Vaccine/Antibody updates

[pacearrow02]

If it’s such a bad problem, an easy fix out be to have kids….wear masks.

Which if you go back and read this was exactly my point.

[pacearrow02]

According to the CDC, kids severely infected by RSV often have pre-existing conditions.
So does that even count?

Those at greatest risk for severe illness from RSV include:
    Premature infants
    Very young infants, especially those 6 months and younger
    Children younger than 2 years old with chronic lung disease or congenital (present from birth) heart disease
    Children with weakened immune systems
    Children who have neuromuscular disorders, including those who have difficulty swallowing or clearing mucus secretions

https://www.cdc.gov/rsv/high-risk/infants-young-children.html

What’s your point?  With c19 it’s the same thing.  80% of mortality from C19 is with just one ore-existing condition, obesity.

[pacearrow02]

I think I found one of the sources, or at least a mouthpiece:

https://www.wftv.com/news/local/data-shows-kids-more-likely-get-rsv-than-covid-19-desantis-says/5N7E3RYHKRHORNS7UUTNJG3VSA/

A virus the CDC tracks annually and something children’s hospitals are constantly talking about when it’s “in season” but ya it’s Death Santis’s  fault.  When your singular view in life is political then all things must be political I suppose.

[forgetful]

Sorry forgetful you’re not following the science on this one.  And I don’t think the argument is what one is worse the. The other.  They’re both bad, one has just led to unbelievable social and educational disruption.

You made an argument that RSV is worse. Claimed it is responsible for 90% of the hospitalizations right now. That is all false. You have provided little to no evidence of either, except pulling surveillance data from the CDC.

I indicated your choice of data for COVID is invalid, as it is surveillance data. If you believe that data, then it would say that only ~196,000 people total have been hospitalized with COVID period. Over 600,000 have died. This should be enough to prove that your data sources don't reflect what you think they do.

Children's hospitals are all full right now, the vast majority of cases are COVID. RSV has made it worse. but is a minor percentage of cases, and largely strictly under the age of 5. These are facts and widely confirmed in media.

That is the science. That is the data.

[pacearrow02]

You made an argument that RSV is worse. Claimed it is responsible for 90% of the hospitalizations right now. That is all false. You have provided little to no evidence of either, except pulling surveillance data from the CDC.

I indicated your choice of data for COVID is invalid, as it is surveillance data. If you believe that data, then it would say that only ~196,000 people total have been hospitalized with COVID period. Over 600,000 have died. This should be enough to prove that your data sources don't reflect what you think they do.

Children's hospitals are all full right now, the vast majority of cases are COVID. RSV has made it worse. but is a minor percentage of cases, and largely strictly under the age of 5. These are facts and widely confirmed in media.

That is the science. That is the data.

That’s not true.  Children’s hospitals are full, they are always full, some are Covid definitely not the majority. 

What are the real numbers then?  I’m not arguing Covid isn’t a threat to kids (especially delta) but there are other very real threats that have been around forever that we just dealt with without implementing draconian measures.

By the end of the school year last year the argument was the masks weren’t to protect the kids because it was acknowledged by all parties that kids were largely unaffected by C19 but the masks, virtual learning was all necessary still to protect the teachers/grandma and grandpa living in the basement.  Well those people can now all get vaccinated so the goal posts have now been completely shifted.

[jesmu84]

That’s not true.  Children’s hospitals are full, they are always full, some are Covid definitely not the majority. 

What are the real numbers then?  I’m not arguing Covid isn’t a threat to kids (especially delta) but there are other very real threats that have been around forever that we just dealt with without implementing draconian measures.

By the end of the school year last year the argument was the masks weren’t to protect the kids because it was acknowledged by all parties that kids were largely unaffected by C19 but the masks, virtual learning was all necessary still to protect the teachers/grandma and grandpa living in the basement.  Well those people can now all get vaccinated so the goal posts have now been completely shifted.

Where did you get the numbers/evidence for your original statement regarding RSV vs covid?

[pbiflyer]

But yeah, not Covid , hospitals are always full

Mississippi hospital puts beds in parking garage to cope with COVID-19 surge
https://www.compuserve.com/news/story/0002/20210814/KBN2FE1Z3_2


Jupiter Medical Center pauses elective surgeries in midst of COVID-19 surge
https://www.wptv.com/coronavirus/jupiter-medical-center-pauses-elective-surgeries-in-midst-of-covid-19-surge

Dallas is running out of pediatric ICU beds, official warns. 'Your child will wait for another child to die.'
https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/coronavirus/dallas-fort-worth-childrens-hospitals-regain-icu-bed-availability/2717992/

[forgetful]

By the end of the school year last year the argument was the masks weren’t to protect the kids because it was acknowledged by all parties that kids were largely unaffected by C19 but the masks, virtual learning was all necessary still to protect the teachers/grandma and grandpa living in the basement.  Well those people can now all get vaccinated so the goal posts have now been completely shifted.

Delta happened. Delta is different. Hospitals and ICU's are full with people who are under 40. Lots of 20's and 30-somethings.

This variant is different, hitting kids very hard too.

[pacearrow02]

You made an argument that RSV is worse. Claimed it is responsible for 90% of the hospitalizations right now. That is all false. You have provided little to no evidence of either, except pulling surveillance data from the CDC.

I indicated your choice of data for COVID is invalid, as it is surveillance data. If you believe that data, then it would say that only ~196,000 people total have been hospitalized with COVID period. Over 600,000 have died. This should be enough to prove that your data sources don't reflect what you think they do.

Children's hospitals are all full right now, the vast majority of cases are COVID. RSV has made it worse. but is a minor percentage of cases, and largely strictly under the age of 5. These are facts and widely confirmed in media.

That is the science. That is the data.

On August 12th, Texas which is obviously going through a sh*t storm right now with their Delta surge had beds occupancy of 88%.  Of that less then 18% were Covid patients.  That’s the same for the vast vast majority of hospitals.  20% of a hospitals bed capacity being dedicated to one virus is nothing to ignore but to suggest it’s all Covid people causing hospitals to be over run is not even close to true.

[pacearrow02]

Delta happened. Delta is different. Hospitals and ICU's are full with people who are under 40. Lots of 20's and 30-somethings.

This variant is different, hitting kids very hard too.

You keep saying that, just don’t think the data backs it up.  I keep looking for it but can’t find anything to support that.  Do you have a link or anything with the actual data? 

[Pakuni]

What’s your point?  With c19 it’s the same thing.  80% of mortality from C19 is with just one ore-existing condition, obesity.

That is the point.
For 16 months people who insist on minimizing COVID - like you - have returned over and over to  preexisting conditions. But now you're all pretending to be alarmed by RSV (not because you all actually care about RSV ... you almost certainly never even heard about RSV until it became a talking point this week), despite the fact most of the serious cases come with preexisting conditions.   

[forgetful]

You keep saying that, just don’t think the data backs it up.  I keep looking for it but can’t find anything to support that.  Do you have a link or anything with the actual data?

You keep making statements with zero data and then ask people to prove you wrong.

Here is the data.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#new-hospital-admissions


During all of COVID, the highest rates of hospitalizations in 30-39 year olds was 2 per 100,000 population. Right now it is 2.52, a 25% increase. For 70+ age bracket, during the peaks it was near 20 per 100,000 population, now it is 7, a decline of of 65%. Similarly, hospitalization rates of 0-17, 18-29, and 40-49 are all at all-time highs increasing by 20-25% from previous peaks.

We also have record high hospitalizations in places like Florida and TX. That proves the demographics have shifted.

Right now every day, around 800 new kids are hospitalized with COVID. That incidence rate would amount to almost 300,000 child hospitalizations a year.

And that is the nationwide numbers. The age demographics and case reports from the south where Delta is hitting hard (e.g. Florida, Texas, etc.) is even worse. All that data is in the link above too.

There's the data that proves I'm following the science and speaking to truth. Where is yours?

[pacearrow02]

That is the point.
For 16 months people who insist on minimizing COVID - like you - have returned over and over to  preexisting conditions. But now you're all pretending to be alarmed by RSV (not because you all actually care about RSV ... you almost certainly never even heard about RSV until it became a talking point this week), despite the fact most of the serious cases come with preexisting conditions.

I’m not alarmed by RSV nor am I alarmed by Covid when it comes to kids.  Both are something that can be dangerous(same for influenza) but for 2 of those 3 we just live with the risk and the show goes on.  With the 3rd it’s if you’re not fully in favor of masks, at home schooling, etc etc then you’re a Covid denier.

[forgetful]

Also, note that I linked to the actual on the ground data.

Not the surveillance testing that you tried to pass off as total numbers.

[pacearrow02]

You keep making statements with zero data and then ask people to prove you wrong.

Here is the data.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#new-hospital-admissions


During all of COVID, the highest rates of hospitalizations in 30-39 year olds was 2 per 100,000 population. Right now it is 2.52, a 25% increase. For 70+ age bracket, during the peaks it was near 20 per 100,000 population, now it is 7, a decline of of 65%. Similarly, hospitalization rates of 0-17, 18-29, and 40-49 are all at all-time highs increasing by 20-25% from previous peaks.

We also have record high hospitalizations in places like Florida and TX. That proves the demographics have shifted.

Right now every day, around 800 new kids are hospitalized with COVID. That incidence rate would amount to almost 300,000 child hospitalizations a year.

And that is the nationwide numbers. The age demographics and case reports from the south where Delta is hitting hard (e.g. Florida, Texas, etc.) is even worse. All that data is in the link above too.

There's the data that proves I'm following the science and speaking to truth. Where is yours?

That data is 0-17.  We’ve been talking 12 and under who currently can’t get vaccinated.   And i included my link to the RSV numbers?

[forgetful]

That data is 0-17.  We’ve been talking 12 and under who currently can’t get vaccinated.   And i included my link to the RSV numbers?

If we use the methodology from your link and apply it to COVID, then there are 300,000 COVID hospitalizations in children every year, 6x the rate of RSV (and I'm being more stringent on COVID than how the RSV method was conducted). This is consistent with the current data I linked.

Next were talking about children period. Only once has under 12 come up, a comment you made to someone else. Please don't try to move goal posts when data is presented to prove you wrong.

Now, you have supplied zero evidence that RSV is to blame for the current crises (your initial claim; regarding my statement re. hospitalizations in the South), your data on RSV indicates that it is 6x less dangerous than COVID in terms of hospitalizations. I'll note, that the study behind your link found ZERO deaths from RSV.

I've now gone far further down a rabbit hole of futility than I intended. I'm going to go wash down some Arbys with an 18-year old Sherry Oak Macallan.

[pacearrow02]

If we use the methodology from your link and apply it to COVID, then there are 300,000 COVID hospitalizations in children every year, 6x the rate of RSV (and I'm being more stringent on COVID than how the RSV method was conducted). This is consistent with the current data I linked.

Next were talking about children period. Only once has under 12 come up, a comment you made to someone else. Please don't try to move goal posts when data is presented to prove you wrong.

Now, you have supplied zero evidence that RSV is to blame for the current crises (your initial claim; regarding my statement re. hospitalizations in the South), your data on RSV indicates that it is 6x less dangerous than COVID in terms of hospitalizations. I'll note, that the study behind your link found ZERO deaths from RSV.

I've now gone far further down a rabbit hole of futility than I intended. I'm going to go wash down some Arbys with an 18-year old Sherry Oak Macallan.

Well laaa deee daaaa, an 18 year old sherry oak Macallan….you don’t say!

I’m going to go finish my 30 rack of Busch Light, how’s that fancy pants? 

By the way check your facts on RSV mortality, know it all.

https://www.medscape.com/answers/300455-107817/what-is-the-mortality-and-morbidity-of-respiratory-syncytial-virus-rsv-pneumonia

[rocky_warrior]

A virus the CDC tracks annually and something children’s hospitals are constantly talking about when it’s “in season” but ya it’s Death Santis’s  fault.  When your singular view in life is political then all things must be political I suppose.

So you and DeSantis having the same talking point (which is false) is just a coincidence?  I think not.   Someone else wondered what news sources you were getting your talking point from, I just happened to find someone trying to say the exact same WRONG thing as you.

And if you think I'm singularly political, you don't know me at all.

[rocket surgeon]

the cdc has been wrong on too many things.  very difficult to trust them as they seem to be a little too close to the political sun-

https://www.newsweek.com/florida-factcheck-covid-cdc-department-health-true-amend-figures-1618765

https://www.newsbreak.com/news/2338743345532/cdc-took-mistaken-data-on-delta-variant-transmissibility-from-a-new-york-times-infographic

i'm sure i could go on and on, but we need access to some alternative sources.  problem is, too many worship the cdc while many alternative sources are immediately beat down, cancelled, etc...we need to think a little more outside the box.  there are some very credible sources out there, but many are hesitant to speak out for fear of losing funding, peer support...

[tower912]

No.  The problem is too many people are using completely bullsh!t sources.


We have a saying on our department.    The idiot who thinks he is a genius will get you killed.

[pacearrow02]

No.  The problem is too many people are using completely bullsh!t sources.

Well whatever source was used that is making a man who got Covid naturally and is also double vaccinated wear a mask 24-7 aside from eating and sleeping should be lit on fire.

[forgetful]

Well laaa deee daaaa, an 18 year old sherry oak Macallan….you don’t say!

I’m going to go finish my 30 rack of Busch Light, how’s that fancy pants? 

By the way check your facts on RSV mortality, know it all.

https://www.medscape.com/answers/300455-107817/what-is-the-mortality-and-morbidity-of-respiratory-syncytial-virus-rsv-pneumonia

My statement on RSV was clearly indicated in reference to the scientific study behind your linked numbers from the CDC. That study found zero deaths.

Your linking to a question/answer session on Medscape is not a valid source of data.

But the point wasn't that there are zero deaths from RSV, I'm well aware that there are. The point is two-fold: 1) Using surveillance data extrapolated to the entire population vs. even cumulative data on COVID is not a valid comparison, if you treat the data the same, you get results that prove you wrong. 2) We don't have accurate data for RSV, why? Because we don't test for it widely. RSV hospitalizations and death get lumped together with influenza-like-illnesses and pneumonia. All the "flu" data people have been reporting forever, includes RSV numbers, because that is how we do it in the US. Notably, even those numbers are projections to the entire population and not hard/fast data on actual cases.

So why do we lump all those together? Because even when combined, they are still an order of magnitude lower in death/hospitalization/disability than COVID alone. It is not worth our effort to isolate the specific illnesses.

Flu, RSV, other coronaviruses and a host of other diseases are all lumped together into influenza-like-illnesses and pneumonia. Combined they are a blip on the radar compared to COVID.

At this point, you are clearly arguing for the sake of arguing, and digging up random online sources that you think support your point of view (but don't).

[forgetful]

Well whatever source was used that is making a man who got Covid naturally and is also double vaccinated wear a mask 24-7 aside from eating and sleeping should be lit on fire.

A colleague in that category just got COVID again, and spread it to several coworkers. They got it from their child, who acquired it at school where no masks are required.

[pacearrow02]

A colleague in that category just got COVID again, and spread it to several coworkers. They got it from their child, who acquired it at school where no masks are required.

You have a friend who was been fully vaccinated and just got Covid a second time naturally?!?!?  A couple to many 18 year olds last night for you forgetful??

[tower912]

I have had PA2 on ignore so long that i had no idea he was referencing me.   Wow.

Statistically speaking, it is unlikely i will get a debilitating case of COVID in the near future.   But i can still get and spread the delta variant quite easily.   And as I am frequently in contact with the sick, elderly, compromised population, it is completely logical to protect them from me as well as myself from them.