Bench Koby

[jesmu84]

I'm tired of it all. I'm tired of the TOs. I'm tired of the useless dribbling. I'm tired of the out-of-control play.

[jesmu84]

Where are the good instincts? Where are the fundamentals? Where is any semblance of on-court IQ?

[JakeBarnes]

I dunno. I just wanted to join the jesmu84 thread starting train.

[NickelDimer]

My favorite is Wojo’s press break. Inbound to the corner then hope you can make a cross court pass. Grade school stuff right there

[Johnny B]

thing is who else ya got

[tower912]

You could literally see the approach and energy change after Jamal's dunk.   They acted like it was over

[JakeBarnes]

thing is who else ya got

Dexter's mixtapes.

[tower912]

And Koby made a nice defensive play late.  Yes, the chronic dragging of feet is frustrating.

[MuggsyB]

You could literally see the approach and energy change after Jamal's dunk.   They acted like it was over

The turns Tower are  95% totally unforced.  That's what's so maddening.  5-7 traveling violations?  WTF?

[dyckesville]

And his useless dribbling, his feeling with <7 sec left he has to shoot, his 1' passes and his attitude

[rocky_warrior]

I guess I'm odd.  Koby is about the only consistently confident player MU has.  He waves people off on presses, is the only one to drive when the shot clock is winding down.  We need more of that.

[Galway Eagle]

I guess I'm odd.  Koby is about the only consistently confident player MU have.  He waves people off on presses, is the only one to drive when the shot clock is winding down.  We need more of that.

Agreed Koby drives me insane but given our current cast I'd take him over anybody on the bench and two of five of our starters

[MuggsyB]

The options we have if we benched him are worse.  I can't remember the last time Torrence made an outside shot and Elliott seemingly can't defend at all.

[rocky_warrior]

I can't remember the last time Torrence made an outside shot

Speaking of - he must MURDER the 3s in practice.  I can't explain why he's launching them all the time otherwise.

[nyg]

Yeah, start Symir.  He will shoot 1 for 8 from field, miss both of his front end free throws and have five turnovers.

Yeah, start Dexter.  He won’t score, will travel 7 times but will play good defense.

Yeah, start Elliott.  He subs for Cain, but is really, really deep in the doghouse now.  He made one bad turnover in first half and sat. Played one minute in first half and no time in second half. 

Live or die with Koby.  But Wojo has problem for next year, he needs to get some quality transfers. 

[Johnny B]

is 12% from 3 bad? last time he hit one was a last second prayer against uconn i think

[rocky_warrior]

Live or die with Koby.  But Wojo has problem for next year, he needs to get some quality transfers.

Yeah, agreed.  I'm certainly not trying to claim Koby hasn't been making lots of mistakes.  But he's about our most consistent guard in terms of scoring, and certainly defense.  His handle is about as good as anyone else (right now) too. 

Koby is essentially what I'd hoped Dex would be this year.  I guess I have to to now hope Dex is what Koby is this year.

[PGsHeroes32]

Agreed Koby drives me insane but given our current cast I'd take him over anybody on the bench and two of five of our starters

Our bench with a healthy Justin?!?!?!

[franklinjerry]

Piling on but yes, who replaces Koby when he is benched? Sy can't dribble, penetrate, distribute or shoot and is in a close debate with Greg for worst defensive player on the team. Dex? Jose?

Koby is frustrating but has improved his penetration and shooting. He also defends the opponents top scoring wing. Without DJ this year we'd be hard pressed to advance the ball to front court but Koby is the third or fourth best player on a five or six player team.

Here's hoping Stevie can contribute next season. I'd expect Cam to sit on the end of the bench unless he's much better than advertised. We need one from the transfer portal to compete and if DJ leaves we need another one of the top PG's in the portal to simply stay the course.

[nyg]

Yeah, agreed.  I'm certainly not trying to claim Koby hasn't been making lots of mistakes.  But he's about our most consistent guard in terms of scoring, and certainly defense.  His handle is about as good as anyone else (right now) too. 

Koby is essentially what I'd hoped Dex would be this year.  I guess I have to to now hope Dex is what Koby is this year.

Dex has scored eight points the entire year with seven turnovers.  Almost a match.  He is basically a sophomore.  He has not made one three pointer.  You really do not want me to tell you what Symir has done in his second year. 

Dickie brought up the fact Koby could actually return next year.  He is not NBA, heck probably not even Euro/Asian league capable.  Not going to happen though.

[rocky_warrior]

Dex has scored eight points the entire year with seven turnovers.  Almost a match.

Just said I'm hoping!  A man can dream   

[tower912]

Koby has to play.   There aren't options.

[MU82]

Sorry jes, but this is an absolutely ridiculous thread.

And that's saying something for Scoop.

As frustrating as he can be sometimes, Koby plays hard, plays defense, plays with passion, usually makes FTs. He had the winning bucket in our previous win with a great, aggressive drive.

And, as a number of our fellow Scoopers say, there simply isn't a better option.

[shoothoops]

The options we have if we benched him are worse.  I can't remember the last time Torrence made an outside shot and Elliott seemingly can't defend at all.

Greg has never been the same physically since his surgeries. That should be obvious to the most casual observer. Greg's role is best shooter on the team, 3's, FT's, anywhere, and to come off of the bench and provide just that.

He is also the most basketball smart player on the team. His problem is physically he can only move like he is running through sand, slow. He'd be one of MU's best players without the injuries and surgeries. But he is permanently, physically limited in his movement.

[shoothoops]

I guess I'm odd.  Koby is about the only consistently confident player MU has.  He waves people off on presses, is the only one to drive when the shot clock is winding down.  We need more of that.

7 turnovers is unacceptable any time. With that said, Koby is the best 2/3 player on the team. In the thread hypothetical of which player would you like back next year, Koby was an easy choice. This team is not strong at the 2/3 and that only looks to be worse next year.

[jesmu84]

Yup. Koby is likely the best of the lot we have.

But I don't care. Get Dex/Sy experience. Move on. We aren't making the tourney anyway.

[rocket surgeon]

Sorry jes, but this is an absolutely ridiculous thread.

And that's saying something for Scoop.

As frustrating as he can be sometimes, Koby plays hard, plays defense, plays with passion, usually makes FTs. He had the winning bucket in our previous win with a great, aggressive drive.

And, as a number of our fellow Scoopers say, there simply isn't a better option.

  whoa whoa, someone gotta come to my good friend across the aisle's rescue here-what's wrong with the thread?  talking MU basketball, right?  don't let em hurt your feelings jes.  some good points here...even 82's

[WhiteTrash]

Live or die with Koby.  But Wojo has problem for next year, he needs to get some quality transfers.

Not being a smarta$$, but I don't think this will be Wojo's problem next year.

[Viper]

We’re on the bridge. Panzer tank approaching. We have one bullet in a six shooter. Damn.

[rocket surgeon]

Not being a smarta$$, but I don't think this will be Wojo's problem next year.

yeah, koby a senior, eyna?

[rocky_warrior]

We’re on the bridge. Panzer tank approaching. We have one bullet in a six shooter. Damn.

You should probably run away then. 

[Jockey]

We need a coach. Koby is not the problem.

A real coach would not allow him to dribble for 15-18 seconds. Instead, he would have him run off screens to get open looks.

[tower912]

Somewhere along the way, Wojo decided to play slow this year.   Instead of running lots of motion, he has lots of dribbling.

[MU82]

Yup. Koby is likely the best of the lot we have.

But I don't care. Get Dex/Sy experience. Move on. We aren't making the tourney anyway.

You don't throw a senior who has been loyal to the program for 3 years under the bus when he's by far the best option. You can get Dex/Sy experience, too. It's not mutually exclusive ... as today's game showed.

Oh, and with 7 games to go, I'm pretty sure the coaching staff and players aren't thinking the season's already over. That's not how athletes/coaches think.

A little surprised about this take from you.

[MUHoopsFan2]

Somewhere along the way, Wojo decided to play slow this year.   Instead of running lots of motion, he has lots of dribbling.

No he doesn't.....what are you watching? There is more up-tempo and motion and ball swings and slashing then they have ever had in awhile.

I just don't see a lot of the issues you all see in here and I been watching MU basketball for a very long time.

Every post is a sly knock or rip on player of coach, and that is fine it is your opinion. Why in the world are you benching Koby who is a senior and leader of this team at this stage???

[willie warrior]

Dexter's mixtapes.

Don't forget Wojo-Dukiets legendary PowerPoint

[forgetful]

Our bench has combined for 5 points in the last two games combined. We don't really have options.

Hard to win games with zero bench contribution.

[SaveOD238]

Our bench has combined for 5 points in the last two games combined. We don't really have options.

Hard to win games with zero bench contribution.

This is proof that we just do not have a strong roster this year.  And yeah, I know, JLew was out, but still...is 6 players a quality roster?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

No he doesn't.....what are you watching? There is more up-tempo and motion and ball swings and slashing then they have ever had in awhile.

I just don't see a lot of the issues you all see in here and I been watching MU basketball for a very long time.

Then you don't know what you are watching.  Two years ago, they finished the season ranked 102nd in pace.  Last year 71st.

This year they are 258th. Wojo is definitely slowing it down.

And you don't see the turnover problem?  They are 259th in turnover percentage.  18% of their possessions end in a turnover.  That is absolutely terrible.  And its been an ongoing issue under Wojo.    They haven't been top 100 in that category since he got here, but this year has been especially bad.

That was almost the reason we lost yesterday.  We had an EFG of .667.  Which is insane for this team.  But we turned the ball over on 26.9% of our possessions!

[StillAWarrior]

I was really surprised by this thread. I like Koby and appreciate what he has given to this program for the last couple years. He's not the greatest PG that Marquette has had -- which is a pretty high bar -- but he's always struck me as a hard worker and a good kid. I think that sometimes this year he tries to do so much...but with as lethargic as this team has been at times, I don't blamed him. Also, like a lot of others have said, I'm not sure who is going to take those minutes if Koby gets benched.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

I guess I'm odd.  Koby is about the only consistently confident player MU has.  He waves people off on presses, is the only one to drive when the shot clock is winding down.  We need more of that.

Right.  Koby started the season really well and has definitely cooled off.  But he's the best guard marquette has other than DJ.  Benching him does no one any good.

Greg is basically a spot up shooter. 

Symir looks like he would be an average player on a low major team.  Very disappointing.

Dexter - while I think will eventually be a solid contributor - clearly isn't ready.

Not sure who else is supposed to play. 

[BM1090]

Right.  Koby started the season really well and has definitely cooled off.  But he's the best guard marquette has other than DJ.  Benching him does no one any good.

Greg is basically a spot up shooter. 

Symir looks like he would be an average player on a low major team.  Very disappointing.

Dexter - while I think will eventually be a solid contributor - clearly isn't ready.

Not sure who else is supposed to play.

Symir looks decent if he could make an open shot. He is handling the ball better, the ball moves well with him in the game, our pace increases, and his defense has improved.

It's odd because all of his threes are straight on line but seem to be about an inch short or an inch long.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Symir looks decent if he could make an open shot. He is handling the ball better, the ball moves well with him in the game, our pace increases, and his defense has improved.

It's odd because all of his threes are straight on line but seem to be about an inch short or an inch long.

Ehh. I think Symir looks pretty terrible.  Sure he can handle the ball OK - and he may be the best "distributor" we have, but that isn't saying much.  Pretty much all our guards are 2G that look to shoot.  Defense is fine.  But the offensive is just awful.  The shot is terrible.  The form is terrible.  He's what - like 4 for 40 from three this year?  Dude is major liability IMO. Marquette needs an actual PG really really bad.  Assuming DJ returns next season (which is a MAJOR if IMO), he needs someone that can create shots for him.  No one can do that on this roster.   

[connie]

Then you don't know what you are watching.  Two years ago, they finished the season ranked 102nd in pace.  Last year 71st.

This year they are 258th. Wojo is definitely slowing it down.

And you don't see the turnover problem?  They are 259th in turnover percentage.  18% of their possessions end in a turnover.  That is absolutely terrible.  And its been an ongoing issue under Wojo.    They haven't been top 100 in that category since he got here, but this year has been especially bad.

That was almost the reason we lost yesterday.  We had an EFG of .667.  Which is insane for this team. But we turned the ball over on 26.9% of our possessions!

Holy Cr@P!  That is a startling and damning number.  I knew the to ratio was bad, but that is stunning, even for a jaded pessimist like me.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Symir looks decent if he could make an open shot.

I could be world class sprinter if I could only run faster.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Koby giveth and Koby taketh away. Yesterday Koby did a lot of both.

That pass to John for the dunk in the first half was one of the best passes I've seen out of one of our guys this season. He followed it up with a dragged pivot foot travelling like a possession or two later.

His defense is usually very solid and I think we often overlook that its his defense that earns him as much time as he gets. Though yesterday he dropped his hands when Bolden had the ball at the top of the key and Bolden drilled a three in his face.

I appreciate Koby, he competes, he puts it all on the court, but damn are the travelling calls maddening.

[tower912]

Symir' s shot is flat and he isn't following through like he expects to make it.   Pulling the string, short arming, however you refer to it.

[MU82]

They are 259th in turnover percentage.  18% of their possessions end in a turnover.  That is absolutely terrible.  And its been an ongoing issue under Wojo.    They haven't been top 100 in that category since he got here, but this year has been especially bad.

That was almost the reason we lost yesterday.  We had an EFG of .667.  Which is insane for this team.  But we turned the ball over on 26.9% of our possessions!

At times, it's like watching my middle-school team. Coaching my kids, I like pretty much ANY shot, because if we take a shot, it means we didn't turn the ball over. I almost feel the same way watching Marquette. My wife occasionally will say, "That was a bad shot ... why did he take it?" And I'll say, "Hey, at least it wasn't a turnover."

[TFlegend]

The amount of time Koby has the ball in his hands is directly proportional to the likelihood of a dumb play.  The way he carries himself on the court is grating.  The constant flailing and every turnover is a glare at a teammate or the ref. 

But, he can't be benched.  There isn't a better option. 

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Good or bad Koby leaves it all on the court and that's what I like about him.
He's competing

[muwarrior97]

7 turnovers is unacceptable any time. With that said, Koby is the best 2/3 player on the team. In the thread hypothetical of which player would you like back next year, Koby was an easy choice. This team is not strong at the 2/3 and that only looks to be worse next year.

+1

He had EIGHT (that seems like a lot)

[NCMUFan]

thing is who else ya got

Exactly.

[StillAWarrior]

The amount of time Koby has the ball in his hands is directly proportional to the likelihood of a dumb play.

I am very interested in players who the amount of time they have the ball in their hands is inversely proportional to the likelihood of a dumb play. Hopefully we can recruit some of those, but I'd imagine they're hard to find.

[MU82]

+1

He had EIGHT (that seems like a lot)

Going into the game, Koby had 37 turnovers in 17 games. That's 2.18 per game.

It's still too many. But let's not act as if 8 is his norm.

He makes 1-2 poor passes a game. He travels sometimes. He also often has the ball in his hands as the shot clock is winding down - either because he has dribbled too much or somebody else has or a play has blown up.

Koby and DJ are the only two Marquette players capable of getting a shot off when the clock is near zero.

Benching Koby would be both ridiculous, mean and counterproductive.

[GooooMarquette]

Going into the game, Koby had 37 turnovers in 17 games. That's 2.18 per game.

It's still too many. But let's not act as if 8 is his norm.

He makes 1-2 poor passes a game. He travels sometimes. He also often has the ball in his hands as the shot clock is winding down - either because he has dribbled too much or somebody else has or a play has blown up.

Koby and DJ are the only two Marquette players capable of getting a shot off when the clock is near zero.

Benching Koby would be both ridiculous, mean and counterproductive.

Yep. His play was frustrating as hell yesterday, but benching him would just make us worse.