Bench is awful

[esotericmindguy]

I know its well documented on this board, but its the reason this team will fail in the tourney.  They couldn't even hold a lead vs. St. Johns at home, its pathetic.  Its like clock work, every time Buzz goes to the bench the opponent goes on a run.  Butler is the only decent option, Hazel would be my second choice....the rest are largely worthless.  Acker seems to have lost all confidence, Otule looks lost, Cubillan is done and Fulce hasn't had enough time.  With the shedule down the end plus the big east tourney I could easily see MU losing in the second round with only a day of rest.  I feel bad for the big 4, they have the talent to go deep in the tourney.

Honestly, how successful can a team be that goes 6 deep?

[mviale]

Does our bench suck?

[ErickJD08]

I know its well documented on this board, but its the reason this team will fail in the tourney.  They couldn't even hold a lead vs. St. Johns at home, its pathetic.  Its like clock work, every time Buzz goes to the bench the opponent goes on a run.  Butler is the only decent option, Hazel would be my second choice....the rest are largely worthless.  Acker seems to have lost all confidence, Otule looks lost, Cubillan is done and Fulce hasn't had enough time.  With the shedule down the end plus the big east tourney I could easily see MU losing in the second round with only a day of rest.  I feel bad for the big 4, they have the talent to go deep in the tourney.

Honestly, how successful can a team be that goes 6 deep?

Back in the day... UNC went pretty far with only 5/6.  Carter, Jamison, Cota, Williams, and someone else.  They literally only played 6 players.

[Big Daddy Z]

please tell me who in the Big East has a deep bench? Be thankful for this year as next yr is going to be a real challange.

[Big Papi]

I was wondering what we were going to complain about today.  MU wins, check.  MU wins by double digits, check.  MU plays Otule, check.  MU plays Fulce, check.  Free throw shooting, not bad.

I really thought it was going to be that McNeal and DJ played too many minutes and their legs and arms would fall off.   

[Daniel]

Cubie played very solid defense; Hazel did ok; Fulce got in and hit two free throws IN A ROW, Otule was overwhelemd first time in, but he wa in, and was better second time (PT helps);Butler was terrific; Acker played good D; Forzena got a rebound, and drew a foul. So.... this was the best bench performance (10 points) in a while.

And we won, as mentioned above, by double digits. Sloppy?  yep.  Poor passing?  At time, looked really bad.  We need to get better.  But we won.

[Tommy Brice for Coach]

Cubie played very solid defense; Hazel did ok; Fulce got in and hit two free throws IN A ROW, Otule was overwhelemd first time in, but he wa in, and was better second time (PT helps);Butler was terrific; Acker played good D; Forzena got a rebound, and drew a foul. So.... this was the best bench performance (10 points) in a while.

And we won, as mentioned above, by double digits. Sloppy?  yep.  Poor passing?  At time, looked really bad.  We need to get better.  But we won.

But Frozena missed all of his free throws! God we are so awful! 

[Daniel]

But Frozena missed all of his free throws! God we are so awful! 

Yeah he did - I was sitting on the edge of my seat up in 420 saying, "Come on sink it!"  He looked pretty nervous ont he line

[bilsu]

Bench is terrible, because they get so little playing time. It is hard to play good when you know if you screw up you will be back on the bench for another 3-4 games.

[romey]

Bilsu I think you hit the nail on the head.  I think the extremely limited minutes most of the bench players get causes them to be tentative.  They seem to be afraid that the y will get yanked for the slightest mistake.  And it seems that has been the case.  I know, they're big boys, and that shouldn't be a problem at the major college level, but it's human nature to press when you're in the spotlight.  And those lights only get brighter as the season winds down and the conference and NCAA tournaments begin.  At this point in the season, it looks like "our bed is made" - we'll be 6 or 7 deep from here on out. Not that that's bad necessarily, but it would be nice to have another contributor or two wouldn't it?  I think the frustration on this board (for many) is that we don't seem to be trying to develop those 7th and 8th (and 9th?) players.  But, then again, we're Monday morning quarterbacks who don't have the benefit of seeing the practices and knowing the players.

[Norm]

I think Buzz should have played the bench more earlier in the season to develop them, but it is difficult to play most of them beside Butler and Acker in Big East games. The drop off in talent on the bench is pretty significant from the Big Four.

[MR.HAYWARD]

boy is this argument tired and boring.   First the bench sucks but then if only Buzz would have played them more they would actaully be good. But hen Buzz takes them out when they make mistakes.

What mindless banter, do you guys realize these guys practice about 14 hours a week.  Buzz knows full well their strengths and ability to contribute in a game. Our bench is a collection of 1 and 2 star rated players coming out of HS.  Now we start 4 4star players and they are the core of our team.  I am not saying rankings coming out of HS are the be all and end all, but we have 3-4 players that should never have been signed to a BE school.  Find fault with Buzz for not developing them or playing them all you want, but I am not sure he possesses the magic to make silk out of a sow's ear.

I will also take ecxeption to the poster that said Cubillan was terrible.  he actually played extremely well and his defense led to two of the turnovers that sparked our 8-0 run that ended the first half.   

[Big Papi]

LOL.  The bench is terrible because Fulce and Otule missed all of the non-conference season when they could have worked through their mistakes.  No time for that now when every game is critical.  The bench is terrible because Cube had surgery on both of his shoulders and can't play defense.  No reason to play him 5 minutes here and there in the hopes he finds it when he hasn't had it all season.  The bench is terrible because Acker can't hit a shot to save his life.  He has played in just about every game and can't make a basket.  He gets abused on the defensive end and there is a severe drop off from DJ to Acker.  The bench is what it is this year.  This problem will get rectified starting next year when he will have Big East talent that goes 10 deep instead of 6.

[Wareagle]

Here's the thing, our bench's job is primarily to play d, spell the starters, and allow the other starters still in the game to create on offense.  If any combination of the 3 amigos + Lazar are still in the game, there is almost no reason for Otule, Acker, Hazel, or Cube to shoot unless it is a layup. 

We have an unbalanced roster, and considering how good our starters are, that's a good thing.  I don't want to see "balanced" scoring if it comes at the expense of maximizing our total points scored, and the offense would take a hit if the bench players on this team shoot more often than they do now. 

There is a minuscule margin of error in the Big East and development and balance have to take a backseat to winning. 

[ErickJD08]

This problem will get rectified starting next year when he will have Big East talent that goes 10 deep instead of 6.

Your joking right???  I will be satisfied to make the NIT next year.  Anyone expecting anything more is setting themselves up for disappointment.

[AZWarrior]

Yeah he did - I was sitting on the edge of my seat up in 420 saying, "Come on sink it!"  He looked pretty nervous ont he line

Truth is, Frozena has been a major, major disappointment.

[nyg]

Rectified next year with BE talent?  Would that be Hazel, Otule, and McMorrow at Center?  Four freshman in JC, E. Williams, Maymon and Roseboro?  Two current  under six feet guards who play less than 5 minutes a game now in Acker and Cubllian?  Thank goodness Hayward and Butler are back.  Oh, forgot Fulce, right, hes been hurt all year..., but I do have hope in Buycks......hopefully.

Enjoy these last games of 2009.  

[Big Papi]

Your joking right???  I will be satisfied to make the NIT next year.  Anyone expecting anything more is setting themselves up for disappointment.

Your joking right??? Where did I say we were replacing McNeal, Matthews and DJ with equal talent?  

Maymon, Byucks, E. Williams, Cadugan and Roseboro are Big East talents that will make this team deeper than this years squad.  And all 5 have the ability to be real good and productive at some point in time over the next 4 years.  We will have growing pains similar to Georgetowns this year but don't sell next year's team so short.  Byucks and Maymon are the real deals and E. Williams has the potential to be the best of them all in a couple of years.  

[Big Papi]

Rectified next year with BE talent?  Would that be Hazel, Otule, and McMorrow at Center?  Four freshman in JC, E. Williams, Maymon and Roseboro?  Two current  under six feet guards who play less than 5 minutes a game now in Acker and Cubllian?  Thank goodness Hayward and Butler are back.  Oh, forgot Fulce, right, hes been hurt all year..., but I do have hope in Buycks......hopefully.

Enjoy these last games of 2009.  

Yes rectified would be correct.  Next year's club will be deeper than this years.  I didn't say we would be as good or better than this year's club.  We lose to much from the Big 3 but our bench will be deep and we will be playing 10 players deep unlike this year. 

Also, someone is not coming back between Cube and Hazel as Buzz is still actively recruiting for next year. 

Maymon, JC, Buycks, Williams and Roseboro have Big East talent which is something you can't say about Cube, Hazel and Burke.  Fulce and Otule will hopefully be healthy next year so they will be serviceable unlike this year.  We won't have a transfer sitting out in McMorrow and we have Hayward and Butler back.  We will go 10 deep next year. 

[nyg]

I can only hope for growing pains like Georgetown this year.  They have the number one recruit in the country (Monroe), along with three other McDonalds All Americans (Freeman, Wright and Clark) and Summers, who will go in first round of NBA draft.  MU does not have that talent.  Still don't understand Georgetown this year. 

You are right with the number of players (10) that Buzz can play, but will he? And how effective?  Should be interesting.   

[Tugg Speedman]

This thread should be named "Why Doesn't Buzz Play Our Crappy Players More?"

Regarding next year ... Rutgers, Seton Hall and Depaul all have a "deep bench" now.  How is that working out this year?

I fully expect next February, when we are 3 and 9 in the BE for threads to compliment Buzz for playing 8 to 10 deep every game.

Regarding teams going deep in the tourney with a thin bench .... See Memphis last year.

[nyg]

Nice

[ErickJD08]

Yes rectified would be correct.  Next year's club will be deeper than this years.  I didn't say we would be as good or better than this year's club.  We lose to much from the Big 3 but our bench will be deep and we will be playing 10 players deep unlike this year. 

Also, someone is not coming back between Cube and Hazel as Buzz is still actively recruiting for next year. 

Maymon, JC, Buycks, Williams and Roseboro have Big East talent which is something you can't say about Cube, Hazel and Burke.  Fulce and Otule will hopefully be healthy next year so they will be serviceable unlike this year.  We won't have a transfer sitting out in McMorrow and we have Hayward and Butler back.  We will go 10 deep next year. 

WOW... what a statement...  You are kinda delusional.  One proven scorer in Hayward and about 3 proven BE bench players (Hazel, Cubes, Acker).  By thinking we will be more deep next season, you are assuming they every single player (Bulter, Otule, and Fulce)will get better next season.  Also, every single recruit is as good or better than advertised and they will not play like freshmen. 

Now, if you think "Deep" means we have a ton of interchangeable parts.  Yes, we will be deep because all the players will be pretty interchangeable, meaning they will be of similar caliber.  If you think "Deep" is having good players surrounded by players who can be productive when called upon (my definition), no way in hell we are deeper.  We will not have a deep team til 2011 at the earliest(2009 class junior year).

[spartan3186]

WOW... what a statement...  You are kinda delusional.  One proven scorer in Hayward and about 3 proven BE bench players (Hazel, Cubes, Acker).  By thinking we will be more deep next season, you are assuming they every single player (Bulter, Otule, and Fulce)will get better next season.  Also, every single recruit is as good or better than advertised and they will not play like freshmen. 

Now, if you think "Deep" means we have a ton of interchangeable parts.  Yes, we will be deep because all the players will be pretty interchangeable, meaning they will be of similar caliber.  If you think "Deep" is having good players surrounded by players who can be productive when called upon (my definition), no way in hell we are deeper.  We will not have a deep team til 2011 at the earliest(2009 class junior year).

How in the world are those three more proven than Butler??

[Lennys Tap]

Villanova's bench contributed 30 points in their game against MU. If our second team played the entire 40  minutes they'd be hard pressed to put up 30.

We'll be inexperieced next year and will likely suffer for it. Our starting 5 will be worse but our second unit will be better.