Kuchar

[jesmu84]

Well considering who he claims is his congressmen, who is from Iowa, from three weeks ago.... I'm going to go with you have been had by a fake tweet.

https://twitter.com/squashems/status/1089037975080628224

I believe it.

Kuch's character revealed

[Bocephys]

He threw him an extra $15K

When he (not legally, but morally) owed him an extra $125,000 and the guy only wanted another $45,000. 

If you round up to the nearest dollar on a restaurant bill, should the server be happy because it's more than you technically owed them?

[🏀]

He threw him an extra $15K


“I am not looking to disparage Matt or give him a bad name. Fair is fair, and I feel like I was taken advantage of by placing my trust in Matt.” - Ortiz

Which is it?  Fair is fair?  Or taken advantage of?  This guy says two things in one sentence.  Is fair based on the deal he agreed to, or not?

His agent offered an extra $15k, and Kuchar didn't sound like he was on the same page with that. The agent offered it after this story surfaced a month ago and El Tucan called up.

[Pakuni]

Ah, so it's a racist thing.....deals only matter with Americans dealing with Americans?

Straw man alert.

[Osiris]

I think the caddie’s lack of bargaining power is born mostly from the fact that he hit zero fairways, had zero GIR and didn’t even sniff a birdie putt. 

Most of the older guys on tour subscribe to Jack Nicklaus’ rule of the 3 Up’s for caddies:  show up, keep up and shut up.  They don’t view it as a collaborative effort.  The caddie hands them their club and carries their bag. 

Not how it is now for most players.  Caddies are part of the decision making process, they help with alignment (well no more if that starting this year) read putts and even play sports psychologist when needed.  When acting in that capacity, they’ve earned every penny of their 10%. 

[Pakuni]

No, once again someone has made a racial issue out of something that isn't....once again....like so many other times.

The only one injecting race is you as a lame effort to shift the narrative.
And, fyi, "Mexican" is no more a race than American is a race, and in this instance in particular the term was used to describe the caddy's geographical circumstance, i.e. Kuchar is a cheapskate who wanted to get away with paying his Mexican caddy less than his American caddy.

[WarriorDad]

Write a check be done with it. PR 101.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

He threw him an extra $15K

After the initial $1k increase from $4k.

[forgetful]

Why?  #dealsnomatta?  What happened to an honest deal, two sides agreeing?  What's more, Kuchar went WAY above the deal.

The deal was payment for Caddying services. There is an industry standard of 10% of a win going to the caddie. Those are handshake deals, not part of the official deal for simply Caddying.

So yeah, he is a jackA$$. Both parties were fully aware of the industry standard. Kuchar decided to ignore it.

[tower912]

He should have fun at the WGC event coming up.

[Cheeks]

The only one injecting race is you as a lame effort to shift the narrative.
And, fyi, "Mexican" is no more a race than American is a race, and in this instance in particular the term was used to describe the caddy's geographical circumstance, i.e. Kuchar is a cheapskate who wanted to get away with paying his Mexican caddy less than his American caddy.

I will fix it for you.

He had a deal, wanted to pay a part time, local caddy less than a permanent caddy.  Ethnicity, race, creed, gender, nationality had nothing to do with it but I am not surprised that’s where you went.  Of course you know what is in Kichar’s heart and mind, I mean how couldn’t you and the fact he was Mexican is what drove all the thinking and actions.  Wow. 

He’s not his permanent caddy, they had a deal....deals apparently don’t matter any longer.  Let me guess, if Kuchar finished dead last and the caddy gave wrong advice, Kuchar cutting his pay would have perfectly acceptable...right?  Or a dead is a deal in that regard, right?

[jesmu84]

“For a guy who makes $200 a day, a $5,000 week is a really big week,” [Kuchar] said.

[wadesworld]

Scoop gets hard to read when Chicos gets into his "rich white males are so persecuted, everything is so scrutinized in today's social media world" moods.

[Pakuni]

I will fix it for you.

He had a deal, wanted to pay a part time, local caddy less than a permanent caddy.  Ethnicity, race, creed, gender, nationality had nothing to do with it but I am not surprised that’s where you went.  Of course you know what is in Kichar’s heart and mind, I mean how couldn’t you and the fact he was Mexican is what drove all the thinking and actions.  Wow. 

He’s not his permanent caddy, they had a deal....deals apparently don’t matter any longer.  Let me guess, if Kuchar finished dead last and the caddy gave wrong advice, Kuchar cutting his pay would have perfectly acceptable...right?  Or a dead is a deal in that regard, right?

1. The problem is that the deal was unfair from the start and took advantage of the caddy's circumstances rather than pay his the well-established value of his services.
2. You can always tell when Chico's is frothing at the mouth by when he starts ranting against arguments that exist only in his mind.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

I imagine the argument goes along the lines of ...
"Why is this guy not paying his Mexican caddy what would be the standard wage for an American caddy at a tournament played in the states? Why does this guy who's easily made more than $50 million as a professional golfer think he's being generous by paying what amounts to a .03 percent tip?"

You were the one that first brought up the caddy's ethnicity.   Not sure how that gives you the high horse to dog the bondsman about this issue.

FWIW,  I knew nothing about this story before reading it here and had no idea the caddy was Mexican until you posted the above fake argument.

[Pakuni]

You were the one that first brought up the caddy's ethnicity.   Not sure how that gives you the high horse to dog the bondsman about this issue.

FWIW,  I knew nothing about this story before reading it here and had no idea the caddy was Mexican until you posted the above fake argument.

You had no clue that a local caddy in Mexico City named David Ortiz might be Mexican?
I mean, yeah, how could you have possibly known?

[ZiggysFryBoy]

You had no clue that a local caddy in Mexico City named David Ortiz might be Mexican?
I mean, yeah, how could you have possibly known?

I knew nothing of the story except for what was posted here.  OP didnt link to an article.  I think the Tour is in CA or AZ right now, but dont really know.  Didnt know if this is old new news or new new news.

[StillAWarrior]

You had no clue that a local caddy in Mexico City named David Ortiz might be Mexican?
I mean, yeah, how could you have possibly known?

For the record, I had no clue either. I never heard of this story before an hour ago when I opened this thread.

[Pakuni]

For the record, I had no clue either. I never heard of this story before an hour ago when I opened this thread.

OK, but if you took the time to read the story (I'll link it below), you'd see the fact that the caddy is Mexican is relevant.
To be clear, though, I'm not suggesting Kuchar is racist or acted out of racism. I do believe Kuchar took advantage of the guy. His comment about $5,000 being a lot of money for the guy seems to validate this.

https://www.golf.com/news/2019/02/12/they-can-keep-their-money-kuchars-fill-in-caddie-breaks-silence-over-pay-dispute/

[Bocephys]

Agreed race isn’t relevant here. Notice that Hoopaloop only replies to the comments that include the caddy’s race so he can build up his strawman.

Also, Kuchar didn’t even want to give the guy $15,000. That was his agency trying to save face for their penny pinching client.

[jesmu84]

Agreed race isn’t relevant here. Notice that Hoopaloop only replies to the comments that include the caddy’s race so he can build up his strawman.

Also, Kuchar didn’t even want to give the guy $15,000. That was his agency trying to save face for their penny pinching client.

+1

[StillAWarrior]

Since I know you have all been waiting eagerly for me to weigh in on this...

First, yeah...it kind of feels like Kuchar was treating this as an opportunity for a bargain-priced caddy.  While I don't interpret it as racist, as soon as I heard that the tournament was in Mexico City I understood how some might feel that the caddy's nationality is relevant to the story.  It's kind of like a person who goes to Mexico and figures he can get a great deal at one of the markets because that's just what you expect in Mexico.  That's how this seems to me.  Racist?  No, probably not.  Taking advantage?  Kind of feels that way to me.

Second, even this caddy acknowledges that he didn't expect the "standard" 10% since he was just on the bag for a week.  So, there's no reason to hammer Kucher for not paying standard.  He said he didn't expect 10%, but thought his help was worth $50k.  Honestly, it's kind of an arbitrary number.  So it's kind of hard to know with certainty what would have been "fair."  I'd be interested to know what other players paid their local one-off caddies at this tournament and others.  For the record, I have no doubt that most (quite possibly all) of them paid better than Kuchar.  I think he was being cheap.  And foolish.  It really is a bad look for him.

Third, I'm not entirely convinced of the whole, "a deals a deal" thing.  Again, I'll admit that I don't have a lot of knowledge of how these things work, but the article Pakuni linked made it sound like there are two things here:  the amount he was paid to caddy for the week, and a bonus.  It sounds like the agreed amount was $5000 (or, I vaguely recall someone saying something about it actually being $4000).  The question seems to be the bonus.  That's not part of the "deal."  From what I read, it sounds like Kuchar did meet his end of the deal -- he paid the guy what he agreed to pay him.  But it also sounds like he totally screwed the guy on his " bonus" -- at least as compared to what is customary.  Is he technically entitled to it?  No.  Assuming it's pretty customary, do I blame him for being pissed that he didn't get it?  Not at all.  Even though I think the twitter linked above was obviously fake, I think that a tipped employee is a fairly comparable situation.  As I said before, I don't know if the same customs apply to local one-week caddies that apply to regulars.  But, it sounds to me like Kuchar paid no bonus (or maybe $1000).  I gather from the reports that  this is not consistent with custom, but I honestly don't know for sure.  But it sure as hell seems cheap and ungracious.

Fourth, Ortiz should grab that $15k.

[🏀]

The tournament was outside Playa del Carmen.

[Cheeks]

Scoop gets hard to read when Chicos gets into his "rich white males are so persecuted, everything is so scrutinized in today's social media world" moods.

Your inner Sultan was never a good look

[Cheeks]

You had no clue that a local caddy in Mexico City named David Ortiz might be Mexican?
I mean, yeah, how could you have possibly known?

I thought he lived in Boston