MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: 1SE on March 22, 2019, 10:33:37 AM
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Seriously, and give the "rebuild" thing a rest. Sure, Buzz left a dumpster fire. But it's not like Wojo walked into a program that had never had a winning record and played their ball in a low-major conference, in a gym with a leaky roof and a broken screen door and a 2nd-hand yellow school bus that took them to their games.
He walked into a program that been to the post-season in 12 of the previous 13 years, 10 of those those being NCAA appearances that included 2 SS, 1 EE and 1 FF. ]
He walked into a program in the top-10 of MBB spending in the NCAA.
He walked into a program with a world-class practice facility.
He walked into a program with a storied history.
If we had been in the wilderness of college basketball, if we were DePaul, then this type of "rebuild" would be satisfactory.
but WE ARE MARQUETTE. That meant something when I was a student.
It should have taken Wojo a season to turn things around. Maybe we were on track in year 3, but to be no better today than we were then has nothing to do with Wojo "rebuilding" from Buzz's sh*tstorm. It's completely on the team and program that Wojo has put together.
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It should have taken Wojo a season to turn things around. Maybe we were on track in year 3, but to be no better today than we were then has nothing to do with Wojo "rebuilding" from Buzz's sh*tstorm. It's completely on the team and program that Wojo has put together.
Disagree about one season, we got lucky with Henry making it look like the rebuild should've taken one season. Year three was about right, frustrating but about right. Last season I feel we were better suited for March than this year shame we choked, truly one win probs gets us there.
Currently anything left of the rebuild is on Wojo 100%, it has to do with Wojo losing Henry Haanif and Tracy. Our senior leadership which would've been that class was RS JR Anim and nailed to the bench Heldt. It's why I am in the camp of Wojo deserves to see off Markus, Sam and Anim next year.
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And I've had enough of people discounting this year because of the previous 4. Get over it.
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Rebuild is over. Could it have gone quicker? Who knows. But its over now and result #1 is a 5 seed with a first round exit. Not great, not bad.
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The "TAMU" explains why you're so content with mediocrity
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The "TAMU" explains why you're so content with mediocrity
Who said I'm content? I won't be happy until I get to witness a MU championship with my own eyes. I just recognize that it takes a lot of time, perseverance, and slogging through crap to get there.
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I would agree with that. A 24 win team that theoretically is returning its core and adding 3 guards with size. Future looks good. This year ended poorly, no doubt. But 350 teams end the year pissed.
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Seriously, and give the "rebuild" thing a rest. Sure, Buzz left a dumpster fire. But it's not like Wojo walked into a program that had never had a winning record and played their ball in a low-major conference, in a gym with a leaky roof and a broken screen door and a 2nd-hand yellow school bus that took them to their games.
He walked into a program that been to the post-season in 12 of the previous 13 years, 10 of those those being NCAA appearances that included 2 SS, 1 EE and 1 FF. ]
He walked into a program in the top-10 of MBB spending in the NCAA.
He walked into a program with a world-class practice facility.
He walked into a program with a storied history.
If we had been in the wilderness of college basketball, if we were DePaul, then this type of "rebuild" would be satisfactory.
but WE ARE MARQUETTE. That meant something when I was a student.
It should have taken Wojo a season to turn things around. Maybe we were on track in year 3, but to be no better today than we were then has nothing to do with Wojo "rebuilding" from Buzz's sh*tstorm. It's completely on the team and program that Wojo has put together.
Enough with claiming people are saying rebuild. I think it was you that said folks were saying rebuild all five years....please show one person that ever said that.
Rebuild was appropriate descriptor in year one and two. That is what people have typically said. Low and behold, years 3, 4, and 5 we went to the post season when we weren’t rebuilding.
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Enough with claiming people are saying rebuild. I think it was you that said folks were saying rebuild all five years....please show one person that ever said that.
Rebuild was appropriate descriptor in year one and two. That is what people have typically said. Low and behold, years 3, 4, and 5 we went to the post season when we weren’t rebuilding.
As a point of reference our internet face of MU basketball , Mr. Dodds, said it was a rebuild well into year 5 . He officially declared the rebuild over earlier this year.
https://247sports.com/college/marquette/Reply/DoddsOnSports-Reply-128424520/
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I also said it was a 5 year rebuild, meaning it would take 5 years to get a high seed in the NCAA tournament. Rebuild is most definitely over.
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I would agree with that. A 24 win team that theoretically is returning its core and adding 3 guards with size. Future looks good. This year ended poorly, no doubt. But 350 teams end the year pissed.
do 350 teams lose 7 of their last 9 games to end the season? it's not just one loss to a hot mid major which is bad enough.
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I agree with Brother TAMU.
Year 5. The rebuild is over. You are what you are.
The question that we as Brother and Sister Scoopers have to ask is whether the progression in our program plateaued or we've merely hit a rough pocket of air.
I damn well hope we're still climbing. Because I agree -- WE ARE MARQUETTE!
We don't flunk the final exam for the 2018-2019 season. Yet we did!
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do 350 teams lose 7 of their last 9 games to end the season? it's not just one loss to a hot mid major which is bad enough.
Nope. Which is why my post included the phrase....'the year ended poorly, no doubt'. But it does not detract from the fact that this was a 24 win team that theoretically is returning its core.
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Year 3-5 were better than years 1-2. And in terms of regular season overall, even with the collapse, I think year 5 was better than the prior 4 (+ Buzz's last year)... almost like we were... building something. I think it's possible to be both content with what happened this season today, while also disappointed with the finish and expecting more going forward. I think Wojo's seat rightfully gets hot if we regress next season. I think this season (and if things shuffle out differently, with a different matchup, we potentially win a game or two this tournament) is a reasonable "normal" to expect- challenge for conf title, top 25 team throughout the majority of the year, as long as Marquette is regularly making runs at the tournament. Wojo has improvements to make, but I think we can still get there with him.
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Rebuild is over. Could it have gone quicker? Who knows. But its over now and result #1 is a 5 seed with a first round exit. Not great, not bad.
Ohhh now I get it. So this was actually year one of the Wojo era and the other 4 years didn’t count at all. Got it. Though I can’t say for sure, I’d estimate Wojo made around $6-8 million for those four years, which might as well be deleted from next year’s media guide because that’s how much they didn’t count. Good work if you can get it!
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I would agree with that. A 24 win team that theoretically is returning its core and adding 3 guards with size. Future looks good. This year ended poorly, no doubt. But 350 teams end the year pissed.
My biggest concern about next year is the fact that this team has been exposed. I think how we finished the season has alot more to do with the fact that teams figured us out, than our guys being banged up.
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My biggest concern about next year is the fact that this team has been exposed. I think how we finished the season has alot more to do with the fact that teams figured us out, than our guys being banged up.
Same thing was said last year. We were exposed and losing Rowsey would kill us. We improved drastically.
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My biggest concern about next year is the fact that this team has been exposed. I think how we finished the season has alot more to do with the fact that teams figured us out, than our guys being banged up.
We will have to disagree about the banged up part. Regarding the first part, you know what helps when other teams make adjustments to what MU is trying to do? Having options. This year, taking Howard out meant putting Chartouny in. Or running without a PG. Or more minutes for Cain. Next year, let us just pretend for the sake of argument that Sam and Markus are in early foul trouble and the other team is playing fast. OK. Next year, a team of Koby, Greg, Sacar, Bailey, and ThEd can be run out there. If the opponents are don't have a true post in the game, Koby, Greg, Sacar, Bailey, and Joey. Do you see how that might be better? Hell, run that line up and make the other team adjust to it.
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Sure, Buzz left a dumpster fire.
i have consistently seen this sentiment. Buzz left behind:
Duane Wilson
Luke Fischer
juan anderson
JaJuan johnson
steve Taylor
Derrick wilson
Sandy Cohen
Todd Mayo
and Deonte Burton
Not the 27 Yankees, but not chopped liver either.
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As a point of reference our internet face of MU basketball , Mr. Dodds, said it was a rebuild well into year 5 . He officially declared the rebuild over earlier this year.
https://247sports.com/college/marquette/Reply/DoddsOnSports-Reply-128424520/
Dodd’s isn’t a poster here at Scoop to my knowledge. I don’t know anyone here that claims we are still rebuilding, but I suppose if you post on both sites ( I don’t) then one could get confused and bring what they are saying over here.
Never cross the streams, we learned that in Ghostbusters.
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i have consistently seen this sentiment. Buzz left behind:
Duane Wilson
Luke Fischer
juan anderson
JaJuan johnson
steve Taylor
Derrick wilson
Sandy Cohen
Todd Mayo
and Deonte Burton
Not the 27 Yankees, but not chopped liver either.
Agree, Buzz's team was down but no Dumpster Fire. He's a good coach.
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do 350 teams lose 7 of their last 9 games to end the season? it's not just one loss to a hot mid major which is bad enough.
Iowa lost 5 of 6 (and 6 of 8) just like we did coming into the tournament, only they were getting clobbered and lost to teams like Rutgers by 14 on their home court.
They got Cincy in the tournament, and won. IN COLUMBUS OHIO, the mighty Mick Cronin couldn't win practically a home game.
MATCHUPS MATTER. Crapshoot.
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i have consistently seen this sentiment. Buzz left behind:
Duane Wilson
Luke Fischer
juan anderson
JaJuan johnson
steve Taylor
Derrick wilson
Sandy Cohen
Todd Mayo
and Deonte Burton
Not the 27 Yankees, but not chopped liver either.
Juan Anderson bust. Steve Taylor bust. Sandy Cohen bust. Todd Mayo...are you kidding me. Deonte wanted out of Milwaukee. Derrick Wilson...come on.
Please, get serious.
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Juan Anderson bust. Steve Taylor bust. Sandy Cohen bust. Todd Mayo...are you kidding me. Deonte wanted out of Milwaukee. Derrick Wilson...come on.
Please, get serious.
Sandy Cohen is still playing in the post-season, btw.
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Iowa lost 5 of 6 (and 6 of 8) just like we did coming into the tournament, only they were getting clobbered and lost to teams like Rutgers by 14 on their home court.
They got Cincy in the tournament, and won.
MATCHUPS MATTER. Crapshoot.
Facing a tough althletic team with the conference player of the year and down 13 before they blinked. Yep it’s a good thing Iowa got lucky the the right draw! Lmao cheeeeeks
Bad draw had nothing to do with getting rolled yesterday
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Sandy Cohen is still playing in the post-season, btw.
I was told here by reputable posters that the NIT doesn't count....UWGB's win was in the CIT!! At any rate, he is a mid major player and that's where he is at. Didn't belong on our roster, but this is an example of what Buzz left us. Along with mid major Steve Taylor, etc, etc. Good kids, worked their butts off, no issue at all with them. But for years I would hear how other coaches didn't capitalize on the Final Four with recruiting. After Buzz's run (S16, S16, E8) this is what was left in the cupboard?
Again, the double standards here are incredible.
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Facing a tough althletic team with the conference player of the year and down 13 before they blinked. Yep it’s a good thing Iowa got lucky the the right draw! Lmao cheeeeeks
Bad draw had nothing to do with getting rolled yesterday
Who we played yesterday had EVERYTHING to do with why we lost. It is why so many took Murray State because of how good they were. I would have loved taking on St. Mary's, Iowa, Minnesota, etc, etc. Hell, three weeks ago people here were saying NO FSU, NO MURRAY STATE, etc. That's our kryptonite.
Cincinnati played in COLUMBUS, OH for Christ sake.
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Who we played yesterday had EVERYTHING to do with why we lost. It is why so many took Murray State because of how good they were. I would have loved taking on St. Mary's, Iowa, Minnesota, etc, etc. Hell, three weeks ago people here were saying NO FSU, NO MURRAY STATE, etc. That's our kryptonite.
Cincinnati played in COLUMBUS, OH for Christ sake.
Suuure it did. That’s why we got our doors blown off. In fact that’s why we had an historically epic collapse to end the season. Bad luck.
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I was told here by reputable posters that the NIT doesn't count....UWGB's win was in the CIT!! At any rate, he is a mid major player and that's where he is at. Didn't belong on our roster, but this is an example of what Buzz left us. Along with mid major Steve Taylor, etc, etc. Good kids, worked their butts off, no issue at all with them. But for years I would hear how other coaches didn't capitalize on the Final Four with recruiting. After Buzz's run (S16, S16, E8) this is what was left in the cupboard?
Again, the double standards here are incredible.
Cheeks, you need to have a counter governor installed on your submit button. A shared aside (btw) on a kid’s good news shouldn’t trigger an all out full frontal defense of your Wojo love. Share in the good vibe of Sandy and his family which are very tied to MU (inlcluding Wojo’s first (re)signed recruit and one he felt good enough to start). The young man is having an excellent senior year.
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Cheeks, you need to have a counter governor installed on your submit button. A shared aside (btw) on a kid’s good news shouldn’t trigger an all out full frontal defense of your Wojo love. Share in the good vibe of Sandy and his family which are very tied to MU (inlcluding Wojo’s first (re)signed recruit and one he felt good enough to start). The young man is having an excellent senior year.
At a mid-major....
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Juan Anderson bust. Steve Taylor bust. Sandy Cohen bust. Todd Mayo...are you kidding me. Deonte wanted out of Milwaukee. Derrick Wilson...come on.
Please, get serious.
And don't forget the man who spends most of his day posting messages on a collage basketball board. if Derrick Wilson was a "bust" what the f-ck does that make you?
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At a mid-major....
Yes, we all know he is at a mid-major. It doesn’t take away from the kid’s success.
Btw, while we are at the passive-aggressive game, a mid-major kicked our royal asses yesterday.
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Cheeks, you need to have a counter governor installed on your submit button. A shared aside (btw) on a kid’s good news shouldn’t trigger an all out full frontal defense of your Wojo love. Share in the good vibe of Sandy and his family which are very tied to MU (inlcluding Wojo’s first (re)signed recruit and one he felt good enough to start). The young man is having an excellent senior year.
I'm happy for him, and said they were good kids which I believe....but the discussion point here was the roster that Buzz left us, which that list of names is not a high value major roster for a good chunk of those guys. There's a reason Sandy went to UWGB, a reason Taylor transferred to a mid major, etc. I can be happy for them, while also pointing out that roster was not up to snuff and further point out the hypocrisy here by some posters who claim after a NCAA runs in the past we should have had these great haul of players, yet Buzz didn't with that class.
My love for Wojo? Look, if he doesn't cut it and we start sliding backward, then I'm all for a change. That hasn't happened...the data shows we have continued to get better year to year, with one exception (last year). Nothing to do with love, I'm using straight data.
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Who said I'm content? I won't be happy until I get to witness a MU championship with my own eyes. I just recognize that it takes a lot of time, perseverance, and slogging through crap to get there.
Agreed.
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Seriously, and give the "rebuild" thing a rest. Sure, Buzz left a dumpster fire. But it's not like Wojo walked into a program that had never had a winning record and played their ball in a low-major conference, in a gym with a leaky roof and a broken screen door and a 2nd-hand yellow school bus that took them to their games.
He walked into a program that been to the post-season in 12 of the previous 13 years, 10 of those those being NCAA appearances that included 2 SS, 1 EE and 1 FF. ]
He walked into a program in the top-10 of MBB spending in the NCAA.
He walked into a program with a world-class practice facility.
He walked into a program with a storied history.
If we had been in the wilderness of college basketball, if we were DePaul, then this type of "rebuild" would be satisfactory.
but WE ARE MARQUETTE. That meant something when I was a student.
It should have taken Wojo a season to turn things around. Maybe we were on track in year 3, but to be no better today than we were then has nothing to do with Wojo "rebuilding" from Buzz's sh*tstorm. It's completely on the team and program that Wojo has put together.
If you're embarrassed about anything, it should be this post. Total nonsense.
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but WE ARE MARQUETTE. That meant something when I was a student.
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/019/304/old.jpg)
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It should have taken Wojo a season to turn things around. Maybe we were on track in year 3, but to be no better today than we were then has nothing to do with Wojo "rebuilding" from Buzz's sh*tstorm. It's completely on the team and program that Wojo has put together.
Do you really believe the program is in no better shape today than in 2017?
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do 350 teams lose 7 of their last 9 games to end the season?
Nope. And neither did Marquette.
Last 9 games:
2/20 - W vs Butler
2/23 - W at Prov
2/27 - L at Nova
3/3 - L vs CU
3/6 - L at SH
3/9 - L vs GU
3/14 - W vs StJ
3/15 - L vs SH
3/21 - L vs Murray St
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Nope. And neither did Marquette.
Last 9 games:
2/20 - W vs Butler
2/23 - W at Prov
2/27 - L at Nova
3/3 - L vs CU
3/6 - L at SH
3/9 - L vs GU
3/14 - W vs StJ
3/15 - L vs SH
3/21 - L vs Murray St
You are correct my mistake. 6 losses in 9 makes all the difference. In that case, let's extend wojo and bump his salary.
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You are correct my mistake. 6 losses in 9 makes all the difference. In that case, let's extend wojo and bump his salary.
Glad you took my post in the manner in which it was intended. 3-6 does blow, too!
See you at the extension signing announcement.
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Enough with claiming people are saying rebuild. I think it was you that said folks were saying rebuild all five years....please show one person that ever said that.
Rebuild was appropriate descriptor in year one and two. That is what people have typically said. Low and behold, years 3, 4, and 5 we went to the post season when we weren’t rebuilding.
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You sure do set the bar really low don't you?? Big deal...they were in the postseason 3 years in a row...and did NOTHING in the two appearances in the tournament that matters. Have you forgotten that they had a stretch not long ago where they made the NCAA's 7 straight years?? Wisconsin made it what?? 17 straight before not making it last year?? Gonzaga is at like 19 or 20 straight or whatever. THAT'S how it should be at MU. Making the tournament shouldn't be a "privilege" as Wojo said, at MU it should be a right of spring. Every year when the season starts, MU should be a program that barring a disaster, you know they are going to the tournament, and are playing the year for seeding essentially.
Leave the "privilege" of making the tournament to the Wofford's of the world. MU is supposed to be big boy BB.
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You sure do set the bar really low don't you?? Big deal...they were in the postseason 3 years in a row...and did NOTHING in the two appearances in the tournament that matters. Have you forgotten that they had a stretch not long ago where they made the NCAA's 7 straight years?? Wisconsin made it what?? 17 straight before not making it last year?? Gonzaga is at like 19 or 20 straight or whatever. THAT'S how it should be at MU. Making the tournament shouldn't be a "privilege" as Wojo said, at MU it should be a right of spring. Every year when the season starts, MU should be a program that barring a disaster, you know they are going to the tournament, and are playing the year for seeding essentially.
Leave the "privilege" of making the tournament to the Wofford's of the world. MU is supposed to be big boy BB.
Can you tell me the most obvious difference between Marquette and Wisconsin or Gonzaga in the last 20 years?
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Glad you took my post in the manner in which it was intended. 3-6 does blow, too!
See you at the extension signing announcement.
hahahahahaha. I thought you would take me serious. actually I hope wojo has the kind if season next year that does get him extended
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You sure do set the bar really low don't you?? Big deal...they were in the postseason 3 years in a row...and did NOTHING in the two appearances in the tournament that matters. Have you forgotten that they had a stretch not long ago where they made the NCAA's 7 straight years?? Wisconsin made it what?? 17 straight before not making it last year?? Gonzaga is at like 19 or 20 straight or whatever. THAT'S how it should be at MU. Making the tournament shouldn't be a "privilege" as Wojo said, at MU it should be a right of spring. Every year when the season starts, MU should be a program that barring a disaster, you know they are going to the tournament, and are playing the year for seeding essentially.
Leave the "privilege" of making the tournament to the Wofford's of the world. MU is supposed to be big boy BB.
Hmm, interesting. So that's how it should be. OK, well I don't see us changing conferences. Nor do I see us improving the weather, thought I think global warming is just fine (higher crop yields, less starvation), and oh...wait...that other thing...stability.
Gonzaga, Mark Few since 1999. But you know what, after his second year over the next 13 years they made it out of the first weekend two times despite being in the upper side of the bracket most of those years, including a 1, 2 and 3 seed....and guess who wanted Few fired for not going far enough. Hmm.
This just in, a lot of luck goes into advancing. A lot of good coaches and programs struggle for any type of consistency because of the nature of the event.
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Suuure it did. That’s why we got our doors blown off. In fact that’s why we had an historically epic collapse to end the season. Bad luck.
The end of the season in CBB, and needing one win out of 4 games(2 at home) against teams you are better then...it's all a crap shoot. ?-(
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The end of the season in CBB, and needing one win out of 4 games(2 at home) against teams you are better then...it's all a crap shoot. ?-(
The NCAA tournament is a crapshoot, no one said that about the regular season...please try to keep up.
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It has nothing to do with storied past (what have you done for me lately), rent at an arena, salary, or china cabinets.
It has a lot to do with admission standards and graduation rates.
When Marquette accepted me I was an under privileged kid who had parents who never graduated from high school. My grand parents could neither read nor write. I audited class after class, worked, lived in a furnished room or hotel, and took five and a half years to earn my degree.
Point being, the BOT don't identify with kids from the lower class. It is as simple as that.
BTW, when I went to my 50th reunion a few years ago I noticed some people conspicuously absent. The Jesuits.
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i have consistently seen this sentiment. Buzz left behind:
Duane Wilson
Luke Fischer
juan anderson
JaJuan johnson
steve Taylor
Derrick wilson
Sandy Cohen
Todd Mayo
and Deonte Burton
Not the 27 Yankees, but not chopped liver either.
So Wojo was supposed to come in and do well with Buzz's players who he could only get them to 17-15 the year before?
Mayo was gone before Wojo got here, Burton left at mid season, Taylor and Cohen were underachievers while at MU and both transferred out to mid-majors. The only players to leave MU to play at other major schools were Burton and Wilson, as a grad transfer. Anderson, Fisher, and Derrick were career underachiever. JJJ finally looked decent his senior year.
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So Wojo was supposed to come in and do well with someone Buzz's players who could only get them to 17-15 the year before?
Mayo was gone before Wojo got her, Burton left at mid season, Taylor and Cohen were underachievers while at MU and both transferred out to mid-majors. The only players to leave MU to play at other major schools were Burton and Wilson, as a grad transfer. Anderson, Fisher, and Derrick were career underachiever. JJJ finally looked decent his senior year.
Luke and Duane were also dealing with lingering injuries. Really the only one that you could argue Wojo was able to coach fully that entire time at full speed was JJJ
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So Wojo was supposed to come in and do well with Buzz's players who he could only get them to 17-15 the year before?
Mayo was gone before Wojo got here, Burton left at mid season, Taylor and Cohen were underachievers while at MU and both transferred out to mid-majors. The only players to leave MU to play at other major schools were Burton and Wilson, as a grad transfer. Anderson, Fisher, and Derrick were career underachiever. JJJ finally looked decent his senior year.
Uhhh ... aren't you forgetting someone?
John "Magic" Dawson.
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Sew, Nico Mannion's a Mickey D AA. Two bad Wojo couldn't bring home da bacon, hey?
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Sew, Nico Mannion's a Mickey D AA. Two bad Wojo couldn't bring home da bacon, hey?
Wojo sux. Fyre himm yesturd'eh?
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It should have taken Wojo a season to turn things around. Maybe we were on track in year 3, but to be no better today than we were then has nothing to do with Wojo "rebuilding" from Buzz's sh*tstorm. It's completely on the team and program that Wojo has put together.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/Ti311CSUMI67m/giphy.gif)