Author Topic: Manny Ramirez suspended 50 games for positive drug test (Read 7159 times)

GuyIncognito · « **on:** May 07, 2009, 10:56:28 AM »

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-manny-ramirez8-2009may08,0,6324894.story

Wow. Sucks for the Dodgers who are off to a great start. Good thing they didn't do a long term contract with him.

RawdogDX · « **Reply #1 on:** May 07, 2009, 11:04:08 AM »

I think that 99% of baseball players who put up hall of fame type numbers cheated.
This pitcher who started out 6-0 with a .4 era after bouncing back from a bout with depression? Fast ball went from 89 to 94. happy pills don't do that for you.

I'm convinced of two people's innocence. Greg maddux, think this one is obvious. And Frank Thomas, who had a naturally huge football player type body at 16, was an advocate for tougher testing, and had a career that followed a natural pattern of regression.

dwaderoy2004 · « **Reply #2 on:** May 07, 2009, 11:13:03 AM »

except that pitcher could always throw 94-96. he did it in high school, did it in the minors, did it in the bullpen. he just couldn't do it when his head was in the wrong place. some sort of mental block.

ChicosBailBonds · « **Reply #3 on:** May 07, 2009, 11:16:06 AM »

Are the Red Sox going to forfeit their titles?

wadesworld · « **Reply #4 on:** May 07, 2009, 11:45:58 AM »

Quote from: dwaderoy2004 on May 07, 2009, 11:13:03 AM

except that pitcher could always throw 94-96. he did it in high school, did it in the minors, did it in the bullpen. he just couldn't do it when his head was in the wrong place. some sort of mental block.

Yeah you should really read the article in SI. Great article. Clearly the problem with him when that was going on was mental. When you aren't mentally there you don't play as well as you can/should. I'd be shocked if he used steroids. I'd also be shocked if Griffey used steroids.

Robyrd5 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 07, 2009, 12:21:25 PM »

Couldn't be happier to see Manny's suspension. I can't stand that guy.

As for mental blocks, anyone remember Mark Wohlers of the Atlanta Braves about ten years ago? The poor guy went from throwing 100 mph pitches in relief to not being able to get the ball anywhere near the plate. I specifically remember watching one game when Bobby Cox put him in just so he could build some sort of self-confidence, but it failed miserably as the guy threw wild pitch after wild pitch.

NY Times article about mental blocks for pitchers: http://www.nytimes.com/1998/08/23/sports/wildly-out-of-control-is-it-pitcher-s-motion-or-emotion.html

SaintPaulWarrior · « **Reply #6 on:** May 07, 2009, 01:00:32 PM »

Quote from: Robyrd5 on May 07, 2009, 12:21:25 PM

Couldn't be happier to see Manny's suspension. I can't stand that guy.

As for mental blocks, anyone remember Mark Wohlers of the Atlanta Braves about ten years ago? The poor guy went from throwing 100 mph pitches in relief to not being able to get the ball anywhere near the plate. I specifically remember watching one game when Bobby Cox put him in just so he could build some sort of self-confidence, but it failed miserably as the guy threw wild pitch after wild pitch.

NY Times article about mental blocks for pitchers: http://www.nytimes.com/1998/08/23/sports/wildly-out-of-control-is-it-pitcher-s-motion-or-emotion.html

2B Chuck Knoblauch couldn't throw to first if his life depended on it.

Chili · « **Reply #7 on:** May 07, 2009, 01:17:45 PM »

Not steroids but rather dick drugs.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ys-ramirezsuspension050709&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

dsfire · « **Reply #8 on:** May 07, 2009, 01:21:47 PM »

Wow. Stupid, but not "cheating" per se... at least, not on the baseball diamond

I'd imagine the Dodgers are less than delighted.

Mayor McCheese · « **Reply #9 on:** May 07, 2009, 01:35:36 PM »

Quote from: dsfire on May 07, 2009, 01:21:47 PM

Wow. Stupid, but not "cheating" per se... at least, not on the baseball diamond

I'd imagine the Dodgers are less than delighted.

the owner's daughter doesn't mind

Just Manny being Manny

SaintPaulWarrior · « **Reply #10 on:** May 07, 2009, 01:49:32 PM »

He took a women's fertility drug..... hGC. It is taken after completing a steroid cycle to deal with testosterone levels. Not a dick drug.

Chili · « **Reply #11 on:** May 07, 2009, 01:59:03 PM »

Quote from: SaintPaulWarrior on May 07, 2009, 01:49:32 PM

He took a women's fertility drug..... hGC. It is taken after completing a steroid cycle to deal with testosterone levels. Not a dick drug.

just read that now too. controls testosterone.

PuertoRicanNightmare · « **Reply #12 on:** May 07, 2009, 02:24:19 PM »

How soon before Albert Pujols is outed? He's the most obvious case since McGwire. He went from a nobody...a lightly regarded prospect...in A ball to the major leagues where he hit .330 with 37 HRS and 130 RBI. Out of nowhere!

StillAWarrior · « **Reply #13 on:** May 07, 2009, 02:47:58 PM »

Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on May 07, 2009, 02:24:19 PM

How soon before Albert Pujols is outed? He's the most obvious case since McGwire. He went from a nobody...a lightly regarded prospect...in A ball to the major leagues where he hit .330 with 37 HRS and 130 RBI. Out of nowhere!

I've wondered about this one, too.

How about a fun (maybe) and meaningless (certainly) parlor game for everyone. Two questions. If you had to bet your house, who would you bet has taken steroids, and who has not? I'll limit it to current players just for the heck of it, but answer whoever you want. Obviously, this is nothing more than idle speculation.

Who do I think has used? Travis Hafner.
Who hasn't? This is the much more difficult question, I think...Lincecum? Although I'm not sure I'd bet the house on anyone.

RJax55 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 07, 2009, 03:01:43 PM »

Good topic. If I was betting my house, here's the guys I would pick...

Who used? That's easy, David Ortiz.
Who's clean? I'll go with the soft-tossing lefty, Jaime Moyer.

jmayer1 · « **Reply #15 on:** May 07, 2009, 03:10:23 PM »

Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on May 07, 2009, 02:24:19 PM

How soon before Albert Pujols is outed? He's the most obvious case since McGwire. He went from a nobody...a lightly regarded prospect...in A ball to the major leagues where he hit .330 with 37 HRS and 130 RBI. Out of nowhere!

The most obvious case since McGwire? Man, I thought your stupid hyperbole was limited to Marquette basketball but I guess not. Pujols came over to the US after his sophomore year of hs and was named all state both years, but chose to stay close to home and attended a lightly-regarded community college not far from St. Louis. A lot of scouts were worried that he didn't have a real good physique and also thought he didn't play any position particularly well (and he didn't really until he settled in at first). After being drafted by the Cards in the 13th round during the 1999 draft Pujols progressed through the minors in a year and a half and won the ROY in 2001. The guy can flat out rake and has done so at every level he has every played. He has consistently had a good batting average and on base percentage and hits line drives all over the yard. He hasn't seen a spike in his power similar to guys like Bonds, Sosa, Caminitti..etc or his appearance, two telltale signs that a guy has been juicing.

Of course, I wouldn't be surprised by anthing anymore; I definitely wouldn't have suspected ManRam.

Skatastrophy · « **Reply #16 on:** May 07, 2009, 03:49:57 PM »

Definitely using: Kerry Wood - 2000-2003
Definitely not using: Kerry Wood - after 2003

It's the only way I can explain what's up with that guy's flash of brilliance.

StillAWarrior · « **Reply #17 on:** May 07, 2009, 03:59:12 PM »

Quote from: Skatastrophy on May 07, 2009, 03:49:57 PM

Definitely using: Kerry Wood - 2000-2003
Definitely not using: Kerry Wood - after 2003

It's the only way I can explain what's up with that guy's flash of brilliance.

And now the Indians ("my" team) are stuck with the post-roids Kerry Woods and the post-roids Travis Hafner. Damn.

RJax55 · « **Reply #18 on:** May 07, 2009, 04:01:12 PM »

Quote from: jmayer1 on May 07, 2009, 03:10:23 PM

The guy can flat out rake and has done so at every level he has every played. He has consistently had a good batting average and on base percentage and hits line drives all over the yard. He hasn't seen a spike in his power similar to guys like Bonds, Sosa, Caminitti..etc or his appearance, two telltale signs that a guy has been juicing.

Before this year, you could make the same claim about Manny or A-Rod. Most people didn't think those guys were doing 'roids because they were great hitters, who's power numbers never spiked.

The fact is Pujols has put up historic numbers in a time where many players have or are using performance enhancing drugs. So yes, he is a logical candidate to be look at as a steroid user, right or wrong ... That's just the time we live in.

I would be reluctant to defend any MLB player when comes to this stuff. The truth is, no one really knows who's clean and who's not.

🏀 · « **Reply #19 on:** May 07, 2009, 04:09:04 PM »

Quote from: Skatastrophy on May 07, 2009, 03:49:57 PM

Definitely using: Kerry Wood - 2000-2003
Definitely not using: Kerry Wood - after 2003

It's the only way I can explain what's up with that guy's flash of brilliance.

Are you serious? Typical Brewer ignorance.

1998: May 6th The Most Dominant Pitching Performance in History
1999: Tommy John's Surgery.
2000: 8-7 after the surgery.
2001: 12-6 with a 3.36 ERA, while missing several starts.
2002: 12-11 with a 3.67 ERA, no starts missed. 214 Innings Pitched in 33 Games due to Don Baylor.
2003: 14-11 with a 3.20 ERA.
2004: 8-9. Injured for two months.
2005: Nothing
2006: Next to nothing.
2007: Relief

He was most dominant when he first started. He's been injured or recovering since. There is no abrupt explosion of stats that would indicate juicing, unless you consider steady improvement over four seasons an explosion.

Get your crap right.

cheebs09 · « **Reply #20 on:** May 07, 2009, 04:11:54 PM »

Quote from: RJax55 on May 07, 2009, 03:01:43 PM

Good topic. If I was betting my house, here's the guys I would pick...

Who's clean? I'll go with the soft-tossing lefty, Jaime Moyer.

Craig Counsell, Greatest player of the steroid era.
http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/turns_out_craig_counsell

Canned Goods n Ammo · « **Reply #21 on:** May 07, 2009, 04:19:35 PM »

Quote from: RJax55 on May 07, 2009, 03:01:43 PM

Who used? That's easy, David Ortiz.

This wouldn't shock me when you look at his stats, but I believe he's been very outspoken about testing. I think he has a ton of quotes out there about it.

Now, being outspoken is no guarantee, but makes him more of a 50/50 candidate rather than a sure user.

jmayer1 · « **Reply #22 on:** May 07, 2009, 04:22:16 PM »

Quote from: RJax55 on May 07, 2009, 04:01:12 PM

Before this year, you could make the same claim about Manny or A-Rod. Most people didn't think those guys were doing 'roids because they were great hitters, who's power numbers never spiked.

The fact is Pujols has put up historic numbers in a time where many players have or are using performance enhancing drugs. So yes, he is a logical candidate to be look at as a steroid user, right or wrong ... That's just the time we live in.

I would be reluctant to defend any MLB player when comes to this stuff. The truth is, no one really knows who's clean and who's not.

I don't disagree. Nearly every player from this era will be looked at with scrutiny, but to say Pujols is "the most obvious case since McGwire" is pretty stupid.

StillAWarrior · « **Reply #23 on:** May 07, 2009, 04:23:38 PM »

Quote from: 2002mualum on May 07, 2009, 04:19:35 PM

Now, being outspoken is no guarantee, but makes him more of a 50/50 candidate rather than a sure user.

I may be remembering this wrong, but wasn't Sosa pretty outspoken about testing...until Rick Reilly (I think) invited him to submit to voluntary testing in an interview.

🏀 · « **Reply #24 on:** May 07, 2009, 04:31:26 PM »

Quote from: StillAWarrior on May 07, 2009, 04:23:38 PM

I may be remembering this wrong, but wasn't Sosa pretty outspoken about testing...until Rick Reilly (I think) invited him to submit to voluntary testing in an interview.

Yes he was, then he forgot English, just like every other occasion he wasn't hitting dingers.

StillAWarrior · « **Reply #25 on:** May 07, 2009, 04:38:38 PM »

Seems like as good of a time as any to restart the Bill Simmons debate: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/090507&sportCat=mlb

Timely. Obviously, he had to have had most of this written before today's events, but he incorporated things pretty seamlessly. Fair warning: he's writing about the Red Sox...but I don't recall seeing any reality TV references.

reinko · « **Reply #26 on:** May 07, 2009, 04:44:21 PM »

My Brewer themed of who did: Dante Bichette and Greg Vaughn

SaintPaulWarrior · « **Reply #27 on:** May 07, 2009, 04:48:09 PM »

Did......Josh Hamilton....he did every other drug on the planet

Did not.....Jim Thome

Canned Goods n Ammo · « **Reply #28 on:** May 07, 2009, 04:49:19 PM »

Quote from: marqptm on May 07, 2009, 04:31:26 PM

Yes he was, then he forgot English, just like every other occasion he wasn't hitting dingers.

Touche.

Ortiz wouldn't be the first guy to get caught in a lie (Palmero).

Like I said, in my mind he goes from a "sure thing" to "maybe/maybe not".

Mayor McCheese · « **Reply #29 on:** May 07, 2009, 06:00:02 PM »

Did: David Ortiz

Did Not: Prince Fielder

MUeng · « **Reply #30 on:** May 07, 2009, 06:05:37 PM »

did: pedro martinez
didnt: got to go with craig counsell

🏀 · « **Reply #31 on:** May 07, 2009, 06:16:59 PM »

Did: Ken Caminiti
Did not: Rod Beck

reinko · « **Reply #32 on:** May 07, 2009, 07:12:21 PM »

Good SherlockPTM, Caminiti admitted to it.

Did you need Ghostwriter to spell that out for you???

marquette09 · « **Reply #33 on:** May 07, 2009, 07:35:01 PM »

Did: Brian Giles
Did not: Ryan Theriot (but the last couple days got me thinkin...)

🏀 · « **Reply #34 on:** May 07, 2009, 09:13:42 PM »

Quote from: reinko on May 07, 2009, 07:12:21 PM

Good SherlockPTM, Caminiti admitted to it.

Did you need Ghostwriter to spell that out for you???

Playing it safe.

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Author Topic: Manny Ramirez suspended 50 games for positive drug test (Read 7159 times)