COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")

[rocket surgeon]

Thought you were a dentist, not a medical examiner.

Most epidemiologists and infectious disease experts believe that the number of deaths has been under-reported by a considerable margin.

But hey, if an anonymous guy on the interwebs says otherwise ... and then gives us a link to an article that doesn't come close to proving what he was claiming ... well then, I sit corrected.

Please don’t tell me you haven’t seen the widespread corrections because if you haven’t, then we’ve got to start with teaching you how google works or watching some news, not all.  But Pennsylvania and Colorado are 2 states with some significant corrections.

[rocket surgeon]

Thought you were a dentist, not a medical examiner.

Most epidemiologists and infectious disease experts believe that the number of deaths has been under-reported by a considerable margin.

But hey, if an anonymous guy on the interwebs says otherwise ... and then gives us a link to an article that doesn't come close to proving what he was claiming ... well then, I sit corrected.

 i am ONLY A DENTIST, but i took enough microbiology between under grad and dental school to have a major in it.  that does not make me an epidemiologist by any means.  i also worked for a medical examiner at st joseph's hospital under dr charles altschuler while i was in dental school.  no, that doe not qualify me as a medical examiner, but i a little feel for what and how they do their jobs. 

i did post a link from the colorado sun i believe that stated the corrections in the death #'s.  i've got to be careful so as not to post links from anyof those "far right wing" sites though cuz we all know they lie and have an agenda

https://coloradosun.com/2020/05/15/colorado-coronavirus-death-certificate/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2020/04/25/coronavirus-death-toll-hard-track-1-3-death-certificates-wrong/3020778001/


but hey, if some guy purporting to be a "journalist" needs to have links, no problem,  this has been widely reported however.  even in the new york times

[pbiflyer]

Overall deaths are up significantly, even though they are significantly down in areas such as auto accidents, murders, flu related deaths, etc. are down.
Other states are doing there best to not count numbers or hide them. Welcome to Florida.

As Florida re-opens, COVID-19 data chief gets sidelined and researchers cry foul

https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/2020/05/18/censorship-covid-19-data-researcher-removed-florida-moves-re-open-state/5212398002/

Late last Friday, the architect and manager of Florida's COVID-19 dashboard — praised by White House officials for its accessibility — announced that she had been removed from her post, causing outcry from independent researchers now worried about government censorship.

But over the last few weeks it had "crashed" and gone offline; data has gone missing without explanation and access to the underlying data sheets has become increasingly difficult.

And from a Sinclair Broadcasting station even:
https://cbs12.com/news/local/woman-who-designed-floridas-covid-19-dashboard-has-been-removed-from-her-position
Rebekah Jones said in an email to CBS12 News that her removal was "not voluntary" and that she was removed from her position because she was ordered to censor some data, but refused to "manually change data to drum up support for the plan to reopen."

[pbiflyer]

Hey, look, another state having to change its numbers:

The state of Georgia made it look like its covid cases were going down ***by putting the dates out of order on its chart*** May 5 was followed by April 25, then back to May again, whatever made it look like a downslope.


https://twitter.com/Fahrenthold/status/1262029906512404480

[Jockey]

The good news is that we only have to put up with this "virus" for 6 more days. We have Pence's assurance that it will be gone by Monday.

Apparently, the virus won't really be gone, so we will just change the numbers. A Miracle!

[Galway Eagle]

i did post a link from the colorado sun i believe that stated the corrections in the death #'s.  i've got to be careful so as not to post links from anyof those "far right wing" sites though cuz we all know they lie and have an agenda

After your many rants against Huffpo MSNBC or even CNN which is considerably more centered (though admittedly still left of center) you cannot possibly be insinuating that you hold your far right wing media sites to a different standard or just don't believe that they don't have an agenda...

[MU82]

i am ONLY A DENTIST, but i took enough microbiology between under grad and dental school to have a major in it.  that does not make me an epidemiologist by any means.  i also worked for a medical examiner at st joseph's hospital under dr charles altschuler while i was in dental school.  no, that doe not qualify me as a medical examiner, but i a little feel for what and how they do their jobs. 

i did post a link from the colorado sun i believe that stated the corrections in the death #'s.  i've got to be careful so as not to post links from anyof those "far right wing" sites though cuz we all know they lie and have an agenda

https://coloradosun.com/2020/05/15/colorado-coronavirus-death-certificate/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2020/04/25/coronavirus-death-toll-hard-track-1-3-death-certificates-wrong/3020778001/


but hey, if some guy purporting to be a "journalist" needs to have links, no problem,  this has been widely reported however.  even in the new york times

Yes, some states have "corrected" to lower numbers. And some have "corrected" to higher numbers. Florida won't reveal all of its numbers, so we're supposed to take their governor's word for it. Georgia was intentionally under-reporting.

All I know is that the majority of articles I've read and TV reports I've seen have quoted epidemiologists and other infectious disease experts as saying the totals have been under-reported, and probably significantly so.

But just for funsies, let's say they have not been under-reported. Indeed, let's say the people you want to believe are right, and deaths have been over-reported by, say, 10%.

Congratulations, rocket! You can celebrate only 82K+ being killed by something Trump and Vice President Hannity called "just the flu" and Limbaugh called "the common cold." A mere 82K. And mostly old people, so who cares? You win!

Now, doc, you are free to go back to enthusiastically supporting a president who less than 3 months ago was boasting that U.S. coronavirus deaths would be "close to zero within days," who two months ago was counting on a "miracle" to make the virus magically disappear, and who last month was pushing his medical people to explore the benefits of injecting Lysol into the human body.

Because ... well ... science!

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Yes, some states have "corrected" to lower numbers. And some have "corrected" to higher numbers. Florida won't reveal all of its numbers, so we're supposed to take their governor's word for it. Georgia was intentionally under-reporting.

All I know is that the majority of articles I've read and TV reports I've seen have quoted epidemiologists and other infectious disease experts as saying the totals have been under-reported, and probably significantly so.

But just for funsies, let's say they have not been under-reported. Indeed, let's say the people you want to believe are right, and deaths have been over-reported by, say, 10%.

Congratulations, rocket! You can celebrate only 82K+ being killed by something Trump and Vice President Hannity called "just the flu" and Limbaugh called "the common cold." A mere 82K. And mostly old people, so who cares? You win!

Now, doc, you are free to go back to enthusiastically supporting a president who less than 3 months ago was boasting that U.S. coronavirus deaths would be "close to zero within days," who two months ago was counting on a "miracle" to make the virus magically disappear, and who last month was pushing his medical people to explore the benefits of injecting Lysol into the human body.

Because ... well ... science!

What are your qualifications and education in the fields of medicine and epidemiology?  How many science classes did you take in college?  How does being a blogger qualify you to understand the nuances of a public health emergency?

Thanks in advance for your answers.

[pbiflyer]

What are your qualifications and education in the fields of medicine and epidemiology?  How many science classes did you take in college?  How does being a blogger qualify you to understand the nuances of a public health emergency?

Thanks in advance for your answers.

Teal?

[forgetful]

Please don’t tell me you haven’t seen the widespread corrections because if you haven’t, then we’ve got to start with teaching you how google works or watching some news, not all.  But Pennsylvania and Colorado are 2 states with some significant corrections.

It's important to look at why they made corrections. For Pennsylvania, they had decided to use the model that most of the industrialized world uses, because it is more accurate and allows researchers to better track cases. They had decided to include deaths that were probable COVID, so lets say a person dies at home of double pneumonia, but had never been tested. Using a test here, is a waste of resources, it is almost certainly COVID, a clinical diagnosis is more than sufficient.

What happened after they did that, was there was extensive political pushback from the right, saying they were inflating numbers, trying to make Trump look bad. Based on political pressure, they removed the probable cases. That political pressure made it harder to track cases, and makes us undercount compared to how most of the industrial world counts numbers.

A similar story can be held for Colorado. Neither was a case where they were simply correcting for "errors." They were making changes under political pressure, to change to a system that intentionally undercounts compared to the rest of the world.

Do you think that is a good thing?

[jesmu84]

i am ONLY A DENTIST, but i took enough microbiology between under grad and dental school to have a major in it.  that does not make me an epidemiologist by any means.  i also worked for a medical examiner at st joseph's hospital under dr charles altschuler while i was in dental school.  no, that doe not qualify me as a medical examiner, but i a little feel for what and how they do their jobs. 

i did post a link from the colorado sun i believe that stated the corrections in the death #'s.  i've got to be careful so as not to post links from anyof those "far right wing" sites though cuz we all know they lie and have an agenda

https://coloradosun.com/2020/05/15/colorado-coronavirus-death-certificate/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2020/04/25/coronavirus-death-toll-hard-track-1-3-death-certificates-wrong/3020778001/


but hey, if some guy purporting to be a "journalist" needs to have links, no problem,  this has been widely reported however.  even in the new york times

Do you happen to have those answers yet that I asked for earlier?

[MU82]

What are your qualifications and education in the fields of medicine and epidemiology?  How many science classes did you take in college?  How does being a blogger qualify you to understand the nuances of a public health emergency?

Thanks in advance for your answers.

I read, I think, and I form opinions. Does that make me unique in ScoopLand? Or in America? Or in the world?

I mean, you state your opinion on many things, but I guess that is because you have spent years studying every subject on which you opine. It must have been challenging for you to go to college for, oh, 1,240 years.

And sure, before any Scooper ever again criticizes the president of the United States for wanting to inject people with Lysol, we should all have to earn advanced degrees in epidemiology. Because that's the only way anybody could possibly understand that it might be a bad idea.

[Pakuni]

And sure, before any Scooper ever again criticizes the president of the United States for wanting to inject people with Lysol, we should all have to earn advanced degrees in epidemiology. Because that's the only way anybody could possibly understand that it might be a bad idea.

Maybe we should hold posters on the main board to this standard before they're allowed to question coaching or recruiting strategies.
You've never coached D1 hoops? Then STFU about Wojo's decisions.

[MU82]

And here's an interesting story ...

https://www.christianpost.com/news/georgia-church-closes-two-weeks-after-reopening-as-families-come-down-with-coronavirus-236899/?fbclid=IwAR0fl1Tk019f4qPVWby_oDgTYVSlk0YBXaX5BVIi40paTsqkSUbL6Wz4x5A

A Georgia church that reopened after shutting down due to the coronavirus has axed in-person services again in what they describe as “an effort of extreme caution” as several of their families have become infected by the deadly disease.

Catoosa Baptist Tabernacle, an independent Baptist church led by Pastor Justin Gazaway in Ringgold, Georgia, restarted in-person services on April 26. Church representative Joan Lewis told The Christian Post on Monday, however, that they decided to suspend “in-person worship services for the foreseeable future” on May 11 after learning several families had contracted the virus.

[Hards Alumni]

Maybe we should hold posters on the main board to this standard before they're allowed to question coaching or recruiting strategies.
You've never coached D1 hoops? Then STFU about Wojo's decisions.

Wrong, just have to have dunked in HS.  That's the established standard.

[GBPhoenix1993]

And here's an interesting story ...

https://www.christianpost.com/news/georgia-church-closes-two-weeks-after-reopening-as-families-come-down-with-coronavirus-236899/?fbclid=IwAR0fl1Tk019f4qPVWby_oDgTYVSlk0YBXaX5BVIi40paTsqkSUbL6Wz4x5A

A Georgia church that reopened after shutting down due to the coronavirus has axed in-person services again in what they describe as “an effort of extreme caution” as several of their families have become infected by the deadly disease.

Catoosa Baptist Tabernacle, an independent Baptist church led by Pastor Justin Gazaway in Ringgold, Georgia, restarted in-person services on April 26. Church representative Joan Lewis told The Christian Post on Monday, however, that they decided to suspend “in-person worship services for the foreseeable future” on May 11 after learning several families had contracted the virus.

It's sad but I don't see any way large Churches can have in-person services without severe restrictions for at minimum the next few months.  I mean like a church that normally has 500 people for a service probably should be limited to like 25 persons or fewer which almost makes it not worth even having the in person service at all for a larger type church.

I belong to the Elmbrook mega church here in Brookfield, WI and I don't see myself going back to an in person service for awhile if they even bother having them. 

I saw Spring Creek church in this area had everyone just stay in their cars and listen almost like in a drive-in movie theater.  Everyone was in the parking lot, but nobody got out of their cars.  I think this is the way churches will need to operate or they will have to be very creative in how to limit/stop virus spread.  The days of having large churches with everyone packed closely together for worship needs to be put on hold for at least a little while until there is more confidence it can be done safely. 

[pacearrow02]

Yes, some states have "corrected" to lower numbers. And some have "corrected" to higher numbers. Florida won't reveal all of its numbers, so we're supposed to take their governor's word for it. Georgia was intentionally under-reporting.

All I know is that the majority of articles I've read and TV reports I've seen have quoted epidemiologists and other infectious disease experts as saying the totals have been under-reported, and probably significantly so.

But just for funsies, let's say they have not been under-reported. Indeed, let's say the people you want to believe are right, and deaths have been over-reported by, say, 10%.

Congratulations, rocket! You can celebrate only 82K+ being killed by something Trump and Vice President Hannity called "just the flu" and Limbaugh called "the common cold." A mere 82K. And mostly old people, so who cares? You win!

Now, doc, you are free to go back to enthusiastically supporting a president who less than 3 months ago was boasting that U.S. coronavirus deaths would be "close to zero within days," who two months ago was counting on a "miracle" to make the virus magically disappear, and who last month was pushing his medical people to explore the benefits of injecting Lysol into the human body.

Because ... well ... science!

3 months ago Fauci was laying at the idea and saying it would be silly to require masks. 

Because....well.....science

[ZiggysFryBoy]

3 months ago Fauci was laying at the idea and saying it would be silly to require masks. 

Because....well.....science

Thou shall not question the well read blogger.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

3 months ago Fauci was laying at the idea and saying it would be silly to require masks. 

Because....well.....science

I love the idea that no one can ever make a mistake or revisit a position based on new information.  And if they do, that means that everything they have ever said previously is therefore invalid.

[pacearrow02]

It's important to look at why they made corrections. For Pennsylvania, they had decided to use the model that most of the industrialized world uses, because it is more accurate and allows researchers to better track cases. They had decided to include deaths that were probable COVID, so lets say a person dies at home of double pneumonia, but had never been tested. Using a test here, is a waste of resources, it is almost certainly COVID, a clinical diagnosis is more than sufficient.

What happened after they did that, was there was extensive political pushback from the right, saying they were inflating numbers, trying to make Trump look bad. Based on political pressure, they removed the probable cases. That political pressure made it harder to track cases, and makes us undercount compared to how most of the industrial world counts numbers.

A similar story can be held for Colorado. Neither was a case where they were simply correcting for "errors." They were making changes under political pressure, to change to a system that intentionally undercounts compared to the rest of the world.

Do you think that is a good thing?

After seeing the way posters here and many media outlets have weaponized the death toll to induce panic/fear, yes I think a more accurate accounting of Covid deaths is important.

[MUfan12]

The days of having large churches with everyone packed closely together for worship needs to be put on hold for at least a little while until there is more confidence it can be done safely.

The cluster of Catholic churches that serve Downtown/East Side/Riverwest have decided to delay opening, even though the Archdiocese has given them the okay.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

After seeing the way posters here and many media outlets have weaponized the death toll to induce panic/fear, yes I think a more accurate accounting of Covid deaths is important.

Wow.  Pointing out that errors on how this has been handled...you know...holding elected officials accountable...is now "weaponizing the death toll."

Absolutely amazing how much people are willing to let things slide when its "their guy."

[pacearrow02]

I love the idea that no one can ever make a mistake or revisit a position based on new information.  And if they do, that means that everything they have ever said previously is therefore invalid.

I agree 100%.....I do not blame Fauci for saying that then nor do in fault him for saying there was no reason to believe it could be passed with human to human contact and the handful of other things he’s turned out to be wrong on as the pandemic evolved and we learned more about it.

That same attitude shouldn’t just be reserved for Fauci, Cuomo, and the 100s of other people who can look back wishing to change a thing or two in their local response to Covid.  Trump has been far from perfect in this but he seems to be the only one where perfection is expected and anything short of that makes his handling of this a complete failure. 

Everyone said from day 1 he should listen to the scientists.  Ironically, I think the biggest mistake he made was, from day 1 he was listening ONLY to his scientists.

[pacearrow02]

Wow.  Pointing out that errors on how this has been handled...you know...holding elected officials accountable...is now "weaponizing the death toll."

Absolutely amazing how much people are willing to let things slide when its "their guy."

Where did I mention Trump?  I don’t like how they’ve focused so much on the death number and not given broader context to it which has lead to a good chunk of our population being too afraid to leave their houses to even visit family and celebrate big life events.

Only someone who views everything through the lens of Trump would read my comment and reply the way you did.  TDS

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I agree 100%.....I do not blame Fauci for saying that then nor do in fault him for saying there was no reason to believe it could be passed with human to human contact and the handful of other things he’s turned out to be wrong on as the pandemic evolved and we learned more about it.

That same attitude shouldn’t just be reserved for Fauci, Cuomo, and the 100s of other people who can look back wishing to change a thing or two in their local response to Covid.  Trump has been far from perfect in this but he seems to be the only one where perfection is expected and anything short of that makes his handling of this a complete failure. 

Everyone said from day 1 he should listen to the scientists.  Ironically, I think the biggest mistake he made was, from day 1 he was listening ONLY to his scientists.

I hardly expect perfection from Trump. 

I expect consistency from him.  Consistency in messaging and action.  We're not even getting that.