MUScoop

MUScoop => The Superbar => COVID-19 => Topic started by: Benny B on January 27, 2020, 01:21:53 PM

Title: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on January 27, 2020, 01:21:53 PM

I once knew a few ladies who regularly came down with Coronavirus, but at least they never got scurvy.


Honest question: Theoretically, does US Immigration/Customs maintain records of persons entering the US by country/city of origin?  If not, the airlines would have these records, and you would think they would be happy to turn these over to the CDC in the interest of a potential public health emergency.

So the question is, why wouldn't the CDC immediately deploy field personnel to be in contact with every person in the U.S. who has traveled to Wuhan (or any other hot spots in China) over the past 4-6 weeks?  I don't think we're talking 10's of thousands of people here, so logistically, they should have the resources to do so, and frankly, I don't think most people of sound mind would question the justification... any virologist will tell you that it's not nuclear weapons, guns, or Putin that poses the biggest risk to society.

I'm not saying sound the klaxons to round these people up or put them in quarantine immediately, but shouldn't the CDC at least be monitoring every one of these people for symptoms, keeping track of where else they've been and who they've contacted, etc.  It all seems very reactionary on the part of the CDC right now, and frankly, if this is SOP, if Coronavirus doesn't decimate the population, it's only a matter of time before Howie Mandel has the Earth all to himself.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on January 27, 2020, 02:43:37 PM

Quote from: Benny B on January 27, 2020, 01:21:53 PM

I once knew a few ladies who regularly came down with Coronavirus, but at least they never got scurvy.


Honest question: Theoretically, does US Immigration/Customs maintain records of persons entering the US by country/city of origin?  If not, the airlines would have these records, and you would think they would be happy to turn these over to the CDC in the interest of a potential public health emergency.

So the question is, why wouldn't the CDC immediately deploy field personnel to be in contact with every person in the U.S. who has traveled to Wuhan (or any other hot spots in China) over the past 4-6 weeks?  I don't think we're talking 10's of thousands of people here, so logistically, they should have the resources to do so, and frankly, I don't think most people of sound mind would question the justification... any virologist will tell you that it's not nuclear weapons, guns, or Putin that poses the biggest risk to society.

I'm not saying sound the klaxons to round these people up or put them in quarantine immediately, but shouldn't the CDC at least be monitoring every one of these people for symptoms, keeping track of where else they've been and who they've contacted, etc.  It all seems very reactionary on the part of the CDC right now, and frankly, if this is SOP, if Coronavirus doesn't decimate the population, it's only a matter of time before Howie Mandel has the Earth all to himself.

I'm hearing about this through a somewhat interesting channel because Purdue has several thousand students from China, many of who were home for the Holidays. They've been communicating with students about this, and have said they will immediately isolate anyone who shows up at the health center with symptoms who had been in China.  While nobody wants to induce panic or stigmatize anyone, it would seem that a more proactive approach along the lines you described would be appropriate:  find out if any students were in any of the "hot spots" and isolate them even if they are asymptomatic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on January 27, 2020, 02:44:26 PM

Treat it with a lime virus.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: lawdog77 on January 27, 2020, 03:41:41 PM

Quote from: tower912 on January 27, 2020, 02:44:26 PM

Treat it with a lime virus.

i was thinking eat some nachos

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on January 27, 2020, 04:12:35 PM

C'mon guys. Let us at least have a few moments to enjoy our panic.

I'm still in my bunker to protect myself from the birds (flu) and the bees (killers).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on January 27, 2020, 04:57:17 PM

I'll tell you what I know....

The CDC is very good at what they do.  Most of that is in coordination with state level Public Heath departments.  You won't hear much about either doing anything.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on January 27, 2020, 05:47:30 PM

Yeah, if you want doom, I don't think the Coronavirus is going to cut it.


(https://i.redd.it/3gc9lhqizbd41.jpg)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on January 27, 2020, 05:55:44 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on January 27, 2020, 05:47:30 PM

Yeah, if you want doom, I don't think the Coronavirus is going to cut it.


(https://i.redd.it/3gc9lhqizbd41.jpg)

Wow. Didn’t realize that Bird Flu is that deadly.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on January 27, 2020, 06:09:43 PM

Quote from: Benny B on January 27, 2020, 01:21:53 PM

I once knew a few ladies who regularly came down with Coronavirus, but at least they never got scurvy.


Honest question: Theoretically, does US Immigration/Customs maintain records of persons entering the US by country/city of origin?  If not, the airlines would have these records, and you would think they would be happy to turn these over to the CDC in the interest of a potential public health emergency.

So the question is, why wouldn't the CDC immediately deploy field personnel to be in contact with every person in the U.S. who has traveled to Wuhan (or any other hot spots in China) over the past 4-6 weeks?  I don't think we're talking 10's of thousands of people here, so logistically, they should have the resources to do so, and frankly, I don't think most people of sound mind would question the justification... any virologist will tell you that it's not nuclear weapons, guns, or Putin that poses the biggest risk to society.

I'm not saying sound the klaxons to round these people up or put them in quarantine immediately, but shouldn't the CDC at least be monitoring every one of these people for symptoms, keeping track of where else they've been and who they've contacted, etc.  It all seems very reactionary on the part of the CDC right now, and frankly, if this is SOP, if Coronavirus doesn't decimate the population, it's only a matter of time before Howie Mandel has the Earth all to himself.

I would be extremely impressed if the CDC had the resources/personnel to perform this action.

I can't say I've actually looked at budgets or employment numbers, but it sure appears as though we, as a federal government, are lessening resources toward science/regulatory agencies.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on January 27, 2020, 06:11:50 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on January 27, 2020, 05:47:30 PM

Yeah, if you want doom, I don't think the Coronavirus is going to cut it.

I've been thinking about this a lot when reading the number of confirmed cases vs deaths. Its reassuring. At the same time though, isn't the fatality rate sufficient to throw a real kink into modern society suprisingly low? I tried searching for an article I read awhile back about this, and couldn't find it, but I thought I read that widespread transmission combined with death rates in the low-mid single digits could effectively shut down society as we know it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on January 27, 2020, 06:13:10 PM

Quote from: MUBurrow on January 27, 2020, 06:11:50 PM

I've been thinking about this a lot when reading the number of confirmed cases vs deaths. Its reassuring. At the same time though, isn't the fatality rate sufficient to throw a real kink into modern society suprisingly low? I tried searching for an article I read awhile back about this, and couldn't find it, but I thought I read that widespread transmission combined with death rates in the low-mid single digits could effectively shut down society as we know it.

Plus, do you think China is releasing truthful numbers?

When the virus was first becoming obvious to the public, their response was to silence any reports.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on January 27, 2020, 06:20:32 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on January 27, 2020, 06:13:10 PM

Plus, do you think China is releasing truthful numbers?

When the virus was first becoming obvious to the public, their response was to silence any reports.

Yeah, it will be really interesting to see what happens with the death rates related to cases outside of China.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on January 27, 2020, 09:21:52 PM

I tend to not get overly concerned about these things. My advice to my daughter at Purdue: “Wash your hands a lot and don’t make out with anyone who was recently in China.”

Last year 57000 people in this country died from the flu. I’d venture a guess that this virus - as bad as it seems to be - will not even remotely approach that. People should wash their hands. That’s good advice even when there is not some scary new virus from China that is unlikely to even infect as many people in the USA as die every year from the flu.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on January 27, 2020, 09:35:43 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on January 27, 2020, 05:47:30 PM

Yeah, if you want doom, I don't think the Coronavirus is going to cut it.


(https://i.redd.it/3gc9lhqizbd41.jpg)

Cool graphic if you believe the reports out of China.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on January 27, 2020, 09:50:19 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on January 27, 2020, 05:47:30 PM

Yeah, if you want doom, I don't think the Coronavirus is going to cut it.


(https://i.redd.it/3gc9lhqizbd41.jpg)

A virus that has been known only for a matter of weeks on a chart alongside diseases that have been studied for decades.  Yeah... I see nothing wrong there. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on January 27, 2020, 09:54:00 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on January 27, 2020, 05:47:30 PM

Yeah, if you want doom, I don't think the Coronavirus is going to cut it.


(https://i.redd.it/3gc9lhqizbd41.jpg)

As I look at that, I’m reminded of something I didn’t know until just a few years ago: rabies is some serious sh*t. If you’re symptomatic, you’re gonna die. I never realized.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorFan on January 27, 2020, 09:57:32 PM

Based on the way China works, if they're reporting anything the real numbers are 10-100x what's being reported. 
Slow incubation period makes it harder to catch.

The difference, however, is in quality of medical care.  In China, a far higher percentage will die than in other countries where there is quality medical care available.  Based on reports from Singapore, which is already reacting strongly despite their small quantity of 5 cases, early detection and quality care make the virus survivable.

Also, it's hard to understand the level of filth and bacteria that exist in the central markets of chinese cities.  The people that work there would live in housing that doesn't even have warm water.  1-2 showers per winter would be a lot.  They don't change clothes.  It's really a breeding ground.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on January 27, 2020, 10:15:52 PM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on January 27, 2020, 09:54:00 PM

As I look at that, I’m reminded of something I didn’t know until just a few years ago: rabies is some serious sh*t. If you’re symptomatic, you’re gonna die. I never realized.

Yeah I think there is ONE survivor... fairly recent and her life is a total mess because of the rabies.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on January 27, 2020, 10:19:35 PM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on January 27, 2020, 09:21:52 PM

I tend to not get overly concerned about these things. My advice to my daughter at Purdue: “Wash your hands a lot and don’t make out with anyone who was recently in China.”

What if he (or she) is a crazy, rich Asian?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on January 27, 2020, 10:30:38 PM

Quote from: MU82 on January 27, 2020, 10:19:35 PM

What if he (or she) is a crazy, rich Asian?

(https://media.giphy.com/media/VGoZVlR9naOZCiRLSy/giphy.gif)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on January 28, 2020, 08:30:24 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on January 27, 2020, 10:15:52 PM

Yeah I think there is ONE survivor... fairly recent and her life is a total mess because of the rabies.

I learned about rabies several years ago from a good friend.  He and his family had been on vacation at a lake house and awoke in the morning to find a bat in the house.  All the bedrooms were open.  They didn't catch the bat for testing.  Even though nobody had any particular reason to believe they had been bitten, scratched, etc., the medical recommendation was that all six of them receive the vaccine. It wasn't mandatory, but he was ultimately persuaded when the doctor told him, "If if was my family, I'd do it" because if symptoms develop, it's too late.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on January 28, 2020, 09:04:04 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on January 27, 2020, 10:15:52 PM

Yeah I think there is ONE survivor... fairly recent and her life is a total mess because of the rabies.

There are some organizations doing great work to help.

(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0250/1217/4900/products/download-1_620x.jpg?v=1572164335)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Sir Lawrence on January 28, 2020, 09:48:50 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on January 27, 2020, 10:15:52 PM

Yeah I think there is ONE survivor... fairly recent and her life is a total mess because of the rabies.

Not quite a total mess.  She went through hell and back during her recovery, but is doing fairly well now:

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/health/2016/03/29/motherhood-is-latest-milestone-for-woman-who-survived-rabies/84941662/

The odd thing about how she was bitten:  taking a bat out of church to "save" it.  Parents, don't let your daughters grow up to be bat rescuers!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on January 28, 2020, 09:55:36 AM

Quote from: Sir Lawrence on January 28, 2020, 09:48:50 AM

Not quite a total mess.  She went through hell and back during her recovery, but is doing fairly well now:

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/health/2016/03/29/motherhood-is-latest-milestone-for-woman-who-survived-rabies/84941662/

The odd thing about how she was bitten:  taking a bat out of church to "save" it.  Parents, don't let your daughters grow up to be bat rescuers!

Thank you for posting that.  I see from that article that there are now 10 survivors.  So, it's still pretty dire, but it looks like treatment is developing.  I hadn't realized that there was a Milwaukee connection.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on January 28, 2020, 11:58:16 AM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on January 28, 2020, 08:30:24 AM

I learned about rabies several years ago from a good friend.  He and his family had been on vacation at a lake house and awoke in the morning to find a bat in the house.  All the bedrooms were open.  They didn't catch the bat for testing.  Even though nobody had any particular reason to believe they had been bitten, scratched, etc., the medical recommendation was that all six of them receive the vaccine. It wasn't mandatory, but he was ultimately persuaded when the doctor told him, "If if was my family, I'd do it" because if symptoms develop, it's too late.

Exact same thing happened at a co-worker's home a few years back.  What was most surprising is he showed us the hospital bill: a cool quarter-mil for his family of five ($50k each).  Initially, I thought that was stupid and a waste of money considering that a fraction of 1 percent of all bats have rabies (there are statistics where the percentage is greater, perhaps as high as 10%, but these are percentages of weak or sick bats targeted for testing).  But in the remote chance you were exposed, death is virtually assured.  So it's pretty much exactly what health insurance is for.

Evidently the "post-incident" prophylaxis is a completely different formula than the typical vaccinations animals receive and has an extremely short shelf life.  Either that or Martin Shkreli must own the company that produces it.

Moral of story: If you find a bat in your home... DON'T LET IT ESCAPE.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on January 28, 2020, 02:04:23 PM

I went through the rabies protocol after the Bradley Bat game. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on January 28, 2020, 02:54:34 PM

Miami of Ohio postpones two basketball games over concerns two students may have coronavirus.

https://www.si.com/college/2020/01/28/miami-ohio-basketball-games-canceled-coronavirus?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&xid=socialflow_twitter_si&utm_campaign=sinow

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on January 28, 2020, 04:34:12 PM

Not Coronavirus, but before my Asia trip and mostly related to India I got vaccines for:
Japanese Encephalitis
Typhoid
Cholera
a Polio booster
a MMR booster
Rabies
and the latest flu vaccine.

Work was paying and I wasn't going to mess around.

 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Goose on January 28, 2020, 06:47:32 PM

IMO, the Chinese government is hiding something or overreacting. Thus far not even close to being as deadly as SARS, yet they sounded the alarm. There is more to this story to come, I believe. Something does not add to me.

I traveled throughout the SARS outbreak and few clients get rattled. I fielded a dozen calls today from nervous clients. China was rocked by trade war and causing alarm has caught my attention. There is something fishy in this whole outbreak and believe it will cause serious short term supply chain issues.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on January 28, 2020, 06:56:03 PM

Quote from: Goose on January 28, 2020, 06:47:32 PM

IMO, the Chinese government is hiding something or overreacting. Thus far not even close to being as deadly as SARS, yet they sounded the alarm. There is more to this story to come, I believe. Something does not add to me.

I traveled throughout the SARS outbreak and few clients get rattled. I fielded a dozen calls today from nervous clients. China was rocked by trade war and causing alarm has caught my attention. There is something fishy in this whole outbreak and believe it will cause serious short term supply chain issues.

Thanks Goose.  I was thinking that China's reaction doesn't seem to fit the circumstances.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Goose on January 28, 2020, 07:07:37 PM

Fluff

I am torn on the response. I want to think it is their attempt to be transparent and behave like a first world country, but I am skeptical. I encourage anyone with an interest in world events to watch this closely.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on January 28, 2020, 10:16:34 PM

Quote from: Goose on January 28, 2020, 06:47:32 PM

There is something fishy in this whole outbreak and believe it will cause serious short term supply chain issues.

Fishy or not, supply chain will be hurting.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Goose on January 28, 2020, 11:57:51 PM

rocky

Do you have inside info on the situation? If so, please share. Have you heard about meaningful delays in CNY return? Are ports to open upon return? Will future domestic travel be further hindered? Any insight would be appreciated.

Unfortunately I will be up much of the night trying to get additional info for my clients. Based off your post, it sounds like you must know something.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on January 29, 2020, 01:45:59 AM

Quote from: Goose on January 28, 2020, 11:57:51 PM

Based off your post, it sounds like you must know something.

Sorry goose, got on a flight right after my post.  Sorry to disappoint, I only know that you can't tell that many people to stay home and not affect production and productivity.

Good luck in your fact finding - sounds like information out of there is being heavily scrutinized.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Goose on January 29, 2020, 06:01:30 AM

rocky

All good. Arby’s coupons for everyone!!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on January 29, 2020, 07:15:07 AM

Quote from: Goose on January 28, 2020, 06:47:32 PM

IMO, the Chinese government is hiding something or overreacting. Thus far not even close to being as deadly as SARS, yet they sounded the alarm. There is more to this story to come, I believe. Something does not add to me.

I traveled throughout the SARS outbreak and few clients get rattled. I fielded a dozen calls today from nervous clients. China was rocked by trade war and causing alarm has caught my attention. There is something fishy in this whole outbreak and believe it will cause serious short term supply chain issues.

Goose, a big difference in this virus and SARS is that this virus is contagious during the incubation period (before symptoms show up), that incubation period is 14-days. So for 2-weeks infected individuals are walking around as infectious agents. On top of that, some reports are saying it is contagious on contact.

Those two combined, if true, make this very dangerous, even with lower fatality rates. Honestly, if you were to weaponize a virus, these are two of the traits you would want, the other, being a higher fatality rate. Fortunately, all three are not at play here, but there could be fear of mutations making it more deadly.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on January 29, 2020, 09:16:54 AM

My company's China plant is on Chinese New Year shut down and from what I understand the shut down has been extended to at least Feb 7.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Goose on January 29, 2020, 09:36:31 AM

MU Fan

Where is your factory located? Most of the workers local or transplants from the north?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on January 29, 2020, 02:09:02 PM

Quote from: Goose on January 29, 2020, 09:36:31 AM

MU Fan

Where is your factory located? Most of the workers local or transplants from the north?

Zhongshan right near Macau.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on January 29, 2020, 11:12:29 PM

Quote from: forgetful on January 29, 2020, 07:15:07 AM

Honestly, if you were to weaponize a virus, these are two of the traits you would want, the other, being a higher fatality rate. Fortunately, all three are not at play here, but there could be fear of mutations making it more deadly.

Interesting.  That might explain all the secrecy and misinformation early on. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on January 30, 2020, 04:46:33 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on January 29, 2020, 09:16:54 AM

My company's China plant is on Chinese New Year shut down and from what I understand the shut down has been extended to at least Feb 7.

From what I have heard on NPR that seems to be somewhat typical.  I've also heard that this virus won't even reach peak infection rate until April.  So we have quite a bit of time to let it ride.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on January 30, 2020, 07:02:55 AM

Quote from: forgetful on January 29, 2020, 07:15:07 AM

Goose, a big difference in this virus and SARS is that this virus is contagious during the incubation period (before symptoms show up), that incubation period is 14-days. So for 2-weeks infected individuals are walking around as infectious agents. On top of that, some reports are saying it is contagious on contact.

Those two combined, if true, make this very dangerous, even with lower fatality rates. Honestly, if you were to weaponize a virus, these are two of the traits you would want, the other, being a higher fatality rate. Fortunately, all three are not at play here, but there could be fear of mutations making it more deadly.

I highlight that because, based upon what I've read, it's not clear yet that it is true that it can be spread before the patient is symptomatic. A Chinese official reported that, but others seem to question whether there is evidence to support the claim.  I know it's being reported in many corners as an established fact.  Let's hope it turns out to be incorrect.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on January 30, 2020, 07:33:26 AM

So first cases in India and Philippines... 81,000 suspected sick... reports of Chinese cremating dead before identifying them.

Still not concerned?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on January 30, 2020, 08:54:12 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on January 30, 2020, 07:33:26 AM

So first cases in India and Philippines... 81,000 suspected sick... reports of Chinese cremating dead before identifying them.

Still not concerned?

I guess it depends on what you mean by "concerned".  I am concerned that a lot of people are getting sick and probably many will die.  To me, that's just a natural human concern. I am not particularly concerned that this virus will have a significant impact in the United States. So, if you're asking about the first of those, then yes, I am concerned. If you're asking about the second (which, in my opinion, is what a lot of people are asking), then no, I'm not concerned.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Goose on January 30, 2020, 09:39:06 AM

I am quite concerned, both in regards to human life and economic impact. I mentioned a couple days of ago the possibility of the Chinese government not sharing all info on this virus and I believe that to be the case. I have been constant contact with our staff (over ten) on a daily basis and all the Chinese nationals continue to tell me this is not a big problem and the government has done a great job and everything under control. I work/communicate with these folks 365 days a year and know them well. IMO, they are blindly following the leader.  Our lead Guangzhou manager (Hong Kong native) has a much higher sense of concern. She is not someone that rattles easily and her response is much more of concern.

In regards to economic impact, a lot of very big decisions have been made over the past week over this virus that will have a real economic impact globally. Aside from supply chain disruptions, the response of airlines, border closing, visa restrictions indicate to me that someone has insider info. These decisions are not made lightly and I believe it is indicated that this virus is more severe than being reported.

I believe the upcoming weeks is going to be President Xi's biggest challenge to date. If this virus continues to gain steam there is the chance of social unrest. There is a shortage of medical supplies and cabin fever is setting in. We have seen the young people in Hong Kong rally in an attempt for a better HK and better life and at some point that was/is going to happen in China. Not sure if this could be the tipping point, but I believe there is real chance of it.

I make a living almost solely in China and am more concerned about the big picture fallout than my own business. FYI--I am quite concerned on how our business will navigate the upcoming weeks/months, but more confident in our ability to be nimble than this serious issue being contained.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Macallan 18 on January 30, 2020, 09:51:59 AM

Good thing Tony Romo is staffing the Corona hotline to assure people everything is fine.

A Disturbing Number of People Think Coronavirus Is Related to Corona Beer -
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qjdvvd/a-disturbing-number-of-people-think-coronavirus-is-related-to-corona-beer
 (https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qjdvvd/a-disturbing-number-of-people-think-coronavirus-is-related-to-corona-beer)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on January 30, 2020, 11:15:45 AM

Quote from: Goose on January 30, 2020, 09:39:06 AM

I am quite concerned, both in regards to human life and economic impact. I mentioned a couple days of ago the possibility of the Chinese government not sharing all info on this virus and I believe that to be the case. I have been constant contact with our staff (over ten) on a daily basis and all the Chinese nationals continue to tell me this is not a big problem and the government has done a great job and everything under control. I work/communicate with these folks 365 days a year and know them well. IMO, they are blindly following the leader.  Our lead Guangzhou manager (Hong Kong native) has a much higher sense of concern. She is not someone that rattles easily and her response is much more of concern.

In regards to economic impact, a lot of very big decisions have been made over the past week over this virus that will have a real economic impact globally. Aside from supply chain disruptions, the response of airlines, border closing, visa restrictions indicate to me that someone has insider info. These decisions are not made lightly and I believe it is indicated that this virus is more severe than being reported.

I believe the upcoming weeks is going to be President Xi's biggest challenge to date. If this virus continues to gain steam there is the chance of social unrest. There is a shortage of medical supplies and cabin fever is setting in. We have seen the young people in Hong Kong rally in an attempt for a better HK and better life and at some point that was/is going to happen in China. Not sure if this could be the tipping point, but I believe there is real chance of it.

I make a living almost solely in China and am more concerned about the big picture fallout than my own business. FYI--I am quite concerned on how our business will navigate the upcoming weeks/months, but more confident in our ability to be nimble than this serious issue being contained.

This sort of stuff is what I meant with my comment.  Sure loss of life may be globally insignificant, but the financial losses may be felt for months. 

What's that famous saying?  Civilization is only nine meals away from anarchy?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on January 30, 2020, 11:19:17 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on January 30, 2020, 11:15:45 AM

What's that famous saying?  Civilization is only nine meals away from anarchy?

Yep, just past the Kwik Trip on the right.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jsglow on January 31, 2020, 08:12:21 AM

Guess you businessmen ain't going to China anytime soon.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on January 31, 2020, 08:37:54 AM

Quote from: Goose on January 30, 2020, 09:39:06 AM

I am quite concerned, both in regards to human life and economic impact. I mentioned a couple days of ago the possibility of the Chinese government not sharing all info on this virus and I believe that to be the case. I have been constant contact with our staff (over ten) on a daily basis and all the Chinese nationals continue to tell me this is not a big problem and the government has done a great job and everything under control. I work/communicate with these folks 365 days a year and know them well. IMO, they are blindly following the leader.  Our lead Guangzhou manager (Hong Kong native) has a much higher sense of concern. She is not someone that rattles easily and her response is much more of concern.

In regards to economic impact, a lot of very big decisions have been made over the past week over this virus that will have a real economic impact globally. Aside from supply chain disruptions, the response of airlines, border closing, visa restrictions indicate to me that someone has insider info. These decisions are not made lightly and I believe it is indicated that this virus is more severe than being reported.

I believe the upcoming weeks is going to be President Xi's biggest challenge to date. If this virus continues to gain steam there is the chance of social unrest. There is a shortage of medical supplies and cabin fever is setting in. We have seen the young people in Hong Kong rally in an attempt for a better HK and better life and at some point that was/is going to happen in China. Not sure if this could be the tipping point, but I believe there is real chance of it.

I make a living almost solely in China and am more concerned about the big picture fallout than my own business. FYI--I am quite concerned on how our business will navigate the upcoming weeks/months, but more confident in our ability to be nimble than this serious issue being contained.

Wow, that's intense, Goose.

I hope it ends up not being as bad as some fear, and that it doesn't disrupt your situation too much.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on January 31, 2020, 08:15:26 PM

Worldwide Tracker

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6 (https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6)

 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TallTitan34 on January 31, 2020, 10:08:04 PM

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/31/health/washington-coronavirus-study-nejm/index.html

I feel like this information from US doctors is already more than anything from China to date.

10,000 already dead in the US so far this season from the regular flu by the way.  Yet no one cares about that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on February 01, 2020, 12:19:12 AM

Quote from: TallTitan34 on January 31, 2020, 10:08:04 PM

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/31/health/washington-coronavirus-study-nejm/index.html

I feel like this information from US doctors is already more than anything from China to date.

10,000 already dead in the US so far this season from the regular flu by the way.  Yet no one cares about that.

I bet if you look at a cross-section of that 10,000, you’re going to see a shiite ton of candles on the birthday cakes and a whole slew of other complicating diseases... not a bunch of otherwise healthy 30 and 40-somethings. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TallTitan34 on February 01, 2020, 02:41:35 AM

Quote from: Benny B on February 01, 2020, 12:19:12 AM

I bet if you look at a cross-section of that 10,000, you’re going to see a shiite ton of candles on the birthday cakes and a whole slew of other complicating diseases... not a bunch of otherwise healthy 30 and 40-somethings.

Looking at US flu deaths from the 2017-18 flu season:
Age 0-4: 115
Age 5-17: 528
Age 18-49: 2,803
Age 50-64: 6,751
Age 65+: 50,903

I’m going to go out on a limb and say these numbers are higher for the regular flu in China.

So far the youngest (known) deaths with the coronavirus are a 36 year old and a 48 year old. Both of which are in China.

So far the fatality rate of the regular flu in the US is around 0.7%. The (known) fatality rate of the coronavirus in China is slightly over 2%.

I’m curious to see what the fatality rate outside China is with a larger sample size but I’m going to guess it will be lower than China’s and closer to that standard flu rate.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on February 01, 2020, 07:56:13 AM

Quote from: TallTitan34 on January 31, 2020, 10:08:04 PM

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/31/health/washington-coronavirus-study-nejm/index.html

I feel like this information from US doctors is already more than anything from China to date.

10,000 already dead in the US so far this season from the regular flu by the way.  Yet no one cares about that.

My wife is a pediatric nurse and we were just talking about this yesterday.

Just this past week, a kid who had been perfectly healthy died from the flu. Not some fancy super-virus, but the flu. Amazing that could happen in 2020.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 01, 2020, 08:59:41 AM

Quote from: TallTitan34 on February 01, 2020, 02:41:35 AM

Looking at US flu deaths from the 2017-18 flu season:
Age 0-4: 115
Age 5-17: 528
Age 18-49: 2,803
Age 50-64: 6,751
Age 65+: 50,903

I’m going to go out on a limb and say these numbers are higher for the regular flu in China.

So far the youngest (known) deaths with the coronavirus are a 36 year old and a 48 year old. Both of which are in China.

So far the fatality rate of the regular flu in the US is around 0.7%. The (known) fatality rate of the coronavirus in China is slightly over 2%.

I’m curious to see what the fatality rate outside China is with a larger sample size but I’m going to guess it will be lower than China’s and closer to that standard flu rate.

If governments with actual data thought the way you did there wouldn't be closed borders in the East, and airlines would still be flying to China.

Influenza is no joke, and neither is this.

The real of the situation is that  we don't know enough (collectively) about the Coronavirus to be taking anything but extreme caution.  Not to mention, the possibility of mutations, or the ability to possibly become reinfected.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 01, 2020, 09:11:04 AM

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/31/health/washington-coronavirus-study-nejm/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/31/health/washington-coronavirus-study-nejm/index.html)

(CNN)Doctors have shared new details about the first case of Wuhan coronavirus in the United States in a paper published Friday in the New England Journal of Medicine.
In the new report, doctors describe how the man progressed from initially mild, nonspecific symptoms to pneumonia on the ninth day of his illness.

Top US infectious disease doctor says Wuhan coronavirus can spread even when people have no symptoms
'There's no doubt': Top US infectious disease doctor says Wuhan coronavirus can spread even when people have no symptoms
The patient -- a 35-year-old resident of Snohomish County, Washington, with no history of major health problems -- had returned from visiting family in Wuhan on January 15. He had not visited the seafood market where a number of early patients were initially linked, nor did he have any known contacts with sick people during his visit.

Still, the man had seen a health alert by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and decided to visit an urgent care clinic on January 19, at which point he had been coughing for four days.

Emphasis mine.  The problem in the USA is that we have a culture of just fighting through illnesses and continuing to go to work or school.  We also have a culture of overreaction.  I hope people can moderate their behavior if there is an uptick in cases... and I suspect there will be.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on February 01, 2020, 09:58:56 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 01, 2020, 09:11:04 AM

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/31/health/washington-coronavirus-study-nejm/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/31/health/washington-coronavirus-study-nejm/index.html)

(CNN)Doctors have shared new details about the first case of Wuhan coronavirus in the United States in a paper published Friday in the New England Journal of Medicine.
In the new report, doctors describe how the man progressed from initially mild, nonspecific symptoms to pneumonia on the ninth day of his illness.

Top US infectious disease doctor says Wuhan coronavirus can spread even when people have no symptoms
'There's no doubt': Top US infectious disease doctor says Wuhan coronavirus can spread even when people have no symptoms
The patient -- a 35-year-old resident of Snohomish County, Washington, with no history of major health problems -- had returned from visiting family in Wuhan on January 15. He had not visited the seafood market where a number of early patients were initially linked, nor did he have any known contacts with sick people during his visit.

Still, the man had seen a health alert by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and decided to visit an urgent care clinic on January 19, at which point he had been coughing for four days.

Emphasis mine.  The problem in the USA is that we have a culture of just fighting through illnesses and continuing to go to work or school.  We also have a culture of overreaction.  I hope people can moderate their behavior if there is an uptick in cases... and I suspect there will be.

We also have a culture where a trip to the doctor or ER will bankrupt you, so many will avoid any treatment. They will also attend work/school, because many can be fired for missing work once. That means if this starts to spread in the US, it could get ugly quick.

Also note, that the case in the NEJM article, the young individual survived, but only with over a weak in an ICU. If we have 10's of thousands infected, we cannot handle that kind of case load with an ICU level care.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on February 01, 2020, 10:09:38 AM

https://www.yahoo.com/news/chinese-doctors-released-chest-x-012400585.html

Acting more like SARS and MERS. Pneumonia is the real threat it looks like.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on February 01, 2020, 10:20:55 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 01, 2020, 08:59:41 AM

If governments with actual data thought the way you did there wouldn't be closed borders in the East, and airlines would still be flying to China.

Influenza is no joke, and neither is this.

The real of the situation is that  we don't know enough (collectively) about the Coronavirus to be taking anything but extreme caution.  Not to mention, the possibility of mutations, or the ability to possibly become reinfected.

BS. Fear-mongering at its finest. I bet you vaccinate too.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on February 01, 2020, 11:07:38 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on February 01, 2020, 10:20:55 AM

BS. Fear-mongering at its finest. I bet you vaccinate too.

Having a hard time determining whether this is sarcasm or not.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on February 01, 2020, 11:08:29 AM

It is clearly sarcasm

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 01, 2020, 11:21:56 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on February 01, 2020, 10:20:55 AM

BS. Fear-mongering at its finest. I bet you vaccinate too.

I don't vaccinate for myself, I vaccinate for others.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html)

Tower seems to think you're being sarcastic, but I can't tell.  There are a lot of people that think that when they are "sick" it is the flu.  When it really should be referred to as a cold. 

If you've been sick for a day or been feeling 'bad' for a couple of days, that isn't influenza.  And honestly, confusing the common cold with influenza is something we need to change in the US.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: SERocks on February 01, 2020, 12:16:28 PM

This.

Quote from: forgetful on February 01, 2020, 09:58:56 AM

We also have a culture where a trip to the doctor or ER will bankrupt you, so many will avoid any treatment. They will also attend work/school, because many can be fired for missing work once.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on February 01, 2020, 06:28:25 PM

Quote from: tower912 on February 01, 2020, 11:08:29 AM

It is clearly sarcasm

I was 95% sure it was, did not seem like jesmu84, but sadly these days you can't be 100% certain regarding statements like that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on February 01, 2020, 10:52:29 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 01, 2020, 11:21:56 AM

I don't vaccinate for myself, I vaccinate for others.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html)

Tower seems to think you're being sarcastic, but I can't tell.  There are a lot of people that think that when they are "sick" it is the flu.  When it really should be referred to as a cold. 

If you've been sick for a day or been feeling 'bad' for a couple of days, that isn't influenza.  And honestly, confusing the common cold with influenza is something we need to change in the US.

This.  OMG, This.  I can’t tell you how many people I know who toss around the word ‘flu’ as a catch-all term like southerners do with “Coke”. 

The flu is influenza.  Not a cold, not PMS, not the sniffles, not a stomach bug.  (That’s right... the stomach flu is not influenza.)

I blame whoever came up with that Thera-Flu crap. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Cheeks on February 02, 2020, 02:49:27 AM

Quote from: MU82 on February 01, 2020, 07:56:13 AM

My wife is a pediatric nurse and we were just talking about this yesterday.

Just this past week, a kid who had been perfectly healthy died from the flu. Not some fancy super-virus, but the flu. Amazing that could happen in 2020.

End of the day not all drugs works for all people, and people do die....whether 2020 or 2050 there will still be deaths by people of common diseases.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on February 02, 2020, 07:15:49 AM

Quote from: Benny B on February 01, 2020, 10:52:29 PM

This.  OMG, This.  I can’t tell you how many people I know who toss around the word ‘flu’ as a catch-all term like southerners do with “Coke”. 

The flu is influenza.  Not a cold, not PMS, not the sniffles, not a stomach bug.  (That’s right... the stomach flu is not influenza.)

I blame whoever came up with that Thera-Flu crap. 

I probably miss a day a year because of a cough and a fever.  That's not the flu.

Last time I had the flu (about 8 years ago), I missed a week of work and slept the entire weekend after because i was so weak.  That's the last time I skipped a flu shot.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on February 02, 2020, 07:18:50 AM

Quote from: Benny B on February 01, 2020, 10:52:29 PM

This.  OMG, This.  I can’t tell you how many people I know who toss around the word ‘flu’ as a catch-all term like southerners do with “Coke”. 

The flu is influenza.  Not a cold, not PMS, not the sniffles, not a stomach bug.  (That’s right... the stomach flu is not influenza.)

I blame whoever came up with that Thera-Flu crap.

Eye blame Crean, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on February 02, 2020, 07:55:36 AM

Can I get a ruling on Fireball Flu? Is that influenza?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on February 02, 2020, 08:09:17 AM

This is a really interesting post on the statistics, from someone inside the field studying this coronavirus..

https://www.reddit.com/r/China_Flu/comments/exe552/coronavirus_faq_misconceptions_information_from_a/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on February 02, 2020, 01:48:20 PM

Some posters favorite Twitter account news source got banned for doxxing a Chinese scientist and spreading misinformation on the coronavirus.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on February 03, 2020, 08:04:52 AM

Just got off my weekly corporate sales call. 
The Zhongshan Plant Manager said everywhere in China is a ghost town.
Chinese police have road blocks everywhere to take temperatures and to find out where people are coming from / going to for those who venture outside.
Food delivery boys are keeping the country fed.  They are delivering non-stop to people.
Factories cannot reopen without government permission.  Those that do are fined heavily.
The Chinese government has an App where you can see where cases have been confirmed.  Plant Manager was surprised to see 8 cases within 1 suare kilometer of him in Guangzhou. 
He thinks factories will not reopen until Feb. 17.
Ports are closed and he suspects there is a backlog of freighters in the waters around Chinese ports.
Guangdong Province is closed.  They are not letting anyone in from outside until all is contained.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on February 03, 2020, 09:58:28 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 02, 2020, 08:09:17 AM

This is a really interesting post on the statistics, from someone inside the field studying this coronavirus..

https://www.reddit.com/r/China_Flu/comments/exe552/coronavirus_faq_misconceptions_information_from_a/

Perhaps the most significant takeaway from this is that the lag in the data being reported.  While there may not be a cover-up per se, reporting illnesses and confirming deaths from an illness does not happen in real time.  Frankly, it's damn near impossible to say how many people are infected and how many have died as of this very moment.

Fortunately, since the OP, it looks like the authorities have been taking appropriate measures to contain; unfortunately, I don't think China has seen the worst of it yet.  Let's hope China has this contained in Huabei province... last thing anyone needs is another hotspot popping up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: SERocks on February 04, 2020, 08:18:54 AM

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51364382?fbclid=IwAR0IchA6FA-SUwqUpHkmMDleeLcYNnO0mtopDCfgu2wIoiAU_Z8uttg0QWA

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on February 04, 2020, 08:40:32 AM

For me, this brings to mind the discussion a few years ago about electric cars.   Part of that was about driverless, shareable cars in urban areas.   Get into an autonomous pod, ride a couple of miles, get out, somebody else uses the autonomous pod.

  Who cleans the autonomous pods?   Same problem with taking public transportation of any kind.    Just like you don't know if the person standing next to you on the El has the latest virus, how will you know if a previous pod user had the coronavirus, or whatever the latest crisis bug du jour is?   
   China is shutting down public transportation.   Would the same have to happen to the autonomous pods?

Just something to mull over as we go through this pandemic and await the next.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Cheeks on February 04, 2020, 08:45:30 AM

Quote from: tower912 on February 04, 2020, 08:40:32 AM

For me, this brings to mind the discussion a few years ago about electric cars.   Part of that was about driverless, shareable cars in urban areas.   Get into an autonomous pod, ride a couple of miles, get out, somebody else uses the autonomous pod.

  Who cleans the autonomous pods?   Same problem with taking public transportation of any kind.    Just like you don't know if the person standing next to you on the El has the latest virus, how will you know if a previous pod user had the coronavirus, or whatever the latest crisis bug du jour is?   
   China is shutting down public transportation.   Would the same have to happen to the autonomous pods?

Just something to mull over as we go through this pandemic and await the next.

Yup.  I made that same argument here.  Especially when the car isn’t yours, people will shat all over it like they do busses, trains, etc.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on February 04, 2020, 08:55:54 AM

Quote from: tower912 on February 04, 2020, 08:40:32 AM

  Who cleans the autonomous pods?  Would the same have to happen to the autonomous pods?

All transportation vehicles are cleaned by the same group: the owners.    Not sure how that's a mystery.   These "pods" will need maintenance, and the owners will do that.   They'll be "just as" clean as buses and subways.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on February 04, 2020, 08:57:40 AM

That isn't comforting.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 04, 2020, 09:29:49 AM

Quote from: tower912 on February 04, 2020, 08:57:40 AM

That isn't comforting.

It should be.  More than likely, these shared cars will be made of easily cleanable materials... like the subway is.  Plus, you know there will be a rating system much like Uber, and one of the parts will be cleanliness.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on February 04, 2020, 01:28:18 PM

Quote from: tower912 on February 04, 2020, 08:40:32 AM

For me, this brings to mind the discussion a few years ago about electric cars.   Part of that was about driverless, shareable cars in urban areas.   Get into an autonomous pod, ride a couple of miles, get out, somebody else uses the autonomous pod.

  Who cleans the autonomous pods?   Same problem with taking public transportation of any kind.    Just like you don't know if the person standing next to you on the El has the latest virus, how will you know if a previous pod user had the coronavirus, or whatever the latest crisis bug du jour is?   
   China is shutting down public transportation.   Would the same have to happen to the autonomous pods?

Just something to mull over as we go through this pandemic and await the next.

Simple solution, make all autonomous pods equipped with UV-lighting. After each ride, each pod can be sterilized by running the UV lighting for 10 minutes. Hurts throughput a bit, but no worries about disease.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on February 04, 2020, 01:44:56 PM

I like it.   The price in each unit just went up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on February 04, 2020, 03:36:19 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 04, 2020, 09:29:49 AM

It should be.  More than likely, these shared cars will be made of easily cleanable materials... like the subway is.  Plus, you know there will be a rating system much like Uber, and one of the parts will be cleanliness.

Yeah, the subway.  The bastion of cleanliness and freedom from germs.    :o ::) :o ::) :o ::)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 04, 2020, 05:43:32 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on February 04, 2020, 03:36:19 PM

Yeah, the subway.  The bastion of cleanliness and freedom from germs.    :o ::) :o ::) :o ::)

Ha, yes.  But it is technically easy to clean.  :P

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 06, 2020, 08:14:12 PM

Reports that over 2,000 in India are now infected.

Report came out of the blue. 

This is going to get much worse before it gets better.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on February 06, 2020, 09:00:41 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 06, 2020, 08:14:12 PM

Reports that over 2,000 in India are now infected.

Report came out of the blue. 

This is going to get much worse before it gets better.

Tried to find a link for that .. source?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on February 06, 2020, 11:55:10 PM

The doctor who made this public in China has died from the disease - a 34-year old healthy man.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 07, 2020, 04:34:58 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 06, 2020, 09:00:41 PM

Tried to find a link for that .. source?

Sorry, I should have written 'suspected'.

https://www.aninews.in/news/national/general-news/2826-suspected-coronavirus-cases-being-monitored-in-kerala-says-health-minister20200206223440/ (https://www.aninews.in/news/national/general-news/2826-suspected-coronavirus-cases-being-monitored-in-kerala-says-health-minister20200206223440/)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Goose on February 07, 2020, 06:36:32 AM

Very anxious to see how much movement is made on getting people back to their work locations. Work is set to begin on Monday and millions, in theory, should be on their way or getting ready to travel and this will be a nervous time in China. I have been under the belief that is a far more serious issue and still feel that way.
Aside from lives, which is the sad part, potential economic fallout could be staggering. I believe the stock market has completely discounted a potentially very, very, very big Black Swan.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on February 07, 2020, 06:58:07 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 04, 2020, 05:43:32 PM

Ha, yes.  But it is technically easy to clean.  :P

Just like the streets of SF, Seattle, LA, well basically most major cities of california, NYC, Austin, tx, etc. these areas have become Petri dishes of disease that we had once eradicated.  Everyone, including the so called environmentalists should be appalled at the amount of waste being washed into our waterways and or spread through the air, on our shoes, etc.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on February 07, 2020, 08:19:17 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 07, 2020, 04:34:58 AM

Sorry, I should have written 'suspected'.

https://www.aninews.in/news/national/general-news/2826-suspected-coronavirus-cases-being-monitored-in-kerala-says-health-minister20200206223440/ (https://www.aninews.in/news/national/general-news/2826-suspected-coronavirus-cases-being-monitored-in-kerala-says-health-minister20200206223440/)

“Service Error”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on February 07, 2020, 08:57:53 AM

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on February 07, 2020, 08:19:17 AM

“Service Error”

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/third-coronavirus-case-reported-from-india/articleshow/73895001.cms

3 confirmed, about 2000 under observation.  I've seen that number as high as 2800

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Cheeks on February 07, 2020, 09:00:54 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on February 07, 2020, 06:58:07 AM

Just like the streets of SF, Seattle, LA, well basically most major cities of california, NYC, Austin, tx, etc. these areas have become Petri dishes of disease that we had once eradicated.  Everyone, including the so called environmentalists should be appalled at the amount of waste being washed into our waterways and or spread through the air, on our shoes, etc.

Yup, we have diseases in Los Angeles and San Francisco now that were largely unseen for decades.....progress has a way of bringing things back sometimes.  A glorious time to be alive in California.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on February 07, 2020, 09:52:06 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on February 07, 2020, 06:58:07 AM

Just like the streets of SF, Seattle, LA, well basically most major cities of california, NYC, Austin, tx, etc. these areas have become Petri dishes of disease that we had once eradicated.  Everyone, including the so called environmentalists should be appalled at the amount of waste being washed into our waterways and or spread through the air, on our shoes, etc.

Rorschach?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on February 07, 2020, 09:54:23 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on February 07, 2020, 06:58:07 AM

Just like the streets of SF, Seattle, LA, well basically most major cities of california, NYC, Austin, tx, etc. these areas have become Petri dishes of disease that we had once eradicated.  Everyone, including the so called environmentalists should be appalled at the amount of waste being washed into our waterways and or spread through the air, on our shoes, etc.

I'd be interested on hearing why you think this is occurring more lately

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on February 07, 2020, 09:55:18 AM

It's all that swishing and spitting at dental offices, dammit!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 07, 2020, 10:34:30 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 07, 2020, 08:57:53 AM

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/third-coronavirus-case-reported-from-india/articleshow/73895001.cms

3 confirmed, about 2000 under observation.  I've seen that number as high as 2800

Just saw something saying that Kerala is walking back the numbers.  So that's great news.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 07, 2020, 10:36:53 AM

Quote from: Goose on February 07, 2020, 06:36:32 AM

Very anxious to see how much movement is made on getting people back to their work locations. Work is set to begin on Monday and millions, in theory, should be on their way or getting ready to travel and this will be a nervous time in China. I have been under the belief that is a far more serious issue and still feel that way.
Aside from lives, which is the sad part, potential economic fallout could be staggering. I believe the stock market has completely discounted a potentially very, very, very big Black Swan.

Absolutely.  I have serious doubts that people head back to work next week if they are in the affected zones.  The economic impact could be felt for some time depending on when this clears up.  SARS created a big dip, but had a quick recovery.  I'm not so sure the same will happen this time around.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on February 07, 2020, 12:04:15 PM

Quote from: MUBurrow on February 07, 2020, 09:52:06 AM

Rorschach?

Just the trolls way of injecting politics - railing against "liberal" cities.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on February 07, 2020, 12:57:03 PM

Quote from: Jockey on February 07, 2020, 12:04:15 PM

Just the trolls way of injecting politics - railing against "liberal" cities.

There are a lot of "liberal" cities in this country that dont have poop squads, needle squads, and all the other nastiness that SF has. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on February 07, 2020, 02:17:06 PM

By chance "The Great Influenza" came across my Audible this week, about 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic. Fascinating stuff about how that flu originated, spread, and burned through a society very poorly equipped to deal with it.

A lot of relevant information there.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on February 07, 2020, 03:10:08 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on February 07, 2020, 09:54:23 AM

I'd be interested on hearing why you think this is occurring more lately

i think some things are best kept to oneself cuz i don't see that as ending well.  let's just say we could use some improvement and allow some decency back in public circles...is it too much to ask not to pee and poop in the streets? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on February 07, 2020, 03:17:04 PM

Quote from: Jockey on February 07, 2020, 12:04:15 PM

Just the trolls way of injecting politics - railing against "liberal" cities.

another swing and a miss...nasty lil secret kickstand, i'd be railing against any city regardless of who is running it, if i have to throw my shoes out after a "walk in the park".  would you take your dog for a walk in that cesspool?  then bring him back into your house, let him jump onto your bed and lick your face?  that's if he doesn't end up with a needle stuck in his paw >:( 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on February 07, 2020, 03:19:58 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on February 07, 2020, 03:17:04 PM

another swing and a miss...nasty lil secret kickstand, i'd be railing against any city regardless of who is running it, if i have to throw my shoes out after a "walk in the park".  would you take your dog for a walk in that cesspool?  then bring him back into your house, let him jump onto your bed and lick your face?  that's if he doesn't end up with a needle stuck in his paw >:( 

I have walked around plenty of times in Seattle, San Francisco and Los Angeles, and would have no problem walking my dog in any of them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on February 07, 2020, 03:22:08 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on February 07, 2020, 03:17:04 PM

another swing and a miss...nasty lil secret kickstand, i'd be railing against any city regardless of who is running it, if i have to throw my shoes out after a "walk in the park".  would you take your dog for a walk in that cesspool?  then bring him back into your house, let him jump onto your bed and lick your face?  that's if he doesn't end up with a needle stuck in his paw >:(

Dogs like their own butt and genitals and then lick your face.   Every single day.    If you run them in dog parks, they are prancing in other dogs' poop.   Every single day.    Rolls in other dogs' poop.   Every chance they get.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on February 07, 2020, 03:33:31 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on February 07, 2020, 03:17:04 PM

another swing and a miss...nasty lil secret kickstand, i'd be railing against any city regardless of who is running it, if i have to throw my shoes out after a "walk in the park".  would you take your dog for a walk in that cesspool?  then bring him back into your house, let him jump onto your bed and lick your face?  that's if he doesn't end up with a needle stuck in his paw >:(

Meanwhile in rural Wisconsin...

https://www.wbay.com/content/news/Sheboygan-County-Landowners-Pledge-Support-to-CWD-Response-Plan-567629721.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on February 07, 2020, 04:01:12 PM

The cruise ships being quarantined .. that's brutal.   The infected numbers are going up even though the passengers are semi-locked away in their rooms.    Possible culprit?  The HVAC systems are not separate.   14 days is not going to do it.   You'd need +14 days past the last infection, with the clock constantly being reset.

Well, I'm sure this will all be squared away before I get on my cruise for spring break.   :-\

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Cheeks on February 07, 2020, 07:19:37 PM

Quote from: Jockey on February 07, 2020, 12:04:15 PM

Just the trolls way of injecting politics - railing against "liberal" cities.

Incorrect.  I love many cities that are run by all sorts of folks on the ideological spectrum.  You know it is bad out here when they are losing support from many of their own constituents to do something about the mess created.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 07, 2020, 07:33:55 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 07, 2020, 04:01:12 PM

The cruise ships being quarantined .. that's brutal.   The infected numbers are going up even though the passengers are semi-locked away in their rooms.    Possible culprit?  The HVAC systems are not separate.   14 days is not going to do it.   You'd need +14 days past the last infection, with the clock constantly being reset.

Well, I'm sure this will all be squared away before I get on my cruise for spring break.   :-\

Ah, so you're assuming your cruise ship line will still be in business!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on February 07, 2020, 07:37:10 PM

Quote from: jficke13 on February 07, 2020, 02:17:06 PM

By chance "The Great Influenza" came across my Audible this week, about 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic. Fascinating stuff about how that flu originated, spread, and burned through a society very poorly equipped to deal with it.

A lot of relevant information there.

It's especially interesting in how it spread so quickly back when the movement of people moved from place to place took so much longer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on February 07, 2020, 07:57:13 PM

Quote from: Jockey on February 07, 2020, 07:37:10 PM

It's especially interesting in how it spread so quickly back when the movement of people moved from place to place took so much longer.

On the reverse, it’s a much smaller world in terms of germ pool immunity and of course vaccinations.

Think back to how indigenous people were wiped out when the Europeans showed up with never before been seen diseases in their native lands. They were wiped out quickly...much more than the armies. Many of these new strains today are from China which had been closed for so long.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Cheeks on February 07, 2020, 08:55:25 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on February 07, 2020, 12:57:03 PM

There are a lot of "liberal" cities in this country that dont have poop squads, needle squads, and all the other nastiness that SF has.

There is literally an app for it....that's how horrendous it is....snapcrap


https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/a3xdae/more-people-pooping-in-san-francisco-than-ever-all-time-high-vgtrn

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on February 07, 2020, 10:04:54 PM

  little league player slides into hypodermic needle. betcha it was one of those "freebies" eyn'a?

  "Atrisco Valley Little League president Hector Aguilar said earlier this month an 11-year-old girl was practicing base sliding when a hypodermic needle pierced her foot"

https://www.sltrib.com/news/nation-world/2019/05/20/new-mexico-little-league/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 08, 2020, 08:47:21 AM

China stops Foxconn's plan to resume production on Feb 10 on coronavirus worries: Nikkei

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-foxconn-idUSKBN2020BC?utm_source=reddit.com (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-foxconn-idUSKBN2020BC?utm_source=reddit.com)

Gartner: Prepare pandemic planning around 25% absenteeism

https://searchhrsoftware.techtarget.com/news/252478113/Gartner-Prepare-pandemic-planning-around-25-absenteeism (https://searchhrsoftware.techtarget.com/news/252478113/Gartner-Prepare-pandemic-planning-around-25-absenteeism)

Chinese Car Factories Idled by Virus Raise Risks to Global Growth

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/07/business/coronavirus-china-auto-factories.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/07/business/coronavirus-china-auto-factories.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 09, 2020, 10:15:50 PM

Seems like Beijing is going into quarantine mode.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on February 09, 2020, 10:43:44 PM

For those that think many are over-reacting. The general problem with this virus is it is very contagious. If it becomes any more widely spread, it is likely to become endemic in the human population. That would mean in addition to seasonal flus, we'd have a seasonal wuhan-virus killing 1-2% of the population.

What people are referring to as over-reactions may be the only way to avoid this becoming endemic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Cheeks on February 09, 2020, 10:50:46 PM

Quote from: forgetful on February 09, 2020, 10:43:44 PM

For those that think many are over-reacting. The general problem with this virus is it is very contagious. If it becomes any more widely spread, it is likely to become endemic in the human population. That would mean in addition to seasonal flus, we'd have a seasonal wuhan-virus killing 1-2% of the population.

What people are referring to as over-reactions may be the only way to avoid this becoming endemic.

Looks like maybe we should issue more travel bans

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Billy Hoyle on February 10, 2020, 12:31:51 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on February 07, 2020, 12:57:03 PM

There are a lot of "liberal" cities in this country that dont have poop squads, needle squads, and all the other nastiness that SF has.

My assistant and I, for the past five years, have done a San Fran beer day hitting different breweries (Cellarmaker, Local, 21st Amendment among them).  One year we walked 7.5 miles, including through the Mission District (Pacific Standard).  Not one sign of this anywhere on our jaunts. My city is said by Fox News to be similar, yet the only Ive seen while walking or running is from dogs. Ran 9 miles today through the city, shoes are clean. The claims are pretty much crap.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Cheeks on February 10, 2020, 02:06:49 AM

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on February 10, 2020, 12:31:51 AM

My assistant and I, for the past five years, have done a San Fran beer day hitting different breweries (Cellarmaker, Local, 21st Amendment among them).  One year we walked 7.5 miles, including through the Mission District (Pacific Standard).  Not one sign of this anywhere on our jaunts. My city is said by Fox News to be similar, yet the only Ive seen while walking or running is from dogs. Ran 9 miles today through the city, shoes are clean. The claims are pretty much crap.

Billy....I get up there to SF all the time...it is bad.  LA, pretty much every week....really bad.  There are plenty of sources not named Fox News that have it documented...LA Times being one of them.


25000 incidents last year per SF Public Works Dept....not a bunch of crap....well actually...a whole lotta crap.


"I will say there is more feces on the sidewalks than I've ever seen growing up here," San Francisco Mayor London Breed told NBC in a 2018 interview. "That is a huge problem, and we are not just talking about from dogs — we're talking about from humans."

https://www.businessinsider.com/san-francisco-human-poop-problem-2019-4

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on February 10, 2020, 05:36:07 AM

Quote from: Cheeks on February 10, 2020, 02:06:49 AM

Billy....I get up there to SF all the time...it is bad.  LA, pretty much every week....really bad.  There are plenty of sources not named Fox News that have it documented...LA Times being one of them.


25000 incidents last year per SF Public Works Dept....not a bunch of crap....well actually...a whole lotta crap.


"I will say there is more feces on the sidewalks than I've ever seen growing up here," San Francisco Mayor London Breed told NBC in a 2018 interview. "That is a huge problem, and we are not just talking about from dogs — we're talking about from humans."

https://www.businessinsider.com/san-francisco-human-poop-problem-2019-4

you must be running thru nancy and gavins 'hoods.  they've also got their own cops there too

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on February 10, 2020, 05:51:53 AM

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41422-020-0282-0

Fingers crossed some good news

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on February 10, 2020, 08:27:05 AM

Heard the weekly coronavirus update from my Chinese factory counterpart.  Local government is asking factories to stay closed until March 1 and if they open sooner they take full legal responsibility.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Goose on February 10, 2020, 09:25:39 AM

MU FaninCT

It really is a mixed bag in regards to the opening of factories. Our company does supply chain mgt/QC work at roughly 50 factories in China and about 25% re-opened last night. We have some hoping to open later this week or next and others looking at 3/1 as starting date. It is going to be a crazy couple of weeks, probably longer than that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on February 10, 2020, 09:36:00 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on February 10, 2020, 08:27:05 AM

Heard the weekly coronavirus update from my Chinese factory counterpart.  Local government is asking factories to stay closed until March 1 and if they open sooner they take full legal responsibility.

What does "full legal responsibility" mean in this context?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on February 10, 2020, 09:51:50 AM

Quote from: MUBurrow on February 10, 2020, 09:36:00 AM

What does "full legal responsibility" mean in this context?

Probably major fines from the government.

He also said the factory has to pass a government inspection before it can be reopened.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on February 10, 2020, 09:59:29 AM

Quote from: MUBurrow on February 10, 2020, 09:36:00 AM

What does "full legal responsibility" mean in this context?

Remember what happened to the guys blamed for the baby milk scandal?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on February 10, 2020, 10:07:22 AM

I read a CNN article over the weekend that North Korea is the only Eastern country that hasn't had a case of Coronavirus.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/06/asia/north-korea-wuhan-coronavirus-infection-intl-hnk/index.html

Which got me to thinking, there's a lot of cross-border activity between China and DPRK, both legal and illegal... so if - by chance - the virus crosses the DPRK border, it's likely that the party will do everything to suppress any evidence; therefore, it's plausible that DPRK has already been exposed, and we just don't know it.  And considering that DPRK's health system is as sophisticated as Doc McStuffins' the virus could actually - in the literal sense - decimate that country.

On the other hand, the only plausible way that nobody in DPRK has died from this is if the country has some sort of immunity... which itself seems to defy logic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Goose on February 10, 2020, 11:58:28 AM

MU Burrow

Some factories are requesting third party contractors to sign papers exposing themselves to legal liability. Due the delays that will be caused by the virus, I am anticipating a lot of games to be played by suppliers. In fairness to the suppliers, they are not receiving consistent info from the different government agencies.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on February 10, 2020, 12:09:15 PM

Quote from: Benny B on February 10, 2020, 10:07:22 AM

I read a CNN article over the weekend that North Korea is the only Eastern country that hasn't had a case of Coronavirus.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/06/asia/north-korea-wuhan-coronavirus-infection-intl-hnk/index.html

Which got me to thinking, there's a lot of cross-border activity between China and DPRK, both legal and illegal... so if - by chance - the virus crosses the DPRK border, it's likely that the party will do everything to suppress any evidence; therefore, it's plausible that DPRK has already been exposed, and we just don't know it.  And considering that DPRK's health system is as sophisticated as Doc McStuffins' the virus could actually - in the literal sense - decimate that country.

On the other hand, the only plausible way that nobody in DPRK has died from this is if the country has some sort of immunity... which itself seems to defy logic.

Maybe the pulled everyone's teeth and that stopped the spread

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on February 10, 2020, 12:11:32 PM

I rarely let my conspiracy side out to play, but I do think there may be something to the concept that Coronavirus is a bio-weapon escaped.....Wuhan is home to two Chinese bio weapon labs

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on February 10, 2020, 12:14:25 PM

Quote from: Goose on February 10, 2020, 11:58:28 AM

MU Burrow

Some factories are requesting third party contractors to sign papers exposing themselves to legal liability. Due the delays that will be caused by the virus, I am anticipating a lot of games to be played by suppliers. In fairness to the suppliers, they are not receiving consistent info from the different government agencies.

Thanks Goose (and MUFaninCT). 

Given what "legal liability" means in the Chinese context, no supplier in their right mind would re-open with this type of hammer hanging over them, would they?  Unless maybe remaining closed would put them under? But even then...

Or is part of this to provide those suppliers cover from the government to tell their overseas customers that their hands are tied? Sorry for my ignorance on this, it just seems a very vague threat and I'm having trouble unpacking what it means (or maybe the Chinese authorities don't even know what it means yet?).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on February 10, 2020, 12:44:46 PM

Quote from: Goose on February 10, 2020, 11:58:28 AM

MU Burrow

Some factories are requesting third party contractors to sign papers exposing themselves to legal liability. Due the delays that will be caused by the virus, I am anticipating a lot of games to be played by suppliers. In fairness to the suppliers, they are not receiving consistent info from the different government agencies.

My company's Zhongshan plant manager said one of his customer's in Shenzhen was pushing for us to reopen, but our plant manger told the customer he would not endanger his employee's with this virus.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on February 10, 2020, 01:03:29 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on February 10, 2020, 12:11:32 PM

I rarely let my conspiracy side out to play, but I do think there may be something to the concept that Coronavirus is a bio-weapon escaped.....Wuhan is home to two Chinese bio weapon labs

gee, the guy that alerted everyone of the virus is dead and the dude that video taped a bunch of stuff was arrested and not whereabouts unknown-probably a kidney shortage or sumpin

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on February 10, 2020, 01:19:11 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on February 10, 2020, 12:44:46 PM

My company's Zhongshan plant manager said one of his customer's in Shenzhen was pushing for us to reopen, but our plant manger told the customer he would not endanger his employee's with this virus.

After they stopped laughing, what did they decide?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Its DJOver on February 10, 2020, 01:21:13 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on February 10, 2020, 12:11:32 PM

I rarely let my conspiracy side out to play, but I do think there may be something to the concept that Coronavirus is a bio-weapon escaped.....Wuhan is home to two Chinese bio weapon labs

Oh, I've read this one.  We all gotta meet up in Colorado and then walk to Vegas.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Cheeks on February 10, 2020, 01:23:40 PM

Quote from: Benny B on February 10, 2020, 10:07:22 AM

I read a CNN article over the weekend that North Korea is the only Eastern country that hasn't had a case of Coronavirus.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/06/asia/north-korea-wuhan-coronavirus-infection-intl-hnk/index.html

Which got me to thinking, there's a lot of cross-border activity between China and DPRK, both legal and illegal... so if - by chance - the virus crosses the DPRK border, it's likely that the party will do everything to suppress any evidence; therefore, it's plausible that DPRK has already been exposed, and we just don't know it.  And considering that DPRK's health system is as sophisticated as Doc McStuffins' the virus could actually - in the literal sense - decimate that country.

On the other hand, the only plausible way that nobody in DPRK has died from this is if the country has some sort of immunity... which itself seems to defy logic.

The same country where their leader got a hole in one on every hole....they are magical

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on February 10, 2020, 01:33:42 PM

Quote from: Its DJOver on February 10, 2020, 01:21:13 PM

Oh, I've read this one.  We all gotta meet up in Colorado and then walk to Vegas.

Your thoughts stand up well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on February 10, 2020, 02:15:32 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on February 10, 2020, 12:11:32 PM

I rarely let my conspiracy side out to play, but I do think there may be something to the concept that Coronavirus is a bio-weapon escaped.....Wuhan is home to two Chinese bio weapon labs

I love conspiracy theories, but I'm very hesitant and reluctant to go full tin-foil on this one.  Which either means there's some truth to it or the I'm terrified of the very prospect of full-on development of viral weaponry.  Which begs the question... short of an admission from the Chinese bio-lab workers, is it plausible that you could make such a determination simply by studying the virus?

More likely (hopefully) is that if this is a manufactured virus, it's part of the R&D into a universal flu vaccine.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on February 10, 2020, 02:16:45 PM

Quote from: Cheeks on February 10, 2020, 01:23:40 PM

The same country where their leader got a hole in one on every hole....they are magical

Kim is the best at everything.  Sounds weirdly familiar.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Cheeks on February 10, 2020, 02:33:06 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on February 10, 2020, 02:16:45 PM

Kim is the best at everything.  Sounds weirdly familiar.

He left 3 years ago....get over it...go watch his Netflix stuff if you feel so inclined.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on February 10, 2020, 03:33:18 PM

Quote from: Benny B on February 10, 2020, 02:15:32 PM

I love conspiracy theories, but I'm very hesitant and reluctant to go full tin-foil on this one.  Which either means there's some truth to it or the I'm terrified of the very prospect of full-on development of viral weaponry.  Which begs the question... short of an admission from the Chinese bio-lab workers, is it plausible that you could make such a determination simply by studying the virus?

More likely (hopefully) is that if this is a manufactured virus, it's part of the R&D into a universal flu vaccine.

You can determine if it's likely to have been engineered but I don't believe you can 100% prove it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on February 10, 2020, 05:48:34 PM

Like the conspiracy theory that Lyme Disease is engineered and accidentally escaped Plum Island, NY?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 10, 2020, 07:12:42 PM

Quote from: Benny B on February 10, 2020, 10:07:22 AM

I read a CNN article over the weekend that North Korea is the only Eastern country that hasn't had a case of Coronavirus.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/06/asia/north-korea-wuhan-coronavirus-infection-intl-hnk/index.html

Which got me to thinking, there's a lot of cross-border activity between China and DPRK, both legal and illegal... so if - by chance - the virus crosses the DPRK border, it's likely that the party will do everything to suppress any evidence; therefore, it's plausible that DPRK has already been exposed, and we just don't know it.  And considering that DPRK's health system is as sophisticated as Doc McStuffins' the virus could actually - in the literal sense - decimate that country.

On the other hand, the only plausible way that nobody in DPRK has died from this is if the country has some sort of immunity... which itself seems to defy logic.

Strange, I've heard it is in DPRK.  And that they're spraying everything between China and Pyongyang.  But I read too much.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 12, 2020, 06:40:35 PM

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1227741314911031296

Quote

BREAKING: Epicenter of coronavirus outbreak reports 14,840 new cases, including clinically diagnosed cases, and 242 new deaths

That is an ENORMOUS jump in new cases in one day.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on February 12, 2020, 07:07:03 PM

Seems like they were sandbagging ..


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQnQ-HBX0AAnQqQ?format=png&name=small)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on February 12, 2020, 07:17:42 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 12, 2020, 07:07:03 PM

Seems like they were sandbagging ..


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQnQ-HBX0AAnQqQ?format=png&name=small)

The Chinese must be in charge of the Senior Class Award voting too.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on February 13, 2020, 03:36:07 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 12, 2020, 07:07:03 PM

Seems like they were sandbagging ..


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQnQ-HBX0AAnQqQ?format=png&name=small)

My (limited) understanding is that this jump is due to a change in the criteria to reporting an infection.  Up until now, the case had to be confirmed through testing, which meant several days of lag, and in many cases, not being reported at all if the person died or for one reason or another didn't have a sample sent for testing.  From now on, the reported numbers are going to include all diagnoses made by doctors, regardless of the status of the test (unless negative, I guess).  So this jump included every probable case that hadn't been confirmed through testing.  Word from the CDC today is that this likely means there are far more cases than had been reported, but that the death rate is probably significantly lower than previously reported.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on February 14, 2020, 09:09:53 AM

Slightly off topic, but I'm starting to wonder if the worm is turning on China from a global perspective. Given the handling(or lack thereof) of the Coronavirus, the HK protests and by extension the reaction to the Daryl Morey tweet, and the muslim "re-education" camps....I think China is taking a lot of lumps. Could they recover, absolutely and I'm not saying that China as a world power is dying, but it's not outside the realm of possibility that we look back at the past three years and view this time as the unwinding of Chinese economic and political strength on the world stage.

As an example I know my company has put any expansion in China on hold for two years and are creating plans to exit HK as a center for financial and data transactions for our AP region.

Just something to keep an eye on IMHO

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on February 14, 2020, 09:52:38 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on February 14, 2020, 09:09:53 AM

Slightly off topic, but I'm starting to wonder if the worm is turning on China from a global perspective. Given the handling(or lack thereof) of the Coronavirus, the HK protests and by extension the reaction to the Daryl Morey tweet, and the muslim "re-education" camps....I think China is taking a lot of lumps. Could they recover, absolutely and I'm not saying that China as a world power is dying, but it's not outside the realm of possibility that we look back at the past three years and view this time as the unwinding of Chinese economic and political strength on the world stage.

As an example I know my company has put any expansion in China on hold for two years and are creating plans to exit HK as a center for financial and data transactions for our AP region.

Just something to keep an eye on IMHO

China is too large and powerful to succumb to external pressure.  The country is like an adult bookstore or a crack dealer... no matter how unethical or how despised they may be, they have something that people want (and if someone isn't willing to overlook their misdeeds, someone else will).

Change can only come from within, and even then, it must come from the masses, not simply the majority.  IMO, it would take something cataclysmic (which it is not looking like COVID-19 rises to this level) to change the paradigm in the People's Republic... decades of propaganda and censorship have ingrained their brand of authoritarianism so deeply within their culture that the very though of the Chinese rising up en masse against their gov't would be tantamount to Americans suddenly deciding that we're all going to completely abandon the idea of diamond engagement rings.

Taking a page while it's still fresh... watch American Factory on Netflix; the Chinese don't envy the lifestyle and leisure time that Americans enjoy, they despise it.  Even when given the freedom to explore, they still blindly adhere to their hierarchy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on February 14, 2020, 11:54:01 AM

Quote from: Benny B on February 14, 2020, 09:52:38 AM

China is too large and powerful to succumb to external pressure. The country is like an adult bookstore or a crack dealer... no matter how unethical or how despised they may be, they have something that people want (and if someone isn't willing to overlook their misdeeds, someone else will).

This.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on February 14, 2020, 05:54:40 PM

how dare anyone criticize and/ or doubt China...just ask the NBA and the tiananmen square survivors 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on February 14, 2020, 06:24:20 PM

Quote from: Benny B on February 14, 2020, 09:52:38 AM

China is too large and powerful to succumb to external pressure.  The country is like an adult bookstore or a crack dealer... no matter how unethical or how despised they may be, they have something that people want (and if someone isn't willing to overlook their misdeeds, someone else will).

Change can only come from within, and even then, it must come from the masses, not simply the majority.  IMO, it would take something cataclysmic (which it is not looking like COVID-19 rises to this level) to change the paradigm in the People's Republic... decades of propaganda and censorship have ingrained their brand of authoritarianism so deeply within their culture that the very though of the Chinese rising up en masse against their gov't would be tantamount to Americans suddenly deciding that we're all going to completely abandon the idea of diamond engagement rings.

Taking a page while it's still fresh... watch American Factory on Netflix; the Chinese don't envy the lifestyle and leisure time that Americans enjoy, they despise it.  Even when given the freedom to explore, they still blindly adhere to their hierarchy.

I've seen American Factory and I've seen Chinese culture first hand. I agree that change won't come from within unless  it is significantly impacted by external forces. As manufacturing automates (in fact manufacturing will move to an as a service model within the next 15 years) it will move closer to the consumer and scale requirements that China relies on will decrease giving China less competitive edge.

Again I don't think a major paradigm is going to happen but it's gone to a non-zero possibility in the last 3 years

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TallTitan34 on February 18, 2020, 12:44:10 AM

2019-20 United States Flu Season Preliminary CDC Estimates

250,000 hospitalized
14,000 dead

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on February 18, 2020, 06:28:10 AM

Quote from: TallTitan34 on February 18, 2020, 12:44:10 AM

2019-20 United States Flu Season Preliminary CDC Estimates

250,000 hospitalized
14,000 dead

Yes, the flu is a problem. The big concern is that the corona virus, unless contained, will become seasonal within the global population. If that happens estimates for how a corona virus season may look, would be something like.

5,000,000 hospitalized
300,000 dead.

The hospitalizations alone would cripple our medical system, possibly leading to even more deaths.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TallTitan34 on February 18, 2020, 07:29:24 AM

Quote from: forgetful on February 18, 2020, 06:28:10 AM

Yes, the flu is a problem. The big concern is that the corona virus, unless contained, will become seasonal within the global population. If that happens estimates for how a corona virus season may look, would be something like.

5,000,000 hospitalized
300,000 dead.

The hospitalizations alone would cripple our medical system, possibly leading to even more deaths.

Haven’t they already said they expect it to become seasonal?

Still don’t think the numbers will be that high. Somewhere I saw it mentioned that there is likely a large number of people who have it but show such mild symptoms they don’t even it checked. While that would likely increase the number of people getting infected, it would also drop that fatality and hospitalize rate a great deal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on February 18, 2020, 08:16:51 AM

Quote from: TallTitan34 on February 18, 2020, 07:29:24 AM

Haven’t they already said they expect it to become seasonal?

Still don’t think the numbers will be that high. Somewhere I saw it mentioned that there is likely a large number of people who have it but show such mild symptoms they don’t even it checked. While that would likely increase the number of people getting infected, it would also drop that fatality and hospitalize rate a great deal.

The probability of it becoming seasonal is reasonably high. Some people I know that run statistical models of epidemiology put the probability reasonably high, but it is not a forgone conclusion. The next 30 days are critical to see if it can be contained. A lot of mistakes being made though, which is not helping.

The numbers I listed are on the lower/middle end of the range that some colleague of mine have determined using statistics from CDC databases.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 18, 2020, 09:36:56 AM

Quote from: TallTitan34 on February 18, 2020, 07:29:24 AM

Haven’t they already said they expect it to become seasonal?

Still don’t think the numbers will be that high. Somewhere I saw it mentioned that there is likely a large number of people who have it but show such mild symptoms they don’t even it checked. While that would likely increase the number of people getting infected, it would also drop that fatality and hospitalize rate a great deal.

Except 20% require hospitalization.

Sorry bud, you're wrong if you think this is the flu.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 18, 2020, 09:38:52 AM

Quote from: TallTitan34 on February 18, 2020, 12:44:10 AM

2019-20 United States Flu Season Preliminary CDC Estimates

250,000 hospitalized
14,000 dead

China sure isn't treating it like the flu.  So I wouldn't trust their numbers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on February 18, 2020, 10:37:53 AM

Quote from: TallTitan34 on February 18, 2020, 12:44:10 AM

2019-20 United States Flu Season Preliminary CDC Estimates

250,000 hospitalized
14,000 dead

As Hards said, Covid-19 is not the flu... it is a respiratory disease with flu-like symptoms.  Comparing Covid-19 stats to flu stats is a false comparison that adds little in the way of perspective, especially since you're ignoring the time factor involved, i.e. you're comparing annual stats on flu to about a month's worth of stats on Covid-19... how the hell is anyone supposed to draw a conclusion on that?

In other words, whatever the agenda is in comparing seasonal influenza stats to Covid-19 stats, the comparison itself is tantamount to comparing the number of cardiac deaths to the number of AIDS deaths in the early 80's.  1981 Morty would probably say something along the lines of: "Oh geez, Rick, that AIDS thing sure isn't killing as many people as heart attacks are and barely anyone here has it... maybe we should just calm down and not do anything about it."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TallTitan34 on February 18, 2020, 10:51:00 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 18, 2020, 09:36:56 AM

Except 20% require hospitalization.

Sorry bud, you're wrong if you think this is the flu.

20% of known cases.  Maybe I should say reported cases since China isn't trustworthy.

Like I said, there are likely many others who have it and just experienced mild symptoms and didn't even get checked. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on February 18, 2020, 11:07:05 AM

Quote from: TallTitan34 on February 18, 2020, 10:51:00 AM

20% of known cases.  Maybe I should say reported cases since China isn't trustworthy.

Like I said, there are likely many others who have it and just experienced mild symptoms and didn't even get checked.

What point are you trying to make? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on February 18, 2020, 11:36:31 AM

Did the sky fall yet?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 18, 2020, 01:51:16 PM

Quote from: Jockey on February 18, 2020, 11:36:31 AM

Did the sky fall yet?

Check on Japan in a month.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on February 18, 2020, 01:58:25 PM

The fun part there will be if it turns out to be more than seasonal.   The Olympics could be jeopardized.     Worse than the virus in Rio that had all the golfers bailing.     And who has the facilities to host on short notice?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on February 18, 2020, 02:01:42 PM

Quote from: tower912 on February 18, 2020, 01:58:25 PM

The fun part there will be if it turns out to be more than seasonal.   The Olympics could be jeopardized.     Worse than the virus in Rio that had all the golfers bailing.     And who has the facilities to host on short notice?

I'd imagine they'd need to chose an area more than a city in that case. Even then it'd be tough.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 18, 2020, 03:44:09 PM

Quote from: tower912 on February 18, 2020, 01:58:25 PM

The fun part there will be if it turns out to be more than seasonal.   The Olympics could be jeopardized.     Worse than the virus in Rio that had all the golfers bailing.     And who has the facilities to host on short notice?

USA always has the ability to field the Olympics on short notice.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on February 18, 2020, 04:14:15 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 18, 2020, 01:51:16 PM

Check on Japan in a month.

Next month my company was supposed to have a quality audit from our Japanese headquarters.  They just postponed to maybe April. maybe May....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Cheeks on February 18, 2020, 04:16:46 PM

Quote from: tower912 on February 18, 2020, 01:58:25 PM

The fun part there will be if it turns out to be more than seasonal.   The Olympics could be jeopardized.     Worse than the virus in Rio that had all the golfers bailing.     And who has the facilities to host on short notice?

Los Angeles

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on February 18, 2020, 05:05:59 PM

Quote from: Cheeks on February 18, 2020, 04:16:46 PM

Los Angeles

Olympics Golf at Riv would be fantastic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on February 18, 2020, 05:07:16 PM

Quote from: Retire0 on February 18, 2020, 05:05:59 PM

Olympics Golf at Riv would be fantastic.

Would take Tiger out of medal contention.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on February 18, 2020, 11:42:57 PM

Quote from: Cheeks on February 18, 2020, 04:16:46 PM

Los Angeles

This.  Little known secret: LA is always on Ready-5 every four years leading up to the Olympics. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on February 19, 2020, 10:02:25 AM

Quote from: Benny B on February 18, 2020, 10:37:53 AM

As Hards said, Covid-19 is not the flu... it is a respiratory disease with flu-like symptoms.  Comparing Covid-19 stats to flu stats is a false comparison that adds little in the way of perspective, especially since you're ignoring the time factor involved, i.e. you're comparing annual stats on flu to about a month's worth of stats on Covid-19... how the hell is anyone supposed to draw a conclusion on that?

In other words, whatever the agenda is in comparing seasonal influenza stats to Covid-19 stats, the comparison itself is tantamount to comparing the number of cardiac deaths to the number of AIDS deaths in the early 80's.  1981 Morty would probably say something along the lines of: "Oh geez, Rick, that AIDS thing sure isn't killing as many people as heart attacks are and barely anyone here has it... maybe we should just calm down and not do anything about it."

This is a really good analysis, and I enjoy your use of Rick and Morty.

I'm also sick of seeing the flu comparison as a way to minimize the seriousness of this epidemic. There is still so much we don't know about COVID-19, including transmission methods, and reliable numbers on total infected and death rate. Even if it is just another "flu," that would be a pretty significant impact on global health.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on February 19, 2020, 10:19:37 AM

Quote from: Coleman on February 19, 2020, 10:02:25 AM

I'm also sick of seeing the flu comparison as a way to minimize the seriousness of this epidemic. There is still so much we don't know about COVID-19, including transmission methods, and reliable numbers on total infected and death rate. Even if it is just another "flu," that would be a pretty significant impact on global health.

I've used the flu comparison, but I don't really feel like I use it to minimize the seriousness of this epidemic. I've heard people (including my children) who were saying they were afraid to go outside or to go to work or public places. This is a very serious situation, but that is absolutely silly. The reference to the flu is merely a reminder that there really is no statistically significant risk of getting sick from this virus. If people aren't afraid to go to work every single day of winter, they shouldn't be afraid to to go to work because of this virus. It doesn't mean that it's not a big deal; it is.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on February 19, 2020, 10:30:54 AM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on February 19, 2020, 10:19:37 AM

I've used the flu comparison, but I don't really feel like I use it to minimize the seriousness of this epidemic. I've heard people (including my children) who were saying they were afraid to go outside or to go to work or public places. This is a very serious situation, but that is absolutely silly. The reference to the flu is merely a reminder that there really is no statistically significant risk of getting sick from this virus. If people aren't afraid to go to work every single day of winter, they shouldn't be afraid to to go to work because of this virus. It doesn't mean that it's not a big deal; it is.

That's fair, if you live in the US.

I don't think its silly to be afraid to go to work right now if you live in Wuhan.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on February 19, 2020, 10:40:04 AM

Quote from: Coleman on February 19, 2020, 10:30:54 AM

That's fair, if you live in the US.

I don't think its silly to be afraid to go to work right now if you live in Wuhan.

I completely agree. This is a very scary virus. I'm not minimizing that at all. When I compare it to the flu, I do not intend at all to suggest that this thing isn't extraordinarily serious where there are outbreaks. Only that people in the US should not be overly concerned about catching it themselves. Concerned about the people  in China? Absolutely. Concerned about impact on world economy? Yep. Concerned about actually acquiring it in the US? Probably not...especially if you don't live in fear of catching the flu.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on February 19, 2020, 11:03:33 AM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on February 19, 2020, 10:40:04 AM

I completely agree. This is a very scary virus. I'm not minimizing that at all. When I compare it to the flu, I do not intend at all to suggest that this thing isn't extraordinarily serious where there are outbreaks. Only that people in the US should not be overly concerned about catching it themselves. Concerned about the people  in China? Absolutely. Concerned about impact on world economy? Yep. Concerned about actually acquiring it in the US? Probably not...especially if you don't live in fear of catching the flu.

We are pretty much in agreement then. We are lucky the CDC is really good at what they do. Probably one of the most under-appreciated government agencies.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on February 19, 2020, 11:05:08 AM

Quote from: Coleman on February 19, 2020, 11:03:33 AM

We are pretty much in agreement then. We are lucky the CDC is really good at what they do. Probably one of the most under-appreciated government agencies.

Probably need to cut their budget then.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on February 19, 2020, 11:19:40 AM

Quote from: Coleman on February 19, 2020, 11:03:33 AM

We are pretty much in agreement then. We are lucky the CDC is really good at what they do. Probably one of the most under-appreciated government agencies.

No matter how good you are, when you essentially have the power to lock down and quarantine a major city, nobody's going to like you... even if you're trying to save their life.

Welcome to parenthood.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on February 19, 2020, 11:28:16 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on February 19, 2020, 11:05:08 AM

Probably need to cut their budget then.

So much this!  They've let like 15 cases through to the US, that's unacceptable.   What are they doing with all their money?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on February 19, 2020, 01:14:55 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 19, 2020, 11:28:16 AM

So much this!  They've let like 15 cases through to the US, that's unacceptable.   What are they doing with all their money?

Coke and whores...but for medical research purposes. Probably.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on February 19, 2020, 03:56:48 PM

Quote from: Coleman on February 19, 2020, 11:03:33 AM

We are pretty much in agreement then. We are lucky the CDC is really good at what they do. Probably one of the most under-appreciated government agencies.

A container showed up today from our Chinese customer.   They were returning empty spools and crates to us for our reuse.

Some of the floor workers were freaking out that our engineer called the CDC.  The CDC called him back indicating we had nothing to worry about and even less so since the crates spent several weeks on a boat crossing the Pacific followed by a cross country trip from California.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 19, 2020, 09:27:42 PM

South Koreas numbers today are... not reassuring.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on February 20, 2020, 05:58:28 PM

The Trump administration fired the entire pandemic response chain of command, and dismissed the White House management infrastructure.

He pushed Congress to cut funding for disease security programs created by Bush and Obama. Then, Trump lopped off $15 billion in national health spending and zeroed out the global disease-fighting budgets of the CDC, NSC, DHS, and HHS.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 22, 2020, 09:23:01 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 19, 2020, 09:27:42 PM

South Koreas numbers today are... not reassuring.

I said this three days ago when the number was 53.  Currently, its at 433... so an 8x increase in three days.

Looks like we might actually be seeing what this virus can do... and its not good.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 22, 2020, 01:57:15 PM

My guess is that by the end of next week the total confirmed infected will be over 100k.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Cheeks on February 22, 2020, 08:04:50 PM

Quote from: Jockey on February 20, 2020, 05:58:28 PM

The Trump administration fired the entire pandemic response chain of command, and dismissed the White House management infrastructure.

He pushed Congress to cut funding for disease security programs created by Bush and Obama. Then, Trump lopped off $15 billion in national health spending and zeroed out the global disease-fighting budgets of the CDC, NSC, DHS, and HHS.

Interesting how this isn’t politics but when another admin is shown to have tried to cut funding the post is deleted.  So strange.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on February 23, 2020, 09:57:49 AM

Quote from: Cheeks on February 22, 2020, 08:04:50 PM

Interesting how this isn’t politics but when another admin is shown to have tried to cut funding the post is deleted.  So strange.

Yes, there's terrible moderator hypocrisy on this forum.   You should be outraged.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Cheeks on February 23, 2020, 10:47:22 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 23, 2020, 09:57:49 AM

Yes, there's terrible moderator hypocrisy on this forum.   You should be outraged.

I just find it strange that someone brings up CDC PROPOSED cuts and when someone shows the previous guy did the same thing....it is deleted.  Wonder how come?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 23, 2020, 11:21:24 AM

Quote from: Cheeks on February 23, 2020, 10:47:22 AM

I just fine it strange that someone brings up CDC PROPOSED cuts and when someone shows the previous guy did the same thing....it is deleted.  Wonder how come?

Because you're off topic.  You don't have to ruin every thread with your political garbage.  This is moderating 101.

If you want to 'point out hypocrisy, there is an entire world to do it.   No one cares, and it isn't relevant to the discussion at hand.  Yet you CONTINUE to think that it is important.

If you have a problem with the post in question, report it, and ask for its removal.  But your false outrage and attempts to continually change the narrative are exhausting.  Its why you're so despised here. 

Read the room.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on February 23, 2020, 11:38:37 AM

Quote from: Cheeks on February 23, 2020, 10:47:22 AM

I just fine it strange that someone brings up CDC PROPOSED cuts and when someone shows the previous guy did the same thing....it is deleted.  Wonder how come?

Tell me about it!  The hypocrisy is unbearable, right? 

If it isn't, how can we get you to that point?  (Asking a friend.)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Cheeks on February 23, 2020, 09:16:57 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 23, 2020, 11:21:24 AM

Because you're off topic.  You don't have to ruin every thread with your political garbage.  This is moderating 101.

If you want to 'point out hypocrisy, there is an entire world to do it.   No one cares, and it isn't relevant to the discussion at hand.  Yet you CONTINUE to think that it is important.

If you have a problem with the post in question, report it, and ask for its removal.  But your false outrage and attempts to continually change the narrative are exhausting.  Its why you're so despised here. 

Read the room.

Oh mods were notified.... it's weird, if no one cares why would anyone care if someone posted that the previous administration did the same thing...you know since no one cares. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on February 23, 2020, 10:06:29 PM

Looks like we’ve got more than one virus in this thread.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on February 23, 2020, 10:29:30 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on February 19, 2020, 01:14:55 PM

Coke and whores...but for medical research purposes. Probably.

 smith and i have had some fightin words, but this one made me LOL, spittle and milk out the nose funny!  good one T! 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 23, 2020, 11:00:33 PM

Quote from: Cheeks on February 23, 2020, 09:16:57 PM

Oh mods were notified.... it's weird, if no one cares why would anyone care if someone posted that the previous administration did the same thing...you know since no one cares.

Because you're a nutjob and take it to extremes.  You can't help yourself.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on February 23, 2020, 11:27:22 PM

Welp, this had been a good thread with COVID-19 updates. One of the few superbar threads I follow. Now I see why you all report chicos as a thread ruiner.

I have to admit, he usually doesn't bring up or mention politics (others actually do that more), but he sure does have knack for public whining and complaining! 

Drop it cheeks.

Anyhow, looks likes China's financials due to CV are finally starting to get recognition. And with worldwide cases spreading (Italy!) Still impressive CDC has handled it here well, even with the cruise ship passengers - despite media outrage, it was for our own good!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on February 24, 2020, 08:05:43 AM

DOW expected to open -850 points this morning due to COVID-19.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Goose on February 24, 2020, 08:57:38 AM

Topper

I am completely shocked it has taken this long for the market to respond. On 2/3 I wrote down the NASDAQ was 9270 and fully expected a big pullback starting roughly around that time. It is currently approx at that point now. I have great concerns over the virus and the how it will affect the global economy for the remainder on the year. We are in the first inning of this potential crisis., I am afraid.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 24, 2020, 09:22:21 AM

Quote from: Goose on February 24, 2020, 08:57:38 AM

Topper

I am completely shocked it has taken this long for the market to respond. On 2/3 I wrote down the NASDAQ was 9270 and fully expected a big pullback starting roughly around that time. It is currently approx at that point now. I have great concerns over the virus and the how it will affect the global economy for the remainder on the year. We are in the first inning of this potential crisis., I am afraid.

I think it took this long because certain people were warned to slowly pull out.  But that's just the crazy in me talking.  ;)

The numbers out of Italy are of extreme concern. 

This is a global pandemic whether the WHO wants to call it that or not.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on February 24, 2020, 11:52:27 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 24, 2020, 09:22:21 AM

This is a global pandemic whether the WHO wants to call it that or not.

Because China tried to cover it up rather than deal with it when they needed to, this has all the earmarks of a classic pandemic. Once the spread has started, it is not easy to stop.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on February 24, 2020, 12:46:13 PM

weird, i've owned the stock called gilead for some time and just added to it last week-my suspicions were unfortunately right on.  they have been working on a drug called remdesavir, an anti-viral that may be effective against the coronavirus.  it hasn't been approved anywhere to use, but one has to think the pressure is on

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Cheeks on February 24, 2020, 08:14:24 PM

I smell lots of buying opportunities.  Short term investment in mask makers....they cannot make them fast enough.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on February 24, 2020, 08:16:26 PM

Just a heads up .. I want this to be a serious thread. 

Nonsense posts will be deleted.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: RJax55 on February 24, 2020, 08:31:48 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 24, 2020, 08:16:26 PM

Just a heads up .. I want this to be a serious thread. 

Nonsense posts will be deleted.

Thanks, Topper. Been following this thread and appreciate the effort to avoid it turning into the usual crapshow.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 24, 2020, 08:45:08 PM

Quote from: Cheeks on February 24, 2020, 08:14:24 PM

I smell lots of buying opportunities.  Short term investment in mask makers....they cannot make them fast enough.

Masks are not very profitable, I've looked into it.  ;D

specifically, 3M N95 masks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Cheeks on February 24, 2020, 08:49:07 PM

Over under in TOKYO GAMES being canceled? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 24, 2020, 09:06:54 PM

Quote from: Cheeks on February 24, 2020, 08:49:07 PM

Over under in TOKYO GAMES being canceled?

They should be.  But there are a few months to go.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on February 24, 2020, 09:15:06 PM

Quote from: Cheeks on February 24, 2020, 08:49:07 PM

Over under in TOKYO GAMES being canceled?

Two possibilities.

1) This goes pandemic by then, and it really doesn't matter where a person is, so no need to cancel.

2) It does not go pandemic, in which case it is largely contained by then, especially in Japan. So no need to cancel.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Cheeks on February 24, 2020, 09:48:35 PM

Trump administration asks for at least $2.5 billion to fight Coronavirus


https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/484441-white-house-asking-congress-for-25-billion-to-fight-coronavirus

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 24, 2020, 10:47:40 PM

Quote from: Cheeks on February 24, 2020, 10:12:19 PM

Well in reading the article apparently is and it isn’t enough....go figure, eh.  But I’m guessing money makes a difference in organizing, quarantining people, treating folks incrementally, etc.  I suspect money will be very important in fighting this.

Great.  Trust me, money doesn't solve this problem.  If it did, China would have solved this problem two months ago, and the rest of us would have never heard of it.

Don't be so naive.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: curbina on February 24, 2020, 11:20:17 PM

Good read on Coronavirus

THE STRESS OF CORONAVIRUS
The coronavirus outbreak has taken center stage, sparking nervousness around the world and severely hampering business in Asia’s...

https://insight.factset.com/the-stress-of-coronavirus

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Goose on February 25, 2020, 04:59:20 AM

Cheeks

I do not think there is going to be a short term buying opportunity. This is going to take awhile to itself out. My money is betting the other way and believe things could get ugly.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Cheeks on February 25, 2020, 08:11:43 AM

Quote from: Goose on February 25, 2020, 04:59:20 AM

Cheeks

I do not think there is going to be a short term buying opportunity. This is going to take awhile to itself out. My money is betting the other way and believe things could get ugly.

All depends on time horizons.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on February 25, 2020, 09:25:43 AM

Quote from: forgetful on February 24, 2020, 09:15:06 PM

Two possibilities.

1) This goes pandemic by then, and it really doesn't matter where a person is, so no need to cancel.

2) It does not go pandemic, in which case it is largely contained by then, especially in Japan. So no need to cancel.

-Or-

3) Status quo is mostly maintained between now and then, i.e. virus is still predominantly in China, but a handful of cases keep popping up around the world... in other words, it's not really a pandemic, but it's not really fully contained either. 

In other words, let's say the Olympics are three weeks away (March 15).  Assuming there's no global warming riots in Japan, do you bar China from competing, do you allow just the athletes & coaches in the country (no fans, family, etc.), or do you simply shut it down?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on February 25, 2020, 11:05:11 AM

Good article ..
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/covid-vaccine/607000/

.. Also .. how many billions go up in smoke if the Olympics are cancelled?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on February 25, 2020, 11:36:38 AM

IOC member Dick Pound says Tokyo Olympic organizers have until late May to see if the virus is under control. If not, "you're probably looking at a cancellation."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: curbina on February 25, 2020, 11:53:02 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 25, 2020, 11:05:11 AM

Good article ..
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/covid-vaccine/607000/

.. Also .. how many billions go up in smoke if the Olympics are cancelled?

Thanks Topper

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TallTitan34 on February 25, 2020, 01:59:19 PM

Quote from: Retire0 on February 25, 2020, 11:36:38 AM

IOC member Dick Pound says Tokyo Olympic organizers have until late May to see if the virus is under control. If not, "you're probably looking at a cancellation."

Wonder if he's friends with Dick Strong?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Not A Serious Person on February 25, 2020, 02:30:06 PM

You're dancing around the bigger issue. 

How many cases have to show up in the next few weeks in the US to cancel March Madness (and close, schools, theatres, the NBA, etc)?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: RJax55 on February 25, 2020, 02:41:35 PM

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on February 25, 2020, 02:30:06 PM

You're dancing around the bigger issue. 

How many cases have to show up in the next few weeks in the US to cancel March Madness (and close, schools, theatres, the NBA, etc)?

That's a good question and at this point, perhaps the only question for countries. Can you deal with the virus, while maintaining daily activities as normal as possible.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on February 25, 2020, 02:57:59 PM

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on February 25, 2020, 02:30:06 PM

You're dancing around the bigger issue. 

How many cases have to show up in the next few weeks in the US to cancel March Madness (and close, schools, theatres, the NBA, etc)?

Since the real danger is exposing 15,000 people in a stadium .. you could eliminate that, and just have the games played in front of empty stadiums.   Billions on the line, might as well play the games.


Now .. schools on the other hand .. they would need to close.


.. In the end, I think the virus goes global and quarantines will be pointless. 


Not that I know anything, but my two kids were streptococcus carriers and infected my wife 6 times w/strep throat before we figured it out.  Kids were healthy as could be .. they just carried it and infected her and probably others until we treated them. 


There are asymptomatic COVID-19 carriers:


https://www.sciencealert.com/researchers-confirmed-patients-can-transmit-the-coronavirus-without-showing-symptoms (https://www.sciencealert.com/researchers-confirmed-patients-can-transmit-the-coronavirus-without-showing-symptoms)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on February 25, 2020, 03:00:22 PM

From the White House today:

“We have contained this. I won’t say airtight, but pretty close to airtight.”


Stop worrying, everyone.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 25, 2020, 03:28:59 PM

Get your supplies before the run on the stores.

Worst case scenario, you have some food sitting around the house you can eat over the next couple of months.

Best case scenario, you're not out in the crowds fighting over what is left, and you're not exposing you or your family to human nature at the worst of times.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on February 25, 2020, 03:33:24 PM

Welp, now I can justify buying that 4 gallon can of Beefaroo at Costco.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on February 25, 2020, 03:40:10 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 24, 2020, 08:16:26 PM

Just a heads up .. I want this to be a serious thread. 

Nonsense posts will be deleted.

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 25, 2020, 03:33:24 PM

Welp, now I can justify buying that 4 gallon can of Beefaroo at Costco.

nm

edit:  Hilltopper, you complete me.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Goose on February 25, 2020, 03:44:03 PM

Cheeks


Human life is the most important part of this story, but as noted on here, the economic fallout is going to immense. If the virus was 100% contained in Hubei Province this was would be a big economic story, but spreading to other countries just threw gas on a potential serious economic issue.

For the past five years I have been telling anyone that would listen that someday China's economic/financial mess would make our housing crisis look like sound accounting. This virus might very well expose the cracks in the Chinese financial sector. After today's announcements I now think we are just in batting practice in this mess, not the first inning.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on February 25, 2020, 03:57:37 PM

Quote from: Cheeks on February 24, 2020, 09:48:35 PM

Trump administration asks for at least $2.5 billion to fight Coronavirus


https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/484441-white-house-asking-congress-for-25-billion-to-fight-coronavirus

Hmmm maybe we shouldn't have slashed NIH to begin with?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 25, 2020, 04:00:31 PM

BNO Newsroom
@BNODesk
U.S. CDC: "We're asking folks in every sector, as well as people within their families, to start planning for this, because as we've seen from the recent countries that have had community spread, when it hit in those countries, it has moved quite rapidly"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 25, 2020, 04:02:57 PM

The real tipping point in the US will be when people are told to stay home from work and school... and they have nothing, and are still living paycheck to paycheck...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on February 25, 2020, 05:21:29 PM

What really bugs me about all this is that this "being on the precipice of the early stages of the verge of panic" seems completely unnecessary.

Then again, even if CBP/CDC had acted proactively a month ago (when I first asked the question), would the situation be any better?

Nevertheless, all of this seems like it's now becoming a media darling, which means more sensationalism and fewer facts.  For one, initially I had feared transmission by the asymptomatic, which I was led to believe was synonymous with "pre-symptomatic."  Is this actually the case, or are there people who could be infected that will never develop symptoms (i.e. their immune system will be sufficient on its own)?  Unfortunately, it's hard to ascertain with the media and gov't so focused on ratings and campaigns.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on February 25, 2020, 05:40:22 PM

So ConEx in Vegas is coming up. Largest North American convention. Thinking maybe I shouldn’t go now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on February 25, 2020, 05:48:10 PM

My mom's a nurse injector in Scottsdale and has been put on back order for their next order of masks for the OR. Just saying the panic is hitting

Edit: at the grocery store now and there is a ton of rows of can goods gone. People even stocking up like it's Y2K

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: DegenerateDish on February 25, 2020, 05:53:32 PM

Quote from: Retire0 on February 25, 2020, 05:40:22 PM

So ConEx in Vegas is coming up. Largest North American convention. Thinking maybe I shouldn’t go now.

This is what I'm curious about for people on here, has anyone changed their travel plans or altered any plans based on the potential of the virus hitting the US?

Obviously if you were one who regularly had to go to China, that would of course be different.

Is anyone loading up on non perishables at this point? Anyone cancelled spring break plans? I travel for work pretty regularly, and have to admit I don't actively think about it. The number of people in airports I see wearing masks is up probably twentyfold.

I honestly come to this thread for info on the outbreak, the knowledge base here seems to be much more trustworthy to me than any other outlets.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Goose on February 25, 2020, 06:22:38 PM

MUDish

My travel, and my clients, is focused on Asia and our clients are on complete holding pattern. A large client was to be exhibiting at a large trade show in Germany next week and they were told today that show was cancelled until next February. This came roughy 7-10 days prior to show opening day.

I have traveled domestically and would travel to Asia if needed and able to do so. That said, my livelihood is largely based off of doing things other smarter people prefer not to do.

IMO, this is not a media frenzied event. While I know little about the science nature of the virus, I have never experienced this type of response to an event in my career. Stated weeks ago that China brass ever had the greatest overreaction ever or there is more to the story.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on February 25, 2020, 06:51:04 PM

Quote from: Goose on February 25, 2020, 06:22:38 PM

MUDish

My travel, and my clients, is focused on Asia and our clients are on complete holding pattern. A large client was to be exhibiting at a large trade show in Germany next week and they were told today that show was cancelled until next February. This came roughy 7-10 days prior to show opening day.

I have traveled domestically and would travel to Asia if needed and able to do so. That said, my livelihood is largely based off of doing things other smarter people prefer not to do.

IMO, this is not a media frenzied event. While I know little about the science nature of the virus, I have never experienced this type of response to an event in my career. Stated weeks ago that China brass ever had the greatest overreaction ever or there is more to the story.

I'm going to a trade show in Germany Mar 30 - Apr 4.  20 pavilions including two that are the China Pavilion.  We were discussing if the show would continue or be cancelled.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on February 25, 2020, 06:59:39 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on February 25, 2020, 05:48:10 PM

My mom's a nurse injector in Scottsdale and has been put on back order for their next order of masks for the OR. Just saying the panic is hitting

Edit: at the grocery store now and there is a ton of rows of van goods gone. People even stocking up like it's Y2K

i instructed my office to stock up on masks 2-3 weeks ago. i thought i was being proactive and the smartest kid on the block...i hope we got enough!! 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 25, 2020, 07:01:12 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on February 25, 2020, 06:59:39 PM

i instructed my office to stock up on masks 2-3 weeks ago. i thought i was being proactive and the smartest kid on the block...i hope we got enough!! 

N95?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Goose on February 25, 2020, 07:02:52 PM

Hards

The only mask.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 25, 2020, 07:03:56 PM

Quote from: Goose on February 25, 2020, 07:02:52 PM

Hards

The only mask.

I know you guys are pros, but the rest of the public will just buy whatever they see... or probably whatever is left.

It was a silly question  :P

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on February 25, 2020, 07:06:44 PM

Quote from: Benny B on February 25, 2020, 05:21:29 PM

What really bugs me about all this is that this "being on the precipice of the early stages of the verge of panic" seems completely unnecessary.

Then again, even if CBP/CDC had acted proactively a month ago (when I first asked the question), would the situation be any better?

Nevertheless, all of this seems like it's now becoming a media darling, which means more sensationalism and fewer facts.  For one, initially I had feared transmission by the asymptomatic, which I was led to believe was synonymous with "pre-symptomatic."  Is this actually the case, or are there people who could be infected that will never develop symptoms (i.e. their immune system will be sufficient on its own)?  Unfortunately, it's hard to ascertain with the media and gov't so focused on ratings and campaigns.

i think you may be referring to a "carrier"  i.e. one can have hepatitis c without any signs/symptoms and still have the virus.  my understanding of the coronavirus is that if you have it, it starts out with a mild fever and/or cold-like symptoms. 

right now, it has been fatal for 2% of those coming down with it.  i have not heard, but i'm assuming it is most problematic with the very young, very old and those with compromised immune systems

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on February 25, 2020, 07:10:25 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 25, 2020, 07:01:12 PM

N95?

this was all news to me.  never heard of an n95 but here it is...

https://www.livescience.com/face-mask-new-coronavirus.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: real chili 83 on February 25, 2020, 07:11:11 PM

I’m traveling in Fargo. Do I need to be worried?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on February 25, 2020, 07:53:08 PM

Quote from: real chili 83 on February 25, 2020, 07:11:11 PM

I’m traveling in Fargo. Do I need to be worried?

Stay away from wood chippers and you’ll be fine.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Not A Serious Person on February 25, 2020, 08:35:46 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 25, 2020, 02:57:59 PM

Since the real danger is exposing 15,000 people in a stadium .. you could eliminate that, and just have the games played in front of empty stadiums.   Billions on the line, might as well play the games.


Now .. schools on the other hand .. they would need to close.


.. In the end, I think the virus goes global and quarantines will be pointless. 


Not that I know anything, but my two kids were streptococcus carriers and infected my wife 6 times w/strep throat before we figured it out.  Kids were healthy as could be .. they just carried it and infected her and probably others until we treated them. 


There are asymptomatic COVID-19 carriers:


https://www.sciencealert.com/researchers-confirmed-patients-can-transmit-the-coronavirus-without-showing-symptoms (https://www.sciencealert.com/researchers-confirmed-patients-can-transmit-the-coronavirus-without-showing-symptoms)

They will not play it in empty stadiums.  Just the two teams and the broadcast crews are still hundreds of people.  That's too many.

And, if they "insist" on playing it and players (or TV crews) get sick, the NCAA is tied up in court paying out its billions in damages.

So, all or none.  It either goes off as planned or completely canceled.  No half-way.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 25, 2020, 11:32:14 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on February 25, 2020, 07:06:44 PM

i think you may be referring to a "carrier"  i.e. one can have hepatitis c without any signs/symptoms and still have the virus.  my understanding of the coronavirus is that if you have it, it starts out with a mild fever and/or cold-like symptoms. 

right now, it has been fatal for 2% of those coming down with it.  i have not heard, but i'm assuming it is most problematic with the very young, very old and those with compromised immune systems

Depends if you believe the Chinese.  I don't.  Look what this thing does to countries like Iran without the resources that China can throw at it. 

I have also heard that asymptomatic carriers are likely.  That is part of what is making this very hard to slow down.  They can't find patient zero in Italy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on February 26, 2020, 12:05:49 AM

Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on February 25, 2020, 07:53:08 PM

Stay away from wood chippers and you’ll be fine.

Post of the decade.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 26, 2020, 09:21:19 AM

Quote from: Mutaman on February 26, 2020, 12:05:49 AM

Post of the decade.

Real good, Margie.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on February 26, 2020, 09:25:00 AM

Vigilance is obviously necessary, but I'm going to go on record as saying we will look back in 5 years on the Covid-19 virus hub bub as overblown and closer to SARs or Asian Birdflu than some global death pandemic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on February 26, 2020, 09:34:02 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on February 26, 2020, 09:25:00 AM

Vigilance is obviously necessary, but I'm going to go on record as saying we will look back in 5 years on the Covid-19 virus hub bub as overblown and closer to SARs or Asian Birdflu than some global death pandemic.

This.

Maybe just living in central Indiana gives a different perspective, but I see no indications of panic or chaos (empty shelves at the grocery).

Also, I rarely watch TV news, so that may have something to do with it as well.

Please note this is different than economic concerns with Chinese factories being closed.

At the time, the Ebola panic seemed way worse than what Corona is doing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on February 26, 2020, 09:35:06 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on February 26, 2020, 09:25:00 AM

Vigilance is obviously necessary, but I'm going to go on record as saying we will look back in 5 years on the Covid-19 virus hub bub as overblown and closer to SARs or Asian Birdflu than some global death pandemic.

After reading that Atlantic article I'm starting to lean this way.
I get the sense because this is "new", not being a flu virus but with similar symptoms, and not being flu means there are plenty of unknowns that everyone is assuming the worst. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on February 26, 2020, 10:35:56 AM

Found this website to have interesting data:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/)
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/)


81% of the cases (reported) are classified as "mild".  14% are 'severe' (developing severe diseases including pneumonia and shortness of breath.)   2% fatal.

If you don't have heart disease, diabetes, respiratory issues, hypertension or cancer .. the fatality rate is .9%.    That's further lower if you're under the age of 70.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Goose on February 26, 2020, 10:37:08 AM

I believe the economic fallout is going to be the biggest part of the story. I have zero idea on how serious the virus is, but know that it is already causing major economic headaches. While I hope it is remembered like SARS, I am hoping the economic damage is not too severe.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on February 26, 2020, 10:42:41 AM

The big thing for me is that the death count is neither higher nor significant within non-at risk populations than any other virus out there. It may turn out to be more which is why you have to stay on top of it but it certainly doesn't rise to some sort of impact on my daily life at this point other than from a supply chain standpoint.

Here's where I think we have to find a better way to cover these types of things.....obviously the right information and details about Covid-19 is going to be slow moving, it is the nature of virology specifically and science generally, but the cadence of news coverage moves much faster than that so the content machine must be fed resulting in overstated or conflicting information. This is further exacerbated by the fact that these viruses are going to emerge in what I would term "information restricted" locations. Either due to infrastructure (developing or war torn countries like Syria, Congo, etc) or politically repressive countries (ie Iran, China, etc) useful information is not made available to where it can be consumed which leads to news coverage trying to fill the gaps with problematic/unverified information which leads to further misinformation.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on February 26, 2020, 10:43:59 AM

Quote from: Goose on February 26, 2020, 10:37:08 AM

I believe the economic fallout is going to be the biggest part of the story. I have zero idea on how serious the virus is, but know that it is already causing major economic headaches. While I hope it is remembered like SARS, I am hoping the economic damage is not too severe.

I believe this will be what we remember this time in history by and I also think it will be a major inflection point in the diversification, redistribution, and automation of the global manufacturing footprint.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on February 26, 2020, 11:14:50 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on February 26, 2020, 10:43:59 AM

I believe this will be what we remember this time in history by and I also think it will be a major inflection point in the diversification, redistribution, and automation of the global manufacturing footprint.

This is a reminder of the motivation, but in and of itself is not a catalyst for changing the supply chain.  Every company wants to be as close to their customers as possible while remaining economically efficient. 

Risk management, the increasing cost of labor in China and an increasingly competitive environment between the US & China are definitely considerations. 

However, automation advances and the dramatic reduction in cost to implement automation,  are the key enablers.  This is what will drive footprint changes as it reduces or even eliminates the penalty that exists today on getting close to your customer.  All this is already happening behind the scenes Covid-19 or not.

All my opinion of course.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on February 26, 2020, 11:23:10 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 25, 2020, 07:03:56 PM

I know you guys are pros, but the rest of the public will just buy whatever they see... or probably whatever is left.

Looks like I finally have a use for all those P100 cartridges and Tyvek jumpsuits that I had forgotten I had put on Subscribe and Save.

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 26, 2020, 10:35:56 AM

Found this website to have interesting data:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/)
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/)


81% of the cases (reported) are classified as "mild".  14% are 'severe' (developing severe diseases including pneumonia and shortness of breath.)   2% fatal.

If you don't have heart disease, diabetes, respiratory issues, hypertension or cancer .. the fatality rate is .9%.    That's further lower if you're under the age of 70.

It bears repeating... this is a RESPIRATORY ILLNESS with flu-like symptoms (it is not "the flu").  So it would stand to reason that heavy smokers and those living in industrial areas with significant air quality issues - *cough* China *cough* *cough* *hack* *wheeze* (see what I did there) - would be more susceptible to a respiratory virus than the rest of us, i.e. Covid-19 is presumably less fatal in western, developed countries with smoking bans and Clean Air Acts.

With the disclaimer that I don't know if these statistics are relevant, or provide any meaningful comparison, a quick check of air quality measurements shows that the average "PM2.5" level in Wuhan in 2013 was 88.7.

Same metric for 2019 in Illinois: 9.2
Wisconsin: 7.4
California: 7.7
Texas: 8.4
New Jersey: 8.1

Again, not saying this actually means anything, but by the PM2.5 metric, air quality in Wuhan is 10x worse than the US.  Does that make them 10x as susceptible... probably not.  Would the prognosis for a COVID infection be significantly better for someone who's lived their entire life in the US... I would have to think 'yes.'

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on February 26, 2020, 11:29:00 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on February 26, 2020, 10:42:41 AM

Here's where I think we have to find a better way to cover these types of things.....obviously the right information and details about Covid-19 is going to be slow moving, it is the nature of virology specifically and science generally, but the cadence of news coverage moves much faster than that so the content machine must be fed resulting in overstated or conflicting information. This is further exacerbated by the fact that these viruses are going to emerge in what I would term "information restricted" locations. Either due to infrastructure (developing or war torn countries like Syria, Congo, etc) or politically repressive countries (ie Iran, China, etc) useful information is not made available to where it can be consumed which leads to news coverage trying to fill the gaps with problematic/unverified information which leads to further misinformation.

C'mon, man.  Where's the cynicism?  What's with all the level-headed elegance?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on February 26, 2020, 11:48:57 AM

My fav comment today was, in regards to China having this fairly contained and it dying down, "China isn't my worry, its the rapid spread across the rest of the world"...if there was a disease that showed up in 5, 10, even 100 people in a country, it wouldn't begin to merit this level of hysteria.  If China is under control and vaccines in the works, I don't care about 1 person in Croatia, 3 people in St Louis, 5 in Helsinki.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on February 26, 2020, 12:04:08 PM

Quote from: Benny B on February 26, 2020, 11:29:00 AM

C'mon, man.  Where's the cynicism?  What's with all the level-headed elegance?

(https://media.giphy.com/media/FQyFJNXNRx6De/200.gif)

Better?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on February 26, 2020, 12:39:51 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on February 26, 2020, 11:48:57 AM

If China is under control and vaccines in the works

You should read the Atlantic article that hilltopper linked.  But in case it's tl;dr

1) There is likely no long term vaccine.  if one can be created, it would be like the flu vaccine - you need to re-up every year - and not 100% effective.
2) If that can be created, it's probably at least 12 months from now.
3) it would be surprising if a large chunk of the population does not get the virus. 

I'm surprised how nonchalant the posts are today.

From the CDC call
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/t0221-cdc-telebriefing-covid-19.html

Quote

We’re not seeing spread here in the United States yet, but it is possible, even likely, that it may eventually happen.  Our goal continues to be slowing the introduction of the virus into the U.S

Quote

Therefore, it is possible that some of these people were already incubating the disease when they left japan. That is similar to, for example, what we’ve seen in just some of the travelers in the U.S.  I’ll remind you that some of the U.S. cases were asymptomatic when they came back in the U.S., and then developed symptoms several days later.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on February 26, 2020, 12:46:01 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 25, 2020, 11:32:14 PM

Depends if you believe the Chinese.  I don't.  Look what this thing does to countries like Iran without the resources that China can throw at it. 

I have also heard that asymptomatic carriers are likely.  That is part of what is making this very hard to slow down.  They can't find patient zero in Italy.

Supposed to be traveling to Milan at the beginning of April, I guess it is wait and watch for now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on February 26, 2020, 01:08:04 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 25, 2020, 11:32:14 PM

Depends if you believe the Chinese.  I don't.  Look what this thing does to countries like Iran without the resources that China can throw at it. 

I have also heard that asymptomatic carriers are likely.  That is part of what is making this very hard to slow down.  They can't find patient zero in Italy.

  agree 100% however, i don't believe enough is known about asymptomatic carriers yet, but would not surprise me. 

it was the secrecy of the Chinese that allowed this thing to get out of control.  they could have corralled this thing way back with a little bit of humility and transparency. this is 2020, not 1818!!   makes one wonder if there were other motivations involved here.  the ramifications could unnecessarily be endless here.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on February 26, 2020, 01:22:12 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on February 26, 2020, 01:08:04 PM

it was the secrecy of the Chinese that allowed this thing to get out of control.  they could have corralled this thing way back with a little bit of humility and transparency.

They probably could have handled it better, but I'm not so quick to judge. With up to 14 days of incubation, and it being a new virus I can see it being hard to get a handle on the fact that it's even happened.   The lockdown was unprecedented, and something the US will have trouble doing when it starts to spread here.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-24/who-says-china-lockdown-blunted-new-epidemic-leading-to-decline

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on February 26, 2020, 01:37:26 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 26, 2020, 01:22:12 PM

The lockdown was unprecedented, and something the US will have trouble doing when it starts to spread here.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-24/who-says-china-lockdown-blunted-new-epidemic-leading-to-decline

This i can agree with.  When the Chinese government says something/gives a directive, the population complies unflinchingly.  Not so much in US, which isn't necessarily a bad thing in most cases, but it is here

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on February 26, 2020, 01:40:05 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 26, 2020, 10:35:56 AM

Found this website to have interesting data:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/)
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/)


81% of the cases (reported) are classified as "mild".  14% are 'severe' (developing severe diseases including pneumonia and shortness of breath.)   2% fatal.

If you don't have heart disease, diabetes, respiratory issues, hypertension or cancer .. the fatality rate is .9%.    That's further lower if you're under the age of 70.

The demographic chart is reassuring to me. I have a 2 month old and have been worrying as everything I hear is that the "very young" are also high risk. Can there really be no fatalities? That doesn't seem possible.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on February 26, 2020, 01:41:28 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 26, 2020, 01:22:12 PM

They probably could have handled it better, but I'm not so quick to judge. With up to 14 days of incubation, and it being a new virus I can see it being hard to get a handle on the fact that it's even happened.   The lockdown was unprecedented, and something the US will have trouble doing when it starts to spread here.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-24/who-says-china-lockdown-blunted-new-epidemic-leading-to-decline

This is a good take, but sending the dr to jail when he raised alarm about a new disease tilts the scale less toward "its hard to get a handle on" and more toward "let's cover it up" in my opinion

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on February 26, 2020, 01:45:53 PM

Today's CDC transcript for those that like to read ... Or listen!

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/t0225-cdc-telebriefing-covid-19.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on February 26, 2020, 02:22:16 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 26, 2020, 01:45:53 PM

Today's CDC transcript for those that like to read ... Or listen!

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/t0225-cdc-telebriefing-covid-19.html (https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/t0225-cdc-telebriefing-covid-19.html)

You should ask your children’s school about their plans for school dismissals or school closures.  If ask if there are plans for teleschool.  I contacted my local school superintendent this morning with exactly those questions.
Ouch.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on February 26, 2020, 03:05:46 PM

This comes straight from the CDC:

Those Scoopers with a Fu Manchu had better change their 'stache to the Zorro or the Zappa or their new respirators won't work properly:

(https://i.insider.com/5e55b2f1fee23d7edc628104?width=650&format=jpeg&auto=webp)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on February 26, 2020, 03:08:55 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 26, 2020, 01:22:12 PM

They probably could have handled it better, but I'm not so quick to judge. With up to 14 days of incubation, and it being a new virus I can see it being hard to get a handle on the fact that it's even happened.   The lockdown was unprecedented, and something the US will have trouble doing when it starts to spread here.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-24/who-says-china-lockdown-blunted-new-epidemic-leading-to-decline

"handled it a little better" is a bit of an understatement since the doc tried warning them of this virus on or around december 3.  then he was detained by "police" and made to sign a document about spreading "falsehoods" and i'm sure the negative reinforcement was overwhelming except he "died from the virus" himself...hmmmm....

probably a little room for improvement here


https://thehill.com/policy/international/asia-pacific/481977-china-investigating-death-of-doctor-who-sounded-coronavirus

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on February 26, 2020, 03:21:56 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on February 26, 2020, 03:08:55 PM

probably a little room for improvement here

Yes, it's awful the Chinese government silenced him. Mmmkay?  And unfortunate he died from it.

I don't believe the spread would have been much different if they hadn't.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: DegenerateDish on February 26, 2020, 06:13:06 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 26, 2020, 02:22:16 PM

You should ask your children’s school about their plans for school dismissals or school closures.  If ask if there are plans for teleschool.  I contacted my local school superintendent this morning with exactly those questions.
Ouch.

I’ve been wondering about this the most. With February nearly over, and 3 months left in the school year, can the US get to the end of the school year before this sucker spreads? I would doubt it (?). I think a decent mile marker is if the US can get towards Memorial Day without a major outbreak.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: lawdog77 on February 26, 2020, 06:28:57 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 26, 2020, 03:05:46 PM

This comes straight from the CDC:

Those Scoopers with a Fu Manchu had better change their 'stache to the Zorro or the Zappa or their new respirators won't work properly:

(https://i.insider.com/5e55b2f1fee23d7edc628104?width=650&format=jpeg&auto=webp)

The toothbrush? Who on earth would even grow that after Hitler?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on February 26, 2020, 06:34:34 PM

Quote from: lawdog77 on February 26, 2020, 06:28:57 PM

The toothbrush? Who on earth would even grow that after Hitler?

I toured a house the other day and the selling agent had one... it was uncomfortable

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on February 26, 2020, 06:37:52 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 26, 2020, 03:05:46 PM

This comes straight from the CDC:

Those Scoopers with a Fu Manchu had better change their 'stache to the Zorro or the Zappa or their new respirators won't work properly:

(https://i.insider.com/5e55b2f1fee23d7edc628104?width=650&format=jpeg&auto=webp)

Ian Bremmer posted this with the caption “unclear Brooklyn survives Coronavirus “

I chuckled. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: RJax55 on February 26, 2020, 06:45:02 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on February 26, 2020, 06:34:34 PM

I toured a house the other day and the selling agent had one... it was uncomfortable

The only guy I've ever seen with that look was Michael Jordan in those old Hanes ads.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 26, 2020, 07:01:36 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on February 26, 2020, 11:48:57 AM

My fav comment today was, in regards to China having this fairly contained and it dying down, "China isn't my worry, its the rapid spread across the rest of the world"...if there was a disease that showed up in 5, 10, even 100 people in a country, it wouldn't begin to merit this level of hysteria.  If China is under control and vaccines in the works, I don't care about 1 person in Croatia, 3 people in St Louis, 5 in Helsinki.

Allow me to explain why you should.  China lies.  China lies.  I can't type it enough.  I can't say it enough.  If people are moving around the world, asymptomatic for a week or two and infecting other people these 1, 3, and 5 people bloom into clusters. 
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/NewWeightyAtlanticspadefish-size_restricted.gif)

Now, China can shut that down.  Just look at the major cities.  They slam the doors closed, and implement draconian (very effective) measures.  The rest of the world doesn't operate like China.  The US can't enforce the measures that China took.

You and I might not die from the virus.  What MIGHT happen is all the beds are full with Covid2019 patients.  Where does the normal flow of people who go to the ER or the hospital end up?  There isn't enough workers, or hospitals to tend to everyone, and people will die from things other than Covid2019.  Not to mention all the people who will show up to the ER and Urgent Cares... who SWEAR they have the virus, and demand antibiotics, and who aren't being seen fast enough.  What this virus does is completely and totally overwhelms the medical communities ability to do their job.  If anything close to 20% of people who contract Covid2019 require hospitalization or extended care we are boned. 

I'm not panicking, but I'm taking this very seriously.  The economic impact will be enormous unless this is gone in a month.  Even then, it will be bad.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on February 26, 2020, 07:11:11 PM

 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/26/health/coronavirus-cdc-usa.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/26/health/coronavirus-cdc-usa.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on February 26, 2020, 08:01:06 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 26, 2020, 07:01:36 PM

Allow me to explain why you should.  China lies.  China lies.  I can't type it enough.  I can't say it enough.  If people are moving around the world, asymptomatic for a week or two and infecting other people these 1, 3, and 5 people bloom into clusters. 
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/NewWeightyAtlanticspadefish-size_restricted.gif)

Now, China can shut that down.  Just look at the major cities.  They slam the doors closed, and implement draconian (very effective) measures.  The rest of the world doesn't operate like China.  The US can't enforce the measures that China took.

You and I might not die from the virus.  What MIGHT happen is all the beds are full with Covid2019 patients.  Where does the normal flow of people who go to the ER or the hospital end up?  There isn't enough workers, or hospitals to tend to everyone, and people will die from things other than Covid2019.  Not to mention all the people who will show up to the ER and Urgent Cares... who SWEAR they have the virus, and demand antibiotics, and who aren't being seen fast enough.  What this virus does is completely and totally overwhelms the medical communities ability to do their job.  If anything close to 20% of people who contract Covid2019 require hospitalization or extended care we are boned. 

I'm not panicking, but I'm taking this very seriously.  The economic impact will be enormous unless this is gone in a month.  Even then, it will be bad.

wow hards!  you're becoming my hero man! 

   they're saying, if you are having a heart attack, stroke, bleeding to death in china...sorry, but we've got sick people to attend to, but we'll take a kidney or 2 :D

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 26, 2020, 08:15:17 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on February 26, 2020, 08:01:06 PM

wow hards!  you're becoming my hero man! 

   they're saying, if you are having a heart attack, stroke, bleeding to death in china...sorry, but we've got sick people to attend to, but we'll take a kidney or 2 :D

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not... So I'll assume no.

This guy is a great resource for understanding basic epidemiology.  I can't remember how to embed videos, and there isn't a button on here

https://youtu.be/dnE9O-vV-ws

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on February 26, 2020, 08:49:44 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on February 26, 2020, 12:46:01 PM

Supposed to be traveling to Milan at the beginning of April, I guess it is wait and watch for now.

A series of major science conferences that occur in Italy has rescheduled and moved all conferences out of Italy.

Italy is going to be an issue for a little while.

For those saying the fatality rate in Western countries will be lower than in China...

Italy has a 3% fatality rate, which is likely understating the actual values as most cases are new, and have not gotten to the dangerous high-risk phase of the illness yet.

Regarding the Atlantic article. The epidemiologist there is using similar models as my colleagues that I posted about a couple weeks ago. Then and now, I believe their models are inaccurate. They are over-estimating the number of undiagnosed cases in the US by a considerable margin in my opinion. But the recent developments in Italy and other countries might end up making their models accurate, but delayed by 2-4 weeks.

We are in wait and see mode. I am optimistic, place the risk of global pandemic and major number of deaths in the US at around 30%.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on February 26, 2020, 09:14:15 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 26, 2020, 07:01:36 PM

If people are moving around the world, asymptomatic for a week or two and infecting other people these 1, 3, and 5 people bloom into clusters.

To be clear, that's a very big if. We know you can be asymptomatic for a couple weeks. I don't think anybody has proven (or disproven) that it's contagious while asymptomatic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 26, 2020, 09:21:42 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 26, 2020, 09:14:15 PM

To be clear, that's a very big if. We know you can be asymptomatic for a couple weeks. I don't think anybody has proven (or disproven) that it's contagious while asymptomatic.

Very true

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on February 26, 2020, 09:28:38 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 26, 2020, 09:21:42 PM

Very true

But on the other hand, to those that think it was merely China not responding correctly, Germany (very advanced) admits they can't track it:

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2020-02-26/germany-is-at-start-of-coronavirus-epidemic-health-minister

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on February 26, 2020, 10:04:09 PM

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/26/health/coronavirus-us-developments/index.html

Not a good development. It means that we are not tracking things well here either, and some of the estimates in the epidemiology models may be accurate.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on February 27, 2020, 06:46:26 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 26, 2020, 08:15:17 PM

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not... So I'll assume no.

This guy is a great resource for understanding basic epidemiology.  I can't remember how to embed videos, and there isn't a button on here

https://youtu.be/dnE9O-vV-ws

Nope, no sarcasm.  I’m impressed by your DD and the following of the bouncing ball here.

Your video on the epidemiology is disturbingly informational.

Note-January 30...over 30 days after the virus has been suspected and/or identified, the world health organization declares the outbreak a public health emergency of international concern.
    This is the same organization whose leader was “accused” of covering up 3 cholera epidemics. This is not the organization we need or want to have any semblance of politicization whatsoever.  This is where everyone’s b.s. detector should go into overdrive. Can you imagine chinas control over some such entity?  Put it this way...the only thing worse than this outbreak having it’s origins in China Is if a nuclear incident did the same. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/13/health/candidate-who-director-general-ethiopia-cholera-outbreaks.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: DegenerateDish on February 27, 2020, 10:40:43 AM

I saw that Japan is closing their schools for a month. I always also think the market knows more than anyone else, so I'm at the point where I'm going to go stock up on non-perishables, and explain to my kids what's going on in the world and how that might impact things.

Our company ceased all international travel effective immediately this morning, and advised that any meetings that can be done domestically over video conference should start immediately over domestic travel.

I'm not the kind of person to usually be skeptical about the hype around these types of things, but I also want to be practical and prepare. I forgot who said it in this thread, but stocking up on things like pasta, frozen foods, can't hurt. Gonna use them eventually anyway, might as well buy a bunch in case we all have to hunker down.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on February 27, 2020, 11:27:18 AM

Serious question, though .. once COVID19 is widespread .. enough to be, for example, in Milwaukee, would quarantines matter?   

What's the theory of what could happen?    I don't see the food/grocery industry crumbling, besides some specifics being halted.    If it was widespread, I don't see mass quarantines being effective -- the horse has left the barn.

So .. what's the theory? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on February 27, 2020, 11:41:52 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 27, 2020, 11:27:18 AM

Serious question, though .. once COVID19 is widespread .. enough to be, for example, in Milwaukee, would quarantines matter?   

What's the theory of what could happen?    I don't see the food/grocery industry crumbling, besides some specifics being halted.    If it was widespread, I don't see mass quarantines being effective -- the horse has left the barn.

So .. what's the theory?

Good question.

Does it just become a seasonal thing like the flu at that point? If so, do we get some respite by the time May rolls around? Might give more time to prepare for the next round with vaccines, antivirals, etc. like we handle the flu.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: real chili 83 on February 27, 2020, 11:44:48 AM

I’m going to get inoculated at Real Chili Saturday night.  The cure for whatever ails you.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on February 27, 2020, 11:53:40 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 27, 2020, 11:27:18 AM

Serious question, though .. once COVID19 is widespread .. enough to be, for example, in Milwaukee, would quarantines matter?   

What's the theory of what could happen?    I don't see the food/grocery industry crumbling, besides some specifics being halted.    If it was widespread, I don't see mass quarantines being effective -- the horse has left the barn.

So .. what's the theory?

Remember how N1H1 crippled everything in 2009......yeah nobody does. I think there is no doubt that a Covid-19 pandemic would be tragic for those impacted but I have yet to see anything that tells me this is some sort of crippling event. It could be and you generally want to fight to take that outcome off the table so all actions to date make sense but I'm not anywhere near to putting my money into canned foods and shotgun shells.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on February 27, 2020, 12:10:46 PM

Luckily, CDC has an answer just for this

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/summary.html

Quote

What May Happen
More cases are likely to be identified in the coming days, including more cases in the United States. It’s also likely that person-to-person spread will continue to occur, including in the United States. Widespread transmission of COVID-19 in the United States would translate into large numbers of people needing medical care at the same time. Schools, childcare centers, workplaces, and other places for mass gatherings may experience more absenteeism. Public health and healthcare systems may become overloaded, with elevated rates of hospitalizations and deaths. Other critical infrastructure, such as law enforcement, emergency medical services, and transportation industry may also be affected. Health care providers and hospitals may be overwhelmed. At this time, there is no vaccine to protect against COVID-19 and no medications approved to treat it. Nonpharmaceutical interventions would be the most important response strategy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on February 27, 2020, 12:17:30 PM

I've seen at least one upper level pro soccer match in Europe played in an empty stadium due to concerns.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on February 27, 2020, 12:40:49 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 27, 2020, 11:27:18 AM

Serious question, though .. once COVID19 is widespread .. enough to be, for example, in Milwaukee, would quarantines matter?   

What's the theory of what could happen?    I don't see the food/grocery industry crumbling, besides some specifics being halted.    If it was widespread, I don't see mass quarantines being effective -- the horse has left the barn.

So .. what's the theory?

Exactly.  I thought about buying some extra N95's yesterday just to have on hand, and I had second thoughts about the risks of taking a flight to go see some stupid basketball tournament.

Then I had an epiphany because it is not just some stupid basketball tournament and everyone's sold out of masks... so I asked myself what's the downside, Benny?  The downside is postponing exposure to the virus.

Any non-millennials remember chicken pox parties?

Yes, I realize this is going to be a very unpopular opinion, but I would rather be one of the first 10,000 cases in the US than one of ten million cases.  If there is a modicum of inevitability here, send me some of that delicious Wuhan pork belly right now, because the sooner I can get into the hospital, the sooner I can get out... and I'd rather get in while there's still a good supply of beds, supplies, staff, etc.  That said, I'm in perfect health, I don't smoke, and as long as my hermetic cube has wi-fi, I can work.  So I'd much rather take my chances with a virus having a 0.9% risk given my access to proper medical care.

In the absence of vaccination, inoculation is preferable to the futility of prevention.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on February 27, 2020, 01:03:48 PM

I just noticed something interesting. Every time there's a new post in this thread, the Dow rises by 2% or drops by 4%.

Oops...there it goes again.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: RushmoreAcademy on February 27, 2020, 01:20:47 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on February 27, 2020, 12:17:30 PM

I've seen at least one upper level pro soccer match in Europe played in an empty stadium due to concerns.

What affect will it have on the MU student section?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: DegenerateDish on February 27, 2020, 01:21:48 PM

Quote from: Benny B on February 27, 2020, 12:40:49 PM

Exactly.  I thought about buying some extra N95's yesterday just to have on hand, and I had second thoughts about the risks of taking a flight to go see some stupid basketball tournament.

Then I had an epiphany because it is not just some stupid basketball tournament and everyone's sold out of masks... so I asked myself what's the downside, Benny?  The downside is postponing exposure to the virus.

Any non-millennials remember chicken pox parties?

Yes, I realize this is going to be a very unpopular opinion, but I would rather be one of the first 10,000 cases in the US than one of ten million cases.  If there is a modicum of inevitability here, send me some of that delicious Wuhan pork belly right now, because the sooner I can get into the hospital, the sooner I can get out... and I'd rather get in while there's still a good supply of beds, supplies, staff, etc.  That said, I'm in perfect health, I don't smoke, and as long as my hermetic cube has wi-fi, I can work.  So I'd much rather take my chances with a virus having a 0.9% risk given my access to proper medical care.

In the absence of vaccination, inoculation is preferable to the futility of prevention.

I'm going to ask an incredibly dumb question...

So once you get it, and it passes through your system, are you then fine from getting the same strain again? I mean I know I can get the flu multiple times in the year, I guess what I'm asking is to your point, if I get it, get done with it, am I then fine to be around other people that have it?

Feel free to call me dumb for asking this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on February 27, 2020, 01:23:57 PM

Quote from: Benny B on February 27, 2020, 12:40:49 PM

The downside is postponing exposure to the virus.

Any non-millennials remember chicken pox parties?

Yes, I realize this is going to be a very unpopular opinion, but I would rather be one of the first 10,000 cases in the US than one of ten million cases.

I kinda agree, but I think I'll let you try it first.

Another though, all this NCAA tournament talk... If it spreads enough that teams start getting it (forget the fans), you have to postpone... Right?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on February 27, 2020, 01:36:23 PM

Quote from: MUDish on February 27, 2020, 01:21:48 PM

I'm going to ask an incredibly dumb question...

So once you get it, and it passes through your system, are you then fine from getting the same strain again? I mean I know I can get the flu multiple times in the year, I guess what I'm asking is to your point, if I get it, get done with it, am I then fine to be around other people that have it?

Feel free to call me dumb for asking this.

Yes.  You should be innoculated for the rest of your life providing you get it strong enough to develop the antibodies or your immune system isn't compromised.

If you get the flu multiple times in a year, you are getting different strains.  (And I really doubt that is happening - you are most likely getting a norovirus that people are incorrectly calling the flu)

And this is what bothers me about when people don't get the flu shot and complain that they get sick anyway.  You aren't likely getting the flu.  The last time I had the flu, I was knocked out for a week.  It's much different than a 24-48 hour bug.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on February 27, 2020, 01:38:16 PM

Quote from: MUDish on February 27, 2020, 10:40:43 AM

I saw that Japan is closing their schools for a month. I always also think the market knows more than anyone else, so I'm at the point where I'm going to go stock up on non-perishables, and explain to my kids what's going on in the world and how that might impact things.

I will say one thing about the market reaction.  There will absolutely be a global impact on supply chain and the like, but this market was euphoric and apparently immune to any negative stimulus for the last 6-9 months.  There was a BIG gap to backfill, and this is the first geopolitical factor to start pushing it.  We've just backfilled to December.  So I don't know if thats a good indicator of how serious it is in a pandemic sense, but rather all the blind buying has finally been forced to address the worlds second largest economy essentially shutting down for a month.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on February 27, 2020, 01:41:21 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on February 27, 2020, 01:36:23 PM

Yes.  You should be innoculated for the rest of your life providing you get it strong enough to develop the antibodies or your immune system isn't compromised.

And provided the virus doesn't mutate, which is a greater than 0% possibility.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on February 27, 2020, 01:42:42 PM

Quote from: Coleman on February 27, 2020, 01:41:21 PM

And provided the virus doesn't mutate, which is a greater than 0% possibility.

Right, but Dish was talking about the "same strain."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on February 27, 2020, 02:04:38 PM

Quote from: Benny B on February 27, 2020, 12:40:49 PM

Exactly.  I thought about buying some extra N95's yesterday just to have on hand..

I did this yesterday.  Amazon is basically out, so I turned to eBay.  Brought up a couple of "buy it now" pages.  After 5-10 minutes, I refreshed the pages and poof, one was gone .. the other went from $60 to $100 for a pack of 10 N95 masks.


I did another search and found a pack of 15 for $65 and bought it instantly.  I'll probably sell it for $6500 if it arrives in the mail. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on February 27, 2020, 02:10:14 PM

Quote from: MUDish on February 27, 2020, 01:21:48 PM

I'm going to ask an incredibly dumb question...

So once you get it, and it passes through your system, are you then fine from getting the same strain again? I mean I know I can get the flu multiple times in the year, I guess what I'm asking is to your point, if I get it, get done with it, am I then fine to be around other people that have it?

Feel free to call me dumb for asking this.

many unknowns yet...concerns that the virus could infect you, you recover, but the virus then remains dormant only to reoccur if you had say minimal to limited infection, your body doesn't develop as strong an antibody(s) toward, then you can become reinfected with the same virus from within your body

https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/484942-japan-confirms-first-case-of-person-reinfected

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on February 27, 2020, 02:12:41 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on February 27, 2020, 01:36:23 PM

Yes.  You should be innoculated for the rest of your life providing you get it strong enough to develop the antibodies or your immune system isn't compromised.

Let me start with: I'm not certain, please correct if I'm wrong

Just like the flu vaccine is only good for a short period (one "season"), you can also get the same flu strain every year - but not usually twice in a single year.

I don't think there's any "rest of your life" innoculations for any Coronavirus (which includes the common cold).  Otherwise we'd get a shot for that!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on February 27, 2020, 02:15:47 PM

Thanks rocket, I've heard murmurs of reinfections too (in Chinese medical staff), but don't want to spread that around much until we understand more.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on February 27, 2020, 02:19:13 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 27, 2020, 02:15:47 PM

Thanks rocket, I've heard murmurs of reinfections too (in Chinese medical staff), but don't want to spread that around much until we understand more.

One of the hallmarks of the 1918 flu was that some people who "recovered" from the influenza would relapse and die of ARDS (Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome) caused by a massive secondary infection of pneumonia. The idea that we've got to explain that is that the viral respiratory did enough damage to the lungs that people were at a hugely increased risk of secondary infection. I'm not sure whether there's enough time and trustworthy data about whether a similar secondary infection risk exists, but if it does that might explain "reinfections" and also be very concerning.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on February 27, 2020, 02:43:03 PM

Quote from: Coleman on February 27, 2020, 11:41:52 AM

Good question.

Does it just become a seasonal thing like the flu at that point? If so, do we get some respite by the time May rolls around? Might give more time to prepare for the next round with vaccines, antivirals, etc. like we handle the flu.

Coleman,. Read The Atlantic article.  Many epidemogists are already  of the opinion every fall will become Cold, Flu and Coronavirus season.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on February 27, 2020, 03:06:52 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on February 27, 2020, 01:36:23 PM

Yes.  You should be innoculated for the rest of your life providing you get it strong enough to develop the antibodies or your immune system isn't compromised.

If you get the flu multiple times in a year, you are getting different strains.  (And I really doubt that is happening - you are most likely getting a norovirus that people are incorrectly calling the flu)

And this is what bothers me about when people don't get the flu shot and complain that they get sick anyway.  You aren't likely getting the flu.  The last time I had the flu, I was knocked out for a week.  It's much different than a 24-48 hour bug.

I dont know that I would rely on this as fact.  I read something last night that someone in Japan was re-infected. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on February 27, 2020, 04:14:06 PM

I wouldn't rely on anything I post as fact.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on February 27, 2020, 05:04:32 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on February 27, 2020, 03:06:52 PM

I dont know that I would rely on this as fact.  I read something last night that someone in Japan was re-infected. 

Someone who stayed at a Holiday Inn Express please correct me if wrong, but aren't "dormancy" and "reinfection" different things?  (Fortunately) I'm not an expert with herpes, but when it recurs, I've never heard that called a re-infection.

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on February 27, 2020, 04:14:06 PM

I wouldn't rely on anything I post as fact.

Except the part about norovirus.... that one is facty, fact, fact, fact.  It's a Superfacta.  (It floors me just how many people don't understand that a "stomach flu" is not influenza.)




Still, the point remains... if infection is inevitable, the possibility of reinfection is irrelevant.  So why postpone until the big wave hits?  Why not get your laps in during low tide?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on February 27, 2020, 05:09:52 PM

Quote from: Benny B on February 27, 2020, 05:04:32 PM

Someone who stayed at a Holiday Inn Express please correct me if wrong, but aren't "dormancy" and "reinfection" different things?  (Fortunately) I'm not an expert with herpes, but when it recurs, I've never heard that called a re-infection.

This is the news article version — so Holiday Inn all the way.

 https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/484942-japan-confirms-first-case-of-person-reinfected (https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/484942-japan-confirms-first-case-of-person-reinfected)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on February 27, 2020, 05:29:52 PM

Quote from: RushmoreAcademy on February 27, 2020, 01:20:47 PM

What affect will it have on the MU student section?

Likely ta result in more booin', hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on February 27, 2020, 06:03:26 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on February 27, 2020, 01:36:23 PM

Yes.  You should be innoculated for the rest of your life providing you get it strong enough to develop the antibodies or your immune system isn't compromised.

If you get the flu multiple times in a year, you are getting different strains.  (And I really doubt that is happening - you are most likely getting a norovirus that people are incorrectly calling the flu)

And this is what bothers me about when people don't get the flu shot and complain that they get sick anyway.  You aren't likely getting the flu.  The last time I had the flu, I was knocked out for a week.  It's much different than a 24-48 hour bug.

No. There are already reported incidents of individuals getting infected a second time, only a month later. There will not be long-term immunity here. The common cold is caused by circulating coronavirus's that aren't mutating, we just don't generate long-term immunity against them.

So even if a vaccine is created, you'd likely need it quite regularly, and it would be only moderately effective.

edit: my apologies for restating the same thing others have now chimed in with. Didn't read through the entire thread yet.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on February 27, 2020, 06:07:40 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 27, 2020, 11:27:18 AM

Serious question, though .. once COVID19 is widespread .. enough to be, for example, in Milwaukee, would quarantines matter?   

What's the theory of what could happen?    I don't see the food/grocery industry crumbling, besides some specifics being halted.    If it was widespread, I don't see mass quarantines being effective -- the horse has left the barn.

So .. what's the theory?

This is a great question, and one I have pondered. At a certain tipping point, there will be no chance of containment anymore. After that point, containment will be very expensive, and will have no global effect. At that point any resources should be going to treat those afflicted.

Two problems with that. When is that point of no return? And politically speaking, no one is going to be ok with giving in and just focusing on treatment. Even more complicated by the fact that:

1) We do not have the medical resources to treat a large scale epidemic.
2) Even to maintain the status quo, we need equipment, resources, and medications that are largely produced in China, who isn't producing/distributing them right now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on February 27, 2020, 06:18:48 PM

My sister factory in Zhongshan is considering purchasing the machine used to make masks. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 27, 2020, 07:21:19 PM

Quote from: forgetful on February 27, 2020, 06:07:40 PM

This is a great question, and one I have pondered. At a certain tipping point, there will be no chance of containment anymore. After that point, containment will be very expensive, and will have no global effect. At that point any resources should be going to treat those afflicted.

Two problems with that. When is that point of no return? And politically speaking, no one is going to be ok with giving in and just focusing on treatment. Even more complicated by the fact that:

1) We do not have the medical resources to treat a large scale epidemic.
2) Even to maintain the status quo, we need equipment, resources, and medications that are largely produced in China, who isn't producing/distributing them right now.

Basically this.  The cat is out of the bag, and she isn't going back in.  And to use another turn of phrase, the wheels have come off the bus at this point.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on February 27, 2020, 09:02:42 PM

Quote from: forgetful on February 27, 2020, 06:03:26 PM

No. There are already reported incidents of individuals getting infected a second time, only a month later. There will not be long-term immunity here. The common cold is caused by circulating coronavirus's that aren't mutating, we just don't generate long-term immunity against them.

So even if a vaccine is created, you'd likely need it quite regularly, and it would be only moderately effective.

edit: my apologies for restating the same thing others have now chimed in with. Didn't read through the entire thread yet.

Are those people actually talking infected a second time?  Or did the original infection go dormant. Because I have been reading that while you are correct that lifetime immunity isn’t a thing, that how long immunity lasts with this isn’t known.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on February 27, 2020, 09:06:49 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on February 27, 2020, 06:18:48 PM

My sister factory in Zhongshan is considering purchasing the machine used to make masks.

which masks?  there are not enough of the n95's and if they weren't expensive 6 mos ago, i'm sure you aren't going to find them on sale now.  also, if you aren't infected, the masks aren't going to do anything for you. 



"Sorrell said there's no reason to use a surgical mask if you're healthy and not infected.

"The virus itself is so small that it can penetrate the mask," she said. "So it literally does nothing for you."

"The only reason to wear a surgical mask is if you're already infected with the virus and are quarantined, according to Sorrell. Hence, if you're staying at home from work or from school, and you're trying not to infect your family members, you should wear a mask.

Stanley Perlman, a professor of microbiology and immunology at Carver College of Medicine at University of Iowa and a longtime coronavirus researcher, said surgical masks aren't as good as keeping the virus out because they have larger pores."



https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/clarissajanlim/coronavirus-questions-masks-hand-sanitizers

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on February 27, 2020, 09:10:05 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on February 27, 2020, 09:02:42 PM

Are those people actually talking infected a second time?  Or did the original infection go dormant. Because I have been reading that while you are correct that lifetime immunity isn’t a thing, that how long immunity lasts with this isn’t known.

No possible way to know 100% either way. Honestly, I hope it is a reinfection. It being able to go dormant for a month would make it impossible to contain.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on February 27, 2020, 09:49:17 PM

Hmm.

https://www.cbs58.com/news/wisconsin-police-department-offers-to-test-your-meth-for-coronavirus

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on February 27, 2020, 11:04:10 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 27, 2020, 09:49:17 PM

Hmm.

https://www.cbs58.com/news/wisconsin-police-department-offers-to-test-your-meth-for-coronavirus

might as well get a tax stamp while they're at it ,ey

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 28, 2020, 04:59:49 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on February 27, 2020, 09:06:49 PM

which masks?  there are not enough of the n95's and if they weren't expensive 6 mos ago, i'm sure you aren't going to find them on sale now.  also, if you aren't infected, the masks aren't going to do anything for you. 



"Sorrell said there's no reason to use a surgical mask if you're healthy and not infected.

"The virus itself is so small that it can penetrate the mask," she said. "So it literally does nothing for you."

"The only reason to wear a surgical mask is if you're already infected with the virus and are quarantined, according to Sorrell. Hence, if you're staying at home from work or from school, and you're trying not to infect your family members, you should wear a mask.

Stanley Perlman, a professor of microbiology and immunology at Carver College of Medicine at University of Iowa and a longtime coronavirus researcher, said surgical masks aren't as good as keeping the virus out because they have larger pores."



https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/clarissajanlim/coronavirus-questions-masks-hand-sanitizers

From what I've read, the virus isn't airborne.  It does however reside on droplets and aerosol particles... which the N95 should easily block.  But I agree with your first sentence, and would add that buying up the machine that manufactures masks would probably be the definition of buying high.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on February 28, 2020, 10:27:29 AM

I remember exactly how excited Benny was when he imagined himself driving a B-2 to the liquor store for more tequila. 

Although, if I grew a beard, it would probably be more Joe Dirt than Tandy Miller.

(https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=59849.0;attach=8900;image)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on February 28, 2020, 08:21:35 PM

As someone once said, “it’s the economy, stupid”.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Phuket MU Fan on February 28, 2020, 08:48:21 PM

This article is slightly dated, but makes for interesting reading.

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/health-environment/article/3051068/we-owe-it-god-indonesia-prays-how-it-keeping

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: DiaperDandy on February 28, 2020, 09:17:22 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on February 27, 2020, 09:06:49 PM

which masks?  there are not enough of the n95's and if they weren't expensive 6 mos ago, i'm sure you aren't going to find them on sale now.  also, if you aren't infected, the masks aren't going to do anything for you. 





"Sorrell said there's no reason to use a surgical mask if you're healthy and not infected.

"The virus itself is so small that it can penetrate the mask," she said. "So it literally does nothing for you."

"The only reason to wear a surgical mask is if you're already infected with the virus and are quarantined, according to Sorrell. Hence, if you're staying at home from work or from school, and you're trying not to infect your family members, you should wear a mask.

Stanley Perlman, a professor of microbiology and immunology at Carver College of Medicine at University of Iowa and a longtime coronavirus researcher, said surgical masks aren't as good as keeping the virus out because they have larger pores."



https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/clarissajanlim/coronavirus-questions-masks-hand-sanitizers

I work in a hospital and happen to get fit tested each year for 95 masks so let me clarify.  The author Is correct in stating the surgical masks will not offer protection against the virus.  Surgical masks are used strictly
In the surgical field and their main purpose is so keep facial hair and large droplets of sweat/saliva from Entering the surgical field. 

The n95 is NOT a surgical mask
nor is it used by clinicians while working in the surgical field.  The n95 is a respirator rated mask
That shields you from airborn contaminants and pathogens.  It is worn by clinicians and staff when entering isolation rooms
To treat patients that are in isolation (think tB patients).  This mask will protect you from the virus if it is airborn and worn correctly (hence the fit test each year.  If worn incorrectly or with facial hair, the mask loses its ability to offer protection).  This mask may not offer 100% protection from the virus, however, I can guarantee you it will protect you a LOT better than a surgical mask.  I laugh whenever I see people in public wearing those things because they are not offering any type of protection...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 28, 2020, 09:51:06 PM

Quote from: DiaperDandy on February 28, 2020, 09:17:22 PM

I work in a hospital and happen to get fit tested each year for 95 masks so let me clarify.  The author Is correct in stating the surgical masks will not offer protection against the virus.  Surgical masks are used strictly
In the surgical field and their main purpose is so keep facial hair and large droplets of sweat/saliva from Entering the surgical field. 

The n95 is NOT a surgical mask
nor is it used by clinicians while working in the surgical field.  The n95 is a respirator rated mask
That shields you from airborn contaminants and pathogens.  It is worn by clinicians and staff when entering isolation rooms
To treat patients that are in isolation (think tB patients).  This mask will protect you from the virus if it is airborn and worn correctly (hence the fit test each year.  If worn incorrectly or with facial hair, the mask loses its ability to offer protection).  This mask may not offer 100% protection from the virus, however, I can guarantee you it will protect you a LOT better than a surgical mask.  I laugh whenever I see people in public wearing those things because they are not offering any type of protection...

The surgical masks worn in public are worn as a kindness if you are sick and don't want to spread to others.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on February 28, 2020, 11:37:04 PM

Quote from: DiaperDandy on February 28, 2020, 09:17:22 PM

I work in a hospital and happen to get fit tested each year for 95 masks so let me clarify.  The author Is correct in stating the surgical masks will not offer protection against the virus.  Surgical masks are used strictly
In the surgical field and their main purpose is so keep facial hair and large droplets of sweat/saliva from Entering the surgical field. 

The n95 is NOT a surgical mask
nor is it used by clinicians while working in the surgical field.  The n95 is a respirator rated mask
That shields you from airborn contaminants and pathogens.  It is worn by clinicians and staff when entering isolation rooms
To treat patients that are in isolation (think tB patients).  This mask will protect you from the virus if it is airborn and worn correctly (hence the fit test each year.  If worn incorrectly or with facial hair, the mask loses its ability to offer protection).  This mask may not offer 100% protection from the virus, however, I can guarantee you it will protect you a LOT better than a surgical mask.  I laugh whenever I see people in public wearing those things because they are not offering any type of protection...

good info DD!!  that's the stuff we need to hear. 

  hards comment is also insightful.      also, i think, many wear the mask for psychological purposes as well

hint,  if you are on a flight that isn't full and you want a little extra room, put one of those bad boys on or put a pair of sun glasses on to look extra bad ass

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on February 29, 2020, 08:10:06 AM

Here's the CDC Friday transcript.  A little light on info.  You can tell the message has been, ahem, softened by those above the CDC.  But hey, border control!

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/t0228-COVID-19-update.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 29, 2020, 08:30:32 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 19, 2020, 09:27:42 PM

South Koreas numbers today are... not reassuring.

10 days later, and they are over 3000.  They're the model.

Doomsday cult really had a incredible effect.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on February 29, 2020, 09:35:35 AM

We were all gonna die of AIDS if we came near, touched, or even sat on the same toilet seat as someone with HIV.

We were all gonna get brains that looked like Swiss cheese if we ate beef. We were all gonna die of Avian Flu, then Swine Flu, than MERS, then SARS, then Ebola.

Now we're all gonna die of coronavirus infection, or reinfection.

I get that any virus or any novel illness could be a blip on the screen or the end of humanity. But the reaction to this particular one is more extreme than any I can recall since the AIDS crisis. Maybe it's the 25-hour-per-day news cycle or maybe it's the real Armegeddon, but I'm not gonna let this affect my daily life any more than the others did. And in the unlikely event I die or get horribly ill, at least I will have lived my life the best I could.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on February 29, 2020, 09:41:56 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on February 29, 2020, 09:35:35 AM

I'm not gonna let this affect my daily life any more than the others did. And in the unlikely event I die or get horribly ill, at least I will have lived my life the best I could.

That's fair, and I'm not trying to fear-monger.  But I do think that people should understand that this is a serious illness.  China custom built 2 hospitals in a couple weeks to handle the cases.  That doesn't happen for the flu, though the hospitals were modeled after one that china built for Sars.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on February 29, 2020, 09:50:43 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 29, 2020, 08:10:06 AM

Here's the CDC Friday transcript.  A little light on info.  You can tell the message has been, ahem, softened by those above the CDC.  But hey, border control!

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/t0228-COVID-19-update.html

CDC has been silenced by the gov’t. All releases must be approved by Dear Leader or his anti-science Mini Me.

Following China’s model.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jsglow on February 29, 2020, 09:51:14 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on February 29, 2020, 09:35:35 AM

We were all gonna die of AIDS if we came near, touched, or even sat on the same toilet seat as someone with HIV.

We were all gonna get brains that looked like Swiss cheese if we ate beef. We were all gonna die of Avian Flu, then Swine Flu, than MERS, then SARS, then Ebola.

Now we're all gonna die of coronavirus infection, or reinfection.

I get that any virus or any novel illness could be a blip on the screen or the end of humanity. But the reaction to this particular one is more extreme than any I can recall since the AIDS crisis. Maybe it's the 25-hour-per-day news cycle or maybe it's the real Armegeddon, but I'm not gonna let this affect my daily life any more than the others did. And in the unlikely event I die or get horribly ill, at least I will have lived my life the best I could.

Word.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on February 29, 2020, 09:58:11 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on February 29, 2020, 09:35:35 AM

We were all gonna die of AIDS if we came near, touched, or even sat on the same toilet seat as someone with HIV.

We were all gonna get brains that looked like Swiss cheese if we ate beef. We were all gonna die of Avian Flu, then Swine Flu, than MERS, then SARS, then Ebola.

Now we're all gonna die of coronavirus infection, or reinfection.

I get that any virus or any novel illness could be a blip on the screen or the end of humanity. But the reaction to this particular one is more extreme than any I can recall since the AIDS crisis. Maybe it's the 25-hour-per-day news cycle or maybe it's the real Armegeddon, but I'm not gonna let this affect my daily life any more than the others did. And in the unlikely event I die or get horribly ill, at least I will have lived my life the best I could.

Regarding Avian flu, MERS, SARS, and Ebola. The reason millions didn't die on mass in the US and other major countries are two fold.

1. Nations immediately and aggressively responded on mass to stop the spread of the illnesses.
2. All of those were extremely deadly, and were not easy to spread. Meaning, when you became infectious, you were already near death and unable to spread it widely.

The former is true here, the latter is not, which makes this deadly if people do not take this extremely serious. Covid will already have a greater impact health wise and economy wise than any of the above.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on February 29, 2020, 10:08:04 AM

Fascinating read ..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/02/28/i-have-coronavirus-so-far-it-isnt-that-bad/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on February 29, 2020, 10:19:27 AM

This is a good topic without the politics.


https://youtu.be/39A7Tr-H29E

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 29, 2020, 11:31:36 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on February 29, 2020, 10:19:27 AM

This is a good topic without the politics.


https://youtu.be/39A7Tr-H29E

Ah yes, the, "Blame the media" dogs are out.  Dr. Drew is a media personality, barely a practicing doctor.  He is eating up the attention, just like he always has.  Maybe he should call up Dr. Phil and collaborate on how to save this process.

I'd say that in bizarro world, Dr. Drew is just trying to tow the Trump line here to get a job in the administration... but unfortunately...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on February 29, 2020, 01:38:11 PM

  see hards, you were all good until this-no need to bring politics into this. argue the facts that dr drew brings up-many more influenza cases, hospitalizations and deaths.  fact.  the dr phil comment further weakened your post.  barely a doctor?  so what does that mean?  he finished near the bottom of his class? doesn't matter if he completed all the requirements, he's a DOCTOR. 

    he's stating what he knows and believes.  if it just so happens the present administration has a spot or a need for dr drew, fine.  every admin seeks to add people who strengthen their positions regardless the issue, just as the opposing people do the same

  the media has been beating this issue up.  they are creating conversation with others that ad nothing but politics to this and that is the last thing we need right now.  ebola, i believe was much more deadly and everything worked out

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on February 29, 2020, 01:47:14 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on February 29, 2020, 01:38:11 PM

  see hards, you were all good until this-no need to bring politics into this. argue the facts that dr drew brings up-many more influenza cases, hospitalizations and deaths.  fact.  the dr phil comment further weakened your post.  barely a doctor?  so what does that mean?  he finished near the bottom of his class? doesn't matter if he completed all the requirements, he's a DOCTOR. 

    he's stating what he knows and believes.  if it just so happens the present administration has a spot or a need for dr drew, fine.  every admin seeks to add people who strengthen their positions regardless the issue, just as the opposing people do the same

  the media has been beating this issue up.  they are creating conversation with others that ad nothing but politics to this and that is the last thing we need right now.  ebola, i believe was much more deadly and everything worked out

Barely a doctor means that he doesn’t really practice medicine much. More interested in PR.

And Ebola was spread in a much different manner AND more deadly. Which is why it was easier to contain.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 29, 2020, 01:58:23 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on February 29, 2020, 01:38:11 PM

  see hards, you were all good until this-no need to bring politics into this. argue the facts that dr drew brings up-many more influenza cases, hospitalizations and deaths.  fact.  the dr phil comment further weakened your post.  barely a doctor?  so what does that mean?  he finished near the bottom of his class? doesn't matter if he completed all the requirements, he's a DOCTOR. 

    he's stating what he knows and believes.  if it just so happens the present administration has a spot or a need for dr drew, fine.  every admin seeks to add people who strengthen their positions regardless the issue, just as the opposing people do the same

  the media has been beating this issue up.  they are creating conversation with others that ad nothing but politics to this and that is the last thing we need right now.  ebola, i believe was much more deadly and everything worked out

He is a partisan hack, so I didn't really start this garbage.  Don't defend him, nor his claims.  You haven't until I said what I said.

And since you're saying a person like this should be in the administration, you're a partisan hack as well.  See how that works?  Doctor Drew is a trash ball... not because of his politics, but because he a self serving moron whose claim to fame is talking about STDs on MTV in the 90s.  He as much an expert on this as Joaquin Phoenix is on human rights.  He should be ignored.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on February 29, 2020, 06:48:45 PM

Somehow the pandemic thread is more grounded and less reactionary than  “Hanging at the Al” tonight. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on February 29, 2020, 08:32:38 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 29, 2020, 01:58:23 PM

He is a partisan hack, so I didn't really start this garbage.  Don't defend him, nor his claims.  You haven't until I said what I said.

And since you're saying a person like this should be in the administration, you're a partisan hack as well.  See how that works?  Doctor Drew is a trash ball... not because of his politics, but because he a self serving moron whose claim to fame is talking about STDs on MTV in the 90s.  He as much an expert on this as Joaquin Phoenix is on human rights.  He should be ignored.

so anyone who believes different from another is a "partisan hack?  interesting...not.  medicine is a science, human rights is not.  refute dr drews facts, fine.  people can choose to believe him or not, just as those who choose to believe the opposite..  that's the beauty of this country.  so is name calling i guess.

here's a good example- is dr sanjay gupta a doctor?  is he a "partisan hack"? 

    yes he is a doctor who happens to believe differently than i do, but i'm not going to refer to him as a hack.  you see where i am going with this?  no need for the inflammatory/ angry language

  never said he should or shouldn't be in this administration,  i said if...

so fluff, how much do you have to practice in order to be a doctor?  or how many patients?  nice try though.  if a woman is 1 or 2 mos. pregnant, she's barely pregnant, right?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on February 29, 2020, 08:42:47 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on February 29, 2020, 08:32:38 PM

so anyone who believes different from another is a "partisan hack?  interesting...not.  medicine is a science, human rights is not.  refute dr drews facts, fine.  people can choose to believe him or not, just as those who choose to believe the opposite..  that's the beauty of this country.  so is name calling i guess.

here's a good example- is dr sanjay gupta a doctor?  is he a "partisan hack"? 

    yes he is a doctor who happens to believe differently than i do, but i'm not going to refer to him as a hack.  you see where i am going with this?  no need for the inflammatory/ angry language

  never said he should or shouldn't be in this administration,  i said if...

so fluff, how much do you have to practice in order to be a doctor?  or how many patients?  nice try though.  if a woman is 1 or 2 mos. pregnant, she's barely pregnant, right?

I mean it’s not hard.

Doctors who don’t spend a lot of time practicing medicine, but use their credentials to pass themselves off as something of an expert, aren’t really doctoring. They’re pontificating.

And if you don’t think he’s a partisan hack, that tells me all I need to know about you.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on February 29, 2020, 09:32:21 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on February 29, 2020, 08:42:47 PM

I mean it’s not hard.

Doctors who don’t spend a lot of time practicing medicine, but use their credentials to pass themselves off as something of an expert, aren’t really doctoring. They’re pontificating.

And if you don’t think he’s a partisan hack, that tells me all I need to know about you.

  "a lot of time practicing medicine"  so what is enough time?  i didn't call dr sanjay gupta a "partisan hack"  does that tell you anything about me?  i didn't even call him "barely a doctor" even though i don't think he spends much time getting his hands dirty as he used to, but uses his credentials to pass himself off as an expert.

  if we are to get thru this as a country, who can we believe?  we need to stop the partisan crap and find a way to combat this virus for all us first, then the rest of the world.  just like when the O2 masks fall, we've got to help ourselves first before we can continue to help the others.     

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on February 29, 2020, 09:41:06 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on February 29, 2020, 09:32:21 PM

  "a lot of time practicing medicine"  so what is enough time?  i didn't call dr sanjay gupta a "partisan hack"  does that tell you anything about me?  i didn't even call him "barely a doctor" even though i don't think he spends much time getting his hands dirty as he used to, but uses his credentials to pass himself off as an expert.

  if we are to get thru this as a country, who can we believe?  we need to stop the partisan crap and find a way to combat this virus for all us first, then the rest of the world.  just like when the O2 masks fall, we've got to help ourselves first before we can continue to help the others.     

I don’t give a flying f*ck what you called Sanjay Gupta.  The fact that you’re defending Drew tells me all I need to know.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on February 29, 2020, 10:00:08 PM

I'll take the blame, I started politics with a jab at the CDC transcript appearing to be force fed.  Now the rest of you can knock it off.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on February 29, 2020, 11:18:04 PM

I was curious about some of the aspects comparing death statistics between influenza and Covid. It is true that those that are elderly are most likely to die (14.8% death rate for people over age 80), but comparing the death rate to influenza shows how much more dangerous Covid is.

For those between 10-19. You are 400 times more likely to die if you get infected with the coronavirus than the flu.
For those between 20-29. The likelihood is around 300 times more likely.
For those between 30-39. 125 times more likely.
For those between 40-49. 125 times more likely.
For those between 50-59. 125 times more likely.
For those between 60-69. 100 times more likely.
For those between 70-79. 60 times more likely.
For those between 80+. 30 times more likely.

So although the overall risk of dying is highest for those that are elderly. The young are hit comparatively harder by Covid.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 01, 2020, 12:02:00 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 29, 2020, 10:00:08 PM

I'll take the blame, I started politics with a jab at the CDC transcript appearing to be force fed.  Now the rest of you can knock it off.

I followed your lead. I will gladly let you take ALL of the blame.  8-)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 01, 2020, 06:08:12 AM

Quote from: forgetful on February 29, 2020, 11:18:04 PM

I was curious about some of the aspects comparing death statistics between influenza and Covid. It is true that those that are elderly are most likely to die (14.8% death rate for people over age 80), but comparing the death rate to influenza shows how much more dangerous Covid is.

For those between 10-19. You are 400 times more likely to die if you get infected with the coronavirus than the flu.
For those between 20-29. The likelihood is around 300 times more likely.
For those between 30-39. 125 times more likely.
For those between 40-49. 125 times more likely.
For those between 50-59. 125 times more likely.
For those between 60-69. 100 times more likely.
For those between 70-79. 60 times more likely.
For those between 80+. 30 times more likely.

So although the overall risk of dying is highest for those that are elderly. The young are hit comparatively harder by Covid.

Is't that the same thing that happened with the 1919 pandemic?  That it was the body's overreaction to the infection that killed more than the actual infection did?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 01, 2020, 08:46:43 AM

Interesting side effect:  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-51691967

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Goose on March 01, 2020, 09:44:25 AM

Topper

We have been monitoring the pollution and traffic pattern. While things are quite slow, things are picking up daily.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 01, 2020, 09:48:47 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on February 29, 2020, 08:32:38 PM

so anyone who believes different from another is a "partisan hack?  interesting...not.  medicine is a science, human rights is not.  refute dr drews facts, fine.  people can choose to believe him or not, just as those who choose to believe the opposite..  that's the beauty of this country.  so is name calling i guess.

here's a good example- is dr sanjay gupta a doctor?  is he a "partisan hack"? 

    yes he is a doctor who happens to believe differently than i do, but i'm not going to refer to him as a hack.  you see where i am going with this?  no need for the inflammatory/ angry language

  never said he should or shouldn't be in this administration,  i said if...

so fluff, how much do you have to practice in order to be a doctor?  or how many patients?  nice try though.  if a woman is 1 or 2 mos. pregnant, she's barely pregnant, right?

I'll take doctors who don't create stupid names for themselves and create media careers over these losers any day.  That's my point.  I don't give two turds about what Gupta has to say either.  Listen to experts, not people like Dr. Drew who are self serving entertainers.  This isn't difficult stuff.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 01, 2020, 10:19:17 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 01, 2020, 06:08:12 AM

Is't that the same thing that happened with the 1919 pandemic?  That it was the body's overreaction to the infection that killed more than the actual infection did?

Yes and no. The death rates are actually pretty low for young people from Covid, ~0.2%. Its just that only around 0.5 per 100,000 (0.0005%) die in that age range from the flu and/or pneumonia. It is their own immune system killing them.

The difference with the Spanish flu was that the actual death rate for young people was as large for the young as the 80+ group. That does not appear to be the case here.

For those keeping track at home. The death rates for coronavirus are about the same as for the Spanish flu.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 01, 2020, 11:01:19 AM

I really think this new focus on defusing hysteria is counter-productive.

The more hysteria, the more likely people go to hospitals and get tested. That makes it more likely they do not go to work, and do not spread this through their community. If they aren't worried, they'll go through life like normal and this thing becomes an epidemic across the US.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on March 01, 2020, 03:13:31 PM

Quote from: Goose on March 01, 2020, 09:44:25 AM

Topper

We have been monitoring the pollution and traffic pattern. While things are quite slow, things are picking up daily.

What are you seeing from your customers? I had a good chunk of my Chinese accounts go back into the office last week and were aiming at rush orders to be entered this week to start to catch up. Which is good news for us.

Quote from: forgetful on March 01, 2020, 11:01:19 AM

I really think this new focus on defusing hysteria is counter-productive.

The more hysteria, the more likely people go to hospitals and get tested. That makes it more likely they do not go to work, and do not spread this through their community. If they aren't worried, they'll go through life like normal and this thing becomes an epidemic across the US.

To play the devils advocate, or is it to get expectations and worry at a manageable level? People clearing out Costco for non-perishables and stocking up like the end of the world is coming is not productive either. My GF’s company in NYC was working on protocol for people working from home for up to 3 weeks.  When there hasn’t been a diagnosed case in the city yet.

Preparing for yet unseen snarls in the supply chain seems reasonable and necessary, as does corralling expectations that people will need to live in a well stocked, barricaded bubble until it’s been eradicated

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 01, 2020, 03:32:23 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on March 01, 2020, 03:13:31 PM

What are you seeing from your customers? I had a good chunk of my Chinese accounts go back into the office last week and were aiming at rush orders to be entered this week to start to catch up. Which is good news for us.

To play the devils advocate, or is it to get expectations and worry at a manageable level? People clearing out Costco for non-perishables and stocking up like the end of the world is coming is not productive either. My GF’s company in NYC was working on protocol for people working from home for up to 3 weeks.  When there hasn’t been a diagnosed case in the city yet.

Preparing for yet unseen snarls in the supply chain seems reasonable and necessary, as does corralling expectations that people will need to live in a well stocked, barricaded bubble until it’s been eradicated

Wags,
My sister company reopened last week and they believe they will be able to catch up working weekends.  The plant manager there said other companies were planning the same.

My trade show in Germany Mar 30-Apr 3 was officially postponed this morning.  It's an every-other-year show so I'm guessing they will run it in 2021 instead followed by 2022.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Goose on March 01, 2020, 03:41:10 PM

JWags

I am more concerned on the demand side moving forward. Supply chains are slowly opening up and believe, barring any additional impact in China in regards to the virus, that supply is not going to be an issue.

I am becoming more and more concerned on the demand side and economic affect by the day. Unknowns make decision making difficult and there are a slew of unknowns at the moment.

In addition, I remember my Dad telling me 40+years ago that you can talk yourself into a recession and that is my concern. I still believe the economic fall out is going by what this time in history is remembered for. Truthfully, would rather live with that than a big number of deaths and hope neither make this a bigger crisis.

Again, virtually all factories we work with are open, but degrees of production ranges from under 20% to about 80%. Shipping bottlenecks can be a problem in the short term, especially on the air freight side. Not many planes heading that way.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 01, 2020, 04:04:05 PM

Quote from: Goose on March 01, 2020, 03:41:10 PM

JWags

I am more concerned on the demand side moving forward. Supply chains are slowly opening up and believe, barring any additional impact in China in regards to the virus, that supply is not going to be an issue.

I am becoming more and more concerned on the demand side and economic affect by the day. Unknowns make decision making difficult and there are a slew of unknowns at the moment.

In addition, I remember my Dad telling me 40+years ago that you can talk yourself into a recession and that is my concern. I still believe the economic fall out is going by what this time in history is remembered for. Truthfully, would rather live with that than a big number of deaths and hope neither make this a bigger crisis.

Again, virtually all factories we work with are open, but degrees of production ranges from under 20% to about 80%. Shipping bottlenecks can be a problem in the short term, especially on the air freight side. Not many planes heading that way.

Manufacturing has been slow the last 9 months.  Every manufacturer I have spoken to recently has said the same. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on March 01, 2020, 04:16:34 PM

Goose and MU, appreciate the perspective.

My business is two fold here as not only production/manufacturing effected, but China is our second largest sales market (which was on track to become #1 with a bullet in 2018).

Diamonds and Jewelery sales ground to a halt with the trade war. Q4 2019 we started to see a bit of movement. Some of our bigger customers were buying at higher than Q1-Q3 levels, before the virus happened. So while demand still may be an issue moving forward, we are working off of 80%ish pullbacks in 2019 from what we were used to seeing, so we’d frankly be thrilled with clawing any of that back even if demand is weakened.

Hoping that this may actually be a net positive for the trade situation and we see injections to stimulate the Chinese economy that inspires some consumer confidence.

I’m expecting March to be cautious and then a spike in April/May, which for my business would be welcome cause May-July is traditionally very slow

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Goose on March 01, 2020, 04:37:24 PM

MU Fan

I think manufacturing has been slow for far longer than nine months. That said, somewhat hard to quantify because of the great of over capacity in many sectors. Too many factories making the same products makes it difficult to judge. There are going to be a lot of shuttered factories in the upcoming months.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 01, 2020, 05:44:19 PM

Quote from: Goose on March 01, 2020, 04:37:24 PM

MU Fan

I think manufacturing has been slow for far longer than nine months. That said, somewhat hard to quantify because of the great of over capacity in many sectors. Too many factories making the same products makes it difficult to judge. There are going to be a lot of shuttered factories in the upcoming months.

Goose,
I agree with what you said.  And to piggyback oversupply:
What I don't like and I've seen, and I've heard from others the same, is seeing my competitors drop prices to ridiculous low prices and I have to also just to retain business   My company's in a niche market and mine is recognized s the quality leader.  I get "The other guy dropped his price and I'll pay more for your product but not that much more.". Then we have to evaluate if we can offer something barely profitable.  The worst part is there is no way the competitors are making much if anything at the offered prices.  We know the process and their geographic location and it's not the Far East.  Everyone loses.
Automotive customers are a blessing because they hate qualifying new suppliers.  Too much expensive testing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Goose on March 01, 2020, 06:43:01 PM

MU Fan

We are putting a lot of time and money qualifying new suppliers in Vietnam and lack of supply capacity is a big issue. Finding right suppliers is a challenge in some industries, finding suppliers that can take and make volume is a bigger obstacle for us.

We have had a high rate of inquiries from tier one and tier two auto component suppliers looking to qualify suppliers in Vietnam and Thailand. Thailand is further along in auto components, but I believe Vietnam is going to catch up in short order.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 01, 2020, 10:27:52 PM

Quote from: Goose on March 01, 2020, 06:43:01 PM

MU Fan

We are putting a lot of time and money qualifying new suppliers in Vietnam and lack of supply capacity is a big issue. Finding right suppliers is a challenge in some industries, finding suppliers that can take and make volume is a bigger obstacle for us.

We have had a high rate of inquiries from tier one and tier two auto component suppliers looking to qualify suppliers in Vietnam and Thailand. Thailand is further along in auto components, but I believe Vietnam is going to catch up in short order.

We're actually working with a customer in Vietnam.  We supply to this companies plants throughout the world and are trying to add this one.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: curbina on March 02, 2020, 12:22:44 AM

NCAA Pressured to Consider Playing March Madness With No Fans - Bloomberg

by Hailey Waller

The head of the National College Players Association says the NCAA may need to be play March Madness with no fans to protect college athletes from coronavirus.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-29/ncaa-pressured-to-consider-playing-march-madness-with-no-fans

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 02, 2020, 06:21:22 AM

to protect the athletes from contacting the virus?  that's got to be a misprint or your short sighted opinion, with all due respect.  we may have lionized certain people in our society, but if it weren't for the fans, these "athletes" wouldn't be worth a chit.  let's just say that if the games were to be canceled, it should be for the health and safety of everyone

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on March 02, 2020, 07:40:19 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 02, 2020, 06:21:22 AM

to protect the athletes from contacting the virus?  that's got to be a misprint or your short sighted opinion, with all due respect.  we may have lionized certain people in our society, but if it weren't for the fans, these "athletes" wouldn't be worth a chit.  let's just say that if the games were to be canceled, it should be for the health and safety of everyone

This came from the National College Players Association. They are going to focus on the group they represent. I’m sure they recognize that it would be done for the good of everyone, not just the players.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on March 02, 2020, 08:46:18 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 01, 2020, 06:08:12 AM

Is't that the same thing that happened with the 1919 pandemic?  That it was the body's overreaction to the infection that killed more than the actual infection did?

To my knowledge, Spanish flu killed in primarily two ways.

1. Cytokine storm, which was essentially the body's overreaction to the infection. People who died this way were often between 18-40ish years old and otherwise healthy. From first symptom to death was usually a rapid deterioration.

2. Secondary pneumonia. The primary virus did enough damage to the respiratory system that bacterial pneumonias were extremely easy to contract and extremely hard to fight. This was so common that the researchers named a *bacteria* Haemophilus influenzae because they were convinced it was the cause of the flu. (1918-1919 was really the hinge point of when medical science started to get its feet on the ground).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 02, 2020, 10:15:43 AM

Quote from: jficke13 on March 02, 2020, 08:46:18 AM

To my knowledge, Spanish flu killed in primarily two ways.

1. Cytokine storm, which was essentially the body's overreaction to the infection. People who died this way were often between 18-40ish years old and otherwise healthy. From first symptom to death was usually a rapid deterioration.

2. Secondary pneumonia. The primary virus did enough damage to the respiratory system that bacterial pneumonias were extremely easy to contract and extremely hard to fight. This was so common that the researchers named a *bacteria* Haemophilus influenzae because they were convinced it was the cause of the flu. (1918-1919 was really the hinge point of when medical science started to get its feet on the ground).

Thank you.  I was think primarily of #1. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on March 02, 2020, 11:10:34 AM

Quote from: forgetful on February 29, 2020, 11:18:04 PM

I was curious about some of the aspects comparing death statistics between influenza and Covid. It is true that those that are elderly are most likely to die (14.8% death rate for people over age 80), but comparing the death rate to influenza shows how much more dangerous Covid is.

For those between 10-19. You are 400 times more likely to die if you get infected with the coronavirus than the flu.
For those between 20-29. The likelihood is around 300 times more likely.
For those between 30-39. 125 times more likely.
For those between 40-49. 125 times more likely.
For those between 50-59. 125 times more likely.
For those between 60-69. 100 times more likely.
For those between 70-79. 60 times more likely.
For those between 80+. 30 times more likely.

So although the overall risk of dying is highest for those that are elderly. The young are hit comparatively harder by Covid.

I see what you're trying to say, but you're doing a really good job of not saying it well.

Instead of giving the sensationalism of the multiplier, the data would be of much greater value if you showed the death rate for each of the cohorts side by side.

Also, are you talking just Covid-19 or any coronavirus?

For example... who's being hit "comparatively" harder in the following scenario?
10-19: death rate from flu 0.00001%; death rate from coronavirus 0.004%  (400 times greater)
80+: death rate from flu 0.667%; death rate from coronavirus 20%  (30 times greater)

Without perspective, facts still matter.  Statistics don't.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 02, 2020, 11:22:44 AM

Quote from: curbina on March 02, 2020, 12:22:44 AM

NCAA Pressured to Consider Playing March Madness With No Fans - Bloomberg

by Hailey Waller

The head of the National College Players Association says the NCAA may need to be play March Madness with no fans to protect college athletes from coronavirus.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-29/ncaa-pressured-to-consider-playing-march-madness-with-no-fans

lmfao.  So protect the kids when they are playing in the tournament by banning fans.  What about the rest of the time these kids are moving about the REAL WORLD?

I get what he is trying to do, but my Lord, what a dipstick.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on March 02, 2020, 11:39:26 AM

Quote from: jficke13 on March 02, 2020, 08:46:18 AM

To my knowledge, Spanish flu killed in primarily two ways.

1. Cytokine storm, which was essentially the body's overreaction to the infection. People who died this way were often between 18-40ish years old and otherwise healthy. From first symptom to death was usually a rapid deterioration.

2. Secondary pneumonia. The primary virus did enough damage to the respiratory system that bacterial pneumonias were extremely easy to contract and extremely hard to fight. This was so common that the researchers named a *bacteria* Haemophilus influenzae because they were convinced it was the cause of the flu. (1918-1919 was really the hinge point of when medical science started to get its feet on the ground).

I think it was # 2 that killed both of the Dodge brothers leading to the forced sale of Dodge to Chrysler.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 02, 2020, 01:14:25 PM

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-02-29/coronavirus-end-game-will-be-nuisance-more-than-terror

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 02, 2020, 01:48:44 PM

Aren’t we down to zero cases in the U. S.?

That’s what we were told last week.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 02, 2020, 03:12:21 PM

gilead up almost 9% today.  hopefully their drug has been showing some efficacy in testing phase, maybe fast track it to some of the most severe cases?   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 02, 2020, 03:13:04 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 02, 2020, 01:48:44 PM

Aren’t we down to zero cases in the U. S.?

That’s what we were told last week.

ha!

But, seriously though, two just added to Wisconsin in the last hour.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 02, 2020, 03:30:45 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 02, 2020, 03:13:04 PM

ha!

But, seriously though, two just added to Wisconsin in the last hour.

source?

All I found was this: https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/two-more-people-are-being-tested-for-coronavirus-in-wisconsin

Which said "2 cases are pending".   (Admittedly, I would think 200 cases are pending..)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 02, 2020, 03:42:03 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 02, 2020, 03:30:45 PM

source?

All I found was this: https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/two-more-people-are-being-tested-for-coronavirus-in-wisconsin

Which said "2 cases are pending".   (Admittedly, I would think 200 cases are pending..)

Sorry, I should have said pending.  My mistake.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 02, 2020, 08:40:15 PM

I thought this was a good interview.

---

Coronavirus Is Loose in America. An Expert Explains Why You Shouldn’t Panic
Keep calm and wash your hands, a Columbia University virologist says. “The reality is we can’t just tell the whole world to stay home”

By TIM DICKINSON

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/containment-failed-coronavirus-spreading-america-960309/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 03, 2020, 08:37:02 AM

Transcript of Saturday CDC call:
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/t0229-COVID-19-update.html

And this was a pretty good read:
https://www.vox.com/2020/3/2/21161067/coronavirus-covid19-china

Something the US has failed at so far

Quote

In China, they have set up a giant network of fever hospitals. In some areas, a team can go to you and swab you and have an answer for you in four to seven hours. But you’ve got to be set up — speed is everything.

Also this...

Quote

China took a whole bunch of steps when they realized they had to repurpose big chunks of their hospital systems to [respond to the outbreak]. The first thing is, they said testing is free, treatment is free. Right now, there are huge barriers [to testing and treatment] in the West. You can get tested, but then you might be negative and have to foot the bill. In China, they realized those were barriers to people seeking care, so, as a state, they took over the payments for people whose insurance plans didn’t cover them. They tried to mitigate those barriers.

Seattle and Portland are pretty much shut down - well, lots working from home.  I guess rush hour in Portland last night was surreal (no rush).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 03, 2020, 09:15:11 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 03, 2020, 08:37:02 AM

Transcript of Saturday CDC call:
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/t0229-COVID-19-update.html

And this was a pretty good read:
https://www.vox.com/2020/3/2/21161067/coronavirus-covid19-china

Something the US has failed at so farAlso this...
Seattle and Portland are pretty much shut down - well, lots working from home.  I guess rush hour in Portland last night was surreal (no rush).

Well we are still in the denial phase.  Let's wait until someone famous gets it and croaks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 03, 2020, 09:25:23 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 03, 2020, 09:15:11 AM

Well we are still in the denial phase.  Let's wait until someone famous gets it and croaks.

As mentioned over in the Al board, testing in the US is not where it needs to be yet.  There are way more than 105 people infected - I'm certain.  I wouldn't be surprised if there's closer to 10k - just no tests to confirm yet.  I mean, there's 6 deaths - do we now think it's a 6% death rate?  Nope...

This is also a reason "confirmed" cases in China jumped when they finally got their testing in place.  Same thing will happen here.  It wasn't a coverup - it was just a lag in testing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on March 03, 2020, 10:49:38 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 03, 2020, 09:25:23 AM

As mentioned over in the Al board, testing in the US is not where it needs to be yet.  There are way more than 105 people infected - I'm certain.  I wouldn't be surprised if there's closer to 10k - just no tests to confirm yet.  I mean, there's 6 deaths - do we now think it's a 6% death rate?  Nope...

This is also a reason "confirmed" cases in China jumped when they finally got their testing in place.  Same thing will happen here.  It wasn't a coverup - it was just a lag in testing.

This I agree with.  Also why the "first case in X state!" rhetoric is so stupid.  There is a high probability its in every state now.  And thats fine.  Honestly the more cases, the lower the death rate and rate of "needed hospital attention" is, which goes well to quell hysteria.  Though I don't really trust any of the clickbait to embrace that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 03, 2020, 10:54:13 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on March 03, 2020, 10:49:38 AM

This I agree with.  Also why the "first case in X state!" rhetoric is so stupid.  There is a high probability its in every state now.  And thats fine.  Honestly the more cases, the lower the death rate and rate of "needed hospital attention" is, which goes well to quell hysteria.  Though I don't really trust any of the clickbait to embrace that.

Also the quicker herd immunity builds up.

I hate to say it, but we are past the point of preventing this. It is going to hit every corner of the country. But there's no reason to panic. There will be deaths, probably several thousand, just like there are with the flu every year, especially among vulnerable groups. It doesn't mean we should ignore it either. A firm, rapid response is important. We need to get this under control, and then when the weather gets warm for the summer we'll have a few months to firm up anti-virals and vaccines for the next season. COVID-19 will be part of our flu season going forward. We will have to adapt. It is not some big apocalyptic thing though.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 03, 2020, 11:07:56 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on March 03, 2020, 10:49:38 AM

This I agree with.  Also why the "first case in X state!" rhetoric is so stupid.  There is a high probability its in every state now.  And thats fine.  Honestly the more cases, the lower the death rate and rate of "needed hospital attention" is, which goes well to quell hysteria.  Though I don't really trust any of the clickbait to embrace that.

  one of the reasons i heard it seems more prevalent and the most problematic(at the moment) in state of washington is that it is a big hub for asian travel as well as california

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Goose on March 03, 2020, 11:38:36 AM

My daughter lives in Portland and told me over the weekend people were waiting for grocery stores to open up. She was at Trader Joe's late afternoon and said shelves were getting empty. Full disclosure, my 26 year MU grad had to ask me if any of any reason why the shelves were bare, so obviously the fear has not struck her as of yet.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 03, 2020, 11:50:21 AM

https://twitter.com/into_the_brush/status/1234685467682979840?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 03, 2020, 12:07:17 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 03, 2020, 11:50:21 AM

https://twitter.com/into_the_brush/status/1234685467682979840?s=19

Some of the responses to that tell me why we have such a problem with our attitudes toward health care in this country.  The lack of understanding about public health in general is pretty alarming.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 03, 2020, 01:29:01 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 03, 2020, 12:07:17 PM

Some of the responses to that tell me why we have such a problem with our attitudes toward health care in this country.  The lack of understanding about public health in general is pretty alarming.

Not to be a jackass but why didn't this lady just call her primary care doctor or go to her local hospital for care? Why mess with a Corona hotline and all of that jazz? If you are sick, contact a doctor. Regardless of whether they can "test" you, you need treatment for symptoms. This twitter post just seems like a scream for attention.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on March 03, 2020, 02:15:29 PM

Quote from: Coleman on March 03, 2020, 01:29:01 PM

Not to be a jackass but why didn't this lady just call her primary care doctor or go to her local hospital for care? Why mess with a Corona hotline and all of that jazz? If you are sick, contact a doctor. Regardless of whether they can "test" you, you need treatment for symptoms. This twitter post just seems like a scream for attention.

I had the perfect answer to your question, but it seems you've already answered it.   8-)


On a different note... CNBC just showed a picture of a Costco in Seattle with empty shelves in the paper goods aisle (toilet paper, paper towels, tissues, etc.).  I'm not surprised by the fact that people are stocking up, but I am surprised that Costco can't even keep the stores in its own backyard stocked.  Yet in the Chicago-area (where the 2nd US case was discovered 6 weeks ago, no less), there's no run on the stores anywhere... anecdotally, it's mostly shopping as usual. 

While this speaks to calm, it also seems to speak to widespread apathy and/or procrastination; I wasn't expecting depleted stocks, but I also wasn't expecting full shelves and short lines at Costco this past Sunday.  My concern here is that too little is being done... an individual's normal reaction to a situation becomes amplified as more people also experience the same situation; in other words, the more people remain unprepared - whether it's because they're being "calm," "responsible," "measured," or whatever - the more likely there's going to be a collective over-reaction at some point.


---[ASIDE]---

A new theory I overheard at lunch today: Most "doomsday preppers" (at least those in the public view) are radical right-wingers, and so there's a political ideology being attached to the decision one makes on whether or not to prepare for a potential crisis, even in the face of said crisis (as opposed to simply an unknown event), and the further left you go, the more resistant to prepare.  So the theory goes that Bernie's supporters are less likely to make preparations and/or take the necessary precautions in the event Covid goes mainstream in the US. 

Honestly, this is the dumbest thing I've heard in response to Covid-19 yet (yes, even more than the "go buy Bitcoin" rallying call)... and that applies whether it's true or false.  Whatever the case, people... PLEASE DON'T BE STUPID; political ideology should have ZERO effect on whether you're capable of making a rational decision that is beneficial to yourself and society... the last thing this country needs is a lot of Bernie Bros refusing to do anything because Trump said whatever,  because the more people delay, the more irrational the response (see above), not to mention, dead Bros don't vote.  DON'T BE STUPID.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 03, 2020, 02:24:43 PM

Quote from: Benny B on March 03, 2020, 02:15:29 PM

I had the perfect answer to your question, but it seems you've already answered it.   8-)


On a different note... CNBC just showed a picture of a Costco in Seattle with empty shelves in the paper goods aisle (toilet paper, paper towels, tissues, etc.).  I'm not surprised by the fact that people are stocking up, but I am surprised that Costco can't even keep the stores in its own backyard stocked.  Yet in the Chicago-area (where the 2nd US case was discovered 6 weeks ago, no less), there's no run on the stores anywhere... anecdotally, it's mostly shopping as usual. 

While this speaks to calm, it also seems to speak to widespread apathy and/or procrastination; I wasn't expecting depleted stocks, but I also wasn't expecting full shelves and short lines at Costco this past Sunday.  My concern here is that too little is being done... an individual's normal reaction to a situation becomes amplified as more people also experience the same situation; in other words, the more people remain unprepared - whether it's because they're being "calm," "responsible," "measured," or whatever - the more likely there's going to be a collective over-reaction at some point.


---[ASIDE]---

A new theory I overheard at lunch today: Most "doomsday preppers" (at least those in the public view) are radical right-wingers, and so there's a political ideology being attached to the decision one makes on whether or not to prepare for a potential crisis, even in the face of said crisis (as opposed to simply an unknown event), and the further left you go, the more resistant to prepare.  So the theory goes that Bernie's supporters are less likely to make preparations and/or take the necessary precautions in the event Covid goes mainstream in the US. 

Honestly, this is the dumbest thing I've heard in response to Covid-19 yet (yes, even more than the "go buy Bitcoin" rallying call)... and that applies whether it's true or false.  Whatever the case, people... PLEASE DON'T BE STUPID; political ideology should have ZERO effect on whether you're capable of making a rational decision that is beneficial to yourself and society... the last thing this country needs is a lot of Bernie Bros refusing to do anything because Trump said whatever,  because the more people delay, the more irrational the response (see above), not to mention, dead Bros don't vote.  DON'T BE STUPID.

I'm trying to toe a middle line here. I'm not doing any major prepping, but I'm making sure the advil is stocked, we have pasta and soup, toilet paper, etc. loaded up on baby formula and diapers.

it is all stuff we're eventually going to use anyway. but it doesn't hurt to make sure we have enough to get us through a week or two if needed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on March 03, 2020, 02:35:35 PM

Quote from: Coleman on March 03, 2020, 02:24:43 PM

I'm trying to toe a middle line here. I'm not doing any major prepping, but I'm making sure the advil is stocked, we have pasta and soup, toilet paper, etc. loaded up on baby formula and diapers.

it is all stuff we're eventually going to use anyway. but it doesn't hurt to make sure we have enough to get us through a week or two if needed.

This seems completely appropriate.  Everyone should - to the extent they have the means/capacity - have enough to get them through one week of "house arrest" (w/o Amazon deliveries).  Nobody needs to be digging a bunker in their backyard, but there's absolutely no harm in stocking up on things you're going to use even if a vaccine were introduced tomorrow.

[IMHO - Every parent should have a month's worth of diapers and wipes, minimum.  Not for covid, but because when the inevitable tummy bug hits, that month's supply is going to turn into a week's supply within a matter of hours.]

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 03, 2020, 02:37:16 PM

Quote from: Coleman on March 03, 2020, 02:24:43 PM

I'm trying to toe a middle line here. I'm not doing any major prepping, but I'm making sure the advil is stocked, we have pasta and soup, toilet paper, etc. loaded up on baby formula and diapers.

it is all stuff we're eventually going to use anyway. but it doesn't hurt to make sure we have enough to get us through a week or two if needed.

Same... mostly because I was too late to load up on condoms.

More seriously, there's nothing wrong with having extra toilet paper and other goods That'll get used eventually. When you see people walking out with lifetime supplies of dried rice and beans I can't help but laugh a bit.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 03, 2020, 02:42:12 PM

Quote from: Coleman on March 03, 2020, 02:24:43 PM

I'm trying to toe a middle line here. I'm not doing any major prepping, but I'm making sure the advil is stocked, we have pasta and soup, toilet paper, etc. loaded up on baby formula and diapers.

it is all stuff we're eventually going to use anyway. but it doesn't hurt to make sure we have enough to get us through a week or two if needed.

I mean, that's all I'm doing as well, and that is all anyone really should be doing.

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 03, 2020, 09:25:23 AM

As mentioned over in the Al board, testing in the US is not where it needs to be yet.  There are way more than 105 people infected - I'm certain.  I wouldn't be surprised if there's closer to 10k - just no tests to confirm yet.  I mean, there's 6 deaths - do we now think it's a 6% death rate?  Nope...

This is also a reason "confirmed" cases in China jumped when they finally got their testing in place.  Same thing will happen here.  It wasn't a coverup - it was just a lag in testing.

Well, we're up to 9 just a few hours later  :o

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 03, 2020, 02:44:16 PM

Here is the twitter account I follow for updates.  Very accurate info, and when there is a mistake they correct it.

https://twitter.com/BNODesk

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 03, 2020, 03:47:04 PM

Quote from: Coleman on March 03, 2020, 01:29:01 PM

Not to be a jackass but why didn't this lady just call her primary care doctor or go to her local hospital for care? Why mess with a Corona hotline and all of that jazz? If you are sick, contact a doctor. Regardless of whether they can "test" you, you need treatment for symptoms. This twitter post just seems like a scream for attention.

I think the last sentence speaks for itself - as that is how I see 99% of stuff on Twitter. You are right - she needs to get off of Twitter and go see a doctor.

But...,

I don't believe I have ever subscribed to a conspiracy theory in my entire life even once, but I may almost be coming close now. The lack of testing in this country is criminal. S. Korea is testing 15,000 people a day. England has set up over 100 testing sites. Yet, we do nothing. And since we were told that we would be down to ZERO cases by now, there is a real reason why our gov't isn't on board with wide scale testing.

Here's the problem though. When we are told that there are fewer than 100 cases and yet 9 people have already died - now a near 10% fatality rate IS ABSOLUTELY a reason to cause panic to the uninformed. Most reasonable people knows that there are 1,000s of cases that just haven't been confirmed with testing and that the fatality rate is in reality in the 1%-2% range or even lower. So by trying to keep total case numbers low, our gov't is feeding into the panic that can ensue when people see that according to gov't stats that we are suffering from a high fatality rate. The bureaucracy has been smashed to bits and it hurts us all in a time of crisis like this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 03, 2020, 03:58:12 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 03, 2020, 03:47:04 PM

I think the last sentence speaks for itself - as that is how I see 99% of stuff on Twitter. You are right - she needs to get off of Twitter and go see a doctor.

But...,

I don't believe I have ever subscribed to a conspiracy theory in my entire life even once, but I may almost be coming close now. The lack of testing in this country is criminal. S. Korea is testing 15,000 people a day. England has set up over 100 testing sites. Yet, we do nothing. And since we were told that we would be down to ZERO cases by now, there is a real reason why our gov't isn't on board with wide scale testing.

Here's the problem though. When we are told that there are fewer than 100 cases and yet 9 people have already died - now a near 10% fatality rate IS ABSOLUTELY a reason to cause panic to the uninformed. Most reasonable people knows that there are 1,000s of cases that just haven't been confirmed with testing and that the fatality rate is in reality in the 1%-2% range or even lower. So by trying to keep total case numbers low, our gov't is feeding into the panic that can ensue when people see that according to gov't stats that we are suffering from a high fatality rate. The bureaucracy has been smashed to bits and it hurts us all in a time of crisis like this.

Yeah I'm certainly not defending the Trump administration or its response. I think the lack of testing is mostly due to incompetence and an over concern with political appearances (par for the course), rather than some kind of orchestrated cover-up.

Trump is not a thoughtful or in the weeds guy. He wants to yell at Pharma CEOs and make them fix it. He wants to go on TV and tell everyone everything is going to be good, and hope it will. The thing his, for most of his first term, he has gotten lucky. Stuff has worked out. The economy has been on autopilot. We wave our dick at North Korea, and they back down. We kill an Iranian general, and they fumble the response and shoot down a commercial airliner. This is the first time he has actually had to respond to a complex situation.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: curbina on March 03, 2020, 04:08:09 PM

Five biotech stocks that are showing relative strength
(1) Vertex Pharmaceuticals, Inc. (VRTX)
(2) Regeneron Pharmaceuticals, Inc. (REGN)
(3) Seattle Genetics, Inc. (SGEN)
(4) AbbVie, Inc. (ABBV)
(5) Charles River Laboraties (CRL)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 03, 2020, 04:42:14 PM

Quote from: Goose on March 03, 2020, 11:38:36 AM

My daughter lives in Portland and told me over the weekend people were waiting for grocery stores to open up. She was at Trader Joe's late afternoon and said shelves were getting empty. Full disclosure, my 26 year MU grad had to ask me if any of any reason why the shelves were bare, so obviously the fear has not struck her as of yet.

Good to know that Aldi Joe's is there for all of the prepping hippies.   8-)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: DegenerateDish on March 03, 2020, 04:56:38 PM

Anyone else's company put total kabosh on travel? We got word this morning at my company (Fortune 500, 35,000 employees) that all domestic travel is immediately suspended.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 03, 2020, 05:01:54 PM

Quote from: MUDish on March 03, 2020, 04:56:38 PM

Anyone else's company put total kabosh on travel? We got word this morning at my company (Fortune 500, 35,000 employees) that all domestic travel is immediately suspended.

Most meetings can be done via web at this point.  I don't blame them.  Less employees that get it, less loss in productivity.  Not to mention, the appearance of trying to do something, rather than people getting upset that they need to put themselves in danger because the company doesn't take this seriously.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 03, 2020, 05:10:44 PM

I have a source to a healthcare provider, they've received thousands of calls to get tested. The CDC will send them 500 kits ... hopefully by Friday. Sigh.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 03, 2020, 05:18:59 PM

As an aside .. not sure why people are casting shade on this lady .. (https://twitter.com/into_the_brush/status/1234685467682979840)

She called a hotline, checked the CDC website, called two general docs, called an urgent care, called a hospital.  She did all that BEFORE she tweeted her story.   

She did everything right and tweeted how broken the system is.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on March 03, 2020, 06:28:58 PM

Quote from: MUDish on March 03, 2020, 04:56:38 PM

Anyone else's company put total kabosh on travel? We got word this morning at my company (Fortune 500, 35,000 employees) that all domestic travel is immediately suspended.

Not yet, and I have overnight travel 2-3 nights/week for next 4-5 weeks. Not leaving Southeast U.S. at least.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on March 03, 2020, 06:29:27 PM

I work for a national medical society. Our CEO is an MD whose specialization is in infectious disease.

He called a staff meeting today to tell us that every department should have a work-from-home contingency plan, just in case. He also said to stay at home if we or any of our family members feel ill, and to wash our hands. Also, he told us that masks are worthless to prevent catching the virus, and may be counterproductive because they trap moisture and prompt you to touch your face more often.

Overall, he did not seem overly worried; he just would prefer that we err on the side of caution.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on March 03, 2020, 07:00:43 PM

Is it political to ask why with 6 weeks notice our country has almost zero mass screening/testing in place?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 03, 2020, 07:19:56 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 03, 2020, 05:18:59 PM

As an aside .. not sure why people are casting shade on this lady .. (https://twitter.com/into_the_brush/status/1234685467682979840)

She called a hotline, checked the CDC website, called two general docs, called an urgent care, called a hospital.  She did all that BEFORE she tweeted her story.   

She did everything right and tweeted how broken the system is.

I was just going by what a Scooper had previously said.

Never a good idea.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 03, 2020, 07:23:01 PM

Quote from: reinko on March 03, 2020, 07:00:43 PM

Is it political to ask why with 6 weeks notice our country has almost zero mass screening/testing in place?

Might be considered to be political, but we ALL know why this is a sh*tshow. It's what happens when we destroy the bureaucracy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 03, 2020, 08:24:26 PM

Quote from: reinko on March 03, 2020, 07:00:43 PM

Is it political to ask why with 6 weeks notice our country has almost zero mass screening/testing in place?

6 weeks for a national emergency or 6 months?  depends on who you vote for, i guess.  Not trying to pull whataboutism, but things take time to develop, especially with China trying to keep things under wraps for several weeks/months.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_flu_pandemic_in_the_United_States (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_flu_pandemic_in_the_United_States)
History
The earliest reported cases in the US began appearing in late March 2009, in California,[118][119] then spread to infect people in Texas, New York, and assorted other states by mid-April. This spread continued across the country's population and by the end of May had infected citizens in all 50 states. The pattern continued through June of the same year. The total number of confirmed cases varied from 27,717[120] (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) confirmed and probable cases) and 25,453 (total of all state confirmed cases) as of June 26, 2009.

Towards the middle of June 2009, the number of US cases surpassed those of Mexico, which had been the previous leader in diagnosed cases of the disease. Toward the end of June 2009, the number of deaths related to the virus in the US surpassed those of all other countries as well.

On June 25, the CDC released information revealing that there were more than likely over one million (1,000,000) cases of the disease in the US, most of which had not been reported or diagnosed.[121][122]

Deaths relating to this new strain of influenza began appearing in the US in late April, and by early June 15, states had reported fatalities related to or directly occurring from the virus. These deaths totaled at 4,000 as of November 15, 2009. The CDC distributed a vaccine for the novel flu strain.[123] using mechanisms already in place for its Vaccines for Children (VFC) program.[124]

On October 24, 2009, President Barack Obama declared Swine Flu a national emergency in the United States. On November 12, 2009, the CDC reported an estimated 22 million Americans had been infected with 2009 A H1N1 and 4,000 Americans have died.[125] On December 10, 2009, the CDC reported an estimated 50 million Americans or 1 in 6 people had been infected with the 2009 A H1N1 Virus and 10,000 Americans had died, by which time the vaccine was beginning to be widely distributed to the general public by several states.[126] On December 23, 2009 the CDC reported a reduction of the disease by 59% percent and the disease was expected to end in the United States in January 2010.

On January 15, 2010, the CDC released new estimate figures for swine flu, saying it has sickened about 55 million Americans and killed about 11,160 from April through mid-December.[127] On February 12, 2010, the CDC released updated estimate figures for swine flu, reporting that, in total, 57 million Americans had been sickened, 257,000 had been hospitalised and 11,690 people had died (including 1,180 children) due to swine flu from April through to mid-January.[128]

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 03, 2020, 08:32:36 PM

Not exactly sure how the swine flu situation  is relevant. At all.

Read this.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/02/united-states-badly-bungled-coronavirus-testing-things-may-soon-improve

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on March 03, 2020, 08:40:27 PM

ZFB, then how can other first world countries have tens of thousands working tests at the ready and efficient screening procedures operating, while we just wait in like to buy toilet paper and Purell?

And you are right, past administrations gotta pass for their ineptitude, and who knows if history will other judge fairly or accordingly.  Probably not though.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 03, 2020, 09:11:42 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 03, 2020, 05:18:59 PM

As an aside .. not sure why people are casting shade on this lady .. (https://twitter.com/into_the_brush/status/1234685467682979840)

She called a hotline, checked the CDC website, called two general docs, called an urgent care, called a hospital.  She did all that BEFORE she tweeted her story.   

She did everything right and tweeted how broken the system is.

Because if I’m her I’m just going to a damn doctor and not messing with all of the other stuff. Not that hard to get into an urgent care

She wanted retweets

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 03, 2020, 09:19:08 PM

Quote from: Coleman on March 03, 2020, 09:11:42 PM

Because if I’m her I’m just going to a damn doctor and not messing with all of the other stuff. Not that hard to get into an urgent care

She wanted retweets

Then you would be wasting time and needlessly endangering others.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 03, 2020, 09:39:55 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 03, 2020, 09:19:08 PM

Then you would be wasting time and needlessly endangering others.

+1

1) If you feel really awful, like you can't breathe, go to the ER.

2) If you think you might have it (fever,  plus respiratory), call the doctor of your choice and see if they can test you.

3) If they say no, stay home and repeat #1 & #2.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 03, 2020, 10:35:45 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 03, 2020, 08:32:36 PM

Not exactly sure how the swine flu situation  is relevant. At all.

Read this.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/02/united-states-badly-bungled-coronavirus-testing-things-may-soon-improve

Because reinko mentioned politics and jock itch threw gas on the fire.  The swine flu was the last pandemic (not counting ebola, that was different) that the US has faced.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 03, 2020, 11:01:17 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 03, 2020, 10:35:45 PM

Because reinko mentioned politics and jock itch threw gas on the fire.  The swine flu was the last pandemic (not counting ebola, that was different) that the US has faced.

umm, you forgot coleman's diatribe on politics as well.  all i did was say it was the wrong thread, meaning it doesn't belong in ANY thread due to the politics and they erase my post?  colemans post could have lit the fire as well, but i was exercising restraint  something don't smell right here

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 03, 2020, 11:07:22 PM

Knock off the politics.  History is history.  The CDC hasn't moved fast enough.  Lay blame where you want, but don't do it here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 03, 2020, 11:54:15 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 03, 2020, 08:32:36 PM

Not exactly sure how the swine flu situation  is relevant. At all.

Read this.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/02/united-states-badly-bungled-coronavirus-testing-things-may-soon-improve

NM

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on March 04, 2020, 08:57:45 AM

When does the Fiserv ditch DIY touchscreens? Will computers/robots be replaced by people?! Context being I just read how all McDonalds touchscreens tested positive for fecal matter. We are doomed!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 04, 2020, 09:02:09 AM

Quote from: 21Jumpstreet on March 04, 2020, 08:57:45 AM

When does the Fiserv ditch DIY touchscreens? Will computers/robots be replaced by people?!

Interesting thought regarding automation. The technology is there to automate a wide variety of global production, the impetus to invest just wasn't there yet as it is cheaper just to produce traditional ways overseas.

If this continues to manifest global supply problems, then this may be the impetus needed for global automation.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 04, 2020, 09:02:17 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 03, 2020, 05:10:44 PM

I have a source to a healthcare provider, they've received thousands of calls to get tested. The CDC will send them 500 kits ... hopefully by Friday. Sigh.

Interesting, I have a first hand account that said that the UW head of infectious diseases says that the CDC has bungled this beyond belief, and that he is furious.  He has also said that stopping spread at this point is unavoidable, and that everyone should have two weeks of dry food on hand.

So that is not reassuring.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 04, 2020, 09:30:56 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 04, 2020, 09:02:17 AM

He has also said that stopping spread at this point is unavoidable, and that everyone should have two weeks of dry food on hand.

So that is not reassuring.

As time goes on .. I find that attitude surprising.  I think what we're going to discover is that COVID19 is widespread, like hundreds of thousands of people have it right this minute.   Hell, my son had a fever and a cough for three days last week.  We saw no doctor and just got through it.   I think tons of C19 cases are going to be like that.

Yes, it's infectious but so are 999 other viruses. 

32m people get the flu in the US, and only 310k of them get medical attention.  We don't have mass quarantines and runs on grocery stores. -- Even if you doubled those numbers for C19, I don't think you stock up your pantry.

I am not an expert but I've stayed at a Holiday Inn Express before.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 04, 2020, 10:11:20 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 04, 2020, 09:30:56 AM

As time goes on .. I find that attitude surprising.  I think what we're going to discover is that COVID19 is widespread, like hundreds of thousands of people have it right this minute.   Hell, my son had a fever and a cough for three days last week.  We saw no doctor and just got through it.   I think tons of C19 cases are going to be like that.

Yes, it's infectious but so are 999 other viruses. 

32m people get the flu in the US, and only 310k of them get medical attention.  We don't have mass quarantines and runs on grocery stores. -- Even if you doubled those numbers for C19, I don't think you stock up your pantry.

I am not an expert but I've stayed at a Holiday Inn Express before.

True enough.  Today the WHO said CFR (Case Fatality Rate) appears to be around 3.4%... which is actually quite bad.  I'm just worried that my parents generation (70+) is in much more trouble.  And, they are the ones that aren't taking this seriously.  My parents are getting on a plane to get on a cruise ship on Friday in SA.  I've done all I can to convince them that its a terrible idea, but my mother is a fatalist, so my warnings have fallen on deaf ears.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 04, 2020, 10:24:13 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 04, 2020, 10:11:20 AM

True enough.  Today the WHO said CFR (Case Fatality Rate) appears to be around 3.4%... which is actually quite bad.  I'm just worried that my parents generation (70+) is in much more trouble.  And, they are the ones that aren't taking this seriously.  My parents are getting on a plane to get on a cruise ship on Friday in SA.  I've done all I can to convince them that its a terrible idea, but my mother is a fatalist, so my warnings have fallen on deaf ears.

Yeah I have an octogenarian mother-in-law with a history of lung issues.  Living in an assisted living place with a bunch of similar people.  I am much more worried about her than I am my children or myself.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 04, 2020, 10:43:24 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 04, 2020, 10:11:20 AM

My parents are getting on a plane to get on a cruise ship on Friday in SA.  I've done all I can to convince them that its a terrible idea, but my mother is a fatalist, so my warnings have fallen on deaf ears.

We're getting on a cruise in two weeks.  Generally, a month out, there is no refund, so yeah, we, and your parents are rolling the dice .. but it's better than flushing thousands$.
Just remember .. Americans take 10m cruise trips per year, so ~27k per day are getting on, off ships, plus or minus.   With the exception of a few ships, all these passengers are fine, and 27k more tomorrow will be fine.
"Until they are not."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 04, 2020, 11:07:16 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 04, 2020, 09:02:17 AM

Interesting, I have a first hand account that said that the UW head of infectious diseases says that the CDC has bungled this beyond belief, and that he is furious.  He has also said that stopping spread at this point is unavoidable, and that everyone should have two weeks of dry food on hand.

So that is not reassuring.

Neither is banning cameras and recording devices at today's "public" hearing on corona virus .

Neither was Secretary Azar's fear of taking steps early - coordinating and getting CDC involved earlier - out of fear of offending the Prez.

We criticize China's response to the crisis - rightly so - but ours has been as bad or even worse.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on March 04, 2020, 11:09:36 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 04, 2020, 10:43:24 AM

We're getting on a cruise in two weeks.  Generally, a month out, there is no refund, so yeah, we, and your parents are rolling the dice .. but it's better than flushing thousands$.
Just remember .. Americans take 10m cruise trips per year, so ~27k per day are getting on, off ships, plus or minus.   With the exception of a few ships, all these passengers are fine, and 27k more tomorrow will be fine.
"Until they are not."

Then Arby’s.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 04, 2020, 11:14:00 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 04, 2020, 09:30:56 AM

As time goes on .. I find that attitude surprising.  I think what we're going to discover is that COVID19 is widespread, like hundreds of thousands of people have it right this minute.   Hell, my son had a fever and a cough for three days last week.  We saw no doctor and just got through it.   I think tons of C19 cases are going to be like that.

Yes, it's infectious but so are 999 other viruses. 

32m people get the flu in the US, and only 310k of them get medical attention.  We don't have mass quarantines and runs on grocery stores. -- Even if you doubled those numbers for C19, I don't think you stock up your pantry.

I am not an expert but I've stayed at a Holiday Inn Express before.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/out-of-over-6700-inbound-passengers-75-test-positive-for-covid-19-chinese-custom-officials/articleshow/74474673.cms?from=mdr

If you follow news outside of the US it largely confirms what you are saying. A lot of this news is being suppressed in the domestic news.

The links says that China tested 6700 inbound international travelers that had some sort of respiratory symptoms (essentially if you sniffle you are being tested). Of those over 700 are presumed positive and 75 have been confirmed. That means 1% are confirmed to have covid19, and up to 10% are infected.

This is why companies etc., are being so aggressive in banning travel.

China is testing essentially everyone, so they are getting the best data. The rest of the world, particularly the US is way behind the curve in testing and preparedness. Looks like it is already far more widespread than anyone here is suggesting.

Possibly good news, that means the fatality rate may be closer to 0.3% than the 3.4% reported by the WHO.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on March 04, 2020, 11:40:35 AM

Quote from: forgetful on March 04, 2020, 11:14:00 AM

Possibly good news, that means the fatality rate may be closer to 0.3% than the 3.4% reported by the WHO.

The WHO has been so terrible during this entire ordeal, I don't know why anyone is putting any stock into what they say at this point.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 04, 2020, 12:44:57 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 04, 2020, 09:30:56 AM

As time goes on .. I find that attitude surprising.  I think what we're going to discover is that COVID19 is widespread, like hundreds of thousands of people have it right this minute.   Hell, my son had a fever and a cough for three days last week.  We saw no doctor and just got through it.   I think tons of C19 cases are going to be like that.

Yes, it's infectious but so are 999 other viruses. 

32m people get the flu in the US, and only 310k of them get medical attention.  We don't have mass quarantines and runs on grocery stores. -- Even if you doubled those numbers for C19, I don't think you stock up your pantry.

I am not an expert but I've stayed at a Holiday Inn Express before.

my thoughts exactly!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 04, 2020, 01:00:16 PM

So evidently COVID-19 is already mutating... there are two identified strains. The newer strain is less deadly than the original. This makes sense as for the virus to survive it needs to keep hosts alive so they can pass it.

https://fortune.com/2020/03/04/coronavirus-mutating-second-strain-covid-19-wuhan-china/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on March 04, 2020, 01:27:31 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 03, 2020, 07:23:01 PM

Might be considered to be political, but we ALL know why this is a sh*tshow. It's what happens when we destroy the bureaucracy.

Actually, it's not political at all.  Bureaucracy is the writer, director and executive producer of the sh*tshow.

Ask yourself this... in a country where the average MD makes $300k, what kind of MD accepts a $100k/year job with the gov't (in the metro area with the highest cost of living in the country, no less)?  And is this the person you want managing a team of CDC researchers who are trying to get things under control?

(Answers: "One that waits for decisions to be made by someone else" and "fu@k no")

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 04, 2020, 01:37:57 PM

Quote from: Benny B on March 04, 2020, 01:27:31 PM

Actually, it's not political at all.  Bureaucracy is the writer, director and executive producer of the sh*tshow.

Ask yourself this... in a country where the average MD makes $300k, what kind of MD accepts a $100k/year job with the gov't (in the metro area with the highest cost of living in the country, no less)?  And is this the person you want managing a team of CDC researchers who are trying to get things under control?

(Answers: "One that waits for decisions to be made by someone else" and "fu@k no")

Also an answer: one who is participating in the student loan forgiveness program after entering into an agreement with the government that their loans will be eliminated after completing public work. But then at the end of their time, they get told "sorry, we're not honoring that"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 04, 2020, 02:54:23 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 04, 2020, 10:43:24 AM

We're getting on a cruise in two weeks.

Nice to know you.  Who did you will your Scoop moderation to?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on March 04, 2020, 03:33:50 PM

We just returned from Jamaica last week, today I read in the Jamaican Observer that they plan to begin heat screening incoming arrivals and likely put any persons with a fever in a 14 day quarantine. I hope no one has a fever from something non-COVID-19.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on March 04, 2020, 03:40:51 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 04, 2020, 01:37:57 PM

Also an answer: one who is participating in the student loan forgiveness program after entering into an agreement with the government that their loans will be eliminated after completing public work. But then at the end of their time, they get told "sorry, we're not honoring that"

In other words, someone who's easily duped by misinformation?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 04, 2020, 04:09:57 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 04, 2020, 02:54:23 PM

Nice to know you.  Who did you will your Scoop moderation to?

We're leaving you guys alone for a week, but I'll have the neighbors look in from time to time, so no parties.

Quote from: Greggery Peccary on March 04, 2020, 03:33:50 PM

We just returned from Jamaica last week, today I read in the Jamaican Observer that they plan to begin heat screening incoming arrivals and likely put any persons with a fever in a 14 day quarantine. I hope no one has a fever from something non-COVID-19.

Super .. our cruise has a stop in Jamaica.  I guess I'll pack a thermometer and not step off the boat if warm.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 04, 2020, 04:24:11 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 03, 2020, 05:10:44 PM

I have a source to a healthcare provider, they've received thousands of calls to get tested. The CDC will send them 500 kits ... hopefully by Friday. Sigh.

Friend in Florida went to urgent care with coronavirus symptoms here in Florida. Had been a conference with world wide attendance, as well as in an international terminal in the worlds busiest airport.
Was told that unless he traveled to China or Italy, there was no mechanism in place to test him for the virus. He's out wandering in the world untested.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 04, 2020, 04:32:31 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 04, 2020, 04:09:57 PM

We're leaving you guys alone for a week, but I'll have the neighbors look in from time to time, so no parties.

Super .. our cruise has a stop in Jamaica.  I guess I'll pack a thermometer and not step off the boat if warm.

We were in Mexico at an all-inclusive when the swine flu hit in 2009. We were screened for fevers when we were leaving Mexico(not coming in) at the airport in Mexico. My wife was all nervous we couldn't leave and started to sweat from nerves.....it was actually kind of hysterical to watch(see what I did there?).

At the end of the day, I believe these things:
1. Way more people in the US have/had Covid-19 than we currently know
2. The US government response to Covid-19 is both accidental and intentionally slow. I'm sure testing is slow because we actually don't want to "know" how many have had it for social and political reasons.
3. The lack of information and/or spread of misinformation is a feature not a bug of the mass media. They either knowingly or unknowingly are not asking the right question because there is much more value in panic clicks than reasoned information clicks.

This is clearly going to be a pandemic(already is) and while deaths as a result will be tragic I'm not sure how this is at all preventable and we should really be focusing on limiting the damage and/or building up people's resistance/recovery opportunities.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Billy Hoyle on March 04, 2020, 04:36:46 PM

college teams deciding against playing in Seattle or hosing teams from Seattle - UMKC and Chicago State. Though in CSU's case, 1) they won't be missed and 2) it's probably a cost savings ploy on their part seeing how the entire school is in danger of folding.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28833590/chicago-state-men-basketball-team-not-traveling-due-virus-women-home-games-canceled

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28837362/umkc-play-seattle-fear-coronavirus

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 04, 2020, 04:55:03 PM

Tax cuts are the best response?

Also, I think a major part of this in the US that doesn't get discussed is the culture of how "bad" it is to miss work if you're sick.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Billy Hoyle on March 04, 2020, 04:58:00 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 04, 2020, 04:55:03 PM

Tax cuts are the best response?

Also, I think a major part of this in the US that doesn't get discussed is the culture of how "bad" it is to miss work if you're sick.

especially for those who do not get sick pay.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: PointWarrior on March 04, 2020, 06:27:46 PM

living here in the CV hotbed of Seattle - good friend who has CV symptoms and an underlying medical condition obtained an order from their doctor to get tested.  They were turned away because they are only testing severely ill (i.e. dying) patients to prove they have it, no proactive testing. Told to go home as they will treat them the same way whether they tested positive or not.  Yep, left to wander the world untested, no peace of mind for those that have come in contact with them, and deeply concerned having an underlying health condition.

Do not let the clowns managing this fool you they have test for everyone who wants one or have this under control....

Quote from: pbiflyer on March 04, 2020, 04:24:11 PM

Friend in Florida went to urgent care with coronavirus symptoms here in Florida. Had been a conference with world wide attendance, as well as in an international terminal in the worlds busiest airport.
Was told that unless he traveled to China or Italy, there was no mechanism in place to test him for the virus. He's out wandering in the world untested.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on March 04, 2020, 06:39:26 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 04, 2020, 04:32:31 PM

3. The lack of information and/or spread of misinformation is a feature not a bug of the mass media. They either knowingly or unknowingly are not asking the right question because there is much more value in panic clicks than reasoned information clicks.

This is clearly going to be a pandemic(already is) and while deaths as a result will be tragic I'm not sure how this is at all preventable and we should really be focusing on limiting the damage and/or building up people's resistance/recovery opportunities.

Bingo. Ive been pretty firmly in the "stop panicking, be logical" camp when it comes to civilian approach and preparation, which has not went well with my GF in NYC who is in the midst of panic and paranoia and racing to the shelves.  That being said, the "counters" of infected people in the US and breaking alerts each time someone dies from CV is shameless click/eyebait designed to rev up the masses.  Cause fear sells and brings ratings.

Someone accused me earlier today of being "callous" towards the elderly when I commented how this is not something "normal" healthy 20/30/40 year olds should be stressing about, its more an elderly/pre-existing condition issue.  Not at all, but the media refuses to make that distinction for reasons mentioned above.  For example, the diagnosed lawyer in NYC has a respiartory condition and the woman who died in LA was elderly.  However, to find out that the majority of these critical or fatal cases is the listed deep in the articles or not at all.   Its wildly irresponsible for sanity and public response control, by design.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 04, 2020, 06:50:15 PM

My company just canceled all non essential travel and events. They also sent an email asking for people to consult federal guides before traveling.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 04, 2020, 07:02:08 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 04, 2020, 11:14:00 AM

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/out-of-over-6700-inbound-passengers-75-test-positive-for-covid-19-chinese-custom-officials/articleshow/74474673.cms?from=mdr

If you follow news outside of the US it largely confirms what you are saying. A lot of this news is being suppressed in the domestic news.

The links says that China tested 6700 inbound international travelers that had some sort of respiratory symptoms (essentially if you sniffle you are being tested). Of those over 700 are presumed positive and 75 have been confirmed. That means 1% are confirmed to have covid19, and up to 10% are infected.

This is why companies etc., are being so aggressive in banning travel.

China is testing essentially everyone, so they are getting the best data. The rest of the world, particularly the US is way behind the curve in testing and preparedness. Looks like it is already far more widespread than anyone here is suggesting.

Possibly good news, that means the fatality rate may be closer to 0.3% than the 3.4% reported by the WHO.

forgetful,
See the Rolling Stone interview with Columbia University Virologist that I linked.
She says exactly this.  So many people have and are not getting badly sick and don't get medical attention and don't show up in reporting and puts rate near your lesser estimate which is similar to a typical flu.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 04, 2020, 07:22:36 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 04, 2020, 10:11:20 AM

True enough.  Today the WHO said CFR (Case Fatality Rate) appears to be around 3.4%... which is actually quite bad.  I'm just worried that my parents generation (70+) is in much more trouble.  And, they are the ones that aren't taking this seriously.  My parents are getting on a plane to get on a cruise ship on Friday in SA.  I've done all I can to convince them that its a terrible idea, but my mother is a fatalist, so my warnings have fallen on deaf ears.

beware of the source, but interesting article from the epicenter shows the nmbers actually going down

   https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/03/809904660/why-the-death-rate-from-coronavirus-is-plunging-in-china

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: real chili 83 on March 04, 2020, 09:09:48 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on March 03, 2020, 06:29:27 PM

I work for a national medical society. Our CEO is an MD whose specialization is in infectious disease.

He called a staff meeting today to tell us that every department should have a work-from-home contingency plan, just in case. He also said to stay at home if we or any of our family members feel ill, and to wash our hands. Also, he told us that masks are worthless to prevent catching the virus, and may be counterproductive because they trap moisture and prompt you to touch your face more often.

Overall, he did not seem overly worried; he just would prefer that we err on the side of caution.

He’s right. That is built off of CDC guidance. I get to run our pandemic protocol. It’s much like what he said.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on March 04, 2020, 09:28:27 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 29, 2020, 11:31:36 AM

Ah yes, the, "Blame the media" dogs are out.  Dr. Drew is a media personality, barely a practicing doctor.  He is eating up the attention, just like he always has.  Maybe he should call up Dr. Phil and collaborate on how to save this process.

I'd say that in bizarro world, Dr. Drew is just trying to tow the Trump line here to get a job in the administration... but unfortunately...

He actively practices out west, is on the staff at a hospital, and teaches medicine at USC. 

The panic is not necessary.  One of President Obama’s health advisers made similar comments about misinformation and responsibility of reporting.

The mortality rate is dropping and lower than we think.

https://slate.com/technology/2020/03/coronavirus-mortality-rate-lower-than-we-think.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on March 04, 2020, 09:30:49 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on March 04, 2020, 09:15:35 PM

I keep seeing video of the thermometer guns... do they really work? ZFB told me the only reliable way to measure body temp is through the rear. (Or maybe it was my grandma... guarantee you after one time being suspected of running a temp, I never got sick again).

The expensive ones are good, the sub $100 not so much.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 05, 2020, 05:08:07 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on March 04, 2020, 06:39:26 PM

Bingo. Ive been pretty firmly in the "stop panicking, be logical" camp when it comes to civilian approach and preparation, which has not went well with my GF in NYC who is in the midst of panic and paranoia and racing to the shelves.  That being said, the "counters" of infected people in the US and breaking alerts each time someone dies from CV is shameless click/eyebait designed to rev up the masses.  Cause fear sells and brings ratings.

Someone accused me earlier today of being "callous" towards the elderly when I commented how this is not something "normal" healthy 20/30/40 year olds should be stressing about, its more an elderly/pre-existing condition issue.  Not at all, but the media refuses to make that distinction for reasons mentioned above.  For example, the diagnosed lawyer in NYC has a respiartory condition and the woman who died in LA was elderly.  However, to find out that the majority of these critical or fatal cases is the listed deep in the articles or not at all.   Its wildly irresponsible for sanity and public response control, by design.

The issue is that there should be something in place, where there is the appearance of nothing.  We need to let this happen, but it needs to happen SLOWLY.  If it burns fast and hard, we get panic.  If its slow, people just accept it for what it is.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 05, 2020, 05:42:00 AM

 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/04/health/coronavirus-china-aylward.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/04/health/coronavirus-china-aylward.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 05, 2020, 08:13:27 AM

A lot of people will have this and it’s very mild. They’ll get better very rapidly. They don’t even see a doctor. They don’t even call a doctor. You never hear about those people. So you can’t put them down in the category of the overall population in terms of this corona flu and/or virus. So you just can’t do that. So, if you know, we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work. Some of them go to work, but they get better.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on March 05, 2020, 09:41:35 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 04, 2020, 04:09:57 PM

We're leaving you guys alone for a week, but I'll have the neighbors look in from time to time, so no parties.

Super .. our cruise has a stop in Jamaica.  I guess I'll pack a thermometer and not step off the boat if warm.

It's Jamaica mon, things move on island time so more likely nothing is instituted until July after high $eason is over

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 05, 2020, 02:24:47 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 05, 2020, 08:13:27 AM

A lot of people will have this and it’s very mild. They’ll get better very rapidly. They don’t even see a doctor. They don’t even call a doctor. You never hear about those people. So you can’t put them down in the category of the overall population in terms of this corona flu and/or virus. So you just can’t do that. So, if you know, we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work. Some of them go to work, but they get better.

It's a question of intent. The point (I think, god help getting into that brain) he is making is that the statistics may, I'll say again, give a false representation of the actual deadly nature of the disease. If it's true that the majority of patients experience very mild symptoms we may not know how many are actually infected(especially given the lack of testing) meaning the denominator is smaller than actual so the fatality metric is misleading.

But what is the intent of that? To reduce panic or to be Kevin Bacon at the end of Animal House? Dunno

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: BM1090 on March 05, 2020, 04:53:11 PM

Quote from: MUDish on March 03, 2020, 04:56:38 PM

Anyone else's company put total kabosh on travel? We got word this morning at my company (Fortune 500, 35,000 employees) that all domestic travel is immediately suspended.

Fortune 150 company, similar number of employees. We got the same message today.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 05, 2020, 09:13:51 PM

Cleaned up a bunch of crap.  Not sorry if you posted something you thought was useful and it's gone now. 

Here's the CDC transcript from Mar 3 (sorry a little behind)
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/t0303-COVID-19-update.html

At least, they admit that numbers are gonna climb quick once their 75k test kits get to the destinations...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 05, 2020, 09:34:06 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 05, 2020, 05:08:07 AM

The issue is that there should be something in place, where there is the appearance of nothing.  We need to let this happen, but it needs to happen SLOWLY.  If it burns fast and hard, we get panic.  If its slow, people just accept it for what it is.

This is a really good point. The fatality rate is high in some locales, because they are inundated with cases. They do not have the resources to treat everyone with intensive care. So more die. If this happens and progresses slowly, the death rate can be kept low, by providing top of the line care for those that need it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 05, 2020, 11:52:55 PM

For those that like data, just came across the dashboard created by the Center for Systems Science and Engineering (CSSE) at Johns Hopkins University.  I mean, cool to watch while you're sitting around waiting for your 14 day quarantine to end...

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
https://systems.jhu.edu/research/public-health/ncov/

EDIT: Added the block to the top of this thread.  You can minimize the block if you don't like it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 05, 2020, 11:54:48 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 05, 2020, 09:34:06 PM

This is a really good point. The fatality rate is high in some locales, because they are inundated with cases. They do not have the resources to treat everyone with intensive care. So more die. If this happens and progresses slowly, the death rate can be kept low, by providing top of the line care for those that need it.

Another thing that has driven the high fatality rate is the toll in Iran through a combination of gov't incompetence and a medical system that is in shambles because of foreign sanctions.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 05, 2020, 11:57:51 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 05, 2020, 11:52:55 PM

For those that like data, just came across the dashboard created by the Center for Systems Science and Engineering (CSSE) at Johns Hopkins University.  I mean, cool to watch while you're sitting around waiting for your 14 day quarantine to end...

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
https://systems.jhu.edu/research/public-health/ncov/

Thanks. This is pretty cool.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 06, 2020, 06:39:26 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 05, 2020, 11:52:55 PM

For those that like data, just came across the dashboard created by the Center for Systems Science and Engineering (CSSE) at Johns Hopkins University.  I mean, cool to watch while you're sitting around waiting for your 14 day quarantine to end...

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
https://systems.jhu.edu/research/public-health/ncov/

EDIT: Added the block to the top of this thread.  You can minimize the block if you don't like it.

I had a customer meeting yesterday and she specifically mentioned she had been following this site regularly. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lighthouse 84 on March 06, 2020, 07:24:44 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 06, 2020, 06:39:26 AM

I had a customer meeting yesterday and she specifically mentioned she had been following this site regularly.

She follows Scoop regularly?   ;)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 06, 2020, 07:56:24 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 06, 2020, 06:39:26 AM

I had a customer meeting yesterday and she specifically mentioned she had been following this site regularly.

I wouldn't want to have a customer who would have this site as a favorite
-Groucho Marx

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: CreightonWarrior on March 06, 2020, 08:42:38 AM

This can't be great
CenturyLink Field employee who worked XFL game diagnosed with coronavirus (https://www.espn.com/xfl/story/_/id/28846329/centurylink-field-vendor-worked-xfl-game-diagnosed-coronavirus)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on March 06, 2020, 09:43:48 AM

Quote from: CreightonWarrior on March 06, 2020, 08:42:38 AM

This can't be great
CenturyLink Field employee who worked XFL game diagnosed with coronavirus (https://www.espn.com/xfl/story/_/id/28846329/centurylink-field-vendor-worked-xfl-game-diagnosed-coronavirus)

https://www.youtube.com/v/Srz9EtLCMQs

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on March 06, 2020, 10:20:06 AM

Quote from: CreightonWarrior on March 06, 2020, 08:42:38 AM

This can't be great
CenturyLink Field employee who worked XFL game diagnosed with coronavirus (https://www.espn.com/xfl/story/_/id/28846329/centurylink-field-vendor-worked-xfl-game-diagnosed-coronavirus)

Vince McMahon is a marketing genius. No one will go to the games, watch from home, and drive up TV ratings.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 06, 2020, 01:00:34 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 05, 2020, 09:34:06 PM

This is a really good point. The fatality rate is high in some locales, because they are inundated with cases. They do not have the resources to treat everyone with intensive care. So more die. If this happens and progresses slowly, the death rate can be kept low, by providing top of the line care for those that need it.

This is why the fatality rate has dropped dramatically in China, now under 1%, compared to what it was in the early days of the outbreak (10-15%)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 06, 2020, 04:21:18 PM

SXSW canceled

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 06, 2020, 04:31:23 PM

A few minutes ago we were told that EVERYONE who wants to get tested can get tested now.

The lies continue.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 06, 2020, 04:35:57 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 06, 2020, 04:31:23 PM

A few minutes ago we were told that EVERYONE who wants to get tested can get tested now.

The lies continue.

first of all-knock off the politics!!  secondly, do you have any proof other than not liking what you heard and who said it that this is a lie

this should be ban hammerable but... ?-(

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 06, 2020, 04:59:28 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 06, 2020, 04:31:23 PM

A few minutes ago we were told that EVERYONE who wants to get tested can get tested now.

The lies continue.

  the fact that you state this is a lie, is furthering the unnecessary hysteria of this unfortunate situation.  the swine flu was as bad if not worse than this and i don't recall all the sensationalism.  that one lasted roughly a year.  if this is a lie, then show us!  otherwise, stfu and learn something.  next thing ya know, you'll be blaming this on "nationalities" >:(

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Goose on March 06, 2020, 05:02:53 PM

Jockey
How to you continually get away with your political comments. The double standard allowed for some on here is a joke. Have to be honest, rather you pollute the non ball threads than trying to add your thoughts on the program.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 06, 2020, 06:20:40 PM

Actually Jockey is right on this one. My healthcare source confirms.  CDC has shipped 75k test kits. CDC says millions of independent tests can be used. That's false, the FDA hasn't approved those tests yet, so providers can't use them (my source deals directly with providers)

Max of 75k tests will be done by early next week, and following the 40% positive tend, total US  cases will be around 30k, but thousands more won't be tested.

If my numbers don't bear out, call me on it, but I think you'll see my way soon...

It's not political. Political are the spin that rocket and goose say we should believe.

edit: nobody called me on it, and I must have misread.  US test/positive ratio is about 10%

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on March 06, 2020, 06:33:19 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 05, 2020, 11:52:55 PM

For those that like data, just came across the dashboard created by the Center for Systems Science and Engineering (CSSE) at Johns Hopkins University.  I mean, cool to watch while you're sitting around waiting for your 14 day quarantine to end...

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
https://systems.jhu.edu/research/public-health/ncov/

EDIT: Added the block to the top of this thread.  You can minimize the block if you don't like it.

Can we get something like that for big east basketball scores?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on March 06, 2020, 07:58:24 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 06, 2020, 04:31:23 PM

A few minutes ago we were told that EVERYONE who wants to get tested can get tested now.

The lies continue.

Is that for US or Italy?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 06, 2020, 08:14:27 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 06, 2020, 06:20:40 PM

Actually Jockey is right on this one. My healthcare source confirms.  CDC has shipped 75k test kits. CDC says millions of independent tests can be used. That's false, the FDA hasn't approved those tests yet, so providers can't use them (my source deals directly with providers)

Max of 75k tests will be done by early next week, and following the 40% positive tend, total US  cases will be around 30k, but thousands more won't be tested.

If my numbers don't bear out, call me on it, but I think you'll see my way soon...

It's not political. Political are the spin that rocket and goose say we should believe.

  this is not correct rocky-anyone who needs the test can get tested.  you need a doctors orders however.  not just anyone can walk into a clinic and because they have a little cough demand a test.  they need the tests for those who exhibit more of the S & S's. 

   yes it was political because jock was citing president trump and pence's press conferences given just minutes("A few minutes ago we were told that EVERYONE who wants to get tested can get tested now.") before he posted his outrage.  i am going to take a wild guess here, but i don't think jocky boy is a big fan of this administration.

     given the parameters you set out earlier for this thread-to keep it on point and resourceful,  i would have thought even you would have expected some source for the "lie" jock was claiming.  ok, if it is a lie, who stated it?   yes, there are only a finite amount of tests available at this time but they are manufacturing them as quickly as possible.  the same with a potential anti-viral by gilead sciences(remdesivir) that has been in in clinical trials.  it was approximately a year out, but due to the obvious gravity of this situation, they are trying to fast forward it.  if it can saves lives, the risk-reward leans reward, we must proceed with caution
   statements such as the one posted by jock are recklessly divisive and at this time, there should be no one to blame except the wuhan people.  if you or jock or whoever can cite who stated "the lie" and it wasn't someone on the opposite side of the political spectrum from which they stand, i will be the first to apologize and give myself a self-ban for 2 weeks.  if i am correct, i would expect similar from jockey

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 06, 2020, 08:20:31 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 06, 2020, 08:14:27 PM

  this is not correct rocky-anyone who needs the test can get tested. 
[snip]
  yes, there are only a finite amount of tests available at this time but they are manufacturing them as quickly as possible.

So, it's a lie that anyone who needs a test can get one.  Confirmed.  Glad we agree.

Also, I'm well aware politicians said it.  Many politicians lie to try to save their ass.  Doesn't make it less of a lie.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on March 06, 2020, 08:21:57 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 06, 2020, 08:14:27 PM

  this is not correct rocky-anyone who needs the test can get tested.  you need a doctors orders however.  not just anyone can walk into a clinic and because they have a little cough demand a test.  they need the tests for those who exhibit more of the S & S's. 

   yes it was political because jock was citing president trump and pence's press conferences given just minutes("A few minutes ago we were told that EVERYONE who wants to get tested can get tested now.") before he posted his outrage.  i am going to take a wild guess here, but i don't think jocky boy is a big fan of this administration.

     given the parameters you set out earlier for this thread-to keep it on point and resourceful,  i would have thought even you would have expected some source for the "lie" jock was claiming.  ok, if it is a lie, who stated it?   yes, there are only a finite amount of tests available at this time but they are manufacturing them as quickly as possible.  the same with a potential anti-viral by gilead sciences(remdesivir) that has been in in clinical trials.  it was approximately a year out, but due to the obvious gravity of this situation, they are trying to fast forward it.  if it can saves lives, the risk-reward leans reward, we must proceed with caution
   statements such as the one posted by jock are recklessly divisive and at this time, there should be no one to blame except the wuhan people.  if you or jock or whoever can cite who stated "the lie" and it wasn't someone on the opposite side of the political spectrum from which they stand, i will be the first to apologize and give myself a self-ban for 2 weeks.  if i am correct, i would expect similar from jockey

  "not a political word" ??  and we all fell off the turnip train

 

No one to blame but the Wuhan people?!?

The quote was from less than 3 weeks ago my friend.

“I had a long talk with President Xi — for the people in this room — two nights ago, and he feels very confident. He feels very confident. And he feels that, again, as I mentioned, by April or during the month of April, the heat, generally speaking, kills this kind of virus. So that would be a good thing. But we’re in great shape in our country.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 06, 2020, 09:26:00 PM

Quote from: reinko on March 06, 2020, 08:21:57 PM

No one to blame but the Wuhan people?!?

The quote was from less than 3 weeks ago my friend.

“I had a long talk with President Xi — for the people in this room — two nights ago, and he feels very confident. He feels very confident. And he feels that, again, as I mentioned, by April or during the month of April, the heat, generally speaking, kills this kind of virus. So that would be a good thing. But we’re in great shape in our country.”

  you know what i mean reinko-the people who tried to keep it under wraps.  they should have alerted EVERYONE of this outbreak as soon as they knew.  the chinese officials/wuhan officials i am referring to.   china does not have a reputation for transparency.  this could have been minimized if proper steps were taken right off the bat

https://nypost.com/2020/02/29/china-officials-knew-of-coronavirus-in-december-ordered-cover-up-report-says/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: LloydsLegs on March 07, 2020, 07:23:28 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 06, 2020, 08:20:31 PM

So, it's a lie that anyone who needs a test can get one.  Confirmed.  Glad we agree.

Also, I'm well aware politicians said it.  Many politicians lie to try to save their ass.  Doesn't make it less of a lie.

To neutralize the politics, the WSJ (conservative editorial stance but with quality and usually independent news division) reports today that the test kits have been and continue to fall short of demand, but should be catching up to demand soon.  (Link won’t work w/o subscription)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 07, 2020, 09:02:39 AM

Quote from: LloydsLegs on March 07, 2020, 07:23:28 AM

To neutralize the politics, the WSJ (conservative editorial stance but with quality and usually independent news division) reports today that the test kits have been and continue to fall short of demand, but should be catching up to demand soon.  (Link won’t work w/o subscription)

the new york times also has some good coverage on this ever evolving situation as well.  i don't know when they started requiring a subscription sign up, but that is the only way you will be able to access some good stuff.  getting out accurate and upbeat information serves to calm the unnecessary panic.  we will get thru this like many other things if we just take certain basic precautions, which should actually, always be followed.  as they told us when HIV was evolving, treat everyone like they've got it.  i'm not in favor of "sugar coating" the situation, but to further lies and/or half truths for some type of an advantage or agenda is morally corrupt.  this virus in particular and any other malady that puts large segments of our populace in peril knows no bounds.  most reasonable people just wants this thing under control so we may resume tending to the day to day chit shows

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on March 07, 2020, 09:04:18 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 06, 2020, 06:39:26 AM

I had a customer meeting yesterday and she specifically mentioned she had been following this site regularly.

A number of dashboards, good and bad

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/615330/best-worst-coronavirus-dashboards/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 07, 2020, 09:29:52 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 07, 2020, 09:02:39 AM

the new york times also has some good coverage on this ever evolving situation as well.  i don't know when they started requiring a subscription sign up, but that is the only way you will be able to access some good stuff.  getting out accurate and upbeat information serves to calm the unnecessary panic.  we will get thru this like many other things if we just take certain basic precautions, which should actually, always be followed.  as they told us when HIV was evolving, treat everyone like they've got it.  i'm not in favor of "sugar coating" the situation, but to further lies and/or half truths for some type of an advantage or agenda is morally corrupt.  this virus in particular and any other malady that puts large segments of our populace in peril knows no bounds.  most reasonable people just wants this thing under control so we may resume tending to the day to day chit shows

Getting this thing under control will require that people are extremely vigilant. That they avoid going out in public as much as possible. That, if they have any symptoms, stay home and isolate themselves from others. If the symptoms persist, they immediately get in touch with healthcare experts to safely get tested. That, if communities are affected, public events, schools, and work should be shut down for non-essential purposes.

Failure to adhere to such measures could lead to a quick and rapid increase in cases to a point where we are unable to provide intensive care needed to avoid death. The result would be high fatality rates as observed in some communities in Iran, Italy, and China, where the disease spread too quickly.

Given the fact that health care is unaffordable for the vast majority of Americans, and that for many, if they stay home they don't get paid, and if they don't get paid electricity, housing, and/or food are gone. Getting the population to be on follow the above measures is a major hurdle. The best solution, is saturating the airwaves and media, so that there is a healthy level of fear to stop the spread. The worst solution, is to pretend like it is nothing, and/or a hoax, or just another flu.

Hopefully people continue to follow the advice above, and the naysayers will be able to puff out there chest and say  "I told you it was nothing." But if people follow the advice and mindset of the naysayers, this will be a big thing. So far communities are following the advice above, and ignoring the naysayers.  Yes, they are going a bit overboard in some of the panicking (selling out stores etc.), but that is better than under-reacting.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 07, 2020, 09:59:22 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 06, 2020, 06:20:40 PM

Actually Jockey is right on this one. My healthcare source confirms.  CDC has shipped 75k test kits. CDC says millions of independent tests can be used. That's false, the FDA hasn't approved those tests yet, so providers can't use them (my source deals directly with providers)

Max of 75k tests will be done by early next week, and following the 40% positive tend, total US  cases will be around 30k, but thousands more won't be tested.

If my numbers don't bear out, call me on it, but I think you'll see my way soon...

It's not political. Political are the spin that rocket and goose say we should believe.

edit: nobody called me on it, and I must have misread.  US test/positive ratio is about 10%

Just because it is inconvenient, doesn't mean its political.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 07, 2020, 02:51:30 PM

  i mean i hope these people had no plans to play the lottery anytime soon

https://www.foxnews.com/world/coronavirus-quarantine-hotel-collapses-in-china-trapping-70-people

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Not A Serious Person on March 07, 2020, 04:08:34 PM

Why do we think the BET will still happen?

March 7, 12:13
New York Governor Andrew Cuomo declares state of emergency over coronavirus outbreak
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/07/new-york-governor-andrew-cuomo-declares-state-of-emergency-over-coronavirus-outbreak.html?__source=iosappshare%7Ccom.tinyspeck.chatlyio.share

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/07/amtrak-cancels-nonstop-acela-service-between-dc-nyc-due-to-coronavirus.html

And this from yesterday

(https://static.politico.com/dims4/default/9285ec0/2147483647/resize/1160x/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2Fdb%2Fb7%2F23dfeff04c9987768554db5de45c%2F0306basketball.jpg)

Fans barred from NCAA basketball tournament at Johns Hopkins amid coronavirus fears
https://www.politico.com/states/new-york/city-hall/story/2020/03/06/fans-barred-from-ncaa-basketball-tournament-at-johns-hopkins-amid-coronavirus-fears-1265944

Does the NCAA season end with the final games tomorrow? (Sunday, March 8)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 07, 2020, 04:13:52 PM

No the NCAA season isn't going to end its season.  But the way things are going they may be paid in front of empty gyms.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Not A Serious Person on March 07, 2020, 04:24:39 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 07, 2020, 04:13:52 PM

No the NCAA season isn't going to end its season.  But the way things are going they may be paid in front of empty gyms.

LeBron James: 'I ain't playing' if there are no fans due to coronavirus concerns
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/486428-lebron-james-i-aint-playing-if-there-are-no-fans-due-to
"We play games without the fans?" James asked incredulously. "Nah, it’s impossible."

"I ain’t playing," James continued. "I ain’t got the fans in the crowd. That’s who I play for. I play for my teammates. I play for the fans. That’s what it’s all about. If I show up to an arena and there are no fans in there, I ain’t playing. They can do what they want to do."

He's right.

If they attempt to play in empty stadiums, are they not announcing to the world that they think the players are "expendable?"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 07, 2020, 04:34:45 PM

There are more fans in television than there are in the stands. It’s happening in Europe. It can happen here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Not A Serious Person on March 07, 2020, 04:50:01 PM

Today (just a few hours ago)
Stanford cancels classes, will limit attendance at sporting events, big tech tells workers to stay home
https://padailypost.com/2020/03/07/stanford-cancels-classes-will-limit-attendance-at-sporting-events-big-tech-tells-workers-to-stay-home/

Yesterday
University of Washington went online for the rest of the semester
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/06/us/coronavirus-college-campus-closings.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Not A Serious Person on March 07, 2020, 04:51:40 PM

It seems like Italy leads the US by 2 to 3 weeks.

The Italian government is planning to lock down 16 million people—more than a quarter of its population, including the region around Milan and 11 provinces in nearby regions—in the most sweeping steps any European country has prepared to take against the coronavirus epidemic.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/italy-plans-large-scale-lockdown-in-countrys-north-to-fight-coronavirus-11583613874

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 07, 2020, 05:11:27 PM

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on March 07, 2020, 04:50:01 PM

Today (just a few hours ago)
Stanford cancels classes, will limit attendance at sporting events, big tech tells workers to stay home
https://padailypost.com/2020/03/07/stanford-cancels-classes-will-limit-attendance-at-sporting-events-big-tech-tells-workers-to-stay-home/

Yesterday
University of Washington went online for the rest of the semester
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/06/us/coronavirus-college-campus-closings.html

False. They aren’t going online the rest of the semester.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Not A Serious Person on March 07, 2020, 05:31:39 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 07, 2020, 05:11:27 PM

False. They aren’t going online the rest of the semester.

Please read the first sentence of the story

The University of Washington said on Friday that it would cancel in-person classes and have students take courses and finals remotely while the Seattle area grapples with a growing coronavirus outbreak, in a move that other colleges around the country are preparing to follow if the virus becomes more widespread.

and since you missed that, you probably also missed this in the middle

The University of Washington, with 50,000 students on three campuses across the Seattle region, was apparently the first large college in the United States to make the shift entirely to online classes amid virus concerns. It said the change would begin Monday and continue through the remainder of the winter quarter, which ends March 20. The university’s president, Ana Mari Cauce, said she was hopeful that normal classes would resume during the spring quarter.

Oh wait, I said semester and it says quarter.  Stand corrected on that minor point.  But ... they are not going back in late March.  This is not ending in two weeks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Not A Serious Person on March 07, 2020, 05:33:34 PM

In total, this covers 12,000 employees

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-06/apple-encourages-silicon-valley-staff-to-work-from-home-on-virus?sref=SgYAAa0L

Apple Inc. is encouraging employees in Silicon Valley to work from home as an “additional precaution” against the outbreak of coronavirus, joining other major technology companies, including Alphabet Inc. and Microsoft Corp.

The iPhone maker has two main headquarters in Cupertino, California, -- the Apple Park campus and its original Infinite Loop set of buildings -- in addition to offices elsewhere in Santa Clara County. Apple also is offering workers in Seattle the option to work from home. The company employs engineers in Seattle on machine-learning technology.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on March 07, 2020, 05:34:54 PM

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on March 07, 2020, 04:51:40 PM

It seems like Italy leads the US by 2 to 3 weeks.

The Italian government is planning to lock down 16 million people—more than a quarter of its population, including the region around Milan and 11 provinces in nearby regions—in the most sweeping steps any European country has prepared to take against the coronavirus epidemic.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/italy-plans-large-scale-lockdown-in-countrys-north-to-fight-coronavirus-11583613874

Of note, 99% of deaths in Italy have been people 60+, nearly 85% over the age of 70. 1 person under the age of 40, and it was not a child.  All of the victims in Washington, from what I saw, were nursing home patients.

This is not to downplay the lives of the elderly, or to downplay the contagiousness of it.  But the fear and hysteria need to be framed properly.  People don't raid store shelves cause chicken pox broke out in the school district.  The media has made this out to be a frightening ordeal for everyone, the ABC news special report on Friday night was reminiscent of the somber reports of terror attacks.  If you're in one of the demographic groups that are susceptible to pneumonia or garden variety influenza complications, then by all means make preparations and precautions.  But cancelling months of classes, bringing businesses fully to a halt, encouraging people to postpone or cancel vacation/travel plans 1/2/3 months in the future?  Thats where I'm getting a bit sick of the media bias and narrative.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Not A Serious Person on March 07, 2020, 05:37:36 PM

A week ago no one even completed canceling it.  Now they are making plans to play with no fans.

Check back in a week.

March Madness Will Go On, but in a Worst Case, Without Mad Fans
As coronovirus spreads around the U.S., the NCAA’s marquee basketball tournaments are slated to begin in less than two weeks
https://www.wsj.com/articles/march-madness-will-go-on-but-in-a-worst-case-without-mad-fans-11583599569

The NCAA’s worst-case scenario for staging its March Madness tournaments in the time of coronavirus involves barring spectators from games, with players screened for illness before competing, the association’s chief medical officer Brian Hainline said in an interview with The Wall Street Journal.

The men’s and women’s college basketball tournaments are slated to begin in less than two weeks, at a time when event cancellations are piling up in the U.S. and abroad.  But the NCAA says it is not contemplating a postponement or cancellation of its lucrative marquee event.

“I think a worst-case scenario is that it’s played behind closed doors,” Hainline said Friday. “It would be very, very difficult to cancel a championship and have it at any other time.”

"It’s very unlikely,” he added of the closed-door scenario, saying the organization had worked out “options A through Z” to choose from.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 07, 2020, 05:43:22 PM

I am not personally scared of having the virus.  I bet I will persevere.  More so I am cautious about contracting and infecting others.  If there’s anything I can do to stop that while not going full China lockdown it’s a win. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 07, 2020, 05:47:32 PM

Want a tremendous thread of doom?  Read this thread:

https://twitter.com/LizSpecht/status/1236095180459003909

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Not A Serious Person on March 07, 2020, 05:48:50 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on March 07, 2020, 05:34:54 PM

Of note, 99% of deaths in Italy have been people 60+, nearly 85% over the age of 70. 1 person under the age of 40, and it was not a child.  All of the victims in Washington, from what I saw, were nursing home patients.

This is not to downplay the lives of the elderly, or to downplay the contagiousness of it.  But the fear and hysteria need to be framed properly.  People don't raid store shelves cause chicken pox broke out in the school district.  The media has made this out to be a frightening ordeal for everyone, the ABC news special report on Friday night was reminiscent of the somber reports of terror attacks.  If you're in one of the demographic groups that are susceptible to pneumonia or garden variety influenza complications, then by all means make preparations and precautions.  But cancelling months of classes, bringing businesses fully to a halt, encouraging people to postpone or cancel vacation/travel plans 1/2/3 months in the future?  Thats where I'm getting a bit sick of the media bias and narrative.

Flu truther?

Go to the top of this page and you will see

Total recovered = 58,359
Total Death = 3,558

No divide them to get the Case Fatality Ratio (CFR)
3,558 / 58,359 = 6.1%
Of all the resolved cases, 6.1% die

2018/2019 flu season
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2018-2019.html

Total = 35,520,883
Recovered = 35,486,726
Dead = 34,157

34,157 / 35,486,786 = .096% (2018/2018 CFR)

Coronavirus is 63.5x (6.1%/0.096%) deadlier than the seasonal flu.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on March 07, 2020, 05:58:27 PM

Could be da best thin' for MU if da BET is canceled, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 07, 2020, 06:09:15 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 07, 2020, 05:47:32 PM

Want a tremendous thread of doom?  Read this thread:

https://twitter.com/LizSpecht/status/1236095180459003909

That is why countries have been responding so aggressively, and why there is a lot of media coverage. The good news, I think it is working.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 07, 2020, 06:13:29 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 07, 2020, 05:47:32 PM

Want a tremendous thread of doom?  Read this thread:

https://twitter.com/LizSpecht/status/1236095180459003909

That was interesting.  Guess there is math to support my paranoia. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 07, 2020, 06:27:49 PM

Honestly, after reading that thread .. and once you take the leap that C19 is not going to be controlled .. it's just a matter of time.   The author presupposes a doubling-rate of 6 days .. fine, maybe we can make that 12 days, so instead of billions infected by July, it's ~October.     Yay?

Seems like only a matter of time, like 4-6 weeks where all schooling is closed.  All cruise ships, closed.  Air travel will be 75% closed.   Hotels, closed.  Restaurants, closed.  Churches, closed.  On and on.

That seems like .. the beginning of a global great depression?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 07, 2020, 06:31:26 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 07, 2020, 06:27:49 PM

Honestly, after reading that thread .. and once you take the leap that C19 is not going to be controlled .. it's just a matter of time.   The author presupposes a doubling-rate of 6 days .. fine, maybe we can make that 12 days, so instead of billions infected by July, it's ~October.     Yay?

Seems like only a matter of time, like 4-6 weeks where all schooling is closed.  All cruise ships, closed.  Air travel will be 75% closed.   Hotels, closed.  Restaurants, closed.  Churches, closed.  On and on.

That seems like .. the beginning of a global great depression?

China checked it and it will be a 1-2 quarter recession for them.  So I guess it depends on when the rest of the world can get to peak infection.  My guess is it will take ROW longer due to either worse health systems (emerging markets) or freedom (developed). 

Edit: obviously if this is slowed down by weather, people decide to accept risk or vaccine can completely change it to the positive. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on March 07, 2020, 06:41:23 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 07, 2020, 06:27:49 PM

Honestly, after reading that thread .. and once you take the leap that C19 is not going to be controlled .. it's just a matter of time.   The author presupposes a doubling-rate of 6 days .. fine, maybe we can make that 12 days, so instead of billions infected by July, it's ~October.     Yay?

Seems like only a matter of time, like 4-6 weeks where all schooling is closed.  All cruise ships, closed.  Air travel will be 75% closed.   Hotels, closed.  Restaurants, closed.  Churches, closed.  On and on.

That seems like .. the beginning of a global great depression?

And then there's this https://www.businessinsider.com/presentation-us-hospitals-preparing-for-millions-of-hospitalizations-2020-3 (https://www.businessinsider.com/presentation-us-hospitals-preparing-for-millions-of-hospitalizations-2020-3)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on March 07, 2020, 06:53:15 PM

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on March 07, 2020, 05:48:50 PM

Flu truther?

Go to the top of this page and you will see

Total recovered = 58,359
Total Death = 3,558

No divide them to get the Case Fatality Ratio (CFR)
3,558 / 58,359 = 6.1%
Of all the resolved cases, 6.1% die

2018/2019 flu season
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2018-2019.html

Total = 35,520,883
Recovered = 35,486,726
Dead = 34,157

34,157 / 35,486,786 = .096% (2018/2018 CFR)

Coronavirus is 63.5x (6.1%/0.096%) deadlier than the seasonal flu.

Classic Heisey misdirection addressing 0.0% of what I was talking to.

If a disease normally kills .5% of red haired green eyed people, and a new strain now kills 3% of red haired green eyed people, but still .01% of non-red haired green eye people, creating panic and paranoia about that disease to everyone that is not red haired and green eyed is excessive and irresponsible.

That 58,000 does not account for all Covid cases which required no hospitalization or care, which likely number in the hundreds of thousands.

But keep banging your drum to help your AAPL short

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 07, 2020, 07:01:55 PM

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on March 07, 2020, 05:31:39 PM

Please read the first sentence of the story

The University of Washington said on Friday that it would cancel in-person classes and have students take courses and finals remotely while the Seattle area grapples with a growing coronavirus outbreak, in a move that other colleges around the country are preparing to follow if the virus becomes more widespread.

and since you missed that, you probably also missed this in the middle

The University of Washington, with 50,000 students on three campuses across the Seattle region, was apparently the first large college in the United States to make the shift entirely to online classes amid virus concerns. It said the change would begin Monday and continue through the remainder of the winter quarter, which ends March 20. The university’s president, Ana Mari Cauce, said she was hopeful that normal classes would resume during the spring quarter.

Oh wait, I said semester and it says quarter.  Stand corrected on that minor point.  But ... they are not going back in late March.  This is not ending in two weeks.

It’s not a minor point. The quarter is just a couple of weeks. A semester would imply May.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 07, 2020, 07:04:05 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on March 07, 2020, 05:34:54 PM

The media has made this out to be a frightening ordeal for everyone, the ABC news special report on Friday night was reminiscent of the somber reports of terror attacks.  If you're in one of the demographic groups that are susceptible to pneumonia or garden variety influenza complications, then by all means make preparations and precautions.  But cancelling months of classes, bringing businesses fully to a halt, encouraging people to postpone or cancel vacation/travel plans 1/2/3 months in the future?  Thats where I'm getting a bit sick of the media bias and narrative.

Think of cancelling classes, businesses, etc as a flu shot*.  If you're healthy, you don't really need a flu shot - you'll survive the flu.  But healthy people get flu shots to avoid getting sick and spreading it to a vulnerable population.  THAT is why it's important to cancel things and slow the spread.  Most people have someone, or lots of someones of age 70+ in their life that they care about.  Those people can take precautions, but if you're not, or businesses or classes don't care, a lot more of those people will die.

* - I'm certainly not comparing COVID-19 to the flu.

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 07, 2020, 05:43:22 PM

I am not personally scared of having the virus.  I bet I will persevere.  More so I am cautious about contracting and infecting others.  If there’s anything I can do to stop that while not going full China lockdown it’s a win. 

And that's essentially the correct perspective.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: DegenerateDish on March 07, 2020, 08:37:02 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 07, 2020, 05:47:32 PM

Want a tremendous thread of doom?  Read this thread:

https://twitter.com/LizSpecht/status/1236095180459003909

Other than that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 07, 2020, 11:21:51 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 07, 2020, 06:31:26 PM

China checked it and it will be a 1-2 quarter recession for them.  So I guess it depends on when the rest of the world can get to peak infection.  My guess is it will take ROW longer due to either worse health systems (emerging markets) or freedom (developed). 

You’re buying what China is saying?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on March 08, 2020, 01:05:46 AM

Quote from: Jockey on March 07, 2020, 11:21:51 PM

You’re buying what China is saying?

Are you saying it’s way worse from them (meaning more than 1-2 quarters) or they are sandbagging cause they were in economic turmoil before this?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 08, 2020, 06:52:20 AM

Quote from: Jockey on March 07, 2020, 11:21:51 PM

You’re buying what China is saying?

Based on The NY Times article I posted above and recent factory utilization rates reported by companies, I think it is generally true. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 08, 2020, 09:09:03 AM

I liked this document ..

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cI_D3ULz6-qoBRMND8dIVz-naW92MqATphBg5bQEIjg/preview?fbclid=IwAR3dK2AUxsebUvy-VFkTqRKrbADDFmv7fcYX4U9wpkr_Vt0XHTjNq8y8VeQ&pru=AAABcN5-6sQ*1EWxzP8ANMZuVQ_HmmvMEw# (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cI_D3ULz6-qoBRMND8dIVz-naW92MqATphBg5bQEIjg/preview?fbclid=IwAR3dK2AUxsebUvy-VFkTqRKrbADDFmv7fcYX4U9wpkr_Vt0XHTjNq8y8VeQ&pru=AAABcN5-6sQ*1EWxzP8ANMZuVQ_HmmvMEw#)

This was a good point:

8. I do want to remind everyone that when public health works, the result is the least newsworthy thing ever: nothing happens.

If this all fizzles out and you start feeling like ‘Wah, all that fuss for nothing??’ Then send a thank-you note to your local department of public health for a job well done. Fingers crossed for that outcome.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 08, 2020, 09:28:00 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 08, 2020, 09:09:03 AM

I liked this document ..

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cI_D3ULz6-qoBRMND8dIVz-naW92MqATphBg5bQEIjg/preview?fbclid=IwAR3dK2AUxsebUvy-VFkTqRKrbADDFmv7fcYX4U9wpkr_Vt0XHTjNq8y8VeQ&pru=AAABcN5-6sQ*1EWxzP8ANMZuVQ_HmmvMEw# (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cI_D3ULz6-qoBRMND8dIVz-naW92MqATphBg5bQEIjg/preview?fbclid=IwAR3dK2AUxsebUvy-VFkTqRKrbADDFmv7fcYX4U9wpkr_Vt0XHTjNq8y8VeQ&pru=AAABcN5-6sQ*1EWxzP8ANMZuVQ_HmmvMEw#)

Yup, I generally concur with all of that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 08, 2020, 10:56:43 AM

Ah, humans.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Moronavirus/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/Moronavirus/)

Bo and Luke Duke School of Medicine :   https://en.radiofarda.com/a/people-who-drink-moonshine-in-iran-to-prevent-coronavirus-die-of-poisoning/30474864.html (https://en.radiofarda.com/a/people-who-drink-moonshine-in-iran-to-prevent-coronavirus-die-of-poisoning/30474864.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 08, 2020, 11:46:10 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on March 08, 2020, 01:05:46 AM

Are you saying it’s way worse from them (meaning more than 1-2 quarters) or they are sandbagging cause they were in economic turmoil before this?

Actually, Wags, I was referring to statements that things are getting better in Chine (re:coronavirus). When did we suddenly get to the point that their gov't - which has lied from the beginning and covered up the extent of the virus - has suddenly become a source of facts.

According to The Week - a centrist news site - they are still simply lying and covering up. In other words, SOP.

https://theweek.com/speedreads/900488/chinas-coronavirus-recovery-all-fake-whistleblowers-residents-claim

I think we all agree that we don't know what is going on in China. I think we can also agree we will not get transparency from the Chinese Gov't.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on March 08, 2020, 12:57:43 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 08, 2020, 11:46:10 AM

Actually, Wags, I was referring to statements that things are getting better in Chine (re:coronavirus). When did we suddenly get to the point that their gov't - which has lied from the beginning and covered up the extent of the virus - has suddenly become a source of facts.

According to The Week - a centrist news site - they are still simply lying and covering up. In other words, SOP.

https://theweek.com/speedreads/900488/chinas-coronavirus-recovery-all-fake-whistleblowers-residents-claim

I think we all agree that we don't know what is going on in China. I think we can also agree we will not get transparency from the Chinese Gov't.

Ok, multiple sources have them closing the Coronavirus hospitals and quarantine centers.  And I can tell you, as well as many others, first hand from clients and customers that many factories are back open and back to work.  Not speaking to long term business outlooks, but claiming its a massive coverup and the virus is still rampaging unchecked is some alarmist nonsense IMO.

Maybe they are window dressing Wuhan a bit, but the country is not longer at a standstill and case numbers continue to drop.  Thats meaningful.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 08, 2020, 01:08:37 PM

as more "first hand" news and reports from guys like wags, goose and a few others here who do direct business with the asian areas, will we start seeing our most accurate reports.  watch the stock market tomorrow-that could also tell us a little more. 

as more accurate numbers of the cases come out and the #'s being verified via testing, the mortality rate will drop.  i am not by any means trying to minimize any death from this virus.  it seems as though it's following the usual story; the very young, very old and the immunocompromised who are most susceptible 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 08, 2020, 01:34:07 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on March 08, 2020, 12:57:43 PM

Ok, multiple sources have them closing the Coronavirus hospitals and quarantine centers.  And I can tell you, as well as many others, first hand from clients and customers that many factories are back open and back to work.  Not speaking to long term business outlooks, but claiming its a massive coverup and the virus is still rampaging unchecked is some alarmist nonsense IMO.

Maybe they are window dressing Wuhan a bit, but the country is not longer at a standstill and case numbers continue to drop.  Thats meaningful.

I'll take your word on this Wags - as I have been out of the business loop for a few years now.

The company where I worked made a conscious decision about 10 years ago to not depend entirely on China as they closed plants in Honduras, Costa Rica, Jamaica, etc. Instead, they went to a presence in India, Vietnam, and Indonesia to supplement the factories in China.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Goose on March 08, 2020, 02:07:05 PM

Wags
Our team is back to work and have full access to 90% of the factories we work with, which is over 50 and all over China. Many of the factories not up and running are factories with money issues. There has been a glut of overcapacity for a long time and the weak factories are suffering.
I cannot comment on China reporting new cases or deaths accurately, but confirm much of China is open for business.
I have two grandkids arriving in early April otherwise I would be finding a way to get back to China and Vietnam.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 08, 2020, 06:43:49 PM

Quote from: Goose on March 08, 2020, 02:07:05 PM

Wags
Our team is back to work and have full access to 90% of the factories we work with, which is over 50 and all over China. Many of the factories not up and running are factories with money issues. There has been a glut of overcapacity for a long time and the weak factories are suffering.
I cannot comment on China reporting new cases or deaths accurately, but confirm much of China is open for business.
I have two grandkids arriving in early April otherwise I would be finding a way to get back to China and Vietnam.

Goose, good to hear your operation is mostly back to full speed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 08, 2020, 07:21:47 PM

Quote from: Goose on March 08, 2020, 02:07:05 PM

Wags
Our team is back to work and have full access to 90% of the factories we work with, which is over 50 and all over China. Many of the factories not up and running are factories with money issues. There has been a glut of overcapacity for a long time and the weak factories are suffering.
I cannot comment on China reporting new cases or deaths accurately, but confirm much of China is open for business.
I have two grandkids arriving in early April otherwise I would be finding a way to get back to China and Vietnam.

I have my weekly teleconference Monday morning.  I'll have a China update from my China b pant manager.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Goose on March 08, 2020, 07:34:05 PM

MU Fan
Keep me posted.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 08, 2020, 08:00:00 PM

Quote from: Goose on March 08, 2020, 07:34:05 PM

MU Fan
Keep me posted.

i knew we had at least another great scoop'er here with business ties to the southeast.  Godspeed to all of you guys, especially if you have to travel and your businesses.  the same goes for anyone else more directly involved with this mess.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 08, 2020, 09:12:21 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 08, 2020, 01:08:37 PM

as more "first hand" news and reports from guys like wags, goose and a few others here who do direct business with the asian areas, will we start seeing our most accurate reports.  watch the stock market tomorrow-that could also tell us a little more. 

as more accurate numbers of the cases come out and the #'s being verified via testing, the mortality rate will drop.  i am not by any means trying to minimize any death from this virus.  it seems as though it's following the usual story; the very young, very old and the immunocompromised who are most susceptible

zero deaths for kids under 10 world wide

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 08, 2020, 09:56:57 PM

Indian Wells Tennis Tourney canceled for next week due to the Coronavirus.

For those that don't follow the sport, it's the biggest non grand slam/major professional tennis tournament on tour. Many of the players have been there practicing. Qualifying events were completed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on March 08, 2020, 10:10:27 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 08, 2020, 09:12:21 PM

zero deaths for kids under 10 world wide

From Italy, which is driving the majority of panic and fear globally right now...

https://twitter.com/dr_farrisd/status/1236779824296996871?s=21


Goose,
  Thanks for the updates. Glad to hear it. Let’s hope for some return to normalcy

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Not A Serious Person on March 08, 2020, 10:42:27 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 08, 2020, 09:56:57 PM

Indian Wells Tennis Tourney canceled for next week due to the Coronavirus.

For those that don't follow the sport, it's the biggest non grand slam/major professional tennis tournament on tour. Many of the players have been there practicing. Qualifying events were completed.

One step closer to canceling March Madness?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 08, 2020, 10:47:41 PM

Sorry topper, one step to your cruise getting cancelled.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/before-you-go/travelers-with-special-considerations/cruise-ship-passengers.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 09, 2020, 09:00:07 AM

Just got off my weekly call.  (Delayed an hour since the rest of the world has not turned their clocks ahead yet.)

Nothing really to report.  Plant Manager said it's been quiet and everything is starting to return to business as usual in China.  One of their customers in China just reopened last week and is only slowly ramping up.  Said the local Zhongshan officials were coming in for a visit tomorrow to get an understanding of how the virus reaction has/is affecting business operations.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 09, 2020, 09:05:18 AM

An elementary school child in Indianapolis suburb just diagnosed. School shutting down for 2 weeks. Parents were informed midday yesterday. That has to be absolutely brutal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 09, 2020, 10:19:45 AM

DC priest is confirmed with Covid-19, distributed communion over the last two weeks to at least 500 people.....I think we can probably close the book on containment.

Time to go find a Typhoid Mary/Marty to hang out with to get the contagion over and done with. Benny, you find a source for yourself yet?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 09, 2020, 10:23:03 AM

Is "containment" the actual goal any longer?  It seems like its more like "slowing the spread before the weather gets warm and hopefully slows down until fall."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 09, 2020, 10:23:19 AM

The one fortuitous thing about this is timing: the outbreak will ramp up just as flu season is ending. This should free up hospital beds for COVID-19.

Can you imagine if it was mid-November right now?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 09, 2020, 10:24:29 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 09, 2020, 10:19:45 AM

DC priest is confirmed with Covid-19, distributed communion over the last two weeks to at least 500 people.....I think we can probably close the book on containment.

Time to go find a Typhoid Mary/Marty to hang out with to get the contagion over and done with. Benny, you find a source for yourself yet?

Not good. Also old people disproportionally attend church.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 09, 2020, 10:30:35 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 09, 2020, 10:23:03 AM

Is "containment" the actual goal any longer?  It seems like its more like "slowing the spread before the weather gets warm and hopefully slows down until fall."

Yeah, about that, isn't Tehran, Iran pretty warm?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: CreightonWarrior on March 09, 2020, 10:32:33 AM

Confirmed case in Omaha, they think the patient brought it back from a trip to UK. The patient, prior to diagnosis, went for check ups a couple times, so exposure at the hospital or clinic, and also attended a Special Olympics event with 500 athletes. Positive cases from two family members. Area where the event took place is shutting down for a week. About 20 miles from where I live.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 09, 2020, 10:33:33 AM

Not especially, but I get your point.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 09, 2020, 10:35:19 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 09, 2020, 10:30:35 AM

Yeah, about that, isn't Tehran, Iran pretty warm?

It's not a literal temperature thing, it's a cultural thing ie people get outside when its warm outside so the "concentration" of individuals in enclosed spaces is less.....that's why flu season is October to April typically because the conditions for spreading it is more concentrated.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 09, 2020, 11:01:53 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 09, 2020, 10:35:19 AM

It's not a literal temperature thing, it's a cultural thing ie people get outside when its warm outside so the "concentration" of individuals in enclosed spaces is less.....that's why flu season is October to April typically because the conditions for spreading it is more concentrated.

Today I learned...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on March 09, 2020, 11:12:17 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 09, 2020, 10:35:19 AM

It's not a literal temperature thing, it's a cultural thing ie people get outside when its warm outside so the "concentration" of individuals in enclosed spaces is less.....that's why flu season is October to April typically because the conditions for spreading it is more concentrated.

Had no idea honestly.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jsglow on March 09, 2020, 11:22:16 AM

Actually,  I read a story yesterday where warm temps coupled with higher humidity decrease the likelihood of spreading of any virus from individual to individual. So we go outside,  increase social distance, and degrade the environment all at once.

I sincerely feel for the elderly and immune compromised.  They are at risk for sure. The nasty thing about this is that we're going to get it, maybe not even know, and get better. Many more Americans that have been reported have likely already recovered. So it's a 'best practice gameplan' for most and for God's sake stop hoarding toilet paper. (Did you guys see that idiotic fight over TP yesterday?)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 09, 2020, 11:24:08 AM

Yep, one of the reasons Valley Forge was so bad.....forced confinement + malnutrition + terrible hygiene (especially the New Jersey Line....not a joke) allowed disease to flourish. True of a lot of armies in winter camps.

Typically, you don't catch a virus or bacteria with a single exposure (something movies really get wrong) but from continuous exposure. As an example, if you walked through a subway car that an idiot traveled in with Covid, but you don't stay in it, you are a lot less likely to catch the virus than you would if you sat in the car for a 50 minute commute or something. So when the weather heats up and we spend less time breathing the same air our exposure time is less and the diseases tend to spread a lot less easily. You can still get the normal flu in the summer, it's just a lot less likely to transmit to others.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jsglow on March 09, 2020, 11:32:29 AM

The moral of the story. Take your kids and grandkids outside and play with the dog. And get dirty while you do it. It'll remind you to wash up when you come inside.

The added benefit: you don't have to watch #mubb.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 09, 2020, 11:36:04 AM

Quote from: jsglow on March 09, 2020, 11:22:16 AM

Actually,  I read a story yesterday where warm temps coupled with higher humidity decrease the likelihood of spreading of any virus from individual to individual. So we go outside,  increase social distance, and degrade the environment all at once.

I sincerely feel for the elderly and immune compromised.  They are at risk for sure. The nasty thing about this is that we're going to get it, maybe not even know, and get better. Many more Americans that have been reported have likely already recovered. So it's a 'best practice gameplan' for most and for God's sake stop hoarding toilet paper. (Did you guys see that idiotic fight over TP yesterday?)

Glow, this is it absolutely. I am not worried about myself or my wife. I am not worried about my infant, as they also seem to be spared from the worst impact (flu seems to be a much bigger threat to babies).

I am a bit concerned about my 90 year old grandmother in a nursing home.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Sir Lawrence on March 09, 2020, 11:41:07 AM

Quote from: jsglow on March 09, 2020, 11:22:16 AM

 So it's a 'best practice gameplan' for most and for God's sake stop hoarding toilet paper. (Did you guys see that idiotic fight over TP yesterday?)

What's with the TP hoarding anyway?  Is it because people think that there's a likelihood of self quarantine and you won't get to the store to purchase TP?  Because I don't see anything in the stated symptoms that would increase the need to use TP, like diarrhea. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 09, 2020, 11:41:49 AM

Is the Coronavirus the wish fullfillment of the OK, Boomer sentiment? Kind of line when it turned out $hit was a literal cursed word on South Park

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on March 09, 2020, 11:49:08 AM

Quote from: Sir Lawrence on March 09, 2020, 11:41:07 AM

What's with the TP hoarding anyway?  Is it because people think that there's a likelihood of self quarantine and you won't get to the store to purchase TP?  Because I don't see anything in the stated symptoms that would increase the need to use TP, like diarrhea.

Cause regardless of the actual nature of the virus and its pending effect on the US, we're reached near peak irrational fear.  People hear "sickness" and "shortage" and start grabbing stuff like TP and hoarding.  Paper products aren't being made in China, so its not like there is a coming shortage due to the supply chain issues.  People are just being idiots cause they think everyone is going to be infected and you will be confined to your home for weeks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 09, 2020, 11:52:53 AM

Semi-sarcastic theory.....how surprised would you be if this whole Covid-19 was a Yale sociology thought experiment gone awry. Like it's all a social experiment on herd mentality and the fatalistic state of global media? I'd be around like 10% surprised at this point.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 09, 2020, 11:53:29 AM

https://twitter.com/amateuradam/status/1236733713129639940?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 09, 2020, 11:58:28 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 09, 2020, 11:53:29 AM

https://twitter.com/amateuradam/status/1236733713129639940?s=19

Social patterns and population concentration are totally different between continental Europe and the US. The north eastern corridor might see the type of Italian growth factor but I think population density is totally different within the US which will naturally act to slow the spread. The overall concern of Coronavirus is not that the virus is in of itself a death sentance....it's that it spreads faster than the local healthcare infrastructure can support. If the population "saturation" rate is like 3 or 4 weeks versus the 14 weeks that you've seen in Italy or China this is an aggressive flu versus some sort of culling.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 09, 2020, 12:03:44 PM

Quote from: Sir Lawrence on March 09, 2020, 11:41:07 AM

What's with the TP hoarding anyway?  Is it because people think that there's a likelihood of self quarantine and you won't get to the store to purchase TP?  Because I don't see anything in the stated symptoms that would increase the need to use TP, like diarrhea.

If the hoarding gets bad enough, can't we just go shoot the people who have stuff and take it for ourselves?

Works in the movies!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 09, 2020, 12:06:26 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 09, 2020, 12:03:44 PM

If the hoarding gets bad enough, can't we just go shoot the people who have stuff and take it for ourselves?

Works in the movies!

I'm working on my barbwire bat as we speak....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on March 09, 2020, 12:12:38 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 09, 2020, 10:19:45 AM

DC priest is confirmed with Covid-19, distributed communion over the last two weeks to at least 500 people.....I think we can probably close the book on containment.

Time to go find a Typhoid Mary/Marty to hang out with to get the contagion over and done with. Benny, you find a source for yourself yet?

I’m a little surprised the Blood of Christ at mass. I figure that’s going to stop pretty soon.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Sir Lawrence on March 09, 2020, 12:18:26 PM

Quote from: cheebs09 on March 09, 2020, 12:12:38 PM

I’m a little surprised the Blood of Christ at mass. I figure that’s going to stop pretty soon.

Green Bay Diocese put a halt to wine distribution and hand shaking during the "kiss of peace" exchange over the weekend for Saturday and Sunday liturgies.  I guess the Milwaukee Archdiocese is leaving the wine/blood of Christ distribution up to the parish pastor. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 09, 2020, 12:48:22 PM

Quote from: cheebs09 on March 09, 2020, 12:12:38 PM

I’m a little surprised the Blood of Christ at mass. I figure that’s going to stop pretty soon.

None of the churches in Connecticut do the wine at mass.  I've never seen here like forever.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 09, 2020, 12:54:46 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 09, 2020, 11:52:53 AM

Semi-sarcastic theory.....how surprised would you be if this whole Covid-19 was a Yale sociology thought experiment gone awry. Like it's all a social experiment on herd mentality and the fatalistic state of global media? I'd be around like 10% surprised at this point.

  i'd stop my donations immediately

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on March 09, 2020, 12:57:59 PM

Quote from: Sir Lawrence on March 09, 2020, 11:41:07 AM

What's with the TP hoarding anyway?  Is it because people think that there's a likelihood of self quarantine and you won't get to the store to purchase TP?  Because I don't see anything in the stated symptoms that would increase the need to use TP, like diarrhea.

I thought this thread was cool on the TP hoarding - https://twitter.com/JustinWolfers/status/1234993431375536128 (https://twitter.com/JustinWolfers/status/1234993431375536128)

Basically, the behavior is the transition from a fear that some event (covid-19) will cause a shortage, which is irrational, to the fear that everyone else has that fear and will therefore cause a shortage, which is actually rational.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 09, 2020, 01:21:52 PM

Well this is depressing.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/irans-coronavirus-problem-lot-worse-it-seems/607663/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 09, 2020, 01:35:33 PM

I know we aren't supposed to get political, but these are questions floating around in my head (without any thought on where I land on the answers):

1. Could this sink Trump? Could it be his Hurricane Katrina?

2. Does this change the political calculus for universal healthcare? If the spread is worse because people can't afford to see a doctor, does that change public opinion?

3. Does this change the political calculus for sick leave? If people can't afford to stay home from work, and spread the virus, does that change public opinion?

I don't have an opinion (yet) on any of these, one way or the other. But I have been thinking about them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 09, 2020, 02:02:00 PM

Quote from: Coleman on March 09, 2020, 01:35:33 PM

I know we aren't supposed to get political, but these are questions floating around in my head (without any thought on where I land on the answers):

1. Could this sink Trump? Could it be his Hurricane Katrina?

2. Does this change the political calculus for universal healthcare? If the spread is worse because people can't afford to see a doctor, does that change public opinion?

3. Does this change the political calculus for sick leave? If people can't afford to stay home from work, and spread the virus, does that change public opinion?

I don't have an opinion (yet) on any of these, one way or the other. But I have been thinking about them.

If this gets as widespread as in Italy and lasts for more than just a few weeks, I suspect the answer to all three is YES.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 09, 2020, 02:06:10 PM

Quote from: Coleman on March 09, 2020, 01:35:33 PM

I know we aren't supposed to get political, but these are questions floating around in my head (without any thought on where I land on the answers):

1. Could this sink Trump? Could it be his Hurricane Katrina?

2. Does this change the political calculus for universal healthcare? If the spread is worse because people can't afford to see a doctor, does that change public opinion?

3. Does this change the political calculus for sick leave? If people can't afford to stay home from work, and spread the virus, does that change public opinion?

I don't have an opinion (yet) on any of these, one way or the other. But I have been thinking about them.

Polling for 2 and 3 shows public opinion support already, prior to this virus.

However, IMO, the fact that we might need a pandemic illness to force political action on 2 and 3 is sad.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 09, 2020, 02:09:43 PM

Honestly, I don't see COVID19 changing the political landscape beyond a few percentage points because voters are so tribal now.

Yes, close elections can be flipped.   But on policy (universal health care, sick leave, etc) you need a larger sea change of politicians (and media resistance.)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 09, 2020, 02:14:47 PM

Quote from: Coleman on March 09, 2020, 01:35:33 PM

I know we aren't supposed to get political, but these are questions floating around in my head (without any thought on where I land on the answers):

1. Could this sink Trump? Could it be his Hurricane Katrina?

2. Does this change the political calculus for universal healthcare? If the spread is worse because people can't afford to see a doctor, does that change public opinion?

3. Does this change the political calculus for sick leave? If people can't afford to stay home from work, and spread the virus, does that change public opinion?

I don't have an opinion (yet) on any of these, one way or the other. But I have been thinking about them.

Hurricane Maria.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 09, 2020, 02:16:51 PM

Doubtful on universal healthcare but could see universal basic healthcare? Idk what that would entail maybe tests and vaccines? But IMO it's doubtful anything beyond that gets added.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on March 09, 2020, 02:19:21 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 09, 2020, 12:06:26 PM

I'm working on my barbwire bat as we speak....

Meh.  Board with a nail seems to work just fine.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on March 09, 2020, 02:20:10 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 09, 2020, 02:09:43 PM

Honestly, I don't see COVID19 changing the political landscape beyond a few percentage points because voters are so tribal now.

Yes, close elections can be flipped.   But on policy (universal health care, sick leave, etc) you need a larger sea change of politicians (and media resistance.)

I agree with this.  There are no consensus answers for "what" is even happening anymore, let alone "why" something is happening.  And without drawing that causation, people just aren't going to swing on these big issues.

A (only slightly) less political outcome I'm worried about is if the institutions at play get their arms around this thing, and it reinforces the "see this was never a big deal" perspective.  That would be an example where the bureaucracy works effectively, but because the spread doesn't get worse, people attribute the consequences to it never being a big deal in the first place and we continue to see those institutions get kneecapped.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 09, 2020, 02:23:41 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 09, 2020, 02:09:43 PM

Honestly, I don't see COVID19 changing the political landscape beyond a few percentage points because voters are so tribal now.

Yes, close elections can be flipped.   But on policy (universal health care, sick leave, etc) you need a larger sea change of politicians (and media resistance.)

This is pretty much how I see it as well, although a few percentage points is more than enough to decide an election.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 09, 2020, 02:23:49 PM

Quote from: Coleman on March 09, 2020, 01:35:33 PM

I know we aren't supposed to get political, but these are questions floating around in my head (without any thought on where I land on the answers):

1. Could this sink Trump? Could it be his Hurricane Katrina?

2. Does this change the political calculus for universal healthcare? If the spread is worse because people can't afford to see a doctor, does that change public opinion?

3. Does this change the political calculus for sick leave? If people can't afford to stay home from work, and spread the virus, does that change public opinion?

I don't have an opinion (yet) on any of these, one way or the other. But I have been thinking about them.

I think the political frame-up is probably the wrong way to look at it, not that the politics of it shouldn't be analyzed but politics is about the retention or acquisition of power so where you/your party falls on a crisis like this is all about whether you are the former or the later. If you reframe your questions as cultural in nature, I think it's very interesting.

One side note, as to the universal healthcare...it is an interesting by-product of the virus itself that those who actually have universal access(medicare/medicaid) are the ones really impacted by this. So in that regard, I don't think it actually moves the needle on it though I think if you are pro-universal healthcare you would certainly frame it up that way politically.

1. Absolutely it could, but it's a trigger mechanism for cultural change. Between the virus and the financial impact to the populace it is natural that we would culturally desire a change of leadership.

2. Does this change our appetite for healthcare spending and/or systemic change of the delivery model? Ultimately I don't see it changing our views on healthcare simply because I don't think the system will "fail" here.

3. Does this change how we view tele-commuting and what do we do/invest in for those who can't tele-commute? Does this drive further automation? I think we get a lot more automation but it seems like the virus has limited impact on those with little to no health coverage so I'd question (so far) what appetite would be changed for supporting the less fortunate more than is already done.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warrior2008 on March 09, 2020, 02:26:05 PM

Quote from: Coleman on March 09, 2020, 01:35:33 PM

I know we aren't supposed to get political, but these are questions floating around in my head (without any thought on where I land on the answers):

1. Could this sink Trump? Could it be his Hurricane Katrina?

2. Does this change the political calculus for universal healthcare? If the spread is worse because people can't afford to see a doctor, does that change public opinion?

3. Does this change the political calculus for sick leave? If people can't afford to stay home from work, and spread the virus, does that change public opinion?

I don't have an opinion (yet) on any of these, one way or the other. But I have been thinking about them.

1. Yes, not having enough tests while downplaying the severity didn't help.
2. No. Italy has a universal healthcare model that the WHO considers one of the best in the world and they had to quarantine a third of their country because by many accounts their healthcare system was on the verge of collapse.  So by having one doesn't necessarily mean you are better prepared to deal with any kind of healthcare emergency.
3. I think yes, but want to reserve judgment. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 09, 2020, 02:26:30 PM

Quote from: MUBurrow on March 09, 2020, 02:20:10 PM

I agree with this.  There are no consensus answers for "what" is even happening anymore, let alone "why" something is happening.  And without drawing that causation, people just aren't going to swing on these big issues.

A (only slightly) less political outcome I'm worried about is if the institutions at play get their arms around this thing, and it reinforces the "see this was never a big deal" perspective.  That would be an example where the bureaucracy works effectively, but because the spread doesn't get worse, people attribute the consequences to it never being a big deal in the first place and we continue to see those institutions get kneecapped.

Starve the beast...."See? We told you those organizations were ineffectual."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warrior2008 on March 09, 2020, 02:59:09 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 09, 2020, 01:21:52 PM

Well this is depressing.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/irans-coronavirus-problem-lot-worse-it-seems/607663/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share

That is and so is this one.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2020/03/italy-coronavirus-covid19-west-europe-future/607660/

There are literally not going to be enough beds to put sick patients in if the current rate continues, never mind all of the other regular hospitalizations and ICU traffic that comes in.  Will they transport infected patients to hospitals elsewhere throughout the country or will that only seed the spread of the virus?  Simply put, there are no easy answers here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: SERocks on March 09, 2020, 03:07:09 PM

I have a kid who lives in San Bernardino.  He texted me last  night and asked if we had hand sanitizer.  I said of course we do.  Apparently they are all out of it out there and he wanted me to buy a bunch and ship it to him so he could sell it at a profit.  I went to Walgreens at lunch and they are completely out...cannot keep it in stock.  I had no idea things were nutty around here too.  It is tax season so I don't get out much, but really. I thought SE WI was bit calmer than that.....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on March 09, 2020, 03:20:14 PM

Quote from: SERocks on March 09, 2020, 03:07:09 PM

I have a kid who lives in San Bernardino.  He texted me last  night and asked if we had hand sanitizer.  I said of course we do.  Apparently they are all out of it out there and he wanted me to buy a bunch and ship it to him so he could sell it at a profit.  I went to Walgreens at lunch and they are completely out...cannot keep it in stock.  I had no idea things were nutty around here too.  It is tax season so I don't get out much, but really. I thought SE WI was bit calmer than that.....

Most everywhere in SE-WI/NE-IL has been sold out of sanitizer and N95 masks for about two weeks.

Now it's starting to become difficult to find 100% aloe vera gel (to make your own sanitizer).


DIY tip: Menards sells "Splash" brand gas line antifreeze in two versions... if you get the red bottle that says "PX-99" on it, it's (nominally) 100% isopropyl alcohol, perfect for home-made sanitizer (just don't drink it).  And it's only $1.50/bottle (for now, any way).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on March 09, 2020, 03:21:49 PM

Quote from: SERocks on March 09, 2020, 03:07:09 PM

I have a kid who lives in San Bernardino.  He texted me last  night and asked if we had hand sanitizer.  I said of course we do.  Apparently they are all out of it out there and he wanted me to buy a bunch and ship it to him so he could sell it at a profit.  I went to Walgreens at lunch and they are completely out...cannot keep it in stock.  I had no idea things were nutty around here too.  It is tax season so I don't get out much, but really. I thought SE WI was bit calmer than that.....

Yay for your kid who wants to price gouge and profit off the fears of their fellow man?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 09, 2020, 03:28:33 PM

Quote from: SERocks on March 09, 2020, 03:07:09 PM

I have a kid who lives in San Bernardino.  He texted me last  night and asked if we had hand sanitizer.  I said of course we do.  Apparently they are all out of it out there and he wanted me to buy a bunch and ship it to him so he could sell it at a profit.  I went to Walgreens at lunch and they are completely out...cannot keep it in stock.  I had no idea things were nutty around here too.  It is tax season so I don't get out much, but really. I thought SE WI was bit calmer than that.....

I’d be embarrassed to have a kid like that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: SERocks on March 09, 2020, 03:39:30 PM

Heck I don't even know how much hand sanitizer costs.  That was the first thing I was going to check as he said it is going for $2.00 per ounce.  Does not seem like a whole lot to me.  Certainly isn't $300 for an epi-pen.  I bet Jockey and Reinko have probably at one point or another invested in stocks where the companies price gouge, but never mind that.  Take a shot at a kid in CA (and me) trying to obtain something that is not readily available and make a small profit on it.

Best bet, don't be a dick guys.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 09, 2020, 03:51:33 PM

Quote from: SERocks on March 09, 2020, 03:07:09 PM

I have a kid who lives in San Bernardino.  He texted me last  night and asked if we had hand sanitizer.  I said of course we do.  Apparently they are all out of it out there and he wanted me to buy a bunch and ship it to him so he could sell it at a profit.  I went to Walgreens at lunch and they are completely out...cannot keep it in stock.  I had no idea things were nutty around here too.  It is tax season so I don't get out much, but really. I thought SE WI was bit calmer than that.....

Yikes. Tell your kid to contribute to society in more productive ways.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on March 09, 2020, 04:04:17 PM

Quote from: SERocks on March 09, 2020, 03:39:30 PM

Heck I don't even know how much hand sanitizer costs.  That was the first thing I was going to check as he said it is going for $2.00 per ounce.  Does not seem like a whole lot to me.  Certainly isn't $300 for an epi-pen.  I bet Jockey and Reinko have probably at one point or another invested in stocks where the companies price gouge, but never mind that.  Take a shot at a kid in CA (and me) trying to obtain something that is not readily available and make a small profit on it.

Best bet, don't be a dick guys.

Lol, thats a pretty awful justification. And the irony in your closing statement is rich.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: SERocks on March 09, 2020, 04:06:01 PM

Wow.  So the take away from my story is that my kid is a price gouging fool. 

This place is nuts.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 09, 2020, 04:12:24 PM

Quote from: SERocks on March 09, 2020, 04:06:01 PM

Wow.  So the take away from my story is that my kid is a price gouging fool. 

This place is nuts.

Sorry if I came off dick-ish, but I stand by the spirit of what I said. I think this would be a good teaching moment if it was my kid.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 09, 2020, 04:13:31 PM

Quote from: SERocks on March 09, 2020, 03:39:30 PM

Heck I don't even know how much hand sanitizer costs.  That was the first thing I was going to check as he said it is going for $2.00 per ounce.  Does not seem like a whole lot to me.

$2 an ounce?  Like a 10 oz container for $20?  That's nuts for what is basically a convenience .. a bar of soap is $1 and will last you 300 hand washings.

I was at Walmart today .. hand sanitizer, toilet paper, wipes, bleach, cough medicine, multi-vitamins .. completely gone or almost gone.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on March 09, 2020, 04:20:24 PM

The Guardian put up an article suggesting that people use "bleach and hydrogen peroxide to disinfect surfaces." (they've since corrected the 'and' to an 'or'). Follow that advice and it's a pretty safe bet you won't die from COVID-19...

The Guardian, helping you imitate Ypres in your kitchen.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Golden Avalanche on March 09, 2020, 04:26:52 PM

Quote from: SERocks on March 09, 2020, 04:06:01 PM

Wow.  So the take away from my story is that my kid is a price gouging fool. 

This place is nuts.

You relayed a tale in which your son sounds like a dick, you're enabling the dick-ish behavior, and you have no idea how much hand sanitizer costs because "it's tax season".

People rightly noted there was a lot of dick in that story. This place isn't nuts.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on March 09, 2020, 04:27:50 PM

Quote from: SERocks on March 09, 2020, 03:39:30 PM

Heck I don't even know how much hand sanitizer costs.  That was the first thing I was going to check as he said it is going for $2.00 per ounce.  Does not seem like a whole lot to me.  Certainly isn't $300 for an epi-pen.  I bet Jockey and Reinko have probably at one point or another invested in stocks where the companies price gouge, but never mind that.  Take a shot at a kid in CA (and me) trying to obtain something that is not readily available and make a small profit on it.

Best bet, don't be a dick guys.

Run on baby formula too, so ship him some of that too.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 09, 2020, 04:31:22 PM

All of Italy is now on lockdown.  60 million people.
Starts tomorrow.

Looks like that European model universal health care system ain't working so good?  Is this the downfall of Conte?  Does Italy go more socialist to solve their covid 19 problems?   ::)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 09, 2020, 04:39:01 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 09, 2020, 04:31:22 PM

All of Italy is now on lockdown.  60 million people.
Starts tomorrow.

Looks like that European model universal health care system ain't working so good?  Is this the downfall of Conte?  Does Italy go more socialist to solve their covid 19 problems?   ::)

Italy = every European healthcare system?  ::)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 09, 2020, 04:41:02 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 09, 2020, 04:39:01 PM

Italy = every European healthcare system?  ::)

No, someone else said that italy is the model healthcare system for the WHO.  Words are hard.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 09, 2020, 05:00:04 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 09, 2020, 04:31:22 PM

All of Italy is now on lockdown.  60 million people.
Starts tomorrow.

Looks like that European model universal health care system ain't working so good?  Is this the downfall of Conte?  Does Italy go more socialist to solve their covid 19 problems?   ::)

Socialist is such a weird trigger word with genX/boomers.

So if the US has the worst outcome/fatalities/infection compared to other 1st world countries, what does that say about our healthcare system?

IMO, it says nothing. Because this is a one-off pandemic that doesn't represent what the goals of a healthcare system is about. This is more representative of emergency preparedness.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 09, 2020, 05:19:44 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 09, 2020, 04:41:02 PM

No, someone else said that italy is the model healthcare system for the WHO.  Words are hard.

Did not see that anywhere. NHS seems to have a pretty good handle on it

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on March 09, 2020, 05:52:14 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 09, 2020, 04:41:02 PM

No, someone else said that italy is the model healthcare system for the WHO.  Words are hard.

I find that interesting because I find a lot of Italians to be gross when it comes to cleanliness.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on March 09, 2020, 06:05:40 PM

Right in the middle of modeling supply scenarios (Medical device and pharma) for the outbreak. So far we are only shifting volume from 2H to 1H production but we have our "all hell breaks loose" model being discussed and they are something...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: lawdog77 on March 09, 2020, 06:44:56 PM

My brother lives in Avon, Indiana, so my niece and nephew have two weeks off of school. Two kids of tested positive for Coronavirus I feel sorry for my sister-in-law's since she's a stay-at-home mom.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 09, 2020, 06:48:06 PM

Quote from: SERocks on March 09, 2020, 03:39:30 PM

Heck I don't even know how much hand sanitizer costs.  That was the first thing I was going to check as he said it is going for $2.00 per ounce.  Does not seem like a whole lot to me.  Certainly isn't $300 for an epi-pen.  I bet Jockey and Reinko have probably at one point or another invested in stocks where the companies price gouge, but never mind that.  Take a shot at a kid in CA (and me) trying to obtain something that is not readily available and make a small profit on it.

Best bet, don't be a dick guys.

Awful cavalier attitude.  I bet if it wasn't your kid, you wouldn't approve... but maybe the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 09, 2020, 06:58:53 PM

https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1237061056620625921

Something to keep an eye on.  I expect numbers to increase, significantly.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 09, 2020, 07:08:33 PM

Brutal thread from an Italian doc:

https://twitter.com/silviast9/status/1236933818654896129

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on March 09, 2020, 07:10:57 PM

Quote from: lawdog77 on March 09, 2020, 06:44:56 PM

My brother lives in Avon, Indiana, so my niece and nephew have two weeks off of school. Two kids of tested positive for Coronavirus I feel sorry for my sister-in-law's since she's a stay-at-home mom.

If she is a SAHM with school age children, what does she normally keep busy with while the kids are at school?

If you want to feel sorry for someone, feel sorry for the paycheck-to-paycheck single moms who will have to take unpaid leave to watch their kids.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 09, 2020, 07:14:46 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on March 09, 2020, 07:10:57 PM

If she is a SAHM with school age children, what does she normally keep busy with while the kids are at school?

If you want to feel sorry for someone, feel sorry for the paycheck-to-paycheck single moms who will have to take unpaid leave to watch their kids.

Exactly, now imagine that is most Americans (it is).  What happens to supply chain?  What happens to basically everything?  Collapse.

I'm hopeful (but not confident) that the US government has used the time that they have had since we learned of this to develop solutions for those problems.

Because, I don't dare to think about what happens when millions can't afford to pay rent, CC bills... hell everything they need to pay on a monthly basis to stay afloat.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 09, 2020, 07:17:14 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 09, 2020, 07:08:33 PM

Brutal thread from an Italian doc:

https://twitter.com/silviast9/status/1236933818654896129

(https://media.giphy.com/media/MPLpvJcsWvrkk/giphy.gif)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 09, 2020, 07:22:32 PM

If we don't have the test kits, then no epidemic.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/d3mlE7uhX8KFgEmY/giphy.gif)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 09, 2020, 07:27:01 PM

https://www.channel3000.com/dhs-confirms-second-case-of-coronavirus-in-wisconsin/?fbclid=IwAR3PAT1L_bK6PEfuE1N4EpgiCiaeQoTMoxzbPD0FS8t3S9kZUX0SEb4WvPA

Pierce County is rural western Wisconsin very near MSP

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 09, 2020, 08:01:59 PM

thought i posted this earlier-as recent as saturday, 3/7 was able to order kleenex germ wipe tissues. 8  packs of 48.  allowed me to get 2 so i got 768 wipes for $44.00 or roughly .05-.06 per wipe.  supposed to arrive 3/9-3/16.  they haven't yet come today, but not going to hold my breath

along the same lines, spoke to my sullivan-schein rep-she said they do not gouge during times like these, but they have limits on orders for infection control stuff like masks.  although i haven't checked the prices, but we can only order 3 boxes of level 3.  i never thought of asking her how often and what  larger offices do.   i've known her a long time, so i've taken her word for it.  what i am going to do?  shop around? 

here's a real catch 22-what if obtaining the proper infection control armamentarium becomes more difficult allowing any facility for that matter unable to maintain OSHA standards.  this becomes a real slippery slope.  do not interpret this as sounding any alarms, but i believe the media has been causing some unnecessary panic and this is some of the collateral damage.  pretty close to yelling fire in a crowded theater

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: lawdog77 on March 09, 2020, 08:11:58 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on March 09, 2020, 07:10:57 PM

If she is a SAHM with school age children, what does she normally keep busy with while the kids are at school?

If you want to feel sorry for someone, feel sorry for the paycheck-to-paycheck single moms who will have to take unpaid leave to watch their kids.

I agree with you 1000%, my comment about my sister in law was tounge in cheek, as her children can be quite the misfits.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 09, 2020, 08:39:31 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 09, 2020, 08:01:59 PM

thought i posted this earlier-as recent as saturday, 3/7 was able to order kleenex germ wipe tissues. 8  packs of 48.  allowed me to get 2 so i got 768 wipes for $44.00 or roughly .05-.06 per wipe.  supposed to arrive 3/9-3/16.  they haven't yet come today, but not going to hold my breath

along the same lines, spoke to my sullivan-schein rep-she said they do not gouge during times like these, but they have limits on orders for infection control stuff like masks.  although i haven't checked the prices, but we can only order 3 boxes of level 3.  i never thought of asking her how often and what  larger offices do.   i've known her a long time, so i've taken her word for it.  what i am going to do?  shop around? 

here's a real catch 22-what if obtaining the proper infection control armamentarium becomes more difficult allowing any facility for that matter unable to maintain OSHA standards.  this becomes a real slippery slope.  do not interpret this as sounding any alarms, but i believe the media has been causing some unnecessary panic and this is some of the collateral damage.  pretty close to yelling fire in a crowded theater

Is it the media's fault if this is exactly what happened in China and SK?  There is a world wide shortage, and there will be.  What we see now is just the first wave of panic.  I'd wager that the true panic hasn't set in because the vast majority of people in the US aren't taking this seriously, or haven't even thought about stocking up on supplies.  Sure some have.  They're bring proactive.  Just wait until people start tracking trucks with loads of supplies meant for the stores and they don't make it to the store.  Then we will know what true panic is.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 09, 2020, 08:44:49 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 09, 2020, 08:39:31 PM

Is it the media's fault if this is exactly what happened in China and SK?  There is a world wide shortage, and there will be.  What we see now is just the first wave of panic.  I'd wager that the true panic hasn't set in because the vast majority of people in the US aren't taking this seriously, or haven't even thought about stocking up on supplies.  Sure some have.  They're bring proactive.  Just wait until people start tracking trucks with loads of supplies meant for the stores and they don't make it to the store.  Then we will know what true panic is.

no, not the media's fault but there is "other stuff" happening

we aren't taking this seriously enough?  no, we haven't put everyone under house arrest yet, but judging by shortages of "stuff" and half empty airlines, trains, closing "stuff" etc etc.  so what will it be tipping you off that we are taking this seriously?  not everything happens in your backyard.  the stock market seems to be taking it seriously...actually too seriously, but that's a whole different topic that gives me a tummy ache right now

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 09, 2020, 08:51:13 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 09, 2020, 08:44:49 PM

no, not the media's fault but there is "other stuff" happening

we aren't taking this seriously enough?  no, we haven't put everyone under house arrest yet, but judging by shortages of "stuff" and half empty airlines, trains, closing "stuff" etc etc.  so what will it be tipping you off that we are taking this seriously?  not everything happens in your backyard.  the stock market seems to be taking it seriously...actually too seriously, but that's a whole different topic that gives me a tummy ache right now

Fair enough, obviously, emotion is what they sell, but there will never be a shortage of outrage in the news. 

We haven't put people under house arrest yet, but we should consider it.  The US is letting this progress just like other countries where things went very badly... which seems to be everywhere but SK and Singapore (not really fair to judge).  Europe is being reactive, and its not working out so well.  SEA is doing it right. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 09, 2020, 09:09:01 PM

Thought I posted this, but obviously didn't go through.

Regarding Italy's healthcare. There care is great. The problem has nothing to do with the healthcare system it has to do with:

1. Italy has the oldest population in all of Europe.
2. Enough cases slipped through the initial cracks, allowing spread.
3. Politicians were emphasizing that there was nothing to worry about and that it was just a flu. Leading to people not taking precautions.

That led to rapid spread. People not going to the doctor, or quarantining themselves, and the result is what you see now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 09, 2020, 09:13:20 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 09, 2020, 09:09:01 PM

Thought I posted this, but obviously didn't go through.

Regarding Italy's healthcare. There care is great. The problem has nothing to do with the healthcare system it has to do with:

1. Italy has the oldest population in all of Europe.
2. Enough cases slipped through the initial cracks, allowing spread.
3. Politicians were emphasizing that there was nothing to worry about and that it was just a flu. Leading to people not taking precautions.

That led to rapid spread. People not going to the doctor, or quarantining themselves, and the result is what you see now.

America - "Two out of three ain't bad"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on March 09, 2020, 10:20:30 PM

Quote from: reinko on March 09, 2020, 03:21:49 PM

Yay for your kid who wants to price gouge and profit off the fears of their fellow man?

To be fair, he said “profit,” not “gouge.”

Frankly, if there was an oversupply in one part of the country and a shortage in the other, shipping product to your kid to distribute at a fair profit (to cover the time/effort) seems like it would be doing society a favor.

Maintain perspective, people. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 09, 2020, 10:35:36 PM

Quote from: Benny B on March 09, 2020, 10:20:30 PM

To be fair, he said “profit,” not “gouge.”

Frankly, if there was an oversupply in one part of the country and a shortage in the other, shipping product to your kid to distribute at a fair profit (to cover the time/effort) seems like it would be doing society a favor.

Maintain perspective, people.

This. Plus maybe his kid needed toilet paper, he can use the hand San to barter for it. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 09, 2020, 10:56:15 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 09, 2020, 08:01:59 PM

here's a real catch 22-what if obtaining the proper infection control armamentarium becomes more difficult allowing any facility for that matter unable to maintain OSHA standards.  this becomes a real slippery slope. 

Seriously dude, have you been living under a rock? I've been telling you this. This is already happening.  Healthcare centers in the US with 100s of clinics can't get resupplied. Dr's, PA's, MA's are freaking out. We're already past the point of being able to stop this. 

And to the Twitter thread from the Italian doc, read it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Marquette Gyros on March 09, 2020, 11:14:26 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 09, 2020, 10:35:36 PM

This. Plus maybe his kid needed toilet paper, he can use the hand San to barter for it.

The worst part is that he willingly lives in San Bernardino.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 09, 2020, 11:54:24 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 09, 2020, 10:56:15 PM

Seriously dude, have you been living under a rock? I've been telling you this. This is already happening.  Healthcare centers in the US with 100s of clinics can't get resupplied. Dr's, PA's, MA's are freaking out. We're already past the point of being able to stop this. 

And to the Twitter thread from the Italian doc, read it.

Quote

/ I may be repeating myself, but I want to fight this sense of security that I see outside of the epicenters, as if nothing was going to happen "here". The media in Europe are reassuring, politicians are reassuring, while there's little to be reassured of. #COVID19 #coronavirus

2/ This is the English translation of a post of another ICU physician in Bergamo, Dr. Daniele Macchini. Read until the end "After much thought about whether and what to write about what is happening to us, I felt that silence was not responsible.

3/ I will therefore try to convey to people far from our reality what we are living in Bergamo in these days of Covid-19 pandemic. I understand the need not to create panic, but when the message of the dangerousness of what is happening does not reach people I shudder.

4/ I myself watched with some amazement the reorganization of the entire hospital in the past week, when our current enemy was still in the shadows: the wards slowly "emptied", elective activitieswere interrupted, intensive care were freed up to create as many beds as possible.

5/ All this rapid transformation brought an atmosphere of silence and surreal emptiness to the corridors of the hospital that we did not yet understand, waiting for a war that was yet to begin and that many (including me) were not so sure would ever come with such ferocity.

6/ I still remember my night call a week ago when I was waiting for the results of a swab. When I think about it, my anxiety over one possible case seems almost ridiculous and unjustified, now that I've seen what's happening. Well, the situation now is dramatic to say the least.

7/ The war has literally exploded and battles are uninterrupted day and night. But now that need for beds has arrived in all its drama. One after the other the departments that had been emptied fill up at an impressive pace.

8/ The boards with the names of the patients, of different colours depending on the operating unit, are now all red and instead of surgery you see the diagnosis, which is always the damned same: bilateral interstitial pneumonia.

9/ Now, explain to me which flu virus causes such a rapid drama. [post continues comparing covid19 to flu, link below]. And while there are still people who boast of not being afraid by ignoring directions, protesting because their normal routine is"temporarily" put in crisis,

10/ the epidemiological disaster is taking place. And there are no more surgeons, urologists, orthopedists, we are only doctors who suddenly become part of a single team to face this tsunami that has overwhelmed us.

11/ Cases are multiplying, we arrive at a rate of 15-20 admissions per day all for the same reason. The results of the swabs now come one after the other: positive, positive, positive. Suddenly the E.R. is collapsing.

12/ Reasons for the access always the same: fever and breathing difficulties, fever and cough, respiratory failure. Radiology reports always the same: bilateral interstitial pneumonia, bilateral interstitial pneumonia, bilateral interstitial pneumonia. All to be hospitalized.

13/ Someone already to be intubated and go to intensive care. For others it's too late... Every ventilator becomes like gold: those in operating theatres that have now suspended their non-urgent activity become intensive care places that did not exist before.

14/ The staff is exhausted. I saw the tiredness on faces that didn't know what it was despite the already exhausting workloads they had. I saw a solidarity of all of us, who never failed to go to our internist colleagues to ask "what can I do for you now?"

15/ Doctors who move beds and transfer patients, who administer therapies instead of nurses. Nurses with tears in their eyes because we can't save everyone, and the vital parameters of several patients at the same time reveal an already marked destiny.

16/ There are no more shifts, no more hours. Social life is suspended for us. We no longer see our families for fear of infecting them. Some of us have already become infected despite the protocols.

17/ Some of our colleagues who are infected also have infected relatives and some of their relatives are already struggling between life and death. So be patient, you can't go to the theatre, museums or the gym. Try to have pity on the myriad of old people you could exterminate.

18/ We just try to make ourselves useful. You should do the same: we influence the life and death of a few dozen people. You with yours, many more. Please share this message. We must spread the word to prevent what is happening here from happening all over Italy."

20/ I finish by saying that I really don't understand this war on panic. The only reason I see is mask shortages, but there's no mask on sale anymore. We don't have a lot of studies, but is it panic really worse than neglect and carelessness during an epidemic of this sort?

19/ Full post here, you can DeepL:

«Con le nostre azioni influenziamo la vita e la morte di molte persone»Con un lungo post su Facebook, il dottor Daniele Macchini, medico dell’Humanitas Gavazzeni, racconta la sua vita in prima linea per contrastare il coronavirus. È una testimonianza da brividi, da legg…https://www.ecodibergamo.it/stories/bergamo-citta/con-le-nostre-azioni-influenziamola-vita-e-la-morte-di-molte-persone_1344030_11/

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Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: SoCalwarrior on March 10, 2020, 12:52:27 AM

Wait, Pearl Jam just canceled their tour? Ok, now it's real to me.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 10, 2020, 07:39:56 AM

The "panic, the end is nigh" crowd should probably step back and look at things a little more detailed. So far the most catastrophic and widespread outbreaks have been in two places, China and Italy. What do those two countries have in common?

-Very dense populations
-Extremely pervasive smoking culture
-Low public hygiene culture(especially northern Italy, hoo boy).
-Aging/older population

There is no doubt that the virus is something to be vigilant about and there is also no doubt that if what is happening in Italy were happening, in say, New York State that there would be a lot of panic and stress on the system.....but I don't think that the virus is nearly deadly enough nor going to be widespread enough to do more than cause a short term recession and stress people out for a couple of weeks.

I think 6 months from now we're going to have tons of think pieces on why all the hullabaloo was and why the media is bad and then we'll have counter think pieces about how nothing happened which means the system worked so the angst was all justified.....good times

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 10, 2020, 07:43:23 AM

Yeah the Facebook memes and Presidential tweets comparing this to the flu in hopes of minimizing the problem don't really understand the point.  It's not about stopping healthy people like myself from catching this.  It's about slowing the spread so our health system can manage it when it REALLY starts.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 10, 2020, 07:44:13 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 10, 2020, 07:39:56 AM

The "panic, the end is nigh" crowd should probably step back and look at things a little more detailed. So far the most catastrophic and widespread outbreaks have been in two places, China and Italy. What do those two countries have in common?

-Very dense populations
-Extremely pervasive smoking culture
-Low public hygiene culture(especially northern Italy, hoo boy).
-Aging/older population

There is no doubt that the virus is something to be vigilant about and there is also no doubt that if what is happening in Italy were happening, in say, New York State that there would be a lot of panic and stress on the system.....but I don't think that the virus is nearly deadly enough nor going to be widespread enough to do more than cause a short term recession and stress people out for a couple of weeks.

I think 6 months from now we're going to have tons of think pieces on why all the hullabaloo was and why the media is bad and then we'll have counter think pieces about how nothing happened which means the system worked so the angst was all justified.....good times

Iran too.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 10, 2020, 07:49:46 AM

So when do they suggest you go get tested? Fever? Shortness of breath? Congestion? These seem like symptoms of a cold, so are they advising precaution or what

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Marquette Gyros on March 10, 2020, 07:56:23 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 10, 2020, 07:44:13 AM

Iran too.

Speaking of...
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/irans-coronavirus-problem-lot-worse-it-seems/607663/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on March 10, 2020, 09:10:49 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 10, 2020, 07:49:46 AM

So when do they suggest you go get tested? Fever? Shortness of breath? Congestion? These seem like symptoms of a cold, so are they advising precaution or what

This is the difficulty for me too, and I think its where it becomes impossible to discuss this completely apolitically.  The fact is that we fracked up the response by delaying the production of tests, and now we have a shortage and no way to have a good handle on what is going on. There could be a lot of reasons for that, and it could have happened to any administration (the political pissing match is over why the delay, and how likely it would have been in various admnistrations - which is the kind of stuff we've all agreed not to discuss around here).  But its a fact that we delayed on readying tests, even compared to other countries, and now we don't have remotely enough.

This is resulting in mealy-mouthed, useless guidelines into who should seek tests, and how they should do it.  And that's because none of the powers that be are willing to admit there aren't enough tests, and so we have to restrict access to them more than we should.  Its compounding the error. FWIW, if you haven't traveled to a hot zone, and you haven't had contact with someone you know to have tested positive, you aint getting a test right now. But you might still have covid-19, so unless you have symptoms beyond typical cold-mild flu stuff, self-quarantine and stay outta the health care system.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 10, 2020, 09:13:31 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 10, 2020, 07:44:13 AM

Iran too.

Great point, forgot about Iran....they have all the same intrinsic markers that Italy and China do that make them very vulnerable to an overly negative impact from a virus of this type. Essentially Covid 19 is a respiratory flu, so dense/aging/respiratory adverse nations are going to struggle with it. Add in any infrastructure problems and it gets bad. However the majority of countries in the developed world don't have the perfect storm that Iran/Italy/China has so while it will be impactful it won't be the worst case scenario

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 09:13:51 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 10, 2020, 07:39:56 AM

The "panic, the end is nigh" crowd should probably step back and look at things a little more detailed. So far the most catastrophic and widespread outbreaks have been in two places, China and Italy. What do those two countries have in common?

-Very dense populations
-Extremely pervasive smoking culture
-Low public hygiene culture(especially northern Italy, hoo boy).
-Aging/older population

You are spot on. I just checked The WHO data on smoking rates, and they bear that out.

China: 45.7% of men and 1.4% of women (about 23.5% overall).
Italy: 26.9% of men and 19.6% of women (about 23.8% overall).
US: 17.4% of men and 13.0% of women (about 15.2% overall).

I suspect the dramatic difference between men and women in China is a cultural thing, but even if you take the approximate average, the OVERALL smoking rate in both Italy and China is more than 50% higher than in the US. Combine that with the higher population density, and Italy and China have all the hallmarks of being more susceptible targets than the US. It also wouldn't surprise me if China has less restrictive workplace bans on smoking, so second-hand smoke may also be a bigger factor.

Yes, we need to be vigilant...but I think we need to step back from the ledge....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 10, 2020, 09:23:39 AM

Sounds good guys.  Looks like scoop has figured it out.  Someone alert the WHO and CDC that this is just a smokers disease.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 10, 2020, 09:25:32 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 10, 2020, 09:23:39 AM

Sounds good guys.  Looks like scoop has figured it out.  Someone alert the WHO and CDC that this is just a smokers disease.

That's sort of a ridiculous conclusion. The point they were making was why the spread has been explosive in those areas and severity has been worse.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Bocephys on March 10, 2020, 09:27:43 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 10, 2020, 09:13:31 AM

Great point, forgot about Iran....they have all the same intrinsic markers that Italy and China do that make them very vulnerable to an overly negative impact from a virus of this type. Essentially Covid 19 is a respiratory flu, so dense/aging/respiratory adverse nations are going to struggle with it. Add in any infrastructure problems and it gets bad. However the majority of countries in the developed world don't have the perfect storm that Iran/Italy/China has so while it will be impactful it won't be the worst case scenario

Wouldn't the rural US have most of those same markers (outside of population density of course)?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 09:31:19 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 10, 2020, 09:23:39 AM

Sounds good guys.  Looks like scoop has figured it out.  Someone alert the WHO and CDC that this is just a smokers disease.

Hyperbolic much?

Nobody said it is "just a smokers disease," and mu03eng and I both added that the US still has to be vigilant. But the 50% higher rate of smoking, combined with the higher population density, are risk factors that both WHO and CDC acknowledge.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 09:37:50 AM

Quote from: Bocephys on March 10, 2020, 09:27:43 AM

Wouldn't the rural US have most of those same markers (outside of population density of course)?

Likely so. But you can be highly susceptible, and you still won't get the illness if you don't come into close contact with someone who carries the virus.

It's a combination of risk factors like age, smoking, etc...plus coming into close contact with someone who carries the virus (which increases with population density).

The US has relatively low smoking rates and population density, and a younger population than most of Western Europe. So while we still have plenty of reason to be vigilant, there is also reason to believe we won't see the extremes they are seeing in Italy and China.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 10, 2020, 09:48:55 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 09:37:50 AM

Likely so. But you can be highly susceptible, and you still won't get the illness if you don't come into close contact with someone who carries the virus.

It's a combination of risk factors like age, smoking, etc...plus coming into close contact with someone who carries the virus (which increases with population density).

The US has relatively low smoking rates and population density, and a younger population than most of Western Europe. So while we still have plenty of reason to be vigilant, there is also reason to believe we won't see the extremes they are seeing in Italy and China.

Just curious, where besides your and mu03eng's conjecture have you read that smokers contract the disease at a higher rate than average?

And since we're talking about smokers...

he ten countries with the highest smoking rates are:

    Kiribati (52.40%)
    Nauru (47.50%)
    Greece (42.65%)
    Serbia (41.65%)
    Russia (40.90%)
    Jordan (40.45%)
    Indonesia (39.90%)
    Bosnia and Herzegovina (38.60%)
    Lebanon (38.30%)
    Chile (38.00%)

Those are the ten countries with the highest smoking rates.  Strange that I don't see China or Italy on those lists.  Yet Covid2019 exists in 8 of those 10 places... and the two not on the list are tiny oceanic islands.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 10, 2020, 10:01:47 AM

The best news right now:

New cases in China are declining dramatically. Xi Jinping is visiting Wuhan today as a sign of confidence.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-51813876

3,000 deaths in China sounds like a lot...but for a country of 1.386 billion, it really isn't. Yes, I know the caveat about the trustworthiness of China's numbers, but it does sound like this thing is coming under control. What can we learn from them?

Also, I know the Gates Foundation has chipped in a bit for this, by why are they not pouring more money into this?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 10, 2020, 10:05:35 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 10, 2020, 09:48:55 AM

Just curious, where besides your and mu03eng's conjecture have you read that smokers contract the disease at a higher rate than average?

And since we're talking about smokers...

he ten countries with the highest smoking rates are:

    Kiribati (52.40%)
    Nauru (47.50%)
    Greece (42.65%)
    Serbia (41.65%)
    Russia (40.90%)
    Jordan (40.45%)
    Indonesia (39.90%)
    Bosnia and Herzegovina (38.60%)
    Lebanon (38.30%)
    Chile (38.00%)

Those are the ten countries with the highest smoking rates.  Strange that I don't see China or Italy on those lists.  Yet Covid2019 exists in 8 of those 10 places... and the two not on the list are tiny oceanic islands.

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/925855

https://www.google.com/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/6634469/coronavirus-smoking/amp/


There's more but then there's also the correlation of smoking to things like heart disease, diabetes, various lung diseases all of which have shown to be risk factors for worse cases of the virus.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 10:15:40 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 10, 2020, 09:48:55 AM

Just curious, where besides your and mu03eng's conjecture have you read that smokers contract the disease at a higher rate than average?

I never said they contract the disease at higher rates.

When they contract the virus, smokers are at risk for having more severe outcomes. Just like older people. Here is a UCSF paper citing a study that showed that smokers in China were at 14 times higher risk than non-smokers to have serious outcomes (including death) if they contracted covid-19. https://tobacco.ucsf.edu/reduce-your-risk-serious-lung-disease-caused-corona-virus-quitting-smoking-and-vaping

So no, it isn't just conjecture that smoking is a huge risk factor for a serious illness.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on March 10, 2020, 10:18:34 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 10, 2020, 09:48:55 AM

Just curious, where besides your and mu03eng's conjecture have you read that smokers contract the disease at a higher rate than average?

And since we're talking about smokers...

he ten countries with the highest smoking rates are:

    Kiribati (52.40%)
    Nauru (47.50%)
    Greece (42.65%)
    Serbia (41.65%)
    Russia (40.90%)
    Jordan (40.45%)
    Indonesia (39.90%)
    Bosnia and Herzegovina (38.60%)
    Lebanon (38.30%)
    Chile (38.00%)

Those are the ten countries with the highest smoking rates.  Strange that I don't see China or Italy on those lists.  Yet Covid2019 exists in 8 of those 10 places... and the two not on the list are tiny oceanic islands.

Out of curiosity, would you be willing to disclose your current position in BTC and how far upside down you are?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warrior2008 on March 10, 2020, 10:20:08 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 09:37:50 AM

Likely so. But you can be highly susceptible, and you still won't get the illness if you don't come into close contact with someone who carries the virus.

It's a combination of risk factors like age, smoking, etc...plus coming into close contact with someone who carries the virus (which increases with population density).

The US has relatively low smoking rates and population density, and a younger population than most of Western Europe. So while we still have plenty of reason to be vigilant, there is also reason to believe we won't see the extremes they are seeing in Italy and China.

4 of the 5 NYC boroughs have a higher population density than any Italian city.  In fact 14 US metro areas have a higher population density than any Italian city.  It jumps to 19 US metro areas if you want to compare it to the Italian epicenter of Milan.  And its great that the US has lower smoking rates, it will undoubtedly help.  But we also are leaders in hypertension and diabetes which are comorbidities to the virus which wouldn't. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 10, 2020, 10:21:04 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 10, 2020, 10:05:35 AM

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/925855

https://www.google.com/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/6634469/coronavirus-smoking/amp/


There's more but then there's also the correlation of smoking to things like heart disease, diabetes, various lung diseases all of which have shown to be risk factors for worse cases of the virus.

Well of course more people die when they are smokers and have underlying conditions.  I said 'contract' not 'expire'. 

I hope you understand why that is important.  What happens in the US and UK when the obese population gets the disease and start expiring?  Do countries with low numbers of obese people get to say, "oh no big deal, it primarily impacts smokers and obese populations"?  That's my point.  Pointing to smoking as problematic is a no brainer.  But smoking isn't the only factor that contributes to death from Covid19.  So stating that the US should have better outcomes because there aren't as many smokers is utter foolishness.

The main reason people survive this disease is proper medical treatment.  This is why testing is so important.  People that contract the disease need to be quarantined (in a hospital), and the people they have come into contact with need to self quarantine for a minimum of two weeks.  This doesn't mean go to the store, this doesn't mean go to work, this doesn't mean go to church.  Its stay home with all the people that live in the home.  If conditions of people in the home deteriorate then they go to the hospital.  When people act like this is, "just the flu, lol" they infect others who are more at risk, and we have what happened in China, Italy, and Iran... and what is happening in Spain, France, Germany... and coming soon to the USA.  SK showed the world how to deal with this.  Test everyone that came into contact with someone with Covid19, and then quarantine those who show symptoms and move from there.  That is what needs to happen world wide. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on March 10, 2020, 10:22:12 AM

Older than 50, enjoy your last Arby’s...

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/coronavirus-hard-older-people-scientists-aren-t-sure-why-n1153701

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 10, 2020, 10:22:38 AM

Quote from: Benny B on March 10, 2020, 10:18:34 AM

Out of curiosity, would you be willing to disclose your current position in BTC and how far upside down you are?

Well, I bought heavily at 4k.  So I'm fine.  I have zero plans to sell anytime soon.  I won't say how much I bought... ever.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on March 10, 2020, 10:25:13 AM

Quote from: Coleman on March 10, 2020, 10:01:47 AM

Also, I know the Gates Foundation has chipped in a bit for this, by why are they not pouring more money into this?

I don't know this, but my first guess would be that there is a lack of NGO's active in this space?  If the responses are being handled almost entirely by the governments of each country, there aren't really entities to whom foundations could contribute to help with the emergency response?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 10:35:20 AM

Quote from: Warrior2008 on March 10, 2020, 10:20:08 AM

4 of the 5 NYC boroughs have a higher population density than any Italian city.  In fact 14 US metro areas have a higher population density than any Italian city.  It jumps to 19 US metro areas if you want to compare it to the Italian epicenter of Milan.  And its great that the US has lower smoking rates, it will undoubtedly help.  But we also are leaders in hypertension and diabetes which are comorbidities to the virus which wouldn't.

No question there are parts of the US that have high risk factors for spread. But we also have huge swaths of land that are virtually empty compared to most of Western Europe.

Again - I never said there isn't cause for concern. Only that, as a relative thing, we have good reason to believe that places like China and Italy may very well be the worst of it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 10, 2020, 10:42:45 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 10:35:20 AM

No question there are parts of the US that have high risk factors for spread. But we also have huge swaths of land that are virtually empty compared to most of Western Europe.

Again - I never said there isn't cause for concern. Only that, as a relative thing, we have good reason to believe that places like China and Italy may very well be the worst of it.

Absolutely, but this moves via people... and we don't stay in one place, or out on the range in Wyoming.  We go to work, stores, and school. 

Small villages in China were not immune either.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Bocephys on March 10, 2020, 10:58:35 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 09:37:50 AM

Likely so. But you can be highly susceptible, and you still won't get the illness if you don't come into close contact with someone who carries the virus.

It's a combination of risk factors like age, smoking, etc...plus coming into close contact with someone who carries the virus (which increases with population density).

The US has relatively low smoking rates and population density, and a younger population than most of Western Europe. So while we still have plenty of reason to be vigilant, there is also reason to believe we won't see the extremes they are seeing in Italy and China.

It will be interesting to see if western culture, specifically the US, plays a role in making things worse than needed within their regions.  China could impose extreme quarantine measures and no one batted an eyelash.  I was surprised to see Italy go as far as they did yesterday, but we haven't seen how effective it will be yet. 

If the US gets to a similar point, will the majority of people actually listen to prevent further spread?  I'm betting no.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on March 10, 2020, 11:10:44 AM

Ivy league just canceled all conference tournaments.

This is starting to get real for the us. The last time events like this were canceled was when Jordan went to play for the tunesquad

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 10, 2020, 11:27:31 AM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on March 10, 2020, 11:10:44 AM

Ivy league just canceled all conference tournaments.

This is starting to get real for the us. The last time events like this were canceled was when Jordan went to play for the tunesquad

(https://media0.giphy.com/media/l0ErK5H6exTmBN7ri/giphy.gif?cid=790b761117fc684b86f841920082d69a10f25bf68bcb4d34&rid=giphy.gif)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: lawdog77 on March 10, 2020, 11:48:43 AM

St. JOhn's and the Coronavirus

https://nypost.com/2020/03/10/st-johns-university-asks-students-to-vacate-dorms-amid-coronavirus-outbreak/ (https://nypost.com/2020/03/10/st-johns-university-asks-students-to-vacate-dorms-amid-coronavirus-outbreak/)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on March 10, 2020, 12:23:18 PM

Quote from: lawdog77 on March 10, 2020, 11:48:43 AM

St. JOhn's and the Coronavirus

https://nypost.com/2020/03/10/st-johns-university-asks-students-to-vacate-dorms-amid-coronavirus-outbreak/ (https://nypost.com/2020/03/10/st-johns-university-asks-students-to-vacate-dorms-amid-coronavirus-outbreak/)

But are they shelling out the plane tickets

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 12:44:58 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 10, 2020, 10:42:45 AM

Absolutely, but this moves via people... and we don't stay in one place, or out on the range in Wyoming.  We go to work, stores, and school. 

Small villages in China were not immune either.

Agreed. But I was not talking about anyplace being "immune" from an outbreak. I was just talking about the likely severity when an outbreak occurs.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 10, 2020, 12:55:45 PM

https://www.channel3000.com/health-officials-confirm-third-case-of-coronavirus-in-wisconsin/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 10, 2020, 01:05:26 PM

Why does anyone NEED to be tested?

Why not treat this like influenza? Take appropriate precautions before illness. Then, if you become symptomatic, stay home and get healthy.

If you become symptomatic and have comorbidities (respiratory dysfunction/elderly/autoimmune) or become severely compromised/ill, then go to hospital.

Seems pretty straightforward and should be treated like any other viral illness.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 10, 2020, 01:12:08 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 10, 2020, 01:05:26 PM

Why does anyone NEED to be tested?

Why not treat this like influenza? Take appropriate precautions before illness. Then, if you become symptomatic, stay home and get healthy.

If you become symptomatic and have comorbidities (respiratory dysfunction/elderly/autoimmune) or become severely compromised/ill, then go to hospital.

Seems pretty straightforward and should be treated like any other viral illness.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/l3q2K5jinAlChoCLS/giphy.gif)

Because it is nothing like influenza.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 10, 2020, 01:21:34 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 10, 2020, 01:12:08 PM

(https://media.giphy.com/media/l3q2K5jinAlChoCLS/giphy.gif)

Because it is nothing like influenza.

So your position is anyone with possible covid-19 symptoms needs to seek testing?

Here are the current CDC recs:

Quote

If you are a close contact of someone with COVID-19 and develop symptoms of COVID-19, call your healthcare provider and tell them about your symptoms and your exposure. They will decide whether you need to be tested, but keep in mind that there is no treatment for COVID-19 and people who are mildly ill are able to isolate at home

If you are a resident in a community where there is ongoing spread of COVID-19 and you develop COVID-19 symptoms, call your healthcare provider and tell them about your symptoms. They will decide whether you need to be tested, but keep in mind that there is no treatment for COVID-19 and people who are mildly ill are able to isolate at home.

For people who are ill with COVID-19, but are not sick enough to be hospitalized, please follow CDC guidance on how to reduce the risk of spreading your illness to others. People who are mildly ill with COVID-19 are able to isolate at home during their illness.

Sure sounds like EVERYONE demonstrating symptoms doesn't NEED to be tested

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on March 10, 2020, 01:43:29 PM

Quote from: lawdog77 on March 10, 2020, 11:48:43 AM

St. JOhn's and the Coronavirus

https://nypost.com/2020/03/10/st-johns-university-asks-students-to-vacate-dorms-amid-coronavirus-outbreak/ (https://nypost.com/2020/03/10/st-johns-university-asks-students-to-vacate-dorms-amid-coronavirus-outbreak/)

One of my daughters is currently home for spring break with a friend. Another daughter is coming for spring break on Friday with a friend. I can't help but wonder if we're going to be hosting one or two friends for much longer than was expected.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Sir Lawrence on March 10, 2020, 01:46:16 PM

This seems like a sensible article:

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/solutions/2020/03/10/uw-madison-health-expert-has-advice-on-how-to-fight-coronavirus/5004659002/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on March 10, 2020, 01:51:29 PM

It would seem that - at this point - the primary benefit of testing is to observe the spread of the virus; the only other reason would be to fine-tune the mortality rate. 

Maybe we could have used testing to determine prophylactic/preemptive measures early on... which, incidentally, was pretty much the point of my original post on page 1.  But at this point a) we now have a much better idea of the relative mortality of the virus (not to mention high-risk groups) and b) it's already penetrated our borders.  So testing isn't going to stop anything from spreading... as we've already seen in Ohio, people in self-quarantine are already breaking quarantine.  In fact, the only action that can be taken on widespread testing is to enact selective quarantine measures* on the public, which I would think is a measure of last-resort.

Also, it appears that if you have symptoms, treatment is going to be the same for the individual whether or not they test positive.**  So if it's all but certain that 60-70% of the world's population will eventually be exposed to the virus, and your response is gearing up accordingly, I don't see any benefit in testing everyone.



*Selective quarantine measures are not putting entire cities, states, regions under quarantine... SQM is rounding people up who have tested positive and forcibly putting them under quarantine, be that in their home or elsewhere.

**Please note that I did not say "treatment is the same for everyone whether or not they test positive."  Obviously you are not going to treat a healthy 26-year old with symptoms the same way you treat a 62-year old with symptoms.  But if the 62-year old tests positive, you're going to treat them the same way as if he she did not test positive.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on March 10, 2020, 01:53:53 PM

Quote from: Sir Lawrence on March 10, 2020, 01:46:16 PM

This seems like a sensible article:

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/solutions/2020/03/10/uw-madison-health-expert-has-advice-on-how-to-fight-coronavirus/5004659002/

No health expert should ever end an article with "May the force be with you." 

(Not to mention that health experts should stick to health issues and let psychologists and economists handle the psychology and economic issues, respectively.)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 10, 2020, 02:00:36 PM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 10, 2020, 01:43:29 PM

One of my daughters is currently home for spring break with a friend. Another daughter is coming for spring break on Friday with a friend. I can't help but wonder if we're going to be hosting one or two friends for much longer than was expected.

Just got off the phone with a colleague with a daughter at UMass...they've been told they aren't coming back after spring break and that all classes will be virtual for the remainder of the semester. Harvard is going on a break a week early and doing the same thing.

Looks like generally organizations are taking steps to flatten the infection curve and to Benny's point, just about everyone will get it and self-treat whether they know it or not. Hopefully the curve flattens enough in the next 3 weeks that the health systems manage through and we all have a good laugh about it over beers this summer.

I do wonder if the lasting impact of this virus is the acceleration of social distancing that was already going on(kids facetiming while hanging out instead of playing together in the same room or works tele-commuting, etc).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 10, 2020, 02:02:49 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 10, 2020, 02:00:36 PM

I do wonder if the lasting impact of this virus is the acceleration of social distancing that was already going on(kids facetiming while hanging out instead of playing together in the same room or works tele-commuting, etc).

I've also been thinking about lasting impacts, even after the outbreak is over. The one you listed is a good example. Do schools go to more online-based instruction? Do companies get serious about Telework for employees who don't really need to be in the office? Do more people get flu shots next year?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 10, 2020, 02:05:54 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 10, 2020, 02:00:36 PM

Just got off the phone with a colleague with a daughter at UMass...they've been told they aren't coming back after spring break and that all classes will be virtual for the remainder of the semester. Harvard is going on a break a week early and doing the same thing.

Looks like generally organizations are taking steps to flatten the infection curve and to Benny's point, just about everyone will get it and self-treat whether they know it or not. Hopefully the curve flattens enough in the next 3 weeks that the health systems manage through and we all have a good laugh about it over beers this summer.

I do wonder if the lasting impact of this virus is the acceleration of social distancing that was already going on(kids facetiming while hanging out instead of playing together in the same room or works tele-commuting, etc).

Super important.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 10, 2020, 02:06:38 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 10, 2020, 01:34:49 PM

JFC.  Calm down.  Smoke a bowl and listen to Ramblin Man.

You sure do like to tell me to smoke weed. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on March 10, 2020, 02:11:36 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 10, 2020, 02:00:36 PM

I do wonder if the lasting impact of this virus is the acceleration of social distancing that was already going on(kids facetiming while hanging out instead of playing together in the same room or works tele-commuting, etc).

Interesting thought.  I think that would be highly dependent on how the under-40 population is ultimately affected (if at all).  Everyone I've talked to around the country (most in their 40's and 50's) seems to be exponentially more concerned with the public reaction to the virus than they are about actually contracting the virus.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 10, 2020, 02:13:47 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 10, 2020, 01:21:34 PM

So your position is anyone with possible covid-19 symptoms needs to seek testing?

Here are the current CDC recs:
Sure sounds like EVERYONE demonstrating symptoms doesn't NEED to be tested

Yes, that is my position.  It will save lives, and that is what we should be prioritizing.  You start with people who have had close contact with those who are infected and then you test people who have been where the infected have been, then you test the people who have had contact with those folks.  It is an outward spiral that forms a net that finds out who has it, and how and where it is transmitted.  Cast a wide net, catch a lot of fish.  What is the reason to not test everyone?  Cost?  I get that there is a lack of test kits, but that should be resolved quickly.  I also imagine that China would be willing to send the US and others kits as soon as they can produce them.

The CDC can kick rocks.  They're telling people to not wear masks despite SK's advice that it helps.  Their response to this appears to be very inadequate on the surface as well.  Hopefully, they have a better plan than, 'wait and see'.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 10, 2020, 02:21:21 PM

I have three coworkers within a couple feet with kids under 5, and two that are older plus two older parents both with asthma. My concern is infecting them, if I get it I'd be scared a bit (shortness of breath freaks me out) but the huge concern would be spreading it. Thus I'd like to know if I have it rather than fight it with chicken soup and a humidifier.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TallTitan34 on March 10, 2020, 03:09:04 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 10, 2020, 02:13:47 PM

The CDC can kick rocks.  They're telling people to not wear masks despite SK's advice that it helps.

Or how about you leave the masks to the people who actually need them.  Healthcare workers and people who are sick.

I picture you walking around with three masks layered on each other.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on March 10, 2020, 03:13:09 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 10, 2020, 02:13:47 PM

What is the reason to not test everyone? 

Panic?  General misunderstanding of Covid-19?  Hoarding?  President Biden? 

Sure, all of that's happening already. 

Imagine what would happen if 50 million people - most without symptoms - happened to test positive... Mass panic?  Breakdown of rational thought/discourse?  Nationwide shortages of basic human needs?  President Pelosi (by line-of-succession)?

FFS, Hards... you're barely still on the rails as it is.  I really don't want to see you - or anyone, for that matter - on WMTV news with Molotov cocktails in tow.



If you are going full tin-foil... here's an excellent reason not to test: Because the faster we can expose all Americans, the faster we can build up an immunity that's effective against all strains of Covid-19 strain before the virus mutates into something much more lethal, which is what the Wuhan bioweapons lab originally intended before one of their researchers didn't properly go through de-con protocol before running out to the market to pick-up the celebratory bat-wing stew for the office lunch party.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on March 10, 2020, 03:18:49 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 10, 2020, 02:13:47 PM

The CDC can kick rocks.  They're telling people to not wear masks despite SK's advice that it helps.  Their response to this appears to be very inadequate on the surface as well.  Hopefully, they have a better plan than, 'wait and see'.

Masks will stop you from SPREADING. Masks will do nothing to stop you from RECEIVING.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Lens on March 10, 2020, 03:25:52 PM

Marquette cancels all University-sponsored events during BET in NY.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on March 10, 2020, 03:30:38 PM

Quote from: Benny B on March 10, 2020, 03:13:09 PM

Panic?  General misunderstanding of Covid-19?  Hoarding?  President Biden? 

Sure, all of that's happening already. 

Imagine what would happen if 50 million people - most without symptoms - happened to test positive... Mass panic?  Breakdown of rational thought/discourse?  Nationwide shortages of basic human needs?  President Pelosi (by line-of-succession)?

FFS, Hards... you're barely still on the rails as it is.  I really don't want to see you - or anyone, for that matter - on WMTV news with Molotov cocktails in tow.



If you are going full tin-foil... here's an excellent reason not to test: Because the faster we can expose all Americans, the faster we can build up an immunity that's effective against all strains of Covid-19 strain before the virus mutates into something much more lethal, which is what the Wuhan bioweapons lab originally intended before one of their researchers didn't properly go through de-con protocol before running out to the market to pick-up the celebratory bat-wing stew for the office lunch party.

To the extent that at least this part of that post was serious, viral infections tend to mutate to less-lethal forms of the disease, not more.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 10, 2020, 03:38:51 PM

Quote from: TallTitan34 on March 10, 2020, 03:09:04 PM

Or how about you leave the masks to the people who actually need them.  Healthcare workers and people who are sick.

I picture you walking around with three masks layered on each other.

Lol.  Respirators are not masks.  I think the confusion lies there.  I don't wear either, ever.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 10, 2020, 03:39:27 PM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on March 10, 2020, 03:18:49 PM

Masks will stop you from SPREADING. Masks will do nothing to stop you from RECEIVING.

I'm very aware.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 10, 2020, 03:41:52 PM

Quote from: Benny B on March 10, 2020, 03:13:09 PM

Panic?  General misunderstanding of Covid-19?  Hoarding?  President Biden? 

Sure, all of that's happening already. 

Imagine what would happen if 50 million people - most without symptoms - happened to test positive... Mass panic?  Breakdown of rational thought/discourse?  Nationwide shortages of basic human needs?  President Pelosi (by line-of-succession)?

FFS, Hards... you're barely still on the rails as it is.  I really don't want to see you - or anyone, for that matter - on WMTV news with Molotov cocktails in tow.



If you are going full tin-foil... here's an excellent reason not to test: Because the faster we can expose all Americans, the faster we can build up an immunity that's effective against all strains of Covid-19 strain before the virus mutates into something much more lethal, which is what the Wuhan bioweapons lab originally intended before one of their researchers didn't properly go through de-con protocol before running out to the market to pick-up the celebratory bat-wing stew for the office lunch party.

What have I said is til-foily?  You guys act as if I'm hunkered in a bunker.  I'm not.  I've been saying the same things for over a month.  If you guys want to listen to the CDC that's fine.  I'm just telling you what is reported to work in other places, and then questioning why we aren't following what works.  We are still in the denial phase of this.  My guess is reality starts to hit hard by the end of next week.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 10, 2020, 04:02:24 PM

This image was posted by someone in my LinkedIn Network, so if the curve is off on the 'days' delay, I apologize.  This however, is why I think testing is broad testing is not a bad idea.   None of these countries have shown the ability to yet contain the outbreak or protect vulnerable areas (i.e. nursing homes).  Thus far only a few Asian countries have--and it has been aggressive.  So as Eng said earlier--slow it down, allow the health system and medical supply chain to catch up and make it to the months that hopefully present a lower risk of transmission. 

I also cannot think of areas where less info leads to less uncertainty/panic.   

(https://media-exp1.licdn.com/dms/image/C5622AQFrDOHdYTLwOg/feedshare-shrink_800/0?e=1586995200&v=beta&t=NfIDQ2MAS6y9Bw00CPaqoCNGiaRoFtKdYGqdT15c0mc)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 10, 2020, 04:18:44 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 10, 2020, 02:13:47 PM

Yes, that is my position.  It will save lives, and that is what we should be prioritizing.  You start with people who have had close contact with those who are infected and then you test people who have been where the infected have been, then you test the people who have had contact with those folks.  It is an outward spiral that forms a net that finds out who has it, and how and where it is transmitted.  Cast a wide net, catch a lot of fish.  What is the reason to not test everyone?  Cost?  I get that there is a lack of test kits, but that should be resolved quickly.  I also imagine that China would be willing to send the US and others kits as soon as they can produce them.

The CDC can kick rocks.  They're telling people to not wear masks despite SK's advice that it helps.  Their response to this appears to be very inadequate on the surface as well.  Hopefully, they have a better plan than, 'wait and see'.

I disagree.

If treatment is the same regardless whether a test result is positive or negative, then you don't need the test.

What changes with individual treatment for not at-risk populations? And if they are at-risk, go to the hospital. This is basic medical care/decision-making.

Confused about the "it will save lives" statement.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 10, 2020, 04:25:27 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 10, 2020, 04:18:44 PM

I disagree.

If treatment is the same regardless whether a test result is positive or negative, then you don't need the test.

What changes with individual treatment for not at-risk populations? And if they are at-risk, go to the hospital. This is basic medical care/decision-making.

Confused about the "it will save lives" statement.

We don't have the beds to deal with the at-risk people.  You want to slow the infection rate, and you do that by finding out who is sick and isolating them from big gatherings of people so that we slow down the infection rate.  To put it another way, if you were infected and you knew would you go see grandma at the retirement home?  No, at least I hope the answer is no.  If you don't know you're infected, you may just go anyway.  Now, you may not go if you have the sniffles or flu, but you're smarter, you're educated.  There are a lot of stupid Americans out there.  And this doesn't even account for the asymptomatic spread.  If you don't know you are infected, and are showing no symptoms, you can still spread this.

So that is why we should be testing everyone on the outward spiral.  If we just let this spread without information, we will see results like Italy, Iran, or Hubei province. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TallTitan34 on March 10, 2020, 04:35:00 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 10, 2020, 04:25:27 PM

We don't have the beds to deal with the at-risk people.  You want to slow the infection rate, and you do that by finding out who is sick and isolating them from big gatherings of people so that we slow down the infection rate.  To put it another way, if you were infected and you knew would you go see grandma at the retirement home?  No, at least I hope the answer is no.  If you don't know you're infected, you may just go anyway.  Now, you may not go if you have the sniffles or flu, but you're smarter, you're educated.  There are a lot of stupid Americans out there.  And this doesn't even account for the asymptomatic spread.  If you don't know you are infected, and are showing no symptoms, you can still spread this.

So that is why we should be testing everyone on the outward spiral.  If we just let this spread without information, we will see results like Italy, Iran, or Hubei province.

So what if I get tested, don't have it, catch it the next day, and go visit grandma a few days later?

How often do you expect everyone to get tested?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 10, 2020, 04:36:21 PM

Quote from: TallTitan34 on March 10, 2020, 04:35:00 PM

So what if I get tested, don't have it, catch it the next day, and go visit grandma a few days later?

How often do you expect everyone to get tested?

EvErY sIx HoUrS!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 10, 2020, 04:38:09 PM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on March 10, 2020, 03:18:49 PM

Masks will stop you from SPREADING. Masks will do nothing to stop you from RECEIVING.

Help me out here.   "Expert advice" says the same thing, that masks are for the unwell, to keep their germs in.  Healthy people don't need them.

Then why are health care professionals wearing masks?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TallTitan34 on March 10, 2020, 04:41:13 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 10, 2020, 04:38:09 PM

Help me out here.   "Expert advice" says the same thing, that masks are for the unwell, to keep their germs in.  Healthy people don't need them.

Then why are health care professionals wearing masks?

Because they are extremely close to sick person treating them?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 10, 2020, 04:41:44 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 10, 2020, 04:02:24 PM

This image was posted by someone in my LinkedIn Network, so if the curve is off on the 'days' delay, I apologize.  This however, is why I think testing is broad testing is not a bad idea.   None of these countries have shown the ability to yet contain the outbreak or protect vulnerable areas (i.e. nursing homes).  Thus far only a few Asian countries have--and it has been aggressive.  So as Eng said earlier--slow it down, allow the health system and medical supply chain to catch up and make it to the months that hopefully present a lower risk of transmission. 

I also cannot think of areas where less info leads to less uncertainty/panic.   

(https://media-exp1.licdn.com/dms/image/C5622AQFrDOHdYTLwOg/feedshare-shrink_800/0?e=1586995200&v=beta&t=NfIDQ2MAS6y9Bw00CPaqoCNGiaRoFtKdYGqdT15c0mc)

The curves are off/misleading because the virus doesn't spread at the same rate and with the same distribution pattern in each city. This is one of those charts that is factually accurate but narratively incomplete/misleading.

And the frame of reference is odd, the US is 11.5 days behind Italy in what capacity. Here is Wisconsin we had our first patient test positive and since fully recover over 5 weeks ago. Yes we have two new patients so it is continuing to spread obviously but what occurred in Italy 10.5 days ago that is occurring in the US now?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 10, 2020, 04:42:53 PM

Quote from: TallTitan34 on March 10, 2020, 04:41:13 PM

Because they are extremely close to sick person treating them?

And they know how to use them....Joe and Jane Q Public fiddle with them, touch their face, etc. Healthcare professionals know how to use the equipment appropriately so it will help prevent the receipt of germs.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 10, 2020, 04:43:52 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 10, 2020, 04:42:53 PM

And they know how to use them....Joe and Jane Q Public fiddle with them, touch their face, etc. Healthcare professionals know how to use the equipment appropriately so it will help prevent the receipt of germs.

Also, not all masks are the same

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 10, 2020, 04:48:43 PM

Quote from: TallTitan34 on March 10, 2020, 04:35:00 PM

So what if I get tested, don't have it, catch it the next day, and go visit grandma a few days later?

How often do you expect everyone to get tested?

Well, results are not instant.  So while you await results, you self quarantine.  If you are alerted that you came into contact with another infected person you test again.

That is what works.  What would be the argument against this?  Price of tests?  Availability of tests?  Both of those problems are easily solved.  What is not easily solved is an overwhelmed health care system.  You can train people to do testing, and analyze tests much faster than you can train doctors and nurses, and produce hospitals and ventilators.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 10, 2020, 04:55:21 PM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on March 10, 2020, 03:18:49 PM

Masks will stop you from SPREADING. Masks will do nothing to stop you from RECEIVING.

This is not correct. To work properly for prevention, the masks need to be fitted properly, and N95.  Also, if you're sick, it can help slow the spread, but those infected probably aren't using them correctly either.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TallTitan34 on March 10, 2020, 04:57:32 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 10, 2020, 04:48:43 PM

Well, results are not instant.  So while you await results, you self quarantine.  If you are alerted that you came into contact with another infected person you test again.

Ok so I self quarantine then catch it.  Back to square one.  What if I don't know I came in contact with an infected person?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 10, 2020, 05:03:30 PM

Quote from: TallTitan34 on March 10, 2020, 04:57:32 PM

Ok so I self quarantine then catch it.  Back to square one.  What if I don't know I came in contact with an infected person?

That is exactly why we test, and find out where people have been in the past.  To establish who may or may not be infected.

Information saves lives.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 10, 2020, 05:05:24 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 10, 2020, 05:03:30 PM

That is exactly why we test, and find out where people have been in the past.  To establish who may or may not be infected.

Information saves lives.

That matters at outbreak, we're past that so its not as critical

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on March 10, 2020, 05:12:04 PM

There is a hot rumor spreading around campus that classes are canceled for the rest of the month.

It is not true (at least as of the time of this post).

If your MU kid tells you he doesn't have to go to class, set them straight.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on March 10, 2020, 05:13:36 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on March 10, 2020, 05:12:04 PM

There is a hot rumor spreading around campus that classes are canceled for the rest of the month.

It is not true (at least as of the time of this post).

If your MU kid tells you he doesn't have to go to class, set them straight.

By the end of the week I'm guessing most colleges will be shut down through spring break.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 10, 2020, 05:13:52 PM

This is interesting .. "quarantine lite" ..

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/salvadorhernandez/new-york-rochelle-coronavirus-containment-zone (https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/salvadorhernandez/new-york-rochelle-coronavirus-containment-zone)

Residents of the area will be allowed to leave and enter the zone, small businesses are expected to remain open, and people will be allowed to move about as they would in a normal day, officials said.

What's the point of that?  Maybe they could make the people wear a scarlet "C" or something.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 10, 2020, 05:16:10 PM

You get tested because employers will pay you to stay home!

https://www.businessinsider.com/walmart-coronavirus-leave-policy-kentucky-paid-2020-3

Honestly, I understand the statement "testing doesn't mean much for me", but if you know you have it, you shouldn't go anywhere, and once you feel better, you're supposed to get tested again to be sure your isolation can end.

I don't understand the arguments against testing...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 10, 2020, 05:21:53 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 10, 2020, 05:05:24 PM

That matters at outbreak, we're past that so its not as critical

Explain China, South Korea, Japan, Singapore.

How did they get this under control?

The window narrows every day that we don't implement this sort of solution.  Should have been ramping up the moment that this left China's border.

What is your solution to deal with what is coming?  Let it happen?  Let all the people who are at risk, die?  Bad news, you're talking about letting hundreds of thousands of people die, probably more.  For starters, we have about one million hospital beds available in the US, and 65% of those are occupied with non-Covid19 patients.  Now we look at people with risk factors.  Obesity (99 mllion), kidney disease (30 million), COPD (16 million, low end)... I realize there is plenty of overlap in those numbers, but you get my point.  And no, I'm not saying they're all going to die.  But if we say 60% of the obese population contracts this, and we say only 5% die, we are still talking about just under 3 million people.  You're an engineer (presumably from your name), run the numbers.

What do you suggest?  I'm genuinely curious.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 10, 2020, 05:22:52 PM

Quote from: TallTitan34 on March 10, 2020, 04:57:32 PM

Ok so I self quarantine then catch it.  Back to square one.  What if I don't know I came in contact with an infected person?

If you have symptoms, get tested. Otherwise, no. There is no perfect answer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 05:25:39 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 10, 2020, 02:13:47 PM

Yes, that is my position.  It will save lives, and that is what we should be prioritizing.  You start with people who have had close contact with those who are infected and then you test people who have been where the infected have been, then you test the people who have had contact with those folks.  It is an outward spiral that forms a net that finds out who has it, and how and where it is transmitted.  Cast a wide net, catch a lot of fish.  What is the reason to not test everyone?  Cost?  I get that there is a lack of test kits, but that should be resolved quickly.  I also imagine that China would be willing to send the US and others kits as soon as they can produce them.

The CDC can kick rocks.  They're telling people to not wear masks despite SK's advice that it helps.  Their response to this appears to be very inadequate on the surface as well.  Hopefully, they have a better plan than, 'wait and see'.

Just curious: where did you get your MPH? Or your MD?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 05:30:00 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 10, 2020, 05:16:10 PM

You get tested because employers will pay you to stay home!

https://www.businessinsider.com/walmart-coronavirus-leave-policy-kentucky-paid-2020-3

Honestly, I understand the statement "testing doesn't mean much for me", but if you know you have it, you shouldn't go anywhere, and once you feel better, you're supposed to get tested again to be sure your isolation can end.

I don't understand the arguments against testing...

Simple argument against testing: if you are in a demographic group where you will likely have symptoms like a minor flu, and work for a company that already gives paid sick leave, you will recover perfectly well and at lower cost by staying home and doing appropriate self-care.

Lower cost, same outcome. Is that straightforward enough?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 10, 2020, 05:32:28 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 05:25:39 PM

Just curious: where did you get your MPH? Or your MD?

Same place the rest of us did.  Are you checking to see if I played high school basketball?  Maybe you can dunk.  I don't know if that matters. 

You're not required to listen to my advice, and you should absolutely question it.  I'm going from what I've read, and listened to from credible sources.  If you want me to drop more links, I can.  But you can probably tell, I have an extreme interest in this.

FWIW, my degree from Marquette is in Biomedical Science. 

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 10, 2020, 05:13:52 PM

This is interesting .. "quarantine lite" ..

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/salvadorhernandez/new-york-rochelle-coronavirus-containment-zone (https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/salvadorhernandez/new-york-rochelle-coronavirus-containment-zone)

Residents of the area will be allowed to leave and enter the zone, small businesses are expected to remain open, and people will be allowed to move about as they would in a normal day, officials said.

What's the point of that?  Maybe they could make the people wear a scarlet "C" or something.

Test run to check compliance?  My best guess.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on March 10, 2020, 05:43:48 PM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on March 10, 2020, 05:13:36 PM

By the end of the week I'm guessing most colleges will be shut down through spring break.

Just received from Purdue:

"FUTURE CLASSES AND INSTRUCTION: All faculty and staff should move their courses to online or alternative delivery before March 23 and should be prepared to continue as long as in-person instruction seems inadvisable (potentially through the end of the semester). To be clear, the campus will remain open after spring break. However, starting March 23, students must take their courses online...Students in the residence halls have the option of choosing whether to return to campus or not after spring break. Again, we will work to ensure that all students can complete their program of study online or have other accommodations."


Spring break is next week, so this is taking effect after the break. I wonder if my daughter's friend will still come with her, or if she'll head home. I suppose that will likely depend on what we opt to do (i.e., keep her home or let her return).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 05:45:20 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 10, 2020, 05:32:28 PM

Same place the rest of us did.

FWIW, my degree from Marquette is in Biomedical Science. 

Uh, no. I got my MD from the Medical College of Wisconsin, class of ‘87. I can’t dunk, but I understand epidemiology and disease management, and can read and understand CDC and WHO guidelines.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 10, 2020, 05:50:53 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 05:45:20 PM

Uh, no. I got my MD from the Medical College of Wisconsin, class of ‘87. I can’t dunk, but I understand epidemiology and disease management, and can read and understand CDC and WHO guidelines.

i think that sound we just heard was hards face plant :-X

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 10, 2020, 05:51:26 PM

It's officially in Milwaukee now

https://www.tmj4.com/news/national/coronavirus/uw-milwaukee-extends-spring-break-prepares-to-suspend-in-person-classes-amid-coronavirus-concerns

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 10, 2020, 05:52:56 PM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 10, 2020, 05:43:48 PM

Just received from Purdue:

"FUTURE CLASSES AND INSTRUCTION: All faculty and staff should move their courses to online or alternative delivery before March 23 and should be prepared to continue as long as in-person instruction seems inadvisable (potentially through the end of the semester). To be clear, the campus will remain open after spring break. However, starting March 23, students must take their courses online...Students in the residence halls have the option of choosing whether to return to campus or not after spring break. Again, we will work to ensure that all students can complete their program of study online or have other accommodations."


Spring break is next week, so this is taking effect after the break. I wonder if my daughter's friend will still come with her, or if she'll head home. I suppose that will likely depend on what we opt to do (i.e., keep her home or let her return).

All Indiana University campuses are on-line only classes till April

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 05:56:35 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 10, 2020, 05:50:53 PM

i think that sound we just heard was hards face plant :-X

I hate doing that; the fact that most here didn’t know about my degree shows that. But I can’t tolerate a know-it-all who claims to understand something like this better than the experts at CDC and WHO, and who talk down to anyone who doesn’t follow his lead...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 10, 2020, 06:01:57 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 05:56:35 PM

I hate doing that; the fact that most here didn’t know about my degree shows that. But I can’t tolerate a know-it-all who claims to understand something like this better than the experts at CDC and WHO, and who talk down to anyone who doesn’t follow his lead...

Clearly he overplayed his hand but to be fair I'd wager the vast majority of this board has Business or Communications degrees so in terms of relevance I'd put his knowledge behind yours and the other Medical professionals on here (Dentists excluded) but a heck of a lot more relevant than the majority of us.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 10, 2020, 06:16:05 PM

https://youtu.be/cZFhjMQrVts

https://youtu.be/Q4F2oSQ8CRI

https://youtu.be/qbqQdwvjf7U

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 10, 2020, 06:21:51 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 05:45:20 PM

Uh, no. I got my MD from the Medical College of Wisconsin, class of ‘87. I can’t dunk, but I understand epidemiology and disease management, and can read and understand CDC and WHO guidelines.

I'm pretty sure that was a dunk on my sassy attitude.  Though, I feel like I got set up pretty hard there.  ;D  Does this mean that my opinion counts more than mu03eng?  I'm just checking so I can dunk on him  :P 

As I mentioned earlier, you can take my advice with a grain of salt if you want to.  I'm certainly not an expert.  I, too, understand CDC and WHO guidelines, I just find them to be lacking.  I guess in a week or two, we will see if the guidelines were worth a damn or not.

Do you mind if I ask you what we should do in the face of this?  Follow what the CDC says?  The WHO?  Do you think they're doing an adequate job?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 10, 2020, 06:23:05 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 10, 2020, 06:16:05 PM

https://youtu.be/cZFhjMQrVts

https://youtu.be/Q4F2oSQ8CRI

https://youtu.be/qbqQdwvjf7U

I watched the first 15 minutes of that earlier.  I don't like Rogan, overall, but the guy he has on is an expert, without a doubt.  Highly credentialed, and well known.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 10, 2020, 06:26:34 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 05:56:35 PM

I hate doing that; the fact that most here didn’t know about my degree shows that. But I can’t tolerate a know-it-all who claims to understand something like this better than the experts at CDC and WHO, and who talk down to anyone who doesn’t follow his lead...

Refute what I'm saying.  The WHO refusing to call this a pandemic degrades their credibility.  They were afraid of upsetting China from the beginning of this, and that's why they're still dragging their feet on calling this what it is.

https://www.cfr.org/blog/who-and-china-dereliction-duty

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 06:32:12 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 10, 2020, 06:21:51 PM

I'm pretty sure that was a dunk on my sassy attitude.  Though, I feel like I got set up pretty hard there.  ;D  Does this mean that my opinion counts more than mu03eng?  I'm just checking so I can dunk on him  :P 

As I mentioned earlier, you can take my advice with a grain of salt if you want to.  I'm certainly not an expert.  I, too, understand CDC and WHO guidelines, I just find them to be lacking.  I guess in a week or two, we will see if the guidelines were worth a damn or not.

Do you mind if I ask you what we should do in the face of this?  Follow what the CDC says?  The WHO?  Do you think they're doing an adequate job?

I think the CDC does an excellent job, because it makes its recommendations based on both hard science and pragmatic considerations like cost/benefit ratios and such. That doesn’t mean they can’t be debated, but IMHO it’s reasonable to consider CDC right until convincingly proven otherwise.

And to be sure, they may change their recommendations as this goes on and their knowledge base expands. To me, that doesn’t necessarily mean they are wrong now; it may simply mean they have new data on which to make recommendations.

As for the WHO’s refusal to call this a pandemic, I am at a loss. Like I said, to me CDC is the gold standard.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 10, 2020, 06:35:40 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 06:32:12 PM

I think the CDC does an excellent job, because it makes its recommendations based on both hard science and pragmatic considerations like cost/benefit ratios and such. That doesn’t mean they can’t be debated, but IMHO it’s reasonable to consider CDC right until convincingly proven otherwise.

And to be sure, they may change their recommendations as this goes on and their knowledge base expands. To me, that doesn’t necessarily mean they are wrong now; it may simply mean they have new data on which to make recommendations.

I agree, but they seem to have been caught with their pants down here.  We are at almost a month and a half from patient zero in the US.   Hopefully, they've been working to procure essential medical equipment for our HCWs at the very least.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 06:39:41 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 10, 2020, 06:35:40 PM

I agree, but they seem to have been caught with their pants down here.  We are at almost a month and a half from patient zero in the US.   Hopefully, they've been working to procure essential medical equipment for our HCWs at the very least.

To be fair, the current administration has considerably limited the CDC’s ability to be proactive. Still, I believe their current recommendations are appropriate.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 10, 2020, 06:40:33 PM

I’ve spent most of the last two days discussing this. The problem is students going away for Spring Break combined with the two week maximum incubation period. That means students traveling over break can catch something and not present symptoms until after they return. And then the school would have to find ways to quarantine not only the sick student, but their roommates, classmates, etc.

This is why schools are being very cautious. I’m sure Marquette will follow. And I bet by the end of the NCAAs, games are played in front of no crowds. If they are played at all.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Goose on March 10, 2020, 06:42:31 PM

Gooo
Thank you for your posts. As we discussed years ago, you and my wife were at Medical College of Wisconsin at the same time. She has PhD in cellular biology, not MD. Again, appreciate your posts.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 10, 2020, 07:23:23 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 05:30:00 PM

Simple argument against testing: if you are in a demographic group where you will likely have symptoms like a minor flu, and work for a company that already gives paid sick leave, you will recover perfectly well and at lower cost by staying home and doing appropriate self-care.

Lower cost, same outcome. Is that straightforward enough?

Are you talking unlimited paid sick leave? I've got PTO, and I would have to use 5 days of that, and then I can get short term disability (a smaller % of my pay) with a dr's recommendation after that.  I suspect my benefits are better than most Americans, and I'd still need a Covid-19 test to get to your "lower cost" scenario.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 07:39:27 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 10, 2020, 07:23:23 PM

Are you talking unlimited paid sick leave? I've got PTO, and I would have to use 5 days of that, and then I can get short term disability (a smaller % of my pay) with a dr's recommendation after that.  I suspect my benefits are better than most Americans, and I'd still need a Covid-19 test to get to your "lower cost" scenario.

I don’t know how different companies’ benefits work, but yes.

One more argument against testing patients at low-risk for a severe outcome: getting a test might require you to go to a doctor’s office or clinic, or maybe even a hospital, where there may be lots of higher risk people (the elderly, and other people at the clinic or hospital for treatment of their high-risk conditions). So the very act of going to get tested might place high-risk populations at higher risk for exposure.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 10, 2020, 07:43:36 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 07:39:27 PM

I don’t know how different companies’ benefits work, but yes.

One more argument against testing patients at low-risk for a severe outcome: getting a test might require you to go to a doctor’s office or clinic, or maybe even a hospital, where there may be lots of higher risk people (the elderly, and other people at the clinic or hospital for treatment of their high-risk conditions). So the very act of going to get tested might place high-risk populations at higher risk for exposure.

South Korea figured this out.  They had tents, and drive up testing. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on March 10, 2020, 07:53:24 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 10, 2020, 05:51:26 PM

It's officially in Milwaukee now

https://www.tmj4.com/news/national/coronavirus/uw-milwaukee-extends-spring-break-prepares-to-suspend-in-person-classes-amid-coronavirus-concerns

Not officially. A person was tested, that's all they announced.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 10, 2020, 08:00:20 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 05:56:35 PM

I hate doing that; the fact that most here didn’t know about my degree shows that. But I can’t tolerate a know-it-all who claims to understand something like this better than the experts at CDC and WHO, and who talk down to anyone who doesn’t follow his lead...

  the fact that most here didn't know about your degree is a testament to your character GM.  you didn't pull the "doctor card" until you were absolutely forced to 8-) 8-)  thank you for your input!

   back to the topic at hand, i just listened to an interview with dr ben carson-a lot of excellent, level headed information.  the golden nugget was a study he cited from his school/hospital, johns hopkins, was that one can be a carrier of said virus for 5.1 days on average before exhibiting any signs/symptoms.  that is one of the main reasons we all should follow(always) safe hygiene practices.  he further stated if people realized the morbidity and the fatality rate of coronavirus vs influenza, people would be "running down the streets"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 08:01:19 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 10, 2020, 07:43:36 PM

South Korea figured this out.  They had tents, and drive up testing.

Yes, but the last I heard, it was only in one city (Seoul), and the total number of people tested was still relatively small compared to the total tested. (I may be wrong about part of that; just my recollection).

More importantly here in the US, it’s possible that the restrictions in public health funding by the current administration could prevent extensive drive-through testing on a nationwide basis. Maybe we couldn’t even do it with previous funding levels, as it would require facilities we don’t have, while clinics and hospitals are already there and equipped for testing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 10, 2020, 08:02:39 PM

Quote from: MUfan12 on March 10, 2020, 07:53:24 PM

Not officially. A person was tested, that's all they announced.

My bad that's what I get for not opening a link I get texted

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 10, 2020, 08:05:54 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 08:01:19 PM

More importantly here in the US, it’s possible that the restrictions in public health funding by the current administration could prevent extensive drive-through testing on a nationwide basis. Maybe we couldn’t even do it with previous funding levels, as it would require facilities we don’t have, while clinics and hospitals are already there and equipped for testing.

 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-news-coronavirus-test-hospitals-20200309-lb54zvss6var7j7p4bfnphg4fe-story.html%3foutputType=amp (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-news-coronavirus-test-hospitals-20200309-lb54zvss6var7j7p4bfnphg4fe-story.html%3foutputType=amp)

CT is at least thinking about it. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 08:12:05 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 10, 2020, 08:05:54 PM

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-news-coronavirus-test-hospitals-20200309-lb54zvss6var7j7p4bfnphg4fe-story.html%3foutputType=amp (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-news-coronavirus-test-hospitals-20200309-lb54zvss6var7j7p4bfnphg4fe-story.html%3foutputType=amp)

CT is at least thinking about it.

If this can be done and replicated on a widespread and cost-effective basis, it might change the recommendations for testing low-risk people with symptoms. Still though, even if it works in CT, it would require a big logistical step to make it a coordinated nationwide effort.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 10, 2020, 08:19:00 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 10, 2020, 08:05:54 PM

CT is at least thinking about it.

CO is doing it, but requires a Dr.s note (presumably that note can be emailed after a chat?)

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/national/coronavirus/colorado-governor-declares-state-of-emergency-to-increase-covid-19-testing-implement-paid-sick-leave

Quote

The state lab in Lowry will open a drive-up facility on Wednesday, Polis said, where people can go to be tested if they have a note from their doctor. And the governor said the state was preparing more safe-testing locations, including the prioritization of putting up a testing facility in the High Country to prevent the spread of the virus in mountain communities that have already seen multiple cases.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 10, 2020, 08:22:00 PM

Another point regarding testing...

Let's say you make this mandatory. Or suggest everyone do it. And everyone who tests positive has to be quarantined 2 weeks (minimum, I'm guessing).

As we know, not everyone has paid time off. Or sick leave, even. Or savings to cover day to day/monthly expenses.

Think those people are gonna show up for testing knowing they're going to risk their jobs or paychecks? Ya right

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 10, 2020, 08:27:25 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 10, 2020, 08:22:00 PM

Another point regarding testing...

Let's say you make this mandatory. Or suggest everyone do it. And everyone who tests positive has to be quarantined 2 weeks (minimum, I'm guessing).

As we know, not everyone has paid time off. Or sick leave, even. Or savings to cover day to day/monthly expenses.

Think those people are gonna show up for testing knowing they're going to risk their jobs or paychecks? Ya right

I think people want to do the right thing by nature.  If I were president, I would put all the stimulus on paying sick people to not leave their house.  Improving volunteering to testing and eventually a return to normal/confidence in being out in the world. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 10, 2020, 08:30:29 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 10, 2020, 08:22:00 PM

As we know, not everyone has paid time off. Or sick leave, even. Or savings to cover day to day/monthly expenses.

Think those people are gonna show up for testing knowing they're going to risk their jobs or paychecks? Ya right

I don't disagree, but it feels like digging for reasons not to test.  CO governor  pushing to required paid sick leave for certain industries (food, childcare, health care, education and hospitality industries )

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 08:33:32 PM

One other point about quickly setting up a drive-through system: when you quickly take a process out of its usual environment, you raise the risk for errors. We already know that samples occasionally get mishandled, contaminated or mislabeled in the normal clinic and hospital environment. It is quite possible that a hastily designed drive-through system would increase the error rate.

So there’s the cost, but also the quality challenge due to a quick change in logistics.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 10, 2020, 09:02:26 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 08:33:32 PM

One other point about quickly setting up a drive-through system: when you quickly take a process out of its usual environment, you raise the risk for errors. We already know that samples occasionally get mishandled, contaminated or mislabeled in the normal clinic and hospital environment. It is quite possible that a hastily designed drive-through system would increase the error rate.

So there’s the cost, but also the quality challenge due to a quick change in logistics.

I mean we're talking about collections here, not testing and results.  Just drive up, get swabbed, and you're out.  Samples get moved to a testing lab.  I don't see this being difficult.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on March 10, 2020, 09:23:26 PM

Iran is a nightmare...

https://www.foxnews.com/world/iran-coronavirus-dozens-die-bootleg-alcohol-poisoning

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 10, 2020, 09:25:58 PM

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 10, 2020, 09:23:26 PM

Iran is a nightmare...

I mean, I don't think COVID-19 moved the needle much there...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 09:29:36 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 10, 2020, 09:02:26 PM

I mean we're talking about collections here, not testing and results.  Just drive up, get swabbed, and you're out.  Samples get moved to a testing lab.  I don't see this being difficult.

Yes, but in the process of collecting and labeling samples, mistakes are made. In the normal clinic and hospital environments. Every day.

If you quickly move that process to a new environment, the rate of errors will almost certainly increase. How much is anyone’s guess.

It may or may not be a hard stop by itself, but in any case it’s a very real factor to consider while considering additional considerations like cost and such.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 10, 2020, 09:42:02 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 09:29:36 PM

It may or may not be a hard stop by itself, but in any case it’s a very real factor to consider while considering additional considerations like cost and such.

You've mentioned cost and the financial side a few times.  Thousands of dead would appear to be the bigger cost - both emotionally and financially - though may help SS and Medicaid/medicare #s.  Or perhaps you've already written them off (no hope).  Curious why else you seem to indicate cost and finances are a reason to not do testing.  You claim is it's cheaper not to test?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 10, 2020, 09:51:23 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 10, 2020, 05:21:53 PM

Explain China, South Korea, Japan, Singapore.

How did they get this under control?

The window narrows every day that we don't implement this sort of solution.  Should have been ramping up the moment that this left China's border.

What is your solution to deal with what is coming?  Let it happen?  Let all the people who are at risk, die?  Bad news, you're talking about letting hundreds of thousands of people die, probably more.  For starters, we have about one million hospital beds available in the US, and 65% of those are occupied with non-Covid19 patients.  Now we look at people with risk factors.  Obesity (99 mllion), kidney disease (30 million), COPD (16 million, low end)... I realize there is plenty of overlap in those numbers, but you get my point.  And no, I'm not saying they're all going to die.  But if we say 60% of the obese population contracts this, and we say only 5% die, we are still talking about just under 3 million people.  You're an engineer (presumably from your name), run the numbers.

What do you suggest?  I'm genuinely curious.

They went into full lock down, that approach can absolutely works(until rounds 2, 3, 4.... come around again). I'm extremely sceptical that we could execute such a plan in the US and that it's actually necessary.

We need to lower the infection curve but I don't think we need anything drastic to do that. Wash hands, if you feel unwell stay home, and if you are higher risk stay home as much as practical. We can

It is inevitable this virus will spread and it will kill, tragic but death is a part of life. I don't say this casually as my parents are high risk, my sons godfather is 42 and has Cystic fibrosis, and I have a 4 year old and a 9 month old. We aren't going to stop it and we aren't going to take mortality rate to zero. We try to limit the damage and slow the curve but given the current understanding of the virus it is no time to hit the panic button as some seem to advocate.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 09:54:57 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 10, 2020, 09:42:02 PM

You've mentioned cost and the financial side a few times.  Thousands of dead would appear to be the bigger cost - both emotionally and financially - though may help SS and Medicaid/medicare #s.  Or perhaps you've already written them off (no hope).  Curious why else you seem to indicate cost and finances are a reason to not do testing.  You claim is it's cheaper not to test?

If low-risk symptomatic people follow the CDC guidelines and self-quarantine, it won’t cause additional deaths. In fact, as I said above, keeping them away from clinics and hospitals full of higher-risk people might save lives.

And it would be cheaper.

Spending more money doesn’t always lead to a better outcome.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 10, 2020, 10:02:09 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 09:54:57 PM

If low-risk symptomatic people follow the CDC guidelines and self-quarantine, it won’t cause additional deaths. In fact, as I said above, keeping them away from clinics and hospitals full of higher-risk people might save lives.

Ah. I think I understand, and see the difference in our thinking - which isn't that far apart. 

I think most people will press on and do their jobs/go to social gatherings *while* being sick (or "not that sick" as they might determine) unless we make testing super easy and free.  It's the American way.  You don't let a simple fever or cough stop you from being successful!

You think higher of the US public than I do.  That's all.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 10:19:08 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 10, 2020, 10:02:09 PM

Ah. I think I understand, and see the difference in our thinking - which isn't that far apart. 

I think most people will press on and do their jobs/go to social gatherings *while* being sick (or "not that sick" as they might determine) unless we make testing super easy and free.  It's the American way.  You don't let a simple fever or cough stop you from being successful!

You think higher of the US public than I do.  That's all.

Perhaps I do. But if people won’t voluntarily self-quarantine, I don’t see huge numbers getting a test that might lead to a forced quarantine. Like you said:  the American way is not to let a fever and cough prevent people from doing whatever the hell they want to do.

Anyway, we can agree to disagree. But my position has been, and will likely continue to be, that people should follow the CDC recommendations.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 10, 2020, 10:30:08 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 10:19:08 PM

Anyway, we can agree to disagree.

But, we don't have to.  I think we 100% agree.

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 10:19:08 PM

people should follow the CDC recommendations.

100% agree.  That would help a bunch.

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 10:19:08 PM

I don’t see huge numbers getting a test that might lead to a forced quarantine.

100% agree.  Which is why we should eat as much Arbys as possible before they go bankrupt.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 10:34:45 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 10, 2020, 10:30:08 PM

100% agree.  Which is why we should eat as much Arbys as possible before they go bankrupt.

Just for my edification, what are the six steps from Arby’s to Kevin Bacon?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on March 10, 2020, 10:41:16 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 10, 2020, 10:02:09 PM

You think higher of the US public than I do.  That's all.

Well of course everyone is less high than you.  Literally. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 10, 2020, 11:08:27 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 08:33:32 PM

One other point about quickly setting up a drive-through system: when you quickly take a process out of its usual environment, you raise the risk for errors. We already know that samples occasionally get mishandled, contaminated or mislabeled in the normal clinic and hospital environment. It is quite possible that a hastily designed drive-through system would increase the error rate.

So there’s the cost, but also the quality challenge due to a quick change in logistics.

These are pretty simple experiments. Most biochemistry labs in the US can easily run these assays, and can do them with far higher accuracy and throughput than many of the official labs.

It would be no problem whatsoever to set up drive through testing, with high accuracy and higher throughput. The problem is the US has regulations on who can do clinical testing and who can report clinical results. That is the barrier, regulations, not any logistical issues or accuracy.

Also, these regular biochemistry labs could run these samples for on the order of around $15-20 a sample, not the over $2k that they are currently charging people

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 10, 2020, 11:15:51 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 10:34:45 PM

Just for my edification, what are the six steps from Arby’s to Kevin Bacon?

Only 2 steps required for Arbys.  Ving Rhames is the voice of Arbys, he was in Dave with Faith Prince who was in Picture Perfect with...well...you know who.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 11:16:02 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 10, 2020, 11:08:27 PM

These are pretty simple experiments. Most biochemistry labs in the US can easily run these assays, and can do them with far higher accuracy and throughput than many of the official labs.

It would be no problem whatsoever to set up drive through testing, with high accuracy and higher throughput. The problem is the US has regulations on who can do clinical testing and who can report clinical results. That is the barrier, regulations, not any logistical issues or accuracy.

You are right about the complexities at the interface between clinical and research testing (I have had head-scratching conversations with FDA about that exact topic)...but that isn’t what I’m talking about.

I’m talking about simple, straightforward purely clinical testing. Even in that relatively straightforward setting, errors are made in the handling and labeling of specimens. They aren’t frequent, but they happen. If you add new logistical processes to the mix, the error rate is bound to go up. So I disagree with your comment that there aren’t problems in terms of logistics or accurate reporting. There are.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 10, 2020, 11:34:14 PM

Hah, this is rich, now china can blame everyone else...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china/chinas-new-coronavirus-cases-rise-on-infections-from-abroad-idUSKBN20Y03W

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 10, 2020, 11:39:46 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 11:16:02 PM

You are right about the complexities at the interface between clinical and research testing (I have had head-scratching conversations with FDA about that exact topic)...but that isn’t what I’m talking about.

I’m talking about simple, straightforward purely clinical testing. Even in that relatively straightforward setting, errors are made in the handling and labeling of specimens. They aren’t frequent, but they happen. If you add new logistical processes to the mix, the error rate is bound to go up. So I disagree with your comment that there aren’t problems in terms of logistics or accurate reporting. There are.

The problems with handling labeling etc., are largely from many hands being involved in collecting, labeling, transporting, preparing, and then testing the samples.

The drive through, high-throughput system would limit that. It would have a person collecting samples, providing them to the person who prepares and tests on site. It would be vastly faster, and since it has fewer hands in the mix, would have far less errors.

We are doing this in the most moronic, cumbersome, and inefficient way nearly imaginable.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 11:43:49 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 10, 2020, 11:39:46 PM

The problems with handling labeling etc., are largely from many hands being involved in collecting, labeling, transporting, preparing, and then testing the samples.

The drive through, high-throughput system would limit that. It would have a person collecting samples, providing them to the person who prepares and tests on site. It would be vastly faster, and since it has fewer hands in the mix, would have far less errors.

We are doing this in the most moronic, cumbersome, and inefficient way nearly imaginable.

You are overstating the feasibility and simplicity of doing PCR-based testing in the field with a near-zero error rate. You will become a very rich man if you can actually bring that to pass.

Godspeed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 10, 2020, 11:48:07 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 11:43:49 PM

You are overstating the feasibility and simplicity of doing PCR-based testing in the field with a near-zero error rate. You will become a very rich man if you can actually bring that to pass.

Godspeed.

I do this. Including having worked on field-based PCR on a chip for rapid detection of pathogens at sea.

It's not complicated or difficult. In fact, there are multiple industries that intentionally do field-based studies to avoid errors, and problems due to transportation and samples changing hands.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 11, 2020, 12:05:45 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2020, 11:43:49 PM

You are overstating the feasibility and simplicity of doing PCR-based testing in the field with a near-zero error rate. You will become a very rich man if you can actually bring that to pass.

Godspeed.

So things are hard so we should not do them because we might make a mistake?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/drive-thru-coronavirus-testing-facility-us-seattle-washington/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 11, 2020, 12:08:01 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 10, 2020, 09:51:23 PM

They went into full lock down, that approach can absolutely works(until rounds 2, 3, 4.... come around again). I'm extremely sceptical that we could execute such a plan in the US and that it's actually necessary.

We need to lower the infection curve but I don't think we need anything drastic to do that. Wash hands, if you feel unwell stay home, and if you are higher risk stay home as much as practical. We can

It is inevitable this virus will spread and it will kill, tragic but death is a part of life. I don't say this casually as my parents are high risk, my sons godfather is 42 and has Cystic fibrosis, and I have a 4 year old and a 9 month old. We aren't going to stop it and we aren't going to take mortality rate to zero. We try to limit the damage and slow the curve but given the current understanding of the virus it is no time to hit the panic button as some seem to advocate.

China went into lockdown.  South Korea did not.  I don't remember hearing Tokyo or anything about Japan reaching a total lockdown.  Though, to be fair, we haven't heard much out of Japan in a while anyway.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 11, 2020, 12:13:13 AM

Quote from: forgetful on March 10, 2020, 11:48:07 PM

I do this quit regularly.

The in-lab part, or the logistical part of setting up large-scale systems for accurate collection, handling, labeling, transporting and reporting of results? Two very different animals, and in my experience the in-lab people routinely underestimate the complexity and potential error rates in the latter.

If you have a solution beyond the in-lab part, then by all means go ahead and show the rest of the medical community how it’s done easily, on-site and with a low error rate.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 11, 2020, 12:15:59 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 11, 2020, 12:05:45 AM

So things are hard so we should not do them because we might make a mistake?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/drive-thru-coronavirus-testing-facility-us-seattle-washington/

There’s a huge difference between a few facilities where there’s already a huge problem vs thousands of facilities in an enormous country. And that’s in terms of costs, compliance and error rates.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 11, 2020, 12:28:56 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 11, 2020, 12:13:13 AM

The in-lab part, or the logistical part of setting up large-scale systems for accurate collection, handling, labeling, transporting and reporting of results? Two very different animals, and in my experience the in-lab people routinely underestimate the complexity and potential error rates in the latter.

If you have a solution beyond the in-lab part, then by all means go ahead and show the rest of the medical community how it’s done easily, on-site and with a low error rate.

Quite frankly, the medical community does not want things to change. They profit dramatically from the red-tape and hurdles.

Also, the MD's greatly overestimate the complexity of routine tests and the logistics of handling large numbers of samples and large sets of data. This in part stems from medical testing facilities often hiring poorly skilled technicians that don't care about their job.

There is no reason that even a small facility couldn't be running 5-10k tests a day. At that scale you could run these for $2 a sample, including labor for a highly skilled PhD level research technicians.

We haven't ran 10k tests nationwide yet.

We are going to have to agree to disagree on the feasibility of large scale testing and drive through facilities.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 11, 2020, 12:38:32 AM

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/10/us/coronavirus-testing-delays.html#click=https://t.co/mlEjBJl96Q

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 11, 2020, 12:48:34 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 11, 2020, 12:38:32 AM

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/10/us/coronavirus-testing-delays.html#click=https://t.co/mlEjBJl96Q

Her lab probably tested close to as many samples as the rest of the nation, up until this week. Great story.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 11, 2020, 06:31:43 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 11, 2020, 12:38:32 AM

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/10/us/coronavirus-testing-delays.html#click=https://t.co/mlEjBJl96Q

That is a great story about what I agree was a big miss. Notably, it occurred where many lab-related regulatory blunders occur: the interface between research and clinical labs.

Regrettable.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on March 11, 2020, 07:03:28 AM

Uwm will be extending their spring break another week. Marquette will probably follow by tomorrow.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Let's Go Warriors on March 11, 2020, 07:19:45 AM

There is almost 0 possibility that there are no cases in Milwaukee right now.  Its just a matter of getting the people tested at this point.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Spaniel with a Short Tail on March 11, 2020, 07:51:46 AM

In 1 hour, our flight to NYC and the BET will depart without us on it. Too much concern over being quarantined in NYC for 14 days because we came in contact with someone who tested positive. Much less concern over actually contracting covid (we're close to the at risk age group). I must say that AA and Hilton were very understanding and we didn't really lose much for our last minute decision.

Thanks to everyone for their contributions to this thread (despite the usual Scoop sidetracking).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 11, 2020, 08:01:42 AM

One note, I want to say I'm ambivalent on the wide spread testing as I'm not sure how much positive it actually does but if the scientists/doctors say we should do more I'm all for it. However, we have to get better about reporting on test results. It's a true or false result but almost more important is if true, where on the incubation spectrum are you, etc. Reports are breathless with "11 more cases today, or 6 more positive tests today", etc. This portrayal of infections just popping up out of nowhere is adding to a lot of unnecessary panic

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 11, 2020, 08:04:38 AM

This is how the Coronavirus spread among 70 people at the Biogen conference in Boston.

https://twitter.com/BostonGlobe/status/1237710962326732800?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 11, 2020, 08:15:24 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 10, 2020, 05:52:56 PM

All Indiana University campuses are on-line only classes till April

My kid is home on spring break from Xavier now and got the note that classes are online until April 14 after Easter break.  They can go back to the dorms after spring break but was highly recommended they stay home.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on March 11, 2020, 08:17:42 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 11, 2020, 08:04:38 AM

This is how the Coronavirus spread among 70 people at the Biogen conference in Boston.

https://twitter.com/BostonGlobe/status/1237710962326732800?s=19

Somehow I must have missed this previously, but after reading this article - it would seem pretty clear that covid-19 can spread from a person not currently exhibiting symptoms, yes?  Its hard to believe that all of the people that got sick at that conference caught the virus from someone exhibiting symptoms.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 11, 2020, 08:18:22 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 11, 2020, 08:04:38 AM

This is how the Coronavirus spread among 70 people at the Biogen conference in Boston.

https://twitter.com/BostonGlobe/status/1237710962326732800?s=19

That's an interesting article. 

This seems to spread easier than 'flu' from an uneducated eye.  Has there been any research put out yet on this?  Is it just that more people are inoculated to flu and it has a harder time spreading?

edit: i guess this article kind of answers my question.  https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/09/people-shed-high-levels-of-coronavirus-study-finds-but-most-are-likely-not-infectious-after-recovery-begins/ (https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/09/people-shed-high-levels-of-coronavirus-study-finds-but-most-are-likely-not-infectious-after-recovery-begins/)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on March 11, 2020, 08:21:18 AM

And......Georgetown moves to "virtual learning" until further notice.


"We are moving all class room instruction for all of our schools to virtual learning environments. Beginning Monday, March 16th, we are suspending all in-person, face-to-face, on-campus classroom instruction. This will continue until further notice...We strongly encourage all undergraduate students to return to their permanent addresses while this virtual learning environment is in place. Students should avoid returning to campus if possible or return to campus briefly to gather necessary items for the completion of academic work before departing to their permanent addresses. We understand that for some number of students there will be a compelling reason to remain on campus. Campus will be open and key services will be available."


They're all falling like dominoes now. Marquette won't be far behind. I'm sure the pressure is immense. Nobody wants to be accused of not doing enough...especially when everyone else is acting.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 11, 2020, 08:25:28 AM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 11, 2020, 08:21:18 AM

And......Georgetown moves to "virtual learning" until further notice.


"We are moving all class room instruction for all of our schools to virtual learning environments. Beginning Monday, March 16th, we are suspending all in-person, face-to-face, on-campus classroom instruction. This will continue until further notice...We strongly encourage all undergraduate students to return to their permanent addresses while this virtual learning environment is in place. Students should avoid returning to campus if possible or return to campus briefly to gather necessary items for the completion of academic work before departing to their permanent addresses. We understand that for some number of students there will be a compelling reason to remain on campus. Campus will be open and key services will be available."


They're all falling like dominoes now. Marquette won't be far behind. I'm sure the pressure is immense. Nobody wants to be accused of not doing enough...especially when everyone else is acting.

It's not only that, but once you realize your responsibilities to the community should someone become sick, it becomes very hard for a campus to manage the problem with thousands of students on site.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 11, 2020, 08:41:03 AM

I do not really get what a complete lockdown will do besides put off the inevitable? People are going to get covid19 that is a fact.  So if I hide in my house for 6 weeks it will still be around when I come back out unless the entire world goes into lockdown. Those that are high risk should get moved to the front of the line for treatment.  I think of my parents and my father in law.  How on earth can they avoid it?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 11, 2020, 08:52:03 AM

Quote from: injuryBug on March 11, 2020, 08:41:03 AM

I do not really get what a complete lockdown will do besides put off the inevitable? People are going to get covid19 that is a fact.  So if I hide in my house for 6 weeks it will still be around when I come back out unless the entire world goes into lockdown. Those that are high risk should get moved to the front of the line for treatment.  I think of my parents and my father in law.  How on earth can they avoid it?

Lockdowns prevent community spread.  The slow down the rate at which people become infected.  That is key to not having our healthcare system overwhelmed.  If it becomes overwhelmed, we get to make the hard decisions that Italy is currently facing, and that China most certainly faced.  When there is only so much medical equipment, beds, and staff who lives and who dies becomes a decision that no one wants to make.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on March 11, 2020, 08:55:46 AM

Quote from: injuryBug on March 11, 2020, 08:41:03 AM

I do not really get what a complete lockdown will do besides put off the inevitable? People are going to get covid19 that is a fact.  So if I hide in my house for 6 weeks it will still be around when I come back out unless the entire world goes into lockdown. Those that are high risk should get moved to the front of the line for treatment.  I think of my parents and my father in law.  How on earth can they avoid it?

https://twitter.com/JeremyKonyndyk/status/1237609912412196865 (https://twitter.com/JeremyKonyndyk/status/1237609912412196865)

"The core objective... is slowing spread enough to buy time for hospitals to stay on top of critical cases.  Need a multi-track strategy to suppress outbreak while expanding clinical bandwith to treat.  That's the ballgame."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 11, 2020, 08:58:14 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 11, 2020, 08:52:03 AM

Lockdowns prevent community spread.  The slow down the rate at which people become infected.  That is key to not having our healthcare system overwhelmed.  If it becomes overwhelmed, we get to make the hard decisions that Italy is currently facing, and that China most certainly faced.  When there is only so much medical equipment, beds, and staff who lives and who dies becomes a decision that no one wants to make.

It worked in China, where infections have almost ceased. They may have beaten it, not just slowed it.

It'll be interesting if it pops back up there, and/or if other countries can replicate that type of authoritarian restrictions.

If other countries can replicate it, this can be beaten without millions of infections.

But if it keeps popping back up, and some point one has to ask, how long can we quarantine entire countries, and at what cost?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on March 11, 2020, 09:10:36 AM

Quote from: forgetful on March 11, 2020, 08:58:14 AM

But if it keeps popping back up, and some point one has to ask, how long can we quarantine entire countries, and at what cost?

I think the goal here would be get to summer, when infection rates for this type of thing naturally slow, and hopefully use that time to bolster our healthcare capacity to adjust to a new, covid-19 reality.  But I'm sure others are much more knowledgeable about this endgame than me.

We've been peppering this thread with potential "new post covid-19 panic" implications, and maybe here's another one - an increase in medical care capacity that honestly was probably increasingly necessary as the boomers aged anyway.  If we boost our medical care infrastructure in a way that sticks, and we adjust to the boomers' health care needs by increasing supply more, and just trying to manage demand less, that's probably a silver lining from this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 11, 2020, 09:10:47 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 10, 2020, 09:51:23 PM

It is inevitable this virus will spread and it will kill, tragic but death is a part of life. I don't say this casually as my parents are high risk, my sons godfather is 42 and has Cystic fibrosis, and I have a 4 year old and a 9 month old. We aren't going to stop it and we aren't going to take mortality rate to zero. We try to limit the damage and slow the curve but given the current understanding of the virus it is no time to hit the panic button as some seem to advocate.

I have a 2 month old. Silver lining is that right now all signs point to our kids being very low risk.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 11, 2020, 09:19:11 AM

Also, no one is seriously suggesting a lock down. 

Limit your travel and large group events.  But go to work.  Go to the store.  Go out to eat. 

And I know that eliminating travel and events isn't always possible, and that's OK.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 11, 2020, 09:31:26 AM

Quote from: MUBurrow on March 11, 2020, 09:10:36 AM

I think the goal here would be get to summer, when infection rates for this type of thing naturally slow, and hopefully use that time to bolster our healthcare capacity to adjust to a new, covid-19 reality.  But I'm sure others are much more knowledgeable about this endgame than me.

We've been peppering this thread with potential "new post covid-19 panic" implications, and maybe here's another one - an increase in medical care capacity that honestly was probably increasingly necessary as the boomers aged anyway.  If we boost our medical care infrastructure in a way that sticks, and we adjust to the boomers' health care needs by increasing supply more, and just trying to manage demand less, that's probably a silver lining from this.

There isn't any evidence warmer temperatures and higher humidity have an impact on this virus.  Plenty of warm, humid places faced this head on.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Eldon on March 11, 2020, 09:40:00 AM

Quote from: forgetful on March 11, 2020, 12:28:56 AM

Quite frankly, the medical community does not want things to change. They profit dramatically from the red-tape and hurdles.

Also, the MD's greatly overestimate the complexity of routine tests and the logistics of handling large numbers of samples and large sets of data. This in part stems from medical testing facilities often hiring poorly skilled technicians that don't care about their job.

There is no reason that even a small facility couldn't be running 5-10k tests a day. At that scale you could run these for $2 a sample, including labor for a highly skilled PhD level research technicians.

We haven't ran 10k tests nationwide yet.

We are going to have to agree to disagree on the feasibility of large scale testing and drive through facilities.

Just curious: where did you get your MD or MPH?

I'm kidding/making a point.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 11, 2020, 09:42:33 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 11, 2020, 08:52:03 AM

Lockdowns prevent community spread.  The slow down the rate at which people become infected.  That is key to not having our healthcare system overwhelmed.  If it becomes overwhelmed, we get to make the hard decisions that Italy is currently facing, and that China most certainly faced.  When there is only so much medical equipment, beds, and staff who lives and who dies becomes a decision that no one wants to make.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/11/science/coronavirus-curve-mitigation-infection.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on March 11, 2020, 09:44:34 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 11, 2020, 09:31:26 AM

There isn't any evidence warmer temperatures and higher humidity have an impact on this virus.  Plenty of warm, humid places faced this head on.

It's not temp/humidity, it's the communal behavior... people are mostly indoors during the winter months and thus, person-to-person contact increases significantly.  Climate is not as much of a factor in places like China and Italy where person-to-person contact is elevated all of the time.

In other words, as population density rises, climate's effect on person-to-person contact diminishes.  So summer isn't going to help NYC, NJ, SF, etc., but it may slow things down in flyover country.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 11, 2020, 09:48:54 AM

Chicago just cancelled the downtown, south side and northwest side st Patrick's day parades.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 11, 2020, 09:55:19 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 11, 2020, 09:31:26 AM

There isn't any evidence warmer temperatures and higher humidity have an impact on this virus.  Plenty of warm, humid places faced this head on.

Yep.  They've tested the virus .. it can exist on surfaces for 3 days at 98 degrees F.   

That's a lot of days.  Warm temps will help move people outside rather than inside, but .. it's not a magic bullet.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 11, 2020, 09:57:26 AM

Quote from: Eldon on March 11, 2020, 09:40:00 AM

Just curious: where did you get your MD or MPH?

I'm kidding/making a point.

Which is?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Bocephys on March 11, 2020, 10:13:28 AM

Quote from: Benny B on March 11, 2020, 09:44:34 AM

It's not temp/humidity, it's the communal behavior... people are mostly indoors during the winter months and thus, person-to-person contact increases significantly.  Climate is not as much of a factor in places like China and Italy where person-to-person contact is elevated all of the time.

In other words, as population density rises, climate's effect on person-to-person contact diminishes.  So summer isn't going to help NYC, NJ, SF, etc., but it may slow things down in flyover country.

Shouldn't India's totals be much higher then?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Eldon on March 11, 2020, 10:24:15 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 11, 2020, 09:57:26 AM

Which is?

That you don't need an advanced degree to criticize experts like doctors and the CDC.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warrior2008 on March 11, 2020, 10:25:19 AM

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/11/top-federal-health-official-says-coronavirus-outbreak-is-going-to-get-worse-in-the-us.html

We're passed a point of containment and into mitigation to flatten the curve so to speak.  Government enforced quarantine's will become more common and widespread.  A significant portion of schools, if not most, will be excused.  An expansion of the air travel ban to infected areas(areas of Europe not already included) will most certainly happen. 

Its possible this was unavoidable in a free society, but not having adequate testing available when this popped up removed any doubt about being able to respond to this via a containment strategy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 11, 2020, 10:39:33 AM

Quote from: Eldon on March 11, 2020, 10:24:15 AM

That you don't need an advanced degree to criticize experts like doctors and the CDC.

word.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on March 11, 2020, 10:56:40 AM

Quote from: Bocephys on March 11, 2020, 10:13:28 AM

Shouldn't India's totals be much higher then?

Climate's effect is not a correlation; it's a catalyst (or whatever the opposite of a catalyst is).  However, density can be both a correlation and a catalyst... so in the case of India, they might be more susceptible to spread, but the absolute number of cases depends on how deeply the country was "inoculated" to begin with, i.e. how many Indians were exposed, where are they in the country, with how many people did they have contact before diagnosis, etc. 

For example, if you have 5 people who returned to the US from Wuhan and tested positive two weeks later, there's a huge difference between a scenario where all five of these people have been roaming around Cheyenne, WY for the past two weeks as opposed to a scenario where one is roaming NYC, one is roaming LA, one in Houston, one in Atlanta and one in Chicago.


We also have to take into account that all numbers are being underreported to varying degrees, especially if people exhibit mild symptoms or self-treat (and aren't counted).  So if - hypothetically - there was a cultural tendency to not seek care in the areas of India where the virus is widespread, the actual cases may be 5x, 10x, 50x what is being reported currently.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 11, 2020, 11:14:31 AM

Quote from: forgetful on March 11, 2020, 12:28:56 AM

Quite frankly, the medical community does not want things to change. They profit dramatically from the red-tape and hurdles.

Also, the MD's greatly overestimate the complexity of routine tests and the logistics of handling large numbers of samples and large sets of data. This in part stems from medical testing facilities often hiring poorly skilled technicians that don't care about their job.

There is no reason that even a small facility couldn't be running 5-10k tests a day. At that scale you could run these for $2 a sample, including labor for a highly skilled PhD level research technicians.

We haven't ran 10k tests nationwide yet.

We are going to have to agree to disagree on the feasibility of large scale testing and drive through facilities.

Ya, we providers LOVE the red tape and hoops we have to jump through to get things approved.  ::)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 11, 2020, 11:15:10 AM

Quote from: MUBurrow on March 11, 2020, 09:10:36 AM

I think the goal here would be get to summer, when infection rates for this type of thing naturally slow, and hopefully use that time to bolster our healthcare capacity to adjust to a new, covid-19 reality.  But I'm sure others are much more knowledgeable about this endgame than me.

We've been peppering this thread with potential "new post covid-19 panic" implications, and maybe here's another one - an increase in medical care capacity that honestly was probably increasingly necessary as the boomers aged anyway.  If we boost our medical care infrastructure in a way that sticks, and we adjust to the boomers' health care needs by increasing supply more, and just trying to manage demand less, that's probably a silver lining from this.

And how are you going to pay for that?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on March 11, 2020, 11:45:04 AM

Along the lines of other posts wondering about the lasting social/cultural impact of this, I find myself wondering if there will be significant changes in the use and/or acceptance of "virtual learning environments." Obviously, a lot of schools have been increasingly heading that direction, and this certainly accelerates that process. I wonder if this will lead to more wide-spread use even in the normal course of affairs as people become more accustomed to it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: RushmoreAcademy on March 11, 2020, 11:53:03 AM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 11, 2020, 11:45:04 AM

Along the lines of other posts wondering about the lasting social/cultural impact of this, I find myself wondering if there will be significant changes in the use and/or acceptance of "virtual learning environments." Obviously, a lot of schools have been increasingly heading that direction, and this certainly accelerates that process. I wonder if this will lead to more wide-spread use even in the normal course of affairs as people become more accustomed to it.

Certainly at the university level.  Anything below that is a long, long way off.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 11, 2020, 12:01:22 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 11, 2020, 09:48:54 AM

Chicago just cancelled the downtown, south side and northwest side st Patrick's day parades.

Connecticut postponed or cancelled all St. Patrick's Day parades two days ago.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 11, 2020, 12:02:48 PM

Quote from: Bocephys on March 11, 2020, 10:13:28 AM

Shouldn't India's totals be much higher then?

I've been wondering about this too?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 11, 2020, 12:05:05 PM

Quote from: Warrior2008 on March 11, 2020, 10:25:19 AM

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/11/top-federal-health-official-says-coronavirus-outbreak-is-going-to-get-worse-in-the-us.html

We're passed a point of containment and into mitigation to flatten the curve so to speak.  Government enforced quarantine's will become more common and widespread.  A significant portion of schools, if not most, will be excused.  An expansion of the air travel ban to infected areas(areas of Europe not already included) will most certainly happen. 

Its possible this was unavoidable in a free society, but not having adequate testing available when this popped up removed any doubt about being able to respond to this via a containment strategy.

10x more lethal than flu. Additionally, permanent lung damage seen in severe cases even where they recover. So...not good, and not comparable to the flu really.  Take care of yourselves, folks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on March 11, 2020, 12:12:50 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 11, 2020, 11:14:31 AM

Ya, we providers LOVE the red tape and hoops we have to jump through to get things approved.  ::)

As an actual provider, of course not.  But I'm sure your c-suite absolutely does... it's a huge barrier to entry.

It's like how all the big banks publicly complained about Dodd-Frank while privately congratulating themselves knowing full well that the gov't all but eliminated the threat of new competition, thus paving the way to consolidation and record profits.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ChuckyChip on March 11, 2020, 12:15:04 PM

UW-Madison going online until at least April 10th.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 11, 2020, 12:46:37 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 11, 2020, 11:14:31 AM

Ya, we providers LOVE the red tape and hoops we have to jump through to get things approved.  ::)

For clarification sake, my statement there was not directed at your average provider. More so the medical testing, diagnostics, and Pharma communities that profit greatly from a monopoly on testing, and a high barrier of entry.

Shady providers in some disciplines, also do not want change, they profit greatly from kickbacks from testing labs. This was rampant in the pain management discipline for awhile. I do not believe this is widely spread in the provider market though, most as you note, hate the red tape.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 11, 2020, 12:46:58 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 11, 2020, 12:05:05 PM

10x more lethal than flu. Additionally, permanent lung damage seen in severe cases even where they recover. So...not good, and not comparable to the flu really.  Take care of yourselves, folks.

This is an example of why data fluency is missing in most modern communication. Covid-19 is not definitely 10x more deadly than the flu. It could be but we don't have nearly enough underlying data to know. The numerator(# of deaths) is known but the denominator(# of infected) unknown/under reported. There are lots of indicators that people are contracting the virus and recovering without testing and/or medical intervention.

Look at it this way, there have been ~4000 deaths in ~a month(being very conservative) so at that rate the annual mortality is about 48,000 year whereas flu killed 80,000 last year(to be fair the average is around 60,000 annually). When you factor in this is a new virus in which we need to develop standard interventions and procedures, I have no doubt that covid-19 will kill more(probably a lot more) than the flu but we are reacting as if this is some sort of super bug or cataclysmic event. Maybe it will be but there is definitely not enough evidence to point that way yet. With sometime we will develop standard interventions that will lower the mortality rate. #TrustTheProcess

Bottom line, slow the infection curve and generally speaking if you get the virus you'll be fine, make sure to keep it to yourself if you can.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 11, 2020, 12:52:58 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 11, 2020, 12:46:58 PM

This is an example of why data fluency is missing in most modern communication. Covid-19 is not definitely 10x more deadly than the flu. It could be but we don't have nearly enough underlying data to know. The numerator(# of deaths) is known but the denominator(# of infected) unknown/under reported. There are lots of indicators that people are contracting the virus and recovering without testing and/or medical intervention.

Eng, I hear you on purity of data, etc. 

This wasn't some guy on social though.  He is the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and is leading much of the communication for the government.  Long-time bureaucrat across multiple administrations.  He is trying to get folks to do something and making a point that people need to take this seriously.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on March 11, 2020, 01:11:13 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 11, 2020, 12:01:22 PM

Connecticut postponed or cancelled all St. Patrick's Day parades two days ago.

Great idea.  Let's have everyone spend the entire day in completely packed bars instead.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on March 11, 2020, 01:11:49 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 11, 2020, 12:46:58 PM

This is an example of why data fluency is missing in most modern communication. Covid-19 is not definitely 10x more deadly than the flu. It could be but we don't have nearly enough underlying data to know. The numerator(# of deaths) is known but the denominator(# of infected) unknown/under reported. There are lots of indicators that people are contracting the virus and recovering without testing and/or medical intervention.

Look at it this way, there have been ~4000 deaths in ~a month(being very conservative) so at that rate the annual mortality is about 48,000 year whereas flu killed 80,000 last year(to be fair the average is around 60,000 annually). When you factor in this is a new virus in which we need to develop standard interventions and procedures, I have no doubt that covid-19 will kill more(probably a lot more) than the flu but we are reacting as if this is some sort of super bug or cataclysmic event. Maybe it will be but there is definitely not enough evidence to point that way yet. With sometime we will develop standard interventions that will lower the mortality rate. #TrustTheProcess

Bottom line, slow the infection curve and generally speaking if you get the virus you'll be fine, make sure to keep it to yourself if you can.

I've used the flu comparisons in the past, and I do now appreciate much more how COVID-19 is quite different from the flu in many ways. I understand why some people want to point out that it's an apples to oranges comparison and I agree that in some ways they are absolutely right. However, one of the first arguments many of them make is by comparing the mortality rates.  And, as others have been pointing out, the dearth of data creates some issues. When calculating the death rate for the flu, they model the number of people that they believe had the flu to calculate the rate. They do this because many people don't get tested/confirmed. Obviously, this lowers the death rate considerably from what it would be if they only used confirmed cases. Yet with COVID-19, most data seems to be calculating the death rate using confirmed cases. On the one hand, people are saying, "it's far more widespread than anyone realizes...there aren't enough tests" (note: I'm not disagreeing with either of those propositions), but on the other hand, they're calculating the death rate on the confirmed cases. This raises the rate.

I'm not intending to minimize this. I've come to agree that it is very serious and should be regarded as such. I also agree that it is more lethal than the flu. But it's pretty clear that both "sides" are trying to make their cases based upon pretty incomplete and flawed data.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warrior2008 on March 11, 2020, 01:15:11 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 11, 2020, 12:46:58 PM

This is an example of why data fluency is missing in most modern communication. Covid-19 is not definitely 10x more deadly than the flu. It could be but we don't have nearly enough underlying data to know. The numerator(# of deaths) is known but the denominator(# of infected) unknown/under reported. There are lots of indicators that people are contracting the virus and recovering without testing and/or medical intervention.

Look at it this way, there have been ~4000 deaths in ~a month(being very conservative) so at that rate the annual mortality is about 48,000 year whereas flu killed 80,000 last year(to be fair the average is around 60,000 annually). When you factor in this is a new virus in which we need to develop standard interventions and procedures, I have no doubt that covid-19 will kill more(probably a lot more) than the flu but we are reacting as if this is some sort of super bug or cataclysmic event. Maybe it will be but there is definitely not enough evidence to point that way yet. With sometime we will develop standard interventions that will lower the mortality rate. #TrustTheProcess

Bottom line, slow the infection curve and generally speaking if you get the virus you'll be fine, make sure to keep it to yourself if you can.

I think we can both agree that the data regarding the annual flu isn't exact science either.  The CDC estimates the number of Americans who contract the flu and they also estimate the number of flu hospitalizations and deaths.  What Dr. Fauci was estimating was the relative danger between covid-19 and the flu based on his clinical judgment using the data that is known(confirmed covid-19 deaths).  And given that he is the foremost opinion in this country regarding infectious diseases, if he says its 10x more deadly than the flu, at the very least you have to respect his judgment.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 11, 2020, 01:26:41 PM

Quote from: ChuckyChip on March 11, 2020, 12:15:04 PM

UW-Madison going online until at least April 10th.

UW-Madison, the University of Phoenix of the Midwest

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 11, 2020, 01:29:14 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on March 11, 2020, 01:11:13 PM

Great idea.  Let's have everyone spend the entire day in completely packed bars instead.

Chick,
Funny you say that.  New Haven Register front page today says that the downtown bars will continue to hold their St. Patrick's Day Parade specials despite no parade.

---

St. Patrick’s Day parade is off, but parties are on
Drum corps depend on events for revenue
By Ed Stannard

Arnold Gold / Hearst Connecticut Media
A leprechaun in a pot of gold was painted on the front window of Shake Shack on Chapel Street in New Haven on Tuesday. The New Haven St. Patrick’s Day Parade, which would have traveled past this location, has been postponed.

Pat Williams, general manager of Elm City Social, at the restaurant on College Street. The restaurant plans St. Patrick’s Day celebrations, but the parade was postponed.

NEW HAVEN — The Stony Creek Fife & Drum Corps won’t be marching down Chapel Street on Sunday playing “You’re a Grand Old Flag,” but you can still get corned beef poutine at Rudy’s.

The indefinite postponement of the Greater New Haven St. Patrick’s Day parade, out of concern that COVID-19, or corona-virus, may be spread among the thousands lining the parade route, won’t stop the bars and restaurants from offering their versions of Irish-American fare.

At Rudy’s on Chapel and Howe streets that includes gravy fries covered with melted cheese and corned beef. Put corned beef on anything to make it a certifiable American St. Patrick’s Day meal.

“We’re going to stay open. We feel like it’s still going to be a fun day,” said Lange King, a bartender at Rudy’s, who said the beer will begin to flow at 10 a.m. Sunday, with food available at 10:30. There will be giveaways and T-shirts, too.

“It seems like people are still excited to be out and about,” King said, though she expects the bar crowd to be more family-oriented than it might have been with the parade in full swing.

This is America, where, if poutine isn’t your thing, Rudy’s will offer corned beef reuben quesadillas and corned beef hash tacos, mashing flavors and cultures.

At Elm City Social on College Street, just off Chapel, the holiday began on Monday, with their Pub Up. General manager Pat Williams said the bar will become an Irish pub until the big day itself, with Irish whiskey tastings and a class in “how to pour a proper pint” of Guinness stout.

“It’s obviously disappointing; it’s a big day for us, but obviously public health is more important than the festivities,” Williams said about the lack of a parade. “We’re not really concerned. The people that are going out for drinks are still coming out to the bars.”

Irish breakfast is being served all day, as are corned beef sliders. On Monday, Williams will borrow Liam Doherty-Nicholson of the Trinity Bar & Restaurant on Orange Street to be guest bartender.

While the bars are hoping to attract would-be parade-goers, the musical groups that count on parades to raise money can only hope New Haven’s parade will be rescheduled for a free day on their schedule.

“We’re a not-for-profit and the parade moneys go into our treasury, so we’ll have to make it up in some fashion,” said Joe Mooney of the Stony Creek Fife & Drum Corps in Branford.

“While it’s unfortunate, as we were looking forward to that great parade … we appreciate their concern and respect what their decision is,” he said. “I’ve been marching in that parade since I was a youngster in the early ’60s,” he said.

Mooney wouldn’t say how much the parade committee pays for the group to march, but the coronavirus definitely will hurt. “The Hartford parade is canceled, and Holyoke is uncertain,” Mooney said. The Milford parade organizers have yet to say whether that city’s parade will take place Saturday.

“We probably march 25 to 30 times a year,” he said.

Dave Bradley of Oxford, director of the Seymour-based Connecticut Alumni Drum and Bugle Corps, said there are no membership fees to join the unit, so “all the revenues we take off the street” pays for instructors, uniforms and instruments. But he said losing one date won’t hurt the group too much.

He said once the parade date is rescheduled, “if we’re available, we can march. The only other thing we run into is if we’re under contract with somebody else.”

Peter Burns of Milford, who said he marched in the first St. Patrick’s Day parade of modern times, which marched down Whalley Avenue in 1956, has been a judge for about 35 years.

“I’ve always been involved. I haven’t missed a parade,” he said.

“I feel terrible for the parade committee,” Burns said. “They work so hard, plus they look forward to this … and they do a wonderful job. And then to have the rug pulled out from them, it’s heartbreaking.”

Grand Marshal Seamus Bohan, like grand marshals before him, including his late father, Michael Bohan, worked his way up through the ranks of the committee, and now must wait to see when the parade will be rescheduled. Bohan said Tuesday he was disappointed the parade would be rescheduled but declined to say more.

Burns said he and fellow judge Bill Brennan look for uniformity, musical talent and proper respect for the American flag as the units pass by the judging stand.

“During that 30-yard pass-by you have to look like you’re in a parade, not waving to your friends at a football game, waving to the crowd,” he said. While both the American and Irish flags must be treated with respect, “the American flag is always to the right. There’s nothing to the right of it, and there’s always a weapon to protect it,” he said. That “weapon” can be a sidearm, rifle, saber or even a fire horn, Burns said.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 11, 2020, 01:32:57 PM

Another parade tie-in thing.  I saw this graph from 1918 Spanish flu cases where St. Louis cancelled a parade and Philadelphia didn't.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 11, 2020, 01:35:59 PM

I am in no way questioning the experts and I have no reason to doubt Dr Fauci but we also need to understand both the source of that reference(in terms of possible accuracy) and intent of using that number. This is literally a scare number(10x) it is meant to drive a call to action and get people to pay attention as opposed to using the "real" number of 1% mortality rate. 1% sounds small and in the grand scheme of virology it is small but that doesn't drive action. So people are going to cling to 10x but context is important

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 11, 2020, 01:36:38 PM

sorry, dupe post

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 11, 2020, 01:37:49 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 11, 2020, 12:52:58 PM

Eng, I hear you on purity of data, etc. 

This wasn't some guy on social though.  He is the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and is leading much of the communication for the government.  Long-time bureaucrat across multiple administrations.  He is trying to get folks to do something and making a point that people need to take this seriously.

Exactly, this was not me looking at the data and not knowing how to properly interpret it, this was the expert on infectious diseases.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 11, 2020, 01:42:05 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 11, 2020, 01:35:59 PM

I am in no way questioning the experts and I have no reason to doubt Dr Fauci but we also need to understand both the source of that reference(in terms of possible accuracy) and intent of using that number. This is literally a scare number(10x) it is meant to drive a call to action and get people to pay attention as opposed to using the "real" number of 1% mortality rate. 1% sounds small and in the grand scheme of virology it is small but that doesn't drive action. So people are going to cling to 10x but context is important

Yes, but he is an expert, understands what he was saying and still chose to say it.  That says something to me.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 11, 2020, 01:55:14 PM

i've got an interesting situation that would probably not even be considered if not for our pandemic

  my wife is in the end stages of breast cancer treatment.  everything is going great! small, stage 1 no lymph node involvement, totally removed via lumpectomy.  she had 12 weeks of chemo, once per week followed by radiation for 3 weeks and now the antibody, herseptin thru her port every 3 weeks.  during the winter she would stay at our place just outside phoenix and i would join her every few weeks for either a long weekend or a full 7-10 days.  she is due to have her herseptin this coming monday, but with the coronavirus thing we thought we'd see our insurance would cover it in our wisconsin network because it's $20k per dose and we have a whole separate deductible to be met out of network. she went to see an oncologist in phoenix who's willing to work with her oncologist from here.  if our health insurance will not cover it, they were willing to drop the price from $20k to $2k.  this could help her avoid having to fly back and potentially put her at more risk.  my point is, if not for our situation, the insurance, our doc and phoenix doc would probably not even consider this option.  silver lining?  don't know

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 11, 2020, 02:02:01 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 11, 2020, 01:42:05 PM

Yes, but he is an expert, understands what he was saying and still chose to say it.  That says something to me.

Did you see him say it and the context around it or did you read it through the media filter?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 11, 2020, 02:21:47 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 11, 2020, 02:02:01 PM

Did you see him say it and the context around it or did you read it through the media filter?

I read it through multiple articles and looked for one that actually used quotations attributed to the Doctor.

You can watch it here if you want.  His assessment of on trajectory and his opinion on testing starts around 33 mins in (this piece was widely reported). 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbR4NuBTJqo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbR4NuBTJqo)

I cant find his comment on 10X but bloomberg has the video below.  It actually addresses alot of what people are going back and forth on (including H1N1 thing that some have latched onto). 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-11/fauci-warns-coronavirus-far-more-lethal-than-seasonal-flu (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-11/fauci-warns-coronavirus-far-more-lethal-than-seasonal-flu)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 11, 2020, 02:26:39 PM

UW Lacrosse and Beloit close.

Confirmed case in downtown Chicago from Prudential center. Is this the first positive case downtown? Because that could start the dominoes down here

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on March 11, 2020, 02:41:40 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on March 11, 2020, 01:11:13 PM

Great idea.  Let's have everyone spend the entire day in completely packed bars instead.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/03/07/during-spanish-flu-milwaukee-closed-churches-schools-not-saloons/4979405002/ (https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/03/07/during-spanish-flu-milwaukee-closed-churches-schools-not-saloons/4979405002/)

In 1918-19, Milwaukee was among the most successful cities in minimizing the impact of the Spanish flu, though not all of the restrictions it imposed were popular. Clergy weren't pleased that in October 1918 the churches were closed, while saloons were not. Although saloons were allowed to remain open as usual for dining, "patrons stopping by for a drink had to consume it quickly and then leave," Navarro said.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 11, 2020, 02:44:54 PM

Quote from: Greggery Peccary on March 11, 2020, 02:41:40 PM

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/03/07/during-spanish-flu-milwaukee-closed-churches-schools-not-saloons/4979405002/ (https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/03/07/during-spanish-flu-milwaukee-closed-churches-schools-not-saloons/4979405002/)

In 1918-19, Milwaukee was among the most successful cities in minimizing the impact of the Spanish flu, though not all of the restrictions it imposed were popular. Clergy weren't pleased that in October 1918 the churches were closed, while saloons were not. Although saloons were allowed to remain open as usual for dining, "patrons stopping by for a drink had to consume it quickly and then leave," Navarro said.

So the Spanish Flu created the original bar crawl?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on March 11, 2020, 02:55:58 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 11, 2020, 02:44:54 PM

So the Spanish Flu created the original bar crawl?

Just got reminded of the Spanish O’Donnells, talk about a pandemic inducing event.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on March 11, 2020, 02:59:18 PM

Quote from: Greggery Peccary on March 11, 2020, 02:41:40 PM

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/03/07/during-spanish-flu-milwaukee-closed-churches-schools-not-saloons/4979405002/ (https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/03/07/during-spanish-flu-milwaukee-closed-churches-schools-not-saloons/4979405002/)

In 1918-19, Milwaukee was among the most successful cities in minimizing the impact of the Spanish flu, though not all of the restrictions it imposed were popular. Clergy weren't pleased that in October 1918 the churches were closed, while saloons were not. Although saloons were allowed to remain open as usual for dining, "patrons stopping by for a drink had to consume it quickly and then leave," Navarro said.

Didn't get the flu, but did get Millerlitis

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 11, 2020, 03:02:01 PM

Quote from: reinko on March 11, 2020, 02:55:58 PM

Just got reminded of the Spanish O’Donnells, talk about a pandemic inducing event.

Oh god. I remember when that was played at house parties around campus...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 11, 2020, 03:32:54 PM

If we draw a line with a sharpie around the entire country, won’t that keep the germs out?

It’s pretty pathetic that we have to look to governors and mayors to deal with a national crisis.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 11, 2020, 03:52:31 PM

No fans for March Madness. Family only.

Should be “interesting” viewing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Golden Avalanche on March 11, 2020, 04:04:21 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 11, 2020, 03:52:31 PM

No fans for March Madness. Family only.

Should be “interesting” viewing.

Well, at least we won't have to worry about MU fans harassing the Howard family.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 11, 2020, 05:17:23 PM

One last kind of diatribe, and no I'm not a doctor but I've read a lot of books/SME papers and stayed in a number of Holiday Inn Expresses over the years.

There are four main factors of concern for communicable diseases, especially viruses:
-How contagious they are
-How deadly they are
-How alterable they are (how often/extensively they mutate)
-How much we can intervene

Each disease has it's own balance of these four factors that make it what it is. Consider them design trade-offs, something that almost assuredly kills you is also very likely not to be all that contagious and/or a sick person is easily identifiable. Or a disease is highly alterable (there are hundreds of flu mutations) but that variability means that the virus tends to be low on the kill scale because it has to exist in a host for a long time to mutate meaning the host needs to remain alive to support the mutation so to speak. Take some common disease examples, flu, HIV, and Ebola.

Flu is highly contagious and has a high mutation rate but has a low kill rate (0.1%) and allows for moderate intervention (there is some vaccination success and if you get it you can generally treat at home....remember the flu wants to mutate so it needs as many hosts as possible to live as long as possible ie evolution)

HIV is moderately contagious (it's not airborne nor tactile but transmission through blood is a very certain infection) and it is easily disguised (until it becomes AIDS you don't know someone has HIV). However HIV has almost no mutation to it so once you get a handle on it generally you can intervene and/or prevent it's transmission.

Ebola is very contagious if you come in contact with someone who has it, but that person is very visible sick meaning the virus transmission rate is pretty low. It doesn't really mutate(kills too fast) but it's kill rate is very high. So containment is the order of the day because A) you can see it and B) you can't intervene once someone gets it.

As far as Coronavirus, what we know is that it is highly contagious (long incubation period without symptoms and remains on surfaces for a while) but the trade off is that generally the symptoms are mild as a trade off for the long incubation period. What we don't yet know is how much it can/will mutate....if it mutates a lot it will become seasonal, if it doesn't mutate much or at all we can eradicate it like Small Pox, etc. It's kill rate is higher than we are "comfortable" with but that is largely because it is a new virus that we haven't figured out the interventions on and it is exhibiting an tendency to "swarm" creating a lot of carriers and those carriers with underlying conditions become critical which flood the system resulting if likely higher than what will become the standard kill rate.

Bottom line, if we slow the infection rate (this virus cannot be contained) we buy time for the healthcare system to treat the critical patients at a more reasonable rate(which will lower the mortality rate) AND we develop interventions whether its a vaccine or standard response options, or a herd immunity.

All the above is what organizations like the CDC are trying to accomplish but given the relative ignorance of the general public in this subject matter area they are forced to be more alarmist then necessary to try and drive the right behavior.....lump in a broken political system and American culture and you get a 30 page thread on scope about it and the stupidity of stocking up on toilet paper.

Limiting large crowds or working from home for a while or not putting a bunch of kids in dorms for a while makes sense and will slow the infection rate until it's largely distributed through out the population. This is temporary and life will likely return to whatever passes for normal within 6-9 months barring some new intel on the virus. It is neither time to panic nor be cavalier. All will be well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 11, 2020, 05:26:58 PM

U of Minnesota extending Spring Break by a week, then moving all classes online until further notice. I suspect it won’t be long before all schools do this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 11, 2020, 06:08:31 PM

https://www.vox.com/2020/3/10/21171481/coronavirus-us-cases-quarantine-cancellation?fbclid=IwAR3HsmoT8yNGFFijfSS9B70GRpfKp8L7iB9FX9P3G1Sz0IQmIR7zX_IMesw

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 11, 2020, 07:28:29 PM

  so when is it going to be officially "safe" to resume living our lives?  when a proven vaccine comes out?  so will this be like the small pox vaccine or whatever that was, sugar cube in a small paper cup?  back in the 60's?  i remember the lines into the high school gymnasium.  what about the anti-vaccine crowd? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 11, 2020, 07:34:45 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 11, 2020, 05:17:23 PM

As far as Coronavirus, what we know is that it is highly contagious (long incubation period without symptoms and remains on surfaces for a while) but the trade off is that generally the symptoms are mild as a trade off for the long incubation period. What we don't yet know is how much it can/will mutate....if it mutates a lot it will become seasonal, if it doesn't mutate much or at all we can eradicate it like Small Pox, etc. It's kill rate is higher than we are "comfortable" with but that is largely because it is a new virus that we haven't figured out the interventions on and it is exhibiting an tendency to "swarm" creating a lot of carriers and those carriers with underlying conditions become critical which flood the system resulting if likely higher than what will become the standard kill rate.

Some misconceptions here and some other misconceptions in other places in this thread (not necessarily from you).

The coronavirus is actually not that infectious compared to many other diseases.

The symptoms are mild in some people, but very aggressive in others. Bilateral pneumonia that includes in some cases permanent lung damage is not mild. That is very aggressive.

We actually do know how quickly it mutates. Coronviruses mutate reasonably rapidly, and our immune system sucks at gaining long-term immunity. That is why you can often get the same cold twice in one season.

Related misconception that I saw on here, where someone stated that viruses don't mutate to become more aggressive or deadly. That is technically not true. Viruses don't specifically mutate towards any end goal. Mutations are random, some can make it far more aggressive and deadly, others less aggressive. There is no way over a short term to predict which will occur. Over the long term, survival of the fittest wins, and a less deadly form will dominate. That would be over many many generations of the virus. In the short term, it can mutate to a more deadly strain. We can't predict which direction it will go...its random.

We actually likely know the actual kill rate. In China they were going door to door testing everyone repeatedly. China likely had fairly accurate numbers, similar in Korea. They may be off, but they'd be off by something like 10-20%, maybe 30%. That would bring the death rates down to around the 1-2% that the WHO and CDC are predicting, 10x higher than the flu.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 11, 2020, 07:36:10 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 11, 2020, 07:28:29 PM

  so when is it going to be officially "safe" to resume living our lives?  when a proven vaccine comes out?  so will this be like the small pox vaccine or whatever that was, sugar cube in a small paper cup?  back in the 60's?  i remember the lines into the high school gymnasium.  what about the anti-vaccine crowd?

If we don't stop the spread, this will just become a part of life. I'd largely resume your normal life now, with minor extra precautions, e.g. more diligent about washing hands and in the short term, being a little more pragmatic about whether you attend events with large crowds.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 11, 2020, 07:53:10 PM

Cool, but kind of eerie pictures in this article. Especially if you've been to some of these places and know what it usually looks like this time of year.

https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2020/03/empty-spaces-due-coronavirus-fears/607666/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 11, 2020, 08:10:49 PM

If you haven't been terrified in the past few minutes, try this link:

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-11/italy-doctors-coronavirus-covid-19-quarantine-milan-health/ (https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-11/italy-doctors-coronavirus-covid-19-quarantine-milan-health/)

Highlights:

"There are a lot of young people in our Intensive Care Units (ICUs) - our youngest is a 38-year-old who had had no comorbidities (underlying health problems).

"They've told us that starting from now we'll have to choose who to intubate - priority will go to the young or those without comorbidities.

"At Niguarda, the other big hospital in Milan, they are not intubating anyone over 60, which is really, really young."

She added: "This virus is so infectious that the only way to avoid a 'massacre' is to have the least number possible getting infected over the longest possible timescale.

"Right now, if we get 10,000 people in Italy in need of ventilators - when we only have 3,000 in the country - 7,000 people will die.

"Rome right now is like where Milan was 10 days ago. In 10 days there has been an incredible escalation.

"Lombardy, which has the best healthcare in the country, is collapsing, so I don’t dare to think what would happen in less efficient regions.

"But the very young are crazy carriers.

"A child with no symptoms will go to visit its grandparents, and basically kill them. So it’s essential to avoid contact between them".

"All the resuscitation bays are full. They’re having to triage, deciding who to intubate and who to let die."


He added: "You have no idea how many young people are here, I mean even 20-year-olds with no underlying conditions, in need of assisted breathing because of horrible pneumonia.

"There aren’t the resources to screen doctors for Covid-19 anymore - they’re just telling them 'stay home if you have symptoms, otherwise come to work'."

The World Health Organisation ranks Italy second in the world for health care provision, with only France rated higher. The UK is 18th.

And yet even a system as good as this is teetering on the brink.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 11, 2020, 08:22:02 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 11, 2020, 08:10:49 PM

If you haven't been terrified in the past few minutes, try this link:

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-11/italy-doctors-coronavirus-covid-19-quarantine-milan-health/ (https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-11/italy-doctors-coronavirus-covid-19-quarantine-milan-health/)

Highlights:

"There are a lot of young people in our Intensive Care Units (ICUs) - our youngest is a 38-year-old who had had no comorbidities (underlying health problems).

"They've told us that starting from now we'll have to choose who to intubate - priority will go to the young or those without comorbidities.

"At Niguarda, the other big hospital in Milan, they are not intubating anyone over 60, which is really, really young."

She added: "This virus is so infectious that the only way to avoid a 'massacre' is to have the least number possible getting infected over the longest possible timescale.

"Right now, if we get 10,000 people in Italy in need of ventilators - when we only have 3,000 in the country - 7,000 people will die.

"Rome right now is like where Milan was 10 days ago. In 10 days there has been an incredible escalation.

"Lombardy, which has the best healthcare in the country, is collapsing, so I don’t dare to think what would happen in less efficient regions.

"But the very young are crazy carriers.

"A child with no symptoms will go to visit its grandparents, and basically kill them. So it’s essential to avoid contact between them".

"All the resuscitation bays are full. They’re having to triage, deciding who to intubate and who to let die."


He added: "You have no idea how many young people are here, I mean even 20-year-olds with no underlying conditions, in need of assisted breathing because of horrible pneumonia.

"There aren’t the resources to screen doctors for Covid-19 anymore - they’re just telling them 'stay home if you have symptoms, otherwise come to work'."

The World Health Organisation ranks Italy second in the world for health care provision, with only France rated higher. The UK is 18th.

And yet even a system as good as this is teetering on the brink.

'just the flu'

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 11, 2020, 08:42:22 PM

Serious rumor that the rest of the NBA season is postponed.

Also, Tom Hanks and his wife have tested positive in Australia.

Well, its not a rumor.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28887560/nba-suspends-season-further-notice-player-tests-positive-coronavirus

So much for the Bucks... Christ.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Sir Lawrence on March 11, 2020, 08:48:56 PM

Hiatus.  Whatever that means. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Blackhat on March 11, 2020, 09:36:46 PM

I will give you one guess which country is the world's largest producer of human vaccines?

China

The media machine is powerful.  This is a good test though of are you and your emotions a sheep to the powerful media machine or not.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 11, 2020, 09:38:16 PM

Quote from: Blackhat on March 11, 2020, 09:36:46 PM

I will give you one guess which country is the world's largest producer of human vaccines?

China

The media machine is powerful.  This is a good test though of are you and your emotions a sheep to the powerful media machine or not.

Would you please expand?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Blackhat on March 11, 2020, 09:52:19 PM

Connect the dots and use critical thinking, it's pretty obvious to figure out when for the last 30 years we've been sending jobs to and financing China's economy at our expense with hardly a peep from the globalist run media.  Recently that changed some.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 11, 2020, 09:52:32 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 11, 2020, 09:38:16 PM

Would you please expand?

Cocktails.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 11, 2020, 09:53:19 PM

Quote from: Blackhat on March 11, 2020, 09:52:19 PM

Connect the dots and use critical thinking, it's pretty obvious to figure out when for the last 30 years we've been sending jobs to and financing China's economy at our expense with hardly a peep from the globalist run media.  Recently that changed some.

Its easier if you just tell us your crackpot theory, rather than being vague.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Eldon on March 11, 2020, 09:56:52 PM

Quote from: Blackhat on March 11, 2020, 09:52:19 PM

Connect the dots and use critical thinking, it's pretty obvious to figure out when for the last 30 years we've been sending jobs to and financing China's economy at our expense with hardly a peep from the globalist run media.  Recently that changed some.

Financial markets would sniff through all that.  They'd ferret out the truth. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on March 11, 2020, 10:12:20 PM

Quote from: Eldon on March 11, 2020, 09:56:52 PM

Financial markets would sniff through all that.  They'd ferret out the truth.

Financial markets are jittery because they're tired of all the winning.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Sir Lawrence on March 11, 2020, 10:19:27 PM

https://mobile.twitter.com/RobDauster/status/1237926172283015168?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 11, 2020, 10:21:08 PM

Quote from: Blackhat on March 11, 2020, 09:52:19 PM

Connect the dots and use critical thinking, it's pretty obvious to figure out when for the last 30 years we've been sending jobs to and financing China's economy at our expense with hardly a peep from the globalist run media.  Recently that changed some.

5th OWI yesterday, eh kin?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 11, 2020, 10:23:01 PM

Boys state basketball championships in Madison next week have been cancelled, per Mark Miller on the

TWITTA TRACKA

[/size][/color]

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 11, 2020, 11:02:14 PM

Quote from: Sir Lawrence on March 11, 2020, 10:19:27 PM

https://mobile.twitter.com/RobDauster/status/1237926172283015168?s=19

Entire Nebraska team currently under quarantine. Not allowed to leave the locker room.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on March 12, 2020, 12:42:14 AM

Quote from: forgetful on March 11, 2020, 11:02:14 PM

Entire Nebraska team currently under quarantine. Not allowed to leave the locker room.

Later confirmed as influenza A (aka 'just the flu'  ::))

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 12, 2020, 06:46:58 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 11, 2020, 09:53:19 PM

Its easier if you just tell us your crackpot theory, rather than being vague.

see, this is where unnecessary divisions are created-"crackpot" ?    when people believe different from you, it's "crackpot"?  we've already established that you're background is "biomedical sciences"  'nuff said,   stay in your lane so all of us can drive safe

  the media isn't conventional wisdom

out of bad comes good/improved.  if one does not learn from their mistakes, they are doomed, lucky if they are able to repeat them.  this is our opportunity to grow a pair and take back control of our own destiny. 

  let's pretend we are at war and our enemy makes all the ammunition

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 12, 2020, 06:58:08 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 11, 2020, 10:23:01 PM

Boys state basketball championships in Madison next week have been cancelled, per Mark Miller on the

TWITTA TRACKA

[/size][/color]

not official yet, but only family would be allowed to attend.  My son is supposed to play in a sectional semi tonight and i will be honest it is real hard to get excited about it at this point.
Feels a lot like 9/11 when our lives changed forever

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: CreightonWarrior on March 12, 2020, 07:17:24 AM

Nebraska state basketball limiting to immediate family only.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 12, 2020, 07:38:42 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 12, 2020, 06:46:58 AM

see, this is where unnecessary divisions are created-"crackpot" ?    when people believe different from you, it's "crackpot"?  we've already established that you're background is "biomedical sciences"  'nuff said,   stay in your lane so all of us can drive safe

  the media isn't conventional wisdom

out of bad comes good/improved.  if one does not learn from their mistakes, they are doomed, lucky if they are able to repeat them.  this is our opportunity to grow a pair and take back control of our own destiny. 

  let's pretend we are at war and our enemy makes all the ammunition

Lol. It’s a crackpot theory. Sorry if that offends you.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TallTitan34 on March 12, 2020, 07:58:08 AM

Quote from: GB Warrior on March 12, 2020, 12:42:14 AM

Later confirmed as influenza A (aka 'just the flu'  ::))

Not only did Fred show up sick when 99.9% of people agree don’t go to work sick, he showed up looking like he was going to drop 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on March 12, 2020, 08:09:44 AM

Quote from: Blackhat on March 11, 2020, 09:52:19 PM

Connect the dots and use critical thinking, it's pretty obvious to figure out when for the last 30 years we've been sending jobs to and financing China's economy at our expense with hardly a peep from the globalist run media.  Recently that changed some.

"globalist"

When someone tells you who they are, believe them. Even if they tell you with words that give them plausible deniability.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 12, 2020, 08:13:50 AM

Quote from: TallTitan34 on March 12, 2020, 07:58:08 AM

Not only did Fred show up sick when 99.9% of people agree don’t go to work sick, he showed up looking like he was going to drop

He wanted his version of the flu game

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on March 12, 2020, 08:48:37 AM

However one feels about whether this whole situation is overblown or not being treated seriously enough, I think we can all agree that this is an example of how not to handle things.

One of the bigger junior volleyball tournaments of the year is/was scheduled to start today in Denver. In typical years, it would probably have 700 teams or so. Last night at about 9:00 USAV "recommended" that all events be cancelled or postponed. The tournament is sanctioned by USAV, but each of these big qualifying tournaments is owned/operated by an independent entity. At approximately midnight, the tournament released a statement indicating that in spite of USAV's recommendation, they were going forward. This was done with the understanding that many people would be traveling today, and to let them know to feel free to come. My immediate reaction was to think that they were setting up the worst possible scenario -- people will travel there and then they'll have to cancel it. Less than six hours later (5:30 AM) they reversed course and cancelled. I suppose it's better than cancelling later in the day, but still a problem as many people already were on their way.

Making matters worse, they announced the cancellation on Facebook but their website still had last night's notice until very recently.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 12, 2020, 08:49:50 AM

Stop with the hand sanitizer craze, mkay?

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2020/3/11/21173187/coronavirus-covid-19-hand-washing-sanitizer-compared-soap-is-dope (https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2020/3/11/21173187/coronavirus-covid-19-hand-washing-sanitizer-compared-soap-is-dope)

.. there’s one consumer product critical to our great national battle to “flatten the curve,” or slow the epidemic: soap. Humble, ancient, cheap, effective soap.

Sanitizer might feel like a modern-day, scientific, and more clinical upgrade to soap. But I’m here to tell you that soap — all sorts of it: liquid, solid, honeysuckle-scented, the versions inexplicably only marketed to men or women — is a badass, and even more routinely effective than hand sanitizer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 12, 2020, 08:54:01 AM

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-03-09/how-coronavirus-spread-from-patient-zero-in-seattle

How'd you like to be THIS guy?  Patient Zero in Seattle.  Comes back from Wuhan, and fast forward 28 days, the virus he transported has killed 18 so far.   

That's a lot of emotional baggage.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 12, 2020, 08:56:50 AM

Quote from: injuryBug on March 12, 2020, 06:58:08 AM

not official yet, but only family would be allowed to attend.  My son is supposed to play in a sectional semi tonight and i will be honest it is real hard to get excited about it at this point.
Feels a lot like 9/11 when our lives changed forever

https://twitter.com/SusanKim4/status/1238100445761077250?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 12, 2020, 08:58:21 AM

FYI, this afternoon the Govenor of Wisconsin will be declaring a state of emergency

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on March 12, 2020, 09:04:26 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 12, 2020, 08:58:21 AM

FYI, this afternoon the Govenor of Wisconsin will be declaring a state of emergency

(https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-15-2015/CiQY0T.gif)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 12, 2020, 09:33:46 AM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 12, 2020, 08:48:37 AM

However one feels about whether this whole situation is overblown or not being treated seriously enough, I think we can all agree that this is an example of how not to handle things.

One of the bigger junior volleyball tournaments of the year is/was scheduled to start today in Denver. In typical years, it would probably have 700 teams or so. Last night at about 9:00 USAV "recommended" that all events be cancelled or postponed. The tournament is sanctioned by USAV, but each of these big qualifying tournaments is owned/operated by an independent entity. At approximately midnight, the tournament released a statement indicating that in spite of USAV's recommendation, they were going forward. This was done with the understanding that many people would be traveling today, and to let them know to feel free to come. My immediate reaction was to think that they were setting up the worst possible scenario -- people will travel there and then they'll have to cancel it. Less than six hours later (5:30 AM) they reversed course and cancelled. I suppose it's better than cancelling later in the day, but still a problem as many people already were on their way.

Making matters worse, they announced the cancellation on Facebook but their website still had last night's notice until very recently.

Our State tournament is scheduled to start 5/1.  I give it a 25% chance to happen at this point, i.e., we'll be over the worst of it and travel and crowds will start to go back to normal.  I suspect it is more likely sometime this summer that that actually happens.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 12, 2020, 10:00:48 AM

I heard from one of my Chinese customers this morning.  (Chengdu)  FWIW - She said the epidemic situation in China has improved.  Many cities have not added new cases for a long time, and she is very confident that she will take off the mask soon.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 12, 2020, 10:31:17 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 12, 2020, 10:00:48 AM

I heard from one of my Chinese customers this morning.  (Chengdu)  FWIW - She said the epidemic situation in China has improved.  Many cities have not added new cases for a long time, and she is very confident that she will take off the mask soon.

Wait until Americans and Europeans start bringing it back in with them

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 12, 2020, 10:36:07 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 12, 2020, 10:31:17 AM

Wait until Americans and Europeans start bringing it back in with them

Is there any information on reinfection?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on March 12, 2020, 11:23:25 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 12, 2020, 08:58:21 AM

FYI, this afternoon the Govenor of Wisconsin will be declaring a state of emergency

Has da DNC bin canceled, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 12, 2020, 11:32:08 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 12, 2020, 10:36:07 AM

Is there any information on reinfection?

Not that I know of, but if China "reopens" anyone who hasn't gotten it because of extreme containment procedures is vulnerable again which starts it all over again. That's why you flatten the curve, not kill it at this point.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 12, 2020, 11:37:31 AM

so if mitchell is the only Jazz player to get the virus does that make us less worried about how easy this is transmitted?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 12, 2020, 11:40:44 AM

Quote from: injuryBug on March 12, 2020, 11:37:31 AM

so if mitchell is the only Jazz player to get the virus does that make us less worried about how easy this is transmitted?

So the Utah Jazz represent the entirety of the data on how easilly this disease is transmitted?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 12, 2020, 11:45:57 AM

a simple question could the virus being slowing?  has it mutated since it was in china?  I dont know just asking, everyone takes the numbers and turns them the way they want them anyway so this is a real situation that can be tracked

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 12, 2020, 11:49:30 AM

Quote from: injuryBug on March 12, 2020, 11:45:57 AM

a simple question could the virus being slowing?  has it mutated since it was in china?  I dont know just asking, everyone takes the numbers and turns them the way they want them anyway so this is a real situation that can be tracked

The Utah Jazz aren't a representative population.  Just pay attention to what the CDC and NIH are saying.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on March 12, 2020, 11:55:15 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 12, 2020, 11:23:25 AM

Has da DNC bin canceled, hey?

Well, it's going to be interesting as the NBA figures out its plans. It can't really move the playoff schedule, so assuming life resumes as normal at some point, it likely just truncates the regular season and wouldn't impact.

But there's an AWFUL lot of infrastructure that had to go into this to make it work in a normal year. This is no longer a normal year.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 12, 2020, 12:25:43 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 12, 2020, 11:32:08 AM

Not that I know of, but if China "reopens" anyone who hasn't gotten it because of extreme containment procedures is vulnerable again which starts it all over again. That's why you flatten the curve, not kill it at this point.

China would be smart to ban flights for now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ChuckyChip on March 12, 2020, 12:53:38 PM

MLB and NHL suspending operations.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 12, 2020, 12:57:34 PM

For those interested in reinfection, mutations, etc. This is a summary of an old study, but is relevant here.

Coronaviruses cause the common cold. We can get the same cold virus multiple times in a season, because of the structure of coronaviruses. That means reinfection in the same year is plausible, and we will likely not generate long-term immunity. This is due to a combination of mutations and the structure of coronaviruses. This is summarized in the link below.

https://www.technologynetworks.com/immunology/news/why-dont-we-ever-develop-immunity-against-the-common-cold-294551

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 12, 2020, 12:58:47 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 12, 2020, 12:57:34 PM

For those interested in reinfection, mutations, etc. This is a summary of an old study, but is relevant here.

Coronaviruses cause the common cold. We can get the same cold virus multiple times in a season, because of the structure of coronaviruses. That means reinfection in the same year is plausible, and we will likely not generate long-term immunity. This is due to a combination of mutations and the structure of coronaviruses. This is summarized in the link below.

https://www.technologynetworks.com/immunology/news/why-dont-we-ever-develop-immunity-against-the-common-cold-294551

Would such mutations also mean that the disease could be less deadly and less easily transmitted as well?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on March 12, 2020, 01:02:59 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 12, 2020, 12:58:47 PM

Would such mutations also mean that the disease could be less deadly and less easily transmitted as well?

there are two strains already known to be less deadly.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on March 12, 2020, 02:20:10 PM

Ohio governor just cancelled all schools K-12 for three weeks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 12, 2020, 02:23:54 PM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 12, 2020, 02:20:10 PM

Ohio governor just cancelled all schools K-12 for three weeks.

I was expecting this too.  Other countries have done it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 12, 2020, 02:37:19 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 12, 2020, 02:23:54 PM

I was expecting this too.  Other countries have done it.

Still feels extreme, a lot of kids depend on school meal programs, etc

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 12, 2020, 02:40:04 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 12, 2020, 02:37:19 PM

Still feels extreme, a lot of kids depend on school meal programs, etc

This my GF tells me a lot of her students come to school just for two free meals.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: BM1090 on March 12, 2020, 02:49:42 PM

Do we think domestic flights/airports will be shut down at any point?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 12, 2020, 02:54:04 PM

Quote from: BM1090 on March 12, 2020, 02:49:42 PM

Do we think domestic flights/airports will be shut down at any point?

I personally don't think so - I think you recommend avoiding unnecessary travel (many already are) and then the airlines do whatever they must. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Bad_Reporter on March 12, 2020, 02:58:13 PM

Quote from: BM1090 on March 12, 2020, 02:49:42 PM

Do we think domestic flights/airports will be shut down at any point?

No.

No info, just an opinion

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 12, 2020, 03:15:46 PM

I know the 1918 flu has been brought up here a few times, and maybe I missed this link previously, but an interesting 2007 report of the economic impact, and what it could mean for a pandemic today.

https://www.stlouisfed.org/~/media/files/pdfs/community-development/research-reports/pandemic_flu_report.pdf

I haven't read every word yet, but seemed relevant.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Golden Avalanche on March 12, 2020, 03:50:08 PM

Quote from: BM1090 on March 12, 2020, 02:49:42 PM

Do we think domestic flights/airports will be shut down at any point?

potus said today it's something he will look at. We all know he's a purveyor of word salad but if it's now on his radar then you have to consider it a possibility.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HouWarrior on March 12, 2020, 04:12:07 PM

Mexico reports many less cases than other parts of the world

They have dealt with Corona for decades...its better with a wedge of lime

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Sir Lawrence on March 12, 2020, 04:31:29 PM

Milwaukee Archbishop Jerome Listecki Dispenses Catholics from their Sunday Mass Obligation Due to Coronavirus

MILWAUKEE  ― The Archdiocese of Milwaukee announced today that Milwaukee Archbishop Jerome E. Listecki has dispensed Catholics from their obligation to attend Sunday Mass due to concerns about the spread of Covid-19, the coronavirus. The dispensation will cover the next two weeks, including Masses for Sundays March 15, 22 and 29. Masses will still be celebrated across the 10 counties of the archdiocese, but the obligation to attend Sunday Mass will be lifted, leaving attendance to people’s individual judgment.

[there's more, if you are interested:  https://www.archmil.org/News-2.0/Archbishop-Listecki-Dispenses-Catholics-from-Sunday-Mass-Obligation.htm ]

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on March 12, 2020, 04:33:41 PM

Ohio is being extremely aggressive about this. The Director of the Ohio Department of Health said today that she believes at least 1% of Ohioans (i.e., at least 100k) are already infected. That certainly surprised me to hear.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 12, 2020, 05:04:42 PM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 12, 2020, 04:33:41 PM

Ohio is being extremely aggressive about this. The Director of the Ohio Department of Health said today that she believes at least 1% of Ohioans (i.e., at least 100k) are already infected. That certainly surprised me to hear.

I'd love to hear the basis for that considering they are reporting only 4 confirmed

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on March 12, 2020, 05:09:08 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 12, 2020, 05:04:42 PM

I'd love to hear the basis for that considering they are reporting only 4 confirmed

Five, but your point stands.

She cited some source -- that I haven't read yet -- that if you have two cases of community spread, it's likely that 1% are infected. I'm skeptical. I have come around to recognizing that this is a very serious situation, but that just seems a little over-the-top. And coming from the State's top health official, I'm surprised.

A report of her comment here (https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/continuing-coverage/coronavirus/ohio-department-of-health-says-100-000-ohioans-are-carrying-coronavirus).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 12, 2020, 05:15:08 PM

Quote from: Sir Lawrence on March 12, 2020, 04:31:29 PM

Milwaukee Archbishop Jerome Listecki Dispenses Catholics from their Sunday Mass Obligation Due to Coronavirus
Masses will still be celebrated across the 10 counties of the archdiocese, but the obligation to attend Sunday Mass will be lifted, leaving attendance to people’s individual judgment.

I was just discussing this with my wife last night .. her parents are near 80 years old and frankly .. should NOT go to church for the next few months.  It shouldn't even be left to their own judgement. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 12, 2020, 05:59:39 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 12, 2020, 07:38:42 AM

Lol. It’s a crackpot theory. Sorry if that offends you.

LOL?  you ok?  absolutely no offense taken, just trying to level the playing field

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 12, 2020, 06:00:25 PM

So...yeah...still not enough known, but spreads easily...

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/03/study-covid-19-may-spread-several-different-ways

Quote

They also drew the eight-floor shopping mall showing the floors where the COVID-19 patients worked or shopped, dates of onset, potential incubation periods, symptom durations, and times of positive diagnosis and hospital release.

Except for those who had visited floor 7, no patients reported close contact with the other patients. "The possibility of customers being infected from other sources cannot be excluded. However, most customers reported early symptom onset in a concentrated time frame," the authors wrote. "Our findings appear to indicate that low intensity transmission occurred without prolonged close contact in this mall; that is, the virus spread by indirect transmission."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Chili on March 12, 2020, 06:05:39 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 12, 2020, 05:04:42 PM

I'd love to hear the basis for that considering they are reporting only 4 confirmed

Read Angela Merkel's statements from earlier today. An actual leader talking to her citizens like adults with scientific facts. Ohio is doing what the US should be doing. Social distancing is the answer but Americans are too set in liberty and freedom to believe it. It's the one of negative effects of our society is that we believe in ourselves too much and don't follow rules or care for others in our community.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on March 12, 2020, 06:09:33 PM

Quote from: Chili on March 12, 2020, 06:05:39 PM

Read Angela Merkel's statements from earlier today. An actual leader talking to her citizens like adults with scientific facts. Ohio is doing what the US should be doing. Social distancing is the answer but Americans are too set in liberty and freedom to believe it. It's the one of negative effects of our society is that we believe in ourselves too much and don't follow rules or care for others in our community.

Emphasis on the latter. Germans have a rooting in civic, nationalistic responsibility that allows the 'trust factor' to be meaningful.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on March 12, 2020, 06:10:26 PM

My organization has been ordered to work from home for the rest of the month. They also canceled my retirement party.  :-[

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on March 12, 2020, 06:33:20 PM

Oh no warrior chick -maybe it can be held later.
My parish has announced it will be closed for the next ten days. We livestream the 5 pm Mass on Sundays already, so they are going to livestream one Sunday morning service.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 12, 2020, 06:42:49 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 12, 2020, 05:04:42 PM

I'd love to hear the basis for that considering they are reporting only 4 confirmed

The number may well be exaggerated, but it's hard to confirm when the gov't doesn't provided testing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 12, 2020, 06:44:10 PM

CDW just told pretty much all of us to work from home for at least 2 weeks. My manager told us to on Tuesday.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on March 12, 2020, 06:46:04 PM

STANFORD HOSPITAL BOARD INTERNAL MESSAGE SAYS:
Read and understand

The new Coronavirus may not show sign of infection for many days. How can one know if he/she is infected? By the time they have fever and/or cough and go to the hospital, the lung is usually 50% Fibrosis and it's too late. Taiwan experts provide a simple self-check that we can do every morning. Take a deep breath and hold your breath for more than 10 seconds. If you complete it successfully without coughing, without discomfort, stiffness or tightness, etc., it proves there is no Fibrosis in the lungs, basically indicates no infection. In critical time, please self-check every morning in an environment with clean air.


EDIT:    THIS IS FALSE INFO. 

Serious excellent advice by Japanese doctors treating COVID-19 cases: Everyone should ensure your mouth & throat are moist, never dry. Take a few sips of water every 15 minutes at least. Why? Even if the virus gets into your mouth, drinking water or other liquids will wash them down through your throat and into the stomach. Once there, your stomach acid will kill all the virus. If you don't drink enough water more regularly, the virus can enter your windpipe and into the lungs. That's very dangerous. Please send and share this with family and friends. Take care everyone and may the world recover from this Coronavirus soon.


EDIT: FALSE AGAIN:  https://apnews.com/afs:Content:8551030197 (https://apnews.com/afs:Content:8551030197)

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT - CORONAVIRUS

1. If you have a runny nose and sputum, you have a common cold
2. Coronavirus pneumonia is a dry cough with no runny nose.
3. This new virus is not heat-resistant and will be killed by a temperature of just 26/27 degrees. It hates the Sun.
4. If someone sneezes with it, it takes about 10 feet before it drops to the ground and is no longer airborne.
5. If it drops on a metal surface it will live for at least 12 hours - so if you come into contact with any metal surface - wash your hands as soon as you can with a bacterial soap.
6. On fabric it can survive for 6-12 hours. normal laundry detergent will kill it.
7. Drinking warm water is effective for all viruses. Try not to drink liquids with ice.
8. Wash your hands frequently as the virus can only live on your hands for 5-10 minutes, but - a lot can happen during that time - you can rub your eyes, pick your nose unwittingly and so on.
9. You should also gargle as a prevention. A simple solution of salt in warm water will suffice.
10. Can't emphasis enough - drink plenty of water!

THE SYMPTOMS
1. It will first infect the throat, so you'll have a sore throat lasting 3/4 days
2. The virus then blends into a nasal fluid that enters the trachea and then the lungs, causing pneumonia. This takes about 5/6 days further.
3. With the pneumonia comes high fever and difficulty in breathing.
4. The nasal congestion is not like the normal kind. You feel like you're drowning. It's imperative you then seek immediate attention.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 12, 2020, 06:56:51 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 12, 2020, 05:59:39 PM

LOL?  you ok?  absolutely no offense taken, just trying to level the playing field

Level the playing field?  This isn’t a debate. It’s a falsehood.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 12, 2020, 07:09:24 PM

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 12, 2020, 06:46:04 PM

STANFORD HOSPITAL BOARD INTERNAL MESSAGE SAYS:
Read and understand

Dr B... where'd you get that?  Is it authentic?  I mean .. the advice (if true) is gold.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 12, 2020, 07:11:44 PM

Edit:  Dr. B .. that may all be a hoax.  The 10 second breath hold is false.


The drinking water piece is false.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/taiwan-experts-self-check/ (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/taiwan-experts-self-check/)



https://apnews.com/afs:Content:8551030197 (https://apnews.com/afs:Content:8551030197)


Normally I don't edit people's posts, but I do not want false information spread around.   It's good to leave it there, though, so people can recognize the falsehoods.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on March 12, 2020, 07:26:45 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 12, 2020, 07:11:44 PM

Edit:  Dr. B .. that may all be a hoax.  The 10 second breath hold is false.


The drinking water piece is false.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/taiwan-experts-self-check/ (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/taiwan-experts-self-check/)



https://apnews.com/afs:Content:8551030197 (https://apnews.com/afs:Content:8551030197)


Normally I don't edit people's posts, but I do not want false information spread around.   It's good to leave it there, though, so people can recognize the falsehoods.

Oh wow. Was sent to me via Facebook by a medical professional (who shall remain nameless...but I might share a pillow with).  Thanks for the fact check.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 12, 2020, 07:30:40 PM

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 12, 2020, 07:26:45 PM

Oh wow. Was sent to me via Facebook by a medical professional (who shall remain nameless...but I might share a pillow with).  Thanks for the fact check.

Ouch.  So, do us a favor and have your pillow partner follow up with whoever sent her that info, tell them it's false and, yadda yadda, stop spreading.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 12, 2020, 07:39:45 PM

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 12, 2020, 07:26:45 PM

Oh wow. Was sent to me via Facebook by a medical professional (who shall remain nameless...but I might share a pillow with).  Thanks for the fact check.

Gooooooo?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 12, 2020, 07:44:47 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 12, 2020, 02:37:19 PM

Still feels extreme, a lot of kids depend on school meal programs, etc

An idea that has been floated is drive ups at schools.  You get 4 meals worth and can come back every other day.  How the kid gets to the school is probably trickier, but I imagine that a lot of the parents that have problems providing food for kids will also be out of work soon as well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 12, 2020, 07:46:53 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 12, 2020, 05:04:42 PM

I'd love to hear the basis for that considering they are reporting only 4 confirmed

Because there aren't enough tests to check people for this, and the tests don't turn over instantly.

I know you're a numbers guy, but sometimes you have to use estimates, and mathematical models to determine this sort of thing.  Just like we can't with absolute accuracy predict the CFR, we can go with what we have.

You can only tell John Q Public, "We don't know" so long before they freak out.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 12, 2020, 07:48:53 PM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 12, 2020, 04:33:41 PM

Ohio is being extremely aggressive about this. The Director of the Ohio Department of Health said today that she believes at least 1% of Ohioans (i.e., at least 100k) are already infected. That certainly surprised me to hear.

Wow, that person is ridiculously overestimating the number of infections. There is little to no data to support such an assertion.

I know epidemiologists that have run many models with the best CDC data, and that is way off scale from even their most aggressive models.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 12, 2020, 07:49:19 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 12, 2020, 05:59:39 PM

LOL?  you ok?  absolutely no offense taken, just trying to level the playing field

Well, I mean, I injected zero politics into it.  So you swung and missed on the criticism of me there.  He was talking in vagaries for no reason.  Why else say it that way unless he is embarrassed to explain himself?  He never really responded after with what he meant.  I don't know the guy, could have been some Democratic Hoax crackpot theory.

Cool your jets, mate.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 12, 2020, 07:53:22 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 12, 2020, 07:44:47 PM

An idea that has been floated is drive ups at schools.  You get 4 meals worth and can come back every other day.  How the kid gets to the school is probably trickier, but I imagine that a lot of the parents that have problems providing food for kids will also be out of work soon as well.

Don't worry. Congress is gonna pass a bill supporting working families.

Wait. No. Sorry.

Govt instead gonna give a trillion to wall street

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on March 12, 2020, 07:53:54 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 12, 2020, 07:30:40 PM

Ouch.  So, do us a favor and have your pillow partner follow up with whoever sent her that info, tell them it's false and, yadda yadda, stop spreading.

Well it was a doctor who sent it to her to be fair. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on March 12, 2020, 07:55:29 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 12, 2020, 07:44:47 PM

An idea that has been floated is drive ups at schools.  You get 4 meals worth and can come back every other day.  How the kid gets to the school is probably trickier, but I imagine that a lot of the parents that have problems providing food for kids will also be out of work soon as well.

I live in Montgomery County in Maryland, and they have closed schools for at least 2 weeks, and have already announced plans for pick up meals for families.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 12, 2020, 08:00:50 PM

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 12, 2020, 07:53:54 PM

Well it was a doctor who sent it to her to be fair.

Doctors are not much different than anyone else here. The average doctor does not have much training in this arena, if any at all.

Scientists don't have enough data on this virus to make any valid conclusions. So there is a lot of false information circulating from even people that are supposed to be "respected sources".

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on March 12, 2020, 08:05:16 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 12, 2020, 08:00:50 PM

Doctors are not much different than anyone else here. The average doctor does not have much training in this arena, if any at all.

Scientists don't have enough data on this virus to make any valid conclusions. So there is a lot of false information circulating from even people that are supposed to be "respected sources".

So true. Staying hydrated with a virus and doing a breath check isn't wrong...it's just not right with this SOB either as this evolves.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 12, 2020, 08:35:38 PM

Not official yet, but it sounds like many Milwaukee area school districts will be closing starting on Monday. 

Teachers are preparing packets of "work" for kids to deliver tomorrow.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 12, 2020, 09:10:33 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 12, 2020, 08:00:50 PM

Doctors are not much different than anyone else here. The average doctor does not have much training in this arena, if any at all.

Scientists don't have enough data on this virus to make any valid conclusions. So there is a lot of false information circulating from even people that are supposed to be "respected sources".

let's not over simplify this forget.  i think most in the biological/medical field have quite a bit more understanding of this than "anyone else here".  that is not saying we are better than anyone else though.  it's just that we have an educational background/foundation like understanding a foreign language.  once you know how microbio, proteins, enzymes, osmosis, solubilities, rna, dna, yadda yadda...now, when it starts getting really intricate, with pharmaceuticals for example.  that's when i am not bashful at all about calling a pharmacist.  my little brother has been a pharmacist at merriter hospital in direct patient care for 25 years-solid!  for this, an epidemiologist is worth his weight.  otherwise opinions can be like...everyone has one

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 12, 2020, 09:14:35 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 12, 2020, 08:35:38 PM

Not official yet, but it sounds like many Milwaukee area school districts will be closing starting on Monday. 

Teachers are preparing packets of "work" for kids to deliver tomorrow.

I have a first person account of a Dane county school where the teachers are learning how to teach online.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 12, 2020, 10:49:33 PM

Quote from: Chili on March 12, 2020, 06:05:39 PM

Read Angela Merkel's statements from earlier today. An actual leader talking to her citizens like adults with scientific facts. Ohio is doing what the US should be doing. Social distancing is the answer but Americans are too set in liberty and freedom to believe it. It's the one of negative effects of our society is that we believe in ourselves too much and don't follow rules or care for others in our community.

Didn't Merkel say that 70% of the population would be infected? What science is that based on?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 12, 2020, 10:52:19 PM

I haven't read every page, so this may have been posted already, but I think it's worth sharing regardless. Simple, effective steps to help prevent the spread are outlined. There's little panic, no sensational numbers, just basic advice.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/solutions/2020/03/10/uw-madison-health-expert-has-advice-on-how-to-fight-coronavirus/5004659002/ (https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/solutions/2020/03/10/uw-madison-health-expert-has-advice-on-how-to-fight-coronavirus/5004659002/)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 12, 2020, 10:52:44 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 12, 2020, 10:49:33 PM

Didn't Merkel say that 70% of the population would be infected? What science is that based on?

Yeah, you dont want to follow the krauts on this one.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 12, 2020, 11:15:04 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 12, 2020, 10:49:33 PM

Didn't Merkel say that 70% of the population would be infected? What science is that based on?

She's predicting that 70% of the population will eventually be infected. Without controls that is what science predicts. Right now most science also says that we may slow the rate of infections, but we won't decrease the eventual total number infected.

I disagree with the latter aspect, but what she is claiming is consistent with the science.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 12, 2020, 11:24:45 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 12, 2020, 10:49:33 PM

Didn't Merkel say that 70% of the population would be infected? What science is that based on?

I'll answer my own question on this one. The article below helps explain some of the numbers that seem to be creating so much fear/panic/concern right now.

The way I understand this is that containing the virus may be extremely difficult, especially with so many unknowns regarding transmission and treatment. And if that does prove to be the case, the virus may become part of the annual cold and flu season. If this is the case, then sure, I can understand the idea of a majority of the population becoming infected.

But there seems to be a very important caveat to that message. There could be a possibility that you will be infected ***at some point in your life*** The message that seems to be coming through and that has been repeated often is that these high rates of infection are likely to occur all at once and soon.

If the high infection rate message coming from experts refers to the idea of a new cold and flu season developing over a number of years, this should be clarified by researchers and leaders. Panic might help to achieve the needed results in the short-term, but education is important for the long-term.

]https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/covid-vaccine/607000/[url] (https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/covid-vaccine/607000/[url)[/url]

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 13, 2020, 05:01:20 AM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 12, 2020, 11:24:45 PM

I'll answer my own question on this one. The article below helps explain some of the numbers that seem to be creating so much fear/panic/concern right now.

The way I understand this is that containing the virus may be extremely difficult, especially with so many unknowns regarding transmission and treatment. And if that does prove to be the case, the virus may become part of the annual cold and flu season. If this is the case, then sure, I can understand the idea of a majority of the population becoming infected.

But there seems to be a very important caveat to that message. There could be a possibility that you will be infected ***at some point in your life*** The message that seems to be coming through and that has been repeated often is that these high rates of infection are likely to occur all at once and soon.

If the high infection rate message coming from experts refers to the idea of a new cold and flu season developing over a number of years, this should be clarified by researchers and leaders. Panic might help to achieve the needed results in the short-term, but education is important for the long-term.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/covid-vaccine/607000/[url]]]https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/covid-vaccine/607000/[url] (https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/covid-vaccine/607000/[url=http://)[/url]

Its really reassuring to see that a lot of people's information and understanding is weeks behind.  That article is two and a half weeks old.  You know, back when Italy had a grand total of 229 cases.

You're going to get it, but the time to trust government responses, and not take precautions, and prepare is well passed.

Once you start reading a bit more, you'll probably agree.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 13, 2020, 06:56:03 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 12, 2020, 02:37:19 PM

Still feels extreme, a lot of kids depend on school meal programs, etc

My town has closed schools & is making box lunches available to kids -- I guess it is similar to what they do in the summer months. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on March 13, 2020, 07:36:45 AM

I see the ODH Director's statement that 100,000 have it in Ohio is getting some national attention.  While I do admit to having some doubts about her statement - and particularly how definitively she presented it - I also note that if she's correct that he existence of seeing community spread means that "at least 1%, at the very least 1% of our population" is carrying the virus..." then the fatality rate is not nearly as high as many of the estimates. By her theory, somewhere in the neighborhood of 3.3 million have been infected in the US. We have had 36 deaths in the US. If 1% of the country is already infected, that would make the mortality rate very, very low -- 0.00001. So, something obviously is off. I suspect she's very high. (*Edited: I suspect her estimate is very high.) Data from everywhere else this has spread shows that there is a death rate considerably higher than the common flu. It would appear that it's somewhere between 0.7% (which is still considerably higher than the flu) and 2 or 3%.  Any estimate of total cases that would suggest a mortality rate that is much lower than the flu is, presumably, a bit off.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on March 13, 2020, 07:49:34 AM

In light of recent events, it's kind of interesting to look back over the early pages of this thread and see some of the hot takes...including my own.

Quote from: StillAWarrior on January 30, 2020, 08:54:12 AM

I guess it depends on what you mean by "concerned".  I am concerned that a lot of people are getting sick and probably many will die.  To me, that's just a natural human concern. I am not particularly concerned that this virus will have a significant impact in the United States. So, if you're asking about the first of those, then yes, I am concerned. If you're asking about the second (which, in my opinion, is what a lot of people are asking), then no, I'm not concerned.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: lawdog77 on March 13, 2020, 07:52:20 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 12, 2020, 10:52:44 PM

Yeah, you dont want to follow the krauts on this one.

not cool

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 13, 2020, 08:43:21 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 13, 2020, 05:01:20 AM

Its really reassuring to see that a lot of people's information and understanding is weeks behind.  That article is two and a half weeks old.  You know, back when Italy had a grand total of 229 cases.

You're going to get it, but the time to trust government responses, and not take precautions, and prepare is well passed.

Once you start reading a bit more, you'll probably agree.

The information these scientists are working from isn't even always related to this particular virus. They're using historical information to help understand the current scenario and future scenarios better. Which is why it's still a very relevant article to help explain why some of the quoted infection rates are so high despite such low numbers today.

It's not like I'm wading through a stack of newspapers in date order here. I just found an article that very clearly helped to answer a question. And that question had nothing to do with appropriate responses, just an explanation for the exponential growth rates that don't make sense with just 120,000 cases globally.

If you want to disregard anything that's more than 72 hours old, that's your prerogative. But I would imagine a lot of people will find that link helpful, even if it's not up to your standards.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 13, 2020, 08:48:50 AM

Wonder why John Hopkins removed places like Iran, Italy, Spain, Germany, and others, from their list and tracking numbers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 13, 2020, 08:58:57 AM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 13, 2020, 07:36:45 AM

I see the ODH Director's statement that 100,000 have it in Ohio is getting some national attention.  While I do admit to having some doubts about her statement - and particularly how definitively she presented it - I also note that if she's correct that he existence of seeing community spread means that "at least 1%, at the very least 1% of our population" is carrying the virus..." then the fatality rate is not nearly as high as many of the estimates. By her theory, somewhere in the neighborhood of 3.3 million have been infected in the US. We have had 36 deaths in the US. If 1% of the country is already infected, that would make the mortality rate very, very low -- 0.00001. So, something obviously is off. I suspect she's very high. (*Edited: I suspect her estimate is very high.) Data from everywhere else this has spread shows that there is a death rate considerably higher than the common flu. It would appear that it's somewhere between 0.7% (which is still considerably higher than the flu) and 2 or 3%.  Any estimate of total cases that would suggest a mortality rate that is much lower than the flu is, presumably, a bit off.

I think the long incubation period complicates the math. If she is correct, the majority or all of those 100K may be asymptomatic right now and if they all become symptomatic around the same time that is pretty problematic (theoretically at 1% fatality that means at least 1,000 critical patients within days of each other)

What I can't get a sense of with stories out of China from a couple of weeks ago and Italy now, how many of the deaths are infrastructure based(the overwhelming of) and how many are "inevitable" because of the disease.

The next 10 days will be interesting because if we say 1M people are currently infected but asymptomatic and the conversion rate from infected to requiring hospitalization is 2% that means 20,000 hiting the hospital systems within a matter of days. If the infection volume is 5M at the same conversion rate its 50,000. If its 1M but a conversion rate of 20% we're talking 200,000.

 So how spread the infection is and what the conversion to hospitalization rate is is critical to whether the US can handle it. And I don't think we really have any idea right now regardless of what the OH health director says.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 13, 2020, 09:12:48 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 13, 2020, 08:58:57 AM

I think the long incubation period complicates the math. If she is correct, the majority or all of those 100K may be asymptomatic right now and if they all become symptomatic around the same time that is pretty problematic (theoretically at 1% fatality that means at least 1,000 critical patients within days of each other)

What I can't get a sense of with stories out of China from a couple of weeks ago and Italy now, how many of the deaths are infrastructure based(the overwhelming of) and how many are "inevitable" because of the disease.

The next 10 days will be interesting because if we say 1M people are currently infected but asymptomatic and the conversion rate from infected to requiring hospitalization is 2% that means 20,000 hiting the hospital systems within a matter of days. If the infection volume is 5M at the same conversion rate its 50,000. If its 1M but a conversion rate of 20% we're talking 200,000.

 So how spread the infection is and what the conversion to hospitalization rate is is critical to whether the US can handle it. And I don't think we really have any idea right now regardless of what the OH health director says.

The individual from Ohio's numbers are criminally inaccurate.

But, I can take a stab at the numbers out of Italy and China (disclosure, I am using conjecture here). Particularly in  China. In Wuhan death rates were comparable to those in Italy, 5-8% fatality rates. Largely dominated by infrastructure. In the rest of China, infrastructure wasn't stressed and the fatality rates were around 0.7%

These will likely represent the upper and lower bounds depending on how much infrastructure is stressed. The lower bound likely drops to 0.5%, which we can estimate from places like Germany that have had no stress on their system yet, but a large number of cases.

I also think the China numbers are accurate. They were going door to door mandatorily testing everyone, regardless of symptoms. They may have missed some cases, but likely on the order of 10% of the total reported cases, so the denominator there is likely reasonably accurate.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 13, 2020, 09:16:38 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 13, 2020, 08:58:57 AM

I think the long incubation period complicates the math. If she is correct, the majority or all of those 100K may be asymptomatic right now and if they all become symptomatic around the same time that is pretty problematic (theoretically at 1% fatality that means at least 1,000 critical patients within days of each other)

Indeed, I was going to say something similar.  Because of the lag between contracting it and showing symptoms, we have no idea what the real number is.  Hers might very well be high, but the actual number is unquestionably much, much higher than have been diagnosed.  Which makes our lack of testing such a clusterunnatural carnal knowledge.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on March 13, 2020, 09:24:53 AM

Quote from: forgetful on March 13, 2020, 09:12:48 AM

...disclosure, I am using conjecture here...

My biggest beef with the statement from the Director of ODH is that she didn't include any sort of similar qualifying language. She very definitively stated that at least 100k are carrying the virus in Ohio today. I find that concerning from the State's top public health official.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 13, 2020, 09:28:37 AM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 13, 2020, 07:49:34 AM

In light of recent events, it's kind of interesting to look back over the early pages of this thread and see some of the hot takes...including my own.

To be fair to yourself and most everyone else, we have been through pandemic scares several times over the past 20-30 years, so it was natural for the "here we go again" attitude to take hold. Part of that is based on real-life experience, and part on wishful thinking (the "bad things like car accidents and cancer happen to other people, but not me" attitude). And hopeful attitudes like that are part of what help us get from one day to the next. After all, if we treated every possible pandemic (H1N1, SARS, MERS, Ebola) the way we have learned to treat this one, we would be so wound up in anxiety that we'd never get anything done.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on March 13, 2020, 09:29:11 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 13, 2020, 09:16:38 AM

Because of the lag between contracting it and showing symptoms, we have no idea what the real number is.  Hers might very well be high, but the actual number is unquestionably much, much higher than have been diagnosed. 

I agree completely. Here is a disturbing article (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/its-just-everywhere-already-how-delays-in-testing-set-back-the-us-coronavirus-response/ar-BB110Ziq?ocid=se2) about how bureaucracy and red-tape slowed testing in Washington.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 13, 2020, 09:35:52 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 13, 2020, 08:58:57 AM

I think the long incubation period complicates the math. If she is correct, the majority or all of those 100K may be asymptomatic right now and if they all become symptomatic around the same time that is pretty problematic (theoretically at 1% fatality that means at least 1,000 critical patients within days of each other)

What I can't get a sense of with stories out of China from a couple of weeks ago and Italy now, how many of the deaths are infrastructure based(the overwhelming of) and how many are "inevitable" because of the disease.

The next 10 days will be interesting because if we say 1M people are currently infected but asymptomatic and the conversion rate from infected to requiring hospitalization is 2% that means 20,000 hiting the hospital systems within a matter of days. If the infection volume is 5M at the same conversion rate its 50,000. If its 1M but a conversion rate of 20% we're talking 200,000.

 So how spread the infection is and what the conversion to hospitalization rate is is critical to whether the US can handle it. And I don't think we really have any idea right now regardless of what the OH health director says.

I still have a hard time thinking that the 1% figure is supported by what we've seen in other countries. Even in the Hubei province where this all started, the reported cases didn't even come close to 1% of the population. The province is about 55 million in population, and even if every reported case in China came from that area (which is obviously an overstatement) that would still only be about 0.2% of the population there.

And if the assumption that confirmed cases isn't really representative of actual cases due to people not showing symptoms or just not getting tested, then I would find that to be pretty reassuring. Ohio has 4 or 5 confirmed cases so far, but the assumption is that a significantly higher number are infected just not confirmed. So let's use Hubei again and assume that 50x or 100x more people were sick than were actually confirmed (conservative compared to Ohio). That's great, right? That significantly lowers the hospitalization and mortality rates.

In all the numbers, the one thing I keep coming back to is that the assumptions being made here in the US are substantially higher than what we've seen globally so far. 1% of Ohio being infected would represent a doubling of all cases globally. Why would Ohio be so much more susceptible to the virus than the rest of the world?

And I'll add the note here that I'm not trying to say I don't believe the experts or that I think this is a fake panic. I just have trouble making sense of the estimates when they seem so different from what we're actually seeing so far. A lot of this is just "thinking out loud" to see if someone can help me understand better or provide another way of thinking.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 13, 2020, 09:37:14 AM

Although I have previously expressed my opinion that CDC.gov is the gold standard for info on the covid-19 situation, I wanted to alert folks to another good source. The NYTimes is providing FREE ACCESS (even for non-subscribers) to its news about the pandemic. Though some may disagree, my experience has been that the NYT is better than most media outlets as providing fact-based, non-sensationalized journalism.

https://www.nytimes.com/news-event/coronavirus?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 13, 2020, 09:51:03 AM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 13, 2020, 09:29:11 AM

I agree completely. Here is a disturbing article (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/its-just-everywhere-already-how-delays-in-testing-set-back-the-us-coronavirus-response/ar-BB110Ziq?ocid=se2) about how bureaucracy and red-tape slowed testing in Washington.

Legitimate concerns about the FDA here.

But FWIW, the FDA is in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" position. If it had given the UW lab the go-ahead without "normal" approval and the error rate turned out to be high (whether false positives or false negatives), they would have been crucified for inappropriately allowing clinical testing through a research lab.

The FDA has reason to be worried about toeing the line. In another of its functions (drug approval), it constantly walks a line between getting drugs to market faster (at the urging of the pharmaceutical industry, and often patient advocacy groups desperate for cures), vs taking more time to be relatively sure they provide more benefit than harm. And they have been stung many times over the years for letting a drug get to market too quickly, only to have to rescind its approval after it hurt or killed many people. For some good examples, look up Accutane, Baycol, Bextra, Nuplazid and Uloric.

Like I said, damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on March 13, 2020, 09:56:58 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 13, 2020, 09:51:03 AM

Legitimate concerns about the FDA here.

But FWIW, the FDA is in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" position. If it had given the UW lab the go-ahead without "normal" approval and the error rate turned out to be high (whether false positives or false negatives), they would have been crucified for inappropriately allowing clinical testing through a research lab.

The FDA has reason to be worried about toeing the line. In another of its functions (drug approval), it constantly walks a line between getting drugs to market faster (at the urging of the pharmaceutical industry, and often patient advocacy groups desperate for cures), vs taking more time to be relatively sure they provide more benefit than harm. And they have been stung many times over the years for letting a drug get to market too quickly, only to have to rescind its approval after it hurt or killed many people. For some good examples, look up Accutane, Baycol, Bextra, Nuplazid and Uloric.

Like I said, damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Very true. None of this is easy.

Along similar lines...

Listening to a podcast earlier this week with a leading infectious disease expert. Essentially he said, "developing a vaccine for this is simple...we could do that over night. Making sure it is effective and safe takes time, and there really is no way to speed that up too much."

In case anyone is interested.  Head to 1:30:15 for specific discussion.

In case anyone is interested (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3URhJx0NSw).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 13, 2020, 09:58:35 AM

As an aside .. the UK health minister said they have 459 cases, but they believe they are off by a factor of 10-20x.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 13, 2020, 10:37:23 AM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 13, 2020, 07:36:45 AM

I see the ODH Director's statement that 100,000 have it in Ohio is getting some national attention.  While I do admit to having some doubts about her statement - and particularly how definitively she presented it - I also note that if she's correct that he existence of seeing community spread means that "at least 1%, at the very least 1% of our population" is carrying the virus..." then the fatality rate is not nearly as high as many of the estimates. By her theory, somewhere in the neighborhood of 3.3 million have been infected in the US. We have had 36 deaths in the US. If 1% of the country is already infected, that would make the mortality rate very, very low -- 0.00001. So, something obviously is off. I suspect she's very high. (*Edited: I suspect her estimate is very high.) Data from everywhere else this has spread shows that there is a death rate considerably higher than the common flu. It would appear that it's somewhere between 0.7% (which is still considerably higher than the flu) and 2 or 3%.  Any estimate of total cases that would suggest a mortality rate that is much lower than the flu is, presumably, a bit off.

Problem with that sort of reasoning is people don't die the second they get the disease.  Its progresses over a week or two.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on March 13, 2020, 10:39:43 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 13, 2020, 09:58:35 AM

As an aside .. the UK health minister said they have 459 cases, but they believe they are off by a factor of 10-20x.

If you told me that Ohio has 50-100 cases (10-20x what is reported), I wouldn't bat an eyelash and would suspect you were low. Hell, if you told me Ohio has 500-1000 cases, I wouldn't be overly critical of that estimate. As I've said already, what surprised me was the State's top health official stating definitively that we are off by a factor of 20,000x.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 13, 2020, 10:44:22 AM

For those looking for other sites tracking data. This one is pretty good.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-incubation-period/

The link is specifically for incubation period, but at the top you can access a lot of other data, including country by country specific data.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on March 13, 2020, 10:46:05 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 13, 2020, 10:37:23 AM

Problem with that sort of reasoning is people don't die the second they get the disease.  Its progresses over a week or two.

Of course. But give it a week or two. Do you honestly believe their will be 1,000 deaths in Ohio within "a week or two"? I don't.  Good Lord, I certainly hope not. By all accounts, Italy - with a population of 60 million - is a mess right now and they have just barely over 1,000 deaths as of today.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 13, 2020, 10:54:02 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 13, 2020, 09:28:37 AM

To be fair to yourself and most everyone else, we have been through pandemic scares several times over the past 20-30 years, so it was natural for the "here we go again" attitude to take hold. Part of that is based on real-life experience, and part on wishful thinking (the "bad things like car accidents and cancer happen to other people, but not me" attitude). And hopeful attitudes like that are part of what help us get from one day to the next. After all, if we treated every possible pandemic (H1N1, SARS, MERS, Ebola) the way we have learned to treat this one, we would be so wound up in anxiety that we'd never get anything done.

I would also add that this occurring in an election year made things much worse IMO. The political and media based finger pointing and spinning has really slowed the public's ability to understand what is going on and react in a collaborative way. Even know every story has a who's to blame, what went wrong, etc....and I know its fantastical think but I would love to see a refocus on here and now, what do we need to do now and leave the recriminations until the worst is passed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 13, 2020, 11:15:54 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 13, 2020, 10:54:02 AM

I would also add that this occurring in an election year made things much worse IMO. The political and media based finger pointing and spinning has really slowed the public's ability to understand what is going on and react in a collaborative way. Even know every story has a who's to blame, what went wrong, etc....and I know its fantastical think but I would love to see a refocus on here and now, what do we need to do now and leave the recriminations until the worst is passed.

This is one of those rare times that I disagree with you, Eng, but, sad to say, finger pointing is absolutely necessary. We have zero leadership in this crisis and have reacted to it worse than every single industrialized country in the world.

Tests are "available" for anyone who wants one, yet people cannot get tested. And as if that isn't bad enough, the leadership has been the single biggest reason for the Stock Market crash with their lies and incompetence.

We need to finger-point more as that seems to be the ONLY way for our leaders to be goaded into taking even the most basics actions.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 13, 2020, 11:20:48 AM

I have to say this guy has really stepped up.

 https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/487425-top-health-official-fauci-coronavirus-crisis-could-last-8-weeks (https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/487425-top-health-official-fauci-coronavirus-crisis-could-last-8-weeks)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 13, 2020, 11:25:19 AM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 13, 2020, 10:46:05 AM

Of course. But give it a week or two. Do you honestly believe their will be 1,000 deaths in Ohio within "a week or two"? I don't.  Good Lord, I certainly hope not. By all accounts, Italy - with a population of 60 million - is a mess right now and they have just barely over 1,000 deaths as of today.

I hope not too.  Lockdown would give me some additional confidence.  Not just canceled schools.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 13, 2020, 11:28:51 AM

Quote from: Jockey on March 13, 2020, 11:15:54 AM

This is one of those rare times that I disagree with you, Eng, but, sad to say, finger pointing is absolutely necessary. We have zero leadership in this crisis and have reacted to it worse than every single industrialized country in the world.

Tests are "available" for anyone who wants one, yet people cannot get tested. And as if that isn't bad enough, the leadership has been the single biggest reason for the Stock Market crash with their lies and incompetence.

We need to finger-point more as that seems to be the ONLY way for our leaders to be goaded into taking even the most basics actions.

It's a fair argument to make, and while I agree we have a systemic leadership failure I also no that dude up top has preconditioned folks to disbelieve info from the media and any appearance of politicization gives that crackpot judo move more power. Deal in facts, predictions, and gaps....leave the recriminations for a time when we can actually focus on them. Just my opinion.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 13, 2020, 11:41:27 AM

Chinese billionaire Jack Ma donating 500,000 test kits to U.S. and over 1 million masks. Previously U.S. had 14k test kits. (He's also donating to other countries)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 13, 2020, 11:49:53 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 13, 2020, 11:41:27 AM

Chinese billionaire Jack Ma donating 500,000 test kits to U.S. and over 1 million masks. Previously U.S. had 14k test kits. (He's also donating to other countries)

Nice!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: lawdog77 on March 13, 2020, 11:56:14 AM

Rumor is Trump is going to order a national shutdown today at a press conference at 3.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on March 13, 2020, 12:00:51 PM

My little school districts in northern, rural Illinois are shutting down.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 13, 2020, 12:02:34 PM

Quote from: lawdog77 on March 13, 2020, 11:56:14 AM

Rumor is Trump is going to order a national shutdown today at a press conference at 3.

Doesn't seem to be the case.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/13/politics/donald-trump-emergency/index.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 13, 2020, 12:03:39 PM

Quote from: Retire0 on March 13, 2020, 12:00:51 PM

My little school districts in northern, rural Illinois are shutting down.

Most of suburban school districts are shutting down, as are all Archdiocese of Chicago schools.
I imagine they'll all be closed by the end of the day.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Chili on March 13, 2020, 12:06:33 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 13, 2020, 12:03:39 PM

Most of suburban school districts are shutting down, as are all Archdiocese of Chicago schools.
I imagine they'll all be closed by the end of the day.

CTU is demanding CPS shutdown.

LA school district just shut down.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 13, 2020, 12:07:03 PM

My wife works in the Rochester Public Schools, and learned yesterday that they are having a mandatory all-staff meeting today after school. Hmmmm...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on March 13, 2020, 12:29:54 PM

I don't know if it's a sense of invincibility, willful ignorance or just plain ol' American stupidity, but a lot of people have their heads in the sand on this... honestly, very few Americans understand what is actually going on here, and it has nothing to do with politics, the media, etc.  People are going to read and believe whoever or whatever suits them, but there are certain Covid-19 facts that are not in dispute here:

1) The incubation period seems to average ~5 days but the range is 2 to 14 days.  IOW, you could be infected for up to two weeks and not even know it.
2) Some people who are infected are asymptomatic.
3) The virus can be shed by people who are asymptomatic, i.e. you can be infected via exposure to someone who is asymptomatic.
4) The virus does not immediately deactivate upon coming in contact with a non-host surface.

So think about how many people you came into contact with 5 days ago, and how many people with whom you've come into contact since then.  Then think about all of the people those people came into contact.  And those people and those people.

On average, do we come into contact with 20 people/day?  Fifty?  Five?  One?

As a hypothetical, I was at the Bucks game last week... I probably came within six feet of at least 200 people, maybe more.  I was fortunate enough to have a pass to the BMO Club, so I also was touching serving spoons at the buffet (that we also being touched by others), so add another 200-300 that I might have "touched."  So if just one out of those 500 were infected, there's a pretty good chance I was exposed to the virus.  I take it home, and now 9 days later, I start exhibiting symptoms, so I go into self-quarantine... but in the last 9 days: I also went to mass, and even though there was no contact, I was still within six feet of 5 other people.  But then my three kids, who are now asymptomatic carriers have taken it to school and exposed another 20 kids each directly, and maybe another 50 (total) through surface touching.  Don't forget my son's volleyball game, so another 10-15 there as well.  And then there's my wife, also an asymptomatic carrier by now, who rides the Metra every day... conservatively, let's say that's another 500, but then 10% of her coworkers are exposed, so another 40.

In the 9 days between infection and symptoms, my family and I have potentially exposed - but not necessarily infected - almost 700 people.  The question is: how many of those 700 will be infected?  Even if it's 5%, that's still 35 people... each of whom will now spread the virus - asymptomatically - for the next five days to another 35 people.  And then to another 35 people in five days, etc.  The math goes like this:

Day 1: Just Benny
Day 9: 35
Day 14: 1,225
Day 19: 42,875
Day 24: 1,500,625

In just over three weeks, 1.5M have been infected by me, of which 1,457,750 aren't exhibiting any symptoms.  But let's say I'm off by a factor of 10x... that's still 145,000. 

Now, if I was at the Bucks game on 2/19 instead... today is Day 24.  The population of Ohio is 11.6M and 1% of that is 116,000 people.

True?  No.

Plausible?  Yes.  And that's where the problem lies... most people don't quite understand what we could be facing here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on March 13, 2020, 12:31:07 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 13, 2020, 11:25:19 AM

I hope not too.  Lockdown would give me some additional confidence.  Not just canceled schools.

I don't intend to be argumentative here, but I note that you didn't answer the question. While I believe you have, at times, moved closer to the panic line than I think is necessary, I give you genuine and sincere respect for standing your ground more than a month ago when a lot of people - including me - thought this was no big deal. I was wrong; you were right. But that doesn't mean that every dire pronouncement is correct. I personally think that the statement that there are 100,000 cases in Ohio at this time is incorrect and is a little irresponsible. If I'm wrong - and that is certainly possible - I'll admit it. And that doesn't mean there won't be 100,000 people infected in Ohio before this is all said and done.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Eldon on March 13, 2020, 12:31:27 PM

Notes from a recent (3/10) UCSF panel:

•   Top takeaways
o   At this point, we are past containment.  Containment is basically futile.  Our containment efforts won’t reduce the number who get infected in the US. 
o   Now we’re just trying to slow the spread, to help healthcare providers deal with the demand peak.  In other words, the goal of containment is to "flatten the curve", to lower the peak of the surge of demand that will hit healthcare providers.  And to buy time, in hopes a drug can be developed.
o   How many in the community already have the virus?  No one knows.
o   We are moving from containment to care. 
o   We in the US are currently where Italy was a week ago.  We see nothing to say we will be substantially different.
o   40-70% of the US population will be infected over the next 12-18 months.  After that level you can start to get herd immunity.  Unlike flu this is entirely novel to humans, so there is no latent immunity in the global population.
o   [We used their numbers to work out a guesstimate of deaths— indicating about 1.5 million Americans may die.  The panelists did not disagree with our estimate.  This compares to seasonal flu’s average of 50K Americans per year.  Assume 50% of US population, that’s 160M people infected.  With 1% mortality rate that's 1.6M Americans die over the next 12-18 months.] 
   The fatality rate is in the range of 10X flu.
   This assumes no drug is found effective and made available.
o   The death rate varies hugely by age.  Over age 80 the mortality rate could be 10-15%.  [See chart by age Signe found online, attached at bottom.] 
o   Don’t know whether COVID-19 is seasonal but if is and subsides over the summer, it is likely to roar back in fall as the 1918 flu did
o   I can only tell you two things definitively.  Definitively it’s going to get worse before it gets better.  And we'll be dealing with this for the next year at least.  Our lives are going to look different for the next year.
 
•   What should we do now?  What are you doing for your family?
o   Appears one can be infectious before being symptomatic.  We don’t know how infectious before symptomatic, but know that highest level of virus prevalence coincides with symptoms.  We currently think folks are infectious 2 days before through 14 days after onset of symptoms (T-2 to T+14 onset).
o   How long does the virus last?
   On surfaces, best guess is 4-20 hours depending on surface type (maybe a few days) but still no consensus on this
   The virus is very susceptible to common anti-bacterial cleaning agents:  bleach, hydrogen peroxide, alcohol-based.
o   Avoid concerts, movies, crowded places.
o   We have cancelled business travel. 
o   Do the basic hygiene, eg hand washing and avoiding touching face.
o   Stockpile your critical prescription medications.  Many pharma supply chains run through China.  Pharma companies usually hold 2-3 months of raw materials, so may run out given the disruption in China’s manufacturing.
o   Pneumonia shot might be helpful.  Not preventative of COVID-19, but reduces your chance of being weakened, which makes COVID-19 more dangerous.
o   Get a flu shot next fall.  Not preventative of COVID-19, but reduces your chance of being weakened, which makes COVID-19 more dangerous.
o   We would say “Anyone over 60 stay at home unless it’s critical”.  CDC toyed with idea of saying anyone over 60 not travel on commercial airlines.
o   We at UCSF are moving our “at-risk” parents back from nursing homes, etc. to their own homes.  Then are not letting them out of the house.  The other members of the family are washing hands the moment they come in.
o   Three routes of infection
   Hand to mouth / face
   Aerosol transmission
   Fecal oral route
 
 
•   What if someone is sick?
o   If someone gets sick, have them stay home and socially isolate.  There is very little you can do at a hospital that you couldn’t do at home.  Most cases are mild.  But if they are old or have lung or cardio-vascular problems, read on.
o   If someone gets quite sick who is old (70+) or with lung or cardio-vascular problems, take them to the ER.
o   There is no accepted treatment for COVID-19.  The hospital will give supportive care (eg IV fluids, oxygen) to help you stay alive while your body fights the disease.  ie to prevent sepsis.
o   If someone gets sick who is high risk (eg is both old and has lung/cardio-vascular problems), you can try to get them enrolled for “compassionate use" of Remdesivir, a drug that is in clinical trial at San Francisco General and UCSF, and in China.  Need to find a doc there in order to ask to enroll.  Remdesivir is an anti-viral from Gilead that showed effectiveness against MERS in primates and is being tried against COVID-19.  If the trials succeed it might be available for next winter as production scales up far faster for drugs than for vaccines.  [More I found online.]
o   Why is the fatality rate much higher for older adults?
   Your immune system declines past age 50
   Fatality rate tracks closely with “co-morbidity”, ie the presence of other conditions that compromise the patient’s hearth, especially respiratory or cardio-vascular illness.  These conditions are higher in older adults.   
   Risk of pneumonia is higher in older adults. 
 
•   What about testing to know if someone has COVID-19? 
o   Bottom line, there is not enough testing capacity to be broadly useful.  Here’s why.
o   Currently, there is no way to determine what a person has other than a PCR test.  No other test can yet distinguish "COVID-19 from flu or from the other dozen respiratory bugs that are circulating”.
o   A Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR) test can detect COVID-19’s RNA.  However they still don’t have confidence in the test’s specificity, ie they don’t know the rate of false negatives.
o   The PCR test requires kits with reagents and requires clinical labs to process the kits.
o   While the kits are becoming available, the lab capacity is not growing. 
o   The leading clinical lab firms, Quest and Labcore have capacity to process 1000 kits per day.  For the nation.
o   Expanding processing capacity takes “time, space, and equipment.”  And certification.   ie it won’t happen soon.
o   UCSF and UCBerkeley have donated their research labs to process kits.  But each has capacity to process only 20-40 kits per day.  And are not clinically certified.
o   Novel test methods are on the horizon, but not here now and won’t be at any scale to be useful for the present danger.
 
•   How well is society preparing for the impact?
o   Local hospitals are adding capacity as we speak.  UCSF’s Parnassus campus has erected “triage tents” in a parking lot.  They have converted a ward to “negative pressure” which is needed to contain the virus.  They are considering re-opening the shuttered Mt Zion facility.
o   If COVID-19 affected children then we would be seeing mass departures of families from cities.  But thankfully now we know that kids are not affected.
o   School closures are one the biggest societal impacts.  We need to be thoughtful before we close schools, especially elementary schools because of the knock-on effects.  If elementary kids are not in school then some hospital staff can’t come to work, which decreases hospital capacity at a time of surging demand for hospital services. 
o   Public Health systems are prepared to deal with short-term outbreaks that last for weeks, like an outbreak of meningitis.  They do not have the capacity to sustain for outbreaks that last for months.  Other solutions will have to be found.
o   What will we do to handle behavior changes that can last for months?
   Many employees will need to make accommodations for elderly parents and those with underlying conditions and immune-suppressed.
   Kids home due to school closures
o   [Dr. DeRisi had to leave the meeting for a call with the governor’s office.  When he returned we asked what the call covered.]  The epidemiological models the state is using to track and trigger action.  The state is planning at what point they will take certain actions.  ie what will trigger an order to cease any gatherings of over 1000 people. 
 
•   Where do you find reliable news?
o   The John Hopkins Center for Health Security site.   Which posts daily updates.  The site says you can sign up to receive a daily newsletter on COVID-19 by email.  [I tried and the page times out due to high demand.  After three more tries I was successful in registering for the newsletter.] 
o   The New York Times is good on scientific accuracy.
 
 
•   Observations on China
o   Unlike during SARS, China’s scientists are publishing openly and accurately on COVID-19. 
o   While China’s early reports on incidence were clearly low, that seems to trace to their data management systems being overwhelmed, not to any bad intent.
o   Wuhan has 4.3 beds per thousand while US has 2.8 beds per thousand.  Wuhan built 2 additional hospitals in 2 weeks.  Even so, most patients were sent to gymnasiums to sleep on cots.
o   Early on no one had info on COVID-19.  So China reacted in a way unique modern history, except in wartime. 
 
•   Every few years there seems another:  SARS, Ebola, MERS, H1N1, COVID-19.  Growing strains of antibiotic resistant bacteria.  Are we in the twilight of a century of medicine’s great triumph over infectious disease?
o   "We’ve been in a back and forth battle against viruses for a million years." 
o   But it would sure help if every country would shut down their wet markets. 
o   As with many things, the worst impact of COVID-19 will likely be in the countries with the least resources, eg Africa.  See article on Wired magazine on sequencing of virus from Cambodia.


https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/notes-from-ucsf-expert-panel-march-10-dr-jordan-shlain-m-d-/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: lawdog77 on March 13, 2020, 12:36:16 PM

Its species jumping viruses/diseases.

Is this the next one?
https://www.cdc.gov/prions/cwd/index.html (https://www.cdc.gov/prions/cwd/index.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on March 13, 2020, 12:43:42 PM

Quote from: Benny B on March 13, 2020, 12:29:54 PM

I don't know if it's a sense of invincibility, willful ignorance or just plain ol' American stupidity, but a lot of people have their heads in the sand on this... honestly, very few Americans understand what is actually going on here, and it has nothing to do with politics, the media, etc.  People are going to read and believe whoever or whatever suits them, but there are certain Covid-19 facts that are not in dispute here:

1) The incubation period seems to average ~5 days but the range is 2 to 14 days.  IOW, you could be infected for up to two weeks and not even know it.
2) Some people who are infected are asymptomatic.
3) The virus can be shed by people who are asymptomatic, i.e. you can be infected via exposure to someone who is asymptomatic.
4) The virus does not immediately deactivate upon coming in contact with a non-host surface.

So think about how many people you came into contact with 5 days ago, and how many people with whom you've come into contact since then.  Then think about all of the people those people came into contact.  And those people and those people.

On average, do we come into contact with 20 people/day?  Fifty?  Five?  One?

As a hypothetical, I was at the Bucks game last week... I probably came within six feet of at least 200 people, maybe more.  I was fortunate enough to have a pass to the BMO Club, so I also was touching serving spoons at the buffet (that we also being touched by others), so add another 200-300 that I might have "touched."  So if just one out of those 500 were infected, there's a pretty good chance I was exposed to the virus.  I take it home, and now 9 days later, I start exhibiting symptoms, so I go into self-quarantine... but in the last 9 days: I also went to mass, and even though there was no contact, I was still within six feet of 5 other people.  But then my three kids, who are now asymptomatic carriers have taken it to school and exposed another 20 kids each directly, and maybe another 50 (total) through surface touching.  Don't forget my son's volleyball game, so another 10-15 there as well.  And then there's my wife, also an asymptomatic carrier by now, who rides the Metra every day... conservatively, let's say that's another 500, but then 10% of her coworkers are exposed, so another 40.

In the 9 days between infection and symptoms, my family and I have potentially exposed - but not necessarily infected - almost 700 people.  The question is: how many of those 700 will be infected?  Even if it's 5%, that's still 35 people... each of whom will now spread the virus - asymptomatically - for the next five days to another 35 people.  And then to another 35 people in five days, etc.  The math goes like this:

Day 1: Just Benny
Day 9: 35
Day 14: 1,225
Day 19: 42,875
Day 24: 1,500,625

In just over three weeks, 1.5M have been infected by me, of which 1,457,750 aren't exhibiting any symptoms.  But let's say I'm off by a factor of 10x... that's still 145,000. 

Now, if I was at the Bucks game on 2/19 instead... today is Day 24.  The population of Ohio is 11.6M and 1% of that is 116,000 people.

True?  No.

Plausible?  Yes.  And that's where the problem lies... most people don't quite understand what we could be facing here.

I suppose this is, at least in part, directed at me because I raised and have discussed the Ohio number.  I would be far more comfortable if the head of ODH would have said that it is "plausible" that 100,000 are infected. Keep in mind that if 100,000 are infected, you need to perform your calculation for every single one of them. What number does that give you? Does it take you beyond the total population of Ohio? Of the United States?

For my work and due to personal interest, I have read an awful lot about this in last week to ten days. I've come around from being largely skeptical to recognizing that this is a very serious situation. In my own personal circles, I'm certainly way  on the "this is a huge deal" end of the spectrum. I just believe that as of yesterday, when the statement was made, it is extremely unlikely that 100,000 were infected in Ohio. Is it possible? I suppose it is.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 13, 2020, 12:50:17 PM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 13, 2020, 12:31:07 PM

I don't intend to be argumentative here, but I note that you didn't answer the question. While I believe you have, at times, moved closer to the panic line than I think is necessary, I give you genuine and sincere respect for standing your ground more than a month ago when a lot of people - including me - thought this was no big deal. I was wrong; you were right. But that doesn't mean that every dire pronouncement is correct. I personally think that the statement that there are 100,000 cases in Ohio at this time is incorrect and is a little irresponsible. If I'm wrong - and that is certainly possible - I'll admit it. And that doesn't mean there won't be 100,000 people infected in Ohio before this is all said and done.

For the record, I don't want to estimate individual state numbers since I don't have any information.  Having said that, I am with forgetful on this.  Numbers seem way too high to be real.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 13, 2020, 12:55:54 PM

Here's what I don't get. China was basically able to stem the outbreak after what was a very scary start. Why is it so implausible that we could do the same thing?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 13, 2020, 12:57:50 PM

Quote from: Benny B on March 13, 2020, 12:29:54 PM

Day 1: Just Benny
Day 9: 35
Day 14: 1,225
Day 19: 42,875
Day 24: 1,500,625

In just over three weeks, 1.5M have been infected by me, of which 1,457,750 aren't exhibiting any symptoms.  But let's say I'm off by a factor of 10x... that's still 145,000. 

Now, if I was at the Bucks game on 2/19 instead... today is Day 24.  The population of Ohio is 11.6M and 1% of that is 116,000 people.

True?  No.

Plausible?  Yes.  And that's where the problem lies... most people don't quite understand what we could be facing here.

My sticking point that has yet to really be answered is - if your scenario were actually plausible, then why are there only 120,000 cases globally right now? Why have only a handful of areas around the world had high concentrations of infection? I do understand that we aren't testing enough, so that keeps the confirmed cases down in the US. But if your scenario (which has been repeated by many people) were anywhere near the reality we're facing, then areas with better testing, like South Korea, would have enormous numbers of reported cases. We're just not seeing that.

I can't get past the disconnect between all the hypotheticals and the actuals. They're just way too different to make sense of for me.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 13, 2020, 01:02:08 PM

Quote from: Coleman on March 13, 2020, 12:55:54 PM

Here's what I don't get. China was basically able to stem the outbreak after what was a very scary start. Why is it so implausible that we could do the same thing?

Cultural differences.  Americans are more independent and distrustful of government.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 13, 2020, 01:11:11 PM

Quote from: Eldon on March 13, 2020, 12:31:27 PM

Notes from a recent (3/10) UCSF panel:

o   How many in the community already have the virus?  No one knows.
o   We in the US are currently where Italy was a week ago.  We see nothing to say we will be substantially different.
o   40-70% of the US population will be infected over the next 12-18 months.  After that level you can start to get herd immunity.  Unlike flu this is entirely novel to humans, so there is no latent immunity in the global population.
o   [We used their numbers to work out a guesstimate of deaths— indicating about 1.5 million Americans may die.  The panelists did not disagree with our estimate.  This compares to seasonal flu’s average of 50K Americans per year.  Assume 50% of US population, that’s 160M people infected.  With 1% mortality rate that's 1.6M Americans die over the next 12-18 months.] 
   The fatality rate is in the range of 10X flu.

It sounds like you've dug into this quite a bit, so maybe you can help me with some questions.


- Right now 0.025% of Italy's population is infected, according to the reported cases. In China, the reported cases represent 0.006% of the population. Why do experts assume the worse scenario as the baseline for the US? Why wouldn't Italy be viewed as an extreme?

- If the spread is expected to be so rampant, and current actual cases are assumed to be substantially higher than confirmed cases, why are future mortality rates based off current confirmed cases? This seems to be a vast over-estimate. Why not adjust the denominator?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on March 13, 2020, 01:13:04 PM

Quote from: Coleman on March 13, 2020, 12:55:54 PM

Here's what I don't get. China was basically able to stem the outbreak after what was a very scary start. Why is it so implausible that we could do the same thing?

I also found this explanation of containment in China vs the US very illuminating. WARNING its a Rachel Maddow interview with the NYT Science and Health reporter, so if for you that invalidates this discussion from the jump, just don't click.
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3gCbkeARbY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3gCbkeARbY).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on March 13, 2020, 01:13:39 PM

Quote from: Coleman on March 13, 2020, 12:55:54 PM

Here's what I don't get. China was basically able to stem the outbreak after what was a very scary start. Why is it so implausible that we could do the same thing?

Largely because self-centered jerks like me insist on going out to dinner with my wife and daughters.

Only kind-of kidding. Although I think I'm buying into/supporting the social distancing concept much more than many I know.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 13, 2020, 01:17:53 PM

Quote from: Eldon on March 13, 2020, 12:31:27 PM

Notes from a recent (3/10) UCSF panel:

•   Top takeaways
o   At this point, we are past containment.  Containment is basically futile.  Our containment efforts won’t reduce the number who get infected in the US. 
o   Now we’re just trying to slow the spread, to help healthcare providers deal with the demand peak.  In other words, the goal of containment is to "flatten the curve", to lower the peak of the surge of demand that will hit healthcare providers.  And to buy time, in hopes a drug can be developed.
o   How many in the community already have the virus?  No one knows.
o   We are moving from containment to care. 
o   We in the US are currently where Italy was a week ago.  We see nothing to say we will be substantially different.
o   40-70% of the US population will be infected over the next 12-18 months.  After that level you can start to get herd immunity.  Unlike flu this is entirely novel to humans, so there is no latent immunity in the global population.
o   [We used their numbers to work out a guesstimate of deaths— indicating about 1.5 million Americans may die.  The panelists did not disagree with our estimate.  This compares to seasonal flu’s average of 50K Americans per year.  Assume 50% of US population, that’s 160M people infected.  With 1% mortality rate that's 1.6M Americans die over the next 12-18 months.] 
   The fatality rate is in the range of 10X flu.
   This assumes no drug is found effective and made available.
o   The death rate varies hugely by age.  Over age 80 the mortality rate could be 10-15%.  [See chart by age Signe found online, attached at bottom.] 
o   Don’t know whether COVID-19 is seasonal but if is and subsides over the summer, it is likely to roar back in fall as the 1918 flu did
o   I can only tell you two things definitively.  Definitively it’s going to get worse before it gets better.  And we'll be dealing with this for the next year at least.  Our lives are going to look different for the next year.
 
•   What should we do now?  What are you doing for your family?
o   Appears one can be infectious before being symptomatic.  We don’t know how infectious before symptomatic, but know that highest level of virus prevalence coincides with symptoms.  We currently think folks are infectious 2 days before through 14 days after onset of symptoms (T-2 to T+14 onset).
o   How long does the virus last?
   On surfaces, best guess is 4-20 hours depending on surface type (maybe a few days) but still no consensus on this
   The virus is very susceptible to common anti-bacterial cleaning agents:  bleach, hydrogen peroxide, alcohol-based.
o   Avoid concerts, movies, crowded places.
o   We have cancelled business travel. 
o   Do the basic hygiene, eg hand washing and avoiding touching face.
o   Stockpile your critical prescription medications.  Many pharma supply chains run through China.  Pharma companies usually hold 2-3 months of raw materials, so may run out given the disruption in China’s manufacturing.
o   Pneumonia shot might be helpful.  Not preventative of COVID-19, but reduces your chance of being weakened, which makes COVID-19 more dangerous.
o   Get a flu shot next fall.  Not preventative of COVID-19, but reduces your chance of being weakened, which makes COVID-19 more dangerous.
o   We would say “Anyone over 60 stay at home unless it’s critical”.  CDC toyed with idea of saying anyone over 60 not travel on commercial airlines.
o   We at UCSF are moving our “at-risk” parents back from nursing homes, etc. to their own homes.  Then are not letting them out of the house.  The other members of the family are washing hands the moment they come in.
o   Three routes of infection
   Hand to mouth / face
   Aerosol transmission
   Fecal oral route
 
 
•   What if someone is sick?
o   If someone gets sick, have them stay home and socially isolate.  There is very little you can do at a hospital that you couldn’t do at home.  Most cases are mild.  But if they are old or have lung or cardio-vascular problems, read on.
o   If someone gets quite sick who is old (70+) or with lung or cardio-vascular problems, take them to the ER.
o   There is no accepted treatment for COVID-19.  The hospital will give supportive care (eg IV fluids, oxygen) to help you stay alive while your body fights the disease.  ie to prevent sepsis.
o   If someone gets sick who is high risk (eg is both old and has lung/cardio-vascular problems), you can try to get them enrolled for “compassionate use" of Remdesivir, a drug that is in clinical trial at San Francisco General and UCSF, and in China.  Need to find a doc there in order to ask to enroll.  Remdesivir is an anti-viral from Gilead that showed effectiveness against MERS in primates and is being tried against COVID-19.  If the trials succeed it might be available for next winter as production scales up far faster for drugs than for vaccines.  [More I found online.]
o   Why is the fatality rate much higher for older adults?
   Your immune system declines past age 50
   Fatality rate tracks closely with “co-morbidity”, ie the presence of other conditions that compromise the patient’s hearth, especially respiratory or cardio-vascular illness.  These conditions are higher in older adults.   
   Risk of pneumonia is higher in older adults. 
 
•   What about testing to know if someone has COVID-19? 
o   Bottom line, there is not enough testing capacity to be broadly useful.  Here’s why.
o   Currently, there is no way to determine what a person has other than a PCR test.  No other test can yet distinguish "COVID-19 from flu or from the other dozen respiratory bugs that are circulating”.
o   A Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR) test can detect COVID-19’s RNA.  However they still don’t have confidence in the test’s specificity, ie they don’t know the rate of false negatives.
o   The PCR test requires kits with reagents and requires clinical labs to process the kits.
o   While the kits are becoming available, the lab capacity is not growing. 
o   The leading clinical lab firms, Quest and Labcore have capacity to process 1000 kits per day.  For the nation.
o   Expanding processing capacity takes “time, space, and equipment.”  And certification.   ie it won’t happen soon.
o   UCSF and UCBerkeley have donated their research labs to process kits.  But each has capacity to process only 20-40 kits per day.  And are not clinically certified.
o   Novel test methods are on the horizon, but not here now and won’t be at any scale to be useful for the present danger.
 
•   How well is society preparing for the impact?
o   Local hospitals are adding capacity as we speak.  UCSF’s Parnassus campus has erected “triage tents” in a parking lot.  They have converted a ward to “negative pressure” which is needed to contain the virus.  They are considering re-opening the shuttered Mt Zion facility.
o   If COVID-19 affected children then we would be seeing mass departures of families from cities.  But thankfully now we know that kids are not affected.
o   School closures are one the biggest societal impacts.  We need to be thoughtful before we close schools, especially elementary schools because of the knock-on effects.  If elementary kids are not in school then some hospital staff can’t come to work, which decreases hospital capacity at a time of surging demand for hospital services. 
o   Public Health systems are prepared to deal with short-term outbreaks that last for weeks, like an outbreak of meningitis.  They do not have the capacity to sustain for outbreaks that last for months.  Other solutions will have to be found.
o   What will we do to handle behavior changes that can last for months?
   Many employees will need to make accommodations for elderly parents and those with underlying conditions and immune-suppressed.
   Kids home due to school closures
o   [Dr. DeRisi had to leave the meeting for a call with the governor’s office.  When he returned we asked what the call covered.]  The epidemiological models the state is using to track and trigger action.  The state is planning at what point they will take certain actions.  ie what will trigger an order to cease any gatherings of over 1000 people. 
 
•   Where do you find reliable news?
o   The John Hopkins Center for Health Security site.   Which posts daily updates.  The site says you can sign up to receive a daily newsletter on COVID-19 by email.  [I tried and the page times out due to high demand.  After three more tries I was successful in registering for the newsletter.] 
o   The New York Times is good on scientific accuracy.
 
 
•   Observations on China
o   Unlike during SARS, China’s scientists are publishing openly and accurately on COVID-19. 
o   While China’s early reports on incidence were clearly low, that seems to trace to their data management systems being overwhelmed, not to any bad intent.
o   Wuhan has 4.3 beds per thousand while US has 2.8 beds per thousand.  Wuhan built 2 additional hospitals in 2 weeks.  Even so, most patients were sent to gymnasiums to sleep on cots.
o   Early on no one had info on COVID-19.  So China reacted in a way unique modern history, except in wartime. 
 
•   Every few years there seems another:  SARS, Ebola, MERS, H1N1, COVID-19.  Growing strains of antibiotic resistant bacteria.  Are we in the twilight of a century of medicine’s great triumph over infectious disease?
o   "We’ve been in a back and forth battle against viruses for a million years." 
o   But it would sure help if every country would shut down their wet markets. 
o   As with many things, the worst impact of COVID-19 will likely be in the countries with the least resources, eg Africa.  See article on Wired magazine on sequencing of virus from Cambodia.


https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/notes-from-ucsf-expert-panel-march-10-dr-jordan-shlain-m-d-/

This is really good stuff. Thank you for posting it. The one thing that popped out to me is the definitive statement that children are not impacted by Covid-19. Three reasons, hope for my kids, I thought we'd heard of a few cases in kids/teenagers....maybe not?, and if kids are off the table how does that change the numbers? So if the US is 330M, how many are kids and does that impact the worst case scenario.


Seems like next Friday or so is when the fit will hit the shan potentially.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 13, 2020, 01:24:38 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 13, 2020, 01:11:11 PM

It sounds like you've dug into this quite a bit, so maybe you can help me with some questions.


- Right now 0.025% of Italy's population is infected, according to the reported cases. In China, the reported cases represent 0.006% of the population. Why do experts assume the worse scenario as the baseline for the US? Why wouldn't Italy be viewed as an extreme?

- If the spread is expected to be so rampant, and current actual cases are assumed to be substantially higher than confirmed cases, why are future mortality rates based off current confirmed cases? This seems to be a vast over-estimate. Why not adjust the denominator?

The issue boils down to testing.  There is a zero point zero chance that China tested everyone in their country who was suspected of having Covid-19.   There are tests now, but there weren't in the first stages.  Confirmed cases do not equal total cases.  Mild symptoms probably never got tested.  They just locked it all down because they're the CCP and can do that without a rebellion.  I'm sure post lockdown, they tested the people who came into hospitals very sick and counted them... but the family members at home are not confirmed cases.

Capacity of health care systems is generally the reason the numbers are lower than they should be.  Its also why South Korea is testing like crazy and following up on positive results.  Both China and SK figured out how to deal with this.  Right now Italy is early stage Wuhan with more knowledge.  We are going to look like Italy next week or the week after.  I'd prefer to be more like SK, but I think the month and a half of governmental dithering and denial put that behind us two weeks ago.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 13, 2020, 01:34:21 PM

Quote from: MUBurrow on March 13, 2020, 01:13:04 PM

I also found this explanation of containment in China vs the US very illuminating.

Super interesting.  I had heard about the fever clinics, had no idea everyone got a CT scan.  Just wouldn't happen here with our healthcare system.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 13, 2020, 01:36:19 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 13, 2020, 01:24:38 PM

The issue boils down to testing.  There is a zero point zero chance that China tested everyone in their country who was suspected of having Covid-19.   There are tests now, but there weren't in the first stages.  Confirmed cases do not equal total cases.  Mild symptoms probably never got tested.  They just locked it all down because they're the CCP and can do that without a rebellion.  I'm sure post lockdown, they tested the people who came into hospitals very sick and counted them... but the family members at home are not confirmed cases.

Capacity of health care systems is generally the reason the numbers are lower than they should be.  Its also why South Korea is testing like crazy and following up on positive results.  Both China and SK figured out how to deal with this.  Right now Italy is early stage Wuhan with more knowledge.  We are going to look like Italy next week or the week after.  I'd prefer to be more like SK, but I think the month and a half of governmental dithering and denial put that behind us two weeks ago.

I agree with most of what you said, but it still leaves me with the same questions. Why are we assuming the US will be similar to one of the worst scenarios encountered? And why are mortality rates assumed to be so high when we know we near certainty that actual cases far outnumber reported cases?

If anything, your comment seems to be aligned to my thought that there should be some discussion about how to adjust the mortality rate given the issue with the denominator being off by a wide margin.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 13, 2020, 01:39:00 PM

so we take away large groups for 1-2 months how do we know it is safe to go back to going to games/events?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TallTitan34 on March 13, 2020, 01:41:53 PM

Cruise ship filled with elderly Penn State alums and donors and Sue Paterno left dock today.  TODAY!

What could go wrong?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 13, 2020, 01:50:22 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on March 13, 2020, 01:39:00 PM

so we take away large groups for 1-2 months how do we know it is safe to go back to going to games/events?

I think the *hope* with that is after a couple months a few things happen, that we don't have now.
1) A higher percentage of the population will already have had it and built up a short term immunity.
2) Knowing the symptoms and testing will be much more advanced
3) Along with #2, the virus will be much better understood.  This includes potential vaccines and medicines for helping our body handle it.

Now, that may all fail, and we need a few more months of isolation.  But we need to slow the spread now, and figure out if that is enough for a couple months from now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 13, 2020, 01:52:18 PM

I will say this, when the dust settles if we aren't talking about closing all wet markets...with violence if necessary....then imma be really pissed

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 13, 2020, 01:53:28 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 13, 2020, 01:52:18 PM

I will say this, when the dust settles if we aren't talking about closing all wet markets...with violence if necessary....then imma be really pissed

This

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 13, 2020, 01:55:19 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 13, 2020, 01:50:22 PM

I think the *hope* with that is after a couple months a few things happen, that we don't have now.
1) A higher percentage of the population will already have had it and built up a short term immunity.
2) Knowing the symptoms and testing will be much more advanced
3) Along with #2, the virus will be much better understood.  This includes potential vaccines and medicines for helping our body handle it.

Now, that may all fail, and we need a few more months of isolation.  But we need to slow the spread now, and figure out if that is enough for a couple months from now.

After hearing from multiple customers in different parts of China this week, they all indicated that things are almost returned to normal so it sounds like what Rocky said is happening there so could conceivably happen here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 13, 2020, 01:56:03 PM

Well then...

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/marty-makary-on-coronavirus-in-the-us-183558545.html

Quote

According to Dr. Marty Makary, a medical professor at Johns Hopkins University, the coronavirus is something that “people need to take seriously.”

{snip}

“Don’t believe the numbers when you see, even on our Johns Hopkins website, that 1,600 Americans have the virus,” he said. “No, that means 1,600 got the test, tested positive. There are probably 25 to 50 people who have the virus for every one person who is confirmed.”

He added: “I think we have between 50,000 and half a million cases right now walking around in the United States.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 13, 2020, 02:00:33 PM

Not sure about MPS, but nearly every suburban school around Milwaukee is closing for a month, as of end of business today.

My son excitedly emailed me, and I replied (cc'ing his teacher) that he should ask her to really cram a lot of knowledge into the next two hours and skip recess, stay late, like smacking an empty ketchup bottle.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 13, 2020, 02:04:07 PM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 13, 2020, 12:43:42 PM

I suppose this is, at least in part, directed at me because I raised and have discussed the Ohio number.  I would be far more comfortable if the head of ODH would have said that it is "plausible" that 100,000 are infected. Keep in mind that if 100,000 are infected, you need to perform your calculation for every single one of them. What number does that give you? Does it take you beyond the total population of Ohio? Of the United States?

That is why she was irresponsible. The choice of words in a crisis is very important.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 13, 2020, 02:05:39 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 13, 2020, 02:00:33 PM

Not sure about MPS, but nearly every suburban school around Milwaukee is closing for a month, as of end of business today.

My son excitedly emailed me, and I replied (cc'ing his teacher) that he should ask her to really cram a lot of knowledge into the next two hours and skip recess, stay late, like smacking an empty ketchup bottle.

My GF teaches at Bayview and said they intend to keep open. Also they really haven't added any real precautionary measures, sounds like a clusterf*ck

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 13, 2020, 02:11:37 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 13, 2020, 01:56:03 PM

Well then...

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/marty-makary-on-coronavirus-in-the-us-183558545.html

These experts sure hand-wave a lot of their numbers. I find that concerning.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 13, 2020, 02:13:54 PM

$hits getting real, 30 day lock down starting as soon as Monday....Pentagon has been briefed(multiple folks there say so that I know)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 13, 2020, 02:18:26 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 13, 2020, 02:11:37 PM

These experts sure hand-wave a lot of their numbers. I find that concerning.

I agree.  Though it's no much different than the hand waving of "Only 1600 confirmed cases (but only 10k tested)" - both are based on an incomplete data set.  Based on how easily this *appears* to be transmitted, I'm inclined to believe it's a much higher number than we think.  How much higher?  I let the experts guess at that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on March 13, 2020, 02:20:58 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 13, 2020, 01:56:03 PM

Well then...

"Don’t believe the numbers when you see, even on our Johns Hopkins website, that 1,600 Americans have the virus,” he said. “No, that means 1,600 got the test, tested positive. There are probably 25 to 50 people who have the virus for every one person who is confirmed.”

He added: “I think we have between 50,000 and half a million cases right now walking around in the United States.”

To me, while high, those seem believable numbers -- possibly 50,000 to 500,000 in the entire country. As opposed to a definitive statement of at least 100,000 in Ohio.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 13, 2020, 02:31:40 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 13, 2020, 02:13:54 PM

$hits getting real, 30 day lock down starting as soon as Monday....Pentagon has been briefed(multiple folks there say so that I know)

Source on the lockdown? What does that entail

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on March 13, 2020, 02:33:23 PM

National emergency - Trump

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 13, 2020, 02:38:00 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 13, 2020, 02:18:26 PM

I agree.  Though it's no much different than the hand waving of "Only 1600 confirmed cases (but only 10k tested)" - both are based on an incomplete data set.  Based on how easily this *appears* to be transmitted, I'm inclined to believe it's a much higher number than we think.  How much higher?  I let the experts guess at that.

Here's my hot take that I've more or less been alluding to with all my comments/questions - the math from the experts is awful.

I agree that the number of confirmed cases is not really a very good proxy for actual cases. So when we talk total cases as opposed to confirmed cases, I don't mind when they use big multipliers since we're more or less accepting that a huge percentage of those infected will have such mild symptoms that they'll barely notice. So being wrong on the number infected really doesn't matter too much.

My big rub comes from the experts then using only confirmed cases as a the denominator to calculate mortality rates and hospitalization rates. And then applying those admittedly massively overstated rates to predict millions of deaths and the potential collapse of the healthcare system by applying the high rates to extremely high rates of infection.

These are the numbers that are affecting policy decisions and causing massive financial pain. They need to be more trustworthy, and frankly, the people repeating them need to put more effort into clarifying them or making them more accurate.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: vogue65 on March 13, 2020, 02:52:56 PM

I live in Italy part time, my claim to authority.
In fact, I have an apartment in Bergamo, belong to the Bergamo golf course (closed).
My wife has been on the phone with her friends in Bergamo today, like every day since she got home last week.  Her self imposed quarantine ends tomorrow, I hope I don't have IT.


So what's up in Bergamo?
An old friend in a nursing home was diagnosed with the virus.
He went to the ICU at the hospital.
They sent him back to the nursing home for hospice to die.
There are not enough ICU beds.
There are not enough ventilators.

So why are we talking about epidemiology?  Why are we talking about mega data?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 13, 2020, 02:58:11 PM

Quote from: vogue65 on March 13, 2020, 02:52:56 PM

I live in Italy part time, my claim to authority.
In fact, I have an apartment in Bergamo, belong to the Bergamo golf course (closed).
My wife has been on the phone with her friends in Bergamo today, like every day since she got home last week.  Her self imposed quarantine ends tomorrow, I hope I don't have IT.


So what's up in Bergamo?
An old friend in a nursing home was diagnosed with the virus.
He went to the ICU at the hospital.
They sent him back to the nursing home for hospice to die.
There are not enough ICU beds.
There are not enough ventilators.

So why are we talking about epidemiology?  Why are we talking about mega data?

Very sad, but that same scenario is happening over and over in Italian hospitals. A doc at one of the largest said they no longer intubate patients over 60 years of age. They are sent home to die. Problem? Lack of ventilators.

If the epidemic here in the US is even close to what it is in Italy, we will be doing the same thing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: vogue65 on March 13, 2020, 03:08:15 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 13, 2020, 02:58:11 PM

Very sad, but that same scenario is happening over and over in Italian hospitals. A doc at one of the largest said they no longer intubate patients over 60 years of age. They are sent home to die. Problem? Lack of ventilators.

If the epidemic here in the US is even close to what it is in Italy, we will be doing the same thing.

Yes sir.
We have 60 to 70,000 ventilators for intubation. 
So what are we doing?
Statistics, data collection, models, projections, body counts, interviews, studies, talk shows, meetings, etc..

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 13, 2020, 03:10:11 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 13, 2020, 01:52:18 PM

I will say this, when the dust settles if we aren't talking about closing all wet markets...with violence if necessary....then imma be really pissed

yes yes and yes

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: vogue65 on March 13, 2020, 03:19:22 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on March 13, 2020, 03:10:11 PM

yes yes and yes

The tourists don't get to see the markets, but they are there.

Italy has sold many factories to the Chinese because to earn the made in Italy designation merchandise must be manufactured in Italy.  However, it does not have to be manufactured BY ITALIANS.

So we have tens of thousands of Chinese workers traveling back and forth between Italy and China to work in the Italian factories.  (Think sweat shops)

Those are the facts, you can draw your own conclusions.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 13, 2020, 03:22:05 PM

Just got clarification from one of the folks I know at the Pentagon....lockdown plan is in place and ready to roll but no trigger pull right now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 13, 2020, 03:24:43 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 13, 2020, 03:22:05 PM

Just got clarification from one of the folks I know at the Pentagon....lockdown plan is in place and ready to roll but no trigger pull right now.

Wow I just rioted for nothing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 13, 2020, 03:29:45 PM

Quote from: Retire0 on March 13, 2020, 02:33:23 PM

National emergency - Trump

Then he said he takes no responsibility for lack of testing. Then blames Obama for swine flu.

Truman just rolled over in his grave.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: vogue65 on March 13, 2020, 03:35:43 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 13, 2020, 03:29:45 PM

Then he said he takes no responsibility for lack of testing. Then blames Obama for swine flu.

Truman just rolled over in his grave.

And Gen. Kenneth McKenzie takes responsibility for misinformation while to CIC passes the buck.    Harry said, the buck stops here, he knew how to man up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on March 13, 2020, 03:38:22 PM

Has anyone been stocking up on supplies? I'm trying to figure out the right way to do this, honestly. Based on my stop at Woodman's today, the panic buying is getting nuts.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Eldon on March 13, 2020, 03:39:53 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 13, 2020, 03:22:05 PM

Just got clarification from one of the folks I know at the Pentagon....lockdown plan is in place and ready to roll but no trigger pull right now.

What does a "lockdown" entail in an American context?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Let's Go Warriors on March 13, 2020, 03:41:39 PM

Quote from: Eldon on March 13, 2020, 03:39:53 PM

What does a "lockdown" entail in an American context?

I have heard from someone who has been dead on all of this since early January that the "lockdown" is going to be for NY, CALI, WASH and NJ.  Though I would think areas in Colorado and Chicago now too.

My GUESS would be no travel in and out of the hot zones.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on March 13, 2020, 03:43:51 PM

nm

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 13, 2020, 03:44:30 PM

Quote from: Let's Go Warriors on March 13, 2020, 03:41:39 PM

I have heard from someone who has been dead on all of this since early January that the "lockdown" is going to be for NY, CALI, WASH and NJ.  Though I would think areas in Colorado and Chicago now too.

My GUESS would be no travel in and out of the hot zones.

Is Chicago really a hot zone? I looked at a map yesterday and it said only 3 cases in cook county.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: vogue65 on March 13, 2020, 03:44:42 PM

Quote from: MUfan12 on March 13, 2020, 03:38:22 PM

Has anyone been stocking up on supplies? I'm trying to figure out the right way to do this, honestly. Based on my stop at Woodman's today, the panic buying is getting nuts.

Looks like you may need a years supply.  What is the game?  Being the last man standing?
Last night Tucker Carlson gave out the panic buying shopping list.  Thanks Tucker.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Let's Go Warriors on March 13, 2020, 03:45:59 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 13, 2020, 03:44:30 PM

Is Chicago really a hot zone? I looked at a map yesterday and it said only 3 cases in cook county.

https://coronavirus.1point3acres.com/en

Sorry 27 in Cook Country.
I know people from my company that are in the 111 W. Monroe building in Chicago and 1 person there has tested positive as well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 13, 2020, 03:46:37 PM

Quote from: Eldon on March 13, 2020, 03:39:53 PM

What does a "lockdown" entail in an American context?

I'm not privy to the details as my sources are busy and military (so not necessarily directly involved) but the bones of it sound like shuttering of non-essential businesses, schools, and no unnecessary travel(airports closed or limited). Don't know more than that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on March 13, 2020, 03:48:40 PM

Quote from: MUfan12 on March 13, 2020, 03:38:22 PM

Has anyone been stocking up on supplies? I'm trying to figure out the right way to do this, honestly. Based on my stop at Woodman's today, the panic buying is getting nuts.

My trip to the grocery store -- because we've suddenly and unexpectedly got a house full of college kids -- was...interesting. Honestly, I've never seen anything like it.  Lots and lots of people with very full carts.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on March 13, 2020, 03:56:37 PM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 13, 2020, 03:48:40 PM

My trip to the grocery store -- because we've suddenly and unexpectedly got a house full of college kids -- was...interesting. Honestly, I've never seen anything like it.  Lots and lots of people with very full carts.

We don't need a ton, just two of us and a toddler. I just want to make sure we're covered on the essentials for a couple weeks. But even getting that looks like it's gonna be difficult.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 13, 2020, 04:05:15 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 13, 2020, 02:58:11 PM

Very sad, but that same scenario is happening over and over in Italian hospitals. A doc at one of the largest said they no longer intubate patients over 60 years of age. They are sent home to die. Problem? Lack of ventilators.

If the epidemic here in the US is even close to what it is in Italy, we will be doing the same thing.

From a doctor friend in Spain. Today is looking like Italy in many hospitals there. Overwhelmed. Basically in a day or two went crazy, expected to get a ton worse in the next few days.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 13, 2020, 04:15:42 PM

Quote from: MUfan12 on March 13, 2020, 03:38:22 PM

Has anyone been stocking up on supplies? I'm trying to figure out the right way to do this, honestly. Based on my stop at Woodman's today, the panic buying is getting nuts.

Wasn't there a show:
You, me and the apocalypse.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 13, 2020, 04:18:15 PM

Yesterday I went to CostCo and then Meijer. 

CostCo was very busy .. I hear today it's a freaking zoo, with lines reaching the back of the store.

Meijer, on the other hand, was great.   It was busy, but they had everything in stock (minus TP) and it was quite orderly.

My guess is Target/Walmart/Meijer is a far better place to shop during these panic days.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Eldon on March 13, 2020, 04:21:10 PM

If it comes down to it, check out places that you wouldn't generally to expect to sell things like toilet paper, hand soap, canned food, etc., e.g., Family Dollar, Dollar Tree, and, believe it or not, many local gas stations.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 13, 2020, 04:24:30 PM

Quote from: Eldon on March 13, 2020, 04:21:10 PM

If it comes down to it, check out places that you wouldn't generally to expect to sell things like toilet paper, hand soap, canned food, etc., e.g., Family Dollar, Dollar Tree, and, believe it or not, many local gas stations.

Said that to a friend of mine yesterday who rolled her eyes at me as if those are all below her. I hate my age group.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Eldon on March 13, 2020, 04:28:57 PM

Can the government impose a quarantine on anybody?

The legal authority to impose quarantines on individuals is rooted in the “police powers” granted broadly to states, counties and cities to protect public health. That means for most Americans, a state or local quarantine imposed to prevent the spread of the coronavirus will be far more important than any federal order.

When it comes to the federal government, it can impose quarantines under the Public Health Service Act for two main reasons: to prevent the spread of communicable disease into the United States or between states. That is why, for example, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention ordered Americans flying home after visiting mainland China or Iran to fly into one of 11 major U.S. airports that had the ability to screen passengers.

Quarantines are considered a measure of last resort when no preferable means is available to halt the spread of a deadly communicable disease. Those subject to quarantine should be either infectious or have been exposed to the disease, experts said.

“We do not want to restrict people’s liberty unless it is necessary, unless we cannot achieve the public health end with less draconian measures,” said Wendy Parmet, the director of the Center for Health Policy and Law at Northeastern University.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/forced-quarantine-questions-answered-121532610.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 13, 2020, 04:40:36 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 13, 2020, 04:24:30 PM

Said that to a friend of mine yesterday who rolled her eyes at me as if those are all below her. I hate my age group.

Kind of a rookie move to think one could get sanitizer and tp this weekend at a Dollar Tree to be honest.

Shopping at the above mentioned stores isn't really an age or income thing. It's more of an individual person thing.  There are multiple regularly busy Dollar Tree's near me in nice areas. Nothing wrong with going there or anywhere else.  👍

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 13, 2020, 04:52:59 PM

All WI k-12 schools closed 3/18-4/6, per Tony Evers order.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 13, 2020, 05:04:44 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 13, 2020, 03:46:37 PM

I'm not privy to the details as my sources are busy and military (so not necessarily directly involved) but the bones of it sound like shuttering of non-essential businesses, schools, and no unnecessary travel(airports closed or limited). Don't know more than that.

So, in theory, I'd still be able to drive from my home in Chicago to my in-laws in Lake County, IL? That's all I'm really concerned with at the moment. We are going to be relying on them for child care.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on March 13, 2020, 05:05:05 PM

Georgetown has officially called off all in-person school for the remainder of the semester including final exams. As I understand it, by Tuesday my daughter must register for a move-out time before March 29. Apparently they're going to schedule everyone to try to avoid too many on campus at any one time.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 13, 2020, 05:11:19 PM

I'm wondering what the impact of closing schools is going be on the availability of healthcare professionals. My wife is an outpatient PT and her hospital is starting to reposition non-primary care givers because of potential unavailability of primary care givers because of child care requirements. Hell there is talk she might have to work as a nursing assistant on the admittance floors if there is a crush and the primary folks are out.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 13, 2020, 05:12:32 PM

Quote from: Coleman on March 13, 2020, 05:04:44 PM

So, in theory, I'd still be able to drive from my home in Chicago to my in-laws in Lake County, IL? That's all I'm really concerned with at the moment. We are going to be relying on them for child care.

Correct as I understand it..but that was my other point on calling off schools. If kids are carriers you are putting kids into buildings with the most at risk group in the grandparents

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on March 13, 2020, 05:20:31 PM

Interesting article that judging by the cruise ship data where everyone was tested, that the overall mortality may be lower than believed, although still very high for the elderly.

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-outbreak-diamond-princess-cruise-ship-death-rate

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 13, 2020, 05:28:51 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 13, 2020, 04:52:59 PM

All WI k-12 schools closed 3/18-4/6, per Tony Evers order.

Maybe I should go smoke some weed, aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 13, 2020, 06:16:28 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 13, 2020, 04:18:15 PM

Yesterday I went to CostCo and then Meijer. 

CostCo was very busy .. I hear today it's a freaking zoo, with lines reaching the back of the store.

Meijer, on the other hand, was great.   It was busy, but they had everything in stock (minus TP) and it was quite orderly.

My guess is Target/Walmart/Meijer is a far better place to shop during these panic days.

Yep.

I was at Costco yesterday, and like you said, it was crazy. Shelves emptying out, limits on how many of certain items you can buy, long checkout lines, etc.

Today I made a quick run to Target to pick up something that I ordered online and it was very quiet. Plenty of cashiers standing there waiting for customers.

I also went to a small "shop local" specialty store and was the only customer in the place.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Chili on March 13, 2020, 07:16:38 PM

Quote from: Let's Go Warriors on March 13, 2020, 03:41:39 PM

I have heard from someone who has been dead on all of this since early January that the "lockdown" is going to be for NY, CALI, WASH and NJ.  Though I would think areas in Colorado and Chicago now too.

My GUESS would be no travel in and out of the hot zones.

Just heard from someone connected to a rental car company that they're preparing to close locations at airports.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 13, 2020, 07:22:33 PM

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 13, 2020, 05:20:31 PM

Interesting article that judging by the cruise ship data where everyone was tested, that the overall mortality may be lower than believed, although still very high for the elderly.

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-outbreak-diamond-princess-cruise-ship-death-rate

The weird aspect of that article is it says the fatality rate on the ship was 0.91%, then does some funky math to say in China it would have been 0.5%.

The 0.91% is in line with what most people suggest may be the real fatality rate, 1%.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 13, 2020, 07:39:29 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 13, 2020, 05:28:51 PM

Maybe I should go smoke some weed, aina?

I have been.  Plan to continue to, at least until the Army closes the interstates and I can't get to Rockford.  Aina.   8-)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 13, 2020, 08:00:28 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 13, 2020, 07:39:29 PM

I have been.  Plan to continue to, at least until the Army closes the interstates and I can't get to Rockford.  Aina.   8-)

Ha, I have randoms I need to pass.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 13, 2020, 08:09:58 PM

(https://i.redd.it/apxxmlc4kfm41.jpg)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 13, 2020, 08:10:07 PM

https://twitter.com/david_j_roth/status/1238209009548775429?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 13, 2020, 08:10:32 PM

Headed to Cincinnati tomorrow.  Xavier went from online until after Easter to last night's change to online rest of semester.  And also must move everything out of dorms by March 23.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 13, 2020, 08:21:30 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 13, 2020, 04:18:15 PM

Yesterday I went to CostCo and then Meijer. 

CostCo was very busy .. I hear today it's a freaking zoo, with lines reaching the back of the store.

Meijer, on the other hand, was great.   It was busy, but they had everything in stock (minus TP) and it was quite orderly.

My guess is Target/Walmart/Meijer is a far better place to shop during these panic days.

i was at pic n sav waukesha/south at about 2 pm.  i was expecting the worst.  nothing.  i walked right up to and thru self checkout.  the cashier lines(all 4 of the 7) had maybe 2 waiting while one cashed out.  i did not even attempt to get toilet paper, hand sanitizer, rubbing alcohol as i have plenty at home.  the only thing they were out of that i had on my list was self-serve feta/kalamata olives. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 13, 2020, 08:29:17 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 13, 2020, 08:21:30 PM

i was at pic n sav waukesha/south at about 2 pm.  i was expecting the worst.  nothing.  i walked right up to and thru self checkout.  the cashier lines(all 4 of the 7) had maybe 2 waiting while one cashed out.  i did not even attempt to get toilet paper, hand sanitizer, rubbing alcohol as i have plenty at home.  the only thing they were out of that i had on my list was self-serve feta/kalamata olives.

1st world problems, aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 13, 2020, 08:29:51 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 13, 2020, 08:21:30 PM

i was at pic n sav waukesha/south at about 2 pm.  i was expecting the worst.  nothing.  i walked right up to and thru self checkout.  the cashier lines(all 4 of the 7) had maybe 2 waiting while one cashed out.  i did not even attempt to get toilet paper, hand sanitizer, rubbing alcohol as i have plenty at home.  the only thing they were out of that i had on my list was self-serve feta/kalamata olives.

You still think we're getting a vaccine in a couple months?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 13, 2020, 08:37:56 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 13, 2020, 08:09:58 PM

(https://i.redd.it/apxxmlc4kfm41.jpg)

Two questions/issues I have with this comparison....why is the 5th in US pegged to the 23rd in Italy, what is the significance that links those? And the US is 5.5x the population of Italy, if we're on the same trajectory why wouldn't we be some approximate number of 5x the "equivalent" Italian date?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 13, 2020, 08:41:36 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 13, 2020, 08:29:51 PM

You still think we're getting a vaccine in a couple months?

 good question.  i know at the press conference, they are going to be pushing.  time for a lot of pragmatism

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 13, 2020, 08:41:48 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 13, 2020, 08:37:56 PM

Two questions/issues I have with this comparison....why is the 5th in US pegged to the 23rd in Italy, what is the significance that links those? And the US is 5.5x the population of Italy, if we're on the same trajectory why wouldn't we be some approximate number of 5x the "equivalent" Italian date?

I think you're expecting too much from numbers, I just thought it was neat.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 13, 2020, 08:42:32 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 13, 2020, 08:37:56 PM

Two questions/issues I have with this comparison....why is the 5th in US pegged to the 23rd in Italy, what is the significance that links those? And the US is 5.5x the population of Italy, if we're on the same trajectory why wouldn't we be some approximate number of 5x the "equivalent" Italian date?

I was thinking about the letter point when you brought it up earlier.  I think the answer is no, but our peak can be higher.  The virus starts with one and multiplies. 

Conversely though we seem to have three or so community spread hot spot areas.  So it wouldn’t make sense that we don’t have all three on that curve separately. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 13, 2020, 08:45:34 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 13, 2020, 08:37:56 PM

Two questions/issues I have with this comparison....why is the 5th in US pegged to the 23rd in Italy, what is the significance that links those? And the US is 5.5x the population of Italy, if we're on the same trajectory why wouldn't we be some approximate number of 5x the "equivalent" Italian date?

The graphic is showing how infections grow/spread in number. they are pegged to the same dates by equivalent numbers of infections. It shows that we are following Italy's path directly and showing what we can expect each day.

Total population doesn't matter until you get to a point where new "infectable" people become limiting in terms of new hosts. Both countries are far from that point right now, so the population is immaterial.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 13, 2020, 08:55:15 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 13, 2020, 08:37:56 PM

Two questions/issues I have with this comparison....why is the 5th in US pegged to the 23rd in Italy, what is the significance that links those? And the US is 5.5x the population of Italy, if we're on the same trajectory why wouldn't we be some approximate number of 5x the "equivalent" Italian date?

Their issues started earlier, so the 23rd of March (for them) and the 5th of April (for us) were at the same point in time coronavirus-wise.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Marquette Gyros on March 13, 2020, 08:56:14 PM

Best Twitter accounts to follow for up-to-date insights? Some great links posted in this thread already.

(By the way, it’s a shortfall in their algorithm that the most liked, most relevant, most insightful content on such a wide-ranging topic can’t be found via hashtags, search etc.)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 13, 2020, 09:03:20 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 13, 2020, 08:41:36 PM

good question.  i know at the press conference, they are going to be pushing.  time for a lot of pragmatism

Going to be pushing? Like pushing a website google knows nothing about?

Regardless, vaccines don't get made in that timeline

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 13, 2020, 09:18:57 PM

Just got home after spending the last 2 weeks on the road.

My wife and I first drove to St. Pete (Fla) to stay a few nights with my cousins who live down there. Had a great time in what was my first extended stay in that part of the metro area after many, many trips to Tampa. They lived within walking distance of the beach and the area with restaurants and bars. St. Pete was alive with activity every time we went out.

On March 1, we and another couple (including my best friend from my MU days) set sail on a Norwegian cruise to the Caribbean. We thought about not going but the virus hadn't reached crisis stage yet in the U.S., so we went. Had a wonderful vacation. They did just about everything they could to keep the ship sanitized. The boat was sold out, some 2500 passengers. If you didn't know there was such a thing as COVID-19, you never would have guessed it was an issue at all.

We got back to Tampa on March 8 (this past Sunday). By this time, the virus was being taken much more seriously by U.S. officials. We dropped our wives off at the airport for them to fly home; we were staying an extra 5 days to golf, go to spring training games, etc. When we got to our hotel, we turned on the TV just in time to hear a State Dept. say something along the lines of: "Whatever you do ... do NOT get on a cruise ship." We could only laugh.

When I woke up Tuesday morning, I had a sore throat and a runny nose. I immediately went to my computer to look up the difference between a cold and the coronavirus. I did not have a dry cough, did not have a fever, and did not have shortness of breath, so I was pretty sure I only had a cold. I told my wife, who is a nurse, and she was quite sure it was only a cold. Sure enough, it was pretty much gone by Thursday.

We went to a game at Steinbrenner Field -- totally sold out. Had a lot of fun. Yesterday, we went to Clearwater Beach. It was packed with spring breakers, families, etc. Restaurants had long waits. Stores were filled with shoppers. Not a single person there seemed the least bit worried.

Drove my friend to the airport today and then made the long drive home to Charlotte.

I am not trying to downplay COVID-19. I feel fortunate that we did not get it -- and extremely fortunate that our boat wasn't quarantined. I'm just relaying real-world observations and experiences.

It was surreal to sit in a sports bar yesterday watching the BET only to see the game stopped and everything called off. These are crazy times.

Grateful to be home again, safe, sound and healthy!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 13, 2020, 09:22:09 PM

Quote from: Eldon on March 13, 2020, 12:31:27 PM

Notes from a recent (3/10) UCSF panel:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/notes-from-ucsf-expert-panel-march-10-dr-jordan-shlain-m-d-/

Meant to say this earlier, but Eldon, thanks for a great information post today. Great stuff summarizing information out of UCSF.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Sir Lawrence on March 13, 2020, 09:32:26 PM

Reading MU82’s recent experience prompts me to wonder, which of us will get it first?  My take from this thread is that most of us, if not all, will become infected.  No one has immunity.  Hope to hear straight forward testimony.

Gesundheit. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on March 13, 2020, 09:40:55 PM

Quote from: Sir Lawrence on March 13, 2020, 09:32:26 PM

Reading MU82’s recent experience prompts me to wonder, which of us will get it first?  My take from this thread is that most of us, if not all, will become infected.  No one has immunity.  Hope to hear straight forward testimony.

Gesundheit. 

I’m not allowed into work Monday since going to Vegas.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on March 13, 2020, 09:51:31 PM

Quote from: Sir Lawrence on March 13, 2020, 09:32:26 PM

Reading MU82’s recent experience prompts me to wonder, which of us will get it first?  My take from this thread is that most of us, if not all, will become infected.  No one has immunity.  Hope to hear straight forward testimony.

Gesundheit.

Obviously this is serious, serious stuff, but I doubt MOST of us will become infected and I really, really doubt that ALL of us will. If we all become infected this country will go through a depression that will make the 30s seem like the good old days.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 13, 2020, 09:53:34 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 13, 2020, 09:51:31 PM

Obviously this is serious, serious stuff, but I doubt MOST of us will become infected and I really, really doubt that ALL of us will. If we all become infected this country will go through a depression that will make the 30s seem like the good old days.

I'm betting most of us do get infected. But the great majority of those won't ever officially know they were infected

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Sir Lawrence on March 13, 2020, 09:54:55 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 13, 2020, 09:53:34 PM

I'm betting most of us do get infected. But the great majority of those won't ever officially know they were infected

This is what I believe.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on March 13, 2020, 09:57:35 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 13, 2020, 09:53:34 PM

I'm betting most of us do get infected. But the great majority of those won't ever officially know they were infected

That’s certainly a possibility I’ve considered - and if true I would actually be encouraged (that many would have no or minor symptoms)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 13, 2020, 10:10:24 PM

Quote from: Sir Lawrence on March 13, 2020, 09:32:26 PM

Reading MU82’s recent experience prompts me to wonder, which of us will get it first?  My take from this thread is that most of us, if not all, will become infected.  No one has immunity.  Hope to hear straight forward testimony.

Gesundheit.

1 month of moderator privileges for the first scooper to fall sick and live to post about it?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 13, 2020, 10:40:53 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 13, 2020, 09:57:35 PM

That’s certainly a possibility I’ve considered - and if true I would actually be encouraged (that many would have no or minor symptoms)

I certainly hope that is correct. But my research on circulation of other coronaviruses, and individuals with no symptoms, suggests that those with no symptoms that would otherwise go undiagnosed is around 10-40% of all cases. That's in coronaviruses that have been circulated for 100's or 1000's of years in humans, and some immunity has been achieved.

So it would be unheard of for the majority of cases to be missed because of being asymptomatic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 13, 2020, 11:02:01 PM

Quote from: Marquette Gyros on March 13, 2020, 08:56:14 PM

Best Twitter accounts to follow for up-to-date insights? Some great links posted in this thread already.

(By the way, it’s a shortfall in their algorithm that the most liked, most relevant, most insightful content on such a wide-ranging topic can’t be found via hashtags, search etc.)

https://twitter.com/BNODesk

https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD

best two, IMO

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 13, 2020, 11:04:07 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 13, 2020, 09:03:20 PM

Going to be pushing? Like pushing a website google knows nothing about?

Regardless, vaccines don't get made in that timeline

some of the potential vaccine(s) are already made, it's the testing part that usually takes more time.  what they are probably willing to do is lower some of the standards.  but now i'm getting into territory i don't know enough about.  forget probably knows more about this part.  what i'm guessing is that once the testing reaches a certain point, efficacy/side effects or risk/reward, then they may allow it in certain cases whereas they normally would not.  for example, if someone is ill to the point their life is at risk if nothing is done, then allow for administration.  i'm just trying to surmise if you will.  i know this may sound macabre, but if the virus becomes more morbid and potentially more fatal, what are our better options? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 13, 2020, 11:06:59 PM

Quote from: Retire0 on March 13, 2020, 09:40:55 PM

I’m not allowed into work Monday since going to Vegas.

A couple days ago, my wife's hospital system required anybody who traveled to get tested and, if necessary, barred from work for as long as it takes. She didn't have to because she got back before that policy went into place, but she wouldn't have tested positive anyway - no symptoms since she got home, and it's been nearly a week.

Quote from: Sir Lawrence on March 13, 2020, 09:32:26 PM

Reading MU82’s recent experience prompts me to wonder, which of us will get it first?  My take from this thread is that most of us, if not all, will become infected.

I have to agree with Lenny that this seems like an overstatement, but maybe you'll be right ... though not sure how it will be proven if most cases aren't serious and most folks don't even get tested.

As Lenny said, though, I do take it seriously. If I sounded a little flip in some of my account, I certainly didn't mean to. I am extremely grateful that my wife and I seem to have completed our travels without having gotten the virus. Even more grateful that my kids - including my daughter, who lives in the Seattle-area county that has become kind of U.S. ground zero for COVID-19 - are OK so far.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 13, 2020, 11:16:49 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 13, 2020, 11:04:07 PM

some of the potential vaccine(s) are already made, it's the testing part that usually takes more time.  what they are probably willing to do is lower some of the standards.  but now i'm getting into territory i don't know enough about.  forget probably knows more about this part.  what i'm guessing is that once the testing reaches a certain point, efficacy/side effects or risk/reward, then they may allow it in certain cases whereas they normally would not.  for example, if someone is ill to the point their life is at risk if nothing is done, then allow for administration.  i'm just trying to surmise if you will.  i know this may sound macabre, but if the virus becomes more morbid and potentially more fatal, what are our better options?

I agree that they would likely relax some of the standards, which could accelerate it slightly, but that comes with a different risk.

If a person dies after being administered the vaccine, even if they were at risk from other disease, they then have to definitively prove that the vaccine did not play a part in that death. All testing has to cease until that is complete, and it can take forever.

Some companies with extremely efficacious cancer treatments went bankrupt and their drugs vanquished, because they rushed the testing and someone with massive co-morbidities died. The cost and time to get back on track was just too much. Most companies will be reluctant to take such a risk.

I do think we'll see vaccines emerge faster than ever, but even then, scaling this up to millions or billions of dosages is non-trivial and will take some time. I don't see it being possible to be done in less than 12 months.

I'm not certain we need it to come faster though. The big window of danger is in this next 1-2 months. If we don't get flooded with patients during that window, we have some time to develop a vaccine.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 13, 2020, 11:18:53 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 13, 2020, 09:51:31 PM

Obviously this is serious, serious stuff, but I doubt MOST of us will become infected and I really, really doubt that ALL of us will. If we all become infected this country will go through a depression that will make the 30s seem like the good old days.

we all have immune systems-some stronger than others.  practising safe hygiene, don't smoke, drink to excess(lowers immune system) eat properly, exercise, etc the levels of infectivity vary accordingly.  many may get the virus unknowingly, but still pass it on.  again, the safe practises need to be a 2 way street regardless if one is symptomatic or not.  especially people in the health field, coming into more direct contact with people.  as 4ever and i stick our fingers(gloved and washed hands of course) right into one of the main portals of entry, we need to be extra cautious.  between seeing hygiene patients for exams along with my own patients, the number of people potentially infected and then, well, do the math.  that could really be nasty. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 13, 2020, 11:21:43 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 13, 2020, 09:51:31 PM

Obviously this is serious, serious stuff, but I doubt MOST of us will become infected and I really, really doubt that ALL of us will. If we all become infected this country will go through a depression that will make the 30s seem like the good old days.

I don't know what you could possibly be basing this on.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 13, 2020, 11:22:25 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 13, 2020, 10:10:24 PM

1 month of moderator privileges for the first scooper to fall sick and live to post about it?

When I get it, I'll stay current here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 13, 2020, 11:23:19 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 13, 2020, 11:04:07 PM

some of the potential vaccine(s) are already made, it's the testing part that usually takes more time.  what they are probably willing to do is lower some of the standards.  but now i'm getting into territory i don't know enough about.  forget probably knows more about this part.  what i'm guessing is that once the testing reaches a certain point, efficacy/side effects or risk/reward, then they may allow it in certain cases whereas they normally would not.  for example, if someone is ill to the point their life is at risk if nothing is done, then allow for administration.  i'm just trying to surmise if you will.  i know this may sound macabre, but if the virus becomes more morbid and potentially more fatal, what are our better options?

They can't fast track them, its extremely dangerous.  I used to do GMP testing at a lab.

edit:  Well, I guess they could, but the blowback on mistakes would be... uhhh... real bad.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 13, 2020, 11:28:49 PM

   "If a person dies after being administered the vaccine, even if they were at risk from other disease, they then have to definitively prove that the vaccine did not play a part in that death. All testing has to cease until that is complete, and it can take forever."


   correct me, but i was just thinking, are vaccines of any use once the person is infected?  would it be too late?  at that point, what we really need would be something to treat the symptoms, i.e. compromised breathing.  the causes of death, pneumonia, heart issues related to diminished O2 etc. 

the vaccines would be to prevent new people from getting infected, no? 

my original thinking, which i am second guessing now, is that if someone is really ill, to the point of death, a vaccine is going to do nothing for them.  fast tracking a vaccine under these circumstances does not make sense so i stand corrected

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 13, 2020, 11:30:34 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 13, 2020, 11:28:49 PM

   "If a person dies after being administered the vaccine, even if they were at risk from other disease, they then have to definitively prove that the vaccine did not play a part in that death. All testing has to cease until that is complete, and it can take forever."


   correct me, but i was just thinking, are vaccines of any use once the person is infected?  would it be too late?  at that point, what we really need would be something to treat the symptoms, i.e. compromised breathing.  the causes of death, pneumonia, heart issues related to diminished O2 etc. 

the vaccines would be to prevent new people from getting infected, no? 

my original thinking, which i am second guessing now, is that if someone is really ill, to the point of death, a vaccine is going to do nothing for them.  fast tracking a vaccine under these circumstances does not make sense so i stand corrected

Correct.  Hopefully a mixture of antivirals and breathing assistance seems to help people quite a bit.  But if we run out of them, that's where we run into trouble... mostly the ventilators.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 13, 2020, 11:34:08 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 13, 2020, 11:28:49 PM

   "If a person dies after being administered the vaccine, even if they were at risk from other disease, they then have to definitively prove that the vaccine did not play a part in that death. All testing has to cease until that is complete, and it can take forever."


   correct me, but i was just thinking, are vaccines of any use once the person is infected?  would it be too late?  at that point, what we really need would be something to treat the symptoms, i.e. compromised breathing.  the causes of death, pneumonia, heart issues related to diminished O2 etc. 

Agreed.

Where you would see some fast-tracking of a vaccine, would be in testing it in patients at high risk of death if they were to become infected. Those are the individuals though that are most likely to have possible co-morbidities, which is why it is so high risk to go that route.

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 13, 2020, 11:30:34 PM

Correct.  Hopefully a mixture of antivirals and breathing assistance seems to help people quite a bit.  But if we run out of them, that's where we run into trouble... mostly the ventilators.

Also agreed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 13, 2020, 11:37:11 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 13, 2020, 11:23:19 PM

They can't fast track them, its extremely dangerous.  I used to do GMP testing at a lab.

edit:  Well, I guess they could, but the blowback on mistakes would be... uhhh... real bad.

 full agreement, but there are are "mistakes"even following proper protocol and testing including however many phases they require.  keeping in mind these are special circumstances-desperate times, desperate measures?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 13, 2020, 11:50:24 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 13, 2020, 11:37:11 PM

full agreement, but there are are "mistakes"even following proper protocol and testing including however many phases they require.  keeping in mind these are special circumstances-desperate times, desperate measures?

While I agree, can you imagine the fallout if they fast track a vaccine and it kills a bunch of people?  Who signs up for the next round of vaccinations?

Also wanted to post this

(https://i.redd.it/s4nnrlvrcim41.png)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 14, 2020, 12:27:07 AM

Hm, maybe this is what Eng had been hearing ...

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/03/14/dod-bans-all-domestic-travel-for-troops-employees-in-response-to-coronavirus-threat/

Quote

Pentagon officials late Friday announced a total domestic travel ban for all troops, civilian personnel and their families until May 11 in an effort to limit their potential exposure to the coronavirus.

In addition, troops will be granted “only authorized local leave” for the duration of the travel restrictions, limiting their ability to visit family and friends in far away states.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 14, 2020, 12:37:05 AM

The Freedom To Try Act was passed by congress.  This bill allows patients to take a medication prior to ful FFA approval.   Why not use humans early in the trials?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on March 14, 2020, 01:11:57 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 13, 2020, 11:50:24 PM

Also wanted to post this

Looks like a real-time example of the “flattening the curve” we’ve been hearing so much about.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 14, 2020, 07:30:16 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 13, 2020, 09:53:34 PM

I'm betting most of us do get infected. But the great majority of those won't ever officially know they were infected

+1

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 14, 2020, 07:41:49 AM

Local news today.

Yale New Haven replicates COVID-19 test; hopes to use it on 200 samples a day
By Mary E. O’Leary Updated 9:15 pm EDT, Friday, March 13, 2020

www.nhregister.com/news/coronavirus/amp/YNNH-replicates-the-COVID-19-test-will-be-able-15129666.php

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Eldon on March 14, 2020, 07:51:33 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 13, 2020, 09:53:34 PM

I'm betting most of us do get infected. But the great majority of those won't ever officially know they were infected

Nailed it.

There are lots of people out there who were sick last week who are just now realizing that their strange combination of fever and shortness of breath was the Coronavirus.  These people have been going about their daily routines, completely oblivious that they were carriers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 14, 2020, 08:58:35 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 14, 2020, 12:37:05 AM

The Freedom To Try Act was passed by congress.  This bill allows patients to take a medication prior to ful FFA approval.   Why not use humans early in the trials?

Did some thinking this morning, but what might actually happen is that another country fast tracks a vaccine, and we just wait and see what happens.  Hopefully production scale up of vaccines start alongside Phase II so we don't have to wait as long either way... especially since money shouldn't be a barrier.

And The Freedom to Try Act won't help with vaccines. :-P  But it will help people try new antivirals, etc.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 14, 2020, 10:05:54 AM

Quote from: Eldon on March 14, 2020, 07:51:33 AM

Nailed it.

There are lots of people out there who were sick last week who are just now realizing that their strange combination of fever and shortness of breath was the Coronavirus.  These people have been going about their daily routines, completely oblivious that they were carriers.

Right now there is very little evidence to support this being true. Is it possible, yes, is it likely no. I guess it partly depends on what you mean by "lots". If you mean another 3-5k people nationwide. Probably true. If you mean 100's of thousands, almost assuredly false.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 14, 2020, 10:13:05 AM

Quote from: Eldon on March 14, 2020, 07:51:33 AM

Nailed it.

There are lots of people out there who were sick last week who are just now realizing that their strange combination of fever and shortness of breath was the Coronavirus.  These people have been going about their daily routines, completely oblivious that they were carriers.

The common cold, bronchitis, the flu, etc. have to still be substantially more prevalent. Like thousands or tens of thousands of times more prevalent. These conclusions that we're all going to have it do not seem at all possible, and don't seem to be supported by any actual facts/data. Sure, there are infected people that have not tested positive, but that doesn't mean it's everywhere, and that we're all being exposed to it.

I still haven't seen anything presented with actual data that would suggest these high infection rates. Yet this narrative continues to build. I just don't understand.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 14, 2020, 10:14:10 AM

Quote from: forgetful on March 14, 2020, 10:05:54 AM

Right now there is very little evidence to support this being true. Is it possible, yes, is it likely no. I guess it partly depends on what you mean by "lots". If you mean another 3-5k people nationwide. Probably true. If you mean 100's of thousands, almost assuredly false.

What?  We are already wayyyyy past 3k infected nationwide.  Its likely 10k plus considering we have done so little, and the R0 probably is much larger than realized.

I'm guessing you misunderstood what he is saying.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 14, 2020, 10:24:23 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 14, 2020, 10:14:10 AM

What?  We are already wayyyyy past 3k infected nationwide.  Its likely 10k plus considering we have done so little, and the R0 probably is much larger than realized.

I'm guessing you misunderstood what he is saying.

Your statement of 10k+ requires that R0 is much larger than realized. Although there has been some super-spreaders (see NYC attorney). There isn't any evidence to support it, in fact the only concrete data I've seen says it doesn't spread that easily. You may be right, but there isn't data to support it right now.

By all data, if there are 10k active cases, we should be expecting 1k cases in hospitals. Those don't exist right now. I think we have about 5k total cases right now, with 1/2 of them in the early stages before it gets severe. That would put about 200 cases in hospitals and expecting to increase to 500 hospitalizations in the next several days.

That is consistent with what is being observed at the hospital level right now.

To be significantly above 10k cases, the vast majority would have to be early stage, which would require an R0 in the 3-4 range. That isn't supported by data, but maybe its just due to a lack of data. I hope I'm right, but basing it off very limited amount of data at the moment.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 14, 2020, 10:30:20 AM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 14, 2020, 10:13:05 AM

The common cold, bronchitis, the flu, etc. have to still be substantially more prevalent. Like thousands or tens of thousands of times more prevalent. This conclusion does not seem at all possible, and doesn't seem to be supported by any actual facts/data. I still haven't seen anything presented with actual data that would suggest these high infection rates. Yet this narrative continues to build. I just don't understand.

Mathematics.  We won't have statistically representative case numbers until we test more, and outstanding tests come back.   Which is probably why the media and government should reframe the message.

Confirmed cases / tests with results = one type of information

Confirmed cases / (outstanding+tests with results) = another type of information

Total confirmed cases is essentially meaningless without proper context... its just a number that people will say should be higher or lower based on their current knowledge/beliefs.

If results come back at a 3% of those tested are infected, that is amazing news.  Currently, we are looking at a rate of 17.3% of SPECIMENS (note: not people) in the US that have been tested are coming back positive (as of 3/13).  That is HORRIBLE news.  I can't stress that enough.  Now, of course we are only testing people within a very specific set of symptoms... so the numbers will trend high.  But also, as I mentioned earlier, that is number of SPECIMENS tested, not people tested.  Meaning, that there have been several specimens per person.  So less people tested than you think.

Hopefully, we get out testing ramped up as soon as we can, because that will give us information.  Information is power.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/testing-in-us.html
Currently, 2175 people confirmed cases in the US / 12584 specimens collected in the US.

And actually, I forgot to include the fact that of those 2175 cases, people have been tested multiple times...  so... forget my 17.3% number, its not reliable either... its much higher.

Basically, we are still flailing around in the dark here.  We have no clue what we are dealing with, and my guess is that we are actually around 20-40k infected throughout the US currently... and if that is the case, we are supremely screwed.

Sorry for being Doom guy again.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 14, 2020, 10:32:32 AM

Quote from: forgetful on March 14, 2020, 10:24:23 AM

Your statement of 10k+ requires that R0 is much larger than realized. Although there has been some super-spreaders (see NYC attorney). There isn't any evidence to support it, in fact the only concrete data I've seen says it doesn't spread that easily. You may be right, but there isn't data to support it right now.

By all data, if there are 10k active cases, we should be expecting 1k cases in hospitals. Those don't exist right now. I think we have about 5k total cases right now, with 1/2 of them in the early stages before it gets severe. That would put about 200 cases in hospitals and expecting to increase to 500 hospitalizations in the next several days.

That is consistent with what is being observed at the hospital level right now.

To be significantly above 10k cases, the vast majority would have to be early stage, which would require an R0 in the 3-4 range. That isn't supported by data, but maybe its just due to a lack of data. I hope I'm right, but basing it off very limited amount of data at the moment.

Yeah, that's the problem.  Lack of data.  I'd be ecstatic to be wrong.  My numbers are pretty speculative.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 14, 2020, 10:35:38 AM

In honesty, I don't think it matters whether the numbers are 3k, 30k or 300k infected.

While the comment to that might be "well, we need to plan" -- I'll tell you the plan right now:  Pedal to the metal.   If it's not floored, then work on why not.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 14, 2020, 10:36:32 AM

The cdc has tested less people than the nba did this week.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 14, 2020, 10:38:27 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 14, 2020, 10:30:20 AM

If results come back at a 3% of those tested are infected, that is amazing news.  Currently, we are looking at a rate of 17.3% of SPECIMENS (note: not people) in the US that have been tested are coming back positive (as of 3/13).  That is HORRIBLE news.  I can't stress that enough.  Now, of course we are only testing people within a very specific set of symptoms... so the numbers will trend high.  But also, as I mentioned earlier, that is number of SPECIMENS tested, not people tested.  Meaning, that there have been several specimens per person.  So less people tested than you think.

US test results have to be artificially high. We've essentially restricted testing to people we think have the virus. So of course the positive rate is pretty high. South Korea, on the other hand, has a much lower rate, pretty close to the 3% you referenced. The article below says they've testing about 240,000 people and have about 8,000 cases. To me, that's a much more relevant rate to use than the US rate.

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-03-14/south-koreas-rapid-coronavirus-testing-far-ahead-of-the-u-s-could-be-a-matter-of-life-and-death (https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-03-14/south-koreas-rapid-coronavirus-testing-far-ahead-of-the-u-s-could-be-a-matter-of-life-and-death)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 14, 2020, 10:39:52 AM

Went to the store today, and...

It was largely fine.  We went early but the crowds were picking up.  Plenty of fresh foods available.  Shortages on some of the frozen and dry goods.  No toilet paper.  Very few cleaning supplies...which is a good thing.  My wife tends to be an over-buyer anyway so we are usually well stocked.

Also the liquor section had no lines or anything!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 14, 2020, 10:50:06 AM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 14, 2020, 10:38:27 AM

US test results have to be artificially high. We've essentially restricted testing to people we think have the virus. So of course the positive rate is pretty high. South Korea, on the other hand, has a much lower rate, pretty close to the 3% you referenced. The article below says they've testing about 240,000 people and have about 8,000 cases. To me, that's a much more relevant rate to use than the US rate.

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-03-14/south-koreas-rapid-coronavirus-testing-far-ahead-of-the-u-s-could-be-a-matter-of-life-and-death (https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-03-14/south-koreas-rapid-coronavirus-testing-far-ahead-of-the-u-s-could-be-a-matter-of-life-and-death)

But it isn't.  They took precautions and isolated people.  We have done so little, and have a significantly larger amount of community spread than they have ever have. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 14, 2020, 10:54:21 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 14, 2020, 08:58:35 AM

Did some thinking this morning, but what might actually happen is that another country fast tracks a vaccine, and we just wait and see what happens.  Hopefully production scale up of vaccines start alongside Phase II so we don't have to wait as long either way... especially since money shouldn't be a barrier.

And The Freedom to Try Act won't help with vaccines. :-P  But it will help people try new antivirals, etc.

Money will be a barrier

https://twitter.com/mqmq_mmqq/status/1236751849769676801?s=19

Sad

We're a better nation because Jonas Salk thought that way

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 14, 2020, 10:56:31 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 14, 2020, 10:54:21 AM

Money will be a barrier

https://twitter.com/mqmq_mmqq/status/1236751849769676801?s=19

Sad

We're a better nation because Jonas Salk thought that way

Gilead actually owns an antiviral called Remdesivir.  It isn't a vaccine, so that person is full of doo doo.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 14, 2020, 11:07:02 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 14, 2020, 10:50:06 AM

But it isn't.  They took precautions and isolated people.  We have done so little, and have a significantly larger amount of community spread than they have ever have.

I get what you're saying. Since the US has been decidedly less proactive, you think it's fair to assume that our positive test rate should be much higher than Korea's. I don't disagree with that. But I do still think our current positive test rate is artificially high. And probably by a lot.

I would also point out that Korea testing is still pretty targeted, since a lot of their testing has been focused on those with known exposure to positive cases. So while their rate is fairly assumed to be lower than ours given their preventative measures, I would still lean toward the standard positive test rate being closer to theirs than ours.

Further, I haven't seen much noting isolation as a key measure in Korea outside of just those who have tested positive and their close connections. And the US has certainly been pushing that idea as well. The article below notes that Korea has had a very different approach from China and Italy, which seems to be very effective. The question is whether their model is even possible without the testing capacity they have. I assume no, but to me, this offers a lot more hope than what I've heard from the US experts.

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/health-environment/article/3075164/south-koreas-coronavirus-response-opposite-china-and (https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/health-environment/article/3075164/south-koreas-coronavirus-response-opposite-china-and)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 14, 2020, 11:15:44 AM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 14, 2020, 11:07:02 AM

I get what you're saying. Since the US has been decidedly less proactive, you think it's fair to assume that our positive test rate should be much higher than Korea's. I don't disagree with that. But I do still think our current positive test rate is artificially high. And probably by a lot.

I would also point out that Korea testing is still pretty targeted, since a lot of their testing has been focused on those with known exposure to positive cases. So while their rate is fairly assumed to be lower than ours given their preventative measures, I would still lean toward the standard positive test rate being closer to theirs than ours.

Further, I haven't seen much noting isolation as a key measure in Korea outside of just those who have tested positive and their close connections. And the US has certainly been pushing that idea as well. The article below notes that Korea has had a very different approach from China and Italy, which seems to be very effective. The question is whether their model is even possible without the testing capacity they have. I assume no, but to me, this offers a lot more hope than what I've heard from the US experts.

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/health-environment/article/3075164/south-koreas-coronavirus-response-opposite-china-and (https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/health-environment/article/3075164/south-koreas-coronavirus-response-opposite-china-and)

I think we are mostly in agreement here.  I've been saying for a while that we need to be more like South Korea.  Obviously, we need to do it on a much larger scale.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on March 14, 2020, 11:17:28 AM

Quote from: forgetful on March 14, 2020, 10:05:54 AM

Right now there is very little evidence to support this being true. Is it possible, yes, is it likely no. I guess it partly depends on what you mean by "lots". If you mean another 3-5k people nationwide. Probably true. If you mean 100's of thousands, almost assuredly false.

Wow.  You’ve covered every possible counter-argument there.  You’ve even covered the counter-arguments to the counter-arguments. 

Social distancing isn’t going to bother you at all, eh?  But at the same time, it is going to bother you.  But only if you let it.  Which you will.  Unless you don’t.  Then you won’t.  Unless you do.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Eldon on March 14, 2020, 11:33:53 AM

Quote from: forgetful on March 14, 2020, 10:05:54 AM

Right now there is very little evidence to support this being true. Is it possible, yes, is it likely no. I guess it partly depends on what you mean by "lots". If you mean another 3-5k people nationwide. Probably true. If you mean 100's of thousands, almost assuredly false.

I definitely mean (evenyually) 100,000s nationwide.

Here's my amateur epidemiological reasoning using Boston alone.

Many people at the Biogen conference have tested positive. This conference happened on Feb 26-27, middle of the week.

Then, some of those same people went to a different conference in Boston, hosted by Cowen investment bank on that same weekend. This conference was held in the Prudential center, where there's a mall, an observation deck for tourists to see the Boston skyline, etc.

That's a lot of time for infected people to be roaming around the city.

Making matters worse, the Eastern Economic Association held a conference the same weekend at the same location (Prudential Center, Sheraton).

Prediction: the Boston metro area becomes THE next epicenter of the virus.

Those Biogen people have led to infections in many others who did not attend the initial conference.

The people in this "second concentric circle" would have been feeling the symptoms around March 4-6. These people were going about their day, running errands, etc, up until only a few days ago.

I fear that Boston will become so bad that Logan gets shutdown.

Obviously I sincerely hope that I'm wrong.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 14, 2020, 11:49:52 AM

Quote from: Eldon on March 14, 2020, 11:33:53 AM

I definitely mean (evenyually) 100,000s nationwide.

Here's my amateur epidemiological reasoning using Boston alone.

Many people at the Biogen conference have tested positive. This conference happened on Feb 26-27, middle of the week.

Then, some of those same people went to a different conference in Boston, hosted by Cowen investment bank on that same weekend. This conference was held in the Prudential center, where there's a mall, an observation deck for tourists to see the Boston skyline, etc.

That's a lot of time for infected people to be roaming around the city.

Making matters worse, the Eastern Economic Association held a conference the same weekend at the same location (Prudential Center, Sheraton).

Prediction: the Boston metro area becomes THE next epicenter of the virus.

Those Biogen people have led to infections in many others who did not attend the initial conference.

The people in this "second concentric circle" would have been feeling the symptoms around March 4-6. These people were going about their day, running errands, etc, up until only a few days ago.

I fear that Boston will become so bad that Logan gets shutdown.

Obviously I sincerely hope that I'm wrong.

The eventual 100'000s I agree with. Much for the reasons you say. As I noted above, my disagreement would be on 100,000's right now.

I estimate around 5k cases right now. But as you note those are spread across the nation, which allows each "concentric circle" to grow independently. Boston is going to get bad fast. How well people are able to distance themselves will determine how much these other "concentric circles" grow, and then ultimately how bad things get.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 14, 2020, 12:08:36 PM

Conspiracy theory alert:

Reading the UK response, where they are not taking any drastic measures, because they want people to get infected to generate herd immunity, there are some interesting aspects.

They are not taking drastic measures, because they believe the peak of this is still 3 months away, and they say that people are not going to follow drastic measures for 3 months. So they need a moderate number of infections now. They are essentially being open about their concerns and plans.

Now the conspiracy theory part. Are the delays in US testing essentially the same goal. To hide the real infections so that they could delay drastic measures. Essentially deciding that Americans, if they knew the true number of infections would freak out (like they are now), so hid the real data by not testing to generate an early phase of herd immunity, before another wave 3 months out.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 14, 2020, 12:29:13 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 14, 2020, 10:39:52 AM

Went to the store today, and...

It was largely fine.  We went early but the crowds were picking up.  Plenty of fresh foods available.  Shortages on some of the frozen and dry goods.  No toilet paper.  Very few cleaning supplies...which is a good thing.  My wife tends to be an over-buyer anyway so we are usually well stocked.

Also the liquor section had no lines or anything!

There was no chicken in my supermarket this morning and I heard it was the same elsewhere.  Is there a run on chicken with the toilet paper and Purell or is there some other reason?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 14, 2020, 12:33:47 PM

Quote from: Eldon on March 14, 2020, 11:33:53 AM

I fear that Boston will become so bad that Logan gets shutdown.

Obviously I sincerely hope that I'm wrong.

South Korea had a high infection rate among a religious sect in a large city that didn't seem to transfer out to the broader population on a large scale like you're suggesting. Do you view that to be a noticeably different kind of situation?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on March 14, 2020, 01:07:35 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 14, 2020, 12:29:13 PM

There was no chicken in my supermarket this morning and I heard it was the same elsewhere.  Is there a run on chicken with the toilet paper and Purell or is there some other reason?

Just a stocking up mentality at play. Was at a grocery store in NYC yesterday and the most random things were out of stock while plenty more were in ample supply.  Chicken doesn’t stand out as particularly specific idea to include in a worst case scenario list

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 14, 2020, 01:22:09 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on March 14, 2020, 01:07:35 PM

Just a stocking up mentality at play. Was at a grocery store in NYC yesterday and the most random things were out of stock while plenty more were in ample supply.  Chicken doesn’t stand out as particularly specific idea to include in a worst case scenario list

I agree.  I went for the frozen food and soup just to build a supply.  Totally fine. 

The most random crap though is piled sky high in carts.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on March 14, 2020, 01:22:51 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on March 14, 2020, 01:07:35 PM

Just a stocking up mentality at play. Was at a grocery store in NYC yesterday and the most random things were out of stock while plenty more were in ample supply.  Chicken doesn’t stand out as particularly specific idea to include in a worst case scenario list

Stays marginally fresher longer refrigerated.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 14, 2020, 01:44:18 PM

Yeah I would rather have people stock up now than go out when they are ill.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on March 14, 2020, 02:12:04 PM

Re a vaccine - forgive me because I've probably missed something how fast this is moving - but I thought a covid-19 vaccine wouldn't likely be as effective as other vaccines, due to the nature of coronaviruses?  My limited understanding so far has been that coronaviruses are structured more like the common cold, and immunity doesn't stick the way it does even with the annual flu vaccine, let alone vaccines that are effective for multiple years at a time?  I thought studies of people who have been infected have hypothesized that those people could be reinfected in a matter of months or maybe even weeks.  If that's all the immunity you get from recovering from the actual illness, wouldn't that also be the ceiling on how effective a vaccine would be?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: statnik on March 14, 2020, 02:32:16 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 14, 2020, 11:49:52 AM

The eventual 100'000s I agree with. Much for the reasons you say. As I noted above, my disagreement would be on 100,000's right now.

I estimate around 5k cases right now. But as you note those are spread across the nation, which allows each "concentric circle" to grow independently. Boston is going to get bad fast. How well people are able to distance themselves will determine how much these other "concentric circles" grow, and then ultimately how bad things get.

It's hard for me to believe about 5,000 cases right now.  That's such a miniscule percent, and look at all the celebrities (many celebs have not even been tested) who have it.  For sure Tom Cruise and a couple NBA players.  I'm thinking more NBA players have it than we know right now.  5,000 cases would mean about 1/50000 Americans.  Way too low.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 14, 2020, 02:38:51 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTFk34nhoI

Worth a watch.  He obviously doesn't bother looking at what his thumbnails lookl ike haha  ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Etlyvt9n_QE

screw it, lets do both for today.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 14, 2020, 03:02:44 PM

Quote from: statnik on March 14, 2020, 02:32:16 PM

It's hard for me to believe about 5,000 cases right now.  That's such a miniscule percent, and look at all the celebrities (many celebs have not even been tested) who have it.  For sure Tom Cruise and a couple NBA players.  I'm thinking more NBA players have it than we know right now.  5,000 cases would mean about 1/50000 Americans.  Way too low.

I would guess if celebs or nba players had it we would hear pretty fast.  I heard several nba teams have been tested with no new cases.  who knows we are all just guessing at this point and i mean everyone is jsut guessing nobody has a clue

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 14, 2020, 03:15:47 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 14, 2020, 12:29:13 PM

There was no chicken in my supermarket this morning and I heard it was the same elsewhere.  Is there a run on chicken with the toilet paper and Purell or is there some other reason?

 my guess is because it's cheap and you know the old wives tale cure for the cold?  good old fashioned chicken soup

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 14, 2020, 03:28:50 PM

Quote from: statnik on March 14, 2020, 02:32:16 PM

It's hard for me to believe about 5,000 cases right now.  That's such a miniscule percent, and look at all the celebrities (many celebs have not even been tested) who have it.  For sure Tom Cruise and a couple NBA players.  I'm thinking more NBA players have it than we know right now.  5,000 cases would mean about 1/50000 Americans.  Way too low.

Those are cases of people who travel by air often, and are then moving through airports with infected people often, and are interacting with people more often than a normal person (hand shakes, selfies, etc.).

That's why you are seeing some politicians infected.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: statnik on March 14, 2020, 04:08:56 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 14, 2020, 03:28:50 PM

Those are cases of people who travel by air often, and are then moving through airports with infected people often, and are interacting with people more often than a normal person (hand shakes, selfies, etc.).

That's why you are seeing some politicians infected.

It's a good point, but not sure if people realize just how minute 1/50000 of the population is to think that's all who currently have the virus.  I have serious doubts.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 14, 2020, 04:15:01 PM

NC governor just issued executive order closing schools for 2 weeks, effective immediately, and banning gatherings of 100+ people.

The order doesn't include restaurants, shopping malls or retail establishments. So I guess it's a lot more healthy for the public to have 100 people at a restaurant than at, say, a comedy club?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 14, 2020, 04:26:35 PM

Quote from: statnik on March 14, 2020, 04:08:56 PM

It's a good point, but not sure if people realize just how minute 1/50000 of the population is to think that's all who currently have the virus.  I have serious doubts.

What examples from other countries would make you think the number/percentage should be higher? Aren't all the percentages extremely low?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: statnik on March 14, 2020, 04:39:35 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 14, 2020, 04:26:35 PM

What examples from other countries would make you think the number/percentage should be higher? Aren't all the percentages extremely low?

Not 1/50,000 low in the highest affected countries, and I think we're on our way to being one of those highest affected.  Symptoms apparently often don't present for 7-14 days after being infected.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 14, 2020, 05:07:34 PM

A little levity:

(https://i.redd.it/tel4dnqhmnm41.jpg)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 14, 2020, 05:25:32 PM

Quote from: statnik on March 14, 2020, 04:39:35 PM

Not 1/50,000 low in the highest affected countries, and I think we're on our way to being one of those highest affected.  Symptoms apparently often don't present for 7-14 days after being infected.

it is actually 5.1(incubation period) days on average

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on March 14, 2020, 06:05:36 PM

Quote from: MU82 on March 14, 2020, 04:15:01 PM

NC governor just issued executive order closing schools for 2 weeks, effective immediately, and banning gatherings of 100+ people.

The order doesn't include restaurants, shopping malls or retail establishments. So I guess it's a lot more healthy for the public to have 100 people at a restaurant than at, say, a comedy club?

Sew, 99 peeps iz ok, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 14, 2020, 06:27:33 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 14, 2020, 12:29:13 PM

There was no chicken in my supermarket this morning and I heard it was the same elsewhere.  Is there a run on chicken with the toilet paper and Purell or is there some other reason?

  just read in an article(dr jenna macciochi-immunologist) about our immunity, it specifically mentions chicken soup-sometimes referred to as the "jewish antibiotic", a multi-amino acid molecule named carnosine(enhances the power of immune cells) and the release during cooking of a molecule resembling acetylcysteine which is commonly prescribed for respiratory ailments

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8112331/How-boost-immune-help-fight-coronavirus.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 14, 2020, 07:04:01 PM

Quote from: statnik on March 14, 2020, 04:39:35 PM

Not 1/50,000 low in the highest affected countries, and I think we're on our way to being one of those highest affected.  Symptoms apparently often don't present for 7-14 days after being infected.

China is currently at something like 1/20,000 counting all confirmed cases. So while 1/50,000 might be a little too low in a month or two, I don't think it's out of the question for us to currently be there.

And what makes you think the US will be one of the worst countries? Not trying to be argumentative, just curious to know what makes you think we'll be one of the most affected. Several other countries had already put measure in place to restrict travel and to quarantine infected people before cases started to grow here. I'm assuming we'll benefit a lot from that. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on March 14, 2020, 07:07:41 PM

The Daily Mail isn't exactly the Lancet...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on March 14, 2020, 07:11:25 PM

Trump tests negative

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/14/politics/trump-press-conference-coronavirus/index.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 14, 2020, 08:20:10 PM

Quote from: jficke13 on March 14, 2020, 07:07:41 PM

The Daily Mail isn't exactly the Lancet...

right, it's not the AJM or anything, but i checked on the author.  an MD of immunology.  as i said, just happened to be reading when i saw the thing about chicken soup.  just a point of view.  when it comes to diet, exercise, sleep, et.al. easy talking points

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 14, 2020, 08:38:53 PM

Interesting .. family friends are doctors in Madison, very brainy folks.  He was .. nonchalant about the future workload in the hospital. 

He was concerned about the high density areas (Milwaukee, and yeah, Madison) but was optimistic.  The remainder of the state is low density and he thought the hospitals could handle it. 

Was a very different view than the usual doom.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 14, 2020, 08:52:43 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 14, 2020, 08:38:53 PM

Interesting .. family friends are doctors in Madison, very brainy folks.  He was .. nonchalant about the future workload in the hospital. 

He was concerned about the high density areas (Milwaukee, and yeah, Madison) but was optimistic.  The remainder of the state is low density and he thought the hospitals could handle it. 

Was a very different view than the usual doom.

We should roughly know what we are in for in a week. From first symptoms to hospitalization usually takes 7 days. So patients that are asymptomatic right now, or have their first symptoms, would be flooding doctors and hospitals in a week.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 14, 2020, 09:00:17 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 14, 2020, 08:38:53 PM

Interesting .. family friends are doctors in Madison, very brainy folks.  He was .. nonchalant about the future workload in the hospital. 

He was concerned about the high density areas (Milwaukee, and yeah, Madison) but was optimistic.  The remainder of the state is low density and he thought the hospitals could handle it. 

Was a very different view than the usual doom.

That’s not how the rest of the state feels.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 14, 2020, 09:09:41 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 14, 2020, 09:00:17 PM

That’s not how the rest of the state feels.

The state or the state's medical professionals?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 14, 2020, 09:12:11 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 14, 2020, 08:38:53 PM

Interesting .. family friends are doctors in Madison, very brainy folks.  He was .. nonchalant about the future workload in the hospital. 

He was concerned about the high density areas (Milwaukee, and yeah, Madison) but was optimistic.  The remainder of the state is low density and he thought the hospitals could handle it. 

Was a very different view than the usual doom.

Doctors, where exactly?  At the UW, Meriter, SSM? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Marquette Fan on March 14, 2020, 09:13:28 PM

Cleveland State's Women's Basketball Coach Chris Kielsmeier tested positive:

https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/ncaa/ncaab/vikings-bb/cleveland-state-womens-basketball-coach-chris-kielsmeier-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/95-02cf029b-fba7-4bcf-b3f8-7ba590746754

That's the first college coach I've heard announced as testing positive (not necessarily the first of course - just the first I've heard)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 14, 2020, 09:13:58 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 14, 2020, 09:09:41 PM

The state or the state's medical professionals?

Let us all remember, that just because you have a plaque on the wall, doesn't mean you stay current with everything.  Not all medical professionals are created equal.

Source: earlier in this thread.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 14, 2020, 09:14:19 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 14, 2020, 09:09:41 PM

The state or the state's medical professionals?

The latter.  They’re worried.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 14, 2020, 09:18:52 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 14, 2020, 09:14:19 PM

The latter.  They’re worried.

My friend who is a nurse in the Chicago suburbs is also seriously concerned.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 14, 2020, 09:21:50 PM

timeline still does not make sense to me seems like we should be right with Italy.  Also been reading that some think the virus has been around here for longer than we think as lots of pneumonia since the new year that was worse than normal.  Who knows we will see by the end of this month i guess.

The panic and empty grocery shelves is off the charts at this point though

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on March 14, 2020, 09:26:25 PM

Quote from: Marquette Fan on March 14, 2020, 09:13:28 PM

Cleveland State's Women's Basketball Coach Chris Kielsmeier tested positive:

https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/ncaa/ncaab/vikings-bb/cleveland-state-womens-basketball-coach-chris-kielsmeier-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/95-02cf029b-fba7-4bcf-b3f8-7ba590746754

That's the first college coach I've heard announced as testing positive (not necessarily the first of course - just the first I've heard)

This will hurt recruiting

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 14, 2020, 09:27:20 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on March 14, 2020, 09:21:50 PM

timeline still does not make sense to me seems like we should be right with Italy.  Also been reading that some think the virus has been around here for longer than we think as lots of pneumonia since the new year that was worse than normal.  Who knows we will see by the end of this month i guess.

The panic and empty grocery shelves is off the charts at this point though

Some of the empty shelves is logical. Stocking up cause you might be sick isn’t the worst thing.

But the TP thing is fancinating.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 14, 2020, 09:28:10 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on March 14, 2020, 09:21:50 PM

timeline still does not make sense to me seems like we should be right with Italy.  Also been reading that some think the virus has been around here for longer than we think as lots of pneumonia since the new year that was worse than normal.  Who knows we will see by the end of this month i guess.

The panic and empty grocery shelves is off the charts at this point though

Everything was full and fine last night in Sun Prairie.  No one acting stupid either.

I was in Italy until 1/5.  Doubt it was there then. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 14, 2020, 09:33:46 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 14, 2020, 09:27:20 PM

Some of the empty shelves is logical. Sticking up cause you might be sick isn’t the worst thing.

But the TP thing is fancinating.

some yes but all is over the top.  I could not believe how empty the frozen goods were.  then you have the idiots selling the stuff online for profit.  That puts me over the edge especially things like childrens tylenol

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 14, 2020, 09:42:14 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 14, 2020, 09:27:20 PM

Some of the empty shelves is logical. Stocking up cause you might be sick isn’t the worst thing.

But the TP thing is fancinating.

The TP thing is actually pretty normal. My colleague that runs numbers for the CDC, back in mid February told me to stock up on TP then, because in a couple weeks you wouldn't be able to find any (they were right).

Apparently, it is well known that when people panic, TP is one of the first thing that people hoard. People have a fear of running out of TP.

Actually just talked to this colleague tonight. I am less optimistic about my numbers I presented earlier.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 14, 2020, 10:18:40 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 14, 2020, 09:13:58 PM

Let us all remember, that just because you have a plaque on the wall, doesn't mean you stay current with everything.  Not all medical professionals are created equal.

Source: earlier in this thread.

The idea that anyone with a different opinion must be uninformed doesn't make sense to me. It's not at all uncommon for two people to read the same information but draw different conclusions. Some medical professionals may be focusing on Italy and assuming that will be the case here in the US. Others may be reading about India or even areas in China outside Hubei and feeling reassured.

The experts we keep reading about seem to lean very heavily toward warning against worst case scenarios. And I fully understand the reasons why. But that doesn't mean we should expect that. And it doesn't mean that people are uninformed for looking at current data and recent actions and coming to a conclusion that isn't doom and gloom.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 14, 2020, 10:50:31 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 14, 2020, 10:18:40 PM

The idea that anyone with a different opinion must be uninformed doesn't make sense to me. It's not at all uncommon for two people to read the same information but draw different conclusions. Some medical professionals may be focusing on Italy and assuming that will be the case here in the US. Others may be reading about India or even areas in China outside Hubei and feeling reassured.

The experts we keep reading about seem to lean very heavily toward warning against worst case scenarios. And I fully understand the reasons why. But that doesn't mean we should expect that. And it doesn't mean that people are uninformed for looking at current data and recent actions and coming to a conclusion that isn't doom and gloom.

But that isn't what I said at all.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: seakm4 on March 14, 2020, 10:59:03 PM

My son started displaying symptoms tonight, so I took him to get tested.  A parent of one of his daycare classmates tested positive today.  Besides the testing area looking like a scene from outbreak, it was pretty fast and we were the only ones there for the 45 min it took. 

We're on self quarantine til our results come back, but stay safe out there.  I think it takes a case of it hitting home (our actual home) to shed some true light on the situation.

The Dr. basically said kids will be fine, they just are spreading it due to a lack of signs.  My boy is sleepy now, but was happy and playing all day.

He said my age group basically will get flu like symptoms and to not stress out about it unless there's severe shortness of breath (only being able to speak in one word increments was his sign to worry)

Lastly, he said 65+ is prayed on by the disease.  So anybody on here in that category should do their damndest to stay home and in self quarantine as much as humanly possible. 

Cheers everyone.  Any prayers would be appreciated, and we're going to take this one day at a time.  I will keep you all posted if you'd care for a separate superbar thread.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 14, 2020, 11:08:29 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 14, 2020, 10:18:40 PM

The experts we keep reading about seem to lean very heavily toward warning against worst case scenarios. And I fully understand the reasons why. But that doesn't mean we should expect that. And it doesn't mean that people are uninformed for looking at current data and recent actions and coming to a conclusion that isn't doom and gloom.

The experts usually give a range. What is usually presented by journalists is the high end of the range, so worst case scenario.

If you want to know the best case scenario, it would be on the end of the spectrum I said earlier, 5k cases right now that are in the midst of the illness.

Talking to a colleague made me a bit more pessimistic. They are very good at the modeling, Their best case scenarios are more dismal than, mine, but they were able to explain why my thoughts were consistent with theirs, but missing several key details.

In general, there are a lot of cases out there right now in the early stage of the illness, just getting symptoms, or still incubation period but spreading. How things ramp up this week, will tell us where in the range of possibilities we are.

I'm going to stick with optimism, but I'm prepared to be wrong.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 14, 2020, 11:15:05 PM

The leader of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Charlotte canceled most Masses late Saturday after Gov. Roy Cooper banned gatherings of 100 people or more.

Bishop Peter Jugis canceled Masses at all churches with a seating capacity of at least 100 until further notice. The diocese spans 46 counties.

Churches that seat 100 or fewer may continue offering Mass.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/coronavirus/article241205576.html?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 15, 2020, 01:06:13 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 14, 2020, 10:50:31 PM

But that isn't what I said at all.

Sorry, I must have misunderstood your reference then.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: NorthernDancerColt on March 15, 2020, 03:03:03 AM

Quote from: MU82 on March 14, 2020, 11:15:05 PM

The leader of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Charlotte canceled most Masses late Saturday after Gov. Roy Cooper banned gatherings of 100 people or more.

Bishop Peter Jugis canceled Masses at all churches with a seating capacity of at least 100 until further notice. The diocese spans 46 counties.

Churches that seat 100 or fewer may continue offering Mass.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/coronavirus/article241205576.html?

As long as this virus doesn’t spread “quicker than 11:00am mass at a Seaside resort” we will all be OK.

- Hologram AL

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 15, 2020, 07:28:51 AM

Interesting theory that is starting to emerge, and I'll preface this by saying it may all be hokum and hopes, but it does make some sense to me based on what we're seeing and not seeing.

The virus emerged in Wuhan in November, given home much travel goes on between the US and Wuhan its possible that Coronavirus hit the US earlier than we think. This school of thought hits the much harder flu season this year, worst it's been in 20 years. It may be a coincidence but perhaps this started in December in the US and we are seeing round 2 not round 1.

Again, maybe it's nothing. Better for us to be safe than sorry I guess

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Let's Go Warriors on March 15, 2020, 07:34:14 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 15, 2020, 07:28:51 AM

Interesting theory that is starting to emerge, and I'll preface this by saying it may all be hokum and hopes, but it does make some sense to me based on what we're seeing and not seeing.

The virus emerged in Wuhan in November, given home much travel goes on between the US and Wuhan its possible that Coronavirus hit the US earlier than we think. This school of thought hits the much harder flu season this year, worst it's been in 20 years. It may be a coincidence but perhaps this started in December in the US and we are seeing round 2 not round 1.

Again, maybe it's nothing. Better for us to be safe than sorry I guess

My wife and I saw this story way back in early to mid January and we came to the same conclusion back then.
This has been in the US for up to 8 weeks now.  Almost impossible not to be...

China hid it... China also had a time when they didn't know it was going on and people were moving about the countries.

Why are the death in total numbers so low especially when you consider a good majority came from the Senior Center in Washington?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 15, 2020, 07:42:41 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 15, 2020, 07:28:51 AM

Interesting theory that is starting to emerge, and I'll preface this by saying it may all be hokum and hopes, but it does make some sense to me based on what we're seeing and not seeing.

The virus emerged in Wuhan in November, given home much travel goes on between the US and Wuhan its possible that Coronavirus hit the US earlier than we think. This school of thought hits the much harder flu season this year, worst it's been in 20 years. It may be a coincidence but perhaps this started in December in the US and we are seeing round 2 not round 1.

Again, maybe it's nothing. Better for us to be safe than sorry I guess

So the theory is that the severity of the flu season really wasn't the flu?  I have two questions about that theory.

Are there a lot of incidences of people getting "the flu," even though they received the vaccine?  How does this account for what is occurring in Italy and Spain right now?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 15, 2020, 07:42:57 AM

news channels are coronavirus non stop 24/7-now this is ridiculous!!  so nothing else is going on in the world...nothing...i swear if there was an earthquake or a plane crash they would probably carry it as a scroll along bottom of the screen.  they have "expert" after "expert" all the same stuff, over and over and over.  if for some reason, something remotely new happens regarding the virus, they all rush over to that and pound pound pound, then back to the same old video of empty shelves, store fights, lines out the door...

 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 15, 2020, 07:59:10 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 15, 2020, 07:42:41 AM

So the theory is that the severity of the flu season really wasn't the flu?  I have two questions about that theory.

Are there a lot of incidences of people getting "the flu," even though they received the vaccine?  How does this account for what is occurring in Italy and Spain right now?

Lots of people get the flu after getting the vaccine as the vaccine is a mix strains of flu and if the strain(s) that emerge are different the vaccine is less effective.

As to Italy and Spain, they maybe seeing round 1 that we potentially saw already. The last 2 months the hospitals have been close to capacity with "regular flu" already. In theory Covid could have gone China-US-Europe instead of the other way around.

Again not saying its true and I'm sure there is an irrational hope component to it, but its plausible given how little we know about it

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 15, 2020, 08:08:33 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 15, 2020, 07:42:57 AM

news channels are coronavirus non stop 24/7-now this is ridiculous!!  so nothing else is going on in the world...nothing...i swear if there was an earthquake or a plane crash they would probably carry it as a scroll along bottom of the screen.  they have "expert" after "expert" all the same stuff, over and over and over.  if for some reason, something remotely new happens regarding the virus, they all rush over to that and pound pound pound, then back to the same old video of empty shelves, store fights, lines out the door...

Don't you think this is understandable?  What else should they talk about?

And you can watch something else you know.  Or turn off the TV and read a book.  Watch a movie.

I cut the 24 hour news channels out of my life years ago, and my life is better for it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 15, 2020, 08:10:36 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 15, 2020, 08:08:33 AM

Don't you think this is understandable?  What else should they talk about?

And you can watch something else you know.  Or turn off the TV and read a book.  Watch a movie.

I cut the 24 hour news channels out of my life years ago, and my life is better for it.

Amen

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on March 15, 2020, 08:41:46 AM

https://www.newsweek.com/boomer-remover-meme-trends-virus-coronavirus-social-media-covid-19-baby-boomers-1492190

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 15, 2020, 08:46:27 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 15, 2020, 07:28:51 AM

Interesting theory that is starting to emerge, and I'll preface this by saying it may all be hokum and hopes, but it does make some sense to me based on what we're seeing and not seeing.

The virus emerged in Wuhan in November, given home much travel goes on between the US and Wuhan its possible that Coronavirus hit the US earlier than we think. This school of thought hits the much harder flu season this year, worst it's been in 20 years. It may be a coincidence but perhaps this started in December in the US and we are seeing round 2 not round 1.

Again, maybe it's nothing. Better for us to be safe than sorry I guess

Wouldn't people be testing negative for the flu if this were the case, though? Or is there a way that standard flu tests would come back positive if someone actually had the coronavirus?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 15, 2020, 08:50:46 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 15, 2020, 07:42:57 AM

news channels are coronavirus non stop 24/7-now this is ridiculous!!  so nothing else is going on in the world...nothing...i swear if there was an earthquake or a plane crash they would probably carry it as a scroll along bottom of the screen.  they have "expert" after "expert" all the same stuff, over and over and over.  if for some reason, something remotely new happens regarding the virus, they all rush over to that and pound pound pound, then back to the same old video of empty shelves, store fights, lines out the door...

 

We are all worse off from the invention of the 24 hour news cycle. I don't think I've come across anyone who has positive views of that concept or the current products available.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 15, 2020, 08:52:56 AM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 15, 2020, 08:46:27 AM

Wouldn't people be testing negative for the flu if this were the case, though? Or is there a way that standard flu tests would come back positive if someone actually had the coronavirus?

This is the winner. All hospitalizations for the flu are going to have a corresponding flu test. If there were a lot of hospitalizations and deaths occurring with flu-like symptoms and flu-tests negative, the CDC would be notified and would be on the case.

That is what led China to eventually find this. Clusters of aggressive flu-like cases that test negative for the flu. Honestly, China figured this one out pretty quick. It took much much longer to figure out the bird flu.

Now we probably did have more missed cases of COVID-19 in mid-late January, but not earlier.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Eldon on March 15, 2020, 08:54:42 AM

The regular flu does not cause a dramatic shortness of breath like the Coronavirus does.

Unless these Americans had the flu + shortness of breath, I would chalk up any perceived increase in November and December's flu severity to "regular" flu.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 15, 2020, 08:57:28 AM

Look I love basketball as much as the next guy, but seriously people.  Find something else to do.  Yesterday after hitting the store, I took the dog for a walk, cleaned up my landscaping, watched a couple Youtube videos, took a nap, broke my "social distancing" regulations by getting a growler at my friend's microbrew and cooked dinner before I ever turned on the TV,

Watched a couple hours of ESPN's basketball love story, some BBC animal show, and went to bed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 15, 2020, 08:58:26 AM

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/14/opinion/coronavirus-pelosi-sick-leave.html

Maddening.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Goose on March 15, 2020, 09:11:16 AM

Fluff

Sound advice. Hope you and everyone on scoop are safe and sound.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 15, 2020, 09:29:50 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 15, 2020, 08:58:26 AM

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/14/opinion/coronavirus-pelosi-sick-leave.html

Maddening.

Mother, should I trust the government?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 15, 2020, 09:33:25 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 15, 2020, 09:29:50 AM

Mother, should I trust the government?

You should be able to in times like this.  But you are right.  It has proven to be untrustworthy. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 15, 2020, 09:35:30 AM

Quote from: seakm4 on March 14, 2020, 10:59:03 PM

My son started displaying symptoms tonight, so I took him to get tested.  A parent of one of his daycare classmates tested positive today.  Besides the testing area looking like a scene from outbreak, it was pretty fast and we were the only ones there for the 45 min it took. 

We're on self quarantine til our results come back, but stay safe out there.  I think it takes a case of it hitting home (our actual home) to shed some true light on the situation.

The Dr. basically said kids will be fine, they just are spreading it due to a lack of signs.  My boy is sleepy now, but was happy and playing all day.

He said my age group basically will get flu like symptoms and to not stress out about it unless there's severe shortness of breath (only being able to speak in one word increments was his sign to worry)

Lastly, he said 65+ is prayed on by the disease.  So anybody on here in that category should do their damndest to stay home and in self quarantine as much as humanly possible. 

Cheers everyone.  Any prayers would be appreciated, and we're going to take this one day at a time.  I will keep you all posted if you'd care for a separate superbar thread.

Wishing you and your family the best.

Out of curiosity, where did you get tested. The few people I know of with bonafide COVID-19 symptoms that have went to the doctors, have been unable to get tested.

Was this in the US?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Eldon on March 15, 2020, 09:38:06 AM

Quote from: seakm4 on March 14, 2020, 10:59:03 PM

My son started displaying symptoms tonight, so I took him to get tested.  A parent of one of his daycare classmates tested positive today.  Besides the testing area looking like a scene from outbreak, it was pretty fast and we were the only ones there for the 45 min it took. 

We're on self quarantine til our results come back, but stay safe out there.  I think it takes a case of it hitting home (our actual home) to shed some true light on the situation.

The Dr. basically said kids will be fine, they just are spreading it due to a lack of signs.  My boy is sleepy now, but was happy and playing all day.

He said my age group basically will get flu like symptoms and to not stress out about it unless there's severe shortness of breath (only being able to speak in one word increments was his sign to worry)

Lastly, he said 65+ is prayed on by the disease.  So anybody on here in that category should do their damndest to stay home and in self quarantine as much as humanly possible. 

Cheers everyone.  Any prayers would be appreciated, and we're going to take this one day at a time.  I will keep you all posted if you'd care for a separate superbar thread.

Indeed. 

On a related note, once Tom Hanks got the disease, I think a light switched on for most Americans; they could put a face to the virus.  I would bet any money that Hoiberg being sick on the sideline was a stark enough image that it was the catalyst that led the conferences to cancel their tournaments.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 15, 2020, 09:42:43 AM

Unpopular opinion.

Looking at the numbers coming out of Europe, the US should proactively lock it all down.  Wait our two weeks, and take our medicine.  The longer we deny this, the more people become carelessly infected, and we will end up in a lockdown anyway.  Do it, get it over with, save some lives.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Eldon on March 15, 2020, 09:43:52 AM

Quote from: forgetful on March 15, 2020, 09:35:30 AM

Wishing you and your family the best.

Out of curiosity, where did you get tested. The few people I know of with bonafide COVID-19 symptoms that have went to the doctors, have been unable to get tested.

Was this in the US?

A friend of mine (Boston) almost certainly has it.  Isn't sure where to go/what to do so has tried to stay home.  The most salient feature is shortness of breath. 

The degrees of separation are becoming fewer and fewer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 15, 2020, 09:48:03 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 15, 2020, 09:42:43 AM

Unpopular opinion.

Looking at the numbers coming out of Europe, the US should proactively lock it all down.  Wait our two weeks, and take our medicine.  The longer we deny this, the more people become carelessly infected, and we will end up in a lockdown anyway.  Do it, get it over with, save some lives.

I agree. It's only a matter of time, but the sooner we shut things down, the easier it will be in the long run. That said, I still think there should be exceptions for grocery shopping (w/ limits) and other limited travel.

FWIW - the MN governor is holding a press conference at 10am to "discuss plans for Minnesota schools." My wife works for the Rochester Public Schools, and is anticipating a long spring break.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 15, 2020, 09:49:51 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 15, 2020, 09:48:03 AM

I agree. It's only a matter of time, but the sooner we shut things down, the easier it will be in the long run.

FWIW - the MN governor is holding a press conference at 10am to "discuss plans for Minnesota schools." My wife works for the Rochester Public Schools, and is anticipating a long spring break.

Fauci is on Face the Nation right now, and says testing is still several days to a week away.  And if its that long, things will be much much worse.  I trust that he is doing the right thing because he has a ton of knowledge, and doesn't BS... but a week?  Woof.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 15, 2020, 09:50:30 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 15, 2020, 09:42:43 AM

Unpopular opinion.

Looking at the numbers coming out of Europe, the US should proactively lock it all down.  Wait our two weeks, and take our medicine.  The longer we deny this, the more people become carelessly infected, and we will end up in a lockdown anyway.  Do it, get it over with, save some lives.

My question is, after the two weeks, then what? It's not going to be gone at that point. Fewer infections, possibly, but once people venture back out, it kicks back up again.

That is what the UK is modeling. That people won't stick with a lockdown form much more than 2-3 weeks. So they are waiting to start the lockdown until later where it will have a bigger effect.

Honestly, not sure what the best plan is.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 15, 2020, 09:52:48 AM

Quote from: forgetful on March 15, 2020, 09:50:30 AM

My question is, after the two weeks, then what? It's not going to be gone at that point. Fewer infections, possibly, but once people venture back out, it kicks back up again.

That is what the UK is modeling. That people won't stick with a lockdown form much more than 2-3 weeks. So they are waiting to start the lockdown until later where it will have a bigger effect.

Honestly, not sure what the best plan is.

Even if it's 2 or 3 weeks, then a reprieve, then 2 or 3 weeks, etc...it phases the cases so medical professionals see cases in waves that wax and wane, as opposed to a continually increasing overflow.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 15, 2020, 09:55:45 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 15, 2020, 09:52:48 AM

Even if it's 2 or 3 weeks, then a reprieve, then 2 or 3 weeks, etc...it phases the cases so medical professionals see cases in waves that wax and wane, as opposed to a continually increasing overflow.

I understand, but if the UK is right, and people won't follow subsequent 2-3 week isolations, then the best bet may be to wait.

Also, what happens when a wave of patients start hitting hospitals, and they start rationing care to prioritize icu beds? I don't see people in the US handling that well, especially when you start to see wealthy/powerful people being treated differently. Get ready for death panels and special treatment, if the worst case scenarios hold up.

I'm not advocating one or the other, just highlighting how little we know, and the difficulty in making a decision.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 15, 2020, 09:58:33 AM

Quote from: forgetful on March 15, 2020, 09:50:30 AM

My question is, after the two weeks, then what? It's not going to be gone at that point. Fewer infections, possibly, but once people venture back out, it kicks back up again.

That is what the UK is modeling. That people won't stick with a lockdown form much more than 2-3 weeks. So they are waiting to start the lockdown until later where it will have a bigger effect.

Honestly, not sure what the best plan is.

What it does is it allows most people who have the disease to figure out that they are sick.  From the day they are infected until the day they show symptoms is within that time frame.  Plus it significantly slows the spread.  If you can't go anywhere without permission, you are home, and the only people you can spread it to are your family members.  This quickly brings down the R0.

Additionally, I'm not saying everything goes back to normal after two weeks, but it puts the spread in check, and we can reevaluate where we are at in the healthcare system at that point.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 15, 2020, 10:01:28 AM

Quote from: forgetful on March 15, 2020, 09:55:45 AM

I understand, but if the UK is right, and people won't follow subsequent 2-3 week isolations, then the best bet may be to wait.

Also, what happens when a wave of patients start hitting hospitals, and they start rationing care to prioritize icu beds? I don't see people in the US handling that well, especially when you start to see wealthy/powerful people being treated differently. Get ready for death panels and special treatment, if the worst case scenarios hold up.

I'm not advocating one or the other, just highlighting how little we know, and the difficulty in making a decision.

The US citizenry won't handle it well no matter what.  I also expect a rise in self inflicted GSWs.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Chili on March 15, 2020, 10:14:13 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 15, 2020, 09:58:33 AM

What it does is it allows most people who have the disease to figure out that they are sick.  From the day they are infected until the day they show symptoms is within that time frame.  Plus it significantly slows the spread.  If you can't go anywhere without permission, you are home, and the only people you can spread it to are your family members.  This quickly brings down the R0.

Additionally, I'm not saying everything goes back to normal after two weeks, but it puts the spread in check, and we can reevaluate where we are at in the healthcare system at that point.

Priztker is finally talking about ordering full lock down and closing bars / restaurants.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-coronavirus-pandemic-chicago-illinois-news-20200315-tn4rchjbazb73h6x2i4vz7v3xq-story.html (https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-coronavirus-pandemic-chicago-illinois-news-20200315-tn4rchjbazb73h6x2i4vz7v3xq-story.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 15, 2020, 10:17:50 AM

Quote from: Chili on March 15, 2020, 10:14:13 AM

Priztker is finally talking about ordering full lock down and closing bars / restaurants.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-coronavirus-pandemic-chicago-illinois-news-20200315-tn4rchjbazb73h6x2i4vz7v3xq-story.html (https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-coronavirus-pandemic-chicago-illinois-news-20200315-tn4rchjbazb73h6x2i4vz7v3xq-story.html)

Good... would have been better to do it before this weekend's festivities.  Heard the lines for most bars were out the doors as usual on St. Patrick's day.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 15, 2020, 10:19:42 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 15, 2020, 09:58:33 AM

What it does is it allows most people who have the disease to figure out that they are sick.  From the day they are infected until the day they show symptoms is within that time frame.  Plus it significantly slows the spread.  If you can't go anywhere without permission, you are home, and the only people you can spread it to are your family members.  This quickly brings down the R0.

Additionally, I'm not saying everything goes back to normal after two weeks, but it puts the spread in check, and we can reevaluate where we are at in the healthcare system at that point.

I agree, that is the model used successfully by other countries, but they had better testing capabilities, they didn't have political discord over the issue, and they had healthcare/employment systems that supported everyone.

I fear that the UK models, may be more applicable to us in the US. Obviously we are all in a wait and see format.

Just throwing out thoughts to see what others think.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Chili on March 15, 2020, 10:24:12 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 15, 2020, 10:17:50 AM

Good... would have been better to do it before this weekend's festivities.  Heard the lines for most bars were out the doors as usual on St. Patrick's day.

Yup. This is the reason I will be WFH for a least 2 weeks. Because of dumbassery.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Eldon on March 15, 2020, 10:24:51 AM

Ohio Leading the Way

“We’re basing this on science.” When the nation hesitated, Ohio starting shutting down large gatherings.

https://www.cantonrep.com/news/20200314/ohio-leading-way-on-us-coronavirus-response

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 15, 2020, 10:35:16 AM

Quote from: forgetful on March 15, 2020, 09:55:45 AM

I understand, but if the UK is right, and people won't follow subsequent 2-3 week isolations, then the best bet may be to wait.

Also, what happens when a wave of patients start hitting hospitals, and they start rationing care to prioritize icu beds? I don't see people in the US handling that well, especially when you start to see wealthy/powerful people being treated differently. Get ready for death panels and special treatment, if the worst case scenarios hold up.

I'm not advocating one or the other, just highlighting how little we know, and the difficulty in making a decision.

  france isn't taking the "lockdowns" very good-rioting, over turning cars, fires, etc  as a country, they wouldn't have been my first choice for intolerance of the lockdowns

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 15, 2020, 10:36:47 AM

meriter hospital, madsion is restricting visitation to one family member(or significant) per patient as of yesterday. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 15, 2020, 10:36:55 AM

Quote from: forgetful on March 15, 2020, 09:55:45 AM

I understand, but if the UK is right, and people won't follow subsequent 2-3 week isolations, then the best bet may be to wait.

Also, what happens when a wave of patients start hitting hospitals, and they start rationing care to prioritize icu beds? I don't see people in the US handling that well, especially when you start to see wealthy/powerful people being treated differently. Get ready for death panels and special treatment, if the worst case scenarios hold up.

I'm not advocating one or the other, just highlighting how little we know, and the difficulty in making a decision.

Agreed. The best we can do is the best we can do...but it's difficult to figure out what the best is, given the combo of science and human nature.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on March 15, 2020, 10:42:35 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 15, 2020, 10:17:50 AM

Good... would have been better to do it before this weekend's festivities.  Heard the lines for most bars were out the doors as usual on St. Patrick's day.

Yep. Those idiots and the Stoolies can unnatural carnal knowledge right off.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 15, 2020, 10:42:59 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 15, 2020, 09:42:43 AM

Unpopular opinion.

Looking at the numbers coming out of Europe, the US should proactively lock it all down.  Wait our two weeks, and take our medicine.  The longer we deny this, the more people become carelessly infected, and we will end up in a lockdown anyway.  Do it, get it over with, save some lives.

Making that decision would very likely result in the permanent closing of many small businesses and very painful financial situations for those living paycheck to paycheck. And you've got to think the stock market would not respond well to that news. The cost of that decision would be enormous from an economic standpoint.

And while it sounds cold to talk dollars when the goal is to save lives, it's a very real tradeoff that needs to be considered. Knowing that this primarily affects older citizens or those with current health issues, is it worth putting a not-insignificant percentage of the population into substantial financial risk and eroding trillions of dollars of investments in an attempt to slow the spread of a virus that is extremely unlikely to affect the overwhelming majority of the population?

I only bring this up to point out show how complex this is and how a decision may have benefits in one area but consequences in another. There are many more issues to consider here beyond just healthcare. And that's exactly why there isn't a simple playbook for this and why each country has varying responses to the crisis. I certainly don't know what the "right" answer is, but I do know that any decision here is very hard to make.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 15, 2020, 10:43:59 AM

if testing is a week away how are people being tested now? last week? how are cases confirmed without testing?  if testing is still out and we are just guessing on the number of cases then the numbers are lower than we all think

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 15, 2020, 10:46:12 AM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 15, 2020, 10:42:59 AM

Making that decision would very likely result in the permanent closing of many small businesses and very painful financial situations for those living paycheck to paycheck. And you've got to think the stock market would not respond well to that news. The cost of that decision would be enormous from an economic standpoint.

Largely agree, but would add that this is going to be huge from an economic standpoint regardless of the decision.  In fact, I don't *believe* the end result is going to be much different "shutdown" or "continue as normal", because "normal" is certainly not going to be "normal".

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 15, 2020, 10:47:13 AM

Quote from: injuryBug on March 15, 2020, 10:43:59 AM

if testing is a week away how are people being tested now? last week? how are cases confirmed without testing?  if testing is still out and we are just guessing on the number of cases then the numbers are lower than we all think

No no, I should have said mass testing... the type that the VP said would be in the millions by the end of the week Friday the 13th.  There are, of course, some tests available... but there needed to be a production ramp up and labs needed time to prepare to do the tests. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Chili on March 15, 2020, 10:59:11 AM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 15, 2020, 10:42:59 AM

Making that decision would very likely result in the permanent closing of many small businesses and very painful financial situations for those living paycheck to paycheck. And you've got to think the stock market would not respond well to that news. The cost of that decision would be enormous from an economic standpoint.

And while it sounds cold to talk dollars when the goal is to save lives, it's a very real tradeoff that needs to be considered. Knowing that this primarily affects older citizens or those with current health issues, is it worth putting a not-insignificant percentage of the population into substantial financial risk and eroding trillions of dollars of investments in an attempt to slow the spread of a virus that is extremely unlikely to affect the overwhelming majority of the population?

I only bring this up to point out show how complex this is and how a decision may have benefits in one area but consequences in another. There are many more issues to consider here beyond just healthcare. And that's exactly why there isn't a simple playbook for this and why each country has varying responses to the crisis. I certainly don't know what the "right" answer is, but I do know that any decision here is very hard to make.

Counter opinion to that written by an MU BUAD Alum:

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-03-12/stock-markets-need-to-see-the-government-panic (https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-03-12/stock-markets-need-to-see-the-government-panic)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 15, 2020, 11:02:05 AM

Economic impact already started.
Front page of New Haven Register this morning says 2,000 state residents filed for unemployment on Friday after a very normal quiet week.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jsglow on March 15, 2020, 11:07:01 AM

Quote from: seakm4 on March 14, 2020, 10:59:03 PM

My son started displaying symptoms tonight, so I took him to get tested.  A parent of one of his daycare classmates tested positive today.  Besides the testing area looking like a scene from outbreak, it was pretty fast and we were the only ones there for the 45 min it took. 

We're on self quarantine til our results come back, but stay safe out there.  I think it takes a case of it hitting home (our actual home) to shed some true light on the situation.

The Dr. basically said kids will be fine, they just are spreading it due to a lack of signs.  My boy is sleepy now, but was happy and playing all day.

He said my age group basically will get flu like symptoms and to not stress out about it unless there's severe shortness of breath (only being able to speak in one word increments was his sign to worry)

Lastly, he said 65+ is prayed on by the disease.  So anybody on here in that category should do their damndest to stay home and in self quarantine as much as humanly possible. 

Cheers everyone.  Any prayers would be appreciated, and we're going to take this one day at a time.  I will keep you all posted if you'd care for a separate superbar thread.

Prayers for your health in your family. I think starting a separate thread is an excellent idea. Perhaps we can use it to both follow your story and to serve as a tool for mutual support for Scoopers that test positive. Those folks will need friends and family to pitch in during the quarantine. No reason a fellow scooper can't make arrangements to drop off supplies on your front porch if it comes to that.  We'll all get through this together.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 15, 2020, 11:12:50 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 15, 2020, 11:02:05 AM

Economic impact already started.
Front page of New Haven Register this morning says 2,000 state residents filed for unemployment on Friday after a very normal quiet week.

Makes sense. I would assume hiring will be a lower priority for a lot of companies for a little while here. That message might be getting out to applicants who now see a more urgent need to apply for unemployment benefits.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on March 15, 2020, 11:33:28 AM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 15, 2020, 11:12:50 AM

Makes sense. I would assume hiring will be a lower priority for a lot of companies for a little while here. That message might be getting out to applicants who now see a more urgent need to apply for unemployment benefits.

.

My retirement date is in 3 weeks, and my employer isn't able to bring people in for interviews for my replacement.  Looks like I will be getting a nice consulting contract out of the deal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 15, 2020, 12:07:06 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on March 15, 2020, 11:33:28 AM

.

My retirement date is in 3 weeks, and my employer isn't able to bring people in for interviews for my replacement.  Looks like I will be getting a nice consulting contract out of the deal.

Your company seems pretty dumb to be looking to start interviews for a known retirement of an exec only 3 weeks before said retirement date.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 15, 2020, 12:12:36 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 15, 2020, 10:42:59 AM

I only bring this up to point out show how complex this is and how a decision may have benefits in one area but consequences in another. There are many more issues to consider here beyond just healthcare. And that's exactly why there isn't a simple playbook for this and why each country has varying responses to the crisis. I certainly don't know what the "right" answer is, but I do know that any decision here is very hard to make.

Agreed. One of the difficult things about decision making is the 2nd guessing after the fact. One has to collect all the data and make the best decision for everyone at the time.

I fear that with this being an election year, individuals will make decisions based on what helps them in their next election most, and not what is the best long-term decision. I hope people on both sides of the aisle recognize some things are more important than the next election.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 15, 2020, 12:15:16 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 15, 2020, 12:12:36 PM

Agreed. One of the difficult things about decision making is the 2nd guessing after the fact. One has to collect all the data and make the best decision for everyone at the time.

I fear that with this being an election year, individuals will make decisions based on what helps them in their next election most, and not what is the best long-term decision. I hope people on both sides of the aisle recognize some things are more important than the next election.

Look at all of the fools in Washington, you think that more than 1 or 2 are looking beyond their next election?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 15, 2020, 12:31:14 PM

Local hospitals near me are having problems with employees stealing masks, to take home or resell. They were already in short supply.

Also a great read on diagnosis problems, and a potential dangerous mix of people in Louisiana (one of the hardest hit states by population), ignoring the issue and partying on Bourbon Street.

https://www.nola.com/news/coronavirus/article_35531ff4-66d9-11ea-95b0-7797f71d169a.html?fbclid=IwAR2EUaMJ85ym-k6kejn5fwsGWu0WVai_StMkOXYtKW3oy-nZpcJPxERluP4

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 15, 2020, 12:46:12 PM

Quote from: Chili on March 15, 2020, 10:59:11 AM

Counter opinion to that written by an MU BUAD Alum:

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-03-12/stock-markets-need-to-see-the-government-panic (https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-03-12/stock-markets-need-to-see-the-government-panic)

Interesting point of view by a guy who clearly knows what he's talking about. Friday's reaction to the president's press conference confirms his point of view.

My worry would be that we would see stocks slip again with a widespread lockdown, because that would introduce additional uncertainties. And that uncertainty about the duration and impact of a lockdown would create another round of selling. I'm nowhere near as informed as Bianco on this, but that outcome seems logical/probable to me. I'm curious to see if he posts a follow-up to that piece now that we've seen the markets respond to the initial plans.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on March 15, 2020, 12:47:59 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 15, 2020, 12:07:06 PM

Your company seems pretty dumb to be looking to start interviews for a known retirement of an exec only 3 weeks before said retirement date.

These are second interviews, but yeah, the wheels turn a little slowly in our organization sometimes.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 15, 2020, 12:52:26 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 15, 2020, 12:46:12 PM

Interesting point of view by a guy who clearly knows what he's talking about. Friday's reaction to the president's press conference confirms his point of view.

My worry would be that we would see stocks slip again with a widespread lockdown, because that would introduce additional uncertainties. And that uncertainty about the duration and impact of a lockdown would create another round of selling. I'm nowhere near as informed as Bianco on this, but that outcome seems logical/probable to me. I'm curious to see if he posts a follow-up to that piece now that we've seen the markets respond to the initial plans.

I think peak uncertainty is not knowing the number of infections and watching Italy (so now). If we do things to contain and understand, the market can start to bet on what is the duration of the recession and what type of recovery occurs. 

So far the only places this has taken root and been contained either completely shuttered the economy (China-maybe Italy next) or went after a rigorous program to test and contain (South Korea).  So kind of inevitable that there will be an impact and why the market wants govt action on the virus and not just a bunch of stimulus. 

I’m not saying volatility will stop, but the only way demand returns is to contain the virus.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 15, 2020, 01:35:03 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 15, 2020, 12:31:14 PM

Local hospitals near me are having problems with employees stealing masks, to take home or resell. They were already in short supply.

Also a great read on diagnosis problems, and a potential dangerous mix of people in Louisiana (one of the hardest hit states by population), ignoring the issue and partying on Bourbon Street.

https://www.nola.com/news/coronavirus/article_35531ff4-66d9-11ea-95b0-7797f71d169a.html?fbclid=IwAR2EUaMJ85ym-k6kejn5fwsGWu0WVai_StMkOXYtKW3oy-nZpcJPxERluP4

New Orleans Police Cleared Out Bourbon Street To Prevent The Spread Of The Coronavirus

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/claudiakoerner/new-orleans-police-bourbon-street-coronavirus-bars

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 15, 2020, 01:41:33 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on March 15, 2020, 01:35:03 PM

New Orleans Police Cleared Out Bourbon Street To Prevent The Spread Of The Coronavirus

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/claudiakoerner/new-orleans-police-bourbon-street-coronavirus-bars

Glad they did it eventually, but late on Saturday (before the police rolled in), Bourbon street was packed.

Orlean's parish had 65 active cases as it was, the delay in shutting down bars/bourbon street certainly was not going to help.

Also, worldwide we now have more cases in the rest of the world than China, and more active cases than those that have been resolved.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 15, 2020, 01:44:32 PM

https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/fj1owh/over_half_of_the_coronavirus_patients_in/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/fj1owh/over_half_of_the_coronavirus_patients_in/)

Welllllllllllllllll.... that's not good.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 15, 2020, 02:02:46 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 15, 2020, 01:44:32 PM

https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/fj1owh/over_half_of_the_coronavirus_patients_in/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/fj1owh/over_half_of_the_coronavirus_patients_in/)

Welllllllllllllllll.... that's not good.

I read the same thing about France this morning.

The question I have - both for France and the Netherlands - is how many of these patients are in other "high risk" categories, like lung or heart disease, diabetes, etc.? If most are in higher risk categories, maybe it would be prudent to recommend more rigid self-quarantine for those individuals. But if large numbers of "low risk" patients are included, the only "solution" might be more draconian isolation for everyone....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 15, 2020, 02:05:21 PM

My wife and I ventured to our local Costco this morning, shortly after it opened at 10 a.m.

I've never seen the parking lot more full. Not at Xmas time or any time. When we got to the entrance, an employee was spraying paper towels with some kind of disinfectant and handing a sheet to each person entering - they apparently were out of disinfectant sheets.

However, while it was packed inside, I was impressed with how orderly everything was. They even had toilet paper, milk, bread, plenty of veggies, meat, etc. Much better stocked than I expected.

We got everything on our list and a few other things too. Went to the self-checkout line and waited less than 5 minutes.

Also filled up the tank - $1.79.9/gal for unleaded regular.

I've heard other Costcos aren't as well-stocked and the experience was far slower, but our experience far exceeded expectations.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 15, 2020, 02:06:18 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 15, 2020, 01:44:32 PM

https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/fj1owh/over_half_of_the_coronavirus_patients_in/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/fj1owh/over_half_of_the_coronavirus_patients_in/)

Welllllllllllllllll.... that's not good.

Well two posts down, apparently Pornhub is offering free premium access to all Italians and donating profits, so at least there's that.

But more seriously, this isn't surprising, if this wasn't the case, Italy wouldn't have to be denying ICU treatments to those over 60. Most nations have reported similar statistics.

It's also not likely due to other "high-risk" categories. It's simply an aspect of the disease, it hits about 5% of people extremely hard. If you are old and/or have co-morbidities and are part of that 5% you likely die. If you are young and have access to an ICU and ventilator, you survive.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 15, 2020, 02:45:59 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 15, 2020, 01:44:32 PM

https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/fj1owh/over_half_of_the_coronavirus_patients_in/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/fj1owh/over_half_of_the_coronavirus_patients_in/)

Welllllllllllllllll.... that's not good.

From that...

Quote

Main risk factor for obesity
The average age of all covid-19 ic patients in Lombardy, Italy, was 70 years, according to which 'the main risk factor for ic uptake is obesity'.

So... There goes eng's smoking theory

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on March 15, 2020, 02:56:59 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 15, 2020, 09:55:45 AM

I understand, but if the UK is right, and people won't follow subsequent 2-3 week isolations, then the best bet may be to wait.

Also, what happens when a wave of patients start hitting hospitals, and they start rationing care to prioritize icu beds? I don't see people in the US handling that well, especially when you start to see wealthy/powerful people being treated differently. Get ready for death panels and special treatment, if the worst case scenarios hold up.

I'm not advocating one or the other, just highlighting how little we know, and the difficulty in making a decision.

The cruise ships will become hospitals for quarantine for less care patients

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 15, 2020, 03:32:40 PM

Good explanation.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 15, 2020, 03:45:35 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on March 15, 2020, 01:35:03 PM

New Orleans Police Cleared Out Bourbon Street To Prevent The Spread Of The Coronavirus

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/claudiakoerner/new-orleans-police-bourbon-street-coronavirus-bars

We had our fantasy baseball draft yesterday in Wisconsin and one of the guys owns a bar and lives in NO. He said while people are still going out, it isn't even anywhere close to the normal crowd sizes.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 15, 2020, 04:11:16 PM

Illinois and Ohio closing bars and restaurants to dining-in patrons

I imagine this will become the norm in the next few days across the country

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 15, 2020, 04:14:04 PM

Bioethics classes worldwide are probably discussing the following (potential real-world) scenario:

Imagine you're a doc and have one ventilator available. You are notified of two incoming patients, both of whom need ventilatory support. They will arrive at about the same time. One is a previously healthy 80-year old, and the other is a previously healthy 40 year old. Neither has any known risk factors for covid-19 (except, of course, the mere fact that the 80-year old is 80 years old). Who gets the ventilator? First-come, first-served? More likely to survive (i.e., the 40-year old)?

An interesting twist:

*What if the 80-year old got there first and you weren't aware of the 40-year old, so you started prepping the patient for the ventilator and informed the family about it, but haven't yet put the patient on the ventilator...and then you learn about the 40-year old? Do you tell the 80-year old and family that the ventilator needs to be used on a patient more likely to benefit?

Another interesting twist:

*What if the 80-year old is on the ventilator but doing very poorly, and then the 40-year old arrives? Do you disconnect the 80-year old sooner than you otherwise would, in order to treat a patient you think you can save?

I sure as hell hope it doesn't get to this point....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 15, 2020, 04:14:26 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 15, 2020, 04:11:16 PM

Illinois and Ohio closing bars and restaurants to dining-in patrons

I imagine this will become the norm in the next few days across the country

With St. Patricks Day on Tuesday, they should announce this tomorrow.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 15, 2020, 04:19:52 PM

Fed just cut interest rate by a full point in an attempt to avert economic collapse....

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/15/business/economy/federal-reserve-coronavirus.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: DegenerateDish on March 15, 2020, 04:21:40 PM

This isn’t intended to be political, but Illinois chugging forward with its primary on Tuesday seems foolish.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 15, 2020, 04:30:06 PM

Quote from: MUDish on March 15, 2020, 04:21:40 PM

This isn’t intended to be political, but Illinois chugging forward with its primary on Tuesday seems foolish.

Yep. We are telling people not to go anywhere where they expect a big crowd, so it's irresponsible to hold a very important event that ordinarily would (and should) attract a big crowd.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 15, 2020, 04:34:19 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 15, 2020, 04:14:04 PM

Bioethics classes worldwide are probably discussing the following (potential real-world) scenario:

Imagine you're a doc and have one ventilator available. You are notified of two incoming patients, both of whom need ventilatory support. They will arrive at about the same time. One is a previously healthy 80-year old, and the other is a previously healthy 40 year old. Neither has any known risk factors for covid-19 (except, of course, the mere fact that the 80-year old is 80 years old). Who gets the ventilator? First-come, first-served? More likely to survive (i.e., the 40-year old)?

An interesting twist:

*What if the 80-year old got there first and you weren't aware of the 40-year old, so you started prepping the patient for the ventilator and informed the family about it, but haven't yet put the patient on the ventilator...and then you learn about the 40-year old? Do you tell the 80-year old and family that the ventilator needs to be used on a patient more likely to benefit?

Another interesting twist:

*What if the 80-year old is on the ventilator but doing very poorly, and then the 40-year old arrives? Do you disconnect the 80-year old sooner than you otherwise would, in order to treat a patient you think you can save?

I sure as hell hope it doesn't get to this point....

From the reports out of Italy, they are facing dilemmas like this regularly.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 15, 2020, 04:48:02 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 15, 2020, 04:34:19 PM

From the reports out of Italy, they are facing dilemmas like this regularly.

I have just seen vague references to "shortages" of equipment and supplies, but I wouldn't be surprised if these are some of the scenarios they're referring to. If you've read anything more specific, I'd love to see it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 15, 2020, 05:19:23 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 15, 2020, 04:48:02 PM

I have just seen vague references to "shortages" of equipment and supplies, but I wouldn't be surprised if these are some of the scenarios they're referring to. If you've read anything more specific, I'd love to see it.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-italy-hospitals-doctor-lockdown-quarantine-intensive-care-a9401186.html

See the link.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 15, 2020, 05:56:41 PM

Quote from: MUDish on March 15, 2020, 04:21:40 PM

This isn’t intended to be political, but Illinois chugging forward with its primary on Tuesday seems foolish.

If this virus happened under any other president in history, it would be a no-brainer. But these are dire times.

Still, I'll be shocked if it isn't postponed by midday tomorrow.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on March 15, 2020, 06:01:32 PM

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/5052788002

Some hope but I think these are months away.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 15, 2020, 06:08:11 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 15, 2020, 05:19:23 PM

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-italy-hospitals-doctor-lockdown-quarantine-intensive-care-a9401186.html

See the link.

Thanks. Very sad situation. I sure hope we can minimize the need to make those choices here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 15, 2020, 06:09:07 PM

Having seen the press conference today, my take away is that we are a long ways from getting a handle on this from the standpoint of testing.

Testing is still going to be rationed for what sounds like 2-weeks to first responders and the elderly, or critically sick. That means that the garden variety illness will still be out there, undetected, and possibly circulating virus, spreading it further.

That means we are at the mercy of people following extreme social distancing to stem a massive growth of this illness.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 15, 2020, 06:27:37 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 15, 2020, 06:09:07 PM

That means we are at the mercy of people following extreme social distancing to stem a massive growth of this illness.

"Rep. Devin Nunes of California urged Americans to go out and visit bars and restaurants on Sunday, amid mounting calls by experts for people to avoid public gatherings to avoid spreading coronavirus, which causes the disease COVID-19."
https://news.yahoo.com/local-pub-while-experts-call-182229550.html

Well that's helpful.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on March 15, 2020, 06:32:44 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 15, 2020, 06:27:37 PM

"Rep. Devin Nunes of California urged Americans to go out and visit bars and restaurants on Sunday, amid mounting calls by experts for people to avoid public gatherings to avoid spreading coronavirus, which causes the disease COVID-19."
https://news.yahoo.com/local-pub-while-experts-call-182229550.html

Well that's helpful.

I believe CA closed all bars and restaurants and only allow delivery, takeout, and drive through.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 15, 2020, 06:33:15 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 15, 2020, 06:27:37 PM

"Rep. Devin Nunes of California urged Americans to go out and visit bars and restaurants on Sunday, amid mounting calls by experts for people to avoid public gatherings to avoid spreading coronavirus, which causes the disease COVID-19."
https://news.yahoo.com/local-pub-while-experts-call-182229550.html

Well that's helpful.

Consider who his idol is.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on March 15, 2020, 06:34:02 PM

CDC recommends no public gatherings of 50+ for the next 8 weeks.

I think June looks like the best case for baseball. Not sure what the NBA and NHL will do.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 15, 2020, 06:36:09 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 15, 2020, 06:09:07 PM

Having seen the press conference today, my take away is that we are a long ways from getting a handle on this from the standpoint of testing.

Testing is still going to be rationed for what sounds like 2-weeks to first responders and the elderly, or critically sick. That means that the garden variety illness will still be out there, undetected, and possibly circulating virus, spreading it further.

That means we are at the mercy of people following extreme social distancing to stem a massive growth of this illness.

You're probably right...but there appear to be regions where lower-risk people can get tested if they're symptomatic.

Just one relevant data point - I know of a twenty-sonething kid in rural Iowa who developed a sore throat and dry scratchy cough, and he got tested yesterday. Didn't hear the results, but I sure hope the kid tests negative...among other things, because he works in retail and has had contact with LOTS of people lately.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 15, 2020, 06:40:23 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 15, 2020, 04:19:52 PM

Fed just cut interest rate by a full point in an attempt to avert economic collapse....

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/15/business/economy/federal-reserve-coronavirus.html

And 700 billion in  QE

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 15, 2020, 06:41:27 PM

My hospital - and most in state of Indiana - have suspended elective surgeries.

Unprecedented

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: lostpassword on March 15, 2020, 06:42:13 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 15, 2020, 06:27:37 PM

"Rep. Devin Nunes of California urged Americans to go out and visit bars and restaurants on Sunday, amid mounting calls by experts for people to avoid public gatherings to avoid spreading coronavirus, which causes the disease COVID-19."
https://news.yahoo.com/local-pub-while-experts-call-182229550.html

Well that's helpful.

This doesn't help either:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/15/politics/oklahoma-governor-deleted-tweet-coronavirus/index.html

I found this simulator interesting:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: DegenerateDish on March 15, 2020, 06:52:37 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 15, 2020, 05:56:41 PM

If this virus happened under any other president in history, it would be a no-brainer. But these are dire times.

Still, I'll be shocked if it isn't postponed by midday tomorrow.

I believe it would be Pritzker’s decision (?). It seems contradictory to have restaurants/bars close (dine in) and yet have people at polling places (especially older people). Two other states postponed, I’m not sure why Illinois is hell bent on having Tuesday be voting day.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 15, 2020, 07:19:49 PM

At least get it right if you are going to fly off the handle about politics.  Dish is talking about IL.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Let's Go Warriors on March 15, 2020, 07:22:17 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 15, 2020, 07:19:49 PM

At least get it right if you are going to fly off the handle about politics.  Dish is talking about IL.

Sorry
What is someone supposed to take from "This Administration"

Also.

I really believe
Trump
Democrats
Media

All really let us down.  This was an issue in early January...
They were all fighting over impeachment instead.

A$$clowns all of them...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 15, 2020, 07:25:46 PM

Barely the Chinese fully appreciated what they had on 1/15.  Just take a breath man.  It is a fact that one party controls the bureaucracy.  So there will be stones thrown.   Were all in this together.  Good news is that everyone is now taking this seriously and the Dr’s seem to be directing the policy recommendations.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 15, 2020, 07:27:05 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 15, 2020, 06:36:09 PM

You're probably right...but there appear to be regions where lower-risk people can get tested if they're symptomatic.

Just one relevant data point - I know of a twenty-sonething kid in rural Iowa who developed a sore throat and dry scratchy cough, and he got tested yesterday. Didn't hear the results, but I sure hope the kid tests negative...among other things, because he works in retail and has had contact with LOTS of people lately.

I'm afraid that there are very poor policies and guidance on these issues, so it will be a very random process, highly dependent on where you live.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 15, 2020, 07:33:14 PM

Quote from: Let's Go Warriors on March 15, 2020, 07:22:17 PM

Sorry
What is someone supposed to take from "This Administration"

Also.

I really believe
Trump
Democrats
Media

All really let us down.  This was an issue in early January...
They were all fighting over impeachment instead.

A$$clowns all of them...

We're trying to leave political finger pointing out of it.  But if you really think Trump is the politician  who has handled this the best - well, you're clueless.  But we agree, they're all assclowns, it's just that the assclown at the top gets the most criticism - much like a head coach does.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 15, 2020, 07:38:01 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 15, 2020, 07:33:14 PM

But we agree, they're all assclowns, it's just that the assclown at the top gets the most criticism - much like a head coach does.

Except Xi.  For some reason there isn’t anyone around that criticizes him. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on March 15, 2020, 07:41:48 PM

Quote from: MUDish on March 15, 2020, 06:52:37 PM

I believe it would be Pritzker’s decision (?). It seems contradictory to have restaurants/bars close (dine in) and yet have people at polling places (especially older people). Two other states postponed, I’m not sure why Illinois is hell bent on having Tuesday be voting day.

Because Illinois.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on March 15, 2020, 07:47:30 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 15, 2020, 06:41:27 PM

My hospital - and most in state of Indiana - have suspended elective surgeries.

Unprecedented

NYC just enacted the same this afternoon

Quote from: MUfan12 on March 15, 2020, 06:34:02 PM

I think June looks like the best case for baseball. Not sure what the NBA and NHL will do.

I don’t know about the NHL, but there has been chatter for a long time about the NBA starting later and ending later, avoiding more head to head matchups with football. Postponing the season and carrying it out through the summer would be a really interesting test of that potential viability.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 15, 2020, 07:56:21 PM

Quote from: MUDish on March 15, 2020, 06:52:37 PM

I believe it would be Pritzker’s decision (?). It seems contradictory to have restaurants/bars close (dine in) and yet have people at polling places (especially older people). Two other states postponed, I’m not sure why Illinois is hell bent on having Tuesday be voting day.

I agree with all you say here, Dish.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 15, 2020, 08:01:44 PM

Quote from: MUDish on March 15, 2020, 06:52:37 PM

I believe it would be Pritzker’s decision (?). It seems contradictory to have restaurants/bars close (dine in) and yet have people at polling places (especially older people). Two other states postponed, I’m not sure why Illinois is hell bent on having Tuesday be voting day.

Not necessarily defending the decision, but there's a vastly significant difference between a person's experience in a polling place and a person's experience in a bar or restaurant. Most people - especially in a primary when turnout is very low - are in and out of their polling place in a matter of minutes, with little to no close contact with others.
On the other hand, people sit in bars and restaurants for hours at a time, usually surrounded by many others, touching multiple surfaces, using restrooms and often touching or exchanging glasses, plates, money, etc.

A case can be made for postponing the primary, I suppose, but that doesn't logically follow the restaurant bar closings. Rather, the polling place is much more akin to picking up food from a deliveryman or drive-through window - which will continue in Illinois - than it is sitting down for a meal or happy hour.

FWIW, it's not just Illinois. Ohio, Florida and Arizona also are holding primaries Tuesday.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: CreightonWarrior on March 15, 2020, 08:09:10 PM

Someone in Omaha who just tested positive for Coronavirus attended both the Creighton/Georgetown and Creighton/Seton Hall games last weeks so that's really comforting. Also reminds me that the last game of the regular season was JUST 8 days ago. Felt like a month ago.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 15, 2020, 08:09:21 PM

Quote from: MU82 on March 15, 2020, 06:33:15 PM

Consider who his idol is.

Putin.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 15, 2020, 08:19:03 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 15, 2020, 07:33:14 PM

We're trying to leave political finger pointing out of it.  But if you really think Trump is the politician  who has handled this the best - well, you're clueless.

An absolute disaster from the get-go: downplaying the coronavirus; repeatedly lying about its potential effect on Americans and our economy; doubling-down whenever challenged with facts;  negating his own experts' opinions, often at the same press conference

Rocky's edit: I realize I'm enabling here.  But hey, don't go overboard.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 15, 2020, 08:28:08 PM

Quote from: MUDish on March 15, 2020, 08:22:57 PM

Dude, wtf are you talking about?

LGW had a post claiming that Trump acted before any other politicians did.  Because it was so absurd, it was deleted.  He then complained (we left that), and sent me a PM that my bias was showing (OK, fine), and that he's done here forever (also fine).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: DegenerateDish on March 15, 2020, 08:31:37 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 15, 2020, 08:28:08 PM

LGW had a post claiming that Trump acted before any other politicians did.  Because it was so absurd, it was deleted.  He then complained (we left that), and sent me a PM that my bias was showing (OK, fine), and that he's done here forever (also fine).

He/She doesn’t know how to read either, or follow how quoting works on here. I purposely steer clear of trying to rankle any pure politics here.

I’m fine if my comments get ripped, but LGW certainly mis-read that entire conversation.

Now back to regularly scheduled fear talk...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 15, 2020, 08:34:51 PM

Good thing the citizens of Milwaukee County brought this man to prominence.

@SheriffClarke: It is now evident that this is an orchestrated attempt to destroy CAPITALISM. First sports, then schools and finally commercial businesses. Time to RISE UP and push back. Bars and restaurants should defy the order. Let people decide if they want to go out

@SheriffClarke: Not ONE media outlet has asked about George Soros’s involvement in this FLU panic. He is SOMEWHERE involved in this.

@SheriffClarke: Folks, the LEFT has collapsed our institutions that have served us in times of trouble. TAKE...TO ...THE...STREETS.  That is the battlefield the LEFT has defined. I will no longer sit back and watch the destruction of this great republic over the FLU.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 15, 2020, 08:36:06 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 15, 2020, 08:34:51 PM

Good thing the citizens of Milwaukee County brought this man to prominence.

@SheriffClarke: It is now evident that this is an orchestrated attempt to destroy CAPITALISM. First sports, then schools and finally commercial businesses. Time to RISE UP and push back. Bars and restaurants should defy the order. Let people decide if they want to go out

@SheriffClarke: Not ONE media outlet has asked about George Soros’s involvement in this FLU panic. He is SOMEWHERE involved in this.

@SheriffClarke: Folks, the LEFT has collapsed our institutions that have served us in times of trouble. TAKE...TO ...THE...STREETS.  That is the battlefield the LEFT has defined. I will no longer sit back and watch the destruction of this great republic over the FLU.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMR5zf1J1Hs

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on March 15, 2020, 08:40:48 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 15, 2020, 08:28:08 PM

LGW had a post claiming that Trump acted before any other politicians did.  Because it was so absurd, it was deleted.  He then complained (we left that), and sent me a PM that my bias was showing (OK, fine), and that he's done here forever (also fine).

Just here to say that the mods have done a great job during this situation. No young future moderator of a midwestern private unversity's basketball message board grows up intending to have to decide which posts live or die in the midst of a pandemic - but ya'll have been very present and done a great job and the board is better for it. 

Please make sure you're not modest and that you remind us knuckleheads that you do this for free and of your steady hand during this difficult time when it comes time to encourage us to donate to Al's Run 2020.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 15, 2020, 08:43:56 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 15, 2020, 08:34:51 PM

Good thing the citizens of Milwaukee County brought this man to prominence.

@SheriffClarke: It is now evident that this is an orchestrated attempt to destroy CAPITALISM. First sports, then schools and finally commercial businesses. Time to RISE UP and push back. Bars and restaurants should defy the order. Let people decide if they want to go out

@SheriffClarke: Not ONE media outlet has asked about George Soros’s involvement in this FLU panic. He is SOMEWHERE involved in this.

@SheriffClarke: Folks, the LEFT has collapsed our institutions that have served us in times of trouble. TAKE...TO ...THE...STREETS.  That is the battlefield the LEFT has defined. I will no longer sit back and watch the destruction of this great republic over the FLU.

He thought he would be relevant. He’s not.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 15, 2020, 08:47:48 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 15, 2020, 08:34:51 PM

Good thing the citizens of Milwaukee County brought this man to prominence.

@SheriffClarke: It is now evident that this is an orchestrated attempt to destroy CAPITALISM. First sports, then schools and finally commercial businesses. Time to RISE UP and push back. Bars and restaurants should defy the order. Let people decide if they want to go out

@SheriffClarke: Not ONE media outlet has asked about George Soros’s involvement in this FLU panic. He is SOMEWHERE involved in this.

@SheriffClarke: Folks, the LEFT has collapsed our institutions that have served us in times of trouble. TAKE...TO ...THE...STREETS.  That is the battlefield the LEFT has defined. I will no longer sit back and watch the destruction of this great republic over the FLU.

You can’t fake that kind of crazy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mr. Nielsen on March 15, 2020, 08:49:50 PM

 ::)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 15, 2020, 08:51:07 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 15, 2020, 08:34:51 PM

Good thing the citizens of Milwaukee County brought this man to prominence.

@SheriffClarke: It is now evident that this is an orchestrated attempt to destroy CAPITALISM. First sports, then schools and finally commercial businesses. Time to RISE UP and push back. Bars and restaurants should defy the order. Let people decide if they want to go out

@SheriffClarke: Not ONE media outlet has asked about George Soros’s involvement in this FLU panic. He is SOMEWHERE involved in this.

@SheriffClarke: Folks, the LEFT has collapsed our institutions that have served us in times of trouble. TAKE...TO ...THE...STREETS.  That is the battlefield the LEFT has defined. I will no longer sit back and watch the destruction of this great republic over the FLU.

I was a few rows behind him last year on a flight from LaGuardia to Milwaukee.  He was in first class of course.
Like 2 people asked for a selfie with him in the terminal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Eldon on March 15, 2020, 08:54:02 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 15, 2020, 08:34:51 PM

Good thing the citizens of Milwaukee County brought this man to prominence.

@SheriffClarke: It is now evident that this is an orchestrated attempt to destroy CAPITALISM. First sports, then schools and finally commercial businesses. Time to RISE UP and push back. Bars and restaurants should defy the order. Let people decide if they want to go out

@SheriffClarke: Not ONE media outlet has asked about George Soros’s involvement in this FLU panic. He is SOMEWHERE involved in this.

@SheriffClarke: Folks, the LEFT has collapsed our institutions that have served us in times of trouble. TAKE...TO ...THE...STREETS.  That is the battlefield the LEFT has defined. I will no longer sit back and watch the destruction of this great republic over the FLU.

Trenchant insight right here on the Coronavirus from the mighty sheriff.

What is the President waiting for?!?!?

Make this man Secretary of Agriculture ASAP!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on March 15, 2020, 08:57:42 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 15, 2020, 06:41:27 PM

My hospital - and most in state of Indiana - have suspended elective surgeries.

Unprecedented

OMG. Where are Canadians going to get their new hips?

(Sorry, just trying to insert a little humor into a difficult situation)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 15, 2020, 09:02:27 PM

If your interested in some additional sobering news. An infectious disease doc told me that they are being told that it has been confirmed that COVID-19 is airborne, and can be spread even after the infected person has left a room, or possibly through ventilation ducts.

That is different than it being spread through droplets in the air.

There was preliminary research before.

https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-can-spread-as-an-aerosol.html

They are now being told it has been confirmed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: buckchuckler on March 15, 2020, 09:07:23 PM

While Trump certainly deserves criticism for some of the things he has said, he has done things well too.  Shutting down travel from China was absolutely the right move, and he was called xenophobic and racist for it.  He was right in shutting down travel from Europe, and got criticized for leaving the UK and Ireland open, because they had far fewer cases.  That changed the next day, on both counts. 

Honestly, I can completely understand thinking this was a lot of hype before we saw what happened in Italy (I have to admit, I kind of did).  The reactions in Japan and South Korea weren't as devastating, and I don't know if you can ever believe anything one way or another that you hear from the Chinese government.  But the way that Italy descended into turmoil pretty quickly was frightening. 

As far as Western countries go, the US seems to be doing a better job than anyone in the EU (it seems like Germany is doing ok...).  It seems like we have reacted and put measures in place far earlier on in the outbreak than other nations, and yes, we have the advantage of being farther away and the advantage of seeing what happened in places like Italy.  But the UK had the same advantage, and their plan seems like a disaster waiting to happen, and a great way to make the outbreak last longer, I'm not a doctor, but it seems like most doctors think their strategy isn't so great.

South Korea seems to be containing the virus with mass testing and distancing, we are at least following part of that protocol.  I get that things that work in Eastern cultures may not work in the West, but it would be foolish not to pay attention to a system that is working pretty well to say the least.  According to the chart above, less than a 1% mortality rate so far.  But that data doesn't tell the whole story, as this virus clearly has demographics where it is not dangerous at all and others where it is terribly lethal, so maybe SK just isn't getting the elderly infected?  Maybe all their testing is giving a truer mortality rate where other countries are missing the milder cases.  I don't know, but you would hope the powers that be, not just here but everywhere, are really watching South Korea.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 15, 2020, 09:09:47 PM

never Mind. Found it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: buckchuckler on March 15, 2020, 09:10:30 PM

Quote from: MUDish on March 15, 2020, 04:21:40 PM

This isn’t intended to be political, but Illinois chugging forward with its primary on Tuesday seems foolish.

Downright insane.  Illinois will close schools and restaurants, but we'll be damned before we let something gunk up the political machine. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 15, 2020, 09:11:46 PM

Quote from: MUBurrow on March 15, 2020, 08:40:48 PM

Just here to say that the mods have done a great job during this situation. No young future moderator of a midwestern private unversity's basketball message board grows up intending to have to decide which posts live or die in the midst of a pandemic - but ya'll have been very present and done a great job and the board is better for it.  .

Appreciate the support.  But also because I think I'm fair, here's the PM response I received from LGW, as well as the article link that s/he apparently thinks is relevant. And totally proves that...trump would have completely been on top of this if not for the Dems impeachment  follies....???

Quote

Ur an idiot

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker-carlson-coronavirus-story-was-ignored-by-media-obsessed-with-impeachment.amp

That's an "opinion" piece from today.  FWIW - Benny started this thread on Jan 27.  We've had mostly reliable info since, and many firsthand accounts of China/Covid-19 stories. 

I appreciate all that have contributed.  It's been very informative.  I was initially supremely confident in the CDC.  Then the CDC admitted this was likely bigger than they could handle, then their message was neutered by Politicians.  We're all trying to take care of each other....I think....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 15, 2020, 09:16:44 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on March 15, 2020, 09:09:47 PM

Where did you see this? Can’t find it on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/SheriffClarke/status/1239336564334960642

https://twitter.com/SheriffClarke/status/1239348539362246656

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 15, 2020, 09:19:40 PM

I was thinking about this, today.
I have a friend who works in HHS in a "Disaster and Emergency Planning" department and he's been telling me forever that a viral outbreak will eventually happen.
I haven't heard from him in the last two weeks.

I heard from another friend on Friday that the Army took him back after the White House press conference.  He does the job like the Secret Service except protecting Secretaries.  Protected Secretary of Commerce for awhile and was most recently protecting Secretary of Health and Human Services (Azar).  Sent me a photo of the press conference.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 15, 2020, 09:19:57 PM

Quote from: Let's Go Warriors on March 15, 2020, 07:05:23 PM

This administration responded before the Dems
Before the media who was more concerned with impeachment in January.  This was a story on Tucker Carlsons show as early as January 15th...
The media the Dems were nowhere.
Trump shut down the borders and was highly criticized.

Get a clue.

This crap is allowed and my post calling out the Administration, the Dems and the Media was deleted.

crap...

Sorry this is for the post by MU dish ripping the administration
"If this virus happened under any other president in history, it would be a no-brainer. But these are dire times.

Still, I'll be shocked if it isn't postponed by midday tomorrow."

Should be removed if you are going to remove mine...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 15, 2020, 09:21:37 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 15, 2020, 09:02:27 PM

If your interested in some additional sobering news. An infectious disease doc told me that they are being told that it has been confirmed that COVID-19 is airborne, and can be spread even after the infected person has left a room, or possibly through ventilation ducts.

That is different than it being spread through droplets in the air.

There was preliminary research before.

https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-can-spread-as-an-aerosol.html

They are now being told it has been confirmed.

Wow - that is truly frightening.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 15, 2020, 09:27:03 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 15, 2020, 08:28:08 PM

LGW had a post claiming that Trump acted before any other politicians did.  Because it was so absurd, it was deleted.  He then complained (we left that), and sent me a PM that my bias was showing (OK, fine), and that he's done here forever (also fine).

To be fair, Trump did act 2 years ago--by firing the pandemic response team.  Thank god Fauci is still around.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 15, 2020, 09:28:22 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 15, 2020, 09:21:37 PM

Wow - that is truly frightening.

Agreed, but it makes some other things make sense.

Administration people today were emphasizing that one of the key things they learned from China and the WHO is the need for dedicated hospitals to treat patients to avoid spread amongst the patients. Apparently that was a big part of China's success.

I know in my area there is a dedicated hospital to treating all COVID-19 patients.

Now airborne aerosols still have a range of lifetimes where they are stable. Let's hope it is on the shorter end so that it isn't surviving through ducts. Its bad enough that a 6-foot social distancing may be inadequate. Let's also hope that the initial data suggesting this may only be relevant in healthcare settings is true.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Eldon on March 15, 2020, 10:31:05 PM

Some evidence of the value of closing the school system during a pandemic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_Massachusetts

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 15, 2020, 11:01:23 PM

If the Johns Hopkins chart above is correct - Italy has identified about 10K new cases this weekend? 

That's a question, but I see media reports about 15k from Friday, and 24k on the chart above right now.  Holy....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 15, 2020, 11:16:57 PM

Quote from: buckchuckler on March 15, 2020, 09:07:23 PM

While Trump certainly deserves criticism for some of the things he has said, he has done things well too.  Shutting down travel from China was absolutely the right move, and he was called xenophobic and racist for it.  He was right in shutting down travel from Europe, and got criticized for leaving the UK and Ireland open, because they had far fewer cases.  That changed the next day, on both counts. 

Honestly, I can completely understand thinking this was a lot of hype before we saw what happened in Italy (I have to admit, I kind of did).  The reactions in Japan and South Korea weren't as devastating, and I don't know if you can ever believe anything one way or another that you hear from the Chinese government.  But the way that Italy descended into turmoil pretty quickly was frightening. 

As far as Western countries go, the US seems to be doing a better job than anyone in the EU (it seems like Germany is doing ok...).  It seems like we have reacted and put measures in place far earlier on in the outbreak than other nations, and yes, we have the advantage of being farther away and the advantage of seeing what happened in places like Italy.  But the UK had the same advantage, and their plan seems like a disaster waiting to happen, and a great way to make the outbreak last longer, I'm not a doctor, but it seems like most doctors think their strategy isn't so great.

South Korea seems to be containing the virus with mass testing and distancing, we are at least following part of that protocol.  I get that things that work in Eastern cultures may not work in the West, but it would be foolish not to pay attention to a system that is working pretty well to say the least.  According to the chart above, less than a 1% mortality rate so far.  But that data doesn't tell the whole story, as this virus clearly has demographics where it is not dangerous at all and others where it is terribly lethal, so maybe SK just isn't getting the elderly infected?  Maybe all their testing is giving a truer mortality rate where other countries are missing the milder cases.  I don't know, but you would hope the powers that be, not just here but everywhere, are really watching South Korea.

I'm going to be incredibly nice and call you willfully ignorant.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 15, 2020, 11:21:24 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 15, 2020, 09:27:03 PM

To be fair, Trump did act 2 years ago--by firing the pandemic response team.  Thank god Fauci is still around.

Fauci will have saved us thousands of lives without anyone noticing.  He is a good man.  Not a BSer

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Eldon on March 16, 2020, 06:12:37 AM

Asymptomatic people are spreading it:

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/03/14/health/coronavirus-asymptomatic-spread/index.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUDPT on March 16, 2020, 07:59:44 AM

I work in the ED at a local hospital and will answer questions if anyone has them.  One thing that isn’t talked about is if you have relatives above 80, ASK THEM NOW, about advanced directives. Some may not want to go on a ventilator or extreme measures to save their life. Those things will be in short supply and the more we have, the better.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 16, 2020, 08:04:24 AM

I hope the steps we are taking help push the line towards SC/Japan.  The China numbers are likely understated -- the Italy/Spain line is frightening.

(https://media-exp1.licdn.com/dms/image/sync/C5627AQEbng1DUO2Ppw/articleshare-shrink_800/0?e=1584450000&v=beta&t=ppRo2kf2xDNnmgEMJQd-FN5xKEfF28VHBaEfTj-6lNs)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 16, 2020, 08:12:34 AM

Quote from: buckchuckler on March 15, 2020, 09:07:23 PM

While Trump certainly deserves criticism for some of the things he has said, he has done things well too.  Shutting down travel from China was absolutely the right move, and he was called xenophobic and racist for it.

I agree with you.

Quote from: buckchuckler on March 15, 2020, 09:07:23 PM

He was right in shutting down travel from Europe, and got criticized for leaving the UK and Ireland open, because they had far fewer cases.  That changed the next day, on both counts. 

I completely disagree with this.  It should have been done much earlier and much more coordinated.  Some of the reports of long waits in customs lines, no immediate quarantining of sick passengers, and basically releasing everyone out the door like business as usual is making the disease spread faster and to more people.

This should have been a more coordinated effort with the airports and the airlines, with provisions for sick passengers and a way to quarantine them.  Announcing it as part of an address, and being wrong about the policy itself, and giving people just a day or two has actually made us less safe.

It was bluster for the sake of doing something bold and basically backfired.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jsglow on March 16, 2020, 08:16:41 AM

So, I see that this thread has gone completely political in the last 2 pages with each side going to their respective corner, including you rocky.  Color me disappointed.

Out.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on March 16, 2020, 08:34:52 AM

Trying to re-focus here, do not assume youth = survivablity. The odds are certainly in your favor if you're under 70ish, but there are dire cases cropping up of 30-40 year olds in critical condition.

The virus appears to be attacking a particular cell receptor that is most prevalent in the lungs but also exists in heart tissue. My wife is a PA and belongs to a group where providers are sharing experiences with the hope of somehow developing some kind of hive mind best practices to attack this thing. It's every bit as dire as it sounds, and it's hitting younger people by attacking heart tissue.

Also, another resource I've found that seems good, or at least informative.

Podcast: https://peterattiamd.com/covid-19-update-03152020/ and https://peterattiamd.com/peterhotez/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 16, 2020, 08:37:56 AM

Quote from: jsglow on March 16, 2020, 08:16:41 AM

So, I see that this thread has gone completely political in the last 2 pages with each side going to their respective corner, including you rocky.  Color me disappointed.

Out.

LOL.  Debating whether or not the administration is taking the right steps is part of the issue.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on March 16, 2020, 08:39:46 AM

Also, this is another disconcerting line of analysis/thought: Apparently first responders and providers in China were disproportionately affected. Dr. Sidhartha Mukherjee (an oncologist and the guy who write "The Emperor of All Maladies," which, admittedly doesn't exactly make him a subspecialist in this) suggests that viral load may have something to do with it.

"1/2 And one thing MISSING from the conversation (I used to be a virologist by training) is VIRAL LOAD. Large volume exposure (huge viral load) may be different from low viral load. That MAY be why ER docs, and young nurses in China may be severely affected 2/2 So among the variables is total viral exposure.. and I have not seen a model of that. It's not just black and white (exposed/unexposed) but the total load that is exposed..."

More analysis here: https://www.reddit.com/r/medicine/comments/f8lrkj/why_are_so_many_young_doctors_dying_of_covid19_in/ citing a study of the SARS1 outbreak which correlated initial viral load with disease course.

"Hospital workers are likely to be exposed to especially high viral loads of covid19. People who are hospitalized with covid19 infections are likely to cough more and require close contact for procedures such as IV placement and intubation. It is hard to know for sure, but healthcare transmission risk may have been especially high in the early stages of the epidemic in Wuhan, when people were not as aware of the high mortality rates of this disease.

If viral load upon initial infection correlates with disease severity, this may also help to explain why some local clusters seem to have more severe disease, such as the family who all died of the disease. For some reason, people in these clusters may have been exposed to an especially high viral load. Ideally, we could measure the viral load of infected people with RT-PCR to test this, although it's hard enough to get basic yes/no tests for covid19 at this point.

The viral load theory is not rock solid. It may not explain a large percentage of the variance in disease severity - certainly age seems to be a larger factor. But to me, it is clearly the leading theory why a disproportionate number of young doctors without apparent pre-existing health problems have died of covid19 in Wuhan.

Healthcare workers putting themselves at risk to care for the sick during this pandemic are heroes. It is an urgent priority to have sufficient PPE available to our healthcare staff. We also need to have adequate space available to allow for the adequate distancing of staff and possibly infected patients. The viral load theory suggests that PPE and distancing are not only important for preventing healthcare workers from getting the illness but also decreasing the likelihood that they will die of the illness if they are infected."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 16, 2020, 08:51:54 AM

Quote from: jficke13 on March 16, 2020, 08:34:52 AM

Trying to re-focus here, do not assume youth = survivablity. The odds are certainly in your favor if you're under 70ish, but there are dire cases cropping up of 30-40 year olds in critical condition.

The virus appears to be attacking a particular cell receptor that is most prevalent in the lungs but also exists in heart tissue. My wife is a PA and belongs to a group where providers are sharing experiences with the hope of somehow developing some kind of hive mind best practices to attack this thing. It's every bit as dire as it sounds, and it's hitting younger people by attacking heart tissue.

Also, another resource I've found that seems good, or at least informative.

Podcast: https://peterattiamd.com/covid-19-update-03152020/ and https://peterattiamd.com/peterhotez/

To expand on that, I've read that the damage done by the disease leaves permanent damage in some cases to lung and heart tissue.  So, really, everyone should try to not get it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 16, 2020, 09:16:15 AM

Quote from: jsglow on March 16, 2020, 08:16:41 AM

So, I see that this thread has gone completely political in the last 2 pages with each side going to their respective corner, including you rocky.  Color me disappointed.

Out.

One thing is not like the other.  At least everyone know nows for sure what politics are allowed and which are not.  And why some always get to stay while others get banned.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 16, 2020, 09:24:15 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 16, 2020, 09:16:15 AM

One thing is not like the other.  At least everyone know nows for sure what politics are allowed and which are not.  And why some always get to stay while others get banned.

Nah, not really.  If you actually read there is a pretty political post that got this latest storm started.  And its from right of center. 

It would be REALLY nice if we could just drop the politics, period, but some people can't help themselves.  And some people can't help but rush to the defense of politicians that haven't done a good job by any measurement.  That's when it becomes political.

It's as if calling the sky blue when its blue is political.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 16, 2020, 09:46:06 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 16, 2020, 09:24:15 AM

Nah, not really.  If you actually read there is a pretty political post that got this latest storm started.  And its from right of center. 

It would be REALLY nice if we could just drop the politics, period, but some people can't help themselves.  And some people can't help but rush to the defense of politicians that haven't done a good job by any measurement.  That's when it becomes political.

It's as if calling the sky blue when its blue is political.

And then the usual suspects started throwing monkey poo around (82, tsmith, da pontiff, pakuni) and rocky encourages it. 

Trump hasnt helped.  The media hasnt helped.  Pelosi hasnt helped.  Biden and bernie havent helped.  The CDC has, Fauci has. 

We should be able to discuss this without political finger pointing and pot shots.

But when the moderator says, go for it, but only from one side, that opens the deep tunnel into Lake Michigan.

And you Hards have done a commendable job keeping politics out of your posts.  Not so much the hysteria  ;) but the political.   :D

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 16, 2020, 09:48:09 AM

"but some people can't help themselves.  And some people can't help but rush to the defense of politicians that haven't done a good job by any measurement"


   this is the red meat-how does one not respond to this.  everyone, especially "the other side" is going to be critiquing this to the max looking for an edge.  problem is that we are in uncharted territory so people need to be a little more tolerant if that's at all possible

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 16, 2020, 09:52:43 AM

Interesting that the Governor's of Connecticut, New York & New Jersey had a joint press teleconference.  They are all trying to coordinate their responses in the tri-state area.  Indicated they were all speaking with Governors or Pennsylvania, Rhode Island and Massachusetts also and felt there probably would be additional coordination going forward with those states included.
* They are all talking with telecom companies about digital capacity to handle more people working at home.
* Federal government has a stockpile of medical supplies that only they can release.  States are limited on what they can attain as everyone is inquiring about the same pool of current available supplies.
* Will adjust public transportation based on demand.
* Additional sanitation and cleaning on public transportation.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 16, 2020, 09:57:14 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 16, 2020, 09:46:06 AM

The CDC has, Fauci has. 

Jerome Adams, Deborah Birx....

Now that these people are out in front/empowered we should feel better.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on March 16, 2020, 10:00:22 AM

Eye cee, so Inn a knutshell, Trump's ta blame four da entire covid-19 outbrake, aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 16, 2020, 10:02:06 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 16, 2020, 08:04:24 AM

I hope the steps we are taking help push the line towards SC/Japan.  The China numbers are likely understated -- the Italy/Spain line is frightening.

(https://media-exp1.licdn.com/dms/image/sync/C5627AQEbng1DUO2Ppw/articleshare-shrink_800/0?e=1584450000&v=beta&t=ppRo2kf2xDNnmgEMJQd-FN5xKEfF28VHBaEfTj-6lNs)

Maybe the curves look different when it comes to pandemic situations, but wouldn't we typically assume that a curve will plateau after a quick rise? China's experience looks like that, and it makes some sense to me given the way it hits a smaller portion of the population so disproportionately hard.

I read an article about a week ago that referenced Farr's Law, which more or less assumes that rapid increases in new cases tend to be followed by rapid declines in new cases, creating a bell curve type shape. If that's the case, I would expect a similar pattern for mortality. Maybe someone more familiar can clarify or build on whether this is assumed to be relevant or not.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on March 16, 2020, 10:03:37 AM

I'm not sure how you can completely cut out any discussion of the messaging and actions of centralized government when discussing pandemic response.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 16, 2020, 10:06:08 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 16, 2020, 09:46:06 AM

And then the usual suspects started throwing monkey poo around (82, tsmith, da pontiff, pakuni) and rocky encourages it. 

What have I said that is political?  I said that his travel ban to China was in retrospect was a good thing, but his European ban was not.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 16, 2020, 10:19:07 AM

Some positive news on the testing front. Jack Ma is sending half a million tests to the US, and the FDA just approved a new test from Roche that can be produced in quantities of up to 1.5 million per month. There are also existing machines in hospitals that can process the test.

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/13/815522836/u-s-coronavirus-testing-gets-a-breakthrough (https://www.npr.org/2020/03/13/815522836/u-s-coronavirus-testing-gets-a-breakthrough)

https://time.com/5803791/jack-ma-alibaba-coronavirus/ (https://time.com/5803791/jack-ma-alibaba-coronavirus/)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 16, 2020, 10:24:32 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 16, 2020, 10:00:22 AM

Eye cee, so Inn a knutshell, Trump's ta blame four da entire covid-19 outbrake, aina?

No. But the government is responsible for the response to it, and discussing what we should or shouldn't be doing seems on point for the topic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 16, 2020, 10:31:00 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 15, 2020, 11:21:24 PM

Fauci will have saved us thousands of lives without anyone noticing.  He is a good man.  Not a BSer

Agreed. This is going to be ugly. But I have a feeling it will not be as bad as it could have been, thanks to Fauci.

Give the dude every award in the book when the dust settles.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 16, 2020, 10:45:41 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 16, 2020, 09:48:09 AM

"but some people can't help themselves.  And some people can't help but rush to the defense of politicians that haven't done a good job by any measurement"


   this is the red meat-how does one not respond to this.  everyone, especially "the other side" is going to be critiquing this to the max looking for an edge.  problem is that we are in uncharted territory so people need to be a little more tolerant if that's at all possible

I'm absolutely criticizing both sides.  They've done an awful job of this.  But our leader has bungled this, and the buck stops with him.  So criticism is absolutely fair.  I know its red meat, but MAYBE be objective and agree that it has been mishandled.

On another note, I was just at the dentist, and every precaution was being taken... including not polishing to prevent aerosolization. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 16, 2020, 10:50:04 AM

Quote from: Coleman on March 16, 2020, 10:31:00 AM

Agreed. This is going to be ugly. But I have a feeling it will not be as bad as it could have been, thanks to Fauci.

Give the dude every award in the book when the dust settles.

Time Person of the Year 2020

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 16, 2020, 11:03:02 AM

I always thought it was about time Billy did a sequel.  Both my kids used the song as reference in APUSH class and played frequently.

---

Twitter Gives ‘We Didn’t Start the Fire’ Revamp in Wake of COVID-19
Social media users adding verses to Billy Joel classic as coronavirus concerns mount

By DAVID BROWNE

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/we-didnt-start-the-first-covid-19-967692/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on March 16, 2020, 11:11:04 AM

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/16/remdesivir-surges-ahead-against-coronavirus/

Not a lot of new ground here but a bit of interesting background and context to Remdesivir as a potential therapy. I saw somewhere (having trouble finding the link right now, sorry) that data on its efficacy is due April 4.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 16, 2020, 11:40:05 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 16, 2020, 10:00:22 AM

Eye cee, so Inn a knutshell, Trump's ta blame four da entire covid-19 outbrake, aina?

Exactly zero people said that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 16, 2020, 11:57:37 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 16, 2020, 09:46:06 AM

And then the usual suspects started throwing monkey poo around (82, tsmith, da pontiff, pakuni) and rocky encourages it. 

Trump hasnt helped.  The media hasnt helped.  Pelosi hasnt helped.  Biden and bernie havent helped.  The CDC has, Fauci has. 

We should be able to discuss this without political finger pointing and pot shots.

But when the moderator says, go for it, but only from one side, that opens the deep tunnel into Lake Michigan.

And you Hards have done a commendable job keeping politics out of your posts.  Not so much the hysteria  ;) but the political.   :D

I've said nothing about Trump or his response to this, but thanks for including me.
That said, labeling criticism of the federal government's response to a pandemic as "political" seems like little more than a lame attempt to suppress anything that may reflect poorly upon a particular commander in chief.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 16, 2020, 12:07:52 PM

Quote from: jficke13 on March 16, 2020, 11:11:04 AM

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/16/remdesivir-surges-ahead-against-coronavirus/

Not a lot of new ground here but a bit of interesting background and context to Remdesivir as a potential therapy. I saw somewhere (having trouble finding the link right now, sorry) that data on its efficacy is due April 4.

Nm hoping for good news. Also saw another company started human testing today

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 16, 2020, 12:09:46 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 16, 2020, 11:57:37 AM

I've said nothing about Trump or his response to this, but thanks for including me.
That said, labeling criticism of the federal government's response to a pandemic as "political" seems like little more than a lame attempt to suppress anything that may reflect poorly upon a particular commander in chief.

Troublemaker!   ;)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on March 16, 2020, 12:12:18 PM

Im currently in NYC with my GF and have been since mid last week.  Obviously paying close attention to everything as I'm supposed to head back to the Midwest on Wed.  The messaging and responses and leadership, IMO, could not be more different at the city and state level.  Love or hate his politics, Cuomo has been FANTASTIC.  He's been calm, measured, communicating warmly and reassuringly, and very transparent to his thought process and reasoning behind actions.  True leadership.  DiBlasio has been all over, spent most of his words (up until yesterday's school closing announcements) taking shots at Trump and the WH (and not in a productive way) and using $20 words to emphasize how serious he is taking things.  He also dropped about 5 diff variations of "kids will be kids" and said he knows cause he is a parent when addressing concerns about kids being home for weeks potentially.

Just thought it was interesting the contrast in response to a large scale crisis in the most major of cities.  NY has been the hardest hit overall and they've had to make moves where necessary, but I respect that lack of snap judgement and lack of panic appearing moves.  The coalition with CT and NJ to all be uniform in their directives and policies today was another excellent move.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 16, 2020, 12:14:21 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on March 16, 2020, 12:12:18 PM

Im currently in NYC with my GF and have been since mid last week.  Obviously paying close attention to everything as I'm supposed to head back to the Midwest on Wed.  The messaging and responses and leadership, IMO, could not be more different at the city and state level.  Love or hate his politics, Cuomo has been FANTASTIC.  He's been calm, measured, communicating warmly and reassuringly, and very transparent to his thought process and reasoning behind actions.  True leadership.  DiBlasio has been all over, spent most of his words (up until yesterday's school closing announcements) taking shots at Trump and the WH (and not in a productive way) and using $20 words to emphasize how serious he is taking things.  He also dropped about 5 diff variations of "kids will be kids" and said he knows cause he is a parent when addressing concerns about kids being home for weeks potentially.

Just thought it was interesting the contrast in response to a large scale crisis in the most major of cities.  NY has been the hardest hit overall and they've had to make moves where necessary, but I respect that lack of snap judgement and lack of panic appearing moves.  The coalition with CT and NJ to all be uniform in their directives and policies today was another excellent move.

Get back safely. In Chicago, I think Lightfoot and Pritzker have also done a pretty commendable job thus far. Calm, measured, taking appropriate action.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 16, 2020, 12:19:08 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on March 16, 2020, 12:12:18 PM

Im currently in NYC with my GF and have been since mid last week.  Obviously paying close attention to everything as I'm supposed to head back to the Midwest on Wed.  The messaging and responses and leadership, IMO, could not be more different at the city and state level.  Love or hate his politics, Cuomo has been FANTASTIC.  He's been calm, measured, communicating warmly and reassuringly, and very transparent to his thought process and reasoning behind actions.  True leadership.  DiBlasio has been all over, spent most of his words (up until yesterday's school closing announcements) taking shots at Trump and the WH (and not in a productive way) and using $20 words to emphasize how serious he is taking things.  He also dropped about 5 diff variations of "kids will be kids" and said he knows cause he is a parent when addressing concerns about kids being home for weeks potentially.

Just thought it was interesting the contrast in response to a large scale crisis in the most major of cities.  NY has been the hardest hit overall and they've had to make moves where necessary, but I respect that lack of snap judgement and lack of panic appearing moves.  The coalition with CT and NJ to all be uniform in their directives and policies today was another excellent move.

Governors and mayors have stepped up big-time. Inslee and Newsom have been outstanding as well.

Those are the types that we need on a national stage when a crisis arises and leadership is required. Calm, rational, and able to run off a list of the things they are doing to fight this. Dealing with the crisis is Job one for them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 16, 2020, 12:25:17 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on March 16, 2020, 12:12:18 PM

Im currently in NYC with my GF and have been since mid last week.  Obviously paying close attention to everything as I'm supposed to head back to the Midwest on Wed.  The messaging and responses and leadership, IMO, could not be more different at the city and state level.  Love or hate his politics, Cuomo has been FANTASTIC.  He's been calm, measured, communicating warmly and reassuringly, and very transparent to his thought process and reasoning behind actions.  True leadership.  DiBlasio has been all over, spent most of his words (up until yesterday's school closing announcements) taking shots at Trump and the WH (and not in a productive way) and using $20 words to emphasize how serious he is taking things.  He also dropped about 5 diff variations of "kids will be kids" and said he knows cause he is a parent when addressing concerns about kids being home for weeks potentially.

Just thought it was interesting the contrast in response to a large scale crisis in the most major of cities.  NY has been the hardest hit overall and they've had to make moves where necessary, but I respect that lack of snap judgement and lack of panic appearing moves.  The coalition with CT and NJ to all be uniform in their directives and policies today was another excellent move.

DiBlasio also got heckled going to a YMCA, which propted Cuomo to close all gyms by 8:00 PM tonight.  Which is humorous.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on March 16, 2020, 12:28:03 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 16, 2020, 12:19:08 PM

Governors and mayors have stepped up big-time. Inslee and Newsom have been outstanding as well.

Those are the types that we need on a national stage when a crisis arises and leadership is required. Calm, rational, and able to run off a list of the things they are doing to fight this. Dealing with the crisis is Job one for them.

Dewine in Ohio too (just to make sure we are naming some folks on both sides of the aisle)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on March 16, 2020, 12:37:38 PM

Quote from: reinko on March 16, 2020, 12:28:03 PM

Dewine in Ohio too (just to make sure we are naming some folks on both sides of the aisle)

Dewine has been an allstar in all this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 16, 2020, 01:34:24 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 16, 2020, 10:00:22 AM

Eye cee, so Inn a knutshell, Trump's ta blame four da entire covid-19 outbrake, aina?

The whole thing? No - I doubt he caused the virus to mutate and all, and I don't think anyone claimed that.

Still, his disbanding of the pandemic response office greatly delayed our ability to be prepared for it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 16, 2020, 01:47:30 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 16, 2020, 01:34:24 PM

The whole thing? No - I doubt he caused the virus to mutate and all, and I don't think anyone claimed that.

Still, his disbanding of the pandemic response office greatly delayed our ability to be prepared for it.

Certainly don't think it helped, but I struggle to understand in the heat of the moment how it would have been handled differently

I don't me how it should have been handled, we will definitely need to figure that out for "future proofing" but given the personalities and culture involved I'm not sure how much differently we would have responded

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 16, 2020, 01:47:41 PM

I hope our man vogue stays healthy.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/coronavirus-obituaries-bergamo-italy/2020/03/16/6c342f02-66c7-11ea-b199-3a9799c54512_story.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Chili on March 16, 2020, 01:56:21 PM

Craig Calcaterra  @craigcalcaterra
1m
Ohio governor closing: fitness centers, gyms, bowling alleys, public rec centers, movie theaters, indoor recreation all to close by end of business today.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 16, 2020, 01:59:25 PM

Stringer Bell has coronavirus.
Sh@t just got real.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 16, 2020, 02:02:52 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 16, 2020, 01:59:25 PM

Stringer Bell has coronavirus.
Sh@t just got real.

What about Omar?

Quote from: mu03eng on March 16, 2020, 01:47:30 PM

I don't me how it should have been handled, we will definitely need to figure that out for "future proofing" but given the personalities and culture involved I'm not sure how much differently we would have responded

I just want a leader who won't lie to us day after day after day after day about something that might kill us. Doesn't seem too much to ask.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 16, 2020, 02:05:41 PM

Quote from: MU82 on March 16, 2020, 02:02:52 PM

I just want a leader who won't lie to us day after day after day after day about something that might kill us. Doesn't seem too much to ask.

Don't disagree, just nothing I can do about it right now.....I'll save that for November.

Really trying to focus on the controllable as opposed to the uncontrollable.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 16, 2020, 02:06:01 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 16, 2020, 01:47:30 PM

Certainly don't think it helped, but I struggle to understand in the heat of the moment how it would have been handled differently

I don't me how it should have been handled, we will definitely need to figure that out for "future proofing" but given the personalities and culture involved I'm not sure how much differently we would have responded

eng,
I suspect back earlier this year when the situation was developing fast in China a complete roll-out would plan would have been developed with medical supplies ordered and in place including significant quantities of test kits.
Now, whether the narcissist-in-chief would have listened or over-ruled them is whole separate and different discussion.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: DegenerateDish on March 16, 2020, 02:07:49 PM

I know this isn't surprising or crazy to post, my sister works for the State of Arizona, and has heard that tomorrow the Fed's are going to shut the country down.

I have no context around it, she's not the type of person to share stuff (she's very guarded).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 16, 2020, 02:07:55 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 16, 2020, 01:59:25 PM

Stringer Bell has coronavirus.
Sh@t just got real.

Heimdall.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 16, 2020, 02:11:37 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 16, 2020, 02:06:01 PM

eng,
I suspect back earlier this year when the situation was developing fast in China a complete roll-out would plan would have been developed with medical supplies ordered and in place including significant quantities of test kits.
Now, whether the narcissist-in-chief would have listened or over-ruled them is whole separate and different discussion.

Yep. And actually, the roll-out plan would have been mostly developed ahead of time, in anticipation of a pandemic. It would have needed tweaks based on the origin and nature of the pathogen, but one of the main functions of the office was disaster (specifically, pandemic) planning.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on March 16, 2020, 02:16:32 PM

Quote from: MUDish on March 16, 2020, 02:07:49 PM

I know this isn't surprising or crazy to post, my sister works for the State of Arizona, and has heard that tomorrow the Fed's are going to shut the country down.

I have no context around it, she's not the type of person to share stuff (she's very guarded).

They have to give people notice though, no?  Less than 24 hours is going to create a disaster

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: DegenerateDish on March 16, 2020, 02:19:47 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on March 16, 2020, 02:16:32 PM

They have to give people notice though, no?  Less than 24 hours is going to create a disaster

Yes, I agree with you. I have no context around it, if you were to know my sister, she's not the kind of person who is a rumor person, she's very textbook and guarded about everything.

I have no idea what that shutdown would entail, but wanted to provide what I heard.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 16, 2020, 02:24:46 PM

Quote from: reinko on March 16, 2020, 12:28:03 PM

Dewine in Ohio too (just to make sure we are naming some folks on both sides of the aisle)

Absolutely. I mentioned the other two because their states were the first to be affected and they took quick action.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Chili on March 16, 2020, 02:25:17 PM

Quote from: MUDish on March 16, 2020, 02:19:47 PM

Yes, I agree with you. I have no context around it, if you were to know my sister, she's not the kind of person who is a rumor person, she's very textbook and guarded about everything.

I have no idea what that shutdown would entail, but wanted to provide what I heard.

I would think this would start with completely locking the US borders down similar to what Canada just did. Allow the only movement of US Citizens, Residents & Canadians. Then eventually lock the US & Canadian border. Then lock states / cities if need be.

Edit: now this too:

Jackson Proskow  @JProskowGlobal
2m
NEW: Trump asks Americans not to gather in groups of more than 10, to avoid discretionary travel, and not to eat in restaurants or go to bars.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 16, 2020, 02:28:55 PM

Quote from: Chili on March 16, 2020, 02:25:17 PM

I would think this would start with completely locking the US borders down similar to what Canada just did. Allow the only movement of US Citizens, Residents & Canadians. Then eventually lock the US & Canadian border. Then lock states / cities if need be.

Cease domestic air travel and other means of mass transportation.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 16, 2020, 02:31:03 PM

One ray of hope I have in all of this is that there seems to be a "concentration" factor to the virus. Whether you call it viral load or time of exposure or what, the more concentrated the exposure the more impactful the virus is and with the at-risk population their concentration level is lower so it doesn't take as much to impact them.

So even if we limit the amount of exposure that will hopefully reduce the amount of critical cases which will make the flattened curve possible.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 16, 2020, 02:31:24 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on March 16, 2020, 02:16:32 PM

They have to give people notice though, no?  Less than 24 hours is going to create a disaster

Lockdown isn't EVERYTHING... but its most things, just check out what other countries are doing, and do what works.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 16, 2020, 02:32:24 PM

Rumor out of Italy, and France is that Anti Inflammatory drugs make this worse.  Consider not taking them if you or someone you know has symptoms.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 16, 2020, 02:35:43 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 16, 2020, 02:06:01 PM

eng,
I suspect back earlier this year when the situation was developing fast in China a complete roll-out would plan would have been developed with medical supplies ordered and in place including significant quantities of test kits.
Now, whether the narcissist-in-chief would have listened or over-ruled them is whole separate and different discussion.

That's very optimistic thinking. That hasn't exactly been the standard response around the world. The only place we've seen such a response is South Korea, who had fortunately just gone through a simulation to prepare for this kind of scenario. If you're assuming Trump's inadequate leadership in the US is the only reason we don't have widespread testing and improved healthcare capacity, then you'd have to lump most other global leaders into the same group.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 16, 2020, 02:37:20 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 16, 2020, 02:35:43 PM

That's very optimistic thinking. That hasn't exactly been the standard response around the world. The only place we've seen such a response is South Korea, who had fortunately just gone through a simulation to prepare for this kind of scenario. If you're assuming Trump's inadequate leadership in the US is the only reason we don't have widespread testing and improved healthcare capacity, then you'd have to lump most other global leaders into the same group.

Never thought I'd see the day the US lost it status as a world leader/power.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 16, 2020, 02:39:18 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 16, 2020, 02:37:20 PM

Never thought I'd see the day the US lost it status as a world leader/power.

You haven't yet. And you probably won't.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 16, 2020, 02:40:12 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 16, 2020, 02:39:18 PM

You haven't.

But you see my point, I hope.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 16, 2020, 02:41:08 PM

Quote from: MUDish on March 16, 2020, 02:07:49 PM

I know this isn't surprising or crazy to post, my sister works for the State of Arizona, and has heard that tomorrow the Fed's are going to shut the country down.

I have no context around it, she's not the type of person to share stuff (she's very guarded).

Trump just said they were not considering nationwide quarantine... so... feel free to make your jokes.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 16, 2020, 02:51:48 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 16, 2020, 02:40:12 PM

But you see my point, I hope.

I do, but I think it's a stretch. Our response has obviously not been as good as Korea. But if you look around the world, I don't think anyone has really had a great response from the start outside of Korea. Italy is in really bad shape, the UK is rolling the dice, France is seeing a surge in cases, etc.

The US having an average or even sub-par response to this crisis won't change our leadership role globally. Hopefully it does remind our leaders of our global role, though. And hopefully that can help change some of our practices/policies that might have impacts in areas beyond just budgets.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 16, 2020, 03:04:01 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 16, 2020, 02:41:08 PM

Trump just said they were not considering nationwide quarantine... so... feel free to make your jokes.

Maybe they'll only consider it after the "miracle" he promised on Feb. 27 doesn't happen.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 16, 2020, 03:04:09 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 16, 2020, 02:41:08 PM

Trump just said they were not considering nationwide quarantine... so... feel free to make your jokes.

Maybe he isn't, but there is a plan in place.....so it goes back to what considering means

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 16, 2020, 03:24:53 PM

I looked into the pandemic response closure a little bit since I hadn't actually read any articles on that yet. So far, I've just seen the statement and took it as fact. What I found was.... no surprise, very conflicting accounts.

Beth Cameron , the former Senior Director at the NSC, says the team was dissolved and not replaced. But Tim Morrison, another former senior director at the NSC, says the NSC was reorganized, and the counterproliferation and biodefense office now has pandemic preparedness within its scope.

What's the average joe to believe?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/nsc-pandemic-office-trump-closed/2020/03/13/a70de09c-6491-11ea-acca-80c22bbee96f_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/nsc-pandemic-office-trump-closed/2020/03/13/a70de09c-6491-11ea-acca-80c22bbee96f_story.html)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/16/no-white-house-didnt-dissolve-its-pandemic-response-office/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/16/no-white-house-didnt-dissolve-its-pandemic-response-office/)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 16, 2020, 03:29:41 PM

Quote from: MUDish on March 16, 2020, 02:07:49 PM

I know this isn't surprising or crazy to post, my sister works for the State of Arizona, and has heard that tomorrow the Fed's are going to shut the country down.

I have no context around it, she's not the type of person to share stuff (she's very guarded).

  holy crap!!  i have a 6:55 pm flight down to phoenix tomorrow-do you know if they are going to give us the 24 hour notice? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on March 16, 2020, 03:30:54 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 16, 2020, 02:32:24 PM

Rumor out of Italy, and France is that Anti Inflammatory drugs make this worse.  Consider not taking them if you or someone you know has symptoms.

Have seen this as anecdotal evidence from several sources as well. Control fever with acetaminophen. Try not to sprain an ankle. Live the ibuprofen on the shelf for a few weeks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 16, 2020, 03:43:33 PM

Quote from: jficke13 on March 16, 2020, 03:30:54 PM

Have seen this as anecdotal evidence from several sources as well. Control fever with acetaminophen. Try not to sprain an ankle. Live the ibuprofen on the shelf for a few weeks.

NSAIDS aren't generally recommended for medium/long term use anyway. Unless you have inflammation you should avoid NSAIDs as anything other than spot treatments.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 16, 2020, 03:44:03 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 16, 2020, 02:32:24 PM

Rumor out of Italy, and France is that Anti Inflammatory drugs make this worse.  Consider not taking them if you or someone you know has symptoms.

https://twitter.com/DavidJuurlink/status/1239552349804339202?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 16, 2020, 03:47:28 PM

Quote from: jficke13 on March 16, 2020, 03:30:54 PM

Have seen this as anecdotal evidence from several sources as well. Control fever with acetaminophen. Try not to sprain an ankle. Live the ibuprofen on the shelf for a few weeks.

Head of Pharma at Toulouse Hospital.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 16, 2020, 03:51:49 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 16, 2020, 03:44:03 PM

https://twitter.com/DavidJuurlink/status/1239552349804339202?s=19

Safe to say that there hasn't been any research done to say yes or no.  But, personally, I will avoid them if I become infected.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on March 16, 2020, 04:12:56 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 16, 2020, 03:44:03 PM

https://twitter.com/DavidJuurlink/status/1239552349804339202?s=19

Good thread. Thanks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 16, 2020, 04:14:22 PM

so acetometophin is ok? Isn't that an NSAID?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Sir Lawrence on March 16, 2020, 04:22:29 PM

Quote from: Coleman on March 16, 2020, 04:14:22 PM

so acetometophin is ok? Isn't that an NSAID?

From the Cleveland Clinic website:

Acetaminophen (Tylenol®) is not an NSAID. It’s a pain reliever and fever reducer but doesn’t have anti-inflammatory properties of NSAIDs. However, acetaminophen is sometimes combined with aspirin in over-the-counter products, such as some varieties of Excedrin®.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on March 16, 2020, 04:26:50 PM

For those who are in an office setting... what have the policies/communication looked like from your company?

The company I work for has basically taken the stance that unless the authorities order offices to close, people are expected to come in. So far they are only allowing people to work from home 2 days/week if their job allows for it. I'm furious with our leadership on this. It's irresponsible and borderline dangerous.

Before I completely die on this hill at work, I'm just curious how common this is for companies (especially in MKE) to continue to expect people to work in the office.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on March 16, 2020, 04:29:46 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 16, 2020, 02:32:24 PM

Rumor out of Italy, and France is that Anti Inflammatory drugs make this worse.  Consider not taking them if you or someone you know has symptoms.

Please do not give medical advice.  This is not against you personally, Hards, but a PSA to everyone:

Nobody should be giving any medical advice that is rumored, anecdotal, experimental, etc.  Unless you're directly quoting the CDC website (in which case, please provide a link), this really needs to stop.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on March 16, 2020, 04:30:26 PM

Quote from: MUfan12 on March 16, 2020, 04:26:50 PM

For those who are in an office setting... what have the policies/communication looked like from your company?

The company I work for has basically taken the stance that unless the authorities order offices to close, people are expected to come in. So far they are only allowing people to work from home 2 days/week if their job allows for it. I'm furious with our leadership on this. It's irresponsible and borderline dangerous.

Before I completely die on this hill at work, I'm just curious how common this is for companies (especially in MKE) to continue to expect people to work in the office.

I basically told mine I'm working from home effective tomorrow. Am being allowed to. My situation is probably kind of unique (small firm, lots of transition, I can manage clients with a phone and email, and courthouses closing en mas)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on March 16, 2020, 04:30:35 PM

Quote from: MUfan12 on March 16, 2020, 04:26:50 PM

For those who are in an office setting... what have the policies/communication looked like from your company?

The company I work for has basically taken the stance that unless the authorities order offices to close, people are expected to come in. So far they are only allowing people to work from home 2 days/week if their job allows for it. I'm furious with our leadership on this. It's irresponsible and borderline dangerous.

Before I completely die on this hill at work, I'm just curious how common this is for companies (especially in MKE) to continue to expect people to work in the office.

Just got out of an annual infectious disease class with 50 other people. During this the instructor was talking about covid 19 and told us we shouldn't gather in groups over 10.

 ::) ::) ::)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on March 16, 2020, 04:34:54 PM

I asked our company president last week if they had any plans. His response was we can stay 6 feet apart so keep coming to work!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 16, 2020, 04:44:58 PM

Quote from: Benny B on March 16, 2020, 04:29:46 PM

Please do not give medical advice.  This is not against you personally, Hards, but a PSA to everyone:

Nobody should be giving any medical advice that is rumored, anecdotal, experimental, etc.  Unless you're directly quoting the CDC website (in which case, please provide a link), this really needs to stop.

Obviously.  But I'm not telling people to take something.  I think there is definitely an in between here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 16, 2020, 04:46:13 PM

I work for a fortune 500 company and previous to all this I was in the habit of working from home whenever I felt like it. Obviously went in for in person meetings and briefs but most of my engagements were virtual anyway.

My boss told all his direct reports to work from home if desired but he nor the company have pushed it to a requirement, in fact any statements have always ended with "if it is necessary for you" or the like.

We had a bit of good luck that we had a project in the works to offload bandwidth from our VPNs (things like authentication of productivity tools and emails - Skype, Teams, Outlook, etc) that they deployed two weeks early and some short term capacity improvements that should enable all of us to work remotely. Without that I could see where there would be issues.

Tough decision point for companies, they have to keep the lights on but they may not have the capacity to go virtual so what do you do?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 16, 2020, 04:47:26 PM

Quote from: MUfan12 on March 16, 2020, 04:26:50 PM

For those who are in an office setting... what have the policies/communication looked like from your company?

The company I work for has basically taken the stance that unless the authorities order offices to close, people are expected to come in. So far they are only allowing people to work from home 2 days/week if their job allows for it. I'm furious with our leadership on this. It's irresponsible and borderline dangerous.

Before I completely die on this hill at work, I'm just curious how common this is for companies (especially in MKE) to continue to expect people to work in the office.

We got a global email on Friday that more or less said employees were expected to come into the office unless local authorities dictated otherwise. Apparently this didn't go over so well, and we received emails each of the last 2 days backing off that stance and trying to give local teams more autonomy to make decisions. As of now, it seems we are being encouraged to work from home if possible. Offices will remain open, but visitors will be limited and there was even talk of a temperature taking policy being instituted.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU11W on March 16, 2020, 04:47:45 PM

Quote from: MUfan12 on March 16, 2020, 04:26:50 PM

For those who are in an office setting... what have the policies/communication looked like from your company?

The company I work for has basically taken the stance that unless the authorities order offices to close, people are expected to come in. So far they are only allowing people to work from home 2 days/week if their job allows for it. I'm furious with our leadership on this. It's irresponsible and borderline dangerous.

Before I completely die on this hill at work, I'm just curious how common this is for companies (especially in MKE) to continue to expect people to work in the office.

Not in Milwaukee, but Chicago. We received a mandate to WFH until further notice late Thursday afternoon - So WFH started on Friday.  Prior to that, we were encouraged to WFH if we felt unsafe due to our commute of just being in the office.

I feel like just about everyone I know with an office job in the Chicago area is WFH at least until the end of the month.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 16, 2020, 04:48:57 PM

Quote from: Greggery Peccary on March 16, 2020, 04:34:54 PM

I asked our company president last week if they had any plans. His response was we can stay 6 feet apart so keep coming to work!

While this made me roll my eyes, it also made me wonder: what are food rendering, processing, and packaging plants doing?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 16, 2020, 04:49:17 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 16, 2020, 03:24:53 PM

I looked into the pandemic response closure a little bit since I hadn't actually read any articles on that yet. So far, I've just seen the statement and took it as fact. What I found was.... no surprise, very conflicting accounts.

Beth Cameron , the former Senior Director at the NSC, says the team was dissolved and not replaced. But Tim Morrison, another former senior director at the NSC, says the NSC was reorganized, and the counterproliferation and biodefense office now has pandemic preparedness within its scope.

What's the average joe to believe?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/nsc-pandemic-office-trump-closed/2020/03/13/a70de09c-6491-11ea-acca-80c22bbee96f_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/nsc-pandemic-office-trump-closed/2020/03/13/a70de09c-6491-11ea-acca-80c22bbee96f_story.html)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/16/no-white-house-didnt-dissolve-its-pandemic-response-office/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/16/no-white-house-didnt-dissolve-its-pandemic-response-office/)

If it didn't dissolve, they would have internal memos, minutes of meetings, pandemic preparedness plans. It would be pretty easy for someone in the office to show them to the public if indeed they exist. And if it still exists, the administration would have talked about when the outbreak occurred. Instead, we are only reading about it after the fact, when rumors surfaced that it was simply abolished.
________________

Edit: And Dr. Fauci at NIH - someone who would be in a position to know - told Congress that it was eliminated:

"We worked very well with that office. It would be nice if the office was still there," Dr. Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said during a House Oversight and Reform Committee hearing on Wednesday.

https://www.businessinsider.com/fauci-would-be-nice-trump-hadnt-scrapped-nsc-global-health-2020-3

Seems like Dr.Fauci is a person the average Joe can believe.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 16, 2020, 04:58:30 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 16, 2020, 04:48:57 PM

While this made me roll my eyes, it also made me wonder: what are food rendering, processing, and packaging plants doing?

Those plants are largely automated these days, especially the ones at scale. Typical processing plant might have 200 people in it but spread across thousands of square feet.

Generally speaking, manufacturing and distribution (plant floors) should be fine unless they get a rash of workers getting sick.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 16, 2020, 04:58:30 PM

Quote from: Benny B on March 16, 2020, 04:29:46 PM

Please do not give medical advice.  This is not against you personally, Hards, but a PSA to everyone:

Nobody should be giving any medical advice that is rumored, anecdotal, experimental, etc.  Unless you're directly quoting the CDC website (in which case, please provide a link), this really needs to stop.

Generally agree, but in fairness to Hards, he did say it was a rumor. And the first thing I might have taken if I had a fever would be ibuprofen. For a little more substance, it looks like it came from France's Minister of Health, who acknowledges they need more data:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/14/anti-inflammatory-drugs-may-aggravate-coronavirus-infection

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: BM1090 on March 16, 2020, 05:09:18 PM

Quote from: MUfan12 on March 16, 2020, 04:26:50 PM

For those who are in an office setting... what have the policies/communication looked like from your company?

The company I work for has basically taken the stance that unless the authorities order offices to close, people are expected to come in. So far they are only allowing people to work from home 2 days/week if their job allows for it. I'm furious with our leadership on this. It's irresponsible and borderline dangerous.

Before I completely die on this hill at work, I'm just curious how common this is for companies (especially in MKE) to continue to expect people to work in the office.

I work for a local Fortune 500 company and we've been encouraged to work remotely. Had our quarterly meeting today and it went fully remote. We're allowed to go into the office if we want but leadership has made it quite clear they would prefer us not to do so.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 16, 2020, 05:41:17 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 16, 2020, 04:58:30 PM

Those plants are largely automated these days, especially the ones at scale. Typical processing plant might have 200 people in it but spread across thousands of square feet.

Generally speaking, manufacturing and distribution (plant floors) should be fine unless they get a rash of workers getting sick.

Ok, makes sense on processing and packaging.  Rendering, however...I've been in a chicken rendering plant and...yeah. But I suppose that is a relatively small portion of the overall food chain.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 16, 2020, 05:44:33 PM

I work for a medium sized $800m company.   We started planning last week to get as many people to work from home as possible.   Spent most of the last two days setting people up with remote access, phones, etc at my 100 person office.   The warehouse staff will keep shipping, but all office staff starts from home tomorrow.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 16, 2020, 05:54:43 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 16, 2020, 05:44:33 PM

I work for a medium sized $800m company.   We started planning last week to get as many people to work from home as possible.   Spent most of the last two days setting people up with remote access, phones, etc at my 100 person office.   The warehouse staff will keep shipping, but all office staff starts from home tomorrow.

Dunder Mifflin?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 16, 2020, 06:04:24 PM

A dental office In which I know the personnel, they are seeing patients as I still am following the ADA guidelines as much as we can, they are having patients rinse their mouths with peroxide pre-op...hmm, if anyone has ever heard of that one and what the....efficacy is there...I am all ears.

might as shut the office down for chriminey sakes

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 16, 2020, 06:13:24 PM

we've had patients do chlorhexidine before but not as a routine.  but peroxide?  because it's much cheaper?  if i'm a patient, can i have the cow urine instead?  about the only thing this accomplishes is further p!ssing off the patient imho of course.  i ain't having someone put something in their mouths that i wouldn't myself do...well almost all ;)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 16, 2020, 06:14:41 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 16, 2020, 06:04:24 PM

A dental office In which I know the personnel, they are seeing patients as I still am following the ADA guidelines as much as we can, they are having patients rinse their mouths with peroxide pre-op...hmm, if anyone has ever heard of that one and what the....efficacy is there...I am all ears.

might as shut the office down for chriminey sakes

The Illinois Dental Association today recommended dentists see only emergency patients. I suspect that recommendation will spread nationwide.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 16, 2020, 06:20:49 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 16, 2020, 06:13:24 PM

we've had patients do chlorhexidine before but not as a routine.  but peroxide?  because it's much cheaper?  if i'm a patient, can i have the cow urine instead?  about the only thing this accomplishes is further p!ssing off the patient imho of course.  i ain't having someone put something in their mouths that i wouldn't myself do...well almost all ;)

Today I was given a prescription strength mouthwash before they did anything in my mouth.

Don't know what it is, but I was okay with it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: keefe on March 16, 2020, 06:21:24 PM

I live in downtown Seattle. A couple weeks ago, the Bureau Chief of the LA Times told me that most everyone here had already been exposed to the virus.

Myself and many friends caught it. It's like a very mild flu - headache, body ache, low grade fever, dry cough, and lethargy.

We were all told that if there was a temperature spike or shortness of breath then get to a hospital. But otherwise, self quarantine while taking fluids and resting.

We all stayed home while continuing our work productivity. If you are fit, healthy, and maintain situational awareness it is the same as managing a cold. The elderly and those with immunity issues are the ones at risk.

The degree of hysteria around this is decidedly over the top.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 16, 2020, 06:32:37 PM

Quote from: keefe on March 16, 2020, 06:21:24 PM

I live in downtown Seattle. A couple weeks ago, the Bureau Chief of the LA Times told me that most everyone here had already been exposed to the virus.

Myself and many friends caught it. It's like a very mild flu - headache, body ache, low grade fever, dry cough, and lethargy.

We were all told that if there was a temperature spike or shortness of breath then get to a hospital. But otherwise, self quarantine while taking fluids and resting.

We all stayed home while continuing our work productivity. If you are fit, healthy, and maintain situational awareness it is the same as managing a cold. The elderly and those with immunity issues are the ones at risk.

The degree of hysteria around this is decidedly over the top.

nope.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 16, 2020, 06:43:40 PM

Quote from: jficke13 on March 16, 2020, 04:30:26 PM

I basically told mine I'm working from home effective tomorrow. Am being allowed to. My situation is probably kind of unique (small firm, lots of transition, I can manage clients with a phone and email, and courthouses closing en mas)

Everyone who can work from home will be doing so as of Wednesday through March 30.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 16, 2020, 06:44:16 PM

Quote from: keefe on March 16, 2020, 06:21:24 PM

I live in downtown Seattle. A couple weeks ago, the Bureau Chief of the LA Times told me that most everyone here had already been exposed to the virus.

Myself and many friends caught it. It's like a very mild flu - headache, body ache, low grade fever, dry cough, and lethargy.

We were all told that if there was a temperature spike or shortness of breath then get to a hospital. But otherwise, self quarantine while taking fluids and resting.

We all stayed home while continuing our work productivity. If you are fit, healthy, and maintain situational awareness it is the same as managing a cold. The elderly and those with immunity issues are the ones at risk.

The degree of hysteria around this is decidedly over the top.

Then why would you have to quarantine?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 16, 2020, 06:49:50 PM

Quote from: keefe on March 16, 2020, 06:21:24 PM

I live in downtown Seattle. A couple weeks ago, the Bureau Chief of the LA Times told me that most everyone here had already been exposed to the virus.

Myself and many friends caught it. It's like a very mild flu - headache, body ache, low grade fever, dry cough, and lethargy.

We were all told that if there was a temperature spike or shortness of breath then get to a hospital. But otherwise, self quarantine while taking fluids and resting.

We all stayed home while continuing our work productivity. If you are fit, healthy, and maintain situational awareness it is the same as managing a cold. The elderly and those with immunity issues are the ones at risk.

The degree of hysteria around this is decidedly over the top.

How do you know you had it? Were you tested? If so, why, you do not fit any of the recommendations on who should be tested?

How did the bureau chief of the LA Times know this? He couldn't, nobody knows this.

The WHO, the rest of the world, every major health organization, and your friends at Fred Hutch say otherwise.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 16, 2020, 06:59:10 PM

Quote from: MUfan12 on March 16, 2020, 04:26:50 PM

For those who are in an office setting... what have the policies/communication looked like from your company?

The company I work for has basically taken the stance that unless the authorities order offices to close, people are expected to come in. So far they are only allowing people to work from home 2 days/week if their job allows for it. I'm furious with our leadership on this. It's irresponsible and borderline dangerous.

Before I completely die on this hill at work, I'm just curious how common this is for companies (especially in MKE) to continue to expect people to work in the office.

Work for a company in Fondy with about 275 in office.  plenty had already telecommuted but the directive is now if you can do your job from home stay home.  We also have contractors on a large project from all over the country that have been told to not fly in until told otherwise.  So we are basically completely virtual. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 16, 2020, 07:00:03 PM

For those that were discussing NSAID's and Acetaminophen.....

For example, I have a relative with Leukemia as well as no RH Factor 7 for blod clotting. They are not allowed to have an aspirin. But they can have high doses of Acetaminophen daily as needed. acetaminophen helps reduce fevers. The average person could hypothetically take 3k to 4k daily safely.

When you get strong, acute short term pain, NSAIDS are the way to go. .....a few days etc...

For Coronavirus, flu etc...Acetaminophen helps reduce fevers. It also helps muscular aches etc...and as many know it takes a longer to work than NSAIDS....that and dry cough treatments can be helpful for mild symptoms.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 16, 2020, 07:06:16 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 16, 2020, 06:20:49 PM

Today I was given a prescription strength mouthwash before they did anything in my mouth.

Don't know what it is, but I was okay with it.

probably chlorhexidine-actually is ok tasting...better than peroxide

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 16, 2020, 07:09:05 PM

Quote from: keefe on March 16, 2020, 06:21:24 PM

I live in downtown Seattle. A couple weeks ago, the Bureau Chief of the LA Times told me that most everyone here had already been exposed to the virus.

Myself and many friends caught it. It's like a very mild flu - headache, body ache, low grade fever, dry cough, and lethargy.

We were all told that if there was a temperature spike or shortness of breath then get to a hospital. But otherwise, self quarantine while taking fluids and resting.

We all stayed home while continuing our work productivity. If you are fit, healthy, and maintain situational awareness it is the same as managing a cold. The elderly and those with immunity issues are the ones at risk.

The degree of hysteria around this is decidedly over the top.

The "degree of hysteria" perhaps helped get you and others with COVID-19 to self-quarantine so y'all don't infect the most at-risk people.

For example, is it "hysteria" to tell folks like you with it (if indeed you have/had it) to not go out to restaurants, bars and other public places, where you could easily infect those with compromised immune systems?

In all likelihood, 'Merica did not have enough "hysteria" the first several weeks after the coronavirus became an issue. Perhaps the "penalty" for that shortsightedness and dishonesty is more hysteria now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Eldon on March 16, 2020, 07:11:40 PM

Metra almost certain to switch to a modified schedule.

Likely will start Wednesday.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Eldon on March 16, 2020, 07:16:26 PM

Quote from: keefe on March 16, 2020, 06:21:24 PM

I live in downtown Seattle. A couple weeks ago, the Bureau Chief of the LA Times told me that most everyone here had already been exposed to the virus.

Myself and many friends caught it. It's like a very mild flu - headache, body ache, low grade fever, dry cough, and lethargy.

We were all told that if there was a temperature spike or shortness of breath then get to a hospital. But otherwise, self quarantine while taking fluids and resting.

We all stayed home while continuing our work productivity. If you are fit, healthy, and maintain situational awareness it is the same as managing a cold. The elderly and those with immunity issues are the ones at risk.

The degree of hysteria around this is decidedly over the top.

My friend is relatively young, fit, etc and is past the 14 days.

Fever is long gone. Cough is mostly gone. Shortness of breath is getting better. The lethargy is just now starting to kick in.

Was that your experience as well? Lethargy follows everything else?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Chili on March 16, 2020, 07:30:14 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 16, 2020, 04:48:57 PM

While this made me roll my eyes, it also made me wonder: what are food rendering, processing, and packaging plants doing?

Our brewery is still up and running production standpoint on essential output only. We've changed our packaging mix  and have gone to smaller shifts. Non-essential employee to the operations side of the business are all working from home though this has been done on a manager to manager basis and not a global directive. (We're part of a Global 1000 company with operations all over the planet including Wuhan). This was a given for me after I saw co-workers at out at bars on Saturday via instagram. We have very strict protocols in place where no one who doesn't work for the company is allowed on site. All employees must go to cleaning station as soon as the enter either building. We have daily briefing emails and are now using Zoom to conduct business.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on March 16, 2020, 07:33:31 PM

Appreciate the responses, all. We're a manufacturer so that group is still running with distancing and sanitation practices in place.

Where I struggle is with the office staff and engineering groups. 90% of those people could work remotely with no problem.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 16, 2020, 07:36:14 PM

800 employees in 2 offices in WI.  Mandatory WFH started today.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on March 16, 2020, 07:40:48 PM

Quote from: keefe on March 16, 2020, 06:21:24 PM

I live in downtown Seattle. A couple weeks ago, the Bureau Chief of the LA Times told me that most everyone here had already been exposed to the virus.

Myself and many friends caught it. It's like a very mild flu - headache, body ache, low grade fever, dry cough, and lethargy.

We were all told that if there was a temperature spike or shortness of breath then get to a hospital. But otherwise, self quarantine while taking fluids and resting.

We all stayed home while continuing our work productivity. If you are fit, healthy, and maintain situational awareness it is the same as managing a cold. The elderly and those with immunity issues are the ones at risk.

The degree of hysteria around this is decidedly over the top.

Thanks for sharing Keefe. Good luck on a full recovery.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on March 16, 2020, 07:42:11 PM

Quote from: MU82 on March 16, 2020, 07:09:05 PM

For example, is it "hysteria" to tell folks like you with it (if indeed you have/had it) to not go out to restaurants, bars and other public places, where you could easily infect those with compromised immune systems?

This thinking should be standard for any communicable diseases.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 16, 2020, 08:01:12 PM

Keefe,

Glad you are recovering, and that you had access to testing to verify what you have.

Goooo

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Sir Lawrence on March 16, 2020, 08:16:05 PM

Divorce rates increase in post quarantine China:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inquisitr.com/5946548/china-divorce-rates-coronavirus/amp/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Eldon on March 16, 2020, 08:16:21 PM

https://www.youtube.com/v/dSQztKXR6k0

A short, informative clip.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 16, 2020, 08:17:20 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 16, 2020, 04:49:17 PM

If it didn't dissolve, they would have internal memos, minutes of meetings, pandemic preparedness plans. It would be pretty easy for someone in the office to show them to the public if indeed they exist. And if it still exists, the administration would have talked about when the outbreak occurred. Instead, we are only reading about it after the fact, when rumors surfaced that it was simply abolished.
________________

Edit: And Dr. Fauci at NIH - someone who would be in a position to know - told Congress that it was eliminated:

"We worked very well with that office. It would be nice if the office was still there," Dr. Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said during a House Oversight and Reform Committee hearing on Wednesday.

https://www.businessinsider.com/fauci-would-be-nice-trump-hadnt-scrapped-nsc-global-health-2020-3

Seems like Dr.Fauci is a person the average Joe can believe.

The WP article I shared had a link to a biodefese strategy published in 2018. So it does seem like the current group did have some kind of plan that likely influenced the US response. It just seems to have been inadequate or too slow.

As to Dr. Fauci, I would agree that he has become a trustworthy face of the crisis that the average American can believe. His motivations seem very straightforward; I don't see him as one to play politics.

Media members quoting him, on the other hand, may be a slightly less honest in their representation of his words. The AP article linked below shows a little longer version of the quote you shared that has a slightly different perspective included. The full quote is “It would be nice if the office was still there. I wouldn’t necessarily characterize it as a mistake (to eliminate the unit). I would say we worked very well with that office.” Of course that quote gives a nice snippet to "both sides" so I don't expect to see it many places outside the AP.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/National-Biodefense-Strategy.pdf (https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/National-Biodefense-Strategy.pdf)

https://apnews.com/ce014d94b64e98b7203b873e56f80e9a (https://apnews.com/ce014d94b64e98b7203b873e56f80e9a)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 16, 2020, 08:18:33 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 16, 2020, 08:01:12 PM

Keefe,

Glad you are recovering, and that you had access to testing to verify what you have.

Goooo

Where did he say this?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 16, 2020, 08:24:58 PM

Seems to me we can go about this in 1 of 2 ways, and we haven't chosen either yet (and time is running out to pick one):

1. Pause everything. Social isolation/quarantine for 4-6 weeks. Complete shutdown of all social interaction. This includes 90% of working. So, we have to have a large, temporary safety net: Rent/mortgage/utilities/loan repayments are suspended; short-term UBI for necessities. And, because of the huge economic impact not working will have, we literally pause the stock market until things begin running again.

In this scenario, we're accepting short-term restraint and hardship and the payout is decreased lives lost.

2. Stop nothing. Society functions as normal. Schools open. Everyone works. Economy and employment continue at full-tilt.

In this scenario, we're accepting increased deaths but hopefully only to the susceptible. We quickly allow this to move through society and have pre-planned categories for who gets serious medical intervention vs observation/acceptance. Payout is (mostly) consistent economic output.

I don't honestly see how we can go halfway between the two without a total clusterunnatural carnal knowledge

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 16, 2020, 08:37:43 PM

Quote from: keefe on March 16, 2020, 06:21:24 PM

I live in downtown Seattle. A couple weeks ago, the Bureau Chief of the LA Times told me that most everyone here had already been exposed to the virus.

Myself and many friends caught it. It's like a very mild flu - headache, body ache, low grade fever, dry cough, and lethargy.

We were all told that if there was a temperature spike or shortness of breath then get to a hospital. But otherwise, self quarantine while taking fluids and resting.

We all stayed home while continuing our work productivity. If you are fit, healthy, and maintain situational awareness it is the same as managing a cold. The elderly and those with immunity issues are the ones at risk.

The degree of hysteria around this is decidedly over the top.

thanks for sharing crash!  keep our economy pumpin!

on another note-just printed out my boarding pass-SWA -if i get on that bad boy, i am fully aware i may be driving back 1900 miles, but my bride needs her husband's support.  i'll let ya'll know, or whoever really cares, if i make it.

    one more thing about the greatness of MU-i've been corresponding with the new advancement team at MUSOD.  we are trying to arrange a meet n greet, but between this virus thingy and our schedules, we've had to change it a few times.  i've never met this lady...yet, but her last note to me was,

    "I’m not sure if you are spiritual or religious, but I attached a prayer that came across my desk this morning."

  i told her hell yeah and it's traveling with me down to phoenix!  now that's the difference!

 

 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 16, 2020, 08:39:16 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 16, 2020, 08:18:33 PM

Where did he say this?

Looking back, I guess he didn’t directly say “I tested positive for covid-19.” However he did say:

“I live in downtown Seattle. A couple weeks ago, the Bureau Chief of the LA Times told me that most everyone here had already been exposed to the virus.

Myself and many friends caught it.“

Since this thread is about covid-19, that clearly would be “it.” And since the only way to know for sure that he had “it” (as opposed to the flu) would be through a positive test result, I trusted that he was being straightforward with us. I suppose he could just be guessing (or lying), but would like to believe otherwise.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 16, 2020, 08:50:06 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 16, 2020, 08:24:58 PM

Seems to me we can go about this in 1 of 2 ways, and we haven't chosen either yet (and time is running out to pick one):

1. Pause everything. Social isolation/quarantine for 4-6 weeks. Complete shutdown of all social interaction. This includes 90% of working. So, we have to have a large, temporary safety net: Rent/mortgage/utilities/loan repayments are suspended; short-term UBI for necessities. And, because of the huge economic impact not working will have, we literally pause the stock market until things begin running again.

In this scenario, we're accepting short-term restraint and hardship and the payout is decreased lives lost.

2. Stop nothing. Society functions as normal. Schools open. Everyone works. Economy and employment continue at full-tilt.

In this scenario, we're accepting increased deaths but hopefully only to the susceptible. We quickly allow this to move through society and have pre-planned categories for who gets serious medical intervention vs observation/acceptance. Payout is (mostly) consistent economic output.

I don't honestly see how we can go halfway between the two without a total clusterunnatural carnal knowledge

In general, I agree, and think we should go for #1.

However, we need to have a sound plan for necessities, like making sure everyone has access to food and medications. Maybe that means people go out for it, or maybe we develop a robust delivery apparatus.

Additionally, I think there should be a narrow and clearly defined exception for asymptomatic people to get outside. Nature is good for both physical and mental health, so it would seem reasonable to let very small groups (individuals, couples) go out for a walk or a run or a bike ride. Maybe a strict limit in number of people together or something, arrested on site if in a bigger group. It just seems like that would be good for health, morale and sanity...and perhaps increase compliance.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 16, 2020, 08:57:41 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 16, 2020, 08:37:43 PM

thanks for sharing crash!  keep our economy pumpin!

on another note-just printed out my boarding pass-SWA -if i get on that bad boy, i am fully aware i may be driving back 1900 miles, but my bride needs her husband's support.  i'll let ya'll know, or whoever really cares, if i make it.

    one more thing about the greatness of MU-i've been corresponding with the new advancement team at MUSOD.  we are trying to arrange a meet n greet, but between this virus thingy and our schedules, we've had to change it a few times.  i've never met this lady...yet, but her last note to me was,

    "I’m not sure if you are spiritual or religious, but I attached a prayer that came across my desk this morning."

  i told her hell yeah and it's traveling with me down to phoenix!  now that's the difference!

Hope you have a safe flight Rocket, and hope all is well with your wife. Please be careful while traveling, and take precautions to reduce exposure.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 16, 2020, 09:12:38 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 16, 2020, 08:57:41 PM

Hope you have a safe flight Rocket, and hope all is well with your wife. Please be careful while traveling, and take precautions to reduce exposure.

thank you forget!!  8-)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 16, 2020, 09:27:14 PM

just watchin laura ingraham-had a dr on talking about 2 drugs-chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine.  have been around since WWII.    double blind studies showed good efficacy to shorten the length of illness and decrease it's symptoms.  also can be used prophylactically to diminish symptoms.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on March 16, 2020, 09:34:26 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 16, 2020, 08:50:06 PM

In general, I agree, and think we should go for #1.

However, we need to have a sound plan for necessities, like making sure everyone has access to food and medications. Maybe that means people go out for it, or maybe we develop a robust delivery apparatus.

IMO, if we do this, the number of businesses that will fail leaving people/families jobless would easily dwarf the number of possible deaths due to Covid.  You have a large number of companies, including my own, who are or have become heavily dependent on China/Asia for either sales or logistical/manufacturing/etc... they’ve been hurting for a long time, which came to a head when China shut down for a month during a normally high volume time, right as it seemed like they would make back some of the trade war time losses as China revved up a bit. So you take those stretched businesses and have them shutter for a month. Good night. Companies in the $2-$10MM annual range that haven’t had a great start to 2020 will be torched.  Forgive me for thinking that a nanny state government program set up for that situation will help at all.

Restaurant staff will be pummeled as well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 16, 2020, 09:36:45 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on March 16, 2020, 09:34:26 PM

IMO, if we do this, the number of businesses that will fail leaving people/families jobless would easily dwarf the number of possible deaths due to Covid.  You have a large number of companies, including my own, who are or have become heavily dependent on China/Asia for either sales or logistical/manufacturing/etc... they’ve been hurting for a long time, which came to a head when China shut down for a month during a normally high volume time, right as it seemed like they would make back some of the trade war time losses as China revved up a bit. So you take those stretched businesses and have them shutter for a month. Good night. Companies in the $2-$10MM annual range that haven’t had a great start to 2020 will be torched.  Forgive me for thinking that a nanny state government program set up for that situation will help at all.

Restaurant staff will be pummeled as well.

Well, there’s always jesmu84’s option #2....

Half measures aren’t likely to cut it, and will probably eventually get us to #1 anyway (see Italy...or the USA from one day to the next).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 16, 2020, 09:39:32 PM

https://twitter.com/MC_of_A/status/1239739685490102278?s=20

Shut down the quarantine. Get back to work. Open everything up.

Let's mentally prepare now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 16, 2020, 09:46:59 PM

In January, German Scientists developed the first Coronavirus test. Sixty countries said yes, we will use your test, or, at the very least, we will use your test until we develop our own. U.S. Administration said no. People can discuss Xenophobia, Provincial attitudes, and so on...but this right here is beyond the comprehension of many.

https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article206555143/Corona-USA-will-Zugriff-auf-deutsche-Impfstoff-Firma.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 16, 2020, 09:51:02 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 16, 2020, 09:39:32 PM

https://twitter.com/MC_of_A/status/1239739685490102278?s=20

Shut down the quarantine. Get back to work. Open everything up.

Let's mentally prepare now.

Good news, yes. But that assumes we start with something resembling a lockdown, right?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 16, 2020, 09:53:49 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 16, 2020, 09:51:02 PM

Good news, yes. But that assumes we start with something resembling a lockdown, right?

Perhaps my post was unclear.

It seems we're too late for much prevention, as per that tweet.

Accept it's going to rampage, healthcare is going to be overwhelmed and people are going to die.

Let's open everything back up and not lose the economy too.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 16, 2020, 09:58:45 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 16, 2020, 09:53:49 PM

Perhaps my post was unclear.

It seems we're too late for much prevention, as per that tweet.

Accept it's going to rampage, healthcare is going to be overwhelmed and people are going to die.

Let's open everything back up and not lose the economy too.

Guess I don’t see that in the tweet. It appears to say that if we were to implement something like Italy’s lockdown, we’d get to where they now are (leveling off of new cases). We still are below Italy in cases per capita, so it would seem we’d still have time.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 16, 2020, 10:00:36 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 16, 2020, 09:39:32 PM

https://twitter.com/MC_of_A/status/1239739685490102278?s=20

Shut down the quarantine. Get back to work. Open everything up.

Let's mentally prepare now.

One potential complicating factor could be on the limits of testing. Are the cases Italy is seeing essentially the max they can based on total possible number of tests? Or is it really leveling off.

Let's say the maximum number of test they can run a day is 10k. And on average 30% are positive. Well, then you can only have 3k new positive tests a day, but there may be 50k tests a day waiting to be run, so true positive would be 15k new cases.

I have no idea on the capacity of Italian testing, or how much is going untested, but seeing it level off does not necessarily mean anything is working (obviously it is having some effect, but stoping things, who knows).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 16, 2020, 10:01:21 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 16, 2020, 09:46:59 PM

In January, German Scientists developed the first Coronavirus test. Sixty countries said yes, we will use your test, or, at the very least, we will use your test until we develop our own. U.S. Administration said no. People can discuss Xenophobia, Provincial attitudes, and so on...but this right here is beyond the comprehension of many.

https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article206555143/Corona-USA-will-Zugriff-auf-deutsche-Impfstoff-Firma.html

Why am I not surprised?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 16, 2020, 10:02:06 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 16, 2020, 09:58:45 PM

Guess I don’t see that in the tweet. It appears to say that if we were to implement something like Italy’s lockdown, we’d get to where they now are (leveling off of new cases). We still are below Italy in cases per capita, so it would seem we’d still have time.

Fair.

Guess I extrapolated it a bit on my own.

If we are going to be Italy (in terms of virus spread/death), then let's save the economy.

If we are going to be SK, then perhaps it's worth losing a bit of the economy.

And it would seem that we reacted too late and with not enough force to be SK.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on March 16, 2020, 10:02:45 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 16, 2020, 06:49:50 PM

How did the bureau chief of the LA Times know this? He couldn't, nobody knows this.

Maybe that was the jab?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 16, 2020, 10:02:57 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 16, 2020, 10:00:36 PM

One potential complicating factor could be on the limits of testing. Are the cases Italy is seeing essentially the max they can based on total possible number of tests? Or is it really leveling off.

Let's say the maximum number of test they can run a day is 10k. And on average 30% are positive. Well, then you can only have 3k new positive tests a day, but there may be 50k tests a day waiting to be run, so true positive would be 15k new cases.

I have no idea on the capacity of Italian testing, or how much is going untested, but seeing it level off does not necessarily mean anything is working (obviously it is having some effect, but stoping things, who knows).

Good questions here.

Don't have the answers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on March 16, 2020, 10:05:45 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 16, 2020, 09:46:59 PM

In January, German Scientists developed the first Coronavirus test. Sixty countries said yes, we will use your test, or, at the very least, we will use your test until we develop our own. U.S. Administration said no. People can discuss Xenophobia, Provincial attitudes, and so on...but this right here is beyond the comprehension of many.

https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article206555143/Corona-USA-will-Zugriff-auf-deutsche-Impfstoff-Firma.html

Is the part about Germany wanting to charge the US a 10x price to subsidize testing for the rest of the world in there?  What about the part where seniors can take a bus tour to Tijuana to score a test for pennies on the dollar.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: real chili 83 on March 16, 2020, 10:06:20 PM

Shutting down society does not work.  We need supply chain open. Period. Yes, “office” employees, where practical, should work from home. However, it’s not realistic for all.

I don’t have data to support my optimism, but vaccines are being tested in Seattle this week on humans.

I run our pandemic plan.  I’ve sent home at risk employees, pregnant employees, and sick with symptoms employees.  I’ve also had to talk to “low risk, perfectly healthy” employees about serving our supply chain. 

Strange times no doubt.  We’ve got great employees who are a mix of dedicated, smart, hard working, courageous, and innovative.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 16, 2020, 10:07:27 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 16, 2020, 10:02:06 PM

Fair.

Guess I extrapolated it a bit on my own.

If we are going to be Italy (in terms of virus spread/death), then let's save the economy.

If we are going to be SK, then perhaps it's worth losing a bit of the economy.

And it would seem that we reacted too late and with not enough force to be SK.

Perhaps. But our economy has always been much stronger than Italy’s, so we have more wiggle room.

But your initial point is valid. We need to DEFINITIVELY choose either #1 or #2, instead of gradually crawling from #2 to #1, like we currently are.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 16, 2020, 10:09:52 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 16, 2020, 08:24:58 PM

2. Stop nothing. Society functions as normal. Schools open. Everyone works. Economy and employment continue at full-tilt.

In this scenario, we're accepting increased deaths but hopefully only to the susceptible. We quickly allow this to move through society and have pre-planned categories for who gets serious medical intervention vs observation/acceptance. Payout is (mostly) consistent economic output.

I don't honestly see how we can go halfway between the two without a total clusterunnatural carnal knowledge

Sounds like we'd be sacrificing old people so as not to inconvenience the rest of us.

So instead of the fake "death panels" of a decade ago, we would have the real thing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on March 16, 2020, 10:11:54 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 16, 2020, 10:09:52 PM

Sounds like we'd be sacrificing old people so as not to inconvenience the rest of us.

So instead of the fake "death panels" of a decade ago, we would have the real thing.

Ok, Boomer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on March 16, 2020, 10:13:45 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 16, 2020, 10:09:52 PM

Sounds like we'd be sacrificing old people so as not to inconvenience the rest of us.

So instead of the fake "death panels" of a decade ago, we would have the real thing.

Glad you viewing people losing their businesses, jobs, or livelihoods as an “inconvenience”.

Nobody is saying this is easy or we should act with wanton disregard for life. But acting like there is a straightforward choice between compassion for all humans and outright greed/selfishness is a biased take on the situation and absurdly simplistic

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 16, 2020, 10:31:51 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 16, 2020, 10:09:52 PM

Sounds like we'd be sacrificing old people so as not to inconvenience the rest of us.

So instead of the fake "death panels" of a decade ago, we would have the real thing.

Not exactly what I'm saying.

But have you tried to envision the other scenario? We try to save everyone and tank the economy leading to a long-term depression? Who do you think gets "sacrificed" in that scenario? Don't think people die of poverty-related diseases/afflictions?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 16, 2020, 10:45:45 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 16, 2020, 10:31:51 PM

Not exactly what I'm saying.

But have you tried to envision the other scenario? We try to save everyone and tank the economy leading to a long-term depression? Who do you think gets "sacrificed" in that scenario? Don't think people die of poverty-related diseases/afflictions?

Are letting masses of people  - even apparently less valuable older people - die or long-term economic depression really the only options here?

Also, do you think the economy would survive unscathed a collapse of the health care system that likely would result from your option 2?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 16, 2020, 10:53:10 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 16, 2020, 10:31:51 PM

Not exactly what I'm saying.

But have you tried to envision the other scenario? We try to save everyone and tank the economy leading to a long-term depression? Who do you think gets "sacrificed" in that scenario? Don't think people die of poverty-related diseases/afflictions?

Wow. Just wow. I am speechless.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 16, 2020, 10:59:43 PM

Ford Pinto.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on March 16, 2020, 11:32:53 PM

I know this will come as a surprise to a few Scoopers, but every once in a while things actually aren’t about just you. Yes, most people will survive coronavirus without any serious issues if they get it. That’s not why there is hysteria over this. There is hysteria over it because it is incredibly contagious and incredibly dangerous for the elderly and those who have other health issues. That combination makes social distancing and quarantining very important. There isn’t always a physical appearance that tells you what people are at risk for serious health issues if they get the coronavirus.

The fact that we have someone saying, “The elderly and those with immunity issues are the ones at risk,” and immediately following it up with, “the degree of hysteria around this is decidedly over the top” says it all. Sometimes you have to be inconvenienced for the good of others.

Human lives are at risk. Yours might not be, and maybe nobody you know is at risk either. That’s not really the point, though.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 16, 2020, 11:33:40 PM

So many hot takes here. I cent believe some of you are willing to justify letting people die so you can make a few bucks.  Have you no compassion or decency? 

Disgusting reasoning and abhorrent suggestions.

I'm ashamed to be reading things like this from fellow graduates. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: keefe on March 16, 2020, 11:34:01 PM

Quote from: MU82 on March 16, 2020, 07:09:05 PM

The "degree of hysteria" perhaps helped get you and others with COVID-19 to self-quarantine so y'all don't infect the most at-risk people.

For example, is it "hysteria" to tell folks like you with it (if indeed you have/had it) to not go out to restaurants, bars and other public places, where you could easily infect those with compromised immune systems?

In all likelihood, 'Merica did not have enough "hysteria" the first several weeks after the coronavirus became an issue. Perhaps the "penalty" for that shortsightedness and dishonesty is more hysteria now.

I had it. As did many I know. That is a fact.

We self-quarantined because it was the ethical, responsible course of action. No one had to hold a gun to our head.

Hysteria is buying six months of toilet paper.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: keefe on March 16, 2020, 11:37:02 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 16, 2020, 06:44:16 PM

Then why would you have to quarantine?

To prevent the spreading it to those at risk.

That wasn't my point re hysteria.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: keefe on March 16, 2020, 11:40:36 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 16, 2020, 06:49:50 PM

How do you know you had it? Were you tested? If so, why, you do not fit any of the recommendations on who should be tested?

How did the bureau chief of the LA Times know this? He couldn't, nobody knows this.

The WHO, the rest of the world, every major health organization, and your friends at Fred Hutch say otherwise.

Anyone entering the Seattle VA is automatically tested.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 16, 2020, 11:41:26 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 16, 2020, 11:33:40 PM

So many hot takes here. I cent believe some of you are willing to justify letting people die so you can make a few bucks.  Have you no compassion or decency? 

Disgusting reasoning and abhorrent suggestions.

I'm ashamed to be reading things like this from fellow graduates.

Yep. Reminiscent of the Ford Pinto debacle. Callously sacrificing lives for cash.

We won’t be able to save all the lives, but as a civilized society, we can’t just give up in the name of commerce.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: keefe on March 16, 2020, 11:49:13 PM

Quote from: Eldon on March 16, 2020, 07:16:26 PM

My friend is relatively young, fit, etc and is past the 14 days.

Fever is long gone. Cough is mostly gone. Shortness of breath is getting better. The lethargy is just now starting to kick in.

Was that your experience as well? Lethargy follows everything else?

The illness runs for about two weeks. And lethargy sets in towards the end.

We personally know of at least two dozen confirmed cases here in Seattle and many more where the symptoms mirrored ours.

What is interesting is that they altered the criteria here because not everyone had all of the symptoms, especially shortness of breath.

We need to be mindful of its impact on those populations which are at mortal risk. This is why we voluntarily self-quarantine. But for the vast majority of people it will be a rather uncomfortable cold.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 16, 2020, 11:54:34 PM

For the Patriotic, Thank you for your service when its convenient with words and not action crowd...the VA is has had 100 tests for over 9 million Veterans. Half of them are over 65. And first deaths have been reported.

The U.S. had the materials to replicate previously recommended WHO tests (recommended tests began in January). .....at the very least until developing its own test.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/03/16/cdc-who-coronavirus-tests/%3foutputType=amp

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on March 16, 2020, 11:56:51 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 16, 2020, 11:33:40 PM

So many hot takes here. I cent believe some of you are willing to justify letting people die so you can make a few bucks.  Have you no compassion or decency? 

Disgusting reasoning and abhorrent suggestions.

I'm ashamed to be reading things like this from fellow graduates.

"Make a few bucks".  Again, the hypothetical posed is businesses declaring bankruptcy, permanently cutting jobs, shutting down completely.  Not sacrificing a few days of profits.  You can ride out a 2 week quarantine/shut down/etc... 4-6 weeks of closing basically everything will ruin a lot of businesses. 

The Ford Pinto was a cost benefit analysis of lawsuits versus profits.  Not lawsuit/human costs versus Ford going out of business.

I feel like there are two parallel conversations.  Those arguing the alternative to a 4-6 week shutdown are being lumped in with a lesser level of closing, WFH, etc...

I can tell you right now, from conversations with friends of mine in manufacturing and management, there are companies that if they can't deliver cause they are closed for longer than 2 weeks, their global customers will go elsewhere and they wont come hopping back once they reopen. My buddy is helping to reorg a business that makes electrical components, they were on the verge of bankruptcy cause their parts were from China and tariffs hit them hard, but dug themselves out.  If they shut down and cant ship by the first week in April, they are toast. 500 factory and office jobs, and thats after layoffs and hour cutbacks.

Again, none of this is easy, and its hard questions.  But its not just "save lives or make some cash", some of the more extreme prevention scenarios will lead to many businesses not surviving.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Keithtisbarf on March 17, 2020, 12:22:22 AM

Many workplaces that need to have workers on premises are using an A and B team model, rotating between teams to allow for social distancing and continue work flow.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 17, 2020, 05:24:55 AM

Quote from: Jockey on March 16, 2020, 10:01:21 PM

Why am I not surprised?

Because the Pandemic Response Team was shut down where this most likely would have proceeded with.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 17, 2020, 05:37:51 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 16, 2020, 09:39:32 PM

https://twitter.com/MC_of_A/status/1239739685490102278?s=20

Shut down the quarantine. Get back to work. Open everything up.

Let's mentally prepare now.

More support that lockdown saves lives.

 https://www.wsj.com/articles/lockdown-of-recovering-italian-town-shows-effectiveness-of-early-action-11584391837?mod=e2fb (https://www.wsj.com/articles/lockdown-of-recovering-italian-town-shows-effectiveness-of-early-action-11584391837?mod=e2fb)

Also note feb 19 first case.  That person has thankfully survived treatment, but was just discharged from the hospital per the article.  Holy crap. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 17, 2020, 05:44:46 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 16, 2020, 09:46:59 PM

In January, German Scientists developed the first Coronavirus test. Sixty countries said yes, we will use your test, or, at the very least, we will use your test until we develop our own. U.S. Administration said no. People can discuss Xenophobia, Provincial attitudes, and so on...but this right here is beyond the comprehension of many.

https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article206555143/Corona-USA-will-Zugriff-auf-deutsche-Impfstoff-Firma.html

unless this "test" did anything for them that we already didn't have ourselves, this is just another set up to take a political shot at the USA.  if this would have been even a fraction of an issue, the press would be bludgeoning him over the head with it 24/7 like that did with his 2 scoops of ice cream.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 17, 2020, 05:50:26 AM

NO THE WHITEHOUSE DID'NT DISSOLVE IT"S PANDEMIC RESPONSE OFFICE

  for all of you partisans so quick to jump on just about anything you hear from chris hayes or raychel madow, well there's a reasson our media is going down the chitter.  they're supposed to HELP us especially in moments as such, but would rather strengthen chinas opinion-sad

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/16/no-white-house-didnt-dissolve-its-pandemic-response-office/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 17, 2020, 05:51:18 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 17, 2020, 05:44:46 AM

unless this "test" did anything for them that we already didn't have ourselves, this is just another set up to take a political shot at the USA.  if this would have been even a fraction of an issue, the press would be bludgeoning him over the head with it 24/7 like that did with his 2 scoops of ice cream.

Rocket in a world where symptoms range from heavy cold to one month in the hospital we need full scale testing like a month ago.  Otherwise we will never know who is safe, who needs to quarantine or for how long, etc.  this decision contributed to where we are.

Pointing out policy inaction is not a political shot.  Unless your Xi.  Then it’s punishable. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: CreightonWarrior on March 17, 2020, 06:00:02 AM

I work for a top 100 bank performing a critical function and was told I was not allowed to come in and WFH to protect my health. The real winner in all this is my pup.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 17, 2020, 06:11:02 AM

Data to support how woefully behind we are on testing.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/17/us/coronavirus-testing-data.html?smtyp=cur&smid=fb-nytimes&fbclid=IwAR3k0pAyZZxz4wwjvkB7BytYb_FZ5Rjgx0VWFnXLo4UnObMSuDycsjOBbnc (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/17/us/coronavirus-testing-data.html?smtyp=cur&smid=fb-nytimes&fbclid=IwAR3k0pAyZZxz4wwjvkB7BytYb_FZ5Rjgx0VWFnXLo4UnObMSuDycsjOBbnc)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 17, 2020, 06:41:47 AM

I'm going to be super callous and provocative in this post for the purpose of advancing the conversation on risk/reward of policy making but please note I'm not advocating a particular approach nor am I a monster(I don't think).

If I told you the max deaths from this outbreak in the US were 80,000....would you still go lock down if it could prevent half of them?

If I told you the max deaths from this outbreak in the US were 800,000....would you still go lock down if it could prevent half of them?

If I told you the max deaths from this outbreak in the US were 2 Million....would you still go lock down if you could prevent 75% of them(500,000 dead instead)

How do you balance that against putting over 50% of the countries jobs at risk and depriving its children of at least 3 months of education all while drawing on yet more debt to the national treasury to float the economy. Meanwhile, China is the first to recover from this and is already tooling up to take over more of the global economy.

We let people die every day for entirely preventable reasons because as a society we've either willfully or ignorantly decided it would be too difficult to bother saving them. Coronavirus is that calculus on a severe time compression.

There are no easy answers as a society, the answers are only easy when an individual looks at it with their own perspective and lens.....trying to balance the needs of an extremely diverse and large populace is f#cking impossible so how would you do it?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 17, 2020, 07:07:53 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 17, 2020, 06:41:47 AM

I'm going to be super callous and provocative in this post for the purpose of advancing the conversation on risk/reward of policy making but please note I'm not advocating a particular approach nor am I a monster(I don't think).

If I told you the max deaths from this outbreak in the US were 80,000....would you still go lock down if it could prevent half of them?

If I told you the max deaths from this outbreak in the US were 800,000....would you still go lock down if it could prevent half of them?

If I told you the max deaths from this outbreak in the US were 2 Million....would you still go lock down if you could prevent 75% of them(500,000 dead instead)

How do you balance that against putting over 50% of the countries jobs at risk and depriving its children of at least 3 months of education all while drawing on yet more debt to the national treasury to float the economy. Meanwhile, China is the first to recover from this and is already tooling up to take over more of the global economy.

We let people die every day for entirely preventable reasons because as a society we've either willfully or ignorantly decided it would be too difficult to bother saving them. Coronavirus is that calculus on a severe time compression.

There are no easy answers as a society, the answers are only easy when an individual looks at it with their own perspective and lens.....trying to balance the needs of an extremely diverse and large populace is f#cking impossible so how would you do it?

Eng a gnarly question but only likely answerable after the fact. 

We are day by day now.  Right now, we need to stop & find out who has this to 1. protect the vulnerable and 2. ease the impending wave on the healthcare system and 3. develop a plan for what we do once we find out how big the problem is.  We are in situational analysis mode -- so the questions of normalcy are likely weeks out in my mind. 

Truthfully pretending there wont be a massive economic impact going the 'keep the economy spending' route is naive (in my opinion).  Fear and uncertainty are terrible things for consumer confidence and worker productivity.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 17, 2020, 07:59:31 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 16, 2020, 10:45:45 PM

Are letting masses of people  - even apparently less valuable older people - die or long-term economic depression really the only options here?

Also, do you think the economy would survive unscathed a collapse of the health care system that likely would result from your option 2?

Shutting things down until the end of next week isn't going to destroy the economy. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 17, 2020, 08:01:20 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 17, 2020, 06:41:47 AM

I'm going to be super callous and provocative in this post for the purpose of advancing the conversation on risk/reward of policy making but please note I'm not advocating a particular approach nor am I a monster(I don't think).

If I told you the max deaths from this outbreak in the US were 80,000....would you still go lock down if it could prevent half of them?

If I told you the max deaths from this outbreak in the US were 800,000....would you still go lock down if it could prevent half of them?

If I told you the max deaths from this outbreak in the US were 2 Million....would you still go lock down if you could prevent 75% of them(500,000 dead instead)

How do you balance that against putting over 50% of the countries jobs at risk and depriving its children of at least 3 months of education all while drawing on yet more debt to the national treasury to float the economy. Meanwhile, China is the first to recover from this and is already tooling up to take over more of the global economy.

We let people die every day for entirely preventable reasons because as a society we've either willfully or ignorantly decided it would be too difficult to bother saving them. Coronavirus is that calculus on a severe time compression.

There are no easy answers as a society, the answers are only easy when an individual looks at it with their own perspective and lens.....trying to balance the needs of an extremely diverse and large populace is f#cking impossible so how would you do it?

Good post

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on March 17, 2020, 08:05:09 AM

Yep.  People say "you can't put a price on human life", but in reality, it's done all the time.  Is it worth a trillion dollars to save one life?  How about five dollars?

The question is where do we want to stick the pin?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Archies Bat on March 17, 2020, 08:09:20 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 17, 2020, 07:59:31 AM

Shutting things down until the end of next week isn't going to destroy the economy.

I think it is a mainly moot point anyway.  My assessment is >50% of Americans have decided to follow the guidance and stay predominantly at home for the next several weeks.  And a large chunk of those who don't stay at home are likely to still catch the virus and be out of economic circulation for a time while symptomatic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 17, 2020, 08:21:34 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 17, 2020, 05:50:26 AM

NO THE WHITEHOUSE DID'NT DISSOLVE IT"S PANDEMIC RESPONSE OFFICE

  for all of you partisans so quick to jump on just about anything you hear from chris hayes or raychel madow, well there's a reasson our media is going down the chitter.  they're supposed to HELP us especially in moments as such, but would rather strengthen chinas opinion-sad

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/16/no-white-house-didnt-dissolve-its-pandemic-response-office/

You are a couple pages behind, doc. Dr. Fauci himself verified that they did indeed eliminate this office. And the last I checked, Fauci isn't channeling Matthews or Maddow....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 17, 2020, 08:24:14 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 17, 2020, 07:59:31 AM

Shutting things down until the end of next week isn't going to destroy the economy.

Tell that to the people here suggesting that it's one of two possible outcomes.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on March 17, 2020, 08:25:52 AM

I know that my family is generally far more hunkered down than many. Unfortunately, my wife had to make a road trip this past weekend to move one daughter out of her dorm, and left this morning to move the other daughter out of her dorm. Aside from that -- and my work -- we're pretty well locked down.

I am still going to work at the office. It is a relatively small office and we're all keeping a distance. We work very closely supporting the long-term care industry so this is a huge issue for our clients. While we're not technically in the health care industry, many providers are relying very heavily on us as we navigate this crisis. A couple of my coworkers are working from home (one who was feeling a little ill last week but seems fine and one who is immunocompromised). I suspect at some point I will WFH, but right now at my house I have three college students, one HS student and my college graduate son who works in the banking industry all working in my house. Hell, the "office" at home is almost as populous as the office where I work.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 17, 2020, 08:27:17 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 17, 2020, 05:44:46 AM

unless this "test" did anything for them that we already didn't have ourselves, this is just another set up to take a political shot at the USA.  if this would have been even a fraction of an issue, the press would be bludgeoning him over the head with it 24/7 like that did with his 2 scoops of ice cream.

Nah...taking a political shot would be pointing out that Jared Kushner’s brother Josh is one of the founders of Oscar Health...a company that announced Coronavirus testing development this week.

Report after report every day for quite some time has pointed out that the United States could have obtained other WHO approved credible tests and/or had the materials to replicate it. Instead the choice was to develop a more complex test that has failed repeatedly, costing lots of time. The United States was also very slow to work with the private sector to develop tests. The Roche announcement for example was way way way too late.

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1239879833116725249

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 17, 2020, 08:27:58 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 17, 2020, 08:21:34 AM

You are a couple pages behind, doc. Dr. Fauci himself verified that they did indeed eliminate this office. And the last I checked, Fauci isn't channeling Matthews or Maddow....

And there's a story this morning where this office as part of the the Obama transition team tried to run a pandemic scenario to teach the new Trump team and it was completely ignored.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 17, 2020, 08:35:04 AM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 17, 2020, 08:25:52 AM

I know that my family is generally far more hunkered down than many. Unfortunately, my wife had to make a road trip this past weekend to move one daughter out of her dorm, and left this morning to move the other daughter out of her dorm. Aside from that -- and my work -- we're pretty well locked down.

I am still going to work at the office. It is a relatively small office and we're all keeping a distance. We work very closely supporting the long-term care industry so this is a huge issue for our clients. While we're not technically in the health care industry, many providers are relying very heavily on us as we navigate this crisis. A couple of my coworkers are working from home (one who was feeling a little ill last week but seems fine and one who is immunocompromised). I suspect at some point I will WFH, but right now at my house I have three college students, one HS student and my college graduate son who works in the banking industry all working in my house. Hell, the "office" at home is almost as populous as the office where I work.

My case also.
My wife just returned from moving the kid out of the dorm.  My wife and younger daughter are off since schools are closed at least until April 1, and the older daughter will be doing the university online learning.

I am still going to the office.  There are a total of 32 people spread out in a very large building and 8 of the people are on 2nd & 3rd shift. 
I have my own office (no cube farm) as does the other 6 office people, so it's still relatively quiet even on a busy day.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 17, 2020, 08:36:29 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 16, 2020, 11:33:40 PM

So many hot takes here. I cent believe some of you are willing to justify letting people die so you can make a few bucks.  Have you no compassion or decency? 

Disgusting reasoning and abhorrent suggestions.

I'm ashamed to be reading things like this from fellow graduates.

I think you're misunderstanding why people have concerns over the economic impacts of a mass lockdown. Think about all the people living paycheck to paycheck right now who would likely end up missing work. What happens to them if the lockdown goes on for 2 months? What is the ripple effect going forward for the businesses they work for? How will their children eat?

It seems reasonable that a lockdown could results in a large increase in homelessness, bankruptcies, even suicides. If you knew that 5-10 people would lose their jobs and end up homeless for every life you saved with the lockdown, wouldn't that make the choice to implement a mass lockdown pretty hard?

Someone also posted a link about divorce rates going up in China recently. That certainly affects people's lives and well-being. Add into all this the dollars you referenced earlier, and what you might see are businesses closing, job openings becoming more scare, retirees struggling to pay their bills or needing to find an additional source of income, older workers not being able to retire as planned. The economic impacts carry a massive social impact as well. To choose what could potentially be 10,000 lives over the livelihood of likely millions or tens of millions isn't always such a straightforward decision.

It seems certain that more lives will be harmed than lost in this crisis. Balancing the final outcome is incredibly difficult.

Edit - I'll add to this too that there haven't been very many deaths globally from this. I know there is concern that the US will be hit harder than other countries due to our delayed response, but even in Italy, they have "only" had 2,100 deaths. To me, that makes the decision even harder. And the ratios of those who are impacted financially vs. potential deaths could easily be greater than 1,000:1.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on March 17, 2020, 08:37:02 AM

Just some random question...

For folks who catch COVID-19 and remain asymptotic, or have very mild symptoms, but are never tested, will a future test be available from a healthcare professional to say...yeah you had it, who knows when...but ya had it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 17, 2020, 08:37:28 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 17, 2020, 06:41:47 AM

I'm going to be super callous and provocative in this post for the purpose of advancing the conversation on risk/reward of policy making but please note I'm not advocating a particular approach nor am I a monster(I don't think).

If I told you the max deaths from this outbreak in the US were 80,000....would you still go lock down if it could prevent half of them?

If I told you the max deaths from this outbreak in the US were 800,000....would you still go lock down if it could prevent half of them?

If I told you the max deaths from this outbreak in the US were 2 Million....would you still go lock down if you could prevent 75% of them(500,000 dead instead)

How do you balance that against putting over 50% of the countries jobs at risk and depriving its children of at least 3 months of education all while drawing on yet more debt to the national treasury to float the economy. Meanwhile, China is the first to recover from this and is already tooling up to take over more of the global economy.

We let people die every day for entirely preventable reasons because as a society we've either willfully or ignorantly decided it would be too difficult to bother saving them. Coronavirus is that calculus on a severe time compression.

There are no easy answers as a society, the answers are only easy when an individual looks at it with their own perspective and lens.....trying to balance the needs of an extremely diverse and large populace is f#cking impossible so how would you do it?

Very solid post.

Obviously, we don't know up front what the numbers will be; the only thing we do know is that some people are gonna did no matter what we do.

In between some and the theoretical none, I believe it is our responsibility as a society to use the resources we have to take reasonable steps to keep the number as low as we can. And in that vein, we have seen that total or near-total shutdowns in places like China and Italy have gone a long way toward flattening the curve. But despite the fact that we have the benefit of their experience, we are still inching along with a patchwork of help measures. IMHO the time is quickly passing for us to benefit from an Italy-style shutdown. But if we do it quickly, we may still be able to flatten the numbers without laying waste to the economy. If we don't - if we keep up with this incremental creep of half-measures - we may kill lots of people and trash the economy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on March 17, 2020, 08:39:35 AM

Downtown MKE was a ghost town this morning. Anecdotal, but I'm taking it as a good sign that companies are listening and having people work remotely.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 17, 2020, 08:46:38 AM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 17, 2020, 08:36:29 AM

If you knew that 5-10 people would lose their jobs and end up homeless for every life you saved with the lockdown, wouldn't that make the choice to implement a mass lockdown pretty hard?

IF we knew that, yes it could very likely change the calculus. Unfortunately, we are working with projections, possibilities, educated guesses. The economies and socioeconomic demographics in China and Italy are very different from those in the US, so while we can learn a little from their jobless/homeless/divorce numbers, we have to take it with a big grain of salt.

It sure would have been nice if the pandemic response office had been around the last two years to give us some structured modeling to use based on the US economy and social structure, so we didn't have to make these projections in the dark.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 17, 2020, 08:51:40 AM

The lockdown won't go on for two months.  My guess is that by the end of next week, people are going to gradually do what they normally do.  And in four weeks or so, even the 50+ gathering will be largely ignored.

This is all about "flattening the curve" for the next ten days.  Preventing the spike that Italy and others saw.

A lot of people are going to die from this.  But even then those stories will be on the back burner as life ramps up again.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 17, 2020, 08:54:34 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 17, 2020, 06:41:47 AM

I'm going to be super callous and provocative in this post for the purpose of advancing the conversation on risk/reward of policy making but please note I'm not advocating a particular approach nor am I a monster(I don't think).

If I told you the max deaths from this outbreak in the US were 80,000....would you still go lock down if it could prevent half of them?

If I told you the max deaths from this outbreak in the US were 800,000....would you still go lock down if it could prevent half of them?

If I told you the max deaths from this outbreak in the US were 2 Million....would you still go lock down if you could prevent 75% of them(500,000 dead instead)

How do you balance that against putting over 50% of the countries jobs at risk and depriving its children of at least 3 months of education all while drawing on yet more debt to the national treasury to float the economy. Meanwhile, China is the first to recover from this and is already tooling up to take over more of the global economy.

We let people die every day for entirely preventable reasons because as a society we've either willfully or ignorantly decided it would be too difficult to bother saving them. Coronavirus is that calculus on a severe time compression.

There are no easy answers as a society, the answers are only easy when an individual looks at it with their own perspective and lens.....trying to balance the needs of an extremely diverse and large populace is f#cking impossible so how would you do it?

I think you missed the most likely scenarios here, though. What if the max deaths is really only 2,000 or 4,000? They didn't even have 4,000 deaths in Hubei. So really, we may need to be thinking more along the lines of:

- What ratio of bankruptcies to lives saved are you willing to accept? Is 25:1 acceptable? Is 100:1 the cutoff?
- How many business closures are we willing to risk? Would 1,000 be OK? Would we balk at 15,000?
- How many new homeless can we accept? Is 5,000 too many? What if it were 20,000?

Would these things be acceptable tradeoffs to save 1,000 lives? What if that number is only 200?

It's not as simple as we want it to be. That's for sure.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 17, 2020, 08:57:31 AM

Quote from: keefe on March 16, 2020, 11:40:36 PM

Anyone entering the Seattle VA is automatically tested.

Tested or screened?

Because testing everyone who entered that hospital would be extremely irresponsible and not in accordance with guidelines.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 17, 2020, 08:58:29 AM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 17, 2020, 08:36:29 AM

I think you're misunderstanding why people have concerns over the economic impacts of a mass lockdown. Think about all the people living paycheck to paycheck right now who would likely end up missing work. What happens to them if the lockdown goes on for 2 months? What is the ripple effect going forward for the businesses they work for? How will their children eat?

It seems reasonable that a lockdown could results in a large increase in homelessness, bankruptcies, even suicides. If you knew that 5-10 people would lose their jobs and end up homeless for every life you saved with the lockdown, wouldn't that make the choice to implement a mass lockdown pretty hard?

Someone also posted a link about divorce rates going up in China recently. That certainly affects people's lives and well-being. Add into all this the dollars you referenced earlier, and what you might see are businesses closing, job openings becoming more scare, retirees struggling to pay their bills or needing to find an additional source of income, older workers not being able to retire as planned. The economic impacts carry a massive social impact as well. To choose what could potentially be 10,000 lives over the livelihood of likely millions or tens of millions isn't always such a straightforward decision.

It seems certain that more lives will be harmed than lost in this crisis. Balancing the final outcome is incredibly difficult.

Edit - I'll add to this too that there haven't been very many deaths globally from this. I know there is concern that the US will be hit harder than other countries due to our delayed response, but even in Italy, they have "only" had 2,100 deaths. To me, that makes the decision even harder. And the ratios of those who are impacted financially vs. potential deaths could easily be greater than 1,000:1.

Exactly

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on March 17, 2020, 08:59:34 AM

Generational war over the virus.  Younger people views on virus will make it more difficult to contain.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-generational-war-is-brewing-over-coronavirus-11584437401


This is an interesting juxtaposition considering younger people tend to care more about the environment, social wellness, and equality but when it comes to this virus that is not the case.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 17, 2020, 09:00:04 AM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 17, 2020, 08:54:34 AM

I think you missed the most likely scenarios here, though. What if the max deaths is really only 2,000 or 4,000? They didn't even have 4,000 deaths in Hubei. So really, we may need to be thinking more along the lines of:

- What ratio of bankruptcies to lives saved are you willing to accept? Is 25:1 acceptable? Is 100:1 the cutoff?
- How many business closures are we willing to risk? Would 1,000 be OK? Would we balk at 15,000?
- How many new homeless can we accept? Is 5,000 too many? What if it were 20,000?

Would these things be acceptable tradeoffs to save 1,000 lives? What if that number is only 200?

It's not as simple as we want it to be. That's for sure.

Careful, Hubei province instituted the most oppressive and agressive methods to suppress spread and control people. That is why there were only 80,000 cases in a population of close to 60M. If it was allowed to spread through the entire population, 30-40M would likely have been infected, and 1.5M dead.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 17, 2020, 09:02:01 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on March 17, 2020, 08:59:34 AM

Generational war over the virus.  Younger people views on virus will make it more difficult to contain.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-generational-war-is-brewing-over-coronavirus-11584437401


This is an interesting juxtaposition considering younger people tend to care more about the environment, social wellness, and equality but when it comes to this virus that is not the case.

Can't read the article, so unsure if mentioned, but how are boomers doing with the virus? Staying home?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 17, 2020, 09:04:44 AM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 17, 2020, 08:54:34 AM

I think you missed the most likely scenarios here, though. What if the max deaths is really only 2,000 or 4,000? They didn't even have 4,000 deaths in Hubei. So really, we may need to be thinking more along the lines of:

Hubei was also locked down once it was proven this was out of control.  So really there is no model yet of what out of control looks like -- other than countries heading in that direction and then trying to lock down. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 17, 2020, 09:06:56 AM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 17, 2020, 08:36:29 AM

I think you're misunderstanding why people have concerns over the economic impacts of a mass lockdown. Think about all the people living paycheck to paycheck right now who would likely end up missing work. What happens to them if the lockdown goes on for 2 months? What is the ripple effect going forward for the businesses they work for? How will their children eat?

It seems reasonable that a lockdown could results in a large increase in homelessness, bankruptcies, even suicides. If you knew that 5-10 people would lose their jobs and end up homeless for every life you saved with the lockdown, wouldn't that make the choice to implement a mass lockdown pretty hard?

Someone also posted a link about divorce rates going up in China recently. That certainly affects people's lives and well-being. Add into all this the dollars you referenced earlier, and what you might see are businesses closing, job openings becoming more scare, retirees struggling to pay their bills or needing to find an additional source of income, older workers not being able to retire as planned. The economic impacts carry a massive social impact as well. To choose what could potentially be 10,000 lives over the livelihood of likely millions or tens of millions isn't always such a straightforward decision.

It seems certain that more lives will be harmed than lost in this crisis. Balancing the final outcome is incredibly difficult.

Edit - I'll add to this too that there haven't been very many deaths globally from this. I know there is concern that the US will be hit harder than other countries due to our delayed response, but even in Italy, they have "only" had 2,100 deaths. To me, that makes the decision even harder. And the ratios of those who are impacted financially vs. potential deaths could easily be greater than 1,000:1.

I've done all of this thinking, and I still come to the same conclusion.  This is why we have a Federal Government.  Financial problems can be solved, people are resilient and will bounce back.  Our small business is already taking massive losses, but we will figure things out.  We've been running for 20 years.  We can adapt. 

There will obviously be debt forgiveness, rent and mortgage pauses for people and businesses, and many things to help keep the US afloat.  If we do nothing, then yes, things will be awful economically for a very long time.  But you have to understand that banks don't want empty buildings that no one is paying rent on.  The same goes for landlords.  I'm sure you understand all of this as well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 17, 2020, 09:07:54 AM

Quote from: reinko on March 17, 2020, 08:37:02 AM

Just some random question...

For folks who catch COVID-19 and remain asymptotic, or have very mild symptoms, but are never tested, will a future test be available from a healthcare professional to say...yeah you had it, who knows when...but ya had it.

There should be a test they can run to determine if you have antibodies for COVID-19, and I believe that it is a fairly easy test to run.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on March 17, 2020, 09:08:42 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 17, 2020, 08:51:40 AM

The lockdown won't go on for two months.  My guess is that by the end of next week, people are going to gradually do what they normally do.  And in four weeks or so, even the 50+ gathering will be largely ignored.

This is all about "flattening the curve" for the next ten days.  Preventing the spike that Italy and others saw.

A lot of people are going to die from this.  But even then those stories will be on the back burner as life ramps up again.

But thats not what Jesu originally stated.  He said 4-6 weeks as I saw proposed on various places.  Thats what I and others were reacting to and were chastized for.  Lockdown until EOW next week is completely fine and something most people and businesses can comfortably ride out, nobody is disputing that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 17, 2020, 09:13:27 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on March 17, 2020, 08:59:34 AM

Generational war over the virus.  Younger people views on virus will make it more difficult to contain.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-generational-war-is-brewing-over-coronavirus-11584437401


This is an interesting juxtaposition considering younger people tend to care more about the environment, social wellness, and equality but when it comes to this virus that is not the case.

It's behind a paywall, but most of the people I have come into contact with that are over 60 are not taking it seriously, either.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on March 17, 2020, 09:19:11 AM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 17, 2020, 08:54:34 AM

I think you missed the most likely scenarios here, though. What if the max deaths is really only 2,000 or 4,000? They didn't even have 4,000 deaths in Hubei. So really, we may need to be thinking more along the lines of:

- What ratio of bankruptcies to lives saved are you willing to accept? Is 25:1 acceptable? Is 100:1 the cutoff?
- How many business closures are we willing to risk? Would 1,000 be OK? Would we balk at 15,000?
- How many new homeless can we accept? Is 5,000 too many? What if it were 20,000?

Would these things be acceptable tradeoffs to save 1,000 lives? What if that number is only 200?

It's not as simple as we want it to be. That's for sure.

The amount of financial damage caused by world actions may far exceed actual health damages.  We will not know if true for a long time, but the post mortem on world response and if it was worth it will be one for generations to study.  The term At Any Cost May be forever rendered obsolete depending on how this resolves itself.  It also may become the rallying point for all future events.  The cost benefit analysis will be of great debate.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on March 17, 2020, 09:24:12 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 17, 2020, 09:13:27 AM

It's behind a paywall, but most of the people I have come into contact with that are over 60 are not taking it seriously, either.

The article mentions scientists and govt officials frustration with younger people feeling immune and ignoring practices that will help to flatten the curve.  Middle age and older generations may be skeptical, but more prone to doing what is asked. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 17, 2020, 09:35:20 AM

Interesting conversation. Thanks to mu03, ski and others.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 17, 2020, 09:36:32 AM

For those advocating a no-lockdown scenario in the US: how is business doing right now?

At the moment, there are only a very small number of isolated lockdowns in place (the bay area). Other than that, we only have common sense recommendations and limitations in place (social distancing, avoiding large gatherings and such). Despite that, from what I see, business seems to be suffering greatly anyhow.

If you think a short–term (two or three week) lockdown would ruin the economy, what would you think about another six months of these continued half measures?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 17, 2020, 09:47:02 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 17, 2020, 09:36:32 AM

For those advocating a no-lockdown scenario in the US: how is business doing right now?

At the moment, there are only a very small number of isolated lockdowns in place (the bay area). Other than that, we only have common sense recommendations and limitations in place (social distancing, avoiding large gatherings and such). Despite that, from what I see, business seems to be suffering greatly anyhow.

If you think a short–term (two or three week) lockdown would ruin the economy, what would you think about another six months of these continued half measures?

New Rochelle, NY is in lockdown.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 17, 2020, 09:50:07 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 17, 2020, 09:47:02 AM

New Rochelle, NY is in lockdown.

Correct. I said “a very small number.” I could have used that as my example, but I chose the Bay Area because it just started. In any event, the lockdowns are still very isolated, the exceptions to the rule, and the economy is still struggling.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on March 17, 2020, 09:56:15 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 17, 2020, 09:47:02 AM

New Rochelle, NY is in lockdown.

Probably contracted it on a strange, erotic journey from Milan to Minsk.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 17, 2020, 09:58:06 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on March 17, 2020, 09:24:12 AM

The article mentions scientists and govt officials frustration with younger people feeling immune and ignoring practices that will help to flatten the curve.  Middle age and older generations may be skeptical, but more prone to doing what is asked.

Anecdotally, it seems like younger and older people aren't taking this as seriously as gen x-ers and late millenials.

I also think that people are willing to shut down for a max of two weeks before they say f it, im getting with my life, consequences be damned.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 17, 2020, 10:01:25 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 17, 2020, 08:46:38 AM

IF we knew that, yes it could very likely change the calculus. Unfortunately, we are working with projections, possibilities, educated guesses. The economies and socioeconomic demographics in China and Italy are very different from those in the US, so while we can learn a little from their jobless/homeless/divorce numbers, we have to take it with a big grain of salt.

It sure would have been nice if the pandemic response office had been around the last two years to give us some structured modeling to use based on the US economy and social structure, so we didn't have to make these projections in the dark.

A couple things here.

Yes, in hindsight it would be better if we had people working on this every day before the crisis hit. No doubt. However, those responsibilities didn't simply disappear. They were rolled into another group working on similar situations. So people were working on this the years and months leading up to today. Was this their top priority? Were they the best people for this job? Who knows. Probably not, but we don't know.

Regardless of who was working on this in the past and how it was prioritized, it is certainly the top priority for many people now. I've got to think that federal and local offices have been attempting to account for a broad range of risks/rewards for all potential plans. I assume that homelessness, food insecurity, and bankruptcy have all been discussed by leaders making the decisions to close schools and shut down large gatherings. This likely plays a big role in the lack of speed in decision making.

Look at other countries' responses. Do you think they have pandemic response teams? I would think many do. Most other countries were still largely unprepared for this. We can debate forever who has had better or worse responses, but the point remains that even with teams dedicated to pandemic preparedness, the responses and speed in decision-making have varied widely and are typically seen as inadequate.

The fact remains that we do not have a single dedicated pandemic team. But we do have people working on this now. Very smart people with the best of intentions. They are accounting for things the average person would never even consider in this scenario. The decisions being made right now carry a lot of weight. And every decision has a tradeoff. Keeping that in mind, we all need to be more thoughtful when reacting to decisions that are being made.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 17, 2020, 10:10:50 AM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 17, 2020, 10:01:25 AM

The decisions being made right now carry a lot of weight. And every decision has a tradeoff. Keeping that in mind, we all need to be more thoughtful when reacting to decisions that are being made.

On this, we are in agreement. I have said from early on that our best course of action as individual citizens is to  follow CDC's guidance, whether we agree with it or not. I would add that we should follow guidance of state and local officials and health departments, since they are most in touch with local conditions.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 17, 2020, 10:18:06 AM

Whatever state you want to call it we are in some sort of lockdown nationally and it is impacting at least 50% of our economy directly and at least another 20% indirectly. If everything stays the same how long can we sustain this stance without irreparably harming our economy and/or the futures of millions of Americans? How do you balance the dozens of child that will be harmed by the current state of affairs with the handful of lives that will be lost as a result of going back to the status quo?

If I'm being really, really honest? I maintain the current status quo until the end of next week while simultaneously initiating a plan to rapidly expand hospital capacity. I then start slowly opening things back up until by the end of April almost all restrictions are off and maybe wait until mid-May for mass gatherings. We want the disease to spread but slowly aka flattening the curve but the peak of the curve can be changed by increasing capacity as well. Buy time for capacity then go nuts essentially.

Italy scared the bejesus out of everyone, understandably but they seem to be a worst case scenario as the result a bunch of factors:
-high average age
-higher than average comorbides
-a capacity gap
-a high population density
-a high tourism element

Not thar similar things can't happen else where but I think the thing people lose sight of is that the majority of the fatalities are due to a lack of intervention. The disease is survivable even in the highest risk population if we have available intervention. So really there are two curves we should be talking about, the incident curve and the capacity curve, as long as the capacity curve increases at a rate the same or better than the incident curve we are doing what we can.

What I'm having trouble rationalizing is how much national effort we put into avoiding Coronavirus deaths that we don't put into avoiding deaths of flu, or cancer, or car accidents, or overdoses, or suicides. I'm not trying to sound like I don't care, because I do, but at some point we have to have a frank conversation about how much "effort" is too much effort.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on March 17, 2020, 10:24:04 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 17, 2020, 08:51:40 AM

The lockdown won't go on for two months.  My guess is that by the end of next week, people are going to gradually do what they normally do.  And in four weeks or so, even the 50+ gathering will be largely ignored.

This is all about "flattening the curve" for the next ten days.  Preventing the spike that Italy and others saw.

A lot of people are going to die from this.  But even then those stories will be on the back burner as life ramps up again.

This exactly, the third option is about containment of hot spots to flatten the curve.  Lessen the burden on health care at one time by extending/delaying the impact to later. Unlike flu where there are known vaccines and treatments like Tamiflu to contain, this is new and was unknown really just a few weeks ago (the major reasons flu is less fatal is).  Hoping warmer weather can kill or stomp down indoor social interaction. Hoping vaccines prove successful in trial and treatments work as this evolves. And let's be honest, let's hope this has been out there for a while as that means that there are more people who are immune and not passing this on (or who can catch it).

This effort is about the Fall and trying to make sure this thing has run its course, treatments evolve to prevent this from roaring back. But, right now, containment of this is the strategy (no need to lockdown everywhere). And prior to Easter/Passover is the government's goal to slow this down significantly when young and old will gather together...as people will do no matter.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 17, 2020, 10:25:57 AM

Quote from: keefe on March 16, 2020, 11:40:36 PM

Anyone entering the Seattle VA is automatically tested.

Hmm...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/03/10/coronavirus-spread-veterans-va-screening-visitor-restrictions/5006410002/

https://www.stripes.com/news/veterans/va-up-to-at-least-11-patients-who-tested-positive-for-coronavirus-1.622070#correction

Something isn't adding up here....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on March 17, 2020, 10:35:11 AM

Granted, I'm not putting a ton of stock in what politicians are saying, but Cuomo just said that they expect this to peak in NY in 45 days.

Yiiikes.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 17, 2020, 10:38:54 AM

Quote from: MUfan12 on March 17, 2020, 10:35:11 AM

Granted, I'm not putting a ton of stock in what politicians are saying, but Cuomo just said that they expect this to peak in NY in 45 days.

Yiiikes.

That would suggest though that they "flatten the curve," I'm really starting to hate that phrase. How about broaden the distribution. If that wasn't the case we may see a peak in 15-20 days, but it would be ugly. It actually may be better if the peak is say 60+ days away, that would imply a gradual slope to the peak.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 17, 2020, 10:48:53 AM

Quote from: MUfan12 on March 17, 2020, 10:35:11 AM

Granted, I'm not putting a ton of stock in what politicians are saying, but Cuomo just said that they expect this to peak in NY in 45 days.

Yiiikes.

What is this possibly based on? That seems like true fearmongering

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: keefe on March 17, 2020, 10:49:09 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 17, 2020, 08:57:31 AM

Tested or screened?

Because testing everyone who entered that hospital would be extremely irresponsible and not in accordance with guidelines.

Fair point.

The Seattle VA has restricted access to the ER entry portal. They conduct a 100% screen of everyone, staff, patients, visitors, with testing for those exhibiting or stating symptoms of fever and respiratory issues.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on March 17, 2020, 10:50:06 AM

Does anyone know how having business interruption insurance plays into this?

Are you covered if you close down voluntarily? Or if you aren't closed down, but government mandates bring your sales to a standstill?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 17, 2020, 10:54:25 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 17, 2020, 09:58:06 AM

Anecdotally, it seems like younger and older people aren't taking this as seriously as gen x-ers and late millenials.

I also think that people are willing to shut down for a max of two weeks before they say f it, im getting with my life, consequences be damned.

Agreed and agreed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 17, 2020, 11:03:29 AM

One other thing I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around. What mechanism would have kept the virus out of the US until recently that we are behind Italy? And if Seattle has true full community spread, why didn't we see more deaths there and those deaths be more spread out. Not trying to be a truther here but trying to make sense of this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Archies Bat on March 17, 2020, 11:08:58 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 17, 2020, 11:03:29 AM

One other thing I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around. What mechanism would have kept the virus out of the US until recently that we are behind Italy? And if Seattle has true full community spread, why didn't we see more deaths there and those deaths be more spread out. Not trying to be a truther here but trying to make sense of this.

I'm not sure where I heard this, but due to fairly strict laws in Italy about buying things made in Italy, Chinese companies have bought numerous facilities in Italy and staff them predominately with Chinese workers.  The supposition was that the back and forth movement of these Chinese workers allowed spread to Italy faster.

Or that could some false story that spread around.  Take it for what it is worth.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 17, 2020, 11:15:15 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 17, 2020, 11:03:29 AM

One other thing I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around. What mechanism would have kept the virus out of the US until recently that we are behind Italy? And if Seattle has true full community spread, why didn't we see more deaths there and those deaths be more spread out. Not trying to be a truther here but trying to make sense of this.

1. Luck of where the initial seeding events occur. If the initial traveler is a resident, who goes home and has limited external travel, not as much initial spread. May buy you a week or two. If the traveler is a tourist, going to a bunch of sites with 100's or 1000's of people. Then you lost yourself some weeks. If our first infections were at say Disney World, we'd be a whole lot worse off right now.

2. Population age near initial seeding events.

3. The number of seeding events. Northern Italy, as a big tourist destination site, probably had multiple seeding events. That is what we had a week or two later due to internal travel.

I also still have trouble wrapping my head around the numbers. Too many unknowns. What are the true numbers of cases in these countries. The cruise ship, and Korea, suggest an actual death rate of 1%. So that means Italy like has over 200-400k cases right now, and the US has 10-15k cases.

We don't really know though because there are too many variables that can affect the fatality rate.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 17, 2020, 11:16:23 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on March 17, 2020, 09:24:12 AM

The article mentions scientists and govt officials frustration with younger people feeling immune and ignoring practices that will help to flatten the curve.  Middle age and older generations may be skeptical, but more prone to doing what is asked.

Florida closes all bars and nightclubs for the next 30 days. Basically because younger people were ignoring the social distancing advice.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 17, 2020, 11:19:09 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 17, 2020, 10:18:06 AM

What I'm having trouble rationalizing is how much national effort we put into avoiding Coronavirus deaths that we don't put into avoiding deaths of flu, or cancer, or car accidents, or overdoses, or suicides. I'm not trying to sound like I don't care, because I do, but at some point we have to have a frank conversation about how much "effort" is too much effort.

So, when you struggle with these rationalizations, do you weigh the costs of not making an "effort" to stop/slow COVID-19? .

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: BM1090 on March 17, 2020, 11:27:28 AM

Had to run into the office today to pick up a new computer. On a normal day, we have about 1,000 employees onsite. Today, I think there are about 10 of us here plus cleaning/service staff.

We are not required to work from home but have been encouraged to do so and it seems like people are responding the way you'd hope.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on March 17, 2020, 11:30:22 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on March 17, 2020, 11:16:23 AM

Florida closes all bars and nightclubs for the next 30 days. Basically because younger people were ignoring the social distancing advice.

But restaurants and beaches still wide open.  No idea what they are doing

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 17, 2020, 11:31:08 AM

Quote from: warriorchick on March 17, 2020, 10:50:06 AM

Does anyone know how having business interruption insurance plays into this?

Are you covered if you close down voluntarily? Or if you aren't closed down, but government mandates bring your sales to a standstill?

This was on another board by a small business owner. A single point, but others seem to think it was accurate.

Unfortunately the answer we’re able to give everyone at this point isn’t a good one. Basically every property insurance policy written in the entire country has an exclusion for Virus/Communicable disease. Business Interruption coverage, which is a form of property insurance, is something that’s on your policies, but the attached exclusion also excludes coverage for business interruption from a virus. I’m not aware of an insurance carrier that has ever offered to provide a separate policy for something like this, and frankly I have no idea how they would even price/underwrite coverage for something like this in such an unpredictable and incredibly rare circumstance. This virus exclusion endorsement, or something similar is on basically every property insurance policy written in the US, which has us establishing a very low expectation with our clients from a coverage perspective. We’re all really in the same boat together right now.


That said, as the broker, we also are not the claims department for the insurance company deciding whether or not a claim gets paid/approved or declined. Property insurance (which in insurance origins was designed simply as ‘fire’ insurance) was created for physical losses (fire, wind, collapse, lighting strikes, cars/planes driving into buildings, theft, etc.). In this case, everyone’s building/property is still standing and physically capable of operating. This is all a very unprecedented circumstance, and the situation seems to be pretty fluid with government and financial institutions still determining the best course of action. It’s possible as the situation evolves we may recommend submitting a claim to the insurance company for a more formal up or down from them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 17, 2020, 11:33:59 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on March 17, 2020, 11:30:22 AM

But restaurants and beaches still wide open.  No idea what they are doing

Ft Lauderdale and Miami Beaches are closed. Which really just drew the crowds to the nearby restaurants......

Restaurants are to be limited to 50% capacity as well.
Interesting question about what exactly defines a bar. Most bars serve food here. But they are very much bars. No one goes to the Square Grouper for food, though they may order wings or a fish sandwich. Can they stay open?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 17, 2020, 11:37:36 AM

Quote from: forgetful on March 17, 2020, 11:15:15 AM

1. Luck of where the initial seeding events occur. If the initial traveler is a resident, who goes home and has limited external travel, not as much initial spread. May buy you a week or two. If the traveler is a tourist, going to a bunch of sites with 100's or 1000's of people. Then you lost yourself some weeks. If our first infections were at say Disney World, we'd be a whole lot worse off right now.

2. Population age near initial seeding events.

3. The number of seeding events. Northern Italy, as a big tourist destination site, probably had multiple seeding events. That is what we had a week or two later due to internal travel.

I also still have trouble wrapping my head around the numbers. Too many unknowns. What are the true numbers of cases in these countries. The cruise ship, and Korea, suggest an actual death rate of 1%. So that means Italy like has over 200-400k cases right now, and the US has 10-15k cases.

We don't really know though because there are too many variables that can affect the fatality rate.

I think this is how the New Rochelle, NY one happened.  Some guy was super-carrier.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 17, 2020, 11:38:45 AM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 17, 2020, 08:36:29 AM

I think you're misunderstanding why people have concerns over the economic impacts of a mass lockdown. Think about all the people living paycheck to paycheck right now who would likely end up missing work. What happens to them if the lockdown goes on for 2 months? What is the ripple effect going forward for the businesses they work for? How will their children eat?

Apparently the richest country in the history of the world is out of options. Nothing can be done.

Although tax breaks for billionaires will be part of the solution somehow.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 17, 2020, 11:46:54 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on March 17, 2020, 11:16:23 AM

Florida closes all bars and nightclubs for the next 30 days. Basically because younger people were ignoring the social distancing advice.

Florida is the next Italy.  Mark my words.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 17, 2020, 11:49:03 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on March 17, 2020, 11:33:59 AM

Ft Lauderdale and Miami Beaches are closed. Which really just drew the crowds to the nearby restaurants......

Restaurants are to be limited to 50% capacity as well.
Interesting question about what exactly defines a bar. Most bars serve food here. But they are very much bars. No one goes to the Square Grouper for food, though they may order wings or a fish sandwich. Can they stay open?

I'm guessing a liquor license is what defines a bar.

This was Clearwater beach, yesterday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZamrmTMs6w

In case you have much faith in people to make good decisions.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 17, 2020, 11:59:30 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 17, 2020, 11:49:03 AM

I'm guessing a liquor license is what defines a bar.

This was Clearwater beach, yesterday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZamrmTMs6w

In case you have much faith in people to make good decisions.

This is why colleges and universities were so keen on getting their students out of their residence halls for a few weeks / the rest of the semester.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 17, 2020, 12:07:39 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 17, 2020, 11:19:09 AM

So, when you struggle with these rationalizations, do you weigh the costs of not making an "effort" to stop/slow COVID-19? .

Did I say no effort anywhere? Clearly some effort is required, the question is how much?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 17, 2020, 12:08:34 PM

Quote from: keefe on March 17, 2020, 10:49:09 AM

Fair point.

The Seattle VA has restricted access to the ER entry portal. They conduct a 100% screen of everyone, staff, patients, visitors, with testing for those exhibiting or stating symptoms of fever and respiratory issues.

Gotcha. Ya. That seems more in line with protocol.

So then you personally were not tested and you don't know if you did/didn't have it

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on March 17, 2020, 12:08:50 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 17, 2020, 11:37:36 AM

I think this is how the New Rochelle, NY one happened.  Some guy was super-carrier.

Here is his sad story and the chucklehead public responses. Synagogue (funeral, Bar Mitzvah, court  and hospitals). NY was late with their response and the public blame of the patient is ridiculous.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8097891/amp/Westchester-lawyers-wife-fears-people-blame-family-spreading-coronavirus.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 17, 2020, 12:17:12 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 17, 2020, 12:07:39 PM

Did I say no effort anywhere? Clearly some effort is required, the question is how much?

Trillion dollar question.  Problem is we don't have data.  And we won't have real data for weeks.  Our testing is behind, and we are just at the upswing of this.  We are about two weeks behind Italy.  I think once Americans see the carnage of what a full exhausted hospital and staff look like, they may take this a bit more seriously.  For most people, this still isn't real.  And it won't be real until people they know and love are infected or die.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 17, 2020, 12:19:30 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 17, 2020, 12:07:39 PM

Did I say no effort anywhere? Clearly some effort is required, the question is how much?

How about more than we've been doing, but short of a national lockdown?

I don't know exactly where that line is, but our ever-escalating curve seems to indicate we aren't there yet.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 17, 2020, 12:25:28 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 17, 2020, 11:59:30 AM

This is why colleges and universities were so keen on getting their students out of their residence halls for a few weeks / the rest of the semester.

It's hurts to see firsthand with my daughter, but universities completely made the right call.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 17, 2020, 12:31:34 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 17, 2020, 12:17:12 PM

Trillion dollar question.  Problem is we don't have data.  And we won't have real data for weeks.  Our testing is behind, and we are just at the upswing of this.  We are about two weeks behind Italy.  I think once Americans see the carnage of what a full exhausted hospital and staff look like, they may take this a bit more seriously.  For most people, this still isn't real.  And it won't be real until people they know and love are infected or die.

Heres the problem, we can't even say we are behind Italy...we can think we are but there is no certainty that we are. For all we know we are on the sustain part of the curve. I'm sure that's not very likely but I keep hearing we are two weeks behind Italy and that started at least 7 days ago. We are certainly seeing more patients diagnosed but we aren't yet seeing a crush of hospitalizations. That very well may be coming and I think the steps we've taken to date are reasonable but what evidence do we have we are going to be Italy? Shouldn't we be seeing the first big wave of hospitalizations by now? Why didn't Seattle explode like Italy did, they were seeing significant community spread around the time northern Italy saw it, how are they different?

I'm not trying to say none of this is real and I support the actions being taken but I can also see why people have questions.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 17, 2020, 12:36:37 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on March 17, 2020, 11:31:08 AM

This was on another board by a small business owner. A single point, but others seem to think it was accurate.

Unfortunately the answer we’re able to give everyone at this point isn’t a good one. Basically every property insurance policy written in the entire country has an exclusion for Virus/Communicable disease. Business Interruption coverage, which is a form of property insurance, is something that’s on your policies, but the attached exclusion also excludes coverage for business interruption from a virus. I’m not aware of an insurance carrier that has ever offered to provide a separate policy for something like this, and frankly I have no idea how they would even price/underwrite coverage for something like this in such an unpredictable and incredibly rare circumstance. This virus exclusion endorsement, or something similar is on basically every property insurance policy written in the US, which has us establishing a very low expectation with our clients from a coverage perspective. We’re all really in the same boat together right now.


That said, as the broker, we also are not the claims department for the insurance company deciding whether or not a claim gets paid/approved or declined. Property insurance (which in insurance origins was designed simply as ‘fire’ insurance) was created for physical losses (fire, wind, collapse, lighting strikes, cars/planes driving into buildings, theft, etc.). In this case, everyone’s building/property is still standing and physically capable of operating. This is all a very unprecedented circumstance, and the situation seems to be pretty fluid with government and financial institutions still determining the best course of action. It’s possible as the situation evolves we may recommend submitting a claim to the insurance company for a more formal up or down from them.

This is exactly correct.  ISO (Insurance Services Office, the organization that writes most coverage forms) has introduced a few advisory forms relating to viruses and business income, but those are 1) just advisory, 2) not filed by any company or approved by any state insurance commissioner, and 3) even if they were approved, no insurer would voluntarily expose themselves to millions of dollars of losses during the middle of a pandemic.

The problem with business income is that there needs to be a covered cause of loss to trigger coverage.  Fire, burglary, planes crashing into buildings, etc are all losses that would trigger business income.   There is civil authority as a cause of loss that is included in most policies; however, that is subject to the reason that civil authorities are mandating the shut down (usually an explosion, tornado, etc.) that would be a covered cause of loss if the peril impacted the particular building, but under civil authority, impacted nearby properties instead of the particular building.

Some companies might have limited coverage included on property enhancements, but those will be few and far between and very limited in scope and coverage.

A good comparison to make would be flood insurance.  Most flood insurance is written through the National Flood Insurance Program.  Individual insurance companies might write their own, but claims are paid out by the NFIP.  Since flooding is so wide-spread, no private insurer wants to/is able to take on that much risk.

If the gov't is going to provide a bailout to businesses, the best option might be to mandate that insurers cover the business income exposure, and then the feds could make payment to the insurers (a relatively small number of companies) instead of having to do so for millions of small and mid-sized businesses.  Plus, the insurers have adjusters and forensic accountants that know how to accurately calculate business income loss, vs millions of small and mid-sized businesses all trying to figure out how much to claim and the feds trying to reconcile those amounts.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 17, 2020, 12:38:59 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 17, 2020, 12:19:30 PM

How about more than we've been doing, but short of a national lockdown?

I don't know exactly where that line is, but our ever-escalating curve seems to indicate we aren't there yet.

South Korea didn't have to go with the lockdown route. They were able to slow the spread through self-quarantine. Their testing capacity helped immensely by clearly identifying who should be quarantined, but they still only administered tests to a very tiny portion of the population. I think it's less than half a percent.

Couldn't we take the lessons from Korea without having testing being the primary driver for self-quarantine? Why not push for quarantining anyone over 65 or 70 and anyone in their households? Then add in those with related comorbidities like diabetes and pre-existing respiratory ailments? Of course, anyone who experiences any symptoms should also self-quarantine. Aid packages could be directed to these people rather than broader portions of the population. This could greatly reduce the painful impacts of mass lockdowns.

I recognize the challenges with this approach, which essentially asks people to make smart decisions for themselves and for others. This is probably not realistic. But I do think there's something to be said about limiting the impacts to those who are not infected and are not likely to be affected. Thinking about ways to lessen the negative impacts on the (tens of) millions who could face challenges from broader measures seems like a good way to approach this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 17, 2020, 12:43:01 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 17, 2020, 12:31:34 PM

Heres the problem, we can't even say we are behind Italy...we can think we are but there is no certainty that we are. For all we know we are on the sustain part of the curve. I'm sure that's not very likely but I keep hearing we are two weeks behind Italy and that started at least 7 days ago. We are certainly seeing more patients diagnosed but we aren't yet seeing a crush of hospitalizations. That very well may be coming and I think the steps we've taken to date are reasonable but what evidence do we have we are going to be Italy? Shouldn't we be seeing the first big wave of hospitalizations by now? Why didn't Seattle explode like Italy did, they were seeing significant community spread around the time northern Italy saw it, how are they different?

I'm not trying to say none of this is real and I support the actions being taken but I can also see why people have questions.

I think the thing you keep forgetting, is that a positive case doesn't mean a person is at a hospital hooked up to a ventilator.  The disease takes a while to develop and takes longer to become serious.  We are detecting cases which will become severe in the coming days and weeks.   We aren't seeing enough people diagnosed because there still isn't adequate testing.  Seattle and NYC are going to be the first to get hit hard.  NY State added 30% to their total this morning.  Assuming 15% (current percentage of people who need medical care) of them become serious enough for beds and ICU, that is 63 beds that will be full soon.  And this number keeps adding up.  People don't go in, and then come out two days later all better in those cases.  We are talking about extended stays.  Tomorrow if NYC adds another 30% (it will most certainly be higher in the coming days when tests start coming back) and 15% of those get added to beds.  New York State has 3000 beds total.  When those are full we start the awful job of deciding who lives and who dies.  Most likely the people who arrive first in those beds won't be yanked out of them.  That's why the next two weeks will be deadly.

Hospital crush comes within the next week or two.  That's the current timeline.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 17, 2020, 12:46:11 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 17, 2020, 12:38:59 PM

South Korea didn't have to go with the lockdown route. They were able to slow the spread through self-quarantine. Their testing capacity helped immensely by clearly identifying who should be quarantined, but they still only administered tests to a very tiny portion of the population. I think it's less than half a percent.

Couldn't we take the lessons from Korea without having testing being the primary driver for self-quarantine? Why not push for quarantining anyone over 65 or 70 and anyone in their households? Then add in those with related comorbidities like diabetes and pre-existing respiratory ailments? Of course, anyone who experiences any symptoms should also self-quarantine. Aid packages could be directed to these people rather than broader portions of the population. This could greatly reduce the painful impacts of mass lockdowns.

I recognize the challenges with this approach, which essentially asks people to make smart decisions for themselves and for others. This is probably not realistic. But I do think there's something to be said about limiting the impacts to those who are not infected and are not likely to be affected. Thinking about ways to lessen the negative impacts on the (tens of) millions who could face challenges from broader measures seems like a good way to approach this.

Theoretically, I agree. But you identified the two major factors that will likely prevent this type of response here:

* the lack of available testing capacity
* the assumption that asymptomatic people in the US would even get tested, and then self-quarantine

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 17, 2020, 12:47:05 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 17, 2020, 12:38:59 PM

South Korea didn't have to go with the lockdown route. They were able to slow the spread through self-quarantine. Their testing capacity helped immensely by clearly identifying who should be quarantined, but they still only administered tests to a very tiny portion of the population. I think it's less than half a percent.

Couldn't we take the lessons from Korea without having testing being the primary driver for self-quarantine? Why not push for quarantining anyone over 65 or 70 and anyone in their households? Then add in those with related comorbidities like diabetes and pre-existing respiratory ailments? Of course, anyone who experiences any symptoms should also self-quarantine. Aid packages could be directed to these people rather than broader portions of the population. This could greatly reduce the painful impacts of mass lockdowns.

I recognize the challenges with this approach, which essentially asks people to make smart decisions for themselves and for others. This is probably not realistic. But I do think there's something to be said about limiting the impacts to those who are not infected and are not likely to be affected. Thinking about ways to lessen the negative impacts on the (tens of) millions who could face challenges from broader measures seems like a good way to approach this.

We have started weeks behind South Korea.  That's the problem.  We drag our feet, we discuss things in committees, we bargain in congress about crap that doesn't matter.  Our time to be South Korea was back in February when I was suggesting it.  Moving past this, we are also now aware of people being Asymptomatic carriers.  So without adequate testing (which always seems to be a week away, unfortunately) we can dream of being South Korea.  And without adequate testing, the people who are going to work to carry on with business as usual might be unknowingly spreading thinking they are fine and should continue to work.

THAT is why this is going to be bad to continue on as usual.  We need to lock it down, take our medicine, or we will be doing it in a week anyway with a much larger death toll.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on March 17, 2020, 12:47:40 PM

This is a great documentary if interested

https://www.pasteurfoundation.org/news-article/unseen-enemy-cnn-documentary

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 17, 2020, 12:49:41 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 17, 2020, 12:36:37 PM

This is exactly correct.  ISO (Insurance Services Office, the organization that writes most coverage forms) has introduced a few advisory forms relating to viruses and business income, but those are 1) just advisory, 2) not filed by any company or approved by any state insurance commissioner, and 3) even if they were approved, no insurer would voluntarily expose themselves to millions of dollars of losses during the middle of a pandemic.

The problem with business income is that there needs to be a covered cause of loss to trigger coverage.  Fire, burglary, planes crashing into buildings, etc are all losses that would trigger business income.   There is civil authority as a cause of loss that is included in most policies; however, that is subject to the reason that civil authorities are mandating the shut down (usually an explosion, tornado, etc.) that would be a covered cause of loss if the peril impacted the particular building, but under civil authority, impacted nearby properties instead of the particular building.

Some companies might have limited coverage included on property enhancements, but those will be few and far between and very limited in scope and coverage.

A good comparison to make would be flood insurance.  Most flood insurance is written through the National Flood Insurance Program.  Individual insurance companies might write their own, but claims are paid out by the NFIP.  Since flooding is so wide-spread, no private insurer wants to/is able to take on that much risk.

If the gov't is going to provide a bailout to businesses, the best option might be to mandate that insurers cover the business income exposure, and then the feds could make payment to the insurers (a relatively small number of companies) instead of having to do so for millions of small and mid-sized businesses.  Plus, the insurers have adjusters and forensic accountants that know how to accurately calculate business income loss, vs millions of small and mid-sized businesses all trying to figure out how much to claim and the feds trying to reconcile those amounts.

All great information that business owners need to be aware of.  The flood portion is a great comparison.  A mass event like this would bankrupt insurance companies if they are expected to be on the hook.  It simply isn't reasonable.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 17, 2020, 12:52:48 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 17, 2020, 12:31:34 PM

Heres the problem, we can't even say we are behind Italy...we can think we are but there is no certainty that we are. For all we know we are on the sustain part of the curve. I'm sure that's not very likely but I keep hearing we are two weeks behind Italy and that started at least 7 days ago. We are certainly seeing more patients diagnosed but we aren't yet seeing a crush of hospitalizations. That very well may be coming and I think the steps we've taken to date are reasonable but what evidence do we have we are going to be Italy? Shouldn't we be seeing the first big wave of hospitalizations by now? Why didn't Seattle explode like Italy did, they were seeing significant community spread around the time northern Italy saw it, how are they different?

I'm not trying to say none of this is real and I support the actions being taken but I can also see why people have questions.

I have a ton of questions about what's going on in Italy that I'm really struggling to find answers to. To me, a lot of the basic questions I would expect to be asked don't seem to be very prevalent in most articles on this topic.

We know some hopsitals in Italy have been overrun with cases. But how many? What is the current ICU capacity? How does the capacity vary by region? Does Italian ICU capacity rank highly in the world, or is it near the bottom? If only 3 hospitals in northern Italy have faced capacity issues, that's a much different situation than 50% of all hospitals now being at or above capacity throughout the whole country. If Italy was ill-prepared for this due to low ICU capacity per capita, then it's probably not a great case study for other countries.

We've also heard about the triage guidance that has been shared in Italy and how this prioritizes some patients over others. And we've heard about doctors electing to not treat older patients, essentially making the decision that the patient will die. But how widely has this guidance been put to use? How many hospitals are turning positive cases away due to age or comorbidities? Is this happening all over the country? Like the above, if 2 doctors at the same hospital reported a case where they turned away an 85 year old with the virus, that's a bad scenario, but it would represent an extreme. If a dozen hospitals in the north were forced to turn away patients who were able to receive care at a hospital and hour or two away, that's not ideal, but it's not the death panel scenario we all fear.

The stories coming out of Italy are horrible and scary. But there are so few details about how prevalent they are that I struggle to understand just how likely those scenarios are elsewhere. To me, it seems like we are hearing about the worst cases and simply extrapolating from there that this is the scene in most hospitals throughout the country.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 17, 2020, 12:54:25 PM

https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/1239971756686757889?s=19

Seems checks might be coming

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 17, 2020, 12:56:18 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 17, 2020, 12:54:25 PM

https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/1239971756686757889?s=19

Seems checks might be coming

End of April?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 17, 2020, 12:56:31 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 17, 2020, 12:54:25 PM

https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/1239971756686757889?s=19

Seems checks might be coming

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 17, 2020, 12:59:33 PM

https://twitter.com/BethanyAllenEbr/status/1239957782125662208?s=19

China covering up recovery?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 17, 2020, 01:00:50 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 16, 2020, 09:39:32 PM

https://twitter.com/MC_of_A/status/1239739685490102278?s=20

Shut down the quarantine. Get back to work. Open everything up.

Let's mentally prepare now.

3500 new cases again today. So has flattened off. I think this does reflect their testing capacity. But it still means that the average infection rate has leveled off, which is good.

A better metric to watch may sadly be deaths. It is a lagging indicator but has also leveled off the last two days (and today), in Italy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 17, 2020, 01:03:19 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 17, 2020, 12:43:01 PM

I think the thing you keep forgetting, is that a positive case doesn't mean a person is at a hospital hooked up to a ventilator.  The disease takes a while to develop and takes longer to become serious.  We are detecting cases which will become severe in the coming days and weeks.   We aren't seeing enough people diagnosed because there still isn't adequate testing.  Seattle and NYC are going to be the first to get hit hard.  NY State added 30% to their total this morning.  Assuming 15% (current percentage of people who need medical care) of them become serious enough for beds and ICU, that is 63 beds that will be full soon.  And this number keeps adding up.  People don't go in, and then come out two days later all better in those cases.  We are talking about extended stays.  Tomorrow if NYC adds another 30% (it will most certainly be higher in the coming days when tests start coming back) and 15% of those get added to beds.  New York State has 3000 beds total.  When those are full we start the awful job of deciding who lives and who dies.  Most likely the people who arrive first in those beds won't be yanked out of them.  That's why the next two weeks will be deadly.

Hospital crush comes within the next week or two.  That's the current timeline.

Fine, what's our current hospitalfixation rate, what are other countries hospitalization rates?

If there is any truth to the A) northern Italy is the epicenter because of the concentration of Wuhan factory workers and B) Viral loading impacting case severity then there is reason to believe Italy is the worst case especially given everything else that increases their risk model.

I can engineer the safest car in the world, but it'll cost you a million dollars, you buying? I support current measures but they can only be sustained for a couple of weeks before the cure is worse than the disease so to speak

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 17, 2020, 01:05:27 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 17, 2020, 12:47:05 PM

We have started weeks behind South Korea.  That's the problem.  We drag our feet, we discuss things in committees, we bargain in congress about crap that doesn't matter.  Our time to be South Korea was back in February when I was suggesting it.  Moving past this, we are also now aware of people being Asymptomatic carriers.  So without adequate testing (which always seems to be a week away, unfortunately) we can dream of being South Korea.  And without adequate testing, the people who are going to work to carry on with business as usual might be unknowingly spreading thinking they are fine and should continue to work.

THAT is why this is going to be bad to continue on as usual.  We need to lock it down, take our medicine, or we will be doing it in a week anyway with a much larger death toll.

My whole point was that maybe we can be South Korea without the testing. My 73 year old diabetic father doesn't need a test to know that he's part of the high risk population and needs to stay home. Similarly, if you have a cough or a fever, you should just take the same precautions you would if you had tested positive. We don't need everyone to be tested to take those measures.

The medicine you referred to us taking likely means long-term financial consequences for a significant percentage of the population. The much larger death toll you mentioned might only be a couple hundred. I think you're either overlooking or just downplaying the impacts to tens of millions of these large scale decisions. There are more than just 2 options. This isn't black and white.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 17, 2020, 01:14:55 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 17, 2020, 01:05:27 PM

My whole point was that maybe we can be South Korea without the testing. My 73 year old diabetic father doesn't need a test to know that he's part of the high risk population and needs to stay home. Similarly, if you have a cough or a fever, you should just take the same precautions you would if you had tested positive. We don't need everyone to be tested to take those measures.

The medicine you referred to us taking likely means long-term financial consequences for a significant percentage of the population. The much larger death toll you mentioned might only be a couple hundred. I think you're either overlooking or just downplaying the impacts to tens of millions of these large scale decisions. There are more than just 2 options. This isn't black and white.

We literally cannot be south Korea without testing.  That is pure fantasy.  As to your and mu03eng questions about hospital capacity, that sort of thing is easily searchable on the internet.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 17, 2020, 01:19:14 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 17, 2020, 12:54:25 PM

https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/1239971756686757889?s=19

Seems checks might be coming

$250B for $1000 checks says they are going out to 250M Americans. Given that it is means tested, sounds like it is going to everyone, including dependents.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 17, 2020, 01:20:35 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 17, 2020, 01:14:55 PM

We literally cannot be south Korea without testing.  That is pure fantasy.  As to your and mu03eng questions about hospital capacity, that sort of thing is easily searchable on the internet.

I've negotiated enough contracts to know what it looks like when someone doesn't have the data for their position.

I know what capacity is.....in the US at what rate are we seeing positive cases turn into hospitalization? I almost don't care how many positives we see, its death rate and hospitalization rate that means anything

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 17, 2020, 01:21:42 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 17, 2020, 01:19:14 PM

$250B for $1000 checks says they are going out to 250M Americans. Given that it is means tested, sounds like it is going to everyone, including dependents.

Only complaint is I'd like to see it early to mid-April but other than that good plan

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 17, 2020, 01:22:08 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on March 17, 2020, 08:59:34 AM

Generational war over the virus.  Younger people views on virus will make it more difficult to contain.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-generational-war-is-brewing-over-coronavirus-11584437401


This is an interesting juxtaposition considering younger people tend to care more about the environment, social wellness, and equality but when it comes to this virus that is not the case.

Anectdotally, it is entirely the opposite. All of my peers (30s) are freaked out and homebound, while our parents are still going out to eat.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 17, 2020, 01:22:28 PM

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/17/health/coronavirus-uk-model-study/index.html

Interesting study running contrary to what everyone is doing. Suggests that all this isolation is going to cost countless lives.

Someone is right and someone is wrong. I'm hoping they are wrong.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: lawdog77 on March 17, 2020, 01:24:03 PM

I have a dumb question. If one gets the coronavirus, for how long is that person contagious?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 17, 2020, 01:24:37 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 17, 2020, 10:18:06 AM

Whatever state you want to call it we are in some sort of lockdown nationally and it is impacting at least 50% of our economy directly and at least another 20% indirectly. If everything stays the same how long can we sustain this stance without irreparably harming our economy and/or the futures of millions of Americans? How do you balance the dozens of child that will be harmed by the current state of affairs with the handful of lives that will be lost as a result of going back to the status quo?

If I'm being really, really honest? I maintain the current status quo until the end of next week while simultaneously initiating a plan to rapidly expand hospital capacity. I then start slowly opening things back up until by the end of April almost all restrictions are off and maybe wait until mid-May for mass gatherings. We want the disease to spread but slowly aka flattening the curve but the peak of the curve can be changed by increasing capacity as well. Buy time for capacity then go nuts essentially.

Italy scared the bejesus out of everyone, understandably but they seem to be a worst case scenario as the result a bunch of factors:
-high average age
-higher than average comorbides
-a capacity gap
-a high population density
-a high tourism element

Not thar similar things can't happen else where but I think the thing people lose sight of is that the majority of the fatalities are due to a lack of intervention. The disease is survivable even in the highest risk population if we have available intervention. So really there are two curves we should be talking about, the incident curve and the capacity curve, as long as the capacity curve increases at a rate the same or better than the incident curve we are doing what we can.

What I'm having trouble rationalizing is how much national effort we put into avoiding Coronavirus deaths that we don't put into avoiding deaths of flu, or cancer, or car accidents, or overdoses, or suicides. I'm not trying to sound like I don't care, because I do, but at some point we have to have a frank conversation about how much "effort" is too much effort.

Here's where I disagree with your take...I think you are creating a false dichotomy. If we do less to save the economy, tons of people end up in the ICU and aren't able to work for a month. Even more are out for a week or two with milder symptoms. The economy is going to take a hit either way. Saving lives is the prudent choice.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 17, 2020, 01:26:06 PM

One of the first announcements I've seen from a major employer. 13,000 people potentially being furloughed without pay at Marriott. I wonder how many more of these we'll see in the coming weeks/months?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-17/marriott-starts-furloughs-that-could-hit-tens-of-thousands?srnd=markets-vp (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-17/marriott-starts-furloughs-that-could-hit-tens-of-thousands?srnd=markets-vp)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 17, 2020, 01:27:05 PM

Quote from: lawdog77 on March 17, 2020, 01:24:03 PM

I have a dumb question. If one gets the coronavirus, for how long is that person contagious?

I don't think anyone really knows the answer to that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on March 17, 2020, 01:30:58 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 17, 2020, 12:19:30 PM

How about more than we've been doing, but short of a national lockdown?

I don't know exactly where that line is, but our ever-escalating curve seems to indicate we aren't there yet.

First, I don't disagree. However, we still haven't seen whether actions taken last week (has it really only been 3-4 days?!) will have an impact on our "ever-escalating curve." It's Tuesday. Just last Friday, the Big East actually started a basketball game at MSG. It's hard to imagine that was only a few days ago. While many will argue that we're not doing enough, we are doing a lot. Over the next several days, we might be able to see if it is having an impact. But the any potential effects might be hidden in the data because (hopefully) testing is ramping up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 17, 2020, 01:33:23 PM

Quote from: Coleman on March 17, 2020, 01:24:37 PM

Here's where I disagree with your take...I think you are creating a false dichotomy. If we do less to save the economy, tons of people end up in the ICU and aren't able to work for a month. Even more are out for a week or two with milder symptoms. The economy is going to take a hit either way. Saving lives is the prudent choice.

If the US matches China and ends up with 80,000 cases with a 10% hospitalization rate, that's 8,000 people in the hospital and 80,000 people out of the workforce for 2 weeks. In the lockdown model, you have the potential for millions or tens of millions out of work for 2-4 weeks or more. Then you have to factor in longer term effects of business closures.

I've made this point enough, so I'll back off it for now. But I think this topic and the numbers impacted in any scenario are worth discussing and thinking through.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 17, 2020, 01:33:41 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 17, 2020, 12:07:39 PM

Did I say no effort anywhere? Clearly some effort is required, the question is how much?

I don't think you said that, and I don't think I suggested you did.
But that still doesn't answer my question.
Most, if not all, of the discussion about economic consequences here seems to focus on the economic consequences that come with closings, delays, lockdowns, etc. that have been ordered to flatten the curve. I haven't seen much discussion - especially from those who question the level of effort - about the potential economic consequences of a lesser effort.
Certainly letting tens of thousands of people - even the ones who are old and less valuable  - get sick and/or die, will hurt the economy. Sick and dead people don't work. Sick and dead people don't go to stores, bars and restaurants. Sick and dead people don't take flights and cruises. Sick and dead people don't go to sporting events.
What sick and dying people will do is overtax and potentially collapse the hospital and health care system. And if that happens, now people with other illnesses and needs can't get the care they need, leaving even fewer healthy people to work, shop, dine out, travel, attend sporting events, etc., and even further overtaxing the system.

I haven't read every page of this thread, so if these issues have been addressed, my apologies. But I haven't seen it factored into the discussions of the past several pages in which some have questioned the "effort."

So, again, in your rationalizations, have you weighed the economic consequences of an insufficient response?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 17, 2020, 01:39:29 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 17, 2020, 01:33:23 PM

If the US matches China and ends up with 80,000 cases with a 10% hospitalization rate, that's 8,000 people in the hospital and 80,000 people out of the workforce for 2 weeks. In the lockdown model, you have the potential for millions or tens of millions out of work for 2-4 weeks or more. Then you have to factor in longer term effects of business closures.

I've made this point enough, so I'll back off it for now. But I think this topic and the numbers impacted in any scenario are worth discussing and thinking through.

Except China produced those numbers - if you trust them, which is a whole other issue - largely thanks to a massive lockdown that went far beyond anything happening here.
They didn't just do nothing and that's how it worked out. They followed the lockdown model times 100.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 17, 2020, 01:54:45 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 17, 2020, 01:33:41 PM

I don't think you said that, and I don't think I suggested you did.
But that still doesn't answer my question.
Most, if not all, of the discussion about economic consequences here seems to focus on the economic consequences that come with closings, delays, lockdowns, etc. that have been ordered to flatten the curve. I haven't seen much discussion - especially from those who question the level of effort - about the potential economic consequences of a lesser effort.
Certainly letting tens of thousands of people - even the ones who are old and less valuable  - get sick and/or die, will hurt the economy. Sick and dead people don't work. Sick and dead people don't go to stores, bars and restaurants. Sick and dead people don't take flights and cruises. Sick and dead people don't go to sporting events.
What sick and dying people will do is overtax and potentially collapse the hospital and health care system. And if that happens, now people with other illnesses and needs can't get the care they need, leaving even fewer healthy people to work, shop, dine out, travel, attend sporting events, etc., and even further overtaxing the system.

I haven't read every page of this thread, so if these issues have been addressed, my apologies. But I haven't seen it factored into the discussions of the past several pages in which some have questioned the "effort."

So, again, in your rationalizations, have you weighed the economic consequences of an insufficient response?

Thanks for the cliarification, I missed your point. I think there is negative economic impact baked in generally now regardless. The question is how bad the impact is based on the choices we make. Losing a million people in 6 months is going to be substantially worse than shutting down for 3 weeks, but is shutting down for 6 weeks worse? If we lose 50,000 over the next 3 months is that better or worse than shutting down for 3 weeks? I honestly don't know but those are the decisions we have to make. If we go the full China for a month but we save 20,000 people is that the right way to go?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Archies Bat on March 17, 2020, 01:55:22 PM

Interesting charts.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 17, 2020, 01:57:09 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 17, 2020, 01:33:23 PM

If the US matches China and ends up with 80,000 cases with a 10% hospitalization rate, that's 8,000 people in the hospital and 80,000 people out of the workforce for 2 weeks. In the lockdown model, you have the potential for millions or tens of millions out of work for 2-4 weeks or more. Then you have to factor in longer term effects of business closures.

I've made this point enough, so I'll back off it for now. But I think this topic and the numbers impacted in any scenario are worth discussing and thinking through.

Would not be 80K out of work how many would be retired then how many work from home.  Cannot just make up numbers some take them seriously

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 17, 2020, 02:01:21 PM

Quote from: Archies Bat on March 17, 2020, 01:55:22 PM

Interesting charts.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/)

that is great stuff.

My question is on recoveries how is that determined?  do people come in and get retested?  I would have to think that number is off just as the number of cases is off

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on March 17, 2020, 02:04:34 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 17, 2020, 01:33:23 PM

If the US matches China and ends up with 80,000 cases with a 10% hospitalization rate, that's 8,000 people in the hospital and 80,000 people out of the workforce for 2 weeks. In the lockdown model, you have the potential for millions or tens of millions out of work for 2-4 weeks or more. Then you have to factor in longer term effects of business closures.

But like, both those things happened?

China had 80,000 cases with 8,000 people in the hospital AND had to have millions or tens of millions out of work for 2-4 weeks or more.  Otherwise god knows how many cases they would have had.

We're starting to lose the forest from the trees here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 17, 2020, 02:05:08 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on March 17, 2020, 02:01:21 PM

My question is on recoveries how is that determined?  do people come in and get retested?  I would have to think that number is off just as the number of cases is off

At least for the US, I believe the answer is that you need to be officially tested negative twice after "recovering" to be counted as recovering

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 17, 2020, 02:08:41 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 17, 2020, 02:05:08 PM

At least for the US, I believe the answer is that you need to be officially tested negative twice after "recovering" to be counted as recovering

over what period of time? 
Day 1 new case
Day 15 test for recovery
Day 20 2nd test for recovery?

and again how many people get tested for recovery or just say i am feeling better i do not need to go back.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 17, 2020, 02:11:32 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 17, 2020, 01:33:41 PM

Certainly letting tens of thousands of people - even the ones who are old and less valuable  - get sick and/or die, will hurt the economy. Sick and dead people don't work. Sick and dead people don't go to stores, bars and restaurants. Sick and dead people don't take flights and cruises. Sick and dead people don't go to sporting events.
What sick and dying people will do is overtax and potentially collapse the hospital and health care system. And if that happens, now people with other illnesses and needs can't get the care they need, leaving even fewer healthy people to work, shop, dine out, travel, attend sporting events, etc., and even further overtaxing the system.

So, again, in your rationalizations, have you weighed the economic consequences of an insufficient response?

Interesting point, and you're right, I don't think it's really been discussed.

About 3,000,000 people die per year in the US. With a mortality rate of 1%-2%, we might see 1-2 thousand deaths from the virus. That's not much of an increase compared to a typical year. I don't see there being much economic impact.

Sick people and people who need to be hospitalized might have more impact, but it's still probably not going to be a huge spike. I found data for 2016 that shows almost 35 million hospital stays in the US that year. So even if we have 1 million cases and 100,000 hospitalized, that doesn't represent even half a percent increase in hospitalizations. If you put high but realistic numbers in place, and suggest we have 10,000 - 15,000 people hospitalized, it's hard to think that would move the needle much.

https://www.hcup-us.ahrq.gov/reports/statbriefs/sb246-Geographic-Variation-Hospital-Stays.jsp (https://www.hcup-us.ahrq.gov/reports/statbriefs/sb246-Geographic-Variation-Hospital-Stays.jsp)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 17, 2020, 02:17:15 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 17, 2020, 02:11:32 PM

Interesting point, and you're right, I don't think it's really been discussed.

About 3,000,000 people die per year in the US. With a mortality rate of 1%-2%, we might see 1-2 thousand deaths from the virus. That's not much of an increase compared to a typical year. I don't see there being much economic impact.

Sick people and people who need to be hospitalized might have more impact, but it's still probably not going to be a huge spike. I found data for 2016 that shows almost 35 million hospital stays in the US that year. So even if we have 1 million cases and 100,000 hospitalized, that doesn't represent even half a percent increase in hospitalizations. If you put high but realistic numbers in place, and suggest we have 10,000 - 15,000 people hospitalized, it's hard to think that would move the needle much.
agree with you there.  The biggest thing to me is the panic created over this virus.  that is the most volatile thing in all this
https://www.hcup-us.ahrq.gov/reports/statbriefs/sb246-Geographic-Variation-Hospital-Stays.jsp (https://www.hcup-us.ahrq.gov/reports/statbriefs/sb246-Geographic-Variation-Hospital-Stays.jsp)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 17, 2020, 02:24:22 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on March 17, 2020, 02:08:41 PM

over what period of time? 
Day 1 new case
Day 15 test for recovery
Day 20 2nd test for recovery?

and again how many people get tested for recovery or just say i am feeling better i do not need to go back.

From the CDC
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/if-you-are-sick/steps-when-sick.html

Quote

People with COVID-19 who have stayed home (home isolated) can stop home isolation under the following conditions:
If you will not have a test to determine if you are still contagious, you can leave home after these three things have happened:
You have had no fever for at least 72 hours (that is three full days of no fever without the use medicine that reduces fevers)
AND
other symptoms have improved (for example, when your cough or shortness of breath have improved)
AND
at least 7 days have passed since your symptoms first appeared
If you will be tested to determine if you are still contagious, you can leave home after these three things have happened:
You no longer have a fever (without the use medicine that reduces fevers)
AND
other symptoms have improved (for example, when your cough or shortness of breath have improved)
AND
you received two negative tests in a row, 24 hours apart. Your doctor will follow CDC guidelines.

So basically, 24-48 hours after you feel better with 2 tests.  Or 72 hours to 7 days after you feel better if you're self monitoring.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 17, 2020, 02:25:59 PM

Wisconsin just closed bars and restaurants to all but take out.  Starting 5:00 PM tonight.  Wonder if too many places were ignoring the suggestion of 50 people on St. Patricks Day.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 17, 2020, 02:31:51 PM

Quote from: lawdog77 on March 17, 2020, 01:24:03 PM

I have a dumb question. If one gets the coronavirus, for how long is that person contagious?

People have been suggested to isolate for 14 days. People appear to be most contagious the week before symptoms and the week of symptoms.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 17, 2020, 02:41:22 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 17, 2020, 01:20:35 PM

I've negotiated enough contracts to know what it looks like when someone doesn't have the data for their position.

I know what capacity is.....in the US at what rate are we seeing positive cases turn into hospitalization? I almost don't care how many positives we see, its death rate and hospitalization rate that means anything

Get bent, dude.  I'm not doing your research for you.  You can't ask me a million questions that you won't just answer yourself with a simple search.  I'm not getting paid to do your research.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on March 17, 2020, 02:44:24 PM

Quote from: Archies Bat on March 17, 2020, 01:55:22 PM

Interesting charts.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/)

Is that chart accurate? Just checked Italy's and they have listed 2000 as critical cases and 26000 as mild.

Is Italy's problem that they have a massive amount of people in the hospital for no reason? because I cant imagine 2,000-3,000 being a huge strain on their system.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 17, 2020, 02:47:45 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 17, 2020, 02:11:32 PM

Interesting point, and you're right, I don't think it's really been discussed.

About 3,000,000 people die per year in the US. With a mortality rate of 1%-2%, we might see 1-2 thousand deaths from the virus. That's not much of an increase compared to a typical year. I don't see there being much economic impact.

Sick people and people who need to be hospitalized might have more impact, but it's still probably not going to be a huge spike. I found data for 2016 that shows almost 35 million hospital stays in the US that year. So even if we have 1 million cases and 100,000 hospitalized, that doesn't represent even half a percent increase in hospitalizations. If you put high but realistic numbers in place, and suggest we have 10,000 - 15,000 people hospitalized, it's hard to think that would move the needle much.

https://www.hcup-us.ahrq.gov/reports/statbriefs/sb246-Geographic-Variation-Hospital-Stays.jsp (https://www.hcup-us.ahrq.gov/reports/statbriefs/sb246-Geographic-Variation-Hospital-Stays.jsp)

I'd be elated if we only end up with under 10k deaths. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 17, 2020, 03:00:04 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 17, 2020, 02:31:51 PM

People have been suggested to isolate for 14 days. People appear to be most contagious the week before symptoms and the week of symptoms.

I posted the EXACT CDC guidance above.  Please refer to that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 17, 2020, 03:15:11 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 17, 2020, 02:41:22 PM

Get bent, dude.  I'm not doing your research for you.  You can't ask me a million questions that you won't just answer yourself with a simple search.  I'm not getting paid to do your research.

I don't need research, my whole point was that if the concern is how quickly we overwhelm capacity none of the data you've been presenting truly matters. The number positive cases doesn't matter because a minor case has little to no impact on capacity, but positive cases that convert to hospitalizations which is what consumes capacity (and how long those beds are occupied by a single patient). Without that information we're just guessing and the sheer volume of positive tests will continue to drive fear.

For the record, I'm not saying you are wrong or the worst isn't about to hit, I'm just saying the data we are using is wrong.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 17, 2020, 03:25:26 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 17, 2020, 01:22:28 PM

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/17/health/coronavirus-uk-model-study/index.html

Interesting study running contrary to what everyone is doing. Suggests that all this isolation is going to cost countless lives.

Someone is right and someone is wrong. I'm hoping they are wrong.

I didn't get that message at all from the study. What I understood was that 4-6 week isolation measures will still lead to deaths as virus will spread again once we all come back out.

Study seems to say we gotta stay isolated until a cure/vaccine is found (up to 18 months) to prevent the deaths and overwhelming of the healthcare system

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 17, 2020, 03:30:04 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 17, 2020, 02:47:45 PM

I'd be elated if we only end up with under 10k deaths.

Given that there are under 8,000 deaths globally right now, I think that's a pretty likely outcome.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 17, 2020, 03:30:45 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 17, 2020, 03:15:11 PM

I don't need research, my whole point was that if the concern is how quickly we overwhelm capacity none of the data you've been presenting truly matters. The number positive cases doesn't matter because a minor case has little to no impact on capacity, but positive cases that convert to hospitalizations which is what consumes capacity (and how long those beds are occupied by a single patient). Without that information we're just guessing and the sheer volume of positive tests will continue to drive fear.

For the record, I'm not saying you are wrong or the worst isn't about to hit, I'm just saying the data we are using is wrong.

I think you've been ignoring a lot of what I have been saying in some sort of attempt to derail this discussion to, "We don't have the data, so we can't make a decision" is your end.

Great.  So throw our hands up in the air, and ignore the data we do have because it isn't perfect.  The idea here is to save PEOPLE.  Of course not at ANY cost, but what we must do what we can. 

I think at this point, you are presupposing that everyone is infected.  They aren't.  Most people are NOT infected.  You test to find out who is infected so that they get isolated to contain spread.  This is how we lower the curve.

The idea in situations like this is to plan for the worst, and hope for the best.  As an analogy, you don't build a bridge to the weight capacity that is expected, you exceed it in every way that is affordable and realistic in case mistakes are made.  The same applies to health care.  Obviously, we all will have different opinions of what is too far, and what isn't enough.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 17, 2020, 03:31:35 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 17, 2020, 03:30:04 PM

Given that there are under 8,000 deaths globally right now. I think that's a pretty likely outcome.

If you think only 8,000 people have died globally, I have a bridge to sell you.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 17, 2020, 03:32:54 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 17, 2020, 03:31:35 PM

If you think only 8,000 people have died globally, I have a bridge to sell you.

What makes you think it's higher? What data would suggest that?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 17, 2020, 03:35:44 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 17, 2020, 03:32:54 PM

What makes you think it's higher? What data would suggest that?

The number of deaths is probably the most accurate number we have unless you are saying China his a lot. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 17, 2020, 03:39:06 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 17, 2020, 03:32:54 PM

What makes you think it's higher? What data would suggest that?

Simple logic.  Do you think there is any chance that Africa isn't teeming with this?  You're assuming the numbers from China and Iran are truthful.  They aren't.  China also has extensive economic activities with Africa.  Do you really think that Africa has a total of 8 deaths?  Do you think that they have adequate resources to test their dead?  Hell no.  And you can repeat that story about most of the third world countries on the map at the top.  If there is one case confirmed, assume there are thousands infected that the government of those countries can do nothing about.  As a developed nation, we can do things to beat this back.  For them, this is wildfire, and thousands will die, probably millions.  Most won't even be counted, and we will be stuck doing mathematical estimates for years to come.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 17, 2020, 03:49:14 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 17, 2020, 03:25:26 PM

I didn't get that message at all from the study. What I understood was that 4-6 week isolation measures will still lead to deaths as virus will spread again once we all come back out.

Study seems to say we gotta stay isolated until a cure/vaccine is found (up to 18 months) to prevent the deaths and overwhelming of the healthcare system

That's because I'm an idiot and you're a better reader than me.

I made the terrible mistake of reading the beginning of the CNN article, and not the actual study, then misinterpreting some of their definitions. My sincere apologies and thanks for pointing out my error.

You are right the actual article shows that the only way to avoid large scale deaths is the super aggressive strategy we are using right now, but for a long time.

If anyone is actually interested in reading the original study, it is below. There are actually a lot of statistics on what would happen under the varying strategies people are discussing here, with actual changes in the expected number of deaths. So if people are looking for numbers, they are there.

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 17, 2020, 04:02:35 PM

Evers just shut down k-12 schools indefinitely.

All bars and restaurants are closed except for takeout and delivery.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 17, 2020, 04:06:05 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 17, 2020, 03:39:06 PM

Simple logic.  Do you think there is any chance that Africa isn't teeming with this?  You're assuming the numbers from China and Iran are truthful.  They aren't.  China also has extensive economic activities with Africa.  Do you really think that Africa has a total of 8 deaths?  Do you think that they have adequate resources to test their dead?  Hell no.  And you can repeat that story about most of the third world countries on the map at the top.  If there is one case confirmed, assume there are thousands infected that the government of those countries can do nothing about.  As a developed nation, we can do things to beat this back.  For them, this is wildfire, and thousands will die, probably millions.  Most won't even be counted, and we will be stuck doing mathematical estimates for years to come.

I'll concede the fact that there are some underdeveloped nations that may not have accurate totals. I don't think changing the estimate from 8,000 known deaths to millions is at all reasonable, though. 

And back to the initial point, if you trusts Europe's numbers, which are under 1,000 right now, I think the US remaining under 10,000 fatalities is very reasonable to assume. There just don't seem to be any numbers anywhere to support massive fatalities in the US.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 17, 2020, 04:50:26 PM

so at this point why not have those over 60 and those with pre existing conditions in lockdown and let the rest of us go about our business and let this thing run its course.  From the sound of it that would have a minimal impact on hospitals and keep them running well. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 17, 2020, 04:58:12 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 17, 2020, 04:06:05 PM

I'll concede the fact that there are some underdeveloped nations that may not have accurate totals. I don't think changing the estimate from 8,000 known deaths to millions is at all reasonable, though. 

And back to the initial point, if you trusts Europe's numbers, which are under 1,000 right now, I think the US remaining under 10,000 fatalities is very reasonable to assume. There just don't seem to be any numbers anywhere to support massive fatalities in the US.

No, not millions yet, but it is certainly a possibility in the months to come.  Europe is still on the upswing on this as well.  China and South Korea are the only two on the down slope in my opinion, and their extreme measures have decreased their curve to absolutely manageable levels.  People there can still get sick, but with the testing and quarantining people who become sick they can shut down the community spread.  We have not done enough yet in the US to shut it down.  Lock it down, identify cases, stop the spread.  That is something we can work with.  Especially since we are trending in that direction anyway.  The only way to enforce this is big fines, and jail time.  I imagine that we will be seeing the National Guard out in the not to distant future making sure things don't get out of hand.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 17, 2020, 05:12:39 PM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/

Great article breaking down the math aspect of this in more simple terms.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on March 17, 2020, 05:20:42 PM

Feel like this will be like a broken record after a while...but looking very likely a buddy of mine has it.  Was feeling fine last Wed/Thur, by Friday spiked fever, cough, chills, achy, negative flu test, but no doctor can give him one for COVID.

Works on Wall Street, no travel the past few months...self isolating in a spare bedroom with his wife his wife and 3 kiddos in the other parts of the house.

Prayers up for just fluids, rest, and some time for this to run its course.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 17, 2020, 05:24:24 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on March 17, 2020, 04:50:26 PM

so at this point why not have those over 60 and those with pre existing conditions in lockdown and let the rest of us go about our business and let this thing run its course.  From the sound of it that would have a minimal impact on hospitals and keep them running well.

Fauci: If you're young, you're less vulnerable than me, but you're not invulnerable, and you don't want to put loved ones at risk. "Please co-operate with us."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Not A Serious Person on March 17, 2020, 05:30:01 PM

Kevin Durant among four Nets players to test positive for coronavirus

Four players for the Nets have tested positive for the coronavirus, and one is exhibiting symptoms while the other three are asymptomatic, the team announced Tuesday.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28917855/four-nets-players-test-positive-coronavirus

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 17, 2020, 05:41:34 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 17, 2020, 05:24:24 PM

Fauci: If you're young, you're less vulnerable than me, but you're not invulnerable, and you don't want to put loved ones at risk. "Please co-operate with us."

so what happens 2 months from now when the lockdown is lifted and we all go out into the world again.  March 12 all over again until we get the vaccine out there.  I am staying in lockdown for now but i want my freedom back

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 17, 2020, 05:45:20 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 17, 2020, 03:30:04 PM

Given that there are under 8,000 deaths globally right now, I think that's a pretty likely outcome.

I disagree. I would not be surprised if we see 6 figure deaths. No one is taking it seriously yet. Beaches in Florida are still packed. This is going to get ugly fast.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 17, 2020, 05:46:36 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on March 17, 2020, 05:41:34 PM

so what happens 2 months from now when the lockdown is lifted and we all go out into the world again.  March 12 all over again until we get the vaccine out there.  I am staying in lockdown for now but i want my freedom back

By then there is a bit of herd immunity.  Once again, the idea is to slow the rate of infection.  We slow it to wait for the vaccine and to keep our health care system from being overrun.  Once we can control or slow the outbreak enough, we can go back to normal life.

Currently, there doesn't seem to be any evidence that people can become infected again once they have it.  Now, I'm hopeful that this is the case, and it is more like chicken pox... but we could get really unlucky with this and it could mutate and make our antibodies ineffective.  But that is something time will tell.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 17, 2020, 06:06:00 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 17, 2020, 05:46:36 PM

By then there is a bit of herd immunity.  Once again, the idea is to slow the rate of infection.  We slow it to wait for the vaccine and to keep our health care system from being overrun.  Once we can control or slow the outbreak enough, we can go back to normal life.

That's the part most people don't get. We are not going to stop the spread, so we can only try to control it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Eldon on March 17, 2020, 06:14:05 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 17, 2020, 03:15:11 PM

I don't need research, my whole point was that if the concern is how quickly we overwhelm capacity none of the data you've been presenting truly matters. The number positive cases doesn't matter because a minor case has little to no impact on capacity, but positive cases that convert to hospitalizations which is what consumes capacity (and how long those beds are occupied by a single patient). Without that information we're just guessing and the sheer volume of positive tests will continue to drive fear.

For the record, I'm not saying you are wrong or the worst isn't about to hit, I'm just saying the data we are using is wrong.

Positive cases is a leading indicator of deaths.

That's why it's an important metric it helps us understand how much capacity we will need.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 17, 2020, 06:24:30 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 17, 2020, 06:06:00 PM

That's the part most people don't get. We are not going to stop the spread, so we can only try to control it.

I get the slowing the spread but The majority of the herd is inside avoiding it.  So to me it will be worse once we all come out to play.  Warm temps have no impact.  I do not see an end until the vaccine comes out several months from now. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: RJax55 on March 17, 2020, 06:25:28 PM

I'm beginning to wonder the prevalence of asymptomatic cases of COVID-19.

I read an article back a few weeks ago interviewing Bruce Aylward from the WHO on China's COVID-19 response. He stated that the Chinese thought that asymptomatic cases were quite rare. However, we now have three instances of cases involving groups of people that were tested (whether sick or not), where individuals tested positive and were asymptomatic. Grand Princess (Japan), the Utah Jazz and now the Brooklyn Nets. Certainly a very small subset to look at, but each group had individuals that were asymptomatic COVID-19 cases.

Since no country is testing all citizens, there's really no way to figure out how many cases end up being asymptomatic. I'm starting to think it is a great deal higher than what the Chinese found.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 17, 2020, 06:29:33 PM

Quote from: RJax55 on March 17, 2020, 06:25:28 PM

I'm beginning to wonder the prevalence of asymptomatic cases of COVID-19.

I read an article back a few weeks ago interviewing Bruce Aylward from the WHO on China's COVID-19 response. He stated that the Chinese thought that asymptomatic cases were quite rare. However, we now have three instances of cases involving groups of people that were tested (whether sick or not), where individuals tested positive and were asymptomatic. Grand Princess (Japan), the Utah Jazz and now the Brooklyn Nets. Certainly a very small subset to look at, but each group had individuals that were asymptomatic COVID-19 cases.

Since no country is testing all citizens, there's really no way to figure out how many cases end up being asymptomatic. I'm starting to think it is a great deal higher than what the Chinese found.

I am sure that number is huge just like it is for every other virus

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 17, 2020, 06:36:04 PM

Quote from: RJax55 on March 17, 2020, 06:25:28 PM

I'm beginning to wonder the prevalence of asymptomatic cases of COVID-19.

I read an article back a few weeks ago interviewing Bruce Aylward from the WHO on China's COVID-19 response. He stated that the Chinese thought that asymptomatic cases were quite rare. However, we now have three instances of cases involving groups of people that were tested (whether sick or not), where individuals tested positive and were asymptomatic. Grand Princess (Japan), the Utah Jazz and now the Brooklyn Nets. Certainly a very small subset to look at, but each group had individuals that were asymptomatic COVID-19 cases.

Since no country is testing all citizens, there's really no way to figure out how many cases end up being asymptomatic. I'm starting to think it is a great deal higher than what the Chinese found.

Here's a question:

Why the unnatural carnal knowledge are tests being run on asymptomatic individuals who aren't high-risk or aren't in professions on the frontlines when we have a limited amount of tests right now?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 17, 2020, 06:44:20 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on March 17, 2020, 06:24:30 PM

I get the slowing the spread but The majority of the herd is inside avoiding it.  So to me it will be worse once we all come out to play.  Warm temps have no impact.  I do not see an end until the vaccine comes out several months from now.

Where'd you get your medical degree and PhD in epidemiology?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 17, 2020, 06:45:14 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 17, 2020, 05:46:36 PM

By then there is a bit of herd immunity.  Once again, the idea is to slow the rate of infection.  We slow it to wait for the vaccine and to keep our health care system from being overrun.  Once we can control or slow the outbreak enough, we can go back to normal life.

Currently, there doesn't seem to be any evidence that people can become infected again once they have it.  Now, I'm hopeful that this is the case, and it is more like chicken pox... but we could get really unlucky with this and it could mutate and make our antibodies ineffective.  But that is something time will tell.

Very well stated. A LOT can be gained simply by slowing the rate of spread.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: RJax55 on March 17, 2020, 06:45:37 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 17, 2020, 06:36:04 PM

Here's a question:

Why the unnatural carnal knowledge are tests being run on asymptomatic individuals who aren't high-risk or aren't in professions on the frontlines when we have a limited amount of tests right now?

C'mon, you know why. And, I don't disagree with you.

That said, figuring out why individuals are asymptomatic could be very important in fighting this virus.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on March 17, 2020, 06:46:33 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 17, 2020, 06:36:04 PM

Here's a question:

Why the unnatural carnal knowledge are tests being run on asymptomatic individuals who aren't high-risk or aren't in professions on the frontlines when we have a limited amount of tests right now?

The article states they went to private company and paid for them to be done.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 17, 2020, 06:47:59 PM

Quote from: reinko on March 17, 2020, 06:46:33 PM

The article states they went to private company and paid for them to be done.

Fair enough. Hadn't read the article.

That said, it still seems like we should be prioritizing ALL TESTS during a time of pandemic/declared national emergency

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 17, 2020, 06:51:24 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on March 17, 2020, 06:24:30 PM

I get the slowing the spread but The majority of the herd is inside avoiding it.  So to me it will be worse once we all come out to play.  Warm temps have no impact.  I do not see an end until the vaccine comes out several months from now.

Herd immunity is only part of the reason for slowing the spread. As Hards mentioned, there is also the goal of spreading the cases so the healthcare system doesn’t get overrun. And even though a vaccine may take several months, researchers are also actively looking at “off-label” uses of currently approved drugs, to see if they might mitigate the severity of the illness. I won’t be surprised if we hear about some viable possibilities within a few weeks, if not sooner.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 17, 2020, 06:59:34 PM

Quote from: RJax55 on March 17, 2020, 06:25:28 PM

I'm beginning to wonder the prevalence of asymptomatic cases of COVID-19.

I read an article back a few weeks ago interviewing Bruce Aylward from the WHO on China's COVID-19 response. He stated that the Chinese thought that asymptomatic cases were quite rare. However, we now have three instances of cases involving groups of people that were tested (whether sick or not), where individuals tested positive and were asymptomatic. Grand Princess (Japan), the Utah Jazz and now the Brooklyn Nets. Certainly a very small subset to look at, but each group had individuals that were asymptomatic COVID-19 cases.

Since no country is testing all citizens, there's really no way to figure out how many cases end up being asymptomatic. I'm starting to think it is a great deal higher than what the Chinese found.

Ha, its almost as if the Chinese government lies.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 17, 2020, 07:00:50 PM

Quote from: reinko on March 17, 2020, 06:46:33 PM

The article states they went to private company and paid for them to be done.

C.R.E.A.M.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 17, 2020, 07:08:19 PM

Sheesh

https://twitter.com/SalehaMohsin/status/1240045093958057985?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: RJax55 on March 17, 2020, 07:09:19 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 17, 2020, 06:59:34 PM

Ha, its almost as if the Chinese government lies.

True, but the WHO seemed to support that claim. And, I know, the criticism of the WHO and China.

If asymptomatic cases are common, thats both a big positive and negative.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on March 17, 2020, 07:21:48 PM

Gotta admit, I’m curious to see if everyone singing Fauci’s praises and extolling his credibility will accept his claim that the problems with testing were not the President’s or CDC’s fault.
Hell, CNN called him “Trump’s Coronavirus truth teller.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 17, 2020, 07:28:56 PM

Quote from: RJax55 on March 17, 2020, 07:09:19 PM

True, but the WHO seemed to support that claim. And, I know, the criticism of the WHO and China.

If asymptomatic cases are common, thats both a big positive and negative.

Personally, I'd prefer all mild cases, but I don't have a genie and three wishes  ;D

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 17, 2020, 07:30:30 PM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 17, 2020, 07:21:48 PM

Gotta admit, I’m curious to see if everyone singing Fauci’s praises and extolling his credibility will accept his claim that the problems with testing were not the President’s or CDC’s fault.
Hell, CNN called him “Trump’s Coronavirus truth teller.”

I view Fauci as similar to John Kelly. Kelly TRIED to push back and do the right things when he was Chief of Staff, but learned that he could only go so far to avoid the wrath of Trump. IMHO, Fauci is walking a similar tightrope to avoid getting fired and replaced by a Trump yes-man.

Fauci is far from perfect, but I believe he is trying to do the right thing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 17, 2020, 07:31:26 PM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 17, 2020, 07:21:48 PM

Gotta admit, I’m curious to see if everyone singing Fauci’s praises and extolling his credibility will accept his claim that the problems with testing were not the President’s or CDC’s fault.
Hell, CNN called him “Trump’s Coronavirus truth teller.”

That is fair criticism, but that may be political nonsense that he has to buy into to remain on the job.  We've all seen our President's proclivity for firing people who say bad things about him.  Also, to me, blame is currently inconsequential, and if it strokes Trump's ego enough to keep Fauci around, I am okay with it.

I still will take issue with the CDC guidance that masks aren't necessary... because that is foolishness and they had an agenda when they made that claim.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on March 17, 2020, 07:39:49 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 17, 2020, 07:31:26 PM

That is fair criticism, but that may be political nonsense that he has to buy into to remain on the job.  We've all seen our President's proclivity for firing people who say bad things about him.  Also, to me, blame is currently inconsequential, and if it strokes Trump's ego enough to keep Fauci around, I am okay with it.

It absolutely may be. Or it may be 100% true and correct. I have no doubt that many people who thought he was the only trustworthy person on the team will discount him now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 17, 2020, 07:54:00 PM

Anyone else notice how quickly the numbers are starting to rise on the Covid-19 dashboard?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 17, 2020, 07:57:08 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 17, 2020, 07:54:00 PM

Anyone else notice how quickly the numbers are starting to rise on the Covid-19 dashboard?

Yep. 😔

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Bo Ryan's Massage Therapist on March 17, 2020, 08:04:11 PM

Dudes, The local ICUs are starting to get patients. I’m a primary care provider in Milwaukee.  It is only a matter of time before the state has our first of many deaths.  I've been testing multiple patients a day and we were told today by our organization/the state to stop.  We send our tests to the state lab and they can only handle 400 tests a day. They can't keep up.  The state says the infection is already widespread and there is no point in testing mild illness or outpatients. Right now we're only going to test inpatients and critically ill patients.  It seems if you are celebrity you can get a test too.

 We are grossly under prepared for this as a country as we don't have adequate testing and there is lack of protective equipment. I'm supposed to wear an N 95 respirator mask but I don't have one.  I’m wearing a standard poorly fitted mask that doesn’t offer great protection.  I have to wear the same damn gown every day for the same patients. Protocol is to change protective equipment after each patient but we just don’t have the resources.  It's madness.

Don't let anyone tell you this isn't real. And it's definitely not just the flu. The flu doesn’t kill 20% of patients hospitalized with it.  The flu doesn’t permanently destroy your lungs like this. Stay safe my friends

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 17, 2020, 08:11:11 PM

Quote from: Bo Ryan's Massage Therapist on March 17, 2020, 08:04:11 PM

Dudes, The local ICUs are starting to get patients. I’m a primary care provider in Milwaukee.  It is only a matter of time before the state has our first of many deaths.  I've been testing multiple patients a day and we were told today by our organization/the state to stop.  We send our tests to the state lab and they can only handle 400 tests a day. They can't keep up.  The state says the infection is already widespread and there is no point in testing mild illness or outpatients. Right now we're only going to test inpatients and critically ill patients.  It seems if you are celebrity you can get a test too.  We are grossly under prepared for this as a country as we don't have adequate testing and there is lack of protective equipment. I'm supposed to wear an N 95 respirator mask but I don't have one.  I’m wearing a standard poorly fitted mask that doesn’t offer great protection.  I have to wear the same damn gown every day for the same patients. Protocols to change protective equipment after each patient but we just don’t have the resources.  It's madness. Don't let anyone tell you this isn't real. And it's definitely not just the flu. The flu doesn’t kill 20% of patients hospitalized with it.  The flu doesn’t permanently destroy your lungs like this. Stay safe my friends

YOU stay safe.

My wife was a nurse and was on the front lines at the start of the AIDS crisis. It was a very scary time not just for her, but for myself as well as early on, we didn't even know how the disease was spread from person to person. You, and thousands of other healthcare pros, put yourselves at risk on a daily basis doing what is right.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 17, 2020, 08:21:54 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 17, 2020, 08:11:11 PM

YOU stay safe.

My wife was a nurse and was on the front lines at the start of the AIDS crisis. It was a very scary time not just for her, but for myself as well as early on, we didn't even know how the disease was spread from person to person. You, and thousands of other healthcare pros, put yourselves at risk on a daily basis doing what is right.

+1 Keep fighting the good fight.

Hopefully, firsthand accounts like this will bring more people into our current reality.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Eldon on March 17, 2020, 08:27:21 PM

WHO: ibuprofen bad for coronavirus

https://www.yahoo.com/news/avoid-taking-ibuprofen-covid-19-symptoms-202007508.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 17, 2020, 08:28:10 PM

 https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/03/17/hello-italy-your-future-is-grimmer-than-you-think/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook (https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/03/17/hello-italy-your-future-is-grimmer-than-you-think/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook)

Sobering as well

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 17, 2020, 08:30:24 PM

Quote from: Eldon on March 17, 2020, 08:27:21 PM

WHO: ibuprofen bad for coronavirus

https://www.yahoo.com/news/avoid-taking-ibuprofen-covid-19-symptoms-202007508.html

Okay, now I don't feel quite as bad about my post a day ago.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 17, 2020, 08:32:26 PM

Quote from: Bo Ryan's Massage Therapist on March 17, 2020, 08:04:11 PM

Dudes, The local ICUs are starting to get patients. I’m a primary care provider in Milwaukee.  It is only a matter of time before the state has our first of many deaths.  I've been testing multiple patients a day and we were told today by our organization/the state to stop.  We send our tests to the state lab and they can only handle 400 tests a day. They can't keep up.  The state says the infection is already widespread and there is no point in testing mild illness or outpatients. Right now we're only going to test inpatients and critically ill patients.  It seems if you are celebrity you can get a test too.

 We are grossly under prepared for this as a country as we don't have adequate testing and there is lack of protective equipment. I'm supposed to wear an N 95 respirator mask but I don't have one.  I’m wearing a standard poorly fitted mask that doesn’t offer great protection.  I have to wear the same damn gown every day for the same patients. Protocol is to change protective equipment after each patient but we just don’t have the resources.  It's madness.

Don't let anyone tell you this isn't real. And it's definitely not just the flu. The flu doesn’t kill 20% of patients hospitalized with it.  The flu doesn’t permanently destroy your lungs like this. Stay safe my friends

Bolded for emphasis.  Stay safe.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 17, 2020, 08:40:19 PM

My moms Medispa got shut down by Arizona board of plastic surgery today. They said if something goes wrong they don't want to back up hospitals and don't want non essential treatments taking up medical supplies. Mom and sister considering being volunteer nurses if Phoenix Scottsdale gets hit hard.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 17, 2020, 08:44:52 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 17, 2020, 08:40:19 PM

My moms Medispa got shut down by Arizona board of plastic surgery today. They said if something goes wrong they don't want to back up hospitals and don't want non essential treatments taking up medical supplies. Mom and sister considering being volunteer nurses if Phoenix Scottsdale gets hit hard.

Respect.  We need people like them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 17, 2020, 08:47:07 PM

Quote from: Eldon on March 17, 2020, 08:27:21 PM

WHO: ibuprofen bad for coronavirus

https://www.yahoo.com/news/avoid-taking-ibuprofen-covid-19-symptoms-202007508.html

I can't emphasize enough how terrible this is.  The first thing people reach for when they feel bad is ibuprofen.  This means you don't take it unless you are sure you are not positive for Covid19.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Bo Ryan's Massage Therapist on March 17, 2020, 08:56:33 PM

Asthmatics should also not use nebulizer machines/just inhalers.  Nebulizers can aerosolize the virus.

For the granola crowd who takes Elderberry syrup in an attempt to prevent illness. STOP. There is concern Elderberry also makes the illness worse by releasing a cytokine response.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 17, 2020, 09:02:02 PM

Quote from: Bo Ryan's Massage Therapist on March 17, 2020, 08:56:33 PM

Asthmatics should also not use nebulizer machines/just inhalers.  Nebulizers can aerosolize the virus.

For the granola crowd who takes Elderberry syrup in an attempt to prevent illness. STOP. There is concern Elderberry also makes the illness worse by releasing a cytokine response.

Thanks for the info, my wife had been taking it.  Kiboshed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 17, 2020, 09:08:30 PM

Quote from: Bo Ryan's Massage Therapist on March 17, 2020, 08:56:33 PM

Asthmatics should also not use nebulizer machines/just inhalers.  Nebulizers can aerosolize the virus.

For the granola crowd who takes Elderberry syrup in an attempt to prevent illness. STOP. There is concern Elderberry also makes the illness worse by releasing a cytokine response.

Hope the CDC gets info like this out quickly. And the ibuprofen thing is enormous - CDC must get word out ASAP for people to use acetaminophen.

Scary.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Bo Ryan's Massage Therapist on March 17, 2020, 09:22:02 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 17, 2020, 09:02:02 PM

Thanks for the info, my wife had been taking it.  Kiboshed.

I should clarify. I’m on a Facebook group for physicians sharing info regarding COVID-19. This includes Italian docs. You can take Elderberry but the second you feel sick you should stop due to concern over a cytokine storm that can make it worse.  I can’t find concrete info on this but I’d be cautious.

The ibuprofen thing is concerning. Acetaminophen is fine. 

There is helpful info on cutting edge treatments being tried that I can share if anyone’s loved ones become infected.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 17, 2020, 09:49:19 PM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 17, 2020, 07:21:48 PM

Gotta admit, I’m curious to see if everyone singing Fauci’s praises and extolling his credibility will accept his claim that the problems with testing were not the President’s or CDC’s fault.
Hell, CNN called him “Trump’s Coronavirus truth teller.”

He’s towing the company line in public so he doesn’t get canned. I’m fine with it. We need him in the job.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 17, 2020, 09:49:44 PM

Quote from: Bo Ryan's Massage Therapist on March 17, 2020, 08:56:33 PM

Asthmatics should also not use nebulizer machines/just inhalers.  Nebulizers can aerosolize the virus.

For the granola crowd who takes Elderberry syrup in an attempt to prevent illness. STOP. There is concern Elderberry also makes the illness worse by releasing a cytokine response.

Just started using a nebulizer because of painting and drywalling around the house. Should I stop and stick to garlic and fish oil?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Eldon on March 17, 2020, 10:30:41 PM

Quote from: keefe on March 16, 2020, 11:49:13 PM

The illness runs for about two weeks. And lethargy sets in towards the end.

We personally know of at least two dozen confirmed cases here in Seattle and many more where the symptoms mirrored ours.

What is interesting is that they altered the criteria here because not everyone had all of the symptoms, especially shortness of breath.

We need to be mindful of its impact on those populations which are at mortal risk. This is why we voluntarily self-quarantine. But for the vast majority of people it will be a rather uncomfortable cold.

Tom Hanks:

"Good News: One week after testing positive, in self-isolation, the symptoms are much the same. No fever but the blahs," Hanks wrote on social media Tuesday. "Folding the laundry and doing the dishes leads to a nap on the couch."

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/tom-hanks-coronavirus-health-update-isolation-no-fever-232623665.html

_________________________________

I wonder if this is the result of:
a) the body still attacking the remnants of the virus
or
b) long-lasting, possibly-permanent, damage

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 17, 2020, 10:45:14 PM

Well, made it to Az, my SWA 1:40 pm flight had maybe 30-35 people.  Basically everyone had their own row

On another note, has anyone heard of using the plasma antibodies from a recovered patient?  I heard that one recovered patient can provide enough plasma antibodies for 2 sick people.  Now, the big question will be at what point/stage of an illness is the plasma effective?  If the patient is on a ventilator?  Could it work as a “vaccine”or preventative? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 17, 2020, 10:46:45 PM

As far as I'm aware, there still isn't a good explanation for why children don't seem to have the same response to COVID-19. I wonder part of it is due to children being more likely to have recently had an active infection by the coronavirus NL63, that causes croup in children.

NL63 uses the same biochemical mode of entry as COVID-19, and hence could possibly generate a similar signal to the immune system and antibody production.

If so, infection with NL63, which produces little or no symptoms in adults, could function as a pseudo-vaccine to at least lead to weaker infections and more mild symptoms.

Just throwing crap against the wall.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 17, 2020, 11:05:54 PM

Yikes! A whopping 1,400 new cases in the past day, with 300 new cases reported just in the past two hours. It was 4,600 last night, and over 6,000 now.

And that’s without enough tests to test everyone with symptoms.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 17, 2020, 11:07:27 PM

Quote from: Coleman on March 17, 2020, 05:45:20 PM

I disagree. I would not be surprised if we see 6 figure deaths. No one is taking it seriously yet. Beaches in Florida are still packed. This is going to get ugly fast.

You think we'll see 6 figure deaths globally or in the US? I haven't seen anything that would make me believe 100,000 deaths globally would be within the realm of possibility. And if you're talking about the US.... well, let's just say we'll have to agree to disagree.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 17, 2020, 11:38:45 PM

A little slice of good news: Here in Rochester, Mayo developed the capacity to run about 500 tests/day. Then T-Wolves player Karl-Anthony Towns made a donation that will soon enable us to double that capacity. Very cool move.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Benny B on March 17, 2020, 11:58:54 PM

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/penguins-aquarium-coronavirus-chicago-223212522.html

Don’t know if this is cool, or if covid-19 is a conspiracy orchestrated by penguins. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 18, 2020, 12:13:28 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 17, 2020, 10:45:14 PM

Well, made it to Az, my SWA 1:40 pm flight had maybe 30-35 people.  Basically everyone had their own row

On another note, has anyone heard of using the plasma antibodies from a recovered patient?  I heard that one recovered patient can provide enough plasma antibodies for 2 sick people.  Now, the big question will be at what point/stage of an illness is the plasma effective?  If the patient is on a ventilator?  Could it work as a “vaccine”or preventative?

Yes China did that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 18, 2020, 12:36:49 AM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 17, 2020, 11:07:27 PM

You think we'll see 6 figure deaths globally or in the US? I haven't seen anything that would make me believe 100,000 deaths globally would be within the realm of possibility. And if you're talking about the US.... well, let's just say we'll have to agree to disagree.

This is only a tweet thread summarizing the report which you find in the original tweet.

https://twitter.com/jeremycyoung/status/1239975682643357696?s=19

Quote

  Save as PDF  My Authors

We can now read the Imperial College report on COVID-19 that led to the extreme measures we've seen in the US this week. Read it; it's terrifying. I'll offer a summary in this thread; please correct me if I've gotten it wrong.
imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial… 

The Imperial College team plugged infection and death rates from China/Korea/Italy into epidemic modeling software and ran a simulation: what happens if the US does absolutely nothing -- if we treat COVID-19 like the flu, go about our business, and let the virus take its course? 

Here's what would happen: 80% of Americans would get the disease. 0.9% of them would die. Between 4 and 8 percent of all Americans over the age of 70 would die. 2.2 million Americans would die from the virus itself. 

It gets worse. People with severe COVID-19 need to be put on ventilators. 50% of those on ventilators still die, but the other 50% live. But in an unmitigated epidemic, the need for ventilators would be 30 times the number available in the US. Nearly 100% of these patients die. 

So the actual death toll from the virus would be closer to 4 million Americans -- in a span of 3 months. 8-15% of all Americans over 70 would die. 

How many is 4 million people? It's more Americans than have died all at once from anything, ever. It's the population of Los Angeles. It's 4 times the number of Americans who died in the Civil War...on both sides combined. It's two-thirds as many people as died in the Holocaust. 

Americans make up 4.4% of the world's population. If we extrapolate these numbers to the rest of the world (warning: MOE is high here), this gives us 90 million deaths globally from COVID-19, in 3-6 months. 15 Holocausts. 1.5 times as many people as died in all of World War II. 

Now, of course countries won't stand by and do nothing. So the Imperial College team ran the numbers again, this time assuming a "mitigation" strategy: all symptomatic cases in the US in isolation. Families of those cases quarantined. All Americans over 70 social distancing. 

This mitigation strategy is what you've seen a lot of people talking about when they say we should "flatten the curve": try to slow the spread of the disease to the people most likely to die from it, to avoid overwhelming hospitals. 

And it does flatten the curve -- but not nearly enough. The death rate from the disease is cut in half, but it still kills 1.1 million Americans all by itself. The peak need for ventilators falls by two-thirds, but it still exceeds the number of ventilators in the US by 8 times. 

That leaves the actual death toll in the US at right around 2 million deaths. The population of Houston. Two Civil Wars. One-third of the Holocaust. Globally, 45 million people die: 7.5 Holocausts, 3/4 of World War II. That's what happens if we rely on mitigation & common sense. 

Finally, the Imperial College team ran the numbers again, assuming a "suppression" strategy: isolate symptomatic cases, quarantine their family members, social distancing for the whole population, all public gatherings/most workplaces shut down, schools and universities close. 

Suppression works! The death rate in the US peaks 3 weeks from now at a few thousand deaths, then goes down. We hit but don't exceed the number of available ventilators. The nightmarish death tolls from the rest of the study disappear. 

But here's the catch: if we EVER relax suppression before a vaccine is administered to the entire population, COVID-19 comes right back and kills millions of Americans in a few months, the same as before. 

After the 1st suppression period ends in July, we could probably lift restrictions for a month, followed by 2 more months of suppression, in a repeating pattern without triggering an outbreak or overwhelming the ventilator supply. Staggering breaks by city could do a bit better. 

But we simply cannot EVER allow the virus to spread throughout the entire population in the way other viruses do, because it is just too deadly. If lots of people we know end up getting COVID-19, it means millions of Americans are dying. It simply can't be allowed to happen. 

How quickly will a vaccine be here? Last week three separate research teams announced they had developed vaccines. Yesterday, one of them (with FDA approval) injected its vaccine into a live person, without waiting for animal testing. That's an extreme measure, but necessary. 

Now, though, they have to monitor the test subject for 14 months to make sure the vaccine is safe. This part can't be rushed: if you're going to inoculate all humans, you have to make absolutely sure the vaccine itself won't kill them. It probably won't, but you have to be sure. 

Assuming the vaccine is safe and effective, it will still take several months to produce enough to inoculate the global population. For this reason, the Imperial College team estimated it will be about 18 months until the vaccine is available. 

During those 18 months, things are going to be very difficult and very scary. Our economy and society will be disrupted in profound ways. And if suppression actually works, it will feel like we're doing all this for nothing, because infection and death rates will remain low. 

It's easy to get people to come together in common sacrifice in the middle of a war. It's very hard to get them to do so in a pandemic that looks invisible precisely because suppression methods are working. But that's exactly what we're going to have to do. /end

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on March 18, 2020, 12:42:02 AM

Quote from: Eldon on March 17, 2020, 10:30:41 PM

Tom Hanks:

"Good News: One week after testing positive, in self-isolation, the symptoms are much the same. No fever but the blahs," Hanks wrote on social media Tuesday. "Folding the laundry and doing the dishes leads to a nap on the couch."

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/tom-hanks-coronavirus-health-update-isolation-no-fever-232623665.html

_________________________________

I wonder if this is the result of:
a) the body still attacking the remnants of the virus
or
b) long-lasting, possibly-permanent, damage

Just to note, Tom Hanks is a diabetic

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on March 18, 2020, 12:45:46 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 17, 2020, 10:45:14 PM

Well, made it to Az, my SWA 1:40 pm flight had maybe 30-35 people.  Basically everyone had their own row

On another note, has anyone heard of using the plasma antibodies from a recovered patient?  I heard that one recovered patient can provide enough plasma antibodies for 2 sick people.  Now, the big question will be at what point/stage of an illness is the plasma effective?  If the patient is on a ventilator?  Could it work as a “vaccine”or preventative?

I posted this the other day.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/03/15/coronavirus-treatment-could-coming-doctors-say-still-no-vaccine/5052788002/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on March 18, 2020, 12:53:39 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 17, 2020, 11:05:54 PM

Yikes! A whopping 1,400 new cases in the past day, with 300 new cases reported just in the past two hours. It was 4,600 last night, and over 6,000 now.

And that’s without enough tests to test everyone with symptoms.

Just quick numbers from the hot spots like Boston, SF, Seattle, but this national 30% increase is half or less where intervention has occurred. Not official as it is very fluid, and testing availability will bias numbers, but the rate is slowing where public action has occurred like China and SK. A long ways to go but an early sign. That said, as this expands to new areas, these same actions need to be deployed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 18, 2020, 01:18:40 AM

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 18, 2020, 12:45:46 AM

I posted this the other day.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/03/15/coronavirus-treatment-could-coming-doctors-say-still-no-vaccine/5052788002/

Thanks doc, I tried going back and scanning as many posts as I could To catch up, looking for it so didn’t mean to be redundant

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 18, 2020, 01:20:05 AM

So remember when CDC said they were delivering enough tests for 75k patients 1.5 weeks ago?  And remember that they said millions more were coming online?  So why have only 27k been tested between both the CDC and public labs?

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/testing-in-us.html

As mentioned above, health care providers are still unable to get the tests they want.  They are being told to only test the high risk, and already hospitalized.  Internally *they* are wondering if it's a conspiracy to keep the numbers down.

For the record, I mostly think it's still just poor execution.  But wouldn't' be surprised if the current admin wants to keep the numbers low (since they said as much)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on March 18, 2020, 07:24:51 AM

How much longer are you fellow WFH people going to utilize daycare?

I feel like my wife and I can still be productive WFH, but without the kids. If we keep the kids home, there’s a massive drop off coming. She’s busier than I am at this point, but that could level off as well.

Flipside is daycare and spreading germs. You have six families dropping kids off every day, that’s not really distancing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 18, 2020, 07:25:35 AM

Quote from: Retire0 on March 18, 2020, 07:24:51 AM

How much longer are you fellow WFH people going to utilize daycare?

I feel like my wife and I can still be productive WFH, but without the kids. If we keep the kids home, there’s a massive drop off coming. She’s busier than I am at this point, but that could level off as well.

Flipside is daycare and spreading germs. You have six families dropping kids off every day, that’s not really distancing.

In my area, just about all of the daycares closed once the schools did

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on March 18, 2020, 07:26:43 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 18, 2020, 01:20:05 AM

For the record...But wouldn't' be surprised if the current admin wants to keep the numbers low (since they said as much)

And for the record, this is where you move from discussion of the President's handling of this matter (which I agree is completely fair game in this "no politics allowed" thread) to pure and unabashed politics.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 18, 2020, 07:56:13 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 17, 2020, 06:44:20 PM

Where'd you get your medical degree and PhD in epidemiology?

Here you go smart guy this talks about flattening the curve and then going right back into a breakout shortly after the lockdowns are lifted

This is only a tweet thread summarizing the report which you find in the original tweet.

https://twitter.com/jeremycyoung/status/1239975682643357696?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 18, 2020, 08:16:01 AM

If that scenario is accurate, an 18 month social distancing will never work.  The economic implications are too enormous.  At some point, you may just need to innoculate people and hope and pray it works.  And after a week or a month, let all but the most vulnerable get back to life.  As cruel as that sounds, I just don't think there is anyway without the fast track of a vaccine, that we are going to be able to prevent a lot of people from dying of this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 18, 2020, 08:24:09 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 18, 2020, 08:16:01 AM

If that scenario is accurate, an 18 month social distancing will never work.  The economic implications are too enormous.  At some point, you may just need to innoculate people and hope and pray it works.  And after a week or a month, let all but the most vulnerable get back to life.  As cruel as that sounds, I just don't think there is anyway without the fast track of a vaccine, that we are going to be able to prevent a lot of people from dying of this.

my thoughts exactly, the mental health issues from being in lockdown would blow way past the virus. Its a scary thing no matter which way you look at it

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 18, 2020, 08:25:32 AM

Quote from: injuryBug on March 18, 2020, 08:24:09 AM

my thoughts exactly, the mental health issues from being in lockdown would blow way past the virus. Its a scary thing no matter which way you look at it

I am actually optimistic about the innovative power of the world to figure something out.  Everyone around the world is on this...

Right now though, we need time.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on March 18, 2020, 08:26:50 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 18, 2020, 08:16:01 AM

If that scenario is accurate, an 18 month social distancing will never work.  The economic implications are too enormous.  At some point, you may just need to innoculate people and hope and pray it works.  And after a week or a month, let all but the most vulnerable get back to life.  As cruel as that sounds, I just don't think there is anyway without the fast track of a vaccine, that we are going to be able to prevent a lot of people from dying of this.

The way it's getting spread today people are taking it as gospel. And it could be right, and honestly, confirms some of my bigger fears about this situation.

I'm kinda at the point where I wish we'd maybe we deal with the actual data we have, however flawed it is, and see how things play out. Now that we're deep into curve flattening, I'm not sure what benefit scenarios like this have.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 18, 2020, 08:30:49 AM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 18, 2020, 07:26:43 AM

And for the record, this is where you move from discussion of the President's handling of this matter (which I agree is completely fair game in this "no politics allowed" thread) to pure and unabashed politics.

Saying the administration might be doing the thing they said they were trying to do is pure unabashed politics? I mean it treads a line sure but I don't think it's as political as you're making it out to be.

Also anyone have a more up to date map of cases? Seems like the Johns Hopkins one isn't updating regularly last I checked

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 18, 2020, 08:34:43 AM

With a vaccine, it is common to monitor the first test takers of it for 12-14 months for safety, death, efficacy, etc...even if risk is low.  It is why you will see and hear 18 months often as a time frame when an effective vaccine will be available for anyone that wants one.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 18, 2020, 08:35:08 AM

That summary tweet was written by a professor of...history. Not exactly the go-to for info on pandemics.

Regardless, even if he is right that the natural course of the virus would be to resume its upward escalation, there are good reasons for a lockdown:

1. Even a temporary flattening of the curve will spread cases out, allowing the finite number of healthcare providers to deal with the onslaught of patients.

2. The delay will help providers get the masks, gloves and other protective equipment to protect themselves while treating the sick. And it will allow time for an increase in testing capabilities, so they can definitively know what we are dealing with.

3. The delay will get us just a little bit closer to a vaccine.

4. The delay will buy time for researchers to test currently marketed drugs to see if they can mitigate the course of the disease.

That's just off the top of my head, and based on things I have read recently.

So my summary of what is already out there from the CDC, the Mayo Clinic, Johns Hopkins and others is this: In a situation like this, a delay of a few weeks can make a HUGE difference.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 18, 2020, 08:38:41 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 18, 2020, 12:36:49 AM

This is only a tweet thread summarizing the report which you find in the original tweet.

https://twitter.com/jeremycyoung/status/1239975682643357696?s=19

Thanks for posting this, Hards. The thread seems to be a pretty simple summary of the longer report. I'll say that I'm still pretty skeptical the death toll will ever hit the astonishingly high numbers like the first scenario since the US and all other countries are taking action, even if it's view by some as inadequate.

The suppression piece of Scenario 3 seems to be what we've seen play out in China and Singapore, and Italy is on the same course as well. The continued infections post-suppression haven't been observed yet, though. I struggle to believe that a semi-continuous suppression for 18 months is the only way to prevent mass infection and death. China is getting back to business as usual and has seen very few repeat cases from what I understand. The modeled outcome seems quite different from the small sample we've seen so far of the end of the suppression model.

I do plan to read through the full study at some point soon, so hopefully there will be some detail to explain some of the assumptions used in Scenario 3. I'm curious to see if they note the difference between their model and the current situation in some of the recovering countries.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 18, 2020, 08:40:03 AM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 18, 2020, 07:26:43 AM

And for the record, this is where you move from discussion of the President's handling of this matter (which I agree is completely fair game in this "no politics allowed" thread) to pure and unabashed politics.

I wonder why you think that. It is the very definition of “how” he handled it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 18, 2020, 08:41:24 AM

Quote from: Jockey on March 18, 2020, 08:40:03 AM

I wonder why you think that. It is the very definition of “how” he handled it.

Past tense.  There is no indication he is handling this way now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 18, 2020, 08:45:55 AM

Quote from: Jockey on March 18, 2020, 08:40:03 AM

I wonder why you think that. It is the very definition of “how” he handled it.

Agreed. POTUS's "handling" of the pandemic includes things he says publicly about it, contradictions and all.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 18, 2020, 08:47:39 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 18, 2020, 08:41:24 AM

Past tense.  There is no indication he is handling this way now.

Which is the reason I said “handled”.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on March 18, 2020, 09:11:22 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 18, 2020, 08:30:49 AM

Saying the administration might be doing the thing they said they were trying to do is pure unabashed politics? I mean it treads a line sure but I don't think it's as political as you're making it out to be.

Also anyone have a more up to date map of cases? Seems like the Johns Hopkins one isn't updating regularly last I checked

I'm not particularly pleased with how this has been handled, but I've seen those quotes too. I want the numbers to be low. You want the numbers to be low. We're all fixated with the numbers (just look at the top of the page, if you have any doubts about that). The President saying he wants the numbers to be low is a very, very different thing than saying that the President is conspiring to limit testing so the numbers will be low.  So yes, I think that accusation is unabashedly political. If I misinterpreted Rocky's post, then my apologies.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 18, 2020, 09:11:49 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 18, 2020, 08:30:49 AM

Also anyone have a more up to date map of cases? Seems like the Johns Hopkins one isn't updating regularly last I checked

It seems to be updating for me. About 15 minutes ago, I saw 6,510 cases reported in the US. Right now, it says 6,519.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 18, 2020, 09:15:26 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 18, 2020, 09:11:49 AM

It seems to be updating for me. About 15 minutes ago, I saw 6,510 cases reported in the US. Right now, it says 6,519.

When I checked IL last night it said like 65 cases maybe I missed the 1 before that or something.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 18, 2020, 09:16:32 AM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 18, 2020, 09:11:22 AM

I'm not particularly pleased with how this has been handled, but I've seen those quotes too. I want the numbers to be low. You want the numbers to be low. We're all fixated with the numbers (just look at the top of the page, if you have any doubts about that). The President saying he wants the numbers to be low is a very, very different thing than saying that the President is conspiring to limit testing so the numbers will be low.  So yes, I think that accusation is unabashedly political. If I misinterpreted Rocky's post, then my apologies.

I think you misinterpreted his post, since he specifically says that he believes "it's still just poor execution" (see below). The speculation about a conspiracy was something he attributed to providers.


As mentioned above, health care providers are still unable to get the tests they want.  They are being told to only test the high risk, and already hospitalized.  Internally *they* are wondering if it's a conspiracy to keep the numbers down.

For the record, I mostly think it's still just poor execution.  But wouldn't' be surprised if the current admin wants to keep the numbers low (since they said as much)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 18, 2020, 09:30:46 AM

BNO Newsroom
@BNODesk
·
3h
NEW: Iran reports 1,192 new cases of coronavirus and 147 new deaths, raising total to 17,361 cases and 1,135 dead

I know the rest of the world is busy worrying about US numbers, but Iran basically puts out the same figures plus or minus 100 cases, and plus or minus 50 deaths.

Super duper suspect.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 18, 2020, 09:33:21 AM

I am very much struggling this morning to see anything but unbelievable doom.

The unemployment numbers are going to be absolutely staggering.  Sec. Mnuchin suggested 20% unemployment without massive govt intervention.   I don't have a lot of faith in that .. it'll help, no doubt, but .. the economic impact is just so far reaching, so quick.  People aren't going to use their $1000 to buy a car, they're going to be scared and hoard it for food. 

Seeing the "suppression" line graphs .. the peaks and waves go on forever until the population is immunized.   That's a full 12-18-24 months of economic devastation, with no one building homes, buying cars, travelling.   

Someone talk me out of it, but I can't shake the idea that the probability of a global great depression is extremely high.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 18, 2020, 09:37:02 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 18, 2020, 09:33:21 AM

I am very much struggling this morning to see anything but unbelievable doom.

The unemployment numbers are going to be absolutely staggering.  Sec. Mnuchin suggested 20% unemployment without massive govt intervention.   I don't have a lot of faith in that .. it'll help, no doubt, but .. the economic impact is just so far reaching, so quick.  People aren't going to use their $1000 to buy a car, they're going to be scared and hoard it for food. 

Seeing the "suppression" line graphs .. the peaks and waves go on forever until the population is immunized.   That's a full 12-18-24 months of economic devastation, with no one building homes, buying cars, travelling.   

Someone talk me out of it, but I can't shake the idea that the probability of a global great depression is extremely high.

I've been feeling really down too, but here is one upside I can think of.  If China is really mostly past this, that is a really good thing for the global economy. It might mean we lose our #1 spot, but we are so reliant on them for our supply chain and in trade, it is still a very good thing if they are past this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on March 18, 2020, 09:38:19 AM

Quote from: Retire0 on March 18, 2020, 07:24:51 AM

How much longer are you fellow WFH people going to utilize daycare?

I feel like my wife and I can still be productive WFH, but without the kids. If we keep the kids home, there’s a massive drop off coming. She’s busier than I am at this point, but that could level off as well.

Flipside is daycare and spreading germs. You have six families dropping kids off every day, that’s not really distancing.

We're struggling with this as well. We send our daughter to MU's center, and there's maybe a third of the kids still there. They're still open until the University closes. So while the risk is still there, it's not as populated as it usually is.

I'm in the same situation, both remote, but she's busier. I just don't see us being productive trying to keep the little one entertained all day. Even Frozen only keeps her attention for about 10 minutes.

I don't know what the right answer is, honestly. I don't feel great about either one.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on March 18, 2020, 09:39:16 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 18, 2020, 09:16:32 AM

I think you misinterpreted his post, since he specifically says that he [mostly] believes "it's still just poor execution" [but wouldn't be surprised if it's a conspiracy] (see below). The speculation about a conspiracy was something he attributed to providers.


As mentioned above, health care providers are still unable to get the tests they want.  They are being told to only test the high risk, and already hospitalized.  Internally *they* are wondering if it's a conspiracy to keep the numbers down.

For the record, I mostly think it's still just poor execution.  But wouldn't' be surprised if the current admin wants to keep the numbers low (since they said as much)

Just saying...The reason I didn't quote the first part is that the poor execution is not political; the conspiracy theory is.

I'm moving on...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 18, 2020, 09:49:19 AM

My apologies if this has been posted before, but with the debate over whether POTUS eliminated the pandemic response office or not, whether it made a difference or not, some people seem to think it's still open to debate whether he contributed to the development of this crisis.

In that vein, I found the article below. It addresses something different from the pandemic response office per se; it addresses the fact that CDC was forced to cut funding to 39 countries - funding that was used to: "prevent, detect and respond to dangerous infectious disease threats, such as Ebola and the Zika virus." In response to that move, the former CDC Director said the cut "would significantly increase the chance an epidemic will spread without our knowledge and endanger lives in our country and around the world."

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/03/health/cdc-slashes-global-epidemic-programs-outrage/index.html

So yes, public health officials saw something like this coming as a result of budget cuts to HHS and its member offices like CDC. And the budget cuts were mandated by...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 18, 2020, 10:09:09 AM

I think the next logical step is government stepping in and stopping all required payments - rent/mortgage, utilities, debt payments, everything. For individuals and businesses

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 18, 2020, 10:09:21 AM

Quote from: Coleman on March 18, 2020, 09:37:02 AM

I've been feeling really down too, but here is one upside I can think of.  If China is really mostly past this, that is a really good thing for the global economy. It might mean we lose our #1 spot, but we are so reliant on them for our supply chain and in trade, it is still a very good thing if they are past this.

In my weekly teleconference on Monday morning, my company's China plant manager said it's basically back to business as usual in China.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 18, 2020, 10:12:58 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 18, 2020, 10:09:21 AM

In my weekly teleconference on Monday morning, my company's China plant manager said it's basically back to business as usual in China.

The question is, does the U.S. have the will to do what China did?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 18, 2020, 10:13:08 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 18, 2020, 10:09:09 AM

I think the next logical step is government stepping in and stopping all required payments - rent/mortgage, utilities, debt payments, everything. For individuals and businesses

Then you are going to have bank liquidity issues, which may make things substantially worse.  Many people aren't going to have trouble making payments in the short term.  Including myself.  There is zero reason why people like me shouldn't pay their mortgage payments, etc.

It would be much better to give people money from the federal government, because they have the liquidity to manage it.  And if it has to be more than what they are talking, then it will be more.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 18, 2020, 10:18:35 AM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 18, 2020, 07:26:43 AM

And for the record, this is where you move from discussion of the President's handling of this matter (which I agree is completely fair game in this "no politics allowed" thread) to pure and unabashed politics.

For the record - I understand.  I should choose my words more carefully.  But my point remains - why have only 27k been tested if 75k tests are available and lots more are coming online?  I think part of it is that that labs can't process them fast enough - but as Goooo points out, processing capability is increasing daily. 

At this point the fact that only those at high risk or in hospitals can get tested is a f*cking failure.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 18, 2020, 10:20:20 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 18, 2020, 09:33:21 AM

I am very much struggling this morning to see anything but unbelievable doom.

The unemployment numbers are going to be absolutely staggering.  Sec. Mnuchin suggested 20% unemployment without massive govt intervention.   I don't have a lot of faith in that .. it'll help, no doubt, but .. the economic impact is just so far reaching, so quick.  People aren't going to use their $1000 to buy a car, they're going to be scared and hoard it for food. 

Seeing the "suppression" line graphs .. the peaks and waves go on forever until the population is immunized.   That's a full 12-18-24 months of economic devastation, with no one building homes, buying cars, travelling.   

Someone talk me out of it, but I can't shake the idea that the probability of a global great depression is extremely high.

I'll balance this.  Firms are trying to do what they can to make this temporary for the workforce versus other recessions.  I.e. Marriott keeping health benefits but furloughing.  Blunting the impact as we all hunker down, focus on our families and work inefficiently from home.  We all want a consumer when this is done.

Scientist all over the world are working on therapy & vaccine.  They will figure it out.  We just need to buy them & our healthcare workers some time.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 18, 2020, 10:21:29 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 18, 2020, 10:18:35 AM

For the record - I understand.  I should choose my words more carefully.  But my point remains - why have only 27k been tested if 75k tests are available and lots more are coming online?  I think part of it is that that labs can't process them fast enough - but as Goooo points out, processing capability is increasing daily. 

At this point the fact that only those at high risk or in hospitals can get tested is a f*cking failure.

Plus anyone can get it if they have money.  We are not currently allocating resources correctly yet

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 18, 2020, 10:22:45 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 18, 2020, 10:13:08 AM

Then you are going to have bank liquidity issues, which may make things substantially worse.  Many people aren't going to have trouble making payments in the short term.  Including myself.  There is zero reason why people like me shouldn't pay their mortgage payments, etc.

It would be much better to give people money from the federal government, because they have the liquidity to manage it.  And if it has to be more than what they are talking, then it will be more.

"Many" people aren't going to have trouble making payments? I think that is vastly overstated.

Not sure about the banking aspect.

But I still feel that everything needs a pause button for up to 3 months.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 18, 2020, 10:25:47 AM

One of the various drugs being tested.  Sounds this would be similar to Tamiflu in that you'd need to get it very early to be most effective.

Japanese flu drug 'clearly effective' in treating coronavirus, says China
Medical authorities in China have said a drug used in Japan to treat new strains of influenza appeared to be effective in coronavirus patients, Japanese media said on Wednesday.

snip

Patients who were given the medicine in Shenzhen turned negative for the virus after a median of four days after becoming positive, compared with a median of 11 days for those who were not treated with the drug, public broadcaster NHK said.
In addition, X-rays confirmed improvements in lung condition in about 91% of the patients who were treated with favipiravir, compared to 62% or those without the drug.

snip

But a Japanese health ministry source suggested the drug was not as effective in people with more severe symptoms. “We’ve given Avigan to 70 to 80 people, but it doesn’t seem to work that well when the virus has already multiplied,” the source told the Mainichi Shimbun.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/18/japanese-flu-drug-clearly-effective-in-treating-coronavirus-says-china

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: lawdog77 on March 18, 2020, 10:31:46 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 18, 2020, 10:13:08 AM

 Many people aren't going to have trouble making payments in the short term

According to CNBC-Nearly 80 percent of American workers (78 percent) say they're living paycheck to paycheck,

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 18, 2020, 10:35:43 AM

Quote from: lawdog77 on March 18, 2020, 10:31:46 AM

According to CNBC-Nearly 80 percent of American workers (78 percent) say they're living paycheck to paycheck,

Right. But many of those have regular paychecks, and the next couple months aren't going to change that in the short term.

Regardless, the best way to combat this is for the feds to give people $$$.  Not for the feds to mandate that banks not collect payments.  Banks need those payments to make loans, extend credit, etc. which a lot of small businesses will need in the short term.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 18, 2020, 10:37:51 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 18, 2020, 10:22:45 AM

"Many" people aren't going to have trouble making payments? I think that is vastly overstated.

Not sure about the banking aspect.

But I still feel that everything needs a pause button for up to 3 months.

Ah, so you're advocating for communism, komrade?  ;)

Of course, this is a joke.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on March 18, 2020, 10:39:24 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 18, 2020, 10:22:45 AM

"Many" people aren't going to have trouble making payments? I think that is vastly overstated.

Not sure about the banking aspect.

But I still feel that everything needs a pause button for up to 3 months.

I dont care if mortgage payments are deferred or if people get $1000-2000 a month.  This will wipe out so many small to medium sized businesses.  Regardless if they get a small bridge financing or not. This just coming from the perspective of a small business stakeholder.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 18, 2020, 10:40:05 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 18, 2020, 10:18:35 AM

For the record - I understand.  I should choose my words more carefully.  But my point remains - why have only 27k been tested if 75k tests are available and lots more are coming online?  I think part of it is that that labs can't process them fast enough - but as Goooo points out, processing capability is increasing daily. 

At this point the fact that only those at high risk or in hospitals can get tested is a f*cking failure.

Understand that this is still evolving. Real people have to perform these tests. Real people who are part of the testing process can get sick too. Too label this as a “ complete facking failure” is short sighted  is an understatement.  I think all of those who can  help, want to help because we are all in this. The successes of this aren’t for a few

The “failure” here lies with the Chinese period.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 18, 2020, 10:41:35 AM

Quote from: lawdog77 on March 18, 2020, 10:31:46 AM

According to CNBC-Nearly 80 percent of American workers (78 percent) say they're living paycheck to paycheck,

So you're saying people have problems budgeting their money?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 18, 2020, 10:42:44 AM

nm

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 18, 2020, 10:49:18 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 18, 2020, 10:40:05 AM

Too label this as a “ complete facking failure” is short sighted

No it's not.

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 18, 2020, 10:40:05 AM

I think all of those who can  help, want to help because we are all in this. The successes of this aren’t for a few

This I think I understand *way* better than you.  Healthcare workers would love to give people testing and give them the peace of mind that they're either "fine" or need to quarantine.    BUT THEY CAN'T!  Are being told not to test people.  That's causing fear.

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 18, 2020, 10:40:05 AM

The “failure” here lies with the Chinese period.

The blame lies with the Chinese.  However, they were very successful at squashing it once they realized what was happening.

To all the "it's overreaction" people.  Understand - this spreads *very easily* once it's inside your circle of trust.  Look at the MA Biogen conference.  Look at the NBA.  This is why isolation is important.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 18, 2020, 10:57:25 AM

Quote from: lawdog77 on March 18, 2020, 10:31:46 AM

According to CNBC-Nearly 80 percent of American workers (78 percent) say they're living paycheck to paycheck,

That’s explains why we give tax breaks to millionaires / billionaires.  :-\

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 18, 2020, 11:02:42 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 18, 2020, 10:41:35 AM

So you're saying people have problems budgeting their money?

People making $20,000 - $40,000 don’t have the luxury to “budget” their money.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: lawdog77 on March 18, 2020, 11:03:58 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 18, 2020, 10:41:35 AM

So you're saying people have problems budgeting their money?

That's a whole different subject. Fault can be given to many different sides on that. Predatory lending by credit cards, "minimum" wage, lack of fiscal education in high schools, mentality of having shiny things..

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on March 18, 2020, 11:08:18 AM

Quote from: MUfan12 on March 18, 2020, 09:38:19 AM

We're struggling with this as well. We send our daughter to MU's center, and there's maybe a third of the kids still there. They're still open until the University closes. So while the risk is still there, it's not as populated as it usually is.

I'm in the same situation, both remote, but she's busier. I just don't see us being productive trying to keep the little one entertained all day. Even Frozen only keeps her attention for about 10 minutes.

I don't know what the right answer is, honestly. I don't feel great about either one.

Thanks for the opinion, good to hear others in the same situation.

I think we may go through this week and then call it. Worried about the lack of socialization mostly, and then my own over-saturation of children.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 18, 2020, 11:15:03 AM

It doesn't give me confidence that Trump is being above board when he continues to use phrases like "the Chinese virus."  If he wants people to feel that the response isn't politicized, he needs to stop with that kind of stuff.  It's not helpful in any way.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Sir Lawrence on March 18, 2020, 11:29:05 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 18, 2020, 11:15:03 AM

It doesn't give me confidence that Trump is being above board when he continues to use phrases like "the Chinese virus."  If he wants people to feel that the response isn't politicized, he needs to stop with that kind of stuff.  It's not helpful in any way.

I know things are different with this cat, but we've identified diseases by geographic origin for a long time now.  The Ebola virus was named after a river near its origin in the Democratic Republic of Congo.   Zika: the Ziika Forest of Uganda. Except for the Spanish flu.  That actually probably started in.....China.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on March 18, 2020, 11:32:04 AM

At least he didn't call it the Kung Flu?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 18, 2020, 11:37:07 AM

Quote from: Sir Lawrence on March 18, 2020, 11:29:05 AM

I know things are different with this cat, but we've identified diseases by geographic origin for a long time now.  The Ebola virus was named after a river near its origin in the Democratic Republic of Congo.   Zika: the Ziika Forest of Uganda. Except for the Spanish flu.  That actually probably started in.....China.   

I get that.  But its not know by that anywhere else but the White House and his media lapdogs.  CDC, WHO and every other media organization is calling it something else.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on March 18, 2020, 11:43:43 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 18, 2020, 11:37:07 AM

I get that.  But its not know by that anywhere else but the White House and his media lapdogs.  CDC, WHO and every other media organization is calling it something else.

WHO was calling it the Wuhan Virus or Wuhan Flu and people were spazzing about that too

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 18, 2020, 11:46:51 AM

I have zero doubt that those labeling it the "China" flu or virus are doing so to cast blame and deflect criticism from the domestic response.
I also have zero doubt that this is just about the least important issue to fret over right now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 18, 2020, 11:50:15 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 18, 2020, 11:46:51 AM

I have zero doubt that those labeling it the "China" flu or virus are doing so to cast blame and deflect criticism from the domestic response.
I also have zero doubt that this is just about the least important issue to fret over right now.

You are correct on both counts.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 18, 2020, 11:57:47 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 18, 2020, 11:50:15 AM

You are correct on both counts.

Yup, was surprised that one got you on a tangent!  :)  Stay focused fluffy!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Golden Avalanche on March 18, 2020, 11:58:27 AM

Quote from: MUfan12 on March 18, 2020, 11:32:04 AM

At least he didn't call it the Kung Flu?

That only occurs off camera.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 18, 2020, 12:00:47 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 18, 2020, 11:57:47 AM

Yup, was surprised that one got you on a tangent!  :)  Stay focused fluffy!

Literally 95% of my working day is spent dealing with this unnatural carnal knowledgeing virus.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 18, 2020, 12:46:04 PM

Edit: Trump talk in the link. If you don't want to read, don't click

https://twitter.com/DLeonhardt/status/1240289577849573381?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mr. Nielsen on March 18, 2020, 12:51:54 PM

(http://media2.giphy.com/media/11MaSmjZDwnzSU/giphy.gif)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Keithtisbarf on March 18, 2020, 12:56:27 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 18, 2020, 11:46:51 AM

I have zero doubt that those labeling it the "China" flu or virus are doing so to cast blame and deflect criticism from the domestic response.
I also have zero doubt that this is just about the least important issue to fret over right now.

When the virus was only in China I imagine all asians in America faced some racial profiling. If I was Chinese I would be afraid of being attacked if I went out today.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on March 18, 2020, 01:04:59 PM

Quote from: Keithtisbarf on March 18, 2020, 12:56:27 PM

If I was Chinese I would be afraid of being attacked if I went out today.

 Seriously? ::)  Come on man.

I have 3 Chinese coworkers, one even based in the Deep South, and the only thing they've gotten asked if if they had visited China recently and/or if their family there was ok.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Keithtisbarf on March 18, 2020, 01:21:23 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on March 18, 2020, 01:04:59 PM

Seriously? ::)  Come on man.

I have 3 Chinese coworkers, one even based in the Deep South, and the only thing they've gotten asked if if they had visited China recently and/or if their family there was ok.

I would be completely on edge if I was Chinese, or looked Chinese, just being honest.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 18, 2020, 01:23:08 PM

Quote from: Keithtisbarf on March 18, 2020, 12:56:27 PM

When the virus was only in China I imagine all asians in America faced some racial profiling. If I was Chinese I would be afraid of being attacked if I went out today.

Funny you should say this because I have a couple friends from Ireland who are teaching in Vietnam right now and they're getting verbally abused. According to one of them the locals are blaming westerners for this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 18, 2020, 01:24:53 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on March 18, 2020, 01:04:59 PM

Seriously? ::)  Come on man.

I have 3 Chinese coworkers, one even based in the Deep South, and the only thing they've gotten asked if if they had visited China recently and/or if their family there was ok.

A few weeks people were not eating at Chinese restaurants and visits to various city Chinatowns were way down.
The Connecticut governor and Attorney General (who is Chinese-American, last name Tong) went out to dinner together at a Chinese restaurant as a show of support.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 18, 2020, 01:55:04 PM

Interesting thread on increasing ventilator manufacturing:

https://twitter.com/CitizenCohn/status/1240262582780473347?s=20

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on March 18, 2020, 01:59:55 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 18, 2020, 01:24:53 PM

A few weeks people were not eating at Chinese restaurants and visits to various city Chinatowns were way down.
The Connecticut governor and Attorney General (who is Chinese-American, last name Tong) went out to dinner together at a Chinese restaurant as a show of support.

There is a difference between some xenophobic avoidance of people who they think were home for Chinese New Year, were exposed, etc... and physically assaulting and attacking individuals of Chinese/Asian descent in the street.  The former is a tad ignorant, the latter is a stretch that borders on urban legend.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on March 18, 2020, 02:04:54 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 18, 2020, 10:18:35 AM

For the record - I understand.  I should choose my words more carefully.  But my point remains - why have only 27k been tested if 75k tests are available and lots more are coming online?  I think part of it is that that labs can't process them fast enough - but as Goooo points out, processing capability is increasing daily. 

At this point the fact that only those at high risk or in hospitals can get tested is a f*cking failure.

I agree. Hanlon's razor.  And that is as much of a "defense" of the President as I can muster on  this issue at this time.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 18, 2020, 02:07:53 PM

I saw these ideas stated by Elizabeth Warren on minimum conditions for any industry bailout.
(And for crying out loud, please don't go nuts because it's Elizabeth Warren stating them.)
Sounded like many of the statements mirrored earlier Scoop comments.

We’re not writing blank checks to giant corporations. Any taxpayer dollars that go to help big businesses during the coronavirus crisis should come with the following minimum requirements:
1. Companies must maintain their payrolls and use funds to keep people working or on payroll.
2. Companies must provide a $15 minimum wage within one year of the national emergency declaration ending.
3. Companies are permanently prohibited from engaging in share repurchases.
4. Companies are prohibited from paying out dividends or executive bonuses while they are receiving any relief and for three years thereafter.
5. Companies must set aside at least one seat – but potentially two or more, as the amount of relief increases – on the board of directors for representatives elected by workers.
6. Collective bargaining agreements should remain in place and should not be reopened or renegotiated pursuant to this relief program.
7. Corporations must obtain shareholder and board approval for all political expenditures.
8. CEOs must be required to personally certify a company is in compliance and face criminal penalties for false certifications.
Congress must set up an oversight body, modeled on the Congressional Oversight Panel and the SIGTARP program for the bank bailout, but with real funding & subpoena power. We need real accountability to make sure these conditions are met.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 18, 2020, 02:10:36 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 18, 2020, 02:07:53 PM

I saw these ideas stated by Elizabeth Warren on minimum conditions for any industry bailout.
(And for crying out loud, please don't go nuts because it's Elizabeth Warren stating them.)
Sounded like many of the statements mirrored earlier Scoop comments.

We’re not writing blank checks to giant corporations. Any taxpayer dollars that go to help big businesses during the coronavirus crisis should come with the following minimum requirements:
1. Companies must maintain their payrolls and use funds to keep people working or on payroll.
2. Companies must provide a $15 minimum wage within one year of the national emergency declaration ending.
3. Companies are permanently prohibited from engaging in share repurchases.
4. Companies are prohibited from paying out dividends or executive bonuses while they are receiving any relief and for three years thereafter.
5. Companies must set aside at least one seat – but potentially two or more, as the amount of relief increases – on the board of directors for representatives elected by workers.
6. Collective bargaining agreements should remain in place and should not be reopened or renegotiated pursuant to this relief program.
7. Corporations must obtain shareholder and board approval for all political expenditures.
8. CEOs must be required to personally certify a company is in compliance and face criminal penalties for false certifications.
Congress must set up an oversight body, modeled on the Congressional Oversight Panel and the SIGTARP program for the bank bailout, but with real funding & subpoena power. We need real accountability to make sure these conditions are met.

I don't disagree with many of these, but I don't see many people agreeing with it

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 18, 2020, 02:21:28 PM

Wuhan flu ain't nothin to f#ck with.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on March 18, 2020, 02:23:21 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 18, 2020, 01:24:53 PM

A few weeks people were not eating at Chinese restaurants and visits to various city Chinatowns were way down.
The Connecticut governor and Attorney General (who is Chinese-American, last name Tong) went out to dinner together at a Chinese restaurant as a show of support.

I have stopped visiting the Chinese restaurant I used to eat at once every week or two, but only because I went there for the buffet. But then again, I've also stopped visiting the salad bar that I visited 90% of the other days.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on March 18, 2020, 02:32:21 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 18, 2020, 01:24:53 PM

A few weeks people were not eating at Chinese restaurants and visits to various city Chinatowns were way down.
The Connecticut governor and Attorney General (who is Chinese-American, last name Tong) went out to dinner together at a Chinese restaurant as a show of support.

Some people.  Broad aspersions one way are not offset with broad aspersions the other way.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on March 18, 2020, 02:33:26 PM

Just finished doing a 45-minute presentation call regarding COVID-19 issues for employers. Sadly, if the last couple days is any indication, much of it is already outdated.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on March 18, 2020, 02:33:47 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 18, 2020, 02:21:28 PM

Wuhan flu ain't nothin to f#ck with.

You sir. You.

Well done.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on March 18, 2020, 02:39:24 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 18, 2020, 10:18:35 AM

For the record - I understand.  I should choose my words more carefully.  But my point remains - why have only 27k been tested if 75k tests are available and lots more are coming online?  I think part of it is that that labs can't process them fast enough - but as Goooo points out, processing capability is increasing daily. 

At this point the fact that only those at high risk or in hospitals can get tested is a f*cking failure.

As I understand it from CNN, the tests that WHO put out are causing 47% false positives.  The CDC developed their own test which was much more accurate, but had a manufacturing defect.  Are you suggesting we should have pushed a test out that was wrong half the time?  Who would we blame then?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Keithtisbarf on March 18, 2020, 02:41:30 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on March 18, 2020, 01:59:55 PM

There is a difference between some xenophobic avoidance of people who they think were home for Chinese New Year, were exposed, etc... and physically assaulting and attacking individuals of Chinese/Asian descent in the street.  The former is a tad ignorant, the latter is a stretch that borders on urban legend.

Just because you haven’t seen it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. I’m white and don’t have any idea what a Chinese person feels like, but I can think about how I would feel if I were an Asian. I would feel like everyone thinks I have Covid-19, and I would be scared to be in public.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on March 18, 2020, 02:43:14 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 18, 2020, 10:49:18 AM

No it's not.

This I think I understand *way* better than you.  Healthcare workers would love to give people testing and give them the peace of mind that they're either "fine" or need to quarantine.    BUT THEY CAN'T!  Are being told not to test people.  That's causing fear.

The blame lies with the Chinese.  However, they were very successful at squashing it once they realized what was happening.

To all the "it's overreaction" people.  Understand - this spreads *very easily* once it's inside your circle of trust.  Look at the MA Biogen conference.  Look at the NBA.  This is why isolation is important.

You believe the Chinese data?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: BM1090 on March 18, 2020, 03:06:28 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on March 18, 2020, 02:43:14 PM

You believe the Chinese data?

I don't. But I don't really believe a lot of the "data" our country puts out either.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 18, 2020, 03:09:05 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on March 18, 2020, 02:39:24 PM

As I understand it from CNN, the tests that WHO put out are causing 47% false positives.  The CDC developed their own test which was much more accurate, but had a manufacturing defect.  Are you suggesting we should have pushed a test out that was wrong half the time?  Who would we blame then?

I'm suggesting that 75k tests is inadequate.  I'm also suggesting those 75k tests should already be processed, and 150k more should already be shipped to providers.

And maybe you should up your knowledge from CNN...lol...that was a good line WD.
https://www.modernhealthcare.com/politics-policy/covid-19-testing-delays-shine-light-lab-developed-test-regulation-debate

Some of you have very low expectations for the greatest country in the world...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 18, 2020, 03:24:49 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 18, 2020, 03:09:05 PM

I'm suggesting that 75k tests is inadequate.  I'm also suggesting those 75k tests should already be processed, and 150k more should already be shipped to providers.

And maybe you should up your knowledge from CNN...lol...that was a good line WD.
https://www.modernhealthcare.com/politics-policy/covid-19-testing-delays-shine-light-lab-developed-test-regulation-debate

Some of you have very low expectations for the greatest country in the world...

Testing is woefully inadequate, I've seen multiple reports of people only being tested after they are dead. That means they were spreading this in and out of the hospital, and none of their contacts could be traced or warned, until after they died from this.

That is criminally negligent on the testing side.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on March 18, 2020, 03:26:21 PM

Using worldinfometers.info to track new cases.  Lots of data footnotes but it's the best available and the caveats are throughout this.

The first places to go to shelter in place have significantly slowed the rate of new cases:  The Bay Area, Washington, Massachusetts, Virginia and North Carolina are slowing this sucker down.  This is very good news to hear and monitor.

MN at national growth rate. The rest of the country get on it quick. IL and WI just updated and spiked.

NY/NJ, Florida:  Wake the eff up!  Way too late with the shut downs.

As to the politics, the USA is a republic. The governors and mayors have most of the power and responsibility. Two on the West Coast have been outstanding. NY is a shyt show. Put the blame down on all sides and get the job done. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 18, 2020, 03:33:44 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 18, 2020, 03:09:05 PM

Some of you have very low expectations for the greatest country in the world...

Yeah, but at least we expect Marquette to contend for Big East basketball titles. First things first!

Our county just ordered all gyms, health clubs and theaters to close; that goes along with the state closing all restaurants (except for take-out service) and bars. All big malls have announced they are closing.

County officials are considering enacting a shelter-in-place order similar to what San Fran has. I wouldn't like that, of course, but I'd comply.

I get together with a group of guys most Thursdays to drink craft beer at a local establishment. I was out of town and missed the last few, and we can't go to that place tomorrow because it's closed. So we're gonna get together at my house, BYOB. Social distancing policies will be in place!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on March 18, 2020, 03:42:11 PM

Quote from: Keithtisbarf on March 18, 2020, 02:41:30 PM

Just because you haven’t seen it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. I’m white and don’t have any idea what a Chinese person feels like, but I can think about how I would feel if I were an Asian. I would feel like everyone thinks I have Covid-19, and I would be scared to be in public.

I believe in empathy. But I think yo’ve gone off the deep end on this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 18, 2020, 03:55:07 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 18, 2020, 11:02:42 AM

People making $20,000 - $40,000 don’t have the luxury to “budget” their money.

Depends on the person.  I have several employees that pull 50k+ and live alone and have no car payment.  I can't fathom what they are blowing their cash on. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on March 18, 2020, 03:57:31 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 18, 2020, 03:55:07 PM

Depends on the person.  I have several employees that pull 50k+ and live alone and have no car payment.  I can't fathom what they are blowing their cash on.

Boats and hoes?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: DegenerateDish on March 18, 2020, 03:59:13 PM

This is fluid, but have been told Lightfoot is going to announce Shelter in Place for Chicago tomorrow. To be clear, hearing the announcement is coming tomorrow, no info as to when it would start. To be transparent I where I got the info, my wife works for a community college in Cook County, she's the VP of her union, and she just got off a call that was the directive forthcoming. She also said that the state colleges were going to announce that the next three Friday's are going to be earmarked as holidays, so no work from home those days.

My hunch is that Pritzker will maybe be the one that ends up making the announcement, with broader coverage of the Shelter In Place.

Also to be transparent, my sister (works for state of Arizona) said earlier this week that she was being told a national shutdown was to happen by today, so that did not come to happen. I don't want to share $hitty rumors, and I trust my wife/sister, so you can yell at me if when these things don't happen.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 18, 2020, 04:00:17 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 18, 2020, 02:07:53 PM

I saw these ideas stated by Elizabeth Warren on minimum conditions for any industry bailout.
(And for crying out loud, please don't go nuts because it's Elizabeth Warren stating them.)
Sounded like many of the statements mirrored earlier Scoop comments.

We’re not writing blank checks to giant corporations. Any taxpayer dollars that go to help big businesses during the coronavirus crisis should come with the following minimum requirements:
1. Companies must maintain their payrolls and use funds to keep people working or on payroll.
2. Companies must provide a $15 minimum wage within one year of the national emergency declaration ending.
3. Companies are permanently prohibited from engaging in share repurchases.
4. Companies are prohibited from paying out dividends or executive bonuses while they are receiving any relief and for three years thereafter.
5. Companies must set aside at least one seat – but potentially two or more, as the amount of relief increases – on the board of directors for representatives elected by workers.
6. Collective bargaining agreements should remain in place and should not be reopened or renegotiated pursuant to this relief program.
7. Corporations must obtain shareholder and board approval for all political expenditures.
8. CEOs must be required to personally certify a company is in compliance and face criminal penalties for false certifications.
Congress must set up an oversight body, modeled on the Congressional Oversight Panel and the SIGTARP program for the bank bailout, but with real funding & subpoena power. We need real accountability to make sure these conditions are met.

The only one with which I disagree is the prohibition of paying out dividends. For any stock that has a long history of dividend payouts (and especially the "dividend aristocrats"), the expectation of a dividend is priced into the stock. Thus, if that measure is approved, you are going to see strong dividend stocks (AT&T, MSFT and the like) take an additional hit. 

I would agree if they prohibited increasing dividends, but an all out prohibition of even existing levels would essentially be legislating a decrease in stock price, and disproportionately penalize those stockholders that buy dividend stocks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 18, 2020, 04:02:06 PM

I'm working my way through the Imperial College study. A few interesting pieces have stood out so far. Anything not in quotes is my reaction to the quotes.

"Stopping mass gatherings is predicted to have relatively little impact (results not shown) because the contact-time at such events is relatively small compared to the time spent at home, in schools or workplaces and in other community locations such as bars and restaurants."

Please, Lord, let me attend at least 1 sporting event in the next 18 months. Someone put this on a billboard. In all seriousness, though, this does make me feel better about going to the grocery store and running errands. It also gives me hope that there may be a way to allow certain small businesses to remain open if this truly stretches on for more than a year.

"Once interventions are relaxed, infections begin to rise, resulting in a predicted peak epidemic later in the year. The more successful a strategy is at temporary suppression, the larger the later epidemic is predicted to be in the absence of vaccination, due to lesser build-up of herd immunity."

The reasoning for this is still not clear to me. China seems to be getting back to "normal" but the model here doesn't see that as being likely to be true for long. I would love to get more clarity on this.

"To avoid a rebound in transmission, these policies will need to be maintained until large stocks of vaccine are available to immunise the population – which could be 18 months or more."

"Given local epidemics are not perfectly synchronised, local policies are also more efficient and can achieve comparable levels of suppression to national policies while being in force for a slightly smaller proportion of the time"

This helps support some of what we've seen from individual states lately. We may not need a uniform national plan to slow the spread of infections. I'd take that as relatively good news in the sense that we may not see a full national lockdown like Italy.

"The WHO China Joint Mission Report suggested that 80% of transmission occurred in the household, although this was in a context where interpersonal contacts were drastically reduced by the interventions put in place. Social distancing of high-risk groups is predicted to be particularly effective at reducing severe outcomes given the strong evidence of an increased risk with age though we predict it would have less effect in reducing population transmission."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: lawdog77 on March 18, 2020, 04:07:30 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 18, 2020, 02:21:28 PM

Wuhan flu ain't nothin to f#ck with.

Maybe the Spanish Odonnell's can make a cover version of this. <throwing myself off the roof of my house>

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 18, 2020, 04:11:17 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 18, 2020, 04:00:17 PM

The only one with which I disagree is the prohibition of paying out dividends. For any stock that has a long history of dividend payouts (and especially the "dividend aristocrats"), the expectation of a dividend is priced into the stock. Thus, if that measure is approved, you are going to see strong dividend stocks (AT&T, MSFT and the like) take an additional hit. 

I would agree if they prohibited increasing dividends, but an all out prohibition of even existing levels would essentially be legislating a decrease in stock price, and disproportionately penalize those stockholders that buy dividend stocks.

I had the same thought, Goooooooooooooooooo.

I can maybe see not letting them pay dividends while actually receiving aid, but I don't see why they couldn't resume after that period ends.

Other than that, it's hard for me to argue with any of this from Warren. These shouldn't be gifts, shouldn't be corporate welfare. We taxpayers should get bang for our bucks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Goose on March 18, 2020, 04:33:15 PM

Per our lead China staff, the Chinese government are advising the population to limit big parties, overcrowding bars and restaurants and social distancing as much as possible. Nothing new there, but they are telling citizens to plan on this type of daily restrictions for up to 12-18 months. Like everyone, they are saying this new normal until vaccine is available.
I firmly believe that things are better in China than a month ago and their challenges were bigger than our situation. Large population, tight living space and lack of respect of social space made this difficult. Granted, they made some lockdown conditions but the cat was really out of the bag prior to that decision.
All that said, I am confident that we will return to some sort of normalcy in 4-5 weeks. I am a cynic by nature, but my family is trying our best to follow guidelines. I am keeping eye on China far closer than Europe and believe there are mildly encouraging signs.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: vogue65 on March 18, 2020, 04:42:26 PM

Triage in Bergamo
X-ray to determine condition of lungs.
Then you wait in line.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on March 18, 2020, 04:57:36 PM

Quote from: reinko on March 18, 2020, 03:57:31 PM

Boats and hoes?

Yes, and they probably waste the rest.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 18, 2020, 04:58:51 PM

Quote from: Goose on March 18, 2020, 04:33:15 PM

Per our lead China staff, the Chinese government are advising the population to limit big parties, overcrowding bars and restaurants and social distancing as much as possible. Nothing new there, but they are telling citizens to plan on this type of daily restrictions for up to 12-18 months. Like everyone, they are saying this new normal until vaccine is available.
I firmly believe that things are better in China than a month ago and their challenges were bigger than our situation. Large population, tight living space and lack of respect of social space made this difficult. Granted, they made some lockdown conditions but the cat was really out of the bag prior to that decision.
All that said, I am confident that we will return to some sort of normalcy in 4-5 weeks. I am a cynic by nature, but my family is trying our best to follow guidelines. I am keeping eye on China far closer than Europe and believe there are mildly encouraging signs.

I am certain they have stopped reporting cases and deaths but this plus the factory utilization’s show these efforts work.  They worked in Singapore and Korea too. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 18, 2020, 05:02:50 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on March 18, 2020, 02:39:24 PM

As I understand it from CNN, the tests that WHO put out are causing 47% false positives.  The CDC developed their own test which was much more accurate, but had a manufacturing defect.  Are you suggesting we should have pushed a test out that was wrong half the time?  Who would we blame then?

The evil orange man.  Duh.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 18, 2020, 05:06:16 PM

Quote from: MU82 on March 18, 2020, 04:11:17 PM

I had the same thought, Goooooooooooooooooo.

I can maybe see not letting them pay dividends while actually receiving aid, but I don't see why they couldn't resume after that period ends.

Other than that, it's hard for me to argue with any of this from Warren. These shouldn't be gifts, shouldn't be corporate welfare. We taxpayers should get bang for our bucks.

I have issues with 2 (backdoor path to national minimum wage increase) and 3(permanent?? I get a moratorium on it for a period but stock repurchasing is a very legitimate practice)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 18, 2020, 05:15:58 PM

Quote from: MUDish on March 18, 2020, 03:59:13 PM

This is fluid, but have been told Lightfoot is going to announce Shelter in Place for Chicago tomorrow. To be clear, hearing the announcement is coming tomorrow, no info as to when it would start. To be transparent I where I got the info, my wife works for a community college in Cook County, she's the VP of her union, and she just got off a call that was the directive forthcoming. She also said that the state colleges were going to announce that the next three Friday's are going to be earmarked as holidays, so no work from home those days.

My hunch is that Pritzker will maybe be the one that ends up making the announcement, with broader coverage of the Shelter In Place.

Also to be transparent, my sister (works for state of Arizona) said earlier this week that she was being told a national shutdown was to happen by today, so that did not come to happen. I don't want to share $hitty rumors, and I trust my wife/sister, so you can yell at me if when these things don't happen.

JB at his daily news briefing today said there are no current plans for more restrictive measures.
Assuming JB's not pulling the wool over everyone's eyes so this can happen at the end of the work week, a shelter in place order from the state looks unlikely at the moment.
But as you note, things are fluid and can change quickly.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 18, 2020, 05:18:00 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 18, 2020, 05:06:16 PM

I have issues with 2 (backdoor path to national minimum wage increase) and 3(permanent?? I get a moratorium on it for a period but stock repurchasing is a very legitimate practice)

I’m torn.  It is a legitimate practice but if you haven’t funded your company to survive through the cycles then you shouldn’t have done it.  Equity is permanent capital. Let’s remember Boeing is in this situation because they let an unsafe plane fly.  Stretched the leverage on the balance sheet (on heels of buybacks before) - then hit maybe the mother of all recessions.  Only the third one wasn’t self inflicted. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 18, 2020, 05:19:42 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 18, 2020, 05:02:50 PM

The evil orange man.  Duh.

Usual suspect going this route.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 18, 2020, 05:20:17 PM

As for "China getting back to normal..."

https://time.com/5804136/china-coronavirus-quarantine-new-normal/ (https://time.com/5804136/china-coronavirus-quarantine-new-normal/)

Life in China Has Not Returned to Normal, Despite What the Government Says

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 18, 2020, 05:22:34 PM

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedman/2020/03/17/student-loans-cuomo/amp/

First of many to take this step?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on March 18, 2020, 05:29:31 PM

This changes by the minute as the data is fluid but NY cases up at least 1300 today or 78% from yesterday.  The governor and mayor are feuding about shelter in place. The total US is up 40% from yesterday (testing, spread).

NY/NJ are almost 60% of the new cases. NY's new cases just today (1331) are now much more than California's total cases to date (831). Think about that.

Meanwhile, California up only 17% today, Washington 6%, Mass 17%, Oregon 14%, Colorado 2% (but may not be fully updated), Virginia 16%, North Carolina 14%.  These were the early states who got on this and whose growth rates were higher.  The lockdown Bay Area went from a 21% yesterday to 14% rate today on Day 2.

Illinois just reported a 78% jump from yesterday and Wisconsin a 48% jump. Minnesota up 26%.  Much of this is testing availability so don't panic but looking at rates from day to day gives us indicators of trends.

The early hot spots are settling down like China and South Korea...buying time.  Let's slow this thing and get back to (a new) normalcy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 18, 2020, 05:34:03 PM

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 18, 2020, 05:29:31 PM

Illinois just reported a 78% jump from yesterday

The notable (scary?) thing happening in Illinois is that 20 of the 128 new cases announced today come from the same nursing home ... which had 22 news cases confirmed Tuesday. So, nearly 15 percent of all the cases in Illinois stem from a single facility.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on March 18, 2020, 05:51:28 PM

Daycares are being limited to "essential" kids tomorrow.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: DegenerateDish on March 18, 2020, 05:58:33 PM

Oak Park just got SIP (Shelter in Place), effective starting Friday. My guess is what my wife heard this afternoon was true, and places like Oak Park are getting out ahead of it. Towns like Oak Park, Evanston were/are going to be on a weird spot if Chicago goes SIP, so I’m not surprised Oak Park is being pro-active here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 18, 2020, 06:06:34 PM

Quote from: MUDish on March 18, 2020, 05:58:33 PM

Oak Park just got SIP (Shelter in Place), effective starting Friday. My guess is what my wife heard this afternoon was true, and places like Oak Park are getting out ahead of it. Towns like Oak Park, Evanston were/are going to be on a weird spot if Chicago goes SIP, so I’m not surprised Oak Park is being pro-active here.

Reading their shelter in place, it's fairly meaningless. It merely "urges" residents to stay home - which is what everybody's been doing all week - and excludes many, many exceptions, to wit:
 
Grocery stores, banks, convenience stores, pharmacies, restaurants for delivery and pick up only, laundromats, skilled trades essential to maintaining the safety and sanitation of residences, hardware stores, medical service providers, first responders, transportation providers, government activities and essential social service providers and shelters.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 18, 2020, 06:06:54 PM

Quote from: MUDish on March 18, 2020, 05:58:33 PM

Oak Park just got SIP (Shelter in Place), effective starting Friday. My guess is what my wife heard this afternoon was true, and places like Oak Park are getting out ahead of it. Towns like Oak Park, Evanston were/are going to be on a weird spot if Chicago goes SIP, so I’m not surprised Oak Park is being pro-active here.

Where'd you see that? I saw Oak Park, River Forest and Forest Park leaders met and "urged shelter in place" but I didn't see an official order?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 18, 2020, 06:08:22 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 18, 2020, 06:06:34 PM

Reading their shelter in place, it's fairly meaningless. It merely "urges" residents to stay home - which is what everybody's been doing all week - and excludes many, many exceptions, to wit:
 
Grocery stores, banks, convenience stores, pharmacies, restaurants for delivery and pick up only, laundromats, skilled trades essential to maintaining the safety and sanitation of residences, hardware stores, medical service providers, first responders, transportation providers, government activities and essential social service providers and shelters.

You'd be surprised how many kids have been outside playing and teens out for runs. Not exactly shut down.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on March 18, 2020, 06:09:38 PM

MMAC sent a memo out today on this in conjunction with MCW. Biggest takeaway was that they don't expect it to peak in WI until late May.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: DegenerateDish on March 18, 2020, 06:11:02 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 18, 2020, 06:06:34 PM

Reading their shelter in place, it's fairly meaningless. It merely "urges" residents to stay home - which is what everybody's been doing all week - and excludes many, many exceptions, to wit:
 
Grocery stores, banks, convenience stores, pharmacies, restaurants for delivery and pick up only, laundromats, skilled trades essential to maintaining the safety and sanitation of residences, hardware stores, medical service providers, first responders, transportation providers, government activities and essential social service providers and shelters.

Yeah, I was just talking to my wife, I don’t really know what SIP enforces, and agree we’re all kind of already doing it. A curfew would be different and enforceable. I don’t really get SIP as being something 90% of people aren’t already doing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: DegenerateDish on March 18, 2020, 06:13:41 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 18, 2020, 06:06:54 PM

Where'd you see that? I saw Oak Park, River Forest and Forest Park leaders met and "urged shelter in place" but I didn't see an official order?

Typing this on my phone, but the town’s official Twitter page has it as a declaration by their mayor.

The town website crashed, otherwise I’d link it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 18, 2020, 06:14:09 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 18, 2020, 06:08:22 PM

You'd be surprised how many kids have been outside playing and teens out for runs. Not exactly shut down.

Going outside or for a run is not prohibited by a shelter in place.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 18, 2020, 06:42:01 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 18, 2020, 06:14:09 PM

Going outside or for a run is not prohibited by a shelter in place.

Interesting thanks for the knowledge, that gives me something to do tomorrow :)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 18, 2020, 06:51:06 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 18, 2020, 06:14:09 PM

Going outside or for a run is not prohibited by a shelter in place.

This reminds me .. MKE county closed golf and frisbee golf courses.    That seems over the top.   You can easily maintain 6 feet, not to mention 60.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Eldon on March 18, 2020, 07:12:52 PM

Quote from: MUDish on March 18, 2020, 03:59:13 PM

This is fluid, but have been told Lightfoot is going to announce Shelter in Place for Chicago tomorrow. To be clear, hearing the announcement is coming tomorrow, no info as to when it would start. To be transparent I where I got the info, my wife works for a community college in Cook County, she's the VP of her union, and she just got off a call that was the directive forthcoming. She also said that the state colleges were going to announce that the next three Friday's are going to be earmarked as holidays, so no work from home those days.

My hunch is that Pritzker will maybe be the one that ends up making the announcement, with broader coverage of the Shelter In Place.

Also to be transparent, my sister (works for state of Arizona) said earlier this week that she was being told a national shutdown was to happen by today, so that did not come to happen. I don't want to share $hitty rumors, and I trust my wife/sister, so you can yell at me if when these things don't happen.

Maybe your sister had the correct week. Maybe it happens in the next two days so that people arent able to go out for the weekend.

St. Patricks celebrations across the country were a bad look.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 18, 2020, 07:18:31 PM

Not just old people.

@liamstack: 38% of Coronavirus patients who were sick enough to be hospitalized were were between the ages of 20 and 54. Roughly half of those were between 20 and 44. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/18/health/coronavirus-young-people.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 18, 2020, 07:30:13 PM

testing has been backed up so the higher reports are not surprising as that is exactly what was expected as of the morning briefing

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 18, 2020, 07:33:52 PM

Quote from: MUfan12 on March 18, 2020, 06:09:38 PM

MMAC sent a memo out today on this in conjunction with MCW. Biggest takeaway was that they don't expect it to peak in WI until late May.

why late May?  Would seem like sometime in april would be more along the lines of what they avhe been saying with how fast it spreads

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 18, 2020, 07:51:27 PM

Two R reps tested positive today. Fallout from the CPAC attendee being positive?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 18, 2020, 07:56:04 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 18, 2020, 05:20:17 PM

As for "China getting back to normal..."

https://time.com/5804136/china-coronavirus-quarantine-new-normal/ (https://time.com/5804136/china-coronavirus-quarantine-new-normal/)

Life in China Has Not Returned to Normal, Despite What the Government Says

Wait - you mean we can’t trust the Chinese government?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 18, 2020, 08:00:03 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 18, 2020, 07:51:27 PM

Two R reps tested positive today. Fallout from the CPAC attendee being positive?

They were barely symptomatic, but got tests. NBA players getting tests.

Others dying in hospital beds, waiting to be tested.

Meanwhile, everyone working at home, but low-income wage earners having to show up in person and deal with countless interactions with people.

Anyone else seeing the income disparity and privilege being put on display here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 18, 2020, 08:10:22 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 18, 2020, 07:56:04 PM

Wait - you mean we can’t trust the Chinese government?

Will a 2nd wave of infections hits China as it eases restrictions? They've convinced a lot of people into thinking all is well there.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 18, 2020, 08:11:17 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 18, 2020, 08:00:03 PM

They were barely symptomatic, but got tests. NBA players getting tests.

Others dying in hospital beds, waiting to be tested.

Meanwhile, everyone working at home, but low-income wage earners having to show up in person and deal with countless interactions with people.

Anyone else seeing the income disparity and privilege being put on display here.

Same old, same old.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: lawdog77 on March 18, 2020, 08:26:06 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 18, 2020, 08:00:03 PM

Others dying in hospital beds, waiting to be tested.

Serious question. If someone is dying in a hospital bed, and not tested, what is the medicinal regimen they are given? Assume its COVID and treat as such?  Who should be tested with the first 1 million tests available?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: real chili 83 on March 18, 2020, 08:29:27 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 18, 2020, 02:07:53 PM

I saw these ideas stated by Elizabeth Warren on minimum conditions for any industry bailout.
(And for crying out loud, please don't go nuts because it's Elizabeth Warren stating them.)
Sounded like many of the statements mirrored earlier Scoop comments.

We’re not writing blank checks to giant corporations. Any taxpayer dollars that go to help big businesses during the coronavirus crisis should come with the following minimum requirements:
1. Companies must maintain their payrolls and use funds to keep people working or on payroll.
2. Companies must provide a $15 minimum wage within one year of the national emergency declaration ending.
3. Companies are permanently prohibited from engaging in share repurchases.
4. Companies are prohibited from paying out dividends or executive bonuses while they are receiving any relief and for three years thereafter.
5. Companies must set aside at least one seat – but potentially two or more, as the amount of relief increases – on the board of directors for representatives elected by workers.
6. Collective bargaining agreements should remain in place and should not be reopened or renegotiated pursuant to this relief program.
7. Corporations must obtain shareholder and board approval for all political expenditures.
8. CEOs must be required to personally certify a company is in compliance and face criminal penalties for false certifications.
Congress must set up an oversight body, modeled on the Congressional Oversight Panel and the SIGTARP program for the bank bailout, but with real funding & subpoena power. We need real accountability to make sure these conditions are met.

Good lord.  A solution, looking for a problem.  Seriously, how long has she been saving this list for the chance to use it?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Bo Ryan's Massage Therapist on March 18, 2020, 08:33:45 PM

Quote from: lawdog77 on March 18, 2020, 08:26:06 PM

Serious question. If someone is dying in a hospital bed, and not tested, what is the medicinal regimen they are given? Assume its COVID and treat as such?  Who should be tested with the first 1 million tests available?

Our hospital is testing everyone admitted.  ICU cases increased from 1 yesterday to 9 today

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 18, 2020, 08:38:27 PM

Quote from: real chili 83 on March 18, 2020, 08:29:27 PM

Good lord.  A solution, looking for a problem.  Seriously, how long has she been saving this list for the chance to use it?

Exactly. Where is any problem? I heard the whole thing is a "hoax".

I forget who it was that said that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on March 18, 2020, 08:48:17 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 18, 2020, 06:51:06 PM

This reminds me .. MKE county closed golf and frisbee golf courses.    That seems over the top.   You can easily maintain 6 feet, not to mention 60.

I live in a golf community in Florida. Our clubhouse (restaurant and bar) is closed. Our fitness center is closed. Outdoor fitness classes continue, golf course is open to members only, no guests. No rakes in bunkers, no pulling of the pin. Used to be 2 carts per 4some, now all 4 players are allowed to take separate golf carts. Pickleball and tennis courts are open. Very fluid, any of this could change.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 18, 2020, 08:57:47 PM

Quote from: real chili 83 on March 18, 2020, 08:29:27 PM

Good lord.  A solution, looking for a problem.  Seriously, how long has she been saving this list for the chance to use it?

I wonder how you might have responded if this were Ted Cruz's plan.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 18, 2020, 09:09:58 PM

Quote from: real chili 83 on March 18, 2020, 08:29:27 PM

Good lord.  A solution, looking for a problem.  Seriously, how long has she been saving this list for the chance to use it?

It's definitely a problem, and while there are some over-the-top points there, several are quite reasonable.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on March 18, 2020, 09:26:42 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 18, 2020, 09:09:58 PM

It's definitely a problem, and while there are some over-the-top points there, several are quite reasonable.

Which would you like to see adopted and which do you feel are over the top?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on March 18, 2020, 10:14:52 PM

Quote from: MUfan12 on March 18, 2020, 06:09:38 PM

MMAC sent a memo out today on this in conjunction with MCW. Biggest takeaway was that they don't expect it to peak in WI until late May.

Would that be good news? I thought the idea of flattening the curve was so we didn’t get the big spike in the next week or two. If the peak is May, I’m guessing we did a good job flattening the curve.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on March 18, 2020, 10:21:42 PM

Quote from: cheebs09 on March 18, 2020, 10:14:52 PM

Would that be good news? I thought the idea of flattening the curve was so we didn’t get the big spike in the next week or two. If the peak is May, I’m guessing we did a good job flattening the curve.

For sure. But if all these measures go another 2+ months people* are gonna lose their minds.

*Me.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 18, 2020, 10:36:03 PM

Quote from: lawdog77 on March 18, 2020, 08:26:06 PM

Serious question. If someone is dying in a hospital bed, and not tested, what is the medicinal regimen they are given? Assume its COVID and treat as such?  Who should be tested with the first 1 million tests available?

They absolutely must be tested. I'm talking about people that came in with flu-like illnesses several days ago. Tested negative for the flu, and other respiratory illnesses, then only days later after they are dying or dead, are they tested.

That is a weak or more that their contacts have been spreading this. What if it was a person from a nursing home, instead of disinfecting the place, and quarantining them to their rooms they now spread it through the entire place and many will die.

It is for the purpose of back-tracing patients that you have to test them.

Testing an asymptomatic person, who has been in known contact with a positive case is pointless. Tell them to quarantine regardless, trace contacts regardless.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 18, 2020, 10:45:41 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 18, 2020, 09:26:42 PM

Which would you like to see adopted and which do you feel are over the top?

1, 6 and 7.
And while 4 goes too far, I would prohibit executive bonuses funded by bailout money.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 18, 2020, 10:59:56 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 18, 2020, 08:00:03 PM

They were barely symptomatic, but got tests. NBA players getting tests.

Others dying in hospital beds, waiting to be tested.

Meanwhile, everyone working at home, but low-income wage earners having to show up in person and deal with countless interactions with people.

Anyone else seeing the income disparity and privilege being put on display here.

"Perhaps that's been the story of life"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 18, 2020, 11:09:36 PM

This crap is infuriating:

https://twitter.com/AugieLindmark/status/1240405791821254657?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on March 18, 2020, 11:29:11 PM

NY is a ground zero.  Dem on Dem dissent.  No talk here but in 5 days from now it is a human catastrophe for the elderly. Leaders would have locked this down three weeks ago.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on March 18, 2020, 11:32:35 PM

Hydroxychloroquine


That be the solution

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on March 18, 2020, 11:39:01 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 18, 2020, 03:09:05 PM

I'm suggesting that 75k tests is inadequate.  I'm also suggesting those 75k tests should already be processed, and 150k more should already be shipped to providers.

And maybe you should up your knowledge from CNN...lol...that was a good line WD.
https://www.modernhealthcare.com/politics-policy/covid-19-testing-delays-shine-light-lab-developed-test-regulation-debate

Some of you have very low expectations for the greatest country in the world...

On January 14th, WHO said there was no evidence of human to human transmission.  It was not until January 20th when they changed this.

https://twitter.com/who/status/1217043229427761152?lang=en

I have realistic expectations based on time and the legal requirements in this country tied to medical testing.  We can all be frustrated by testing not coming online fast enough, but my belief is if flawed tests were deployed or rushed opinions would be unchanged.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 19, 2020, 12:24:14 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on March 18, 2020, 11:39:01 PM

On January 14th, WHO said there was no evidence of human to human transmission.  It was not until January 20th when they changed this.

https://twitter.com/who/status/1217043229427761152?lang=en

I have realistic expectations based on time and the legal requirements in this country tied to medical testing.  We can all be frustrated by testing not coming online fast enough, but my belief is if flawed tests were deployed or rushed opinions would be unchanged.

On Jan. 14th, I believe there were a total of 20-30 cases in China. There wasn't enough data yet to verify person-person transmission (which has a very specific meaning).

The test used by the WHO, was developed by the leading research lab in viral genetics. It had a 100% accuracy. In all honesty, it may be a better designed, and more accurate test than the one we are currently using.

We were the ones that developed and deployed a flawed test, that had to be corrected due to problems with reagents.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 19, 2020, 12:27:36 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on March 18, 2020, 11:39:01 PM

On January 14th, WHO said there was no evidence of human to human transmission.  It was not until January 20th when they changed this.

https://twitter.com/who/status/1217043229427761152?lang=en

I have realistic expectations based on time and the legal requirements in this country tied to medical testing.  We can all be frustrated by testing not coming online fast enough, but my belief is if flawed tests were deployed or rushed opinions would be unchanged.

I think I pointed this out way back, but the appointed director of WHO, dr tedros adhanom, has a history of covering up epidemics in his own country.  Ya think this would have been kind of a disqualifier for the position, no?



https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/13/health/candidate-who-director-general-ethiopia-cholera-outbreaks.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HouWarrior on March 19, 2020, 12:50:00 AM

Quote from: real chili 83 on March 18, 2020, 08:29:27 PM

Good lord.  A solution, looking for a problem.  Seriously, how long has she been saving this list for the chance to use it?

She has had this list for over ten years, sourced by her own experience.

As you may recall to the 2008-9 crisis, while she was still a Harvard law professor, and with Sen Harry Reid's (D-Nev) support, Liz Warren was named to investigate the TARP bailout of the banks. Many of the points here parallel the abuses she found with TARP funds use/abuses in the trillion$ bailout.

Few points  were implemented, however, as the Banks had an aggressive ally in Obama's newly minted treasury secy Tim Geitner, formerly of the NY Fed Reserve, who cut off further investigations and enforcement of almost all of these points. 

Today, the question will be, once again, whether there is either the legislative will to impose these conditions on govt bailout monies, or the subsequent dedication by the executive branch, including treasury dept, to implement or enforce any of them.

One can see the historical logic here, but like many initiatives, such is very subject to political/lobbying will

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: real chili 83 on March 19, 2020, 04:13:45 AM

Quote from: houwarrior on March 19, 2020, 12:50:00 AM

She has had this list for over ten years, sourced by her own experience.

As you may recall to the 2008-9 crisis, while she was still a Harvard law professor, and with Sen Harry Reid's (D-Nev) support, Liz Warren was named to investigate the TARP bailout of the banks. Many of the points here parallel the abuses she found with TARP funds use/abuses in the trillion$ bailout.

Few points  were implemented, however, as the Banks had an aggressive ally in Obama's newly minted treasury secy Tim Geitner, formerly of the NY Fed Reserve, who cut off further investigations and enforcement of almost all of these points. 

Today, the question will be, once again, whether there is either the legislative will to impose these conditions on govt bailout monies, or the subsequent dedication by the executive branch, including treasury dept, to implement or enforce any of them.

One can see the historical logic here, but like many initiatives, such is very subject to political/lobbying will

Thanks for this thoughtful answer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: lawdog77 on March 19, 2020, 07:08:35 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 18, 2020, 11:09:36 PM

This crap is infuriating:

https://twitter.com/AugieLindmark/status/1240405791821254657?s=19

The tweet:
But multiple patients of mine can’t leave the hospital because they’re awaiting prior auths from commercial insurers.

Insurance companies are clogging up the system in the middle of a damn pandemic.

Although the insurance is holding up the process, technically the hospital is too. Just treat the patient and fight with the insurance company later.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 19, 2020, 07:19:44 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on March 18, 2020, 11:32:35 PM

Hydroxychloroquine


That be the solution

It has been mentioned as a possible treatment for at least a month.  How much do we have, is it safe, and when can we get it to people who need it?

Alongside others, I doubt it is a magic bullet, but we can be hopeful.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 19, 2020, 07:29:06 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 19, 2020, 07:19:44 AM

It has been mentioned as a possible treatment for at least a month.  How much do we have, is it safe, and when can we get it to people who need it?

Alongside others, I doubt it is a magic bullet, but we can be hopeful.

Safety is always a factor, but like any drug, is it safe specifically for that patient?  The drug itself has been around a long time, since WWII I believe. Used to treat a variety of things, but initially came out to treat malaria.  Since then they’ve been trying it on certain forms of lupus, arthritis and a few other maladies  I believe the South Koreans were using it with some effectiveness on the virus du jour

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on March 19, 2020, 07:36:43 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 18, 2020, 10:45:41 PM

1, 6 and 7.
And while 4 goes too far, I would prohibit executive bonuses funded by bailout money.

Thanks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 19, 2020, 07:39:13 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 19, 2020, 07:29:06 AM

Safety is always a factor, but like any drug, is it safe specifically for that patient?  The drug itself has been around a long time, since WWII I believe. Used to treat a variety of things, but initially came out to treat malaria.  Since then they’ve been trying it on certain forms of lupus, arthritis and a few other maladies  I believe the South Koreans were using it with some effectiveness on the virus du jour

This is the thing that a lot of people don't understand, and I'm glad you brought it up.  People react differently to different drugs.  I think being an anesthesiologist is very scary work for this exact reason.   There are general guidelines, but its more cooking than baking... if that analogy makes sense.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 19, 2020, 07:40:01 AM

Coronavirus timeline:
- January 19: 100 cases
- January 24: 1,000 cases
- January 28: 5,000 cases
- February 12: 50,000 cases
- March 6: 100,000 cases
- March 14: 150,000 cases
- March 18: 200,000 cases
- March 19: 225,000 cases


America is about to realize what exponential growth is.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: DomJamesToTheBasket on March 19, 2020, 07:58:23 AM

I had some family and friends think I was crazy for flying back to China last week rather than flying back to America.  Saw this coming a mile away.  The lack of preparation, precaution, and action in America is appalling.  These "leaders" need to start making some unpopular decisions NOW before it's too late.  Stay safe everyone!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 19, 2020, 08:08:18 AM

Quote from: DomJamesToTheBasket on March 19, 2020, 07:58:23 AM

I had some family and friends think I was crazy for flying back to China last week rather than flying back to America.  Saw this coming a mile away.  The lack of preparation, precaution, and action in America is appalling.  These "leaders" need to start making some unpopular decisions NOW before it's too late.  Stay safe everyone!

My son works in Japan.  Early last week, my wife mentioned that she would like him back here.  I told her he was safer over there.  I think I was right about that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 19, 2020, 08:17:19 AM

Then there's this.

---

Russia deploying coronavirus disinformation to sow panic in West, EU document says
Robin Emmott

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-disinformation/russia-deploying-coronavirus-disinformation-to-sow-panic-in-west-eu-document-says-idUSKBN21518F

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on March 19, 2020, 08:18:55 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 19, 2020, 08:17:19 AM

Then there's this.

---

Russia deploying coronavirus disinformation to sow panic in West, EU document says
Robin Emmott

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-disinformation/russia-deploying-coronavirus-disinformation-to-sow-panic-in-west-eu-document-says-idUSKBN21518F

unsurprising.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 19, 2020, 08:31:11 AM

The proposed bailout package for the airlines is immoral.

Here is an industry that for the last 10 years has gotten fat and rich by fleecing Americans for every last cent. Most charge to check luggage, most charge to pick a seat in advance, and some even charge for water and carry-on bags. They have squeezed in seats, making flying unbearably uncomfortable. They have increased penalties for changes and cancellations (or forbid them entirely). They have increased the cost of flying significantly. Executives have gotten rich, and so have shareholders thanks to buybacks and the like.

Now, at the first sign of adversity, they come begging the same people they've been fleecing for a huge handout.

And the shytty thing is that we pretty much have to bail them out for the good of our economy.

'Merica!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 19, 2020, 08:39:00 AM

I am not a big proponent of what Liz Warren is preaching above.

Except for the airlines.  If they want to take another bailout, it should come with strings.  Big ones.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Class71 on March 19, 2020, 09:19:49 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on March 18, 2020, 11:32:35 PM

Hydroxychloroquine


That be the solution

Maybe. Used in China and now France with possibly some success. A pair of HIV drugs developed in the USA have also been used in China with some success if you believe their stats.

New York is just the beginning. If people throughout the country ignore the Fed. Guidelines we will all be at risk. On average for each case 4 more people are infected. Add that to the fact symptoms do not show until 2-15+ days after a person is contagious and we are just now rolling out high volume testing and you get the picture.

This threat is real. Follow the guidelines to the letter. It effects all ages with 50% of all hospital cases in the 20-50 age category.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 19, 2020, 09:37:31 AM

Quote from: lawdog77 on March 19, 2020, 07:08:35 AM

The tweet:
But multiple patients of mine can’t leave the hospital because they’re awaiting prior auths from commercial insurers.

Insurance companies are clogging up the system in the middle of a damn pandemic.

Although the insurance is holding up the process, technically the hospital is too. Just treat the patient and fight with the insurance company later.

That it probably what it will come to. But there's a catch - while the hospital may be left to fight for its payment if the company doesn't authorize the inpatient care, the patient may also be left holding the bag for subsequent lower-level treatment (i.e., nursing home assisted living, outpatient). So it's a financial risk for both the hospital and the patient to discharge or transfer without all contractually required authorizations.

IMHO - this is another of those problems Congress could easily solve. Just pass a measure that allows hospitals to transfer patients to lower levels of care (SNF, outpatient or whatever), and require that insurance companies pay with or without normally required authorizations.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 19, 2020, 09:42:13 AM

Quote from: MUfan12 on March 18, 2020, 10:21:42 PM

For sure. But if all these measures go another 2+ months people* are gonna lose their minds.

*Me.

Might want to get into the mindset that you are in military deployment.  You're doing this for everyone and the greater good.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on March 19, 2020, 09:42:14 AM

Let the airlines burn or limit their scummyness

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 19, 2020, 09:42:59 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 19, 2020, 09:37:31 AM

That it probably what it will come to. But there's a catch - while the hospital may be left to fight for its payment if the company doesn't authorize the inpatient care, the patient may also be left holding the bag for subsequent lower-level treatment (i.e., nursing home assisted living, outpatient). So it's a financial risk for both the hospital and the patient to discharge or transfer without all contractually required authorizations.

IMHO - this is another of those problems Congress could easily solve. Just pass a measure that allows hospitals to transfer patients to lower levels of care (SNF, outpatient or whatever), and require that insurance companies pay with or without normally required authorizations.

I agree gooo.  I am happy we seem to be mobilizing, but I have yet to see the coordinated response--so piecemail right now.  Step one is getting people to shut it down and we finally got the Dr's out in front to declare the crisis (fauci).  So much more to go.  Get rules out of the way, re-purpose our infrastructure (factories, hotels, military), etc.

Now its time to get the face of the response out there that knows what is in the way of putting all of our countries might behind testing, treatment/therapy, vaccines and eventual return to a new normal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 19, 2020, 09:48:12 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on March 18, 2020, 11:32:35 PM

Hydroxychloroquine


That be the solution

The statistics I've seen show a small benefit of hydroxychloroquine, but if used in combination with azithromycin, it seems to be quite effective.

The problem is that they are testing it on so few patients, it is hard to know what it means.

https://mobile.twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1240352261072498688?fbclid=IwAR2fGTij73XFfT3y9USNEP0IWRqchaHXNhs9ddJHJS3J79FA04E_m92uUmQ

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 19, 2020, 09:49:13 AM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on March 19, 2020, 09:42:14 AM

Let the airlines burn or limit their scummyness

Yup.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: lawdog77 on March 19, 2020, 09:51:22 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 19, 2020, 09:37:31 AM

That it probably what it will come to. But there's a catch - while the hospital may be left to fight for its payment if the company doesn't authorize the inpatient care, the patient may also be left holding the bag for subsequent lower-level treatment (i.e., nursing home assisted living, outpatient). So it's a financial risk for both the hospital and the patient to discharge or transfer without all contractually required authorizations.

IMHO - this is another of those problems Congress could easily solve. Just pass a measure that allows hospitals to transfer patients to lower levels of care (SNF, outpatient or whatever), and require that insurance companies pay with or without normally required authorizations.

This is what I did at my firm before I opened my own firm (revenue cycle). No insurance company is going to withold payment in this time of crisis for this reason. Or I should say, no arbitrator/judge is going to allow it. If it is 5 people this tweet is talking about, discharge them and make room.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 19, 2020, 10:07:25 AM

Zero new cases reported in China yesterday. First time since outbreak.

Undeniably good news for humanity.

We are all in this together.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 19, 2020, 10:10:29 AM

Quote from: forgetful on March 19, 2020, 09:48:12 AM

The statistics I've seen show a small benefit of hydroxychloroquine, but if used in combination with azithromycin, it seems to be quite effective.

The problem is that they are testing it on so few patients, it is hard to know what it means.

https://mobile.twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1240352261072498688?fbclid=IwAR2fGTij73XFfT3y9USNEP0IWRqchaHXNhs9ddJHJS3J79FA04E_m92uUmQ

Could someone explain why an anti biotic would be useful in fighting a virus? That goes against everything I learned from Scrubs, House and ER lol

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 19, 2020, 10:13:10 AM

Quote from: Coleman on March 19, 2020, 10:07:25 AM

Zero new cases reported in China yesterday. First time since outbreak.

Undeniably good news for humanity.

We are all in this together.

There were still cases from people coming into China.  34 new cases... 0 in Hubei. Which is reassuring... If you believe them.  ;)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 19, 2020, 10:15:45 AM

New York State just increased their numbers by 30% today.

So, I guess the testing is finally coming back...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 19, 2020, 10:16:36 AM

4 patients in ICU in southern MKE suburb including a 23 year old on respirator who are suspected Covid-19 patients

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 19, 2020, 10:25:30 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 19, 2020, 10:10:29 AM

Could someone explain why an anti biotic would be useful in fighting a virus? That goes against everything I learned from Scrubs, House and ER lol

Azithromycin is a bit unique there (probably other macrolides too), they do exhibit some antiviral properties, specifically in bronchial epithelial cells that COVID-19 targets. Weakly antiviral, and shouldn't be used for viral treatments, but this case is a bit unique, where the possible benefit may outweigh the risks. It's also only seen in combination therapies.

There is no known biochemical reason why chloroquine should work either, but it seems to have an effect in combination therapies.

What is likely occurring in the combination therapy is that Azithromycin is interfering with viral replication in targeting of the receptor for cell entry. Chloroquine (and its related compounds) are acting to reduce the inflammatory response, so together they are having some efficacy in reducing the need for hospitalization.

If I were a medical doctor, which I am not, I'd be pretreating patients with CF. that may have been exposed to COVID-19, with this combination. Unlikely to cause harm, and they are particularly at risk of this illness.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 19, 2020, 10:28:43 AM

Quote from: forgetful on March 19, 2020, 10:25:30 AM

Azithromycin is a bit unique there (probably other macrolides too), they do exhibit some antiviral properties, specifically in bronchial epithelial cells that COVID-19 targets. Weakly antiviral, and shouldn't be used for viral treatments, but this case is a bit unique, where the possible benefit may outweigh the risks. It's also only seen in combination therapies.

There is no known biochemical reason why chloroquine should work either, but it seems to have an effect in combination therapies.

Fixed that for ya :-P

The same applies to quite a few treatments, some work and we have no real idea why.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 19, 2020, 10:31:09 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 19, 2020, 10:28:43 AM

Fixed that for ya :-P

The same applies to quite a few treatments, some work and we have no real idea why.

Thank you, fixed it and updated with a bit more info.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 19, 2020, 10:39:52 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 18, 2020, 07:18:31 PM

Not just old people.

@liamstack: 38% of Coronavirus patients who were sick enough to be hospitalized were were between the ages of 20 and 54. Roughly half of those were between 20 and 44. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/18/health/coronavirus-young-people.html

Quoting to bump.  Not just a"boomer remover".  Here's the official CDC PR:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e2.htm?s_cid=mm6912e2_w

Quote

Among 508 (12%) patients known to have been hospitalized, 9% were aged ≥85 years, 26% were aged 65–84 years, 17% were aged 55–64 years, 18% were 45–54 years, and 20% were aged 20–44 years. Less than 1% of hospitalizations were among persons aged ≤19 years (Figure 2). The percentage of persons hospitalized increased with age, from 2%–3% among persons aged ≤9 years, to ≥31% among adults aged ≥85 years. (Table).

Among 121 patients known to have been admitted to an ICU, 7% of cases were reported among adults ≥85 years, 46% among adults aged 65–84 years, 36% among adults aged 45–64 years, and 12% among adults aged 20–44 years (Figure 2). No ICU admissions were reported among persons aged ≤19 years. Percentages of ICU admissions were lowest among adults aged 20–44 years (2%–4%) and highest among adults aged 75–84 years (11%–31%) (Table).

12% of ICU patients are 20-44.  Though, I would prefer they narrow in on that band a little.  Are most closer to 40?  Are there a lot in the 20-35 range?  Good news, if you're ≤ 19, have fun.  Just don't get the rest of us sick.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 19, 2020, 10:42:10 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 19, 2020, 10:39:52 AM

Quoting to bump.  Not just a"boomer remover".  Here's the official CDC PR:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e2.htm?s_cid=mm6912e2_w

12% of ICU patients are 20-44.  Though, I would prefer they narrow in on that band a little.  Are most closer to 40?  Are there a lot in the 20-35 range?  Good news, if you're ≤ 19, have fun.  Just don't get the rest of us sick.

Also, of the young patients in severe state, how many are healthy vs with co-morbidities?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on March 19, 2020, 10:53:16 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 19, 2020, 10:42:10 AM

Also, of the young patients in severe state, how many are healthy vs with co-morbidities?

These are the real stats that are needed.

It's easy enough to say 50 twenty somethings are in the hospital. But what if 49/50 have no immune system?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 19, 2020, 11:05:44 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 19, 2020, 08:39:00 AM

I am not a big proponent of what Liz Warren is preaching above.

Except for the airlines.  If they want to take another bailout, it should come with strings.  Big ones.

Just curious. Why do you support companies using taxpayer-funded bailouts to engage in share repurchases?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on March 19, 2020, 11:08:58 AM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on March 19, 2020, 10:53:16 AM

These are the real stats that are needed.

It's easy enough to say 50 twenty somethings are in the hospital. But what if 49/50 have no immune system?

Theyve never done this.  They add those details, like the old age of the majority of the Italian deaths, in the middle of articles days later.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 19, 2020, 11:14:11 AM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on March 19, 2020, 10:53:16 AM

These are the real stats that are needed.

It's easy enough to say 50 twenty somethings are in the hospital. But what if 49/50 have no immune system?

Right, a 20 something stage 4 cancer patient, or HIV+ person not on treatment, isn't going to fare well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 19, 2020, 11:17:28 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 19, 2020, 09:42:59 AM

I agree gooo.  I am happy we seem to be mobilizing, but I have yet to see the coordinated response--so piecemail right now.  Step one is getting people to shut it down and we finally got the Dr's out in front to declare the crisis (fauci).  So much more to go.  Get rules out of the way, re-purpose our infrastructure (factories, hotels, military), etc.

Many of us are. Hopefully, most of us are. But there are still many actively fighting against protective measures. In Kansas yesterday, the legislature took away many of the governor's powers to act against the virus after she closed schools for the rest of the semester.

They even specifically included language that guns cannot be confiscated. Methinks their priorities might be a bit off kilter.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/kansas/articles/2020-03-18/gop-right-pushes-back-on-kansas-governor-for-closing-schools

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 19, 2020, 11:26:17 AM

Quote from: Jockey on March 19, 2020, 11:17:28 AM

Many of us are. Hopefully, most of us are. But there are still many actively fighting against protective measures. In Kansas yesterday, the legislature took away many of the governor's powers to act against the virus after she closed schools for the rest of the semester.

They even specifically included language that guns cannot be confiscated. Methinks their priorities might be a bit off kilter.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/kansas/articles/2020-03-18/gop-right-pushes-back-on-kansas-governor-for-closing-schools

As a conservative, Kansas makes me cringe. A lot.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 19, 2020, 11:27:52 AM

https://twitter.com/wpjenna/status/1240654583766175744

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 19, 2020, 11:34:42 AM

Quote from: Jockey on March 19, 2020, 11:05:44 AM

Just curious. Why do you support companies using taxpayer-funded bailouts to engage in share repurchases?

The whole problem is that provision bans it forever. Stock repurchase is a health practice in normal times. If the provision was sunset on some recovery metric or a timeline(5 years after accepting bailout) I'm 100% on board. Otherwise it just feels like a Don Quixote position to take

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 19, 2020, 11:46:53 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 19, 2020, 11:34:42 AM

The whole problem is that provision bans it forever. Stock repurchase is a health practice in normal times. If the provision was sunset on some recovery metric or a timeline(5 years after accepting bailout) I'm 100% on board. Otherwise it just feels like a Don Quixote position to take

Debatable. It was illegal until the 1980s.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 19, 2020, 11:52:30 AM

Quote from: Jockey on March 19, 2020, 11:05:44 AM

Just curious. Why do you support companies using taxpayer-funded bailouts to engage in share repurchases?

I don't like the absolute "never" language.  Share repurchases can be useful.  I would prefer a time limit of say 20 years or so.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 19, 2020, 11:55:26 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 19, 2020, 11:52:30 AM

I don't like the absolute "never" language.  Share repurchases can be useful.  I would prefer a time limit of say 20 years or so.

I don't think they'd be using bailout money in 20 years.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 19, 2020, 11:56:29 AM

Quote from: Coleman on March 19, 2020, 11:46:53 AM

Debatable. It was illegal until the 1980s.

So was alcohol for a time

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 19, 2020, 12:01:45 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 19, 2020, 11:55:26 AM

I don't think they'd be using bailout money in 20 years.

Right.  That's my point.  As I recall, the Warren language says "can never repurchase shares." 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 19, 2020, 12:22:42 PM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on March 19, 2020, 09:42:14 AM

Let the airlines burn or limit their scummyness

I like the spirit of this. Unfortunately, we need healthy airlines to function as a society. The cost to let them all die and then start up new ones would be beyond exorbitant.

But I agree with others that there should be significant strings attached. It's our turn, as taxpayers and consumers, to nickel and dime them!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 19, 2020, 12:25:34 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 19, 2020, 12:01:45 PM

Right.  That's my point.  As I recall, the Warren language says "can never repurchase shares."

You are right. I saw the 3 years stipulation on executive bonuses and combined the two points.

I have issues with a couple of Warren's points, but we cannot allow this bailout to line the pockets of executives and shareholders. The "point" of a bailout is to get companies through THIS crisis.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 19, 2020, 12:26:57 PM

Quote from: MU82 on March 19, 2020, 12:22:42 PM

I like the spirit of this. Unfortunately, we need healthy airlines to function as a society. The cost to let them all die and then start up new ones would be beyond exorbitant.

But I agree with others that there should be significant strings attached. It's our turn, as taxpayers and consumers, to nickel and dime them!

What if we just had a national flag carrier like most other countries have had (British Airways, Air Canada, Air France, etc.)? Like an Amtrak of the skies. I'm thinking this would be a merger of United-Delta-American, possibly Alaska too.

You could still have luxury or discount carriers (a la Virgin Atlantic or Porter Airlines, I'm guessing Southwest would be the main one there) if there was a market for it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 19, 2020, 12:32:07 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 19, 2020, 11:52:30 AM

I don't like the absolute "never" language.  Share repurchases can be useful.  I would prefer a time limit of say 20 years or so.

Or require them to prove that it is prudent to buy back.  Show cause, if you will.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 19, 2020, 12:37:55 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 19, 2020, 11:52:30 AM

I don't like the absolute "never" language.  Share repurchases can be useful.  I would prefer a time limit of say 20 years or so.

If I were writing the plan, I would say that companies are allowed to repurchase any new shares issued after a certain date (let's say time of bail-out).  That way they can manage the capital structure/dilution that occurs due to compensation, etc.  Beyond that government approval or certain capitalization levels need to be reached (i.e. achieve AA bond rating and A1/P1 CP rating).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Sir Lawrence on March 19, 2020, 12:42:42 PM

Here's advice that I hadn't seen before this morning, and I'm wondering if anyone else has information about it:

•   When driving, keep windows slightly open to provide air flow.

It's origin is an email blast from the State of Michigan DNR, letting people know that park trails, etc. are open.  Then it lists the usual measures, including the one I hadn't heard of.  I presumed most vehicles have adequate fresh air flow already, even with the windows sealed. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 19, 2020, 12:52:17 PM

Quote from: Sir Lawrence on March 19, 2020, 12:42:42 PM

Here's advice that I hadn't seen before this morning, and I'm wondering if anyone else has information about it:

•   When driving, keep windows slightly open to provide air flow.

It's origin is an email blast from the State of Michigan DNR, letting people know that park trails, etc. are open.  Then it lists the usual measures, including the one I hadn't heard of.  I presumed most vehicles have adequate fresh air flow already, even with the windows sealed.

They do, but I did hear an expert from the Mayo Clinic yesterday on NPR answer a question about quarantining family members, and one of the precautions was to place them in a room and have the windows open.  It was the first I'd heard of this, which I thought was weird since today is the first day of Spring, and its pretty chilly outside.  Does anyone else have a guidance that suggests this?  I'm curious about the reasoning.   My uneducated guess is that "fresh air" is probably good for the sole reason of drying out or blowing out any water droplets which carry virus loads, thereby reducing viability.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 19, 2020, 12:57:33 PM

Italy reports 5,322 new cases of coronavirus and 427 new deaths, raising total to 41,035 cases and 3,405 dead. Death toll in Italy now surpasses that of China.

Dark days.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 19, 2020, 01:28:40 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 19, 2020, 12:25:34 PM

You are right. I saw the 3 years stipulation on executive bonuses and combined the two points.

I have issues with a couple of Warren's points, but we cannot allow this bailout to line the pockets of executives and shareholders. The "point" of a bailout is to get companies through THIS crisis.

That's why the cash should go right to the people and have it means tested.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 19, 2020, 02:13:03 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 19, 2020, 12:52:17 PM

They do, but I did hear an expert from the Mayo Clinic yesterday on NPR answer a question about quarantining family members, and one of the precautions was to place them in a room and have the windows open.  It was the first I'd heard of this, which I thought was weird since today is the first day of Spring, and its pretty chilly outside.  Does anyone else have a guidance that suggests this?  I'm curious about the reasoning.   My uneducated guess is that "fresh air" is probably good for the sole reason of drying out or blowing out any water droplets which carry virus loads, thereby reducing viability.

I don’t have any specific info about the rationale, but the advice is consistent with CDC guidance, which mentions open windows as a good practice in many situations:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/workplace-school-and-home-guidance.pdf

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 19, 2020, 02:15:17 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 19, 2020, 01:28:40 PM

That's why the cash should go right to the people and have it means tested.

Limited bailouts may be necessary, but I generally agree with your point.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 19, 2020, 02:32:41 PM

Amazing article in the NYT. (They have lifted their paywall for most of their coronavirus stuff.)

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/19/us/politics/trump-coronavirus-outbreak.html?fbclid=IwAR3R9APG4C5hw9HIMEMR0Rk3ptSFrmAPUBYcAMSVnRZRzmLMcxNa1Vqlxt0

WASHINGTON — The outbreak of the respiratory virus began in China and was quickly spread around the world by air travelers, who ran high fevers. In the United States, it was first detected in Chicago, and 47 days later, the World Health Organization declared a pandemic. By then it was too late: 110 million Americans were expected to become ill, leading to 7.7 million hospitalized and 586,000 dead.

That scenario, code-named “Crimson Contagion,” was simulated by the Trump administration’s Department of Health and Human Services in a series of exercises that ran from last January to August.

The simulation’s sobering results — contained in a draft report dated October 2019 that has not previously been reported — drove home just how underfunded, underprepared and uncoordinated the federal government would be for a life-or-death battle with a virus for which no treatment existed.

The draft report, marked “not to be disclosed,” laid out in stark detail repeated cases of “confusion” in the exercise. Federal agencies jockeyed over who was in charge. State officials and hospitals struggled to figure out what kind of equipment was stockpiled or available. Cities and states went their own ways on school closings.

Many of the potentially deadly consequences of a failure to address the shortcomings are now playing out in all-too-real fashion across the country. And it was hardly the first warning for the nation’s leaders.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 19, 2020, 02:40:05 PM

Quote from: MU82 on March 19, 2020, 02:32:41 PM

Amazing article in the NYT. (They have lifted their paywall for most of their coronavirus stuff.)

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/19/us/politics/trump-coronavirus-outbreak.html?fbclid=IwAR3R9APG4C5hw9HIMEMR0Rk3ptSFrmAPUBYcAMSVnRZRzmLMcxNa1Vqlxt0

WASHINGTON — The outbreak of the respiratory virus began in China and was quickly spread around the world by air travelers, who ran high fevers. In the United States, it was first detected in Chicago, and 47 days later, the World Health Organization declared a pandemic. By then it was too late: 110 million Americans were expected to become ill, leading to 7.7 million hospitalized and 586,000 dead.

That scenario, code-named “Crimson Contagion,” was simulated by the Trump administration’s Department of Health and Human Services in a series of exercises that ran from last January to August.

The simulation’s sobering results — contained in a draft report dated October 2019 that has not previously been reported — drove home just how underfunded, underprepared and uncoordinated the federal government would be for a life-or-death battle with a virus for which no treatment existed.

The draft report, marked “not to be disclosed,” laid out in stark detail repeated cases of “confusion” in the exercise. Federal agencies jockeyed over who was in charge. State officials and hospitals struggled to figure out what kind of equipment was stockpiled or available. Cities and states went their own ways on school closings.

Many of the potentially deadly consequences of a failure to address the shortcomings are now playing out in all-too-real fashion across the country. And it was hardly the first warning for the nation’s leaders.

Well that's quite a bombshell if true. And the numbers are crazy close to some of the predictions for COVID-19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 19, 2020, 02:49:51 PM

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-appointees-trained-pandemic-response-in-2016-2020-3

Trump transition team not interested in pandemic training, 2017.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 19, 2020, 02:55:34 PM

South Korea and the U.S. had first diagnosis on same day.

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2153BW?__twitter_impression=true

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 19, 2020, 03:11:49 PM

Quote from: MU82 on March 19, 2020, 02:32:41 PM

Amazing article in the NYT. (They have lifted their paywall for most of their coronavirus stuff.)

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/19/us/politics/trump-coronavirus-outbreak.html?fbclid=IwAR3R9APG4C5hw9HIMEMR0Rk3ptSFrmAPUBYcAMSVnRZRzmLMcxNa1Vqlxt0

WASHINGTON — The outbreak of the respiratory virus began in China and was quickly spread around the world by air travelers, who ran high fevers. In the United States, it was first detected in Chicago, and 47 days later, the World Health Organization declared a pandemic. By then it was too late: 110 million Americans were expected to become ill, leading to 7.7 million hospitalized and 586,000 dead.

That scenario, code-named “Crimson Contagion,” was simulated by the Trump administration’s Department of Health and Human Services in a series of exercises that ran from last January to August.

The simulation’s sobering results — contained in a draft report dated October 2019 that has not previously been reported — drove home just how underfunded, underprepared and uncoordinated the federal government would be for a life-or-death battle with a virus for which no treatment existed.

The draft report, marked “not to be disclosed,” laid out in stark detail repeated cases of “confusion” in the exercise. Federal agencies jockeyed over who was in charge. State officials and hospitals struggled to figure out what kind of equipment was stockpiled or available. Cities and states went their own ways on school closings.

Many of the potentially deadly consequences of a failure to address the shortcomings are now playing out in all-too-real fashion across the country. And it was hardly the first warning for the nation’s leaders.

If that is true and they did nothing to deal with the warning signs, it goes into the realm of blatant disregard for human life...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 19, 2020, 03:14:10 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 19, 2020, 03:11:49 PM

If that is true and they did nothing to deal with the warning signs, it goes into the realm of blatant disregard for human life...

Of course it's true.

And yes.

Also of course ... the head of this administration blamed their problems on the media.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on March 19, 2020, 03:19:39 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 19, 2020, 11:27:52 AM

https://twitter.com/wpjenna/status/1240654583766175744

A humble request to my fellow 'Scoopers:  Please don't post "blind links." If you think something is important enough to post here for the rest of us, it would be awesome if you'd spend an extra five seconds to type a sentence about what the link addresses. 

For example in this case: 

"This is hitting young people hard too:  https://twitter.com/wpjenna/status/1240654583766175744"

Or something similar.

Much appreciated.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 19, 2020, 03:20:46 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 19, 2020, 02:55:34 PM

South Korea and the U.S. had first diagnosis on same day.

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2153BW?__twitter_impression=true

early testing is great how did that get south korea to contain the virus

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 19, 2020, 03:23:11 PM

Pearl Harbor, 1932 Admiral Yarnell leaves his battleships behind and achieves complete surprise on Pearl Harbor in Table Exercise #19. 7 years later Japanese do the same, Roosevelt asleep at the wheel?

Bureaucracy fails, news at 11

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_E._Yarnell (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_E._Yarnell)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 19, 2020, 03:45:47 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 19, 2020, 03:23:11 PM

Pearl Harbor, 1932 Admiral Yarnell leaves his battleships behind and achieves complete surprise on Pearl Harbor in Table Exercise #19. 7 years later Japanese do the same, Roosevelt asleep at the wheel?

Bureaucracy fails, news at 11

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_E._Yarnell (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_E._Yarnell)

Pearl Harbor was in 1941.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 19, 2020, 03:47:11 PM

Quote from: Coleman on March 19, 2020, 03:45:47 PM

Pearl Harbor was in 1941.

News at 11.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 19, 2020, 03:56:44 PM

https://youtu.be/BtN-goy9VOY

Good video to share for information. May be a bit too technical/long for some.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 19, 2020, 03:57:25 PM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 19, 2020, 03:19:39 PM

A humble request to my fellow 'Scoopers:  Please don't post "blind links." If you think something is important enough to post here for the rest of us, it would be awesome if you'd spend an extra five seconds to type a sentence about what the link addresses. 

For example in this case: 

"This is hitting young people hard too:  https://twitter.com/wpjenna/status/1240654583766175744"

Or something similar.

Much appreciated.

Sometimes difficult to do on mobile.  Will try better. Sorry.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 19, 2020, 03:58:35 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 19, 2020, 03:23:11 PM

Pearl Harbor, 1932 Admiral Yarnell leaves his battleships behind and achieves complete surprise on Pearl Harbor in Table Exercise #19. 7 years later Japanese do the same, Roosevelt asleep at the wheel?

Bureaucracy fails, news at 11

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_E._Yarnell (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_E._Yarnell)

Essentially all bureaucracy, business, etc., convene panels, case studies, committees to look into an issue. They write up a detailed report, plan of action, and changes that need to be made. Those in charge say thanks, never read it and file it away. Rinse/wash/repeat every year.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 19, 2020, 04:35:15 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 19, 2020, 03:56:44 PM

https://youtu.be/BtN-goy9VOY

Good video to share for information. May be a bit too technical/long for some.

Very well made video. Thanks for sharing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 19, 2020, 04:47:33 PM

Senator Burr (Intel Chair) sells $1.6 million of stock in one day, a week before markets tank.

https://twitter.com/RobertFaturechi/status/1240746141236359168?s=19

https://twitter.com/NPR/status/1240669835790557184?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 19, 2020, 05:10:23 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 19, 2020, 04:47:33 PM

Senator Burr (Intel Chair) sells $1.6 million of stock in one day, a week before markets tank.

https://twitter.com/RobertFaturechi/status/1240746141236359168?s=19

https://twitter.com/NPR/status/1240669835790557184?s=19

I wonder how many of our politicians did things similar. They were privy to a lot of information before the rest of the world.

There should be no wonder why so many of them get rich in office.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 19, 2020, 06:04:56 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 19, 2020, 04:35:15 PM

Very well made video. Thanks for sharing.

Their entire library of videos is pretty awesome.

Great way to spend some quarantine time!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Marquette Gyros on March 19, 2020, 06:14:17 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 19, 2020, 05:10:23 PM

I wonder how many of our politicians did things similar. They were privy to a lot of information before the rest of the world.

There should be no wonder why so many of them get rich in office.

This is such bullcrap and should be grounds for immediate removal from office.

The first report of congressional insider trading (NPR way back in '03/'04 or so) sowed so much distrust in government for so many, including me.

The fact that this continues is incredible.  How is it still allowed to happen?  Oh right, because these guys make the rules.

FOH.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 19, 2020, 06:27:08 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 19, 2020, 11:17:28 AM

Many of us are. Hopefully, most of us are. But there are still many actively fighting against protective measures. In Kansas yesterday, the legislature took away many of the governor's powers to act against the virus after she closed schools for the rest of the semester.

They even specifically included language that guns cannot be confiscated. Methinks their priorities might be a bit off kilter.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/kansas/articles/2020-03-18/gop-right-pushes-back-on-kansas-governor-for-closing-schools

I didn't see much chatter on this, but it is absolutely abhorrent.

Truly, truly evil stuff.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 19, 2020, 06:31:55 PM

Quote from: Marquette Gyros on March 19, 2020, 06:14:17 PM

This is such bullcrap and should be grounds for immediate removal from office.

The first report of congressional insider trading (NPR way back in '03/'04 or so) sowed so much distrust in government for so many, including me.

The fact that this continues is incredible.  How is it still allowed to happen?  Oh right, because these guys make the rules.

FOH.

You hate to see it.  Guess these fellas didn't read their history.  18th Century France comes to mind.

I'm not advocating violence, since I'm a rational person...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 19, 2020, 06:33:39 PM

Quote from: Marquette Gyros on March 19, 2020, 06:14:17 PM

This is such bullcrap and should be grounds for immediate removal from office.

The first report of congressional insider trading (NPR way back in '03/'04 or so) sowed so much distrust in government for so many, including me.

The fact that this continues is incredible.  How is it still allowed to happen?  Oh right, because these guys make the rules.

FOH.

Hell, every time the main man tweets, the markets move. I can only wonder how many family members and cronies he tips off the night before each time.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on March 19, 2020, 06:51:01 PM

I'm on the map!

Someone in my building (300+ unit apartment building in downtown Mpls) has COVID-19. The CDC is aware of the case so my address should be on the virus maps. Potential exposure areas include the elevator and lobby, both of which where I have been.

They've been wiping things down quite often for the past 8 days, and are bringing in a third party to do a deep clean... but, yeah... getting a little to close to home... and getting literally to home.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 19, 2020, 06:53:02 PM

From the NYT:

Don’t forget Mr. Romney was the candidate who argued in 2012 that 47 percent of Americans were effectively government parasites, looking for “big gifts” and “free stuff.” He famously argued against the bailout of the auto industry in an Op-Ed titled “Let Detroit Go Bankrupt.”

Now he’s handing out cash.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 19, 2020, 07:05:48 PM

Quote from: MU82 on March 19, 2020, 06:53:02 PM

From the NYT:

Don’t forget Mr. Romney was the candidate who argued in 2012 that 47 percent of Americans were effectively government parasites, looking for “big gifts” and “free stuff.” He famously argued against the bailout of the auto industry in an Op-Ed titled “Let Detroit Go Bankrupt.”

Now he’s handing out cash.

Slight difference between the current scenario and the common, everyday scenario. It might even call for solutions we wouldn't normally call for on a regular basis. Whodathunk?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 19, 2020, 07:16:25 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 19, 2020, 07:05:48 PM

Slight difference between the current scenario and the common, everyday scenario. It might even call for solutions we wouldn't normally call for on a regular basis. Whodathunk?

I get what you're saying, although the Great Recession wasn't a "common, everyday scenario."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 19, 2020, 07:22:35 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on March 19, 2020, 06:51:01 PM

I'm on the map!

Someone in my building (300+ unit apartment building in downtown Mpls) has COVID-19. The CDC is aware of the case so my address should be on the virus maps. Potential exposure areas include the elevator and lobby, both of which where I have been.

They've been wiping things down quite often for the past 8 days, and are bringing in a third party to do a deep clean... but, yeah... getting a little to close to home... and getting literally to home.

Oof. Are you under quarantine?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 19, 2020, 07:23:40 PM

California health officials estimate half their population, 25.5 million people, could be infected in the next 2 months. I've been skeptical of projections this whole time, but this one strikes me as borderline irresponsible. Maybe an attempt to get disproportionate federal aid? I have a hard time believing that California officials truly believe it's likely that their state will represent a more than 100x increase in cases in just 8 weeks.

https://abc7.com/6028718/ (https://abc7.com/6028718/)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 19, 2020, 07:28:38 PM

Quote from: MU82 on March 19, 2020, 06:53:02 PM

From the NYT:

Don’t forget Mr. Romney was the candidate who argued in 2012 that 47 percent of Americans were effectively government parasites, looking for “big gifts” and “free stuff.” He famously argued against the bailout of the auto industry in an Op-Ed titled “Let Detroit Go Bankrupt.”

Now he’s handing out cash.

Good.  He has a brain and realizes that this situation dictates a different response.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on March 19, 2020, 07:33:12 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 19, 2020, 07:22:35 PM

Oof. Are you under quarantine?

Was at the office Monday, working from home since. Have made quick Target runs, etc through yesterday. Even got a haircut yesterday just AFTER they were “shut down”.

With the positive case in my building, my plan is to stay put. Might** drive out to my townhome where I have a thermometer just do I can better monitor myself.., but otherwise, should be able to just be in the apartment 24/7.

If I go out I’m getting near NO ONE. I think restrictions are gonna get waaay tighter in the coming days.

Whoever has it at my address better keep their ass in their apartment.., but truth we probably all should. Ugh

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 19, 2020, 07:42:48 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 19, 2020, 07:23:40 PM

California health officials estimate half their population, 25.5 million people, could be infected in the next 2 months. I've been skeptical of projections this whole time, but this one strikes me as borderline irresponsible. Maybe an attempt to get disproportionate federal aid? I have a hard time believing that California officials truly believe it's likely that their state will represent a more than 100x increase in cases in just 8 weeks.

https://abc7.com/6028718/ (https://abc7.com/6028718/)

The only thing I can guess, is that they have survey tests out and are realizing that their testing program is missing like 90% of the cases, so that there are a lot of cases out there multiplying.

Otherwise I agree, a bit irresponsible as it creates unnecessary hysteria.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 19, 2020, 07:55:24 PM

Trump just asked states not to report unemployment claim numbers.

Real leadership!!

Just remember, everything is about me.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 19, 2020, 08:04:16 PM

Add Georgia Senator Kelly Loeffler to the January stock sell after January briefing that included Fauci's presence.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/sen-kelly-loeffler-dumped-millions-in-stock-after-coronavirus-briefing

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HouWarrior on March 19, 2020, 08:18:34 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 19, 2020, 07:23:40 PM

California health officials estimate half their population, 25.5 million people, could be infected in the next 2 months. I've been skeptical of projections this whole time, but this one strikes me as borderline irresponsible. Maybe an attempt to get disproportionate federal aid? I have a hard time believing that California officials truly believe it's likely that their state will represent a more than 100x increase in cases in just 8 weeks.

https://abc7.com/6028718/ (https://abc7.com/6028718/)

In less than 8 weeks we saw exponential growth exceeding this rate...why would California model less?....

- January 19: 100 cases
- January 24: 1,000 cases
- January 28: 5,000 cases
- February 12: 50,000 cases
- March 6: 100,000 cases
- March 14: 150,000 cases
- March 18: 200,000 cases
- March 19: 225,000 cases
(credit Hards post above*)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU_Warrior44 on March 19, 2020, 08:22:36 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 19, 2020, 07:23:40 PM

California health officials estimate half their population, 25.5 million people, could be infected in the next 2 months. I've been skeptical of projections this whole time, but this one strikes me as borderline irresponsible. Maybe an attempt to get disproportionate federal aid? I have a hard time believing that California officials truly believe it's likely that their state will represent a more than 100x increase in cases in just 8 weeks.

https://abc7.com/6028718/ (https://abc7.com/6028718/)

California currently has about 1,000 cases. It doubles every 6 days. It can hit 2 million in 2 months, and 33 million by the end of month three. Extreme and conservative estimating? Hopefully.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 19, 2020, 08:30:47 PM

So I have a question regarding this Level 4 travel notice asking all Americans to come home from abroad.

I have a son who moved to Japan in January. He has a job and an apartment. His mom is freaking out and wants him home now. He said no deal and isn’t answering my texts right now.

I’ve had to deal with a lot this week. But this is putting me on edge right now. How serious is this?  Especially since he is due home in June?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Sir Lawrence on March 19, 2020, 08:32:58 PM

I apologize if this has already been posted, but didn’t have time to read through all posts today.  And I am not advocating, just posting something shared with me from an ER doc who also said he wishes the centuries old pandemic would return to his hospital:  drunks doing stupid sheet.

Stanford Professor: Data Indicates We’re Severely Overreacting To Coronavirus


https://www.dailywire.com/news/stanford-professor-data-indicates-were-overreacting-to-coronavirus

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 19, 2020, 08:35:29 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 19, 2020, 08:30:47 PM

So I have a question regarding this Level 4 travel notice asking all Americans to come home from abroad.

I have a son who moved to Japan in January. He has a job and an apartment. His mom is freaking out and wants him home now. He said no deal and isn’t answering my texts right now.

I’ve had to deal with a lot this week. But this is putting me on edge right now. How serious is this?  Especially since he is due home in June?

Personally I would stay in Asia.  They are taking this very seriously. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 19, 2020, 08:46:46 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 19, 2020, 08:35:29 PM

Personally I would stay in Asia.  They are taking this very seriously.

Yeah I'd sit tight in the country that has respect for each other, and isn't more likely to descend into chaos.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 19, 2020, 08:48:51 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 19, 2020, 08:46:46 PM

Yeah I'd sit tight in the country that has respect for each other, and isn't more likely to descend into chaos.

Alright. I’ll let you tell his mom that. 🤪🤪🤪

But thanks. It’s been a day. It’s a been a week.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 19, 2020, 08:50:30 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 19, 2020, 08:35:29 PM

Personally I would stay in Asia.  They are taking this very seriously.

My thoughts too. I’d be much more concerned if your son was in Europe.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on March 19, 2020, 08:54:59 PM

Glow jr., who works for FEMA in Seattle, just texted us that California is going to mandate shelter in place. He thinks Washington will be next.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 19, 2020, 09:02:12 PM

Quote from: Sir Lawrence on March 19, 2020, 08:32:58 PM

I apologize if this has already been posted, but didn’t have time to read through all posts today.  And I am not advocating, just posting something shared with me from an ER doc who also said he wishes the centuries old pandemic would return to his hospital:  drunks doing stupid sheet.

Stanford Professor: Data Indicates We’re Severely Overreacting To Coronavirus


https://www.dailywire.com/news/stanford-professor-data-indicates-were-overreacting-to-coronavirus

Like most things, the answer likely resides somewhere in the middle. But even around 0.1% fatality rate we'd be looking at 100-200k deaths in the US depending on how much of the population is infected. And, if those cases happen close temporally, double to triple the number of deaths due to shortages in medical care.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 19, 2020, 09:02:44 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on March 19, 2020, 08:54:59 PM

Glow jr., who works for FEMA in Seattle, just texted us that California is going to mandate shelter in place. He thinks Washington will be next.

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1240816454901157889

BNO Newsroom
@BNODesk
BREAKING: California Governor Newsom issues statewide stay-at-home order, but says it won't be enforced by police

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Eldon on March 19, 2020, 09:07:22 PM

What's the point of these "shelter-in-place" orders if it's not enforceable by police?

Seems like everyone already is doing shelter in place.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 19, 2020, 09:08:21 PM

Have him stay in Japan.
I heard on my drive home today that the Japanese and Korean professional baseball leagues were starting back up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Eldon on March 19, 2020, 09:13:13 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 19, 2020, 07:55:24 PM

Trump just asked states not to report unemployment claim numbers.

Real leadership!!

Just remember, everything is about me.

Source?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 19, 2020, 09:17:29 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 19, 2020, 08:04:16 PM

Add Georgia Senator Kelly Loeffler to the January stock sell after January briefing that included Fauci's presence.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/sen-kelly-loeffler-dumped-millions-in-stock-after-coronavirus-briefing

Jim Inhofe and Ron Johnson have been added to the list, per Steven Dennis of the AP. Not a particular good few days for Wisconsin Senator Ron Johnson, who like Inhofe, voted down a COVID-19 relief bill.

Johnson had this quote earlier this week:

https://twitter.com/tripgabriel/status/1240368940951506949?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 19, 2020, 09:31:09 PM

Quote from: Eldon on March 19, 2020, 09:13:13 PM

Source?

New York Times

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Chili on March 19, 2020, 09:34:41 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 19, 2020, 08:46:46 PM

Yeah I'd sit tight in the country that has respect for each other, and isn't more likely to descend into chaos.

Also a country where TP has been done away with. Bless you Japanese toilets!!! Why aren't they the standard? TP is so freaking 1900's.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 19, 2020, 09:37:16 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 19, 2020, 08:30:47 PM

So I have a question regarding this Level 4 travel notice asking all Americans to come home from abroad.

I have a son who moved to Japan in January. He has a job and an apartment. His mom is freaking out and wants him home now. He said no deal and isn’t answering my texts right now.

I’ve had to deal with a lot this week. But this is putting me on edge right now. How serious is this?  Especially since he is due home in June?

He can get home anytime. But, he will not be able to return anytime soon.

A friend's daughter (from Racine, but living in Hungary) is visiting her parents with her 4 kids ages 6 and under and now she can't go back home. Gonna be tight quarters for who knows how long. Plus her husband who was going to follow her here a few days later is not allowed to come now since he is a Hungarian citizen.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 19, 2020, 09:40:27 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 19, 2020, 09:17:29 PM

Jim Inhofe and Ron Johnson have been added to the list, per Steven Dennis of the AP. Not a particular good few days for Wisconsin Senator Ron Johnson, who like Inhofe, voted down a COVID-19 relief bill.

Johnson had this quote earlier this week:

https://twitter.com/tripgabriel/status/1240368940951506949?s=19

I do see something each of them has in common.  :-\

Seriously, though, I expect to see a few Dems on the list pretty soon. They've got a few lowlifes as well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 19, 2020, 09:42:41 PM

Quote from: houwarrior on March 19, 2020, 08:18:34 PM

In less than 8 weeks we saw exponential growth exceeding this rate...why would California model less?....

- January 19: 100 cases
- January 24: 1,000 cases
- January 28: 5,000 cases
- February 12: 50,000 cases
- March 6: 100,000 cases
- March 14: 150,000 cases
- March 18: 200,000 cases
- March 19: 225,000 cases
(credit Hards post above*)

I would believe that it can double every six days with no prevention and up to a point. The tracking you showed above isn't supportive of a continuous doubling every 6 days if we start with the Feb 12 cases. There are plateaus involved in there in certain places.

The hard part of all this is just how trustworthy the data is. We know the numbers are under-reported due to limited testing. In the above list, I think we would all agree that there were far, far more than just 100 cases globally on Jan 19 even if that was the reported number. Even if that is close to right, I still question whether the notion of a doubling every 6 days is really to be expected once we get to higher and higher numbers. Won't the growth plateau at a certain point? Won't the weakest immune systems get hit hard early, causing growth to slow when it hits the stronger immune systems?

And then you have to throw in mitigation measures. We are actively taking steps to slow this thing down. Shouldn't that factor into California's numbers? The growth they referenced in the statement seems like it's based on higher than observed growth rates, but California is taking some of the strongest containment measures. Either they have no faith in the strict actions they're enacting, or they're BS-ing their numbers. Either way, it shows a lack of transparency that I think is unacceptable right now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 19, 2020, 09:45:49 PM

Quote from: Chili on March 19, 2020, 09:34:41 PM

Also a country where TP has been done away with. Bless you Japanese toilets!!! Why aren't they the standard? TP is so freaking 1900's.

I got a retail data report this week saying TP stock ups was a big thing in Japan lately.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/02/29/national/toilet-paper-tissue-coronavirus/#.XnQuH8jYqlc (https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/02/29/national/toilet-paper-tissue-coronavirus/#.XnQuH8jYqlc)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 19, 2020, 09:47:40 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 19, 2020, 09:40:27 PM

I do see something each of them has in common.  :-\

Seriously, though, I expect to see a few Dems on the list pretty soon. They've got a few lowlifes as well.

At least make an effort like the rest of us to keep the snarky politics out of it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 19, 2020, 09:55:52 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 19, 2020, 09:42:41 PM

I would believe that it can double every six days with no prevention and up to a point. The tracking you showed above isn't supportive of a continuous doubling every 6 days if we start with the Feb 12 cases. There are plateaus involved in there in certain places.

The hard part of all this is just how trustworthy the data is. We know the numbers are under-reported due to limited testing. In the above list, I think we would all agree that there were far, far more than just 100 cases globally on Jan 19 even if that was the reported number. Even if that is close to right, I still question whether the notion of a doubling every 6 days is really to be expected once we get to higher and higher numbers. Won't the growth plateau at a certain point? Won't the weakest immune systems get hit hard early, causing growth to slow when it hits the stronger immune systems?

And then you have to throw in mitigation measures. We are actively taking steps to slow this thing down. Shouldn't that factor into California's numbers? The growth they referenced in the statement seems like it's based on higher than observed growth rates, but California is taking some of the strongest containment measures. Either they have no faith in the strict actions they're enacting, or they're BS-ing their numbers. Either way, it shows a lack of transparency that I think is unacceptable right now.

The virus has likely been spreading around at least two weeks prior to first death.  Which was Feb 29th.  Two weeks earlier was Feb 15th.  So now for almost a month this bug has been flying around infecting people all over the place.  And if those first people were in airports ( you know they were) then this bug was all over the US much faster than we thought.  It ran unchecked for 3 weeks before we even talked about social distancing.  Thats 3 weeks of people touching stuff, coughing, handshakes, hugs, and normal human to human contact.  If the original US carrier was a super carrier then its even further.

You need to stop trying to think about confirmed cases as total cases.  Confirmed cases are what we know with extremely limited testing.  I dont know how else to lut this without sounding like a jerk.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 19, 2020, 09:57:32 PM

Quote from: Sir Lawrence on March 19, 2020, 08:32:58 PM

I apologize if this has already been posted, but didn’t have time to read through all posts today.  And I am not advocating, just posting something shared with me from an ER doc who also said he wishes the centuries old pandemic would return to his hospital:  drunks doing stupid sheet.

Stanford Professor: Data Indicates We’re Severely Overreacting To Coronavirus


https://www.dailywire.com/news/stanford-professor-data-indicates-were-overreacting-to-coronavirus

Interesting.  if we trusted the numbers in china from the start i wonder if this would be playing out differently

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 19, 2020, 10:10:17 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 19, 2020, 09:55:52 PM

The virus has likely been spreading around at least two weeks prior to first death.  Which was Feb 29th.  Two weeks earlier was Feb 15th.  So now for almost a month this bug has been flying around infecting people all over the place.  And if those first people were in airports ( you know they were) then this bug was all over the US much faster than we thought.  It ran unchecked for 3 weeks before we even talked about social distancing.  Thats 3 weeks of people touching stuff, coughing, handshakes, hugs, and normal human to human contact.  If the original US carrier was a super carrier then its even further.

You need to stop trying to think about confirmed cases as total cases.  Confirmed cases are what we know with extremely limited testing.  I dont know how else to lut this without sounding like a jerk.

I know confirmed cases isn't accurate for total cases. Maybe it's just that I can't wrap my head around a number like 25 million people infected in just one state. Maybe it's just me.

But when  the governor of California comes out and makes a statement saying he expects more than half his state's population to be infected when we haven't seen any scenarios anywhere close to that anywhere in the world, I would expect those numbers to be pretty solid. They better be based on real data. And so far, the real data, even extrapolations of the data we have, doesn't seem to confirm the CA 8 week estimate.

Do you think that's a reasonable/likely/supported number?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on March 19, 2020, 10:25:10 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 19, 2020, 10:10:17 PM

I know confirmed cases isn't accurate for total cases. Maybe it's just that I can't wrap my head around a number like 25 million people infected in just one state. Maybe it's just me.

But when  the governor of California comes out and makes a statement saying he expects more than half his state's population to be infected when we haven't seen any scenarios anywhere close to that anywhere in the world, I would expect those numbers to be pretty solid. They better be based on real data. And so far, the real data, even extrapolations of the data we have, doesn't seem to confirm the CA 8 week estimate.

Do you think that's a reasonable/likely/supported number?

It’s within a reasonable range of possibilities. I have a confirmed case at my effin address.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Chili on March 19, 2020, 10:27:03 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 19, 2020, 09:31:09 PM

New York Times

Looking at 2.25MM jobless claims next week. 10x increase.

https://twitter.com/biancoresearch/status/1240841141739827201 (https://twitter.com/biancoresearch/status/1240841141739827201)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 19, 2020, 10:49:59 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on March 19, 2020, 10:25:10 PM

It’s within a reasonable range of possibilities. I have a confirmed case at my effin address.

Using the doubling every 6 days math, CA is assuming they have 50,000 actual cases today, compared to the roughly 1,000 confirmed cases. Is 50x a possible multiplier to calculate actual cases? Maybe. But then it also must also assume no mitigation impact. I have a harder time buying into that piece.

Newsom doesn't even say "up to" 25 million "could" become infected. No qualifiers or caveats. This is presented as the actual projection.

https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/3.18.20-Letter-USNS-Mercy-Hospital-Ship.pdf (https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/3.18.20-Letter-USNS-Mercy-Hospital-Ship.pdf)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on March 19, 2020, 11:05:48 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 19, 2020, 10:49:59 PM

Using the doubling every 6 days math, CA is assuming they have 50,000 actual cases today, compared to the roughly 1,000 confirmed cases. Is 50x a possible multiplier to calculate actual cases? Maybe. But then it also must also assume no mitigation impact. I have a harder time buying into that piece.

Newsom doesn't even say "up to" 25 million "could" become infected. No qualifiers or caveats. This is presented as the actual projection.

https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/3.18.20-Letter-USNS-Mercy-Hospital-Ship.pdf (https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/3.18.20-Letter-USNS-Mercy-Hospital-Ship.pdf)

Hey, a lot of people are pooh poohing this so you’re not alone. But I think you’re not being wise. It’s going to get so much worse.

I couldn’t care less about the reported numbers now because my belief is that many, MANY more are infected.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 19, 2020, 11:34:30 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on March 19, 2020, 11:05:48 PM

Hey, a lot of people are pooh poohing this so you’re not alone. But I think you’re not being wise. It’s going to get so much worse.

I couldn’t care less about the reported numbers now because my belief is that many, MANY more are infected.

I'm still following all the suggested guidelines. I'm not taking any chances for myself, and I definitely don't want to be part of making it worse for anyone else. I just question some of the numbers being shared given the implications they have in all of our lives now and the effects they could have for months/years to come.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on March 19, 2020, 11:42:55 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 19, 2020, 11:34:30 PM

I'm still following all the suggested guidelines. I'm not taking any chances for myself, and I definitely don't want to be part of making it worse for anyone else. I just question some of the numbers being shared given the implications they have in all of our lives now and the effects they could have for months/years to come.

Understood. I think if people were being honest... the answer wouldn't be a great one for people to hear... but... the real answer I think is, "I have no effin idea, but believe it could be staggering as f***."

I feel a big % of scoopers will have it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on March 20, 2020, 12:10:32 AM

Quote from: Jay Bee on March 19, 2020, 11:05:48 PM

Hey, a lot of people are pooh poohing this so you’re not alone. But I think you’re not being wise. It’s going to get so much worse.

I couldn’t care less about the reported numbers now because my belief is that many, MANY more are infected.

Yep. Look no further than WI statistics. 2 cases in Brown County today. First ones. Both community spread. That means the real number is MUCH, much higher.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 20, 2020, 05:55:36 AM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 19, 2020, 10:10:17 PM

I know confirmed cases isn't accurate for total cases. Maybe it's just that I can't wrap my head around a number like 25 million people infected in just one state. Maybe it's just me.

But when  the governor of California comes out and makes a statement saying he expects more than half his state's population to be infected when we haven't seen any scenarios anywhere close to that anywhere in the world, I would expect those numbers to be pretty solid. They better be based on real data. And so far, the real data, even extrapolations of the data we have, doesn't seem to confirm the CA 8 week estimate.

Do you think that's a reasonable/likely/supported number?

Ah, I see, maybe you're setting your timeline too short.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: DomJamesToTheBasket on March 20, 2020, 06:07:36 AM

Quote from: Jay Bee on March 19, 2020, 11:42:55 PM

Understood. I think if people were being honest... the answer wouldn't be a great one for people to hear... but... the real answer I think is, "I have no effin idea, but believe it could be staggering as f***."

I feel a big % of scoopers will have it.

Ohio Director of Health said they believed 1% of their population was currently infected when they has a mere FIVE confirmed cases several days ago

Indiana Director of Health said they believed 0.9% of their population was currently infected when they had a similar number confirmed cases a few days ago

President of the region of Madrid stated she believed 80% will be infected a day ago

Governor of California stated he believed 56% of California will be infected a day ago

Anecdotally, family friend that lives in Bergamo Italy believes around 80% are currently infected there.  They have been on lockdown for some time.  She, her husband and 2 kids are sick with mild symptoms.  They believe they are infected, however, they have no access to testing.

This virus is all over the damn place

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 20, 2020, 07:41:23 AM

Quote from: GB Warrior on March 20, 2020, 12:10:32 AM

Yep. Look no further than WI statistics. 2 cases in Brown County today. First ones. Both community spread. That means the real number is MUCH, much higher.

and if infected cases include those with no symptoms then i think the projected numbers are a good estimate.  I think so many see the huge numbers and think those are all the people that will need hospital attention and right away say no way those numbers cannot be true.
Then you look at the numbers in china.  not a chance a country of that size did not break 100k yet.  On the bright side you have South Korea who has seemed to keep this under control

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 20, 2020, 07:56:06 AM

The thing to remember is because testing is only for those who are critical, we are only really seeing those that are experiencing the worst outcome. That means it is much widely spread, people already have it but are asymptomatic or experiencing mild symptoms. My wife's hospital added 6 ICU/Covid patients over the last 3 days but all of them have significant comorbides (including the 23 year old).

The one thing I do wonder about is if this is going to be like 9/11 where the first responders and the ones who worked ground zero will be disproportionately impacted by overly negative results.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on March 20, 2020, 08:45:28 AM

Isn't the truth that this will eventually spread to practically everyone hence the need to slow down the spread so the medical community can handle this better?

I'm under the assumption that eventually we all will likely be exposed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 20, 2020, 08:50:10 AM

Quote from: Greggery Peccary on March 20, 2020, 08:45:28 AM

Isn't the truth that this will eventually spread to practically everyone hence the need to slow down the spread so the medical community can handle this better?

I'm under the assumption that eventually we all will likely be exposed.

That's correct.  The reason that people say 80% will get it is because at a certain point, the virus runs out of hosts to carry it, and it will naturally slow down.  If you remove 80% of the carriers, then the numbers have to come down.

This is why we slow it.  If we can get the 80% infected over a year to eighteen months, we can keep our healthcare workers safe, and our supplies for them available.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 20, 2020, 08:50:16 AM

Interesting article about test development. Shows how some countries (notably SK, Singapore and Australia) handled the test development quickly and decisively, while others (notably Italy and the US) were slowed by denial and political infighting.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/20/world/europe/coronavirus-testing-per-country.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: DomJamesToTheBasket on March 20, 2020, 08:59:55 AM

Quote from: Greggery Peccary on March 20, 2020, 08:45:28 AM

Isn't the truth that this will eventually spread to practically everyone hence the need to slow down the spread so the medical community can handle this better?

I'm under the assumption that eventually we all will likely be exposed.

At this point it appears unstoppable, as far as I'm concerned.  It will be interesting to see how China, Japan, and South Korea reluctantly re-introduce it into their countries......assuming they stop it before realizing the rest of the world can't.  China essentially has already stopped it.  Life is slowly returning to a new normal here in Shenzhen.  More and more businesses opening back up each day.  More and more people getting back into their normal routines, but I suspect mask enforcement will not be going away anytime soon, as well as the temperature checks everywhere.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 20, 2020, 10:17:04 AM

Quote from: DomJamesToTheBasket on March 20, 2020, 06:07:36 AM

Ohio Director of Health said they believed 1% of their population was currently infected when they has a mere FIVE confirmed cases several days ago

Indiana Director of Health said they believed 0.9% of their population was currently infected when they had a similar number confirmed cases a few days ago

President of the region of Madrid stated she believed 80% will be infected a day ago

Governor of California stated he believed 56% of California will be infected a day ago

Anecdotally, family friend that lives in Bergamo Italy believes around 80% are currently infected there.  They have been on lockdown for some time.  She, her husband and 2 kids are sick with mild symptoms.  They believe they are infected, however, they have no access to testing.

This virus is all over the damn place

I don't believe Ohio's or Indiana's estimates. But based on the deaths/deathrate Italy likely has a crapton of undiagnosed cases They likely have 200-400k cases right now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on March 20, 2020, 10:41:29 AM

State of New York shut down.  Business impacts are gonna be significant.  We'll see

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 20, 2020, 11:13:33 AM

2 months ago today, first COVID-19 case reported in U.S.

Similar questions remain...where are the:

Military
Tests
Masks
Ventilators

So much ignored and downplayed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 20, 2020, 12:05:39 PM

I had a call from my company's aluminum supplier yesterday. 
He heard through the grapevine that the current aluminum flat wire manufacturer for the nose fit wire on the N95 mask was at capacity and was unable to increase production further.  He expected my company to be contacted about supplementing wire production. 
 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 20, 2020, 12:20:28 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 20, 2020, 11:13:33 AM

2 months ago today, first COVID-19 case reported in U.S.

Similar questions remain...where are the:

Military
Tests
Masks
Ventilators

So much ignored and downplayed.

Military?
What's the army's role here?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on March 20, 2020, 12:45:45 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 20, 2020, 12:20:28 PM

Military?
What's the army's role here?

Shock and awe?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 20, 2020, 12:49:05 PM

Quote from: Retire0 on March 20, 2020, 12:45:45 PM

Shock and awe?

MOABs to NYC and Seattle?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 20, 2020, 12:57:32 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 20, 2020, 12:20:28 PM

Military?
What's the army's role here?

Supply doctors
Construct field hospitals for overcrowding
Operate testing sites

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 20, 2020, 01:13:18 PM

Quote from: Coleman on March 20, 2020, 12:57:32 PM

Supply doctors
Construct field hospitals for overcrowding
Operate testing sites

Some of this already is occurring, and some is barred by law.
Not sure about constructing field hospitals.  Why would troops do that more effectively and efficiently than private sector firms?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Chili on March 20, 2020, 01:24:31 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 20, 2020, 01:13:18 PM

Some of this already is occurring, and some is barred by law.
Not sure about constructing field hospitals.  Why would troops do that more effectively and efficiently than private sector firms?

This is what the national guard does.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 20, 2020, 01:30:42 PM

Corp of Engineers

Army hospital ships

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 20, 2020, 01:40:19 PM

Quote from: Coleman on March 20, 2020, 12:57:32 PM

Supply doctors
Construct field hospitals for overcrowding
Operate testing sites

Empty dorms make great makeshift hospitals

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 20, 2020, 01:41:53 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 20, 2020, 01:40:19 PM

Empty dorms make great makeshift hospitals

Except, right or wrong, I would imagine that would make many families extremely anxious about returning their children to the dorms afterwards.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 20, 2020, 01:45:15 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 20, 2020, 01:41:53 PM

Except, right or wrong, I would imagine that would make many families extremely anxious about returning their children to the dorms afterwards.

I mean, they'll be hospitals so when they're done, the cleaning will be better than anything a cleaning service does in the summer.

Plus even if nothing is done, the virus can't live long enough to be problematic.  Hope we don't have to use them for more than a week or two.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 20, 2020, 01:47:30 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 20, 2020, 01:40:19 PM

Empty dorms make great makeshift hospitals

I'd be surprised if a typical dorm room has the technological infrastructure to handle necessary medical equipment or the physical structure needed to safely quarantine patients.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 20, 2020, 01:47:47 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 20, 2020, 01:40:19 PM

Empty dorms make great makeshift hospitals

Lack of your own bathroom makes that a non starter for most of them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on March 20, 2020, 01:59:22 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 20, 2020, 01:47:47 PM

Lack of your own bathroom makes that a non starter for most of them.

Imagine some hotels could be looking for some business

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 20, 2020, 02:03:31 PM

Quote from: reinko on March 20, 2020, 01:59:22 PM

Imagine some hotels could be looking for some business

That has been brought up in New York.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 20, 2020, 02:08:19 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 20, 2020, 01:47:47 PM

Lack of your own bathroom makes that a non starter for most of them.

A fair number of them have that though. Just at MU....Straz, Mashuda, Carpenter, Abbottsford

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 20, 2020, 02:11:44 PM

Italy with almost 6k new cases today. Either they have increased testing, or people aren't following orders.

Possibly worst case, it is spreading through ventilation, so the quarantine isn't helping.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 20, 2020, 02:16:09 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 20, 2020, 02:11:44 PM

Italy with almost 6k new cases today. Either they have increased testing, or people aren't following orders.

Possibly worst case, it is spreading through ventilation, so the quarantine isn't helping.

The numbers in the pinned chart haven't changed for France, where based on the public's poo-pooing of the virus and refusing to self-quarantine, I would expect to follow a similar pattern to Italy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 20, 2020, 02:19:54 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 20, 2020, 02:11:44 PM

Italy with almost 6k new cases today. Either they have increased testing, or people aren't following orders.

Possibly worst case, it is spreading through ventilation, so the quarantine isn't helping.

An American living in Rome was on CNN last night. She said that, despite orders to stay at home except for emergencies, it looks nearly like business as usual there. She even said the subway was still running. Sounds like Italians don't take kindly to people telling them what to do.

IMHO - one of the reasons for more successful containment in Asia than Europe is that Asians respect (or perhaps fear) authority, while Europeans don't. The US seems to be somewhere in the middle, with a lean toward the European attitude.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 20, 2020, 02:22:04 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 20, 2020, 02:16:09 PM

The numbers in the pinned chart haven't changed for France, where based on the public's poo-pooing of the virus and refusing to self-quarantine, I would expect to follow a similar pattern to Italy.

About 1600 new cases in France today. Who knows about testing though. Based on the number of deaths, and serious/critical patients though, it would appear they have a ton of missed cases.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 20, 2020, 02:22:40 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 20, 2020, 01:47:47 PM

Lack of your own bathroom makes that a non starter for most of them.

When people on quarantine and under observation, they can use communal bathrooms.  If everyone is sick, no one is sick!

Also, when the people start piling up in hallways hospitals will look for open places... even better if they are publicly owned.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 20, 2020, 03:25:38 PM

I thought this might be of interest, given the persistent lack of testing capabilities for covid-19.

Here in Rochester, Mayo Clinic has ramped up its testing capabilities to about 4,000 specimens/day, and currently operated two drive-through collection sites. To move a step further, it is partnering with our local public health office and a smaller medical facility in town (Olmsted Medical Center) to pilot a "large-scale" collection facility at our county fairgrounds. The article below doesn't specify what they mean by "large-scale," but hopefully supply will finally begin to catch up with demand...at least around here.

https://www.medcitybeat.com/news-blog/2020/county-omc-mayo-clinic-joint-testing-site

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 20, 2020, 03:57:35 PM

Quote

BNO Newsroom
@BNODesk
·
1h
UPDATE: Madagascar reports first 3 cases of coronavirus

Game over, man!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on March 20, 2020, 05:05:05 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 20, 2020, 01:40:19 PM

Empty dorms make great makeshift hospitals

This will help recruiting.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 20, 2020, 05:10:35 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 20, 2020, 03:25:38 PM

I thought this might be of interest, given the persistent lack of testing capabilities for covid-19.

Here in Rochester, Mayo Clinic has ramped up its testing capabilities to about 4,000 specimens/day, and currently operated two drive-through collection sites. To move a step further, it is partnering with our local public health office and a smaller medical facility in town (Olmsted Medical Center) to pilot a "large-scale" collection facility at our county fairgrounds. The article below doesn't specify what they mean by "large-scale," but hopefully supply will finally begin to catch up with demand...at least around here.

https://www.medcitybeat.com/news-blog/2020/county-omc-mayo-clinic-joint-testing-site

Great that they are testing that many. Do they also have enough labs to process that many tests?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 20, 2020, 05:16:39 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 20, 2020, 05:10:35 PM

Great that they are testing that many. Do they also have enough labs to process that many tests?

The answer is in the link.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 20, 2020, 05:23:42 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 20, 2020, 05:10:35 PM

Great that they are testing that many. Do they also have enough labs to process that many tests?

They can currently test 4,000/day, and are working on increasing capacity further.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 20, 2020, 05:27:04 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 20, 2020, 05:23:42 PM

They can currently test 4,000/day, and are working on increasing capacity further.

Gracias!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 20, 2020, 05:53:43 PM

I'd like to point out that we just passed the total number of deaths from Ebola without signs of slowing.

Ebola was 11,323 total.  At the time of this posting, the John's Hopkins tracker hasn't recorded the ones that have passed it, but it should be there shortly.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 20, 2020, 06:18:07 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 20, 2020, 05:53:43 PM

I'd like to point out that we just passed the total number of deaths from Ebola without signs of slowing.

Ebola was 11,323 total.  At the time of this posting, the John's Hopkins tracker hasn't recorded the ones that have passed it, but it should be there shortly.

I'm not sure these comparisons mean much.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 20, 2020, 06:23:02 PM

Quote from: Coleman on March 20, 2020, 06:18:07 PM

I'm not sure these comparisons mean much.

sorry, I'll do better next time.

(https://i.redd.it/vyaoukcj5un41.png)

We worried yet?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 20, 2020, 07:59:26 PM

Italy making progress.....

 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/20/health/coronavirus-data-logarithm-chart.html?smtyp=cur&smid=fb-nytimes (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/20/health/coronavirus-data-logarithm-chart.html?smtyp=cur&smid=fb-nytimes)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Marquette Gyros on March 20, 2020, 08:10:27 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 20, 2020, 07:59:26 PM

Italy making progress.....

 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/20/health/coronavirus-data-logarithm-chart.html?smtyp=cur&smid=fb-nytimes (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/20/health/coronavirus-data-logarithm-chart.html?smtyp=cur&smid=fb-nytimes)

NYC not making progress:

https://apple.news/Ada0L5ntyQ92sk-wA8gVELg

Javits Center or MSG turning into coronavirus hospitals?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 20, 2020, 08:12:12 PM

Quote from: Marquette Gyros on March 20, 2020, 08:10:27 PM

NYC not making progress:

https://apple.news/Ada0L5ntyQ92sk-wA8gVELg

Javits Center or MSG turning into coronavirus hospitals?

We just started locking down. I pray this will impact things in 1-2 weeks. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 20, 2020, 08:53:28 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 20, 2020, 08:12:12 PM

We just started locking down. I pray this will impact things in 1-2 weeks.

This is from an investing site, but it suggests it takes 23-24 days for an infection to play out, so results of a lockdown take that long to be effective.  That would go towards explaining why Italy is not yet seeing any improvement.

The math is pretty dire here:
https://www.insidermonkey.com/blog/hell-is-coming-here-is-the-mathematical-proof-822824/
 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 20, 2020, 09:09:37 PM

The behind the scenes of the wasted two months:

https://twitter.com/jdawsey1/status/1241156349515440140?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 20, 2020, 09:23:12 PM

To give an idea on why people are so concerned about this in Italy, more people have died from COVID-19 since March 1st, then have died of the flu since October 2019.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 20, 2020, 11:40:40 PM

Here’s a blind taste test.

Leader A:  “I don’t take responsibility at all.”
Leader B: “I accept full responsibility”.

Which one would you choose? We have a severe, severe leadership crisis, people. People are dying every day because of the inaction, lying, and utter incompetence, and still people are afraid to speak out. Trump declares “We are not your shipping clerk” while hospitals beg citizens to see masks to give to hospitals so they can stop re-using them

If this gets me banned - so be it. PEOPLE ARE DYING!! Speak the f** k up!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: DomJamesToTheBasket on March 21, 2020, 12:19:04 AM

I hope this isn't taken as spam given the situation...

If anyone has contacts in need of large mask and/or other needed medical supplies,  you can contact me for buyer-to-factory direct purchases. I've been in the business for 10 years, lived in China for the past 8 years, and am currently in China.

stephen@magellan-imports.com

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 21, 2020, 12:29:49 AM

Quote from: Jockey on March 20, 2020, 11:40:40 PM

Here’s a blind taste test.

Leader A:  “I don’t take responsibility at all.”
Leader B: “I accept full responsibility”.

Which one would you choose? We have a severe, severe leadership crisis, people. People are dying every day because of the inaction, lying, and utter incompetence, and still people are afraid to speak out. Trump declares “We are not your shipping clerk” while hospitals beg citizens to see masks to give to hospitals so they can stop re-using them

If this gets me banned - so be it. PEOPLE ARE DYING!! Speak the f** k up!

Leader A is not a leader, but an insecure child. Truly terrifying.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 21, 2020, 02:21:55 AM

Quote from: Jockey on March 20, 2020, 11:40:40 PM

Here’s a blind taste test.

Leader A:  “I don’t take responsibility at all.”
Leader B: “I accept full responsibility”.

Which one would you choose? We have a severe, severe leadership crisis, people. People are dying every day because of the inaction, lying, and utter incompetence, and still people are afraid to speak out. Trump declares “We are not your shipping clerk” while hospitals beg citizens to see masks to give to hospitals so they can stop re-using them

If this gets me banned - so be it. PEOPLE ARE DYING!! Speak the f** k up!

Oh jock you are such a self righteous martyr.  Getting away with your usual, but I didn’t even say...you are lucky to be on the home team. Or you would be gone faster than you could say chicos

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 21, 2020, 07:11:13 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 21, 2020, 02:21:55 AM

Oh jock you are such a self righteous martyr.  Getting away with your usual, but I didn’t even say...you are lucky to be on the home team. Or you would be gone faster than you could say chicos

I agree that Jodkey gets to be a little much.  And his latest statement isn't helpful.

But he's not wrong.

And Cheeks was banned not because of what he said, but because he carpet bombed every single topic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on March 21, 2020, 07:34:24 AM

Quote from: Jockey on March 20, 2020, 11:40:40 PM

Here’s a blind taste test.

Leader A:  “I don’t take responsibility at all.”
Leader B: “I accept full responsibility”.

Which one would you choose? We have a severe, severe leadership crisis, people. People are dying every day because of the inaction, lying, and utter incompetence, and still people are afraid to speak out. Trump declares “We are not your shipping clerk” while hospitals beg citizens to see masks to give to hospitals so they can stop re-using them

If this gets me banned - so be it. PEOPLE ARE DYING!! Speak the f** k up!

A million things should get you banned; fortunately for you the mods have the same eff’d up views as you and have different rules for different people. Congrats, brandi

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 21, 2020, 08:04:30 AM

Elon Musk claims he'll be distributing 250K masks and 1K ventilators.  Hope this is real. Musk has a history of overly optimistic timelines, but good to see private citizens stepping in to fill the void.

https://cleantechnica.com/2020/03/21/elon-musk-should-have-1000-ventilators-next-week-250k-n95-masks-for-hospitals-tomorrow-cleantechnica-exclusive/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muwarrior69 on March 21, 2020, 08:12:22 AM

The map is so misleading. You would think every person in Europe has the virus with all that red. Even if there were a 1000 times more cases world wide that would only be about 4% of the population infected. I think people are concerned enough and should take precautions as we still know very little about the virus and how it spreads and how to treat it, but to exaggerate the outbreak of the virus in proportion to the population as the map does only causes more anxiety.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 21, 2020, 08:25:47 AM

FWIW...I don't view Jockey's comment as primarily political, but rather a statement about the seriously flawed personality of the person at the top.

Why? I disagreed with many of the policy positions of guys like Cruz or Jeb or Rubio...but I truly believe that if they had been elected, they would be doing the right thing today - assuming responsibility for the current crisis (regardless of "fault"), saying things to calm the country instead of to preserve his feeling of being "right," and generally acting with honesty and humility. Cruz or Jeb or Rubio would be honest with us, consistent in their messaging, relying on the experts, and trying to calm the public. And while I also didn't agree with many of Hillary's or Bernie's policy positions, I believe they would be doing the same as Cruz or Jeb or Rubio. The same that Bush did in the immediate shadow 9/11.

So no, I don't view it as political because this historic crisis transcends party lines. I view it as a statement about the fundamentally flawed personality of the person who happens to be at the top.

Just my 0.02.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 21, 2020, 08:44:05 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 21, 2020, 08:04:30 AM

Elon Musk claims he'll be distributing 250K masks and 1K ventilators.  Hope this is real. Musk has a history of overly optimistic timelines, but good to see private citizens stepping in to fill the void.

https://cleantechnica.com/2020/03/21/elon-musk-should-have-1000-ventilators-next-week-250k-n95-masks-for-hospitals-tomorrow-cleantechnica-exclusive/

GE Healthcare plant in Madison has gone to 24x7 operation to make ventilators and we're putting people in to support and resolve operational breakdowns in real time, all while people have minimal PPE available. May go unnoticed but this is where people in this country shine

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 21, 2020, 08:57:54 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 21, 2020, 08:44:05 AM

GE Healthcare plant in Madison has gone to 24x7 operation to make ventilators and we're putting people in to support and resolve operational breakdowns in real time, all while people have minimal PPE available. May go unnoticed but this is where people in this country shine

I see tons of social media posts thanking our nurses and doctors, for working with people, while everyone stays home.

We do not see the same "thank you" posts for our grocery clerks, delivery drivers, shipping teams, manufacturers, and sanitation workers, many of them making minimum wage, that are also having to work in close contact with people putting them at risk.

I tremendously appreciate the work the nurses and doctors are doing for us. They are at high risk, but at the same time, they signed up to do things exactly like this and at least in the case of doctors, are well compensated for it. The grocery clerk did not sign up for this, they are certainly not well compensated, so lets remember to shower some thanks on the unsung heroes keeping our nation afloat.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 21, 2020, 09:07:02 AM

Good short, video to share with those you know that still might not get it

https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1241225019952263170?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muwarrior69 on March 21, 2020, 09:08:01 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 21, 2020, 08:25:47 AM

FWIW...I don't view Jockey's comment as primarily political, but rather a statement about the seriously flawed personality of the person at the top.

Why? I disagreed with many of the policy positions of guys like Cruz or Jeb or Rubio...but I truly believe that if they had been elected, they would be doing the right thing today - assuming responsibility for the current crisis (regardless of "fault"), saying things to calm the country instead of to preserve his feeling of being "right," and generally acting with honesty and humility. Cruz or Jeb or Rubio would be honest with us, consistent in their messaging, relying on the experts, and trying to calm the public. And while I also didn't agree with many of Hillary's or Bernie's policy positions, I believe they would be doing the same as Cruz or Jeb or Rubio. The same that Bush did in the immediate shadow 9/11.

So no, I don't view it as political because this historic crisis transcends party lines. I view it as a statement about the fundamentally flawed personality of the person who happens to be at the top.

Just my 0.02.

How can you not separate politics and President Trump? If there is a failure of leadership, then all our leaders are failing. The Governor of California just closed all non-essential work in the state. Who determines what is essential and what is not? There can be a lot of unintended consequences with such a directive, but what alternative is there. This is not the time to fault our leaders regardless of our opinions of them. This is a serious crisis that not only affects our health but our livelihood as well. We should refrain from second guessing every decision they make. Lets hope we can all work together rather than pointing fingers at each other.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 21, 2020, 09:12:27 AM

Quote from: forgetful on March 21, 2020, 08:57:54 AM

I see tons of social media posts thanking our nurses and doctors, for working with people, while everyone stays home.

We do not see the same "thank you" posts for our grocery clerks, delivery drivers, shipping teams, manufacturers, and sanitation workers, many of them making minimum wage, that are also having to work in close contact with people putting them at risk.

I tremendously appreciate the work the nurses and doctors are doing for us. They are at high risk, but at the same time, they signed up to do things exactly like this and at least in the case of doctors, are well compensated for it. The grocery clerk did not sign up for this, they are certainly not well compensated, so lets remember to shower some thanks on the unsung heroes keeping our nation afloat.

True...and this applies to anyone who is deemed to work in an essential critical infrastructure service. In addition to those you mentioned, the people who keep the power and water safe and flowing, ensure access to internet and telephone services, and many more.

Also - thanks to everyone who has been acting responsibly, regardless of profession, but maintaining social distancing, staying home when the authorities tell you to stay home, and generally doing what you can to "flatten the curve."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 21, 2020, 09:14:48 AM

Quote from: muwarrior69 on March 21, 2020, 09:08:01 AM

How can you not separate politics and President Trump? If there is a failure of leadership, then all our leaders are failing. The Governor of California just closed all non-essential work in the state. Who determines what is essential and what is not? There can be a lot of unintended consequences with such a directive, but what alternative is there. This is not the time to fault our leaders regardless of our opinions of them. This is a serious crisis that not only affects our health but our livelihood as well. We should refrain from second guessing every decision they make. Lets hope we can all work together rather than pointing fingers at each other.

I agree with the sentiment. But when the person at the very top routinely engages in deflection and finger pointing instead of leadership and honesty, it's hard to keep the country on the same page.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on March 21, 2020, 09:17:33 AM

Tricky one for me is meal prep. I want to do curbside pickups because I’m supporting local restaurants and their employees. Plus, seems pretty safe. I open the car window and they throw food into it.

But, I do have to go in elevators and across the street to get to my car. In theory, safer to stay in and cook.

With that said, I think I’m going to carefully order & pickup a huge breakfast now

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 21, 2020, 09:29:46 AM

Quote from: muwarrior69 on March 21, 2020, 09:08:01 AM

How can you not separate politics and President Trump? If there is a failure of leadership, then all our leaders are failing. The Governor of California just closed all non-essential work in the state. Who determines what is essential and what is not? There can be a lot of unintended consequences with such a directive, but what alternative is there. This is not the time to fault our leaders regardless of our opinions of them. This is a serious crisis that not only affects our health but our livelihood as well. We should refrain from second guessing every decision they make. Lets hope we can all work together rather than pointing fingers at each other.

It is always time to fault our leaders.  That's what makes America great, not some red hat.  We hold our leaders accountable in real time because we aren't China.  We have open and honest conversations about failings, and people have too many we replace them.  We can all work together towards positive outcomes, WHILE STILL criticizing our leaders.  And its pretty hard to call someone a leader who has the title, but has none of the qualities.  Sorry if it ruffles some panties.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 21, 2020, 09:32:59 AM

Quote from: Jay Bee on March 21, 2020, 09:17:33 AM

Tricky one for me is meal prep. I want to do curbside pickups because I’m supporting local restaurants and their employees. Plus, seems pretty safe. I open the car window and they throw food into it.

But, I do have to go in elevators and across the street to get to my car. In theory, safer to stay in and cook.

With that said, I think I’m going to carefully order & pickup a huge breakfast now

Bring a pencil to push the buttons on the elevator, and some tissues to touch doors and handles that you are worried about.  Don't touch your face and wash your hands when you get home.  You should be fine.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 21, 2020, 09:34:37 AM

Quote from: muwarrior69 on March 21, 2020, 08:12:22 AM

The map is so misleading. You would think every person in Europe has the virus with all that red. Even if there were a 1000 times more cases world wide that would only be about 4% of the population infected. I think people are concerned enough and should take precautions as we still know very little about the virus and how it spreads and how to treat it, but to exaggerate the outbreak of the virus in proportion to the population as the map does only causes more anxiety.

It isn't misleading, you can zoom in on the map or click on the red dots to get more information.  Also, at this point we know quite a bit about the virus and it its transmission.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 21, 2020, 09:38:09 AM

The US now also has the shortest growth time constant (i.e. we have the fastest doubling rate). Maybe rivaled by Spain, but Spain is slowly increasing their doubling time, while the US growth time constant is holding steady (which is not a good thing).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Johnny B on March 21, 2020, 09:41:50 AM

Just to late. Many people ignore the guidelines. Does anyone really think we wont have at least 100 million cases when this is said done

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on March 21, 2020, 09:42:37 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 21, 2020, 09:32:59 AM

Bring a pencil to push the buttons on the elevator, and some tissues to touch doors and handles that you are worried about.  Don't touch your face and wash your hands when you get home.  You should be fine.

Rubber/latex gloves. Super useful for the scenarios mentioned

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 21, 2020, 09:49:21 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on March 21, 2020, 09:42:37 AM

Rubber/latex gloves. Super useful for the scenarios mentioned

Not everyone has them. :)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 21, 2020, 09:51:33 AM

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.14.20036178v1

Quote

The COVID-19 virus has spread worldwide in a matter of a few months. Healthcare systems struggle to monitor and report current cases. Limited capabilities in testing result in difficult to guide policies and mitigate lack of preparation. Since severe cases, which more likely lead to fatal outcomes, are detected at a higher percentage than mild cases, the reported death rates are likely inflated in most countries. Such under-estimation can be attributed to the under-sampling of infection cases and results in systematic death rate estimation biases. The method proposed here utilizes a benchmark country (South Korea) and its reported death rates in combination with population demographics to correct the reported COVID-19 case numbers. By applying a correction, we predict that the number of cases is highly under-reported in most countries. In the case of China, it is estimated that more than 700.000 cases of COVID-19 actually occurred instead of the confirmed 80,932 cases as of 3/13/2020.

Good news.  This would lower the CFR significantly.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on March 21, 2020, 09:54:47 AM

This is a really good article. Long but data driven and informative

https://medium.com/six-four-six-nine/evidence-over-hysteria-covid-19-1b767def5894

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 21, 2020, 09:55:33 AM

Quote from: Johnny B on March 21, 2020, 09:41:50 AM

Just to late. Many people ignore the guidelines. Does anyone really think we wont have at least 100 million cases when this is said done

Sad to say, but we will. The best we can hope for at this point is to flatten the curve enough to get more essential supplies and equipment to those on the front line.

It is too late to prevent this from being an enormous disaster. But it is never too late to help in any way we can. And for anyone who isn't already following the guidelines, the way to help is to start today.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 21, 2020, 09:58:04 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 21, 2020, 09:49:21 AM

Not everyone has them. :)

In the absence of rubber or latex gloves, I pull the end of my sleeve over my finger to push elevator buttons, open doors and the like. And I still thoroughly wash my hands whenever I can, just in case.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muwarrior69 on March 21, 2020, 10:05:46 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on March 21, 2020, 09:38:09 AM

The US now also has the shortest growth time constant (i.e. we have the fastest doubling rate). Maybe rivaled by Spain, but Spain is slowly increasing their doubling time, while the US growth time constant is holding steady (which is not a good thing).

I'm confused. Is that the number of testing has doubled or the actual spread has doubled?

How many that have been tested have tested negative or are they all positive. Just asking what were actually measuring here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 21, 2020, 10:11:45 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on March 21, 2020, 09:54:47 AM

This is a really good article. Long but data driven and informative

https://medium.com/six-four-six-nine/evidence-over-hysteria-covid-19-1b767def5894

Thank you for this.  This type of stuff leads me to believe that a good two-week isolation will really help slow this enough to get people back to doing somewhat normal things.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 21, 2020, 10:29:17 AM

Quote from: muwarrior69 on March 21, 2020, 10:05:46 AM

I'm confused. Is that the number of testing has doubled or the actual spread has doubled?

How many that have been tested have tested negative or are they all positive. Just asking what were actually measuring here.

Actual positive tests are doubling at a rate faster than anywhere else.
And we are among the slowest testing. So our actual number of cases may be doubling significantly faster than the rest of the world if we tested more.
That’s a really scary thought.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muwarrior69 on March 21, 2020, 10:32:49 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on March 21, 2020, 09:54:47 AM

This is a really good article. Long but data driven and informative

https://medium.com/six-four-six-nine/evidence-over-hysteria-covid-19-1b767def5894

Yes, thanks. The article actually demonstrates how misleading the map above actually is.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 21, 2020, 10:39:42 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 21, 2020, 09:51:33 AM

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.14.20036178v1

Good news.  This would lower the CFR significantly.

I agree that there is a ton of under-reporting, but that paper makes some invalid assumptions, and is missing a lot of variables. I don't think it survives peer-review.

Also, for the lay people, any articles from sites with rxiv.org as the ending, are not peer reviewed yet, so they could be highly inaccurate. I think this article's message is roughly true, their methods though are flawed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 21, 2020, 10:44:28 AM

Yeah that paper makes some massive leaps and discounts important factors.
When they say we are doing about the same as Italy, that is not a good thing.
It also ignores the hospital bed factor. We have less beds per person than those other countries.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 21, 2020, 10:44:29 AM

Harry Moroz
@hrmoroz
For the average American the best way to tell if you have covid-19 is to cough in a rich person’s face and wait for their test results

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 21, 2020, 10:48:13 AM

Quote from: Jay Bee on March 21, 2020, 09:17:33 AM

Tricky one for me is meal prep. I want to do curbside pickups because I’m supporting local restaurants and their employees. Plus, seems pretty safe. I open the car window and they throw food into it.

But, I do have to go in elevators and across the street to get to my car. In theory, safer to stay in and cook.

With that said, I think I’m going to carefully order & pickup a huge breakfast now

Remember you are also at the mercy of whether the people preparing your meal are following rules regarding proper hygiene (e.g. coughing, washing hands) and are staying home if they have any symptoms.

I'd prep food at home as much as you can if you are worried about exposure.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 21, 2020, 10:51:03 AM

Let's begin with Aaron Ginn not being a credible person.

Manipulating data points for political gain is disingenous, and, on this topic, reckless and dangerous. His policy positions are more than a bit head scratching.

Here is a tweet from him yesterday for example.

https://twitter.com/aginnt/status/1240731186445660160?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 21, 2020, 11:00:25 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 21, 2020, 10:51:03 AM

Let's begin with Aaron Ginn not being a credible person.

Manipulating data points for political gain is disingenous, and, on this topic, reckless and dangerous. His policy positions are more than a bit head scratching.

Here is a tweet from him yesterday for example.

https://twitter.com/aginnt/status/1240731186445660160?s=19

Never heard of him, no idea on his politics or positions, but if that tweet is reflective of his intelligence, he is an idiot.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 21, 2020, 11:03:52 AM

Quote from: forgetful on March 21, 2020, 11:00:25 AM

Never heard of him, no idea on his politics or positions, but if that tweet is reflective of his intelligence, he is an idiot.

Especially the point about being a teetotaler his whole life.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 21, 2020, 11:11:19 AM

Quote from: muwarrior69 on March 21, 2020, 10:32:49 AM

Yes, thanks. The article actually demonstrates how misleading the map above actually is.

What is misleading?  Maybe its your understanding.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 21, 2020, 11:27:50 AM

Quote from: forgetful on March 21, 2020, 11:00:25 AM

Never heard of him, no idea on his politics or positions, but if that tweet is reflective of his intelligence, he is an idiot.

I saw some people above in the thread passing this article of Ginn’s around below. So I wanted to point it out.

https://medium.com/six-four-six-nine/evidence-over-hysteria-covid-19-1b767def5894

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 21, 2020, 11:49:03 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 21, 2020, 11:27:50 AM

I saw some people above in the thread passing this article of Ginn’s around below. So I wanted to point it out.

https://medium.com/six-four-six-nine/evidence-over-hysteria-covid-19-1b767def5894

It is still wrong, misleading and filled with assumptions that are unlikely at best. Reposting it doesn’t make it any more valid.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 21, 2020, 11:59:24 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 21, 2020, 11:27:50 AM

I saw some people above in the thread passing this article of Ginn’s around below. So I wanted to point it out.

https://medium.com/six-four-six-nine/evidence-over-hysteria-covid-19-1b767def5894

Interesting, was also not a fan of that article at all. Very selective in what data he used. In many regards very inaccurate. It read to me just like how a lot of "health sites" abuse data to prove whatever point they want.

There are enough nuggets in it to make it seem informed and reasonable, but leaves out all data, even if there is more of it, that disproves their agenda.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 21, 2020, 12:00:35 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on March 21, 2020, 11:49:03 AM

It is still wrong, misleading and filled with assumptions that are unlikely at best. Reposting it doesn’t make it any more valid.

? Huh?

I am the one that pointed out those things about the piece being wrong, misleading, etc...above, and the author.  My previous post didn’t include the link, so I added it to make sure people understood who the person was and the piece that I was referencing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 21, 2020, 12:05:04 PM

Sorry, misunderstood. Just assumed people would click on the link from the twitter link.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 21, 2020, 12:10:38 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 21, 2020, 11:59:24 AM

Interesting, was also not a fan of that article at all. Very selective in what data he used. In many regards very inaccurate. It read to me just like how a lot of "health sites" abuse data to prove whatever point they want.

There are enough nuggets in it to make it seem informed and reasonable, but leaves out all data, even if there is more of it, that disproves their agenda.

Yep.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 21, 2020, 12:11:44 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on March 21, 2020, 12:05:04 PM

Sorry, misunderstood. Just assumed people would click on the link from the twitter link.

No worries I should have been more clear the first time.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 21, 2020, 12:36:18 PM

There is little that is dispassionate, impartial or nonpartisan about that article.

The writer has a firm opinion, rooted in his ideology, and has cherry-picked data that support it.

Some of the charts and graphs are interesting, however.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 21, 2020, 12:55:45 PM

BREAKING: Italy reports 6,557 new cases of coronavirus and 793 new deaths, raising total to 53,578 cases and 4,825 dead

Ugh.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on March 21, 2020, 01:54:39 PM

Quote from: MU82 on March 21, 2020, 12:36:18 PM

Some of the charts and graphs are interesting, however.

It was clearly slanted but I found some of the alternative data points interesting. Everything is getting absurdly political these days. It feels like it’s become even more profoundly “it’s just the flu, this is all liberal plot” vs “90% of of the population will be infected by July 4th and every older person you love will die and the Great Depression will be a cakewalk”. No in between. It’s exhausting to try and find any sort of moderate take. People have chosen their sides and dug in, just like everything else partisan these days

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 21, 2020, 02:04:17 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 21, 2020, 12:55:45 PM

BREAKING: Italy reports 6,557 new cases of coronavirus and 793 new deaths, raising total to 53,578 cases and 4,825 dead

Ugh.

If you believe the theory that it takes 23-24 days to resolve an infection (either recovered or dead), the people dying now caught the virus around the last few days of February.  Italy didn't lock down until March 13th.  That would mean they are going to see another two weeks of escalating death tolls until it, hopefully, starts to level off and then decrease.

The US still isn't in a lockdown, it is a patchwork depending on local authorities. Texas finally officially closed schools statewide only yesterday and prohibited dine-in at bars and restaurants.  Thankfully a lot of locals took matters into their hands earlier, but this haphazard  reaction means things are likely to get worse for at least the next three weeks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on March 21, 2020, 02:10:28 PM

Lots of masks, gloves, googles, gowns in closed university labs. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 21, 2020, 02:11:46 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on March 21, 2020, 01:54:39 PM

It was clearly slanted but I found some of the alternative data points interesting. Everything is getting absurdly political these days. It feels like it’s become even more profoundly “it’s just the flu, this is all liberal plot” vs “90% of of the population will be infected by July 4th and every older person you love will die and the Great Depression will be a cakewalk”. No in between. It’s exhausting to try and find any sort of moderate take. People have chosen their sides and dug in, just like everything else partisan these days

I disagree wags.  I have found many people change their views on this as new info came forward.  Also, this is an exogenous shock that the world hasn’t experienced — particularly the speed of this becoming a global problem.  Probably makes sense there are extreme views and things that are outdated by the min.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 21, 2020, 02:13:25 PM

This could be a game changer in an eventual partial return to normal.

 https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/488807-fda-authorizes-first-rapid-point-of-care-coronavirus-test (https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/488807-fda-authorizes-first-rapid-point-of-care-coronavirus-test)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 21, 2020, 02:14:26 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on March 21, 2020, 01:54:39 PM

It was clearly slanted but I found some of the alternative data points interesting. Everything is getting absurdly political these days. It feels like it’s become even more profoundly “it’s just the flu, this is all liberal plot” vs “90% of of the population will be infected by July 4th and every older person you love will die and the Great Depression will be a cakewalk”. No in between. It’s exhausting to try and find any sort of moderate take. People have chosen their sides and dug in, just like everything else partisan these days

agree completely i just want normal life back. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 21, 2020, 02:19:41 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 21, 2020, 02:13:25 PM

This could be a game changer in an eventual partial return to normal.

 https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/488807-fda-authorizes-first-rapid-point-of-care-coronavirus-test (https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/488807-fda-authorizes-first-rapid-point-of-care-coronavirus-test)

Very exciting if it's as effective as Cepheid claims.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 21, 2020, 02:28:03 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 21, 2020, 02:04:17 PM

If you believe the theory that it takes 23-24 days to resolve an infection (either recovered or dead), the people dying now caught the virus around the last few days of February.  Italy didn't lock down until March 13th.  That would mean they are going to see another two weeks of escalating death tolls until it, hopefully, starts to level off and then decrease.

The US still isn't in a lockdown, it is a patchwork depending on local authorities. Texas finally officially closed schools statewide only yesterday and prohibited dine-in at bars and restaurants.  Thankfully a lot of locals took matters into their hands earlier, but this haphazard  reaction means things are likely to get worse for at least the next three weeks.

Exactly, that's why I'm disgusted.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 21, 2020, 02:37:36 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 21, 2020, 02:04:17 PM

If you believe the theory that it takes 23-24 days to resolve an infection (either recovered or dead), the people dying now caught the virus around the last few days of February.  Italy didn't lock down until March 13th.  That would mean they are going to see another two weeks of escalating death tolls until it, hopefully, starts to level off and then decrease.

The US still isn't in a lockdown, it is a patchwork depending on local authorities. Texas finally officially closed schools statewide only yesterday and prohibited dine-in at bars and restaurants.  Thankfully a lot of locals took matters into their hands earlier, but this haphazard  reaction means things are likely to get worse for at least the next three weeks.

This is sad, but couldnt this timeline be accelerated if someone does not get medical treatment.  I also saw something that pointed to the fact that Bergamo had 108 more deaths YTD versus last year.  Only a third have been officially called Covid, but many more died at home or in a nursing home and just never tested & counted...

I hope they start seeing progress. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 21, 2020, 02:40:10 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on March 21, 2020, 01:54:39 PM

It was clearly slanted but I found some of the alternative data points interesting. Everything is getting absurdly political these days. It feels like it’s become even more profoundly “it’s just the flu, this is all liberal plot” vs “90% of of the population will be infected by July 4th and every older person you love will die and the Great Depression will be a cakewalk”. No in between. It’s exhausting to try and find any sort of moderate take. People have chosen their sides and dug in, just like everything else partisan these days

Lack of leadership

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on March 21, 2020, 03:43:21 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 20, 2020, 06:23:02 PM

sorry, I'll do better next time.

(https://i.redd.it/vyaoukcj5un41.png)

We worried yet?

US population much larger than Italy.  More than 5x. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 21, 2020, 04:17:10 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on March 21, 2020, 03:43:21 PM

US population much larger than Italy.  More than 5x.

And today we are well over 25,000.  I don't see your point.  We are going to blow past Italy's numbers, and this isn't a race we should be trying to win.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 21, 2020, 04:30:31 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on March 21, 2020, 03:43:21 PM

US population much larger than Italy.  More than 5x.

Yet we have less hospital beds per person than Italy does. We can be overwhelmed faster than Italy. Already seeing shortages in NY and other areas. Add in normal hospital load and we are potentially in a world of hurt.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 21, 2020, 04:30:38 PM

First time I can put a face on Coronavirus.
Someone I know, not well, but my wife and mother-in-law do, passed away from Coronavirus today here in Connecticut.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 21, 2020, 04:34:51 PM

A friend of the family works at Yale New Haven Hospital as an X-ray Tech.  She said they are expecting an enslaught of patients next week.
And they already don't have enough masks and they are soaking in something overnight to kill gems so they can reuse.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Johnny B on March 21, 2020, 04:48:34 PM

One of my "buddies" from college is partying it up on the beach in flrodia. Irresponsible careless loser

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 21, 2020, 05:15:55 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on March 21, 2020, 03:43:21 PM

US population much larger than Italy.  More than 5x.

And? You find it totally acceptable that it's spreading at a much faster rate? Cool bro

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 21, 2020, 05:27:15 PM

Quote from: Johnny B on March 21, 2020, 04:48:34 PM

One of my "buddies" from college is partying it up on the beach in flrodia. Irresponsible careless loser

The pictures of the beaches in Florida are pretty disturbing. They seem to have the attitude of "I'm young enough that, even if I get it, it won't be that bad"...without even considering how widely that big crowd would disburse the virus nationwide when they go back home.  >:(

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 21, 2020, 05:59:55 PM

There is a local party boat here in South Florida going strong here. Not sure how. If it turns out they are a contributor to the spread of the virus, they are toast.
https://m.facebook.com/PonTikiBoatCruises/

A friend that lives on the intracoastal waterway says boats are crammed with teens and 20somethings partying.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on March 21, 2020, 06:01:02 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on March 21, 2020, 05:59:55 PM

There is a local party boat here in South Florida going strong here. Not sure how. If it turns out they are a contributor to the spread of the virus, they are toast.
https://m.facebook.com/PonTikiBoatCruises/

A friend that lives on the intracoastal waterway says boats are crammed with teens and 20somethings partying.

At this rate, we may just need Bugs to just saw that state into the ocean.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on March 21, 2020, 06:11:33 PM

Chick jr., a nurse at St. Luke's, just notified us that she is not allowed to knowingly come into contact people from certain states, including Illinois.  So we don't know when we will be able to see her next.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 21, 2020, 06:22:11 PM

As of Saturday night March 21, 2020, The President has not yet invoked The Defense Production Act. (Contrary to some rumors) It's beyond my comprehension.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Johnny B on March 21, 2020, 06:52:33 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 21, 2020, 06:22:11 PM

As of Saturday night March 21, 2020, The President has not yet invoked The Defense Production Act. (Contrary to some rumors) It's beyond my comprehension.

Its all about wait for shi t to get bad then prepapre not prepare before shi t gets bad

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 21, 2020, 07:03:09 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on March 21, 2020, 06:11:33 PM

Chick jr., a nurse at St. Luke's, just notified us that she is not allowed to knowingly come into contact people from certain states, including Illinois.  So we don't know when we will be able to see her next.

In fairness that seems to be good advice in general. They are called fips/fibs for a reason. 😀

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 21, 2020, 07:26:11 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 21, 2020, 05:27:15 PM

The pictures of the beaches in Florida are pretty disturbing. They seem to have the attitude of "I'm young enough that, even if I get it, it won't be that bad"...without even considering how widely that big crowd would disburse the virus nationwide when they go back home.  >:(

From our local waterways today.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 21, 2020, 07:35:59 PM

Video of new South Korea Testing:

https://twitter.com/ErikSolheim/status/1241259513212211200?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 21, 2020, 08:34:26 PM

Quote from: Johnny B on March 21, 2020, 04:48:34 PM

One of my "buddies" from college is partying it up on the beach in flrodia. Irresponsible careless loser

I can't believe DeSantis has refused to close the beaches.  Well I can, but it is still astonishing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 21, 2020, 08:38:01 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on March 21, 2020, 07:26:11 PM

From our local waterways today.

That is a lot of Florida Mans.

Again, every three days without a national lockdown doubles the ultimate death toll.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 21, 2020, 08:47:51 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 21, 2020, 08:34:26 PM

I can't believe DeSantis has refused to close the beaches.  Well I can, but it is still astonishing.

They finally did for many but not all beaches.  Sandbars and islands in the middle of waterways don’t count. Idiots.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 21, 2020, 08:56:45 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on March 21, 2020, 07:26:11 PM

From our local waterways today.

This is the crap that gives me anxiety.  I'm usually a very calm dude, but that is INFURIATING.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 21, 2020, 08:58:00 PM

Before I even post the link, obviously, its Mother Jones.  Which I don't read, but...

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/03/lung-fluids-coronavirus/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 21, 2020, 09:58:38 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 21, 2020, 08:56:45 PM

This is the crap that gives me anxiety.  I'm usually a very calm dude, but that is INFURIATING.

I hear you, buddy.

So many people are following guidelines and exercising common sense, but with a virus like this, it doesn't take many idiots to keep stoking the flames. We can thank them when the entire country goes on mandatory lockdown for a month, and the death toll ends up being many times higher than it needs to be. >:(

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 21, 2020, 10:46:32 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 21, 2020, 08:58:00 PM

Before I even post the link, obviously, its Mother Jones.  Which I don't read, but...

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/03/lung-fluids-coronavirus/
[/quote

Poor leadership

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Bad_Reporter on March 21, 2020, 11:16:51 PM

Is marshal law about to happen?

I read illinois gun sales have gone up to 19,000 in the past 5 days.

Interesting times ahead..

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 21, 2020, 11:24:13 PM

Quote from: Bad_Reporter on March 21, 2020, 11:16:51 PM

Is marshal law about to happen?

I read illinois gun sales have gone up to 19,000 in the past 5 days.

Interesting times ahead..

The US is a strange and frightening  place. Something bad happens, and the first instinct for many people is to head out and buy a gun. What’s the point?!? :(

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 21, 2020, 11:45:54 PM

I'd like to see that gun sales stat crossed with first time gun owners

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on March 21, 2020, 11:46:18 PM

Quote from: Bad_Reporter on March 21, 2020, 11:16:51 PM

Is marshal law about to happen?

I read illinois gun sales have gone up to 19,000 in the past 5 days.

Interesting times ahead..

Going to be a lot of guns floating around IL estate sales.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Johnny B on March 21, 2020, 11:55:07 PM

Quote from: Bad_Reporter on March 21, 2020, 11:16:51 PM

Is marshal law about to happen?

I read illinois gun sales have gone up to 19,000 in the past 5 days.

Interesting times ahead..

Martial law is very unlikely but i guess possible. Were not close to that yet. If this gets crazy bad and ppl ignore quartine maybe. Funny thing is guns are confiscated during martial law. Check points would be set up every where. Itd be like some zombie movie. Hell were almost at movie level pandemic anyway.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Johnny B on March 22, 2020, 12:11:45 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on January 27, 2020, 05:47:30 PM

Yeah, if you want doom, I don't think the Coronavirus is going to cut it.


(https://i.redd.it/3gc9lhqizbd41.jpg)

Is there an update of this or is it same?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 22, 2020, 06:25:10 AM

 https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/03/20/emily-landon-coronavirus/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook (https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/03/20/emily-landon-coronavirus/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook)

IL doctor getting praised for her talk explaining why staying home is important. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on March 22, 2020, 07:11:26 AM

Quote from: Johnny B on March 22, 2020, 12:11:45 AM

Is there an update of this or is it same?

https://informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/the-microbescope-infectious-diseases-in-context/

Slightly closer to Spanish Flu. Not sure when this updates though. Little clunky on mobile.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 22, 2020, 10:45:22 AM

I've read a ton of revolutionary era books.  An often mentioned event was how cities like Philadelphia would clear out of people every summer because of Yellow Fever outbreaks.
They'd go North or somewhere outside the city that was less populated.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on March 22, 2020, 11:55:38 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 22, 2020, 10:45:22 AM

I've read a ton of revolutionary era books.  An often mentioned event was how cities like Philadelphia would clear out of people every summer because of Yellow Fever outbreaks.
They'd go North or somewhere outside the city that was less populated.

Speaking of that, Vilas County in Wisconsin (home to vacation spots like Eagle River and Manitowish Waters), sent out an advisory for people who have second homes there: If your primary residence is someplace else, please stay there and not at your place in Vilas.  The medical facilities there are very limited, and a high number of their year-rounders are older.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 22, 2020, 02:40:36 PM

How did senator Paul get a test when he has no symptoms and no known contacts that tested positive?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HutchwasClutch on March 22, 2020, 03:00:53 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 22, 2020, 02:40:36 PM

How did senator Paul get a test when he has no symptoms and no known contacts that tested positive?

What I read is due to extensive travel and event schedule.

He tested positive I’m sure you’re aware.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on March 22, 2020, 03:08:49 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 22, 2020, 02:40:36 PM

How did senator Paul get a test when he has no symptoms and no known contacts that tested positive?

I’m going to guess all of Congress has been tested and some more than once.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 22, 2020, 03:16:58 PM

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on March 22, 2020, 03:00:53 PM

What I read is due to extensive travel and event schedule.

He tested positive I’m sure you’re aware.

Do you think other Americans who have had extensive travel and event schedules but are NOT celebrities/athletes/congressmen would be tested like he was?

No. They wouldn't be.

We cry about mis-allocation of resources during a crisis and these unnatural carnal knowledgewads are perpetuating it.

Edit: oh. And he was the lone vote against making testing free

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on March 22, 2020, 03:29:58 PM

"During the Senate GOP lunch today, Moran told colleagues that Rand was at the gym this morning, per two sources briefed on the lunch, and that he was swimming in the pool. Rand got his COVID-19 results back this morning."

What an outstanding example of Libertarianism. You're not the boss of me.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on March 22, 2020, 03:31:10 PM

I believe the Utah Jazz got their tests from a private company. Maybe that’s the same for Congress.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HutchwasClutch on March 22, 2020, 03:32:22 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 22, 2020, 03:16:58 PM

Do you think other Americans who have had extensive travel and event schedules but are NOT celebrities/athletes/congressmen would be tested like he was?

No. They wouldn't be.

We cry about mis-allocation of resources during a crisis and these unnatural carnal knowledgewads are perpetuating it.

Edit: oh. And he was the lone vote against making testing free

So where’s your anger towards all the NBA players who’ve been tested without symptoms?  Or celebrities? Or other politicians?

Or could you be cherry picking your outrage for reasons obvious.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 22, 2020, 03:34:42 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 22, 2020, 03:16:58 PM

Do you think other Americans who have had extensive travel and event schedules but are NOT celebrities/athletes/congressmen would be tested like he was?

No. They wouldn't be.

We cry about mis-allocation of resources during a crisis and these unnatural carnal knowledgewads are perpetuating it.

Edit: oh. And he was the lone vote against making testing free

https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2020/03/20/san-gabriel-man-dies-not-tested-coronavirus/

You can't even get tested if you are almost on your deathbed, nor even after you die.

"The coroner’s office said it would not do an autopsy because Kaiser said Ramirez died of pneumonia, so Murillo is paying for an independent autopsy to find out if her husband died of the coronavirus."

This patient was sent home without anyone even reading his x-ray, simply someone would call him with the results.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on March 22, 2020, 03:37:05 PM

Quote from: Mutaman on March 22, 2020, 03:29:58 PM

"During the Senate GOP lunch today, Moran told colleagues that Rand was at the gym this morning, per two sources briefed on the lunch, and that he was swimming in the pool. Rand got his COVID-19 results back this morning."

What an outstanding example of Libertarianism. You're not the boss of me.

If this is true, he should have some medical license taken away and be kicked out of the Senate, and who knows if anyone would believe me, but this is regardless of party affiliation.  Beyond stupid, dangerous and life threatening to his colleagues who’s average age is what, 65??

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on March 22, 2020, 03:41:57 PM

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on March 22, 2020, 03:32:22 PM

So where’s your anger towards all the NBA players who’ve been tested without symptoms?  Or celebrities? Or other politicians?

Or could you be cherry picking your outrage for reasons obvious.

 

    Jacob Payne @cattleprod

   " The worst part is that Rand *KNEW* he'd been directly exposed weeks ago at a Speed Museum event where multiple prominent people tested positive. It's been all over KY media for weeks. He refused to self-quarantine. cc @atrupar"

I'm chery picking my outrage against a--h----.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 22, 2020, 03:49:21 PM

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on March 22, 2020, 03:32:22 PM

So where’s your anger towards all the NBA players who’ve been tested without symptoms?  Or celebrities? Or other politicians?

Or could you be cherry picking your outrage for reasons obvious.

All of it is ridiculous. That is why the federal government should be setting the standards, with high penalties, for who gets tested.

No going and buying a test if you are rich. Save them, and use them, in the most effective and strategic manner.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HutchwasClutch on March 22, 2020, 03:50:40 PM

Quote from: Mutaman on March 22, 2020, 03:41:57 PM

 

    Jacob Payne @cattleprod

   " The worst part is that Rand *KNEW* he'd been directly exposed weeks ago at a Speed Museum event where multiple prominent people tested positive. It's been all over KY media for weeks. He refused to self-quarantine. cc @atrupar"

I'm chery picking my outrage against a--h----.

So this obviously extreme partisan tweeted it, so must be completely true, right? No one makes up anything on the internet to push their agenda, right?

And if it were true of “weeks ago”, that would be well beyond incubation period for this virus.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 22, 2020, 03:52:56 PM

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on March 22, 2020, 03:50:40 PM

So this obviously extreme partisan tweeted it, so must be completely true, right? No one makes up anything on the internet to push their agenda, right?

And if it were true of “weeks ago”, that would be well beyond incubation period for this virus.

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/2020/03/15/louisville-coronavirus-cases-museum-speed-ball-guest-tests-positive/5054435002/

Two weeks ago, so within incubation period. Rand Paul was being reckless, and exposed his colleagues.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HutchwasClutch on March 22, 2020, 03:53:08 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 22, 2020, 03:49:21 PM

All of it is ridiculous. That is why the federal government should be setting the standards, with high penalties, for who gets tested.

No going and buying a test if you are rich. Save them, and use them, in the most effective and strategic manner.

I agree.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 22, 2020, 03:53:37 PM

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on March 22, 2020, 03:32:22 PM

So where’s your anger towards all the NBA players who’ve been tested without symptoms?  Or celebrities? Or other politicians?

Or could you be cherry picking your outrage for reasons obvious.

I mean, its literally in his post.  celebs and athletes.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 22, 2020, 03:54:34 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on March 22, 2020, 11:55:38 AM

Speaking of that, Vilas County in Wisconsin (home to vacation spots like Eagle River and Manitowish Waters), sent out an advisory for people who have second homes there: If your primary residence is someplace else, please stay there and not at your place up there.  The medical facilities there are very limited, and a high number of their year-rounders are older.

Many of the locals up in the Grand Marais/Boundary Waters region of MN are expressing the same sentiment. I don't think there has been any formal advisory or restriction on travel, but I read somewhere that locals have floated ideas like barricading US-61 North of Duluth. Last I checked, there was only one reported case in Duluth, and none further north.

Article from yesterdays MPLS Star-Tribune:

http://www.startribune.com/in-minnesota-s-small-tourist-towns-there-s-trepidation-over-visitors/568996922/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HutchwasClutch on March 22, 2020, 04:00:18 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 22, 2020, 03:52:56 PM

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/2020/03/15/louisville-coronavirus-cases-museum-speed-ball-guest-tests-positive/5054435002/

Two weeks ago, so within incubation period. Rand Paul was being reckless, and exposed his colleagues.

Ok, so original argument why was he tested at all, is kind of debunked. 

And while incubation period is 14 days, that’s furthest out. Most show symptoms in about 5-6 days, which Paul apparently had not. 

I am no Rand Paul fan whatsoever, but he tested positive. Is it too much to put aside politics during this for a change.  For many, I know the answer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 22, 2020, 04:02:33 PM

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on March 22, 2020, 03:32:22 PM

So where’s your anger towards all the NBA players who’ve been tested without symptoms?  Or celebrities? Or other politicians?

Or could you be cherry picking your outrage for reasons obvious.

Dude.

Please reread my post.

Then I'll be accepting an apology as my post had nothing to do with politics.

Edit: here's me from a couple days ago:

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 17, 2020, 06:36:04 PM

Here's a question:

Why the unnatural carnal knowledge are tests being run on asymptomatic individuals who aren't high-risk or aren't in professions on the frontlines when we have a limited amount of tests right now?

My attitude doesn't change on the testing. ALL tests should be reserved for the priority patients. I don't care what race, religion, socioeconomic status, political affiliation.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 22, 2020, 04:05:50 PM

I know we all keep hearing "reasonable rumors," but I heard from reasonable sources today that a nationwide 14-day shelter in place order is coming.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HutchwasClutch on March 22, 2020, 04:06:25 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 22, 2020, 04:02:33 PM

Dude.

Please reread my post.

Then I'll be accepting an apology as my post had nothing to do with politics.

Dude. What are you 14 y.o.?

Show me your post expressing your outrage for all the NBA players or any celebrity who’s been tested, many without symptoms.

Or was your first and only a sitting senator with an R next to his name.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 22, 2020, 04:06:49 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 22, 2020, 04:05:50 PM

I know we all keep hearing "reasonable rumors," but I heard from reasonable sources today that a nationwide 14-day shelter in place order is coming.

I unnatural carnal knowledgeing hope so.  Only two weeks too late.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 22, 2020, 04:07:03 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 22, 2020, 04:05:50 PM

I know we all keep hearing "reasonable rumors," but I heard from reasonable sources today that a nationwide 14-day shelter in place order is coming.

But what does that really change/mean?

Who's going to enforce it?

Who's determining "essential"?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 22, 2020, 04:08:16 PM

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on March 22, 2020, 04:06:25 PM

Dude. What are you 14 y.o.?

Show me your post expressing your outrage for all the NBA players or any celebrity who’s been tested, many without symptoms.

Or was your first and only a sitting senator with an R next to his name.

Whoops.

You seem to lack comprehension.

Go ahead and look at my post history. Nothing but destain for testing outside of priority patients.

You're a clownshow

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 22, 2020, 04:09:06 PM

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on March 22, 2020, 04:06:25 PM

Dude. What are you 14 y.o.?

Show me your post expressing your outrage for all the NBA players or any celebrity who’s been tested, many without symptoms.

Or was your first and only a sitting senator with an R next to his name.

You are the only one making it about party affiliation.  Everyone else is pointing out what an pretty boy he is for ignoring precautions and putting everyone else at risk when he is supposed to be a leader.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HutchwasClutch on March 22, 2020, 04:09:44 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 22, 2020, 04:02:33 PM

Dude.

Please reread my post.

Then I'll be accepting an apology as my post had nothing to do with politics.

Edit: here's me from a couple days ago:

My attitude doesn't change on the testing. ALL tests should be reserved for the priority patients. I don't care what race, religion, socioeconomic status, political affiliation.

So you singled out Paul, why?  Even after a positive test?  You singled out no one else at any time.  It didn’t get under your skin enough to single out a name until...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on March 22, 2020, 04:12:28 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 22, 2020, 04:09:06 PM

You are the only one making it about party affiliation.  Everyone else is pointing out what an pretty boy he is for ignoring precautions and putting everyone else at risk when he is supposed to be a leader.

Isn't he also a doctor?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 22, 2020, 04:13:05 PM

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on March 22, 2020, 04:09:44 PM

So you singled out Paul, why?  Even after a positive test?  You singled out no one else at any time.  It didn’t get under your skin enough to single out a name until...

Lol. Wrong.

Here's the original, emphasis added:

Quote

Do you think other Americans who have had extensive travel and event schedules but are NOT celebrities/athletes/congressmen would be tested like he was?

Here's a post from days ago:

Here's a question:

Quote

Why the unnatural carnal knowledge are tests being run on asymptomatic individuals who aren't high-risk or aren't in professions on the frontlines when we have a limited amount of tests right now?

Again. You're a clownshow

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HutchwasClutch on March 22, 2020, 04:13:17 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 22, 2020, 04:08:16 PM

Whoops.

You seem to lack comprehension.

Go ahead and look at my post history. Nothing but destain for testing outside of priority patients.

You're a clownshow

Where did you single anyone else out? Waiting

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 22, 2020, 04:14:32 PM

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on March 22, 2020, 04:13:17 PM

Where did you single anyone else out? Waiting

🤡

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 22, 2020, 04:15:23 PM

Quote from: Mutaman on March 22, 2020, 04:12:28 PM

Isn't he also a doctor?

Yeah, sadly.  As is his dad, who as recently as the 16th said it was a big hoax and that Fauci was a fearmongerer and liar.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HutchwasClutch on March 22, 2020, 04:18:00 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 22, 2020, 04:13:05 PM

Lol. Wrong.

Here's the original, emphasis added:

Here's a post from days ago:

Here's a question:

Again. You're a clownshow

Reposting isn’t helping you.

By the way, you also originally said he had “no known contacts that had tested positive.”  Turns out he had on 3/7/20. Care to retract dude?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HutchwasClutch on March 22, 2020, 04:19:17 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 22, 2020, 04:14:32 PM

🤡

That’s it, very solid.

Just posted something else to chew on and not answer

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HutchwasClutch on March 22, 2020, 04:20:21 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 22, 2020, 04:09:06 PM

You are the only one making it about party affiliation.  Everyone else is pointing out what an pretty boy he is for ignoring precautions and putting everyone else at risk when he is supposed to be a leader.

BS. This is so transparent and you know it too.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 22, 2020, 04:20:55 PM

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on March 22, 2020, 04:18:00 PM

Reposting isn’t helping you.

By the way, you also originally said he had “no known contacts that had tested positive.”  Turns out he had on 3/7/20. Care to retract dude?

This is a pretty hilarious hill you've chosen to die on, especially since the proof is right there in front of you.

Why the need to defend Senator Paul?  Curious.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 22, 2020, 04:23:36 PM

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on March 22, 2020, 04:20:21 PM

BS. This is so transparent and you know it too.

Senator and Doctor exposed to coronavirus. Refuses to self-quarantine and exposes others.

Scooper upset that Senator being picked on.

OK.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HutchwasClutch on March 22, 2020, 04:25:27 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 22, 2020, 04:20:55 PM

This is a pretty hilarious hill you've chosen to die on, especially since the proof is right there in front of you.

Why the need to defend Senator Paul?  Curious.

Well, if you go back and read, the premise of my argument is can we put politics aside for once during this?  He does have a potentially deadly illness and already high risk.  But some here apparently think he’s deserving.

I’m defending another human being. I don’t care his background.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on March 22, 2020, 04:25:31 PM

Quote from: reinko on March 22, 2020, 03:37:05 PM

Beyond stupid, dangerous and life threatening to his colleagues who’s average age is what, 65??

Whose vs. who’s

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HutchwasClutch on March 22, 2020, 04:27:12 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 22, 2020, 04:23:36 PM

Senator and Doctor exposed to coronavirus. Refuses to self-quarantine and exposes others.

Scooper upset that Senator being picked on.

OK.

Scooper apparently has high moral ground to determine that he’s getting what’s coming. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 22, 2020, 04:31:17 PM

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on March 22, 2020, 04:25:27 PM

Well, if you go back and read, the premise of my argument is can we put politics aside for once during this?  He does have a potentially deadly illness and already high risk.  But some here apparently think he’s deserving.

I’m defending another human being. I don’t care his background.

Riiiiiiiiiight.  That is a hell of a pivot.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 22, 2020, 04:31:38 PM

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on March 22, 2020, 04:27:12 PM

Scooper apparently has high moral ground to determine that he’s getting what’s coming.

Here is a Senator, supposedly a leader of the country, who is a doctor to boot and supposedly should know better, refusing to self-quarantine after known exposure to people that tested positive and as a consequence may have spread the virus to others.

And this is who you choose to defend.

As Hards said, what a strange hill to die on.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 22, 2020, 04:34:06 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 22, 2020, 04:31:17 PM

Riiiiiiiiiight.  That is a hell of a pivot.

Chicos is mad with envy at the magnitude of that goal post shift.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 22, 2020, 04:35:58 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 22, 2020, 04:34:06 PM

Chicos is mad with envy at the magnitude of that goal post shift.

;D

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HutchwasClutch on March 22, 2020, 04:37:00 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 22, 2020, 04:31:17 PM

Riiiiiiiiiight.  That is a hell of a pivot.

Sorry that I already posted what I did, so this is all you an TSmith are left with.

Do you hope he recovers?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on March 22, 2020, 04:37:31 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 22, 2020, 04:31:38 PM

Here is a Senator, supposedly a leader of the country, who is a doctor to boot and supposedly should know better, refusing to self-quarantine after known exposure to people that tested positive and as a consequence may have spread the virus to others.

And this is who you choose to defend.

As Hards said, what a strange hill to die on.

Everyone's entitled to a lawyer. I hear harvey Weinstein has got the bug. Can someone come forward and say a few words in his defense. Let me start- Sex Lies and Videotape is a hell of a movie.

https://www.niagara-gazette.com/covid-19/at-new-york-prison-harvey-weinstein-put-in-isolation-after/article_26e38374-6c7d-11ea-9f8a-3b2c09e7817d.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on March 22, 2020, 04:38:51 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on March 22, 2020, 04:25:31 PM

Whose vs. who’s

Glad the corona in your building has not effected your attention to grammer

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HutchwasClutch on March 22, 2020, 04:39:21 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 22, 2020, 04:31:38 PM

Here is a Senator, supposedly a leader of the country, who is a doctor to boot and supposedly should know better, refusing to self-quarantine after known exposure to people that tested positive and as a consequence may have spread the virus to others.

And this is who you choose to defend.

As Hards said, what a strange hill to die on.

No need to repeat your argument. Got it the first time.

How’s the view from that high moral ground you stand?

Hope he recovers?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 22, 2020, 04:43:36 PM

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on March 22, 2020, 04:39:21 PM

No need to repeat your argument. Got it the first time.

How’s the view from that high moral ground you stand?

Hope he recovers?

LOL, yes, that was what you were upset about, all the people in the thread wishing him death!

So as not to ruin this thread, I'll refrain from further exchange.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HutchwasClutch on March 22, 2020, 04:47:19 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 22, 2020, 04:43:36 PM

LOL, yes, that was what you were upset about, all the people in the thread wishing him death!

So as not to ruin this thread, I'll refrain from further exchange.

You’d think a simple yes would have been easy response, guess not

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Archies Bat on March 22, 2020, 05:05:55 PM

Hutch:  Have a cocktail.  You need it IMHO.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Johnny B on March 22, 2020, 05:08:20 PM

Hutch not so clutch

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 22, 2020, 05:10:43 PM

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on March 22, 2020, 04:18:00 PM

Reposting isn’t helping you.

By the way, you also originally said he had “no known contacts that had tested positive.”  Turns out he had on 3/7/20. Care to retract dude?

Nope, I don't. Why? Because in my OP, it wasn't made public he had been exposed. And, in that case, AS IN ALL OTHER CASES, if someone hasn't been exposed and isn't showing symptoms, then they shouldn't be tested. Period. I don't care who they are or how much money they have.

I do hope senator Paul recovers.

Now. When you responded to my OP, you were defending his testing without knowing he was exposed.

Hypocrisy.

And still a clownshow.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 22, 2020, 05:11:59 PM

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on March 22, 2020, 04:27:12 PM

Scooper apparently has high moral ground to determine that he’s getting what’s coming.

You lost this discussion many posts ago.

Stop digging.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 22, 2020, 05:14:18 PM

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on March 22, 2020, 04:37:00 PM

Sorry that I already posted what I did, so this is all you an TSmith are left with.

Do you hope he recovers?

Yes, of course.  Really strange question... But I guess I should consider the source.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 22, 2020, 05:47:44 PM

Tennessee vs. Kentucky's response to COVID:

https://twitter.com/KySportsRadio/status/1241360418565689346

Really shows how beneficial it is (was) to do everything early.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 22, 2020, 06:03:21 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 22, 2020, 05:47:44 PM

Tennessee vs. Kentucky's response to COVID:

https://twitter.com/KySportsRadio/status/1241360418565689346

Really shows how beneficial it is (was) to do everything early.

According to responses, that tweet/graph is pure propaganda

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 22, 2020, 06:05:14 PM

CDC now recommending to skip normal screening (influenza test, respiratory viral panels, etc) for anyone suspected of covid. Move straight to covid test.

This is a BIG change from previous suggestion.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 22, 2020, 06:28:51 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 22, 2020, 06:05:14 PM

CDC now recommending to skip normal screening (influenza test, respiratory viral panels, etc) for anyone suspected of covid. Move straight to covid test.

This is a BIG change from previous suggestion.

Probably because they finally have the Covid tests ready.  Great news.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 22, 2020, 06:33:29 PM

Quote from: Johnny B on March 22, 2020, 05:08:20 PM

Hutch not so clutch

Yeah. WTF was that all about?

Back on topic...I sure as hell hope the rumor of a nationwide 14-day lockdown (mentioned a page or two back) is true. Much overdue, but also much warranted.

Pray for the first responders, doctors and nurses, and the onslaught they are about to see...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 22, 2020, 06:34:30 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 22, 2020, 06:33:29 PM

Yeah. WTF was that all about?

Back on topic...I sure as hell hope the rumor of a nationwide 14-day lockdown (mentioned a page or two back) is true. Much overdue, but also much warranted.

Pray for the first responders, doctors and nurses, and the onslaught they are about to see...

Agreed, especially on the overdue portion. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 22, 2020, 06:47:17 PM

Just heard from a cousin that lives in madison that her condo neighbors son is bailing on New York and on his way to live in madison until this is done.  Oh he happens to be a doctor wonder how much that will happen.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 22, 2020, 06:50:21 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on March 22, 2020, 06:47:17 PM

Just heard from a cousin that lives in madison that her condo neighbors son is bailing on New York and on his way to live in madison until this is done.  Oh he happens to be a doctor wonder how much that will happen.

A doc leaving NYC just as the crap is hitting the fan?

Not a good look...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on March 22, 2020, 06:51:54 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 22, 2020, 06:33:29 PM

Yeah. WTF was that all about?

Back on topic...I sure as hell hope the rumor of a nationwide 14-day lockdown (mentioned a page or two back) is true. Much overdue, but also much warranted.

Pray for the first responders, doctors and nurses, and the onslaught they are about to see...

I think we’ll have a so called lockdown and it’ll last well past two weeks. Further, because of people saying “screw that” it may go to martial law. #LastDays

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on March 22, 2020, 06:53:05 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on March 22, 2020, 06:47:17 PM

Just heard from a cousin that lives in madison that her condo neighbors son is bailing on New York and on his way to live in madison until this is done.  Oh he happens to be a doctor wonder how much that will happen.

Did he also pass out at 31 Flavors too?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 22, 2020, 06:57:34 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on March 22, 2020, 06:51:54 PM

I think we’ll have a so called lockdown and it’ll last well past two weeks. Further, because of people saying “screw that” it may go to martial law. #LastDays

Yep. The longer authorities wait, the longer the lockdown will be.

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 22, 2020, 06:58:56 PM

I'll ask again..

Who's going to enforce the shutdown/shelter? If Florida beaches are any indication, this is all merely a suggestion. No penalties whatsoever for ignoring public health recs during a state of emergency

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 22, 2020, 07:03:23 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 22, 2020, 06:58:56 PM

I'll ask again..

Who's going to enforce the shutdown/shelter? If Florida beaches are any indication, this is all merely a suggestion. No penalties whatsoever for ignoring public health recs during a state of emergency

IMHO, it will probably take a team effort by the National Guard and state/local law enforcement. Just a shame that few authorities seem to have the political will to issue the order in the first place. It should be a national order, but POTUS seems to be waiting on his miracle, so it will likely take independent actions by the governors.

And the clock is ticking....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on March 22, 2020, 07:10:03 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 22, 2020, 06:58:56 PM

I'll ask again..

Who's going to enforce the shutdown/shelter? If Florida beaches are any indication, this is all merely a suggestion. No penalties whatsoever for ignoring public health recs during a state of emergency

It’ll get to that, but we’re probably  a long ways from that. In other words, we’re kittenfooting around and it’s stupid af.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on March 22, 2020, 08:09:03 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 22, 2020, 06:50:21 PM

A doc leaving NYC just as the crap is hitting the fan?

Not a good look...

Although I find this story a little suspect (who did he sell his co-op to?) lots of morons left after 9/11 too.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on March 22, 2020, 08:10:35 PM

Quote from: reinko on March 22, 2020, 06:53:05 PM

Did he also pass out at 31 Flavors too?

 :D

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 22, 2020, 08:55:54 PM

Quote from: Mutaman on March 22, 2020, 08:09:03 PM

Although I find this story a little suspect (who did he sell his co-op to?) lots of morons left after 9/11 too.

Go ahead and doubt it no reason for my cousin to make it up

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 22, 2020, 09:39:24 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 22, 2020, 06:03:21 PM

According to responses, that tweet/graph is pure propaganda

But it's on the internet!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 22, 2020, 09:54:41 PM

Fauci interview Science Magazine:

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/03/i-m-going-keep-pushing-anthony-fauci-tries-make-white-house-listen-facts-pandemic

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 22, 2020, 10:42:58 PM

Wonder is there will be outrage from Hutch about our President's response about hearing that Mitt Romney is self isolating. ;) ;) ;)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 22, 2020, 10:57:39 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 22, 2020, 10:42:58 PM

Wonder is there will be outrage from Hutch about our President's response about hearing that Mitt Romney is self isolating. ;) ;) ;)

This country will drown without a leader. May already be too late.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 22, 2020, 11:06:19 PM

What's being said at White House press briefings is annoying.

What's being done on the floor of Congress is criminal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on March 22, 2020, 11:06:53 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on March 22, 2020, 08:55:54 PM

Go ahead and doubt it no reason for my cousin to make it up

Maybe the condo neighbor made it up. I heard from my best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend who heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with a girl that no doctor has left NYC to move to Madison. At least not any competent one.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on March 22, 2020, 11:17:59 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 22, 2020, 10:57:39 PM

This country will drown without a leader. May already be too late.

"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the Government, and I'm here to help. "

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 22, 2020, 11:34:52 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 22, 2020, 11:06:19 PM

What's being said at White House press briefings is annoying.

What's being done on the floor of Congress is criminal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 23, 2020, 07:21:24 AM

Quote from: Mutaman on March 22, 2020, 11:17:59 PM

"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the Government, and I'm here to help. "

This is such bullsh*t. It’s part of the reason why we are in this mess to begin with. “Bureaucrats” have been ridiculed and mocked for their expertise and experience for years.

It’s a pandemic. Outside of a war, I can’t think of something more appropriate for the federal government to help with.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 23, 2020, 08:33:45 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 22, 2020, 11:06:19 PM

What's being said at White House press briefings is annoying criminal.

What's being done on the floor of Congress is criminal too.

FIFY

In times of national crisis, the message from leadership is essential to maintaining the pease and confidence of the citizens. Without that, chaos may erupt...and Congress can't do much to stop that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 23, 2020, 09:09:05 AM

I found this article over the weekend from The Atlantic.
Lots of info on the virus itself as to what is known and unknown.

---

Why the Coronavirus Has Been So Successful
We’ve known about SARS-CoV-2 for only three months, but scientists can make some educated guesses about where it came from and why it’s behaving in such an extreme way.

ED YONG
MARCH 20, 2020

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/03/biography-new-coronavirus/608338/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=masthead-newsletter&utm_content=20200321&silverid-ref=MzEwMTU3Mjg5Mzk2S0

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Golden Avalanche on March 23, 2020, 09:13:51 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 22, 2020, 11:06:19 PM

What's being said at White House press briefings is annoying.

What's being done on the floor of Congress is criminal.

For me, it's the reverse.

Congressional grandstanding is annoying (maybe it wasn't a good idea for McConnell to take a long weekend last week and shut down the Senate) but with the Fed keeping things afloat right now it's simply a matter of time until a nearly $2 trillion stimulus is pumped into the country. So long as it's done this week it can still be effective.


As for the WH, deliberately pumping misinformation into the discussion so as to create political cover has accelerated the virus and certainly had a hand in people dying. If you weigh political benefit and Americans dying and come out on the side of political benefit, that belies a criminal taint to the response.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on March 23, 2020, 09:25:04 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 21, 2020, 04:17:10 PM

And today we are well over 25,000.  I don't see your point.  We are going to blow past Italy's numbers, and this isn't a race we should be trying to win.

My point is you should be looking at this in context.  Cases per 1M would be a good example to follow.

On 3/21 the US had 24K cases and Italy had 12.5K.  That tells an incorrect story if population is not factored in.  Those same numbers normalized for population show Italy has 206 cases per 1M of of their population.  The US has 73 cases per 1M of our population.  Both are alarming, but the United States has five times the population as Italy, we are a free society, with means to travel the world.  We are a prime target for this type of thing, and using absolute numbers without addressing total population is misleading.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 23, 2020, 09:26:37 AM

Ugh — we are not even out of the starting gates. 

 https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-signals-growing-weariness-with-social-distancing-and-other-steps-advocated-by-health-officials/2020/03/23/0920ea0a-6cfc-11ea-a3ec-70d7479d83f0_story.html?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-signals-growing-weariness-with-social-distancing-and-other-steps-advocated-by-health-officials/2020/03/23/0920ea0a-6cfc-11ea-a3ec-70d7479d83f0_story.html?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook)
   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on March 23, 2020, 09:35:24 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 22, 2020, 11:06:19 PM

What's being said at White House press briefings is annoying.

What's being done on the floor of Congress is criminal.

100%.  The games both sides play and at this hour.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 23, 2020, 09:53:54 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on March 23, 2020, 09:25:04 AM

My point is you should be looking at this in context.  Cases per 1M would be a good example to follow.

On 3/21 the US had 24K cases and Italy had 12.5K.  That tells an incorrect story if population is not factored in.  Those same numbers normalized for population show Italy has 206 cases per 1M of of their population.  The US has 73 cases per 1M of our population.  Both are alarming, but the United States has five times the population as Italy, we are a free society, with means to travel the world.  We are a prime target for this type of thing, and using absolute numbers without addressing total population is misleading.

My point is you ignored the context.  We aren't Italy now, we are Italy TWO WEEKS AGO.  That's why we are going to blow by their numbers, and make them look like geniuses in comparison.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 23, 2020, 10:00:47 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 23, 2020, 09:26:37 AM

Ugh — we are not even out of the starting gates. 

 https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-signals-growing-weariness-with-social-distancing-and-other-steps-advocated-by-health-officials/2020/03/23/0920ea0a-6cfc-11ea-a3ec-70d7479d83f0_story.html?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-signals-growing-weariness-with-social-distancing-and-other-steps-advocated-by-health-officials/2020/03/23/0920ea0a-6cfc-11ea-a3ec-70d7479d83f0_story.html?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook)
 

His tweet in the linked article was parroting a tabloid-style show on Fox that had run minutes earlier.  That's where we are--Executive policy being determined by what he sees on TV.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 23, 2020, 10:07:22 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 23, 2020, 09:53:54 AM

My point is you ignored the context.  We aren't Italy now, we are Italy TWO WEEKS AGO.  That's why we are going to blow by their numbers, and make them look like geniuses in comparison.

Here's a cool and terrifying time lapse graph.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=Dbi59kz8CT4&feature=emb_logo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=Dbi59kz8CT4&feature=emb_logo)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 23, 2020, 10:39:01 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 23, 2020, 10:00:47 AM

That's where we are--Executive policy being determined by what he sees on TV.

Yup. It was appalling from January 2017 until about January 2020. It's absolutely terrifying now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 23, 2020, 10:49:28 AM

The UK has a test, which costs $25, can be done at home, and takes only 30 minutes. It requires no special equipment, just have to heat the sample to above 150 degrees F, for 30 minutes and watch for a color change.

http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-03-18-oxford-scientists-develop-rapid-testing-technology-covid-19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 23, 2020, 11:59:00 AM

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/22/health/coronavirus-restrictions-us.html#click=https://t.co/7cy71sKLVG

This is a good public health expert summary that came out yesterday.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 23, 2020, 12:05:09 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 23, 2020, 11:59:00 AM

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/22/health/coronavirus-restrictions-us.html#click=https://t.co/7cy71sKLVG

This is a good public health expert summary that came out yesterday.

Other experts are saying it's time to drop any restrictions and get back to work.

Tough to know who's correct

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on March 23, 2020, 12:20:05 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 23, 2020, 10:49:28 AM

The UK has a test, which costs $25, can be done at home, and takes only 30 minutes. It requires no special equipment, just have to heat the sample to above 150 degrees F, for 30 minutes and watch for a color change.

http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-03-18-oxford-scientists-develop-rapid-testing-technology-covid-19

False Negatives are the current problem with testing across the world

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/health/2020/03/why-mass-testing-coronavirus-isn-t-easy-solution

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 23, 2020, 12:57:12 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 23, 2020, 12:05:09 PM

Other experts are saying it's time to drop any restrictions and get back to work.

Tough to know who's correct

Would you name some of these other experts that are suggesting drop restrictions and get back to work and life as usual?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 23, 2020, 01:09:42 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 23, 2020, 12:57:12 PM

Would you name some of these other experts that are suggesting drop restrictions and get back to work and life as usual?

They work mostly in the economic and business community

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 23, 2020, 01:10:57 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 23, 2020, 07:21:24 AM

This is such bullsh*t. It’s part of the reason why we are in this mess to begin with. “Bureaucrats” have been ridiculed and mocked for their expertise and experience for years.

It’s a pandemic. Outside of a war, I can’t think of something more appropriate for the federal government to help with.

Government at the local levels yes, government at the federal level, not so much. There are broad strokes the federal government can pursue but it's going to.take the citizens, companies, and local.governments to resolve this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 23, 2020, 01:13:27 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 23, 2020, 09:53:54 AM

My point is you ignored the context.  We aren't Italy now, we are Italy TWO WEEKS AGO.  That's why we are going to blow by their numbers, and make them look like geniuses in comparison.

In some parts of the country, this is a possible outcome, but not even all of Italy is seeing the impact like they are in the Lombardi region

If I'm in NYC or Seattle I am 100% panicked. If I'm in Utah or Tennessee or maybe Alabama I'm concerned but not overly so.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 23, 2020, 01:14:09 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 23, 2020, 01:10:57 PM

Government at the local levels yes, government at the federal level, not so much. There are broad strokes the federal government can pursue but it's going to.take the citizens, companies, and local.governments to resolve this.

Sorry the problem with that is we have dipsh*t local governments in places like Florida.  And other states can't close the border to and from Florida.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 23, 2020, 01:14:25 PM

St. Louis fed has an interesting proposal.

https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-economy/2020/march/bullard-expected-us-macroeconomic-performance-pandemic-adjustment-period

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 23, 2020, 01:15:46 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 23, 2020, 12:05:09 PM

Other experts are saying it's time to drop any restrictions and get back to work.

Tough to know who's correct

I don't think there are ANY "experts" saying this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 23, 2020, 01:20:21 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 23, 2020, 01:09:42 PM

They work mostly in the economic and business community

You are unsure whether or not to listen to Public Health Professionals or select economic and business professionals during a health crisis?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 23, 2020, 01:27:57 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 23, 2020, 01:13:27 PM

In some parts of the country, this is a possible outcome, but not even all of Italy is seeing the impact like they are in the Lombardi region

If I'm in NYC or Seattle I am 100% panicked. If I'm in Utah or Tennessee or maybe Alabama I'm concerned but not overly so.

And that is exactly the problem.  People don't care enough, and go about their day like this is a problem for NYC and Seattle and not them.  You have way too much faith in the average American to make altruistic decisions

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 23, 2020, 01:35:21 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 23, 2020, 01:13:27 PM

In some parts of the country, this is a possible outcome, but not even all of Italy is seeing the impact like they are in the Lombardi region

If I'm in NYC or Seattle I am 100% panicked. If I'm in Utah or Tennessee or maybe Alabama I'm concerned but not overly so.

I'm guessing that a virus that's made its way from central China to 195 countries around the world might be able to find its way from New York and Seattle to Tennessee and Utah.
I don't think we need or ought to wait until a place reaches 100% panic levels before we take the kind of preventive measures that the experts suggest.

And maybe it's a good idea to take preventive measures in Utah and Tennessee before they get to New York and Seattle

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 23, 2020, 01:38:45 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 23, 2020, 01:20:21 PM

You are unsure whether or not to listen to Public Health Professionals or select economic and business professionals during a health crisis?

I have to assume jesmu84's comment about "experts" in the economic and business community was made in implied teal. If not...wow.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 23, 2020, 01:40:40 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 23, 2020, 01:35:21 PM

I'm guessing that a virus that's made its way from central China to 195 countries around the world might be able to find its way from New York and Seattle to Tennessee and Utah.
I don't think we need or ought to wait until a place reaches 100% panic levels before we take the kind of preventive measures that the experts suggest.

And maybe it's a good idea to take preventive measures in Utah and Tennessee before they get to New York and Seattle

Yep. If we wait until the whole country becomes like NYC or Seattle, they wouldn't be preventive measures anymore.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 23, 2020, 01:59:24 PM

And speaking of preventive measures...you need to keep them in place for a while so you don't go from a success story to a potential hot zone...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/23/asia/hong-kong-coronavirus-quarantine-intl-hnk/index.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: BM1090 on March 23, 2020, 02:09:57 PM

Read a few articles that suggested if we were to go to 4-5 week full lockdown right now we could open up business as usual after that period. It would give us time to get emergency hospitals/testing facilities in place and get enough tests ready.

Then, after the 5 week lockdown nearly everyone would have access to a test and we could quarantine the infected people and society restarts. Anyone with more knowledge know if this is feasible at all? I know it is working well in South Korea but I have my doubts it would work here on a larger scale.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 23, 2020, 02:26:56 PM

Quote from: BM1090 on March 23, 2020, 02:09:57 PM

Read a few articles that suggested if we were to go to 4-5 week full lockdown right now we could open up business as usual after that period. It would give us time to get emergency hospitals/testing facilities in place and get enough tests ready.

Then, after the 5 week lockdown nearly everyone would have access to a test and we could quarantine the infected people and society restarts. Anyone with more knowledge know if this is feasible at all? I know it is working well in South Korea but I have my doubts it would work here on a larger scale.

This is what we should have done like 2 weeks ago.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 23, 2020, 02:48:21 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 23, 2020, 01:35:21 PM

I'm guessing that a virus that's made its way from central China to 195 countries around the world might be able to find its way from New York and Seattle to Tennessee and Utah.
I don't think we need or ought to wait until a place reaches 100% panic levels before we take the kind of preventive measures that the experts suggest.

And maybe it's a good idea to take preventive measures in Utah and Tennessee before they get to New York and Seattle

Not at all saying the measures shouldn't take place across the board, I'm just saying the panic is not uniformly distributed and it needs to communicated appropriately.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 23, 2020, 02:54:12 PM

Quote from: Coleman on March 23, 2020, 02:26:56 PM

This is what we should have done like 2 weeks ago.

Advocated for it a month ago, alas, I have no power. :(

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 23, 2020, 02:54:54 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 23, 2020, 12:57:12 PM

Would you name some of these other experts that are suggesting drop restrictions and get back to work and life as usual?

There was one jenius that tweeted this last night after watching a news show......

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 23, 2020, 02:57:33 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 23, 2020, 01:20:21 PM

You are unsure whether or not to listen to Public Health Professionals or select economic and business professionals during a health crisis?

This health crisis is also becoming (or could already be considered) an economic crisis. Focusing exclusively on health benefits with no regard at all to economic impacts is not realistic. There needs to be a balance of many priorities. People's lives are the most important for sure, but people's livelihoods need to be considered as well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 23, 2020, 03:01:19 PM

Quote from: BM1090 on March 23, 2020, 02:09:57 PM

Read a few articles that suggested if we were to go to 4-5 week full lockdown right now we could open up business as usual after that period. It would give us time to get emergency hospitals/testing facilities in place and get enough tests ready.

Then, after the 5 week lockdown nearly everyone would have access to a test and we could quarantine the infected people and society restarts. Anyone with more knowledge know if this is feasible at all? I know it is working well in South Korea but I have my doubts it would work here on a larger scale.

Do you have any links you could share? I'm curious to understand how a full lockdown would be expected to affect testing supplies. Is there an assumption built in that during a 5 week lockdown we wouldn't need to use many tests? If that's not the case, I don't understand how a strict lockdown would allow us to build up a larger supply of tests than the current plans.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 23, 2020, 03:16:48 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 23, 2020, 02:57:33 PM

This health crisis is also becoming (or could already be considered) an economic crisis. Focusing exclusively on health benefits with no regard at all to economic impacts is not realistic. There needs to be a balance of many priorities. People's lives are the most important for sure, but people's livelihoods need to be considered as well.

So whose lives are you willing to sacrifice in the name of money? Your parents? Grandparents? Aunts? Uncles? Neighbors? Children? Friends? Siblings?
Or just other people's parents, grandparents, friends, children, siblings, etc.?

Fix the health crisis and the economic crisis goes away. The market will come back. Always has. The profits will come back. Always have. The jobs will come back. Always have.
The lives won't come back.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 23, 2020, 03:21:59 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 23, 2020, 03:16:48 PM

So whose lives are you willing to sacrifice in the name of money? Your parents? Grandparents? Aunts? Uncles? Neighbors? Children? Friends? Siblings?
Or just other people's parents, grandparents, friends, children, siblings, etc.?

Fix the health crisis and the economic crisis goes away. The market will come back. Always has. The profits will come back. Always have. The jobs will come back. Always have.
The lives won't come back.

I did say people's lives are the top priority, didn't I?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Silent Verbal on March 23, 2020, 03:44:36 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 23, 2020, 01:27:57 PM

And that is exactly the problem.  People don't care enough, and go about their day like this is a problem for NYC and Seattle and not them.  You have way too much faith in the average American to make altruistic decisions

CTA ridership in Chicago is down 83%, and the city’s been dead for a week.  Illinois, Ohio, Wisconsin, and Indiana all now have a Shelter in Place order in effect, or will have one going very soon.

All across the country, bars and restaurants, gyms, movie theaters, cultural institutions, and pretty much all other recreational activities have been shut down.  You can’t even watch sports on tv because there are no sports or other large public gatherings happening. 

People have nowhere to go and nothing to do, and it’s going to be like that for at least the next two weeks.  Sure, there have been a few outliers like the idiots on the beaches in Florida, but for the most part, Americans are now taking this seriously, if for no other reason than they want their stuff back.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 23, 2020, 03:48:34 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 23, 2020, 03:21:59 PM

I did say people's lives are the top priority, didn't I?

You said people's lives are important "but ..."

Look, I get that a great number of people will suffer economic hardships as a result of this. I'm one of them. But I find appalling the notion that we've endured so much hardship to this point that it's time to talk about stopping the measures that experts say will save lives.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 23, 2020, 03:50:09 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 23, 2020, 12:05:09 PM

Other experts are saying it's time to drop any restrictions and get back to work.

Tough to know who's correct

There is nothing wrong with throwing this out there.  We need a free exchange of ideas. 

    There are some who are worried that if we shut down our economy too long , it will be irreparably damaged. Then what good is Medicare/aid etc when we as a state or country cannot afford it?  Will there be more demand than money can pay for? 

Just saying, we need some economic experts to weigh in here along with the health experts and come to a balanced conclusion

Italy’s corrective measures don’t seem to be working

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 23, 2020, 03:53:06 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 23, 2020, 03:50:09 PM

Just saying, we need some economic experts to weigh in here along with the health experts and come to a balanced conclusion

I posted this earlier, but here is an opinion form the St. Louis fed

https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-economy/2020/march/bullard-expected-us-macroeconomic-performance-pandemic-adjustment-period

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 23, 2020, 03:54:45 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 23, 2020, 03:50:09 PM

Italy’s corrective measures don’t seem to be working

The data I saw is they have had new cases decline for two straight days.  While early and still digging out of the morass, this will likely take time.  What info shows them not getting better?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 23, 2020, 03:55:22 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 23, 2020, 02:57:33 PM

This health crisis is also becoming (or could already be considered) an economic crisis. Focusing exclusively on health benefits with no regard at all to economic impacts is not realistic. There needs to be a balance of many priorities. People's lives are the most important for sure, but people's livelihoods need to be considered as well.

Maybe if we had a better safety net, "people's livelihoods" wouldn't be as urgent a concern.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 23, 2020, 03:56:43 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 23, 2020, 03:48:34 PM

You said people's lives are important "but ..."

Look, I get that a great number of people will suffer economic hardships as a result of this. I'm one of them. But I find appalling the notion that we've endured so much hardship to this point that it's time to talk about stopping the measures that experts say will save lives.

But livelihoods are important as well. I assume reasonable people can agree on that.

The point is that we can't employ solutions that don't factor in multiple points of view. It's possible to have a comprehensive solution that addresses more than one priority. If we are going to take extreme measure to save as many lives as possible, we also need to think about ways to limit the negative consequences of those actions.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 23, 2020, 03:59:39 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 23, 2020, 03:50:09 PM

There are some who are worried that if we shut down our economy too long , it will be irreparably damaged.

These people don't know what thew word "irreparably" means.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 23, 2020, 04:01:14 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 23, 2020, 03:55:22 PM

Maybe if we had a better safety net, "people's livelihoods" wouldn't be as urgent a concern.

Ding ding ding, we have a winner

Here's the thing, in a crisis, Uncle Sam is going to pony up for unemployment benefit increases, food stamps, $1000 checks, etc. anyway. Just like there are no atheists in foxholes, there are no libertarians in a pandemic.

Problem is, none of it was budgeted so we will run a $3 trillion deficit this year. If we were smart, like every other country, we would just budget for the safety net at all times.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 23, 2020, 04:02:36 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 23, 2020, 03:55:22 PM

Maybe if we had a better safety net, "people's livelihoods" wouldn't be as urgent a concern.

Fair. But we don't today, and we can't change that today. It can and should be addressed once this fire is out.

We have lots of time for politicking over large-scale changes to things like safety nets after we get through this. I think we're all better served by finding a solution for the current issue and then using things learned from this situation to avoid repeat scenarios.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 23, 2020, 04:04:37 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 23, 2020, 03:54:45 PM

The data I saw is they have had new cases decline for two straight days.  While early and still digging out of the morass, this will likely take time.  What info shows them not getting better?

^This.  I would have expected the numbers to continue to climb for at least another week based on when they shut down, but it is an encouraging trend.  Really hoping the numbers continue to tick down.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 23, 2020, 04:05:07 PM

Quote from: Coleman on March 23, 2020, 04:01:14 PM

Ding ding ding, we have a winner

Here's the thing, in a crisis, Uncle Sam is going to pony up for unemployment benefit increases, food stamps, $1000 checks, etc. anyway. Just like there are no atheists in foxholes, there are no libertarians in a pandemic.

Problem is, none of it was budgeted so we will run a $3 trillion deficit this year. If we were smart, like every other country, we would just budget for the safety net at all times.

Socialist heathen

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 23, 2020, 04:05:55 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 23, 2020, 04:02:36 PM

Fair. But we don't today, and we can't change that today. It can and should be addressed once this fire is out.

We have lots of time for politicking over large-scale changes to things like safety nets after we get through this. I think we're all better served by finding a solution for the current issue and then using things learned from this situation to avoid repeat scenarios.

Ya .. as a nation, we don't tend to do this. We look at about 2 years ahead and forget about everything else - past, present or future.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 23, 2020, 04:06:57 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 23, 2020, 03:56:43 PM

But livelihoods are important as well. I assume reasonable people can agree on that.

The point is that we can't employ solutions that don't factor in multiple points of view. It's possible to have a comprehensive solution that addresses more than one priority. If we are going to take extreme measure to save as many lives as possible, we also need to think about ways to limit the negative consequences of those actions.

Yes, livelihoods are important. Nobody has suggested otherwise. Lots of other things are important as well. And sometimes you have to prioritize among things that are important. I'm saying we should prioritize lives more than we prioritize livelihoods. The loss of the former is permanent; the latter temporary.

And we are thinking about ways to limit the negative consequences. Congress will soon pass a $2 trillion package to limit those negative consequences. That's 10% of the GDP. It won't prevent all the hardship, of course, but it's far from ignoring or de-prioritizing the negative consequences/.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 23, 2020, 04:07:30 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 23, 2020, 01:38:45 PM

I have to assume jesmu84's comment about "experts" in the economic and business community was made in implied teal. If not...wow.

Ding ding ding.


But here's the thing...whomever I listen to doesn't matter. The only "listener" that matters is in the oval office. And, for better or worse, he doesn't want to look bad, doesn't want to have people talking badly about him and wants to win again in November.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 23, 2020, 04:07:51 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on March 23, 2020, 02:54:54 PM

There was one jenius that tweeted this last night after watching a news show......

Where does this expert work?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 23, 2020, 04:10:42 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 23, 2020, 04:06:57 PM

Yes, livelihoods are important. Nobody has suggested otherwise. Lots of other things are important as well. And sometimes you have to prioritize among things that are important. I'm saying we should prioritize lives more than we prioritize livelihoods. The loss of the former is permanent; the latter temporary.

And we are thinking about ways to limit the negative consequences. Congress will soon pass a $2 trillion package to limit those negative consequences. That's 10% of the GDP. It won't prevent all the hardship, of course, but it's far from ignoring or de-prioritizing the negative consequences/.

I agree with you pak.

But then you have people like my boss who told me today that the economic setback - already in the trillions - is far too great a cost for "a few thousand lives" (based on current data/fatality rates). "We don't spend that kinda money to prevent DUI deaths or smoking deaths or any other kind of death, so this time shouldn't be any different."

I am POSITIVE he isn't the only one thinking/saying these kinds of things. And he's far from the most charged on being against more economic shutdown.

Edit: I think there's a certain subset that won't believe this is any kind of a big deal until millions end up dead. And the whole point of steps so far is to prevent that from happening. So, it's a real catch-22.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 23, 2020, 04:14:53 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 23, 2020, 04:05:07 PM

Socialist heathen

Now, that is funny.

Even a dope like me can recognize sarcasm when based over over the head.  :)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 23, 2020, 04:16:19 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 23, 2020, 03:55:22 PM

Maybe if we had a better safety net, "people's livelihoods" wouldn't be as urgent a concern.

We play the hand we're dealt. Right now we are having to balance the potential of avoiding up to say a million deaths against the say the long lasting economic imperilment of millions of Americans. It's an impossible call but how much net damage is done to peoples lives if the lockdowns hold long term?

The ideal approach at this point is based on a finite lock down, say 3 weeks with a funding package to support people for that three weeks while simultaneously building out a rapid test program and rapidly expanding our healthcare capacity. Assuming you can get the testing capacity to the point where you can test everyone and get results in a day or less you can start opening things back up and move to a tracing and quarantine model.

And honestly, a lot of world leaders were caught flat footed by this thing, I'm a lot less worried about recriminations in the short term, lets focus on working the problem and assign credit/blame later.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 23, 2020, 04:20:02 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 23, 2020, 04:10:42 PM

I agree with you pak.

But then you have people like my boss who told me today that the economic setback - already in the trillions - is far too great a cost for "a few thousand lives" (based on current data/fatality rates). "We don't spend that kinda money to prevent DUI deaths or smoking deaths or any other kind of death, so this time shouldn't be any different."

I am POSITIVE he isn't the only one thinking/saying these kinds of things. And he's far from the most charged on being against more economic shutdown.

Edit: I think there's a certain subset that won't believe this is any kind of a big deal until millions end up dead. And the whole point of steps so far is to prevent that from happening. So, it's a real catch-22.

This is the calculus that people have trouble wrapping their heads around....if this works the economic turmoil saved literally incalculable numbers of lives, but it'll look like a huge expense in comparison to the count of lives we didn't save.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 23, 2020, 04:22:00 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 23, 2020, 04:06:57 PM

Yes, livelihoods are important. Nobody has suggested otherwise. Lots of other things are important as well. And sometimes you have to prioritize among things that are important. I'm saying we should prioritize lives more than we prioritize livelihoods. The loss of the former is permanent; the latter temporary.

And we are thinking about ways to limit the negative consequences. Congress will soon pass a $2 trillion package to limit those negative consequences. That's 10% of the GDP. It won't prevent all the hardship, of course, but it's far from ignoring or de-prioritizing the negative consequences/.

Right. So back to my original point, we need to listen to financial experts as well as healthcare experts in this kind of situation. Everything you're saying seems to agree/align with my initial comment.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 23, 2020, 04:27:32 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 23, 2020, 04:20:02 PM

This is the calculus that people have trouble wrapping their heads around....if this works the economic turmoil saved literally incalculable numbers of lives, but it'll look like a huge expense in comparison to the count of lives we didn't save.

Quite simply though we can probably estimate what we are talking about.  We have 330M people in the US.  Let's say 80% get it due to herd immunity taking over at some point.  Let's say the death rate only doubles to 2%, even though we probably run out of HC equipment which could cause it to go higher.  That is 5.3M people.  Let alone the emotional carnage of that happening....let alone some businesses not being able to run while people recover or dont...

We start marching up that curve, the economic will crumbles.  The consumer gets more scared then they already are.  Workers refuse to come to work or there arent enough healthy to work.

Everything is about controlling the virus. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 23, 2020, 04:31:44 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 23, 2020, 03:54:45 PM

The data I saw is they have had new cases decline for two straight days.  While early and still digging out of the morass, this will likely take time.  What info shows them not getting better?

You are absolutely correct. Italy is still in a world of hurt, but given the natural rate of expansion of this, their decreasing infection rates make it clear that they are turning a corner. We, on the other hand, are still seeing just the tip of the iceberg because our "leaders" are waiting WAY too long. To show how we are very soon going to pass (and then lap) Italy, people should consider these numbers of confirmed cases:

Italy:

March 16: 27,980
March 23: 63,927 (roughly 2.3x increase in one week)

US:

March 16: 4,663
March 23: 41,708 (roughly 9x increase in one week)

If those numbers don't scare the sh!t out of people, nothing will.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 23, 2020, 04:43:37 PM

I don’t have the link handy, and if it has been discussed earlier, I apologize, but I just heard someone discussing the Wall Street journal editorial from last Friday. It brings up some real realities...kinda scary

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 23, 2020, 05:25:03 PM

By the way there is precedent for controlling the virus without completely shutting down the economy.  We are very far from this path though and it may be to late without a shutdown first. 

South Korea

 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/23/world/asia/coronavirus-south-korea-flatten-curve.html?smtyp=cur&smid=fb-nytimes (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/23/world/asia/coronavirus-south-korea-flatten-curve.html?smtyp=cur&smid=fb-nytimes)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 23, 2020, 05:32:39 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 23, 2020, 05:25:03 PM

By the way there is precedent for controlling the virus without completely shutting down the economy.  We are very far from this path though and it may be to late without a shutdown first. 

South Korea

 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/23/world/asia/coronavirus-south-korea-flatten-curve.html?smtyp=cur&smid=fb-nytimes (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/23/world/asia/coronavirus-south-korea-flatten-curve.html?smtyp=cur&smid=fb-nytimes)

Yep. Unfortunately, we lost that opportunity when the FDA refused to let the U of Washington test people with its research test kits, and when the CDC's initial test kits were flawed.

We already have 5x the cases of SK, and our rate of infection is rising exponentially. Snooze, we lose....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 23, 2020, 05:39:45 PM

Theoretical plan of action, is it feasible?

-National lock down for 4 weeks except for a rigid essential industry all of which have to apply for a national waiver to continue operations
-Congress issues a 4 week "wage" that is means tested and tied to someone not working (ie essential works like healthcare wouldn't get the payment as they are being paid). Basically pay people to stay home.
-shutter the stock market for 4 weeks....freeze valuations, etc until it reopens.
-During 4 weeks all interest/payments are suspended or deferred to the following month.
-during the 4 weeks, rapidly expand capacity in healthcare and advanced testing using Defense Procurement Act necessary.
-After four weeks either begin a phased restart or extend another month depending on the extent of the outbreak and viability of testing program to enable national tracking

What doesn't work? I'm sure there are lots of constitutional issues but if you get companies to cooperate either willfully or via government bullying you could put it in place.

Thoughts?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Archies Bat on March 23, 2020, 05:57:50 PM

On a tangent, did anyone notice the death toll above in French Polynesia?  860 deaths, and they have a population of around 300K.  Talk about hard hit.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 23, 2020, 05:58:21 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 23, 2020, 05:39:45 PM

Theoretical plan of action, is it feasible?

-National lock down for 4 weeks except for a rigid essential industry all of which have to apply for a national waiver to continue operations
-Congress issues a 4 week "wage" that is means tested and tied to someone not working (ie essential works like healthcare wouldn't get the payment as they are being paid). Basically pay people to stay home.
-shutter the stock market for 4 weeks....freeze valuations, etc until it reopens.
-During 4 weeks all interest/payments are suspended or deferred to the following month.
-during the 4 weeks, rapidly expand capacity in healthcare and advanced testing using Defense Procurement Act necessary.
-After four weeks either begin a phased restart or extend another month depending on the extent of the outbreak and viability of testing program to enable national tracking

What doesn't work? I'm sure there are lots of constitutional issues but if you get companies to cooperate either willfully or via government bullying you could put it in place.

Thoughts?

Probably would work, but it's hard to believe most (or any) of it happening here in 'Merica.

FWIW ... South Carolina governor just signed executive order banning groups of more than 3 people from congregating outside the home. Police are supposed to enforce the mandate.

So if you are a family with 3 kids, I guess it's against the law for the 5 of you to hang out in your driveway.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 23, 2020, 05:58:50 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on March 23, 2020, 05:39:45 PM

Theoretical plan of action, is it feasible?

-National lock down for 4 weeks except for a rigid essential industry all of which have to apply for a national waiver to continue operations
-Congress issues a 4 week "wage" that is means tested and tied to someone not working (ie essential works like healthcare wouldn't get the payment as they are being paid). Basically pay people to stay home.
-shutter the stock market for 4 weeks....freeze valuations, etc until it reopens.
-During 4 weeks all interest/payments are suspended or deferred to the following month.
-during the 4 weeks, rapidly expand capacity in healthcare and advanced testing using Defense Procurement Act necessary.
-After four weeks either begin a phased restart or extend another month depending on the extent of the outbreak and viability of testing program to enable national tracking

What doesn't work? I'm sure there are lots of constitutional issues but if you get companies to cooperate either willfully or via government bullying you could put it in place.

Thoughts?

I like the way you think....

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=59849.msg1223469#msg1223469

Too bad we didn't do this a week ago.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 23, 2020, 06:02:41 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 23, 2020, 05:58:50 PM

I like the way you think....

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=59849.msg1223469#msg1223469

Too bad we didn't do this a week ago.

Don't disagree but it's not like we have a frame of reference for this.....getting the general population on board is really really hard, exacerbated by the #FakeNews paradigm in America today. This is unprecedented in our life times and while tragic it's not surprising it's taken this long

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 23, 2020, 06:09:06 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 17, 2020, 04:02:35 PM

Evers just shut down k-12 schools indefinitely.

All bars and restaurants are closed except for takeout and delivery.

Speaking of leadership...holy Jesus...a school administrator?  And he vetoed a bill a few weeks ago and didn’t know why?  I’m sure someone else, I hope, is calling the shots...think muppets eyn’a?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 23, 2020, 06:14:46 PM

Quote from: MU82 on March 23, 2020, 05:58:21 PM

Probably would work, but it's hard to believe most (or any) of it happening here in 'Merica.

FWIW ... South Carolina governor just signed executive order banning groups of more than 3 people from congregating outside the home. Police are supposed to enforce the mandate.

So if you are a family with 3 kids, I guess it's against the law for the 5 of you to hang out in your driveway.

Aren't driveways considered part of your land? Can't imagine it gives police the right to ticket you on your own property? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 23, 2020, 06:15:25 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 23, 2020, 06:09:06 PM

Speaking of leadership...holy Jesus...a school administrator?  And he vetoed a bill a few weeks ago and didn’t know why?  I’m sure someone else, I hope, is calling the shots...think muppets eyn’a?

Wtf are you talking about?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 23, 2020, 06:27:33 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 23, 2020, 06:15:25 PM

Wtf are you talking about?

Evers is a figurehead

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 23, 2020, 06:47:28 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 23, 2020, 05:58:50 PM

I like the way you think....

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=59849.msg1223469#msg1223469

Too bad we didn't do this a week ago.

Yeah, the whole "pause [nearly] everything" is the only real option...but every day wasted is gonna make it hurt much more when we finally get there.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 23, 2020, 08:03:33 PM

This was inevitable sadly.

https://twitter.com/HeidiNBC/status/1242238268277755905?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on March 23, 2020, 08:12:54 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 23, 2020, 08:03:33 PM

This was inevitable sadly.

https://twitter.com/HeidiNBC/status/1242238268277755905?s=19

I don’t even know what we’re doing here anymore.

Pack it up everyone, society is over. I’m going to start learning guitar so I can be the guy suspended on bungees ripping beastly chords as we race into battle.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on March 23, 2020, 08:14:42 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 23, 2020, 08:03:33 PM

This was inevitable sadly.

https://twitter.com/HeidiNBC/status/1242238268277755905?s=19

Darwin ::shrug::

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 23, 2020, 08:15:38 PM

Quote from: Retire0 on March 23, 2020, 08:12:54 PM

I don’t even know what we’re doing here anymore.

Pack it up everyone, society is over. I’m going to start learning guitar so I can be the guy suspended on bungees ripping beastly chords as we race into battle.

 https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/489145-trump-offers-praise-for-nihs-fauci-hes-a-good-man (https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/489145-trump-offers-praise-for-nihs-fauci-hes-a-good-man)

Not good

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 23, 2020, 08:16:49 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 23, 2020, 08:03:33 PM

This was inevitable sadly.

https://twitter.com/HeidiNBC/status/1242238268277755905?s=19

Yep. Rule #1 when talking about an investigational drug is not to tell people it’s going to work. They need to be told that we won’t know the risk/reward profile until the clinical trial is complete. As usual, Trump violated rule #1.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on March 23, 2020, 08:18:50 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 23, 2020, 08:15:38 PM

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/489145-trump-offers-praise-for-nihs-fauci-hes-a-good-man (https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/489145-trump-offers-praise-for-nihs-fauci-hes-a-good-man)

Not good

Just a tattered flag blowing in the wind, no direction of its own, just blowing whatever way outside influences want it to.

We’re all so royalty screwed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 23, 2020, 08:20:01 PM

What the actual f?

@ndrew_lawrence: Tx Lt Gov Dan Patrick says grandparents would be willing to die to save the economy for their grandchildren https://twitter.com/ndrew_lawrence/status/1242245135129346050/video/1

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 23, 2020, 08:45:49 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 23, 2020, 08:20:01 PM

What the actual f?

@ndrew_lawrence: Tx Lt Gov Dan Patrick says grandparents would be willing to die to save the economy for their grandchildren https://twitter.com/ndrew_lawrence/status/1242245135129346050/video/1

This was the group whining about “death panels” right?

Our slavery to “the economy” is amazing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 23, 2020, 08:46:37 PM

California considers its cannabis workers essential?  Mkay




https://qz.com/1822424/californias-coronavirus-order-wont-close-cannabis-dispensaries/

So do up a bowel and make it all go away...I guess

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 23, 2020, 08:49:11 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 23, 2020, 08:46:37 PM

California considers its cannabis workers essential?  Mkay




https://qz.com/1822424/californias-coronavirus-order-wont-close-cannabis-dispensaries/

So do up a bowel and make it all go away...I guess

Do they fill prescriptions? If so, then yeah they should stay open.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 23, 2020, 08:53:54 PM

The six days of Rand Paul.

https://twitter.com/feliciasonmez/status/1242241975996289028?s=19


https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1242405800636821504?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warrior2008 on March 23, 2020, 08:56:14 PM

I recognize the difficulty of managing both a health and economic crisis simultaneously, but the idea of being able to restart the economy after 15 days is just laugh out loud dumb. We’re a service, consumer driven economy that loves confidence and certainty. The American consumer isn’t gonna start getting on planes or going to restaurants because someone, even the President, says everything’s better. They will need to see some measurable facts that we’re winning and saying we’re winning while new cases and daily deaths continue rise won’t provide that confidence. I mean at the very least show masks getting to the right place or ventilators rolling off of GM or Ford production lines because you’ve enabled the Defense Production Act. Or even flood the market with tests so places like Advocate Aurora don’t have to shut down drive up testing.

The medical reality is we’re still at least two weeks away from peaking in a best case scenario(which we’re not) and in some areas like New York and I would bet Louisiana and Florida, it will be much longer. “Reopening” the economy while we’re in the middle of the pandemic just isn’t gonna move the needle like Trump thinks it will from an economic standpoint and it very well could be disastrous from a health standpoint.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 23, 2020, 08:58:47 PM

The Director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security gives his detailed opinion regarding early ending of social distancing etc...

https://twitter.com/T_Inglesby/status/1242232846900756482?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warrior2008 on March 23, 2020, 09:02:40 PM

I’ve thought about this several times this week as the NYC cases skyrocket, it was a pretty poor decision by Val and the BE to allow games to go on Wednesday night at the Garden. Not to mention, allowing the early game to start on Thursday between Creighton and SJU.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 23, 2020, 09:03:38 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 23, 2020, 08:03:33 PM

This was inevitable sadly.

https://twitter.com/HeidiNBC/status/1242238268277755905?s=19

the world is full of people that should not be left to make decisions on their own

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 23, 2020, 09:19:41 PM

Quote from: Warrior2008 on March 23, 2020, 08:56:14 PM

I mean at the very least show masks getting to the right place or ventilators rolling off of GM or Ford production lines because you’ve enabled the Defense Production Act.

The Defense Production Act isn't actually being used.  In a press conference a few days ago Trump said "many, many" companies had been issued orders under the act, but a few days later he admitted none had, just another falsehood.  He has since said he doesn't want to use the Act because he wants companies to still profit off their production.

He also claimed that Ford and GM are producing ventilators "right now"; Ford and GM said it would take months for them to re-tool for ventilator production.

Elon Musk also pulled an Elon Musk: after saying he was going to produce 1K ventilators he has since wavered back and forth and then said "they probably wouldn't be needed".

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 23, 2020, 09:26:45 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 23, 2020, 08:58:47 PM

The Director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security gives his detailed opinion regarding early ending of social distancing etc...

https://twitter.com/T_Inglesby/status/1242232846900756482?s=19

Thanks for that link

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on March 23, 2020, 09:50:18 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 23, 2020, 08:03:33 PM

This was inevitable sadly.

https://twitter.com/HeidiNBC/status/1242238268277755905?s=19

First of all, you aren't supposed to ingest it. People should know that. That's pretty obvious. Second of all, how about we be a bit fair here and also post an article that shows what can happen when done properly..

https://www.foxnews.com/health/florida-man-with-coronavirus-claims-malaria-drug-saved-life

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on March 23, 2020, 09:51:25 PM

Awesome, the government bickers on and on about which side is right and which is wrong with neither being willing to compromise.

Meanwhile the average 25 year old like myself is slowly losing their entire savings.

A month ago, I had a great job, very healthy stocks, about to buy a house, and a very successful side business

Now my job is grinding to a standstill that I know my company probably can't weather, none the less pay me throughout this crisis. I've lost 30% of my stock funds, my mortgage rate has shot through the roof and am not sure if I'll be able even be able to pull the trigger on it, my side business has halted its expansion as I am no longer able to maintain the funds needed to get the new equipment.  My car payments, rent, and student loans are breathing down my neck with little to no income being guaranteed.

Meanwhile the bastards in Washington are having a pissing match with the American people's livelyhood. No one cares about which of trump or Pelosi sit atop the iron throne at the end.

We care about our lives

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on March 23, 2020, 09:57:29 PM

Quote from: MU82 on March 23, 2020, 09:46:51 PM

I believe you're right. I was being sarcastic.

He is not just corrupt and dishonest and immoral; he's also dangerous. His inability to handle a crisis is the biggest of 1,000 reasons he should still be on reality TV.

He's handling this crisis just fine. No democrat like you thinks he is, but he is. I love the liberal talking point that "people are dying!". Did people seriously expect absolutely NO ONE to die because of this?? Sure seems that way. That's ridiculous. NO ONE ever wants to see people die..ever, for any reason, but thousands of people die in this country every day for reasons totally unrelated to Coronavirus..amazingly we don't see the outrage over that, yet it's still people dying...Hmmm but there's no liberal agenda, is there??

I have news for you and your fellow liberals...people die..all of us do at some point. That's just a reality and FACTS.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 23, 2020, 09:57:47 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 23, 2020, 08:20:01 PM

What the actual f?

@ndrew_lawrence: Tx Lt Gov Dan Patrick says grandparents would be willing to die to save the economy for their grandchildren https://twitter.com/ndrew_lawrence/status/1242245135129346050/video/1

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on March 23, 2020, 10:24:28 PM

Quote from: muguru on March 23, 2020, 09:57:29 PM

Yeah okay...let me ask you a question..I know you're not an honest guy so I don't expect to get an honest answer..How many people died from H1N1 under your boy Obama's watch before he even declared it a National emergency?? He's handling this crisis just fine. No democrat like you thinks he is, but he is. I love the liberal talking point that "people are dying!". Did people seriously expect absolutely NO ONE to die because of this?? Sure seems that way. That's ridiculous. NO ONE ever wants to see people die..ever, for any reason, but thousands of people die in this country every day for reasons totally unrelated to Coronavirus..amazingly we don't see the outrage over that, yet it's still people dying...Hmmm but there's no liberal agenda, is there??

I have news for you and your fellow liberals...people die..all of us do at some point. That's just a reality and FACTS. You know, something your fellow media wonks don't know anything about. They sure don't print them or cite them that's for sure.

I’m not a liberal.

This is pathetic. We’re the supposedly the greatest country in the world (again), with two months to prepare for the arrival of COVID-19 and everyone dropped the ball.

Everyone.

There is no more agenda anymore, there should never be an agenda in a pandemic, but stupid posts like this are the exact reason why this country sucks ass now.

Grow the unnatural carnal knowledge up and realize what’s going on. Or blame the media because that the president wearing unnatural carnal knowledgeing tanner like some 00’s guido doesn’t have anything under control.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 23, 2020, 10:29:13 PM

@DrEricDing: Italy 🇮🇹 is bending the arc and rounding the corner hopefully. For 2nd consecutive day, new #COVID19 cases lower than day before. Today's death toll (601), yesterday (651), day before (793). Let’s keep up the lockdown. Other countries pay attention. https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1242214658523705344/photo/1

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 23, 2020, 10:33:29 PM

Quote from: muguru on March 23, 2020, 09:50:18 PM

First of all, you aren't supposed to ingest it. People should know that. That's pretty obvious. Second of all, how about we be a bit fair here and also post an article that shows what can happen when done properly..

https://www.foxnews.com/health/florida-man-with-coronavirus-claims-malaria-drug-saved-life

Wut?

Please tell me about the route of administration for chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on March 23, 2020, 10:35:09 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 23, 2020, 10:33:29 PM

Wut?

It’s a topical cream? Or maybe a mouth wash?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on March 23, 2020, 10:37:33 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 23, 2020, 10:29:13 PM

@DrEricDing: Italy 🇮🇹 is bending the arc and rounding the corner hopefully. For 2nd consecutive day, new #COVID19 cases lower than day before. Today's death toll (601), yesterday (651), day before (793). Let’s keep up the lockdown. Other countries pay attention. https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1242214658523705344/photo/1

That’s great news.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: LON on March 23, 2020, 10:37:56 PM

Quote from: Retire0 on March 23, 2020, 10:35:09 PM

It’s a topical cream? Or maybe a mouth wash?

Butt chugging, obviously.  But you still have to spit it out, because, you can’t ingest it. We all should know that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on March 23, 2020, 10:40:27 PM

Quote from: LON on March 23, 2020, 10:37:56 PM

Butt chugging, obviously.  But you still have to spit it out, because, you can’t ingest it. We all should know that.

This makes sense, it’s like reverse osmosis.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 23, 2020, 10:43:07 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 23, 2020, 08:03:33 PM

This was inevitable sadly.

https://twitter.com/HeidiNBC/status/1242238268277755905?s=19

They found fish tank cleaner in the back of their pantry and decided to self medicate.  Darwin just catching up to some old folks that got missed.  But OMB.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 23, 2020, 10:46:15 PM

Quote from: muguru on March 23, 2020, 09:57:29 PM

How many people died from H1N1 under your boy Obama's watch before he even declared it a National emergency??

Zero. It was declared a public health emergency on April 26th 2009, when there were only 20 cases in the entire US, and zero deaths.

Now, I guess, you have a point on "National Emergency," but that is semantics.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/mar/04/facebook-posts/president-obama-declared-h1n1-public-health-emerge/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: DegenerateDish on March 23, 2020, 11:06:28 PM

I don’t think my opinion makes any difference, I consider myself fiscally conservative and socially liberal. To me, the downfall of Trump throughout this crisis is that he can’t blame a person and pin this on that one person. A pathogen has no face, no personality, it can’t be bullied or yelled at. With lives and livelihoods at stake, literally no one has time for what is going on from a leadership standpoint at the Federal level. Good leaders and politicians are great sellers of hope. Right now demand is at an all time high, but sadly supply is at an all time low.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 23, 2020, 11:16:53 PM

Quote from: MUDish on March 23, 2020, 11:06:28 PM

I don’t think my opinion makes any difference, I consider myself fiscally conservative and socially liberal. To me, the downfall of Trump throughout this crisis is that he can’t blame a person and pin this on that one person. A pathogen has no face, no personality, it can’t be bullied or yelled at. With lives and livelihoods at stake, literally no one has time for what is going on from a leadership standpoint at the Federal level. Good leaders and politicians are great sellers of hope. Right now demand is at an all time high, but sadly supply is at an all time low.

Agreed. In the midst of a crisis, people need a reason for hope...but the hope needs to be based on the facts. Unfortunately, we are being told to hope by someone who also tells us to disregard the facts we’re getting from the medical community.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 23, 2020, 11:22:03 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 23, 2020, 11:16:53 PM

Agreed. In the midst of a crisis, people need a reason for hope...but the hope needs to be based on the facts. Unfortunately, we are being told to hope by someone who also tells us to disregard the facts we’re getting from the medical community.

Good language here. We don't need a message of hate. We don't need someone to blame. We need and want a message of hope and togetherness.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 23, 2020, 11:32:17 PM

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/23/cdc-coronavirus-survived-in-princess-cruise-cabins-up-to-17-days-after-passengers-left.html?fbclid=IwAR1NCW_kPGzf00T-udVoVvJYDv_QbATfuFw-WCPsAAqm9B6yNyxQxfn311I

COVID-19 surviving up to 17 days on surfaces. That's not good.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 23, 2020, 11:59:08 PM

Quote from: Retire0 on March 23, 2020, 10:40:27 PM

This makes sense, it’s like reverse osmosis.

Reverse assmosis.  Come on.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 24, 2020, 12:03:36 AM

Quote from: muguru on March 23, 2020, 09:57:29 PM

Yeah okay...let me ask you a question..I know you're not an honest guy so I don't expect to get an honest answer..How many people died from H1N1 under your boy Obama's watch before he even declared it a National emergency?? He's handling this crisis just fine. No democrat like you thinks he is, but he is. I love the liberal talking point that "people are dying!". Did people seriously expect absolutely NO ONE to die because of this?? Sure seems that way. That's ridiculous. NO ONE ever wants to see people die..ever, for any reason, but thousands of people die in this country every day for reasons totally unrelated to Coronavirus..amazingly we don't see the outrage over that, yet it's still people dying...Hmmm but there's no liberal agenda, is there??

I have news for you and your fellow liberals...people die..all of us do at some point. That's just a reality and FACTS. You know, something your fellow media wonks don't know anything about. They sure don't print them or cite them that's for sure.

Yeah okay ... outstanding whataboutism! Wonderful goalpost shifting, too.

Yes, people die. Even though I usually take the side of the "enemy of the people" media -- all of whom deny every day that people die -- I will cede that FACT to you.

You're not a stupid guy, guru.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on March 24, 2020, 12:22:13 AM

Scary thing is that there is information coming out now of  cases of Corona Virus survivors who have incurred lung damage.  Some recovered victims start wheezing when walking fast/running.  It's not known if this is permanent damage as there isn't enough data on the victims but this could be a mutation.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 24, 2020, 12:27:37 AM

Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on March 24, 2020, 12:22:13 AM

Scary thing is that there is information coming out now of  cases of Corona Virus survivors who have incurred lung damage.  Some recovered victims start wheezing when walking fast/running.  It's not known if this is permanent damage as there isn't enough data on the victims but this could be a mutation.

That's not new information, fyi

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Johnny B on March 24, 2020, 02:22:44 AM

Quote from: muguru on March 23, 2020, 09:57:29 PM

Yeah okay...let me ask you a question..I know you're not an honest guy so I don't expect to get an honest answer..How many people died from H1N1 under your boy Obama's watch before he even declared it a National emergency?? He's handling this crisis just fine. No democrat like you thinks he is, but he is. I love the liberal talking point that "people are dying!". Did people seriously expect absolutely NO ONE to die because of this?? Sure seems that way. That's ridiculous. NO ONE ever wants to see people die..ever, for any reason, but thousands of people die in this country every day for reasons totally unrelated to Coronavirus..amazingly we don't see the outrage over that, yet it's still people dying...Hmmm but there's no liberal agenda, is there??

I have news for you and your fellow liberals...people die..all of us do at some point. That's just a reality and FACTS. You know, something your fellow media wonks don't know anything about. They sure don't print them or cite them that's for sure.

This is just insane. This is not being habdled "fine". Im not sure it could have been handled that much worse. Trump shrugged this thing off time and time again until it was to late. Our restrictions are half assed and most places people can still go out wherever. You can still party on the beach. Can still gather in megachurches in many place. These lackluster restrictions combined with many Americans just not caring and ignoring guidelines will lead to the loss of countless lives. We didnt do enough. Hospitals will be overwhelmed in the coming weeks. We are gonna sky rocket past everyone else with the most cases in the world second to maybe india when its all done. Its a gonna be a shi t show. H1n1 killed 17k here. This will kill minimum 500k. This isnt a partisan issue just about the ppl

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 24, 2020, 04:20:31 AM

Quote from: muguru on March 23, 2020, 09:50:18 PM

First of all, you aren't supposed to ingest it. People should know that. That's pretty obvious. Second of all, how about we be a bit fair here and also post an article that shows what can happen when done properly..

https://www.foxnews.com/health/florida-man-with-coronavirus-claims-malaria-drug-saved-life

Lot of claiming being made in the article.  If it is proven by facts that would be great.  But a lot of smart people don't think it will work.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 24, 2020, 07:29:12 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 23, 2020, 08:20:01 PM

What the actual f?

@ndrew_lawrence: Tx Lt Gov Dan Patrick says grandparents would be willing to die to save the economy for their grandchildren https://twitter.com/ndrew_lawrence/status/1242245135129346050/video/1

Even if I take this guy the most charitable way possible, he thinks what makes America great is dependent on how well the economy is doing. Not that we take care of those who are most vulnerable.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 24, 2020, 07:29:42 AM

Oh Jeezzz.  Or this one..............

Hobby Lobby founder tells workers that God spoke to his wife and forgot to mention paid sick leave

https://twitter.com/kendallybrown/status/1241519413486129156?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1241519413486129156&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailykos.com%2Fstory%2F2020%2F3%2F23%2F1930316%2F-Hobby-Lobby-founder-tells-workers-that-God-spoke-to-his-wife-and-forgot-to-mention-paid-sick-leave


You can't make this crap up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Johnny B on March 24, 2020, 07:40:26 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 24, 2020, 07:29:42 AM

Oh Jeezzz.  Or this one..............

Hobby Lobby founder tells workers that God spoke to his wife and forgot to mention paid sick leave

https://twitter.com/kendallybrown/status/1241519413486129156?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1241519413486129156&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailykos.com%2Fstory%2F2020%2F3%2F23%2F1930316%2F-Hobby-Lobby-founder-tells-workers-that-God-spoke-to-his-wife-and-forgot-to-mention-paid-sick-leave


You can't make this crap up.

Looks like god suddenly loves multi billionaires and doesnt care about the workets. That couple is worth over 6 billion. Despite the bible being obviously anti rich and says they do not go to heaven these two dont seem to care. Cherry picking is fun

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 24, 2020, 07:57:25 AM

Can we please tone down the politics?  The mods allow some talk in conjunction with this topic, and a couple of you decide to go all out.  It's not real helpful.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 24, 2020, 08:07:53 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 24, 2020, 07:57:25 AM

Can we please tone down the politics?  The mods allow some talk in conjunction with this topic, and a couple of you decide to go all out.  It's not real helpful.

+1 I have my frustrations but the last thing this mini board needs is to become the old politics board

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 24, 2020, 08:25:31 AM

COVID-19 takes the life of former St. John's player Lee Green. He was 49 and didn't appear to have any pre-existing conditions.

https://nypost.com/2020/03/23/lee-green-former-st-johns-guard-dead-from-coronavirus-at-49/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 24, 2020, 08:26:38 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 24, 2020, 07:57:25 AM

Can we please tone down the politics?  The mods allow some talk in conjunction with this topic, and a couple of you decide to go all out.  It's not real helpful.

You're right, and I'm one of the guilty parties. I'll step away. We ain't gonna solve nuttin' here.

Health, happiness and sanity to all.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 24, 2020, 08:38:32 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 24, 2020, 07:57:25 AM

Can we please tone down the politics?  The mods allow some talk in conjunction with this topic, and a couple of you decide to go all out.  It's not real helpful.

This really went off the rails lately. It's really not that hard to keep the political bickering out of this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 24, 2020, 08:47:57 AM

Another big sports announcement related to the virus. The Olympics will be postponed, likely to next year. No doubt it's the right move, but with so many moving pieces involved with coordinating such a big, global event, I'm curious to see how the change will be handled.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/olympics-coronavirus-2020-postponed-canceled-tokyo-130054336.html (https://www.yahoo.com/sports/olympics-coronavirus-2020-postponed-canceled-tokyo-130054336.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 24, 2020, 09:08:16 AM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 24, 2020, 08:47:57 AM

Another big sports announcement related to the virus. The Olympics will be postponed, likely to next year. No doubt it's the right move, but with so many moving pieces involved with coordinating such a big, global event, I'm curious to see how the change will be handled.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/olympics-coronavirus-2020-postponed-canceled-tokyo-130054336.html (https://www.yahoo.com/sports/olympics-coronavirus-2020-postponed-canceled-tokyo-130054336.html)

Just do it Summer of 2021 and then go back on schedule in 2024. 
Start date July 23, 2021.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 24, 2020, 09:18:27 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 24, 2020, 09:08:16 AM

Just do it Summer of 2021 and then go back on schedule in 2024. 
Start date July 23, 2021.

That is what will probably happen, but I don't envy the committee that oversees this change. From reports I have seen, the Olympic Village and many of the related facilities have been sold to private firms, with closing dates effective this fall. Those contracts will all have to be cancelled or renegotiated.

Not impossible, but far more complicated than just dealing with rescheduling events for a stadium.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 24, 2020, 09:25:25 AM

Let's be clear on what those saying "open the economy" really mean. What they mean is that the average wage earners, the middle class and below, return to work as normal, while the rich and elite hunker down in their homes and reap the profits.

Then when it is all said and done, the rich and elite will pat themselves on the back and talk about how they saved the economy and deserve gigantic bonuses and raises.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 24, 2020, 09:36:33 AM

https://www.nola.com/news/coronavirus/article_bdc4e802-6b90-11ea-a747-832e94bc7f56.html?fbclid=IwAR1NxYFh_DWDC0G-Y2xNoCeQizdvOrcqy7CzyOfKW_O5LgJE5N_LSpvrarQ

So many stories like this one out there. Dying without ever getting tested. All these will likely never appear in our total "numbers". The lack of testing right now is essentially a coverup, hiding the deaths related to this disease.

Especially true amongst young people. They are dying too...we just never get the test results back.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 24, 2020, 09:42:26 AM

Quote from: forgetful on March 24, 2020, 09:36:33 AM

https://www.nola.com/news/coronavirus/article_bdc4e802-6b90-11ea-a747-832e94bc7f56.html?fbclid=IwAR1NxYFh_DWDC0G-Y2xNoCeQizdvOrcqy7CzyOfKW_O5LgJE5N_LSpvrarQ

So many stories like this one out there. Dying without ever getting tested. All these will likely never appear in our total "numbers". The lack of testing right now is essentially a coverup, hiding the deaths related to this disease.

Especially true amongst young people. They are dying too...we just never get the test results back.

True. And despite this well-known lack of testing, we are on the verge of passing (and then lapping) both Italy and China in confirmed cases. Within a week, we will probably double both in confirmed numbers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 24, 2020, 09:45:31 AM

Cleaned up a lot of the recent political crap. Please don't make us moderate!

Since the president is involved, chatter about press briefings and decisions is expected. Comparisons to previous administrations is purely a political conversation.  It's not hard to make the distinctions.  Tone it down.

Stay safe and healthy folks...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 24, 2020, 10:08:58 AM

Quote from: forgetful on March 24, 2020, 09:25:25 AM

Let's be clear on what those saying "open the economy" really mean. What they mean is that the average wage earners, the middle class and below, return to work as normal, while the rich and elite hunker down in their homes and reap the profits.

Then when it is all said and done, the rich and elite will pat themselves on the back and talk about how they saved the economy and deserve gigantic bonuses and raises.

Saw a tweet today that something to the effect of "As soon as the CEOs agree to take the subway to work and operate their office elevators for the day, we can send everyone else back to work."
Sounds about right.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 24, 2020, 10:30:19 AM

Quote from: muguru on March 23, 2020, 09:50:18 PM

First of all, you aren't supposed to ingest it. People should know that. That's pretty obvious. Second of all, how about we be a bit fair here and also post an article that shows what can happen when done properly..

https://www.foxnews.com/health/florida-man-with-coronavirus-claims-malaria-drug-saved-life

Let's hope that this drug actually works, it would save a lot of lives.  However, there are a few headscratchers in the account.  First, he talks about great difficulty breathing, but no where does it say he was every on a ventilator, so it doesn't sound as if his case was serious enough to require that step.  There is a longer version of this story that I saw where he talks about being on death's door, unable to breath, but also calling various doctors and specialists personally to get approval for taking the drug.  It just doesn't fully add up.

Best case, I think, is this could help with milder cases or to reduce the effects of COVID-19.  So far, at least, the medical community doesn't think it is a miracle cure though.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 24, 2020, 10:32:35 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 24, 2020, 10:08:58 AM

Saw a tweet today that something to the effect of "As soon as the CEOs agree to take the subway to work and operate their office elevators for the day, we can send everyone else back to work."
Sounds about right.

I get that sentiment. But I've also seen plenty of social media posts from average-Joe types expressing fear about what will happen if they are out of work much longer. People want to be back to work too.

Too many posts like the above assume that CEOs only care about the bottom line because of how it affects their own paycheck or bonus. Improving the bottom line is usually in the best interest of all employees, not just the bosses. And believe it or not, it's possible to be an executive and to care about the people in your organization. I can promise you there are business owners and corporate executives all over the world right now that are absolutely sick over the layoffs and limited pay for their employees due to the measures being taken.

People's well-being involves both health and financial security. It's not one or the other. Hopefully Congress can put aside their differences long enough this week to help the workers who are desperately missing their normal wages now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 24, 2020, 10:41:03 AM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 24, 2020, 10:32:35 AM

I get that sentiment. But I've also seen plenty of social media posts from average-Joe types expressing fear about what will happen if they are out of work much longer. People want to be back to work too.

Too many posts like the above assume that CEOs only care about the bottom line because of how it affects their own paycheck or bonus. Improving the bottom line is usually in the best interest of all employees, not just the bosses. And believe it or not, it's possible to be an executive and to care about the people in your organization. I can promise you there are business owners and corporate executives all over the world right now that are absolutely sick over the layoffs and limited pay for their employees due to the measures being taken.

People's well-being involves both health and financial security. It's not one or the other. Hopefully Congress can put aside their differences long enough this week to help the workers who are desperately missing their normal wages now.

I agree about putting aside differences but unfortunately in this case were talking about the core difference between the two parties. Dems aren't going to pass a stimulus structured around trickle down economics without measures ensuring it all trickles down and doesn't just help the company. I personally would rather they do take a thorough review and ensure this plan is actually helpful to the "average joe"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 24, 2020, 10:58:32 AM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 24, 2020, 10:32:35 AM

I get that sentiment. But I've also seen plenty of social media posts from average-Joe types expressing fear about what will happen if they are out of work much longer. People want to be back to work too.

Of course this is true, but I don't see how that contradicts my point.

Quote

Too many posts like the above assume that CEOs only care about the bottom line because of how it affects their own paycheck or bonus. Improving the bottom line is usually in the best interest of all employees, not just the bosses. And believe it or not, it's possible to be an executive and to care about the people in your organization. I can promise you there are business owners and corporate executives all over the world right now that are absolutely sick over the layoffs and limited pay for their employees due to the measures being taken.

I mean, yeah, I'm sure there are plenty of executives who care. But there are too many examples to count of those who do not, or those whose care for their employees well-being is a distant consideration.

Not to re-hash old debates, but simply put, if we make the health crisis go away, the economic crisis eventually will end as well. But if we don't prioritize the health crisis, the economic crisis won't get better.

As for Congress, I'm OK with them slowing their roll on this a bit. We're talking $2 trillion, 10 percent of the GDP. A good package at the end of the week is better than a bad package today.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lighthouse 84 on March 24, 2020, 11:04:28 AM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 24, 2020, 08:47:57 AM

Another big sports announcement related to the virus. The Olympics will be postponed, likely to next year. No doubt it's the right move, but with so many moving pieces involved with coordinating such a big, global event, I'm curious to see how the change will be handled.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/olympics-coronavirus-2020-postponed-canceled-tokyo-130054336.html (https://www.yahoo.com/sports/olympics-coronavirus-2020-postponed-canceled-tokyo-130054336.html)

Just don't cancel the Ryder Cup!  I've got tickets for Saturday!
I'll be pissed if it happens, but obviously in the grand scheme of things, it will only feel like the end of the world....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 24, 2020, 11:05:50 AM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 24, 2020, 10:32:35 AM

I get that sentiment. But I've also seen plenty of social media posts from average-Joe types expressing fear about what will happen if they are out of work much longer. People want to be back to work too.

Too many posts like the above assume that CEOs only care about the bottom line because of how it affects their own paycheck or bonus. Improving the bottom line is usually in the best interest of all employees, not just the bosses. And believe it or not, it's possible to be an executive and to care about the people in your organization. I can promise you there are business owners and corporate executives all over the world right now that are absolutely sick over the layoffs and limited pay for their employees due to the measures being taken.

People's well-being involves both health and financial security. It's not one or the other. Hopefully Congress can put aside their differences long enough this week to help the workers who are desperately missing their normal wages now.

People want to get to work...because they want to make sure they are financially healthy.  They want to put themselves an their loved ones at risk because they are fearful of the financial implications.

That is why we need immediate expansion of unemployment benefits.  And for those business owners who have financial issues as well, that is why we need grants and loans made available.

It won't be helpful to our economy to send everyone back to work, only to have cases spike and us having to shut down everthing once again.  Or decide that the human cost isn't high enough.

The federal government has the ability to provide people with short and medium term financial security.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 24, 2020, 11:38:07 AM

India locked down.  Save yourself!

https://www.foxnews.com/world/coronavirus-india-lockdown-train-network-halted-modi-save-yourself

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 24, 2020, 11:40:35 AM

over 400k today

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 24, 2020, 11:52:40 AM

Prioritize the health crisis.

Let the government deal with the short/medium-term financial problems of employees and small businesses.

That way, we're preventing rapid spread and average Joe isn't stressing about paying their rent.

Going back to work now, or in a week, is a TERRIBLE idea.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 24, 2020, 11:55:55 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 24, 2020, 11:52:40 AM

Prioritize the health crisis.

Let the government deal with the short/medium-term financial problems of employees and small businesses.

That way, we're preventing rapid spread and average Joe isn't stressing about paying their rent.

Going back to work now, or in a week, is a TERRIBLE idea.

Yep. Every other country, even Trump's buddy Boris in the UK, has figured this out. I wish he would follow his lead.

As much as I didn't like Boris before, he seems to be competently handling this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Johnny B on March 24, 2020, 12:02:09 PM

We will wait until its utter chaos before federal lockdown sadly. Looks like trump wants to power through and do the herd immunity deal

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 24, 2020, 12:15:14 PM

Quote from: Coleman on March 24, 2020, 11:55:55 AM

Yep. Every other country, even Trump's buddy Boris in the UK, has figured this out. I wish he would follow his lead.

As much as I didn't like Boris before, he seems to be competently handling this.

Eh, he was pretty late to the lockdown party as well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on March 24, 2020, 12:16:41 PM

Quote from: Mane'shouse 84 on March 24, 2020, 11:04:28 AM

Just don't cancel the Ryder Cup!  I've got tickets for Saturday!
I'll be pissed if it happens, but obviously in the grand scheme of things, it will only feel like the end of the world....

It’s gonna get cancelled, they’re waiting for ANGC to decide first.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 24, 2020, 12:25:20 PM

Why would they cancel the Ryder Cup right now?  It's at the end of September.  Because of qualifying?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 24, 2020, 12:36:45 PM

Amazon is seeking public donations to assist in paying its workers sick leave.

Amazon did $280 billion in revenue last year, and had $11.9 billion in profits. It is also owned by the wealthiest person in the world, Jeff Bezos, with a current net worth of $113.9 billion currently.



https://popular.info/p/amazon-soliciting-public-donations-141

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 24, 2020, 12:40:43 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 24, 2020, 10:58:32 AM

A- Of course this is true, but I don't see how that contradicts my point.

B- I mean, yeah, I'm sure there are plenty of executives who care. But there are too many examples to count of those who do not, or those whose care for their employees well-being is a distant consideration.

C- Not to re-hash old debates, but simply put, if we make the health crisis go away, the economic crisis eventually will end as well. But if we don't prioritize the health crisis, the economic crisis won't get better.

D- As for Congress, I'm OK with them slowing their roll on this a bit. We're talking $2 trillion, 10 percent of the GDP. A good package at the end of the week is better than a bad package today.

A- The tweet about CEOs came across as if people don't want to be back to work. Maybe that's just how I interpreted it others have much different takes. Probably the case.

B- Selection bias. Stories about rich, powerful dudes being jerks are always hits. Stories about rich guys being good or humble don't get nearly as many clicks. People love punching up. The number of examples provided of a certain scenario may not reflect the prevalence of said scenario.

C- I think we largely agree here. Lots of important stuff is heavily intertwined. You're right, no need to re-hash what has already been said.

D- I agree on how important it is to get this right. And maybe that should take a little longer. What I can't stand is the intentional additions to the bill that are clearly not related to this specific situation. The current 1400 page bill could and probably should be cut in half. Our politicians need to remember who their bosses are.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 24, 2020, 12:44:31 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 24, 2020, 12:25:20 PM

Why would they cancel the Ryder Cup right now?  It's at the end of September.  Because of qualifying?

FWIW, Summerfest just made the announcement to reschedule for September. If officials think Summerfest will be OK to hold in September, maybe the Ryder Cup can keep the original dates.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/entertainment/festivals/summerfest/2020/03/23/summerfest-milwaukee-postponed-september-due-coronavirus-pandemic/2899317001/ (https://www.jsonline.com/story/entertainment/festivals/summerfest/2020/03/23/summerfest-milwaukee-postponed-september-due-coronavirus-pandemic/2899317001/)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 24, 2020, 12:44:41 PM

The India lockdown and the Latin America spread isn't giving me hope that the 'just get to the warm weather' strategy has merit.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 24, 2020, 12:50:31 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 24, 2020, 12:36:45 PM

Amazon is seeking public donations to assist in paying its workers sick leave.

Amazon did $280 billion in revenue last year, and had $11.9 billion in profits. It is also owned by the wealthiest person in the world, Jeff Bezos, with a current net worth of $113.9 billion currently.



https://popular.info/p/amazon-soliciting-public-donations-141

Well, those optics are... I don't need to say it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on March 24, 2020, 12:50:40 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 24, 2020, 12:25:20 PM

Why would they cancel the Ryder Cup right now?  It's at the end of September.  Because of qualifying?

To try and jam the majors into the August-October window would be my guess.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 24, 2020, 12:57:09 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 24, 2020, 12:44:41 PM

The India lockdown and the Latin America spread isn't giving me hope that the 'just get to the warm weather' strategy has merit.

This is 2 weeks old, but early research from the University of Maryland suggests warmer temperatures will help to slow down the spread of the virus.

"Researchers at the Institute of Human Virology at the University of Maryland School of Medicine (UMSOM) and the Global Virus Network (GVN) predict that COVID-19 will follow a seasonal pattern similar to other respiratory viruses like seasonal flu."

“Based on what we have documented so far, it appears that the virus has a harder time spreading between people in warmer, tropical climates,” said study leader Mohammad Sajadi, MD"

https://www.medschool.umaryland.edu/news/2020/Researchers-Predict-Potential-Spread-and-Seasonality-for-COVID-19-Based-on-Climate-Where-Virus-Appears-to-Thrive.html (https://www.medschool.umaryland.edu/news/2020/Researchers-Predict-Potential-Spread-and-Seasonality-for-COVID-19-Based-on-Climate-Where-Virus-Appears-to-Thrive.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on March 24, 2020, 01:03:05 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 24, 2020, 12:25:20 PM

Why would they cancel the Ryder Cup right now?  It's at the end of September.  Because of qualifying?

If Augusta drops in October like rumored, they will postpone. If they can’t have the size crowds they want, they’ll postpone. The PGA needs the event at full strength to keep them afloat.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 24, 2020, 01:09:42 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 24, 2020, 11:52:40 AM

Prioritize the health crisis.

Let the government deal with the short/medium-term financial problems of employees and small businesses.

That way, we're preventing rapid spread and average Joe isn't stressing about paying their rent.

Going back to work now, or in a week, is a TERRIBLE idea.

Spot on.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 24, 2020, 01:14:28 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 24, 2020, 12:44:31 PM

FWIW, Summerfest just made the announcement to reschedule for September. If officials think Summerfest will be OK to hold in September, maybe the Ryder Cup can keep the original dates.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/entertainment/festivals/summerfest/2020/03/23/summerfest-milwaukee-postponed-september-due-coronavirus-pandemic/2899317001/ (https://www.jsonline.com/story/entertainment/festivals/summerfest/2020/03/23/summerfest-milwaukee-postponed-september-due-coronavirus-pandemic/2899317001/)

Maybe.

Or maybe the Olympic folks are right by looking at next year.

At this point, much of it depends on how our "leaders" handle the healthcare aspect of the crisis. And given the paralysis at 1600 Pennsylvania, I wouldn't be too optimistic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mr. Nielsen on March 24, 2020, 01:16:56 PM

 ::)

Good lord, some can't follow the rules of the board.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 24, 2020, 01:20:46 PM

Quote from: Retire0 on March 24, 2020, 01:03:05 PM

If Augusta drops in October like rumored, they will postpone. If they can’t have the size crowds they want, they’ll postpone. The PGA needs the event at full strength to keep them afloat.

From the article:

Quote

“Based on what we have documented so far, it appears that the virus has a harder time spreading between people in warmer, tropical climates,” said study leader Mohammad Sajadi, MD, Associate Professor of Medicine in the UMSOM, physician-scientist at the Institute of Human Virology and a member of GVN.

The team based its predictions on weather data from the previous few months as well as typical patterns from last year to hypothesize on community spread within the next few weeks. “Using 2019 temperature data for March and April, risk of community spread could be predicted to occur in areas just north of the current areas at risk,” said study co-author Augustin Vintzileos, PhD, Assistant Research Scientist in the Earth System Science Interdisciplinary Center at the University of Maryland, College Park. They plan to investigate whether weather and climate forecasts could help provide more certainty to the predictions.

Researchers from Shiraz University of Medical Sciences in Shiraz, Iran, and Shaheed Beheshti University of Medical Sciences in Tehran, Iran also participated in this study.

“I think what is important is that this is a testable hypothesis,” said study co-author Anthony Amoroso, MD, UMSOM Associate Professor of Medicine and Associate Chief of Infectious Diseases who is also Chief of Clinical Care Programs for the Institute of Human Virology. “If it holds true, it could be very helpful for health system preparation, surveillance and containment efforts.”

In areas where the virus has already spread within the community, like Wuhan, Milan, and Tokyo, temperatures did not dip below the freezing mark, the researchers pointed out. They also based their predictions on a study of the novel coronavirus in the laboratory, which found that a temperature of 39 degrees Fahrenheit and humidity level of 20 to 80 percent is most conducive to the virus’s survival.

“Through this extensive research, it has been determined that weather modeling could potentially explain the spread of COVID-19, making it possible to predict the regions that are most likely to be at higher risk of significant community spread in the near future,” said Robert C. Gallo Co-founder & Director, Institute of Human Virology at the University of Maryland School of Medicine and Co-Founder and Chairman of the International Scientific Leadership Board of the GVN.  Dr. Gallo is also The Homer & Martha Gudelsky Distinguished Professor.  “In addition to climate variables, there are multiple factors to be considered when dealing with a pandemic, such as human population densities, human factors, viral genetic evolution and pathogenesis. This work illustrates how collaborative research can contribute to understanding, mitigating and preventing infectious threats.”

Dr. Gallo is a co-founder of the Global Virus Network, which is a consortium of leading virologists spanning 53 Centers of Excellence and nine Affiliates in 32 countries worldwide, working collaboratively to train the next generation, advance knowledge about how to identify and diagnose pandemic viruses, mitigate and control how such viruses spread and make us sick, as well as develop drugs, vaccines and treatments to combat them. The Network has been meeting regularly to discuss the COVID-19 pandemic sharing their expertise in all viral areas and their research findings.

“This study raises some provocative theories that, if correct, could be useful in helping to direct public health strategies,” said UMSOM Dean E. Albert Reece, MD, PhD, MBA, who is also University Executive Vice President for Medical Affairs and the John Z. and Akiko K. Bowers Distinguished Professor. “Perhaps we should be conducting heightened surveillance and expending more resources into areas that currently have the climate that is conducive to community virus spread.”

So, they have zero data except from testing viability of the novel coronavirus in laboratory settings.  I bolded the qualifiers, and there are a ton.

Their hypothesis should be proven correct or incorrect in the coming months.  But watch places like India, Pakistan, Brazil, Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, and most of Central America.  I think the real problem is that many of those countries lack testing capabilities as well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 24, 2020, 01:47:13 PM

Quote from: Mr. Nielsen on March 24, 2020, 01:16:56 PM

::)

Good lord, some can't follow the rules of the board.

Also really hurts their credibility when it comes to actual relevant info. 

But Rocky opened the door to the throwing poo, so....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 24, 2020, 01:47:56 PM

https://twitter.com/mcuban/status/1242441662208622594?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: DegenerateDish on March 24, 2020, 01:51:28 PM

What's the over/under for hitting the 1,000,000 mark in confirmed cases? I'll set it at noon CST April 3rd.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 24, 2020, 01:59:39 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 24, 2020, 01:47:13 PM

Also really hurts their credibility when it comes to actual relevant info. 

But Rocky opened the door to the throwing poo, so....

The door is open for relevant government discussion and criticism.  If you feel someone has posted incorrect or unfair information please try to enlighten others.  That's a better option than saying "rocky's unfairly allowing politics". That's not helpful.  I try to clean up silly bashing of individual politicians (both sides of the isle).  I'm sure there's silly stuff in the thread I missed - but lets just keep moving forward.  Thanks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 24, 2020, 02:02:35 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 24, 2020, 01:20:46 PM

From the article:
So, they have zero data except from testing viability of the novel coronavirus in laboratory settings.  I bolded the qualifiers, and there are a ton.

Their hypothesis should be proven correct or incorrect in the coming months.  But watch places like India, Pakistan, Brazil, Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, and most of Central America.  I think the real problem is that many of those countries lack testing capabilities as well.

The first paragraph in the link ends with - "They base this on weather modeling data in countries where the virus has taken hold and spread within the community." So they do have data for what has happened so far.

And based on the data they've collected, they find "The distribution of significant community outbreaks along restricted latitude, temperature, and humidity are consistent with the behavior of a seasonal respiratory virus."

If that's not enough, here's some additional research that might be more convincing for you.

"high temperature and high relative humidity significantly reduce the transmission of COVID-19, respectively, even after controlling for population density and GDP per capita of cities"

"we show that the severity is negatively related to temperature and relative humidity using 14 countries with more than 20 new cases during this period"

"respiratory droplets, as containers of viruses, remain airborne longer in dry air. Second, cold and dry weather can also weaken the hosts’ immunity and make them more susceptible to the virus"

https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/2003/2003.05003.pdf (https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/2003/2003.05003.pdf)

"Our models support the view that the incidence of the virus will follow a seasonal pattern with outbreaks being favored by cool and dry weather, while being slowed down by extreme conditions of cold and heat as well as moist."

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.12.20034728v1.full.pdf (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.12.20034728v1.full.pdf)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 24, 2020, 02:05:54 PM

So...officially (CDC count) 11k cases added since yesterday.  That's after an average of 6k per day over the weekend (they only report Fri & Mon numbers).   In comparison, last Monday to Tuesday, 800 cases were added.  Curve is not flattening yet.  Going WAY the wrong direction.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 24, 2020, 02:06:50 PM

Here is a new data set on the number of tests performed by each state:
https://covidtracking.com/data/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 24, 2020, 02:11:20 PM

https://twitter.com/GovMikeDeWine/status/1242517011550416897?s=19

Anyone think we could see a standoff between the governors and the feds?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 24, 2020, 02:15:21 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 24, 2020, 02:05:54 PM

So...officially (CDC count) 11k cases added since yesterday.  That's after an average of 6k per day over the weekend (they only report Fri & Mon numbers).   In comparison, last Monday to Tuesday, 800 cases were added.  Curve is not flattening yet.  Going WAY the wrong direction.

Yep. We will soon have the dubious honor of passing Italy and then China. Probably before the week is out.... :(

[Note: the following sentence was kept deliberately vague to keep from offending the more politically sensitive among us.] It sure would be nice if someone in power took more serious steps to flatten the curve.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 24, 2020, 02:17:58 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 24, 2020, 02:05:54 PM

So...officially (CDC count) 11k cases added since yesterday.  That's after an average of 6k per day over the weekend (they only report Fri & Mon numbers).   In comparison, last Monday to Tuesday, 800 cases were added.  Curve is not flattening yet.  Going WAY the wrong direction.

I think it is too early for "social distancing" policies to have shown up yet.  With a few exceptions, shut downs didn't even start until March 14th and even then it was extremely patchwork. 

If the data out of Italy continues to trend down, there is some hope that the policies work faster than expected, but I think we should expect at least another week of climbing up the curve.  Even if that happens, though, it seems idiotic to send everyone back to their normal lives before this is substantially tamped down or we'll just start right up a second leg of the curve.

IMO, the U.S. case fatality rate is artificially high for were we are in the outbreak with the health care system not (yet at least) overwhelmed, which I attribute to our low testing numbers and those being done only on very obviously sick people.  I think we should be much closer to Germany, but that also implies that we have a much higher number of actual cases than the data represents, which I think most everyone agrees on.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 24, 2020, 02:31:49 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 24, 2020, 02:05:54 PM

So...officially (CDC count) 11k cases added since yesterday.  That's after an average of 6k per day over the weekend (they only report Fri & Mon numbers).   In comparison, last Monday to Tuesday, 800 cases were added.  Curve is not flattening yet.  Going WAY the wrong direction.

I'd be very curious to see the testing numbers over the same period. Or even the number of hospitalizations, which is the number that is really the most important in the flattening strategy. An increase in confirmed cases due to an increase in tests processed may not be indicative of a worsening of the spread.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 24, 2020, 02:34:17 PM

Have there been any examples of health experts saying we should get back to work?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 24, 2020, 02:35:40 PM

Curve isn't going to flatten for awhile.  Especially with our patchwork method of locking down.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on March 24, 2020, 02:41:06 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 24, 2020, 02:35:40 PM

Curve isn't going to flatten for awhile.  Especially with our patchwork method of locking down.

That and the fact that any lock down instituted today won't pay dividends that would show up in infection numbers for 10-14 days

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 24, 2020, 02:43:56 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 24, 2020, 02:35:40 PM

Curve isn't going to flatten for awhile.  Especially with our patchwork method of locking down.

And even with the state to state patchwork, those states that have locked down aren't really locking down anything significant as it seems every single job is "essential"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: lawdog77 on March 24, 2020, 02:46:04 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 24, 2020, 02:06:50 PM

Here is a new data set on the number of tests performed by each state:
https://covidtracking.com/data/

New Jersey numbersa are crazy:
New Jersey
New Jersey on Twitter
Positive
2,844
Negative
359
Pending
94
Hospitalized
N/A
Deaths
27
Total
3,297

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 24, 2020, 02:58:38 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 24, 2020, 02:31:49 PM

I'd be very curious to see the testing numbers over the same period. Or even the number of hospitalizations, which is the number that is really the most important in the flattening strategy. An increase in confirmed cases due to an increase in tests processed may not be indicative of a worsening of the spread.

Testing numbers are here - but a little lagged. 
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/testing-in-us.html

Yesterday they finally got to the 75k tests, with 33k positive.  Bigger % than I originally predicted, but that's largely due to who they've determined gets tested.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 24, 2020, 03:06:24 PM

Looking at countries that seem to be on top of this (not many) Denmark's response seems to be working.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 24, 2020, 03:08:07 PM

Quote from: lawdog77 on March 24, 2020, 02:46:04 PM

New Jersey numbersa are crazy:
New Jersey
New Jersey on Twitter
Positive
2,844
Negative
359
Pending
94
Hospitalized
N/A
Deaths
27
Total
3,297

Jesus tap dancing Christ.  94 pending?  What a failure.  This makes me want to puke.

I don't know how our health care workers are going into work with no PPE, and no testing being done.  They're fighting a god damned wildfire with squirt guns.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 24, 2020, 03:20:27 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 24, 2020, 02:11:20 PM

https://twitter.com/GovMikeDeWine/status/1242517011550416897?s=19

Anyone think we could see a standoff between the governors and the feds?

Yes. Trump wants things opened up by April 12th. That means he will have to override orders from govs.

Should be interesting.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 24, 2020, 03:21:48 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 24, 2020, 03:20:27 PM

Yes. Trump wants things opened up by April 12th. That means he will have to override orders from govs.

Should be interesting.

How does that work in the states rights vs fed? Also wouldn't it be ironic if we see a R president overruling the states... seems contradictory

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 24, 2020, 03:43:24 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 24, 2020, 12:57:09 PM

This is 2 weeks old, but early research from the University of Maryland suggests warmer temperatures will help to slow down the spread of the virus.

"Researchers at the Institute of Human Virology at the University of Maryland School of Medicine (UMSOM) and the Global Virus Network (GVN) predict that COVID-19 will follow a seasonal pattern similar to other respiratory viruses like seasonal flu."

“Based on what we have documented so far, it appears that the virus has a harder time spreading between people in warmer, tropical climates,” said study leader Mohammad Sajadi, MD"

https://www.medschool.umaryland.edu/news/2020/Researchers-Predict-Potential-Spread-and-Seasonality-for-COVID-19-Based-on-Climate-Where-Virus-Appears-to-Thrive.html (https://www.medschool.umaryland.edu/news/2020/Researchers-Predict-Potential-Spread-and-Seasonality-for-COVID-19-Based-on-Climate-Where-Virus-Appears-to-Thrive.html)

I don't disagree with their conclusion that the warmer weather will slow the spread, this is typically true for most viruses. The question is, how much? We see this spreading readily in warm climates (Equador has over 1000 cases and is likely not conducting robust testing).

Let's say right now the Ro is 3.0. Well in a warmer climate it may be 1.5. That would decrease the spread, but in a population that does not have any herd immunity, it will still spread quite rapidly if we do not have social distancing.

Now, let's say we relax social distancing because spread decreases in the warmer weather. What we'd have is a circulating population of maybe 10k active cases (these are random numbers for convenience sake). That's not good, because as soon as fall roles around and Ro goes back to 3.0, we see doubling every 2 days again, and we are at a million cases within a 2-week time period, barely long enough to realize it is happening and we are overwhelmed again.

We really need a vaccine.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: lawdog77 on March 24, 2020, 03:46:19 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 24, 2020, 03:08:07 PM

Jesus tap dancing Christ.  94 pending?  What a failure.  This makes me want to puke.

I don't know how our health care workers are going into work with no PPE, and no testing being done.  They're fighting a god damned wildfire with squirt guns.

And a 90% positive rate??? Compare that to other states. Something isnt right.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 24, 2020, 03:54:48 PM

Quote from: lawdog77 on March 24, 2020, 03:46:19 PM

And a 90% positive rate??? Compare that to other states. Something isnt right.

Well I'm sure the shortage is causing them to only test people they are quite sure are positive for Covid19.  The 94 pending tells me that there still isn't enough tests.  TWO WEEKS after we were promised millions by the end of last week.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 24, 2020, 03:57:54 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 24, 2020, 03:54:48 PM

Well I'm sure the shortage is causing them to only test people they are quite sure are positive for Covid19.  The 94 pending tells me that there still isn't enough tests.  TWO WEEKS after we were promised millions by the end of last week.

Have there been any updates on the Jack Ma testing kit promise? Has he been able to help deliver any yet?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 24, 2020, 04:01:04 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 24, 2020, 03:57:54 PM

Have there been any updates on the Jack Ma testing kit promise? Has he been able to help deliver any yet?

No idea.  It will remain to be seen, but historically speaking... do you remember when the Notre Dame cathedral burned?  A lot of famous billionaires pledged a lot of money to repair it... guess how much money the cathedral has seen from them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 24, 2020, 04:02:45 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 24, 2020, 03:54:48 PM

Well I'm sure the shortage is causing them to only test people they are quite sure are positive for Covid19.  The 94 pending tells me that there still isn't enough tests.  TWO WEEKS after we were promised millions by the end of last week.

Wait - I think pending just means "Sample taken to lab, no results yet".  Not waiting for a test to be available.
https://www.nj.gov/health/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 24, 2020, 04:08:17 PM

No surprise, Liberty University is opening back up next week after spring break and having the students come back instead of online classrooms like the rest of the USA.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on March 24, 2020, 04:11:24 PM

Johns Hopkins study says US was more prepared for a pandemic than any other country..

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/us-was-most-prepared-country-in-the-world-for-pandemics-johns-hopkins-study-found-in-2019

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 24, 2020, 04:17:22 PM

Quote from: muguru on March 24, 2020, 04:11:24 PM

Johns Hopkins study says US was more prepared for a pandemic than any other country..

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/us-was-most-prepared-country-in-the-world-for-pandemics-johns-hopkins-study-found-in-2019

What the study found was that every country, including the US, was unprepared. And that's what has been proven these past few months.

https://hub.jhu.edu/2020/02/27/trump-johns-hopkins-study-pandemic-coronaviruscovid-19-649-em0-art1-dtd-health/


Though the U.S. does sit atop the rankings, overall the report—produced by the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security at the university's Bloomberg School of Public Health, the Nuclear Threat Initiative, and The Economist Intelligence Unit—paints a discouraging picture of global readiness.
"National health security is fundamentally weak around the world," the 324-page report concludes. "No country is fully prepared for epidemics or pandemics, and every country has important gaps to address."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 24, 2020, 04:18:30 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 24, 2020, 04:02:45 PM

Wait - I think pending just means "Sample taken to lab, no results yet".  Not waiting for a test to be available.
https://www.nj.gov/health/

Yes, of course.  But that IS the problem.  In all of New Jersey, there are only 93 outstanding tests to be checked.  If there were more tests, there would be more outstanding.  The bottle neck is in the number of tests available.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 24, 2020, 04:19:18 PM

Quote from: muguru on March 24, 2020, 04:11:24 PM

Johns Hopkins study says US was more prepared for a pandemic than any other country..

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/us-was-most-prepared-country-in-the-world-for-pandemics-johns-hopkins-study-found-in-2019

That may well be true. Then the current results point to a lack of execution by leadership.

There is preparation, and then there is how you respond. 2 completely separate things.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on March 24, 2020, 04:29:24 PM

Quote from: Coleman on March 24, 2020, 04:19:18 PM

That may well be true. Then the current results point to a lack of execution by leadership.

There is preparation, and then there is how you respond. 2 completely separate things.

But see...this is where everyone's hatred for the current President shows. Why doesn't anyone talk about the fact that had China not hid this from the world(and destroyed records of it along the way as well as silenced doctors etc), that we would have been more prepared and executed better had we known about it sooner. That's just facts.

I have my own theories on why China didn't alert the US to it sooner..but I will keep that to myself.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 24, 2020, 04:32:12 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 24, 2020, 02:43:56 PM

And even with the state to state patchwork, those states that have locked down aren't really locking down anything significant as it seems every single job is "essential"

Yep. Looking at the CT list, it seems as though everyone other than clowns and mimes are "essential." Makes it kind of a faux lockdown.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 24, 2020, 04:33:54 PM

Quote from: muguru on March 24, 2020, 04:29:24 PM

But see...this is where everyone's hatred for the current President shows. Why doesn't anyone talk about the fact that had China not hid this from the world(and destroyed records of it along the way as well as silenced doctors etc), that we would have been more prepared and executed better had we known about it sooner. That's just facts.

I have my own theories on why China didn't alert the US to it sooner..but I will keep that to myself.

Never mind not worth it with him.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 24, 2020, 04:37:01 PM

Quote from: muguru on March 24, 2020, 04:29:24 PM

But see...this is where everyone's hatred for the current President shows. Why doesn't anyone talk about the fact that had China not hid this from the world(and destroyed records of it along the way as well as silenced doctors etc), that we would have been more prepared and executed better had we known about it sooner. That's just facts.

I have my own theories on why China didn't alert the US to it sooner..but I will keep that to myself.

I don't hate the president. I honestly hope he comes to his senses, listens to medical professionals, and kicks this things ass! If he is successful, he could earn a 2nd term. I am not rooting against him.

But when he is not acting in the best interests of our public welfare, I am going to say so.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 24, 2020, 04:39:57 PM

Quote from: muguru on March 24, 2020, 04:29:24 PM

But see...this is where everyone's hatred for the current President shows. Why doesn't anyone talk about the fact that had China not hid this from the world(and destroyed records of it along the way as well as silenced doctors etc), that we would have been more prepared and executed better had we known about it sooner. That's just facts.

I have my own theories on why China didn't alert the US to it sooner..but I will keep that to myself.

I am fine criticizing China - what they did was appalling. So yes, let's pile it on China.

But once we knew it was coming here, and given how "prepared" we were according to the JHU study, how do you explain the fact that we are skyrocketing through a poll that we don't want to be #1 in? Might it have anything to do with poor execution by a well-prepared country? And who is ultimately responsible for the execution of plans in this country? Might that responsibility fall to the head of the Executive Branch?

If that person actually listened to the advice of his experts and executed the plan that they advise, we would be in much better shape than we are today.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 24, 2020, 04:44:22 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 24, 2020, 04:08:17 PM

No surprise, Liberty University is opening back up next week after spring break and having the students come back instead of online classrooms like the rest of the USA.

That's not accurate.  They are going online the rest of the semester, but allowing students to move back to the residence halls and requiring faculty and staff to work from campus.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on March 24, 2020, 04:47:00 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 24, 2020, 03:21:48 PM

How does that work in the states rights vs fed? Also wouldn't it be ironic if we see a R president overruling the states... seems contradictory

It is, but it stopped being ironic a long time ago.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 24, 2020, 04:53:22 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 24, 2020, 04:32:12 PM

Yep. Looking at the CT list, it seems as though everyone other than clowns and mimes are "essential." Makes it kind of a faux lockdown.

My wife's employer is closing several plants in multiple countries, as they are deemed non-essential. There are plenty of industries and jobs that are being excluded.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 24, 2020, 04:54:17 PM

Quote from: muguru on March 24, 2020, 04:29:24 PM

But see...this is where everyone's hatred for the current President shows. Why doesn't anyone talk about the fact that had China not hid this from the world(and destroyed records of it along the way as well as silenced doctors etc), that we would have been more prepared and executed better had we known about it sooner. That's just facts.

I have my own theories on why China didn't alert the US to it sooner..but I will keep that to myself.

See no.  That's the exact wrong way to interpret this and leads me to believe you didn't read the article.

This report is from October.  Long before the current crisis.  And YES!!!  We were prepared!!!  But being prepared doesn't mean much if we don't execute well on that preparedness when the time comes.  And that's exactly what happened. 

Which is even more damning of the current administration considering that these people STILL were denying it was a problem as of about three weeks ago.  Even though we HAD a plan, and considered quite prepared, we F*CKED up the execution.

So no matter how many times you practice the onside kick, there's always a chance its gonna get screwed up when the time times.

In short....Donald Trump is the nation's Brian Bostick.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 24, 2020, 05:05:37 PM

Quote from: muguru on March 24, 2020, 04:29:24 PM

But see...this is where everyone's hatred for the current President shows. Why doesn't anyone talk about the fact that had China not hid this from the world(and destroyed records of it along the way as well as silenced doctors etc), that we would have been more prepared and executed better had we known about it sooner. That's just facts.

Everybody has talked about this. Quite a bit. Including in this thread.

In fact, I would guess the only reason you know about this is because it's been reported in the media  repeatedly.
Like these NY Times pieces:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/03/opinion/coronavirus-china-xi-jinping.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/06/world/asia/china-coronavirus-image.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/29/opinion/coronavirus-china-government.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/15/opinion/sunday/china-coronavirus.html

Or these in the Washington Post:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/15/opinion/sunday/china-coronavirus.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/03/10/wuhan-officials-tried-cover-up-covid-19-sent-it-careening-outward/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/18/chinas-coronavirus-propaganda-campaign-is-putting-lives-risk/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 24, 2020, 05:07:25 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 24, 2020, 04:32:12 PM

Yep. Looking at the CT list, it seems as though everyone other than clowns and mimes are "essential." Makes it kind of a faux lockdown.

If this is what it takes to get rid of clowns, then burn this mfer down.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 24, 2020, 05:12:53 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 24, 2020, 04:54:17 PM

See no.  That's the exact wrong way to interpret this and leads me to believe you didn't read the article.

This report is from October.  Long before the current crisis.  And YES!!!  We were prepared!!!  But being prepared doesn't mean much if we don't execute well on that preparedness when the time comes.  And that's exactly what happened. 

Which is even more damning of the current administration considering that these people STILL were denying it was a problem as of about three weeks ago.  Even though we HAD a plan, and considered quite prepared, we F*CKED up the execution.

So no matter how many times you practice the onside kick, there's always a chance its gonna get screwed up when the time times.

In short....Donald Trump is the nation's Brian Bostick.

I don't think anyone commenting on this has really dug into what being prepared means. The report is crazy long, and the rankings aren't crystal clear to me. But the one thing that seems clear is that a lot of the measures considered in the index have nothing to do with response plans and more to do with the existing healthcare system, data collection and reporting capabilities, and even infrastructure. Planning is definitely included here, but it's not clear whether there was a detailed review of the quality of response plans or if this was more of a review to understand what scenarios had been thought through.

So using your analogy, the US was well-positioned for the onside kick because we had a practice facility to work on the kick, a camera to record and review the practice attempts, and we had discussed when an onside kick might be needed at some point in the future. Compared to other countries who don't even have a football or a tee, we were in great shape to execute well.

That's my takeaway after skimming through the first 50 or so pages out of 300+

Edit - I found what I was looking for. The review of a country's response is largely yes/no as to whether plans exist, if they've been updated, if they're publicly available, etc. While some of this might help address whether the plan is of a high quality, there doesn't seem to be a detailed review of the plan. The US having any plan at all seems to give us a good score here. The details are on p.100-102 of the paper.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 24, 2020, 05:15:27 PM

Quote from: muguru on March 24, 2020, 04:29:24 PM

But see...this is where everyone's hatred for the current President shows. Why doesn't anyone talk about the fact that had China not hid this from the world(and destroyed records of it along the way as well as silenced doctors etc), that we would have been more prepared and executed better had we known about it sooner. That's just facts.

I have my own theories on why China didn't alert the US to it sooner..but I will keep that to myself.

Serious question. Given how we performed with multiple weeks of advanced notice on what to expect, and what it was, how well do you think we'd have handled this if it came here first?

We are technically hiding the number of infected and those dying, due to a lack of testing. We hid the spread of it in the US initially, because of failures. Leaders were saying it was contained, and not spreading, that there was nothing to worry about, and that the flu is much worse.

It is easy to pile on China now, but as recent as late January, people in our nation were thanking/congratulating President Xi for his transparency and help in us stopping this thing.

Maybe China deliberately hid everything, maybe they had nefarious motives, or maybe they just weren't prepared, mishandled it, and this spread terribly as a result. Remember, the WHO was on the ground there, and providing the same info. But at the same time, most of the rest of the world was not prepared, mishandled it, and contributed to its terrible thread.

Let's get this fixed first, then go back and figure out as a world-wide community how we can avoid something like this happening again. And if people did have nefarious motives, the world-wide community should make sure that they are held responsible.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 24, 2020, 05:19:36 PM

Quote from: muguru on March 24, 2020, 04:29:24 PM

But see...this is where everyone's hatred for the current President shows. Why doesn't anyone talk about the fact that had China not hid this from the world(and destroyed records of it along the way as well as silenced doctors etc), that we would have been more prepared and executed better had we known about it sooner. That's just facts.

I have my own theories on why China didn't alert the US to it sooner..but I will keep that to myself.

Sooner?  Using only Wisconsin as a barometer, UW hospital in Madison had its first case of Coronavirus on February 5th.  Do the math on how long ago that was, and this is the response of the last Superpower in the world?

Eight weeks

And this is what we have?  You can blame China, and they should eat some of the blame, but come the eff on dude.  Our Federal government's response has been worse than awful.  Only two weeks ago did we decide we needed testing.  What?  So six weeks of lead time... what did we do with that time?  One week ago, we decided that ventilators were important.  So, despite all of the data, we just watched the tsunami rolling our way, and we did NOTHING.  We waited until there was a major outbreak before we realized that, oh hey maybe we should get some more ventilators manufactured.  What a total and utter failure of our government.

And then there are idiots who have the audacity to defend this?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Archies Bat on March 24, 2020, 05:20:06 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 24, 2020, 04:54:17 PM

See no.  That's the exact wrong way to interpret this and leads me to believe you didn't read the article.

This report is from October.  Long before the current crisis.  And YES!!!  We were prepared!!!  But being prepared doesn't mean much if we don't execute well on that preparedness when the time comes.  And that's exactly what happened. 

Which is even more damning of the current administration considering that these people STILL were denying it was a problem as of about three weeks ago.  Even though we HAD a plan, and considered quite prepared, we F*CKED up the execution.

So no matter how many times you practice the onside kick, there's always a chance its gonna get screwed up when the time times.

In short....Donald Trump is the nation's Brian Bostick.

Leans political, but love the Bostick reference.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 24, 2020, 05:29:18 PM

Learnings from Wuhan.  Also replicated in SK around not keeping the sick at home.   

 https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-west-is-misinterpreting-wuhans-coronavirus-progressand-drawing-the-wrong-lessons-11585074966?mod=e2fb (https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-west-is-misinterpreting-wuhans-coronavirus-progressand-drawing-the-wrong-lessons-11585074966?mod=e2fb)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 24, 2020, 05:31:18 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 24, 2020, 05:19:36 PM

What a total and utter failure of our government.

And then there are idiots who have the audacity to defend this?

It sounds more and more like you have a vested interest in this being bad. Which explains a lot. And it's probably true of a lot of people here and around the country.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 24, 2020, 05:31:57 PM

Quote from: muguru on March 24, 2020, 04:29:24 PM

But see...this is where everyone's hatred for the current President shows. Why doesn't anyone talk about the fact that had China not hid this from the world(and destroyed records of it along the way as well as silenced doctors etc), that we would have been more prepared and executed better had we known about it sooner. That's just facts.

I have my own theories on why China didn't alert the US to it sooner..but I will keep that to myself.

There are plenty of people criticizing China for hiding the extent of the virus, which they did throughout the early part of January.

Then, on January 11th they published the virus' genome with the WHO.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/chinese-researchers-reveal-draft-genome-virus-implicated-wuhan-pneumonia-outbreak

They then admitted person-to-person transmission on January 20th and shut down Wuhan on January 23rd
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Hubei_lockdowns

During January and February, US Intelligence was briefing Trump that this was likely a pandemic
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/20/politics/us-intelligence-reports-trump-coronavirus/index.html

So, China was less than aboveboard, but at minimum Trump had from January 23rd to March 16th to "execute better" as you say.  What did he do?  He spent the time downplaying it, claiming it was a hoax, claiming it was contained, and congratulating himself on his response.
https://therecount.com/watch/trump-coronavirus-calendar/2645515793?fbclid=IwAR2V6v2eAlfhxi-xpLoPT7ClwYbzz7m62gD12Lp5LnZ6T4bb2EBqgnQ4vfE

So he had 7 weeks at minimum to execute.  He didn't.  But he has done an exceptional job, as usual, getting you to focus your blame elsewhere.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 24, 2020, 05:34:12 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 24, 2020, 05:31:18 PM

It sounds more and more like you have a vested interest in this being bad. Which explains a lot. And it's probably true of a lot of people here and around the country.

Are you saying he wants thousands to die?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 24, 2020, 05:45:05 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 24, 2020, 05:31:18 PM

It sounds more and more like you have a vested interest in this being bad. Which explains a lot. And it's probably true of a lot of people here and around the country.

This borders on "people opposed to the war are anti-American" and "those who protest police brutality hate cops."
I feel safe saying nobody here wants this to be bad (well, worse ... it's already bad).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 24, 2020, 05:49:52 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 24, 2020, 05:31:18 PM

It sounds more and more like you have a vested interest in this being bad. Which explains a lot. And it's probably true of a lot of people here and around the country.

Even IF he does.. at least he wants it to be bad for the economy and not bad in thousands to millions of dead.

Too bad that doesn't apply to everyone

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 24, 2020, 05:54:19 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 24, 2020, 05:34:12 PM

Are you saying he wants thousands to die?

I'm saying he and others are overly focused on only discussing the most negative aspects of the current situation and the uglier potential future situations here. Any potentially reassuring data or study gets dismissed or ignored pretty quickly. Anything that builds the case for bigger numbers gets built up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 24, 2020, 05:55:51 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 24, 2020, 05:54:19 PM

I'm saying he and others are overly focused on the most negative aspects of the current situation and the uglier potential future situations here. Any potentially reassuring data or study gets dismissed or ignored pretty quickly. Anything that builds the case for bigger numbers gets built up.

Are you saying that people focused on the absolute worst that could happen to the economy aren't also focused on the most negative aspects?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 24, 2020, 06:02:05 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 24, 2020, 05:55:51 PM

Are you saying that people focused on the absolute worst that could happen to the economy aren't also focused on the most negative aspects?

Sure. But I see a lot less of that. Could just be about where I'm looking I guess.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 24, 2020, 06:10:17 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 24, 2020, 05:31:18 PM

It sounds more and more like you have a vested interest in this being bad. Which explains a lot. And it's probably true of a lot of people here and around the country.

Oh please.  I've been the one beating the drum since January that this is going to be bad unless we do something.  I have very close friends that are doctors and nurses in Wisconsin and Illinois.  Our family business is operating at less than 10% capacity since last week.  My parents are on a god damned cruise ship just off of South America that is currently reporting 87 people with flu like symptoms.  There is a boat that should be meeting them in two days with supplies, and covid tests.  Both parents are over 70 and have underlying health conditions.

So understand me when I say, that I have absolutely EVERYTHING to lose, and I am DISGUSTED by our government's response.  I am just some yahoo from Wisconsin, and even I could see what was coming for over two months!

You, sir, can go straight to hell.  I'm sorry you can't math yourself out of this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 24, 2020, 06:15:09 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 24, 2020, 06:10:17 PM

Oh please.  I've been the one beating the drum since January that this is going to be bad unless we do something.  I have very close friends that are doctors and nurses in Wisconsin and Illinois.  Our family business is operating at less than 10% capacity since last week.  My parents are on a god damned cruise ship just off of South America that is currently reporting 87 people with flu like symptoms.  There is a boat that should be meeting them in two days with supplies, and covid tests.  Both parents are over 70 and have underlying health conditions.

So understand me when I say, that I have absolutely EVERYTHING to lose, and I am DISGUSTED by our government's response.  I am just some yahoo from Wisconsin, and even I could see what was coming for over two months!

You, sir, can go straight to hell.  I'm sorry you can't math yourself out of this.

I overstepped, and I'm sorry for that. Understanding the situation you're in makes it clear why this is so important to you. What I interpreted as political bias was actually driven something else more meaningful.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 24, 2020, 06:15:57 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 24, 2020, 06:15:09 PM

I overstepped, and I'm sorry for that. Understanding the situation you're in makes it clear why this is so important to you. What I interpreted as political bias was actually driven something else more meaningful.

Also sorry, on edge, obviously.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 24, 2020, 06:20:55 PM

IMO trump is just doing what he does best in creating an argument that distracts from the underlying. 

I am encouraged by Birx, Fauci and Adams are still engaged and giving sound advice and measured expectations. 

I’m too worn out to get dragged into the political fighting.  It’s just not worth it. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 24, 2020, 06:23:47 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 24, 2020, 12:57:09 PM

This is 2 weeks old, but early research from the University of Maryland suggests warmer temperatures will help to slow down the spread of the virus.

"Researchers at the Institute of Human Virology at the University of Maryland School of Medicine (UMSOM) and the Global Virus Network (GVN) predict that COVID-19 will follow a seasonal pattern similar to other respiratory viruses like seasonal flu."

“Based on what we have documented so far, it appears that the virus has a harder time spreading between people in warmer, tropical climates,” said study leader Mohammad Sajadi, MD"

https://www.medschool.umaryland.edu/news/2020/Researchers-Predict-Potential-Spread-and-Seasonality-for-COVID-19-Based-on-Climate-Where-Virus-Appears-to-Thrive.html (https://www.medschool.umaryland.edu/news/2020/Researchers-Predict-Potential-Spread-and-Seasonality-for-COVID-19-Based-on-Climate-Where-Virus-Appears-to-Thrive.html)

Yes this is theory and from what I hear from South America and India it makes that not seem to be playing out like portrayed in the model. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 24, 2020, 06:25:51 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 24, 2020, 06:20:55 PM

IMO trump is just doing what he does best in creating an argument that distracts from the underlying. 

I am encouraged by Birx, Fauci and Adams are still engaged and giving sound advice and measured expectations. 

I’m too worn out to get dragged into the political fighting.  It’s just not worth it.

I hear you.

Just a sh!tstorm of epic proportions. I hope people like Fauci and the like can get governors scared enough that more of them take action while the nation's capitol watches. We need to flatten that curve soon....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 24, 2020, 06:26:18 PM

Italy's death totals went back up today.
https://www.france24.com/en/20200324-italy-s-coronavirus-deaths-rise-by-743-in-24-hours-reversing-recent-decline-in-daily-fatalities

Hopefully an outlier against the decline we had seen the previous two days, but my best guess is they will continue to see rising numbers for 7-10 days yet based on the March 13 shutdown date.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 24, 2020, 06:33:02 PM

https://theintercept.com/2020/03/23/gilead-sciences-coronavirus-treatment-orphan-drug-status/

Gilead granted special status so that they can make boat-loads of money if their drug can treat COVID.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 24, 2020, 06:35:52 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 24, 2020, 06:02:05 PM

Sure. But I see a lot less of that. Could just be about where I'm looking I guess.

Fair enough.

I see it about 50/50 with people around me on a daily basis.

Totally anecdotal, but it appears that higher socioeconomic status = more economy concern and lower SE status = more health concern. Again, just my personal interactions.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 24, 2020, 06:36:36 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 24, 2020, 06:20:55 PM

IMO trump is just doing what he does best in creating an argument that distracts from the underlying. 

I am encouraged by Birx, Fauci and Adams are still engaged and giving sound advice and measured expectations. 

I’m too worn out to get dragged into the political fighting.  It’s just not worth it.

I worry they, and any others, will be silenced on the national stage in the coming days and weeks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 24, 2020, 06:36:41 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 24, 2020, 04:32:12 PM

Yep. Looking at the CT list, it seems as though everyone other than clowns and mimes are "essential." Makes it kind of a faux lockdown.

What I can say is that 40% of the factory workers in my place have chosen not to work. 
I would probably work from home but I have 2 kids doing online learning and a wife doing online teaching and at work I have my own office with a door.
Oh and my commute that is normally 40-45 minutes has been 25 minutes and on cruise control most of the way.
People are definitely working from home.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 24, 2020, 06:48:29 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 24, 2020, 06:36:41 PM

What I can say is that 40% of the factory workers in my place have chosen not to work. 
I would probably work from home but I have 2 kids doing online learning and a wife doing online teaching and at work I have my own office with a door.
Oh and my commute that is normally 40-45 minutes has been 25 minutes and on cruise control most of the way.
People are definitely working from home.

Glad to see that people are voluntarily taking steps to flatten the curve. They are showing more leadership than many of our “leaders.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 24, 2020, 07:15:05 PM

Sometimes even good leadership can't fix stupid. Idiots get together to intentionally try to get coronavirus -- and it works.
https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/2020/03/24/coronavirus-kentucky-one-ill-after-coronavirus-party-beshear-says/2911870001/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 24, 2020, 07:48:34 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 24, 2020, 07:15:05 PM

Sometimes even good leadership can't fix stupid. Idiots get together to intentionally try to get coronavirus -- and it works.
https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/2020/03/24/coronavirus-kentucky-one-ill-after-coronavirus-party-beshear-says/2911870001/

Wow - Darwin party.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on March 24, 2020, 07:51:43 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 24, 2020, 06:48:29 PM

Glad to see that people are voluntarily taking steps to flatten the curve. They are showing more leadership than many of our “leaders.”

In our office of 200+ we are down to 35-40 onsite. And a good 15 of those are in our hardware lab, so they can't work remote.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 24, 2020, 08:35:52 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 24, 2020, 07:15:05 PM

Sometimes even good leadership can't fix stupid. Idiots get together to intentionally try to get coronavirus -- and it works.
https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/2020/03/24/coronavirus-kentucky-one-ill-after-coronavirus-party-beshear-says/2911870001/

Benny!?!?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 24, 2020, 11:17:23 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 24, 2020, 06:48:29 PM

Glad to see that people are voluntarily taking steps to flatten the curve. They are showing more leadership than many of our “leaders.”

Our office has been closed since 3/17.  Might try to open to see valid stuff 4/6

Getting crazy calls including a dad frantic that his youngster may have inadvertently pulled out an adult tooth thinking it was a baby tooth??  Would be a first in over 30 years, but...chit continues to happen.  I’m down in Az waiting most of this out and have yet to hear from my office mgr what the story is.  Been too busy putting out other fires and getting a plan together

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 25, 2020, 12:48:56 AM

Senators and White House finally agree on $2T aid package.

https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2020-03-24/congress-white-house-stimulus-deal-coronavirus

Note: big enough deal that I also started a separate thread on it....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 25, 2020, 12:56:22 AM

Wuhan -  back to normal!

See attached pic from NYT (pic from Monday).  I'm sure these employees normally eat on a grid 6' apart!   /teal

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 25, 2020, 10:41:05 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 24, 2020, 06:23:47 PM

Yes this is theory and from what I hear from South America and India it makes that not seem to be playing out like portrayed in the model.

The current data does support the theory, though. What we're seeing in India right now seems to be very much a precautionary move, not a response to a surge in cases. And South American is similar. I know Ecuador has seen an increase, but as we look at all the data globally, South America represents a disproportionately small percentage of cases. And yes, of course, testing plays some role in this, but everyone's testing is limited. Everyone is under-reporting. To what extent, we'll probably never know. Unless you've seen something different for these areas, I think they're actually good examples to support the theory that warmer, more humid weather can/will slow this thing down.

Even looking at the US, the northern states are more heavily impacted than southern states. Seattle has been hit much harder than LA. New York has been hit much harder than Atlanta. All 4 cities have a ton of international flights and would probably be the most likely cities for carriers of the virus to be arriving. That seems to line up with the weather-related research.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 25, 2020, 10:50:48 AM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 25, 2020, 10:41:05 AM

The current data does support the theory, though. What we're seeing in India right now seems to be very much a precautionary move, not a response to a surge in cases. And South American is similar. I know Ecuador has seen an increase, but as we look at all the data globally, South America represents a disproportionately small percentage of cases. And yes, of course, testing plays some role in this, but everyone's testing is limited. Everyone is under-reporting. To what extent, we'll probably never know. Unless you've seen something different for these areas, I think they're actually good examples to support the theory that warmer, more humid weather can/will slow this thing down.

Even looking at the US, the northern states are more heavily impacted than southern states. Seattle has been hit much harder than LA. New York has been hit much harder than Atlanta. All 4 cities have a ton of international flights and would probably be the most likely cities for carriers of the virus to be arriving. That seems to line up with the weather-related research.

You might be right. But I think it's too early to say.

We need either to have significantly more testing or significantly more lab data to draw any conclusions.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 25, 2020, 10:56:39 AM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 25, 2020, 10:41:05 AM

The current data does support the theory, though. What we're seeing in India right now seems to be very much a precautionary move, not a response to a surge in cases. And South American is similar. I know Ecuador has seen an increase, but as we look at all the data globally, South America represents a disproportionately small percentage of cases. And yes, of course, testing plays some role in this, but everyone's testing is limited. Everyone is under-reporting. To what extent, we'll probably never know. Unless you've seen something different for these areas, I think they're actually good examples to support the theory that warmer, more humid weather can/will slow this thing down.

Even looking at the US, the northern states are more heavily impacted than southern states. Seattle has been hit much harder than LA. New York has been hit much harder than Atlanta. All 4 cities have a ton of international flights and would probably be the most likely cities for carriers of the virus to be arriving. That seems to line up with the weather-related research.

I'd probably stay quiet about this until we see what Florida has to show us.  Rumor is that it will be horrible.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 25, 2020, 11:01:30 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 25, 2020, 10:50:48 AM

You might be right. But I think it's too early to say.

We need either to have significantly more testing or significantly more lab data to draw any conclusions.

More tests will always help to clarify, no disagreement there. But wouldn't we be hearing about hospitalizations and the need for more tests and all those things related with high case numbers if there were issues in places like India, Brazil, Argentina, Philippines, etc?

I'm encouraged by the limited news coming out of these warmer areas. We can't be sure, but the research I've shared and the general trends from warmer places all seems to point toward warmer temperatures slowing this down.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 25, 2020, 11:01:56 AM

https://www.si.com/soccer/2020/03/25/atalanta-valencia-coronavirus-champions-league-san-siro-milan-italy?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=si-soccer&xid=socialflow_twitter_si

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 25, 2020, 11:05:00 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 25, 2020, 10:56:39 AM

I'd probably stay quiet about this until we see what Florida has to show us.  Rumor is that it will be horrible.

I'm trying to stick with research as much as I can. We might see something different from Florida, but so far, the trends from warmer areas in the US align with the conclusions drawn from research. I'm hoping that trend continues.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 25, 2020, 11:21:08 AM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 25, 2020, 11:05:00 AM

I'm trying to stick with research as much as I can. We might see something different from Florida, but so far, the trends from warmer areas in the US align with the conclusions drawn from research. I'm hoping that trend continues.

Really??

Louisiana and Florida are among the hardest hit states. And, SoCal is still part of the US the last I heard.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 25, 2020, 11:27:54 AM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 25, 2020, 11:05:00 AM

I'm trying to stick with research as much as I can. We might see something different from Florida, but so far, the trends from warmer areas in the US align with the conclusions drawn from research. I'm hoping that trend continues.

 https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-is-advancing-on-poor-nations-and-the-prognosis-is-troubling-11585149183?mod=e2fb (https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-is-advancing-on-poor-nations-and-the-prognosis-is-troubling-11585149183?mod=e2fb)

There is not research because this is new.  I too hope those theories are right.  The article above has some info about some of the countries of interested. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 25, 2020, 11:31:28 AM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 25, 2020, 11:05:00 AM

I'm trying to stick with research as much as I can. We might see something different from Florida, but so far, the trends from warmer areas in the US align with the conclusions drawn from research. I'm hoping that trend continues.

Right now, there are 11 states with more than 1,000 confirmed cases. Of those 6 are "northern" states, 4 (Florida, Louisiana, Georgia and Texas) are "southern" states, and 1 (California) is large enough to qualify as both. IMHO, that seems like a pretty tenuous basis on which to assume warm weather makes a significant difference. I hope you're right, but either way we will probably have a better sense in a few weeks.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 25, 2020, 11:34:04 AM

Quote from: Jockey on March 25, 2020, 11:21:08 AM

Really??

Louisiana and Florida are among the hardest hit states. And, SoCal is still part of the US the last I heard.

Think about how many people traveled to New Orleans for Mardi Gras a few weeks ago. That's an exception to the general trend. Florida is similar with high travel in winter months, plus they have an older population when compared with the rest of the US. Looking at broad trends, warmer areas in the US and globally have been much, much less affected.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 25, 2020, 11:40:13 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 25, 2020, 11:31:28 AM

Right now, there are 11 states with more than 1,000 confirmed cases. Of those 6 are "northern" states, 4 (Florida, Louisiana, Georgia and Texas) are "southern" states, and 1 (California) is large enough to qualify as both. IMHO, that seems like a pretty tenuous basis on which to assume warm weather makes a significant difference. I hope you're right, but either way we will probably have a better sense in a few weeks.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Infection rates or positive test rates seem like a better metric than just numbers. If Florida has processed 3x the average number of tests compared to the rest of the country, it makes sense that their case number would be higher.

I may be wrong on this, but again, the existing research is supportive of the idea that weather is expected to limit the spread. Even southern US states may not be humid enough right now to slow the spread as much as might be expected in a few months or in areas like the Phillipines that are currently hotter and more humid.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 25, 2020, 11:44:26 AM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 25, 2020, 11:34:04 AM

Think about how many people traveled to New Orleans for Mardi Gras a few weeks ago. That's an exception to the general trend. Florida is similar with high travel in winter months, plus they have an older population when compared with the rest of the US. Looking at broad trends, warmer areas in the US and globally have been much, much less affected.

I don't quite get why an older population in Florida matters. Aren't we talking infection rate rather than results of the infection?

Also, why does Mardi Gras matter? Wouldn't the warmer weather (under your argument) have worked to reduce the amount of infection?

As far as broader trends, we just don't know. There are not nearly as many business travelers to China from these 3rd world countries, so they are way behind us and Europe right now. We have yet so see what the rates will be once this takes hold in warmer climates.

I hope you are right, but we really don't have the evidence yet that we need to declare that warmer climates are safer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 25, 2020, 11:51:18 AM

Historically, flu viruses do fade with the arrival or warmer weather.
That said, given that this is a new virus, no one really knows whether that will be the case with COVID-19. Anything else is educated guesswork at this point.
Here's a good read on the subject:

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-17/with-the-start-of-spring-on-thursday-will-the-stronger-sun-chase-away-the-coronavirus

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 25, 2020, 12:07:46 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 25, 2020, 11:44:26 AM

I don't quite get why an older population in Florida matters. Aren't we talking infection rate rather than results of the infection?

Also, why does Mardi Gras matter? Wouldn't the warmer weather (under your argument) have worked to reduce the amount of infection?

As far as broader trends, we just don't know. There are not nearly as many business travelers to China from these 3rd world countries, so they are way behind us and Europe right now. We have yet so see what the rates will be once this takes hold in warmer climates.

I hope you are right, but we really don't have the evidence yet that we need to declare that warmer climates are safer.

We'll never know the actual infection rate. I think we can agree on that. Many people are likely going to be infected with minimal or mild symptoms, and those people are less likely to get tested using US guidelines. Older people who are more impacted are more likely to get tested. So the older population is more likely to drive up confirmed cases. That's my logic, anyway.

And Mardi Gras matters because the population in New Orleans increased dramatically. So even if NO has a lower infection rate due to weather, there's still a strong likelihood that the number of cases would spike given the population surge. All the people who are permanent residents were probably exposed to far more infected people than they would have without Mardi Gras.

Time will tell, but to me, the weather theory and related research make a lot of sense.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on March 25, 2020, 12:13:54 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 25, 2020, 11:44:26 AM

I don't quite get why an older population in Florida matters. Aren't we talking infection rate rather than results of the infection?

Also, why does Mardi Gras matter? Wouldn't the warmer weather (under your argument) have worked to reduce the amount of infection?

As far as broader trends, we just don't know. There are not nearly as many business travelers to China from these 3rd world countries, so they are way behind us and Europe right now. We have yet so see what the rates will be once this takes hold in warmer climates.

I hope you are right, but we really don't have the evidence yet that we need to declare that warmer climates are safer.

My thought is it’s more likely for an elderly person to be sick enough to get tested. Since the virus impacts them more, it would result in more positive tests because they’d be more likely to be tested.

I thought I saw somewhere the virus doesn’t die in warmer temperature, but may spread slower due to air temperature. Which some of that would be nullified with the density of people for Mardi Grad. Much of why we can’t totally look at India as proof weather doesn’t matter since that is so densely populated.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 25, 2020, 12:20:08 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 23, 2020, 08:20:01 PM

What the actual f?

@ndrew_lawrence: Tx Lt Gov Dan Patrick says grandparents would be willing to die to save the economy for their grandchildren https://twitter.com/ndrew_lawrence/status/1242245135129346050/video/1

Fox News is doing its best to mainstream this line of thought.  Congrats Fox viewers!

"Fox News’ Brit Hume defended comments from Texas lieutenant governor Dan Patrick Tuesday night, saying it is “entirely reasonable” that elderly Americans could be fine with dying amid the coronavirus outbreak to save the U.S. economy."
https://www.thenewscommenter.com/news/brit-hume-defends-dan-patrick-comments-about-coronavirus-entirely-reasonable-viewpoint/1290851

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Johnny B on March 25, 2020, 12:42:41 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 25, 2020, 12:20:08 PM

Fox News is doing its best to mainstream this line of thought.  Congrats Fox viewers!

"Fox News’ Brit Hume defended comments from Texas lieutenant governor Dan Patrick Tuesday night, saying it is “entirely reasonable” that elderly Americans could be fine with dying amid the coronavirus outbreak to save the U.S. economy."
https://www.thenewscommenter.com/news/brit-hume-defends-dan-patrick-comments-about-coronavirus-entirely-reasonable-viewpoint/1290851

This is just sick. Just had a nice conversation with mu 89 year old granny. Shes in house lockdown. Shes not interested in suffering and dying to potentially get the economy going again.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 25, 2020, 12:42:49 PM

Anything for the sake of the invisible hand.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 25, 2020, 12:54:15 PM

Everyone saw this story I assume?

---

Official: Party at epicenter of Westport coronavirus crisis likely topped 100 people
By Justin Papp Updated 12:15 pm EDT, Wednesday, March 25, 2020

https://www.thehour.com/news/article/Coronavirus-update-Number-of-Westport-party-15154139.php

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 25, 2020, 02:29:35 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 25, 2020, 12:54:15 PM

Everyone saw this story I assume?

---

Official: Party at epicenter of Westport coronavirus crisis likely topped 100 people
By Justin Papp Updated 12:15 pm EDT, Wednesday, March 25, 2020

https://www.thehour.com/news/article/Coronavirus-update-Number-of-Westport-party-15154139.php

Hard to blame partygoers as ther were no restrictions in place at the time and no testing available. So there were no confirmed cases in the town.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 25, 2020, 02:52:03 PM

One of the earlier lockdowns. 

 https://www.wsj.com/articles/infection-rate-slows-in-onetime-epicenter-of-new-yorks-coronavirus-outbreak-11585162134?mod=e2fb (https://www.wsj.com/articles/infection-rate-slows-in-onetime-epicenter-of-new-yorks-coronavirus-outbreak-11585162134?mod=e2fb)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on March 25, 2020, 02:56:46 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 25, 2020, 02:52:03 PM

One of the earlier lockdowns. 

 https://www.wsj.com/articles/infection-rate-slows-in-onetime-epicenter-of-new-yorks-coronavirus-outbreak-11585162134?mod=e2fb (https://www.wsj.com/articles/infection-rate-slows-in-onetime-epicenter-of-new-yorks-coronavirus-outbreak-11585162134?mod=e2fb)

This is important. Trust the Process.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on March 25, 2020, 04:57:24 PM

https://www.foxnews.com/world/world-health-organization-praises-trump-leadership-coronavirus-pandemic

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 25, 2020, 05:16:16 PM

Quote from: muguru on March 25, 2020, 04:57:24 PM

https://www.foxnews.com/world/world-health-organization-praises-trump-leadership-coronavirus-pandemic

That's nice.  What that article left out is the the WHO is pleading with the G20 leaders to help out more.  So of course he's not going to bad-mouth our prez.  He wants $$$ and supplies donated.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/23/coronavirus-pandemic-is-accelerating-as-cases-eclipse-350000-who-says.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Johnny B on March 25, 2020, 05:17:06 PM

Fox "news".

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 25, 2020, 05:17:15 PM

Wow, this is sick. Using a medical briefing to attack our NATO allies.

We need a leader.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on March 25, 2020, 06:08:03 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 25, 2020, 05:17:15 PM

Wow, this is sick. Using a medical briefing to attack our NATO allies.

We need a leader.

^^ ban

#banourmods

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on March 25, 2020, 06:08:17 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 25, 2020, 05:16:16 PM

That's nice.  What that article left out is the the WHO is pleading with the G20 leaders to help out more.  So of course he's not going to bad-mouth our prez.  He wants $$$ and supplies donated.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/23/coronavirus-pandemic-is-accelerating-as-cases-eclipse-350000-who-says.html

Your using cnbc as a news source?? Really?? That's a perfect example of why so many people in this country are uninformed..the news sources they use.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 25, 2020, 06:10:58 PM

Quote from: muguru on March 25, 2020, 06:08:17 PM

Your using cnbc as a news source?? Really?? That's a perfect example of why so many people in this country are uninformed..the news sources they use.

Does anyone want to tell him?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Johnny B on March 25, 2020, 06:18:06 PM

Quote from: muguru on March 25, 2020, 06:08:17 PM

Your using cnbc as a news source?? Really?? That's a perfect example of why so many people in this country are uninformed..the news sources they use.

You know less watching fox compared to watching nothing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mr. Nielsen on March 25, 2020, 06:26:14 PM

 ?-(

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 25, 2020, 06:47:20 PM

Quote from: muguru on March 25, 2020, 06:08:17 PM

Your using cnbc as a news source?? Really?? That's a perfect example of why so many people in this country are uninformed..the news sources they use.

Regardless of the source for topper's link, you do know that WHO is primarily dependent on G20 countries for funding its very existence, correct? That is a fact you can find even on WHO's website, which states that WHO has asked the US for $14.14 Billion for the period 2019-2023. https://www.who.int/about/planning-finance-and-accountability/financing-campaign

Or are you gonna doubt WHO's own online documents?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 25, 2020, 06:52:09 PM

Quote from: muguru on March 25, 2020, 06:08:17 PM

Your using cnbc as a news source?? Really?? That's a perfect example of why so many people in this country are uninformed..the news sources they use.

Sigh.  I use lots of sources.  And CNBC had details that Fox didn't.  Did you even read it?  Sometimes, if you read both sides you get a more complete picture.  Shocker huh?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 25, 2020, 06:57:54 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 25, 2020, 06:52:09 PM

Sigh.  I use lots of sources.  And CNBC had details that Fox didn't.  Did you even read it?  Sometimes, if you read both sides you get a more complete picture.  Shocker huh?

I’ve honestly never heard a complaint about CNBC.  Aren’t they primarily financial news? 

MSNBC on the other hand, I’ve heard people voice complaints. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 25, 2020, 06:59:48 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 25, 2020, 06:57:54 PM

I’ve honestly never heard a complaint about CNBC.  Aren’t they primarily financial news? 

MSNBC on the other hand, I’ve heard people voice complaints.

Yes, you are correct.  Although I occasionally get them confused just like Guru did.  Anyhow, back to COVID-19 - the WHO still has it's hands full.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on March 25, 2020, 07:15:58 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 25, 2020, 06:57:54 PM

I’ve honestly never heard a complaint about CNBC.  Aren’t they primarily financial news? 

MSNBC on the other hand, I’ve heard people voice complaints.

I’ve never seen CNBC side eyed for political slant. However, they are sensationalist clowns when it comes to financial news and are far more entertainment than substance in that realm.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 25, 2020, 07:27:13 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 25, 2020, 11:40:13 AM

Infection rates or positive test rates seem like a better metric than just numbers. If Florida has processed 3x the average number of tests compared to the rest of the country, it makes sense that their case number would be higher.

I may be wrong on this, but again, the existing research is supportive of the idea that weather is expected to limit the spread. Even southern US states may not be humid enough right now to slow the spread as much as might be expected in a few months or in areas like the Phillipines that are currently hotter and more humid.

According to Florida's own Dept of Health, Florida has executed 23,723 test to date. Not sure how that compares to other states, but we have tested less than NY has active cases.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 25, 2020, 07:28:49 PM

Quote from: Johnny B on March 25, 2020, 12:42:41 PM

This is just sick. Just had a nice conversation with mu 89 year old granny. Shes in house lockdown. Shes not interested in suffering and dying to potentially get the economy going again.

Strangely enough, one of my conservative Texas co-workers who is a grandparent 10x is not down with sacrificing himself. Inconsiderate, selfish grandpa.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 25, 2020, 07:33:35 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on March 25, 2020, 07:27:13 PM

According to Florida's own Dept of Health, Florida has executed 23,723 test to date. Not sure how that compares to other states, but we have tested less than NY has active cases.

This is a fact that I believe we have access to.  Someone posted a state by state testing aggregation site that I can’t find.  Maybe someone else will remember the link. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 25, 2020, 07:40:25 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 25, 2020, 07:33:35 PM

This is a fact that I believe we have access to.  Someone posted a state by state testing aggregation site that I can’t find.  Maybe someone else will remember the link.

The Atlantic's data is cumbersome because you need to click state by state, but they do list #tested, #pending, #positive, and #deaths.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/03/how-many-people-tested-sick-coronavirus-covid-each-state-america/608413/

And this link doesn't have testing numbers as far as I can tell, but it provides a nice country by country and state by state breakdown of confirmed cases and deaths.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 25, 2020, 07:43:44 PM

Here is the data set I was thinking of.

 https://covidtracking.com/data/ (https://covidtracking.com/data/)

Fact check would say the FL testing isn’t widespread.  Frankly I’m still disappointed it’s not widespread anywhere.  I’d love to hear that our compatriots in smaller cities have widespread testing and contract tracing.

I’ve accepted the fact that the NE corridor will be a free for all for quite some time. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 25, 2020, 08:15:02 PM

Quote from: muguru on March 25, 2020, 06:08:17 PM

Your using cnbc as a news source?? Really?? That's a perfect example of why so many people in this country are uninformed..the news sources they use.

Says the guy who only posts fox news links.  You make my head hurt.  And now CNBC is political.  Unreal.

So guru, you down with Fox's talking point that it is perfectly valid for older people to sacrifice themselves for the economy?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 25, 2020, 08:17:13 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 25, 2020, 07:33:35 PM

This is a fact that I believe we have access to.  Someone posted a state by state testing aggregation site that I can’t find.  Maybe someone else will remember the link.

From Florida Department of Health, the site they link to. Many states have something similar.  Link posted above has this listed as best available data for Florida.
https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/96dd742462124fa0b38ddedb9b25e429

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 25, 2020, 08:18:07 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 25, 2020, 10:41:05 AM

The current data does support the theory, though. What we're seeing in India right now seems to be very much a precautionary move, not a response to a surge in cases. And South American is similar. I know Ecuador has seen an increase, but as we look at all the data globally, South America represents a disproportionately small percentage of cases. And yes, of course, testing plays some role in this, but everyone's testing is limited. Everyone is under-reporting. To what extent, we'll probably never know. Unless you've seen something different for these areas, I think they're actually good examples to support the theory that warmer, more humid weather can/will slow this thing down.

Even looking at the US, the northern states are more heavily impacted than southern states. Seattle has been hit much harder than LA. New York has been hit much harder than Atlanta. All 4 cities have a ton of international flights and would probably be the most likely cities for carriers of the virus to be arriving. That seems to line up with the weather-related research.

Support of seasonal but not overly reassuring. 

 https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/489582-fauci-says-us-needs-to-be-prepared-for-coronavirus-to-be-cyclical (https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/489582-fauci-says-us-needs-to-be-prepared-for-coronavirus-to-be-cyclical)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 25, 2020, 08:19:30 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 25, 2020, 08:18:07 PM

Support of seasonal but not overly reassuring. 

 https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/489582-fauci-says-us-needs-to-be-prepared-for-coronavirus-to-be-cyclical (https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/489582-fauci-says-us-needs-to-be-prepared-for-coronavirus-to-be-cyclical)

OMG, you posted an article from thehill.com.

Dont you know about the hill?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on March 25, 2020, 08:28:01 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 25, 2020, 08:19:30 PM

OMG, you posted an article from thehill.com.

Dont you know about the hill?

PornHub is the only reliable news source.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 25, 2020, 08:28:53 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 25, 2020, 08:19:30 PM

OMG, you posted an article from thehill.com.

Dont you know about the hill?

What’s wrong with them.  They are a pretty open Platform that allows everyone to contribute regardless of political persuasion. I’m honestly interested because I’ve found it to just be a mouthpiece to what’s been said or attributed to who said it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 25, 2020, 08:52:09 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 25, 2020, 08:28:53 PM

What’s wrong with them.  They are a pretty open Platform that allows everyone to contribute regardless of political persuasion. I’m honestly interested because I’ve found it to just be a mouthpiece to what’s been said or attributed to who said it.

Didnt think teal was needed, kin.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 25, 2020, 08:53:43 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 25, 2020, 08:52:09 PM

Didnt think teal was needed, kin.

My bad

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 25, 2020, 09:02:12 PM

Quote from: Retire0 on March 25, 2020, 08:28:01 PM

PornHub is the only reliable news source.

And the Onion.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 25, 2020, 09:08:47 PM

Some larger cities are releasing prisoners To prevent the spread of the virus while closing gun stores to law abiding citizens

That’s kinda weird

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 25, 2020, 09:35:59 PM

I think the scariest number in the US is this:

Recovered: 394
Dead: 1027

That means only 28% of resolved cases resulted in survival. Worldwide 16% of all resolved cases resulted in death.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on March 25, 2020, 09:38:02 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 25, 2020, 09:35:59 PM

I think the scariest number in the US is this:

Recovered: 394
Dead: 1027

That means only 28% of resolved cases resulted in survival. Worldwide 16% of all resolved cases resulted in death.

Holy crap, get a handle on knowledge of data...

What bizarre claim.

Prayers for you.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on March 25, 2020, 09:59:26 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 25, 2020, 08:15:02 PM

Says the guy who only posts fox news links.  You make my head hurt.  And now CNBC is political.  Unreal.

So guru, you down with Fox's talking point that it is perfectly valid for older people to sacrifice themselves for the economy?

This isn't directed solely at you Tony because it's many many many people nationwide that have been hsouting "people are dying" from the rooftops. To hear some of them talk, it's like they expected NO ONE to die from this...like ZERO. That was absolutely impossible, and completely unrealistic. Is it sad?? Of course it is, but it's also a reality. People die, all of us. Reasons we die are various, but it WILL happen to everyone eventually. What really bothers me the most is people are lamenting the number of deaths like they are 100% preventable...sadly, they aren't. How come people aren't outraged and blaming leadership when the many many thousands of people a year die from the flu, or any other number of reasons?? Under those circumstances, it seems people just "accept" it that it happens. Tragic and sad, but that it does happen.

Now as far as older people sacrificing for the economy..I'm not necessarily saying they should...but again, the reality is, older people are going to die, right?? Let's say Grandma is 90, her health has been failing for awhile...now sadly she gets Covid-19 and passes away from it. Realistically, how much longer was she going to live, and what was her quality of life going to be?? Death is inevitable. But for some reason people are acting like it shouldn't be during this pandemic. I really don't get it. Meanwhile, thousands of people are dying everyday from reasons completely unrelated to this, and of course it's still sad either way, but if they die from Covid-19 now all of a sudden it's leaderships fault and someone "murdered" them. But if it's from the flu...it's just a tragic, sad thing but acceptance that it happens to everyone. I don't get it. Well I do, but I don't actually want to believe people are like that. But they are.

I mean...last i saw there has been less than 1,000 deaths in the US. Percentage wise, that is incredibly low..like minuscule. yet people are acting like the entire population is dying off from this. It's all about agenda's, that's all it really is.

Ask yourself this...have you ever known any parents or grandparents that at some point haven't said that they have wanted a better future for their kids or grand kids?? I can tell you this(and maybe it's just me) but if I'm in my late 70's or early 80's+ and I had to die from Covid-19 or any other reason to ensure that my kids and grand kids have a better future in every way(and yes, financial is a HUGE factor in lifestyle, good life etc), you're damn right I'm going to do it. At that point, I've lived most of my life, i'm closer to death than I am to just being born..it's not far away and I know I can't stop it...when it's my time, it's my time. of course I'd make that sacrifice.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 25, 2020, 10:05:06 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on March 25, 2020, 09:38:02 PM

Holy crap, get a handle on knowledge of data...

What bizarre claim.

Prayers for you.

I fully understand data analysis, statistics, and the ilk. Those are the actual numbers right now. There are good reasons, why they are inflated to the "scary" side, and I am well aware of most of them (we can't possibly know all of them). Even taking all of that into consideration, it tells you how scary this can is, and how different this is from the "flu".

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 25, 2020, 10:13:02 PM

Quote from: muguru on March 25, 2020, 09:59:26 PM

To hear some of them talk, it's like they expected NO ONE to die from this...like ZERO.

“And again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done." -- Mr. X, Feb. 26, 2020.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on March 25, 2020, 10:36:54 PM

Quote from: muguru on March 25, 2020, 09:59:26 PM

This isn't directed solely at you Tony because it's many many many people nationwide that have been hsouting "people are dying" from the rooftops. To hear some of them talk, it's like they expected NO ONE to die from this...like ZERO. That was absolutely impossible, and completely unrealistic. Is it sad?? Of course it is, but it's also a reality. People die, all of us. Reasons we die are various, but it WILL happen to everyone eventually. What really bothers me the most is people are lamenting the number of deaths like they are 100% preventable...sadly, they aren't. How come people aren't outraged and blaming leadership when the many many thousands of people a year die from the flu, or any other number of reasons?? Under those circumstances, it seems people just "accept" it that it happens. Tragic and sad, but that it does happen.

Now as far as older people sacrificing for the economy..I'm not necessarily saying they should...but again, the reality is, older people are going to die, right?? Let's say Grandma is 90, her health has been failing for awhile...now sadly she gets Covid-19 and passes away from it. Realistically, how much longer was she going to live, and what was her quality of life going to be?? Death is inevitable. But for some reason people are acting like it shouldn't be during this pandemic. I really don't get it. Meanwhile, thousands of people are dying everyday from reasons completely unrelated to this, and of course it's still sad either way, but if they die from Covid-19 now all of a sudden it's leaderships fault and someone "murdered" them. But if it's from the flu...it's just a tragic, sad thing but acceptance that it happens to everyone. I don't get it. Well I do, but I don't actually want to believe people are like that. But they are.

I mean...last i saw there has been less than 1,000 deaths in the US. Percentage wise, that is incredibly low..like minuscule. yet people are acting like the entire population is dying off from this. It's all about agenda's, that's all it really is.

Ask yourself this...have you ever known any parents or grandparents that at some point haven't said that they have wanted a better future for their kids or grand kids?? I can tell you this(and maybe it's just me) but if I'm in my late 70's or early 80's+ and I had to die from Covid-19 or any other reason to ensure that my kids and grand kids have a better future in every way(and yes, financial is a HUGE factor in lifestyle, good life etc), you're damn right I'm going to do it. At that point, I've lived most of my life, i'm closer to death than I am to just being born..it's not far away and I know I can't stop it...when it's my time, it's my time. of course I'd make that sacrifice.

(https://media2.giphy.com/media/XH9tzHRGQmLSFGP6E8/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a5feb68013e8a91a6cbc9ad047828c613dd872506&rid=giphy.gif)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 25, 2020, 11:07:22 PM

Quote from: cheebs09 on March 25, 2020, 10:36:54 PM

(https://media2.giphy.com/media/XH9tzHRGQmLSFGP6E8/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a5feb68013e8a91a6cbc9ad047828c613dd872506&rid=giphy.gif)

+1

I will let this tweet summarize my thoughts:

https://twitter.com/PamKeithFL/status/1242647571711119361?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 25, 2020, 11:23:35 PM

"Trump team failed to follow NSC's pandemic playbook." -Politico

"The 69 page document, finished in 2016, provided a step by step list of priorities which were then ignored by the administration."


https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/25/trump-coronavirus-national-security-council-149285

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 25, 2020, 11:24:57 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 25, 2020, 11:23:35 PM

"Trump team failed to follow NSC's pandemic playbook." -Politico

"The 69 page document, finished in 2016, provided a step by step list of priorities which were then ignored by the administration."


https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/25/trump-coronavirus-national-security-council-149285

Color me shocked.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 25, 2020, 11:45:48 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 25, 2020, 11:23:35 PM

"Trump team failed to follow NSC's pandemic playbook." -Politico

"The 69 page document, finished in 2016, provided a step by step list of priorities which were then ignored by the administration."


https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/25/trump-coronavirus-national-security-council-149285

Maybe they ignored the 2016 document because there was a more recent document? Did you read the whole article?

"An NSC official confirmed the existence of the playbook but dismissed its value. “We are aware of the document, although it’s quite dated and has been superseded by strategic and operational biodefense policies published since,” the official said."

Now, it's possible that the 2016 plan was better and the newer plan has led to the slow federal response. But the headline and the quote posted are pretty misleading.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 26, 2020, 12:04:38 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 25, 2020, 11:07:22 PM

+1

I will let this tweet summarize my thoughts:

https://twitter.com/PamKeithFL/status/1242647571711119361?s=19

Guru is a pretty sick puppy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 26, 2020, 05:16:29 AM

Quote from: muguru on March 25, 2020, 09:59:26 PM

This isn't directed solely at you Tony because it's many many many people nationwide that have been hsouting "people are dying" from the rooftops. To hear some of them talk, it's like they expected NO ONE to die from this...like ZERO. That was absolutely impossible, and completely unrealistic. Is it sad?? Of course it is, but it's also a reality. People die, all of us. Reasons we die are various, but it WILL happen to everyone eventually. What really bothers me the most is people are lamenting the number of deaths like they are 100% preventable...sadly, they aren't. How come people aren't outraged and blaming leadership when the many many thousands of people a year die from the flu, or any other number of reasons?? Under those circumstances, it seems people just "accept" it that it happens. Tragic and sad, but that it does happen.

Now as far as older people sacrificing for the economy..I'm not necessarily saying they should...but again, the reality is, older people are going to die, right?? Let's say Grandma is 90, her health has been failing for awhile...now sadly she gets Covid-19 and passes away from it. Realistically, how much longer was she going to live, and what was her quality of life going to be?? Death is inevitable. But for some reason people are acting like it shouldn't be during this pandemic. I really don't get it. Meanwhile, thousands of people are dying everyday from reasons completely unrelated to this, and of course it's still sad either way, but if they die from Covid-19 now all of a sudden it's leaderships fault and someone "murdered" them. But if it's from the flu...it's just a tragic, sad thing but acceptance that it happens to everyone. I don't get it. Well I do, but I don't actually want to believe people are like that. But they are.

I mean...last i saw there has been less than 1,000 deaths in the US. Percentage wise, that is incredibly low..like minuscule. yet people are acting like the entire population is dying off from this. It's all about agenda's, that's all it really is.

Ask yourself this...have you ever known any parents or grandparents that at some point haven't said that they have wanted a better future for their kids or grand kids?? I can tell you this(and maybe it's just me) but if I'm in my late 70's or early 80's+ and I had to die from Covid-19 or any other reason to ensure that my kids and grand kids have a better future in every way(and yes, financial is a HUGE factor in lifestyle, good life etc), you're damn right I'm going to do it. At that point, I've lived most of my life, i'm closer to death than I am to just being born..it's not far away and I know I can't stop it...when it's my time, it's my time. of course I'd make that sacrifice.

Ah.

So you're one of those who won't think this is a big deal until millions are dead.

But at the same time the steps being taken are to prevent exactly those types of numbers. So that when millions don't die, you'll think it was all an overreaction

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on March 26, 2020, 06:06:57 AM

Quote from: muguru on March 25, 2020, 09:59:26 PM

This isn't directed solely at you Tony because it's many many many people nationwide that have been hsouting "people are dying" from the rooftops. To hear some of them talk, it's like they expected NO ONE to die from this...like ZERO. That was absolutely impossible, and completely unrealistic. Is it sad?? Of course it is, but it's also a reality. People die, all of us. Reasons we die are various, but it WILL happen to everyone eventually. What really bothers me the most is people are lamenting the number of deaths like they are 100% preventable...sadly, they aren't. How come people aren't outraged and blaming leadership when the many many thousands of people a year die from the flu, or any other number of reasons?? Under those circumstances, it seems people just "accept" it that it happens. Tragic and sad, but that it does happen.

Now as far as older people sacrificing for the economy..I'm not necessarily saying they should...but again, the reality is, older people are going to die, right?? Let's say Grandma is 90, her health has been failing for awhile...now sadly she gets Covid-19 and passes away from it. Realistically, how much longer was she going to live, and what was her quality of life going to be?? Death is inevitable. But for some reason people are acting like it shouldn't be during this pandemic. I really don't get it. Meanwhile, thousands of people are dying everyday from reasons completely unrelated to this, and of course it's still sad either way, but if they die from Covid-19 now all of a sudden it's leaderships fault and someone "murdered" them. But if it's from the flu...it's just a tragic, sad thing but acceptance that it happens to everyone. I don't get it. Well I do, but I don't actually want to believe people are like that. But they are.

I mean...last i saw there has been less than 1,000 deaths in the US. Percentage wise, that is incredibly low..like minuscule. yet people are acting like the entire population is dying off from this. It's all about agenda's, that's all it really is.

Ask yourself this...have you ever known any parents or grandparents that at some point haven't said that they have wanted a better future for their kids or grand kids?? I can tell you this(and maybe it's just me) but if I'm in my late 70's or early 80's+ and I had to die from Covid-19 or any other reason to ensure that my kids and grand kids have a better future in every way(and yes, financial is a HUGE factor in lifestyle, good life etc), you're damn right I'm going to do it. At that point, I've lived most of my life, i'm closer to death than I am to just being born..it's not far away and I know I can't stop it...when it's my time, it's my time. of course I'd make that sacrifice.

Please continue to go about your normal day then, this virus is an agenda, you have nothing to fear.

Lick all the doorknobs.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 26, 2020, 06:31:50 AM

Interesting article about China/Wuhan today.  I honestly don’t know how you can not spread if asymptomatic cases aren’t counted. 

 https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/china-wuhan-coronavirus-zero-cases/2020/03/25/19bdbbc2-6d15-11ea-a156-0048b62cdb51_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/china-wuhan-coronavirus-zero-cases/2020/03/25/19bdbbc2-6d15-11ea-a156-0048b62cdb51_story.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on March 26, 2020, 07:07:29 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 26, 2020, 05:16:29 AM

Ah.

So you're one of those who won't think this is a big deal until millions are dead.

But at the same time the steps being taken are to prevent exactly those types of numbers. So that when millions don't die, you'll think it was all an overreaction

Milions?? In the US?? Highly doubtful when we are only at 1000ish right now. I mean, honestly, do you think you're going to live forever?? Did you think no one was going to die from this?? Do you think people aren't going to die from cancer, or the flu, or suicide, or natural causes?? The fact that people all of a sudden seem to think that baffles me.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 26, 2020, 07:29:32 AM

Quote from: muguru on March 26, 2020, 07:07:29 AM

Milions?? In the US?? Highly doubtful when we are only at 1000ish right now. I mean, honestly, do you think you're going to live forever?? Did you think no one was going to die from this?? Do you think people aren't going to die from cancer, or the flu, or suicide, or natural causes?? The fact that people all of a sudden seem to think that baffles me.

Of course it baffles you.  You're simple.  Under your logic, we shouldn't bother spending money or do anything to prevent those diseases. 

So what you don't understand is that the 1000 people that are dead in the US were sick for the last two weeks.  So there is a big lead time on this virus.  People who are getting sick TODAY are going to be the ones laying in bed in a week or so, and some will die.  And when all of those hospital beds are full, even more will die.  Go look at the graphs of number of sick, and then figure out how many beds and ventilators we have in the US available in total(its about 100k).

If you want to preach about how some old people will die, understand that you're probably one of the old people at this point.  I don't know your age, but I'm going to guess you're at least over 50... and I'd wager closer to 60.  If you think this isn't a big deal, please go to your nearest hospital and ask to volunteer.  You strike me as the type of person that doesn't believe something until they experience it first hand.  So I encourage you to step up, and watch the old people die, and put yourself on the front lines.  Just like you're' asking others to do, and since it isn't such a big deal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on March 26, 2020, 07:33:16 AM

Quote from: forgetful on March 25, 2020, 09:35:59 PM

I think the scariest number in the US is this:

Recovered: 394
Dead: 1027

That means only 28% of resolved cases resulted in survival. Worldwide 16% of all resolved cases resulted in death.

Pretty sure it takes longer for someone to be declared "resolved" than it does to be declared "dead".

Bet you $1 that this ratio will be more favorable a month from now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Johnny B on March 26, 2020, 07:44:58 AM

Quote from: warriorchick on March 26, 2020, 07:33:16 AM

Pretty sure it takes longer for someone to be declared "resolved" than it does to be declared "dead".

Bet you $1 that this ratio will be more favorable a month from now.

Also countless people will never even realize they had it or wont get tested

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 26, 2020, 07:52:26 AM

Quote from: warriorchick on March 26, 2020, 07:33:16 AM

Pretty sure it takes longer for someone to be declared "resolved" than it does to be declared "dead".

Bet you $1 that this ratio will be more favorable a month from now.

As long as we dont completely overwhelm the HC system it will definitely be closer to 50/50 or better on critical cases and much better overall.  It's stunning that the 'first' ICU patient in Italy just got out of the hospital last week.  Cycle time on recovery is so much longer than cycle time on getting someone to critical status from contraction. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 26, 2020, 07:55:49 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 26, 2020, 07:52:26 AM

As long as we dont completely overwhelm the HC system it will definitely be closer to 50/50 or better on critical cases and much better overall.  It's stunning that the 'first' ICU patient in Italy just got out of the hospital last week.  Cycle time on recovery is so much longer than cycle time on getting someone to critical status from contraction.

Plus I think that our leadership has done a really poor job of communicating this.  You don't go in and come out a day or two later all better.  You come out weeks later, with permanent damage to your lungs.  That is, if you come out.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Johnny B on March 26, 2020, 07:59:43 AM

Quote from: muguru on March 26, 2020, 07:07:29 AM

Milions?? In the US?? Highly doubtful when we are only at 1000ish right now. I mean, honestly, do you think you're going to live forever?? Did you think no one was going to die from this?? Do you think people aren't going to die from cancer, or the flu, or suicide, or natural causes?? The fact that people all of a sudden seem to think that baffles me.

Jerry fallwell jr?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 26, 2020, 08:18:32 AM

An article from 2013 .. nailed it.

https://www.wired.com/2013/10/bats-next-sars-pandemic/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 26, 2020, 08:19:40 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 26, 2020, 05:16:29 AM

Ah.

So you're one of those who won't think this is a big deal until millions are dead.

But at the same time the steps being taken are to prevent exactly those types of numbers. So that when millions don't die, you'll think it was all an overreaction

I am absolutely convinced that this is what will happen. "See?  What was the big deal?  I told you it was all a hoax", completely ignoring that the social distancing and stay-at-home orders are what kept the numbers lower.  Wait for it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 26, 2020, 08:39:18 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 26, 2020, 08:18:32 AM

An article from 2013 .. nailed it.

https://www.wired.com/2013/10/bats-next-sars-pandemic/

So we should have been looking for a vaccine since then

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 26, 2020, 08:41:03 AM

Quote from: injuryBug on March 26, 2020, 08:39:18 AM

So we should have been looking for a vaccine since then

You need a specific virus before you can create a vaccine.  You just can't create a vaccine for all corornaviruses and expect it to be anywhere near effective.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 26, 2020, 08:44:07 AM

Quote from: injuryBug on March 26, 2020, 08:39:18 AM

So we should have been looking for a vaccine since then

Not how that works.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 26, 2020, 08:46:24 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 26, 2020, 08:19:40 AM

I am absolutely convinced that this is what will happen. "See?  What was the big deal?  I told you it was all a hoax", completely ignoring that the social distancing and stay-at-home orders are what kept the numbers lower.  Wait for it.

That was kind of the point Dr. Landon from the University of Chicago made last week. If done right, this should feel like it never was that big of a deal. We all have the opportunity to influence just how big of a deal this becomes. I'm sure many have seen her speech, but for anyone who hasn't, here's a link. The paragraph below sums up this idea pretty well.

"These extreme restrictions may seem, in the end, a little anticlimactic. Because it's really hard to feel like you're saving the world when you're watching Netflix from your couch. But if we do this right, nothing happens. Yeah. A successful shelter in place means that you're going to feel like it was all for nothing. And you'd be right. Because nothing means that nothing happened to your family. And that's what we're going for here."

https://www.uchicagomedicine.org/forefront/coronavirus-disease-covid-19/emily-landon-speaks-about-covid-19-at-illinois-governors-press-conference (https://www.uchicagomedicine.org/forefront/coronavirus-disease-covid-19/emily-landon-speaks-about-covid-19-at-illinois-governors-press-conference)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 26, 2020, 08:47:37 AM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 25, 2020, 11:45:48 PM

Maybe they ignored the 2016 document because there was a more recent document? Did you read the whole article?

"An NSC official confirmed the existence of the playbook but dismissed its value. “We are aware of the document, although it’s quite dated and has been superseded by strategic and operational biodefense policies published since,” the official said."

Now, it's possible that the 2016 plan was better and the newer plan has led to the slow federal response. But the headline and the quote posted are pretty misleading.

I did. I read every link I post. Here is a different piece that goes over the pandemic exercise transition trainings the Obama admin did with Trump’s team. Two things: 1) 66% of Trump’s team is no longer there The high first term turnover doesn’t help. 2) Trump’s team has been said to be disinterested in the topic.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/trump-appointees-trained-pandemic-response-in-2016-2020-3%3famp

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Eldon on March 26, 2020, 09:01:53 AM

(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2020/03/26/USAT/36eb0da1-935d-4c70-a37c-2f7feccc8cdf-0232620-Jobless-Claims1.jpg)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 26, 2020, 09:16:40 AM

Quote from: warriorchick on March 26, 2020, 07:33:16 AM

Pretty sure it takes longer for someone to be declared "resolved" than it does to be declared "dead".

Bet you $1 that this ratio will be more favorable a month from now.

I agree the ratio will be more favorable, in part because of what you say. It takes on average about 28 days to recover, but death occurs on average in 14 days. That is skewing the numbers, but we likely are still looking at a 30-40% death rate amongst resolved cases right now. That will likely also decline as we get more asymptomatic positives by increased testing. But even then the numbers are still scary.

Also, many of the ER docs I know say they have been seeing an increase in the number of pneumonia deaths lately, in people that test negative for flu, respiratory viruses (not COVID-19), and others. But couldn't get tested for COVID. So our death numbers are likely significantly low.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on March 26, 2020, 09:25:10 AM

Quote from: Retire0 on March 25, 2020, 08:28:01 PM

PornHub is the only reliable news source.

free premium access during these tough times

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 26, 2020, 09:50:22 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 26, 2020, 08:47:37 AM

I did. I read every link I post. Here is a different piece that goes over the pandemic exercise transition trainings the Obama admin did with Trump’s team. Two things: 1) 66% of Trump’s team is no longer there The high first term turnover doesn’t help. 2) Trump’s team has been said to be disinterested in the topic.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/trump-appointees-trained-pandemic-response-in-2016-2020-3%3famp

The quote you posted from the last article was directly addressed and explained later in the article. Why ignore that part of it?

As to Trump's team being disinterested, the BI article mentions 2 people who are said to have questioned why they needed to be there. The article says "most of the Trump administration officials paid attention." So were some disinterested? Sure, according to all the anonymous staffers from the prior administration that happens to be very much at odds with the current administration. Does that mean the whole team was disinterested? I'm not sure I'd share the same conclusion. Plus, the claims that people weren't interested were refuted by spokesmen from the current administration.

Overall, I question Business Insider's quality. Too much of their stuff reads like a tabloid. This article in particular fits that model. Some of their stuff is good, but too much of it is click-baity. The Politico article that whole BI article is based off was much better.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/16/trump-inauguration-warning-scenario-pandemic-132797 (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/16/trump-inauguration-warning-scenario-pandemic-132797)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 26, 2020, 10:18:06 AM

Quote from: muguru on March 25, 2020, 09:59:26 PM

This isn't directed solely at you Tony because it's many many many people nationwide that have been hsouting "people are dying" from the rooftops. To hear some of them talk, it's like they expected NO ONE to die from this...like ZERO. That was absolutely impossible, and completely unrealistic. Is it sad?? Of course it is, but it's also a reality. People die, all of us. Reasons we die are various, but it WILL happen to everyone eventually. What really bothers me the most is people are lamenting the number of deaths like they are 100% preventable...sadly, they aren't. How come people aren't outraged and blaming leadership when the many many thousands of people a year die from the flu, or any other number of reasons?? Under those circumstances, it seems people just "accept" it that it happens. Tragic and sad, but that it does happen.

Now as far as older people sacrificing for the economy..I'm not necessarily saying they should...but again, the reality is, older people are going to die, right?? Let's say Grandma is 90, her health has been failing for awhile...now sadly she gets Covid-19 and passes away from it. Realistically, how much longer was she going to live, and what was her quality of life going to be?? Death is inevitable. But for some reason people are acting like it shouldn't be during this pandemic. I really don't get it. Meanwhile, thousands of people are dying everyday from reasons completely unrelated to this, and of course it's still sad either way, but if they die from Covid-19 now all of a sudden it's leaderships fault and someone "murdered" them. But if it's from the flu...it's just a tragic, sad thing but acceptance that it happens to everyone. I don't get it. Well I do, but I don't actually want to believe people are like that. But they are.

I mean...last i saw there has been less than 1,000 deaths in the US. Percentage wise, that is incredibly low..like minuscule. yet people are acting like the entire population is dying off from this. It's all about agenda's, that's all it really is.

Ask yourself this...have you ever known any parents or grandparents that at some point haven't said that they have wanted a better future for their kids or grand kids?? I can tell you this(and maybe it's just me) but if I'm in my late 70's or early 80's+ and I had to die from Covid-19 or any other reason to ensure that my kids and grand kids have a better future in every way(and yes, financial is a HUGE factor in lifestyle, good life etc), you're damn right I'm going to do it. At that point, I've lived most of my life, i'm closer to death than I am to just being born..it's not far away and I know I can't stop it...when it's my time, it's my time. of course I'd make that sacrifice.

Remember that whole "Death Panel" charade? Sounds familiar....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 26, 2020, 10:27:01 AM

A friend of mine just posted this on his blog:

Tell me why companies deserve a bailout when faced with a crisis that is “no fault of their own,” as Treasury secretary Mnuchin said, but when a family suffers a health crisis that is no fault of their own their bankruptcy is met with a shrug by our government.

It's a pretty good question.

As for the soon-to-be-passed legislation ...

It is imperfect, and it also contains pork, as is the case with most of these kinds of things. Given the time constraints and the huge size of the problem, it could have been worse.

Still, 2 trillion bucks does seem like a lot to have to spend given that, just one month ago, somebody was tweeting: “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 26, 2020, 10:29:29 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 26, 2020, 08:44:07 AM

Not how that works.

sorry forgot to use teal

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 26, 2020, 10:40:11 AM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 26, 2020, 09:50:22 AM

The quote you posted from the last article was directly addressed and explained later in the article. Why ignore that part of it?

As to Trump's team being disinterested, the BI article mentions 2 people who are said to have questioned why they needed to be there. The article says "most of the Trump administration officials paid attention." So were some disinterested? Sure, according to all the anonymous staffers from the prior administration that happens to be very much at odds with the current administration. Does that mean the whole team was disinterested? I'm not sure I'd share the same conclusion. Plus, the claims that people weren't interested were refuted by spokesmen from the current administration.

Overall, I question Business Insider's quality. Too much of their stuff reads like a tabloid. This article in particular fits that model. Some of their stuff is good, but too much of it is click-baity. The Politico article that whole BI article is based off was much better.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/16/trump-inauguration-warning-scenario-pandemic-132797 (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/16/trump-inauguration-warning-scenario-pandemic-132797)

I could link articles all day with well sourced specifics as to the lack of preparedness and lack of initial effective response by the current administration. This is a common, widely held belief. If we can’t agree on that, I am not sure what to say.

This is a quote from you one week ago:

“You think we'll see 6 figure deaths globally or in the US? I haven't seen anything that would make me believe 100,000 deaths globally would be within the realm of possibility. And if you're talking about the US.... well, let's just say we'll have to agree to disagree”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 26, 2020, 11:16:06 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 26, 2020, 10:40:11 AM

I could link articles all day with well sourced specifics as to the lack of preparedness and lack of initial effective response by the current administration. This is a common, widely held belief. If we can’t agree on that, I am not sure what to say.

This is a quote from you one week ago:

“You think we'll see 6 figure deaths globally or in the US? I haven't seen anything that would make me believe 100,000 deaths globally would be within the realm of possibility. And if you're talking about the US.... well, let's just say we'll have to agree to disagree”

I would agree that the federal response hasn't been very good. But it's not like we're alone here. Only a handful of countries were well-prepared and executed solid responses. The comments and stories on the response get to a point where it's just political, though, and that's what I try to avoid. So when there are articles shared with half-truths or misleading headlines, I think it's worth calling out.

While I don't see how my post you quoted ties into this current thread of conversation, I still think it's pretty accurate. I still don't think we'll see 100K deaths globally, and we definitely won't see that in the US. The measures the US and the rest of the world are taking seem to be working. I'm encouraged by that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Johnny B on March 26, 2020, 11:27:24 AM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 26, 2020, 11:16:06 AM

I would agree that the federal response hasn't been very good. But it's not like we're alone here. Only a handful of countries were well-prepared and executed solid responses. The comments and stories on the response get to a point where it's just political, though, and that's what I try to avoid. So when there are articles shared with half-truths or misleading headlines, I think it's worth calling out.

While I don't see how my post you quoted ties into this current thread of conversation, I still think it's pretty accurate. I still don't think we'll see 100K deaths globally, and we definitely won't see that in the US. The measures the US and the rest of the world are taking seem to be working. I'm encouraged by that.

Zero chance we dont see 100k globally. If we dont itll be because of non reporting.
Almost zero chance we dont see 100k here as well. Hate to say it.
Usa restrictions are pretty mild compared to other countries. Half the states arent really doing anything. Not even close to a national lock down like others so i would not compare us to other places. Cases and deaths will skyrocket sadly. And apparently were gonna have packed churches and reopen things by easter. Idek what to say. Chaos awaits. Were all standing on the beach watching the tidal wave approach

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 26, 2020, 11:33:52 AM

 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/26/world/asia/japan-coronavirus.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/26/world/asia/japan-coronavirus.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur)

Sounds like Japan may not be as good as hoped. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 26, 2020, 11:40:39 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 26, 2020, 11:33:52 AM

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/26/world/asia/japan-coronavirus.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/26/world/asia/japan-coronavirus.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur)

Sounds like Japan may not be as good as hoped.

This month, we were supposed to have a follow-up quality audit from our Japanese corporate that was indefinitely postponed. 

It broke everyone's heart here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 26, 2020, 11:57:22 AM

Quote from: Johnny B on March 26, 2020, 11:27:24 AM

Zero chance we dont see 100k globally. If we dont itll be because of non reporting.
Almost zero chance we dont see 100k here as well. Hate to say it.
Usa restrictions are pretty mild compared to other countries. Half the states arent really doing anything. Not even close to a national lock down like others so i would not compare us to other places. Cases and deaths will skyrocket sadly. And apparently were gonna have packed churches and reopen things by easter. Idek what to say. Chaos awaits. Were all standing on the beach watching the tidal wave approach

Well, we obviously don't see eye to eye.

Globally, the US on the back end of this. It started in Asia, worked its way through Europe and is now in the US. Asia is on the downtrend, Europe seems to be past the peak, and we're still on the upswing. To date, we've seen 22K deaths globally. I don't think we see a 5x increase from here on out. That's my logic.

For the US, the Imperial College study said localized responses can be as effective as national responses. We've been hardest hit on the coasts, so their measures may look different than measures taken in other areas. Dense cities obviously have different concerns than sparsely populated rural areas. Not having a one-size-fits all approach can still be effective.

And we all know that even if Trump says today that he wants everything back open by Easter, that's far from a guarantee that everything will be back open by Easter. Wanting something and making it happen are two very different things.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 26, 2020, 11:58:31 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 26, 2020, 11:33:52 AM

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/26/world/asia/japan-coronavirus.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/26/world/asia/japan-coronavirus.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur)

Sounds like Japan may not be as good as hoped. 

A lot of suggestion that the government there was intentionally slow rolling this for the sake of the Olympics.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Johnny B on March 26, 2020, 12:06:10 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 26, 2020, 11:57:22 AM

Well, we obviously don't see eye to eye.

Globally, the US on the back end of this. It started in Asia, worked its way through Europe and is now in the US. Asia is on the downtrend, Europe seems to be past the peak, and we're still on the upswing. To date, we've seen 22K deaths globally. I don't think we see a 5x increase from here on out. That's my logic.

For the US, the Imperial College study said localized responses can be as effective as national responses. We've been hardest hit on the coasts, so their measures may look different than measures taken in other areas. Dense cities obviously have different concerns than sparsely populated rural areas. Not having a one-size-fits all approach can still be effective.

And we all know that even if Trump says today that he wants everything back open by Easter, that's far from a guarantee that everything will be back open by Easter. Wanting something and making it happen are two very different things.

Hmm well i havent seen any projections that seem to indicate that but id be thrilled to be wrong in this situation

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 26, 2020, 12:11:21 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 26, 2020, 11:57:22 AM

Well, we obviously don't see eye to eye.

Globally, the US on the back end of this. It started in Asia, worked its way through Europe and is now in the US. Asia is on the downtrend, Europe seems to be past the peak, and we're still on the upswing.

FWIW, most of Europe does not seem to be past its peak.
The curve as of yesterday:

(https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/21112.jpeg)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 26, 2020, 12:29:49 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 26, 2020, 12:11:21 PM

FWIW, most of Europe does not seem to be past its peak.
The curve as of yesterday:

(https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/21112.jpeg)

I swear I saw something a little different earlier this week. I think it was showing daily cases or deaths and it was plateauing in the last few days. Maybe it was dated. Based on what you shared, I think you're probably right.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 26, 2020, 12:43:18 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 26, 2020, 12:29:49 PM

I swear I saw something a little different earlier this week. I think it was showing daily cases or deaths and it was plateauing in the last few days. Maybe it was dated. Based on what you shared, I think you're probably right.

Honestly, the US is not on the back end of this.  We are behind a few places in Europe.  You want to talk back end, lets talk about South America and Africa.

Things are only on the upswing across the world save a few countries like South Korea, China... and God willing, Italy.

Spain is a nightmare, Germany and France are on their way up as well... and the UK hasn't been testing enough.

You can look at a country like Switzerland and know that they are testing their asses off.  Once testing picks up, we will know what we are dealing with.

Known worldwide deaths will be probably surpass a million easily.  Of course this doesn't take into account the people that were not and will never be counted as covid19 postitive deaths

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 26, 2020, 12:46:55 PM

It's going to get worse.

New Rochelle went into lockdown two weeks ago and NYC still is seeing its numbers go up.  The irresponsible spring breakers and the people who didn't close the beaches while they could are going to see the results of their decisions come to fruition in the next 7-10 days.

Anyone who thinks we are going to be able to start things back up again by Easter is kidding themselves.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 26, 2020, 12:54:04 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 26, 2020, 12:46:55 PM

Anyone who thinks we are going to be able to start things back up again by Easter is kidding themselves.

Yep. The guarantee of having things up and running by Easter is about as likely to happen as the US building a wall and getting Mexico to pay for it.

At least he's consistent.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 26, 2020, 12:59:40 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 26, 2020, 12:43:18 PM

Honestly, the US is not on the back end of this.  We are behind a few places in Europe.  You want to talk back end, lets talk about South America and Africa.

Things are only on the upswing across the world save a few countries like South Korea, China... and God willing, Italy.

Spain is a nightmare, Germany and France are on their way up as well... and the UK hasn't been testing enough.

You can look at a country like Switzerland and know that they are testing their asses off.  Once testing picks up, we will know what we are dealing with.

Known worldwide deaths will be probably surpass a million easily.  Of course this doesn't take into account the people that were not and will never be counted as covid19 postitive deaths

Research suggests South America and Africa may not be hit as hard as northern areas due to their climates. Don't you find it at all curious that something like 90% of cases are all in the northern hemisphere? I think that shows a low likelihood that those areas will have severe outbreaks. That makes me think the US is one of the last areas to get hit.

As for total numbers, I have a really hard time seeing the leap from 20,000 to a million. The world is taking this seriously and putting in pre-emptive measures. Some areas are still going to see awful scenarios like Italy. But if Italy is what we consider awful, then getting to a million deaths seems highly unlikely.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 26, 2020, 01:01:38 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 26, 2020, 12:59:40 PM

Research suggests South America and Africa may not be hit as hard as northern areas due to their climates. Don't you find it at all curious that something like 90% of cases are all in the northern hemisphere? I think that shows a low likelihood that those areas will have severe outbreaks. That makes me think the US is one of the last areas to get hit.

As for total numbers, I have a really hard time seeing the leap from 20,000 to a million. The world is taking this seriously and putting in pre-emptive measures. Some areas are still going to see awful scenarios like Italy. But if Italy is what we consider awful, then getting to a million deaths seems highly unlikely.

The Southern Hemisphere was in late summer when this started. Now it's well into fall. And then comes winter....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 26, 2020, 01:02:32 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 26, 2020, 12:54:04 PM

Yep. The guarantee of having things up and running by Easter is about as likely to happen as the US building a wall and getting Mexico to pay for it.

At least he's consistent.

Just can't help yourself, can you?

Also, pretty sure he didn't guarantee the US would be open by Easter. He just said he wants that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 26, 2020, 01:05:00 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 26, 2020, 01:02:32 PM

Just can't help yourself, can you?

Also, pretty sure he didn't guarantee the US would be open by Easter. He just said he wants that.

Shooting fish in a barrel....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 26, 2020, 01:06:26 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 26, 2020, 01:05:00 PM

Shooting fish in a barrel....

Weird that you were wrong though.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 26, 2020, 01:11:29 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 26, 2020, 12:59:40 PM

Research suggests South America and Africa may not be hit as hard as northern areas due to their climates. Don't you find it at all curious that something like 90% of cases are all in the northern hemisphere? I think that shows a low likelihood that those areas will have severe outbreaks. That makes me think the US is one of the last areas to get hit.

As for total numbers, I have a really hard time seeing the leap from 20,000 to a million. The world is taking this seriously and putting in pre-emptive measures. Some areas are still going to see awful scenarios like Italy. But if Italy is what we consider awful, then getting to a million deaths seems highly unlikely.

No, and I still don't buy that hypothesis at all.  The virus moved from China to the rest of the world via air travel.  The places that are seeing the outbreak have a lot of contact with Chinese traveling abroad. 

Ecuador, Chile, Pakistan, Thailand, Maylaysia, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Indonesia, Dominican Republic and many other sub tropical, tropical, and hot climate countries just added 10% to their totals today.  They are only now starting to get their testing numbers back, so I expect them to follow the general trend of other places in the world.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 26, 2020, 01:11:37 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 26, 2020, 01:06:26 PM

Weird that you were wrong though. Do you think you'd miss the barrel completely if you were shooting at those fish?

I'd rather get one thing wrong than have it become my modus operandi.

*Mexico will pay for the wall
*We will repeal and replace Obamacare
*We will win so much we'll get sick of it (honestly, I wish we had been right about this one).

And then there was him saying that he knew it was a pandemic before anyone else did. :)

So yeah - maybe one bullet missed the barrel. Still, most of them got me a fish.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 26, 2020, 01:14:32 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 26, 2020, 01:11:29 PM

No, and I still don't buy that hypothesis at all.  The virus moved from China to the rest of the world via air travel.  The places that are seeing the outbreak have a lot of contact with Chinese traveling abroad. 

Ecuador, Chile, Pakistan, Thailand, Maylaysia, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Indonesia, Dominican Republic and many other sub tropical, tropical, and hot climate countries just added 10% to their totals today.  They are only now starting to get their testing numbers back, so I expect them to follow the general trend of other places in the world.

I'll trust the research on this for now. And continue to look for a light at the end of the tunnel.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 26, 2020, 01:19:10 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 26, 2020, 01:11:37 PM

I'd rather get one thing wrong than have it become my modus operandi.

*Mexico will pay for the wall
*We will repeal and replace Obamacare
*We will win so much we'll get sick of it (honestly, I wish we had been right about this one).

And then there was him saying that he knew it was a pandemic before anyone else did. :)

So yeah - maybe one bullet missed the barrel. Still, most of them got me a fish.

Despite the pleasure as you get from this, it's not at all relevant to the conversation. I'm sure there are plenty of other outlets for you to share this kind of stuff.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 26, 2020, 01:22:03 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 26, 2020, 01:14:32 PM

I'll trust the research on this for now. And continue to look for a light at the end of the tunnel.

What research?  The non peer reviewed paper you linked?  They only drew a correlation.  That paper reeks of people trying to throw crap at a wall to see what sticks so they can hang their hat on it later.

I will be hopeful too, but always skeptical of claims without merit, and no means of testing the hypothesis... which is what they admit it is.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 26, 2020, 01:36:07 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 26, 2020, 12:59:40 PM

Research suggests South America and Africa may not be hit as hard as northern areas due to their climates. Don't you find it at all curious that something like 90% of cases are all in the northern hemisphere? I think that shows a low likelihood that those areas will have severe outbreaks. That makes me think the US is one of the last areas to get hit.

As for total numbers, I have a really hard time seeing the leap from 20,000 to a million. The world is taking this seriously and putting in pre-emptive measures. Some areas are still going to see awful scenarios like Italy. But if Italy is what we consider awful, then getting to a million deaths seems highly unlikely.

Holy crap, 90%????? That is amazing. Almost as amazing as this:

The Northern Hemisphere is home to approximately 6.57 billion people which is around 90% of the earth's total human population of 7.3 billion people.

Occum with the win again!

https://www.businessinsider.com/90-of-people-live-in-the-northern-hemisphere-2012-5

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 26, 2020, 01:37:14 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 26, 2020, 01:19:10 PM

Despite the pleasure as you get from this, it's not at all relevant to the conversation. I'm sure there are plenty of other outlets for you to share this kind of stuff.

Fair enough.

Then how about responding to my comment about it moving towards winter in the Southern Hemisphere? You said the US is toward the end of the curve because you don't expect significant increases in the Southern Hemisphere. And yet you were the one who claimed a few pages back that warm and humid weather decreases infection rates. So if the warm and humid weather is gradually leaving the Southern Hemisphere, where do you get the confidence to say we won't see spikes there?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Lens on March 26, 2020, 01:38:43 PM

Quote from: Johnny B on March 26, 2020, 07:44:58 AM

Also countless people will never even realize they had it or wont get tested

 I feel like this is true for the flu as well.  I'm sure tens of thousands fight thru the flu, never going to the hospital / doctor.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 26, 2020, 01:40:18 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 26, 2020, 01:22:03 PM

What research?  The non peer reviewed paper you linked?  They only drew a correlation.  That paper reeks of people trying to throw crap at a wall to see what sticks so they can hang their hat on it later.

I will be hopeful too, but always skeptical of claims without merit, and no means of testing the hypothesis... which is what they admit it is.

I shared 3 papers on that topic. And none of the papers are peer reviewed right now. Researchers and scientists are trying to share what they learn as quickly as possible.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 26, 2020, 01:45:31 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 26, 2020, 01:37:14 PM

Fair enough.

Then how about responding to my comment about it moving towards winter in the Southern Hemisphere? You said the US is toward the end of the curve because you don't expect significant increases in the Southern Hemisphere. And yet you were the one who claimed a few pages back that warm and humid weather decreases infection rates. So if the warm and humid weather is gradually leaving the Southern Hemisphere, where do you get the confidence to say we won't see spikes there?

You made a fair point. I'm guessing that a lot of the areas that remain hot and humid will never get hit hard. More populated areas that do experience a cold, dry months may see cases increase in the next several months. But with the controls being put in place in areas where the virus is thriving now, I'm guess the spread to cooler areas in a few months will be more muted than what we're experiencing now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 26, 2020, 02:02:19 PM

Quote from: The Lens on March 26, 2020, 01:38:43 PM

I feel like this is true for the flu as well.  I'm sure tens of thousands fight thru the flu, never going to the hospital / doctor.

yes i know when my house of 6 had the flu a few years back we did not call a dr at all just dealt with it for a week and moved on.  All numbers are just huge estimates. 
A huge reason the death toll from covid-19 will be higher than the normal yearly flu or h1n1 is the people impacted most are older or have existing conditions

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 26, 2020, 02:13:32 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 26, 2020, 12:29:49 PM

I swear I saw something a little different earlier this week. I think it was showing daily cases or deaths and it was plateauing in the last few days. Maybe it was dated. Based on what you shared, I think you're probably right.

It would have had to have been very dated. Early February.  Deaths per day have been steadily increasing.
Scroll down on this page to see.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-toll/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Eldon on March 26, 2020, 02:23:26 PM

Mexico to the US: Stay out of our country!

Mexican protesters have shut a US southern border crossing amid fears that untested American travellers will spread coronavirus.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/mexicans-demand-crackdown-americans-crossing-154146270.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 26, 2020, 02:27:25 PM

Mexico really isn't one to talk here. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 26, 2020, 03:20:23 PM

People are dying. Lots of people. And it is going to get way worse.

And yet: “If you bought clothing before all this happened, if you want to return it, are stores gonna waive that 30-day period where you can get your money back?” Airhardt wondered. “This not a priority, but women have to get their hair done. I saw someone tweet out, you’re going to see what color our real hair is, because our roots are going to grow in. All my friends are saying — this is not a priority, people are dying, and I realize that — that they can’t get their nails done.”

This is actually said - OUT LOUD on State TV. It's not enough to ask people to just die and get it over with (which they are also asking for on Fox), now we have to worry how brain dead socialites are going to survive the abuse they will receive when they can't get their hair and nails done.

What kind of human being would continue to watch this station after this? That is not a rhetorical question. I mean what kind of person would continue to watch this station?

We have many here. Please, give me an answer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 26, 2020, 03:34:31 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 26, 2020, 03:20:23 PM

People are dying. Lots of people. And it is going to get way worse.

And yet: “If you bought clothing before all this happened, if you want to return it, are stores gonna waive that 30-day period where you can get your money back?” Airhardt wondered. “This not a priority, but women have to get their hair done. I saw someone tweet out, you’re going to see what color our real hair is, because our roots are going to grow in. All my friends are saying — this is not a priority, people are dying, and I realize that — that they can’t get their nails done.”

This is actually said - OUT LOUD on State TV. It's not enough to ask people to just die and get it over with (which they are also asking for on Fox), now we have to worry how brain dead socialites are going to survive the abuse they will receive when they can't get their hair and nails done.

What kind of human being would continue to watch this station after this? That is not a rhetorical question. I mean what kind of person would continue to watch this station?

We have many here. Please, give me an answer.

I have never watched, but to give them the benefit of the doubt...the stress of this situation seems to be bringing out both the best and the worst in us.

On the plus side, direct interactions (i.e., on walks, at a safe distance of course) often end with a sincere “stay safe” or other sentiment.

On the minus, stress often brings out more confrontational, argumentative behavior. I know that I have (often to my later regret) gotten further into arguments right here on Scoop than I normally might. (By the way, I’m sorry.) Anyhow, maybe making light of covid is another way people cope with the stress.

Like I said, I have never watched, so I could be wrong.

Oh, and stay safe all!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 26, 2020, 03:42:23 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 26, 2020, 03:20:23 PM

People are dying. Lots of people. And it is going to get way worse.

And yet: “If you bought clothing before all this happened, if you want to return it, are stores gonna waive that 30-day period where you can get your money back?” Airhardt wondered. “This not a priority, but women have to get their hair done. I saw someone tweet out, you’re going to see what color our real hair is, because our roots are going to grow in. All my friends are saying — this is not a priority, people are dying, and I realize that — that they can’t get their nails done.”

This is actually said - OUT LOUD on State TV. It's not enough to ask people to just die and get it over with (which they are also asking for on Fox), now we have to worry how brain dead socialites are going to survive the abuse they will receive when they can't get their hair and nails done.

What kind of human being would continue to watch this station after this? That is not a rhetorical question. I mean what kind of person would continue to watch this station?

We have many here. Please, give me an answer.

What the fu*k does this have to do with anything adult related?  Grow up.  Plenty of sh!t takes on both sides.  We dont have to transcribe every one of them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 26, 2020, 03:49:56 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 26, 2020, 03:34:31 PM

I have never watched, but to give them the benefit of the doubt...the stress of this situation seems to be bringing out both the best and the worst in us.

On the plus side, direct interactions (i.e., on walks, at a safe distance of course) often end with a sincere “stay safe” or other sentiment.

On the minus, stress often brings out more confrontational, argumentative behavior. I know that I have (often to my later regret) gotten further into arguments right here on Scoop than I normally might. (By the way, I’m sorry.) Anyhow, maybe making light of covid is another way people cope with the stress.

Like I said, I have never watched, so I could be wrong.

Oh, and stay safe all!

Someone said something to that effect to me yesterday -- people do odd things when they are scared.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on March 26, 2020, 04:02:16 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 26, 2020, 03:42:23 PM

What the fu*k does this have to do with anything adult related?  Grow up.  Plenty of sh!t takes on both sides.  We dont have to transcribe every one of them.

Come on, this is America 2020, you cant just disagree with someone's politics or preferences anymore. You have to demean them and question the intelligence of them, cause only one side is ever wrong and dumb

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 26, 2020, 04:13:38 PM

Union finds supplier with 39 million n95 masks on hand and another who can make 20 million a week.
Wonder why no government seemed to be aware of these.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nidhiprakash/seiu-uhw-masks-coronavirus-ppe

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Johnny B on March 26, 2020, 04:18:56 PM

Well weve done it. Usa #1 again.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on March 26, 2020, 04:22:55 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 26, 2020, 03:49:56 PM

Someone said something to that effect to me yesterday -- people do odd things when they are scared.

Like buying a crap ton of toilet paper.  I still haven't figured out what that is all about.  If a crisis was coming, it would be pretty damn far down on the list of stuff I would hoard. I can improvise if there's no TP.  I can't improvise food so well.

Is this related to the fact that they don't put out the Sears catalog anymore?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 26, 2020, 04:24:41 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 26, 2020, 04:13:38 PM

Union finds supplier with 39 million n95 masks on hand and another who can make 20 million a week.
Wonder why no government seemed to be aware of these.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nidhiprakash/seiu-uhw-masks-coronavirus-ppe

I've quoted four times this week companies looking for aluminum flat wire, a.k.a nose wire, for the masks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 26, 2020, 04:25:09 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on March 26, 2020, 04:22:55 PM

Like buying a crap ton of toilet paper.  I still haven't figured out what that is all about.  If a crisis was coming, it would be pretty damn far down on the list of stuff I would hoard. I can improvise if there's no TP.  I can't improvise food so well.

Is this related to the fact that they don't put out the Sears catalog anymore?

Totally.  I just did a grocery stock-up and can report people are now stocking up on the things they need as evidenced by the slim pickings with soup, eggs, flour, and frozen pizzas.  Plenty to shop, but you can tell people are now going for the important stuff.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on March 26, 2020, 04:25:37 PM

Quote from: Johnny B on March 26, 2020, 04:18:56 PM

Well weve done it. Usa #1 again.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

On a positive note, forgetful's death rate is already cut in half.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 26, 2020, 04:27:27 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on March 26, 2020, 04:22:55 PM

Like buying a crap ton of toilet paper.  I still haven't figured out what that is all about.  If a crisis was coming, it would be pretty damn far down on the list of stuff I would hoard. I can improvise if there's no TP.  I can't improvise food so well.

Clearly you've never read "Alive."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 26, 2020, 04:28:22 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on March 26, 2020, 04:22:55 PM

Like buying a crap ton of toilet paper.  I still haven't figured out what that is all about.  If a crisis was coming, it would be pretty damn far down on the list of stuff I would hoard. I can improvise if there's no TP.  I can't improvise food so well.

Jeff D. of Milwaukee would disagree.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 26, 2020, 04:28:41 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on March 26, 2020, 04:25:37 PM

On a positive note, forgetful's death rate is already cut in half.

You have to wait until late tonight.   NYC posts at the end of the day along with WA.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on March 26, 2020, 04:34:36 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 26, 2020, 04:27:27 PM

Clearly you've never read "Alive."

I have indeed.  I said "so well".

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 26, 2020, 04:41:37 PM

Quote from: Johnny B on March 26, 2020, 04:18:56 PM

Well weve done it. Usa #1 again.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Wow. And over 13,000 new cases just since yesterday. We'll probably pass 100,000 by tomorrow...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 26, 2020, 04:48:11 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on March 26, 2020, 04:25:37 PM

On a positive note, forgetful's death rate is already cut in half.

Hopefully, but I think at this point in time yesterday it was about the same number. I think it goes up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Eldon on March 26, 2020, 04:50:04 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 26, 2020, 04:27:27 PM

Clearly you've never read "Alive."

Now that you mention it, JSglow hasn't posted in a while...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 26, 2020, 04:54:07 PM

I'm surprised this isn't getting more attention, but Neil Ferguson of Imperial College, has changed his projected outcomes for the UK, factoring in the effects of recent lockdown measures. He's dropping his estimates from 500K dead in the UK to 20K or less.

"He said that expected increases in National Health Service capacity and ongoing restrictions to people’s movements make him “reasonably confident” the health service can cope when the predicted peak of the epidemic arrives in two or three weeks. UK deaths from the disease are now unlikely to exceed 20,000, he said, and could be much lower."

The earlier Imperial College paper seemed to be pretty highly regarded when it was released. I'm not sure how to digest the significant change here. Is the quality of one or both of these models suspect? Maybe the original had limited mitigation measures accounted for?

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2238578-uk-has-enough-intensive-care-units-for-coronavirus-expert-predicts/ (https://www.newscientist.com/article/2238578-uk-has-enough-intensive-care-units-for-coronavirus-expert-predicts/)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 26, 2020, 06:10:54 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 26, 2020, 04:54:07 PM

I'm surprised this isn't getting more attention, but Neil Ferguson of Imperial College, has changed his projected outcomes for the UK, factoring in the effects of recent lockdown measures. He's dropping his estimates from 500K dead in the UK to 20K or less.

"He said that expected increases in National Health Service capacity and ongoing restrictions to people’s movements make him “reasonably confident” the health service can cope when the predicted peak of the epidemic arrives in two or three weeks. UK deaths from the disease are now unlikely to exceed 20,000, he said, and could be much lower."

The earlier Imperial College paper seemed to be pretty highly regarded when it was released. I'm not sure how to digest the significant change here. Is the quality of one or both of these models suspect? Maybe the original had limited mitigation measures accounted for?

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2238578-uk-has-enough-intensive-care-units-for-coronavirus-expert-predicts/ (https://www.newscientist.com/article/2238578-uk-has-enough-intensive-care-units-for-coronavirus-expert-predicts/)

Its good news, that doesn't get eyeballs or clicks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on March 26, 2020, 06:23:03 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 26, 2020, 12:46:55 PM

It's going to get worse.

New Rochelle went into lockdown two weeks ago and NYC still is seeing its numbers go up.  The irresponsible spring breakers and the people who didn't close the beaches while they could are going to see the results of their decisions come to fruition in the next 7-10 days.

Anyone who thinks we are going to be able to start things back up again by Easter is kidding themselves.

Well Governor Cuomo(who just a few days ago was trending on twitter and being lauded by millions for how he has handled this) disagrees. Says the stay at home order and closing businesses in NY was probably not the best public health strategy. Also said there is a NEED for both public health and economic growth and we CAN do both. Yet, the President was absolutely getting blasted for saying this..again, to think people don't have agendas because of their hatred for this president is a flat out lie. Where isr the outrage over these comments from Cuomo?? Who many bow down to?? All I hear is crickets all of a sudden.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/cuomo-closing-all-businesses-keeping-everyone-home-not-best-public-health-strategy

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 26, 2020, 06:25:26 PM

Guru Why don’t you start a thread to argue about this. I actually think if you talk to folks about what ‘reopen’ means or doesn’t mean, you would find there is a lot of common ground

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 26, 2020, 06:36:15 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 26, 2020, 04:54:07 PM

I'm surprised this isn't getting more attention, but Neil Ferguson of Imperial College, has changed his projected outcomes for the UK, factoring in the effects of recent lockdown measures. He's dropping his estimates from 500K dead in the UK to 20K or less.

"He said that expected increases in National Health Service capacity and ongoing restrictions to people’s movements make him “reasonably confident” the health service can cope when the predicted peak of the epidemic arrives in two or three weeks. UK deaths from the disease are now unlikely to exceed 20,000, he said, and could be much lower."

The earlier Imperial College paper seemed to be pretty highly regarded when it was released. I'm not sure how to digest the significant change here. Is the quality of one or both of these models suspect? Maybe the original had limited mitigation measures accounted for?

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2238578-uk-has-enough-intensive-care-units-for-coronavirus-expert-predicts/ (https://www.newscientist.com/article/2238578-uk-has-enough-intensive-care-units-for-coronavirus-expert-predicts/)

This is great news. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 26, 2020, 06:41:55 PM

Quote from: muguru on March 26, 2020, 06:23:03 PM

Well Governor Cuomo(who just a few days ago was trending on twitter and being lauded by millions for how he has handled this) disagrees. Says the stay at home order and closing businesses in NY was probably not the best public health strategy. Also said there is a NEED for both public health and economic growth and we CAN do both. Yet, the President was absolutely getting blasted for saying this..again, to think people don't have agendas because of their hatred for this president is a flat out lie. Where isr the outrage over these comments from Cuomo?? Who many bow down to?? All I hear is crickets all of a sudden.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/cuomo-closing-all-businesses-keeping-everyone-home-not-best-public-health-strategy

Disagrees with what exactly?  Of course we have to get back to work.  But I don't see anything where he says he agrees with the Easter timeline.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 26, 2020, 06:47:34 PM

Quote from: muguru on March 26, 2020, 06:23:03 PM

Well Governor Cuomo(who just a few days ago was trending on twitter and being lauded by millions for how he has handled this) disagrees. Says the stay at home order and closing businesses in NY was probably not the best public health strategy. Also said there is a NEED for both public health and economic growth and we CAN do both. Yet, the President was absolutely getting blasted for saying this..again, to think people don't have agendas because of their hatred for this president is a flat out lie. Where isr the outrage over these comments from Cuomo?? Who many bow down to?? All I hear is crickets all of a sudden.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/cuomo-closing-all-businesses-keeping-everyone-home-not-best-public-health-strategy

How is it out there in fantasy land?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 26, 2020, 06:48:05 PM

Quote from: muguru on March 26, 2020, 06:23:03 PM

Well Governor Cuomo(who just a few days ago was trending on twitter and being lauded by millions for how he has handled this) disagrees. Says the stay at home order and closing businesses in NY was probably not the best public health strategy. Also said there is a NEED for both public health and economic growth and we CAN do both. Yet, the President was absolutely getting blasted for saying this..again, to think people don't have agendas because of their hatred for this president is a flat out lie. Where isr the outrage over these comments from Cuomo?? Who many bow down to?? All I hear is crickets all of a sudden.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/cuomo-closing-all-businesses-keeping-everyone-home-not-best-public-health-strategy

You need to get out of your bubble

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on March 26, 2020, 07:08:11 PM

Quote from: muguru on March 26, 2020, 06:23:03 PM

Well Governor Cuomo(who just a few days ago was trending on twitter and being lauded by millions for how he has handled this) disagrees. Says the stay at home order and closing businesses in NY was probably not the best public health strategy. Also said there is a NEED for both public health and economic growth and we CAN do both. Yet, the President was absolutely getting blasted for saying this..again, to think people don't have agendas because of their hatred for this president is a flat out lie. Where isr the outrage over these comments from Cuomo?? Who many bow down to?? All I hear is crickets all of a sudden.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/cuomo-closing-all-businesses-keeping-everyone-home-not-best-public-health-strategy

Where can I sign up for the thoughts and the decisions of stupid people affecting only said stupid people as opposed to the rest of us

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 26, 2020, 07:12:00 PM

Quote from: muguru on March 26, 2020, 06:23:03 PM

Well Governor Cuomo(who just a few days ago was trending on twitter and being lauded by millions for how he has handled this) disagrees. Says the stay at home order and closing businesses in NY was probably not the best public health strategy. Also said there is a NEED for both public health and economic growth and we CAN do both. Yet, the President was absolutely getting blasted for saying this..again, to think people don't have agendas because of their hatred for this president is a flat out lie. Where isr the outrage over these comments from Cuomo?? Who many bow down to?? All I hear is crickets all of a sudden.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/cuomo-closing-all-businesses-keeping-everyone-home-not-best-public-health-strategy

This is called a leader taking responsibility, perhaps admitting that he might have done something differently and not pretending that he knows everything.

Your hero might want to try any one of those any time, instead of doubling down on his ridiculous assertions -- not just about the COVFEFE-19 situation but pretty much everything --  over and over again.

Cuomo is admitting he's not sure what NY did was the right strategy. He's also not sure it was the wrong strategy. He is perplexed, as most are, by this. He listened to his experts, but he is not throwing them under the bus, calling them names, blaming the opposition party or accusing the media of being corrupt.

Wow. It would be refreshing to have a national leader like that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on March 26, 2020, 07:14:15 PM

Quote from: MU82 on March 26, 2020, 07:12:00 PM

This is called a leader taking responsibility, perhaps admitting that he might have done something differently and not pretending that he knows everything.

Your hero might want to try any one of those any time, instead of doubling down on his ridiculous assertions -- not just about the COVFEFE-19 situation but pretty much everything --  over and over again.

Cuomo is admitting he's not sure what NY did was the right strategy. He's also not sure it was the wrong strategy. He is perplexed, as most are, by this. He listened to his experts, but he is not throwing them under the bus, calling them names, blaming the opposition party or accusing the media of being corrupt.

Wow. It would be refreshing to have a national leader like that.

and it might help to have a coherent federally coordinated response to get testing - both live and titers - so that regional leaders have a better chance at informed decision

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 26, 2020, 07:26:24 PM

Quote from: MU82 on March 26, 2020, 07:12:00 PM

This is called a leader taking responsibility, perhaps admitting that he might have done something differently and not pretending that he knows everything.

Your hero might want to try any one of those any time, instead of doubling down on his ridiculous assertions -- not just about the COVFEFE-19 situation but pretty much everything --  over and over again.

Cuomo is admitting he's not sure what NY did was the right strategy. He's also not sure it was the wrong strategy. He is perplexed, as most are, by this. He listened to his experts, but he is not throwing them under the bus, calling them names, blaming the opposition party or accusing the media of being corrupt.

Wow. It would be refreshing to have a national leader like that.

I have never seen a president - or any person for that matter - who so aggressively takes credit for every good thing that happens, and assigns blame to someone else for every bad thing.

Cuomo deserves credit for conceding that he still isn’t sure if it was the right move.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 26, 2020, 08:09:38 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 26, 2020, 06:10:54 PM

Its good news, that doesn't get eyeballs or clicks.

Crazy, right? I saw the story on Facebook but wanted to find a better source, and when I tried to find other sources, I was surprised at how few sites were carrying the story. Maybe 3 or 4 news sites, but none of the big names. I knew what I was looking for and had trouble finding it. I doubt many people will come across it just looking for news on the virus.

Why wouldn't The Guardian, Reuters, AP,  NY Times, NBC, etc. carry this? Most or maybe all of them all ran the original story. Why not pick up the update?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 26, 2020, 08:18:58 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 26, 2020, 08:09:38 PM

Crazy, right? I saw the story on Facebook but wanted to find a better source, and when I tried to find other sources, I was surprised at how few sites were carrying the story. Maybe 3 or 4 news sites, but none of the big names. I knew what I was looking for and had trouble finding it. I doubt many people will come across it just looking for news on the virus.

Why wouldn't The Guardian, Reuters, AP,  NY Times, NBC, etc. carry this? Most or maybe all of them all ran the original story. Why not pick up the update?

I don't mean to push back, but sometimes news takes a while to get out, but its the 4th from top post on /r/COVID-19 on reddit.

And this one is top on /r/coronavirus

https://m.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/digitec/coronavirus-pandemie-bosch-erfindet-eigenen-covid-19-schnelltest-16697237.html

So there are good stories out there, but we are in a terrible situation and thing are getting worse.  Sort of how news coverage works.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on March 26, 2020, 08:33:01 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 26, 2020, 08:18:58 PM

I don't mean to push back, but sometimes news takes a while to get out, but its the 4th from top post on /r/COVID-19 on reddit.

And this one is top on /r/coronavirus

https://m.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/digitec/coronavirus-pandemie-bosch-erfindet-eigenen-covid-19-schnelltest-16697237.html

So there are good stories out there, but we are in a terrible situation and thing are getting worse.  Sort of how news coverage works.

Also noteworthty that Fergusom emphasized that it's BECAUSE of the aggressive measures. If they decide to stop because they want to go hunt for Easter Eggs, his estimate of lethality remains unchanged. So it's great news for Brits who seem committed to this. Must be nice.

https://twitter.com/neil_ferguson/status/1243294815200124928?s=19 (https://twitter.com/neil_ferguson/status/1243294815200124928?s=19)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 26, 2020, 08:33:58 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 26, 2020, 08:18:58 PM

I don't mean to push back, but sometimes news takes a while to get out, but its the 4th from top post on /r/COVID-19 on reddit.

And this one is top on /r/coronavirus

https://m.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/digitec/coronavirus-pandemie-bosch-erfindet-eigenen-covid-19-schnelltest-16697237.html

So there are good stories out there, but we are in a terrible situation and thing are getting worse.  Sort of how news coverage works.

Dude, reddit page rank?  You're better than than.

And people are giving guru grief?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 26, 2020, 08:34:55 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 26, 2020, 08:09:38 PM

Crazy, right? I saw the story on Facebook but wanted to find a better source, and when I tried to find other sources, I was surprised at how few sites were carrying the story. Maybe 3 or 4 news sites, but none of the big names. I knew what I was looking for and had trouble finding it. I doubt many people will come across it just looking for news on the virus.

Why wouldn't The Guardian, Reuters, AP,  NY Times, NBC, etc. carry this? Most or maybe all of them all ran the original story. Why not pick up the update?

I think you would do well to read Ferguson's Twitter thread on the topic this afternoon and then rethink some assumptions.

@neil_ferguson: 1/4 - I think it would be helpful if I cleared up some confusion that has emerged in recent days. Some have interpreted my evidence to a UK parliamentary committee as indicating we have substantially revised our assessments of the potential mortality impact of COVID-19.

@neil_ferguson: 2/4 -This is not the case. Indeed, if anything, our latest estimates suggest that the virus is slightly more transmissible than we previously thought. Our lethality estimates remain unchanged.

@neil_ferguson: 3/4 - My evidence to Parliament referred to the deaths we assess might occur in the UK in the presence of the very intensive social distancing and other public health interventions now in place.

@neil_ferguson: 4/4 - Without those controls, our assessment remains that the UK would see the scale of deaths reported in our study (namely, up to approximately 500 thousand).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 26, 2020, 08:37:35 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 26, 2020, 08:33:58 PM

Dude, reddit page rank?  You're better than than.

And people are giving guru grief?

You know, it's easier to just say you don't understand things... especially, reddit.

edit: Also, it would seem like you missed my point entirely.  skianth16 said that there was no good news out there, and so I mentioned that the link he posted was quite popular, and that the top story on a subreddit with over 1.7 million subscribers was the story I linked.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 26, 2020, 08:44:32 PM

Off the rails with the politics again...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 26, 2020, 08:45:41 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 26, 2020, 08:44:32 PM

Off the rails with the politics again...

Don't worry, he will be back questioning why his post got removed and rail against how its only his side.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 26, 2020, 08:48:09 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 26, 2020, 08:37:35 PM

You know, it's easier to just say you don't understand things... especially, reddit.

edit: Also, it would seem like you missed my point entirely.  skianth16 said that there was no good news out there, and so I mentioned that the link he posted was quite popular, and that the top story on a subreddit with over 1.7 million subscribers was the story I linked.

Fair.  I hate reddit but am still a sucker for checking it daily. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 26, 2020, 08:50:27 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 26, 2020, 08:34:55 PM

I think you would do well to read Ferguson's Twitter thread on the topic this afternoon and then rethink some assumptions.

@neil_ferguson: 1/4 - I think it would be helpful if I cleared up some confusion that has emerged in recent days. Some have interpreted my evidence to a UK parliamentary committee as indicating we have substantially revised our assessments of the potential mortality impact of COVID-19.

@neil_ferguson: 2/4 -This is not the case. Indeed, if anything, our latest estimates suggest that the virus is slightly more transmissible than we previously thought. Our lethality estimates remain unchanged.

@neil_ferguson: 3/4 - My evidence to Parliament referred to the deaths we assess might occur in the UK in the presence of the very intensive social distancing and other public health interventions now in place.

@neil_ferguson: 4/4 - Without those controls, our assessment remains that the UK would see the scale of deaths reported in our study (namely, up to approximately 500 thousand).

Yep. Pretty obvious that he considers the shelter-in-place/extreme social distancing a prerequisite for decreasing deaths.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 26, 2020, 08:53:23 PM

Yikes, Cuomo said today that NYC peak is still 3 weeks out.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 26, 2020, 09:01:43 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 26, 2020, 08:53:23 PM

Yikes, Cuomo said today that NYC peak is still 3 weeks out.

Sounds about right. They are seeing cases right now from before the restrictions. They will see 2-weeks of case growth/leveling due to cases from the first week of transitioning, then at least 1 more weak of tapering off to a peak.

I'm hoping that the time from infection to diagnosis are on the shorter end of the current estimates, though, and that they may peak in as early as 2-weeks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 26, 2020, 09:21:03 PM

268 deaths. Still tripling every three days. Hopefully since (so far) it wasn't a huge increase from yesterday, it may be at least slowing.  Same for cases.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 26, 2020, 09:35:59 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 26, 2020, 08:18:58 PM

I don't mean to push back, but sometimes news takes a while to get out, but its the 4th from top post on /r/COVID-19 on reddit.

And this one is top on /r/coronavirus

https://m.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/digitec/coronavirus-pandemie-bosch-erfindet-eigenen-covid-19-schnelltest-16697237.html

So there are good stories out there, but we are in a terrible situation and thing are getting worse.  Sort of how news coverage works.

I'm happy to see the Imperial College update getting coverage somewhere. I was just surprised that I didn't see much on Google when I looked for it. I just find it frustrating that the good news tends to spread so much more slowly than the bad news.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 26, 2020, 09:40:30 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 26, 2020, 08:34:55 PM

I think you would do well to read Ferguson's Twitter thread on the topic this afternoon and then rethink some assumptions.

@neil_ferguson: 1/4 - I think it would be helpful if I cleared up some confusion that has emerged in recent days. Some have interpreted my evidence to a UK parliamentary committee as indicating we have substantially revised our assessments of the potential mortality impact of COVID-19.

@neil_ferguson: 2/4 -This is not the case. Indeed, if anything, our latest estimates suggest that the virus is slightly more transmissible than we previously thought. Our lethality estimates remain unchanged.

@neil_ferguson: 3/4 - My evidence to Parliament referred to the deaths we assess might occur in the UK in the presence of the very intensive social distancing and other public health interventions now in place.

@neil_ferguson: 4/4 - Without those controls, our assessment remains that the UK would see the scale of deaths reported in our study (namely, up to approximately 500 thousand).

I think what Ferguson is referring to is the kind of story I saw on Facebook but didn't buy into right away. The link I shared made it clear that his adjustment to the numbers was based on the measures being taken to maintain social distancing and avoid non-essential work/travel.

But to me, that's the number that matters. The numbers focusing on do-nothing scenarios are meaningless because the UK and essentially all other affected countries are actively trying to slow down the spread and limit the number of people affected. I take his response as a bit of a CYA comment to make sure people don't start to downplay the severity of the virus or for those who question the original, super high numbers.

For me, the takeaway from the new numbers is that Ferguson and his fellow researchers believe the measures being taken are effective. It's confirmation that we're doing a lot of the right things.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 26, 2020, 10:11:49 PM

Another finding that is just coming out regarding the fatalities aside from age, immunosuppressions, respiratory etc the next highest predisposing health issue coming out is prediabetic and diabetics

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 26, 2020, 10:51:46 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 26, 2020, 09:40:30 PM

I think what Ferguson is referring to is the kind of story I saw on Facebook but didn't buy into right away. The link I shared made it clear that his adjustment to the numbers was based on the measures being taken to maintain social distancing and avoid non-essential work/travel.

But to me, that's the number that matters. The numbers focusing on do-nothing scenarios are meaningless because the UK and essentially all other affected countries are actively trying to slow down the spread and limit the number of people affected. I take his response as a bit of a CYA comment to make sure people don't start to downplay the severity of the virus or for those who question the original, super high numbers.

For me, the takeaway from the new numbers is that Ferguson and his fellow researchers believe the measures being taken are effective. It's confirmation that we're doing a lot of the right things.

To be fair, the original UK plan was to just let people get infected. Their change, and the restrictions put in place, were because of the Imperial College Study.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 27, 2020, 07:15:06 AM

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.21.990770v1.full.pdf

This looks promising. Could be testing in patients in 6 months, but the Chinese may be able to do it even faster.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 27, 2020, 08:17:20 AM

Boris Johnson tests positive.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on March 27, 2020, 08:21:07 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 27, 2020, 08:17:20 AM

Boris Johnson tests positive.

Dr. Trump on line one: "One of the reasons the UK, basically, has been: It's got the border; it's got very strong borders. And they're doing a very good job. They don't have very much infection at this point, and hopefully they'll keep it that way."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on March 27, 2020, 08:29:30 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 27, 2020, 08:17:20 AM

Boris Johnson tests positive.

I apologize if this is too political, but based on all candidates right now being in their 70s, I wonder what happens in the Presidential Election. Unless they campaign via Zoom Meetings, they will probably be more at risk based on the travel and interactions with multiple people. Hopefully, we have a treatment by then, but I wouldn’t be surprised if one of Biden or Trump get it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 27, 2020, 08:34:05 AM

Quote from: cheebs09 on March 27, 2020, 08:29:30 AM

I apologize if this is too political, but based on all candidates right now being in their 70s, I wonder what happens in the Presidential Election. Unless they campaign via Zoom Meetings, they will probably be more at risk based on the travel and interactions with multiple people. Hopefully, we have a treatment by then, but I wouldn’t be surprised if one of Biden or Trump get it.

I've thought the same. Both Trump and Pence have been unbelievably lucky after multiple exposures and I don't know if Biden has confirmed exposure but sounds like Rand Paul made sure every Senator did. Have to imagine the luck would run out as the schedule got more and more intense with meetings and events

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 27, 2020, 08:37:40 AM

Mayo Clinic, MIT and others partner with Amazon Web Services and Microsoft to form "COVID-19 Coalition." The goal is for the organizations to being their broad and diverse expertise and resources together to develop and deploy solutions to the crisis. Of note:

*Each organization is contributing its own resources and staff,
*Any solutions will be freely shared and open source, and
*None of the participants will be paid for their work.

Other notable participants include the University of California, Rush University and Intermountain Healthcare.

https://www.medcitybeat.com/news-blog/2020/for-the-benefit-of-all-mayo-partners-with-amazon-microsoft-and-others-in-fight-against-covid-19

https://c19hcc.org/static/img/insights/COVID19-Healthcare-Coalition-Launch-News-Release.pdf

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 27, 2020, 08:43:30 AM

94% of covid tests coming back negative in WI according to DHS.

great news.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 27, 2020, 08:51:04 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 27, 2020, 08:43:30 AM

94% of covid tests coming back negative in WI according to DHS.

great news.

Any idea if WI has looser guidelines on who can be tested?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 27, 2020, 08:51:16 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 27, 2020, 08:43:30 AM

94% of covid tests coming back negative in WI according to DHS.

great news.

That is great news and with testing, my bet is we can start getting back to normal in more areas. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 27, 2020, 09:09:23 AM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 27, 2020, 08:51:04 AM

Any idea if WI has looser guidelines on who can be tested?

Don't know what the guidelines are, but this link (https://covidtracking.com/data/) lists total # tested, positive, etc.

FWIW: WI has tested 12,290, with 707 positive results (94.2% negative). By comparison, MN has tested 12,950, with 346 positive results (97.3% negative).

On the flip side, MI has tested only 9,406, but has 2,856 positives (only 69.6% negative), and MO has tested only 871, and has 502 positives (only 42.3% negative).

From the looks of it, the straightforward matter of access to testing seems to be a pretty significant factor in reporting the infection rates. Therefore the actual infection rates may not be known (if ever) until access to testing is near-universal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 27, 2020, 09:10:57 AM

In Pritzker's presser yesterday, the public health doctor (sorry I forget her name) said the state's cases are still growing quickly, as expected, but it is below where they projected.

I think that is also relatively good news.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 27, 2020, 09:25:46 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 27, 2020, 08:17:20 AM

Boris Johnson tests positive.

https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1243522598878789632?s=20

Good lord.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Eldon on March 27, 2020, 09:28:12 AM

The mistakes that turned New York into an epicenter of the coronavirus epidemic

https://www.yahoo.com/news/the-mistakes-that-turned-new-york-into-an-epicenter-of-the-coronavirus-epidemic-090040375.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 27, 2020, 09:34:50 AM

Quote from: Eldon on March 27, 2020, 09:28:12 AM

The mistakes that turned New York into an epicenter of the coronavirus epidemic

https://www.yahoo.com/news/the-mistakes-that-turned-new-york-into-an-epicenter-of-the-coronavirus-epidemic-090040375.html

Yeah, I've read a few accounts like this. Disturbing.

Not easy, but De Blasio's response was even worse than Trump's, and he has handled it equally badly (if not worse) since then.

Hopefully, he will get punished at the ballot box and we won't hear from him again.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 27, 2020, 09:41:30 AM

Quote from: Eldon on March 27, 2020, 09:28:12 AM

The mistakes that turned New York into an epicenter of the coronavirus epidemic

https://www.yahoo.com/news/the-mistakes-that-turned-new-york-into-an-epicenter-of-the-coronavirus-epidemic-090040375.html

I think the criticisms of DiBlasio are fair. He has been inconsistent in his messaging, much like POTUS. And like POTUS, he typically deflects blame to others when things aren't going well.

Cuomo, on the other hand, has become a star in how to handle a crisis like this. His responses have generally been consistent with medical recommendations, his demeanor has been calming while still conveying the gravity and uncertainty of the situation, and he has admitted when he may have made mistakes.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: onepost on March 27, 2020, 10:36:31 AM

Quote from: muguru on March 26, 2020, 06:23:03 PM

Well Governor Cuomo(who just a few days ago was trending on twitter and being lauded by millions for how he has handled this) disagrees. Says the stay at home order and closing businesses in NY was probably not the best public health strategy. Also said there is a NEED for both public health and economic growth and we CAN do both. Yet, the President was absolutely getting blasted for saying this..again, to think people don't have agendas because of their hatred for this president is a flat out lie. Where isr the outrage over these comments from Cuomo?? Who many bow down to?? All I hear is crickets all of a sudden.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/cuomo-closing-all-businesses-keeping-everyone-home-not-best-public-health-strategy

In a time of wild uncertainty and ambiguity, this was the most obvious revelation during this entire pandemic......

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 27, 2020, 10:44:22 AM

Quote from: MU82 on March 27, 2020, 09:34:50 AM

Yeah, I've read a few accounts like this. Disturbing.

Not easy, but De Blasio's response was even worse than Trump's, and he has handled it equally badly (if not worse) since then.

Hopefully, he will get punished at the ballot box and we won't hear from him again.

I think he's term limited and cannot run again for mayor so when his term is done he's done.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 27, 2020, 10:48:04 AM

Incompetence doesn't fall on partisan lines. Trump and DeBlasio have been equally terrible.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: BM1090 on March 27, 2020, 11:17:48 AM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 27, 2020, 08:51:04 AM

Any idea if WI has looser guidelines on who can be tested?

I don't think so.

My girlfriend's mom is a nurse who is directly treating two COVID-19 patients. She has had a low grade fever for almost a week. She cannot get a test.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 27, 2020, 11:21:17 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 27, 2020, 08:51:16 AM

That is great news and with testing, my bet is we can start getting back to normal in more areas.

The bad news is that cases have doubled in the last two days in Wisconsin.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on March 27, 2020, 11:28:28 AM

Quote from: MU82 on March 27, 2020, 09:34:50 AM

Yeah, I've read a few accounts like this. Disturbing.

Not easy, but De Blasio's response was even worse than Trump's, and he has handled it equally badly (if not worse) since then.

Hopefully, he will get punished at the ballot box and we won't hear from him again.

He's been an utter buffoon.  We listened to the De Blasio pressers (normally a few hours after Cuomo) daily.  That stopped after a few days last week.  He had nothing to add, wasn't reassuring, blamed anyone and everyone, and repeated worthless platitudes.  All he was missing was adding a stupid comment about how it didn't matter if people liked what he did or not cause they'd want to live in NYC regardless.  Remember when he wanted to join the Democratic primary? See ya never Bill

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 27, 2020, 11:36:11 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 27, 2020, 09:09:23 AM

Don't know what the guidelines are, but this link (https://covidtracking.com/data/) lists total # tested, positive, etc.

FWIW: WI has tested 12,290, with 707 positive results (94.2% negative). By comparison, MN has tested 12,950, with 346 positive results (97.3% negative).

On the flip side, MI has tested only 9,406, but has 2,856 positives (only 69.6% negative), and MO has tested only 871, and has 502 positives (only 42.3% negative).

From the looks of it, the straightforward matter of access to testing seems to be a pretty significant factor in reporting the infection rates. Therefore the actual infection rates may not be known (if ever) until access to testing is near-universal.

Had a dr appointment last week for my son (in Sheboygan) they screened us both at the door for symptoms fever, cough, sore throat, traveled recently...I then asked what if we did not pass screening do you test us and they laughed and said no we do not have those here.  They said you get sent home to quarantine for 14 days then if you are not better or much worse at any point call the hotline number and they will direct you to a testing site.
So to see 94% negative tests shocks me as it seems in WI they are testing those with severe symptoms only.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 27, 2020, 11:56:19 AM

Italy reporting 969 one day deaths.

https://twitter.com/MattMcBradley/status/1243578818876641288?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 27, 2020, 12:01:02 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 27, 2020, 11:56:19 AM

Italy reporting 969 one day deaths.

https://twitter.com/MattMcBradley/status/1243578818876641288?s=19

Awful news, but not terribly surprising.  Those who got sick later and have no place to go with pass without help.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 27, 2020, 12:04:14 PM

Regarding some Govenors having trouble getting equipment and supplies:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1243355519818928128?s=19

https://twitter.com/ChadLivengood/status/1243565136448835584?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 27, 2020, 12:20:18 PM

The head of a local health system was on television this morning saying that while medical equipment, like ventilators, is a problem.  The lack of qualified health personnel he thinks will end up being the larger one.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on March 27, 2020, 12:48:48 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 27, 2020, 12:20:18 PM

The lack of qualified health personnel he thinks will end up being the larger one.

This is the truth for this. We had one guy die in Milwaukee from a heart attack due to the lack of medical personnel in surgery. Most of them got shifted onto the COVID 19 operations. He was about 88 years old and not in good health to begin with, he could have been saved and lived a couple more years in a normal time.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Sir Lawrence on March 27, 2020, 12:57:50 PM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on March 27, 2020, 12:48:48 PM

This is the truth for this. We had one guy die in Milwaukee from a heart attack due to the lack of medical personnel in surgery. Most of them got shifted onto the COVID 19 operations. He was about 88 years old and not in good health to begin with, he could have been saved and lived a couple more years in a normal time.

Which hospital?  I know two surgeons and three anesthesiologists at Froedtert and that has not happened there.  They are planning for the worst, but currently they have roughly 20 patients and 4 deaths so far.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JuniorCardigan on March 27, 2020, 01:04:31 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 27, 2020, 08:34:05 AM

I've thought the same. Both Trump and Pence have been unbelievably lucky after multiple exposures and I don't know if Biden has confirmed exposure but sounds like Rand Paul made sure every Senator did. Have to imagine the luck would run out as the schedule got more and more intense with meetings and events

Even if he tested positive, would Trump tell the truth about it?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on March 27, 2020, 01:05:11 PM

Quote from: Sir Lawrence on March 27, 2020, 12:57:50 PM

Which hospital?  I know two surgeons and three anesthesiologists at Froedtert and that has not happened there.  They are planning for the worst, but currently they have roughly 20 patients and 4 deaths so far.

Ascension in Franklin.

Note they are not currently overrun with COVID either, however the amount of staff transferred over has created strain on other departments. Each patient requires a full time observer who does nothing but montiors everyone going in and out of the room for proper procedure. That will start taking a lot of people to do.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 27, 2020, 01:13:06 PM

Quote from: JuniorCardigan on March 27, 2020, 01:04:31 PM

Even if he tested positive, would Trump tell the truth about it?

No.

Or Yes and his greatness would defeat the virus in his body.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 27, 2020, 01:40:56 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 27, 2020, 12:04:14 PM

Regarding some Govenors having trouble getting equipment and supplies:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1243355519818928128?s=19

https://twitter.com/ChadLivengood/status/1243565136448835584?s=19

Is the implication here that Trump is mad at some governors and telling private companies to not help those states??

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 27, 2020, 01:41:16 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 27, 2020, 01:13:06 PM

No.

Or Yes and his greatness would defeat the virus in his body.

That's my guess. We would either learn about it as he was on his deathbed, or after he recovered.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 27, 2020, 02:05:00 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 27, 2020, 01:40:56 PM

Is the implication here that Trump is mad at some governors and telling private companies to not help those states??

Yes.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 27, 2020, 02:09:52 PM

10 minute Dr. Fauci video interview answering many of the basic questions many people have.


https://twitter.com/TheDailyShow/status/1243387606269751298?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 27, 2020, 02:18:31 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 27, 2020, 02:05:00 PM

Yes.

That's unnatural carnal knowledgeed up.

Putting US citizen lives at risk over something petty?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on March 27, 2020, 02:20:23 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 27, 2020, 01:40:56 PM

Is the implication here that Trump is mad at some governors and telling private companies to not help those states??

This was how it was always going to end. Blame blue state governors for the issues.

Trump operates in colors. These are blue states, brown people.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 27, 2020, 02:24:08 PM

Today we are having a large spike in deaths.  MI, LA and NJ greatly elevated and I’m afraid this will be a tough weekend.  I personally wish we can start fighting the enemy together in this war—because it’s stepping up. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on March 27, 2020, 02:28:22 PM

Guess this qualifies as good in a world of crap right now...but hopefully this trend continues.

NY's doubling rate is slowed from every 2.5 days to 4 days...

https://www.yahoo.com/news/yorks-coronavirus-death-toll-passes-172713123.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 27, 2020, 02:30:29 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 27, 2020, 02:09:52 PM

10 minute Dr. Fauci video interview answering many of the basic questions many people have.


https://twitter.com/TheDailyShow/status/1243387606269751298?s=19

good stuff well worth the 10 minutes

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 27, 2020, 03:17:09 PM

Quote from: reinko on March 27, 2020, 02:28:22 PM

Guess this qualifies as good in a world of crap right now...but hopefully this trend continues.

NY's doubling rate is slowed from every 2.5 days to 4 days...

https://www.yahoo.com/news/yorks-coronavirus-death-toll-passes-172713123.html

That's actually fantastic news.

New case #s are going to continue going up for 2-3 weeks, but if the rate of growth is slowing, that is a good thing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 27, 2020, 03:19:28 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 27, 2020, 02:05:00 PM

Yes.

Have we fallen so far that our President is willing to let American citizens die because they live in a blue state?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 27, 2020, 03:25:41 PM

Quote from: Coleman on March 27, 2020, 03:19:28 PM

Have we fallen so far that our President is willing to let American citizens die because they live in a blue state?

Yes. We should not be one country anymore too polarized.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 27, 2020, 03:26:08 PM

In the all over the place, you just can't make this stuff up department:

Trump has now decided to invoke the Defense Production Act today after weeks and weeks of asking from Govenors, state officials. Why?

Because of his spat with GM and Ford. He is specifically invoking it so that those companies will make ventilators. Previously GM had a deal to make them. Trump backed out because retooling factory costs, $1 billion, $12.5k per unit. (which isn't expensive)

As you may recall last night Trump questioned the need for more ventilators. Again, invoking the act is something he could have done long ago.

https://twitter.com/NYCEMSwatch/status/1243394180916736008?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 27, 2020, 03:38:32 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 27, 2020, 10:44:22 AM

I think he's term limited and cannot run again for mayor so when his term is done he's done.

That's some rare good news out of NYC.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on March 27, 2020, 03:42:53 PM

Quote from: Coleman on March 27, 2020, 03:19:28 PM

Have we fallen so far that our President is willing to let American citizens die because they live in a blue state?

Loyalty above all else is how it works now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 27, 2020, 03:49:37 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 27, 2020, 03:26:08 PM

In the all over the place, you just can't make this stuff up department:

Trump has now decided to invoke the Defense Production Act today after weeks and weeks of asking from Govenors, state officials. Why?

Because of his spat with GM and Ford. He is specifically invoking it so that those companies will make ventilators. Previously GM had a deal to make them. Trump backed out because retooling factory costs, $1 billion, $12.5k per unit. (which isn't expensive)

As you may recall last night Trump questioned the need for more ventilators. Again, invoking the act is something he could have done long ago.

https://twitter.com/NYCEMSwatch/status/1243394180916736008?s=19

That's not at all what was in the article from the tweet you shared. It says the decision to not move forward with GM was made by FEMA. The uncertainty over how many ventilators the country needs due to the constant changes in data seems to be playing a big role in the lack of decision-making here.

"The decision to cancel the announcement (about the GM/Ventec partnership to make ventilators), government officials say, came after the Federal Emergency Management Agency said it needed more time to assess whether the estimated cost was prohibitive."

"Those issues appeared to come to a head on Wednesday afternoon, when FEMA told the White House that it was premature to make a decision."

"Targets have changed by the hour, officials said, as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the Department of Health and Human Services, the Food and Drug Administration, which approves the use of medical devices, and the White House try to figure out how many ventilators to request and how much they should cost."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 27, 2020, 03:56:34 PM

Quote from: Coleman on March 27, 2020, 03:19:28 PM

Have we fallen so far that our President is willing to let American citizens die because they live in a blue state?

We have fallen so far that nobody is even surprised.

He had normalized appalling conduct to the point where everyone views it as just "Trump being Trump."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 27, 2020, 03:57:37 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 27, 2020, 01:40:56 PM

Is the implication here that Trump is mad at some governors and telling private companies to not help those states??

It's a symptom and actions of someone with Severe Narcissistic Disorder Syndrome.

There are several stories about it over the last 3 years from The Atlantic.  When I locate I will share.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 27, 2020, 04:04:09 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 27, 2020, 03:57:37 PM

It's a symptom and actions of someone with Severe Narcissistic Disorder Syndrome.

There are several stories about it over the last 3 years from The Atlantic.  When I locate I will share.

Guys, we get it. There are a handful of posters who just can't reign in their disdain for Trump. There are a ton of outlets on the internet to share your mockery of him. This is not the forum for that.

And if you're going to post tweets or stories about him, at least make an attempt to share accurate summaries. This shouldn't be hard for a board full of adults.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 27, 2020, 04:06:05 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 27, 2020, 04:04:09 PM

Guys, we get it. There are a handful of posters who just can't reign in their disdain for Trump. There are a ton of outlets on the internet to share your mockery of him. This is not the forum for that.

And if you're going to post tweets or stories about him, at least make an attempt to share accurate summaries. This shouldn't be hard for a board full of adults.

You ain't from round these parts, is ya?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on March 27, 2020, 04:08:20 PM

Y'all get yo chance in November ta vote yea or nay. Dat's democracy and dat's da way wee do it here. God bless America, aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 27, 2020, 04:10:12 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 27, 2020, 04:04:09 PM

Guys, we get it. There are a handful of posters who just can't reign in their disdain for Trump. There are a ton of outlets on the internet to share your mockery of him. This is not the forum for that.

And if you're going to post tweets or stories about him, at least make an attempt to share accurate summaries. This shouldn't be hard for a board full of adults.

For what it's worth, I view it as a serious medical condition, and recognize that he may be every bit as unhappy as the people he hurts or belittles. I feel bad for the guy - I really do. Honestly, I am more angry with the Cabinet, VP and much of Congress for failing to recognize the obvious, and giving him no choice but to move out of the office and hopefully get the treatment he needs.

And as someone who has a very intimate knowledge of NPD, I know that's what it takes - some external action that you can't control, essentially forcing you to face reality and get treatment.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 27, 2020, 04:11:00 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 27, 2020, 04:06:05 PM

You ain't from round these parts, is ya?

I usually ignore it. But man, the last page or two was too much. Decent discussions about important topics get derailed so fast.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 27, 2020, 04:12:45 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 27, 2020, 04:10:12 PM

For what it's worth, I view it as a serious medical condition, and recognize that he may be every bit as unhappy as the people he hurts or belittles. I feel bad for the guy - I really do. Honestly, I am more angry with the Cabinet, VP and much of Congress for failing to recognize the obvious, and giving him no choice but to get the treatment he needs.

And as someone who has a very intimate knowledge of NPD, I know that's what it takes - some external action that you can't control, essentially forcing you to face reality and get treatment.

It has zero relevance to this conversation.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 27, 2020, 04:14:31 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 27, 2020, 04:04:09 PM

Guys, we get it. There are a handful of posters who just can't reign in their disdain for Trump. There are a ton of outlets on the internet to share your mockery of him. This is not the forum for that.

And if you're going to post tweets or stories about him, at least make an attempt to share accurate summaries. This shouldn't be hard for a board full of adults.

I agree.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 27, 2020, 04:16:04 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 27, 2020, 04:12:45 PM

It has zero relevance to this conversation.

This conversation is about COVID-19...right? And what both state and federal officials are doing about it...right?

Unless you disagree with either of the above, it has everything to do with this conversation.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 27, 2020, 04:16:11 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 27, 2020, 03:49:37 PM

That's not at all what was in the article from the tweet you shared. It says the decision to not move forward with GM was made by FEMA. The uncertainty over how many ventilators the country needs due to the constant changes in data seems to be playing a big role in the lack of decision-making here.

"The decision to cancel the announcement (about the GM/Ventec partnership to make ventilators), government officials say, came after the Federal Emergency Management Agency said it needed more time to assess whether the estimated cost was prohibitive."

"Those issues appeared to come to a head on Wednesday afternoon, when FEMA told the White House that it was premature to make a decision."

"Targets have changed by the hour, officials said, as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the Department of Health and Human Services, the Food and Drug Administration, which approves the use of medical devices, and the White House try to figure out how many ventilators to request and how much they should cost."

FEMA reports to Secretary of Homeland Security which is a part of the President's Cabinet.

Trump has specifically stated today why he was invoking the Defense Production Act.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1243557418556162050?s=19

https://twitter.com/peterbakernyt/status/1243629529224171522?s=19

https://twitter.com/Grace_Segers/status/1243630923515670534?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 27, 2020, 04:18:17 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 27, 2020, 04:04:09 PM

Guys, we get it. There are a handful of posters who just can't reign in their disdain for Trump. There are a ton of outlets on the internet to share your mockery of him. This is not the forum for that.

And if you're going to post tweets or stories about him, at least make an attempt to share accurate summaries. This shouldn't be hard for a board full of adults.

Are you saying the Mayo Clinic definition of Narcissistic Personality Disorder is inaccurate? Please enlighten us.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 27, 2020, 04:21:20 PM

Not a good milestone, but we just passed 100,000 diagnosed cases.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

United States

Coronavirus Cases:
100,514

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 27, 2020, 04:21:35 PM

http://www.healthdata.org/research-article/forecasting-covid-19-impact-hospital-bed-days-icu-days-ventilator-days-and-deaths/

Quote

Results

Compared to licensed capacity and average annual occupancy rates, excess demand from COVID-19 at the peak of the pandemic in the second week of April is predicted to be 64,175 (95% UI 7,977 to 251,059) total beds and 17,309 (95% UI 2,432 to 57,584) ICU beds. At the peak of the pandemic, ventilator use is predicted to be 19,481 (95% UI 9,767 to 39,674). The date of peak excess demand by state varies from the second week of April through May. We estimate that there will be a total of 81,114 deaths (95% UI 38,242 to 162,106) from COVID-19 over the next 4 months in the US. Deaths from COVID-19 are estimated to drop below 10 deaths per day between May 31 and June 6.


Conclusions and Relevance

In addition to a large number of deaths from COVID-19, the epidemic in the US will place a load well beyond the current capacity of hospitals to manage, especially for ICU care. These estimates can help inform the development and implementation of strategies to mitigate this gap, including reducing non-COVID-19 demand for services and temporarily increasing system capacity. These are urgently needed given that peak volumes are estimated to be only three weeks away. The estimated excess demand on hospital systems is predicated on the enactment of social distancing measures in all states that have not done so already within the next week and maintenance of these measures throughout the epidemic, emphasizing the importance of implementing, enforcing, and maintaining these measures to mitigate hospital system overload and prevent deaths.

I hope this is right and we can keep it under 100k.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 27, 2020, 04:24:22 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 27, 2020, 04:04:09 PM

Guys, we get it. There are a handful of posters who just can't reign in their disdain for Trump. There are a ton of outlets on the internet to share your mockery of him. This is not the forum for that.

And if you're going to post tweets or stories about him, at least make an attempt to share accurate summaries. This shouldn't be hard for a board full of adults.

I am pretty f*cking liberal.

And I agree with you 100%. Mods have mentioned it numerous times.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 27, 2020, 04:27:14 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 27, 2020, 04:21:35 PM

http://www.healthdata.org/research-article/forecasting-covid-19-impact-hospital-bed-days-icu-days-ventilator-days-and-deaths/

I hope this is right and we can keep it under 100k.

Keeping it under 100,000 would be nice under the circumstances...but predicted peaks by state are expected between the second week of April through May? Oof. That means we are still two weeks away from the earliest of the peaks, and will still be dealing with significant numbers of death into early summer. Yikes.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 27, 2020, 04:28:05 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 27, 2020, 04:24:22 PM

I am pretty f*cking liberal.

And I agree with you 100%. Mods have mentioned it numerous times.

Totally agree. Accurate summaries only.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 27, 2020, 04:30:36 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 27, 2020, 04:16:11 PM

FEMA reports to Secretary of Homeland Security which is a part of the President's Cabinet.

Trump has specifically stated today why he was invoking the Defense Production Act.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1243557418556162050?s=19

https://twitter.com/peterbakernyt/status/1243629529224171522?s=19

https://twitter.com/Grace_Segers/status/1243630923515670534?s=19

FEMA reporting into the cabinet doesn't mean Trump made the decision to not move forward with the initial GM proposals, though. From all the sources you shared, it sounds like FEMA wasn't confident in GM's ability to deliver on their proposals. So when FEMA made the decision to continue negotiations and vet additional vendors, Trump invoked the Defense Production Act to end the back and forth and get the process moving. I didn't see Trump backing out of negotiations because of costs mentioned anywhere.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 27, 2020, 04:31:23 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 27, 2020, 04:21:35 PM

http://www.healthdata.org/research-article/forecasting-covid-19-impact-hospital-bed-days-icu-days-ventilator-days-and-deaths/

I hope this is right and we can keep it under 100k.

From the link:

"The estimated excess demand on hospital systems is predicated on the enactment of social distancing measures in all states that have not done so already within the next week and maintenance of these measures throughout the epidemic, emphasizing the importance of implementing, enforcing, and maintaining these measures to mitigate hospital system overload and prevent deaths."

Fat chance

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 27, 2020, 04:32:42 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 27, 2020, 04:18:17 PM

Are you saying the Mayo Clinic definition of Narcissistic Personality Disorder is inaccurate? Please enlighten us.

You know damn well that's not even close to what I'm saying.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 27, 2020, 04:34:05 PM

Quote from: Coleman on March 27, 2020, 04:31:23 PM

From the link:

"The estimated excess demand on hospital systems is predicated on the enactment of social distancing measures in all states that have not done so already within the next week and maintenance of these measures throughout the epidemic, emphasizing the importance of implementing, enforcing, and maintaining these measures to mitigate hospital system overload and prevent deaths."

Fat chance

Yeah, that is a pretty optimistic assumption. It would take a 100% unified message from DC and all the governors to have a chance...and even then there are going to be people who will defy the orders.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 27, 2020, 04:37:12 PM

Confirmed cases of COVID-19 and deaths because of it still increasing here in NC.

Governor just came out with stay-at-home requirement.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 27, 2020, 04:38:52 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 27, 2020, 04:27:14 PM

Keeping it under 100,000 would be nice under the circumstances...but predicted peaks by state are expected between the second week of April through May? Oof. That means we are still two weeks away from the earliest of the peaks, and will still be dealing with significant numbers of death into early summer. Yikes.

It says number of deaths per day would shrink to under 10 by July 1st, and then decreasing down to zero. That is actually earlier than I would have thought.

The bulk of the messiness will be from April to early June.  It will vary by state. By the end of a horrific April, New York will be mostly past this. Wisconsin's wave won't hit until late May or early June.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 27, 2020, 04:39:02 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 27, 2020, 04:32:42 PM

You know damn well that's not even close to what I'm saying.

I simply posted the definition in response to another post, so that everyone could judge how relevant they feel it is to the conversation. If that objective, accurate definition isn't what you objected to, then I assume your rage was addressed at someone else.

Anyhow, I am past it, and have already made several posts about the US infection total, and the projected final death toll. Feel free to follow suit.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 27, 2020, 04:39:35 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 27, 2020, 04:27:14 PM

Keeping it under 100,000 would be nice under the circumstances...but predicted peaks by state are expected between the second week of April through May? Oof. That means we are still two weeks away from the earliest of the peaks, and will still be dealing with significant numbers of death into early summer. Yikes.

Which was/is the problem with all the patchwork decisions.  There are states which still haven't shutdown so this thing is just going to roll along. 

What we are seeing out of Italy--another very bad day in terms of deaths--I'm more and more convinced of the validity of the 23-24 day cycle from infection to resolution. Lombardy was shut down March 8th/9th, and the rest of the country not until the 13th. So they are going to face very high numbers until at least the first week of April, and then hopefully start to see the improvements from the lockdown after that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 27, 2020, 04:47:25 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 27, 2020, 04:30:36 PM

FEMA reporting into the cabinet doesn't mean Trump made the decision to not move forward with the initial GM proposals, though. From all the sources you shared, it sounds like FEMA wasn't confident in GM's ability to deliver on their proposals. So when FEMA made the decision to continue negotiations and vet additional vendors, Trump invoked the Defense Production Act to end the back and forth and get the process moving. I didn't see Trump backing out of negotiations because of costs mentioned anywhere.

“It sounds like” is a frequent phrase from you when you manufacture your own conclusions which tend to be in a very consistent way. Trump has spent a great deal of time today, yesterday l, etc...lamenting the high cost of ventilators. They backed out over costs not questioned inability to deliver the goods. Trump specifically said he wants GM to make them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 27, 2020, 04:52:07 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 27, 2020, 04:47:25 PM

“It sounds like” is a frequent phrase from you when you manufacture your own conclusions which tend to be in a very consistent way. Trump has spent a great deal of time today, yesterday l, etc...lamenting the high cost of ventilators. They backed out over costs not questioned inability to deliver the goods. Trump specifically said he wants GM to make them.

It sounds like I was right about negotiations with FEMA not going well and Trump wanting to expedite the process.  ;)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 27, 2020, 04:53:38 PM

DPA should have been invoked 2 weeks ago (or more like 1 month ago). At least for masks, gloves, gowns, other PPE, let alone ventilators

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on March 27, 2020, 04:58:24 PM

I didn't see this on here, but this article on how Dyson designed a production-ready ventilator in ten days was posted by a super-lefty Facebook friend of mine.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/26/tech/dyson-ventilators-coronavirus/index.html


I didn't have the heart to tell her that she has capitalism to thank for that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 27, 2020, 05:03:21 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on March 27, 2020, 04:58:24 PM

I didn't see this on here, but this article on how Dyson designed a production-ready ventilator in ten days was posted by a super-lefty Facebook friend of mine.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/26/tech/dyson-ventilators-coronavirus/index.html


I didn't have the heart to tell her that she has capitalism to thank for that.

Oh silly, us leftys like capitalism, just not unregulated disaster capitalism.

In other potentially good news--an oldie but goody, mentioned here previously, using the anti-bodies of recovered patients.  Tiny, tiny study, but this technique has been around for ever.

Treatment of 5 Critically Ill Patients With COVID-19 With Convalescent Plasma
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2763983?utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=content-shareicons&utm_content=article_engagement&utm_medium=social&utm_term=032720#.Xn5LBtcTflo.twitter

Findings  In this uncontrolled case series of 5 critically ill patients with COVID-19 and acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS), administration of convalescent plasma containing neutralizing antibody was followed by an improvement in clinical status.

Meaning  These preliminary findings raise the possibility that convalescent plasma transfusion may be helpful in the treatment of critically ill patients with COVID-19 and ARDS, but this approach requires evaluation in randomized clinical trials.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 27, 2020, 05:13:08 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 27, 2020, 05:03:21 PM

In other potentially good news--an oldie but goody, mentioned here previously, using the anti-bodies of recovered patients.  Tiny, tiny study, but this technique has been around for ever.

Treatment of 5 Critically Ill Patients With COVID-19 With Convalescent Plasma
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2763983?utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=content-shareicons&utm_content=article_engagement&utm_medium=social&utm_term=032720#.Xn5LBtcTflo.twitter

Findings  In this uncontrolled case series of 5 critically ill patients with COVID-19 and acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS), administration of convalescent plasma containing neutralizing antibody was followed by an improvement in clinical status.

Meaning  These preliminary findings raise the possibility that convalescent plasma transfusion may be helpful in the treatment of critically ill patients with COVID-19 and ARDS, but this approach requires evaluation in randomized clinical trials.

Yep. It'll take a while, but Mayo, Johns Hopkins and others are working with Amazon Web Services to look into this as a therapeutic option for COVID-19.

https://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/news/2020/03/24/mayo-clinic-amazon-join-project-to-fight-covid-19.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 27, 2020, 05:14:10 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 27, 2020, 04:52:07 PM

It sounds like I was right about negotiations with FEMA not going well and Trump wanting to expedite the process.  ;)

And of course you were wrong (again) as to why negotiations weren’t going well, and, that Trump wanted to expedite the process. He could have invoked the Defense Production Act weeks and weeks and weeks ago when it was suggested and requested by many. I must have missed that part in your post.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 27, 2020, 05:20:16 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 27, 2020, 05:14:10 PM

And of course you were wrong (again) as to why negotiations weren’t going well, and, that Trump wanted to expedite the process. He could have invoked the Defense Production Act weeks and weeks and weeks ago when it was suggested and requested by many. I must have missed that part in your post.

I agree he could have and probably should have invoked it sooner. He's a very pro-business guy and probably wanted to show that businesses would step up on their own without being forced to do so by Uncle Sam. That didn't work out, and it ended up costing us precious time.

I'm still sticking by my comments on the reason the conversations weren't going well, based on the sources you shared, which did seem to cover the story pretty well. And in all seriousness, the reason why so many of my posts have phrases like "I think" or "it sounds like" or something similar are because I fully acknowledge that I don't know all the details. I can read a few articles to get myself familiar with a situation, but any conclusion I draw is still pretty likely to not include all the real facts. So to me, based on what I read, it does sound like FEMA played a big role in not wanting to commit to GM. I'm not being snarky with that, I'm honestly saying that's how I've interpreted the sources you've shared. I even shared the quotes that stood out to me as being the most important in the coverage.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 27, 2020, 05:30:54 PM

Yah capitalism!

Coronavirus: Teenage boy whose death was linked to COVID-19 turned away from urgent care for not having insurance
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/coronavirus-teenager-death-california-health-insurance-care-emergency-room-covid-19-a9429946.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 27, 2020, 05:36:30 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 27, 2020, 05:20:16 PM

I agree he could have and probably should have invoked it sooner. He's a very pro-business guy and probably wanted to show that businesses would step up on their own without being forced to do so by Uncle Sam. That didn't work out, and it ended up costing us precious time.

I'm still sticking by my comments on the reason the conversations weren't going well, based on the sources you shared, which did seem to cover the story pretty well. And in all seriousness, the reason why so many of my posts have phrases like "I think" or "it sounds like" or something similar are because I fully acknowledge that I don't know all the details. I can read a few articles to get myself familiar with a situation, but any conclusion I draw is still pretty likely to not include all the real facts. So to me, based on what I read, it does sound like FEMA played a big role in not wanting to commit to GM. I'm not being snarky with that, I'm honestly saying that's how I've interpreted the sources you've shared. I even shared the quotes that stood out to me as being the most important in the coverage.

More spin than Rafa Nadal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 27, 2020, 05:41:24 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on March 27, 2020, 04:58:24 PM

I didn't see this on here, but this article on how Dyson designed a production-ready ventilator in ten days was posted by a super-lefty Facebook friend of mine.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/26/tech/dyson-ventilators-coronavirus/index.html


I didn't have the heart to tell her that she has capitalism to thank for that.

What an incredibly ignorant statement.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: skianth16 on March 27, 2020, 05:44:08 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 27, 2020, 05:36:30 PM

More spin than Rafa Nadal.

I read your sources and shared the quotes from those sources that helped form my position. If you feel like that's spin, then I guess we'll agree to disagree. No biggie.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 27, 2020, 05:48:45 PM

I know many of you here don’t realize this, but what has been at times, a pretty decent and informed thread, there are so many here who have successfully turned this back into the once “forbidden politics” such that it has probably turned away some very informed opinions, knowledge and additions to a constructive debate. 

  Those of you who are continuing to use this to “kick the cat” from the outcome of one November 3 2016 are driving a lot of good people, thus good contributions to this topic

Although I have peeked behind the curtain here from time to time, trying to add my thoughts and observations, the few political jabs I have added were to try to balance some of the innuendo here.  My bad, as I get caught up into the trap of a one legged man in an ass kicking contest.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 27, 2020, 05:50:15 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 27, 2020, 05:03:21 PM

Oh silly, us leftys like capitalism, just not unregulated disaster capitalism.

In other potentially good news--an oldie but goody, mentioned here previously, using the anti-bodies of recovered patients.  Tiny, tiny study, but this technique has been around for ever.

Treatment of 5 Critically Ill Patients With COVID-19 With Convalescent Plasma
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2763983?utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=content-shareicons&utm_content=article_engagement&utm_medium=social&utm_term=032720#.Xn5LBtcTflo.twitter

Findings  In this uncontrolled case series of 5 critically ill patients with COVID-19 and acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS), administration of convalescent plasma containing neutralizing antibody was followed by an improvement in clinical status.

Meaning  These preliminary findings raise the possibility that convalescent plasma transfusion may be helpful in the treatment of critically ill patients with COVID-19 and ARDS, but this approach requires evaluation in randomized clinical trials.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.21.990770v1.full.pdf

I posted this earlier today. But I like this a lot in regards to progress to a cure/treatment. The combination of these two says that, antibody treatment can work, and we have a library of antibodies we can screen through to see which work best. The advantage is that these antibodies can be prepared commercially, on large scale, for widespread usage worldwide, without requiring plasma from cured individuals.

This could be ready for patients in 6-months, China may be able to do it in 3.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 27, 2020, 06:14:58 PM

Quote from: skianth16 on March 27, 2020, 05:44:08 PM

I read your sources and shared the quotes from those sources that helped form my position. If you feel like that's spin, then I guess we'll agree to disagree. No biggie.

Opinions are something of which people can agree or disagree. Facts (on several topics) are not. Muddy the waters just enough. If you feel like, sounds like, no biggie.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 27, 2020, 06:35:29 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 27, 2020, 05:48:45 PM

I know many of you here don’t realize this, but what has been at times, a pretty decent and informed thread, there are so many here who have successfully turned this back into the once “forbidden politics” such that it has probably turned away some very informed opinions, knowledge and additions to a constructive debate. 

I agree.  And frankly, I we (it's not just me) don't have the time to moderate it all.  So folks, please stop.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 27, 2020, 06:55:41 PM

I’m confused. When people in a position of authority said stupid and completely probably  false we shouldn’t comment as it is political?
Seems facts are now a partisan thing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 27, 2020, 06:59:39 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on March 27, 2020, 04:58:24 PM

I didn't see this on here, but this article on how Dyson designed a production-ready ventilator in ten days was posted by a super-lefty Facebook friend of mine.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/26/tech/dyson-ventilators-coronavirus/index.html


I didn't have the heart to tell her that she has capitalism to thank for that.

"If he dies, he dies." -Ivan Drago 1985

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Spaniel with a Short Tail on March 27, 2020, 07:27:22 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 27, 2020, 08:34:05 AM

I've thought the same. Both Trump and Pence have been unbelievably lucky after multiple exposures and I don't know if Biden has confirmed exposure but sounds like Rand Paul made sure every Senator did. Have to imagine the luck would run out as the schedule got more and more intense with meetings and events

My money's on DJT getting it first, followed shortly thereafter by his cabinet and GOP leadership team.

(http://freedomslighthouse.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/trumpsigning1001.jpg)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on March 27, 2020, 07:41:30 PM

Scott Gottlieb, MD
@ScottGottliebMD
·
13m
This is GAME CHANGER. Abbott to market, starting next week, a fast point-of-care #coronavirus test, delivering positive results in 5min and negative results in 13min. Will deliver 50K tests/day to start. Kudos to Abbott and FDA’s Jeff Shuren and team at CDRH who are in the fight.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 27, 2020, 08:26:33 PM

Quote from: muguru on March 27, 2020, 07:41:30 PM

Scott Gottlieb, MD
@ScottGottliebMD
·
13m
This is GAME CHANGER. Abbott to market, starting next week, a fast point-of-care #coronavirus test, delivering positive results in 5min and negative results in 13min. Will deliver 50K tests/day to start. Kudos to Abbott and FDA’s Jeff Shuren and team at CDRH who are in the fight.

That's huge

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 27, 2020, 09:03:57 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on March 27, 2020, 06:55:41 PM

I’m confused. When people in a position of authority said stupid and completely probably  false we shouldn’t comment as it is political?
Seems facts are now a partisan thing.

I know you're not dumb, but you're missing the point.  We've allowed plenty of commentary on politicians and how they've handled it.  But let me quote a couple things from the past few pages that weren't necessary and went too far...

Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 27, 2020, 04:08:20 PM

Y'all get yo chance in November ta vote yea or nay. Dat's democracy and dat's da way wee do it here. God bless America, aina?

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 27, 2020, 03:57:37 PM

It's a symptom and actions of someone with Severe Narcissistic Disorder Syndrome.

There are several stories about it over the last 3 years from The Atlantic.  When I locate I will share.

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 27, 2020, 03:56:34 PM

We have fallen so far that nobody is even surprised.

He had normalized appalling conduct to the point where everyone views it as just "Trump being Trump."

Quote from: GB Warrior on March 27, 2020, 02:20:23 PM

This was how it was always going to end. Blame blue state governors for the issues.

Trump operates in colors. These are blue states, brown people.

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 27, 2020, 01:41:16 PM

That's my guess. We would either learn about it as he was on his deathbed, or after he recovered.

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 27, 2020, 01:13:06 PM

No.

Or Yes and his greatness would defeat the virus in his body.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on March 27, 2020, 09:15:18 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 27, 2020, 04:27:14 PM

Keeping it under 100,000 would be nice under the circumstances..

If by “circumstances” you mean earlier predictions that 180 million American would be infected and the death rate was north of 3%, yeah. Under 100,000 is much better than 5.4 million.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 27, 2020, 09:18:35 PM

Quote from: muguru on March 27, 2020, 07:41:30 PM

Scott Gottlieb, MD
@ScottGottliebMD
·
13m
This is GAME CHANGER. Abbott to market, starting next week, a fast point-of-care #coronavirus test, delivering positive results in 5min and negative results in 13min. Will deliver 50K tests/day to start. Kudos to Abbott and FDA’s Jeff Shuren and team at CDRH who are in the fight.

Well done guru, great source.  Gottlieb is an awesome dude!

Just so there is no confusion, I am being 100% honest.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 27, 2020, 09:19:47 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 27, 2020, 09:15:18 PM

If by “circumstances” you mean earlier predictions that 180 million American would be infected and the death rate was north of 3%, yeah. Under 100,000 is much better than 5.4 million.

Well that many may get infected, but at least not all at once.  We can deal with people better when its not all at once!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 27, 2020, 09:29:29 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 27, 2020, 06:35:29 PM

I agree.  And frankly, I we (it's not just me) don't have the time to moderate it all.  So folks, please stop.

thank you's where thank you's are due!  and yes, it's very easy for a busy thread to progress(used lightly)beyond ones ability to keep up, especially when many of us have another life.  not trying to "suck up" but with all the "extra" time on hand, this board has been a very busy place and the mods jobs are probably akin to lunch time at arby's eyn'a?
 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 27, 2020, 09:35:56 PM

In other news 400 people died today in America.  Up nearly 50% from yesterday. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 27, 2020, 09:37:57 PM

but seriously...let a career criminal who "allegedly" murdered his girlfriend on june 2018 so he doesn't get sick?  but lock down everyone else.  someone please 'splain to me how this is going to help in any way?  why would this guy be more safe, which i could really care less, but i digress, out of rikers?  except for the fact that prisons, much less rikers, are "safe".   hows about we keep are law abiding people safe first, then worry about this scum.  remember, he is a career criminal.  i don't think he knows how to "behave" himself out in society 

https://nypost.com/2020/03/27/nyc-judge-frees-alleged-murderer-out-of-concern-hell-catch-coronavirus/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on March 27, 2020, 09:51:02 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 27, 2020, 09:19:47 PM

Well that many may get infected, but at least not all at once.  We can deal with people better when its not all at once!

I get that and agree totally. Spreading out the number is important. But when all is said and done I doubt very much that an infection rate of 50% or a fatality rate of 3.4% will be remotely close to true.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 27, 2020, 11:11:11 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 27, 2020, 09:51:02 PM

I get that and agree totally. Spreading out the number is important. But when all is said and done I doubt very much that an infection rate of 50% or a fatality rate of 3.4% will be remotely close to true.

Let's hope not.

However many it will be, though, it will be too many.

Still on the rise in many, many parts of the country, including mine.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on March 28, 2020, 12:47:39 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 27, 2020, 09:51:02 PM

I get that and agree totally. Spreading out the number is important. But when all is said and done I doubt very much that an infection rate of 50% or a fatality rate of 3.4% will be remotely close to true.

I believe the mortality rate is much much lower then advertised. The virus is more wide spread then reported. How much more remains to be seen, but I'm guessing 7/10 people who get it don't even know it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 28, 2020, 07:02:59 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 27, 2020, 09:18:35 PM

Well done guru, great source.  Gottlieb is an awesome dude!

Just so there is no confusion, I am being 100% honest.

As long as it's not Doug Gottlieb reporting.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 28, 2020, 07:20:04 AM

I haven't slept so well the last two weeks.  Somewhat explanation why people are edgier and salty lately.

---

The Reason You Are Exhausted Is Moral Fatigue
Every small decision feels like it carries the weight of life and death and it's starting to take a toll

By ELIZABETH YUKO

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/corona-exhausted-moral-fatigue-974311/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 28, 2020, 07:58:15 AM

A week or two back, the State Dept suspended routine visas, ostensibly to stop Mexicans from spreading COVID-19.

Well, with farmers suffering from a severe shortage of laborers, the State Dept reversed course yesterday.

https://www.fb.org/newsroom/state-department-clears-the-way-for-agriculture-workforce

I guess we are not as worried about evil Mexicans spreading the virus when they are needed to do the cruddy jobs that Americans refuse to do.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 28, 2020, 08:37:35 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 28, 2020, 07:20:04 AM

I haven't slept so well the last two weeks.  Somewhat explanation why people are edgier and salty lately.

Yes. The pandemic has given us a new 800lb. gorilla to worry about, and it's coming at us from both sides. On the one is the very real possibility that we or a loved one could face a potentially deadly health crisis. On the other are new financial stresses, whether in the form of shrinking 401(k) balances, job uncertainty, or loss of a business. And at this point, even if our leaders make all the right decisions and the public follows all the guidelines, it's gonna get worse before it gets better.

The stress has gotten to me and sometimes manifested in aggressive comments, and for that I apologize. And I forgive those who have done likewise.

A few resources I am looking closely at, and which may help others: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prepare/managing-stress-anxiety.html

Peace

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 28, 2020, 09:00:10 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 27, 2020, 01:40:56 PM

Is the implication here that Trump is mad at some governors and telling private companies to not help those states??

https://twitter.com/HouseJudiciary/status/1202271057253687297?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 28, 2020, 09:02:01 AM

Quote from: injuryBug on March 27, 2020, 02:30:29 PM

good stuff well worth the 10 minutes

Yes it is. I encourage anyone to watch the brief Dr. Fauci interview, very informative.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 28, 2020, 09:14:03 AM

Live look at a bus terminal in India today:

https://twitter.com/ShivAroor/status/1243893691657437186?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on March 28, 2020, 09:31:51 AM

Quote from: muguru on March 27, 2020, 07:41:30 PM

Scott Gottlieb, MD
@ScottGottliebMD
·
13m
This is GAME CHANGER. Abbott to market, starting next week, a fast point-of-care #coronavirus test, delivering positive results in 5min and negative results in 13min. Will deliver 50K tests/day to start. Kudos to Abbott and FDA’s Jeff Shuren and team at CDRH who are in the fight.

Seriously big news. This, along with titer tests to determine who has already recovered and is immune, is what is needed for all Americans. Only way we have enough information to even think about resuming some semblance of normal life.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 28, 2020, 09:32:16 AM

https://twitter.com/PodSaveAmerica/status/1243669716872253440?s=19

That seems... Problematic

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Johnny B on March 28, 2020, 09:35:07 AM

Quote from: GB Warrior on March 28, 2020, 09:31:51 AM

Seriously big news. This, along with titer tests to determine who has already recovered and is immune, is what is needed for all Americans. Only way we have enough information to even think about resuming some semblance of normal life.

Are we not currently living "some semblance of normal life" rn

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 28, 2020, 10:02:23 AM

Examining the largest percent increase of cases this past week in U.S., which is in Missouri, 600%. (increased testing, but still behind, as well as the nation's 2nd largest annual Mardi Gras party in Feb. In Stl
They have been doing the stay at home there for about two weeks now in the larger urban areas of the state)

https://www.stltoday.com/business/local/missouri-is-us-steepest-jump-in-coronavirus-cases-where-is/article_3b3ad75f-a5c8-5457-abaa-9adc9e68f168.amp.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=user-share&__twitter_impression=true

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 28, 2020, 10:09:44 AM

Quote from: Johnny B on March 28, 2020, 09:35:07 AM

Are we not currently living "some semblance of normal life" rn

If you are, you’re doing it wrong.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 28, 2020, 10:12:08 AM

https://medium.com/@CynicalXennial/unmasking-the-truth-cdc-and-hospital-administrators-are-endangering-us-all-b601012f81be

We are failing our doctors and nurses.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on March 28, 2020, 10:24:53 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 28, 2020, 09:14:03 AM

Live look at a bus terminal in India today:

https://twitter.com/ShivAroor/status/1243893691657437186?s=19

Herd immunity is the only thing that will work there. Between the population density, physical nature of the culture, and general disregard for rules or regulations that is pervasive in the culture, social distancing and lockdown would never work. It’s unfortunate but it’s reality

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Johnny B on March 28, 2020, 10:28:32 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on March 28, 2020, 10:09:44 AM

If you are, you’re doing it wrong.

Lol ok

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 28, 2020, 10:35:51 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on March 28, 2020, 10:24:53 AM

Herd immunity is the only thing that will work there. Between the population density, physical nature of the culture, and general disregard for rules or regulations that is pervasive in the culture, social distancing and lockdown would never work. It’s unfortunate but it’s reality

To be fair, what you are seeing at that Bus terminal are migrant workers trying to get home after they shut everything down.

That mass of people are those that are poor, and have to go to large cities to find work, so they can send money home to the family. Now they were stranded, with no work, no where to stay, and are desperately trying to get back to their families.

Here is another sad story of the plight the migrant workers are in.

https://www.france24.com/en/20200328-stranded-by-virus-lockdown-india-migrant-workers-walk-home

How many of these migrants now forced to walk will likely die, with no food, shelter, or other resources along their route.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 28, 2020, 11:19:19 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 28, 2020, 09:32:16 AM

https://twitter.com/PodSaveAmerica/status/1243669716872253440?s=19

That seems... Problematic

Way, way, way more than problematic.

Michigan governor says vendors have been told not to send supplies to Michigan. Trump has publicly said he ordered Pence not to call the Michigan governor.

If true, my friends, that is petty, criminal behavior bordering on outright murder.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on March 28, 2020, 11:31:13 AM

Quote from: forgetful on March 28, 2020, 10:35:51 AM

To be fair, what you are seeing at that Bus terminal are migrant workers trying to get home after they shut everything down.

That mass of people are those that are poor, and have to go to large cities to find work, so they can send money home to the family. Now they were stranded, with no work, no where to stay, and are desperately trying to get back to their families.

Here is another sad story of the plight the migrant workers are in.

https://www.france24.com/en/20200328-stranded-by-virus-lockdown-india-migrant-workers-walk-home

How many of these migrants now forced to walk will likely die, with no food, shelter, or other resources along their route.

I understand and it’s very unfortunate. But my point remains. I don’t see how they ever execute it properly in somewhere like Mumbai. It’s the density and issues of Wuhan, but without the draconian hand of the CCP

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 28, 2020, 11:46:33 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on March 28, 2020, 11:31:13 AM

I understand and it’s very unfortunate. But my point remains. I don’t see how they ever execute it properly in somewhere like Mumbai. It’s the density and issues of Wuhan, but without the draconian hand of the CCP

Violence, unfortunately.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HutchwasClutch on March 28, 2020, 12:01:40 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 28, 2020, 11:19:19 AM

Way, way, way more than problematic.

Michigan governor says vendors have been told not to send supplies to Michigan. Trump has publicly said he ordered Pence not to call the Michigan governor.

If true, my friends, that is petty, criminal behavior bordering on outright murder.

Well sadly I'm sure for the small group that is the liberal echo chamber here, it isn't true-

https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2020/03/trump-approves-michigan-disaster-declaration-whitmer-says-more-supplies-on-the-way-in-coronavirus-fight.html

https://twitter.com/GovWhitmer/status/1243897197747408897

Sorry your narrative is ruined. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 28, 2020, 12:15:13 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on March 28, 2020, 11:31:13 AM

I understand and it’s very unfortunate. But my point remains. I don’t see how they ever execute it properly in somewhere like Mumbai. It’s the density and issues of Wuhan, but without the draconian hand of the CCP

Got it. I thought you may have thought that was business as normal, and they weren't taking measures to reduce the spread.

I do wonder what the real situation in India is like. They are not doing testing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 28, 2020, 12:38:14 PM

I fear we are going to see a larger death-rate in the US than China, hopefully not as bad as Spain and Italy.

The reason, we can't handle the sick. One of the reasons China was able to both mitigate the spread and limit the death rates, is that they tested widely, and isolated the sick within the medical care system (right away). That allowed them to monitor their condition, and limit spread.

In Italy and Spain, they can't do that, and are instead sending people to isolate at home. This doesn't allow them to monitor their conditions, so when the virus ramps up, they don't have time to treat it, and it continues community spread.

Germany, where things have been comparatively better, has more nurses per capita than any of the nations, so they can care for and monitor patients right away. That so far has led to a lower mortality rate, despite them having one of the highest rates of smoking in the world.

Right now, we are leaning toward the Italy/Spain model, but with more testing. Sadly, that means the likely outcome is a higher mortality rate, just not as bad as Italy/Spain, because we are testing more.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 28, 2020, 12:42:57 PM

Sorry if this has been posted, but I didn't see it.

Trump considering "quarantine" of NY/NJ/Conn area.

https://nypost.com/2020/03/28/trump-says-hes-new-eyeing-coronavirus-quarantine-for-nyc-area/

No details, but what - maybe shutting down all points of entry/exit? Wow.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 28, 2020, 12:57:00 PM

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on March 28, 2020, 12:01:40 PM

Well sadly I'm sure for the small group that is the liberal echo chamber here, it isn't true-

https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2020/03/trump-approves-michigan-disaster-declaration-whitmer-says-more-supplies-on-the-way-in-coronavirus-fight.html

https://twitter.com/GovWhitmer/status/1243897197747408897

Sorry your narrative is ruined.

Go back and watch the press conference yesterday. Trump said he ordered Pence to not call the Michigan gov. If you don't wanna believe your eyes and ears, then nevermind.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 28, 2020, 01:19:53 PM

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on March 28, 2020, 12:01:40 PM

Well sadly I'm sure for the small group that is the liberal echo chamber here, it isn't true-

https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2020/03/trump-approves-michigan-disaster-declaration-whitmer-says-more-supplies-on-the-way-in-coronavirus-fight.html

https://twitter.com/GovWhitmer/status/1243897197747408897

Sorry your narrative is ruined.

Thanks. Glad resources are making it to where they're needed. That's all that really matters

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Lens on March 28, 2020, 02:43:58 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 28, 2020, 12:57:00 PM

Go back and watch the press conference yesterday. Trump said he ordered Pence to not call the Michigan gov. If you don't wanna believe your eyes and ears, then nevermind.

No shock that he says one thing and does the other.  It's just unfortunate that he feels the need to take those shots.  Just handle it.  No commentary is necessary.  It does not to help the situation.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 28, 2020, 03:50:14 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 28, 2020, 12:38:14 PM

I fear we are going to see a larger death-rate in the US than China, hopefully not as bad as Spain and Italy.

The reason, we can't handle the sick. One of the reasons China was able to both mitigate the spread and limit the death rates, is that they tested widely, and isolated the sick within the medical care system (right away). That allowed them to monitor their condition, and limit spread.

In Italy and Spain, they can't do that, and are instead sending people to isolate at home. This doesn't allow them to monitor their conditions, so when the virus ramps up, they don't have time to treat it, and it continues community spread.

Germany, where things have been comparatively better, has more nurses per capita than any of the nations, so they can care for and monitor patients right away. That so far has led to a lower mortality rate, despite them having one of the highest rates of smoking in the world.

Right now, we are leaning toward the Italy/Spain model, but with more testing. Sadly, that means the likely outcome is a higher mortality rate, just not as bad as Italy/Spain, because we are testing more.

We will never really know the truth of #infected and deaths.  If you think China is going to be forthright with this.... ask them where they get all those extra kidneys and livers from  not the the Muslim detention camps of (political) prisoners, nooo don’t look over here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 28, 2020, 04:00:19 PM

I live in Racine. Still no tests available - even for those with symptoms.


This has been bungled from Day 1.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 28, 2020, 04:06:42 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 28, 2020, 04:00:19 PM

I live in Racine. Still no tests available - even for those with symptoms.


This has been bungled from Day 1.

Really?  Oh geez you just might have to drive a couple of miles up the road to pleasant prairie.  What the hell did you expect?  Door to door testing ?

https://www.kenoshanews.com/news/local/drive-thru-testing-site-established-for-coronavirus/article_e8cfb27d-d1a4-5e41-9313-dbc84bfe0e5d.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 28, 2020, 04:18:14 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 28, 2020, 04:06:42 PM

Really?  Oh geez you just might have to drive a couple of miles up the road to pleasant prairie.  What the hell did you expect?  Door to door testing ?

https://www.kenoshanews.com/news/local/drive-thru-testing-site-established-for-coronavirus/article_e8cfb27d-d1a4-5e41-9313-dbc84bfe0e5d.html

Why do that when it's more fun to just complain about everything OMB is doing wrong?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 28, 2020, 04:21:06 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 28, 2020, 12:42:57 PM

Sorry if this has been posted, but I didn't see it.

Trump considering "quarantine" of NY/NJ/Conn area.

https://nypost.com/2020/03/28/trump-says-hes-new-eyeing-coronavirus-quarantine-for-nyc-area/

No details, but what - maybe shutting down all points of entry/exit? Wow.

Wall.

And Pennsylvania will pay for it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on March 28, 2020, 04:23:28 PM

Nah man, Evers did fook dis all up, aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 28, 2020, 04:34:12 PM

My wife heard from our friend who is an X-ray tech at Yale New Haven Hospital. They are completely out of masks in the hospital and disenfectant wipes.  Sterilizing masks every night and reudsing the next day.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 28, 2020, 04:37:50 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 28, 2020, 04:34:12 PM

My wife heard from our friend who is an X-ray tech at Yale New Haven Hospital. They are completely out of masks in the hospital and disenfectant wipes.  Sterilizing masks every night and reudsing the next day.

There were hospitals in NYC that ran out entirely, in part because people broke into storage closets and stole them.

Doctors and nurses were having to work without masks. My friend, a doctor, may now be infected in NY, because of a lack of PPE.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 28, 2020, 04:42:37 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 28, 2020, 04:06:42 PM

Really?  Oh geez you just might have to drive a couple of miles up the road to pleasant prairie.  What the hell did you expect?  Door to door testing ?

https://www.kenoshanews.com/news/local/drive-thru-testing-site-established-for-coronavirus/article_e8cfb27d-d1a4-5e41-9313-dbc84bfe0e5d.html

It's not a couple of miles, but I think the point is that medical providers are doing what they can to erect these things quickly.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 28, 2020, 04:44:19 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 28, 2020, 04:06:42 PM

Really?  Oh geez you just might have to drive a couple of miles up the road to pleasant prairie.  What the hell did you expect?  Door to door testing ?

https://www.kenoshanews.com/news/local/drive-thru-testing-site-established-for-coronavirus/article_e8cfb27d-d1a4-5e41-9313-dbc84bfe0e5d.html

To be fair, part of how China eradicated this was doing exactly that, mandatory door to door testing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 28, 2020, 05:46:47 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 28, 2020, 04:34:12 PM

My wife heard from our friend who is an X-ray tech at Yale New Haven Hospital. They are completely out of masks in the hospital and disenfectant wipes.  Sterilizing masks every night and reudsing the next day.

I think you are wrong. 4never and Ziggy will tell you everything is available.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 28, 2020, 05:48:56 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 28, 2020, 04:44:19 PM

To be fair, part of how China eradicated this was doing exactly that, mandatory door to door testing.

Exactly.

But these guys are clueless. If I start getting symptoms, I cannot get a test in the Racine - Kenosha area.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 28, 2020, 05:59:42 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 28, 2020, 05:48:56 PM

Exactly.

But these guys are clueless. If I start getting symptoms, I cannot get a test in the Racine - Kenosha area.

In sheboygan area you need to have bad symptoms that are worsening before they advise you to call the hotline to get to a testing center.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 28, 2020, 06:28:12 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 28, 2020, 05:46:47 PM

I think you are wrong. 4never and Ziggy will tell you everything is available.

It's all in Pleasant Prairie.  Testing supplies for the whole country.  This is Jockey's big chance to be come an American Hero, a Real American Hero in the mold of John Wayne, Superman or The Rock.  Alas, the trek from Racine to Pleasant Prairie proved to be too daunting of a task for our erstwhile hero, and Super Jockey was swept into the dustbin of history, consigned to spend eternity in his childhood basement, as Ma and Pa shelter in place on the main level of the would be lair.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 28, 2020, 06:52:19 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 28, 2020, 05:48:56 PM

Exactly.

But these guys are clueless. If I start getting symptoms, I cannot get a test in the Racine - Kenosha area.

Clueless??  Racine/kenosha area?  Could someone please walk jock thru google maps and plug in pleasant prairie...it’s 17 miles from Racine!  Could probably walk there if he had to save his carbon foot print

What part of that is clueless?  Just trying to help

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 28, 2020, 07:24:01 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 28, 2020, 06:28:12 PM

It's all in Pleasant Prairie.  Testing supplies for the whole country.  This is Jockey's big chance to be come an American Hero, a Real American Hero in the mold of John Wayne, Superman or The Rock.  Alas, the trek from Racine to Pleasant Prairie proved to be too daunting of a task for our erstwhile hero, and Super Jockey was swept into the dustbin of history, consigned to spend eternity in his childhood basement, as Ma and Pa shelter in place on the main level of the would be lair.

For the whole country? 350 million sitting in se Wisconsin? And you wonder why people dismiss your idiocy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 28, 2020, 07:44:32 PM

I hope this isn't real, but Floriduh…

https://twitter.com/travisakers/status/1243990179557359616?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1243990179557359616&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.democraticunderground.com%2F100213192641
 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 28, 2020, 07:46:17 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on March 28, 2020, 07:24:01 PM

For the whole country? 350 million sitting in se Wisconsin? And you wonder why people dismiss your idiocy.

yes, the whole country.  And super jockey is the hero we need. 

look up, pal, that sarcasm just went straight over your head.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 28, 2020, 07:53:24 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 28, 2020, 07:46:17 PM

yes, the whole country.  And super jockey is the hero we need. 

look up, pal, that sarcasm just went straight over your head.

Sorry if I didn’t catch it. Thought you were part of the group that believes anyone that wants to get tested can.
I can attest that is a flat out lie.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 28, 2020, 07:55:03 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 28, 2020, 07:44:32 PM

I hope this isn't real, but Floriduh…

https://twitter.com/travisakers/status/1243990179557359616?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1243990179557359616&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.democraticunderground.com%2F100213192641

That is true. Our governor doesn’t believe in statewide bans on almost anything.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 28, 2020, 08:51:32 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 28, 2020, 07:46:17 PM

yes, the whole country.  And super jockey is the hero we need. 

look up, pal, that sarcasm just went straight over your head.

First off, there is no testing in Pleasant Prairie after tomorrow - it is at the old KMH in downtown Kenosha.

Second, if I (or anyone else) have symptoms, I cannot get a test.

Third, to get a test, you have to be extremely ill. So, no, not everyone can get a test.

Fourth, lying to protect Deat Leader is never a good idea. You can say that everyone can get tested, but almost everyone on this board knows it is false.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on March 28, 2020, 08:56:53 PM

Trump threatens to quarantine NewYork and several other states.  Cuomo calls it Anti-American and Anti-Social, threatens legal action against the Feds.  So much for those demanding a federal quarantine when states threaten to sue, even those most in need of that action.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/604376/andrew-cuomo-new-york-coroanvirus-slams-donald-trump/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 28, 2020, 08:59:48 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on March 28, 2020, 07:55:03 PM

That is true. Our governor doesn’t believe in statewide bans on almost anything.

And our governor channeling his inner hate for first amendment, have banned a couple reporters from attending his news conferences. They weren’t nice to him. Sound familiar?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 28, 2020, 09:15:04 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on March 28, 2020, 08:56:53 PM

Trump threatens to quarantine NewYork and several other states.  Cuomo calls it Anti-American and Anti-Social, threatens legal action against the Feds.  So much for those demanding a federal quarantine when states threaten to sue, even those most in need of that action.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/604376/andrew-cuomo-new-york-coroanvirus-slams-donald-trump/

Well there is a lot of questions about the legality of that. And a federal quarantine would mean shutting everything down.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on March 28, 2020, 09:18:14 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 28, 2020, 12:38:14 PM

I fear we are going to see a larger death-rate in the US than China, hopefully not as bad as Spain and Italy.

The reason, we can't handle the sick. One of the reasons China was able to both mitigate the spread and limit the death rates, is that they tested widely, and isolated the sick within the medical care system (right away). That allowed them to monitor their condition, and limit spread.

In Italy and Spain, they can't do that, and are instead sending people to isolate at home. This doesn't allow them to monitor their conditions, so when the virus ramps up, they don't have time to treat it, and it continues community spread.

Germany, where things have been comparatively better, has more nurses per capita than any of the nations, so they can care for and monitor patients right away. That so far has led to a lower mortality rate, despite them having one of the highest rates of smoking in the world.

Right now, we are leaning toward the Italy/Spain model, but with more testing. Sadly, that means the likely outcome is a higher mortality rate, just not as bad as Italy/Spain, because we are testing more.

I cannot believe you trust China’s numbers.  Story today showed many times the runs delivered to hospitals than deaths reported.  No way our death rate will be higher than China if the real numbers are used.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on March 28, 2020, 09:21:02 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 28, 2020, 09:15:04 PM

Well there is a lot of questions about the legality of that. And a federal quarantine would mean shutting everything down.

Which is why those demanding that action do not have all the correct information at their disposal.  Everyone is an expert at the moment in a situation this country has never faced before in these conditions.  By that I mean air travel, car, products shipped overnight, freedom of movement and international exposure within hours.  This is new territory, but the blame game by all sides is sickening.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 28, 2020, 09:28:12 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on March 28, 2020, 09:21:02 PM

Which is why those demanding that action do not have all the correct information at their disposal.  Everyone is an expert at the moment in a situation this country has never faced before in these conditions.  By that I mean air travel, car, products shipped overnight, freedom of movement and international exposure within hours.  This is new territory, but the blame game by all sides is sickening.

Lol.

Ok Cheeks...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 28, 2020, 09:45:35 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on March 28, 2020, 09:18:14 PM

I cannot believe you trust China’s numbers.  Story today showed many times the runs delivered to hospitals than deaths reported.  No way our death rate will be higher than China if the real numbers are used.

Many of their own people don’t believe it either cuz they know if they ask the wrong questions, they could end up like dr #1 or in jail or both. So just shut up and help support your local wet market. Heard the salamander is going fast ...smack my lips. We got da “meat”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 28, 2020, 10:26:29 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on March 28, 2020, 09:21:02 PM

Which is why those demanding that action do not have all the correct information at their disposal.  Everyone is an expert at the moment in a situation this country has never faced before in these conditions.  By that I mean air travel, car, products shipped overnight, freedom of movement and international exposure within hours.  This is new territory, but the blame game by all sides is sickening.

::) ::)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 28, 2020, 10:30:58 PM

@benorlin: *asteroid approaches*

SCIENTISTS: If we don't stop this, it will destroy Earth.

PEOPLE: Oh no. How many people has it killed so far?

SCIENTISTS: None yet.

PEOPLE, SUDDENLY ARMED WITH STATISTICS: Why, that's fewer than traffic accidents! Fewer than vending machines! Fewer than

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 28, 2020, 11:03:04 PM

Why a travel advisory for NY, NJ, and Connecticut. Why not in Florida, Louisiana, and other places equally or harder hit than Connecticut?

The addition of Connecticut seems completely random.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 28, 2020, 11:05:32 PM

I have no words for this.


https://www.huffpost.com/entry/facebook-coronavirus-infection-parties-misinformation-policy_n_5e7faf6cc5b6cb9dc1a16f36

A right-wing magazine’s Facebook post suggesting people infect themselves with coronavirus en masse does not violate the platform’s rules, a spokesperson told HuffPost.

The Federalist, a fervently pro-Trump outlet, shared the still-active post to its 100,000-follower Facebook page on Wednesday morning. It links to a Federalist article written by an unlicensed dermatologist, who argues that Americans should throw coronavirus infection “parties” as a way to establish “herd immunity” and save the economy.

Facebook explicitly prohibits coronavirus-related misinformation “that could contribute to imminent physical harm.” The company declined to explain how a post proposing readers deliberately contract a virus that has rapidly killed tens of thousands of people does not meet that standard.

Like other social media giants, Facebook introduced new policies under guidance from the World Health Organization to minimize the reach of “misinformation and harmful content” about the pandemic. But its decision to keep the Federalist post online raises questions about its enforcement of those policies.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 28, 2020, 11:06:57 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on March 28, 2020, 09:18:14 PM

I cannot believe you trust China’s numbers.  Story today showed many times the runs delivered to hospitals than deaths reported.  No way our death rate will be higher than China if the real numbers are used.

Because I know people from Wuhan, and they can report on the actual situation and the methods used to contain/suppress the spread.

They are consistent with what China's government reports, and they aren't fans of the Government.

Also, we aren't even reporting all the actual deaths. When a person dies of pneumonia despite testing negative for flu and other respiratory diseases, we are not testing for coronavirus. We say death by pneumonia. We don't even try to track down contacts and others that may have been infected. We just move on.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 28, 2020, 11:14:21 PM

Who cares if China has more than we do?

I don't believe them, either. So cool ... we're only No. 2 maybe.

We have a f%ck-ton of infected people, numbers growing, as are number of dying. Getting worse and worse in several states, including those in the south and midwest.

So maybe we're only No. 2. Huzzah! Let's open for business!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 28, 2020, 11:31:11 PM

Quote from: MU82 on March 28, 2020, 11:14:21 PM

Who cares if China has more than we do?

I don't believe them, either. So cool ... we're only No. 2 maybe.

We have a f%ck-ton of infected people, numbers growing, as are number of dying. Getting worse and worse in several states, including those in the south and midwest.

So maybe we're only No. 2. Huzzah! Let's open for business!

Agreed. Comparing us to China provides little comfort with all the suffering going on. Our response has been disappointing all along, from the delays in testing, to the denial of the severity of the outbreak, to the delay in invoking and enforcing the DPA. America deserves better, regardless of where we end up on the list.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 28, 2020, 11:40:39 PM

Gonna get way worse before it gets better.

The death toll of the coronavirus outbreak has reached 2,000 victims in the U.S., doubling within the span of two days.

Hopefully the stay-at-home orders will start bringing down the numbers in 2-3 weeks. The problem is that many states are still business as usual.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Eldon on March 28, 2020, 11:52:09 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 28, 2020, 11:03:04 PM

Why a travel advisory for NY, NJ, and Connecticut. Why not in Florida, Louisiana, and other places equally or harder hit than Connecticut?

The addition of Connecticut seems completely random.

Many people--and I mean many--live in CT and work in NYC. 

CT puts the "tri" in "tri-state area."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Eldon on March 28, 2020, 11:56:44 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 28, 2020, 10:30:58 PM

@benorlin: *asteroid approaches*

SCIENTISTS: If we don't stop this, it will destroy Earth.

PEOPLE: Oh no. How many people has it killed so far?

SCIENTISTS: None yet.

PEOPLE, SUDDENLY ARMED WITH STATISTICS: Why, that's fewer than traffic accidents! Fewer than vending machines! Fewer than

#facts

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 29, 2020, 02:43:55 AM

Quote from: Jockey on March 28, 2020, 11:40:39 PM

Gonna get way worse before it gets better.

The death toll of the coronavirus outbreak has reached 2,000 victims in the U.S., doubling within the span of two days.

Hopefully the stay-at-home orders will start bringing down the numbers in 2-3 weeks. The problem is that many states are still business as usual.

So, an underbritches guy moonlights as an epidemiologist who can’t get tested and he has all the answers from how screwed up the leadership is to where this disease is going...I think I’d rather hear what jockey is doing with their new line of crotch less panties

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 29, 2020, 07:20:41 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 28, 2020, 09:45:35 PM

Many of their own people don’t believe it either cuz they know if they ask the wrong questions, they could end up like dr #1 or in jail or both. So just shut up and help support your local wet market. Heard the salamander is going fast ...smack my lips. We got da “meat”

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 29, 2020, 02:43:55 AM

So, an underbritches guy moonlights as an epidemiologist who can’t get tested and he has all the answers from how screwed up the leadership is to where this disease is going...I think I’d rather hear what jockey is doing with their new line of crotch less panties

I thought you had stopped drinking.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 29, 2020, 07:50:16 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 28, 2020, 10:30:58 PM

@benorlin: *asteroid approaches*

SCIENTISTS: If we don't stop this, it will destroy Earth.

PEOPLE: Oh no. How many people has it killed so far?

SCIENTISTS: None yet.

PEOPLE, SUDDENLY ARMED WITH STATISTICS: Why, that's fewer than traffic accidents! Fewer than vending machines! Fewer than

Right.  Which is why the "we're not shutting anything down with so few cases" crowd is so dangerous.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on March 29, 2020, 08:08:30 AM

Kinda crazy to think, but I think it’s realistic to think Tom Hanks and Rudy Gobert (inadvertently of course) saved thousands if not tens of thousands of lives.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 29, 2020, 08:18:43 AM

Quote from: forgetful on March 28, 2020, 11:06:57 PM

Because I know people from Wuhan, and they can report on the actual situation and the methods used to contain/suppress the spread.

They are consistent with what China's government reports, and they aren't fans of the Government.

Also, we aren't even reporting all the actual deaths. When a person dies of pneumonia despite testing negative for flu and other respiratory diseases, we are not testing for coronavirus. We say death by pneumonia. We don't even try to track down contacts and others that may have been infected. We just move on.

I talk to people in Guangdong Province a couple times a week who say the same as forgetful's people.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 29, 2020, 09:27:08 AM

Interesting US map showing confirmed cases per capita, sorted by county. While some of the hotspot metro areas like NYC and N'awlins are understandably high, it's interesting that some rural areas in Utah, Idaho, Montana, Georgia and Arkansas have higher per capita rates than other notable hotspots like the Bay Area and Seattle.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/29/coronavirus-heres-a-map-of-rural-counties-in-us-most-affected-by-pandemic.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 29, 2020, 09:27:58 AM

I thought this was a good analysis/discussion of the road ahead. 

 https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/03/29/coronavirus-strategy-economy-plan (https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/03/29/coronavirus-strategy-economy-plan)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 29, 2020, 09:31:23 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 29, 2020, 09:27:58 AM

I thought this was a good analysis of the road ahead. 

 https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/03/29/coronavirus-strategy-economy-plan (https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/03/29/coronavirus-strategy-economy-plan)

Unfortunately, WaPo seems to be one of the few newspapers that hasn't given free access to its stories about COVID-19. I subscribe to the NYTimes, and was happy to see that they are allowing everyone to read their stories on the outbreak.

So for us non-WaPo subscribers, could you provide a 30,000 foot summary?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 29, 2020, 09:37:58 AM

Well, maybe not the flu or traffic accidents:

Dr. Anthony Fauci says U.S. will have “millions of cases” of COVID-19 and more than 100,000 deaths. Fauci, the head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease, is the U.S. government’s foremost infectious disease expert.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 29, 2020, 09:39:19 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 29, 2020, 09:37:58 AM

Well, maybe not the flu or traffic accidents:

Dr. Anthony Fauci says U.S. will have “millions of cases” of COVID-19 and more than 100,000 deaths. Fauci, the head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease, is the U.S. government’s foremost infectious disease expert.

Well, unfortunately, there are vast tracts of the US that still aren't taking this seriously.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 29, 2020, 09:41:27 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 29, 2020, 09:31:23 AM

Unfortunately, WaPo seems to be one of the few newspapers that hasn't given free access to its stories about COVID-19. I subscribe to the NYTimes, and was happy to see that they are allowing everyone to read their stories on the outbreak.

So for us non-WaPo subscribers, could you provide a 30,000 foot summary?

Healthcare experts opining and essentially crowd sourcing how we set data metrics on a return to normal. Through this crowdsource there is a blueprint emerging. Central command and control required but state triggers based on data. 

Everyone wants economy open but there is no economy as long as health crisis persists

Four phases - shore up the medical system to address the wave. Gradually reduce social distancing restrictions.  Vaccine/treatments developed. Prepare for next pandemic. 

Phase two dependent on better testing and contact tracing for new cases and blood testing to ‘clear’ those that have the antibody. 

This is greatly simplified. I would just copy paste the article but won’t do that without the mods being ok (since they have asked us not to do that in the past)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 29, 2020, 09:41:31 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 29, 2020, 07:20:41 AM

I thought you had stopped drinking.

Ban dis guy.  Completely inappropriate.  Attacking a guy in recovery.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 29, 2020, 09:44:29 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 29, 2020, 09:27:08 AM

Interesting US map showing confirmed cases per capita, sorted by county. While some of the hotspot metro areas like NYC and N'awlins are understandably high, it's interesting that some rural areas in Utah, Idaho, Montana, Georgia and Arkansas have higher per capita rates than other notable hotspots like the Bay Area and Seattle.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/29/coronavirus-heres-a-map-of-rural-counties-in-us-most-affected-by-pandemic.html

I think this is a "travel" effect. The most likely way to get infected a week or two ago was by flying, and going through airports, if one traveler from a small town got infected, per capita that is a lot. And when they would return, they would immediately run up and restock their fridges. Which means the one travel creates a Local Bubble of cases which numbers wise is larger comparatively.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 29, 2020, 10:05:51 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 29, 2020, 09:41:31 AM

Ban dis guy.  Completely inappropriate.  Attacking a guy in recovery.

Gotta be all the mercury in the fillings then, eyn’a?  Damn, still crazy after all (13) theses years.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 29, 2020, 10:18:42 AM

https://madison365.com/coronavirus-to-peak-in-wisconsin-may-22-report-says/

Buckle up, buckaroos.  We are just at the beginning of this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 29, 2020, 10:30:17 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 29, 2020, 09:41:31 AM

Ban dis guy.  Completely inappropriate.  Attacking a guy in recovery.

Wasn’t attacking him. I was concerned for him since his posts were nonsensical.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on March 29, 2020, 10:30:33 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 29, 2020, 10:18:42 AM

https://madison365.com/coronavirus-to-peak-in-wisconsin-may-22-report-says/

Buckle up, buckaroos.  We are just at the beginning of this.

I read that as a little more positive that Wisconsin is flattening the curve and that’s why it’s so far out. I have a hard time seeing how the peak would be two months away with the safer at home being in place for 2 months. Is that still due to the exponential nature of this, just that it is growing much slower?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 29, 2020, 10:39:15 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 29, 2020, 10:30:17 AM

Wasn’t attacking him. I was concerned for him since his posts were nonsensical.

 ::)  ::) ::)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 29, 2020, 10:39:59 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 29, 2020, 10:18:42 AM

https://madison365.com/coronavirus-to-peak-in-wisconsin-may-22-report-says/

Buckle up, buckaroos.  We are just at the beginning of this.

Interesting and frightening.

However, when I scrolled to other states (notably my home of MN), the information seems to be inaccurate. It says that MN has "not implemented" a stay at home order, when in fact it has been in place for a couple of days now. And the empty streets and parking lots I saw when I went for a quick drive yesterday seem to indicate that people are taking it seriously, at least here in Rochester. In fact, the streets have been pretty quiet for a couple of weeks now.

Hopefully the numbers will decrease when they correct those assumptions (both here in MN, and other states that may have inaccuracies). Because the 1,280 projected deaths is mind-boggling.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: lostpassword on March 29, 2020, 10:40:35 AM

Quote from: cheebs09 on March 29, 2020, 10:30:33 AM

I read that as a little more positive that Wisconsin is flattening the curve and that’s why it’s so far out. I have a hard time seeing how the peak would be two months away with the safer at home being in place for 2 months. Is that still due to the exponential nature of this, just that it is growing much slower?

I had the same initial reaction.  I paged thru every state and WI (May 22) had the furthest out peak in these models.  Florida was next with May 14 and I think there was only 1 or 2 others in May.  Most states were in next 3 weeks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 29, 2020, 10:50:31 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 29, 2020, 10:18:42 AM

https://madison365.com/coronavirus-to-peak-in-wisconsin-may-22-report-says/

Buckle up, buckaroos.  We are just at the beginning of this.

Overall a neat resource, but there are flaws in their analysis. For one, the peak in cases/beds will not necessarily (and doesn't) align with peak ventilator and ICU needs. They have all the shortages calculated from the overall peak. There is more need for ICU and peak ventilators than they are calculating.

Honestly kind of a novice mistake in data analysis. Which concerns me that their models also have issues.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 29, 2020, 10:53:40 AM

Quote from: lostpassword on March 29, 2020, 10:40:35 AM

I had the same initial reaction.  I paged thru every state and WI (May 22) had the furthest out peak in these models.  Florida was next with May 14 and I think there was only 1 or 2 others in May.  Most states were in next 3 weeks.

No chance Florida peaks by May 14th.  Add a month to that.  They're doing all the wrong things.  They don't even have a state wide shelter at home yet.  Luckily some of the counties decided to take leadership and do it on their own.  This is the problem that it creates.

https://twitter.com/travisakers/status/1243990179557359616?s=20

Travis Akers
@travisakers
This picture is from 3pm today.

You can see exactly where Duval County ends and St. John’s County begins.

All beaches in Duval are closed, while St. John’s only blocked parking at the beach.

Gov. DeSantis needs to order a state-wide closure of all Florida beaches.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUOKePvXQAAdbgy?format=jpg&name=small)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Bo Ryan's Massage Therapist on March 29, 2020, 11:07:00 AM

This is a University of Iowa Grand Rounds lecture on covid-19 done by a physician who has studied coronaviruses for years and an epidemiologist who has studied SARS and MERS.  It’s meant for healthcare workers and is 90 minutes long.

https://uicapture.hosted.panopto.com/Panopto/Pages/Embed.aspx?id=5bc821ca-ef05-4da9-8f0e-ab8400effdff


Key points that I learned:
Original transmission is bat- animal-to human. They are unsure what animal, initially thought pangolins but DNA of coronavirus only 99% identical.

Vaccine unlikely to help this year.  Biggest hope is a drug treatment.  Vaccine could help if virus returns next year.  Virus is mutating but much less than influenza. However, like flu a vaccine is a “holy grail.”  Too much variability in strains to completely protect.

Remdesivir is a promising antiviral but limited because it can only be given IV and works best if given before severe disease. Right now only being given to critically ill patients.

Chloroquine and azithromycin are promising but way more data/study needs to be done

This one freaked me out: kids actually may get infected as often as adults and be a vector for spread.  We don’t know because they are often asymptomatic or have really mild disease and are not tested.  Their young immune system is more effective than aging individuals.   The virus infects the ACE2 receptors and ACE2 activity falls as we age making us less able to cope with covid-19.

A large percentage of healthcare workers self contaminate when putting PPE on and off.  Part of this is the lack of PPE/gowns.  I only have one gown I reuse every day.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 29, 2020, 11:07:34 AM

Quote from: Jockey on March 28, 2020, 11:05:32 PM

The company declined to explain how a post proposing readers deliberately contract a virus that has rapidly killed tens of thousands of people does not meet that standard.

Because Zuckerberg is and always has been a greedy little asswipe

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 29, 2020, 12:06:02 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 29, 2020, 10:53:40 AM

No chance Florida peaks by May 14th.  Add a month to that.  They're doing all the wrong things.  They don't even have a state wide shelter at home yet.  Luckily some of the counties decided to take leadership and do it on their own.  This is the problem that it creates.

https://twitter.com/travisakers/status/1243990179557359616?s=20

Travis Akers
@travisakers
This picture is from 3pm today.

You can see exactly where Duval County ends and St. John’s County begins.

All beaches in Duval are closed, while St. John’s only blocked parking at the beach.

Gov. DeSantis needs to order a state-wide closure of all Florida beaches.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUOKePvXQAAdbgy?format=jpg&name=small)

That is a frightening picture of man’s stupidity.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 29, 2020, 12:17:29 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 29, 2020, 12:06:02 PM

That is a frightening picture of man’s stupidity.

Speaking of stupid men...

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/maryland-man-arrested-for-having-60-people-over-for-bonfire-violating-social-distancing-orders/2257130/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: statnik on March 29, 2020, 12:26:12 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 29, 2020, 10:53:40 AM

No chance Florida peaks by May 14th.  Add a month to that.  They're doing all the wrong things.  They don't even have a state wide shelter at home yet.  Luckily some of the counties decided to take leadership and do it on their own.  This is the problem that it creates.

https://twitter.com/travisakers/status/1243990179557359616?s=20

Travis Akers
@travisakers
This picture is from 3pm today.

You can see exactly where Duval County ends and St. John’s County begins.

All beaches in Duval are closed, while St. John’s only blocked parking at the beach.

Gov. DeSantis needs to order a state-wide closure of all Florida beaches.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUOKePvXQAAdbgy?format=jpg&name=small)

You do realize that not heeding the warnings means they will peak earlier than these projections, right?  The states with the later peaks tend to be the ones that will be able to flatten the curve better.  It’s unfortunate because it will be a double-edged sword either way.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 29, 2020, 12:39:28 PM

Only in Oregon (and NJ?)  would you need to worry about the safety of people pumping their own gas.

https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2020/03/oregon-temporarily-lifts-prohibition-on-self-service-gas-in-response-to-coronavirus.html

I do wonder - how many people in Oregon have never left and never pumped their own gas?  This could lead to unmitigated ecological disaster!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on March 29, 2020, 12:45:57 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 28, 2020, 11:06:57 PM

Because I know people from Wuhan, and they can report on the actual situation and the methods used to contain/suppress the spread.

They are consistent with what China's government reports, and they aren't fans of the Government.

Also, we aren't even reporting all the actual deaths. When a person dies of pneumonia despite testing negative for flu and other respiratory diseases, we are not testing for coronavirus. We say death by pneumonia. We don't even try to track down contacts and others that may have been infected. We just move on.

The British government believes the Chinese reports are between 15 to 40 times understated.  Our reporting of pneumonia deaths disparity is happening elsewhere, too.

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-boris-johnsons-government-reportedly-furious-with-china-2020-3

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 29, 2020, 12:51:43 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on March 29, 2020, 12:45:57 PM

The British government believes the Chinese reports are between 15 to 40 times understated.  Our reporting of pneumonia deaths disparity is happening elsewhere, too.

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-boris-johnsons-government-reportedly-furious-with-china-2020-3

Why is this important?  Does it make you feel better about the US?  Curious.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on March 29, 2020, 12:58:51 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 29, 2020, 12:51:43 PM

Why is this important?  Does it make you feel better about the US?  Curious.

My personal opinion is that a country like ours there is very little one can do without violating the basic freedoms we have as a nation and people.  Too many citizens oppose those tactics as well as leaders at the state and federal level. In my readings of messages here there appear to be a call to action as the Chinese have done to stop the spread, but more than likely even their heavy-handed approach has done very little to stop it.  If the solution as proposed by people here is to shut it all down, go door to door and it isn't working there then that data should be shared.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 29, 2020, 01:29:03 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 29, 2020, 10:53:40 AM

No chance Florida peaks by May 14th.  Add a month to that.  They're doing all the wrong things.  They don't even have a state wide shelter at home yet.  Luckily some of the counties decided to take leadership and do it on their own.  This is the problem that it creates.

https://twitter.com/travisakers/status/1243990179557359616?s=20

Travis Akers
@travisakers
This picture is from 3pm today.

You can see exactly where Duval County ends and St. John’s County begins.

All beaches in Duval are closed, while St. John’s only blocked parking at the beach.

Gov. DeSantis needs to order a state-wide closure of all Florida beaches.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUOKePvXQAAdbgy?format=jpg&name=small)

DeSantis was in Trump's ear pushing for a quarantine on NY/NJ/Conn. He needs to clean up his own effen house!

Here in NC, things are getting exponentially worse.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/coronavirus/article241585466.html?

Governor has issued a stay-at-home order that will go into effect tomorrow afternoon (Mon 3/30). But Mecklenburg County (biggest in state, and where I live) has been on such an order for a week now and many aren't heeding it. Weather last couple days has been very nice and the parks have been flooded with people -- little to no social distancing going on. So now they are talking about closing parks and trails, too.

This is gonna get so much worse before it gets better, not just in NC and Fla but all over the place. I'm an optimistic guy who has never been depressed, but this is testing me for sure.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 29, 2020, 01:41:37 PM

At least he's focused on what really matters.

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
“President Trump is a ratings hit. Since reviving the daily White House briefing Mr. Trump and his coronavirus updates have attracted an average audience of 8.5 million on cable news, roughly the viewership of the season finale of ‘The Bachelor.’ Numbers are continuing to rise..

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on March 29, 2020, 02:06:48 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 29, 2020, 10:50:31 AM

Overall a neat resource, but there are flaws in their analysis. For one, the peak in cases/beds will not necessarily (and doesn't) align with peak ventilator and ICU needs. They have all the shortages calculated from the overall peak. There is more need for ICU and peak ventilators than they are calculating.

Honestly kind of a novice mistake in data analysis. Which concerns me that their models also have issues.

Is there a better way to project acute ICU/vent needs, when said needs are unique to the patient pool? There's some smoothing here, and I agree an assumption that vent needs will occur evenly over time vs all at once is difficult to project. You could run the risk of taxing the system at any one time as you near the apex, but if you're staffed/equipped for the high point, it'd be an outlier.

Seems to me that they assume most acute needs (by volume, vs percentage of cases) will occur at the peak, which is the safest bet.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 29, 2020, 02:12:53 PM

Quote from: GB Warrior on March 29, 2020, 02:06:48 PM

Is there a better way to project acute ICU/vent needs, when said needs are unique to the patient pool? There's some smoothing here, and I agree an assumption that vent needs will occur evenly over time vs all at once is difficult to project. You could run the risk of taxing the system at any one time as you near the apex, but if you're staffed/equipped for the high point, it'd be an outlier.

Seems to me that they assume most acute needs (by volume, vs percentage of cases) will occur at the peak, which is the safest bet.

They have the data in the model. Simply calculate the peak ICU needs, from the peak in the ICU distribution. Then subtract the actual number of ICU beds to determine the maximum shortage. They didn't do that. They calculated the maximum shortage, assuming all the curves peak on the same day. The isn't actually the case in their own models.

As an example for the overall US, they report that the number of ICU beds needed is 34,754, because that is how many are needed right at the peak on April 13th. But the ICU needs peaks on April 9th with 36,076 ICU beds needed. So there is a bigger shortage than they are calculating.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 29, 2020, 02:15:27 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 29, 2020, 01:41:37 PM

At least he's focused on what really matters.

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
“President Trump is a ratings hit. Since reviving the daily White House briefing Mr. Trump and his coronavirus updates have attracted an average audience of 8.5 million on cable news, roughly the viewership of the season finale of ‘The Bachelor.’ Numbers are continuing to rise..

He is a sick, sick man. Maybe if his priority at the beginning was about the American people rather than himself, things wouldn’t be so dire.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 29, 2020, 02:22:43 PM

Here's a sobering NYT article about the leadership failure early on that created "The Lost Month" -- a stretch in which we might have been able to keep the virus from growing into the monster it has become:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/28/us/testing-coronavirus-pandemic.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20200329&instance_id=17169&nl=morning-briefing&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=23230&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

WASHINGTON — Early on, the dozen federal officials charged with defending America against the coronavirus gathered day after day in the White House Situation Room, consumed by crises. They grappled with how to evacuate the United States consulate in Wuhan, China, ban Chinese travelers and extract Americans from the Diamond Princess and other cruise ships.

The members of the coronavirus task force typically devoted only five or 10 minutes, often at the end of contentious meetings, to talk about testing, several participants recalled. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, its leaders assured the others, had developed a diagnostic model that would be rolled out quickly as a first step.

But as the deadly virus  spread from China with ferocity across the United States between late January and early March, large-scale testing of people who might have been infected did not happen — because of technical flaws, regulatory hurdles, business-as-usual bureaucracies and lack of leadership at multiple levels, according to interviews with more than 50 current and former public health officials, administration officials, senior scientists and company executives.

The result was a lost month, when the world’s richest country — armed with some of the most highly trained scientists and infectious disease specialists — squandered its best chance of containing the virus’s spread. Instead, Americans were left largely blind to the scale of a looming public health catastrophe.

The absence of robust screening until it was “far too late” revealed failures across the government, said Dr. Thomas Frieden, the former C.D.C. director. Jennifer Nuzzo, an epidemiologist at Johns Hopkins, said the Trump administration had “incredibly limited” views of the pathogen’s potential impact. Dr. Margaret Hamburg, the former commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration, said the lapse enabled “exponential growth of cases.”

And Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, a top government scientist involved in the fight against the virus, told members of Congress that the early inability to test was “a failing” of the administration’s response to a deadly, global pandemic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 29, 2020, 03:01:20 PM

Quote from: MU82 on March 29, 2020, 02:22:43 PM

Here's a sobering NYT article about the leadership failure early on that created "The Lost Month" -- a stretch in which we might have been able to keep the virus from growing into the monster it has become:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/28/us/testing-coronavirus-pandemic.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20200329&instance_id=17169&nl=morning-briefing&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=23230&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

WASHINGTON — Early on, the dozen federal officials charged with defending America against the coronavirus gathered day after day in the White House Situation Room, consumed by crises. They grappled with how to evacuate the United States consulate in Wuhan, China, ban Chinese travelers and extract Americans from the Diamond Princess and other cruise ships.

The members of the coronavirus task force typically devoted only five or 10 minutes, often at the end of contentious meetings, to talk about testing, several participants recalled. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, its leaders assured the others, had developed a diagnostic model that would be rolled out quickly as a first step.

But as the deadly virus  spread from China with ferocity across the United States between late January and early March, large-scale testing of people who might have been infected did not happen — because of technical flaws, regulatory hurdles, business-as-usual bureaucracies and lack of leadership at multiple levels, according to interviews with more than 50 current and former public health officials, administration officials, senior scientists and company executives.

The result was a lost month, when the world’s richest country — armed with some of the most highly trained scientists and infectious disease specialists — squandered its best chance of containing the virus’s spread. Instead, Americans were left largely blind to the scale of a looming public health catastrophe.

The absence of robust screening until it was “far too late” revealed failures across the government, said Dr. Thomas Frieden, the former C.D.C. director. Jennifer Nuzzo, an epidemiologist at Johns Hopkins, said the Trump administration had “incredibly limited” views of the pathogen’s potential impact. Dr. Margaret Hamburg, the former commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration, said the lapse enabled “exponential growth of cases.”

And Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, a top government scientist involved in the fight against the virus, told members of Congress that the early inability to test was “a failing” of the administration’s response to a deadly, global pandemic.

Plenty of mistakes were made, but the most frustrating to me was the FDA's refusal to relax its normal requirements for testing. The University of Washington had a test that was working in a research setting, but the FDA refused to allow its use for clinical testing. I was stunned. The FDA Director can't change the regulations, but he CAN tell researchers that he would exercise his discretion not to pursue violations during the COVID crisis. The info in this article - that the FDA Director was new at the job - helps to explain why he was reluctant to take charge and make the right call.

It also shows the benefit of having some "lifers" in positions of regulatory authority, instead of using the revolving-door method....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 29, 2020, 03:03:33 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on March 29, 2020, 12:58:51 PM

My personal opinion is that a country like ours there is very little one can do without violating the basic freedoms we have as a nation and people.  Too many citizens oppose those tactics as well as leaders at the state and federal level. In my readings of messages here there appear to be a call to action as the Chinese have done to stop the spread, but more than likely even their heavy-handed approach has done very little to stop it.  If the solution as proposed by people here is to shut it all down, go door to door and it isn't working there then that data should be shared.

So you're point is...
 - you THINK china is lying
 - and ASSUMING they are lying their control measures didn't work.
 - So you ASSUME it's not worthwhile for the US to do more than they are

?  Yet, regardless of china lying about #s, we have 2nd hand accounts here - from wuhan - that things are going well there - and returning to normal.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: LON on March 29, 2020, 03:18:23 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 29, 2020, 03:03:33 PM

So you're point is...
 - you THINK china is lying
 - and ASSUMING they are lying their control measures didn't work.
 - So you ASSUME it's not worthwhile for the US to do more than they are

?  Yet, regardless of china lying about #s, we have 2nd hand accounts here - from wuhan - that things are going well there - and returning to normal.

Have a client that has a facility that is 100 miles from Wuhan and things back to normal there as well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Goose on March 29, 2020, 03:55:19 PM

rocky

I do not believe that Wuhan, or China in general, is anywhere near back to normal. There still is a great emphasis on social distancing, limits on travel and limited non work life. Our team in China is working and then going home. My guess is this the back to normal we will see in the USA in upcoming months.

China government pivoted from medical emergency to an economic emergency. Within 4-6 weeks much of the products for retail in USA will be completed and they are going to experience a very serious economic aftershock. There is limited demand from the USA and EU and factories are going to run out of orders to produce.

China is going to have to use every tool in their toolbox to navigate a serious economic slowdown come May. Again, if only barometer is factory activity than China is looking normal, but from I hear daily, life is far from normal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on March 29, 2020, 04:05:15 PM

We may be done. Not sure the world can return to 'normal'.

The suicides will be off the charts soon. Probably many on social media. Gone b baaaaaad

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 29, 2020, 04:15:53 PM

Quote from: Goose on March 29, 2020, 03:55:19 PM

rocky

I do not believe that Wuhan, or China in general, is anywhere near back to normal. There still is a great emphasis on social distancing, limits on travel and limited non work life. Our team in China is working and then going home. My guess is this the back to normal we will see in the USA in upcoming months.

China government pivoted from medical emergency to an economic emergency. Within 4-6 weeks much of the products for retail in USA will be completed and they are going to experience a very serious economic aftershock. There is limited demand from the USA and EU and factories are going to run out of orders to produce.

China is going to have to use every tool in their toolbox to navigate a serious economic slowdown come May. Again, if only barometer is factory activity than China is looking normal, but from I hear daily, life is far from normal.

Great post.

Why can't we have leaders in this country saying exactly what you just said to the American people? We are a strong, resilient group. Instead of preparing us for reality, they are giving us "seashells and balloons".

Instead people are being led to believe things will be better by Easter, when in reality we won't even be near the peak then.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 29, 2020, 04:21:38 PM

Quote from: Goose on March 29, 2020, 03:55:19 PM

rocky

I do not believe that Wuhan, or China in general, is anywhere near back to normal. There still is a great emphasis on social distancing, limits on travel and limited non work life. Our team in China is working and then going home. My guess is this the back to normal we will see in the USA in upcoming months.

China government pivoted from medical emergency to an economic emergency. Within 4-6 weeks much of the products for retail in USA will be completed and they are going to experience a very serious economic aftershock. There is limited demand from the USA and EU and factories are going to run out of orders to produce.

China is going to have to use every tool in their toolbox to navigate a serious economic slowdown come May. Again, if only barometer is factory activity than China is looking normal, but from I hear daily, life is far from normal.

Great post. Things are returning to normal, but are not there yet.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Johnny B on March 29, 2020, 04:35:34 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on March 29, 2020, 04:05:15 PM

We may be done. Not sure the world can return to 'normal'.

The suicides will be off the charts soon. Probably many on social media. Gone b baaaaaad

Seriously the suicides? Are you on the trump dont let the cure be worse stuff

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on March 29, 2020, 04:53:35 PM

Quote from: MU82 on March 29, 2020, 02:22:43 PM

Here's a sobering NYT article about the leadership failure early on that created "The Lost Month" -- a stretch in which we might have been able to keep the virus from growing into the monster it has become:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/28/us/testing-coronavirus-pandemic.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20200329&instance_id=17169&nl=morning-briefing&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=23230&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

WASHINGTON — Early on, the dozen federal officials charged with defending America against the coronavirus gathered day after day in the White House Situation Room, consumed by crises. They grappled with how to evacuate the United States consulate in Wuhan, China, ban Chinese travelers and extract Americans from the Diamond Princess and other cruise ships.

The members of the coronavirus task force typically devoted only five or 10 minutes, often at the end of contentious meetings, to talk about testing, several participants recalled. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, its leaders assured the others, had developed a diagnostic model that would be rolled out quickly as a first step.

But as the deadly virus  spread from China with ferocity across the United States between late January and early March, large-scale testing of people who might have been infected did not happen — because of technical flaws, regulatory hurdles, business-as-usual bureaucracies and lack of leadership at multiple levels, according to interviews with more than 50 current and former public health officials, administration officials, senior scientists and company executives.

The result was a lost month, when the world’s richest country — armed with some of the most highly trained scientists and infectious disease specialists — squandered its best chance of containing the virus’s spread. Instead, Americans were left largely blind to the scale of a looming public health catastrophe.

The absence of robust screening until it was “far too late” revealed failures across the government, said Dr. Thomas Frieden, the former C.D.C. director. Jennifer Nuzzo, an epidemiologist at Johns Hopkins, said the Trump administration had “incredibly limited” views of the pathogen’s potential impact. Dr. Margaret Hamburg, the former commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration, said the lapse enabled “exponential growth of cases.”

And Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, a top government scientist involved in the fight against the virus, told members of Congress that the early inability to test was “a failing” of the administration’s response to a deadly, global pandemic.

I'm not the least bit surprised you would use the NY Times as a source for anything.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 29, 2020, 04:54:31 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on March 29, 2020, 04:05:15 PM

We may be done. Not sure the world can return to 'normal'.

The suicides will be off the charts soon. Probably many on social media. Gone b baaaaaad

We will get back to normal. People are adjusting. If the national leaders will get out of the way, the governors and mayors will do a much better job. They will be worried about their cities and states. They will do what is best for their people. They won't lie to try to glorify themselves.

I try not to complain. I want for nothing. I don't need to depend on a stimulus check to pay rent or to eat. I miss sports. I miss Fantasy Baseball. Thursday would have been the best sports day of the entire year - opening day and Sweet 16. My wife has marveled at how I am adjusting without my daily sports fix. But it is not about me, so I go on each day doing the best I can just as millions and millions of others are doing.

Just settle in as best you can and relax. By mid-summer things will be a lot better. Not yet back to normal, but on its way.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: BM1090 on March 29, 2020, 04:55:27 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on March 29, 2020, 04:05:15 PM

We may be done. Not sure the world can return to 'normal'.

The suicides will be off the charts soon. Probably many on social media. Gone b baaaaaad

We'll be fine. I do agree that it's going to take a lot longer than people think, though.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 29, 2020, 05:16:53 PM

Quote from: muguru on March 29, 2020, 04:53:35 PM

I'm not the least bit surprised you would use the NY Times as a source for anything.

FWIW...Reason.com (a CONSERVATIVE news outlet), has reported similar things about the testing delays, and even referred to an earlier NTYimes article about this topic (which described "a series of missed chances by the federal government") as "a terrific new article." 

https://reason.com/2020/03/11/how-government-red-tape-stymied-testing-and-made-the-coronavirus-epidemic-worse/

Or is Reason.com too "liberal" for you too?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 29, 2020, 05:25:35 PM

Quote from: muguru on March 29, 2020, 04:53:35 PM

I'm not the least bit surprised you would use the NY Times as a source for anything.

I’m not the least bit surprised you don’t have a response to the article itself.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 29, 2020, 05:29:30 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 29, 2020, 05:25:35 PM

I’m not the least bit surprised you don’t have a response to the article itself.

I'm guessing guru won't have a response to the Reason.com article I posted either...since it essentially says the same thing as the NYT article, and was very complimentary of a previous NYT article on the topic.

The reality is that the FDA really missed an opportunity when the University of Washington dropped a COVID-19 test in its lap, but the new Director (appointed by Trump) declined to allow it to be used. And having worked extensively with the FDA over the years, I know that the FDA can use its enforcement discretion to allow things that don't meet all of its normal requirements.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on March 29, 2020, 05:32:33 PM

Legit question to liberal, democratic Scoopers:

What exactly would you want our President to do right now, that you believe is not being done to help all Americans get through the pandemic and its economic fallout?
 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 29, 2020, 05:39:57 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 29, 2020, 05:32:33 PM

Legit question to liberal, democratic Scoopers:

What exactly would you want our President to do right now, that you believe is not being done to help all Americans get through the pandemic and its economic fallout?

For me:
Be honest and stop giving false assurances constantly (like the chloroquine thing). Stop polarizing states and people along party lines. Confront the conservative sites he usually quotes giving misinformation such as the federalist article.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 29, 2020, 05:40:47 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 29, 2020, 05:32:33 PM

Legit question to liberal, democratic Scoopers:

What exactly would you want our President to do right now, that you believe is not being done to help all Americans get through the pandemic and its economic fallout?

Go watch the speech Angela Merkel gave the other day. I would like him to give a similar message. Essentially: this is going to be very difficult for everybody; we will try our best to get things up and running, but can't make any promises; we are all equal and important in fighting this pandemic. A speech that did not tout herself, did not insult any political opponents, but instead gave hope. Then I would like to see him act that way consistently, day after day, until we get through this.

Scroll down for the speech, with English subtitles:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/03/angela-merkel-nails-coronavirus-speech-unlike-trump.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Goose on March 29, 2020, 05:40:54 PM

4ever

I am looking forward to the answers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: keefe on March 29, 2020, 05:55:41 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 29, 2020, 02:15:27 PM

He is a sick, sick man. Maybe if his priority at the beginning was about the American people rather than himself, things wouldn’t be so dire.

Maybe he just needs a new pair of tight whites

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on March 29, 2020, 05:56:38 PM

Quote from: Goose on March 29, 2020, 05:40:54 PM

4ever

I am looking forward to the answers.

Honesty, sincerity, and empathy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 29, 2020, 05:59:18 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 29, 2020, 05:32:33 PM

Legit question to liberal, democratic Scoopers:

What exactly would you want our President to do right now, that you believe is not being done to help all Americans get through the pandemic and its economic fallout?

The criticisms are him being way late on everything. Testing, way late. Using the defense production act...way way late. Personally, I'd like to see him (and think he should have done it already).

1. Call in all living presidents to help lead and project a message of unity. In all honesty, maybe bring in Biden when we get closer to the election, as whoever wins needs to carry this thing on, and needs to be ready.

2. Shut down any and all non-essential air-travel. We are spreading this around our nation right now like idiots. (not sure on the legality here though).

3. I agree on the honesty, sincerity, and empathy too.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: keefe on March 29, 2020, 06:00:28 PM

Quote from: Goose on March 29, 2020, 05:40:54 PM

4ever

I am looking forward to the answers.

Long ass wait, Mother Goose

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 29, 2020, 06:01:40 PM

Quote from: reinko on March 29, 2020, 05:56:38 PM

Honesty, sincerity, and empathy.

You, Galway, forgetful and I have essentially said the same thing in different ways.

Regrettably, things like honesty, sincerity, empathy, humility and nonpartisanship are likely too much to ask for these days.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: keefe on March 29, 2020, 06:03:18 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 29, 2020, 05:59:18 PM

bring in Biden

YGBFSM

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 29, 2020, 06:07:51 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 29, 2020, 05:32:33 PM

Legit question to liberal, democratic Scoopers:

What exactly would you want our President to do right now, that you believe is not being done to help all Americans get through the pandemic and its economic fallout?

1. Stop bragging about the ratings of his news conferences.
2. Stop attacking governors who aren't "nice enough" to him.
3. Stop lying. We are NOT opening things up by Easter.
4. Shut up and get out of the way. Let governors make the decisions.
5. Let the Federal Gov't coordinate the buying and shipping of medical equipment. They SHOULD BE our shipping clerks. Right now we have governors ordering supplies and the feds are outbidding them.
6. Stop lying.
7. Stop the name calling. You're 73 years old - not 12.
8. Stop destroying the bureaucracy. It would have been great to have the early warnings that many of his fired people could have given us.
9. Stop bragging about yourself. You're 73 years old - not 12. You are not the smartest person alive. You don't have the biggest brain.
10. Stop lying.
11. TAKE RESPONSIBILITY. It is what real leaders do.
12. Rebuild the public-health cooperation with China that Bush and Obama built and the Trump administration destroyed. When SARS occurred, Bush had the CDC send 40 experts to China. SARS was contained and 0 Americans died. Obama increased the cooperation with H1N1 and Ebola. Trump destroyed the cooperation so we were caught flat-footed with COVID.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Archies Bat on March 29, 2020, 06:23:04 PM

Goose, Keefe and 4ever:

What do you think he has done well, and not so well?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 29, 2020, 06:34:34 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 29, 2020, 05:32:33 PM

Legit question to liberal, democratic Scoopers:

What exactly would you want our President to do right now, that you believe is not being done to help all Americans get through the pandemic and its economic fallout?

I'm not as liberal as some on here seem to believe, but here's my thoughts (apart from "stop being an pretty boy" - which he appears to have made progress on this weekend).

- Work with states to make sure healthcare workers can cross state lines to help out as needed - immediately
- Expand the national guard and corps of engineers support immediately.  I see only 15k of the 450k are moving.  Bring in more military if needed.  There need to be rapid repose centers setup near every metro area next week.
- Work with private enterprise (Amazon/WalMart/Grocery Chains) to staff up to get essential deliveries scaled up.  Nearly impossible to schedule those - all slots full - forcing people to go out.
- Ramp up social productivity programs(think, modern day CCC).  If we're going to be handing out trillions, lets get some public good out of those people - not just pay unemployment / send checks.
- In conjunction with that - every household needs access to high speed internet.  It's an online world, lets monetize it for everyone - not leave folks out.

I'm sure there's lots more.  But hey, I'm not in office, I just delete posts whenever I goddamn feel like it.

edit: for those kiddos unfamiliar with the CCC - here you go (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_Conservation_Corps)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 29, 2020, 06:34:58 PM

Quote from: reinko on March 29, 2020, 05:56:38 PM

Honesty, sincerity, and empathy.

This.

I don't hung up on the press conference ratings tweets.  That's is who he is and irrelevent to the issue at hand. 

But telling people we are in a war at one point, then saying a couple days later that he wants everything back open by Easter is at best sending mixed signals.  At worst it validates what his harshest critics say about his attention span and his attention to detail.

His administration took awhile to get going, but it is doing a number of very good things now.  But here is what he should do.  Tell the governors to shut stuff down.  Tell Americans to help one another, that the government will help in the short run and show that we can be the City on the Hill.

IMO, if he would lead in his way, he would be a shoo-in in November.  I have no doubt about that. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 29, 2020, 07:07:52 PM

Quote from: keefe on March 29, 2020, 06:00:28 PM

Long ass wait, Mother Goose

Well, that aged well especially since someone answered immediately before you posted this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 29, 2020, 07:11:44 PM

John Prine critical. On ventilator.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 29, 2020, 07:13:45 PM

Quote from: keefe on March 16, 2020, 06:21:24 PM

Myself and many friends caught it. It's like a very mild flu - headache, body ache, low grade fever, dry cough, and lethargy.

We were all told that if there was a temperature spike or shortness of breath then get to a hospital. But otherwise, self quarantine while taking fluids and resting.

We all stayed home while continuing our work productivity. If you are fit, healthy, and maintain situational awareness it is the same as managing a cold. The elderly and those with immunity issues are the ones at risk.

The degree of hysteria around this is decidedly over the top.

Yeah, not so simple
https://komonews.com/news/coronavirus/fit-healthy-33-year-old-recounts-falling-ill-to-coronavirus

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 29, 2020, 07:22:25 PM

Trump would need to do what is impossible for him. He would have to say he was wrong.
He needs to correct some of the crap he’s said in his daily rallies. I still see people spouting the things he’s even walked back. It is leading to deaths.
But he is incapable of saying he was wrong.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 29, 2020, 07:22:49 PM

Quote from: reinko on March 29, 2020, 05:56:38 PM

Honesty, sincerity, and empathy.

So, the impossible.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 29, 2020, 07:25:48 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 29, 2020, 07:11:44 PM

John Prine critical. On ventilator.

If he goes the same day as Joe Diffie, my FIL might have an emotional meltdown.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 29, 2020, 07:30:47 PM

I would like to see trump become the face of the response.  Proactive - get ahead - get accused of doing too much on the health response side.

BTW - this is happening on the economic side.  So don’t fault the admin one bit for the first waves. 

PS the thing he plays up as being proactive (China travel) was done by my company well prior.  In fact we shut off global and domestic travel way before.  It’s these things that seemed drastic at the time but now seem appropriate on the health side that I would like more examples of. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 29, 2020, 07:53:11 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 29, 2020, 07:30:47 PM

I would like to see trump become the face of the response.  Proactive - get ahead - get accused of doing too much on the health response side.

BTW - this is happening on the economic side.  So don’t fault the admin one bit for the first waves. 

PS the thing he plays up as being proactive (China travel) was done by my company well prior.  In fact we shut off global and domestic travel way before.  It’s these things that seemed drastic at the time but now seem appropriate on the health side that I would like more examples of.

?

What Trump needs to do is step aside and let the people that know what they are doing and saying do their job and handle the briefings and interviews. We all know that isn't going to happen. So it is very simple, don't televise the daily briefings. Only later show on television and online the honest, helpful, and accurate information.

Today for example, he denied saying NYC didn't need the quantity of ventilators they asked for. Fauci said they do need them. So tonight Trump says he never said that. It's on video for the world to see. This happens daily. It doesn't help anyone and often times makes the situation much worse and more dangerous unnecessarily.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 29, 2020, 07:55:23 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 29, 2020, 07:53:11 PM

?

What Trump needs to do is step aside and let the people that know what they are doing and saying do their job and handle the briefings and interviews. We all know that isn't going to happen. So it is very simple, don't televise the daily briefings. Only later show on television and online the honest, helpful, and accurate information.

Today for example, he denied saying NYC didn't need the quantity of ventilators they asked for. Fauci said they do need them. So tonight Trump says he never said that. It's on video for the world to see. This happens daily. It doesn't help anyone and often times makes the situation much worse and more dangerous unnecessarily.

That’s my point.  He is making it seem confusing, haphazard and uncoordinated.  I did not make a comment on whether I believe he is capable of this as I was answering 4evers question.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 29, 2020, 08:12:34 PM

Quote from: Archies Bat on March 29, 2020, 06:23:04 PM

Goose, Keefe and 4ever:

What do you think he has done well, and not so well?

Quote from: keefe on March 29, 2020, 06:00:28 PM

Long ass wait, Mother Goose

Irony

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on March 29, 2020, 08:34:59 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 29, 2020, 06:34:58 PM

This.

I don't hung up on the press conference ratings tweets.  That's is who he is and irrelevent to the issue at hand. 

But telling people we are in a war at one point, then saying a couple days later that he wants everything back open by Easter is at best sending mixed signals.  At worst it validates what his harshest critics say about his attention span and his attention to detail.

His administration took awhile to get going, but it is doing a number of very good things now.  But here is what he should do.  Tell the governors to shut stuff down.  Tell Americans to help one another, that the government will help in the short run and show that we can be the City on the Hill.

IMO, if he would lead in his way, he would be a shoo-in in November.  I have no doubt about that.

Pretty much agree with everything here.

He literally can do nothing to change the minds of those who so self righteously love him or hate him but there are people capable of giving him honest blame or credit for how this unfolds.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 29, 2020, 08:36:28 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 29, 2020, 08:12:34 PM

Irony

They were overwhelmed with too many completely reasonable answers...things that should be easy, but which they know are impossible for POTUS.

Honesty, sincerity, empathy, nonpartisanship, humility, consistency.

A bridge too far....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 29, 2020, 08:44:49 PM

I've heard two stories this week of Trump slurpers who said they are completely done with him after this.  One is a medical worker reusing masks and the other has a Trump flag in his office and ripped down stating he's killing people.
Both indicated they are either voting Biden or not at all.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 29, 2020, 08:49:30 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 29, 2020, 07:53:11 PM

?

What Trump needs to do is step aside and let the people that know what they are doing and saying do their job and handle the briefings and interviews. We all know that isn't going to happen. So it is very simple, don't televise the daily briefings. Only later show on television and online the honest, helpful, and accurate information.

Today for example, he denied saying NYC didn't need the quantity of ventilators they asked for. Fauci said they do need them. So tonight Trump says he never said that. It's on video for the world to see. This happens daily. It doesn't help anyone and often times makes the situation much worse and more dangerous unnecessarily.

Damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t. Where is our president?  Oh, he needs to get out of the way...he needs to listen to the “experts”, blah blah

There are many things he didn’t say that they say he did say.  He’s trying to be upbeat. Everyone needs to use a little critical thinking instead of laying on his every word. How many times do we need to hear, wash your hands, keep safe distances, stay at home if you can...?? 

The people here who do not like this admin, there is nothing, let me repeat, NOTHING he can say or do to change their minds about him.  So if you are in this category, get a squeeze ball, try yoga, meditate, and take care of yourselves cuz the president obviously is doing nothing more for you than p!ssing ya off anyway.

   Don’t watch anymore news, ya know what to do-wash your hands, practice....when this all starts subsiding(hopefully soon) ya’ll will know.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 29, 2020, 08:55:47 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 29, 2020, 08:49:30 PM

Damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t. Where is our president?  Oh, he needs to get out of the way...he needs to listen to the “experts”, blah blah

There are many things he didn’t say that they say he did say.  He’s trying to be upbeat. Everyone needs to use a little critical thinking instead of laying on his every word. How many times do we need to hear, wash your hands, keep safe distances, stay at home if you can...?? 

The people here who do not like this admin, there is nothing, let me repeat, NOTHING he can say or do to change their minds about him.  So if you are in this category, get a squeeze ball, try yoga, meditate, and take care of yourselves cuz the president obviously is doing nothing more for you than p!ssing ya off anyway.

   Don’t watch anymore news, ya know what to do-wash your hands, practice....when this all starts subsiding(hopefully soon) ya’ll will know.

In the span of a week, he’s said we are “at war,” open everything up by Easter because the cure can’t be worse than the disease, and today he suggests social distancing last until April 30.

I mean, don’t you see a problem here?

Yes. He should listen to experts. (No idea why you put that in quotes. Apparently you’re a medical professional who doesn’t believe in medical science. Which is weird.) And he should be a leader who puts aside the pettiness and leads.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on March 29, 2020, 09:01:23 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 29, 2020, 08:44:49 PM

I've heard two stories this week of Trump slurpers who said they are completely done with him after this.  One is a medical worker reusing masks and the other has a Trump flag in his office and ripped down stating he's killing people.
Both indicated they are either voting Biden or not at all.

That settles it, I guess. Biden in a landslide!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Goose on March 29, 2020, 09:11:25 PM

I truthfully am too busy to spend time on here tonight, but sounds like everyone wishes he had a different style. Almost every criticism stems from his style, not the work being done. I will try and respond to the request of what I like about the job he is doing, but no time at the moment.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 29, 2020, 09:17:49 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 29, 2020, 08:49:30 PM

Damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t. Where is our president?  Oh, he needs to get out of the way...he needs to listen to the “experts”, blah blah

There are many things he didn’t say that they say he did say.  He’s trying to be upbeat. Everyone needs to use a little critical thinking instead of laying on his every word. How many times do we need to hear, wash your hands, keep safe distances, stay at home if you can...?? 

The people here who do not like this admin, there is nothing, let me repeat, NOTHING he can say or do to change their minds about him.  So if you are in this category, get a squeeze ball, try yoga, meditate, and take care of yourselves cuz the president obviously is doing nothing more for you than p!ssing ya off anyway.

   Don’t watch anymore news, ya know what to do-wash your hands, practice....when this all starts subsiding(hopefully soon) ya’ll will know.

Hmm nowhere in here does it mention the specifics of Cuomo asking for 30k ventilators and Trump saying he doesn't believe they are needed. Fauci then says they are needed. Trump gets asked a legit question about it and he denies he said it and then attacks black female journos, one of his frequent target groups. Rinse repeat. 1,2,3,4 enjoy the four links in order. Gee I don't know, my expectations are significantly  higher than the below example (pick your poison daily) of make outlandish statement without facts, get corrected by a more informed expert, blame the black lady for it, and celebrate your expert's dire death prediction as a success.

(My favorite today may be Trump trying to sell that 100k plus deaths would be a good thing instead of a few million.  ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND. The U.S. admin response has been a daily colossal disaster of the highest levels.)


https://twitter.com/morethanmySLE/status/1243573770436128769?s=19

https://twitter.com/DenbrotS/status/1244424991095042048?s=19

https://twitter.com/girlsreallyrule/status/1244400596649742337?s=19

https://twitter.com/keithboykin/status/1244436463644823552?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 29, 2020, 09:19:36 PM

The time in which he could have made a real difference is long past. It was frittered away through a concerted effort to minimize the seriousness of the situation. .

It's glaringly obvious he is incapable of leading the country through this. But he can still do something useful - get out of the way. Go play golf, tune into Fox & Friends and let the people who know what they're doing run the show.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 29, 2020, 09:49:40 PM

Umm well...that decision by Jerry Falwell Jr. to re-open Liberty University and have the kids on campus...well...uh...er...uh...it isn't going so swell.

Over a dozen kids already sick.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/29/us/politics/coronavirus-liberty-university-falwell.html#click=https://t.co/sglQgqzqo8

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on March 29, 2020, 09:55:18 PM

How anybody could ever ask for the leader of their country to handle this any differently is beyond me. Dumb libs.  ::)

“He effed up our response so badly that there’s really nothing left for him to do, so now the libs are just crying about what he says no matter what.”

I know I’m just glad April’s right around the corner. This thing is just going to disappear with that warmer weather, like a miracle.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 29, 2020, 09:59:39 PM

Quote from: wadesworld on March 29, 2020, 09:55:18 PM

How anybody could ever ask for the leader of their country to handle this any differently is beyond me. Dumb libs.  ::)

“He effed up our response so badly that there’s really nothing left for him to do, so now the libs are just crying about what he says no matter what.”

I know I’m just glad April’s right around the corner. This thing is just going to disappear with that warmer weather, like a miracle.

https://twitter.com/AustinKarp/status/1244420488711090184?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 29, 2020, 10:01:58 PM

Quote from: Goose on March 29, 2020, 09:11:25 PM

I truthfully am too busy to spend time on here tonight, but sounds like everyone wishes he had a different style. Almost every criticism stems from his style, not the work being done. I will try and respond to the request of what I like about the job he is doing, but no time at the moment.

Then you might want to get back to us when you have more time to actually read and think about our comments, because they are about much more than just “style.“

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 29, 2020, 10:09:23 PM

Today’s numbers show some hope. Cases were less than yesterday and deaths were way down.
A blip or part of a trend? Hopefully we start to see a flattening.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on March 29, 2020, 10:09:42 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 29, 2020, 09:59:39 PM

https://twitter.com/AustinKarp/status/1244420488711090184?s=19

Lol. That’s hilarious.

I “tuned in” to his briefing tonight because I was watching the Duke/Butler National Title game and it cut into it right at the ending. I then tried to switch over to the Falcons/Patriots game, but it was on there too, so then I tried to switch to 30 for 30 on ABC but it had cut into that too. So I watched the first couple minutes and then switched to reruns of Shark Tank.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 29, 2020, 10:28:30 PM

Does anyone know where all the testing facilities in our neighborhood Walmart's, Walgreens, CVS, Target, and Rite-Aid's are?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Spaniel with a Short Tail on March 29, 2020, 10:48:27 PM

I have heard from several non political friends that they religiously watch our governor daily briefings but can’t stand to watch the president’s because they can’t rely on anything he says.

DJT got caught by surprise with this pandemic. Same would have happened to a Dem president. However those early reckless comments downplaying the severity of the threat cannot be walked back now without him admitting that they did not take this seriously enough to start. He’s incapable of that. If he wants to impress the country he’d do that. We’re a forgiving nation and I believe that would be a step toward rallying the country (along with stop the insults, step aside and let the experts dictate our response, etc.).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 29, 2020, 10:52:48 PM

https://www.aei.org/research-products/report/national-coronavirus-response-a-road-map-to-reopening/

Great read.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on March 29, 2020, 11:14:19 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 29, 2020, 10:52:48 PM

https://www.aei.org/research-products/report/national-coronavirus-response-a-road-map-to-reopening/

Great read.

Excellent read, we’re a long ways from phase 2 being triggered.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: BM1090 on March 29, 2020, 11:20:03 PM

Quote from: Retire0 on March 29, 2020, 11:14:19 PM

Excellent read, we’re a long ways from phase 2 being triggered.

Gottlieb also said he thinks that at the end of April some states will be able to start re-opening, meaning those states will hit their peak and start declining in two weeks.

Hoping that's accurate but mentally preparing otherwise.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 29, 2020, 11:20:13 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 29, 2020, 10:52:48 PM

https://www.aei.org/research-products/report/national-coronavirus-response-a-road-map-to-reopening/

Great read.

Great find. I was especially struck by this observation:

Trigger to Move to Phase II. To guard against the risk that large outbreaks or epidemic spread could reignite once we lift our initial efforts to “slow the spread,” the trigger for a move to Phase II should be when a state reports a sustained reduction in cases for at least 14 days (i.e., one incubation period); and local hospitals are safely able to treat all patients requiring hospitalization without resorting to crisis standards of care; and the capacity exists in the state to test all people with COVID-19 symptoms, along with state capacity to conduct active monitoring of all confirmed cases and their contacts.

That’s pretty significant - for any single state to begin to reopen schools, businesses and the like, at a minimum it should have at least 2 weeks of sustained decreases in new cases AND it needs to have the capacity to test everyone with symptoms AND it needs to have the capacity to conduct active monitoring of all confirmed cases and their contacts AND local hospitals have to have the capacity to safely treat all cases.

By those measures, we might be months away from the first states beginning to reopen.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on March 29, 2020, 11:25:49 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 29, 2020, 11:20:13 PM

Great find. I was especially struck by this observation:

Trigger to Move to Phase II. To guard against the risk that large outbreaks or epidemic spread could reignite once we lift our initial efforts to “slow the spread,” the trigger for a move to Phase II should be when a state reports a sustained reduction in cases for at least 14 days (i.e., one incubation period); and local hospitals are safely able to treat all patients requiring hospitalization without resorting to crisis standards of care; and the capacity exists in the state to test all people with COVID-19 symptoms, along with state capacity to conduct active monitoring of all confirmed cases and their contacts.

That’s pretty significant - for any single state to begin to reopen schools, businesses and the like, at a minimum it should have at least 2 weeks of sustained decreases in new cases AND it needs to have the capacity to test everyone with symptoms AND it needs to have the capacity to conduct active monitoring of all confirmed cases and their contacts AND local hospitals have to have the capacity to safely treat all cases.

By those measures, we might be months away from the first states beginning to reopen.

See Florida is smart, why shut down to jump through those hoops to open back up?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 29, 2020, 11:28:04 PM

Quote from: muguru on March 29, 2020, 04:53:35 PM

I'm not the least bit surprised you would use the NY Times as a source for anything.

I'm not the least bit surprised you would criticize something without reading it, would ignore that right-leaning media have said many of the same things, and would be upset that many folks prefer actual factual facts to alternative facts.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 29, 2020, 11:53:10 PM

This just in:

Trump is conceding that there could be more than 100,000 deaths in the USA -- and that if that's all there are it will have been a job well done.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/29/politics/trump-deaths-coronavirus/index.html

It was only a month ago that he was insisting that the number of US cases "within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero" because "everything is really under control."

Now maybe he's finally listening, finally acknowledging reality? Maybe even he gets sick of lying?

Or maybe, as guru surely must think, he's simply "accepting mediocrity."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Johnny B on March 30, 2020, 12:23:41 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 29, 2020, 09:49:40 PM

Umm well...that decision by Jerry Falwell Jr. to re-open Liberty University and have the kids on campus...well...uh...er...uh...it isn't going so swell.

Over a dozen kids already sick.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/29/us/politics/coronavirus-liberty-university-falwell.html#click=https://t.co/sglQgqzqo8

Absolute lunatic with blood on his hands

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 30, 2020, 12:52:57 AM

Quote from: forgetful on March 29, 2020, 10:28:30 PM

Does anyone know where all the testing facilities in our neighborhood Walmart's, Walgreens, CVS, Target, and Rite-Aid's are?

You must not "want" to be tested.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 30, 2020, 12:57:08 AM

Quote from: Goose on March 29, 2020, 09:11:25 PM

I truthfully am too busy to spend time on here tonight, but sounds like everyone wishes he had a different style. Almost every criticism stems from his style, not the work being done. I will try and respond to the request of what I like about the job he is doing, but no time at the moment.

Is there an alternate reality in which you reside?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 30, 2020, 01:33:03 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 29, 2020, 08:55:47 PM

In the span of a week, he’s said we are “at war,” open everything up by Easter because the cure can’t be worse than the disease, and today he suggests social distancing last until April 30.

I mean, don’t you see a problem here?

Yes. He should listen to experts. (No idea why you put that in quotes. Apparently you’re a medical professional who doesn’t believe in medical science. Which is weird.) And he should be a leader who puts aside the pettiness and leads.

You’re a “smart” guy sully, that also qualifies you as an “expert” get it? 

I don’t believe in medical science??  Who the *#*#@ are you to judge me on anything?  You know me but a very small microcosm of what appears here.  Some of my stuff more serious than others.  btw, Your dry psychological b.s doesn’t fly with most here. 

   If you didn’t understand my post, you are either being purposefully ignorant or doing your usual troll in order to get into some kind of sophisticated argument.  My post was my post; nothing more, nothing less

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 30, 2020, 05:41:37 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 29, 2020, 10:52:48 PM

https://www.aei.org/research-products/report/national-coronavirus-response-a-road-map-to-reopening/

Great read.

This is one of the main studies discussed in the WaPo article I posted a few pages back.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: LON on March 30, 2020, 06:02:01 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 29, 2020, 08:49:30 PM

Damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t. Where is our president?  Oh, he needs to get out of the way...he needs to listen to the “experts”, blah blah

There are many things he didn’t say that they say he did say.  He’s trying to be upbeat. Everyone needs to use a little critical thinking instead of laying on his every word. How many times do we need to hear, wash your hands, keep safe distances, stay at home if you can...?? 

The people here who do not like this admin, there is nothing, let me repeat, NOTHING he can say or do to change their minds about him.  So if you are in this category, get a squeeze ball, try yoga, meditate, and take care of yourselves cuz the president obviously is doing nothing more for you than p!ssing ya off anyway.

   Don’t watch anymore news, ya know what to do-wash your hands, practice....when this all starts subsiding(hopefully soon) ya’ll will know.

There is video proof of him saying things that there is later video proof of him denying saying those things. Stop being dumb.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Bo Ryan's Massage Therapist on March 30, 2020, 07:10:34 AM

This is something that amazes me.  There is proof after proof of his lies.  Yet his supporters turn a blind eye to it.  He lies so much I don’t think he even remembers what he said.  This is a global crisis and the American people need leadership.   He claimed this was a hoax a month ago.  Last week he claimed Easter was the target date to reopen despite the experts all disagreeing.

 As a health care worker who is a conservative, I am done.  Medical workers across the country have had inadequate PPE and tonight in his press conference he accused NYC health care workers of stealing masks.  Get us the damn PPE!  Stop worrying about governors not being appreciative enough.  We should have a coronavirus czar like we did with Ebola, but he cut funding thus eliminating that position

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 30, 2020, 07:28:29 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 30, 2020, 01:33:03 AM

You’re a “smart” guy sully, that also qualifies you as an “expert” get it? 

I don’t believe in medical science??  Who the *#*#@ are you to judge me on anything?  You know me but a very small microcosm of what appears here.  Some of my stuff more serious than others.  btw, Your dry psychological b.s doesn’t fly with most here. 

   If you didn’t understand my post, you are either being purposefully ignorant or doing your usual troll in order to get into some kind of sophisticated argument.  My post was my post; nothing more, nothing less

Lol. The truth hurts huh?  Enough to actually cause you to use proper punctuation.

If you don’t want me to judge you, don’t say ignorant stuff.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on March 30, 2020, 08:01:41 AM

Quote from: MU82 on March 29, 2020, 11:53:10 PM

This just in:

Trump is conceding that there could be more than 100,000 deaths in the USA -- and that if that's all there are it will have been a job well done.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/29/politics/trump-deaths-coronavirus/index.html

It was only a month ago that he was insisting that the number of US cases "within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero" because "everything is really under control."

Now maybe he's finally listening, finally acknowledging reality? Maybe even he gets sick of lying?

Or maybe, as guru surely must think, he's simply "accepting mediocrity."

Nah, just some good ol' fashion (https://www.idioms4you.com/img/angif-move-the-goalposts-def.gif)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 30, 2020, 08:34:20 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 29, 2020, 10:52:48 PM

https://www.aei.org/research-products/report/national-coronavirus-response-a-road-map-to-reopening/

Great read.

Great read gives some hope with the planned/phased approach and answers my question as to how do we not just fall back to shut down once the curve is flattened

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 30, 2020, 08:43:43 AM

Article in today's paper about how people are now littering parking lots of supermarkets and streets with used latex gloves.
They have the inability to throw in trash containers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 30, 2020, 08:44:25 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 30, 2020, 08:35:16 AM

Thanks everyone for your replies. Almost 100% as expected. Perhaps the President should just stand up in the briefings with his penis in hand and just say we're all totally fooked. Your lives are over, things will never be the same as they were a month ago, and y'all should curl up.
Face it, he is leading the world's greatest nation through unchartered waters and doing an outstanding job of it.
Man, help us all if that idiot, Uncle Joe and Super Thursday, was in power. Dude is so senile he's incapable of grabbing both ass cheeks with either hand, hey?

Uncharted waters for sure 4ever. 

To date, we are decidedly average in healthcare response as ranked against all other countries responding.  Harder to say where we rank versus developed countries until we are on the other side.  We can still pull together to get through this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 30, 2020, 08:46:42 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 30, 2020, 08:35:16 AM

Thanks everyone for your replies. Almost 100% as expected. Perhaps the President should just stand up in the briefings with his penis in hand and just say we're all totally fooked. Your lives are over, things will never be the same as they were a month ago, and y'all should curl up.
Face it, he is leading the world's greatest nation through unchartered waters and doing an outstanding job of it.
Man, help us all if that idiot, Uncle Joe and Super Thursday, was in power. Dude is so senile he's incapable of grabbing both ass cheeks with either hand, hey?

That is not what ANY of us said. And hyperbole does not help your argument.

Again for clarity: We basically want honesty, sincerity, empathy, humility, and nonpartisanship. If you haven't watched it yet, watch Angela Merkel's speech to Germany for a good example. She exhibited all of these attributes without saying "we're totally fooked and y'all should curl up."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 30, 2020, 08:46:56 AM

This is something that amazes me.  There is proof after proof of his lies.  Yet his supporters turn a blind eye to it.  He lies so much I don’t think he even remembers what he said.”


  Yes, there are many who like to joke around about Hillary’s sexuality, but she lost the electoral college by A LOT

With all due respect you are not a conservative.  This ain’t about fishes and loaves and water and wine here.  This started out like a slow stink bomb that has been engulfing us.  He was acting on what he saw before anyone else and got his sh,t handed to him then.  He’s acting now and huh?  He’s getting his sh!t handed to him. In the mean time, is rating of how he is handling this is around 60% or higher.  Anyone else, we would have had a Tony Evers response and that, for our nation, would have been catastrophic

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 30, 2020, 08:49:33 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 30, 2020, 08:35:16 AM

Face it, he is leading the world's greatest nation through unchartered waters and doing an outstanding job of it.
Man, help us all if that idiot, Uncle Joe and Super Thursday, was in power. Dude is so senile he's incapable of grabbing both ass cheeks with either hand, hey?

How is he doing an "outstanding job?"  He's sent mixed messages, including the cure shouldn't be worse than the disease line form last week, which has caused a bunch of governors to shut down nothing.  And now reports are Florida is in real danger because no regulations have been put in place.  And meanwhile his Easter deadline has now been moved to the end of April.

Again, you don't see this as a problem?

I would agree that he has done a number of good things.  And again I don't care about his need to self-congratulate himself.  But that falls well short of "outstanding."  Especially since he completely minimized it to begin with.

His action STILL needs to be more decisive. 

But I'm with you on Joe. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 30, 2020, 08:52:24 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 30, 2020, 08:46:56 AM

With all due respect you are not a conservative.  This ain’t about fishes and loaves and water and wine here.  This started out like a slow stink bomb that has been engulfing us.  He was acting on what he saw before anyone else and got his sh,t handed to him then.

That is 100% false.  100%.  Just look at what was being said in this topic when his minions and him were minimizing it.  People knew it was coming.  People sounded the alarm bells weeks before it became a problem. 

You can stick your head in the sand all you want. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 30, 2020, 09:05:59 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 30, 2020, 08:35:16 AM

Thanks everyone for your replies. Almost 100% as expected. Perhaps the President should just stand up in the briefings with his penis in hand and just say we're all totally fooked. Your lives are over, things will never be the same as they were a month ago, and y'all should curl up.
Face it, he is leading the world's greatest nation through unchartered waters and doing an outstanding job of it.
Man, help us all if that idiot, Uncle Joe and Super Thursday, was in power. Dude is so senile he's incapable of grabbing both ass cheeks with either hand, hey?

It never ceases to amaze how some otherwise completely intelligent people have been duped by this guy, turning them into Fox News-regurgitating automatons who willfully blind themselves to reality.

 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 30, 2020, 09:08:35 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 30, 2020, 08:46:56 AM

This is something that amazes me.  There is proof after proof of his lies.  Yet his supporters turn a blind eye to it.  He lies so much I don’t think he even remembers what he said.”


  Yes, there are many who like to joke around about Hillary’s sexuality, but she lost the electoral college by A LOT

With all due respect you are not a conservative.  This ain’t about fishes and loaves and water and wine here.  This started out like a slow stink bomb that has been engulfing us.  He was acting on what he saw before anyone else and got his sh,t handed to him then.  He’s acting now and huh?  He’s getting his sh!t handed to him. In the mean time, is rating of how he is handling this is around 60% or higher.  Anyone else, we would have had a Tony Evers response and that, for our nation, would have been catastrophic

Historically many Presidents get an initial bump in approval ratings during a crisis. Jimmy Carter's approval rating increased 26% during the first few months if the Iran hostage crisis for example. By contrast Trump's approval rating has stayed relatively flat to his predecessors who received much larger bumps.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 30, 2020, 09:09:15 AM

Coronavirus Slowdown in Seattle Suggest Restrictions Are Working.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/29/us/seattle-washington-state-coronavirus-transmission-rate.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

"The Seattle area, home of the first known coronavirus case in the United States and the place where the virus claimed 37 of its first 50 victims, is now seeing evidence that strict containment strategies, imposed in the earliest days of the outbreak, are beginning to pay off — at least for now."
__________

Given that a few weeks ago, all we heard about COVID was "Seattle, Seattle, Seattle," it's promising to realize that they have moved well off center stage since imposing the strict containment measures. It is also notable that Seattle's containment (and research about its results) seems to have benefited from some of the most widespread testing in the country.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 30, 2020, 09:11:49 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 30, 2020, 08:35:16 AM

Thanks everyone for your replies. Almost 100% as expected. Perhaps the President should just stand up in the briefings with his penis in hand and just say we're all totally fooked. Your lives are over, things will never be the same as they were a month ago, and y'all should curl up.
Face it, he is leading the world's greatest nation through unchartered waters and doing an outstanding job of it.
Man, help us all if that idiot, Uncle Joe and Super Thursday, was in power. Dude is so senile he's incapable of grabbing both ass cheeks with either hand, hey?

Currently, states are being forced into bidding wars against each other for PPE and ventilators.  Why hasn't the President of the United States of America stepped in and said, "enough is enough"?

Impotence or ignorance?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 30, 2020, 09:17:15 AM

Lots of posts here have been reported .. too many to remove, frankly.

Do we need to lock this thread?  Is that what you guys need to behave?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Johnny B on March 30, 2020, 09:36:28 AM

Jeez who cares if one thread is political. Dont read it. Theres not much else to talk about going forward so might as well allow it for a few months. Very difficult to fully isolate coronavirus news etc from the political aspect of it if were being honest. Some of the comments give me some laughs in these ominous times.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 30, 2020, 09:37:13 AM

Quote from: Johnny B on March 30, 2020, 09:36:28 AM

Jeez who cares if one thread is political. Dont read it. Theres not much else to talk about going forward so might as well allow it for a few months. Very difficult to fully isolate coronavirus news etc from the political aspect of it if were being honest. Some of the comments give me some laughs in these ominous times.

Go find any number of boards that exist on the internet.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 30, 2020, 09:38:35 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 30, 2020, 09:05:59 AM

It never ceases to amaze how some otherwise completely intelligent people have been duped by this guy, turning them into Fox News-regurgitating automatons who willfully blind themselves to reality.

goes both ways buddy...btw, what are the ratings of your 14 sources which should really be registered as 401c3's as opposed to "news" organizations with real "journalists"   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Johnny B on March 30, 2020, 09:40:52 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 30, 2020, 09:37:13 AM

Go find any number of boards that exist on the internet.

How about dont read the thread. Some people not wanting politics on the entire board shouldnt mean nobody should be allowed to discuss. Doesnt make sense.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 30, 2020, 09:46:16 AM

Quote from: Johnny B on March 30, 2020, 09:40:52 AM

How about dont read the thread. Some people not wanting politics on the entire board shouldnt mean nobody should be allowed to discuss. Doesnt make sense.

Tried before, it spilled into the other threads and other boards. We can't have nice things.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 30, 2020, 10:05:44 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 30, 2020, 09:38:35 AM

goes both ways buddy...btw, what are the ratings of your 14 sources which should really be registered as 401c3's as opposed to "news" organizations with real "journalists"   

Honestly have no clue of what you're talking about.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 30, 2020, 10:19:42 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 30, 2020, 08:52:24 AM

That is 100% false.  100%.  Just look at what was being said in this topic when his minions and him were minimizing it.  People knew it was coming.  People sounded the alarm bells weeks before it became a problem. 

You can stick your head in the sand all you want.

It's what people in the Fox news bubble believe.  That's what they've been told and they've gobbled it down without the slightest bit of critical thinking.

We are in a major global health crisis.  There are tons and tons of news sources out there.  One would think everyone would want to be as informed as possible, but that isn't how it works, apparently.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 30, 2020, 10:20:25 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 30, 2020, 09:09:15 AM

Coronavirus Slowdown in Seattle Suggest Restrictions Are Working.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/29/us/seattle-washington-state-coronavirus-transmission-rate.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

"The Seattle area, home of the first known coronavirus case in the United States and the place where the virus claimed 37 of its first 50 victims, is now seeing evidence that strict containment strategies, imposed in the earliest days of the outbreak, are beginning to pay off — at least for now."
__________

Given that a few weeks ago, all we heard about COVID was "Seattle, Seattle, Seattle," it's promising to realize that they have moved well off center stage since imposing the strict containment measures. It is also notable that Seattle's containment (and research about its results) seems to have benefited from some of the most widespread testing in the country.

I was going to post this, too. Thanks for doing it first, Goooooooooooooo.

On a personal note, my daughter lives in Seattle so this really hits home for me. I am encouraged, cautiously optimistic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 30, 2020, 10:29:15 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 30, 2020, 08:52:24 AM

That is 100% false.  100%.  Just look at what was being said in this topic when his minions and him were minimizing it.  People knew it was coming.  People sounded the alarm bells weeks before it became a problem. 

You can stick your head in the sand all you want.

It's amazing how willing folks are to pretend that their hero didn't say the things he said and do the things he did. Any 1-minute Google search will show the dishonest, dangerous, spiteful, ignorant, self-aggrandizing things he said about this pandemic, and will recount the many ways he willfully ignored facts and expert advice.

They just parrot President Pandemic himself saying what a wonderful job he's done. Why, he's now saying that if there are only 100,000 deaths it will be a sign of his wonderful work, and his sycophants just nod their heads in agreement.

I'd say it's unbelievable, but by now it should surprise nobody. Gotta give the man credit for being right about one thing he said 4 years ago: "You know what else they say about my people? The polls, they say I have the most loyal people. Did you ever see that? Where I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose any voters, okay? It’s like incredible."

Yes, like, it is incredible that so many otherwise intelligent people would be so willing to be conned by a guy who has been a charlatan his entire life.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 30, 2020, 10:30:19 AM

Can someone explain to me the massive shipment of PPE to China when Covid was just hitting the US? Was that a big F up on our part or do we stand by global generosity where if Chinas Medical staff can't change masks and gowns then ours can't either.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 30, 2020, 10:44:47 AM

Words matter, actions matter:

https://twitter.com/JamilSmith/status/1244630999993966598?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Spaniel with a Short Tail on March 30, 2020, 10:47:49 AM

Quote from: keefe on March 30, 2020, 09:39:37 AM

Lock Her Up! Lock Her Up! Lock Her Up!

Oh...wait a minute...

Lock It Up! Lock It Up! Lock It Up!

When I read this post
I confess to LOL
But wish she led us

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 30, 2020, 10:51:51 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 30, 2020, 10:19:42 AM

It's what people in the Fox news bubble believe.  That's what they've been told and they've gobbled it down without the slightest bit of critical thinking.

We are in a major global health crisis.  There are tons and tons of news sources out there.  One would think everyone would want to be as informed as possible, but that isn't how it works, apparently.

But Brawndo's got what plants crave. It's got electrolytes.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 30, 2020, 10:52:25 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 30, 2020, 10:44:47 AM

Words matter, actions matter:

https://twitter.com/JamilSmith/status/1244630999993966598?s=19

More blood on his hands.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JuniorCardigan on March 30, 2020, 11:11:32 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 29, 2020, 09:49:40 PM

Umm well...that decision by Jerry Falwell Jr. to re-open Liberty University and have the kids on campus...well...uh...er...uh...it isn't going so swell.

Over a dozen kids already sick.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/29/us/politics/coronavirus-liberty-university-falwell.html#click=https://t.co/sglQgqzqo8

Opening up your campus and letting some of your students die to....own the libs?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 30, 2020, 11:12:29 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 30, 2020, 10:44:47 AM

Words matter, actions matter:

https://twitter.com/JamilSmith/status/1244630999993966598?s=19

Another example of the "outstanding leadership" 4ever talked about.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 30, 2020, 11:15:00 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 30, 2020, 10:51:51 AM

But Brawndo's got what plants crave. It's got electrolytes.

Plays like a documentary these days

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on March 30, 2020, 11:21:04 AM

Cutting the pandemic response team was outstanding leadership. Why would we need that?

Having many experts trying to warn him about what was coming and refusing to listen. Why would we look at what was already happening throughout the world and prepare accordingly? Outstanding leadership.

Minimizing the risks, claiming this will just go away, etc. has totally served this country perfectly. What great leadership.

Honestly how anybody, regardless of political alignment, can think the “leader” of what was once the greatest country in the world has completely failed to lead this country when it comes to the coronavirus is beyond me. He couldn’t have possibly handled this any worse, and he had the benefit of seeing it play out in other countries before it even arrived here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 30, 2020, 11:22:37 AM

This is what I was referencing

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/29/opinions/coronavirus-personal-protective-equipment-obeidallah/index.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 30, 2020, 11:41:14 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 30, 2020, 11:22:37 AM

This is what I was referencing

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/29/opinions/coronavirus-personal-protective-equipment-obeidallah/index.html

Heck, I have no problem with the aspect of sending the material to where it was needed at the time.  The problem was that there was no response, no recognition, of the need that would be coming here and gearing up accordingly.  That was never done.

U.S. Intelligence was briefing the president throughout January and February that this was almost certainly a global pandemic.  I dunno, maybe he doesn't know the U.S. is part of the globe, or maybe there was magical thinking that we were somehow immune.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on March 30, 2020, 12:11:05 PM

Quote from: Spaniel with a Short Tail on March 30, 2020, 10:47:49 AM

When I read this post
I confess to LOL
But wish she led us

Not sure what you could have expected one of the most tested politicians of our lifetime could have expected to do differently in these circumstances.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: LON on March 30, 2020, 12:38:06 PM

Quote from: GB Warrior on March 30, 2020, 12:11:05 PM

Not sure what you could have expected one of the most tested politicians of our lifetime could have expected to do differently in these circumstances.

Not lie? Fairly low bar to achieve I would think. But here we are.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 30, 2020, 01:00:42 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 30, 2020, 09:08:35 AM

Historically many Presidents get an initial bump in approval ratings during a crisis. Jimmy Carter's approval rating increased 26% during the first few months if the Iran hostage crisis for example. By contrast Trump's approval rating has stayed relatively flat to his predecessors who received much larger bumps.

Here are Cuomo's favorability ratings by comparison:

His increased 54% from February to March. And he has a 71% favorability rating overall, 87% from New Yorkers.

https://twitter.com/adam_brew/status/1244663103087874049?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 30, 2020, 01:22:22 PM

Quote from: GB Warrior on March 30, 2020, 12:11:05 PM

Not sure what you could have expected one of the most tested politicians of our lifetime could have expected to do differently in these circumstances.

First of all, he/she would not have eliminated the pandemic response team two years earlier.

Second, he/she would have listened to their recommendations.

Third, he/she would have followed their recommendations.

So...putting experts in the right places, and listening to them when they give you advice.

Oh, yeah -- and he/she would have been honest with the American public.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 30, 2020, 01:25:26 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 30, 2020, 11:41:14 AM

Heck, I have no problem with the aspect of sending the material to where it was needed at the time.  The problem was that there was no response, no recognition, of the need that would be coming here and gearing up accordingly.  That was never done.

U.S. Intelligence was briefing the president throughout January and February that this was almost certainly a global pandemic.  I dunno, maybe he doesn't know the U.S. is part of the globe, or maybe there was magical thinking that we were somehow immune.

Especially considering that he later claimed to be the first one to realize it was a pandemic, long before the WHO or CDC did.

He is the Jim Lovitz SNL character Tommy Flanagan. "I dated Morgan Fairchild. Yeah. That's the ticket!"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on March 30, 2020, 01:26:37 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 30, 2020, 01:22:22 PM

First of all, he/she would not have eliminated the pandemic response team two years earlier.

Second, he/she would have listened to their recommendations.

Third, he/she would have followed their recommendations.

So...putting experts in the right places, and listening to them when they give you advice.

Oh, yeah -- and he/she would have been honest with the American public.

I would have thought my sarcasm was obvious. Clinton was clearly more ready to be president than just about every politician that came before her at every level of the federal government.

We would have had deaths here, but it would not be for lack of preparation, transparency, inter agency and federal/state communication.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on March 30, 2020, 01:32:19 PM

Quote from: GB Warrior on March 30, 2020, 01:26:37 PM

I would have thought my sarcasm was obvious. Clinton was clearly more ready to be president than just about every politician that came before her at every level of the federal government.

We would have had deaths here, but it would not be for lack of preparation, transparency, inter agency and federal/state communication.

In an attempt to connect with the average citizen, I bet her advisory quarantine notices would have been sent from her private email.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 30, 2020, 01:42:10 PM

Quote from: GB Warrior on March 30, 2020, 01:26:37 PM

I would have thought my sarcasm was obvious. Clinton was clearly more ready to be president than just about every politician that came before her at every level of the federal government.

We would have had deaths here, but it would not be for lack of preparation, transparency, inter agency and federal/state communication.

My bad.

And I agree with every word you said above.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on March 30, 2020, 01:56:42 PM

Drug companies are starting to get some things into the hands of docs for testing.

https://www.techtimes.com/articles/248421/20200328/covid-19-patients-show-sign-progress-after-taking-in-development-hiv-and-breast-cancer-drug-now-free-from-ventilators.htm

Fingers crossed that more stuff like this takes hold and really starts to move the needle. Even reducing the amount of time on ventilator would be a big help to lessening the burden on ICUs.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 30, 2020, 03:24:56 PM

Quote from: jficke13 on March 30, 2020, 01:56:42 PM

Drug companies are starting to get some things into the hands of docs for testing.

https://www.techtimes.com/articles/248421/20200328/covid-19-patients-show-sign-progress-after-taking-in-development-hiv-and-breast-cancer-drug-now-free-from-ventilators.htm

Fingers crossed that more stuff like this takes hold and really starts to move the needle. Even reducing the amount of time on ventilator would be a big help to lessening the burden on ICUs.

Yep - great to see progress.

J&J also hopes to begin clinical trials of a coronavirus vaccine by September.

https://www.jnj.com/johnson-johnson-announces-a-lead-vaccine-candidate-for-covid-19-landmark-new-partnership-with-u-s-department-of-health-human-services-and-commitment-to-supply-one-billion-vaccines-worldwide-for-emergency-pandemic-use

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 30, 2020, 04:54:42 PM

This is great news if we follow through. 

 https://thehill.com/homenews/media/490166-foxs-boothe-wh-looking-into-random-coronavirus-test-sampling-of-us-population (https://thehill.com/homenews/media/490166-foxs-boothe-wh-looking-into-random-coronavirus-test-sampling-of-us-population)

Lots of signals that the health crisis is getting more and real attention.  To me those are this, the docs communicating the severity of the death potential, trump referencing an unmitigated scenario.  Not good but positive developments that get us through this. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Golden Avalanche on March 30, 2020, 07:27:43 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 30, 2020, 01:00:42 PM

Here are Cuomo's favorability ratings by comparison:

His increased 54% from February to March. And he has a 71% favorability rating overall, 87% from New Yorkers.

https://twitter.com/adam_brew/status/1244663103087874049?s=19

Lest anyone think it's an apples to oranges comparison, most people of either stripe in the NYC metro think Cuomo is a blowhard, grandstanding, buffoonish narcissist born on third base with a silver spoon.    Sound familiar?

Even in the reality that it is your default disposition a large majority of people will respond positively to your efforts so long as your empathic, honest, sincere, and earnest. One guy embraced it. The other did not. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Lens on March 30, 2020, 07:43:17 PM

This is direct from White House.gov's transcript:

Quote

Q    Thank you, Mr. President.  You said several times that the United States has ramped up testing.  I’ll just talk a little quicker — or a little louder.

Mr. President, you said several times that the United States has ramped up testing, but the United States is still not testing per capita as many people as other countries like South Korea.  Why is that?  And when do you think that that number will be on par with other countries?

And Dr. —

THE PRESIDENT:  Yeah, well, it’s — it’s very much on par.

Q    Not per capita —

THE PRESIDENT:  Look — look — per capita.  We have areas of country that’s very tight.  I know South Korea better than anybody.  It’s a — very tight.  Do you know how many people are in Seoul? Do you know how big the city of Seoul is?

Q    But the question is about (inaudible).

THE PRESIDENT:  Thirty-eight million people. That’s bigger than anything we have.  Thirty-eight million people all tightly wound together.

We have vast farmlands.  We have vast areas where they don’t have much of a problem.  In some cases, they have no problem whatsoever.  We have done more tests.  What I didn’t — I didn’t talk about per capita.  We have done more tests, by far, than any country in the world, by far.

Our testing is also better than any country in the world.  And when you look at that, as simple as that looks, that’s something that’s a game changer, and every country wants that.  Every country.

So rather than asking a question like that, you should congratulate the people that have done this testing, because we inherited — this administration inherited a broken system, a system that was obsolete, a system that didn’t work.  It was okay for a tiny, small group of people, but once you got beyond that, it didn’t work.

We have built an incredible system to the fact, where we have now done more tests than any other country in the world.  And now the technology is really booming.

I just spoke to — well, I spoke to a lot.  I’m not going to even mention.  I spoke to a number of different testing companies today, and the job that they’ve done and the job that they’re doing is incredible.

---------------------------------------

What is Seoul's population?  It's 9.7 million.  The metro area is 25 million.  But for absolutely no reason at all he feels the need to tell the American people that he knows South Korea better than anyone.  How does this help?  And then he's wrong.  And that doesn't even matter because of our last 7-8 Presidents, I would guess only Obama and maybe GHWB would know that population.  But why introduce it into the talk.  It serves no good.  In a crisis he's bragging about his South Korea knowledge.  We have never seen this.   I am a life long GOPer and I just face palm every time he talks.  It's unreal. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on March 30, 2020, 07:48:48 PM

https://twitter.com/AdamTaylorBates/status/1244749627745845254?s=20

Trump just said Seoul has "38 million people" in it. That's such an oddly wrong and yet specific number, I did a google search for Seoul.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUY9LGbWoAE6o4b?format=png&name=900x900)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 30, 2020, 08:22:54 PM

In another thread someone pointed out that Abbott labs created a quick test and can pump out 50k a day. Awesome, right?
Just think in 20 short years, they will have produced enough to test everyone in America.....once.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 30, 2020, 08:25:26 PM

Quote from: jficke13 on March 30, 2020, 07:48:48 PM

https://twitter.com/AdamTaylorBates/status/1244749627745845254?s=20

Trump just said Seoul has "38 million people" in it. That's such an oddly wrong and yet specific number, I did a google search for Seoul.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUY9LGbWoAE6o4b?format=png&name=900x900)

The dude seriously needs to learn to say "I don't know" or just shut his mouth when he doesn't know something. He starts sentences without knowing where he will end up, and just keeps going.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 30, 2020, 08:44:46 PM

This is significant.

@StarTribune: The University of Minnesota and Mayo Clinic are close to unveiling antibody tests that can determine if people have already been infected by the coronavirus that caused COVID-19 and are no longer threats to get or spread the infection. http://strib.mn/3bAks3J

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 30, 2020, 08:48:15 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 30, 2020, 08:44:46 PM

This is significant.

@StarTribune: The University of Minnesota and Mayo Clinic are close to unveiling antibody tests that can determine if people have already been infected by the coronavirus that caused COVID-19 and are no longer threats to get or spread the infection. http://strib.mn/3bAks3J

Now this would be absolutely massive

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 30, 2020, 09:00:35 PM

Jockey (the company, not the poster) is making PPE for the corona-fight.  Kenosha based.

https://www.kenoshanews.com/news/local/jockey-donating-ppe-nationally-locally-in-fight-against-coronavirus-announcement/article_52eb3255-f1f3-558c-9c53-389f5de4a28e.html (https://www.kenoshanews.com/news/local/jockey-donating-ppe-nationally-locally-in-fight-against-coronavirus-announcement/article_52eb3255-f1f3-558c-9c53-389f5de4a28e.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 30, 2020, 09:09:11 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 30, 2020, 08:44:46 PM

This is significant.

@StarTribune: The University of Minnesota and Mayo Clinic are close to unveiling antibody tests that can determine if people have already been infected by the coronavirus that caused COVID-19 and are no longer threats to get or spread the infection. http://strib.mn/3bAks3J

Nice job Mayo.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 30, 2020, 09:17:17 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 30, 2020, 09:00:35 PM

Jockey (the company, not the poster) is making PPE for the corona-fight.  Kenosha based.

https://www.kenoshanews.com/news/local/jockey-donating-ppe-nationally-locally-in-fight-against-coronavirus-announcement/article_52eb3255-f1f3-558c-9c53-389f5de4a28e.html (https://www.kenoshanews.com/news/local/jockey-donating-ppe-nationally-locally-in-fight-against-coronavirus-announcement/article_52eb3255-f1f3-558c-9c53-389f5de4a28e.html)

Hot damn!  A big dittos out to jockey(under britches that is) I think I’m going to have to start wearin undies again and get straight to the jockey store

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 30, 2020, 09:32:29 PM

btw, chloroquine and hydroxychlorquine with zithromycin(zpack) is working!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 30, 2020, 09:37:23 PM

Quote from: The Lens on March 30, 2020, 07:43:17 PM

This is direct from White House.gov's transcript:

---------------------------------------

What is Seoul's population?  It's 9.7 million.  The metro area is 25 million.  But for absolutely no reason at all he feels the need to tell the American people that he knows South Korea better than anyone.  How does this help?  And then he's wrong.  And that doesn't even matter because of our last 7-8 Presidents, I would guess only Obama and maybe GHWB would know that population.  But why introduce it into the talk.  It serves no good.  In a crisis he's bragging about his South Korea knowledge.  We have never seen this.   I am a life long GOPer and I just face palm every time he talks.  It's unreal.

There was a video a while back of all the times Trump has said "I know more about XX than anyone". something like 23 different topics. Lying about your expertise is another of 4ever's examples of "outstanding leadership".

You know, there are lots and lots of people who have spent their wholes lives studying infectious diseases. Why don't we let them share their expertise and information at this time?

Ah, here it is: he knows more than everyone else about every single subject.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR3f95BGIiA

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 30, 2020, 09:39:45 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 30, 2020, 09:32:29 PM

btw, chloroquine and hydroxychlorquine with zithromycin(zpack) is working!!

Can you provide a link to a double blind study with controls?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 30, 2020, 09:47:02 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 30, 2020, 09:39:45 PM

Can you provide a link to a double blind study with controls?

http: seaninnanity.com

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 30, 2020, 09:51:30 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 30, 2020, 09:39:45 PM

Can you provide a link to a double blind study with controls?

Nope

The studies are in numerous real life recoveries of real lives, but maybe if you’d ask the same of those people who’s loved ones are here to talk about their experiences today, they might be able to help ya out

If you have access to wsj, they have a nice write up

https://www.wsj.com/articles/these-drugs-are-helping-our-coronavirus-patients-11584899438

A few drug companies are pledging 10’s of millions of doses to hospitals nationwide

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Bo Ryan's Massage Therapist on March 30, 2020, 09:52:30 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 30, 2020, 09:32:29 PM

btw, chloroquine and hydroxychlorquine with zithromycin(zpack) is working!!

It’s working for some critically ill patients. For others it is not and they are dying. In dentistry school do they teach you the difference between anecdotal evidence and double blinded studies? If not, stay in your lane. And to respond to your previous response to me... I am a conservative. I voted for this idiot and every other GOP president before him. The difference is I can take off the blinders despite it not fitting my political party.  He has f’ed this up beyond belief.  If I seem angry, it’s because I am. You’re welcome to come see patients with me that I can’t test and don’t have the PPE to protect myself from once you get back from Arizona ... then tell me how the president is doing.  He is a narcissistic liar

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 30, 2020, 09:52:43 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 30, 2020, 09:47:02 PM

http: seaninnanity.com

Sure in the hell ain't gonna find it on www.unclejoe.com

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 30, 2020, 09:53:37 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 30, 2020, 09:09:11 PM

Nice job Mayo.

And people thought Todd wouldn't amount to anything.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 30, 2020, 09:55:45 PM

Quote from: Bo Ryan's Massage Therapist on March 30, 2020, 09:52:30 PM

It’s working for some critically ill patients. For others it is not and they are dying. In dentistry school do they teach you the difference between anecdotal evidence and double blinded studies? If not, stay in your lane. And to respond to your previous response to me... I am a conservative. I voted for this idiot and every other GOP president before him. The difference is I can take off the blinders despite it not fitting my political party.  He has f’ed this up beyond belief.  If I seem angry, it’s because I am. You’re welcome to come see patients with me that I can’t test and don’t have the PPE to protect myself from once you get back from Arizona ... then tell me how the president is doing.  He is a narcissistic liar

Sorry to see ya waver...hope ya feel better...have a good night

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 30, 2020, 09:57:56 PM

The United States and South Korea had their first cases on the same day. The U.S. has had 3,138 deaths since, including 593 in the past 24 hours. South Korea has had 158.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 30, 2020, 09:59:02 PM

Quote from: Bo Ryan's Massage Therapist on March 30, 2020, 09:52:30 PM

It’s working for some critically ill patients. For others it is not and they are dying. In dentistry school do they teach you the difference between anecdotal evidence and double blinded studies? If not, stay in your lane. And to respond to your previous response to me... I am a conservative. I voted for this idiot and every other GOP president before him. The difference is I can take off the blinders despite it not fitting my political party.  He has f’ed this up beyond belief.  If I seem angry, it’s because I am. You’re welcome to come see patients with me that I can’t test and don’t have the PPE to protect myself from once you get back from Arizona ... then tell me how the president is doing.  He is a narcissistic liar

Stay safe! Doing your job without protective gear...wow.  Truly hope you get what you need ASAP.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 30, 2020, 10:01:04 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 30, 2020, 09:52:43 PM

Sure in the hell ain't gonna find it on www.unclejoe.com

Good boy. Regurgitate what ever Fox tells you.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Bo Ryan's Massage Therapist on March 30, 2020, 10:40:09 PM

We went from 15 American cases... this will soon be over, to “this is the next Democratic hoax” to “100,000 American deaths is a strong possibility and would be a success.”  There have been 44,000 new US cases in the last 48 hrs.  The Sherman Park neighborhood in Milwaukee is a “hotspot “ and the ICU at my hospital is overflowing.

 Unfortunately I’m worried 100,000 deaths may be low.  Some of the models predict 400,000 due to lack of US detection of the disease related to inadequate testing.  To keep perspective, 60,000 American died in the Vietnam War.  The Easter end to social distancing was always a joke and wrong.  The president stating this created confusion. Fortunately the President is finally listening to the scientists and experts.  Ironically it appears it took a friend of his to become critically ill in a coma to see the truth.  The reality is we are all shaped by our experiences.  Stay the f$ck home everybody

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 30, 2020, 10:58:41 PM

Quote from: Bo Ryan's Massage Therapist on March 30, 2020, 09:52:30 PM

If I seem angry, it’s because I am. You’re welcome to come see patients with me that I can’t test and don’t have the PPE to protect myself from once you get back from Arizona ... then tell me how the president is doing.  He is a narcissistic liar

Wishing you the best, and thank you for what you do. One of my friends in NYC was in a similar boat, having to treat patients without PPE, because they had none left. A couple days ago she became ill, fortunately, so far a mild case for her.

Do your best to stay safe, and again, thank you.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 30, 2020, 11:33:21 PM

Quote from: Bo Ryan's Massage Therapist on March 30, 2020, 10:40:09 PM

We went from 15 American cases... this will soon be over, to “this is the next Democratic hoax” to “100,000 American deaths is a strong possibility and would be a success.”  There have been 44,000 new US cases in the last 48 hrs.  The Sherman Park neighborhood in Milwaukee is a “hotspot “ and the ICU at my hospital is overflowing.

 Unfortunately I’m worried 100,000 deaths may be low.  Some of the models predict 400,000 due to lack of US detection of the disease related to inadequate testing.  To keep perspective, 60,000 American died in the Vietnam War.  The Easter end to social distancing was always a joke and wrong.  The president stating this created confusion. Fortunately the President is finally listening to the scientists and experts.  Ironically it appears it took a friend of his to become critically ill in a coma to see the truth.  The reality is we are all shaped by our experiences.  Stay the f$ck home everybody

Stay safe, and thank you for fighting for all of us!

My family and I are doing our small part by staying home, and I hope all non-essential workers are doing the same.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on March 31, 2020, 12:20:20 AM

When you've lost Mike Francesa you have a problem

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Qyf6yxZFsY

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on March 31, 2020, 12:26:10 AM

Quote from: Mutaman on March 31, 2020, 12:20:20 AM

When you've lost Mike Francesa you have a problem

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Qyf6yxZFsY

To be fair, if it’s like his sports takes, he glanced at 2 headlines for 5 seconds and created his bulletproof arrogant opinion without bothering with facts, names, or mitigating factors

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on March 31, 2020, 12:37:09 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on March 31, 2020, 12:26:10 AM

To be fair, if it’s like his sports takes, he glanced at 2 headlines for 5 seconds and created his bulletproof arrogant opinion without bothering with facts, names, or mitigating factors

Or it could be that after hearing ambulances go past his house 24/7 and seeing folks brought out of Elmhurst in body body bags every hour, Mike just decided enough was enough.  Then he gets to see trump bring out some grifter pillow salesman to complain that there's not enough God in the churches. And to top it off , the no nothings love it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 31, 2020, 12:46:33 AM

Quote from: Bo Ryan's Massage Therapist on March 30, 2020, 09:52:30 PM

It’s working for some critically ill patients. For others it is not and they are dying. In dentistry school do they teach you the difference between anecdotal evidence and double blinded studies? If not, stay in your lane. And to respond to your previous response to me... I am a conservative. I voted for this idiot and every other GOP president before him. The difference is I can take off the blinders despite it not fitting my political party.  He has f’ed this up beyond belief.  If I seem angry, it’s because I am. You’re welcome to come see patients with me that I can’t test and don’t have the PPE to protect myself from once you get back from Arizona ... then tell me how the president is doing.  He is a narcissistic liar

But he’s getting great ratings while people die.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 31, 2020, 12:47:51 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 30, 2020, 08:25:26 PM

The dude seriously needs to learn to say "I don't know" or just shut his mouth when he doesn't know something. He starts sentences without knowing where he will end up, and just keeps going.

The biggest brain knows all.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 31, 2020, 12:48:54 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 30, 2020, 09:32:29 PM

btw, chloroquine and hydroxychlorquine with zithromycin(zpack) is working!!

Unfortunately, not really.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 31, 2020, 12:49:56 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 30, 2020, 09:55:45 PM

Sorry to see ya waver...hope ya feel better...have a good night

This ain't sports old man, this is real life.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 31, 2020, 02:39:24 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 30, 2020, 09:32:29 PM

btw, chloroquine and hydroxychlorquine with zithromycin(zpack) is working!!

What are you basing this statement on?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 31, 2020, 05:19:22 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on March 31, 2020, 12:26:10 AM

To be fair, if it’s like his sports takes, he glanced at 2 headlines for 5 seconds and created his bulletproof arrogant opinion without bothering with facts, names, or mitigating factors

Big Mike has been on fire.
He wanted the whole country sheltered at home 2 weeks ago.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 31, 2020, 08:27:24 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 31, 2020, 02:39:24 AM

What are you basing this statement on?

It's been floating around on my "Facebook friends who are Trump fans" feeds all day.

https://techstartups.com/2020/03/28/dr-vladimir-zelenko-now-treated-699-coronavirus-patients-100-success-using-hydroxychloroquine-sulfate-zinc-z-pak-update/?fbclid=IwAR10hCZvXaS8JyTCR3obbSmFGowD19Wo7qKbJl3RlEwWQQze-1qR-P5ZJNU

To be fair, he may be right.  Or he may be full of it because he has provided no patient data to show it. 

But to see this article and claim it works isn't necessarily accurate.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 31, 2020, 08:33:10 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 31, 2020, 02:39:24 AM

What are you basing this statement on?

My guess is that he's basing his definitive "conclusion" ("btw, chloroquine and hydroxychlorquine with zithromycin(zpack) is working!!") on the anecdotal reports referred to below:

 “Anecdotal reports suggest that these drugs may offer some benefit in the treatment of hospitalized COVID-19 patients,” the Department of Health and Human Services said in a statement Sunday. “Clinical trials are needed to provide scientific evidence that these treatments are effective.”

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/theres-scant-evidence-for-chloroquine-so-far-as-a-covid-19-drug-but-theres-already-a-shortage-2020-03-30

It's a shame that someone with his extensive education doesn't seem to know the difference between anecdotal reports and scientific conclusions, and therefore treats the underlined part of DHHS' statement as mere surplusage.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 31, 2020, 08:45:55 AM

Bo's Message Therapist (LOL),

Thank you for all you are doing. We will get through this, thanks to the bravery and heroics of our medical professionals. I wish our country was doing more to support you guys, at the very least getting you the protective gear you need.

Our family is staying home for you guys.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Spaniel with a Short Tail on March 31, 2020, 09:36:03 AM

(https://media.giphy.com/media/GB23P0XQSw5lS/giphy.gif)

(What this thread needs from time to time.)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 31, 2020, 09:41:10 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 31, 2020, 08:33:10 AM

My guess is that he's basing his definitive "conclusion" ("btw, chloroquine and hydroxychlorquine with zithromycin(zpack) is working!!") on the anecdotal reports referred to below:

 “Anecdotal reports suggest that these drugs may offer some benefit in the treatment of hospitalized COVID-19 patients,” the Department of Health and Human Services said in a statement Sunday. “Clinical trials are needed to provide scientific evidence that these treatments are effective.”

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/theres-scant-evidence-for-chloroquine-so-far-as-a-covid-19-drug-but-theres-already-a-shortage-2020-03-30

It's a shame that someone with his extensive education doesn't seem to know the difference between anecdotal reports and scientific conclusions, and therefore treats the underlined part of DHHS' statement as mere surplusage.

It rocket's defense, he has been conned by one of the best con men ever. You see rocket, 4ever and other intelligent Scoopers continually support an immoral, unethical, corrupt, dangerous, incompetent liar, and you wonder ... but then you acknowledge that the current occupant of the White House is a gifted charlatan.

Thankfully, at least they can see Wojo's failings. Because that's what's really important in America right now. That, and the ratings of presidential press briefings.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 31, 2020, 09:43:24 AM

Quote from: MU82 on March 31, 2020, 09:41:10 AM

It rocket's defense, he has been conned by one of the best con men ever. You see rocket, 4ever and other intelligent Scoopers continually support an immoral, unethical, corrupt, dangerous, incompetent liar, and you wonder ... but then you acknowledge that the current occupant of the White House is a gifted charlatan.

Thankfully, at least they can see Wojo's failings. Because that's what's really important in America right now. That, and the ratings of presidential press briefings.

MU82 - I don't understand how this advances our dialog or understanding about COVID-19.  You're not the only one, but why do we need to go here?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 31, 2020, 09:43:52 AM

nm

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Archies Bat on March 31, 2020, 09:59:27 AM

Quote from: MU82 on March 24, 2020, 08:26:38 AM

You're right, and I'm one of the guilty parties. I'll step away. We ain't gonna solve nuttin' here.

Health, happiness and sanity to all.

Bump.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 31, 2020, 10:20:07 AM

Guilty ... again.

And I again will tone it down.

I did step away for a few days last time, but I admit I sometimes can't help myself. I'll try to do better.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 31, 2020, 10:29:55 AM

Quote from: MU82 on March 31, 2020, 10:20:07 AM

Guilty ... again.

And I again will tone it down.

I did step away for a few days last time, but I admit I sometimes can't help myself. I'll try to do better.

82, you're a good dude. And we agree on most things. You contribute a lot to these threads, so I hope you can keep politics out of it so we don't lose you to a ban!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 31, 2020, 10:32:14 AM

Quote from: Coleman on March 31, 2020, 10:29:55 AM

82, you're a good dude. And we agree on most things. You contribute a lot to these threads, so I hope you can keep politics out of it so we don't lose you to a ban!

Thanks Coleman.

I am banning myself for at least 3 days from this thread. Plenty of others have good takes, and I obviously need to focus my energy elsewhere.

Hopefully, when I return, I can be a good boy!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 31, 2020, 10:50:02 AM

i am trying very hard to not getting into political arguments here because 1) they are prohibited and 2) they accomplish nothing and i haven't heard anyone respond back...hey you got an excellent point(s) there and i'm going to vote for...next election

  ok, with that being said-here is pfizer's safety positive data report re: the use of zpack with chloroquine and it's sister drug, hydroxy...

 https://www.clinicaltrialsarena.com/news/pfizer-data-azithromycin-covid-19-trial/

here is a report of a patient who responded better than well and a comment from his doctor
https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/macomb-man-with-covid-19-says-hydroxychloroquine-azithromycin-saved-him

my point, once again is these drugs have been approved for use for other things for years.  we have many drugs in our arsenal that have taken advantage of drugs primary intended consequences.  example-erythromycin has for years been the antibiotic of choice for patients allergic to penicillin.  however, a BIG disadvantage to prescribing it was it's infamy for causing terrible gut reactions ranging from stomach aches to running bowels.  patients HATED to take it because of this.  my lil bro, who has been a pharmacist involved in direct patient care for 27 years at meriter hospital told me that they will sometimes use erythromycin to treat constipation

   a number of drug companies have donated and/or made available, millions of doses of these drugs to hospitals-why?  surely it would be to a little more than anecdotal evidence, but short of "double blind" studies some here seem to demand.  in other words, we need to see that Christ was crucified in order to believe?  does this mean that i am throwing all science and all of my educational foundation out the window as some here also want to accuse me of?  absolutely not.  i believe that sometimes we, as human beings, need to weigh out the risk/reward with a dose of humanity and critical thinking.  unless the cure is worse than the disease, we have to be willing to use everything we have at our disposal until something better arrives. 

   https://www.novartis.com/news/media-releases/novartis-commits-donate-130-million-doses-hydroxychloroquine-support-global-covid-19-pandemic-response

sanofil, pfizer, may be a couple of the others

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 31, 2020, 11:05:42 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 31, 2020, 10:50:02 AM

i am trying very hard to not getting into political arguments here because 1) they are prohibited and 2) they accomplish nothing and i haven't heard anyone respond back...hey you got an excellent point(s) there and i'm going to vote for...next election

  ok, with that being said-here is pfizer's safety positive data report re: the use of zpack with chloroquine and it's sister drug, hydroxy...

 https://www.clinicaltrialsarena.com/news/pfizer-data-azithromycin-covid-19-trial/

here is a report of a patient who responded better than well and a comment from his doctor
https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/macomb-man-with-covid-19-says-hydroxychloroquine-azithromycin-saved-him

my point, once again is these drugs have been approved for use for other things for years.  we have many drugs in our arsenal that have taken advantage of drugs primary intended consequences.  example-erythromycin has for years been the antibiotic of choice for patients allergic to penicillin.  however, a BIG disadvantage to prescribing it was it's infamy for causing terrible gut reactions ranging from stomach aches to running bowels.  patients HATED to take it because of this.  my lil bro, who has been a pharmacist involved in direct patient care for 27 years at meriter hospital told me that they will sometimes use erythromycin to treat constipation

   a number of drug companies have donated and/or made available, millions of doses of these drugs to hospitals-why?  surely it would be to a little more than anecdotal evidence, but short of "double blind" studies some here seem to demand.  in other words, we need to see that Christ was crucified in order to believe?  does this mean that i am throwing all science and all of my educational foundation out the window as some here also want to accuse me of?  absolutely not.  i believe that sometimes we, as human beings, need to weigh out the risk/reward with a dose of humanity and critical thinking.  unless the cure is worse than the disease, we have to be willing to use everything we have at our disposal until something better arrives. 

   https://www.novartis.com/news/media-releases/novartis-commits-donate-130-million-doses-hydroxychloroquine-support-global-covid-19-pandemic-response

sanofil, pfizer, may be a couple of the others

There is a lot of hedging going on in those articles / releases by Novartis and Pfizer.

Versus what you said:  "chloroquine and hydroxychlorquine with zithromycin(zpack) is working!!"

Hey, I hope it does.  But there is a long way to go before declaring victory here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 31, 2020, 12:03:42 PM

https://www.propublica.org/article/taxpayers-paid-millions-to-design-a-low-cost-ventilator-for-a-pandemic-instead-the-company-is-selling-versions-of-it-overseas-

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 31, 2020, 12:05:02 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 31, 2020, 11:05:42 AM

Hey, I hope it does.  But there is a long way to go before declaring victory here.

I think most people are in this boat - I hope it's a magic bullet too!  But It's probably not.

But, since I've got some extra stock from a trip to SE Asia last year - can any medical professional here tell me if Malarone (Atovaquone / Proguanil) + z-pack *could* have similar medical effects?  Of course, I'm not going to be the idiot that self medicates - but if I'm laying on the floor dying and can't breath - I might grab the bottles and down some!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 31, 2020, 12:36:26 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 31, 2020, 11:05:42 AM

There is a lot of hedging going on in those articles / releases by Novartis and Pfizer.

Versus what you said:  "chloroquine and hydroxychlorquine with zithromycin(zpack) is working!!"

Hey, I hope it does.  But there is a long way to go before declaring victory here.

My thoughts exactly. Reason for cautious optimism, but far from conclusive evidence that it’s working...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 31, 2020, 12:36:35 PM

For their daily briefings, the White House is using the Dr. Chris Murray/University of Washington death model.

According to Murray:

It's a death model because in his opinion worst cases would still get timely supplies, equipment etc...so the assumption is that these things won't be an issue. So it is perceived to be easier to track than cases. Problems in those areas would elevate death projections.

As of today he projects over 81,000 deaths in the U.S. .....if and only if:

Everyone stays at home through June 1st, and all states do it.

The model changes input and output daily as applicable.

How different would the models look if better action had taken place the first two months?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 31, 2020, 12:37:11 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 31, 2020, 12:05:02 PM

I think most people are in this boat - I hope it's a magic bullet too!  But It's probably not.

But, since I've got some extra stock from a trip to SE Asia last year - can any medical professional here tell me if Malarone (Atovaquone / Proguanil) + z-pack *could* have similar medical effects?  Of course, I'm not going to be the idiot that self medicates - but if I'm laying on the floor dying and can't breath - I might grab the bottles and down some!

Not an MD, but I do know a bit about pharmaceuticals. Neither of those components in Malarone are chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine, and there is no reason to believe that those medications would have a similar (if it exists) mechanism of action or efficacy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on March 31, 2020, 12:54:27 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 31, 2020, 12:37:11 PM

Not an MD, but I do know a bit about pharmaceuticals.

How much for some Xanax?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 31, 2020, 03:50:30 PM

Trump finally invoked the Defense Production Act this weekend, after many had requested it for weeks and months to help with equipment, supplies, testing etc...

Trump said, “You know, we’re a country not based on nationalizing our business,”...”Call a person over in Venezuela, ask them how did nationalization of their business work out? Not too well.”

But, in reality the current administration has used the Defense Production Act hundreds of thousands of times per year, including 300,000 a year for the Department of Defense.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/31/us/politics/coronavirus-defense-production-act.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 31, 2020, 04:17:12 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 31, 2020, 03:34:22 PM

Lack of testing is still the biggest issue. Incredibly, the Liar-in-Chief said YESTERDAY "I Haven't Heard About Testing in Weeks".

Utterly astounding! Every other person in the entire country knows we are lacking testing. Even the 3 stooges (4never, ziggy and idiot surgeon) whose only purpose is to provide cover, know we don't have proper testing. They will continue to be liars - Ziggy saying anyone could be tested in Pleasant Prairie is one example - but they know the truth. They just aren't willing to admit it.

We can disregard the 18,000 other lies he has told, but that one, single lie should be cause for impeachment. He is letting people die as he desperately tries to glorify himself. Zero responsibility. Always someone else's fault. The man is a monster.

I'm ok with you laying blame, but
1) no need to poke other members while doing so
2) Calls for impeachment look silly now.  Like it or not, he's going to be the one to "get us through" this.  Maybe he'll get impeached again after it's over.  But you can leave that out of your posts.

Thanks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 31, 2020, 04:19:23 PM

Billie Jean King Tennis Center at the U.S. Open will use its 12 practice courts below Arthur Ashe Stadium to build a 350 bed hospital for COVID-19.

Louis Armstrong Stadium next door to Ashe will serve 25,000 food packages a day (6 meals per package).

The Tennis Center is located near Elmurst Hospital in Queens, NY.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on March 31, 2020, 04:29:12 PM

Fog of war.  Reading the last few days it is easy to find a scapegoat to make folks feel better.  Plenty of blame to go around.  From the orange guy's daily rants to endless others.  Mayor of NYC and top city health official tells citizens to go to the theater, favorite restaurant and enjoy themselves.  WHO says the virus isn't airborne viable in late January.  Fla Governor doesn't close beaches.  California stopped funding their pandemic budget several years ago.  Millions of N95 masks allowed to expire in Canada, New York, California and elsewhere.  We can blame later.  Pull it together.


In other news, Ibuprofen now deemed ok when a few weeks ago it wasn't.

https://www.studyfinds.org/study-ibuprofen-among-drugs-found-safe-to-use-in-treatment-of-coronavirus/


Masks now may be required in this country, when a month ago the experts said it would do no good.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/31/fauci-mask-recommendation-coronavirus-157476


They don't know and they will continue to change opinions because this isn't 100% a sure thing.  Stay safe everyone.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 31, 2020, 05:34:37 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on March 31, 2020, 04:29:12 PM

Masks now may be required in this country, when a month ago the experts said it would do no good.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/31/fauci-mask-recommendation-coronavirus-157476

I was just talking about this with my wife. I read somewhere (can't recall where) that a simple cotton mask is about half as effective as a basic surgical mask. Both are much less effective than the N-95 masks that first responders and healthcare workers need, but if a simple cotton mask is used in conjunction with social distancing, it still can make a difference.

There are patterns for homemade masks popping up on the interwebs (like this one: https://www.deaconess.com/How-to-make-a-Face-Mask), so she is gonna make a couple for us. If they aren't too difficult, she may also make some to give to friends, neighbors and such.

Every little bit....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 31, 2020, 05:41:49 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on March 31, 2020, 04:29:12 PM

Masks now may be required recommended in this country, when a month ago the experts said it would do no good.

FTFY.
Also, the issue never was that "They would do no good," but rather there was (and is) a shortage of masks and the experts wanted them on the faces of those who needed them most.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 31, 2020, 05:44:29 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 31, 2020, 05:41:49 PM

FTFY.
Also, the issue never was that "They would do no good," but rather there was (and is) a shortage of masks and the experts wanted them on the faces of those who needed them most.

Actually there was info refuting the mask as an effective preventative.  I think the WHO still takes this position.

Knowing what we know about the asymptomatic though.  I don’t know why we don’t all slap one on as soon as the shortage is done. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 31, 2020, 06:11:03 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 31, 2020, 05:44:29 PM

Actually there was info refuting the mask as an effective preventative.  I think the WHO still takes this position.

Knowing what we know about the asymptomatic though.  I don’t know why we don’t all slap one on as soon as the shortage is done.

Agreed - as soon as the shortage has passed...or right now if we (or someone we know) can make one at home.

At the very least, they would very likely make us less likely to spread the virus if we have it. At best, they might also prevent us from getting sick. Seems like there's no reason not to wear one, as long as you can get it without keeping it away from those who really need them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on March 31, 2020, 06:11:48 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 31, 2020, 05:44:29 PM

Actually there was info refuting the mask as an effective preventative.  I think the WHO still takes this position.

Knowing what we know about the asymptomatic though.  I don’t know why we don’t all slap one on as soon as the shortage is done.

Here's what WHO said Monday:

"There is no specific evidence to suggest that the wearing of masks by the mass population has any potential benefit. In fact, there's some evidence to suggest the opposite in the misuse of wearing a mask properly or fitting it properly," Dr. Mike Ryan, executive director of the WHO health emergencies program, said at a media briefing in Geneva, Switzerland, on Monday.
"There also is the issue that we have a massive global shortage," Ryan said about masks and other medical supplies. "Right now the people most at risk from this virus are frontline health workers who are exposed to the virus every second of every day. The thought of them not having masks is horrific."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 31, 2020, 06:17:22 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 31, 2020, 06:11:48 PM

Here's what WHO said Monday:

"There is no specific evidence to suggest that the wearing of masks by the mass population has any potential benefit. In fact, there's some evidence to suggest the opposite in the misuse of wearing a mask properly or fitting it properly," Dr. Mike Ryan, executive director of the WHO health emergencies program, said at a media briefing in Geneva, Switzerland, on Monday.
"There also is the issue that we have a massive global shortage," Ryan said about masks and other medical supplies. "Right now the people most at risk from this virus are frontline health workers who are exposed to the virus every second of every day. The thought of them not having masks is horrific."

I have read in several places the biggest thing is not being familier with the mask will cause us to touch our face more.  so along the same lines as above

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 31, 2020, 06:26:31 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on March 31, 2020, 06:17:22 PM

I have read in several places the biggest thing is not being familier with the mask will cause us to touch our face more.  so along the same lines as above

Seems dismissive right?  Did they control their face touching research contemplating behavior in a worldwide pandemic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on March 31, 2020, 06:42:40 PM

i agree people touch there face regardless so the extra protection cannot hurt.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 31, 2020, 08:17:21 PM

https://twitter.com/ASlavitt/status/1244818145275260929?s=19

Excellent thread on current data, what is going on in the White house and future expectations

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on March 31, 2020, 11:46:31 PM

How do you not let the virus spark up again? That's the question for the future. The answer is to kill the virus e.g. realize a vaccine. If that could truly be more than a year away, we're doomed.

If we're simply delaying the virus hitting people and just trying to flatten the curve, then the fact that NYC is at one point on this journey and others are different is very important.

How can we imagine big public events, sporting events and such to resume in the next year+ with the amount of travel going on?

Maybe the reality is that most people have to get the virus, fight through and we hope they win. It's just a healthcare capacity issue. Some get it early, we stall (like in MN's case)... see what happens... and go from there.

That may mean 'normal' is many, many months off. Social distancing 4 life

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on March 31, 2020, 11:58:08 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on March 31, 2020, 11:46:31 PM

How do you not let the virus spark up again? That's the question for the future. The answer is to kill the virus e.g. realize a vaccine. If that could truly be more than a year away, we're doomed.

If we're simply delaying the virus hitting people and just trying to flatten the curve, then the fact that NYC is at one point on this journey and others are different is very important.

How can we imagine big public events, sporting events and such to resume in the next year+ with the amount of travel going on?

Maybe the reality is that most people have to get the virus, fight through and we hope they win. It's just a healthcare capacity issue. Some get it early, we stall (like in MN's case)... see what happens... and go from there.

That may mean 'normal' is many, many months off. Social distancing 4 life

I think this is all correct. And the capacity issue is greater than the ability to care for COVID patients - it impacts others receiving vital care who might otherwise be turned away or become COVID patients themselves.

Hard to believe that any sporting events resume with that in mind. I understand organizations stretching this out as long as possible, but I just don't see how it happens. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 01, 2020, 12:11:19 AM

Quote from: Jay Bee on March 31, 2020, 11:46:31 PM

How do you not let the virus spark up again? That's the question for the future. The answer is to kill the virus e.g. realize a vaccine. If that could truly be more than a year away, we're doomed.

If we're simply delaying the virus hitting people and just trying to flatten the curve, then the fact that NYC is at one point on this journey and others are different is very important.

How can we imagine big public events, sporting events and such to resume in the next year+ with the amount of travel going on?

Maybe the reality is that most people have to get the virus, fight through and we hope they win. It's just a healthcare capacity issue. Some get it early, we stall (like in MN's case)... see what happens... and go from there.

That may mean 'normal' is many, many months off. Social distancing 4 life

My pet peeve.

It is "physical" distancing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 01, 2020, 12:19:16 AM

Quote from: Jockey on April 01, 2020, 12:11:19 AM

My pet peeve.

It is "physical" distancing.

Great input. If we're near each other there will be no physical distancing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 01, 2020, 05:45:19 AM

Quote from: Jay Bee on March 31, 2020, 11:46:31 PM

How do you not let the virus spark up again? That's the question for the future. The answer is to kill the virus e.g. realize a vaccine. If that could truly be more than a year away, we're doomed.

If we're simply delaying the virus hitting people and just trying to flatten the curve, then the fact that NYC is at one point on this journey and others are different is very important.

How can we imagine big public events, sporting events and such to resume in the next year+ with the amount of travel going on?

Maybe the reality is that most people have to get the virus, fight through and we hope they win. It's just a healthcare capacity issue. Some get it early, we stall (like in MN's case)... see what happens... and go from there.

That may mean 'normal' is many, many months off. Social distancing 4 life

China still hasn’t restarted sports despite efforts to do so and recently closed their movie theaters for a second time.  That should tell us something. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 01, 2020, 07:09:11 AM

Quote from: GB Warrior on March 31, 2020, 11:58:08 PM

I think this is all correct. And the capacity issue is greater than the ability to care for COVID patients - it impacts others receiving vital care who might otherwise be turned away or become COVID patients themselves.

Hard to believe that any sporting events resume with that in mind. I understand organizations stretching this out as long as possible, but I just don't see how it happens.

Play without fans present

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 01, 2020, 07:15:50 AM

Quote from: Jay Bee on March 31, 2020, 11:46:31 PM

Social distancing 4 life

An introverts dream

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on April 01, 2020, 07:24:10 AM

Quote from: Jay Bee on March 31, 2020, 11:46:31 PM

How do you not let the virus spark up again? That's the question for the future. The answer is to kill the virus e.g. realize a vaccine. If that could truly be more than a year away, we're doomed.

If we're simply delaying the virus hitting people and just trying to flatten the curve, then the fact that NYC is at one point on this journey and others are different is very important.

How can we imagine big public events, sporting events and such to resume in the next year+ with the amount of travel going on?

Maybe the reality is that most people have to get the virus, fight through and we hope they win. It's just a healthcare capacity issue. Some get it early, we stall (like in MN's case)... see what happens... and go from there.

That may mean 'normal' is many, many months off. Social distancing 4 life

It takes about 18 months to develop and implement a vaccine. Super fast tracked is still likely 2021.

You may want to adjust your schedule accordingly when it comes to big public events and sports.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 01, 2020, 08:03:49 AM

A larger hope is that we have so many carriers who show no symptoms, or mild symptoms, that herd immunity becomes a thing earlier than we think.

But yeah I am having a tough time understanding how we are going to have sporting events with live audiences in a couple of months. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on April 01, 2020, 08:09:14 AM

Obviously I'm no epidemiologist, but I'm thinking absolute best case is Nov/Dec in terms of sports going ahead with fans.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 01, 2020, 08:17:13 AM

Quote from: MUfan12 on April 01, 2020, 08:09:14 AM

Obviously I'm no epidemiologist, but I'm thinking absolute best case is Nov/Dec in terms of sports going ahead with fans.

Last night on NBC a DR talked about a 2nd wave coming in the fall when schools are back in session.  The idea is by then they understand how to care for people who are sick and the 2nd wave is not nearly as taxing as the first.

The real question is how many of those that are in ICU/hospitals are older or have prior conditions?  Does the next year mean they are told to stay home and the rest who can for the most part fight off this virus without major problems go about our business.
That means a lot of missed time with loved ones but we cant all live in a bubble for over a year.
I know we have cases of healthy 30 year olds going to ICU but how rare are those?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 01, 2020, 08:17:34 AM

A good friend of mine has a past life as a public health professional.  She thinks we will gradually see bans lifted starting in May (restaurants open, smaller events allowed) running through to September when large crowds will be allowed.

Her theory is that we have way more assymptomatic and mildly symptomatic carriers than we are measuring, meaning we will gain a degree of herd immunity over the summer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 01, 2020, 08:40:12 AM

Quote from: Jay Bee on March 31, 2020, 11:46:31 PM

That may mean 'normal' is many, many months off.

Yep. Maybe people will figure out ways to get a few of the currently closed businesses back open here and there, but any large-scale reopening of shuttered businesses, or any events with big crowds, are still months away.

As far as sports, I'm betting the NBA is done for the year, and MLB might go without any season at all. They may even need to delay (gasp!) the NFL.

IMHO, the best way to get out of this economically might be a government-run "New Deal" type of program. Find the people who have had the illness (either through positive test and then recovery, or by presence of antibodies after an asymptomatic infection), and then put any who are unemployed to work rebuilding our roads and bridges, maybe building solar and wind facilities, etc. Obviously that would take larger scale testing and then training for new jobs, but that way, we fix infrastructure issues we have been facing for years, get people back to work, and hopefully rebuild the economy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 01, 2020, 08:43:33 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 01, 2020, 08:40:12 AM

Yep. Maybe people will figure out ways to get a few of the currently closed businesses back open here and there, but any large-scale reopening of shuttered businesses, or any events with big crowds, are still months away.

As far as sports, I'm betting the NBA is done for the year, and MLB might go without any season at all. They may even need to delay (gasp!) the NFL.

IMHO, the best way to get out of this economically might be a government-run "New Deal" type of program. Find the people who have had the illness (either through positive test and then recovery, or by presence of antibodies after an asymptomatic infection), and then put any who are unemployed to work rebuilding our roads and bridges, maybe building solar and wind facilities, etc. Obviously that would take larger scale testing and then training for new jobs, but that way, we fix infrastructure issues we have been facing for years, get people back to work, and hopefully rebuild the economy.

IMO, society as a whole will make the calculation that more deaths are worth the trade offs for additional freedoms long before then.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 01, 2020, 08:49:55 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 01, 2020, 08:43:33 AM

IMO, society as a whole will make the calculation that more deaths are worth the trade offs for additional freedoms long before then.

I suppose anything is possible. But by then, many (most?) of us might have friends or family members who have been killed by the virus. If it hits home like that, it might make the "let's get back to business now" crowd take pause.

Either way, we are in for a long and bumpy ride.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on April 01, 2020, 08:59:11 AM

Quote from: Jay Bee on March 31, 2020, 11:46:31 PM

How do you not let the virus spark up again? That's the question for the future. The answer is to kill the virus e.g. realize a vaccine. If that could truly be more than a year away, we're doomed.

If we're simply delaying the virus hitting people and just trying to flatten the curve, then the fact that NYC is at one point on this journey and others are different is very important.

How can we imagine big public events, sporting events and such to resume in the next year+ with the amount of travel going on?

Maybe the reality is that most people have to get the virus, fight through and we hope they win. It's just a healthcare capacity issue. Some get it early, we stall (like in MN's case)... see what happens... and go from there.

That may mean 'normal' is many, many months off. Social distancing 4 life

Widespread, point of care testing is a huge part of it. Once we are past the worst of the curve, and we can test anyone on demand, we may start to slowly resume some normal activities.

If we can test people and get results within 15 minutes, certain businesses may be able to reopen. Schools might be able to reopen, if we can test all the kids before they enter.

I agree with you though, some things, like sports with stadiums full of thousands of people, will not be possible until there is a vaccine (or herd immunity). We might be able to resume with empty stadiums though, if we can test all the athletes before competition begins.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on April 01, 2020, 09:00:54 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 01, 2020, 08:17:34 AM

A good friend of mine has a past life as a public health professional.  She thinks we will gradually see bans lifted starting in May (restaurants open, smaller events allowed) running through to September when large crowds will be allowed.

Her theory is that we have way more assymptomatic and mildly symptomatic carriers than we are measuring, meaning we will gain a degree of herd immunity over the summer.

Results out of Iceland, which is doing massive randomize testing, suggest 50% of infected are asymptomatic.

I think we might get herd immunity before a vaccine is available, like by fall.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on April 01, 2020, 09:01:54 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 01, 2020, 08:40:12 AM

IMHO, the best way to get out of this economically might be a government-run "New Deal" type of program. Find the people who have had the illness (either through positive test and then recovery, or by presence of antibodies after an asymptomatic infection), and then put any who are unemployed to work rebuilding our roads and bridges, maybe building solar and wind facilities, etc. Obviously that would take larger scale testing and then training for new jobs, but that way, we fix infrastructure issues we have been facing for years, get people back to work, and hopefully rebuild the economy.

Trump was talking about the next round of stimulus being infrastructure focused. I think you're on the money .

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on April 01, 2020, 09:02:38 AM

would we be testing for if they HAVE it as in the viral particles or if they HAD it, as in the antibodies formed against it? or both?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on April 01, 2020, 09:08:23 AM

Quote from: Jay Bee on March 31, 2020, 11:46:31 PM

Maybe the reality is that most people have to get the virus, fight through and we hope they win. It's just a healthcare capacity issue. Some get it early, we stall (like in MN's case)... see what happens... and go from there.

This is it for me too, JB. I think this is going to be a balance between a rapid healthcare evolution and how long we as a society can and are willing to buy time and pay for that.  I'd love to hear from healthcare experts - both providers and administration/business folks - because I'm neither, but it seems like the current messaging around "the more we practice distancing, the sooner this will be over" isn't doing anyone any favors because it isn't true.  It will save people's lives, and that should be the PR focus.  But the only thing that will end distancing is a combination of healthcare capacity that reduces preventable covid deaths while not sacrificing capacity for non-covid care and immunity through some comibination of a vaccine, antibody tests, and people having survived the illness.*

The * for me, is that when all this started, I thought there was a lot of talk about how coronaviruses are like the cold, and that reinfection is possible and immunity can last only weeks or months, depending on the exact virus. I've done some honest to god searching for more info on that and haven't come up with anything.  If that's true, I guess the hope is that a vaccine might not prevent cases but would make them less severe? Idk maybe we're just screwed then.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 01, 2020, 09:12:07 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on March 31, 2020, 05:41:49 PM

FTFY.
Also, the issue never was that "They would do no good," but rather there was (and is) a shortage of masks and the experts wanted them on the faces of those who needed them most.

Disagree.  Last month articles said they were ineffective.  CDC said of little use.  NY Times opinion piece on motives from a few days ago. Another Tmes article today on what was said then and what is said now.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/opinion/coronavirus-face-masks.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 01, 2020, 09:18:02 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 01, 2020, 09:02:38 AM

would we be testing for if they HAVE it as in the viral particles or if they HAD it, as in the antibodies formed against it? or both?

Both. Current testing is for the active virus, but Mayo Clinic and the U of MN are working on a test for antibodies. I'm fairly certain other institutions are working on such tests as well.

https://www.startribune.com/u-mayo-ready-covid-19-antibody-tests-in-minnesota/569233992/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 01, 2020, 09:20:43 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 01, 2020, 09:12:07 AM

Disagree.  Last month articles said they were ineffective.  CDC said of little use.  NY Times opinion piece on motives from a few days ago. Another Tmes article today on what was said then and what is said now.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/opinion/coronavirus-face-masks.html

The CDC always know their "advisement" on it being of little use or counterproductive was false. Some heads of hospitals were told exactly this when they asked about the guidance.

At least internally, the CDC was always admitting that this "advisement" was to try and make sure those on the front-lines had PPE. I believe I posted this exact truth over a month ago when the initial "advisement" came out.

So, bottom line, the CDC lies, to make sure that the nurses and doctor's weren't dying due to a lack of PPE. They still were having to work without PPE in some cases.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Silent Verbal on April 01, 2020, 09:21:11 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 01, 2020, 08:17:34 AM

A good friend of mine has a past life as a public health professional.  She thinks we will gradually see bans lifted starting in May (restaurants open, smaller events allowed) running through to September when large crowds will be allowed.

Her theory is that we have way more assymptomatic and mildly symptomatic carriers than we are measuring, meaning we will gain a degree of herd immunity over the summer.

This seems pretty reasonable.  I think that by May, most restaurants/bars, large retail stores, movie theaters, theme parks, etc will begin experimenting with “limited capacity” for customers where people can attend while still respecting social distancing protocols.  As summer wears on and more people realize that it’s okay to start going out again, those restrictions will gradually be relaxed.

By June 1, I’d expect most things besides massive gatherings like sporting events and concerts to be up and running again in some form.  I don’t know if society will be able to put up with the current restrictions for much longer than that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 01, 2020, 09:25:47 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 30, 2020, 09:57:56 PM

The United States and South Korea had their first cases on the same day. The U.S. has had 3,138 deaths since, including 593 in the past 24 hours. South Korea has had 158.

US population much larger (7 times larger)
US territory immensely larger (99 times larger). Easier to control citizens and police compliance
Koreans have used masks for years and dealt with viral outbreaks more than US has in 100 years


The US has many flaws in this process with testing, but we would certainly be doing better than we have with a smaller footprint and population.  Those are advantages South Korea has that we do not.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 01, 2020, 09:27:09 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 01, 2020, 09:12:07 AM

Disagree.  Last month articles said they were ineffective.  CDC said of little use.  NY Times opinion piece on motives from a few days ago. Another Tmes article today on what was said then and what is said now.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/opinion/coronavirus-face-masks.html

Regardless, the balance now seems to say that there would likely be some benefit from everyone wearing a mask. Greater benefit overall if you're an asymptomatic carrier, but still some benefit if you don't have the virus and are trying to prevent it.

IMHO, anyone who happens to have a mask should wear it. It you don't, but you have the ability to make one, do it and wear it. Just don't go out and buy a N-95 or surgical mask that should be in the heads of healthcare professionals or first responders.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 01, 2020, 09:31:56 AM

Quote from: forgetful on April 01, 2020, 09:20:43 AM

The CDC always know their "advisement" on it being of little use or counterproductive was false. Some heads of hospitals were told exactly this when they asked about the guidance.

At least internally, the CDC was always admitting that this "advisement" was to try and make sure those on the front-lines had PPE. I believe I posted this exact truth over a month ago when the initial "advisement" came out.

So, bottom line, the CDC lies, to make sure that the nurses and doctor's weren't dying due to a lack of PPE. They still were having to work without PPE in some cases.

That may be the intent and agree with the motive.  However it also did not stop countless articles and television coverage telling people they were ineffective when they could have helped.  This is another example of where the blame game can go on endlessly and leaders have to pick outcomes that not everyone will be comfortable with.

The one that bothers me the most are the tens of millions of N95 masks that were left in warehouses that expired.  California had 20 million under state control.  The Federal gov’t millions in their warehouses.  Canada over 50 million. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 01, 2020, 09:36:20 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 01, 2020, 09:31:56 AM

That may be the intent and agree with the motive.  However it also did not stop countless articles and television coverage telling people they were ineffective when they could have helped.  This is another example of where the blame game can go on endlessly and leaders have to pick outcomes that not everyone will be comfortable with.

So you want to blame the media for reporting on what the CDC actually advised?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 01, 2020, 09:37:06 AM

We can’t even figure out if wearing a mask is good, bad or awful.

We b screwed

#LastDays

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 01, 2020, 09:38:03 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 01, 2020, 09:31:56 AM

That may be the intent and agree with the motive.  However it also did not stop countless articles and television coverage telling people they were ineffective when they could have helped.  This is another example of where the blame game can go on endlessly and leaders have to pick outcomes that not everyone will be comfortable with.

The one that bothers me the most are the tens of millions of N95 masks that were left in warehouses that expired.  California had 20 million under state control.  The Federal gov’t millions in their warehouses.  Canada over 50 million. 

You worry way too much about the "blame game" versus making legitimate criticisms of how leaders have managed this. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 01, 2020, 09:43:11 AM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 01, 2020, 09:37:06 AM

We can’t even figure out if wearing a mask is good, bad or awful.

We b screwed

#LastDays

Good.

Be safe, JayBee

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 01, 2020, 10:01:10 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 01, 2020, 09:38:03 AM

You worry way too much about the "blame game" versus making legitimate criticisms of how leaders have managed this.

What he is most interested in these days is creating an, "Everyone makes mistakes" narrative.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 01, 2020, 10:11:13 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 01, 2020, 10:01:10 AM

What he is most interested in these days is creating an, "Everyone makes mistakes" narrative.

This ... and creating some sort of false equivalency, so that the POTUS ignoring months of warnings and spreading falsehoods about the virus in public is just another of many whoopsies.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on April 01, 2020, 10:39:23 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 01, 2020, 09:25:47 AM

US population much larger (7 times larger)
US territory immensely larger (99 times larger). Easier to control citizens and police compliance
Koreans have used masks for years and dealt with viral outbreaks more than US has in 100 years


The US has many flaws in this process with testing, but we would certainly be doing better than we have with a smaller footprint and population.  Those are advantages South Korea has that we do not.

The U.S. would be doing better if the response was signficantly better. There was U.S. Intel on this in January.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on April 01, 2020, 11:10:19 AM

Not a surprise...Wimbledon Tennis 2020 canceled today and rescheduled for 2021. (It runs late June through mid July)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 01, 2020, 11:14:37 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on April 01, 2020, 10:11:13 AM

This ... and creating some sort of false equivalency, so that the POTUS ignoring months of warnings and spreading falsehoods about the virus in public is just another of many whoopsies.

Someone else always used to make similar arguments and say things like "I can find 500 economists that say the opposite of your 500 economists...."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 01, 2020, 11:28:47 AM

Needs bigger sample sizes, and there are reasons to still be skeptical, but this is the first report with controls suggesting a mild benefit of hydroxychloroquine.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/health/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-malaria.html?fbclid=IwAR1cUTmSA-Lt87S9lPoiD9-uRlu7gJlE69ReTEzaH0HCy-yKkqiFrQmVgCk

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 01, 2020, 11:54:07 AM

Quote from: Coleman on April 01, 2020, 09:00:54 AM

Results out of Iceland, which is doing massive randomize testing, suggest 50% of infected are asymptomatic.

I think we might get herd immunity before a vaccine is available, like by fall.

Why are we assuming there will even be herd immunity?  Is there herd immunity for the cold or flu?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on April 01, 2020, 12:01:52 PM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/03/30/coronavirus-drugs-hydroxychloroquin-chloroquine/

This is a good, detailed article regarding Chloroquine and Colchicine.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on April 01, 2020, 12:03:17 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 01, 2020, 11:54:07 AM

Why are we assuming there will even be herd immunity?  Is there herd immunity for the cold or flu?

Because most indications thus far show immunity after infection.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 01, 2020, 12:10:55 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 01, 2020, 11:54:07 AM

Why are we assuming there will even be herd immunity?  Is there herd immunity for the cold or flu?

To the flu, yes.
A vaccine is basically a shortcut to herd immunity. It provides the immunity without the getting sick part. But if you do get sick with it once, you're probably not going to get it again or become a carrier for it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on April 01, 2020, 12:35:28 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on April 01, 2020, 12:10:55 PM

To the flu, yes.
A vaccine is basically a shortcut to herd immunity. It provides the immunity without the getting sick part. But if you do get sick with it once, you're probably not going to get it again or become a carrier for it.

Also, there are many different versions of cold and flu viruses, and you have to develop immunity to each one.  That is why babies are always getting colds; they start out not having immunity to any of them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 01, 2020, 12:51:17 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on April 01, 2020, 12:10:55 PM

To the flu, yes.
A vaccine is basically a shortcut to herd immunity. It provides the immunity without the getting sick part. But if you do get sick with it once, you're probably not going to get it again or become a carrier for it.

In theory, you are correct. But the flu vaccine has an effectiveness rate of generally around 50% and upwards of a half a million people die from it every year. The necessary level for herd immunity for measles or mumps to prevent an wide outbreak is in the 90% range.  It would take a long time to get to that level with COVID.

We still don't know if COVID will mutate like the flu virus.If it doesn't, that bodes well for the future. If it does, a vaccine is vital.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 01, 2020, 01:08:02 PM

https://awfulannouncing.com/espn/adam-schefter-rips-nfl-proceeding-business-as-usual-ignoring-carnage-in-streets.html

Adam Schefter ripping the NFL for refusing to change the draft.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 01, 2020, 01:11:34 PM

To mask or not to mask

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/04/coronavirus-pandemic-airborne-go-outside-masks/609235/

Today in the Atlantic goes through what WHO and CDC were saying not to do, the pivot and whether any of it makes sense.  Different experts say different things.

This goes back to the politics of this.  Leaders receive input from all kinds of experts, and they don't all agree.  Leaders make decisions based on that input in real-time.  WHO and CDC have made some bad (in retrospect) calls in this.  Our leaders rely on those opinions and make decisions accordingly.  Some decisions are poorly made even without that input as exemplified for all to see, but it doesn't help when leading health authorities are making erroneous statements or confusing recommendations.

Stay safe everyone

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 01, 2020, 01:15:49 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 01, 2020, 01:11:34 PM

To mask or not to mask

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/04/coronavirus-pandemic-airborne-go-outside-masks/609235/

Today in the Atlantic goes through what WHO and CDC were saying not to do, the pivot and whether any of it makes sense.  Different experts say different things.

This goes back to the politics of this.  Leaders receive input from all kinds of experts, and they don't all agree.  Leaders make decisions based on that input in real-time.  WHO and CDC have made some bad (in retrospect) calls in this.  Our leaders rely on those opinions and make decisions accordingly.  Some decisions are poorly made even without that input as exemplified for all to see, but it doesn't help when leading health authorities are making erroneous statements or confusing recommendations.

Stay safe everyone

Just stop your bullsh*t Cheeks.

Yes, medical protection advice can change as circumstances change.  However completely ignoring the obvious signs that it was coming here in the first place doesn't really fall into that category.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 01, 2020, 01:18:15 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 01, 2020, 09:36:20 AM

So you want to blame the media for reporting on what the CDC actually advised?

I prefer WHO and CDC become more crisp with their declarations and pronouncements.  They are in a tough position because of the fluid nature of this.  To claim masks were ineffective from the start defied logic for most of us, but that message was pushed anyway.  Whether it was to stave off a run on the product or because they truly didn't think it would work is up to you to decide.

Not blaming the media for reporting, but would have liked them to be a bit more thorough.  Most ran with the story the masks wouldn't work.  A few didn't.  The media provides a tremendous service for democracy and the well being of the citizenry.  They can also be a problem when they play gotcha blame games.  I see both going on at the moment and it is unfortunate.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 01, 2020, 01:20:58 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 01, 2020, 09:38:03 AM

You worry way too much about the "blame game" versus making legitimate criticisms of how leaders have managed this.

There is always time for blame later.  WWII we screwed up endlessly in the first few years. If it was reported that way we would have lost the war. 

These are unique times and leaders are going to make mistakes.  Whether that is DeBlasio, Trump, Jerry Brown, DeSantis, the head of WHO, CDC, or some bureaucrat that lets 20M masks to expire.  What is the point?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 01, 2020, 01:24:33 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 01, 2020, 01:20:58 PM

There is always time for blame later.  WWII we screwed up endlessly in the first few years. If it was reported that way we would have lost the war. 

These are unique times and leaders are going to make mistakes.  Whether that is DeBlasio, Trump, Jerry Brown, DeSantis, the head of WHO, CDC, or some bureaucrat that lets 20M masks to expire.  What is the point?

Yeah what's the point of holding leaders accountable in real time. Let them keep screwing up constantly!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 01, 2020, 01:56:50 PM

Well, it's official :)
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-01/china-concealed-extent-of-virus-outbreak-u-s-intelligence-says

But I laugh at these statements:

Quote

“The claim that the United States has more coronavirus deaths than China is false,” Senator Ben Sasse, a Nebraska Republican, said in a statement after Bloomberg News published its report.

This is the wrong focus.  Nobody should care who has more cases, just find the best solution going forward.

Quote

“I would urge every nation: Do your best to collect the data. Do your best to share that information,” [Michael Pompeo] said. “We’re doing that.”

Sure...we've done our best to collect data.  cough.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 01, 2020, 02:00:38 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 01, 2020, 01:56:50 PM

Well, it's official :)
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-01/china-concealed-extent-of-virus-outbreak-u-s-intelligence-says

But I laugh at these statements:
This is the wrong focus.  Nobody should care who has more cases, just find the best solution going forward.

Sure...we've done our best to collect data.  cough.

You are dead on Rocky -- at this point China is irrelevant because we now have a problem.  I was looking at worldometers since I was a bit shocked by the numbers being thrown out by the admin...But...if you look at deaths per 1M population, Italy/Spain are at the level that would be equivalent of 2M here.  Why there are people still not focused on improving our situation as best as possible at this point, I dont know.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 01, 2020, 02:01:54 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 01, 2020, 02:00:38 PM

You are dead on Rocky -- at this point China is irrelevant because we now have a problem.  I was looking at worldometers since I was a bit shocked by the numbers being thrown out by the admin...But...if you look at deaths per 1M population, Italy/Spain are at the level that would be equivalent of 2M here.  Why there are people still not focused on improving our situation as best as possible at this point, I dont know.

Because blaming others and gaslighting along the way is easier.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 01, 2020, 02:12:47 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 01, 2020, 02:01:54 PM

Because blaming others and gaslighting along the way is easier.

There must be some recurring theme on Faux News because I keep hearing adherents repeating statements that "when this is all past, China has to pay for all this because they're responsible for it." 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 01, 2020, 02:18:55 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 01, 2020, 02:12:47 PM

There must be some recurring theme on Faux News because I keep hearing adherents repeating statements that "when this is all past, China has to pay for all this because they're responsible for it."

We have a better chance of Mexico paying for that wall.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 01, 2020, 02:25:17 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 01, 2020, 02:12:47 PM

There must be some recurring theme on Faux News because I keep hearing adherents repeating statements that "when this is all past, China has to pay for all this because they're responsible for it."

At this point I would just take some medical PPE from China.  I would pay for it!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 01, 2020, 02:47:22 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 01, 2020, 01:08:02 PM

https://awfulannouncing.com/espn/adam-schefter-rips-nfl-proceeding-business-as-usual-ignoring-carnage-in-streets.html

Adam Schefter ripping the NFL for refusing to change the draft.

Schefter is being silly and overwrought here, and likely a shill for the team front office people who feed him many of his scoops. I mean, "carnage in the streets"?
The vast majority of the business world is finding ways to carry on operations while adhering to social distancing guidelines. There's no reason the NFL cannot do the same with the draft. In fact, given the league's vast resources, it ought to be easier for them than most. It's not ideal, and it upsets the "way we've always done it" mentality that pervades NFL front offices, but it's far from impossible, and not at all somehow offensive in light of everything else happening out there.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 01, 2020, 02:51:56 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 01, 2020, 02:25:17 PM

At this point I would just take some medical PPE from China.  I would pay for it!

Supposedly getting some from Russia.  Not sure Russia should be sharing what they have with us... didn't work out so well for us when we sent ours to China.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 01, 2020, 03:02:21 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 01, 2020, 02:12:47 PM

There must be some recurring theme on Faux News because I keep hearing adherents repeating statements that "when this is all past, China has to pay for all this because they're responsible for it."

I hear that one a lot on social media.

I also hear from the same people that, they are pretty sure they had COVID back in October.

They don't seem to understand those two things are incompatible. If this was circulating widely in the US in October, then it didn't come from China...and we do know this started in China.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 01, 2020, 03:13:38 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 01, 2020, 03:02:21 PM

I hear that one a lot on social media.

I also hear from the same people that, they are pretty sure they had COVID back in October.

They don't seem to understand those two things are incompatible. If this was circulating widely in the US in October, then it didn't come from China...and we do know this started in China.

Knowledge isn’t their strong suit? Go figure.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on April 01, 2020, 03:21:28 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 01, 2020, 03:13:38 PM

Knowledge isn’t their strong suit? Go figure.

Come on man, you're better than this.  Not every other comment has to be an arrogant partisan pissing contest, regardless of the side you're on.

In other news, looking forward to hearing the praise for DeSantis for FINALLY doing what he should have done a month ago  ::)  My GF's mom lives in the central part of Florida.  She informed her about the new rule and she was puzzled cause "doesn't seem like anybody else is changing anything".  Which is exasperating.  Especially since her mom's BF would clearly be in the intersection of multiple vulnerable populations.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 01, 2020, 03:27:09 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on April 01, 2020, 03:21:28 PM

Come on man, you're better than this.  Not every other comment has to be an arrogant partisan pissing contest, regardless of the side you're on.

In other news, looking forward to hearing the praise for DeSantis for FINALLY doing what he should have done a month ago  ::)  My GF's mom lives in the central part of Florida.  She informed her about the new rule and she was puzzled cause "doesn't seem like anybody else is changing anything".  Which is exasperating.  Especially since her mom's BF would clearly be in the intersection of multiple vulnerable populations.

DeSantis won't be getting praise because he carelessly has let people become infected and die. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 01, 2020, 04:18:30 PM

Medical staffing company cut salary, benefits for medical staffs fighting coronavirus:

https://thehill.com/homenews/news/490552-medical-staffing-company-cut-salary-benefits-for-medical-staffs-fighting



A major medical staffing company that employs emergency room doctors and nurses is cutting salaries and benefits for employees who are treating coronavirus patients, according to an investigation by ProPublica.

Though hospitals remain full, both staffing and insurance companies have lost money during the pandemic because most elective procedures have been postponed to make room for coronavirus patients.

That has cut into the profits for hospitals and insurance companies.

These companies received benefits in the $2 trillion stimulus bill passed last week, including deferring payroll taxes, suspending reimbursement cuts and receiving advance Medicare payments.

The memo added that they will be reducing hours for clinicians, cutting pay for administrative employees by 20 percent and suspending 401(k) matches, bonuses and paid time off. Some employees were told that they were going to be switched from full-time to part-time status.


yah capitalism!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 01, 2020, 04:23:09 PM

Georgia’s governor issued a stay at home order. Said that “new” evidence suggesting that asymptotic people could spread the disease was a “game changer.”  🙄🙄🙄

Oh and it is only for two weeks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 01, 2020, 04:29:10 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 01, 2020, 04:23:09 PM

Said that “new” evidence suggesting that asymptotic people could spread the disease was a “game changer.”  🙄🙄🙄

If there is anything to be mad at China about it is this + not allowing the CDC to observe in China like they requested initially.  Based on the NY Times article interview with the Canadian WHO leader, the asymptomatic angle was completely swept under the rug.  In reality this seems to be a major factor in spread.  Now South Korea, Singapore and HK seemed to either figure this out or take a path to test and not trust to figure this dynamic out.  If this was definitively ID'd much earlier my guess is the CDC would have taken a different course early. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 01, 2020, 04:33:17 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 01, 2020, 04:23:09 PM

Georgia’s governor issued a stay at home order. Said that “new” evidence suggesting that asymptotic people could spread the disease was a “game changer.”  🙄🙄🙄

Oh and it is only for two weeks.

Probably too busy watching Faux News to know what's happening in the real world.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 01, 2020, 04:39:26 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 01, 2020, 04:29:10 PM

If there is anything to be mad at China about it is this + not allowing the CDC to observe in China like they requested initially.  Based on the NY Times article interview with the Canadian WHO leader, the asymptomatic angle was completely swept under the rug.  In reality this seems to be a major factor in spread.  Now South Korea, Singapore and HK seemed to either figure this out or take a path to test and not trust to figure this dynamic out.  If this was definitively ID'd much earlier my guess is the CDC would have taken a different course early.

So basically, we trusted China more than we trusted South Korea or Singapore. That alone is a pretty serious indictment of the administration.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 01, 2020, 04:46:09 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 01, 2020, 04:39:26 PM

So basically, we trusted China more than we trusted South Korea or Singapore. That alone is a pretty serious indictment of the administration.

I guess it could also be less apparent there since everyone slaps a mask on. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 01, 2020, 04:57:20 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on April 01, 2020, 03:21:28 PM

Come on man, you're better than this.  Not every other comment has to be an arrogant partisan pissing contest, regardless of the side you're on.

You give me way too much credit. It's just simple sarcasm.

For weeks, Fox downplayed the threat of the coronavirus, characterizing it as a conspiracy by media and Dems to undermine President Trump.

Hannity and  In­graham accused the news media of whipping up “mass hysteria” and being “panic pushers.” Fox Business host Trish Regan called the alleged media-Democratic alliance “yet another attempt to impeach the president.”

Trump held a news conference on  March 13 declaring a national emergency. Until then, Trump’s allies on Fox News took the same stance as the president himself  — that this coronavirus that had sickened and killed thousands of people in China was no worse a threat than the seasonal flu.

Hannity downplayed cororavirus deaths by saying: “Twenty-six people were shot in Chicago alone over the weekend. I doubt you heard about it. You notice there’s no widespread hysteria about violence in Chicago. And this has gone on for years and years. By the way, Democratic-run cities, we see a lot of that.”

Ingraham called Democrats the “pandemic party” and displayed photos of Pelosi and Schumer alongside images of coronavirus molecules. “How sick that these people seem almost happiest when Americans are hurting,” she said. She later said, "The facts are actually pretty reassuring, but you’d never know it watching all this stuff.”

Tucker Carlson is the only one who took it somewhat seriously even as he blamed the “corrupt” media.

On March 7, Jeanine Pirro said, “All the talk about coronavirus being so much more deadly [than the flu] doesn’t reflect reality.”

Nunes appeared on Fox to say “stop panicking” and to “just go out.”



So, that is where the sarcasm comes from. Their viewers cannot be knowledgeable when they are lied to on a daily basis.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 01, 2020, 05:19:47 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 01, 2020, 04:57:20 PM

You give me way too much credit. It's just simple sarcasm.

For weeks, Fox downplayed the threat of the coronavirus, characterizing it as a conspiracy by media and Dems to undermine President Trump.

Hannity and  In­graham accused the news media of whipping up “mass hysteria” and being “panic pushers.” Fox Business host Trish Regan called the alleged media-Democratic alliance “yet another attempt to impeach the president.”

Trump held a news conference on  March 13 declaring a national emergency. Until then, Trump’s allies on Fox News took the same stance as the president himself  — that this coronavirus that had sickened and killed thousands of people in China was no worse a threat than the seasonal flu.

Hannity downplayed cororavirus deaths by saying: “Twenty-six people were shot in Chicago alone over the weekend. I doubt you heard about it. You notice there’s no widespread hysteria about violence in Chicago. And this has gone on for years and years. By the way, Democratic-run cities, we see a lot of that.”

Ingraham called Democrats the “pandemic party” and displayed photos of Pelosi and Schumer alongside images of coronavirus molecules. “How sick that these people seem almost happiest when Americans are hurting,” she said. She later said, "The facts are actually pretty reassuring, but you’d never know it watching all this stuff.”

Tucker Carlson is the only one who took it somewhat seriously even as he blamed the “corrupt” media.

On March 7, Jeanine Pirro said, “All the talk about coronavirus being so much more deadly [than the flu] doesn’t reflect reality.”

Nunes appeared on Fox to say “stop panicking” and to “just go out.”



So, that is where the sarcasm comes from. Their viewers cannot be knowledgeable when they are lied to on a daily basis.

Yes. We get it. Now please stop.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 01, 2020, 06:09:22 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 01, 2020, 01:56:50 PM

Well, it's official :)
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-01/china-concealed-extent-of-virus-outbreak-u-s-intelligence-says

But I laugh at these statements:
This is the wrong focus.  Nobody should care who has more cases, just find the best solution going forward.

Sure...we've done our best to collect data.  cough.

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/027/475/Screen_Shot_2018-10-25_at_11.02.15_AM.jpg)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 01, 2020, 06:59:29 PM

The ventilator maintenance contract situation isn’t a good look.

 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/us/politics/coronavirus-ventilators.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/us/politics/coronavirus-ventilators.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lighthouse 84 on April 01, 2020, 07:19:39 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 01, 2020, 04:57:20 PM

Nunes appeared on Fox to say “stop panicking” and to “just go out.”

Not on Fox News, but just like Pelosi and DiBlasio did....

Yeah we get it. Stop the politics.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 01, 2020, 08:44:58 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on April 01, 2020, 03:21:28 PM

In other news, looking forward to hearing the praise for DeSantis for FINALLY doing what he should have done a month ago  ::)  My GF's mom lives in the central part of Florida.  She informed her about the new rule and she was puzzled cause "doesn't seem like anybody else is changing anything".  Which is exasperating.  Especially since her mom's BF would clearly be in the intersection of multiple vulnerable populations.

"Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis said religious services conducted in churches, synagogues and houses of worship are “essential business” and therefore exempt from this stay-at-home executive order announced this afternoon."

So I'm going to go with "Never" in terms of him earning praise.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 01, 2020, 09:20:56 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 01, 2020, 08:44:58 PM

"Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis said religious services conducted in churches, synagogues and houses of worship are “essential business” and therefore exempt from this stay-at-home executive order announced this afternoon.”

Wow. Just wow.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 01, 2020, 09:26:28 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 01, 2020, 08:44:58 PM

"Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis said religious services conducted in churches, synagogues and houses of worship are “essential business” and therefore exempt from this stay-at-home executive order announced this afternoon."

So I'm going to go with "Never" in terms of him earning praise.

Will they start paying taxes like essential businesses?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Johnny B on April 01, 2020, 09:31:07 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 01, 2020, 09:20:56 PM

Wow. Just wow.

Magic sheild from covid in church

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on April 01, 2020, 09:32:41 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on April 01, 2020, 09:26:28 PM

Will they start paying taxes like essential businesses?

I don’t think that’s how an essential business is determined.  There are a lot of people who believe their religion is essential however. God bless em

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on April 01, 2020, 09:36:47 PM

btw, anyone coming around to hydroxychloroquine yet? 

Seems doc are taking it prophylactically

Ok, anecdotal story my nephew just got back from Africa. He’s been there before, but one of the things they do to prepare their bodies for the different environment is take the anti malarial drug, hydroxychloroquine.  He’s been back about a week and no Signs nor symptoms of that thing that’s going around here

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 01, 2020, 09:42:45 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 01, 2020, 09:32:41 PM

I don’t think that’s how an essential business is determined.  There are a lot of people who believe their religion is essential however. God bless em

They need to stay home.  Period.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on April 01, 2020, 09:44:21 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 01, 2020, 09:32:41 PM

I don’t think that’s how an essential business is determined.  There are a lot of people who believe their religion is essential however. God bless em

can't they watch it on tv like all of the other reality shows

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 01, 2020, 09:49:39 PM

Quote from: Mane'shouse 84 on April 01, 2020, 07:19:39 PM

Not on Fox News, but just like Pelosi and DiBlasio did....

Yeah we get it. Stop the politics.

Exactly. Only one politician has been right on this from day one that I know of - Sen Tom Cotton. Everybody else who opined early (that I’ve seen quoted) from both parties didn’t get it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on April 01, 2020, 09:53:50 PM

About that supply of government stockpiled ventilators...Where are they? Why do some not work? They let the.contract expire last year.

https://twitter.com/AdamSerwer/status/1245520727887024129?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on April 01, 2020, 10:00:05 PM

https://www.foxnews.com/media/dr-marc-siegel-encouraging-developments-coronavirus-fight

"Back in January, Netflix, ironically, released a documentary called 'Pandemic.'" Siegel explained. "And one of the scientists they featured, an immunologist bioengineer from San Francisco, Jacob Glanville, has now gone on since that film to be working on ... several antibodies that he took from another coronavirus, SARS, from 2003.

"And he's re-engineered these antibodies so that they literally attack... the virus by blocking its entry into the cell," Siegel went on. "He's got it to the point now where he's handing it over to Army research. The Army research laboratories are going to test it and see how effective it is. And from there, [they'll] go on to human trials."


Siegel described Glanville's would-be treatment as "very, very interesting," noting that "it has been used in the past, using targeted antibodies to go after a virus. It may not be a cure, but it can certainly decrease symptoms."

The second development involves using tobacco plants to develop antibodies.

"Tobacco is actually a plant that we use to grow vaccines, to grow the proteins that we then use to challenge your immune system to create an antibody," Siegel told Carlson. "A tobacco plant is now being injected with a protein from this coronavirus to see if they can develop a vaccine.

"So not only are they making tobacco that puts our lungs at risk for this virus, but they're also working on a vaccine against the virus," the doctor added.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 01, 2020, 10:03:25 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 01, 2020, 09:49:39 PM

Exactly. Only one politician has been right on this from day one that I know of - Sen Tom Cotton. Everybody else who opined early (that I’ve seen quoted) from both parties didn’t get it.

The same Tom Cotton who's suggested COVID-19 was created in a secret Chinese lab?
I guess we'll see.

You're right that Cotton was one of the first to see it coming. But his spreading of fringe theories about its origins doesn't seem helpful.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 01, 2020, 10:21:22 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on April 01, 2020, 10:03:25 PM

The same Tom Cotton who's suggested COVID-19 was created in a secret Chinese lab?
I guess we'll see.

You're right that Cotton was one of the first to see it coming. But his spreading of fringe theories about its origins doesn't seem helpful.

Unaware of any fringe/conspiracy theories he has espoused. I’m certainly not a fan of that sort of thing. But when Trump was holding rallies and the Dems were only interested in impeachment he was a lonely and accurate voice about the seriousness of the virus.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on April 01, 2020, 10:47:50 PM

Florida...took almost 8,000 cases for the Governor to act. (need that Spring Break money)

There have been 4 dead bodies floating around for weeks on a cruise ship.

https://amp.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article241681661.html?__twitter_impression=true

And DeSantis says he'll only take the Floridians off of the ship (there are 300 Americans, 400 Candadians.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/florida-gov-ron-desantis-says-hell-only-let-floridians-off-coronavirus-infected-cruise-ship

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 01, 2020, 11:12:50 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on April 01, 2020, 10:47:50 PM

Florida...took almost 8,000 cases for the Governor to act. (need that Spring Break money)

No offense shoot - but everything you've posted tonight has already been here.  Catch up here first, then let us know if you've got anything new.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 01, 2020, 11:17:35 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 01, 2020, 10:21:22 PM

Unaware of any fringe/conspiracy theories he has espoused. I’m certainly not a fan of that sort of thing. But when Trump was holding rallies and the Dems were only interested in impeachment he was a lonely and accurate voice about the seriousness of the virus.

He may have been right about the threat...but he has been pushing this:

https://www.mediamatters.org/coronavirus-covid-19/fox-news-anchor-maria-bartiromo-and-sen-tom-cotton-keep-pushing-coronavirus

The Lancet - one of the most respected medical journals in the world (and which published the study he uses as the basis for his theory) - has stated that there is no substance to his claims.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 01, 2020, 11:24:59 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 01, 2020, 09:36:47 PM

btw, anyone coming around to hydroxychloroquine yet? 

Seems doc are taking it prophylactically

Ok, anecdotal story my nephew just got back from Africa. He’s been there before, but one of the things they do to prepare their bodies for the different environment is take the anti malarial drug, hydroxychloroquine.  He’s been back about a week and no Signs nor symptoms of that thing that’s going around here

They are? Source?

Because the regulatory agencies have sent out communications specifically to those with prescriptive authority that this should NOT be done.

And your anecdotal story? Um.. isn't it possible he just hasn't been infected? Also, taking the drug has nothing to do with a "different environment" and everything to do with avoiding malaria.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on April 01, 2020, 11:27:45 PM

Walked down to where the USNS Comfort is docked at Pier 91. They have semi-opaque green fencing all along 12th Ave, which makes sense. In my walk, I saw multiple groups of people trying to talk, move the fencing aside to take pictures, chat closely with strangers in the vicinity. It was such “siggghhhh” moment seeing it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 01, 2020, 11:36:14 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 01, 2020, 09:49:39 PM

Exactly. Only one politician has been right on this from day one that I know of - Sen Tom Cotton. Everybody else who opined early (that I’ve seen quoted) from both parties didn’t get it.

Senator Warren was the first to come up with a comprehensive plan for this, way back in January.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on April 02, 2020, 01:06:24 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 01, 2020, 11:24:59 PM

They are? Source?

Because the regulatory agencies have sent out communications specifically to those with prescriptive authority that this should NOT be done.

And your anecdotal story? Um.. isn't it possible he just hasn't been infected? Also, taking the drug has nothing to do with a "different environment" and everything to do with avoiding malaria.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/03/20/hospitals-doctors-are-wiping-out-supplies-an-unproven-coronavirus-treatment/

Near the end of the article, it claims doctors and dentists are prescribing it for themselves.   I could see MD’s Rx’ing it for themselves but unless ya know the pharmacist pretty well, they will flag this one as outside your lane

But gee, I’m curious as to why these people with, probably a pretty good understanding of how things work, would be taking this “anecdotal” medication.  and it seems to be hard to find now?  But that’s just me being reckless err something.  Wouldn’t want to find something that seems to be doing something weird with this pesky virus.

btw, yes, very possible my nephew was not exposed to said virus but what the heck.  Ya gotta ask yourself, do ya feel lucky? Punk? 🤫

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 02, 2020, 01:16:27 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 02, 2020, 01:06:24 AM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/03/20/hospitals-doctors-are-wiping-out-supplies-an-unproven-coronavirus-treatment/

Near the end of the article, it claims doctors and dentists are prescribing it for themselves.   I could see MD’s Rx’ing it for themselves but unless ya know the pharmacist pretty well, they will flag this one as outside your lane

But gee, I’m curious as to why these people with, probably a pretty good understanding of how things work, would be taking this “anecdotal” medication.  and it seems to be hard to find now?  But that’s just me being reckless err something.  Wouldn’t want to find something that seems to be doing something weird with this pesky virus.

btw, yes, very possible my nephew was not exposed to said virus but what the heck.  Ya gotta ask yourself, do ya feel lucky? Punk? 🤫

I love that you choose an article that has a headline that states there are patient needs that are going unfulfilled because irresponsible providers are writing scripts for themselves and friends.

Go ahead and pat yourself on the back for something that's putting patients at risk

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 02, 2020, 02:30:23 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 01, 2020, 10:21:22 PM

Unaware of any fringe/conspiracy theories he has espoused. I’m certainly not a fan of that sort of thing. But when Trump was holding rallies and the Dems were only interested in impeachment he was a lonely and accurate voice about the seriousness of the virus.

Among politicians you mean.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on April 02, 2020, 03:13:21 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 02, 2020, 01:16:27 AM

I love that you choose an article that has a headline that states there are patient needs that are going unfulfilled because irresponsible providers are writing scripts for themselves and friends.

Go ahead and pat yourself on the back for something that's putting patients at risk

Not patting anything here jesus

Patients at risk?  Now that is juicy.  Which part is more risky?  The dying part? What are the risks of hydroxychloroquine?  What are the risks of zithromycin?  Every time a patient takes any drug for whatever reason there are some risks, regardless of the research. Hell, the last half of all commercials are needed for the disclaimers...not limited to but including potential death diarrhea, loss of hearing, decreased sex drive, tinnitus, watery eyes, leaky penis, leaky brains, stomach aches, headaches,  increased blood pressure, decreased blood pressure, postural hypotension, arthritis hang nail, sinus discharge, anal discharge,

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 02, 2020, 06:06:53 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 01, 2020, 11:17:35 PM

He may have been right about the threat...but he has been pushing this:

https://www.mediamatters.org/coronavirus-covid-19/fox-news-anchor-maria-bartiromo-and-sen-tom-cotton-keep-pushing-coronavirus

The Lancet - one of the most respected medical journals in the world (and which published the study he uses as the basis for his theory) - has stated that there is no substance to his claims.

You rail against fox, but then post an article from media matters?  C'mon now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 02, 2020, 07:19:26 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 01, 2020, 09:32:41 PM

I don’t think that’s how an essential business is determined.  There are a lot of people who believe their religion is essential however. God bless em

Then they should read up on how a funeral in Albany, Gerogia created a hotspot there.

It is reckless and irresponsible for pastor's to be holding Church services at this time.  God understands. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 02, 2020, 07:28:52 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on April 01, 2020, 09:26:28 PM

Will they start paying taxes like essential businesses?

One can dream

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 02, 2020, 07:35:55 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on April 02, 2020, 06:06:53 AM

You rail against fox, but then post an article from media matters?  C'mon now.

You could find the same in any number of publications, including USA Today and The Hill. They all simply report on an interview Cotton gave in which he peddled a conspiracy theory that COVID-19 was engineered in a Chinese lab.

Good for Cotton for ringing the alarm early on this.
Bad for Corton for spreading a debunked fringe theory.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 02, 2020, 07:36:02 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on April 01, 2020, 09:26:28 PM

Will they start paying taxes like essential businesses?

Plenty of not-for-profits are considered essential businesses. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 02, 2020, 07:38:34 AM

Because the world makes no sense, Dr. Fauci now needs full-time security after receiving death threats.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/01/politics/anthony-fauci-security-detail/index.html?utm_content=2020-04-02T06%3A41%3A04&utm_source=twCNN&utm_medium=social&utm_term=link

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 02, 2020, 08:27:38 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on April 02, 2020, 06:06:53 AM

You rail against fox, but then post an article from media matters?  C'mon now.

The same story is up all over the place. I only linked that one because it was for first one that popped up in a google search. Did I mention the the same story is all over the place? ICYMI - here are a few, including the statement in The Lancet that is signed by 26 public health experts:

https://www.businessinsider.com/tom-cotton-coronavirus-come-from-chinese-super-laboratory-2020-2

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/03/17/covid-19-coronavirus-did-not-come-from-a-lab-study-shows-natural-origins/#59ae9bd53728

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/03/21/fact-check-did-coronavirus-originate-chinese-laboratory/2881150001/

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200317175442.htm

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30418-9/fulltext

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on April 02, 2020, 08:30:16 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 01, 2020, 11:12:50 PM

No offense shoot - but everything you've posted tonight has already been here.  Catch up here first, then let us know if you've got anything new.

Huh?

I posted that Wimbledon was canceled. Please provide link where it was already posted.

I posted an article about how the government let the ventilator contract expire. Link?

In the post you reference above, the post was about two new articles I have not seen posted regarding the cruise ship and that only Floridians are being let off. Can you post the links where they were already posted?

(i also posted about Stan's new staff in the Stan thread I started, but you may have missed it since most of the thread is filled with posts not about Stan)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 02, 2020, 08:38:55 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 01, 2020, 10:21:22 PM

Unaware of any fringe/conspiracy theories he has espoused. I’m certainly not a fan of that sort of thing. But when Trump was holding rallies and the Dems were only interested in impeachment he was a lonely and accurate voice about the seriousness of the virus.

Lenny,
This is actually incorrect.  It's behind a paywall in today's Washington Post so I can't link, but here's the article title.
Dana Milbank at The Washington Post writes—Republicans were warned. Yet they persisted in defending Trump

Snippet from the article:
In the middle of the impeachment trial, on Jan. 26, Schumer demanded that the administration declare a public health emergency so that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention could access more funds. “Should the outbreak get worse, they’re going to need immediate access to critical federal funds that at present they can’t access,” Schumer said. “We aren’t here to propel panic or stoke fear, but to rather keep a good proactive effort by the CDC from going on [un]interrupted.”

Certainly, the virus got less media attention because of impeachment. And few in either party anticipated the scale of the outbreak here. But Senate Democrats point to 32 other warnings, requests and statements they made seeking action against the virus — all while the Senate impeachment trial was underway. It begins with Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) on Jan. 17 releasing a letter to Azar about steps “should this outbreak escalate,” and includes several requests to increase preparedness and to reinstate the National Security Council directorate for pandemics that Trump had dissolved.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 02, 2020, 09:06:12 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 01, 2020, 09:49:39 PM

Exactly. Only one politician has been right on this from day one that I know of - Sen Tom Cotton. Everybody else who opined early (that I’ve seen quoted) from both parties didn’t get it.

This  article supports your claim.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/03/the-senator-who-saw-the-coronavirus-coming/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 02, 2020, 09:07:47 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 02, 2020, 02:30:23 AM

Among politicians you mean.

Yes

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 02, 2020, 09:13:05 AM

Italy’s death toll from virus far higher than reported

https://www.wsj.com/articles/italys-coronavirus-death-toll-is-far-higher-than-reported-11585767179


This is why the comparisons against other countries is meaningless.  The numbers are not comparable or standardized.  Used purely as a political hammer in my opinion.  I’m not sure why the them of greatest country on earth keeps coming up either.  All countries have flaws, and the US is no different.  How do we move forward as a nation to tackle this, preserve our civil liberties in the process (do we care?) and come out the other side?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 02, 2020, 09:21:23 AM

"Sleepy Joe" warned about COVID-19 back in January.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/01/27/coronavirus-donald-trump-made-us-less-prepared-joe-biden-column/4581710002/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 02, 2020, 09:22:03 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 02, 2020, 09:13:05 AM

Italy’s death toll from virus far higher than reported

https://www.wsj.com/articles/italys-coronavirus-death-toll-is-far-higher-than-reported-11585767179


This is why the comparisons against other countries is meaningless.  The numbers are not comparable or standardized.  Used purely as a political hammer in my opinion.  I’m not sure why the them of greatest country on earth keeps coming up either.  All countries have flaws, and the US is no different.  How do we move forward as a nation to tackle this, preserve our civil liberties in the process (do we care?) and come out the other side?

Just as an aside, this is happening here already even though we are just getting into health crisis mode in areas of the US.  As an example CT had a 'true-up' a couple days ago on deaths that subsequently were deemed as part of COVID.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 02, 2020, 09:23:20 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 02, 2020, 09:06:12 AM

This  article supports your claim.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/03/the-senator-who-saw-the-coronavirus-coming/

Actually, it claims to, but in fact the date provides a nice roadmap to show that Cotton wasn't the first.

The article cites a January 22 letter as the start of his raising the alarm. But below is a link to a copy of a letter that Diane Feinstein sent to Alex Azar a week earlier - on January 15 - referring to the coronavirus outbreak, and asking Azar what HHS is doing to prepare us for this "new threat to global health.":

https://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ID=B5213A09-21BD-4848-A6AF-185B958AF06D

Facts are difficult and persistent things....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 02, 2020, 09:52:59 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 02, 2020, 09:07:47 AM

Yes

I guess you mean other than all the ones quoted in the various links posted here?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on April 02, 2020, 11:04:30 AM

Ballgame for Covid-19





George Stanley

@geostanley
 · 36m
BREAKING: Researchers in Pittsburgh have developed a potential coronavirus vaccine: 'We'd like to get this into patients as soon as possible' https://jsonline.com/story/news/2020/04/02/researchers-pittsburgh-have-developed-potential-coronavirus-vaccine/5107907002/… via @journalsentinel

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 02, 2020, 11:05:26 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 02, 2020, 03:13:21 AM

Not patting anything here jesus

Patients at risk?  Now that is juicy.  Which part is more risky?  The dying part? What are the risks of hydroxychloroquine?  What are the risks of zithromycin?  Every time a patient takes any drug for whatever reason there are some risks, regardless of the research. Hell, the last half of all commercials are needed for the disclaimers...not limited to but including potential death diarrhea, loss of hearing, decreased sex drive, tinnitus, watery eyes, leaky penis, leaky brains, stomach aches, headaches,  increased blood pressure, decreased blood pressure, postural hypotension, arthritis hang nail, sinus discharge, anal discharge,

You're way off.

I'm saying patients who need these medications for their intended use, not for covid. Those patients can't get these important drugs because some irresponsible folks are wrongly prescribing for themselves.

You have a weird fetish for this medication/proposed treatment. You have posted about it a ton. Why?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 02, 2020, 11:08:22 AM

When I think back on where this all went so wrong, I find three big problems.

1. Massive failures on rolling out testing. That led to major issues in number 2.

2. Not isolating all travelers from China, and testing them rigorously, and tracing and quarantining contacts. Again here, we couldn't, because we didn't have testing.

3. And this is where it snowballed. Europe was obviously a big problem, and with all the travelers from affected regions on planes, air travel was a major problem. We were way way late on shutting down travel, we still haven't shut it down really. That spread this around the entire nation and exploded initial cases.

On 3, my University shut down travel very early. We also got all students and employees out of Europe in the first week of February. That should have been nationwide.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 02, 2020, 11:09:53 AM

Quote from: muguru on April 02, 2020, 11:04:30 AM

Ballgame for Covid-19

George Stanley

@geostanley
 · 36m
BREAKING: Researchers in Pittsburgh have developed a potential coronavirus vaccine: 'We'd like to get this into patients as soon as possible' https://jsonline.com/story/news/2020/04/02/researchers-pittsburgh-have-developed-potential-coronavirus-vaccine/5107907002/… via @journalsentinel

There are already multiple vaccines being tested in patients. None of these are changing the 12-18 month timeline for a vaccine to be ready for widespread use.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Johnny B on April 02, 2020, 11:15:42 AM

Quote from: muguru on April 02, 2020, 11:04:30 AM

Ballgame for Covid-19





George Stanley

@geostanley
 · 36m
BREAKING: Researchers in Pittsburgh have developed a potential coronavirus vaccine: 'We'd like to get this into patients as soon as possible' https://jsonline.com/story/news/2020/04/02/researchers-pittsburgh-have-developed-potential-coronavirus-vaccine/5107907002/… via @journalsentinel

U say ballgame like this thing is about to be done. Takes a year for FDA approval i mean come on.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on April 02, 2020, 11:20:23 AM

Quote from: Johnny B on April 02, 2020, 11:15:42 AM

U say ballgame like this thing is about to be done. Takes a year for FDA approval i mean come on.

That can be accelerated.....I mean if the trials are working, why wait?? This is vital.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on April 02, 2020, 11:21:24 AM

There's already like 40 vaccines for COVID-19.

Johnson & Johnson has developed three on their own.

I don't think we will see one in mass production until early 2021.

It is good news. They will start getting into the hands of doctors for some clinical trials very soon, which will save lives. But we won't put a full stop to the virus until they are available to everyone.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 02, 2020, 11:21:31 AM

 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/opinion/coronavirus-viral-dose.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&fbclid=IwAR033m8NqjdALNmGRnObhLEIiuTBw7BQJd04aMYJs3Ty3aTxgfqBqA0n9Ps (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/opinion/coronavirus-viral-dose.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&fbclid=IwAR033m8NqjdALNmGRnObhLEIiuTBw7BQJd04aMYJs3Ty3aTxgfqBqA0n9Ps)

I thought this was a good piece — particularly as we slowly return to normal. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 02, 2020, 11:23:19 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 02, 2020, 09:13:05 AM

Italy’s death toll from virus far higher than reported

https://www.wsj.com/articles/italys-coronavirus-death-toll-is-far-higher-than-reported-11585767179


This is why the comparisons against other countries is meaningless.  The numbers are not comparable or standardized.  Used purely as a political hammer in my opinion.  I’m not sure why the them of greatest country on earth keeps coming up either.  All countries have flaws, and the US is no different.  How do we move forward as a nation to tackle this, preserve our civil liberties in the process (do we care?) and come out the other side?

We are also way way under on reporting cases and deaths. We have had terrible testing capacities.

So all nations are in a similar boat in terms of under-reporting. The bottom line, since the beginning the mortality rates from cases has been high 3-5%, it was experts down playing these numbers to 1%. The Ro from China, were higher or equal to what we are currently observing.

All the information needed to merit significant concern, and to drive a global call to action, as well as methods to limit the spread and impact, were known by mid-late January. The nations being impacted very negatively right now, including us, were because we didn't take those number seriously. The actual number of cases and deaths don't matter in models, the mortality rate and Ro, do.

The current agenda of making it seem like the reason we were behind is some nations manipulating numbers, is purely political cover, the models of this from the China data, if anything, predicted a higher impact than what we are currently seeing.

It's also not helpful, the mess we are in now, is our own creation. We failed to take this seriously, failed in initial testing, and failed in our initial response. Blaming others, for political purposes, takes energy away from what needs to be done to fix the problem.

We just need to own our errors, and move on.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 02, 2020, 11:25:10 AM

Quote from: muguru on April 02, 2020, 11:20:23 AM

That can be accelerated.....I mean if the trials are working, why wait?? This is vital.

It will take 8-12 months to even know if the trials are working at all. That is the minimum, and may be a little on the fast end.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on April 02, 2020, 11:28:57 AM

Trials will be accelerated. I don't think it will take 18 months to get a vaccine to mass production.

But I still think we are looking at early 2021, best case scenario.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 02, 2020, 12:27:52 PM

Quote from: muguru on April 02, 2020, 11:20:23 AM

That can be accelerated.....I mean if the trials are working, why wait?? This is vital.

They have to be proven to work and they have to be safe.  There will never be a vaccine developed in under 12 months.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 02, 2020, 12:52:48 PM

Quote from: muguru on April 02, 2020, 11:20:23 AM

That can be accelerated.....I mean if the trials are working, why wait?? This is vital.

Here is a good article that answers your question:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/03/19/opinion/why-will-coronavirus-vaccine-take-so-long/

This is the process for any drug - even those for people who already have various illnesses. But vaccines are not for people who are already sick. They are for healthy people, so it is especially critical that they go through the necessary steps to make sure we won't make even more people sick with a poorly tested "cure."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on April 02, 2020, 01:16:10 PM

Quote from: muguru on April 02, 2020, 11:20:23 AM

That can be accelerated.....I mean if the trials are working, why wait?? This is vital.

As others have mentioned, there are dozens of companies and Medical Centers that are developing vaccines and treatments. There are vaccine and treatment evaluation units affiliated with the National Institute of Health. There are 9 VTEU's (Vaccine and Treatment Evaluation Units) in the country.

Baylor College of Medicine in Houston, Texas; Cincinnati Children’s Hospital Medical Center in Cincinnati, Ohio; Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia; Kaiser Permanente Washington Health Research Institute in Seattle, Saint Louis University, Washington; University of Maryland School of Medicine in Baltimore, Maryland; University of Rochester in Rochester, New York; University of Washington in Seattle, Washington; and Vanderbilt University Medical Center in Nashville, Tennessee.

They are developing both vaccines and treatments for COVID-19. This article from a couple of days ago helps explain why it takes time even in the best cases.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-31/coronavirus-vaccine-is-coming-in-a-year-to-18-months-show-me

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 02, 2020, 01:46:39 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 02, 2020, 12:52:48 PM

This is the process for any drug - even those for people who already have various illnesses. But vaccines are not for people who are already sick. They are for healthy people, so it is especially critical that they go through the necessary steps to make sure we won't make even more people sick with a poorly tested "cure."

Oh come on, Gooooo, what could possibly go wrong with putting an unproven vaccine into billions of people??  You're just one of those soft kids guru talks about, aren't you?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 02, 2020, 01:53:22 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 02, 2020, 01:46:39 PM

Oh come on, Gooooo, what could possibly go wrong with putting an unproven vaccine into billions of people??  You're just one of those soft kids guru talks about, aren't you?

Why stop at one vaccine? There are 100's in development. Just inject everyone with all of them. At least 1 has to work right?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 02, 2020, 02:19:45 PM

Quote from: muguru on April 02, 2020, 11:20:23 AM

That can be accelerated.....I mean if the trials are working, why wait?? This is vital.

You really don’t know anything about this.

Look at attempts at an HIV vaccine. Things that work in the lab have not worked in real life trials. In one trial, people injected with the trial vaccine caught HIV more often than those who received a placebo.

This takes time because you don’t want a vaccine that does does more damage than it does help people.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on April 02, 2020, 02:31:02 PM

Quote from: muguru on April 02, 2020, 11:20:23 AM

That can be accelerated.....I mean if the trials are working, why wait?? This is vital.

(https://img.cinemablend.com/filter:scale/quill/f/3/2/b/9/2/f32b92d6191197dd6e84adf64910ee11ef56a95c.jpg?mw=600)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on April 02, 2020, 02:34:48 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 02, 2020, 11:05:26 AM

You're way off.

I'm saying patients who need these medications for their intended use, not for covid. Those patients can't get these important drugs because some irresponsible folks are wrongly prescribing for themselves.

You have a weird fetish for this medication/proposed treatment. You have posted about it a ton. Why?

“Weird fetish” is an interesting and loaded way to put it

I have no financial investment in any of the drug companies that make it.  It just makes a lot of sense to me. It is a drug(s) that have a long ha of safety. It has shown a high rate of efficacy where used, anecdotally of course  and now you are seeing more and more acceptance of its use.  Even the Michigan gov. Who hates trump and initially banned anyone within her state from using it, has now dropped that ban and trying to grab it with both hands. 

I am following the use of this drug use on covid19 because I want a ray of hope, a light at the end of the tunnel for this country.  We all know the development of a vaccine will happen, but we all also know that could be years down the road. We need something to grab onto here. Is this the magic bullet?  Not yet, but I think it’s upside is looking pretty good

I’m just rooting for the good guys, that’s all. I would think there are a few more like minded people here

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on April 02, 2020, 02:38:24 PM

Quote from: muguru on April 02, 2020, 11:04:30 AM

Ballgame for Covid-19

How can you be so optimistic about this and so pessimistic about Marquette basketball?  That is some real extreme right there.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 02, 2020, 03:11:17 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 02, 2020, 02:34:48 PM

Even the Michigan gov. Who hates trump and initially banned anyone within her state from using it, has now dropped that ban and trying to grab it with both hands. 

Talk about an exaggeration.  Even according to Fox news...
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/michigan-reverses-course-on-trump-touted-coronavirus-drugs

- Michigan gov banned it for off-label use - saving their stock for intended treatments
- Then the FDA declared it OK to use off-label without a clinical trial, and opened up their stock,

Quote

The FDA’s emergency use authorization allows hydroxychloroquine sulfate and chloroquine phosphate products donated to the national stockpile “to be distributed and prescribed by doctors to hospitalized teen and adult patients with COVID-19, as appropriate, when a clinical trial is not available or feasible.”

- So Michigan said fine, give us some, we'll try it for covid

Not as "reverse course" as you present it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on April 02, 2020, 03:43:55 PM

Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp did not know that asymptomatic people could spread COVID-19. He just found this out Tuesday, and insisted that it was news to everyone and not just him. Spoiler alert the CDC is based in Georgia. It is 6.5 miles from the Kemp's home.

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1245709571869507586?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on April 02, 2020, 03:55:28 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on April 02, 2020, 03:43:55 PM

Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp did not know that asymptomatic people could spread COVID-19. He just found this out Tuesday, and insisted that it was news to everyone and not just him. Spoiler alert the CDC is based in Georgia. It is 6.5 miles from the Kemp's home.

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1245709571869507586?s=19

Well...you know what else is based in Atlanta?  CNN.  Another 3 letter acronym starting with C.  The purveyor of fake news.  Sensible to disregard the CDC as well as an extra precaution against it all.  Plenty of likely collusion one could reckon. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 02, 2020, 03:56:58 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on April 02, 2020, 03:43:55 PM

Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp did not know that asymptomatic people could spread COVID-19. He just found this out Tuesday, and insisted that it was news to everyone and not just him. Spoiler alert the CDC is based in Georgia. It is 6.5 miles from the Kemp's home.

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1245709571869507586?s=19

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=60331.msg1228762#msg1228762

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 02, 2020, 03:59:11 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 01, 2020, 08:44:58 PM

"Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis said religious services conducted in churches, synagogues and houses of worship are “essential business” and therefore exempt from this stay-at-home executive order announced this afternoon."

So I'm going to go with "Never" in terms of him earning praise.

And it looks like I am going to have to go even longer before I heap DeSantis with due praise.

https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/2020/04/02/ron-desantis-quietly-signed-second-executive-order-targeting-local-coronavirus-restrictions/

"The second order requires that new state guidelines taking effect Friday morning “shall supersede any conflicting official action or order issued by local officials in response to COVID-19.” In other words, local governments cannot place any limitations that would be more strict than the statewide guidelines."

"Locally, it means Hillsborough County cannot mandate churches close their doors, a rule that drew national attention and the ire of the local Republican Party after Tampa megachurch The River of Tampa Bay held two Sunday services, leading to the arrest of pastor Rodney Howard Browne."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on April 02, 2020, 04:07:59 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 02, 2020, 03:56:58 PM

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=60331.msg1228762#msg1228762

Really? Really? Lol. I see you didn't respond to my last post and simply say whoops your bad. That post above is the same day from a different thread, not this thread. I haven't read that thread.  I don't read every thread. There are a ton of threads here with people post off topic for days, weeks, pages etc ..or where I (or others) have posted things only later to have additional posters post as if its the first time. That happens frequently.  ...But whatever floats your boat or makes ya feel good. 👍

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 02, 2020, 04:18:47 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on April 02, 2020, 04:07:59 PM

Really? Really? Lol. I see you didn't respond to my last post and simply say whoops your bad. That post above is the same day from a different thread, not this thread. I haven't read that thread.  I don't read every thread. There are a ton of threads here with people post off topic for days, weeks, pages etc ..or where I (or others) have posted things only later to have additional posters post as if its the first time. That happens frequently.  ...But whatever floats your boat or makes ya feel good. 👍

I actually posted it in THIS thread yesterday.

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=59849.msg1228555#msg1228555

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 02, 2020, 04:22:22 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 02, 2020, 03:59:11 PM

And it looks like I am going to have to go even longer before I heap DeSantis with due praise.

https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/2020/04/02/ron-desantis-quietly-signed-second-executive-order-targeting-local-coronavirus-restrictions/

"The second order requires that new state guidelines taking effect Friday morning “shall supersede any conflicting official action or order issued by local officials in response to COVID-19.” In other words, local governments cannot place any limitations that would be more strict than the statewide guidelines."

"Locally, it means Hillsborough County cannot mandate churches close their doors, a rule that drew national attention and the ire of the local Republican Party after Tampa megachurch The River of Tampa Bay held two Sunday services, leading to the arrest of pastor Rodney Howard Browne."

These creeps will always try to out-God each other.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on April 02, 2020, 04:28:35 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 02, 2020, 04:18:47 PM

I actually posted it in THIS thread yesterday.

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=59849.msg1228555#msg1228555

Fair enough.

And you also posted a plethera of off topic things in the Stan Johnson thread I started, ...about Buzz, many about the Chicago Bulls etc...

Do you see the point? I didn't see the need to point it out to you or Rocky. It happens. And compared to many others, I am mostly on topic without repeating info in a thread.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 02, 2020, 04:30:59 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on April 02, 2020, 04:28:35 PM

Fair enough.

And you also posted a plethera of off topic things in the Stan Johnson thread I started, ...about Buzz, many about the Chicago Bulls etc...

Do you see the point?

No.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on April 02, 2020, 04:37:27 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 02, 2020, 04:30:59 PM

No.

Pot kettle. Stones Glass Houses.

Maybe look in the mirror first next time.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 02, 2020, 04:47:54 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on April 02, 2020, 04:37:27 PM

Pot kettle. Stones Glass Houses.

Maybe look in the mirror first next time.

Your really are a sensitive one aren’t you.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on April 02, 2020, 04:52:01 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 02, 2020, 11:25:10 AM

It will take 8-12 months to even know if the trials are working at all. That is the minimum, and may be a little on the fast end.

In an interview I heard with Dr. Fauci, he said the 12-18 month timeline was already the fast track.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 02, 2020, 04:52:08 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 02, 2020, 09:52:59 AM

I guess you mean other than all the ones quoted in the various links posted here?

Lots of people (including Joe Biden) sent out mixed signals. Cotton was alarmed and all over it. So, no.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on April 02, 2020, 04:54:55 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 02, 2020, 04:47:54 PM

Your really are a sensitive one aren’t you.

Nope. That’s psychological projection, ...asking if I’m sensitive. I am the one that let’s people post. It’s rather silly to me. People post off topic all day here, repeat all kinds of things. I don’t feel the need to point those things out that you and/or others post, to you, or other posters, or moderators. I mostly post on topic without doing that compared to many or most. That’s why it’s rather humorous to me as I read the posts and threads.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 02, 2020, 05:24:27 PM

I feel so much better about the federal response now that Jared is on the case.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 02, 2020, 05:35:25 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 02, 2020, 05:24:27 PM

I feel so much better about the federal response now that Jared is on the case.

Hey, he solved the Middle East problem that no one else could, so he had some spare time on his hands.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 02, 2020, 05:37:05 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 02, 2020, 05:24:27 PM

I feel so much better about the federal response now that Jared is on the case.

He has a lot of experience doing whatever it takes to force undesirable tenants out of New York.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 02, 2020, 05:58:59 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on April 02, 2020, 04:07:59 PM

Really? Really? Lol. I see you didn't respond to my last post and simply say whoops your bad.

Holy F*ck dude.  I was being nice.  Not my bad at all - YOUR BAD!  Apparently you can't read you PMs either.  Here's what I sent this morning, privately to avoid embarrassing you.

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 02, 2020, 11:55:51 AM

I really wasn't trying to be argumentative.  Sorry you took it that way, and I'll try to explain myself.

Quote from: shoothoops on April 02, 2020, 08:30:16 AM

I posted that Wimbledon was canceled. Please provide link where it was already posted.

You broke this one!

Quote from: shoothoops on April 02, 2020, 08:30:16 AM

I posted an article about how the government let the ventilator contract expire. Link?

Your post: https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=59849.msg1228665#msg1228665
3 hours earlier: https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=59849.msg1228594#msg1228594

Quote from: shoothoops on April 02, 2020, 08:30:16 AM

In the post you reference above, the post was about two new articles I have not seen posted regarding the cruise ship and that only Floridians are being let off. Can you post the links where they were already posted?

Your post: https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=59849.msg1228680#msg1228680
About 6 hours earlier: https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=60350.msg1228561#msg1228561

Quote from: shoothoops on April 02, 2020, 08:30:16 AM

(i also posted about Stan's new staff in the Stan thread I started, but you may have missed it since most of the thread is filled with posts not about Stan)

I was only referring to covid topics.

If you want to keep posting things without reading first fine, but I'll keep pointing out where others have already discussed things.  You're welcome.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 02, 2020, 06:01:05 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 02, 2020, 04:52:08 PM

Lots of people (including Joe Biden) sent out mixed signals. Cotton was alarmed and all over it. So, no.

Did Diane Feinstein send "mixed signals" as well? She was communicating with DHHS a week before Cotton (see my post above), and I haven't seen anything to indicate that she sent out anything to lower the red flag.

The fact is that while Cotton deserves some praise for raising peoples' awareness, he certainly wasn't the first or only person to do so. And whatever credit he gets for raising awareness, he ought to be docked a few points for tying it to the debunked conspiracy theory about COVID-19 being engineered in a Chinese lab. Because when you tie your warnings to an easily-debunked theory, it causes people to wonder about your credibility. Just provide the scientifically sound warning, but leave it at that...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 02, 2020, 06:12:57 PM

Quote from: cheebs09 on April 02, 2020, 04:52:01 PM

In an interview I heard with Dr. Fauci, he said the 12-18 month timeline was already the fast track.

I believe the 12-18 months is for it to be in wide use.

I was citing a timeline for approved and ready for use. There are some logistical hurdles beyond that, and I was taking into consideration that some trials have been moving a long for almost a month now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on April 02, 2020, 06:14:29 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 02, 2020, 03:11:17 PM

Talk about an exaggeration.  Even according to Fox news...
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/michigan-reverses-course-on-trump-touted-coronavirus-drugs

- Michigan gov banned it for off-label use - saving their stock for intended treatments
- Then the FDA declared it OK to use off-label without a clinical trial, and opened up their stock,- So Michigan said fine, give us some, we'll try it for covid

Not as "reverse course" as you present it.

come on rock, at face value, yes/maybe.  if you peel away all the possible excuses and with an honest face, you know what was going on here.   you know gosh darn well that she was getting heat. in politics, EVERYTHING is calculated.  her state is one of the harder hit areas. she sits back disallowing "that drug" from being used in her state while people are dying, she's gonna make uncle joe appear astute.

wait...now fox news is cool? 

     of course they are going to put the disclaimer in there because it is true.  as i have mentioned in previous posts.  we use off label drugs for many other uses than their original primary intent.  aspirin was originally used for pain relief.  now its used for a blood thinner among many other things.  as drugs are being used, secondary and tertiary uses are discovered.  the drug itself is safe.  now that doesn't mean someone may have an adverse reaction.   

    let's be terribly honest here-if you and/or a family member or someone you really care about, has the virus, are you going to sit around and do nothing aside from the routine care they've been giving in the beginning?  if so, better get ready for that "one call" dude or a whole bunch of others are salivating on the side line ready to carpet bomb the country with their "better call saul" cards
 

i know this is going to cause a strong reaction, but sometimes i get a funny feeling that some don't really want to conquer this thing...too fast...hmmmm  i know, tin foil hat and black helicopters about

always half FULL


 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 02, 2020, 06:23:08 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 02, 2020, 05:24:27 PM

I feel so much better about the federal response now that Jared is on the case.

Pelosi set up a select committee today in the house too. 

This crisis is now over.  The house and Jared to save the day.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 02, 2020, 06:50:35 PM

France is scary today.

2,116 new cases
1,355 new deaths.

I think they may have some testing issues there too.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 02, 2020, 06:59:39 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 02, 2020, 06:50:35 PM

France is scary today.

2,116 new cases
1,355 new deaths.

I think they may have some testing issues there too.

There is a note on this with worldometers.

France today reported 884 additional deaths that have occurred in nursing homes over the past days and weeks [source]. The French Government did not include these deaths in their official count, as their count only takes into consideration deaths of hospitalized patients. Following international standards of correct inclusion, our statistics will include these deaths, and will add them to the April 2, 2020 count following the attribution criteria of date of report.

If and when the French government determines and communicates the correct distribution of these additional deaths over time, we will adjust the historical data accordingly. A similar issue took place on February 12, when China reported an additional 13,332 new cases in a single day due to a change in how cases were diagnosed and reported in Hubei.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 02, 2020, 07:04:39 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 02, 2020, 06:59:39 PM

There is a note on this with worldometers.

France today reported 884 additional deaths that have occurred in nursing homes over the past days and weeks [source]. The French Government did not include these deaths in their official count, as their count only takes into consideration deaths of hospitalized patients. Following international standards of correct inclusion, our statistics will include these deaths, and will add them to the April 2, 2020 count following the attribution criteria of date of report.

If and when the French government determines and communicates the correct distribution of these additional deaths over time, we will adjust the historical data accordingly. A similar issue took place on February 12, when China reported an additional 13,332 new cases in a single day due to a change in how cases were diagnosed and reported in Hubei.

Thanks, that is good to know. Otherwise the situation in France was even more scary than it was.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 02, 2020, 07:06:38 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 02, 2020, 04:52:08 PM

Lots of people (including Joe Biden) sent out mixed signals. Cotton was alarmed and all over it. So, no.

It is true that many politicians sent mixed signals.  It is also true that many politicians besides Cotton raised serious concerns at early on, he was hardly alone. 

His concerns had the added layer of conspiracy theory laced with xenophobia.  Even now he continues to spread debunked theories, as documented in the links in this thread, even after the source he was using said he was wrong and he should stop saying it.

So, yes.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 02, 2020, 07:10:56 PM

Hospital leaders who say they don’t have proper equipment are merely “complainers” according to our leader.

In Florida, the governor banned cities from closing churches during the outbreak.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 02, 2020, 07:16:59 PM

Apologies if this specific update has already been posted. Earlier, someone mentioned that Mayo Clinic was close to developing an antibody test to determine who has had COVID and recovered.

The article below indicates that the test will be rolled out this coming Monday:

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/04/01/mayo-clinic-expects-covid19-antibody-test-to-be-ready-monday

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 02, 2020, 07:20:08 PM

This is a slightly old link (at least in terms of how rapidly this is evolving) but with the discussion of vaccines I recalled hearing this woman, the first live volunteer to test one of the new vaccines, give an interview.

I'm curious if any of the medical professionals on the board know, why is there a 14-month trial period?  Is there something special about that amount of time?

https://www.livescience.com/first-person-coronavirus-vaccine-clinical-trial.html
 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 02, 2020, 07:27:22 PM

Social distancing within the home with relatives?  Anyone doing this?  New Jersey governor recommending. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Johnny B on April 02, 2020, 07:32:17 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 02, 2020, 07:27:22 PM

Social distancing within the home with relatives?  Anyone doing this?  New Jersey governor recommending.

This is probably not to practical. I mean even if you have a giant home i guess. Still if somone in the house has it its gonna get everyone in all likelihood

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 02, 2020, 07:43:14 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 02, 2020, 07:27:22 PM

Social distancing within the home with relatives?  Anyone doing this?  New Jersey governor recommending.

Sounds like a recipe for mental health issues. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 02, 2020, 07:46:39 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 02, 2020, 07:27:22 PM

Social distancing within the home with relatives?  Anyone doing this?  New Jersey governor recommending.

The bigger the extended family, the greater chance someone is already carrying the virus without knowing it. If the family is willing to take those chances...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 02, 2020, 08:09:17 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 02, 2020, 06:14:29 PM

i know this is going to cause a strong reaction, but sometimes i get a funny feeling that some don't really want to conquer this thing...too fast...hmmmm  i know, tin foil hat and black helicopters about

Yeah, that's the exact impression I got from our Prez up until a few days ago!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on April 02, 2020, 08:18:42 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 02, 2020, 05:58:59 PM

Holy F*ck dude.  I was being nice.  Not my bad at all - YOUR BAD!  Apparently you can't read you PMs either.  Here's what I sent this morning, privately to avoid embarrassing you.
You broke this one!
Your post: https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=59849.msg1228665#msg1228665
3 hours earlier: https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=59849.msg1228594#msg1228594
Your post: https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=59849.msg1228680#msg1228680
About 6 hours earlier: https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=60350.msg1228561#msg1228561
I was only referring to covid topics.


If you want to keep posting things without reading first fine, but I'll keep pointing out where others have already discussed things.  You're welcome.

Settle down. No I hadn't read my pm's within minutes or hours of you sending a pm. I first found out I had one this evening. And it appears this is an edited version of what you sent.

I believe you are having a difficult time being called out by some others for your political posts...being a moderator and all.

Tip: Try keeping some threads on the various boards on topic and try to follow some of your own "rules" before coming for me.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 02, 2020, 08:18:45 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 02, 2020, 07:27:22 PM

Social distancing within the home with relatives?  Anyone doing this?  New Jersey governor recommending.

I know a few families that are only socializing with each other...kids on distance learning, parents wfh or sah.  Think they're a bunch of idiots but whatever.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 02, 2020, 08:20:13 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 02, 2020, 06:14:29 PM

come on rock, at face value, yes/maybe.  if you peel away all the possible excuses and with an honest face, you know what was going on here.   you know gosh darn well that she was getting heat. in politics, EVERYTHING is calculated.  her state is one of the harder hit areas. she sits back disallowing "that drug" from being used in her state while people are dying, she's gonna make uncle joe appear astute.

wait...now fox news is cool? 

     of course they are going to put the disclaimer in there because it is true.  as i have mentioned in previous posts.  we use off label drugs for many other uses than their original primary intent.  aspirin was originally used for pain relief.  now its used for a blood thinner among many other things.  as drugs are being used, secondary and tertiary uses are discovered.  the drug itself is safe.  now that doesn't mean someone may have an adverse reaction.   

    let's be terribly honest here-if you and/or a family member or someone you really care about, has the virus, are you going to sit around and do nothing aside from the routine care they've been giving in the beginning?  if so, better get ready for that "one call" dude or a whole bunch of others are salivating on the side line ready to carpet bomb the country with their "better call saul" cards
 

i know this is going to cause a strong reaction, but sometimes i get a funny feeling that some don't really want to conquer this thing...too fast...hmmmm  i know, tin foil hat and black helicopters about

always half FULL

It’s gonna cause a strong g reaction because it is an absolutely dumb thing to say.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: BM1090 on April 02, 2020, 08:22:28 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on April 02, 2020, 08:18:45 PM

I know a few families that are only socializing with each other...kids on distance learning, parents wfh or sah.  Think they're a bunch of idiots but whatever.

Maybe I'm misreading, but isn't this exactly what we're all being asked to do?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 02, 2020, 08:26:35 PM

Quote from: BM1090 on April 02, 2020, 08:22:28 PM

Maybe I'm misreading, but isn't this exactly what we're all being asked to do?

Yep.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 02, 2020, 08:28:48 PM

edit: shoothoops,  I sent you another PM.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 02, 2020, 08:41:55 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 02, 2020, 06:14:29 PM

come on rock, at face value, yes/maybe.  if you peel away all the possible excuses and with an honest face, you know what was going on here.   you know gosh darn well that she was getting heat. in politics, EVERYTHING is calculated.  her state is one of the harder hit areas. she sits back disallowing "that drug" from being used in her state while people are dying, she's gonna make uncle joe appear astute.

wait...now fox news is cool? 

     of course they are going to put the disclaimer in there because it is true.  as i have mentioned in previous posts.  we use off label drugs for many other uses than their original primary intent.  aspirin was originally used for pain relief.  now its used for a blood thinner among many other things.  as drugs are being used, secondary and tertiary uses are discovered.  the drug itself is safe.  now that doesn't mean someone may have an adverse reaction.   

    let's be terribly honest here-if you and/or a family member or someone you really care about, has the virus, are you going to sit around and do nothing aside from the routine care they've been giving in the beginning?  if so, better get ready for that "one call" dude or a whole bunch of others are salivating on the side line ready to carpet bomb the country with their "better call saul" cards
 

i know this is going to cause a strong reaction, but sometimes i get a funny feeling that some don't really want to conquer this thing...too fast...hmmmm  i know, tin foil hat and black helicopters about

always half FULL

Rocket, I 100% agree with you. But that is a TOTALLY different situation than docs writing scripts for themselves for the medication for prophylactic use.

Someone has the disease? Yes, use the drug. No symptoms/positive test? Then no, you shouldn't be using or writing for friends/family to use.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on April 02, 2020, 08:44:07 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 02, 2020, 08:28:48 PM

Um.  OK. 
Uh, no.  Pic of my PMs below.
What?  That's some wild speculation.
Who's coming for who?  You've lost it bro.  I've merely pointed out that you are posting redundantly, and you replied like a crazed man.

Huh? I couldn't be more calm and relaxed all day. I believe you are projecting. Maybe go point out all the off topic posters in the Stan thread or perhaps the repeat posts in the recruiting thread after info is posted multiple times. I believe many of my posts are both on topic and not repeated info. You can either keep going or let it go and move on. That's up to you.

You sent me a pm today, and, apparently you freaked out because I hadn't read it yet. All you had to do was ask me to check my pm's as to not take away from the thread.

I don't usually check my pm's but I will moving forward. i am replying to one right now from March 26th so I am catching up. 👍

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Lens on April 02, 2020, 09:28:04 PM

Talked to my brother in law and his wife in Hong Kong today.  HK is shutting down bars (again) as of Friday.  They are being hit by the 2nd wave.  It's all blamed on ex-Pats and boarding school kids who "escaped" during their quarantine now coming back and re-infecting everyone.  The best thing anyone could have done was ride out the storm in HK.  Now they are only making it worse.  Schools have yet to re-open.  Some businesses re-opened for a week and then shut back down.  Restaurants are open.

Other notes:

- They think China is by and large very accurately reporting
- My brother-in-law sees numbers every day from China for his job (American company, activity coming back online) 
- China wouldn’t allow his places to reopen, lift travel restrictions, etc. if it was still alive
- China is obsessed with its world reputation and wouldn’t play games

Bottomline:

You have to stay in your town thru thick and thin (ppl who are riding this out in FLA who will come back to the Midwest are problematic)

They think we’re screwed bc what really kills this thing is everyone sheltering in place for 2 weeks together   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 02, 2020, 09:38:46 PM

Quote from: BM1090 on April 02, 2020, 08:22:28 PM

Maybe I'm misreading, but isn't this exactly what we're all being asked to do?

No, multiple families are hanging out together

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Bo Ryan's Massage Therapist on April 02, 2020, 09:41:15 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 02, 2020, 07:20:08 PM

This is a slightly old link (at least in terms of how rapidly this is evolving) but with the discussion of vaccines I recalled hearing this woman, the first live volunteer to test one of the new vaccines, give an interview.

I'm curious if any of the medical professionals on the board know, why is there a 14-month trial period?  Is there something special about that amount of time?

https://www.livescience.com/first-person-coronavirus-vaccine-clinical-trial.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/2020/03/19/opinion/why-will-coronavirus-vaccine-take-so-long/%3foutputType=amp

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 02, 2020, 09:50:20 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on April 02, 2020, 09:38:46 PM

No, multiple families are hanging out together

From what I've seen and read this is permissible in a way. it's called "expanding your isolation circle." Basically, you 100% self-isolate with your family for 2 weeks. When that 2 weeks is up, and no one in your house is demonstrating symptoms, then you can be "self-isolate" with your family and another small group who has also been self-isolating by themselves for 2 weeks.

Sounds like you're saying people are intermingling without that initial isolation which is a no-no.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on April 02, 2020, 09:52:14 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 02, 2020, 08:09:17 PM

Yeah, that's the exact impression I got from our Prez up until a few days ago!

  hmmm, interesting...careful where ya wear that MAGA hat  ;) 



another drug showing promise, but full disclosure-i bought gilead about 2 years ago, not knowing the role they may play here.  i'm actually more guardedly optimistic/pessimistic about remdesivir than the hydroxychlorquine + zpack


https://www.foxnews.com/science/family-of-34-year-old-coronavirus-patient-on-life-support-makes-plea-for-remdesivir

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on April 02, 2020, 09:58:28 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 02, 2020, 08:41:55 PM

Rocket, I 100% agree with you. But that is a TOTALLY different situation than docs writing scripts for themselves for the medication for prophylactic use.

Someone has the disease? Yes, use the drug. No symptoms/positive test? Then no, you shouldn't be using or writing for friends/family to use.

i think we are in agreement here as well.  i was using the fact that docs were taking the drug themselves and prescribing for friends and family as a testament to their belief that it works, not whether it was right or wrong.  but it is unethical, so therefore wrong.

  do i blame a doc fighting this thing on the front line and self-medicating?  i have to say no. because if it is keeping them relevant and healthy to continue to work-win-win. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 02, 2020, 09:59:16 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 02, 2020, 09:52:14 PM

  hmmm, interesting...careful where ya wear that MAGA hat  ;) 



another drug showing promise, but full disclosure-i bought gilead about 2 years ago, not knowing the role they may play here.  i'm actually more guardedly optimistic/pessimistic about remdesivir than the hydroxychlorquine + zpack

I'm more optimistic about remdesivir. I can give some biochemical logic for why it would work. There isn't a rational reason why hydroxychloroquine + Zpack would work. Doesn't mean it won't, lots of things work without us being able to explain it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on April 02, 2020, 10:00:48 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 02, 2020, 09:59:16 PM

I'm more optimistic about remdesivir. I can give some biochemical logic for why it would work. There isn't a rational reason why hydroxychloroquine + Zpack would work. Doesn't mean it won't, lots of things work without us being able to explain it.

i hope you're right forget!!  as i said, i invested in gilead back when it was in mid $50's...baby needs new shoes!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: BM1090 on April 02, 2020, 11:20:04 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on April 02, 2020, 09:38:46 PM

No, multiple families are hanging out together

I misunderstood, thanks for expanding.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 02, 2020, 11:45:21 PM

Tony Boselli:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28988496/tony-boselli-recalls-hospital-stay-want-die-here

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 03, 2020, 01:05:49 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 02, 2020, 09:50:20 PM

From what I've seen and read this is permissible in a way. it's called "expanding your isolation circle." Basically, you 100% self-isolate with your family for 2 weeks. When that 2 weeks is up, and no one in your house is demonstrating symptoms, then you can be "self-isolate" with your family and another small group who has also been self-isolating by themselves for 2 weeks.

Sounds like you're saying people are intermingling without that initial isolation which is a no-no.

Honestly don't know.  It was until the weather got nicer and you started seeing things.  Could have given it the 2 weeks and said F es.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 03, 2020, 06:15:00 AM

https://rebelem.com/covid-19-hypoxemia-a-better-and-still-safe-way/

Something interesting to consider.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 03, 2020, 07:20:07 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 02, 2020, 09:50:20 PM

From what I've seen and read this is permissible in a way. it's called "expanding your isolation circle." Basically, you 100% self-isolate with your family for 2 weeks. When that 2 weeks is up, and no one in your house is demonstrating symptoms, then you can be "self-isolate" with your family and another small group who has also been self-isolating by themselves for 2 weeks.

Sounds like you're saying people are intermingling without that initial isolation which is a no-no.

What I have heard repeatedly is that you should only hang out with the people you live with. Because its doubtful that your family completely self isolates. Someone goes to the store for instance.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 03, 2020, 07:34:16 AM

This is what an administration downplaying the significance of this leads to.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2020/04/02/us-exports-masks-ppe-china-surged-early-phase-coronavirus/5109747002/

“ The White House and congressional intelligence committees were briefed on the scope and threat of the coronavirus in January and February, but President Donald Trump has not stopped exports of key medical equipment – a move taken by at least 54 other countries so far.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 03, 2020, 07:40:29 AM

The speed combined with the breadth of this crisis is one that the world has never seen. 

Even with some latitude for that, we’ve been late to everything related to the health crisis, including things that would seem relatively simple/easy.  We are still on the elementary part (stay home and check the spread).  I just don’t see how we succeed at the sophisticated at this point (blood tests, clearing people, contact tracing on relapse spread, etc).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 03, 2020, 07:45:22 AM

Right. In retrospect we should have locked everything down three weeks ago. Everywhere. Through the end of April.

That would have seemed like an overreaction but undoubtedly would have been the right thing to do.

The fact that some states are still refusing to do this is incredible.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 03, 2020, 07:52:37 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 03, 2020, 07:45:22 AM

Right. In retrospect we should have locked everything down three weeks ago. Everywhere. Through the end of April.

That would have seemed like an overreaction but undoubtedly would have been the right thing to do.

The fact that some states are still refusing to do this is incredible.

I saw a great quote from one of the guys from the WHO and im paraphrasing - everything done in advance of a pandemic seems like an over-reaction, but every action in hindsight seems to be too little. 

He was one of the Ebola leaders and was encouraging people just to act and worry about the 'chatter' later.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 03, 2020, 08:24:48 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 03, 2020, 07:34:16 AM

This is what an administration downplaying the significance of this leads to.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2020/04/02/us-exports-masks-ppe-china-surged-early-phase-coronavirus/5109747002/

“ The White House and congressional intelligence committees were briefed on the scope and threat of the coronavirus in January and February, but President Donald Trump has not stopped exports of key medical equipment – a move taken by at least 54 other countries so far.”

“I don’t take responsibility at all.”

That is the key to the entire response.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 03, 2020, 08:38:59 AM

Quote from: The Lens on April 02, 2020, 09:28:04 PM

Talked to my brother in law and his wife in Hong Kong today.  HK is shutting down bars (again) as of Friday.  They are being hit by the 2nd wave.  It's all blamed on ex-Pats and boarding school kids who "escaped" during their quarantine now coming back and re-infecting everyone.  The best thing anyone could have done was ride out the storm in HK.  Now they are only making it worse.  Schools have yet to re-open.  Some businesses re-opened for a week and then shut back down.  Restaurants are open.

Other notes:

- They think China is by and large very accurately reporting
- My brother-in-law sees numbers every day from China for his job (American company, activity coming back online) 
- China wouldn’t allow his places to reopen, lift travel restrictions, etc. if it was still alive
- China is obsessed with its world reputation and wouldn’t play games

Bottomline:

You have to stay in your town thru thick and thin (ppl who are riding this out in FLA who will come back to the Midwest are problematic)

They think we’re screwed bc what really kills this thing is everyone sheltering in place for 2 weeks together

I just received this note from my companies plant manager in Guangdong Province:

- factory is fully operational with 100% attendance.
- no-one has contracted the virus,
- everyone is back from extended spring break, incl. people from the worst infected area.
- social distancing measures and sanitizing have been practiced rigorously
- local government has been very appreciative for our company being able to re-open safely and quickly

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 03, 2020, 08:50:44 AM

Quote from: BM1090 on April 02, 2020, 08:22:28 PM

Maybe I'm misreading, but isn't this exactly what we're all being asked to do?

Most families we know are hunkered down together, but still eating together, socializing, spouses having relations.  Gov Murphy is saying everyone to their own rooms, no interaction is the way I read it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 03, 2020, 09:58:02 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 03, 2020, 08:50:44 AM

Most families we know are hunkered down together, but still eating together, socializing, spouses having relations.  Gov Murphy is saying everyone to their own rooms, no interaction is the way I read it.

He must be confusing "self-isolation" (those who are known to have the disease), with "self quarantine" (those who have good reason to suspect they have the disease).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 03, 2020, 10:14:59 AM

Since everyone likes to reference the movie Contagion.

I saw this video comparing the movie to current events.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZOn6rrpU-Q&feature=youtu.be

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on April 03, 2020, 10:56:11 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 03, 2020, 08:38:59 AM

I just received this note from my companies plant manager in Guangdong Province:

- factory is fully operational with 100% attendance.
- no-one has contracted the virus,
- everyone is back from extended spring break, incl. people from the worst infected area.
- social distancing measures and sanitizing have been practiced rigorously
- local government has been very appreciative for our company being able to re-open safely and quickly

Apparently the official counts don't seem to be jibing with the funeral home activity:  https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3077644/funeral-parlour-report-fans-fears-over-wuhan-death-toll

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 03, 2020, 11:41:20 AM

Quote from: warriorchick on April 03, 2020, 10:56:11 AM

Apparently the official counts don't seem to be jibing with the funeral home activity:  https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3077644/funeral-parlour-report-fans-fears-over-wuhan-death-toll

I think it is a given that China lied.

China will also lie in the future. We shouldn't expect anything else.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on April 03, 2020, 11:51:36 AM

That China lied about the extent of COVID-19 (they obviously did) and that they are getting back to a semblance of normal are not mutually exclusive things.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 03, 2020, 11:52:28 AM

Quote from: Jockey on April 03, 2020, 11:41:20 AM

I think it is a given that China lied.

China will also lie in the future. We shouldn't expect anything else.

Yep. Whatever numbers or treatments we analyze ought to completely ignore whatever we are told by China. If we do it any other way, we’re wasting our time.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on April 03, 2020, 12:03:19 PM

Quote from: Coleman on April 03, 2020, 11:51:36 AM

That China lied about the extent of COVID-19 (they obviously did) and that they are getting back to a semblance of normal are not mutually exclusive things.

Yep.  Its a HUGE country.  Things at the epicenter were worse than they claimed and likely were dicey longer than they lead on, but I have no reason to doubt the accounts myself and others have gotten from the ground in Guandong and even Hunan.

 I have an employee in our China office in Shenzhen who has actually been looking to resign and move back closer to her family in Sichuan.  It obviously was delayed by COVID and further as some of her family were infected.  She was given the all clear a few weeks ago and is moving back mid April.  Unfortunate for the business, but good for her and the health of China as a whole.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 03, 2020, 12:26:03 PM

Quote from: Coleman on April 03, 2020, 11:51:36 AM

That China lied about the extent of COVID-19 (they obviously did) and that they are getting back to a semblance of normal are not mutually exclusive things.

An excellent point. Each country will reach a point where they have to try to get back to normal. Some will make good decisions based on the health of their people. Others will make the decision based almost solely on economic reasons, which could open the possibility for a second wave.


We will see what happens in China over the next month or two. It should be a good learning moment for the rest of us.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: keefe on April 03, 2020, 01:15:21 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 03, 2020, 08:50:44 AM

spouses having relations

What does this mean?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on April 03, 2020, 01:17:05 PM

Quote from: Coleman on April 03, 2020, 11:51:36 AM

That China lied about the extent of COVID-19 (they obviously did) and that they are getting back to a semblance of normal are not mutually exclusive things.

Great point. And comparing US death counts - whether China's are accurate or not - is a really sad dick measuring contest for a president that is looking to shirk responsibilities. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 03, 2020, 01:23:01 PM

Quote from: keefe on April 03, 2020, 01:15:21 PM

What does this mean?

This explains so much.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 03, 2020, 01:23:57 PM

Quote from: keefe on April 03, 2020, 01:15:21 PM

What does this mean?

(https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/abf27349_0e15_4c76_9806_7d5164bc366f.jpeg)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 03, 2020, 01:38:35 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on April 03, 2020, 12:03:19 PM

Yep.  Its a HUGE country.  Things at the epicenter were worse than they claimed and likely were dicey longer than they lead on, but I have no reason to doubt the accounts myself and others have gotten from the ground in Guandong and even Hunan.

I love after visits telling some people, "I just came back from Hong Kong and Guangdong Province, China".

"Did you see the Great Wall?"

"No, you idiot it's a 4 hour plane ride away!"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 03, 2020, 01:45:19 PM

Quote from: Coleman on April 03, 2020, 11:51:36 AM

That China lied about the extent of COVID-19 (they obviously did) and that they are getting back to a semblance of normal are not mutually exclusive things.

Great point.

However, there are limits to how much we can learn from them, because we will never really know how they got from point A (the initial outbreak) to point B (a semblance of normal). And if we did learn how, maybe we would learn that it was from methods of social separation and isolation that Americans would never tolerate.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 03, 2020, 01:56:42 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 03, 2020, 12:26:03 PM

We will see what happens in China over the next month or two.

Then again, we might not.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 03, 2020, 01:59:26 PM

This had some good state/city data and analysis. 

 https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/03/upshot/coronavirus-metro-area-tracker.html?smtyp=cur&smid=fb-nytimes (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/03/upshot/coronavirus-metro-area-tracker.html?smtyp=cur&smid=fb-nytimes)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 03, 2020, 02:27:32 PM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 03, 2020, 01:56:42 PM

Then again, we might not.

 :D Probably not from their gov't, but there are enough business connections that we will find out.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 03, 2020, 02:35:51 PM

https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-04-02/coronavirus-trump-pandemic-program-viruses-detection

Not a good look. Canceled the very program that looked to cooperate with China to identify potential pandemics caused by things like the Coronavirus...just months before this breakout.

That is near criminal negligence.

Here is a brief except.

"Two months before the novel coronavirus is thought to have begun its deadly advance in Wuhan, China, the Trump administration ended a $200-million pandemic early-warning program aimed at training scientists in China and other countries to detect and respond to such a threat.

The project, launched by the U.S. Agency for International Development in 2009, identified 1,200 different viruses that had the potential to erupt into pandemics, including more than 160 novel coronaviruses. The initiative, called PREDICT, also trained and supported staff in 60 foreign laboratories — including the Wuhan lab that identified SARS-CoV-2, the new coronavirus that causes COVID-19.

Field work ceased when the funding ran out in September, and organizations that worked on the PREDICT program laid off dozens of scientists and analysts, said Peter Daszak, president of EcoHealth Alliance, a key player in the program."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 03, 2020, 02:41:10 PM

The toilet paper shortage explained.
https://marker.medium.com/what-everyones-getting-wrong-about-the-toilet-paper-shortage-c812e1358fe0

"There’s another, entirely logical explanation for why stores have run out of toilet paper — one that has gone oddly overlooked in the vast majority of media coverage. It has nothing to do with psychology and everything to do with supply chains. It helps to explain why stores are still having trouble keeping it in stock, weeks after they started limiting how many a customer could purchase.

In short, the toilet paper industry is split into two, largely separate markets: commercial and consumer. The pandemic has shifted the lion’s share of demand to the latter. People actually do need to buy significantly more toilet paper during the pandemic — not because they’re making more trips to the bathroom, but because they’re making more of them at home. With some 75% of the U.S. population under stay-at-home orders, Americans are no longer using the restrooms at their workplace, in schools, at restaurants, at hotels, or in airports."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 03, 2020, 02:57:48 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 03, 2020, 02:41:10 PM

The toilet paper shortage explained.
https://marker.medium.com/what-everyones-getting-wrong-about-the-toilet-paper-shortage-c812e1358fe0

"There’s another, entirely logical explanation for why stores have run out of toilet paper — one that has gone oddly overlooked in the vast majority of media coverage. It has nothing to do with psychology and everything to do with supply chains. It helps to explain why stores are still having trouble keeping it in stock, weeks after they started limiting how many a customer could purchase.

In short, the toilet paper industry is split into two, largely separate markets: commercial and consumer. The pandemic has shifted the lion’s share of demand to the latter. People actually do need to buy significantly more toilet paper during the pandemic — not because they’re making more trips to the bathroom, but because they’re making more of them at home. With some 75% of the U.S. population under stay-at-home orders, Americans are no longer using the restrooms at their workplace, in schools, at restaurants, at hotels, or in airports."

https://www.reddit.com/r/theydidthemath/comments/fo2qyo/rdtm_toilet_paper_you_need_for_14_days_in/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 03, 2020, 03:03:25 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 03, 2020, 02:35:51 PM

https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-04-02/coronavirus-trump-pandemic-program-viruses-detection

Not a good look. Canceled the very program that looked to cooperate with China to identify potential pandemics caused by things like the Coronavirus...just months before this breakout.

That is near criminal negligence.

Here is a brief except.

"Two months before the novel coronavirus is thought to have begun its deadly advance in Wuhan, China, the Trump administration ended a $200-million pandemic early-warning program aimed at training scientists in China and other countries to detect and respond to such a threat.

The project, launched by the U.S. Agency for International Development in 2009, identified 1,200 different viruses that had the potential to erupt into pandemics, including more than 160 novel coronaviruses. The initiative, called PREDICT, also trained and supported staff in 60 foreign laboratories — including the Wuhan lab that identified SARS-CoV-2, the new coronavirus that causes COVID-19.

Field work ceased when the funding ran out in September, and organizations that worked on the PREDICT program laid off dozens of scientists and analysts, said Peter Daszak, president of EcoHealth Alliance, a key player in the program."

Yep. A Trump "cost-saving" measure that will cost us infinitely more money than we saved...and hundreds of thousands of lives as well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 03, 2020, 03:34:27 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 03, 2020, 02:35:51 PM

https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-04-02/coronavirus-trump-pandemic-program-viruses-detection

Not a good look. Canceled the very program that looked to cooperate with China to identify potential pandemics caused by things like the Coronavirus...just months before this breakout.

That is near criminal negligence.

Here is a brief except.

"Two months before the novel coronavirus is thought to have begun its deadly advance in Wuhan, China, the Trump administration ended a $200-million pandemic early-warning program aimed at training scientists in China and other countries to detect and respond to such a threat.

The project, launched by the U.S. Agency for International Development in 2009, identified 1,200 different viruses that had the potential to erupt into pandemics, including more than 160 novel coronaviruses. The initiative, called PREDICT, also trained and supported staff in 60 foreign laboratories — including the Wuhan lab that identified SARS-CoV-2, the new coronavirus that causes COVID-19.

Field work ceased when the funding ran out in September, and organizations that worked on the PREDICT program laid off dozens of scientists and analysts, said Peter Daszak, president of EcoHealth Alliance, a key player in the program."

Not surprising.

If you want to be scared, read the latest cover story from The Atlantic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 03, 2020, 03:36:01 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 03, 2020, 02:41:10 PM

The toilet paper shortage explained.
https://marker.medium.com/what-everyones-getting-wrong-about-the-toilet-paper-shortage-c812e1358fe0

"There’s another, entirely logical explanation for why stores have run out of toilet paper — one that has gone oddly overlooked in the vast majority of media coverage. It has nothing to do with psychology and everything to do with supply chains. It helps to explain why stores are still having trouble keeping it in stock, weeks after they started limiting how many a customer could purchase.

In short, the toilet paper industry is split into two, largely separate markets: commercial and consumer. The pandemic has shifted the lion’s share of demand to the latter. People actually do need to buy significantly more toilet paper during the pandemic — not because they’re making more trips to the bathroom, but because they’re making more of them at home. With some 75% of the U.S. population under stay-at-home orders, Americans are no longer using the restrooms at their workplace, in schools, at restaurants, at hotels, or in airports."

Isn't there a Kimberly-Clarke toilet paper factory in Wisconsin?

Are people stalking the factory yet and following trucks as they leave the factory?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 03, 2020, 04:29:17 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 03, 2020, 03:34:27 PM

Not surprising.

If you want to be scared, read the latest cover story from The Atlantic.

And the "truth" changes every day. One day Jared says the stockpile is not for state's use. The next day the website (which specifically stated the stockpile was for state's use in an emergency) is changed to be in line with what Jared said.

This is what they do. Even if it means more dead Americans.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 03, 2020, 04:36:57 PM

NPR
@NPR
·
Apr 3
JUST IN: President Trump says the CDC is recommending that Americans consider wearing cloth masks to help prevent the spread of the coronavirus, along with social distancing and handwashing recommendations.

“This is voluntary. I don’t think I’m going to be doing it,” he said.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 03, 2020, 05:21:15 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 03, 2020, 04:36:57 PM

NPR
@NPR
·
Apr 3
JUST IN: President Trump says the CDC is recommending that Americans consider wearing cloth masks to help prevent the spread of the coronavirus, along with social distancing and handwashing recommendations.

“This is voluntary. I don’t think I’m going to be doing it,” he said.

As per usual, leading from behind.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on April 03, 2020, 06:12:46 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 03, 2020, 05:21:15 PM

As per usual, leading from behind.

He's going to fashion his mop into a mask

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 03, 2020, 06:38:30 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 03, 2020, 03:34:27 PM

Not surprising.

If you want to be scared, read the latest cover story from The Atlantic.

Do you have a link to the story that you can post?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 03, 2020, 06:53:15 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 03, 2020, 06:38:30 PM

Do you have a link to the story that you can post?

I'm assuming this is the PR about it:
https://www.theatlantic.com/press-releases/archive/2020/03/april-cover-story/607300/

Oh, and the actual story, if you have views remaining...
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/04/how-to-destroy-a-government/606793/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 03, 2020, 06:58:31 PM

Here is another promising therapeutic.

 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/health/coronavirus-cytokine-storm-immune-system.html?smtyp=cur&smid=fb-nytimes&fbclid=IwAR2d9kj3VTpLeiK81dYQfhrEVUKB-shQiYmnl7ypGYV9zFyZTGezsu7GF0E (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/health/coronavirus-cytokine-storm-immune-system.html?smtyp=cur&smid=fb-nytimes&fbclid=IwAR2d9kj3VTpLeiK81dYQfhrEVUKB-shQiYmnl7ypGYV9zFyZTGezsu7GF0E)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 03, 2020, 07:37:28 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsVRA485Go0&feature=youtu.be

Remember this loser?  This will be hard for some to watch, I'm sure.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: real chili 83 on April 03, 2020, 08:20:23 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 01, 2020, 04:57:20 PM

You give me way too much credit. It's just simple sarcasm.

For weeks, Fox downplayed the threat of the coronavirus, characterizing it as a conspiracy by media and Dems to undermine President Trump.

Hannity and  In­graham accused the news media of whipping up “mass hysteria” and being “panic pushers.” Fox Business host Trish Regan called the alleged media-Democratic alliance “yet another attempt to impeach the president.”

Trump held a news conference on  March 13 declaring a national emergency. Until then, Trump’s allies on Fox News took the same stance as the president himself  — that this coronavirus that had sickened and killed thousands of people in China was no worse a threat than the seasonal flu.

Hannity downplayed cororavirus deaths by saying: “Twenty-six people were shot in Chicago alone over the weekend. I doubt you heard about it. You notice there’s no widespread hysteria about violence in Chicago. And this has gone on for years and years. By the way, Democratic-run cities, we see a lot of that.”

Ingraham called Democrats the “pandemic party” and displayed photos of Pelosi and Schumer alongside images of coronavirus molecules. “How sick that these people seem almost happiest when Americans are hurting,” she said. She later said, "The facts are actually pretty reassuring, but you’d never know it watching all this stuff.”

Tucker Carlson is the only one who took it somewhat seriously even as he blamed the “corrupt” media.

On March 7, Jeanine Pirro said, “All the talk about coronavirus being so much more deadly [than the flu] doesn’t reflect reality.”

Nunes appeared on Fox to say “stop panicking” and to “just go out.”



So, that is where the sarcasm comes from. Their viewers cannot be knowledgeable when they are lied to on a daily basis.

Do you really watch Fox?  Why?  There is as much spin on there as CNN, MSNBC, ETC. they are all crap. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 03, 2020, 08:58:54 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 03, 2020, 06:53:15 PM

I'm assuming this is the PR about it:
https://www.theatlantic.com/press-releases/archive/2020/03/april-cover-story/607300/

Oh, and the actual story, if you have views remaining...
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/04/how-to-destroy-a-government/606793/

That's the one. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 03, 2020, 11:44:00 PM

Mayo Clinic designated by FDA to lead research on convalescent plasma-based therapy for COVID-19.

https://www.medcitybeat.com/news-blog/2020/mayo-site-national-plasma-program

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 04, 2020, 07:58:08 AM

In NC, we had 7 coronavirus deaths on Monday. Five days later, we have 28.

Quadruple in 5 days.

Every day since the first one in which a coronavirus case was discovered several weeks ago there have been more cases than the previous day. Some of this, obviously, is due to increased testing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 04, 2020, 08:47:23 AM

Here is an investigative report on the testing debacle.

 https://apple.news/AY_JCxOLZRb-1ro0r1LMQ3w (https://apple.news/AY_JCxOLZRb-1ro0r1LMQ3w)

And a broader rundown.

 https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2020/04/04/coronavirus-government-dysfunction/?arc404=true (https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2020/04/04/coronavirus-government-dysfunction/?arc404=true)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on April 04, 2020, 09:23:39 AM

From the NY Times:

Why Covid-19 death rate is low in Germany?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/04/world/europe/germany-coronavirus-death-rate.html#click=https://t.co/Nm5EidQaha

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 04, 2020, 10:40:51 AM

https://www.npr.org/2020/04/04/826961777/u-s-may-get-more-ventilators-but-run-out-of-medicine-for-covid-19-patients

I was wondering when this was going to be a problem. Haven't heard anyone in the administration start talking about this or planning for it. Like the ventilators, no orders to stockpile yet.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 04, 2020, 10:47:06 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on April 04, 2020, 09:23:39 AM

From the NY Times:

Why Covid-19 death rate is low in Germany?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/04/world/europe/germany-coronavirus-death-rate.html#click=https://t.co/Nm5EidQaha

Two big takeaways regarding Germany.

1) They value good medical care.
2) They are run by a scientist, in a nation that respects scientists above nearly any other profession. So they listen to the scientists.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on April 04, 2020, 10:49:41 AM

"70 days squandered"

..."47 interviews with administration officials, public health experts, and others involved fighting the Pandemic."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2020/04/04/coronavirus-government-dysfunction/?arc404=true

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 04, 2020, 11:10:37 AM

Quote from: forgetful on April 04, 2020, 10:47:06 AM

Two big takeaways regarding Germany.

1) They value good medical care.
2) They are run by a scientist, in a nation that respects scientists above nearly any other profession. So they listen to the scientists.

Like the last paragraph states:

“Maybe our biggest strength in Germany,” said Professor Kräusslich, “is the rational decision-making at the highest level of government combined with the trust the government enjoys in the population.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 04, 2020, 11:42:58 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on April 04, 2020, 10:49:41 AM

"70 days squandered"

..."47 interviews with administration officials, public health experts, and others involved fighting the Pandemic."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2020/04/04/coronavirus-government-dysfunction/?arc404=true

Don’t worry. Jared is on the case.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 04, 2020, 11:45:18 AM

Quote from: Jockey on April 04, 2020, 11:42:58 AM

Don’t worry. Jared is on the case.

That is honestly something I cannot understand. I'd assume that even hardcore conservatives would be up in arms about Jared having major roles in this.

He has zero experience in this arena, and he has been far from successful in most of his other leadership roles in life. It is the definition of nepotism, and corruption, that both sides of the aisle usually rail against in authoritarian regimes worldwide.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 04, 2020, 11:50:32 AM

This seems like a positive development.

@AFP: #BREAKING Italy's intensive care virus cases drop for first time: officials https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1246472297860431879/photo/1

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on April 04, 2020, 12:07:02 PM

I’ve been keeping up with Italy via TripAdvisor posts from people there. Deaths decreased as well, but unfortunately the number of new cases reported was 300 more than yesterday, after a week or so of either decreasing or flattening. So they considered it a bit of a mixed bag. But better then two weeks ago, for sure. Lombardy continues to have the highest death rate in the country.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on April 04, 2020, 12:10:43 PM

Both deaths and new cases reported in Spain decreased yesterday.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on April 04, 2020, 12:23:12 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 04, 2020, 11:10:37 AM

Like the last paragraph states:

“Maybe our biggest strength in Germany,” said Professor Kräusslich, “is the rational decision-making at the highest level of government combined with the trust the government enjoys in the population.”

  "who... does... #2... work.... for?  come on man, bite your lip, we'll get  thru this

our government trusts our population too.  it's our media/"experts" that don't trust anything.  glad ya found something that fits your narrative though.  we(media) are a way too partisan nation to even qualify statements such as these.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 04, 2020, 12:28:45 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 04, 2020, 12:23:12 PM

  "who... does... #2... work.... for?  come on man, bite your lip, we'll get  thru this

our government trusts our population too.  it's our media/"experts" that don't trust anything.  glad ya found something that fits your narrative though.  we(media) are a way too partisan nation to even qualify statements such as these.   

It’s a quote from a German.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on April 04, 2020, 12:37:18 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 04, 2020, 11:42:58 AM

Don’t worry. Jared is on the case.

i'll take jared any day over uncle joe but once again, you guys are constantly going after low hanging fruit while taking your eyes off the ball.  there is A LOT of stuff going on here besides jared for chriminey sakes.  i see so much hand wringing and jabbing at the extraneous stuff that does no good except the obligatory "diaper" emptying to mark your spots.  who cares about jared??  i care more about our guys working behind the scenes like the immunologist, jacob glanville,  working on engineering anibodies blocking the virus ability to attach to human cells, setting off the chain reactions leading to the illness. 

  one big thing we are realizing out of all of this is the effects of diabetes and pre-diabetes among other factors, but once again, giving people all the more reason to watch their weight, eat right and exercise.  no, i do not want a mandate, but people should be smart enough to figure this chit out.  feeds into the survival of the fittest.  we can only do so much for most people.  we have to start taking better care of ourselves in order to enjoy a better productive life

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 04, 2020, 12:39:22 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 04, 2020, 11:42:58 AM

Don’t worry. Jared is on the case.

"The supplies are ours! Ours, ours, ours! Back off you grubby states!"* Busies self changing government website to corroborate this.



* not a direct quote, merely an accurate paraphrase.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 04, 2020, 12:44:09 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 04, 2020, 12:37:18 PM

i'll take jared any day over uncle joe but once again, you guys are constantly going after low hanging fruit while taking your eyes off the ball.  there is A LOT of stuff going on here besides jared for chriminey sakes.  i see so much hand wringing and jabbing at the extraneous stuff that does no good except the obligatory "diaper" emptying to mark your spots.  who cares about jared??  i care more about our guys working behind the scenes like the immunologist, jacob glanville,  working on engineering anibodies blocking the virus ability to attach to human cells, setting off the chain reactions leading to the illness. 

  one big thing we are realizing out of all of this is the effects of diabetes and pre-diabetes among other factors, but once again, giving people all the more reason to watch their weight, eat right and exercise.  no, i do not want a mandate, but people should be smart enough to figure this chit out.  feeds into the survival of the fittest.  we can only do so much for most people.  we have to start taking better care of ourselves in order to enjoy a better productive life

tl;dr ... Don't blame government incompetence. It's your fault, fatties.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 04, 2020, 12:44:19 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 04, 2020, 12:37:18 PM

i'll take jared any day over uncle joe

Well of course you'd take the guy who has no experience in anything over the guy who was the Vice President.  Why of course you would.

<There really aren't any emojis that can capture the utter stupidity of this statement>

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: DegenerateDish on April 04, 2020, 01:01:55 PM

Trump will hold a press conference today at 2:30 pm, and will announce the state of professional sporting events moving forward.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Archies Bat on April 04, 2020, 01:27:09 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 04, 2020, 12:37:18 PM

i'll take jared any day

Just curious Rocket, on what basis or accomplishments?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 04, 2020, 01:29:57 PM

Quote from: Archies Bat on April 04, 2020, 01:27:09 PM

Just curious Rocket, on what basis or accomplishments?

This?

CORONAVIRUS HASN’T STOPPED JARED KUSHNER’S REAL ESTATE EMPIRE FROM HOUNDING TENANTS WITH DEBT COLLECTION, EVICTION LAWSUITS
https://theintercept.com/2020/04/04/jared-kushner-real-estate-company-evictions/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 04, 2020, 01:34:00 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 04, 2020, 12:39:22 PM

"The supplies are ours! Ours, ours, ours! Back off you grubby states!"* Busies self changing government website to corroborate this.



* not a direct quote, merely an accurate paraphrase.

Who better to run things during a pandemic than a guy who sold buildings for a living? Whose only 2 accomplishments in life were being born mega-rich and screwing trump's daughter.

If I ever need heart surgery, he will be the 1st one I call.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 04, 2020, 01:35:12 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 04, 2020, 12:44:19 PM

Well of course you'd take the guy who has no experience in anything over the guy who was the Vice President.  Why of course you would.

<There really aren't any emojis that can capture the utter stupidity of this statement>

Or the statementee

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on April 04, 2020, 02:04:13 PM

20,000 National Guard have been called up to help during COVID-19.

It is a 30 day order. That is just one day short of qualifying for TRICARE (Military Medicare for All) Military Health Insurance.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-sent-the-guard-to-the-coronavirus-front-line-but-denied-them-military-care

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 04, 2020, 02:05:37 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 04, 2020, 11:42:58 AM

Don’t worry. Jared is on the case.

That phrase seriously ought to be in every meme tournament for the next thousand years.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 04, 2020, 02:08:31 PM

Quote from: Archies Bat on April 04, 2020, 01:27:09 PM

Just curious Rocket, on what basis or accomplishments?

I would be interested in this, too. Seriously.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on April 04, 2020, 02:26:53 PM

Quote from: MUDish on April 04, 2020, 01:01:55 PM

Trump will hold a press conference today at 2:30 pm, and will announce the state of professional sporting events moving forward.

This should be good.  ::)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 04, 2020, 02:45:34 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 04, 2020, 12:37:18 PM

i'll take jared any day over uncle joe but once again, you guys are constantly going after low hanging fruit while taking your eyes off the ball.  there is A LOT of stuff going on here besides jared for chriminey sakes.  i see so much hand wringing and jabbing at the extraneous stuff that does no good except the obligatory "diaper" emptying to mark your spots.  who cares about jared??  i care more about our guys working behind the scenes like the immunologist, jacob glanville,  working on engineering anibodies blocking the virus ability to attach to human cells, setting off the chain reactions leading to the illness. 

  one big thing we are realizing out of all of this is the effects of diabetes and pre-diabetes among other factors, but once again, giving people all the more reason to watch their weight, eat right and exercise.  no, i do not want a mandate, but people should be smart enough to figure this chit out.  feeds into the survival of the fittest.  we can only do so much for most people.  we have to start taking better care of ourselves in order to enjoy a better productive life

There are better and more advanced versions of this out there. I posted an article about some of the ones coming out of China a week or so ago. Glanville is likely using some of their results to improve his methods.

I'm trying to figure out how Foxnews is picking their "winners" that get tons of free publicity and fundraising. Maybe Glanville wins the race, but there isn't a logical reason to be pushing his methodology, over a number of other major companies/efforts.

I just hope someone wins the race by September.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 04, 2020, 03:17:53 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 04, 2020, 10:47:06 AM

Two big takeaways regarding Germany.

1) They value good medical care.
2) They are run by a scientist, in a nation that respects scientists above nearly any other profession. So they listen to the scientists.

The US values good health care, so does Italy. 

Jimmy Carter has a science background.  I voted for him twice. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 04, 2020, 03:22:19 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 04, 2020, 12:37:18 PM

i'll take jared any day over uncle joe but once again, you guys are constantly going after low hanging fruit while taking your eyes off the ball.  there is A LOT of stuff going on here besides jared for chriminey sakes.  i see so much hand wringing and jabbing at the extraneous stuff that does no good except the obligatory "diaper" emptying to mark your spots.  who cares about jared??  i care more about our guys working behind the scenes like the immunologist, jacob glanville,  working on engineering anibodies blocking the virus ability to attach to human cells, setting off the chain reactions leading to the illness. 

  one big thing we are realizing out of all of this is the effects of diabetes and pre-diabetes among other factors, but once again, giving people all the more reason to watch their weight, eat right and exercise.  no, i do not want a mandate, but people should be smart enough to figure this chit out.  feeds into the survival of the fittest.  we can only do so much for most people.  we have to start taking better care of ourselves in order to enjoy a better productive life

As much as you want Uncle Joe to be the nominee, it will not happen in my opinion.  He is a good man, but his mental state is poor.  He is in decline and it cannot be denied.  The party will ask him to step aside and the convention in Milwaukee will bring in someone else.  My hope is this doesn’t become a fiasco I f the Bernie Bros do not get their way, because he will not be the nominee either. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on April 04, 2020, 04:17:11 PM

So...I ask all you bashers here that claim the President didn't react quickly enough, and that he needs to "listen to the experts more" mostly Dr. Fauci...How come no one has brought this up before?? I know why...will there be any apologies here from anyone?? Nope. I think the blame is going to the wrong place...

https://twitter.com/johncardillo/status/1246098728085336066?s=20

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Johnny B on April 04, 2020, 04:25:34 PM

Quote from: muguru on April 04, 2020, 04:17:11 PM

So...I ask all you bashers here that claim the President didn't react quickly enough, and that he needs to "listen to the experts more" mostly Dr. Fauci...How come no one has brought this up before?? I know why...will there be any apologies here from anyone?? Nope. I think the blame is going to the wrong place...

https://twitter.com/johncardillo/status/1246098728085336066?s=20

Lol

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Boone on April 04, 2020, 04:29:53 PM

https://politics.theonion.com/jared-kushner-says-states-should-have-planned-ahead-bef-1842664879

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 04, 2020, 04:38:17 PM

Quote from: muguru on April 04, 2020, 04:17:11 PM

So...I ask all you bashers here that claim the President didn't react quickly enough, and that he needs to "listen to the experts more" mostly Dr. Fauci...How come no one has brought this up before?? I know why...will there be any apologies here from anyone?? Nope. I think the blame is going to the wrong place...

https://twitter.com/johncardillo/status/1246098728085336066?s=20

Everyone knows you're gonna vote for your guy again no matter how he f*cked this up.

And that's your right.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 04, 2020, 05:04:45 PM

Quote from: muguru on April 04, 2020, 04:17:11 PM

So...I ask all you bashers here that claim the President didn't react quickly enough, and that he needs to "listen to the experts more" mostly Dr. Fauci...How come no one has brought this up before?? I know why...will there be any apologies here from anyone?? Nope. I think the blame is going to the wrong place...

https://twitter.com/johncardillo/status/1246098728085336066?s=20

He says the average American doesn't need to be afraid of this, right then, but that we need to be concerned and prepare, which was what the CDC was doing.

That was before the WHO confirmed person-to-person spread, they confirmed it that same day as the interview (Jan. 21st).

Compare that to the commander in chief, who on Feb. 26th said that within a couple days there would be zero cases in the US. And on March 4th said it was "very safe to fly".

Even now, we have massive failures out of the Oval Office. There is chaos, and it is due to a lack of leadership, and a lack of leadership owning their mistakes. A good start would be a smidgeon of honesty.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on April 04, 2020, 05:09:46 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 04, 2020, 04:38:17 PM

Everyone knows you're gonna vote for your guy again no matter how he f*cked this up.

And that's your right.

This is a typical response I expected from a far left liberal...instead of commenting on Dr. Fauci saying "this is nothing for the US to be worried about"(his words not mine), because you know then I've outed the narrative that the Pres f*cked this up(your words) , you attack the Pres(and me) again, because you have nothing to say...it blasts the narrative on this board out of the water. Dr Fauci...said this...this is an ACTUAL video. Again I will ask you, why has no one anywhere mentioned this before?? Because it kills the agenda, that's what.

Game over.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on April 04, 2020, 05:12:36 PM

Quote from: Johnny B on April 04, 2020, 04:25:34 PM

Lol

See, you have NO response for it, do you??...Dr Fauci(who everyone says is an Expert and they listen to him) says "This is nothing for the US to worry about". How come?? People don't like the agenda destroyed, that's why.

Besides, you're just a youngin yet Johhny...You have a lot to learn about stuff yet, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 04, 2020, 05:13:18 PM

Quote from: muguru on April 04, 2020, 05:09:46 PM

This is a typical response I expected from a far left liberal...instead of commenting on Dr. Fauci saying "this is nothing for the US to be worried about"(his words not mine), because you know then I've outed the narrative that the Pres f*cked this up(your words) , you attack the Pres(and me) again, because you have nothing to say...it blasts the narrative on this board out of the water. Dr Fauci...said this...this is an ACTUAL video. Again I will ask you, why has no one anywhere mentioned this before?? Because it kills the agenda, that's what.

Game over.

Read forgetful’s comment. It was better than mine.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 04, 2020, 05:13:36 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 04, 2020, 03:22:19 PM

As much as you want Uncle Joe to be the nominee, it will not happen in my opinion.  He is a good man, but his mental state is poor.  He is in decline and it cannot be denied.  The party will ask him to step aside and the convention in Milwaukee will bring in someone else.  My hope is this doesn’t become a fiasco I f the Bernie Bros do not get their way, because he will not be the nominee either.

In all honesty, both of them concern me because they would be in their mid-80s by the end of a second term. That said, I would take a good man in decline over the current occupant of the office.

And FWIW - if Biden or Bernie were elected and then lost it, I am confident they would have the grace to willingly hand the reins over to their VP.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on April 04, 2020, 05:15:48 PM

We could have a president who could potentially lose it at some point during his term or we could continue with a president who has never had it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Johnny B on April 04, 2020, 05:16:50 PM

Quote from: muguru on April 04, 2020, 05:12:36 PM

See, you have NO response for it, do you??...Dr Fauci(who everyone says is an Expert and they listen to him) says "This is nothing for the US to worry about". How come?? People don't like the agenda destroyed, that's why.

Besides, you're just a youngin yet Johhny...You have a lot to learn about stuff yet, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Debating hoops with u is already tiring enough. Aint gettin in a debate with you about the orange man 🥳

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on April 04, 2020, 05:17:39 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 04, 2020, 05:04:45 PM

He says the average American doesn't need to be afraid of this, right then, but that we need to be concerned and prepare, which was what the CDC was doing.

That was before the WHO confirmed person-to-person spread, they confirmed it that same day as the interview (Jan. 21st).

Compare that to the commander in chief, who on Feb. 26th said that within a couple days there would be zero cases in the US. And on March 4th said it was "very safe to fly".

Even now, we have massive failures out of the Oval Office. There is chaos, and it is due to a lack of leadership, and a lack of leadership owning their mistakes. A good start would be a smidgeon of honesty.

I ask you this in all honesty because you seem like a reasonable guy, and since no one has ever answered this, when I have asked this before...were you honestly expecting ZERO deaths from this?? That's how some people act, no doubt. Are we 100% certain that a quicker response would have "saved lives"?? What if those people infected would have died anyway?? I just have a hard time with the outrage over this when I never see people outraged this much over all the people that die from the flu every year, or suicide, or any other reason. Now, death matters more and people are outraged?? That confuses me.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on April 04, 2020, 05:18:43 PM

Quote from: Johnny B on April 04, 2020, 05:16:50 PM

Debating hoops with u is already tiring enough. Aint gettin in a debate with you about the orange man 🥳

Cuz you'll lose, just like in hoops  ;D

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 04, 2020, 05:24:40 PM

Quote from: muguru on April 04, 2020, 05:17:39 PM

I ask you this in all honesty because you seem like a reasonable guy, and since no one has ever answered this, when I have asked this before...were you honestly expecting ZERO deaths from this?? That's how some people act, no doubt. Are we 100% certain that a quicker response would have "saved lives"?? What if those people infected would have died anyway?? I just have a hard time with the outrage over this when I never see people outraged this much over all the people that die from the flu every year, or suicide, or any other reason. Now, death matters more and people are outraged?? That confuses me.

Heres what could have made a difference

**a coordinated testing plan with widespread testing available

**ramp up of production of PPE and ventilators.

**a coordinated and timed nationwide stay at home plan

**a better coordinated economic plan

Instead the administration downplayed the problem for too long and now it’s all catch up. And even now, we do not have coordinated stay at home which is going to make this last longer.

And you are STILL comparing this to the flu?  Wake the f**k up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 04, 2020, 05:25:09 PM

I like covfefe hamberders.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 04, 2020, 05:32:16 PM

Quote from: muguru on April 04, 2020, 05:17:39 PM

I ask you this in all honesty because you seem like a reasonable guy, and since no one has ever answered this, when I have asked this before...were you honestly expecting ZERO deaths from this?? That's how some people act, no doubt. Are we 100% certain that a quicker response would have "saved lives"?? What if those people infected would have died anyway?? I just have a hard time with the outrage over this when I never see people outraged this much over all the people that die from the flu every year, or suicide, or any other reason. Now, death matters more and people are outraged?? That confuses me.

You can go back to the beginning of this thread. I always thought there would be deaths. Especially if we didn't act fast. I was optimistic initially that we could still get ahead of this, I honestly didn't believe we could have been failing so terribly on testing. I also didn't fully appreciate the delay between initial infection and hospitalization (often 2-4 weeks), but I was expecting a lot of deaths.

And yes, we are 100% certain that a quicker response would have saved lives. If we had adequate tests right away, we could have done widespread testing and contact tracing of everyone returning from possible infection spots overseas. And once there was domestic spread continued such testing like was done in Germany.

I don't think we could have completely stopped spread, because there is a human element to this, but we failed in an epic manner. Back on Feb. 1st, I met with colleagues that do epidemiologically models (their's has been very accurate), they spelled out then two scenarios, one with the testing we should have done, the other with what was going on. They also said what we should do to limit the spread (social distancing). The number of lives it cost is huge.

Equally as important, is the economic cost. If we had adequate testing and protocols in place from the beginning, we may not have had to shut down everything, or at least done so on a more limited schedule. How much we could have stopped the shut down, depends on if we shut down travel with Europe earlier, instead of saying "air travel is very safe".

This is not the flu. New Orleans had as many people die from COVID in 6-days, as died the entire 2018 flu season. That is with shutting everything done, and sheltering-in-place. Very likely some of us on here will either lose loved ones, or possibly lose our own lives to this. A lot of those lives could have been saved. And sadly, we are still not getting the leadership we need.

To be fair though, I liken this situation to being dealt a bad poker hand. You're almost certainly going to lose, but how much you lose depends how we play the hand. Right now, we've tried to bluff our way to a victory. COVID was never going to fold. So now the question moving forward is to we keep pushing our money into the pot and possibly go all in (open everything back up), or do we cut our loses and get out while we can (shut things down for 2-3 months). We aren't getting the money (mistakes) we put in already back, the focus needs to be on making sure we don't keep making mistakes.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 04, 2020, 05:34:23 PM

A few questions for discussion:

1. Why should the testing/treatment of Corona be free, but other health problems (especially life-threatening such as cancer) shouldn't be free?

2. If we can afford a $4.5 trillion bailout of corporations, can't we afford medicare for all or other proposed expensive policies?

3. If you believe the government response to this pandemic has been an overreach, did you also believe the government response to 9/11 was an overreach?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 04, 2020, 05:41:20 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 04, 2020, 05:24:40 PM

Heres what could have made a difference

**a coordinated testing plan with widespread testing available

**ramp up of production of PPE and ventilators.

**a coordinated and timed nationwide stay at home plan

**a better coordinated economic plan

Instead the administration downplayed the problem for too long and now it’s all catch up. And even now, we do not have coordinated stay at home which is going to make this last longer.

And you are STILL comparing this to the flu?  Wake the f**k up.

Bingo.

See South Korea. They completely schooled Trump on how to deal with this. Zero deaths? Nope. But a hell of a lot better job of pandemic management than Trump’s. SK was acting, while Trump was telling us not to change our daily routines because “one day - it’s like a miracle - it will disappear.”

And for the long delay between that and his long-belated admission that this really IS a big deal, he will forever shoulder the blame.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 04, 2020, 05:50:18 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 04, 2020, 05:34:23 PM

A few questions for discussion:

1. Why should the testing/treatment of Corona be free, but other health problems (especially life-threatening such as cancer) shouldn't be free?

2. If we can afford a $4.5 trillion bailout of corporations, can't we afford medicare for all or other proposed expensive policies?

3. If you believe the government response to this pandemic has been an overreach, did you also believe the government response to 9/11 was an overreach?

A few thoughts:

1. COVID-19 is unique, because prompt testing of one person might prevent another hundred (or more) from getting sick. The combination of transmissibility and severity is like nothing we have seen in our lifetimes. I can see arguments for free testing for other conditions, but none as compelling as this.

2. We probably can’t afford both...but I would prefer that we spend the money on healthcare as opposed to corporate welfare. The question is whether our legislators and POTUS have the political will to make big donors and lobbyists unhappy. I won’t hold my breath.

3. I don’t think the government is overreacting to COVID-19; I think it should have acted sooner and in a more coordinated and scientifically based manner.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on April 04, 2020, 05:51:34 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 04, 2020, 05:24:40 PM

Heres what could have made a difference

**a coordinated testing plan with widespread testing available

**ramp up of production of PPE and ventilators.

**a coordinated and timed nationwide stay at home plan

**a better coordinated economic plan

Instead the administration downplayed the problem for too long and now it’s all catch up. And even now, we do not have coordinated stay at home which is going to make this last longer.

And you are STILL comparing this to the flu?  Wake the f**k up.

I am NOT comparing it to the flu...I asked a question and as you always do, when you have no way out and have been beaten, you do a "run around" and "dodge". People are OUTRAGED about people dying from Covid-19, how come there isn't the same kind of outrage when people die from other ways?? No one screams then and acts all disturbed and angry like they are now.

Also, the second part of my question was...how do we know for CERTAIN more lives would have been saved?? That's an assumption isn't it?? Those people could have died anyway, right??

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 04, 2020, 05:54:18 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 04, 2020, 05:34:23 PM

A few questions for discussion:

1. Why should the testing/treatment of Corona be free, but other health problems (especially life-threatening such as cancer) shouldn't be free?

2. If we can afford a $4.5 trillion bailout of corporations, can't we afford medicare for all or other proposed expensive policies?

3. If you believe the government response to this pandemic has been an overreach, did you also believe the government response to 9/11 was an overreach?

Citizens who lost health coverage in past 2 weeks due to economic collapse:

USA 3,500,000
Australia 0
Belgium 0
Canada 0
Chile 0
Denmark 0
Finland 0
France 0
Germany 0
Greece 0
Hungary 0
Italy 0
Japan 0
New Zealand 0
Norway 0
Portugal 0
S Korea 0
Spain 0
Sweden 0
Turkey 0
UK 0

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 04, 2020, 05:55:51 PM

A piece focusing on what it’s like in the ICU

 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/04/nyregion/coronavirus-hospital-brooklyn.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/04/nyregion/coronavirus-hospital-brooklyn.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 04, 2020, 06:00:38 PM

Quote from: muguru on April 04, 2020, 05:51:34 PM

I am NOT comparing it to the flu...I asked a question and as you always do, when you have no way out and have been beaten, you do a "run around" and "dodge". People are OUTRAGED about people dying from Covid-19, how come there isn't the same kind of outrage when people die from other ways?? No one screams then and acts all disturbed and angry like they are now.

Because controlling the spread of the virus can save lives.  Because getting control of the virus is essential to getting the economy running again.  Because getting control of the virus will allow our health care system and workers to not collapse. 

Guru this is a global test.  So far we are doing average on the health response.  Still to be seen how we stuck up against the developed world in final form.  This isn’t going away. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 04, 2020, 06:22:17 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 04, 2020, 06:00:38 PM

Because controlling the spread of the virus can save lives.  Because getting control of the virus is essential to getting the economy running again.  Because getting control of the virus will allow our health care system and workers to not collapse. 

Guru this is a global test.  So far we are doing average on the health response.  Still to be seen how we stuck up against the developed world in final form.  This isn’t going away.

I get guru's points.  The question i have had all along is if shut everything down for 2-3 months what happens when we come back and open things up.  Is it really better?  Are the deaths just spread out over a longer period of time so it appears better.  China is almost 6 months into this and do they have a drug out there to lesson the impact once you have it.  All I hear is about items that may lesson the impact or get people better but nothing concrete.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 04, 2020, 06:27:27 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on April 04, 2020, 06:22:17 PM

I get guru's points.  The question i have had all along is if shut everything down for 2-3 months what happens when we come back and open things up.  Is it really better?  Are the deaths just spread out over a longer period of time so it appears better.  China is almost 6 months into this and do they have a drug out there to lesson the impact once you have it.  All I hear is about items that may lesson the impact or get people better but nothing concrete.

The fatality rate would be much higher if we all get this at once because essentially no one gets the hospital bed.  Time allows more care and buys time for therapeutic treatment and vaccine.  Also if we ever get control of this thing you can test and contact trace outbreaks.  Finally I am convinced normal is not coming until there is a vaccine.  There are multiple countries that are seeing cases pop back up like Singapore and Hong Kong. 

So not the same deaths.  I can tell you that if this is uncontrolled the economy will be hit hard regardless.  Imagine a whole plant getting sick. 

Also we need a system for after we get control.  Antibody tests to clear people officially.  Intrusive contact tracing and tracking on cell phone.  Maybe other things.  I think if we get serious about this and getting the economy going, we will need to give up some civil liberties for a period of time.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 04, 2020, 06:29:52 PM

Quote from: muguru on April 04, 2020, 05:51:34 PM

I am NOT comparing it to the flu...I asked a question and as you always do, when you have no way out and have been beaten, you do a "run around" and "dodge". People are OUTRAGED about people dying from Covid-19, how come there isn't the same kind of outrage when people die from other ways?? No one screams then and acts all disturbed and angry like they are now.

Also, the second part of my question was...how do we know for CERTAIN more lives would have been saved?? That's an assumption isn't it?? Those people could have died anyway, right??

If you believe the modeling done by epidemiologists, yes. An earlier coordinated response would have saved lives.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 04, 2020, 06:58:22 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 04, 2020, 06:27:27 PM

The fatality rate would be much higher if we all get this at once because essentially no one gets the hospital bed.  Time allows more care and buys time for therapeutic treatment and vaccine.  Also if we ever get control of this thing you can test and contact trace outbreaks.  Finally I am convinced normal is not coming until there is a vaccine. There are multiple countries that are seeing cases pop back up like Singapore and Hong Kong. 

So not the same deaths.  I can tell you that if this is uncontrolled the economy will be hit hard regardless.  Imagine a whole plant getting sick. 

Also we need a system for after we get control.  Antibody tests to clear people officially.  Intrusive contact tracing and tracking on cell phone.  Maybe other things.  I think if we get serious about this and getting the economy going, we will need to give up some civil liberties for a period of time.

That is what scares me.  normal not coming until a year from now would be insane!!
It would seem to be easier to put restraints on those that or more at risk.  I know everyone is at risk but if you take say anyone over 60 and those with underlying conditions that have had shown to give more problems and have them stay at home.  This would seem lesson the burden on the health care systems and also keep the country moving

 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 04, 2020, 07:06:47 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on April 04, 2020, 06:58:22 PM

That is what scares me.  normal not coming until a year from now would be insane!!
It would seem to be easier to put restraints on those that or more at risk.  I know everyone is at risk but if you take say anyone over 60 and those with underlying conditions that have had shown to give more problems and have them stay at home.  This would seem lesson the burden on the health care systems and also keep the country moving

I think we are saying the same thing in that it’s not normal to have to lock up 60 year olds or not seeing your parents.  That too will impact the economy.  They are the ones with all the money to spend!   Odd times.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 04, 2020, 07:07:01 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 04, 2020, 06:27:27 PM

The fatality rate would be much higher if we all get this at once because essentially no one gets the hospital bed.  Time allows more care and buys time for therapeutic treatment and vaccine.  Also if we ever get control of this thing you can test and contact trace outbreaks.  Finally I am convinced normal is not coming until there is a vaccine.  There are multiple countries that are seeing cases pop back up like Singapore and Hong Kong. 

I agree that we won't be fully back to normal for a year+ as we wait for a vaccine. Our chance to make it less than that has now past.

Based on some potential antibody based therapies, I'm optimistic we might be able to get to some semblance of normal by mid to late fall. The problem with this is, people would still be getting sick and some dying. We would just have a potential treatment to lessen the impact enough to possibly warrant opening a lot of things back up.

Let's also all hope that things do indeed calm down some in summer. Otherwise this is going to be a long and catastrophic process (more catastrophic than it already is).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 04, 2020, 07:14:18 PM

When did we - as a nation - stop listening to experts within their respective fields? And why?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on April 04, 2020, 07:18:31 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 04, 2020, 07:14:18 PM

When did we - as a nation - stop listening to experts within their respective fields? And why?

About 3.5 years ago.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 04, 2020, 07:27:05 PM

New York Gets Ventilators From China; Trump Wants More Thanks

https://apnews.com/24b8b30cbc11c43a19e7e7aff69e4044

Just the headline says a lot: people are dying, and Trump is focused on a perceived lack of praise. And before anyone screams “fake news,” note that this is a story from AP, which is widely viewed as an unbiased news source.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Eldon on April 04, 2020, 07:28:22 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 04, 2020, 07:14:18 PM

When did we - as a nation - stop listening to experts within their respective fields? And why?

The simplistic answer is the advent of social media--quacks and charlatans now have an outlet.

The nuanced answer is that intra-discipline debates can be more widely seen, again a result of the internet. 

Expert A says X, Expert B says not X (or at least, says Y, which is interpreted through people's confirmation bias as "not X"). 

Prior to the internet, this war was waged in academic journals, etc.  But now, with a 24-news cycle having to compete with the always-running internet, expert battles are waged in public.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Eldon on April 04, 2020, 07:32:56 PM

Quote from: wadesworld on April 04, 2020, 07:18:31 PM

About 3.5 years ago.

You have cause and effect reversed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 04, 2020, 07:46:39 PM

Quote from: Eldon on April 04, 2020, 07:28:22 PM

The simplistic answer is the advent of social media--quacks and charlatans now have an outlet.

The nuanced answer is that intra-discipline debates can be more widely seen, again a result of the internet. 

Expert A says X, Expert B says not X (or at least, says Y, which is interpreted through people's confirmation bias as "not X"). 

Prior to the internet, this war was waged in academic journals, etc.  But now, with a 24-news cycle having to compete with the always-running internet, expert battles are waged in public.

Good analysis. It is stunning how fast disinformation is distributed and taken as gospel.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 04, 2020, 07:48:16 PM

Quote from: Eldon on April 04, 2020, 07:32:56 PM

You have cause and effect reversed.

You are correct that there was divisiveness and skepticism before Trump. But his constant chants of “fake news” in response to anyone who didn’t praise him has raised it to a completely new level.

Usually, a national crisis causes at least a temporary pause in partisanship (see 9/11), but Trump’s stubborn refusal to admit that others know better than he does, combined with his divisive rhetoric, isn’t allowing that to happen.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 04, 2020, 08:22:21 PM

Another data driven article.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-race-for-beds-ventilators-how-u-s-hospitals-are-bracing-for-a-surge-in-coronavirus-patients-11585832401?mod=e2fb&fbclid=IwAR2VS0_oiU4nTdG6KTdwCdJl7wgatjAzoFM6i4HPHOTwj5LoUNnE8Pa80Ek (https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-race-for-beds-ventilators-how-u-s-hospitals-are-bracing-for-a-surge-in-coronavirus-patients-11585832401?mod=e2fb&fbclid=IwAR2VS0_oiU4nTdG6KTdwCdJl7wgatjAzoFM6i4HPHOTwj5LoUNnE8Pa80Ek)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on April 04, 2020, 08:46:21 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 04, 2020, 07:48:16 PM

You are correct that there was divisiveness and skepticism before Trump. But his constant chants of “fake news” in response to anyone who didn’t praise him has raised it to a completely new level.

Usually, a national crisis causes at least a temporary pause in partisanship (see 9/11), but Trump’s stubborn refusal to admit that others know better than he does, combined with his divisive rhetoric, isn’t allowing that to happen.

Use of the term ‘fake news’ should be a felony, as it’s merely a crutch for the stupid.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 04, 2020, 09:10:20 PM

Quote from: Retire0 on April 04, 2020, 08:46:21 PM

Use of the term ‘fake news’ should be a felony, as it’s merely a crutch for the stupid.

Yes, but regrettably many voters don’t recognize that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 04, 2020, 09:38:16 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 04, 2020, 07:48:16 PM

Usually, a national crisis causes at least a temporary pause in partisanship (see 9/11), but Trump’s stubborn refusal to admit that others know better than he does, combined with his divisive rhetoric, isn’t allowing that to happen.

After reading hundreds of even handed, straight down the middle posts on Scoop, I sense that you and others here are yearning for the end to partisanship. So sad that Donald Trump won’t let you. I love ya, Gooo, but c’mon. Not your fault that the President is lacking in self awareness, but that’s no excuse for losing yours.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 04, 2020, 09:43:20 PM

New York is in dire need of ventilators. China just donated 1,000.

https://www.vox.com/2020/4/4/21208109/china-donates-1000-ventilators-new-york

After Trump couldn’t assure New York the federal government would send ventilators, China sent a supply.

At least some national government is looking out for us.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on April 04, 2020, 09:51:47 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 04, 2020, 07:48:16 PM

You are correct that there was divisiveness and skepticism before Trump. But his constant chants of “fake news” in response to anyone who didn’t praise him has raised it to a completely new level.

Usually, a national crisis causes at least a temporary pause in partisanship (see 9/11), but Trump’s stubborn refusal to admit that others know better than he does, combined with his divisive rhetoric, isn’t allowing that to happen.

Come on goooo, you are a smart guy and have lended some good stuff here, but this is at best, cherry picked.  The thing is, the real partisanship is from those who are fighting to be relevant and want to be back in power.  No one knows exactly what or how the “right” way to act here, but regardless of what trump says, let me repeat that, regardless, people are like, did you just hear that?  Everyone knows...I mean it is incessant and unfortunately too predictable.

What you are doing is exactly what you are criticizing him for, being partisan during a time when We should be uniting like post 911, which lasted all of about a day and a half btw. 

   Yes, I know he’s the potus and there needs to be some checks and balances, but what we have today is like when Reagan was in office x 1000

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HutchwasClutch on April 04, 2020, 09:54:03 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on April 04, 2020, 09:43:20 PM

New York is in dire need of ventilators. China just donated 1,000.

https://www.vox.com/2020/4/4/21208109/china-donates-1000-ventilators-new-york

After Trump couldn’t assure New York the federal government would send ventilators, China sent a supply.

At least some national government is looking out for us.

It’s quite hilarious to follow the liberal echo chamber here, but wow, will be hard to top praising China for their actions during this world wide pandemic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on April 04, 2020, 10:00:44 PM

“The liberal echo chamber.”

At least liberals can provide a consistent message. We can’t get that from our conservative government. No, I don’t even mean day to day, I mean in the very same briefing.

This change just for change has worked out great. Couldn’t have handled this situation any better. America is great again. Thank God.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 04, 2020, 10:02:47 PM

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on April 04, 2020, 09:54:03 PM

It’s quite hilarious to follow the liberal echo chamber here, but wow, will be hard to top praising China for their actions during this world wide pandemic.

Dude, everyone knows that China f*cked up.

But we knew what was going to happen.  We were warned.  But the people who could have made a difference ignored those warnings.  Now people are dying.

It really is that simple.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 04, 2020, 10:06:26 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on April 04, 2020, 09:43:20 PM

New York is in dire need of ventilators. China just donated 1,000.

https://www.vox.com/2020/4/4/21208109/china-donates-1000-ventilators-new-york

After Trump couldn’t assure New York the federal government would send ventilators, China sent a supply.

At least some national government is looking out for us.
[

They just have unlimited supply or they dont need them anymore?  Maybe we can get there sometime in 2020

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 04, 2020, 10:06:49 PM

Sweden taking a different approach.  Is the PM going for a herd immunity approach?  He suggests that any shutdown cannot be sustained.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-sweden-idUSKBN21L23R

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 04, 2020, 10:09:01 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 04, 2020, 07:48:16 PM

You are correct that there was divisiveness and skepticism before Trump. But his constant chants of “fake news” in response to anyone who didn’t praise him has raised it to a completely new level.

Usually, a national crisis causes at least a temporary pause in partisanship (see 9/11), but Trump’s stubborn refusal to admit that others know better than he does, combined with his divisive rhetoric, isn’t allowing that to happen.

He cannot declare martial law legally.  Plenty of blame at all levels of govt by people of both parties.  What are the solutions without being partisan?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 04, 2020, 11:04:58 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 04, 2020, 10:09:01 PM

He cannot declare martial law legally.  Plenty of blame at all levels of govt by people of both parties.  What are the solutions without being partisan?

lol

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on April 04, 2020, 11:15:00 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 04, 2020, 09:10:20 PM

Yes, but regrettably many voters don’t recognize that.

You got that right, and sadly they are all on one side of the aisle. It amazes me how truly uninformed people are about things..talk to people and they say "well that's what i heard on the news" so they believe it. It's a shame that this country is made up of that many ignorant, uninformed people, but..here we are. Fortunately, we seemingly have just enough intelligent informed voters that we save the other side form major mistakes.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 04, 2020, 11:17:38 PM

Quote from: muguru on April 04, 2020, 11:15:00 PM

You got that right, and sadly they are all on one side of the aisle. It amazes me how truly uninformed people are about things..talk to people and they say "well that's what i heard on the news" so they believe it. It's a shame that this country is made up of that many ignorant, uninformed people, but..here we are. Fortunately, we seemingly have just enough intelligent informed voters that we save the other side form major mistakes.

Yep.  The majority understood the stakes in the last election, but alas...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on April 04, 2020, 11:18:13 PM

I want to believe at least some of you would agree that Cuomo has absolutely made major mistakes which has gotten NY in this mess to begin with...this is just the latest one...I don't get this at all...why would you NOT want to TRY to help your own people?? There is really ZERO to lose.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/sean-hannity-gov-cuomo-stop-denying-new-yorkers-hydroxychloroquine

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 04, 2020, 11:27:05 PM

Quote from: muguru on April 04, 2020, 11:18:13 PM

I want to believe at least some of you would agree that Cuomo has absolutely made major mistakes which has gotten NY in this mess to begin with...this is just the latest one...I don't get this at all...why would you NOT want to TRY to help your own people?? There is really ZERO to lose.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/sean-hannity-gov-cuomo-stop-denying-new-yorkers-hydroxychloroquine

"Just a few days ago Dr. Mehmet Oz was a guest on my show. "

lol.

Anyway, the problem that Cuomo has is that people are hoarding the drug, preventing it from being precribed to people who legitimately need it.  Like those with lupus.  So the limited supply needs to be managed to make sure those who absolutely need the drug can get the drug.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on April 04, 2020, 11:27:42 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 04, 2020, 07:07:01 PM

I agree that we won't be fully back to normal for a year+ as we wait for a vaccine. Our chance to make it less than that has now past.

Based on some potential antibody based therapies, I'm optimistic we might be able to get to some semblance of normal by mid to late fall. The problem with this is, people would still be getting sick and some dying. We would just have a potential treatment to lessen the impact enough to possibly warrant opening a lot of things back up.

Let's also all hope that things do indeed calm down some in summer. Otherwise this is going to be a long and catastrophic process (more catastrophic than it already is).

I'm not saying this to bag on you because I see this thought all over the internet. Look, the reality is at some point fairly soon we HAVE to try to get back to normal...the economy just cannot sustain the way it's going for much longer. Eventually this thing WILL slow down..Sure, it might not be completely gone, but it will get to the point where we can at least handle it to the extent we have enough hospital beds, testing etc. My guess is by the end of Summer SOME things will be back to normal...they simply have to be, no matter what. That's just the reality.

We can't really assume what has happened in China and other countries as what will happen here, the demographics are completely different etc. We, as a country cannot run scared that because China or other countries get a "2nd round", that we have to react the same way they do. There is literally no chance(in my opinion) a second wave wouldn't be nearly as bad as the first..and it could be controlled much better. The absolute last thing we can do is panic the second time around(if it comes), and start this cycle all over again.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 04, 2020, 11:29:37 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 04, 2020, 09:51:47 PM

What you are doing is exactly what you are criticizing him for, being partisan during a time when We should be uniting like post 911, which lasted all of about a day and a half btw. 

Actually, I am doing the opposite of what he is doing. I have been consistent, and have suggested that people follow the recommendations of medical experts (including CDC). And since the virus doesn’t discriminate based on political preference, that advice would help people in both sides of the aisle.

If Trump begins to consistently rely on the experts, without hedging, without begging for adulation, I will be the first to give him credit.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on April 04, 2020, 11:34:49 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 04, 2020, 11:27:05 PM

"Just a few days ago Dr. Mehmet Oz was a guest on my show. "

lol.

Anyway, the problem that Cuomo has is that people are hoarding the drug, preventing it from being precribed to people who legitimately need it.  Like those with lupus. So the limited supply needs to be managed to make sure those who absolutely need the drug can get the drug.

This is a perfect example of not reading something because you don't want facts. Or as your side does, you know the facts but you distort them or simply don't want to believe them because it destroys the agenda's you far left wingers have.


Now, I bolded a part of what you said above...Now please READ below...

Sources tell me that Cuomo has access to MILLIONS of doses of hydroxychloroquine right now. The federal government has tens of millions of doses and has made millions of doses available to the New York governor.

Now I bolded a part of what I pasted...MILLIONS of doses...MILLIONS...Yet you say the supply is limited. If millions is a "limited" supply...well only someone on your side would try to make that believable. Any NORMAL human being would understand Millions is NOT a "limited" supply". he also will not let doctors administer it...talk about killing your own..who's fault is that?? Not the Presidents..it's Cuomo's

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 04, 2020, 11:36:57 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 04, 2020, 09:38:16 PM

After reading hundreds of even handed, straight down the middle posts on Scoop, I sense that you and others here are yearning for the end to partisanship. So sad that Donald Trump won’t let you. I love ya, Gooo, but c’mon. Not your fault that the President is lacking in self awareness, but that’s no excuse for losing yours.

I have no illusions that partisanship can be ended by this crisis. But it would be nice if the guy in charge at least hit “pause” for a few weeks and learned from his mistakes while people are dying in droves.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 04, 2020, 11:42:51 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 04, 2020, 10:09:01 PM

He cannot declare martial law legally.  Plenty of blame at all levels of govt by people of both parties.  What are the solutions without being partisan?

One easy solution - instead of waffling whenever asked about states that haven’t yet implemented stay at home orders - he could strongly and consistently call out every holdout, pointing out that we are all in this together and need to do what the public health experts are recommending. Consistent, unifying, and supported by what scientists currently know about the virus.

If he repeated that mantra sincerely and consistently, we would have the ability to fight the pandemic in a unified way.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 04, 2020, 11:58:23 PM

Quote from: muguru on April 04, 2020, 11:18:13 PM

I want to believe at least some of you would agree that Cuomo has absolutely made major mistakes which has gotten NY in this mess to begin with...this is just the latest one...I don't get this at all...why would you NOT want to TRY to help your own people?? There is really ZERO to lose.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/sean-hannity-gov-cuomo-stop-denying-new-yorkers-hydroxychloroquine

Every leader has made mistakes, but this isn’t one of them.

It is up to individual doctors - not politicians - to decide whether to prescribe off-label use of medications that are approved for other conditions. I suspect most docs aren’t doing this because the scientific data is lacking, but you would have to ask them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on April 05, 2020, 12:00:29 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 04, 2020, 11:42:51 PM

One easy solution - instead of waffling whenever asked about states that haven’t yet implemented stay at home orders - he could strongly and consistently call out every holdout, pointing out that we are all in this together and need to do what the public health experts are recommending. Consistent, unifying, and supported by what scientists currently know about the virus.

If he repeated that mantra sincerely and consistently, we would have the ability to fight the pandemic in a unified way.

In all honesty and sincerity though, in thinking about this for some time now, wouldn't we have been better off to have states with major infections(Like New York), be on lock down like they currently are and the states that don't have so many(like say North Dakota) not be on lock down BUT not allow them to leave the state?? You can control that too, you have "border" patrols. Isn't that in effect a way to control the spread. That way at worst you're containing it to just people in the state and in effect, "slowing the spread"??

I mean don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily have a problem with the "shelter in place orders" as I 100% understand why it needs to be done, but I also think the way I described above would also be effective, wouldn't it??

One thing that is obvious with all of this, and it makes total sense, but the bigger cities are the one's most affected, where there's so many people basically on top of each other and that makes total sense why it would be that way.

For example, the county where i live is rural, and we have had under 20 positive cases here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on April 05, 2020, 12:03:52 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 04, 2020, 11:58:23 PM

Every leader has made mistakes, but this isn’t one of them.

It is up to individual doctors - not politicians - to decide whether to prescribe off-label use of medications that are approved for other conditions. I suspect most docs aren’t doing this because the scientific data is lacking, but you would have to ask them.

But this IS a mistake made by Cuomo...Because of an executive order issued by the Democratic governor, any new prescriptions for hydroxychloroquine must go through the already overrun hospital system. This makes no sense.

And...Doctors DO want to prescribe it...

I live on Long Island and many doctors are telling me that they want to prescribe this medication to their patients who test positive for COVID-19 – the disease caused by the coronavirus – but do NOT need the patient to come to a hospital. However, Cuomo’s executive order forbids pharmacies from filling the prescriptions.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 05, 2020, 12:11:00 AM

Quote from: muguru on April 05, 2020, 12:03:52 AM

But this IS a mistake made by Cuomo...Because of an executive order issued by the Democratic governor, any new prescriptions for hydroxychloroquine must go through the already overrun hospital system. This makes no sense.

And...Doctors DO want to prescribe it...

I live on Long Island and many doctors are telling me that they want to prescribe this medication to their patients who test positive for COVID-19 – the disease caused by the coronavirus – but do NOT need the patient to come to a hospital. However, Cuomo’s executive order forbids pharmacies from filling the prescriptions.

Hospitals have pharmacies too, so Cuomo's order does not forbid it. It simply mandates a more centralized and controllable means of distribution in a time of crisis.

And that centralized and controllable mechanism makes sense, since the drugs have very significant side effects that are currently undergoing further study. https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-03-28/risks-of-using-malaria-drugs-off-label-to-treat-covid-19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 05, 2020, 12:23:17 AM

Quote from: muguru on April 05, 2020, 12:00:29 AM

In all honesty and sincerity though, in thinking about this for some time now, wouldn't we have been better off to have states with major infections(Like New York), be on lock down like they currently are and the states that don't have so many(like say North Dakota) not be on lock down BUT not allow them to leave the state?? You can control that too, you have "border" patrols. Isn't that in effect a way to control the spread. That way at worst you're containing it to just people in the state and in effect, "slowing the spread"??

I mean don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily have a problem with the "shelter in place orders" as I 100% understand why it needs to be done, but I also think the way I described above would also be effective, wouldn't it??

One thing that is obvious with all of this, and it makes total sense, but the bigger cities are the one's most affected, where there's so many people basically on top of each other and that makes total sense why it would be that way.

For example, the county where i live is rural, and we have had under 20 positive cases here.

Looking at raw numbers is misleading. IA, AR, ND and SD actually have more cases per capita than states like KY, WV and MN (which have stay at home orders). So people in those states are living under a false sense of security if they think they are “safe” to go out. Likewise for rural areas. The highest per capita rate here in MN is a rural county with only 32 cases. Sounds pretty innocuous, but it’s actually a lot for a small rural county.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 05, 2020, 12:26:06 AM

Quote from: muguru on April 04, 2020, 11:39:40 PM

Your right, and fortunately there's just enough people that aren't complete idiots that we SAVED this country from being run by someone who would have absolutely been the worst President we have ever had by a wide margin, and that's saying something since we have had Carter and Obama. Then again, you probably thought she was an outstanding candidate. MY GOD

Maybe if you can ever get over your far left wing agenda, you'd be able to understand that.

You truly are a fool. Flooding this thread with post after post only verified it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 05, 2020, 12:32:32 AM

Quote from: muguru on April 05, 2020, 12:03:52 AM

But this IS a mistake made by Cuomo...Because of an executive order issued by the Democratic governor, any new prescriptions for hydroxychloroquine must go through the already overrun hospital system. This makes no sense.

And...Doctors DO want to prescribe it...

I live on Long Island and many doctors are telling me that they want to prescribe this medication to their patients who test positive for COVID-19 – the disease caused by the coronavirus – but do NOT need the patient to come to a hospital. However, Cuomo’s executive order forbids pharmacies from filling the prescriptions.

Your quote was pulled from a Sean Hannity article with zero sources.

Please find me information that supports the assertion that MDs in the field WANT to give this medication to low-risk/non-hospitalized patients.

Why do you find it hard to listen to/follow the advice of experts within the field of infectious disease/epidemiology/etc when it comes to a pandemic?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 05, 2020, 12:43:07 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 04, 2020, 09:51:47 PM

What you are doing is exactly what you are criticizing him for, being partisan during a time when We should be uniting like post 911, which lasted all of about a day and a half btw. 

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 04, 2020, 09:38:16 PM

After reading hundreds of even handed, straight down the middle posts on Scoop, I sense that you and others here are yearning for the end to partisanship. So sad that Donald Trump won’t let you. I love ya, Gooo, but c’mon. Not your fault that the President is lacking in self awareness, but that’s no excuse for losing yours.

And I love you, Lenny and rocket.

But the difference here, of course, is that Goooooooo and the rest of us, regardless of ideology, are a bunch of anonymous interwebs mopes ... while the other guy is the most powerful man in the world.

What Gooooo and Lenny and rocket and I say means bupkis ... what the most powerful man in the world says means everything. If any of us "lack self awareness," shrug; if the most powerful man in the world does, it matters.

So when guru goes on one of his barely intelligible, hyper-partisan, my-side-is-right-and-everybody-else-is-wrong rants, who cares? But when the president of the United States says that Democratic governors have to "appreciate" him more if they want the U.S. citizens who live in their states to have access to life-saving equipment; or when he blames the opposition party for things that he actually had control of; or when he calls everybody who disagrees with him the "enemy," I think it matters a little bit more.

And I like to think you do, too.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on April 05, 2020, 12:58:18 AM

Quote from: muguru on April 04, 2020, 11:39:40 PM

Your right, and fortunately there's just enough people that aren't complete idiots that we SAVED this country from being run by someone who would have absolutely been the worst President we have ever had by a wide margin, and that's saying something since we have had Carter and Obama. Then again, you probably thought she was an outstanding candidate. MY GOD

Maybe if you can ever get over your far left wing agenda, you'd be able to understand that.

There are 10s of thousands of deaths on the hands of this administration that could’ve been prevented if we had even remote competence currently leading the country. And our economy is heading to places worse than it was during the Great Depression. Hard to do worse than that.

I remember when other countries looked to America for leadership in times of crisis. What country in their right mind would turn to the United States of America for help in fighting what the world is going through right now? Truly Making America Great Again.

But hey at least when the weather warms up this whole covid thing will miraculously disappear, the cases in America will be at nearly zero, and our country will be back open for business by next Sunday.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 05, 2020, 01:09:34 AM

Quote from: MU82 on April 05, 2020, 12:43:07 AM

So when guru goes on one of his barely intelligible, hyper-partisan, my-side-is-right-and-everybody-else-is-wrong rants, who cares? But when the president of the United States says that Democratic governors have to "appreciate" him more if they want the U.S. citizens who live in their states to have access to life-saving equipment; or when he blames the opposition party for things that he actually had control of; or when he calls everybody who disagrees with him the "enemy," I think it matters a little bit more.

Do you and your mod-deleted posts next.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 05, 2020, 05:07:04 AM

nm

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 05, 2020, 05:07:49 AM

Nm.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Archies Bat on April 05, 2020, 05:49:53 AM

Guys:

Since the inception of this thread, I estimate 90% of the posts have been good information or discourse on options, 8% non-partisan criticism of various actions or recommended actions, and 2% partisan.

That has flipped in the last 12 hours.

Let's start out Palm Sunday by getting back to where this thread started.

And for MU82, let's start out National Deep Dish Pizza Day by getting back to where this thread started.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 05, 2020, 06:39:29 AM

Facts/data about Italy.  Our executive branch says we are on their path.

 https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/05/world/europe/italy-coronavirus-lockdown-reopen.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&fbclid=IwAR3GjRm0NCx58ORldByp3gJYL856R1uUJ9qNRMuj3ceQTJiPCLVgCfp_Tiw (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/05/world/europe/italy-coronavirus-lockdown-reopen.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&fbclid=IwAR3GjRm0NCx58ORldByp3gJYL856R1uUJ9qNRMuj3ceQTJiPCLVgCfp_Tiw)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 05, 2020, 06:53:56 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 04, 2020, 10:06:49 PM

Sweden taking a different approach.  Is the PM going for a herd immunity approach?  He suggests that any shutdown cannot be sustained.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-sweden-idUSKBN21L23R

Sweden is rethinking their strategy.  Sounds like UK 3 weeks ago

 https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-04/sweden-girds-for-thousands-of-deaths-amid-laxer-virus-response (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-04/sweden-girds-for-thousands-of-deaths-amid-laxer-virus-response)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 05, 2020, 08:05:45 AM

This was an interesting summary of the therapies currently in trial. 

 https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/03/who-launches-global-megatrial-four-most-promising-coronavirus-treatments (https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/03/who-launches-global-megatrial-four-most-promising-coronavirus-treatments)

Also positive news on supply for one of the treatments. 

 https://thehill.com/homenews/491204-us-biotech-firm-donating-15-million-doses-of-experimental-coronavirus-drug?fbclid=IwAR3RfYv-bI_7dH6PxBy61RApWtRbbciu4kUg3Avp838Y6bNYMXXJCDinvS8 (https://thehill.com/homenews/491204-us-biotech-firm-donating-15-million-doses-of-experimental-coronavirus-drug?fbclid=IwAR3RfYv-bI_7dH6PxBy61RApWtRbbciu4kUg3Avp838Y6bNYMXXJCDinvS8)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 05, 2020, 08:36:37 AM

Quote from: muguru on April 05, 2020, 12:00:29 AM

In all honesty and sincerity though, in thinking about this for some time now, wouldn't we have been better off to have states with major infections(Like New York), be on lock down like they currently are and the states that don't have so many(like say North Dakota) not be on lock down BUT not allow them to leave the state?? You can control that too, you have "border" patrols. Isn't that in effect a way to control the spread. That way at worst you're containing it to just people in the state and in effect, "slowing the spread"??

I mean don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily have a problem with the "shelter in place orders" as I 100% understand why it needs to be done, but I also think the way I described above would also be effective, wouldn't it??

It would be effective, but incredibly difficult to enforce.  Furthermore, the essential parts of our economy that have to keep running during this time have to cross state lines.  For example, Wisconsin "exports" dairy products to other states.  That has to be done by truck.

I was talking to someone months ago about the gasoline distribution business.  He told me that supplying the daily gasoline needs for the state requires contant shipping and trucking from refineries located elsewhere.

State borders have never been meant to be treated like national borders.

And if you look at the article that Frenns linked above, you can see why partial shutdowns just don't work.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 05, 2020, 08:45:10 AM

Quote from: muguru on April 04, 2020, 11:18:13 PM

I don't get this at all...why would you NOT want to TRY to help your own people?? There is really ZERO to lose.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/sean-hannity-gov-cuomo-stop-denying-new-yorkers-hydroxychloroquine

Says the guy who thinks we should pump unproven vaccines into billions of people...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 05, 2020, 08:46:51 AM

Quote from: muguru on April 04, 2020, 11:15:00 PM

It amazes me how truly uninformed people are about things..talk to people and they say "well that's what i heard on the news" so they believe it.

Says the guy who posts fox news link after fox news link...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on April 05, 2020, 09:16:52 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 05, 2020, 08:45:10 AM

Says the guy who thinks we should pump unproven vaccines into billions of people...

If you or a loved one has little to no chance of survival from Covid-19, but this COULD possibly save your life...you're not going to take it?? I call BS if you say you wouldn't. I'm not talking about giving this to people with mild symptoms. I'm talking about giving this to people who's outcomes are otherwise grim. At that point, what is there to lose??

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on April 05, 2020, 09:18:40 AM

This thread has went sideways in a lot of ways, but at the very least, can we stop calling the stimulus a “corporate” bailout. 25% of the funds were directed to large corporations at a max.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on April 05, 2020, 09:19:45 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 05, 2020, 08:36:37 AM

It would be effective, but incredibly difficult to enforce. Furthermore, the essential parts of our economy that have to keep running during this time have to cross state lines.  For example, Wisconsin "exports" dairy products to other states.  That has to be done by truck.

I was talking to someone months ago about the gasoline distribution business.  He told me that supplying the daily gasoline needs for the state requires contant shipping and trucking from refineries located elsewhere.

State borders have never been meant to be treated like national borders.

And if you look at the article that Frenns linked above, you can see why partial shutdowns just don't work.

No I understand this part of it, and that has to happen(I mean we do it now)...obviously essential workers like that could leave the state. I'm talking about keeping your average Joe from just taking an unnecessary trip into another state for no real reason other than "just because".

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on April 05, 2020, 09:21:53 AM

Do you want this thread to be locked?

Because this is how you get threads locked.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 05, 2020, 09:23:22 AM

Quote from: Archies Bat on April 05, 2020, 05:49:53 AM

Guys:

Since the inception of this thread, I estimate 90% of the posts have been good information or discourse on options, 8% non-partisan criticism of various actions or recommended actions, and 2% partisan.

That has flipped in the last 12 hours.

Let's start out Palm Sunday by getting back to where this thread started.

And for MU82, let's start out National Deep Dish Pizza Day by getting back to where this thread started.

I wish I could have a good deep dish pizza. Here in Charlotte, it's mostly a pizza wasteland, and certainly devoid of deep dish pizza.

I gave myself a 4-day timeout from this thread. I returned last night to see multiple ultra-partisan, hate-filled, screaming rants by one Scooper -- worse posts than anything I had seen from Scoopers on either side of the aisle in a long, long time.

I agree with you that we should discuss the topic at hand. Here in NC, it's just getting exponentially worse and worse. Every day, more sickness and death than the day before.

It's also getting worse in our neighboring state, Georgia, but the governor there just signed an executive order RE-opening the state's beaches. He did so against the wishes of the mayors of several beach-side towns. This is the same guy who didn't know until a few days ago that asymptomatic people could transmit COVID-19. Ignorance is bliss ... as long as you don't mind people dying.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on April 05, 2020, 09:38:18 AM

Quote from: MU82 on April 05, 2020, 09:23:22 AM

I wish I could have a good deep dish pizza. Here in Charlotte, it's mostly a pizza wasteland, and certainly devoid of deep dish pizza.
...

Go to the America's Test Kitchen recipe for deep dish or Chicago style pizza. Fantastic. Pretty dang easy (but a little time consuming).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 05, 2020, 10:02:34 AM

Quote from: muguru on April 05, 2020, 09:16:52 AM

If you or a loved one has little to no chance of survival from Covid-19, but this COULD possibly save your life...you're not going to take it?? I call BS if you say you wouldn't. I'm not talking about giving this to people with mild symptoms. I'm talking about giving this to people who's outcomes are otherwise grim. At that point, what is there to lose??

With all due respect, last night you complained because NY docs could prescribe the drug only through a hospital pharmacy. But if you really are only "talking about giving this to people who's [sic] outcomes are otherwise grim", then the NY Gov's order gives you exactly what you want...because those patients will be the exact ones who are already in the hospital.

Glad we came to the point of solving your concern simply through a closer examination of what you want, and what Cuomo did.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 05, 2020, 10:26:20 AM

This is why it is a bad idea.

Efforts to treat COVID-19 lead to drug shortage for lupus, rheumatoid arthritis patients
https://kutv.com/news/coronavirus/efforts-to-treat-covid-19-leads-to-drug-shortage-for-lupus-rheumatoid-arthritis-patients

A drug being studied in the treatment of coronavirus is causing a drug shortage for patients with lupus and rheumatoid arthritis.

The drug in question is Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 05, 2020, 10:45:36 AM

Quote from: muguru on April 05, 2020, 12:03:52 AM

But this IS a mistake made by Cuomo...Because of an executive order issued by the Democratic governor, any new prescriptions for hydroxychloroquine must go through the already overrun hospital system. This makes no sense.

And...Doctors DO want to prescribe it...

I live on Long Island and many doctors are telling me that they want to prescribe this medication to their patients who test positive for COVID-19 – the disease caused by the coronavirus – but do NOT need the patient to come to a hospital. However, Cuomo’s executive order forbids pharmacies from filling the prescriptions.

It was not a mistake for multiple reasons. The mistake was Trump touting this as a miracle cure. I enumerate several of the reasons below.

1. Immediately after Trump announced this, there was rampant illegal hoarding of the medication by doctors. That led to shortages for those that need this for severe illnesses.

2. Even if we only treated those with severe symptoms in NY, it would require well over 1M dosages in NYC alone right now. That doesn't take into the consideration all the cases coming in the next month. Nor does it take into consideration those that need this medication for other purposes. There will be shortages, and there is zero evidence of this having a prophylactic effect. Also, doctor's are diagnosing COVID based on "symptoms" and not positive tests. That would lead to 5-10x as many people being prescribed the medication than necessary.

So if we are going to start giving it to people as a prophylactic, they need a minimum of 200M dosages. And since it is being used as a prophylactic, and not only when there are severe symptoms, that number (longer duration) is like 1B+.

3. The medication, particularly in combination with azithromycin, can cause severe heart issues. It is recommended that patients cardiac function be monitored continuously, and they undergo an EKG at least every 2-days. This cannot be done at home, and is much higher risk than mild symptoms from COVID-19.

4. Administering these medication could have deleterious effects in general, and may complicate other treatment options if their condition worsens. The half-life of these drugs is on the order of 1-month. That means you can't just cease taking it, and the medication is gone 1-2 days later.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 05, 2020, 11:29:16 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on April 05, 2020, 10:26:20 AM

This is why it is a bad idea.

Efforts to treat COVID-19 lead to drug shortage for lupus, rheumatoid arthritis patients
https://kutv.com/news/coronavirus/efforts-to-treat-covid-19-leads-to-drug-shortage-for-lupus-rheumatoid-arthritis-patients

A drug being studied in the treatment of coronavirus is causing a drug shortage for patients with lupus and rheumatoid arthritis.

The drug in question is Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ).

6000 doctors globally surveyed about the pandemic.  Answers are eye-opening.  The most effective treatment response doctors have seen is HCQ.

The questions are good and the responses insightful.  Is your government ready and helpful?  PPE availability.  Treatment options. 

https://public-cdn.sermo.com/covid19/c8/be4e/4edbd4/dbd4ba4ac5a3b3d9a479f99cc5/wave-i-sermo-covid-19-global-analysis-final.pdf

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 05, 2020, 11:33:12 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 05, 2020, 11:29:16 AM

6000 doctors globally surveyed about the pandemic.  Answers are eye-opening.  The most effective treatment response doctors have seen is HCQ.

The questions are good and the responses insightful.  Is your government ready and helpful?  PPE availability.  Treatment options. 

https://public-cdn.sermo.com/covid19/c8/be4e/4edbd4/dbd4ba4ac5a3b3d9a479f99cc5/wave-i-sermo-covid-19-global-analysis-final.pdf

There have been two published trials with a control group. One saw no benefit at all. The other saw a minor benefit, but didn't have enough patients to know if it would be actually statistically significant.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 05, 2020, 11:39:50 AM

Quote from: wadesworld on April 05, 2020, 12:58:18 AM

There are 10s of thousands of deaths on the hands of this administration that could’ve been prevented if we had even remote competence currently leading the country. And our economy is heading to places worse than it was during the Great Depression. Hard to do worse than that.

First, Trump and his minions (in your view) haven’t killed “10s of thousands” since the current death toll is 8,486. But (sadly) 10 of thousands will surely eventually perish.

You evidently believe that both the loss of life AND the economy grinding to a halt in an effort to mitigate that loss of life were avoidable. Why you haven’t shared your plan to simultaneously prevent any deaths and continue our economic boom is a mystery. But better late than never. Let’s hear it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 05, 2020, 11:40:58 AM

Quote from: wadesworld on April 05, 2020, 12:58:18 AM

There are 10s of thousands of deaths on the hands of this administration that could’ve been prevented if we had even remote competence currently leading the country. And our economy is heading to places worse than it was during the Great Depression. Hard to do worse than that.

I remember when other countries looked to America for leadership in times of crisis. What country in their right mind would turn to the United States of America for help in fighting what the world is going through right now? Truly Making America Great Again.

But hey at least when the weather warms up this whole covid thing will miraculously disappear, the cases in America will be at nearly zero, and our country will be back open for business by next Sunday.

Do you believe in an election year someone else would not have been hesitant to shut down the economy?  The guy at the top has made some extremely poor comments and decisions, but he has also made some good ones that were criticized (banning travel).

If the administration has 10000 deaths on its hands and most of the deaths are coming from New York where those leaders made poor comments and decisions are they absolved? 

This is a state vs federal constitutional issue.  The Federal gov't cannot force martial law or shelter in place based on what I have read.  The feds can make recommendations, but the states have to decide for their citizens what is appropriate.  Any order by the feds is symbolic with no enforceable nature.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/488735-could-trump-declare-national-coronavirus-shutdown-momentum-is-rising

Legal experts say Trump cannot order a shelter in place.  Spain, Italy, France have different constitutions that allow their leaders to do that.  We do not.  Wanting to do something and having the legal ability to do so are two different things.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/03/30/coronavirus-stay-home-shelter-in-place-orders-by-state/5092413002/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 05, 2020, 11:45:15 AM

Quote from: forgetful on April 05, 2020, 11:33:12 AM

There have been two published trials with a control group. One saw no benefit at all. The other saw a minor benefit, but didn't have enough patients to know if it would be actually statistically significant.

Doctors in the field appear to be seeing some benefit based on their answers.  Maybe it is a placebo effect, but that is their response in a broad, global-based questionnaire.  What did you think of the other questions and answers in the document?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 05, 2020, 11:46:50 AM

Quote from: muguru on April 05, 2020, 09:16:52 AM

If you or a loved one has little to no chance of survival from Covid-19, but this COULD possibly save your life...you're not going to take it?? I call BS if you say you wouldn't. I'm not talking about giving this to people with mild symptoms. I'm talking about giving this to people who's outcomes are otherwise grim. At that point, what is there to lose??

Which situation has nothing to do with your earlier statement

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 05, 2020, 11:54:09 AM

I said this two years ago here, there is no room for moderates.  The hyper-partisans (who think they are moderate by the way) have made this country into what it is now. No difference in these message responses. There is no room for moderates which is unfortunate.

Entirely predictable.  Same people, too.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 05, 2020, 11:56:09 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 05, 2020, 11:54:09 AM

I said this two years ago here, there is no room for moderates.  The hyper-partisans (who think they are moderate by the way) have made this country into what it is now. No difference in these message responses. There is no room for moderates which is unfortunate.

Entirely predictable.  Same people, too.

Classic combination of right wing nationalist nazi and left wing socialist libtard response

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on April 05, 2020, 11:57:18 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 05, 2020, 11:39:50 AM

First, Trump and his minions (in your view) haven’t killed “10s of thousands” since the current death toll is 8,486. But (sadly) 10 of thousands will surely eventually perish.

You evidently believe that both the loss of life AND the economy grinding to a halt in an effort to mitigate that loss of life were avoidable. Why you haven’t shared your plan to simultaneously prevent any deaths and continue our economic boom is a mystery. But better late than never. Let’s hear it.

Avoidable? No. Who said that?

I’m glad people think that, even though we were watching this play out in foreign countries for months before we got hit by the coronavirus, the country that was best equipped to handle a pandemic is going to be the hardest hit country in the world by this.

I’m sure nothing any administration could’ve done could’ve changed the trajectory of this pandemic in the USA.  ::)

It’s honestly terrifying people think the administration hasn’t failed at every possible step of this thing.

But we’re good. Donald and Jerad have control of this. As promised, everyone who wants a test has one, our cases are down to nearly 0 by April, and as the weather has warmed up this thing has just gone away, like a miracle, and as a result America will be back open for business a week from today. We’ve nailed this response.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on April 05, 2020, 12:00:39 PM

Apologies if this has already been posted elsewhere

https://twitter.com/WLNSAlexSims/status/1246479343087497217?s=20

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on April 05, 2020, 12:04:04 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 05, 2020, 11:40:58 AM

Do you believe in an election year someone else would not have been hesitant to shut down the economy?  The guy at the top has made some extremely poor comments and decisions, but he has also made some good ones that were criticized (banning travel).

If the administration has 10000 deaths on its hands and most of the deaths are coming from New York where those leaders made poor comments and decisions are they absolved? 

This is a state vs federal constitutional issue.  The Federal gov't cannot force martial law or shelter in place based on what I have read.  The feds can make recommendations, but the states have to decide for their citizens what is appropriate.  Any order by the feds is symbolic with no enforceable nature.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/488735-could-trump-declare-national-coronavirus-shutdown-momentum-is-rising

Legal experts say Trump cannot order a shelter in place.  Spain, Italy, France have different constitutions that allow their leaders to do that.  We do not.  Wanting to do something and having the legal ability to do so are two different things.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/03/30/coronavirus-stay-home-shelter-in-place-orders-by-state/5092413002/

I’d say therein lies the problem, that we have a “leader” who’s more concerned about a re-election than the health and well being of the people of the country. But the reality is it has nothing to do with being an election year and everything to do with his ego. Year 1 or year for of his term, it doesn’t matter. Don’t listen to the experts in place, fire them if it would at all ding your reputation, and worry about the deaths you’ll be dealing with when they’re mounting rather than doing your best ahead of time so they’re limited.

Reacting at every step rather than being proactive. Always the sign of a good “leader.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 05, 2020, 12:06:06 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 05, 2020, 11:39:50 AM

First, Trump and his minions (in your view) haven’t killed “10s of thousands” since the current death toll is 8,486. But (sadly) 10 of thousands will surely eventually perish.

You evidently believe that both the loss of life AND the economy grinding to a halt in an effort to mitigate that loss of life were avoidable. Why you haven’t shared your plan to simultaneously prevent any deaths and continue our economic boom is a mystery. But better late than never. Let’s hear it.

It would be impossible to prevent all deaths from this, just as it would impossible to prevent all economic hardship. But certainly a more proactive approach initiated much earlier on a national scale could have spared a fair amount of both.
Look no further than Germany or South Korea.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on April 05, 2020, 12:07:32 PM

Quote from: wadesworld on April 05, 2020, 11:57:18 AM

Avoidable? No. Who said that?

I’m glad people think that, even though we were watching this play out in foreign countries for months before we got hit by the coronavirus, the country that was best equipped to handle a pandemic is going to be the hardest hit country in the world by this.

I’m sure nothing any administration could’ve done could’ve changed the trajectory of this pandemic in the USA.  ::)

It’s honestly terrifying people think the administration hasn’t failed at every possible step of this thing.

But we’re good. Donald and Jerad have control of this. As promised, everyone who wants a test has one, our cases are down to nearly 0 by April, and as the weather has warmed up this thing has just gone away, like a miracle, and as a result America will be back open for business a week from today. We’ve nailed this response.

I hate to rain on your parade and your agenda...somehow you will spin this, or just deny it, I'm sure..

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/public_approval_of_president_trumps_handling_of_the_coronavirus-7088.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 05, 2020, 12:08:10 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 05, 2020, 11:45:15 AM

Doctors in the field appear to be seeing some benefit based on their answers.  Maybe it is a placebo effect, but that is their response in a broad, global-based questionnaire.  What did you think of the other questions and answers in the document?

Doctors in the field making a claim without a control is largely meaningless. Also, 51% think doing nothing is better than any other treatment, so if you do want to accept uncontrolled data, the data says do nothing.

The rest of the questions largely reflect what everyone else is saying. We are grossly failing on testing and providing medical care providers with the basic necessities.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Archies Bat on April 05, 2020, 12:09:28 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 05, 2020, 09:21:53 AM

Do you want this thread to be locked?

Because this is how you get threads locked.

IBTL.

Thanks all.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 05, 2020, 12:12:10 PM

Quote from: muguru on April 05, 2020, 12:07:32 PM

I hate to rain on your parade and your agenda...somehow you will spin this, or just deny it, I'm sure..

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/public_approval_of_president_trumps_handling_of_the_coronavirus-7088.html

You just made his point. 

Because it's very clear his administration handled very poorly at the beginning, and is still playing catch up and getting diverted today.  It obviously isn't entirely his fault.  China was too secretive for too long.  And the CDC screwed things up at certain points as well.

But the obvious and clear fact is that we lost a lot of time because his administration ignored warnings.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 05, 2020, 12:15:21 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on April 05, 2020, 11:56:09 AM

Classic combination of right wing nationalist nazi and left wing socialist libtard response

I laughed. And we all need a few of those these days.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 05, 2020, 12:19:26 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 05, 2020, 11:40:58 AM

Do you believe in an election year someone else would not have been hesitant to shut down the economy?  The guy at the top has made some extremely poor comments and decisions, but he has also made some good ones that were criticized (banning travel

The travel restrictions, the effectiveness of which is far from certain, came way too late anyhow.
Could you provide some links - reputable, please, not random people ranting on Reddit or Facebook - that were critical of the travel ban?
I know they're out there ... just curious if you know what the criticism was about.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 05, 2020, 12:21:50 PM

Quote from: muguru on April 05, 2020, 12:07:32 PM

I hate to rain on your parade and your agenda...somehow you will spin this, or just deny it, I'm sure..

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/public_approval_of_president_trumps_handling_of_the_coronavirus-7088.html

The most recent poll shows the majority of Americans disapprove of Trump's handling of the crisis.
Hooray?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 05, 2020, 12:28:06 PM

Are we supposed to be anti-drug companies still during this time, or are we relaxing our disdain for them? 

I have never understood this position.  The best, brightest should be working at drug companies to develop new drugs for humanity. That comes with great cost in research and compensation, but we have done a good job of attacking that industry.  If you want good quality outcomes you need to pay the price.  The source of funding for research is the sale of the products.  It is unfortunate, but a necessary evil in a capitalist country.  It is my sincere hope that these companies can find a vaccine or other drugs that work to combat this crisis.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on April 05, 2020, 12:31:23 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 05, 2020, 12:28:06 PM

Are we supposed to be anti-drug companies still during this time, or are we relaxing our disdain for them? 

I have never understood this position.  The best, brightest should be working at drug companies to develop new drugs for humanity. That comes with great cost in research and compensation, but we have done a good job of attacking that industry.  If you want good quality outcomes you need to pay the price.  The source of funding for research is the sale of the products.  It is unfortunate, but a necessary evil in a capitalist country.  It is my sincere hope that these companies can find a vaccine or other drugs that work to combat this crisis.

Yay for a 1000 dollar epipen that costs 2 dollars to make? You're wrong here bud, you're wrong.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 05, 2020, 12:36:52 PM

Serious non-partisan government related question.

Congress is at home during one of the largest crises in recent history. From there, they largely are unable to partake in classified briefings. They are unable to vote, and are largely doing nothing during a "recess".

Doctors, nurses, first-responders, are working around the clock. Even bus drivers, fast-food workers, and grocery clerks are working, as they are "essential".

Isn't congress absolutely "essential" at this time. Shouldn't they be in Washington, where they can get access to classified briefings, and come up with strategies to help get through this? If not, what good are they, if when there is an actual emergency, they aren't needed?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 05, 2020, 12:41:35 PM

 Coronavirus Update: @pzf

Great news from New York:
- Number of new cases down
- Number of new deaths down
- Number of new hospitalizations down
- Number of new ICU patients down
- Number of newly discharged patients up

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 05, 2020, 12:49:29 PM

Quote from: muguru on April 05, 2020, 12:07:32 PM

I hate to rain on your parade and your agenda...somehow you will spin this, or just deny it, I'm sure..

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/public_approval_of_president_trumps_handling_of_the_coronavirus-7088.html

Spin unnecessary. The data shown within this Real Clear Politics aggregate polling link doesn't rain on the parades of the people you think it does.

1. If you go to the link you provided and click on All Public Approval of President Trump's Handling of the Coronavirus Polling Data, you will see that he was getting horrible approval ratings for the first 2 weeks of March. In other words, the vast majority of Americans polled disapproved of his handling of the pandemic during the early weeks of his administration's response. That matches precisely what his critics claim.

2. If you look at the entirety of those polls from March 1 to present, you will see that he was getting horrible approval ratings for how he handled the virus early (March 1-14), followed by several polls showing very good ratings when he finally started taking the advice of Fauci and other experts (March 13-25), followed by much lower approval ratings in the last week or so (March 30 to present). The trend appears to no longer be his friend.

3. Compare his current approval rating on this crisis to the much, much higher approval numbers that other presidents received after crises. For example, in the weeks after 9/11, Bush's aggregate approval rating shot up to nearly 90%. Most polling experts and political historians think it is not a good sign for Trump that despite the uptick he has received during this span his aggregate overall job approval rating is still well below 50%.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

4. At this stage of their presidencies, Obama, Bush II, Clinton, Reagan, Nixon, Johnson and Eisenhower all had higher aggregate approval ratings than Trump, and he only surpassed Carter a few days ago.

5. Within the link that you seem to think accurately shows Americans loving Trump, it also shows Biden beating him in the election by nearly 6%.

Stay healthy, guru, and enjoy the rest of your weekend.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 05, 2020, 12:49:46 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 05, 2020, 12:28:06 PM

Are we supposed to be anti-drug companies still during this time, or are we relaxing our disdain for them? 

I have never understood this position.  The best, brightest should be working at drug companies to develop new drugs for humanity. That comes with great cost in research and compensation, but we have done a good job of attacking that industry.  If you want good quality outcomes you need to pay the price.  The source of funding for research is the sale of the products.  It is unfortunate, but a necessary evil in a capitalist country.  It is my sincere hope that these companies can find a vaccine or other drugs that work to combat this crisis.

Lotsa falsehoods here, Cheeks WarriorDad.

Drug company revenues from just their top 20-selling drugs far exceed ALL of their R&D costs. That's just the top 20. Now add in the profits from the 100s of others.
Get the picture?

Facts below:

The most telling data on a disconnect between drug prices and research costs has received almost no public attention. Peter Bach, a researcher at Memorial Sloan Kettering, and his colleagues compared prices of the top 20 best-selling drugs in the United States to the prices in Europe and Canada. They found that the cumulative revenue from the price difference on just these 20 drugs more than covers all the drug research and development costs conducted by the 15 drug companies that make those drugs—and then some.
To be more precise, after accounting for the costs of all research—about $80 billion a year—drug companies had $40 billion more from the top 20 drugs alone, all of which went straight to profits, not research. More excess profit comes from the next 100 or 200 brand-name drugs.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2019/03/drug-prices-high-cost-research-and-development/585253/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on April 05, 2020, 12:51:42 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on April 05, 2020, 12:21:50 PM

The most recent poll shows the majority of Americans disapprove of Trump's handling of the crisis.
Hooray?

Uh...no...don't cherry pick...the top line gives you the average of all the polls.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 05, 2020, 12:57:50 PM

Quote from: muguru on April 05, 2020, 12:51:42 PM

Uh...no...don't cherry pick...the top line gives you the average of all the polls.

Yeah, why rely on the most recent poll from a fast-moving, rapidly evolving situation, when we can equally weigh those from 10 days ago. It's not like much has changed in the past 10 days.
Except almost everything.

Anyhow, historically speaking, Americans tend to rally around their leaders during a crisis.
The first George Bush saw his approval rating soar from 59 percent to 89 percent at the onset of Desert Storm.
The second George Bush's approval ratings spiked in the 90s and held steady in the 80s in the months after 9/11.

What does the fact that Trump can't even top 50 percent tell you?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on April 05, 2020, 12:58:07 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 05, 2020, 12:49:29 PM

Spin unnecessary. The data shown within this Real Clear Politics aggregate polling link doesn't rain on the parades of the people you think it does.

1. If you go to the link you provided and click on All Public Approval of President Trump's Handling of the Coronavirus Polling Data, you will see that he was getting horrible approval ratings for the first 2 weeks of March. In other words, the vast majority of Americans polled disapproved of his handling of the pandemic during the early weeks of his administration's response. That matches precisely what his critics claim.

2. If you look at the entirety of those polls from March 1 to present, you will see that he was getting horrible approval ratings for how he handled the virus early (March 1-14), followed by several polls showing very good ratings when he finally started taking the advice of Fauci and other experts (March 13-25), followed by much lower approval ratings in the last week or so (March 30 to present). The trend appears to no longer be his friend.

3. Compare his current approval rating on this crisis to the much, much higher approval numbers that other presidents received after crises. For example, in the weeks after 9/11, Bush's aggregate approval rating shot up to nearly 90%. Most polling experts and political historians think it is not a good sign for Trump that despite the uptick he has received during this span his aggregate overall job approval rating is still well below 50%.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

4. At this stage of their presidencies, Obama, Bush II, Clinton, Reagan, Nixon, Johnson and Eisenhower all had higher aggregate approval ratings than Trump, and he only surpassed Carter a few days ago.

5. Within the link that you seem to think accurately shows Americans loving Trump, it also shows Biden beating him in the election by nearly 6%.

Stay healthy, guru, and enjoy the rest of your weekend.

I don't know what you are looking at but if you look at the top line...which is all that matters(average of all polls), more APPROVE than disapprove of his handling of the corona virus.

But I'm done here...I just try to balance this thread out some because it's clear where most posters fall. You stay safe and healthy yourself

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on April 05, 2020, 01:00:12 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on April 05, 2020, 12:57:50 PM

Yeah, why rely on the most recent poll from a fast-moving, rapidly evolving situation, when we can equally weigh those from 10 days ago. It's not like much has changed in the past 10 days.
Except almost everything.

Anyhow, historically speaking, Americans tend to rally around their leaders during a crisis.
The first George Bush saw his approval rating soar from 59 percent to 89 percent at the onset of Desert Storm.
The second George Bush's approval ratings spiked in the 90s and held steady in the 80s in the months after 9/11.

What does the fact that Trump can't even top 50 percent tell you?

It tells me that it's about 49% higher then I would have(and I would hope most americans would have) on the other person that could be in office right now "handing" this. My god I shudder to think where we'd be.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 05, 2020, 01:02:38 PM

Those bickering with guru, and guru.  Please stop.  If you've got new Covid-19 information to share - please do.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 05, 2020, 01:46:06 PM

Wisconsin legislature asking Evers to open all churches for Easter services. These are the same people demanding that the polls be open on Tuesday.

I think this is the reason things turn so partisan. One side is asking for people to gather in large crowds during a crisis.  The other side is appalled at the idea.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 05, 2020, 01:52:47 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on April 05, 2020, 12:41:35 PM

Coronavirus Update: @pzf

Great news from New York:
- Number of new cases down
- Number of new deaths down
- Number of new hospitalizations down
- Number of new ICU patients down
- Number of newly discharged patients up

That all sounds very encouraging. If NY has indeed turned some kind of corner, that obviously would be huge.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 05, 2020, 01:53:28 PM

Interesting side effect:
https://futurism.com/the-byte/earth-standing-still-pandemic

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 05, 2020, 02:24:21 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 05, 2020, 01:53:28 PM

Interesting side effect:
https://futurism.com/the-byte/earth-standing-still-pandemic

That's really cool. I wouldn't have thought we had that much effect on the earth's movement. Neat.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 05, 2020, 02:45:42 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 05, 2020, 01:53:28 PM

Interesting side effect:
https://futurism.com/the-byte/earth-standing-still-pandemic

Maybe we need to set a time for every Scooper to jump up and down (at a safe distance from others, of course) to get things going again.

Who's with me?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 05, 2020, 02:53:40 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 05, 2020, 01:46:06 PM

Wisconsin legislature asking Evers to open all churches for Easter services. These are the same people demanding that the polls be open on Tuesday.

I think this is the reason things turn so partisan. One side is asking for people to gather in large crowds during a crisis.  The other side is appalled at the idea.

So the Pope is OK having Palm Sunday, Holy Thursday and Easter Sunday mass in an empty St. Peter's Basilica (and encouraging people to watch virtually), but the good legislators of Wisconsin have decided that isn't good enough?

Brilliant. Have people stay at home six days, only to waste the isolation by gathering in crowded churches on the seventh.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/virus-alters-holy-week-celebration-worldwide-spirit-69978753

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 05, 2020, 03:06:06 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 05, 2020, 01:53:28 PM

Interesting side effect:
https://futurism.com/the-byte/earth-standing-still-pandemic

Pollution & CO2 declining as well.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/mar/23/coronavirus-pandemic-leading-to-huge-drop-in-air-pollution

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 05, 2020, 03:57:01 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 05, 2020, 03:06:06 PM

Pollution & CO2 declining as well.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/mar/23/coronavirus-pandemic-leading-to-huge-drop-in-air-pollution

I saw something posted on Facebook - probably half-joking and half not - that said something like "COVID-19 is the earth's way of getting back at us for fooking up the environment."

It obviously isn't that simple, but you kind of wonder about the whole butterfly effect thing....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 05, 2020, 03:58:49 PM

Boris Johnson has been admitted to the hospital with his COVID symptoms.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: lawdog77 on April 05, 2020, 04:23:57 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on April 04, 2020, 05:54:18 PM

Citizens who lost health coverage in past 2 weeks due to economic collapse:

USA 3,500,000
Australia 0
Belgium 0
Canada 0
Chile 0
Denmark 0
Finland 0
France 0
Germany 0
Greece 0
Hungary 0
Italy 0
Japan 0
New Zealand 0
Norway 0
Portugal 0
S Korea 0
Spain 0
Sweden 0
Turkey 0
UK 0

Where is this stat coming from? If it is from job loss, their policy would have went through the end of the month, then could have added health insurance via COBRA or the marketplace.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 05, 2020, 04:42:08 PM

Quote from: lawdog77 on April 05, 2020, 04:23:57 PM

Where is this stat coming from? If it is from job loss, their policy would have went through the end of the month, then could have added health insurance via COBRA or the marketplace.

Just made up hysteria from flyer, thinking that everyone's health insurance is tied to their job.  Nevermind that sone companies are continuing coverage for their furloughed employees, some have coverage through a spouse or parent, or that the great Obamacare is available and is supposedly there to allow folks to take risks, start their own businesses, or do a job they like, not have to for insurance.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on April 05, 2020, 04:45:00 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on April 05, 2020, 04:42:08 PM

Just made up hysteria from flyer, thinking that everyone's health insurance is tied to their job.  Nevermind that sone companies are continuing coverage for their furloughed employees, some have coverage through a spouse or parent, or that the great Obamacare is available and is supposedly there to allow folks to take risks, start their own businesses, or do a job they like, not have to for insurance.

Phew! Perfect system we have here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 05, 2020, 04:47:42 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 04, 2020, 11:42:51 PM

One easy solution - instead of waffling whenever asked about states that haven’t yet implemented stay at home orders - he could strongly and consistently call out every holdout, pointing out that we are all in this together and need to do what the public health experts are recommending. Consistent, unifying, and supported by what scientists currently know about the virus.

If he repeated that mantra sincerely and consistently, we would have the ability to fight the pandemic in a unified way.

He has for New York and attacked for doing so.  Look at the New York subways, they are packed with people.  Is that blood on the federal government's hands? 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8183545/Shocking-picture-shows-New-York-train-packed-mask-wearing-passengers-despite-lockdown.html

This is why this blame game is foolish.  Talk about mixed messages.  Federal gov't advises people to stay home (he cannot order that legally) and New Yorkers packing subway cars at the same time their city is over run with this.  It is easy to point to one single person, but that doesn't make it true.  He has failed as have state and local officials, past and present if you wish to dig deep enough.  A budget cut in 2015 can have an impact today.  What is the point?  Let's solve it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 05, 2020, 04:49:35 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 05, 2020, 06:53:56 AM

Sweden is rethinking their strategy.  Sounds like UK 3 weeks ago

 https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-04/sweden-girds-for-thousands-of-deaths-amid-laxer-virus-response (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-04/sweden-girds-for-thousands-of-deaths-amid-laxer-virus-response)

Sweeden's policy is set by a scientist and we are told to believe and listen to the scientists.  Which scientists?  Which experts?  This is where the blame game breaks apart. 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1265130/coronavirus-sweden-uk-covid-19-herd-immunity-pandemic-anders-tegnell-lockdown

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on April 05, 2020, 04:51:27 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 05, 2020, 04:47:42 PM

He has for New York and attacked for doing so.  Look at the New York subways, they are packed with people.  Is that blood on the federal government's hands? 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8183545/Shocking-picture-shows-New-York-train-packed-mask-wearing-passengers-despite-lockdown.html

This is why this blame game is foolish.  Talk about mixed messages.  Federal gov't advises people to stay home (he cannot order that legally) and New Yorkers packing subway cars at the same time their city is over run with this.  It is easy to point to one single person, but that doesn't make it true.  He has failed as have state and local officials, past and present if you wish to dig deep enough.  A budget cut in 2015 can have an impact today.  What is the point?  Let's solve it.

Would love to. Unfortunately we don’t have the administration to do that in place.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 05, 2020, 05:11:30 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 05, 2020, 04:47:42 PM

He has for New York and attacked for doing so.  Look at the New York subways, they are packed with people.  Is that blood on the federal government's hands? 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8183545/Shocking-picture-shows-New-York-train-packed-mask-wearing-passengers-despite-lockdown.html

This is why this blame game is foolish.  Talk about mixed messages.  Federal gov't advises people to stay home (he cannot order that legally) and New Yorkers packing subway cars at the same time their city is over run with this.  It is easy to point to one single person, but that doesn't make it true.  He has failed as have state and local officials, past and present if you wish to dig deep enough.  A budget cut in 2015 can have an impact today.  What is the point?  Let's solve it.

What a Chicos.

You can solve while blaming.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on April 05, 2020, 05:17:51 PM

I do enjoy the amount that warriordad posts when chicos is banned

I'm still waiting for my 200 dollars

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 05, 2020, 05:21:14 PM

Quote from: lawdog77 on April 05, 2020, 04:23:57 PM

Where is this stat coming from? If it is from job loss, their policy would have went through the end of the month, then could have added health insurance via COBRA or the marketplace.

COBRA is awfully expensive for someone who lost their job and could face months of unemployment. The marketplace is not reopening.
And this was from March, so the policies are done.
But let’s say that a third of the unemployed are lacking health care. Counting their family members it could well exceed that number.
But even if not, wouldn’t you say 1 million is considerably more than 0?

Point is there are many more that had insurance last month that don’t this month and we are the only first world country where that is the case.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: lawdog77 on April 05, 2020, 05:36:10 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on April 05, 2020, 05:21:14 PM

COBRA is awfully expensive for someone who lost their job and could face months of unemployment. The marketplace is not reopening.
And this was from March, so the policies are done.
But let’s say that a third of the unemployed are lacking health care. Counting their family members it could well exceed that number.
But even if not, wouldn’t you say 1 million is considerably more than 0?

Point is there are many more that had insurance last month that don’t this month and we are the only first world country where that is the case.

The marketplace is open for life changing events (loss of job), if you cannot afford COBRA, you can get a policy via the marketplace. I am not saying the policy is perfect, or even close to it, but stick to facts.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on April 05, 2020, 05:42:36 PM

Quote from: lawdog77 on April 05, 2020, 05:36:10 PM

The marketplace is open for life changing events (loss of job), if you cannot afford COBRA, you can get a policy via the marketplace. I am not saying the policy is perfect, or even close to it, but stick to facts.

This is correct.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 05, 2020, 05:43:15 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on April 05, 2020, 04:42:08 PM

Just made up hysteria from flyer, thinking that everyone's health insurance is tied to their job.  Nevermind that sone companies are continuing coverage for their furloughed employees, some have coverage through a spouse or parent, or that the great Obamacare is available and is supposedly there to allow folks to take risks, start their own businesses, or do a job they like, not have to for insurance.

Fake News.
Despite the urging of many, including the insurance industry, and his own promise to do so, the president last week reneged and decided not to offer a special Obamacare enrollment for those who now need it.
This means that those who don't already have the coverage are excluded until next year.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 05, 2020, 05:47:18 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 05, 2020, 04:47:42 PM

He has for New York and attacked for doing so.  Look at the New York subways, they are packed with people.  Is that blood on the federal government's hands? 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8183545/Shocking-picture-shows-New-York-train-packed-mask-wearing-passengers-despite-lockdown.html

This is why this blame game is foolish.  Talk about mixed messages.  Federal gov't advises people to stay home (he cannot order that legally) and New Yorkers packing subway cars at the same time their city is over run with this.  It is easy to point to one single person, but that doesn't make it true.  He has failed as have state and local officials, past and present if you wish to dig deep enough.  A budget cut in 2015 can have an impact today.  What is the point?  Let's solve it.

You asked a question, I answered it directly with a simple strategy, and you respond with "this blame game is foolish"?

My simple plan was to develop and deliver a strong and consistent message (ideally based on input from experts).

Unfortunately, he has not done that for NYC or anywhere else. First he recommended business as usual (even as experts wanted against it), then he recommended that New Yorkers stay at home, yet still he is not doing the same thing for the states that still don't have stay at home orders in place. What are citizens to believe when the message - from severity of the threat when it was new, to the need to test, to the need to stay at home - seems to change as the wind blows?

So you say "let's solve it," and I agree. So again I say: Come up with a plan with input from the experts, develop a strong message based on that plan, and apply it consistently. Then only change the message when the experts give you a very good reason for doing so, and explain the reason for the change.

FWIW - I would recommend this general strategy to ANY leader, regardless of party affiliation, because we need to get through this with as little death and disruption as possible.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 05, 2020, 05:49:52 PM

Quote from: lawdog77 on April 05, 2020, 05:36:10 PM

The marketplace is open for life changing events (loss of job), if you cannot afford COBRA, you can get a policy via the marketplace. I am not saying the policy is perfect, or even close to it, but stick to facts.

Thanks, I stand corrected on that point.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on April 05, 2020, 05:51:13 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on April 05, 2020, 05:43:15 PM

Fake News.
Despite the urging of many, including the insurance industry, and his own promise to do so, the president last week reneged and decided not to offer a special Obamacare enrollment for those who now need it.
This means that those who don't already have the coverage are excluded until next year.

You can enroll anytime you have a life changing event. Such as losing your job, getting a new job. I did that last year.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 05, 2020, 06:07:15 PM

“US ‘Wasted’ Months Before Preparing for Virus Pandemic”

Before I get accused of partisan bickering, note that this story is from the AP, widely viewed as the most unbiased media source today: 

https://apnews.com/090600c299a8cf07f5b44d92534856bc

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on April 05, 2020, 06:15:33 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 05, 2020, 06:07:15 PM

“US ‘Wasted’ Months Before Preparing for Virus Pandemic”

Before I get accused of partisan bickering, note that this story is from the AP, widely viewed as the most unbiased media source today: 

https://apnews.com/090600c299a8cf07f5b44d92534856bc

Yeah. It’s very clear this was terribly mishandled and lives will be lost and the economy will take a greater hit than it should have. Anybody who denies that has their head in the sand.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 05, 2020, 06:24:03 PM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on April 05, 2020, 05:51:13 PM

You can enroll anytime you have a life changing event. Such as losing your job, getting a new job. I did that last year.

Impossible,  pakuni is always right.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 05, 2020, 06:24:29 PM

Quote from: wadesworld on April 05, 2020, 06:15:33 PM

Yeah. It’s very clear this was terribly mishandled and lives will be lost and the economy will take a greater hit than it should have. Anybody who denies that has their head in the sand.

I think it’s been ‘mishandled’ broadly in the western world.  It’s TBD who makes it through best.  USA, in my opinion, good on economic response — average minus health response. 

I hope when this comes back in the fall we have SK or Germany capability + a much better understanding of a therapeutic (we should as the scientist are working on it).

Fingers crossed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 05, 2020, 06:34:51 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on April 05, 2020, 06:24:03 PM

Impossible,  pakuni is always right.

You're learning!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 05, 2020, 06:41:11 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 05, 2020, 06:24:29 PM

I think it’s been ‘mishandled’ broadly in the western world.  It’s TBD who makes it through best.  USA, in my opinion, good on economic response — average minus health response. 

I hope when this comes back in the fall we have SK or Germany capability + a much better understanding of a therapeutic (we should as the scientist are working on it).

Fingers crossed.

just not sure how this is kept at bay until there is a vaccine or it is known for sure you cannot get it twice and a test is available to show if you have had it before.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 05, 2020, 06:49:52 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on April 05, 2020, 06:41:11 PM

just not sure how this is kept at bay until there is a vaccine or it is known for sure you cannot get it twice and a test is available to show if you have had it before.

I am much more interested in this than any backward looks.  We are where we are (not a great place). Now how do we make the best system to survive the next 12 months until mass vaccine.  Including btw global coverage of vaccine to return the global economy to growth. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 05, 2020, 07:18:28 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 05, 2020, 06:49:52 PM

I am much more interested in this than any backward looks.  We are where we are (not a great place). Now how do we make the best system to survive the next 12 months until mass vaccine.  Including btw global coverage of vaccine to return the global economy to growth.

I know we can site and argue all day about how it should have been handled but it wont change a thing.  I am tired at looking back want something to look forward to.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 05, 2020, 07:19:26 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 05, 2020, 06:49:52 PM

I am much more interested in this than any backward looks.  We are where we are (not a great place). Now how do we make the best system to survive the next 12 months until mass vaccine.  Including btw global coverage of vaccine to return the global economy to growth.

They simple answer is a medical treatment + herd immunity.
Once a proven treatment is readily available that makes this more survivable, I tend to believe there will be a push to open things back up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 05, 2020, 07:24:38 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 05, 2020, 06:49:52 PM

I am much more interested in this than any backward looks.  We are where we are (not a great place). Now how do we make the best system to survive the next 12 months until mass vaccine.  Including btw global coverage of vaccine to return the global economy to growth.

Widespread reliable testing. That is going to be a requirement to get back to any sense of normalcy. We need to be able to test everyone. We have tested about 0.3% of the population so far.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 05, 2020, 07:30:10 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on April 05, 2020, 07:24:38 PM

Widespread reliable testing. That is going to be a requirement to get back to any sense of normalcy. We need to be able to test everyone. We have tested about 0.3% of the population so far.

I agree it’s testing, contact tracing and antibody blood testing.  Duh I guess. Where is our government on all these items?????

I don’t mean to be flip or dismissive, but it’s not that hard to figure out the path forward.  Doing it seems to be elusive.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 05, 2020, 07:39:54 PM

if we can start to open things up by june then we have the summer without many indoor large gatherings to build the herd immunity and be ready for school starting up again in September

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 05, 2020, 07:41:01 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on April 05, 2020, 07:39:54 PM

if we can start to open things up by june then we have the summer without many indoor large gatherings to build the herd immunity and be ready for school starting up again in September

Hope.  What’s the plan

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 05, 2020, 07:50:04 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 05, 2020, 04:47:42 PM

He has for New York and attacked for doing so.  Look at the New York subways, they are packed with people.  Is that blood on the federal government's hands? 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8183545/Shocking-picture-shows-New-York-train-packed-mask-wearing-passengers-despite-lockdown.html

This is why this blame game is foolish.  Talk about mixed messages.  Federal gov't advises people to stay home (he cannot order that legally) and New Yorkers packing subway cars at the same time their city is over run with this.  It is easy to point to one single person, but that doesn't make it true.  He has failed as have state and local officials, past and present if you wish to dig deep enough.  A budget cut in 2015 can have an impact today.  What is the point?  Let's solve it.

How would you propose essential workers get to and from work in NYC?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 05, 2020, 07:52:58 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on April 05, 2020, 07:24:38 PM

Widespread reliable testing. That is going to be a requirement to get back to any sense of normalcy. We need to be able to test everyone. We have tested about 0.3% of the population so far.

ETA: We've tested about 0.5% of the population, assuming a pop of 330 million.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 05, 2020, 08:00:24 PM

https://theconversation.com/a-small-trial-finds-that-hydroxychloroquine-is-not-effective-for-treating-coronavirus-135484

If this medication does work, it's only for early use to prevent worsening.

So all the talk of "last resort" use doesn't make any sense.

Also, some background on the Marseille study/author:

Quote

Some of the problems with the Marseille study:

-Author has a history of fabricating data and has had publishing bans from numerous journals

-Excluded 6 patients from analysis. All 6 were given the treatment and then progressed to ICU. One died.

-Very small sample size

-Unblinded

-Unrandomized

-Peer review process lasted <1 day

-The study author also happens to be the editor-in-chief of the medical journal which published it

-He also happens to be chairman of the institute where the study was run.

This study should be aggressively ignored by literally everyone.

**Edit**

I should clarify that I'm not saying that he's a total fraud and he's never done anything valuable. He's extremely prolific and I would think he has contributed important and impressive work in his career. I am saying that for someone of his position to produce such poor studies and draw such inappropriate conclusions from them during this viral pandemic is shameful, irresponsible, and harmful.

This may be personal opinion on my part (slander if you want), but it seems to me like an obvious attempt to gain fame and reputation during a health crisis. That's insulting not just to the medical community but to the public, who doesn't know any better but whom we ask to trust us.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 05, 2020, 08:57:38 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on April 05, 2020, 07:52:58 PM

ETA: We've tested about 0.5% of the population, assuming a pop of 330 million.

Wow. So 660,000 people tested in 28 minutes. Now, that’s big time progress.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 05, 2020, 09:11:52 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 05, 2020, 08:57:38 PM

Wow. So 660,000 people tested in 28 minutes. Now, that’s big time progress.

Or I just redid the math.  ;D

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 05, 2020, 09:22:04 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 05, 2020, 08:00:24 PM

Some of the problems with the Marseille study:

-Author has a history of fabricating data and has had publishing bans from numerous journals

-Excluded 6 patients from analysis. All 6 were given the treatment and then progressed to ICU. One died.

-Very small sample size

-Unblinded

-Unrandomized

-Peer review process lasted <1 day

-The study author also happens to be the editor-in-chief of the medical journal which published it

-He also happens to be chairman of the institute where the study was run.

This study should be aggressively ignored by literally everyone.

**Edit**

I should clarify that I'm not saying that he's a total fraud and he's never done anything valuable. He's extremely prolific and I would think he has contributed important and impressive work in his career. I am saying that for someone of his position to produce such poor studies and draw such inappropriate conclusions from them during this viral pandemic is shameful, irresponsible, and harmful.

This may be personal opinion on my part (slander if you want), but it seems to me like an obvious attempt to gain fame and reputation during a health crisis. That's insulting not just to the medical community but to the public, who doesn't know any better but whom we ask to trust us.

Yikes! Sounds like someone might have flushed a productive career down the toilet with some research misconduct.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 05, 2020, 09:28:32 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 05, 2020, 08:57:38 PM

Wow. So 660,000 people tested in 28 minutes. Now, that’s big time progress.

and 1 tiger tested as well!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 05, 2020, 09:32:29 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on April 05, 2020, 09:28:32 PM

and 1 tiger tested as well!!

Be accurate. You have no idea how many tigers they tested. One positive. They could have tested thousands of tigers.  ;D

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 05, 2020, 09:36:22 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on April 05, 2020, 09:32:29 PM

Be accurate. You have no idea how many tigers they tested. One positive. They could have tested thousands of tigers.  ;D

sorry you are probably right.  especially if they hit the Tiger Kings zoo

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 05, 2020, 09:45:05 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on April 05, 2020, 09:36:22 PM

sorry you are probably right.  especially if they hit the Tiger Kings zoo

That truly made me laugh out loud. Thanks!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 05, 2020, 10:29:46 PM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on April 05, 2020, 05:17:51 PM

I do enjoy the amount that warriordad posts when chicos is banned

I'm still waiting for my 200 dollars

He really tried hard to keep the charade going, but this is who he is.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 05, 2020, 10:32:57 PM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on April 05, 2020, 05:51:13 PM

You can enroll anytime you have a life changing event. Such as losing your job, getting a new job. I did that last year.

You are 100% correct. The problem is that most people don’t know about it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 05, 2020, 10:37:47 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on April 05, 2020, 07:24:38 PM

Widespread reliable testing. That is going to be a requirement to get back to any sense of normalcy. We need to be able to test everyone. We have tested about 0.3% of the population so far.

Liar. Liar.  ;)

It’s closer to .4%. But the other 99.6% can get the test any time they want it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 05, 2020, 11:47:31 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 05, 2020, 07:30:10 PM

I agree it’s testing, contact tracing and antibody blood testing.  Duh I guess. Where is our government on all these items?????

I don’t mean to be flip or dismissive, but it’s not that hard to figure out the path forward.  Doing it seems to be elusive.

Dunno where the government is on any of these, but Mayo Clinic is rolling out its antibody testing tomorrow.

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/04/01/mayo-clinic-expects-covid19-antibody-test-to-be-ready-monday

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 06, 2020, 08:49:17 AM

Quote from: MU82 on April 05, 2020, 09:23:22 AM

I wish I could have a good deep dish pizza. Here in Charlotte, it's mostly a pizza wasteland, and certainly devoid of deep dish pizza.

I gave myself a 4-day timeout from this thread. I returned last night to see multiple ultra-partisan, hate-filled, screaming rants by one Scooper -- worse posts than anything I had seen from Scoopers on either side of the aisle in a long, long time.

I agree with you that we should discuss the topic at hand. Here in NC, it's just getting exponentially worse and worse. Every day, more sickness and death than the day before.

It's also getting worse in our neighboring state, Georgia, but the governor there just signed an executive order RE-opening the state's beaches. He did so against the wishes of the mayors of several beach-side towns. This is the same guy who didn't know until a few days ago that asymptomatic people could transmit COVID-19. Ignorance is bliss ... as long as you don't mind people dying.

Deep Dish Pizza???!!! 
MU82, you are forgetting your roots!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 06, 2020, 09:23:23 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 06, 2020, 08:49:17 AM

Deep Dish Pizza???!!! 
MU82, you are forgetting your roots!

Not ashamed to admit that Pequod's deep dish is my favorite pizza of all-time ... but I still like a nice New Haven-style too, sir!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 06, 2020, 09:26:05 AM

Quote from: MU82 on April 06, 2020, 09:23:23 AM

Not ashamed to admit that Pequod's deep dish is my favorite pizza of all-time ... but I still like a nice New Haven-style too, sir!

Did you ever pop up to the original in Morton Grove? I've always been curious how it compares to the one in the city.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 06, 2020, 09:29:01 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on April 06, 2020, 09:26:05 AM

Did you ever pop up to the original in Morton Grove? I've always been curious how it compares to the one in the city.

Ate there once a few years ago, and it was superb, just like the Lincoln Park restaurant. We lived only a couple miles from LP, though, so that's where we went. The last couple of times we had delivery it was a disaster -- took nearly 2 hours. So from now on, we won't get it unless we can dine in. It's fresher that way, anyway.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 06, 2020, 09:30:41 AM

How the unnatural carnal knowledge does a tiger get tested? What are we even doing?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 06, 2020, 09:31:08 AM

Sweden stopped a hydroxychloroquine trial due to significant side effects.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on April 06, 2020, 09:33:40 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on April 05, 2020, 05:43:15 PM

Fake News.
Despite the urging of many, including the insurance industry, and his own promise to do so, the president last week reneged and decided not to offer a special Obamacare enrollment for those who now need it.
This means that those who don't already have the coverage are excluded until next year.

Unless they lose their job, have a kid, get married, etc.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on April 06, 2020, 09:35:39 AM

Quote from: MU82 on April 06, 2020, 09:23:23 AM

Not ashamed to admit that Pequod's deep dish is my favorite pizza of all-time ... but I still like a nice New Haven-style too, sir!

Looooooove Pequod's

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on April 06, 2020, 09:36:55 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on April 06, 2020, 09:26:05 AM

Did you ever pop up to the original in Morton Grove? I've always been curious how it compares to the one in the city.

Food is the same. Ambiance is night and day. Lincoln Park location is a busy, bustling sports bar atmosphere.

Morton grove is a sleepy little location. I'm sure it gets busy, but it is much smaller, not nearly as loud or as many TVs

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 06, 2020, 09:37:53 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 06, 2020, 09:30:41 AM

How the unnatural carnal knowledge does a tiger get tested? What are we even doing?

He wanted one. Anyone that wants one can get one.  ;D

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on April 06, 2020, 09:59:35 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 06, 2020, 09:30:41 AM

How the unnatural carnal knowledge does a tiger get tested? What are we even doing?

Honestly from what I can tell, it was because he was coughing and lived in New York (I crap you not).

It seems frivolous, but there are probably a lot of good reasons to test if there was any kind of chance it would come back positive.  Animal welfare at zoos is on that list, yes, but so is buildling a knowledge base of interspecies spread and potential hazards of spreading across species with domestic animals and household pets.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 06, 2020, 10:04:05 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 06, 2020, 09:31:08 AM

Sweden stopped a hydroxychloroquine trial due to significant side effects.

Not terribly surprising...but do you have a link, or do you know what the side effects were? I did a google search and couldn't find anything....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 06, 2020, 10:05:45 AM

Quote from: MUBurrow on April 06, 2020, 09:59:35 AM

Honestly from what I can tell, it was because he was coughing and lived in New York (I crap you not).

It seems frivolous, but there are probably a lot of good reasons to test if there was any kind of chance it would come back positive.  Animal welfare at zoos is on that list, yes, but so is buildling a knowledge base of interspecies spread and potential hazards of spreading across species with domestic animals and household pets.

And his main handler tested positive.  So yes it seems legit it was not one of Joe Exotic's tigers and may prove to help control things down the road

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 06, 2020, 10:06:56 AM

Quote from: MUBurrow on April 06, 2020, 09:59:35 AM

Honestly from what I can tell, it was because he was coughing and lived in New York (I crap you not).

It seems frivolous, but there are probably a lot of good reasons to test if there was any kind of chance it would come back positive.  Animal welfare at zoos is on that list, yes, but so is buildling a knowledge base of interspecies spread and potential hazards of spreading across species with domestic animals and household pets.

It was multiple felines all with COVID like symptoms.

It is a big deal.

There is emerging discussion/evidence that COVID has been in humans form months, maybe a year or more. Where it has mutated slowly from a poorly communicative (in humans) disease to be more infectious and dangerous.

Part of that process might be multiple passages between animals and humans. They know that the version circulating in humans has mutations compared to those in bats/pangolins that make it more infectious in humans. We just don't know what reservoir this was circulating in before those mutations occurred.

Won't be surprised if we see China seize on this type of news, as it could mean it didn't start there, but simply the final mutated versions erupted there.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 06, 2020, 10:07:07 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 06, 2020, 09:30:41 AM

How the unnatural carnal knowledge does a tiger get tested? What are we even doing?

From the Bronx Zoo FB page:

From Dr. Paul Calle, Bronx Zoo chief veterinarian; "The COVID-19 testing that was performed on our Malayan tiger Nadia was performed in a veterinary school laboratory and is not the same test as is used for people. You cannot send human samples to the veterinary laboratory, and you cannot send animal tests to the human laboratories, so there is no competition for testing between these very different situations."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 06, 2020, 10:13:36 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 06, 2020, 10:04:05 AM

Not terribly surprising...but do you have a link, or do you know what the side effects were? I did a google search and couldn't find anything....

https://www.expressen.se/nyheter/carl-40-fick-kramp-och-syn-problem-av-coronamedicin/

How's your Swedish?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 06, 2020, 10:14:34 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 06, 2020, 10:07:07 AM

From the Bronx Zoo FB page:

From Dr. Paul Calle, Bronx Zoo chief veterinarian; "The COVID-19 testing that was performed on our Malayan tiger Nadia was performed in a veterinary school laboratory and is not the same test as is used for people. You cannot send human samples to the veterinary laboratory, and you cannot send animal tests to the human laboratories, so there is no competition for testing between these very different situations."

Yes. I know the lab that ran these tests. The tigers were not taking tests away from people. This is what these labs do in cooperation with veterinary doctors.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on April 06, 2020, 10:16:50 AM

Plasma donations are already happening

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/06/us/plasma-donor-coronavirus/index.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 06, 2020, 10:19:10 AM

Quote from: forgetful on April 06, 2020, 10:06:56 AM

It was multiple felines all with COVID like symptoms.

It is a big deal.

There is emerging discussion/evidence that COVID has been in humans form months, maybe a year or more. Where it has mutated slowly from a poorly communicative (in humans) disease to be more infectious and dangerous.

Part of that process might be multiple passages between animals and humans. They know that the version circulating in humans has mutations compared to those in bats/pangolins that make it more infectious in humans. We just don't know what reservoir this was circulating in before those mutations occurred.

Won't be surprised if we see China seize on this type of news, as it could mean it didn't start there, but simply the final mutated versions erupted there.

Has this been published in any articles?  Would be curious to read.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 06, 2020, 10:27:15 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 06, 2020, 10:19:10 AM

Has this been published in any articles?  Would be curious to read.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

This was the primary paper. There has been discussion outside of the literature about what this all means.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on April 06, 2020, 11:09:13 AM

NY and CA deaths flat for a second day.  New hospitalizations and new ICU cases in NY down for a second straight day.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 06, 2020, 11:16:01 AM

https://www.wsj.com/articles/world-health-coronavirus-disinformation-11586122093?shareToken=st6ac47d98e021409585a674b4b56088e2&reflink=article_email_share

WHO and China - where blame really belongs.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 06, 2020, 11:16:36 AM

I just got off the phone with a customer in Mexico.  Everything in the country is shutting down until April 27.  I was expediting wire for them and they said wait until end of the month.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 06, 2020, 11:18:04 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 06, 2020, 10:04:05 AM

Not terribly surprising...but do you have a link, or do you know what the side effects were? I did a google search and couldn't find anything....

https://www.politicopathy.com/2020/04/06/ama-president-has-a-stark-warning-about-trumps-coronavirus-treatment-advice/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 06, 2020, 11:22:19 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 06, 2020, 11:16:01 AM

https://www.wsj.com/articles/world-health-coronavirus-disinformation-11586122093?shareToken=st6ac47d98e021409585a674b4b56088e2&reflink=article_email_share

WHO and China - where blame really belongs.

So, even if everything in the article is fact, what does that have to do with our leader screwing up the response here in the U.S.?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 06, 2020, 11:25:44 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on April 06, 2020, 11:09:13 AM

NY and CA deaths flat for a second day.  New hospitalizations and new ICU cases in NY down for a second straight day.

as are new cases

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 06, 2020, 11:29:55 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on April 06, 2020, 10:13:36 AM

https://www.expressen.se/nyheter/carl-40-fick-kramp-och-syn-problem-av-coronamedicin/

How's your Swedish?

Google/Chome translate is better than mine, so I'll paste it here:

Quote

In the USA, for example, chloroquine, malaria medicine, has been highlighted as a miracle cure for the new coronavirus. President Donald Trump has argued that chloroquine is a possible "game changer". In France, corona patients have been treated with the drug and believed that several of them became healthy after six days of treatment, La Provence writes .

Also in Sweden patients with covid-19 disease have been treated with malaria medicine. Carl Sydenhag, 40, from Stockholm, is one of the people who received chloroquine.

On March 23, Carl Sydenhag tested positive for the corona virus after having a fever and breathing difficulties. At Södersjukhuset in Stockholm he received antibiotics intravenously and chloroquine.

- I was prescribed to take two tablets in the morning and two in the evening, says Carl Sydenhag.

But instead of getting better, he began to feel worse.

- I got cramps and a headache that I have never had before. It felt like I had stepped into a high voltage plant.

Affected vision
Carl Sydenhag says that his vision was also affected and that his peripheral vision was reduced. He then decided to read the package leaflet and saw that the side effects he experienced usually occurred in one in 100 taking the medication.

- Then I called the Poison Information Center which said that the dose I had been given was dangerous, so I stopped taking the tablets and went to the hospital again.

Once at the hospital, doctors thought that Carl probably received an excessive dose of the medication.

Today he no longer has any symptoms for covid-19, but believes that his vision is still worse than usual and that he still feels dizzy.

- But I feel much better than I did before. It may have been that the malaria medicine helped against the corona and I am very grateful for that, but you have to dose correctly, says Carl Sydenhag.

Has stopped giving chloroquine
Chloroquine has been given to covid-19 in several hospitals in Sweden. But last week, all hospitals in the Västra Götaland region stopped medicine.

- There were reports of suspected more serious side effects than we first thought. We cannot rule out serious side effects, especially from the heart, and it is a hard-dosed drug. In addition, we have no strong evidence that chloroquine has an effect at covid-19, ”says Magnus Gisslén, professor and chief physician at the infection clinic at Sahlgrenska University Hospital, to the Gothenburg Post .

The Southern Hospital in Stockholm, where Carl Sydenhag received chloroquine prints for covid-19, has also decided to stop giving malaria medicine to corona patients, according to the Gothenburg Post.

In an email to Expressen, Hedvig Glans, section manager of the infection unit at Karolinska University Hospital, writes that chloroquine was given to the more oxygen-demanding corona patients and that a thorough investigation was done before the drug was used.

Furthermore, Hedvig Glans writes that the use of chloroquine has decreased.

"By following developments, the scientific compilations and studies in progress, the use of chloroquine phosphate is being re-evaluated daily, and this has currently been greatly reduced and is not used routinely." , writes Hedvig Glans.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 06, 2020, 11:43:59 AM

Chatting with an army veteran about the anti malaria drug.  He said he was given it before shipping out to Afghanistan.   He, and many of his brethren experienced night terrors.   He said he would take his chances with the Covid rather than take that medicine again.

Side effects are a thing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 06, 2020, 11:55:12 AM

Here is an Opinion piece about about anti-viral and antibody drugs by Scott Gottlieb.

 https://www.wsj.com/articles/bet-big-on-treatments-for-coronavirus-11586102963?mod=e2fb (https://www.wsj.com/articles/bet-big-on-treatments-for-coronavirus-11586102963?mod=e2fb)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 06, 2020, 11:58:31 AM

Quote from: tower912 on April 06, 2020, 11:43:59 AM

Chatting with an army veteran about the anti malaria drug.  He said he was given it before shipping out to Afghanistan.   He, and many of his brethren experienced night terrors.   He said he would take his chances with the Covid rather than take that medicine again.

Side effects are a thing.
[/quote

For sure.  I've not taken it - got the newer "good stuff"  that doesn't have many side effects, but heard stories about the original.  If you every meed to take anti-malaria medication - request Malarone.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 06, 2020, 12:03:46 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 06, 2020, 11:58:31 AM

Quote from: tower912 on April 06, 2020, 11:43:59 AM

Chatting with an army veteran about the anti malaria drug.  He said he was given it before shipping out to Afghanistan.   He, and many of his brethren experienced night terrors.   He said he would take his chances with the Covid rather than take that medicine again.

Side effects are a thing.
[/quote

For sure.  I've not taken it - got the newer "good stuff"  that doesn't have many side effects, but heard stories about the original.  If you every meed to take anti-malaria medication - request Malarone.

I just took this past November on my visit to India.  No side effects that I recall, but the nurse who administered did say there was another anti-malarial version that gave horrendous night hallucinations. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Silent Verbal on April 06, 2020, 12:08:25 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on April 06, 2020, 11:09:13 AM

NY and CA deaths flat for a second day.  New hospitalizations and new ICU cases in NY down for a second straight day.

With this and the positive news out of Washington state, are we beginning to see some of the first signs that social distancing is working?  I know it’s only two days, but man, three straight weeks of bad news has been a lot to take.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 06, 2020, 12:11:24 PM

Quote from: Silent Verbal on April 06, 2020, 12:08:25 PM

With this and the positive news out of Washington state, are we beginning to see some of the first signs that social distancing is working?  I know it’s only two days, but man, three straight weeks of bad news has been a lot to take.

I think so too.  Also it seems to be working in Italy & Spain.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on April 06, 2020, 12:14:37 PM

Quote from: tower912 on April 06, 2020, 11:43:59 AM

Chatting with an army veteran about the anti malaria drug.  He said he was given it before shipping out to Afghanistan.   He, and many of his brethren experienced night terrors.   He said he would take his chances with the Covid rather than take that medicine again.

Side effects are a thing.

Ive had 3 friends take it before trips to Africa/India.  One had hallucinations, one was perfectly fine, one had a weird dream one night and that was it.  YMMV

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 06, 2020, 01:08:12 PM

Quote from: Silent Verbal on April 06, 2020, 12:08:25 PM

With this and the positive news out of Washington state, are we beginning to see some of the first signs that social distancing is working?  I know it’s only two days, but man, three straight weeks of bad news has been a lot to take.

It seems pretty clear that it's working. The larger question is how long does it need to continue before we can safely go back to normal without facing a huge rebound in cases?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Chili on April 06, 2020, 01:11:13 PM

Quote from: tower912 on April 06, 2020, 11:43:59 AM

Chatting with an army veteran about the anti malaria drug.  He said he was given it before shipping out to Afghanistan.   He, and many of his brethren experienced night terrors.   He said he would take his chances with the Covid rather than take that medicine again.

Side effects are a thing.

I took it on a trip to Ghana in 2000. Really f***** up dreams. One night dreamt I murdered my best friend. So yeah, side effects are real.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 06, 2020, 01:16:01 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 06, 2020, 11:16:01 AM

https://www.wsj.com/articles/world-health-coronavirus-disinformation-11586122093?shareToken=st6ac47d98e021409585a674b4b56088e2&reflink=article_email_share

WHO and China - where blame really belongs.

It is clear that WHO and China deserve some share of the blame. But how that does excuse the Administration's long delays once it was apparent what we were dealing with, and POTUS' inconsistent messaging?

https://apnews.com/090600c299a8cf07f5b44d92534856bc

https://apnews.com/0463fb7ca88b47860819fe56495b2ebc

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 06, 2020, 01:20:31 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 06, 2020, 01:16:01 PM

It is clear that WHO and China deserve some share of the blame. But how that does excuse the Administration's long delays once it was apparent what we were dealing with, and POTUS' inconsistent messaging?

https://apnews.com/090600c299a8cf07f5b44d92534856bc

https://apnews.com/0463fb7ca88b47860819fe56495b2ebc

Yes, it's clear China & the WHO messed up.  But it's a poor response from any nation to just say "don't blame our leaders".  And....enough on that.  I think we're all well aware of where we've been, and where this came from (some are in denial, but whatever).  Lets focus on the moving forward part...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Silent Verbal on April 06, 2020, 01:31:22 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 06, 2020, 01:08:12 PM

It seems pretty clear that it's working. The larger question is how long does it need to continue before we can safely go back to normal without facing a huge rebound in cases?

Yeah, that’s definitely the question.  If we continue to see a downturn in cases throughout April, it’ll be a hard sell to the American public to keep the country shut down any longer than mid-May.  I’d expect limited capacity for places like bars and restaurants, malls, beaches, theme parks/zoos etc for most of the summer, where people can begin to live their lives again but also practice social distancing.  So, not “normal” per se, but closer to it than the dystopian nightmare we’re currently living in.

I’d also optimistically say we’ll see a truncated version of the NBA playoffs in front of no fans in late May/June, and possibly baseball after the All-Star break.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 06, 2020, 01:38:02 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 06, 2020, 01:20:31 PM

Yes, it's clear China & the WHO messed up.  But it's a poor response from any nation to just say "don't blame our leaders".  And....enough on that.  I think we're all well aware of where we've been, and where this came from (some are in denial, but whatever).  Lets focus on the moving forward part...

Agreed. Was just responding to the comment that WHO and China were "where the blame really belongs."

Regarding moving forward, below is a link to information about the program for expanded access to convalescent plasma for treatment of COVID-19 patients:

https://www.uscovidplasma.org

As an aside, Mike Joyner (Principal Investigator for the study) is a friend of mine, and a great guy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 06, 2020, 01:43:59 PM

Quote from: Silent Verbal on April 06, 2020, 01:31:22 PM

Yeah, that’s definitely the question.  If we continue to see a downturn in cases throughout April, it’ll be a hard sell to the American public to keep the country shut down any longer than mid-May.  I’d expect limited capacity for places like bars and restaurants, malls, beaches, theme parks/zoos etc for most of the summer, where people can begin to live their lives again but also practice social distancing.  So, not “normal” per se, but closer to it than the dystopian nightmare we’re currently living in.

I’d also optimistically say we’ll see a truncated version of the NBA playoffs in front of no fans in late May/June, and possibly baseball after the All-Star break.

Agree...but I also agree that some of your timetables are "optimistic." IMHO, we may have seen the last of basketball for the year, and I'm skeptical we will have much baseball. Even the NFL might start late. FWIW - Peter King is reporting that the NFL is going to delay release of the schedule in order to work on shortened season scenarios (12 or 14 games, with no preseason). In his "spitballing" based on what he's heard, it's possible that training camp may not begin until September, with opening games in mid-October.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/04/06/nfl-draft-combined-telecast-colts-fmia-peter-king/

• It’s likely the NFL schedule-makers, led by Howard Katz, will spend their extra time this month working on 12-game and 14-game schedule alternatives. Roger Goodell sometimes sounds like New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo when he says inside NFL offices: “Hope is not a strategy.” In this case, the league hopes it can play a full 16-game regular-season schedule with a bye week. But nothing is certain these days. In the wake of the league saying the schedule would be released on May 9 at the latest, it would be foolish to sit on the schedule that could be ready by next week and not take the next five weeks to prepare for alternatives. That’s why I’m sure they are working on shorter, compacted schedules.

Spitballing: A 14-game schedule could be as simple as the league assigning every team one home and one road game on the weekends of Sept. 13 and 20, and if the season couldn’t start till the weekend of Sept. 27, those first two games could simply be lopped off the schedule, and each team would be left with seven home and seven road games. A more radical idea, if the season couldn’t start till mid-October: Opening night Oct. 15 at Kansas City, opening weekend continues on Oct. 18 and 19, a 12-week regular season, no byes, final regular-season games on Jan. 3. In that case, imagine the NFL scrubbing all preseason games and having training camps, likely closed to the public, beginning in early to mid-September. That’s five months from now. So much can happen to affect the schedule, obviously.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 06, 2020, 01:50:18 PM

I put the chances of any sort of NBA or NHL playoffs at less than 10%.  Having the NBA playoffs at one site where everyone is quarantined, etc. is just not going to be feasible.  Unless they push it all the way to September, but by then, what is the point?

Baseball could start late, but even a 100 game season might be too much.  And it will start without fans.

Peter King's scenario is what I think the NFL might look like.  Though it might start without fans.  I think you will see something similar for college football.  Only conference games.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 06, 2020, 01:55:35 PM

Interesting article from an infectious disease epidemiologist from the University of Hong Kong, with a statistical/epidemiological explanation of how to decide when to reopen society, and how to determine whether and when to reimpose restrictions:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/opinion/coronavirus-end-social-distancing.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

Without getting into the stats, he is essentially saying that places may have to reopen then impose restrictions repeatedly until we have a vaccine and/or a sufficient number of recovered cases to develop herd immunity.

Everyone wants to sprint, but we are in a marathon....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 06, 2020, 02:01:38 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 06, 2020, 01:55:35 PM

Interesting article from an infectious disease epidemiologist from the University of Hong Kong, with a statistical/epidemiological explanation of how to decide when to reopen society, and how to determine whether and when to reimpose restrictions:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/opinion/coronavirus-end-social-distancing.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

Without getting into the stats, he is essentially saying that places may have to reopen then impose restrictions repeatedly until we have a vaccine and/or a sufficient number of recovered cases to develop herd immunity.

Everyone wants to sprint, but we are in a marathon....

I believe that is the same type of scenario recommended by the Imperial College study that everyone is using.

Which makes todays stock market news kind of weird. They are acting like this is over.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 06, 2020, 02:08:17 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 06, 2020, 01:50:18 PM

I put the chances of any sort of NBA or NHL playoffs at less than 10%.  Having the NBA playoffs at one site where everyone is quarantined, etc. is just not going to be feasible.  Unless they push it all the way to September, but by then, what is the point?

Baseball could start late, but even a 100 game season might be too much.  And it will start without fans.

Peter King's scenario is what I think the NFL might look like.  Though it might start without fans.  I think you will see something similar for college football.  Only conference games.

I heard an MLB schedule proposal.  Play a 60 game schedule, 15 games against each team in your division. 
The playoffs would be a complete unknown.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on April 06, 2020, 02:16:02 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 06, 2020, 02:01:38 PM

I believe that is the same type of scenario recommended by the Imperial College study that everyone is using.

Which makes todays stock market news kind of weird. They are acting like this is over.

So the market isn't allowed to be green until the virus is completely eradicated?  People continue freaking out every time the market bounces like that means the market says its all over.  Its barely back to the highs of last week, just retraced the bloody end of the week.  Still almost 10% off the high of the last 30 days from early March, and 23% from the top.  It gained some footing based on progress.  Lots of bad news and decreased economic activity is priced in already.  We are just waffling in a range, albeit a huge and volatile one.

Unless we have some sort of catastrophic step back in China or the US or a major European country, this market isn't going to plunge to lows on COVID news alone. There absolutely will be more downside, but its going to come after the market releases some steam higher and then hard numbers from companies come out in the form of earnings and guidance reports and adjustments.  The market is a discounting and forecasting mechanism as a whole.  Its forward looking.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 06, 2020, 02:28:47 PM

Boris Johnson moved to ICU.  Trending in the wrong direction for him. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 06, 2020, 02:46:39 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 06, 2020, 02:28:47 PM

Boris Johnson moved to ICU.  Trending in the wrong direction for him.

Jesus, that was fast.  Real chance he doesn't make it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 06, 2020, 02:48:03 PM

http://www.healthdata.org/covid/updates

some good news buried there.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 06, 2020, 03:09:58 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 06, 2020, 01:50:18 PM

I put the chances of any sort of NBA or NHL playoffs at less than 10%.  Having the NBA playoffs at one site where everyone is quarantined, etc. is just not going to be feasible.  Unless they push it all the way to September, but by then, what is the point?

Baseball could start late, but even a 100 game season might be too much.  And it will start without fans.

Peter King's scenario is what I think the NFL might look like.  Though it might start without fans.  I think you will see something similar for college football.  Only conference games.

Then you have the trickle down to College what do they do?
Do schools start College and high school?
Is there a HS football season?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 06, 2020, 03:11:51 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 06, 2020, 02:48:03 PM

http://www.healthdata.org/covid/updates

some good news buried there.

So basically more deaths at the peak, and a longer ICU stay if that's where you end up, but a quicker return to baseline resulting in fewer total deaths during this "first wave."

I like the sound of it, but the more we know about it, the more clear it is that there will be more than one big wave, so we might be right back here (the "second wave") in the fall....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 06, 2020, 03:13:46 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 06, 2020, 02:46:39 PM

Jesus, that was fast.  Real chance he doesn't make it.

Yeah, that isn't a good sign. Especially bad if they need to intubate him.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 06, 2020, 03:20:35 PM

Was just stunned watching clip from yesterday’s dog and pony show where Trump refused to let Fauci speak about his snake oil solution.

Peter Navarro said he trusts Trump’s intuition over science.

Really. Those are the people in charge.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 06, 2020, 03:31:57 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 06, 2020, 03:20:35 PM

Was just stunned watching clip from yesterday’s dog and pony show where Trump refused to let Fauci speak about his snake oil solution.

Peter Navarro said he trusts Trump’s intuition over science.

Really. Those are the people in charge.

I think the mods have made it pretty clear that they want to move on from the political comments.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 06, 2020, 03:45:32 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 06, 2020, 03:31:57 PM

I think the mods have made it pretty clear that they want to move on from the political comments.

Rocky or Topper can correct me if I'm wrong, but my sense is that they want to get past the political blame game for what's in the past, and the insult hurling.

This, on the other hand, is a comment about how POTUS is making decisions TODAY. And it is frightening to see that the infectious disease expert is being pushed aside during a pandemic. I would be appalled if Hillary were POTUS and did that, and I am appalled that Trump doing that. To me, that isn't political; it's just common sense.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 06, 2020, 03:49:12 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on April 06, 2020, 02:16:02 PM

So the market isn't allowed to be green until the virus is completely eradicated?  People continue freaking out every time the market bounces like that means the market says its all over.  Its barely back to the highs of last week, just retraced the bloody end of the week.  Still almost 10% off the high of the last 30 days from early March, and 23% from the top.  It gained some footing based on progress.  Lots of bad news and decreased economic activity is priced in already.  We are just waffling in a range, albeit a huge and volatile one.

Unless we have some sort of catastrophic step back in China or the US or a major European country, this market isn't going to plunge to lows on COVID news alone. There absolutely will be more downside, but its going to come after the market releases some steam higher and then hard numbers from companies come out in the form of earnings and guidance reports and adjustments.  The market is a discounting and forecasting mechanism as a whole.  Its forward looking.

I didn't say the market can't respond positively. But there has been a large bounce on little to no positive data. There is no reason to believe that the economy will have a chance to return to normal within the next 6 months.

And that new normal will be at a significantly declined reference point.

Before there was any COVID, many were saying the market was overpriced and needed a 10-15% correction.

To me, it shows that the stock market is no longer rational. I honestly don't think it has been for awhile.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on April 06, 2020, 03:54:54 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 06, 2020, 02:46:39 PM

Jesus, that was fast.  Real chance he doesn't make it.

I was reading that people who end up needing ventilators, decline very rapidly around day 10. Milder symptoms until then. This lines up pretty well with that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 06, 2020, 04:01:15 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 06, 2020, 03:49:12 PM

I didn't say the market can't respond positively. But there has been a large bounce on little to no positive data. There is no reason to believe that the economy will have a chance to return to normal within the next 6 months.

And that new normal will be at a significantly declined reference point.

Before there was any COVID, many were saying the market was overpriced and needed a 10-15% correction.

To me, it shows that the stock market is no longer rational. I honestly don't think it has been for awhile.

I with you there.

It makes sense that we'd get a positive response to good news, but what we've been hearing is part good, part bad. The good of course is that staying at home is working, and the total deaths in this first wave might end up being lower than predicted. The bad is that once we reopen things, we will almost certainly begin to see subsequent waves and need to shut things down again. Hopefully, each successive wave gets smaller than the one before, but still, I can't imagine economists are thrilled by the prospect of another wave of stay at home orders this fall.

Which all leads me to think that a "rational" market would have had a bounce today...but not the whopping 7% we saw....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on April 06, 2020, 04:06:17 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 06, 2020, 03:49:12 PM

I didn't say the market can't respond positively. But there has been a large bounce on little to no positive data. There is no reason to believe that the economy will have a chance to return to normal within the next 6 months.

And that new normal will be at a significantly declined reference point.

Before there was any COVID, many were saying the market was overpriced and needed a 10-15% correction.

To me, it shows that the stock market is no longer rational. I honestly don't think it has been for awhile.

So you're saying the market needed a 10-15% haircut, PLUS whatever impact COVID has on top of that?  Markets often don't cool off and backfill the overpriced air pocket they were rising on until there is a reason or a black swan.

Also, from top to bottom, the market (SPY/SPY) dropped 35%.  50% retracements of moves are exceedingly common on both daily, weekly, and monthly timeframes.  A 50% retracement of the move would be 2800 on the SPX.  Working up to that level and then making new lows beyond the low of 2200 is very likely and fundamentally matches market behavior over decades.  The market was irrational at its peaks, I don't think what we've seen is anything particularly so.  Clearly you had no issue when the market would puke daily on Cuomo sharing information that wasn't new, shocking, or at all divergent from models or projections.  Yet when the market bounces after an 8% weekly decline on news that NYC cases have flattened for multiple days, beyond simply a bounce after tons of red, then its "irrational", got it.

Not for nothing, you've been one of the more bearish and grim voices on COVID here, which is fine and I'm not begrudging your opinion and analysis.  But calling out market perception and opinions of the situation, with a daily market view, irrational cause they don't match your own and have any positivity in them is pretty self involved.

The Fed also is backstopping the market with significant capital which gives it some stabilizing strength, that's just fact, that's not irrational.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Chili on April 06, 2020, 04:17:07 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on April 06, 2020, 04:06:17 PM

So you're saying the market needed a 10-15% haircut, PLUS whatever impact COVID has on top of that?  Markets often don't cool off and backfill the overpriced air pocket they were rising on until there is a reason or a black swan.

Also, from top to bottom, the market (SPY/SPY) dropped 35%.  50% retracements of moves are exceedingly common on both daily, weekly, and monthly timeframes.  A 50% retracement of the move would be 2800 on the SPX.  Working up to that level and then making new lows beyond the low of 2200 is very likely and fundamentally matches market behavior over decades.  The market was irrational at its peaks, I don't think what we've seen is anything particularly so.  Clearly you had no issue when the market would puke daily on Cuomo sharing information that wasn't new, shocking, or at all divergent from models or projections.  Yet when the market bounces after an 8% weekly decline on news that NYC cases have flattened for multiple days, beyond simply a bounce after tons of red, then its "irrational", got it.

Not for nothing, you've been one of the more bearish and grim voices on COVID here, which is fine and I'm not begrudging your opinion and analysis.  But calling out market perception and opinions of the situation, with a daily market view, irrational cause they don't match your own and have any positivity in them is pretty self involved.

The Fed also is backstopping the market with significant capital which gives it some stabilizing strength, that's just fact, that's not irrational.

I think you're getting overly bullish on this. Today in NYC 13 flights took off the area airports. Right now, the national restaurant association is thinking 13% of the countries nations will never reopen - and that's if things don't get worse. Going into March the only sector of the economy that was doing well was the service sector. Everything else was down. Now, the service industry just get both legs chopped off at the femur and people expect it to start running again come May / June. I am still targeting 2200. Thankfully I exited equities at 3250. No need to rush to catch the falling knife.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 06, 2020, 04:22:22 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on April 06, 2020, 04:06:17 PM

So you're saying the market needed a 10-15% haircut, PLUS whatever impact COVID has on top of that?  Markets often don't cool off and backfill the overpriced air pocket they were rising on until there is a reason or a black swan.

Also, from top to bottom, the market (SPY/SPY) dropped 35%.  50% retracements of moves are exceedingly common on both daily, weekly, and monthly timeframes.  A 50% retracement of the move would be 2800 on the SPX.  Working up to that level and then making new lows beyond the low of 2200 is very likely and fundamentally matches market behavior over decades.  The market was irrational at its peaks, I don't think what we've seen is anything particularly so.  Clearly you had no issue when the market would puke daily on Cuomo sharing information that wasn't new, shocking, or at all divergent from models or projections.  Yet when the market bounces after an 8% weekly decline on news that NYC cases have flattened for multiple days, beyond simply a bounce after tons of red, then its "irrational", got it.

Not for nothing, you've been one of the more bearish and grim voices on COVID here, which is fine and I'm not begrudging your opinion and analysis.  But calling out market perception and opinions of the situation, with a daily market view, irrational cause they don't match your own and have any positivity in them is pretty self involved.

The Fed also is backstopping the market with significant capital which gives it some stabilizing strength, that's just fact, that's not irrational.

Wags

Markets that move faster, slower, or in a direction people disagree with are referred to as irrational. Easier than saying “I was wrong (irrational?) on the market”.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 06, 2020, 04:26:14 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 06, 2020, 04:22:22 PM

Wags

Markets that move faster, slower, or in a direction people disagree with are referred to as irrational. Easier than saying “I was wrong (irrational?) on the market”.

The market has been irrational for weeks.  I don’t today is any more explainable than any other.  These companies do not fluctuate in value this much. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on April 06, 2020, 04:38:56 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 06, 2020, 03:20:35 PM

Was just stunned watching clip from yesterday’s dog and pony show where Trump refused to let Fauci speak about his snake oil solution.

Peter Navarro said he trusts Trump’s intuition over science.

Really. Those are the people in charge.

While you are busy bashing away...you better read this...you'll dismiss it, I know, but notice this Rep is a Democrat...

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2020/04/06/democrat-karen-whitsett-coronavirus-hydroxychloroquine-trump/2955430001/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on April 06, 2020, 04:40:54 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on April 06, 2020, 04:06:17 PM

The Fed also is backstopping the market with significant capital which gives it some stabilizing strength, that's just fact, that's not irrational.

I own plenty of equities but this is my concern.  The market is being propped up by the Fed... near zero rates,  unlimited liquidity,  now buying corporate bonds.  Then add trillions of fiscal stimulus.

A large part of the move of the markets over the past several years was due to stock buybacks.  Financial engineering made things look better versus real organic growth.  Now many companies have huge debt burdens.

Sooner or later this stuff must get unwound.... Fed balance sheets,  corporate balance sheets, etc..

Let's just hope it happens in an orderly manner.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on April 06, 2020, 04:41:17 PM

Quote from: Chili on April 06, 2020, 04:17:07 PM

I think you're getting overly bullish on this. Today in NYC 13 flights took off the area airports. Right now, the national restaurant association is thinking 13% of the countries nations will never reopen - and that's if things don't get worse. Going into March the only sector of the economy that was doing well was the service sector. Everything else was down. Now, the service industry just get both legs chopped off at the femur and people expect it to start running again come May / June. I am still targeting 2200. Thankfully I exited equities at 3250. No need to rush to catch the falling knife.

Where did I say I was bullish?  I said I expected a bit more upside and then a move back down and likely lower than earlier in March.  I was more reacting to this idea that the market being substantially green in a day makes no sense. I think the market moved enough down on its "shock the system" devaluation move down, so working back up absent new unexpected shocks make sense to a certain level.  Indications things have slowed or steadied will expedite that from time to time, like today.  Then its up to actual figures to bring us down, instead of expectations.  Some companies will have weathered the storm better than expected, some much worse.  As those become apparent, we will get our continuation lower IMO.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 06, 2020, 04:22:22 PM

Wags

Markets that move faster, slower, or in a direction people disagree with are referred to as irrational. Easier than saying “I was wrong (irrational?) on the market”.

This I agree with.  Markets aren't rational and havent been for decades.  Buybacks, Fed invervention, algo high frequency trading, etc... have removed the traditional idea of rational and fair markets.  But I don't like "irrational" being tossed out when it doesn't do what you expect.  I don't care if you're a day trader, casual investor, or Benjamin Graham or Ray Dalio.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 06, 2020, 04:43:36 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 06, 2020, 02:28:47 PM

Boris Johnson moved to ICU.  Trending in the wrong direction for him.

Let me start by saying that I obviously don't wish sickness on him or anybody else, and I hope he can beat this and have a full recovery.

Having said that ...

He is a science denier who just a couple weeks ago was bragging about shaking hands with COVID-19 patients and vowing to continue to do so.

It simply underscores how dangerous these leaders can be -- to themselves and to others -- when they devalue science and downplay deadly illnesses.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 06, 2020, 04:48:42 PM

Quote from: muguru on April 06, 2020, 04:38:56 PM

While you are busy bashing away...you better read this...you'll dismiss it, I know, but notice this Rep is a Democrat...

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2020/04/06/democrat-karen-whitsett-coronavirus-hydroxychloroquine-trump/2955430001/

I am glad she is doing well, and it's nice that Trump could have a role in saving a human life.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 06, 2020, 05:30:42 PM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on April 06, 2020, 04:40:54 PM

I own plenty of equities but this is my concern.  The market is being propped up by the Fed... near zero rates,  unlimited liquidity,  now buying corporate bonds.  Then add trillions of fiscal stimulus.

A large part of the move of the markets over the past several years was due to stock buybacks.  Financial engineering made things look better versus real organic growth.  Now many companies have huge debt burdens.

Sooner or later this stuff must get unwound.... Fed balance sheets,  corporate balance sheets, etc..

Let's just hope it happens in an orderly manner.

Why hasn't everyone asked how we're going to pay for all this?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 06, 2020, 05:34:54 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on April 06, 2020, 02:16:02 PM

So the market isn't allowed to be green until the virus is completely eradicated?...The market is a discounting and forecasting mechanism as a whole.  Its forward looking.

I certainly wouldn't say that it isn't allowed a green day, but I do think the magnitude of the up move today was surprising. The states that shut down early with stay-at-home orders are seeing results three weeks later, which is as predicted and a very good thing.

But, since we still have 8 or 9 states that have yet to shut down, and a number more where it is being lightly followed such as Florida and Georgia (where inexplicably the Governor decided to re-open public beaches), it seems to me we are going to have a long, rolling peak.

The market reacted to the fact that social distancing works, but IMO it is acting like the whole country acted unison.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on April 06, 2020, 05:36:15 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 06, 2020, 05:30:42 PM

Why hasn't everyone asked how we're going to pay for all this?

Economists would state the time for the Federal Government to loosen their belts are at times of crisis.  Then tighten when things are good.  The problem is that nobody at the Federal level wants to tighten even in good times.  Ever.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 06, 2020, 05:40:16 PM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on April 06, 2020, 05:36:15 PM

Economists would state the time for the Federal Government to loosen their belts are at times of crisis.  Then tighten when things are good.  The problem is that nobody at the Federal level wants to tighten even in good times.  Ever.

Eh

Depends who is asking for the loosening/tightening or what thing is being asked for

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 06, 2020, 05:44:38 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 06, 2020, 04:43:36 PM

Let me start by saying that I obviously don't wish sickness on him or anybody else, and I hope he can beat this and have a full recovery.

Having said that ...

He is a science denier who just a couple weeks ago was bragging about shaking hands with COVID-19 patients and vowing to continue to do so.

It simply underscores how dangerous these leaders can be -- to themselves and to others -- when they devalue science and downplay deadly illnesses.

So you don’t wish illness on him...but you kinda do, and it serves him right.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 06, 2020, 05:45:53 PM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on April 06, 2020, 05:36:15 PM

Economists would state the time for the Federal Government to loosen their belts are at times of crisis.  Then tighten when things are good.  The problem is that nobody at the Federal level wants to tighten even in good times.  Ever.

Spot on.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 06, 2020, 05:53:37 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 06, 2020, 05:44:38 PM

So you don’t wish illness on him...but you kinda do, and it serves him right.

Character revealed....yet again.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 06, 2020, 06:12:04 PM

I hope Boris pulls through.

I also hope he uses his experience to get Brits to take the physical distancing guidelines seriously.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 06, 2020, 07:02:26 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 06, 2020, 05:44:38 PM

So you don’t wish illness on him...but you kinda do, and it serves him right.

I absolutely did not say that, Lenny. I'm not surprised that ZFB went there, but I'm disappointed you did.

I don't wish bad things on other people.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 06, 2020, 07:08:49 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 06, 2020, 05:44:38 PM

So you don’t wish illness on him...but you kinda do, and it serves him right.

Yes if you refuse to take precautions, get sick yourself knowing that there's a 14 day incubation where you likely infected others and end up giving them permanent damage or killing them then you damn well deserve to get it. And it should be criminal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 06, 2020, 07:10:40 PM

Quote from: muguru on April 05, 2020, 12:07:32 PM

I hate to rain on your parade and your agenda...somehow you will spin this, or just deny it, I'm sure..

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/public_approval_of_president_trumps_handling_of_the_coronavirus-7088.html

Because you said you only care about the top line, and because I'm sure you want the latest news ...

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 06, 2020, 07:46:29 PM

HHS OIG Report: Hospitals trying to make their own disinfectant, running low on TP and food, and trying to get masks from nail salons and auto body shops.

Where is the leadership? Or the accountability?

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/04/06/827766022/hospitals-are-sourcing-masks-from-autobody-shops-hhs-inspector-general-finds

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on April 06, 2020, 07:54:17 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 06, 2020, 07:50:20 PM

“Having said that...”

Wow bud. You’re truly a sick individual. May God have mercy on your satanic soul.

Literally nothing that follows suggests ill will, only the sad and ironic outcome that comes from people who don't believe anything but their subjective truths.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 06, 2020, 08:07:30 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on April 06, 2020, 07:08:49 PM

Yes if you refuse to take precautions, get sick yourself knowing that there's a 14 day incubation where you likely infected others and end up giving them permanent damage or killing them then you damn well deserve to get it. And it should be criminal.

Cura personalis.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on April 06, 2020, 08:28:46 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 06, 2020, 07:10:40 PM

Because you said you only care about the top line, and because I'm sure you want the latest news ...

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html

That's fine, he is still not losing to Sleepy Joe..He doesn't even know what day of the week it is half the time.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 06, 2020, 08:35:45 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on April 06, 2020, 08:07:30 PM

Cura personalis.

Yes caring about the general public more than ignorant f*cks is indeed revealing my character.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 06, 2020, 08:42:48 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on April 06, 2020, 08:35:45 PM

Yes caring about the general public more than ignorant f*cks is indeed revealing my character.

Jesus is watching you.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on April 06, 2020, 08:47:29 PM

The key is, if the tides were turned, would the same thought even have crossed ones mind? 

If that were one of your family, friend or same “side”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 06, 2020, 08:52:31 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 06, 2020, 08:47:29 PM

The key is, if the tides were turned, would the same thought even have crossed ones mind? 

If that were one of your family, friend or same “side”

I would find it ironic if anyone who bragged about flaunting public health advice in the midst of a pandemic died during that pandemic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 06, 2020, 08:57:47 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 06, 2020, 07:46:29 PM

HHS OIG Report: Hospitals trying to make their own disinfectant, running low on TP and food, and trying to get masks from nail salons and auto body shops.

Where is the leadership? Or the accountability?

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/04/06/827766022/hospitals-are-sourcing-masks-from-autobody-shops-hhs-inspector-general-finds

"Leadership" apparently is yelling at reporters.Thank God for governors or this country would be doomed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 06, 2020, 09:02:15 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on April 06, 2020, 08:42:48 PM

Jesus is watching you.

Do you believe in the death penalty ZFB?

What about if a guy during the AIDS crisis continued to have unprotected sex, was exposed and refused to get tested then continued to have more unprotected sex spreading it around till he had symptoms then he wanted all the sympathy? Would you feel bad for him then? I sure wouldn't. I don't have time for people who defend gross negligence because their political views line up with that person.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 06, 2020, 09:08:25 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on April 06, 2020, 09:02:15 PM

Do you believe in the death penalty ZFB?

What about if a guy during the AIDS crisis continued to have unprotected sex, was exposed and refused to get tested then continued to have more unprotected sex spreading it around till he had symptoms then he wanted all the sympathy? Would you feel bad for him then? I sure wouldn't. I don't have time for people who defend gross negligence because their political views line up with that person.

Ok, kid.  You'll grow up some day.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 06, 2020, 09:09:03 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 06, 2020, 07:46:29 PM

HHS OIG Report: Hospitals trying to make their own disinfectant, running low on TP and food, and trying to get masks from nail salons and auto body shops.

Where is the leadership? Or the accountability?

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/04/06/827766022/hospitals-are-sourcing-masks-from-autobody-shops-hhs-inspector-general-finds

Solution was pretty simple. Attack the IG. I don't expect her to be long for her job.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 06, 2020, 09:15:14 PM

Here's the headline in the Racine Journal Times:

If your absentee ballot has not arrived yet, you can still vote in-person Tuesday

So what is a good comp?
1) Boris Johnson suggesting "Go ahead and vote:!
2) Hometown newspaper suggesting Russian Roulette.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 06, 2020, 09:17:03 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 06, 2020, 07:02:26 PM

I absolutely did not say that, Lenny. I'm not surprised that ZFB went there, but I'm disappointed you did.

I don't wish bad things on other people.

I believe you Mike, but someone as partisan as you should be careful.

Your post, with it’s ... followed by a personal attack definitely left the impression that you feel the Prime Minister of England is a total moron who had it coming.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on April 06, 2020, 09:18:19 PM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on April 06, 2020, 05:36:15 PM

Economists would state the time for the Federal Government to loosen their belts are at times of crisis.  Then tighten when things are good.  The problem is that nobody at the Federal level wants to tighten even in good times.  Ever.

"President Clinton oversaw a very robust economy during his tenure. The U.S. had strong economic growth (around 4% annually) and record job creation (22.7 million). He raised taxes on higher income taxpayers early in his first term and cut defense spending and welfare, which contributed to a rise in revenue and decline in spending relative to the size of the economy. These factors helped bring the United States federal budget into surplus from the fiscal year 1998 to 2001, the only surplus years after 1969. Debt held by the public, a primary measure of the national debt, fell relative to GDP throughout his two terms, from 47.8% in 1993 to 31.4% in 2001.[1]"
Wiki

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 06, 2020, 09:21:11 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on April 06, 2020, 09:08:25 PM

Ok, kid.  You'll grow up some day.

Smart response. Really mature, don't address the argument or comparison just insult me. While you're at it do you want to make your usual juvenile sexist innuendo so you and JB can giggle? And you call me "kid"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 06, 2020, 09:28:28 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 06, 2020, 09:17:03 PM

I believe you Mike, but someone as partisan as you should be careful.

Your post, with it’s ... followed by a personal attack definitely left the impression that you feel the Prime Minister of England is a total moron who had it coming.

It was not a personal attack, nor do I think Johnson is a moron.

I feel he is a science denier and a political opportunist.

And now I feel badly for him that he is sick, and I honestly wish him a speedy and full recovery.

I also hope he didn't make dozens of others sick (or worse) with his political grandstanding.

Lenny, I think you'll agree with me that it's OK to criticize a world leader for his or her words and deeds and not wish him or her to be physically ill, right?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on April 06, 2020, 09:28:57 PM

Quote from: Mutaman on April 06, 2020, 09:18:19 PM

"President Clinton oversaw a very robust economy during his tenure. The U.S. had strong economic growth (around 4% annually) and record job creation (22.7 million). He raised taxes on higher income taxpayers early in his first term and cut defense spending and welfare, which contributed to a rise in revenue and decline in spending relative to the size of the economy. These factors helped bring the United States federal budget into surplus from the fiscal year 1998 to 2001, the only surplus years after 1969. Debt held by the public, a primary measure of the national debt, fell relative to GDP throughout his two terms, from 47.8% in 1993 to 31.4% in 2001.[1]"
Wiki

The good old days when the economy was truly humming.  Though, it wasn't like spending was cut.  It was just that the economy grew so much tax revenues went up huge versus spending.

Though point taken.  Since 1965 we have had five years of surplus.  That is 5 out of 55.  So I should not have said "Ever".

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 06, 2020, 09:30:17 PM

Guys (and part guys/girls as we have several in this thread)... help my simplistic thoughts evolve...

Some are cheering NYC 'plateauing or going down'... I just don't get it. If we make everyone stay in their homes, isn't that the obvious result?

My concern is we're going to go through a series of re-SPURTS...

If we don't have a vaccine (supposedly a long ways off) or testing and plans to address the results (when does this happen?), haven't we just pushed off the infections and deaths?

The cure will be worse than the problem itself. That's a #donedeal. We're just delaying stuff at this point.

Unless there is a miracle cure and/or a huge ramp up in testing and actions based on those results, we're screwed for a long time.

Please help me if I'm missing something.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 06, 2020, 09:35:25 PM

PS - personal opinion. This is the end of Earth. It's been fun.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 06, 2020, 09:43:50 PM

Quote from: muguru on April 06, 2020, 08:28:46 PM

That's fine, he is still not losing to Sleepy Joe.

You might be right.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: BM1090 on April 06, 2020, 09:45:25 PM

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1247350512078532610

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 06, 2020, 09:46:09 PM

And now SK is having re-infections, return of infection or double false negatives.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8192015/amp/Fifty-one-recovered-coronavirus-patients-test-positive-South-Korea.html?ito=amp_twitter_share-top&__twitter_impression=true (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8192015/amp/Fifty-one-recovered-coronavirus-patients-test-positive-South-Korea.html?ito=amp_twitter_share-top&__twitter_impression=true)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 06, 2020, 09:52:46 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 06, 2020, 09:30:17 PM

Guys (and part guys/girls as we have several in this thread)... help my simplistic thoughts evolve...

Some are cheering NYC 'plateauing or going down'... I just don't get it. If we make everyone stay in their homes, isn't that the obvious result?

My concern is we're going to go through a series of re-SPURTS...

If we don't have a vaccine (supposedly a long ways off) or testing and plans to address the results (when does this happen?), haven't we just pushed off the infections and deaths?

The cure will be worse than the problem itself. That's a #donedeal. We're just delaying stuff at this point.

Unless there is a miracle cure and/or a huge ramp up in testing and actions based on those results, we're screwed for a long time.

Please help me if I'm missing something.

Lots of people are going to die of COVID no matter which path we choose. That is a given.

But slowing the rate of infections will still save many lives, because if we just let it spread uncontrolled, it would overwhelm the healthcare system to the point where people could literally be dying in the streets. We are on the razor’s edge already - reopening the economy now would turn a lethal infection into a MUCH MORE lethal one.

In short, lots of deaths either way. But many, many less if we can slow the pace.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 06, 2020, 09:57:44 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 06, 2020, 09:52:46 PM

Lots of people are going to die of COVID no matter which path we choose. That is a given.

But slowing the rate of infections will still save many lives, because if we just let it spread uncontrolled, it would overwhelm the healthcare system to the point where people could literally be dying in the streets. We are on the razor’s edge already - reopening the economy now would turn a lethal infection into a MUCH MORE lethal one.

In short, lots of deaths either way. But many, many less if we can slow the pace.

How do we slow it? Open, let more die... close up... open, let more die...

I don't understand the path...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 06, 2020, 10:10:53 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 06, 2020, 09:57:44 PM

How do we slow it? Open, let more die... close up... open, let more die...

I don't understand the path...

Yes you do understand it. Open, close, open, close.

People are still gonna die, but they will at least have the opportunity to get the best medical care we are able to offer. And doing that will decrease the mortality rate as much as we can.

Think about it this way - the other alternatives are either: (1) keep everything shut until a vaccine is developed; or (2) just open the floodgates.

#1 would likely do so much damage to the economy that people might be dying of starvation (think Great Depression).

#2 would overwhelm the healthcare system to the point where people couldn’t even get in hospital doors and die in the streets (think The Plague by Camus).

Our current path is essentially trying to thread the needle between #1 and #2, minimizing human suffering and death as much as we can. But make no mistake: there is no “good” choice. We are simply trying to find the “least bad” path.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 06, 2020, 10:11:05 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on April 06, 2020, 08:42:48 PM

Jesus is watching you.

No, not really

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 06, 2020, 10:21:17 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 06, 2020, 09:57:44 PM

How do we slow it? Open, let more die... close up... open, let more die...

I don't understand the path...

Medicine + herd immunity, then eventually a vaccine.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on April 06, 2020, 10:30:58 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 06, 2020, 09:43:50 PM

You might be right.

or, he might be wrong.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on April 06, 2020, 10:34:43 PM

In a direct memo dated January 29, 2020, Peter Navarro told Trump that COVID-19 could cost 500,000 American lives and Trillions of dollars. On March 26th, 2020, Trump said nobody could have predicted this.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/us/politics/navarro-warning-trump-coronavirus.html#click=https://t.co/U1BwVCMG8l

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 06, 2020, 10:42:09 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 06, 2020, 09:57:44 PM

How do we slow it? Open, let more die... close up... open, let more die...

I don't understand the path...

We’re not going to shut the economy down for 12-18 months waiting for a vaccine. The depression that would ensue would be worse than what Covid can do. I think the real hope is that mitigation flattens/slows the disease so that a) the health system isn’t totally overwhelmed in the short term and b) we buy enough time to find/develop a real therapeutic drug that will save lives while we await a vaccine.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 06, 2020, 10:46:42 PM

Quote from: Mutaman on April 06, 2020, 10:30:58 PM

or, he might be wrong.

True. That would seem to be the other possibility. Unless JB (aka, Jesus' spokesperson) is right and these are the End Times.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on April 06, 2020, 10:48:18 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 06, 2020, 09:35:25 PM

PS - personal opinion. This is the end of Earth. It's been fun.

Pretty much where I've been since March 10th.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 06, 2020, 11:37:53 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 06, 2020, 09:17:03 PM

I believe you Mike, but someone as partisan as you should be careful.

Your post, with it’s ... followed by a personal attack definitely left the impression that you feel the Prime Minister of England is a total moron who had it coming.

To me it was more of a, "kid who plays with matches shouldn't be surprised that the house burned down" sort of thing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 06, 2020, 11:42:48 PM

Quote

author=Jay Bee link=topic=59849.msg1230178#msg1230178 date=1586226617]
Guys (and part guys/girls as we have several in this thread)... help my simplistic thoughts evolve...

Some are cheering NYC 'plateauing or going down'... I just don't get it. If we make everyone stay in their homes, isn't that the obvious result?

My concern is we're going to go through a series of re-SPURTS...

If we don't have a vaccine (supposedly a long ways off) or testing and plans to address the results (when does this happen?), haven't we just pushed off the infections and deaths?

The cure will be worse than the problem itself. That's a #donedeal. We're just delaying stuff at this point.

Unless there is a miracle cure and/or a huge ramp up in testing and actions based on those results, we're screwed for a long time.

Please help me if I'm missing something.

We have explained this several times. 

The way we get through this is testing.  I've been saying it for months now.  You test people and find out who has it and who doesn't, and who has already had it.  Those who have it stay the eff home.  Those who don't have it, self quarantine.  Those who have had it and recovered can go the eff back to work.  We continue on this path until we have a vaccine or another treatment arises.

Sorry for the bad news, but when we screw around and do half assed quarantines this is what the eff happens.  We get hit with serious pain and eff up our effing economy.  Take this ish seriously and berate those who don't.  Be mad as hell at them because they are the ones effing up the economy at this point.

Edited to remove snark.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 06, 2020, 11:47:13 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 06, 2020, 11:37:53 PM

To me it was more of a, "kid who plays with matches shouldn't be surprised that the house burned down" sort of thing.

IOW, he’s a moron and he had it coming.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 06, 2020, 11:48:27 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 06, 2020, 09:17:03 PM

I believe you Mike, but someone as partisan as you should be careful.

Your post, with it’s ... followed by a personal attack definitely left the impression that you feel the Prime Minister of England is a total moron who had it coming.

What is your opinion of a science denier who ignorantly infected his pregnant girlfriend? If he wants to refuse any precautions, he gets what he deserves. But his actions (or lack thereof) have caused many people to suffer and die in the U.K. He put his unborn child at risk just so he could act like a tough guy.

I don’t want anyone to die of this virus, including Mr. Johnson, but to pretend he is in the ICU because of anything other than his own stupidity is nonsense.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 06, 2020, 11:55:55 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 06, 2020, 11:48:27 PM

What is your opinion of a science denier who ignorantly infected his pregnant girlfriend? If he wants to refuse any precautions, he gets what he deserves. But his actions (or lack thereof) have caused many people to suffer and die in the U.K. He put his unborn child at risk just so he could act like a tough guy.

I don’t want anyone to die of this virus, including Mr. Johnson, but to pretend he is in the ICU because of anything other than his own stupidity is nonsense.

So now he’s a murderer and a moron who only got a little of what he deserves.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 06, 2020, 11:58:24 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 06, 2020, 11:47:13 PM

IOW, he’s a moron and he had it coming.

No, two different things.  Had it coming implies that he deserved it and that Mike desire for it to happen.

Desire and intent are important.  As a lawyer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 07, 2020, 12:06:24 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 06, 2020, 11:55:55 PM

So now he’s a murderer and a moron who only got a little of what he deserves.

No, he is not a murderer, but his inaction and denial caused people to die.

Yes, he is a moron.

You didn’t answer my question, though. What do you think of a guy who showed no concern over giving the virus to his pregnant girlfriend?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 07, 2020, 12:11:33 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 06, 2020, 11:58:24 PM

No, two different things.  Had it coming implies that he deserved it and that Mike desire for it to happen.

Desire and intent are important.  As a lawyer.

Potato, potahto.

When this threads sticks to the virus it’s informative. Brings out the best in some very bright people.

When it devolves into politics, it turns ugly and hateful. Brings out the worst in all of us.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 07, 2020, 12:24:24 AM

Quote from: Jockey on April 07, 2020, 12:06:24 AM

No, he is not a murderer, but his inaction and denial caused people to die.

Yes, he is a moron.

You didn’t answer my question, though. What do you think of a guy who showed no concern over giving the virus to his pregnant girlfriend?

It’s not a fair question as you don’t know your accusation to be true.

Here’s a question for you. What do You think of a guy who is so full of hatred he can’t see straight? Who leads with his biases and gerrymanders the facts to fit them?

I’ll leave this thread now. The political hijacking is just so over the top it’s disgusting.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 07, 2020, 04:46:56 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 07, 2020, 12:24:24 AM

It’s not a fair question as you don’t know your accusation to be true.

Here’s a question for you. What do You think of a guy who is so full of hatred he can’t see straight? Who leads with his biases and gerrymanders the facts to fit them?

I’ll leave this thread now. The political hijacking is just so over the top it’s disgusting.

You realize you’re stoking the fires right?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 07, 2020, 05:35:51 AM

In my opinion this article shows the benefit of better testing and contact tracing.  It can be what saves rural counties. 

 https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/04/06/where-clusters-highest-density-coronavirus-cases-deaths-are-located (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/04/06/where-clusters-highest-density-coronavirus-cases-deaths-are-located)

Mass taking action on contact tracing

 https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/491269-health-experts-call-for-roosevelt-style-programs-to-kill-virus-revive (https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/491269-health-experts-call-for-roosevelt-style-programs-to-kill-virus-revive)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 07, 2020, 07:19:15 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 07, 2020, 05:35:51 AM

In my opinion this article shows the benefit of better testing and contact tracing.  It can be what saves rural counties. 

 https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/04/06/where-clusters-highest-density-coronavirus-cases-deaths-are-located (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/04/06/where-clusters-highest-density-coronavirus-cases-deaths-are-located)

Mass taking action on contact tracing

 https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/491269-health-experts-call-for-roosevelt-style-programs-to-kill-virus-revive (https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/491269-health-experts-call-for-roosevelt-style-programs-to-kill-virus-revive)

Good stuff Frenns.

And appreciate your ability to stick to the topic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 07, 2020, 07:35:50 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 06, 2020, 11:42:48 PM

The way we get through this is testing.  I've been saying it for months now.  You test people and find out who has it and who doesn't, and who has already had it.  Those who have it stay the eff home.  Those who don't have it, self quarantine.  Those who have had it and recovered can go the eff back to work.  We continue on this path until we have a vaccine or another treatment arises.

What if a bunch of people get it again and again?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on April 07, 2020, 07:50:40 AM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 07, 2020, 07:35:50 AM

What if a bunch of people get it again and again?

So far we believe you become immune once you get it and survive. Unlike the flu this doesn't mutate nearly as much

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Eldon on April 07, 2020, 07:55:35 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 07, 2020, 12:24:24 AM

It’s not a fair question as you don’t know your accusation to be true.

Here’s a question for you. What do You think of a guy who is so full of hatred he can’t see straight? Who leads with his biases and gerrymanders the facts to fit them?

I’ll leave this thread now. The political hijacking is just so over the top it’s disgusting.

That's a great phrase.  I'm going to steal it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Elonsmusk on April 07, 2020, 08:33:02 AM

Quote from: tower912 on April 06, 2020, 11:43:59 AM

Chatting with an army veteran about the anti malaria drug.  He said he was given it before shipping out to Afghanistan.   He, and many of his brethren experienced night terrors.   He said he would take his chances with the Covid rather than take that medicine again.

Side effects are a thing.

There are significant difference between chloroquine and hydroxycholorquine as it relates to side effects.  Both are anti-malarial drugs.  Hydroxy is virtually side-effect free, and there is evidence that it is helping stem the symptoms and reverse Corona effects.  Meds are written off-label all of the time.  The safety/efficacy profile of hydroxy is stellar.  There is virtually NO risk in taking it.

End of the day, if Trump didn't tout hydroxycholorquine as a potential game changer, EVERYONE would be hopeful that it can help. But because he did, many are actually HOPING that it doesn't help.  Illustrates how deep the disdain and hatred for Trump is among some.

There is hypocrisy from those ripping the President "He didn't act soon enough,"  to those same people making statements of "Issuing a travel ban from China is racist and xenophobic."  As for why we've had so many cases?  Duh.  Travel to the U.S. from around the globe exceeds that of any other country.  Of course we were going to be most impacted.

The politicizing of this tragedy is tragic and embarrassing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 07, 2020, 08:37:28 AM

Quote from: Elonsmusk on April 07, 2020, 08:33:02 AM

There are significant difference between chloroquine and hydroxycholorquine as it relates to side effects.  Both are anti-malarial drugs.  Hydroxy is virtually side-effect free, and there is evidence that it is helping stem the symptoms and reverse Corona effects.  Meds are written off-label all of the time.  The safety/efficacy profile of hydroxy is stellar.  There is virtually NO risk in taking it.

End of the day, if Trump didn't tout hydroxycholorquine as a potential game changer, EVERYONE would be hopeful that it can help. But because he did, many are actually HOPING that it doesn't help.  Illustrates how deep the disdain and hatred for Trump is among some.

There is hypocrisy from those ripping the President "He didn't act soon enough,"  to those same people making statements of "Issuing a travel ban from China is racist and xenophobic."  As for why we've had so many cases?  Duh.  Travel to the U.S. from around the globe exceeds that of any other country.  Of course we were going to be most impacted.

The politicizing of this tragedy is tragic and embarrassing.

Can everyone keep their political opinions to somewhere else.  The second half of this post is case in point. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 07, 2020, 08:38:01 AM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on April 07, 2020, 07:50:40 AM

So far we believe you become immune once you get it and survive. Unlike the flu this doesn't mutate nearly as much

Look into South Korea.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 07, 2020, 08:38:47 AM

I hope it works.   I think you are a little optimistic that there are 'no side effects'.   It would be wonderful if it were a panacea, but the data so far (not anecdotes) says it may help some people.   
I am confident that a consistent treatment regimen will be worked out and that an effective vaccine will be fast tracked.   

Be safe.   Trust the process.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 07, 2020, 08:42:32 AM

Quote from: Elonsmusk on April 07, 2020, 08:33:02 AM

End of the day, if Trump didn't tout hydroxycholorquine as a potential game changer, EVERYONE would be hopeful that it can help. But because he did, many are actually HOPING that it doesn't help.  Illustrates how deep the disdain and hatred for Trump is among some.

Yeah that's not happening. Everyone hopes somethng that simple works, but the evidence suggests it doesn't.

Quote from: Elonsmusk on April 07, 2020, 08:33:02 AM

There is hypocrisy from those ripping the President "He didn't act soon enough,"  to those same people making statements of "Issuing a travel ban from China is racist and xenophobic."  As for why we've had so many cases?  Duh.  Travel to the U.S. from around the globe exceeds that of any other country.  Of course we were going to be most impacted.

You are ignoring objective evidence. Yes, Trump did some good things and continues to do some good things, but his administration ignored this for too long despite being given warnings to the contrary.  Those delays were incredibly harmful.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 07, 2020, 08:43:04 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on April 07, 2020, 08:38:01 AM

Look into South Korea.

Do you have an article or study that points to reinfection?  I haven’t seen anything in that regard since Japan I’m the early days. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 07, 2020, 08:43:28 AM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on April 07, 2020, 07:50:40 AM

So far we believe you become immune once you get it and survive. Unlike the flu this doesn't mutate nearly as much

Who is we? Mfrs can’t even figure out if wearing a mask is wise.

There have been reports of people getting the virus a second time. Is it true? Is it rare? Don’t know. But to dismiss the possibility and not consider how we’d deal with that variable is foolish.

#LastDays

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 07, 2020, 08:44:24 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 07, 2020, 08:43:04 AM

Do you have an article or study that points to reinfection?  I haven’t seen anything in that regard since Japan I’m the early days.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8192015/amp/Fifty-one-recovered-coronavirus-patients-test-positive-South-Korea.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lighthouse 84 on April 07, 2020, 08:46:19 AM

Quote from: tower912 on April 07, 2020, 08:38:47 AM

I hope it works.   I think you are a little optimistic that there are 'no side effects'.   It would be wonderful if it were a panacea, but the data so far (not anecdotes) says it may help some people.   
I am confident that a consistent treatment regimen will be worked out and that an effective vaccine will be fast tracked.   

Be safe.   Trust Respect the process.

FIFY.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 07, 2020, 08:52:08 AM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 07, 2020, 08:44:24 AM

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8192015/amp/Fifty-one-recovered-coronavirus-patients-test-positive-South-Korea.html

Thanks.  This seemed similar to the Japan story.  Inconclusive but potentially worrisome. I hope there is a period of immunity with this.  Otherwise look out. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 07, 2020, 08:55:48 AM

Heart damage as well as lung damage
https://khn.org/news/mysterious-heart-damage-not-just-lung-troubles-befalling-covid-19-patients/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 07, 2020, 08:56:01 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 07, 2020, 08:52:08 AM

Thanks.  This seemed similar to the Japan story.  Inconclusive but potentially worrisome. I hope there is a period of immunity with this.  Otherwise look out.

I just read something that "the reinfection" is not reinfection just testing error.
I'd have to re-find the article.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 07, 2020, 09:03:07 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 07, 2020, 08:56:01 AM

I just read something that "the reinfection" is not reinfection just testing error.
I'd have to re-find the article.

How about this?

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-03-13/china-japan-korea-coronavirus-reinfection-test-positive

Scientists in and outside China agree that reinfection is a highly unlikely explanation for the patients who retest positive. They say testing errors are more likely to blame — either false negatives that resulted in patients being discharged too early, or false positives when they retested and were taken back into hospital.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 07, 2020, 09:07:31 AM

If this is the MLB's best option, live sports in front of crowds are months away.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29004498/mlb-union-focused-plan-allow-season-start-early-arizona

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 07, 2020, 09:08:31 AM

Quote from: MU82 on April 06, 2020, 04:43:36 PM

Let me start by saying that I obviously don't wish sickness on him or anybody else, and I hope he can beat this and have a full recovery.

Having said that ...

He is a science denier who just a couple weeks ago was bragging about shaking hands with COVID-19 patients and vowing to continue to do so.

It simply underscores how dangerous these leaders can be -- to themselves and to others -- when they devalue science and downplay deadly illnesses.

He is not a science denier.  This is a smear that the left uses in the same way the right smears us as anti capitalist.  You can do better than this.

Johnson, the science denier, hailed by academics and industry for science funding he pushed for. That isn’t the mark of a man who denies science. https://www.ft.com/content/a9f55188-28d1-11ea-9305-4234e74b0ef3

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 07, 2020, 09:27:36 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 07, 2020, 12:11:33 AM

Potato, potahto.

When this threads sticks to the virus it’s informative. Brings out the best in some very bright people.

When it devolves into politics, it turns ugly and hateful. Brings out the worst in all of us.

Potato, apple.

But you can read into it how you'd like.

Also, we agree.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 07, 2020, 09:30:17 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 07, 2020, 09:08:31 AM

He is not a science denier.  This is a smear that the left uses in the same way the right smears us as anti capitalist.  You can do better than this.

Johnson, the science denier, hailed by academics and industry for science funding he pushed for. That isn’t the mark of a man who denies science. https://www.ft.com/content/a9f55188-28d1-11ea-9305-4234e74b0ef3

YOU ARE SO TRANSPARENT, IF YOU'RE GOING TO TRY TO PRETEND TO BE SOMEONE ELSE, YOU NEED TO DO BETTER.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 07, 2020, 09:32:49 AM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 07, 2020, 07:35:50 AM

What if a bunch of people get it again and again?

Well, obviously that is bad.  But there is only sketchy evidence at best that it can happen.

As for a solution there, I don't have one.  And the only suggestion I can think of would not be awesome.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 07, 2020, 09:40:28 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 07, 2020, 09:08:31 AM

He is not a science denier.  This is a smear that the left uses in the same way the right smears us as anti capitalist.  You can do better than this.

Johnson, the science denier, hailed by academics and industry for science funding he pushed for. That isn’t the mark of a man who denies science. https://www.ft.com/content/a9f55188-28d1-11ea-9305-4234e74b0ef3

He was a science denier when it came to the coronavirus.

Scientists and infectious-disease experts specifically said folks should social distance and that they certainly shouldn't shake hands with infected people.

He not only ignored the science, he flaunted that he did so. He not only shook hands of infected people, he bragged that he would continue doing so.

Not sure why you would want to offer an incorrect defense of somebody who clearly and proudly denied the COVID-19 science.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 07, 2020, 09:51:17 AM

Quote from: Elonsmusk on April 07, 2020, 08:33:02 AM

There are significant difference between chloroquine and hydroxycholorquine as it relates to side effects.  Both are anti-malarial drugs.  Hydroxy is virtually side-effect free, and there is evidence that it is helping stem the symptoms and reverse Corona effects.  Meds are written off-label all of the time.  The safety/efficacy profile of hydroxy is stellar.  There is virtually NO risk in taking it.

They are different, but it is a bold-faced lie to say that hydroxychloroquine doesn't have side effects and there is "virtually" no risk in taking it, especially at the dosages being prescribed for COVID. For one, it can cause vision loss.

There is also very little evidence, that it is having an effect on COVID at all. The preliminary studies supportive of it are weak at best, and poorly designed studies. Some data has been contradictory, and even suggests it could make things worse in some cases.

Bottom line, we need to wait and see. The early data is not supportive of rushing out and giving this to everyone. Remember, if you give them this treatment, you often rule out then, other treatments that offer equal or better preliminary data.

Trust the scientists.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 07, 2020, 09:53:28 AM

Quote from: MU82 on April 07, 2020, 09:40:28 AM

He was a science denier when it came to the coronavirus.

Scientists and infectious-disease experts specifically said folks should social distance and that they certainly shouldn't shake hands with infected people.

He not only ignored the science, he flaunted that he did so. He not only shook hands of infected people, he bragged that he would continue doing so.

Not sure why you would want to offer an incorrect defense of somebody who clearly and proudly denied the COVID-19 science.

It's a pretty huge leap to go from "he ignored the advice of scientists" to "he's a science denier." 

Probably should not be hyperbolic with stuff like this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 07, 2020, 09:55:38 AM

I have an honest question, and I hope that my past involvement in my thread will speak for my good faith here.  My understanding for the last several weeks is that it is widely believed that a very pretty significant percentage of people are going to get this virus, and that the various steps we are taking (to a greater or lesser extent depending upon where you reside) are intended to "flatten the curve."  In other words, as I understand it, to slow the rate of infection so as to avoid overwhelming the health care system. The thought is that this will reduce the eventual death rate because people will receive better care and we will not be faced with deciding who gets the last ventilator. But the total number of infections likely would not be reduced all that much.

If that is the case, aren't things progressing fairly closely to plan? In order to get "through" this as quickly as possible, don't we want to flirt with the line of overwhelming the health care system without crossing it?  I understand that the health care system is being taxed, and I believe that is literally inevitable and unavoidable and to be expected.  But if cases are increasing but not to the point of collapse of the health care system, isn't that kind of the plan?

Because of my job, I'm acutely aware of the lack of PPE and am in contact with people every day who are really struggling because of that. The PPE situation is a total disaster.  So, I'm not talking about that.  It just seems to me that as shocking and disturbing as all of this is, it it is progressing according to the plans that were explained to me several weeks ago -- including on this board.  It seems to me that many of the people who understood this and appreciated the danger far earlier than I did -- and explained the entire concept of "flattening the curve" to me -- are now claiming that nothing is being done.  But from my vantage point, we're generally keeping things within the capacities of our (admittedly busy) health care system.

Am I completely crazy or wrong?  And I hope no one will characterize this as me being insensitive to those who are sick or dying. I don't intend it that way.  It's absolutely tragic. I'm just trying to understand where we are and where we are going.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 07, 2020, 10:02:34 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 07, 2020, 08:56:01 AM

I just read something that "the reinfection" is not reinfection just testing error.
I'd have to re-find the article.

It's been posted twice in this thread alone.

South Korea was giving the all clear to infected people that tested negative twice.  51 people are now testing positive again. 

Maybe rushing ineffective tests out early wasn't the right answer.  Reports that the chinese made tests were giving false negatives in 1 in 5 tests.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 07, 2020, 10:11:49 AM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 07, 2020, 09:55:38 AM

I have an honest question, and I hope that my past involvement in my thread will speak for my good faith here.  My understanding for the last several weeks is that it is widely believed that a very pretty significant percentage of people are going to get this virus, and that the various steps we are taking (to a greater or lesser extent depending upon where you reside) are intended to "flatten the curve."  In other words, as I understand it, to slow the rate of infection so as to avoid overwhelming the health care system. The thought is that this will reduce the eventual death rate because people will receive better care and we will not be faced with deciding who gets the last ventilator. But the total number of infections likely would not be reduced all that much.

If that is the case, aren't things progressing fairly closely to plan? In order to get "through" this as quickly as possible, don't we want to flirt with the line of overwhelming the health care system without crossing it?  I understand that the health care system is being taxed, and I believe that is literally inevitable and unavoidable and to be expected.  But if cases are increasing but not to the point of collapse of the health care system, isn't that kind of the plan?

Because of my job, I'm acutely aware of the lack of PPE and am in contact with people every day who are really struggling because of that. The PPE situation is a total disaster.  So, I'm not talking about that.  It just seems to me that as shocking and disturbing as all of this is, it it is progressing according to the plans that were explained to me several weeks ago -- including on this board.  It seems to me that many of the people who understood this and appreciated the danger far earlier than I did -- and explained the entire concept of "flattening the curve" to me -- are now claiming that nothing is being done.  But from my vantage point, we're generally keeping things within the capacities of our (admittedly busy) health care system.

Am I completely crazy or wrong?  And I hope no one will characterize this as me being insensitive to those who are sick or dying. I don't intend it that way.  It's absolutely tragic. I'm just trying to understand where we are and where we are going.

Yes, given where we are at this point, we are probably pretty close to the best we can do.

The backward-looking criticisms are mainly over the fact that our "best" would have been better if we had implemented testing earlier and more comprehensively. But you're right - given the hand we have right now, the "best" option is to flirt with the line between overwhelming the healthcare system and trashing the economy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 07, 2020, 10:21:20 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on April 07, 2020, 10:02:34 AM

It's been posted twice in this thread alone.

South Korea was giving the all clear to infected people that tested negative twice.  51 people are now testing positive again. 

Maybe rushing ineffective tests out early wasn't the right answer.  Reports that the chinese made tests were giving false negatives in 1 in 5 tests.

There is a lot in here....

Based on cases and deaths SK is still one of the models on controlling the virus for the free world.  However, they are not immune to the economic and health impacts of a pandemic.  I saw an article on this earlier and will post if I find it again.

The article that JayBee posted was not a proof that reinfection was happening, but called it into question.  Again if this is happening it could be frightening.

So we just have statements...from scoopers...which is about as valuable as having 6 months of TP in your closet.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 07, 2020, 10:23:20 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 07, 2020, 10:11:49 AM

Yes, given where we are at this point, we are probably pretty close to the best we can do.

The backward-looking criticisms are mainly over the fact that our "best" would have been better if we had implemented testing earlier and more comprehensively. But you're right - given the hand we have right now, the "best" option is to flirt with the line between overwhelming the healthcare system and trashing the economy.

And it is not my intent to really get into that.  It's been hashed, rehashed and re-rehashed.

What I don't understand is that it seems to me that today we are pretty much where people were hoping we'd be three weeks ago when the term "flattening the curve" really exploded into the lexicon and public understanding.  I understand that a lot of people think that mistakes that were made early in the process led us to an unfortunate place that this was the best that we could hope for. But it seems to me that evidence is beginning to suggest that what we've done over the last three weeks is actually achieving the desired effect, but people are still claiming that nothing has gone right -- even in the last three weeks.  And I genuinely don't understand that position.  People who know more than I do explained what we were hoping to accomplish. It seems like maybe we did a pretty good job of accomplishing that (with significant credit to the states). And the same people are arguing that nothing has been accomplished.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 07, 2020, 10:24:53 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 07, 2020, 09:53:28 AM

It's a pretty huge leap to go from "he ignored the advice of scientists" to "he's a science denier." 

Probably should not be hyperbolic with stuff like this.

Maybe my wording could have been better, but there is absolutely no doubt that he was denying the COVID-19 science. And bragging about it. And saying he would continue doing it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 07, 2020, 10:26:06 AM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 07, 2020, 09:55:38 AM

I have an honest question, and I hope that my past involvement in my thread will speak for my good faith here.  My understanding for the last several weeks is that it is widely believed that a very pretty significant percentage of people are going to get this virus, and that the various steps we are taking (to a greater or lesser extent depending upon where you reside) are intended to "flatten the curve."  In other words, as I understand it, to slow the rate of infection so as to avoid overwhelming the health care system. The thought is that this will reduce the eventual death rate because people will receive better care and we will not be faced with deciding who gets the last ventilator. But the total number of infections likely would not be reduced all that much.

If that is the case, aren't things progressing fairly closely to plan? In order to get "through" this as quickly as possible, don't we want to flirt with the line of overwhelming the health care system without crossing it?  I understand that the health care system is being taxed, and I believe that is literally inevitable and unavoidable and to be expected.  But if cases are increasing but not to the point of collapse of the health care system, isn't that kind of the plan?

Because of my job, I'm acutely aware of the lack of PPE and am in contact with people every day who are really struggling because of that. The PPE situation is a total disaster.  So, I'm not talking about that.  It just seems to me that as shocking and disturbing as all of this is, it it is progressing according to the plans that were explained to me several weeks ago -- including on this board.  It seems to me that many of the people who understood this and appreciated the danger far earlier than I did -- and explained the entire concept of "flattening the curve" to me -- are now claiming that nothing is being done.  But from my vantage point, we're generally keeping things within the capacities of our (admittedly busy) health care system.

Am I completely crazy or wrong?  And I hope no one will characterize this as me being insensitive to those who are sick or dying. I don't intend it that way.  It's absolutely tragic. I'm just trying to understand where we are and where we are going.

I think you have it spot on. We are flirting with the edge, but have only crossed it on occasion in places like NYC and New Orleans. Personally I think we have exceeded it, because a lot of people we are sending home should be monitored in a hospital setting, but we don't have the capacity for that (mostly on the medical personnel side).

The fear is that people see things as "not that bad" and either defy the stay-at-home orders, or some start to reopen the economy and undue the accomplishments.

So essentially some underlying fear of the unknown. That isn't going away any time soon.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 07, 2020, 10:29:02 AM

Quote from: forgetful on April 07, 2020, 10:26:06 AM

I think you have it spot on. We are flirting with the edge, but have only crossed it on occasion in places like NYC and New Orleans. Personally I think we have exceeded it, because a lot of people we are sending home should be monitored in a hospital setting, but we don't have the capacity for that (mostly on the medical personnel side).

The fear is that people see things as "not that bad" and either defy the stay-at-home orders, or some start to reopen the economy and undue the accomplishments.

So essentially some underlying fear of the unknown. That isn't going away any time soon.

I also think we have given some false impression that all we have to do is spent a few weeks in social isolation and then everything will be back to normal.  But normal is still a pretty long ways off.  "More normal" might be the best we can hope for.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 07, 2020, 10:30:05 AM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 07, 2020, 10:23:20 AM

And it is not my intent to really get into that.  It's been hashed, rehashed and re-rehashed.

What I don't understand is that it seems to me that today we are pretty much where people were hoping we'd be three weeks ago when the term "flattening the curve" really exploded into the lexicon and public understanding.  I understand that a lot of people think that mistakes that were made early in the process led us to a place that this was the best that we could hope for. But it seems to me that evidence is beginning to suggest that what we've done over the last three weeks is actually achieving the desired effect, but people are still claiming that nothing has gone right -- even in the last three weeks.  And I genuinely don't understand that position.  People who know more than I do explained what we were hoping to accomplish. It seems like maybe we did a pretty good job of accomplishing that (with significant credit to the states). And the same people are arguing that nothing has been accomplished.

I think implementing social distancing was the right move with where we were.  I agree, it is working and we should stick with it until things are under control.

I wish we would start debating the plan to manage this going forward (across govt).  It's much more interesting and impactful.  However it seems like we are still debating social distancing (for some reason)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 07, 2020, 10:30:40 AM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 07, 2020, 10:23:20 AM

And it is not my intent to really get into that.  It's been hashed, rehashed and re-rehashed.

What I don't understand is that it seems to me that today we are pretty much where people were hoping we'd be three weeks ago when the term "flattening the curve" really exploded into the lexicon and public understanding.  I understand that a lot of people think that mistakes that were made early in the process led us to an unfortunate place that this was the best that we could hope for. But it seems to me that evidence is beginning to suggest that what we've done over the last three weeks is actually achieving the desired effect, but people are still claiming that nothing has gone right -- even in the last three weeks.  And I genuinely don't understand that position.  People who know more than I do explained what we were hoping to accomplish. It seems like maybe we did a pretty good job of accomplishing that (with significant credit to the states). And the same people are arguing that nothing has been accomplished.

Not sure who is arguing that "nothing has been accomplished." Certainly not me. I have posted comments the last day or two that I am encouraged, but that I still think we have a long way to go.

For example, here are economists saying they don't think we are anywhere near being ready to re-open the economy.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/business/economy/coronavirus-economy.html?campaign_id=4&emc=edit_dk_20200407&instance_id=17436&nl=dealbook&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=24145&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 07, 2020, 10:31:42 AM

Quote from: forgetful on April 07, 2020, 10:26:06 AM

I think you have it spot on. We are flirting with the edge, but have only crossed it on occasion in places like NYC and New Orleans. Personally I think we have exceeded it, because a lot of people we are sending home should be monitored in a hospital setting, but we don't have the capacity for that (mostly on the medical personnel side).

The fear is that people see things as "not that bad" and either defy the stay-at-home orders, or some start to reopen the economy and undue the accomplishments.

So essentially some underlying fear of the unknown. That isn't going away any time soon.

I don't disagree.  And my post wasn't intended at all to be a "it's not that bad" post (and I'm not suggesting you said it is). I'm merely thinking that I'm happy to see that the big steps we all started taking a few weeks ago seem to be having the desired effect and I don't know why so many of the people who explained it to me (both here and elsewhere) are ignoring that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 07, 2020, 10:35:28 AM

Quote from: MU82 on April 07, 2020, 10:30:40 AM

Not sure who is arguing that "nothing has been accomplished." Certainly not me. I have posted comments the last day or two that I am encouraged, but that I still think we have a long way to go.

For example, here are economists saying they don't think we are anywhere near being ready to re-open the economy.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/business/economy/coronavirus-economy.html?campaign_id=4&emc=edit_dk_20200407&instance_id=17436&nl=dealbook&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=24145&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

I'm not specifically referring to you.

And I'm absolutely not even remotely suggesting we're close to re-opening things.  I figure we're hunkered down until at least June. I've been telling my oldest that she should probably prepare herself to have her senior VB season cancelled.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 07, 2020, 10:36:54 AM

Adding to my post above:

I said we are "probably pretty close" to the best we can do given the hand we have been dealt after the initial delays. IMHO, the "ideal" best given our current state would involve:

**A few more weeks of stay at home. Most people assume this is coming, but many states haven't formalized this yet.

**The handful of holdout states issuing stay at home orders, and people staying home on Easter Sunday. Failure to do either could result in overwhelming the healthcare systems in the relevant areas.

**Even when the stay at home orders expire, prohibiting large gatherings like sporting events, concerts and the like. MLB seems to be trying to find a solution along those lines with its possible move to games in AZ, with no fans, and players sequestered in hotels.

**Re-implementing the stay at home once statistical models show we're starting on the upswing again. I am far from the best expert to know when this will be, but I suspect epidemiologists can provide reasonably reliable models as long as we get more comprehensive and timely testing in place.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 07, 2020, 10:38:29 AM

Quote from: MU82 on April 07, 2020, 09:40:28 AM

Not sure why you would want to offer an incorrect defense of somebody who clearly and proudly denied the COVID-19 science.

Because Chicos

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 07, 2020, 10:38:34 AM

Here is how Germany handles these types of financial situations instead of doing mass layoffs coupled with unemployment benefits.

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2020/04/07/828081285/are-we-firing-too-many-people?utm_term=nprnews&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 07, 2020, 10:38:49 AM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 07, 2020, 10:31:42 AM

I don't disagree.  And my post wasn't intended at all to be a "it's not that bad" post (and I'm not suggesting you said it is). I'm merely thinking that I'm happy to see that the big steps we all started taking a few weeks ago seem to be having the desired effect and I don't know why so many of the people who explained it to me (both here and elsewhere) are ignoring that.

I hope I'm not one of the ones you think are ignoring that. I'm actually amazed, worldwide, how we have essentially shut everything down. Even places like India, shutting everything down.

It is honestly quite amazing. We could have, and would have had 10's of millions, maybe even 100M dead worldwide from this. But everyone stepped up and followed the models coming out of China, Korea, and Taiwan.

It is honestly quite amazing. I do worry still though, I don't trust people/the world to stay the course. Trying to be hopeful.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 07, 2020, 10:40:17 AM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 07, 2020, 10:35:28 AM

I'm not specifically referring to you.

And I'm absolutely not even remotely suggesting we're close to re-opening things.  I figure we're hunkered down until at least June. I've been telling my oldest that she should probably prepare herself to have her senior VB season cancelled.

That sucks that your daughter's VB season will be canceled. All kinds of people are being affected in all kinds of ways. I am not trivializing her situation, because it's genuinely sad when anything anybody was looking forward to is adversely affected by the virus.

Unfortunately, in a report just out:

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/live-blog/2020-04-07-coronavirus-news-n1178111

At the start of what officials have warned could be the deadliest week of the coronavirus pandemic, the U.S. recorded more than 1,200 coronavirus deaths in 24 hours, bringing the total number of deaths to nearly 11,000 on Tuesday morning.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 07, 2020, 10:43:05 AM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 07, 2020, 10:23:20 AM

And it is not my intent to really get into that.  It's been hashed, rehashed and re-rehashed.

What I don't understand is that it seems to me that today we are pretty much where people were hoping we'd be three weeks ago when the term "flattening the curve" really exploded into the lexicon and public understanding.  I understand that a lot of people think that mistakes that were made early in the process led us to an unfortunate place that this was the best that we could hope for. But it seems to me that evidence is beginning to suggest that what we've done over the last three weeks is actually achieving the desired effect, but people are still claiming that nothing has gone right -- even in the last three weeks.  And I genuinely don't understand that position.  People who know more than I do explained what we were hoping to accomplish. It seems like maybe we did a pretty good job of accomplishing that (with significant credit to the states). And the same people are arguing that nothing has been accomplished.

The social distancing was definitely the right move given where we are. For that, I definitely compliment the leadership of state governors (both D and R) who have implemented stay at home orders.

As for the complaints, I think they are directed mainly at a few specifics: (1) the continued poor availability of testing, which makes it much harder for experts to model the pandemic; (2) the continued lack of PPE (and the refusal of the federal government to take the lead, resulting in 50 states bidding against each other); and (3) the inconsistent messaging from the administration.

If we can get these things solved, and then listen to the experts on when to reopen (and then to re-close), I think we will be in a much better place.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 07, 2020, 10:49:55 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 07, 2020, 10:43:05 AM

The social distancing was definitely the right move given where we are. For that, I definitely compliment the leadership of state governors (both D and R) who have implemented stay at home orders.

Right, the social distancing policy has shown to be effective elsewhere in the world as well as the early hot spots in the U.S. that shut down.  The issue I see is with the idiot governors that still haven't implemented state-wide policies, or in Georgia's case actually issued an order to re-open public beaches.

Someone posted a map showing travel distances based on cell phone records, and the lack of taking this seriously in large segments of the country is what makes me think we'll have a long, rolling peak.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 07, 2020, 10:52:59 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 07, 2020, 10:38:34 AM

Here is how Germany handles these types of financial situations instead of doing mass layoffs coupled with unemployment benefits.

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2020/04/07/828081285/are-we-firing-too-many-people?utm_term=nprnews&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr

Would never work here. Too much socialism and not enough corporate welfare.

Edit: Ironically, though, this is what my company is doing. MDs and midlevels are taking 30-80% paycuts. Keeping everyone employed. Lower-level workers are working 1 week on/1 week off and filling with PTO. Fortunately, we will be able to sustain this model for up to 6 months. The hope being, that once we get the okay to go back to normal capacity, we can hit the ground running without having to wait on hiring everyone back.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 07, 2020, 10:55:49 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 07, 2020, 10:52:59 AM

Would never work here. Too much socialism and not enough corporate welfare.

Corporate socialism good, people welfare bad.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 07, 2020, 11:06:07 AM

Here's an example of what we're (read: The Federal Government, read: Trump and Jared) still doing wrong.  Flying PPE supplies in and then turning them over to private companies so states have to bid against each other.  I bet I can guess who is profiteering on this.

https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1247335425074696199

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 07, 2020, 11:11:07 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 07, 2020, 11:06:07 AM

Here's an example of what we're (read: The Federal Government, read: Trump and Jared) still doing wrong.  Flying PPE supplies in and then turning them over to private companies so states have to bid against each other.  I bet I can guess who is profiteering on this.

https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1247335425074696199

That's f'ed up. And some of the stuff I was talking about in the supplies/PPE thread.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 07, 2020, 11:15:13 AM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 07, 2020, 10:31:42 AM

I don't disagree.  And my post wasn't intended at all to be a "it's not that bad" post (and I'm not suggesting you said it is). I'm merely thinking that I'm happy to see that the big steps we all started taking a few weeks ago seem to be having the desired effect and I don't know why so many of the people who explained it to me (both here and elsewhere) are ignoring that.

I agree with all that you have said in your last several posts.

But I think what angers people is the lack of leadership. Most governors- both D and R have done a good job. Flattening the curve has occurred only because of their leadership. But there is no leadership at the top. The daily briefings are simply campaign events to attack the news media and Dems and to glorify himself. We pretty much know that the decision to open things back up will be made by his advisors on Fox.

So, yes we have flattened the curve, but we have no plan moving forward. We are at the whim of a fool.  I think that fact is why we have all of the bickering. No one knows what is next and we have no one to enunciate such a plan.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 07, 2020, 11:19:41 AM

Quote from: MU82 on April 07, 2020, 10:40:17 AM

That sucks that your daughter's VB season will be canceled.

For the record, I don't know that it will. I am just getting her prepared that it is not unthinkable that the NCAA won't cancel fall sports. I think the fact that football is a fall sport might actually cause the NCAA to think very long and hard before cancelling the fall competition seasons.

On the other hand, if they cancel fall sports maybe she will get another season of eligibility. Perhaps she could get her first year of grad school paid for.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on April 07, 2020, 11:23:36 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 07, 2020, 10:38:34 AM

Here is how Germany handles these types of financial situations instead of doing mass layoffs coupled with unemployment benefits.

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2020/04/07/828081285/are-we-firing-too-many-people?utm_term=nprnews&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr

Its interesting, but its poorly timed in my opinion.  That works in business slowdowns, not black swan events where your revenue is slashed by 50-60-70% if not more, and you don't know when that will resume.

I think it also depends on the business type, which is called out in the article. I struggle to see how that would work for a white collar business services field or the like.

It does remind me of a customer I have in Thailand.  He built a factory in a farming community.  Farmers are trained, often in a family setting.  When business is humming, the factory is full, when its less, some or most of the factory workers return to their farms with a stipend that its a smaller portion of wages

Quote from: MU82 on April 07, 2020, 10:40:17 AM

Unfortunately, in a report just out:

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/live-blog/2020-04-07-coronavirus-news-n1178111

At the start of what officials have warned could be the deadliest week of the coronavirus pandemic, the U.S. recorded more than 1,200 coronavirus deaths in 24 hours, bringing the total number of deaths to nearly 11,000 on Tuesday morning.

Not trying to be FAKE NEWS at all, but now that we are getting to inflection points, its interesting how these numbers get reported.  Numbers out of NYC today were very promising.  New ICU cases have dropped precipitously over the last few days.  However, I started noticing people on Twitter and the like, who have traditionally been posting new cases, hospitalizations, new ICU, total deaths, etc...  solely focused on BIGGEST 1 DAY DEATH IN NYC.  Even though Cuomo himself said its a lagging indicator and the lowered cases are cause for much optimism.  We are far from out of the woods, and its definitely necessary to frame the gravity of everything, but total deaths or "new deaths" are far from an accurate indicator of progress in the fight.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 07, 2020, 11:39:50 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on April 07, 2020, 11:23:36 AM

We are far from out of the woods, and its definitely necessary to frame the gravity of everything, but total deaths or "new deaths" are far from an accurate indicator of progress in the fight.

Reasonable.

I like to think that all of us here want the same thing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 07, 2020, 11:46:20 AM

Trump fires Inspector General who was to oversee spending.

Biggest non-surprise in history?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 07, 2020, 11:47:15 AM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 07, 2020, 10:31:42 AM

I don't disagree.  And my post wasn't intended at all to be a "it's not that bad" post (and I'm not suggesting you said it is). I'm merely thinking that I'm happy to see that the big steps we all started taking a few weeks ago seem to be having the desired effect and I don't know why so many of the people who explained it to me (both here and elsewhere) are ignoring that.

Sorry for the double post.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 07, 2020, 12:08:52 PM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 07, 2020, 10:35:28 AM

I'm not specifically referring to you.

And I'm absolutely not even remotely suggesting we're close to re-opening things.  I figure we're hunkered down until at least June. I've been telling my oldest that she should probably prepare herself to have her senior VB season cancelled.

I have been warning my oldest too that he may not have a senior football season.  He already had a possible trip to state for hoops canceled (1 game away) and his junior aau season.  He wants to play hoops in college and has been told he can play D2 but who knows if all of aau is canceled this year

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Elonsmusk on April 07, 2020, 12:22:06 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 07, 2020, 09:51:17 AM

They are different, but it is a bold-faced lie to say that hydroxychloroquine doesn't have side effects and there is "virtually" no risk in taking it, especially at the dosages being prescribed for COVID. For one, it can cause vision loss.

There is also very little evidence, that it is having an effect on COVID at all. The preliminary studies supportive of it are weak at best, and poorly designed studies. Some data has been contradictory, and even suggests it could make things worse in some cases.

Bottom line, we need to wait and see. The early data is not supportive of rushing out and giving this to everyone. Remember, if you give them this treatment, you often rule out then, other treatments that offer equal or better preliminary data.

Trust the scientists.

I'll wait for you to link the story about a Corona patient who loses their vision due to taking Hydroxy.  Just because you can't run a formal clinical trial phase 1, 2, 2a/b for this indication, shouldn't preclude its usage.

What are the other treatments currently available that offer equal or better preliminary data?

Interesting the rate of intubation, hospitalization, ICU has dropped off significantly in NY in last few days, and they began the usage of hydroxy 1 week ago.  Coincidence or correlation?

I suspect if you are a loved one were struggling mightily with COVID, you'd turn to trying Hydroxy, because of the anecdotal evidence thus far.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 07, 2020, 12:33:41 PM

Quote from: Elonsmusk on April 07, 2020, 12:22:06 PM

I'll wait for you to link the story about a Corona patient who loses their vision due to taking Hydroxy.  Just because you can't run a formal clinical trial phase 1, 2, 2a/b for this indication, shouldn't preclude its usage.

What are the other treatments currently available that offer equal or better preliminary data?

Interesting the rate of intubation, hospitalization, ICU has dropped off significantly in NY in last few days, and they began the usage of hydroxy 1 week ago.  Coincidence or correlation?

I suspect if you are a loved one were struggling mightily with COVID, you'd turn to trying Hydroxy, because of the anecdotal evidence thus far.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the use of hydroxy was in early confirmed cases to prevent viral replication. Not severe symptomatic patients.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 07, 2020, 12:39:40 PM

Interesting what is going on in other countries.
My wife's friend in Poland sent a picture she took from her apartment window.  She witnessed the police giving a woman a ticket who was wearing a hazmat suit and a mask simply for sitting on park bench.
Supposedly, in Poland you are only supposed to go outside if headed to the grocery store or pharmacy. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on April 07, 2020, 12:50:58 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 07, 2020, 12:39:40 PM

Interesting what is going on in other countries.
My wife's friend in Poland sent a picture she took from her apartment window.  She witnessed the police giving a woman a ticket who was wearing a hazmat suit and a mask simply for sitting on park bench.
Supposedly, in Poland you are only supposed to go outside if headed to the grocery store or pharmacy.

Talked to a coworker in Poland the other day, and you could be fined pretty heavily if you are not in compliance of this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 07, 2020, 01:00:22 PM

More the Onion to loosen things up.

---

Georgia Governor Argues That Closing State’s Beaches An Attack On Citizens’ Fundamental Right To Get Wet ’N’ Wild

https://politics.theonion.com/georgia-governor-argues-that-closing-state-s-beaches-an-1842709493

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 07, 2020, 01:32:38 PM

Good news...if we heed the caveats:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/07/health/ihme-updated-covid19-model/index.html

Fewer deaths through August and fewer hospital beds needed, as models are adjusted based on new data. But here's the catch:

But the newest version of the model underscores just how important social distancing continues to be: It assumes that those measures -- such as closing schools and businesses -- will continue until August, and it still predicts tens of thousands of deaths.

Do we have the political and personal will to continue current measures until August?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 07, 2020, 01:53:54 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on April 07, 2020, 11:23:36 AM

Its interesting, but its poorly timed in my opinion.  That works in business slowdowns, not black swan events where your revenue is slashed by 50-60-70% if not more, and you don't know when that will resume.

I think it also depends on the business type, which is called out in the article. I struggle to see how that would work for a white collar business services field or the like.

It does remind me of a customer I have in Thailand.  He built a factory in a farming community.  Farmers are trained, often in a family setting.  When business is humming, the factory is full, when its less, some or most of the factory workers return to their farms with a stipend that its a smaller portion of wages

Not trying to be FAKE NEWS at all, but now that we are getting to inflection points, its interesting how these numbers get reported.  Numbers out of NYC today were very promising.  New ICU cases have dropped precipitously over the last few days.  However, I started noticing people on Twitter and the like, who have traditionally been posting new cases, hospitalizations, new ICU, total deaths, etc...  solely focused on BIGGEST 1 DAY DEATH IN NYC.  Even though Cuomo himself said its a lagging indicator and the lowered cases are cause for much optimism.  We are far from out of the woods, and its definitely necessary to frame the gravity of everything, but total deaths or "new deaths" are far from an accurate indicator of progress in the fight.

I’ve actually found the coverage that I read to be quite balanced. 

 https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/491553-cuomo-reports-731-coronavirus-deaths-in-the-state-its-largest-one-day (https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/491553-cuomo-reports-731-coronavirus-deaths-in-the-state-its-largest-one-day)

Times had the deaths in the headline and intro but then covered the good news part for the rest of the piece.

 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/07/world/coronavirus-updates-news-live.html#link-ae559d4 (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/07/world/coronavirus-updates-news-live.html#link-ae559d4)

Post was similar.  Journal didn’t have something that hit my feed, but they are less about breaking news on this topic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 07, 2020, 01:59:06 PM

Patients who need hydroxychloroquine to treat autoimmune diseases can't find it:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/07/patients-with-autoimmune-diseases-running-out-of-hydroxychloroquine.html

Very sad, but not surprising....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on April 07, 2020, 02:10:59 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 07, 2020, 01:32:38 PM

Good news...if we heed the caveats:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/07/health/ihme-updated-covid19-model/index.html

Fewer deaths through August and fewer hospital beds needed, as models are adjusted based on new data. But here's the catch:

But the newest version of the model underscores just how important social distancing continues to be: It assumes that those measures -- such as closing schools and businesses -- will continue until August, and it still predicts tens of thousands of deaths.

Do we have the political and personal will to continue current measures until August?

Forget personal will.  Closing everything until August will bring a widespread Depression and wipe out millions via economic impact.  Even with an expanded PPP or the like.  The longer a business stays closed, the longer it takes to get back up to speed and operating anywhere profitably after, in many cases. Ive mentioned before, provided the rest of the world doesnt do the exact same, if we are closed till August, many of our customers will move on and we will reopen to...nothingness.

Widespread testing and limited public gatherings and crowds for another 3-6 months starting in late May/June?  That could work.  Maintaining this level of shutdown and social distanced caution and closings is economic suicide. 

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 07, 2020, 01:53:54 PM

I’ve actually found the coverage that I read to be quite balanced. 

 https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/491553-cuomo-reports-731-coronavirus-deaths-in-the-state-its-largest-one-day (https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/491553-cuomo-reports-731-coronavirus-deaths-in-the-state-its-largest-one-day)

Times had the deaths in the headline and intro but then covered the good news part for the rest of the piece.

 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/07/world/coronavirus-updates-news-live.html#link-ae559d4 (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/07/world/coronavirus-updates-news-live.html#link-ae559d4)

Post was similar.  Journal didn’t have something that hit my feed, but they are less about breaking news on this topic.

I hadn't read a ton of print yet, but the headlines and excerpts on the news related tweets and the tickers on CNN all highlighted Cuomo announcing a record number of deaths.  Opening up the article GOOO linked above was the same, the sidebar "next article" from CNN was completely deaths according to Cuomo focused.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 07, 2020, 02:14:26 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 07, 2020, 11:46:20 AM

Trump fires Inspector General who was to oversee spending.

Biggest non-surprise in history?

The IG did his job correctly and filed an accurate report.  That is verboten in this administration.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 07, 2020, 02:19:48 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on April 07, 2020, 02:10:59 PM

Forget personal will.  Closing everything until August will bring a widespread Depression and wipe out millions via economic impact.  Even with an expanded PPP or the like.  The longer a business stays closed, the longer it takes to get back up to speed and operating anywhere profitably after, in many cases. Ive mentioned before, provided the rest of the world doesnt do the exact same, if we are closed till August, many of our customers will move on and we will reopen to...nothingness.

Widespread testing and limited public gatherings and crowds for another 3-6 months starting in late May/June?  That could work.  Maintaining this level of shutdown and social distanced caution and closings is economic suicide. 

This is why we have to figure out the best way to navigate the path forward.  If we all go back to the way it was, it just explodes again, but this time at the office, the factory floor, at church, etc.

If I were the leader of the free world there would be a few streams
1. Stop the crisis (social distance, PPE, ventilators, etc) - message this daily
2. Therapeutics - systems for idea, control trial, studies  -- how do we beat this when people get it
3. Vaccines - How do we fast track a way to stop this
4. System for new 'normal' - testing, containment, contact tracing, antibody certification
5. Economic response

1-4 is mainly doctor/scientist led with business/economic folks required (i.e. how do we compel more PPE production or will this certification keep an office environment running).

But what do I know.  I'm just a guy with a 6 month supply of TP

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on April 07, 2020, 02:31:27 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 07, 2020, 02:19:48 PM

This is why we have to figure out the best way to navigate the path forward.  If we all go back to the way it was, it just explodes again, but this time at the office, the factory floor, at church, etc.

If I were the leader of the free world there would be a few streams
1. Stop the crisis (social distance, PPE, ventilators, etc) - message this daily
2. Therapeutics - systems for idea, control trial, studies  -- how do we beat this when people get it
3. Vaccines - How do we fast track a way to stop this
4. System for new 'normal' - testing, containment, contact tracing, antibody certification
5. Economic response

1-4 is mainly doctor/scientist led with business/economic folks required (i.e. how do we compel more PPE production or will this certification keep an office environment running).

But what do I know.  I'm just a guy with a 6 month supply of TP

I don't disagree with you, and don't think just flinging the doors back open and saying "back at it America!" is the solution.  But I have a visceral reaction to any suggestions that are "this is working, just need another 3-4 months of this shutdown and we'll be fine".  Its myopic and detached from reality.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 07, 2020, 02:33:37 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 07, 2020, 02:14:26 PM

The IG did his job correctly and filed an accurate report.  That is verboten in this administration.

No, T, that was the woman IG from HHS - another IG. :D

Trump fired the one who was to oversee corporate stimulus today.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 07, 2020, 02:36:28 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 07, 2020, 02:19:48 PM

This is why we have to figure out the best way to navigate the path forward.  If we all go back to the way it was, it just explodes again, but this time at the office, the factory floor, at church, etc.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/us-eyes-second-coronavirus-outbreak-in-china?ref=wrap

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 07, 2020, 02:47:27 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 07, 2020, 01:32:38 PM

Good news...if we heed the caveats:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/07/health/ihme-updated-covid19-model/index.html

Fewer deaths through August and fewer hospital beds needed, as models are adjusted based on new data. But here's the catch:

But the newest version of the model underscores just how important social distancing continues to be: It assumes that those measures -- such as closing schools and businesses -- will continue until August, and it still predicts tens of thousands of deaths.

Do we have the political and personal will to continue current measures until August?

I doubt it.

Does the model take into account the possible advent of a treatment?
Call me a wild optimist, but I do believe we'll come up with some kind of treatment to lessen the symptoms. And once that's widely available, combined with warmer weather and herd immunity, it will allow things to open up again.
People will still get sick - people will still get sick either way - but if we can reduce the symptoms, we reduce the deaths, we reduce the severe cases and we reduce the stress on the health system.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 07, 2020, 02:59:21 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on April 07, 2020, 02:31:27 PM

I don't disagree with you, and don't think just flinging the doors back open and saying "back at it America!" is the solution.  But I have a visceral reaction to any suggestions that are "this is working, just need another 3-4 months of this shutdown and we'll be fine".  Its myopic and detached from reality.

This whole thing is detached from reality.  At least thats what I thought 4 weeks ago.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 07, 2020, 03:12:22 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on April 07, 2020, 02:31:27 PM

I don't disagree with you, and don't think just flinging the doors back open and saying "back at it America!" is the solution.  But I have a visceral reaction to any suggestions that are "this is working, just need another 3-4 months of this shutdown and we'll be fine".  Its myopic and detached from reality.

I never said - and I don't think anyone else here said - "just need another 3-4 months of this shutdown and we'll be fine."

Quite the contrary. If we stick with it for another 3-4 months, it will be horribly difficult when we come out, likely with unemployment numbers like we haven't seen in a long time (none of which is "fine"). Yeah, it will be sh!tty. But we will recover and life will gradually move forward.

So why do I still believe we need that additional time? Because I think the alternative is even worse: opening things up too soon, and seeing the numbers rebound within a few weeks.

As I said in an earlier post - there are no "good" options. Just a choice between a bunch of bad ones. So the goal right now is to figure out which is least bad.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on April 07, 2020, 03:38:53 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 07, 2020, 03:12:22 PM

I never said - and I don't think anyone else here said - "just need another 3-4 months of this shutdown and we'll be fine."

Quite the contrary. If we stick with it for another 3-4 months, it will be horribly difficult when we come out, likely with unemployment numbers like we haven't seen in a long time (none of which is "fine"). Yeah, it will be sh!tty. But we will recover and life will gradually move forward.

So why do I still believe we need that additional time? Because I think the alternative is even worse: opening things up too soon, and seeing the numbers rebound within a few weeks.

As I said in an earlier post - there are no "good" options. Just a choice between a bunch of bad ones. So the goal right now is to figure out which is least bad.

I find this is always the argument for plans of action that have potentially extremely harmful economic outcomes, but not for ones that eye economic precaution versus the absolute minimal patient count (hopefully that was phrased in an understandable way).

And FWIW, I find that attitude towards it to be patronizing and dismissive (not yours personally, you're certainly not the fore-bearer of it).  "Your business might fail, but the country/industry/the market will recover, and we will all move on".  And then its usually followed by telling people what will or wont happen with their business if we don't and taking all personal ability or action out of it.  And frankly I'm pretty sick of it.  Especially when we are not talking about removing any and all restrictions and just free-wheeling into it like the virus never existed.

A business someone has had for years or decades failing due to a excess of caution and then assuming they will just move on into a bleak short to mid term economic outlook is pretty callous.  And relying on increasing government intervention like PPP is just putting a bandaid on a severed artery.  One size fits all strategy for this in a country as big, diverse, and varied as the US feels lowest common denominator.

Again, I'm speaking strictly to all of the super conservative model-fueled ideas that we need to keep things closed for far longer than anyone anticipates to mitigate any and all risk.  Not some sort of blended strategy which is what I hope the powers that be are working on.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 07, 2020, 04:16:17 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 07, 2020, 02:33:37 PM

No, T, that was the woman IG from HHS - another IG. :D

Trump fired the one who was to oversee corporate stimulus today.

My bad, it is hard to keep up with the purges.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Elonsmusk on April 07, 2020, 04:28:21 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 07, 2020, 03:12:22 PM

I never said - and I don't think anyone else here said - "just need another 3-4 months of this shutdown and we'll be fine."

Quite the contrary. If we stick with it for another 3-4 months, it will be horribly difficult when we come out, likely with unemployment numbers like we haven't seen in a long time (none of which is "fine"). Yeah, it will be sh!tty. But we will recover and life will gradually move forward.

So why do I still believe we need that additional time? Because I think the alternative is even worse: opening things up too soon, and seeing the numbers rebound within a few weeks.

As I said in an earlier post - there are no "good" options. Just a choice between a bunch of bad ones. So the goal right now is to figure out which is least bad.

We already have seen unemployment numbers like we've never seen.  Last 2 weeks of unemployment claims were 5x and 10x the previous weekly record of 600k in a week set back in 1982. 

I simply don't see how we shut the country down for another 3-4 months.  The consequences of that would be dire.  We may need to come to terms with death being inevitable for those in the highest risk groups.  That sounds cold and callous, yet, nature ultimately has a way of running its course.  We can artificially keep people alive on ventilators, yet at what point do we have to let them go? Personally, I'd rather die a pretty short death, than to be stuck in a nursing home, assisted living, or memory care unit.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 07, 2020, 04:38:33 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 07, 2020, 03:12:22 PM

I never said - and I don't think anyone else here said - "just need another 3-4 months of this shutdown and we'll be fine."

Quite the contrary. If we stick with it for another 3-4 months, it will be horribly difficult when we come out, likely with unemployment numbers like we haven't seen in a long time (none of which is "fine"). Yeah, it will be sh!tty. But we will recover and life will gradually move forward.

So why do I still believe we need that additional time? Because I think the alternative is even worse: opening things up too soon, and seeing the numbers rebound within a few weeks.

As I said in an earlier post - there are no "good" options. Just a choice between a bunch of bad ones. So the goal right now is to figure out which is least bad.

Just how “crapty” are you willing to let it get. We had a depression once that lasted 16 years and only ended because of and after a War had cost us 405,000 young men. That crapty?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 07, 2020, 04:41:48 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 07, 2020, 04:38:33 PM

Just how “crapty” are you willing to let it get. We had a depression once that lasted 16 years and only ended because of and after a War had cost us 405,000 young men. That crapty?

Lenny I am using you to make a point, but it’s been coming up a lot.  There are more than two scenarios (full lockdown - maximum death). 

Maybe I expect more out of my leaders than others but I expect them to strike that balance. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 07, 2020, 04:48:40 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 07, 2020, 04:41:48 PM

Lenny I am using you to make a point, but it’s been coming up a lot.  There are more than two scenarios (full lockdown - maximum death). 

Maybe I expect more out of my leaders than others but I expect them to strike that balance.

Frenns

Agree. I just don’t think a total shutdown through July strikes that balance.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 07, 2020, 04:54:27 PM

Quote from: Elonsmusk on April 07, 2020, 12:22:06 PM

I'll wait for you to link the story about a Corona patient who loses their vision due to taking Hydroxy.  Just because you can't run a formal clinical trial phase 1, 2, 2a/b for this indication, shouldn't preclude its usage.

What are the other treatments currently available that offer equal or better preliminary data?

Interesting the rate of intubation, hospitalization, ICU has dropped off significantly in NY in last few days, and they began the usage of hydroxy 1 week ago.  Coincidence or correlation?

I suspect if you are a loved one were struggling mightily with COVID, you'd turn to trying Hydroxy, because of the anecdotal evidence thus far.

Go back several pages, Sweden stopped their trials because of side effects, like impaired vision.

Based on the preliminary data, all the drugs in clinical trials (e.g. Remdesivir) have equal or better preliminary data. The only clinical data with controls on hydroxychloroquine were mixed, one with moderate benefit, the other with no benefit and in some cases worse outcomes. That type of mixed results are essentially what all experimental treatments are showing so far.

Your correlation data is meaningless. Especially since they can't get the drug without being in a hospital. So rates of hospitalization cannot be affected by the drug.

I was struggling mightily, and could choose one treatment, I want convalescent plasma. Separate from that, I'd heed the advice of my doctors.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 07, 2020, 04:59:29 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 07, 2020, 04:48:40 PM

Frenns

Agree. I just don’t think a total shutdown through July strikes that balance.

The truth is no one knows the answer to that.   New York has 7000 known cases per million.  Let’s say that is wrong by a factor of 10-  they are 7% of the way to a herd immunity (idk 70% infected).

If someone said “New Yorkers the world is open”. I don’t think people are running to the movie theater or to eat out. 

We’re debating nonsense scenarios until there is a cohesive plan on the health side. 

Now if the known to unknown case percentage is higher—maybe we can get back to normal.  That would of course have to be discovered with some sort of system of testing for antibodies. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 07, 2020, 05:06:08 PM

This decision was bad and unfortunate. 

 https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/491651-new-york-city-auctioned-off-extra-ventilators-due-to-cost-of-maintenance (https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/491651-new-york-city-auctioned-off-extra-ventilators-due-to-cost-of-maintenance)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 07, 2020, 05:06:17 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 07, 2020, 04:38:33 PM

Just how “crapty” are you willing to let it get. We had a depression once that lasted 16 years and only ended because of and after a War had cost us 405,000 young men. That crapty?

If we actually had the testing that we are told we have, we could start the return to normal now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Elonsmusk on April 07, 2020, 05:07:39 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 07, 2020, 04:54:27 PM

Go back several pages, Sweden stopped their trials because of side effects, like impaired vision.

Based on the preliminary data, all the drugs in clinical trials (e.g. Remdesivir) have equal or better preliminary data. The only clinical data with controls on hydroxychloroquine were mixed, one with moderate benefit, the other with no benefit and in some cases worse outcomes. That type of mixed results are essentially what all experimental treatments are showing so far.

Your correlation data is meaningless. Especially since they can't get the drug without being in a hospital. So rates of hospitalization cannot be affected by the drug.

I was struggling mightily, and could choose one treatment, I want convalescent plasma. Separate from that, I'd heed the advice of my doctors.

Believe Sweden was using chloroquine..if it was the post Rocky decoded?   Remdesivir is at least 9 months away. So. Not an option right now.

So. If left with a choice between likely ICU, intubation, ventilator - you wouldn’t give it a shot?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Marquette Gyros on April 07, 2020, 05:12:56 PM

Political fundraiser abruptly leaves role to start medical supply company... the new American Dream, really...
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/27/republican-fundraiser-company-coronavirus-152184

“I don’t want to overstate, but we probably represent the largest global supply chain for Covid-19 supplies right now,” he said. “We are getting ready to fill 100 million-unit mask orders.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on April 07, 2020, 05:16:12 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on April 07, 2020, 02:47:27 PM

I doubt it.

Does the model take into account the possible advent of a treatment?
Call me a wild optimist, but I do believe we'll come up with some kind of treatment to lessen the symptoms. And once that's widely available, combined with warmer weather and herd immunity, it will allow things to open up again.
People will still get sick - people will still get sick either way - but if we can reduce the symptoms, we reduce the deaths, we reduce the severe cases and we reduce the stress on the health system.

If I read this correctly, post of the day!!  At least

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 07, 2020, 05:18:32 PM

Quote from: Elonsmusk on April 07, 2020, 05:07:39 PM

Believe Sweden was using chloroquine..if it was the post Rocky decoded?   Remdesivir is at least 9 months away. So. Not an option right now.

So. If left with a choice between likely ICU, intubation, ventilator - you wouldn’t give it a shot?

Sweden stoped using hydroxychloroquine due to patients having seizures and vision problems. Both well known side effects.

Remdesivir is in trials for COVID-19, and can (and is) be used on the same compassionate use doctrines as hydroxychloroquine.

Like I said, I'd take the advice of my doctors on what gives me the best chance to survive.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 07, 2020, 05:34:11 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 07, 2020, 04:38:33 PM

Just how “crapty” are you willing to let it get. We had a depression once that lasted 16 years and only ended because of and after a War had cost us 405,000 young men. That crapty?

No, not at all.

The Great Depression lasted as long as it did because the underlying economy was weak to begin with, and the government had no means of controlling the widespread economic gambling. (Result: Securities Act of '33 and Securities Exchange Act of '34). Even the Great Recession resulted from underlying flaws in banking regulations. This time, the economy was relatively strong and the government had more tools at its immediate disposal, when an external factor intervened to throw things into a sudden spiral. Because of those very significant differences, I suspect things will rebound not long after we get this pandemic under control. And though economists differ in how quickly they think things will come back, even the most negative still call for a faster rebound than in those catastrophes. https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2020/03/31/coronavirus-how-quickly-can-economy-bounce-back-crisis/5090355002/

As for the people like JWags who are seeing business falling apart, I feel terrible. I really do. It is starting to get real in my family as my daughter got an email today that her company is planning "significant cutbacks" within the next week or two, so she may very well be among the ranks of the unemployed. So yes - I can hear how real this is in the tone of her voice. I just fear that lifting the restrictions too quickly would result in a quick rebound and return to where we are today.

If the real pandemic experts (not Trump, but Fauci, the CDC and places like Johns Hopkins, Mayo Clinic, University of Washington) think we can lift restrictions more quickly without risking a quick and dramatic rebound, great. But if not, I'd rather listen to their suggestions and stay the course.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on April 07, 2020, 05:53:08 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 07, 2020, 05:34:11 PM

No, not at all.

The Great Depression lasted as long as it did because the underlying economy was weak to begin with, and the government had no means of controlling the widespread economic gambling. (Result: Securities Act of '33 and Securities Exchange Act of '34). Even the Great Recession resulted from underlying flaws in banking regulations. This time, the economy was relatively strong and the government had more tools at its immediate disposal, when an external factor intervened to throw things into a sudden spiral. Because of those very significant differences, I suspect things will rebound not long after we get this pandemic under control. And though economists differ in how quickly they think things will come back, even the most negative still call for a faster rebound than in those catastrophes. https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2020/03/31/coronavirus-how-quickly-can-economy-bounce-back-crisis/5090355002/

As for the people like JWags who are seeing business falling apart, I feel terrible. I really do. It is starting to get real in my family as my daughter got an email today that her company is planning "significant cutbacks" within the next week or two, so she may very well be among the ranks of the unemployed. So yes - I can hear how real this is in the tone of her voice. I just fear that lifting the restrictions too quickly would result in a quick rebound and return to where we are today.

If the real pandemic experts (not Trump, but Fauci, the CDC and places like Johns Hopkins, Mayo Clinic, University of Washington) think we can lift restrictions more quickly without risking a quick and dramatic rebound, great. But if not, I'd rather listen to their suggestions and stay the course.

A few weeks back, folks were hopeful for a V shaped recession/bounce back, probably now closer to U, just depends on how long the bottom part is.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 07, 2020, 06:00:32 PM

Here is an interview with Fauci from the WSJ on what a return to ‘normal’ could look like

 https://www.wsj.com/podcasts/the-journal/dr-anthony-fauci-on-how-life-returns-to-normal/D5754969-7027-431E-89FA-E12788ED9879 (https://www.wsj.com/podcasts/the-journal/dr-anthony-fauci-on-how-life-returns-to-normal/D5754969-7027-431E-89FA-E12788ED9879)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 07, 2020, 06:15:22 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 07, 2020, 05:34:11 PM

No, not at all.

The Great Depression lasted as long as it did because the underlying economy was weak to begin with, and the government had no means of controlling the widespread economic gambling. (Result: Securities Act of '33 and Securities Exchange Act of '34). Even the Great Recession resulted from underlying flaws in banking regulations. This time, the economy was relatively strong and the government had more tools at its immediate disposal, when an external factor intervened to throw things into a sudden spiral. Because of those very significant differences, I suspect things will rebound not long after we get this pandemic under control. And though economists differ in how quickly they think things will come back, even the most negative still call for a faster rebound than in those catastrophes. https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2020/03/31/coronavirus-how-quickly-can-economy-bounce-back-crisis/5090355002/

As for the people like JWags who are seeing business falling apart, I feel terrible. I really do. It is starting to get real in my family as my daughter got an email today that her company is planning "significant cutbacks" within the next week or two, so she may very well be among the ranks of the unemployed. So yes - I can hear how real this is in the tone of her voice. I just fear that lifting the restrictions too quickly would result in a quick rebound and return to where we are today.

If the real pandemic experts (not Trump, but Fauci, the CDC and places like Johns Hopkins, Mayo Clinic, University of Washington) think we can lift restrictions more quickly without risking a quick and dramatic rebound, great. But if not, I'd rather listen to their suggestions and stay the course.

Are the regulations better today? Flaws removed?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 07, 2020, 06:31:25 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 07, 2020, 06:15:22 PM

Are the regulations better today? Flaws removed?

This downtown isn’t the result of anything related to banks or poorly backed mortgages - the pandemic is a fundamentally different hurdle - so even if the answer is “no,” I don’t see how it is relevant.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 07, 2020, 06:44:49 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 07, 2020, 04:41:48 PM

Lenny I am using you to make a point, but it’s been coming up a lot.  There are more than two scenarios (full lockdown - maximum death). 

Maybe I expect more out of my leaders than others but I expect them to strike that balance.

As seen on this message forum, balance is not allowed.  Our leaders will be held to an impossible standard with “blood on their hands” no matter the decision any of them make at the federal, state and local level.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 07, 2020, 06:51:24 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 07, 2020, 06:44:49 PM

As seen on this message forum, balance is not allowed.  Our leaders will be held to an impossible standard with “blood on their hands” no matter the decision any of them make at the federal, state and local level.

I'm not sure where you see that.

From my perspective, state and local leaders have (for the most part) done a better job of handling this crisis than federal leaders. But even with that general observation, I have seen some bad decisions by state leaders, and some good decisions by the feds. So a mixed bag, with varying degrees of good and bad responses. And with all of them, it was never a death/no death scenario - it was simply a matter of good or bad responses to an inherently bad situation.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 07, 2020, 06:57:48 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 07, 2020, 06:51:24 PM

I'm not sure where you see that.

It's Chicos with his false equivalency act again, trying to change the narrative to everyone is at fault.  unnatural carnal knowledgeer just can't go away.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 07, 2020, 07:18:42 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 07, 2020, 06:00:32 PM

Here is an interview with Fauci from the WSJ on what a return to ‘normal’ could look like

 https://www.wsj.com/podcasts/the-journal/dr-anthony-fauci-on-how-life-returns-to-normal/D5754969-7027-431E-89FA-E12788ED9879 (https://www.wsj.com/podcasts/the-journal/dr-anthony-fauci-on-how-life-returns-to-normal/D5754969-7027-431E-89FA-E12788ED9879)

great podcast lots of good information

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 07, 2020, 07:19:16 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 07, 2020, 06:51:24 PM

I'm not sure where you see that.

From my perspective, state and local leaders have (for the most part) done a better job of handling this crisis than federal leaders. But even with that general observation, I have seen some bad decisions by state leaders, and some good decisions by the feds. So a mixed bag, with varying degrees of good and bad responses. And with all of them, it was never a death/no death scenario - it was simply a matter of good or bad responses to an inherently bad situation.

DeSantis not closing beaches
New Yorkers still on subways.  New Yorkers encouraged to go to restaurants, parades and Broadway by New York mayor and health officials.
California letting 20 million masks expire and dismantling their pandemic program due to budget cuts
New Orleans / Louisiana allowing Marie Gras to continue
Feds ignoring pandemic warnings in 2018, 2015, 2011, 2006, 2001, 1998.
Feds acting too slowly to stop travel from China while the media tearing into decision that it was xenophobic.
Feds ignoring threat at first, issuing different threat levels that change al last daily.

Add in Federalism and States rights.  Urban vs rural.   Economic vs healthcare.

Anecdote:  Some of my relatives living in the middle of the country are furious at the shutdown economically.  They are sympathetic that some are dying, but they point out Fauci believes this will ultimately be a death rate of a severe flu season.  Other relatives think we should be held at gunpoint and shot if we leave our homes.  They want total isolation (they tend to be in urban hubs). 

You get the idea.  There is a faction that is demanding everything shut down, which legally the federal govt cannot do.  When Iowa waits, or the Dakotas that opens a risk that their leaders have said is ok.  Neighboring Minnesota may not agree, but they pay the price potentially.  When Trump proposed locking down New York, Cuomo threatened an immediate civil rights lawsuit.

Now weigh those decisions of shutting it all down or else blood is on your hands with the complete wreck of an economy?  No matter what decision is made, leaders are in a now in situation.

There is no answer to fit a country this size with our freedoms and population density variances.  We are not alone as other countries have been wrecked as well.  Some with universal healthcare, some without. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 07, 2020, 07:27:32 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 07, 2020, 07:19:16 PM

DeSantis not closing beaches
New Yorkers still on subways.  New Yorkers encouraged to go to restaurants, parades and Broadway by New York mayor and health officials.
California letting 20 million masks expire and dismantling their pandemic program due to budget cuts
New Orleans / Louisiana allowing Marie Gras to continue
Feds ignoring pandemic warnings in 2018, 2015, 2011, 2006, 2001, 1998.
Feds acting too slowly to stop travel from China while the media tearing into decision that it was xenophobic.
Feds ignoring threat at first, issuing different threat levels that change al last daily.

Add in Federalism and States rights.  Urban vs rural.   Economic vs healthcare.

Anecdote:  Some of my relatives living in the middle of the country are furious at the shutdown economically.  They are sympathetic that some are dying, but they point out Fauci believes this will ultimately be a death rate of a severe flu season.  Other relatives think we should be held at gunpoint and shot if we leave our homes.  They want total isolation (they tend to be in urban hubs). 

You get the idea.  There is a faction that is demanding everything shut down, which legally the federal govt cannot do.  When Iowa waits, or the Dakotas that opens a risk that their leaders have said is ok.  Neighboring Minnesota may not agree, but they pay the price potentially.  When Trump proposed locking down New York, Cuomo threatened an immediate civil rights lawsuit.

Now weigh those decisions of shutting it all down or else blood is on your hands with the complete wreck of an economy?  No matter what decision is made, leaders are in a now in situation.

There is no answer to fit a country this size with our freedoms and population density variances.  We are not alone as other countries have been wrecked as well.  Some with universal healthcare, some without.

You still didn't show me anything to support your comment that "As seen on this message forum, balance is not allowed. Our leaders will be held to an impossible standard with “blood on their hands” no matter the decision any of them make at the federal, state and local level."

IMHO, while peoples' political biases naturally come through on this board, most people see good and bad decisions being made, and most people who are paying attention realize that there was never a "good" outcome to this situation.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 07, 2020, 07:47:05 PM

Quote from: reinko on April 07, 2020, 05:53:08 PM

A few weeks back, folks were hopeful for a V shaped recession/bounce back, probably now closer to U, just depends on how long the bottom part is.

Just got off the phone with my Financial Adviser.
They said 3 scenarios: Great Depression 2, v-recovery or u-recovery.  Consensus in the financial world leaning towards U-shape.  Negative for 3-5 months and not every job will come back.  Should be a strong 4th Quarter.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 07, 2020, 07:55:46 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 07, 2020, 07:27:32 PM

You still didn't show me anything to support your comment that "As seen on this message forum, balance is not allowed. Our leaders will be held to an impossible standard with “blood on their hands” no matter the decision any of them make at the federal, state and local level."

IMHO, while peoples' political biases naturally come through on this board, most people see good and bad decisions being made, and most people who are paying attention realize that there was never a "good" outcome to this situation.

Ah, your mistake was assuming that his arguments ever do anything besides push the narrative he wants.  That's the problem with the guy, he is bonkers, and thinks he is smart enough to convince others of his "points".  Better to just ignore the Cheeks and move on.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 07, 2020, 07:59:38 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 07, 2020, 07:47:05 PM

Just got off the phone with my Financial Adviser.
They said 3 scenarios: Great Depression 2, v-recovery or u-recovery.  Consensus in the financial world leaning towards U-shape.  Negative for 3-5 months and not every job will come back.  Should be a strong 4th Quarter.

I hope your financial advisor is right. But as we all know, “consensus” is at best an educated guess. And are they basing their projections on the US going back to work in May, June, July or at some later date. Any projection/consensus is worthless unless you know the back to work date.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 07, 2020, 08:02:56 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 07, 2020, 07:59:38 PM

I hope your financial advisor is right. But as we all know, “consensus” is at best an educated guess. And are they basing their projections on the US going back to work in May, June, July or at some later date. Any projection/consensus is worthless unless you know the back to work date.

Lenny for what it’s worth I’m hearing most in the market prepared for an extreme 2q decline.  Like autos down 50%.  It’s now a question of how much better (or less worse) is 3q and can 4q be the snap back (or does it persist into 21).

Most are contemplating an L but not planning for it yet. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on April 07, 2020, 08:05:14 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 07, 2020, 07:19:16 PM

DeSantis not closing beaches
New Yorkers still on subways.  New Yorkers encouraged to go to restaurants, parades and Broadway by New York mayor and health officials.
California letting 20 million masks expire and dismantling their pandemic program due to budget cuts
New Orleans / Louisiana allowing Marie Gras to continue
Feds ignoring pandemic warnings in 2018, 2015, 2011, 2006, 2001, 1998.
Feds acting too slowly to stop travel from China while the media tearing into decision that it was xenophobic.
Feds ignoring threat at first, issuing different threat levels that change al last daily.

Add in Federalism and States rights.  Urban vs rural.   Economic vs healthcare.

Anecdote:  Some of my relatives living in the middle of the country are furious at the shutdown economically.  They are sympathetic that some are dying, but they point out Fauci believes this will ultimately be a death rate of a severe flu season.  Other relatives think we should be held at gunpoint and shot if we leave our homes.  They want total isolation (they tend to be in urban hubs). 

You get the idea.  There is a faction that is demanding everything shut down, which legally the federal govt cannot do.  When Iowa waits, or the Dakotas that opens a risk that their leaders have said is ok.  Neighboring Minnesota may not agree, but they pay the price potentially.  When Trump proposed locking down New York, Cuomo threatened an immediate civil rights lawsuit.

Now weigh those decisions of shutting it all down or else blood is on your hands with the complete wreck of an economy?  No matter what decision is made, leaders are in a now in situation.

There is no answer to fit a country this size with our freedoms and population density variances.  We are not alone as other countries have been wrecked as well.  Some with universal healthcare, some without.

excellent summation daddy!

  leaves one with a funny(sad) feeling that some are just fine with bad news

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 07, 2020, 08:24:46 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 07, 2020, 08:02:56 PM

Lenny for what it’s worth I’m hearing most in the market prepared for an extreme 2q decline.  Like autos down 50%.  It’s now a question of how much better (or less worse) is 3q and can 4q be the snap back (or does it persist into 21).

Most are contemplating an L but not planning for it yet.

One other thing he said was the consensus included that "at some point we need to learn to live with COVID-19.  It's not going away."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Elonsmusk on April 07, 2020, 08:25:21 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 07, 2020, 05:18:32 PM

Sweden stoped using hydroxychloroquine due to patients having seizures and vision problems. Both well known side effects.

Remdesivir is in trials for COVID-19, and can (and is) be used on the same compassionate use doctrines as hydroxychloroquine.

Like I said, I'd take the advice of my doctors on what gives me the best chance to survive.

So you would rather take a drug in trials that has ZERO long term data as far as efficacy or side effects, than a drug like Hydroxy that has been around for decades?

Seems to be a much riskier proposition, but to each their own.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 07, 2020, 08:30:25 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 07, 2020, 08:05:14 PM

excellent summation daddy!

  leaves one with a funny(sad) feeling that some are just fine with bad news

It leaves me with the feeling that different people have different opinions about the best way to deal with a bad situation.

My opinion is that we need to defer to the public health experts, researchers and doctors at this time of a public health crisis, crazy as that may sound to you....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 07, 2020, 08:31:34 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 07, 2020, 08:02:56 PM

Lenny for what it’s worth I’m hearing most in the market prepared for an extreme 2q decline.  Like autos down 50%.  It’s now a question of how much better (or less worse) is 3q and can 4q be the snap back (or does it persist into 21).

Most are contemplating an L but not planning for it yet.

Frenns

Assuming that auto sales will be virtually non existent in April and early May, I’d be delighted with down 50% for the quarter. Even after we reopen people will be short cash, tons will still be out of work and credit may be difficult to come by.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 07, 2020, 08:35:21 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 07, 2020, 08:31:34 PM

Frenns

Assuming that auto sales will be virtually non existent in April and early May, I’d be delighted with down 50% for the quarter. Even after we reopen people will be short cash, tons will still be out of work and credit may be difficult to come by.

I should add globally.  So assumes Asia has some life on the auto side. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 07, 2020, 08:51:02 PM

Zimbrick dealerships are opening back up this week.  Got an email from Tom Zimbrick himself today telling me this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 07, 2020, 08:51:33 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 07, 2020, 08:35:21 PM

I should add globally.  So assumes Asia has some life on the auto side.

Fair,

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on April 07, 2020, 08:59:18 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 07, 2020, 08:30:25 PM

It leaves me with the feeling that different people have different opinions about the best way to deal with a bad situation.

My opinion is that we need to defer to the public health experts, researchers and doctors at this time of a public health crisis, crazy as that may sound to you....

  nope, not crazy to me, but who are your "experts"? 

some "experts" were predicting as of last week to expect 100,000-200,000 or MORE deaths.  that projection has come down by quite a bit already

dr zeke emanuel an "expert"?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Elonsmusk on April 07, 2020, 09:06:32 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 07, 2020, 08:02:56 PM

Lenny for what it’s worth I’m hearing most in the market prepared for an extreme 2q decline.  Like autos down 50%.  It’s now a question of how much better (or less worse) is 3q and can 4q be the snap back (or does it persist into 21).

Most are contemplating an L but not planning for it yet.

Spot on. Q2 is going to be brutal. 50% may be optimistic as far as all industries are concerned as it relates to missed earnings.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 07, 2020, 09:20:08 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 07, 2020, 08:59:18 PM

  nope, not crazy to me, but who are your "experts"?

I’m gonna feel better when folks at places like CDC, Johns Hopkins, Harvard and Mayo say it’s safe. And the folks at UDub seem to know a fair bit about this since it hit Seattle first. I haven’t seen any recommendations from them about heading out yet. In fact, most still seem troubled about the states that still haven’t implemented stay at home orders.

If you have any credible sources saying we ought to start heading out, I’d love to see them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 07, 2020, 09:29:25 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 07, 2020, 08:59:18 PM

  nope, not crazy to me, but who are your "experts"? 

some "experts" were predicting as of last week to expect 100,000-200,000 or MORE deaths.  that projection has come down by quite a bit already

Yeah, that was UDub. Their projection has come down, but it was because they got new data (you know, after the whole delay in testing fiasco). Being a healthcare professional, I’m sure you understand that projections get more accurate as you get more data.

Anyhow, their numbers assume existing social distancing requirements stay in place through the end of May. I don’t recall seeing anything about whether they’d recommend ending the restrictions at that point or not. Again, if you see any credible medical recommendations that it’s safe to lift the restrictions, I’d love to see them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 07, 2020, 09:36:33 PM

What is the pathway out of this?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 07, 2020, 09:39:24 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 07, 2020, 09:36:33 PM

What is the pathway out of this?

Haven't people told you multiple times?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 07, 2020, 09:39:32 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 07, 2020, 07:47:05 PM

Just got off the phone with my Financial Adviser.
They said 3 scenarios: Great Depression 2, v-recovery or u-recovery.  Consensus in the financial world leaning towards U-shape.  Negative for 3-5 months and not every job will come back.  Should be a strong 4th Quarter.

What will be interesting is to see how much of this the market has "priced in." Normally, during earnings season, a bad report makes a stock's price crater. But everybody knows that there will be bad reports for many -- if not most -- companies. And everybody knows that guidance for Q2 and probably Q3, as well as the full year, will be brutal. So how do investors, especially the big institutional ones, react to all that?

BTW, there is an Investing Thread, but I'm always happy to talk about investing in any thread.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 07, 2020, 09:39:43 PM

Jay Bee listen to this from dr fauci



https://www.wsj.com/podcasts/the-journal/dr-anthony-fauci-on-how-life-returns-to-normal/D5754969-7027-431E-89FA-E12788ED9879

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 07, 2020, 09:41:51 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 07, 2020, 09:39:24 PM

Haven't people told you multiple times?

Ever-changing and difficult. #LastDays

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Chili on April 07, 2020, 10:23:50 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 07, 2020, 07:47:05 PM

Just got off the phone with my Financial Adviser.
They said 3 scenarios: Great Depression 2, v-recovery or u-recovery.  Consensus in the financial world leaning towards U-shape.  Negative for 3-5 months and not every job will come back.  Should be a strong 4th Quarter.

I would say it's going to be a combo depending on the type of business and sector.

If you're a large leveraged industry who is not getting much backing from the fed - L shape
Small biz - U
Industries with well capitalized companies with good ratings and backing of the fed - V

Also don't expect a ton of growth in the next 6 mo or so with no buy backs propping up prices.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 07, 2020, 10:24:42 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 07, 2020, 09:41:51 PM

Ever-changing and difficult. #LastDays

If you start giving away all your stuff, can i have your condo?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on April 07, 2020, 10:27:30 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on April 07, 2020, 10:24:42 PM

If you start giving away all your stuff, can i have your condo?

Dibs on those Marquette photos.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 07, 2020, 10:42:51 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 07, 2020, 09:36:33 PM

What is the pathway out of this?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/07/opinion/coronavirus-smart-quarantine.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 07, 2020, 10:51:14 PM

Quote from: Elonsmusk on April 07, 2020, 08:25:21 PM

So you would rather take a drug in trials that has ZERO long term data as far as efficacy or side effects, than a drug like Hydroxy that has been around for decades?

Seems to be a much riskier proposition, but to each their own.

Except I never said any of this. You are now making crap up.

But to each their own.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 08, 2020, 08:28:45 AM

From the NYT:

Corporate leaders are increasingly announcing donations or taking pay cuts to help respond to the pandemic — and, quite probably, to keep the political heat off.

Jack Dorsey plans to donate $1 billion of his holdings in Square, or a third of his net worth, to coronavirus relief programs. The L.L.C. he is founding with the money will track its expenditure publicly via this Google Doc. It was the single biggest gift announced by a business leader thus far, but only the latest in a growing list:

• Jeff Bezos and the foundations of Michael Dell and of Bill Gates have each pledged $100 million to causes like food banks and vaccine development efforts.
• Michael Bloomberg’s philanthropic organization is spending $40 million on rapid-response teams, with a focus on Africa.
• In the finance world, Leon Black of Apollo has pledged $20 million to provide New York City health care workers with food and supplies, while Ken Griffin and other executives at Citadel have promised $15 million for vaccines and treatments.

Other chiefs are taking pay cuts. A variety of industry figures — such as Oscar Munoz of United Airlines, Arne Sorenson of Marriott, Bob Iger of Disney and Jes Staley of Barclays — are forgoing part of their pay. As top executives learned during the 2008 financial crisis, continuing to earn big bucks while workers take salary cuts or furloughs is a sure way to draw harsh scrutiny.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on April 08, 2020, 08:38:05 AM

Quote from: MU82 on April 08, 2020, 08:28:45 AM

From the NYT:

Corporate leaders are increasingly announcing donations or taking pay cuts to help respond to the pandemic — and, quite probably, to keep the political heat off.

Jack Dorsey plans to donate $1 billion of his holdings in Square, or a third of his net worth, to coronavirus relief programs. The L.L.C. he is founding with the money will track its expenditure publicly via this Google Doc. It was the single biggest gift announced by a business leader thus far, but only the latest in a growing list:

• Jeff Bezos and the foundations of Michael Dell and of Bill Gates have each pledged $100 million to causes like food banks and vaccine development efforts.
• Michael Bloomberg’s philanthropic organization is spending $40 million on rapid-response teams, with a focus on Africa.
• In the finance world, Leon Black of Apollo has pledged $20 million to provide New York City health care workers with food and supplies, while Ken Griffin and other executives at Citadel have promised $15 million for vaccines and treatments.

Other chiefs are taking pay cuts. A variety of industry figures — such as Oscar Munoz of United Airlines, Arne Sorenson of Marriott, Bob Iger of Disney and Jes Staley of Barclays — are forgoing part of their pay. As top executives learned during the 2008 financial crisis, continuing to earn big bucks while workers take salary cuts or furloughs is a sure way to draw harsh scrutiny.

Dorsey ($ 1billion) is donating 28% of his net worth. He is 168 on the Forbes 400 list. Postpandemic money will go to the healt and education of girls, and, UBI. All of it will be transparent.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 08, 2020, 08:48:25 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on April 08, 2020, 08:38:05 AM

Dorsey ($ 1billion) is donating 28% of his net worth. He is 168 on the Forbes 400 list. Postpandemic money will go to  the girl's health and education, and UBI. All of it will be transparent.

I saw this yesterday. Interesting placement of the apostrophe.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on April 08, 2020, 08:53:43 AM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 08, 2020, 08:48:25 AM

I saw this yesterday. Interesting placement of the apostrophe.

It was a typo because the sentence was originally typed in a different way to say the education and health of girls. It has been fixed. Jack Dorsey is donating $1 billion, or 28% of his net worth to COVID-19, and the health and education of girls, and UBI.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 08, 2020, 09:03:18 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on April 08, 2020, 08:53:43 AM

It was a typo because the sentence was originally typed in a different way to say the education and health of girls. It has been fixed. Jack Dorsey is donating $1 billion, or 28% of his net worth to COVID-19, and the health and education of girls, and UBI.

Oh, I'm aware...the typo was actually in Dorsey's original tweet and I noticed it yesterday.  I just thought it was kind of an amusing typo. I figured he was probably donating it to that girl who got the Zoom Hamilton performance...she's had a good week.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 08, 2020, 09:08:17 AM

Barrons on a path to reopen economy with antibody testing and tracking.

 https://www.barrons.com/articles/restart-economy-antibody-testing-cuomo-trump-51586352123?mod=bol-social-fb (https://www.barrons.com/articles/restart-economy-antibody-testing-cuomo-trump-51586352123?mod=bol-social-fb)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on April 08, 2020, 09:16:49 AM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 08, 2020, 09:03:18 AM

Oh, I'm aware...the typo was actually in Dorsey's original tweet and I noticed it yesterday.  I just thought it was kind of an amusing typo. I figured he was probably donating it to that girl who got the Zoom Hamilton performance...she's had a good week.

I suppose I'm more focused on the content of what he is doing, ... a multi billionaire donating 28% of his wealth now, today, to help those specific causes of COVID-19, as well as education and health of girls and UBI. Hopefully we will see more of it elsewhere.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 08, 2020, 09:22:10 AM

NYT: "Coronavirus Was Slow to Spread to Rural America. Not Anymore."

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/08/us/coronavirus-rural-america-cases.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

The coronavirus has officially reached more than two-thirds of the country’s rural counties, with one in 10 reporting at least one death. Doctors and elected officials are warning that a late-arriving wave of illness could overwhelm rural communities that are older, poorer and sicker than much of the country, and already dangerously short on medical help.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 08, 2020, 09:24:17 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on April 08, 2020, 09:16:49 AM

I suppose I'm more focused on the content of what he is doing, ... a multi billionaire donating 28% of his wealth now, today, to help those specific causes of COVID-19, as well as education and health of girls and UBI. Hopefully we will see more of it elsewhere.

I think it's fantastic, and nothing I said suggests otherwise.  I was simply amused by a typo.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 08, 2020, 10:16:47 AM

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/08/politics/us-intelligence-report-china-coronavirus/index.html

This report is weird if true. It would suggest at the time of the first known case of COVID-19, that US intelligence was aware of this disease and warned the Trump administration of the risks.

If true, how did we know?

And, why weren't we on the phone with China right away, trying to strategize how to trace and deal with this with teams of experts?

And given that the reports to the President referred to it as "cataclysmic" risk. Why were we so late on doing something.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 08, 2020, 10:17:44 AM

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/nyregion/new-york-coronavirus-response-delays.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

Blistering report on how Cuomo and de Blasio initially handled the situation in New York.  Frankly its miraculous that Big East teams seemingly managed to dodge this.

Also compares to how Newsome swiftly handled the situation in California.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 08, 2020, 10:35:48 AM

Quote from: forgetful on April 08, 2020, 10:16:47 AM

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/08/politics/us-intelligence-report-china-coronavirus/index.html

This report is weird if true. It would suggest at the time of the first known case of COVID-19, that US intelligence was aware of this disease and warned the Trump administration of the risks.

If true, how did we know?

And, why weren't we on the phone with China right away, trying to strategize how to trace and deal with this with teams of experts?

And given that the reports to the President referred to it as "cataclysmic" risk. Why were we so late on doing something.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/us/politics/navarro-warning-trump-coronavirus.html

I think this article about a memo from Navarro to Trump - and the severely high numbers contained within - from January is even more interesting.

Feel free to cross-reference that time frame with public commentary from the administration.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Elonsmusk on April 08, 2020, 11:16:50 AM

Quote from: forgetful on April 08, 2020, 10:16:47 AM

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/08/politics/us-intelligence-report-china-coronavirus/index.html

This report is weird if true. It would suggest at the time of the first known case of COVID-19, that US intelligence was aware of this disease and warned the Trump administration of the risks.

If true, how did we know?

And, why weren't we on the phone with China right away, trying to strategize how to trace and deal with this with teams of experts?

And given that the reports to the President referred to it as "cataclysmic" risk. Why were we so late on doing something.

Key point:  If true.  Once again relying on "unnamed sources," "the report which CNN has not independently verified," yet CNN runs the story with the headline:  ABC News:  US Intelligence Warned of China's spreading Contagion in November?  Nice game of telephone!

Sure, hindsight is 20/20 and in any crisis things could/should have been done differently.  Suggesting that failure to taken action soon enough is why the US has the most cases is a convenient fallacy.  We've run the most tests, we are the world's Number 1 country as it relates to International travelers -  and we don't lie about our numbers.

Thinking that getting on the phone with China and that they would be forthcoming about what was happening?  Really?  That's pretty naive.  The Chinese doctor who tried to alert the world has gone missing:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8173363/Wuhan-doctor-went-public-spread-coronavirus-goes-missing.html

Lastly, concurrent to all of this happening, the President was being impeached.  Our entire congressional and executive branch were wrapped up in those proceedings.  Let's not forget, Trump was quickly called "racist" and "xenophobilc," for issuing the China travel ban.  Can't have it both ways - can't criticize and rip that decision, and then argue he didn't act soon enough.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 08, 2020, 11:24:03 AM

Quote from: Elonsmusk on April 08, 2020, 11:16:50 AM

Lastly, concurrent to all of this happening, the President was being impeached.  Our entire congressional and executive branch were wrapped up in those proceedings. 

No, most of the executive branch was doing their job.  Just because people downplayed the job they were doing doesn't mean they weren't doing their job.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on April 08, 2020, 11:29:32 AM

400 NYC COVID deaths vs 727 yesterday.  Even more very encouraging news out of the epicenter

Edit: Cuomo quoted 779 for the state. Interesting breakdown

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 08, 2020, 11:34:40 AM

Quote from: Elonsmusk on April 08, 2020, 11:16:50 AM

Lastly, concurrent to all of this happening, the President was being impeached.  Our entire congressional and executive branch were wrapped up in those proceedings.  Let's not forget, Trump was quickly called "racist" and "xenophobilc," for issuing the China travel ban.  Can't have it both ways - can't criticize and rip that decision, and then argue he didn't act soon enough.

1. Our chief executive was so "wrapped up" in the impeachment proceedings that he was able to only stage 9 campaign rallies and to only play golf 6 times between the time the CDC informed him about the risks to the US and the time he finally admitted it was an emergency. Can't have it both ways.

2. He already had established himself as "racist" and "xenophobic" decades before the China travel ban, which was one of his few good actions in the first two months of the pandemic (and which wasn't a complete China travel ban, BTW).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 08, 2020, 11:35:49 AM

Quote from: Elonsmusk on April 08, 2020, 11:16:50 AM

Let's not forget, Trump was quickly called "racist" and "xenophobilc," for issuing the China travel ban.  Can't have it both ways - can't criticize and rip that decision, and then argue he didn't act soon enough.

A red herring, and a mostly untrue one at that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 08, 2020, 11:39:20 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on April 08, 2020, 11:29:32 AM

400 NYC COVID deaths vs 727 yesterday.  Even more very encouraging news out of the epicenter

#FakeNews #Lies

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 08, 2020, 11:41:19 AM

Quote from: Elonsmusk on April 08, 2020, 11:16:50 AM

Lastly, concurrent to all of this happening, the President was being impeached.  Our entire congressional and executive branch were wrapped up in those proceedings. 

Let's put to bed the patently false claim that the Republicans concocted Trump was just too busy getting Impeached to deal with the coronavirus and therefore it was Congressional Democrats faults:

Jan 8th - First CDC warning
Jan 9th - Trump campaign rally
Jan 14th - Trump campaign rally
Jan 18th - Trump golfs
Jan 19th - Trump golfs
Jan 20th - first case of corona virus in the US, Washington State.
Jan 22nd - “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. It’s going to be just fine.”
Jan 28th - Trump campaign rally
Jan 30th - Trump campaign rally
Feb 1st - Trump golfs
Feb 2nd - “We pretty much shut it down coming in from China."
Feb 10th - Trump campaign rally
Feb 15h - Trump golfs
Feb 19th - Trump campaign rally
Feb 20th - Trump campaign rally
Feb 21st - Trump campaign rally

In addition to Trump's activities putting the lie to the idea that he was too busy, for this excuse to work you'd have to admit that the President of the U.S. is incapable of handling more than one issue at a time.  But of course since he has told us he is "like, really smart" and has the biggest brain, this can't possibly be the case.
 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on April 08, 2020, 11:48:26 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 08, 2020, 11:41:19 AM

Let's put to bed the patently false claim that the Republicans concocted Trump was just too busy getting Impeached to deal with the coronavirus and therefore it was Congressional Democrats faults:

Jan 8th - First CDC warning
Jan 9th - Trump campaign rally
Jan 14th - Trump campaign rally
Jan 18th - Trump golfs
Jan 19th - Trump golfs
Jan 20th - first case of corona virus in the US, Washington State.
Jan 22nd - “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. It’s going to be just fine.”
Jan 28th - Trump campaign rally
Jan 30th - Trump campaign rally
Feb 1st - Trump golfs
Feb 2nd - “We pretty much shut it down coming in from China."
Feb 10th - Trump campaign rally
Feb 15h - Trump golfs
Feb 19th - Trump campaign rally
Feb 20th - Trump campaign rally
Feb 21st - Trump campaign rally

In addition to Trump's activities putting the lie to the idea that he was too busy, for this excuse to work you'd have to admit that the President of the U.S. is incapable of handling more than one issue at a time.  But of course since he has told us he is "like, really smart" and has the biggest brain, this can't possibly be the case.
 

Lol. No kidding.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on April 08, 2020, 12:47:17 PM

Great, now we are OVERUSING ventilators...sheesh, just can't win.

https://www.boston.com/news/health/2020/04/08/with-ventilators-running-out-doctors-say-the-machines-are-overused-for-covid-19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Elonsmusk on April 08, 2020, 12:49:40 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 08, 2020, 11:41:19 AM

Let's put to bed the patently false claim that the Republicans concocted Trump was just too busy getting Impeached to deal with the coronavirus and therefore it was Congressional Democrats faults:

Jan 8th - First CDC warning
Jan 9th - Trump campaign rally
Jan 14th - Trump campaign rally
Jan 18th - Trump golfs
Jan 19th - Trump golfs
Jan 20th - first case of corona virus in the US, Washington State.
Jan 22nd - “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. It’s going to be just fine.”
Jan 28th - Trump campaign rally
Jan 30th - Trump campaign rally
Feb 1st - Trump golfs
Feb 2nd - “We pretty much shut it down coming in from China."
Feb 10th - Trump campaign rally
Feb 15h - Trump golfs
Feb 19th - Trump campaign rally
Feb 20th - Trump campaign rally
Feb 21st - Trump campaign rally

In addition to Trump's activities putting the lie to the idea that he was too busy, for this excuse to work you'd have to admit that the President of the U.S. is incapable of handling more than one issue at a time.  But of course since he has told us he is "like, really smart" and has the biggest brain, this can't possibly be the case.
 

Thanks for the timeline.  The impeachment was a charade...you are correct - which began formulating 35 minutes after Trump won the election.  That aside, I am curious what course of action(s) people who are critical would have wanted/suggested?  New York reported its first case of COVID on March 1st.  The 2nd death in the US from COVID happened March 1st.

https://www.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-03-01-20-intl-hnk/index.html

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1102816/coronavirus-covid19-cases-number-us-americans-by-day/

Trump per usual made some grandiose and questionable comments back on January 22 as you state.  He issued the China travel ban January 31.  Looking at the above numbers/timeline, would you have shut the economy down on February 1st?  March 1st?

This pandemic is unlike any in history.  184 countries affected. 

All in all, it seems as though we've mounted a pretty good effort to quell the spread/effects/deaths since it became crystal clear this was going to become the worst Pandemic since 1917.

Unfortunate it began in China, and they report 82k cases in a country of 1.4B?  The blame for this pandemic lies squarely at the feet of China.  They are the true enemy to the U.S., and in this case the globe. All outrage and anger should be directed there, first and foremost.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 08, 2020, 12:50:43 PM

Quote from: Elonsmusk on April 08, 2020, 12:49:40 PM

That aside, I am curious what course of action(s) people who are critical would have wanted/suggested?

A question repeatedly answered in this thread.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on April 08, 2020, 01:08:08 PM

Quote from: Elonsmusk on April 08, 2020, 12:49:40 PM

Unfortunate it began in China, and they report 82k cases in a country of 1.4B?  The blame for this pandemic lies squarely at the feet of China.  They are the true enemy to the U.S., and in this case the globe. All outrage and anger should be directed there, first and foremost.

you are deflecting as a defense?

not surprising

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 08, 2020, 01:10:03 PM

Quote from: Elonsmusk on April 08, 2020, 12:49:40 PM

Unfortunate it began in China, and they report 82k cases in a country of 1.4B?  The blame for this pandemic lies squarely at the feet of China.  They are the true enemy to the U.S., and in this case the globe. All outrage and anger should be directed there, first and foremost.

Right, I was just responding to the talking point that I believe originated with the RNC and Mitch McConnell that the President's slow/non-reaction was because Democrats were distracting him. The actions that could have/should have been taken have been discussed previously.

And yes, this originated in China, and I agree with everyone that their numbers are highly suspicious. Unfortunately I don't know what control we, the U.S., or the world has over that.  The U.S. did, however, have control over our own situation. Unless you subscribe to Tom Cotton's conspiracy theory that this is a bio-weapon engineered and purposefully released by the Chinese, blaming them is of little use IMO.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Eldon on April 08, 2020, 01:10:11 PM

‘Team Umizoomi Actually Kind Of Interesting,’ Reports Stay-At-Home Dad On Verge Of Full Psychotic Breakdown

https://local.theonion.com/team-umizoomi-actually-kind-of-interesting-reports-s-1840172408

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 08, 2020, 01:21:04 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 08, 2020, 10:35:48 AM

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/us/politics/navarro-warning-trump-coronavirus.html

I think this article about a memo from Navarro to Trump - and the severely high numbers contained within - from January is even more interesting.

Feel free to cross-reference that time frame with public commentary from the administration.

This to me is the most damning piece of evidence about how Trump ignored the warnings. No "unnamed sources," but rather a very high level Administration official, which totally negates any claim that Trump acted as soon as he had any idea that it might be bad. And in yesterday's campaign event, Trump denied reading the memos. But honestly, it doesn't matter - he had the information at his fingertips, and did nothing about it for weeks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Elonsmusk on April 08, 2020, 02:02:24 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 08, 2020, 12:50:43 PM

A question repeatedly answered in this thread.

I was late to this party that has now swollen to a 142 page thread.  So, didn't see what the consensus solutions offered were, by those who are most critical/frustrated with the Administrations response.  My biggest frustration:

- No Nationwide lockdown - though I can understand the "why" as to why that wasn't implemented  I do not feel leaving each state to decide on their own was the right call.

- Trump calling it a Democratic hoax was stupid AF, not the first or last time he'll make a dumb comment.  However, after the Russian collusion and Impeachment proceedings, he no doubt was on the attack.

I believe that even with the stark warning from Navarro at end of January, shutting down travel from China was a pretty big step (had never been done before, nor had any other country in the world taken such a step.)

That aside, based on the data, reported numbers that came out during month of February and even first week of March - would ANYONE really have shut the economy down at that point?  States weren't shutting things down, schools were in session, etc.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 08, 2020, 02:38:51 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 08, 2020, 01:21:04 PM

This to me is the most damning piece of evidence about how Trump ignored the warnings. No "unnamed sources," but rather a very high level Administration official, which totally negates any claim that Trump acted as soon as he had any idea that it might be bad. And in yesterday's campaign event, Trump denied reading the memos. But honestly, it doesn't matter - he had the information at his fingertips, and did nothing about it for weeks.

One more from The Onion

---

Damning Report Finds White House Ignored Skeletal Horsemen Galloping Through Sky As Early As January
https://www.theonion.com/damning-report-finds-white-house-ignored-skeletal-horse-1842754580?utm_source=TheOnion_Daily_RSS&utm_medium=email

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 08, 2020, 02:54:24 PM

Quote from: Elonsmusk on April 08, 2020, 02:02:24 PM

I was late to this party that has now swollen to a 142 page thread.  So, didn't see what the consensus solutions offered were, by those who are most critical/frustrated with the Administrations response.  My biggest frustration:

- No Nationwide lockdown - though I can understand the "why" as to why that wasn't implemented  I do not feel leaving each state to decide on their own was the right call.

- Trump calling it a Democratic hoax was stupid AF, not the first or last time he'll make a dumb comment.  However, after the Russian collusion and Impeachment proceedings, he no doubt was on the attack.

I believe that even with the stark warning from Navarro at end of January, shutting down travel from China was a pretty big step (had never been done before, nor had any other country in the world taken such a step.)

That aside, based on the data, reported numbers that came out during month of February and even first week of March - would ANYONE really have shut the economy down at that point?  States weren't shutting things down, schools were in session, etc.

I'll give you a super easy one: mobilize whatever federal resources necessary to ensure our healthcare workers have the supplies they would need when the pandemic hit us. That could have been down early on and likely would have helped.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 08, 2020, 03:01:14 PM

If an emergency order for millions of gowns, N95s, surgical masks, face shields, gloves, soap, disinfectant, etc. had been placed in the first couple weeks of January, the federal government would be the heroes right now.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 08, 2020, 03:04:13 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 08, 2020, 02:38:51 PM

One more from The Onion

---

Damning Report Finds White House Ignored Skeletal Horsemen Galloping Through Sky As Early As January
https://www.theonion.com/damning-report-finds-white-house-ignored-skeletal-horse-1842754580?utm_source=TheOnion_Daily_RSS&utm_medium=email

Thanks - I really needed the laugh!

 ;D

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 08, 2020, 04:04:26 PM

Quote from: Elonsmusk on April 08, 2020, 12:49:40 PM

The blame for this pandemic lies squarely at the feet of China.

Well, Ners, you're not blaming Wojo, so I guess that's progress!

How should President Pandemic have handled things differently, you asked ...

How about not forcing states to bid against each other and the federal government for PPE and ventilators?

How about not denying aid and equipment to states whose governors he doesn't like?

How about not letting maintenance contracts on life-saving equipment lapse in 2018 and not dismantling the NSC's global health security office that same year?

How about not lying to the American public dozens (if not hundreds) of times about the severity of the problem? Those lies were backed up by endless lies from his embarrassingly cloying Fox News cohorts, insuring that millions upon millions of gullible people would totally dismiss the coming pandemic.

How about not letting his red-state buddies keep beaches and churches open to serve as COVID-19 incubators?

How about not pushing his experts aside at his press conferences and then contradicting what they said, giving Americans a false sense of security?

How about educating himself as to how pandemics spread and not pretending we'd be down to "close to zero" cases "within days"?

Having listened to his experts (which he didn't) and educating himself (which he didn't), how about stockpiling the equipment we would need to survive the pandemic without so much loss of life?

How about, instead of going to rallies and getting his easily conned followers into a lather over the Dem "hoax," he had been honest with them instead? Maybe doing so would have convinced the deniers that this thing was serious. Maybe had they been led properly by their emperor, they would have paid more attention to social-distancing rules and other strong recommendations.

Once it was here and infecting people, how about getting extremely proactive by ensuring adequate PPE supplies, convincing governors (especially those friendly to him) to shut down their states, etc.

How about putting competent people, preferably those not married to his daughter, in charge of the effort?

How about taking even a smidge of responsibility for any of this?

How about not patting himself on the back if "only" 100K die?

Etc, etc, etc ... as discussed many times earlier in this thread.

I made the joke about Wojo to start this post, Ners, but I do find it funny that you are ever willing to hold a basketball coach accountable for failings on his watch -- so willing that you'll go on and on and on until you get yourself banned multiple times. But you are not willing to hold the president of the United States accountable for failings on his watch.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 08, 2020, 04:15:40 PM

^^^

Solid list, MU82.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 08, 2020, 04:32:10 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 08, 2020, 04:15:40 PM

^^^

Solid list, MU82.

Was going to say the same.

Impressive like you were a columnist once upon a time!

FWIW - David Frum supposedly has a blistering 13 page one just out today at The Atlantic going into detail on all of this.  I have not seen yet.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 08, 2020, 04:59:48 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 08, 2020, 04:04:26 PM

Well, Ners, you're not blaming Wojo, so I guess that's progress!

How should President Pandemic have handled things differently, you asked ...

How about not forcing states to bid against each other and the federal government for PPE and ventilators?

How about not denying aid and equipment to states whose governors he doesn't like?

How about not letting maintenance contracts on life-saving equipment lapse in 2018 and not dismantling the NSC's global health security office that same year?

How about not lying to the American public dozens (if not hundreds) of times about the severity of the problem? Those lies were backed up by endless lies from his embarrassingly cloying Fox News cohorts, insuring that millions upon millions of gullible people would totally dismiss the coming pandemic.

How about not letting his red-state buddies keep beaches and churches open to serve as COVID-19 incubators?

How about not pushing his experts aside at his press conferences and then contradicting what they said, giving Americans a false sense of security?

How about educating himself as to how pandemics spread and not pretending we'd be down to "close to zero" cases "within days"?

Having listened to his experts (which he didn't) and educating himself (which he didn't), how about stockpiling the equipment we would need to survive the pandemic without so much loss of life?

How about, instead of going to rallies and getting his easily conned followers into a lather over the Dem "hoax," he had been honest with them instead? Maybe doing so would have convinced the deniers that this thing was serious. Maybe had they been led properly by their emperor, they would have paid more attention to social-distancing rules and other strong recommendations.

Once it was here and infecting people, how about getting extremely proactive by ensuring adequate PPE supplies, convincing governors (especially those friendly to him) to shut down their states, etc.

How about putting competent people, preferably those not married to his daughter, in charge of the effort?

How about taking even a smidge of responsibility for any of this?

How about not patting himself on the back if "only" 100K die?

Etc, etc, etc ... as discussed many times earlier in this thread.

I made the joke about Wojo to start this post, Ners, but I do find it funny that you are ever willing to hold a basketball coach accountable for failings on his watch -- so willing that you'll go on and on and on until you get yourself banned multiple times. But you are not willing to hold the president of the United States accountable for failings on his watch.

A big one.  Sending mixed messages about the length needed to stay at home.  Saying that he wanted things open by Easter and that "the cure can't be worse than the disease," which caused the Texas Lt Gov to suggest that grandma could by sacrificed for the sake 401(k)'s everwhere, only to back track less than a week later.  Which is one of the reason we have this mish-mash of stay at home orders.

It just magnified his weaknesses.  Lack of attention to detail.  Lack of willingness to listen to experts.  Surrounding himself with "yes men" and "blonde women" who tell him what he wants to hear versus having his own beliefs challenged.

And most of all, his anti-Harry Truman belief that the buck always stops somewhere else.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 08, 2020, 05:18:16 PM

It's crap like this that makes me think this is going to continue to roll along.

Lawmakers overturn religious worship size limits in Kansas
Lawmakers have overturned Gov. Laura Kelly’s executive order restricting the size of religious gatherings amid the coronavirus outbreak after the state’s top prosecutor said it likely violates the state constitution.

The Legislative Coordinating Council voted 5-2 Wednesday to topple the order that limited in-person religious services and funerals to 10 people.

The move came after Attorney General Derek Schmidt, a Republican, said that while the order was “sound public-health advice that Kansans should follow,” he was discouraging law enforcement agencies and prosecutors statewide from attempting to enforce the requirements. With Easter approaching, Kelly, a Democrat, issued the order Tuesday because of three outbreaks that had been connected to religious gatherings.

https://www.kwch.com/content/news/Kansas-AG-says-religious-restrictions-not-enforceable-569479791.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 08, 2020, 05:28:24 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 08, 2020, 05:18:16 PM

It's crap like this that makes me think this is going to continue to roll along.

Lawmakers overturn religious worship size limits in Kansas

Unfortunately, I fear you may be right.

Mardi Gras in New Orleans, Spring Break in Florida, now Easter services at various places in the Bible Belt. Ugh.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 08, 2020, 05:29:43 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 08, 2020, 05:18:16 PM

It's crap like this that makes me think this is going to continue to roll along.

Lawmakers overturn religious worship size limits in Kansas
Lawmakers have overturned Gov. Laura Kelly’s executive order restricting the size of religious gatherings amid the coronavirus outbreak after the state’s top prosecutor said it likely violates the state constitution.

The Legislative Coordinating Council voted 5-2 Wednesday to topple the order that limited in-person religious services and funerals to 10 people.

The move came after Attorney General Derek Schmidt, a Republican, said that while the order was “sound public-health advice that Kansans should follow,” he was discouraging law enforcement agencies and prosecutors statewide from attempting to enforce the requirements. With Easter approaching, Kelly, a Democrat, issued the order Tuesday because of three outbreaks that had been connected to religious gatherings.

https://www.kwch.com/content/news/Kansas-AG-says-religious-restrictions-not-enforceable-569479791.html

It's crap like this that makes me believe politics, as opposed to citizens, are going to ruin the country

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 08, 2020, 05:32:32 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 08, 2020, 05:29:43 PM

It's crap like this that makes me believe politics, as opposed to citizens, are going to ruin the country

Guns 'n God, baby. Guns 'n God.

As I said in the other thread, they're only killing their own.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 08, 2020, 05:37:24 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 08, 2020, 04:32:10 PM

Was going to say the same.

Impressive like you were a columnist once upon a time!

FWIW - David Frum supposedly has a blistering 13 page one just out today at The Atlantic going into detail on all of this.  I have not seen yet.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/04/americans-are-paying-the-price-for-trumps-failures/609532/

Not behind a paywall.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Johnny B on April 08, 2020, 06:19:42 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 08, 2020, 05:32:32 PM

Guns 'n God, baby. Guns 'n God.

As I said in the other thread, they're only killing their own.

I never understood the connection there. Is jesus a big gun lover?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Johnny B on April 08, 2020, 06:23:49 PM

Religion isnt supposed to get special treatment. If there arent restrictions on chruch gathering size then others can gather in large groups for other things to. Obviously none of it should be allowed. Does baffle me some peoples main concern with all this is they have some temporary restrictions on where they can go and with how many people.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on April 08, 2020, 06:57:33 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 08, 2020, 04:04:26 PM

Well, Ners, you're not blaming Wojo, so I guess that's progress!

How should President Pandemic have handled things differently, you asked ...

How about not forcing states to bid against each other and the federal government for PPE and ventilators?

How about not denying aid and equipment to states whose governors he doesn't like?

How about not letting maintenance contracts on life-saving equipment lapse in 2018 and not dismantling the NSC's global health security office that same year?

How about not lying to the American public dozens (if not hundreds) of times about the severity of the problem? Those lies were backed up by endless lies from his embarrassingly cloying Fox News cohorts, insuring that millions upon millions of gullible people would totally dismiss the coming pandemic.

How about not letting his red-state buddies keep beaches and churches open to serve as COVID-19 incubators?

How about not pushing his experts aside at his press conferences and then contradicting what they said, giving Americans a false sense of security?

How about educating himself as to how pandemics spread and not pretending we'd be down to "close to zero" cases "within days"?

Having listened to his experts (which he didn't) and educating himself (which he didn't), how about stockpiling the equipment we would need to survive the pandemic without so much loss of life?

How about, instead of going to rallies and getting his easily conned followers into a lather over the Dem "hoax," he had been honest with them instead? Maybe doing so would have convinced the deniers that this thing was serious. Maybe had they been led properly by their emperor, they would have paid more attention to social-distancing rules and other strong recommendations.

Once it was here and infecting people, how about getting extremely proactive by ensuring adequate PPE supplies, convincing governors (especially those friendly to him) to shut down their states, etc.

How about putting competent people, preferably those not married to his daughter, in charge of the effort?

How about taking even a smidge of responsibility for any of this?

How about not patting himself on the back if "only" 100K die?

Etc, etc, etc ... as discussed many times earlier in this thread.

I made the joke about Wojo to start this post, Ners, but I do find it funny that you are ever willing to hold a basketball coach accountable for failings on his watch -- so willing that you'll go on and on and on until you get yourself banned multiple times. But you are not willing to hold the president of the United States accountable for failings on his watch.

So what you're saying is if Republicans and congress won't hold him accountable, maybe the NCAA will suspend him for lack of organizational control.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 08, 2020, 07:12:21 PM

Lefties, what do you think the best path is from today?

I feel we’re just delaying things. I understand the things we probably need, but no promise as to when they’ll come.

These past couple of weeks have told me (talking not just fed, but state & local levels) that the current approach is “fu(k, we need time to figure this out. Please stay home so it doesn’t get crazy wild super fast”.

I don’t see answers/plans.. just buying time. Maybe a weather plan as well, which is scary from a longer term view.

Earth is done. #LastDays

But curious if the lefties on here have thoughts on what should be done at THIS point in time.  (Aside from “be nicer in press conferences, etc)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 08, 2020, 07:13:57 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 08, 2020, 07:12:21 PM

Lefties, what do you think the best path is from today?

I feel we’re just delaying things. I understand the things we probably need, but no promise as to when they’ll come.

These past couple of weeks have told me (talking not just fed, but state & local levels) that the current approach is “fu(k, we need time to figure this out. Please stay home so it doesn’t get crazy wild super fast”.

I don’t see answers/plans.. just buying time. Maybe a weather plan as well, which is scary from a longer term view.

Earth is done. #LastDays

But curious if the lefties on here have thoughts on what should be done at THIS point in time.  (Aside from “be nicer in press conferences, etc)

People have told you multiple times. Including the article I linked

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 08, 2020, 07:25:07 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 08, 2020, 07:13:57 PM

People have told you multiple times. Including the article I linked

So, no current plan as of today. Great

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on April 08, 2020, 07:29:54 PM

Two words: Massive Testing

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on April 08, 2020, 07:35:28 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 08, 2020, 07:12:21 PM

Lefties, what do you think the best path is from today?

I feel we’re just delaying things. I understand the things we probably need, but no promise as to when they’ll come.

These past couple of weeks have told me (talking not just fed, but state & local levels) that the current approach is “fu(k, we need time to figure this out. Please stay home so it doesn’t get crazy wild super fast”.

I don’t see answers/plans.. just buying time. Maybe a weather plan as well, which is scary from a longer term view.

Earth is done. #LastDays

But curious if the lefties on here have thoughts on what should be done at THIS point in time.  (Aside from “be nicer in press conferences, etc)

It sucks someone in your building got the rona, and now you are petrified.  But this has to be the 15th time you asked this question.  None of us have a crystal ball, but numerous folks have answered their best guess.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 08, 2020, 07:43:20 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 08, 2020, 07:29:54 PM

Two words: Massive Testing

But we can’t currently do that, yes? Why not and when can we? If you can get it more than once, does it help?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 08, 2020, 08:00:21 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 08, 2020, 05:32:32 PM

As I said in the other thread, they're only killing their own.

No, they will then go spread it at the gas station, at the grocery store, at the pharmacy, anywhere and everywhere, regardless of political affiliation.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 08, 2020, 08:15:37 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 08, 2020, 07:25:07 PM

So, no current plan as of today. Great

It just hasn't changed.  Get on board.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 08, 2020, 08:16:17 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 08, 2020, 07:25:07 PM

So, no current plan as of today. Great

Not from the administration. Not even criteria for making a determination of when to start an opening. I guess hope is the current strategy.

But, for the extremely dense, to highlight what others have repeatedly pointed out, Testing and Tracing are key. Sadly, neither are being pursued on a national level.

Over under for how many posts before Jay Bee asks again???

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 08, 2020, 08:30:13 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 08, 2020, 07:29:54 PM

Two words: Massive Testing

I'd rather see a test to see if you've already had it.  And a vaccine but an antibody test first.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on April 08, 2020, 08:33:25 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 08, 2020, 05:32:32 PM

Guns 'n God, baby. Guns 'n God.

The security blankets of the weak and ignorant.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 08, 2020, 08:34:26 PM

Quote from: Retire0 on April 08, 2020, 08:33:25 PM

The security blankets of the weak and ignorant.

The strong and smart prefer cocaine and hookers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 08, 2020, 08:35:24 PM

Social distance, even in the south.   Shut down church services.  Vote by mail.  Pursue ALL medical options.   Ramp up production in America for all of the PPE and sanitizers we need.   Think how many jobs that will save.  Test everybody multiple times.  Until there is a treatment for the extreme cases and a vaccine.
     Quit whining and figure out how you can help others.  Don't hoard.   Order carry out.   Be patient.   Listen to scientists.   Send some pizzas to hospitals.   Give blood.   Unless you are infected, there is something you can do to help someone

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 08, 2020, 08:39:32 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on April 08, 2020, 08:34:26 PM

The strong and smart prefer cocaine and hookers.

Exactly!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 08, 2020, 08:39:49 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on April 08, 2020, 08:30:13 PM

I'd rather see a test to see if you've already had it.  And a vaccine but an antibody test first.

Hear hear

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 08, 2020, 08:50:29 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 08, 2020, 07:43:20 PM

But we can’t currently do that, yes? Why not and when can we? If you can get it more than once, does it help?

Well it is not happening anytime soon, when the government is cutting off funding for some testing sites.

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/08/829955099/federal-support-for-coronavirus-testing-sites-end-as-peak-nears

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 08, 2020, 08:50:35 PM

An interesting read from smart people.
https://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/National-Coronavirus-Response-a-Road-Map-to-Recovering-2.pdf

For those that will immediately go tl;dr main suggestions on criteria to re-open. For folks with even shorter attention spans, just read the bolded part.


Hospitals in the state must be able to safely treat all patients requiring hospitalization, without resorting to crisis standards of care.

Other cities and states fear that they will approach New York City’s state of crisis. They’re trying to increase the number of available beds and ventilators — as well as doctors, nurses and other health care providers — to make sure they aren’t overwhelmed in their capacity to provide care to all those who need it.

This is the most immediate bar, and the focus of most public health officials’ attention. At the moment, there’s no reason to believe any area is over a surge of cases, and analysts’ models predict many places won’t peak for weeks to come.

A state needs to be able to at least test everyone who has symptoms.

Dr. Gottlieb and colleagues estimate that the nation would need to have the capacity to run 750,000 tests a week — this is after things have calmed down greatly. There are times we might need even more.

“The 750,000 number should be viewed as a reasonable expectation for when we haven’t been having any major pockets or regional outbreaks to manage,” said Mark McClellan, an author of the report and a professor of business, medicine and policy at Duke. “If more testing to help contain outbreaks and potential outbreaks is needed, which seems very plausible, especially early on, the number would need to be significantly larger. We’ll also have to do some surveillance of people without symptoms, especially in higher-risk settings.”

A national estimate means less in deciding whether a state can reopen than its local capabilities. A state would need to be sure it could test every single person who might be infected, and have the results in a timely manner. That would be the only way to achieve the next requirement.

The state is able to conduct monitoring of confirmed cases and contacts.

A robust system of contact tracing and isolation is the only thing that can prevent an outbreak and a resulting lockdown from recurring. Every time an individual tests positive, the public health infrastructure needs to be able to determine whom that person has been in close contact with, find those people, and have them go into isolation or quarantine until it’s established they aren’t infected, too.

This will be a big challenge for most areas. Other countries have relied on cellphone tracking technology to determine whom people have been near. We don’t have anything like that ready, nor is it even clear we’d allow it. The United States also doesn’t have enough people working in public health in many areas to carry out this task.

Building that capacity will take significant time and money, and the country hasn’t even started.

There must be a sustained reduction in cases for at least 14 days.

Because it can take up to two weeks for symptoms to emerge, any infections that have already happened can take that long to appear. If the number of cases in an area is dropping steadily for that much time, however, public health officials can be reasonably comfortable that suppression has been achieved, defined by every infected person infecting fewer than one other.

In suppression, cases will dwindle at an exponential fashion, just as they rose. It’s not possible to set a benchmark number for every state because the number of infections that will be manageable in any area depends on the local population and the public health system’s ability to handle sporadic cases.

“We wanted to suggest criteria that would allow locations to safely and thoughtfully begin to reopen, but what that looks like exactly will vary from state to state,” said Caitlin Rivers, another author of the report and an epidemiologist at the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security. “We therefore included some flexibility for jurisdictions to tailor these criteria to their local context.”

These four criteria are a baseline. Other experts think we will need to add serological testing, which is different from the viral detection going on now. This type of testing looks for antibodies in the blood that our bodies created to fight the infection, not the infection itself. These tests can be much cheaper and faster than the ones we’re currently using to detect the virus in sick people.

Testing for antibodies will tell us how many people in a community have already been infected, as opposed to currently infected, and may also provide information about future immunity.

Gregg Gonsalves, a professor of epidemiology and law at Yale, said: “I’d feel better if we had serological testing, and could preferentially allow those who are antibody positive and no longer infectious to return to work first. The point is, though, that we are nowhere even near accomplishing any of these criteria. Opening up before then will be met with a resurgence of the virus.”

He added, “That’s the thing that keeps me up every night.”

Until we get a vaccine or effective drug treatments, focusing on these major criteria, and directing efforts toward them, should help us determine how we are progressing locally, and how we might achieve each goal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Elonsmusk on April 08, 2020, 08:54:27 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 08, 2020, 04:04:26 PM

Well, Ners, you're not blaming Wojo, so I guess that's progress!

How should President Pandemic have handled things differently, you asked ...

How about not forcing states to bid against each other and the federal government for PPE and ventilators?

How about not denying aid and equipment to states whose governors he doesn't like?

How about not letting maintenance contracts on life-saving equipment lapse in 2018 and not dismantling the NSC's global health security office that same year?

How about not lying to the American public dozens (if not hundreds) of times about the severity of the problem? Those lies were backed up by endless lies from his embarrassingly cloying Fox News cohorts, insuring that millions upon millions of gullible people would totally dismiss the coming pandemic.

How about not letting his red-state buddies keep beaches and churches open to serve as COVID-19 incubators?

How about not pushing his experts aside at his press conferences and then contradicting what they said, giving Americans a false sense of security?

How about educating himself as to how pandemics spread and not pretending we'd be down to "close to zero" cases "within days"?

Having listened to his experts (which he didn't) and educating himself (which he didn't), how about stockpiling the equipment we would need to survive the pandemic without so much loss of life?

How about, instead of going to rallies and getting his easily conned followers into a lather over the Dem "hoax," he had been honest with them instead? Maybe doing so would have convinced the deniers that this thing was serious. Maybe had they been led properly by their emperor, they would have paid more attention to social-distancing rules and other strong recommendations.

Once it was here and infecting people, how about getting extremely proactive by ensuring adequate PPE supplies, convincing governors (especially those friendly to him) to shut down their states, etc.

How about putting competent people, preferably those not married to his daughter, in charge of the effort?

How about taking even a smidge of responsibility for any of this?

How about not patting himself on the back if "only" 100K die?

Etc, etc, etc ... as discussed many times earlier in this thread.

I made the joke about Wojo to start this post, Ners, but I do find it funny that you are ever willing to hold a basketball coach accountable for failings on his watch -- so willing that you'll go on and on and on until you get yourself banned multiple times. But you are not willing to hold the president of the United States accountable for failings on his watch.

Considering China lied extensively about the severity of this, and they were the earliest data point - why would our government have spent billions of dollars on PPE and Ventilators, when to this day there are a reported 82,000 cases in China, a country 4x the size of the U.S., and only 3,000 deaths.

The World Health Organization didn't claim this as a public health emergency until January 30th.  We had ZERO context around how contagious and how fast this was spreading until it hit Italy/Spain

I was surprised to learn that the U.S. is NOT the Number 1 international travel destination, but that the top 5 are France, Spain, US, China, Italy.  Take a look at COVID cases/deaths in those countries, notice one is not like the other?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_rankings

No surprise these European countries also struggled due to large international travel.  However, I would surmise that the travel between China and the US, greatly exceeds that of China to Italy, Spain, France.

Considering Italy has 60 million people, France, 66 million, and Spain 46 million - I would say our country at 330 million is doing quite well as it relates to deaths - especially considering we had an estimated 12,700 deaths from the Swine Flu of 2009, which had a miniscule mortality rate of .0002

https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/estimates/April_March_13.htm

The current global mortality rate of Covid 19 is 5.8%

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Guess those leaders of Europe sure suck too.  And why would Trump take any responsibility for a pandemic that has struck 184 countries? 

Your list sounds like a list of Huff Post/MSNBC/CNN/WashPost/NYTimes talking points.  Go ahead and link the sources to your above "facts."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on April 08, 2020, 08:58:48 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on April 08, 2020, 08:34:26 PM

The strong and smart prefer cocaine and hookers.

Yessssssir! Ain’t no worries when you’re skiing them slopes.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 08, 2020, 09:20:11 PM

Turns out it is Europe’s fault
 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/science/new-york-coronavirus-cases-europe-genomes.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/science/new-york-coronavirus-cases-europe-genomes.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 08, 2020, 09:29:18 PM

Quote from: Elonsmusk on April 08, 2020, 08:54:27 PM

Your list sounds like a list of Huff Post/MSNBC/CNN/WashPost/NYTimes talking points. 

Perfect response. Dismiss ... deny ... parrot your emperor whining about the "enemy of the people" media.

Get out of your bubble and listen to what even some Republicans are saying about your hero's response to the pandemic. For example, Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan said last week: "President Trump is suggesting that the testing problems are over, they've been fixed. It's no longer an issue. Yeah, that's just not true. ... No state has enough testing."

"Yeah, that's just not true." If ever a line captured the essence of the Trump presidency, that's it.

But hey, that lifelong conservative and son a former conservative congressman is just another lib reciting Huff Post/MSNBC/CNN/WashPost/NYTimes talking points, right?

Look, Ners, you want to learn the truth beyond the links that multiple Scoopers already have posted (and beyond the obvious)? Do some effen googling and educate yourself. I mean, it's pretty damn easy to find evidence of your hero threatening governors that U.S. citizens will not get the supplies they need if those governors aren't "appreciative" enough.

I've learned it's not worth going back and forth with those who have willingly accepted being conned by a guy who has been a professional charlatan since way before he was discriminating against the black folks who lived in his NY slums.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 08, 2020, 09:31:28 PM

Quote from: Elonsmusk on April 08, 2020, 08:54:27 PM

Considering China lied extensively about the severity of this, and they were the earliest data point - why would our government have spent billions of dollars on PPE and Ventilators, when to this day there are a reported 82,000 cases in China, a country 4x the size of the U.S., and only 3,000 deaths.

The World Health Organization didn't claim this as a public health emergency until January 30th.  We had ZERO context around how contagious and how fast this was spreading until it hit Italy/Spain

Yes, those were the Fox talking points yesterday. No need to repeat them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 08, 2020, 09:37:41 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 08, 2020, 07:25:07 PM

So, no current plan as of today. Great

Trust the governors and mayors - except in the South.

Whether you choose Ds like Newsom, Inslee, Cuomo, Pritzger, Evers, Whitmer, or Rs like Hogan, Dewine, or Baker. THEY will make the right decisions. Do not trust our "leader" and his dog & pony daily show.

Talked to a very liberal buddy of mine from Ohio this afternoon and he gushed about the job Dewine (R) is doing. Unusual words, coming from him.

But, sad to say, these are the only people who will lead us out of this when the time is right.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 08, 2020, 09:42:08 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on April 08, 2020, 08:30:13 PM

I'd rather see a test to see if you've already had it.  And a vaccine but an antibody test first.

Mayo Clinic has been offering that test since Monday. http://outbreaknewstoday.com/covid-19-antibody-test-mayo-clinic-to-release-test-monday-65897/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 08, 2020, 10:22:22 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 08, 2020, 05:37:24 PM

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/04/americans-are-paying-the-price-for-trumps-failures/609532/

Not behind a paywall.

This is quite a passage from that article:

At a session with state governors on February 10, Trump predicted that the virus would quickly disappear on its own. “Now, the virus that we’re talking about having to do—you know, a lot of people think that goes away in April with the heat—as the heat comes in. Typically, that will go away in April. We’re in great shape though. We have 12 cases—11 cases, and many of them are in good shape now.” On February 14, Trump repeated his assurance that the virus would disappear by itself. He tweeted again on February 24 that he had the virus “very much under control in the USA.” On February 27, he said that the virus would disappear “like a miracle.”

Those two assumptions led him to conclude that not much else needed to be done. Senator Chris Murphy left a White House briefing on February 5, and tweeted:

Just left the Administration briefing on Coronavirus. Bottom line: they aren’t taking this seriously enough. Notably, no request for ANY emergency funding, which is a big mistake. Local health systems need supplies, training, screening staff etc. And they need it now.

Trump and his supporters now say that he was distracted from responding to the crisis by his impeachment. Even if it were true, pleading that the defense of your past egregious misconduct led to your present gross failures is not much of an excuse.

But if Trump and his senior national-security aides were distracted, impeachment was not the only reason, or even the principal reason. The period when the virus gathered momentum in Hubei province was also the period during which the United States seemed on the brink of war with Iran. Through the fall of 2019, tensions escalated between the two countries. The United States blamed an Iranian-linked militia for a December 27 rocket attack on a U.S. base in Iraq, triggering tit-for-tat retaliation that would lead to the U.S. killing General Qassem Soleimani on January 3, open threats of war by the United States on January 6, and the destruction of a civilian airliner over Tehran on January 8.

The preoccupation with Iran may account for why Trump paid so little attention to the virus, despite the many warnings. On January 18, Trump—on a golf excursion in Palm Beach, Florida—cut off his health secretary’s telephoned warning of gathering danger to launch into a lecture about vaping, The Washington Post reported.

Two days later, the first documented U.S. case was confirmed in Washington State.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 08, 2020, 10:38:20 PM

Quote from: Elonsmusk on April 08, 2020, 08:54:27 PM

Considering China lied extensively about the severity of this, and they were the earliest data point - why would our government have spent billions of dollars on PPE and Ventilators, when to this day there are a reported 82,000 cases in China, a country 4x the size of the U.S., and only 3,000 deaths.

The World Health Organization didn't claim this as a public health emergency until January 30th.  We had ZERO context around how contagious and how fast this was spreading until it hit Italy/Spain

I was surprised to learn that the U.S. is NOT the Number 1 international travel destination, but that the top 5 are France, Spain, US, China, Italy.  Take a look at COVID cases/deaths in those countries, notice one is not like the other?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_rankings

No surprise these European countries also struggled due to large international travel.  However, I would surmise that the travel between China and the US, greatly exceeds that of China to Italy, Spain, France.

Considering Italy has 60 million people, France, 66 million, and Spain 46 million - I would say our country at 330 million is doing quite well as it relates to deaths - especially considering we had an estimated 12,700 deaths from the Swine Flu of 2009, which had a miniscule mortality rate of .0002

https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/estimates/April_March_13.htm

The current global mortality rate of Covid 19 is 5.8%

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Guess those leaders of Europe sure suck too.  And why would Trump take any responsibility for a pandemic that has struck 184 countries? 

Your list sounds like a list of Huff Post/MSNBC/CNN/WashPost/NYTimes talking points.  Go ahead and link the sources to your above "facts."

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2001316?page=2#article_comments

This was published on Jan. 29th. It has all the pertinent data regarding how easily it spreads and the risk, and also what needs to be done (and was done by China) to contain it.

Some countries used the data in a productive way (South Korea, Taiwan). Others ignored it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on April 08, 2020, 11:13:13 PM

Again, absolutely terrifying that people here actually think this administration has properly handled the response to this global pandemic. At any step of the way, really.

Other countries mishandling their response to it doesn’t give our administration a free pass. As we say on Scoop, that is very dumb and dangerous thinking.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 09, 2020, 02:49:30 AM

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/08/829955099/federal-support-for-coronavirus-testing-sites-end-as-peak-nears?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=atc&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20200408

Uh. Wut?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on April 09, 2020, 07:15:28 AM

Quote from: wadesworld on April 08, 2020, 11:13:13 PM

Again, absolutely terrifying that people here actually think this administration has properly handled the response to this global pandemic. At any step of the way, really.

Other countries mishandling their response to it doesn’t give our administration a free pass. As we say on Scoop, that is very dumb and dangerous thinking.

American Exceptionalism is dead. We now compare ourselves to other countries when convenient, and when we don't measure up we give excuses.

We are all to blame. Status quo is accepted on nearly every issue.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 09, 2020, 07:27:16 AM

Quote from: wadesworld on April 08, 2020, 11:13:13 PM

Again, absolutely terrifying that people here actually think this administration has properly handled the response to this global pandemic. At any step of the way, really.

I don't.  I really don't.  At all.  But I think it's absolutely terrifying that people here actually believe this administration (which includes people other than Trump, btw) has completely botched the response to this global pandemic at every step of the way.  I read things here and elsewhere that are are overly critical and untrue.  That's the problem with bias in either direction.  If someone is biased and attacks and/or defends everything then credibility is lost.  I agree Trump has little credibility because he lies and says stupid stuff.  Unfortunately, I also think many who criticize Trump have little credibility because they lie and say stupid stuff. As always, the truth lies in the middle.

I've tried to resist being drawn into the political.  I will now resume trying.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 09, 2020, 07:37:15 AM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 09, 2020, 07:27:16 AM

I don't.  I really don't.  At all.  But I think it's absolutely terrifying that people here actually believe this administration (which includes people other than Trump, btw) has completely botched the response to this global pandemic at every step of the way.  I read things here and elsewhere that are are overly critical and untrue.  That's the problem with bias in either direction.  If someone is biased and attacks and/or defends everything then credibility is lost.  I agree Trump has little credibility because he lies and says stupid stuff.  Unfortunately, I also think many who criticize Trump have little credibility because they lie and say stupid stuff. As always, the truth lies in the middle.

I've tried to resist being drawn into the political.  I will now resume trying.

I agree with you to some extent.  Some of the criticisms of Trump are really minor and not productive.  And yes the administration has done good things too.  No doubt.

The biggest problems were the delay in recognizing the problem (and while China does deserve SOME blame for that, you are warping time if you think the administration does not), and the continued mixed messaging about what needs to be done.

As I said earlier, if he would have simply said back in late March "we are shutting everything down until the end of April and I'm calling on Congress to pass a relief bill," then hounded governors who didn't comply, and stuck to his guns with the messaging, we would all be better off.  But the waffling and differing messages doesn't help.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 09, 2020, 07:42:24 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 09, 2020, 07:37:15 AM

I agree with you to some extent.  Some of the criticisms of Trump are really minor and not productive.  And yes the administration has done good things too.  No doubt.

The biggest problems were the delay in recognizing the problem (and while China does deserve SOME blame for that, you are warping time if you think the administration does not), and the continued mixed messaging about what needs to be done.

As I said earlier, if he would have simply said back in late March "we are shutting everything down until the end of April and I'm calling on Congress to pass a relief bill," then hounded governors who didn't comply, and stuck to his guns with the messaging, we would all be better off.  But the waffling and differing messages doesn't help.

I agree with you completely. Truly, there is nothing you said here that I disagree with.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 09, 2020, 07:52:13 AM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on April 09, 2020, 07:15:28 AM

American Exceptionalism is dead. We now compare ourselves to other countries when convenient, and when we don't measure up we give excuses.

Many of the same folks who want to give the current occupant of the White House a free pass despite his administration's mediocre response are the same ones who harshly criticize a basketball coach who has gone to the NCAA tourney in 3 of the last 4 years for being mediocre.

I guess mediocrity is OK only when you're the leader of the free world.

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 08, 2020, 07:29:54 PM

Two words: Massive Testing

Yep.

From yesterday's press briefing/campaign rally:

Vice President Mike Pence said the short-term objective is to test as many Americans as possible.

The Vice Hypocrite and his boss should have had that as a short-term, medium-term and long-term objective two months ago. More and more information has come out that they were warned repeatedly and were fully aware of the potentially devastating effect of this virus, yet they chose to downplay it, lie about it and count on a "miracle."

Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 09, 2020, 07:27:16 AM

I think it's absolutely terrifying that people here actually believe this administration (which includes people other than Trump, btw) has completely botched the response to this global pandemic at every step of the way.  I read things here and elsewhere that are are overly critical and untrue.  That's the problem with bias in either direction.  If someone is biased and attacks and/or defends everything then credibility is lost.  I agree Trump has little credibility because he lies and says stupid stuff.  Unfortunately, I also think many who criticize Trump have little credibility because they lie and say stupid stuff. As always, the truth lies in the middle.

I appreciate the tone, SAW, and I agree with much of what you say. But this is sort of an example of false equivalence, something Trump defenders use all the time (not saying you do). You or I or some talking head on MSNBC screaming, "Trump has done nothing," is simply not the same as the president of the United States failing to be prepared, blaming everybody but himself and lying to Americans about cases going "close to zero within days." It reminds me of Trump and his sycophants claiming that counterprotesters at the Charlottesville rally were the equivalent of torch-carrying neo-Nazis screaming, "Jews will not replace us!"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 09, 2020, 08:00:22 AM

I am a bleeding heart but I am also pragmatic.   I admire and appreciate the work done by Dewine and Hogan, for example.   They put the safety of their constituents first.   I could vote for them even though I disagree with most of their politics simply because they stepped up and led.
   Here in Michigan, I compare and contrast Snyder's response  to the Flint water crisis and Gretchen's reponse to Covid.   Which one hid, which one led?
   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 09, 2020, 08:24:14 AM

NM -- Intended as a PM.  Sorry.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 09, 2020, 08:25:11 AM

Someone said there would be lawsuits?
It's already started here locally.  Crazy stuff.

---

Club owners sue Lamont, Elicker over coronavirus restrictions
By Ben Lambert

https://digital.olivesoftware.com/Olive/ODN/NewHavenRegister/Default.aspx

NEW HAVEN — The owners of 50’s Lounge in Westville have sued Mayor Justin Elicker and Gov. Ned Lamont, alleging, among other claims, that restrictions implemented during the coronavirus pandemic violate their constitutional rights.

Attorney Kevin Smith of Pattis & Smith LLC, representing owners Michael Amato and Joy Monsanto, filed the suit in U.S. District Court Friday.

It raises two sets of allegations: that Elicker defamed the business by claiming it was still holding parties after it had closed, and that Elicker and Lamont violated a series of Amato’s and Monsanto’s constitutional rights by limiting the size of gatherings..............................................................................................
(Continued)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 09, 2020, 08:30:02 AM

Testing of a new drug going on here in Charlotte:

Novant Health will be the first healthcare system in the southeastern United States to initiate Phase 2 clinical trials for patients with mild to moderate COVID-19 symptoms, according to biotechnology company CytoDyn.

The placebo-controlled trial of 75 patients at up to 10 Novant Health centers will evaluate the safety of using Leronlimab, an experimental drug also used to treat HIV, in patients with mild to moderate documented COVID-19 illness, according to CytoDyn. COVID-19 is the disease caused by the novel coronavirus.

Novant Health spokeswoman Megan Rivers said the trials will be held at Novant Health Presbyterian, Forsyth and Rowan medical centers. Novant is based in Winston-Salem and is one of the two major hospital systems in Charlotte.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on April 09, 2020, 08:30:08 AM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 09, 2020, 07:27:16 AM

I don't.  I really don't.  At all.  But I think it's absolutely terrifying that people here actually believe this administration (which includes people other than Trump, btw) has completely botched the response to this global pandemic at every step of the way.  I read things here and elsewhere that are are overly critical and untrue.  That's the problem with bias in either direction.  If someone is biased and attacks and/or defends everything then credibility is lost.  I agree Trump has little credibility because he lies and says stupid stuff.  Unfortunately, I also think many who criticize Trump have little credibility because they lie and say stupid stuff. As always, the truth lies in the middle.

I've tried to resist being drawn into the political.  I will now resume trying.

That’s why I said this administration. Because Trump shouldn’t be the person making these decisions (though that’s part of his problem, he either thinks he’s an expert on things he’s not or lets someone not qualified to be an expert take control because it’ll help him personally in some way or another), he should simply be the messenger. But ultimately he needs to be the leader of this country. And while at times during his term he’s done a good job of that, he has failed the people of the United States horribly in his biggest test in the White House.

Had the administration’s response been even competent I would’ve seriously considered giving my vote to Trump, as I don’t think Joe Biden is a great answer to lead this country either. This response Trumps (pun) everything in regards to who gets my vote. And with this response, I’m certain Joe Biden is better equipped than Trump ever has been or will be. And the same could’ve been said if it was Hillary or Bernie representing the Democratic Party. Neither of them are great options, but it couldn’t be more clear to me that Donald failed the American people.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 09, 2020, 08:39:32 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 09, 2020, 07:37:15 AM

I agree with you to some extent.  Some of the criticisms of Trump are really minor and not productive.  And yes the administration has done good things too.  No doubt.

The biggest problems were the delay in recognizing the problem (and while China does deserve SOME blame for that, you are warping time if you think the administration does not), and the continued mixed messaging about what needs to be done.

As I said earlier, if he would have simply said back in late March "we are shutting everything down until the end of April and I'm calling on Congress to pass a relief bill," then hounded governors who didn't comply, and stuck to his guns with the messaging, we would all be better off.  But the waffling and differing messages doesn't help.

Fluff

 I think it’s fair to say your political leanings are decidedly non Republican. But throughout this thread you’ve been pretty much right down the middle fair in your analysis. Thank you.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 09, 2020, 08:45:44 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 09, 2020, 08:39:32 AM

Fluff

 I think it’s fair to say your political leanings are decidedly non Republican. But throughout this thread you’ve been pretty much right down the middle fair in your analysis. Thank you.

Thank you Lenny. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 09, 2020, 08:53:37 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on April 02, 2020, 09:21:23 AM

"Sleepy Joe" warned about COVID-19 back in January.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/01/27/coronavirus-donald-trump-made-us-less-prepared-joe-biden-column/4581710002/

WHO and separately Dr. Fauci in January said this is not something Americans need to worry about.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 09, 2020, 08:55:00 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 09, 2020, 08:53:37 AM

WHO and separately Dr. Fauci in January said this is not something Americans need to worry about.

So, you are saying Sleepy Joe nailed it and should be commended, as he was ahead of Fauci and the WHO.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 09, 2020, 08:57:33 AM

Quote from: forgetful on April 02, 2020, 11:23:19 AM

We are also way way under on reporting cases and deaths. We have had terrible testing capacities.

So all nations are in a similar boat in terms of under-reporting. The bottom line, since the beginning the mortality rates from cases has been high 3-5%, it was experts down playing these numbers to 1%. The Ro from China, were higher or equal to what we are currently observing.

We are counting every COVID related death as a COVID death.  That is not how other countries are reporting.  We have taken a liberal approach.

https://theunionjournal.com/birx-says-government-is-classifying-all-deaths-of-patients-with-coronavirus-as-covid-19-deaths-regardless-of-cause/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 09, 2020, 09:00:49 AM

Quote from: tower912 on April 09, 2020, 08:55:00 AM

So, you are saying Sleepy Joe nailed it and should be commended, as he was ahead of Fauci and the WHO.

Yes, he should be commended and some of the most important medical experts were giving the wrong outlook.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 09, 2020, 09:11:55 AM

Germany beginning antibody testing next week. We really need to get going with this as well.
A vaccine would be great and all, but that's a log way off. A therapeutic treatment and this kind of testing is what it's going to take to return to some semblance of normal.

https://apnews.com/9c685e0cc728698f04a31bf0caecf5ff

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 09, 2020, 09:17:20 AM

German scientific study says mortality rate from COVID is .37%.  This is far lower than the modeling estimates and WHO claims of 3.5%.

Using antibodies for their research it suggests many people have the virus.

Studies like these will push leaders to open up the economies early in my opinion.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/04/08/coronavirus-latest-news-2/#link-2H64MNBNRVCWJPBJQTVLVHCZ4E

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on April 09, 2020, 09:18:25 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 09, 2020, 08:57:33 AM

We are counting every COVID related death as a COVID death.  That is not how other countries are reporting.  We have taken a liberal approach.

https://theunionjournal.com/birx-says-government-is-classifying-all-deaths-of-patients-with-coronavirus-as-covid-19-deaths-regardless-of-cause/

What is up with the article you linked? Is it translated from another language? It's unreadable 

"Dr Michael Baden, a Fox News factor, stated it’s affordable to consist of the fatality of a person contaminated with the infection, that additionally had various other health and wellness concerns, in the COVID-19 body matter."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 09, 2020, 09:20:11 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 09, 2020, 08:57:33 AM

We are counting every COVID related death as a COVID death.  That is not how other countries are reporting.  We have taken a liberal approach.

https://theunionjournal.com/birx-says-government-is-classifying-all-deaths-of-patients-with-coronavirus-as-covid-19-deaths-regardless-of-cause/

It requires that the dead person is actually tested for COVID. We are not doing that. There are a lot of people dying from "bilateral pneumonia" that are never being tested. Their death then is listed as due to pneumonia. There have been numerous reports from morgues, that they are undercounting.

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 09, 2020, 08:53:37 AM

WHO and separately Dr. Fauci in January said this is not something Americans need to worry about.

I believe I addressed this timeline for you previously in this thread. When people said something in January is important. He said it before the WHO confirmed person to person spread and when there was something like 30 reported cases in all of China. A few days later, he was the one who recommended we shut down travel with China, and it was the universal agreement of all major players at the CDC.

Trump was still golfing on March 7th and 8th as people were dying. On Feb. 25th, he said we only had 15 cases and would soon have zero. While he was golfing, the US still hadn't put in orders for ventilators and PPE.

Big difference.

Also, I apologize to many about having a politically oriented post. I've tried to avoid it, but do get suckered in sometimes when I see blatant misrepresentations of what transpired for political purposes. Particularly, in some of the attacks on people like Dr. Fauci, where things are taken out of context on when they were said.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 09, 2020, 09:31:30 AM

https://spectator.org/the-smearing-of-greg-gutfeld/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 09, 2020, 09:42:24 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 09, 2020, 07:37:15 AM

I agree with you to some extent.  Some of the criticisms of Trump are really minor and not productive.  And yes the administration has done good things too.  No doubt.

The biggest problems were the delay in recognizing the problem (and while China does deserve SOME blame for that, you are warping time if you think the administration does not), and the continued mixed messaging about what needs to be done.

As I said earlier, if he would have simply said back in late March "we are shutting everything down until the end of April and I'm calling on Congress to pass a relief bill," then hounded governors who didn't comply, and stuck to his guns with the messaging, we would all be better off.  But the waffling and differing messages doesn't help.

I also agree with the general sentiment. It is not totally Trump's fault, but he is certainly not blameless. Too many people live in those extremes.

Regarding the underlined...at least some in the administration (Navarro) recognized the problem fairly early. The administration's biggest mistake at that point was ignoring the warning. I also agree that the mixed messaging is a significant part of the issue.

IMHO - Trump is viewing his daily briefings as a campaigning opportunity, so he continues to talk in an overly optimistic tone so that he can say "I did everything I could to save the economy" this fall. However, the mixed messages might actually delay getting the pandemic under control, which could cost him in the end.

I also fault Trump/the administration for continuing to take the position that the development of widespread testing and contact tracing as a state responsibility, when in fact this is exactly what CDC was established to do. FWIW - the full name of CDC is "Centers for Disease Control and Prevention." I suspect he feels that having CDC taking over now would be seen as an acknowledgement that the administration/CDC messed up from the beginning, and he doesn't want his supporters to hear that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on April 09, 2020, 09:47:10 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 09, 2020, 09:17:20 AM

German scientific study says mortality rate from COVID is .37%.  This is far lower than the modeling estimates and WHO claims of 3.5%.

Using antibodies for their research it suggests many people have the virus.

Studies like these will push leaders to open up the economies early in my opinion.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/04/08/coronavirus-latest-news-2/#link-2H64MNBNRVCWJPBJQTVLVHCZ4E

Might be true in Germany, but the US of A has wayyyyy more fat pepole, diabetic people, and people with heart disease than Germany. No way our mortality rate is that low.

3% is certainly high (mild/asymptomatic cases being undercounted), but I'd be very, very surprised if USA's mortality rate is under 1%.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 09, 2020, 09:49:29 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on April 09, 2020, 09:11:55 AM

Germany beginning antibody testing next week. We really need to get going with this as well.
A vaccine would be great and all, but that's a log way off. A therapeutic treatment and this kind of testing is what it's going to take to return to some semblance of normal.

https://apnews.com/9c685e0cc728698f04a31bf0caecf5ff

As I posted earlier, Mayo Clinic rolled out antibody testing this past Monday. It appears my post got lost in some of the partisan bickering (not talking to you specifically - more the general tone at the time of my post). Here again is the link:

http://outbreaknewstoday.com/covid-19-antibody-test-mayo-clinic-to-release-test-monday-65897/

Mayo is also the lead site for a multi center study of convalescent plasma as a treatment. The study is currently enrolling participants.

https://www.uscovidplasma.org

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 09, 2020, 10:03:44 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 09, 2020, 09:17:20 AM

German scientific study says mortality rate from COVID is .37%.  This is far lower than the modeling estimates and WHO claims of 3.5%.

Using antibodies for their research it suggests many people have the virus.

Studies like these will push leaders to open up the economies early in my opinion.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/04/08/coronavirus-latest-news-2/#link-2H64MNBNRVCWJPBJQTVLVHCZ4E

For a variety of reasons - age of those infected, more testing, better and more accessible health care, better adherence to social distancing guidelines, among others - Germany has been an anomaly when it comes to COVID-19 death rates.
It's probably not a good idea to extrapolate the results from that relatively small population around the globe (just like it would be wrong to assume every American city = NYC).

ttps://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/04/world/europe/germany-coronavirus-death-rate.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on April 09, 2020, 10:09:40 AM

Quote from: MU82 on April 09, 2020, 08:30:02 AM

Testing of a new drug going on here in Charlotte:

Novant Health will be the first healthcare system in the southeastern United States to initiate Phase 2 clinical trials for patients with mild to moderate COVID-19 symptoms, according to biotechnology company CytoDyn.

The placebo-controlled trial of 75 patients at up to 10 Novant Health centers will evaluate the safety of using Leronlimab, an experimental drug also used to treat HIV, in patients with mild to moderate documented COVID-19 illness, according to CytoDyn. COVID-19 is the disease caused by the novel coronavirus.

Novant Health spokeswoman Megan Rivers said the trials will be held at Novant Health Presbyterian, Forsyth and Rowan medical centers. Novant is based in Winston-Salem and is one of the two major hospital systems in Charlotte.

Fingers crossed for this one: https://www.cytodyn.com/newsroom/press-releases/detail/413/blood-samples-at-day-0-3-and-7-for-severely-ill-covid-19

From the press release: “The Day-7 results from these patients demonstrates even more dramatic immune restoration especially in the CD8 T-lymphocyte population, the major immune cell responsible for eliminating virally infected cells. In addition, there is a further dramatic reduction in the critical cytokine storm cytokines IL-6, TNF-alpha. Collectively, these results are correlating with patients’ recovery. Some patients have been removed from ventilators, including one patient who was taken off of a heart/lung bypass machine. Critically ill patients are experiencing the benefit of extubating within 7 days of treatment with leronlimab.”

Targets cytokine storm, could work to shorten people's stay on ventilators and, if treating mild to moderate means dosing people before their on vents, keep them from ever needing one in the first place. Positive results in such a small sample size sure as heck aren't proof, but it's showing enough promise that the phase 2/3 trials are getting off the ground in a hurry.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 09, 2020, 10:23:24 AM

See, this is a very good Trump tweet.  I mean the @OAN thing is a little nuts, but this tone is what we should have seen from the beginning and more of what we should see moving forward.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1248266439582244866?s=20

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Elonsmusk on April 09, 2020, 10:47:19 AM

This stem treatment also advancing through the trial phase, and the safety profile has already been evaluated in 1,100 patients in various clinical trials.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/mesoblast-partners-cardiothoracic-surgical-trials-231510873.html

I'll refrain from devolving into additional arguments over how Covid has been handled.  I'm proud of the response and effort all of our leaders and healthcare workers have put into COVID.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 09, 2020, 10:51:14 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 09, 2020, 10:23:24 AM

See, this is a very good Trump tweet.  I mean the @OAN thing is a little nuts, but this tone is what we should have seen from the beginning and more of what we should see moving forward.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1248266439582244866?s=20

Agree. Exactly the right message. I hope this tone continues.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 09, 2020, 11:04:00 AM

It was expected, but in the past 3 weeks, 10% of the entire labor force has applied for unemployment. Another near record this week. The numbers have been mind-boggling.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 09, 2020, 11:10:12 AM

For the outliers that still don't think this is a big deal. Here is a frightening infographic on nationwide deaths as a result of Covid-19. And remember, this is with shelter-in-place orders.

https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/1812248/

For those that don't want to click. It shows how over the last 1.5 months, COVID-19 has progressed to be the number 1 leading cause of daily deaths in the entire US.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on April 09, 2020, 11:10:26 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 09, 2020, 10:23:24 AM

See, this is a very good Trump tweet.  I mean the @OAN thing is a little nuts, but this tone is what we should have seen from the beginning and more of what we should see moving forward.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1248266439582244866?s=20

DT is cheering on reduced death count predictions to benefit himself. That is why he is all of a sudden championing social distancing when he said the opposite up until this tweet. (He’ll quite possibly contradict that tweet later today or tomorrow) The message is “accidentally” good in this tweet.

Of course this doesn’t include the wide underreporting of COVID-19 deaths according to many.



https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/social-media-posts-make-baseless-claim-on-covid-19-death-toll/



https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/04/05/us/coronavirus-deaths-undercount.amp.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 09, 2020, 11:58:04 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 09, 2020, 09:17:20 AM

German scientific study says mortality rate from COVID is .37%.  This is far lower than the modeling estimates and WHO claims of 3.5%.

Using antibodies for their research it suggests many people have the virus.

Studies like these will push leaders to open up the economies early in my opinion.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/04/08/coronavirus-latest-news-2/#link-2H64MNBNRVCWJPBJQTVLVHCZ4E

I think this can certainly be the case--however we need to study this and we can make an informed decisions.  Sample testing in a hard hit area with a follow up with anti-body testing after the initial wave is behind is a good first step.  Mass anti-body 'clearance' and quick testing before you enter your place of work is another.

Data driven decision making is a thing.  I would love to see our country embrace this on a large scale.  If we have facts, it certainly will help people lose the fear that has now taken hold and get us to return to normal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on April 09, 2020, 12:31:53 PM

”IMHO - Trump is viewing his daily briefings as a campaigning opportunity, so he continues to talk in an overly optimistic tone so that he can say "I did everything I could to save the economy" this fall. However, the mixed messages might actually delay getting the pandemic under control, which could cost him in the end.“


Goooo, you are letting your political emotions get in the way of reality. So if we don’t hear anything from him, I can just hear the comments...too predictable. He says too much, he’s not listening to his “experts” he’s too optimistic, he’s unpresidential, he’s...

Enough!  You guys have turned this into a one sided political thread because if it turns into a political argument, the ones challenging “ you guys”  become the bad guys responsible for a lock down threat. You are cherry picking stuff to satiate your politics. In the words of a previous potus  “ I won, deal with it”.

He is who we elected back in 2016 and will be the one we have to deal with until the next election.

He is dealing with this the way he sees fit. Deal with it.  it’s hard enough to read some of this stuff without rebuttal


We are moving forward and showing good signs of improvement

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on April 09, 2020, 12:34:30 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 09, 2020, 12:31:53 PM

”IMHO - Trump is viewing his daily briefings as a campaigning opportunity, so he continues to talk in an overly optimistic tone so that he can say "I did everything I could to save the economy" this fall. However, the mixed messages might actually delay getting the pandemic under control, which could cost him in the end.“


Goooo, you are letting your political emotions get in the way of reality. So if we don’t hear anything from him, I can just hear the comments...too predictable. He says too much, he’s not listening to his “experts” he’s too optimistic, he’s unpresidential, he’s...

Enough!  You guys have turned this into a one sided political thread because if it turns into a political argument, the ones challenging “ you guys”  become the bad guys responsible for a lock down threat. You are cherry picking stuff to satiate your politics. In the words of a previous potus  “ I won, deal with it”.

He is who we elected back in 2016 and will be the one we have to deal with until the next election.

He is dealing with this the way he sees fit. Deal with it.  it’s hard enough to read some of this stuff without rebuttal


We are moving forward and showing good signs of improvement

I disagree with the premise that the President is beyond critique, because he is who we elected in 2016.

I will say I think he is doing a better job responding to this crisis in the last 2 weeks or so, and that is entirely because of the tireless efforts of Anthony Fauci.

In the long run, I think Trump will be judged terribly because of his initial denial and lack of response to the crisis, which wasted valuable weeks and months.

But, I do not think it is particularly helpful to dwell on that in the present moment, especially with an ego so fragile. We need him to continue to take the steps Fauci recommends. There will be plenty of time for judgment in the future.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on April 09, 2020, 12:37:35 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on April 09, 2020, 11:10:26 AM

DT is cheering on reduced death count predictions to benefit himself. That is why he is all of a sudden championing social distancing when he said the opposite up until this tweet. (He’ll quite possibly contradict that tweet later today or tomorrow) The message is “accidentally” good in this tweet.

Of course this doesn’t include the wide underreporting of COVID-19 deaths according to many.


“To benefit himself”?.  You seriously need some help!  Can you just leave the building please!



https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/social-media-posts-make-baseless-claim-on-covid-19-death-toll/



https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/04/05/us/coronavirus-deaths-undercount.amp.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on April 09, 2020, 12:51:22 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 09, 2020, 12:37:35 PM

https://apnews.com/58f1b869354970689d55ccae37c540f3

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 09, 2020, 12:52:05 PM

Balderdash.  If a president isn't doing his job, he gets criticized.   It is one of the great American pastimes.   I remember criticisms of every other president in my lifetime.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 09, 2020, 12:53:58 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 09, 2020, 12:31:53 PM

”IMHO - Trump is viewing his daily briefings as a campaigning opportunity, so he continues to talk in an overly optimistic tone so that he can say "I did everything I could to save the economy" this fall. However, the mixed messages might actually delay getting the pandemic under control, which could cost him in the end.“


Goooo, you are letting your political emotions get in the way of reality. So if we don’t hear anything from him, I can just hear the comments...too predictable. He says too much, he’s not listening to his “experts” he’s too optimistic, he’s unpresidential, he’s...

The WSJ Editorial Board, notably very, very conservative, adds its thoughts:

The Wall Street Journal Board Has Had Enough Of Donald Trump's Coronavirus Briefings

The editorial board of  The Wall Street Journal on Wednesday published a column attacking President Donald Trump’s daily White House coronavirus task force briefings.

In the editorial titled “Trump’s Wasted Briefings,” the conservative newspaper’s board said the pressers had started off as “a good idea to educate the public” about the pandemic but had now descended into “a boring show of President Vs. the press” after Trump decided to make them all about himself.

Trump’s frequent “outbursts against his political critics” were “notably off-key at this moment” given the “once-a-century threat to American life and livelihood,” it added, noting how public health officials have in the briefings been relegated to the role of “supporting actors.”

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/wall-street-journal-donald-trump-coronavirus-briefings-135801841.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 09, 2020, 01:08:22 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 09, 2020, 12:53:58 PM

The WSJ Editorial Board, notably very, very conservative, adds its thoughts:

The Wall Street Journal Board Has Had Enough Of Donald Trump's Coronavirus Briefings

The editorial board of  The Wall Street Journal on Wednesday published a column attacking President Donald Trump’s daily White House coronavirus task force briefings.

In the editorial titled “Trump’s Wasted Briefings,” the conservative newspaper’s board said the pressers had started off as “a good idea to educate the public” about the pandemic but had now descended into “a boring show of President Vs. the press” after Trump decided to make them all about himself.

Trump’s frequent “outbursts against his political critics” were “notably off-key at this moment” given the “once-a-century threat to American life and livelihood,” it added, noting how public health officials have in the briefings been relegated to the role of “supporting actors.”

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/wall-street-journal-donald-trump-coronavirus-briefings-135801841.html

Damn liberal media!

President Pandemic largely uses these to go after "the enemy of the people" media, to tout his TV ratings, to brag about his Facebook status, and of course to rally his base. As always, it's all about me-me-me.

Many governors hold similar daily briefings. They somehow manage to get through them without bragging about themselves constantly. And their underlings don't have to start every comment with a statement about how wonderful their boss is.

As tower said, every president ever gets criticized. I mean, my memory is a little foggy but I seem to recall one clown spending 8 years trying (and failing) to prove that Obama wasn't a U.S. citizen; I can't quite remember who that inept, racist liar was though.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 09, 2020, 01:09:48 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 09, 2020, 12:31:53 PM

”IMHO - Trump is viewing his daily briefings as a campaigning opportunity, so he continues to talk in an overly optimistic tone so that he can say "I did everything I could to save the economy" this fall. However, the mixed messages might actually delay getting the pandemic under control, which could cost him in the end.“

Goooo, you are letting your political emotions get in the way of reality.

With all due respect, rocket: Your sense of irony is staggering and terrifying.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: lawdog77 on April 09, 2020, 01:24:17 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 09, 2020, 11:04:00 AM

It was expected, but in the past 3 weeks, 10% of the entire labor force has applied for unemployment. Another near record this week. The numbers have been mind-boggling.

Part of this spike is that in order to qualify for Pandemic assistance, you must file for unemployment. Here is the info:

Q17: What if I don’t work for a company and am part of the “gig” economy?
A17: Self-employed individuals and gig economy workers—such as contractors and delivery drivers,
whose income has been cut or eliminated by the pandemic—will be eligible under the federal Pandemic
Unemployment Assistance program. The Department of Workforce Development will work to roll out
this new program as soon as possible. For now, an individual can file a regular claim for benefits, as it is
necessary to file a state claim, even if you know you will be denied, before you can be considered
eligible for Pandemic Unemployment Assistance. In

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on April 09, 2020, 01:43:30 PM

Quote from: lawdog77 on April 09, 2020, 01:24:17 PM

Part of this spike is that in order to qualify for Pandemic assistance, you must file for unemployment. Here is the info:

Q17: What if I don’t work for a company and am part of the “gig” economy?
A17: Self-employed individuals and gig economy workers—such as contractors and delivery drivers,
whose income has been cut or eliminated by the pandemic—will be eligible under the federal Pandemic
Unemployment Assistance program. The Department of Workforce Development will work to roll out
this new program as soon as possible. For now, an individual can file a regular claim for benefits, as it is
necessary to file a state claim, even if you know you will be denied, before you can be considered
eligible for Pandemic Unemployment Assistance. In

Makes sense.  I think economists, Wall Street, etc.. will need to focus on those who qualified for unemployment as a better tool during the pandemic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on April 09, 2020, 06:30:38 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 09, 2020, 01:08:22 PM

Damn liberal media!

President Pandemic largely uses these to go after "the enemy of the people" media, to tout his TV ratings, to brag about his Facebook status, and of course to rally his base. As always, it's all about me-me-me.

Many governors hold similar daily briefings. They somehow manage to get through them without bragging about themselves constantly. And their underlings don't have to start every comment with a statement about how wonderful their boss is.

As tower said, every president ever gets criticized. I mean, my memory is a little foggy but I seem to recall one clown spending 8 years trying (and failing) to prove that Obama wasn't a U.S. citizen; I can't quite remember who that inept, racist liar was though.

Have a Happy Easter Mike!  ;D

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-news-poll-trump-job-approval-hits-new-high-as-voters-rally-during-crisis

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 09, 2020, 06:34:50 PM

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1247719681483509761?s=19

Yikes

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 09, 2020, 06:36:07 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 09, 2020, 06:34:50 PM

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1247719681483509761?s=19

Yikes

#LastDays

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 09, 2020, 06:39:25 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 09, 2020, 06:34:50 PM

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1247719681483509761?s=19

Yikes

sorry from south china not going to trust anything they say.  I will trust the docs close to home

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 09, 2020, 06:51:33 PM

Quote from: tower912 on April 09, 2020, 08:00:22 AM

I am a bleeding heart but I am also pragmatic.   I admire and appreciate the work done by Dewine and Hogan, for example.   They put the safety of their constituents first.   I could vote for them even though I disagree with most of their politics simply because they stepped up and led.
   Here in Michigan, I compare and contrast Snyder's response  to the Flint water crisis and Gretchen's reponse to Covid.   Which one hid, which one led?
 

This.. Yesterday, I gave a list of people to trust and included governors from both parties. They are the ones who are honest. They are the ones doing the heavy lifting.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 09, 2020, 06:57:23 PM

Quote from: muguru on April 09, 2020, 06:30:38 PM

Have a Happy Easter Mike!  ;D

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-news-poll-trump-job-approval-hits-new-high-as-voters-rally-during-crisis

And happy Miracles, Unicorns and Fairy Godmothers Weekend to you, too, guru!

All of 4 days ago you were giddily touting the following from Real Clear Politics:

Quote from: muguru on April 05, 2020, 12:07:32 PM

I hate to rain on your parade and your agenda...somehow you will spin this, or just deny it, I'm sure..

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/public_approval_of_president_trumps_handling_of_the_coronavirus-7088.html

But now that the exact same polling aggregator shows your emperor's numbers dropping like a rock to where his aggregate approval rating is more than 5 points lower than his disapproval rating, you've moved on.

I mean, I hate to rain on your parade and your agenda...somehow you will spin this, or just deny it, I'm sure..

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html

BTW, that same aggregator -- again the one you were passing off as the shizzle just 4 days ago -- also shows your hero losing to Biden in most head-to-head races.

Now, most intelligent folks here know that polls 7 months before an election pretty much mean squat ... but you keep letting us know every time you can find one in which your hero almost kinda sorta escapes being one of the most unpopular presidents in the history of approval ratings, OK?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 09, 2020, 07:01:28 PM

Good NYT Opinion Piece. "The U.S. Approach to Public Health: Neglect, Panic, Repeat"

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/09/opinion/coronavirus-public-health-system-us.html

Makes a good argument that the success of public health measures a century ago led us to complacency and financial neglect of the public health system.

“It was like a great forgetting took place,” Wendy Parmet, a public health law scholar at Northeastern University, told me. “As the memory of epidemics faded, individual rights became much more important than collective responsibility.” And as medicine grew more sophisticated, health began to be seen as purely a personal matter.

Health care spending grew by 52 percent in the past decade, while the budgets of local health departments shrank by as much as 24 percent, according to a 2019 report from the public health nonprofit Trust for America’s Health, and the C.D.C.’s budget remained flat. Today, public health claims just 3 cents of every health dollar spent in the country.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 09, 2020, 07:10:44 PM

Boris out of the ICU.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/article241894246.html?

Here's hoping he has a complete recovery.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 09, 2020, 07:18:39 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 09, 2020, 07:10:44 PM

Here's hoping he has a complete recovery.

What’s that supposed to mean?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 09, 2020, 07:21:02 PM

Quote from: muguru on April 09, 2020, 06:30:38 PM

Have a Happy Easter Mike!  ;D

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-news-poll-trump-job-approval-hits-new-high-as-voters-rally-during-crisis

Quote from: muguru on April 04, 2020, 11:15:00 PM

It amazes me how truly uninformed people are about things..talk to people and they say "well that's what i heard on the news" so they believe it. It's a shame that this country is made up of that many ignorant, uninformed people, but..here we are.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 09, 2020, 07:21:27 PM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 09, 2020, 07:18:39 PM

What’s that supposed to mean?

;D

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 09, 2020, 07:28:52 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 09, 2020, 07:01:28 PM

Good NYT Opinion Piece. "The U.S. Approach to Public Health: Neglect, Panic, Repeat"

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/09/opinion/coronavirus-public-health-system-us.html

Makes a good argument that the success of public health measures a century ago led us to complacency and financial neglect of the public health system.

“It was like a great forgetting took place,” Wendy Parmet, a public health law scholar at Northeastern University, told me. “As the memory of epidemics faded, individual rights became much more important than collective responsibility.” And as medicine grew more sophisticated, health began to be seen as purely a personal matter.

Health care spending grew by 52 percent in the past decade, while the budgets of local health departments shrank by as much as 24 percent, according to a 2019 report from the public health nonprofit Trust for America’s Health, and the C.D.C.’s budget remained flat. Today, public health claims just 3 cents of every health dollar spent in the country.

The sad thing is that we know what will happen in just a few short months. Peoplw will start calling to cut Medicare, MedicAid and Social Security.  As night follows day.....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 09, 2020, 07:34:32 PM

Ugh.  Wave two now in some of the Asian countries. 

 https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/09/world/asia/coronavirus-hong-kong-singapore-taiwan.html?smtyp=cur&smid=fb-nytimes&fbclid=IwAR33R2cMvjhu7q4KuzkoQ5WhPqRyUbWXptMO3hkuwab4vAo_8LhdCKprhJY (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/09/world/asia/coronavirus-hong-kong-singapore-taiwan.html?smtyp=cur&smid=fb-nytimes&fbclid=IwAR33R2cMvjhu7q4KuzkoQ5WhPqRyUbWXptMO3hkuwab4vAo_8LhdCKprhJY)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 09, 2020, 07:37:34 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 09, 2020, 07:34:32 PM

Ugh.  Wave two now in some of the Asian countries. 

 https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/09/world/asia/coronavirus-hong-kong-singapore-taiwan.html?smtyp=cur&smid=fb-nytimes&fbclid=IwAR33R2cMvjhu7q4KuzkoQ5WhPqRyUbWXptMO3hkuwab4vAo_8LhdCKprhJY (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/09/world/asia/coronavirus-hong-kong-singapore-taiwan.html?smtyp=cur&smid=fb-nytimes&fbclid=IwAR33R2cMvjhu7q4KuzkoQ5WhPqRyUbWXptMO3hkuwab4vAo_8LhdCKprhJY)

It’s been explained many times in this thread that this won’t happen.

#LastDays

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 09, 2020, 07:41:37 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 09, 2020, 07:37:34 PM

It’s been explained many times in this thread that this won’t happen.

#LastDays

Did you read the article?  This isn’t about reinfection if that is what you are referring to. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 09, 2020, 08:39:15 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 09, 2020, 07:37:34 PM

It’s been explained many times in this thread that this won’t happen.

#LastDays

Really, who said that this won't happen.  Interested.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 09, 2020, 08:39:47 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 09, 2020, 08:39:15 PM

Really, who said that this won't happen.  Interested.

#ProneBoi

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 09, 2020, 08:41:23 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 09, 2020, 08:39:47 PM

#ProneBoi

Aren't you in your 40s?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 09, 2020, 08:52:50 PM

This thread has revealed a whole new yet equally unappealing side of BeeJay.

#scaredbunny #can'tread

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 09, 2020, 09:01:42 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 09, 2020, 08:41:23 PM

Aren't you in your 40s?

#Ageist

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: BM1090 on April 09, 2020, 09:05:30 PM

So we're basically screwed until we get a vaccine next year, right?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 09, 2020, 09:12:04 PM

Quote from: BM1090 on April 09, 2020, 09:05:30 PM

So we're basically screwed until we get a vaccine next year, right?

Yes - that has been repeated here many times.

The only real question is how screwed we are, and that will depend on how well people comply with stay at home orders, and how quickly we can develop extensive and quick testing and contact tracing. And effective treatments are a wildcard.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 09, 2020, 09:13:15 PM

Less than 1 week ago Dr Fauci and Dr Birx estimated (if we did everything PERFECTLY) that between 100,000 and 240,000 would die in this outbreak. So 170,000 if you take the average. Now estimates are 60,000 and seemingly still dropping. Wonderful news, to be sure, But why do Scoopers think the models were so wrong?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 09, 2020, 09:14:13 PM

Quote from: BM1090 on April 09, 2020, 09:05:30 PM

So we're basically screwed until we get a vaccine next year, right?

Not if any of the many treatments being tested prove effective.

https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-covid-19-treatments.html
"As of April 6, more than 200 clinical trials of COVID-19 treatments or vaccines that are either ongoing or recruiting patients. New ones are being added every day, as the case count in the U.S. (and globally) skyrockets. The drugs being tested range from repurposed flu treatments to failed ebola drugs, to malaria treatments that were first developed decades ago. Here, we take a look at several of the treatments that doctors hope will help fight COVID-19."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 09, 2020, 09:22:22 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 09, 2020, 09:13:15 PM

Less than 1 week ago Dr Fauci and Dr Birx estimated (if we did everything PERFECTLY) that between 100,000 and 240,000 would die in this outbreak. So 170,000 if you take the average. Now estimates are 60,000 and seemingly still dropping. Wonderful news, to be sure, But why do Scoopers think the models were so wrong?

 https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=60306.msg1228484#msg1228484 (https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=60306.msg1228484#msg1228484)

Here is my take.  Idk why they decided to throw numbers around two weeks ago as a task force, but they did.  It seemed odd then as it does now. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 09, 2020, 09:27:34 PM

Hey guys. We have a virus that initially was spreading from infected people coming in from other countries... now, it's more within the US community...

Great news! We've locked everyone into their own homes so they don't interact with others.. and WOOOAH, AMAZING!... less people are getting infected.

We don't have adequate testing, we don't know much of anything. Just a bunch of question marks except that if you sit in a little bubble you don't get it. Well, no sh1t.

We need enormous, unexpected scientific breakthroughs or we're done as Earth.

#LastDays

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: BM1090 on April 09, 2020, 09:28:38 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 09, 2020, 09:12:04 PM

Yes - that has been repeated here many times.

The only real question is how screwed we are, and that will depend on how well people comply with stay at home orders, and how quickly we can develop extensive and quick testing and contact tracing. And effective treatments are a wildcard.

Definitely. I understand the plan of a few phases of physical distancing to limit the strain we put on the healthcare system. As is, I just don't see a realistic path for sports, entertainment, bars and restaurants to re-open until a vaccine is established.

Like you said, things could change with effective treatments and more testing. The lack of clear plan nationally is making me more pessimistic than usual. Isolation is starting to get to me!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on April 09, 2020, 09:29:08 PM

The hydroxy controversy is just the modern day example of the criticism that has been going on for the past 3 1/2years. It’s time people who cannot separate their politics from medicine get out of the way.  allow the doctors who know how to treat people with this drug, (for the time being)do what they have to do to save lives. 

    even a vaccine on the fast track would take a couple of years and God knows what side effects it would still carry with it. Hydroxy has a 60 year track record. People who have been on it for malaria prevention or arthritis have not come down with covid despite knowing being exposed



https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/491932-hydroxy-hysteria-when-saving-lives-collides-with-politics-and-bureaucracy

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 09, 2020, 09:32:41 PM

Quote from: BM1090 on April 09, 2020, 09:28:38 PM

Definitely. I understand the plan of a few phases of physical distancing to limit the strain we put on the healthcare system. As is, I just don't see a realistic path for sports, entertainment, bars and restaurants to re-open until a vaccine is established.

Like you said, things could change with effective treatments and more testing. The lack of clear plan nationally is making me more pessimistic than usual. Isolation is starting to get to me!

Your thoughts are reasonable. There is nothing promising we've seen yet. Of course we can TEMPORARILY flatten the curve if everyone sits at home.

But then what?

There are potential answers, but are they achievable in any reasonable amount of time? Don't know. And no one does.

Most likely, earth is done.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 09, 2020, 09:41:04 PM

Quote from: BM1090 on April 09, 2020, 09:28:38 PM

Definitely. I understand the plan of a few phases of physical distancing to limit the strain we put on the healthcare system. As is, I just don't see a realistic path for sports, entertainment, bars and restaurants to re-open until a vaccine is established.

Like you said, things could change with effective treatments and more testing. The lack of clear plan nationally is making me more pessimistic than usual. Isolation is starting to get to me!

I hear you, BM1090. I hear you.

FWIW, I think spectator sports will be done with closely tested and monitored athletes, and without live audiences until we get a vaccine. Restaurants, bars, stores and such? I heard Fauci on a radio show yesterday talking about taking a restaurant that usually seats 100, but opening it to 20 customers at a time. Same with stores and the like. Decreasing the risk of transmission, but not eliminating it.

Guess we’ll see....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on April 09, 2020, 09:41:30 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 09, 2020, 09:32:41 PM

Your thoughts are reasonable. There is nothing promising we've seen yet. Of course we can TEMPORARILY flatten the curve if everyone sits at home.

But then what?

There are potential answers, but are they achievable in any reasonable amount of time? Don't know. And no one does.

Most likely, earth is done.

What changed from a few days ago?

https://twitter.com/JBBauer612/status/1246254792911073283?s=20

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on April 09, 2020, 09:44:44 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 09, 2020, 07:28:52 PM

The sad thing is that we know what will happen in just a few short months. Peoplw will start calling to cut Medicare, MedicAid and Social Security.  As night follows day.....

(https://i.imgflip.com/3w323d.jpg)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 09, 2020, 09:48:17 PM

Quote from: reinko on April 09, 2020, 09:41:30 PM

What changed from a few days ago?

https://twitter.com/JBBauer612/status/1246254792911073283?s=20

Absolutely nothing, my stalker friend.

Cute, fairy tale hopes are nice to see sometimes.

They don't produce results.

#LastDays

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on April 09, 2020, 09:49:28 PM

Quote from: reinko on April 09, 2020, 09:41:30 PM

What changed from a few days ago?

https://twitter.com/JBBauer612/status/1246254792911073283?s=20

This thing is a wild card, takes one through a range of emotions. JBs in a bit of a rut, he’ll come out.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: withoutbias on April 09, 2020, 09:52:27 PM

Why is coming up with a vaccine considered a guarantee?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 09, 2020, 09:54:46 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 09, 2020, 09:48:17 PM

Absolutely nothing, my stalker friend.

Cute, fairy tale hopes are nice to see sometimes.

They don't produce results.

#LastDays

It's tough on everybody. Especially low wage workers who have lost their jobs.

Enough of the whining, already.

Man up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 09, 2020, 10:01:47 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 09, 2020, 09:54:46 PM

It's tough on everybody. Especially low wage workers who have lost their jobs.

Enough of the whining, already.

Man up.

Who's whining? I'm just speaking reality, punk.

We're screwed without some incredibly positive developments... which have not yet occurred.

That's facts, bub.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 09, 2020, 10:08:28 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 09, 2020, 09:22:22 PM

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=60306.msg1228484#msg1228484 (https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=60306.msg1228484#msg1228484)

Here is my take.  Idk why they decided to throw numbers around two weeks ago as a task force, but they did.  It seemed odd then as it does now.

My problem is how wildly inaccurate the models Dr Fauci and co. cited are proving to be. Dropping estimates 65% in a week is wonderful - but where were the numbers they predicted last week coming from? Imagine if they went the other way and the mean changed from 170,000 to 500,000 in a weeks time.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 09, 2020, 10:08:39 PM

Antibody testing and herd immunity will get us live sports this year.  things will start to open slowly.  There was a podcast a few days ago with fauci about how we open up slowly.
Maybe restaurants start with 50% capacity, the virus will be around and people will pass it at a slower pace.  This will help build the herd immunity and buy time for antibody testing to be widespread.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 09, 2020, 10:09:31 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 09, 2020, 10:08:28 PM

My problem is how wildly inaccurate the models Dr Fauci and co. cited are proving to be. Dropping estimates 65% in a week is wonderful - but where were the numbers they predicted last week coming from? Imagine if they went the other way and the mean changed from 170,000 to 500,000 in a weeks time.

models are only as good as the numbers you put in

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 09, 2020, 10:10:26 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 09, 2020, 10:08:28 PM

My problem is how wildly inaccurate the models Dr Fauci and co. cited are proving to be. Dropping estimates 65% in a week is wonderful - but where were the numbers they predicted last week coming from? Imagine if they went the other way and the mean changed from 170,000 to 500,000 in a weeks time.

My conspiracy theory is conservative assumptions because the boss loves beating numbers.  But that’s just me.

I also listen to exactly what Fauci says.  In fact sometimes it’s better to read his stuff. I seem to remember his quote was ‘100k wouldn’t surprise me’ initially.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on April 09, 2020, 10:17:12 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 09, 2020, 10:01:47 PM

Who's whining? I'm just speaking reality, punk.

We're screwed without some incredibly positive developments... which have not yet occurred.

That's facts, bub.

Like 115,000 Americans are screwed. Well, and then the majority of cured Americans with permanent respiratory issues are screwed a bit. Eff those boomers anyway, it’s not like their retirement funds aren’t safe.

Then there’s the GenX and Millennials trying to rebuild America out of a massive rut with stringent work space guidelines. Millennials sure did get a crap sandwich of a generation to deal with, aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 09, 2020, 11:49:10 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 09, 2020, 09:29:08 PM

The hydroxy controversy is just the modern day example of the criticism that has been going on for the past 3 1/2years. It’s time people who cannot separate their politics from medicine get out of the way.  allow the doctors who know how to treat people with this drug, (for the time being)do what they have to do to save lives. 

    even a vaccine on the fast track would take a couple of years and God knows what side effects it would still carry with it. Hydroxy has a 60 year track record. People who have been on it for malaria prevention or arthritis have not come down with covid despite knowing being exposed



https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/491932-hydroxy-hysteria-when-saving-lives-collides-with-politics-and-bureaucracy

Maybe it has nothing to do with politics and entirely to do with data. Right now there are more studies showing that it doesn't work, than there are suggesting that it does.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-02/hyped-malaria-drug-not-showing-much-effect-at-one-paris-hospital

Now, we are doing the largest and best trials in the US right now. So let's see what they say. But right now, the science and controlled trials say it doesn't work, and may be harmful because of side effects.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 09, 2020, 11:52:27 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 09, 2020, 10:08:28 PM

My problem is how wildly inaccurate the models Dr Fauci and co. cited are proving to be. Dropping estimates 65% in a week is wonderful - but where were the numbers they predicted last week coming from? Imagine if they went the other way and the mean changed from 170,000 to 500,000 in a weeks time.

There has been some public discussion of the changes in the models. The models themselves are accurate, but as others have noted they are very dependent on the variables you put in.

They have discussed that the original models assumed that less than 50% of people would actually follow the quarantine guidelines. That led to higher mortality. It turned out that parameter estimation was off, and people are really sticking to the guidelines pretty rigorously. The result is they can now use a higher %, and the mortality predictions have dropped considerably.

If people stop following the guidelines, the mortality will shoot back up to the original estimates.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 10, 2020, 12:41:42 AM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 09, 2020, 10:01:47 PM

Who's whining? I'm just speaking reality, punk.

We're screwed without some incredibly positive developments... which have not yet occurred.

That's facts, bub.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: NorthernDancerColt on April 10, 2020, 04:41:35 AM

Quote from: WithoutBias on April 09, 2020, 09:52:27 PM

Why is coming up with a vaccine considered a guarantee?

It never was, isn't, nor will it ever be.

WHO 2019-20 Assessments: China $130Million. USA $229 Million.

Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation: an “unassessed” lol, cool $200 Million.

FOLLOW THE MONEY. Ya think ole Billy feels he has a right to write world health policy?!!

But but “conspiracy”.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 10, 2020, 06:01:18 AM

Austria starting to reopen.  Did a sample though and only 1% of population had the virus—they were hopeful it was higher I think. 

 https://www.wsj.com/articles/austria-will-start-to-reopen-next-week-11586386670?mod=e2fb (https://www.wsj.com/articles/austria-will-start-to-reopen-next-week-11586386670?mod=e2fb)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 10, 2020, 06:07:14 AM

Quote from: NorthernDancerColt on April 10, 2020, 04:41:35 AM

It never was, isn't, nor will it ever be.

WHO 2019-20 Assessments: China $130Million. USA $229 Million.

Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation: an “unassessed” lol, cool $200 Million.

FOLLOW THE MONEY. Ya think ole Billy feels he has a right to write world health policy?!!

But but “conspiracy”.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/Lcn0yF1RcLANG/giphy.gif)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 10, 2020, 07:03:05 AM

Quote from: WithoutBias on April 09, 2020, 09:52:27 PM

Why is coming up with a vaccine considered a guarantee?

I don't think it is. Look at the virus that causes AIDS--still no vaccine for HIV after 40 years. BUT, treatments have progressed to the point where they can lower the amount of virus in the bloodstream to nearly undetectable levels.

We could be on a similar path here. Even if a vaccine proves to be elusive or only partially effective like flu vaccines, some combo of the drugs being tested may have the capacity to make COVID highly treatable.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 10, 2020, 07:16:07 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 09, 2020, 09:29:08 PM

The hydroxy controversy is just the modern day example of the criticism that has been going on for the past 3 1/2years. It’s time people who cannot separate their politics from medicine get out of the way.  allow the doctors who know how to treat people with this drug, (for the time being)do what they have to do to save lives. 

    even a vaccine on the fast track would take a couple of years and God knows what side effects it would still carry with it. Hydroxy has a 60 year track record. People who have been on it for malaria prevention or arthritis have not come down with covid despite knowing being exposed

https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/491932-hydroxy-hysteria-when-saving-lives-collides-with-politics-and-bureaucracy

Trump was told about one very flawed French study using the drug and began touting it as a miracle cure.  Dutifully the entire right wing echo chamber began repeating him, promoting this as THE treatment, despite zero scientific evidence yet.  And so the Fox News watchers/Rush Limbaugh listeners repeat the same thing.  It has since evolved into the latest bit of the cultural war, with anybody who says, "Gee, maybe we should test this first," accused of hating the President.

There are 70-odd drugs (Edit: now 100+ drugs, see post in the "Hydroxychloroquinine updates (and other potential treatments)" thread) being tested in 200+ scientific trials currently underway.  Why don't we take the scientific approach and see which one or ones actually work instead of endlessly promoting a non-doctor's gut feeling?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on April 10, 2020, 07:38:05 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 10, 2020, 07:16:07 AM

Trump was told about one very flawed French study using the drug and began touting it as a miracle cure.  Dutifully the entire right wing echo chamber began repeating him, promoting this as THE treatment, despite zero scientific evidence yet.  And so the Fox News watchers/Rush Limbaugh listeners repeat the same thing.  It has since evolved into the latest bit of the cultural war, with anybody who says, "Gee, maybe we should test this first," accused of hating the President.

There are 70-odd drugs being tested in 200+ scientific trials currently underway.  Why don't we take the scientific approach and see which one or ones actually work instead of endlessly promoting a non-doctor's gut feeling?

Parallels to Ron Burgundy and the teleprompter.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 10, 2020, 08:06:11 AM

This is a really grim article but It shows a universal problem of understanding the breadth of the pandemic when it hits an area hard.  There were similar stories in other western hot spots like Italy. 

 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/10/nyregion/new-york-coronavirus-death-count.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/10/nyregion/new-york-coronavirus-death-count.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 10, 2020, 08:16:52 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 10, 2020, 07:16:07 AM

Trump was told about one very flawed French study using the drug and began touting it as a miracle cure.  Dutifully the entire right wing echo chamber began repeating him, promoting this as THE treatment, despite zero scientific evidence yet.  And so the Fox News watchers/Rush Limbaugh listeners repeat the same thing.  It has since evolved into the latest bit of the cultural war, with anybody who says, "Gee, maybe we should test this first," accused of hating the President.

There are 70-odd drugs (Edit: now 100+ drugs, see post in the "Hydroxychloroquinine updates (and other potential treatments)" thread) being tested in 200+ scientific trials currently underway.  Why don't we take the scientific approach and see which one or ones actually work instead of endlessly promoting a non-doctor's gut feeling?

It really would be great if Hydroxy works like people want it to.

But it doesn't according to objective evidence.  But this is a great example of how Trump is handling this wrong.  He wants this to be over quickly.  He is seeking a simple solution to a complex problem.  He lacks the intellectual rigor and attention to detail to understand that it's not that simple.

On top of that, he won't shut up about it.  So what that has meant is that there are serious shortages for people who rely on that drug - where it is PROVEN to help.  Like with lupus. 

So his touting of that drug is causing harm to other people.  He needs to let the process play out.  He's not a doctor.  He's not a scientist.  He's a poor real estate developer and excellent personal brand manager.  What makes people think he knows how to manage and cure this disease?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on April 10, 2020, 08:46:07 AM

Quote from: injuryBug on April 09, 2020, 10:08:39 PM

Antibody testing and herd immunity will get us live sports this year. 

I was thinking about herd immunity from a math perspective.

We're at 470k cases in the US.  Let's say the real count is 10x that, so we're at 4.7m.    That means a whopping 1.4% of the US's 330m population has been infected. 

The last week or so, we're getting 30k positive cases per day, so let's say that's really undercounted by 10x, so 300k per day.


The lowest herd immunity %age I could find that was helpful is 40%.   

Even at 300k new cases per day, it would take 1100 days (3+ YEARS) to reach even 40% herd immunity.  Even if my numbers are off by a factor of 2, we're a loonnnnng way off.  And 40% is super low anyhow, it might take 80% or 95%.


And that's only if you stay at 300k per day.  The case rate is likely steady/dropping over the next few weeks.


That leaves immunity thru vaccines as the best possibility.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 10, 2020, 08:50:09 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 10, 2020, 08:46:07 AM

I was thinking about herd immunity from a math perspective.

We're at 470k cases in the US.  Let's say the real count is 10x that, so we're at 4.7m.    That means a whopping 1.4% of the US's 330m population has been infected. 

The last week or so, we're getting 30k positive cases per day, so let's say that's really undercounted by 10x, so 300k per day.


The lowest herd immunity %age I could find that was helpful is 40%.   

Even at 300k new cases per day, it would take 1100 days (3+ YEARS) to reach even 40% herd immunity.  Even if my numbers are off by a factor of 2, we're a loonnnnng way off.  And 40% is super low anyhow, it might take 80% or 95%.


And that's only if you stay at 300k per day.  The case rate is likely steady/dropping over the next few weeks.


That leaves immunity thru vaccines as the best possibility.

I agree with this and did some similar math on NY earlier in this thread.  The only hope is that upon antibody testing we find out the unreported factor is much higher.  Unfortunately though with SK (low antibody in some mild cases) and the Austria article posted above it seems like just a hope. 

Therapy-Vaccine-social distancing seem to be the best options at the moment.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Eldon on April 10, 2020, 08:55:42 AM

Quote from: injuryBug on April 09, 2020, 10:09:31 PM

models are only as good as the numbers you put in

"All models are wrong, but some are useful."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 10, 2020, 09:03:25 AM

I think JB is frustrated and is channeling it into trolling.    No one actually believes that this is the end.   There are certainly going to be lessons learned and structural and societal changes on the back end.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 10, 2020, 09:23:48 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 10, 2020, 08:46:07 AM

I was thinking about herd immunity from a math perspective.

We're at 470k cases in the US.  Let's say the real count is 10x that, so we're at 4.7m.    That means a whopping 1.4% of the US's 330m population has been infected. 

The last week or so, we're getting 30k positive cases per day, so let's say that's really undercounted by 10x, so 300k per day.


The lowest herd immunity %age I could find that was helpful is 40%.   

Even at 300k new cases per day, it would take 1100 days (3+ YEARS) to reach even 40% herd immunity.  Even if my numbers are off by a factor of 2, we're a loonnnnng way off.  And 40% is super low anyhow, it might take 80% or 95%.


And that's only if you stay at 300k per day.  The case rate is likely steady/dropping over the next few weeks.


That leaves immunity thru vaccines as the best possibility.

Yuck.  My hope is a cheap, effective, test that people can perform on themselves at home... and that results are conclusive in minutes.  Ideally, delivered my USPS or distributed at any government building (for those without addresses).  Something like this could throw a ton of water on the fire.  If someone tests positive there could be a small "colony" (think TB or leprosy sanatorium) in each county (or whatever makes sense) that cares for those who are ill.  Specialized, isolated, and loaded with all the PPE and equipment that is required.  If positive, you go and stay there until you've recovered and tested negative.

I realize that something like this completely ignores the asymptomatic positive people.  But, it gives us something.  It frees up hospital space so that they can go back to more normal operations.  Daily testing for each person identifies potential hotspots or outbreaks early.  I'm sure there could be tech use, and mathematical algorithms that could be created to trace back potentially infected people... who would then quarantine at home until they've tested negative for a predetermined time period...  unless positive, then they go on "vacation".  These folks would be excused from work, and be immediately placed on unemployment until they are cleared.  Anyone they've come into contact with (using GPS logs on phones) could be notified via text message.  I know this would be a LOT "big brothery" for most people, myself included.  This is what South Korea has done, and it has been effective.

Just throwing out ideas here.  Ways to get closer to normal, but with precautions.  Someone smarter than me can probably come up with much better plans, or poke holes in this brain storm.  But, as I've said since early February, the best way back is massive, cheap, fast testing.

As a society, life changes, obviously. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 10, 2020, 09:32:08 AM

NYT: "Trump Keeps Talking. Some Republicans Don’t Like What They’re Hearing."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/09/us/politics/trump-coronavirus-press-briefing.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

Mr. Trump “sometimes drowns out his own message,” said Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, who has become one of the president’s informal counselors and told him “a once-a-week show” could be more effective. Representative Susan Brooks of Indiana said “they’re going on too long.” Senator Shelley Moore Capito of West Virginia said the briefings were “going off the rails a little bit” and suggested that he should “let the health professionals guide where we’re going to go.”

Even the conservative Wall Street Journal editorial board chastised the president for his behavior at the briefings. “Covid-19 isn’t shifty Schiff,” it wrote in an editorial on Thursday, using Mr. Trump’s nickname for Representative Adam Schiff. “It’s a once-a-century threat to American life and livelihood.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 10, 2020, 09:40:42 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 10, 2020, 09:23:48 AM

Yuck.  My hope is a cheap, effective, test that people can perform on themselves at home... and that results are conclusive in minutes.  Ideally, delivered my USPS or distributed at any government building (for those without addresses).  Something like this could throw a ton of water on the fire.  If someone tests positive there could be a small "colony" (think TB or leprosy sanatorium) in each county (or whatever makes sense) that cares for those who are ill.  Specialized, isolated, and loaded with all the PPE and equipment that is required.  If positive, you go and stay there until you've recovered and tested negative.

I realize that something like this completely ignores the asymptomatic positive people.  But, it gives us something.  It frees up hospital space so that they can go back to more normal operations.  Daily testing for each person identifies potential hotspots or outbreaks early.  I'm sure there could be tech use, and mathematical algorithms that could be created to trace back potentially infected people... who would then quarantine at home until they've tested negative for a predetermined time period...  unless positive, then they go on "vacation".  These folks would be excused from work, and be immediately placed on unemployment until they are cleared.  Anyone they've come into contact with (using GPS logs on phones) could be notified via text message.  I know this would be a LOT "big brothery" for most people, myself included.  This is what South Korea has done, and it has been effective.

Just throwing out ideas here.  Ways to get closer to normal, but with precautions.  Someone smarter than me can probably come up with much better plans, or poke holes in this brain storm.  But, as I've said since early February, the best way back is massive, cheap, fast testing.

As a society, life changes, obviously.

I think a COVID "colony" approach is a sound idea from a disease management approach, but I'm not sure Americans are gonna want to get tested if they know a positive result would get them locked up for several weeks. Especially since we have been telling them for weeks that those with mild symptoms could treat themselves in the comfort of their own home. Many are going to see this as a more restrictive approach, just as people are clamoring for fewer restrictions as they see the curve flattening.

I totally get the rationale and agree with the approach. But converting that to large-scale public buy-in could be difficult.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 10, 2020, 09:42:16 AM

I think that in the next few weeks that a few treatments are going to be identified that will reduce mortality down to 1-2% of cases that require hospitalization.   When that threshold is met, I think that society will collectively say f it and start the long journey back to a semblance of the old normal.    I think a vaccine will be fast tracked and be available this fall with your flu shot.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 10, 2020, 10:00:42 AM

Quote from: tower912 on April 10, 2020, 09:42:16 AM

I think that in the next few weeks that a few treatments are going to be identified that will reduce mortality down to 1-2% of cases that require hospitalization.   When that threshold is met, I think that society will collectively say f it and start the long journey back to a semblance of the old normal.    I think a vaccine will be fast tracked and be available this fall with your flu shot.

I'm on a similar track as you, but not as optimistic. I think it is 2 months out, and that treatment will be convalescent plasma. Which wouldn't be scaleable enough for huge caseloads that would emerge if we went back to something like normal.

I think the something like normal is 4-months out. Where either we have had enough infected that we have pretty good reserves of plasma. Or some of the scaleable versions of plasma are available.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 10, 2020, 10:03:56 AM

Remember when the Alabama Governor was refusing to issue a stay at home order because "we aren't California"? And the ongoing refusal of some sparsely populated central states, on the theory that sparse populations will limit the spread?

At the time, the per capita case rate was slightly lower than in CA. But in recent weeks, with strict measures in CA and the delay in AL, the numbers have turned. As of today, the per capita case rate in AL is 58/100K, while it is 51/100K in CA.

The same is true in the Dakotas. When I first started looking at rates a couple of weeks ago, MN and the Dakotas had similar rates (I believe both were in the range of 15/100K). The MN enacted a stay at home order and the Dakotas didn't. As of today, the case rate is 22/100K in MN, while the Dakotas are at 35 (ND) and 51 (SD).

IMHO, it's only a matter of time before some mid-sized town in one of those states becomes the next hotspot.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 10, 2020, 10:09:31 AM

Quote from: forgetful on April 10, 2020, 10:00:42 AM

I'm on a similar track as you, but not as optimistic. I think it is 2 months out, and that treatment will be convalescent plasma. Which wouldn't be scaleable enough for huge caseloads that would emerge if we went back to something like normal.

I think the something like normal is 4-months out. Where either we have had enough infected that we have pretty good reserves of plasma. Or some of the scaleable versions of plasma are available.

Agree that plasma is the most promising short-term option, and that availability and scalability is the key. As far as the timeline back to normal, I think it depends on the definition of "normal."

I think 4 months might get us to the point of bars, restaurants and stores open, with limitations on the number of customers. But as far as sporting events with 50,000+ people (baseball, football), I think we may still be a few months further out.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 10, 2020, 10:12:42 AM

An interesting side effect of COVID-19. Most have probably seen some of the reports of pollution down around the world. That is one of the few bright spots emerging from this.

Another, technically COVID-19 is leading to less death in South Africa. So far only 19 virus related deaths in South Africa. But because of quarantine, the murder rate has dropped from 326 to 94 for the same week as compared to last year.

Kind of crazy stats.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on April 10, 2020, 10:14:28 AM

Returning to "normal" will happen in stages...It could look something like this....

-People verified to be immune with some sort of badge or passport that allows them to resume daily activities (requires antibody testing).

-People able to return to workplaces sometime in June, with proper precautions (temperature scanning, rapid testing, antibody testing, etc.)

-Sporting events without fans, or with very limited fans, sometime this summer.

-Restaurants in July or August, with new precautions for number of people in a given space, extra cleaning, etc.

The very last thing to resume is going to be major events with large crowds, such as concerts, sporting events with fans, festivals, theater, etc. That might not happen until we have a vaccine, which is 2021.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on April 10, 2020, 10:23:17 AM

Quote from: Coleman on April 10, 2020, 10:14:28 AM

Returning to "normal" will happen in stages...It could look something like this....

-People verified to be immune with some sort of badge or passport that allows them to resume daily activities (requires antibody testing).

-People able to return to workplaces sometime in June, with proper precautions (temperature scanning, rapid testing, antibody testing, etc.)

-Sporting events without fans, or with very limited fans, sometime this summer.

-Restaurants in July or August, with new precautions for number of people in a given space, extra cleaning, etc.

The very last thing to resume is going to be major events with large crowds, such as concerts, sporting events with fans, festivals, theater, etc. That might not happen until we have a vaccine, which is 2021.

I have doubts it'll take that long. I don't think society will allow this to go on that long. I'm guessing there will be lots of issues in Wisconsin alone when Evars increases the stay at home order another month.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 10, 2020, 10:59:03 AM

Quote from: tower912 on April 10, 2020, 09:42:16 AM

I think that in the next few weeks that a few treatments are going to be identified that will reduce mortality down to 1-2% of cases that require hospitalization.   When that threshold is met, I think that society will collectively say f it and start the long journey back to a semblance of the old normal.    I think a vaccine will be fast tracked and be available this fall with your flu shot.

A vaccine will open a whole new can of worms.

When I was a little kid, the polio vaccine was discovered. For several sundays in a row, every family had to go to a pre-designated location where sugar cubes with the vaccine were distributed to every citizen.

Think of the pushback if we tried that today. Conspiracy theories, right wingers threatening to shoot anyone who tried to make them take a vaccine, organized disruptions by anti-vaxxers, etc.

Hopefully there would be enough people taking it to develop herd immunity.

Then the question would arise over jobs and schools and whether they would allow the non-immunized in.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 10, 2020, 11:18:56 AM

Some people complain about anything.  Conspiracy theorists and anti-vaxxers who come up with inane reasons to not get vaccinated will reap what they sow.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on April 10, 2020, 11:26:38 AM

Went to my "real" (non pandemic) job today to see if I can keep things running smoothly.

While I was away the company reached out to have people give out masks. I, along with my team I manage have received masks made of what felt to be hot pads.

That is uhhh, not good for an essential worker in healthcare.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 10, 2020, 11:31:07 AM

My fire department received a gift of face masks like the ones you describe.   We are currently under orders to wear them whenever we leave the station in non emergency situations, like trips to the store.    Saving our dust masks, face shields and N95S for alarms.

Very stylish.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on April 10, 2020, 11:33:31 AM

Quote from: tower912 on April 10, 2020, 11:31:07 AM

My fire department received a gift of face masks like the ones you describe.   We are currently under orders to wear them whenever we leave the station in non emergency situations, like trips to the store.    Saving our dust masks, face shields and N95S for alarms.

Very stylish.

Unfortunately essentially useless for close contact. I wont even go into the sealing portion of it (nonexistent) but even ineffective as a droplet catcher.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 10, 2020, 11:37:26 AM

Quote from: tower912 on April 10, 2020, 11:31:07 AM

My fire department received a gift of face masks like the ones you describe.   We are currently under orders to wear them whenever we leave the station in non emergency situations, like trips to the store.    Saving our dust masks, face shields and N95S for alarms.

Very stylish.

Honest question how is it breathing with those on?  Those seem pretty thick compared to what i am seeing around

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on April 10, 2020, 11:41:43 AM

Here's some text on possible ways to open:

https://www.vox.com/2020/4/10/21215494/coronavirus-plans-social-distancing-economy-recession-depression-unemployment

In conclusion, 22m tests PER DAY, raise hospital capacity, we're in this for at least a year, get a vaccine asap.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 10, 2020, 11:41:54 AM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on April 10, 2020, 11:33:31 AM

Unfortunately essentially useless for close contact. I wont even go into the sealing portion of it (nonexistent) but even ineffective as a droplet catcher.

Oh, I know.  Out chief is big on symbols and thinks it is important that we are seen as taking it seriously.  I roll my eyes as I do it because I view it as nothing but a symbolic face cover.   

As far as breathing through these home made masks, they fog my glasses until I lower the nose to a point that they lose most of their nearly non-existent effectiveness.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on April 10, 2020, 11:51:58 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 10, 2020, 11:41:43 AM

Here's some text on possible ways to open:

https://www.vox.com/2020/4/10/21215494/coronavirus-plans-social-distancing-economy-recession-depression-unemployment

In conclusion, 22m tests PER DAY, raise hospital capacity, we're in this for at least a year, get a vaccine asap.

Assuming antibody tests continue to come back with these impressive results...

Most of these measures won't be necessary. Getting a constant supply of antibodies from a growing number of recovered patients will be a great avenue into opening up the world again until a vaccine can be properly tested.

Also going to assume this will be fast tracked and won't be months of testing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on April 10, 2020, 11:52:56 AM

Quote from: tower912 on April 10, 2020, 11:41:54 AM

Oh, I know.  Out chief is big on symbols and thinks it is important that we are seen as taking it seriously.  I roll my eyes as I do it because I view it as nothing but a symbolic face cover.   

As far as breathing through these home made masks, they fog my glasses until I lower the nose to a point that they lose most of their nearly non-existent effectiveness.

Tower pretty much sums it up. My girlfriend went out with a scarf on the other day to protect herself. I was giggling.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 10, 2020, 11:56:57 AM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on April 10, 2020, 11:52:56 AM

Tower pretty much sums it up. My girlfriend went out with a scarf on the other day to protect herself. I was giggling.

Im only wearing burkas now.

Ok, its a muumuu with a hood, and a ski mask, but I'm trying to be mutli cultural.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 10, 2020, 11:58:39 AM

I am sure you are still surprisingly attractive.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 10, 2020, 12:00:10 PM

Quote from: tower912 on April 10, 2020, 11:58:39 AM

I am sure you are still surprisingly attractive.

Whatever, Homer.   ;D

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 10, 2020, 12:00:58 PM

Maybe I've been misreading it all this time ... but isn't the main purpose of a mask to catch one's own "droplets," and thereby not affect others?

Theoretically, there are millions and millions and millions of carriers who don't know they are carriers.

For this purpose, even home-made "masks" theoretically are better than none, right? Because I can't believe anybody with any medical or science knowledge believes that a bandana or a coffee filter or a t-shirt is going to protect the wearer of that jury-rigged "mask."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 10, 2020, 12:02:16 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 10, 2020, 08:16:52 AM

What makes people think he knows how to manage and cure this disease?

Because MAGA. Duh.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on April 10, 2020, 12:06:26 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 10, 2020, 12:00:58 PM

Maybe I've been misreading it all this time ... but isn't the main purpose of a mask to catch one's own "droplets," and thereby not affect others?

Theoretically, there are millions and millions and millions of carriers who don't know they are carriers.

For this purpose, even home-made "masks" theoretically are better than none, right? Because I can't believe anybody with any medical or science knowledge believes that a bandana or a coffee filter or a t-shirt is going to protect the wearer of that jury-rigged "mask."

These home-made masks don't catch droplets effectively either. Between not tight fits, non existant sealing, and the ability for the virus to go right through the material, the homemade masks are like stopping a laceration with a band aid.

They are being used to quell fear in the public. Not unlike blackout laws in Illinois or metal drives during WW2.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 10, 2020, 12:14:52 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 10, 2020, 09:40:42 AM

I think a COVID "colony" approach is a sound idea from a disease management approach, but I'm not sure Americans are gonna want to get tested if they know a positive result would get them locked up for several weeks. Especially since we have been telling them for weeks that those with mild symptoms could treat themselves in the comfort of their own home. Many are going to see this as a more restrictive approach, just as people are clamoring for fewer restrictions as they see the curve flattening.

I totally get the rationale and agree with the approach. But converting that to large-scale public buy-in could be difficult.

I'm with hards on the solution, but my wife holds the same opinion you do.  She has less faith in humanity. Sadly, she is probably right.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 10, 2020, 12:18:15 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 10, 2020, 12:00:58 PM

Maybe I've been misreading it all this time ... but isn't the main purpose of a mask to catch one's own "droplets," and thereby not affect others?

Theoretically, there are millions and millions and millions of carriers who don't know they are carriers.

For this purpose, even home-made "masks" theoretically are better than none, right? Because I can't believe anybody with any medical or science knowledge believes that a bandana or a coffee filter or a t-shirt is going to protect the wearer of that jury-rigged "mask."

Here is a piece that dives into this — plus the cultural aspects.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/09/world/europe/virus-mask-wearing.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/09/world/europe/virus-mask-wearing.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on April 10, 2020, 12:27:13 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 10, 2020, 12:18:15 PM

Here is a piece that dives into this — plus the cultural aspects.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/09/world/europe/virus-mask-wearing.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/09/world/europe/virus-mask-wearing.html)

I like the picture of the guy wearing a mask...but going to a f-ing ATM without gloves or anything else.  Perfect.

My concern with the general public is more faced with the option of staying home and keeping the economy "closed" for extended periods of time, aka through the summer, lots of people will prefer to take their chances, in some fashion, than face more certain economic hardship.  Cause call me a cynic, but going through the PPP process as a business principle and also seeing the lags/snags/etc... in the stimulus payments, I have a REALLY hard time trusting that the government will do anything near necessary to keep people and businesses financially sound while also asking them to continue putting their lives on hold.  Especially knowing there will be a wave of business closures/failures in late summer with extended shutdowns, regardless of what payroll the government says they will cover in the meantime.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 10, 2020, 12:29:49 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on April 10, 2020, 12:27:13 PM

I like the picture of the guy wearing a mask...but going to a f-ing ATM without gloves or anything else.  Perfect.

My concern with the general public is more faced with the option of staying home and keeping the economy "closed" for extended periods of time, aka through the summer, lots of people will prefer to take their chances, in some fashion, than face more certain economic hardship.  Cause call me a cynic, but going through the PPP process as a business principle and also seeing the lags/snags/etc... in the stimulus payments, I have a REALLY hard time trusting that the government will do anything near necessary to keep people and businesses financially sound while also asking them to continue putting their lives on hold.  Especially knowing there will be a wave of business closures/failures in late summer with extended shutdowns, regardless of what payroll the government says they will cover in the meantime.

I thought that picture was funny too.  However it also made me realize how much has changed as I wouldn’t have even thought about the risk of paying with a credit card a few weeks ago.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on April 10, 2020, 12:30:59 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on April 10, 2020, 12:27:13 PM

I like the picture of the guy wearing a mask...but going to a f-ing ATM without gloves or anything else.  Perfect.

My concern with the general public is more faced with the option of staying home and keeping the economy "closed" for extended periods of time, aka through the summer, lots of people will prefer to take their chances, in some fashion, than face more certain economic hardship.  Cause call me a cynic, but going through the PPP process as a business principle and also seeing the lags/snags/etc... in the stimulus payments, I have a REALLY hard time trusting that the government will do anything near necessary to keep people and businesses financially sound while also asking them to continue putting their lives on hold.  Especially knowing there will be a wave of business closures/failures in late summer with extended shutdowns, regardless of what payroll the government says they will cover in the meantime.

I'm in the same boat here.

With summer coming up, no entertainment being produced, theaters are closed, no sports are on. Are people really going to be staying home? How much of the population says "to hell with this" and go about their lives?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 10, 2020, 12:39:28 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 10, 2020, 08:06:11 AM

This is a really grim article but It shows a universal problem of understanding the breadth of the pandemic when it hits an area hard.  There were similar stories in other western hot spots like Italy. 

 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/10/nyregion/new-york-coronavirus-death-count.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/10/nyregion/new-york-coronavirus-death-count.html)

Bumping this - because it wasn't discussed, and the first paragraph of the article essentially proves COVID-19 death counts are wrong...

Quote

In the first five days of April, 1,125 people were pronounced dead in their homes or on the street in New York City, more than eight times the deaths recorded during the same period in 2019, according to the Fire Department.

I mean - 8x - and these people aren't being counted against COVID-19. So models, experts, idiots, etc.  Nobody knows the extent of this yet (and maybe never will)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 10, 2020, 12:40:24 PM

Quote from: tower912 on April 10, 2020, 11:18:56 AM

Some people complain about anything.  Conspiracy theorists and anti-vaxxers who come up with inane reasons to not get vaccinated will reap what they sow.

There is a legal precedent from the Smallpox vaccine days which will likely be used for a COVID vaccine. Essentially, entities will be able to ban individuals who are not vaccinated, essentially legally compelling them to get the vaccine.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/197/11

edit. updated with the court case reference.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 10, 2020, 12:43:06 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 10, 2020, 12:40:24 PM

There is a legal precedent from the Smallpox vaccine days which will likely be used for a COVID vaccine. Essentially, entities will be able to ban individuals who are not vaccinated, essentially legally compelling them to get the vaccine.

This should be used against a$$hole antivaxers in general not just covid

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 10, 2020, 12:53:31 PM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on April 10, 2020, 12:06:26 PM

These home-made masks don't catch droplets effectively either. Between not tight fits, non existant sealing, and the ability for the virus to go right through the material, the homemade masks are like stopping a laceration with a band aid.

They are being used to quell fear in the public. Not unlike blackout laws in Illinois or metal drives during WW2.

I'm gonna call you out here, because of how dismissive you're acting.  For protecting yourself, these masks are useless, for protecting others, they're at least 50% more effective than no face covering (I have no scientific numbers...it's probably higher than that).

As a (part-time?) healthcare worker you should probably just appreciate any steps the general public is doing to keep everyone else healthy, no?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 10, 2020, 01:01:30 PM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on April 10, 2020, 11:33:31 AM

Unfortunately essentially useless for close contact. I wont even go into the sealing portion of it (nonexistent) but even ineffective as a droplet catcher.

Yean, but you are going to be extremely grateful when that dutch oven full of pot roast unexpectedly lands on your face.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 10, 2020, 01:13:07 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 10, 2020, 12:18:15 PM

Here is a piece that dives into this — plus the cultural aspects.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/09/world/europe/virus-mask-wearing.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/09/world/europe/virus-mask-wearing.html)

Thanks for that link, and thanks everybody else for the discussion.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on April 10, 2020, 01:31:26 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 10, 2020, 12:53:31 PM

I'm gonna call you out here, because of how dismissive you're acting.  For protecting yourself, these masks are useless, for protecting others, they're at least 50% more effective than no face covering (I have no scientific numbers...it's probably higher than that).

As a (part-time?) healthcare worker you should probably just appreciate any steps the general public is doing to keep everyone else healthy, no?

You can think that. I believe these masks will make people less cautious.

My real job is working with special needs clients in the group home settings. Teaching delegation skills to employees as well as managing 2 homes.

When covid hit a bunch of nurses in group home settings like me took leaves from them to work at the hospitals. So I'm currently attempting to do both.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 10, 2020, 01:45:59 PM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on April 10, 2020, 12:30:59 PM

I'm in the same boat here.

With summer coming up, no entertainment being produced, theaters are closed, no sports are on. Are people really going to be staying home? How much of the population says "to hell with this" and go about their lives?

Where exactly would they do this? If theaters, parks, sporting venues, malls and such are still closed, is everyone just gonna hold big block parties?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 10, 2020, 01:47:39 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 10, 2020, 01:45:59 PM

Where exactly would they do this? If theaters, parks, sporting venues, malls and such are still closed, is everyone just gonna hold big block parties?

House party?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on April 10, 2020, 01:56:02 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 10, 2020, 01:45:59 PM

Where exactly would they do this? If theaters, parks, sporting venues, malls and such are still closed, is everyone just gonna hold big block parties?

House parties, grill outs, parks being "closed" wont stop people from going there in 2 months.

Without anything to distract themselves people will start to gather with their regular groups again. I'm sure plenty of people will already be gathering over Easter.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 10, 2020, 01:58:10 PM

From NYT: "Coronavirus Live Updates: U.S. Projects Summer Spike in Infections if Stay-At-Home Orders Are Lifted"

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/10/us/coronavirus-updates-usa.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20200410&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=88591053&segment_id=24678&user_id=a4394b6a5672354a123af665691a6f2d#link-cfe0b1a

"The government’s conclusions are sobering. Without any mitigation, such as school closings, shelter-in-place orders, telework and socially distancing, the death toll from coronavirus could have reached 300,000. But if the administration lifts the 30-day stay-at-home orders, the death total is estimated to reach 200,000, even if schools remain closed until summer, 25 percent of the country continues to work from home and some social distancing continues.

If nothing was done, infection rates would top out at 195 million Americans, and 965,000 people would require hospitalization in an intensive care unit, according to the projections’ “best guess.” But with a 30-day shelter in place and other measures, infections would still reach 160 million and 740,000 would need intensive care."

Yikes!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on April 10, 2020, 02:05:21 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 10, 2020, 01:58:10 PM

From NYT: "Coronavirus Live Updates: U.S. Projects Summer Spike in Infections if Stay-At-Home Orders Are Lifted"

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/10/us/coronavirus-updates-usa.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20200410&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=88591053&segment_id=24678&user_id=a4394b6a5672354a123af665691a6f2d#link-cfe0b1a

"The government’s conclusions are sobering. Without any mitigation, such as school closings, shelter-in-place orders, telework and socially distancing, the death toll from coronavirus could have reached 300,000. But if the administration lifts the 30-day stay-at-home orders, the death total is estimated to reach 200,000, even if schools remain closed until summer, 25 percent of the country continues to work from home and some social distancing continues.

If nothing was done, infection rates would top out at 195 million Americans, and 965,000 people would require hospitalization in an intensive care unit, according to the projections’ “best guess.” But with a 30-day shelter in place and other measures, infections would still reach 160 million and 740,000 would need intensive care."

Yikes!

Cases peaking 6 months from the start of stay at home?  So basically stay in lockdown till a vaccine is created.  Perfect.  Half the country would be unemployed, but at least we were cautious and not selfish!

"Hey everyone thats encouraged by progress, here's a reason to not be enthused at all. its actually just as bad, maybe worse!"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 10, 2020, 02:33:20 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 10, 2020, 12:39:28 PM

Bumping this - because it wasn't discussed, and the first paragraph of the article essentially proves COVID-19 death counts are wrong...

I mean - 8x - and these people aren't being counted against COVID-19. So models, experts, idiots, etc.  Nobody knows the extent of this yet (and maybe never will)

Thanks for posting the article, Rocky. I read it a couple days ago, but when I wanted to post it, I couldn't find it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 10, 2020, 02:51:40 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on April 10, 2020, 02:05:21 PM

Cases peaking 6 months from the start of stay at home?  So basically stay in lockdown till a vaccine is created.  Perfect.  Half the country would be unemployed, but at least we were cautious and not selfish!

"Hey everyone thats encouraged by progress, here's a reason to not be enthused at all. its actually just as bad, maybe worse!"

Exactly. There’s no reasonable pathway out of this. #LastDays

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 10, 2020, 03:15:47 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on April 10, 2020, 02:05:21 PM

Cases peaking 6 months from the start of stay at home?  So basically stay in lockdown till a vaccine is created.  Perfect.  Half the country would be unemployed, but at least we were cautious and not selfish!

"Hey everyone thats encouraged by progress, here's a reason to not be enthused at all. its actually just as bad, maybe worse!"

Actually, the numbers say it's not as bad as expected, as long as we follow the guidelines. But if we don't keep following them, well, then we will go from bad to worse in a big hurry.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 10, 2020, 03:21:00 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on April 10, 2020, 02:05:21 PM

Cases peaking 6 months from the start of stay at home?  So basically stay in lockdown till a vaccine is created.  Perfect.  Half the country would be unemployed, but at least we were cautious and not selfish!

"Hey everyone thats encouraged by progress, here's a reason to not be enthused at all. its actually just as bad, maybe worse!"

Wags, what is your suggestion for starting to open the economy back up? I ask thiis because you have a bigger stake than most of us. I also won’t hold you to whatever answer you give as things change quickly and I’m sure your thoughts may change as data changes.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 10, 2020, 03:26:10 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 10, 2020, 03:21:00 PM

Wags, what is your suggestion for starting to open the economy back up? I ask thiis because you have a bigger stake than most of us. I also won’t hold you to whatever answer you give as things change quickly and I’m sure your thoughts may change as data changes.

I came back to edit my post to ask that exact question, but you beat me to it.

I'm all for hearing alternative suggestions that are based on the existing data and trends.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 10, 2020, 03:40:29 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on April 10, 2020, 02:05:21 PM

Cases peaking 6 months from the start of stay at home?  So basically stay in lockdown till a vaccine is created.  Perfect.  Half the country would be unemployed, but at least we were cautious and not selfish!

"Hey everyone thats encouraged by progress, here's a reason to not be enthused at all. its actually just as bad, maybe worse!"

and the other half would have severe mental health issues.

So if 80% of those tested are negative what are the symptoms that are getting them tested?  Is this a case of you are sure you have it cause someone you know has it and you "feel" sick.  We have all seen it.  You kiss your girlfriend and a day later she has strep now your throat is killing you so you must have strep. 
The number of negative tests puzzles me with how hard it is to be tested

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on April 10, 2020, 03:56:53 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 10, 2020, 03:15:47 PM

Actually, the numbers say it's not as bad as expected, as long as we follow the guidelines. But if we don't keep following them, well, then we will go from bad to worse in a big hurry.

I meant moreso that the perceived efforts and sacrifices are rendered meaningless unless to bar the door for another 2/3/4 months.

Quote from: Jockey on April 10, 2020, 03:21:00 PM

Wags, what is your suggestion for starting to open the economy back up? I ask thiis because you have a bigger stake than most of us. I also won’t hold you to whatever answer you give as things change quickly and I’m sure your thoughts may change as data changes.

Off the top of my head?  Keep gathering size regulations in place. Continue to recommend/mandate social distancing for vulnerable populations.  Continue to push for increased hospital/healthcare capacity. DEMAND government/administration/whoever put full resources and priority on testing.

And given the above, begin opening back up in May.  Don't turn on a firehose in places like NYC or SF, but elsewhere. 

I don't have all the answers, and I'm a bit less conservative about it here than some for obvious reasons, but seeing model-fueled opinions that we need to carry on as we have for the last 3+ weeks until August is just not feasible from an economic perspective.  Listen, my grandmother is in her 80s on oxygen.  My other grandmother just turned 90.  My father is 61 and diabetic.  I am not immune from vulnerable people in my life.  However, I also work with my father and know that this going to August will kill the business he built, put 25+ people worldwide out of work, and that will be as debilitating to him.  We're not alone in our situation.

My buddy is a consultant, has done very well.  But his business is largely restructuring and bankruptcy work.  Seems like a great time for his field?  The opposite.  He was in El Paso/Juarez turning around a struggling factory.  Made some tough cuts but got some footing.  Then this hit, they will likely have to shutter it.  And the outlook for their work is bleak.  Can't travel to clients.  Turn around plays are being discarded to just potentially shut down and strip.  His firm is looking at potentially going on hiatus for MONTHS if something doesn't change.

Aside from some political infighting, we've been pretty fair and balanced here weighing economic and "human interest" perspectives, which is appreciated and refreshing.  But sadly its a rarity.  Its either deal with COVID denying ultra-business viewpoints, or "its just money, business will come back, thats what the stimulus is for" making you feel like you're some reptile for being concerned about revenue and profits when someone's Grandma passed away from COVID.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 10, 2020, 04:23:47 PM

I appreciate the response. I can throw out opinions all I want, but for me personally, it is little more than an inconvenience. I had to cancel trips to the Smokies (would have left home this Sunday) and Moab, Utah (early May). That has basically been the sum total effect on my life. I bought a new vehicle in early March and I could have gotten it for at least 5 grand less now, but that's life. So I try not to complain about the stay-at-home orders.

Of course I am not referencing the immense suffering this has caused to thousands of people and families. That is where the real heartbreak is and those families have my prayers.

Yeah, it has cost me a lot of money, but not enough to affect my life one way or the other. I realize it is different for millions and my opinions generally are referring to them rather than myself. As I said, I don't think I have the right to whine when this is hitting millions of others way harder.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on April 10, 2020, 04:26:59 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 10, 2020, 04:23:47 PM

I appreciate the response. I can throw out opinions all I want, but for me personally, it is little more than an inconvenience. I had to cancel trips to the Smokies (would have left home this Sunday) and Moab, Utah (early May). That has basically been the sum total effect on my life. I bought a new vehicle in early March and I could have gotten it for at least 5 grand less now, but that's life. So I try not to complain about the stay-at-home orders.

Of course I am not referencing the immense suffering this has caused to thousands of people and families. That is where the real heartbreak is and those families have my prayers.

Yeah, it has cost me a lot of money, but not enough to affect my life one way or the other. I realize it is different for millions and my opinions generally are referring to them rather than myself. As I said, I don't think I have the right to whine when this is hitting millions of others way harder.

One way to look at the vehicle....by the end of this, you will have put way less miles on it than you would have if we had not had a pandemic, which means it will have depreciated less.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 10, 2020, 04:29:02 PM

Wags I find you to have a very balanced opinion on this topic of which I agree.  We need to find a solution to be as open as possible as quick as possible. 

To me there are two disheartening things. 

1. I speak with people (not here) who think it’s feasible to ‘open things up like they were and just accept the whatever comes on the death side.  I personally think it’s a non starter for many reasons including economic ones (ie wouldn’t achieve what is hoped).  These are real people I have interacted with and not hyperbole/news boogie men or women.

2. I am not yet encouraged that we have a mass/central solution to test, trace, control in a more open environment.  I want my government (local, state, and federal) to give me the plan.  Willing to take more risk if there is one. 

Putting (1) aside. The game changer in my opinion is one or more of the therapies taking off.  That with a mediocre effort on 2 and we are back in business.  Without (2) and therapy you won’t eliminate the fear or the spread.  So worst outcome. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 10, 2020, 04:31:19 PM

Quote from: Coleman on April 10, 2020, 04:26:59 PM

One way to look at the vehicle....by the end of this, you will have put way less miles on it than you would have if we had not had a pandemic, which means it will have depreciated less.

Hah - I like the positive attitude.  I just closed on a new house Mar 13 (Fri 13...I know)...I know you're in a similar boat - but on the upside, I've been able to utilize having this house WAY more than I would have pre-covid :)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on April 10, 2020, 04:46:45 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 10, 2020, 04:31:19 PM

Hah - I like the positive attitude.  I just closed on a new house Mar 13 (Fri 13...I know)...I know you're in a similar boat - but on the upside, I've been able to utilize having this house WAY more than I would have pre-covid :)

Closing the sale of my condo a week from today. Closing on the new home May 1. While I think our new house is definitely worth less than what we are paying for it now, we are probably getting way more for our condo than we would had we waited. So I think its basically a wash.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 10, 2020, 04:47:06 PM

JWags - appreciate your response, and can see the merits in possibly a gradual, cautious reopening of places (with major reminders about precautions like physical distancing, hand washing, etc). Maybe that’s the middle ground, with the caveat that we might need to shut many places down again if the precautions aren’t enough.

I just wish federal officials would get serious about prompt and widespread testing and contact tracing. Instead, they leave testing to a hodgepodge of state and private entities, and hope states similarly develop a contact tracing mechanism. All should really be done at the federal level, since reopening things presumably would mean interstate travel; a potentially huge issue if contact tracing isn’t a federal initiative.

Anyhow, I’d be A LOT more comfortable with things starting to open up if we had those two things available and consistent across the country. Maybe that’s what ultimately wakes up the administration; they can reopen the economy if they let CDC do what it was created for - disease control and prevention.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 10, 2020, 05:25:26 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on April 10, 2020, 03:56:53 PM

My buddy is a consultant, has done very well.  But his business is largely restructuring and bankruptcy work.  Seems like a great time for his field?  The opposite.  He was in El Paso/Juarez turning around a struggling factory.  Made some tough cuts but got some footing.  Then this hit, they will likely have to shutter it.  And the outlook for their work is bleak.  Can't travel to clients.  Turn around plays are being discarded to just potentially shut down and strip.  His firm is looking at potentially going on hiatus for MONTHS if something doesn't change.

Can confirm, consulting in my industry is at a standstill.  Other than annuity projects that go on regardless, new business is frozen tight. There are only so many ways to tell your clients how to run their business when their business isn't running.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 10, 2020, 05:26:30 PM

Quote from: Coleman on April 10, 2020, 04:26:59 PM

One way to look at the vehicle....by the end of this, you will have put way less miles on it than you would have if we had not had a pandemic, which means it will have depreciated less.

Small victories :-\

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 10, 2020, 05:32:35 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on April 10, 2020, 12:43:06 PM

This should be used against a$$hole antivaxers in general not just covid

Connecticut was inprocess of doing this.  The governor was pushing mandatory vaccinations to attend public school with no exceptions.  Legislature had hearings and was most likely going with the governor before everything got put on Coronavirus hold.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 10, 2020, 06:10:19 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 10, 2020, 12:00:58 PM

Maybe I've been misreading it all this time ... but isn't the main purpose of a mask to catch one's own "droplets," and thereby not affect others?

Theoretically, there are millions and millions and millions of carriers who don't know they are carriers.

For this purpose, even home-made "masks" theoretically are better than none, right? Because I can't believe anybody with any medical or science knowledge believes that a bandana or a coffee filter or a t-shirt is going to protect the wearer of that jury-rigged "mask."

To your point, yes, they are better than nothing, but imagine a vacuum pressed against cloth.  Sure it will stop some things, but of course not as good as a real respirator.  Now imagine that vacuum even 1cm back from the piece of cloth.  Where is the air that enters the vacuum coming from?  Of course, some is coming through the piece of cloth into the mask, but physics tells us path of least resistance.  So the air comes in around the sides more than through the cloth.  Same rules apply when you're sneezing and coughing.  Sure, the cloth catches SOME of the droplets, but a good portion goes out around the sides of the mask.

So, you're not wrong when you say something is better than nothing, but UJ isn't wrong when he says its like putting a band-aid on a gushing wound.

edit: jesus.  spelling and grammar was real bad.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 10, 2020, 06:20:10 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 10, 2020, 05:25:26 PM

Can confirm, consulting in my industry is at a standstill.  Other than annuity projects that go on regardless, new business is frozen tight. There are only so many ways to tell your clients how to run their business when their business isn't running.

For 2020, I have needed and planned trips to see customers in China, India,  Germany, as well as another 4-6 domestic ones.  No idea when they will happen?  Maybe something in the 4Qtr?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 10, 2020, 06:21:58 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 10, 2020, 04:47:06 PM

I just wish federal officials would get serious about prompt and widespread testing and contact tracing. Instead, they leave testing to a hodgepodge of state and private entities, and hope states similarly develop a contact tracing mechanism. All should really be done at the federal level, since reopening things presumably would mean interstate travel; a potentially huge issue if contact tracing isn’t a federal initiative.

I agree with this.

Today I heard discussion about perhaps being able to open up some areas sooner than others. I understand why they want to do this, but it's not as if there will be walls in place. You open up, say, Missouri ... but there is absolutely nothing to stop infected folks from Chicago and Springfield from driving down I-55 into St. Louis.

There are no easy answers, that's for sure, and I really appreciate the discussion here.

It's why we elect people whom we hopefully trust to look at all the facts and data and then make difficult decisions -- preferably without worrying about political ramifications. A little pie-in-the-sky of me, I know.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 10, 2020, 08:21:07 PM

Got a path yet, bois??? #LastDays

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 10, 2020, 08:36:56 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 10, 2020, 08:21:07 PM

Got a path yet, bois??? #LastDays

Best way out is for POTUS to tell CDC (the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) to, you know, control and prevent further spread of COVID. If he doesn’t, and continues to prevent CDC from doing what it was created to do, it’s gonna be a hodgepodge of testing and contact tracing.

To summarize:

CDC allowed to do its job: quicker recovery.

CDC handcuffed: slower and fragmented recovery.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 10, 2020, 08:38:29 PM

Listen to science.   Support experiments.  Seek ways to help others.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 10, 2020, 08:42:46 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 10, 2020, 08:36:56 PM

Best way out is for POTUS to tell CDC (the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) to, you know, control and prevent further spread of COVID. If he doesn’t, and continues to prevent CDC from doing what it was created to do, it’s gonna be a hodgepodge of testing and contact tracing.

To summarize:

CDC allowed to do its job: quicker recovery.

CDC handcuffed: slower and fragmented recovery.

So the president is handcuffing the CDC’ making things worse. Ok, what specifically do we need him to do / change?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 10, 2020, 08:46:26 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 10, 2020, 08:42:46 PM

So the president is handcuffing the CDC’ making things worse. Ok, what specifically do we need him to do / change?

Where to begin.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 10, 2020, 08:49:53 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 10, 2020, 08:42:46 PM

So the president is handcuffing the CDC’ making things worse. Ok, what specifically do we need him to do / change?

Order the CDC to take over and greatly expand the testing process, and develop a mechanism for contact tracing.

They have done both in other countries where leaders exhibited leadership, so I’d like to think we can do it here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 10, 2020, 09:09:21 PM

FWIW, CDC’s Mission Statement:

CDC works 24/7 to protect America from health, safety and security threats, both foreign and in the U.S. Whether diseases start at home or abroad, are chronic or acute, curable or preventable, human error or deliberate attack, CDC fights disease and supports communities and citizens to do the same.

CDC increases the health security of our nation. As the nation’s health protection agency, CDC saves lives and protects people from health threats. To accomplish our mission, CDC conducts critical science and provides health information that protects our nation against expensive and dangerous health threats, and responds when these arise.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 10, 2020, 09:10:48 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 10, 2020, 08:49:53 PM

Order the CDC to take over and greatly expand the testing process, and develop a mechanism for contact tracing.

They have done both in other countries where leaders exhibited leadership, so I’d like to think we can do it here.

Why do you think this hasn’t been done? Is it not their mission!?! Wtf they doing

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 10, 2020, 09:18:51 PM

How do you put someone on ignore?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 10, 2020, 09:21:53 PM

There is no way out of this, guys. How do we want to spend our last days before the riots, looting, etc is the question.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 10, 2020, 09:21:58 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 10, 2020, 09:19:54 PM

Your mom still gone see it, boi

WTF does that even mean? Have you lost your mind? Get help, really, talk to someone.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on April 10, 2020, 09:22:49 PM

Have people still not realized it’s a bit?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 10, 2020, 09:24:05 PM

A long time ago.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 10, 2020, 09:24:22 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 10, 2020, 09:10:48 PM

Why do you think this hasn’t been done? Is it not their mission!?! Wtf they doing

I don’t know, and I do NOT want to take this down a political path. But bear in mind that POTUS has an aversion to admitting failures on his watch, so perhaps he doesn’t want to admit that an agency he is responsible for has done a terrible job so far, so he is pushing the problem (and the perceived responsibility) onto the states.

Like I said, just my best hunch.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 10, 2020, 09:24:30 PM

Quote from: wadesworld on April 10, 2020, 09:22:49 PM

Have people still not realized it’s a bit?

Hence the ignore request. Ironic that through all the crap on scoop, this is what causes me to use the ignore feature. He’s worse than cheeks.

It’s a it by a sad and pathetic person, then.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 10, 2020, 09:29:08 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on April 10, 2020, 09:24:30 PM

Hence the ignore request. Ironic that through all the crap on scoop, this is what causes me to use the ignore feature. He’s worse than cheeks.

It’s a it by a sad and pathetic person, then.

Sorry, but our society is done. It’s over. If you want to ignore the truth, cool.  I’d buy you a beer at a bar, but that will not be possible. Good luck!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 10, 2020, 09:44:32 PM

For another interesting read, here is CDC’s summary of its response to the H1N1 threat in 2009-10.

https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/cdcresponse.htm

To save people time, it includes increasing testing capacity by developing PCR tests for the virus, contact tracing, and a number of other steps.

Ask yourself why they would do this in 2009 for H1N1, but not in 2019 for COVID.

I’ll leave it there by repeating: our best way out of this is for CDC to get in, catch up with the states, and then lead us out of this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 10, 2020, 09:50:57 PM

A little worried we are going to see the economy opened back up by May 1st. Some republican governors in deep red states already posturing towards opening things back up.

At the same time, you have the president creating a 2nd council, whose focus will be economics and opening up the government. That will give him the ability to say that the experts said we needed to open up.

The posturing by GOP governors strongly suggests they have some assurances that the party and president are on board with ending recommended restrictions at the end of the month.

May 1st would be way too early. Would result in a 2nd major wave, and either a lot more deaths, or a 2nd closure which would likely be more economically devastating.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 10, 2020, 10:07:37 PM

Way too early for what? It’ll create the real surge and it’ll be ugly.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 10, 2020, 10:40:47 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 10, 2020, 10:07:37 PM

Way too early for what? It’ll create the real surge and it’ll be ugly.

Meh.  I need a new tv.  Lets riot.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 11, 2020, 01:06:22 AM

Quote from: wadesworld on April 10, 2020, 09:22:49 PM

Have people still not realized it’s a bit?

No. I think he is just a little coward who can’t handle pressure. Stuck alone in his apartment. Darkness arrives and the fear comes oozing out.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on April 11, 2020, 02:47:10 AM

Quote from: forgetful on April 10, 2020, 09:50:57 PM

A little worried we are going to see the economy opened back up by May 1st. Some republican governors in deep red states already posturing towards opening things back up.

At the same time, you have the president creating a 2nd council, whose focus will be economics and opening up the government. That will give him the ability to say that the experts said we needed to open up.

The posturing by GOP governors strongly suggests they have some assurances that the party and president are on board with ending recommended restrictions at the end of the month.

May 1st would be way too early. Would result in a 2nd major wave, and either a lot more deaths, or a 2nd closure which would likely be more economically devastating.

Your opinion, of course, but easy for you to say.  You may be right, but there are A LOT of experts out there and all of them can’t be right. 

   we have a world of scientists, biologists, epidemiologists, etc working on interim care meds until a vaccine is formulated.  We are at the tipping point of the “safe at home” thingy.  It may cure the disease, but blow up the economy to the point where the Chinese wanted...hey, we’re from China and we’re here to help?  I’d rather hear that from the whitehouse and I trust them a helluva lot more than Xi jinping. 

It’s called stealth warfare...winning without firing a shot

Back to your point forget-elections have consequences.  A leader is voted on here and he has to take a position. I’d rather have a business man fix this than a lifelong politician. I don’t care, as many of you think here, that he is profiting off this even though that’s pure b.s.  you can’t tell me every damn one of those pols knew when to sell their chit besides those few pols we know about. It sure didn’t take the previous potus to fill up the bank account.  So I don’t want to hear about who’s making money here. Hedge fund dudes are making more than God selling and buying and shorting and buying   All I care about right now is our middle class, because they are the ones that really drive our economy.

   We’ve got an election in 5 more months.  If this doesn’t work, uncle joe will fix it all better...oy vey

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 11, 2020, 08:10:49 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 11, 2020, 02:47:10 AM

Back to your point forget-elections have consequences.  A leader is voted on here and he has to take a position. I’d rather have a business man fix this than a lifelong politician.

But he's a terrible businessman.  He's a celebrity.

Regardless, this isn't a problem for the President to "fix."  It's a problem for the President to use the resources of the federal government to manage.  And while he has done some good things, he started the management of the problem late, and still envisions himself as way more of an expert than he really is.  This has lead us down false paths (hydroxy) and delays that have cost lives (shutting down states in the south).

Strong leaders don't bluff their way through things they don't know.  They don't surround themselves with "yes men" or people who fawn over them.  They are comfortable knowing what they don't know, but finding people who do know and letting them manage it for you.

Read the book "Team of Rivals" if you want to see what political leadership in difficult times is about.  This President has done pretty much the opposite.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 11, 2020, 08:22:30 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 11, 2020, 02:47:10 AM

Your opinion, of course, but easy for you to say.  You may be right, but there are A LOT of experts out there and all of them can’t be right. 

   we have a world of scientists, biologists, epidemiologists, etc working on interim care meds until a vaccine is formulated.  We are at the tipping point of the “safe at home” thingy.  It may cure the disease, but blow up the economy to the point where the Chinese wanted...hey, we’re from China and we’re here to help?  I’d rather hear that from the whitehouse and I trust them a helluva lot more than Xi jinping. 

It’s called stealth warfare...winning without firing a shot

Back to your point forget-elections have consequences.  A leader is voted on here and he has to take a position. I’d rather have a business man fix this than a lifelong politician. I don’t care, as many of you think here, that he is profiting off this even though that’s pure b.s.  you can’t tell me every damn one of those pols knew when to sell their chit besides those few pols we know about. It sure didn’t take the previous potus to fill up the bank account.  So I don’t want to hear about who’s making money here. Hedge fund dudes are making more than God selling and buying and shorting and buying   All I care about right now is our middle class, because they are the ones that really drive our economy.

   We’ve got an election in 5 more months.  If this doesn’t work, uncle joe will fix it all better...oy vey

Wow ... lots here, rocket.

1. Elections Have Consequences. Totally agree. So let me ask you this ... Did the 2018 election also have consequences? You know, the one in which suburban women were so repulsed by the president that they showed up in droves to turn House districts that had been Republican for decades over to the Dems. Which, of course, led to the impeachment that you so often decry. Don't like it? Tough! Elections have consequences!

As for the consequences of the 2016 election, we're certainly seeing them now. We as a country elected a man who ran on a platform of science denial, who spent years appointing unqualified people to important jobs (and firing them and hiring the next group of unqualified hacks), who was uniquely unprepared for the presidency, and who cares only about himself. Tens of thousands dead, and probably more, not to mention all those scarred for life physically, financially and emotionally. Tough consequence.

2. I'd Rather Have a Businessman. Yep, quite a self-made man he is. Given hundreds of millions of dollars by his daddy, who also bought him bone spurs and taught him how to be a racist slumlord. Bankrupted several casinos before he had to shut them down; oversaw the collapse of the USFL; defrauded Trump U students before having to shut his scam school down; ran Trump Steaks, Trump Jets and numerous other Trump enterprises into the ground; had to shut down his foundation because he used the money illegally and on himself (there's a shock). How much is your heroic businessman actually worth? We don't know, because he's the only major-party presidential candidate in more than 40 years to not make his taxes public - something he promised to do 100 times (100 lies).

3. All I Care About Is the Middle Class. That's noble of you ... and it makes you very different from your emperor, who doesn't give a rat's rump about the middle class.

4. I Trust the "whitehouse" More Than Xi Jinping. Interesting that the leader of that "whitehouse" actually said this about his own hand-picked Fed chair, Jay Powell: "My only question is, who is our bigger enemy, Jay Powel or Chairman Xi?"

5. Uncle Joe Will Fix This - Oy Vey. Yes, rocket, it's impossible that Biden - or anybody else with a pulse - could have done better than the self-proclaimed Chosen One, right?

6. Chinese Wanted This. Well, I guess this is a step up from blaming the Deep State, at least. Gotta run now, rocket, and make sure my tin-foil hat fits right.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on April 11, 2020, 08:40:19 AM

The undercounting of COVID-19 deaths:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/10/upshot/coronavirus-deaths-new-york-city.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 11, 2020, 08:45:04 AM

In times of crisis, character is revealed.     Are you trying to move things forward and do the most good for the most people, attempting to lift everyone up?     Or it it all about you?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 11, 2020, 08:45:28 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on April 11, 2020, 08:40:19 AM

The undercounting of COVID-19 deaths:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/10/upshot/coronavirus-deaths-new-york-city.html

Yep. This is gonna be the next big war the Liar In Chief wages with "the enemy of the American people." In the end, he will try to say that an inconsequential number of people have died, and that is "proof" that he did a "perfect job - just like that phone call."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 11, 2020, 08:50:00 AM

Quote from: MU82 on April 11, 2020, 08:45:28 AM

Yep. This is gonna be the next big war the Liar In Chief wages with "the enemy of the American people." In the end, he will try to say that an inconsequential number of people have died, and that is "proof" that he did a "perfect job - just like that phone call."

You're doing it again.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lighthouse 84 on April 11, 2020, 08:56:12 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 11, 2020, 08:50:00 AM

You're doing it again.

Every time I go to the Superbar and see the “This is a Politics Free Zone” at the top, I silently say, “except for the Covid-19 thread”. 

With all that goes on in here, why not just open up a political thread again?  Either that or start banning more.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 11, 2020, 08:57:30 AM

Over the top, Mike.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 11, 2020, 08:59:26 AM

Quote from: tower912 on April 11, 2020, 08:45:04 AM

In times of crisis, character is revealed.     Are you trying to move things forward and do the most good for the most people, attempting to lift everyone up?     Or it it all about you?

Yes indeed.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/10/newfound-popularity-americas-governors-shows-what-trump-doesnt-get/?utm_source=reddit.com

"But the real story is in which governors are winning the support of their constituents. It’s not the governors who echoed Trump’s dismissive attitude toward the pandemic for as long as they could. The governors getting the highest marks are the ones who have been most aggressive in ordering closures and communicating to their states that this is an era-defining crisis that requires sacrifice from all of us.

That includes both Republicans and Democrats — but the Republicans are the ones who have been notable for going where the president wouldn’t. Mike DeWine in Ohio, for instance, got criticismfrom many, including Republicans, for shutting down the state’s primary election and issuing an early shelter-in-place order. He now enjoys an approval of more than 80 percent.

Other governors who have become hugely popular include Larry Hogan in Maryland (also a Republican), Gavin Newsom in California (whose approval shot up by more than 40 points), and Andrew M. Cuomo in New York, all of whom have taken strong steps to enforce social distancing and have made forceful public appearances telling their constituents how serious the crisis is.

One governor who hasn’t experienced that kind of bump? Trump loyalist Ron DeSantis in Florida.

In one poll DeSantis’s approval came in at 51 percent, which would be pretty good in ordinary times but actually represents a decline from what he got in some polls from before the pandemic. DeSantis delayed issuing a lockdown order until after many other states had already done so, earning widespread criticism."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on April 11, 2020, 09:07:39 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 11, 2020, 08:10:49 AM

But he's a terrible businessman.  He's a celebrity.

Regardless, this isn't a problem for the President to "fix."  It's a problem for the President to use the resources of the federal government to manage.  And while he has done some good things, he started the management of the problem late, and still envisions himself as way more of an expert than he really is.  This has lead us down false paths (hydroxy) and delays that have cost lives (shutting down states in the south).

Strong leaders don't bluff their way through things they don't know.  They don't surround themselves with "yes men" or people who fawn over them.  They are comfortable knowing what they don't know, but finding people who do know and letting them manage it for you.

Read the book "Team of Rivals" if you want to see what political leadership in difficult times is about.  This President has done pretty much the opposite.

Before this pandemic hit, the country was in pretty good shape

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 11, 2020, 09:11:10 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 11, 2020, 09:07:39 AM

Before this pandemic hit, the country was in pretty good shape

No one in manufacturing would tell you that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 11, 2020, 09:14:35 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 10, 2020, 09:44:32 PM

For another interesting read, here is CDC’s summary of its response to the H1N1 threat in 2009-10.

https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/cdcresponse.htm

To save people time, it includes increasing testing capacity by developing PCR tests for the virus, contact tracing, and a number of other steps.

Ask yourself why they would do this in 2009 for H1N1, but not in 2019 for COVID.

I’ll leave it there by repeating: our best way out of this is for CDC to get in, catch up with the states, and then lead us out of this.

I agree this thread has often devolved to politicization...so I will repost some substantive information I posted late last evening but seems to have gotten buried in the bickering.

And I will repeat the question that I have not yet heard a single answer to: Why was CDC (the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) proactive and engaged in disease control and prevention throughout the H1N1 outbreak in 2009-10 taking a back seat to state health departments and private entities in the fight against COVID in 2019-20?

What has changed from 2009 to 2019 that would lead a federal agency that was created specifically for this purpose to deflect blame and sit mostly on the sidelines once the going got tough?

 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 11, 2020, 09:15:10 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 11, 2020, 09:07:39 AM

Before this pandemic hit, the country was in pretty good shape

Leadership is tested in crisis and in bad times.  Anyone can be a leader when things are going well.

And "pretty good shape" is highly dependent on your circumstance.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 11, 2020, 09:18:41 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 11, 2020, 09:14:35 AM

I agree this thread has often devolved to politicization...so I will repost some substantive information I posted late last evening but seems to have gotten buried in the bickering.

And I will repeat the question that I have not yet heard a single answer to: Why was CDC (the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) proactive and engaged in disease control and prevention throughout the H1N1 outbreak in 2009-10 taking a back seat to state health departments and private entities in the fight against COVID in 2019-20?

What has changed from 2009 to 2019 that would lead a federal agency that was created specifically for this purpose to deflect blame and sit mostly on the sidelines once the going got tough?

Trust science.   Don't de-fund, de-emphasize, belittle, claim you know more than, and then blame the organization that you did all of these things to.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 11, 2020, 09:20:59 AM

Quote from: Mane'shouse 84 on April 11, 2020, 08:56:12 AM

Every time I go to the Superbar and see the “This is a Politics Free Zone” at the top, I silently say, “except for the Covid-19 thread”. 

With all that goes on in here, why not just open up a political thread again?  Either that or start banning more.

Because the mods agree politically with hypocritical nimwits like Nads. There are diff rules in place for different people.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on April 11, 2020, 09:28:15 AM

Only 150...yes, that is NOT a typo, only 150 people have died from Covid-19 that do NOT have pre existing conditions..It's time to re-open the country.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/04/numbers-150-americans-date-no-pre-existing-conditions-died-coronavirus-0-9/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on April 11, 2020, 09:29:36 AM

82 got his fix, he should be all good now for about 10-15 minutes now?  When did you become the campaign manager for uncle joe? 

We have what we have right now. Not many could have withstood the barage  of false info leading up to and thru the impeachment, the appointment of kavanough, and the everyday b.s. as 82 has just shown.

Every government official including the potus should be vetted but the extent to which this guy has been challenged, unlawfully should be a bar assign. Lost is the respect for the position and lost is the ability for our media to provide true checks and balances. The major networks have chucked any semblance of “journalistic” integrity  the only people,that helps are the DNC and its minions and even there it’s harmful because it blinds themselves to the corruption they’re  allowed to get away with. And that hurts all of us

We had new trade deals that no predecessor before even attempted. He brought back a lot of manufacturing that another thought he needed a magic wand for.  He’s getting a fare share of monies for the UN as we’ve been disproportionately were paying for. I don’t even want to get into the previous unemployment numbers. This country was humming while the rest of the world was coasting at best

I understand why people don’t like this guy, but that does give everyone a license to change what he has really done so far. Nor the right to abuse the office and try to oust him through a dishonest/ criminal coup

 he was voted in, he’s got some good people to help us out of this mess

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 11, 2020, 09:32:49 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 11, 2020, 09:29:36 AM

82 got his fix, he should be all good now for about 10-15 minutes now?  When did you become the campaign manager for uncle joe? 

We have what we have right now. Not many could have withstood the barage  of false info leading up to and thru the impeachment, the appointment of kavanough, and the everyday b.s. as 82 has just shown.

Every government official including the potus should be vetted but the extent to which this guy has been challenged, unlawfully should be a bar assign. Lost is the respect for the position and lost is the ability for our media to provide true checks and balances. The major networks have chucked any semblance of “journalistic” integrity  the only people,that helps are the DNC and its minions and even there it’s harmful because it blinds themselves to the corruption they’re  allowed to get away with. And that hurts all of us

We had new trade deals that no predecessor before even attempted. He brought back a lot of manufacturing that another thought he needed a magic wand for.  He’s getting a fare share of monies for the UN as we’ve been disproportionately were paying for. I don’t even want to get into the previous unemployment numbers. This country was humming while the rest of the world was coasting at best

I understand why people don’t like this guy, but that does give everyone a license to change what he has really done so far. Nor the right to abuse the office and try to oust him through a dishonest/ criminal coup

 he was voted in, he’s got some good people to help us out of this mess

You're doing just what you critized MU82 for.  Stick to the topic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 11, 2020, 09:36:10 AM

I told Mike he was over the top.   Rocket, you are being a hypocrite, acting as Trump's campaign manager while criticizing someone else for, in your words, acting as Uncle Joe's campaign manager.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 11, 2020, 09:42:32 AM

Quote from: muguru on April 11, 2020, 09:28:15 AM

Only 150...yes, that is NOT a typo, only 150 people have died from Covid-19 that do NOT have pre existing conditions..It's time to re-open the country.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/04/numbers-150-americans-date-no-pre-existing-conditions-died-coronavirus-0-9/

Guru here are the numbers of Americans with pre-existing conditions in America

Diabetes: 34 million (American diabetes association)
Hypertension: 100 million (American heart association)
Cancer: 1.7 million new per year
Chronic respiratory disease: 37 million (American lung association)

Note I didn’t add heart disease because I don’t know how to define it—but that’s big too

So not all additive, but a significant portion of Americans have ‘pre-existing conditions’

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on April 11, 2020, 09:46:55 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 11, 2020, 09:42:32 AM

Guru here are the numbers of Americans with pre-existing conditions in America

Diabetes: 34 million (American diabetes association)
Hypertension: 100 million (American heart association)
Cancer: 1.7 million new per year
Chronic respiratory disease: 37 million (American lung association)

So not all additive, but a significant portion of Americans have ‘pre-existing conditions’

Thin the herd! Drain the swamp! Open it back up!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Elonsmusk on April 11, 2020, 09:52:12 AM

Quote from: MU82 on April 11, 2020, 08:22:30 AM

Wow ... lots here, rocket.

1. Elections Have Consequences. Totally agree. So let me ask you this ... Did the 2018 election also have consequences? You know, the one in which suburban women were so repulsed by the president that they showed up in droves to turn House districts that had been Republican for decades over to the Dems. Which, of course, led to the impeachment that you so often decry. Don't like it? Tough! Elections have consequences!

As for the consequences of the 2016 election, we're certainly seeing them now. We as a country elected a man who ran on a platform of science denial, who spent years appointing unqualified people to important jobs (and firing them and hiring the next group of unqualified hacks), who was uniquely unprepared for the presidency, and who cares only about himself. Tens of thousands dead, and probably more, not to mention all those scarred for life physically, financially and emotionally. Tough consequence.

2. I'd Rather Have a Businessman. Yep, quite a self-made man he is. Given hundreds of millions of dollars by his daddy, who also bought him bone spurs and taught him how to be a racist slumlord. Bankrupted several casinos before he had to shut them down; oversaw the collapse of the USFL; defrauded Trump U students before having to shut his scam school down; ran Trump Steaks, Trump Jets and numerous other Trump enterprises into the ground; had to shut down his foundation because he used the money illegally and on himself (there's a shock). How much is your heroic businessman actually worth? We don't know, because he's the only major-party presidential candidate in more than 40 years to not make his taxes public - something he promised to do 100 times (100 lies).

3. All I Care About Is the Middle Class. That's noble of you ... and it makes you very different from your emperor, who doesn't give a rat's rump about the middle class.

4. I Trust the "whitehouse" More Than Xi Jinping. Interesting that the leader of that "whitehouse" actually said this about his own hand-picked Fed chair, Jay Powell: "My only question is, who is our bigger enemy, Jay Powel or Chairman Xi?"

5. Uncle Joe Will Fix This - Oy Vey. Yes, rocket, it's impossible that Biden - or anybody else with a pulse - could have done better than the self-proclaimed Chosen One, right?

6. Chinese Wanted This. Well, I guess this is a step up from blaming the Deep State, at least. Gotta run now, rocket, and make sure my tin-foil hat fits right.

Based on the available data, when would you have shut all businesses down and ordered a nationwide shelter in place?  Now consider if YOU were a small business owner, with a modest income, living in South Dakota - would you have felt it was "fair" to have your livelihood taken away at a time when there were 2 reported cases in your state, while New York had 30,000?

Further, do you really think a "non-racist" like yourself would have shut down travel from China on January 31. Or from Europe on March 17?

You do realize the the middle class and low income segments are the most devastated from the economic shutdown, correct?  Those of us with college degrees, are in a far better place to cope with this shutdown - many of us haven't been laid off/out of work, and have savings accounts/retirement accounts.

Prior to a once in a 100 year pandemic, Trump was presiding over a period of record employment & stock market, rising wages, rightfully confronting China, Mexico, and Canada on trade FOR THE BENEFIT OF OUR MIDDLE CLASS, took out Al-Baghdadi, ISIS neutralized, drawing down our troops abroad.  The guy has been far from "unhinged," a war-mongerer, etc.  Remember all the doom and gloom predictions put forth by your favorite news sources once he was elected - predicting war, stock market crash, etc.  "Unhinged."  "Mentally unstable."  "Journalists" offering those opinions. Classy. 

I can understand not liking his demeanor, tone, arrogance, and how he conducts himself - but, all in all he has done a good job.  Of course, pulling us out of Paris Climate Accord ruffled feathers, yet that decision had just as much to do with again trying to level the playing field with China, as it did anything else.  China is the enemy, and ultimately directly responsible for the gutting of our middle class, regardless of who was in the Presidency prior to Trump.  From Reagan to Obama - all are guilty of facilitating China's rise to power/dominance.  If you give a sh$t about humanity, you certainly should be disturbed and aggrieved by how China treats its people/workers.

I'm proud of how our Federal, State, and Local governments have come together to fight this once in a century pandemic.  You have both sides of the aisle working their asses off to solve this problem. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 11, 2020, 09:56:30 AM

Quote from: muguru on April 11, 2020, 09:28:15 AM

Only 150...yes, that is NOT a typo, only 150 people have died from Covid-19 that do NOT have pre existing conditions..It's time to re-open the country.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/04/numbers-150-americans-date-no-pre-existing-conditions-died-coronavirus-0-9/

So "everyone" can go back to work...except older workers, smokers, obese people, people with cardiovascular diseases including hypertension, diabetics, people with respiratory diseases including asthma, cancer patients, and any others who have a compromised immune system.

Sounds doable. Who's gonna tell POTUS he fits in the "older workers" category?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 11, 2020, 09:59:34 AM

Guru, assuming the data in your link is accurate, you make a very good point.     However, I think the responses to you are also spot on as to the number of people who have these co morbidities.     It appears that half of the adult population in America has at least one of them.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 11, 2020, 10:04:49 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 11, 2020, 09:07:39 AM

Before this pandemic hit, the country was in pretty good shape

Sure, if you're an old white male.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 11, 2020, 10:12:31 AM

Look, the country is likely going to "open up" sometime in early to mid May.  Maybe Memorial Day at the latest.  And we are going to have to see what happens.  Hopefully we will be able to mitigate and manage, because going back into stay at home would be disasterous. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 11, 2020, 10:13:56 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 11, 2020, 10:12:31 AM

Look, the country is likely going to "open up" sometime in early to mid May.  Maybe Memorial Day at the latest.  And we are going to have to see what happens.  Hopefully we will be able to mitigate and manage, because going back into stay at home would be disasterous.

Get ready for disaster.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 11, 2020, 10:15:05 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 11, 2020, 10:12:31 AM

Look, the country is likely going to "open up" sometime in early to mid May.  Maybe Memorial Day at the latest.  And we are going to have to see what happens.  Hopefully we will be able to mitigate and manage, because going back into stay at home would be disasterous.

The country should open up ASAP.  I just wish we would do some of the things that will make it less chaotic and sustainable.  I am not interested in going back into this lockdown mess again in 3-4 weeks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 11, 2020, 10:16:22 AM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 11, 2020, 10:13:56 AM

Get ready for disaster.

You may be right.  But those making the economic arguments are eventually going to win people over.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 11, 2020, 10:18:21 AM

I'll answer for him since he may not be back for a while.

Quote from: Elonsmusk on April 11, 2020, 09:52:12 AM

Based on the available data, when would you have shut all businesses down and ordered a nationwide shelter in place?  Now consider if YOU were a small business owner, with a modest income, living in South Dakota - would you have felt it was "fair" to have your livelihood taken away at a time when there were 2 reported cases in your state, while New York had 30,000?

Probably the first week in February.  After seeing Wuhan locked up tighter than a tick, and seeing it spread like fire through China.  All it would have taken is about 10 minutes of looking at flight logs between China and the US.

Quote

Further, do you really think a "non-racist" like yourself would have shut down travel from China on January 31. Or from Europe on March 17?

Yes.  And I'd have closed off Europe to non-essential travel a week after I shut down travel to China.  Additionally, I'd have serious screening for everyone coming into the US from anywhere internationally.

Quote

You do realize the the middle class and low income segments are the most devastated from the economic shutdown, correct?  Those of us with college degrees, are in a far better place to cope with this shutdown - many of us haven't been laid off/out of work, and have savings accounts/retirement accounts.

Yes, everyone realizes this. What exactly is your point?

Quote

Prior to a once in a 100 year pandemic, Trump was presiding over a period of record employment & stock market, rising wages, rightfully confronting China, Mexico, and Canada on trade FOR THE BENEFIT OF OUR MIDDLE CLASS, took out Al-Baghdadi, ISIS neutralized, drawing down our troops abroad.  The guy has been far from "unhinged," a war-mongerer, etc.  Remember all the doom and gloom predictions put forth by your favorite news sources once he was elected - predicting war, stock market crash, etc.  "Unhinged."  "Mentally unstable."  "Journalists" offering those opinions. Classy. 

These are simply talking points.  I can easily make arguments against each, but you'd just write them off so why bother.

Quote

I can understand not liking his demeanor, tone, arrogance, and how he conducts himself - but, all in all he has done a good job.  Of course, pulling us out of Paris Climate Accord ruffled feathers, yet that decision had just as much to do with again trying to level the playing field with China, as it did anything else.  China is the enemy, and ultimately directly responsible for the gutting of our middle class, regardless of who was in the Presidency prior to Trump.  From Reagan to Obama - all are guilty of facilitating China's rise to power/dominance.  If you give a sh$t about humanity, you certainly should be disturbed and aggrieved by how China treats its people/workers.

Again, talking points.  China isn't to blame.  The American consumer's desire to buy cheap crap to keep up with the Jones' is the problem.  Who moved the manufacturing to China?  Was it US corporations?  Of course it was.  The first that did it made loads of money, and others had to follow suit to keep up.  And this all happened because of simple economics.  Not because China is the enemy.  The market found a way to make a cheaper widget, so it happened.  And it will happen again.  Cheap labor in China is going to taper off with the rise of their middle class.  Production will move again, and it will probably never come back to the US... I mean, unless we have a cheap labor pool... like you know, full automation.

Quote

I'm proud of how our Federal, State, and Local governments have come together to fight this once in a century pandemic.  You have both sides of the aisle working their asses off to solve this problem.

I'm proud of how SOME individual states have done, but our Federal response has been abysmal.  There is no sugar coating it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 11, 2020, 10:20:39 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 11, 2020, 10:15:05 AM

The country should open up ASAP.  I just wish we would do some of the things that will make it less chaotic and sustainable.  I am not interested in going back into this lockdown mess again in 3-4 weeks.

No ASAP would be wrong.  States are peaking shortly.  Two weeks after peak is when people should go back.  I'm thinking May 10.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 11, 2020, 10:22:12 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 11, 2020, 10:16:22 AM

You may be right.  But those making the economic arguments are eventually going to win people over.

And that is the problem. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPMMNvYTEyI

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 11, 2020, 10:25:33 AM

The point is that we need to concentrate on what "opening back up" looks like.  Not on if we are, or if we aren't.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 11, 2020, 10:26:20 AM

Quote from: tower912 on April 11, 2020, 09:59:34 AM

Guru, assuming the data in your link is accurate, you make a very good point.     However, I think the responses to you are also spot on as to the number of people who have these co morbidities.     It appears that half of the adult population in America has at least one of them.

And add to the count the people without pre existing conditions but live with people that do and you are talking about a large majority of the country.

There aren’t simple solutions despite what some say.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 11, 2020, 10:26:33 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 11, 2020, 10:20:39 AM

No ASAP would be wrong.  States are peaking shortly.  Two weeks after peak is when people should go back.  I'm thinking May 10.

I am not picking a date fluffy.  I stress the possible part of the acronym.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 11, 2020, 10:29:40 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 11, 2020, 10:25:33 AM

The point is that we need to concentrate on what "opening back up" looks like.  Not on if we are, or if we aren't.

At a minimum, aggressive and widely available testing, contact tracing, and continued strong emphasis on hand washing and physical distancing.

Unfortunately, I haven’t heard anything to indicate that we’re ready for widely available testing and contact tracing. CDC, can you hear me?!?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 11, 2020, 10:35:24 AM

Quote from: muguru on April 11, 2020, 09:28:15 AM

Only 150...yes, that is NOT a typo, only 150 people have died from Covid-19 that do NOT have pre existing conditions..It's time to re-open the country.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/04/numbers-150-americans-date-no-pre-existing-conditions-died-coronavirus-0-9/

Guru, there are reasons why news sources lie "the gateway pundit" are not trustworthy. This article is complete and total crap. Pure political propaganda. I'll go through why.

1. The preexisting condition death rates they are reporting are not for the US. Those co-morbidities are really really old. They come from Worldometers, and very old Chinese data. They have nothing to do with the US.

2. Even then, they either misreport the data intentionally, or did not bother to understand what they are actually reading. Given that the table they are referencing is clearly, labeled "Death rate all cases," I think it is the former. The death rate is 0.9% for ALL people that contract the virus that have no pre-existing conditions. That means that if all of 506,008 people that have been infected in the US have no pre-existing conditions, then 4554 people in the US would have died without pre-existing conditions.

Since the US hasn't been releasing all the co-morbity analysis we cannot know. Also, even being overweight is a "co-morbidity." So if your BMI is above 25, you have a co-morbidity. 71.6% of Americans are considered overweight.

This is why it is important to choose your news source wisely. This article is deliberate mis-reporting, to push an agenda that would endanger the health of Americans.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 11, 2020, 10:40:53 AM

Quote from: forgetful on April 11, 2020, 10:35:24 AM

Guru, there are reasons why news sources lie "the gateway pundit" are not trustworthy. This article is complete and total crap. Pure political propaganda. I'll go through why.

1. The preexisting condition death rates they are reporting are not for the US. Those co-morbidities are really really old. They come from Worldometers, and very old Chinese data. They have nothing to do with the US.

2. Even then, they either misreport the data intentionally, or did not bother to understand what they are actually reading. Given that the table they are referencing is clearly, labeled "Death rate all cases," I think it is the former. The death rate is 0.9% for ALL people that contract the virus that have no pre-existing conditions. That means that if all of 506,008 people that have been infected in the US have no pre-existing conditions, then 4554 people in the US would have died without pre-existing conditions.

Since the US hasn't been releasing all the co-morbity analysis we cannot know. Also, even being overweight is a "co-morbidity." So if your BMI is above 25, you have a co-morbidity. 71.6% of Americans are considered overweight.

This is why it is important to choose your news source wisely. This article is deliberate mis-reporting, to push an agenda that would endanger the health of Americans.

It's better to just not engage.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Archies Bat on April 11, 2020, 10:44:40 AM

We need a non-political meme contest.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 11, 2020, 10:46:41 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 11, 2020, 10:20:39 AM

No ASAP would be wrong.  States are peaking shortly.  Two weeks after peak is when people should go back.  I'm thinking May 10.

I would guess sometime around Mid May.  People just need to be smart and respect others as we have been currently.
Keep the physical distancing, practice washing hands covering your cough/sneeze.  That will all help in keeping things at bay.
Then have restaurants only open to half capacity and stores limit the number of people that get to enter

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 11, 2020, 10:57:15 AM

Ners and rocket: We will agree to disagree on the marks this president and his administration deserve for their response to this pandemic and most other things. The only poll or opinions that really matter will be conducted this fall.

Others: I'd rather not need to rebut what other Scoopers say about politics, but sometimes I simply feel it necessary. As do many of you, from both sides of the aisle.

I'll step out of this thread for the rest of the weekend now. Y'all stay healthy and enjoy your Easter, Passover or just being with family and friends, whether in person, virtually or otherwise.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 11, 2020, 10:57:35 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 11, 2020, 10:29:40 AM

At a minimum, aggressive and widely available testing, contact tracing, and continued strong emphasis on hand washing and physical distancing.

Testing and contact tracing won't happen in time.  So what do you do?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 11, 2020, 11:30:22 AM

Maybe quicker than we think — of course we haven’t done anything at scale yet except contract the virus!

 https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/492191-antibody-tests-for-the-coronavirus-could-be (https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/492191-antibody-tests-for-the-coronavirus-could-be)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 11, 2020, 12:10:43 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 11, 2020, 11:30:22 AM

Maybe quicker than we think — of course we haven’t done anything at scale yet except contract the virus!

 https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/492191-antibody-tests-for-the-coronavirus-could-be (https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/492191-antibody-tests-for-the-coronavirus-could-be)

Part of the problem is, we don't know what level of antibodies, if any, will generate any sense of immunity.

There have been zero tests on that yet.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 11, 2020, 12:12:02 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 11, 2020, 11:30:22 AM

Maybe quicker than we think — of course we haven’t done anything at scale yet except contract the virus!

 https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/492191-antibody-tests-for-the-coronavirus-could-be (https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/492191-antibody-tests-for-the-coronavirus-could-be)

Now can these be mass produced and how fast? How readily available to the average person?
I think those are the keys to this.  If we could all be screened then we have a good idea on the herd immunity.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Elonsmusk on April 11, 2020, 12:38:10 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 11, 2020, 10:18:21 AM

I'll answer for him since he may not be back for a while.

Probably the first week in February.  After seeing Wuhan locked up tighter than a tick, and seeing it spread like fire through China.  All it would have taken is about 10 minutes of looking at flight logs between China and the US.

Yes.  And I'd have closed off Europe to non-essential travel a week after I shut down travel to China.  Additionally, I'd have serious screening for everyone coming into the US from anywhere internationally.

Yes, everyone realizes this. What exactly is your point?

These are simply talking points.  I can easily make arguments against each, but you'd just write them off so why bother.

Again, talking points.  China isn't to blame.  The American consumer's desire to buy cheap crap to keep up with the Jones' is the problem.  Who moved the manufacturing to China?  Was it US corporations?  Of course it was.  The first that did it made loads of money, and others had to follow suit to keep up.  And this all happened because of simple economics.  Not because China is the enemy.  The market found a way to make a cheaper widget, so it happened.  And it will happen again.  Cheap labor in China is going to taper off with the rise of their middle class.  Production will move again, and it will probably never come back to the US... I mean, unless we have a cheap labor pool... like you know, full automation.

I'm proud of how SOME individual states have done, but our Federal response has been abysmal.  There is no sugar coating it.

Well. Kudos to you. You are more intuitive and brighter than any global leader, and the World Health Organization. Impressive.

Yet, you’d have further crushed those middle and low income Americans, most economically challenged. So. Bravo!!  Sure sounds like an “old white man” thing to do.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 11, 2020, 12:40:18 PM

Quote from: Elonsmusk on April 11, 2020, 12:38:10 PM

Well. Kudos to you. You are more intuitive and brighter than any global leader, and the World Health Organization. Impressive.

Thanks.  The day that the Chinese government started barricading Wuhan, was the time to act.  I'm sorry that was difficult for world leaders to see, but to me, it was plain as day.  The WHO has been awful in this pandemic as well.

Quote

Yet, you’d have further crushed those middle and low income Americans, most economically challenged. So. Bravo!!  Sure sounds like an “old white man” thing to do.

I really haven't missed your straw man arguments.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on April 11, 2020, 12:42:01 PM

US spy agencies were warning the US government about a health crisis in Wuhan in November. So sure, we can try to throw all the blame on China for downplaying the health crisis, but maybe listen to the spies you put in place for exactly this reason? Because you know they aren’t going to come out and give you every piece of information they have?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 11, 2020, 12:43:50 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on April 11, 2020, 12:12:02 PM

Now can these be mass produced and how fast? How readily available to the average person?
I think those are the keys to this.  If we could all be screened then we have a good idea on the herd immunity.

I mean, you can just drive down to your local Walgreens or Walmart and pull up in your car and get tested, right?  We've been doing that for how long now?  Or... wait... hold on a minute.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on April 11, 2020, 12:45:08 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 11, 2020, 12:43:50 PM

I mean, you can just drive down to your local Walgreens or Walmart and pull up in your car and get tested, right?  We've been doing that for how long now?  Or... wait... hold on a minute.

Anybody who wants a test can have one. People just don’t want to be tested. Duh.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 11, 2020, 12:57:06 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 11, 2020, 10:57:35 AM

Testing and contact tracing won't happen in time.  So what do you do?

Go tap someone at CDC on the shoulder and scream "WAKE THE HELL UP!!!"

If that doesn't work, it'll be quite a while before we can safely return to any semblance of normal because state public health departments don't have the resources the CDC does to coordinate a comprehensive pandemic response.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 11, 2020, 01:03:38 PM

What I find pretty amazing is how, right now, essentially every nation is lying about their number of cases and deaths. Largely, because they are unable to keep up with the dead, and unable to test everyone (particularly those that die).

People have posted about the undercounting in the US. Looking at other nations though, some are almost absurd. Ecuador for instance have hundreds of dead lining the streets, and have dug new graves for 10,000 people, recently, because they can't keep up with all the dead.

They report a total of 7,257 cases, and only 315 dead. They are an outlier, but the fact is that we may never know the full impact of this, neither in the US or abroad.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 11, 2020, 01:25:04 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 11, 2020, 12:43:50 PM

I mean, you can just drive down to your local Walgreens or Walmart and pull up in your car and get tested, right?  We've been doing that for how long now?  Or... wait... hold on a minute.

Hards you just can't wait to get all over people can you.  Why not read the full comments and take it into text.  My comment was about the antibody testing that is coming in the next week.  I was asking questions and giving what would work best.  If you actually would read and comprehend you might remember people discussing yesterday about vaccines coming out for everyone.  But you go on with your doom and gloom posts that helps us all much better

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 11, 2020, 01:34:49 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 10, 2020, 09:44:32 PM

For another interesting read, here is CDC’s summary of its response to the H1N1 threat in 2009-10.

https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/cdcresponse.htm

To save people time, it includes increasing testing capacity by developing PCR tests for the virus, contact tracing, and a number of other steps.

Ask yourself why they would do this in 2009 for H1N1, but not in 2019 for COVID.

I’ll leave it there by repeating: our best way out of this is for CDC to get in, catch up with the states, and then lead us out of this.

This is a good post.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 11, 2020, 01:58:20 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on April 11, 2020, 01:25:04 PM

Hards you just can't wait to get all over people can you.  Why not read the full comments and take it into text.  My comment was about the antibody testing that is coming in the next week.  I was asking questions and giving what would work best.  If you actually would read and comprehend you might remember people discussing yesterday about vaccines coming out for everyone.  But you go on with your doom and gloom posts that helps us all much better

I wasn't trying to jump on you.  I apologize if you felt like I was trying to, but it was intended as a general comment about how we don't have any of the testing that we were promised by our federal administration.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Silent Verbal on April 11, 2020, 02:01:22 PM

Wasn’t the entire point of the lockdown to make sure we didn’t overwhelm the healthcare system?  If that’s true, it seems like social distancing is working.

At this point, wouldn’t the best thing be to allow continued growth of herd immunity by opening the country back up through the warmer months?  Quarantine the seriously at risk and allow the younger and healthy population to mingle and build herd immunity, which could help offset a likely resurgence in the cooler months.  By the end of the year, we’ll have effective therapies and possibly a vaccine, if one is fast tracked (I think it will be).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 11, 2020, 02:16:20 PM

Quote from: Silent Verbal on April 11, 2020, 02:01:22 PM

Wasn’t the entire point of the lockdown to make sure we didn’t overwhelm the healthcare system?  If that’s true, it seems like social distancing is working.

At this point, wouldn’t the best thing be to allow continued growth of herd immunity by opening the country back up through the warmer months?  Quarantine the seriously at risk and allow the younger and healthy population to mingle and build herd immunity, which could help offset a likely resurgence in the cooler months.  By the end of the year, we’ll have effective therapies and possibly a vaccine, if one is fast tracked (I think it will be).

Theoretically, perhaps. But regarding the underlined, last night I heard an expert from the U of Washington say that if we reopen on May 1, we could be seeing renewed spikes as early as July. In other words, reopening now might not get us "through the warmer months."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 11, 2020, 02:36:54 PM

And there is zero evidence heat plays any role in suppressing the virus.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Silent Verbal on April 11, 2020, 02:55:23 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 11, 2020, 02:16:20 PM

Theoretically, perhaps. But regarding the underlined, last night I heard an expert from the U of Washington say that if we reopen on May 1, we could be seeing renewed spikes as early as July. In other words, reopening now might not get us "through the warmer months."

Yesterday’s NYT ran an article about how on March 24th, one model followed closely by Gov Cuomo predicted that New York would need 140,000 hospital beds by April 10.  They’re currently using about 18,500.  Using this model worked in that it scared people into taking social distancing seriously, which is good.  But the models and predictions are not always right.

Let’s say we push back to June 1, would the renewed spike happen in August?  We are going to need to accept a certain amount of risk.  That risk can be mitigated by quarantining the seriously at risk and letting the younger and healthier population build herd immunity. 

Think of all the millions of people who work in places like the service industry, retail, salons, etc who are simply unable to work right now.  All the small corner shops and restaurants and other small businesses that will go under if we remain on lockdown for two or more months.  Our solution to this problem has been to lock down first and ask questions later.  That was probably for the best.  But now that we’re a month in, it’s time for us to start discussing next steps.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 11, 2020, 03:25:38 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 11, 2020, 10:29:40 AM

At a minimum, aggressive and widely available testing, contact tracing, and continued strong emphasis on hand washing and physical distancing.

Unfortunately, I haven’t heard anything to indicate that we’re ready for widely available testing and contact tracing. CDC, can you hear me?!?

You are spot on, Gooo.

Every well thought out answer - whether by a group of governors, doctors, or innovative thinkers comes down to 2 main point. Widespread testing and contact tracing.

Those have not been done - and won't in the future with the arrogant fools that we have in charge. No. 1 is the leader who has been wrong on virtually everything. No. 2 is Jared who now has more say than anyone else in the administration. His skills (not even very good ones) are in selling real estate. So why wouldn't he be put in charge by Trump? No. 3 is the White robot science denier in charge of the task force who is afraid to even take a breath without praising Trump for allowing it.

But that isn't going to change. So, what should we do?

No.1. Put the military in charge of the response. They have better sourcing and supply people than anyone one else. Period. They also have an ability to get things done. The Katrina mess only started to clear up when Bush did this and put Gen. Honore in charge.

No. 2.  Fire the head of FEMA, put someone with knowledge and ability in charge and have them work with the Military.

No. 3. Nationalize corporations than can produce test kits. I'm not talking the Idiot-In-Chief's "everyone who wants a test can get one" quantities. I am talking about hundreds of millions, even billions of test kits so that everyone who goes back to work can be tested.

No. 4. Start opening the economy immediately when the test are available. Test workers as they go back and conduct contact tracing on everyone who is positive.


The problem, of course, is that none of these will be done with Trump in charge. He will just continue to hold his daily campaign rallies, lie to all Americans, berate the News Media, and make fatal decisions.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 11, 2020, 03:26:15 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 11, 2020, 10:57:35 AM

Testing and contact tracing won't happen in time.  So what do you do?

Then someone needs to make it happen.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 11, 2020, 03:30:03 PM

Quote from: tower912 on April 11, 2020, 08:45:04 AM

In times of crisis, character is revealed.     Are you trying to move things forward and do the most good for the most people, attempting to lift everyone up?     Or it it all about you?

Exactly. If you aren't working, volunteer at a food bank or hospital. If you are worried about catching the illness, give money to a food bank.

There are still things we all can do to help our fellow man.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on April 11, 2020, 03:43:34 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 11, 2020, 03:30:03 PM

Exactly. If you aren't working, volunteer at a food bank or hospital. If you are worried about catching the illness, give money to a food bank.

There are still things we all can do to help our fellow man.

How do people who aren't working and can't pay rent able to donate to a food bank

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 11, 2020, 04:09:59 PM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on April 11, 2020, 03:43:34 PM

How do people who aren't working and can't pay rent able to donate to a food bank

Wow. You are constantly on the prowl looking for a fight. Obviously, I am talking about people who are able to do so.

It's really very simple.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on April 11, 2020, 04:17:52 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 11, 2020, 04:09:59 PM

Wow. You are constantly on the prowl looking for a fight. Obviously, I am talking about people who are able to do so.

It's really very simple.

Just doing what you do. Pick the lowest hanging fruit and stick to it constantly.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 11, 2020, 04:51:09 PM

nm

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 11, 2020, 05:37:20 PM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on April 11, 2020, 03:43:34 PM

How do people who aren't working and can't pay rent able to donate to a food bank

If they can't donate money, maybe they can donate time.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 11, 2020, 05:51:07 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 11, 2020, 01:58:20 PM

I wasn't trying to jump on you.  I apologize if you felt like I was trying to, but it was intended as a general comment about how we don't have any of the testing that we were promised by our federal administration.

OK my bad then

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 11, 2020, 05:56:25 PM

If all the billionaires in the US donated everything except for $1B each, we could stay in this quarantine for plenty long enough to wait for a cure/vaccine, with all bills being paid for the middle and lower classes. No one would have to risk their lives to go back to work, and no small businesses would have to go out of business.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 11, 2020, 06:04:47 PM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on April 11, 2020, 04:17:52 PM

Just doing what you do. Pick the lowest hanging fruit and stick to it constantly.

Lmao.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 11, 2020, 06:36:04 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 11, 2020, 05:56:25 PM

If all the billionaires in the US donated everything except for $1B each, we could stay in this quarantine for plenty long enough to wait for a cure/vaccine, with all bills being paid for the middle and lower classes. No one would have to risk their lives to go back to work, and no small businesses would have to go out of business.

Lol

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 11, 2020, 06:41:07 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 11, 2020, 05:56:25 PM

If all the billionaires in the US donated everything except for $1B each, we could stay in this quarantine for plenty long enough to wait for a cure/vaccine, with all bills being paid for the middle and lower classes. No one would have to risk their lives to go back to work, and no small businesses would have to go out of business.

Show you work (the math) on this, please.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 11, 2020, 06:56:40 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 11, 2020, 06:41:07 PM

Show you work (the math) on this, please.

2+2=5 Lenny.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 11, 2020, 07:34:05 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 11, 2020, 06:41:07 PM

Show you work (the math) on this, please.

Well, the excess (above $1B each) for the US billionaires is $2.6T. That is roughly 12% of the entire US GDP. It would amount to $8k for every single American.

Also, I didn't mean "literally long enough to wait out a vaccine/cure". But it could buy 3-4 months.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on April 11, 2020, 07:38:59 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 11, 2020, 07:34:05 PM

Well, the excess (above $1B each) for the US billionaires is $2.6T. That is roughly 12% of the entire US GDP. It would amount to $8k for every single American.

Also, I didn't mean "literally long enough to wait out a vaccine/cure". But it could buy 3-4 months.

$2K a month for many many people is a pay cut, not to mention businesses have plenty of other expenses other than payroll. What you’re proposing would do nothing to help businesses struggling other than give some employees a pay cut and make things even worse for them when they open back up after this magical 3-4 month hiatus.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 11, 2020, 07:44:55 PM

NYT: “He Could Have Seen What Was Coming: Behind Trump’s Failure on the Virus”

Pretty damning report on the administration repeatedly ignoring warnings:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/11/us/politics/coronavirus-trump-response.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

Nothing surprising, but new details about who said what and when.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Johnny B on April 11, 2020, 07:51:48 PM

Why is this thread listed under "child boards"? What that mean

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 11, 2020, 07:52:15 PM

Milwaukee hospitals at critically low levels of personal protective equipment

https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/milwaukee-hospitals-at-critically-low-levels-of-personal-protective-equipment

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 11, 2020, 08:10:40 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on April 11, 2020, 07:52:15 PM

Milwaukee hospitals at critically low levels of personal protective equipment

https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/milwaukee-hospitals-at-critically-low-levels-of-personal-protective-equipment

Fake news ::)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on April 11, 2020, 08:11:59 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 11, 2020, 07:44:55 PM

NYT: “He Could Have Seen What Was Coming: Behind Trump’s Failure on the Virus”

Pretty damning report on the administration repeatedly ignoring warnings:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/11/us/politics/coronavirus-trump-response.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

Nothing surprising, but new details about who said what and when.

Trump did not fail America. China failed America.

Or so I’m told.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on April 11, 2020, 08:47:36 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on April 11, 2020, 07:52:15 PM

Milwaukee hospitals at critically low levels of personal protective equipment

https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/milwaukee-hospitals-at-critically-low-levels-of-personal-protective-equipment

So what confuses me is how they are at such low levels with only 950 COVID hospitalizations statewide. I’m not downplaying the seriousness of anything, but just how unprepared or improperly set up they were logistically for it. They aren’t at overrun or capacity levels (I saw estimates of 2500ish ICU beds in the state).  Happy to understand otherwise, but this seems like more of a process and prep issue than being overwhelmed by cases

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 11, 2020, 09:00:40 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 11, 2020, 07:44:55 PM

NYT: “He Could Have Seen What Was Coming: Behind Trump’s Failure on the Virus”

Pretty damning report on the administration repeatedly ignoring warnings:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/11/us/politics/coronavirus-trump-response.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

Nothing surprising, but new details about who said what and when.

That is absolutely damning.

"Mr. Trump was walking up the steps of Air Force One to head home from India on Feb. 25 when Dr. Nancy Messonnier, the director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, publicly issued the blunt warning they had all agreed was necessary.

But Dr. Messonnier had jumped the gun. They had not told the president yet, much less gotten his consent.

On the 18-hour plane ride home, Mr. Trump fumed as he watched the stock market crash after Dr. Messonnier’s comments. Furious, he called Mr. Azar when he landed at around 6 a.m. on Feb. 26, raging that Dr. Messonnier had scared people unnecessarily."


FEBRUARY 25!!!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 11, 2020, 09:13:20 PM

This thread started in late jan and has been ‘ahead’ of the public story.  With very little inside info other than business connections to China.   

Why this is surprising?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on April 11, 2020, 09:41:19 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 11, 2020, 09:00:40 PM

That is absolutely damning.

"Mr. Trump was walking up the steps of Air Force One to head home from India on Feb. 25 when Dr. Nancy Messonnier, the director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, publicly issued the blunt warning they had all agreed was necessary.

But Dr. Messonnier had jumped the gun. They had not told the president yet, much less gotten his consent.

On the 18-hour plane ride home, Mr. Trump fumed as he watched the stock market crash after Dr. Messonnier’s comments. Furious, he called Mr. Azar when he landed at around 6 a.m. on Feb. 26, raging that Dr. Messonnier had scared people unnecessarily."


FEBRUARY 25!!!!

Yup. Puts his own self image ahead of the health of Americans all over the country.

That and this email:

“We are making every misstep leaders initially made in table-tops at the outset of pandemic planning in 2006. We had systematically addressed all of these and had a plan that would work - and has worked in Hong Kong/Singapore. We have thrown 15 years of institutional learning out the window and are making decisions based on intuition. Pilots can tell you what happens when a crew makes decisions based on intuition rather than what their instruments are telling them. And we continue to push the stick forward...”

But hey. China lied so the administration really couldn’t have done anything differently.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 11, 2020, 09:55:05 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 11, 2020, 09:00:40 PM

That is absolutely damning.

"Mr. Trump was walking up the steps of Air Force One to head home from India on Feb. 25 when Dr. Nancy Messonnier, the director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, publicly issued the blunt warning they had all agreed was necessary.

But Dr. Messonnier had jumped the gun. They had not told the president yet, much less gotten his consent.

On the 18-hour plane ride home, Mr. Trump fumed as he watched the stock market crash after Dr. Messonnier’s comments. Furious, he called Mr. Azar when he landed at around 6 a.m. on Feb. 26, raging that Dr. Messonnier had scared people unnecessarily."


FEBRUARY 25!!!!

Not to toot my own horn, but I pointed  out that the CDC message had been notably "muted" in their Feb 28 transcript

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=59849.msg1214438#msg1214438

Feb 28:
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/t0228-COVID-19-update.html

And here's the Feb 25 transcript
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/t0225-cdc-telebriefing-covid-19.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 11, 2020, 09:56:58 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 11, 2020, 07:34:05 PM

Also, I didn't mean "literally long enough to wait out a vaccine/cure". But it could buy 3-4 months.

So you said we could but you meant we couldn’t. Fair enough.

And if we took all of their money, we’d have another 621 billion to pass out. But even if every billionaire was broke (and everyone they employ was out of work) it still wouldn’t be enough.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 11, 2020, 10:43:00 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 11, 2020, 09:56:58 PM

So you said we could but you meant we couldn’t. Fair enough.

And if we took all of their money, we’d have another 621 billion to pass out. But even if every billionaire was broke (and everyone they employ was out of work) it still wouldn’t be enough.

(https://media0.giphy.com/media/1Syi8XSAkiFupEty1u/giphy.gif)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 11, 2020, 10:44:54 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 11, 2020, 09:56:58 PM

So you said we could but you meant we couldn’t. Fair enough.

And if we took all of their money, we’d have another 621 billion to pass out. But even if every billionaire was broke (and everyone they employ was out of work) it still wouldn’t be enough.

I was just saying something off the cuff with some hyperbole as a counter to the ""we need to open the economy now" argument. The open the economy now will cost a lot of lives. The argument is that we have to do it, because our economy can't afford it.

The counter to this, is our economy cannot afford to have $3.2T in the hands of ~600 americans, while also designing a bailout that largely benefits those same 600 Americans. They aren't the ones making a sacrifice here. The middle and lower classes are. They will be the ones returning to work, getting sick, and possibly dying.

But if you want me to show you the math. $2.6T/128M households=$20312.5 per household. The average household income is $61,937. So $20,312.5/61937 = 0.33. Or 1/3rd of the year = 4 months. It is exactly enough money to pay the income for all households in the US for 4 months.

I'm not actually saying, to take the $2.6T from them (roughly $20k per American household=4 months of salary for the average US household). It is as absurd as saying we can risk the lives of many, for the economy.

I need to remember that the internet is the wrong place for nuanced symbolic statements. My apologies. 15 lashes for me. Return to our usually programming.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on April 11, 2020, 11:04:02 PM

What a map ..

https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/fz8wmq/image_showing_secondary_locations_of_anonymized/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 11, 2020, 11:08:55 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 11, 2020, 09:56:58 PM

So you said we could but you meant we couldn’t. Fair enough.

And if we took all of their money, we’d have another 621 billion to pass out. But even if every billionaire was broke (and everyone they employ was out of work) it still wouldn’t be enough.

God bless maggie Thatcher, aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 11, 2020, 11:16:51 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on April 11, 2020, 08:47:36 PM

So what confuses me is how they are at such low levels with only 950 COVID hospitalizations statewide. I’m not downplaying the seriousness of anything, but just how unprepared or improperly set up they were logistically for it. They aren’t at overrun or capacity levels (I saw estimates of 2500ish ICU beds in the state).  Happy to understand otherwise, but this seems like more of a process and prep issue than being overwhelmed by cases

The problem is dealing with incoming patients. Because the disease can initially manifest in many ways, proper protocol would be to treat all remotely possible COVID patients as if they have the disease. That means you are going to go through absurd numbers of PPE. There is also a limit to how much you could stockpile.

In prior disasters (see H1N1) the emergency reserves came from the federal government. That didn't happen this round.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 11, 2020, 11:25:20 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 11, 2020, 09:00:40 PM

That is absolutely damning.

"Mr. Trump was walking up the steps of Air Force One to head home from India on Feb. 25 when Dr. Nancy Messonnier, the director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, publicly issued the blunt warning they had all agreed was necessary.

But Dr. Messonnier had jumped the gun. They had not told the president yet, much less gotten his consent.

On the 18-hour plane ride home, Mr. Trump fumed as he watched the stock market crash after Dr. Messonnier’s comments. Furious, he called Mr. Azar when he landed at around 6 a.m. on Feb. 26, raging that Dr. Messonnier had scared people unnecessarily."


FEBRUARY 25!!!!

Agreed. I don’t understand how people can ignore such clear evidence of callous self-interest at the expense of human lives and our economic well-being. People are dying and the economy is collapsing.

We desperately need the CDC to take over to minimize the damage. Will he ever allow it?!?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HutchwasClutch on April 11, 2020, 11:36:02 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 11, 2020, 11:25:20 PM

We desperately need the CDC to take over to minimize the damage. Will he ever allow it?!?

Take over what exactly? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 12, 2020, 12:29:43 AM

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on April 11, 2020, 11:36:02 PM

Take over what exactly?

The testing and contact tracing - our best chance to reopen the country in any reasonable timeframe.

See my earlier post where the CDC itself described its role in the H1N1 outbreak, and prevented the disaster we’re living with today. And ask yourself why it isn’t doing the same thing today.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 12, 2020, 12:34:04 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 12, 2020, 12:29:43 AM

The testing and contact tracing - our best chance to reopen the country in any reasonable timeframe.

See my earlier post where the CDC itself described its role in the H1N1 outbreak, and prevented the disaster we’re living with today. And ask yourself why it isn’t doing the same thing today.

WI Dept of Health is doing the contact tracing, at least in Madison/Dane Co.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 12, 2020, 12:34:12 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 11, 2020, 11:25:20 PM

Agreed. I don’t understand how people can ignore such clear evidence of callous self-interest at the expense of human lives and our economic well-being. People are dying and the economy is collapsing.

We desperately need the CDC to take over to minimize the damage. Will he ever allow it?!?

Logic would seem to agree with you, but ultimately the article is immaterial.

His supporters simply don't care and he knows it. That is why he called them stupid and immoral - yet they still didn't care.

Most of his supporters will never even hear what the NYT said. He has convinced them that the NYT is fake news and they don't know any better.

The best proof of this is the reply from Hutch right after your post. Utter willful ignorance. He really doesn't care if Trump minimized and mismanaged the crisis from the start. He doesn't care how many deaths are on the president's hands by putting his own selfish concerns above the needs of the country. He doesn't care how many lies the president tells. He believes the president does no wrong.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 12, 2020, 12:42:22 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on April 12, 2020, 12:34:04 AM

WI Dept of Health is doing the contact tracing, at least in Madison/Dane Co.

And we see how well national vs local contact tracing works by comparing the H1N1 outbreak with COVID-19.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 12, 2020, 01:03:26 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 12, 2020, 12:29:43 AM

The testing and contact tracing - our best chance to reopen the country in any reasonable timeframe.

See my earlier post where the CDC itself described its role in the H1N1 outbreak, and prevented the disaster we’re living with today. And ask yourself why it isn’t doing the same thing today.

I agree regarding testing and contact tracing and frankly have no idea how the CDC hasn't been running that from the start. Totally bizarre.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 12, 2020, 01:12:13 AM

Plasma transfusion

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/04/11/milwaukee-man-stable-after-experimental-coronavirus-plasma-transfusion/2977352001/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 12, 2020, 07:24:23 AM

Quote from: forgetful on April 12, 2020, 01:03:26 AM

I agree regarding testing and contact tracing and frankly have no idea how the CDC hasn't been running that from the start. Totally bizarre.

Because the federal government is too fixated on how to "open everything back up," without understanding that you just can't open things back up without a plan for how you can manage the disease moving forward.

Read this...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/10/contact-tracing-coronavirus-strategy/

"Administration officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity to describe internal deliberations, say the White House has made a deliberate political calculation that it will better serve Trump’s interest to put the onus on governors — rather than the federal government — to figure out how to move ahead.

“It’s mind-boggling, actually, the degree of disorganization,” said Tom Frieden, former Centers for Disease Control and Prevention director. The federal government has already squandered February and March, he noted, committing “epic failures” on testing kits, ventilator supply, protective equipment for health workers and contradictory public health communication. The next failure is already on its way, Frieden said, because “we’re not doing the things we need to be doing in April.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on April 12, 2020, 07:40:11 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 12, 2020, 12:42:22 AM

And we see how well national vs local contact tracing works by comparing the H1N1 outbreak with COVID-19.

I'm not sure what that comparison is .. but in the end, it's always the local municipality's health department (in conjuction with the state) doing contract tracing.

Sure .. the CDC can do contact tracing for XX cases, but they do not have the manpower in every city and state in the country.    It's up to the localities.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 12, 2020, 07:45:13 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 12, 2020, 07:40:11 AM

I'm not sure what that comparison is .. but in the end, it's always the local municipality's health department (in conjuction with the state) doing contract tracing.

Sure .. the CDC can do contact tracing for XX cases, but they do not have the manpower in every city and state in the country.    It's up to the localities.

No but they should be able to coordinate a plan and provide resources for the state and local governments.  Right now they aren't doing much of anything.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 12, 2020, 08:22:40 AM

Read this tweet and its thread.

https://twitter.com/EricLiptonNYT/status/1249009586905939968?s=20

Quotes very specific emails that shows that the administration knew what was going on and ignoring the advice of public health professionals within HHS.  Also lamented how behind the curve both the CDC and WHO have been this entire time.

If you care about truth over political belief, read up on this.  These aren't opinions.  These are facts.

Vote for whomever you want to vote for.  I'm not going to debate you on that.  But you need to do so with full understanding of the facts at hand.  If that doesn't change your mind, then it doesn't change your mind.

But I am going to make this odd parallel.  When I decided to move from the Projo to Nojo camp earlier this year, it was logically freeing for me.  I didn't have to make excuses.  Didn't have to make illogical assumptions.  Facts are facts.  Truth is truth.

I'm going to attend my Easter service virtually now.  Have a blessed Easter everyone!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 12, 2020, 09:47:15 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 12, 2020, 07:40:11 AM

I'm not sure what that comparison is .. but in the end, it's always the local municipality's health department (in conjuction with the state) doing contract tracing.

Sure .. the CDC can do contact tracing for XX cases, but they do not have the manpower in every city and state in the country.    It's up to the localities.

No, it isn't always the local municipality - see the CDC's summary of H1N1. In that case, the CDC did contact tracing from the start and prevented it from becoming what COVID has become. And even though they don't have the manpower to do it now that it has spread, they still have the technology and expertise to provide the technological resources and coordinate it nationally, and yet Trump still keeps saying it's a problem for local officials to deal with on their own.

Also, if and when the country opens up, ask yourself how Dane County's contact tracing will work once people start traveling around the country. If a contact goes to Dallas before county officials get to them, is someone from Madison gonna hop a plane to Dallas? Or are they gonna call someone in Dallas and hope that they have contact tracing in place.

Or would it be better if the whole thing was led and coordinated by CDC?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on April 12, 2020, 09:55:56 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on April 11, 2020, 07:52:15 PM

Milwaukee hospitals at critically low levels of personal protective equipment

https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/milwaukee-hospitals-at-critically-low-levels-of-personal-protective-equipment

I can vouch for this.  My daughter recently began putting in 12-hour shifts at the Covid-19 unit at St. Luke's.  She has accepted the fact that she will likely catch the virus because she is not able to change masks as often as protocol requires. She has no hesitation, however, about going in every day to care for these folks, and I am very proud of her.

I tried to find the recent post where someone said they had a personal stash of N-95 masks, but haven't been successful so far.  If he sees this, I am humbly asking if he could spare a few for people who are literally face to face with infected people all day long.  I can PM him with my daughter's address. When she isn't at the hospital, she is quarantined.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on April 12, 2020, 10:25:15 AM

Quote from: Jockey on April 12, 2020, 01:12:13 AM

Plasma transfusion

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/04/11/milwaukee-man-stable-after-experimental-coronavirus-plasma-transfusion/2977352001/

This is the quickest way back to normal life. The bigger the pool gets the faster we can go back to normal.

Itll also he a great stopgap until a vaccine

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 12, 2020, 10:27:46 AM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on April 12, 2020, 10:25:15 AM

This is the quickest way back to normal life. The bigger the pool gets the faster we can go back to normal.

Itll also he a great stopgap until a vaccine

Yep. I have posted this before and on other threads, but here is a link for the national study, which currently has over 800 hospitals and blood banks participating to provide standardized administration, monitoring and data collection.

https://www.uscovidplasma.org

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 12, 2020, 11:08:56 AM

Quote from: Jockey on April 12, 2020, 01:12:13 AM

Plasma transfusion

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/04/11/milwaukee-man-stable-after-experimental-coronavirus-plasma-transfusion/2977352001/

This has been my treatment of choice for awhile. While it also is/was not a guaranteed positive treatment. There is solid precedence of this approach working in other viral diseases with great success (see Ebola).

It would have been nice if weeks ago, we were talking about the importance of those that have recovered donating blood/plasma as much as possible so we can save a lot of lives, instead of focusing on a different drug with little to no proven efficacy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 12, 2020, 11:35:29 AM

Quote from: forgetful on April 12, 2020, 11:08:56 AM

This has been my treatment of choice for awhile. While it also is/was not a guaranteed positive treatment. There is solid precedence of this approach working in other viral diseases with great success (see Ebola).

It would have been nice if weeks ago, we were talking about the importance of those that have recovered donating blood/plasma as much as possible so we can save a lot of lives, instead of focusing on a different drug with little to no proven efficacy.

It would have been nice if a lot of things were done weeks ago.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 12, 2020, 11:41:44 AM

Quote from: forgetful on April 12, 2020, 01:03:26 AM

I agree regarding testing and contact tracing and frankly have no idea how the CDC hasn't been running that from the start. Totally bizarre.

While your point is correct, wide scale testing requires the Federal Gov't to order industries that are capable to produce test kits by the hundreds of millions. Then the CDC can then be the main hub for contact tracing working with the states.

It all comes down to testing. If we had the tests, we could start opening back up almost immediately. Work and schools.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on April 12, 2020, 11:43:34 AM

Do the plasma transfusions have to be coming from a person who has had, and then recovered from, covid 19? Wouldn’t that require much more testing than we have available for that to be scalable to the point it can help us open things back up?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 12, 2020, 11:48:25 AM

Quote from: wadesworld on April 12, 2020, 11:43:34 AM

Do the plasma transfusions have to be coming from a person who has had, and then recovered from, covid 19? Wouldn’t that require much more testing than we have available for that to be scalable to the point it can help us open things back up?

Yes and yes.

From the national protocol: "The protocol requires the patient or family member to consent to receiving plasma from someone who has recovered from COVID-19."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 12, 2020, 11:52:02 AM

Plasma transfusions are going through the same accelerated assessments as other treatments.   The plasma does have to come from someone who has had and recovered from the virus.   Yes, that means we need to accelerate testing and have willing donors.   

The questions have to do with whether the plasma from someone who had a mild case have the same antibodies, the same volume of antibodies, and do you want plasma from someone who survived a mild case or severe case.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on April 12, 2020, 12:10:06 PM

Quote from: tower912 on April 12, 2020, 11:52:02 AM

The questions have to do with whether the plasma from someone who had a mild case have the same antibodies, the same volume of antibodies, and do you want plasma from someone who survived a mild case or severe case.

Yes, they should be the same antibodies. Unless there are multiple strains running around all over the country. Which would be good and bad.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 12, 2020, 12:12:19 PM

Quote from: wadesworld on April 12, 2020, 11:43:34 AM

Do the plasma transfusions have to be coming from a person who has had, and then recovered from, covid 19? Wouldn’t that require much more testing than we have available for that to be scalable to the point it can help us open things back up?

Right now yes, it does require they come from a recovered patient.

Quote from: tower912 on April 12, 2020, 11:52:02 AM

The questions have to do with whether the plasma from someone who had a mild case have the same antibodies, the same volume of antibodies, and do you want plasma from someone who survived a mild case or severe case.

Yes, but we do have some data now on which antibodies are most effective at neutralizing the virus. I posted on this paper previously, but the results of this study provide some information on which antibodies are having the most effect. These can be made using recombinant approaches on scale. We can then produce industrial scale amounts of the most effective antibodies, and we would no longer need recovered patients.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.21.990770v1.full.pdf

If it is pushed very hard, I think this would be the most effective treatment to come online fast.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 12, 2020, 01:45:11 PM

For the past couple of days, I have been saying that, despite its initial failure, the CDC should be leading the response against COVID by aggressively increasing our testing capacity, and implementing a comprehensive contact tracing infrastructure. I pointed to the CDC's own summary of its response to H1N1, where it did those very things. And I have argued that the fragmented system of state and local public health department efforts to take over these roles will be slow and haphazard at best, because the CDC, not state and local public health departments, was created to deal with exactly this kind of threat.

On cue...this editorial in today's NYT makes the exact same argument, with additional details:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/opinion/cdc-coronavirus.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 12, 2020, 02:34:12 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on April 12, 2020, 09:55:56 AM

She has no hesitation, however, about going in every day to care for these folks, and I am very proud of her.

As you should be. Thank her for all of us.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 12, 2020, 03:52:40 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 11, 2020, 09:00:40 PM

That is absolutely damning.

"Mr. Trump was walking up the steps of Air Force One to head home from India on Feb. 25 when Dr. Nancy Messonnier, the director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, publicly issued the blunt warning they had all agreed was necessary.

But Dr. Messonnier had jumped the gun. They had not told the president yet, much less gotten his consent.

On the 18-hour plane ride home, Mr. Trump fumed as he watched the stock market crash after Dr. Messonnier’s comments. Furious, he called Mr. Azar when he landed at around 6 a.m. on Feb. 26, raging that Dr. Messonnier had scared people unnecessarily."


FEBRUARY 25!!!!

His reaction is damning and often is because he wants to be in charge.  The question whether anything should have been done sooner based on the real information given to him is the actual question. 

Here is what the argument will be to his supporters.  Fauci, a scientist, said Americans should not be worried in January. He was interviews this morning and confirmed. WHO, scientists and health officials, in January said this is animal to human only, not human to human. 

On March 1st the US had one death.  By the time the US shut down travel to China, a position opposed by significantly powerful voices at the time, other powerful nations had not done so.  They have scientists and spies, too.  The Navarro memo said a huge number could die, it also said the number could be zero.  It wasn’t a range of 100k to 500k, but nothing to a high number.  The worst kind of advice because it is so extreme.

My son sent this to me today, this is exactly the playbook he will run.  Sharing this to illustrate how that side will argue their case.

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1249372642454515712?s=21

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 12, 2020, 04:04:24 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 12, 2020, 03:52:40 PM

His reaction is damning and often is because he wants to be in charge.  The question whether anything should have been done sooner based on the real information given to him is the actual question. 

Here is what the argument will be to his supporters.  Fauci, a scientist, said Americans should not be worried in January. He was interviews this morning and confirmed. WHO, scientists and health officials, in January said this is animal to human only, not human to human. 

On March 1st the US had one death.  By the time the US shut down travel to China, a position opposed by significantly powerful voices at the time, other powerful nations had not done so.  They have scientists and spies, too.  The Navarro memo said a huge number could die, it also said the number could be zero.  It wasn’t a range of 100k to 500k, but nothing to a high number.  The worst kind of advice because it is so extreme.

My son sent this to me today, this is exactly the playbook he will run.  Sharing this to illustrate how that side will argue their case.

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1249372642454515712?s=21

Yep.  Gaslighting all the way. 

And Fauci has already said that he underestimated certain aspects of this.  But there was still plenty of time after person to person transmission was confirmed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 12, 2020, 04:12:41 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 11, 2020, 07:34:05 PM

Well, the excess (above $1B each) for the US billionaires is $2.6T. That is roughly 12% of the entire US GDP. It would amount to $8k for every single American.

Also, I didn't mean "literally long enough to wait out a vaccine/cure". But it could buy 3-4 months.

Wall Street Journal this week an article about billionaires and specifically Bill Gates.  The question was if Warren (whom I would not have voted for if she won the nomination) and others pushing wealth tax had their way what would happen to the generosity and commitment of billionaires?  The paper honed on the vaccine push he is self funding in parallel with what world governments are doing.  The argument may me that the money would go to the government to fund more research, but sometimes you need an outside view without government bureaucracy to obtain an outcome.  I support the idea of public and private push for a vaccine, would that be possible if some policies presented were enacted years ago? 

Billionaires have their uses. https://www.wsj.com/articles/billionaires-have-their-uses-11586301710

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 12, 2020, 04:13:34 PM

Quote from: Johnny B on April 11, 2020, 07:51:48 PM

Why is this thread listed under "child boards"? What that mean

COVID-19 board is a child of the superbar, which is it's parent board, which naturally must be similar to the Komodo dragon - it can have virgin births.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 12, 2020, 04:24:02 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 11, 2020, 08:22:30 AM

Wow ... lots here, rocket.

1. Elections Have Consequences. Totally agree. So let me ask you this ... Did the 2018 election also have consequences? You know, the one in which suburban women were so repulsed by the president that they showed up in droves to turn House districts that had been Republican for decades over to the Dems. Which, of course, led to the impeachment that you so often decry. Don't like it? Tough! Elections have consequences!

As for the consequences of the 2016 election, we're certainly seeing them now. We as a country elected a man who ran on a platform of science denial, who spent years appointing unqualified people to important jobs (and firing them and hiring the next group of unqualified hacks), who was uniquely unprepared for the presidency, and who cares only about himself. Tens of thousands dead, and probably more, not to mention all those scarred for life physically, financially and emotionally.

Do you believe someone else would have handled differently in an election year? I do not, from either party.  In my view they would have waited as long when WHO and CDC said nothing to worry about in late January.

In 2010 our side lost heavily in the midterms.  Was it due to repulsion by suburban women?  The President’s party suffers in the midterms normally.  Reagan, Clinton, Obama, Trump, LBJ, Grant, Carter, Taft.  This is normal.

2018 saw an increase in the Senate for his party, that has happened only seven times in history where a president saw a gain in either the House or Senate.  Bush was the one exception that saw a gain in the House and Senate in 2002.  That had only happened twice in history. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 12, 2020, 04:32:37 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 12, 2020, 03:52:40 PM

His reaction is damning and often is because he wants to be in charge.  The question whether anything should have been done sooner based on the real information given to him is the actual question. 

Here is what the argument will be to his supporters.  Fauci, a scientist, said Americans should not be worried in January. He was interviews this morning and confirmed. WHO, scientists and health officials, in January said this is animal to human only, not human to human. 

On March 1st the US had one death.  By the time the US shut down travel to China, a position opposed by significantly powerful voices at the time, other powerful nations had not done so.  They have scientists and spies, too.  The Navarro memo said a huge number could die, it also said the number could be zero.  It wasn’t a range of 100k to 500k, but nothing to a high number.  The worst kind of advice because it is so extreme.

My son sent this to me today, this is exactly the playbook he will run.  Sharing this to illustrate how that side will argue their case.

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1249372642454515712?s=21

Perhaps that will be his argument, and perhaps people will buy it. I suspect some will.

But how can he rationalize not getting the CDC out on the tip of the spear right now? The CDC was formed specifically for the purpose of disease control and prevention, and only it is uniquely qualified to do and/or coordinate the large-scale testing and contact tracing that will be required to reopen the economy. (See the links I posted earlier describing CDC’s Mission Statement, it’s accomplishments in the H1N1 outbreak, and the NYT description of what CDC is capable of.) The fragmented system we now have - the result of CDC sitting on the sidelines - clearly isn’t getting it done fast enough.

How can he rationalize that away?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 12, 2020, 04:33:25 PM

Quote from: Coleman on April 09, 2020, 09:47:10 AM

Might be true in Germany, but the US of A has wayyyyy more fat pepole, diabetic people, and people with heart disease than Germany. No way our mortality rate is that low.

3% is certainly high (mild/asymptomatic cases being undercounted), but I'd be very, very surprised if USA's mortality rate is under 1%.

Fauci suggests it may be considerably less than 1% in late February before major actions were taken.  He is the CDC and a scientist.  These are the people the administration listens to.  When we say here listen to the scientists it sounds as though that has happened and their opinions keep changing.  The models do, too.

Now, he still says low at 60000 total US deaths as a result of actions taken.  Confusing?  It leads me to believe the scientists do not really know and this has been a reaction based answer from the start.  Watching his interviews today strengthens that belief.  We all want our scientists and medical people to have the answers.  As he said today, they didn’t and this continues to evolve and the prediction games are nothing but games.

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/926089

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 12, 2020, 04:40:54 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 12, 2020, 04:33:25 PM

Fauci suggests it may be considerably less than 1% in late February before major actions were taken.  He is the CDC and a scientist.  These are the people the administration listens to.  When we say here listen to the scientists it sounds as though that has happened and their opinions keep changing.  The models do, too.

I think the bigger problems are that people don't understand science, and then misreport on what science says.

There is a difference between the "actual" mortality rate being less than 1%, and the reported US mortality rate being higher. The former is independent of anything, and is an intrinsic aspect of the disease. It assumes that proper healthcare is accessible, and the demographics of a nation follow normal distributions.

The latter is extremely dependent on testing. We are nowhere near accurate in the reported number of cases, or the total number of deaths.

I think you are well aware of this, but are intentionally ignoring these aspects to push your agenda. That is the biggest problem, people intentionally distort science to push political agendas. That simultaneously decreases peoples trust in science, and increases the lack of science literacy in our nation.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on April 12, 2020, 04:42:21 PM

We know. We get it. China lied. The doctors believed him. The administration acted as quickly as possible and couldn’t have handled it any better.

 ::)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 12, 2020, 04:44:22 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 04, 2020, 05:13:36 PM

In all honesty, both of them concern me because they would be in their mid-80s by the end of a second term. That said, I would take a good man in decline over the current occupant of the office.

And FWIW - if Biden or Bernie were elected and then lost it, I am confident they would have the grace to willingly hand the reins over to their VP.

The sexual assault allegations are coming out now and serve as the vehicle to remove him.  In my opinion some of these are coming from within the party as they want Biden out.  His mental acuity is troubling. This is how it will be done if I had to guess.  He will not make it to August.  He will be exposed in the debates and heavy scrutiny of a campaign.  Cannot hose him that long.  That will leave the party with a recruitment of Cuomo or Newsome, or maybe someone more moderate like Klobuchar. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 12, 2020, 04:54:45 PM

Govt is just trying to delay the inevitable rioting, looting, etc that will occur. The world is at its end. Good night and God bless.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HutchwasClutch on April 12, 2020, 04:59:18 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 12, 2020, 04:54:45 PM

The world is at its end. Good night

🙄

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 12, 2020, 05:13:23 PM

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on April 12, 2020, 04:59:18 PM

🙄

What makes you believe otherwise? Naive.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 12, 2020, 05:57:01 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 12, 2020, 03:52:40 PM

Here is what the argument will be to his supporters.  Fauci, a scientist, said Americans should not be worried in January. He was interviews this morning and confirmed. WHO, scientists and health officials, in January said this is animal to human only, not human to human. 

You keep mentioning January. Leaving out things said in Feb & early Mar. The CDC sounded the alarm bells on Feb 25, the prez didn't like their message, so imposed his will on them. See a few posts back.

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=59849.msg1231926#msg1231926

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 12, 2020, 05:57:52 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 12, 2020, 04:40:54 PM

I think the bigger problems are that people don't understand science, and then misreport on what science says.

There is a difference between the "actual" mortality rate being less than 1%, and the reported US mortality rate being higher. The former is independent of anything, and is an intrinsic aspect of the disease. It assumes that proper healthcare is accessible, and the demographics of a nation follow normal distributions.

The latter is extremely dependent on testing. We are nowhere near accurate in the reported number of cases, or the total number of deaths.

I think you are well aware of this, but are intentionally ignoring these aspects to push your agenda. That is the biggest problem, people intentionally distort science to push political agendas. That simultaneously decreases peoples trust in science, and increases the lack of science literacy in our nation.

I will agree we do not have actual numbers on the cases or deaths.  That said I would say the number of cases is far beyond the number of deaths we do not know and thus pushes the number down rather than up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 12, 2020, 05:58:36 PM

This is scary in and of itself (meat processors rife with virus or supply shock to the food chain).

However it stresses why we need the system Goooo has been advocating.  There is no ‘open’ or ‘closed’ choices. Plants across the country are facing versions of this (sick closures or absenteeism) when the virus spreads uncontrolled and untracked.

  https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/12/business/meat-plant-closures-smithfield/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/12/business/meat-plant-closures-smithfield/index.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 12, 2020, 06:13:12 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on April 12, 2020, 05:57:52 PM

I will agree we do not have actual numbers on the cases or deaths.  That said I would say the number of cases is far beyond the number of deaths we do not know and thus pushes the number down rather than up.

We are in agreement. The post I was replying to was highlighting how wrong Fauci was for saying the death rate might be below 1%. Highlighting that even the scientists got it wrong. But, Fauci was referring to the true mortality rate, if all cases and all deaths were known.

The original post was not understanding the science, and the data, and how they differ. I actually believe he did understand it, but was ignoring it to push an agenda.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 12, 2020, 06:59:22 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 12, 2020, 05:57:01 PM

the prez didn't like their message, so imposed his will on them.

No politics, hey?

What a disgrace.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 12, 2020, 07:02:24 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 12, 2020, 04:54:45 PM

Govt is just trying to delay the inevitable rioting, looting, etc that will occur. The world is at its end. Good night and God bless.

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/403f23bc6b2d1d505766184a581bb952/tenor.gif?itemid=8671465)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 12, 2020, 07:10:38 PM

Coronavirus Florida: The last human being I touched was exactly one month ago

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20200411/coronavirus-florida-last-human-being-i-touched-was-exactly-one-month-ago

Article in the Palm Beach Post from one of their writers, a Marquette grad.

I didn’t think much of it at the time, other than it might make a good Facebook picture and get some laughs online.

It was the night of Wednesday, March 11. I had flown from West Palm to New York City that day for the Big East Tournament to watch my alma mater, Marquette, for the four-day basketball extravaganza in front of sold-out crowds at Madison Square Garden.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 12, 2020, 07:28:52 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 12, 2020, 03:52:40 PM

His reaction is damning and often is because he wants to be in charge.  The question whether anything should have been done sooner based on the real information given to him is the actual question. 

Here is what the argument will be to his supporters.  Fauci, a scientist, said Americans should not be worried in January. He was interviews this morning and confirmed. WHO, scientists and health officials, in January said this is animal to human only, not human to human. 

On March 1st the US had one death.  By the time the US shut down travel to China, a position opposed by significantly powerful voices at the time, other powerful nations had not done so.  They have scientists and spies, too.  The Navarro memo said a huge number could die, it also said the number could be zero.  It wasn’t a range of 100k to 500k, but nothing to a high number.  The worst kind of advice because it is so extreme.

My son sent this to me today, this is exactly the playbook he will run.  Sharing this to illustrate how that side will argue their case.

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1249372642454515712?s=21

Just make sure you forget to mention that all he had to go on was the Chinese data which was at best unreliable - at worst, a coverup. I suppose he could have talked to our people in China who were there solely to investigate possible pandemics ... oh wait, Trump fired them all.

Fauci has followed the data right from the start. As data increased and evolved, so did his recommendations.


I understand the right is trying to deflect blame from our utterly incompetent leaders, but most people know better. I mean we still have people on this board who say "everyone who wants a test can get a test".
Admittedly, it's guys like ziggy and rocket brain, which says a lot, but they are part of the "I take no responsibility at all" cabal. My guess is that you are part of that group as well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Eldon on April 12, 2020, 08:00:40 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 12, 2020, 04:40:54 PM

I think the bigger problems are that people don't understand science, and then misreport on what science says.

There is a difference between the "actual" mortality rate being less than 1%, and the reported US mortality rate being higher. The former is independent of anything, and is an intrinsic aspect of the disease. It assumes that proper healthcare is accessible, and the demographics of a nation follow normal distributions.

The latter is extremely dependent on testing. We are nowhere near accurate in the reported number of cases, or the total number of deaths.

I think you are well aware of this, but are intentionally ignoring these aspects to push your agenda. That is the biggest problem, people intentionally distort science to push political agendas. That simultaneously decreases peoples trust in science, and increases the lack of science literacy in our nation.

Forecasting mortality rates is a science?  News to me.

Epidemiology is an inexact science, not all that different than weather forecasting--or, dare I say it, economic forecasting. 

Scientists, and those who posture as one, should learn some humility.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Johnny B on April 12, 2020, 08:04:27 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 12, 2020, 04:13:34 PM

COVID-19 board is a child of the superbar, which is it's parent board, which naturally must be similar to the Komodo dragon - it can have virgin births.

Makes sense to me

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on April 12, 2020, 08:27:06 PM

Wonder what Chicos thinks about all of this. All quarantined up in California. Sitting on the porch, washing his manly F-150 and watering his lawn.

Definitely not on Scoop at all with all this free time.

Does he name drop to the children or the dog? Send texts to Peyton and Eli?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on April 12, 2020, 08:37:58 PM

   i don't know if this has been posted anywhere yet as i can't read everyone of the past posts, but super interesting in the type of progress they are making into how the virus interacts with our cells- there are some whom are more predisposed than others-why?  they are researching the interactions of the virus particle and it's binding to the ACE-2 protein on cell membranes to enter our cells.  it appears to be where the illness process begins-if they could find something to block this interaction...?



https://www.drugtargetreview.com/news/56895/scientists-demonstrate-how-covid-19-infects-human-cells/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 12, 2020, 08:58:04 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 12, 2020, 06:13:12 PM

We are in agreement. The post I was replying to was highlighting how wrong Fauci was for saying the death rate might be below 1%. Highlighting that even the scientists got it wrong. But, Fauci was referring to the true mortality rate, if all cases and all deaths were known.

The original post was not understanding the science, and the data, and how they differ. I actually believe he did understand it, but was ignoring it to push an agenda.

As of right now, the dashboard at Johns Hopkins suggests the death rate in Germany from Covid is 2%. Serology tests from the town of Gangelt (hit particularly hard) indicate a morbidity rate of .37%. I understand that the death rate will vary based on who is infected and how effectively the infected are treated, but assuming a rate of .37% could be lowered significantly by quarantining our most vulnerable (I think 25% of the deaths in New York have been in nursing homes) could a plan to create herd immunity end up being our safest path?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on April 12, 2020, 09:22:25 PM

Quote from: Retire0 on April 12, 2020, 08:27:06 PM

Wonder what Chicos thinks about all of this. All quarantined up in California. Sitting on the porch, washing his manly F-150 and watering his lawn.

Definitely not on Scoop at all with all this free time.

Does he name drop to the children or the dog? Send texts to Peyton and Eli?

Social distancing beer summits in the back yard with rain check tickets for Warriordad and billyhoyle.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on April 12, 2020, 09:57:15 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 12, 2020, 04:44:22 PM

  His mental acuity is troubling. This is how it will be done if I had to guess.  He will not make it to August.  He will be exposed in the debates and heavy scrutiny of a campaign.  Cannot hose him that long. 

Considering you guys equate Ronnie with Abe Lincoln, and the Gipper is the poster boy for dementia, it would seem to me that you would love having another leader who is suffering a decline in mental functioning.
But no matter how badly Bidden ages in the next year, I doubt he will be spending next Easter Sunday watching cable news and tweeting about comparisons between Chris Wallace and Chuck Todd.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 12, 2020, 11:15:57 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 12, 2020, 08:37:58 PM

   i don't know if this has been posted anywhere yet as i can't read everyone of the past posts, but super interesting in the type of progress they are making into how the virus interacts with our cells- there are some whom are more predisposed than others-why?  they are researching the interactions of the virus particle and it's binding to the ACE-2 protein on cell membranes to enter our cells.  it appears to be where the illness process begins-if they could find something to block this interaction...?



https://www.drugtargetreview.com/news/56895/scientists-demonstrate-how-covid-19-infects-human-cells/

There are a ton of labs working on targeting this directly. Both with existing FDA approved drugs, and new therapeutics.

I didn't post this paper, but it was what I was referencing a long ways back in this thread, when I commented on scientists around the world being really on top of this. Lots of data being shared openly in ways I've never seen before, from all parts of the globe.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 12, 2020, 11:32:03 PM

https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/2020/04/12/coronavirus-nick-cordero-tony-nominated-broadway-actor-icu/2979407001/

Wonder how many cases are out there like this. He tested negative twice, before finally being confirmed to have COVID.

Are we getting false negatives? If so, that complicates opening things up.

To answer my own question, apparently our best tests lead to at least 10% false negatives, and because we have so many different tests out there, some are worse than others.

Apparently, clinical diagnoses, right now are more accurate, and some patients have to be tested up to 4 times to finally get a positive confirmation.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 12, 2020, 11:43:02 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 12, 2020, 11:32:03 PM

https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/2020/04/12/coronavirus-nick-cordero-tony-nominated-broadway-actor-icu/2979407001/

Wonder how many cases are out there like this. He tested negative twice, before finally being confirmed to have COVID.

Are we getting false negatives? If so, that complicates opening things up.

To answer my own question, apparently our best tests lead to at least 10% false negatives, and because we have so many different tests out there, some are worse than others.

Apparently, clinical diagnoses, right now are more accurate, and some patients have to be tested up to 4 times to finally get a positive confirmation.

That is one of the concerns I have with CDC taking the back seat and letting the testing be so decentralized. I get that the CDC initially messed up and independent labs had to fill the void for the initial crisis. But CDC still should have taken another go at it and developed a single standardized test to take over. Instead, the independent labs are still running their own in-house developed tests, likely with varying degrees of accuracy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 13, 2020, 12:10:03 AM

And here is another reason why CDC needs in front of this fight, instead of standing behind state and local public health officials:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/us/coronavirus-biogen-boston-superspreader.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

Executives from Biogen spread COVID at a March conference in Boston. When the MA Department of Public Health tried to trace the contacts, they were only able to find those in MA. According to the article:

The official count of those sickened— 99, including employees and their contacts, according to the Massachusetts Department of Public Health — includes only those who live in that state. The true number across the United States is certainly higher.

In other words, state or local contact tracing is inherently limited. If CDC was coordinating this, they would almost certainly have a more accurate count (and ideally, might even have had the resource to limit the spread).

Keeping the CDC on the sidelines is killing people.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 13, 2020, 12:35:13 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 13, 2020, 12:10:03 AM

And here is another reason why CDC needs in front of this fight, instead of standing behind state and local public health officials:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/us/coronavirus-biogen-boston-superspreader.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

Executives from Biogen spread COVID at a March conference in Boston. When the MA Department of Public Health tried to trace the contacts, they were only able to find those in MA. According to the article:

The official count of those sickened— 99, including employees and their contacts, according to the Massachusetts Department of Public Health — includes only those who live in that state. The true number across the United States is certainly higher.

In other words, state or local contact tracing is inherently limited. If CDC was coordinating this, they would almost certainly have a more accurate count (and ideally, might even have had the resource to limit the spread).

Keeping the CDC on the sidelines is killing people.

Honestly, this is all maddening. These are simple things. This is part of what the CDC is designed to do.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 13, 2020, 12:48:02 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 12, 2020, 08:58:04 PM

As of right now, the dashboard at Johns Hopkins suggests the death rate in Germany from Covid is 2%. Serology tests from the town of Gangelt (hit particularly hard) indicate a morbidity rate of .37%. I understand that the death rate will vary based on who is infected and how effectively the infected are treated, but assuming a rate of .37% could be lowered significantly by quarantining our most vulnerable (I think 25% of the deaths in New York have been in nursing homes) could a plan to create herd immunity end up being our safest path?

This isn't meant as an argument, Lenny. But those numbers don't tell us anything.

We have no idea what the death rate is - here or anywhere. Here for example, we have tested well under 1% of the population. Most patients who have symptoms and call their doctor are told to quarantine at home. The 2% rate is mostly based on very sick patients. A decent percentage of people with Covid show no symptoms - so they, too are not tested.


We simply don't know what percentage of the population has caught it and, of those, what percentage have died.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on April 13, 2020, 06:48:19 AM

Quote from: forgetful on April 12, 2020, 11:32:03 PM

https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/2020/04/12/coronavirus-nick-cordero-tony-nominated-broadway-actor-icu/2979407001/

Wonder how many cases are out there like this. He tested negative twice, before finally being confirmed to have COVID.

Are we getting false negatives? If so, that complicates opening things up.

To answer my own question, apparently our best tests lead to at least 10% false negatives, and because we have so many different tests out there, some are worse than others.

Apparently, clinical diagnoses, right now are more accurate, and some patients have to be tested up to 4 times to finally get a positive confirmation.

There are a lot of false negatives, my wife's hospital has had at least 15% of the patients who were clinically and/or eventually confirmed by testing present a false negative at least once. The main driver seems to be the collection method, you have to jam a swab up the nose and swirl it around for 15 seconds to get a viable sample.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on April 13, 2020, 07:09:55 AM

My mom’s best friend was first tested on Monday. She had an “inconclusive” result on Wednesday. She demanded to be get retested on Thursday, results came back yesterday that she was positive.

Six days to get a positive test result, yeah. The US is not ready to open back up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 13, 2020, 07:52:04 AM

Quote from: Retire0 on April 13, 2020, 07:09:55 AM

My mom’s best friend was first tested on Monday. She had an “inconclusive” result on Wednesday. She demanded to be get retested on Thursday, results came back yesterday that she was positive.

Six days to get a positive test result, yeah. The US is not ready to open back up.

But we are going to.  Hopefully mitigation plans will be in place.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 13, 2020, 08:03:17 AM

“California and the Bay Area response is impressive because it was done before there were obvious and tangible risks,” said Dr. Robert Wachter at the University of California, San Francisco.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 13, 2020, 09:11:52 AM

So, this is a 100% true story -

MLB made a "donation" to a major research university in exchange for thousands of Coronavirus antibody POC tests. 99% sensitivity, instant results. They have distributed these to every team. I know that at least the Braves received 300 of these tests. Initially, the tests were to be used on players/staff and given at the discretion of the team physicians. However, many of the owners are telling the team docs that they want them for personal use. In the case of the Braves, the team doc was to use 190+ on family/friends of the owner.

This is another sad example of our society not prioritizing need.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 13, 2020, 09:23:11 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 13, 2020, 09:11:52 AM

So, this is a 100% true story -

MLB made a "donation" to a major research university in exchange for thousands of Coronavirus antibody POC tests. 99% sensitivity, instant results. They have distributed these to every team. I know that at least the Braves received 300 of these tests. Initially, the tests were to be used on players/staff and given at the discretion of the team physicians. However, many of the owners are telling the team docs that they want them for personal use. In the case of the Braves, the team doc was to use 190+ on family/friends of the owner.

This is another sad example of our society not prioritizing need.

And how do you know this?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 13, 2020, 09:26:56 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 13, 2020, 09:11:52 AM

So, this is a 100% true story -

MLB made a "donation" to a major research university in exchange for thousands of Coronavirus antibody POC tests. 99% sensitivity, instant results. They have distributed these to every team. I know that at least the Braves received 300 of these tests. Initially, the tests were to be used on players/staff and given at the discretion of the team physicians. However, many of the owners are telling the team docs that they want them for personal use. In the case of the Braves, the team doc was to use 190+ on family/friends of the owner.

This is another sad example of our society not prioritizing need.

It is an internet rumor without sourcing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 13, 2020, 09:40:18 AM

Quote from: tower912 on April 13, 2020, 09:26:56 AM

It is an internet rumor without sourcing.

Not if someone personally knows the Braves team doc.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 13, 2020, 10:05:50 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 13, 2020, 09:40:18 AM

Not if someone personally knows the Braves team doc.

Actually, just checked with my source in MLB and this story is somewhat true.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 13, 2020, 10:40:28 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 13, 2020, 10:05:50 AM

Actually, just checked with my source in MLB and this story is somewhat true.

 ;)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 13, 2020, 12:52:32 PM

8 reasons to end the Lockdown as soon as possible. Penned by doctors.  It would be eye opening to do a national survey of doctors and their opinions on this topic and break it out by geography.

Our leaders have some tough decisions ahead.  It is also why CDC cannot be put in charge of all this.  The decision is not only health based, but national security, economic, legal & constitutional.  CDC are not elected leaders.

Here are their 8 reasons.  I find myself supporting some of them, but not all.  The suicide element is of great concern.

https://medium.com/@jbgeach/eight-reasons-to-end-the-lockdowns-as-soon-as-possible-b7bb0bc94f00

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 13, 2020, 01:06:23 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 13, 2020, 12:52:32 PM

8 reasons to end the Lockdown as soon as possible. Penned by doctors.  It would be eye opening to do a national survey of doctors and their opinions on this topic and break it out by geography.

Our leaders have some tough decisions ahead.  It is also why CDC cannot be put in charge of all this.  The decision is not only health based, but national security, economic, legal & constitutional.  CDC are not elected leaders.

Here are their 8 reasons.  I find myself supporting some of them, but not all.  The suicide element is of great concern.

https://medium.com/@jbgeach/eight-reasons-to-end-the-lockdowns-as-soon-as-possible-b7bb0bc94f00

Nobody ever said CDC should be in charge of all of this. But CDC most definitely should be in charge of the testing and contact tracing...which is what it was created to do, and what it did in the H1N1 outbreak.

And if we (i.e. the elected leaders) don't let CDC do the job for which it is uniquely qualified, the elected leaders will be making decisions based on less accurate data about a crisis that is worse than it needs to be.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 13, 2020, 01:16:37 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 13, 2020, 09:11:52 AM

So, this is a 100% true story -

MLB made a "donation" to a major research university in exchange for thousands of Coronavirus antibody POC tests. 99% sensitivity, instant results. They have distributed these to every team. I know that at least the Braves received 300 of these tests. Initially, the tests were to be used on players/staff and given at the discretion of the team physicians. However, many of the owners are telling the team docs that they want them for personal use. In the case of the Braves, the team doc was to use 190+ on family/friends of the owner.

This is another sad example of our society not prioritizing need.

Maybe it's sad...or maybe it's really good.

If MLB just paid the cost of the tests, and essentially "skipped in line" ahead of less-wealthy people or people with higher-priority needs, then yes - if would be a sad example.

But if MLB's donation was big enough to pay the cost of the tests, plus enough extra to help advance the research university's research about COVID, I would argue it's a good thing.

The latter scenario happens all the time in nonprofits. A rich dude donates $5M to a research facility, and gets to the front of the line when he's sick. But the facility still has plenty of money to fund research labs, studies into new treatments, etc. Like I said, a good thing...for the rich dude, for the institution, and for all the people who might benefit from discoveries that otherwise might not be made.

IMHO - we'd need to know a lot more about the size of the donation and the cost of the tests to know if it's good or bad.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 13, 2020, 01:20:48 PM

https://www.info.lillycovid19testing.com/study

In Indianapolis, Lilly will begin testing asymptomatic individuals.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 13, 2020, 01:22:47 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 13, 2020, 01:16:37 PM

Maybe it's sad...or maybe it's really good.

If MLB just paid the cost of the tests, and essentially "skipped in line" ahead of less-wealthy people or people with higher-priority needs, then yes - if would be a sad example.

But if MLB's donation was big enough to pay the cost of the tests, plus enough extra to help advance the research university's research about COVID, I would argue it's a good thing.

The latter scenario happens all the time in nonprofits. A rich dude donates $5M to a research facility, and gets to the front of the line when he's sick. But the facility still has plenty of money to fund research labs, studies into new treatments, etc. Like I said, a good thing...for the rich dude, for the institution, and for all the people who might benefit from discoveries that otherwise might not be made.

IMHO - we'd need to know a lot more about the size of the donation and the cost of the tests to know if it's good or bad.

Ya. I understand that.

I just think when it's a pandemic that is also threatening the global economy, the testing needs to be prioritized to maximize tracing/treatment/return to work. I don't think Ted Turner's nephew's roommate is a priority in the grand scheme.

Again, because of the nature of the situation, to me, it's far different that your old guy scenario.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 13, 2020, 01:22:53 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 13, 2020, 12:52:32 PM

8 reasons to end the Lockdown as soon as possible. Penned by doctors.  It would be eye opening to do a national survey of doctors and their opinions on this topic and break it out by geography.

Our leaders have some tough decisions ahead.  It is also why CDC cannot be put in charge of all this.  The decision is not only health based, but national security, economic, legal & constitutional.  CDC are not elected leaders.

Here are their 8 reasons.  I find myself supporting some of them, but not all.  The suicide element is of great concern.

https://medium.com/@jbgeach/eight-reasons-to-end-the-lockdowns-as-soon-as-possible-b7bb0bc94f00

I don't necessary disagree with some of their points, but let's look at the background of these doctors shall we?

Dr. Jonathan B. Geach is an anesthesiologist in Loma Linda, California
Dr. Ankur J. Patel is a family medicine doctor in Oswego, Illinois
Dr. Jason Friday looks like he is a psychiatrist in Gilbert, AZ
Dr. Lacy M. Windham is an obstetrician-gynecologist in Cleveland, Tennessee
Dr. Ashkan Attaran is a cardiologist in Visalia, California
Jennifer Andjelich, D.N.P. isn't a doctor.  She is a nurse practitioner in psychiatry in Arizona

So no public health background that I can tell.  No epidemiologists.  Just random doctors of various backgrounds they got to sign onto an article.

Or am I missing something?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 13, 2020, 01:24:49 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 13, 2020, 01:22:53 PM

I don't necessary disagree with some of their points, but let's look at the background of these doctors shall we?

Dr. Jonathan B. Geach is an anesthesiologist in Loma Linda, California
Dr. Ankur J. Patel is a family medicine doctor in Oswego, Illinois
Dr. Jason Friday looks like he is a psychiatrist in Gilbert, AZ
Dr. Lacy M. Windham is an obstetrician-gynecologist in Cleveland, Tennessee
Dr. Ashkan Attaran is a cardiologist in Visalia, California
Jennifer Andjelich, D.N.P. isn't a doctor.  She is a nurse practitioner in psychiatry in Arizona

So no public health background that I can tell.  No epidemiologists.  Just random doctors of various backgrounds they got to sign onto an article.

Or am I missing something?

You aren't.

Chicos used to do something similar where he would "appeal to authority" that supported his POV. It didn't matter the credentials/standing of that authority.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 13, 2020, 01:33:14 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 13, 2020, 01:24:49 PM

You aren't.

Chicos used to do something similar where he would "appeal to authority" that supported his POV. It didn't matter the credentials/standing of that authority.

Right.  Per usual his "authority" simply means "someone with a title who agrees with me."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 13, 2020, 01:39:42 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 13, 2020, 01:24:49 PM

You aren't.

Chicos used to do something similar where he would "appeal to authority" that supported his POV. It didn't matter the credentials/standing of that authority.

(https://www.reactiongifs.com/r/pamyup.gif)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 13, 2020, 01:46:27 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 13, 2020, 01:22:47 PM

Ya. I understand that.

I just think when it's a pandemic that is also threatening the global economy, the testing needs to be prioritized to maximize tracing/treatment/return to work. I don't think Ted Turner's nephew's roommate is a priority in the grand scheme.

Again, because of the nature of the situation, to me, it's far different that your old guy scenario.

Definitely a different scenario, given the urgency. Still, if the money can be used for significant advances in the war on COVID, it could be really good. Maybe it gives them the capacity to triple their testing capacity within a few weeks, very soon far outweighing the couple thousand tests "sold" to the MLB. We just don't know.

Several weeks back - when the first tests were just being rolled out - Karl-Anthony Towns made a donation to Mayo Clinic that allowed Mayo to double its testing virtually overnight. I don't know what, if anything, KAT received from Mayo, but even it was just some priority tests, the public benefit would still far outweigh the personal benefit he received.

Anyhow, we agree that the calculus is different given the urgency around COVID. I still think we don't have enough info to know whether it's a good or bad thing in this specific case.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 13, 2020, 01:49:35 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 13, 2020, 01:22:53 PM

I don't necessary disagree with some of their points, but let's look at the background of these doctors shall we?

Dr. Jonathan B. Geach is an anesthesiologist in Loma Linda, California
Dr. Ankur J. Patel is a family medicine doctor in Oswego, Illinois
Dr. Jason Friday looks like he is a psychiatrist in Gilbert, AZ
Dr. Lacy M. Windham is an obstetrician-gynecologist in Cleveland, Tennessee
Dr. Ashkan Attaran is a cardiologist in Visalia, California
Jennifer Andjelich, D.N.P. isn't a doctor.  She is a nurse practitioner in psychiatry in Arizona

So no public health background that I can tell.  No epidemiologists.  Just random doctors of various backgrounds they got to sign onto an article.

Or am I missing something?

They don't work for big gubmint, so apparently they're more trustworthy to Chicos than the infectious disease experts and epidemiologists at CDC.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 13, 2020, 02:10:12 PM

What's a chicos?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Marquette Gyros on April 13, 2020, 02:19:45 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 13, 2020, 01:20:48 PM

https://www.info.lillycovid19testing.com/study

In Indianapolis, Lilly will begin testing asymptomatic individuals.

View from the cheap seats: how many pharmaceutical/biomed companies are pursuing their own angles on COVID testing?

If we’re going to take steps like invoking the Defense Production Act... encouraging some level of collaboration between pharma firms producing tests would be helpful, given how important testing is to emerging from this mess.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 13, 2020, 02:41:01 PM

You mean like coordinating supply chains  instead of having states compete?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 13, 2020, 02:50:12 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 13, 2020, 01:24:49 PM

You aren't.

Chicos used to do something similar where he would "appeal to authority" that supported his POV. It didn't matter the credentials/standing of that authority.

500 economists ...

That said, I'm getting a perverse thrill out of watching Cheeks pretend to be a liberal Democrat from the Midwest while regurgitating Fox News talking points. I hope it continues, because at least this Cheeks has left behind most of the other Cheeks' worst tendencies.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 13, 2020, 03:15:19 PM

Getting tested at Northshore right now. I can not believe the cluster f*ck this is. Absolutely livid right now. All I wanted was a damn Z pack for a sinus infection!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 13, 2020, 03:45:16 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on April 13, 2020, 02:50:12 PM

500 economists ...

That said, I'm getting a perverse thrill out of watching Cheeks pretend to be a liberal Democrat from the Midwest while regurgitating Fox News talking points. I hope it continues, because at least this Cheeks has left behind most of the other Cheeks' worst tendencies.

He tried for a while, but old habits can't be defeated.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on April 13, 2020, 05:20:32 PM

Really need the mass production of antibody tests.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 13, 2020, 06:37:20 PM

Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on April 13, 2020, 05:20:32 PM

Really need the mass production of antibody tests.

And rapid testing and PPEs and and and....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 13, 2020, 07:55:19 PM

This could be a big breakthrough on testing.

 https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/public-global-health/492623-fda-approves-first-saliva-based-coronavirus-test (https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/public-global-health/492623-fda-approves-first-saliva-based-coronavirus-test)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on April 13, 2020, 08:23:22 PM

https://twitter.com/rcallimachi/status/1249776929579958273?s=21


Not great, Bob.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 13, 2020, 08:38:55 PM

Quote from: Retire0 on April 13, 2020, 08:23:22 PM

https://twitter.com/rcallimachi/status/1249776929579958273?s=21


Not great, Bob.

So much failure.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Marquette Gyros on April 13, 2020, 08:51:37 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 13, 2020, 08:38:55 PM

So much failure.

What a unnatural carnal knowledgeing crapshow.

Here’s what I don’t understand: unless you’re desperate to be added to the tally, why even go to get tested?

Doesn’t everyone hear the same advice ie rest, relax, treat it like the flu and then go to the ER if it gets bad?

Why line up for a test the night before when you feel like dogcrap?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on April 13, 2020, 08:53:48 PM

this might just be a start, but the natives are getting restless-michigan's whitmer gonna feel the heat.  you can only push reasonable people so far

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/local/2020/04/13/people-are-fed-up-michigans-extended-stay-at-home-order-draws-criticism-protest/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Marquette Gyros on April 13, 2020, 08:54:58 PM

The initiative in the article below actually looks helpful:
https://www.foxnews.com/science/if-you-think-you-had-coronavirus-a-new-study-might-give-you-your-answer

Sent email tonight to try to enroll in the study.

Think I got through the worst of COVID on a work trip at the end of February... pretty excited to confirm so I can stop Clorox wiping my groceries after they get delivered.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on April 13, 2020, 08:59:49 PM

Ryan Padgett's story...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/13/us/coronavirus-doctor-kirkland-padgett.html#click=https://t.co/FAYa5RLsCQ

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on April 13, 2020, 09:39:56 PM

Quote from: Marquette Gyros on April 13, 2020, 08:54:58 PM

The initiative in the article below actually looks helpful:
https://www.foxnews.com/science/if-you-think-you-had-coronavirus-a-new-study-might-give-you-your-answer

Sent email tonight to try to enroll in the study.

Think I got through the worst of COVID on a work trip at the end of February... pretty excited to confirm so I can stop Clorox wiping my groceries after they get delivered.

 i'd like to volunteer as well. 

  my wife insists i am either immune to it or had a mild case some time ago.  despite what i do for a living, i am blessed with literally missing no work due to illness for ?? time.  no, i am not going to act like i'm invincible.  keep doing what i'm doing, take nothing for granted, try to eat right(more vegies/less carbs) exercise, keep up with check ups, no alcohol,  no smoking, and prayer, etc  i do believe in the pound of dirt thing. 

please keep us informed if you are chosen

stay safe and healthy   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on April 13, 2020, 09:42:25 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on April 13, 2020, 08:59:49 PM

Ryan Padgett's story...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/13/us/coronavirus-doctor-kirkland-padgett.html#click=https://t.co/FAYa5RLsCQ

oh chit!!  just saw this after my post below...all the more reason to take nothing for granted.  ya know the saying-Christ, unfortunately needs to be crucified every year for us to continue believe

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 13, 2020, 09:51:38 PM

Quote from: Marquette Gyros on April 13, 2020, 08:51:37 PM

What a unnatural carnal knowledgeing crapshow.

Here’s what I don’t understand: unless you’re desperate to be added to the tally, why even go to get tested?

Doesn’t everyone hear the same advice ie rest, relax, treat it like the flu and then go to the ER if it gets bad?

Why line up for a test the night before when you feel like dogcrap?

To not infect the others around you? Yes we're all social distancing but if I've got a sinus infection I'm still going to the grocery store and eating with my gf and family. If I'm positive I'm locking myself in my room and hoping by the grace of god they don't get it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 13, 2020, 10:14:21 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on April 13, 2020, 08:59:49 PM

Ryan Padgett's story...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/13/us/coronavirus-doctor-kirkland-padgett.html#click=https://t.co/FAYa5RLsCQ

His colleagues at the hospital put him on the anti-malarial drug hydroxychloroquine, whose effectiveness for the coronavirus is still unknown, but Dr. Padgett’s condition continued to worsen.

I guess here's one person who found out "what do you have to lose" by taking that drug. Almost his life.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 13, 2020, 10:34:49 PM

Quote from: Retire0 on April 13, 2020, 08:23:22 PM

https://twitter.com/rcallimachi/status/1249776929579958273?s=21


Not great, Bob.

Florida has an admitted backlog of 1400, but that is just the Dept of Health backlog, most testing is processed by private labs and they estimate the actual backlog may be 10x that number.

It is interesting that some local officials in Florida are urging people to be tested. Um, how exactly?????

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 13, 2020, 10:41:45 PM

While this should likely go elsewhere, I had to share. This is not from the Onion.

WWE deemed 'essential business' in Florida, will resume live shows

https://www.espn.com/wwe/story/_/id/29031903/wwe-deemed-essential-business-florida-mayor-says

WWE initially was not designated as essential and therefore was not exempt from the state's shelter-in-place order, which took effect April 3 and runs through at least April 30. That decision was reversed after "some conversation" with DeSantis' office, Demings said Monday during a news conference.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 13, 2020, 10:46:29 PM

Trump makes claim that he has dictatorial powers today.

Every American should be forced to watch the crazy man at today’s briefing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on April 13, 2020, 10:48:30 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 13, 2020, 10:46:29 PM

Trump makes claim that he has dictatorial powers today.

Every American should be forced to watch the crazy man at today’s briefing.

I've known he was crazy from th beginning so no reason for me to subject myself to the briefing, I mean campaign rally.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 13, 2020, 11:22:41 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on April 13, 2020, 09:51:38 PM

To not infect the others around you? Yes we're all social distancing but if I've got a sinus infection I'm still going to the grocery store and eating with my gf and family. If I'm positive I'm locking myself in my room and hoping by the grace of god they don't get it.

Yep. If I go from thinking I might have it to knowing I do have it, I would further separate myself from my wife and kids.

And I also feel a responsibility to society to do my tiny part to help make the stats as accurate as possible, so the epidemiologists can better fight the disease. Yeah, I know the stats are far from complete right now, but I would still want to do the right thing if tests are available and recommended for the symptoms I have.

We are all in this together.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 13, 2020, 11:29:23 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 13, 2020, 10:46:29 PM

Trump makes claim that he has dictatorial powers today.

Every American should be forced to watch the crazy man at today’s briefing.

And only a week after he claimed he didn’t have the authority to tell governors to close their states down.

The scary thing is that neither he nor many of his supporters seem to see the contradiction.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 13, 2020, 11:43:49 PM

Total authority - zero responsibility. What a gig!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: NorthernDancerColt on April 13, 2020, 11:53:21 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 08, 2020, 08:28:45 AM

From the NYT:

Corporate leaders are increasingly announcing donations or taking pay cuts to help respond to the pandemic — and, quite probably, to keep the political heat off.

Jack Dorsey plans to donate $1 billion of his holdings in Square, or a third of his net worth, to coronavirus relief programs. The L.L.C. he is founding with the money will track its expenditure publicly via this Google Doc. It was the single biggest gift announced by a business leader thus far, but only the latest in a growing list:

• Jeff Bezos and the foundations of Michael Dell and of Bill Gates have each pledged $100 million to causes like food banks and vaccine development efforts.
• Michael Bloomberg’s philanthropic organization is spending $40 million on rapid-response teams, with a focus on Africa.
• In the finance world, Leon Black of Apollo has pledged $20 million to provide New York City health care workers with food and supplies, while Ken Griffin and other executives at Citadel have promised $15 million for vaccines and treatments.

Other chiefs are taking pay cuts. A variety of industry figures — such as Oscar Munoz of United Airlines, Arne Sorenson of Marriott, Bob Iger of Disney and Jes Staley of Barclays — are forgoing part of their pay. As top executives learned during the 2008 financial crisis, continuing to earn big bucks while workers take salary cuts or furloughs is a sure way to draw harsh scrutiny.

It goes far beyond PR for WILLIAM GATES (the bad one). To the NYT, I suggest an expose featuring the works of RFK Jr. on Gates’ “Stategic Philanthropy”. What about the carnage his under-researched  polio vaccine did in India, leading to hundreds of thousands of Indian youth getting vaccine-strain paralysis? It’s amazing what you can get away with some charitable sleight of hand. The NYT should know better than trumpeting billionaire political access-seeking. Also, maybe research what BMGF gives annually to WHO for starters. Hint: less than USA but considerably more than China.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 14, 2020, 12:01:13 AM

Quote from: NorthernDancerColt on April 13, 2020, 11:53:21 PM

It goes far beyond PR for WILLIAM GATES (the bad one). To the NYT, I suggest an expose featuring the works of RFK Jr. on Gates’ “Stategic Philanthropy”. What about the carnage his under-researched  polio vaccine did in India, leading to hundreds of thousands of Indian youth getting vaccine-strain paralysis? It’s amazing what you can get away with some charitable sleight of hand. The NYT should know better than trumpeting billionaire political access-seeking. Also, maybe research what BMGF gives annually to WHO for starters. Hint: less than USA but considerably more than China.

Wrong thread, dude. Park this stuff in the conspiracy thread.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: NorthernDancerColt on April 14, 2020, 12:08:12 AM

Quote from: Jockey on April 14, 2020, 12:01:13 AM

Wrong thread, dude. Park this stuff in the conspiracy thread.

Stating that a donor expects access is NOT a conspiracy. I have met Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (great guy) and he would love to hear you dismiss big pharma’s ever-looming hand in health policy as “conspiracy”.

In this case it just happens to be Mr Gates with the convenient donations.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 14, 2020, 12:20:10 AM

Quote from: NorthernDancerColt on April 13, 2020, 11:53:21 PM

It goes far beyond PR for WILLIAM GATES (the bad one). To the NYT, I suggest an expose featuring the works of RFK Jr. on Gates’ “Stategic Philanthropy”. What about the carnage his under-researched  polio vaccine did in India, leading to hundreds of thousands of Indian youth getting vaccine-strain paralysis? It’s amazing what you can get away with some charitable sleight of hand. The NYT should know better than trumpeting billionaire political access-seeking. Also, maybe research what BMGF gives annually to WHO for starters. Hint: less than USA but considerably more than China.

Ok, I give up: who is the “bad” William Gates?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 14, 2020, 12:24:55 AM

Quote from: NorthernDancerColt on April 14, 2020, 12:08:12 AM

Stating that a donor expects access is NOT a conspiracy. I have met Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (great guy) and he would love to hear you dismiss big pharma’s ever-looming hand in health policy as “conspiracy”.

In this case it just happens to be Mr Gates with the convenient donations.

So you think an anti-vaxxer is a great guy. Of course.

And you can't be a legit right-winger these days if you don't attack Bill Gates.

Like I said, post in the conspiracy thread.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 14, 2020, 12:26:42 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 14, 2020, 12:20:10 AM

Ok, I give up: who is the “bad” William Gates?

He's so confused that he's now attacking former MU players. :-\

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: NorthernDancerColt on April 14, 2020, 12:35:40 AM

Quote from: Jockey on April 14, 2020, 12:24:55 AM

So you think an anti-vaxxer is a great guy. Of course.

And you can't be a legit right-winger these days if you don't attack Bill Gates.

Like I said, post in the conspiracy thread.

Keep framing everything as left-right. It serves you well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 14, 2020, 12:36:43 AM

Quote from: Jockey on April 14, 2020, 12:26:42 AM

He's so confused that he's now attacking former MU players. :-\

Yeah, that’s the only guy I know who goes by William Gates.

If he’s referring to the guy who everyone else on earth refers to as Bill Gates, his notions of “good” and “bad” seem kinda bassackwards. I harbor no illusions that he is a saint, but Bill Gates has done FAR more good than bad in his lifetime.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: NorthernDancerColt on April 14, 2020, 12:46:35 AM

Quote from: Jockey on April 14, 2020, 12:24:55 AM

So you think an anti-vaxxer is a great guy. Of course.

And you can't be a legit right-winger these days if you don't attack Bill Gates.

Like I said, post in the conspiracy thread.

It must be really constraining to live in your world. Just sweep me in with being against all vaccines bc I am calling into question rushing to full-on policy support of immediate mass vaccination when there are all sorts of issues with antibodies and the different constructs of the elderly vs child immune system. Fauci himself has done the good deed of pointing out a need for this cautious approach. He also unfortunately was the first government official to sign off on indemnity for eventual providers of the vaccine....and if I remember correctly....in addition to being banned permanently from Indian soil....Gates is still dealing with lawsuits in India stemming from adolescent and child mass deformities in connection with faulty polio vaccines which strengthened rather than weakened polio strains.

These things are complex. But your world is simple. I don’t claim to have the answers. Glad you do.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 14, 2020, 01:06:02 AM

Quote from: NorthernDancerColt on April 14, 2020, 12:46:35 AM

...Gates is still dealing with lawsuits in India stemming from adolescent and child mass deformities in connection with faulty polio vaccines which strengthened rather than weakened polio strains.

Source?  Maybe you're internetting too much...
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bill-gates-india-sued/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 14, 2020, 01:06:56 AM

Quote from: NorthernDancerColt on April 14, 2020, 12:46:35 AM

It must be really constraining to live in your world. Just sweep me in with being against all vaccines bc I am calling into question rushing to full-on policy support of immediate mass vaccination when there are all sorts of issues with antibodies and the different constructs of the elderly vs child immune system. Fauci himself has done the good deed of pointing out a need for this cautious approach. He also unfortunately was the first government official to sign off on indemnity for eventual providers of the vaccine....and if I remember correctly....in addition to being banned permanently from Indian soil....Gates is still dealing with lawsuits in India stemming from adolescent and child mass deformities in connection with faulty polio vaccines which strengthened rather than weakened polio strains.

These things are complex. But your world is simple. I don’t claim to have the answers. Glad you do.

No you don’t have the answers, but you claimed “William” Gates is “bad” based on made-up news stories. You have been infected by the infodemic.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bill-gates-india-sued/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: NorthernDancerColt on April 14, 2020, 01:24:39 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 14, 2020, 01:06:02 AM

Source?  Maybe you're internetting too much...
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bill-gates-india-sued/

Completely different issue. I was referring to issues with polio vaccination, the numbers were much greater than 70,000+ and I admit that I “internetted” and got the good info from an RFK Jr. tweet. The bad info was also “internetted.” GAC. Apparently Gates was summarily dismissed from an Advocacy Board in India after a huge vaccine-strain polio outbreak.

Thanks for the Snopes face-plant.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: NorthernDancerColt on April 14, 2020, 01:29:45 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 14, 2020, 01:06:56 AM

No you don’t have the answers, but you claimed “William” Gates is “bad” based on made-up news stories. You have been infected by the infodemic.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bill-gates-india-sued/

OK you win. Robert F. Kennedy, Jr, an attorney/researcher and privy to multiple historical contacts in US Health Policy is clearly dumber than you and “infodemically infected”. I will take my “infodemic” vaccine when you get treated for your TDS.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on April 14, 2020, 02:38:28 AM

Quote from: Jockey on April 14, 2020, 12:01:13 AM

Wrong thread, dude. Park this stuff in the conspiracy thread.

How you get away with as much blatant in your face politics is beyond...wait...never mind. This overblown crisis is exactly what you liberals needed to try to blow this wide open. So much pent up derangement Being allowed here and I’ m getting dumber by the minute reading it

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on April 14, 2020, 03:00:24 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 14, 2020, 02:38:28 AM

How you get away with as much blatant in your face politics is beyond...wait...never mind. This overblown crisis is exactly what you liberals needed to try to blow this wide open. So much pent up derangement Being allowed here and I’ m getting dumber by the minute reading it

Overblown crisis?

Not sure there’s room left for you to get any dumber.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 14, 2020, 05:35:14 AM

Looks like Russia and Turkey are the next ones grappling with this.  This article is about Russia.

 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/13/world/europe/coronavirus-russia-putin.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/13/world/europe/coronavirus-russia-putin.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HutchwasClutch on April 14, 2020, 06:57:24 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 14, 2020, 02:38:28 AM

How you get away with as much blatant in your face politics is beyond...wait...never mind. This overblown crisis is exactly what you liberals needed to try to blow this wide open. So much pent up derangement Being allowed here and I’ m getting dumber by the minute reading it

The Covid-19 board quickly became a joke and opportunity for the leftists here to have a free for all to bash Trump at every turn. 

And the mods do nothing. This after banning a political board and the Superbar still having a banner about taking your politics elsewhere.  And I wholeheartedly agree that was the right decision to ban politics here.  There are a zillion other places online to discuss politics and rant on endlessly. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 14, 2020, 07:31:01 AM

Or, make the case that the federal response was timely and appropriate.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 14, 2020, 07:36:11 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 13, 2020, 09:39:56 PM

  my wife insists i am either immune to it or had a mild case some time ago. 

Based on what exactly?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 14, 2020, 07:39:08 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 14, 2020, 02:38:28 AM

How you get away with as much blatant in your face politics is beyond...wait...never mind. This overblown crisis is exactly what you liberals needed to try to blow this wide open. So much pent up derangement Being allowed here and I’ m getting dumber by the minute reading it

Ah.  I see you've fallen for the gaslighting.  I'm not surprised.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 14, 2020, 07:39:39 AM

Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on April 14, 2020, 03:00:24 AM

Overblown crisis?

Not sure there’s room left for you to get any dumber.

If you need to know what the latest Fox talking point is, he's your man. Pure uncritical regurgitation.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 14, 2020, 07:41:44 AM

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on April 14, 2020, 06:57:24 AM

The Covid-19 board quickly became a joke and opportunity for the leftists here to have a free for all to bash Trump at every turn. 

And the mods do nothing. This after banning a political board and the Superbar still having a banner about taking your politics elsewhere.  And I wholeheartedly agree that was the right decision to ban politics here.  There are a zillion other places online to discuss politics and rant on endlessly. 

I do agree that people have gone way too political here.  People like Jockey can't seem to help themselves.

But I think it is fully on topic here to address how the administration handled, and is currently handling this.  Hint: It's bad, inconsistent, poorly communicated, and geared toward deflecting blame.  Those are basic facts, not political opinion.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 14, 2020, 07:51:59 AM

Quote from: Jockey on April 13, 2020, 10:46:29 PM

Trump makes claim that he has dictatorial powers today.

Every American should be forced to watch the crazy man at today’s briefing.

I've been socially & physically distancing myself from anything he says or has said since 2016.
Unfortunately, I still hear things despite trying not to.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 14, 2020, 07:55:59 AM

Quote from: NorthernDancerColt on April 14, 2020, 01:24:39 AM

Completely different issue. I was referring to issues with polio vaccination, the numbers were much greater than 70,000+ and I admit that I “internetted” and got the good info from an RFK Jr. tweet. The bad info was also “internetted.” GAC. Apparently Gates was summarily dismissed from an Advocacy Board in India after a huge vaccine-strain polio outbreak.

Thanks for the Snopes face-plant.

In addition to not being sued, he is also not kicked out of the country
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/gates-org-kicked-out-of-india/

Maybe you have different information, but as far as I can find, the only issues with polio vaccine in India relate to a local Indian company that produced an oral version of the vaccine, where the MD was arrested for poor quality control.
https://qz.com/india/1413018/polio-scare-resurfaces-in-india-who-calms-nerves/
"A private pharmaceutical company reportedly reintroduced the virus in at least 150,000 vials of its oral vaccine, which were then administered to children in the states of Uttar Pradesh, Maharashtra, and Telangana.

The oral method, however, contains live, but less virulent, strains of the virus and can result in vaccine-induced polio. However, it is extremely rare—about one in 750,000 cases.

After the type-2 strain was found in Uttar Pradesh, the virus was traced to the Ghaziabad-based pharmaceutical firm Bio-Med. Its managing director was arrested and further production was halted. "

I also could find zero evidence for tens of thousands of deaths or hundreds of thousands of deaths from vaccinations, and one would think numbers of that magnitude might have gotten a little press.  I found an instance where 124 people died in 2011, but that was about it.  I did, however, find another instance of anti-vaxxers spreading similar false rumors
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2016/dec/20/blog-posting/anti-vaccination-blog-revives-debunked-hpv-story/

RFK might very well be a great guy, but I think you've been fed some bad information.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 14, 2020, 08:04:13 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 14, 2020, 02:38:28 AM

This overblown crisis is exactly what you liberals needed to try to blow this wide open.

The Force is strong with this one.

If The Force = Hannity and Limbaugh.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 14, 2020, 08:04:22 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 14, 2020, 07:55:59 AM

In addition to not being sued, he is also not kicked out of the country
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/gates-org-kicked-out-of-india/

Maybe you have different information, but as far as I can find, the only issues with polio vaccine in India relate to a local Indian company that produced an oral version of the vaccine, where the MD was arrested for poor quality control.
https://qz.com/india/1413018/polio-scare-resurfaces-in-india-who-calms-nerves/
"A private pharmaceutical company reportedly reintroduced the virus in at least 150,000 vials of its oral vaccine, which were then administered to children in the states of Uttar Pradesh, Maharashtra, and Telangana.

The oral method, however, contains live, but less virulent, strains of the virus and can result in vaccine-induced polio. However, it is extremely rare—about one in 750,000 cases.

After the type-2 strain was found in Uttar Pradesh, the virus was traced to the Ghaziabad-based pharmaceutical firm Bio-Med. Its managing director was arrested and further production was halted. "

Good post.

It's really only 50/50 that his tinfoil hat will let him access it however.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 14, 2020, 08:10:45 AM

Just up from The Atlantic from one of their better known writers.

---

This Is How It Looks When You’re Not Afraid
Anthony Fauci is the rare senior government official who seems more devoted to truth than to Trump.

APRIL 13, 2020

James Fallows
National correspondent at The Atlantic

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/04/fauci-trump/609916/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 14, 2020, 08:11:52 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 14, 2020, 07:39:39 AM

If you need to know what the latest Fox OAN talking point is, he's your man. Pure uncritical regurgitation.

FIFY

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 14, 2020, 08:36:04 AM

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on April 14, 2020, 06:57:24 AM

The Covid-19 board quickly became a joke and opportunity for the leftists here to have a free for all to bash Trump at every turn. 

And the mods do nothing. This after banning a political board and the Superbar still having a banner about taking your politics elsewhere.  And I wholeheartedly agree that was the right decision to ban politics here.  There are a zillion other places online to discuss politics and rant on endlessly.

Then stop ranting about politics and explain why the CDC hasn't been leading the testing process and developing contact tracing mechanisms from the start. Include mention of the fact that CDC was created especially for pandemic management and filled this role in the H1N1 outbreak, but has now been moved to the backseat by a president who seems intent on letting states try to make up for his slow start.

Give us some substance if you think there is too much political fighting.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on April 14, 2020, 08:43:05 AM

Quote from: NorthernDancerColt on April 14, 2020, 01:24:39 AM

Completely different issue. I was referring to issues with polio vaccination, the numbers were much greater than 70,000+ and I admit that I “internetted” and got the good info from an RFK Jr. tweet. The bad info was also “internetted.” GAC. Apparently Gates was summarily dismissed from an Advocacy Board in India after a huge vaccine-strain polio outbreak.

Thanks for the Snopes face-plant.

bro,

bro.

That guy's... uh... not the best source for information about vaccines.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 14, 2020, 08:49:39 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 14, 2020, 08:36:04 AM

Then stop ranting about politics and explain why the CDC hasn't been leading the testing process and developing contact tracing mechanisms from the start. Include mention of the fact that CDC was created especially for pandemic management and filled this role in the H1N1 outbreak, but has now been moved to the backseat by a president who seems intent on letting states try to make up for his slow start.

Give us some substance if you think there is too much political fighting.

This question, and others like them, have been repeatedly asked and ignored in this topic.  I wouldn't expect a response to this one either.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 14, 2020, 08:51:06 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 14, 2020, 08:36:04 AM

Then stop ranting about politics and explain why the CDC hasn't been leading the testing process and developing contact tracing mechanisms from the start. Include mention of the fact that CDC was created especially for pandemic management and filled this role in the H1N1 outbreak, but has now been moved to the backseat by a president who seems intent on letting states try to make up for his slow start.

Give us some substance if you think there is too much political fighting.

That's the thing, if they're out pointing fingers at the liberals on the board, they don't have to objectively look what is happening or accept that just MAYBE the Emperor has no clothes.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 14, 2020, 08:53:50 AM

  Again, if you feel that one political argument is overrepresented, make the case with facts and data that the federal response has been timely, appropriate, efficient, and effective.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 14, 2020, 09:09:33 AM

Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on April 14, 2020, 03:00:24 AM

Overblown crisis?

Not sure there’s room left for you to get any dumber.

And who could have ever have predicted this would become a right-wing talking point? Oh wait...

Quote from: muguru on March 25, 2020, 09:59:26 PM

I mean...last i saw there has been less than 1,000 deaths in the US. Percentage wise, that is incredibly low..like minuscule. yet people are acting like the entire population is dying off from this. It's all about agenda's, that's all it really is.

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 26, 2020, 05:16:29 AM

Ah.

So you're one of those who won't think this is a big deal until millions are dead.

But at the same time the steps being taken are to prevent exactly those types of numbers. So that when millions don't die, you'll think it was all an overreaction

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 26, 2020, 08:19:40 AM

I am absolutely convinced that this is what will happen. "See?  What was the big deal?  I told you it was all a hoax", completely ignoring that the social distancing and stay-at-home orders are what kept the numbers lower.  Wait for it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 14, 2020, 09:35:07 AM

Things are getting dicey in Russia after Putin & Co. had spent weeks bragging about the country's preparedness and lack of infections.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/13/world/europe/coronavirus-russia-putin.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_NN_p_20200414&instance_id=17621&nl=morning-briefing&regi_id=108420427&section=topNews&segment_id=25091&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

So confident was the Kremlin that it dispatched planeloads of aid to Italy, Serbia and even Kennedy Airport in New York, signaling that Russia had stockpiled so many masks and ventilators that it was able to share some of them with less fortunate countries.

But it has become clear in recent days that Russia is unlikely to escape a severe hit by the pandemic, presenting an existential test to the country’s teetering health system and a new challenge to the aura of rising confidence and competence projected by Mr. Putin’s Kremlin.

“We have a lot of problems, and we don’t have much to brag about, nor reason to, and we certainly can’t relax,” Mr. Putin told senior officials Monday in a televised video conference. “We are not past the peak of the epidemic, not even in Moscow.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 14, 2020, 09:37:11 AM

If Putin is publically stating those problems, you gotta know they are much, much worse in actuality.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 14, 2020, 09:39:38 AM

Pakuni

You are right, I would be pretending to be a liberal Democrat because I am a moderate Democrat and not particularly partisan.  We talked about this here several times a year or two ago and the young liberal guys could not process.  I own a gun, am pro life, believe in strong borders and the working class.  In my formative days that was the Democratic Party.  Both parties have shifted leaving a gaping hole in the middle crying for leadership.  Cannot think of a better point in time in my life than now for someone to fill it.  This crisis calls for that type of response.

For the youngsters here, this was 1972 platform, the first election I voted in.  You can understand that those of us that grew up in that time period and adhere to those philosophies may not fit today’s version of the party. It is one reason my wife is now an independent.  What is tragic in this country is the perceived bullying by both sides to adhere strongly to the far side of each ideology.  It doesn’t have to be.  For the older members here, some of you have changed with your party and some of us have not.  Leave the name calling out of it.

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/428559-1972-campaign-reveals-how-much-modern-democrats-have-changed

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 14, 2020, 09:59:18 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 13, 2020, 01:22:53 PM

I don't necessary disagree with some of their points, but let's look at the background of these doctors shall we?

Dr. Jonathan B. Geach is an anesthesiologist in Loma Linda, California
Dr. Ankur J. Patel is a family medicine doctor in Oswego, Illinois
Dr. Jason Friday looks like he is a psychiatrist in Gilbert, AZ
Dr. Lacy M. Windham is an obstetrician-gynecologist in Cleveland, Tennessee
Dr. Ashkan Attaran is a cardiologist in Visalia, California
Jennifer Andjelich, D.N.P. isn't a doctor.  She is a nurse practitioner in psychiatry in Arizona

So no public health background that I can tell.  No epidemiologists.  Just random doctors of various backgrounds they got to sign onto an article.

Or am I missing something?

It was for discussion here.  I find myself supporting some of their views, not all.  We are in agreement on their backgrounds and that is why it would b fascinating to me to do a national survey of doctors on this topic.  Doctors in NYC may have very different opinions than those in Lincoln, NE despite similar educational backgrounds. 

My reason for bringing it here is not all of the medical community is in harmony on what to do next.  There are valid arguments on all sides.  I should have known it would lead to the name calling, but I had hope it would be discussed rather than what it devolved into.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 14, 2020, 10:03:56 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 14, 2020, 09:39:38 AM

Pakuni

You are right, I would be pretending to be a liberal Democrat because I am a moderate Democrat and not particularly partisan.  We talked about this here several times a year or two ago and the young liberal guys could not process.  I own a gun, am pro life, believe in strong borders and the working class.  In my formative days that was the Democratic Party.  Both parties have shifted leaving a gaping hole in the middle crying for leadership.  Cannot think of a better point in time in my life than now for someone to fill it.  This crisis calls for that type of response.

For the youngsters here, this was 1972 platform, the first election I voted in.  You can understand that those of us that grew up in that time period and adhere to those philosophies may not fit today’s version of the party. It is one reason my wife is now an independent.  What is tragic in this country is the perceived bullying by both sides to adhere strongly to the far side of each ideology.  It doesn’t have to be.  For the older members here, some of you have changed with your party and some of us have not.  Leave the name calling out of it.

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/428559-1972-campaign-reveals-how-much-modern-democrats-have-changed

If the point of that piece was to show how "far left" the Democratic party has moved in 48(!) years, it does a horrible, horrible job. In almost every case it shows the platform addressed similar concerns in similar ways as today. Taxes, Social Security, energy, minimum wage, the list goes on and on. It *tries*, very badly, to parse differences.  For example:

"Although the plan was more left leaning on labor issues and education issues, it would not have satisfied the most ardent proponents of the Green New Deal. While there was a call for a vastly higher minimum wage almost exactly equivalent to $15 adjusted for inflation and a promise to provide a guaranteed government job for everyone, it made no mention of the tuition free college for the upper middle class championed by the likes of liberal New York Governor Andrew Cuomo."

So the platform called for the equivalent of a $15/hr minimum wage and government guaranteed jobs for all, but because it didn't mention free college tuition it proves how far left the Democratic party platform has shifted? Tell me, might college tuition not been much of a concern when in constant dollars the median average cost, all in, for a public university was $8,734? And the necessity of a college education was much, much lower for career success?
https://college-education.procon.org/median-incomes-v-average-college-tuition-rates/

Never stop, Chicos.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 14, 2020, 10:08:34 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 14, 2020, 09:59:18 AM

It was for discussion here.  I find myself supporting some of their views, not all.  We are in agreement on their backgrounds and that is why it would b fascinating to me to do a national survey of doctors on this topic.  Doctors in NYC may have very different opinions than those in Lincoln, NE despite similar educational backgrounds. 

My reason for bringing it here is not all of the medical community is in harmony on what to do next.  There are valid arguments on all sides.  I should have known it would lead to the name calling, but I had hope it would be discussed rather than what it devolved into.

The point is, I don't really care what an OB/GYN from bumf*ck Tennessee says about how and when to open up the economy.  Her opinion isn't any more valid because she is a doctor.  She has no authority on how to manage pandemics.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 14, 2020, 10:10:10 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 14, 2020, 09:59:18 AM

It was for discussion here.  I find myself supporting some of their views, not all.  We are in agreement on their backgrounds and that is why it would b fascinating to me to do a national survey of doctors on this topic.  Doctors in NYC may have very different opinions than those in Lincoln, NE despite similar educational backgrounds. 

My reason for bringing it here is not all of the medical community is in harmony on what to do next.  There are valid arguments on all sides.  I should have known it would lead to the name calling, but I had hope it would be discussed rather than what it devolved into.

Considering how almost identical this is to a recent memorable presidential quote... This has to be trolling. Has to be.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 14, 2020, 10:43:04 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 14, 2020, 09:39:38 AM

Pakuni

You are right, I would be pretending to be a liberal Democrat because I am a moderate Democrat and not particularly partisan.  We talked about this here several times a year or two ago and the young liberal guys could not process.  I own a gun, am pro life, believe in strong borders and the working class.  In my formative days that was the Democratic Party.  Both parties have shifted leaving a gaping hole in the middle crying for leadership.  Cannot think of a better point in time in my life than now for someone to fill it.  This crisis calls for that type of response.

For the youngsters here, this was 1972 platform, the first election I voted in.  You can understand that those of us that grew up in that time period and adhere to those philosophies may not fit today’s version of the party. It is one reason my wife is now an independent.  What is tragic in this country is the perceived bullying by both sides to adhere strongly to the far side of each ideology.  It doesn’t have to be.  For the older members here, some of you have changed with your party and some of us have not.  Leave the name calling out of it.

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/428559-1972-campaign-reveals-how-much-modern-democrats-have-changed

Unequivocal bull crap.

Not to mention the author of this article is a hyper-partisan hack

Quote

Eli Lehrer

President, R Street

Eli Lehrer is President of R Street, a free-market think tank with offices in Washington, D.C., Columbus, Ohio, Tallahassee, Florida, and Austin, Texas. Prior to heading R Street, Lehrer was a Vice President of the Heartland Institute who, along with his staff, left Heartland to create R Street in May of 2012. He has also worked as a reporter at the Washington Times, a senior editor of the American Enterprise Institute’s magazine, a project manager for the Unisys Corporation, a fellow for the Heritage Foundation, and speechwriter to Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist. His work has appeared in dozens of magazines and newspapers including National Review, USA Today, Miami Herald, and Washington Post. He writes regular articles on arts and public policy for the Weekly Standard and was a regular blogger on frumforum.com. He has lived in the Washington, D.C. metropolitan area for over a decade and currently resides in Herndon, Virginia with his wife, Kari and son, Andrew. In addition to his work, he enjoys running, visiting museums, and riding the Pirates of the Caribbean ride at Disney World.

Everything I bolded is a conservative entity.  You're so transparent.

In your formative years, Nixon advocated for affordable health care for all.  Just more of your disingenuous arguments that the Democrats somehow moved further left.

What actually happened is Republicans moved so far to the right, that anything moderate at all gets labeled as socialism.  And instead of balancing out over time with fair and balanced journalism, we got people like Rush Limbaugh and his ilk.  Preying on stupid people to achieve their goals, and line their pockets.  And who do we have to thank for all this partisan crap?  Newt Gingrich and Grover Norquist.  They inoculated you against civility back in the mid 90s.  The outright disdain and hyper-partisanship is their doing.

You try to come off as some guru of history and political theory.  But people here see through it.  You convert no one.  Your dog whistles and talking points are so obvious.  Anyone with 5 minutes can do a minuscule amount of research and figure out your slant.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lighthouse 84 on April 14, 2020, 10:57:26 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 14, 2020, 09:39:38 AM

Pakuni

For the youngsters here, this was 1972 platform, the first election I voted in. 

  So voting for the first time in 1972 would make WarriorDad around 66-ish.  Is he a liar or does this finally put rest that he's not Chicos?  I'm guessing the latter. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 14, 2020, 11:01:32 AM

For the business people on the board. What would be worse for the economy?

1. Keeping everything closed for the next 45 days.
2. Opening the economy in 2 weeks, but having to re-shut everything down again for 60 days in another month or two?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 14, 2020, 11:03:04 AM

Quote from: Mane'shouse 84 on April 14, 2020, 10:57:26 AM

  So voting for the first time in 1972 would make WarriorDad around 66-ish.  Is he a liar or does this finally put rest that he's not Chicos?  I'm guessing the latter.

Ah, you assume he is being honest.  Rich.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 14, 2020, 11:03:17 AM

Quote from: forgetful on April 14, 2020, 11:01:32 AM

For the business people on the board. What would be worse for the economy?

1. Keeping everything closed for the next 45 days.
2. Opening the economy in 2 weeks, but having to re-shut everything down again for 60 days in another month or two?

2, but it all ends the same.

#LastDays

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on April 14, 2020, 11:16:21 AM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 14, 2020, 11:03:17 AM

2, but it all ends the same.

#LastDays

Oh, for FFS. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 14, 2020, 11:34:44 AM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 14, 2020, 11:03:17 AM

2, but it all ends the same.

#LastDays

Live Zoom meeting with JayB
(https://media.giphy.com/media/zayogJGZ4YyYM/giphy.gif)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: lawdog77 on April 14, 2020, 11:37:16 AM

Quote from: tower912 on April 14, 2020, 08:53:50 AM

  Again, if you feel that one political argument is overrepresented, make the case with facts and data that the federal response has been timely, appropriate, efficient, and effective.

I am neither a Democrat, nor a Republican so...
1. Do we have enough ventilators
2. Did the Government have discussions with Big Pharma early enough? (I believe we had around 100  confirmed cases, when he had his big meeting (end of February/start of March)

That being said, his press conferences are a trainwreck, and always have been, in my opinion. Whether or not he should have put in a frederal quarantine, and whether that would have been effective is the big question to me.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on April 14, 2020, 11:45:06 AM

Quote from: forgetful on April 14, 2020, 11:01:32 AM

For the business people on the board. What would be worse for the economy?

1. Keeping everything closed for the next 45 days.
2. Opening the economy in 2 weeks, but having to re-shut everything down again for 60 days in another month or two?

#2 would be worse, but the real question is whether #1 precludes #2, or if it just pushes the window for the second shutdown back. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 14, 2020, 11:47:21 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni link=topic=59849.msg1233020#msg1233020
Everything I bolded is a conservative entity.  You're so transparent.

[/quote

Whhhhhaaaaat?  You're trying to tell me "moderate Democrats" DON'T continuously espouse right wing points of view?

And pull "bothsiderisms" like--oh, what was that one fellow's name(s) that used to do that?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on April 14, 2020, 11:54:22 AM

Quote from: forgetful on April 14, 2020, 11:01:32 AM

For the business people on the board. What would be worse for the economy?

1. Keeping everything closed for the next 45 days.
2. Opening the economy in 2 weeks, but having to re-shut everything down again for 60 days in another month or two?

Most business facing people have no issue with 45 days.  30-45 days was looking best case anyways. Limited reopening as we moved into mid-May.  Its suggestions of 90+ days that there are issues with.  At that point, as a business person, I'd rather take my chances cause one MAY end me, but the other definitely will.

Its gonna be a REALLY hard sell to have declining volumes of any metric in hotspots for 1-2-3 weeks, as we're seeing daily in NY or CA, and keep directing people to keep their businesses closed.  Just IMO

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on April 14, 2020, 11:58:04 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on April 14, 2020, 11:54:22 AM

Most business facing people have no issue with 45 days.  30-45 days was looking best case anyways. Limited reopening as we moved into mid-May.  Its suggestions of 90+ days that there are issues with.  At that point, as a business person, I'd rather take my chances cause one MAY end me, but the other definitely will.

Its gonna be a REALLY hard sell to have declining volumes of any metric in hotspots for 1-2-3 weeks, as we're seeing daily in NY or CA, and keep directing people to keep their businesses closed.  Just IMO

The question is how far to the numbers have to decline to start considering a safe, phased re-opening.  Obviously the other challenge is the numbers that are out there are likely massively under-reported due to the lack of testing, the people who were asymptomatic, and the people who managed to beat it at home without ever getting tested. 

There's no good answer but being too aggressive would be an unmitigated disaster. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 14, 2020, 12:37:14 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 14, 2020, 11:01:32 AM

For the business people on the board. What would be worse for the economy?

1. Keeping everything closed for the next 45 days.
2. Opening the economy in 2 weeks, but having to re-shut everything down again for 60 days in another month or two?

If the next 45 days mean your business goes bankrupt if it doesn’t open, how would you respond?  Especially in part of the country where this impact is smaller at the moment?  These are the tough decisions that have to be made.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 14, 2020, 12:42:15 PM

Quote from: Mane'shouse 84 on April 14, 2020, 10:57:26 AM

  So voting for the first time in 1972 would make WarriorDad around 66-ish.  Is he a liar or does this finally put rest that he's not Chicos?  I'm guessing the latter.

Do not forget until 1971 the age requirement was 21 to vote.  The 26th amendment was ratified in 1971 in the Summer to allow 18 year olds to vote for the first time in 1972.  Exciting times for us from that generation.  Factor that into your guess. 

No, I am not any other person here, but that will not change accusations.  Someone else said both sides is a troll?  I have used the term both sides for years and years.  It is what moderates tend to do who see problems on Both Sides!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 14, 2020, 12:59:07 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 14, 2020, 10:43:04 AM

Unequivocal bull crap.

Not to mention the author of this article is a hyper-partisan hack

Everything I bolded is a conservative entity.  You're so transparent.

In your formative years, Nixon advocated for affordable health care for all.  Just more of your disingenuous arguments that the Democrats somehow moved further left.

What actually happened is Republicans moved so far to the right, that anything moderate at all gets labeled as socialism.  And instead of balancing out over time with fair and balanced journalism, we got people like Rush Limbaugh and his ilk.  Preying on stupid people to achieve their goals, and line their pockets.  And who do we have to thank for all this partisan crap?  Newt Gingrich and Grover Norquist.  They inoculated you against civility back in the mid 90s.  The outright disdain and hyper-partisanship is their doing.

You try to come off as some guru of history and political theory.  But people here see through it.  You convert no one.  Your dog whistles and talking points are so obvious.  Anyone with 5 minutes can do a minuscule amount of research and figure out your slant.

Respectfully more than two years ago I messaged this.

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=55476.msg995502#msg995502

From the Washington Post and you didn’t care for that view either.  Was that author a partisan hack?  Both parties have moved further from the center as the graphics properly lay out.  I chose a poor example that you don’t care for because of the author.  Now do the same analysis from two years ago with the same conclusion by an author you do not find to be troubling.  If you think the parties haven’t BOTH become more extreme it says only one thing.  You haven’t been around very long to witness it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 14, 2020, 01:00:42 PM

More than 100 protesters rallied in downtown Raleigh to reopen North Carolina on Tuesday, describing Gov. Roy Cooper’s stay-home order as an unconstitutional overreach that will kill the state’s small businesses.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article241999131.html?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 14, 2020, 01:07:29 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 14, 2020, 10:10:10 AM

Considering how almost identical this is to a recent memorable presidential quote... This has to be trolling. Has to be.

Yep. Too close to be just a coincidence....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 14, 2020, 01:13:40 PM

With regards to small business concerns - I go back to a month or so ago when this all really started to snowball. At that point (and it may now be too late), payments should have been suspended: rent, utilities, debt payments, etc. Businesses that were non-essential should have furloughed, not fired. Government gives way more to individuals to stay home and afford essential goods during the majority of this crisis. And for essential businesses, grants from the Fed.

Other countries followed similar decisions.

This entire half-measure bullcrap is the worst.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 14, 2020, 01:16:52 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 14, 2020, 11:34:44 AM

Live Zoom meeting with JayB
(https://media.giphy.com/media/zayogJGZ4YyYM/giphy.gif)

In all fairness, I can think of only one JB who's dealt with the pandemic better than this one.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 14, 2020, 01:17:21 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 14, 2020, 01:13:40 PM

This entire half-measure bullcrap is the worst.

Funny - I was thinking that very thing the other day. Walter White would just be shaking his head at how this has been handled from the start.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Silent Verbal on April 14, 2020, 02:13:16 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 14, 2020, 01:00:42 PM

More than 100 protesters rallied in downtown Raleigh to reopen North Carolina on Tuesday, describing Gov. Roy Cooper’s stay-home order as an unconstitutional overreach that will kill the state’s small businesses.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article241999131.html?

This will start happening in other parts of the country before long.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 14, 2020, 02:17:13 PM

Quote from: Silent Verbal on April 14, 2020, 02:13:16 PM

This will start happening in other parts of the country before long.

You're probably right.

And there probably will be counter-protests.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 14, 2020, 02:31:13 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 14, 2020, 12:59:07 PM

Respectfully more than two years ago I messaged this.

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=55476.msg995502#msg995502

From the Washington Post and you didn’t care for that view either.  Was that author a partisan hack?  Both parties have moved further from the center as the graphics properly lay out.  I chose a poor example that you don’t care for because of the author.  Now do the same analysis from two years ago with the same conclusion by an author you do not find to be troubling.  If you think the parties haven’t BOTH become more extreme it says only one thing.  You haven’t been around very long to witness it.

Respectfully, just admit who you truly are.

edit:  I didn't care for that view?  I never even responded.  I think we all know only one person here who would be willing to dig through years of posts... and then repost something from a locked thread from two years ago.  LMAO.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 14, 2020, 02:43:56 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 14, 2020, 01:00:42 PM

More than 100 protesters rallied in downtown Raleigh to reopen North Carolina on Tuesday, describing Gov. Roy Cooper’s stay-home order as an unconstitutional overreach that will kill the state’s small businesses.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article241999131.html?

Anti-vaxxers to boot.
Figures.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 14, 2020, 03:15:30 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on April 14, 2020, 02:43:56 PM

Anti-vaxxers to boot.
Figures.

What do we want?

The right to infect others!

When do we want it?

Now!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 14, 2020, 03:28:55 PM

Quote from: MUBurrow on April 14, 2020, 11:45:06 AM

#2 would be worse, but the real question is whether #1 precludes #2, or if it just pushes the window for the second shutdown back.

The original goal was to close until end of April, while we got the infrastructure and resources in place to be able to do widespread testing and contact tracing.

We've been chasing that latter aspect forever, largely because of top down failures. We are still failing that test.

The 45 days more, should allow us to get there, unless we continue to have gross incompetence and malfeasance.

If we have all that in place, I believe #1 precludes #2.

In all honesty, much of the nation could have safely reopened now if we didn't have horrendous failures in establishing a robust testing and contact tracing platform. If we open, possibly even before May 1, which was announced as a goal in the press conference yesterday, then #2 almost assuredly happens.

I believe 2 is worse than 1.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 14, 2020, 03:40:09 PM

Quote from: Silent Verbal on April 14, 2020, 02:13:16 PM

This will start happening in other parts of the country before long.

Michigan tomorrow.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 14, 2020, 03:41:40 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 14, 2020, 01:00:42 PM

More than 100 protesters rallied in downtown Raleigh to reopen North Carolina on Tuesday, describing Gov. Roy Cooper’s stay-home order as an unconstitutional overreach that will kill the state’s small businesses.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article241999131.html?

Would be sort of ironic if they all got it from gathering in such a large group

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 14, 2020, 03:42:48 PM

In Michigan, the plan is to stay in their cars and drive around downtown Lansing honking their horns.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 14, 2020, 03:44:57 PM

Quote from: tower912 on April 14, 2020, 03:42:48 PM

In Michigan, the plan is to stay in their cars and drive around downtown Lansing honking their horns.

I'd be torn between saving my eggs to eat and throwing them at the cars 🤔

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 14, 2020, 03:46:16 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 14, 2020, 03:28:55 PM

The original goal was to close until end of April, while we got the infrastructure and resources in place to be able to do widespread testing and contact tracing.

We've been chasing that latter aspect forever, largely because of top down failures. We are still failing that test.

The 45 days more, should allow us to get there, unless we continue to have gross incompetence and malfeasance.

If we have all that in place, I believe #1 precludes #2.

In all honesty, much of the nation could have safely reopened now if we didn't have horrendous failures in establishing a robust testing and contact tracing platform. If we open, possibly even before May 1, which was announced as a goal in the press conference yesterday, then #2 almost assuredly happens.

I believe 2 is worse than 1.

I agree with this 100% but i think we will see it in stages and different depending on where you live

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 14, 2020, 03:49:08 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 14, 2020, 03:28:55 PM

The original goal was to close until end of April, while we got the infrastructure and resources in place to be able to do widespread testing and contact tracing.

We've been chasing that latter aspect forever, largely because of top down failures. We are still failing that test.

The 45 days more, should allow us to get there, unless we continue to have gross incompetence and malfeasance.

If we have all that in place, I believe #1 precludes #2.

In all honesty, much of the nation could have safely reopened now if we didn't have horrendous failures in establishing a robust testing and contact tracing platform. If we open, possibly even before May 1, which was announced as a goal in the press conference yesterday, then #2 almost assuredly happens.

I believe 2 is worse than 1.

Agree completely. And it depends on CDC being allowed to do its thing.

If CDC has been allowed to do its thing  - taking the lead on both testing and contact tracing - from the start, we might already be reopened. Maybe we wouldn’t even had to have closed. This despite the initial failure of one CDC test.

If CDC is pushed into overdrive NOW, we could very well reopen in a few weeks without having to worry about closing back down. Like you said #1 could preclude #2.

But if CDC is left on the back burner as merely a backstop to state and local public health officials, we might be opening and closing over and over until we have a vaccine.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 14, 2020, 03:54:08 PM

Quote from: tower912 on April 14, 2020, 03:42:48 PM

In Michigan, the plan is to stay in their cars and drive around downtown Lansing honking their horns.

How is that different from any other day in Michigan?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 14, 2020, 04:10:39 PM

Well played.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 14, 2020, 04:13:23 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 14, 2020, 01:07:29 PM

Yep. Too close to be just a coincidence....

Do me a favor, click on the search function here.  https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=search;advanced;search=


Type in “both sides” and then warriordad as the user

You will see it is an expression used by me often since I started here and has been part of my vernacular for as long as my memory goes back years and years.  It is how my worldly view is.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 14, 2020, 04:16:00 PM

New York City’s death toll soars past 10,000 in a revised virus count.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/us/coronavirus-updates.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage#link-7edf39e3

IMHO - with the lack of testing, we may still be undercounting the COVID deaths. Given the initial failures, we will never know for sure.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 14, 2020, 04:18:53 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 14, 2020, 04:13:23 PM

Do me a favor, click on the search function here.  https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=search;advanced;search=


Type in “both sides” and then warriordad as the user

You will see it is an expression used by me often since I started here and has been part of my vernacular for as long as my memory goes back years and years.  It is how my worldly view is.

Trump’s quote was on August 15, 2017. Your profile indicates you registered here shortly thereafter - on November 25, 2017. So yeah - I believe you have used the phrase since you registered here.
 
Thanks for the roadmap.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on April 14, 2020, 04:20:07 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 14, 2020, 04:13:23 PM

Do me a favor, click on the search function here.  https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=search;advanced;search=


Type in “both sides” and then warriordad as the user

You will see it is an expression used by me often since I started here and has been part of my vernacular for as long as my memory goes back years and years. It is how my worldly view is.

lol, serious man is serious.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 14, 2020, 04:21:14 PM

Quote from: jficke13 on April 14, 2020, 04:20:07 PM

lol, serious man is serious.

Bigly.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 14, 2020, 05:11:06 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 14, 2020, 04:16:00 PM

New York City’s death toll soars past 10,000 in a revised virus count.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/us/coronavirus-updates.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage#link-7edf39e3

IMHO - with the lack of testing, we may still be undercounting the COVID deaths. Given the initial failures, we will never know for sure.

China had a big one day jump for the same reason, a shift from requiring rt-PCR verification, to clinical diagnoses in illness and death counts.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 14, 2020, 05:13:31 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 13, 2020, 10:40:28 AM

;)

https://theathletic.com/1746724/2020/04/14/mlb-team-employees-will-be-the-subjects-of-the-u-s-s-largest-covid-19-antibody-study/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on April 14, 2020, 05:46:31 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 14, 2020, 09:37:11 AM

If Putin is publically stating those problems, you gotta know they are much, much worse in actuality.

Could just be cover for those uncontrollable  fires dangerously close to the Chernobyl waste storage.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 14, 2020, 05:48:57 PM

Quote from: Retire0 on April 14, 2020, 05:46:31 PM

Could just be cover for those uncontrollable  fires dangerously close to the Chernobyl waste storage.

Wouldn’t that be Ukraine’s problem to sweep under the rug?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 14, 2020, 06:08:29 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 14, 2020, 05:13:31 PM

https://theathletic.com/1746724/2020/04/14/mlb-team-employees-will-be-the-subjects-of-the-u-s-s-largest-covid-19-antibody-study/

Ya. Just saw that.

Again, from what I know personally - from only 1 team - these tests are being used in ways slightly different. Though I suppose if the participants/results are from anonymous patients, it won't matter who actually uses them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 14, 2020, 06:23:51 PM

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1220818115354923009?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 14, 2020, 06:49:23 PM

Covid-19: Mayo Clinic now has the capacity to process 10K antibody tests a day

https://www.medcitybeat.com/news-blog/2020/mayo-clinic-laboratories-capacity-10000-serologic-tests

Great for testing purposes, and also a nice step towards more widespread treatment with convalescent plasma.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 14, 2020, 07:11:50 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 14, 2020, 03:49:08 PM

Agree completely. And it depends on CDC being allowed to do its thing.

If CDC has been allowed to do its thing  - taking the lead on both testing and contact tracing - from the start, we might already be reopened. Maybe we wouldn’t even had to have closed. This despite the initial failure of one CDC test.

If CDC is pushed into overdrive NOW, we could very well reopen in a few weeks without having to worry about closing back down. Like you said #1 could preclude #2.

But if CDC is left on the back burner as merely a backstop to state and local public health officials, we might be opening and closing over and over until we have a vaccine.

Sadly, in today's press conference, we learned that will not be the case. We were told that testing is the State's responsibility, and any failures in testing are the fault of the governors and local entities.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 14, 2020, 07:19:42 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 14, 2020, 07:11:50 PM

Sadly, in today's press conference, we learned that will not be the case. We were told that testing is the State's responsibility, and any failures in testing are the fault of the governors and local entities.

Starve the beast

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on April 14, 2020, 07:25:40 PM

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/administration/492813-trump-to-halt-who-funding-amid-review%3Famp

Lolllllllll. Look in the effing mirror dude. What an idiot.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 14, 2020, 07:59:02 PM

Quote from: wadesworld on April 14, 2020, 07:25:40 PM

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/administration/492813-trump-to-halt-who-funding-amid-review%3Famp

Lolllllllll. Look in the effing mirror dude. What an idiot.

Just item #126 in his attempt to shift blame elsewhere, item #125 being pretending that states should be responsible for all testing.

"I take no responsibility at all."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on April 14, 2020, 08:02:01 PM

Quote from: wadesworld on April 14, 2020, 07:25:40 PM

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/administration/492813-trump-to-halt-who-funding-amid-review%3Famp

Lolllllllll. Look in the effing mirror dude. What an idiot.

Couldn't find any minorities to blame.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 14, 2020, 08:11:44 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 14, 2020, 07:11:50 PM

Sadly, in today's press conference, we learned that will not be the case. We were told that testing is the State's responsibility, and any failures in testing are the fault of the governors and local entities.

I have all the power!
Also, I have no power.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 14, 2020, 08:17:01 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 14, 2020, 04:18:53 PM

Trump’s quote was on August 15, 2017. Your profile indicates you registered here shortly thereafter - on November 25, 2017. So yeah - I believe you have used the phrase since you registered here.
 
Thanks for the roadmap.

Three months later is shortly thereafter? Ok.  For me, been using it for as long as I can remember.  Part of my mediation approach I guess.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 14, 2020, 08:22:12 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 14, 2020, 06:23:51 PM

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1220818115354923009?s=19

Give him 12 hours to say the exact opposite.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on April 14, 2020, 08:34:47 PM

models predicted flood on health care system so new auxillary hospitals being built.  finding that we more than likely won't need em...now what

in the mean time, many health care workers are being laid off while other essential medical issues are being kicked down the road.  silly things like biopsies and the such unrelated to covid.  healthcare facilities are losing money hand over fist because they aren't able to attend to other medical issues.  patients are going to die from untreated cancers, cardiovascular issues, etc.

  next bailout-hospitals, et.al.  but if left up to the "expert" of "experts", doc fauci, keep us all safe at home for another 6 months.  that ought to do it >:(

wonder what the other "experts" suggest

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 14, 2020, 08:39:49 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 14, 2020, 08:34:47 PM

models predicted flood on health care system so new auxillary hospitals being built.  finding that we more than likely won't need em...now what

in the mean time, many health care workers are being laid off while other essential medical issues are being kicked down the road.  silly things like biopsies and the such unrelated to covid.  healthcare facilities are losing money hand over fist because they aren't able to attend to other medical issues.  patients are going to die from untreated cancers, cardiovascular issues, etc.

  next bailout-hospitals, et.al.  but if left up to the "expert" of "experts", doc fauci, keep us all safe at home for another 6 months.  that ought to do it >:(

wonder what the other "experts" suggest

Fauci has never said we should stay at home another six months.

But hey following the talking points to a tee!  Good job!!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 14, 2020, 08:41:24 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 14, 2020, 08:34:47 PM

models predicted flood on health care system so new auxillary hospitals being built.  finding that we more than likely won't need em...now what

in the mean time, many health care workers are being laid off while other essential medical issues are being kicked down the road.  silly things like biopsies and the such unrelated to covid.  healthcare facilities are losing money hand over fist because they aren't able to attend to other medical issues.  patients are going to die from untreated cancers, cardiovascular issues, etc.

  next bailout-hospitals, et.al.  but if left up to the "expert" of "experts", doc fauci, keep us all safe at home for another 6 months.  that ought to do it >:(

wonder what the other "experts" suggest

I don’t understand blaming dr Fauci.  I don’t like this anymore than anyone else, but where in the world can you go that’s different.  The virus is here and it’s slowly being brought under control.  Like everywhere

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 14, 2020, 08:45:37 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 14, 2020, 08:41:24 PM

I don’t understand blaming dr Fauci.

He contradicted Trump. Therefore, the target of today's Two Minute Hate...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 14, 2020, 08:46:20 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 14, 2020, 08:34:47 PM

n the mean time, many health care workers are being laid off while other essential medical issues are being kicked down the road.  silly things like biopsies and the such unrelated to covid.  healthcare facilities are losing money hand over fist because they aren't able to attend to other medical issues.  patients are going to die from untreated cancers, cardiovascular issues,

Do you have any, you know, evidence that cancer patients are going untreated and dying?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 14, 2020, 09:40:31 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 14, 2020, 08:45:37 PM

He contradicted Trump. Therefore, the target of today's Two Minute Hate...

I can't imagine taking those talking points, and then having to repeat them with a straight face.  Like, how do you think face yourself?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on April 14, 2020, 09:56:26 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 14, 2020, 08:39:49 PM

Fauci has never said we should stay at home another six months.

But hey following the talking points to a tee!  Good job!!!

Didn’t think I had to be quite so literal ,but whoopsie, didn’t pass it thru the fluffy filter first

Here’s another one you might have to correct for me.

  We pay WHO $400-500 million per year(give or take a few million$ just to give myself some sully wiggle room). And China pays $40 million. Time to level that off some eyn’a? I say sue em for malpractice for whatever this thing ends up costing us...that’s with sully blessing of course🙄

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 14, 2020, 10:02:24 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 14, 2020, 09:56:26 PM

Didn’t think I had to be quite so literal ,but whoopsie, didn’t pass it thru the fluffy filter first

Here’s another one you might have to correct for me.

  We pay WHO $400-500 million per year(give or take a few million$ just to give myself some sully wiggle room). And China pays $40 million. Time to level that off some eyn’a? I say sue em for malpractice for whatever this thing ends up costing us...that’s with sully blessing of course🙄

Great idea. And how ‘bout we sue POTUS for the several weeks of delay after his minions warned him? The delay that continues to this day....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 14, 2020, 10:30:35 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 14, 2020, 09:56:26 PM

Didn’t think I had to be quite so literal ,but whoopsie, didn’t pass it thru the fluffy filter first

Here’s another one you might have to correct for me.

  We pay WHO $400-500 million per year(give or take a few million$ just to give myself some sully wiggle room). And China pays $40 million. Time to level that off some eyn’a? I say sue em for malpractice for whatever this thing ends up costing us...that’s with sully blessing of course🙄

Why? What's YOUR rationale on the US decreasing its funding? And what does China's funding have to do with what the US is doing?

And why are you just NOW bringing up WHO funding?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 14, 2020, 11:09:31 PM

I keep coming back to the criticism of the WHO, and China in how they handled this. A general timeline.

In China:

Dec. 30th. Whistleblower says he identified 7 unexplained pneumonia cases.
Dec. 31st. China publicly announces unexplained illnesses in Wuhan associated with seafood market.
Jan. 9th. First identification of it as a novel coronavirus
Jan. 11th. They release the genome
Jan. 16th. First test developed by a German lab.
Jan. 20th. First confirmation of persistent person-person spread.

So if we back date those first cases 10 days. We could say from first known cases to confirmation of sustained person-person spread (e.g. community spread) took 1-month. For China and the WHO to confirm.

In the US: Starting with known tests available and that a disease was circulating

Jan. 21st. First confirmed case in the US (travel related).
Feb. 26th. First confirmed evidence of community spread.

So it took us roughly 1 month also to get to confirmation of community spread.

I'm sure China and the WHO would love a redo on this, but they matched our speed, when they had to first identify something was different. Then identify the causative agent. Then sequence the genome. Develop a test. And then trace cases in the community and elsewhere.

We had access to tests and couldn't track it spreading through communities for over a month.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 14, 2020, 11:19:40 PM

It certainly is fair to criticize WHO for its delays, but the Administration still delayed its response long after it had the information required to know what we are dealing with.

People who live in glass (White) houses....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 14, 2020, 11:37:34 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 14, 2020, 11:19:40 PM

It certainly is fair to criticize WHO for its delays, but the Administration still delayed its response long after it had the information required to know what we are dealing with.

People who live in glass (White) houses....

In hindsight, they probably could have been more aggressive before Dec. 30th.

And looking at what is known. I can find maybe a 5-7 day window where they could've/should've recognized community spread in China sooner. But that couldn't technically be confirmed without a test, which wasn't developed until Jan. 16th. In hindsight, they should have made a clinical diagnosis of sustained person-person spread a bit earlier.

Given an up to 14-day incubation period, and a high level of asymptomatic spread/cases. They really didn't do terrible. A post-analysis will obviously find where mistakes and delays occurred, and we need to fix these issues. Notably, the whistleblower saved a lot of lives by accelerating the timeline.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 14, 2020, 11:38:20 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 14, 2020, 11:09:31 PM

I keep coming back to the criticism of the WHO, and China in how they handled this. A general timeline.

In China:

Dec. 30th. Whistleblower says he identified 7 unexplained pneumonia cases.
Dec. 31st. China publicly announces unexplained illnesses in Wuhan associated with seafood market.
Jan. 9th. First identification of it as a novel coronavirus
Jan. 11th. They release the genome
Jan. 16th. First test developed by a German lab.
Jan. 20th. First confirmation of persistent person-person spread.

So if we back date those first cases 10 days. We could say from first known cases to confirmation of sustained person-person spread (e.g. community spread) took 1-month. For China and the WHO to confirm.

In the US: Starting with known tests available and that a disease was circulating

Jan. 21st. First confirmed case in the US (travel related).
Feb. 26th. First confirmed evidence of community spread.

So it took us roughly 1 month also to get to confirmation of community spread.

I'm sure China and the WHO would love a redo on this, but they matched our speed, when they had to first identify something was different. Then identify the causative agent. Then sequence the genome. Develop a test. And then trace cases in the community and elsewhere.

We had access to tests and couldn't track it spreading through communities for over a month.

Trump criticized WHO for taking China's word about the virus. But over and over, Trump has said that he trusted the Chinese and that Xi was a good man.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on April 15, 2020, 01:08:25 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 14, 2020, 10:02:24 PM

Great idea. And how ‘bout we sue POTUS for the several weeks of delay after his minions warned him? The delay that continues to this day....

You gotta turn off cnn bruh they’re hurtin your head

If you can’t criticize WHO, I’ll just hang up...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 15, 2020, 02:02:15 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 15, 2020, 01:08:25 AM

If you can’t criticize WHO, I’ll just hang up...

Umm, he did..

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 14, 2020, 11:19:40 PM

It certainly is fair to criticize WHO for its delays,

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 15, 2020, 04:59:01 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 15, 2020, 01:08:25 AM

You gotta turn off cnn bruh they’re hurtin your head

If you can’t criticize WHO, I’ll just hang up...

You gotta turn off oan brun they're hurtin your head

If you can't criticize the corrupt liar WHO keeps conning his sheeple into thinking jared is the solution to every problem, you should just hang up...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 15, 2020, 05:09:23 AM

Ok here are some ideas.

 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/upshot/coronavirus-singapore-thinking-big.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/upshot/coronavirus-singapore-thinking-big.html)

Discussion about complexities of reopening Europe.

 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/world/europe/coronavirus-reopenings-europe.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/world/europe/coronavirus-reopenings-europe.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 15, 2020, 05:25:06 AM

Another report of the difficulty accurately capturing deaths in Europe. 

 https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-death-toll-in-europe-likely-far-higher-than-first-reported-11586896486 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-death-toll-in-europe-likely-far-higher-than-first-reported-11586896486)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 15, 2020, 07:55:42 AM

I wonder: is she really this dumb, or is she just playing the rubes?

https://twitter.com/revrrlewis/status/1250395628305362944
Kellyanne Conway: "This is COVID-19, not COVID-1 folks, and so you would think the people in charge of the World Health Organization, facts and figures, would be on top of that."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 15, 2020, 08:06:08 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 15, 2020, 01:08:25 AM

You gotta turn off cnn bruh they’re hurtin your head

If you can’t criticize WHO, I’ll just hang up...

RIF

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 15, 2020, 08:08:31 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 15, 2020, 07:55:42 AM

I wonder: is she really this dumb, or is she just playing the rubes?

https://twitter.com/revrrlewis/status/1250395628305362944
Kellyanne Conway: "This is COVID-19, not COVID-1 folks, and so you would think the people in charge of the World Health Organization, facts and figures, would be on top of that."

The latter.

But you might get banned for calling POTUS, VP and the Cabinet rubes. Too political, ya know.  ;)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 15, 2020, 10:01:53 AM

https://www.newsweek.com/chile-counts-those-who-died-coronavirus-recovered-because-theyre-no-longer-contagious-health-1497775

That's one way to lower your numbers

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 15, 2020, 11:37:54 AM

Testing slows down.  Commercial labs have excess testing capacity.  Apparently due to more strict CDC guidelines.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/14/coronavirus-testing-delays-186883

The list of countries that is handing this better than us is a very long one. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 15, 2020, 11:46:11 AM

The list of countries handling it worse is relatively short, though.    And, we can say that we are #1 in something.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 15, 2020, 11:51:32 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 15, 2020, 11:37:54 AM

Testing slows down.  Commercial labs have excess testing capacity.  Apparently due to more strict CDC guidelines.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/14/coronavirus-testing-delays-186883

The list of countries that is handing this better than us is a very long one.

For those screaming "but what could Trump do" - in this case, if he were to direct the CDC to open up testing so that labs are fully utilized - TODAY - that would be a good start.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 15, 2020, 11:52:09 AM

Quote from: tower912 on April 15, 2020, 11:46:11 AM

The list of countries handling it worse is relatively short, though.    And, we can say that we are #1 in something.

I actually think this is false or not entirely fair.

The emerging markets is getting hammered because they have no infrastructure and only have shut down/isolation as an option (and even at that there is little social distance).  We dont see that in the numbers because testing is very low.

Of the western world, we are generally in line with Spain/Italy/UK - behind Germany.  I would add Singapore & SK as outliers on the clearly positive side.

We have the capability, wealth, industry to be much better.  But we are average.  Time will tell upon relaxing of  social distancing on whether we fall further back. 

The trick here economically is to get control of the virus to limit further shut-downs (so limit time at the trough).  The level of testing & tracing is just not their to give me confidence yet we can start the recovery unimpeded.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 15, 2020, 11:53:57 AM

Fair.   And shame on me for being snarky.      Universal testing and an effective treatment for the potentially lethal cases.      One of those should be in the pipeline and ready.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 15, 2020, 12:46:22 PM

Everyone is apparently making masks this week. 
There is a feeding frenzy of people looking for wire that is the identical alloy & dimensions of N95 mask wire.  Since there is none the new minimum requirement is aluminum and flat and bendable and they are willing to pay anything for it if you have inventory.  Wire that normally goes in razor blades is the winner!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on April 15, 2020, 01:12:40 PM

I saw Cuomo is now mandating people wear masks in public.

I've been a good solider on the distancing and sheltering in place thing, but for whatever reason this bugs me.  Maybe it's my center-right leanings, but I'm not terribly comfortable with the government mandating what I wear when I leave my house. Especially since the effectiveness is highly questionable.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on April 15, 2020, 01:22:06 PM

Quote from: MUfan12 on April 15, 2020, 01:12:40 PM

I saw Cuomo is now mandating people wear masks in public.

I've been a good solider on the distancing and sheltering in place thing, but for whatever reason this bugs me.  Maybe it's my center-right leanings, but I'm not terribly comfortable with the government mandating what I wear when I leave my house. Especially since the effectiveness is highly questionable.

It's not highly questionable at all. The particles are large enough that if YOU are sick, it will accomplish its job of protecting others in limited interactions. Since the incubation period is so high with so many being asymptomatic, this is a reasonable ask in the absence of a coherent federal response for active case/titer testing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Lens on April 15, 2020, 01:48:49 PM

Quote from: MUfan12 on April 15, 2020, 01:12:40 PM

I saw Cuomo is now mandating people wear masks in public.

I've been a good solider on the distancing and sheltering in place thing, but for whatever reason this bugs me.  Maybe it's my center-right leanings, but I'm not terribly comfortable with the government mandating what I wear when I leave my house. Especially since the effectiveness is highly questionable.

I try and wear them whenever I go to the store / pick up carry out.  I look at it as putting the clerk at ease more than anything.  If I had to deal with the public all day, that would make me feel better.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on April 15, 2020, 01:56:17 PM

Quote from: MUfan12 on April 15, 2020, 01:12:40 PM

I saw Cuomo is now mandating people wear masks in public.

I've been a good solider on the distancing and sheltering in place thing, but for whatever reason this bugs me.  Maybe it's my center-right leanings, but I'm not terribly comfortable with the government mandating what I wear when I leave my house. Especially since the effectiveness is highly questionable.

My issue was he said wear it around people, and take it off when you're not.  If its a bandana or scarf, whatever, but putting on and taking off the medical masks completely defeats the purpose and contaminates yourself or breaks the seal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on April 15, 2020, 01:57:50 PM

Quote from: The Lens on April 15, 2020, 01:48:49 PM

I try and wear them whenever I go to the store / pick up carry out.  I look at it as putting the clerk at ease more than anything.  If I had to deal with the public all day, that would make me feel better.

And that's totally fine! Again, it's more the government mandate thing that bothers me than the practice.

Quote from: JWags85 on April 15, 2020, 01:56:17 PM

My issue was he said wear it around people, and take it off when you're not.  If its a bandana or scarf, whatever, but putting on and taking off the medical masks completely defeats the purpose and contaminates yourself or breaks the seal.

Especially if it retains moisture.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 15, 2020, 03:15:44 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on April 15, 2020, 01:56:17 PM

My issue was he said wear it around people, and take it off when you're not.  If its a bandana or scarf, whatever, but putting on and taking off the medical masks completely defeats the purpose and contaminates yourself or breaks the seal.

The point is to protect other people from you - not the other way around.  So you touching your mask (after you wash your hands) shouldn't be a problem.  Since everyone else was wearing a mask too (duh!) very few of their germs could have escaped and gotten to you.*

* - yes, this is an oversimplification, but the point remains.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 15, 2020, 03:37:09 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 15, 2020, 03:15:44 PM

The point is to protect other people from you - not the other way around.  So you touching your mask (after you wash your hands) shouldn't be a problem.  Since everyone else was wearing a mask too (duh!) very few of their germs could have escaped and gotten to you.*

* - yes, this is an oversimplification, but the point remains.

if wearing a mask helps us get back to normal and we have to do that for the next 6 months sign me up. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 15, 2020, 03:43:43 PM

Quote from: MUfan12 on April 15, 2020, 01:57:50 PM

And that's totally fine! Again, it's more the government mandate thing that bothers me than the practice.

If it was a permanent mandate, I would be in line ahead of you protesting.

A temporary mandate to save lives? I'm all in.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on April 15, 2020, 04:11:49 PM

110,465 cases in New York City. i'm as philosophically upset about having to wear a mask as I am about being prohibited from urinating in the subway.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on April 15, 2020, 04:15:30 PM

    "White House senior adviser Kellyanne Conway erroneously asserted on Wednesday that the number 19 in COVID-19, which stands for the year in which the virus was discovered, stood for a strain of the disease.

    The adviser made the slip-up while explaining to the co-hosts of “Fox and Friends” why President Donald Trump decided to halt the U.S.’s payments to the World Health Organization (WHO).

    According to Conway, one reason for doing so was because the organization supposedly can’t be trusted to know how to handle the pandemic.

    “Some of the scientists and doctors say that there could be other strains later on,” she said. “This could come back in the fall in a limited way.”

    “This is COVID-19, not COVID-1 folks, and so you would think the people charged with the World Health Organization facts and figures would be on top of that,” the adviser continued."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 15, 2020, 04:35:45 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 15, 2020, 11:51:32 AM

For those screaming "but what could Trump do" - in this case, if he were to direct the CDC to open up testing so that labs are fully utilized - TODAY - that would be a good start.

For those screaming CDC should be in charge doesn’t that pose a conflict since they are the ones slowing it down?

Do we want CDC in charge or Trump?  Make up your minds people.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 15, 2020, 04:38:03 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 15, 2020, 04:35:45 PM

For those screaming CDC should be in charge doesn’t that pose a conflict since they are the ones slowing it down?

Do we want CDC in charge or Trump?  Make up your minds people.

Holy sh*t.  Really?

It's pretty simple.  Empower the CDC to do the job it was created to do.  Fund them.  Back them.  That's what he should do.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 15, 2020, 04:39:29 PM

edit: I’m having a social distanced backyard beer summit tonight

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 15, 2020, 04:39:46 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 15, 2020, 04:35:45 PM

For those screaming CDC should be in charge doesn’t that pose a conflict since they are the ones slowing it down?

Do we want CDC in charge or Trump?  Make up your minds people.

What's a chicos?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 15, 2020, 04:42:18 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 15, 2020, 04:39:46 PM

What's a chicos?

A chicos is like Covid-19. Everyone is happy when it goes away.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 15, 2020, 04:43:46 PM

Quote from: Mutaman on April 15, 2020, 04:15:30 PM

    "White House senior adviser Kellyanne Conway erroneously asserted on Wednesday that the number 19 in COVID-19, which stands for the year in which the virus was discovered, stood for a strain of the disease.

    The adviser made the slip-up while explaining to the co-hosts of “Fox and Friends” why President Donald Trump decided to halt the U.S.’s payments to the World Health Organization (WHO).

    According to Conway, one reason for doing so was because the organization supposedly can’t be trusted to know how to handle the pandemic.

    “Some of the scientists and doctors say that there could be other strains later on,” she said. “This could come back in the fall in a limited way.”

    “This is COVID-19, not COVID-1 folks, and so you would think the people charged with the World Health Organization facts and figures would be on top of that,” the adviser continued."

Is there a way to tell when she is being stupid or when she is lying?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 15, 2020, 04:47:11 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 15, 2020, 04:35:45 PM

For those screaming CDC should be in charge doesn’t that pose a conflict since they are the ones slowing it down?

Do we want CDC in charge or Trump?  Make up your minds people.

I hope this isn't a serious question because the answer is so obvious, but: we want Trump in charge of the country (and acting like a leader), and CDC in charge of the scientific and logistical aspects of pandemic response.

The path to this is quite simple for Trump; just order CDC to do the jobs for which it was created: "disease control and prevention." And for CDC, the directive would be familiar, because it would mean testing and contact tracing - exactly what it did duding the H1N1 outbreak in 2009.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on April 15, 2020, 04:57:31 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 15, 2020, 04:39:29 PM

edit: I’m having a social distanced backyard beer summit tonight

Billy Hoyle posting the exact same type of stuff chicos would on Hangin At The Al, WarriorDad posting the exact same type of stuff chicos would on the Superbar.

Hell of a beer summit out in SoCal tonight! Too bad those Disney tickets cannot be used this weekend.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 15, 2020, 05:02:03 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 15, 2020, 04:43:46 PM

Is there a way to tell when she is being stupid or when she is lying?

I don't think it has to be an either/or proposition.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 15, 2020, 05:16:14 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 15, 2020, 04:43:46 PM

Is there a way to tell when she is being stupid or when she is lying?

Not lies. Alternative facts. Please!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 15, 2020, 05:25:45 PM

Just found out somebody donated over 100 n95 masks to the school my kids go to.  They are handing out lunches for kids but those should be donated to the hospital

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 15, 2020, 05:29:15 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 15, 2020, 04:47:11 PM

And for CDC, the directive would be familiar, because it would mean testing and contact tracing - exactly what it did duding the H1N1 outbreak in 2009.

Do we really want to do that? rocket told us what a disaster it was in 2009, killing 12,000+ people.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 15, 2020, 06:02:51 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 15, 2020, 04:38:03 PM

Holy sh*t.  Really?

It's pretty simple.  Empower the CDC to do the job it was created to do.  Fund them.  Back them.  That's what he should do.

Maybe I am missing something.  They are empowered and they are making decisions based on scientific merit.  Unless there is something to suggest differently with the slow down, this is caused by the CDC and their processes not by the executive showing it down.  He does plenty wrong all the time, how is he the one slowing CDC down in this case?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 15, 2020, 06:08:48 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 15, 2020, 04:47:11 PM

I hope this isn't a serious question because the answer is so obvious, but: we want Trump in charge of the country (and acting like a leader), and CDC in charge of the scientific and logistical aspects of pandemic response.

The path to this is quite simple for Trump; just order CDC to do the jobs for which it was created: "disease control and prevention." And for CDC, the directive would be familiar, because it would mean testing and contact tracing - exactly what it did duding the H1N1 outbreak in 2009.

I am responding to the article linked that shows the slowing of testing because of criteria and process used by CDC.  Those are CDC decisions are they not?  Or is the President dictating to CDC what the criteria is?

This is why I keep asking the blame game stuff.  He is worthy of plenty of blame and so are endless other entities.  In this case some of you seem to want to blame him for an action caused by the  very department (CDC) you want calling the shots.  They are calling the shots on this topic and you are blaming him for the shots they have called.  Unless you have evidence that suggests he is the one slowing it down.  The article provided shows nothing of the kind.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on April 15, 2020, 06:26:45 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 14, 2020, 03:15:30 PM

What do we want?

The right to infect others!

When do we want it?

Now!

Oh, you seem to remember when the AIDS epidemic hit too?  Just be careful or something, eyn’a?  Here’s a Trojan and a new needle, now go have fun.  Well, they’re gonna do it anyway, so ya might as well...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 15, 2020, 06:28:36 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 15, 2020, 06:08:48 PM

I am responding to the article linked that shows the slowing of testing because of criteria and process used by CDC.  Those are CDC decisions are they not?  Or is the President dictating to CDC what the criteria is?

Yes, the Prez is dictating what the CDC can and cannot do:
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/486475-trump-administration-overrode-health-officials-recommendation-that-elderly

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on April 15, 2020, 06:42:21 PM

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/coronavirus-wuhan-lab-china-compete-us-sources

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 15, 2020, 06:47:26 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 15, 2020, 06:26:45 PM

Oh, you seem to remember when the AIDS epidemic hit too?  Just be careful or something, eyn’a?  Here’s a Trojan and a new needle, now go have fun.  Well, they’re gonna do it anyway, so ya might as well...

Huh?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 15, 2020, 06:51:39 PM

Quote from: muguru on April 15, 2020, 06:42:21 PM

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/coronavirus-wuhan-lab-china-compete-us-sources

Please, for the love of God, stop this conspiracy theory madness.

"Sources"? GTFO.

Show me scientific proof/evidence. Generally, the scientists involved with research behind this disease do not believe any of this crap.

Exhibit A: https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/03/17/covid-19-coronavirus-did-not-come-from-a-lab-study-shows-natural-origins/#4a1034723728

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Johnny B on April 15, 2020, 06:53:37 PM

Course fox news is the only ones reporting

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 15, 2020, 06:57:58 PM

Quote from: muguru on April 15, 2020, 06:42:21 PM

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/coronavirus-wuhan-lab-china-compete-us-sources

The article uses as evidence that the wet-market didn't sell bats.

Studies have shown that coronaviruses in bats are not a good match for SARS-COV-2. The best matches are in pangolin's, which are sold in the wet-market.

But on top of that, the first known case dates back to Nov. by a person not connected to the wet market.

This article is reckless, and Trump is even more reckless for essentially supporting it in the press conference.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 15, 2020, 07:03:10 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 15, 2020, 06:08:48 PM

I am responding to the article linked that shows the slowing of testing because of criteria and process used by CDC.  Those are CDC decisions are they not?  Or is the President dictating to CDC what the criteria is?

This is why I keep asking the blame game stuff.  He is worthy of plenty of blame and so are endless other entities.  In this case some of you seem to want to blame him for an action caused by the  very department (CDC) you want calling the shots.  They are calling the shots on this topic and you are blaming him for the shots they have called.  Unless you have evidence that suggests he is the one slowing it down.  The article provided shows nothing of the kind.

I am not talking about CDC just recommending what others should do...I am talking about CDC being ordered by Trump to take the lead in doing what needs to be done.

Earlier I posted CDC’s summary of the actions it took in 2009. I am looking for similar actions this time, not just CDC making recommendations, with POTUS delegating responsibility to overburdened state and local public health departments to carry them out. This is a dereliction of duty (and a classic Trumpian deflection of responsibility).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 15, 2020, 07:03:27 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 15, 2020, 06:47:26 PM

Huh?

He’s actually getting goofier than Trump.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 15, 2020, 07:05:42 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 15, 2020, 07:03:27 PM

He’s actually getting goofier than Trump.

Hey maybe you and MU82 can tell everyone how to get back to work? You guys/girls are the experts, aina? Lol

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on April 15, 2020, 07:07:48 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 15, 2020, 07:05:42 PM

Hey maybe you and MU82 can tell everyone how to get back to work? You guys/girls are the experts, aina? Lol

Thought these were last days, why would you care about getting folks back to work?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 15, 2020, 07:12:33 PM

Quote from: reinko on April 15, 2020, 07:07:48 PM

Thought these were last days, why would you care about getting folks back to work?

Hey, when you've never had a significant other and when you are convinced you are about to die a virgin, you pretty much lose your mind. So BJ's obsessions are understandable.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 15, 2020, 07:14:05 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 15, 2020, 07:12:33 PM

Hey, when you've never had a significant other and when you are convinced you are about to die a virgin, you pretty much lose your mind. So BJ's obsessions are understandable.

Stick to facts, bub. Enjoy your stimulus check.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 15, 2020, 07:38:40 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 15, 2020, 07:24:52 PM

I'm not constantly mad at old and poor people.

I dislike MU82 and Jockey for many reasons, and find it ironic that they have been on the sidelines of the workforce for years based on a lot of their commentary. They are both bad people.

Cura personalis.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 15, 2020, 07:56:28 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 15, 2020, 07:05:42 PM

Hey maybe you and MU82 can tell everyone how to get back to work? You guys/girls are the experts, aina? Lol

Once again, this has been answered many times over in this thread. Reading comprehension much?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 15, 2020, 08:19:56 PM

Fox News contributor Bill Bennett offered perhaps the most high-profile comments on this in recent days, doubting this is even a “pandemic.”

“If you look at those numbers, and see the comparable, we’re going to have fewer fatalities from this than from the flu,” Bennett said, citing the latest projections. “For this, we scared the hell out of the American people, we lost 17 million jobs, we put a major dent in the economy, we closed down the schools … shut down the churches, and so on. You know, this was not and is not a pandemic.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/factcheck/6-zombie-claims-about-the-coronavirus-that-just-wont-go-away/ar-BB12GbF0?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=DELLDHP

Tom Tomorrow had it nailed

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 15, 2020, 08:22:32 PM

This could be good news.  Let’s get these blood tests going (at scale). 

 https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/492691-have-i-already-had-coronavirus-how-would-i-know (https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/492691-have-i-already-had-coronavirus-how-would-i-know)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lighthouse 84 on April 15, 2020, 08:28:30 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 15, 2020, 08:19:56 PM

Fox News contributor Bill Bennett offered perhaps the most high-profile comments on this in recent days, doubting this is even a “pandemic.”

“If you look at those numbers, and see the comparable, we’re going to have fewer fatalities from this than from the flu,” Bennett said, citing the latest projections. “For this, we scared the hell out of the American people, we lost 17 million jobs, we put a major dent in the economy, we closed down the schools … shut down the churches, and so on. You know, this was not and is not a pandemic.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/factcheck/6-zombie-claims-about-the-coronavirus-that-just-wont-go-away/ar-BB12GbF0?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=DELLDHP

Tom Tomorrow had it nailed

Same thing Anderson Cooper said March 4. Lots o’ people got it wrong, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 15, 2020, 08:28:44 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 15, 2020, 08:22:32 PM

This could be good news.  Let’s get these blood tests going (at scale). 

 https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/492691-have-i-already-had-coronavirus-how-would-i-know (https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/492691-have-i-already-had-coronavirus-how-would-i-know)

Mayo Clinic currently has capacity to run 10k of these per day.

https://www.medcitybeat.com/news-blog/2020/mayo-clinic-laboratories-capacity-10000-serologic-tests

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 15, 2020, 08:40:31 PM

Quote from: Mane'shouse 84 on April 15, 2020, 08:28:30 PM

Same thing Anderson Cooper said March 4. Lots o’ people got it wrong, hey?

March 4th

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 15, 2020, 09:22:20 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 15, 2020, 06:28:36 PM

Yes, the Prez is dictating what the CDC can and cannot do:
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/486475-trump-administration-overrode-health-officials-recommendation-that-elderly

Can you provide some evidence 6 weeks later as it pertains to this article on testing that the Prez is slowing the process? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 15, 2020, 09:38:16 PM

Quote from: Mane'shouse 84 on April 15, 2020, 08:28:30 PM

Same thing Anderson Cooper said March 4. Lots o’ people got it wrong, hey?

Yes, looking back at what he said on March 4th, Anderson Cooper certainly badly underestimated the coronavirus in thinking it wasn't as bad as the flu.  On March 4th.

Are you telling me that in all honesty what Bennett said, on April 15th, with all the evidence from all around the world, that this is just like the flu and social distancing/sheltering-in-place was unnecessary, you think those are the same thing? On April 15th?

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 26, 2020, 08:19:40 AM

I am absolutely convinced that this is what will happen. "See?  What was the big deal?  I told you it was all a hoax", completely ignoring that the social distancing and stay-at-home orders are what kept the numbers lower.  Wait for it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 15, 2020, 09:47:51 PM

Banned

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 15, 2020, 10:45:02 PM

Quote from: Mane'shouse 84 on April 15, 2020, 08:28:30 PM

Same thing Anderson Cooper said March 4. Lots o’ people got it wrong, hey?

It is important to accurately report what a person said. Anderson Cooper said that if you are worried about COVID, you should also worry about the flu, because at that point it was far more prevalent than COVID, and you can protect yourself from it via vaccine.

In a segment talking about the serious risks of COVID, he tried to encourage people to get a flu vaccine, by correctly pointing out that 15,000 had died from the flu that season, and you can do something about it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on April 15, 2020, 11:34:52 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 15, 2020, 09:47:51 PM

Banned

(https://media1.giphy.com/media/H99r2HtnYs492/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a1eb3de13a57d349dfa7cb9a6be056cc4898df8fd&rid=giphy.gif)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 15, 2020, 11:50:38 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 15, 2020, 09:22:20 PM

Can you provide some evidence 6 weeks later as it pertains to this article on testing that the Prez is slowing the process?

Well, if you don't understand that Trump is now driving the CDC messaging, I don't know what to tell you. Here's from March 29, though not about the specific topic you're demanding proof for...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/cdc-issues-travel-warning-new-york-states-trumps-quarantine-threat-2020-3%3famp

Quote

"On the recommendation of the White House CoronaVirus Task Force, and upon consultation with the Governor's of New York, New Jersey and Connecticut, I have asked the CDC to issue a strong Travel Advisory, to be administered by the Governors," the president tweeted.

So if he can request the CDC issue a travel advisory (and they complied), why could he not request they open up testing today? Makes no sense, right?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 16, 2020, 08:14:03 AM

Two part article about how statistical analysis shows we are probably underestimating the overall mortality of direct and indirect COVID deaths.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/more-on-excess-mortality-and-covid19s-hidden-toll
 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 16, 2020, 08:18:56 AM

This is a good article about Dr. Fauci & his relationship with his mentor.

 https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-mentor-who-made-dr-anthony-fauci-11587040520 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-mentor-who-made-dr-anthony-fauci-11587040520)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on April 16, 2020, 08:23:50 AM

Reuters is saying recovered South Koreans are re-testing positive for the virus.  That is not good.  Hopefully it is an anomaly of some sort.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 16, 2020, 08:28:03 AM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on April 16, 2020, 08:23:50 AM

Reuters is saying recovered South Koreans are re-testing positive for the virus.  That is not good.  Hopefully it is an anomaly of some sort.

True, but doctors there think it's far more likely a result of relapse than re-infection, which is important.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 16, 2020, 08:49:15 AM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on April 16, 2020, 08:23:50 AM

Reuters is saying recovered South Koreans are re-testing positive for the virus.  That is not good.  Hopefully it is an anomaly of some sort.

It's probably not. Contrary to popular belief, we do not really understand why some diseases are seasonal. It turns out the science doesn't really support "temperature and humidity" being a major factor.

What some data has shown is that for a small subset of the population, viruses can essentially go into hiding, and stay in some people. For unknown reasons, these viruses can remerge in a seasonal manner leading to respread of infections.

Now this isn't proven either (hence, not really understanding why some diseases are seasonal), but there is pretty strong evidence that these viruses can go into hiding. It was believed to be true for SARS also,. but there we didn't have 100's of thousands of infections. So the number of instances where that would have occurred is minimal, and we were able to snuff it out pretty quick.

If that is a mechanism of seasonal infection, we are going to have millions of infections, so a pretty large number of these "hidden and reactivated" infections. I'm afraid that, because of slow action, this one is definitely endemic. Hopefully we have longer term immunity (like SARS) and not very short immunity (MERS).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 16, 2020, 08:49:56 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 21, 2020, 08:04:30 AM

Elon Musk claims he'll be distributing 250K masks and 1K ventilators.  Hope this is real. Musk has a history of overly optimistic timelines, but good to see private citizens stepping in to fill the void.

https://cleantechnica.com/2020/03/21/elon-musk-should-have-1000-ventilators-next-week-250k-n95-masks-for-hospitals-tomorrow-cleantechnica-exclusive/

So yeah, Elon Musk...

Elon Musk Promised Ventilators. None of Them Showed Up

Tesla's CEO faces criticism over his bold promises. Why keeping your promise matters.

Elon Musk is no stranger to bold promises or controversy. They frequently travel together in his case. It shouldn't come as much of a surprise then that Musk is facing criticism for failing to live up to one of those bold promises. Except in this case, when you promise to deliver life-saving ventilators and you don't, it's more than simply controversial.

Over the past few weeks, Musk's public statements on ventilators have included statements that Tesla would manufacture them if needed, that he had purchased 1,000 "FDA approved ventilators," and that he had sent those to hospitals.

The problem is no hospitals have actually received ventilators from Musk or Tesla. Instead, some of what was donated and sent to hospitals were devices used to treat sleep apnea. Known as BiPAP machines, those devices don't force air directly into the lungs using a breathing tube--which is required for patients suffering from severe forms of Covid-19.

In addition, the California Governor's office has said none of the hospitals in that state have received any ventilators that were promised.

https://www.inc.com/jason-aten/elon-musk-promised-ventilators-none-showed-up.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 16, 2020, 08:51:43 AM

I'm shocked that Elon Musk's statements fall far short of reality!!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on April 16, 2020, 08:51:53 AM

Had a meeting yesterday where our covid protocols were brought up. From leadership, basically we have a few masks, shields and gowns that will be divided up when needed. Recycled and reused. This is of course for people with developmental and behavioral issues. So this comes with increased chances of infection for anyone servicing them.

When I brought up the facts that the only way one of our residents gets covid is if one of our staff has it, what's the protocol then? They asked me to elaborate...

If one staff is infected more staff is likely. Were already short staffed. Our dsps make 10 dollars an hour. When someone goes down, were going to see them drop like flies.

What is the protocol for when 80% of staff doesn't show. Crickets.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 16, 2020, 08:54:36 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 16, 2020, 08:51:43 AM

I'm shocked that Elon Musk's statements fall far short of reality!!!

Indeed, so out of character

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 16, 2020, 08:59:48 AM

...here we go...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 16, 2020, 09:03:12 AM

Yep.  People predicted this way before the quarantining began.  That people think we overreacted.

And like clockwork...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 16, 2020, 09:08:08 AM

NPR on the five things we need to do to safely reopen. Not surprisingly, huge increases in rapid testing capability and contact tracing are #1 and #2...both things for which CDC is uniquely qualified, but which in 2020 have gotten delegated (through negligence or intent, you decide) to state and private entities.

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/04/16/npr-whats-it-going-to-take-to-end-the-shutdown-5-keys-to-containing-coronavirus

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 16, 2020, 09:10:02 AM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 16, 2020, 08:59:48 AM

...here we go...

Is this going to affect how people vote in November (assuming mankind survives that long)?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 16, 2020, 09:18:41 AM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 16, 2020, 08:59:48 AM

...here we go...

So when I posted last night about Bill Bennett doing this exact thing, you ripped me. And now you post about it. LOL

#readingnomatta?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 16, 2020, 09:19:18 AM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on April 16, 2020, 08:51:53 AM

Had a meeting yesterday where our covid protocols were brought up. From leadership, basically we have a few masks, shields and gowns that will be divided up when needed. Recycled and reused. This is of course for people with developmental and behavioral issues. So this comes with increased chances of infection for anyone servicing them.

When I brought up the facts that the only way one of our residents gets covid is if one of our staff has it, what's the protocol then? They asked me to elaborate...

If one staff is infected more staff is likely. Were already short staffed. Our dsps make 10 dollars an hour. When someone goes down, were going to see them drop like flies.

What is the protocol for when 80% of staff doesn't show. Crickets.

Yup, you guys absolutely get the shaft.  What happens when you guys drop like flies is what happens in nursing homes in NJ when staff is overwhelmed.  People get abandoned and left sitting in their own feces like caged animals.

The guys at that meeting need to have a plan.  The alternative is that there is no home staff for folks, and they are left to fend for themselves... and probably die.  Tell them to calculate the lawsuits they'd be open to if there isn't adequate staffing.  Hopefully, legal counsel is in the room to hear what the upper management has to say.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 16, 2020, 09:22:20 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 16, 2020, 09:19:18 AM

Yup, you guys absolutely get the shaft.  What happens when you guys drop like flies is what happens in nursing homes in NJ when staff is overwhelmed.  People get abandoned and left sitting in their own feces like caged animals.

The guys at that meeting need to have a plan.  The alternative is that there is no home staff for folks, and they are left to fend for themselves... and probably die.  Tell them to calculate the lawsuits they'd be open to if there isn't adequate staffing.  Hopefully, legal counsel is in the room to hear what the upper management has to say.

Regarding the latter, the GOP is fighting to make all employers exempt from any lawsuits related to coronavirus infections. It is part of the phase 4 plan they are currently working on.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 16, 2020, 09:31:50 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 16, 2020, 09:19:18 AM

Yup, you guys absolutely get the shaft.  What happens when you guys drop like flies is what happens in nursing homes in NJ when staff is overwhelmed.  People get abandoned and left sitting in their own feces like caged animals.

The guys at that meeting need to have a plan.  The alternative is that there is no home staff for folks, and they are left to fend for themselves... and probably die.  Tell them to calculate the lawsuits they'd be open to if there isn't adequate staffing.  Hopefully, legal counsel is in the room to hear what the upper management has to say.

In my job, I work primarily with nursing homes.  Obviously, this is an absolute nightmare scenario for them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 16, 2020, 09:35:01 AM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 16, 2020, 09:31:50 AM

In my job, I work primarily with nursing homes.  Obviously, this is an absolute nightmare scenario for them.

And it's such a shame because my parents and mother-in-law moved into them because they (and we) thought they would be safer and more healthy there.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 16, 2020, 10:46:49 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEw5TelJ7Yk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEw5TelJ7Yk)

We need to evolve to a fact based discussion about how to control the virus.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 16, 2020, 10:55:11 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 16, 2020, 10:46:49 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEw5TelJ7Yk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEw5TelJ7Yk)

We need to evolve to a fact based discussion about how to control the virus.

Agreed. She is both a knowledgeable scientist, and a skilled politician. She knows how to simultaneously inform people, and not create hysteria, but rather an informed caution.

edit: Cuomo just did a brilliant job of walking through this same concept of where we are, where we need to be, and where other nations were when they successfully shut this down. He is proving to be a great communicator.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 16, 2020, 11:12:31 AM

NY extending stay at home another 2 weeks to May 15

#LastDays

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 16, 2020, 11:14:48 AM

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/rams-allen-first-nfl-player-to-test-positive-for-coronavirus-2020-04-16

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on April 16, 2020, 11:32:26 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 16, 2020, 09:35:01 AM

And it's such a shame because my parents and mother-in-law moved into them because they (and we) thought they would be safer and more healthy there.

It depends on the home they go to. Where I work I supervise younger developmentally challenged homes. (think 20s-40s) but we have quite a few older group homes.

I can tell you I'd never want to go there. They barley skate by on the regulations. And you can't do anything about it. Staff gets paid 10 dollars an hour. They rightfully dont care. We have a swinging door for the lowest rung of workers.

Unfortunately that swinging door is swinging one way. And when we have to few, people are going to die.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 16, 2020, 11:48:40 AM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on April 16, 2020, 08:51:53 AM

Had a meeting yesterday where our covid protocols were brought up. From leadership, basically we have a few masks, shields and gowns that will be divided up when needed. Recycled and reused. This is of course for people with developmental and behavioral issues. So this comes with increased chances of infection for anyone servicing them.

When I brought up the facts that the only way one of our residents gets covid is if one of our staff has it, what's the protocol then? They asked me to elaborate...

If one staff is infected more staff is likely. Were already short staffed. Our dsps make 10 dollars an hour. When someone goes down, were going to see them drop like flies.

What is the protocol for when 80% of staff doesn't show. Crickets.

That's pretty disturbing, UJ. Hopefully your alleged leaders shape up.

And you stay safe.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 16, 2020, 11:53:52 AM

Been a while since we have heard from those that do business with China, just curious if things are still on the upswing

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 16, 2020, 11:55:44 AM

We have food lines miles and miles long. People waiting overnight hoping to get food from food banks.

At the same time, we have farmers dumping milk, and plowing crops into the ground because the market for wholesale items for the food service industry is gone (shifted to home products).

Wouldn't it have been wise for the federal government to step in, promise funds to farmers and wholesale foods if they shifted their delivery to food banks?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on April 16, 2020, 11:56:30 AM

Quote from: MU82 on April 16, 2020, 11:48:40 AM

That's pretty disturbing, UJ. Hopefully your alleged leaders shape up.

And you stay safe.

Hopefully this pandemic forces their hands to give the lower employees a wage to actually care about their jobs (Or allow qualified individuals to be hired on) In the past they've been content to just throw out the old and bring in the new like Amazon does at warehouses.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 16, 2020, 12:47:47 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 16, 2020, 11:55:44 AM

We have food lines miles and miles long. People waiting overnight hoping to get food from food banks.

At the same time, we have farmers dumping milk, and plowing crops into the ground because the market for wholesale items for the food service industry is gone (shifted to home products).

Wouldn't it have been wise for the federal government to step in, promise funds to farmers and wholesale foods if they shifted their delivery to food banks?

Yes, it would be wise.

It makes no sense to have unemployed, underemployed, or furloughed workers who can't get food for their families while farmers are pouring perfectly good and healthy food down the drain.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 16, 2020, 12:50:47 PM

Some research is now showing that obesity is the most significant risk factor other than age for bad outcomes from COVID-19, while asthma is not as big a risk as previously thought.

Not final or peer reviewed, but pretty interesting....

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/16/us/coronavirus-cases-live-updates.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage#link-35b98df1

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on April 16, 2020, 12:54:18 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on April 16, 2020, 11:53:52 AM

Been a while since we have heard from those that do business with China, just curious if things are still on the upswing

Yep. They are being cautious given the global situation, but we have customers basically back to full operation. Actually unfortunately had an employee in our Shenzhen office leave the company cause she was moving back to her hometown to be closer to her family. And that was something she’s wanted to do since Chinese New Year but had to put on hold for many reasons.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 16, 2020, 12:55:08 PM

I guess the good news side of that is the under-representation of asthma.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 16, 2020, 12:59:22 PM

Facebook is prohibiting in-person events (50+ people) through June 2021.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/16/zuckerberg-facebook-canceling-large-events-through-june-2021.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 16, 2020, 01:02:17 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on April 16, 2020, 12:54:18 PM

Yep. They are being cautious given the global situation, but we have customers basically back to full operation. Actually unfortunately had an employee in our Shenzhen office leave the company cause she was moving back to her hometown to be closer to her family. And that was something she’s wanted to do since Chinese New Year but had to put on hold for many reasons.

Ditto.  My sister plant in Zhongshan is fully open.  No absences.  Pushing us to ship wire because they got backorder of superconductor orders for Chinese MRI manufacturers.
Spoke with my Singapore distributor yesterday.  He's been working from home the last 2 weeks but everything is pretty much humming along there.  He said Malaysia was supposed to open back up on time after a mandated government shutdown.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 16, 2020, 01:54:23 PM

Wisconsin and six other midwestern states entering a multi-state pact to manage this.  This looks like a good move.  My guess is all seven will be shut down through Memorial Day Tuesday.

https://twitter.com/CrainsChicago/status/1250848248694177792?s=20

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 16, 2020, 02:01:27 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 16, 2020, 12:50:47 PM

Some research is now showing that obesity is the most significant risk factor other than age for bad outcomes from COVID-19, while asthma is not as big a risk as previously thought.

Not final or peer reviewed, but pretty interesting....

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/16/us/coronavirus-cases-live-updates.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage#link-35b98df1

I was wondering when some data on this would emerge. It makes the most sense biochemically. The renin-angiotensin-aldosterone-system (RAAS) is tightly tied to ACE/ACE2 receptor function and regulation. The biochemical function and turnover of the ACE2 receptor is tied to this system and very dynamically regulated by obesity, metabolism, and diet.

How that system is misregulated in obesity models aligns well with how SARS-COV2 infects cells. It also has a strong male/female dichotomy.

It makes a lot of sense that obesity might be one of the highest co-morbitities, and possibly that poor diet/exercise is playing a signficant role in event mildly overweight patients. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 16, 2020, 02:57:30 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 16, 2020, 01:54:23 PM

Wisconsin and six other midwestern states entering a multi-state pact to manage this.  This looks like a good move.  My guess is all seven will be shut down through Memorial Day Tuesday.

https://twitter.com/CrainsChicago/status/1250848248694177792?s=20

I like these multi-state deals. They make sense, because Mr. Covid knows no borders. Plus, more ideas, more discussion, more viewpoints can only help IMHO.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on April 16, 2020, 03:35:04 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 16, 2020, 02:57:30 PM

I like these multi-state deals. They make sense, because Mr. Covid knows no borders. Plus, more ideas, more discussion, more viewpoints can only help IMHO.

Bets on how many Trump supporters are suddenly big supporters of the federal government's powers?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 16, 2020, 03:42:10 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 16, 2020, 02:57:30 PM

I like these multi-state deals. They make sense, because Mr. Covid knows no borders. Plus, more ideas, more discussion, more viewpoints can only help IMHO.

Agreed. As someone who lives in Minnesota, I just wish our neighbors to the south and west (Iowa and the Dakotas) were closed so they could reopen with us.

As an aside, I was watching the infection rates of MN and those states closely once Walz closed MN. At the time, all four (MN, ND, SD and IA) had modest rates of about 15 cases/100k residents. Since then, MN has risen slowly, while the rest have increased much faster. Today's rates:

MN: 32/100K
ND: 52/100K
IA: 63/100K
SD: 148/100K

So yeah, physical distancing really does make a difference and COVID really can still spread in rural states.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 16, 2020, 04:14:40 PM

Meanwhile at the Mayo Clinic....

Mayo Clinic’s Singing Surgeon, Dr. Elvis, Cuts EP To Aid COVID-19 Fund

https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020/04/16/mayo-clinics-singing-surgeon-dr-elvis-cuts-ep-to-aid-covid-19-fund/

Pretty incredible voice. Pretty awesome gesture.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Archies Bat on April 16, 2020, 04:30:01 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 16, 2020, 11:55:44 AM

We have food lines miles and miles long. People waiting overnight hoping to get food from food banks.

At the same time, we have farmers dumping milk, and plowing crops into the ground because the market for wholesale items for the food service industry is gone (shifted to home products).

Wouldn't it have been wise for the federal government to step in, promise funds to farmers and wholesale foods if they shifted their delivery to food banks?

For the first time in a couple of weeks, I'm starting to worry about food availability.  Ran into a grocery store today about 930AM.  Chicken and pork sold out.  Minimal beef left.  Bought a couple of turkey breasts just cause they had them.

But they had toilet paper.

I hope it was a short term issue.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 16, 2020, 04:30:46 PM

Quote from: GB Warrior on April 16, 2020, 03:35:04 PM

Bets on how many Trump supporters are suddenly big supporters of the federal government's powers?

Most Republicans like things done at the state level.  I love the idea of regional partnerships like this.

10th amendment, baby!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 16, 2020, 04:59:07 PM

Quote from: Archies Bat on April 16, 2020, 04:30:01 PM

For the first time in a couple of weeks, I'm starting to worry about food availability.  Ran into a grocery store today about 930AM.  Chicken and pork sold out.  Minimal beef left.  Bought a couple of turkey breasts just cause they had them.

But they had toilet paper.

I hope it was a short term issue.

I'm guessing it is either temporary or regional.

I shopped yesterday and meat counters were the fullest I've seen since the start of this. Only empty spots were cleaners and disinfectants.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on April 16, 2020, 05:42:25 PM

After hours stock market futures up big.  CNBC reporting that remdesivir is showing a lot of potential as a treatment.

Hope it is.  Would be huge.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 16, 2020, 05:47:37 PM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on April 16, 2020, 05:42:25 PM

After hours stock market futures up big.  CNBC reporting that remdesivir is showing a lot of potential as a treatment.

Hope it is.  Would be huge.

A bit more on the trials that are underway.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/16/early-peek-at-data-on-gilead-coronavirus-drug-suggests-patients-are-responding-to-treatment/

It would be awesome if the drug ends up being as good as it seems so far....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 16, 2020, 05:51:43 PM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on April 16, 2020, 05:42:25 PM

After hours stock market futures up big.  CNBC reporting that remdesivir is showing a lot of potential as a treatment.

Hope it is.  Would be huge.

DJIA futures up 33 atm...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 16, 2020, 05:55:07 PM

If the initial statistics leaked from the Chicago trial prove to be the norm in all of the studies, then we are one step closer.  Keep sciencing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 16, 2020, 06:08:22 PM

Quote from: tower912 on April 16, 2020, 05:55:07 PM

If the initial statistics leaked from the Chicago trial prove to be the norm in all of the studies, then we are one step closer.  Keep sciencing.

Yep. Good thing we didn’t just toss hydroxychloroquine at everyone and call it a day.

Science, not intuition, will ultimately provide the best answers....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 16, 2020, 06:34:43 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 16, 2020, 06:08:22 PM

Yep. Good thing we didn’t just toss hydroxychloroquine at everyone and call it a day.

Science, not intuition, will ultimately provide the best answers....

I'd shake your hand for saying that but ... you know.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 16, 2020, 06:49:08 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 16, 2020, 06:08:22 PM

Yep. Good thing we didn’t just toss hydroxychloroquine at everyone and call it a day.

Science, not intuition, will ultimately provide the best answers....

The science said the two most likely therapies to have success would be remdesivir and plasma. Both are looking promising.

The remdesivir results actually look far better than I'd imagined. I was hoping for moderate improvement in most cases. If the leaked results are accurate, that's a game changer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: DegenerateDish on April 16, 2020, 07:27:23 PM

Dow futures up 800 points on the Gilead news.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 16, 2020, 07:49:20 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 16, 2020, 05:51:43 PM

DJIA futures up 33 atm...

No. You were looking at closing prices.

Dow closed up 33 points today. Currently up 758 in after hours trading.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 16, 2020, 08:09:28 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 16, 2020, 07:49:20 PM

No. You were looking at closing prices.

Dow closed up 33 points today. Currently up 758 in after hours trading.

You are correct.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 16, 2020, 08:10:48 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 16, 2020, 08:09:28 PM

You are correct.

It’s OK. We wouldn’t expect you to understand this area

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 16, 2020, 08:15:13 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 16, 2020, 08:10:48 PM

It’s OK. We wouldn’t expect you to understand this area

I didn't think the nerve I struck with you would strike so close to home.

I've upset you to the point you're going to sweat me now too?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 16, 2020, 08:21:00 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 16, 2020, 06:08:22 PM

Yep. Good thing we didn’t just toss hydroxychloroquine at everyone and call it a day.

Science, not intuition, will ultimately provide the best answers....

"Dr" Oz. What a dipcrape

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 16, 2020, 08:24:24 PM

Quote from: tower912 on April 16, 2020, 05:55:07 PM

Keep sciencing.

I hope they keep sciencing their asses off.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 16, 2020, 08:49:04 PM

Apt

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 16, 2020, 08:51:08 PM

https://twitter.com/IvanTheK/status/1250960950955397120?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 16, 2020, 08:53:22 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 16, 2020, 06:08:22 PM

Yep. Good thing we didn’t just toss hydroxychloroquine at everyone and call it a day.

Suggested nobody ever.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on April 16, 2020, 08:58:41 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 16, 2020, 08:21:00 PM

"Dr" Oz. What a dipcrape

You can disagree with his “agenda” and his alternative medicine stuff is dumb, but dudes credentials are unimpeachable.  Always kind of annoys me when he’s written off as a moron. It’s not like he has his medical degree from an Eastern medicine teaching school in the Caribbean. Which I guess makes his random Trump support stuff even more bizarre given how respected he is in his field

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 16, 2020, 09:09:34 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 15, 2020, 11:50:38 PM

Well, if you don't understand that Trump is now driving the CDC messaging, I don't know what to tell you. Here's from March 29, though not about the specific topic you're demanding proof for...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/cdc-issues-travel-warning-new-york-states-trumps-quarantine-threat-2020-3%3famp
So if he can request the CDC issue a travel advisory (and they complied), why could he not request they open up testing today? Makes no sense, right?

I would expect the charge levied had data to support the charge.  Nothing. 

The travel advisory was put out by State Dept initially which the CDC also confirmed.  Dr Fauci said earlier this week that was the CDC’s call and an appropriate one.  He felt the info from China was not accurate or would have issued even earlier.  CDC issuing travel advisories is not against the norm.
In 2016 for the Zika virus with Obama presidency.  In 2018 CDC advisory for Honduras. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 16, 2020, 09:12:56 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on April 16, 2020, 08:58:41 PM

You can disagree with his “agenda” and his alternative medicine stuff is dumb, but dudes credentials are unimpeachable.  Always kind of annoys me when he’s written off as a moron. It’s not like he has his medical degree from an Eastern medicine teaching school in the Caribbean. Which I guess makes his random Trump support stuff even more bizarre given how respected he is in his field

Agreed on his credentials, but somewhere along the line he realized he could make a lot more money selling "magic" cures. He certainly isn't a moron, but has sort of become a sham.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/opinion/coronavirus-trump-dr-oz.html
"I’ve written about him a few times and kept an eye on him over the years, because back in 2010, when I was a staff writer for The New York Times Magazine, I was assigned an in-depth profile of Oz as a one-man wellness industry. He had just begun his TV show, and I spent hours hanging out with him on the set at 30 Rockefeller Plaza in Manhattan and elsewhere. I even stood just a few feet from him in an operating room at the NewYork-Presbyterian/Columbia University Medical Center in Manhattan as he performed open-heart surgery on a 74-year-old woman. I remember that the white pages of the notebook in which I was scribbling ended up splattered with little red dots.

"I also remember thinking again and again that the values of serious science and the values of television were perhaps incompatible. As I watched Oz and his producers try to sex up medicine for what they hoped would be many millions of daytime viewers, I watched him travel toward silliness.

"That journey accelerated over the ensuing years, as Oz became notorious for promoting unproven supplements and fad remedies and using words like “magic,” “miracle” and “revolutionary,” especially as they pertained to weight loss. Rudolph Leibel, an obesity expert at Columbia University Institute of Human Nutrition, once told me that Oz’s approach in this regard was just plain nutty.

“It’d be like if we went to NASA and they were using astrological charts to try to figure out how to get a rocket to Europa,” Leibel said.

"At one point, a group of 10 physicians wrote to Columbia University to urge it to sever its formal ties to Oz. At another, Oz was hauled before a Senate panel to defend some of his ludicrous weight-loss claims. At yet another, a study in The BMJ evaluated scores of his show’s medical recommendations and determined that more than half didn’t have sound scientific support.".

He basically promoted HCQ like another one of his miracle cures.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 16, 2020, 09:17:34 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 16, 2020, 08:53:22 PM

Suggested nobody ever.

Nobody sane, at least.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 16, 2020, 09:27:24 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on April 16, 2020, 08:58:41 PM

You can disagree with his “agenda” and his alternative medicine stuff is dumb, but dudes credentials are unimpeachable.  Always kind of annoys me when he’s written off as a moron. It’s not like he has his medical degree from an Eastern medicine teaching school in the Caribbean. Which I guess makes his random Trump support stuff even more bizarre given how respected he is in his field

His academic background is excellent, but he has long been working outside the bounds of mainstream medicine when he gets on the stage. Both the medical faculty at Columbia (and elsewhere) and the AMA Journal of Ethics have gone on record as being very concerned about his professionalism.

https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/case-dr-oz-ethics-evidence-and-does-professional-self-regulation-work/2017-02

https://www.nj.com/hudson/2015/04/poll_should_dr_oz_be_forced_to_resign_from_columbi.html

Knowledge used for good can be a tremendous thing. Knowledge used for self-promotion...well, you know.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 16, 2020, 09:32:30 PM

Our only hope is the ingenuity and greatness of the “big, bad pharma corps”. Thank goodness for capitalism to fight this Chinese virus!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HutchwasClutch on April 16, 2020, 09:33:56 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 16, 2020, 09:32:30 PM

Our only hope is the ingenuity and greatness of the “big, bad pharma corps”. Thank goodness for capitalism to fight this Chinese virus!

👍

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 16, 2020, 09:35:57 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 16, 2020, 09:32:30 PM

Our only hope is the ingenuity and greatness of the “big, bad pharma corps”.

Which is what people have been saying throughout this entire thread--that the end game is developing treatments in the short term until a vaccine can (hopefully) be developed in the long run.

#readingnomatta?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on April 16, 2020, 09:44:03 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 16, 2020, 09:27:24 PM

His academic background is excellent, but he has long been working outside the bounds of mainstream medicine when he gets on the stage. Both the medical faculty at Columbia (and elsewhere) and the AMA Journal of Ethics have gone on record as being very concerned about his professionalism.

https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/case-dr-oz-ethics-evidence-and-does-professional-self-regulation-work/2017-02

https://www.nj.com/hudson/2015/04/poll_should_dr_oz_be_forced_to_resign_from_columbi.html

Knowledge used for good can be a tremendous thing. Knowledge used for self-promotion...well, you know.

I’d argue his entire medical career outside of his show and Oprah is quite accomplished. One of my college friend’s cardiologist father was a colleague of his and said he’s easily one of the best surgeons he’s ever known. But I agree he’s latched on to the financial opportunities outside of that realm. And that’s worthy of  ::) I always find it funny when people need to act like he’s some whack job moron cause they don’t agree with him (not pointing fingers here)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 16, 2020, 10:15:42 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on April 16, 2020, 09:44:03 PM

I’d argue his entire medical career outside of his show and Oprah is quite accomplished. One of my college friend’s cardiologist father was a colleague of his and said he’s easily one of the best surgeons he’s ever known. But I agree he’s latched on to the financial opportunities outside of that realm. And that’s worthy of  ::) I always find it funny when people need to act like he’s some whack job moron cause they don’t agree with him (not pointing fingers here)

Agreed. But we aren’t talking about surgery; we’re talking about public statements about COVID and hydroxychloroquine...which puts it closer to Oprah than an OR.

Just a shame that his desire for fame is keeping him away from helping patients.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 16, 2020, 10:26:38 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 16, 2020, 09:09:34 PM

I would expect the charge levied had data to support the charge.  Nothing. 

The travel advisory was put out by State Dept initially which the CDC also confirmed.  Dr Fauci said earlier this week that was the CDC’s call and an appropriate one.  He felt the info from China was not accurate or would have issued even earlier.  CDC issuing travel advisories is not against the norm.
In 2016 for the Zika virus with Obama presidency.  In 2018 CDC advisory for Honduras.

LOL.  You didn't even click my link.  You're talking about the wrong travel restriction.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 16, 2020, 10:43:05 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 16, 2020, 09:17:34 PM

Nobody sane, at least.

Source for the insane you think suggested it, please.

I know. You were being hyperbolic. A lot of that from those here who claim to be the science lovers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 16, 2020, 11:19:12 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 16, 2020, 10:43:05 PM

Source for the insane you think suggested it, please.

I know. You were being hyperbolic. A lot of that from those here who claim to be the science lovers.

You know who I’m talking about.

Hyperbole by an anonymous poster on a message board is different from a President with a known disdain for science touting his “intuition” in the midst of a crisis. People are desperate and vulnerable; he should know better.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 16, 2020, 11:23:40 PM

Germany is dominating testing right now and that's leading to good prognosis for getting back to normal life.

Singapore explosion of cases is worrying after seemingly having the situation under control.

I'm beginning to think every country is fudging numbers in a significant way.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 16, 2020, 11:44:55 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 16, 2020, 11:23:40 PM

Germany is dominating testing right now and that's leading to good prognosis for getting back to normal life.

Singapore explosion of cases is worrying after seemingly having the situation under control.

I'm beginning to think every country is fudging numbers in a significant way.

Some intentionally - China.
Some because of a lack of testing - U.S.
Some for both reasons.

Besides Singapore, China is also seeing an increase.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 16, 2020, 11:51:13 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 16, 2020, 08:51:08 PM

https://twitter.com/IvanTheK/status/1250960950955397120?s=19

Same for his business task force (some companies weren't even notified they were on it). One more entity upon whom to shift the blame.

"I don't take responsibility at all". He wasn't kidding.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 17, 2020, 05:21:24 AM

This is a pretty cool tool that has state data.  Including court info on case acceleration/deceleration. 

 https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/world/europe/united-kingdom-coronavirus-cases.html (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/world/europe/united-kingdom-coronavirus-cases.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 17, 2020, 07:06:32 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on April 16, 2020, 09:44:03 PM

I’d argue his entire medical career outside of his show and Oprah is quite accomplished. One of my college friend’s cardiologist father was a colleague of his and said he’s easily one of the best surgeons he’s ever known. But I agree he’s latched on to the financial opportunities outside of that realm. And that’s worthy of  ::) I always find it funny when people need to act like he’s some whack job moron cause they don’t agree with him (not pointing fingers here)

That's neat, but every day he walks out on his show and recommends magic beans and other crap to highly suggestible people he is basically taking a dump on his Hippocratic oath.

That's why he is hard to respect.  He is a business man loaded with medical credentials peddling crap to stupid people.  And now he has hitched his wagon to Fox News.  He's a snake oil salesman and deserve the disdain he has earned from his colleagues.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 17, 2020, 07:36:40 AM

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-52319956

Our top story: China has denied a cover-up over its coronavirus death figures after it revised up the number who died in the city of Wuhan, where the virus first emerged, by 50% to 3,869.

Still too low.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 17, 2020, 07:41:51 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 17, 2020, 07:36:40 AM

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-52319956

Our top story: China has denied a cover-up over its coronavirus death figures after it revised up the number who died in the city of Wuhan, where the virus first emerged, by 50% to 3,869.

Still too low.

I agree.  Wuhan is as big as NYC.  Just no way the magnitude was where they reported based on what we know now. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 17, 2020, 09:02:33 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 17, 2020, 05:21:24 AM

This is a pretty cool tool that has state data.  Including court info on case acceleration/deceleration. 

 https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/world/europe/united-kingdom-coronavirus-cases.html (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/world/europe/united-kingdom-coronavirus-cases.html)

I like that for the state-level data...and for the fact that it shows both raw numbers and numbers per 100k people. The latter helps to dispel the fallacy that the virus isn't spreading in sparsely populated states, where the numbers might be small but the case rate per 100k is higher.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 17, 2020, 09:09:20 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 17, 2020, 07:41:51 AM

I agree.  Wuhan is as big as NYC.  Just no way the magnitude was where they reported based on what we know now.

There are two other big differences.

1) In Wuhan, everything was locked down. And I mean locked down. No going anywhere. In NYC there was a lot of "essential businesses" that still had people taking public transportation to and from work/stores, and people just ignoring orders. None of that occurred in Wuhan, which led the R0 there to be around 0.2 (not 0.9 as is the current best in NYC).

2) People that tested positive were put into makeshift hospitals right away and isolated from family/others.

3) In NYC initial inoculation was distributed across multiple individuals in significantly different areas of the city. Would encourage increased spread.

The question is how much could this reasonably have affected things. It would have had massive effects though. Also, how much infection had spread in Wuhan before they even knew about it. We honestly will never know.

My guess on the reality. The Wuhan numbers are actually likely 1.5-2x higher than reported. Just saw that Wuhan deaths were increased by EXACTLY 50%. That seems suspicious...too round of a number.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 17, 2020, 09:18:07 AM

Japan to State of Emergency. There’s just no current way out. #WeDone

Only Q us when do we see widespread looting, riots, suicides, bodies on streets? It’s coming. 

#LastDays

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 17, 2020, 09:26:46 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 16, 2020, 08:51:08 PM

https://twitter.com/IvanTheK/status/1250960950955397120?s=19

Whether it was Hannity or Miller or Meadows or Graham or Ivanka or ???, somebody convinced the emperor to stop screaming that he "alone" could open the country (because of that little document known as the Constitution).

That person (or those people) deserves a lot of credit, because this actually is one of the few very smart things this administration has done during this crisis.

Now, if the NC governor opens up the state and the shyte hits the fan, it is the governor's fault. And if the NC governor waits too long after the threat has passed and lets companies go out of business, it is also the governor's fault.

This absolutely gives the emperor some political cover, as well as something to scream about when he can start holding rallies again.

Who is not to blame?

TRUMP!

Who do we blame?

THE GOVERNORS!

I seriously believe it was a shrewd political move, even if several of the emperor's handlers had to tie him down and force him to understand it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on April 17, 2020, 09:31:05 AM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 17, 2020, 09:18:07 AM

Japan to State of Emergency. There’s just no current way out. #WeDone

Only Q us when do we see widespread looting, riots, suicides, bodies on streets? It’s coming. 

#LastDays

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/a8f5088e796f9436f24c85a9e2fa1644/tenor.gif?itemid=14780495)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on April 17, 2020, 09:39:16 AM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 17, 2020, 09:18:07 AM

Japan to State of Emergency. There’s just no current way out. #WeDone

Only Q us when do we see widespread looting, riots, suicides, bodies on streets? It’s coming. 

#LastDays

#STFU

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on April 17, 2020, 09:41:43 AM

Quote from: MU82 on April 17, 2020, 09:26:46 AM

Whether it was Hannity or Miller or Meadows or Graham or Ivanka or ???, somebody convinced the emperor to stop screaming that he "alone" could open the country (because of that little document known as the Constitution).

That person (or those people) deserves a lot of credit, because this actually is one of the few very smart things this administration has done during this crisis.

Now, if the NC governor opens up the state and the shyte hits the fan, it is the governor's fault. And if the NC governor waits too long after the threat has passed and lets companies go out of business, it is also the governor's fault.

This absolutely gives the emperor some political cover, as well as something to scream about when he can start holding rallies again.

Who is not to blame?

TRUMP!

Who do we blame?

THE GOVERNORS!

I seriously believe it was a shrewd political move, even if several of the emperor's handlers had to tie him down and force him to understand it.

Which is why it's also smart for governors to form pacts to defray as well. Ultimately, governors need to continue ring the bell that all uncertainty is due to a lack of federal response (still!) to testing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 17, 2020, 09:57:06 AM

Quote from: forgetful on April 17, 2020, 09:09:20 AM

1) In Wuhan, everything was locked down. And I mean locked down. No going anywhere.

Not quite everything. They were still actively and knowingly exporting the virus to the rest of the world.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on April 17, 2020, 10:02:43 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 17, 2020, 09:57:06 AM

Not quite everything. They were still actively and knowingly exporting the virus to the rest of the world.

And what used to be the world power were still telling people that they were handling that active export of the virus just great, that there will be a miracle when the weather warms up, that the country will be open by Easter, and that we’ll have 0 cases by April.

Terrible mishandling by both sides.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 17, 2020, 10:05:16 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 17, 2020, 09:57:06 AM

Not quite everything. They were still actively and knowingly exporting the virus to the rest of the world.

Yup.   Plenty of blame to go around.    The only places coming close to succeeding have had social isolation, plenty of supplies and endless testing.     Keep sciencing and using best practices. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 17, 2020, 10:12:58 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 17, 2020, 09:57:06 AM

Not quite everything. They were still actively and knowingly exporting the virus to the rest of the world.

If, indeed, Wuhan was "knowingly exporting the virus" here, their leaders must have been freakin' delighted that our leader was ignoring most red flags, lying to his citizens over and over and over and over (and over) again, screaming at rallies about Dem hoaxes, and proclaiming that it was just like the common flu.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 17, 2020, 10:16:31 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 17, 2020, 09:57:06 AM

Not quite everything. They were still actively and knowingly exporting the virus to the rest of the world.

"Exporting the virus" makes it sound so transactional.  Does that mean we were "importing the virus" while Nero fiddled?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 17, 2020, 10:23:13 AM

Quote from: wadesworld on April 17, 2020, 10:02:43 AM

And what used to be the world power were still telling people that they were handling that active export of the virus just great, that there will be a miracle when the weather warms up, that the country will be open by Easter, and that we’ll have 0 cases by April.

Terrible mishandling by both sides.

Moral equivalency for (probably accidentally) creating and then knowingly exporting a killer virus (while protecting your own citizens) and doing a less than perfect job of dealing with one that was sent to you(Spain, Italy, USA, the entire world)? Really?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 17, 2020, 10:24:30 AM

Quote from: forgetful on April 17, 2020, 09:09:20 AM

There are two other big differences.

1) In Wuhan, everything was locked down. And I mean locked down. No going anywhere. In NYC there was a lot of "essential businesses" that still had people taking public transportation to and from work/stores, and people just ignoring orders. None of that occurred in Wuhan, which led the R0 there to be around 0.2 (not 0.9 as is the current best in NYC).

2) People that tested positive were put into makeshift hospitals right away and isolated from family/others.

3) In NYC initial inoculation was distributed across multiple individuals in significantly different areas of the city. Would encourage increased spread.

The question is how much could this reasonably have affected things. It would have had massive effects though. Also, how much infection had spread in Wuhan before they even knew about it. We honestly will never know.

My guess on the reality. The Wuhan numbers are actually likely 1.5-2x higher than reported. Just saw that Wuhan deaths were increased by EXACTLY 50%. That seems suspicious...too round of a number.

Wuhan had 'unknown' spread for Dec & Jan--so your comment is more about once they responded. 

NYC had 'unknown spread' essentially end Jan, Feb and early Mar. before lock down.  So same time duration -- ~2 months. 

Unlike some here trying to extrapolate things to policies, reactions, etc, my comment is just about numbers and based on us seeing the virus spread in multiple areas unchecked (like wuhan) they are too low to be real.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 17, 2020, 10:30:31 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 17, 2020, 10:16:31 AM

"Exporting the virus" makes it sound so transactional.  Does that mean we were "importing the virus" while Nero fiddled?

They locked Wuhan down from the rest of China. But not from the rest of the world. They knew what they were “exporting”. The rest of the world (early on) had no idea what they were “importing”. If we knew exactly what we were “importing” why was Trump’s travel ban from China met with hostility and cries of racism and xenophobia?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 17, 2020, 10:33:36 AM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 17, 2020, 09:18:07 AM

Japan to State of Emergency. There’s just no current way out. #WeDone

Only Q us when do we see widespread looting, riots, suicides, bodies on streets? It’s coming. 

#LastDays

Live look-in at JB
(https://www.speakgif.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/scared-child-ANIMATED-GIF.gif)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 17, 2020, 10:35:22 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 17, 2020, 10:30:31 AM

They locked Wuhan down from the rest of China. But not from the rest of the world. They knew what they were “exporting”. The rest of the world (early on) had no idea what they were “importing”. If we knew exactly what we were “importing” why was Trump’s travel ban from China met with hostility and cries of racism and xenophobia?

Lenny - Dont you think the last part is hyperbolic?  I mean you can find people supporting or whining about anything, but the travel ban has been one of the Presidents least controversial decisions on this topic.  Many corporations had already deployed this ban (and quarantining employees who were in China in Early Jan) weeks ahead as well...so really not that surprising.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 17, 2020, 10:37:03 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 17, 2020, 10:30:31 AM

They locked Wuhan down from the rest of China. But not from the rest of the world. They knew what they were “exporting”. The rest of the world (early on) had no idea what they were “importing”. If we knew exactly what we were “importing” why was Trump’s travel ban from China met with hostility and cries of racism and xenophobia?

Look Lenny, it was met with xenophobia and cries of racism by idiots.  You know and I know it.  I'm a pretty liberal guy, and I applauded the measure of closing borders because it was the most logical thing to do at the time.  But please stop pretending like the criticism of the travel ban was wide spread.

And do you honestly think that China intentionally, and maliciously spread this virus around the world?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on April 17, 2020, 10:50:50 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 17, 2020, 10:23:13 AM

Moral equivalency for (probably accidentally) creating and then knowingly exporting a killer virus (while protecting your own citizens) and doing a less than perfect job of dealing with one that was sent to you(Spain, Italy, USA, the entire world)? Really?

Less than perfect? 

Hilarious.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 17, 2020, 11:05:01 AM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 17, 2020, 09:18:07 AM

Japan to State of Emergency. There’s just no current way out.

Despite the rest of the post - and replies to it.  This is actually a pretty big deal.  Japan has a very high percentage of people that wear masks - even for common everyday things.  So the fact that they're seeing a high rate of spread - for a droplet born pathogen - in a mask wearing county = bad.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 17, 2020, 11:11:14 AM

Quote from: MU82 on April 17, 2020, 10:12:58 AM

If, indeed, Wuhan was "knowingly exporting the virus" here, their leaders must have been freakin' delighted that our leader was ignoring most red flags, lying to his citizens over and over and over and over (and over) again, screaming at rallies about Dem hoaxes, and proclaiming that it was just like the common flu.

Dude/dudette, try to reign it in a bit. I know you dont have to follow the rules here that many of us have to, but it’s over the top. Sad!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 17, 2020, 11:18:19 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 17, 2020, 09:57:06 AM

Not quite everything. They were still actively and knowingly exporting the virus to the rest of the world.

You think China intentionally spread the virus around the world?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 17, 2020, 11:18:36 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 17, 2020, 10:24:30 AM

Wuhan had 'unknown' spread for Dec & Jan--so your comment is more about once they responded. 

NYC had 'unknown spread' essentially end Jan, Feb and early Mar. before lock down.  So same time duration -- ~2 months. 

Unlike some here trying to extrapolate things to policies, reactions, etc, my comment is just about numbers and based on us seeing the virus spread in multiple areas unchecked (like wuhan) they are too low to be real.

The problem is, you cannot say they are too low to be real, unless you also consider policies and reactions. The reason is this, you are right, that there was a similar amount of 'unknown spread' up until things were locked down. So if the lock downs were equivalent, we'd expect the same numbers of cases/deaths.

They were not equivalent.

The police state in Wuhan was able to rapidly decrease the R0 to around 0.2-0.4. That means you have to have 3-5 cases to have each new case.

The difference in policies in NYC, only recently was able to decrease R0 below 1, most of the time it was in the 1.4-2 range. That means for most of the lockdown, each case was generating 1.4-2 new infections. Only recently has that got to the point that less than 1 new case for each infection.

The result is NYC was in exponential growth longer, and should have expected dramatically higher case counts.

I'm honestly not faulting anyone there. We are not a police state, nor should we be one. But the fact is, that the police state was able to have a greater impact on R0, and then should have significantly fewer cases. That's just science. Still think there are aspects of China's numbers that are BS, but I don't think they are off considerably.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 17, 2020, 11:21:19 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 17, 2020, 09:57:06 AM

Not quite everything. They were still actively and knowingly exporting the virus to the rest of the world.

Serious question, because I don't know the answer. How much of that travel you are referring to were expats returning to their home of residence?

All nations directed that their citizens/nationals need to be able to return from Wuhan. So China could not cease all travel, because the international community did not permit it. Even our "ban" was not a ban, US nationals were allowed to travel.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 17, 2020, 12:00:12 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 17, 2020, 11:11:14 AM

Dude/dudette, try to reign it in a bit. I know you dont have to follow the rules here that many of us have to, but it’s over the top. Sad!

There are no rules because, according to at least one Scooper, we're all gonna die.

Like we used to say to our kids when they were trying to boss each other around: "Jay Bee worry about Jay Bee."

Have a nice day, and stay well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 17, 2020, 12:05:16 PM

Quote from: GB Warrior on April 17, 2020, 09:41:43 AM

Which is why it's also smart for governors to form pacts to defray as well. Ultimately, governors need to continue ring the bell that all uncertainty is due to a lack of federal response (still!) to testing.

They're not only forming pacts but also holding the feds to the promises that the feds made.

For example, our governor here in NC, said this after a conference call with Trump, Pence and other governors:

“I laid out what’s required for North Carolina’s path to gradual re-opening, and it’s good the White House has shared similar guidance, but we still need the federal government to help with testing and personal protective equipment."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 17, 2020, 12:57:59 PM

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/17/us/coronavirus-updates.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20200417&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=25406&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

Trump on Friday began openly fomenting far-right protests of social distancing restrictions in states where groups of his conservative supporters have been violating stay-at-home orders, less than a day after announcing guidelines for how governors could decide on an orderly reopening of their communities.

In a series of all-caps tweets, Mr. Trump declared “LIBERATE MICHIGAN!” and “LIBERATE MINNESOTA!” — two states whose Democratic governors have imposed social distancing restrictions that have shut down businesses and schools and forced people to remain at home. He also tweeted “LIBERATE VIRGINIA, and save your great 2nd Amendment. It is under siege!”

Mr. Trump’s tweets were a remarkable example of a president egging on demonstrators.

Earlier this week, more than 1,000 protesters organized by conservative groups created a traffic jam on the streets around the State Capitol in Lansing, to complain that the restrictions were bad for small businesses. Other protesters, not in vehicles, waved banners in support of Mr. Trump and protested Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, who has been a target of Mr. Trump’s ire, by chanting, “Lock her up.”

In St. Paul, Minnesota, a group calling itself “Liberate Minnesota” has scheduled a protest in violation of stay-at-home orders in front of the home of Gov. Tim Walz and claims that 500 people are likely to show up. The group’s Facebook page says that “now is the time to demand Governor Walz and our state legislators end this lock down!”

Mr. Trump’s tweets began just moments after a Fox News report by Mike Tobin, a reporter for the network, about protests in Minnesota and elsewhere. The report featured a protester from Virginia saying “those of us who are healthy and want to get out of our house and do business, we need to get this going again. It’s time.”

The message of support for those efforts from Mr. Trump is radically different from the one he delivered from the White House on Thursday evening. During a briefing for reporters, the president unveiled guidelines that governors could use to decide when it was safe to phase out restrictions to minimize the chance of a resurgence of the dangerous pathogen.

Dangerous. Dishonest. Disingenuous.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 17, 2020, 01:29:10 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 17, 2020, 12:57:59 PM

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/17/us/coronavirus-updates.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20200417&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=25406&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa


He also tweeted “LIBERATE VIRGINIA, and save your great 2nd Amendment. It is under siege!”

We're just gonna shoot that dang coronavirus straight to h@ll.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 17, 2020, 01:43:12 PM

Florida updates:

- Rich residents of an island get their own test for themselves and their workers: https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/16/us/fisher-island-miami-coronavirus-antibody-testing/index.html

- Florida beaches will reopen beginning this evening.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on April 17, 2020, 01:43:22 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 17, 2020, 12:57:59 PM

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/17/us/coronavirus-updates.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20200417&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=25406&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

Trump on Friday began openly fomenting far-right protests of social distancing restrictions in states where groups of his conservative supporters have been violating stay-at-home orders, less than a day after announcing guidelines for how governors could decide on an orderly reopening of their communities.

In a series of all-caps tweets, Mr. Trump declared “LIBERATE MICHIGAN!” and “LIBERATE MINNESOTA!” — two states whose Democratic governors have imposed social distancing restrictions that have shut down businesses and schools and forced people to remain at home. He also tweeted “LIBERATE VIRGINIA, and save your great 2nd Amendment. It is under siege!”

Mr. Trump’s tweets were a remarkable example of a president egging on demonstrators.

Earlier this week, more than 1,000 protesters organized by conservative groups created a traffic jam on the streets around the State Capitol in Lansing, to complain that the restrictions were bad for small businesses. Other protesters, not in vehicles, waved banners in support of Mr. Trump and protested Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, who has been a target of Mr. Trump’s ire, by chanting, “Lock her up.”

In St. Paul, Minnesota, a group calling itself “Liberate Minnesota” has scheduled a protest in violation of stay-at-home orders in front of the home of Gov. Tim Walz and claims that 500 people are likely to show up. The group’s Facebook page says that “now is the time to demand Governor Walz and our state legislators end this lock down!”

Mr. Trump’s tweets began just moments after a Fox News report by Mike Tobin, a reporter for the network, about protests in Minnesota and elsewhere. The report featured a protester from Virginia saying “those of us who are healthy and want to get out of our house and do business, we need to get this going again. It’s time.”

The message of support for those efforts from Mr. Trump is radically different from the one he delivered from the White House on Thursday evening. During a briefing for reporters, the president unveiled guidelines that governors could use to decide when it was safe to phase out restrictions to minimize the chance of a resurgence of the dangerous pathogen.

Dangerous. Dishonest. Disingenuous.

Impressive displays of stupidity all around.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 17, 2020, 01:44:03 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 17, 2020, 10:37:03 AM

Look Lenny, it was met with xenophobia and cries of racism by idiots.  You know and I know it.  I'm a pretty liberal guy, and I applauded the measure of closing borders because it was the most logical thing to do at the time.  But please stop pretending like the criticism of the travel ban was wide spread.

Quote from: forgetful on April 17, 2020, 11:21:19 AM

Serious question, because I don't know the answer. How much of that travel you are referring to were expats returning to their home of residence?

All nations directed that their citizens/nationals need to be able to return from Wuhan. So China could not cease all travel, because the international community did not permit it. Even our "ban" was not a ban, US nationals were allowed to travel.

Most of the criticism was for two reasons:
1. It was too late. All US carriers had already stopped flying by the time the ban was issued.
2. It only included  Chinese nationals. Everyone else was allowed into the US. A total of over 40,000 people, including from the hardest hit areas in China. That is where the racism criticism came in.  And there was no plan in place to quarantine or even test those people arriving from China. Obviously, they could not prevent US citizens from coming home, but they should have at least had a plan in place to mitigate the spread from those people.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 17, 2020, 01:47:30 PM

So now that POTUS has declared this a problem for states to solve, there's no need for a daily COVID campaign rally in the rose garden, right?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 17, 2020, 01:57:50 PM

Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on April 17, 2020, 01:43:22 PM

Impressive displays of stupidity all around.

(https://scontent.fmia1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/93322025_2803544426361538_6641099138559639552_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=76Q_G7sRfzoAX8J8sxp&_nc_ht=scontent.fmia1-2.fna&oh=b20486b98d03c9e63557dcb2cdf65792&oe=5EBF61F2)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on April 17, 2020, 02:15:14 PM

We need to stop calling it a travel ban, as stated it was never a ban, tens of thousands of people entered the country after the ‘ban’.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 17, 2020, 02:49:24 PM

Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on April 17, 2020, 01:43:22 PM

Impressive displays of stupidity all around.

Yesterday, President Pandemic stood in front of all American citizens and presented the guidelines and milestones necessary for states to start "re-opening."

Today, he told extremists to protest that their states weren't open already -- guidelines and milestones be damned.

Also, interesting that he wasn't too interested in these protests:

Not all the protests were aimed at Democratic governors: In Ohio, around 100 protesters gathered outside the Statehouse during an appearance by Gov. Mike DeWine, a Republican. And in St. George, Utah, demonstrators showed up with signs reading “Resist like it’s 1776” and “America will never be a socialist country,” after the Republican governor, Gary Herbert, instructed residents to stay at home.

Where were the LIBERATE OHIO and LIBERATE UTAH twits?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 17, 2020, 04:05:09 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 17, 2020, 02:49:24 PM

Yesterday, President Pandemic stood in front of all American citizens and presented the guidelines and milestones necessary for states to start "re-opening."

Today, he told extremists to protest that their states weren't open already -- guidelines and milestones be damned.

Also, interesting that he wasn't too interested in these protests:

Not all the protests were aimed at Democratic governors: In Ohio, around 100 protesters gathered outside the Statehouse during an appearance by Gov. Mike DeWine, a Republican. And in St. George, Utah, demonstrators showed up with signs reading “Resist like it’s 1776” and “America will never be a socialist country,” after the Republican governor, Gary Herbert, instructed residents to stay at home.

Where were the LIBERATE OHIO and LIBERATE UTAH twits?

I'm just glad the Utah patriots brought up socialism. That's what Covid is all about ::)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 17, 2020, 04:07:40 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 17, 2020, 04:05:09 PM

I'm just glad the Utah patriots brought up socialism. That's what Covid is all about ::)

Did they buy their sign materials with their stimulus checks?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 17, 2020, 04:22:46 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 17, 2020, 04:07:40 PM

Did they buy their sign materials with their stimulus checks?

I'm a little slow today, T. I had to read that twice ;D

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 17, 2020, 04:30:15 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 17, 2020, 10:37:03 AM

Look Lenny, it was met with xenophobia and cries of racism by idiots.  You know and I know it.  I'm a pretty liberal guy, and I applauded the measure of closing borders because it was the most logical thing to do at the time.  But please stop pretending like the criticism of the travel ban was wide spread.

This is exactly correct. The Fox News spin that Trump was ahead of the game when he boldly called for travel restrictions that the media and Democrats called racist has no basis in reality. The move was neither bold nor early, and other than a very few on the fringe, there were no cries of racism.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/mar/27/donald-trump/fact-checking-whether-biden-called-trump-xenophobi/

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/the-facts-on-trumps-travel-restrictions/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 17, 2020, 05:04:05 PM

The latest Pew poll shows that nearly 2/3rds of Americans polled say Trump was too slow in his initial response to the coronavirus threat. Also, almost the exact same majority of Americans polled say they are more concerned that governments will lift COVID-19 related restrictions too quickly than they are that restrictions will not be lifted quickly enough ...

https://www.people-press.org/2020/04/16/most-americans-say-trump-was-too-slow-in-initial-response-to-coronavirus-threat/?campaign_id=56&emc=edit_cn_20200417&instance_id=17722&nl=on-politics-with-lisa-lerer&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=25379&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

Notable in the above is that even the majority of Republicans polled (51%) worry about governments being too quick to end restrictions.

Meanwhile, here's a fun little skirmish between Trump and Cuomo ...

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2020/04/17/in-trump-cuomo-spat-on-coronavirus-the-gloves-come-off/24016749/?a_dgi=aolshare_facebook&fbclid=IwAR1Rz0hvD24_5yC3P75y25qcCLAJ07z5U6L5g0wvoEoZQKTBUGD_YL8ks1Y

The most fun part of Trump's tweet was the one in which he told Cuomo: "Your numbers are not good."

Of course ... do I even have to tell anybody? ... Cuomo's approval ratings are considerably higher than Trump's. I mean, it's not even close.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/approval_rating/governor/ny/governor_cuomo_job_approval-3502.html

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 17, 2020, 05:54:17 PM

I am not a big fan of POTUS delegating this entirely to the states, but once he did this I wish he would stick to it. But he can't help himself. Yesterday, "states can decide." Today, "LIBERATE MICHIGAN!!," "LIBERATE MINNESOTA!!," "LIBERATE VIRGINIA!!"

So does he want states to follow his deliberate 3-phase plan, or not?

Don't his supporters see the inherent inconsistency in these messages?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 17, 2020, 06:10:46 PM

Nope.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 17, 2020, 07:19:13 PM

Well it seems this is just going to be another thing we have to deal with. 

 https://www.wsj.com/articles/south-koreas-new-coronavirus-twist-recovered-patients-test-positive-again-11587145248 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/south-koreas-new-coronavirus-twist-recovered-patients-test-positive-again-11587145248)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 17, 2020, 07:43:58 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 17, 2020, 07:19:13 PM

Well it seems this is just going to be another thing we have to deal with. 

 https://www.wsj.com/articles/south-koreas-new-coronavirus-twist-recovered-patients-test-positive-again-11587145248 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/south-koreas-new-coronavirus-twist-recovered-patients-test-positive-again-11587145248)

“Haven’t u read the thread, wah wah wah”

#LastDays

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 17, 2020, 07:46:01 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 17, 2020, 07:43:58 PM

“Haven’t u read the thread, wah wah wah”

#LastDays

I have

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 17, 2020, 08:09:38 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 17, 2020, 10:35:22 AM

Lenny - Dont you think the last part is hyperbolic?  I mean you can find people supporting or whining about anything, but the travel ban has been one of the Presidents least controversial decisions on this topic.  Many corporations had already deployed this ban (and quarantining employees who were in China in Early Jan) weeks ahead as well...so really not that surprising.

Hyperbolic? True. Hyperbolic political rants took over and ruined this thread a long, long time ago. Almost all from the same bias. Apologies for contributing to the sh!t show.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 17, 2020, 08:12:32 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 17, 2020, 08:09:38 PM

Hyperbolic? True. Hyperbolic political rants took over and ruined this thread a long, long time ago. Almost all from the same bias. Apologies for contributing to the sh!t show.

Sorry I find you to be reasonable and fact based person. So it took my off guard.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 17, 2020, 08:16:44 PM

I recommend stocking up on non-perishable food. The shortages and insanity will come along soon. Jah Bless.

#LastDays

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 17, 2020, 08:45:40 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 17, 2020, 08:12:32 PM

Sorry I find you to be reasonable and fact based person. So it took my off guard.

Thanks, Frenns. Not falling off the deep end intentionally. I’m self prescribing a couple of days away from this thread in hopes of regaining my equilibrium.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 17, 2020, 09:35:04 PM

The way out of this is through testing, tracing, treatment and a vaccine.... thus far, it feels our accomplishments are none and we have no answers Re: strength of antibodies and such.

We are completely screwed.

#LastDays

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on April 17, 2020, 10:00:59 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 17, 2020, 08:16:44 PM

I recommend stocking up on non-perishable food. The shortages and insanity will come along soon. Jah Bless.

#LastDays

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 17, 2020, 09:35:04 PM

The way out of this is through testing, tracing, treatment and a vaccine.... thus far, it feels our accomplishments are none and we have no answers Re: strength of antibodies and such.

We are completely screwed.

#LastDays

(https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-22-2016/zmLRkH.gif)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 17, 2020, 10:08:02 PM

Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on April 17, 2020, 10:00:59 PM

(https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-22-2016/zmLRkH.gif)

Because I’m not blind. The masses are.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 17, 2020, 10:09:30 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 17, 2020, 05:54:17 PM

I am not a big fan of POTUS delegating this entirely to the states, but once he did this I wish he would stick to it. But he can't help himself. Yesterday, "states can decide." Today, "LIBERATE MICHIGAN!!," "LIBERATE MINNESOTA!!," "LIBERATE VIRGINIA!!"

So does he want states to follow his deliberate 3-phase plan, or not?

Don't his supporters see the inherent inconsistency in these messages?

You're kidding, right?

The one time he wasn't lying was when he said he could shoot people on 5th Avenue and not lose their support.

That tweet he sent was beyond hypocrisy, it was dangerous.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 17, 2020, 10:14:27 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 17, 2020, 10:09:30 PM

You're kidding, right?

The one time he wasn't lying was when he said he could shoot people on 5th Avenue and not lose their support.

That tweet he sent was beyond hypocrisy, it was dangerous.

This is helpful

Also, completely against forum rules

Mods, #banDisGFindividual

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 17, 2020, 10:16:08 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 17, 2020, 10:09:30 PM

You're kidding, right?

The one time he wasn't lying was when he said he could shoot people on 5th Avenue and not lose their support.

That tweet he sent was beyond hypocrisy, it was dangerous.

Yeah - just desperately grasping for a ray of hope. I need some hope....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 17, 2020, 10:19:27 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 17, 2020, 10:14:27 PM

This is helpful

Also, completely against forum rules

Mods, #banDisGFindividual

You sure are effen boring when you're not trolling about the End Times.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 17, 2020, 10:29:13 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 17, 2020, 09:35:04 PM

The way out of this is through testing, tracing, treatment and a vaccine.... thus far, it feels our accomplishments are none and we have no answers Re: strength of antibodies and such.

I am encouraged by treatment progress.  No clue on vaccine.  Someone needs to put a boot in our societies collective ass on tracing/testing/serology.  Agree?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on April 17, 2020, 10:39:12 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 17, 2020, 10:08:02 PM

Because I’m not blind. The masses are.

Nah, that’s not it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 17, 2020, 11:03:08 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 17, 2020, 10:29:13 PM

I am encouraged by treatment progress.  No clue on vaccine.  Someone needs to put a boot in our societies collective ass on tracing/testing/serology.  Agree?

The research on a couple of treatments (remdesovir and convalescent plasma) looks pretty promising.

As for testing, private organizations and state labs are doing a pretty good job. Some help from CDC would have been a game-changer.

Contact tracing should be done by CDC, but they seem to be passing this buck to states. Damn shame, because it will slow things down.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 17, 2020, 11:36:30 PM

There has never been a successful vaccine for a Coronavirus ever. Not holding my breath for anything soon.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 18, 2020, 12:13:34 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on April 17, 2020, 11:36:30 PM

There has never been a successful vaccine for a Coronavirus ever. Not holding my breath for anything soon.

C’mon man. Your post is gonna make JB start crying again.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 18, 2020, 12:21:26 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on April 17, 2020, 11:36:30 PM

There has never been a successful vaccine for a Coronavirus ever. Not holding my breath for anything soon.

That in part has been because there is no money in one. There may be money in developing this one.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 18, 2020, 07:34:20 AM

This article covers a study that tried to put a number on the level of testing required.

 https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/17/us/coronavirus-testing-states.html (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/17/us/coronavirus-testing-states.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on April 18, 2020, 07:36:26 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on April 17, 2020, 11:36:30 PM

There has never been a successful vaccine for a Coronavirus ever. Not holding my breath for anything soon.

I see what you did there.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 18, 2020, 07:51:21 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 17, 2020, 10:29:13 PM

I am encouraged by treatment progress.  No clue on vaccine.  Someone needs to put a boot in our societies collective ass on tracing/testing/serology.  Agree?

I'm weirdly optimistic about the therapeutic treatments being tested. Whether it is plasma, Gilead's drug, one of the several others with initial encouraging results, or a combo of some or all of these, I feel we are not that far from a treatment regiment that will get this under control.

Vaccine, not so much. At least not in the sense of inoculating people against getting the virus. Maybe something as effective as a flu shot, but the efficacy of that varies a lot from year to year.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 18, 2020, 08:36:07 AM

A vaccine will the efficacy of the flu vaccine, combined with better theraputic treatments, will be plenty to get society back to "normal."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 18, 2020, 09:29:23 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 18, 2020, 08:36:07 AM

A vaccine will the efficacy of the flu vaccine, combined with better theraputic treatments, will be plenty to get society back to "normal."

Agreed. Even a “sort of effective” vaccine could make a huge difference when we’re teetering on the edge between more overflowing hospitals and an even worse financial crisis.

To me, the bigger concerns right now are inadequate testing and non-existent contact tracing. Dramatic increases in both are a prerequisite to rationally reopening the economy. POTUS and CDC - can you hear me?!?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 18, 2020, 09:34:08 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 18, 2020, 07:51:21 AM

Vaccine, not so much. At least not in the sense of inoculating people against getting the virus. Maybe something as effective as a flu shot, but the efficacy of that varies a lot from year to year.

Something as effective as the flu shot would be amazing. The flu-vaccine is quite effective. The problem is the flu mutates rapidly, and there are so many strains out there, that we are guessing which strains will be prevalent each year.

From a vaccine standpoint, there is one strain of SARS-COV2, and the region they are targeting does not mutate as rapidly as the flu. The problem is, we don't know if you get long term immunity.

My hope is that even if you don't get true immunity, later rounds of infection are at least milder, so that instead of being hospitalized/ICU/dead, you are looking at the worst cases being, very ill/hospitalized/ICU.

Where we knock down the degree of severity one notch.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 18, 2020, 09:43:12 AM

This study is somewhat good news.  A lot more of us have this than we can measure (50-80x). 

Bad news still not enough to make progress on herd immunity. 

 https://thehill.com/homenews/news/493391-california-antibody-testing-suggests-coronavirus-may-be-far-more-widespread (https://thehill.com/homenews/news/493391-california-antibody-testing-suggests-coronavirus-may-be-far-more-widespread)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 18, 2020, 11:07:21 AM

Oh, good God, these people...

@WillieGeist: White House economic advisor Stephen Moore says Americans protesting stay-at-home orders are “modern-day Rosa Parks.”

“I call these people the modern-day Rosa Parks — they are protesting against injustice and a loss of liberties.” @WashingtonPost https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/rallies-against-stay-at-home-orders-grow-as-trump-sides-with-protesters/2020/04/17/1405ba54-7f4e-11ea-8013-1b6da0e4a2b7_story.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 18, 2020, 11:17:27 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 18, 2020, 09:43:12 AM

This study is somewhat good news.  A lot more of us have this than we can measure (50-80x). 

Bad news still not enough to make progress on herd immunity. 

 https://thehill.com/homenews/news/493391-california-antibody-testing-suggests-coronavirus-may-be-far-more-widespread (https://thehill.com/homenews/news/493391-california-antibody-testing-suggests-coronavirus-may-be-far-more-widespread)

While interesting, these studies (another from Massachusetts, where 1/3 of people test positive), are confusing.

With lockdowns in place, where and how are they getting infected. If these results are true, then the idea that this is primarily spread by droplets is wrong. There aren't enough people being exposed to droplets in the air for those levels of infection.

The 2nd aspect, both studies used tests that haven't been approved by the FDA. Are these tests even working? And why do these results conflict with approved testing regimes that are seeing that only 10% of symptomatic people are testing positive.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 18, 2020, 11:26:34 AM

Quote from: forgetful on April 18, 2020, 11:17:27 AM

While interesting, these studies (another from Massachusetts, where 1/3 of people test positive), are confusing.

With lockdowns in place, where and how are they getting infected. If these results are true, then the idea that this is primarily spread by droplets is wrong. There aren't enough people being exposed to droplets in the air for those levels of infection.

The 2nd aspect, both studies used tests that haven't been approved by the FDA. Are these tests even working? And why do these results conflict with approved testing regimes that are seeing that only 10% of symptomatic people are testing positive.

I think you may be overestimating the extent of the lockdowns and how strictly people are adhering to them.
I had to go to the grocery store yesterday and while I wouldn't say the place was packed, it was busy - busier than most Friday mornings (when I typically do my grocery shopping).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 18, 2020, 11:37:47 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 18, 2020, 09:29:23 AM

POTUS and CDC - can you hear me?!?

Trump has been very clear he isn't going to do anything about testing. He is shoving it on the states. He said early and often that he doesn't want "the numbers" to be high, which is what testing would show. Widespread testing will increase not only the number of confirmed cases, but increase the death toll as well since many who die now are never tested.

The lower the confirmed numbers, the more he is able to declare victory. It is demented, but it is true, and he has said this out loud. “I like the numbers being where they are. I don’t need to have the numbers double because of one ship”. Instead of being concerned with the health crisis, he was worried about the numbers. It is a running theme. Who else would be fixed on the ratings of his press conference??

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 18, 2020, 11:43:22 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on April 18, 2020, 11:07:21 AM

Oh, good God, these people...

@WillieGeist: White House economic advisor Stephen Moore says Americans protesting stay-at-home orders are “modern-day Rosa Parks.”

“I call these people the modern-day Rosa Parks — they are protesting against injustice and a loss of liberties.” @WashingtonPost https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/rallies-against-stay-at-home-orders-grow-as-trump-sides-with-protesters/2020/04/17/1405ba54-7f4e-11ea-8013-1b6da0e4a2b7_story.html

So the White House is telling us to social distance and protest social distancing at the same time. What a cluster they are.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 18, 2020, 11:46:05 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on April 18, 2020, 11:43:22 AM

So the White House is telling us to social distance and protest social distancing at the same time. What a cluster they are.

Cluster might imply that it is accidental. It most definitely is intentional. Some here call it "outstanding leadership".

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 18, 2020, 12:49:20 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on April 18, 2020, 11:43:22 AM

So the White House is telling us to social distance and protest social distancing at the same time. What a cluster they are.

The White House laid out a reasonable well-constructed, 3-phase plan to gradually re-open the economy, area by area.

Then, hours later, the White House sent out a tweet applauding protesters for ignoring the White House's own plan.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 18, 2020, 01:34:24 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on April 18, 2020, 11:07:21 AM

Oh, good God, these people...

@WillieGeist: White House economic advisor Stephen Moore says Americans protesting stay-at-home orders are “modern-day Rosa Parks.”

“I call these people the modern-day Rosa Parks — they are protesting against injustice and a loss of liberties.” @WashingtonPost https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/rallies-against-stay-at-home-orders-grow-as-trump-sides-with-protesters/2020/04/17/1405ba54-7f4e-11ea-8013-1b6da0e4a2b7_story.html

I call them a****les who are going to end up with Coronavirus.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 18, 2020, 01:52:56 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 17, 2020, 01:43:12 PM

Florida updates:

- Rich residents of an island get their own test for themselves and their workers: https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/16/us/fisher-island-miami-coronavirus-antibody-testing/index.html

- Florida beaches will reopen beginning this evening.

One week ago the IHME website was predicting more than 4700 would die in Florida and that the peak would be May 3rd. Now projecting 1363 death with the peak already behind us.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 18, 2020, 02:08:51 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 17, 2020, 10:37:03 AM

Look Lenny, it was met with xenophobia and cries of racism by idiots.  You know and I know it.  I'm a pretty liberal guy, and I applauded the measure of closing borders because it was the most logical thing to do at the time.  But please stop pretending like the criticism of the travel ban was wide spread.

And do you honestly think that China intentionally, and maliciously spread this virus around the world?

It was fairly widespread and pushed by members of they party and media that are not portrayed as idiots here usually.  Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders, Vox, New York Times, Buzzfeed, and others did say it was xenophobic.

The problem we have come to as a nation is that people who hate Trump will attack whatever he does only because it is him.  Good decisions by him are automatically labeled.  He has brought that on himself with media attacks, but they want to take him down so badly that their initial response is to attack. 

Much of the attacks are deserved, but when it becomes the default response we are no better than when he attacks everyone.  I can turn on FOX and know most of what I will see is positive coverage of the administration.  I can turn on CNN and MSNBC and know probably 95% or higher will be negative.  All three are wrong, but it is that predictable to the point it isn’t worth watching.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on April 18, 2020, 02:15:48 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 18, 2020, 02:08:51 PM

It was fairly widespread and pushed by members of they party and media that are not portrayed as idiots here usually.  Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders, Vox, New York Times, Buzzfeed, and others did say it was xenophobic.

The problem we have come to as a nation is that people who hate Trump will attack whatever he does only because it is him.  Good decisions by him are automatically labeled.  He has brought that on himself with media attacks, but they want to take him down so badly that their initial response is to attack. 

Much of the attacks are deserved, but when it becomes the default response we are no better than when he attacks everyone.  I can turn on FOX and know most of what I will see is positive coverage of the administration.  I can turn on CNN and MSNBC and know probably 95% or higher will be negative.  All three are wrong, but it is that predictable to the point it isn’t worth watching.

Sources on Biden, Sanders, and news orgs (not editorial pieces) calling POTUS xenophobic?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 18, 2020, 02:16:38 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 18, 2020, 02:08:51 PM

It was fairly widespread and pushed by members of they party and media that are not portrayed as idiots here usually.  Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders, Vox, New York Times, Buzzfeed, and others did say it was xenophobic.

The problem we have come to as a nation is that people who hate Trump will attack whatever he does only because it is him.  Good decisions by him are automatically labeled.  He has brought that on himself with media attacks, but they want to take him down so badly that their initial response is to attack. 

Much of the attacks are deserved, but when it becomes the default response we are no better than when he attacks everyone.  I can turn on FOX and know most of what I will see is positive coverage of the administration.  I can turn on CNN and MSNBC and know probably 95% or higher will be negative.  All three are wrong, but it is that predictable to the point it isn’t worth watching.

So you're done pretending now.  That's nice.  The first person you should be honest with is yourself.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 18, 2020, 02:44:09 PM

Quote from: reinko on April 18, 2020, 02:15:48 PM

Sources on Biden, Sanders, and news orgs (not editorial pieces) calling POTUS xenophobic?

Joe Biden  Feb 1st  https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1223727977361338370?s=20

"We need to lead the way with science — not Donald Trump’s record of hysteria, xenophobia, and fear-mongering."  Biden's twitter statement came out hours after the travel ban put into effect.

The New York Times quoted epidemiologist Dr. Michael Osterholm as saying that Trump's decision to restrict travel from China was "more of an emotional or political reaction." on the day of the ban.

Vox; "The evidence on travel bans for diseases like coronavirus is clear: They don’t work."  Vox also said on January 31st (the day of the travel ban) "Is this going to be a deadly pandemic? No."   They later deleted the tweet.
 https://twitter.com/clairlemon/status/1243086314330656774/photo/1

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 18, 2020, 02:47:29 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 18, 2020, 02:16:38 PM

So you're done pretending now.  That's nice.  The first person you should be honest with is yourself.

I'm not a far left partisan like you are. Do you understand that though we are shrinking, there is a decent number of moderates that are Democrats.  We may not be as liberal as you are, but your attacks on anything not in your belief system is what continues to degrade dialogue in this country.  Both sides do it.  The right and the left.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 18, 2020, 02:59:01 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 18, 2020, 02:44:09 PM

Joe Biden  Feb 1st  https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1223727977361338370?s=20

"We need to lead the way with science — not Donald Trump’s record of hysteria, xenophobia, and fear-mongering."  Biden's twitter statement came out hours after the travel ban put into effect.

The New York Times quoted epidemiologist Dr. Michael Osterholm as saying that Trump's decision to restrict travel from China was "more of an emotional or political reaction." on the day of the ban.

Vox; "The evidence on travel bans for diseases like coronavirus is clear: They don’t work."  Vox also said on January 31st (the day of the travel ban) "Is this going to be a deadly pandemic? No."   They later deleted the tweet.
 https://twitter.com/clairlemon/status/1243086314330656774/photo/1

As you can see, Biden did not call that xenophobia. He said the Racist In Chief had a "record of hysteria, xenophobia, and fear-mongering." There's a difference.

And no links from "Bernie Sanders, New York Times or Buzzfeed."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 18, 2020, 03:15:01 PM

Back to the topic at hand--the article below is about a German anti-body study and their path to reopening.

This quote is amazing.

Mr. Hoelscher got the idea for the antibody study in the shower. It was March 19, the day before the state of Bavaria announced its lockdown.

“I thought to myself if we’re going into lockdown, we need to start working on an exit strategy now,” he said.

The next day, he said he wrote a short pitch to the Bavarian government. Six hours later, he had the green light. It took another three weeks until the test kits had arrived, a new lab was opened and teams of medics started fanning out across the city.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/18/world/europe/with-broad-random-tests-for-antibodies-germany-seeks-path-out-of-lockdown.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/18/world/europe/with-broad-random-tests-for-antibodies-germany-seeks-path-out-of-lockdown.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 18, 2020, 03:22:01 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 18, 2020, 02:47:29 PM

I'm not a far left partisan like you are. Do you understand that though we are shrinking, there is a decent number of moderates that are Democrats.  We may not be as liberal as you are, but your attacks on anything not in your belief system is what continues to degrade dialogue in this country.  Both sides do it.  The right and the left.

No, you're a far right partisan masquerading as someone you're not.  You constantly drop far right talking points, and then try to play the 'both sides' card.  As if people around here are stupid enough to fall for your lame attempts at moderation.

Dude, just be honest with us all, and drop the act, Jamie, you're not fooling anyone.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on April 18, 2020, 04:31:57 PM

Uncle Joe will handle COVID-9 just fine now that he doesn't have to worry about Super Thursday anymore, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 18, 2020, 05:28:13 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 18, 2020, 03:15:01 PM

Back to the topic at hand--the article below is about a German anti-body study and their path to reopening.

This quote is amazing.

Mr. Hoelscher got the idea for the antibody study in the shower. It was March 19, the day before the state of Bavaria announced its lockdown.

“I thought to myself if we’re going into lockdown, we need to start working on an exit strategy now,” he said.

The next day, he said he wrote a short pitch to the Bavarian government. Six hours later, he had the green light. It took another three weeks until the test kits had arrived, a new lab was opened and teams of medics started fanning out across the city.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/18/world/europe/with-broad-random-tests-for-antibodies-germany-seeks-path-out-of-lockdown.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/18/world/europe/with-broad-random-tests-for-antibodies-germany-seeks-path-out-of-lockdown.html)

Great story, and I echo you sentiment on staying on the topic at hand.

It is sad that I don't think we have an exit strategy even now, in regards to proper testing and tracking of patients. We need action.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 18, 2020, 06:10:15 PM

New Haven just set up a drive up test station with the Abbot Lab 5 min test.  Right off the I91 & I95 interchange.
Anyone can sign up online to schedule their time slot.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 18, 2020, 06:10:38 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 18, 2020, 04:31:57 PM

Uncle Joe will handle COVID-9 just fine now that he doesn't have to worry about Super Thursday anymore, hey?

Interesting that you don't see the irony in pointing out Biden's snafus when your buddy in the White House is a walking talking gaffe machine.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 18, 2020, 06:56:10 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 18, 2020, 06:10:38 PM

Interesting that you don't see the irony in pointing out Biden's snafus when your buddy in the White House is a walking talking gaffe machine.

Quit badmouthing trump. Didn’t you see where he saved billions of American lives? How ungrateful!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 18, 2020, 08:15:47 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 18, 2020, 02:08:51 PM

The problem we have come to as a nation is that people who hate Trump will attack whatever he does only because it is him.  Good decisions by him are automatically labeled.  He has brought that on himself with media attacks, but they want to take him down so badly that their initial response is to attack. 

Good decisions automatically labeled, initial response is to attack...hmmm, who does that sound like?

Yes, many people have attacked Trump from the moment he took office, but I suspect it was because he was maliciously attacking others long before that. And even though both sides are still attacking, Trump is still the most aggressive and high-profile attacker. Less than 24 hours after telling the governors to make the decisions themselves using sensible guidelines, he started ripping many of them for doing exactly what he asked.

If Trump wants to have any chance to stop the attacks, he needs either to

* lead us through this by pushing CDC to fix its failed efforts at testing, by taking the lead on testing and contact tracing; or
* delegate testing, contact tracing and decisions to reopen to the states and then stop criticizing them for doing it.

Regrettably, I doubt he has it in him to do either. I will be the first to admit I was wrong if he does one of the two above....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 18, 2020, 11:55:03 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 16, 2020, 08:49:56 AM

So yeah, Elon Musk...

Elon Musk Promised Ventilators. None of Them Showed Up

Tesla's CEO faces criticism over his bold promises. Why keeping your promise matters.

Elon Musk is no stranger to bold promises or controversy. They frequently travel together in his case. It shouldn't come as much of a surprise then that Musk is facing criticism for failing to live up to one of those bold promises. Except in this case, when you promise to deliver life-saving ventilators and you don't, it's more than simply controversial.

Over the past few weeks, Musk's public statements on ventilators have included statements that Tesla would manufacture them if needed, that he had purchased 1,000 "FDA approved ventilators," and that he had sent those to hospitals.

The problem is no hospitals have actually received ventilators from Musk or Tesla. Instead, some of what was donated and sent to hospitals were devices used to treat sleep apnea. Known as BiPAP machines, those devices don't force air directly into the lungs using a breathing tube--which is required for patients suffering from severe forms of Covid-19.

In addition, the California Governor's office has said none of the hospitals in that state have received any ventilators that were promised.

https://www.inc.com/jason-aten/elon-musk-promised-ventilators-none-showed-up.html

Appears the media was sloppy with this one.  HBO last night on the Bill Maher show he had a great line.  Don’t let Trump’s Fake News charged become true as it only helps him.

Case in point, Musk did deliver what the hospitals asked of him. They thanked him on Twitter yesterday and today despite the erroneous reporting by CNN.

https://cleantechnica.com/2020/04/19/there-are-no-missing-ventilators-elon-tesla-kept-their-promise/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 19, 2020, 12:29:36 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 18, 2020, 11:55:03 PM

Appears the media was sloppy with this one.  HBO last night on the Bill Maher show he had a great line.  Don’t let Trump’s Fake News charged become true as it only helps him.

Case in point, Musk did deliver what the hospitals asked of him. They thanked him on Twitter yesterday and today despite the erroneous reporting by CNN.

https://cleantechnica.com/2020/04/19/there-are-no-missing-ventilators-elon-tesla-kept-their-promise/

The article TSmith posted is accurate. It clearly indicates that he did send BiPAP machines, which aren't invasive ventilators. They technically constitute a type of "ventilator" but were not what was promised.

Also, saying the media is sloppy on this one is inaccurate. The article you link indicates that the media asked Tesla and Musk for comment and they refused to comment.

Seems like you have a vendetta against media.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 19, 2020, 06:55:15 AM

Contact tracing

 https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/493416-why-contact-tracers-are-key-to-unlocking-economy (https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/493416-why-contact-tracers-are-key-to-unlocking-economy)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 19, 2020, 07:01:45 AM

Virus continues to spread in essential industry.

 https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/food-safety/493503-another-smithfield-food-plant-has-been-struck-by-the (https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/food-safety/493503-another-smithfield-food-plant-has-been-struck-by-the)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 19, 2020, 11:18:45 AM

Yesterday, trump claimed he has saved a billion lives by his actions on Covid-19. 13% of all human life on Earth.

Anyone besides Hutch, rocket, ziggy or 4never believe it?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 19, 2020, 11:35:04 AM

It should be a spectacular 5.5 months of dueling misstatements and malapropisms. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on April 19, 2020, 11:56:17 AM

Quote from: Jockey on April 19, 2020, 11:18:45 AM

Yesterday, trump claimed he has saved a billion lives by his actions on Covid-19. 13% of all human life on Earth.

Anyone besides Hutch, rocket, ziggy or 4never believe it?

Seems legit. Given his history of honesty and fact-based statements why should anyone doubt the words of our Great Leader?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 19, 2020, 12:06:11 PM

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/18/asia/singapore-coronavirus-response-intl-hnk/index.html

Singapore looks like a great case study for how things should be handled, and what can go wrong.

They had tremendous initial success for two big reasons.

1. A great tracking and tracing program for testing. They were able to identify cases early.

2. If one tested positive. They were placed in hospitals and isolated from the community .

These are textbook methods in mitigating spread of a disease. It is also what they eventually did in Wuhan to quench the virus.

Now it seems to be failing, the why is equally interesting. They didn't test poor impoverished areas of migrant camps. Essentially, they ignored the undesirable population. They missed these cases and now they have spread. Not surprisingly, it will disproportionately affect the poor.

We never did 1 and 2, we also ignored the poor. Which is why are situation is drastically different.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 19, 2020, 12:48:02 PM

Joe Rogan is buying tests and testing all of his guests.

Is this good/bad/neither?

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/884yka/joe-rogan-podcast-covid-19-testing?utm_content=1587140885&utm_medium=social&utm_source=VICE_twitter

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 19, 2020, 12:48:38 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 19, 2020, 11:18:45 AM

Yesterday, trump claimed he has saved a billion lives by his actions on Covid-19. 13% of all human life on Earth.

Anyone besides Hutch, rocket, ziggy or 4never believe it?

Can you prove he didn't save a billion lives?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 19, 2020, 01:02:44 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 19, 2020, 12:48:02 PM

Joe Rogan is buying tests and testing all of his guests.

Is this good/bad/neither?

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/884yka/joe-rogan-podcast-covid-19-testing?utm_content=1587140885&utm_medium=social&utm_source=VICE_twitter

I think its great.  Businesses/factories should start doing this too.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 19, 2020, 01:08:36 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 19, 2020, 01:02:44 PM

I think its great.  Businesses/factories should start doing this too.

I have no problem with it in general. But they should be using FDA approved tests that have been widely validated in terms of false positives/false negatives.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 19, 2020, 02:32:28 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 19, 2020, 11:18:45 AM

Yesterday, trump claimed he has saved a billion lives by his actions on Covid-19. 13% of all human life on Earth.

That settles it. Between Trump saving 1 billion lives and Ivanka creating 15 million jobs, how could you vote for anyone else?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 19, 2020, 02:32:29 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 19, 2020, 06:55:15 AM

Contact tracing

 https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/493416-why-contact-tracers-are-key-to-unlocking-economy (https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/493416-why-contact-tracers-are-key-to-unlocking-economy)

Yep - I've been harping on this for weeks. And if the administration demanded that the CDC jump all over this back in January or February, the resource needs would have been far less than 100,000 people at a price tag of $3.6B.

Instead, he was hoping for his miracle....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 19, 2020, 03:15:33 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 19, 2020, 01:02:44 PM

I think its great.  Businesses/factories should start doing this too.

Where would businesses/factories get all of those tests?

I have been on this for more than 6 weeks. We need more testing!!

We don't have it because the orange clown who could make it happen, wont.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 19, 2020, 03:25:48 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 19, 2020, 03:15:33 PM

Where would businesses/factories get all of those tests?

I have been on this for more than 6 weeks. We need more testing!!

We don't have it because the orange clown who could make it happen, wont.

They can fund/procure it.  I think it would be more efficient if we did this centrally/nationally but it’s not an impossibility for a corporation to pull off.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 19, 2020, 03:37:45 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 19, 2020, 03:25:48 PM

They can fund/procure it.  I think it would be more efficient if we did this centrally/nationally but it’s not an impossibility for a corporation to pull off.

I'd like to think you are right, Frenns, but without using the DPA, I see no way we can get to the level of testing needed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 19, 2020, 03:58:46 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 19, 2020, 03:37:45 PM

I'd like to think you are right, Frenns, but without using the DPA, I see no way we can get to the level of testing needed.

I’m not making a comment on testing needed...but sans a better wholistic system this can contribute to keeping essential industries running and safe.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 19, 2020, 09:18:21 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 19, 2020, 12:29:36 AM

The article TSmith posted is accurate. It clearly indicates that he did send BiPAP machines, which aren't invasive ventilators. They technically constitute a type of "ventilator" but were not what was promised.

Also, saying the media is sloppy on this one is inaccurate. The article you link indicates that the media asked Tesla and Musk for comment and they refused to comment.

Seems like you have a vendetta against media.

The FDA approved the ventilators he provided for use on COVID patients several weeks ago.  In reading the article I attached the hospitals were extremely grateful for the donations, they took the appropriate path here.  There are multiple Twitter and instagram links directly to responses by the doctors and how they are using them for COVID purposes.

The media are an enterprising lot to get a story.  They do tremendous work for our democracy, but occasionally in today’s gotcha culture if they can make someone they do not like look bad they will.  It would not have been difficult for them to work a bit harder on this one.  The CNN reporter doubling and tripling down and Twitter users correcting him every bit of the way.  It was nice to see the digital citizenry push back and question what exactly is the goal here?  Musk also said more equipment was on the way, but sometimes it is never good enough.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 19, 2020, 09:21:39 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 18, 2020, 08:15:47 PM

Good decisions automatically labeled, initial response is to attack...hmmm, who does that sound like?

Yes, many people have attacked Trump from the moment he took office, but I suspect it was because he was maliciously attacking others long before that. And even though both sides are still attacking, Trump is still the most aggressive and high-profile attacker. Less than 24 hours after telling the governors to make the decisions themselves using sensible guidelines, he started ripping many of them for doing exactly what he asked.

If Trump wants to have any chance to stop the attacks, he needs either to

* lead us through this by pushing CDC to fix its failed efforts at testing, by taking the lead on testing and contact tracing; or
* delegate testing, contact tracing and decisions to reopen to the states and then stop criticizing them for doing it.

Regrettably, I doubt he has it in him to do either. I will be the first to admit I was wrong if he does one of the two above....

He has made some terrible decisions which you and others tell us about every day countless times.  Others have also made some mindless decisions.  There have also been very good decisions made, but they do not count.  We would be out of WWII in 6 months with our attitudes today and the mistakes made.  Life is not a video game in which you get to respawn for another chance at the prize.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on April 19, 2020, 09:24:57 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 19, 2020, 09:21:39 PM

He has made some terrible decisions which you and others tell us about every day countless times.  Others have also made some mindless decisions.  There have also been very good decisions made, but they do not count.  We would be out of WWII in 6 months with our attitudes today and the mistakes made.  Life is not a video game in which you get to respawn for another chance at the prize.

He’s handled this great.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 19, 2020, 10:12:06 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 19, 2020, 09:21:39 PM

He has made some terrible decisions which you and others tell us about every day countless times.  Others have also made some mindless decisions.  There have also been very good decisions made, but they do not count.  We would be out of WWII in 6 months with our attitudes today and the mistakes made.  Life is not a video game in which you get to respawn for another chance at the prize.

He is the President of the United States. He does not get a free pass for the terrible decisions he made. But instead of owning up to them and leading us through this crisis, he continues to double down, pass the buck and blame everyone except himself.

If that’s all you expect in your President, great. I expect better...which is why most of my post proposed two ways he could still lead us out of this. You know...moving forward.

Any confidence that he could do either?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 19, 2020, 10:35:47 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 19, 2020, 10:12:06 PM

He is the President of the United States. He does not get a free pass for the terrible decisions he made. But instead of owning up to them and leading us through this crisis, he continues to double down, pass the buck and blame everyone except himself.

If that’s all you expect in your President, great. I expect better...which is why most of my post proposed two ways he could still lead us out of this. You know...moving forward.

Any confidence that he could do either?

I am not aware of anyone here saying he deserves a free pass.  Nor do I think any of these leaders in the US or anywhere else could have stopped this.  There is a reason the entire world has it. 

The problem is that everyone’s definition of what it means to be let out of this is so different.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on April 19, 2020, 11:09:08 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 19, 2020, 09:21:39 PM

He has made some terrible decisions which you and others tell us about every day countless times.  Others have also made some mindless decisions.  There have also been very good decisions made, but they do not count.  We would be out of WWII in 6 months with our attitudes today and the mistakes made.  Life is not a video game in which you get to respawn for another chance at the prize.

Give me a f*cking break.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 19, 2020, 11:09:15 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 19, 2020, 10:35:47 PM

The problem is that everyone’s definition of what it means to be let out of this is so different.

Yes...but taking responsibility for both the good and the bad would be a reasonable place to start. If he would simply admit his mistakes, and then stick with the three-phase plan he announced last week, it would go a LONG way toward quelling some of the critics. I will be the first to give him credit if he takes this approach. Not as good as putting CDC in charge, but it would be a reasonable back-up plan that I would support.

The problem is that he announced the three-phase plan one day, and then encouraged protests against it the next....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 19, 2020, 11:45:41 PM

“I don’t take responsibility at all.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on April 20, 2020, 12:48:06 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 19, 2020, 11:09:15 PM

Yes...but taking responsibility for both the good and the bad would be a reasonable place to start. If he would simply admit his mistakes, and then stick with the three-phase plan he announced last week, it would go a LONG way toward quelling some of the critics. I will be the first to give him credit if he takes this approach. Not as good as putting CDC in charge, but it would be a reasonable back-up plan that I would support.

The problem is that he announced the three-phase plan one day, and then encouraged protests against it the next....

And let’s be honest - the bar for giving him “credit” at this point is absurdly low.

And for you whiny little babies that complain about “politics” at this point that’s nothing more than a deflection of the sheer incompetence  and lunacy we’ve seen and continue to see.  Accept it for what it is.

Anyone who tries to defend his volley of “liberate” tweets a day after announcing reopening guidelines is basically a cult member.

And if your only weak-ass response is “ban dis guy” you’re an embarrassment that doesn’t have a leg to stand on.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 20, 2020, 07:41:06 AM

The Atlantic nails it.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/06/underlying-conditions/610261/?utm_source=twitter&utm_content=edit-promo&utm_medium=social&utm_term=2020-04-20T11%253A00%253A55&utm_campaign=the-atlantic

We Are Living in a Failed State
The coronavirus didn’t break America. It revealed what was already broken.

"When the virus came here, it found a country with serious underlying conditions, and it exploited them ruthlessly. Chronic ills—a corrupt political class, a sclerotic bureaucracy, a heartless economy, a divided and distracted public—had gone untreated for years. We had learned to live, uncomfortably, with the symptoms. It took the scale and intimacy of a pandemic to expose their severity—to shock Americans with the recognition that we are in the high-risk category.

The crisis demanded a response that was swift, rational, and collective. The United States reacted instead like Pakistan or Belarus—like a country with shoddy infrastructure and a dys­func­tional government whose leaders were too corrupt or stupid to head off mass suffering. The administration squandered two irretrievable months to prepare. From the president came willful blindness, scapegoating, boasts, and lies. From his mouthpieces, conspiracy theories and miracle cures. A few senators and corporate executives acted quickly—not to prevent the coming disaster, but to profit from it. When a government doctor tried to warn the public of the danger, the White House took the mic and politicized 
the message.

Every morning in the endless month of March, Americans woke up to find themselves citizens of a failed state. With no national plan—no coherent instructions at all—families, schools, and offices were left to decide on their own whether to shut down and take shelter. When test kits, masks, gowns, and ventilators were found to be in desperately short supply, governors pleaded for them from the White House, which stalled, then called on private enterprise, which couldn’t deliver. States and cities were forced into bidding wars that left them prey to price gouging and corporate profiteering. Civilians took out their sewing machines to try to keep ill-equipped hospital workers healthy and their patients alive. Russia, Taiwan, and the United Nations sent humanitarian aid to the world’s richest power—a beggar nation in utter chaos."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 20, 2020, 07:52:42 AM

Fake news.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 20, 2020, 08:43:52 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 20, 2020, 07:41:06 AM

The Atlantic nails it.

The Atlantic is always a great read.  Always well researched in depth articles on subjects you never thought would be a subject.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 20, 2020, 10:09:28 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 20, 2020, 07:41:06 AM

Every morning in the endless month of March, Americans woke up to find themselves citizens of a failed state. With no national plan—no coherent instructions at all—families, schools, and offices were left to decide on their own whether to shut down and take shelter. When test kits, masks, gowns, and ventilators were found to be in desperately short supply, governors pleaded for them from the White House, which stalled, then called on private enterprise, which couldn’t deliver. States and cities were forced into bidding wars that left them prey to price gouging and corporate profiteering. Civilians took out their sewing machines to try to keep ill-equipped hospital workers healthy and their patients alive. Russia, Taiwan, and the United Nations sent humanitarian aid to the world’s richest power—a beggar nation in utter chaos."

40% of Americans haven't woke up, and don't see this as true. Or if they do see it, they have decided it is all the prior administrations fault and the deep-state. So the nation is still divided and broken.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 20, 2020, 10:42:33 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 20, 2020, 07:41:06 AM

The Atlantic nails it.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/06/underlying-conditions/610261/?utm_source=twitter&utm_content=edit-promo&utm_medium=social&utm_term=2020-04-20T11%253A00%253A55&utm_campaign=the-atlantic

We Are Living in a Failed State
The coronavirus didn’t break America. It revealed what was already broken.

"When the virus came here, it found a country with serious underlying conditions, and it exploited them ruthlessly. Chronic ills—a corrupt political class, a sclerotic bureaucracy, a heartless economy, a divided and distracted public—had gone untreated for years. We had learned to live, uncomfortably, with the symptoms. It took the scale and intimacy of a pandemic to expose their severity—to shock Americans with the recognition that we are in the high-risk category.

The crisis demanded a response that was swift, rational, and collective. The United States reacted instead like Pakistan or Belarus—like a country with shoddy infrastructure and a dys­func­tional government whose leaders were too corrupt or stupid to head off mass suffering. The administration squandered two irretrievable months to prepare. From the president came willful blindness, scapegoating, boasts, and lies. From his mouthpieces, conspiracy theories and miracle cures. A few senators and corporate executives acted quickly—not to prevent the coming disaster, but to profit from it. When a government doctor tried to warn the public of the danger, the White House took the mic and politicized 
the message.

Every morning in the endless month of March, Americans woke up to find themselves citizens of a failed state. With no national plan—no coherent instructions at all—families, schools, and offices were left to decide on their own whether to shut down and take shelter. When test kits, masks, gowns, and ventilators were found to be in desperately short supply, governors pleaded for them from the White House, which stalled, then called on private enterprise, which couldn’t deliver. States and cities were forced into bidding wars that left them prey to price gouging and corporate profiteering. Civilians took out their sewing machines to try to keep ill-equipped hospital workers healthy and their patients alive. Russia, Taiwan, and the United Nations sent humanitarian aid to the world’s richest power—a beggar nation in utter chaos."

Sad but true. This country has had issues for years. Then we elected a President who wasn't built to deal with a crisis and are suffering as a result.

And before the Trump defenders blast this as partisan, I give you Bush. He was far from a perfect President, but I viewed his initial response to 9/11 as confident, unifying, and just what we needed in a moment of crisis. Trump, on the other hand, used this crisis as just one more reason to divide the country into blue and red.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 20, 2020, 10:48:36 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 20, 2020, 10:42:33 AM

Sad but true. This country has had issues for years. Then we elected a President who wasn't built to deal with a crisis. And we all are suffering as a result.

And before the Trump defenders blast this as partisan, I give you Bush. He was far from a perfect President, but I viewed his initial response to 9/11 as confident, unifying, and just what we needed in a moment of crisis. Trump, on the other hand, used this crisis as just one more reason to divide the country into blue and red.

Agreed about Bush re 9/11... Katrina not so much.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 20, 2020, 10:50:46 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on April 20, 2020, 10:48:36 AM

Agreed about Bush re 9/11... Katrina not so much.

Affirmative.

My point in complimenting Bush's response on 9/11 was simply to deflect the inevitable criticism that I am being overly partisan.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 20, 2020, 11:02:33 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on April 20, 2020, 10:48:36 AM

Agreed about Bush re 9/11... Katrina not so much.

Agreed on both parts. Reading the post-mortem on Katrina suggests we never learned our lesson regarding major catastrophe's.

https://www.cato.org/blog/hurricane-katrina-remembering-federal-failures

Essentially all the same federal failures for COVID-19. Just at a much larger economic cost, and loss of life.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on April 20, 2020, 12:42:36 PM

Nearly 1 in 4 Covid 19 deaths worldwide has come in the USA.

We have handled this perfectly. There’s clearly no need for more social distancing. Open this country back up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on April 20, 2020, 02:10:43 PM

Quote from: wadesworld on April 20, 2020, 12:42:36 PM

Nearly 1 in 4 Covid 19 deaths worldwide has come in the USA.

We have handled this perfectly. There’s clearly no need for more social distancing. Open this country back up.

This isnt a defense of the handling, but thats a misleading clickbait statistic.  The US is the 3rd most populous country in the world.  The most populous is clearly lying and under-reporting their deaths and the second lacks the testing to provide accurate numbers.  So naturally the US is going to have a high proportion of all deaths.  When looking per capita, the US (122 per 1MM) is well behind France (305 per) and Italy (350 per) and Spain (~300 per), significantly behind the UK (225 per), and also behind places like Sweden (155 per).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 20, 2020, 02:26:08 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on April 20, 2020, 02:10:43 PM

This isnt a defense of the handling, but thats a misleading clickbait statistic.  The US is the 3rd most populous country in the world.  The most populous is clearly lying and under-reporting their deaths and the second lacks the testing to provide accurate numbers.  So naturally the US is going to have a high proportion of all deaths.  When looking per capita, the US (122 per 1MM) is well behind France (305 per) and Italy (350 per) and Spain (~300 per), significantly behind the UK (225 per), and also behind places like Sweden (155 per).

I wouldn't trust any numbers from Russia either.  Sounds like they are getting hit hard now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 20, 2020, 02:28:32 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on April 20, 2020, 02:26:08 PM

I wouldn't trust any numbers from Russia either.  Sounds like they are getting hit hard now.

^

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 20, 2020, 02:43:29 PM

I don't think China's numbers are right, or Russia's numbers are right, or Iran's numbers either for that matter. I also don't think our numbers are right, or Italy's, or anywhere else's for that matter, though not for the reason the first group of country's are wrong.

Simple statistics seem to indicate that we are undercounting COVID deaths by roughly 50%. Not maliciously, but because we haven't tested enough and there is little time or desire to test someone after they have died. I spoke to a nurse the night before last and she said 10 people died during her shift but none were included in the official COVID stats.

Here is the repost of the article comparing prior year deaths in various locations around the world vs. this year, and comparing those to official COVID deaths:https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/more-on-excess-mortality-and-covid19s-hidden-toll (https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/more-on-excess-mortality-and-covid19s-hidden-toll)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on April 20, 2020, 02:56:38 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 20, 2020, 02:43:29 PM

I don't think China's numbers are right, or Russia's numbers are right, or Iran's numbers either for that matter. I also don't think our numbers are right, or Italy's, or anywhere else's for that matter, though not for the reason the first group of country's are wrong.

Simple statistics seem to indicate that we are undercounting COVID deaths by roughly 50%. Not maliciously, but because we haven't tested enough and there is little time or desire to test someone after they have died. I spoke to a nurse the night before last and she said 10 people dies during her shift but none were included in the official COVID stats.

Here is the repost of the article comparing prior year deaths in various locations around the world vs. this year, and comparing those to official COVID deaths:https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/more-on-excess-mortality-and-covid19s-hidden-toll

Exactly. Yes China’s numbers are misleading. So are the USA’s. Despite our fearless leader’s statement that anyone who wants a test can get a test, that’s not close to the case.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 20, 2020, 03:18:08 PM

Quote from: wadesworld on April 20, 2020, 02:56:38 PM

Exactly. Yes China’s numbers are misleading. So are the USA’s. Despite our fearless leader’s statement that anyone who wants a test can get a test, that’s not close to the case.

Yep.

China and Russia are underreporting, but that is probably intentional. The US is underreporting because we simply don’t have anywhere near the number of tests we need.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 20, 2020, 03:53:39 PM

I had no idea about this individual.  An American on the front lines at the WHO.  What a quote. 

“This is the first pandemic in history that we will be able to control. We've seen this. It's going to be difficult. Stick with us, stick with the science and be patient with your governments and your leaders about the next steps, because the public health measures that are put in place, these lockdowns that are put in place are difficult,” she said. “We're all going to get through this. We're all going to be OK, and we will try to save as many lives as we can.”

 https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/493714-exclusive-meet-the-top-american-fighting-covid-19-at-who (https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/493714-exclusive-meet-the-top-american-fighting-covid-19-at-who)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on April 20, 2020, 04:17:55 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 20, 2020, 03:53:39 PM

I had no idea about this individual.  An American on the front lines at the WHO.  What a quote. 

“This is the first pandemic in history that we will be able to control. We've seen this. It's going to be difficult. Stick with us, stick with the science and be patient with your governments and your leaders about the next steps, because the public health measures that are put in place, these lockdowns that are put in place are difficult,” she said. “We're all going to get through this. We're all going to be OK, and we will try to save as many lives as we can.”

 https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/493714-exclusive-meet-the-top-american-fighting-covid-19-at-who (https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/493714-exclusive-meet-the-top-american-fighting-covid-19-at-who)

American or not, I'm gonna take anything the WHO says with as much of a grain of salt as with the WH.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 20, 2020, 04:22:09 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 20, 2020, 03:53:39 PM

I had no idea about this individual.  An American on the front lines at the WHO.  What a quote. 

“This is the first pandemic in history that we will be able to control. We've seen this. It's going to be difficult. Stick with us, stick with the science and be patient with your governments and your leaders about the next steps, because the public health measures that are put in place, these lockdowns that are put in place are difficult,” she said. “We're all going to get through this. We're all going to be OK, and we will try to save as many lives as we can.”

 https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/493714-exclusive-meet-the-top-american-fighting-covid-19-at-who (https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/493714-exclusive-meet-the-top-american-fighting-covid-19-at-who)

Personally I also like this quote from Jan. 14th from her.

“The speed with which we were able to do that with all of our partners helped the world prepare,” she said. “We worked with U.S. CDC from day one. Even before that, because they were working with us on Ebola.”

It is true, they figured this one out with unprecedented quickness. It just didn't matter. This virus spread differently, could hide undetected for up to 2-weeks, and had a large number of asymptomatic people.

It also shows, that the technical lead, seeing all data, was an American, sharing info directly with the CDC.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 20, 2020, 04:36:14 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 20, 2020, 03:53:39 PM

I had no idea about this individual.  An American on the front lines at the WHO.  What a quote. 

“This is the first pandemic in history that we will be able to control. We've seen this. It's going to be difficult. Stick with us, stick with the science and be patient with your governments and your leaders about the next steps, because the public health measures that are put in place, these lockdowns that are put in place are difficult,” she said. “We're all going to get through this. We're all going to be OK, and we will try to save as many lives as we can.”

 https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/493714-exclusive-meet-the-top-american-fighting-covid-19-at-who (https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/493714-exclusive-meet-the-top-american-fighting-covid-19-at-who)

Interesting...and pretty damning for the CDC that it was embedded and involved from the beginning, and yet messed up its test development efforts so badly. If CDC had developed and rolled out a test in late January or early February (when other countries were already successfully testing for the virus), we would be in a very different place than we are right now.

I don’t know if was just CDC‘s screwups,  or if the Trump administration‘s very public anti-science stance also played a role in disempowering them, but something is severely wrong there...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 20, 2020, 05:05:00 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 20, 2020, 04:36:14 PM

Interesting...and pretty damning for the CDC that it was embedded and involved from the beginning, and yet messed up its test development efforts so badly. If CDC had developed and rolled out a test in late January or early February (when other countries were already successfully testing for the virus), we would be in a very different place than we are right now.

I don’t know if was just CDC‘s screwups,  or if the Trump administration‘s very public anti-science stance also played a role in disempowering them, but something is severely wrong there...

Doesn't help that they put a person in charge of testing who was fired from his previous job for over promising and under delivering in efforts to promote himself.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/20/politics/brett-giroir-coronavirus-vaccine/index.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 20, 2020, 05:11:37 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 20, 2020, 05:05:00 PM

Doesn't help that they put a person in charge of testing who was fired from his previous job for over promising and under delivering in efforts to promote himself.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/20/politics/brett-giroir-coronavirus-vaccine/index.html

Wonder why he was hired?


Citing a local newspaper that reported on Giroir's annual evaluation, the Post said Giroir received a performance evaluation that "said he was 'more interested in promoting yourself' than the health science center where he worked. He got low marks on being a 'team player.'"


These creeps stick together.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 20, 2020, 05:29:35 PM

Quote from: wadesworld on April 20, 2020, 12:42:36 PM

Nearly 1 in 4 Covid 19 deaths worldwide has come in the USA.

We have handled this perfectly. There’s clearly no need for more social distancing. Open this country back up.

We also have the second lowest mortality rate in the industrialized world for COVID 19 per capita.  Only Germany is better.  There are many countries, both conservative and progressive, with universal health care and without, with their own experts that are having problems, too.   Per capita is the correct way to look at this data.

Do you honestly think in an election year that someone else would have shut things down quicker?  I do not.  Can provide examples from both sides that show that to be true.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on April 20, 2020, 05:31:43 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 20, 2020, 05:29:35 PM

We also have the second lowest mortality rate in the industrialized world for COVID 19 per capita.  Only Germany is better.  There are many countries, both conservative and progressive, with universal health care and without, with their own experts that are having problems, too.   Per capita is the correct way to look at this data.

Do you honestly think in an election year that someone else would have shut things down quicker?  I do not.  Can provide examples from both sides that show that to be true.

Thank you for your unbiased, even perspective cheek...wait, no. Definitely not cheeks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 20, 2020, 05:32:19 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 20, 2020, 04:36:14 PM

Interesting...and pretty damning for the CDC that it was embedded and involved from the beginning, and yet messed up its test development efforts so badly. If CDC had developed and rolled out a test in late January or early February (when other countries were already successfully testing for the virus), we would be in a very different place than we are right now.

I don’t know if was just CDC‘s screwups,  or if the Trump administration‘s very public anti-science stance also played a role in disempowering them, but something is severely wrong there...

The WHO is no different.  This is why your continued insistence to have CDC run the show is not connecting with me.  Fauci has admitted a number of mistakes which is refreshing, but also concerning.  There is no simple playbook for this as much as people wish there was.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on April 20, 2020, 05:38:21 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 20, 2020, 05:32:19 PM

The WHO is no different.  This is why your continued insistence to have CDC run the show is not connecting with me.  Fauci has admitted a number of mistakes which is refreshing, but also concerning.  There is no simple playbook for this as much as people wish there was.

Well, it’s much simpler than “here are the guidelines for what we need to do to reopen the economy” one day and “go out and protest!” the next.

But wait. Let me guess. You can find contradicting messages from liberals too. Both sides. Not just one.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 20, 2020, 05:43:55 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 20, 2020, 05:32:19 PM

The WHO is no different.  This is why your continued insistence to have CDC run the show is not connecting with me.  Fauci has admitted a number of mistakes which is refreshing, but also concerning.  There is no simple playbook for this as much as people wish there was.

Fauci does not run nor has responsibility for the CDC.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 20, 2020, 06:05:40 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 20, 2020, 05:29:35 PM

Do you honestly think in an election year that someone else would have shut things down quicker?

How about be prepared in the first place, and then actually pay attention when the experts warn you of a developing pandemic?

Here is a detailed, sourced, blow-by-blow account of what lead up to this. I know conservative members won't read it, but maybe Both Sides WarriorDad will?

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/04/this-stunningly-detailed-timeline-of-trumps-failures-shows-americas-coronavirus-crisis-was-a-man-made-disaster/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 20, 2020, 06:44:43 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 20, 2020, 05:29:35 PM

Do you honestly think in an election year that someone else would have shut things down quicker? 

Abso-freaking-lutely.   Besides the fact it is right thing to do, three political reasons.
1.  Get it right, demonstrate competence and compassion and have demonstrably better numbers than the rest of the world.
2.   Demonstrate statesmanship.   'In a time like this, protecting the people of this country is more important than my re-election.'
3.  Neutralize your opponent by offering to put him to work, that it is all hands on deck.

Do that and it is Reagan-Mondale redux.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 20, 2020, 06:46:17 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 20, 2020, 05:32:19 PM

The WHO is no different.  This is why your continued insistence to have CDC run the show is not connecting with me.  Fauci has admitted a number of mistakes which is refreshing, but also concerning.  There is no simple playbook for this as much as people wish there was.

Sorry my comments about the CDC “aren’t connecting” with you. Perhaps you should read CDC’s mission statement, which I posted several pages back.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 20, 2020, 07:05:16 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 20, 2020, 05:29:35 PM

We also have the second lowest mortality rate in the industrialized world for COVID 19 per capita.  Only Germany is better.  There are many countries, both conservative and progressive, with universal health care and without, with their own experts that are having problems, too.   Per capita is the correct way to look at this data.

Do you honestly think in an election year that someone else would have shut things down quicker?  I do not.  Can provide examples from both sides that show that to be true.

What exactly did he shut down? Governors shut down their individual states or in some cases didn’t.
If you are talking about the “China travel ban” that was a joke, as the US carriers had already stopped and only prevented Chinese nationals from traveling from China.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 20, 2020, 07:08:04 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 20, 2020, 05:29:35 PM

We also have the second lowest mortality rate in the industrialized world for COVID 19 per capita.  Only Germany is better.  There are many countries, both conservative and progressive, with universal health care and without, with their own experts that are having problems, too.   Per capita is the correct way to look at this data.

What are you defining as industrialized world?

Even amongst the G8 (highly industrialized nations) we are behind Japan, Russia, Canada, and Germany, in that order. So we are in 5th place out of 8. Worldwide we are the 10th worst in terms of mortality rate per capita.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 20, 2020, 07:15:57 PM

Georgia looks to be at the front of the second wave by reopening many businesses even though the numbers are still increasing.

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/20/839338550/georgia-beginning-to-reopen-its-economy-lifting-some-coronavirus-crisis-limits

Then again, their well-informed governor  has always been right on top of this. Well...except for the fact that he was the last human with an internet connection to learn that COVID19 can be transmitted by asymptomatic carriers.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/georgia-gov-brian-kemp-admits-he-just-learned-asymptomatic-people-n1174976

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 20, 2020, 07:16:43 PM

I suspect he is calculating deaths/cases for this. Now if you use deaths/recovered we are near dead last.
You are using death/population.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 20, 2020, 07:40:51 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on April 20, 2020, 07:16:43 PM

I suspect he is calculating deaths/cases for this. Now if you use deaths/recovered we are near dead last.
You are using death/population.

I think this was in reply to my question. Even by deaths/case, which is a terrible metric to use, we are still 5th out of the G8.

I think he just made it up, or defined "industrialized" by whatever metric served his purpose.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 20, 2020, 08:10:39 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 20, 2020, 07:08:04 PM

What are you defining as industrialized world?

He's just misstating exactly what he heard in Trump's briefing from Saturday:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-members-coronavirus-task-force-press-briefing-2/

Quote

On a per capita basis — remember that: On a per capita basis, our mortality rate is far lower than other nations of Western Europe, with the lone exception of possibly Germany.  This includes the UK, Switzerland, Belgium, the Netherlands, Italy, France.  Spain, for example, has a mortality rate that is nearly four times that of the United States, but you don’t hear that.  You hear we have more death.  But we’re much bigger countries than any of those countries by far.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 20, 2020, 09:48:38 PM

Trump says he will issue an executive order suspending immigration.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/us/coronavirus-live-news.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

He is so confident that we have this solved that he calls to “liberate” states ASAP, but so concerned about the spread that he suspends immigration. Yeah - vilifying the “others” is gonna solve this....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 20, 2020, 09:58:00 PM

Well, this is *potentially* good news.  As noted, still not proven that the test is accurate or how long immunity lasts:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/20/coronavirus-antibody-testing-shows-la-county-outbreak-is-up-to-55-times-bigger-than-reported-cases.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 20, 2020, 10:29:45 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 20, 2020, 09:48:38 PM

Trump says he will issue an executive order suspending immigration.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/us/coronavirus-live-news.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

He is so confident that we have this solved that he calls to “liberate” states ASAP, but so concerned about the spread that he suspends immigration. Yeah - vilifying the “others” is gonna solve this....

60 million new folks unemployed, economy and citizens locked down, flights shut down from China and Europe, etc., etc., etc., - but temporarily suspending immigration in the midst of this is vilifying the “others”.

You’re all in with Governors who won’t allow their citizens to buy seeds, paint or go fishing (by themselves) but temporarily closing our borders is vilifying the “others”. Sheesh.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 20, 2020, 10:53:41 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 20, 2020, 10:29:45 PM

You’re all in with Governors who won’t allow their citizens to buy seeds, paint or go fishing (by themselves) but temporarily closing our borders is vilifying the “others”. Sheesh.

Which governors have done this?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 20, 2020, 11:09:51 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on April 20, 2020, 10:53:41 PM

Which governors have done this?

In Michigan large retailers are banned from selling seeds, paint, garden supplies, etc.. If you have a motor on your boat you are not allowed to go on any lakes for fishing, etc..

Lottery tickets sales continue. Some things are more essential than others.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 20, 2020, 11:13:45 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 20, 2020, 10:29:45 PM

60 million new folks unemployed, economy and citizens locked down, flights shut down from China and Europe, etc., etc., etc., - but temporarily suspending immigration in the midst of this is vilifying the “others”.

You’re all in with Governors who won’t allow their citizens to buy seeds, paint or go fishing (by themselves) but temporarily closing our borders is vilifying the “others”. Sheesh.

Yes - closing the borders when the virus is already rampant here and there is no evidence that current immigrants are increasing the spread is vilifying the “others.” It’s especially obvious given that he is simultaneously turning a blind eye to states that are reopening in contravention to his recent three-phase guidelines.

If he wants to make real progress in preventing further spread, he should tell the governors of South Carolina, Georgia and Tennessee to follow the guidelines that HE ISSUED JUST LAST WEEK, and then send out the test kits he keeps promising.

Honest yes or no question: Do you think it’s good for the country that he issued a very well-reasoned three-phase plan for reopening, and then: (1) tweeted about “liberating” several states that don’t meet the reopening criteria; and (2) ignores states that are openly contravening the guidelines?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 20, 2020, 11:20:08 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 20, 2020, 11:09:51 PM

In Michigan large retailers are banned from selling seeds, paint, garden supplies, etc.. If you have a motor on your boat you are not allowed to go on any lakes for fishing, etc..

Nope. You can buy paint, seeds and gardening supplies in Michigan.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/apr/15/facebook-posts/covid-order-doesnt-ban-gardening-or-sale-seeds-and/

And nope. You can go fishing in Michigan (including by yourself).

https://www.michigan.gov/coronavirus/0,9753,7-406-98810-523692--,00.html

And you said "governors" as far as my limited reading comprehension skills can tell.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 20, 2020, 11:37:45 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 20, 2020, 11:13:45 PM

Yes - closing the borders when the virus is already rampant here and there is no evidence that current immigrants are increasing the spread is vilifying the “others.” It’s especially obvious given that he is simultaneously turning a blind eye to states that are reopening in contravention to his recent three-phase guidelines.

If he wants to make real progress in preventing further spread, he should tell the governors of South Carolina, Georgia and Tennessee to follow the guidelines that HE ISSUED JUST LAST WEEK, and then send out the test kits he keeps promising.

Honest yes or no question: Do you think it’s good for the country that he issued a very well-reasoned three-phase plan for reopening, and then: (1) tweeted about “liberating” several states that don’t meet the reopening criteria; and (2) ignores states that are openly contravening the guidelines?

The virus is “rampant” in very small areas of our country. The denser the population, the closer to International airports, the more likely it is rampant. If we’re locking things down (quarantines when citizens go from state to state) what’s wrong with temporarily locking down our borders? Nobody is blaming the “others”, it’s a temporary safety thing that would make perfect sense to you under anyone else’s leadership.

On your last point, I think it’s frustrating, counter productive and wrong that Trump is sending mixed messages on reopening. He’s listening to Fauci on one hand and his economic team on the other but if he going to flip back and forth he needs to a) concede that’s what he’s doing and b) give sound reasons why. Highly unlikely.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 20, 2020, 11:43:43 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on April 20, 2020, 11:20:08 PM

Nope. You can buy paint, seeds and gardening supplies in Michigan.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/apr/15/facebook-posts/covid-order-doesnt-ban-gardening-or-sale-seeds-and/

And nope. You can go fishing in Michigan (including by yourself).

https://www.michigan.gov/coronavirus/0,9753,7-406-98810-523692--,00.html

And you said "governors" as far as my limited reading comprehension skills can tell.

As I said, the ban (still in place) is for large retailers.

Re fishing in a motorized boat, it’s possible she’s given in and revised her previous order.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 20, 2020, 11:51:36 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 20, 2020, 11:37:45 PM

The virus is “rampant” in very small areas of our country. The denser the population, the closer to International airports, the more likely it is rampant. If we’re locking things down (quarantines when citizens go from state to state) what’s wrong with temporarily locking down our borders? Nobody is blaming the “others”, it’s a temporary safety thing that would make perfect sense to you under anyone else’s leadership.

On your last point, I think it’s frustrating, counter productive and wrong that Trump is sending mixed messages on reopening. He’s listening to Fauci on one hand and his economic team on the other but if he going to flip back and forth he needs to a) concede that’s what he’s doing and b) give sound reasons why. Highly unlikely.

Have you double-checked the data on the underlined?

I have been keeping close tabs on MN (where I live) and the immediately surrounding states of WI, IA, ND and SD. Of those five states, MSP has the overwhelming majority of international passengers...and yet MN has the lowest per capita infection rate in the region by a WIDE MARGIN. Current data from Johns Hopkins:

SD: 190/100k residents
IA: 100/100k residents
ND: 82/100k residents
WI:  77/100k residents
MN: 44/100k residents

I also find it interesting that AL (whose governor was late to close, using the infamous line that “we are not California”) has a higher rate than - you guessed it - California.

AL: 104/100k residents
CA: 85/100k residents

Wanna guess which state has more recent immigrants?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 21, 2020, 12:14:04 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 20, 2020, 11:43:43 PM

As I said, the ban (still in place) is for large retailers.

And this is a nuance (for both sides). Certain sections of large stores have to be closed off. However there's no ban on selling items that may be in those sections. Just less likely people will buy if they can't get to the items themselves.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 21, 2020, 12:32:29 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 20, 2020, 11:51:36 PM

Have you double-checked the data on the underlined?

I have been keeping close tabs on MN (where I live) and the immediately surrounding states of WI, IA, ND and SD. Of those five states, MSP has the overwhelming majority of international passengers...and yet MN has the lowest per capita infection rate in the region by a WIDE MARGIN. Current data from Johns Hopkins:

SD: 190/100k residents
IA: 100/100k residents
ND: 82/100k residents
WI:  77/100k residents
MN: 44/100k residents

I also find it interesting that AL (whose governor was late to close, using the infamous line that “we are not California”) has a higher rate than - you guessed it - California.

AL: 104/100k residents
CA: 85/100k residents

Wanna guess which state has more recent immigrants?

We have different definitions of “rampant”. Six (6) people have died in S Dakota from Covid19 (They did have an outbreak at a meat packing plant, I think - but I think it was contained) and they’ve pretty much stayed open for business.

Statistics are funny. If you have a penny and I give you another one you’ve increased your net worth by 100%!!! But you still only have 2 cents. To me rampant is New York City and to a lesser extent Detroit, Chicago, and other cities.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on April 21, 2020, 12:39:54 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 21, 2020, 12:32:29 AM

We have different definitions of “rampant”. Six (6) people have died in S Dakota from Covid19 (They did have an outbreak at a meat packing plant, I think - but I think it was contained) and they’ve pretty much stayed open for business.

Statistics are funny. If you have a penny and I give you another one you’ve increased your net worth by 100%!!! But you still only have 2 cents. To me rampant is New York City and to a lesser extent Detroit, Chicago, and other cities.

Statistics aren't funny.  It's even less funny when people like you ignore and try to twist data.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 21, 2020, 05:42:01 AM

We don’t need to argue about the facts.

Here is a nytimes tool that goes to the county level.

 https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/new-york-coronavirus-cases.html (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/new-york-coronavirus-cases.html)

Lenny by your own definition, NYC is not the most ‘rampant’ in NY state. NO is more rampant than NYC.  And your impression is right, dtw is relatively better off. But not to the county in SD that has an outbreak-they are relatively similar.   

How did it get there anyway?

You want to see rampant. Check out rural counties in GA.  Not quite NY State bad, but worse than NYC. 

Edit.  This points out that we really need to get better in our data collection now that this is lasting longer.  Need active cases so we collectively know when current outbreaks are worrisome.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Sir Lawrence on April 21, 2020, 06:45:50 AM

Oktoberfest cancelled.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 21, 2020, 07:04:21 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 20, 2020, 11:43:43 PM

As I said, the ban (still in place) is for large retailers.

Re fishing in a motorized boat, it’s possible she’s given in and revised her previous order.

Fishing from shore or in a non-motorized boat.   Picking up seeds, paint, stain today.   Gun ranges and stores essential.   Construction, departments other than grocery in big box stores, non-essential.
So perhaps the ban didn't go far enough?   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 21, 2020, 07:11:04 AM

I think it's a real problem that there is an attempt to divide people with incorrect facts/data.  At least we were all Jesuit educated and look for multiple sources before making conclusions.  I fear Jesuit's didn't get to enough people though...

While the last four/five weeks were the most unprecedented in my life.  I think the next 4 will be more interesting & challenging.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 21, 2020, 07:23:11 AM

Article on the undercount of deaths related to COVID
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_NN_p_20200421&instance_id=17817&nl=morning-briefing&regi_id=98421546&section=topNews&segment_id=25631&te=1&user_id=65badcb7c07b4cd4815fe5e758510381

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 21, 2020, 07:25:28 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 20, 2020, 11:43:43 PM

As I said, the ban (still in place) is for large retailers.

Re fishing in a motorized boat, it’s possible she’s given in and revised her previous order.

No, Lenny, what you wrote was "You're all in with Governors who won’t allow their citizens to buy seeds, paint or go fishing (by themselves)."
You added qualifiers about large retailers  - which still isn't true, because delivery and curbside  - and motorized boats, because you couldn't find any governor who'd done all you claimed, much less more than one governor.
Debating the value of the ongoing restrictions is fair game and even valuable, but making things up to attack others should be beneath you.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 21, 2020, 07:27:42 AM

Quote from: tower912 on April 20, 2020, 06:44:43 PM

Abso-freaking-lutely.   Besides the fact it is right thing to do, three political reasons.
1.  Get it right, demonstrate competence and compassion and have demonstrably better numbers than the rest of the world.
2.   Demonstrate statesmanship.   'In a time like this, protecting the people of this country is more important than my re-election.'
3.  Neutralize your opponent by offering to put him to work, that it is all hands on deck.

Do that and it is Reagan-Mondale redux.

The evidence shows that this is in fact the case. Those governors that showed leadership--and just for you ChicosDad, on both sides--have had big bumps in popularity and job approval ratings. Governors like DeSantis not so much.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 21, 2020, 07:34:10 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 20, 2020, 10:29:45 PM

60 million new folks unemployed, economy and citizens locked down, flights shut down from China and Europe, etc., etc., etc., - but temporarily suspending immigration in the midst of this is vilifying the “others”.

You’re all in with Governors who won’t allow their citizens to buy seeds, paint or go fishing (by themselves) but temporarily closing our borders is vilifying the “others”. Sheesh.

I am all for Governors being aggressive in shutting things down who may have to back off such regulations later. Better than opening things up too early which I fear is what is happening in Florida and Georgia. I think midwestern governors, both Democratic and Republican, are handling this way better than those from the south.

And yes, shutting down legal immigration is an awful, awful reaction to this.  These are people who would actually have jobs and help to stimulate our economy when things do open back up.

That's a good thing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 21, 2020, 08:00:12 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 20, 2020, 11:43:43 PM

As I said, the ban (still in place) is for large retailers.

Re fishing in a motorized boat, it’s possible she’s given in and revised her previous order.

Actually, this is one of the strange things in the Michigan order:  kayaking and conoeing are allowed (https://www.michigan.gov/whitmer/0,9309,7-387-90499_90705-525182--,00.html), motorboats are not (https://www.13abc.com/content/news/Boating-banned-in--569596981.html).  I have no doubt that the rationale behind this is that the focus for exempted activities is that they are physical and more focused on getting exercise.  But, I do think that it doesn't make sense to prohibit an activity that could be safely done while complying with social distancing guidelines.  It's good that governors recognize the importance of physical exercise and well-being and have created exemptions to allow that.  I think some could do a better job of recognizing the importance of psychological well-being and allow other activities that can be done safely.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 21, 2020, 08:41:08 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 21, 2020, 12:32:29 AM

We have different definitions of “rampant”. Six (6) people have died in S Dakota from Covid19 (They did have an outbreak at a meat packing plant, I think - but I think it was contained) and they’ve pretty much stayed open for business.

Statistics are funny. If you have a penny and I give you another one you’ve increased your net worth by 100%!!! But you still only have 2 cents. To me rampant is New York City and to a lesser extent Detroit, Chicago, and other cities.

Yes, we do. I will stick with the dictionary, and you can stick with numbers that look big. "Rampant:" flourishing or spreading unchecked. The rates are increasing much more rapidly ("spreading unchecked") in areas like ND, SD and the like than in NY.

Also, before they had the outbreak at the meat packing plant in SD, their numbers were already 3x as high as in MN; now they are 4x. And even without a specific site like the plant, ND, IA and WI also have far higher numbers than MN. In other words, your theory about rural areas away from international airports isn't supported by the numbers, and wasn't even before the plant outbreak. Frenn's and others have also done a good job of showing that your urban/rural divide doesn't hold up...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 21, 2020, 08:47:08 AM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 21, 2020, 08:00:12 AM

Actually, this is one of the strange things in the Michigan order:  kayaking and conoeing are allowed (https://www.michigan.gov/whitmer/0,9309,7-387-90499_90705-525182--,00.html), motorboats are not (https://www.13abc.com/content/news/Boating-banned-in--569596981.html).  I have no doubt that the rationale behind this is that the focus for exempted activities is that they are physical and more focused on getting exercise.  But, I do think that it doesn't make sense to prohibit an activity that could be safely done while complying with social distancing guidelines.  It's good that governors recognize the importance of physical exercise and well-being and have created exemptions to allow that.  I think some could do a better job of recognizing the importance of psychological well-being and allow other activities that can be done safely.

I suspect that it is like here in Florida, where people in motor boats raft up together.  It isn't the actual boating per se, it is just the activities resulting from it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 21, 2020, 09:21:48 AM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 21, 2020, 08:00:12 AM

Actually, this is one of the strange things in the Michigan order:  kayaking and conoeing are allowed (https://www.michigan.gov/whitmer/0,9309,7-387-90499_90705-525182--,00.html), motorboats are not (https://www.13abc.com/content/news/Boating-banned-in--569596981.html).  I have no doubt that the rationale behind this is that the focus for exempted activities is that they are physical and more focused on getting exercise.  But, I do think that it doesn't make sense to prohibit an activity that could be safely done while complying with social distancing guidelines.  It's good that governors recognize the importance of physical exercise and well-being and have created exemptions to allow that.  I think some could do a better job of recognizing the importance of psychological well-being and allow other activities that can be done safely.

I wonder if it's partly based on the difference between what people "could" do while social distancing vs what people "will" do while social distancing?

Take the beaches in Jax. They were opened, with the caveat that people still adhere to social distancing guidelines. Any quick google search will show that people aren't adhering to those guidelines.

Now apply it to boats. Kayaks and canoes typically are made for one or two people max, and (even in normal times) are often used by people who want to get away from others. Motorized boats, on the other hand, generally hold more people, and are often used for activities with others - fishing, waterskiing, hanging around drinking beer, etc. (I said "often" because I know there are exceptions...but broad and difficult-to-enforce rules have to look at generalities because there simply aren't enough DNR officials to enforce social distancing.) Are different rules justified? I don't know. Still, I can see why a distinction might be drawn between kayaks/canoes and motorized boats.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 21, 2020, 09:33:47 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 21, 2020, 09:21:48 AM

I wonder if it's partly based on the difference between what people "could" do while social distancing vs what people "will" do while social distancing?

Take the beaches in Jax. They were opened, with the caveat that people still adhere to social distancing guidelines. Any quick google search will show that people aren't adhering to those guidelines.

Now apply it to boats. Kayaks and canoes typically are made for one or two people max, and (even in normal times) are often used by people who want to get away from others. Motorized boats, on the other hand, generally hold more people, and are often used for activities with others - fishing, waterskiing, hanging around drinking beer, etc. (I said "often" because I know there are exceptions...but broad and difficult-to-enforce rules have to look at generalities because there simply aren't enough DNR officials to enforce social distancing.) Are different rules justified? I don't know. Still, I can see why a distinction might be drawn between kayaks/canoes and motorized boats.

Yeah, I think this is it.
Boating generally is a group activity, and most boats don't allow for reasonable distancing. Kayaking, paddleboarding, etc., are usually solo activities.
For the guy who wants to take his boat out alone to cast for some largemouth, that sucks. But I'm not sure law enforcement has the resources, or should expend the resources is has at this time, counting the number of people on boats.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 21, 2020, 09:45:01 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 21, 2020, 09:21:48 AM

I wonder if it's partly based on the difference between what people "could" do while social distancing vs what people "will" do while social distancing?

Take the beaches in Jax. They were opened, with the caveat that people still adhere to social distancing guidelines. Any quick google search will show that people aren't adhering to those guidelines.

Now apply it to boats. Kayaks and canoes typically are made for one or two people max, and (even in normal times) are often used by people who want to get away from others. Motorized boats, on the other hand, generally hold more people, and are often used for activities with others - fishing, waterskiing, hanging around drinking beer, etc. (I said "often" because I know there are exceptions...but broad and difficult-to-enforce rules have to look at generalities because there simply aren't enough DNR officials to enforce social distancing.) Are different rules justified? I don't know. Still, I can see why a distinction might be drawn between kayaks/canoes and motorized boats.

Honestly, I think the primary distinction is what I posited:  physical activity.  I don't necessarily agree with that distinction.  I think there are plenty of people who have bass boats and would happily go out alone (or with someone from their house) and fish.  I don't really have a big issue with this aspect of the Michigan order, but I also am not a big fan of banning activities because people might violate the limits that you set.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 21, 2020, 09:51:26 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 20, 2020, 11:09:51 PM

In Michigan large retailers are banned from selling seeds, paint, garden supplies, etc.. If you have a motor on your boat you are not allowed to go on any lakes for fishing, etc..

Lottery tickets sales continue. Some things are more essential than others.

Here is a response from a Michigan nurse on FB:

RESPONSE FROM A MICHIGAN NURSE TO PEOPLE PROTESTING ABOUT "STAY AT HOME"

I have seen 4 patients die, 5 intubated, 2 re-intubated, witnessed family consent to make 2 more patients DNR, sweat my butt off during COPT, titrated so many drips to no avail, watched vent settings increase to no avail. We are exhausted and at a total loss. Some of you people have never done everything you can to save someone and watched them die, and it shows….

You wanna complain because the Garden Aisle is closed? Your garden doesn’t matter. If killing your plants would bring back my patients, I would pillage the crap out of your “essential” garden beds..

Upset because you can’t go boating, in Michigan? You wanna tell my patient’s daughter (who was sobbing as she said goodbye to her father over the PHONE) about your FIRST-WORLD problems.
Upset because you can’t go to your cottage up north? Your cottage…your second property… used for leisure. My coworkers can’t even stay in their regular homes. Most have been staying in hotels and dorms not able to see their spouses or babies.

All of these posts, petitions online to evade “TYRANNY” it’s all such bullcrap. I’m sorry you’re bored and have nothing to do but bitch and moan. You wanna pick up a couple of hours for me?

Yeah, didn’t think so.

I wouldn’t trust most of you with patient care anyway. Not just because of the selfish lack of humanity your posts exude, but because most of those posts and petitions are so riddled with misspellings and grammatical errors, that it makes me question your cognitive capacity.

Shout out to my coworkers, the real MVPs.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on April 21, 2020, 09:52:57 AM

So it looks like Georgia will be opening up.  Right in the CDC's own backyard.  So hopefully an analysis can be done to see the impacts of doing so.  I am not an epidemiologist to know whether Georgia can model what the impacts would be on the rest of the country (whether it is a good model in terms of cities, rural areas, etc.) but it will be interesting.

Let's just hope that if cases stabilize and deaths stabilize that we can open things up elsewhere,  and if cases/deaths surge we don't go into denial mode that we should still open up.  This again, assumes Georgia is a decent model for elsewhere.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on April 21, 2020, 09:55:25 AM

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1188606

Shocked to see that there are cases linked to the inane decision to hold the elections in Wisconsin.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 21, 2020, 10:01:10 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on April 21, 2020, 09:51:26 AM

Here is a response from a Michigan nurse on FB:

RESPONSE FROM A MICHIGAN NURSE TO PEOPLE PROTESTING ABOUT "STAY AT HOME"

I have seen 4 patients die, 5 intubated, 2 re-intubated, witnessed family consent to make 2 more patients DNR, sweat my butt off during COPT, titrated so many drips to no avail, watched vent settings increase to no avail. We are exhausted and at a total loss. Some of you people have never done everything you can to save someone and watched them die, and it shows….

You wanna complain because the Garden Aisle is closed? Your garden doesn’t matter. If killing your plants would bring back my patients, I would pillage the crap out of your “essential” garden beds..

Upset because you can’t go boating, in Michigan? You wanna tell my patient’s daughter (who was sobbing as she said goodbye to her father over the PHONE) about your FIRST-WORLD problems.
Upset because you can’t go to your cottage up north? Your cottage…your second property… used for leisure. My coworkers can’t even stay in their regular homes. Most have been staying in hotels and dorms not able to see their spouses or babies.

All of these posts, petitions online to evade “TYRANNY” it’s all such bullcrap. I’m sorry you’re bored and have nothing to do but bitch and moan. You wanna pick up a couple of hours for me?

Yeah, didn’t think so.

I wouldn’t trust most of you with patient care anyway. Not just because of the selfish lack of humanity your posts exude, but because most of those posts and petitions are so riddled with misspellings and grammatical errors, that it makes me question your cognitive capacity.

Shout out to my coworkers, the real MVPs.

If you can explain to me how not allowing fisherman on lakes in boats with motors would have saved any of those lives I’ll gladly change my opinion. I don’t think the two have anything to do with one another.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 21, 2020, 10:04:49 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on April 21, 2020, 09:51:26 AM

Here is a response from a Michigan nurse on FB:

RESPONSE FROM A MICHIGAN NURSE TO PEOPLE PROTESTING ABOUT "STAY AT HOME"

I have seen 4 patients die, 5 intubated, 2 re-intubated, witnessed family consent to make 2 more patients DNR, sweat my butt off during COPT, titrated so many drips to no avail, watched vent settings increase to no avail. We are exhausted and at a total loss. Some of you people have never done everything you can to save someone and watched them die, and it shows….

You wanna complain because the Garden Aisle is closed? Your garden doesn’t matter. If killing your plants would bring back my patients, I would pillage the crap out of your “essential” garden beds..

Upset because you can’t go boating, in Michigan? You wanna tell my patient’s daughter (who was sobbing as she said goodbye to her father over the PHONE) about your FIRST-WORLD problems.
Upset because you can’t go to your cottage up north? Your cottage…your second property… used for leisure. My coworkers can’t even stay in their regular homes. Most have been staying in hotels and dorms not able to see their spouses or babies.

All of these posts, petitions online to evade “TYRANNY” it’s all such bullcrap. I’m sorry you’re bored and have nothing to do but bitch and moan. You wanna pick up a couple of hours for me?

Yeah, didn’t think so.

I wouldn’t trust most of you with patient care anyway. Not just because of the selfish lack of humanity your posts exude, but because most of those posts and petitions are so riddled with misspellings and grammatical errors, that it makes me question your cognitive capacity.

Shout out to my coworkers, the real MVPs.

I get it.  And I have seen a ton of similar posts, but they aren't helpful at furthering discussion any more than the protests are.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 21, 2020, 10:10:53 AM

Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on April 21, 2020, 09:55:25 AM

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1188606

Shocked to see that there are cases linked to the inane decision to hold the elections in Wisconsin.

I would actually look at the glass half full on this if cases are not surging so close to the two week mark.  It shows we can open things up to some degree if everyone remains smart and vigilant about social distancing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 21, 2020, 10:20:26 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 21, 2020, 10:04:49 AM

I get it.  And I have seen a ton of similar posts, but they aren't helpful at furthering discussion any more than the protests are.

Exposing the general public to the realities of the virus and what people are dealing with to fight it may reframe the discussion around what's important, and maybe even introduce the protestors to a little perspective. That's definitely helpful.
Perhaps it can be done a little gentler, with more of an aim toward educating and less "you're an idiot," but it may at least lead some to question exactly why they're so very upset about a temporary ban on fishing from a motorized boat.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on April 21, 2020, 10:20:59 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 21, 2020, 10:10:53 AM

I would actually look at the glass half full on this if cases are not surging so close to the two week mark.  It shows we can open things up to some degree if everyone remains smart and vigilant about social distancing.

Well we know it’ll be far more than 7 cases. The problem with the decision to hold that election was it was a clear effort to suppress votes and it also put people in unnecessary danger. It could have been avoided.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on April 21, 2020, 10:21:52 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 21, 2020, 10:01:10 AM

If you can explain to me how not allowing fisherman on lakes in boats with motors would have saved any of those lives I’ll gladly change my opinion. I don’t think the two have anything to do with one another.

This was just explained in multiple other posts.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 21, 2020, 10:26:21 AM

Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on April 21, 2020, 10:20:59 AM

Well we know it’ll be far more than 7 cases. The problem with the decision to hold that election was it was a clear effort to suppress votes and it also put people in unnecessary danger. It could have been avoided.

Yes we do.  We also know that people will catch this no matter what we do.  We need a system to detect spread and immunity, methods to slow it down, and mechanisms to ensure our hospital system doesn't get overwhelmed.

While I dont agree with the decision to hold an election, we can learn that maybe there is somewhere in between lock it down and the old days utilizing a better system once the virus is in control in some places.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 21, 2020, 10:28:52 AM

Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on April 21, 2020, 10:21:52 AM

This was just explained in multiple other posts.

Dumb explanations for a dumb policy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 21, 2020, 10:35:47 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 21, 2020, 10:01:10 AM

If you can explain to me how not allowing fisherman on lakes in boats with motors would have saved any of those lives I’ll gladly change my opinion. I don’t think the two have anything to do with one another.

It was enacted because people across the entire state were using boating to willfully violate the social distancing guidelines, both on recreational boats, and at boat landings. That willful violation of the social distancing guidelines was going to cost lives.

She then put a blanket order out banning motorized recreational vehicle use, to cut down on this, as it is easier to police a blanket shutdown, than trying to police specific aspects.

It was untenable, so they quickly carved out exceptions for fishing.

To me it seems like a person over-reacting, in an effort to save lives (it would have saved lives). Then realizing an error, taking ownership of that error, and changing the policy. Could she have handled it better, yeah, but at least she changed the mistake. I give her a B/B-, in her handling of this.

Isn't that how we want leaders to lead? Take ownership and correct actions when they make a mistake in a crisis? And to err on the side of saving lives if they are going to make a mistake?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on April 21, 2020, 10:38:21 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 21, 2020, 10:26:21 AM

Yes we do.  We also know that people will catch this no matter what we do.  We need a system to detect spread and immunity, methods to slow it down, and mechanisms to ensure our hospital system doesn't get overwhelmed.

While I dont agree with the decision to hold an election, we can learn that maybe there is somewhere in between lock it down and the old days utilizing a better system once the virus is in control in some places.

I’m definitely not disagreeing that we shouldn’t learn something from a bad decision. I’m saying that the fact that we may be able to learn something doesn’t mean it wasn’t an absolutely horrendous decision.  It doesn’t change that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on April 21, 2020, 10:40:07 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 21, 2020, 10:28:52 AM

Dumb explanations for a dumb policy.

Nope. Logical explanations for an understandable policy. Unfortunately you have to limit the ability of stupid people to do stupid things.  Sad but true.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 21, 2020, 10:40:20 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 21, 2020, 10:01:10 AM

If you can explain to me how not allowing fisherman on lakes in boats with motors would have saved any of those lives I’ll gladly change my opinion. I don’t think the two have anything to do with one another.

Florida boats raft up during the shutdown:
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/03/23/13/26296184-8142679-image-m-4_1584969926084.jpg)

Lakes in Michigan (not during the lockdown)
(https://assets3.thrillist.com/v1/image/2776978/792x527/crop;jpeg_quality=60.jpg)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 21, 2020, 10:45:27 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on April 21, 2020, 10:20:26 AM

Exposing the general public to the realities of the virus and what people are dealing with to fight it may reframe the discussion around what's important, and maybe even introduce the protestors to a little perspective. That's definitely helpful.

But that's not what she is trying to do.  She is trying to shame those who are upset about the restrictions.  Using phrases like "first world problems" is going to cause people to roll their eyes, not change their behavior.  Because as Lenny pointed out, unless those cases are linked in some ways to boating or to a second home, it's not all that relevant to what people are upset about.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 21, 2020, 10:50:23 AM

Isn't a pretty simple solution to this problem saying that no more than two people in a boat and they must be immediate family members?  Anyone caught with any sort of flotilla godzilla situation will be fined heavily, have their fishing license revoked, and boat registration suspended for 3 years?

Look, people are going to do stupid things no matter what.  Better to incentivize them to not do stupid things, but allow them to do reasonable things.  Like fish in a motor boat with another person from their family.  Which is perfectly safe.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 21, 2020, 10:57:30 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 21, 2020, 10:50:23 AM

Isn't a pretty simple solution to this problem saying that no more than two people in a boat and they must be immediate family members?  Anyone caught with any sort of flotilla godzilla situation will be fined heavily, have their fishing license revoked, and boat registration suspended for 3 years?

Look, people are going to do stupid things no matter what.  Better to incentivize them to not do stupid things, but allow them to do reasonable things.  Like fish in a motor boat with another person from their family.  Which is perfectly safe.

That sounds perfectly reasonable, but also difficult/impossible to enforce. I have to imagine law enforcement has more pressing things to do right now than count people on boats or ask for IDs to make sure they're co-habitating family members.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 21, 2020, 11:01:54 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 21, 2020, 10:45:27 AM

But that's not what she is trying to do.  She is trying to shame those who are upset about the restrictions.  Using phrases like "first world problems" is going to cause people to roll their eyes, not change their behavior.  Because as Lenny pointed out, unless those cases are linked in some ways to boating or to a second home, it's not all that relevant to what people are upset about.

Do you really believe boating restrictions and the inability to buy paint at Lowe's are what is motivating these protests?
And Gamergate was motivated by ethics in journalism.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 21, 2020, 11:05:32 AM

Second home rationale:  Mayor's in Northern Michigan (not sherrifs) are begging people to not go up to their summer cabins right now.   Because the medical infrastructure is sized for the population of the year round residents and not the summer tourist population.   They don't want more people, asymptomatic but infected, or not presenting yet, flooding their groceries and creating a wave of infection they are ill-equipped to deal with.

I can make the case governor Gretchen has gone a little too far in small specific instances and has as yet shown a lack of flexibility.   You wanna argue for motorised fishing boats?  Ok.   Landscaping, construction?   Reasonable arguments.   But nobody is going to her with reasonable arguments.

The paradigm I have been referencing is this.   Gretchen is a strict mom of teenagers.   Her kids (the populace at large) were threatened and she grounded them all and confined them to their room.   When you threaten that mom or sit there and do nothing but whine and complain like entitled teenagers, she will dig in her heels and you will get nowhere.    The only thing that might work is non-critical, rational reasoning.   

She believes with every fiber of her being that she is taking steps to protect the citizens.   Make a rational, logical case for specific things and see what happens.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 21, 2020, 11:12:17 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on April 21, 2020, 11:01:54 AM

Do you really believe boating restrictions and the inability to buy paint at Lowe's are what is motivating these protests?

Tell her that then.  She was the one who brought the protestors up in the first place.

I simply think that telling the guy who is frustrated that he can't go fishing, but not proteting about it, isn't going to be persuaded by someone preaching at him that he has "first world problems." 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 21, 2020, 11:12:50 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 21, 2020, 10:50:23 AM

Isn't a pretty simple solution to this problem saying that no more than two people in a boat and they must be immediate family members?  Anyone caught with any sort of flotilla godzilla situation will be fined heavily, have their fishing license revoked, and boat registration suspended for 3 years?

Look, people are going to do stupid things no matter what.  Better to incentivize them to not do stupid things, but allow them to do reasonable things.  Like fish in a motor boat with another person from their family.  Which is perfectly safe.

Exactly.  This would not be "impossible to enforce" any more than telling people that they can only walk, run, kayak, canoe, etc. with people from their own household.  Actually, probably a lot easier to enforce than those other things.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 21, 2020, 11:19:46 AM

Quote from: tower912 on April 21, 2020, 11:05:32 AM

I can make the case governor Gretchen has gone a little too far in small specific instances and has as yet shown a lack of flexibility.   You wanna argue for motorised fishing boats?  Ok.   Landscaping, construction?   Reasonable arguments.   But nobody is going to her with reasonable arguments.

This illustrates the best point:  we should not reflexively defend or criticize any of these politicians.  I think certain aspects of the Michigan order go too far.  I think other aspects are reasonable and necessary. But I think what we continue to see is that some people are attacking "that woman" just because Trump attacked her. And others are reflexively defending her just because Trump attacked her.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 21, 2020, 11:28:12 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 21, 2020, 11:12:17 AM

Tell her that then.  She was the one who brought the protestors up in the first place.

I simply think that telling the guy who is frustrated that he can't go fishing, but not proteting about it, isn't going to be persuaded by someone preaching at him that he has "first world problems."

I think you're incorrectly lumping in the "frustrated" with the protestors. I'm frustrated by many of the restrictions and even more frustrated with the negative consequences - including financial consequences - they're having on my life. This is a fair and reasonable response, one I imagine everyone is experiencing to one degree or another. And I don't think that's who she's addressing in her post.

Gathering in a large crowd during a pandemic to march on the state capitol because I'm frustrated over missing a few weeks of trout season is a stupid and unreasonable response. And if the best scientific minds in the world aren't going to persuade those people to behave better, I'm not sure why you would place the onus on a frustrated nurse. These people don't want to be persuaded and definitely won't be persuaded by being nice.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 21, 2020, 11:28:44 AM

Exactly, SaW.   I don't think there is a perfect strategy right now.    I can easily make the case that some of Governor Gretchen's prohibitions go too far.  However, she is doing it from a perspective of social distancing is the only real tool she has right now.    So she put out a very thorough blanket policy.     It isn't perfect.   But, if I was in charge and tailored exactly as I see fit, it would not be perfect and there would still be Don't Tread on Me flags and Confederate flags being waved by people with AR 15's on their back.    And while they have the right to their opinion, I have the right to consider them bat-crap (appropriate considering the origin) crazy and ignore their opinion.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 21, 2020, 11:42:24 AM

Sorry boys, it's your balls.

(Apologies if this has already been posted)

https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-04-18/do-testicles-make-men-more-vulnerable-to-coronavirus
A group of researchers led by an oncologist in New York and her mother, a microbiologist in Mumbai, has put forth a hypothesis it acknowledges is highly preliminary: that the testes may harbor the SARS-CoV-2 virus in men, providing it sanctuary from the immune system.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 21, 2020, 11:46:25 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on April 21, 2020, 10:57:30 AM

That sounds perfectly reasonable, but also difficult/impossible to enforce. I have to imagine law enforcement has more pressing things to do right now than count people on boats or ask for IDs to make sure they're co-habitating family members.

Well, they're certainly still out trying to catch speeders, so I imagine they have some time on their hands.  Very expensive penalties make it worth their time.

Tie a reward for reporting violators, or add security cameras to boat landings.  They'd be good to have anyway, and I'd be willing to bet they already exist in some of the more busy launches already.  Someone sees something, reports it, and footage can be brought up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 21, 2020, 11:51:47 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 21, 2020, 11:46:25 AM

Well, they're certainly still out trying to catch speeders, so I imagine they have some time on their hands.  Very expensive penalties make it worth their time.

Tie a reward for reporting violators, or add security cameras to boat landings.  They'd be good to have anyway, and I'd be willing to bet they already exist in some of the more busy launches already.  Someone sees something, reports it, and footage can be brought up.

The problem is there are a lot out there with nothing better to do than report people. Leading to a lot of wasted time and resources.

An example, a gym owner I know was reported twice, and police had to come out and investigate, for him personally going to his gym to get files. People saying the gym was open.

Bottom line, there is no perfect solution.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 21, 2020, 12:00:54 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 21, 2020, 11:51:47 AM

The problem is there are a lot out there with nothing better to do than report people. Leading to a lot of wasted time and resources.

An example, a gym owner I know was reported twice, and police had to come out and investigate, for him personally going to his gym to get files. People saying the gym was open.

Bottom line, there is no perfect solution.

A church near me was reported when someone drove by on a Sunday morning and saw the parking lot full of cars.
The church, since it's closed, is letting a car rental service store excess vehicles in its lot.

But hey, if allowing people to fish in motorized boats and buy paint at Home Depot will end the stupid protests, then we should do that. But it won't end the stupid protests because the stupid protests aren't about the restrictions any more than the birther movement was about the Constitution.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 21, 2020, 12:11:34 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on April 21, 2020, 11:28:12 AM

And if the best scientific minds in the world aren't going to persuade those people to behave better, I'm not sure why you would place the onus on a frustrated nurse.

I'm not placing the onus on her.  I said that posts like hers aren't helpful for futhering discussion.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 21, 2020, 12:44:37 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 21, 2020, 10:28:52 AM

Dumb explanations for a dumb policy.

Now you're letting the stress get to you.

You may not like my explanation, but it wasn't dumb, nor were the others you chose to ignore.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 21, 2020, 12:51:42 PM

It's pretty amazing that people are ripping a post from an overworked and overwhelmed nurse, just because they can't go out on their boats.

Plenty of rational explanations have been given for the bans, and you can agree with them or not, because there is no answer that will make everyone happy. But criticizing a post from an overwhelmed nurse who is frantically trying to save lives? Just pathetic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 21, 2020, 01:02:33 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 21, 2020, 12:51:42 PM

It's pretty amazing that people are ripping a post from an overworked and overwhelmed nurse, just because they can't go out on their boats.

Plenty of rational explanations have been given for the bans, and you can agree with them or not, because there is no answer that will make everyone happy. But criticizing a post from an overwhelmed nurse who is frantically trying to save lives? Just pathetic.

Who is doing that?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 21, 2020, 01:05:49 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 21, 2020, 12:11:34 PM

I'm not placing the onus on her.  I said that posts like hers aren't helpful for futhering discussion.

And yet here we are ...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 21, 2020, 01:08:20 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 21, 2020, 01:02:33 PM

Who is doing that?

Someone hacked into your account and said she wasn't being helpful, she was just causing people to roll their eyes, and such. Saying that a deadly serious post from a well-informed nurse isn't helpful and causes people to just roll their eyes is ripping the post.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 21, 2020, 01:23:23 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 21, 2020, 01:08:20 PM

Someone hacked into your account and said she wasn't being helpful, she was just causing people to roll their eyes, and such. Saying that a deadly serious post from a well-informed nurse isn't helpful and causes people to just roll their eyes is ripping the post.

Sorry.  If her intention was to change people's minds, I doubt it helped.  If that's "pathetic" in your eyes....oh well... Hopefully she won't take offense.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 21, 2020, 01:26:17 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on April 21, 2020, 01:05:49 PM

And yet here we are ...

Yes here we are.  Not debating the merits of her argument, of which I think she is spot on, just the effectiveness of it, which I think is minimal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 21, 2020, 01:33:29 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 21, 2020, 01:23:23 PM

Sorry.  If her intention was to change people's minds, I doubt it helped.  If that's "pathetic" in your eyes....oh well... Hopefully she won't take offense.

Re-read the post. I just did, while asking myself the question "what was she trying to accomplish?"

My conclusion: The tone and outright anger tells me that she wasn't trying to change peoples' minds, that she believed that would be futile anyway. Instead, I saw her simply trying to give us a clearer picture of what she and her colleagues saw every day, emotions and all. Venting, but with real-life facts.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 21, 2020, 01:49:34 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 21, 2020, 01:33:29 PM

Re-read the post. I just did, while asking myself the question "what was she trying to accomplish?"

My conclusion: The tone and outright anger tells me that she wasn't trying to change peoples' minds, that she believed that would be futile anyway. Instead, I saw her simply trying to give us a clearer picture of what she and her colleagues saw every day, emotions and all. Venting, but with real-life facts.

And that's fine.  Hell, I don't really care what her intent was anyway.  She can post whatever she wants for whatever reason.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 21, 2020, 02:46:06 PM

Does anyone else find themselves watching a show an TV and thinking, "Oh, they're too close together...they need to move farther apart."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 21, 2020, 02:58:11 PM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 21, 2020, 02:46:06 PM

Does anyone else find themselves watching a show an TV and thinking, "Oh, they're too close together...they need to move farther apart."

Totally -- I was watching two people eat streetfood in a NYC park and almost lost it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 21, 2020, 03:11:39 PM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 21, 2020, 02:46:06 PM

Does anyone else find themselves watching a show an TV and thinking, "Oh, they're too close together...they need to move farther apart."

Porn punchline here.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 21, 2020, 03:22:51 PM

This was the lead article on Foxnews this morning.

https://www.foxnews.com/health/us-records-lowest-coronavirus-related-deaths-in-2-weeks

I'm confused by articles like this. It misreported the number of deaths yesterday, discussed how death had fallen dramatically from the high a few days earlier (high reported as 4591), and discuss it from the standpoint of falling numbers to support reopening.

The number of deaths yesterday was reported incorrectly. They mislead on the peak deaths of 4591, which included previous deaths not accounted for, and implied things were drastically improving.

There is a chance we set a new record high for deaths today (actual deaths that doesn't include old numbers as corrections). Things are a long way from being improved. Articles like that are not helpful.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on April 21, 2020, 03:24:14 PM

Are we able to draw any conclusions from essential businesses as far as how potent things opening up will be? In Wisconsin, it seems most manufacturing is essential and have people working. At the companies my wife and I work at, they are taking precautions to minimize contact.

For instance, I believe there’s a meat processing plant that has a large number cases based on a post here. However, are most businesses not seeing too much of a spike? Just curious if we have any data points that would be a microcosm of what this looks like when we “re-open.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on April 21, 2020, 03:28:17 PM

Quote from: cheebs09 on April 21, 2020, 03:24:14 PM

Are we able to draw any conclusions from essential businesses as far as how potent things opening up will be? In Wisconsin, it seems most manufacturing is essential and have people working. At the companies my wife and I work at, they are taking precautions to minimize contact.

For instance, I believe there’s a meat processing plant that has a large number cases based on a post here. However, are most businesses not seeing too much of a spike? Just curious if we have any data points that would be a microcosm of what this looks like when we “re-open.”

Anecdotal... I work for a manufacturer that has about 400 employees, 130 or so in manufacturing. We have had four cases in our workforce, all of them office workers and only one had been onsite. All have recovered.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 21, 2020, 03:37:13 PM

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/21/health/home-covid-19-test-approved/index.html


At home testing approved.  will this produce many false negatives making the numbers look better?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 21, 2020, 03:37:44 PM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 21, 2020, 02:46:06 PM

Does anyone else find themselves watching a show an TV and thinking, "Oh, they're too close together...they need to move farther apart."

Not a TV show, but I certainly think that when I'm out for a walk or bike ride and see groups of people walking or hanging around together.

I have also noticed the change in the dynamic when two people are walking toward one another. One person gradually walks off their intended path (sometimes even crossing to the other side of the street) so they can pass at a safe distance. In the past, that would have been seen as strange in many situations, even anti-social. Now, it seems responsible.

This brings to mind the thread a few weeks back where people were speculating on whether this would have a bigger or smaller effect on our daily lives than 9/11. I was surprised that several thought 9/11's impacts would be more significant. It seems quite certain now that COVID wins the debate by a country mile.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 21, 2020, 03:44:44 PM

Quote from: cheebs09 on April 21, 2020, 03:24:14 PM

Are we able to draw any conclusions from essential businesses as far as how potent things opening up will be? In Wisconsin, it seems most manufacturing is essential and have people working. At the companies my wife and I work at, they are taking precautions to minimize contact.

For instance, I believe there’s a meat processing plant that has a large number cases based on a post here. However, are most businesses not seeing too much of a spike? Just curious if we have any data points that would be a microcosm of what this looks like when we “re-open.”

Perhaps...but that depends on how rigorously the essential businesses are testing employees, maintaining physical distancing, and enforcing regular and thorough hand washing. I suspect most are being pretty careful about this. And on the back side, it depends on whether the reopened businesses maintain the same level of monitoring and safeguards.

My guess - initially, the spread at reopened businesses will be similar to the spread at essential businesses, because people will be very careful. However, people will gradually get a false sense of security that "this is behind us," and start moving away from the monitoring and safeguards...at which point the second wave will gain momentum.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 21, 2020, 03:45:00 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 21, 2020, 03:37:44 PM

I have also noticed the change in the dynamic when two people are walking toward one another. One person gradually walks off their intended path (sometimes even crossing to the other side of the street) so they can pass at a safe distance. In the past, that would have been seen as strange in many situations, even anti-social. Now, it seems responsible.

I've noticed this a lot - and done it sometimes too.  But I've also realized that many people have no grasp on what 6ft is - and go more like 12-20 ft away.  That's not necessarily bad, I just find it funny when walking on a big (10 ft-ish) path, and single file on either side should be enough distance - the other folks will jut off the path to get further away.  OK...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on April 21, 2020, 03:54:19 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 21, 2020, 03:45:00 PM

I've noticed this a lot - and done it sometimes too.  But I've also realized that many people have no grasp on what 6ft is - and go more like 12-20 ft away.  That's not necessarily bad, I just find it funny when walking on a big (10 ft-ish) path, and single file on either side should be enough distance - the other folks will jut off the path to get further away.  OK...

I have noticed people here in Chicago jogging/walking in the street, and not even close to parked cars to avoid people in the street (completely in the street).  I think very often you can have a safe six feet without being completely in the street.

2,500 pounds of sheet metal going 30mph vs. the potential of getting virus?  I think I will take my chances with the virus.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 21, 2020, 03:56:43 PM

Quote from: cheebs09 on April 21, 2020, 03:24:14 PM

Are we able to draw any conclusions from essential businesses as far as how potent things opening up will be? In Wisconsin, it seems most manufacturing is essential and have people working. At the companies my wife and I work at, they are taking precautions to minimize contact.

For instance, I believe there’s a meat processing plant that has a large number cases based on a post here. However, are most businesses not seeing too much of a spike? Just curious if we have any data points that would be a microcosm of what this looks like when we “re-open.”

I posted last week, that I heard from several customers & suppliers that they were shutting down for two weeks because someone tested positive in their place of business.  No notifications so far this week.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 21, 2020, 04:06:43 PM

Not that CO is necessarily a leader here, but here's what they're trying after their order expires after Sunday Apr 26:

https://www.cpr.org/2020/04/20/as-colorado-stay-at-home-order-nears-end-gov-polis-outlines-new-phase-of-coronavirus-marathon/

Some highlights:

Quote

Polis, speaking from the Governor's Mansion in Denver, said that the state isn't able to test enough -- and investigate confirmed positive cases -- to relax social distancing very much yet. Colorado is still having trouble getting supplies, he said.

Quote

“Retail curbside delivery, any retail that wants to do that, that starts immediately April 27,” Polis said. Other retail would be allowed to open May 1 with some restrictions.

He said that elective surgeries would be allowed starting Monday.

Large workplaces, starting May 4, will be allowed to open at 50 percent capacity, and are advised to have symptom and temperature checks for workers as they arrive.

Polis said his own goal for bars, restaurants and clubs to reopen would be mid-May, but that he’d have to wait for data on the effects of other changes to make those decisions.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 21, 2020, 04:09:43 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 21, 2020, 03:45:00 PM

I've noticed this a lot - and done it sometimes too.  But I've also realized that many people have no grasp on what 6ft is - and go more like 12-20 ft away.  That's not necessarily bad, I just find it funny when walking on a big (10 ft-ish) path, and single file on either side should be enough distance - the other folks will jut off the path to get further away.  OK...

I have seen that too...but I wonder how much is based on a misjudgment of 6 feet, and how much is concern that the virus might spread further outside in the wind and with more personal movement. An article posted a few pages back in this thread (can't find it right now) suggested that biking, running and even brisk walking might allow spread far beyond 6 feet. And then on a breezy day, all bets are off.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 21, 2020, 04:17:02 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 21, 2020, 04:09:43 PM

I have seen that too...but I wonder how much is based on a misjudgment of 6 feet, and how much is concern that the virus might spread further outside in the wind and with more personal movement. An article posted a few pages back in this thread (can't find it right now) suggested that biking, running and even brisk walking might allow spread far beyond 6 feet. And then on a breezy day, all bets are off.

I may be wrong (and don't want to spread misinformation) but I would think outdoors on a breezy day would be an extraordinarily unlikely way to contract any virus.  Which is not to say impossible, but I would think that this would be one of the safest scenarios. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on April 21, 2020, 04:17:52 PM

I've heard that Froedert is discussing starting elective procedures again.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 21, 2020, 04:19:01 PM

Hey someone woke up the CDC.....and it’s frightening!

 https://wapo.st/2Vsvu5G (https://wapo.st/2Vsvu5G)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on April 21, 2020, 04:20:07 PM

https://nypost.com/2020/04/20/can-the-coronavirus-be-spread-through-farts/


🤬

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 21, 2020, 04:20:59 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 21, 2020, 04:20:07 PM

https://nypost.com/2020/04/20/can-the-coronavirus-be-spread-through-farts/

I see you're embracing science!  And positively contributing to the conversation. 

This should be a warning for all you freeballers - wear you knickers to avoid infecting others.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 21, 2020, 04:45:05 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 21, 2020, 04:20:59 PM

I see you're embracing science!  And positively contributing to the conversation. 

This should be a warning for all you freeballers - wear you knickers to avoid infecting others.

Does this mean I need to wear an N95 over my anus?

Related.... If you guys enjoy a Google search... There's some NSFW girls in mask bikinis out there

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 21, 2020, 05:12:41 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 21, 2020, 03:45:00 PM

I've noticed this a lot - and done it sometimes too.  But I've also realized that many people have no grasp on what 6ft is - and go more like 12-20 ft away.  That's not necessarily bad, I just find it funny when walking on a big (10 ft-ish) path, and single file on either side should be enough distance - the other folks will jut off the path to get further away.  OK...

There have been a number of studies on this. The 6 ft number is meaningless. Droplets from a cough can spread up to 30 feet.

6 ft is sufficient for droplets released during normal talking/eating. But if you are running or biking, it has been shown that you need to provide 30 feet running (if you are behind them in the slip stream) or 30 m biking. If you actually just shift to the side a bit before those distances you are then somewhat safe.

Another study showed along the coasts/beaches, that have significant wind, the distances need to be substantially larger.

Not sure that people actually saw those studies and are acting accordingly, or are simply trying to be over cautious/over polite.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 21, 2020, 05:20:26 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 21, 2020, 05:12:41 PM

The 6 ft number is meaningless.

As you went on to state - it's not meaningless at all - it's just somewhat arbitrary.  Though for folks passing each other, not breathing heavily, and not stopping, it should be a relatively safe distance - even without PPE.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 21, 2020, 05:26:09 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 21, 2020, 05:20:26 PM

As you went on to state - it's not meaningless at all - it's just somewhat arbitrary.  Though for folks passing each other, not breathing heavily, and not stopping, it should be a relatively safe distance - even without PPE.

You are right. I honestly meant arbitrary. My mistake. I am hereby banned from beef and cheddars for 48 hours. Mea culpa.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 21, 2020, 05:45:45 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 21, 2020, 05:12:41 PM

There have been a number of studies on this. The 6 ft number is meaningless. Droplets from a cough can spread up to 30 feet.

6 ft is sufficient for droplets released during normal talking/eating. But if you are running or biking, it has been shown that you need to provide 30 feet running (if you are behind them in the slip stream) or 30 m biking. If you actually just shift to the side a bit before those distances you are then somewhat safe.

Another study showed along the coasts/beaches, that have significant wind, the distances need to be substantially larger.

Not sure that people actually saw those studies and are acting accordingly, or are simply trying to be over cautious/over polite.

I really would like to see those studies and what they say. I would think that if you were 25 feet behind someone running (or 25 meters behind someone on a bike) outdoors and shifted to the side a bit, you would be much better off than "somewhat safe."  As I said above, I don't doubt that it is possible to be infected by a virus in those situations, but the odds would be astronomical.  I'd bet heavily that the odds of being infected outdoors at a distance of 25 feet (running) or 25 meters (biking) are far, far lower than the ubiquitous six feet (which rocky correctly characterized as "relatively safe").  Honestly, I'd be surprised if the risk in those circumstances isn't essentially negligible.  Frankly, if it's not we're all doomed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 21, 2020, 05:53:51 PM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 21, 2020, 05:45:45 PM

I really would like to see those studies and what they say. I would think that if you were 25 feet behind someone running (or 25 meters behind someone on a bike) outdoors and shifted to the side a bit, you would be much better off than "somewhat safe."  As I said above, I don't doubt that it is possible to be infected by a virus in those situations, but the odds would be astronomical.  I'd bet heavily that the odds of being infected outdoors at a distance of 25 feet (running) or 25 meters (biking) is far, far safer than the oft-cited six feet (which rocky correctly characterized as "relatively safe").  Honestly, I'd be surprised if the risk in those circumstances isn't essentially negligible.  Frankly, if it's not we're all doomed.

I might have to increase my self ban on beef and cheddars to 96 hours. I was not being precise in my language, I also mis-remembered some of the distances. Here is the link to the paper.

http://www.urbanphysics.net/Social%20Distancing%20v20_White_Paper.pdf

and the related news article.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/coronavirus-social-distancing-walking-running-cyclists-advice-a9457431.html

and a NYtimes article (which may not have converted from metric correctly).

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/15/well/move/running-social-distancing.html

The slip stream distances are 4 m for walking, 10 m for running, 20 m for biking.

There exact language is 2 m is "very effective" indoors or standing still for "exhaled droplets." That is different than coughed droplets in my mind.

I will do my best to be more precise/accurate with language moving forward.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 21, 2020, 06:09:58 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 21, 2020, 05:53:51 PM

I might have to increase my self ban on beef and cheddars to 96 hours. I was not being precise in my language, I also mis-remembered some of the distances. Here is the link to the paper.

http://www.urbanphysics.net/Social%20Distancing%20v20_White_Paper.pdf

and the related news article.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/coronavirus-social-distancing-walking-running-cyclists-advice-a9457431.html

and a NYtimes article (which may not have converted from metric correctly).

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/15/well/move/running-social-distancing.html

The slip stream distances are 4 m for walking, 10 m for running, 20 m for biking.

There exact language is 2 m is "very effective" indoors or standing still for "exhaled droplets." That is different than coughed droplets in my mind.

I will do my best to be more precise/accurate with language moving forward.

Thank you for the links and your candor.  It's interesting research.

And this quote from the article you linked gets to my non-scientific gut reaction to this:  "Dr Bill Hanage, associate professor at Harvard’s Center for Communicable Disease Dynamics, told The Independent that the study was 'not really useful to epidemiologists' as 'the amount of transmission from this route even if it is possible will be dwarfed by that from others.'"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 21, 2020, 06:16:45 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 21, 2020, 04:19:01 PM

Hey someone woke up the CDC.....and it’s frightening!

 https://wapo.st/2Vsvu5G (https://wapo.st/2Vsvu5G)

I can't read the article because it's behind a paywall.

Does the head of CDC apologize for horribly botching their initial attempts to make test kits, and acknowledge that this wouldn't be nearly as bad if they had gotten their sh!t together sooner?

Edit: Is WaPo the only major newspaper that still has its COVID stories behind a paywall? Both NYT and WSJ have been allowing access for quite a while.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 21, 2020, 07:06:03 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 21, 2020, 06:16:45 PM

I can't read the article because it's behind a paywall.

Does the head of CDC apologize for horribly botching their initial attempts to make test kits, and acknowledge that this wouldn't be nearly as bad if they had gotten their sh!t together sooner?

Edit: Is WaPo the only major newspaper that still has its COVID stories behind a paywall? Both NYT and WSJ have been allowing access for quite a while.

More bucks for Bezos, aina.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 21, 2020, 07:58:35 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 21, 2020, 06:16:45 PM

I can't read the article because it's behind a paywall.

Does the head of CDC apologize for horribly botching their initial attempts to make test kits, and acknowledge that this wouldn't be nearly as bad if they had gotten their sh!t together sooner?

Edit: Is WaPo the only major newspaper that still has its COVID stories behind a paywall? Both NYT and WSJ have been allowing access for quite a while.

I subscribe and thought the corona stuff was available.  Here is an alternate link

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/21/coronavirus-secondwave-cdcdirector/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/21/coronavirus-secondwave-cdcdirector/)

Essence of article- Robert Redfield CDC:
- 2nd wave definitely worse because it will be coupled with flu season
- CDC having 500 employees help at the state level - hiring 650 more
- Need many more so Evaluating using census workers, peace corps, americorps to do contact tracing
- Former CDC head tom frieden thinks we need 300k contact tracers
- Get your flu shot

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 21, 2020, 09:25:12 PM

Just watched outbreak with my kids and I know when i first saw it when it first came out I thought now way in hell that could ever happen.  I guess I was wrong

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 21, 2020, 09:26:33 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 20, 2020, 09:48:38 PM

Trump says he will issue an executive order suspending immigration.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/us/coronavirus-live-news.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

He is so confident that we have this solved that he calls to “liberate” states ASAP, but so concerned about the spread that he suspends immigration. Yeah - vilifying the “others” is gonna solve this....

Polls overwhelmingly supporting temporary immigration ban (USA Today 79% approve, 11% disapprove). Vilifying the “others” evidently popular with Republicans, Democrats and Independents.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 21, 2020, 09:28:20 PM

Good for you, finding something to celebrate.   Happy for you.


Does this include the essential workers at the bottom of the food supply chain?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 21, 2020, 09:46:05 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 21, 2020, 09:26:33 PM

Polls overwhelmingly supporting temporary immigration ban (USA Today 79% approve, 11% disapprove). Vilifying the “others” evidently popular with Republicans, Democrats and Independents.

I don’t disagree but what would you say the most impactful thing the govt could enact given the current environment?

IMO there are things higher in the list, but curious if I am undervaluing this decision. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 21, 2020, 09:50:12 PM

Quote from: tower912 on April 21, 2020, 09:28:20 PM

Good for you, finding something to celebrate.   Happy for you.


Does this include the essential workers at the bottom of the food supply chain?

Trump explicitly said the immigration ban will not affect migrant workers for agriculture. He didn't explicitly comment on it, but it likely also won't affect migrant workers for hotel chains.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 21, 2020, 09:53:05 PM

Quote from: tower912 on April 21, 2020, 09:28:20 PM

Good for you, finding something to celebrate.   Happy for you.


Does this include the essential workers at the bottom of the food supply chain?

I’m not celebrating. Other than examples of individual heroism I see nothing to celebrate.

Including knee jerk ad hominem attacks. Good to see there’s overwhelming agreement.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 21, 2020, 09:55:22 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 21, 2020, 09:26:33 PM

Polls overwhelmingly supporting temporary immigration ban (USA Today 79% approve, 11% disapprove). Vilifying the “others” evidently popular with Republicans, Democrats and Independents.

It’s amazing what fear can do to rationality.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 21, 2020, 10:02:05 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 21, 2020, 09:46:05 PM

I don’t disagree but what would you say the most impactful thing the govt could enact given the current environment?

IMO there are things higher in the list, but curious if I am undervaluing this decision.

I think you’re right. This probably makes us a little safer and gives our workers first shot when we reopen, but it’s by no means a game changer. But it’s not a racist policy meant to vilify “others”, either.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 21, 2020, 10:05:10 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 21, 2020, 10:02:05 PM

I think you’re right. This probably makes us a little safer and gives our workers first shot when we reopen, but it’s by no means a game changer. But it’s not a racist policy meant to vilify “others”, either.

Yes but it plays into forces both for and against “racist others”.   So like grabbing the third rail.

So why not testing tracing and science? Or other Policies that make a bigger difference?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 21, 2020, 10:05:55 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 21, 2020, 09:55:22 PM

It’s amazing what fear can do to rationality.

Hatred, too.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 21, 2020, 10:08:00 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 21, 2020, 10:05:55 PM

Hatred, too.

Yes, I will agree with you on that - fear stokes hatred as well.

Beginning to look like we agree on a few things after all.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 21, 2020, 10:45:05 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 21, 2020, 09:26:33 PM

Polls overwhelmingly supporting temporary immigration ban (USA Today 79% approve, 11% disapprove). Vilifying the “others” evidently popular with Republicans, Democrats and Independents.

What is even the purpose of the ban? You said it makes us a little safer. How, exactly?

I could understand if other countries want to ban all Americans. We are the most infected country in the world. We are the danger.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 21, 2020, 11:36:57 PM

"I don't take responsibility at all".

On Sunday in another attempt to blame Obama, Trump said, “We took, ah, they had tests that were no good, they had, all the stuff was no good. It came from somewhere, so whoever came up with it.”

Just curious how Obama's team could have developed a test for a virus that was not to occur until 3 years after he left office.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 21, 2020, 11:42:22 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 21, 2020, 11:36:57 PM

"I don't take responsibility at all".

On Sunday in another attempt to blame Obama, Trump said, “We took, ah, they had tests that were no good, they had, all the stuff was no good. It came from somewhere, so whoever came up with it.”

Just curious how Obama's team could have developed a test for a virus that was not to occur until 3 years after he left office.

Maybe Trump thought flu tests form the Obama regime would work, because this was just another flu?

Maybe that was part of the problem, he was using flu tests, and they didn't work.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 22, 2020, 05:49:26 AM

Finding first deaths earlier than previously thought.  Also in Santa Clara.  The area that had the anti-body study done.

 https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/04/22/death-coronavirus-first-california/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/04/22/death-coronavirus-first-california/)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 22, 2020, 06:04:36 AM

Disinformation by foreign actors.

 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/22/us/politics/coronavirus-china-disinformation.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/22/us/politics/coronavirus-china-disinformation.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 22, 2020, 06:35:50 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 21, 2020, 10:05:55 PM

Hatred, too.

Completely agree that fear and hatred lead to irrational decisions.    Have been saying versions of that for years.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 22, 2020, 07:57:06 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 22, 2020, 05:49:26 AM

Finding first deaths earlier than previously thought.  Also in Santa Clara.  The area that had the anti-body study done.

 https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/04/22/death-coronavirus-first-california/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/04/22/death-coronavirus-first-california/)

This is really interesting.  If you want to look at this positively, it's almost if Santa Clara unwittingly served as a petri dish for developing herd immunity - and it may have by and large worked.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 22, 2020, 08:16:56 AM

Unusual blood clotting issues? If this is the case, wouldn't it have presented and been noticed by doctors before this? We had people dying from this since at least January globally, doesn't it seem that if there were an unusually high incidence we would have heard of it earlier?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/doctors-try-to-untangle-why-theyre-seeing-unprecedented-blood-clotting-among-covid-19-patients/ar-BB130owV?ocid=spartandhp

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on April 22, 2020, 08:44:50 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 21, 2020, 06:16:45 PM

I can't read the article because it's behind a paywall.

Does the head of CDC apologize for horribly botching their initial attempts to make test kits, and acknowledge that this wouldn't be nearly as bad if they had gotten their sh!t together sooner?

Edit: Is WaPo the only major newspaper that still has its COVID stories behind a paywall? Both NYT and WSJ have been allowing access for quite a while.

If you have Amazon Prime you can subscribe to WaPo online for like $4 a month. It is worth it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 22, 2020, 08:57:06 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 22, 2020, 08:16:56 AM

Unusual blood clotting issues? If this is the case, wouldn't it have presented and been noticed by doctors before this? We had people dying from this since at least January globally, doesn't it seem that if there were an unusually high incidence we would have heard of it earlier?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/doctors-try-to-untangle-why-theyre-seeing-unprecedented-blood-clotting-among-covid-19-patients/ar-BB130owV?ocid=spartandhp

From my reading of the article, it’s still just a hunch (like the “don’t use ibuprofen” thing earlier) and has yet to be studied. Also, some think it happens (if at all) in only a subset (yet to be defined) of COVID patients. A couple of quotes from the article that led me to this:

"Even before Covid, we're on high alert for suspicion of clots in the ICU because they're at high risk," Gong said.

Even so, doctors have a hunch that Covid patients might be clotting even more than other ICU patients.

And this:

"My gut tells me there are probably a subset of Covid patients who have really abnormal clotting behavior, that this is happening more frequently than we would expect it to," said Hibbert, an instructor at Harvard Medical School.

She quickly added, though, that doctors' gut feelings are "notoriously misleading" and that studies need to be done to get to the bottom of exactly how common clotting is among coronavirus patients.

Anyhow, good to know docs are looking into this. I suspect that, even though we haven’t heard about it, ICU docs treating COVID patients are well aware of this hunch.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 22, 2020, 08:57:25 AM

This is a pretty interesting read at how contagious this is and hopefully that it is much more widespread than we think.

 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/22/us/coronavirus-sequencing.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/22/us/coronavirus-sequencing.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 22, 2020, 08:58:36 AM

Quote from: Coleman on April 22, 2020, 08:44:50 AM

If you have Amazon Prime you can subscribe to WaPo online for like $4 a month. It is worth it.

Good to know, because that is a great deal. Unfortunately, we gave up our Prime subscription a while ago because we just weren’t using it enough. If we go back, I will definitely take advantage of that deal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 22, 2020, 09:00:11 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 22, 2020, 08:57:25 AM

This is a pretty interesting read at how contagious this is and hopefully that it is much more widespread than we think.

 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/22/us/coronavirus-sequencing.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/22/us/coronavirus-sequencing.html)

That would be fantastic news because it could mean we are much closer to herd immunity than we thought. Fingers crossed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 22, 2020, 09:27:01 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 22, 2020, 08:57:06 AM

From my reading of the article, it’s still just a hunch (like the “don’t use ibuprofen” thing earlier) and has yet to be studied. Also, some think it happens (if at all) in only a subset (yet to be defined) of COVID patients. A couple of quotes from the article that led me to this:

"Even before Covid, we're on high alert for suspicion of clots in the ICU because they're at high risk," Gong said.

Even so, doctors have a hunch that Covid patients might be clotting even more than other ICU patients.

And this:

"My gut tells me there are probably a subset of Covid patients who have really abnormal clotting behavior, that this is happening more frequently than we would expect it to," said Hibbert, an instructor at Harvard Medical School.

She quickly added, though, that doctors' gut feelings are "notoriously misleading" and that studies need to be done to get to the bottom of exactly how common clotting is among coronavirus patients.

Anyhow, good to know docs are looking into this. I suspect that, even though we haven’t heard about it, ICU docs treating COVID patients are well aware of this hunch.

Agree with all this, that is why I was skeptical in reading it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 22, 2020, 09:28:53 AM

So yeah, about herd immunity...the populace doesn't develop herd immunity to more common coronaviruses, what is leading us to believe that we will for COVID-19?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 22, 2020, 09:48:37 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 22, 2020, 09:28:53 AM

So yeah, about herd immunity...the populace doesn't develop herd immunity to more common coronaviruses, what is leading us to believe that we will for COVID-19?

Is this accurate? Studies have shown at least short-term immunity to SARS and MERS once a person has been through an infection. One would hope something similar would at least provide a little more breathing room to develop and effective vaccine.

I don't think we can or should assume anything at this point, either way. I've always believed the key while awaiting a vaccine wouldn't be herd immunity, but development of an effective therapeutic that could lessen/minimize the symptoms. People will still get sick, and some still will die, but that would make everything far more manageable and allow for a return to something closer to normal life.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 22, 2020, 09:51:48 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 22, 2020, 09:28:53 AM

So yeah, about herd immunity...the populace doesn't develop herd immunity to more common coronaviruses, what is leading us to believe that we will for COVID-19?

I suspect it’s because most coronaviruses mutate before we can get the critical mass for herd immunity. This virus (at least the antigenic part) seems not to do that. Again - speculation based on what I’ve heard so far....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 22, 2020, 10:05:48 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 22, 2020, 09:51:48 AM

I suspect it’s because most coronaviruses mutate before we can get the critical mass for herd immunity. This virus (at least the antigenic part) seems not to do that. Again - speculation based on what I’ve heard so far....

The other coronaviruses do not mutate any more rapidly that SARS-CoV2. It is simply a matter of any immunity not lasting a particularly long time, and the virus becoming endemic in a population.

It appears we are going to have this become endemic.

What we can hope for, and I think will be the case, is that subsequent rounds of infection have lower mortality due to a slightly elevated immune response. That means mortality can be significantly lowered, but infection rates remaining high. The good news is that this doesn't affect children as severely, so we do not have to worry about long-term high mortality in kids (previously uninfected).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on April 22, 2020, 10:12:08 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 22, 2020, 09:28:53 AM

So yeah, about herd immunity...the populace doesn't develop herd immunity to more common coronaviruses, what is leading us to believe that we will for COVID-19?

I keep coming back to this too. I haven't been able to find much info on it, but I think part of the answer is that herd immunity just means that most people have the antibodies, but that can lead to a range of outcomes w/r/t any particular virus.  In some cases it means an entire population is effectively innoculated against contracting the virus, but in other cases it can lead to less severe cases of the illness when it is contracted. So I think even if covid-19 is here to stay because herd immunity won't knock it out completely, the hope is that we collectively build up enough antibodies that it stops killing people.  Sort of how the common cold could decimate a population that has never been exposed to that coronavirus, whereas for us it generally just makes life miserable for awhile.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 22, 2020, 10:35:20 AM

Quote from: forgetful on April 22, 2020, 10:05:48 AM

The other coronaviruses do not mutate any more rapidly that SARS-CoV2. It is simply a matter of any immunity not lasting a particularly long time, and the virus becoming endemic in a population.

It appears we are going to have this become endemic.

What we can hope for, and I think will be the case, is that subsequent rounds of infection have lower mortality due to a slightly elevated immune response. That means mortality can be significantly lowered, but infection rates remaining high. The good news is that this doesn't affect children as severely, so we do not have to worry about long-term high mortality in kids (previously uninfected).

Helpful information. I thought I read something about a slower mutation rate, but I can’t find it right now. I trust your info.

Regarding future rounds of infection, I think you are right that are that the elevated immune response will help. Also, we will hopefully have some effective treatments by then, like we now do with HIV/AIDS.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 22, 2020, 10:39:53 AM

Big Harvard report released today on how to get back to normal this summer:

Key findings ... we need way more testing (5 million per day by June; 20 million per day by midsummer), contact tracing and supported isolation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhRQxk9QA-o&t=25s

https://ethics.harvard.edu/files/center-for-ethics/files/roadmaptopandemicresilience_updated_4.20.20_0.pdf

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 22, 2020, 10:42:50 AM

What?!?!?    Widespread testing?!?!?    Harrumph.     


Anyway, I am fascinated by the research about older vaccines, BGR and the oral Polio to be specific,  creating additional immunity in the body to help withstand COVID.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 22, 2020, 11:05:25 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 22, 2020, 10:35:20 AM

Helpful information. I thought I read something about a slower mutation rate, but I can’t find it right now. I trust your info.

Regarding future rounds of infection, I think you are right that are that the elevated immune response will help. Also, we will hopefully have some effective treatments by then, like we now do with HIV/AIDS.

It's possible you did indeed read that. There is a lot of info out there, and the wording can get quite tricky, where it isn't really clear what they mean. This is a byproduct of the internet era, easy to create content, so more of it, but that makes it harder to find content that is well done/accurate.

A lot of articles will state it has a low-mutation rate. But that is relative to all other viruses, not just coronaviruses. Some early reports also thought it mutated less than SARS, but they had so little data, and samples, that such conclusions were not warranted.

The best data right now suggests on average 2 mutations per month. That is the same as the flu, but coronaviruses have a larger genome, so the mutation rate is actually considerably lower than the flu. 2 mutations per month is fairly normal in comparison to RNA viruses.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 22, 2020, 12:18:28 PM

I had a long call with a former colleague of mine yesterday.  He lives in an Atlanta suburb.  They are soft-launching a re-opening of the state this week.  Asked if he was nervous, he said slightly but his business is in tough shape and he is more worried about his employees and the economic future. 

In my opinion this is why the protests are happening.  It is easy for Sam Dekker or the nation's wealthy to vent on Twitter to stay home, and they may be right for certain segments of society.  Put yourself in the shoes of someone who has their livelihood imploding or believe their individual rights are trampled on and disagreements happen.  I can rationally see the arguments of both sides.

The more I read about Sweden I wonder if they had it right?  But if we took that approach, would the political willpower to withstand the deaths and the incredible criticism that goes with it be tolerable?  Almost certainly no.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 22, 2020, 12:28:23 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 22, 2020, 12:18:28 PM

The more I read about Sweden I wonder if they had it right? 

OMG.  No.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 22, 2020, 12:30:14 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 22, 2020, 12:18:28 PM

I had a long call with a former colleague of mine yesterday.  He lives in an Atlanta suburb.  They are soft-launching a re-opening of the state this week.  Asked if he was nervous, he said slightly but his business is in tough shape and he is more worried about his employees and the economic future. 

In my opinion this is why the protests are happening.  It is easy for Sam Dekker or the nation's wealthy to vent on Twitter to stay home, and they may be right for certain segments of society.  Put yourself in the shoes of someone who has their livelihood imploding or believe their individual rights are trampled on and disagreements happen.  I can rationally see the arguments of both sides.

The more I read about Sweden I wonder if they had it right?  But if we took that approach, would the political willpower to withstand the deaths and the incredible criticism that goes with it be tolerable?  Almost certainly no.

As I mentioned from the article you posted:

“But Sweden’s 1,937 deaths is far higher in number and proportionally to Denmark’s 370 and Finland’s 141.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 22, 2020, 12:35:10 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 22, 2020, 12:18:28 PM

I had a long call with a former colleague of mine yesterday.  He lives in an Atlanta suburb.  They are soft-launching a re-opening of the state this week.  Asked if he was nervous, he said slightly but his business is in tough shape and he is more worried about his employees and the economic future. 

In my opinion this is why the protests are happening.  It is easy for Sam Dekker or the nation's wealthy to vent on Twitter to stay home, and they may be right for certain segments of society.  Put yourself in the shoes of someone who has their livelihood imploding or believe their individual rights are trampled on and disagreements happen.  I can rationally see the arguments of both sides.

The more I read about Sweden I wonder if they had it right?  But if we took that approach, would the political willpower to withstand the deaths and the incredible criticism that goes with it be tolerable?  Almost certainly no.

Dude. We know why the protests are happening.  And it has nothing to do with the virus or economy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 22, 2020, 12:46:23 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 22, 2020, 12:35:10 PM

Dude. We know why the protests are happening.  And it has nothing to do with the virus or economy.

It can be both.  I'm sure quite a few of those people protesting are honest Americans that don't understand how deadly this is and want life to go back to normal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 22, 2020, 12:53:05 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 22, 2020, 12:18:28 PM

I had a long call with a former colleague of mine yesterday.  He lives in an Atlanta suburb.  They are soft-launching a re-opening of the state this week.  Asked if he was nervous, he said slightly but his business is in tough shape and he is more worried about his employees and the economic future. 

In my opinion this is why the protests are happening.  It is easy for Sam Dekker or the nation's wealthy to vent on Twitter to stay home, and they may be right for certain segments of society.  Put yourself in the shoes of someone who has their livelihood imploding or believe their individual rights are trampled on and disagreements happen.  I can rationally see the arguments of both sides.

The more I read about Sweden I wonder if they had it right?  But if we took that approach, would the political willpower to withstand the deaths and the incredible criticism that goes with it be tolerable?  Almost certainly no.

Just come out and embrace the Texas Lt. Governor already.  "There are more important things than living".   You know you want to.   And prove it by going out and volunteering in the hard hit areas.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 22, 2020, 12:54:32 PM

Chris Cuomo is coming off as kind of a jagoff, no? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 22, 2020, 12:55:05 PM

No.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 22, 2020, 01:01:06 PM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 22, 2020, 12:54:32 PM

Chris Cuomo is coming off as kind of a jagoff, no?

Who cares?  There is a large list of those people.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 22, 2020, 01:01:29 PM

Quote from: tower912 on April 22, 2020, 12:55:05 PM

No.

I guess we'll disagree.  I would think being out and about with an active case of COVID-19 would be kind of a bad look.  And then to document his "emergence" from his basement when he'd already mentioned on his radio show that he had been out and about.  I think that makes him come off as a jagoff.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 22, 2020, 01:02:37 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 22, 2020, 01:01:06 PM

Who cares?  There is a large list of those people.

I think there is plenty that we're all posting on here that could elicit a "who cares" retort.  I was just sharing an opinion.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 22, 2020, 01:10:09 PM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 22, 2020, 01:02:37 PM

I think there is plenty that we're all posting on here that could elicit a "who cares" retort.  I was just sharing an opinion.

So would you agree that our President has come off as kind of a jagoff as well?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 22, 2020, 01:15:02 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 22, 2020, 01:10:09 PM

So would you agree that our President has come off as kind of a jagoff as well?

Absolutely.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 22, 2020, 01:19:53 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 22, 2020, 12:46:23 PM

It can be both.  I'm sure quite a few of those people protesting are honest Americans that don't understand how deadly this is and want life to go back to normal.

Any suggestions on how they don’t understand? It is 24/7 coverage.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 22, 2020, 01:23:50 PM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 22, 2020, 12:54:32 PM

Chris Cuomo is coming off as kind of a jagoff, no?

Somewhat agree. But I think he has always been like that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 22, 2020, 01:25:38 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 22, 2020, 01:19:53 PM

Any suggestions on how they don’t understand? It is 24/7 coverage.

Depends whose 24/7 coverage they're watching or reading.
Heck, we had someone here today linking a news story that says COVID-19 is just the flu.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HouWarrior on April 22, 2020, 01:28:12 PM

Quote from: tower912 on April 22, 2020, 12:53:05 PM

Just come out and embrace the Texas Lt. Governor already.  "There are more important things than living".   You know you want to.   And prove it by going out and volunteering in the hard hit areas.

 In Houston we recall our Lt Gov as former Channel 11 sportscaster Dan Patrick who changed his name from Dannie Scott Goeb. My brother worked at KHOU too and I first met Dan during the Luv Ya Blue Oiler days...he wore blue face on air!

He then tried his hand at sports bars which bankrupted and he was just about out of gas/money when an opportunity struck ....to  buy a nearly defunct christian AM radio station for pennies. ....wow....Dan suddenly found god...and a bunch of guys to host local conservative call in shows.

Dan parlayed christian/conservative radio celebrity to Tx State Senate and now Lt Gov.

To me he will always be that TV sports guy in blue face

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 22, 2020, 01:31:12 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 22, 2020, 01:23:50 PM

Somewhat agree. But I think he has always been like that.

I'll take your word for it.  I watch very little news on TV and wasn't even particularly aware of Cuomo until he got sick.  I wouldn't swear that I had never heard of him -- I probably did in passing at one time or another -- but I have no recollection.

If it helps my bona fides with Hards, I'll say for the record that Hannity is a total jagoff.  No specific examples needed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on April 22, 2020, 01:32:05 PM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 22, 2020, 01:01:29 PM

I guess we'll disagree.  I would think being out and about with an active case of COVID-19 would be kind of a bad look.  And then to document his "emergence" from his basement when he'd already mentioned on his radio show that he had been out and about.  I think that makes him come off as a jagoff.

I don't think he "comes off" as a jagoff.  I think he IS a jagoff.  Well documented.  Though he is not in the  minority in that regard when it comes to big personalities in media  (left or right leaning).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 22, 2020, 01:32:14 PM

Columnist for Hearst Newspapers Connecticut visited the Hartford "protest" on Monday.  He tried to speak with a range of them.
This is Connecticut, so the gun nuts actually left their guns at home.  Check out the pictures including, of course, a Joe Exotic mention.
A quick read.

---

Dan Haar: The full spectrum of coronavirus shutdown protesters
By Dan Haar Updated 1:36 am EDT, Tuesday, April 21, 2020

https://www.middletownpress.com/news/article/Dan-Haar-The-full-spectrum-of-coronavirus-15214250.php

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 22, 2020, 01:32:45 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 22, 2020, 01:19:53 PM

Any suggestions on how they don’t understand? It is 24/7 coverage.

There are at least a couple of news networks you could watch where you would have no idea how serious the pandemic really is. Then they get tweets from POTUS telling them to "liberate" various states. I can see how people wouldn't understand.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 22, 2020, 01:39:46 PM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 22, 2020, 01:31:12 PM

I'll take your word for it.  I watch very little news on TV and wasn't even particularly aware of Cuomo until he got sick.  I wouldn't swear that I had never heard of him -- I probably did in passing at one time or another -- but I have no recollection.

If it helps my bona fides with Hards, I'll say for the record that Hannity is a total jagoff.  No specific examples needed.

Chris Cuomo has always been a douche.  Most rich and famous people are.  No need for your bona fides.  :P

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 22, 2020, 01:47:26 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 22, 2020, 01:19:53 PM

Any suggestions on how they don’t understand? It is 24/7 coverage.

Simple.  There are a lot of stupid people that exist in the world.  Some don't watch the news.  Some have been told that all the media does is lie, so they don't trust them.  Some get their information from facebook feeds.  Some are conspiracy theorists.  Some are sick of being afraid of something they can't comprehend, nor could they hope to comprehend.  They're the same folks that don't trust science because they can't understand it.  They are D-U-M-B, and the internet has made them dumber.  But they've become more confident that they aren't dumb because now they're not just the crazy lady down the street... and now they have a way of organizing into a group of crazies.

There will always be stupid people.  There is no solution.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 22, 2020, 02:16:33 PM

Maybe this was already posted - but the US had quite the spike of new cases yesterday - more than 39k new.  The start of the Easter "bump"?

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2020-coronavirus-cases-world-map/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 22, 2020, 02:43:31 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 22, 2020, 02:16:33 PM

Maybe this was already posted - but the US had quite the spike of new cases yesterday - more than 39k new.  The start of the Easter "bump"?

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2020-coronavirus-cases-world-map/

maybe i am really bad a reading graphs but i see April 21 = 26,221 for new cases in the us from the info in that link

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 22, 2020, 02:55:28 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 22, 2020, 02:16:33 PM

Maybe this was already posted - but the US had quite the spike of new cases yesterday - more than 39k new.  The start of the Easter "bump"?

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2020-coronavirus-cases-world-map/

Could be.  I know a lot of people got together with family.

But it's really hard to tell because testing is so inconsistent right now.  Ohio had a spike recently, but it now appears that much of it was that they tested thousands inmates in the prisons (and found 73% infected in one).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 22, 2020, 03:09:05 PM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 22, 2020, 02:55:28 PM

Could be.  I know a lot of people got together with family.

But it's really hard to tell because testing is so inconsistent right now.  Ohio had a spike recently, but it now appears that much of it was that they tested thousands inmates in the prisons (and found 73% infected in one).

That's my feeling. The availability of tests per capita still varies widely from state to state, and is gradually increasing as time goes by...so I struggle to see how any changes in infection rates can reliably be attributed to any particular factor.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 22, 2020, 03:10:40 PM

Quote from: StillAWarrior hulink=topic=59849.msg1236567#msg1236567 date=1587585328

Could be.  I know a lot of people got together with family.

But it's really hard to tell because testing is so inconsistent right now.  Ohio had a spike recently, but it now appears that much of it was that they tested thousands inmates in the prisons (and found 73% infected in one).

Dane county just tested the jail, guards and immates, had a small spike too.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 22, 2020, 03:20:31 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on April 22, 2020, 03:10:40 PM

Dane county just tested the jail, guards and immates, had a small spike too.

It unnerved me when I saw Ohio's spike.  We had seemed to be heading in the right direction (i.e., under 400 new cases per day), and suddenly things spiked...511...623...693...1115...1380...1317...  With more than 3300 cases in prisons, I think it's safe to say that a fairly healthy portion of those new cases were there.  Also, they started much more aggressive testing in nursing homes.

We're back down below 400 again.  I tend to focus more on deaths/hospitalizations/ICU admissions because they seem less affected by an increase in testing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 22, 2020, 03:59:47 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on April 22, 2020, 02:43:31 PM

maybe i am really bad a reading graphs but i see April 21 = 26,221 for new cases in the us from the info in that link

Well, that's weird, I see where you got that - you clicked on "Cases in the US" which takes you to a new page with different numbers, but if you scroll down the original page, and go to "Global Cases Added Per Day" you'll see the 39,460 - which corresponds with the JHU data:

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2020-coronavirus-cases-world-map/
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on April 22, 2020, 04:29:15 PM

Trends in the number of positive cases are almost completely meaningless. They are a factor of the number of tests conducted, and we are just now, 6 weeks into this mess, starting to be able to test everyone with symptoms.

The most meaningful metric, in terms of trends and where we are on the curve, is hospitalizations/ICU admissions, as well as deaths (although this is a trailing metric).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muwarrior69 on April 22, 2020, 04:43:11 PM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on April 22, 2020, 01:32:05 PM

I don't think he "comes off" as a jagoff.  I think he IS a jagoff.  Well documented.  Though he is not in the  minority in that regard when it comes to big personalities in media  (left or right leaning).

I guess some of us don't have to self quarantine even when we have the virus. Some average New York Schlupp would have probably been fined or even charged with spreading the virus knowingly.

https://pjmedia.com/trending/double-standard-it-seems-coronavirus-quarantines-dont-apply-to-george-stephanopoulos/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 22, 2020, 04:51:23 PM

Quote from: muwarrior69 on April 22, 2020, 04:43:11 PM

I guess some of us don't have to self quarantine even when we have the virus. So me average New York Schlupp would have probably been fined or even charged with spreading the virus knowingly.

https://pjmedia.com/trending/double-standard-it-seems-coronavirus-quarantines-dont-apply-to-george-stephanopoulos/

Battle stations, battle stations.   Tsmith and jockitch, please report to your weapons.

In regards to Cuomo, he was spotted looking at properties in the Hamptons on easter sunday, so his whole "emergence" is just another CNN stunt.

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/492907-hamptons-bicyclist-files-police-report-after-verbal-confrontation-with-cnns (https://thehill.com/homenews/media/492907-hamptons-bicyclist-files-police-report-after-verbal-confrontation-with-cnns)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 22, 2020, 05:58:54 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on April 22, 2020, 04:51:23 PM

Battle stations, battle stations.   Tsmith and jockitch, please report to your weapons.

In regards to Cuomo, he was spotted looking at properties in the Hamptons on easter sunday, so his whole "emergence" is just another CNN stunt.

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/492907-hamptons-bicyclist-files-police-report-after-verbal-confrontation-with-cnns (https://thehill.com/homenews/media/492907-hamptons-bicyclist-files-police-report-after-verbal-confrontation-with-cnns)

It is stupid and selfish for *anyone* to break quarantine like that.

Now don't you feel stupid(er)?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on April 22, 2020, 06:01:19 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 22, 2020, 05:58:54 PM

It is stupid and selfish for *anyone* to break quarantine like that.

Now don't you feel stupid(er)?

I think the correct response is, “yeah but YOUR PEOPLE broke social distancing rules to protest the quarantine, endangering many more people!”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 22, 2020, 06:04:40 PM

Quote from: wadesworld on April 22, 2020, 06:01:19 PM

I think the correct response is, “yeah but YOUR PEOPLE broke social distancing rules to protest the quarantine, endangering many more people!”

Nah, I'm not going to do whataboutism. I'm also not the hypocrite Ziggy showed himself to be.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 22, 2020, 06:22:00 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 22, 2020, 03:59:47 PM

Well, that's weird, I see where you got that - you clicked on "Cases in the US" which takes you to a new page with different numbers, but if you scroll down the original page, and go to "Global Cases Added Per Day" you'll see the 39,460 - which corresponds with the JHU data:

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2020-coronavirus-cases-world-map/
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

I see your numbers now. That is weird and if i go to worldmeters (25,985) i get a totally different number.  Depends when the numbers were taken

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on April 22, 2020, 06:26:01 PM

Las Vegas Mayor really campaigning for WORST PERSON IN THE WORLD today.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 22, 2020, 06:26:41 PM

The State of Minnesota is partnering with Mayo Clinic and U of Minnesota to develop largest COVID-19 testing capacity in the US. Effective immediately, every person in Minnesota who has COVID-19 symptoms - even mild ones - can get tested.

https://www.medcitybeat.com/news-blog/2020/mayo-u-of-m-increased-testing

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 22, 2020, 06:42:14 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on April 22, 2020, 06:22:00 PM

Depends when the numbers were taken

Agreed.  I have mostly been following the JHU tool - just because I think they're focused on collecting the data in a consistent manner - not modeling, or predicting - just data. But then I linked the Bloomberg page because it was easier to see.  Anyhow - whether it's meaningful or not - something to keep an eye on.  According to JHU, the US has been adding 28k-33k cases per day for a couple weeks.  So the jump up caught my eye.

Also agree with others - it could be a factor of more testing - though the fact that it was 9-10 days from Easter weekend makes me wonder...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 22, 2020, 06:49:45 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 22, 2020, 06:42:14 PM

Agreed.  I have mostly been following the JHU tool - just because I think they're focused on collecting the data in a consistent manner - not modeling, or predicting - just data. But then I linked the Bloomberg page because it was easier to see.  Anyhow - whether it's meaningful or not - something to keep an eye on.  According to JHU, the US has been adding 28k-33k cases per day for a couple weeks.  So the jump up caught my eye.

Also agree with others - it could be a factor of more testing - though the fact that it was 9-10 days from Easter weekend makes me wonder...

We will never know for sure. Even when we are past this, the numbers infected and dead from COVID-19 will just be educated guesses.

That made sense for the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic, but it’s awfully disappointing in 2020.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 22, 2020, 07:21:54 PM

Go back to sleep CDC

 https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/494224-cdc-director-tries-to-walk-back-remarks-on-coronavirus (https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/494224-cdc-director-tries-to-walk-back-remarks-on-coronavirus)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 22, 2020, 07:28:37 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 22, 2020, 07:21:54 PM

Go back to sleep CDC

 https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/494224-cdc-director-tries-to-walk-back-remarks-on-coronavirus (https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/494224-cdc-director-tries-to-walk-back-remarks-on-coronavirus)

The headline is misleading, as Redfield didn’t walk back anything. Trump wanted him to walk his comments back and say he was misquoted, but Redfield simply reiterated what he said and specifically verified that he had been quoted accurately.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 22, 2020, 08:20:56 PM

Interesting read on the Santa Clara case discovered today.  Strong Wuhan link. 

You really have to wonder how widespread this is/was in China.

 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/22/us/santa-clara-county-coronavirus-death.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/22/us/santa-clara-county-coronavirus-death.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 22, 2020, 08:45:52 PM

"It won't be coming back in the fall, though, that it was. It will becoming back in smaller doses that we can contain. The doctor was saying, and I spoke to him at great length, he was saying should it come back together, now you have the flu and the embers of corona. And in my opinion, from everything we've seen, everything we've witnessed. What we've we will not go through. Just gone through, we will not go through - embers of corona, and you could have some a big flu- you could have, they could combine, if system. and if they come together -- it's not great. But we will not go through what we went through for the last two months."


I know this is harder to read & de-cipher than 4never's babbling - but a great look at how clueless the guy is.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 22, 2020, 08:50:57 PM

The doctor leading the Trump administration’s vaccine agency said he was removed from his post at the Department of Health and Human Services and moved into a smaller role at another agency in retaliation for pushing for “scientifically-vetted solutions” over drugs that have not been proven to treat the coronavirus.

Dr. Rick Bright said in a statement to The New York Times on Wednesday that he had clashed with HHS “political leadership” over his resistance to funding “potentially dangerous drugs promoted by those with political connections.”

That disagreement led to Bright’s removal as the director of the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority in HHS, which leads the federal effort to develop vaccines and other drugs. The director of that agency is not appointed by Congress.

Bright told the Times that he specifically limited the “broad use of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, promoted by the administration as a panacea, but which clearly lack scientific merit.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 22, 2020, 10:42:04 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 22, 2020, 08:58:07 PM

Actually, it isn’t. If you develop symptoms, contact your doc and you will get tested.

Now we only need the other 49 to follow suit.

T. Mbakwe

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 22, 2020, 11:03:13 PM

Scoop mods are awesome. May they remain symptom-free!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 23, 2020, 07:52:43 AM

China flare up.  I wonder if related to spread within China or with the proximity of NK coming from there. 

 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/23/world/asia/china-coronavirus-new-infections.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/23/world/asia/china-coronavirus-new-infections.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 23, 2020, 08:47:32 AM

Another example of Trump's inconsistent communication and how it is causing more harm than good.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/coronavirus-government-response-updates-pelosi-insist-truth-trump/story?id=70284957&cid=clicksource_4380645_2_heads_hero_live_hero_related

Tweet out things like "LIBERATE MINNESOTA," riling up protestors, etc.  Then telling the governor of Georgia to not exactly liberate.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on April 23, 2020, 08:53:49 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 23, 2020, 08:47:32 AM

Another example of Trump's inconsistent communication and how it is causing more harm than good.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/coronavirus-government-response-updates-pelosi-insist-truth-trump/story?id=70284957&cid=clicksource_4380645_2_heads_hero_live_hero_related

Tweet out things like "LIBERATE MINNESOTA," riling up protestors, etc.  Then telling the governor of Georgia to not exactly liberate.

I actually think this is all intentional: throw red meat to the base who still thinks this is a hoax...while also trying to keep deaths down. It won't work, obviously.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 23, 2020, 09:09:57 AM

I've been going back and forth on this.  Does the President just not have the mental discipline to be consistent?  Or does he see this chaos as beneficial to him somehow?

Or another option.  Maybe the chaos actually IS beneficial and he's playing four dimensional chess here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 23, 2020, 09:23:16 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 23, 2020, 09:09:57 AM

I've been going back and forth on this.  Does the President just not have the mental discipline to be consistent?  Or does he see this chaos as beneficial to him somehow?

Or another option.  Maybe the chaos actually IS beneficial and he's playing four dimensional chess here.

I think he wants to be on the record both ways. If states open up and things go well, he can take credit. If states open up and things go poorly, he can throw the governors under the bus.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 23, 2020, 09:26:16 AM

Found out last night that my apartment building has had multiple positive cases... which are now cleared. Sweet.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on April 23, 2020, 09:30:24 AM

There is an antibody test to see if you have already had COVID-19 available to anyone who wants one in Chicago at Fullerton and Ashland. Out of pocket cost is $275.

https://wgntv.com/news/coronavirus/lincoln-park-facility-among-the-first-to-offer-testing-for-coronavirus-antibodies/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 23, 2020, 10:11:08 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 23, 2020, 09:09:57 AM

I've been going back and forth on this.  Does the President just not have the mental discipline to be consistent?  Or does he see this chaos as beneficial to him somehow?

Or another option.  Maybe the chaos actually IS beneficial and he's playing four dimensional chess here.

Its all symptoms of Narcissistic Syndrome.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 23, 2020, 10:26:51 AM

Quote from: Coleman on April 23, 2020, 09:30:24 AM

There is an antibody test to see if you have already had COVID-19 available to anyone who wants one in Chicago at Fullerton and Ashland. Out of pocket cost is $275.

https://wgntv.com/news/coronavirus/lincoln-park-facility-among-the-first-to-offer-testing-for-coronavirus-antibodies/

I would strongly advise that no-one waste their money on this. The results have no clinical significance or value, and companies like these are being predatory, trying to profit off peoples fears, and in the process charging a massive fee, for a test that is pretty cheap to buy and run.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 23, 2020, 10:28:30 AM

Quote from: forgetful on April 23, 2020, 10:26:51 AM

I would strongly advise that no-one waste their money on this. The results have no clinical significance or value, and companies like these are being predatory, trying to profit off peoples fears, and in the process charging a massive fee, for a test that is pretty cheap to buy and run.

So there is a business opportunity here?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 23, 2020, 10:38:20 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on April 23, 2020, 10:28:30 AM

So there is a business opportunity here?

Ha ha, but yes. There will be some significant profit taking by predatory branches of the broad medical field.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on April 23, 2020, 10:44:57 AM

Do you mean the tests are no good?

I'm fine with them charging more for scarcity in the short term, as long as its a valid test. I think it is up to people if they want to decide it is worth it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 23, 2020, 11:01:12 AM

Quote from: Coleman on April 23, 2020, 10:44:57 AM

Do you mean the tests are no good?

I'm fine with them charging more for scarcity in the short term, as long as its a valid test. I think it is up to people if they want to decide it is worth it.

All the tests have to be marketed with the caveat that they should not be used for clinical guidance. They are not that accurate. They are useful for epidemiologists in hard hit areas with a lot of infections (like NY), they are not that useful right now elsewhere.

Related to this, a cool large study in NY. The NY study indicates that if we also include all the deaths that occurred in peoples homes, or on streets, (so not in hospital or nursing home), the mortality rate is likely around 0.8-1%, which is in line with the original estimates, but below the on paper reports from testing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 23, 2020, 11:19:26 AM

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-hhschief-speci/special-report-former-labradoodle-breeder-was-tapped-to-lead-us-pandemic-task-force-idUSKCN2243CE

I honestly read this and thought it had to be the onion. Two quotes:

"Azar tapped a trusted aide with minimal public health experience to lead the agency’s day-to-day response to COVID-19. The aide, Brian Harrison, had joined the department after running a dog-breeding business for six years."

"Harrison, 37, was an unusual choice, with no formal education in public health, management, or medicine and with only limited experience in the fields."

Yeah, and we wonder why testing was and still is a disaster.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warrior2008 on April 23, 2020, 11:23:34 AM

Quote from: Coleman on April 23, 2020, 10:44:57 AM

Do you mean the tests are no good?

I'm fine with them charging more for scarcity in the short term, as long as its a valid test. I think it is up to people if they want to decide it is worth it.

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2020/04/22/gottlieb-antibody-testing-coronavirus-fda-squawk-box.html

There are serious concerns about testing specificity regarding any of the Covid-19 serology tests which is why the FDA has told people they are essentially useless on an individual basis. There are significant risks of false positives when using them on a person to person basis, but for epidemiologists, they could be perhaps useful when determining general penetrance of the virus in certain areas of the country.

Plus with how quickly we are rolling things out right now due to the throw everything against the wall and see what sticks response, the FDA is not reviewing these tests independently and relying on companies to do their own testing of the product.  Obviously that's a huge conflict of interest. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on April 23, 2020, 11:28:26 AM

Quote from: forgetful on April 23, 2020, 11:01:12 AM

All the tests have to be marketed with the caveat that they should not be used for clinical guidance. They are not that accurate. They are useful for epidemiologists in hard hit areas with a lot of infections (like NY), they are not that useful right now elsewhere.

Related to this, a cool large study in NY. The NY study indicates that if we also include all the deaths that occurred in peoples homes, or on streets, (so not in hospital or nursing home), the mortality rate is likely around 0.8-1%, which is in line with the original estimates, but below the on paper reports from testing.

But would that stat also take into account everyone who had mild or no symptoms and never sought testing or treatment?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 23, 2020, 11:35:44 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 23, 2020, 07:52:43 AM

China flare up.  I wonder if related to spread within China or with the proximity of NK coming from there. 

 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/23/world/asia/china-coronavirus-new-infections.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/23/world/asia/china-coronavirus-new-infections.html)

Scary part of that article - reinforces that even WITH testing, this is hard to stop...

Quote

the outbreak in Harbin could be traced back to a woman who flew to China from the United States in mid-March, and that it had also spread to nearby Liaoning Province.

Officials tested the woman four times, and each time the result came back negative. Later, after she had given the virus to her neighbor, she was confirmed to have been infected. Thus far, the outbreak has spread to at least 78 people, according to the authorities.

Now - she could have been wiser - if you have symptons, of ANY sickness, don't go socialize with your neighbor.  And in these times - wait a few days after you feel better to unleash yourself on the world again.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 23, 2020, 11:39:07 AM

Quote from: warriorchick on April 23, 2020, 11:28:26 AM

But would that stat also take into account everyone who had mild or no symptoms and never sought testing or treatment?

Yes, through antibody testing they found that on average 13.9% have been infected. That number is a bit high for two reasons. 1) They only surveyed people that were readily out and about, not ones quarantining. 2) The numbers in upstate NY are pretty close to the error rate of the tests.

As a rough back of the envelope calculation, I revised that down to 12% infected (honestly, it is likely lower, because most were quarantining). That amounts to 2.3M infections in NY.

NY has reported 20,792 deaths. At that point, you have a mortality rate of 0.9%. That doesn't include deaths at home or in streets. I've seen estimates as high as 30% of deaths occurring at home/streets. I used 10%. That increases the number of total deaths to 22871, and roughly 1.0% mortality rate.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 23, 2020, 11:43:38 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 23, 2020, 11:35:44 AM

Now - she could have been wiser - if you have symptons, of ANY sickness, don't go socialize with your neighbor.  And in these times - wait a few days after you feel better to unleash yourself on the world again.

In mid March China was quarantining anyone entering the country.  Yet they blame The US and Russia?   I’m not buying it. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 23, 2020, 11:49:53 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 23, 2020, 11:43:38 AM

In mid March China was quarantining anyone entering the country.  Yet they blame The US and Russia?   I’m not buying it.

I don't know what you're not buying - but of course China is going to try to blame others.  It's way easier to do that than blame yourselves!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 23, 2020, 11:52:51 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 23, 2020, 11:49:53 AM

I don't know what you're not buying - but of course China is going to try to blame others.  It's way easier to do that than blame yourselves!

I meant the source cited at the start of the outbreak necessitating the lockdown.    Your broader point I agree with this thing is a rampant spreading virus. I should have qualified that. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 23, 2020, 11:54:20 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 23, 2020, 11:43:38 AM

In mid March China was quarantining anyone entering the country.  Yet they blame The US and Russia?   I’m not buying it.

Sometimes, 'leaders' or 'countries' attempt to blame others to cover their own failings.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 23, 2020, 12:04:02 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 23, 2020, 11:19:26 AM

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-hhschief-speci/special-report-former-labradoodle-breeder-was-tapped-to-lead-us-pandemic-task-force-idUSKCN2243CE

I honestly read this and thought it had to be the onion. Two quotes:

"Azar tapped a trusted aide with minimal public health experience to lead the agency’s day-to-day response to COVID-19. The aide, Brian Harrison, had joined the department after running a dog-breeding business for six years."

"Harrison, 37, was an unusual choice, with no formal education in public health, management, or medicine and with only limited experience in the fields."

Yeah, and we wonder why testing was and still is a disaster.

Like a president putting in charge of FEMA a guy who breeds horses?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on April 23, 2020, 12:15:02 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 23, 2020, 12:04:02 PM

Like a president putting in charge of FEMA a guy who breeds horses?

No need to spread rumors. He was a Labradoodle breeder.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-hhschief-speci/special-report-hhs-chief-azar-had-aide-former-dog-breeder-steer-pandemic-task-force-idUSKCN2243CE

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 23, 2020, 12:41:46 PM

Quote from: Skatastrophy on April 23, 2020, 12:15:02 PM

No need to spread rumors. He was a Labradoodle breeder.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-hhschief-speci/special-report-hhs-chief-azar-had-aide-former-dog-breeder-steer-pandemic-task-force-idUSKCN2243CE

I think he is talking about “your doing a hell of a job Brownie”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 23, 2020, 12:54:26 PM

https://crooksandliars.com/2020/04/rant-scarborough-rips-trumps-refusal

Really scary stuff.

Gloomy outlook for fall. Trump minimizing possible fall outbreak just as he did in January, February, and March.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 23, 2020, 01:18:39 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 23, 2020, 10:26:51 AM

I would strongly advise that no-one waste their money on this. The results have no clinical significance or value, and companies like these are being predatory, trying to profit off peoples fears, and in the process charging a massive fee, for a test that is pretty cheap to buy and run.

If it is cheap and easy to run then buy June 1 each state should start bringing people in to test each individual to see who has had the virus and run every few months maybe

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 23, 2020, 01:26:07 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on April 23, 2020, 01:18:39 PM

If it is cheap and easy to run then buy June 1 each state should start bringing people in to test each individual to see who has had the virus and run every few months maybe

States are doing this now. NY just released a major study on this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 23, 2020, 02:07:47 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 23, 2020, 01:26:07 PM

States are doing this now. NY just released a major study on this.

that is a good step. 
This virus hits everyone at so many different levels, tough when you have a HS junior that has dreamed of getting a basketball scholarship his entire life and his critical aau season in all likely hood is taken away

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 23, 2020, 02:35:34 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 23, 2020, 11:35:44 AM

Scary part of that article - reinforces that even WITH testing, this is hard to stop...

Now - she could have been wiser - if you have symptons, of ANY sickness, don't go socialize with your neighbor.  And in these times - wait a few days after you feel better to unleash yourself on the world again.

Which means if that is true, it doesn’t matter who is in charge this was going to overwhelm most institutions, especially democratic ones that believe in individual liberties. 

Your second paragraph is sound advice.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on April 23, 2020, 02:42:13 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 23, 2020, 02:35:34 PM

Which means if that is true, it doesn’t matter who is in charge this was going to overwhelm most institutions, especially democratic ones that believe in individual liberties. 

Your second paragraph is sound advice.

We know. The administration has knocked this out of the park. Couldn’t have possibly handled it any better. Very cohesive unit with all the right messages and all the right people in all the right places.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 23, 2020, 02:43:21 PM

Now today I'm talking to Wal*Mart about selling them flat wire for the company they hired to make masks for them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 23, 2020, 02:44:18 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 23, 2020, 12:41:46 PM

I think he is talking about “your doing a hell of a job Brownie”

Yes.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 23, 2020, 02:47:34 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 23, 2020, 02:35:34 PM

Which means if that is true, it doesn’t matter who is in charge this was going to overwhelm most institutions, especially democratic ones that believe in individual liberties. 

Your second paragraph is sound advice.

If only we were a totalitarian state like Germany and South Korea.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on April 23, 2020, 02:56:47 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on April 23, 2020, 02:47:34 PM

If only we were a totalitarian state like Germany and South Korea.

Or New Zealand

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 23, 2020, 04:05:38 PM

Doctors rethinking use of ventilators with COVID.  They are valuable tools, but may be causing problems, too.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-ventilators-specia-idUSKCN2251PE

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 23, 2020, 04:20:09 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 23, 2020, 04:05:38 PM

Doctors rethinking use of ventilators with COVID.  They are valuable tools, but may be causing problems, too.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-ventilators-specia-idUSKCN2251PE

Yep - this has been discussed for a week or two now. This illness is unique enough that it is challenging even the wisest and most experienced minds in medicine.

Just another reason why we don’t want to flood the hospitals all at once. The longer we can string this out, the more time it gives docs to figure out the best treatment strategies...and hopefully decrease the mortality rate.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 23, 2020, 04:24:26 PM

And another reason to never stop sciencing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 23, 2020, 08:10:27 PM

My wife went to Trader Joe's and waited in the spaced line for 30 minutes.  Everyone else as  wearing masks as requested by our Governor except a 60 year old couple.  The manager went inside and gave them a mask each and they said they yelled and screamed at him.  Threatened to sue.  Their rights blah, blah.  Oh yeah, and supposedly had a medical condition.  Everyone in line just groaned so my wife started to fake cough just to freak the screamers out which they did.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 23, 2020, 08:52:54 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 23, 2020, 08:10:27 PM

My wife went to Trader Joe's and waited in the spaced line for 30 minutes.  Everyone else as  wearing masks as requested by our Governor except a 60 year old couple.  The manager went inside and gave them a mask each and they said they yelled and screamed at him.  Threatened to sue.  Their rights blah, blah.  Oh yeah, and supposedly had a medical condition.  Everyone in line just groaned so my wife started to fake cough just to freak the screamers out which they did.

Good for her. Nut jobs deserve what they get

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 23, 2020, 10:45:30 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 23, 2020, 04:20:09 PM

Yep - this has been discussed for a week or two now. This illness is unique enough that it is challenging even the wisest and most experienced minds in medicine.

Just another reason why we don’t want to flood the hospitals all at once. The longer we can string this out, the more time it gives docs to figure out the best treatment strategies...and hopefully decrease the mortality rate.

What is the range of estimates re mortality rates?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Eldon on April 23, 2020, 11:09:25 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on April 23, 2020, 09:23:16 AM

I think he wants to be on the record both ways. If states open up and things go well, he can take credit. If states open up and things go poorly, he can throw the governors under the bus.

Yep

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 23, 2020, 11:39:31 PM

Here is a well-done article on the COVID-19 deaths that came out of the Indiana HS basketball tournament games played March 6.

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/high-school/2020/04/18/coronavirus-indiana-lawrence-central-basketball-sectional-10/5145870002/?fbclid=IwAR01APIY3yli0izdZyJ85Y0pLhgMUFfDVNxN7SmZFzKbYhThARNXQByH91U

It underscores how sporting events, concerts and the like are breeding grounds for this kind of thing -- and how just because things might "seem fine," it might not mean it's a great idea to stage these events any time soon.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 23, 2020, 11:52:16 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 23, 2020, 10:45:30 PM

What is the range of estimates re mortality rates?

All over the map. Initially I saw estimates of 2-3%, but with suspicion growing that there are more asymptomatic cases than previously believed, there is thinking that it might be around 1%.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 24, 2020, 12:14:14 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 23, 2020, 10:45:30 PM

What is the range of estimates re mortality rates?

I commented on this a page or so ago. Based on an antibody test in NY, looks like 0.8-1% Maybe a hair or so higher depending on how deaths are being determined.

These values are in line with those out of SK and cruise ships.

Also could tilt a little higher in countries with more elderly (see Italy), or lower in countries with young populations. The latter could be why Africa may have not been as hard as originally expected. Very young population.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 24, 2020, 12:31:45 AM

Violate stay at home orders at your own risk....

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/494117-ohio-police-break-up-amish-barn-party-for-violating-stay-at

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on April 24, 2020, 12:44:22 AM

Should I inject Lysol, Chlorox, or a combination thereof?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 24, 2020, 06:23:14 AM

Sun-infused Clorox.  Or tanning booths.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HansMoleman on April 24, 2020, 07:29:53 AM

Quote from: Skatastrophy on April 23, 2020, 12:15:02 PM

No need to spread rumors. He was a Labradoodle breeder.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-hhschief-speci/special-report-hhs-chief-azar-had-aide-former-dog-breeder-steer-pandemic-task-force-idUSKCN2243CE

Fools

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2020/04/23/no-trump-did-not-put-a-labradoodle-breeder-in-charge-of-covid-19-response/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Elonsmusk on April 24, 2020, 07:36:14 AM

In case you haven't seen this good news:

https://www.businessnewsaus.com.au/articles/mesoblast-treatment-achieves--remarkable--results-for-critical-covid-19-patients.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 24, 2020, 08:20:29 AM

Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on April 24, 2020, 12:44:22 AM

Should I inject Lysol, Chlorox, or a combination thereof?

You can just drink it. Once it eats through your throat and stomach lining, it will mix with your blood and kill the virus.

Only downside I see is that you’ll be dead before the virus is killed, but we can live with that side effect.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 24, 2020, 09:28:30 AM

Quote from: Elonsmusk on April 24, 2020, 07:36:14 AM

In case you haven't seen this good news:

https://www.businessnewsaus.com.au/articles/mesoblast-treatment-achieves--remarkable--results-for-critical-covid-19-patients.html

Thanks for that, Ners. It is encouraging.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on April 24, 2020, 09:58:01 AM

Quote from: Elonsmusk on April 24, 2020, 07:36:14 AM

In case you haven't seen this good news:

https://www.businessnewsaus.com.au/articles/mesoblast-treatment-achieves--remarkable--results-for-critical-covid-19-patients.html

MESO is up 130% on the NASDAQ as of this typing.  Yowza!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 24, 2020, 10:11:03 AM

Yes, it is good news, I hope this works (I also hope all the other treatments work, the more effective medicines we have treating different aspects of this virus the better).

It still has to go through Phase 3 trial, however. The first results were based on only 12 non-randomized patients.  Let's hope it can prove equally effective in a clinical trial.

The other question I have is, how scalable is this (bone marrow aspirate) technique?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 24, 2020, 12:14:50 PM

Quote from: Elonsmusk on April 24, 2020, 07:36:14 AM

In case you haven't seen this good news:

https://www.businessnewsaus.com.au/articles/mesoblast-treatment-achieves--remarkable--results-for-critical-covid-19-patients.html

Not sure it we have folks knowledgeable on this here, but they got the stem cells from bone marrow transplants. From my knowledge, that is an incredibly painful process. Is this something that can be replicated without donors? How many people could be treated from one donation?

But yes, it is encouraging.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on April 24, 2020, 12:17:17 PM

I just read the English translation on Tripadvisor’s  Italy forum of an article about Patient#1 in Bologna. She entered the hospital February 28, has been healed since March 10, and is still testing positive for the virus ( at least as of April 16).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 24, 2020, 12:27:16 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on April 24, 2020, 12:17:17 PM

I just read the English translation on Tripadvisor’s  Italy forum of an article about Patient#1 in Bologna. She entered the hospital February 28, has been healed since March 10, and is still testing positive for the virus ( at least as of April 16).

I think the post just covered this below.

 https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/24/researchers-found-coronavirus-patients-eyes-days-after-it-left-her-nose/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/24/researchers-found-coronavirus-patients-eyes-days-after-it-left-her-nose/)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Elonsmusk on April 24, 2020, 12:36:25 PM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on April 24, 2020, 09:58:01 AM

MESO is up 130% on the NASDAQ as of this typing.  Yowza!

I bought 400 more shares pre-market at cost average of $13.75.  Rocketed to $20.  NASDAQ halted trading due to so much volume.  I put sell stop order in on those shares at 15.50.  Didn't expect it to get taken out, but, it did.  Still a nice win.  Held on to all the shares I bought 4 weeks ago at price of $6.15. 

My understanding is that MESO can scale up their treatment, AND if continues to be successful with a larger number of patients, it will absolutely allow for us to return to "normal" more quickly as we won't near the risk of death - and new data from New York suggests mortality rate is only .7% as is.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on April 24, 2020, 12:51:23 PM

Quote from: Elonsmusk on April 24, 2020, 12:36:25 PM

I bought 400 more shares pre-market at cost average of $13.75.  Rocketed to $20.  NASDAQ halted trading due to so much volume.  I put sell stop order in on those shares at 15.50.  Didn't expect it to get taken out, but, it did.  Still a nice win.  Held on to all the shares I bought 4 weeks ago at price of $6.15. 

My understanding is that MESO can scale up their treatment, AND if continues to be successful with a larger number of patients, it will absolutely allow for us to return to "normal" more quickly as we won't near the risk of death - and new data from New York suggests mortality rate is only .7% as is.

Not too shabby of an investment.  Don't know anything about this treatment but would be fantastic if it is scalable.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 24, 2020, 01:20:55 PM

Quote from: Elonsmusk on April 24, 2020, 12:36:25 PM

I bought 400 more shares pre-market at cost average of $13.75.  Rocketed to $20.  NASDAQ halted trading due to so much volume.  I put sell stop order in on those shares at 15.50.  Didn't expect it to get taken out, but, it did.  Still a nice win.  Held on to all the shares I bought 4 weeks ago at price of $6.15. 

My understanding is that MESO can scale up their treatment, AND if continues to be successful with a larger number of patients, it will absolutely allow for us to return to "normal" more quickly as we won't near the risk of death - and new data from New York suggests mortality rate is only .7% as is.

Congrats, close to a 3-bagger in a month is sweet.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 24, 2020, 01:22:48 PM

NC governor just announced that schools officially closed for the rest of the school year. Yesterday, he had announced an extension of our stay-at-home policy through May 8. After that, the economy can begin to re-open in 3 phases as long as certain COVID-19 benchmarks are being met.

If all goes well, NC can be close to "back to normal" by mid-June. The optimist in me thinks there's a chance for that, but the realist in me is concerned that many benchmarks will not be met.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 24, 2020, 01:37:47 PM

At least they have a plan. That is better than most.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on April 24, 2020, 02:33:05 PM

Free a, the woman I read about is a 23 year old model, so not the same person.
The article itself is in Italian, somebody on their forum kindly translated it.
I confess I do not know how to cut and paste prior posts, so I apologize if that makes this confusing. 🤔

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 24, 2020, 02:41:52 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on April 24, 2020, 01:37:47 PM

At least they have a plan. That is better than most.

I think many states have plans, but NC just happens to be one of the first states ready to begin Phase One, according to the timeline of decline in new cases. There was a list posted somewhere that gave rough dates by state, but I can't seem to find it.

I believe it estimated that one state (Montana? Wyoming?) would be ready by May 1, with four or five others (including NC) ready about a week later.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 24, 2020, 03:27:04 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on April 24, 2020, 01:37:47 PM

At least they have a plan. That is better than most.

Actually, many governors have the same plan.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 24, 2020, 04:18:06 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 24, 2020, 02:41:52 PM

I think many states have plans, but NC just happens to be one of the first states ready to begin Phase One, according to the timeline of decline in new cases. There was a list posted somewhere that gave rough dates by state, but I can't seem to find it.

I believe it estimated that one state (Montana? Wyoming?) would be ready by May 1, with four or five others (including NC) ready about a week later.

We'll see. I'm hoping, but not counting on it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 24, 2020, 07:40:33 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 24, 2020, 03:27:04 PM

Actually, many governors have the same plan.

SC, GA, and FL don’t.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 24, 2020, 10:04:09 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on April 24, 2020, 07:40:33 PM

SC, GA, and FL don’t.

Probably why he said ‘many’ instead of ‘all.’

I’m guessing about half follow through with rational, scientifically-driven plans, and about half get itchy and follow haphazard paths like SC, GA and FL.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 24, 2020, 10:38:46 PM

I'm still trying to figure out how a customer gets a pedicure, manicure, haircut, massage or tattoo from a practitioner standing or sitting 6 feet away.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 24, 2020, 11:31:16 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 24, 2020, 10:38:46 PM

I'm still trying to figure out how a customer gets a pedicure, manicure, haircut, massage or tattoo from a practitioner standing or sitting 6 feet away.

With a mask. Or a case of don't give a F, get this damn hair off of my head.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 25, 2020, 06:46:12 AM

Eventually salons are going to have to open before we have a vaccine right?  The fact is we are going to have to return to some semblance of "normal" that still isn't going to prevent the disease from spreading entirely.  People are still going to get sick and some are going to die.  Hopefuly we can mitigate the spread and get a better understanding of how to treat before we hopefully can get a vaccine. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 25, 2020, 07:21:40 AM

Many more will DIE!

#LastDays

Anyone tried the Lawnmower by Manscape?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 25, 2020, 07:43:17 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 25, 2020, 06:46:12 AM

Eventually salons are going to have to open before we have a vaccine right?  The fact is we are going to have to return to some semblance of "normal" that still isn't going to prevent the disease from spreading entirely.  People are still going to get sick and some are going to die.  Hopefuly we can mitigate the spread and get a better understanding of how to treat before we hopefully can get a vaccine.

I understand, and I agree.

But don't pretend that you are a governor who is still emphasizing social distancing when you are allowing businesses that do tattoos and manicures.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 25, 2020, 07:59:59 AM

Quote from: MU82 on April 25, 2020, 07:43:17 AM

I understand, and I agree.

But don't pretend that you are a governor who is still emphasizing social distancing when you are allowing businesses that do tattoos and manicures.

But that's going to happen.  Eventually its going to be about mitigating risk.  Salons, restaurants and retail shops are going to open AND people are still going to be working remotely, wearing masks and trying to stay six feet apart from one another.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 25, 2020, 08:03:26 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 25, 2020, 07:59:59 AM

But that's going to happen.  Eventually its going to be about mitigating risk.  Salons, restaurants and retail shops are going to open AND people are still going to be working remotely, wearing masks and trying to stay six feet apart from one another.

I disagree in that this has always been about mitigating risk.  Thats what the guidelines are for.  To tell states when things have moved from 'out of control' to 'something manageable'. 

Case in point - this is an essential industry...if we cant figure it out here, a hair salon is infinitely more complex.

https://thehill.com/homenews/494053-tyson-foods-closes-iowa-pork-plant-indefinitely (https://thehill.com/homenews/494053-tyson-foods-closes-iowa-pork-plant-indefinitely)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 25, 2020, 09:21:06 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 25, 2020, 08:03:26 AM

I disagree in that this has always been about mitigating risk.  Thats what the guidelines are for.  To tell states when things have moved from 'out of control' to 'something manageable'. 

Agree completely.

If a state truly wants to "mitigate risk," then at a minimum it would follow the three-phase plan laid out by the administration. States that open before meeting the criteria are simply living with a higher level of risk and hoping for a miracle. And 'hoping for a miracle' is not the same as mitigating risk.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 25, 2020, 11:03:16 AM

 https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/24/strokes-coronavirus-young-patients/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/24/strokes-coronavirus-young-patients/)

Geez this thing is nasty.  I guess now is a good time to familiarize yourself with the FAST test. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 25, 2020, 11:11:51 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 25, 2020, 09:21:06 AM

If a state truly wants to "mitigate risk," then at a minimum it would follow the three-phase plan laid out by the administration. States that open before meeting the criteria are simply living with a higher level of risk and hoping for a miracle. And 'hoping for a miracle' is not the same as mitigating risk.

Yep.

We all know (or at least hope) normal-ish life is going to happen again eventually. When you're a GOP governor whose re-opening plan is so loose that even President Pandemic criticizes it for being too much too soon, it's probably waaaay too much and waaaay too soon.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 25, 2020, 11:55:51 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 25, 2020, 11:03:16 AM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/24/strokes-coronavirus-young-patients/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/24/strokes-coronavirus-young-patients/)

Geez this thing is nasty.  I guess now is a good time to familiarize yourself with the FAST test.

And we really have no idea why some people are affected so hard, and others not. A lot of these with unusual deaths, are in people with no preexisting conditions.

So weird. And I still think we are all (well most 60% wish) likely to get this sometime between now and next May. It's quite honestly a role of the dice on which of us are affected hard or not at all (asymptomatic).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 25, 2020, 12:13:58 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 25, 2020, 11:03:16 AM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/24/strokes-coronavirus-young-patients/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/24/strokes-coronavirus-young-patients/)

Geez this thing is nasty.  I guess now is a good time to familiarize yourself with the FAST test.

Because I wasn't familiar with FAST - a PSA...

Quote

FAST is an acronym used as a mnemonic to help detect and enhance responsiveness to the needs of a person having a stroke. The acronym stands for Facial drooping, Arm weakness, Speech difficulties and Time to call emergency services.

Facial drooping: A section of the face, usually only on one side, that is drooping and hard to move. This can be recognized by a crooked smile.
Arm weakness: The inability to raise one's arm fully
Speech difficulties: An inability or difficulty to understand or produce speech
Time: If any of the symptoms above are showing, time is of the essence; call the emergency services and go to the hospital immediately.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 25, 2020, 01:10:05 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 25, 2020, 11:55:51 AM

And we really have no idea why some people are affected so hard, and others not. A lot of these with unusual deaths, are in people with no preexisting conditions.

So weird. And I still think we are all (well most 60% wish) likely to get this sometime between now and next May. It's quite honestly a role of the dice on which of us are affected hard or not at all (asymptomatic).

It is a strange pattern. Hopefully docs can find some common denominator so those who are truly at elevated risk can take additional precautions (or perhaps be given priority access to convalescent plasma as soon as they are infected?) to mitigate the number and severity of nasty outcomes.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 25, 2020, 01:14:04 PM

Different hospitals have different levels of stroke mitigation.   If you live in an area with multiple hospitals, do a little research as to which is the most advanced.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on April 25, 2020, 03:20:34 PM

https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/immunity-passports-in-the-context-of-covid-19

The Scarlet A makes a comeback.  (Antibodies)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 25, 2020, 06:48:11 PM

This is nuts.  96% asymptomatic across 4 different prisons?  It feels like the further we get into this, the less we know.

 https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/494670-ninety-six-percent-of-inmates-in-four-state-prisons-who-tested-positive (https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/494670-ninety-six-percent-of-inmates-in-four-state-prisons-who-tested-positive)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 25, 2020, 07:59:32 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 25, 2020, 06:48:11 PM

This is nuts.  96% asymptomatic across 4 different prisons?  It feels like the further we get into this, the less we know.

 https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/494670-ninety-six-percent-of-inmates-in-four-state-prisons-who-tested-positive (https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/494670-ninety-six-percent-of-inmates-in-four-state-prisons-who-tested-positive)

Actually sounds about right with everything that is out the there.  The amount that get sick enough to need hospital attention is very low. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 25, 2020, 08:06:47 PM

Rumors starting that Trump is thinking of replacing Alex Azar as HHS Secretary.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-26/white-house-denies-report-it-s-replacing-health-secretary-azar

Would not be surprising as he oversaw CDC and FDA’s initial decisions, and has been conspicuously absent from the daily pep rallies. And Fauci and Birx are way too popular to use as scapegoats.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 25, 2020, 08:24:12 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 25, 2020, 06:48:11 PM

This is nuts.  96% asymptomatic across 4 different prisons?  It feels like the further we get into this, the less we know.

 https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/494670-ninety-six-percent-of-inmates-in-four-state-prisons-who-tested-positive (https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/494670-ninety-six-percent-of-inmates-in-four-state-prisons-who-tested-positive)

This likely reflects viral load differences. The prisoners are likely being infected by low viral loads, and not having the main initial infection be via the lungs.

I mentioned it previously, but I think viral load and route of infection is what is driving a lot of the discrepancies, and why doctors/nurses exposed to aerosolized virus are being hit so hard.

There's something else odd about this study. In this study 2028 of the cases come from one prison. They tested 2300, that means in that prison 88% were positive at the time the tests were run. That doesn't make sense, it should have spread gradually, meaning some should have recovered if close to 90% were infected. It was also a prison where most with elderly with multiple pre-existing conditions.

We know from nursing homes, that 96% are not asymptomatic. I wonder if these prisons are having poor testing procedures and are cross contaminating samples, or performing them incorrectly.

Otherwise, we need to find out what is in the water in prisons, if 96% of elderly with pre-existing conditions don't even get symptoms.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HansMoleman on April 27, 2020, 08:50:41 AM

Detailed article on why Sweden's path was the right way to go

https://medium.com/@don.donovan/what-should-we-do-about-covid19-9c3b1719b77d

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 27, 2020, 08:53:52 AM

Quote from: HansMoleman on April 27, 2020, 08:50:41 AM

Detailed article on why Sweden's path was the right way to go

https://medium.com/@don.donovan/what-should-we-do-about-covid19-9c3b1719b77d

Any article that starts with "death rate fraud" is going to be ignored.  Clearly there are problems with the stat, but they are way overblowing it.  And using "fraud" to describe it is disingenuous.

And not only that, but what do people think is going to happen here?  Things ARE going to open back up.  Some at the end of this week.  Some in two weeks.  Some a bit later.  Bascially the "Sweden-model" is going to be in place here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 27, 2020, 09:00:54 AM

Again, if the United States had a better nanny state health Care system, lower co-morbidity rates, an excess of beds, I would favor what Sweden did.   By 'flattening the curve', they are gaining time to understand the virus better and prepare for the long slog ahead.   I would like an effective treatment regime in place.   I expect most will.   But as the understanding grows, the ability to open things back up with appropriate precautions will grow.   I expect the month of May will have both a reopening of society AND a new surge in infections, but a better understanding of how to manage it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 27, 2020, 09:03:00 AM

Or, if we had a better safety net in place, there would be less angst about a couple of additional weeks of safer in place.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on April 27, 2020, 09:03:44 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 27, 2020, 09:03:00 AM

Or, if we had a better safety net in place, there would be less angst about a couple of additional weeks of safer in place.

Exactly.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 27, 2020, 10:08:07 AM

Yup.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 27, 2020, 10:53:19 AM

In the early weeks of coronavirus - the US saw over 15,000 additional deaths in the country than usual that probably were because of the virus, but not counted as such. This was at the time when there were well under 10,000 confirmed deaths.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on April 27, 2020, 11:13:56 AM

Quote from: Jockey on April 27, 2020, 10:53:19 AM

In the early weeks of coronavirus - the US saw over 15,000 additional deaths in the country than usual that probably were because of the virus, but not counted as such. This was at the time when there were well under 10,000 confirmed deaths.

The studies of this postmortem will be fascinating.  Because if there is an increase in deaths AFTER the shutdown that is even more frightening as less people are out and about (less car accidents,  work incidents, etc.).  But you also have to consider maybe some people died of non-COVID reasons that normally would not because they were afraid to go to the hospital.

It will probably take some time to go through all of the metrics to figure out the real death count due to the virus.  I suspect, though,  that we are currently under-counting if anything,  not over-counting.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on April 27, 2020, 11:36:29 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 27, 2020, 08:53:52 AM

Any article that starts with "death rate fraud" is going to be ignored.  Clearly there are problems with the stat, but they are way overblowing it.  And using "fraud" to describe it is disingenuous.

And not only that, but what do people think is going to happen here?  Things ARE going to open back up.  Some at the end of this week.  Some in two weeks.  Some a bit later.  Bascially the "Sweden-model" is going to be in place here.

I agree that "fraud" is the wrong word, but .. the concept that there is a "real" death rate is not entirely wrong.    What we're finding about massive asymptomatic populations is that our case undercount is astronomical.

I also agree the "Sweden Model" is going to be put in place eventually -- except I'd bet on openings .. and future closings when there's the inevitable surge(s).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 27, 2020, 11:42:16 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 27, 2020, 11:36:29 AM

I agree that "fraud" is the wrong word, but .. the concept that there is a "real" death rate is not entirely wrong.    What we're finding about massive asymptomatic populations is that our case undercount is astronomical.

I also agree the "Sweden Model" is going to be put in place eventually -- except I'd bet on openings .. and future closings when there's the inevitable surge(s).

China just closed gyms in Beijing.  The more you poke around, the less that you find any instance where this was stamped out and hasnt re-emerged with renewed restrictions.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on April 27, 2020, 12:12:39 PM

I don't think its a given that we are going to see future closings to combat surges.  We in the US have shown (what to me anyway) appears to be a unique degree of polarization regarding the costs/benefits of quarantine.  I think that the appetite to close back down, even in the face of infection rate surges, will be extremely low.  Barring absolute catastrophe - like hospitals across the country looking like NY with Italy-type death rates, and maybe still not even then - I think we press ahead with degrees of reopening only from here on out.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 27, 2020, 01:40:52 PM

Quote from: MUBurrow on April 27, 2020, 12:12:39 PM

Barring absolute catastrophe - like hospitals across the country looking like NY with Italy-type death rates, and maybe still not even then - I think we press ahead with degrees of reopening only from here on out.

Just to cover all my bases, I agree, and disagree!  I think many businesses (mine, and my wife's included) are settling in on what the "new normal" will be for the foreseeable future (which, admittedly, might mean only a couple months).  That is:
 1) neither company has had any layoffs or furloughs (though regardless, the following may still be true)
 2) Offices have been closed, or extremely sparse (<= 10% attendance)
 3) In the near term, offices will be ramped up to 20-50% attendance
 4) But no current plans to bring more than that back.  Much more WFH than in the past, going forward.

Distancing, and employee safety is the focus - and no changes to that are expected in the next few months.  Commercial real-estate is probably going to suffer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 27, 2020, 02:45:44 PM

Quote from: MUBurrow on April 27, 2020, 12:12:39 PM

I don't think its a given that we are going to see future closings to combat surges.  We in the US have shown (what to me anyway) appears to be a unique degree of polarization regarding the costs/benefits of quarantine.  I think that the appetite to close back down, even in the face of infection rate surges, will be extremely low.  Barring absolute catastrophe - like hospitals across the country looking like NY with Italy-type death rates, and maybe still not even then - I think we press ahead with degrees of reopening only from here on out.

This ... probably.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HansMoleman on April 27, 2020, 03:27:40 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 27, 2020, 01:40:52 PM

Just to cover all my bases, I agree, and disagree!  I think many businesses (mine, and my wife's included) are settling in on what the "new normal" will be for the foreseeable future (which, admittedly, might mean only a couple months).  That is:
 1) neither company has had any layoffs or furloughs (though regardless, the following may still be true)
 2) Offices have been closed, or extremely sparse (<= 10% attendance)
 3) In the near term, offices will be ramped up to 20-50% attendance
 4) But no current plans to bring more than that back.  Much more WFH than in the past, going forward.

Distancing, and employee safety is the focus - and no changes to that are expected in the next few months.  Commercial real-estate is probably going to suffer.

So long, wework

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 27, 2020, 04:33:23 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 27, 2020, 01:40:52 PM

Commercial real-estate is probably going to suffer.

In spades. Warehouses will be valuable, but office space value is going down big time.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on April 27, 2020, 05:14:36 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 27, 2020, 04:33:23 PM

In spades. Warehouses will be valuable, but office space value is going down big time.

Yep.  I predict that this will be one of the most significant legacies of the virus.

Employers have discovered that many of their workers can perform their duties from home perfectly fine, and will be asking themselves why they are spending thousands of dollars in occupancy costs (rent, utilities, tech costs) per employee when they don't really need to.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 27, 2020, 05:26:55 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on April 27, 2020, 05:14:36 PM

Yep.  I predict that this will be one of the most significant legacies of the virus.

Employers have discovered that many of their workers can perform their duties from home perfectly fine, and will be asking themselves why they are spending thousands of dollars in occupancy costs (rent, utilities, tech costs) per employee when they don't really need to.

Agree, though this already happened at my firm and many others. Our office only had a ~60% occupancy rate on any given day, so we shrunk our footprint and went to an open/shared space. Kind of sucked, IMO, but $ almost exclusively drive every decision unfortunately.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on April 27, 2020, 06:01:40 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 27, 2020, 05:26:55 PM

Agree, though this already happened at my firm and many others. Our office only had a ~60% occupancy rate on any given day, so we shrunk our footprint and went to an open/shared space. Kind of sucked, IMO, but $ almost exclusively drive every decision unfortunately.

As every business decision should be (within ethical limits).  The problem is that many companies focus on short-term vs. long-term.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 27, 2020, 06:53:53 PM

Something to watch closely
Premier league looking to start in early June
Serie A starting end of may early June
German league to begin training in a couple weeks

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 27, 2020, 07:34:24 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on April 27, 2020, 06:53:53 PM

Something to watch closely
Premier league looking to start in early June
Serie A starting end of may early June
German league to begin training in a couple weeks

Gives us an idea of path forward.  Hopefully we can get some form of baseball this year.

Even with empty stadiums, its not like anything would change for the Marlins.  ;D

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 27, 2020, 08:12:12 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 27, 2020, 07:34:24 PM

Gives us an idea of path forward.  Hopefully we can get some form of baseball this year.

Even with empty stadiums, its not like anything would change for the Marlins. ;D

Hey!  ;D

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 27, 2020, 08:34:57 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on April 27, 2020, 06:01:40 PM

As every business decision should be (within ethical limits).  The problem is that many companies focus on short-term vs. long-term.

Indeed, and that is the potential problem I see. For me personally, I get a ton of value by being able to collaborate, often informally, with my colleagues. That just isn't possible when no one is in the office, and it is far more difficult via IM or WebEx/Zoom. And more broadly, I don't see how the folks with 0-3 years of experience are supposed to learn and be mentored remotely.

But, I'll allow that maybe I am just old and set in my ways and that it will all work out fine, but it was a decision driven by $ rather than long-term planning.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 28, 2020, 10:09:34 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 27, 2020, 08:34:57 PM

Indeed, and that is the potential problem I see. For me personally, I get a ton of value by being able to collaborate, often informally, with my colleagues. That just isn't possible when no one is in the office, and it is far more difficult via IM or WebEx/Zoom. And more broadly, I don't see how the folks with 0-3 years of experience are supposed to learn and be mentored remotely.

But, I'll allow that maybe I am just old and set in my ways and that it will all work out fine, but it was a decision driven by $ rather than long-term planning.

This is well reasoned in my view.  I'm semi-retired, but some jobs you need the day to day hands on interaction, mentorship.  The amount of knowledge picked up with face to face interactions is immeasurable.  Even casual settings such as walking to and from meetings with a colleague can elicit information that ends up critical. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 28, 2020, 10:30:54 AM

Outstanding article on how Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine has expertly and decisively handled the pandemic. Though some politicians from his own party have disagreed with him, his popularity has soared among the people he serves.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/28/us/politics/mike-dewine-ohio-coronavirus.html?campaign_id=56&emc=edit_cn_20200428&instance_id=17999&nl=on-politics-with-lisa-lerer&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=26119&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 28, 2020, 11:30:56 AM

Quote from: MU82 on April 28, 2020, 10:30:54 AM

Outstanding article on how Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine has expertly and decisively handled the pandemic. Though some politicians from his own party have disagreed with him, his popularity has soared among the people he serves.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/28/us/politics/mike-dewine-ohio-coronavirus.html?campaign_id=56&emc=edit_cn_20200428&instance_id=17999&nl=on-politics-with-lisa-lerer&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=26119&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

OH -- IO

I think he's done well.  Also, our Director of the Department of Health (Amy Acton) has done a very good job.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 28, 2020, 03:00:56 PM

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration on Monday asked makers of hand sanitizers to add denatured alcohol to the products in order to make them less palatable in a bid to discourage people, especially children, from drinking the liquid.

The regulator’s advisory follows U.S. President Donald Trump’s recent comments on whether injecting disinfectants might treat COVID-19, which raised concerns that frightened people could poison themselves with untested treatments.

“Hand sanitizers are not proven to treat COVID-19, and like other products meant for external use, are not for ingestion, inhalation, or intravenous use,” FDA Commissioner Stephen Hahn said in a statement.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 28, 2020, 03:19:30 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 28, 2020, 10:09:34 AM

This is well reasoned in my view.  I'm semi-retired, but some jobs you need the day to day hands on interaction, mentorship.  The amount of knowledge picked up with face to face interactions is immeasurable.  Even casual settings such as walking to and from meetings with a colleague can elicit information that ends up critical.

Agreed. I could probably do my entire job remotely. But over many years of in-person office work, I got enormous benefits through informal mentorship or 'curbside consults' with colleagues in break rooms, in hallways, or through open doors to their offices. Since most of the 'meetings' were unplanned, they likely would never have occurred if I had been working remotely, and I wouldn't have developed as much professionally.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Its DJOver on April 28, 2020, 03:24:32 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on April 27, 2020, 06:53:53 PM

Something to watch closely
Premier league looking to start in early June
Serie A starting end of may early June
German league to begin training in a couple weeks

Ligue 1 and 2 cancelled, FIFA medical chief doesn't want a return in any capacity until September.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/52460468

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/52462233

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 28, 2020, 03:36:28 PM

Mike Pence was here today to visit the Mayo Clinic. I appreciate his appearance, but feel it was awfully arrogant of him to decline Mayo's request that he wear a mask.

https://www.startribune.com/vice-president-mike-pence-to-highlight-mayo-research-in-rochester-today/570006292/

FWIW, that's Mayo's CEO on the far left...wearing a mask.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 28, 2020, 04:23:28 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 28, 2020, 03:36:28 PM

Mike Pence was here today to visit the Mayo Clinic. I appreciate his appearance, but feel it was awfully arrogant of him to decline Mayo's request that he wear a mask.

https://www.startribune.com/vice-president-mike-pence-to-highlight-mayo-research-in-rochester-today/570006292/

FWIW, that's Mayo's CEO on the far left...wearing a mask.

Pence was informed of the mandatory mask policy at Mayo before the tour and refused to wear one. Easy to figure out why.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 28, 2020, 04:50:05 PM

Pretty interesting exercise to go back and read the posts at the beginning of this thread.  We got a few things right and a lot, lot wrong. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 28, 2020, 05:09:14 PM

Social distancing has helped “flatten the curve” of the coronavirus, but University of Washington public health researchers say the death toll from this wave of the pandemic is forecast to hit about 74,000 in the United States.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article242338406.html?

The researchers with the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation, whose coronavirus model is cited often by the White House and states, increased the prediction for U.S. deaths from about 67,600 in their newest forecast.

The model runs through Aug. 4, but the projected total of 74,073 deaths is reached on July 15. The current model projects no additional deaths between July 15 and Aug. 4.

Institute director Christopher Murray said that if states start opening too soon, the death toll from COVID-19 could be even higher, CBS News reports.

“While most states seem to have passed their epidemic peaks, seven — Hawaii, Mississippi, Texas, Wyoming, Utah, Nebraska, and North Dakota — may be experiencing their peaks now or could be in the coming weeks,” the Institute said.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 28, 2020, 05:46:08 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on April 28, 2020, 04:50:05 PM

Pretty interesting exercise to go back and read the posts at the beginning of this thread.  We got a few things right and a lot, lot wrong.

Goose was dead on early.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on April 28, 2020, 06:33:55 PM

Quote from: Its DJOver on April 28, 2020, 03:24:32 PM

Ligue 1 and 2 cancelled, FIFA medical chief doesn't want a return in any capacity until September.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/52460468

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/52462233

FIFA:
Hundreds, maybe thousands die rush building foolish stadiums in Qatar...NBD!

Comparatively small groups of players with elite and dedicated medical staffs playing with precautions being taken....BAD IDEA!

Quote from: TSmith34 on April 27, 2020, 08:34:57 PM

Indeed, and that is the potential problem I see. For me personally, I get a ton of value by being able to collaborate, often informally, with my colleagues. That just isn't possible when no one is in the office, and it is far more difficult via IM or WebEx/Zoom. And more broadly, I don't see how the folks with 0-3 years of experience are supposed to learn and be mentored remotely.

But, I'll allow that maybe I am just old and set in my ways and that it will all work out fine, but it was a decision driven by $ rather than long-term planning.

I imagine I’m significantly younger than you but I’m of the same mind. I’ve seen a lot of this push to remote working, as well as “this will be the end of business travel as we know it, zoom and teleconferencing will replace it”. Which is silly to me. I can do major parts of my job remotely, but there is so much lost by not interacting with my team and fellow management in person. You basically are restricted by the “worst” communicator in the group. If they are not super inclined to schedule calls or informal chats, that doesn’t get replaced.

And business travel? I accomplish more in a 2 hour visit/chat on a trip to Asia than I do in 3-6 months with a customer/colleague I work with closely. And these are people I talk to via text, phone, or email multiple times a week or month. There is a much more comfortable flow of information and collaborating, especially across languages, cultures, distance, in person. That will never be replaced. I have associates that if I left the business tomorrow, I would still be friends with and talk to regularly. To think that would happen cause we had Zoom meetings and tele-conferences makes me believe the person suggesting it never had much outward facing professional relationship building, by either desire or job function

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 28, 2020, 08:02:29 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 28, 2020, 05:09:14 PM

Social distancing has helped “flatten the curve” of the coronavirus, but University of Washington public health researchers say the death toll from this wave of the pandemic is forecast to hit about 74,000 in the United States.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article242338406.html?

The researchers with the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation, whose coronavirus model is cited often by the White House and states, increased the prediction for U.S. deaths from about 67,600 in their newest forecast.

The model runs through Aug. 4, but the projected total of 74,073 deaths is reached on July 15. The current model projects no additional deaths between July 15 and Aug. 4.

Institute director Christopher Murray said that if states start opening too soon, the death toll from COVID-19 could be even higher, CBS News reports.

“While most states seem to have passed their epidemic peaks, seven — Hawaii, Mississippi, Texas, Wyoming, Utah, Nebraska, and North Dakota — may be experiencing their peaks now or could be in the coming weeks,” the Institute said.

If Vegas reopens, I’m taking the over on those numbers. We’ll be over 67000 in less than a week and over 74000 by mid May.
Even if no new cases happened, the total death figure is going to rise past 67000 from existing cases.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 28, 2020, 08:20:29 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on April 28, 2020, 08:02:29 PM

If Vegas reopens, I’m taking the over on those numbers.

Yep. Wonder if the casinos will take bets on that...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on April 28, 2020, 09:57:05 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 28, 2020, 08:20:29 PM

Yep. Wonder if the casinos will take bets on that...

No idea how reputable but betmoose.com takes bets on covid related stuff.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 28, 2020, 10:24:56 PM

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-doctor-son-battling-virus-in-the-hospital/

This should be eye opening to those who think this is an old-persons disease. 4-year old, healthy, no pre-existing conditions, barely survived after a 1-month long illness. There are a lot of these stories out there for kids and other young people.

They were also seriously following stay-at-home guidelines and have no idea how he got infected.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 28, 2020, 11:32:44 PM

New C.D.C. data suggests the virus death toll is higher than reported.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-updates.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage#link-2e4de5b9

The number of total deaths in seven states hit hard by the coronavirus was nearly 50 percent higher than normal over a five-week span during the pandemic, according to new statistics released by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on Tuesday. There were 9,000 more deaths in those states than the official counts of coronavirus deaths suggest.

...

The gap between total mortality and the official count of coronavirus deaths probably reflects both an undercounting of coronavirus deaths and a surge in deaths from other causes. There is increasing evidence that stresses on the health care system and fears about catching the disease have caused some Americans to die from ailments that are typically treatable.


Not just an old persons’ disease, and most certainly not just ‘the flu.’

#trumpsterfire

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 28, 2020, 11:41:53 PM

And now, Trump has ordered meat plant workers back to work. A death sentence for many. He is not requiring the plants to protect workers. OSHA has been told to stand down.

This will have a tragic outcome. It should not be a choice between feeding Americans OR protecting workers. We can feed Americans AND protect workers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 29, 2020, 09:26:54 AM

Quote from: Jockey on April 28, 2020, 04:23:28 PM

Pence was informed of the mandatory mask policy at Mayo before the tour and refused to wear one. Easy to figure out why.

The Vice Hypocrite is getting ripped a new one everywhere -- even on Fox News.

He claimed he wanted to look at health-care workers "in the eye."  Well, if you're not an imbecile, you've put your mask on in a way that you can see. Just ask every surgeon in the world how they somehow are able to see as they fix people's brains, hearts and everything else while wearing masks.

Not following hospital policy when you are supposed to be setting an example for the entire country is disturbing, selfish and just plain inconsiderate.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 29, 2020, 10:06:26 AM

Quote from: MU82 on April 29, 2020, 09:26:54 AM

The Vice Hypocrite is getting ripped a new one everywhere -- even on Fox News.

He claimed he wanted to look at health-care workers "in the eye."  Well, if you're not an imbecile, you've put your mask on in a way that you can see. Just ask every surgeon in the world how they somehow are able to see as they fix people's brains, hearts and everything else while wearing masks.

Not following hospital policy when you are supposed to be setting an example for the entire country is disturbing, selfish and just plain inconsiderate.

Good.  Hard to imagine WTF he was thinking -- and I mean really thinking...not that "look them in the eye" crap.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 29, 2020, 10:08:24 AM

Quote from: MU82 on April 29, 2020, 09:26:54 AM

The Vice Hypocrite is getting ripped a new one everywhere -- even on Fox News.

He claimed he wanted to look at health-care workers "in the eye."  Well, if you're not an imbecile, you've put your mask on in a way that you can see. Just ask every surgeon in the world how they somehow are able to see as they fix people's brains, hearts and everything else while wearing masks.

Not following hospital policy when you are supposed to be setting an example for the entire country is disturbing, selfish and just plain inconsiderate.

Maybe Ron DeSantis taught him how to put on a mask.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/04/florida-ron-desantis-face-mask.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 29, 2020, 10:39:14 AM

https://twitter.com/TheDailyShow/status/1255225522919006210?s=20

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 29, 2020, 12:04:16 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 29, 2020, 09:26:54 AM

The Vice Hypocrite is getting ripped a new one everywhere -- even on Fox News.

He claimed he wanted to look at health-care workers "in the eye."  Well, if you're not an imbecile, you've put your mask on in a way that you can see. Just ask every surgeon in the world how they somehow are able to see as they fix people's brains, hearts and everything else while wearing masks.

Not following hospital policy when you are supposed to be setting an example for the entire country is disturbing, selfish and just plain inconsiderate.

God told him he had nothing to worry about.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 29, 2020, 01:01:28 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on March 23, 2020, 08:03:33 PM

This was inevitable sadly.

https://twitter.com/HeidiNBC/status/1242238268277755905?s=19

Even more sad, she is now a subject of a homicide investigation.  She may have killed her husband and he had no idea what was going on. 

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2020/04/29/az-woman-who-blamed-trump-for-chloroquine-ingestion-now-subject-of-homicide-inves-n2567839

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 29, 2020, 01:16:26 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 29, 2020, 01:01:28 PM

Even more sad, she is now a subject of a homicide investigation.  She may have killed her husband and he had no idea what was going on. 

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2020/04/29/az-woman-who-blamed-trump-for-chloroquine-ingestion-now-subject-of-homicide-inves-n2567839

(https://i.redd.it/gln6bwoamx121.jpg)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 29, 2020, 01:22:58 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on April 29, 2020, 01:16:26 PM

(https://i.redd.it/gln6bwoamx121.jpg)

Media covered the initial story extensively.  His friends fought back and said he was a brilliant man, engineer, would never do such a thing.  Finally their concerns have led to this investigation.  Not sure the media will cover this with the same tenacity they originally did because their target crosshairs are aligned for one person and this makes them look bad.  Bill Maher said it so well a few weeks ago, if the media did their job without the piling on vendettas this guy would be creamed.  But they overextend so much with these types of stories that they can become fake news and come back to burn them all because they wanted to pile on. Report the facts, don't sensationalize, the gotcha journalism should be avoided and you take away one of his biggest weapons.  Maher doesn't think they are capable, and neither do I.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on April 29, 2020, 01:48:12 PM

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-hongkong-coating/hk-scientists-say-new-antiviral-coating-can-protect-surfaces-for-90-days-idUSKCN2290S5

This could be interesting, if true.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 29, 2020, 01:58:59 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 29, 2020, 01:01:28 PM

Even more sad, she is now a subject of a homicide investigation.  She may have killed her husband and he had no idea what was going on. 

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2020/04/29/az-woman-who-blamed-trump-for-chloroquine-ingestion-now-subject-of-homicide-inves-n2567839

So you post an extremely partisan article, that offers no evidence that she tried to kill him, that mainly focuses on attacking the media and the left.

You do this to point out how the media, is biased towards the left, and publishes poorly investigated stories to attack Trump. Do you see the issues with your approach? You are the one jumping to conclusions.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 29, 2020, 02:15:36 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 29, 2020, 01:58:59 PM

So you post an extremely partisan article, that offers no evidence that she tried to kill him, that mainly focuses on attacking the media and the left.

You do this to point out how the media, is biased towards the left, and publishes poorly investigated stories to attack Trump. Do you see the issues with your approach? You are the one jumping to conclusions.

As a lifelong Democrat I am happy to have the media on  my side, until they overstep their bounds.  I want fairness in reporting.  There is a reason when the media is attacked, the defenders are on the left because they champion most of our causes.  The same reason the right defends businesses. That doesn't happen by accident.

My son is a conservative, he sent it to me. He asked if I had seen any stories about this on CNN or other broadcasts I watch.   He knows that I am a moderate and open to various sides. He also knows that my news consumption doesn't always grab other points of view, though I am trying to expand.  His point was the media really went to town on this story originally.   This may turn out to be nothing or even a normal protocol for these investigations.  I found the comments made by his friends about her and whether he would ever do this willingly to be persuading. 

Some of the other articles

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/woman-who-blamed-trump-after-giving-her-husband-fish-tank-cleaner-now-under-investigation-for-murder/

https://nypost.com/2020/04/29/homicide-cops-investigate-death-of-man-who-drank-chloroquine/

https://freebeacon.com/coronavirus/police-investigating-death-of-arizona-man-from-chloroquine-phosphate/

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/more-on-that-deadly-fish-tank-cleaner-cocktail/


This goes back to my statement last week.  There are some people that are gleeful at things not working as long as someone is proven wrong. Go back and read some of the comments.  I saw it for years when the right attacked just about everything Obama or Clinton did, and left with Bush and now Trump.  In a divided country, the few of us that aren't partisan do not have many places to go.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 29, 2020, 02:24:33 PM

Um.  They simply opened an investigation.  They haven't charged her with anything.  Here is the Washington Free Beacon story referenced:

https://freebeacon.com/coronavirus/police-investigating-death-of-arizona-man-from-chloroquine-phosphate/

They seem to be focusing on the fact that since she was charged with domestic violence 19 years ago and is a Democratic donor that she wanted to kill her husband and make him look bad in the process.

And they just added this part today:  "UPDATE, April 29, 11:17 A.M.: After publication, a spokesman for the Mesa City Police Department told the Free Beacon that it is "normal protocol" for the homicide department to investigate "all death cases (other than obvious natural causes)" and that the death "has not been ruled a homicide at this time."

So who is jumping to conclusions here???

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 29, 2020, 02:25:39 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 29, 2020, 02:15:36 PM

As a lifelong Democrat I am happy to have the media on  my side, until they overstep their bounds.  I want fairness in reporting.  There is a reason when the media is attacked, the defenders are on the left because they champion most of our causes.  The same reason the right defends businesses. That doesn't happen by accident.

My son is a conservative, he sent it to me. He asked if I had seen any stories about this on CNN or other broadcasts I watch.   He knows that I am a moderate and open to various sides. He also knows that my news consumption doesn't always grab other points of view, though I am trying to expand.  His point was the media really went to town on this story originally.   This may turn out to be nothing or even a normal protocol for these investigations.  I found the comments made by his friends about her and whether he would ever do this willingly to be persuading. 

Some of the other articles

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/woman-who-blamed-trump-after-giving-her-husband-fish-tank-cleaner-now-under-investigation-for-murder/

https://nypost.com/2020/04/29/homicide-cops-investigate-death-of-man-who-drank-chloroquine/

https://freebeacon.com/coronavirus/police-investigating-death-of-arizona-man-from-chloroquine-phosphate/

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/more-on-that-deadly-fish-tank-cleaner-cocktail/


This goes back to my statement last week.  There are some people that are gleeful at things not working as long as someone is proven wrong. Go back and read some of the comments.  I saw it for years when the right attacked just about everything Obama or Clinton did, and left with Bush and now Trump.  In a divided country, the few of us that aren't partisan do not have many places to go.

Chicos, you're lying again.  You are actually doing a really bad job of it too.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on April 29, 2020, 02:26:22 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 29, 2020, 02:15:36 PM

As a lifelong Democrat

Wow.  Lifelong democrat?  I am an independent and you are right of me.  I must be a hard core lefty.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: BM1090 on April 29, 2020, 02:30:31 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on April 29, 2020, 01:48:12 PM

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-hongkong-coating/hk-scientists-say-new-antiviral-coating-can-protect-surfaces-for-90-days-idUSKCN2290S5

This could be interesting, if true.

Available for commercial purchase now. Interesting.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on April 29, 2020, 02:44:17 PM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on April 29, 2020, 02:26:22 PM

Wow.  Lifelong democrat?  I am an independent and you are right of me.  I must be a hard core lefty.

I joined the party almost 50 years ago when half of us in the party were pro life, more than half owned guns, we were pro American worker with strong borders, anti-cheap labor, but American.  A lot has changed.  My wife was a lifelong Democrat and is now independent.  I may have to go the same way, but have never voted anything but Democrat my entire adult life for President, Governor and Senators.  If Warren or Sanders would have won the nomination, that would have changed this year.  I am what is a Blue Dog Democrat I suppose. Joe Lieberman is my kind of guy. He could not be elected dog catcher today in the party. Paul Simon. 

In 1997, only 28% of the party described themselves as liberal.  In the 1970's, that was less than 10%.  Today, it is more than 50%.  The party has changed.

I don't know enough about you, nor you of me to make any assertions of what you are.  Both sides have good ideas and bad ideas.  I'm not of the kind that thinks because a letter next to their name is not the party I belong to automatically means it is rotten and cheer for it to fail.  Too many people do, however.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 29, 2020, 02:55:26 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 29, 2020, 02:44:17 PM

I joined the party almost 50 years ago when half of us in the party were pro life, more than half owned guns, we were pro American worker with strong borders, anti-cheap labor, but American.  A lot has changed.  My wife was a lifelong Democrat and is now independent.  I may have to go the same way, but have never voted anything but Democrat my entire adult life for President, Governor and Senators.  If Warren or Sanders would have won the nomination, that would have changed this year.  I am what is a Blue Dog Democrat I suppose. Joe Lieberman is my kind of guy. He could not be elected dog catcher today in the party. Paul Simon. 

In 1997, only 28% of the party described themselves as liberal.  In the 1970's, that was less than 10%.  Today, it is more than 50%.  The party has changed.

I don't know enough about you, nor you of me to make any assertions of what you are.  Both sides have good ideas and bad ideas.  I'm not of the kind that thinks because a letter next to their name is not the party I belong to automatically means it is rotten and cheer for it to fail.  Too many people do, however.

I mean, it's pretty hard to reconcile the two bolded statements.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 29, 2020, 03:12:04 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 29, 2020, 02:24:33 PM

Um.  They simply opened an investigation.  They haven't charged her with anything.  Here is the Washington Free Beacon story referenced:

https://freebeacon.com/coronavirus/police-investigating-death-of-arizona-man-from-chloroquine-phosphate/

They seem to be focusing on the fact that since she was charged with domestic violence 19 years ago and is a Democratic donor that she wanted to kill her husband and make him look bad in the process.

And they just added this part today:  "UPDATE, April 29, 11:17 A.M.: After publication, a spokesman for the Mesa City Police Department told the Free Beacon that it is "normal protocol" for the homicide department to investigate "all death cases (other than obvious natural causes)" and that the death "has not been ruled a homicide at this time."

So who is jumping to conclusions here???

I suspected this might be the case, but since my law enforcement experience is limited to cop dramas on TV, I refrained from saying anything.

It will be interesting to see how the investigation is resolved.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on April 29, 2020, 03:20:05 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 29, 2020, 02:44:17 PM

I joined the party almost 50 years ago when half of us in the party were pro life, more than half owned guns, we were pro American worker with strong borders, anti-cheap labor, but American.  A lot has changed.  My wife was a lifelong Democrat and is now independent.  I may have to go the same way, but have never voted anything but Democrat my entire adult life for President, Governor and Senators.  If Warren or Sanders would have won the nomination, that would have changed this year.  I am what is a Blue Dog Democrat I suppose. Joe Lieberman is my kind of guy. He could not be elected dog catcher today in the party. Paul Simon. 

In 1997, only 28% of the party described themselves as liberal.  In the 1970's, that was less than 10%.  Today, it is more than 50%.  The party has changed.

I don't know enough about you, nor you of me to make any assertions of what you are.  Both sides have good ideas and bad ideas.  I'm not of the kind that thinks because a letter next to their name is not the party I belong to automatically means it is rotten and cheer for it to fail.  Too many people do, however.

No one cares. Enough non-COVID politics.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 29, 2020, 04:03:06 PM

Cheeks/chicos/Jams/hoopaloop was last allowed to post on Scoop on Feb. 25.

In the 2 months since, WarriorDad has made 291 posts.

His previous 291 contributions came over an 11-month stretch.

It was totally a coincidence that WarriorDad started amping up his Scoopin' 5-fold the very week Cheeks/chicos/Jams/hoopaloop got his latest lifetime banishment. Also a coincidence that the tone and content of his posts resemble those of Cheeks/chicos/Jams/hoopaloop.

Lifelong Democrat. That's precious. And some world-class hoopaloopin'!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 29, 2020, 04:03:40 PM

Quote from: BM1090 on April 29, 2020, 02:30:31 PM

Available for commercial purchase now. Interesting.

If this does work that could be huge to opening things

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on April 29, 2020, 04:05:17 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 29, 2020, 04:03:06 PM

Cheeks/chicos/Jams/hoopaloop was last allowed to post on Scoop on Feb. 25.

In the 2 months since, WarriorDad has made 291 posts.

His previous 291 contributions came over an 11-month stretch.

It was totally a coincidence that WarriorDad started amping up his Scoopin' 5-fold the very week Cheeks/chicos/Jams/hoopaloop got his latest lifetime banishment. Also a coincidence that the tone and content of his posts resemble those of Cheeks/chicos/Jams/hoopaloop.

Lifelong Democrat. That's precious. And some world-class hoopaloopin'!

so why does everyone take the bait?  ignore and move on

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on April 29, 2020, 04:09:18 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 29, 2020, 04:03:06 PM

Cheeks/chicos/Jams/hoopaloop was last allowed to post on Scoop on Feb. 25.

In the 2 months since, WarriorDad has made 291 posts.

His previous 291 contributions came over an 11-month stretch.

It was totally a coincidence that WarriorDad started amping up his Scoopin' 5-fold the very week Cheeks/chicos/Jams/hoopaloop got his latest lifetime banishment. Also a coincidence that the tone and content of his posts resemble those of Cheeks/chicos/Jams/hoopaloop.

Lifelong Democrat. That's precious. And some world-class hoopaloopin'!

Can the mods confirm?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 29, 2020, 04:11:22 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on April 29, 2020, 04:05:17 PM

so why does everyone take the bait?  ignore and move on

Gluttons for punishment?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 29, 2020, 04:23:50 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 29, 2020, 04:03:06 PM

Cheeks/chicos/Jams/hoopaloop was last allowed to post on Scoop on Feb. 25.

In the 2 months since, WarriorDad has made 291 posts.

His previous 291 contributions came over an 11-month stretch.

It was totally a coincidence that WarriorDad started amping up his Scoopin' 5-fold the very week Cheeks/chicos/Jams/hoopaloop got his latest lifetime banishment. Also a coincidence that the tone and content of his posts resemble those of Cheeks/chicos/Jams/hoopaloop.

Lifelong Democrat. That's precious. And some world-class hoopaloopin'!

Rent free.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 29, 2020, 05:03:00 PM

American deaths from COVID  > American deaths in Viet Nam.   

So we have that going for us. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 29, 2020, 05:15:11 PM

Quote from: tower912 on April 29, 2020, 05:03:00 PM

American deaths from COVID  > American deaths in Viet Nam.   

So we have that going for us.

And, sadly, U.S. death toll still growing exponentially.

As you noted, COVID-19 deaths just hit 60K today, 5 days after hitting 50K, which was 5 days after hitting 40K, which was 3 days after hitting 30K, which was 5 days after hitting 20K, which was 5 days after hitting 10K.

I sure hope the Gilead drug works, because more and more states are getting ready to let up on social distancing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 29, 2020, 05:20:57 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 29, 2020, 05:15:11 PM

And, sadly, U.S. death toll still growing exponentially.

This isn’t true. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on April 29, 2020, 05:21:04 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 29, 2020, 02:15:36 PM

As a lifelong Democrat I am happy to have the media on  my side, until they overstep their bounds.  I want fairness in reporting.  There is a reason when the media is attacked, the defenders are on the left because they champion most of our causes.  The same reason the right defends businesses. That doesn't happen by accident.

My son is a conservative, he sent it to me. He asked if I had seen any stories about this on CNN or other broadcasts I watch.   He knows that I am a moderate and open to various sides. He also knows that my news consumption doesn't always grab other points of view, though I am trying to expand.  His point was the media really went to town on this story originally.   This may turn out to be nothing or even a normal protocol for these investigations.  I found the comments made by his friends about her and whether he would ever do this willingly to be persuading. 

Some of the other articles

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/woman-who-blamed-trump-after-giving-her-husband-fish-tank-cleaner-now-under-investigation-for-murder/

https://nypost.com/2020/04/29/homicide-cops-investigate-death-of-man-who-drank-chloroquine/

https://freebeacon.com/coronavirus/police-investigating-death-of-arizona-man-from-chloroquine-phosphate/

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/more-on-that-deadly-fish-tank-cleaner-cocktail/


This goes back to my statement last week.  There are some people that are gleeful at things not working as long as someone is proven wrong. Go back and read some of the comments.  I saw it for years when the right attacked just about everything Obama or Clinton did, and left with Bush and now Trump.  In a divided country, the few of us that aren't partisan do not have many places to go.

I read the first four words and laughed so hard I couldn't continue on with the thread.

Thank you for the laugh, Cheeks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 29, 2020, 05:23:04 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 29, 2020, 05:15:11 PM

And, sadly, U.S. death toll still growing exponentially.

As you noted, COVID-19 deaths just hit 60K today, 5 days after hitting 50K, which was 5 days after hitting 40K, which was 3 days after hitting 30K, which was 5 days after hitting 20K, which was 5 days after hitting 10K.

I sure hope the Gilead drug works, because more and more states are getting ready to let up on social distancing.

The Gilead drug had a statistically significant effect on recovery duration. Which is great, because one of the limiting factors in survival may be accessibility to ICU care. That decreases any potential burden on the healthcare system by 30+%.

Unfortunately, the results did not show as "statistically significant" effect on mortality. Mortality decreased, but it was not statistically significant in this study.

Hopefully in a large study, they will find it to have a statistically significant impact on mortality too, albeit small. A small benefit still will save lives. And lives matter.

The biggest limit is that it as an intravenous drug, so has to be given in a hospital setting, that means it really only has an effect in the sickest of patients.

I would be hoping that I could get both this, and convalescent plasma.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 29, 2020, 05:24:24 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 29, 2020, 05:20:57 PM

This isn’t true.

You know what? You're right. If they were still growing "exponentially," I believe it would mean they were doubling or tripling or something. I certainly wasn't trying to be misleading.

How 'bout ...

And, sadly, U.S. death toll still growing substantially.

As you noted, COVID-19 deaths just hit 60K today, 5 days after hitting 50K, which was 5 days after hitting 40K, which was 3 days after hitting 30K, which was 5 days after hitting 20K, which was 5 days after hitting 10K.

I sure hope the Gilead drug works, because more and more states are getting ready to let up on social distancing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 29, 2020, 06:04:20 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 29, 2020, 05:24:24 PM

You know what? You're right. If they were still growing "exponentially," I believe it would mean they were doubling or tripling or something. I certainly wasn't trying to be misleading.

How 'bout ...

And, sadly, U.S. death toll still growing substantially.

I know you weren’t trying to mislead, but words have meaning, right?  Also we have done a good job of flattening the exponential curve.  If things were still growing exponentially, I for one would leave the house.

Your point is true though.  Growth in other areas have replaced the progress in NYC & Jersey....leaving us in a substantial health crisis.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 29, 2020, 06:10:35 PM

Quote from: tower912 on April 29, 2020, 05:03:00 PM

American deaths from COVID  > American deaths in Viet Nam.   

So we have that going for us.

Comparing Covid19 to other pandemics or epidemics is fair. Criticizing our response by those in charge at the federal, xtate and local authorities is fair.

With all due respect (and I mean it) comparing it to a needless war of choice is not.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 29, 2020, 06:16:37 PM

Keeping number of deaths in perspective.   We lost a generation of good young men in that needless war.   Many who made it back are still fighting it.   I thank them for their service.

More dead from this and there will be a large number with PTSD down the road.   I respect the heck out of you, Lenny, but the numbers are the numbers. 


  And lessons in leadership in times of crisis were lost in the heel spurs.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 29, 2020, 06:34:18 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 29, 2020, 06:10:35 PM

Comparing Covid19 to other pandemics or epidemics is fair. Criticizing our response by those in charge at the federal, xtate and local authorities is fair.

With all due respect (and I mean it) comparing it to a needless war of choice is not.

You’re right about comparing them, because it would be apples and oranges.

But I didn’t read it as a comparison of Vietnam vs COVID as much as simply noting that we had passed a very sad milestone.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 29, 2020, 07:37:32 PM

Since we really haven’t been early on any federally coordinated purchase to date, this doesn’t exactly make me feel warm and fuzzy.

 https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-buys-more-body-bags-preparing-for-worst-case-cornavirus-scenario-11588172780 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-buys-more-body-bags-preparing-for-worst-case-cornavirus-scenario-11588172780)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on April 29, 2020, 07:38:22 PM

Weird, at the start of Vietnam War 65% supported the govt in their intervention, which then eventually cratered.  Weird.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 29, 2020, 07:55:16 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 29, 2020, 07:37:32 PM

Since we really haven’t been early on any federally coordinated purchase to date, this doesn’t exactly make me feel warm and fuzzy.

 https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-buys-more-body-bags-preparing-for-worst-case-cornavirus-scenario-11588172780 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-buys-more-body-bags-preparing-for-worst-case-cornavirus-scenario-11588172780)

Wow. The first time we’re proactive on this, it’s to buy body bags for a worst case scenario?

The cynic in me says it’s a prelude to reopening the country way too quickly. I hope the cynic is wrong...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on April 29, 2020, 08:05:35 PM

Los Angeles offering free testing for all residents.

@MayorOfLA: Announcing that L.A. is now the first major city in America to offer free COVID-19 testing to all residents. While priority will still be given to those with symptoms, individuals without symptoms can also be tested. Sign up at http://Coronavirus.LACity.org/Testing. https://twitter.com/MayorOfLA/status/1255655435333300225/photo/1

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on April 29, 2020, 09:35:04 PM

Quote from: reinko on April 29, 2020, 07:38:22 PM

Weird, at the start of Vietnam War 65% supported the govt in their intervention, which then eventually cratered.  Weird.

i think I might have bone spurs. or maybe anal warts. If i get a doctor's note verifying same, would that get me out of the pandemic?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 29, 2020, 10:18:14 PM

https://www.foxnews.com/media/dr-makary-us-china-coronavirus-vaccine-race

I fear Trump really views this as a competitive race, where we have to beat China. Instead of a global goal to work together to get a vaccine and treatment. We refused to join the rest of the world on joint projects.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/us-stays-away-as-world-leaders-agree-action-on-covid-19-vaccine

My fear, is he forces shortcuts, that end up leading to a less effective, or dangerous vaccine for pride sake.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 29, 2020, 10:24:08 PM

Quote from: forgetful on April 29, 2020, 10:18:14 PM

https://www.foxnews.com/media/dr-makary-us-china-coronavirus-vaccine-race

I fear Trump really views this as a competitive race, where we have to beat China. Instead of a global goal to work together to get a vaccine and treatment. We refused to join the rest of the world on joint projects.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/us-stays-away-as-world-leaders-agree-action-on-covid-19-vaccine

My fear, is he forces shortcuts, that end up leading to a less effective, or dangerous vaccine for pride sake.

Today, he was waxing poetic about being able to hold rallies again, with "25,000 screaming people." Attaboy. Always thinking about others.

But really, of course he's waxing poetic about those rallies. Everybody likes feeling loved, and he NEEDS it more than he needs air, water and a big bucket of Extra Crispy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 29, 2020, 11:48:47 PM

Thursday, April 30 is National Honesty Day.

Let’s hope for some leadership by example.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 30, 2020, 07:38:22 AM

Quote from: forgetful on April 29, 2020, 05:23:04 PM

The Gilead drug had a statistically significant effect on recovery duration. Which is great, because one of the limiting factors in survival may be accessibility to ICU care. That decreases any potential burden on the healthcare system by 30+%.

Unfortunately, the results did not show as "statistically significant" effect on mortality. Mortality decreased, but it was not statistically significant in this study.

Hopefully in a large study, they will find it to have a statistically significant impact on mortality too, albeit small. A small benefit still will save lives. And lives matter.

The biggest limit is that it as an intravenous drug, so has to be given in a hospital setting, that means it really only has an effect in the sickest of patients.

I would be hoping that I could get both this, and convalescent plasma.

Agree, to me it doesn't appear that the results match the headlines. I mean, shorter sickness time for those that are going to recover is good, but maybe only nudging mortality? I don't think the initial results are what people are thinking they are.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 30, 2020, 08:49:59 AM

Perspective on GA decision to reopen, from an Infectious Diseases specialist in Atlanta:

Georgia Went First. And It Screwed Up.
Here’s what other states can learn from our inept reopening.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/30/opinion/georgia-coronavirus-reopening.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

Don’t underestimate the importance of good data.
Despite all the warnings in the news media, it can be tempting to cherry-pick evidence that supports a move to reopen. Governor Kemp said his decision was based on “favorable data” and enhanced testing, but the more we looked, the more questionable that data looked: fluctuations among data curves, some of which conflicted with each other; weeklong lags in Georgia’s reporting of Covid-19 cases and deaths.
.....

Don’t punish small businesses by treating their decision to reopen — or not — as a purity test.
Somehow, we’ve reached the point where caring about public health has become a progressive issue, while the nation’s economy has become a conservative one. This division is false; no one should have to choose between financial annihilation and helping to spread a deadly disease. But thanks to unforgivable failures of political leadership, business owners in Georgia are bearing the burden of that choice — and the same will happen in every state that follows our lead.
.....

We have dangerous tensions between our state and local governments.
The governor’s decision came as a surprise to our mayors, who were not consulted or informed about his executive order in advance — and were barred by one of its clauses from issuing local orders more or less restrictive than his.


There has been plenty of discussion about decisions being made in the absence of good data, and the tension between state and local officials.

But she also does a nice job or illustrating a real-life example of the growing perspective that we should have to choose between public health (a 'liberal' viewpoint) and the economy (a 'conservative' viewpoint). To me, the 'purity test' she describes highlights why we need to address the other two issues (1- making consistent, data-driven decisions; and 2 - good coordination between different levels of government) to avoid a haphazard, ineffective reopening process.

And for those advocating reopening the economy without more of a data-driven consensus, I ask a question - will it really help your businesses or your job security if we reopen the economy and the customers don't show up?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 30, 2020, 01:07:44 PM

Quote from: tower912 on April 29, 2020, 05:03:00 PM

American deaths from COVID  > American deaths in Viet Nam.   

So we have that going for us.

What’s the connection?
Trump didn’t help in either one.

Thank you, jimmy Kimmel.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 30, 2020, 01:42:22 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 30, 2020, 01:07:44 PM

What’s the connection?
Trump didn’t help in either one.

Thank you, jimmy Kimmel.

Stephen Colbert used the line last night, "And just like in the Vietnam War, Donald Trump is AWOL."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HansMoleman on April 30, 2020, 01:46:50 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 30, 2020, 01:07:44 PM

What’s the connection?
Trump didn’t help in either one.

Thank you, jimmy Kimmel.

Just so I'm clear, you don't like President Trump, correct?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 30, 2020, 03:34:54 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 29, 2020, 09:26:54 AM

The Vice Hypocrite is getting ripped a new one everywhere -- even on Fox News.

He claimed he wanted to look at health-care workers "in the eye."  Well, if you're not an imbecile, you've put your mask on in a way that you can see. Just ask every surgeon in the world how they somehow are able to see as they fix people's brains, hearts and everything else while wearing masks.

Not following hospital policy when you are supposed to be setting an example for the entire country is disturbing, selfish and just plain inconsiderate.

Karen Pence, today: "It was actually after he left Mayo Clinic that he found out that they had a policy of asking everyone to wear a mask.


There are six things that the LORD strongly dislikes, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.

— Proverbs 6:16–19

Looks like Karen forgot about the Christian-y thing today.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 30, 2020, 03:43:00 PM

Damn, that is almost a clean sweep.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 30, 2020, 03:56:11 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 30, 2020, 03:34:54 PM

Karen Pence, today: "It was actually after he left Mayo Clinic that he found out that they had a policy of asking everyone to wear a mask.


There are six things that the LORD strongly dislikes, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.

— Proverbs 6:16–19

Looks like Karen forgot about the Christian-y thing today.

Yep.

He was told before he arrived...then he passed a sign at the entrance stating that masks are required for everyone in the buildings (I HAVE WALKED PAST THESE SIGNS - THEY ARE EVERYWHERE)...then he saw all Mayo staff, patients and visitors wearing them...then he was offered one, and he still refused. The claim that he didn’t know is simply an ‘alternative fact.’

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on April 30, 2020, 04:23:26 PM

This is nuts:

https://www.complex.com/life/2020/04/georgia-drops-driving-test-requirement-for-license-due-to-pandemic

Georgia is letting teens drive without a driver's test. 

These kids have been waiting 16 years for a driver's test.  They can wait a little longer.  That's crazy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 30, 2020, 04:34:35 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 30, 2020, 04:23:26 PM

This is nuts:

https://www.complex.com/life/2020/04/georgia-drops-driving-test-requirement-for-license-due-to-pandemic

Georgia is letting teens drive without a driver's test. 

These kids have been waiting 16 years for a driver's test.  They can wait a little longer.  That's crazy.

Wow - GA is conducting its own little Darwin demo right before our eyes.

On the plus side...if people weren’t afraid to go out before, they certainly should be now....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 30, 2020, 04:56:25 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 30, 2020, 03:56:11 PM

Yep.

He was told before he arrived...then he passed a sign at the entrance stating that masks are required for everyone in the buildings (I HAVE WALKED PAST THESE SIGNS - THEY ARE EVERYWHERE)...then he saw all Mayo staff, patients and visitors wearing them...then he was offered one, and he still refused. The claim that he didn’t know is simply an ‘alternative fact.’

Yesterday's Lie Doubleheader was that he didn't think he needed a mask because he has been tested often and because he wanted to look the health-care workers in the eyes. Today's lie, brought to us by Mrs. Vice Hypocrite, is, "How could my hubby possibly have known; nobody told him."

We used to be able to say: "I don't agree with Pence's politics, but at least he seems like a decent, honorable man."

A few years as apprentice to the Master of Lies ... and now he's even lying about hospital masks. And his wife is even joining in on the fun.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 30, 2020, 05:52:57 PM

Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan said he’s been forced to resort to drastic measures to protect nearly 500,000 COVID-19 test kits from the federal government.

The state bought the test kits from South Korea earlier this month, and the state’s National Guard is guarding them in a secret location to prevent them from being commandeered by the Trump administration.

On Thursday, Hogan, a Republican, told The Washington Post about the careful steps he’s taking to ensure the tests remain in Maryland.

For instance, he had the plane from South Korea land at Baltimore/Washington International Thurgood Marshall Airport instead of Washington’s Dulles International Airport to reduce the chance that the feds would seize the COVID-19 cargo.

In addition, the plane was greeted by what Hogan described as “a large contingent of Maryland National Guard and Maryland State Police.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 30, 2020, 06:19:18 PM

Just another example of the difficulty in worker safety in an essential industry. 

 https://thehill.com/homenews/news/495564-nearly-900-workers-at-tyson-meat-plant-in-indiana-test-positive-for-coronavirus (https://thehill.com/homenews/news/495564-nearly-900-workers-at-tyson-meat-plant-in-indiana-test-positive-for-coronavirus)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 30, 2020, 07:04:19 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 30, 2020, 06:19:18 PM

Just another example of the difficulty in worker safety in an essential industry. 

 https://thehill.com/homenews/news/495564-nearly-900-workers-at-tyson-meat-plant-in-indiana-test-positive-for-coronavirus (https://thehill.com/homenews/news/495564-nearly-900-workers-at-tyson-meat-plant-in-indiana-test-positive-for-coronavirus)

Tough crap! Get back to work! I need my McNuggets!!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 30, 2020, 09:17:13 PM

I've said a couple of times that because of the patchwork way the U.S. has handled lock downs and the variations in how closely people adhered to the recommendations that it seemed to me that we were likely to have a long, rolling wave rather than a distinct end to the first wave. This thread talks about that in terms of the data we are seeing

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1255976675252158465.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on May 01, 2020, 09:33:20 AM

This is such a cool chart:

https://www.apple.com/covid19/mobility

Search for your city .. you can see, over time, walking/driving/transit trends.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 01, 2020, 09:56:24 AM

That is really cool.  Also supports my anecdotal observation about more people venturing out in my area (including me).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 01, 2020, 10:39:34 AM

The Capitol’s attending physician said Thursday that coronavirus tests will be available for staffers and senators who are ill, but not enough to proactively test all 100 senators as the chamber comes back in session.


“Anyone who wants a test can get one”.   ;D ;D

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 01, 2020, 12:07:36 PM

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/comparing-covid-19-deaths-to-flu-deaths-is-like-comparing-apples-to-oranges/

Really great article highlighting why this is not just a bad flu.

Goes through the fact that flu-deaths are grossly over-reported, due to outdated alogrithms/testing with the goal of encouraging vaccination. Part of it dating back to days we did not have good ways to rapidly test for flu, we do now.

Shows that if you compare the flu and COVID using the same methods of testing, than COVID is between 7.5-44x more deadly than the worst of the flus.

I've talked with a lot of ER docs, who find this disease to be the most frightening thing they have experienced.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on May 01, 2020, 01:09:48 PM

Study from Japan surrounding infection rate and anitbody rate.  Preseented without commentary.  Just found it interesting

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.26.20079822v1.full.pdf

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 01, 2020, 01:47:51 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on May 01, 2020, 01:09:48 PM

Study from Japan surrounding infection rate and anitbody rate.  Preseented without commentary.  Just found it interesting

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.26.20079822v1.full.pdf

I think 3% infection rate is pretty good broadly. 

The interesting thing is if you take deaths and assume that represents 1% of the total cases....or assume that the testing has only captured 1/10th of actual cases...those both have been good indicators of overall infection when serology tests have gone in after the fact.  Worked in some europe studies, NY, and some others I have seen.

The only one I have seen that was much higher was Santa Clara, which, if I remember right, was 50-80X confirmed cases.  However the percent of population was still only 7% (again off recollection -- this could be wrong).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 01, 2020, 02:17:04 PM

Quote from: forgetful on May 01, 2020, 12:07:36 PM

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/comparing-covid-19-deaths-to-flu-deaths-is-like-comparing-apples-to-oranges/

Really great article highlighting why this is not just a bad flu.

Goes through the fact that flu-deaths are grossly over-reported, due to outdated alogrithms/testing with the goal of encouraging vaccination. Part of it dating back to days we did not have good ways to rapidly test for flu, we do now.

Shows that if you compare the flu and COVID using the same methods of testing, than COVID is between 7.5-44x more deadly than the worst of the flus.

I've talked with a lot of ER docs, who find this disease to be the most frightening thing they have experienced.

Very interesting. Thanks for posting.

By now, everybody with at least half a brain realizes this is significantly worse than "a bad flu."

Unfortunately, a lot of Americans, including many of our leaders, apparently have 49% of a brain or less.

More Americans died in April alone than in most entire years of seasonal flus. And yes, as you pointed out, flu deaths are largely overcounted while most infectious disease experts believe this pandemic has been considerably undercounted.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on May 01, 2020, 03:32:01 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on May 01, 2020, 09:33:20 AM

This is such a cool chart:

https://www.apple.com/covid19/mobility

Search for your city .. you can see, over time, walking/driving/transit trends.

I am not sure the folks who use Apple Maps necessarily represent society as a whole.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 01, 2020, 03:44:47 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on May 01, 2020, 03:32:01 PM

I am not sure the folks who use Apple Maps necessarily represent society as a whole.

Yep - they don't even represent iPhone users as a whole. I have always used iPhones, but the first thing I install is the Google Maps app because Apple Maps are really bad. Same with nearly every iPhone user I know.

Maybe it's a representative sample of: (1) Apple employees; and (2) iPhone users who don't realize they can use Google Maps on their iPhones.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 01, 2020, 04:22:25 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 01, 2020, 03:44:47 PM

Yep - they don't even represent iPhone users as a whole. I have always used iPhones, but the first thing I install is the Google Maps app because Apple Maps are really bad. Same with nearly every iPhone user I know.

Maybe it's a representative sample of: (1) Apple employees; and (2) iPhone users who don't realize they can use Google Maps on their iPhones.

And 3 - iphone users who don't specifically adjust their location data on apple maps

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 01, 2020, 04:22:56 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 01, 2020, 03:44:47 PM

Yep - they don't even represent iPhone users as a whole. I have always used iPhones, but the first thing I install is the Google Maps app because Apple Maps are really bad. Same with nearly every iPhone user I know.

Maybe it's a representative sample of: (1) Apple employees; and (2) iPhone users who don't realize they can use Google Maps on their iPhones.

The Maps app on the iPhone was bad like 8 years ago.  Now the only navigation app for driving worth adding if you aren't using Maps is Waze.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 01, 2020, 05:20:03 PM

Quote from: wadesworld on May 01, 2020, 04:22:56 PM

The Maps app on the iPhone was bad like 8 years ago.  Now the only navigation app for driving worth adding if you aren't using Maps is Waze.

Waze and google maps use the same database/program/software.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 01, 2020, 05:25:46 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 01, 2020, 05:20:03 PM

Waze and google maps use the same database/program/software.

Yeah, they share the same basic program, with tweaks specific to each app. I have read that the Waze app can reroute faster, but that it has more bugs and isn’t as efficient in locating GPS locations. Probably YMMV, so I stuck with Google Maps out of familiarity.

But either way, both >> Apple Maps

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on May 01, 2020, 05:34:33 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on May 01, 2020, 03:32:01 PM

I am not sure the folks who use Apple Maps necessarily represent society as a whole.

Possible math:

When Gallup does a national poll, they get 1,000 responses for a MOE of 4 points.

Apple Maps has 23m monthly users, so 766k data points (per day) for each of their graphing chart points .. with a sample size of that magnitude, the MOE is pretty tiny, regardless of the self-selected "Apple Maps" category of human.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 01, 2020, 06:52:00 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on May 01, 2020, 05:34:33 PM

Possible math:

When Gallup does a national poll, they get 1,000 responses for a MOE of 4 points.

Apple Maps has 23m monthly users, so 766k data points (per day) for each of their graphing chart points .. with a sample size of that magnitude, the MOE is pretty tiny, regardless of the self-selected "Apple Maps" category of human.

MOE is very tiny, but the “polling group” is limited in scope.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 01, 2020, 06:53:44 PM

Dr. Fauci will not be allowed to testify before a House Coronavirus Task Force panel next week. White House is blocking it.

Sound familiar?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 01, 2020, 07:30:56 PM

Quote from: Jockey on May 01, 2020, 06:53:44 PM

Dr. Fauci will not be allowed to testify before a House Coronavirus Task Force panel next week. White House is blocking it.

Sound familiar?

That is seriously weird. Others who have not been allowed to testify over these past few years haven't been trotted out in front of the public several times a week. Fauci has been allowed to "testify" to tens of millions of people repeatedly. I wonder what President Pandemic is afraid of here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 01, 2020, 07:39:39 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 01, 2020, 07:30:56 PM

That is seriously weird. Others who have not been allowed to testify over these past few years haven't been trotted out in front of the public several times a week. Fauci has been allowed to "testify" to tens of millions of people repeatedly. I wonder what President Pandemic is afraid of here.

Obviously he doesn't want to look like an idiot.  What is the point of Fauci's testimony?  It's political theater and it would probably lead to Fauci getting axed.

So what is there to gain?   Make Trump seem stupid?  I think he can handle that just fine on his own.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 01, 2020, 08:16:05 PM

U of Minnesota report projects that the virus could be with us for another 18 months to 2 years.

https://twin-cities.umn.edu/news-events/new-report-cidrap-university-minnesota-outlines-covid-19-realities-advises-next-steps

Their Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy is very well respected. I hope they are wrong, but....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 01, 2020, 08:31:53 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 01, 2020, 07:30:56 PM

That is seriously weird. Others who have not been allowed to testify over these past few years haven't been trotted out in front of the public several times a week. Fauci has been allowed to "testify" to tens of millions of people repeatedly. I wonder what President Pandemic is afraid of here.

Honestly, it's probably for the better. If people Ike Fauci are going to be believed and have their recommendations followed by a large portion of the populace, they need to be kept entirely separate from the political fray.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 01, 2020, 08:33:20 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 01, 2020, 08:16:05 PM

U of Minnesota report projects that the virus could be with us for another 18 months to 2 years.

https://twin-cities.umn.edu/news-events/new-report-cidrap-university-minnesota-outlines-covid-19-realities-advises-next-steps

Their Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy is very well respected. I hope they are wrong, but....

CNN had a similar story weeks ago and some members here jumped on me for sharing it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 01, 2020, 08:45:17 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 01, 2020, 08:33:20 PM

CNN had a similar story weeks ago and some members here jumped on me for sharing it.

Weird, Cheeks loved to let everyone know he was a victim all the time too.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 01, 2020, 10:07:39 PM

Quote from: wadesworld on May 01, 2020, 08:45:17 PM

Weird, Cheeks loved to let everyone know he was a victim all the time too.

Rent free.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 01, 2020, 10:18:16 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 01, 2020, 07:39:39 PM

Obviously he doesn't want to look like an idiot.  What is the point of Fauci's testimony?  It's political theater and it would probably lead to Fauci getting axed.

So what is there to gain?   Make Trump seem stupid?  I think he can handle that just fine on his own.

Dr Fauci will testify before the Senate Committee on Health on May 12th.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 01, 2020, 10:40:01 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 01, 2020, 10:07:39 PM

Rent free.

Aww sorry, did I force you to post against your will again?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 01, 2020, 10:45:18 PM

Quote from: wadesworld on May 01, 2020, 10:40:01 PM

Aww sorry, did I force you to post against your will again?

 :o :o :o

You guys see chicoses behind every tree. Not me.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on May 01, 2020, 10:53:40 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 01, 2020, 08:16:05 PM

U of Minnesota report projects that the virus could be with us for another 18 months to 2 years.

https://twin-cities.umn.edu/news-events/new-report-cidrap-university-minnesota-outlines-covid-19-realities-advises-next-steps

Their Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy is very well respected. I hope they are wrong, but....

I struggle to see the benefit in this sort of study. It’s not proposing or sharing anything new or groundbreaking, just an bleak absolute worst case scenario. There’s a big difference between “we shouldn’t open tomorrow cause there are still big risks” and implying the end of life as we know it till 2022 laying out a scenario that will shatter many and sow nothing but seeds of despondency and despair.

We’ve had plenty of calls for caution and wariness of this not ending as soon as we’d like, so it’s not some bold stance there. They may be quite respected, but this smacks of wanting to one up and be on the record with the most grave doomsday projection, like the other infectious disease expert from UPenn I believe

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 01, 2020, 11:00:57 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 01, 2020, 10:45:18 PM

:o :o :o

You guys see chicoses behind every tree. Not me.

If you don't see him behind the WarriorDad tree, then I seriously overestimated your intelligence.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 01, 2020, 11:06:19 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on May 01, 2020, 10:53:40 PM

I struggle to see the benefit in this sort of study. It’s not proposing or sharing anything new or groundbreaking, just an bleak absolute worst case scenario. There’s a big difference between “we shouldn’t open tomorrow cause there are still big risks” and implying the end of life as we know it till 2022 laying out a scenario that will shatter many and sow nothing but seeds of despondency and despair.

We’ve had plenty of calls for caution and wariness of this not ending as soon as we’d like, so it’s not some bold stance there. They may be quite respected, but this smacks of wanting to one up and be on the record with the most grave doomsday projection, like the other infectious disease expert from UPenn I believe

Some people want to know what may be on the horizon, so they can plan and prepare accordingly.

Some in times of difficulty, only want to hear good stories to make them feel better, and so they can pretend nothing is going on. Some like to prepare.

Everyone deals with these stressful circumstances differently, there are a lot of people that want to see this and need to know what these experts think.

There is value in every angle.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 01, 2020, 11:07:47 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 01, 2020, 07:39:39 PM

Obviously he doesn't want to look like an idiot.  What is the point of Fauci's testimony?  It's political theater and it would probably lead to Fauci getting axed.

So what is there to gain?   Make Trump seem stupid?  I think he can handle that just fine on his own.

This makes sense, Hards, as does the following from Pakuni

Quote from: Pakuni on May 01, 2020, 08:31:53 PM

Honestly, it's probably for the better. If people Ike Fauci are going to be believed and have their recommendations followed by a large portion of the populace, they need to be kept entirely separate from the political fray.

But then there's this ...

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 01, 2020, 10:18:16 PM

Dr Fauci will testify before the Senate Committee on Health on May 12th.

So ... what could possibly be the difference between the political make-up of the Senate and that of the House? Hmmm.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 01, 2020, 11:43:40 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on May 01, 2020, 10:53:40 PM

I struggle to see the benefit in this sort of study. It’s not proposing or sharing anything new or groundbreaking, just an bleak absolute worst case scenario. There’s a big difference between “we shouldn’t open tomorrow cause there are still big risks” and implying the end of life as we know it till 2022 laying out a scenario that will shatter many and sow nothing but seeds of despondency and despair.

We’ve had plenty of calls for caution and wariness of this not ending as soon as we’d like, so it’s not some bold stance there. They may be quite respected, but this smacks of wanting to one up and be on the record with the most grave doomsday projection, like the other infectious disease expert from UPenn I believe

The more experts we have giving their perspectives, the better prepared the governors can be to respond to different contingencies as they evolve. And in turn, the better prepared we can be as citizens to adjust to these shifting realities. The alternative is to ignore studies we don’t like.

You can close your eyes if you prefer, but I’ll keep mine open.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Keithtisbarf on May 02, 2020, 12:26:45 AM

Did cheeks succumb to covid? He/she has been mia.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 02, 2020, 12:32:10 AM

Quote from: Keithtisbarf on May 02, 2020, 12:26:45 AM

Did cheeks succumb to covid? He/she has been mia.

No he hasn’t.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 02, 2020, 12:54:39 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 01, 2020, 11:00:57 PM

If you don't see him behind the WarriorDad tree, then I seriously overestimated your intelligence.

WD, yes.
Others, no.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 02, 2020, 06:55:21 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on May 01, 2020, 10:53:40 PM

I struggle to see the benefit in this sort of study. It’s not proposing or sharing anything new or groundbreaking, just an bleak absolute worst case scenario. There’s a big difference between “we shouldn’t open tomorrow cause there are still big risks” and implying the end of life as we know it till 2022 laying out a scenario that will shatter many and sow nothing but seeds of despondency and despair.

We’ve had plenty of calls for caution and wariness of this not ending as soon as we’d like, so it’s not some bold stance there. They may be quite respected, but this smacks of wanting to one up and be on the record with the most grave doomsday projection, like the other infectious disease expert from UPenn I believe

This type of report is literally what this group was created to do.

"About the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy
The Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy is a global leader in addressing public health preparedness and emerging infectious disease response. Founded in 2001, CIDRAP is part of the Office of the Vice President for Research at the University of Minnesota."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 02, 2020, 08:22:55 AM

Quote from: Keithtisbarf on May 02, 2020, 12:26:45 AM

Did cheeks succumb to covid? He/she has been mia.

If only (the mia part, that is)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 02, 2020, 08:36:47 AM

He said he was going to have surgery and be MIA for a while.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 02, 2020, 10:09:13 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 02, 2020, 12:54:39 AM

WD, yes.
Others, no.

Oh, I agree, I've never thought he was anyone else.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 02, 2020, 10:27:16 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 02, 2020, 12:54:39 AM

WD, yes.
Others, no.

So...rent free then, aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on May 02, 2020, 10:34:36 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 01, 2020, 11:43:40 PM

The more experts we have giving their perspectives, the better prepared the governors can be to respond to different contingencies as they evolve. And in turn, the better prepared we can be as citizens to adjust to these shifting realities. The alternative is to ignore studies we don’t like.

You can close your eyes if you prefer, but I’ll keep mine open.

Yes, that’s exactly what I said  ::) I’ve been respectful regardless of who I agree with, no need to be an arrogant tool. FFS

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on May 02, 2020, 11:58:58 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on May 01, 2020, 10:53:40 PM

I struggle to see the benefit in this sort of study. It’s not proposing or sharing anything new or groundbreaking, just an bleak absolute worst case scenario. There’s a big difference between “we shouldn’t open tomorrow cause there are still big risks” and implying the end of life as we know it till 2022 laying out a scenario that will shatter many and sow nothing but seeds of despondency and despair.

We’ve had plenty of calls for caution and wariness of this not ending as soon as we’d like, so it’s not some bold stance there. They may be quite respected, but this smacks of wanting to one up and be on the record with the most grave doomsday projection, like the other infectious disease expert from UPenn I believe

I agree we have known it will be around for the next 18-24 months.  Tell me how my Junior in HS will have a senior year of football, basketball and golf.  What can we do to live outside of our homes with this going around that would be helpful to all.  The only thing this does is create more panic and more division which we do not need at this point

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 02, 2020, 01:23:18 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on May 02, 2020, 10:34:36 AM

Yes, that’s exactly what I said  ::) I’ve been respectful regardless of who I agree with, no need to be an arrogant tool. FFS

You did not say that in the post I was responding to. You actually began with the statement that "[you] struggle to see the benefit in this sort of study" so my post explained that it was important because it gave us another reputable data point. And by the way, researchers don't know what the result will be when they begin a project...so it does yield a scientific benefit to see if multiple studies show the same results. Because science....

And is calling me an 'arrogant tool' your way of being respectful?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on May 02, 2020, 01:43:26 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 02, 2020, 01:23:18 PM

You did not say that in the post I was responding to. You actually began with the statement that "[you] struggle to see the benefit in this sort of study" so my post explained that it was important because it gave us another reputable data point. And by the way, researchers don't know what the result will be when they begin a project...so it does yield a scientific benefit to see if multiple studies show the same results. Because science....

And is calling me an 'arrogant tool' your way of being respectful?

I was respectful until you implied i was close minded or purposefully ignorant to things outside my viewpoint in that passive aggressive endIng. There were plenty of ways to share the idea that you like to take in all the data points or studies you can without coming off the way you did, but you knew exactly what you were doing.

Maybe I should have phrased it about sharing the results the way they did versus the study itself.  I understand how science works. I understand how studies work. I also understand the impact that they can have on public sentiment depending on how they are handled. But thanks for patting me on my clearly naive head.

But that doesn’t change my previous point. But I guess I shouldn’t be surprised given the way things go around here lately.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 02, 2020, 02:00:43 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on May 02, 2020, 01:43:26 PM

I was respectful until you implied i was close minded or purposefully ignorant to things outside my viewpoint in that passive aggressive endIng. There were plenty of ways to share the idea that you like to take in all the data points or studies you can without coming off the way you did, but you knew exactly what you were doing.

Maybe I should have phrased it about sharing the results the way they did versus the study itself.  I understand how science works. I understand how studies work. I also understand the impact that they can have on public sentiment depending on how they are handled. But thanks for patting me on my clearly naive head.

But that doesn’t change my previous point. But I guess I shouldn’t be surprised given the way things go around here lately.

If you understand how science works and truly want to see both good and bad results, why the criticism when I shared the study? No, it wasn't new or groundbreaking, but it was another data point on a very important issue. That alone should have answered your question about why I posted it.

I get that you're stressed and maybe that got the better of you, but whatever.

Anyhow, peace.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 02, 2020, 02:11:16 PM

nm

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 02, 2020, 02:13:34 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 02, 2020, 02:11:16 PM

nm

Wrong thread.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 02, 2020, 02:36:45 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 02, 2020, 02:13:34 PM

Wrong thread.

I musta gotten catatonic due to lack of Arby's.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 02, 2020, 03:09:40 PM

Florida state officials have blocked medical examiners from releasing coronavirus death totals after it was found the examiners’ death count was 10% higher than the state said it was.

The list of deaths, which had been released in real time by the state’s Medical Examiners Commission, is no longer being published, after the Florida Department of Health intervened, the Tampa Bay Times reported. The vital data, which includes demographic information and probable cause of death, has now been withheld for the last 11 days.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 02, 2020, 03:12:31 PM

Trump got rid of another career official in the Department of Health and Human Services last night. Her crime? Highlighting critical medical shortages in her report of April 6, as well as inadequate testing for the coronavirus. Since such facts aren't allowed within this criminal enterprise known as the Trump administration, her days were numbered as soon as Trump was made aware of the report. Christi A. Grimm has been in government since the Clinton administration.


For all of you pessimists out there, things will get better. Sadly, it won’t be until next year when we have new leadership.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 02, 2020, 04:28:50 PM

Quote from: Jockey on May 02, 2020, 03:09:40 PM

Florida state officials have blocked medical examiners from releasing coronavirus death totals after it was found the examiners’ death count was 10% higher than the state said it was.

The list of deaths, which had been released in real time by the state’s Medical Examiners Commission, is no longer being published, after the Florida Department of Health intervened, the Tampa Bay Times reported. The vital data, which includes demographic information and probable cause of death, has now been withheld for the last 11 days.

Yeah, I've thought for some time Florida's numbers looked unrealistic. Between an older population and the extremely slow social distancing measures which seemed to be frequently ignored, it seemed the numbers were way too low.

DeSantis, Kemp, and Noem are vying for title of Worst Governor of the U.S.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 02, 2020, 04:42:06 PM

Quote from: Jockey on May 02, 2020, 03:09:40 PM

Florida state officials have blocked medical examiners from releasing coronavirus death totals after it was found the examiners’ death count was 10% higher than the state said it was.

The list of deaths, which had been released in real time by the state’s Medical Examiners Commission, is no longer being published, after the Florida Department of Health intervened, the Tampa Bay Times reported. The vital data, which includes demographic information and probable cause of death, has now been withheld for the last 11 days.

What a hot mess Florida is under this inept governor.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 02, 2020, 04:42:37 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on May 02, 2020, 04:28:50 PM

Yeah, I've thought for some time Florida's numbers looked unrealistic. Between an older population and the extremely slow social distancing measures which seemed to be frequently ignored, it seemed the numbers were way too low.

DeSantis, Kemp, and Noem are vying for title of Worst Governor of the U.S.

Borghum (ND) and Reynolds (IA) are in the running as well. Neither has ever issued a stay at home order, despite the fact that their numbers are growing rapidly. I recently saw a list of the emerging hotspots, and three of the top five are in Iowa (Sioux City, Waterloo and Des Moines). Fargo is also high on the list. And yet it’s officially business as usual in both states....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 02, 2020, 04:45:36 PM

Here's a sentence I never thought I'd write:

Check out this article about the way this Texas strip club is doing business during a deadly global pandemic ...

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/nation-world/national/article242440221.html?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 02, 2020, 04:49:02 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 02, 2020, 04:45:36 PM

Here's a sentence I never thought I'd write:

Check out this article about the way this Texas strip club is doing business during a deadly global pandemic ...

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/nation-world/national/article242440221.html?

So people go to the strip club for the food? Who knew?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 02, 2020, 04:52:34 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 02, 2020, 04:49:02 PM

So people go to the strip club for the food? Who knew?

That can be tower's new excuse to go play golf.  "Hey, wife, at least I'm not getting lunch at the tiddie bar..."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 02, 2020, 05:05:46 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 02, 2020, 04:49:02 PM

So people go to the strip club for the food? Who knew?

As if you didn't try to claim that's why you went to Ricky's 3x a week!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 02, 2020, 05:08:13 PM

So, what did he think was gonna happen?

The governor of Mississippi took a step back with continuing to slowly reopen the state after health officials said there was the largest increase of coronavirus diagnosis and deaths.

Gov. Tate Reeves was to proceed with his plan to get people back to work, but announced the change of plans on Friday as 397 new coronavirus cases were confirmed and 20 more people died.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 02, 2020, 07:32:12 PM

We’re on the other side of the medical aspect of this and I think that we’ve achieved all the different milestones that are needed,” said Jared Kushner, in a Fox News interview this week, as the coronavirus death toll rose to nearly 60,000 Americans. “So the government federal government rose to the challenge, and this is a great success story and I think that that’s really what needs to be told.”


The lying continues.

Leaders need 3 things to be successful in a crisis. Honesty, empathy, and a plan (even if it is not a great one). Strike 1, strike 2, strike 3.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on May 02, 2020, 07:50:53 PM

Quote from: Jockey on May 02, 2020, 07:32:12 PM

We’re on the other side of the medical aspect of this and I think that we’ve achieved all the different milestones that are needed,” said Jared Kushner, in a Fox News interview this week, as the coronavirus death toll rose to nearly 60,000 Americans. “So the government federal government rose to the challenge, and this is a great success story and I think that that’s really what needs to be told.”


The lying continues.

Leaders need 3 things to be successful in a crisis. Honesty, empathy, and a plan (even if it is not a great one). Strike 1, strike 2, strike 3.

Closer to 70,000 U.S. deaths at the beginning of May this weekend. And what about the other 37,100 deaths?

https://twitter.com/owillis/status/1256680345480630274

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 02, 2020, 08:20:29 PM

Quote from: Jockey on May 02, 2020, 05:08:13 PM

So, what did he think was gonna happen?

The governor of Mississippi took a step back with continuing to slowly reopen the state after health officials said there was the largest increase of coronavirus diagnosis and deaths.

Gov. Tate Reeves was to proceed with his plan to get people back to work, but announced the change of plans on Friday as 397 new coronavirus cases were confirmed and 20 more people died.

Yep. The beginning of the second wave will be in states that never shut down (Iowa, the Dakotas, etc) and states that opened up too early. That’s the cold reality of dealing with something this widespread and contagious.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on May 02, 2020, 09:30:44 PM

Multiple studies show that people who have died from COVID-19 would have lived an average of at least another decade.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-kills-people-an-average-of-a-decade-before-their-time-11588424401?redirect=amp#click=https://t.co/GuFJxuENNN

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 02, 2020, 10:28:28 PM

The "oh, it's only old people who were about to die" faction is the 2020 version of Sarah Palin's "death panel."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 03, 2020, 08:13:13 AM

A new complication affecting healthcare workers in Russia...

THIRD Russian doctor plunges from Covid hospital window
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8282033/Third-Russian-doctor-plunges-coronavirus-hospital-window.html

*Alexander Shulepov had warned about PPE shortages in Voronezh city, Russia
*He is now fighting for his life after plunging from a second floor window
*Two senior doctors in Russia died recently after falling from hospital windows
*It came amid reports they challenged superiors over a lack of PPE for patients

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on May 03, 2020, 08:23:45 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on May 03, 2020, 08:13:13 AM

A new complication affecting healthcare workers in Russia...

THIRD Russian doctor plunges from Covid hospital window
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8282033/Third-Russian-doctor-plunges-coronavirus-hospital-window.html

*Alexander Shulepov had warned about PPE shortages in Voronezh city, Russia
*He is now fighting for his life after plunging from a second floor window
*Two senior doctors in Russia died recently after falling from hospital windows
*It came amid reports they challenged superiors over a lack of PPE for patients

Kinda surprised Russia is bothering with any treatment for normal citizens.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 03, 2020, 08:24:09 AM

I never thought we would see defenistration make a comeback, but here we are.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 03, 2020, 09:50:38 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 03, 2020, 08:24:09 AM

I never thought we would see defenistration make a comeback, but here we are.

I have to admit that I had to look up the definition of "defenistration."

Good word, Sultan. Nicely done.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on May 03, 2020, 10:02:28 AM

Quote from: MU82 on May 02, 2020, 04:45:36 PM

Here's a sentence I never thought I'd write:

Check out this article about the way this Texas strip club is doing business during a deadly global pandemic ...

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/nation-world/national/article242440221.html?

No lap dances is an outrage.

LIBERATE TEXAS!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 03, 2020, 10:48:16 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 03, 2020, 08:24:09 AM

I never thought we would see defenistration make a comeback, but here we are.

I too was thinking I wouldn't see defenestration make a comeback.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 03, 2020, 11:59:55 AM

Quote from: MU82 on May 03, 2020, 09:50:38 AM

I have to admit that I had to look up the definition of "defenistration."

Good word, Sultan. Nicely done.

The only reason I knew this word is because I had to look this up a few months ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defenestrations_of_Prague

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 03, 2020, 03:36:34 PM

Wife gave me a haircut today. Did a damn fine job too. I offered to cut hers but she said no.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 03, 2020, 04:10:26 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 03, 2020, 03:36:34 PM

Wife gave me a haircut today. Did a damn fine job too. I offered to cut hers but she said no.

So now you are a semi-Fluffy Blue Monster?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 03, 2020, 04:14:20 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 03, 2020, 04:10:26 PM

So now you are a semi-Fluffy Blue Monster?

I prefer “sleek”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBBau on May 03, 2020, 11:11:38 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 03, 2020, 09:50:38 AM

I have to admit that I had to look up the definition of "defenistration."

Good word, Sultan. Nicely done.

It’s a perfectly cromulent word

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on May 04, 2020, 01:49:22 AM

Every day I hope and pray the people in this country can’t get any dumber. And every day I’m wrong.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Chili on May 04, 2020, 06:39:48 AM

Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on May 04, 2020, 01:49:22 AM

Every day I hope and pray the people in this country can’t get any dumber. And every day I’m wrong.

“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.”

― George Carlin

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 04, 2020, 08:13:32 AM

George W. Bush released a nearly three-minute video on Saturday paying tribute to the medical workers who have led the response to the pandemic, and pointedly challenging Americans of all political persuasions to ditch partisan sniping in favor of solidarity.

“In the final analysis, we are not partisan combatants; we are human beings, equally vulnerable and equally wonderful in the sight of God,” he said. “We rise or fall together, and we are determined to rise.”

That seemingly tender message apparently rubbed Trump the wrong way: He complained on Twitter that Bush had been “nowhere to be found” during the president’s recent impeachment trial.

Because as usual, for President Pandemic it's always about me-me-me. Sad.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 04, 2020, 08:24:14 AM

Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on May 04, 2020, 01:49:22 AM

Every day I hope and pray the people in this country can’t get any dumber. And every day I’m wrong.

On behalf of your inferiors everywhere, thanks for your prayers that we be delivered from our stupidity. So thoughtful, so kind - just what we hope for from our superiors.

Apologies that despite your efforts we continue to disappoint you. It must make your life very difficult.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 04, 2020, 09:31:48 AM

Quote from: MU82 on May 04, 2020, 08:13:32 AM

George W. Bush released a nearly three-minute video on Saturday paying tribute to the medical workers who have led the response to the pandemic, and pointedly challenging Americans of all political persuasions to ditch partisan sniping in favor of solidarity.

“In the final analysis, we are not partisan combatants; we are human beings, equally vulnerable and equally wonderful in the sight of God,” he said. “We rise or fall together, and we are determined to rise.”

That seemingly tender message apparently rubbed Trump the wrong way: He complained on Twitter that Bush had been “nowhere to be found” during the president’s recent impeachment trial.

Because as usual, for President Pandemic it's always about me-me-me. Sad.

Bush throws Trump a softball - all Trump had to do was retweet and agree - but he is so blinded by his narcissism that he whiffs again. Why would any stable person openly criticize Bush's message?

Bush was far from a perfect president, but he knew how to unify in a crisis and I would trade Trump for him in a New York minute.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on May 04, 2020, 09:37:57 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 04, 2020, 09:31:48 AM

Bush throws Trump a softball - all Trump had to do was retweet and agree - but he is so blinded by his narcissism that he whiffs again. Why would any stable person openly criticize Bush's message?

Bush was far from a perfect president, but he knew how to unify in a crisis and I would trade him for Trump in a New York minute.

W's eulogy of his father was a very moving, human moment. He certainly can turn on the charm.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 04, 2020, 09:53:54 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 04, 2020, 09:31:48 AM

Bush was far from a perfect president, but he knew how to unify in a crisis and I would trade Trump for him in a New York minute.

And unlike rocket sturgeon who thinks Jared is better prepared than an ex-VP to lead the government's response, as much as I loath him I would trade Jared for Cheney in a heartbeat.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 04, 2020, 10:50:42 AM

Well this isn't good.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/04/us/coronavirus-updates.html

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/6926-mayhhsbriefing/af7319f4a55fd0ce5dc9/optimized/full.pdf#page=1

"As President Trump presses for states to reopen their economies, his administration is privately projecting a steady rise in the number of cases and deaths from coronavirus over the next several weeks, reaching about 3,000 daily deaths on June 1, according to an internal document obtained by The New York Times, nearly double from the current level of about 1,750.

The projections, based on modeling by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and pulled together in chart form by the Federal Emergency Management Agency, forecast about 200,000 new cases each day by the end of the month, up from about 25,000 cases now.

The numbers underscore a sobering reality: While the United States has been hunkered down for the past seven weeks, not much has changed. And the reopening to the economy will make matters worse.

“There remains a large number of counties whose burden continues to grow,” the C.D.C. warned.

The projections confirm the primary fear of public health experts: that a reopening of the economy will put the nation right back where it was in mid-March, when cases were rising so rapidly in some parts of the country that patients were dying on gurneys in hospital hallways with cases rising so rapidly that the health care system is overloaded.

“While mitigation didn’t fail, I think it’s fair to say that it didn’t work as well as we expected” Scott Gottlieb, Mr. Trump’s former commissioner of food and drugs, said Sunday on the CBS program Face the Nation. “We expected that we would start seeing more significant declines in new cases and deaths around the nation at this point. And we’re just not seeing that.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 04, 2020, 11:02:21 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 04, 2020, 10:50:42 AM

Well this isn't good.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/04/us/coronavirus-updates.html

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/6926-mayhhsbriefing/af7319f4a55fd0ce5dc9/optimized/full.pdf#page=1

"As President Trump presses for states to reopen their economies, his administration is privately projecting a steady rise in the number of cases and deaths from coronavirus over the next several weeks, reaching about 3,000 daily deaths on June 1, according to an internal document obtained by The New York Times, nearly double from the current level of about 1,750.

The projections, based on modeling by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and pulled together in chart form by the Federal Emergency Management Agency, forecast about 200,000 new cases each day by the end of the month, up from about 25,000 cases now.

The numbers underscore a sobering reality: While the United States has been hunkered down for the past seven weeks, not much has changed. And the reopening to the economy will make matters worse.

“There remains a large number of counties whose burden continues to grow,” the C.D.C. warned.

The projections confirm the primary fear of public health experts: that a reopening of the economy will put the nation right back where it was in mid-March, when cases were rising so rapidly in some parts of the country that patients were dying on gurneys in hospital hallways with cases rising so rapidly that the health care system is overloaded.

“While mitigation didn’t fail, I think it’s fair to say that it didn’t work as well as we expected” Scott Gottlieb, Mr. Trump’s former commissioner of food and drugs, said Sunday on the CBS program Face the Nation. “We expected that we would start seeing more significant declines in new cases and deaths around the nation at this point. And we’re just not seeing that.”

Yeah, I just saw this. Scary times.

We obviously have to re-open the economy eventually. This is brutal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on May 04, 2020, 11:04:05 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 04, 2020, 10:50:42 AM

Well this isn't good.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/04/us/coronavirus-updates.html

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/6926-mayhhsbriefing/af7319f4a55fd0ce5dc9/optimized/full.pdf#page=1

"As President Trump presses for states to reopen their economies, his administration is privately projecting a steady rise in the number of cases and deaths from coronavirus over the next several weeks, reaching about 3,000 daily deaths on June 1, according to an internal document obtained by The New York Times, nearly double from the current level of about 1,750.

The projections, based on modeling by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and pulled together in chart form by the Federal Emergency Management Agency, forecast about 200,000 new cases each day by the end of the month, up from about 25,000 cases now.

The numbers underscore a sobering reality: While the United States has been hunkered down for the past seven weeks, not much has changed. And the reopening to the economy will make matters worse.

“There remains a large number of counties whose burden continues to grow,” the C.D.C. warned.

The projections confirm the primary fear of public health experts: that a reopening of the economy will put the nation right back where it was in mid-March, when cases were rising so rapidly in some parts of the country that patients were dying on gurneys in hospital hallways with cases rising so rapidly that the health care system is overloaded.

“While mitigation didn’t fail, I think it’s fair to say that it didn’t work as well as we expected” Scott Gottlieb, Mr. Trump’s former commissioner of food and drugs, said Sunday on the CBS program Face the Nation. “We expected that we would start seeing more significant declines in new cases and deaths around the nation at this point. And we’re just not seeing that.”

Yikes. We did a good job of buying time, but we didn’t do enough with that time. I have a hard time seeing people going into “Safer at home” arrangements again. I think people are close to or at their end of staying at home mentally.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on May 04, 2020, 11:05:20 AM

Quote from: Skatastrophy on May 04, 2020, 09:37:57 AM

W's eulogy of his father was a very moving, human moment. He certainly can turn on the charm.

He doesn't have to turn it on, hes always been charming.  Politics and presidency aside, hes always been an enjoyable and charismatic person to be around.  Michelle Obama loves him, that speaks volumes.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on May 04, 2020, 11:09:39 AM

Quote from: cheebs09 on May 04, 2020, 11:04:05 AM

Yikes. We did a good job of buying time, but we didn’t do enough with that time. I have a hard time seeing people going into “Safer at home” arrangements again. I think people are close to or at their end of staying at home mentally.

Agree on both points, but the first one angers me so much.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 04, 2020, 11:15:36 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on May 04, 2020, 11:05:20 AM

He doesn't have to turn it on, hes always been charming.  Politics and presidency aside, hes always been an enjoyable and charismatic person to be around.  Michelle Obama loves him, that speaks volumes.

+1

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 04, 2020, 11:17:07 AM

Quote from: MU82 on May 04, 2020, 11:02:21 AM

Yeah, I just saw this. Scary times.

We obviously have to re-open the economy eventually. This is brutal.

Yeah there are no good alternatives for the next couple of months.  Even if the economy "opens up," how many people are going to feel comfortable with that?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 04, 2020, 11:39:59 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 04, 2020, 11:17:07 AM

Yeah there are no good alternatives for the next couple of months.  Even if the economy "opens up," how many people are going to feel comfortable with that?

It is gonna be interesting to see what transpires, that's for sure.

It's really difficult for me to imagine another major lockdown -- even if we end up actually having deadlier months than we just experienced in April, when a death toll the equivalent of 9/11 was happening every day or two.

I hope that, at the very least, the stay-at-home orders so far have made it more likely that hospitals will be able to treat everybody going forward. I also like to think that we as a nation have learned a lot about being ready for the supplies and other things needed to deal with a pandemic.

Trying to find some positives out of all of this, as difficult as it may be.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 04, 2020, 11:42:05 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on May 04, 2020, 11:05:20 AM

He doesn't have to turn it on, hes always been charming.  Politics and presidency aside, hes always been an enjoyable and charismatic person to be around.  Michelle Obama loves him, that speaks volumes.

It’s all Bud Selig’s fault.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 04, 2020, 11:43:25 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 04, 2020, 10:50:42 AM

Well this isn't good.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/04/us/coronavirus-updates.html

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/6926-mayhhsbriefing/af7319f4a55fd0ce5dc9/optimized/full.pdf#page=1

"As President Trump presses for states to reopen their economies, his administration is privately projecting a steady rise in the number of cases and deaths from coronavirus over the next several weeks, reaching about 3,000 daily deaths on June 1, according to an internal document obtained by The New York Times, nearly double from the current level of about 1,750.

The projections, based on modeling by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and pulled together in chart form by the Federal Emergency Management Agency, forecast about 200,000 new cases each day by the end of the month, up from about 25,000 cases now.

The numbers underscore a sobering reality: While the United States has been hunkered down for the past seven weeks, not much has changed. And the reopening to the economy will make matters worse.

“There remains a large number of counties whose burden continues to grow,” the C.D.C. warned.

The projections confirm the primary fear of public health experts: that a reopening of the economy will put the nation right back where it was in mid-March, when cases were rising so rapidly in some parts of the country that patients were dying on gurneys in hospital hallways with cases rising so rapidly that the health care system is overloaded.

“While mitigation didn’t fail, I think it’s fair to say that it didn’t work as well as we expected” Scott Gottlieb, Mr. Trump’s former commissioner of food and drugs, said Sunday on the CBS program Face the Nation. “We expected that we would start seeing more significant declines in new cases and deaths around the nation at this point. And we’re just not seeing that.”

LIBERATE!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 04, 2020, 11:44:03 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 04, 2020, 08:24:14 AM

On behalf of your inferiors everywhere, thanks for your prayers that we be delivered from our stupidity. So thoughtful, so kind - just what we hope for from our superiors.

Apologies that despite your efforts we continue to disappoint you. It must make your life very difficult.

You’ve gotten super-sensitive lately.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on May 04, 2020, 11:51:12 AM

Quote from: MU82 on May 04, 2020, 11:39:59 AM

It is gonna be interesting to see what transpires, that's for sure.

It's really difficult for me to imagine another major lockdown -- even if we end up actually having deadlier months than we just experienced in April, when a death toll the equivalent of 9/11 was happening every day or two.

I hope that, at the very least, the stay-at-home orders so far have made it more likely that hospitals will be able to treat everybody going forward. I also like to think that we as a nation have learned a lot about being ready for the supplies and other things needed to deal with a pandemic.

Trying to find some positives out of all of this, as difficult as it may be.

The one thing i keep thinking is we have increased testing which has had a big impact on the overall numbers.  The % of those infected has not really changed.  If we were still testing what we did a month ago we would be seeing a decline in the number of cases.

That said we are still not in great shape and not close to ready to open up. The best hope is we can open up with limitations and people act in a smart way

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 04, 2020, 11:55:39 AM

Quote from: Jockey on May 04, 2020, 11:44:03 AM

You’ve gotten super-sensitive lately.

Thanks, Jockey!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 04, 2020, 12:31:36 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on May 04, 2020, 11:05:20 AM

He doesn't have to turn it on, hes always been charming.  Politics and presidency aside, hes always been an enjoyable and charismatic person to be around.  Michelle Obama loves him, that speaks volumes.

Agreed, whether you like his politics or not, is one thing. But he is a genuinely enjoyable and kind individual.

Quote from: cheebs09 on May 04, 2020, 11:04:05 AM

Yikes. We did a good job of buying time, but we didn’t do enough with that time. I have a hard time seeing people going into “Safer at home” arrangements again. I think people are close to or at their end of staying at home mentally.

If these estimates turn out to be accurate, I can't help but think we handled this the worst way possible. Shut down and hurt the economy, but don't do enough to prepare for the next wave, and don't stay closed, or enforce religiously enough, to end the spread. Then just open back up and accept the dire consequences.

You have to pick one option or the other and commit to it, waffling back and forth is likely the worst situation.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on May 04, 2020, 12:38:56 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 04, 2020, 11:02:21 AM

Yeah, I just saw this. Scary times.

We obviously have to re-open the economy eventually. This is brutal.

It really is.  I think a lot of people don't understand that, "we think we can safely begin 'reopening' the economy" actually means, "we've got unused capacity in our ICUs".  The coming increase in cases is, sadly, "a feature, not a bug."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 04, 2020, 12:46:43 PM

Quote from: forgetful on May 04, 2020, 12:31:36 PM

If these estimates turn out to be accurate, I can't help but think we handled this the worst way possible. Shut down and hurt the economy, but don't do enough to prepare for the next wave, and don't stay closed, or enforce religiously enough, to end the spread. Then just open back up and accept the dire consequences.

Exactly.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 04, 2020, 01:02:28 PM

Quote from: forgetful on May 04, 2020, 12:31:36 PM

If these estimates turn out to be accurate, I can't help but think we handled this the worst way possible. Shut down and hurt the economy, but don't do enough to prepare for the next wave, and don't stay closed, or enforce religiously enough, to end the spread. Then just open back up and accept the dire consequences.

You have to pick one option or the other and commit to it, waffling back and forth is likely the worst situation.

Agreed. IMHO, the initial "lockdown" had way too many exceptions (liquor stores?!?), too many states that didn't participate or jumped on board too late, and too many that opened too soon. It should have been prompt, more complete, nationwide, and with opening after states or regions met the criteria for reopening set forth in the three phase plan.

No half measures....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 04, 2020, 01:04:18 PM

Quote from: forgetful on May 04, 2020, 12:31:36 PM

If these estimates turn out to be accurate, I can't help but think we handled this the worst way possible. Shut down and hurt the economy, but don't do enough to prepare for the next wave, and don't stay closed, or enforce religiously enough, to end the spread. Then just open back up and accept the dire consequences.

Yes, agree. I've said it multiple times, the half-assed hodge-podge inconsistent response leads me to believe there is only going to be a long rolling peak which will now be added to by a second wave. Absolutely incompetent leadership at the top.

The only hope is we find effective treatments and soon.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 04, 2020, 01:10:15 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 04, 2020, 01:02:28 PM

Agreed. IMHO, the initial "lockdown" had way too many exceptions (liquor stores?!?), too many states that didn't participate or jumped on board too late, and too many that opened too soon. It should have been prompt, more complete, nationwide, and with opening after states or regions met the criteria for reopening set forth in the three phase plan.

No half measures....

What's wrong with liquor stores? In some areas that liquor store is the primary grocery store. I feel like there's a lot of better things to get frustrated about than those

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on May 04, 2020, 01:10:25 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 04, 2020, 12:46:43 PM

Exactly.

Yes and no.  We'll have to wait and see.  When things closed down, the idea -- or at least the idea that was widely explained -- was that we wanted to slow the rate of infection so that the hospitals would not get overwhelmed.  In most areas, that happened.  While people obviously hoped for a vaccine or cure, I don't think anybody reasonably believed that would happen in the near future.  But cases slowed down so much that in many areas, hospitals were well below capacity.

But, I think that the dramatic actions were necessary at the time.  They slowed things down and provided a lot of information.  We learned that if we slow things down to the extent that we did, we can slow the spread pretty significantly.  Some would argue that we slowed it "too much."  Now, what I think we're about to find out is how this thing spreads with more limited restrictions, but still generally speaking, limitations on mass gatherings.  People back to work and shopping with the majority of people using far better distancing and hygiene than before all of this started.  We'll find out whether that is the appropriate level of activity that will keep the spread at a level that our healthcare system can handle.

I do think that a lot of things have happened in the past six weeks that put us in a much better position than we were then.  Unfortunately, like everyone else, I wish we had a better handle on testing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 04, 2020, 01:14:40 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on May 04, 2020, 01:10:15 PM

What's wrong with liquor stores? In some areas that liquor store is the primary grocery store. I feel like there's a lot of better things to get frustrated about than those

In cases where that is true, they would fall under the grocery store exception.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 04, 2020, 01:15:30 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on May 04, 2020, 01:04:18 PM

The only hope is we find effective treatments and soon.

This always was the only hope.
The leadership at the top has been incompetent and negligent at best and I have zero doubt that has made the situation worse.
But it's also a feature of our system that there never was going to be a unified, national approach to this. We can debate the New Zealand approach vs the Sweden approach vs any other approach all we want, but none of them would have produced similar results here because of who we are.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 04, 2020, 01:17:33 PM

We seem closest to the Brazil approach.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 04, 2020, 01:21:41 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 04, 2020, 01:15:30 PM

This always was the only hope.
The leadership at the top has been incompetent and negligent at best and I have zero doubt that has made the situation worse.
But it's also a feature of our system that there never was going to be a unified, national approach to this. We can debate the New Zealand approach vs the Sweden approach vs any other approach all we want, but none of them would have produced similar results here because of who we are.

Precisely, and now we're going to put our doctors and nurses in more danger so Karen and Todd can get haircuts and other bullspit for two weeks... when we realize what a terrible decision we've made.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 04, 2020, 01:36:59 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 04, 2020, 01:15:30 PM

But it's also a feature of our system that there never was going to be a unified, national approach to this. We can debate the New Zealand approach vs the Sweden approach vs any other approach all we want, but none of them would have produced similar results here because of who we are.

You are correct - it would never be fully unified like in SK or China.

But if we had a strong president who emphatically and consistently encouraged stay-at-home orders, and leaned hard on governors who didn't follow, we could have been close. Look at the reality - most of the states that were late in closing or that never closed have Republican governors. And they knew he wasn't really serious about stay-at-home orders, because he waffled back and forth between that and his 'liberate' tweets. A strong leader who took the experts seriously might very well have gotten us to 90% or better compliance in closing and then opening up in a more scientifically sound manner...and that would have been much better than we got.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 04, 2020, 01:46:04 PM

I actually think the next month will be interesting.  In my opinion, the northeast went through a real hard phase 1 of this because we had no confirmation it was circulating.  It damn near broke the health system, and caused really bad deaths/1M (like worse than Italy, Spain, UK or pretty much anywhere else).  People here are shell shocked, but I think there is a hope we can relax a bit now that the health system caught up.  The govt's are going to find ways to turn things on and are working to improve testing and tracing. 

The other parts of the country acted quick enough to slow that from happening, benefited to some degree and now are quick to return. 

We (the NE) may actually get to learn from them this time .  Most people are tired of this, but also have low desire to go back to the way it was until at least later this month.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on May 04, 2020, 02:08:23 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 04, 2020, 08:24:14 AM

On behalf of your inferiors everywhere, thanks for your prayers that we be delivered from our stupidity. So thoughtful, so kind - just what we hope for from our superiors.

Apologies that despite your efforts we continue to disappoint you. It must make your life very difficult.

The fact that you responded in this manner to a post that wasn't directed specifically at you says it all. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 04, 2020, 02:10:36 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 04, 2020, 01:46:04 PM

I actually think the next month will be interesting.  In my opinion, the northeast went through a real hard phase 1 of this because we had no confirmation it was circulating.  It damn near broke the health system, and caused really bad deaths/1M (like worse than Italy, Spain, UK or pretty much anywhere else).  People here are shell shocked, but I think there is a hope we can relax a bit now that the health system caught up.  The govt's are going to find ways to turn things on and are working to improve testing and tracing. 

The other parts of the country acted quick enough to slow that from happening, benefited to some degree and now are quick to return. 

We (the NE) may actually get to learn from them this time .  Most people are tired of this, but also have low desire to go back to the way it was until at least later this month.

Frenn,
Was speaking with a business acquaintance on Friday who lives in sparsely populated (for Connecticut) Windham County.  He's fairly certain he and whole family had Coronavirus in late January / early February.  He said it was also going through all the schools in the area.   He had all the symptoms.  There are several Prep Schools in the area among them The Woodstock Academy and Pomfret School who have numbers of international students including Chinese.   He knows someone at The Woodstock Academy who told him "we figured early we might have a problem because we got 5 students from Wuhan."  All the students came back early after New Year's and the thought is some had it and it passed through to the locals.

On a good note, over the weekend I saw my neighbor works in the Yale-New Haven Hospital Medical Lab and she has obviously been very busy but said the hospital was ramping up now for massive increases in testing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 04, 2020, 02:28:49 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 04, 2020, 02:10:36 PM

On a good note, over the weekend I saw my neighbor works in the Yale-New Haven Hospital Medical Lab and she has obviously been very busy but said the hospital was ramping up now for massive increases in testing.

I think CT is up to 10-12 days of declining hospitalization—which is awesome.  We are also very close the to testing recommended by the Harvard study.  Hopefully can help us keep it better contained for eventual new normal or round two if it comes. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 04, 2020, 02:30:08 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 04, 2020, 01:36:59 PM

You are correct - it would never be fully unified like in SK or China.

But if we had a strong president who emphatically and consistently encouraged stay-at-home orders, and leaned hard on governors who didn't follow, we could have been close. Look at the reality - most of the states that were late in closing or that never closed have Republican governors. And they knew he wasn't really serious about stay-at-home orders, because he waffled back and forth between that and his 'liberate' tweets. A strong leader who took the experts seriously might very well have gotten us to 90% or better compliance in closing and then opening up in a more scientifically sound manner...and that would have been much better than we got.

It would be nice to think so, but the cynical portion of me has its doubts.
We live in a country where powerful influences on both sides of the debate (looking at you Fox News and MSNBC) have worked very hard to profit off portraying the other side not just as wrong, but as malevolent. Where a president has spent the last few years openly attacking and fomenting distrust in our institutions. Where a significant portion of our population view our government as a swamp. Where the phrase "government worker" is used as a pejorative.

I agree that a better president would have produced better results, but I think the combination of our political structure combined with our current political climate and culture would make it very difficult to bring about a unified approach.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on May 04, 2020, 03:05:14 PM

Quote from: forgetful on May 04, 2020, 12:31:36 PM

Agreed, whether you like his politics or not, is one thing. But he is a genuinely enjoyable and kind individual.

Yeah I don't think it is a matter of disagreeing with politics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 04, 2020, 03:23:05 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 04, 2020, 02:30:08 PM

It would be nice to think so, but the cynical portion of me has its doubts.
We live in a country where powerful influences on both sides of the debate (looking at you Fox News and MSNBC) have worked very hard to profit off portraying the other side not just as wrong, but as malevolent. Where a president has spent the last few years openly attacking and fomenting distrust in our institutions. Where a significant portion of our population view our government as a swamp. Where the phrase "government worker" is used as a pejorative.

I agree that a better president would have produced better results, but I think the combination of our political structure combined with our current political climate and culture would make it very difficult to bring about a unified approach.

I get what you are saying - we already had a very polarized society, and along came a presidential candidate who saw the fire and poured gasoline on it with "fake news!" "lock her up!" and "drain the swamp!" And he won so the polarization went nuclear.

But my hope was that the person who had widened the divide also had the ability to narrow it in the face of a catastrophe. And I think he could have, if only he had recognized and seized the opportunity.

Alas.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 04, 2020, 06:59:11 PM

He makes some good points in my opinion.

https://youtu.be/28I5WyLp15o

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 04, 2020, 07:11:47 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on May 04, 2020, 11:05:20 AM

He doesn't have to turn it on, hes always been charming.  Politics and presidency aside, hes always been an enjoyable and charismatic person to be around.  Michelle Obama loves him, that speaks volumes.

m


He was destroyed by 1/2 the country.  As was Obama.  As were others.  That’s all we do is destroy these people, that is 100% the goal of the resistance the other side puts up.  It didn’t always used to be that way. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 04, 2020, 07:13:36 PM

Alexander Hamilton misses the genteel old days.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 04, 2020, 07:24:41 PM

Quote from: Jockey on May 04, 2020, 07:13:36 PM

Alexander Hamilton misses the genteel old days.

One can always serve up the exception as the rule.  We have had periods of time with cooperation and bipartisanship, and periods of endless fighting.  Guess which one we are in now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 04, 2020, 07:26:43 PM

Quote from: Jockey on May 04, 2020, 07:13:36 PM

Alexander Hamilton misses the genteel old days.

Lincoln, too. He was one of the two worst-treated presidents in history, I'm told.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 04, 2020, 07:32:30 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 04, 2020, 07:24:41 PM

One can always serve up the exception as the rule.  We have had periods of time with cooperation and bipartisanship, and periods of endless fighting.  Guess which one we are in now.

For someone like yourself who has only ever voted left, your posting sure seems like we're in a period of time with cooperation and bipartisanship.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 04, 2020, 08:01:22 PM

This would be crazy if true.

 https://thehill.com/policy/international/europe/496075-french-hospital-discovers-it-treated-coronavirus-patient-in (https://thehill.com/policy/international/europe/496075-french-hospital-discovers-it-treated-coronavirus-patient-in)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 04, 2020, 08:57:46 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 04, 2020, 08:01:22 PM

This would be crazy if true.

 https://thehill.com/policy/international/europe/496075-french-hospital-discovers-it-treated-coronavirus-patient-in (https://thehill.com/policy/international/europe/496075-french-hospital-discovers-it-treated-coronavirus-patient-in)

Two things, if this is true, and not just a false positive.

1. I'd love to see the genetic sequence of this positive test. What mutations are present? We know that it had to be circulating either in animals or humans for a while before being able to spread more readily in humans.

2. This could call into question whether this actually started in China at all, or if they were just one of the earliest nations to have the version most able to spread person to person.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 04, 2020, 09:34:35 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 04, 2020, 07:24:41 PM

One can always serve up the exception as the rule.  We have had periods of time with cooperation and bipartisanship, and periods of endless fighting.  Guess which one we are in now.

Rose.  Tinted.  Glasses.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 04, 2020, 09:47:03 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 04, 2020, 07:26:43 PM

Lincoln, too. He was one of the two worst-treated presidents in history, I'm told.

People say.

And they say it very strongly.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 04, 2020, 09:48:00 PM

A tiny glimmer of hope? Study finds COVID-19 mutation weakening virus, similar to what happened with SARS.
Obviously a lot of caveats here, but you take hope where you can get it.

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2020-05/asu-ast050420.php

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 04, 2020, 10:33:21 PM

Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on May 04, 2020, 02:08:23 PM

The fact that you responded in this manner to a post that wasn't directed specifically at you says it all.

In many ways people are the sum of their experiences. Judging people stupid because their biases are different from yours says nothing about them and volumes about you. It doesn’t advance the discussion - it stops it in its tracks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on May 04, 2020, 10:59:18 PM

    "A strong leader who took the experts seriously might very well have gotten us to 90% or better compliance in closing and then opening up in a more scientifically sound manner...and that would have been much better than we got."

  who are these people you refer to as "experts"?  i've been saying this all along.  if we ran a montage of wjat the various "experts" have said over time, they were only expertly right until they were proven wrong.  then it was the next man/woman up.

that aside, dr fauci should know a little more than some with regards to this bat virus test as he was for it before he was against it, eyn'a?  i
    think he' got some "splaining to do

https://www.newsweek.com/dr-fauci-backed-controversial-wuhan-lab-millions-us-dollars-risky-coronavirus-research-1500741

   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 04, 2020, 11:24:16 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on May 04, 2020, 10:59:18 PM

    "A strong leader who took the experts seriously might very well have gotten us to 90% or better compliance in closing and then opening up in a more scientifically sound manner...and that would have been much better than we got."

  who are these people you refer to as "experts"?  i've been saying this all along.  if we ran a montage of wjat the various "experts" have said over time, they were only expertly right until they were proven wrong.  then it was the next man/woman up.

that aside, dr fauci should know a little more than some with regards to this bat virus test as he was for it before he was against it, eyn'a?  i
    think he' got some "splaining to do

https://www.newsweek.com/dr-fauci-backed-controversial-wuhan-lab-millions-us-dollars-risky-coronavirus-research-1500741

 

How many times do you need to ask the same question?

Public health experts (at places like CDC, Johns Hopkins and Mayo Clinic) have been consistent all along in calling for stay at home orders, and a slow return to normal only when the numbers are decreasing and adequate testing and contact tracing are available.

Sure, there have been gradual changes in what we know about the virus and how to treat it, but the basic pandemic-fighting recommendations have been the same all along.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 04, 2020, 11:30:37 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on May 04, 2020, 10:59:18 PM

 
that aside, dr fauci should know a little more than some with regards to this bat virus test as he was for it before he was against it, eyn'a?  i
    think he' got some "splaining to do

https://www.newsweek.com/dr-fauci-backed-controversial-wuhan-lab-millions-us-dollars-risky-coronavirus-research-1500741

These gain of function studies are quite controversial. The Obama administration banned funding for such research, as they feared that a gain of function virus could escape, or the information could be used nefariously.

The Trump administration reinstituted it in 2017.

An interesting history regarding the gain of function studies, and a hotly debated ethical question in research.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on May 05, 2020, 05:52:23 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 04, 2020, 11:24:16 PM

How many times do you need to ask the same question?

Public health experts (at places like CDC, Johns Hopkins and Mayo Clinic) have been consistent all along in calling for stay at home orders, and a slow return to normal only when the numbers are decreasing and adequate testing and contact tracing are available.

Sure, there have been gradual changes in what we know about the virus and how to treat it, but the basic pandemic-fighting recommendations have been the same all along.

my point is gm, that the "experts" are not scrutinized enough.  for example, i saw an interview with an doc on tv who was raising all of these alarm bells over the use of hydroxychlor.  stating it was causing to big of risk with heart issues.  then on another station, i see a doc who cited his actual uses of the drug with his patients, taking EKG, noting no changes in the QT intervals whatsoever, along the way, not seeing ANY heart issues.  it's not an anecdotal story.  i could probably find it if i had to.  i am merely stating that once we latch onto someone, it seems they are Gospel.  what they are finding is if hydroxychlor. is used early enough in the illness, it saves patients from getting to the point of needing venilators, saving hospital space and shortening thge duration of illness.  many on this board and the media did not want to acknowledge the benefits of hydroxychlor, much less allow the "experts" to use it.  so much so, to the point of disallowing it's use.  so much for interfering with doctor-patient relationship and decisions. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 05, 2020, 06:12:43 AM

Rocket- I wholeheartedly disagree. Experts are vetted by learning, more info/data and more experts testing hypotheses to an accepted conclusion.  Yes you need to find out who you are listening to.  That is up to the consumer and the platform presenting to vet. 

I’m not sure what this has to do with one drug treatment. It got the access to trials and emergency use. If it worked better we would be using it more.

I wish it wasn’t politicized and promoted by the media.  I wish there wasn’t the backlash of ‘I told you so’ when it didn’t rise to the top.  Wasted effort- distraction - dust storm when we need concrete actions. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 05, 2020, 06:32:31 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on May 05, 2020, 05:52:23 AM

my point is gm, that the "experts" are not scrutinized enough.  for example, i saw an interview with an doc on tv who was raising all of these alarm bells over the use of hydroxychlor.  stating it was causing to big of risk with heart issues.  then on another station, i see a doc who cited his actual uses of the drug with his patients, taking EKG, noting no changes in the QT intervals whatsoever, along the way, not seeing ANY heart issues.  it's not an anecdotal story.  i could probably find it if i had to.  i am merely stating that once we latch onto someone, it seems they are Gospel.  what they are finding is if hydroxychlor. is used early enough in the illness, it saves patients from getting to the point of needing venilators, saving hospital space and shortening thge duration of illness.  many on this board and the media did not want to acknowledge the benefits of hydroxychlor, much less allow the "experts" to use it.  so much so, to the point of disallowing it's use.  so much for interfering with doctor-patient relationship and decisions.

Day after day, the leader of the free world was shouting for everybody to use hydroxychloroquine even though Fauci and other experts he employed repeatedly stressed that it was unvetted for COVID-19 and possibly dangerous. "What do you have to lose?" he kept shouting.

It turned out, some people had lives to lose. And once actual thorough studies started being done, hydroxychloroquine was found to be dangerous and rather ineffective in treating COVID-19.

There's a reason President Pandemic, Vice President Hannity and the rest of his Fox News cabinet suddenly stopped touting it -- and that reason wasn't because it was working those "miracles" your emperor had been promising.

What did he have to lose? Credibility. Again. He always thinks there are shortcuts, super-quick ways to do things that science says, "Sorry, this takes time." THAT was the point the media was trying to make about hydroxychloroquine. In making it, maybe they even saved a few lives.

Within a day after President Pandemic told Birx he'd like to see her look into the possibility of injecting people with disinfectants, hundreds of people were ingesting Lysol, Clorox, 409 and the like. Were they idiots? Yes. Was it the emperor's "fault"? He sure didn't think so. But when the president speaks, his words have more consequences than yours and mine do.

Trying to vilify experts is the latest trick in the emperor's "not my fault" handbook.

Incompetent experts, the media, China. Obama, the WHO, Congress, Dems, the CDC, Bush, governors, Never-Trumpers, liberals ... the list of those to blame goes on and on. The only one who somehow escapes his blame is the orange guy he stares at in the mirror.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 05, 2020, 06:48:30 AM

From the NY Times morning brief:

"Why has the United States failed to bring down its caseload as much as most other countries?

The answer isn’t completely clear, given the complexity of the virus. But the leading suspect, many experts say, is the uneven nature of the U.S. response — like the shortage of tests so far and the mixed approach to social distancing.

“The problem with the American response is that it’s so haphazard,” Ashish Jha, director of the Harvard Global Health Institute, told me.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 05, 2020, 07:58:03 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on May 05, 2020, 06:48:30 AM

From the NY Times morning brief:

"Why has the United States failed to bring down its caseload as much as most other countries?

The answer isn’t completely clear, given the complexity of the virus. But the leading suspect, many experts say, is the uneven nature of the U.S. response — like the shortage of tests so far and the mixed approach to social distancing.

“The problem with the American response is that it’s so haphazard,” Ashish Jha, director of the Harvard Global Health Institute, told me.

Oh here you go again.  Touting some "expert."  But do we really know that Ashish Jha is really an "expert?"  What about those two ER docs from Bakersfield?  Who's to say that they don't know as much about public health as the director of the Harvard Global Health Institute?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 05, 2020, 08:04:16 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on May 05, 2020, 05:52:23 AM

my point is gm, that the "experts" are not scrutinized enough.

Then scrutinize them! 

Look into who is being quoted and what their backgrounds are.  Don't just believe everyone who has an "MD" after their name as having a equally informed view of the pandemic.  And also realize that no expert is right 100% of the time.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 05, 2020, 08:13:42 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 05, 2020, 07:58:03 AM

Oh here you go again.  Touting some "expert."  But do we really know that Ashish Jha is really an "expert?"  What about those two ER docs from Bakersfield?  Who's to say that they don't know as much about public health as the director of the Harvard Global Health Institute?

You're right. I'm busted! There is simply NO way to discern if someone is an expert.

There is one exception, as we know: the only ones we should trust are "healthcare professionals". They know all.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 05, 2020, 08:30:36 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on May 05, 2020, 08:13:42 AM

You're right. I'm busted! There is simply NO way to discern if someone is an expert.

There is one exception, as we know: the only ones we should trust are "healthcare professionals". They know all.

Rocket brain could care less who the experts are. He only knows of only one expert who of course is a functional idiot. His job is to defend the big brained genius.

Incidentally, Fox stopped pushing hydroxy because their lawyers told them to stop.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 05, 2020, 08:41:54 AM

Quote from: Jockey on May 05, 2020, 08:30:36 AM

Rocket brain could care less who the experts are. He only knows of only one expert who of course is a functional idiot. His job is to defend the big brained genius.

There is really no reason for this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 05, 2020, 08:49:01 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 05, 2020, 08:41:54 AM

There is really no reason for this.

He's been called out on this before.  He apologizes, but seemingly can't help himself.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 05, 2020, 08:50:23 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on May 05, 2020, 05:52:23 AM

my point is gm, that the "experts" are not scrutinized enough.  for example, i saw an interview with an doc on tv who was raising all of these alarm bells over the use of hydroxychlor.  stating it was causing to big of risk with heart issues.  then on another station, i see a doc who cited his actual uses of the drug with his patients, taking EKG, noting no changes in the QT intervals whatsoever, along the way, not seeing ANY heart issues.  it's not an anecdotal story.  i could probably find it if i had to.  i am merely stating that once we latch onto someone, it seems they are Gospel.  what they are finding is if hydroxychlor. is used early enough in the illness, it saves patients from getting to the point of needing venilators, saving hospital space and shortening thge duration of illness.  many on this board and the media did not want to acknowledge the benefits of hydroxychlor, much less allow the "experts" to use it.  so much so, to the point of disallowing it's use.  so much for interfering with doctor-patient relationship and decisions.

Sweet sweet irony.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 05, 2020, 09:23:29 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on May 05, 2020, 06:48:30 AM

"The problem with the American response is that it’s so haphazard,” Ashish Jha, director of the Harvard Global Health Institute, told me.

Trump cheers on governors even as they ignore White House coronavirus guidelines in race to reopen
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-cheers-on-governors-even-as-they-ignore-white-house-coronavirus-guidelines-in-race-to-reopen/ar-BB13B6Rj?ocid=spartanntp

"Trump’s light criticism of Georgia’s decision to begin opening up businesses including barbershops and bowling alleys before meeting White House benchmarks was short-lived.

While the president said on April 23, he was “not happy” with Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) for the defying the guidelines, it took him only a week to deny his own remarks.

“I didn’t say that,” Trump said Friday when his quote about Kemp was read back to him."

Denying reality. Pure gaslighting. It will kill many thousands of Americans.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 05, 2020, 09:25:02 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 05, 2020, 08:04:16 AM

Then scrutinize them! 

Look into who is being quoted and what their backgrounds are.  Don't just believe everyone who has an "MD" after their name as having a equally informed view of the pandemic.  And also realize that no expert is right 100% of the time.

Correct!

In a pandemic, look beyond the "MD" or "PhD" to see what expertise they have specifically in the areas of public health, widespread outbreaks, etc. That will help you distinguish the two ER docs who recently posted that viral video a week or two ago from true public health experts. When in doubt, look to the organizations that you've heard about as thought leaders from one health issue to another, and you are probably looking at an organization worthy of trust.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 05, 2020, 09:35:24 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on May 05, 2020, 09:23:29 AM

Trump cheers on governors even as they ignore White House coronavirus guidelines in race to reopen
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-cheers-on-governors-even-as-they-ignore-white-house-coronavirus-guidelines-in-race-to-reopen/ar-BB13B6Rj?ocid=spartanntp

"Trump’s light criticism of Georgia’s decision to begin opening up businesses including barbershops and bowling alleys before meeting White House benchmarks was short-lived.

While the president said on April 23, he was “not happy” with Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) for the defying the guidelines, it took him only a week to deny his own remarks.

“I didn’t say that,” Trump said Friday when his quote about Kemp was read back to him."

Denying reality. Pure gaslighting. It will kill many thousands of Americans.

He is amazing. And his easily conned sheeple just cheer him on. Facts simply do not  matter. As Guiliani said: "Truth isn't truth."

Meanwhile ...

This from the Charlotte Observer ...

N.C. Gov. Roy Cooper remained hopeful Monday that more businesses will begin to reopen when the state’s stay-at-home order expires May 8. But North Carolina’s current COVID-19 numbers are lagging behind what federal and state guidelines recommend for reopening. The governor might need to adjust his approach to restrictions.

Cooper, in a news conference Monday morning, said he was “still hoping we can get to Phase 1” and that an announcement on specifics could come as early as Tuesday. White House guidelines, however, recommend a downward trajectory over a 14-day period of reported influenza like illnesses and COVID-19 symptoms before states start reopening. Cooper’s own reopening checklist calls for a downward trajectory in new cases, a “continued” downward trajectory in COVID-like illnesses and a 14-day downward trajectory in the number of people currently hospitalized. As of Monday, North Carolina hasn’t appeared to achieve any of those benchmarks.


This is the problem state after state will face.

The president put out a well-thought-out, 3-phase plan that included several benchmarks. Many governors, mostly (or maybe all) from red states, started re-opening their states even though few (if any) of the benchmarks had been met. And the very president who put out the benchmarks is cheering them on for ignoring his benchmarks. Again ... wonderful leadership.

Where do other states go from here? We can't stay "closed" forever. But it's quite possible the worst -- from a death-toll viewpoint, anyway -- is yet to come.

I'm glad I don't have to make these decisions.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 05, 2020, 09:38:21 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 05, 2020, 08:49:01 AM

He's been called out on this before.  He apologizes, but seemingly can't help himself.

Jockey and 82, two 60 year old toddlers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 05, 2020, 09:41:16 AM

Quote from: MU82 on May 05, 2020, 09:35:24 AM

This is the problem state after state will face.

The president put out a well-thought-out, 3-phase plan that included several benchmarks. Many governors, mostly (or maybe all) from red states, started re-opening their states even though few (if any) of the benchmarks had been met. And the very president who put out the benchmarks is cheering them on for ignoring his benchmarks. Again ... wonderful leadership.

Where do other states go from here? We can't stay "closed" forever. But it's quite possible the worst -- from a death-toll viewpoint, anyway -- is yet to come.

I'm glad I don't have to make these decisions.

Agreed, but this is not a future tense issue. Most states have begun some version of a phase-one reopening, even though very few (perhaps none) meet the criteria for reopening (14-day downward trajectory, widespread and fast testing, comprehensive contact tracing capabilities).

If your governor is just starting to consider reopening without meeting the criteria, he is acting prematurely...but far less prematurely than the governors of most states.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 05, 2020, 09:52:29 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 05, 2020, 09:41:16 AM

Agreed, but this is not a future tense issue. Most states have begun some version of a phase-one reopening, even though very few (perhaps none) meet the criteria for reopening (14-day downward trajectory, widespread and fast testing, comprehensive contact tracing capabilities).

If your governor is just starting to consider reopening without meeting the criteria, he is acting prematurely...but far less prematurely than the governors of most states.

Yes, I have a feeling Cooper is really, really wrestling with this. Probably losing sleep over it. As I would be if I were in his shoes.

We can't stay closed for another 3, 5, 10 months. Maybe not even another 3 weeks -- especially if most of the rest of the country, including all the states around us, are open.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on May 05, 2020, 10:25:26 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 05, 2020, 07:58:03 AM

Oh here you go again.  Touting some "expert."  But do we really know that Ashish Jha is really an "expert?"  What about those two ER docs from Bakersfield?  Who's to say that they don't know as much about public health as the director of the Harvard Global Health Institute?

I mean common sense is enough to tell you why we’ve done a horrible job here and it starts at the top.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on May 05, 2020, 10:31:42 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 04, 2020, 10:33:21 PM

In many ways people are the sum of their experiences. Judging people stupid because their biases are different from yours says nothing about them and volumes about you. It doesn’t advance the discussion - it stops it in its tracks.

You’re basically excusing stupidity and ignorance because of “biases”.  Specifically what “biases” are you referring to?

These people at protests with guns that don’t have masks and are not practicing social distancing have no interest in any type of discussion. Their actions make that perfectly clear. And yes, those people are stunningly stupid.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 05, 2020, 10:38:29 AM

Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on May 05, 2020, 10:31:42 AM

You’re basically excusing stupidity and ignorance because of “biases”.  Specifically what “biases” are you referring to?

These people at protests with guns that don’t have masks and are not practicing social distancing have no interest in any type of discussion. Their actions make that perfectly clear. And yes, those people are stunningly stupid.

They just want to buy seeds.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on May 05, 2020, 10:43:20 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 05, 2020, 10:38:29 AM

They just want to buy seeds.

Again, what “biases” are you referring to?  I’d genuinely like to know.

Edit: My fault - confused your response with Lenny. Apologies.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 05, 2020, 10:45:48 AM

Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on May 05, 2020, 10:43:20 AM

Again, what “biases” are you referring to?  I’d genuinely like to know.

I think pakuni is on your side. 

Or are you just arguing to argue with no real point?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 05, 2020, 10:50:16 AM

Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on May 05, 2020, 10:31:42 AM

These people at protests with guns that don’t have masks and are not practicing social distancing have no interest in any type of discussion.

Don't forget the swastikas, nooses and confederate flags carried by "these very good people."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on May 05, 2020, 10:53:54 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 05, 2020, 10:45:48 AM

I think pakuni is on your side. 

Or are you just arguing to argue with no real point?

Innocent mistake. I confused his response with someone else and edited my response to reflect that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lighthouse 84 on May 05, 2020, 11:25:50 AM

Quote from: MU82 on May 05, 2020, 10:50:16 AM

Don't forget the swastikas, nooses and confederate flags carried by "these very good people."

If comments like this are going to continue and be unchecked by the mods, why not just bring the Politics Board back?  It's a farce to label this as a "Politics Free Zone".

And no, I don't think those who carry a swastika, noose or confederate flag are "very good people."  My comment cuts both ways.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 05, 2020, 11:26:38 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 05, 2020, 10:38:29 AM

They just want to buy seeds.

The first thing the Revolutionary War minutemen did after taking over the airports was to enshrine in the Constitution the right to fish from powerboats.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 05, 2020, 12:00:47 PM

Ah, yes, let's putting unnatural carnal knowledgeing Jared in charge. Volunteers! Exceptional leadership.

Kushner coronavirus effort said to be hampered by inexperienced volunteers
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/kushner-coronavirus-effort-said-to-be-hampered-by-inexperienced-volunteers/2020/05/05/6166ef0c-8e1c-11ea-9e23-6914ee410a5f_story.html

"Although some of the volunteers have relevant backgrounds and experience, many others were poorly matched with the jobs they were assigned, including those given the task of securing personal protective equipment, or PPE, for hospitals nationwide, according to a complaint filed last month with the House Oversight Committee.

"The document alleges that the team responsible for PPE had little success in helping the government secure such equipment, in part because none of the team’s members had significant experience in health care, procurement or supply-chain operations. In addition, none of the volunteers had existing relationships with manufacturers or a clear understanding of customs requirements or Food and Drug Administration rules, according to the complaint and two senior administration officials."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 05, 2020, 12:32:58 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on May 05, 2020, 12:00:47 PM

Ah, yes, let's putting unnatural carnal knowledgeing Jared in charge. Volunteers! Exceptional leadership.

Kushner coronavirus effort said to be hampered by inexperienced volunteers
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/kushner-coronavirus-effort-said-to-be-hampered-by-inexperienced-volunteers/2020/05/05/6166ef0c-8e1c-11ea-9e23-6914ee410a5f_story.html

"Although some of the volunteers have relevant backgrounds and experience, many others were poorly matched with the jobs they were assigned, including those given the task of securing personal protective equipment, or PPE, for hospitals nationwide, according to a complaint filed last month with the House Oversight Committee.

"The document alleges that the team responsible for PPE had little success in helping the government secure such equipment, in part because none of the team’s members had significant experience in health care, procurement or supply-chain operations. In addition, none of the volunteers had existing relationships with manufacturers or a clear understanding of customs requirements or Food and Drug Administration rules, according to the complaint and two senior administration officials."

Jeez if this is true, this is just awful.  What a group we have in charge.

"The complaint, obtained by The Washington Post, was submitted by a volunteer who has since left the group and who spoke on the condition of anonymity for fear of retribution from the administration. Key elements of the complaint were confirmed by six administration officials and one outside adviser to the effort, many of whom spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations.

...

“Americans are facing a crisis of tragic proportions and there is an urgent need for an effective, efficient and bold response,” reads the complaint, which was sent to the committee on April 8. “From my few weeks as a volunteer, I believe we are falling short. I am writing to alert my representatives of these challenges and to ask that they do everything possible to help front-line health-care workers and other Americans in need.”

Supply-chain volunteers were instructed to fast-track protective equipment leads from “VIPs,” including conservative journalists friendly to the White House, according to the complaint and one senior administration official.

“Fox & Friends” host Brian Kilmeade, for example, called two people he knew in the administration to pass along a lead about protective equipment in an effort to be helpful, according to two people familiar with the outreach. Fox News Channel host Jeanine Pirro also repeatedly lobbied the administration for a specific New York hospital to receive a large quantity of masks, one of the people said."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 05, 2020, 12:46:20 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 05, 2020, 12:32:58 PM

Jeez if this is true, this is just awful.  What a group we have in charge.

"The complaint, obtained by The Washington Post, was submitted by a volunteer who has since left the group and who spoke on the condition of anonymity for fear of retribution from the administration. Key elements of the complaint were confirmed by six administration officials and one outside adviser to the effort, many of whom spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations.

...

“Americans are facing a crisis of tragic proportions and there is an urgent need for an effective, efficient and bold response,” reads the complaint, which was sent to the committee on April 8. “From my few weeks as a volunteer, I believe we are falling short. I am writing to alert my representatives of these challenges and to ask that they do everything possible to help front-line health-care workers and other Americans in need.”

Supply-chain volunteers were instructed to fast-track protective equipment leads from “VIPs,” including conservative journalists friendly to the White House, according to the complaint and one senior administration official.

“Fox & Friends” host Brian Kilmeade, for example, called two people he knew in the administration to pass along a lead about protective equipment in an effort to be helpful, according to two people familiar with the outreach. Fox News Channel host Jeanine Pirro also repeatedly lobbied the administration for a specific New York hospital to receive a large quantity of masks, one of the people said."

I can add some first hand experience here.  For the last 6 weeks I have been quoting flat aluminum wire for everybody and their brother who has gotten into mask making.  I've been negotiating with Walmart the last 2 weeks which is dragging out because of their ridiculous T&Cs.  The first 3-4 weeks basically no one wanted to pull the trigger on a PO.  I had one PO before Easter and it was a do-gooder in the North Philly suburbs.  Finally customers have started ordering last week.  No idea what was holding everyone back for so long? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 05, 2020, 01:02:52 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on May 05, 2020, 12:00:47 PM

Ah, yes, let's putting unnatural carnal knowledgeing Jared in charge. Volunteers! Exceptional leadership.

Kushner coronavirus effort said to be hampered by inexperienced volunteers
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/kushner-coronavirus-effort-said-to-be-hampered-by-inexperienced-volunteers/2020/05/05/6166ef0c-8e1c-11ea-9e23-6914ee410a5f_story.html

"Although some of the volunteers have relevant backgrounds and experience, many others were poorly matched with the jobs they were assigned, including those given the task of securing personal protective equipment, or PPE, for hospitals nationwide, according to a complaint filed last month with the House Oversight Committee.

"The document alleges that the team responsible for PPE had little success in helping the government secure such equipment, in part because none of the team’s members had significant experience in health care, procurement or supply-chain operations. In addition, none of the volunteers had existing relationships with manufacturers or a clear understanding of customs requirements or Food and Drug Administration rules, according to the complaint and two senior administration officials."

Sad to say, but this was entirely predictable. Jared can't even run his own business effectively. There was no reason to believe he would be effective at negotiating peace in the Middle East, solving the opioid crisis, reforming the criminal justice system...or helping with the COVID-19 crisis.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 05, 2020, 01:44:02 PM

A cautionary note in the rush to find new treatments:

This Drug May Cause Birth Defects. Japan’s Pushing It for Coronavirus.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/05/business/japan-avigan-coronavirus.html

The prime minister, however, has glossed over one crucial fact: There is no solid evidence that Avigan is actually effective against Covid-19. While the drug has shown potential for treating some deadly diseases like Ebola in animal studies, there are limited findings that it works for any illness in humans.

What Avigan, whose generic name is favipiravir, does have is a peculiar regulatory history and one dangerous potential side effect — birth defects. Mr. Abe himself noted in a news conference on Monday that the side effect was “the same as thalidomide,” which caused deformities in thousands of babies in the 1950s and ’60s.

________

Personally, I think it is terrific that many companies and academic medical centers are actively studying vaccines and drugs that might be effective in preventing or treating COVID. But we can't lose sight of the need to test these thoroughly - the requirements for thorough double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trials are there for a reason.

As for the aforementioned thalidomide...fortunately, the FDA was wise enough not to approve it for treatment of insomnia, as it has been in approved in many European countries. This denial - the result of the FDA following its thorough requirements - may have prevented thousands of babies from being born with birth defects. I am especially appreciative of this, because my mom took (different) medications for sleep and anxiety. She may have taken thalidomide if it had been approved between the initial application in December 1960 and the eventual withdrawal of the application in March 1962. I was born in June 1962. So yeah - FDA following its scrupulous approval requirements is a big deal to me.

An interesting final postscript: The medical reviewer at FDA who refused to approve the drug for insomnia was Frances Oldham Kelsey. This was her first assignment at FDA; it was given to her because superiors thought it would be an 'easy' drug to approve. But Kelsey was suspicious of the data, and her refusal to approve the drug despite immense pressure from the company earned her broad accolades including headline stories in The Washington Post and New York Times. Chapeau, Dr. Kelsey!

https://web.archive.org/web/20090512235601/https://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2001/201_kelsey.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 05, 2020, 01:54:51 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 05, 2020, 01:02:52 PM

Sad to say, but this was entirely predictable. Jared can't even run his own business effectively. There was no reason to believe he would be effective at negotiating peace in the Middle East, solving the opioid crisis, reforming the criminal justice system...or helping with the COVID-19 crisis.

Not only do they pick a person who knows NOTHING to lead the effort, they then rely on frickin volunteers and Fox New hosts to try to source the stuff.

The sheer intentional incompetence here is stunning, yet some people see no problem with them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 05, 2020, 02:00:37 PM

The "volunteers" line makes it look like this was your Aunt Mabel who also volunteers at the VFW meat raffle and the local election.  But it was actually on-loan executives from consulting firms and the like.  That's not necessarily bad.  But it looks like the skill-sets was more a mismatch than anything.

"About two dozen employees from Boston Consulting Group, Insight, McKinsey and other firms have volunteered their time — some on paid vacation leave from their jobs and others without pay — to aid the Trump administration’s response to the coronavirus pandemic, according to administration officials and others familiar with the arrangement.

Although some of the volunteers have relevant backgrounds and experience, many others were poorly matched with the jobs they were assigned, including those given the task of securing personal protective equipment, or PPE, for hospitals nationwide, according to a complaint filed last month with the House Oversight Committee."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 05, 2020, 02:16:21 PM

The results apparently weren't any better than Aunt Mabel could have produced. Sure, they were execs and consultants, but they had zero expertise in this area. And why did we have to rely on non-experienced non-experts in the first place? Oh, that's right, someone disbanded the global health security team:

"It's worth emphasizing that this is Trump's second explanation related to his decision to disband his global health security team. "I'm a business person," he explained two weeks ago in response to a similar question. "I don't like having thousands of people around when you don't need them. When we need them, we can get them back very quickly."

"As it turns out, the administration cannot actually reassemble such a team "very quickly," though Trump, still unfamiliar with how much of the executive branch works, may not have known that."

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trump-struggles-explain-why-he-disbanded-his-global-health-team-n1153221

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 05, 2020, 02:25:36 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on May 05, 2020, 02:16:21 PM

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trump-struggles-explain-why-he-disbanded-his-global-health-team-n1153221

Fox lies
Fox lies
Fox lies
Fox lies
Fox lies

Citing madcow is just as dumb as citing carlson as a legitimate source.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 05, 2020, 02:31:00 PM

Quote from: Mane'shouse 84 on May 05, 2020, 11:25:50 AM

If comments like this are going to continue and be unchecked by the mods, why not just bring the Politics Board back?  It's a farce to label this as a "Politics Free Zone".

And no, I don't think those who carry a swastika, noose or confederate flag are "very good people."  My comment cuts both ways.

The Michigan protesters were carrying signs with swastikas, confederate flags and nooses. (And, of course, guns. Lots of guns.) And the president called the protesters "very good people."

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1256202305680158720

It's news about COVID-19. Facts. Not opinion at all. And quite tame compared to much of the stuff in this thread.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 05, 2020, 03:10:26 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 05, 2020, 02:31:00 PM

The Michigan protesters were carrying signs with swastikas, confederate flags and nooses. (And, of course, guns. Lots of guns.) And the president called the protesters "very good people."

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1256202305680158720

It's news about COVID-19. Facts. Not opinion at all. And quite tame compared to much of the stuff in this thread.

There's a tweet identifying a photo that has been circulating of a man with a beard, bald head and without a mask who is screaming into two police officer faces.
Meet Rob Cantrell who lives in Los Angeles. Rob is a white supremacist who is being paid to attend protests in blue states all over the country.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 05, 2020, 03:20:17 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 05, 2020, 02:25:36 PM

Fox lies
Fox lies
Fox lies
Fox lies
Fox lies

Citing madcow is just as dumb as citing carlson as a legitimate source.

This is just my recommendation so take it FWIW, but if I were you I wouldn't be so eager to show how stupid I could be.

The source is Trump's own words.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on May 05, 2020, 03:23:54 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 05, 2020, 03:10:26 PM

There's a tweet identifying a photo that has been circulating of a man with a beard, bald head and without a mask who is screaming into two police officer faces.
Meet Rob Cantrell who lives in Los Angeles. Rob is a white supremacist who is being paid to attend protests in blue states all over the country.

If true, astroturfing at its finest.  Democrats do it do.  It is maddening to me.  One of the scariest trends in our democracy.  I would not be surprised at all to find out that foreign actors are playing a role here as well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 05, 2020, 03:25:44 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 05, 2020, 03:10:26 PM

There's a tweet identifying a photo that has been circulating of a man with a beard, bald head and without a mask who is screaming into two police officer faces.
Meet Rob Cantrell who lives in Los Angeles. Rob is a white supremacist who is being paid to attend protests in blue states all over the country.

Maybe he was just in town to buy paint at the local Home Depot and was outraged to learn that he couldn't.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 05, 2020, 03:26:02 PM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on May 05, 2020, 03:23:54 PM

If true, astroturfing at its finest.  Democrats do it do.  It is maddening to me.  One of the scariest trends in our democracy.  I would not be surprised at all to find out that foreign actors are playing a role here as well.

https://twitter.com/stonecold2050/status/1257032454088478720?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1257032454088478720&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailykos.com%2Fstory%2F2020%2F5%2F4%2F1942636%2F-Michigan-Protestors-Again

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 05, 2020, 03:31:26 PM

On another subject, I see there are several articles this week on how Coronavirus is changing office layouts.

The open office is probably dead and shorter cube farm partitions will go back to being tall.
Also, that the trend was for companies to head to downtown locations and the thought is they will head back out to the suburban office park. 
Smaller office spaces in that suburban park and have more people work from home.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on May 05, 2020, 03:53:50 PM

Rob Cantrell is a ‘Proud Boy’ who apparently was one of the guys in MAGA hats who threatened the bookstore in Berkeley a couple of years ago in a video that went viral.
Unfortunately in googling him I also found there is a comedian in NYC with the same name -I feel for him right now. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 05, 2020, 04:13:36 PM

Quote from: wadesworld on May 04, 2020, 07:32:30 PM

For someone like yourself who has only ever voted left, your posting sure seems like we're in a period of time with cooperation and bipartisanship.

I vote for candidates that I think can help the country work together.  As I said, if Warren or Bernie had won they would not get my vote.  I find the pulling on both sides to their ideological beacons bad for this country.

My voting for Democrats only in the presidency is correct.  Not always the case in other offices. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 05, 2020, 04:16:01 PM

I have been critical of DeSantis’ approach here.  Maybe he got lucky or right, but Florida did better than the doomers predicted by a long shot.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/smart-or-lucky-how-florida-dodged-the-worst-of-coronavirus-11588531865

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 05, 2020, 04:32:05 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 05, 2020, 06:12:43 AM

Rocket- I wholeheartedly disagree. Experts are vetted by learning, more info/data and more experts testing hypotheses to an accepted conclusion.  Yes you need to find out who you are listening to.  That is up to the consumer and the platform presenting to vet. 

I’m not sure what this has to do with one drug treatment. It got the access to trials and emergency use. If it worked better we would be using it more.

I wish it wasn’t politicized and promoted by the media.  I wish there wasn’t the backlash of ‘I told you so’ when it didn’t rise to the top.  Wasted effort- distraction - dust storm when we need concrete actions.

Is WHO, the World Health Organization made up of experts?  In late January did they not say COVID 19 had shown no evidence passing from human to human contact?  Their own twitter account suggests they did.  They were wrong.

I, too, have found experts have been wrong on any number of areas with COVId, flipped positions, modified opinions, said one thing only to change and then return back to their original position months later.  Not that surprising as this is not something the world was ready to deal with.  As usual here, it then becomes politicized based on which side wants to push an approach, strategy, treatment and it becomes our expert vs your expert.  Some are cheering for one side to fail.  It really is something.  Social media and even on TV these days is more dire than ever.  People actively wishing people die because they don’t choose their side’s path on a solution.  Both sides doing it. 

United America we are not.  Haven’t been for many years.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 05, 2020, 04:59:47 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 05, 2020, 04:16:01 PM

I have been critical of DeSantis’ approach here.  Maybe he got lucky or right, but Florida did better than the doomers predicted by a long shot.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/smart-or-lucky-how-florida-dodged-the-worst-of-coronavirus-11588531865

Mainly because he’s been successful on suppressing state numbers. Most all Florida numbers in the last week have been from private labs.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 05, 2020, 05:01:42 PM

https://www.freep.com/story/news/2020/05/05/michigan-capitol-building-protest-picture/3084192001/

Nah, the screamer is home grown.    We don't need to import them.    We have plenty home made ones. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 05, 2020, 05:06:18 PM

Quote from: tower912 on May 05, 2020, 05:01:42 PM

https://www.freep.com/story/news/2020/05/05/michigan-capitol-building-protest-picture/3084192001/

Nah, the screamer is home grown.    We don't need to import them.    We have plenty home made ones.

A bernie bro and a trump bot.  Yes, Michigan!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 05, 2020, 05:09:04 PM

Don't forget, if he is awake, then he is high.    So I guess it all tracks. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 05, 2020, 05:12:38 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 05, 2020, 04:32:05 PM

Is WHO, the World Health Organization made up of experts?  In late January did they not say COVID 19 had shown no evidence passing from human to human contact?  Their own twitter account suggests they did.  They were wrong.

Yes, the person who runs WHO's Twitter account was wrong to report what the organization had been told by the Chinese health officials. Clearly they should have been more wary of the Chinese government's willingness to be dishonest.
That says a lot about the political savvy of WHO. But I'm not sure it has anything to do with the public health experts who work there.
Care to explain?

All of this is classic Arguendo Cheeks, wherein nothing is ever valid unless there is 100% agreement. And even then, who knows, because there was that one time when that one scientist was wrong ... how do we know this totally different scientist isn't wrong now?
It doesn't matter what the vast majority of the medical community says as long as there are a couple of quacks in Bakersfield who use erroneous data to say something different.
Who could possibly know which side is more credible? How can we trust in the opinion of the nation's top epidemiologists when an OB-GYN from Tennessee has a different take?
500 economists ...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 05, 2020, 05:17:22 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 05, 2020, 04:13:36 PM

I vote for candidates that I think can help the country work together.  As I said, if Warren or Bernie had won they would not get my vote.  I find the pulling on both sides to their ideological beacons bad for this country.

My voting for Democrats only in the presidency is correct.  Not always the case in other offices.

You think Bernie and Warren are "ideological beacons"? What was FDR?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 05, 2020, 05:18:08 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on May 05, 2020, 04:59:47 PM

Mainly because he’s been successful on surprising state numbers. Most all Florida numbers in the last week have been from private labs.

Yup. DeSantis has been holding back data intentionally.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 05, 2020, 07:14:16 PM

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/gop-sen-alexander-warns-congress-a-highly-efficient-virus-spreading-machine

Lamar Alexander (R-Texas), doesn't think it is a good idea to reconvene congress, because of the risk of spreading infections. He has not spoken out about states that are reopening, including his own, putting people at similar risk.

Some of his concern is in congressman going to DC, then returning home on weekends...maybe if he is so concerned, he should: 1) speak out agains opening other places of employment. 2) Not fly back and forth every weekend on the taxpayers dime, and instead stay in DC and actually do the job they are supposed to be doing.

I have no idea how congress was on vacation during the worst crises to hit this nation in decades.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/05/top-republican-urges-mcconnell-and-pelosi-to-accept-coronavirus-tests-for-congress-237800

He's also saying they need to be first in line for testing...because safety, and protecting their loved ones.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 05, 2020, 07:25:24 PM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on May 05, 2020, 03:23:54 PM

If true, astroturfing at its finest.  Democrats do it do.  It is maddening to me.  One of the scariest trends in our democracy.  I would not be surprised at all to find out that foreign actors are playing a role here as well.

You know of a lot of white supremacist Dems who support Trump, say COVID-19 was a Chinese plot, and proudly don't wear masks during a global pandemic?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on May 05, 2020, 08:31:05 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 05, 2020, 07:25:24 PM

You know of a lot of white supremacist Dems who support Trump, say COVID-19 was a Chinese plot, and proudly don't wear masks during a global pandemic?

I think he’s implying that it’s not just one party that astroturfs. And that’s not wrong at all.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 05, 2020, 09:44:04 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on May 05, 2020, 08:31:05 PM

I think he’s implying that it’s not just one party that astroturfs. And that’s not wrong at all.

Ah ... got it. Absolutely true.

Sorry about that, Dano.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on May 05, 2020, 09:46:14 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 05, 2020, 02:25:36 PM

Fox lies
Fox lies
Fox lies
Fox lies
Fox lies

Citing madcow is just as dumb as citing carlson as a legitimate source.

Actually he's citing an article written by one Steve Benen who wrote an article focused on Trump's own words. Maddow just posted the article.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on May 05, 2020, 09:52:54 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 05, 2020, 09:44:04 PM

Ah ... got it. Absolutely true.

Sorry about that, Dano.

No probs. Can understand since I spelled  "do" instead of "too" by mistake.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 05, 2020, 11:22:25 PM

Have a friend that works in politics for his career primarily as a strategist on voter issues.  He said it best that whomever got handed this crap sandwich was screwed, especially in an election year or because it is an election year.  In his opinion, no way Hillary Clinton risks the economy in an election year and with some of the closest ties between US and China than ever before in our history at stake.  Would our travel with China been shut down at all?  We will never know, but no one will convince me that on March 7th, approximately 8 months before an election with less than 40 deaths in the entire country that she was going to essentially shut down the country.  It would have been an election death wish.

https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/assessing-u-s-china-relations-under-the-obama-administration/

What Trump has failed at it is leading us as a nation through any of this for which he will likely pay.  Some Governors, on both sides have done well, while others on both sides have struggled.  Local leaders

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 06, 2020, 07:31:58 AM

Who could possibly know? 500 strategists.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 06, 2020, 08:55:02 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 05, 2020, 11:22:25 PM

What Trump has failed at it is leading us as a nation through any of this for which he will likely pay.  Some Governors, on both sides have done well, while others on both sides have struggled.

The speculation by a few strategists about a hypothetical situation is nothing but that - speculation.

But at least we agree on the part I highlighted above. He failed...and now it appears he’s going to take his toys and go home.

Cheers, on at least finding some common ground.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 06, 2020, 09:48:25 AM

Vaccine specialist Rick Bright led a research division within the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services until last month — when he says he was ousted as revenge for openly criticizing malaria drug hydroxychloroquine as a coronavirus treatment. While the Trump administration promoted the drug, research has found it could be dangerous for COVID-19 patients. In an 89-page official whistleblower complaint, Bright now says the administration steered profitable drug contracts toward companies with political connections. HHS has disputed Bright’s version of events.

Another "hoax," I'm sure.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on May 06, 2020, 10:44:28 AM

Well this is scary:
https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2020/05/05/nyc-children-hospitalized-with-mysterious-illness/

Quote

“Generally, children present with prolonged high fevers, several days of very high fevers. They can also have very red eyes, very brightly colored lips. One of the hallmarks that we see is what we call a strawberry tongue, which means their tongue is very bright and red,” Dr. Barbot said. “The other symptoms children can have are a rash. They can have swelling of their hands and feet.

“Generally, if the condition is identified early, there is definitive treatment, and there are typically no long-term consequences,” she continued. “However, if the syndrome is not identified early, there can be long-term consequences, most commonly related to ongoing heart problems.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 06, 2020, 11:50:26 AM

When you were young
And your heart was an open book.
You used to say
live and let live
(You know you did, you know you did, you know you did)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 06, 2020, 01:14:37 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on May 06, 2020, 10:44:28 AM

Well this is scary:
https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2020/05/05/nyc-children-hospitalized-with-mysterious-illness/

Wow - that is scary.

Given that the majority either tested positive for COVID or had COVID antibodies, it will be critical to study whether there was a causal relationship. If there was, perhaps it will give pause for those calling for businesses to open faster because young people typically only have "mild" illness.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 06, 2020, 01:30:43 PM

Llama antibodies to fight COVID?

Hoping Llamas Will Become Coronavirus Heroes

Antibodies from Winter, a 4-year-old llama with great eyelashes, have neutralized coronavirus and other infections in lab experiments.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/06/science/llama-coronavirus-antibodies.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

Winter is a 4-year-old chocolate-colored llama with spindly legs, ever-so-slightly askew ears and envy-inducing eyelashes. Some scientists hope she might be an important figure in the fight against the novel coronavirus.

She is not a superpowered camelid. Winter was simply the lucky llama chosen by researchers in Belgium, where she lives, to participate in a series of virus studies involving both SARS and MERS. Finding that her antibodies staved off those infections, the scientists posited that those same antibodies could also neutralize the new virus that causes Covid-19. They were right, and published their results Tuesday in the journal Cell.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 06, 2020, 01:40:50 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 06, 2020, 01:30:43 PM

Llama antibodies to fight COVID?

Hoping Llamas Will Become Coronavirus Heroes

Antibodies from Winter, a 4-year-old llama with great eyelashes, have neutralized coronavirus and other infections in lab experiments.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/06/science/llama-coronavirus-antibodies.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

Winter is a 4-year-old chocolate-colored llama with spindly legs, ever-so-slightly askew ears and envy-inducing eyelashes. Some scientists hope she might be an important figure in the fight against the novel coronavirus.

She is not a superpowered camelid. Winter was simply the lucky llama chosen by researchers in Belgium, where she lives, to participate in a series of virus studies involving both SARS and MERS. Finding that her antibodies staved off those infections, the scientists posited that those same antibodies could also neutralize the new virus that causes Covid-19. They were right, and published their results Tuesday in the journal Cell.

Boy this would be amazing. I guess it makes sense that the animal world could provide some treatments with corona viruses with their propensity to jump across species.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 06, 2020, 01:47:15 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 06, 2020, 01:30:43 PM

Llama antibodies to fight COVID?

Hoping Llamas Will Become Coronavirus Heroes

Antibodies from Winter, a 4-year-old llama with great eyelashes, have neutralized coronavirus and other infections in lab experiments.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/06/science/llama-coronavirus-antibodies.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

Winter is a 4-year-old chocolate-colored llama with spindly legs, ever-so-slightly askew ears and envy-inducing eyelashes. Some scientists hope she might be an important figure in the fight against the novel coronavirus.

She is not a superpowered camelid. Winter was simply the lucky llama chosen by researchers in Belgium, where she lives, to participate in a series of virus studies involving both SARS and MERS. Finding that her antibodies staved off those infections, the scientists posited that those same antibodies could also neutralize the new virus that causes Covid-19. They were right, and published their results Tuesday in the journal Cell.

Honest question:  how many bong rips does it take to say to your research pal "wonder if a f*cking llama could cure Sars, Mers and the rona?"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 06, 2020, 01:48:45 PM

I'm sure there is a scientific explanation, but it sure sounds like there was a night of heavy drinking involved when, around 3:00am, someone said, "You know what we should try? Llama anti-bodies."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 06, 2020, 01:59:19 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 06, 2020, 01:47:15 PM

Honest question:  how many bong rips does it take to say to your research pal "wonder if a f*cking llama could cure Sars, Mers and the rona?"

Quote from: TSmith34 on May 06, 2020, 01:48:45 PM

I'm sure there is a scientific explanation, but it sure sounds like there was a night of heavy drinking involved when, around 3:00am, someone said, "You know what we should try? Llama anti-bodies."

Yeah, whether passing the bong, drinking or both, it seems like good material for a SNL skit or an Onion article.

"Llamas, man! The answer's gotta be llamas!"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 06, 2020, 02:04:44 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 06, 2020, 01:30:43 PM

Llama antibodies to fight COVID?

Hoping Llamas Will Become Coronavirus Heroes

Antibodies from Winter, a 4-year-old llama with great eyelashes, have neutralized coronavirus and other infections in lab experiments.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/06/science/llama-coronavirus-antibodies.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

Winter is a 4-year-old chocolate-colored llama with spindly legs, ever-so-slightly askew ears and envy-inducing eyelashes. Some scientists hope she might be an important figure in the fight against the novel coronavirus.

She is not a superpowered camelid. Winter was simply the lucky llama chosen by researchers in Belgium, where she lives, to participate in a series of virus studies involving both SARS and MERS. Finding that her antibodies staved off those infections, the scientists posited that those same antibodies could also neutralize the new virus that causes Covid-19. They were right, and published their results Tuesday in the journal Cell.

All these efforts fall along the same line as an old post I put up that I thought was very promising. Where Chinese researchers sequenced, and tested all the antibodies they could find in Covid patients, to identify which were best at targeting and preventing infection.

Researchers around the world are leveraging such information to produce monoclonal antibodies in the lab.

The alternative approach is being used here, where you use an animal to produce antibodies against a specific antigen, then again identify which one is most effective. Animals are often used to produce these antibodies. In some cases they can be designed so they simply secrete the antibodies in milk. Sadly in many others, the animals are sacrificed and drained of their blood.

These approaches are old science, but our ability to rapidly identify and scale up production is new. I expect treatments using this approach by September. I think it will be the Chinese that lead on this, unless we significantly relax our safety testing here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 06, 2020, 02:05:53 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 06, 2020, 01:47:15 PM

Honest question:  how many bong rips does it take to say to your research pal "wonder if a f*cking llama could cure Sars, Mers and the rona?"

Like a weekend in Colorado's worth, I imagine.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 06, 2020, 02:16:38 PM

Don't show Trump this article or we'll have people injecting llama blood by the end of the weekend.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 06, 2020, 02:20:15 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 06, 2020, 02:16:38 PM

Don't show Trump this article or we'll have people injecting llama blood by the end of the weekend.

Oh, that's interesting.  I've heard from reliable sources you need to inject it using a turkey baster and cram it way up there it like a suppository.

Fell free to pass on that important information.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 06, 2020, 02:27:45 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 06, 2020, 02:16:38 PM

Don't show Trump this article or we'll have people injecting llama blood by the end of the weekend.

Post of the day.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 06, 2020, 02:54:41 PM

Ready or not, NC is emerging from the lockdown to enter "Phase One" of opening up our economy on Friday.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/coronavirus/article242507756.html?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on May 06, 2020, 04:21:12 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on May 06, 2020, 01:48:45 PM

I'm sure there is a scientific explanation, but it sure sounds like there was a night of heavy drinking involved when, around 3:00am, someone said, "You know what we should try? Llama anti-bodies."

Nah.  Pretty sure he's a Mormon.

(https://66.media.tumblr.com/d5f8a0ad9b491eae15e2710af17c573f/tumblr_p65j5004ZF1s535xbo1_540.gifv)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on May 06, 2020, 06:49:38 PM

Speaking of North Carolina, it would appear Senator Burr's brother-in-law, a Trump appointee, dumped quite a  bit of stock at a similar time just before the crash.


https://www.propublica.org/article/burr-family-stock/amp?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&__twitter_impression=true

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 06, 2020, 07:15:59 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 28, 2020, 05:09:14 PM

Social distancing has helped “flatten the curve” of the coronavirus, but University of Washington public health researchers say the death toll from this wave of the pandemic is forecast to hit about 74,000 in the United States.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article242338406.html?

The researchers with the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation, whose coronavirus model is cited often by the White House and states, increased the prediction for U.S. deaths from about 67,600 in their newest forecast.

The model runs through Aug. 4, but the projected total of 74,073 deaths is reached on July 15. The current model projects no additional deaths between July 15 and Aug. 4.

Institute director Christopher Murray said that if states start opening too soon, the death toll from COVID-19 could be even higher, CBS News reports.

“While most states seem to have passed their epidemic peaks, seven — Hawaii, Mississippi, Texas, Wyoming, Utah, Nebraska, and North Dakota — may be experiencing their peaks now or could be in the coming weeks,” the Institute said.

Confused. Does mean it’s July 15th already? Or are there going to be negative deaths between now and July 15?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 06, 2020, 07:53:25 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on May 06, 2020, 07:15:59 PM

Confused. Does mean it’s July 15th already? Or are there going to be negative deaths between now and July 15?

The numbers that MU82 quoted in his post have been updated. The IHME model now predicts 135,000 deaths nationwide by August 4.

http://www.healthdata.org/news-release/new-ihme-forecast-projects-nearly-135000-covid-19-deaths-us

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 06, 2020, 08:54:04 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 06, 2020, 07:53:25 PM

The numbers that MU82 quoted in his post have been updated. The IHME model now predicts 135,000 deaths nationwide by August 4.

http://www.healthdata.org/news-release/new-ihme-forecast-projects-nearly-135000-covid-19-deaths-us

I do realize that it was clear back when it was originally released those numbers were trash.  And the new numbers have a range of 95,092 to 242,890.  Bold predictions.
It’s less usable than the 5 day hurricane forecast cone.
The low range is stupid.  At the death rate during lockdown, they’d blow through that number in two weeks.  Now with things opening up, possibly sooner.
Unless there is a break through in treatment, a massive contact tracing and testing effort that isn’t even in the planning stages, or the virus mutates into something less deadly, the number will be closer to the high number than the target number.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 06, 2020, 09:18:51 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on May 06, 2020, 08:54:04 PM

I do realize that it was clear back when it was originally released those numbers were trash.  And the new numbers have a range of 95,092 to 242,890.  Bold predictions.
It’s less usable than the 5 day hurricane forecast cone.
The low range is stupid.  At the death rate during lockdown, they’d blow through that number in two weeks.  Now with things opening up, possibly sooner.
Unless there is a break through in treatment, a massive contact tracing and testing effort that isn’t even in the planning stages, or the virus mutates into something less deadly, the number will be closer to the high number than the target number.

Agreed. The low-end number has pretty much always been unrealistically low. It almost seems to assume that ALL spread will stop immediately upon release of the latest update.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on May 06, 2020, 10:05:02 PM

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/06/ny-gov-cuomo-says-its-shocking-most-new-coronavirus-hospitalizations-are-people-staying-home.html

66% of new patients were "staying home."  Brutal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on May 07, 2020, 12:16:33 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on May 06, 2020, 10:05:02 PM

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/06/ny-gov-cuomo-says-its-shocking-most-new-coronavirus-hospitalizations-are-people-staying-home.html

66% of new patients were "staying home."  Brutal.

I think tomorrow i will just stay off the internet.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on May 07, 2020, 12:17:24 AM

Rob Lee
@RALee85
·
4h
The year is 2020. Amidst a global pandemic, Guns N' Roses' Axl Rose says the Secretary of the Treasury and producer of Wonder Woman is "officially an pretty boy." In response, the Executive Producer of the Lego Movie asks what Rose has done for his country with the flag of Liberia.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 07, 2020, 05:42:12 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on May 06, 2020, 10:05:02 PM

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/06/ny-gov-cuomo-says-its-shocking-most-new-coronavirus-hospitalizations-are-people-staying-home.html

66% of new patients were "staying home."  Brutal.

This isn’t shocking unless they were truly isolating.  I figure the grocery is my best chance to get it even when ‘staying home’.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on May 07, 2020, 05:44:18 AM

 fwiw-eggs have been used for over 70 years to incubate both live attenuated and non-attenuated influenza vaccines

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/how-fluvaccine-made.htm

unfortunately sometimes too much information for certain "sectors" of our population can lead to unintended consequences.  some very revealing and sad.  usually from the "hold my beer and watch this" crowd

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/how-fluvaccine-made.htm

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 07, 2020, 07:38:09 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on May 07, 2020, 05:44:18 AM

fwiw-eggs have been used for over 70 years to incubate both live attenuated and non-attenuated influenza vaccines

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/how-fluvaccine-made.htm

unfortunately sometimes too much information for certain "sectors" of our population can lead to unintended consequences.  some very revealing and sad.  usually from the "hold my beer and watch this" crowd

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/how-fluvaccine-made.htm

(https://media.giphy.com/media/glmRyiSI3v5E4/giphy.gif)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 07, 2020, 07:45:09 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on May 06, 2020, 10:05:02 PM

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/06/ny-gov-cuomo-says-its-shocking-most-new-coronavirus-hospitalizations-are-people-staying-home.html

66% of new patients were "staying home."  Brutal.

Bad news, of course.  Problem is that in apartment buildings if one person gets infected there is no lock down of the building.  China did this, and of course it worked.  Can't and wouldn't work here.  That is how this spreads.  One person sick, spreads it to their family and they don't show symptoms for a few days, and by that time a lot  of the common areas in the building are causing spread among the rest of the tenants.

This virus is going to continue to be brutal in tight spaces that aren't cleaned and disinfected daily.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 07, 2020, 07:47:30 AM

Science-based reopening guidance? Absolutely not!

https://apnews.com/7a00d5fba3249e573d2ead4bd323a4d4

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 07, 2020, 07:56:24 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on May 07, 2020, 07:47:30 AM

Science-based reopening guidance? Absolutely not!

https://apnews.com/7a00d5fba3249e573d2ead4bd323a4d4

The lack of leadership at the federal level, with the obvious goal of absolving the President of any responsibility, is stunning.  History is not going to treat this well. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 07, 2020, 08:03:30 AM

This partially answers goooooo's question about where the CDC has been.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on May 07, 2020, 08:09:59 AM

This is a fantastic thread:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1258166483085033472.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 07, 2020, 08:23:05 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on May 07, 2020, 08:09:59 AM

This is a fantastic thread:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1258166483085033472.html

The last two are exactly what I have been saying for weeks:

As @davidfrum told me, it’s impossible to get an A in managing a pandemic. There are no silver bullets. But it’s really not hard to get a B. Listen to experts. Create a plan. Show empathy. Stick with it. It’s the best you can be expected to do.

Our expectations are simple.

The truth, no matter how hard.
To know that our safety matters.
A plan which uses all our tools & best thinking that we stick with.
Candor in discussing the tough trade offs.

We’re not getting that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 07, 2020, 08:29:54 AM

BTW, I should also say that after feeling fairly optimistic last week, I have done a 180 this week.  There is no coordinated plan.  More and more people are losing their jobs.  There are mini outbreaks all over where people are working in close contact with one another.  Conspiracy theories are being tossed around on social media undermining any sense of unity in this effort.  Government disfunction seems at an all time high. 

We seem to be pinning all of our hopes on hitting a home run with a limited use in September.

Not to go full JB here, but it seems like things are going to get a lot worse before they get better.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 07, 2020, 08:31:21 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on May 07, 2020, 08:09:59 AM

This is a fantastic thread:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1258166483085033472.html

https://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-is-coming-for-the-red-states-too-164317490.html

Don't worry, It'll be a big deal in the weeks ahead when small towns have to deal with it.  We will hear all about the 'left behind' America, because NOW its affecting them.  Just like my idiot cousin who was at the protests in Madison a couple of weeks back, it isn't real for them until it actually affects them on a personal level.  The only thing she is missing out on now is going to work, going to church, going to the store, and her kids are out of school.  Those things personally affect her.  Not the virus.  To her, it still isn't real.  Just another one of the hopeless, until it is in her house.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 07, 2020, 08:36:14 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on May 07, 2020, 08:09:59 AM

This is a fantastic thread:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1258166483085033472.html

Superb. One of the best things I have read on the situation in all these weeks. Thanks for posting.

Quote from: jesmu84 on May 07, 2020, 07:47:30 AM

Science-based reopening guidance? Absolutely not!

https://apnews.com/7a00d5fba3249e573d2ead4bd323a4d4

This was interesting, too, and very sad.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 07, 2020, 08:38:05 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 07, 2020, 08:29:54 AM

BTW, I should also say that after feeling fairly optimistic last week, I have done a 180 this week.  There is no coordinated plan.  More and more people are losing their jobs.  There are mini outbreaks all over where people are working in close contact with one another.  Conspiracy theories are being tossed around on social media undermining any sense of unity in this effort.  Government disfunction seems at an all time high. 

We seem to be pinning all of our hopes on hitting a home run with a limited use in September.

Not to go full JB here, but it seems like things are going to get a lot worse before they get better.

They will get worse.  Keep your food stocks up, because the thing I've been worried about for some time is starting to happen.  There are cracks in the food chain.

We have an absolute VOID of leadership at the top, and frankly, I don't know how we can make it to November like this.

Trump and Pence not wearing masks just tells their followers that they don't take this seriously.  So why should the followers?  Mixed messaging from the top is costing lives, and time.  Every day these jokers don't take this seriously and don't lead by example, people will die. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 07, 2020, 08:40:34 AM

Quote from: tower912 on May 07, 2020, 08:03:30 AM

This partially answers goooooo's question about where the CDC has been.

Wanting - trying - to do their job...but muzzled by the #alternativefacts administration.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 07, 2020, 08:46:31 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 07, 2020, 08:38:05 AM

They will get worse.  Keep your food stocks up, because the thing I've been worried about for some time is starting to happen.  There are cracks in the food chain.

We have an absolute VOID of leadership at the top, and frankly, I don't know how we can make it to November like this.

Trump and Pence not wearing masks just tells their followers that they don't take this seriously.  So why should the followers?  Mixed messaging from the top is costing lives, and time.  Every day these jokers don't take this seriously and don't lead by example, people will die.

Pence at least apologized and said he should have worn the mask at the Mayo Clinic, which leads me to believe that next time he will.

A couple days after the Vice Hypocrite's apology, though, President Pandemic didn't wear one -- at an effen mask factory, while the Guns N Roses version of "Live and Let Die" blared in the background during his tour.

I mean, an award-winning screenwriter couldn't make this shyte up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 07, 2020, 08:53:52 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 07, 2020, 08:31:21 AM

https://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-is-coming-for-the-red-states-too-164317490.html

Don't worry, It'll be a big deal in the weeks ahead when small towns have to deal with it.  We will hear all about the 'left behind' America, because NOW its affecting them.  Just like my idiot cousin who was at the protests in Madison a couple of weeks back, it isn't real for them until it actually affects them on a personal level.  The only thing she is missing out on now is going to work, going to church, going to the store, and her kids are out of school.  Those things personally affect her.  Not the virus.  To her, it still isn't real.  Just another one of the hopeless, until it is in her house.

Yep. Every time I see a "Trump supporter" interviewed, I hear talk of a hoax, an overreaction, "inflated" numbers, just the "flu."

But as the numbers in rural states continue to grow amid outbreaks around meatpacking plants in rural places like Southwestern Minnesota, South Dakota, Indiana and Iowa, people will have their "come to Jesus" moment. And those numbers will grow dramatically, as plants that were recently shut down due to outbreaks are already reopening....

https://www.twincities.com/2020/05/04/coronavirus-in-minnesota-worthington-pork-plant-to-partially-reopen-this-week/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 07, 2020, 08:56:32 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 07, 2020, 08:23:05 AM

The last two are exactly what I have been saying for weeks:

As @davidfrum told me, it’s impossible to get an A in managing a pandemic. There are no silver bullets. But it’s really not hard to get a B. Listen to experts. Create a plan. Show empathy. Stick with it. It’s the best you can be expected to do.

Our expectations are simple.

The truth, no matter how hard.
To know that our safety matters.
A plan which uses all our tools & best thinking that we stick with.
Candor in discussing the tough trade offs.

We’re not getting that.

We're only getting this from a number of governors but we really need someone to connect the regional partnership dots many of the govs have put in place.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 07, 2020, 09:37:14 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 07, 2020, 08:56:32 AM

We're only getting this from a number of governors but we really need someone to connect the regional partnership dots many of the govs have put in place.

Regrettably, some of the regional "partnerships" disappeared as quickly as they were formed. There was a midwest partnership including WI, MN, IL, IN and MI...but we have already seen governors ease restrictions on a state-by-state basis. And we are starting to see the effects. MN had the lowest infection rate in the country a few weeks back, and Walz started reopening things while Evers kept things closed in WI. Now MN's per capita rate is essentially the same as WI's...and with the daily rates in MN now double those in WI, I suspect we will pass them today.

And the article below shows very real examples of the effects of reopening....

States moving forward with reopening are seeing increases in new coronavirus cases

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/05/05/states-moving-forward-with-reopening-are-seeing-increases-new-coronavirus-cases/

States that expect to keep restrictions in place aimed at encouraging social distancing — including most of the seven states above — have seen drops in the number of new daily cases relative to a month ago. States that have already begun to scale back those measures have seen a rapid increase in daily case totals relative to one month ago.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 07, 2020, 10:47:59 AM

There are going to be more cases as more are tested and things open back up.

Somewhere along the way, the narrative change from flatten the curve to any new cases are the worst thing ever and we need to stay closed until there are no new cases.  The latter is not sustainable.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 07, 2020, 10:56:07 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 07, 2020, 10:47:59 AM

There are going to be more cases as more are tested and things open back up.

Somewhere along the way, the narrative change from flatten the curve to any new cases are the worst thing ever and we need to stay closed until there are no new cases.  The latter is not sustainable.

We agree. I don't even like the talk about cases. There is more and more testing. Naturally, there will be more and more cases.

Now, if we get to hospitalizations and, especially, deaths increasing significantly, then that's a whole 'nother can of worms. Then it's a matter of how much death can we justify to keep the economy open -- and frankly I'd be surprised if we as an American people don't end up justifying a shyte-ton of it.

Once the economy is mostly open, it will be difficult, if not impossible, to return to a lockdown mind-set. Months before an election, we know national leadership will resist it at all costs. And as we grow more "used to" deaths, the majority of the populace probably will resist it, too.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on May 07, 2020, 12:10:50 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on May 06, 2020, 10:05:02 PM

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/06/ny-gov-cuomo-says-its-shocking-most-new-coronavirus-hospitalizations-are-people-staying-home.html

66% of new patients were "staying home."  Brutal.

It's concerning, but to be fair, I wouldn't be surprised if the level of honesty in answering that question is probably similar to when the doctor is taking your medical history and asks you how many alcoholic beverages per week you drink.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 07, 2020, 12:13:56 PM

Trump says doing too much coronavirus testing makes the US 'look bad' as he pushes for the country to reopen
https://news.yahoo.com/trump-says-doing-too-much-151141414.html

*President Donald Trump thinks that too much coronavirus testing makes the US "look bad."

*"The media likes to say we have the most cases, but we do, by far, the most testing. If we did very little testing, we wouldn't have the most cases. So, in a way, by doing all of this testing, we make ourselves look bad," Trump said on Wednesday.

*The US still lags behind other countries in terms of the share of the population tested for coronavirus.

*Public health experts, including Dr. Anthony Fauci, have warned against reopening the country and easing coronavirus restrictions without a robust testing system in place.

This unnatural carnal knowledgeer makes my head hurt.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 07, 2020, 12:25:54 PM

Let's bookmark this prediction to see if it plays out. Yesterday, I think, Trump had the chance to publicly make this argument when asked about the dearth count and he didn't (I think he said "they are what they are"). So we'll see.

Trump and some top aides question accuracy of virus death toll
https://www.axios.com/trump-coronavirus-death-toll-d8ba60a4-316b-4d1e-8595-74970c15fb34.html

"President Trump has complained to advisers about the way coronavirus deaths are being calculated, suggesting the real numbers are actually lower — and a number of his senior aides share this view, according to sources with direct knowledge.

What's next: A senior administration official said he expects the president to begin publicly questioning the death toll as it closes in on his predictions for the final death count and damages him politically."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 07, 2020, 12:43:16 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on May 07, 2020, 12:25:54 PM

Let's bookmark this prediction to see if it plays out. Yesterday, I think, Trump had the chance to publicly make this argument when asked about the dearth count and he didn't (I think he said "they are what they are"). So we'll see.

Trump and some top aides question accuracy of virus death toll
https://www.axios.com/trump-coronavirus-death-toll-d8ba60a4-316b-4d1e-8595-74970c15fb34.html

"President Trump has complained to advisers about the way coronavirus deaths are being calculated, suggesting the real numbers are actually lower — and a number of his senior aides share this view, according to sources with direct knowledge.

What's next: A senior administration official said he expects the president to begin publicly questioning the death toll as it closes in on his predictions for the final death count and damages him politically."

And yet doctors, infectious disease experts and epidemiologists think we actually are significantly under-counting COVID-19 deaths.

Hmmm ... who to believe ... highly trained professionals who have studied these things for decades and have made them their lives' work ... or a reality TV host who is desperate to win an election? It's a difficult choice, for sure.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on May 07, 2020, 12:44:13 PM

I see we have hit page #200 for this thread.

I really hope to have this less than 400 pages when it is all said and done.

And if this thread surpasses the recruiting thread # of pages,  JayBee's  #LastDays  may be the correct hashtag for all of us.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 07, 2020, 12:45:19 PM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on May 07, 2020, 12:44:13 PM

I see we have hit page #200 for this thread.

I really hope to have this less than 400 pages when it is all said and done.

And if this thread surpasses the recruiting thread # of pages,  JayBee's  #LastDays  may be the correct hashtag for all of us.

Bump your posts per page up, kin.  I'm only on page 100.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on May 07, 2020, 12:48:55 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 07, 2020, 12:45:19 PM

Bump your posts per page up, kin.  I'm only on page 100.

Fair.  Let's call it number of posts then...

If  # of posts in COVID thread > # of posts in Recruting thread,  THEN  = #LASTDAYS

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 07, 2020, 12:49:19 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 07, 2020, 12:43:16 PM

Hmmm ... who to believe ... highly trained professionals who have studied these things for decades and have made them their lives' work ... or a reality TV host who is desperate to win an election? It's a difficult choice, for sure.

To reiterate, Trump had the chance to introduce this yesterday when asked about the death count and he didn't. So we'll see if this (gaslighting the body count) becomes a thing or not.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 07, 2020, 12:51:09 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 07, 2020, 10:47:59 AM

There are going to be more cases as more are tested and things open back up.

Somewhere along the way, the narrative change from flatten the curve to any new cases are the worst thing ever and we need to stay closed until there are no new cases.  The latter is not sustainable.

No, flattening the curve  doesn't mean it is flat to reopen, it means that it should be going down (14 days by the white house's own guidance)
But feel free to keep posting things that are completely false, it helps so much!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 07, 2020, 12:54:57 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on May 07, 2020, 12:10:50 PM

It's concerning, but to be fair, I wouldn't be surprised if the level of honesty in answering that question is probably similar to when the doctor is taking your medical history and asks you how many alcoholic beverages per week you drink.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

There is this meme going around about the Tiger King that says "Seeing people shocked by the Tiger King reminds me that not everyone grew up in Florida."

Could be "Doctors shocked by the number of alcoholic beverages you drink reminds me that not everyone went to Marquette."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 07, 2020, 01:30:34 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on May 07, 2020, 12:10:50 PM

It's concerning, but to be fair, I wouldn't be surprised if the level of honesty in answering that question is probably similar to when the doctor is taking your medical history and asks you how many alcoholic beverages per week you drink.

And for most people living in NYC proper, even "staying at home" might include riding up and down an elevator used by 1,000 other people every day to get the mail.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 07, 2020, 01:34:39 PM

Parts of Asia that relaxed restrictions without a resurgence in coronavirus cases did these three things

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/07/coronavirus-lessons-learned-in-asia-show-us-is-at-risk-of-a-resurge-in-cases-as-states-reopen-businesses.html

"South Korea and Hong Kong successfully relaxed pandemic restrictions without having another rise in cases by data sharing, using targeted testing and contact tracing.

The varying results of efforts across Asia to contain the virus and reopen society present policy options and perhaps lessons for countries behind on the outbreak’s timeline.

Public health specialists who spoke with CNBC said they’re not confident U.S. officials are taking note of what’s working and not working in Asia."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 07, 2020, 02:07:54 PM

Hydroxychloroquine fails to help hospitalized coronavirus patients in US funded study

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/07/hydroxychloroquine-fails-to-help-hospitalized-coronavirus-patients-in-us-government-funded-study.html

Hydroxychloroquine, a decades-old malaria drug touted by President Donald Trump, didn’t appear to help hospitalized patients with Covid-19, according to a new observational study published Thursday in the New England Journal of Medicine.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 07, 2020, 02:37:33 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on May 07, 2020, 12:51:09 PM

No, flattening the curve  doesn't mean it is flat to reopen, it means that it should be going down (14 days by the white house's own guidance)
But feel free to keep posting things that are completely false, it helps so much!

What did i state that was false?  I think you misunderstood my comment.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 07, 2020, 02:46:39 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on May 07, 2020, 12:25:54 PM

Let's bookmark this prediction to see if it plays out. Yesterday, I think, Trump had the chance to publicly make this argument when asked about the dearth count and he didn't (I think he said "they are what they are"). So we'll see.

Close: "It is what it is."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 07, 2020, 02:48:22 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 07, 2020, 10:47:59 AM

There are going to be more cases as more are tested and things open back up.

Somewhere along the way, the narrative change from flatten the curve to any new cases are the worst thing ever and we need to stay closed until there are no new cases.  The latter is not sustainable.

100% correct in my opinion.  It is also why I am convinced it doesn't matter who is in charge, we get to the same outcome in a country like ours. With our freedoms, our economy reliance, no other outcome.  Now, there was an article in the Times earlier this week that we are paying for our freedoms right now, almost implying that we have too much freedom.  No doubt there are some that feel this way, but that is also going to be a tough sell in this country to turn those over. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 07, 2020, 02:55:51 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 07, 2020, 02:37:33 PM

What did i state that was false?  I think you misunderstood my comment.

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 07, 2020, 10:47:59 AM

There are going to be more cases as more are tested and things open back up.

Somewhere along the way, the narrative change from flatten the curve to any new cases are the worst thing ever and we need to stay closed until there are no new cases.  The latter is not sustainable.

No one is saying we need NO new cases. That is an out and out falsehood. People that are saying it is too soon to open are saying that the original guidance of 14 days with DECREASING new cases is what needs to happen.

Show me one government official or heck even a post here that says we need NO new cases. That was a flat out thing you made up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 07, 2020, 03:08:38 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on May 07, 2020, 02:55:51 PM

No one is saying we need NO new cases. That is an out and out falsehood. People that are saying it is too soon to open are saying that the original guidance of 14 days with DECREASING new cases is what needs to happen.

Absolutely correct.

As I (and many others) have been saying here for weeks, I would like to see the three-phase reopening that starts with:

* a 14-day downward trajectory of cases;
* sufficient testing for all symptomatic individuals; and
* sufficient contact tracing infrastructure to quickly track down anyone who had contact with people who test positive.

Exactly as Trump promoted for about 15 minutes....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on May 07, 2020, 03:15:18 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 07, 2020, 03:08:38 PM

Absolutely correct.

As I (and many others) have been saying here for weeks, I would like to see the three-phase reopening that starts with:

* a 14-day downward trajectory of cases;
* sufficient testing for all symptomatic individuals; and
* sufficient contact tracing infrastructure to quickly track down anyone who had contact with people who test positive.

Exactly as Trump promoted for about 15 minutes....

Cannot say a 14-day downward trajectory of cases it needs to be a downward trend of percentage of cases.  I think that is what gets everyone confused.  Have to look at percentage cause the numbers of tests have increased

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 07, 2020, 03:21:03 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on May 07, 2020, 03:15:18 PM

Cannot say a 14-day downward trajectory of cases it needs to be a downward trend of percentage of cases.  I think that is what gets everyone confused.  Have to look at percentage cause the numbers of tests have increased

That would be a reasonable approach too...but it has been rendered moot by the fact that many states are already reopening without even that. And I haven't seen anything to indicate that any state meets the other two criteria for testing and contact tracing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 07, 2020, 03:40:10 PM

Battle of Fox News personalities ...

Viewers of coronavirus denier Sean Hannity ended up sicker and deader than viewers of coronavirus acknowledger Tucker Carlson.

https://www.npr.org/local/309/2020/05/04/849109486/study-finds-more-c-o-v-i-d-19-cases-among-viewers-of-fox-news-host-who-downplayed-pandemic?fbclid=IwAR2WCVZXP3AYyJoCSDeupYgHWzhswinQF3iaA_2ER0Js-oBWgGu67dzWjIg

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 07, 2020, 04:48:48 PM

I’m only one opinion, but it makes me feel good that my state has some objective targets we are working towards....  Is everyone else getting this type of info locally (plans, numbers, targets around PPE/hospitalization)?

 https://www.courant.com/coronavirus/hc-news-coronavirus-daily-updates-0507-20200507-7jdxhsdk2jhenmssfeqlznty3e-story.html (https://www.courant.com/coronavirus/hc-news-coronavirus-daily-updates-0507-20200507-7jdxhsdk2jhenmssfeqlznty3e-story.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on May 07, 2020, 04:49:53 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 07, 2020, 03:21:03 PM

That would be a reasonable approach too...but it has been rendered moot by the fact that many states are already reopening without even that. And I haven't seen anything to indicate that any state meets the other two criteria for testing and contact tracing.

agree left up for people to be smart now

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 07, 2020, 05:17:03 PM

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article242563266.html?

Caitlin Rivers, researcher at Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security, testified before the House of Representatives Committee on Appropriations on Wednesday. Rivers said that states didn’t meet the requirements for testing, contact tracing, and enough personal protective equipment for health care workers to reopen.

“Many states are in the process of reopening, or are considering doing so, despite inadequate capacities to do diagnostic testing, contact tracing, and insufficient supplies of personal protective equipment,” she said. “Other states not yet reopening are looking ahead to those decisions, as we all are, to try to understand how and when that transition to reopening should unfold.”

“It is clear to me that we are in a critical moment in this fight,” she continued. “We risk complacency in accepting the preventable deaths of 2,000 Americans each day. We risk complacency in accepting that our health care workers do not have what they need to do their jobs safely. And we risk complacency in recognizing that without continued vigilance in slowing transmission, we will again create the conditions that led to us being the worst-affected country in the world.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 07, 2020, 08:00:04 PM

US sending ventilators overseas to help with covid

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-is-giving-ventilators-to-russia-putin-for-coronavirus-response-2020-5

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 07, 2020, 09:08:21 PM

That is Christian of us.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 07, 2020, 10:20:08 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on May 07, 2020, 03:15:18 PM

Cannot say a 14-day downward trajectory of cases it needs to be a downward trend of percentage of cases.  I think that is what gets everyone confused.  Have to look at percentage cause the numbers of tests have increased

How about a 14 day decrease in deaths, or hospitalizations?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 07, 2020, 11:12:40 PM

Average age of those that have died in the US is 75 per CDC.   Massachusetts the avg age of victims is 82.  Tennessee it is 72.  New York 73.  Not all states are reporting age of the victims in their public data.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 08, 2020, 07:23:38 AM

Quote from: injuryBug on May 07, 2020, 03:15:18 PM

Cannot say a 14-day downward trajectory of cases it needs to be a downward trend of percentage of cases.  I think that is what gets everyone confused.  Have to look at percentage cause the numbers of tests have increased

Connecticut has been using a 14-day downward trajectory in hospitalizations.
Frenns - did I get that right?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 08, 2020, 07:50:09 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 07, 2020, 04:48:48 PM

I’m only one opinion, but it makes me feel good that my state has some objective targets we are working towards....  Is everyone else getting this type of info locally (plans, numbers, targets around PPE/hospitalization)?

 https://www.courant.com/coronavirus/hc-news-coronavirus-daily-updates-0507-20200507-7jdxhsdk2jhenmssfeqlznty3e-story.html (https://www.courant.com/coronavirus/hc-news-coronavirus-daily-updates-0507-20200507-7jdxhsdk2jhenmssfeqlznty3e-story.html)

Connecticut provided info has been excellent.
I've been getting daily emails from Senator Chris Murphy and my State Senator.  And they always have details from our governor including specific targets and specific information.  My kids are happy to hear that summer camps can open June 29 with specific guidelines to be released on May 15.  They were both hoping to have jobs this summer.  They even released a phased-in plan up to Sept 1 for how universities and colleges can reopen in the state.  (The work group was led by retired Yale President Richard Levin.)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on May 08, 2020, 08:16:06 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 07, 2020, 11:12:40 PM

Average age of those that have died in the US is 75 per CDC.   Massachusetts the avg age of victims is 82.  Tennessee it is 72.  New York 73.  Not all states are reporting age of the victims in their public data.

And your point is?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 08, 2020, 08:52:03 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 08, 2020, 07:23:38 AM

Connecticut has been using a 14-day downward trajectory in hospitalizations.
Frenns - did I get that right?

Yes that is a key metric.  Another one I learned about yesterday is that they want the positive percentage on testing to be way lower.  Part of the issue is more tests needed, but the other part is that people still think you have to be sick to get a test.  They are trying to get the word out that they want more people tested. 

A national issue is that CT foresees an issue with testing supplies (swaps, etc).  But...Yale has pioneered a spit test in the hospital that they think can be scaled.  If so it lowers PPE and testing equipment needed and can get us to the numbers desired. 

Interesting progress and feels like Gov. Lamont is trying to address this systemically -- most encouraged I've been in a while.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 08, 2020, 08:55:00 AM

Quote from: jficke13 on May 08, 2020, 08:16:06 AM

And your point is?

We don't need no stinkin' codgers in this country. Screw 'em!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 08, 2020, 09:21:58 AM

Quote from: MU82 on May 08, 2020, 08:55:00 AM

We don't need no stinkin' codgers in this country. Screw 'em!

Old Lives Matter?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 08, 2020, 10:24:56 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 08, 2020, 09:21:58 AM

Old Lives Matter?

Like this?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 08, 2020, 10:38:14 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 08, 2020, 10:24:56 AM

Like this?

One day, it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on May 08, 2020, 10:44:34 AM

https://twitter.com/jimmykimmellive/status/1258771361054355456

Video of Mike Pence delivering ppe, struggling to lift the large boxes.....when told on a hot mic the boxes were empty, Pence asked to do so anyway for the cameras.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on May 08, 2020, 10:56:38 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 08, 2020, 07:50:09 AM

Connecticut provided info has been excellent.
I've been getting daily emails from Senator Chris Murphy and my State Senator.  And they always have details from our governor including specific targets and specific information.  My kids are happy to hear that summer camps can open June 29 with specific guidelines to be released on May 15.  They were both hoping to have jobs this summer.  They even released a phased-in plan up to Sept 1 for how universities and colleges can reopen in the state.  (The work group was led by retired Yale President Richard Levin.)

great to hear hopefully WI can work together and come up with a plan

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 08, 2020, 12:02:14 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on May 08, 2020, 10:44:34 AM

https://twitter.com/jimmykimmellive/status/1258771361054355456

Video of Mike Pence delivering ppe, struggling to lift the large boxes.....when told on a hot mic the boxes were empty, Pence asked to do so anyway for the cameras.

There's a lot of cuts to this video. No doubt some of the boxes were empty and it was 100% a PR stunt.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 08, 2020, 12:32:51 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on May 08, 2020, 10:44:34 AM

https://twitter.com/jimmykimmellive/status/1258771361054355456

Video of Mike Pence delivering ppe, struggling to lift the large boxes.....when told on a hot mic the boxes were empty, Pence asked to do so anyway for the cameras.

Selectively edited by kimmel.  Fake news

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on May 08, 2020, 12:39:32 PM

A lot of the success the NZ prime minister had was in communicating directly and honestly with New Zealanders. Nice to see someone in the US has been able to do the same. I hope the rest of the populace feels the same way.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lighthouse 84 on May 08, 2020, 02:10:53 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 08, 2020, 12:32:51 PM

Selectively edited by kimmel.  Fake news

As if that will prevent people from posting the edited clip anyway....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 08, 2020, 02:18:42 PM

The misinformation is bad. But as with any comedian, you aren't going to them for legit news. If CNN or MSNBC etc posted that then I think that'd be really disconcerting

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 08, 2020, 02:34:05 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on May 08, 2020, 02:18:42 PM

The misinformation is bad. But as with any comedian, you aren't going to them for legit news. If CNN or MSNBC etc posted that then I think that'd be really disconcerting

Problem is, blue checkmark journalists are sharing it, including Andrea Mitchell and Indianapolis Star.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 08, 2020, 02:40:34 PM

Quote from: jficke13 on May 08, 2020, 08:16:06 AM

And your point is?

Latest statistics, but members have already spun it to their whims.  I have relatives that fit these age groups.  My wife and I are in the next group down, but still at risk vs younger people.

Everyone be safe.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 08, 2020, 03:54:07 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 08, 2020, 02:34:05 PM

Problem is, blue checkmark journalists are sharing it, including Andrea Mitchell and Indianapolis Star.

 that is a problem. Those late night shows are great for getting young people interested in the issues but you have to investigate yourself to see if something is legit, overblown, edited, etc.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 08, 2020, 05:05:19 PM

Post got it right


 https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/05/08/jimmy-kimmels-false-claim-that-pence-carried-empty-boxes (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/05/08/jimmy-kimmels-false-claim-that-pence-carried-empty-boxes)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 08, 2020, 05:19:24 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on May 08, 2020, 03:54:07 PM

that is a problem. Those late night shows are great for getting young people interested in the issues but you have to investigate yourself to see if something is legit, overblown, edited, etc.

Agreed. Anyone who uses Kimmel or Colbert for their news is not getting the news.

IMHO, the best way to get free written news without partisan slant is through AP news. It is dead center in the media bias reviews, and gets consistently high scores for factual accuracy.

Other good and consistently neutral options are BBC, Bloomberg, WSJ and PBS. Unfortunately, Bloomberg and WSJ are pretty pricey.

NYT and WaPo are generally great in terms of factual accuracy, but their perspective tends to be a bit slanted.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 08, 2020, 06:16:10 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 08, 2020, 05:19:24 PM

Agreed. Anyone who uses Kimmel or Colbert for their news is not getting the news.

IMHO, the best way to get free written news without partisan slant is through AP news. It is dead center in the media bias reviews, and gets consistently high scores for factual accuracy.

Other good and consistently neutral options are BBC, Bloomberg, WSJ and PBS. Unfortunately, Bloomberg and WSJ are pretty pricey.

NYT and WaPo are generally great in terms of factual accuracy, but their perspective tends to be a bit slanted.

(https://www.adfontesmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Media-Bias-Chart_4.0_Standard_License-min.jpg)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 08, 2020, 06:22:46 PM

I’m happy to see what I read is very close to the top.  Except the New York post.  That is just fantastic newsie entertainment. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warrior2008 on May 08, 2020, 07:56:25 PM

 :(

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 08, 2020, 05:19:24 PM

Agreed. Anyone who uses Kimmel or Colbert for their news is not getting the news.

IMHO, the best way to get free written news without partisan slant is through AP news. It is dead center in the media bias reviews, and gets consistently high scores for factual accuracy.

Other good and consistently neutral options are BBC, Bloomberg, WSJ and PBS. Unfortunately, Bloomberg and WSJ are pretty pricey.

NYT and WaPo are generally great in terms of factual accuracy, but their perspective tends to be a bit slanted.

BBC and the WSJ are my go to along with CNBC during the day if I'm watching TV.

Jimmy Kimmel has long been a giant tool and the least funny of any of the late night guys(just my opinion).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 08, 2020, 10:39:11 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 08, 2020, 02:34:05 PM

Problem is, blue checkmark journalists are sharing it, including Andrea Mitchell and Indianapolis Star.

Andrea Mitchel has as much sundown syndrome as our president.  But are they sharing it as it some sort of fact?  Or because it's funny?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on May 09, 2020, 07:57:00 AM

Says something about some posters who  have posted more about a Jimmy Kimmel bit, than barrage of daily lies coming from people in power who actually matter.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HouWarrior on May 09, 2020, 08:00:48 AM

ZFB thanks for the chart. My impression is this is pretty well done.

Hopefully I am not agreeing with its results just because all my go tos (incl  my no 1 go to, AP , ) are in good spots.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on May 09, 2020, 08:05:06 AM

Roy Horn dead at 75 from Covid-19

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/08/us/roy-horn-of-siegfried-and-roy-dies/index.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 09, 2020, 08:22:23 AM

Quote from: warriorchick on May 09, 2020, 08:05:06 AM

Roy Horn dead at 75 from Covid-19

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/08/us/roy-horn-of-siegfried-and-roy-dies/index.html

::)  CNN

"Related Article: Mantecore, the white tiger that attacked during Siegfried & Roy show, dies."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 09, 2020, 08:51:27 AM

Hey food store workers are no longer heros!  Progress??

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/05/say-goodbye-to-hero-pay-kroger-tells-workers.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 09, 2020, 10:33:53 AM

Quote from: reinko on May 09, 2020, 07:57:00 AM

Says something about some posters who  have posted more about a Jimmy Kimmel bit, than barrage of daily lies coming from people in power who actually matter.

Hardly surprising, given that our emperor regularly repeats the Stalinist rant that "the media is the enemy of the people." Meanwhile, he has told hundreds of lies about this coronavirus alone. That's above and beyond the thousands of other lies he's told over the last 4 years.

But yeah ... Jimmy Kimmel is evil.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 09, 2020, 10:42:24 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 07, 2020, 11:12:40 PM

Average age of those that have died in the US is 75 per CDC.   Massachusetts the avg age of victims is 82.  Tennessee it is 72.  New York 73.  Not all states are reporting age of the victims in their public data.

Once a person has reached age 75, his/her average life expectancy is another 11 years. Many of those people are very fit, especially for somebody that age. Some are still freakin' working.

My parents were still playing tennis well into their 70s. My father-in-law worked until he was 84, still living by himself at 89, and is still in decent shape at 94.

Obviously, many 75+ are not in good health, but the notion that these folks are "disposable" is sickening.

Not saying you were insinuating that, WD/chicos/hoopaloop.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 09, 2020, 10:43:10 AM

The good new is that the White House is embracing extensive testing and contact tracing.   OK, only for White House staff, their assistants, and the secret service around them, but you have to start somewhere

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 09, 2020, 10:49:19 AM

Quote from: tower912 on May 09, 2020, 10:43:10 AM

The good new is that the White House is embracing extensive testing and contact tracing.   OK, only for White House staff, their assistants, and the secret service around them, but you have to start somewhere

NBA teams are able to test asymptomatic players and employees so that’s good.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on May 09, 2020, 11:14:09 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 08, 2020, 02:40:34 PM

Latest statistics, but members have already spun it to their whims.  I have relatives that fit these age groups.  My wife and I are in the next group down, but still at risk vs younger people.

Everyone be safe.

That's not a point.

It's cool though, we can see your insinuations. It's smart that you use an alias. I wouldn't want to put my name to those opinions either.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 09, 2020, 01:32:30 PM

Cautionary tales about reopening:

Reopenings bring new cases in S. Korea, virus fears in Italy

https://apnews.com/fce9ea63c7c4199e4ff39ddd54d3944e

South Korea’s capital closed down more than 2,100 bars and other nightspots Saturday because of a new cluster of coronavirus infections, Germany scrambled to contain fresh outbreaks at slaughterhouses, and Italian authorities worried that people were getting too friendly at cocktail hour during the country’s first weekend of eased restrictions.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 09, 2020, 01:59:20 PM

Quote from: jficke13 on May 09, 2020, 11:14:09 AM

That's not a point.

It's cool though, we can see your insinuations. It's smart that you use an alias. I wouldn't want to put my name to those opinions either.

I made no insinuation at all nor would I. I’m a pro life Democrat, I value human life.  My position is to protect the fragile parts of society whether that is the unborn or the old and weak, especially with this pandemic where they are more vulnerable than others. 

Not sure why you went there as nothing in any of my messages would ever lead you to that conclusion.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 09, 2020, 02:05:23 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 08, 2020, 05:19:24 PM

Agreed. Anyone who uses Kimmel or Colbert for their news is not getting the news.

IMHO, the best way to get free written news without partisan slant is through AP news. It is dead center in the media bias reviews, and gets consistently high scores for factual accuracy.

Other good and consistently neutral options are BBC, Bloomberg, WSJ and PBS. Unfortunately, Bloomberg and WSJ are pretty pricey.

NYT and WaPo are generally great in terms of factual accuracy, but their perspective tends to be a bit slanted.

The problem is people do get their information there, and blue check journalists sharing this legitimizes it.  We cannot make claims that potus says false things and people follow it when others are sharing false information too.

Worse, as Bill Maher said on HBO a few weeks ago, when this happens it gives him power.  It is another example that he goes to his base to show fake news.  There are already too many of those examples, and as Maher said when we provide ammo that justifies his claims all that does is benefit his claims.  The simple answer is to get the news right, don’t selectively edit, be damn sure about what is reported.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 09, 2020, 02:23:15 PM

Quote from: jficke13 on May 09, 2020, 11:14:09 AM

That's not a point.

It's cool though, we can see your insinuations. It's smart that you use an alias. I wouldn't want to put my name to those opinions either.

Don't feed the chicos

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 09, 2020, 02:24:29 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 09, 2020, 02:05:23 PM

The problem is people do get their information there, and blue check journalists sharing this legitimizes it.  We cannot make claims that potus says false things and people follow it when others are sharing false information too.

Worse, as Bill Maher said on HBO a few weeks ago, when this happens it gives him power.  It is another example that he goes to his base to show fake news.  There are already too many of those examples, and as Maher said when we provide ammo that justifies his claims all that does is benefit his claims.  The simple answer is to get the news right, don’t selectively edit, be damn sure about what is reported.

Ah. Hold the media to a standard. But don't worry about the standards of the POTUS.

Beautiful

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 09, 2020, 02:34:23 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on May 09, 2020, 02:24:29 PM

Ah. Hold the media to a standard. But don't worry about the standards of the POTUS.

Beautiful

Hold both of them, but I’ve found in my years that politicians of all stripes lie all the time.  The media is supposed to keep them honest, not part of the dishonesty.  If they fall into the same trap, then who has the higher authority?   It is critical for our society to have an honest media.  Absolutely critical.  Most are, but those that aren’t it comes back to hurt even more because feeds the conjecture of the other side and further weakens trust in media as an institution.

An example is CBS was caught this week staging a story with health care workers and fake patients.  Why?  There is no need to do this.  All it does is damage their credibility.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 09, 2020, 03:00:07 PM

Serious question. Maybe one of our MDs knows the answer or somebody else has read it somewhere. I did the googles but couldn't find it ...

If somebody is an asymptomatic carrier of COVID-19, will he or she always test positive? Negative? No absolute?

I ask because we know that Trump and Pence have both been in close contact with several people who had the coronavirus. Even if they test negative, could they be asymptomatic carriers who are a danger to others? And if so, shouldn't they have to be quartantined for 14 days?

Unless an asymptomatic carrier always would test positive. Then I could see why they don't have to be quarantined.

Thanks in advance for any answers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 09, 2020, 03:04:40 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on May 09, 2020, 02:24:29 PM

Ah. Hold the media to a standard. But don't worry about the standards of the POTUS.

Beautiful

What do you mean? He’s never voted anything but blue before. Of course he’s holding Trump accountable, duh.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 09, 2020, 03:34:53 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 09, 2020, 03:00:07 PM

Serious question. Maybe one of our MDs knows the answer or somebody else has read it somewhere. I did the googles but couldn't find it ...

If somebody is an asymptomatic carrier of COVID-19, will he or she always test positive? Negative? No absolute?

I ask because we know that Trump and Pence have both been in close contact with several people who had the coronavirus. Even if they test negative, could they be asymptomatic carriers who are a danger to others? And if so, shouldn't they have to be quartantined for 14 days?

Unless an asymptomatic carrier always would test positive. Then I could see why they don't have to be quarantined.

Thanks in advance for any answers.

Not in the MD group, but am in the medical scientist field.

Yes, an asymptomatic patient will test positive. The virus is replicating in them, and they are shedding virus, which is why they are contagious. That means that the RNA that is detected by most of the testing platforms will be present.

The problem is that many of these tests have a high level of false negatives. This is going to be more probable in the early stages of the disease, when the individuals are still contagious.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on May 09, 2020, 03:44:10 PM

Yo MU82, I know you just want your 6 inch BMT, but do you have to carry your bazooka to make sure they put on banana peppers, and not jalapeño peppers.

https://twitter.com/vizjourno/status/1259189791150800899?s=21

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on May 09, 2020, 03:57:21 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 09, 2020, 01:59:20 PM

I made no insinuation at all nor would I. I’m a pro life Democrat, I value human life.  My position is to protect the fragile parts of society whether that is the unborn or the old and weak, especially with this pandemic where they are more vulnerable than others. 

Not sure why you went there as nothing in any of my messages would ever lead you to that conclusion.

something something shocked to see gambling in this establishment something something.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 09, 2020, 04:15:20 PM

Quote from: reinko on May 09, 2020, 03:44:10 PM

Yo MU82, I know you just want your 6 inch BMT, but do you have to carry your bazooka to make sure they put on banana peppers, and not jalapeño peppers.

https://twitter.com/vizjourno/status/1259189791150800899?s=21

I suspect it's their lack of anything approaching 6 inches that makes them want to walk around with big guns.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 09, 2020, 04:19:51 PM

Quote from: reinko on May 09, 2020, 07:57:00 AM

Says something about some posters who  have posted more about a Jimmy Kimmel bit, than barrage of daily lies coming from people in power who actually matter.

Whataboutism.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 09, 2020, 04:21:15 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on May 09, 2020, 02:24:29 PM

Ah. Hold the media to a standard. But don't worry about the standards of the POTUS.

Beautiful

More whataboutism.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on May 09, 2020, 04:40:48 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 09, 2020, 04:19:51 PM

Whataboutism.

Lenny, you are smarter than me, more accomplished more than me, and probably a better person than me.  I know you care about this nation, as do I.  But the faux outrage of a comedian, that fooled maybe a dozen “blue check marks”, and then maybe “influenced” tens of thousands of people who already despised this administration is a false narrative.  I think you know that.  And to “whataboutism” what Kimmel did to what this administration does on a daily basis on a 50x scale from people who are actually in charge and have real power, not “blue check mark brigade” power.  I mean c’mon Lenny.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 09, 2020, 04:43:34 PM

A comedian engaged in fiction and hyperbole for a punch line.    Horrors.

The leader of the free world ponders aloud about injecting/ingesting disinfectants and finding a way to shine UV light internally, his base applauds.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: withoutbias on May 09, 2020, 04:57:36 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 09, 2020, 04:19:51 PM

Whataboutism.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 09, 2020, 04:21:15 PM

More whataboutism.

Only wrong when it’s coming from the left, apparently.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on May 09, 2020, 05:00:29 PM

Quote from: forgetful on May 09, 2020, 03:34:53 PM

Yes, an asymptomatic patient will test positive. The virus is replicating in them, and they are shedding virus, which is why they are contagious. That means that the RNA that is detected by most of the testing platforms will be present.

Follow up:  Does an asymptomatic patient fight the virus or live with it?  When do they stop shedding virus? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 09, 2020, 05:32:57 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on May 09, 2020, 05:00:29 PM

Follow up:  Does an asymptomatic patient fight the virus or live with it?  When do they stop shedding virus?

To the best of my knowledge they fight this, just like everyone else. Just with no symptoms.

I don't think we know when they stop shedding virus, at least I have no idea on that. My guess is it varies like for symptomatic patients, but that is something the MD crowd could speak more intelligently on.

I can point you to a short article on one of the first reported cases on asymptomatic spread. Comes out of China, a woman with no symptoms that spread the disease to 5 relatives. Her incubation period was very long, 19-days.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2762028

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 09, 2020, 05:47:01 PM

As someone who has MD behind his name (though no longer practicing), I agree with forgetful‘s answers.

Anyone who has the virus should test positive, but it depends on the quality of the test. There has been plenty of news about inaccurate tests (false positives and false negatives) for covid.

And likewise, asymptomatic people do mount an immune response to the virus, so there is good reason to believe they would have long-term immunity comparable to what a recovered symptomatic patient would have. The reason they are asymptomatic is likely some combination of a strong immune system and a small viral load.

I don’t think we know the answer about the duration of virus shedding...at least I haven’t seen it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 09, 2020, 05:54:43 PM

Quote from: tower912 on May 09, 2020, 04:43:34 PM

A comedian engaged in fiction and hyperbole for a punch line.    Horrors.

The leader of the free world ponders aloud about injecting/ingesting disinfectants and finding a way to shine UV light internally, his base applauds.

So, are we holding a late-night comedian's jokes to unusually high standards for truthiness here, or the statements of a president of the United States to unusually low ones?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 09, 2020, 06:06:35 PM

https://twitter.com/GunnelsWarren/status/1258800333410590720?s=19

Terrifying

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 09, 2020, 06:12:08 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on May 09, 2020, 06:06:35 PM

https://twitter.com/GunnelsWarren/status/1258800333410590720?s=19

Terrifying

This isn’t terrifying it’s math. Where was Gunnels Warren when no one had yet lost their job yet and their wealth took a hit.  Kind of Lazy in my opinion. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 09, 2020, 06:41:47 PM

Why sports are going to be really hard to start up.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/german-bundesliga/story/4093404/bundesliga-2-side-dynamo-dresden-ordered-to-quarantine-squad-ahead-of-restart

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on May 09, 2020, 06:57:05 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 09, 2020, 06:12:08 PM

This isn’t terrifying it’s math. Where was Gunnels Warren when no one had yet lost their job yet and their wealth took a hit.  Kind of Lazy in my opinion.

Beyond lazy. Especially since it’s just a function of stock price fluctuation. Where was he when FB shed 40% of the share value 2 months ago?

There are valid arguments about the stock market as an indicator of economic health and pumping stock price, but it’s always good for misguided discussions about “wealth” and getting people to assume all those billionaires have the cash readily at hand, and not tied up in shares.

Also, FB/GOOGL/AMZN/MSFT have been excelling in this lockdown with their suites of tech/remote products.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 09, 2020, 07:26:06 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on May 09, 2020, 06:57:05 PM

Beyond lazy. Especially since it’s just a function of stock price fluctuation. Where was he when FB shed 40% of the share value 2 months ago?

There are valid arguments about the stock market as an indicator of economic health and pumping stock price, but it’s always good for misguided discussions about “wealth” and getting people to assume all those billionaires have the cash readily at hand, and not tied up in shares.

Also, FB/GOOGL/AMZN/MSFT have been excelling in this lockdown with their suites of tech/remote products.

Agree.

If you want to argue that too much wealth is concentrated in too few hands I'll agree, but that tweet is dumb.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 09, 2020, 07:29:29 PM

Australia researchers believe more people in their nation will die due to elevated suicide levels (economic fallout) then the virus itself. 

The trickle down effects of this virus and the reactions to it are complex. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 09, 2020, 07:33:46 PM

A third of US covid fatalities have been in nursing homes, assistes livings, etc.  From article in NY Times.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 09, 2020, 07:35:48 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 09, 2020, 07:33:46 PM

A third of US covid fatalities have been in nursing homes, assistes livings, etc.  From article in NY Times.

Here is the article.  I actually think the state disparity is amazing.  What is MI doing that everyone else should copy.

 https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/09/us/coronavirus-cases-nursing-homes-us.html (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/09/us/coronavirus-cases-nursing-homes-us.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on May 09, 2020, 07:41:32 PM

Michigan is not one of the states reporting comprehensive aggregate data, according to the article and the graph,

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 09, 2020, 07:46:25 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on May 09, 2020, 07:41:32 PM

Michigan is not one of the states reporting comprehensive aggregate data, according to the article and the graph,

Oh I took it as “we assemble our own data and in come cases it’s easy because states report it”. Doesn’t totally explain why Mass would be high and MI low either since they are both listed.  Unless I am just completely missing something.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 09, 2020, 07:50:08 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 09, 2020, 07:35:48 PM

Here is the article.  I actually think the state disparity is amazing.  What is MI doing that everyone else should copy.

 https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/09/us/coronavirus-cases-nursing-homes-us.html (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/09/us/coronavirus-cases-nursing-homes-us.html)

Thanks for for linking.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 09, 2020, 07:56:57 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 09, 2020, 07:29:29 PM

Australia researchers believe more people in their nation will die due to elevated suicide levels (economic fallout) then the virus itself.

Oh please provide a link for this.  Pretty please...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 09, 2020, 08:03:31 PM

Michigan is having big numbers in the prison populations.    Huge numbers in the poor African American communities of Detroit and surrounding areas.    It is having some breakouts in nursing homes.  Fully 1/4 of the deaths in my county are from one nursing home.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 09, 2020, 08:06:56 PM

Quote from: tower912 on May 09, 2020, 08:03:31 PM

Michigan is having big numbers in the prison populations.    Huge numbers in the poor African American communities of Detroit and surrounding areas.    It is having some breakouts in nursing homes.  Fully 1/4 of the deaths in my county are from one nursing home.

Meal Team Six will handle it, once they finish their raspberry cheesecake cookies.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 09, 2020, 08:15:23 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 09, 2020, 06:12:08 PM

This isn’t terrifying it’s math. Where was Gunnels Warren when no one had yet lost their job yet and their wealth took a hit.  Kind of Lazy in my opinion.

To me, it's terrifying for the long term ramifications of more wealth inequality

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on May 09, 2020, 08:15:46 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 09, 2020, 06:41:47 PM

Why sports are going to be really hard to start up.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/german-bundesliga/story/4093404/bundesliga-2-side-dynamo-dresden-ordered-to-quarantine-squad-ahead-of-restart

Life will be hard period as long as no vaccine is available to free us all.
I honestly think people at the F it point.  Went to get a prescription friday at target and it was packed. about half had masks on but it seemed like business as usual.  Today at walmart was much of the same.  For weeks prior they were checking people at the do or 1 entrance open and only allowing so many in the stare at once.  Today nobody was at the door and both entrances were open.

Overall people do respect the 6 ft but why not just make masks mandatory. 

As for sports I really think you can have people in the stands.  Plenty of technology to only have so many seats available only have about 20% of the crowd to start.  Concessions and bathrooms would be treated just like a grocery store is today

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 09, 2020, 09:01:50 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on May 09, 2020, 08:15:23 PM

To me, it's terrifying for the long term ramifications of more wealth inequality

All of them are entrepreneurs. they took risks, sacrificed, and got lucky in many ways.  All except Buffett are in the tech space.  Tech companies are supplying what people need right now, if its streaming, video, apps, etc. 

I guess i just dont look at the number of B's after the dollar sign and get angry.  I say good for them, I'll take my little old middle class life, but don't have anger or animosity towards the very wealthy.  And many of thise names are philanthropic too, which helps everyone out.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 10, 2020, 09:03:38 AM

From the Associated Press:

As Trump pulls back from virus, Congress races to fill void

https://apnews.com/919b26f2576dff3e888cad3f10446562

Jolted by the lack of comprehensive federal planning as states begin to reopen, lawmakers of both parties, from the senior-most senators to the newest House member, are jumping in to develop policies and unleash resources to prevent a second wave.

In the House and Senate, lawmakers are pushing sweeping proposals for a national virus testing strategy. One seasoned Republican wants a war-like public health fund. A New Jersey freshman launched neighboring colleagues on a regional bipartisan task force to help guide Northeastern states back to work.

——

A comprehensive, coordinated plan instead of impulsive and contradictory tweets. What a concept.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 10, 2020, 09:05:55 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 10, 2020, 09:03:38 AM

From the Associated Press:

As Trump pulls back from virus, Congress races to fill void

https://apnews.com/919b26f2576dff3e888cad3f10446562

Jolted by the lack of comprehensive federal planning as states begin to reopen, lawmakers of both parties, from the senior-most senators to the newest House member, are jumping in to develop policies and unleash resources to prevent a second wave.

In the House and Senate, lawmakers are pushing sweeping proposals for a national virus testing strategy. One seasoned Republican wants a war-like public health fund. A New Jersey freshman launched neighboring colleagues on a regional bipartisan task force to help guide Northeastern states back to work.

——

A comprehensive, coordinated plan instead of impulsive and contradictory tweets. What a concept.

This sounds hopeful.  Time for legislatures to do their jobs

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on May 10, 2020, 09:18:42 AM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 10, 2020, 09:05:55 AM

This sounds hopeful.  Time for legislatures to do their jobs

Yep. President steps in to manage the emergency, Congress should be setting up the clean-up, future prevention and response.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 10, 2020, 09:44:42 AM

Quote from: Retire0 on May 10, 2020, 09:18:42 AM

Yep. President steps in to manage the emergency, Congress should be setting up the clean-up, future prevention and response.

The article explains that Congress is doing this first part too, because there is bipartisan agreement that POTUS did not effectively “manage the emergency.” Instead, he sat on the sidelines while the states did the work, with varying results.

The “national virus testing strategy“ referred to in the article should have been one of the very first things POTUS did.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 10, 2020, 10:05:35 AM

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/05/americas-racial-contract-showing/611389/

Perfectly written.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 10, 2020, 10:32:16 AM

Quote from: wadesworld on May 10, 2020, 10:05:35 AM

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/05/americas-racial-contract-showing/611389/

Perfectly written.

I never heard Roggensack's quote before.  That is brutal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 10, 2020, 10:38:43 AM

Quote from: Retire0 on May 10, 2020, 09:18:42 AM

Yep. President steps in to manage the emergency, Congress should be setting up the clean-up, future prevention and response.

We had a very robust  future prevention and response in place, but a moron disassembled it. Even if we put it back in place, how do we prevent future misadministrations from habitually underfunding and eliminating it?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 10, 2020, 11:14:25 AM

Quote from: wadesworld on May 10, 2020, 10:05:35 AM

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/05/americas-racial-contract-showing/611389/

Perfectly written.

It's a hard read, because sadly it is all true. I've noticed in my city, the initial cases were all in the wealthy neighborhoods. People traveling from luxurious overseas vacations.

Those neighborhoods are now pretty safe. Most of the new cases are in poor neighborhoods, where originally there were no cases. Because those were the people still being forced to work, and had to take public transportation to get to their "essential jobs," that paid minimum wage.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 10, 2020, 11:18:41 AM

Quote from: forgetful on May 09, 2020, 03:34:53 PM

Not in the MD group, but am in the medical scientist field.

Yes, an asymptomatic patient will test positive. The virus is replicating in them, and they are shedding virus, which is why they are contagious. That means that the RNA that is detected by most of the testing platforms will be present.

The problem is that many of these tests have a high level of false negatives. This is going to be more probable in the early stages of the disease, when the individuals are still contagious.

Thanks, forgetful (and others chiming in) for the answer. So assuming that Trump and Pence get the best testing money can buy, it would seem quarantining them is unnecessary after they have contact with infected people as long as they have negative tests.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 10, 2020, 11:20:51 AM

Quote from: reinko on May 09, 2020, 03:44:10 PM

Yo MU82, I know you just want your 6 inch BMT, but do you have to carry your bazooka to make sure they put on banana peppers, and not jalapeño peppers.

https://twitter.com/vizjourno/status/1259189791150800899?s=21

I try to avoid the Raleigh-Durham area ... and I guess that's a good thing.

I agree with Pakuni about these gentlemen obviously trying to make up for physical shortcomings. Probably mental shortcomings, too.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 10, 2020, 11:25:17 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 09, 2020, 05:54:43 PM

So, are we holding a late-night comedian's jokes to unusually high standards for truthiness here, or the statements of a president of the United States to unusually low ones?

I merely follow the teachings of Mike Pence, who in 1998 said this about holding POTUS accountable:

If you and I fall into bad moral habits, we can harm our families, our employers and our friends. The President of the United States can incinerate the planet. Seriously, the very idea that we ought to have at or less than the same moral demands placed on the Chief Executive that we place on our next door neighbor is ludicrous and dangerous. ... Throughout our history, we have seen the presidency as the repository of all of our highest hopes and ideals and values. To demand less is to do an injustice to the blood that bought our freedoms.

Now that he's the Vice Hypocrite, Pence seems less concerned about a president's responsibilities in this realm. But maybe he thinks late-night TV comedians should be held to those high standards now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 10, 2020, 12:17:42 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 10, 2020, 11:18:41 AM

Thanks, forgetful (and others chiming in) for the answer. So assuming that Trump and Pence get the best testing money can buy, it would seem quarantining them is unnecessary after they have contact with infected people as long as they have negative tests.

Correct, but only if they have a 100% effective test. I don’t know if there any tests for COVID that have a 0% false negative rate.

My guess is that they get the same tests as Fauci and the other docs that work in the WH, and they have elected to self-quarantine. Draw your own conclusions...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 10, 2020, 02:25:22 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 09, 2020, 07:56:57 PM

Oh please provide a link for this.  Pretty please...

Study done at Sydney University.  Here is one of the researchers in his own words

https://twitter.com/SBSNews/status/1258298018710736896

Some additional links (appears there a many to choose from)

https://www.barrons.com/news/australia-fears-suicide-spike-due-to-virus-shutdown-01588819808

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8293233/Far-people-Australia-predicted-die-suicide-coronavirus-lockdown.html


If that doesn't grab your attention, 75,000 Americans could die of suicide because of COVID.  https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/08/health/coronavirus-deaths-of-despair/index.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 10, 2020, 02:27:38 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 10, 2020, 02:25:22 PM

Study done at Sydney University.  Here is one of the researchers in his own words

https://twitter.com/SBSNews/status/1258298018710736896

Some additional links (appears there a many to choose from)

https://www.barrons.com/news/australia-fears-suicide-spike-due-to-virus-shutdown-01588819808

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8293233/Far-people-Australia-predicted-die-suicide-coronavirus-lockdown.html


If that doesn't grab your attention, 75,000 Americans could die of suicide because of COVID.  https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/08/health/coronavirus-deaths-of-despair/index.html

It literally says in the title “OVERDOSE or suicide.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 10, 2020, 02:33:54 PM

Quote from: wadesworld on May 10, 2020, 02:27:38 PM

It literally says in the title “OVERDOSE or suicide.”

Because in many cases it is difficult to discern if an overdose is a suicide or just an accidental overdose.  This has been part of the psychiatric medical world going back to the 1970's.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 10, 2020, 02:51:29 PM

President Obama said it well yesterday.  "It would have been bad even in the best of governments".  Agree with him completely.  When I see people say blood on someone's hands, or all 75K deaths result of one person, or bigger than Vietnam.  This is nothing but blatant partisanship. 

Could things have been better?  No double in my mind.  Would a different administration have done things differently in an election year?  Highly doubtful. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 10, 2020, 02:53:44 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 10, 2020, 02:51:29 PM

President Obama said it well yesterday.  "It would have been bad even in the best of governments".  Agree with him completely.  When I see people say blood on someone's hands, or all 75K deaths result of one person, or bigger than Vietnam.  This is nothing but blatant partisanship. 

Could things have been better?  No double in my mind.  Would a different administration have done things differently in an election year?  Highly doubtful.

That's not partisanship. It's just math

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 10, 2020, 02:55:56 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 10, 2020, 02:25:22 PM

Study done at Sydney University.  Here is one of the researchers in his own words

https://twitter.com/SBSNews/status/1258298018710736896

Some additional links (appears there a many to choose from)

https://www.barrons.com/news/australia-fears-suicide-spike-due-to-virus-shutdown-01588819808

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8293233/Far-people-Australia-predicted-die-suicide-coronavirus-lockdown.html


If that doesn't grab your attention, 75,000 Americans could die of suicide because of COVID.  https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/08/health/coronavirus-deaths-of-despair/index.html

The researchers are saying more deaths in Australia because of suicide, because they are assuming essentially no CoVID deaths. They are estimating 1500 suicides total nationwide. If Australia didn't quarantine, and treat this as seriously as they did, they would already have had far more than 1500 CoVID deaths. Because of Australia's quarantine, tracking, and tracing programs they have only had 97 deaths from CoVID.

Regarding the 75,000 Americans. The study does not look at a comparison of how many would die from overdose or suicide if 100's of thousands of Americans are dying from a disease that is difficult to avoid. My guess is that individuals who are susceptible to overdose and suicide would be far more affected by large scale death and disease, and uncertainty around it, than economic affects. Looking at one in isolation of the other is poor practice.

The one thing that is true though, is regardless, we need to be investing more heavily in mental health care, because many are suffering mental health issues.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 10, 2020, 02:58:26 PM

Historically, math isn't partisan.  But we do live in a world of alternative facts.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 10, 2020, 03:38:25 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 10, 2020, 02:51:29 PM

President Obama said it well yesterday.  "It would have been bad even in the best of governments".  Agree with him completely.  When I see people say blood on someone's hands, or all 75K deaths result of one person, or bigger than Vietnam.  This is nothing but blatant partisanship. 

Could things have been better?  No double in my mind.  Would a different administration have done things differently in an election year?  Highly doubtful.

Industrial strength intellectual dishonesty. So, so chicos.

"Obama continued to tear into the Trump administration’s handling of the coronavirus crisis, partly blaming the White House’s "what’s in it for me" mindset.

"It's part of the reason why the response to this global crisis has been so anemic and spotty," Obama said. "It would have been bad even with the best of governments. It has been an absolute chaotic disaster when that mindset of 'what's in it for me' and 'to heck with everybody else' ... is operationalized in our government."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 10, 2020, 03:55:24 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 10, 2020, 02:25:22 PM

If that doesn't grab your attention, 75,000 Americans could die of suicide because of COVID.  https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/08/health/coronavirus-deaths-of-despair/index.html

What WarriorCheeks won't tell you is that the authors of the study in no way are opposed to stay-at-home orders or advocate for reopening things quicker as a means to avoid such tragic consequences. Instead, they argue that the government needs to do more to provide mental health services, drug counseling and other care to those impacted by the downturn.
You know, exactly the kind of thing small government types don't want.

From the report:

This report is not a call to suddenly reopen the country. Some might use this report to argue that this is why our economy needs to open up fast. But that’s NOT what we are saying.  We need to abide by good science, and make sure that testing and contact tracing is occurring at adequate levels to assure that it is safe to open up. Even as of today parts of the country are opening, data suggest that this is premature due to a lack of consistent testing, which allows local public health authorities to trace, treat, and isolate to prevent further spread. A range of efforts at containing the COVID-19 pandemic must be rigorously applied to minimize deaths from infection.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 10, 2020, 04:06:12 PM

He forgot to read his link again.    Tsk, tsk, tsk.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 10, 2020, 05:39:49 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 10, 2020, 03:55:24 PM

From the report:

This report is not a call to suddenly reopen the country. Some might use this report to argue that this is why our economy needs to open up fast. But that’s NOT what we are saying.  We need to abide by good science, and make sure that testing and contact tracing is occurring at adequate levels to assure that it is safe to open up. Even as of today parts of the country are opening, data suggest that this is premature due to a lack of consistent testing, which allows local public health authorities to trace, treat, and isolate to prevent further spread. A range of efforts at containing the COVID-19 pandemic must be rigorously applied to minimize deaths from infection.

I agree with the conclusions from the report cheeks posted. We need comprehensive testing and contact tracing before we reopen the country; and we need dramatically enhanced mental health services to mitigate mental health issues that might result from this crisis.

#keepsciencing

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 10, 2020, 05:48:48 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 10, 2020, 05:39:49 PM

I agree with the conclusions from the report cheeks posted. We need comprehensive testing and contact tracing before we reopen the country; and we need dramatically enhanced mental health services to mitigate mental health issues that might result from this crisis.

#keepsciencing

The report's not necessarily unreasonable, though it is pretty vague and I couldn't find some of their definitions ... like, is a pedestrian hit by a drunk driver a COVID death? I don't know, because they don't appear to define that.
The irony is that the authors emphasize that the report shouldn't be used in exactly the way WarriorCheeks is trying to use it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 10, 2020, 05:53:24 PM

I never seen anyone who so frequently posts links that make the opposite point that they think they make. I mean, ALL.THE.TIME.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 10, 2020, 05:58:08 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 10, 2020, 05:48:48 PM

The report's not necessarily unreasonable, though it is pretty vague and I couldn't find some of their definitions ... like, is a pedestrian hit by a drunk driver a COVID death? I don't know, because they don't appear to define that.
The irony is that the authors emphasize that the report shouldn't be used in exactly the way WarriorCheeks is trying to use it.

The other factor that cheeks and the report don’t address are the possible suicides resulting from reopening the economy too soon...which could result both in worker stress (having to work when they still don’t feel safe), and possibly having a bigger second wave than if we open more deliberately.

Either way, the bottom line recommendation from the report is absolutely critical: we need dramatically enhanced mental health services available to all.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 10, 2020, 06:00:28 PM

Quote from: forgetful on May 10, 2020, 02:55:56 PM

The researchers are saying more deaths in Australia because of suicide, because they are assuming essentially no CoVID deaths. They are estimating 1500 suicides total nationwide. If Australia didn't quarantine, and treat this as seriously as they did, they would already have had far more than 1500 CoVID deaths. Because of Australia's quarantine, tracking, and tracing programs they have only had 97 deaths from CoVID.

Regarding the 75,000 Americans. The study does not look at a comparison of how many would die from overdose or suicide if 100's of thousands of Americans are dying from a disease that is difficult to avoid. My guess is that individuals who are susceptible to overdose and suicide would be far more affected by large scale death and disease, and uncertainty around it, than economic affects. Looking at one in isolation of the other is poor practice.

The one thing that is true though, is regardless, we need to be investing more heavily in mental health care, because many are suffering mental health issues.

Both studies are saying there are incremental suicides as a result of the economic despair caused by this virus and the actions taken.  I am not passing judgment on what the correct policy action is as only time will tell.  Do you disagree with their assertions that more people are in mental distress because of job losses, their business no longer functioning, anxiety about the future?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 10, 2020, 06:05:27 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on May 10, 2020, 03:38:25 PM

Industrial strength intellectual dishonesty. So, so chicos.

"Obama continued to tear into the Trump administration’s handling of the coronavirus crisis, partly blaming the White House’s "what’s in it for me" mindset.

"It's part of the reason why the response to this global crisis has been so anemic and spotty," Obama said. "It would have been bad even with the best of governments. It has been an absolute chaotic disaster when that mindset of 'what's in it for me' and 'to heck with everybody else' ... is operationalized in our government."

The part you quoted was his opinion, which I agree with, but it is only an opinion.  He's in a position where he didn't have to do anything so he can say what he wants and no one can prove it differently.  I do not believe any other administration in an election year would do things much differently.  Political suicide.

Based on news in the last 72 hours, President Obama may be looking to say a number of things right now because of the transcripts released on Friday from the Russia investigation. There is some head scratching testimony from his administration that don't align with the claims of never having a scandal.  I suspect we will be hearing much more in the coming weeks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 10, 2020, 06:09:53 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 10, 2020, 06:05:27 PM

The part you quoted was his opinion, which I agree with, but it is only an opinion.  He's in a position where he didn't have to do anything so he can say what he wants and no one can prove it differently.  I do not believe any other administration in an election year would do things much differently.  Political suicide.

Based on news in the last 72 hours, President Obama may be looking to say a number of things right now because of the transcripts released on Friday from the Russia investigation. There is some head scratching testimony from his administration that don't align with the claims of never having a scandal.  I suspect we will be hearing much more in the coming weeks.

Wooo boy. A shoe may drop on a man you voted for. Twice!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 10, 2020, 06:20:57 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 10, 2020, 06:00:28 PM

Both studies are saying there are incremental suicides as a result of the economic despair caused by this virus and the actions taken.  I am not passing judgment on what the correct policy action is as only time will tell.  Do you disagree with their assertions that more people are in mental distress because of job losses, their business no longer functioning, anxiety about the future?

You are creating a false question, deliberately so, in my opinion. You act as if the only stress is due to job losses and economic uncertainty.

The stress of 10's-100's of thousands of people dying from a disease, and many others dealing with lung/heart scarring, is immense. Especially when there is a constant, uncertain fear, that you and your loved ones may be next, with no ability to protect yourself.

If one quarantines, you get more economic stress. If one does not, you get more health stress as more get sick, and die. A proper analysis, which your link is not, looks at all the compounding issues.

The reason your link regarding 75k deaths doesn't go into those issues, is they are not advocating for any policy, beyond the fact that we need better mental health care during the coronavirus pandemic. Everyone here agrees that we need better mental health care.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 10, 2020, 06:41:44 PM

I agree, forgetful.

We could very well see a dramatic increase in suicides regardless of policy decisions made going forward. Either we keep the economy closed, and people get additional stress from being out of work, or we open too soon and people get additional stress from having to go back to work when they still don’t feel safe from a life-threatening disease.

Bottom line: we will face additional stress and possible suicides simply because COVID is here. All the more reason for enhanced access to mental health services, regardless of what governors do next.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 10, 2020, 06:51:55 PM

That is very kind of you, WD, pointing out the weaknesses in the mental health system and advocating for more and better treatment.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 10, 2020, 06:57:12 PM

Quote from: tower912 on May 10, 2020, 06:51:55 PM

That is very kind of you, WD, pointing out the weaknesses in the mental health system and advocating for more and better treatment.

I heard he used to hold a different position.  However, after a fierce debate at a backyard beer summit, he was swayed to an advocacy position ‘for’ mental health. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 10, 2020, 07:14:48 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 10, 2020, 06:05:27 PM

Mammoth intellectual dishonesty. What would one expect from you, eh hoopaloop?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 10, 2020, 07:18:47 PM

Somewhere in one of these threads a person asked if POTUS was justified in not using a mask because he had tested negative. The presumption was that he would have access to the best possible testing kits.

I replied that this would only be justified if the rate of false negatives was 0%.

Anyhow, I just stumbled across a New York Times article indicating that the White House is using a test called ID Now, presumably because it provides very quick results (approximately 15 minutes). Unfortunately, this test also has a relatively high rate of false negatives, with Cleveland Clinic reporting a rate of almost 15% in a recent study. Steps are being taken to reduce this rate, but it is clearly well above 0%.

Based on this high rate of false negatives, POTUS could easily test negative and still be spreading the virus. FWIW.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 10, 2020, 07:24:53 PM

https://twitter.com/60Minutes/status/1259621162163855361?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 10, 2020, 07:25:20 PM

https://twitter.com/cmyeaton/status/1258511596713738240?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 10, 2020, 07:30:00 PM

Quote from: tower912 on May 10, 2020, 06:51:55 PM

That is very kind of you, WD, pointing out the weaknesses in the mental health system and advocating for more and better treatment.

Interestingly, an increase in spending on mental health would benefit a guy like him quite a bit.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 10, 2020, 07:38:33 PM

I think it is a roundabout way to (A) cry for help and (B) express concern about the well-being of other scoopers.   There are resources available WD.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 10, 2020, 08:54:47 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 10, 2020, 07:30:00 PM

Interestingly, an increase in spending on mental health would benefit a guy like him quite a bit.

Unnecessary.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 10, 2020, 09:35:59 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 10, 2020, 08:54:47 PM

Unnecessary.

You're right, he really should seek help.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on May 10, 2020, 09:39:28 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 10, 2020, 07:30:00 PM

Interestingly, an increase in spending on mental health would benefit a guy like him quite a bit.

out of bounds-making light of mh not cool.  thought we moved on from this stuff...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 10, 2020, 10:07:07 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 10, 2020, 09:35:59 PM

You're right, he really should seek help.

Just solidify the fact that you are an assholė.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 11, 2020, 07:50:03 AM

I've come to the conclusion that if the phrase "No Shirt. No Shoes. No Service" came out today, that a segment of our society would view it as an affront to their personal freedoms and walk around protesting shirtless and shoeless.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 11, 2020, 08:41:08 AM

Some Costco members, including leaders of influential right-wing groups, are threatening to boycott the chain for requiring shoppers to wear facemasks.

https://www.today.com/food/people-want-boycott-costco-over-store-s-new-mandatory-mask-t181002?campaign_id=4&emc=edit_dk_20200511&instance_id=18386&nl=dealbook&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=27244&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

Last week, Costco announced it would be requiring all shoppers to wear a mask or face covering "that covers the mouth and nose at all times" while in stores nationwide. Those under the age of 2 are exempt from the policy.

The retailer's decision is line with current guidelines from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which has been advising people to wear some type of facial covering "in public settings where other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain (e.g., grocery stores and pharmacies), especially in areas of significant community-based transmission." The CDC says that even simple face coverings are better than nothing in order to "slow the spread" and limit the transmission of coronavirus, even among those who don't know they might be infected.

Despite this recommendation, which has been issued for people in all 50 states, Costco faced immediate backlash from a sizable number of people who declared they would no longer shop at the big-box retailer if forced to cover their faces.

@Costco
You have hit a new low... you are an American corporation with an obligation to support our American values, dictating face mask for your workers is one thing but forcing this on your loyal members who paid for a membership is a complete abuse of power. #boycottcostco
— Eric Torres (@therealeric87) May 6, 2020

Ashley Smith, a leader at ReOpen NC, has been calling for a boycott of both Costco and Whole Foods stores.

“We cannot let them normalize the fear — it allows them to drag out the closures and restrictions and will make it easier for them to do this to the country every flu season moving forward,” Smith posted on Facebook.

Yeah! Why should we be required to protect Costco employees and our fellow citizens? Our freedoms give us the right to go into private businesses and infect people if that's what we want to do! It's OK for our president to not wear a mask in a mask factory, even though it was a rule there, and it's OK for our vice president to not wear a mask in the Mayo Clinic, where every shred of common sense dictates that he should have done so ... so it has to be OK for us to not wear masks at Costco! MAGA!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on May 11, 2020, 08:48:47 AM

I read that. I’ve not been a member but am thinking of joining now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 11, 2020, 08:49:12 AM

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/anti-lockdown-protesters-carry-weapons-north-carolina-sandwich-shop-n1204081

Related... If requiring masks in public is infringing upon our rights, what about regular clothing? How far are we going to take this line of thinking?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 11, 2020, 08:50:57 AM

Sadly this is all meant to divide us. 

Testing, tracing and eventually treatment/vaccine are the way out of this global pandemic.  Economically we need to blunt the impact to those affected.  Achieves all of our objectives.  I’m going to spend my limited energy worrying about those items and throw my support behind leaders that advance those causes. May result in me being much more local in my focus & effort. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 11, 2020, 08:54:17 AM

Seriously, where is the president in all of this. Where is he in saying we all need to make some sacrifices for the health of America. Wear a mask (and he can lead with wearing the mask).

Heck, sell some "Make America Safe Again" masks (come to think of it, Scoop should monetize this idea), and market them to your followers.

Such a simple thing, and not something that needed to be made a political issue.

edit: Crap, someone already monetized the "Make America Safe Again" mask.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on May 11, 2020, 09:04:02 AM

Quote from: forgetful on May 11, 2020, 08:54:17 AM

Seriously, where is the president in all of this. Where is he in saying we all need to make some sacrifices for the health of America. Wear a mask (and he can lead with wearing the mask).

Heck, sell some "Make America Safe Again" masks (come to think of it, Scoop should monetize this idea), and market them to your followers.

Such a simple thing, and not something that needed to be made a political issue.

edit: Crap, someone already monetized the "Make America Safe Again" mask.

i agree a simple gesture of trump and pence wearing a mask would have gone a long way

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 11, 2020, 09:06:45 AM

Quote from: MU82 on May 11, 2020, 08:41:08 AM

Some Costco members, including leaders of influential right-wing groups, are threatening to boycott the chain for requiring shoppers to wear facemasks.

These are the same people who post videos of themselves smashing their Keurigs and think they've owned the libs.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 11, 2020, 09:07:10 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 11, 2020, 08:50:57 AM

Sadly this is all meant to divide us. 

Testing, tracing and eventually treatment/vaccine are the way out of this global pandemic.  Economically we need to blunt the impact to those affected.  Achieves all of our objectives.  I’m going to spend my limited energy worrying about those items and throw my support behind leaders that advance those causes. May result in me being much more local in my focus & effort.

Very true. CDC seems to have been forced to abandon its fundamental mission to do those very things (or at least silenced when it does), so we are left with state and local officials to carry the banner. A few are doing a very good job against immense political pressure, while others are caving before the numbers say they should.

And I feel even better about shopping at Costco than I did yesterday....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 11, 2020, 09:07:33 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 11, 2020, 08:50:57 AM

Sadly this is all meant to divide us. 

Testing, tracing and eventually treatment/vaccine are the way out of this global pandemic.  Economically we need to blunt the impact to those affected.  Achieves all of our objectives.  I’m going to spend my limited energy worrying about those items and throw my support behind leaders that advance those causes. May result in me being much more local in my focus & effort.

I don't think Costco requiring masks was "meant to divide us." I hope that's not what you're saying.

Quote from: jesmu84 on May 11, 2020, 08:49:12 AM

If requiring masks in public is infringing upon our rights, what about regular clothing? How far are we going to take this line of thinking?

Yeah! I have the right to go anywhere I want naked! That truly would scare the coronavirus into hiding!!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 11, 2020, 09:17:15 AM

Quote from: injuryBug on May 11, 2020, 09:04:02 AM

i agree a simple gesture of trump and pence wearing a mask would have gone a long way

Agreed. Interestingly, POTUS apparently fears that a mask - a mask! - would make him "look ridiculous."

https://apnews.com/7dce310db6e85b31d735e81d0af6769c

Moreover, Trump, who is known to be especially cognizant of his appearance on television, has also told confidants that he fears he would look ridiculous in a mask and the image would appear in negative ads.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 11, 2020, 09:20:28 AM

Went to Costco Friday.   Everybody wearing a mask except one Karen who looked like she was hoping to be confronted.  Character revealed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 11, 2020, 09:22:54 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 11, 2020, 09:17:15 AM

Agreed. Interestingly, POTUS apparently fears that a mask - a mask! - would make him "look ridiculous."

https://apnews.com/7dce310db6e85b31d735e81d0af6769c

Moreover, Trump, who is known to be especially cognizant of his appearance on television, has also told confidants that he fears he would look ridiculous in a mask and the image would appear in negative ads.

He's not wrong. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 11, 2020, 09:26:37 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 10, 2020, 10:07:07 PM

Just solidify the fact that you are an assholė.

Would you two be white knighting for TSmith?  Doubt it.  You're hypocrites.

Apparently its fine to bring back JayBee, but I say WD/Chicos needs mental health help (he legit does), and I'm out of line. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 11, 2020, 09:27:53 AM

Quote from: tower912 on May 11, 2020, 09:20:28 AM

Went to Costco Friday.   Everybody wearing a mask except one Karen who looked like she was hoping to be confronted.  Character revealed.

Went on Saturday. Everyone had or was given a mask. Explicitly told to wear in the store. 1 lady said she didn't want a mask - she was not let in. 1 gentleman took his off 10 feet past the entrance - immediately told his option was to put/leave it on or leave the store.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 11, 2020, 09:29:23 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 11, 2020, 09:17:15 AM

Agreed. Interestingly, POTUS apparently fears that a mask - a mask! - would make him "look ridiculous."

https://apnews.com/7dce310db6e85b31d735e81d0af6769c

Moreover, Trump, who is known to be especially cognizant of his appearance on television, has also told confidants that he fears he would look ridiculous in a mask and the image would appear in negative ads.

Well, it would probably pull off a quarter inch of makeup when it came off and he'd look like Homer Simpson.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 11, 2020, 09:32:35 AM

Quote from: MU82 on May 11, 2020, 09:07:33 AM

I don't think Costco requiring masks was "meant to divide us." I hope that's not what you're saying.

I'm not talking about Costco...they are a foil in this debate.  I'm talking about the government (CDC) recommending this, the executive leadership not endorsing this (even in the press conference where it was announced) and then the media explosion fanning the flames. 

It is proper for us to follow CDC guidance.  I am glad some states and corporations are stepping in.  The fact this is a discussion is purposeful and meant to divide us.

Hopefully that is more clear.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 11, 2020, 09:38:32 AM

Quote from: forgetful on May 11, 2020, 08:54:17 AM

Seriously, where is the president in all of this.

You know where he is: tweeting "Liberate!" and mooning over OAN because they "treat him so well".

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 11, 2020, 09:46:09 AM

(https://scontent.fmia1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/97132479_3435046093176475_9060527333919686656_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=1480c5&_nc_ohc=IfXyEx2hV9kAX-qOxPN&_nc_ht=scontent.fmia1-1.fna&oh=9fdcfbe76bcf8201f295cf9069a1fb58&oe=5EDEB059)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 11, 2020, 09:48:23 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 11, 2020, 09:26:37 AM

Would you two be white knighting for TSmith?  Doubt it.  You're hypocrites.

Apparently its fine to bring back JayBee, but I say WD/Chicos needs mental health help (he legit does), and I'm out of line.

I just dont find mental health digs at anyone funny or productive.   You never know what is going on in someone's head.  I've had good interactions with Cheeks in PMs but his online character is over the top.  But i dont know the guy well enough to say that he needs mental health help based on a message board.  No one does.  In a time where mental health is even more important, especially for men, your comments are unnecessary and you come across as a  complete prick.

I think tsmith is the biggest assholę on the board, but i wouldnt attack his mental health. 

I've been in therapy plus meds for 20 plus years, and have lost friends to suicide and other mental health issues, so your comments piss me the fück off.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on May 11, 2020, 09:50:43 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 11, 2020, 09:17:15 AM

Agreed. Interestingly, POTUS apparently fears that a mask - a mask! - would make him "look ridiculous."

https://apnews.com/7dce310db6e85b31d735e81d0af6769c

Moreover, Trump, who is known to be especially cognizant of his appearance on television, has also told confidants that he fears he would look ridiculous in a mask and the image would appear in negative ads.

I think it would do the opposite and win some over in the election year.

Another interesting thing to keep an eye on is how things go with Shanghai Disney re-opening
Talked with my cousin who works for UW this weekend they are planning to host football games with 10,000 fans this fall

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 11, 2020, 10:34:12 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 11, 2020, 09:48:23 AM

I just dont find mental health digs at anyone funny or productive.   You never know what is going on in someone's head.  I've had good interactions with Cheeks in PMs but his online character is over the top.  But i dont know the guy well enough to say that he needs mental health help based on a message board.  No one does.  In a time where mental health is even more important, especially for men, your comments are unnecessary and you come across as a  complete prick.

I think tsmith is the biggest assholę on the board, but i wouldnt attack his mental health. 

I've been in therapy plus meds for 20 plus years, and have lost friends to suicide and other mental health issues, so your comments piss me the fück off.

Obviously, I'm not a doc, but if he would just drop the veil and stop playing pretend it would go a long way.  Sorry for your struggles, and I'm sorry that I have upset you. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 11, 2020, 10:37:05 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 11, 2020, 09:48:23 AM

I think tsmith is the biggest assholę on the board, but i wouldnt attack his mental health. 

Thanks, Snowflake! That means a lot to me coming from you! :heartemoji:

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on May 11, 2020, 10:50:19 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 11, 2020, 07:50:03 AM

I've come to the conclusion that if the phrase "No Shirt. No Shoes. No Service" came out today, that a segment of our society would view it as an affront to their personal freedoms and walk around protesting shirtless and shoeless.

I would like to add a new PAC would be created and pay people to not wear shirts and shoes and attempt to go into various establishments.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 11, 2020, 10:50:32 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 11, 2020, 09:48:23 AM

I just dont find mental health digs at anyone funny or productive.   You never know what is going on in someone's head.
......
I've been in therapy plus meds for 20 plus years, and have lost friends to suicide and other mental health issues, so your comments piss me the fück off.

Agree 100%.

I lost a best friend and an aunt to suicide, and have a long history of mental illness in my family. For a long time I thought I was the one person in my family who “dodged the bullet,“ but a few setbacks taught me otherwise. Since beginning therapy a few years back, I have come to realize that our words and actions result from a complex mix of factors that we can’t even begin to define with certainty.

Mental illness is as serious as any other type of illness, and should not be joked about any more than cancer, strokes or COVID.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 11, 2020, 10:53:00 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 11, 2020, 09:32:35 AM

I'm not talking about Costco...they are a foil in this debate.  I'm talking about the government (CDC) recommending this, the executive leadership not endorsing this (even in the press conference where it was announced) and then the media explosion fanning the flames. 

It is proper for us to follow CDC guidance.  I am glad some states and corporations are stepping in.  The fact this is a discussion is purposeful and meant to divide us.

Hopefully that is more clear.

Thanks for this, and I really didn't think you were talking about Costco.

Quote from: jesmu84 on May 11, 2020, 09:27:53 AM

Went on Saturday. Everyone had or was given a mask. Explicitly told to wear in the store. 1 lady said she didn't want a mask - she was not let in. 1 gentleman took his off 10 feet past the entrance - immediately told his option was to put/leave it on or leave the store.

My wife, who is an RN, said this after the Pence/Mayo and Trump/mask factory fiascos ...

"If I were the director of the Mayo Clinic or that mask factory - but especially the Mayo Clinic, an effen hospital - I would have said, 'Sorry, but you have to wear a mask. If you won't wear one, you aren't getting in. And I don't care if you're the president, the vice president or just some regular Joe.'"

In other words:

No mask ... no photo op.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on May 11, 2020, 11:03:00 AM

Cuomo was FANTASTIC early on in this process/crisis.  But Trump must have rubbed off on him over the weeks.  He's repeating the same stuff every day, hammering on the virus coming from Europe and the China travel ban being worthless, and repeating how well NY handled the crisis as criticism over large portions of their reaction (specifically nursing homes) came out.  We watched him every day but now its only every 3rd day or so and doesnt feel like we miss out.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 11, 2020, 11:08:36 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on May 11, 2020, 11:03:00 AM

Cuomo was FANTASTIC early on in this process/crisis.  But Trump must have rubbed off on him over the weeks.  He's repeating the same stuff every day, hammering on the virus coming from Europe and the China travel ban being worthless, and repeating how well NY handled the crisis as criticism over large portions of their reaction (specifically nursing homes) came out.  We watched him every day but now its only every 3rd day or so and doesnt feel like we miss out.

His handling of the nursing homes and covid patients will ultimately overshadow any good that he might have built up in the early weeks

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 11, 2020, 11:11:19 AM

Quote from: MU82 on May 11, 2020, 10:53:00 AM

Thanks for this, and I really didn't think you were talking about Costco.

My wife, who is an RN, said this after the Pence/Mayo and Trump/mask factory fiascos ...

"If I were the director of the Mayo Clinic or that mask factory - but especially the Mayo Clinic, an effen hospital - I would have said, 'Sorry, but you have to wear a mask. If you won't wear one, you aren't getting in. And I don't care if you're the president, the vice president or just some regular Joe.'"

In other words:

No mask ... no photo op.

I agree with your wife in principle, but POTUS has shown he can be a very spiteful man, and Mayo is dependent on federal dollars (Medicare, Medicaid, NIH research funding, etc) for its very survival. It just received a $26 million grant for its work on the Covid convalescent plasma study...critical dollars in a time where Mayo just announced across-the-board pay cuts even though most of its employees are considered essential.

If this were an ordinary POTUS, I have no doubt that Mayo would have required the VP to wear a mask. But this is no ordinary POTUS.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 11, 2020, 11:12:57 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 11, 2020, 10:50:32 AM

Agree 100%.

I lost a best friend and an aunt to suicide, and have a long history of mental illness in my family. For a long time I thought I was the one person in my family who “dodged the bullet,“ but a few setbacks taught me otherwise. Since beginning therapy a few years back, I have come to realize that our words and actions result from a complex mix of factors that we can’t even begin to define with certainty.

Mental illness is as serious as any other type of illness, and should not be joked about any more than cancer, strokes or COVID.

Best of luck with your mental health therapy, kin. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 11, 2020, 11:24:51 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 11, 2020, 10:50:32 AM

Agree 100%.

I lost a best friend and an aunt to suicide, and have a long history of mental illness in my family. For a long time I thought I was the one person in my family who “dodged the bullet,“ but a few setbacks taught me otherwise. Since beginning therapy a few years back, I have come to realize that our words and actions result from a complex mix of factors that we can’t even begin to define with certainty.

Mental illness is as serious as any other type of illness, and should not be joked about any more than cancer, strokes or COVID.

Alternatively, Zigs could just be a nicer person in general.  He says plenty of offensive things to plenty of people here, but when a hot button topic like mental health upsets him his crummy comments get forgotten.  I was never making fun of mental illness, just saying that WD has a serious problem if he can't admit that he is actually someone else.  Is he mentally ill?  I don't know, but if you're pretending to be someone you're not... then you're one of two things, mentally ill, or someone who is pretending to be... and which is worse?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 11, 2020, 11:25:32 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 11, 2020, 09:48:23 AM

I just dont find mental health digs at anyone funny or productive.   You never know what is going on in someone's head. 

I've been in therapy plus meds for 20 plus years, and have lost friends to suicide and other mental health issues

I know we don't get along Ziggy - even though I have absolutely no idea what I've ever done to you - but I truly feel for you on this, and I hope that the therapy and meds have helped you find peace and life satisfaction.

As is the case with most on this board, I also know and love plenty of people who have dealt with mental-health issues for years.

Still, I do wonder why you outwardly support those on this board who regularly take shots at transgender people, homosexuals and others who often develop serious mental-health issues because they have been belittled, bullied, discriminated against and ostracized by society.

It would seem more likely that somebody with your background would tell those people to stfu.

Again, I wish you nothing but the best.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 11, 2020, 11:33:27 AM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on May 11, 2020, 10:50:19 AM

I would like to add a new PAC would be created and pay people to not wear shirts and shoes and attempt to go into various establishments.

Carrying firearms and confederate flags too.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 11, 2020, 12:43:07 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 11, 2020, 08:41:08 AM

Some Costco members, including leaders of influential right-wing groups, are threatening to boycott the chain for requiring shoppers to wear facemasks.

What positions of leadership do these people hold and just how influential are the groups they lead? Doubt if I heard of them, but by all means let the morons boycott. I live in Naples, Fl, (Collier County, the most Republican County in the State). Everyone here is wearing masks and we re-closed our beaches when the non social distancing Democrats from the Miami area invaded last weekend. So we’re good, right?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 11, 2020, 12:45:08 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 11, 2020, 11:11:19 AM

I agree with your wife in principle, but POTUS has shown he can be a very spiteful man, and Mayo is dependent on federal dollars (Medicare, Medicaid, NIH research funding, etc) for its very survival. It just received a $26 million grant for its work on the Covid convalescent plasma study...critical dollars in a time where Mayo just announced across-the-board pay cuts even though most of its employees are considered essential.

If this were an ordinary POTUS, I have no doubt that Mayo would have required the VP to wear a mask. But this is no ordinary POTUS.

Very fair point.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: withoutbias on May 11, 2020, 01:12:54 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 11, 2020, 12:43:07 PM

What positions of leadership do these people hold and just how influential are the groups they lead? Doubt if I heard of them, but by all means let the morons boycott. I live in Naples, Fl, (Collier County, the most Republican County in the State). Everyone here is wearing masks and we re-closed our beaches when the non social distancing Democrats from the Miami area invaded last weekend. So we’re good, right?

Whataboutism.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 11, 2020, 01:36:43 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 11, 2020, 11:12:57 AM

Best of luck with your mental health therapy, kin.

Thanks. And best to you as well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 11, 2020, 01:47:32 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 11, 2020, 01:36:43 PM

Thanks. And best to you as well.

I've been there so long that they keep transferring me to the new resident every couple of years....I'm like the old gray mare.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 11, 2020, 01:52:29 PM

Mental health, like just about anything else, can be a joking matter until it lands wrong  on the wrong person.   Then you need to take that person's concerns seriously.  Ziggy, I take your struggles seriously.   Good luck to you.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 11, 2020, 02:05:27 PM

Quote from: tower912 on May 11, 2020, 01:52:29 PM

Mental health, like just about anything else, can be a joking matter until it lands wrong  on the wrong person.   Then you need to take that person's concerns seriously.  Ziggy, I take your struggles seriously.   Good luck to you.

Thanks for the kind words.

I am fine.  I'm on maintenance medication and i see my doc 2 x's a year.  But i wasnt fine before i started seeing a doc way back.  Ome of the best decisions of my life, but it took a lot to get me to that point.  (Not suicidal)  I'm open about it, because 1) it's an illness like anytime else, 2) too many guys stay silent and suffer, or take it out on their wife or kids because they don't know what to do or how to handle their brain chemistry.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 11, 2020, 02:25:49 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 11, 2020, 02:05:27 PM

Thanks for the kind words.

I am fine.  I'm on maintenance medication and i see my doc 2 x's a year.  But i wasnt fine before i started seeing a doc way back.  Ome of the best decisions of my life, but it took a lot to get me to that point.  (Not suicidal)  I'm open about it, because 1) it's an illness like anytime else, 2) too many guys stay silent and suffer, or take it out on their wife or kids because they don't know what to do or how to handle their brain chemistry.

Thanks for sharing and best of luck on your continued journey.  I have a similar experience and once I admitted I had a problem and confronted it, recovery began.  It isn’t easy taking that first step but once you do, life can become easier as long as you keep working on it

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 11, 2020, 02:35:16 PM

This is a good time to point out that we shouldn't be enemies here.   We are people who love Marquette who have differences of opinions.   Particularly right now.   The mods have allowed these threads to continue because what else do we have to talk about?   I think they more than validate the decision to stay away from politics in most situations.   Politics generate increased acrimony and snarkiness.

We all want the same thing.   We want treatments and vaccines and to open the economy and our lives back.    We differ in our assessment of how we got here and how we get there.    We are a microcosm.   We are all frustrated and anxious.   

Be patient with yourself and others.   Peace to all.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 11, 2020, 03:29:04 PM

Quote from: tower912 on May 11, 2020, 02:35:16 PM

This is a good time to point out that we shouldn't be enemies here.   We are people who love Marquette who have differences of opinions.   Particularly right now.   The mods have allowed these threads to continue because what else do we have to talk about?   I think they more than validate the decision to stay away from politics in most situations.   Politics generate increased acrimony and snarkiness.

We all want the same thing.   We want treatments and vaccines and to open the economy and our lives back.    We differ in our assessment of how we got here and how we get there.    We are a microcosm.   We are all frustrated and anxious.   

Be patient with yourself and others.   Peace to all.

I love this, tower. Thanks for saying it.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 11, 2020, 12:43:07 PM

What positions of leadership do these people hold and just how influential are the groups they lead? Doubt if I heard of them, but by all means let the morons boycott. I live in Naples, Fl, (Collier County, the most Republican County in the State). Everyone here is wearing masks and we re-closed our beaches when the non social distancing Democrats from the Miami area invaded last weekend. So we’re good, right?

Well, the one person quoted in what I posted is the co-founder of ReOpenNC, a group backed by billionaire conservatives and right-wing PACs. (You've heard of Koch and DeVos, I'm sure.) This is another Trump-loving, MAGA-hat-wearing, gun-toting, Confederate-flag-waving protest group that wants a state to re-open even if that state hasn't come close to reaching the benchmarks that Trump set. They don't wear masks, they scream in opponents' faces, they threaten to breathe and spit on people who don't agree with them, etc. They fly in the face of numerous national polls that show 2/3 of Americans, and even nearly 50% of Republicans, disagree with them.

The co-founder of the group actually quit a couple weeks ago because she felt it was deviating from the original mission.

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article242380006.html

“This movement has taken a turn that we were not in agreement with,” Cochran wrote in the post. “Ashley acted on her own yesterday with nearly inciting a riot. I have said from the beginning, we are a peaceful action group and I have carried myself that way and protected our group with every fiber of my being.”

Again, that was the co-founder of the group, a person who obviously very much wants to see the economy re-open.

As tower said, we can disagree on how we get where we all want to go, Lenny, but I like to think you agree with me that many (if not most) of these well-funded, non-grassroots protest groups are way over the top.

I'll ignore your flip line at the end of your comment because I know you're just frustrated with the situation the economy is in, as all of us are. In fact, I know that you are good people.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 11, 2020, 03:31:40 PM

Quote from: tower912 on May 11, 2020, 02:35:16 PM

This is a good time to point out that we shouldn't be enemies here.   We are people who love Marquette who have differences of opinions.   Particularly right now.   The mods have allowed these threads to continue because what else do we have to talk about?   I think they more than validate the decision to stay away from politics in most situations.   Politics generate increased acrimony and snarkiness.

We all want the same thing.   We want treatments and vaccines and to open the economy and our lives back.    We differ in our assessment of how we got here and how we get there.    We are a microcosm.   We are all frustrated and anxious.   

Be patient with yourself and others.   Peace to all.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/LpM872FjZASlTCw2uK/giphy.gif)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 11, 2020, 04:02:08 PM

Quote from: tower912 on May 11, 2020, 02:35:16 PM

This is a good time to point out that we shouldn't be enemies here.   We are people who love Marquette who have differences of opinions.   Particularly right now.   The mods have allowed these threads to continue because what else do we have to talk about?   I think they more than validate the decision to stay away from politics in most situations.   Politics generate increased acrimony and snarkiness.

We all want the same thing.   We want treatments and vaccines and to open the economy and our lives back.    We differ in our assessment of how we got here and how we get there.    We are a microcosm.   We are all frustrated and anxious.   

Be patient with yourself and others.   Peace to all.

Can we get an Amen.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 11, 2020, 04:05:22 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 11, 2020, 04:02:08 PM

Can we get an Amen.

Amen!

Tower nailed it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 11, 2020, 04:21:40 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 11, 2020, 03:29:04 PM

I love this, tower. Thanks for saying it.

Well, the one person quoted in what I posted is the co-founder of ReOpenNC, a group backed by billionaire conservatives and right-wing PACs. (You've heard of Koch and DeVos, I'm sure.) This is another Trump-loving, MAGA-hat-wearing, gun-toting, Confederate-flag-waving protest group that wants a state to re-open even if that state hasn't come close to reaching the benchmarks that Trump set. They don't wear masks, they scream in opponents' faces, they threaten to breathe and spit on people who don't agree with them, etc. They fly in the face of numerous national polls that show 2/3 of Americans, and even nearly 50% of Republicans, disagree with them.

The co-founder of the group actually quit a couple weeks ago because she felt it was deviating from the original mission.

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article242380006.html

“This movement has taken a turn that we were not in agreement with,” Cochran wrote in the post. “Ashley acted on her own yesterday with nearly inciting a riot. I have said from the beginning, we are a peaceful action group and I have carried myself that way and protected our group with every fiber of my being.”

Again, that was the co-founder of the group, a person who obviously very much wants to see the economy re-open.

As tower said, we can disagree on how we get where we all want to go, Lenny, but I like to think you agree with me that many (if not most) of these well-funded, non-grassroots protest groups are way over the top.

I'll ignore your flip line at the end of your comment because I know you're just frustrated with the situation the economy is in, as all of us are. In fact, I know that you are good people.

You commend tower for suggesting that everyine tone down the politics, and then go off on one of your unhinged political rants again in LITERALLY THE SAME POST.    :o ::) :o ::) :o ::)

You're 60 years old.  Grow up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 11, 2020, 04:25:40 PM

Ziggy, I didn't say tone down the politics.  That ship has sailed.  Like the Titanic.  Which is why a blanket no politics policy is a good idea for the mods.   I said that we aren't enemies and ultimately want the same thing.   Peace to you, my friend.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 11, 2020, 04:38:04 PM

Quote from: tower912 on May 11, 2020, 04:25:40 PM

Ziggy, I didn't say tone down the politics.  That ship has sailed.  Like the Titanic.  Which is why a blanket no politics policy is a good idea for the mods.   I said that we aren't enemies and ultimately want the same thing.   Peace to you, my friend.

My point about 82 is still valid.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 11, 2020, 04:41:40 PM

Yeah, he did jump right in.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 11, 2020, 04:44:03 PM

All workers in the west wing instructed to start wearing masks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on May 11, 2020, 04:49:37 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on May 11, 2020, 04:44:03 PM

All workers in the west wing instructed to start wearing masks.

Expect one

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 11, 2020, 04:55:28 PM

Quote from: reinko on May 11, 2020, 04:49:37 PM

Expect one

Are you implying that he actually does work?  ;D ;D

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 11, 2020, 05:00:50 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on May 11, 2020, 04:44:03 PM

All workers in the west wing instructed to start wearing masks.

Martin Sheen?   Allison Janney?   Rob Lowe?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 11, 2020, 05:05:46 PM

Gotta love it. After the fact that Covid19 is starting to spread around the Capitol building people will start wearing masks there.

At least the country’s leadership is consistent in being reactionary in everything regarding a deadly virus rather than proactive towards the issue.

Equal opportunity mishandling.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 11, 2020, 05:07:03 PM

Quote from: wadesworld on May 11, 2020, 05:05:46 PM

Gotta love it. After the fact that Covid19 is starting to spread around the Capitol building people will start wearing masks there.

At least the country’s leadership is consistent in being reactionary in everything regarding a deadly virus rather than proactive towards the issue.

Equal opportunity mishandling.

American Exceptionalism

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 11, 2020, 06:08:16 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 11, 2020, 11:08:36 AM

His handling of the nursing homes and covid patients will ultimately overshadow any good that he might have built up in the early weeks

Cuomo today started calling COVID "the European virus."

What a racist.  And what a cave to the communist party in China.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 11, 2020, 06:15:24 PM

Quote from: tower912 on May 11, 2020, 05:00:50 PM

Martin Sheen?   Allison Janney?   Rob Lowe?

Nice.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 11, 2020, 06:19:39 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 11, 2020, 04:55:28 PM

Are you implying that he actually does work?  ;D ;D

Lots of problems in Washington. Trump’s work ethic is not one of them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 11, 2020, 06:26:29 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 11, 2020, 06:19:39 PM

Lots of problems in Washington. Trump’s work ethic is not one of them.

So this is how far things have fallen.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 11, 2020, 06:43:58 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 11, 2020, 06:19:39 PM

Lots of problems in Washington. Trump’s work ethic is not one of them.

Uh...what?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 11, 2020, 06:46:15 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 11, 2020, 06:26:29 PM

So this is how far things have fallen.

Yep. Things have “fallen” to the point where some favor legitimate criticism over phony BS.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 11, 2020, 06:47:01 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 11, 2020, 06:08:16 PM

Cuomo today started calling COVID "the European virus."

What a racist.  And what a cave to the communist party in China.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1220818115354923009?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 11, 2020, 07:05:52 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 11, 2020, 06:46:15 PM

Yep. Things have “fallen” to the point where some favor legitimate criticism over phony BS.

What is your opinion of him tweeting all day yesterday about the FBI and Obama?  No mention of Mother's Day, nor the 80k dead Americans.

Busy day, indeed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 11, 2020, 07:15:10 PM

Has anyone ever seen a president abandon his own press conference because he didn’t like the questions?

“Ask China!”

Unreal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 11, 2020, 07:18:28 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 11, 2020, 07:15:10 PM

Has anyone ever seen a president abandon his own press conference because he didn’t like the questions?

“Ask China!”

Unreal.

Did someone say "Thanks, Craig" to whoever asked the question?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 11, 2020, 07:25:44 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on May 11, 2020, 06:47:01 PM

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1220818115354923009?s=19

There's a Trump tweet for everything. 

and my post was about Cuomo.  Stay on topic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on May 11, 2020, 07:32:16 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 11, 2020, 07:25:44 PM

Stay on topic.

You must be new here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 11, 2020, 07:42:39 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on May 11, 2020, 07:32:16 PM

You must be new here.

Ban dis guy.^^^^

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: CreightonWarrior on May 11, 2020, 08:15:51 PM

Fully support a boycott of Costco. The place is and always will be a zoo. The less people to fight me for samples the better.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on May 11, 2020, 08:20:04 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 11, 2020, 07:18:28 PM

Did someone say "Thanks, Craig" to whoever asked the question?

Well played.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 11, 2020, 08:48:19 PM

Quote from: CreightonWarrior on May 11, 2020, 08:15:51 PM

Fully support a boycott of Costco. The place is and always will be a zoo. The less people to fight me for samples the better.

Costco samples have gone to the great beyond, never to return. RIP.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 11, 2020, 08:50:36 PM

While the numbers have traditionally dropped on weekends and the following Monday, the past few numbers both cases and deaths are down even over the last few weekends. An anomaly, only based on the plummeting NY numbers, or something else?
No idea, but maybe some good news?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 11, 2020, 08:53:50 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 11, 2020, 06:19:39 PM

Lots of problems in Washington. Trump’s work ethic is not one of them.

Teal?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 11, 2020, 08:57:30 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on May 11, 2020, 08:53:50 PM

Teal?

Maybe if you include his “executive time.” 😴

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 11, 2020, 09:48:14 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 11, 2020, 07:05:52 PM

What is your opinion of him tweeting all day yesterday about the FBI and Obama? 

My opinion of what Comey, McCabe, Strok, et al did under the guise of “law enforcement” is very, very low. So is my opinion of a media that insists on carrying their water. The dishonest hit job that Chuck Todd pulled Sunday on “Meet the Press” re Attorney General Barr should disgust every American. Trump should shut his mouth, though, and let Durham finish his investigation. The docs we’ve seen are troubling and evidently there is a lot more to come.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 11, 2020, 09:49:48 PM

Sign that you might have lost your mind while sheltering-in-place: you tweet or retweet 125 times in the span of 16 hours.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 11, 2020, 10:27:44 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 11, 2020, 09:48:14 PM

My opinion of what Comey, McCabe, Strok, et al did under the guise of “law enforcement” is very, very low. So is my opinion of a media that insists on carrying their water. The dishonest hit job that Chuck Todd pulled Sunday on “Meet the Press” re Attorney General Barr should disgust every American. Trump should shut his mouth, though, and let Durham finish his investigation. The docs we’ve seen are troubling and evidently there is a lot more to come.

Side stepped one question and ignored the other.  You should run for mayor of Naples!

BTW great presser today.  But I guess the highlights weren't on Fox News so you probably missed the coward in chief run away from questions that are too hard for him to answer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 11, 2020, 10:28:35 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 11, 2020, 04:21:40 PM

You commend tower for suggesting that everyine tone down the politics, and then go off on one of your unhinged political rants again in LITERALLY THE SAME POST.    :o ::) :o ::) :o ::)

You're 60 years old.  Grow up.

I answered the question that Lenny directly asked me. And I treated him with respect in my comment, which is more than you do to most Scoopers most of the time. Get over yourself.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 11, 2020, 10:43:15 PM

Another study, this time by the CDC, that indicates that we are undercounting COVID deaths.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/pdfs/mm6919e5-H.pdf

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 11, 2020, 10:51:30 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 11, 2020, 12:43:07 PM

Everyone here is wearing masks and we re-closed our beaches when the non social distancing Democrats from the Miami area invaded last weekend. So we’re good, right?

Were you checking beach-goers' voter records or were there some other distinctive characteristics that led you to conclude your community's guests from Miami are Democrats?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 11, 2020, 11:17:10 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 11, 2020, 10:27:44 PM

BTW great presser today.  But I guess the highlights weren't on Fox News so you probably missed the coward in chief run away from questions that are too hard for him to answer.

The running away part was odd, but the part that is truly frightening was his circular rhetoric about “Obamagate.”

REPORTER: ONE OF YOUR MOTHER'S DAY TWEETS YOU APPEARED TO ACCUSE PRESIDENT OBAMA OF ONE OF -- OF THE BIGGEST POLITICAL CRIME IN AMERICAN HISTORY BY FAR. THOSE WERE YOUR WORDS. WHAT ARE YOU ACCUSING PRESIDENT OBAMA OF COMMITTING AND YOU BELIEVE THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT SHOULD PERSECUTE HIM?

TRUMP: OBAMAGATE. IT'S BEEN GOING ON A LONG TIME, FROM BEFORE I EVEN GOT ELECTED, AND IT IS A DISGRACE THAT IT HAPPENED. IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT HAS GONE ON AND ALL OF THIS INFORMATION THAT IS BEING RELEASED -- FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, IT IS ONLY THE BEGINNING. SOME TERRIBLE THINGS HAPPENED, AND IT SHOULD NEVER BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN IN OUR COUNTRY AGAIN. YOU WILL BE SEEING WHAT GOES ON OVER THE COMING WEEKS AND I WISH YOU WOULD WRITE HONESTLY ABOUT IT, BUT YOU CHOOSE NOT TO DO SO.

REPORTER: WHAT IS THE CRIME EXACTLY THAT YOU ARE ACCUSING HIM OF?

TRUMP: YOU KNOW WHAT THE CRIME IS. THE CRIME IS OBVIOUS TO EVERYBODY. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS READ THE NEWSPAPERS

Ummmm, ok.

I really worry about our safety as a nation when - in the middle of the biggest crisis in a century - our president creates (and even names) some unspecified crime, won’t answer a single question about it, but claims it is “obvious to everybody.” He seems like a very desperate man who can’t keep his eye on the crisis at hand, but instead focuses on some unnamed offenses from the past.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 11, 2020, 11:26:46 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 11, 2020, 03:29:04 PM

Well, the one person quoted in what I posted is the co-founder of ReOpenNC, a group backed by billionaire conservatives and right-wing PACs. (You've heard of Koch and DeVos, I'm sure.) This is another Trump-loving, MAGA-hat-wearing, gun-toting, Confederate-flag-waving protest group that wants a state to re-open even if that state hasn't come close to reaching the benchmarks that Trump set. They don't wear masks, they scream in opponents' faces, they threaten to breathe and spit on people who don't agree with them, etc. They fly in the face of numerous national polls that show 2/3 of Americans, and even nearly 50% of Republicans, disagree with them.

The co-founder of the group actually quit a couple weeks ago because she felt it was deviating from the original mission.

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article242380006.html

“This movement has taken a turn that we were not in agreement with,” Cochran wrote in the post. “Ashley acted on her own yesterday with nearly inciting a riot. I have said from the beginning, we are a peaceful action group and I have carried myself that way and protected our group with every fiber of my being.”

Again, that was the co-founder of the group, a person who obviously very much wants to see the economy re-open.

As tower said, we can disagree on how we get where we all want to go, Lenny, but I like to think you agree with me that many (if not most) of these well-funded, non-grassroots protest groups are way over the top.

I'll ignore your flip line at the end of your comment because I know you're just frustrated with the situation the economy is in, as all of us are. In fact, I know that you are good people.

Mike, with all due respect how “well funded” does a group have to be to buy a few MAGA hats and a Confederate flag or two? I put as much faith in your Koch brothers conspiracy as I do the George Soros ones cooked up on the right.

To claim that the few protesters carrying Confederate flags (I’ve seen none, but hundreds carrying American flags) are part of some large, influential group makes for a good rant. Doesn’t make it so.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 11, 2020, 11:29:35 PM

Someone who isn’t afraid to speak honestly about the science:

Fauci will issue a stark warning on the risks of reopening too soon.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/11/us/coronavirus-updates.html#link-6f63d836

“The major message that I wish to convey to the Senate HLP committee tomorrow is the danger of trying to open the country prematurely,” he wrote. “If we skip over the checkpoints in the guidelines to: ‘Open America Again,’ then we risk the danger of multiple outbreaks throughout the country. This will not only result in needless suffering and death, but would actually set us back on our quest to return to normal.”

Dr. Fauci was referring to a three-phase White House plan, Opening Up America Again, that lays out guidelines for state officials considering reopening their economies. Among its recommendations: States should have a “downward trajectory of positive tests” or a “downward trajectory of documented cases” of coronavirus over two weeks, while conducting robust contact tracing and “sentinel surveillance” testing of asymptomatic people in vulnerable populations, such as nursing homes.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 11, 2020, 11:36:24 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 11, 2020, 10:51:30 PM

Were you checking beach-goers' voter records or were there some other distinctive characteristics that led you to conclude your community's guests from Miami are Democrats?

65% of we mask wearing Collier County folks are Rs. The same % of the massless invaders from Miami-Dade are Ds.
Math.

(It was a joke)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 11, 2020, 11:43:55 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 11, 2020, 10:27:44 PM

Side stepped one question and ignored the other.  You should run for mayor of Naples!

BTW great presser today.  But I guess the highlights weren't on Fox News so you probably missed the coward in chief run away from questions that are too hard for him to answer.

The entire, unedited pressers are on Fox.

The edited “highlights” are found elsewhere.

In your opinion, which would be most likely to fall prey to bias?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 11, 2020, 11:48:38 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 11, 2020, 11:17:10 PM

WHAT ARE YOU ACCUSING PRESIDENT OBAMA OF COMMITTING AND YOU BELIEVE THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT SHOULD PERSECUTE HIM?

PERSECUTE? LOL.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 11, 2020, 11:54:16 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 11, 2020, 11:48:38 PM

PERSECUTE? LOL.

It was just what I cut and pasted from C-SPAN’s version of the transcript. Guess they need better editors.

Then again, with Trump in charge, maybe he really did mean persecute...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 12, 2020, 06:49:25 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 11, 2020, 11:17:10 PM

The running away part was odd, but the part that is truly frightening was his circular rhetoric about “Obamagate.”

REPORTER: ONE OF YOUR MOTHER'S DAY TWEETS YOU APPEARED TO ACCUSE PRESIDENT OBAMA OF ONE OF -- OF THE BIGGEST POLITICAL CRIME IN AMERICAN HISTORY BY FAR. THOSE WERE YOUR WORDS. WHAT ARE YOU ACCUSING PRESIDENT OBAMA OF COMMITTING AND YOU BELIEVE THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT SHOULD PERSECUTE HIM?

TRUMP: OBAMAGATE. IT'S BEEN GOING ON A LONG TIME, FROM BEFORE I EVEN GOT ELECTED, AND IT IS A DISGRACE THAT IT HAPPENED. IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT HAS GONE ON AND ALL OF THIS INFORMATION THAT IS BEING RELEASED -- FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, IT IS ONLY THE BEGINNING. SOME TERRIBLE THINGS HAPPENED, AND IT SHOULD NEVER BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN IN OUR COUNTRY AGAIN. YOU WILL BE SEEING WHAT GOES ON OVER THE COMING WEEKS AND I WISH YOU WOULD WRITE HONESTLY ABOUT IT, BUT YOU CHOOSE NOT TO DO SO.

REPORTER: WHAT IS THE CRIME EXACTLY THAT YOU ARE ACCUSING HIM OF?

TRUMP: YOU KNOW WHAT THE CRIME IS. THE CRIME IS OBVIOUS TO EVERYBODY. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS READ THE NEWSPAPERS

Ummmm, ok.

I really worry about our safety as a nation when - in the middle of the biggest crisis in a century - our president creates (and even names) some unspecified crime, won’t answer a single question about it, but claims it is “obvious to everybody.” He seems like a very desperate man who can’t keep his eye on the crisis at hand, but instead focuses on some unnamed offenses from the past.

He’s been doing stuff like this since the day he announced he was running. It’s what cracks me up when conservatives get all worked up about the mental stability of “sleepy Joe” when he stumbles to answer a question once a month but completely turn a blind eye to the guy who makes things up like a three year old.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 12, 2020, 07:01:05 AM

Quote from: wadesworld on May 12, 2020, 06:49:25 AM

He’s been doing stuff like this since the day he announced he was running. It’s what cracks me up when conservatives get all worked up about the mental stability of “sleepy Joe” when he stumbles to answer a question once a month but completely turn a blind eye to the guy who makes things up like a three year old.

When you snort adderall all day, it’s hard not to act like an unhinged lunatic

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 12, 2020, 07:22:52 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 11, 2020, 11:36:24 PM

65% of we mask wearing Collier County folks are Rs. The same % of the massless invaders from Miami-Dade are Ds.
Math.

(It was a joke)

Ah, my bad.
Jokes usually feature some element of humor, so that's what threw me off.  :)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 12, 2020, 07:47:40 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on May 11, 2020, 10:43:15 PM

Another study, this time by the CDC, that indicates that we are undercounting COVID deaths.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/pdfs/mm6919e5-H.pdf

When this is all said and done I'll be curious to see the statistical analysis of causes of death this year versus previous years. I have no doubt that in real time we are not counting some deaths that are attributed to Covid. I also think we are counting deaths to Covid that are really attributed to other causes or were somehow inevitable anyone (someone on hospice with two weeks to live then contracts the virus and dies, etc).

Not clear on how prevalent and of this is, but it is clear that as a society we have a long way to go to improve our data literacy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 12, 2020, 07:52:21 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 12, 2020, 07:47:40 AM

When this is all said and done I'll be curious to see the statistical analysis of causes of death this year versus previous years. I have no doubt that in real time we are not counting some deaths that are attributed to Covid. I also think we are counting deaths to Covid that are really attributed to other causes or were somehow inevitable anyone (someone on hospice with two weeks to live then contracts the virus and dies, etc).

Not clear on how prevalent and of this is, but it is clear that as a society we have a long way to go to improve our data literacy.

Anecdotally it all makes sense That we misattribute and miss deaths. 

I think everyone needs to take a step back and try to remember why we count in the first place.  We are trying to understand the magnitude of the problem, whether or not we have it in control and to allocate resources.   

Personally, I think we are close enough for those purposes and that’s validated through the excess death research.  So I don’t know what the fuss is about. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 12, 2020, 08:00:51 AM

A nursing home in my district sent 3 to the hospital yesterday with multiple COVID symptoms.   All in their 80s, all in the last lap of their life.   All death is inevitable.  But if any of those die in the coming days, I think it fair to call it COVID related.  Whether it was from the virus itself or from it wearing out their already frail be bodies.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 12, 2020, 08:08:03 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 11, 2020, 11:17:10 PM

I really worry about our safety as a nation when - in the middle of the biggest crisis in a century - our president creates (and even names) some unspecified crime, won’t answer a single question about it, but claims it is “obvious to everybody.” He seems like a very desperate man who can’t keep his eye on the crisis at hand, but instead focuses on some unnamed offenses from the past.

What is there to worry about? Honest Bill Barr is on the case. I'm sure he'll release a 5 page summary soon.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 12, 2020, 08:31:15 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 11, 2020, 11:26:46 PM

Mike, with all due respect how “well funded” does a group have to be to buy a few MAGA hats and a Confederate flag or two? I put as much faith in your Koch brothers conspiracy as I do the George Soros ones cooked up on the right.

To claim that the few protesters carrying Confederate flags (I’ve seen none, but hundreds carrying American flags) are part of some large, influential group makes for a good rant. Doesn’t make it so.

We will agree to disagree on much of this, Lenny. Have a nice day.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 12, 2020, 08:35:30 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 11, 2020, 09:48:14 PM

My opinion of what Comey, McCabe, Strok, et al did under the guise of “law enforcement” is very, very low. So is my opinion of a media that insists on carrying their water. The dishonest hit job that Chuck Todd pulled Sunday on “Meet the Press” re Attorney General Barr should disgust every American. Trump should shut his mouth, though, and let Durham finish his investigation. The docs we’ve seen are troubling and evidently there is a lot more to come.

Yeahhhhh, OK.

I'm not even going to touch this one, but it's backwards as the things Barr has done should disgust every American.

End of any further response.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 12, 2020, 08:39:15 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 11, 2020, 11:17:10 PM

OBAMAGATE. IT'S BEEN GOING ON A LONG TIME, FROM BEFORE I EVEN GOT ELECTED, AND IT IS A DISGRACE THAT IT HAPPENED. IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT HAS GONE ON AND ALL OF THIS INFORMATION THAT IS BEING RELEASED -- FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, IT IS ONLY THE BEGINNING. SOME TERRIBLE THINGS HAPPENED, AND IT SHOULD NEVER BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN IN OUR COUNTRY AGAIN. YOU WILL BE SEEING WHAT GOES ON OVER THE COMING WEEKS AND I WISH YOU WOULD WRITE HONESTLY ABOUT IT, BUT YOU CHOOSE NOT TO DO SO.

YOU KNOW WHAT THE CRIME IS. THE CRIME IS OBVIOUS TO EVERYBODY. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS READ THE NEWSPAPERS[/i]

This is scary stuff. Stalinist stuff. Putinish stuff. Name a murderous despot, and this is the kind of stuff he pulled.

I guess President Pandemic has little choice but to charge his predecessor with unnamed crimes now, though. He is one of the most disapproved-of presidents since approval polls were born 70+ years ago, and his inaction and lies contributed to a crisis that will result in the deaths of 100K+ Americans.

He spent 8 years trying (and failing) to prove that his predecessor was a Kenyan Muslim, so he might as well take another crack at him here.

As he liked to say before pushing a deadly, unvetted drug on COVID-19 patients (but a drug he no longer mentions because somebody finally was able to convince him that it was deadly and unvetted): What does he have to lose?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 12, 2020, 08:39:59 AM

Quote from: MU82 on May 12, 2020, 08:31:15 AM

We will agree to disagree on much of this, Lenny. Have a nice day.

You too, Mike.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 12, 2020, 08:43:23 AM

Could we maybe keep this thread on topic and focus political responses to the pandemic?  Seriously guys, it's not hard. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 12, 2020, 08:47:12 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 11, 2020, 11:29:35 PM

Someone who isn’t afraid to speak honestly about the science:

Fauci will issue a stark warning on the risks of reopening too soon.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/11/us/coronavirus-updates.html#link-6f63d836

“The major message that I wish to convey to the Senate HLP committee tomorrow is the danger of trying to open the country prematurely,” he wrote. “If we skip over the checkpoints in the guidelines to: ‘Open America Again,’ then we risk the danger of multiple outbreaks throughout the country. This will not only result in needless suffering and death, but would actually set us back on our quest to return to normal.”

Dr. Fauci was referring to a three-phase White House plan, Opening Up America Again, that lays out guidelines for state officials considering reopening their economies. Among its recommendations: States should have a “downward trajectory of positive tests” or a “downward trajectory of documented cases” of coronavirus over two weeks, while conducting robust contact tracing and “sentinel surveillance” testing of asymptomatic people in vulnerable populations, such as nursing homes.

So ... who to believe ...

A renowned doctor who has been a leader in the infectious disease field for decades and has been a trusted adviser to Reagan, Bush Sr, Clinton, Bush Jr and Obama?

Or a science-denying, conspiracy-pushing reality TV host whose numbers are cratering, who recently pushed both a deadly unvetted drug and the injection of Lysol into the lungs, and who desperately is trying to get re-elected?

It's a really, really difficult choice.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 12, 2020, 08:47:47 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 12, 2020, 07:52:21 AM

Anecdotally it all makes sense That we misattribute and miss deaths. 

I think everyone needs to take a step back and try to remember why we count in the first place.  We are trying to understand the magnitude of the problem, whether or not we have it in control and to allocate resources.   

Personally, I think we are close enough for those purposes and that’s validated through the excess death research.  So I don’t know what the fuss is about.

Well said, Frenns. Adding or subtracting to score political points helps nobody.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 12, 2020, 08:48:50 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 12, 2020, 08:43:23 AM

Could we maybe keep this thread on topic and focus political responses to the pandemic?  Seriously guys, it's not hard.

With all due respect, the behavior and tweets of POTUS in the middle of a pandemic that demands an 'all hands on deck' approach is related to the pandemic, because it shows that his focus is not on the critical issue of the day.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 12, 2020, 08:54:49 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 12, 2020, 08:48:50 AM

With all due respect, the behavior and tweets of POTUS in the middle of a pandemic that demands an 'all hands on deck' approach is related to the pandemic, because it shows that his focus is not on the critical issue of the day.

No.  Sorry.  That's a lame excuse to let you unleash whatever opinions you wish.  Quoting about his weird "Obamagate" diatribe lends nothing to the topic.  Everyone knows he's distracted and doesn't want to talk about the pandemic. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 12, 2020, 09:05:23 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 12, 2020, 08:35:30 AM

Yeahhhhh, OK.

I'm not even going to touch this one, but it's backwards as the things Barr has done should disgust every American.

End of any further response.

You missed your opportunity to pull a ChicosDad and selectively quote Lenny.  Here, let me show you. This is what Lenny said:

"Attorney General Barr should disgust every American."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 12, 2020, 09:08:24 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 12, 2020, 08:54:49 AM

No.  Sorry.  That's a lame excuse to let you unleash whatever opinions you wish.  Quoting about his weird "Obamagate" diatribe lends nothing to the topic.  Everyone knows he's distracted and doesn't want to talk about the pandemic.

Guess we're gonna have to disagree. The more distracted he is, the more lives we lose.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 12, 2020, 09:08:35 AM

Dr. Fauci and others are about to testify to the Senate this morning.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on May 12, 2020, 09:16:25 AM

We hung a banner!
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-rsrBA_z65Uo/XrodGR5FHOI/AAAAAAAAKcw/glN9HjTtNzgjWsrd7deYoilldsU11WCFgCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/trumps%2Bmission%2Baccomplished.jpg)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 12, 2020, 09:18:17 AM

What will be more entertaining and educational?   Fauci in front of the Senate?  Or Supreme Court arguments over the subpoena of Trump's tax records?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 12, 2020, 09:19:03 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 12, 2020, 09:08:24 AM

Guess we're gonna have to disagree. The more distracted he is, the more lives we lose.

I'd argue that the less trump is saying and tweeting dumb things, the better off we are.

Let the bureaucrats handle the logistics and planning, and keep trump focusing on the issue of the minute in his mind.

Edit to clarify:  the less he is tweeting amd talking about covid, the better we are.  Let him keep tweeting and talking about whatever else pops in to his mind.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 12, 2020, 09:19:50 AM

Quote from: tower912 on May 12, 2020, 09:18:17 AM

What will be more entertaining and educational?   Fauci in front of the Senate?  Or Supreme Court arguments over the subpoena of Trump's tax records?

Both have the potential for a flush in the background - so push?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 12, 2020, 09:20:46 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 12, 2020, 08:43:23 AM

Could we maybe keep this thread on topic and focus political responses to the pandemic?  Seriously guys, it's not hard.

Thanks for trying to reason with the poo throwers.  Good luck.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 12, 2020, 09:21:40 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 12, 2020, 09:19:03 AM

Let the bureaucrats handle the logistics and planning, and keep trump focusing on the issue of the minute in his mind.

This has been a major failure in our ability to rally together as a country.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 12, 2020, 09:24:23 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 12, 2020, 09:19:50 AM

Both have the potential for a flush in the background - so push?

Ha!    Nice. 

 I think Ziggy is on to something.   Leadership is finding competent people, giving them a goal, guidance, and resources.  The president would be better off hushing up. I just don't believe he can help himself.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 12, 2020, 09:24:58 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 12, 2020, 09:08:24 AM

Guess we're gonna have to disagree. The more distracted he is, the more lives we lose.

Gonna have to disagree here. There might be second or third order effects, but the orange buffoon being distracted for a couple of days doesn't correlate directly to further deaths, this is just hyperbolic. It's just not how the federalism works

Inherently the problem is that all sides (left, right, and media) have politicized the pandemic. The right is astroturfing the loss of rights and "acktullay it's just the flu". The left is turning this into another front on the #resistance campaign and generally seeing this as an opportunity to win/landslide in November. The media is amplifying all its worst instincts (if it bleeds it leads, selective usage of data, gotcha journalism, tribalism) which is sharpening the political divide.

None of this is an argument for or against anyone simply trying to articulate what I'm seeing as a dispassionate observer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 12, 2020, 09:41:18 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 12, 2020, 09:19:03 AM

I'd argue that [u]the less trump is saying and tweeting dumb things, the better off we are[/u].

Let the bureaucrats handle the logistics and planning, and keep trump focusing on the issue of the minute in his mind.

Agree 100%. That's why I think it is relevant - and frightening - that he still is saying and tweeting dumb things in the midst of a crisis.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 12, 2020, 09:44:09 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 12, 2020, 09:21:40 AM

This has been a major failure in our ability to rally together as a country.

Agreed. If POTUS would just let Fauci, CDC and other experts do their things without contradicting them, we would be in a much better place.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 12, 2020, 09:53:21 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 12, 2020, 09:24:58 AM

Gonna have to disagree here. There might be second or third order effects, but the orange buffoon being distracted for a couple of days doesn't correlate directly to further deaths, this is just hyperbolic. It's just not how the federalism works

Inherently the problem is that all sides (left, right, and media) have politicized the pandemic. The right is astroturfing the loss of rights and "acktullay it's just the flu". The left is turning this into another front on the #resistance campaign and generally seeing this as an opportunity to win/landslide in November. The media is amplifying all its worst instincts (if it bleeds it leads, selective usage of data, gotcha journalism, tribalism) which is sharpening the political divide.

None of this is an argument for or against anyone simply trying to articulate what I'm seeing as a dispassionate observer.

Sorry, but I simply want POTUS to let the scientists and epidemiologists do their things, without contradicting them and distracting the public into thinking that the crisis is somewhere else. Does that make me "left," "right," or simply American?

Suppressing the full CDC reopening plan; putting federal resources "right behind" the states instead of in the lead; making false statements about the availability of testing and then questioning whether it's even needed; making public recommendations for 'treatments' that have no basis in science; calling for the 'liberation' of states that don't meet any of the CDC's reopening criteria - all of these things hamper our ability to deal with the crisis at hand. If all that isn't directly related to the COVID crisis, we might just as well shut this entire thread down....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 12, 2020, 09:59:47 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 12, 2020, 09:53:21 AM

Sorry, but I simply want POTUS to let the scientists and epidemiologists do their things, without contradicting them and distracting the public into thinking that the crisis is somewhere else. Does that make me "left," "right," or simply American?

Suppressing the full CDC reopening plan; putting federal resources "right behind" the states instead of in the lead; making false statements about the availability of testing and then questioning whether it's even needed; making public recommendations for 'treatments' that have no basis in science; calling for the 'liberation' of states that don't meet any of the CDC's reopening criteria - all of these things hamper our ability to deal with the crisis at hand. If all that isn't directly related to the COVID crisis, we might just as well shut this entire thread down....

Wouldn't it be refreshing if the President learned that taking credit for putting really smart people in top positions was a better strategy than trying to take credit for things he clearly does not understand?  He doesn't need to answer questions, but simply to defer to the person who knows the answer to the question being asked.  Totally simple, something that shows he is a leader, and something he can take credit for without being attacked for or looking like a moron daily.  But we don't live in that world.

I, for one, knew we were in a messed up timeline when Leicester City became champs.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on May 12, 2020, 10:16:27 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 12, 2020, 09:59:47 AM

I, for one, knew we were in a messed up timeline when Leicester City became champs.

I still think this whole Corona thing is a hoax to stop my LFC from winning the Premier League.  Probably propagated by Man U supporters!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 12, 2020, 10:17:21 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 12, 2020, 09:24:58 AM

Gonna have to disagree here. There might be second or third order effects, but the orange buffoon being distracted for a couple of days doesn't correlate directly to further deaths, this is just hyperbolic. It's just not how the federalism works

Inherently the problem is that all sides (left, right, and media) have politicized the pandemic. The right is astroturfing the loss of rights and "acktullay it's just the flu". The left is turning this into another front on the #resistance campaign and generally seeing this as an opportunity to win/landslide in November. The media is amplifying all its worst instincts (if it bleeds it leads, selective usage of data, gotcha journalism, tribalism) which is sharpening the political divide.

None of this is an argument for or against anyone simply trying to articulate what I'm seeing as a dispassionate observer.

And by the way, it’s pretty ironic that you are referring to him as “the orange buffoon,“ while I am talking about his actual words and actions.

And you are calling me the overly political one?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 12, 2020, 10:34:02 AM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on May 12, 2020, 10:16:27 AM

I still think this whole Corona thing is a hoax to stop my LFC from winning the Premier League.  Probably propagated by Man U supporters!

Abandon the season now!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on May 12, 2020, 10:43:46 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 12, 2020, 09:41:18 AM

Agree 100%. That's why I think it is relevant - and frightening - that he still is saying and tweeting dumb things in the midst of a crisis.

David Roth is the foremost authority on understanding all things Trump imo.  Once you read a couple of his columns and start seeing this administration's actions and messaging through that lens, you kind of can't unsee it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on May 12, 2020, 10:54:29 AM

Quote from: MUBurrow on May 12, 2020, 10:43:46 AM

David Roth is the foremost authority on understanding all things Trump imo.  Once you read a couple of his columns and start seeing this administration's actions and messaging through that lens, you kind of can't unsee it.

The dude from Deadspin? He’s about as unbiased and impartial as citing someone from a Bretibart as a foremost authority on the inner workings of the Obama administration. I’m no Trump fan but let’s be reasonable

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 12, 2020, 11:05:06 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on May 12, 2020, 10:54:29 AM

The dude from Deadspin? He’s about as unbiased and impartial as citing someone from a Bretibart as a foremost authority on the inner workings of the Obama administration. I’m no Trump fan but let’s be reasonable

You said it better than me.  Lmao on that "expert."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 12, 2020, 11:23:53 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 12, 2020, 09:59:47 AM

Wouldn't it be refreshing if the President learned that taking credit for putting really smart people in top positions was a better strategy than trying to take credit for things he clearly does not understand?  He doesn't need to answer questions, but simply to defer to the person who knows the answer to the question being asked.  Totally simple, something that shows he is a leader, and something he can take credit for without being attacked for or looking like a moron daily.  But we don't live in that world.

I, for one, knew we were in a messed up timeline when Leicester City became champs.

I think that's true of most politicians as well. How often do you have congressmen making definitive statements about topics they clearly have little understanding? He just seems to be worse than most.

Also agree that the best defer to experts, regardless of office.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on May 12, 2020, 11:36:01 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on May 12, 2020, 10:54:29 AM

The dude from Deadspin? He’s about as unbiased and impartial as citing someone from a Bretibart as a foremost authority on the inner workings of the Obama administration. I’m no Trump fan but let’s be reasonable

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 12, 2020, 11:05:06 AM

You said it better than me.  Lmao on that "expert."

He's an opinion writer, not a news source. I'm not trying to contrast him against on the ground reporting - you can't read Roth and think you're reading Yamiche Alcindor.  But I find him far more useful than Cilizza or the NYTs editorial page or any other opinion writer that has a vested interest in making all of this seem like four dimensional chess.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 12, 2020, 11:40:40 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 12, 2020, 10:17:21 AM

And by the way, it’s pretty ironic that you are referring to him as “the orange buffoon,“ while I am talking about his actual words and actions.

And you are calling me the overly political one?

When did I point to you as overly political? I've made zero political commentary to date....hell I have commented in this thread in like 2 weeks.

And calling him an orange buffoon is in no way political, I'm insulting his intelligence, not his political decisions/positions. There are lots of politicians that I think are buffoons but that doesn't determine whether I agree or disagree with their political positions/actions

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 12, 2020, 11:42:15 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on May 12, 2020, 10:54:29 AM

The dude from Deadspin? He’s about as unbiased and impartial as citing someone from a Bretibart as a foremost authority on the inner workings of the Obama administration. I’m no Trump fan but let’s be reasonable

Nah, this dude. He's got the insights.

(https://shanelovesmusic.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/diamond-dave.jpg)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 12, 2020, 11:48:36 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on May 12, 2020, 11:42:15 AM

Nah, this dude. He's got the insights.

(https://shanelovesmusic.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/diamond-dave.jpg)

I'd rather read David Lee Roth's take on Trump over some hack at deadspin (he quit) that was writing summaries on the back of baseball cards 10 years ago.

Other people that i would rather read than David Roth:

Tommy Lee
Tommy Lee Jones
Tom Jones
Uli Jon Roth
Bob Ross
Ross Geller
Betsy Ross
Betsy Draper

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 12, 2020, 11:57:03 AM

Another wonderful protest by some deep thinkers in Raleigh.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article242668401.html?

Protesters gathered in downtown Raleigh for a fifth week Tuesday, calling for Gov. Roy Cooper to immediately reopen North Carolina and cancel restrictions on business.

The Reopen NC group had drawn more than a thousand in earlier protests but saw its numbers dwindle last week and again Tuesday, with about 200 people each week.

“We don’t have the numbers we thought we were going to have,” said organizer Adam Smith, “but God bless every one of you. Every one of you is worth 50 men.”

After he spoke, another protester suggested a campaign to personally thank every person not wearing a face mask.

Yes, because scientists were just saying that the one thing we really need to end the pandemic and get the economy going again are fewer people wearing facemasks at public gatherings.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 12, 2020, 11:58:01 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on May 12, 2020, 10:54:29 AM

The dude from Deadspin? He’s about as unbiased and impartial as citing someone from a Bretibart as a foremost authority on the inner workings of the Obama administration. I’m no Trump fan but let’s be reasonable

No, the cat from Van Halen.  He dropped the middle name when he moved to PANAMA!

edit: Crap, beaten to the joke

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: buckchuckler on May 12, 2020, 12:02:41 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on May 12, 2020, 11:42:15 AM

Nah, this dude. He's got the insights.

(https://shanelovesmusic.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/diamond-dave.jpg)

Hot Take! I think I kind of prefer Sammy Hagar.  In Van Halen!  Not Gary Cherone though

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 12, 2020, 12:28:03 PM

Quote from: buckchuckler on May 12, 2020, 12:02:41 PM

Hot Take! I think I kind of prefer Sammy Hagar.  In Van Halen! 

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/843166c9d3dc66da2ad9ecf63a4e80cb/tenor.gif?itemid=12221156)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 12, 2020, 03:40:28 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 12, 2020, 11:40:40 AM

When did I point to you as overly political? I've made zero political commentary to date....hell I have commented in this thread in like 2 weeks.

And calling him an orange buffoon is in no way political, I'm insulting his intelligence, not his political decisions/positions. There are lots of politicians that I think are buffoons but that doesn't determine whether I agree or disagree with their political positions/actions

Your response to my post included a couple of paragraphs about this becoming too political. I assumed - perhaps incorrectly- that you were using my post as an example of that.

My bad.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 12, 2020, 04:12:15 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 12, 2020, 03:40:28 PM

Your response to my post included a couple of paragraphs about this becoming too political. I assumed - perhaps incorrectly- that you were using my post as an example of that.

My bad.

Yeah my point was that everyone was making it political....whether its overly political or not remains to be seen but we've moved from 90/10 legit concern to something closer to 40/60 or 50/50 political...it is what it is

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 12, 2020, 04:33:33 PM

Not just Fauci but all 4 witnesses to appear before the Senate today issued dire warnings about very likely severe consequences of re-opening too much too quickly. That came just a day after President Pandemic spiked the football about 80 yards shy of the goal line: “We have met the moment, and we have prevailed."

Nearly 2,000 more Americans died since the "prevailed" declaration. Many (most?) states that have re-opened haven't reached the benchmarks that Trump himself had required. And, as Mitt Romney noted, at least 25 nations are doing more testing per capita than we are: “I find our testing record nothing to celebrate whatsoever.”

Meanwhile, Lara Trump insisted that the unnecessary Narcissism Fest that will be this summer's RNC will go on as scheduled. But she and her sugar-daddy-in-law don't control that -- and Charlotte and NC officials say they aren't at all sure it will take place.

Another fun day!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 12, 2020, 06:14:25 PM

I had an interesting talk today with the CEO of a health care company that I work with who happens to also be an epidemiologist with expertise in public health. He was ringing the alarm bells early and loudly on this in January.  Interestingly, he is pretty sanguine about a potential 2nd wave.

His reasoning is that after this initial wave, people are going to be more diligent and "do the right" around social distancing, hygiene, etc. He comes at this view from a math, science, and reasoning perspective. I wish I could say I agree with him, but I think he is overlooking human behavior. You have people that are suffering economic hardship who are going to say "F it" and take their chances, and then you have a whole swath of people of the Freedumb movement who have been egged on not to take precautions. I'm afraid that even if the latter are a minority, it is more than enough to spread a 2nd wave.

I hope the Dr. is right and I am wrong.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on May 12, 2020, 06:25:35 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on May 12, 2020, 06:14:25 PM

I had an interesting talk today with the CEO of a health care company that I work with who happens to also be an epidemiologist with expertise in public health. He was ringing the alarm bells early and loudly on this in January.  Interestingly, he is pretty sanguine about a potential 2nd wave.

His reasoning is that after this initial wave, people are going to be more diligent and "do the right" around social distancing, hygiene, etc. He comes at this view from a math, science, and reasoning perspective. I wish I could say I agree with him, but I think he is overlooking human behavior. You have people that are suffering economic hardship who are going to say "F it" and take their chances, and then you have a whole swath of people of the Freedumb movement who have been egged on not to take precautions. I'm afraid that even if the latter are a minority, it is more than enough to spread a 2nd wave.

I hope the Dr. is right and I am wrong.

is that with states fully open including schools and large events?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 12, 2020, 07:09:22 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on May 12, 2020, 06:14:25 PM

I had an interesting talk today with the CEO of a health care company that I work with who happens to also be an epidemiologist with expertise in public health. He was ringing the alarm bells early and loudly on this in January.  Interestingly, he is pretty sanguine about a potential 2nd wave.

His reasoning is that after this initial wave, people are going to be more diligent and "do the right" around social distancing, hygiene, etc. He comes at this view from a math, science, and reasoning perspective. I wish I could say I agree with him, but I think he is overlooking human behavior. You have people that are suffering economic hardship who are going to say "F it" and take their chances, and then you have a whole swath of people of the Freedumb movement who have been egged on not to take precautions. I'm afraid that even if the latter are a minority, it is more than enough to spread a 2nd wave.

I hope the Dr. is right and I am wrong.

Where I think he has erred is in assuming people actually believe that message on doing the right thing. If this does go away to a large extent over the summer. People are going to have the memory of everyone over-reacting. The result will be when/if it re-emerges, people will be reluctant to take as severe of measures.

That means no shut downs, and less buy-in by the population. Which could make it more severe.

There is also the chance, not highly likely, that like the Spanish Flu, we have a mutated and more egressive strain emerge in fall.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 12, 2020, 07:25:50 PM

Quote from: forgetful on May 12, 2020, 07:09:22 PM

Where I think he has erred is in assuming people actually believe that message on doing the right thing. If this does go away to a large extent over the summer. People are going to have the memory of everyone over-reacting. The result will be when/if it re-emerges, people will be reluctant to take as severe of measures.

That means no shut downs, and less buy-in by the population. Which could make it more severe.

There is also the chance, not highly likely, that like the Spanish Flu, we have a mutated and more egressive strain emerge in fall.

So get off of scoop and start researching this chit, aina.   ;D

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on May 12, 2020, 07:27:55 PM

Quote from: tower912 on May 12, 2020, 09:18:17 AM

What will be more entertaining and educational?   Fauci in front of the Senate?  Or Supreme Court arguments over the subpoena of Trump's tax records?

Hopefully folks learned that its better to know the judge than to know the law. Of course that's something that should become clear the first time you step into a courtroom, up to a point- some of these hacks are pushing their politics and disdain for stare decisis beyond a reasonable position.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 12, 2020, 07:32:38 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on May 12, 2020, 06:14:25 PM

I had an interesting talk today with the CEO of a health care company that I work with who happens to also be an epidemiologist with expertise in public health. He was ringing the alarm bells early and loudly on this in January.  Interestingly, he is pretty sanguine about a potential 2nd wave.

His reasoning is that after this initial wave, people are going to be more diligent and "do the right" around social distancing, hygiene, etc. He comes at this view from a math, science, and reasoning perspective. I wish I could say I agree with him, but I think he is overlooking human behavior. You have people that are suffering economic hardship who are going to say "F it" and take their chances, and then you have a whole swath of people of the Freedumb movement who have been egged on not to take precautions. I'm afraid that even if the latter are a minority, it is more than enough to spread a 2nd wave.

I hope the Dr. is right and I am wrong.

As others have said, he seems to be way more optimistic than most epidemiologists, but it would be great if he is right.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: buckchuckler on May 12, 2020, 07:34:03 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 12, 2020, 12:28:03 PM

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/843166c9d3dc66da2ad9ecf63a4e80cb/tenor.gif?itemid=12221156)

So, you didn't get it.  Here it is, he posted a picture of David Lee Roth, a bit of a joke on a name.  David Lee Roth (DLR) was the original singer in the Rock and Roll band, Van Halen.  Now DLR was a bit of a star in the 70's and 80s, all swagger and leather pants and such, and is commonly regarded as the best singer in the bands history.  He left the band after 1984 the album, not the year, well both actually. 

Sammy (the Red Rocker, and Mas Tequila mogul) joined the band to replace him. And while Van Halen remained popular, successful and Eddie continued to hammer away on fret boards all over the world, many lamented the loss of DLR and his screeching vocals and fringe jackets. 

And while most of the band's best albums and songs are from the DLR era, I'm taking Sammy's side.  Not because he is better, or the band was better with him.  Mostly because I am averse to people in fringe jackets. 

Here, Egon and George of the Jungle can catch you up.

https://youtu.be/BJzSVD1YkHc

You may now get back to your live cut of total eclipse of the heart.  Sorry for the interruption.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 12, 2020, 07:38:06 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on May 12, 2020, 06:14:25 PM

I had an interesting talk today with the CEO of a health care company that I work with who happens to also be an epidemiologist with expertise in public health. He was ringing the alarm bells early and loudly on this in January.  Interestingly, he is pretty sanguine about a potential 2nd wave.

His reasoning is that after this initial wave, people are going to be more diligent and "do the right" around social distancing, hygiene, etc. He comes at this view from a math, science, and reasoning perspective. I wish I could say I agree with him, but I think he is overlooking human behavior. You have people that are suffering economic hardship who are going to say "F it" and take their chances, and then you have a whole swath of people of the Freedumb movement who have been egged on not to take precautions. I'm afraid that even if the latter are a minority, it is more than enough to spread a 2nd wave.

I hope the Dr. is right and I am wrong.

Come to a Kroger in Indianapolis and quickly see how few people are following the suggested policies

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on May 12, 2020, 07:54:54 PM

Quote from: buckchuckler on May 12, 2020, 07:34:03 PM

So, you didn't get it.  Here it is, he posted a picture of David Lee Roth, a bit of a joke on a name.  David Lee Roth (DLR) was the original singer in the Rock and Roll band, Van Halen.  Now DLR was a bit of a star in the 70's and 80s, all swagger and leather pants and such, and is commonly regarded as the best singer in the bands history.  He left the band after 1984 the album, not the year, well both actually. 

Sammy (the Red Rocker, and Mas Tequila mogul) joined the band to replace him. And while Van Halen remained popular, successful and Eddie continued to hammer away on fret boards all over the world, many lamented the loss of DLR and his screeching vocals and fringe jackets. 

And while most of the band's best albums and songs are from the DLR era, I'm taking Sammy's side.  Not because he is better, or the band was better with him.  Mostly because I am averse to people in fringe jackets. 

Here, Egon and George of the Jungle can catch you up.

https://youtu.be/BJzSVD1YkHc

You may now get back to your live cut of total eclipse of the heart.  Sorry for the interruption.

Thanks for the education. I've always been a Stones guy myself.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 12, 2020, 07:58:51 PM

Quote from: buckchuckler on May 12, 2020, 07:34:03 PM

So, you didn't get it.  Here it is, he posted a picture of David Lee Roth, a bit of a joke on a name.  David Lee Roth (DLR) was the original singer in the Rock and Roll band, Van Halen.  Now DLR was a bit of a star in the 70's and 80s, all swagger and leather pants and such, and is commonly regarded as the best singer in the bands history.  He left the band after 1984 the album, not the year, well both actually. 

Sammy (the Red Rocker, and Mas Tequila mogul) joined the band to replace him. And while Van Halen remained popular, successful and Eddie continued to hammer away on fret boards all over the world, many lamented the loss of DLR and his screeching vocals and fringe jackets. 

And while most of the band's best albums and songs are from the DLR era, I'm taking Sammy's side.  Not because he is better, or the band was better with him.  Mostly because I am averse to people in fringe jackets. 

Here, Egon and George of the Jungle can catch you up.

https://youtu.be/BJzSVD1YkHc

You may now get back to your live cut of total eclipse of the heart.  Sorry for the interruption.

I fully understand the history of VH. I just don’t like the Hagar version. That’s all I meant.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on May 12, 2020, 08:09:33 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 11, 2020, 09:48:14 PM

My opinion of what Comey, McCabe, Strok, et al did under the guise of “law enforcement” is very, very low. So is my opinion of a media that insists on carrying their water. The dishonest hit job that Chuck Todd pulled Sunday on “Meet the Press” re Attorney General Barr should disgust every American. Trump should shut his mouth, though, and let Durham finish his investigation. The docs we’ve seen are troubling and evidently there is a lot more to come.

The irony here is that if Comey et al had acted like professionals in doing their job instead of like incompetent boy scouts who were terrified of the NY FBI office, Trump never would have been elected in the first place.

(https://cdn.theatlantic.com/thumbor/WM4UnyaDQv3ZmzIw-zSMPQSI4-o=/filters:format(png)/media/img/posts/2017/09/9f5c9bdcf/original.png)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 12, 2020, 08:17:06 PM

Some good news on the post-infection testing front:

Rochester scientists develop first-of-its-kind antibody test to detect protective immunity

https://www.medcitybeat.com/news-blog/2020/vyriad-regeneron-antibody-test

Scientists at Vyriad have developed a new serology test capable of detecting neutralizing antibodies to determine a person’s immune defense against SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes the disease Covid-19.

The Rochester-based biotech firm is now collaborating with the pharmaceutical company Regeneron to make the test commercially available through major laboratories by the end of May.

——————

I worked with Steve Russell before he left Mayo to start Vyriad. Really bright guy. Hope his test works.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 12, 2020, 08:32:42 PM

Quote from: Mutaman on May 12, 2020, 08:09:33 PM

The irony here is that if Comey et al had acted like professionals in doing their job instead of like incompetent boy scouts who were terrified of the NY FBI office, Trump never would have been elected in the first place.

(https://cdn.theatlantic.com/thumbor/WM4UnyaDQv3ZmzIw-zSMPQSI4-o=/filters:format(png)/media/img/posts/2017/09/9f5c9bdcf/original.png)

Yep.

He was a self important moron in the Clinton investigation. He didn’t change his stripes (though likely added corrupt to his resume’) in the Carter Page, George P, Flynn and Trump probe. Quite a guy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 12, 2020, 08:57:35 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on May 12, 2020, 06:25:35 PM

is that with states fully open including schools and large events?

I am assuming he was taking all that into account but we didn't specifically get into those details.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 12, 2020, 09:00:03 PM

Quote from: forgetful on May 12, 2020, 07:09:22 PM

Where I think he has erred is in assuming people actually believe that message on doing the right thing. If this does go away to a large extent over the summer. People are going to have the memory of everyone over-reacting. The result will be when/if it re-emerges, people will be reluctant to take as severe of measures.

Yeah, that's part of what I mean by I don't think he is taking human behavior into account. But he does have a background in public health so one would think he's factored that in.  I guess we shall see soon enough.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on May 12, 2020, 09:17:01 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on May 12, 2020, 09:00:03 PM

Yeah, that's part of what I mean by I don't think he is taking human behavior into account. But he does have a background in public health so one would think he's factored that in.  I guess we shall see soon enough.

unfortunately it starts at the top.  If trump and the entire crew standing in front for each presser early on had a mask on and stood 6 feet apart more of the nation would have followed and it would be acceptable to wear a mask. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 12, 2020, 09:51:24 PM

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/health/2020/05/11/Pennsylvania-plan-nursing-homes-long-term-care-coronavirus-COVID-19-cases-deaths-response/stories/202005090064

68% of Covid deaths in Pennsylvania are in nursing homes - epic fail to protect the most vulnerable as robust, comprehensive plan was never implemented.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 12, 2020, 09:59:28 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 12, 2020, 09:51:24 PM

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/health/2020/05/11/Pennsylvania-plan-nursing-homes-long-term-care-coronavirus-COVID-19-cases-deaths-response/stories/202005090064

68% of Covid deaths in Pennsylvania are in nursing homes - epic fail to protect the most vulnerable as robust, comprehensive plan was never implemented.

Just awful. Actually having a plan that could work, and then failing to implement it.

Why consult with experts if they are going to ignore their recommendations?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 12, 2020, 10:45:03 PM

Any thoughts on how/why Flordia seems to be doing much better than most states despite all the really bad press about them closing down late?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 12, 2020, 11:00:15 PM

Coronavirus: Robot dog enforces social distancing in Singapore park

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/technology-52619568/coronavirus-robot-dog-enforces-social-distancing-in-singapore-park

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 12, 2020, 11:18:11 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 12, 2020, 10:45:03 PM

Any thoughts on how/why Flordia seems to be doing much better than most states despite all the really bad press about them closing down late?

Three thoughts:

1. Florida ranks 8th in number of coronavirus deaths.

2. Florida ranks tied for 25th (with Missouri, Iowa and Arkansas) in coronavirus deaths per capita.

3. For me, it's too early to conclude anything. Maybe they'll do even better in the coming months, or maybe they'll get devastated as bad as anybody. I'll wait to see what the science says X number of months from now. Here's hoping things stay OK there.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 13, 2020, 07:40:12 AM

Quote from: MU82 on May 12, 2020, 11:18:11 PM

Three thoughts:

1. Florida ranks 8th in number of coronavirus deaths.

2. Florida ranks tied for 25th (with Missouri, Iowa and Arkansas) in coronavirus deaths per capita.

3. For me, it's too early to conclude anything. Maybe they'll do even better in the coming months, or maybe they'll get devastated as bad as anybody. I'll wait to see what the science says X number of months from now. Here's hoping things stay OK there.

Are they now releasing all of their data?

That being said, I have a feeling we are going to find that having crowded beaches and the like isn't going to be much of a problem as long as people aren't sitting on top of one another.  (Outdoor fookin' ai'na?) 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 13, 2020, 07:53:02 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 12, 2020, 10:45:03 PM

Any thoughts on how/why Flordia seems to be doing much better than most states despite all the really bad press about them closing down late?

I am interested in this as well.  I heard an interesting interview with Scott Gottlieb yesterday where he reiterates that summer should provide some shelter to us.

May point that being outside with people with some sense of space is less of a problem.  Even in some of the more tropical areas that have had outbreaks, it was traced back to living conditions....so further support maybe.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on May 13, 2020, 08:19:52 AM

I'll bet a beef n cheddar that 1000 people in a room the size of a football field will get infected at a 10x rate than 1000 people on an outdoor football field.

Add in 5mph breeze and a sunny day, and I'll go 20x.

I was never massively bothered by the "Florida Beach" scenes.  It was outdoors and I've been on a beach before.   Unless it's hella crowded, people's encampments are spread out.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 13, 2020, 08:26:06 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on May 13, 2020, 08:19:52 AM

I'll bet a beef n cheddar that 1000 people in a room the size of a football field will get infected at a 10x rate than 1000 people on an outdoor football field.

Add in 5mph breeze and a sunny day, and I'll go 20x.

I was never massively bothered by the "Florida Beach" scenes.  It was outdoors and I've been on a beach before.   Unless it's hella crowded, people's encampments are spread out.

Even better, let's get a platter of beef n cheddar's and feast outside to test the hypothesis.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 13, 2020, 08:53:29 AM

Quote from: MU82 on May 12, 2020, 11:18:11 PM

Three thoughts:

1. Florida ranks 8th in number of coronavirus deaths.

2. Florida ranks tied for 25th (with Missouri, Iowa and Arkansas) in coronavirus deaths per capita.

3. For me, it's too early to conclude anything. Maybe they'll do even better in the coming months, or maybe they'll get devastated as bad as anybody. I'll wait to see what the science says X number of months from now. Here's hoping things stay OK there.

1. 8th in Covid19 deaths, 3rd in US population. 6.5% of US population, 2.1% of US deaths.

2. Florida has the (along with Maine) the highest % of senior citizens in the US - 20.5% and the second highest total number behind California. Nursing homes/senior living facilities are everywhere. Given these factors and who Covid kills, one would expect Florida to be an unmitigated disaster. Instead, it’s been a relative success.

3. It may be “to early” to draw conclusions about Florida’s success, but It’s not too early to draw conclusions about New York’s, New Jersey’s, Connecticut’s, Massachusetts’, Pennsylvania’s, Michigan’s and Illinois’ failures. I’m content and grateful to be in Florida and reasonably confident that despite our aging population we’ll be better off than most.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on May 13, 2020, 08:54:30 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on May 13, 2020, 08:19:52 AM

I'll bet a beef n cheddar that 1000 people in a room the size of a football field will get infected at a 10x rate than 1000 people on an outdoor football field.

Add in 5mph breeze and a sunny day, and I'll go 20x.

I was never massively bothered by the "Florida Beach" scenes.  It was outdoors and I've been on a beach before.   Unless it's hella crowded, people's encampments are spread out.

I believe I've read several times that there is only one confirmed case of spread out doors.  Personally, based on what I've read from a variety of sources, I believe outdoor activities are extremely low risk of infection.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 13, 2020, 09:02:25 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 13, 2020, 08:53:29 AM

1. 8th in Covid19 deaths, 3rd in US population. 6.5% of US population, 2.1% of US deaths.

2. Florida has the (along with Maine) the highest % of senior citizens in the US - 20.5% and the second highest total number behind California. Nursing homes/senior living facilities are everywhere. Given these factors and who Covid kills, one would expect Florida to be an unmitigated disaster. Instead, it’s been a relative success.

3. It may be “to early” to draw conclusions about Florida’s success, but It’s not too early to draw conclusions about New York’s, New Jersey’s, Connecticut’s, Massachusetts’, Pennsylvania’s, Michigan’s and Illinois’ failures. I’m content and grateful to be in Florida and reasonably confident that despite our aging population we’ll be better off than most.

Thanks for expounding on that data, Lenny, and I hope you and yours stay healthy and happy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 13, 2020, 09:08:25 AM

As for why FL doesn't currently have higher numbers despite being late to the party, it's hard to say. Maybe they did a better job of isolating their senior facilities.

I am more worried about their early lifting of the stay-at-home order. FL lifted its stay-at-home order on May 4 (9 days ago). The incubation period of COVID-19 is believed to be 14 days, so any impact won't be seen for at least a few more days.

We should wait another week or so before we even begin to draw any conclusions....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 13, 2020, 09:12:21 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 12, 2020, 10:45:03 PM

Any thoughts on how/why Flordia seems to be doing much better than most states despite all the really bad press about them closing down late?

Unless their policies have changed (honestly don't know), Florida is tallying their deaths differently than most, in a way that lowers their toll.
They're only counting lab-confirmed cases as COVID-19, and they're not counting people who die in Florida but don't claim state residency. So, if a snowbird from Wisconsin got sick and died from COVID in Clearwater, that person wasn't included in the state's death count.

https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/2020/04/11/floridas-count-of-coronavirus-deaths-is-missing-some-cases/

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-coronavirus-florida-pneumonia-flu-deaths-spike-20200417-lkel6rlik5blhd5zdktkrxhzze-story.html

https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/2020/04/23/counting-florida-coronavirus-dead-includes-post-mortem-covid-19-testing/5147971002/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 13, 2020, 09:16:31 AM

Despite making up less than 1% of the population, nursing home residents account for 43% of COVID deaths.  CT got it right.  Cuomo finally reversed his order over the weekend, but way too late.  PA the same.

What a tragedy and display of incompetence.


If German intelligence report (Der Spiegel over weekend) is correct that China had WHO spike the person to person transmission info for 6 weeks the ramifications of retribution will be immense.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on May 13, 2020, 09:17:45 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on May 13, 2020, 08:19:52 AM

I'll bet a beef n cheddar that 1000 people in a room the size of a football field will get infected at a 10x rate than 1000 people on an outdoor football field.

Add in 5mph breeze and a sunny day, and I'll go 20x.

I was never massively bothered by the "Florida Beach" scenes.  It was outdoors and I've been on a beach before.   Unless it's hella crowded, people's encampments are spread out.

I've been very confused by all the responses to lock down wide open outdoor public areas like parks and beaches.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 13, 2020, 09:18:49 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 13, 2020, 09:12:21 AM

Unless their policies have changed (honestly don't know), Florida is tallying their deaths differently than most, in a way that lowers their toll.
They're only counting lab-confirmed cases as COVID-19, and they're not counting people who die in Florida but don't claim state residency. So, if a snowbird from Wisconsin got sick and died from COVID in Clearwater, that person wasn't included in the state's death count.

https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/2020/04/11/floridas-count-of-coronavirus-deaths-is-missing-some-cases/

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-coronavirus-florida-pneumonia-flu-deaths-spike-20200417-lkel6rlik5blhd5zdktkrxhzze-story.html

Here in Illinois we are counting any that dies with the virus even if the virus isn’t what killed them. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 13, 2020, 09:23:45 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 13, 2020, 09:18:49 AM

Here in Illinois we are counting any that dies with the virus even if the virus isn’t what killed them.

That's not quite true.
The head of IDPH discussed this yesterday.

“There are also some additional deaths that happen in someone who happened to be COVID positive, but where the COVID infection had nothing to do with the deaths,” she said. “So we are at IDPH trying to remove those obvious cases where the COVID diagnosis was not the reason for the death. If there was a gunshot wound, if there was a motor vehicle accident, we know that that was not related to the COVID positive status.
“We are trying to make sure that things that aren’t related at all to the COVID diagnosis are removed, but if someone has another illness, like heart disease, and then had a stroke or other event, it’s not as easy to separate that and say COVID didn’t exacerbate that existing illness. That would not be removed from the count,” she added.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/coronavirus/dr-ngozi-ezike-refutes-notion-that-illinois-is-over-counting-covid-19-deaths/2270810/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on May 13, 2020, 09:26:45 AM

Is it possible that those in Florida who caught it on Spring Break took it home with them, thus the numbers are spread out a bit more? I wonder if most of the impact isn’t showing up in Florida numbers. Also, with most spring breakers being young, maybe there weren’t a ton of hospitalizations.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 13, 2020, 09:28:21 AM

Florida was refusing to release data for a while.   So, either sunshine or different data.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 13, 2020, 09:30:13 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 13, 2020, 09:18:49 AM

Here in Illinois we are counting any that dies with the virus even if the virus isn’t what killed them.

When did you make the move from SoCal to the Midwest?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 13, 2020, 09:38:32 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 13, 2020, 09:12:21 AM

Unless their policies have changed (honestly don't know), Florida is tallying their deaths differently than most, in a way that lowers their toll.
They're only counting lab-confirmed cases as COVID-19, and they're not counting people who die in Florida but don't claim state residency. So, if a snowbird from Wisconsin got sick and died from COVID in Clearwater, that person wasn't included in the state's death count.

https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/2020/04/11/floridas-count-of-coronavirus-deaths-is-missing-some-cases/

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-coronavirus-florida-pneumonia-flu-deaths-spike-20200417-lkel6rlik5blhd5zdktkrxhzze-story.html

https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/2020/04/23/counting-florida-coronavirus-dead-includes-post-mortem-covid-19-testing/5147971002/

I haven't been following FL closely, but those factors explain quite a lot. The slow ramp-up of testing (not unique to FL, but certainly applies there), combined with a snowbird population estimated to be near 1M mostly elderly people could result in significant underreporting.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 13, 2020, 09:39:07 AM

This is scary, as heart complications related to COVID-19 is increasingly affecting children.

https://apnews.com/8eb36906c77bc89a417ca54637f9b01a

Amber Dean had recovered from a mild bout of the coronavirus and her family of five had just ended their home quarantine when her oldest son, 9-year-old Bobby, fell ill.

“At first it was nothing major, it seemed like a tummy bug, like he ate something that didn’t agree with him,” said Dean, who lives with her husband and three young children in the western New York town of Hornell. “But by the next day, he couldn’t keep anything down and his belly hurt so bad he couldn’t sit up.”

At the local hospital emergency room, doctors suspected an appendix infection and sent him home with instructions to see his pediatrician.

It was only later, after Bobby’s condition took an alarming turn for the worse, that doctors realized he was among the small but growing number of children with a mysterious inflammatory syndrome thought to be related to the virus.

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Tuesday that New York is now investigating about 100 cases of the syndrome, which affects blood vessels and organs and has symptoms similar to Kawasaki disease and toxic shock. Three children in the state have died and Cuomo advised all hospitals to prioritize COVID-19 testing for children presenting with symptoms.

In New York City, which has reported at least 52 children sick with the syndrome, Mayor Bill de Blasio on Tuesday urged parents to call their pediatricians promptly if their children show symptoms including persistent fever, rash, abdominal pain and vomiting.

That’s what Bobby Dean’s family did, even though they live in Steuben County, which has only 239 confirmed cases of COVID-19 and is in a part of the state set to start reopening some workplaces on Friday.

The family doctor performed a coronavirus test the day after his trip to the emergency room, but the results would take 24 hours. By that night, the boy’s fever had spiked, his abdomen was swollen, he was severely dehydrated and his heart was racing. His father, Michael Dean, drove him to Golisano Children’s Hospital in Rochester, 90 minutes away.

“At Rochester they did a rapid COVID test and it came back positive,” Amber Dean said. For the next six days, she was at his hospital bedside while Bobby was hooked up to IV lines and a heart monitor. He came home on Mother’s Day.

“It never affected his respiratory system, it was his heart that it affected,” Dean said. Inflamed lymph nodes caused the abdominal pain, she said. “They’re hoping he pulls through with 100% recovery but they said there have been children with lasting effects.”

Children elsewhere in the U.S. and in Europe have also been hospitalized with the condition known as pediatric multi-system inflammatory syndrome.

In New York, the syndrome has been found across a wide range of young people. A 5-year-old boy, 7-year-old boy and an 18-year-old woman have died.

About 23 percent of cases have occurred in children under age 5, about 29% between the ages of 5 and 9, about 28% between ages 10 and 14 and 16% between the ages 15 and 19.

“This is a truly disturbing situation and I know parents around the state and parents around the country are very concerned about this, and they should be,” Cuomo said. “If we have this issue in New York it’s probably in other states.”

Dr. Juan Salazar, the physician-in-chief at Connecticut Children’s Medical Center, said two patients there are believed to have the rare condition, which he said often appears to present itself two to four weeks after a child has recovered from COVID-19, often without ever being diagnosed with the infection. Yale Health has said it’s treating three children believed to have the syndrome.

Cuomo announced last week that New York is developing national criteria for identifying and responding to the syndrome at the request of the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

In testimony Tuesday before a Senate committee on the administration’s coronavirus response, Dr. Anthony Fauci said children in general do better than adults and the elderly, but he warned there is still much to learn about the virus.

“For example right now, children presenting with COVID-19 who actually have a very strange inflammatory syndrome very similar to Kawasaki syndrome,” Fauci said. “I think we better be very careful that we are not cavalier in thinking that children are completely immune to the deleterious effects.”

As Bobby Dean’s boisterous energy and sardonic sense of humor returns, his mom is vigilant for signs of illness in her younger children, aged 7 months and 3 years.

“It’s a pretty scary thing, watching your child be hooked up to all these wires and IVs and there’s nothing you can do,” Dean said. “In my opinion, right now, I would not let your child out in public.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on May 13, 2020, 09:49:10 AM

Quote from: MU82 on May 13, 2020, 09:39:07 AM

This is scary, as heart complications related to COVID-19 is increasingly affecting children.

https://apnews.com/8eb36906c77bc89a417ca54637f9b01a

Amber Dean had recovered from a mild bout of the coronavirus and her family of five had just ended their home quarantine when her oldest son, 9-year-old Bobby, fell ill.

“At first it was nothing major, it seemed like a tummy bug, like he ate something that didn’t agree with him,” said Dean, who lives with her husband and three young children in the western New York town of Hornell. “But by the next day, he couldn’t keep anything down and his belly hurt so bad he couldn’t sit up.”

At the local hospital emergency room, doctors suspected an appendix infection and sent him home with instructions to see his pediatrician.

It was only later, after Bobby’s condition took an alarming turn for the worse, that doctors realized he was among the small but growing number of children with a mysterious inflammatory syndrome thought to be related to the virus.

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Tuesday that New York is now investigating about 100 cases of the syndrome, which affects blood vessels and organs and has symptoms similar to Kawasaki disease and toxic shock. Three children in the state have died and Cuomo advised all hospitals to prioritize COVID-19 testing for children presenting with symptoms.

In New York City, which has reported at least 52 children sick with the syndrome, Mayor Bill de Blasio on Tuesday urged parents to call their pediatricians promptly if their children show symptoms including persistent fever, rash, abdominal pain and vomiting.

That’s what Bobby Dean’s family did, even though they live in Steuben County, which has only 239 confirmed cases of COVID-19 and is in a part of the state set to start reopening some workplaces on Friday.

The family doctor performed a coronavirus test the day after his trip to the emergency room, but the results would take 24 hours. By that night, the boy’s fever had spiked, his abdomen was swollen, he was severely dehydrated and his heart was racing. His father, Michael Dean, drove him to Golisano Children’s Hospital in Rochester, 90 minutes away.

“At Rochester they did a rapid COVID test and it came back positive,” Amber Dean said. For the next six days, she was at his hospital bedside while Bobby was hooked up to IV lines and a heart monitor. He came home on Mother’s Day.

“It never affected his respiratory system, it was his heart that it affected,” Dean said. Inflamed lymph nodes caused the abdominal pain, she said. “They’re hoping he pulls through with 100% recovery but they said there have been children with lasting effects.”

Children elsewhere in the U.S. and in Europe have also been hospitalized with the condition known as pediatric multi-system inflammatory syndrome.

In New York, the syndrome has been found across a wide range of young people. A 5-year-old boy, 7-year-old boy and an 18-year-old woman have died.

About 23 percent of cases have occurred in children under age 5, about 29% between the ages of 5 and 9, about 28% between ages 10 and 14 and 16% between the ages 15 and 19.

“This is a truly disturbing situation and I know parents around the state and parents around the country are very concerned about this, and they should be,” Cuomo said. “If we have this issue in New York it’s probably in other states.”

Dr. Juan Salazar, the physician-in-chief at Connecticut Children’s Medical Center, said two patients there are believed to have the rare condition, which he said often appears to present itself two to four weeks after a child has recovered from COVID-19, often without ever being diagnosed with the infection. Yale Health has said it’s treating three children believed to have the syndrome.

Cuomo announced last week that New York is developing national criteria for identifying and responding to the syndrome at the request of the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

In testimony Tuesday before a Senate committee on the administration’s coronavirus response, Dr. Anthony Fauci said children in general do better than adults and the elderly, but he warned there is still much to learn about the virus.

“For example right now, children presenting with COVID-19 who actually have a very strange inflammatory syndrome very similar to Kawasaki syndrome,” Fauci said. “I think we better be very careful that we are not cavalier in thinking that children are completely immune to the deleterious effects.”

As Bobby Dean’s boisterous energy and sardonic sense of humor returns, his mom is vigilant for signs of illness in her younger children, aged 7 months and 3 years.

“It’s a pretty scary thing, watching your child be hooked up to all these wires and IVs and there’s nothing you can do,” Dean said. “In my opinion, right now, I would not let your child out in public.”

This is what brings panic to the country.  How many had underlying health conditions?  I heard on the news last night 83% did.  Everyone wants to get the credit for being the first to break the big stories why not let science do the research and come back with real data instead of  thinking it might be related to covid 19.
If we keep 6ft and wear a mask this will happen a lot less and those qualified can make statements after the necessary research.
But it is much easier to create panic

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 13, 2020, 09:56:45 AM

Quote from: injuryBug on May 13, 2020, 09:49:10 AM

This is what brings panic to the country.  How many had underlying health conditions?  I heard on the news last night 83% did.  Everyone wants to get the credit for being the first to break the big stories why not let science do the research and come back with real data instead of  thinking it might be related to covid 19.
If we keep 6ft and wear a mask this will happen a lot less and those qualified can make statements after the necessary research.
But it is much easier to create panic

There is definitely a sensationalism to reporting that should absolutely stop.  However, it is very important that these messages/cases are reported.  This has been popping up in countries around the world and changes an operating assumption on the disease - that it doesnt affect children.

From what I have read to date this Kawasaki thing is very treatable.  So if parents are looking out for it and notice symptoms, they should bring their kids in.

Should we suppress that?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lighthouse 84 on May 13, 2020, 10:09:28 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 13, 2020, 09:23:45 AM

That's not quite true.
The head of IDPH discussed this yesterday.

“There are also some additional deaths that happen in someone who happened to be COVID positive, but where the COVID infection had nothing to do with the deaths,” she said. “So we are at IDPH trying to remove those obvious cases where the COVID diagnosis was not the reason for the death. If there was a gunshot wound, if there was a motor vehicle accident, we know that that was not related to the COVID positive status.
“We are trying to make sure that things that aren’t related at all to the COVID diagnosis are removed, but if someone has another illness, like heart disease, and then had a stroke or other event, it’s not as easy to separate that and say COVID didn’t exacerbate that existing illness. That would not be removed from the count,” she added.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/coronavirus/dr-ngozi-ezike-refutes-notion-that-illinois-is-over-counting-covid-19-deaths/2270810/

It's good to see that she has amended her previous comments to exclude those deaths from being counted.  But if a person is in hospice care, with days to live, and then contracts COVID-19, it's counting as a COVID death.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 13, 2020, 10:16:50 AM

I don't believe that the reporting in the article I posted on kids getting sick was trying to "panic" anybody or was at all sensational.

It centered around one family's real story -- that's the "hook" to bring in the readers -- and then was filled with facts, data and comments from experts. One of the facts was that it was "rare," but that it was something parents should be aware of if they see specific symptoms.

Frankly, I thought it was valuable information and very good reporting.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 13, 2020, 10:18:22 AM

Quote from: Mane'shouse 84 on May 13, 2020, 10:09:28 AM

It's good to see that she has amended her previous comments to exclude those deaths from being counted.  But if a person is in hospice care, with days to live, and then contracts COVID-19, it's counting as a COVID death.

Sure, but where do you draw the line on those deaths? What if a person had not days, but weeks to live? What if a person is in treatment for pancreatic cancer? What if a person has severe COPD? What if a person is 102 years old?
Anywhere you draw the line is going to be arbitrary. It's much easier to just count them all than to spend God knows how much time debating how long a person had to live and trying to make a wholly subjective determination.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 13, 2020, 10:35:27 AM

Quote from: Mane'shouse 84 on May 13, 2020, 10:09:28 AM

It's good to see that she has amended her previous comments to exclude those deaths from being counted.  But if a person is in hospice care, with days to live, and then contracts COVID-19, it's counting as a COVID death.

In normal years, if that person got a respiratory disease with days to live, and died, it would be called a flu death (regardless of whether it was even the flu). This is done, because it used to be largely impossible to test everyone who died of a respiratory disease, and it was important for tracking for them to be included.

So my question is, why do people want us to treat this so different than how we usually treat the Flu? Especially when being more stringent will make it harder to track and trace the spread of COVID, and make it harder to prevent more illness?

I provided this link previously. It outlines what flu deaths would look like if we treated flu deaths like COVID deaths. The results paint a different picture than the "we are over counting COVID" death crowd argues.

https://news.yahoo.com/flu-deaths-were-counted-covid-053449918.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: buckchuckler on May 13, 2020, 10:37:32 AM

So then, after about a dozen or so years, after the album Balance, Sammy decided to leave Van Halen.  He left despite it being Van Halen's 4th straight number 1 album and featured the classic Sammy written hit Can't Stop Lovin' You Though he did remain active on his solo career, with hits like Marching to Mars and Mas Tequila.  He also went on to found his own Tequlia empire, Cabo Wabo.

After Sammy left, there were some rumors that DLR would return to the band, but it wasn't to be.  He was replaced with former Extreme singer, you know Extreme right?  No, well here is their one song:
https://youtu.be/UrIiLvg58SY

Yeah, its pretty cheesy and super 80s-y.  And there was some question as to why he was the guy the Van Halen boys went with.  But they did.  The Cherone era was short, one unremarkable album.  Though I have to say, I have a bit of a soft spot for him since he was the singer the first (and only) time I was there to see a Van Halen concert.  He did his best, even ripping through some DLR era deep tracks like Someone get me a Doctor, as well as the hits like Aint talkin bout Love, Unchained, Mean Streets.  They played some classic Hagar era stuff too, and Cherone certainly was sufficient and didn't get in the way at all.  But all in all, he was unremarkable, and the band was winding down their window.   Could a different singer have extended the band's life?  Maybe.  We'll never know.

Van Halen was one of the few bands that remained successful after losing a lead singer.  That is certainly a testament to the musical chops of Eddie and Alex Van Halen. No list of the greatest Rock guitar players and drummers would be complete without the Van Halen brothers (alright, maybe a bit of a stretch on Alex, it isn't like he is Bonham or Moon, but Hot for Teacher is some pretty impressive work).

Also, Rock would never have been the same without Bassist Michael Anthony having that Jack Daniels bass.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/86/f9/cb/86f9cbd2617f102a4c6ecbc4db45ba26.jpg)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on May 13, 2020, 10:38:34 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 13, 2020, 09:56:45 AM

There is definitely a sensationalism to reporting that should absolutely stop.  However, it is very important that these messages/cases are reported.  This has been popping up in countries around the world and changes an operating assumption on the disease - that it doesnt affect children.

From what I have read to date this Kawasaki thing is very treatable.  So if parents are looking out for it and notice symptoms, they should bring their kids in.

Should we suppress that?

I agree on the Kawasaki thing i just do not like the assumption that it might be tied to covid 19.  People are already in a panic about the virus no need to bring it out more.  Stress Kawasaki and how treatable it is but bot to leave it untreated.
The more things you tie to covid the crazier people get. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 13, 2020, 10:39:37 AM

Quote from: forgetful on May 13, 2020, 10:35:27 AM

In normal years, if that person got a respiratory disease with days to live, and died, it would be called a flu death (regardless of whether it was even the flu). This is done, because it used to be largely impossible to test everyone who died of a respiratory disease, and it was important for tracking for them to be included.

So my question is, why do people want us to treat this so different than how we usually treat the Flu? Especially when being more stringent will make it harder to track and trace the spread of COVID, and make it harder to prevent more illness?

I provided this link previously. It outlines what flu deaths would look like if we treated flu deaths like COVID deaths. The results paint a different picture than the "we are over counting COVID" death crowd argues.

https://news.yahoo.com/flu-deaths-were-counted-covid-053449918.html

Because the simple answer is that people are going to hang on whatever justification they can find for how they pull the lever in November.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on May 13, 2020, 10:42:20 AM

Quote from: MU82 on May 13, 2020, 10:16:50 AM

I don't believe that the reporting in the article I posted on kids getting sick was trying to "panic" anybody or was at all sensational.

It centered around one family's real story -- that's the "hook" to bring in the readers -- and then was filled with facts, data and comments from experts. One of the facts was that it was "rare," but that it was something parents should be aware of if they see specific symptoms.

Frankly, I thought it was valuable information and very good reporting.

I dont have an issue with the reporting or the story, as much as the headline. Also your use of "increasingly" which you very well may have seen elsewhere.  If you have 5 cases nationwide and then you have 10, thats "increasing" but "increasingly" in the COVID fear and panic environment, much less a pandemic, makes it seem like its spreading like wildfire.

Its worthy of spreading information on and making people aware, but you're talking a super small amount of affected children, who are already at a significantly lower rate of infection compared to other age groups.  Yet its being framed as "CHILDREN ARENT IMMUNE".  "THIS IS TERRIFYING"  Of course they are not bulletproof against COVID, but the greater risk to them is still incredibly low.

It just feels like another section of wave of fear and panic about COVID being spread as people try to look to the future. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 13, 2020, 10:53:20 AM

Quote from: injuryBug on May 13, 2020, 10:38:34 AM

I agree on the Kawasaki thing i just do not like the assumption that it might be tied to covid 19.  People are already in a panic about the virus no need to bring it out more.  Stress Kawasaki and how treatable it is but bot to leave it untreated.
The more things you tie to covid the crazier people get.

My niece has Kawasaki a few years ago, i think she was 2.  Was scary while she was sick, but recovered with no issues.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 13, 2020, 11:10:09 AM

Quote from: injuryBug on May 13, 2020, 10:38:34 AM

I agree on the Kawasaki thing i just do not like the assumption that it might be tied to covid 19.  People are already in a panic about the virus no need to bring it out more.  Stress Kawasaki and how treatable it is but bot to leave it untreated.
The more things you tie to covid the crazier people get.

Except ... it appears it is tied to COVID-19.

Quote from: JWags85 on May 13, 2020, 10:42:20 AM

I dont have an issue with the reporting or the story, as much as the headline. Also your use of "increasingly" which you very well may have seen elsewhere.  If you have 5 cases nationwide and then you have 10, thats "increasing" but "increasingly" in the COVID fear and panic environment, much less a pandemic, makes it seem like its spreading like wildfire.

Its worthy of spreading information on and making people aware, but you're talking a super small amount of affected children, who are already at a significantly lower rate of infection compared to other age groups.  Yet its being framed as "CHILDREN ARENT IMMUNE".  "THIS IS TERRIFYING"  Of course they are not bulletproof against COVID, but the greater risk to them is still incredibly low.

It just feels like another section of wave of fear and panic about COVID being spread as people try to look to the future. 

Fair points.

I think it is worthy to be reported about, but I understand what you're saying.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 13, 2020, 11:11:42 AM

Quote from: injuryBug on May 13, 2020, 10:38:34 AM

I agree on the Kawasaki thing i just do not like the assumption that it might be tied to covid 19.  People are already in a panic about the virus no need to bring it out more.  Stress Kawasaki and how treatable it is but bot to leave it untreated.
The more things you tie to covid the crazier people get.

The issue is that they are seeing this in numbers that are abnormally high.  So the hypothesis is that these could be covid related.  I cant find the link but I saw some where they used serology to connect. 

So if doctors are hypothesizing this, why should it not be discussed?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on May 13, 2020, 11:42:07 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on May 13, 2020, 10:42:20 AM

I dont have an issue with the reporting or the story, as much as the headline. Also your use of "increasingly" which you very well may have seen elsewhere.  If you have 5 cases nationwide and then you have 10, thats "increasing" but "increasingly" in the COVID fear and panic environment, much less a pandemic, makes it seem like its spreading like wildfire.

Its worthy of spreading information on and making people aware, but you're talking a super small amount of affected children, who are already at a significantly lower rate of infection compared to other age groups.  Yet its being framed as "CHILDREN ARENT IMMUNE".  "THIS IS TERRIFYING"  Of course they are not bulletproof against COVID, but the greater risk to them is still incredibly low.

It just feels like another section of wave of fear and panic about COVID being spread as people try to look to the future.

Exactly wags

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 13, 2020, 11:56:55 AM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on May 13, 2020, 09:17:45 AM

I've been very confused by all the responses to lock down wide open outdoor public areas like parks and beaches.

This...even during the Spanish Flu there was documented evidence that open air hospitals helped reduce the transmission to healthcare workers, etc.

I struggle with the whole "science driven" approach but then decreeing people lock themselves in their homes for weeks.

If I was in charge, the science driven approach is, wash hands, minimize trips to stores, wear a mask in public, and move as many businesses outdoor as possible. If you had an outdoor hair salon pop up or something, while it's a non-zero risk of transmission.....its really really low.

There are lots of ways to "open up" that don't me a return to business as usual.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 13, 2020, 12:20:40 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 13, 2020, 11:56:55 AM

This...even during the Spanish Flu there was documented evidence that open air hospitals helped reduce the transmission to healthcare workers, etc.

I struggle with the whole "science driven" approach but then decreeing people lock themselves in their homes for weeks.

If I was in charge, the science driven approach is, wash hands, minimize trips to stores, wear a mask in public, and move as many businesses outdoor as possible. If you had an outdoor hair salon pop up or something, while it's a non-zero risk of transmission.....its really really low.

There are lots of ways to "open up" that don't me a return to business as usual.

My state has had less restrictions in public places, but has tried to limit the numbers since at some point you cant be distant.  For example the beaches are open generally in CT, but the parking lots are limited.  Like always, when the available spaces are full, the park closes to new entrants.

Next week outdoor eating reopens at restaurants.

So I am guessing your comment is local?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on May 13, 2020, 12:33:46 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on May 13, 2020, 10:42:20 AM

I dont have an issue with the reporting or the story, as much as the headline. Also your use of "increasingly" which you very well may have seen elsewhere.  If you have 5 cases nationwide and then you have 10, thats "increasing" but "increasingly" in the COVID fear and panic environment, much less a pandemic, makes it seem like its spreading like wildfire.

Its worthy of spreading information on and making people aware, but you're talking a super small amount of affected children, who are already at a significantly lower rate of infection compared to other age groups.  Yet its being framed as "CHILDREN ARENT IMMUNE".  "THIS IS TERRIFYING"  Of course they are not bulletproof against COVID, but the greater risk to them is still incredibly low.

It just feels like another section of wave of fear and panic about COVID being spread as people try to look to the future.

Agreed.  The entire Covid situation is scary enough without news outlets ramping up the fear whenever they get an opportunity.

This morning on NBC's "Today" show, they introduced a story about "SKYROCKETING" food prices.  They even put that word up on the screen.  In the details of the story, they said that food prices had gone up.....wait for it.... 1.5%.  That's barely a firecracker, much less a skyrocket.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 13, 2020, 12:37:23 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 13, 2020, 11:56:55 AM

This...even during the Spanish Flu there was documented evidence that open air hospitals helped reduce the transmission to healthcare workers, etc.

I struggle with the whole "science driven" approach but then decreeing people lock themselves in their homes for weeks.

If I was in charge, the science driven approach is, wash hands, minimize trips to stores, wear a mask in public, and move as many businesses outdoor as possible. If you had an outdoor hair salon pop up or something, while it's a non-zero risk of transmission.....its really really low.

There are lots of ways to "open up" that don't me a return to business as usual.

At least where I'm at, the only outdoor spaces shut down have been places where people had continued to congregate in close proximity after social distancing restrictions had been put in place. Amenities not conducive for gatherings - like trails - have remained open.

As with many things in life, the a-holes ruin it for the rest of us.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 13, 2020, 12:39:07 PM

Quote from: forgetful on May 13, 2020, 10:35:27 AM

In normal years, if that person got a respiratory disease with days to live, and died, it would be called a flu death (regardless of whether it was even the flu). This is done, because it used to be largely impossible to test everyone who died of a respiratory disease, and it was important for tracking for them to be included.

So my question is, why do people want us to treat this so different than how we usually treat the Flu? Especially when being more stringent will make it harder to track and trace the spread of COVID, and make it harder to prevent more illness?

I provided this link previously. It outlines what flu deaths would look like if we treated flu deaths like COVID deaths. The results paint a different picture than the "we are over counting COVID" death crowd argues.

https://news.yahoo.com/flu-deaths-were-counted-covid-053449918.html

Yep. We should report COVID deaths the same way we report flu deaths in normal years, especially since this will help with tracking and learning more about COVID.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 13, 2020, 01:00:47 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 13, 2020, 12:20:40 PM

My state has had less restrictions in public places, but has tried to limit the numbers since at some point you cant be distant.  For example the beaches are open generally in CT, but the parking lots are limited.  Like always, when the available spaces are full, the park closes to new entrants.

Next week outdoor eating reopens at restaurants.

So I am guessing your comment is local?

Certainly regional, lots of outdoor places in California, New York, Chicago, and some in Wisconsin were closed for a time or continue to be closed. I think some of it is a reaction to the videos from spring break, etc. But either way it's not science based to me

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on May 13, 2020, 03:28:01 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on May 13, 2020, 12:33:46 PM

Agreed.  The entire Covid situation is scary enough without news outlets ramping up the fear whenever they get an opportunity.

This morning on NBC's "Today" show, they introduced a story about "SKYROCKETING" food prices.  They even put that word up on the screen.  In the details of the story, they said that food prices had gone up.....wait for it.... 1.5%.  That's barely a firecracker, much less a skyrocket.

The Today Show was referring to this:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/05/12/april-saw-sharpest-increase-grocery-store-prices-nearly-50-years/%3foutputType=amp

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on May 13, 2020, 03:35:45 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on May 13, 2020, 12:33:46 PM

Agreed.  The entire Covid situation is scary enough without news outlets ramping up the fear whenever they get an opportunity.

This morning on NBC's "Today" show, they introduced a story about "SKYROCKETING" food prices.  They even put that word up on the screen.  In the details of the story, they said that food prices had gone up.....wait for it.... 1.5%.  That's barely a firecracker, much less a skyrocket.

Have you been to a grocery store lately?  Food prices are way way up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on May 13, 2020, 04:38:32 PM

Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on May 13, 2020, 03:35:45 PM

Have you been to a grocery store lately?  Food prices are way way up.

If it is true that the actual increase overall is 1.5%, that's not "skyrocketing".  It's 75 cents on a $50 grocery bill.

And yes, I was at the grocery store a few days ago.  And I buy all of my meat at a local butcher who seems to have plenty of supply.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on May 13, 2020, 04:43:35 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on May 13, 2020, 04:38:32 PM

If it is true that the actual increase overall is 1.5%, that's not "skyrocketing".  It's 75 cents on a $50 grocery bill.

And yes, I was at the grocery store a few days ago.  And I buy all of my meat at a local butcher who seems to have plenty of supply.

According to the Department of Labor and Statistics, meat and poultry prices were up 4.3% in April. Baked goods, cereals, were up 3%...etc....prices have been up significantly.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 13, 2020, 06:51:16 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 12, 2020, 08:39:15 AM

This is scary stuff. Stalinist stuff. Putinish stuff. Name a murderous despot, and this is the kind of stuff he pulled.

I guess President Pandemic has little choice but to charge his predecessor with unnamed crimes now, though. He is one of the most disapproved-of presidents since approval polls were born 70+ years ago, and his inaction and lies contributed to a crisis that will result in the deaths of 100K+ Americans.

He spent 8 years trying (and failing) to prove that his predecessor was a Kenyan Muslim, so he might as well take another crack at him here.

As he liked to say before pushing a deadly, unvetted drug on COVID-19 patients (but a drug he no longer mentions because somebody finally was able to convince him that it was deadly and unvetted): What does he have to lose?

I am old enough to remember when we all cared about transparency, when we all cared about overreaching law enforcement and government.  Especially the FBI.  Hoover had bad things going on, and we protested the CIA in the 60's and 70's, but it appears not much has changed.  They should release all the documents to the American people to decide.  Whether COVID is going on our not, Americans deserve to know if we were put through charade for a few years and the most recent information sure makes it appear to be the case.  It also fits perfectly into the man you and I don't care for because he will say a much better COVID response could have happened it if weren't for a dumb impeachment on charges that appear more and more to have been based on nothing.  He is going to go there, and if more documents support that, he will have a strong escape hatch to say gov't was obsessed with stupid political games for several years the culminated around the same time a world wide epidemic was about to hit our shores.   

Release all the documents.  Transparency used to matter, why doesn't it now?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 13, 2020, 06:54:44 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 13, 2020, 06:51:16 PM

Transparency used to matter, why doesn't it now?

Agreed. Let’s see POTUS’ tax returns.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 13, 2020, 07:18:29 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 13, 2020, 06:54:44 PM

Agreed. Let’s see POTUS’ tax returns.

On board, sir

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 13, 2020, 08:02:49 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 13, 2020, 06:54:44 PM

Agreed. Let’s see POTUS’ tax returns.

Keep in mind, we should all be well aware by now he agrees those should be released as he’s a lifelong Democrat. He only speaks out against Democrats because he wants it to be “both sides,” as he says over, and over, and over, and over.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on May 13, 2020, 08:19:49 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on May 13, 2020, 04:43:35 PM

According to the Department of Labor and Statistics, meat and poultry prices were up 4.3% in April. Baked goods, cereals, were up 3%...etc....prices have been up significantly.

I am not arguing whether or not grocery prices are up are not.  My point was that this news show began a story declaring that grocery prices had skyrocketed, and then went on to say that the actual increase was 1.5%. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on May 13, 2020, 08:51:28 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on May 13, 2020, 08:19:49 PM

I am not arguing whether or not grocery prices are up are not.  My point was that this news show began a story declaring that grocery prices had skyrocketed, and then went on to say that the actual increase was 1.5%.

It's the largest one month price increase for groceries since February of 1974. The report itself from the Department of Labor Statistics uses the term "sharply" increased. The numbers are considered significant.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 13, 2020, 09:26:27 PM

went to HyVee today, first time hitting a full grocery shop since shut down.

It was weird some of the things that were out of stock (frozen pizzas, cream cheese, goldfish).  Milk and eggs were fully stocked.  But TP was still hammered.  They were selling individual rolls out of an industrial box for a buck.

Plus, damn near everything was on sale.

GMA was breathless with their reporting on the increase in grocery prices too, FWIW.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 13, 2020, 09:44:43 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 13, 2020, 09:23:45 AM

That's not quite true.
The head of IDPH discussed this yesterday.

“There are also some additional deaths that happen in someone who happened to be COVID positive, but where the COVID infection had nothing to do with the deaths,” she said. “So we are at IDPH trying to remove those obvious cases where the COVID diagnosis was not the reason for the death. If there was a gunshot wound, if there was a motor vehicle accident, we know that that was not related to the COVID positive status.
“We are trying to make sure that things that aren’t related at all to the COVID diagnosis are removed, but if someone has another illness, like heart disease, and then had a stroke or other event, it’s not as easy to separate that and say COVID didn’t exacerbate that existing illness. That would not be removed from the count,” she added.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/coronavirus/dr-ngozi-ezike-refutes-notion-that-illinois-is-over-counting-covid-19-deaths/2270810/

Then she changed what she said three weeks ago.

https://youtu.be/H5FdnrRR2iY 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 13, 2020, 09:48:04 PM

Have we every quarantined the healthy before?  A few more doctors asking that question again.  Doesn't that hurt our immunity?   It feels backwards.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 13, 2020, 10:58:52 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 13, 2020, 09:48:04 PM

Have we every quarantined the healthy before?  A few more doctors asking that question again.  Doesn't that hurt our immunity?   It feels backwards.

Yep...during the Spanish Flu pandemic. And we learned that the earlier and more aggressive measures actually worked. In fact, Milwaukee was one of the leaders in reducing deaths by closing things down.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200330110344.htm

According to the data and analysis, cities that adopted early, broad isolation and prevention measures -- closing of schools and churches, banning of mass gatherings, mandated mask wearing, case isolation and disinfection/hygiene measures -- had lower disease and mortality rates. These cities included San Francisco, St. Louis, Milwaukee and Kansas City, which collectively had 30% to 50% lower disease and mortality rates than cities that enacted fewer and later restrictions. One analysis showed that these cities also had greater delays in reaching peak mortality, and the duration of these measures correlated with a reduced total mortality burden.

"The stricter the isolation policies, the lower the mortality rate," says Dr. Pambuccian. He studied the Spanish flu, including prevention measures and outcomes, to help develop standards for staffing and safety in the cytology lab, where infectious diseases like the COVID-19 virus are diagnosed and studied at the cellular level. His broader article appeared online this week in the Journal of the American Society of Cytopathology.

——————
If we could do it in 1918, we sure as hell should be better prepared today.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 13, 2020, 11:21:51 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 13, 2020, 09:48:04 PM

Have we every quarantined the healthy before?  A few more doctors asking that question again.  Doesn't that hurt our immunity?   It feels backwards.

Being reactive to a deadly virus seems smart. Unfortunately the administration running the country has seemed to think it’s smart too.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on May 13, 2020, 11:53:43 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 13, 2020, 09:48:04 PM

Have we every quarantined the healthy before?  A few more doctors asking that question again.  Doesn't that hurt our immunity?   It feels backwards.

Is there something about pre-symptomatic or asymptomatic spread you don't understand?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 14, 2020, 07:32:37 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 13, 2020, 09:26:27 PM

went to HyVee today, first time hitting a full grocery shop since shut down.

It was weird some of the things that were out of stock (frozen pizzas, cream cheese, goldfish).  Milk and eggs were fully stocked.  But TP was still hammered.  They were selling individual rolls out of an industrial box for a buck.

Plus, damn near everything was on sale.

GMA was breathless with their reporting on the increase in grocery prices too, FWIW.

As someone who has been to the grocery stores in the area and has dealings with them on an every day basis, the things that are out of stock are on trucks headed to the store, they'll be there in a day or so if you go.  People are just overbuying and going to the store less often.  When this is all said and done, I wonder how much food with end up in the trash instead of mouths.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 14, 2020, 07:44:11 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 14, 2020, 07:32:37 AM

As someone who has been to the grocery stores in the area and has dealings with them on an every day basis, the things that are out of stock are on trucks headed to the store, they'll be there in a day or so if you go.  People are just overbuying and going to the store less often.  When this is all said and done, I wonder how much food with end up in the trash instead of mouths.

FYI, generic response, not directed at you Hards

This is one of the artifacts of the sensationalism from media. The supply chain has some kinks and things to work out but it's not on the verge of collapse that some in media would have you believe.

Great resource for solid reporting and understanding of some of the different areas in the economy is the Freakonomics podcast by Stephen Dubner(one of the authors of Freakonomics)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 14, 2020, 07:48:04 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 14, 2020, 07:44:11 AM

FYI, generic response, not directed at you Hards

This is one of the artifacts of the sensationalism from media. The supply chain has some kinks and things to work out but it's not on the verge of collapse that some in media would have you believe.

Great resource for solid reporting and understanding of some of the different areas in the economy is the Freakonomics podcast by Stephen Dubner(one of the authors of Freakonomics)

It can be both.  There will be some shortages of items in the short term.  There are already limits on a ton of items at the local stores here in Dane Co.  But the supply chain will figure it out.  There is money to be made and logistics haven't been impacted.  Prices will climb and that only makes sense.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 14, 2020, 07:57:55 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 14, 2020, 07:44:11 AM

FYI, generic response, not directed at you Hards

This is one of the artifacts of the sensationalism from media. The supply chain has some kinks and things to work out but it's not on the verge of collapse that some in media would have you believe.

Great resource for solid reporting and understanding of some of the different areas in the economy is the Freakonomics podcast by Stephen Dubner(one of the authors of Freakonomics)

Actually one of the most hyperbolic sources about food supply warnings was....the food companies.  I've found the media to be pretty fair.  I am sure there is some hyperbole and 'attention grabbing' headlines though. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tyson-foods-chairman-warns-food-supply-chain-breaking-n1193256 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tyson-foods-chairman-warns-food-supply-chain-breaking-n1193256)

https://www.wsj.com/articles/smithfield-ceo-warns-of-risks-to-pork-supply-11586730489 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/smithfield-ceo-warns-of-risks-to-pork-supply-11586730489)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on May 14, 2020, 08:22:43 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 14, 2020, 07:32:37 AM

As someone who has been to the grocery stores in the area and has dealings with them on an every day basis, the things that are out of stock are on trucks headed to the store, they'll be there in a day or so if you go.  People are just overbuying and going to the store less often.  When this is all said and done, I wonder how much food with end up in the trash instead of mouths.

I say that everytime someone walks past me with a cart filled higher that they can see.  A lot of food will get wasted over the next few months

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 14, 2020, 08:32:09 AM

Quote from: injuryBug on May 14, 2020, 08:22:43 AM

I say that everytime someone walks past me with a cart filled higher that they can see.  A lot of food will get wasted over the next few months

It's hard though, right?  You want to limit trips to the store so you stock up on more food.  But that means you are probably buying things you don't normally buy.  Or you're buying more shelf stable foods.  I think in a year or two there will be some sort of Facebook or Twitter challenge where people show off their food that they horded in the time of the 'rona.  Expiration dates and volume will be some strange badge of honor.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 14, 2020, 08:37:22 AM

Maybe good news?

https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1260672217710501904

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on May 14, 2020, 08:40:46 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 14, 2020, 08:32:09 AM

It's hard though, right?  You want to limit trips to the store so you stock up on more food.  But that means you are probably buying things you don't normally buy.  Or you're buying more shelf stable foods.  I think in a year or two there will be some sort of Facebook or Twitter challenge where people show off their food that they horded in the time of the 'rona.  Expiration dates and volume will be some strange badge of honor.

family of 6 2 teenage boys and 12 year old twin girls i need to go every week just to keep up and my cart is pretty full.  I have found myself planning meals out much further though and trying to decrease the random trips for this or that

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on May 14, 2020, 08:42:44 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 14, 2020, 08:37:22 AM

Maybe good news?

https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1260672217710501904

That is great hopefully all the states opening up does not move this the other way

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 14, 2020, 08:44:52 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 14, 2020, 08:37:22 AM

Maybe good news?

https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1260672217710501904

Hard to say, honestly.  I think most of the dropping has happened in the NY/NJ/CT area, but I could be wrong.  So while yes, overall cases are dropping, we have seen spikes outside of the tri-state area.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 14, 2020, 08:46:39 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 14, 2020, 08:37:22 AM

Maybe good news?

https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1260672217710501904

This could be great news, particularly if it holds as the reopenings continue.

As an aside, I find Dr. Gottlieb to be a great source of info - right up there with the govt experts.  He gets policy/systemic mixed with science mixed with pragmatism in his opinions.

I was on a call where he was speaking earlier this week.  He is encouraged that we get a break this summer on the epidemic.  He was discouraged by our patch-work approach.  Felt that if we have weak-link states on testing & tracing we should just resign ourselves to prepare for another epidemic in the fall with severe stress on the health system.  He said there is still time to change course, but it will likely require a few states to prepare at a different level than they are today.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 14, 2020, 08:47:33 AM

Interesting discussion about the belief that unemployment leads to higher mortality rates. Some studies suggest that the mortality rate actually has gone down during periods of unemployment.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/coronavirus/article242688251.html?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 14, 2020, 09:10:18 AM

While grocery bills have increased at least the gas for the car bill is down.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 14, 2020, 09:11:23 AM

Quote from: MU82 on May 14, 2020, 08:47:33 AM

Interesting discussion about the belief that unemployment leads to higher mortality rates. Some studies suggest that the mortality rate actually has gone down during periods of unemployment.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/coronavirus/article242688251.html?

Well, it helps that we didn't lose a bunch of kids to gunfire at schools this year.  Do we get to count that statistic?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on May 14, 2020, 09:12:25 AM

I think people are not terrible grocery shoppers. -- They know the difference between perishable and non-perishable foods.   

As you walk around grocery stores the items that are out of stock are items that have a long shelf-life if properly stored.  Dry goods and meat can be stored for many months.

Everyone knows the struggle of bringing home food and needing to play tetris to wedge everything into their freezer(s).

Notice that your produce section is fully stocked, no outages?  That stuff can't be stored long term and no one is hoarding carrots.

Food won't be wasted (any more than usual.)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 14, 2020, 09:16:41 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on May 14, 2020, 09:12:25 AM

I think people are not terrible grocery shoppers. -- They know the difference between perishable and non-perishable foods.   

As you walk around grocery stores the items that are out of stock are items that have a long shelf-life if properly stored.  Dry goods and meat can be stored for many months.

Everyone knows the struggle of bringing home food and needing to play tetris to wedge everything into their freezer(s).

Notice that your produce section is fully stocked, no outages?  That stuff can't be stored long term and no one is hoarding carrots.

Food won't be wasted (any more than usual.)

I'd wager dollars to donuts that there will be plenty of freezer burned meat thrown out in a few months, and "expired" canned and dry goods.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 14, 2020, 09:19:10 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on May 14, 2020, 09:12:25 AM

I think people are not terrible grocery shoppers. -- They know the difference between perishable and non-perishable foods.   

As you walk around grocery stores the items that are out of stock are items that have a long shelf-life if properly stored.  Dry goods and meat can be stored for many months.

Everyone knows the struggle of bringing home food and needing to play tetris to wedge everything into their freezer(s).

Notice that your produce section is fully stocked, no outages?  That stuff can't be stored long term and no one is hoarding carrots.

Food won't be wasted (any more than usual.)

People should buy fresh and home pickle to make things last

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 14, 2020, 09:19:21 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 13, 2020, 08:53:29 AM

1. 8th in Covid19 deaths, 3rd in US population. 6.5% of US population, 2.1% of US deaths.

2. Florida has the (along with Maine) the highest % of senior citizens in the US - 20.5% and the second highest total number behind California. Nursing homes/senior living facilities are everywhere. Given these factors and who Covid kills, one would expect Florida to be an unmitigated disaster. Instead, it’s been a relative success.

3. It may be “to early” to draw conclusions about Florida’s success, but It’s not too early to draw conclusions about New York’s, New Jersey’s, Connecticut’s, Massachusetts’, Pennsylvania’s, Michigan’s and Illinois’ failures. I’m content and grateful to be in Florida and reasonably confident that despite our aging population we’ll be better off than most.

We should be rooting for Florida's success and I don't know why some are rooting against it (I do know why, but that's another time for another day).

Bloomberg has an opinion piece today that dives into Florida results, the enormous blowback they received initially and now how things look better than most places.  Of course all of this could turn and those that do not want it to succeed will express those wishes with glee.   As the headline says, the notion of a blue-state or red-state way of attacking this is absurd, but that is how it has played out.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-05-12/coronavirus-florida-s-reopening-is-worth-rooting-for

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 14, 2020, 09:24:49 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 14, 2020, 09:19:21 AM

We should be rooting for Florida's success and I don't know why some are rooting against it (I do know why, but that's another time for another day).

Bloomberg has an opinion piece today that dives into Florida results, the enormous blowback they received initially and now how things look better than most places.  Of course all of this could turn and those that do not want it to succeed will express those wishes with glee.   As the headline says, the notion of a blue-state or red-state way of attacking this is absurd, but that is how it has played out.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-05-12/coronavirus-florida-s-reopening-is-worth-rooting-for

Who, exactly, is rooting against Florida's success? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 14, 2020, 09:30:55 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 14, 2020, 09:19:21 AM

We should be rooting for Florida's success and I don't know why some are rooting against it (I do know why, but that's another time for another day).

Bloomberg has an opinion piece today that dives into Florida results, the enormous blowback they received initially and now how things look better than most places.  Of course all of this could turn and those that do not want it to succeed will express those wishes with glee.   As the headline says, the notion of a blue-state or red-state way of attacking this is absurd, but that is how it has played out.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-05-12/coronavirus-florida-s-reopening-is-worth-rooting-for

I don't know of anyone who is rooting against their success. Most of the criticism I have seen stems from their policies of only listing full-time residents and those who tested positive among their officially reported COVID deaths. The residency requirement eliminates many potential snowbird victims, and the positive test requirement ignores the horribly delayed response in developing accurate tests (leading many COVID victims to die at home, or "undiagnosed" in the hospital).

I am rooting for their success, but I don't think they can ever claim a definitive win or loss until they report the real numbers. If they do that and can still show the numbers coming under control, I will be the first to admit I predicted wrong.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on May 14, 2020, 09:31:30 AM

Is Florida still only counting deaths of residents, not snowbirds who happen to die there? Are they still only counting deaths as being Covid-related is there was laboratory confirmation? Are they still ordering county medical examiners to not publish their counts, as the county and state numbers were not consistent?
I genuinely do not know the answers here, but it was pointed out earlier in this thread that they could be under reporting their number of fatalities.
And no one is rooting for them to fail.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 14, 2020, 09:32:48 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 14, 2020, 09:24:49 AM

Who, exactly, is rooting against Florida's success?

500 economists?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 14, 2020, 09:33:09 AM

Cheeks cracks me up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on May 14, 2020, 09:42:06 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 14, 2020, 09:24:49 AM

Who, exactly, is rooting against Florida's success?

I remember someone else banging this drum about rooting against Wojo.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on May 14, 2020, 09:44:10 AM

(Freezer burned meat is safe to eat .. and with the costs of meat these days, you'd have to be Scrooge-McDuck-wealthy to toss it.  Dry goods are often good for a year+ and frankly could be used long past their expiration.)

Different topic - I hadn't heard about this kind of testing before, it was on TV and I can't find a link.

It's where you can test larger groups -- everyone spits into a tube and you test that one big loogie for COVID.   

If it's negative, you just cleared that huge pool of people.  If positive, then you need to test individuals.


Welcome to the MUBB game @Fiserv, please spit here and wait 10 minutes before taking your seat!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 14, 2020, 09:44:57 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 14, 2020, 09:19:21 AM

We should be rooting for Florida's success and I don't know why some are rooting against it (I do know why, but that's another time for another day).

Bloomberg has an opinion piece today that dives into Florida results, the enormous blowback they received initially and now how things look better than most places.  Of course all of this could turn and those that do not want it to succeed will express those wishes with glee.   As the headline says, the notion of a blue-state or red-state way of attacking this is absurd, but that is how it has played out.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-05-12/coronavirus-florida-s-reopening-is-worth-rooting-for

Joe Nocera (the writer of this opinion piece) makes one brief reference, in the 24th paragraph, about "partisans in this polarized country hoping to be vindicated by the numbers." But this piece is not at all a rant against people "rooting against" Florida successfully beating the virus. He mostly sticks to the facts to form and present his opinion.

Indeed, his conclusion suggests that just as many folks from the "other side" might be "rooting against" Cuomo:

In New York, Governor Andrew Cuomo is relying on strict lockdown conditions because that’s what a state with nearly 27,000 deaths in two months demands. In Florida, the steps DeSantis is taking seem appropriate for a state that hasn’t yet hit 1,800. What we should all be doing is rooting for them both to succeed. Is that really so hard?

I don't know why some are rooting so hard against New York, hoopaloop (I do know why, but that's another time for another day).

FWIW, I usually like Nocera's work, and I found this piece to be very interesting. I am one who criticized DeSantis, and maybe I did so too hastily.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 14, 2020, 09:46:40 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on May 14, 2020, 09:44:10 AM

(Freezer burned meat is safe to eat .. and with the costs of meat these days, you'd have to be Scrooge-McDuck-wealthy to toss it.  Dry goods are often good for a year+ and frankly could be used long past their expiration.)

Different topic - I hadn't heard about this kind of testing before, it was on TV and I can't find a link.

It's where you can test larger groups -- everyone spits into a tube and you test that one big loogie for COVID.   

If it's negative, you just cleared that huge pool of people.  If positive, then you need to test individuals.


Welcome to the MUBB game @Fiserv, please spit here and wait 10 minutes before taking your seat!

I'm aware that its perfectly safe to eat, but a lot of people take their expiration dates as gospel... and people are overall pretty dumb creatures.  ;D

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on May 14, 2020, 09:55:35 AM

Tomorrow morning I have my blood work relating to my annual physical.  They just called and asked if I wanted the antibody test -- $50 (but they'll try insurance first).  Sure.  Why not?  I don't think I've been infected, but apparently I'll know before too long.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 14, 2020, 10:02:49 AM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on May 14, 2020, 09:55:35 AM

Tomorrow morning I have my blood work relating to my annual physical.  They just called and asked if I wanted the antibody test -- $50 (but they'll try insurance first).  Sure.  Why not?  I don't think I've been infected, but apparently I'll know before too long.

Under the CARES Act, insurance gas to cover it.  At least that was what UW Health had on their website.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 14, 2020, 10:09:15 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 14, 2020, 10:02:49 AM

Under the CARES Act, insurance gas to cover it.  At least that was what UW Health had on their website.

IIRC, he said he is in Oho.

As an aside, I had en employee pop down to the Alliant Energy Center at 8am for a test, and he made it back to the office by 840am.  That is excellent news.  Go getcha test.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on May 14, 2020, 10:21:39 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 14, 2020, 10:02:49 AM

Under the CARES Act, insurance gas to cover it.  At least that was what UW Health had on their website.

Thanks.  I'll look into it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on May 14, 2020, 10:26:00 AM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on May 14, 2020, 09:55:35 AM

Tomorrow morning I have my blood work relating to my annual physical.  They just called and asked if I wanted the antibody test -- $50 (but they'll try insurance first).  Sure.  Why not?  I don't think I've been infected, but apparently I'll know before too long.

I'd go for it.  -- Also, I'm curious how you're scheduled for an "elective" medical appointment.  I'm overdue for a physical too, but I figured I had to wait until all that was lifted.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 14, 2020, 10:30:44 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 14, 2020, 10:09:15 AM

IIRC, he said he is in Oho.

As an aside, I had en employee pop down to the Alliant Energy Center at 8am for a test, and he made it back to the office by 840am.  That is excellent news.  Go getcha test.

The CARES Act is federal law, so it would apply regardless of state of residence.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 14, 2020, 10:46:39 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on May 14, 2020, 10:26:00 AM

I'd go for it.  -- Also, I'm curious how you're scheduled for an "elective" medical appointment.  I'm overdue for a physical too, but I figured I had to wait until all that was lifted.

Schedule it and work through the process.    Best friend having a colonoscopy tomorrow.    Scheduled 3 weeks ago.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on May 14, 2020, 10:46:57 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on May 14, 2020, 09:12:25 AM

Everyone knows the struggle of bringing home food and needing to play tetris to wedge everything into their freezer(s).

That is a hilarious,  but accurate,  image.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 14, 2020, 10:59:29 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 14, 2020, 09:30:55 AM

I don't know of anyone who is rooting against their success. Most of the criticism I have seen stems from their policies of only listing full-time residents and those who tested positive among their officially reported COVID deaths. The residency requirement eliminates many potential snowbird victims, and the positive test requirement ignores the horribly delayed response in developing accurate tests (leading many COVID victims to die at home, or "undiagnosed" in the hospital).

I am rooting for their success, but I don't think they can ever claim a definitive win or loss until they report the real numbers. If they do that and can still show the numbers coming under control, I will be the first to admit I predicted wrong.

And the problem with the under reporting is that it is leading to an attitude of "See, no big deal, I am not wearing a mask or practicing social distancing." It is encouraging reckless behavior. I know, I see it first hand.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 14, 2020, 11:48:28 AM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on May 14, 2020, 09:55:35 AM

Tomorrow morning I have my blood work relating to my annual physical.  They just called and asked if I wanted the antibody test -- $50 (but they'll try insurance first).  Sure.  Why not?  I don't think I've been infected, but apparently I'll know before too long.

The one thing that I'll caution is that these tests have a false positive rate that can be as high as 20%. They are usually quite reliable in being able to tell you that you have not gotten the virus.

But a lot of the kits are not reliable in being able to tell you that you actually DID actually get the virus.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on May 14, 2020, 12:02:10 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on May 14, 2020, 10:26:00 AM

I'd go for it.  -- Also, I'm curious how you're scheduled for an "elective" medical appointment.  I'm overdue for a physical too, but I figured I had to wait until all that was lifted.

Electives have come back. Having kidney donation in early june.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 14, 2020, 12:03:12 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on May 14, 2020, 10:26:00 AM

I'd go for it.  -- Also, I'm curious how you're scheduled for an "elective" medical appointment.  I'm overdue for a physical too, but I figured I had to wait until all that was lifted.

I just tried to schedule my eye exam - I am way overdue, and I finally need glasses after having had Lasik 20 years ago. But they said they aren't going to schedule routine exams for at least another month.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 14, 2020, 12:34:52 PM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on May 14, 2020, 12:02:10 PM

Electives have come back. Having kidney donation in early june.

You are?  Dang, good luck and good health.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 14, 2020, 12:38:51 PM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on May 14, 2020, 12:02:10 PM

Electives have come back. Having kidney donation in early june.

Hope it goes well

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 14, 2020, 12:41:39 PM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on May 14, 2020, 12:02:10 PM

Electives have come back. Having kidney donation in early june.

Sorry to hear you need one, glad to see you're getting one.  What will this mean for your employment after your surgery, since you will most certainly be immunocompromised?  You don't need to answer if its too personal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on May 14, 2020, 12:45:04 PM

Good luck with the kidney donation.  I have a friend who donated to her husband (yes, she was the best match) a few months ago, and so far all is going well. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 14, 2020, 02:57:05 PM

Speaking of Florida.  The Onion is right on queue.

---

Florida Governor Deploys National Guard To Force Residents Back Into Malls, Movie Theaters
https://www.theonion.com/florida-governor-deploys-national-guard-to-force-reside-1843463980?utm_source=TheOnion_Daily_RSS&utm_medium=email

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 14, 2020, 03:35:28 PM

https://twitter.com/markmobility/status/1260940493615235073?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 14, 2020, 04:17:29 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on May 14, 2020, 03:35:28 PM

https://twitter.com/markmobility/status/1260940493615235073?s=19

Let me save Cheeks the time. Do you really think any other administration would handle this differently in an election year? No chance. Political suicide!

For the record just so everyone knows, I want to throw this out there, I’ve never voted anything but Republican in my life. There are just issues on both sides. Just want everyone to know. Both sides.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 14, 2020, 04:57:20 PM

I know some feel these types of articles are making people "panic," but here are some young patients and their parents describing the COVID-related infections that are sending them to the ICU ...

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article242728091.html?

A 14-year-old in Portland, Oregon, had to be rushed to the hospital with heart failure. A baby in California’s Bay Area started developing big rashes on her hands, along with swelling legs and red eyes. An 8-year-old boy in New York City became so weak he couldn’t breathe.

Multiple reports from around the country describe what is happening to children who develop what doctors are calling a coronavirus-related syndrome that looks similar to Kawasaki disease. The syndrome was first reported in London, but doctors in New York soon started seeing cases of the rare inflammatory disease there, too.

Researchers studying the province of Bergamo, Italy — hit hard by the pandemic — reported they found a 30-fold increase in children with Kawasaki-like symptoms.

The researchers compared data from two months of the outbreak in Italy from February to April and the five years before the coronavirus emerged, according to the article published in The Lancet medical journal Wednesday.

More than 100 children in New York state have developed the rare syndrome and three have died, according to The New York Times.

Cases have been reported around the country as well. A hospital in Detroit, another coronavirus hot spot, has treated more than 20 kids for the symptoms, according to the Detroit Free Press.

Dr. Jeffrey Burns, a doctor at Boston Children’s Hospital, said he is helping coordinate doctors around the world to discuss the new condition and compare notes, according to CNN.

“This multisystem inflammatory syndrome is not directly caused by the virus,” he said on CNN. “The leading hypothesis is that it is due to the immune response of the patient.”

The 8th grade girl in Portland, named Leah, had already not been feeling well when her condition got much worse, she told ABC News.

“I told my mom I needed to go to the hospital, that I wasn’t feeling well and that I needed her to take me because it was like — it was a weird pain that I was having,” she told ABC. The broadcaster said it withheld the 14-year-old’s last name to protect her privacy.

She had a fever. Her eyes were bloodshot and red. Leah’s doctor in Portland had already heard of the strange symptoms some kids were developing during the pandemic, so he had paramedics take her straight to the emergency room, according ABC News.

Her doctor called Leah’s case a “textbook” example of the new COVID-related symptoms that are appearing in this new syndrome, ABC News reports.

A 6-month-old baby in Santa Clara County developed the symptoms in March, when doctors still did not know what was going on with these complications in children, according to ABC7 News.

The baby’s mom, identified as Mahera, said, “The rashes were also getting very big and her hands and legs started kind of swelling. Her eyes were getting red,” according to the station.

She took her baby, named Zara, to the Lucile Packard Children’s Hospital Stanford where the girl tested positive for the coronavirus, ABC7 reported.

Dr. Yvonne Maldonado, who treated Zara, told the television station, “It was a very interesting case, because I mentioned it to my colleagues around the country back when it happened, and I said are any of you seeing this? And they said no, not at all.”

“The main thing that we worry about with Kawasaki is that there can be longer term complications... And those include inflammation of the arteries, especially those around the heart,” Maldonado said, ABC7 reports.

Eight-year-old Jayden, from Queens, New York, started having a fever and diarrhea in late April, likely from the coronavirus, according to The New York Post. But his condition deteriorated.

On April 29, Jayden called to his mother as he lost the strength to breathe, according to the newspaper. The boy started to turn blue and his 15-year-old brother began to give him CPR, a skill he picked up in Boy Scouts, The Post reported.

Jayden had started to go into cardiac arrest, the boy’s father told CNN on Wednesday. Roup Hardowar said his younger son was in the hospital for two weeks recovering.

Doctors told the parents that their son suffered from the condition linked to the coronavirus. Jayden tested negative for the virus, but did have the antibodies for COVID-19, indicating an earlier infection, CNN reports.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on May 14, 2020, 05:07:11 PM

"When you test, you have a case. When you test, you find something is wrong with people. If we didn't do any testing we would have very few cases."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 14, 2020, 05:31:56 PM

Quote from: Mutaman on May 14, 2020, 05:07:11 PM

"When you test, you have a case. When you test, you find something is wrong with people. If we didn't do any testing we would have very few cases."

“We have the best testing in the world. Could be that testing is, frankly, overrated. Maybe it is overrated.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 14, 2020, 07:07:23 PM

Quote from: Mutaman on May 14, 2020, 05:07:11 PM

"When you test, you have a case. When you test, you find something is wrong with people. If we didn't do any testing we would have very few cases."

Put him on Mt. Rushmore yesterday

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 14, 2020, 08:14:06 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 14, 2020, 09:24:49 AM

Who, exactly, is rooting against Florida's success?

March 28th to April 5th read the comments here by a number of members.  The cheerleading in how stupid he was, how the death rate would have exploded by now.  Even last week how he has to be hiding the numbers. 

The partisanship is so bad. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 14, 2020, 08:21:18 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 14, 2020, 08:14:06 PM

March 28th to April 5th read the comments here by a number of members.  The cheerleading in how stupid he was, how the death rate would have exploded by now.  Even last week how he has to be hiding the numbers. 

The partisanship is so bad.

None of which was rooting for Florida to fail.

Funny coming from a guy who has never once voted for anything but a Democrat in his life.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 14, 2020, 08:40:19 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 14, 2020, 08:14:06 PM

March 28th to April 5th read the comments here by a number of members.  The cheerleading in how stupid he was, how the death rate would have exploded by now.  Even last week how he has to be hiding the numbers. 

The partisanship is so bad.

You don’t know the difference between predicting failure and hoping for it? It’s pretty clear.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 14, 2020, 08:44:24 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 14, 2020, 08:14:06 PM

March 28th to April 5th read the comments here by a number of members.  The cheerleading in how stupid he was, how the death rate would have exploded by now.  Even last week how he has to be hiding the numbers. 

The partisanship is so bad.

This is the same dumb logic that says criticism of war = rooting against the troops.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 14, 2020, 08:49:13 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 14, 2020, 08:14:06 PM

March 28th to April 5th read the comments here by a number of members.  The cheerleading in how stupid he was, how the death rate would have exploded by now.  Even last week how he has to be hiding the numbers. 

The partisanship is so bad.

Criticism equals rooting for failure.   Creeping fascism.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 14, 2020, 09:40:43 PM

Is this satisfactory to everyone or is this another instance of someone trying to ‘scare people’.

 https://thehill.com/homenews/news/497917-cdc-issues-advisory-about-severe-coronavirus-related-illness-in-children (https://thehill.com/homenews/news/497917-cdc-issues-advisory-about-severe-coronavirus-related-illness-in-children)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on May 14, 2020, 09:48:46 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 14, 2020, 09:40:43 PM

Is this satisfactory to everyone or is this another instance of someone trying to ‘scare people’.

 https://thehill.com/homenews/news/497917-cdc-issues-advisory-about-severe-coronavirus-related-illness-in-children (https://thehill.com/homenews/news/497917-cdc-issues-advisory-about-severe-coronavirus-related-illness-in-children)

It’s an advisory alert and directive to medical professionals to provide more information. Similar to outbreaks of other contagious diseases that occur.

It’s VERY different than calling it “terrifying” or saying 30-fold for something that now affects .3% of children instead of .01%. Or other inflammatory headlines.

It does exactly what should be done. Inform and bring awareness, not incite fear or increasing anxiety.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 14, 2020, 10:03:47 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 14, 2020, 08:44:24 PM

This is the same dumb logic that says criticism of war = rooting against the troops.

Or criticizing the president = "They hate America."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on May 14, 2020, 10:14:28 PM

Quote from: wadesworld on May 14, 2020, 04:17:29 PM

Let me save Cheeks the time. Do you really think any other administration would handle this differently in an election year? No chance. Political suicide!

For the record just so everyone knows, I want to throw this out there, I’ve never voted anything but Republican in my life. There are just issues on both sides. Just want everyone to know. Both sides.

Just speculation but i don't suspect any other administration would be accusing joe Scarborough of murder in the middle of a pandemic. or accusing their predecessor of treason, or saying we should inject bleach to kill COVID-19. Or appointing their dim witted son in law to lead the fight. not even jerry ford. Just me speculating.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 14, 2020, 10:36:45 PM

Quote from: Mutaman on May 14, 2020, 10:14:28 PM

Just speculation but i don't suspect any other administration would be accusing joe Scarborough of murder in the middle of a pandemic. or accusing their predecessor of treason, or saying we should inject bleach to kill COVID-19. Or appointing their dim witted son in law to lead the fight. not even jerry ford. Just me speculating.

Come on.  Don’t be so naive.  That’s political suicide if you don’t handle it that way.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on May 14, 2020, 10:49:11 PM

Quote from: wadesworld on May 14, 2020, 10:36:45 PM

Come on.  Don’t be so naive.  That’s political suicide if you don’t handle it that way.

Exercising a modicum of leadership and competency = "political suicide"? As opposed to 90,000 dead and 37 million unemployed? ok.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: BM1090 on May 14, 2020, 11:09:48 PM

Quote from: Mutaman on May 14, 2020, 10:49:11 PM

Exercising a modicum of leadership and competency = "political suicide"? As opposed to 90,000 dead and 37 million unemployed? ok.

Sarcasm, man.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on May 14, 2020, 11:53:24 PM

Quote from: BM1090 on May 14, 2020, 11:09:48 PM

Sarcasm, man.

I suppose. But its hard keeping all the Wades and the MUs straight here. This sounded straight out of the Trumpster playbook.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 15, 2020, 06:51:33 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 14, 2020, 08:14:06 PM

March 28th to April 5th read the comments here by a number of members.  The cheerleading in how stupid he was, how the death rate would have exploded by now.  Even last week how he has to be hiding the numbers. 

The partisanship is so bad.

I think you misunderstand the word "Exactly". 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 15, 2020, 06:54:18 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on May 14, 2020, 09:48:46 PM

It’s an advisory alert and directive to medical professionals to provide more information. Similar to outbreaks of other contagious diseases that occur.

It’s VERY different than calling it “terrifying” or saying 30-fold for something that now affects .3% of children instead of .01%. Or other inflammatory headlines.

It does exactly what should be done. Inform and bring awareness, not incite fear or increasing anxiety.

I agree, we could use some reporting without the inflammatory language.  But that type of language is so prevalent that everything feels like an exaggeration to me.  I'm just sort of numb to it at this point.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 15, 2020, 09:21:44 AM

The study below by the U of MN is pretty damn scary. It shows that small extensions of the stay at home order - a week or two - would not significantly delay the peak or decrease total deaths. I will be the first to admit that the latter part surprised me. I thought keeping people home a few more weeks would make a bigger difference.

But the raw numbers are what really stunned me. With our order expiring at Midnight Sunday, the predicted deaths are as follows:

As of today: 663
By May 31: 1441
By March: 29,000

That's right: 29,000 deaths in one state that has excellent healthcare capabilities, and which thus far has done fairly well at keeping the numbers down.

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/05/14/latest-mn-modeling-major-effect-of-quarantine-is-delaying-covid19-peak-not-preventing-it

Then I thought about what this might mean for the country. MN currently accounts for about 1.7% of the US population, so I did a rough extrapolation of that number across the US population (recognizing that some areas will likely do better, and some worse; like I said, a rough calculation). The result would mean 1.7 million deaths by March. We are currently at 85,000 nationally.

I recognize that this is just one study, and there are many moving parts. But if those numbers prove to be anywhere close to accurate, they indicate that we are in for a long, painful year.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on May 15, 2020, 09:44:24 AM

Quote from: Mutaman on May 14, 2020, 10:14:28 PM

Just speculation but i don't suspect any other administration would be accusing joe Scarborough of murder in the middle of a pandemic. or accusing their predecessor of treason, or saying we should inject bleach to kill COVID-19. Or appointing their dim witted son in law to lead the fight. not even jerry ford. Just me speculating.

I try to picture Billy Carter leading a task force if something like this happened under Jimmy Carter lol.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 15, 2020, 09:48:28 AM

Gooo - it really points to whether or not you believe there is/will be an effective vaccine and treatment (I say is for rocket).  If we think we can do it, better to delay.  If we think it’s unlikely, then we are just delaying the inevitable. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 15, 2020, 09:58:09 AM

Quote from: Greggery Peccary on May 15, 2020, 09:44:24 AM

I try to picture Billy Carter leading a task force if something like this happened under Jimmy Carter lol.

Had Hillary won, right-wingers would have had a collective coronary if she had appointed either Chelsea or Marc Mezvinsky to bring peace to the Middle East and to lead the U.S. response to a global pandemic.

But at least Jared has declared victory over the coronavirus, so there's that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on May 15, 2020, 09:59:30 AM

One question I have is when did the guidance on masks change and why? I believe the CDC and Dr. Fauci said masks didn’t matter much unless they were N95. Due to poor fit, causing people to touch their face, and giving a false sense of security, they did more harm than good. Plus, the particles are so small it doesn’t block transmission.

Now there are comments like “if you want to know if someone is a thoughtless jerk, just look to see if they aren’t wearing a mask.”

I’ll definitely wear a mask if mandated, it just seems like there’s been a 180 on this. I’ve avoided it because all I have are makeshift masks that either don’t cover everything or are a very poor fit. For example, if I keep reusing the same mask, I think the virus stays on that material for awhile.

Just have been surprised about the mask mandates as in the beginning it seemed like most medical professionals thought there wasn’t a benefit.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 15, 2020, 10:03:04 AM

Quote from: cheebs09 on May 15, 2020, 09:59:30 AM

One question I have is when did the guidance on masks change and why? I believe the CDC and Dr. Fauci said masks didn’t matter much unless they were N95. Due to poor fit, causing people to touch their face, and giving a false sense of security, they did more harm than good. Plus, the particles are so small it doesn’t block transmission.

Now there are comments like “if you want to know if someone is a thoughtless jerk, just look to see if they aren’t wearing a mask.”

I’ll definitely wear a mask if mandated, it just seems like there’s been a 180 on this. I’ve avoided it because all I have are makeshift masks that either don’t cover everything or are a very poor fit. For example, if I keep reusing the same mask, I think the virus stays on that material for awhile.

Just have been surprised about the mask mandates as in the beginning it seemed like most medical professionals thought there wasn’t a benefit.

Most of what I have read seems to indicate that a simple cotton mask is essentially useless in preventing you from getting infected, but it can help in preventing you from spreading the infection to others if you have it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 15, 2020, 10:06:29 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 15, 2020, 09:48:28 AM

Gooo - it really points to whether or not you believe there is/will be an effective vaccine and treatment (I say is for rocket).  If we think we can do it, better to delay.  If we think it’s unlikely, then we are just delaying the inevitable.

I think there will be some advances on the treatment front, but I am skeptical that they will arrive soon or be dramatic. As for a vaccine, I fully believe we will have one, but almost certainly not before March.

My hope was that the delay from stay at home orders would be more effective in reducing total numbers for a longer period of time. This study, if it proves to be correct, seems to indicate that delays are small and minimally effective.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 15, 2020, 10:06:54 AM

Quote from: cheebs09 on May 15, 2020, 09:59:30 AM

Just have been surprised about the mask mandates as in the beginning it seemed like most medical professionals thought there wasn’t a benefit.

I always thought this was an interesting east vs. west debate too.  If we take the assumption that no culture owns the smartest health care professionals...then it sure doesnt seem as settled as our medical pro's made it seem initially.  I also think that our severe shortage in PPE played into this messaging too (at least from the govt).  We were short and wanted to preserve the masks for those who needed them--warning this isnt an attempt to be political - other govts were short too.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on May 15, 2020, 10:19:49 AM

Quote from: cheebs09 on May 15, 2020, 09:59:30 AM

One question I have is when did the guidance on masks change and why? I believe the CDC and Dr. Fauci said masks didn’t matter much unless they were N95. Due to poor fit, causing people to touch their face, and giving a false sense of security, they did more harm than good. Plus, the particles are so small it doesn’t block transmission.

Now there are comments like “if you want to know if someone is a thoughtless jerk, just look to see if they aren’t wearing a mask.”

I’ll definitely wear a mask if mandated, it just seems like there’s been a 180 on this. I’ve avoided it because all I have are makeshift masks that either don’t cover everything or are a very poor fit. For example, if I keep reusing the same mask, I think the virus stays on that material for awhile.

The mob mentality surrounding this is so annoying. On both sides.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 15, 2020, 10:28:31 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 15, 2020, 10:06:29 AM

I think there will be some advances on the treatment front, but I am skeptical that they will arrive soon or be dramatic. As for a vaccine, I fully believe we will have one, but almost certainly not before March.

My hope was that the delay from stay at home orders would be more effective in reducing total numbers for a longer period of time. This study, if it proves to be correct, seems to indicate that delays are small and minimally effective.

I'm a bit more optimistic on the treatment front. I think we see some monoclonal antibody treatments come online pretty fast.

The question is when. September would be unprecedented speed, but would save countless lives. If it takes to December?...still a lot of deaths.

And I agree with those models. If we can't get a treatment online, the probability we see deaths over 1M is high. I'm cautiously optimistic we can get treatments online. I'm basing my optimism on some colleagues in this arena, who are normally fairly pessimistic, but who are instead surprisingly optimistic here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 15, 2020, 10:59:21 AM

Here we go ... President Pandemic on my state, NC:

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/rnc-2020/article242759436.html?

President Donald Trump this week accused North Carolina Gov. Roy Cooper of “playing politics” with reopening the state, and said it would be “bad for them” if the state were to delay the start of the Republican National Convention in Charlotte.

Trump made his comments in an interview with the Washington Examiner. In a wide-ranging interview, reporter Salena Zito asked him whether Democrats’ plan to scale back their convention would affect the GOP gathering, which is scheduled to start Aug. 24.

“No, no,” Trump replied. “We’ll have a convention. I’m a traditionalist, but we’ll have to see, like everything else, but I think we’ll be in good shape by that time. We have a great state, North Carolina, that’s been very, very good.

“Although, it’s got a Democrat governor, so we have to be a little bit careful. It’s got a Democrat governor, so we have to be a little bit careful with that, because they’re playing politics. They’re playing politics, as you know, by delaying the openings. ... To me that’s politics. They think it’s a bad thing for me if they delay the opening. I think it’s bad for them. And you have people protesting outside, and those people like Trump.”

So much here to unwrap ...

Yeah, the protesters -- all couple hundred of them -- love Trump. You could tell from the confederate flags, the guns, the white faces and the guys talking about lynching.

And it sure sounds like somebody is "playing politics" there, but it isn't Cooper -- who is following the very guidelines Trump himself set. Actually, Cooper very much wants to re-open the state's economy and has been gradually doing so even though all of the benchmarks haven't been met.

And what is  "bad for them"? Another threat from the guy who threatened to withhold PPE to states unless the governors bent the knee and kissed the emperor's ... um ... ring?

And it isn't Trump's decision if we even hold the RNC anymore.

And finally, if President Pandemic is a "traditionalist," so are Bernie Sanders, Ron Paul and Ross Perot.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 15, 2020, 11:34:48 AM

Quote from: MUfan12 on May 15, 2020, 10:19:49 AM

The mob mentality surrounding this is so annoying. On both sides.

Evidence at this point indicates that wearing a mask reduces the likelihood of spreading the virus if you have it.
Refusing to wear a mask says "I don't care if I pass a potentially fatal disease onto others."
I'm not sure what you mean by mob mentality, but a little public shaming of these idiots doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 15, 2020, 11:47:43 AM

Quote from: forgetful on May 15, 2020, 10:28:31 AM

The question is when. September would be unprecedented speed, but would save countless lives. If it takes to December?...still a lot of deaths.

forgetful, is the timeline mostly driven by the need to ramp up mass production? Or is there still a lengthy period of testing to prove efficacy and safety?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 15, 2020, 12:15:06 PM

Quote from: forgetful on May 15, 2020, 10:28:31 AM

I'm a bit more optimistic on the treatment front. I think we see some monoclonal antibody treatments come online pretty fast.

The question is when. September would be unprecedented speed, but would save countless lives. If it takes to December?...still a lot of deaths.

And I agree with those models. If we can't get a treatment online, the probability we see deaths over 1M is high. I'm cautiously optimistic we can get treatments online. I'm basing my optimism on some colleagues in this arena, who are normally fairly pessimistic, but who are instead surprisingly optimistic here.

I sure hope your optimism is warranted. In my years of experience in watching new drugs get developed up close, I still think a December timeline is a huge longshot.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 15, 2020, 12:20:31 PM

Yesterday, Texas health officials reported 58 new deaths related to the coronavirus and 1,448 new cases, the highest single-day increase for both numbers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 15, 2020, 12:45:52 PM

Between this article and the success of convalescent plasma seems probable that long term and herd immunity will be a thing

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/t-cells-found-covid-19-patients-bode-well-long-term-immunity# (https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/t-cells-found-covid-19-patients-bode-well-long-term-immunity#)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 15, 2020, 01:30:11 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 15, 2020, 12:45:52 PM

Between this article and the success of convalescent plasma seems probable that long term and herd immunity will be a thing

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/t-cells-found-covid-19-patients-bode-well-long-term-immunity# (https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/t-cells-found-covid-19-patients-bode-well-long-term-immunity#)

This is great news.  I feel like it’s been a while since we have learned anything new with this virus (at least on the positive side).  So just reading about a deeper understanding of how we fight this was uplifting.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 15, 2020, 02:02:45 PM

Quote from: Jockey on May 15, 2020, 12:20:31 PM

Yesterday, Texas health officials reported 58 new deaths related to the coronavirus and 1,448 new cases, the highest single-day increase for both numbers.

Stop rooting for Texans to die, brand!

Because, dontcha know, stating a fact = rooting for death.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 15, 2020, 02:11:09 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 15, 2020, 06:51:33 AM

I think you misunderstand the word "Exactly".

There were so many of you it wasn't exactly worth my time.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 15, 2020, 02:14:37 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 15, 2020, 01:30:11 PM

This is great news.  I feel like it’s been a while since we have learned anything new with this virus (at least on the positive side).  So just reading about a deeper understanding of how we fight this was uplifting.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1261052353773363200.html (https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1261052353773363200.html)

Heres another positive, albeit preliminary, study on immunity. High likelihood that a vaccine can be found and a possibility that a vaccine could be found leveraging existing vaccines (alteration of timeline and likely safer vaccine). Also provides some indication if your body is good at fighting off the flu that it reduces the impact of Covid.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 15, 2020, 02:15:02 PM

Masks were to be used, then they shouldn't, then they should per our medical experts.

There was the story out of Stanford early on that mouthwash killed the virus, then it was debunked as a myth, now yesterday a strong push again that mouthwash may kill the virus and be a treatment (limited) for this.

Virus was contagious person to person, then it wasn't (WHO), then it was.

I feel bad for the medical experts because they do not know.  It is also why people are frustrated because they are used to some MacGyver 1 hour solution. In my opinion it is also why people (including politicians) entertain other ideas that may or may not work in the hope of a magical elixir.  The back and forth of what is or isn't effective and the continual changes by experts doesn't help.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 15, 2020, 02:26:25 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 15, 2020, 02:11:09 PM

There were so many of you it wasn't exactly worth my time.

Yet, you can't find exactly a single instance.  Ever consider you dreamed it up, sure wouldn't be the first time.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 15, 2020, 02:27:44 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 15, 2020, 02:15:02 PM

Masks were to be used, then they shouldn't, then they should per our medical experts.

There was the story out of Stanford early on that mouthwash killed the virus, then it was debunked as a myth, now yesterday a strong push again that mouthwash may kill the virus and be a treatment (limited) for this.

Virus was contagious person to person, then it wasn't (WHO), then it was.

I feel bad for the medical experts because they do not know.  It is also why people are frustrated because they are used to some MacGyver 1 hour solution. In my opinion it is also why people (including politicians) entertain other ideas that may or may not work in the hope of a magical elixir.  The back and forth of what is or isn't effective and the continual changes by experts doesn't help.

Well it’s a good thing we have a president getting up in front of the country suggesting all of these things work without knowing then, isn’t it?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 15, 2020, 02:33:40 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on May 15, 2020, 11:47:43 AM

forgetful, is the timeline mostly driven by the need to ramp up mass production? Or is there still a lengthy period of testing to prove efficacy and safety?

Monoclonal antibodies shouldn't be too difficult to scale up to a reasonable level. It's not like a vaccine, where the entire population needs it. Just those that are sick. So I think we should be ok on that front, as long as things don't get too crazy.

The limitation on timeline is proving efficacy and safety. Under normal scenarios, I would put the timeline on the order of a couple years. But, things will be accelerated, and their are a lot of irons in the fire.

I think China ends up leading on this, as they will allow for a lot more risk in testing efficacy and safety. They had already made good progress in identifying, and testing (in cells) a wide library of antibodies. They will be moving them into animal/human testing pretty quickly.

My optimism is at in that library, at least one proves efficacy. We then are hoping it is also safe.

Goooo is not wrong in saying that my timeline may be overly optimistic. My normal inclination lies closer to his, but have some friends in this sector, that seem optimistic, so I'll hesitantly align with them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 15, 2020, 02:35:04 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 15, 2020, 02:15:02 PM

Masks were to be used, then they shouldn't, then they should per our medical experts.

There was the story out of Stanford early on that mouthwash killed the virus, then it was debunked as a myth, now yesterday a strong push again that mouthwash may kill the virus and be a treatment (limited) for this.

Virus was contagious person to person, then it wasn't (WHO), then it was.

I feel bad for the medical experts because they do not know.  It is also why people are frustrated because they are used to some MacGyver 1 hour solution. In my opinion it is also why people (including politicians) entertain other ideas that may or may not work in the hope of a magical elixir.  The back and forth of what is or isn't effective and the continual changes by experts doesn't help.

Hey, another 'some say, 'both sides' post.    Phew.   I was going into withdrawal.   

The back and forth is due to a couple of things.    From a science perspective, it is because more is being learned about the virus and how to treat it every single day.     As it should be.    So, as more knowledge is gleaned, the message should adjust accordingly.   We should all be very disappointed if, in the face of a new virus, the message had never evolved.    Or, in a phrase near and dear to you, the goalposts have to shift as more becomes known.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 15, 2020, 02:49:28 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 15, 2020, 02:15:02 PM

Masks were to be used, then they shouldn't, then they should per our medical experts.

There was the story out of Stanford early on that mouthwash killed the virus, then it was debunked as a myth, now yesterday a strong push again that mouthwash may kill the virus and be a treatment (limited) for this.

Virus was contagious person to person, then it wasn't (WHO), then it was.

I feel bad for the medical experts because they do not know.  It is also why people are frustrated because they are used to some MacGyver 1 hour solution. In my opinion it is also why people (including politicians) entertain other ideas that may or may not work in the hope of a magical elixir.  The back and forth of what is or isn't effective and the continual changes by experts doesn't help.

Can you please point to the medical expert who suggested that injecting Lysol into the human body would cure COVID-19?

Thanks!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on May 15, 2020, 03:21:18 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 15, 2020, 02:15:02 PM

Masks were to be used, then they shouldn't, then they should per our medical experts.

There was the story out of Stanford early on that mouthwash killed the virus, then it was debunked as a myth, now yesterday a strong push again that mouthwash may kill the virus and be a treatment (limited) for this.

Virus was contagious person to person, then it wasn't (WHO), then it was.

I feel bad for the medical experts because they do not know.  It is also why people are frustrated because they are used to some MacGyver 1 hour solution. In my opinion it is also why people (including politicians) entertain other ideas that may or may not work in the hope of a magical elixir.  The back and forth of what is or isn't effective and the continual changes by experts doesn't help.

https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-spread-not-curbed-by-mouthwashes-hydrogen-peroxide-20200515.html

found it in 30 seconds.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 15, 2020, 06:11:03 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 15, 2020, 02:49:28 PM

Can you please point to the medical expert who suggested that injecting Lysol into the human body would cure COVID-19?

Thanks!

And the medical expert that said masks shouldn't be used.

Sigh. Once again chicos is carpeting bombing Scoop with lies and distortions.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 15, 2020, 06:58:26 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 15, 2020, 02:49:28 PM

Can you please point to the medical expert who suggested that injecting Lysol into the human body would cure COVID-19?

Thanks!

Or UV light?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 15, 2020, 07:09:49 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 15, 2020, 06:58:26 PM

Or UV light?

I drank a 175 of UV Blue Vodka and all I got was a hangover

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 15, 2020, 08:09:45 PM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 15, 2020, 07:09:49 PM

I drank a 175 of UV Blue Vodka and all I got was a hangover

But did you get COVID?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 15, 2020, 08:26:19 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 15, 2020, 08:09:45 PM

But did you get COVID?

Might have preferred it?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 15, 2020, 08:27:19 PM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 15, 2020, 07:09:49 PM

I drank a 175 of UV Blue Vodka and all I got was a hangover

I've had to clean that Nasty blue mess up after a girl in college threw that up in my parents Easter decorations. Can't even smell that stuff without feeling nausea after that

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 15, 2020, 10:50:03 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 15, 2020, 08:09:45 PM

But did you get COVID?

More likely to get hepatitis after a 1.75 of Blue UV than Covid

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 15, 2020, 11:19:32 PM

This is not very good news ...

https://time.com/5837531/sailors-coronavirus-second-time/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=the-brief-pm&utm_&fbclid=IwAR3rNzlgmafYjdK6hVX6TITYs7xSCV0uD9zhcfgETzA-Guq8CjEFb3y-5mc

(WASHINGTON, D.C.) — Five sailors on the aircraft carrier sidelined in Guam due to a COVID-19 outbreak have gotten the virus for the second time and have been taken off the ship, according to the Navy.

The resurgence of the virus in the five sailors on the USS Theodore Roosevelt underscores the befuddling behavior of the highly contagious virus and raises questions about how troops that test positive can be reintegrated into the military, particularly on ships.

All five sailors had previously tested positive and had gone through at least two weeks of isolation. As part of the process, they all had to test negative twice in a row, with the tests separated by at least a day or two before they were allowed to go back to the ship.

Yep. We still have absolutely no idea how many folks who get infected and recover will be immune. It might be a large percentage, or it might be a lot fewer than everybody hopes.

I hate this shyte!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 15, 2020, 11:36:03 PM

Even from one of the most monstrous people on Earth, this is stunning:

“When you test, you have a case. When you test, you find something is wrong with people. If we didn’t do any testing, we would have very few cases."


I'd like to rant or editorialize about this, but I can't find the words.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 16, 2020, 09:49:20 AM

Quote from: Jockey on May 15, 2020, 11:36:03 PM

Even from one of the most monstrous people on Earth, this is stunning:

“When you test, you have a case. When you test, you find something is wrong with people. If we didn’t do any testing, we would have very few cases."


I'd like to rant or editorialize about this, but I can't find the words.

It really is stunning that the True Believers can brush off this kind of statement and still support him, but I have become resigned to the fact that it is true.

It hearkens back to his statement about shooting someone on 5th Avenue and not losing any support. Back then, I thought it was a load of crap, but with the benefit of time, I have come to see that he was right. Nothing he could do would be a bridge too far for the True Believers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 16, 2020, 10:18:27 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 16, 2020, 09:49:20 AM

It really is stunning that the True Believers can brush off this kind of statement and still support him, but I have become resigned to the fact that it is true.

It hearkens back to his statement about shooting someone on 5th Avenue and not losing any support. Back then, I thought it was a load of crap, but with the benefit of time, I have come to see that he was right. Nothing he could do would be a bridge too far for the True Believers.

That was stunning, but nothing compared to what his lawyers argued in court in October. They argued that the president has that right to commit that murder and it would be illegal to prosecute (or even investigate) him for it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on May 16, 2020, 10:24:53 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 16, 2020, 09:49:20 AM

It really is stunning that the True Believers can brush off this kind of statement and still support him, but I have become resigned to the fact that it is true.

Honest question:  did you know what he meant?  Because I'm amazed at the number of people who hear him say things -- admittedly often very inarticulately -- and then latch onto the worst possible interpretation.  But I've become resigned to it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 16, 2020, 10:30:34 AM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on May 16, 2020, 10:24:53 AM

Honest question:  did you know what he meant?  Because I'm amazed at the number of people who hear him say things -- admittedly often very inarticulately -- and then latch onto the worst possible interpretation.  But I've become resigned to it.

I am guilty of that from time to time.   Conversely, I can't imagine a positive interpretation for some of his statements.    I would appreciate the insight on the positive interpretations.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on May 16, 2020, 10:33:13 AM

Quote from: tower912 on May 16, 2020, 10:30:34 AM

I am guilty of that from time to time.   Conversely, I can't imagine a positive interpretation for some of his statements.    I would appreciate the insight on the positive interpretations.

I agree.  Many times, he says stupid things and there are no positive interpretations.  He gives plenty of legitimate ammo for those who want to criticize.  That's one of the reasons I get annoyed.  In the quote above, he was discussing the same thing that has been discussed on this board repeatedly:  using the number of cases to assess how things are going is flawed because the more tests we do, the more cases we identify.  Not a controversial statement.  He said it very poorly, but I think that it's pretty obvious that is what he was talking about.

Edited to add:  I sincerely wish the president was communicating and leading effectively during this crisis.  I don't think he is.  He obviously has many shortcomings.  But I have seen time and time again that his statements are distorted and misrepresented and it becomes very tiresome.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 16, 2020, 10:40:30 AM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on May 16, 2020, 10:33:13 AM

I agree.  Many times, he says stupid things and there are no positive interpretations.  He gives plenty of legitimate ammo for those who want to criticize.  That's one of the reasons I get annoyed.  In the quote above, he was discussing the same thing that has been discussed on this board repeatedly:  using the number of cases to assess how things are going is flawed because the more tests we do, the more cases we identify.  Not a controversial statement.  He said it very poorly, but I think that it's pretty obvious that is what he was talking about.

Edited to add:  I sincerely wish the president was communicating and leading effectively during this crisis.  I don't think he is.  He obviously has many shortcomings.  But I have seen time and time again that his statements are distorted and misrepresented and it becomes very tiresome.

Succinct. Excellently stated.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 16, 2020, 10:42:30 AM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on May 16, 2020, 10:33:13 AM

I agree.  Many times, he says stupid things and there are no positive interpretations.  He gives plenty of legitimate ammo for those who want to criticize.  That's one of the reasons I get annoyed.  In the quote above, he was discussing the same thing that has been discussed on this board repeatedly:  using the number of cases to assess how things are going is flawed because the more tests we do, the more cases we identify.  Not a controversial statement.  He said it very poorly, but I think that it's pretty obvious that is what he was talking about.

But when you couple that there’s a global pandemic going on that should require an all hands on deck response with the fact that the federal government didn’t use anywhere close to every resource they could (and even cut funding to organizations that are very important to the worldwide response), his actions also seem to back up what his words are and not what he *may* have actually meant instead. If he just had worded a statement poorly but acted in ways where he ramped up testing early and often then yeah. But instead he basically threw his hands up and said, “good luck states! You don’t have the capacity we do at the federal level, but we’ll let you take this one!” He (his administration, which all comes back to him in the end) is acting in the way he worded his statement. More tests = bad look for the US = bad look for him.

But the Chicago Cubs/Arizona Cardinals/Illinois living version of Cheeks will tell me it would’ve been handled identically by any politician in an election year as it would’ve been political suicide to handle it any other way. Both sides, I know.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 16, 2020, 10:44:49 AM

Oh, for the good old days when Fox News would explode because President Obama wore a tan suit.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 16, 2020, 10:53:47 AM

Or speculated on the terrorist fist bump.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on May 16, 2020, 11:22:49 AM

It's creating and preying upon some people's fears. Those fearful people resort to tribalism to feel stronger. Often times during tribalism, distance is kept between opposing formed groups and the fear of the unknown is manufactured that they are out to get you, your resources etc...an example would be a soldier that finds it much easier to shoot a red dot on a scope in the distance rather than someone you see up close and spend time with etc...

If some of these people instead spent time outside of their tribe, they would find some similarities and common ground. This is bad for tribal leaders who use and count on fear preying, fight or flight responses to fear, etc...facts, knowledge, individuality can reduce their power.

For some, it doesn't really matter what someone such as Trump says, it's how he says it, sounding authoritative, talking tough.....those other people are out to get you and trick you.

Also often times perceived weaker or disenfranchised groups are easy targets for some tribal leaders because they can be perceived to be less supported.

Repeating the same negative buzz words and rallying cries are ways to gaslight or distract from facts that reflect poorly upon the leader. Attacks are often psychological projection in order to avoid self reflection regarding personal inferiority thoughts. The person feels inferior self hate and that is way too difficult for them to explore. It is much easier to attack, and attack less supported groups where you have your tribal support.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on May 16, 2020, 12:45:24 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 15, 2020, 11:19:32 PM

This is not very good news ...

https://time.com/5837531/sailors-coronavirus-second-time/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=the-brief-pm&utm_&fbclid=IwAR3rNzlgmafYjdK6hVX6TITYs7xSCV0uD9zhcfgETzA-Guq8CjEFb3y-5mc

(WASHINGTON, D.C.) — Five sailors on the aircraft carrier sidelined in Guam due to a COVID-19 outbreak have gotten the virus for the second time and have been taken off the ship, according to the Navy.

The resurgence of the virus in the five sailors on the USS Theodore Roosevelt underscores the befuddling behavior of the highly contagious virus and raises questions about how troops that test positive can be reintegrated into the military, particularly on ships.

All five sailors had previously tested positive and had gone through at least two weeks of isolation. As part of the process, they all had to test negative twice in a row, with the tests separated by at least a day or two before they were allowed to go back to the ship.

Yep. We still have absolutely no idea how many folks who get infected and recover will be immune. It might be a large percentage, or it might be a lot fewer than everybody hopes.

I hate this shyte!

Could it have been a false positive with those 5? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 16, 2020, 12:48:28 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on May 16, 2020, 12:45:24 PM

Could it have been a false positive with those 5?

Or what was happening in Korea.  Sounds almost identical.  In either case so far re-infection hasn’t been the explanation. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 16, 2020, 12:54:01 PM

Extremely unlikely that those sailors tested positive a second time as a result of a second infectious instance. Much more likely to be two false negatives or one false positive. They are likely still shedding detectable viral load but not at a threshold that is infectious

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 16, 2020, 01:57:41 PM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on May 16, 2020, 10:24:53 AM

Honest question:  did you know what he meant?  Because I'm amazed at the number of people who hear him say things -- admittedly often very inarticulately -- and then latch onto the worst possible interpretation.  But I've become resigned to it.

Of course I know what he meant. He meant if we didn’t do any testing there would be no reported cases that he considered positive, even though he might have had tens of thousands of deaths. It’s all about the optics with him.

Do you think I got it wrong? Can you think of any positive way to interpret what he said?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on May 16, 2020, 02:21:09 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 16, 2020, 01:57:41 PM

Of course I know what he meant. He meant if we didn’t do any testing there would be no reported cases that he considered positive, even though he might have had tens of thousands of deaths. It’s all about the optics with him.

Do you think I got it wrong? Can you think of any positive way to interpret what he said?

Yes, I do think you got it wrong.  Strongly.  And I already explained what I think he was very clearly saying.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 16, 2020, 02:22:22 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 16, 2020, 12:54:01 PM

Extremely unlikely that those sailors tested positive a second time as a result of a second infectious instance. Much more likely to be two false negatives or one false positive. They are likely still shedding detectable viral load but not at a threshold that is infectious

Certainly possible, and I hope it's the case.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 16, 2020, 02:40:28 PM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on May 16, 2020, 02:21:09 PM

Yes, I do think you got it wrong.  Strongly.  And I already explained what I think he was very clearly saying.

Wow - I thought you were joking...both with your interpretation, and with the comment that it would be "good" if interpreted that way.

Every epidemiologist on earth agrees that knowing the prevalence of a disease is an absolutely critical metric in combating the disease. Not knowing that would leave us even more blind than we are. We have to test to have any real chance of moving forward.

And putting the good/bad part aside...clear communication is a critical and fundamental skill for anyone in a high-level leadership position. If you can't clearly and consistently get your message across in a way everyone can understand, you are destined to be a failed leader because people will spend more time debating what the hell you meant than about the actual policy ramifications of your position.

------------------

Edited to add:

Below is the reaction to Trump's comments by a columnist in Forbes...considered by the media bias fact checker to be a "right-center" publication:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/05/15/trump-without-doing-covid-19-coronavirus-testing-we-would-have-very-few-cases-here-is-the-reaction/#73480b12518c

So if even relatively conservative publications are interpreting it in the negative way I did, you might want to reconsider the validity of your, ummm, generous interpretation.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on May 16, 2020, 03:01:30 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 16, 2020, 02:40:28 PM

Wow - I thought you were joking...both with your interpretation, and with the comment that it would be "good" if interpreted that way.

Every epidemiologist on earth agrees that knowing the prevalence of a disease is an absolutely critical metric in combating the disease. Not knowing that would leave us even more blind than we are. We have to test to have any real chance of moving forward.

And putting the good/bad part aside...clear communication is a critical and fundamental skill for anyone in a high-level leadership position. If you can't clearly and consistently get your message across in a way everyone can understand, you are destined to be a failed leader because people will spend more time debating what the hell you meant than about the actual policy ramifications of your position.

Nowhere in Trump's quote did he suggest that we should stop or reduce testing. That's kind of the gist of my annoyance.  People are interpreting that comment to mean that he was suggesting we limit testing.  I do not believe that is a fair interpretation of his comment. In fact, I think that his focus these days is actually to test as much as possible because, frankly, he seems strangely obsessed with being the world's leader in testing. 

Also, I agree and have said repeatedly that he is not communicating clearly or leading effectively.  I've never once denied that. It's a problem. But, nothing is gained by misrepresenting and distorting what he does say.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 16, 2020, 03:31:03 PM

Quote from: Jockey on May 16, 2020, 10:44:49 AM

Oh, for the good old days when Fox News would explode because President Obama wore a tan suit.

I've been thinking about this for weeks.  Wondering when they would run a segment, bigger scandal Obama's tan suit or Trump's Coronavirus response and then go into why the suit was unAmerican or something.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on May 16, 2020, 03:49:12 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 16, 2020, 03:31:03 PM

I've been thinking about this for weeks.  Wondering when they would run a segment, bigger scandal Obama's tan suit or Trump's Coronavirus response and then go into why the suit was unAmerican or something.

I've seen this mentioned several times in the last day or two (here and elsewhere).  I have absolutely no recollection of this. Good lord, people are silly.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 16, 2020, 03:51:55 PM

Bigger scandal, Obama’s tan suit or Obamagate?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 16, 2020, 03:57:20 PM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on May 16, 2020, 03:01:30 PM

Nowhere in Trump's quote did he suggest that we should stop or reduce testing. That's kind of the gist of my annoyance.  People are interpreting that comment to mean that he was suggesting we limit testing.  I do not believe that is a fair interpretation of his comment. In fact, I think that his focus these days is actually to test as much as possible because, frankly, he seems strangely obsessed with being the world's leader in testing. 

Also, I agree and have said repeatedly that he is not communicating clearly or leading effectively.  I've never once denied that. It's a problem. But, nothing is gained by misrepresenting and distorting what he does say.

I did not misrepresent or distort anything. I responded to the exact words of his direct quote with the most clear and direct interpretation; the same interpretation that I have seen across the political spectrum. And I never claimed that he said we should stop or reduce testing. I do, however, see his irritation as we increase it. Maybe that means he wants us to stop or reduce testing, but I never claimed that he said that.

You say that others put words into Trump’s  mouth, but now you are putting words into mine. Pot, meet kettle.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 16, 2020, 04:01:56 PM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on May 16, 2020, 03:01:30 PM

Also, I agree and have said repeatedly that he is not communicating clearly or leading effectively.  I've never once denied that. It's a problem. But, nothing is gained by misrepresenting and distorting what he does say.

Just curious: do you agree with my earlier comment that good communication skills are critical to being a good leader?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: StillAWarrior on May 16, 2020, 04:49:37 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 16, 2020, 04:01:56 PM

Just curious: do you agree with my earlier comment that good communication skills are critical to being a good leader?

Absolutely.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 16, 2020, 04:53:39 PM

Infectious disease researcher talking about how some who recover from COVID-19 end up experiencing debilitating symptoms weeks, or even months, later: “I’ve studied 100 diseases. Covid is the strangest one I have seen in my medical career."

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article242781491.html?

Several months and over 4 million reported cases into the global coronavirus pandemic, COVID-19 is still finding new ways to mystify researchers.

The latest puzzle: Why are some coronavirus patients suffering symptoms of the disease months after diagnosis?

Most mild cases are beaten within a two-week period, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention suggest. But some patients, even young ones, are taking much longer to recover, outlets report, and experts aren’t sure why.

“For almost seven weeks I have been through a roller coaster of ill health,” Paul Garner, a professor of infectious diseases at the Liverpool School of Tropical Medicine, wrote in an essay for the British Medical Journal. “Although not hospitalised, it has been frightening and long. The illness ebbs and flows, but never goes away.”

Others have shared similar stories.

Kelsey Meeks, a 36-year-old attorney, told Business Insider that 32 days after testing positive, her most intense symptoms have subsided, but she can’t shake persistent body aches, headaches and nasal congestion.

Meeks was by all accounts in good physical health, and even ran a four-day, 48.6-mile challenge at Disney World back in January.

“I haven’t had a day where I woke up and I thought, ‘Oh, I’m over this,’” she told Business Insider. “I can have a better day and then the next day I can’t walk and talk at the same time.”

Massachusetts resident Kate Porter described an ebbing and flowing “wave” of symptoms, CNBC reported. Porter would feel as if she was improving one day, only to be knocked down the next with low-grade fevers, coughing, chest-tightness, and stomach ailments.

“I woke up drenched in sweat this morning,” she said a month after her diagnosis, CNBC reported. “It literally feels like it will never end.”

Tim Spector, a King’s College London professor, suggests a large number of people are dealing with a “long tail” form of COVID-19 that lingers weeks longer than the average case, he told The Guardian.

“I’ve studied 100 diseases. Covid is the strangest one I have seen in my medical career,” he said.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 16, 2020, 05:09:35 PM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on May 16, 2020, 03:01:30 PM

Also, I agree and have said repeatedly that he is not communicating clearly or leading effectively.  I've never once denied that. It's a problem. But, nothing is gained by misrepresenting and distorting what he does say.

This is where I have issues, SAW. And I don't want this to be an attack on you as i respect what you say.

My question is: Where do you draw the line between not communicating clearly and lying?

Let me give just one example that he has repeated dozens of times (if not more). “When I took over our military, we did not have ammunition. I was told by a top general, maybe the top of them all, ‘Sir, I’m sorry sir, we don’t have ammunition.’"

I say this not as a political argument - because anyone with a brain knows we didn't run out of ammo. But, a leader, any leader,  needs honesty especially in a crisis. It just seems that when people blame those lies on the the Media that reported them for the sole reason of not offending him, something is wrong.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 16, 2020, 05:21:15 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 16, 2020, 04:53:39 PM

Infectious disease researcher talking about how some who recover from COVID-19 end up experiencing debilitating symptoms weeks, or even months, later: “I’ve studied 100 diseases. Covid is the strangest one I have seen in my medical career."

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article242781491.html?

Several months and over 4 million reported cases into the global coronavirus pandemic, COVID-19 is still finding new ways to mystify researchers.

The latest puzzle: Why are some coronavirus patients suffering symptoms of the disease months after diagnosis?

Yep. This is an awfully strange one. If you just look at the basics of the illness, this looks just like a particularly virulent strain of the flu. But things like the Kawasaki-like illness in young kids, strokes in people around 40 years old, or the months-long course in some otherwise healthy individuals, it appears there is something quite unique about this one that docs still don’t have a handle on.

Hopefully they can figure it out soon.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 16, 2020, 05:32:21 PM

Quote from: StillAWarrior on May 16, 2020, 03:01:30 PM

Nowhere in Trump's quote did he suggest that we should stop or reduce testing. That's kind of the gist of my annoyance.  People are interpreting that comment to mean that he was suggesting we limit testing.  I do not believe that is a fair interpretation of his comment. In fact, I think that his focus these days is actually to test as much as possible because, frankly, he seems strangely obsessed with being the world's leader in testing. 

Also, I agree and have said repeatedly that he is not communicating clearly or leading effectively.  I've never once denied that. It's a problem. But, nothing is gained by misrepresenting and distorting what he does say.

Anytime someone makes a statement that can be interpreted in multiple ways, I think it is best to look through their historical statements to get some guidance. Trump has said:

"Testing is unnecessary"
"Testing makes us look bad"

He's said that we don't need more testing, and those calling for it are politically motivated.

And then there is the fact that Kushner was advising Trump to do less testing, because it would help the stock market.

In light of all these, your interpretation of his words, contradicts what the literal meaning, and his history of prior statements.

So in my opinion he doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt here. There are other times, where you are right, and the media portrays his words in the worst light (often the literal meaning).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 16, 2020, 05:43:40 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 16, 2020, 05:21:15 PM

Yep. This is an awfully strange one. If you just look at the basics of the illness, this looks just like a particularly virulent strain of the flu. But things like the Kawasaki-like illness in young kids, strokes in people around 40 years old, or the months-long course in some otherwise healthy individuals, it appears there is something quite unique about this one that docs still don’t have a handle on.

Hopefully they can figure it out soon.

I think it is fairly simple actually. The virus attacks the body through the ACE2 receptor. That is part of the Renin-Angiotensin-Aldosterone System that quite literally regulates everything from blood pressure to inflammation. It also regulates things like stem cell differentiation, sperm production/quality, and metabolism, and many others (including some we don't even know).

The ACE2 receptor also plays a particularly strong role in some metabolic (think obesity), and the inflammation response. For the most part this is centered in the lungs, where the network is known to play a role in ARDS. But there is also a lot of this receptor free-floating in our blood stream, where there are lessor understood roles in global inflammation and metabolism. The result, is that as our body fights this, and as the virus fights us, the whole RAAS system goes haywire. The end result is things like:

Disruptions in clotting pathways
Altered inflammatory responses
Acute Respiratory Distress
Altered renal function
Altered heart function

And, because the this network is regulated differently in men, women, and children, you are going to see these aspects vary depending on sex, and age. The problem, is we do not have a great clinical way to predict who will experience what outcomes, so it appears strange.

That is most likely because we have no clinical way to identify where the infection first gained hold, lungs, eyes, bloodstream. And we don't have the resources to test for genetic variation in the pathway. Essentially in each person the war (immune system vs. infection) may be fought on different battlefields as this receptor is so widely dispersed in our bodies. The doctors (allies of the immune system), don't know where to show up to fight.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 16, 2020, 06:06:32 PM

Quote from: forgetful on May 16, 2020, 05:43:40 PM

I think it is fairly simple actually. The virus attacks the body through the ACE2 receptor. That is part of the Renin-Angiotensin-Aldosterone System that quite literally regulates everything from blood pressure to inflammation. It also regulates things like stem cell differentiation, sperm production/quality, and metabolism, and many others (including some we don't even know).

The ACE2 receptor also plays a particularly strong role in some metabolic (think obesity), and the inflammation response. For the most part this is centered in the lungs, where the network is known to play a role in ARDS. But there is also a lot of this receptor free-floating in our blood stream, where there are lessor understood roles in global inflammation and metabolism. The result, is that as our body fights this, and as the virus fights us, the whole RAAS system goes haywire. The end result is things like:

Disruptions in clotting pathways
Altered inflammatory responses
Acute Respiratory Distress
Altered renal function
Altered heart function

And, because the this network is regulated differently in men, women, and children, you are going to see these aspects vary depending on sex, and age. The problem, is we do not have a great clinical way to predict who will experience what outcomes, so it appears strange.

That is most likely because we have no clinical way to identify where the infection first gained hold, lungs, eyes, bloodstream. And we don't have the resources to test for genetic variation in the pathway. Essentially in each person the war (immune system vs. infection) may be fought on different battlefields as this receptor is so widely dispersed in our bodies. The doctors (allies of the immune system), don't know where to show up to fight.

Thanks. You are clearly better steeped in the basic science part than I am - or maybe my old mind has just forgotten too much from Physiology and Pathology classes - so I appreciate this nice summary.

Guess the biggest issues are highlighted in your final two paragraphs. If we can't predict who is going to get the most debilitating forms, hopefully we can at least do a better job of identifying them earlier to mitigate some of the worst outcomes.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on May 16, 2020, 07:10:18 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 16, 2020, 05:21:15 PM

Yep. This is an awfully strange one. If you just look at the basics of the illness, this looks just like a particularly virulent strain of the flu. But things like the Kawasaki-like illness in young kids, strokes in people around 40 years old, or the months-long course in some otherwise healthy individuals, it appears there is something quite unique about this one that docs still don’t have a handle on.

Hopefully they can figure it out soon.

Simple answer it is man made

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 16, 2020, 07:16:24 PM

Well since victory has been declared in Wisconsin, I guess news like this doesn’t matter anymore, especially since the Wisconsin thread has been locked and nothing covid related will ever happen there again. I guess you guys can just check out of this forum from now on.

Record number of COVID-19 cases reported Saturday in Wisconsin, with 502 infections
https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2020/05/16/wisconsin-coronavirus-record-number-new-cases-reported-dhs/5205710002/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Johnny B on May 16, 2020, 07:43:25 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on May 16, 2020, 07:16:24 PM

Well since victory has been declared in Wisconsin, I guess news like this doesn’t matter anymore, especially since the Wisconsin thread has been locked and nothing covid related will ever happen there again. I guess you guys can just check out of this forum from now on.

Record number of COVID-19 cases reported Saturday in Wisconsin, with 502 infections
https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2020/05/16/wisconsin-coronavirus-record-number-new-cases-reported-dhs/5205710002/

Obviously there will be a spike with most things open. Hope it aint to bad i guess

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on May 16, 2020, 08:18:59 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on May 16, 2020, 07:16:24 PM

Well since victory has been declared in Wisconsin, I guess news like this doesn’t matter anymore, especially since the Wisconsin thread has been locked and nothing covid related will ever happen there again. I guess you guys can just check out of this forum from now on.

Record number of COVID-19 cases reported Saturday in Wisconsin, with 502 infections
https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2020/05/16/wisconsin-coronavirus-record-number-new-cases-reported-dhs/5205710002/

Has nothing to do with the FACT that testing has doubled over the past couple weeks.  Need to look at the percentage of positive

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 16, 2020, 08:44:44 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on May 16, 2020, 08:18:59 PM

Has nothing to do with the FACT that testing has doubled over the past couple weeks.  Need to look at the percentage of positive

That would only matter if they were testing with the exact same criteria. Testing in many places now includes people that are not showing symptoms. Of course positive percentages will go down.

And basically what you are now arguing is that there previously were a bunch of undetected cases before wider testing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 16, 2020, 09:00:33 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on May 16, 2020, 07:16:24 PM

Well since victory has been declared in Wisconsin, I guess news like this doesn’t matter anymore, especially since the Wisconsin thread has been locked and nothing covid related will ever happen there again. I guess you guys can just check out of this forum from now on.

Record number of COVID-19 cases reported Saturday in Wisconsin, with 502 infections
https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2020/05/16/wisconsin-coronavirus-record-number-new-cases-reported-dhs/5205710002/

Wisconsin has been "open" 3 days, these tests were conducted at least a day ago, more likely 2-3 days ago. They have absolutely zero to do with whether Wisconsin is open or not. Wisconsin may be on a sleigh ride to hell post SC decision but it's way too early to know that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 16, 2020, 09:07:11 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 16, 2020, 09:00:33 PM

Wisconsin has been "open" 3 days, these tests were conducted at least a day ago, more likely 2-3 days ago. They have absolutely zero to do with whether Wisconsin is open or not. Wisconsin may be on a sleigh ride to hell post SC decision but it's way too early to know that.

I think i appreciate you more every day.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 16, 2020, 09:09:38 PM

Please note the data relevance of what data you are indexing to. Covid Tracking(primary media tool) is indexing to reporting date whereas the CDC is indexing to date of death.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 16, 2020, 09:20:57 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 16, 2020, 09:00:33 PM

Wisconsin has been "open" 3 days, these tests were conducted at least a day ago, more likely 2-3 days ago. They have absolutely zero to do with whether Wisconsin is open or not. Wisconsin may be on a sleigh ride to hell post SC decision but it's way too early to know that.

Affirmative. We will begin to see the impact by the end of May and into June. One way or another, it will be an interesting summer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 16, 2020, 09:22:00 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 16, 2020, 09:00:33 PM

Wisconsin has been "open" 3 days, these tests were conducted at least a day ago, more likely 2-3 days ago. They have absolutely zero to do with whether Wisconsin is open or not. Wisconsin may be on a sleigh ride to hell post SC decision but it's way too early to know that.

Will try to be more clear. Wisconsin is opening up EVEN though cases were going up when it was closed.
To think “opening everything up will bring down cases” seems a bit optimistic to say the least.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 16, 2020, 09:55:01 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 16, 2020, 09:00:33 PM

Wisconsin has been "open" 3 days, these tests were conducted at least a day ago, more likely 2-3 days ago. They have absolutely zero to do with whether Wisconsin is open or not. Wisconsin may be on a sleigh ride to hell post SC decision but it's way too early to know that.

Well said, eng. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 16, 2020, 09:56:50 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on May 16, 2020, 09:22:00 PM

Will try to be more clear. Wisconsin is opening up EVEN though cases were going up when it was closed.
To think “opening everything up will bring down cases” seems a bit optimistic to say the least.

Not trying to pick on you, but you are proving my point of the general lack of data literacy. A single day increase in which the data is based on when the results came back not when the tests were taken tells us nothing. Literally every outcome is possible from the data point you are quoting.

And the absolute number of cases going up isn't necessarily a problem....if we are testing more and capturing more asymptomatic then our testing number going up isn't an indicator of stuff going out of control...could be but not certain. Remember 5 days ago Milwaukee County opened up testing to everyone at two sites, this is more indicative of that than anything else.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on May 16, 2020, 10:03:06 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on May 16, 2020, 08:44:44 PM

That would only matter if they were testing with the exact same criteria. Testing in many places now includes people that are not showing symptoms. Of course positive percentages will go down.

And basically what you are now arguing is that there previously were a bunch of undetected cases before wider testing.

Not arguing that at all.  We all know there were people with no symptoms with covid.  So those would be undetected cases.  So the idea with testing is to find the true amount of the population that has Covid all symptoms or no symptoms that will slow the spread if we can trace.
The fact remains with 3000 tests or 6000 tests we still are hitting between 6-10% positive each day so the total number of cases will increase.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 16, 2020, 10:07:02 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 16, 2020, 09:56:50 PM

Not trying to pick on you, but you are proving my point of the general lack of data literacy. A single day increase in which the data is based on when the results came back not when the tests were taken tells us nothing. Literally every outcome is possible from the data point you are quoting.

And the absolute number of cases going up isn't necessarily a problem....if we are testing more and capturing more asymptomatic then our testing number going up isn't an indicator of stuff going out of control...could be but not certain. Remember 5 days ago Milwaukee County opened up testing to everyone at two sites, this is more indicative of that than anything else.

This is true. The total cases isn't necessarily important.  But the percent of tests with positive results does seem important.  And in that regard, the percent of positive tests has risen each of the last five days. That has nothing to do with opening the bars, but the timing of the reopening seems less than ideal.

https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/data.htm

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on May 16, 2020, 10:13:52 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 16, 2020, 10:07:02 PM

This is true. The total cases isn't necessarily important.  But the percent of tests with positive results does seem important.  And in that regard, the percent of positive tests has risen each of the last five days. That has nothing to do with opening the bars, but the timing of the reopening seems less than ideal.

https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/data.htm

Correct it has risen the last 4 days but 5 days ago it was at the lowest point in a long time at 3.9% positive.  The past 10 days we have been between 6-8%. so things have been pretty steady with a bit of a jump today hopefully the outlier to the 3.9% we say earlier

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 16, 2020, 10:31:48 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 16, 2020, 10:07:02 PM

This is true. The total cases isn't necessarily important.  But the percent of tests with positive results does seem important.  And in that regard, the percent of positive tests has risen each of the last five days. That has nothing to do with opening the bars, but the timing of the reopening seems less than ideal.

https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/data.htm

Right but we don't know in that date set when the tests were taken....they could have been 1 to 7 days ago(99th percentile). The all could have been take yesterday (really bad), they all could have been take 7 days ago(probably good  but not sure), they could have been taken evenly over the last 7 days (generally positive result). Because we aren't indexing to the date the test was taken you have to use a 3 or 7 day rolling average, and if you do we have a thing uptick but not notable. But at the end of the day it has nothing to do with opening up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 16, 2020, 11:06:32 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on May 16, 2020, 07:10:18 PM

Simple answer it is man made

Your vote for tin-foil hat rather than mask is appreciated.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 16, 2020, 11:21:34 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on May 16, 2020, 10:03:06 PM

Not arguing that at all.  We all know there were people with no symptoms with covid.  So those would be undetected cases.  So the idea with testing is to find the true amount of the population that has Covid all symptoms or no symptoms that will slow the spread if we can trace.
The fact remains with 3000 tests or 6000 tests we still are hitting between 6-10% positive each day so the total number of cases will increase.

Again, if I widen the testing criteria and see that same percentage of positive tests, that isn't a good thing.

Scenario 1 - Test 100 symptomatic people - 6-10 test positive
Scenario 2 - Test 100 people, some of which are symptomatic, some aren't - 6-10 test positive

Why would those two scenarios be considered the same? I would expect that if people are saying it is a downward trend, scenario 2 would actually have a lower percentage.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 17, 2020, 06:58:54 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on May 16, 2020, 11:21:34 PM

Again, if I widen the testing criteria and see that same percentage of positive tests, that isn't a good thing.

Scenario 1 - Test 100 symptomatic people - 6-10 test positive
Scenario 2 - Test 100 people, some of which are symptomatic, some aren't - 6-10 test positive

Why would those two scenarios be considered the same? I would expect that if people are saying it is a downward trend, scenario 2 would actually have a lower percentage.

Is Wisconsin doing random sampling on general population?  In my area our testing has gone up a lot, but they are not testing asymptomatic unless you are a health care worker.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 17, 2020, 07:05:28 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 17, 2020, 06:58:54 AM

Is Wisconsin doing random sampling on general population?  In my area our testing has gone up a lot, but they are not testing asymptomatic unless you are a health care worker.

Depends on the location, but yes.  For instance anyone can get a test right now in Brown County regardless of symptoms.  My understanding is that the CDC advocates for this to help measure community spread.  But I believe it was only for a two week window ending this Friday.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 17, 2020, 07:15:07 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 17, 2020, 07:05:28 AM

Depends on the location, but yes.  For instance anyone can get a test right now in Brown County regardless of symptoms.  My understanding is that the CDC advocates for this to help measure community spread.  But I believe it was only for a two week window ending this Friday.

Thanks.  I should say anyone can get a test regardless of symptoms.  There is no active effort to get asymptomatic people to the testing sites (that I am aware of outside of HC).

Here is the current situation:

 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/cvs-opens-12-new-drive-thru-testing-sites-in-connecticut/2272130/%3famp (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/cvs-opens-12-new-drive-thru-testing-sites-in-connecticut/2272130/%3famp)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 17, 2020, 09:10:15 AM

Since the MLB thread seems mostly to be dealing with team- and player-specific stuff...some interesting COVID safety proposals in the MLB draft manual:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29183345/mlb-safety-proposal-includes-10000-tests-per-week-social-distancing

High-fives, fist bumps and hugs would be prohibited under the plan, as would spitting, tobacco use and chewing sunflower seeds. Fielders would be "encouraged to retreat several steps away from the baserunner'' between pitches. First- and third-base coaches are not to approach baserunners or umpires, and players should not socialize with opponents.

A ball will be thrown away after it is touched by multiple players, and throwing the ball around the infield will be discouraged. Pitchers would have their own set of balls to throw during bullpen sessions, and personnel who rub baseballs with mud for the umpires must use gloves.

--------------

Spitting, tobacco and sunflower seeds prohibited in baseball? Most players burn more calories doing that than they do throwing the ball.

And fielders retreating from baserunners between pitches? If they play with those rules, someone will set a new single-season stolen base record even if they only play 82 games....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on May 17, 2020, 10:11:40 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 17, 2020, 09:10:15 AM

Since the MLB thread seems mostly to be dealing with team- and player-specific stuff...some interesting COVID safety proposals in the MLB draft manual:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29183345/mlb-safety-proposal-includes-10000-tests-per-week-social-distancing


High-fives, fist bumps and hugs would be prohibited under the plan, as would spitting, tobacco use and chewing sunflower seeds. Fielders would be "encouraged to retreat several steps away from the baserunner'' between pitches. First- and third-base coaches are not to approach baserunners or umpires, and players should not socialize with opponents.

A ball will be thrown away after it is touched by multiple players, and throwing the ball around the infield will be discouraged. Pitchers would have their own set of balls to throw during bullpen sessions, and personnel who rub baseballs with mud for the umpires must use gloves.

--------------

Spitting, tobacco and sunflower seeds prohibited in baseball? Most players burn more calories doing that than they do throwing the ball.

And fielders retreating from baserunners between pitches? If they play with those rules, someone will set a new single-season stolen base record even if they only play 82 games....

A lot of these restrictions seem kind of over the top or utterly useless.

Base coaches aren't allowed to approach runners?  They interact everyday...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on May 17, 2020, 10:58:03 AM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on May 17, 2020, 10:11:40 AM

A lot of these restrictions seem kind of over the top or utterly useless.

Base coaches aren't allowed to approach runners?  They interact everyday...

I get the spirit of some of these restricitions but they seem so all over the place.

Watching the Bundesliga yesterday and today, players aren’t allowed to touch each other in celebration, other than forearm bumps...yet there is constantly jostling and battling for a position on a set piece will bring 1000x more contact than a quick embrace or whatever after a goal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 17, 2020, 11:09:05 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on May 17, 2020, 10:58:03 AM

I get the spirit of some of these restricitions but they seem so all over the place.

Watching the Bundesliga yesterday and today, players aren’t allowed to touch each other in celebration, other than forearm bumps...yet there is constantly jostling and battling for a position on a set piece will bring 1000x more contact than a quick embrace or whatever after a goal.

I was wondering why the muted celebrations.  Didn’t realize it was a rule.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 17, 2020, 11:19:42 AM

The echoing is going to take some getting used to.   

Without the fans, will there be as much flopping?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on May 17, 2020, 01:50:17 PM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on May 17, 2020, 10:11:40 AM

A lot of these restrictions seem kind of over the top or utterly useless.

Base coaches aren't allowed to approach runners?  They interact everyday...

I do not get the restrictions at all.  The 30 second conversation they have on the bases I am sure is shorter than any conversation that goes on in between innings.

Not a chance I could play a game without spitting.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on May 17, 2020, 03:55:04 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 17, 2020, 06:58:54 AM

Is Wisconsin doing random sampling on general population?  In my area our testing has gone up a lot, but they are not testing asymptomatic unless you are a health care worker.

there are 3 locations in southeastern wisconsin where you can voluntarily get tested regardless if you are symptomatic, previously symptomatic or not.

waukesha expo center next to crites field, burlington, lake geneva, a couple each in racine and kenosha

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on May 17, 2020, 04:00:34 PM

 i don't know if this has been discussed somewhere previously, but colorado just adjusted their death numbers by 25%.  no deaths are ok, but i'd rather they adjusted down than up.  unfortunately, these people still did die, but just not due to COVID-19.  the overall death numbers have been highly inaccurate on the national level as well.  i hope this is being widely reported, because there are many people who are (no pun) scared to death to go outdoors much more than their own yards

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 17, 2020, 04:16:33 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on May 17, 2020, 04:00:34 PM

i don't know if this has been discussed somewhere previously, but colorado just adjusted their death numbers by 25%.  no deaths are ok, but i'd rather they adjusted down than up.  unfortunately, these people still did die, but just not due to COVID-19.  the overall death numbers have been highly inaccurate on the national level as well.  i hope this is being widely reported, because there are many people who are (no pun) scared to death to go outdoors much more than their own yards

Yep.  It's been talked about.  They've been under-reported.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 17, 2020, 04:24:42 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on May 17, 2020, 04:00:34 PM

i don't know if this has been discussed somewhere previously, but colorado just adjusted their death numbers by 25%.  no deaths are ok, but i'd rather they adjusted down than up.  unfortunately, these people still did die, but just not due to COVID-19.  the overall death numbers have been highly inaccurate on the national level as well.  i hope this is being widely reported, because there are many people who are (no pun) scared to death to go outdoors much more than their own yards

If another country did what Colorado just did. Our leadership would be attacking them for manipulating their numbers and lying to the world.

We are undercounting, for political reasons, this is exactly what we have criticized other nations for.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 17, 2020, 04:36:17 PM

Quote from: forgetful on May 17, 2020, 04:24:42 PM

If another country did what Colorado just did. Our leadership would be attacking them for manipulating their numbers and lying to the world.

We are undercounting, for political reasons, this is exactly what we have criticized other nations for.

Do you have proof of this? 1. That we are undercounting and 2. That it is being politically orchestrated? I have little doubt that on the whole we are undercounting but for you to ascribe it to some sort of intentional national effort is.....an aggressive statement. I'd like to see the proof

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 17, 2020, 04:53:46 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on May 17, 2020, 04:00:34 PM

 i don't know if this has been discussed somewhere previously, but colorado just adjusted their death numbers by 25%.  no deaths are ok, but i'd rather they adjusted down than up.  unfortunately, these people still did die, but just not due to COVID-19.  the overall death numbers have been highly inaccurate on the national level as well.  i hope this is being widely reported, because there are many people who are (no pun) scared to death to go outdoors much more than their own yards

Regrettably, this has become so politicized by both sides that we may never know the real numbers even in our country. The only "good" news is that any inflated numbers from states with more liberal leaders will probably cancel out (or nearly cancel out) any deflated numbers from states with conservative leaders. Even this news is cold comfort, though, as epidemiologists need to know both the "how many" and the "where" to combat a pandemic effectively.

I still think Trump had one chance - back in late January or early February - to seize public opinion on COVID in bold, Bush-like way. Just as a reminder, below is W's first address on 9/11. Note that he only uses "I" a couple of times, never refers to himself in the third person, sincerely expresses condolences to those directly affected, thanks the first responders who were risking their lives to save others, and mostly uses terms like "we," "the United States" or "the American people" when he talks about things to be done going forward.

Per Gallup, Bush's public approval went from 51% to 90% within two weeks, and stayed above 70% for nearly a year. In other words, plenty of people who had never supported Bush were moved by his leadership. By contrast, Trump's handling of this - describe it however you want - has left his numbers exactly where they were in late January to early February - they were at 49% then, and stand at 49% as of the May 1-13 poll. In short, Bush transcended politics, but Trump hasn't been able to do that. IMHO - if Trump had early and consistently addressed this in an honest, proactive way, and communicated a message of unity, empathy, thankfulness and selflessness like Bush was able to do, he too could have transcended politics...for everyone's gain.

Bush speech:

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4507634/president-bush-september-11-terrorist-attacks

Bush approval ratings:

https://news.gallup.com/poll/116500/presidential-approval-ratings-george-bush.aspx

Trump approval ratings:

https://news.gallup.com/poll/203198/presidential-approval-ratings-donald-trump.aspx

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 17, 2020, 05:08:07 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on May 17, 2020, 04:00:34 PM

i don't know if this has been discussed somewhere previously, but colorado just adjusted their death numbers by 25%.  no deaths are ok, but i'd rather they adjusted down than up.  unfortunately, these people still did die, but just not due to COVID-19.  the overall death numbers have been highly inaccurate on the national level as well.  i hope this is being widely reported, because there are many people who are (no pun) scared to death to go outdoors much more than their own yards

Can you provide the answers to my questions, please?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 17, 2020, 05:21:41 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 17, 2020, 04:36:17 PM

Do you have proof of this? 1. That we are undercounting and 2. That it is being politically orchestrated? I have little doubt that on the whole we are undercounting but for you to ascribe it to some sort of intentional national effort is.....an aggressive statement. I'd like to see the proof

C'mon eng, you're not new here, you know by now that rocket is never willing or able to backup the latest talking point he regurgitates.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on May 17, 2020, 05:36:54 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on May 17, 2020, 04:00:34 PM

he overall death numbers have been highly inaccurate on the national level as well.  i hope this is being widely reported, because there are many people who are (no pun) scared to death to go outdoors much more than their own yards

Seems like your assertion will be very easy to prove.  What were the overall deaths recorded in March and April of 2019 versus 2020?  If you are correct,  we would see the total deaths increase year over year to be markedly less than deaths attributed to COVID.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 17, 2020, 05:37:30 PM

If only there were some sort of umbrella organization that could establish reporting standards for all the states so that we could get a clear understanding of the death toll.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 17, 2020, 05:44:46 PM

Well, if you have a nationwide standard for reporting and the numbers go up, then you have higher numbers.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 17, 2020, 05:49:28 PM

Quote from: tower912 on May 17, 2020, 05:44:46 PM

Well, if you have a nationwide standard for reporting and the numbers go up, then you have higher numbers.

Ugh.  If it wasn’t for testing, we wouldn’t have any cases.  Thanks, Obama

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on May 17, 2020, 06:37:24 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on May 17, 2020, 05:08:07 PM

Can you provide the answers to my questions, please?

https://coloradosun.com/2020/05/15/colorado-coronavirus-death-certificate/


 and smith, you can go suck it!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 17, 2020, 07:00:45 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on May 17, 2020, 06:37:24 PM

https://coloradosun.com/2020/05/15/colorado-coronavirus-death-certificate/


 and smith, you can go suck it!!

From the article. 

“ Dr. Eric France, CDPHE’s chief medical officer, said the state’s surveillance-system reporting is in line with federal guidance and matches how other states are also reporting deaths, allowing for a quick apples-to-apples comparison across states. Death certificate data also gets reported to the federal government, but it can take weeks or months for those numbers to trickle in. Having uniform surveillance definitions across states is vital for tracking the spread of the virus and allocating federal resources, France said.”

So they are using guidance provided by the federal government. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 17, 2020, 07:01:26 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 17, 2020, 07:00:45 PM

From the article. 

“ Dr. Eric France, CDPHE’s chief medical officer, said the state’s surveillance-system reporting is in line with federal guidance and matches how other states are also reporting deaths, allowing for a quick apples-to-apples comparison across states. Death certificate data also gets reported to the federal government, but it can take weeks or months for those numbers to trickle in. Having uniform surveillance definitions across states is vital for tracking the spread of the virus and allocating federal resources, France said.”

So they are using guidance provided by the federal government.

A lesson on the importance of reading past the headline to the entire article.

Go figure....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 17, 2020, 07:18:42 PM

Lol

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 17, 2020, 07:23:25 PM

So it looks like currently the death numbers are lagging by 10 days, meaning that the numbers reported this week were people infected 4-5 weeks ago.

So for us to read anything into the number of deaths as a reflection of the reopening we're looking at something 45 days from now (a week to show symptoms, a week to go to the hospital, 3 weeks to of hospitalization, then 10 days for the data to show up post death).

So bottom line, no one should be talking about the death rate reflecting the success or failure of opening up until late June.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 17, 2020, 07:38:25 PM

Eng I totally agree.  Our state has a variety of metrics but the hospitalization rate is one that seems smart to track. 

I believe we all have to get to a much higher testing rate with asymptomatic/random rotation to truly trust the testing data as a leading metric. 

If you hit a peak/out of control period like we did death rate mattered to know if we were making progress but even that was crude and lagging. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 17, 2020, 07:40:07 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 17, 2020, 07:23:25 PM

So it looks like currently the death numbers are lagging by 10 days, meaning that the numbers reported this week were people infected 4-5 weeks ago.

So for us to read anything into the number of deaths as a reflection of the reopening we're looking at something 45 days from now (a week to show symptoms, a week to go to the hospital, 3 weeks to of hospitalization, then 10 days for the data to show up post death).

So bottom line, no one should be talking about the death rate reflecting the success or failure of opening up until late June.

Once again...affirmative.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 17, 2020, 07:41:19 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 17, 2020, 04:36:17 PM

Do you have proof of this? 1. That we are undercounting and 2. That it is being politically orchestrated? I have little doubt that on the whole we are undercounting but for you to ascribe it to some sort of intentional national effort is.....an aggressive statement. I'd like to see the proof

I guess it depends on what you call proof.

1. There is a general scientific consensus that we have substantially more excess deaths than can be explained via current coronavirus counts and all normal death rates. That leads to a scientific consensus of there being 10's of thousands more deaths than we have counted. This in part is due to a lack of testing available.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html

2. Our president, and most of those on the right side of the political spectrum have been railing about we are counting too many deaths. There are reports that Jared was advising Trump that having more testing and higher death counts would hurt the economy and advised that less testing may remedy that.

https://www.salon.com/2020/05/15/trump-wanted-less-testing-after-kushner-worried-more-positive-results-would-spook-market-report/

https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-coronavirus-response-keep-stock-market-up-economy-2020-5

2b. Some states have also took hold of the message and alter their reporting.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/29/politics/florida-coronavirus-death-figures-withheld/index.html

***Now the above is as much evidence we have of other nations fudging numbers for political/economic reasons. In some regards the Trump/Kushner news is far more evidence than we have of other nations. My point was that if we are to criticize them, then we need to hold the same scrutiny on ourself. I actually have defended other nations, if you want to go through the threads, because I realize that a lot will be missed because of this being unprecedented and difficult to keep up with in real time.

But the caveat to that is the rest of the world has been adding more deaths, often suspected, with no tests, because they are trying to be more accurate. Colorado is removing deaths, even though the real count is likely even higher than the published one. And if you don't think it was based on politics, you are acting out of character, I find you to be one of the more rational individuals on here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 17, 2020, 07:43:11 PM

Coronavirus death toll in US likely worse than numbers say

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/coronavirus-death-toll-us-worse-numbers/story?id=70018321

"There is still no formal uniform platform for reporting coronavirus-related deaths in the US,” Glatter said. “Along with a lack of test kits or even rapid antigen identification kits, the reality is that many states have been unable to categorize deaths as COVID vs. non-COVID.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 17, 2020, 07:50:26 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on May 17, 2020, 06:37:24 PM

https://coloradosun.com/2020/05/15/colorado-coronavirus-death-certificate/


 and smith, you can go suck it!!

I'm asking about these questions:

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=60387.msg1242701#msg1242701

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 17, 2020, 07:55:35 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on May 17, 2020, 06:37:24 PM

https://coloradosun.com/2020/05/15/colorado-coronavirus-death-certificate/


 and smith, you can go suck it!!

Sure thing, right after you provide proof for your unhinged rants.  You can start with these:

Quote from: jesmu84 on May 15, 2020, 10:30:29 AM

Can you link to the studies (not anecdotal stories or singular cases) you found that show success?

Also, there is no way any doctor has been prescribing this "for years" for covid-19?

What were the reasons CVS refused to fill? Is there a reliable source that states the federal government told the CVS pharmacists to not fill?

Can you provide examples of doctors getting sanctioned for saying the word hydroxychloroquine?

Can you provide links that demonstrate significantly higher numbers of people dying of other conditions that are being ignored vs expected numbers in a non-pandemic situation?

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 18, 2020, 07:30:22 PM

Still waiting for you to tell us which doctors are breaking their oaths. Or which patients aren't being cared for that have urgent or emergent conditions

Quote from: jesmu84 on April 15, 2020, 06:51:39 PM

Please, for the love of God, stop this conspiracy theory madness.

"Sources"? GTFO.

Show me scientific proof/evidence. Generally, the scientists involved with research behind this disease do not believe any of this crap.

Exhibit A: https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/03/17/covid-19-coronavirus-did-not-come-from-a-lab-study-shows-natural-origins/#4a1034723728

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 17, 2020, 09:25:59 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on May 17, 2020, 04:00:34 PM

unfortunately, these people still did die, but just not due to COVID-19.

Thought you were a dentist, not a medical examiner.

Most epidemiologists and infectious disease experts believe that the number of deaths has been under-reported by a considerable margin.

But hey, if an anonymous guy on the interwebs says otherwise ... and then gives us a link to an article that doesn't come close to proving what he was claiming ... well then, I sit corrected.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 18, 2020, 07:45:27 AM

I am heartened by the patient, pragmatic leadership being shown by Charlotte-area religious clergy in the wake of an NC judge's ruling that our governor didn't have the right to put limitations on church services during the pandemic.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/coronavirus/article242797901.html?

Worshipers across the state of North Carolina have been granted progressively more freedom to attend religious gatherings over the past couple of weeks, first thanks to Phase One of the state’s COVID-19 reopening plan and this weekend courtesy of a federal judge’s order.

But more than 75 Charlotte-area clergy members and faith leaders have joined together to deliver a message regarding getting back to the business of worshiping together in large groups again: Not so fast.

“We will approach the complicated process of regathering in our temples, mosques, sanctuaries and meeting halls with abundant caution and intention,” said the statement, which was addressed to “Our Communities and Neighbors.”

“Respectfully, these decisions may not align with the guidelines offered by government officials. We share the belief that all people are created in the image of God. It is the health, safety, and well-being of our communities and neighbors that motivate us towards making decisions that will care for and protect one another.”

The statement, released Friday morning, was signed by leaders of some of the city’s largest religious institutions, including Claude Alexander, senior pastor at The Park Church; Joe Clifford, senior pastor at Myers Park Presbyterian; and James Howell, senior pastor at Myers Park United Methodist Church.

The effort was spearheaded by Rev. Lori Archer Raible of Selwyn Avenue Presbyterian Church and Rabbi Asher Knight of Temple Beth El.

The goal? To get congregants to understand that how and when they reopen will be based on factors that are independent of political influence — and why they believe that’s the wisest course of action.

“It’s not a partisan statement,” Raible said. “It’s not a political statement. It’s a statement about our concern for the well-being of our community.”

“There’s a push towards the possibility of reopening,” Knight added. “But just because we can return doesn’t mean that we all should.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on May 18, 2020, 08:12:45 AM

Long way to go, but some decent news.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/18/moderna-reports-positive-data-on-early-stage-coronavirus-vaccine-trial.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 18, 2020, 08:49:49 AM

Quote from: Retire0 on May 18, 2020, 08:12:45 AM

Long way to go, but some decent news.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/18/moderna-reports-positive-data-on-early-stage-coronavirus-vaccine-trial.html

I personally have no problem with you putting this here (and I'm sure everybody is happy I say so), but FYI there is an entire thread devoted to treatments.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on May 18, 2020, 09:02:30 AM

Quote from: MU82 on May 18, 2020, 08:49:49 AM

I personally have no problem with you putting this here (and I'm sure everybody is happy I say so), but FYI there is an entire thread devoted to treatments.

Yeah, I rushed and didn’t complete my work to the best of my ability.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 18, 2020, 11:21:27 AM

Do you suppose the soaking midwest rains and Tropical Storm Arthur are just God's way of saying get your butts back inside?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 18, 2020, 11:24:57 AM

Quote from: tower912 on May 18, 2020, 11:21:27 AM

Do you suppose the soaking midwest rains and Tropical Storm Arthur are just God's way of saying get your butts back inside?

Hah id gladly become religious again if that's the case.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on May 18, 2020, 11:51:37 AM

I am trying to ask an honest question, so please don't flame me.  I haven't seen it asked anywhere on this board.


Given that the federal government is providing special funds to care for Covid-19 patients, wouldn't that incentivize healthcare providers to rule an illness or death as Covid-related if the opportunity presents itself, especially if that patient is uninsured?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 18, 2020, 12:08:19 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on May 18, 2020, 11:51:37 AM

I am trying to ask an honest question, so please don't flame me.  I haven't seen it asked anywhere on this board.


Given that the federal government is providing special funds to care for Covid-19 patients, wouldn't that incentivize healthcare providers to rule an illness or death as Covid-related if the opportunity presents itself, especially if that patient is uninsured?

The thing is. That compensation is for hospital treatment. So if they are treating a patient for a significant amount of time, they would have tested them. And have a positive test.

So unless it is a gun shot wound, or car accident, or something else unrelated, they would be accurately being listed as a COVID patient.

An example of where you can see some oddities. A friends kid (college soccer player), was playing soccer with friends. He ended up breaking his leg and was taken to the hospital. For whatever reason they ran a COVID test in the ER. He tested positive, so they ran a chest x-ray. Pneumonia, with ground glass opacities. Admitted as a COVID patient. Was up and running and playing soccer an hour earlier with friends.

Now on face value, one might say, "They are listing soccer accidents and broken legs as COVID," well know, they are listing a pneumonia case as COVID, they would have just been out still spreading this if they didn't break their leg. That's why this disease is kind of weird.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 18, 2020, 01:04:03 PM

Correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it hospitals are getting paid more for the additional expense of COVID-positive cases, however there is no additional payment for a deceased person based on a COVID diagnosis. In other words, there is no financial incentive to list the cause of death as COVID-19, correct?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 18, 2020, 01:10:33 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on May 18, 2020, 11:51:37 AM

I am trying to ask an honest question, so please don't flame me.  I haven't seen it asked anywhere on this board.


Given that the federal government is providing special funds to care for Covid-19 patients, wouldn't that incentivize healthcare providers to rule an illness or death as Covid-related if the opportunity presents itself, especially if that patient is uninsured?

It is a possibility...but the False Claims Act provides significant disincentives, like up to 3x the damages, plus an additional $5-10K for each false claim, exclusion from participation in federal programs (like Medicare) and a whole bunch of headaches for the legal department.

And whistleblowers can report possible violations and share in a significant portion of the damages, so it can be pretty difficult even for unethical providers to hide truly false submissions.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 18, 2020, 01:30:29 PM

CDC warns of possible measles outbreak as vaccinations for children fall during coronavirus pandemic

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/18/coronavirus-cdc-warns-of-possible-measles-outbreak-as-vaccinations-for-children-fall-during-pandemic.html

Routine vaccinations for young children in the United States fell during the first half of this year as more Americans skipped routine doctor visits and stayed home due to the coronavirus pandemic, according to a report published Monday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The CDC warned that measles outbreaks could result from fewer vaccinations.
...

For the 16-month age group, coverage with all recommended vaccines declined, with measles-containing vaccination coverage decreasing from 76.1% in May 2019 to 70.9% in May 2020, the agency said. The report also found that up-to-date vaccination coverage was lower for children enrolled in Medicaid, the federal government’s health insurance program for the poor, than for those who were not enrolled.

“The observed declines in vaccination coverage might leave young children and communities vulnerable to vaccine-preventable diseases such as measles,” the CDC wrote in its findings. “If measles vaccination coverage of 90%–95% (the level needed to establish herd immunity) is not achieved, measles outbreaks can occur.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 18, 2020, 01:38:45 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on May 18, 2020, 01:04:03 PM

Correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it hospitals are getting paid more for the additional expense of COVID-positive cases, however there is no additional payment for a deceased person based on a COVID diagnosis. In other words, there is no financial incentive to list the cause of death as COVID-19, correct?

That is correct.

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 18, 2020, 01:10:33 PM

It is a possibility...but the False Claims Act provides significant disincentives, like up to 3x the damages, plus an additional $5-10K for each false claim, exclusion from participation in federal programs (like Medicare) and a whole bunch of headaches for the legal department.

And whistleblowers can report possible violations and share in a significant portion of the damages, so it can be pretty difficult even for unethical providers to hide truly false submissions.

Very excellent point.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on May 18, 2020, 02:02:11 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 18, 2020, 01:10:33 PM

It is a possibility...but the False Claims Act provides significant disincentives, like up to 3x the damages, plus an additional $5-10K for each false claim, exclusion from participation in federal programs (like Medicare) and a whole bunch of headaches for the legal department.

And whistleblowers can report possible violations and share in a significant portion of the damages, so it can be pretty difficult even for unethical providers to hide truly false submissions.

But if you don't test them, and they just "thought" it was Covid, how could you prove intent? 


I am not necessarily talking about outright fraud; I am talking about giving the benefit of the doubt to the diagnosis that pays more.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 18, 2020, 02:14:14 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on May 18, 2020, 02:02:11 PM

But if you don't test them, and they just "thought" it was Covid, how could you prove intent? 

I am not necessarily talking about outright fraud; I am talking about giving the benefit of the doubt to the diagnosis that pays more.

FCA violations don't require fraudulent intent; they just require knowing or reckless disregard for the accuracy of the claim. That requires providers to stay up to date on what CMS has said regarding how to submit claims.

Still, you are correct - if a provider who understands the law bills a '50-50 case' as COVID, it would be difficult for the government to prove it was a false claim.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 18, 2020, 03:40:02 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 18, 2020, 02:14:14 PM

FCA violations don't require fraudulent intent; they just require knowing or reckless disregard for the accuracy of the claim. That requires providers to stay up to date on what CMS has said regarding how to submit claims.

Still, you are correct - if a provider who understands the law bills a '50-50 case' as COVID, it would be difficult for the government to prove it was a false claim.

So the answer to Chick’s question is a qualified “yes”.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 18, 2020, 03:58:36 PM

I don't it's with malice of foresight but yes the hospitals may be getting "overpaid" for Covid patience. Please note I'm not saying what is going on shouldn't be, simply reporting the facts as I know them. A bit of a long story first.

My wife is an outpatient PT in a hospital and during the pandemic has had to work regular shifts as well as in-patient for non-Covid folks and as a PPE observer(get the nurses/docs dressed and undressed as the come in and out of the Covid rooms). 3 weeks ago she was working a weekend in patient shift (basically go to the admitted patients rooms try to get them to walk, use the bathroom, etc) and had a patient that had just come in from a nurse home, one they've had a number of times because hes all f'd up but nothing to do with Covid symptoms. She went in, did her treatment stuff then left. Then the following Tuesday she was working Covid ICU and saw the patient in there from Saturday. Turns out he had tested positive for Covid but was asymptomatic, and this do had all the comorbids you could imagine but was asymptomatic. He died 48 hours later, but was listed as a Covid death.

That kind of story shouldn't happen anymore as there is now plenty of testing that anyone admitted gets tested, but the hospital is taking in a lot of nursing home patients that in ordinary times they would turn away. They are Covid postive for the most part, but a fair number are asymptomatic(at least 50%) as well. So those patients are being charged out as Covid without necessarily getting the full gamut of treatment(though they are taking up ICU beds).

Bottom line, I dont think anything nefarious is going on but I could see why there is concern or where conspiracy theories originate

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on May 18, 2020, 04:12:23 PM

Seems like people intrigued about incorrectly identified COVID cases (fraud or not).  Seems like it isn't that complex as per an earlier post I made.

Take the total US deaths in March-April-May (when it finishes) for 2019.  Take the same number for 2020.  Chances are the increase in deaths should be pretty close to what COVID deaths are reported.  Then you probably can take that additional death number and divide it by approx 1.8% (death rate) and that is how many cases we probably really had.

I would be shocked if calculated numbers will not be higher than the reported ones.  Chances are we are both under-reporting deaths and cases.  Unless someone can explain why the numbers of deaths would increase from 2019 to 2020 (other than some population growth perhaps?) this seems like a reasonable way to verify the numbers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 18, 2020, 04:16:12 PM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on May 18, 2020, 04:12:23 PM

Seems like people intrigued about incorrectly identified COVID cases (fraud or not).  Seems like it isn't that complex as per an earlier post I made.

Take the total US deaths in March-April-May (when it finishes) for 2019.  Take the same number for 2020.  Chances are the increase in deaths should be pretty close to what COVID deaths are reported.  Then you probably can take that additional death number and divide it by approx 1.8% (death rate) and that is how many cases we probably really had.

I would be shocked if calculated numbers will not be higher than the reported ones.  Chances are we are both under-reporting deaths and cases.  Unless someone can explain why the numbers of deaths would increase from 2019 to 2020 (other than some population growth perhaps?) this seems like a reasonable way to verify the numbers.

Dano - there are a ton of reporting on this -- including WSJ and NY Times.  It found what you hypothesized. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on May 18, 2020, 04:47:40 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 18, 2020, 03:58:36 PM

(1) My wife is an outpatient PT in a hospital and during the pandemic has had to work regular shifts as well as in-patient for non-Covid folks and as a PPE observer(get the nurses/docs dressed and undressed as the come in and out of the Covid rooms). 3 weeks ago she was working a weekend in patient shift (basically go to the admitted patients rooms try to get them to walk, use the bathroom, etc) and had a patient that had just come in from a nurse home, one they've had a number of times because hes all f'd up but nothing to do with Covid symptoms. She went in, did her treatment stuff then left. Then the following Tuesday she was working Covid ICU and saw the patient in there from Saturday. Turns out he had tested positive for Covid but was asymptomatic, and this do had all the comorbids you could imagine but was asymptomatic. He died 48 hours later, but was listed as a Covid death.

(2) That kind of story shouldn't happen anymore as there is now plenty of testing that anyone admitted gets tested, but the hospital is taking in a lot of nursing home patients that in ordinary times they would turn away. They are Covid postive for the most part, but a fair number are asymptomatic(at least 50%) as well. So those patients are being charged out as Covid without necessarily getting the full gamut of treatment(though they are taking up ICU beds).

What I marked as (1) and (2) above for easy reference are very different cases, with very different purposes though, right? In (1) listing that as a covid death may throw off the statistics, but there is no financial incentive to doing so if, as TSmith said below, hospitals aren't being reimbursed at higher rates for covid deaths post mortem. 

From a billing standpoint, however, asymptomatic cases should be reimbursed at higher rates because they require the same precautions, PPE, etc., as symptomatic cases, correct?  So if there is a standard reimbursement bump for covid cases, it shouldn't really matter if they are symptomatic.  The bump isn't for the amount of care required, because medication, respirators, etc., are all coded and reimbursed on their previously established schedules anyway. So that would already be accounted for.  The bump is for the strain on the hospital to prevent spread?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 18, 2020, 04:53:45 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 17, 2020, 05:37:30 PM

If only there were some sort of umbrella organization that could establish reporting standards for all the states so that we could get a clear understanding of the death toll.

We have federal standards for other areas not followed either.  Why will states do this in this case? 

Ultimately it will come down to individual hospital and their local county mechanism for cause of death which may or may not be adhered too, no different than today’s federal standards in anything from the EPA, to how tight to torque a nut on a wing assembly by the FAA by some mechanic for Delta.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 18, 2020, 04:54:11 PM

Ah, yes, Georgia...

https://twitter.com/Fahrenthold/status/1262029906512404480

"The state of Georgia made it look like its covid cases were going down ***by putting the dates out of order on its chart*** May 5 was followed by April 25, then back to May again, whatever made it look like a downslope."

https://news.yahoo.com/georgias-coronavirus-numbers-made-reopening-183733274.html

"Georgia’s flattening curve defied all scientific logic. Pandemics don’t end because the economy is suffering and we want them to.

And yet data don't lie. Or do they?

Thanks to the Atlanta Journal Constitution, we now know things did indeed look too good to be true. Georgia’s coronavirus numbers looked so rosy because officials misrepresented the data in such a way it's difficult to believe it wasn't done on purpose."

"I have a hard time understanding how this happens without it being deliberate," microbiology and molecular genetics PhD and state Rep. Jasmine Clark told the Journal Constitution. "Literally nowhere ever in any type of statistics would that be acceptable."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 18, 2020, 04:57:30 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on May 17, 2020, 06:37:24 PM

https://coloradosun.com/2020/05/15/colorado-coronavirus-death-certificate/


 and smith, you can go suck it!!

Not sure what your point is.  Colorado dropped their death rate by more than a third because of the overstated numbers.  In some case overstated and in some cases understated. 

The idea that the federal govt or state gov’t can count accurately is a wish.  There is a reason why the term GOOD ENOUGH FOR GOVERNMENT WORK exists.  They have never been very good at counting people (legal and illegal) money, fraudsters, dead voters, alive voters, the debt, or anything else. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 18, 2020, 05:22:14 PM

Quote from: MUBurrow on May 18, 2020, 04:47:40 PM

What I marked as (1) and (2) above for easy reference are very different cases, with very different purposes though, right? In (1) listing that as a covid death may throw off the statistics, but there is no financial incentive to doing so if, as TSmith said below, hospitals aren't being reimbursed at higher rates for covid deaths post mortem. 

From a billing standpoint, however, asymptomatic cases should be reimbursed at higher rates because they require the same precautions, PPE, etc., as symptomatic cases, correct?  So if there is a standard reimbursement bump for covid cases, it shouldn't really matter if they are symptomatic.  The bump isn't for the amount of care required, because medication, respirators, etc., are all coded and reimbursed on their previously established schedules anyway. So that would already be accounted for.  The bump is for the strain on the hospital to prevent spread?

Seems a reasonable conclusion, I didn't really take into account that the individual procedures would have stand alone coding.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 18, 2020, 05:57:39 PM

More doctor views banned by Youtube.  This time epidemiologist is banned.  Early we were told to listen to doctors, then we were told not any old doctors but epidemiologists.  Now we are told only some epidemiologists can be heard.

Have people not learned their history for examples when conventional wisdom called the minority group crazy and they turned out right?

What is with YouTube deciding who is right or wrong here?  Maddening and the gov’t should regulate these digital behemoths. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 18, 2020, 06:05:57 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 18, 2020, 05:57:39 PM

More doctor views banned by Youtube.  This time epidemiologist is banned.  Early we were told to listen to doctors, then we were told not any old doctors but epidemiologists.  Now we are told only some epidemiologists can be heard.

Have people not learned their history for examples when conventional wisdom called the minority group crazy and they turned out right?

What is with YouTube deciding who is right or wrong here?  Maddening and the gov’t should regulate these digital behemoths.

Lol.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 18, 2020, 06:49:19 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 18, 2020, 05:57:39 PM

More doctor views banned by Youtube.  This time epidemiologist is banned.  Early we were told to listen to doctors, then we were told not any old doctors but epidemiologists.  Now we are told only some epidemiologists can be heard.

Have people not learned their history for examples when conventional wisdom called the minority group crazy and they turned out right?

What is with YouTube deciding who is right or wrong here?  Maddening and the gov’t should regulate these digital behemoths.

Government regulating the behemoths would be censorship.    The behemoths choosing to take crazy down is no different than what the mods do here.   Their platform, their rules.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on May 18, 2020, 07:11:10 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 18, 2020, 05:57:39 PM

More doctor views banned by Youtube.  This time epidemiologist is banned.  Early we were told to listen to doctors, then we were told not any old doctors but epidemiologists.  Now we are told only some epidemiologists can be heard.

Have people not learned their history for examples when conventional wisdom called the minority group crazy and they turned out right?

What is with YouTube deciding who is right or wrong here?  Maddening and the gov’t should regulate these digital behemoths.

Interesting take from someone who has never voted for republican in their life.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 18, 2020, 07:46:48 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 18, 2020, 05:57:39 PM

What is with YouTube deciding who is right or wrong here?  Maddening and the gov’t should regulate these digital behemoths.

"We quickly remove flagged content that violates our Community Guidelines, including content that explicitly disputes the efficacy of local health authority recommended guidance on social distancing that may lead others to act against that guidance."

YouTube isn't deciding who's right and wrong. YouTube is deciding that it doesn't want to host  content that endangers the public's welfare.
Weird to see a "Blue Dog Democrat" such as yourself demanding more government regulation of private enterprise.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 18, 2020, 07:48:02 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 18, 2020, 03:40:02 PM

So the answer to Chick’s question is a qualified “yes”.

Correct. And the magnitude of the issue would be related to the clarity of the rules.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on May 19, 2020, 05:23:23 AM

Some promising signs about re-infection:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-19/covid-patients-testing-positive-after-recovery-aren-t-infectious

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on May 19, 2020, 06:06:57 AM

Quote from: MU82 on May 17, 2020, 09:25:59 PM

Thought you were a dentist, not a medical examiner.

Most epidemiologists and infectious disease experts believe that the number of deaths has been under-reported by a considerable margin.

But hey, if an anonymous guy on the interwebs says otherwise ... and then gives us a link to an article that doesn't come close to proving what he was claiming ... well then, I sit corrected.

Please don’t tell me you haven’t seen the widespread corrections because if you haven’t, then we’ve got to start with teaching you how google works or watching some news, not all.  But Pennsylvania and Colorado are 2 states with some significant corrections.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on May 19, 2020, 08:11:44 AM

Quote from: MU82 on May 17, 2020, 09:25:59 PM

Thought you were a dentist, not a medical examiner.

Most epidemiologists and infectious disease experts believe that the number of deaths has been under-reported by a considerable margin.

But hey, if an anonymous guy on the interwebs says otherwise ... and then gives us a link to an article that doesn't come close to proving what he was claiming ... well then, I sit corrected.

 i am ONLY A DENTIST, but i took enough microbiology between under grad and dental school to have a major in it.  that does not make me an epidemiologist by any means.  i also worked for a medical examiner at st joseph's hospital under dr charles altschuler while i was in dental school.  no, that doe not qualify me as a medical examiner, but i a little feel for what and how they do their jobs. 

i did post a link from the colorado sun i believe that stated the corrections in the death #'s.  i've got to be careful so as not to post links from anyof those "far right wing" sites though cuz we all know they lie and have an agenda

https://coloradosun.com/2020/05/15/colorado-coronavirus-death-certificate/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2020/04/25/coronavirus-death-toll-hard-track-1-3-death-certificates-wrong/3020778001/


but hey, if some guy purporting to be a "journalist" needs to have links, no problem,  this has been widely reported however.  even in the new york times ::)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 19, 2020, 08:21:15 AM

Overall deaths are up significantly, even though they are significantly down in areas such as auto accidents, murders, flu related deaths, etc. are down.
Other states are doing there best to not count numbers or hide them. Welcome to Florida.

As Florida re-opens, COVID-19 data chief gets sidelined and researchers cry foul

https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/2020/05/18/censorship-covid-19-data-researcher-removed-florida-moves-re-open-state/5212398002/

Late last Friday, the architect and manager of Florida's COVID-19 dashboard — praised by White House officials for its accessibility — announced that she had been removed from her post, causing outcry from independent researchers now worried about government censorship.

But over the last few weeks it had "crashed" and gone offline; data has gone missing without explanation and access to the underlying data sheets has become increasingly difficult.

And from a Sinclair Broadcasting station even:
https://cbs12.com/news/local/woman-who-designed-floridas-covid-19-dashboard-has-been-removed-from-her-position
Rebekah Jones said in an email to CBS12 News that her removal was "not voluntary" and that she was removed from her position because she was ordered to censor some data, but refused to "manually change data to drum up support for the plan to reopen."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 19, 2020, 08:36:44 AM

Hey, look, another state having to change its numbers:

The state of Georgia made it look like its covid cases were going down ***by putting the dates out of order on its chart*** May 5 was followed by April 25, then back to May again, whatever made it look like a downslope.


https://twitter.com/Fahrenthold/status/1262029906512404480

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 19, 2020, 08:51:30 AM

The good news is that we only have to put up with this "virus" for 6 more days. We have Pence's assurance that it will be gone by Monday.

Apparently, the virus won't really be gone, so we will just change the numbers. A Miracle!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 19, 2020, 08:59:13 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on May 19, 2020, 08:11:44 AM

i did post a link from the colorado sun i believe that stated the corrections in the death #'s.  i've got to be careful so as not to post links from anyof those "far right wing" sites though cuz we all know they lie and have an agenda

After your many rants against Huffpo MSNBC or even CNN which is considerably more centered (though admittedly still left of center) you cannot possibly be insinuating that you hold your far right wing media sites to a different standard or just don't believe that they don't have an agenda...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 19, 2020, 09:27:45 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on May 19, 2020, 08:11:44 AM

i am ONLY A DENTIST, but i took enough microbiology between under grad and dental school to have a major in it.  that does not make me an epidemiologist by any means.  i also worked for a medical examiner at st joseph's hospital under dr charles altschuler while i was in dental school.  no, that doe not qualify me as a medical examiner, but i a little feel for what and how they do their jobs. 

i did post a link from the colorado sun i believe that stated the corrections in the death #'s.  i've got to be careful so as not to post links from anyof those "far right wing" sites though cuz we all know they lie and have an agenda

https://coloradosun.com/2020/05/15/colorado-coronavirus-death-certificate/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2020/04/25/coronavirus-death-toll-hard-track-1-3-death-certificates-wrong/3020778001/


but hey, if some guy purporting to be a "journalist" needs to have links, no problem,  this has been widely reported however.  even in the new york times ::)

Yes, some states have "corrected" to lower numbers. And some have "corrected" to higher numbers. Florida won't reveal all of its numbers, so we're supposed to take their governor's word for it. Georgia was intentionally under-reporting.

All I know is that the majority of articles I've read and TV reports I've seen have quoted epidemiologists and other infectious disease experts as saying the totals have been under-reported, and probably significantly so.

But just for funsies, let's say they have not been under-reported. Indeed, let's say the people you want to believe are right, and deaths have been over-reported by, say, 10%.

Congratulations, rocket! You can celebrate only 82K+ being killed by something Trump and Vice President Hannity called "just the flu" and Limbaugh called "the common cold." A mere 82K. And mostly old people, so who cares? You win!

Now, doc, you are free to go back to enthusiastically supporting a president who less than 3 months ago was boasting that U.S. coronavirus deaths would be "close to zero within days," who two months ago was counting on a "miracle" to make the virus magically disappear, and who last month was pushing his medical people to explore the benefits of injecting Lysol into the human body.

Because ... well ... science!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 19, 2020, 09:37:34 AM

Quote from: MU82 on May 19, 2020, 09:27:45 AM

Yes, some states have "corrected" to lower numbers. And some have "corrected" to higher numbers. Florida won't reveal all of its numbers, so we're supposed to take their governor's word for it. Georgia was intentionally under-reporting.

All I know is that the majority of articles I've read and TV reports I've seen have quoted epidemiologists and other infectious disease experts as saying the totals have been under-reported, and probably significantly so.

But just for funsies, let's say they have not been under-reported. Indeed, let's say the people you want to believe are right, and deaths have been over-reported by, say, 10%.

Congratulations, rocket! You can celebrate only 82K+ being killed by something Trump and Vice President Hannity called "just the flu" and Limbaugh called "the common cold." A mere 82K. And mostly old people, so who cares? You win!

Now, doc, you are free to go back to enthusiastically supporting a president who less than 3 months ago was boasting that U.S. coronavirus deaths would be "close to zero within days," who two months ago was counting on a "miracle" to make the virus magically disappear, and who last month was pushing his medical people to explore the benefits of injecting Lysol into the human body.

Because ... well ... science!

What are your qualifications and education in the fields of medicine and epidemiology?  How many science classes did you take in college?  How does being a blogger qualify you to understand the nuances of a public health emergency?

Thanks in advance for your answers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 19, 2020, 09:40:59 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 19, 2020, 09:37:34 AM

What are your qualifications and education in the fields of medicine and epidemiology?  How many science classes did you take in college?  How does being a blogger qualify you to understand the nuances of a public health emergency?

Thanks in advance for your answers.

Teal?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 19, 2020, 09:48:40 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on May 19, 2020, 06:06:57 AM

Please don’t tell me you haven’t seen the widespread corrections because if you haven’t, then we’ve got to start with teaching you how google works or watching some news, not all.  But Pennsylvania and Colorado are 2 states with some significant corrections.

It's important to look at why they made corrections. For Pennsylvania, they had decided to use the model that most of the industrialized world uses, because it is more accurate and allows researchers to better track cases. They had decided to include deaths that were probable COVID, so lets say a person dies at home of double pneumonia, but had never been tested. Using a test here, is a waste of resources, it is almost certainly COVID, a clinical diagnosis is more than sufficient.

What happened after they did that, was there was extensive political pushback from the right, saying they were inflating numbers, trying to make Trump look bad. Based on political pressure, they removed the probable cases. That political pressure made it harder to track cases, and makes us undercount compared to how most of the industrial world counts numbers.

A similar story can be held for Colorado. Neither was a case where they were simply correcting for "errors." They were making changes under political pressure, to change to a system that intentionally undercounts compared to the rest of the world.

Do you think that is a good thing?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 19, 2020, 10:57:51 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on May 19, 2020, 08:11:44 AM

i am ONLY A DENTIST, but i took enough microbiology between under grad and dental school to have a major in it.  that does not make me an epidemiologist by any means.  i also worked for a medical examiner at st joseph's hospital under dr charles altschuler while i was in dental school.  no, that doe not qualify me as a medical examiner, but i a little feel for what and how they do their jobs. 

i did post a link from the colorado sun i believe that stated the corrections in the death #'s.  i've got to be careful so as not to post links from anyof those "far right wing" sites though cuz we all know they lie and have an agenda

https://coloradosun.com/2020/05/15/colorado-coronavirus-death-certificate/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2020/04/25/coronavirus-death-toll-hard-track-1-3-death-certificates-wrong/3020778001/


but hey, if some guy purporting to be a "journalist" needs to have links, no problem,  this has been widely reported however.  even in the new york times ::)

Do you happen to have those answers yet that I asked for earlier?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 19, 2020, 12:23:47 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 19, 2020, 09:37:34 AM

What are your qualifications and education in the fields of medicine and epidemiology?  How many science classes did you take in college?  How does being a blogger qualify you to understand the nuances of a public health emergency?

Thanks in advance for your answers.

I read, I think, and I form opinions. Does that make me unique in ScoopLand? Or in America? Or in the world?

I mean, you state your opinion on many things, but I guess that is because you have spent years studying every subject on which you opine. It must have been challenging for you to go to college for, oh, 1,240 years.

And sure, before any Scooper ever again criticizes the president of the United States for wanting to inject people with Lysol, we should all have to earn advanced degrees in epidemiology. Because that's the only way anybody could possibly understand that it might be a bad idea.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 19, 2020, 12:41:24 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 19, 2020, 12:23:47 PM

And sure, before any Scooper ever again criticizes the president of the United States for wanting to inject people with Lysol, we should all have to earn advanced degrees in epidemiology. Because that's the only way anybody could possibly understand that it might be a bad idea.

Maybe we should hold posters on the main board to this standard before they're allowed to question coaching or recruiting strategies.
You've never coached D1 hoops? Then STFU about Wojo's decisions.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 19, 2020, 12:57:51 PM

And here's an interesting story ...

https://www.christianpost.com/news/georgia-church-closes-two-weeks-after-reopening-as-families-come-down-with-coronavirus-236899/?fbclid=IwAR0fl1Tk019f4qPVWby_oDgTYVSlk0YBXaX5BVIi40paTsqkSUbL6Wz4x5A

A Georgia church that reopened after shutting down due to the coronavirus has axed in-person services again in what they describe as “an effort of extreme caution” as several of their families have become infected by the deadly disease.

Catoosa Baptist Tabernacle, an independent Baptist church led by Pastor Justin Gazaway in Ringgold, Georgia, restarted in-person services on April 26. Church representative Joan Lewis told The Christian Post on Monday, however, that they decided to suspend “in-person worship services for the foreseeable future” on May 11 after learning several families had contracted the virus.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 19, 2020, 01:10:48 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 19, 2020, 12:41:24 PM

Maybe we should hold posters on the main board to this standard before they're allowed to question coaching or recruiting strategies.
You've never coached D1 hoops? Then STFU about Wojo's decisions.

Wrong, just have to have dunked in HS.  That's the established standard.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GBPhoenix1993 on May 19, 2020, 01:28:03 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 19, 2020, 12:57:51 PM

And here's an interesting story ...

https://www.christianpost.com/news/georgia-church-closes-two-weeks-after-reopening-as-families-come-down-with-coronavirus-236899/?fbclid=IwAR0fl1Tk019f4qPVWby_oDgTYVSlk0YBXaX5BVIi40paTsqkSUbL6Wz4x5A

A Georgia church that reopened after shutting down due to the coronavirus has axed in-person services again in what they describe as “an effort of extreme caution” as several of their families have become infected by the deadly disease.

Catoosa Baptist Tabernacle, an independent Baptist church led by Pastor Justin Gazaway in Ringgold, Georgia, restarted in-person services on April 26. Church representative Joan Lewis told The Christian Post on Monday, however, that they decided to suspend “in-person worship services for the foreseeable future” on May 11 after learning several families had contracted the virus.

It's sad but I don't see any way large Churches can have in-person services without severe restrictions for at minimum the next few months.  I mean like a church that normally has 500 people for a service probably should be limited to like 25 persons or fewer which almost makes it not worth even having the in person service at all for a larger type church.

I belong to the Elmbrook mega church here in Brookfield, WI and I don't see myself going back to an in person service for awhile if they even bother having them. 

I saw Spring Creek church in this area had everyone just stay in their cars and listen almost like in a drive-in movie theater.  Everyone was in the parking lot, but nobody got out of their cars.  I think this is the way churches will need to operate or they will have to be very creative in how to limit/stop virus spread.  The days of having large churches with everyone packed closely together for worship needs to be put on hold for at least a little while until there is more confidence it can be done safely. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 19, 2020, 02:20:55 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 19, 2020, 09:27:45 AM

Yes, some states have "corrected" to lower numbers. And some have "corrected" to higher numbers. Florida won't reveal all of its numbers, so we're supposed to take their governor's word for it. Georgia was intentionally under-reporting.

All I know is that the majority of articles I've read and TV reports I've seen have quoted epidemiologists and other infectious disease experts as saying the totals have been under-reported, and probably significantly so.

But just for funsies, let's say they have not been under-reported. Indeed, let's say the people you want to believe are right, and deaths have been over-reported by, say, 10%.

Congratulations, rocket! You can celebrate only 82K+ being killed by something Trump and Vice President Hannity called "just the flu" and Limbaugh called "the common cold." A mere 82K. And mostly old people, so who cares? You win!

Now, doc, you are free to go back to enthusiastically supporting a president who less than 3 months ago was boasting that U.S. coronavirus deaths would be "close to zero within days," who two months ago was counting on a "miracle" to make the virus magically disappear, and who last month was pushing his medical people to explore the benefits of injecting Lysol into the human body.

Because ... well ... science!

3 months ago Fauci was laying at the idea and saying it would be silly to require masks. 

Because....well.....science

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 19, 2020, 02:22:20 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 19, 2020, 02:20:55 PM

3 months ago Fauci was laying at the idea and saying it would be silly to require masks. 

Because....well.....science

Thou shall not question the well read blogger.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 19, 2020, 02:24:46 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 19, 2020, 02:20:55 PM

3 months ago Fauci was laying at the idea and saying it would be silly to require masks. 

Because....well.....science

I love the idea that no one can ever make a mistake or revisit a position based on new information.  And if they do, that means that everything they have ever said previously is therefore invalid.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 19, 2020, 02:26:45 PM

Quote from: forgetful on May 19, 2020, 09:48:40 AM

It's important to look at why they made corrections. For Pennsylvania, they had decided to use the model that most of the industrialized world uses, because it is more accurate and allows researchers to better track cases. They had decided to include deaths that were probable COVID, so lets say a person dies at home of double pneumonia, but had never been tested. Using a test here, is a waste of resources, it is almost certainly COVID, a clinical diagnosis is more than sufficient.

What happened after they did that, was there was extensive political pushback from the right, saying they were inflating numbers, trying to make Trump look bad. Based on political pressure, they removed the probable cases. That political pressure made it harder to track cases, and makes us undercount compared to how most of the industrial world counts numbers.

A similar story can be held for Colorado. Neither was a case where they were simply correcting for "errors." They were making changes under political pressure, to change to a system that intentionally undercounts compared to the rest of the world.

Do you think that is a good thing?

After seeing the way posters here and many media outlets have weaponized the death toll to induce panic/fear, yes I think a more accurate accounting of Covid deaths is important.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on May 19, 2020, 02:29:11 PM

Quote from: GBPhoenix1993 on May 19, 2020, 01:28:03 PM

The days of having large churches with everyone packed closely together for worship needs to be put on hold for at least a little while until there is more confidence it can be done safely.

The cluster of Catholic churches that serve Downtown/East Side/Riverwest have decided to delay opening, even though the Archdiocese has given them the okay.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 19, 2020, 02:32:34 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 19, 2020, 02:26:45 PM

After seeing the way posters here and many media outlets have weaponized the death toll to induce panic/fear, yes I think a more accurate accounting of Covid deaths is important.

Wow.  Pointing out that errors on how this has been handled...you know...holding elected officials accountable...is now "weaponizing the death toll."

Absolutely amazing how much people are willing to let things slide when its "their guy."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 19, 2020, 02:36:48 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 19, 2020, 02:24:46 PM

I love the idea that no one can ever make a mistake or revisit a position based on new information.  And if they do, that means that everything they have ever said previously is therefore invalid.

I agree 100%.....I do not blame Fauci for saying that then nor do in fault him for saying there was no reason to believe it could be passed with human to human contact and the handful of other things he’s turned out to be wrong on as the pandemic evolved and we learned more about it.

That same attitude shouldn’t just be reserved for Fauci, Cuomo, and the 100s of other people who can look back wishing to change a thing or two in their local response to Covid.  Trump has been far from perfect in this but he seems to be the only one where perfection is expected and anything short of that makes his handling of this a complete failure. 

Everyone said from day 1 he should listen to the scientists.  Ironically, I think the biggest mistake he made was, from day 1 he was listening ONLY to his scientists.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 19, 2020, 02:42:58 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 19, 2020, 02:32:34 PM

Wow.  Pointing out that errors on how this has been handled...you know...holding elected officials accountable...is now "weaponizing the death toll."

Absolutely amazing how much people are willing to let things slide when its "their guy."

Where did I mention Trump?  I don’t like how they’ve focused so much on the death number and not given broader context to it which has lead to a good chunk of our population being too afraid to leave their houses to even visit family and celebrate big life events.

Only someone who views everything through the lens of Trump would read my comment and reply the way you did.  TDS

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 19, 2020, 02:45:06 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 19, 2020, 02:36:48 PM

I agree 100%.....I do not blame Fauci for saying that then nor do in fault him for saying there was no reason to believe it could be passed with human to human contact and the handful of other things he’s turned out to be wrong on as the pandemic evolved and we learned more about it.

That same attitude shouldn’t just be reserved for Fauci, Cuomo, and the 100s of other people who can look back wishing to change a thing or two in their local response to Covid.  Trump has been far from perfect in this but he seems to be the only one where perfection is expected and anything short of that makes his handling of this a complete failure. 

Everyone said from day 1 he should listen to the scientists.  Ironically, I think the biggest mistake he made was, from day 1 he was listening ONLY to his scientists.

I hardly expect perfection from Trump. 

I expect consistency from him.  Consistency in messaging and action.  We're not even getting that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 19, 2020, 02:45:45 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 19, 2020, 02:26:45 PM

After seeing the way posters here and many media outlets have weaponized the death toll to induce panic/fear, yes I think a more accurate accounting of Covid deaths is important.

It's disgusting how the media are making such a big deal about 91,000 dead in less than three months.
#justtheflu

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 19, 2020, 02:46:06 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 19, 2020, 02:26:45 PM

After seeing the way posters here and many media outlets have weaponized the death toll to induce panic/fear, yes I think a more accurate accounting of Covid deaths is important.

People aren't weaponizing the death toll. They are trying to accurately portray the state of COVID infections.

But, so you agree that the actions taken by Pennsylvania and Colorado to decrease deaths, and in turn intentionally undercount COVID deaths, due to political reasons was a terrible idea.

And that an accurate accounting of deaths, by including probable cases is the right thing to do.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 19, 2020, 02:49:21 PM

Quote from: forgetful on May 19, 2020, 02:46:06 PM

People aren't weaponizing the death toll. They are trying to accurately portray the state of COVID infections.

But, so you agree that the actions taken by Pennsylvania and Colorado to decrease deaths, and in turn intentionally undercount COVID deaths, due to political reasons was a terrible idea.

And that an accurate accounting of deaths, by including probable cases is the right thing to do.

Pakuni, in the post right above you, is weaponized the death toll.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 19, 2020, 02:52:03 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 19, 2020, 02:49:21 PM

Pakuni, in the post right above you, is weaponized the death toll.

Not really.  It was a snarky comment.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 19, 2020, 02:54:08 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 19, 2020, 02:49:21 PM

Pakuni, in the post right above you, is weaponized the death toll.

Haha

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 19, 2020, 02:54:32 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 19, 2020, 02:52:03 PM

Not really.  It was a snarky comment.

Considering who the poster is, it's not snark.  He's the smartest one here and only speaks facts. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 19, 2020, 02:55:59 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 19, 2020, 02:22:20 PM

Thou shall not question the well read blogger.

Said nobody. Especially me.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/xT1XGPqs2QsfJCD5HW/giphy.gif)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 19, 2020, 02:59:34 PM

Quote from: forgetful on May 19, 2020, 02:46:06 PM

People aren't weaponizing the death toll. They are trying to accurately portray the state of COVID infections.

But, so you agree that the actions taken by Pennsylvania and Colorado to decrease deaths, and in turn intentionally undercount COVID deaths, due to political reasons was a terrible idea.

And that an accurate accounting of deaths, by including probable cases is the right thing to do.

If they adjusted it down purely for political reasons then I think that’s a terrible idea.  Not sure how two D governors adjusted their death number down because of political pressure from members in a minority party with historically low approval numbers but if that’s your take have at it.

I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt that maybe they are just trying to give a more accurate count.  Would be interesting if states could/would list out actual deaths and then a number for “probable” deaths.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 19, 2020, 03:01:41 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 19, 2020, 02:54:32 PM

Considering who the poster is, it's not snark.  He's the smartest one here and only speaks facts. 

Actually Pakuni is pretty level headed.  And hyperbole only shows how weak your statement is.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 19, 2020, 03:02:36 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 19, 2020, 02:54:32 PM

Considering who the poster is, it's not snark.  He's the smartest one here and only speaks facts.

And the rest of us just vote for trump cus he don’t use no big words.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 19, 2020, 03:06:33 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 19, 2020, 02:54:32 PM

Considering who the poster is, it's not snark.  He's the smartest one here and only speaks facts.

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ThirdQuestionableClam-size_restricted.gif)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 19, 2020, 03:09:14 PM

Facts are now 'weaponized'.   Think about that for a minute.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 19, 2020, 03:09:38 PM

(https://media.giphy.com/media/Xxei1HDpBhMys/200.gif)

(https://media.tenor.com/images/f55e2c6d91b85972cf3ccbf71b3bf8bf/tenor.gif)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 19, 2020, 03:10:15 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 19, 2020, 02:36:48 PM

That same attitude shouldn’t just be reserved for Fauci, Cuomo, and the 100s of other people who can look back wishing to change a thing or two in their local response to Covid.  Trump has been far from perfect in this but he seems to be the only one where perfection is expected and anything short of that makes his handling of this a complete failure. 

Nobody expects perfection from Trump. Quite the contrary; at this point, most would be happy with competence, humanity and a willingness to admit when he was wrong. Regrettably, he falls short even of these modest expectations.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 19, 2020, 03:14:33 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 19, 2020, 02:24:46 PM

I love the idea that no one can ever make a mistake or revisit a position based on new information.  And if they do, that means that everything they have ever said previously is therefore invalid.

Absolutely.  In addition, if you admit you were wrong about something, you are now wrong about everything forever.  We are rigid beings who can not make mistakes, admit the mistakes we make, nor accept mistakes from others.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 19, 2020, 03:16:43 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 19, 2020, 03:06:33 PM

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ThirdQuestionableClam-size_restricted.gif)

Haha!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 19, 2020, 03:18:02 PM

Quote from: tower912 on May 19, 2020, 03:09:14 PM

Facts are now 'weaponized'.   Think about that for a minute.

I guess that’s the root of the issue....the number that’s being reported might not actually be very factual.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 19, 2020, 03:19:57 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 19, 2020, 02:59:34 PM

If they adjusted it down purely for political reasons then I think that’s a terrible idea.  Not sure how two D governors adjusted their death number down because of political pressure from members in a minority party with historically low approval numbers but if that’s your take have at it.

I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt that maybe they are just trying to give a more accurate count.  Would be interesting if states could/would list out actual deaths and then a number for “probable” deaths.

There are things called elections. This is an election year. Pennsylvania and Colorado are competitive states. Outside money and influences were using the "deaths number" as a rallying cry to bring in more money for the GOP cause. Changing the numbers, negates that rallying cry.

There was already data showing those states were actually undercounting. Reducing the number of deaths deliberately exacerbates that problem.

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 19, 2020, 03:18:02 PM

I guess that’s the root of the issue....the number that’s being reported might not actually be very factual.

You are right. The data shows that we are undercounting the number of deaths.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 19, 2020, 03:20:30 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 19, 2020, 03:18:02 PM

I guess that’s the root of the issue....the number that’s being reported might not actually be very factual.

If anything, it is underreported.  Those who have increased it, are actually following federal guidelines.

And then there is this.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/05/19/florida-covid-19-coronavirus-data-researcher-out-state-reopens/5218897002/?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 19, 2020, 03:41:13 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 19, 2020, 03:20:30 PM

If anything, it is underreported.  Those who have increased it, are actually following federal guidelines.

And then there is this.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/05/19/florida-covid-19-coronavirus-data-researcher-out-state-reopens/5218897002/?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot

That's one of the sadder (non-death or non-sickness) articles I've read since this whole thing started. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 19, 2020, 03:54:44 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 19, 2020, 03:18:02 PM

I guess that’s the root of the issue....the number that’s being reported might not actually be very factual.

It might be off by a fraction of a percent nationwide.   But right now, an entire defense is being mounted on the notion that a few hundred deaths nationwide might possibly only have COVID as a secondary reason, that even though the patient had COVID, something else killed them.   And a few death certificates out of 90k (and rising) is somehow proof of conspiracy.    What a crock.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 19, 2020, 03:58:59 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 19, 2020, 02:36:48 PM

That same attitude shouldn’t just be reserved for Fauci, Cuomo, and the 100s of other people who can look back wishing to change a thing or two in their local response to Covid.  Trump has been far from perfect in this but he seems to be the only one where perfection is expected and anything short of that makes his handling of this a complete failure. 

Everyone said from day 1 he should listen to the scientists.  Ironically, I think the biggest mistake he made was, from day 1 he was listening ONLY to his scientists.

Cuomo, DeWine, Hogan, Newsom and the like didn't get high marks because they were perfect, they got high marks because they took it seriously, worked very hard to protect their citizens, showed empathy, accepted responsibility, and attempted to follow scientific and medical advice.

Similarly, Trump wasn't a failure because he wasn't perfect, he was a failure because he did pretty much the opposite of what the governors above did. He didn't take it seriously, tried to downplay it, wasted 8 weeks playing golf and holding rallies, refused to take any responsibility, blamed anyone and everyone besides himself, told states they were on their own, and when a scientific plan was finally outlined he wasted no time immediately undermining it with "LIBERATE!" tweets.

The President of the United States should be held to a higher standard than Governors as he has the full power of the national government behind him. However, even if we hold him to the same standard, he was an abject failure.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 19, 2020, 04:04:03 PM

Quote from: tower912 on May 19, 2020, 03:54:44 PM

It might be off by a fraction of a percent nationwide.   But right now, an entire defense is being mounted on the notion that a few hundred deaths nationwide might possibly only have COVID as a secondary reason, that even though the patient had COVID, something else killed them.   And a few death certificates out of 90k (and rising) is somehow proof of conspiracy.    What a crock.

Yep. I mean, even if you and I had the authority to say, "You know what, Trumpsters ... you're right! Deaths have been over-reported by 10%!" ... that means there still have been 80K COVID-19 deaths in just a few months.

Heck, even if they have been over-reported by 25%, it's still nearly 70K deaths.

IMHO, based on everything I have read and heard, death totals have been under-reported, and probably significantly so. But yes, even if they had been over-reported by 10% or 15% or 25%, it's still a tragic number of deaths.

Talk about a ridiculous talking point for some supporters of President Pandemic to keep harping on.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 19, 2020, 04:19:36 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 19, 2020, 04:04:03 PM

Yep. I mean, even if you and I had the authority to say, "You know what, Trumpsters ... you're right! Deaths have been over-reported by 10%!" ... that means there still have been 80K COVID-19 deaths in just a few months.

Heck, even if they have been over-reported by 25%, it's still nearly 70K deaths.

IMHO, based on everything I have read and heard, death totals have been under-reported, and probably significantly so. But yes, even if they had been over-reported by 10% or 15% or 25%, it's still a tragic number of deaths.

Talk about a ridiculous talking point for some supporters of President Pandemic to keep harping on.

Not sure about others but as I stated the accurate reporting of deaths I feel is important so the public can weigh risk/reward and accurate mortality rate by age group, etc.

Nothing to do with Trumps handling of it.  You’re right whether it’s 60K deaths or 100K deaths everyone has their opinion of his handling already locked in but having an accurate number will hopefully lead to
More informed decision making at local levels on when/how to reopen.

Also if it’s closer to 60K deaths as opposed to 100K then You could argue #itsjusttheflu

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on May 19, 2020, 04:30:48 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 19, 2020, 04:19:36 PM

Also if it’s closer to 60K deaths as opposed to 100K then You could argue #itsjusttheflu

Do you really suspect over counting by 50%?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 19, 2020, 04:31:44 PM

We need a humor thread here - I don't know what else to call this.


In a speech to farmers in Virginia today, the big-brained genius said “We’re going after Virginia with your crazy governor. We’re going after Virginia. They want to take your Second Amendment away. You know that, right? You’ll have nobody guarding your potatoes.”


Maybe Trump could start a Civilian Potato Defense Force. Kinda like one of FDR's programs during the depression.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 19, 2020, 04:34:27 PM

Quote from: Jockey on May 19, 2020, 04:31:44 PM

We need a humor thread here - I don't know what else to call this.


In a speech to farmers in Virginia today, the big-brained genius said “We’re going after Virginia with your crazy governor. We’re going after Virginia. They want to take your Second Amendment away. You know that, right? You’ll have nobody guarding your potatoes.”


Maybe Trump could start a Civilian Potato Defense Force. Kinda like one of FDR's programs during the depression.

We have one it's called the Irish-American community.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 19, 2020, 04:37:07 PM

Quote from: Jockey on May 19, 2020, 04:31:44 PM

We need a humor thread here - I don't know what else to call this.


In a speech to farmers in Virginia today, the big-brained genius said “We’re going after Virginia with your crazy governor. We’re going after Virginia. They want to take your Second Amendment away. You know that, right? You’ll have nobody guarding your potatoes.”


Maybe Trump could start a Civilian Potato Defense Force. Kinda like one of FDR's programs during the depression.

Two words:

SPUD FORCE!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 19, 2020, 04:37:09 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 19, 2020, 03:20:30 PM

If anything, it is underreported.  Those who have increased it, are actually following federal guidelines.

And then there is this.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/05/19/florida-covid-19-coronavirus-data-researcher-out-state-reopens/5218897002/?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot

Hopefully as this story gets out, she will be rewarded with a better job...like maybe at a health department that actually takes its job seriously.

DeSantis clearly deserves a failing grade for his handling of the crisis. At this point, I don't trust Florida's numbers any more than I trust China's.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 19, 2020, 04:43:14 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 19, 2020, 04:19:36 PM

Also if it’s closer to 60K deaths as opposed to 100K then You could argue #itsjusttheflu

Nah.
According to CDC, since 2010 the flu has killed between a low of 12,000 and a high of 61,000 a year in the U.S. The yearly average over the decade so far is about 37,400.
Even if we ignore every expert who says we're undercounting COVID-19 - and then cut a third off the official count so far - we're still beyond the worst flu season in a decade, and getting close to double the average. And it's a good bet we haven't seen our last COVID death this year.

This is not just the flu and those who said so have been exposed as the fools that they are.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 19, 2020, 04:51:13 PM

Quote from: Jockey on May 19, 2020, 04:31:44 PM

We need a humor thread here - I don't know what else to call this.


In a speech to farmers in Virginia today, the big-brained genius said “We’re going after Virginia with your crazy governor. We’re going after Virginia. They want to take your Second Amendment away. You know that, right? You’ll have nobody guarding your potatoes.”


Maybe Trump could start a Civilian Potato Defense Force. Kinda like one of FDR's programs during the depression.

Creation of the CPDF would probably be looked back at as the highlight of his presidency....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 19, 2020, 05:04:05 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 19, 2020, 04:19:36 PM

Also if it’s closer to 60K deaths as opposed to 100K then You could argue #itsjusttheflu

Multiple analyses have indicated that the likely number is closer to the 130,000 - 140,000 range currently. #fluX10

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 19, 2020, 05:05:57 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 19, 2020, 04:19:36 PM

Not sure about others but as I stated the accurate reporting of deaths I feel is important so the public can weigh risk/reward and accurate mortality rate by age group, etc.

Nothing to do with Trumps handling of it.  You’re right whether it’s 60K deaths or 100K deaths everyone has their opinion of his handling already locked in but having an accurate number will hopefully lead to
More informed decision making at local levels on when/how to reopen.

Also if it’s closer to 60K deaths as opposed to 100K then You could argue #itsjusttheflu

I posted this elsewhere.   In Michigan, there have been 2200ish flu deaths since 2000.    5000+ COVID deaths in 9 weeks.   Nothing alike.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 19, 2020, 05:15:24 PM

And thank you, Mr. President.   Until today, I was unaware that potato crops were so important in Virginia.    Thank you, sir, for that information and getting out in front of protecting them from the potential potato ravagers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 19, 2020, 05:16:59 PM

Quote from: tower912 on May 19, 2020, 05:15:24 PM

And thank you, Mr. President.   Until today, I was unaware that potato crops were so important in Virginia.    Thank you, sir, for that information and getting out in front of protecting them from the potential potato ravagers.

Potato looting is the biggest threat to the citizens of Virginia.  It destroys the lives of millions of Virginia residents yearly.  You’ll never hear it from the lame stream media, of course

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 19, 2020, 05:59:08 PM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 19, 2020, 05:16:59 PM

Potato looting is the biggest threat to the citizens of Virginia.  It destroys the lives of millions of Virginia residents yearly.  You’ll never hear it from the lame stream media, of course

You're on your game, Unc.

You've had a couple great posts today.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on May 19, 2020, 06:15:20 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 19, 2020, 04:37:07 PM

Two words:

SPUD FORCE!

Finally, someone to protect us from our starch enemies.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 19, 2020, 06:36:41 PM

Just another half baked fry-t wing conspiracy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 19, 2020, 06:44:59 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 19, 2020, 04:43:14 PM

Nah.
According to CDC, since 2010 the flu has killed between a low of 12,000 and a high of 61,000 a year in the U.S. The yearly average over the decade so far is about 37,400.
Even if we ignore every expert who says we're undercounting COVID-19 - and then cut a third off the official count so far - we're still beyond the worst flu season in a decade, and getting close to double the average. And it's a good bet we haven't seen our last COVID death this year.

This is not just the flu and those who said so have been exposed as the fools that they are.

Oooooo, "the fools that they are".  Lets not forget the flu has a vaccine that on an average year is 50% successful in prevention.  Maybe this is just a new version of the flu (influenza C we can call it moving forward?) that once we have a vaccine readily available will also only kill 40,000 people a year.  Is that an acceptable number of annual deaths for you? Would be interested to hear what the rest of the "orange bad man" echo chamber thinks is acceptable deaths, hospitalizations moving forward once there is a vaccine?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 19, 2020, 06:46:40 PM

Quote from: tower912 on May 19, 2020, 06:36:41 PM

Just another half baked fry-t wing conspiracy.

Potatoes are the root (vegetable) of all evil.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 19, 2020, 07:36:18 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 19, 2020, 06:44:59 PM

Maybe this is just a new version of the flu (influenza C we can call it moving forward?)

Ummm, no. How do we know? There is this thing called "Science".

I mean, hey, maybe COVID is just another version of Herpes, heh?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 19, 2020, 07:39:37 PM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 19, 2020, 05:16:59 PM

Potato looting is the biggest threat to the citizens of Virginia.  It destroys the lives of millions of Virginia residents yearly.  You’ll never hear it from the lame stream media, of course

Even though the VA Ag department says that Potatoes are a very distant 19th in the battle for farm product supremacy in the state.

https://www.vdacs.virginia.gov/agriculture-top20.shtml

People aren’t after those chickens, soybeans or corn. It’s all about the spuds. Protect the potatoes!!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 19, 2020, 07:53:19 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on May 19, 2020, 07:36:18 PM

Ummm, no. How do we know? There is this thing called "Science".

I mean, hey, maybe COVID is just another version of Herpes, heh?

I think you get what I was trying to say but fair enough.  Let's say Covid-19 is here to stay and the vaccine proves 60% effective and the avg annual death number is 40,000 with the vast vast majority of those being 70+.

Are we good with that?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 19, 2020, 09:34:31 PM

Quote from: MUfan12 on May 19, 2020, 06:15:20 PM

Finally, someone to protect us from our starch enemies.

Very, very nice.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 19, 2020, 09:37:41 PM

I just hope Canada doesn't make us pay for the wall if they build one ...

https://www.kansascity.com/news/coronavirus/article242835031.html?

Americans wanting to visit the country’s northern border have been out of luck the past two months due to coronavirus restrictions.

And if Canadians have it their way, those restrictions will last for a while longer.

A poll released Tuesday by Canadian outlets DART & Maru/Blue indicate a vast majority of Canadians do not want their country’s border with the United States reopened yet. Of the 1,512 randomly selected Canadian adults, 83% of them want the border to stay closed, poll results show.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 19, 2020, 09:50:27 PM

Add the state of Washington to having over-inflated death numbers.  This time an audit showed 13% too high.  Starting to notice a common link to all of these states.

https://www.freedomfoundation.com/washington/washington-state-over-reporting-covid-19-deaths/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 19, 2020, 10:04:50 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 19, 2020, 09:50:27 PM

Add the state of Washington to having over-inflated death numbers.  This time an audit showed 13% too high.  Starting to notice a common link to all of these states.

https://www.freedomfoundation.com/washington/washington-state-over-reporting-covid-19-deaths/

1. That's not really what the data shows. It shows.
2. The authors of this study are a branch of the Evergreen Freedom Foundation, a conservative group funded by the Koch and DeVos families.  Not exactly an objective organization 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 19, 2020, 10:18:18 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 19, 2020, 10:04:50 PM

1. That's not really what the data shows. It shows.
2. The authors of this study are a branch of the Evergreen Freedom Foundation, a conservative group funded by the Koch and DeVos families.  Not exactly an objective organization

What does the data show if it doesn’t show that 13% of deaths attributed to Covid had no mention of Covid on death certificate. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 19, 2020, 10:19:09 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 19, 2020, 09:50:27 PM

Add the state of Washington to having over-inflated death numbers.  This time an audit showed 13% too high.  Starting to notice a common link to all of these states.

https://www.freedomfoundation.com/washington/washington-state-over-reporting-covid-19-deaths/

Yes, a study by a far-right-wing outfit "proves" you're right. It isn't at all a hit-job against Inslee. No sir, no how.

Again, though, even if the entire country's deaths are 13% "over-inflated" - which they aren't, but even if they are - that's still 80K dead and counting.

Which obviously means, "We have prevailed!"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 19, 2020, 10:24:17 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 19, 2020, 10:19:09 PM

Yes, a study by a far-right-wing outfit "proves" you're right. It isn't at all a hit-job against Inslee. No sir, no how.

Again, though, even if the entire country's deaths are 13% "over-inflated" - which they aren't, but even if they are - that's still 80K dead and counting.

Which obviously means, "We have prevailed!"

This is about getting an accurate count, not who’s right or wrong.  Not sure why you’re trying to turn it into a win/lose scenario.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 19, 2020, 10:32:20 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 19, 2020, 10:24:17 PM

This is about getting an accurate count, not who’s right or wrong. 

Cool. I look forward to seeing many links from you about the under-counting of deaths coming out of other states in your endless pursuit of the truth. Seriously, I look forward to them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 19, 2020, 10:34:38 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 19, 2020, 10:18:18 PM

What does the data show if it doesn’t show that 13% of deaths attributed to Covid had no mention of Covid on death certificate.

That's not what you said in the post I responded to.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 19, 2020, 10:43:09 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 19, 2020, 10:34:38 PM

That's not what you said in the post I responded to.

Huh? The link was included on the post you responded to showing exactly that. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 19, 2020, 10:45:38 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 19, 2020, 10:32:20 PM

Cool. I look forward to seeing many links from you about the under-counting of deaths coming out of other states in your endless pursuit of the truth. Seriously, I look forward to them.

If there is a link with data showing that I’m all in for sharing it and discussing it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 19, 2020, 10:54:56 PM

Possible delay in restarting Premier League?

Coronavirus: Watford and Burnley confirm positive tests

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/52726278

The league had previously identified 12 June for matches to possibly start again, but there is now an expectation this will need to be pushed back.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 20, 2020, 06:15:31 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 19, 2020, 10:45:38 PM

If there is a link with data showing that I’m all in for sharing it and discussing it.

A few have already been provided, I believe, including from Georgia and Florida. I guess one "side" is in charge of sharing those, and you are in charge of your "side."

But it's not about "who's right or wrong."

Meanwhile, from the NYT ...

Some churches that had resumed in-person gatherings are developing a case of reopener’s remorse. Holy Ghost Catholic Church in Houston, for instance, closed again after a priest who had pneumonia died and five leaders tested positive last weekend for the coronavirus. At a single church in Arkansas, 35 of the 92 people who had attended over a six-day period later tested positive for the virus, and three died, according to a report released yesterday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

I feel very sad for all of these victims. The rush to re-open is costing lives.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 20, 2020, 07:15:04 AM

Not to take away from the pissing matches of who's more wrong but I thought we might circle back to where we are in our knowledge of the virus(and acknowledge we've made a ton of progress since March which was one of the main outcomes of the lockdown). So I tried to make a list of things we now know* about the virus and how prevent and/or treat it

-General virus transmission rules apply so minimize duration with infected person, maximize distance, wash hands as much as possible, and outside is much preferred to inside
-Infected people who wear masks reduce transmissions, transmissions are significantly reduced if all parties wear masks
-This virus tends to transmit in "large batches" meaning that a casual encounter with a person at a store is a lot less likely to cause infection(especially in an exponential growth style) than are large events like church service, concert, etc
-the contagion period seems to be two days prior to symptoms and 2-3 days after symptoms start
-the preponderance of severe cases is in the elderly and/or those with significant comorbidities
-Once you get Covid you very likely have immunity for a period of time(length is unknown at this time)
-early intervention in the form of intebation is to be avoided
-lay patients prone as much as possible and watch for clotting events
-Vaccine of some sort is very probable to happen the only question is how much immunity does it confer and how long does it lost (is it flu vaccine effective or MMR vaccine effective). The other question is when it would be available
-UV light kills the virus on surfaces

What did I miss, anything I got really wrong? My point here is we really are starting to get a handle on this virus and that should guide as we go forward. We also need to let go of our "priors" we developed in February/March when we were just learning of this virus(prime example is Fauci saying masks don't matter in March, we know a lot more now).

*I mean this to be probably known or scientifically verified, we don't know a lot with 100% certainty....but we can't make decisions on just the 100% certain info

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 20, 2020, 07:55:53 AM

Fair.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 20, 2020, 08:00:50 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 20, 2020, 07:15:04 AM

Not to take away from the pissing matches of who's more wrong but I thought we might circle back to where we are in our knowledge of the virus(and acknowledge we've made a ton of progress since March which was one of the main outcomes of the lockdown). So I tried to make a list of things we now know* about the virus and how prevent and/or treat it

-General virus transmission rules apply so minimize duration with infected person, maximize distance, wash hands as much as possible, and outside is much preferred to inside
-Infected people who wear masks reduce transmissions, transmissions are significantly reduced if all parties wear masks
-This virus tends to transmit in "large batches" meaning that a casual encounter with a person at a store is a lot less likely to cause infection(especially in an exponential growth style) than are large events like church service, concert, etc
-the contagion period seems to be two days prior to symptoms and 2-3 days after symptoms start
-the preponderance of severe cases is in the elderly and/or those with significant comorbidities
-Once you get Covid you very likely have immunity for a period of time(length is unknown at this time)
-early intervention in the form of intebation is to be avoided
-lay patients prone as much as possible and watch for clotting events
-Vaccine of some sort is very probable to happen the only question is how much immunity does it confer and how long does it lost (is it flu vaccine effective or MMR vaccine effective). The other question is when it would be available
-UV light kills the virus on surfaces

What did I miss, anything I got really wrong? My point here is we really are starting to get a handle on this virus and that should guide as we go forward. We also need to let go of our "priors" we developed in February/March when we were just learning of this virus(prime example is Fauci saying masks don't matter in March, we know a lot more now).

*I mean this to be probably known or scientifically verified, we don't know a lot with 100% certainty....but we can't make decisions on just the 100% certain info

Good list. Thanks.

Unfortunately, even facts lead to pissing matches. For example, masks have become a political issue.

But yes, good list.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on May 20, 2020, 08:10:36 AM

Quote from: MU82 on May 20, 2020, 08:00:50 AM

Good list. Thanks.

Unfortunately, even facts lead to pissing matches. For example, masks have become a political issue.

But yes, good list.

God I wish the banhammer would come down on you.....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 20, 2020, 08:11:53 AM

Quote from: MU82 on May 20, 2020, 08:00:50 AM

Good list. Thanks.

Unfortunately, even facts lead to pissing matches. For example, masks have become a political issue.

But yes, good list.

Agreed on all counts. It is unfortunate when people who try to get out facts (and dispute “alternative facts”) are accused of engaging in a “pissing match,” but I guess that’s where our country is right now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 20, 2020, 08:19:19 AM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on May 20, 2020, 08:10:36 AM

God I wish the banhammer would come down on you.....

Start your own site.  You can hammer down whoever you want, which you seem to like telling the moderators to do.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 20, 2020, 08:21:47 AM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on May 20, 2020, 08:10:36 AM

God I wish the banhammer would come down on you.....

You have read and participated in this thread.

My statement, "Masks have become a political issue," is approximately the 5,233rd-most political comment in this thread.

I do get how facts can be annoying, though.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 20, 2020, 08:25:49 AM

Quote from: MU82 on May 20, 2020, 08:00:50 AM

Good list. Thanks.

Unfortunately, even facts lead to pissing matches. For example, masks have become a political issue.

But yes, good list.

I get why masks are "controversial", part of it is the media is bad at identifying when priors have changed. I'm not even sure if it's a fixable thing, but once a "fact" is out there, in this cause the authorities saying early on not to wear masks in public, it is tough to walk it back.

I mean it's somewhat hip to make fun of the "neanderthals refusing to wear masks" but I can also see how/why people come to a conclusion like that....if they are predisposed to distrust government and are told not to wear masks then everything is shut down (government overreach to them) and then told to wear masks it becomes an easy flashpoint for resistance.

Honestly, part of the reason I made that post is that I feel like in this thread and in the US generally we need a reset. Let's all stop and think about what we actually know and what stuff we have to leave in the past. We need to reset our priors and reevaluate our going forward based on today not what we think we know from the past.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 20, 2020, 08:38:49 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 20, 2020, 08:25:49 AM

I get why masks are "controversial", part of it is the media is bad at identifying when priors have changed. I'm not even sure if it's a fixable thing, but once a "fact" is out there, in this cause the authorities saying early on not to wear masks in public, it is tough to walk it back.

I mean it's somewhat hip to make fun of the "neanderthals refusing to wear masks" but I can also see how/why people come to a conclusion like that....if they are predisposed to distrust government and are told not to wear masks then everything is shut down (government overreach to them) and then told to wear masks it becomes an easy flashpoint for resistance.

Honestly, part of the reason I made that post is that I feel like in this thread and in the US generally we need a reset. Let's all stop and think about what we actually know and what stuff we have to leave in the past. We need to reset our priors and reevaluate our going forward based on today not what we think we know from the past.

Fair point. To add to your list:

* while more robust trials are ongoing, currently available data does not indicate that hydroxychloroquine has a statistically significant benefit on morbidity or mortality.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2012410

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2766117

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on May 20, 2020, 08:54:52 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 20, 2020, 08:25:49 AM

I mean it's somewhat hip to make fun of the "neanderthals refusing to wear masks" but I can also see how/why people come to a conclusion like that....if they are predisposed to distrust government and are told not to wear masks then everything is shut down (government overreach to them) and then told to wear masks it becomes an easy flashpoint for resistance.

And the first sentence is making them dig their heels in further.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 20, 2020, 09:06:59 AM

Side note, I have discovered that the career path of house husband is 100% not a thing I'm doing in "normal times".

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 20, 2020, 09:10:49 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 20, 2020, 08:25:49 AM

I get why masks are "controversial", part of it is the media is bad at identifying when priors have changed. I'm not even sure if it's a fixable thing, but once a "fact" is out there, in this cause the authorities saying early on not to wear masks in public, it is tough to walk it back.

I mean it's somewhat hip to make fun of the "neanderthals refusing to wear masks" but I can also see how/why people come to a conclusion like that....if they are predisposed to distrust government and are told not to wear masks then everything is shut down (government overreach to them) and then told to wear masks it becomes an easy flashpoint for resistance.

Honestly, part of the reason I made that post is that I feel like in this thread and in the US generally we need a reset. Let's all stop and think about what we actually know and what stuff we have to leave in the past. We need to reset our priors and reevaluate our going forward based on today not what we think we know from the past.

mu03:

I appreciate your effort and your tone, and I will step aside for awhile and see what transpires.

Have a great day!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 20, 2020, 09:11:53 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 20, 2020, 08:25:49 AM

I get why masks are "controversial", part of it is the media is bad at identifying when priors have changed. I'm not even sure if it's a fixable thing, but once a "fact" is out there, in this cause the authorities saying early on not to wear masks in public, it is tough to walk it back.

I mean it's somewhat hip to make fun of the "neanderthals refusing to wear masks" but I can also see how/why people come to a conclusion like that....if they are predisposed to distrust government and are told not to wear masks then everything is shut down (government overreach to them) and then told to wear masks it becomes an easy flashpoint for resistance.

Honestly, part of the reason I made that post is that I feel like in this thread and in the US generally we need a reset. Let's all stop and think about what we actually know and what stuff we have to leave in the past. We need to reset our priors and reevaluate our going forward based on today not what we think we know from the past.

Thanks for this, i was thinking about starting a new thread called Virus Facts - but let’s see if your effort sticks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 20, 2020, 09:22:16 AM

As our understanding has evolved, it has become clear that masks are a useful tool in preventing spread.  Even cloth masks have some value, though clearly surgical masks and N95s are better.    Just wear the masks and a whole lot of transmission is prevented.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 20, 2020, 09:23:49 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 20, 2020, 08:25:49 AM

I mean it's somewhat hip to make fun of the "neanderthals refusing to wear masks" but I can also see how/why people come to a conclusion like that....if they are predisposed to distrust government and are told not to wear masks then everything is shut down (government overreach to them) and then told to wear masks it becomes an easy flashpoint for resistance.

I understand and appreciate the point you're trying to make, but have we really come to the point where we can't point out (and yes, even shame) bad and harmful behavior because we fear that those engaging in it will dig in their heels. When did appeasing bad actors at the expense of public health become a thing?
Not wearing a mask is selfish because it puts your fellow citizens at risk of  a dangerous disease. We shouldn't be afraid of saying that. There's nothing wrong with telling people they're putting their fellow citizens at risk. We're not afraid of telling people not to drink and drive because it may cause them to drink and drive more.

And - at the risk of a pissing match, which I honestly don't want - the problem isn't the media" doing a poor job of identifying when priors have changed. I suspect everything you've included in your excellent list of what we now know about the virus is something you learned through "the media."
The problem is certain voices in the media - and in our political leadership - are sending mixed messages, or even encouraging bad behavior, for their own gain.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 20, 2020, 09:26:25 AM

I don't see this turning out well for the country. Instead of following the advice of CDC and peer-reviewed data, the White House is actively seeking out doctors who agree with his views, with a promise of TV time if they say the right thing. Note: this article is from the politically-central Associated Press.

Trump allies lining up doctors to prescribe rapid reopening

https://apnews.com/4ee1a3a8d631b454f645b2a8d9597de7

Republican political operatives are recruiting “extremely pro-Trump” doctors to go on television to prescribe reviving the U.S. economy as quickly as possible, without waiting to meet safety benchmarks proposed by the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to slow the spread of the new coronavirus.

The plan was discussed in a May 11 conference call with a senior staffer for the Trump reelection campaign organized by CNP Action, an affiliate of the GOP-aligned Council for National Policy. A leaked recording of the hourlong call was provided to The Associated Press by the Center for Media and Democracy, a progressive watchdog group.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 20, 2020, 09:30:25 AM

Quote from: tower912 on May 20, 2020, 09:22:16 AM

As our understanding has evolved, it has become clear that masks are a useful tool in preventing spread.  Even cloth masks have some value, though clearly surgical masks and N95s are better.    Just wear the masks and a whole lot of transmission is prevented.

Agreed. I suspect this has become a "political issue" solely because POTUS refuses to wear one, despite the evidence showing that they reduce transmission. If he started to wear one today (and state unequivocally that it is the right thing for all Americans to do), it would cease to be a political issue tomorrow.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 20, 2020, 09:37:07 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 20, 2020, 09:26:25 AM

I don't see this turning out well for the country. Instead of following the advice of CDC and peer-reviewed data, the White House is actively seeking out doctors who agree with his views, with a promise of TV time if they say the right thing. Note: this article is from the politically-central Associated Press.

Trump allies lining up doctors to prescribe rapid reopening

https://apnews.com/4ee1a3a8d631b454f645b2a8d9597de7

Republican political operatives are recruiting “extremely pro-Trump” doctors to go on television to prescribe reviving the U.S. economy as quickly as possible, without waiting to meet safety benchmarks proposed by the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to slow the spread of the new coronavirus.

The plan was discussed in a May 11 conference call with a senior staffer for the Trump reelection campaign organized by CNP Action, an affiliate of the GOP-aligned Council for National Policy. A leaked recording of the hourlong call was provided to The Associated Press by the Center for Media and Democracy, a progressive watchdog group.

They are taking the chicos "500 doctors" route.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 20, 2020, 09:40:03 AM

Timberwolves, Mayo Clinic to lead leaguewide coronavirus study

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29197269/timberwolves-mayo-clinic-lead-league-wide-coronavirus-study

When Timberwolves president Gersson Rosas set about assembling a front-office staff in Minnesota in 2019, he was insistent that the group include a doctor who specialized in medicine and technology. Rosas was looking for someone analytical who could help the Timberwolves use data to optimize the health of players.

Rosas eventually hired Dr. Robby Sikka, who has a background in anesthesiology, sports medicine research and returning to play after injury.

"Whenever I got a job, that was the type of guy that I wanted in my front office," Rosas said. "He allows us to attack blind spots that are critical to our players."

At the time, Rosas could not have predicted that Sikka's job would include combating a virus that spiraled into a global pandemic and caused the NBA to shut down. Now, Sikka and the Mayo Clinic -- an academic medical center headquartered in Rochester, Minnesota -- are spearheading a leaguewide study that aims to establish what percentage of NBA players, coaches, executives and staff have developed antibodies to the coronavirus.

The initiative, which is supported by the league office and the players' association, is expected to have the participation of all 30 teams.

-----------

Kudos to the MLB and now the NBA for actively seeking hard data to inform any plans to resume play.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 20, 2020, 10:07:25 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 20, 2020, 09:23:49 AM

I understand and appreciate the point you're trying to make, but have we really come to the point where we can't point out (and yes, even shame) bad and harmful behavior because we fear that those engaging in it will dig in their heels. When did appeasing bad actors at the expense of public health become a thing?
Not wearing a mask is selfish because it puts your fellow citizens at risk of  a dangerous disease. We shouldn't be afraid of saying that. There's nothing wrong with telling people they're putting their fellow citizens at risk. We're not afraid of telling people not to drink and drive because it may cause them to drink and drive more.

And - at the risk of a pissing match, which I honestly don't want - the problem isn't the media" doing a poor job of identifying when priors have changed. I suspect everything you've included in your excellent list of what we now know about the virus is something you learned through "the media."
The problem is certain voices in the media - and in our political leadership - are sending mixed messages, or even encouraging bad behavior, for their own gain.

Overly snarky admittedly, but we think shaming people who ultimately view shame like as a badge of honor is going to work?? Culturally we've gotten better about adjusting communications and targeting messaging around "triggers" and sensitivities on the left, why would we not do that for those on the right as well? It comes back to the phrase "winning friends and influencing enemies", the shame approach doesn't work for either. We need the "bad actors" to join us and poking them in the eye doesn't feel like the correct approach to me.

As to the info and the media, actually the list I generated was because I was watching general media and not seeing the info I wanted nor presented in a way that made sense to me. I dug up articles, studies, looked up subject matter experts on twitter(they exist, not just keyboard warriors ;D), etc to educate myself and that was the light bulb moment where I said we just aren't putting out the right info with the right context and walking back some of the early hysteria and sensationalism.

I totally but that the hyper partisan environment makes this tough, especially as it's an election year but that means the media needs to step up even more to get facts out, be level headed, and keep the opinion to the opinion pages

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 20, 2020, 10:09:37 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 20, 2020, 07:15:04 AM

Not to take away from the pissing matches of who's more wrong but I thought we might circle back to where we are in our knowledge of the virus(and acknowledge we've made a ton of progress since March which was one of the main outcomes of the lockdown). So I tried to make a list of things we now know* about the virus and how prevent and/or treat it

-General virus transmission rules apply so minimize duration with infected person, maximize distance, wash hands as much as possible, and outside is much preferred to inside
-Infected people who wear masks reduce transmissions, transmissions are significantly reduced if all parties wear masks
-This virus tends to transmit in "large batches" meaning that a casual encounter with a person at a store is a lot less likely to cause infection(especially in an exponential growth style) than are large events like church service, concert, etc
-the contagion period seems to be two days prior to symptoms and 2-3 days after symptoms start
-the preponderance of severe cases is in the elderly and/or those with significant comorbidities
-Once you get Covid you very likely have immunity for a period of time(length is unknown at this time)
-early intervention in the form of intebation is to be avoided
-lay patients prone as much as possible and watch for clotting events
-Vaccine of some sort is very probable to happen the only question is how much immunity does it confer and how long does it lost (is it flu vaccine effective or MMR vaccine effective). The other question is when it would be available
-UV light kills the virus on surfaces

What did I miss, anything I got really wrong? My point here is we really are starting to get a handle on this virus and that should guide as we go forward. We also need to let go of our "priors" we developed in February/March when we were just learning of this virus(prime example is Fauci saying masks don't matter in March, we know a lot more now).

*I mean this to be probably known or scientifically verified, we don't know a lot with 100% certainty....but we can't make decisions on just the 100% certain info

With the exception of the contagion period, and immunity. Essentially all this was known in February. The actual new things we know.

-Children suffer potentially deadly illnesses.
-Asymptomatic/mild symptom individuals can suffer catastrophic strokes or heart attacks. Including in young otherwise healthy individuals.
-There are a larger number of asymptomatic individuals. They are a significant driver of the spread.
-Cats can readily spread infection.

Regarding masks. When the "they don't help" news was out. I posted that people at the CDC were admitting, that caution was to try to stop people buying all the N95's because hot zones were unable to get any. They didn't actually think they didn't have an effect, it was a political decision to protect front line workers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 20, 2020, 10:26:50 AM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on May 20, 2020, 08:10:36 AM

God I wish the banhammer would come down on you.....

Careful, the scoop intelligentsia will label you a snowflake.   ::)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 20, 2020, 10:30:08 AM

Quote from: forgetful on May 20, 2020, 10:09:37 AM

With the exception of the contagion period, and immunity. Essentially all this was known in February. The actual new things we know.

-Children suffer potentially deadly illnesses.
-Asymptomatic/mild symptom individuals can suffer catastrophic strokes or heart attacks. Including in young otherwise healthy individuals.
-There are a larger number of asymptomatic individuals. They are a significant driver of the spread.
-Cats can readily spread infection.

Regarding masks. When the "they don't help" news was out. I posted that people at the CDC were admitting, that caution was to try to stop people buying all the N95's because hot zones were unable to get any. They didn't actually think they didn't have an effect, it was a political decision to protect front line workers.

1. We didn't "know" those things in February, there were a lot of conflict reports in the media, hell within this thread. That's why I called them out, they are by and large definitive now

2. Those items are suspected, but they certainly aren't definitive. Take the children, I've seen conflicting reports about the severity of the cases themselves versus being exasperated because parents are afraid to take them in to doctors until they are already critical. I think the statement of "children aren't immune and there may be a severity impact" makes sense. As to the spread I left off the asymptomatic because there are starting to be studies that indicate that majority of spread is A) pre-symptomatic and/or actual symptomatic folks and B) super spread events where the combination of time spent and volume of people creates the actual spread. So making a run to target where a "spreader" happens to be is relatively low risk versus say a church service or a small concert or something that. Still very unclear though so that's why I left it off

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 20, 2020, 10:42:39 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 20, 2020, 10:07:25 AM

Overly snarky admittedly, but we think shaming people who ultimately view shame like as a badge of honor is going to work?? Culturally we've gotten better about adjusting communications and targeting messaging around "triggers" and sensitivities on the left, why would we not do that for those on the right as well? It comes back to the phrase "winning friends and influencing enemies", the shame approach doesn't work for either. We need the "bad actors" to join us and poking them in the eye doesn't feel like the correct approach to me.

Honestly, what makes you think the people refusing to wear marks because "Freedom!" or marching on state capitals with guns would be persuaded if only everyone were nicer to them?

The shame and insults come only after these people have rejected efforts at reason through data and scientific recommendations. It's not as if the sentiment goes from "Don't wear a mask" to "You're a jerk if you don't wear a mask" in an instant. The scientific community issues a recommendation based on the best evidence before it, and political leaders enact guidelines intended to promote public health and ask people to follow them.

The "you're a jerk" part comes only after these people selfishly decide their personal politics - and can't we admit that's what this all about? - are more important than the health and well-being of their neighbors. I just can't get on board with the idea of coddling stupid and selfish people who are putting the health of others at risk - not just because they don't deserve it, but because it won't work.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 20, 2020, 10:51:18 AM

I think it's easy to say we should be nicer to them And respect their till one of them who contracts it has spent 14 days breathing and sneezing on everybody around them causing a multitude of people to get sick. Maybe one dies, maybe one has lasting lung damage. I wonder if then we'd still have that same let's be nicer and respectful of their viewpoint that wearing a mask is akin to nazi Germany.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 20, 2020, 10:55:01 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 20, 2020, 10:42:39 AM

Honestly, what makes you think the people refusing to wear marks because "Freedom!" or marching on state capitals with guns would be persuaded if only everyone were nicer to them?

The shame and insults come only after these people have rejected efforts at reason through data and scientific recommendations. It's not as if the sentiment goes from "Don't wear a mask" to "You're a jerk if you don't wear a mask" in an instant. The scientific community issues a recommendation based on the best evidence before it, and political leaders enact guidelines intended to promote public health and ask people to follow them.

The "you're a jerk" part comes only after these people selfishly decide their personal politics - and can't we admit that's what this all about? - are more important than the health and well-being of their neighbors. I just can't get on board with the idea of coddling stupid and selfish people who are putting the health of others at risk - not just because they don't deserve it, but because it won't work.

Just look at this thread(like 100 pages ago) that turn happens fast. And honestly, the first significant peer study of mask impact on transmission of Coronavirus didnt come out until 10 days ago and the mask debate kicked off long before that so the true science was lacking. Yes it 100% made sense that masks would make a difference but when you get mixed messages I see where people can come to the wrong conclusion.

Factor in that everything Trump does/says is either celebrated or hated makes all of this worse. The mask thing just turned into the 9,438th front in the political war being waged right now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 20, 2020, 10:56:22 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on May 20, 2020, 10:51:18 AM

I think it's easy to say we should be nicer to them And respect their till one of them who contracts it has spent 14 days breathing and sneezing on everybody around them causing a multitude of people to get sick. Maybe one dies, maybe one has lasting lung damage. I wonder if then we'd still have that same let's be nicer and respectful of their viewpoint that wearing a mask is akin to nazi Germany.

I got an idea, let's make them wear masks

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 20, 2020, 11:01:25 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 20, 2020, 10:30:08 AM

1. We didn't "know" those things in February, there were a lot of conflict reports in the media, hell within this thread. That's why I called them out, they are by and large definitive now

2. Those items are suspected, but they certainly aren't definitive. Take the children, I've seen conflicting reports about the severity of the cases themselves versus being exasperated because parents are afraid to take them in to doctors until they are already critical. I think the statement of "children aren't immune and there may be a severity impact" makes sense. As to the spread I left off the asymptomatic because there are starting to be studies that indicate that majority of spread is A) pre-symptomatic and/or actual symptomatic folks and B) super spread events where the combination of time spent and volume of people creates the actual spread. So making a run to target where a "spreader" happens to be is relatively low risk versus say a church service or a small concert or something that. Still very unclear though so that's why I left it off

On (1) it depends where you looked in January and February. Yeah, the media didn't know it, because frankly the media is a lagging source of information. All of it was readily published in primary medical/scientific literature. I guess, because I read a good bit of that, I was aware of it fairly early.

On (2) we certainly know it is true, which is why there are extensive warnings by the medical community. Kawasaki's, is always a severe disease that is fatal unless addressed very quickly. It progresses extremely rapidly, and manifests in weird ways, which sometimes delays treatment.

I think a difficult part is what is called "asymptomatic." The phrase is very liberally used. So a person with a light cough, is usually considered "asymptomatic," I think you and some others would call them a "symptomatic spreader," both are reasonable statements. Similarly, some patients have pneumonia, but don't even know it, because they have no outwardly obvious symptoms. So are they "symptomatic" or "asymptomatic". What I'm saying, here, is we agree, but the language complicates the interpretation.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 20, 2020, 11:01:47 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 20, 2020, 10:55:01 AM

Just look at this thread(like 100 pages ago) that turn happens fast. And honestly, the first significant peer study of mask impact on transmission of Coronavirus didnt come out until 10 days ago and the mask debate kicked off long before that so the true science was lacking. Yes it 100% made sense that masks would make a difference but when you get mixed messages I see where people can come to the wrong conclusion.

Factor in that everything Trump does/says is either celebrated or hated makes all of this worse. The mask thing just turned into the 9,438th front in the political war being waged right now.

eng03 ... you may be 100 percent correct. Maybe an ongoing gentler approach is the answer.
But I just can't buy the idea that the reason these people aren't wearing masks is because of the earlier confusion or mixed messages. They're not wearing masks as a political statement.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 20, 2020, 11:07:57 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 20, 2020, 11:01:47 AM

eng03 ... you may be 100 percent correct. Maybe an ongoing gentler approach is the answer.
But I just can't buy the idea that the reason these people aren't wearing masks is because of the earlier confusion or mixed messages. They're not wearing masks as a political statement.

I 100% there is at least a large segment that are doing it as a political statement and you would never get 100% support no matter what you tried. I'm just saying it becomes less of a political statement if there is less push back. People fight to fight sometimes, why give them the fight they want?

I guess my thesis is, that A) we'd never get 100% compliance, but B) a kinder, gentler approach yields more compliance than a full throated defense and shame campaign does. I definitely could be wrong on both, but that's more than debate I want to have then anything.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 20, 2020, 11:08:56 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 20, 2020, 10:42:39 AM

Honestly, what makes you think the people refusing to wear marks because "Freedom!" or marching on state capitals with guns would be persuaded if only everyone were nicer to them?

The shame and insults come only after these people have rejected efforts at reason through data and scientific recommendations. It's not as if the sentiment goes from "Don't wear a mask" to "You're a jerk if you don't wear a mask" in an instant. The scientific community issues a recommendation based on the best evidence before it, and political leaders enact guidelines intended to promote public health and ask people to follow them.

The "you're a jerk" part comes only after these people selfishly decide their personal politics - and can't we admit that's what this all about? - are more important than the health and well-being of their neighbors. I just can't get on board with the idea of coddling stupid and selfish people who are putting the health of others at risk - not just because they don't deserve it, but because it won't work.

If we were only nicer to this Colorado guy, he'd listen to reason, right?
(https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.flyertalk.com-vbulletin/800x400/1589977469_8247c16eb2c789a3da0241deab880bc9092eb5f3.jpeg)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 20, 2020, 11:19:30 AM

Quote from: forgetful on May 20, 2020, 11:01:25 AM

On (1) it depends where you looked in January and February. Yeah, the media didn't know it, because frankly the media is a lagging source of information. All of it was readily published in primary medical/scientific literature. I guess, because I read a good bit of that, I was aware of it fairly early.

On (2) we certainly know it is true, which is why there are extensive warnings by the medical community. Kawasaki's, is always a severe disease that is fatal unless addressed very quickly. It progresses extremely rapidly, and manifests in weird ways, which sometimes delays treatment.

I think a difficult part is what is called "asymptomatic." The phrase is very liberally used. So a person with a light cough, is usually considered "asymptomatic," I think you and some others would call them a "symptomatic spreader," both are reasonable statements. Similarly, some patients have pneumonia, but don't even know it, because they have no outwardly obvious symptoms. So are they "symptomatic" or "asymptomatic". What I'm saying, here, is we agree, but the language complicates the interpretation.

Let me re-articulate 1 because I think we're in strong agreement, I just didnt explain well. Over the last several months, the narrative within the media has felt like somehow Coronavirus is unique as a virus,  obviously it is unique to some extent, but the feel has been that even the base understanding of how viruses transmit could be undercut by this new virus. What I saying is that the fundamentals are still the fundamentals but that feels like it's been lost in the breathless and sometimes sensational reporting. I mean, we had panic about beaches and parks being open, the fundamentals would say those are some of the safest places to have open.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 20, 2020, 11:22:09 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on May 20, 2020, 11:08:56 AM

If we were only nicer to this Colorado guy, he'd listen to reason, right?
(https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.flyertalk.com-vbulletin/800x400/1589977469_8247c16eb2c789a3da0241deab880bc9092eb5f3.jpeg)

Neat, you've found a raging bigot that you can then paint anyone that has any position similar to his(100% this is a dude right?) with the same brush. My point is never you can get everyone but that you can get more people to your side if you're just not a d!ck about it

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on May 20, 2020, 11:30:22 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 20, 2020, 10:30:08 AM

1. We didn't "know" those things in February, there were a lot of conflict reports in the media, hell within this thread. That's why I called them out, they are by and large definitive now

2. Those items are suspected, but they certainly aren't definitive. Take the children, I've seen conflicting reports about the severity of the cases themselves versus being exasperated because parents are afraid to take them in to doctors until they are already critical. I think the statement of "children aren't immune and there may be a severity impact" makes sense. As to the spread I left off the asymptomatic because there are starting to be studies that indicate that majority of spread is A) pre-symptomatic and/or actual symptomatic folks and B) super spread events where the combination of time spent and volume of people creates the actual spread. So making a run to target where a "spreader" happens to be is relatively low risk versus say a church service or a small concert or something that. Still very unclear though so that's why I left it off

To point B Fauci brought up in early April the biggest way to spread was to be in direct contact for an extended period of time.  He said that was the reason many nurses got it at first cause they were in contact with a patient before it was known they had the virus.

It makes complete sense why you do not see target or walmart or your local grocery stores shutting down cause of a huge outbreak among the employees.

with that said I think schools and sporting events will go on this fall with fans and student in attendance.  Schools will need to get creative in the way they set up classrooms and conduct school.  As for games I do not think we will see a full stadium until 2021. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 20, 2020, 11:31:58 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 20, 2020, 11:22:09 AM

Neat, you've found a raging bigot that you can then paint anyone that has any position similar to his(100% this is a dude right?) with the same brush. My point is never you can get everyone but that you can get more people to your side if you're just not a d!ck about it

You mean like those lovely open protesters? Please. The majority of the people that don't want any restrictions or wearing of masks are not going to have their minds changed unless they themselves are hospitalized with the virus.

I think this guy is about the only way to change minds of the openers. Coronavirus Florida: Jupiter Farms man was virus skeptic until it infected him
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20200518/coronavirus-florida-jupiter-farms-man-was-virus-skeptic-until-it-infected-him

Brian Lee Hitchens was a coronavirus skeptic until the illness led him to be hospitalized at Palm Beach Gardens Medical Center. Now the Jupiter Farms resident wants people to know the virus is dangerous and real. He has taken to Facebook to share his experience.

He told The Palm Beach Post on Monday that he doesn’t understand how coronavirus deniers who in past weeks protested shelter-in-place measures still believe the virus — which has kept him hospitalized since April 19 — is a hoax.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on May 20, 2020, 11:36:40 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 20, 2020, 10:42:39 AM

Honestly, what makes you think the people refusing to wear marks because "Freedom!" or marching on state capitals with guns would be persuaded if only everyone were nicer to them?

I hate wearing a mask. It's uncomfortable. It makes me incredibly anxious. I try to avoid situations where I'd have to wear one, if possible. And I'll admit, there have been times where I have very quickly popped and out of a place without wearing one.

I can't stand the President, or the "freedom fighters" that show up at state capitals. It has nothing to do with my politics. By taking the tone you do, you lump everyone into one group or the other. And you alienate people who may not be perfect, but are far from the problem.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 20, 2020, 11:46:01 AM

Quote from: MUfan12 on May 20, 2020, 11:36:40 AM

I hate wearing a mask. It's uncomfortable. It makes me incredibly anxious. I try to avoid situations where I'd have to wear one, if possible. And I'll admit, there have been times where I have very quickly popped and out of a place without wearing one.

I can't stand the President, or the "freedom fighters" that show up at state capitals. It has nothing to do with my politics. By taking the tone you do, you lump everyone into one group or the other. And you alienate people who may not be perfect, but are far from the problem.

Bandana, scarf, pull up a hoodie, doesn't need to be a mask if you aren't comfortable with it. It's not for your benefit but those around you. The rest of your point makes sense regarding lumping people all together.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on May 20, 2020, 11:52:10 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on May 20, 2020, 11:46:01 AM

Bandana, scarf, pull up a hoodie, doesn't need to be a mask if you aren't comfortable with it. It's not for your benefit but those around you. The rest of your point makes sense regarding lumping people all together.

Thanks, I hadn't heard that anywhere before.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 20, 2020, 11:53:20 AM

Quote from: MUfan12 on May 20, 2020, 11:36:40 AM

I hate wearing a mask. It's uncomfortable. It makes me incredibly anxious. I try to avoid situations where I'd have to wear one, if possible. And I'll admit, there have been times where I have very quickly popped and out of a place without wearing one.

I can't stand the President, or the "freedom fighters" that show up at state capitals. It has nothing to do with my politics. By taking the tone you do, you lump everyone into one group or the other. And you alienate people who may not be perfect, but are far from the problem.

I'm sorry wearing a mask makes you uncomfortable. Sincerely. I don't like it either. But I wear one because it's a minor sacrifice made for the public good. It sounds like you do the same.
My issue isn't with those who don't like wearing a mask. Most of us don't like it. My issue is with those who refuse that minor sacrifice, especially for political reasons or because they believe whacked out conspiracy theories. And I'm not alienating those people. They're alienating themselves through their choices.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 20, 2020, 11:54:09 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on May 20, 2020, 11:31:58 AM

You mean like those lovely open protesters? Please. The majority of the people that don't want any restrictions or wearing of masks are not going to have their minds changed unless they themselves are hospitalized with the virus.

I think this guy is about the only way to change minds of the openers. Coronavirus Florida: Jupiter Farms man was virus skeptic until it infected him
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20200518/coronavirus-florida-jupiter-farms-man-was-virus-skeptic-until-it-infected-him

Brian Lee Hitchens was a coronavirus skeptic until the illness led him to be hospitalized at Palm Beach Gardens Medical Center. Now the Jupiter Farms resident wants people to know the virus is dangerous and real. He has taken to Facebook to share his experience.

He told The Palm Beach Post on Monday that he doesn’t understand how coronavirus deniers who in past weeks protested shelter-in-place measures still believe the virus — which has kept him hospitalized since April 19 — is a hoax.

The audience of your message shouldn't be those open protesters, they are either astroturfers or unconvincable no matter what approach/tactic you take. Your audience are the Karen's and Karl's at home who are persuadable. Or the people in this thread that are skeptical but not unreasonable people, etc.

I can't do the math, but if 100% compliance yields 75% elimination of transmission then 80% compliance also yields a non-zero reduction in transmission. In this case, half measures make an impact too.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on May 20, 2020, 11:58:27 AM

Quote from: MU82 on May 20, 2020, 08:21:47 AM

You have read and participated in this thread.

My statement, "Masks have become a political issue," is approximately the 5,233rd-most political comment in this thread.

I do get how facts can be annoying, though.

Nah they banned chicos. they banned jb. you kept saying how they were the problem and why you do what you do.

But they are gone and you are still doing the same political crap.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 20, 2020, 11:59:59 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 20, 2020, 11:53:20 AM

I'm sorry wearing a mask makes you uncomfortable. Sincerely. I don't like it either. But I wear one because it's a minor sacrifice made for the public good. It sounds like you do the same.
My issue isn't with those who don't like wearing a mask. Most of us don't like it. My issue is with those who refuse that minor sacrifice, especially for political reasons or because they believe whacked out conspiracy theories. And I'm not alienating those people. They're alienating themselves through their choices.

Honest question, how much of the non-mask wearing public do you think fits in the bucket you are describing?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 20, 2020, 12:00:52 PM

Quote from: MUfan12 on May 20, 2020, 11:52:10 AM

Thanks, I hadn't heard that anywhere before.

Well figured I'd reinforce the concept. I was wearing an N100 respirator out, because it was all I had, if you want to talk about uncomfortable. But if I was Asymptomatic and that prevented 10 people at the grocery store or liquor store from getting it I'm happy. Those who don't wear it because it's uncomfortable or they don't have the perfect mask shouldn't go out then, plain and simple.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 20, 2020, 12:04:15 PM

When the protestors started in Michigan, I attempted to differentiate between the whack jobs looking for an excuse to carry an AR15 into the capital and those who had reasoned, principled arguments for wanting the quarantining eased.    I could make the case that certain additional industries should be allowed to open sooner and totally understood that argument.   
   With masks, it feels like the principled are aligning themselves with the goons.   Perhaps out of frustration.    I know that I tune out the overweight shaved head guy with the ZZ Top beard waving a rebel flag and his AR15 complaining he is being oppressed.   And sadly, for me, allowing that person to be the face of a movement cheapens and weakens and basically neutralizes any principled argument.

Because I  intellectually understand and have sympathy for the arguments for wanting to reopen.   Less so for not wearing masks.  And I think that if the masks were more universally embraced, opening would be easier.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 20, 2020, 12:05:11 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 20, 2020, 11:54:09 AM

The audience of your message shouldn't be those open protesters, they are either astroturfers or unconvincable no matter what approach/tactic you take. Your audience are the Karen's and Karl's at home who are persuadable. Or the people in this thread that are skeptical but not unreasonable people, etc.

I can't do the math, but if 100% compliance yields 75% elimination of transmission then 80% compliance also yields a non-zero reduction in transmission. In this case, half measures make an impact too.

But you even see it here. "They told us masks are useless, now they say wear them. Why should I listen to them now?"
Has anyone here changed their mind about wearing masks? Doubt it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 20, 2020, 12:06:07 PM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on May 20, 2020, 11:58:27 AM

Nah they banned chicos. they banned jb. you kept saying how they were the problem and why you do what you do.

But they are gone and you are still doing the same political crap.

Or, a radical idea, don't respond to it if you think its political. This message board tattletelling and scalp taking has made all the Scoop boards unreadable.

I clearly don't agree with some in this thread, which is great. I actually want my mind changed and thoughts challenged, it's how I learn. But all this "look at him look at him, hes being bad" is just an attempt at suppression.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 20, 2020, 12:07:28 PM

Quote from: tower912 on May 20, 2020, 12:04:15 PM

When the protestors started in Michigan, I attempted to differentiate between the whack jobs looking for an excuse to carry an AR15 into the capital and those who had reasoned, principled arguments for wanting the quarantining eased.    I could make the case that certain additional industries should be allowed to open sooner and totally understood that argument.   
   With masks, it feels like the principled are aligning themselves with the goons.   Perhaps out of frustration.    I know that I tune out the overweight shaved head guy with the ZZ Top beard waving a rebel flag and his AR15 complaining he is being oppressed.   And sadly, for me, allowing that person to be the face of a movement cheapens and weakens and basically neutralizes any principled argument.

Because I  intellectually understand and have sympathy for the arguments for wanting to reopen.   Less so for not wearing masks.  And I think that if the masks were more universally embraced, opening would be easier.

Loud applause emoji

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 20, 2020, 12:08:43 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on May 20, 2020, 12:05:11 PM

But you even see it here. "They told us masks are useless, now they say wear them. Why should I listen to them now?"
Has anyone here changed their mind about wearing masks? Doubt it.

Have you asked?

I will, anyone change their mind on masks? What was your position and why did it change?

Edit: I've talked people in real life into wearing a mask. People have a tough time understanding that the mask stops/limits the air droplets the virus depends on for transfer and aren't stopping things at the microscopic level. The number of people who were surprised by the basic science is pretty large....not everyone has the privilege of this board's educational background  ;D

Edit 2: it's not just the don't wear them no wait now wear them. It's the shut down itself that reinforces the resistance....."well if masks work, why did we have to shut down in the first place?" Lots of mixed messages (which I 100% agree that if Trump wore a mask this would get way better)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on May 20, 2020, 12:10:54 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on May 20, 2020, 12:00:52 PM

Well figured I'd reinforce the concept.

Wasn't necessary. My post wasn't debating the effectiveness, or reasons for wearing them. I get all that and comply when I have to.

I'm just tired of the snap judgments and broad strokes people are using, and not just here. That's all.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 20, 2020, 12:11:19 PM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on May 20, 2020, 11:58:27 AM

Nah they banned chicos. they banned jb. you kept saying how they were the problem and why you do what you do.

But they are gone and you are still doing the same political crap.

JB wasn’t banned for politics. Reasonably sure Chico’s wasn’t either.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on May 20, 2020, 12:12:29 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 20, 2020, 12:06:07 PM

Or, a radical idea, don't respond to it if you think its political. This message board tattletelling and scalp taking has made all the Scoop boards unreadable.

I clearly don't agree with some in this thread, which is great. I actually want my mind changed and thoughts challenged, it's how I learn. But all this "look at him look at him, hes being bad" is just an attempt at suppression.

I haven't responded. Until it affected me.

Mu82 and his antics have gotten the Wisconsin thread locked. Twice. He did the same thing with 2 baseball threads last year. We've banned the two other problematic children. Its time he goes as well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on May 20, 2020, 12:13:24 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 20, 2020, 12:11:19 PM

JB wasn’t banned for politics. Reasonably sure Chico’s wasn’t either.

No they were banned for their disruptive behavior and getting threads locked. Exactly like 82.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 20, 2020, 12:15:02 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 20, 2020, 11:59:59 AM

Honest question, how much of the non-mask wearing public do you think fits in the bucket you are describing?

I spoke of three buckets - those making a political statement, those buying into conspiracy theories and those who aren't comfortable with it. I believe the vast majority of the non-mask wearing public falls into one of those categories, with the latter including people who just don't like it.
And with some exceptions among the third group (i.e. those who may suffer severe facial irritation something like that), they're all being selfish.

Apparently some men don't wear masks because "it's not cool."
https://psyarxiv.com/tg7vz?mod=article_inline

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 20, 2020, 12:17:52 PM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on May 20, 2020, 12:13:24 PM

No they were banned for their disruptive behavior and getting threads locked. Exactly like 82.

JB was banned for repeatedly lobbing personal and often crude insults at other Scoopers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on May 20, 2020, 12:19:26 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 20, 2020, 12:17:52 PM

JB was banned for repeatedly lobbing personal and often crude insults at other Scoopers.

Disruptive behavior   ?-(

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 20, 2020, 12:23:22 PM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on May 20, 2020, 11:58:27 AM

Nah they banned chicos. they banned jb. you kept saying how they were the problem and why you do what you do.

But they are gone and you are still doing the same political crap.

The connection you are trying to make here is incorrect, UJ.

Look, if the mods say right this second, "OK, everybody, we've had our fun but no more political comments related to COVID-19 or it will be an instant banhammer," I would stop making political comments. Maybe you and the dozens of others who routinely make political comments on this "Child Board" would do the same.

OK ... I felt I had the right to defend myself ... now I will again refrain from commenting for awhile and continue to benefit from mu03eng's discussion with others.

UJ, I sincerely hope you have a safe, healthy, satisfying day.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 20, 2020, 12:30:14 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 20, 2020, 12:15:02 PM

I spoke of three buckets - those making a political statement, those buying into conspiracy theories and those who aren't comfortable with it. I believe the vast majority of the non-mask wearing public falls into one of those categories, with the latter including people who just don't like it.
And with some exceptions among the third group (i.e. those who may suffer severe facial irritation something like that), they're all being selfish.

Apparently some men don't wear masks because "it's not cool."
https://psyarxiv.com/tg7vz?mod=article_inline

I generally agree, and its definitely bucket 3 and a little of bucket that I'm advocating needs polite outreach to articulate the cost-benefit analysis....ultimately they are selfish but humans are inherently selfish and they might also be ignorant of the C-B

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 20, 2020, 01:03:42 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 20, 2020, 11:19:30 AM

Let me re-articulate 1 because I think we're in strong agreement, I just didnt explain well. Over the last several months, the narrative within the media has felt like somehow Coronavirus is unique as a virus,  obviously it is unique to some extent, but the feel has been that even the base understanding of how viruses transmit could be undercut by this new virus. What I saying is that the fundamentals are still the fundamentals but that feels like it's been lost in the breathless and sometimes sensational reporting. I mean, we had panic about beaches and parks being open, the fundamentals would say those are some of the safest places to have open.

You are right, we are in strong agreement. I also agree that in general beaches and parks are very safe places to be. As long as there is some degree of social distancing (that wasn't the case for beaches during spring break).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on May 20, 2020, 01:12:31 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 20, 2020, 12:08:43 PM

Have you asked?

I will, anyone change their mind on masks? What was your position and why did it change?

Edit: I've talked people in real life into wearing a mask. People have a tough time understanding that the mask stops/limits the air droplets the virus depends on for transfer and aren't stopping things at the microscopic level. The number of people who were surprised by the basic science is pretty large....not everyone has the privilege of this board's educational background  ;D

Edit 2: it's not just the don't wear them no wait now wear them. It's the shut down itself that reinforces the resistance....."well if masks work, why did we have to shut down in the first place?" Lots of mixed messages (which I 100% agree that if Trump wore a mask this would get way better)

My mind has changed. I initially didn’t wear a mask for my grocery store or Home Depot runs because there were a number of reasons that were given they didn’t work. Poor fitting, causes you to touch your face more, and material didn’t really do much unless N95. In some ways, it caused more harm than good.


I’ve changed based on guidance that it does help slow the spread. The poor fit does cause me to touch my face more, so maybe that’s just a me problem of not finding the right mask. However, when I’m in a store or running an errand, I wear it now.

 I also worry if touching the mask when taking on and off will cause me to touch Covid germs on my mask and get on my face. I’m not totally sure if that’s a reasonable fear, but has made me hesitant to put on a mask if it’s a quick trip somewhere.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on May 20, 2020, 01:20:34 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 20, 2020, 12:23:22 PM

The connection you are trying to make here is incorrect, UJ.

Maybe you and the dozens of others who routinely make political comments on this "Child Board" would do the same.

I'll stop after this. If you can find political posts I make, that would be great.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 20, 2020, 01:37:48 PM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on May 20, 2020, 01:20:34 PM

I'll stop after this. If you can find political posts I make, that would be great.

If you’ve never made political posts, I apologize for misrepresenting you. Otherwise, I’ve sent you a PM.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 20, 2020, 02:00:29 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 09, 2020, 10:42:24 AM

Once a person has reached age 75, his/her average life expectancy is another 11 years. Many of those people are very fit, especially for somebody that age. Some are still freakin' working.

My parents were still playing tennis well into their 70s. My father-in-law worked until he was 84, still living by himself at 89, and is still in decent shape at 94.

Obviously, many 75+ are not in good health, but the notion that these folks are "disposable" is sickening.

Not saying you were insinuating that, WD/chicos/hoopaloop.

Disposable?  Blood on his hands? Are you insinuating he said that?  He is pragmatic, but because he said it we're ok with it?

Andrew Cuomo May 17th  “Older people, vulnerable people, are going to die from this virus,” the governor said today when asked about whether more should have been done to protect nursing homes residents. “That is going to happen. Despite whatever you do.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on May 20, 2020, 02:01:43 PM

Quote from: cheebs09 on May 20, 2020, 01:12:31 PM

 I also worry if touching the mask when taking on and off will cause me to touch Covid germs on my mask and get on my face. I’m not totally sure if that’s a reasonable fear, but has made me hesitant to put on a mask if it’s a quick trip somewhere.

That is something i worry about as well

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 20, 2020, 02:05:24 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on May 20, 2020, 02:01:43 PM

That is something i worry about as well

Wash/sterilize your hands immediately before and after you remove your mask and you're good to go

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 20, 2020, 02:06:21 PM

Quote from: cheebs09 on May 20, 2020, 01:12:31 PM

I also worry if touching the mask when taking on and off will cause me to touch Covid germs on my mask and get on my face. I’m not totally sure if that’s a reasonable fear, but has made me hesitant to put on a mask if it’s a quick trip somewhere.

I have worried about this, but if you take your mask off then wash your hands or sanitize your hands with a wipe that worry can be lessened.  I’m pretty much resigned that the mask isn’t great at preventing me from getting sick.  But if I do it and the sick person does it, then we are more likely to have less virus floating around. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 20, 2020, 02:13:36 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 20, 2020, 02:05:24 PM

Wash/sterilize your hands immediately before and after you remove your mask and you're good to go

I keep hand sanitizer in the car and the first thing I do after taking my mask off is hand sanitize.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 20, 2020, 02:14:40 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 20, 2020, 02:05:24 PM

Wash/sterilize your hands immediately before and after you remove your mask and you're good to go

Yep. I wash my hands and then put on my mask before I even get in the car for a short errand, and then take it off only after I get back in the house and wash my hands again.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on May 20, 2020, 02:17:48 PM

Quote from: cheebs09 on May 20, 2020, 01:12:31 PM

I also worry if touching the mask when taking on and off will cause me to touch Covid germs on my mask and get on my face. I’m not totally sure if that’s a reasonable fear, but has made me hesitant to put on a mask if it’s a quick trip somewhere.

Ideally, you haven't contacted any "public" surface before putting the mask on.  Do it in your car or in a parking lot.  Then, yes, you need to make sure it's fitted such that you don't need to touch it until taking it off.  Then assuming it's not a disposable mask, you should use hand sanitizer before taking it off (after touching all the "dangerous" public surfaces). 

If you just follow those steps, getting sick BECAUSE of wearing a mask is virtually eliminated.  The danger is really in your hands, and what else you've touched.   It's unlikely COVID germs would have been "deposited" on your mask - unless you were too close to people, or one of those heathens  referenced above coughed on you :) (Joke - take it easy...)

If you can, only handle it by the elastic/straps (not often possible).   Oh and wash/disinfect your mask when possible in the times between using it.

Maybe I'll publish this as Rocky's tips to safer mask usage...

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 20, 2020, 02:13:36 PM

I keep hand sanitizer in the car and the first thing I do after taking my mask off is hand sanitize.

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 20, 2020, 02:06:21 PM

If you take your mask off then wash your hands or sanitize your hands with a wipe that worry can be lessened.

To be safe, you should really sanitize your hands before taking the mask off.  If you can't take it off without touching it a lot, then after is good too...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on May 20, 2020, 02:24:31 PM

I appreciate the feedback everyone. These are great tips. I’ve been keeping the mask mostly in my car, so may just have to get some hand sanitizer in there.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on May 20, 2020, 02:49:24 PM

Can anyone explain the people who drive with their masks on??

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 20, 2020, 02:53:26 PM

Preloading.   Going from place to place.  Acknowledging they're ugly and doing the rest of us a favor.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on May 20, 2020, 03:03:23 PM

Quote from: reinko on May 20, 2020, 02:49:24 PM

Can anyone explain the people who drive with their masks on??

For me, it’s easier to put on or off at home. Especially with washing hands.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 20, 2020, 03:05:25 PM

Quote from: reinko on May 20, 2020, 02:49:24 PM

Can anyone explain the people who drive with their masks on??

Mine is a PITA to take on and off... so when I get a good fit and I have multiple stops, I just leave it on.  Plus, then I'm not taking it off and touching it more than I need to.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on May 20, 2020, 03:30:49 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on May 20, 2020, 02:17:48 PM

If you just follow those steps, getting sick BECAUSE of wearing a mask is virtually eliminated.  The danger is really in your hands, and what else you've touched.   It's unlikely COVID germs would have been "deposited" on your mask - unless you were too close to people, or one of those heathens  referenced above coughed on you :) (Joke - take it easy...)

Not trying to start anything but if it is unlikely covid germs got on my mask would it not be unlikely covid germs got in my mouth/nose/eyes? 
I have always thought it was a lot more likely to have germs on your hands than for them to pop into you mouth. 
I have a mask that i pull up from neck that i wear so i am not against masks just asking a question

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 20, 2020, 03:54:16 PM

Quote from: reinko on May 20, 2020, 02:49:24 PM

Can anyone explain the people who drive with their masks on??

Wash hands thoroughly.
Put on mask with clean hands.
Get in car and run errands.
Get home and wash hands thoroughly.
Take off mask with clean hands.

You don’t want to touch or adjust your mask with potentially contaminated hands.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 20, 2020, 03:56:45 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on May 20, 2020, 03:30:49 PM

Not trying to start anything but if it is unlikely covid germs got on my mask would it not be unlikely covid germs got in my mouth/nose/eyes? 
I have always thought it was a lot more likely to have germs on your hands than for them to pop into you mouth. 
I have a mask that i pull up from neck that i wear so i am not against masks just asking a question

Mask is to keep your germs in, not to keep them out.  Unless you have an N95 you're wearing that is fitted properly. 

To your other point, yes, any mucous membrane can catch the virus.  The virus survives in droplets... so it is spread when people talk, sneeze, cough, or touch their hands to any droplets that contain the virus. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 20, 2020, 03:57:17 PM

This sums up a lot in one poll.  From CNN

Views of Coronavirus outbreak

Republicans
71% the worst is behind us
26% the worst is yet to come

Democrats
23% the worst is behind us
74% the worst is yet to come

Independents
44% the worst is behind us
51% the worst is yet to become


Tribalism is alive.  College graduates nearly split. Non college grads more in the worst is yet to come camp.  Women more worried than men.  Whites less worried than non-whites.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 20, 2020, 03:58:26 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 20, 2020, 03:57:17 PM

Tribalism is alive.

"Lifelong Democrat"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 20, 2020, 04:02:42 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 20, 2020, 03:57:17 PM

This sums up a lot in one poll.  From CNN

Views of Coronavirus outbreak

Republicans
71% the worst is behind us
26% the worst is yet to come

Democrats
23% the worst is behind us
74% the worst is yet to come

Independents
44% the worst is behind us
51% the worst is yet to become


Tribalism is alive.  College graduates nearly split. Non college grads more in the worst is yet to come camp.  Women more worried than men.  Whites less worried than non-whites.

I can explain the underlined in one sentence. Democrats are more likely to believe in science, whereas Republicans are more likely to believe “whatever he just said” (see, e.g., Hydroxychloroquine debate).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 20, 2020, 04:04:54 PM

Texas church closes after priest dies, members get coronavirus - https://www.foxnews.com/us/coronavirus-texas-death-church-priest-reopen

A Texas church canceled Mass services just days after reopening after a priest died and several members of his religious order tested positive for the coronavirus.
Holy Ghost Catholic Church in Houston reopened its doors on May 2, as the Lone Star State began loosening its stay-at-home orders.
But on May 14, the parish canceled all services after Father Donnell Kirchner died. Five members of the congregation tested positive for COVID-19, church officials said Monday.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 20, 2020, 04:08:21 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 20, 2020, 04:02:42 PM

I can explain the underlined in one sentence. Democrats are more likely to believe in science, whereas Republicans are more likely to believe “whatever he just said” (see, e.g., Hydroxychloroquine debate).

The science is settled, aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 20, 2020, 04:18:18 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 20, 2020, 04:02:42 PM

I can explain the underlined in one sentence. Democrats are more likely to believe in science, whereas Republicans are more likely to believe “whatever he just said” (see, e.g., Hydroxychloroquine debate).

I think this is a broad brush.  However, I think it is more a symptom of the lost opportunity to unite the country. 

Science is always evolving, but stoking the divisions and contradicting the experts employed by the executive branch nearly every step of the way has left many people exhausted (or energized I guess).  That's why I sadly have given up -- all I care about at this point is my state/region since we were told to figure it out ourselves, my friends/family and my work colleagues.  I want to care about more, but I think that ship has sailed .

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 20, 2020, 04:19:26 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 20, 2020, 09:26:25 AM

I don't see this turning out well for the country. Instead of following the advice of CDC and peer-reviewed data, the White House is actively seeking out doctors who agree with his views, with a promise of TV time if they say the right thing. Note: this article is from the politically-central Associated Press.

Trump allies lining up doctors to prescribe rapid reopening

https://apnews.com/4ee1a3a8d631b454f645b2a8d9597de7

Republican political operatives are recruiting “extremely pro-Trump” doctors to go on television to prescribe reviving the U.S. economy as quickly as possible, without waiting to meet safety benchmarks proposed by the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to slow the spread of the new coronavirus.

The plan was discussed in a May 11 conference call with a senior staffer for the Trump reelection campaign organized by CNP Action, an affiliate of the GOP-aligned Council for National Policy. A leaked recording of the hourlong call was provided to The Associated Press by the Center for Media and Democracy, a progressive watchdog group.

This is absolutely terrifying.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 20, 2020, 04:33:31 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 20, 2020, 04:18:18 PM

I think this is a broad brush.  However, I think it is more a symptom of the lost opportunity to unite the country. 

Science is always evolving, but stoking the divisions and contradicting the experts employed by the executive branch nearly every step of the way has left many people exhausted (or energized I guess).  That's why I sadly have given up -- all I care about at this point is my state/region since we were told to figure it out ourselves, my family and my work colleagues.  I want to care about more, but I think that ship has sailed .

Yes, it is a broad brush generalization, but when you read or listen to listen to the “liberal“ and “conservative“ news outlets, the distinction becomes quite apparent. And that was the case long before Trump or Covid (see the climate change debate, for example).

In response to both you and my friend Ziggy - no, the science is not settled. Far from it. That’s the nature of science. But if you read about what the well-established scientific journals are saying, you can get a pretty good sense of where things currently stand. And for hydroxychloroquine, the clear scientific consensus indicates that the risks far outweigh any benefits. If that changes and the results of ongoing clinical trials show otherwise, I will gladly advocate for its use.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 20, 2020, 04:37:49 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on May 20, 2020, 04:19:26 PM

This is absolutely terrifying.

My thought exactly. I am pretty surprised the story isn’t getting more airtime, but with all that is going on in the world, it seems that “terrifying“ barely moves the needle anymore.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on May 20, 2020, 05:01:24 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on May 20, 2020, 03:30:49 PM

Not trying to start anything but if it is unlikely covid germs got on my mask would it not be unlikely covid germs got in my mouth/nose/eyes? 
I have always thought it was a lot more likely to have germs on your hands than for them to pop into you mouth. 
I have a mask that i pull up from neck that i wear so i am not against masks just asking a question

As hards pointed out - in the non-medical setting (grocery store, etc) the masks are are mostly to keep your "droplets" from getting far away from you and reaching someone else.  Yes, they also provide some protection against germs getting in - but that depends on the type of mask you wear and how it is fitted. 

To your point about "would it not be unlikely covid germs got in my mouth/nose/eyes" - the idea here is much like "herd immunity".  The concept really only works if we have "herd mask wearing".    If you're the lone guy at the grocery wearing a mask - you should probably find another grocery. The mask there will do you little good - and everybody else is already gambling with your well-being by being a potential germ spreader.

At least - that's the theory. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 20, 2020, 05:03:24 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 20, 2020, 04:37:49 PM

My thought exactly. I am pretty surprised the story isn’t getting more airtime, but with all that is going on in the world, it seems that “terrifying“ barely moves the needle anymore.

I would definitely change doctors.   Or dentists.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 20, 2020, 07:01:26 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on May 20, 2020, 05:01:24 PM

As hards pointed out - in the non-medical setting (grocery store, etc) the masks are are mostly to keep your "droplets" from getting far away from you and reaching someone else.  Yes, they also provide some protection against germs getting in - but that depends on the type of mask you wear and how it is fitted. 

To your point about "would it not be unlikely covid germs got in my mouth/nose/eyes" - the idea here is much like "herd immunity".  The concept really only works if we have "herd mask wearing".    If you're the lone guy at the grocery wearing a mask - you should probably find another grocery. The mask there will do you little good - and everybody else is already gambling with your well-being by being a potential germ spreader.

At least - that's the theory.

To add to this point, the people not wearing the masks get called, "selfish jerks" because that is how it comes off.  That person doesn't care enough about the people they are interacting with to wear a simple piece of cloth over their face.  Their 'rights' or their 'beliefs' supersede their ability to care about other people.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on May 20, 2020, 07:15:36 PM

This is an honest question, in any enclosed public space, I’m masked up...but I go out for walks 2x a day, but generally keep my mask down, but will happily put it back up as a see folks approach if we can’t be six apart.  This cool?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 20, 2020, 07:36:09 PM

Quote from: reinko on May 20, 2020, 07:15:36 PM

This is an honest question, in any enclosed public space, I’m masked up...but I go out for walks 2x a day, but generally keep my mask down, but will happily put it back up as a see folks approach if we can’t be six apart.  This cool?

I do that.  I am less worried about contaminating myself with the mask—particularly outside.  So pull up/down on the bandana is how I roll. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 20, 2020, 07:53:50 PM

Quote from: reinko on May 20, 2020, 07:15:36 PM

This is an honest question, in any enclosed public space, I’m masked up...but I go out for walks 2x a day, but generally keep my mask down, but will happily put it back up as a see folks approach if we can’t be six apart.  This cool?

Should be.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on May 20, 2020, 08:16:53 PM

Quote from: reinko on May 20, 2020, 07:15:36 PM

This is an honest question, in any enclosed public space, I’m masked up...but I go out for walks 2x a day, but generally keep my mask down, but will happily put it back up as a see folks approach if we can’t be six apart.  This cool?

I rarely take my mask if I'm outdoors, know I can keep away from people, and won't approach people in that situation.  I don't think it's "uncool" at all.  If the virus spreads outdoors at 10+ ft walking.  Well, shoot me now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 20, 2020, 08:37:40 PM

Quote from: reinko on May 20, 2020, 07:15:36 PM

This is an honest question, in any enclosed public space, I’m masked up...but I go out for walks 2x a day, but generally keep my mask down, but will happily put it back up as a see folks approach if we can’t be six apart.  This cool?

Totally cool regarding others.

Just make sure you don’t touch any potentially contaminated things between touching your mask, so you don’t infect yourself.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 20, 2020, 10:14:17 PM

Don't think I've seen this posted yet:

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/infection-control/covid-19-does-not-easily-spread-via-contaminated-surfaces-cdc-says.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 20, 2020, 11:02:44 PM

Study finds nearly half of coronavirus tweets are coming from bots.

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/05/20/859814085/researchers-nearly-half-of-accounts-tweeting-about-coronavirus-are-likely-bots

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 20, 2020, 11:27:46 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on May 20, 2020, 10:14:17 PM

Don't think I've seen this posted yet:

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/infection-control/covid-19-does-not-easily-spread-via-contaminated-surfaces-cdc-says.html

I wasted an awful lot of Clorox wipes wiping down groceries for nothing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 21, 2020, 06:49:59 AM

That Columbia study is going to end up being politically weaponized.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 21, 2020, 07:15:19 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on May 20, 2020, 11:27:46 PM

I wasted an awful lot of Clorox wipes wiping down groceries for nothing.

Honestly, If groceries were infecting people we'd have seen grocery stores having to close a long time ago due to infected staff.  For the first couple of days, we brought stuff in, and let it sit in the cabinet or fridge a day before we used it.  When we didn't see outbreaks from grocery store workers like crazy I figured it was safe to forego the safety measure.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 21, 2020, 07:46:07 AM

Quote from: tower912 on May 21, 2020, 06:49:59 AM

That Columbia study is going to end up being politically weaponized.

There was a study a few weeks back that said essentially the same thing, but it didn't get any play. This might, I suppose, because Columbia's name is attached to it.

Personal opinion only, I don't think shutting down two weeks earlier would have been feasible. That's not really where the major unnatural carnal knowledge ups lay, IMO.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on May 21, 2020, 07:58:25 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on May 20, 2020, 10:14:17 PM

Don't think I've seen this posted yet:

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/infection-control/covid-19-does-not-easily-spread-via-contaminated-surfaces-cdc-says.html

So wearing a mask is more important than washing your hands (half kidding).  Washing hands is still very important.
I think this takes us in a new direction and shows the importance of wearing a mask.
It really is amazing how these viruses travel and are passed along

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 07:59:59 AM

The science is settled,  aina.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 21, 2020, 08:04:28 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on May 21, 2020, 07:46:07 AM

There was a study a few weeks back that said essentially the same thing, but it didn't get any play. This might, I suppose, because Columbia's name is attached to it.

Personal opinion only, I don't think shutting down two weeks earlier would have been feasible. That's not really where the major unnatural carnal knowledge ups lay, IMO.

It would have been even more difficult to shut things down without the up close and personal death and dying.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 21, 2020, 08:05:17 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 07:59:59 AM

The science is settled,  aina.

Nice addition. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 21, 2020, 08:11:55 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 07:59:59 AM

The science is settled,  aina.

Was in SE Asia.  Maybe we should take a couple of hints from what others have done right instead of putting out an official statement that masks don't work.  Would have been nice to have a stockpile of safety equipment for such an event so we didn't have to confuse the American public.  Oh well, there will be a next time.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 21, 2020, 08:12:49 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 07:59:59 AM

The science is settled,  aina.

Yes it is. Over 100K new coronavirus cases yesterday. We’ve got it under control!
Open up!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 21, 2020, 08:13:27 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 07:59:59 AM

The science is settled,  aina.

Nope.  It’ll change a lot between now and the end of this.  The sooner people accept that, the faster we can beat this.  I applaud the men and women working their tails off trying to beat this.  They know people are dying and getting sick everyday and it’s up to them to stop that.  God bless them

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 08:21:06 AM

Wow, the mope squad is out in full force this morning.  My comment was snark.  JFC.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 21, 2020, 08:24:29 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 08:21:06 AM

Wow, the mope squad is out in full force this morning.  My comment was snark.  JFC.

They're all snark and no substance.

Sorta like most things from the dope squad.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on May 21, 2020, 08:25:24 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 20, 2020, 11:02:44 PM

Study finds nearly half of coronavirus tweets are coming from bots.

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/05/20/859814085/researchers-nearly-half-of-accounts-tweeting-about-coronavirus-are-likely-bots

Not surprising.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 08:40:05 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 21, 2020, 08:24:29 AM

They're all snark and no substance.

Sorta like most things from the dope squad.

Ok, Hoke.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 21, 2020, 08:45:30 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 08:40:05 AM

Ok, Hoke.

I mean, you can easily check your post history and find what I said to be true.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 21, 2020, 08:50:04 AM

Quote from: wadesworld on May 21, 2020, 08:12:49 AM

Yes it is. Over 100K new coronavirus cases yesterday. We’ve got it under control!
Open up!

Allowing for snark....if we don't open now, when do we? You're king of America as of today, what's your plan from this point forward?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 21, 2020, 08:53:29 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 21, 2020, 08:50:04 AM

Allowing for snark....if we don't open now, when do we? You're king of America as of today, what's your plan from this point forward?

If we are going to reopen most places, now is the time.  Need to maximize what we can while the weather is nice (for areas relatively in control).

I think the thing people need to ask themselves is what is your government/state doing to catch the virus and tell those people to stay home until well.  Secondarily, how do we make it economically palatable for those people to follow the order.  That is really what this has been about even from the start (shut-down decision/out of control because we had no clue how prevalent the virus was).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 08:54:09 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 21, 2020, 08:45:30 AM

I mean, you can easily check your post history and find what I said to be true.

No shît genious.  It's been my schtick for 14 years on this site. 

We all cant be as smart and hysterical as you,  but you have a Solution for everything. 

This place is a joke and i treat it as such.  Always have.

Good luck with your paranoia.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 21, 2020, 09:02:31 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 08:54:09 AM

No shît genious.  It's been my schtick for 14 years on this site. 

We all cant be as smart and hysterical as you,  but you have a Solution for everything. 

This place is a joke and i treat it as such.  Always have.

Good luck with your paranoia.

Hey, isn't paranoia a mental illness?  You're allowed to call people names, but I can't?  Just checking to see if the rules you created are different for you.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 09:07:25 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 21, 2020, 09:02:31 AM

Hey, isn't paranoia a mental illness?  You're allowed to call people names, but I can't?  Just checking to see if the rules you created are different for you.

I support you getting the help you need.  Seriously, i do worry about your mental health, and the mental health of all workers during the pandemic.  Something like 40% of all employees have reported symptions of anxiety and or depression in the last few months.  The mental health system is strained, was already, worse now, but make the call.  It will help you immensely.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 21, 2020, 09:08:31 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 21, 2020, 08:50:04 AM

Allowing for snark....if we don't open now, when do we? You're king of America as of today, what's your plan from this point forward?

Masks are mandatory in indoor public places.   Ticketable offense.   Costco can send a picture of your bare face to the 5-0 and it is a $100 fine.   Nationwide universal testing program.   Find a reliable antibodies test.    Cash payments to the previously underpaid unappreciated essential employees.  Stockboys, delivery truck drivers, paramedics working for private companies, nursing home employees, janitors at medical facilities.

Direct payments to small businesses to open them back up.   Insist they all have a plan and actually follow it.   As the king, make a show of visibly following the protocol.   Use my bully pulpit to marginalize the anti-maskers.   Bet my political career on doing the right thing by my constituents.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 21, 2020, 09:11:46 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 09:07:25 AM

I support you getting the help you need.  Seriously, i do worry about your mental health, and the mental health of all workers during the pandemic.  Something like 40% of all employees have reported symptions of anxiety and or depression in the last few months.  The mental health system is strained, was already, worse now, but make the call.  It will help you immensely.

Just to be clear, when I do something like this, you fly off the handle at me.  But when you do it, it's a hilarious joke.

Character revealed, truly.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 09:14:25 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 21, 2020, 09:11:46 AM

Just to be clear, when I do something like this, you fly off the handle at me.  But when you do it, it's a hilarious joke.

Character revealed, truly.

I'm being serious. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 21, 2020, 09:14:29 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 21, 2020, 08:50:04 AM

Allowing for snark....if we don't open now, when do we? You're king of America as of today, what's your plan from this point forward?

Put the CDC in front, instead of "right behind" the states.

Specifically, I would devote the entire scientific force of the federal government to enhance testing (both in numbers, and in ensuring that only the most accurate tests are used), and contact tracing. The hodgepodge of tests - both in terms of availability and accuracy - plus the shortfalls in contact tracing ability, will hamper any effort to rein this in in a responsible way.

Only the CDC has the ability to do that...and if I were King of America, I would order them to get on the above immediately. (Although frankly, if I were King, I would have told them that months ago.)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lighthouse 84 on May 21, 2020, 09:16:36 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 09:07:25 AM

I support you getting the help you need.  Seriously, i do worry about your mental health, and the mental health of all workers during the pandemic.  Something like 40% of all employees have reported symptions of anxiety and or depression in the last few months.  The mental health system is strained, was already, worse now, but make the call.  It will help you immensely.

You could be spot on ZFB. 

https://www.dailywire.com/news/hundreds-of-doctors-warn-trump-of-exponentially-growing-negative-health-consequences-of-shutdown?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=benshapiro

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 21, 2020, 09:42:14 AM

Quote from: Mane'shouse 84 on May 21, 2020, 09:16:36 AM

You could be spot on ZFB. 

https://www.dailywire.com/news/hundreds-of-doctors-warn-trump-of-exponentially-growing-negative-health-consequences-of-shutdown?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=benshapiro

Interesting that neither the Daily Wire nor Fox News, which first reported on this letter, mentioned who's behind it.

The first signature on the letter was Dr. Simone Gold, an emergency medicine specialist in Los Angeles who is listed as a member of the Save Our Country Coalition* on the group’s website. She has recently appeared on conservative talk radio and podcast programs to advocate for the use of hydroxychloroquine, a malaria drug that Trump says he is taking because he believes it can prevent COVID-19, even though no research has shown it to be effective. Gold said she has prescribed the drug to two of her patients with good results.

*Save Our Country Coalition is an alliance of conservative think tanks and political committees formed in late April to end state lockdowns implemented in response to the pandemic. Other members of the coalition include the FreedomWorks Foundation, the American Legislative Exchange Council and Tea Party Patriots.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/coronavirus/2020/5/19/21264399/pro-trump-doctors-reopening-economy-coronavirus

There undoubtedly are millions experiencing anxiety and other mental health issues as a result of the pandemic and stay-at-home orders. We as a country should be working to address their needs, rather than politicizing them or cynically using them as an argument for ending other public health measures.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: buckchuckler on May 21, 2020, 09:56:48 AM

Don't know if this has been posted, as I don't have the intention of wading through much of this, but this seems to be good news.

https://news.yahoo.com/as-more-states-reopen-georgia-defies-predictions-of-coronavirus-resurgence-whats-the-lesson-for-the-rest-of-the-country-164734815.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warrior2008 on May 21, 2020, 09:57:59 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 21, 2020, 09:14:29 AM

Put the CDC in front, instead of "right behind" the states.

Specifically, I would devote the entire scientific force of the federal government to enhance testing (both in numbers, and in ensuring that only the most accurate tests are used), and contact tracing. The hodgepodge of tests - both in terms of availability and accuracy - plus the shortfalls in contact tracing ability, will hamper any effort to rein this in in a responsible way.

Only the CDC has the ability to do that...and if I were King of America, I would order them to get on the above immediately. (Although frankly, if I were King, I would have told them that months ago.)

I understand your point, but I think its fair to point out that one of the primary reasons we had a shortage of tests in March that left us flying blind was because the CDC royally screwed up fabricating their test in January and February.  Then they dragged their feet "fixing" the problem only to find out the test was essentially useless.  They were supposed to set up contact tracing and surveillance testing in key areas by mid-February and didn't. 

That's not to say the CDC is useless, but my point is they own a level of culpability in how we got to where we are.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 21, 2020, 10:02:49 AM

Quote from: buckchuckler on May 21, 2020, 09:56:48 AM

Don't know if this has been posted, as I don't have the intention of wading through much of this, but this seems to be good news.

https://news.yahoo.com/as-more-states-reopen-georgia-defies-predictions-of-coronavirus-resurgence-whats-the-lesson-for-the-rest-of-the-country-164734815.html

It appeared to be good news until people started looking into the data reporting practices...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/20/us/florida-georgia-covid-19-test-data/index.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 10:04:06 AM

Quote from: Warrior2008 on May 21, 2020, 09:57:59 AM

I understand your point, but I think its fair to point out that one of the primary reasons we had a shortage of tests in March that left us flying blind was because the CDC royally screwed up fabricating their test in January and February.  Then they dragged their feet "fixing" the problem only to find out the test was essentially useless.  They were supposed to set up contact tracing and surveillance testing in key areas by mid-February and didn't. 

That's not to say the CDC is useless, but my point is they own a level of culpability in how we got to where we are.

Yeah but OMB.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 21, 2020, 10:08:17 AM

Quote from: Warrior2008 on May 21, 2020, 09:57:59 AM

I understand your point, but I think its fair to point out that one of the primary reasons we had a shortage of tests in March that left us flying blind was because the CDC royally screwed up fabricating their test in January and February.  Then they dragged their feet "fixing" the problem only to find out the test was essentially useless.  They were supposed to set up contact tracing and surveillance testing in key areas by mid-February and didn't. 

That's not to say the CDC is useless, but my point is they own a level of culpability in how we got to where we are.

Absolutely they need to admit their failings...but they are still the best we have.

It's well past time to move forward and have CDC take control. After all, the office was specifically created with situations like this in mind. We can't possibly assess the success or failure of reopening with 50+ different levels of testing and accuracy, and a hodgepodge of contact tracing methodologies.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 21, 2020, 10:15:50 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 09:14:25 AM

I'm being serious.

And I was being serious when I said that I think Chico's needs a checkup.  Creating a second personality is definite sign of mental illness, isn't it?  I'm asking since you're somehow diagnosing me as paranoid, or depressed or something.  Unsure what your criteria for your diagnosis of me is, exactly.  But you're the expert here, not me.

Please advise.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 21, 2020, 10:22:50 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 21, 2020, 09:14:29 AM

Put the CDC in front, instead of "right behind" the states.

Specifically, I would devote the entire scientific force of the federal government to enhance testing (both in numbers, and in ensuring that only the most accurate tests are used), and contact tracing. The hodgepodge of tests - both in terms of availability and accuracy - plus the shortfalls in contact tracing ability, will hamper any effort to rein this in in a responsible way.

Only the CDC has the ability to do that...and if I were King of America, I would order them to get on the above immediately. (Although frankly, if I were King, I would have told them that months ago.)

We don't have a monarchy in this country, or a system that allows what you want.  Also, so many here and around the country already call him a dictator and you want to actually give him dictator powers?  Careful what you ask for. 

Besides, what is good for NYC isn't good for North Dakota or Wyoming.  This is why you see so many around the nation upset. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 21, 2020, 10:25:02 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 08:54:09 AM

No shît genious.  It's been my schtick for 14 years on this site. 

We all cant be as smart and hysterical as you,  but you have a Solution for everything. 

This place is a joke and i treat it as such.  Always have.

Good luck with your paranoia.

I like your schtick. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 21, 2020, 10:25:39 AM

Quote from: tower912 on May 21, 2020, 09:08:31 AM

Masks are mandatory in indoor public places.   Ticketable offense.   Costco can send a picture of your bare face to the 5-0 and it is a $100 fine.   Nationwide universal testing program.   Find a reliable antibodies test.    Cash payments to the previously underpaid unappreciated essential employees.  Stockboys, delivery truck drivers, paramedics working for private companies, nursing home employees, janitors at medical facilities.

Direct payments to small businesses to open them back up.   Insist they all have a plan and actually follow it.   As the king, make a show of visibly following the protocol.   Use my bully pulpit to marginalize the anti-maskers.   Bet my political career on doing the right thing by my constituents.

I'll add one more. Make gatherings of 20+ people a criminal offense. That includes churches. Big parties and churches are spreading this right now. Church and religious services can easily continue in an online format.

If you follow the above. I think much of business can open and stay open in a successful manner.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 21, 2020, 10:29:18 AM

Quote from: wadesworld on May 21, 2020, 08:12:49 AM

Yes it is. Over 100K new coronavirus cases yesterday. We’ve got it under control!
Open up!

Paranoia and over reaction is also part of the calculus.  How many people are you also causing ruin to (financially, socially, emotionally, psychologically) by keeping things closed down?  There are many sides to these difficult questions. 

Of those 100K, how many will die?  As Andrew Cuomo said, people are going to die no matter what you do.  It's terrible, but that is what this virus does.  Was it a heartless comment or a factual one?  I suspect depending on who said it determines how it is classified.

Protect the vulnerable as best you can and let's get this country going again.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 21, 2020, 10:32:44 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 21, 2020, 10:02:49 AM

It appeared to be good news until people started looking into the data reporting practices...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/20/us/florida-georgia-covid-19-test-data/index.html

That's the data that shows in Georgia that Sunday now follows Thursday.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 21, 2020, 10:36:35 AM

It does eventually.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 21, 2020, 10:38:27 AM

Quote from: tower912 on May 21, 2020, 10:36:35 AM

It does eventually.

I should have said "immediately follows". 
 ;)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 21, 2020, 10:40:42 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 21, 2020, 09:42:14 AM

Interesting that neither the Daily Wire nor Fox News, which first reported on this letter, mentioned who's behind it.

The first signature on the letter was Dr. Simone Gold, an emergency medicine specialist in Los Angeles who is listed as a member of the Save Our Country Coalition* on the group’s website. She has recently appeared on conservative talk radio and podcast programs to advocate for the use of hydroxychloroquine, a malaria drug that Trump says he is taking because he believes it can prevent COVID-19, even though no research has shown it to be effective. Gold said she has prescribed the drug to two of her patients with good results.

*Save Our Country Coalition is an alliance of conservative think tanks and political committees formed in late April to end state lockdowns implemented in response to the pandemic. Other members of the coalition include the FreedomWorks Foundation, the American Legislative Exchange Council and Tea Party Patriots.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/coronavirus/2020/5/19/21264399/pro-trump-doctors-reopening-economy-coronavirus

There undoubtedly are millions experiencing anxiety and other mental health issues as a result of the pandemic and stay-at-home orders. We as a country should be working to address their needs, rather than politicizing them or cynically using them as an argument for ending other public health measures.

Scientists are people. They have political biases that inform their judgement on how to move forward based on the data - especially when it’s not truly definitive. Fox News gives a forum to scientists whose biases lean right. MSNBC, CNN and the three major networks prefer experts who lean left. Almost all of the information we receive is filtered through a lens of political bias. Look no further than Scoop itself. Politics dominate this thread.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 10:53:59 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 21, 2020, 10:15:50 AM

And I was being serious when I said that I think Chico's needs a checkup.  Creating a second personality is definite sign of mental illness, isn't it?  I'm asking since you're somehow diagnosing me as paranoid, or depressed or something.  Unsure what your criteria for your diagnosis of me is, exactly.  But you're the expert here, not me.

Please advise.

I am an expert when i can say thay you are obsessed with chicos, but thats about it. 

You made yourself the coronavirus expert from the beginning with your chicken little-esque wailings and nashing of teeth. 

You're a medical professional, not me. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: buckchuckler on May 21, 2020, 10:55:25 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 21, 2020, 10:02:49 AM

It appeared to be good news until people started looking into the data reporting practices...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/20/us/florida-georgia-covid-19-test-data/index.html

Did you read it?  It incorporates that, and even cites and links a similar article.  And still

Quote

Those figures are undisputed %u2014 despite a clumsy effort by state officials to present the data in a way that made them look even better.

Basically, their 3 week rolling average of positive cases and positive % are declining.  There is an 18% decline from May 4th to the 18th.  Even adjusting for their reporting... um.... irregularities.

Also,

Quote

The numbers reflect a slowing in transmission. According to the AJC database, Rt — an epidemiological statistic that represents transmissibility, or the number of people a sick person infects at a particular point in an epidemic — fell from 1.0 on May 4, to 0.94 on May 11, to 0.88 on May 16. An Rt below 1 indicates that each person infects, on average, less than one other person.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 21, 2020, 11:01:01 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 10:53:59 AM

I am an expert when i can say thay you are obsessed with chicos, but thats about it. 

You made yourself the coronavirus expert from the beginning with your chicken little-esque wailings and nashing of teeth. 

You're a medical professional, not me.

Ah, so you can't evaluate me, and it was just a dig.  I can handle that, but maybe you should reevaluate your 'shtick' since it just makes you look like a jerk most of the time.  Maybe don't make a huge deal out of mental health and then a few days later use mental health to make fun of people.  It's just a bad look.

What were my chicken little-esque wailings and nashing (sic) of teeth, exactly?  I warned people early and and said what scientists were saying at the time.  I was proven right on most accounts (the only incorrect one I can think of was the Ibuprofen warning).  There is plenty of history in this and other threads since you seem to want to keep score.

I'm not obsessed with Chico's.  I'm obsessed with calling him a liar at every turn, because if he can't even admit WHO he is, why should anyone believe WHAT he says.  I don't care that he is here and I wouldn't call for him to be banned.  Just looking for the honesty that he demands from the media and others.  I'm sure plenty of others see it that way as well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 21, 2020, 11:09:47 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 21, 2020, 10:22:50 AM

We don't have a monarchy in this country, or a system that allows what you want.  Also, so many here and around the country already call him a dictator and you want to actually give him dictator powers?  Careful what you ask for. 

Besides, what is good for NYC isn't good for North Dakota or Wyoming.  This is why you see so many around the nation upset.

Oh go dunk your head in a vat of grease, it was a hypothetical to start a discussion. Your post provides no value and is intentionally antagonistic. Contribute in a meaningful way or move along.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 21, 2020, 11:14:28 AM

Quote from: tower912 on May 21, 2020, 09:08:31 AM

Masks are mandatory in indoor public places.   Ticketable offense.   Costco can send a picture of your bare face to the 5-0 and it is a $100 fine.   Nationwide universal testing program.   Find a reliable antibodies test.    Cash payments to the previously underpaid unappreciated essential employees.  Stockboys, delivery truck drivers, paramedics working for private companies, nursing home employees, janitors at medical facilities.

Direct payments to small businesses to open them back up.   Insist they all have a plan and actually follow it.   As the king, make a show of visibly following the protocol.   Use my bully pulpit to marginalize the anti-maskers.   Bet my political career on doing the right thing by my constituents.

I can get on board with a lot, may I offer a change? Perhaps my inner economist, but instead of "criminalizing" non-maskers, what if there was a stimulus payment tied to your compliance with mask wearing? Let's say $500 a month per family or something is tied to mask wearing....if you are found to not be wearing a mask in an indoor location(say Costco) you become ineligible for that payment going forward?

Let people profit from their compliance so to speak.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lighthouse 84 on May 21, 2020, 11:15:37 AM

Quote from: forgetful on May 21, 2020, 10:25:39 AM

I'll add one more. Make gatherings of 20+ people a criminal offense. That includes churches. Big parties and churches are spreading this right now. Church and religious services can easily continue in an online format.

If you follow the above. I think much of business can open and stay open in a successful manner.

What about outside?  Are you ok with outdoor patios and dining open for up to 50, while limiting outdoor church services to 10, ala Minnesota? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 21, 2020, 11:22:36 AM

Quote from: Mane'shouse 84 on May 21, 2020, 11:15:37 AM

What about outside?  Are you ok with outdoor patios and dining open for up to 50, while limiting outdoor church services to 10, ala Minnesota?

I'd be fine with properly spaced services outside and a strict no contact/no communion set of rules.  I'm not sure what the argument against that could be.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 21, 2020, 11:24:50 AM

Quote from: buckchuckler on May 21, 2020, 10:55:25 AM

Basically, their 3 week rolling average of positive cases and positive % are declining.  There is an 18% decline from May 4th to the 18th.  Even adjusting for their reporting... um.... irregularities.

I hope this is accurate, because it would be good news.
But the way Georgia is reporting its testing results artificially lowers the positivity rate.

A representative for the Georgia Department of Public Health confirmed Monday that data on its website listing the total number of tests performed includes both antibody and viral tests for the novel coronavirus. The two tests are not the same. Antibody tests tell signs of previous infections while viral tests identify those who are currently infected.

“You’re putting apples and oranges together and calling them oranges,” said Dr. Harry J. Heiman, a clinical associate professor at Georgia State University’s School of Public Health. “You’re mixing two different tests. ...All that does is over-inflate the testing number.

“If anything, it skews those numbers to make it appear like the level of disease relative to testing is actually dropping much more dramatically than it is.”

https://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/coronavirus/article242831786.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 21, 2020, 11:26:31 AM

Quote from: forgetful on May 21, 2020, 10:25:39 AM

I'll add one more. Make gatherings of 20+ people a criminal offense. That includes churches. Big parties and churches are spreading this right now. Church and religious services can easily continue in an online format.

If you follow the above. I think much of business can open and stay open in a successful manner.

I would actually make the arguement that if we eliminated group gatherings INDOORS of more than say 10 people for 6 months we will have this virus pretty well handled until we get a vaccine.

The group events/where people are concentrated seems to be what's spreading the disease.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 21, 2020, 11:29:25 AM

Quote from: Mane'shouse 84 on May 21, 2020, 11:15:37 AM

What about outside?  Are you ok with outdoor patios and dining open for up to 50, while limiting outdoor church services to 10, ala Minnesota?

Perfectly fine with that. I might put a limit on density. You don't want 50 people shoulder to shoulder like at a concert, but it would be an easy thing to accommodate. Open up outdoor restaurants/patios. Do church services outdoors like they would do in the Minocqua area in summer.

All good options for those that want more in person events.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 11:31:16 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 21, 2020, 11:01:01 AM

Ah, so you can't evaluate me, and it was just a dig.  I can handle that, but maybe you should reevaluate your 'shtick' since it just makes you look like a jerk most of the time.  Maybe don't make a huge deal out of mental health and then a few days later use mental health to make fun of people.  It's just a bad look.

What were my chicken little-esque wailings and nashing (sic) of teeth, exactly?  I warned people early and and said what scientists were saying at the time.  I was proven right on most accounts (the only incorrect one I can think of was the Ibuprofen warning).  There is plenty of history in this and other threads since you seem to want to keep score.

I'm not obsessed with Chico's.  I'm obsessed with calling him a liar at every turn, because if he can't even admit WHO he is, why should anyone believe WHAT he says.  I don't care that he is here and I wouldn't call for him to be banned.  Just looking for the honesty that he demands from the media and others.  I'm sure plenty of others see it that way as well.

Ok, snowflake.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 21, 2020, 11:35:00 AM

Does anyone know if there has been any analysis of fatality rate based on time period? I've got a hypothesis that the patients who got Covid in Feb were way less lucky than someone who catches it now. Given 3 months of learning best practice interventions AND reduced strain on the healthcare system I'm thinking that the fatality rate in Covid infections is lower now than it was in March or April.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on May 21, 2020, 11:39:58 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 21, 2020, 11:35:00 AM

Does anyone know if there has been any analysis of fatality rate based on time period? I've got a hypothesis that the patients who got Covid in Feb were way less lucky than someone who catches it now. Given 3 months of learning best practice interventions AND reduced strain on the healthcare system I'm thinking that the fatality rate in Covid infections is lower now than it was in March or April.

Anecdotally my sister is head of nursing at her hospital in the Chicago suburbs and this is definitely the case.  Outcomes,  according to her,  are much better now than in March.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 21, 2020, 11:53:50 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 21, 2020, 11:35:00 AM

Does anyone know if there has been any analysis of fatality rate based on time period? I've got a hypothesis that the patients who got Covid in Feb were way less lucky than someone who catches it now. Given 3 months of learning best practice interventions AND reduced strain on the healthcare system I'm thinking that the fatality rate in Covid infections is lower now than it was in March or April.

Interesting hypothesis that I hope proves to be true. It makes sense that everything you mention would bring the fatality rate down. So might the fact that many of our most vulnerable have already succumbed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 21, 2020, 12:01:09 PM

Proposed "new" normal:
-Wear a mask when indoors whenever possible(everyone)
-No gatherings of more than 10 unless outside
-Dining establishments can have outdoor dining with 6ft b/t tables and inside with 9ft of space(which will dictate their capacities not some percentage of standard capacity)
-if you are at risk, advised to remain vigilant and minimize movement
-Covid testing once a week(for a completed test you get $100 dollars)
-Outdoor events/entertainment can resume with 6ft of spacing (lines, seats, etc) ie, concerts at Red Rocks or Summerfest are good to go as long as crowds can be spaced.

What else? Who objects? Reasonable modifications?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on May 21, 2020, 12:02:30 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 21, 2020, 11:53:50 AM

Interesting hypothesis that I hope proves to be true. It makes sense that everything you mention would bring the fatality rate down. So might the fact that many of our most vulnerable have already succumbed.

Again,  anecdotal but according to my sis it has to do with treatments.  My sister works one day a week as an actual nurse at a separate hospital.  It is a trauma center.  Their improvements has been less but they get the worst cases.  She says the treatments they have now versus March are leading to better outcomes.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 21, 2020, 12:04:05 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 21, 2020, 12:01:09 PM

Proposed "new" normal:
-Wear a mask when indoors whenever possible(everyone)
-No gatherings of more than 10 unless outside
-Dining establishments can have outdoor dining with 6ft b/t tables and inside with 9ft of space(which will dictate their capacities not some percentage of standard capacity)
-if you are at risk, advised to remain vigilant and minimize movement
-Covid testing once a week(for a completed test you get $100 dollars)
-Outdoor events/entertainment can resume with 6ft of spacing (lines, seats, etc) ie, concerts at Red Rocks or Summerfest are good to go as long as crowds can be spaced.

What else? Who objects? Reasonable modifications?

Concerts festivals seem unlikely. Other options are solid not sure how long it lasts once the winter comes restaurants will need to fill more capacity.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 21, 2020, 12:04:12 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 11:31:16 AM

Ok, snowflake.

 ::) ::) ::)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on May 21, 2020, 12:04:44 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 21, 2020, 12:01:09 PM

Proposed "new" normal:
-Wear a mask when indoors whenever possible(everyone)
-No gatherings of more than 10 unless outside
-Dining establishments can have outdoor dining with 6ft b/t tables and inside with 9ft of space(which will dictate their capacities not some percentage of standard capacity)
-if you are at risk, advised to remain vigilant and minimize movement
-Covid testing once a week(for a completed test you get $100 dollars)
-Outdoor events/entertainment can resume with 6ft of spacing (lines, seats, etc) ie, concerts at Red Rocks or Summerfest are good to go as long as crowds can be spaced.

What else? Who objects? Reasonable modifications?

No objections.  Just wonder what all my clients (manufacturers) will do with those limitations.  I don't have the answers but the shop floors/warehousing areas are going to be tricky.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 21, 2020, 12:07:40 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 21, 2020, 12:01:09 PM

Proposed "new" normal:
-Wear a mask when indoors whenever possible(everyone)
-No gatherings of more than 10 unless outside
-Dining establishments can have outdoor dining with 6ft b/t tables and inside with 9ft of space(which will dictate their capacities not some percentage of standard capacity)
-if you are at risk, advised to remain vigilant and minimize movement
-Covid testing once a week(for a completed test you get $100 dollars)
-Outdoor events/entertainment can resume with 6ft of spacing (lines, seats, etc) ie, concerts at Red Rocks or Summerfest are good to go as long as crowds can be spaced.

What else? Who objects? Reasonable modifications?

Sign me up for everything but the last one.  Seems impossible.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 21, 2020, 12:09:07 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 21, 2020, 12:01:09 PM

Proposed "new" normal:
-Wear a mask when indoors whenever possible(everyone)
-No gatherings of more than 10 unless outside
-Dining establishments can have outdoor dining with 6ft b/t tables and inside with 9ft of space(which will dictate their capacities not some percentage of standard capacity)
-if you are at risk, advised to remain vigilant and minimize movement
-Covid testing once a week(for a completed test you get $100 dollars)
-Outdoor events/entertainment can resume with 6ft of spacing (lines, seats, etc) ie, concerts at Red Rocks or Summerfest are good to go as long as crowds can be spaced.

What else? Who objects? Reasonable modifications?

Most of these are good, but I think the last one would be impossible to carry out or enforce.
I'd stick with no non-essential gatherings of more than 10 people indoors and 50 people outdoors until development of a vaccine or effective treatment. Maybe willing to make exceptions for necessary workplace events.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 21, 2020, 12:12:28 PM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on May 21, 2020, 12:02:30 PM

Again,  anecdotal but according to my sis it has to do with treatments.  My sister works one day a week as an actual nurse at a separate hospital.  It is a trauma center.  Their improvements has been less but they get the worst cases.  She says the treatments they have now versus March are leading to better outcomes.

Anecdotal if all we’ll have for awhile. Good to hear your sister is seeing better results. Best to her and all of her coworkers - true front line heroes.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on May 21, 2020, 12:29:37 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 21, 2020, 12:01:09 PM

Proposed "new" normal:
-Wear a mask when indoors whenever possible(everyone)

-Covid testing once a week(for a completed test you get $100 dollars)

What else? Who objects? Reasonable modifications?

So if I'm understanding you correctly, my 15 person office opens back up.  Everyone would be wearing a mask whilst seated at their desks?  (Not trying to be combative, just trying to understand your largely reasonable stances)

And who is going to pay for $100 per test?  I can get tested weekly and make $400 a month?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on May 21, 2020, 12:44:07 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 21, 2020, 12:01:09 PM

Proposed "new" normal:
-Wear a mask when indoors whenever possible(everyone)
-No gatherings of more than 10 unless outside
-Dining establishments can have outdoor dining with 6ft b/t tables and inside with 9ft of space(which will dictate their capacities not some percentage of standard capacity)
-if you are at risk, advised to remain vigilant and minimize movement
-Covid testing once a week(for a completed test you get $100 dollars)
-Outdoor events/entertainment can resume with 6ft of spacing (lines, seats, etc) ie, concerts at Red Rocks or Summerfest are good to go as long as crowds can be spaced.

What else? Who objects? Reasonable modifications?

So what do you do with fall sports? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 21, 2020, 12:54:06 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on May 21, 2020, 12:29:37 PM

So if I'm understanding you correctly, my 15 person office opens back up.  Everyone would be wearing a mask whilst seated at their desks?  (Not trying to be combative, just trying to understand your largely reasonable stances)

Does the nature of your work require you to be in the office? If so 6ft distance and hand washing wherever possible and masks when distance is allowed. Anyone that can work from home should continue to do so until cure/vaccine. Incidental contact is very low risk, its sustained contact and droplets from talking that are the main risk.

Quote from: JWags85 on May 21, 2020, 12:29:37 PM

And who is going to pay for $100 per test?  I can get tested weekly and make $400 a month?

Government. We're losing $16 Billion a month in GDP, we can afford to spend some amount of money($100 was lazy, number could be different) to incentivize people to test. If we test once a week and pull those who test positive out of circulation right away, the R0 gets to like 0.4 or less pretty fast

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 21, 2020, 12:59:26 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 21, 2020, 12:54:06 PM

Does the nature of your work require you to be in the office? If so 6ft distance and hand washing wherever possible and masks when distance is allowed. Anyone that can work from home should continue to do so until cure/vaccine. Incidental contact is very low risk, its sustained contact and droplets from talking that are the main risk.

Government. We're losing $16 Billion a month in GDP, we can afford to spend some amount of money($100 was lazy, number could be different) to incentivize people to test. If we test once a week and pull those who test positive out of circulation right away, the R0 gets to like 0.4 or less pretty fast

Right, and that is proactive rather than reactive.  You reward good actors rather than punish bad actors.  Flies, honey, vinegar.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 21, 2020, 01:00:11 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 21, 2020, 12:59:26 PM

Right, and that is proactive rather than reactive.  You reward good actors rather than punish bad actors.  Flies, honey, vinegar.

Exactly

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 21, 2020, 01:08:03 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on May 21, 2020, 12:44:07 PM

So what do you do with fall sports?

I'd open them with weekly testing for the players and mandatory IR for two weeks with a positive test. I'd also do limited in game attendance based on capacity to keep distance..teams need at least some gate money

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 21, 2020, 01:41:36 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 21, 2020, 10:22:50 AM

We don't have a monarchy in this country, or a system that allows what you want.  Also, so many here and around the country already call him a dictator and you want to actually give him dictator powers?  Careful what you ask for. 

Besides, what is good for NYC isn't good for North Dakota or Wyoming.  This is why you see so many around the nation upset.

The king reference was solely because I was answering the question that was asked. Flew straight over your head, ai'na?

And FWIW, the CDC is within HHS, which is controlled by a Trump appointee. So yeah - if Trump wanted CDC to do exactly what it was created to do, they would be doing it. It has nothing to do with a dictatorship, and everything to do with a President empowering (or not) one of the Executive Branch agencies to do what it was created for.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on May 21, 2020, 03:44:17 PM

Just saw a PSA in which Nick Saban tells people to wear a mask.  Having sports celebs like that do those in state will create a positive response and can only help

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on May 21, 2020, 04:41:27 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on May 21, 2020, 03:44:17 PM

Just saw a PSA in which Nick Saban tells people to wear a mask.  Having sports celebs like that do those in state will create a positive response and can only help

If Saban had a PSA that said “if you want to see Bama play this fall, wear a mask. Otherwise there will be no season. Roll Tide”...Alabama would lead the nation in mask wearing with like a 90% compliance rate.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 21, 2020, 05:02:51 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 21, 2020, 01:41:36 PM

The king reference was solely because I was answering the question that was asked. Flew straight over your head, ai'na?

And FWIW, the CDC is within HHS, which is controlled by a Trump appointee. So yeah - if Trump wanted CDC to do exactly what it was created to do, they would be doing it. It has nothing to do with a dictatorship, and everything to do with a President empowering (or not) one of the Executive Branch agencies to do what it was created for.

Besides HHS, the CDC is also run by a Trump lackey. Part of the reason that the once most respected disease center in the world is making gaffe after gaffe.

Also, Dr. Birx has become a yes-woman for Trump instead of doing her job.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on May 21, 2020, 05:45:22 PM

Also heard AAU hoops tournament is taking place in Florida this weekend.
Temp checks to get in the door if you have a temp you do not get in.  limited amount of spectators will be allowed.  Games played in blocks so once your block is done you leave the gym through a separate area than the entrance

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 21, 2020, 05:54:32 PM

It will be interesting to see when the bars open back up what happens.
Even with spacing.
Studies have shown voice projections such as singing or loud talking spreads the virus.
You never hear people talking loud in bars especially drunk people.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 21, 2020, 06:14:47 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on May 21, 2020, 05:54:32 PM

It will be interesting to see when the bars open back up what happens.
Even with spacing.
Studies have shown voice projections such as singing or loud talking spreads the virus.
You never hear people talking loud in bars especially drunk people.

I don’t get louder when I drink, I get smarter, so I’ll be fine

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 06:27:05 PM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 21, 2020, 06:14:47 PM

I don’t get louder when I drink, I get smarter, so I’ll be fine

So your IQ hits 40 then, aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 21, 2020, 06:30:32 PM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 21, 2020, 06:14:47 PM

I don’t get louder when I drink, I get smarter, so I’ll be fine

Post of the week!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 21, 2020, 06:40:23 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on May 21, 2020, 05:45:22 PM

Also heard AAU hoops tournament is taking place in Florida this weekend.
Temp checks to get in the door if you have a temp you do not get in.  limited amount of spectators will be allowed.  Games played in blocks so once your block is done you leave the gym through a separate area than the entrance

Forget the temp checks. Require masks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 06:43:48 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on May 21, 2020, 06:40:23 PM

Forget the temp checks. Require masks.

Yeah, dont understand the temp check.  Seems like a seriously lagging indicator.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 21, 2020, 06:44:04 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 06:27:05 PM

So your IQ hits 40 then, aina?

I wish

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 06:48:23 PM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 21, 2020, 06:44:04 PM

I wish
[/quote

Yeah was probably generous with the 40.   8-)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 21, 2020, 07:08:53 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 21, 2020, 08:50:04 AM

Allowing for snark....if we don't open now, when do we? You're king of America as of today, what's your plan from this point forward?

His plan is to wish he was a good athlete so that he could pull the covers over his head and whine like his hero, Blake Snell.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on May 21, 2020, 07:24:46 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on May 21, 2020, 06:40:23 PM

Forget the temp checks. Require masks.

Masks were encouraged and might be required.  Forgot that one

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 21, 2020, 07:26:19 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 06:43:48 PM

Yeah, dont understand the temp check.  Seems like a seriously lagging indicator.

Absolutely.  It's pretty stupid considering all of the asymptomatic cases we are seeing.  A temp tells you someone is currently sick, not that they're infected and spreading.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 21, 2020, 07:48:01 PM

Agree that temp checks are a weak indicator since not every patient gets fever, and it lags initial infection and contagiousness.

Still, it’s an easy thing to check with the non-contact thermometers, and sometimes fever is the first symptom, starting as soon as 2 days after exposure. So low yield, but really fast and easy.

Now if we were still in the era of exclusively rectal temps....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 21, 2020, 07:49:17 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 21, 2020, 07:08:53 PM

His plan is to wish he was a good athlete so that he could pull the covers over his head and whine like his hero, Blake Snell.

Sounds like you're the one carrying on and whining.  Snell made a statement more than a few baseball players are agreeing with.  I have no problem with a professional athlete saying that if you want to force him to not leave his hotel room on a road trip and wear a mask anytime he's not on the field competing and have a swab stuck up his nose almost to his brain every day then pay him what he agreed to.  If you want him to take a pay cut to do it he'll sit out.  I see no problem with it.  If that makes him my hero, then I've found a hero in Blake Snell!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 21, 2020, 08:05:32 PM

Game time! Guess who said it.

"I tested very positively in another sense. I tested positively toward negative, right? So no, I tested perfectly this morning. Meaning I tested negative. But that's a way of saying it. Positively toward the negative."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 21, 2020, 08:07:59 PM

Quote from: wadesworld on May 21, 2020, 07:49:17 PM

Sounds like you're the one carrying on and whining.  Snell made a statement more than a few baseball players are agreeing with.  I have no problem with a professional athlete saying that if you want to force him to not leave his hotel room on a road trip and wear a mask anytime he's not on the field competing and have a swab stuck up his nose almost to his brain every day then pay him what he agreed to.  If you want him to take a pay cut to do it he'll sit out.  I see no problem with it.  If that makes him my hero, then I've found a hero in Blake Snell!

You must have an alert for every time I post - you respond almost immediately as a rule. Meanwhile, you still haven’t answered Eng’s question. If you had I wouldn’t have made my admittedly snarky post.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on May 21, 2020, 08:13:46 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 06:43:48 PM

Yeah, dont understand the temp check.  Seems like a seriously lagging indicator.

cousins dad passed away due to kidney problems a couple weeks ago.  He was put on the covid floor cause he had a temp and his death was ruled cause of covid for hospital benefits.  Seems a lot of places are going off temp checks

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 21, 2020, 08:16:06 PM

Quote from: TAMU Eagle on May 20, 2020, 04:44:08 PM

You are entitled to your opinion. Personally, I don't think hero worshiping an entire generation is healthy or fair. I also don't think demonizing an entire generation (like your boomers suck example) is healthy or fair either.

It is not hero worshiping, it is acknowledging what they did and I doubt any future generation in this country will ever do again.  It is my opinion and memorialized by properly for people that have come later who have little idea the gravity of the situation or the sacrifice people made then.  No idea.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 08:17:51 PM

Quote from: Jockey on May 21, 2020, 08:05:32 PM

Game time! Guess who said it.

"I tested very positively in another sense. I tested positively toward negative, right? So no, I tested perfectly this morning. Meaning I tested negative. But that's a way of saying it. Positively toward the negative."

For someone you proclaim to loathe, you are pretty obsessed with him.

Does the president affect your life that much?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 21, 2020, 08:25:38 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 08:17:51 PM

For someone you proclaim to loathe, you are pretty obsessed with him.

Does the president affect your life that much?

Obviously.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 21, 2020, 08:29:21 PM

Quote from: Warrior2008 on May 21, 2020, 09:57:59 AM

I understand your point, but I think its fair to point out that one of the primary reasons we had a shortage of tests in March that left us flying blind was because the CDC royally screwed up fabricating their test in January and February.  Then they dragged their feet "fixing" the problem only to find out the test was essentially useless.  They were supposed to set up contact tracing and surveillance testing in key areas by mid-February and didn't. 

That's not to say the CDC is useless, but my point is they own a level of culpability in how we got to where we are.

We also had a major shortage of masks by millions because Trump didn't replace them in 2017-2019 and Obama didn't from 2011 to 2016.  Fact checked by the media.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 21, 2020, 08:31:10 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 21, 2020, 07:48:01 PM

Agree that temp checks are a weak indicator since not every patient gets fever, and it lags initial infection and contagiousness.

They’re also a weak indicator since everyone with a fever doesn’t have COVID.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 21, 2020, 08:32:29 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 21, 2020, 11:09:47 AM

Oh go dunk your head in a vat of grease, it was a hypothetical to start a discussion. Your post provides no value and is intentionally antagonistic. Contribute in a meaningful way or move along.

How so?  Do you believe the answer for NY should be the answer for Wyoming?  Explain.   And we don't have a king nor do we have a form of gov't that allows the President to call all the shots.  How is that antagonistic?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 21, 2020, 08:44:00 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 21, 2020, 08:31:10 PM

They’re also a weak indicator since everyone with a fever doesn’t have COVID.

I am not qualified to qualify the strength of temperature checks among other options.  I will say that deployed in a workforce it isn’t perfect But it has caught Covid at the door instead of letting it into a facility. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 21, 2020, 08:44:56 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 21, 2020, 08:16:06 PM

It is not hero worshiping, it is acknowledging what they did and I doubt any future generation in this country will ever do again.  It is my opinion and memorialized by properly for people that have come later who have little idea the gravity of the situation or the sacrifice people made then.  No idea.

It becomes hero worshipping when you only acknowledge the positive and refuse to acknowledge the not so positive.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on May 21, 2020, 08:48:58 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 21, 2020, 08:44:00 PM

I am not qualified to qualify the strength of temperature checks among other options.  I will say that deployed in a workforce it isn’t perfect But it has caught Covid at the door instead of letting it into a facility.

keeps people that are sick period away from others which is a good thing in general

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 21, 2020, 09:00:24 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 08:17:51 PM

For someone you proclaim to loathe, you are pretty obsessed with him.

Does the president affect your life that much?

Let’s see. Record unemployment, tanking stocks, economy shut down. Um yeah.
Hopefully you really meant to post that in teal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 21, 2020, 09:02:48 PM

The 1969 Pandemic that killed more than a million globally and 100,000+ in the United States.  The Hong Kong flu.  My dad had it and we was extremely sick.

It barely made the news.  We did almost nothing, life went on as normal.  Contrast that to today.


https://nypost.com/2020/05/16/why-life-went-on-as-normal-during-the-killer-pandemic-of-1969/

Woodstock was in full bloom
No school closings
Shamu was ill with the virus

Those of you old enough to remember might enjoy this read.  I was a teen still and other than my dad having the flu, it didn't register.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 21, 2020, 09:13:35 PM

Quote from: wadesworld on May 20, 2020, 05:20:53 PM

Very liberal of you.

You continue to equate liberal with a party, which is wrong.  Why do you do that?  Many moderates out there or even people that have opposite positions than their party line.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 21, 2020, 09:20:27 PM

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on May 21, 2020, 12:05:04 PM

do you think we should not have any speed limits because death is inevitable?

Do you think we should not have drunk driving laws because crashes occur anyway?

We tolerate 40,000 auto fatalities a year in this country as a cost of doing business.  We have laws in place so that number isn't 60,000 or 80,000.  We can be practical and do the same for this virus to protect the most vulnerable. 

I'm old, my earnings curve is ending and tied to dividends and interest.  For many of you and for my kids (in their 20's and early 30's), this has implications that I don't think you all grasp to the fullest extent in my opinion.  If you are infected between 18 to 44 years old, less than 1% need hospitalization and less than 0.1% die.  Those odds are lower than things we allow freely to happen to those age groups every day in this country. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 09:22:11 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on May 21, 2020, 09:00:24 PM

Let’s see. Record unemployment, tanking stocks, economy shut down. Um yeah.
Hopefully you really meant to post that in teal.

 ::) ::) ::)

I bet you were an "Obama's ecomony" guy until January.  :o :o

You used to be rational, dont know what happened to you.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 21, 2020, 09:27:45 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 21, 2020, 09:20:27 PM

We tolerate 40,000 auto fatalities a year in this country as a cost of doing business.  We have laws in place so that number isn't 60,000 or 80,000.  We can be practical and do the same for this virus to protect the most vulnerable. 

I'm old, my earnings curve is ending and tied to dividends and interest.  For many of you and for my kids (in their 20's and early 30's), this has implications that I don't think you all grasp to the fullest extent in my opinion.  If you are infected between 18 to 44 years old, less than 1% need hospitalization and less than 0.1% die.  Those odds are lower than things we allow freely to happen to those age groups every day in this country.

And then what happens to those parents or coworkers of the 18-44 year olds who are over 60 and contract it from the 1844 year olds we let run around and get it?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 21, 2020, 09:28:14 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 21, 2020, 08:31:10 PM

They’re also a weak indicator since everyone with a fever doesn’t have COVID.

True, but given the current chaotic state of the world, that seems like a limitation worth living with.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 21, 2020, 09:29:57 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 21, 2020, 08:07:59 PM

You must have an alert for every time I post - you respond almost immediately as a rule. Meanwhile, you still haven’t answered Eng’s question. If you had I wouldn’t have made my admittedly snarky post.

I responded 49 minutes after your post. That’s “almost immediately?” Lol. What does that make your response, 18 minutes after mine?

To answer Eng’s post, if I were king of the world for a day I’d ask Blake Snell what he’d do and take his advice.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 21, 2020, 09:33:28 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on May 21, 2020, 09:00:24 PM

Let’s see. Record unemployment, tanking stocks, economy shut down. Um yeah.
Hopefully you really meant to post that in teal.

You’re seriously suggesting the current economic environment is the fault of Trump?  Never let a crisis go to waste I suppose.  And it’s beyond reason and a miracle the markets have hung on as well as they have considering our economy has all but shut down for two months.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: brewcity77 on May 21, 2020, 09:35:20 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 21, 2020, 09:20:27 PM

We tolerate 40,000 auto fatalities a year in this country as a cost of doing business.  We have laws in place so that number isn't 60,000 or 80,000.  We can be practical and do the same for this virus to protect the most vulnerable. 

I'm old, my earnings curve is ending and tied to dividends and interest.  For many of you and for my kids (in their 20's and early 30's), this has implications that I don't think you all grasp to the fullest extent in my opinion.  If you are infected between 18 to 44 years old, less than 1% need hospitalization and less than 0.1% die.  Those odds are lower than things we allow freely to happen to those age groups every day in this country.

And this completely misses the point of why social distancing is recommended. It's not about what happens to the people between 18-44, it's about what happens to the people they come into contact with. One of the biggest trigger factors for potential severe cases is age 50+. So if those 18-44 year old people come into contact with anyone who is immunocompromised, has diabetes, asthma, other respiratory conditions, or is 50+ years old, they are considered high risk.

It's just like wearing the mask. You don't wear a mask to protect yourself, you wear it to protect others because carriers can be asymptomatic and transmitting the disease for days before they even experience the first signs of disease.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 21, 2020, 09:41:19 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 21, 2020, 09:33:28 PM

And it’s beyond reason and a miracle the markets have hung on as well as they have considering our economy has all but shut down for two months.

It's not a miracle. It is called the Feds printing money to buy securities and place a backstop on the economy. Trillions in securities bought so that there was less risk of corporate bankruptcies, and no other place to put money that could generate any sort of return.

The economy is dismal. The market is absurdly overpriced, and expensive. It is because of fed actions. Actions that eventually have to be undone. At some point, we will pay the price.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 21, 2020, 09:47:47 PM

Quote from: forgetful on May 21, 2020, 09:41:19 PM

It's not a miracle. It is called the Feds printing money to buy securities and place a backstop on the economy. Trillions in securities bought so that there was less risk of corporate bankruptcies, and no other place to put money that could generate any sort of return.

The economy is dismal. The market is absurdly overpriced, and expensive. It is because of fed actions. Actions that eventually have to be undone. At some point, we will pay the price.

Where is the Tea Party to be outraged by the Fed's fenagling and the multi-trillion-dollar deficit spending? Where is Joe Wilson to stand up when President Pandemic is stumbling his way through a teleprompter speech to shout, "You lie!"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 21, 2020, 09:51:46 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 21, 2020, 09:02:48 PM

The 1969 Pandemic that killed more than a million globally and 100,000+ in the United States.  The Hong Kong flu.  My dad had it and we was extremely sick.

It barely made the news.  We did almost nothing, life went on as normal.  Contrast that to today.


https://nypost.com/2020/05/16/why-life-went-on-as-normal-during-the-killer-pandemic-of-1969/

Woodstock was in full bloom
No school closings
Shamu was ill with the virus

Those of you old enough to remember might enjoy this read.  I was a teen still and other than my dad having the flu, it didn't register.

Interesting article. That pandemic hit the US in my second semester junior year and returned my first semester senior year. Although many died, life went on. Vietnam Nam, LBJ abdicating, Gene McCarthy and the children’s crusade, Chicago Democratic Convention, the Miracle Mets, etc., we’re big stories. The Hong Kong flu was a footnote in comparison.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 21, 2020, 10:07:09 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 21, 2020, 09:33:28 PM

You’re seriously suggesting the current economic environment is the fault of Trump?  Never let a crisis go to waste I suppose.  And it’s beyond reason and a miracle the markets have hung on as well as they have considering our economy has all but shut down for two months.

+1

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Newsdreams on May 21, 2020, 10:11:20 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 21, 2020, 08:16:06 PM

It is not hero worshiping, it is acknowledging what they did and I doubt any future generation in this country will ever do again.  It is my opinion and memorialized by properly for people that have come later who have little idea the gravity of the situation or the sacrifice people made then.  No idea.

So you're close to 80? You were alive then? And remember no one in the US wanted part of that war at all. It took an attack on US soil. Else the US was not going to war and that generation was fine with that. We were not going to war to save anyone except ourselves.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Newsdreams on May 21, 2020, 10:15:55 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 21, 2020, 09:20:27 PM

We tolerate 40,000 auto fatalities a year in this country as a cost of doing business.  We have laws in place so that number isn't 60,000 or 80,000.  We can be practical and do the same for this virus to protect the most vulnerable. 

I'm old, my earnings curve is ending and tied to dividends and interest.  For many of you and for my kids (in their 20's and early 30's), this has implications that I don't think you all grasp to the fullest extent in my opinion.  If you are infected between 18 to 44 years old, less than 1% need hospitalization and less than 0.1% die.  Those odds are lower than things we allow freely to happen to those age groups every day in this country.

This is very Chicos of you

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 21, 2020, 10:20:19 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 21, 2020, 09:02:48 PM

The 1969 Pandemic that killed more than a million globally and 100,000+ in the United States.  The Hong Kong flu.  My dad had it and we was extremely sick.

It barely made the news.  We did almost nothing, life went on as normal.  Contrast that to today.


https://nypost.com/2020/05/16/why-life-went-on-as-normal-during-the-killer-pandemic-of-1969/

Woodstock was in full bloom
No school closings
Shamu was ill with the virus

Those of you old enough to remember might enjoy this read.  I was a teen still and other than my dad having the flu, it didn't register.

There were somewhere between 34,000-100,000 deaths from the 1968-70 flu, depending on what CDC source you look at. The 1968 pandemic is known as having a significantly lower mortality than most flu pandemics. Maybe that is why there weren't major restrictions.

That means that over a 2-year time period, with no quarantines, anything, there were less deaths than we've seen in about 3-months of the coronavirus.

And Woodstock was in August. It wasn't during a pandemic. It wasn't even flu season.

If we take the 34,000 deaths from 1968-70, that would be 17,000 deaths per year, and below average for the flu.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on May 21, 2020, 10:25:12 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 21, 2020, 09:47:47 PM

Where is the Tea Party to be outraged by the Fed's fenagling and the multi-trillion-dollar deficit spending? Where is Joe Wilson to stand up when President Pandemic is stumbling his way through a teleprompter speech to shout, "You lie!"

Mike, man to man, can we stop the “President Pandemic” nonsense? The partisan nature of all of this is unavoidable and I can accept that, but that’s as annoying and distracting as people calling him Cheeto Man or other stuff on Twitter. I know it’s meant to rile a certain sect up, but you’re better than that  8-)

Speaking of the HK Flu, amazed how well they’ve handled this. But I suppose they are experts in infectious disease combat by this point. Plus it unintentionally quelled all the protest chaos

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 10:35:35 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on May 21, 2020, 10:25:12 PM

Mike, man to man, can we stop the “President Pandemic” nonsense? The partisan nature of all of this is unavoidable and I can accept that, but that’s as annoying and distracting as people calling him Cheeto Man or other stuff on Twitter. I know it’s meant to rile a certain sect up, but you’re better than that  8-)

Speaking of the HK Flu, amazed how well they’ve handled this. But I suppose they are experts in infectious disease combat by this point. Plus it unintentionally quelled all the protest chaos

Sad thing is, he's proven over and over and over again that Mr. Blogger is not better than that.  He's a 60 year old child.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 21, 2020, 10:40:50 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 09:22:11 PM

::) ::) ::)

I bet you were an "Obama's ecomony" guy until January.  :o :o

You used to be rational, dont know what happened to you.

No, I thought the economy was artificially propped up by a trillion dollar a year addition to the deficit should be better than it was when we were actually reducing the deficit.

But are you seriously saying the actions of trump doesn’t impact  your life?

Are you part of the trump tells it like it is guy or you have to understand what he means not what he says guy or a fine people on both sides guy or a build the wall and Mexico is going to pay for it guy or a lock her up for a private server even though ivanka is doing the same thing it’s different guy?

So hard to keep up these days.

I’m more of a wwjd guy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on May 21, 2020, 10:45:31 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on May 21, 2020, 10:25:12 PM

Mike, man to man, can we stop the “President Pandemic” nonsense? The partisan nature of all of this is unavoidable and I can accept that, but that’s as annoying and distracting as people calling him Cheeto Man or other stuff on Twitter. I know it’s meant to rile a certain sect up, but you’re better than that  8-)

Nuts to that. Bush proved during 9/11 that the bar for showing leadership in a crisis isn't very high. You stand up there, say "the only thing to fear is fear itself" and a few other  inspirational things, and make everyone feel a little better. Trump has proven to be totally incapable of doing even that. Its not his fault, he accepts no responsibility, everyone is out to get him,  Joe Scarborough is guilty of murder and Obama is a traitor. Guy can't even put on a mask.

Four Americans died at Benghazi and the Republicans treated it like Pearl Harbor and 9/11 combined. But 100,000 dead and 320 million unemployed and this fellow is upset because somebody called Trump a nasty name.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 21, 2020, 10:46:36 PM

Quote from: forgetful on May 21, 2020, 09:41:19 PM

It's not a miracle. It is called the Feds printing money to buy securities and place a backstop on the economy. Trillions in securities bought so that there was less risk of corporate bankruptcies, and no other place to put money that could generate any sort of return.

The economy is dismal. The market is absurdly overpriced, and expensive. It is because of fed actions. Actions that eventually have to be undone. At some point, we will pay the price.

Of course the economy is in shambles, how could it not be?  To suggest that’s anyone’s fault is what I disagree with.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 11:05:30 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on May 21, 2020, 10:40:50 PM

No, I thought the economy was artificially propped up by a trillion dollar a year addition to the deficit should be better than it was when we were actually reducing the deficit.

But are you seriously saying the actions of trump doesn’t impact  your life?

Are you part of the trump tells it like it is guy or you have to understand what he means not what he says guy or a fine people on both sides guy or a build the wall and Mexico is going to pay for it guy or a lock her up for a private server even though ivanka is doing the same thing it’s different guy?

So hard to keep up these days.

I’m more of a wwjd guy.

No.

Wait, my taxes went down.  I think about that sometimes.

WWJD?  What would Joe do? 

Sniff hair and grope minors.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on May 21, 2020, 11:21:25 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 11:05:30 PM

No.

Wait, my taxes went down.  I think about that sometimes.

WWJD?  What would Joe do? 

Sniff hair and grope minors.

This election isn't about Joe, but I know one thing: he won't be talking about bloodlines.
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-praises-henry-fords-good-bloodlines-at-michigan-ppe-event-2020-5

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 22, 2020, 05:03:14 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 21, 2020, 09:02:48 PM

The 1969 Pandemic that killed more than a million globally and 100,000+ in the United States.  The Hong Kong flu.  My dad had it and we was extremely sick.

It barely made the news.  We did almost nothing, life went on as normal.  Contrast that to today.


https://nypost.com/2020/05/16/why-life-went-on-as-normal-during-the-killer-pandemic-of-1969/

Woodstock was in full bloom
No school closings
Shamu was ill with the virus

Those of you old enough to remember might enjoy this read.  I was a teen still and other than my dad having the flu, it didn't register.

Every pandemic is different.  Comparing this to 1969 is irrelevant

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 22, 2020, 06:00:46 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 10:35:35 PM

Sad thing is, he's proven over and over and over again that Mr. Blogger is not better than that.  He's a 60 year old child.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/xT1XGPqs2QsfJCD5HW/giphy.gif)

And I'm actually only a 59-year-old child.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 22, 2020, 06:19:06 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on May 21, 2020, 10:25:12 PM

Mike, man to man, can we stop the “President Pandemic” nonsense? The partisan nature of all of this is unavoidable and I can accept that, but that’s as annoying and distracting as people calling him Cheeto Man or other stuff on Twitter. I know it’s meant to rile a certain sect up, but you’re better than that  8-)

I appreciate your tone, Wags.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 22, 2020, 07:37:43 AM

Quote from: forgetful on May 21, 2020, 10:20:19 PM

There were somewhere between 34,000-100,000 deaths from the 1968-70 flu, depending on what CDC source you look at. The 1968 pandemic is known as having a significantly lower mortality than most flu pandemics. Maybe that is why there weren't major restrictions.

That means that over a 2-year time period, with no quarantines, anything, there were less deaths than we've seen in about 3-months of the coronavirus.

And Woodstock was in August. It wasn't during a pandemic. It wasn't even flu season.

If we take the 34,000 deaths from 1968-70, that would be 17,000 deaths per year, and below average for the flu.

Hey man, get outta here with your facts.  There's another false equivalency that needs to be made! 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 22, 2020, 08:00:44 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 11:05:30 PM

No.

Wait, my taxes went down.  I think about that sometimes.

WWJD?  What would Joe do? 

Sniff hair and grope minors.

So you are the I got mine screw everyone else and insult those who disagree. Got it. Thanks for showing your true colors.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lighthouse 84 on May 22, 2020, 08:02:00 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 11:05:30 PM

No.

Wait, my taxes went down.  I think about that sometimes.

WWJD?  What would Joe do? 

Sniff hair and grope minors.

Guys like PB will only say Trump affected their lives in a negative way. You were spot on about the "Obama's economy" reference.  One should be able to dislike Trump or his rhetoric but still admit when good things happen that affect the US as a result of his actions.  But those who dislike Trump will never admit he's done anything good that affects the US.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on May 22, 2020, 08:06:30 AM

Quote from: Mutaman on May 21, 2020, 10:45:31 PM

Four Americans died at Benghazi and the Republicans treated it like Pearl Harbor and 9/11 combined. But 100,000 dead and 320 million unemployed and this fellow is upset because somebody called Trump a nasty name.

I’m not “upset”. I don’t even like Trump. I was just making a request for the tone of the board. I’d say the same if someone kept calling Biden “Joey Grabs” or something. I like this board and there is much to be gained  when it’s not bogged down with infighting, it was just a thought I had.

Thanks for proving my point, ignoring my tone, and immediately making me out to be a MAGA slurper to talk down to.

Quote from: MU82 on May 22, 2020, 06:19:06 AM

I appreciate your tone, Wags.

Of course, flies and honey and such 🤙🏼

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 22, 2020, 08:23:38 AM

Quote from: Mane'shouse 84 on May 22, 2020, 08:02:00 AM

Guys like PB will only say Trump affected their lives in a negative way. You were spot on about the "Obama's economy" reference.  One should be able to dislike Trump or his rhetoric but still admit when good things happen that affect the US as a result of his actions.  But those who dislike Trump will never admit he's done anything good that affects the US.

You have to admit though that if you are hanging your hat on the tax cut, even this was done in a very divisive way.  Greatly depends on where you live...

For example, I did not see a benefit + i think it was fiscally wrong.  So I'm glad you are winning.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 22, 2020, 08:25:41 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on May 22, 2020, 08:06:30 AM

I’m not “upset”. I don’t even like Trump. I was just making a request for the tone of the board. I’d say the same if someone kept calling Biden “Joey Grabs” or something. I like this board and there is much to be gained  when it’s not bogged down with infighting, it was just a thought I had.

Thanks for proving my point, ignoring my tone, and immediately making me out to be a MAGA slurper to talk down to.

Of course, flies and honey and such 🤙🏼

I for one appreciate your tone and willingness to bring facts to the discussion.  We could cut out 100 pages of this thread by culling the namecalling and flaming.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 22, 2020, 08:34:21 AM

(https://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/im-done-gif-15.gif)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 22, 2020, 08:53:22 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on May 22, 2020, 08:00:44 AM

So you are the I got mine screw everyone else and insult those who disagree. Got it. Thanks for showing your true colors.

***ZFB walks home from the fishing hole, whisting contentedly.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 22, 2020, 09:08:11 AM

Quote from: Mane'shouse 84 on May 22, 2020, 08:02:00 AM

Guys like PB will only say Trump affected their lives in a negative way. You were spot on about the "Obama's economy" reference.  One should be able to dislike Trump or his rhetoric but still admit when good things happen that affect the US as a result of his actions.  But those who dislike Trump will never admit he's done anything good that affects the US.

He's done something positive?  I would admit if he did something good, but there nothing to admit only one crappy decision followed by even worse ones.
I've read that economists say one President's economy carry on for one year after leaving office because Congressional budgets are already in place and it takes time for "new policies" to work in.  With that metric the Obama economy ended at the end of 2017.  2018 saw Trump policies take effect like tariffs and the tax bill that was a complete waste.  It created a "paper burn" in 2018 that made it look like things were OK.  2019 was a complete disaster that the pandemic just literally unmasked in 2020.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 22, 2020, 09:10:53 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 22, 2020, 08:23:38 AM

You have to admit though that if you are hanging your hat on the tax cut, even this was done in a very divisive way.  Greatly depends on where you live...

For example, I did not see a benefit + i think it was fiscally wrong.  So I'm glad you are winning.

It wasn't a tax cut.  Opinion polls after it was passed showed tax INCREASES in the past were viewed more favorably than this tax bill. 

You're right so much winning!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 22, 2020, 10:41:34 AM

I see a lot of people citing %positive tests as a useful metric. The argument from them is that increases in cases doesn't mean anything because of increases in testing, and that the %positive tests is a more accurate measure. I disagree.

While it is true, that if there isn't enough testing capacity to test those that are likely to have the disease, increased testing of that population would lead to more cases.

But what we see a lot of now, is people with no symptoms, and no history of being exposed to a positive case, going and getting tested for piece of mind. There are a lot doing this. They have a near zero chance of being a positive case.

If those people make up a significant percentage of the overall number of tests, we should see the %positive rate drop dramatically. If it stays constant with increased testing, that is a very bad sign.

The %positive metric is only useful if the populations being tested are the same. Before it was mostly hospitalized patients, or those severely symptomatic. Now it is everyone including Jane Smith, who hasn't left the house in 2-months, but is afraid they got it from their pet gerbil.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 22, 2020, 10:54:16 AM

Quote from: forgetful on May 22, 2020, 10:41:34 AM

I see a lot of people citing %positive tests as a useful metric. The argument from them is that increases in cases doesn't mean anything because of increases in testing, and that the %positive tests is a more accurate measure. I disagree.

While it is true, that if there isn't enough testing capacity to test those that are likely to have the disease, increased testing of that population would lead to more cases.

But what we see a lot of now, is people with no symptoms, and no history of being exposed to a positive case, going and getting tested for piece of mind. There are a lot doing this. They have a near zero chance of being a positive case.

If those people make up a significant percentage of the overall number of tests, we should see the %positive rate drop dramatically. If it stays constant with increased testing, that is a very bad sign.

The %positive metric is only useful if the populations being tested are the same. Before it was mostly hospitalized patients, or those severely symptomatic. Now it is everyone including Jane Smith, who hasn't left the house in 2-months, but is afraid they got it from their pet gerbil.

I don't disagree, but for months all we heard was "Moar Testing!"  Now testing is available and people think they need to get tested.  A lot of them proabably think they're safe now, because testing and not understanding what that test means.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 22, 2020, 10:58:49 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 22, 2020, 10:54:16 AM

I don't disagree, but for months all we heard was "Moar Testing!"  Now testing is available and people think they need to get tested.  A lot of them proabably think they're safe now, because testing and not understanding what that test means.

This is all true. We did need more testing. And there isn't inherently anything bad about people being tested because they are afraid their pet gerbil had it. Although, even though the testing has to be "covered," it still means we are all paying for them. Companies aren't just taking a loss.

The problem is in peoples selective use of the resulting data to push their agendas. Positive cases on its own, does not necessarily mean increased spread. A flat %positives, does not necessarily mean no increase in spread. The actual analysis would be very complicated.

The best evidence is likely deaths/hospitalizations, but even that is complicated by it being a lagging indicator, and highly dependent on if nursing homes are affected.

The bottom line is right now, is data is just going to be weaponized, and we won't have enough data under the same conditions for a couple weeks. Until then, most results are just agenda weapons.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 22, 2020, 11:04:29 AM

Quote from: forgetful on May 22, 2020, 10:58:49 AM

This is all true. We did need more testing. And there isn't inherently anything bad about people being tested because they are afraid their pet gerbil had it. Although, even though the testing has to be "covered," it still means we are all paying for them. Companies aren't just taking a loss.

The problem is in peoples selective use of the resulting data to push their agendas. Positive cases on its own, does not necessarily mean increased spread. A flat %positives, does not necessarily mean no increase in spread. The actual analysis would be very complicated.

The best evidence is likely deaths/hospitalizations, but even that is complicated by it being a lagging indicator, and highly dependent on if nursing homes are affected.

The bottom line is right now, is data is just going to be weaponized, and we won't have enough data under the same conditions for a couple weeks. Until then, most results are just agenda weapons.

Nothing new.  Single data points are bad statistically.  Trends matter.

It's why I've said the most important metric to consider is how full our beds are and what do the projections say they will be in a week or so after.  That is what should be guiding our public policy.  If they're not full, or anticipated to be approaching full then we can ease restrictions on the generally healthy public.  If people start filling those beds, and we are worried about health care systems being overwhelmed we go in the opposite direction.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 22, 2020, 11:10:11 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 22, 2020, 11:04:29 AM

Nothing new.  Single data points are bad statistically.  Trends matter.

It's why I've said the most important metric to consider is how full our beds are and what do the projections say they will be in a week or so after.  That is what should be guiding our public policy.  If they're not full, or anticipated to be approaching full then we can ease restrictions on the generally healthy public.  If people start filling those beds, and we are worried about health care systems being overwhelmed we go in the opposite direction.

The problem is how quickly things can change. Montgomery, Alabama went from fine, to out of ICU beds in a matter of days.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 22, 2020, 11:14:12 AM

Quote from: forgetful on May 22, 2020, 11:10:11 AM

The problem is how quickly things can change. Montgomery, Alabama went from fine, to out of ICU beds in a matter of days.

Indeed.  Hot spots will continue to pop up all over the US.  We will have to respond quickly and decisively to each.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 22, 2020, 11:52:35 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 21, 2020, 11:05:30 PM

No.

Wait, my taxes went down.  I think about that sometimes.

WWJD?  What would Joe do? 

Sniff hair and grope minors.

Character confirmed

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 22, 2020, 12:24:17 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on May 22, 2020, 11:52:35 AM

Character confirmed

(https://media.giphy.com/media/x0npYExCGOZeo/giphy.gif)

So gullible and simple minded.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 22, 2020, 12:27:50 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 22, 2020, 12:24:17 PM

(https://media.giphy.com/media/x0npYExCGOZeo/giphy.gif)

So gullible and simple minded.

Go home and get your shinebox, Tommy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 22, 2020, 12:33:18 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 22, 2020, 12:24:17 PM

(https://media.giphy.com/media/x0npYExCGOZeo/giphy.gif)

So gullible and simple minded.

Character confirmed

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 22, 2020, 01:05:53 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on May 22, 2020, 12:33:18 PM

Character confirmed

Illiteracy confirmed.  Read the thread, dumbass.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 22, 2020, 01:08:12 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 22, 2020, 01:05:53 PM

Illiteracy confirmed.  Read the thread, dumbass.

I remember when you blamed other posters for your posting habits. Had the self awareness to recognize them, yet can’t find the self discipline to change them.

It’s okay. Not your fault. Myself, hards, and a couple others have you held at gun point while making your posts.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 22, 2020, 01:10:38 PM

Quote from: wadesworld on May 22, 2020, 01:08:12 PM

I remember when you blamed other posters for your posting habits. Had the self awareness to recognize them, yet can’t find the self discipline to change them.

It’s okay. Not your fault. Myself, hards, and a couple others have you held at gun point while making your posts.

You guys are real bad asses.  The beta squad.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 22, 2020, 01:34:39 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 22, 2020, 11:14:12 AM

Indeed.  Hot spots will continue to pop up all over the US.  We will have to respond quickly and decisively to each.

Agreed. Which is why increased testing and contact tracing is absolutely critical. And - I have said this repeatedly, but it’s true - the CDC needs to be front and center in coordinating these efforts on a nationwide basis.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 22, 2020, 02:15:22 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 22, 2020, 01:05:53 PM

Illiteracy confirmed.  Read the thread, dumbass.

Relax, snowflake. It's not like this is the first time your character has been confirmed. Opinion of you isn't going to get any lower anyway.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 22, 2020, 02:19:31 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 22, 2020, 01:34:39 PM

Agreed. Which is why increased testing and contact tracing is absolutely critical. And - I have said this repeatedly, but it’s true - the CDC needs to be front and center in coordinating these efforts on a nationwide basis.

Goo, I’ve lost faith in that CDC. Once Trump takes over an agency, it is useless to listen to them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 22, 2020, 02:20:41 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on May 22, 2020, 02:15:22 PM

Relax, snowflake. It's not like this is the first time your character has been confirmed. Opinion of you isn't going to get any lower anyway.

Well shìt, you, wades, tsmith and hards don't like me.

Boo feckin hoo for me.

No talent assclown.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 22, 2020, 02:30:39 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 22, 2020, 02:20:41 PM

Well shìt, you, wades, tsmith and hards don't like me.

Boo feckin hoo for me.

No talent assclown.

Never said I didn't like you.  There are plenty of things I do like about you.  Being a hypocrite isn't an admirable quality though.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 22, 2020, 02:41:24 PM

Quote from: Jockey on May 22, 2020, 02:19:31 PM

Goo, I’ve lost faith in that CDC. Once Trump takes over an agency, it is useless to listen to them.

It’s true that he has a way of crushing his agencies into submission to the party line.

Still, putting CDC “right behind” state and local public health officials is like having Michael Jordan and benching him in favor of some 2 ppg guy who can’t dribble or jump.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 22, 2020, 03:18:14 PM

Derrick instead of Magic Dawson.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 22, 2020, 05:35:42 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 22, 2020, 02:20:41 PM

Well shìt, you, wades, tsmith and hards don't like me.

Boo feckin hoo for me.

No talent assclown.

I have no problem with you.  I just think it's absolutely hysterical you admit to posting in ways you don't like other people posting, but then go with the "BUT those posters make me do it."

Talk about a beta.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 22, 2020, 05:52:39 PM

Glad to know I once again stand against the bots trying to drive public opinion.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 22, 2020, 05:55:55 PM

Patrick Ewing has tested positive

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 22, 2020, 06:00:28 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 22, 2020, 02:20:41 PM

Well shìt, you, wades, tsmith and hards don't like me.

Boo feckin hoo for me.

No talent assclown.

You stay classy ZFB.  ::)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 22, 2020, 06:18:25 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on May 22, 2020, 06:00:28 PM

You stay classy ZFB.  ::)

Sorry i left you off the list.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 22, 2020, 06:20:40 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 22, 2020, 06:18:25 PM

Sorry i left you off the list.

Your list was a real insult to me. I've tried my best to earn a spot.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 22, 2020, 06:22:45 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 22, 2020, 06:18:25 PM

Sorry i left you off the list.

You really need help. Seriously.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 22, 2020, 06:34:36 PM

Quote from: Jockey on May 22, 2020, 06:20:40 PM

Your list was a real insult to me. I've tried my best to earn a spot.

Wades made me list those other posters.   ::) ::)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 22, 2020, 06:37:41 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on May 22, 2020, 06:22:45 PM

You really need help. Seriously.

Nah, I'm really good.  Drinking a beer, sitting outside on my deck, got Zeppelin on the speakers, not obsessing about Trump's impact on my life.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 22, 2020, 06:45:18 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 22, 2020, 06:34:36 PM

Wades made me list those other posters.   ::) ::)

No doubt about it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 22, 2020, 07:14:40 PM

Quote from: wadesworld on May 22, 2020, 06:45:18 PM

No doubt about it.

If I disliked you, I simply would never acknowledge or respond to you. I disagree with most ideas that fly off your fingers, but I guess you probably feel the same about my posts.

There are only 3 posters (out of the hundreds of Scoopers) that I will never acknowledge or respond to - but it's no big deal because they are banned more than they are here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 22, 2020, 08:17:06 PM

https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/fuu4lo/mask_vs_no_mask/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 22, 2020, 08:53:53 PM

The guy who breaks at least a half-dozen commandments per week is demanding that churches be allowed to open.

Doesn't seem to bother him that churchgoers have been getting sick (or dying) left and right. Also doesn't seem to bother him that he has as much authority over this as I do.

It's so brazenly political.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 22, 2020, 08:55:09 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 22, 2020, 06:37:41 PM

Nah, I'm really good.  Drinking a beer, sitting outside on my deck, got Zeppelin on the speakers, not obsessing about Trump's impact on my life.

You had me at Zeppelin on the speakers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 22, 2020, 08:56:08 PM

If opened, who will attend?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on May 22, 2020, 10:34:26 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 22, 2020, 08:53:53 PM

The guy who breaks at least a half-dozen commandments per week is demanding that churches be allowed to open.

Doesn't seem to bother him that churchgoers have been getting sick (or dying) left and right. Also doesn't seem to bother him that he has as much authority over this as I do.

It's so brazenly political.

Right. As if this guy has any power to tell the states what they should be doing!

Well, unless it has to do with the separation between church and state, in which case I guess he has all the power.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 23, 2020, 01:20:05 AM

Funny how the left discovered the 10th Amendment today, after trump threatened to override the states regarding church openings.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 23, 2020, 02:12:25 AM

Open the churches.    It is clearly political, a bone to his base, which is his right.     Ironically, it could end up spreading the illness around his base.   It has in several places where church services have been held.     I could be snarky, but having seen COVID up close and personal, I wouldn't wish bad cases on anyone.     


The question was asked weeks ago about whether you would go to a restaurant if opened in May.     Here we are at the end of May.     Would you go to church if opened next week?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Johnny B on May 23, 2020, 02:58:14 AM

Many "pro life" conservatives want churches open and want to pack them. How the hell is that pro life

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 23, 2020, 05:14:17 AM

Opening churches is fine by me.  So is taxing them.  Tax ‘em, baby

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 23, 2020, 06:43:43 AM

Churches have been open this entire time.  Just their buildings have been closed.

But in reality we all lknow this was just a political statement meant to rally his base. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 23, 2020, 08:23:00 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 23, 2020, 01:20:05 AM

Funny how the left discovered the 10th Amendment today, after trump threatened to override the states regarding church openings.

Funny how Trump and his sycophants discovered the 10th Amendment last month when it had to be pointed out to them that he did not have “absolute power” to demand that states re-open.

Funny how, despite that, he’s again trying to urinate on the Constitution as his sycophants cheer him on.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 23, 2020, 10:32:46 AM

The jig is up, fellow libs. The Bexar County GOP has figured it out

@bubbaprog: Absolutely bizarre. The Bexar County GOP chair concludes this rally by stating that the coronavirus is a hoax perpetuated by Democrats, tells people to take off their masks, and then everyone hugs each other. https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status/1263937751872868353/video/1

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 23, 2020, 10:41:33 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 22, 2020, 08:55:09 PM

You had me at Zeppelin on the speakers.

Sirius XM is running Led Zeppelin Radio right now on Channel 27.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 23, 2020, 11:17:33 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 23, 2020, 10:32:46 AM

The jig is up, fellow libs. The Bexar County GOP has figured it out

@bubbaprog: Absolutely bizarre. The Bexar County GOP chair concludes this rally by stating that the coronavirus is a hoax perpetuated by Democrats, tells people to take off their masks, and then everyone hugs each other. https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status/1263937751872868353/video/1

Good to see. More republicans should do this.

Then, they need to wear a Scarlet Letter 'R' on a chain around their necks, so rational people can avoid them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 23, 2020, 11:30:09 AM

One reason why Florida is doing so “well” with the pandemic.

Nearly 35,000 coronavirus tests in Florida cannot be processed
The latest mishap came when more than 1,700 completed tests were damaged in transit

https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/2020/05/21/more-than-1700-completed-covid-19-tests-damaged-in-transit/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 23, 2020, 11:46:25 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 23, 2020, 10:32:46 AM

The jig is up, fellow libs. The Bexar County GOP has figured it out

@bubbaprog: Absolutely bizarre. The Bexar County GOP chair concludes this rally by stating that the coronavirus is a hoax perpetuated by Democrats, tells people to take off their masks, and then everyone hugs each other. https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status/1263937751872868353/video/1

Darwinism.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 23, 2020, 11:48:46 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 23, 2020, 10:32:46 AM

The jig is up, fellow libs. The Bexar County GOP has figured it out

@bubbaprog: Absolutely bizarre. The Bexar County GOP chair concludes this rally by stating that the coronavirus is a hoax perpetuated by Democrats, tells people to take off their masks, and then everyone hugs each other. https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status/1263937751872868353/video/1

After watching that video, I assumed this was some backwater county in the middle of nowhere. Nope, this is the county centered by San Antonio. It has a population of close to 2M. Absolutely frightening.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 23, 2020, 11:55:54 AM

Quote from: forgetful on May 23, 2020, 11:48:46 AM

After watching that video, I assumed this was some backwater county in the middle of nowhere. Nope, this is the county centered by San Antonio. It has a population of close to 2M. Absolutely frightening.

Agreed. That could turn into a new hotspot pretty quickly if they keep doing things like that.

Too few people seem to understand the concept of exponential growth.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 23, 2020, 12:14:31 PM

Quote from: forgetful on May 23, 2020, 11:48:46 AM

After watching that video, I assumed this was some backwater county in the middle of nowhere. Nope, this is the county centered by San Antonio. It has a population of close to 2M. Absolutely frightening.

A side note, while spelled Bexar it is pronounced “bear”.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 23, 2020, 12:21:26 PM

Quote from: forgetful on May 23, 2020, 11:48:46 AM

After watching that video, I assumed this was some backwater county in the middle of nowhere. Nope, this is the county centered by San Antonio. It has a population of close to 2M. Absolutely frightening.

16th largest county on the nation, and growing.

At the same rally:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1263935118697062401

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 23, 2020, 12:49:32 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on May 23, 2020, 11:30:09 AM

One reason why Florida is doing so “well” with the pandemic.

Nearly 35,000 coronavirus tests in Florida cannot be processed
The latest mishap came when more than 1,700 completed tests were damaged in transit

https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/2020/05/21/more-than-1700-completed-covid-19-tests-damaged-in-transit/

Re-read the article, the 1,700 lost in transit were across the "lifetime of testing" meaning out of 192,000 about 1700 were lost to various "spoilage".....that's not unreasonable to me.

Also the 33K that are in dispute are between a healthcare provider and the lab....hardly a nefarious shell game that's implied.

Note, those 33K may represent a lot of positive tests that would screw up Florida's numbers but even if you assume a 15% positive rate on 33K, Florida would still be below the 10% mark given by the WHO as representative of slow/reduced spread.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 23, 2020, 01:19:43 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 23, 2020, 12:21:26 PM

16th largest county on the nation, and growing.

At the same rally:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1263935118697062401

It really is amazing how many people buy into this kind of nonsense.

I think the tweet below it from a Canadian says it all: I love America. But sometimes as a Canadian it feels like we live in the apartment above a meth lab.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on May 23, 2020, 05:50:03 PM

Front page of the Sunday New York Times:

They were not simply names on a list. They were us."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on May 23, 2020, 05:54:48 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on May 23, 2020, 05:50:03 PM

Front page of the Sunday New York Times:

They were not simply names onna list. They were us."

Didn’t see Olive Garden on that list.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 23, 2020, 06:26:35 PM

Hope President Pandemic had a better day on the golf course than me

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 23, 2020, 06:41:16 PM

Quote from: reinko on May 23, 2020, 05:54:48 PM

Didn’t see Olive Garden on that list.

There was a human being named Olive Garden?

We can always rebuild an economy (recall the Dotcom Bubble, the Great Recession and even the Great Depression), but as forgetful said in another thread “we cannot bring people back from the dead.“

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 23, 2020, 06:48:10 PM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 23, 2020, 06:26:35 PM

Hope President Pandemic had a better day on the golf course than me

Superb use of his nickname, Rico! He has plenty of time to play now that he has declared victory and moved on to lying about his perceived persecution.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on May 23, 2020, 06:51:45 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 23, 2020, 06:41:16 PM

There was a human being named Olive Garden?

We can always rebuild an economy (recall the Dotcom Bubble, the Great Recession and even the Great Depression), but as forgetful said in another thread “we cannot bring people back from the dead.“

Was a joke, as all the Karens of the world couldn’t get their never ending pasta bowls because their local Italian eatery died.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 23, 2020, 06:54:57 PM

Quote from: reinko on May 23, 2020, 06:51:45 PM

Was a joke, as all the Karens of the world couldn’t get their never ending pasta bowls because their local Italian eatery died.

You can’t replicate the magic of an Olive Garden at home.  It’s more than lunch or dinner, it’s an experience like being in Tuscany.  Scoff all you want, Olive Garden is the pinnacle for many when it comes to dining. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 23, 2020, 07:29:25 PM

Quote from: reinko on May 23, 2020, 06:51:45 PM

Was a joke, as all the Karens of the world couldn’t get their never ending pasta bowls because their local Italian eatery died.

My bad. It sometimes gets difficult here separating the serious comments from the jokes.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 23, 2020, 11:05:45 PM

Two Hairstylists with COVID-19 Served 140 Clients, Missouri Health Department Says

https://www.kansascity.com/news/coronavirus/article242962271.html

A second hairdresser working at Great Clips in Springfield, Missouri, has tested positive for COVID-19 and has potentially exposed the virus to clients, Missouri health officials said.

The Springfield-Greene County Health Department said on Saturday that a second stylist tested positive for the coronavirus and worked from May 16 to May 20 while having “very mild symptoms” but was “potentially infectious,” according to a press release.

...

A Great Clips hairdresser at the same location tested positive, served 84 clients, and exposed seven co-workers, the department announced Friday, according to McClatchy News. The first stylist also went to a Walmart, Dairy Queen, and a fitness center, according to officials.


So much for being able to trust people to do the right thing as the economy is reopened.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on May 24, 2020, 12:00:39 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on May 23, 2020, 05:50:03 PM

Front page of the Sunday New York Times:

They were not simply names on a list. They were us."

"Elections have consequences".

(https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/nyt-deaths-567x1024.jpeg)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 24, 2020, 05:30:53 AM

I thought this was interesting on how spread is occurring. 

 https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/21/opinions/south-korea-dance-class-covid19-outbreak-sepkowitz/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/21/opinions/south-korea-dance-class-covid19-outbreak-sepkowitz/index.html)

Fox version for those inclined (it’s the same)

 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/science/one-group-fitness-class-led-to-112-coronavirus-cases-in-south-korean-study-warns-as-societies-reopen.amp (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/science/one-group-fitness-class-led-to-112-coronavirus-cases-in-south-korean-study-warns-as-societies-reopen.amp)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 24, 2020, 06:53:35 AM

Yet another new poll showing that most Americans don't seem to be thrilled about the notion of re-opening the country ...

https://apnews.com/3562b5a082a27221e532075de509a36c?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=AP&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&fbclid=IwAR1Yb-VlN7D4xt67JrLXhrRIskPfN-lTmAkXmfvR2CqvAwfm4th81qBOCe0

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 24, 2020, 07:14:59 AM

Quote from: MU82 on May 24, 2020, 06:53:35 AM

Yet another new poll showing that most Americans don't seem to be thrilled about the notion of re-opening the country ...

https://apnews.com/3562b5a082a27221e532075de509a36c?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=AP&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&fbclid=IwAR1Yb-VlN7D4xt67JrLXhrRIskPfN-lTmAkXmfvR2CqvAwfm4th81qBOCe0

I 100% get that people are nervous about opening up and that is absolutely going to be key to the economy restarting is people getting to participate in it but.....

If we don't start reopening, I don't know when do we? Reopening, even in a very controlled manner will come with Increased risk of exposure. It will definitely result in more positive test results, it will very likely result in more hospitalizations and likely will result in more deaths. That all sucks, but unless we are staying closed until a vaccine I don't know how its avoidable. I'm all for mitigation but any opening of any kind has risk.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 24, 2020, 07:30:10 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 24, 2020, 07:14:59 AM

I 100% get that people are nervous about opening up and that is absolutely going to be key to the economy restarting is people getting to participate in it but.....

If we don't start reopening, I don't know when do we? Reopening, even in a very controlled manner will come with Increased risk of exposure. It will definitely result in more positive test results, it will very likely result in more hospitalizations and likely will result in more deaths. That all sucks, but unless we are staying closed until a vaccine I don't know how its avoidable. I'm all for mitigation but any opening of any kind has risk.

The debate should be how and what.  These polls about things from the past don’t really make a lot of sense nor do they help the general public move on to the next phase of this. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 24, 2020, 07:40:24 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 24, 2020, 07:14:59 AM

I 100% get that people are nervous about opening up and that is absolutely going to be key to the economy restarting is people getting to participate in it but.....

If we don't start reopening, I don't know when do we? Reopening, even in a very controlled manner will come with Increased risk of exposure. It will definitely result in more positive test results, it will very likely result in more hospitalizations and likely will result in more deaths. That all sucks, but unless we are staying closed until a vaccine I don't know how its avoidable. I'm all for mitigation but any opening of any kind has risk.

Agreed.  We clearly have to open up more and more.  But we have to mitigate.  Masking.  Disinfecting.  Distancing.

What bothers me most is seeing reports from bars and restaurants where the staff refuses to mask and everyone is sitting like they were before.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 24, 2020, 07:44:38 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 24, 2020, 05:30:53 AM

I thought this was interesting on how spread is occurring. 

 https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/21/opinions/south-korea-dance-class-covid19-outbreak-sepkowitz/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/21/opinions/south-korea-dance-class-covid19-outbreak-sepkowitz/index.html)

Fox version for those inclined (it’s the same)

 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/science/one-group-fitness-class-led-to-112-coronavirus-cases-in-south-korean-study-warns-as-societies-reopen.amp (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/science/one-group-fitness-class-led-to-112-coronavirus-cases-in-south-korean-study-warns-as-societies-reopen.amp)

I feel good about cancelling my gym membership after reading that. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 24, 2020, 07:51:56 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 24, 2020, 07:14:59 AM

I 100% get that people are nervous about opening up and that is absolutely going to be key to the economy restarting is people getting to participate in it but.....

If we don't start reopening, I don't know when do we? Reopening, even in a very controlled manner will come with Increased risk of exposure. It will definitely result in more positive test results, it will very likely result in more hospitalizations and likely will result in more deaths. That all sucks, but unless we are staying closed until a vaccine I don't know how its avoidable. I'm all for mitigation but any opening of any kind has risk.

We agree 100%.

I don’t post these polls as “proof” that we shouldn’t re-open. We pretty much have to do it, although I hope we do so gradually, and with plans in place to test, trace, etc.

I post them to show that the narrative some have that Americans are clamoring to re-open this instant, regardless of how and regardless of consequences, is simply not reflected by the research.

Most Americans remain VERY concerned. Unlike certain politicians, they are not ready to claim victory and go back to “normal,” whatever that is.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 24, 2020, 08:01:44 AM

Quote from: MU82 on May 24, 2020, 07:51:56 AM

We agree 100%.

I don’t post these polls as “proof” that we shouldn’t re-open. We pretty much have to do it, although I hope we do so gradually, and with plans in place to test, trace, etc.

I post them to show that the narrative some have that Americans are clamoring to re-open this instant, regardless of how and regardless of consequences, is simply not reflected by the research.

Most Americans remain VERY concerned. Unlike certain politicians, they are not ready to claim victory and go back to “normal,” whatever that is.

Make sense, I took your post to be an anti-open point, which was my mistake. I'm just seeing a ton of coverage leaning into the fear porn that is tying opening up to increases in positive test results(whether that is correlation without causation or not). We've(as a society) seemingly retreated to one of two corners, we're all gonna die or this a hoax.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 24, 2020, 08:19:57 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 24, 2020, 08:01:44 AM

We've(as a society) seemingly retreated to one of two corners, we're all gonna die or this a hoax.

Disagree, a bit. There definitely are extremes on both sides, and sometimes those voices are the loudest and get the most attention.
But every time I look around, I'm reminded that the whole "reopen vs stay closed" debate doesn't exist in reality and presents a false choice that, it seems, nobody is making.
Unless there's some jurisdiction of which I'm unaware - entirely possible - it seems that everyone is reopening. Different parts of the country are doing so with different timelines and with differing restrictions in place, but nobody is remaining completely shut down and nobody is back to normal. States with strict stay-at-home measures (Illinois, Cali, New York) are lifting them and, it seems, easing up one one aspect or another almost daily. States that were among the first to reopen (Georgia, Florida, Arizona) still have plenty of restrictions. And this makes sense, since not every state has been hit by the pandemic the same.
It appears the only outlier is Wisconsin which, thanks to a clownshow of a state supreme court, decided the Wild West approach was best.

And it seems the large majority of the public agrees with a measured approach to reopening ... a far cry from the notion that everybody is on one extreme or the other.
I guess what I'm saying is, don't buy into what the loudest, most extreme voices are selling. They are the fringe.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 24, 2020, 08:42:21 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 24, 2020, 08:01:44 AM

Make sense, I took your post to be an anti-open point, which was my mistake. I'm just seeing a ton of coverage leaning into the fear porn that is tying opening up to increases in positive test results(whether that is correlation without causation or not). We've(as a society) seemingly retreated to one of two corners, we're all gonna die or this a hoax.

We have to re-open. We simply cannot keep our economy shuttered for a year or whatever.

I like to think that we've learned a lot over these last 3 months about mitigation, good practices, etc. I wish we had better leadership on a national scale, but at least it appears most states have decent leadership on this issue.

I agree mostly with Pak about the extremes. Of course, it doesn't help things that the few thousand gun-toting, confederate-flag-waving science deniers are being called very good people by the president, who has declared victory and has moved on to other issues. Nor does it help that there are some at the other extreme. But I do believe the vast, vast majority of Americans favor gradual, sensible re-opening, even as they express some concerns.

There is zero way to proceed and have zero COVID-19 deaths, and I don't think anybody is so naive they believe that is a possibility.

What we need to avoid, at least for awhile, are situations that invite the virus to spread exponentially. Unfortunately, church services are one of those situations. So are political rallies, gyms, nightclubs, etc. It sucks. If I were a religious person, I'd want to get back inside my church. I wish I could use my gym and be reasonably concerned about its safety. I'd love to go listen to some rock 'n roll. But we all have to make sacrifices every day in life. We need to be smart, and to play the percentages.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 24, 2020, 08:48:00 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 24, 2020, 08:19:57 AM

Disagree, a bit. There definitely are extremes on both sides, and sometimes those voices are the loudest and get the most attention.
But every time I look around, I'm reminded that the whole "reopen vs stay closed" debate doesn't exist in reality and presents a false choice that, it seems, nobody is making.
Unless there's some jurisdiction of which I'm unaware - entirely possible - it seems that everyone is reopening. Different parts of the country are doing so with different timelines and with differing restrictions in place, but nobody is remaining completely shut down and nobody is back to normal. States with strict stay-at-home measures (Illinois, Cali, New York) are lifting them and, it seems, easing up one one aspect or another almost daily. States that were among the first to reopen (Georgia, Florida, Arizona) still have plenty of restrictions. And this makes sense, since not every state has been hit by the pandemic the same.
It appears the only outlier is Wisconsin which, thanks to a clownshow of a state supreme court, decided the Wild West approach was best.

And it seems the large majority of the public agrees with a measured approach to reopening ... a far cry from the notion that everybody is on one extreme or the other.
I guess what I'm saying is, don't buy into what the loudest, most extreme voices are selling. They are the fringe.

I completely agree, from a pragmatic approach the actual opening up is A) happening and B) doing so in a semi-controlled manner. my statement was more about the seemingly rhetorical positions this thread and other mediums in which the debate is taking place(news media, social media, etc). The breathless reporting I see about "single biggest day of positive results, one day after the {insert level of government} has eased restrictions" is driving me nuts. It's no wonder we have wing nuts who think this is a hoax, we don't seemingly have an ability to report on this stuff even in the mainstream of society

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 24, 2020, 09:34:45 AM

I agree with the last several posts – reopening has to take place, but it should take place in a measured, logical manner. Instead, we are seeing a haphazard, almost random reopening that makes almost everyone nervous. And it is happening under the watch of governors on both sides of the political spectrum; most are concerned about the health risks, but feeling both political and economic pressure to reopen. The result is a circus...which leads to the confused and sometimes contradictory poll results posted earlier (“the economy should re-open, but I don’t want to go out”).

The maddening part that is we actually had a plan that described a scientifically driven, logical approach. CDC wrote the plan, Trump advocated it for about 15 minutes, and then everyone abandoned it in favor of our current “chicken with its head cut off“ reopening strategy.

I am not saying the CDC plan is the only possibility. But we need something more logical and consistent than the haphazard and inconsistent plan we have now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 24, 2020, 10:43:30 AM

Quote from: MU82 on May 24, 2020, 07:51:56 AM

Most Americans remain VERY concerned. Unlike certain politicians, they are not ready to claim victory and go back to “normal,” whatever that is.

I don’t know if they really are or not. When my wife and I went to a park here to walk, the outdoor Beer Garden had opened and about 80 people were packed in. I did not see even one face with a mask on. This despite living in a Covid hotspot. On the way home, I stopped at a Home Depor with a long line waiting to go in. Only a few of those in line were wearing masks and the line was pretty closely bunched. I did not go in.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 24, 2020, 10:43:45 AM

Florida has reopened most businesses, at 50% capacity. Sounds reasonable right? Except have you ever read the capacity limits posted outside businesses? It’s pretty large. Stores may hit that 50% limit during Christmas time, but are rarely anywhere near that number in normal times.
And the challenge is that many of those stores have abandon things to make feel people more comfortable. We have a local popular seafood store. Used to be able to order and pay over phone with curbside pick up. Now that things have reopened, they stopped that service. You have to go in and interact with the people working behind the counter, then stand in cashier line and hand them your credit card. Their 50% capacity for that small store still could make it pretty packed.
When I was there, there was only one other customer, but if it was packed like it was pre virus, I would have hoped right out of there.
And interestingly enough, when they did the curbside, there was a line of cars all the time. Going inside at about same time, like I said, one other person. Could just be I hit it at the wrong time, but I can’t remember the last time I was in there with only one other customer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 24, 2020, 10:46:00 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 24, 2020, 07:14:59 AM

I 100% get that people are nervous about opening up and that is absolutely going to be key to the economy restarting is people getting to participate in it but.....

If we don't start reopening, I don't know when do we? Reopening, even in a very controlled manner will come with Increased risk of exposure. It will definitely result in more positive test results, it will very likely result in more hospitalizations and likely will result in more deaths. That all sucks, but unless we are staying closed until a vaccine I don't know how its avoidable. I'm all for mitigation but any opening of any kind has risk.

Is the reopening helping business? Particularly small business. If a lot of people don't think it is safe to go to the businesses, how many customers will these places see? The average person can get along fine with internet commerce.

I wonder how much reopening is helping. I doubt most places are getting enough customers to even cover payroll for being open.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 24, 2020, 11:09:33 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 24, 2020, 09:34:45 AM

(“the economy should re-open, but I don’t want to go out”).

The “economy should re-open” recognizes the economic realities of and the fallouts from a continued shutdown.

The “I don’t want to go out” recognizes a fear that (IMO) is legit for the most vulnerable (and those who must have contact with the most vulnerable) but overstated for the vast majority of the population. Again, only my opinion, but I think healthy people who follow protocols (wash hands, don’t touch your face, social distance, wear masks, etc.) have very little to fear. Panic was understandable wHen so little was known about COVID. That’s just not the case anymore.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 24, 2020, 11:23:01 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 24, 2020, 11:09:33 AM

The “economy should re-open” recognizes the economic realities of and the fallouts from a continued shutdown.

The “I don’t want to go out” recognizes a fear that (IMO) is legit for the most vulnerable (and those who must have contact with the most vulnerable) but overstated for the vast majority of the population. Again, only my opinion, but I think healthy people who follow protocols (wash hands, don’t touch your face, social distance, wear masks, etc.) have very little to fear. Panic was understandable wHen so little was known about COVID. That’s just not the case anymore.

Reasonable, Lenny.

Of course one problem is if you and I follow protocols but are surrounded by non-social-distancing, non-mask-wearing mouth-breathers who think that caring about others ranks a distant second to their “freedom.”

The easy response is to just avoid those people, but that’s not easy to do in practice. Unfortunately, mouth-breathing “freedom lovers” often don’t follow protocols even if a business demands it or if a states rules mandate it. I mean, sometimes they won’t even wear masks at the Mayo Clinic or in a mask factory!

Which leaves those who don’t want to be exposed two options: go out despite the risks; or stay in even though they might like to go out and help the economy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 24, 2020, 11:30:11 AM

I present to you, America's plan to reopen.  Don't click the video if you're afraid of naughty language.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0XBlNSxyrw

We're the worst planners in the world

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 24, 2020, 11:39:35 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/ericonederful/status/1262579559263727617

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 24, 2020, 12:19:51 PM

Quote from: wadesworld on May 24, 2020, 11:39:35 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/ericonederful/status/1262579559263727617

These things are funny but in reality everyone is in the same boat.  Almost all hard hit western countries are in some form of reopen. 

The question is did we put a good enough system in place to stay open.  Have we communicated enough on what is required.  Birx and now dewine are adding to the ND governors comments about masks today.  We are going to have to pull together if we want some semblance of an economy.   

That’s why open/closed is ancient history.  The question now is ‘have we made it safe enough for the consumer to spend’. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 24, 2020, 02:08:08 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 24, 2020, 11:23:01 AM

Reasonable, Lenny.

Of course one problem is if you and I follow protocols but are surrounded by non-social-distancing, non-mask-wearing mouth-breathers who think that caring about others ranks a distant second to their “freedom.”

Agreed. The approach that you and Lenny are talking about is completely reasonable, but it assumes that people who go out will follow the rules. Regrettably, we have all seen videos and pictures where huge crowds are gathering without masks or any remote attempt to social distance. And when the reasonable people who would like to go out see those images, many decide to stay inside until the numbers actually start decreasing more substantially...which might be quite a while.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 24, 2020, 02:30:12 PM

At a time when 100,000 Americans have died and we desperately need leadership, what is our leader doing?

Golfing and tweeting about Joe Scarborough murdering his intern. That's about it, unless you consider wanting to start nuclear testing again. Oh, and I also forgot - urging people to gather everywhere in large groups to spread the virus so he can suck up to the God people.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 24, 2020, 02:35:36 PM

Golfing, meh.   Hypocritical as hell since he spent 8 years bashing Obama for it, but other than they hypocrisy, not that big a deal.   Scarborough is just meat for the base.   It isn't going to get him a single vote, but it will keep the MAGAs fired up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 24, 2020, 03:25:57 PM

Quote from: tower912 on May 24, 2020, 02:35:36 PM

Golfing, meh.   Hypocritical as hell since he spent 8 years bashing Obama for it, but other than they hypocrisy, not that big a deal.   Scarborough is just meat for the base.   It isn't going to get him a single vote, but it will keep the MAGAs fired up.

And ironic given the fact that Scarborough gave Trump a huge platform for his run in 2016

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 24, 2020, 04:03:42 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 24, 2020, 03:25:57 PM

And ironic given the fact that Scarborough gave Trump a huge platform for his run in 2016

Friends who became bitter enemies.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on May 24, 2020, 04:21:12 PM

Quote from: Jockey on May 24, 2020, 02:30:12 PM

At a time when 100,000 Americans have died and we desperately need leadership, what is our leader doing?

Golfing and tweeting about Joe Scarborough murdering his intern. That's about it, unless you consider wanting to start nuclear testing again. Oh, and I also forgot - urging people to gather everywhere in large groups to spread the virus so he can suck up to the God people.

Would you rather have him making the plan?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 24, 2020, 04:28:33 PM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on May 24, 2020, 04:21:12 PM

Would you rather have him making the plan?

Great point, Unleash.

I would rather have any other prez - some would be better than others, but they all would at least be trying. They would all also show leadership qualities like honesty and empathy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 24, 2020, 04:34:47 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 24, 2020, 03:25:57 PM

And ironic given the fact that Scarborough gave Trump a huge platform for his run in 2016

Trump has no problem ripping people who helped put him into office. Look at his treatment of Jeff Sessions, who helped get him in with the religious right. Sessions simply followed the rules as AG, and Trump is now campaigning for his primary opponent.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 24, 2020, 04:46:24 PM

Quote from: Jockey on May 24, 2020, 04:28:33 PM

I would rather have any other prez

Even dead ones.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 24, 2020, 05:00:25 PM

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on May 24, 2020, 04:21:12 PM

Would you rather have him making the plan?

If golfing truly got him out of policymaking, I would personally pay his green fees. Unfortunately, he golfs and tweets all day long while others are working on a plan, then in an instant he undoes it all with another unhinged tweet.

Case in point: only hours after releasing the CDC reopening plan on April 16, he tweets about “liberating” Minnesota, Michigan and Virginia.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 24, 2020, 05:30:24 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 24, 2020, 05:00:25 PM

If golfing truly got him out of policymaking, I would personally pay his green fees. Unfortunately, he golfs and tweets all day long while others are working on a plan, then in an instant he undoes it all with another unhinged tweet.

Case in point: only hours after releasing the CDC reopening plan on April 16, he tweets about “liberating” Minnesota, Michigan and Virginia.

Actually, you already are, along with cart fees for him and his entourage.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 24, 2020, 05:38:48 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 24, 2020, 05:00:25 PM

If golfing truly got him out of policymaking, I would personally pay his green fees. Unfortunately, he golfs and tweets all day long while others are working on a plan, then in an instant he undoes it all with another unhinged tweet.

Case in point: only hours after releasing the CDC reopening plan on April 16, he tweets about “liberating” Minnesota, Michigan and Virginia.

I think this point has been made enough from multiple posters.  And it was 6 weeks ago.  We get it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 24, 2020, 07:25:16 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 24, 2020, 05:38:48 PM

I think this point has been made enough from multiple posters.  And it was 6 weeks ago.  We get it.

Policing repetition? The vast majority of everything on this thread has been stated previously. Like posters repeating ad nauseam how President Prevention did enough by limiting travel of Chinese citizens to the US.

You have to a lot of catch-up work to do....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 24, 2020, 07:57:03 PM

JFC, you guys are all pretty....can we move on?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 24, 2020, 08:04:10 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 24, 2020, 07:57:03 PM

JFC, you guys are all pretty....can we move on?

Sure. How about we put CDC in charge? How about officials enforce social distancing? How about governors follow the CDC guidelines for reopening?

‘Bout time we move in the right direction.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 24, 2020, 08:12:38 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 24, 2020, 07:57:03 PM

JFC, you guys are all pretty....can we move on?

As long as Trump is president The Resistance won’t (can’t) let that happen. He’s hyperbolic and plays fast and loose with the truth. Their answer is to do likewise.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 24, 2020, 08:18:57 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 24, 2020, 08:12:38 PM

As long as Trump is president The Resistance won’t (can’t) let that happen. He’s hyperbolic and plays fast and loose with the truth. Their answer is to do likewise.

Are you really saying that people who think Trump is doing a terrible job lie as much as he does? Shame.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 24, 2020, 08:27:19 PM

When did this place become polluted with Russian bots. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 24, 2020, 08:34:55 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 24, 2020, 07:25:16 PM

Policing repetition? The vast majority of everything on this thread has been stated previously. Like posters repeating ad nauseam how President Prevention did enough by limiting travel of Chinese citizens to the US.

You have to a lot of catch-up work to do....

Not singling you out for that particular talking point, but thanks for the hostility.  Productive. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on May 24, 2020, 08:35:13 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 24, 2020, 08:27:19 PM

When did this place become polluted with Russian bots. 

What do you think the “meat eaters” are?

Russian plants.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 24, 2020, 08:35:21 PM

Love how some people can't bring themselves to say the man is a liar.
These invariably tend to be the same people who fancy themselves non-PC truth tellers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 24, 2020, 08:45:18 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 24, 2020, 08:34:55 PM

Not singling you out for that particular talking point, but thanks for the hostility.  Productive.

No hostility. Just pointing out the obvious implications of your comment.

Peace.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 24, 2020, 08:48:14 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 24, 2020, 08:35:21 PM

Love how some people can't bring themselves to say the man is a liar.
These invariably tend to be the same people who fancy themselves non-PC truth tellers.

I said he was hyperbolic and plays fast and loose with the truth. IOW, he lies.

So does the Resistance.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 24, 2020, 08:50:18 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 24, 2020, 08:48:14 PM

I said he was hyperbolic and plays fast and loose with the truth. IOW, he lies.

So does the Resistance.

Euphemisms (and generous ones at that) and whataboutism.
Just say liar. It's not hard, and it's not a lie.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on May 24, 2020, 08:51:48 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 24, 2020, 08:48:14 PM

I said he was hyperbolic and plays fast and loose with the truth. IOW, he lies.

So does the Resistance.

Tu quoque

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 24, 2020, 09:00:00 PM

This seems like Great news For ease of care once a patient is stable.

 https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-24/covid-19-patients-not-infectious-after-11-days-singapore-study (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-24/covid-19-patients-not-infectious-after-11-days-singapore-study)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 24, 2020, 09:07:43 PM

Former trump admin official opinion piece.  Interesting learnings in treatment but also critique of our current response/action

 https://www.wsj.com/articles/cut-through-the-fog-of-coronavirus-war-11589738903?redirect=amp#click=https://t.co/czrAE705FK (https://www.wsj.com/articles/cut-through-the-fog-of-coronavirus-war-11589738903?redirect=amp#click=https://t.co/czrAE705FK)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 24, 2020, 09:25:20 PM

Quote from: Jockey on May 24, 2020, 08:18:57 PM

Are you really saying that people who think Trump is doing a terrible job lie as much as he does? Shame.

Jockey

That’s not remotely what I said or what I think.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 24, 2020, 09:35:12 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 24, 2020, 08:12:38 PM

As long as Trump is president The Resistance won’t (can’t) let that happen. He’s hyperbolic and plays fast and loose with the truth. Their answer is to do likewise.

Lol!

I heard he's just sarcastic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 24, 2020, 09:44:57 PM

JFC

@realDonaldTrump: Schools in our country should be opened ASAP. Much very good information now available. @SteveHiltonx @FoxNews

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 24, 2020, 10:13:45 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 24, 2020, 09:44:57 PM

JFC

@realDonaldTrump: Schools in our country should be opened ASAP. Much very good information now available. @SteveHiltonx @FoxNews

Maybe he should go back to school. Much very good education there.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 24, 2020, 10:29:03 PM

Quote from: wadesworld on May 24, 2020, 09:35:12 PM

Lol!

I heard he's just sarcastic.

Sometimes he is that, too.

Some can’t (or won’t) see/acknowledge the difference between sarcasm, hyperbole and lying. The Resistance are literalists, like the people who believe the earth is 5000 years old.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 24, 2020, 10:30:46 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 24, 2020, 10:29:03 PM

Sometimes he is that, too.

Some can’t (or won’t) see/acknowledge the difference between sarcasm, hyperbole and lying. The Resistance are literalists, like the people who believe the earth is 5000 years old.

Trump is definitely, definitely a sarcastic guy. The picture of sarcasm even.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 24, 2020, 10:58:58 PM

Quote from: wadesworld on May 24, 2020, 10:30:46 PM

Trump is definitely, definitely a sarcastic guy. The picture of sarcasm even.

Definitely. Too bad it goes over some people’s heads, a’ina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on May 25, 2020, 01:17:08 AM

Quote from: forgetful on May 24, 2020, 10:13:45 PM

Maybe he should go back to school. Much very good education there.

I heard he is going to  reopen Trump University

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 25, 2020, 09:09:01 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 24, 2020, 10:58:58 PM

Definitely. Too bad it goes over some people’s heads, a’ina?

Or he is in his late 70s, overs stressed, and he can't keep his lies straight.

What about the man screams intelligent?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 25, 2020, 09:10:58 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 24, 2020, 10:58:58 PM

Definitely. Too bad it goes over some people’s heads, a’ina?

The man is as sarcastic as he is humble.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 25, 2020, 10:08:47 AM

President Donald Trump threatened Monday morning to move August’s Republican National Convention from Charlotte if the state is not able to commit to “full attendance” at the convention.

Vice President Mike Pence also said Monday morning the convention could be moved due to the pace of the state’s reopening process.

North Carolina is currently in Phase Two of its coronavirus reopening plan. Indoor gatherings are limited to 10 people. Before the virus, the RNC was expected to bring 50,000 people to Charlotte for events connected to the convention.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article242977161.html?

See ya! Given that Charlotte actually bid against itself to host the convention because no other city really wanted it, and given that polls have shown most people here don't even want NarcissistFest to invade our community ...

Enjoy holding your event in Paducah!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 25, 2020, 10:21:22 AM

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/01/27/coronavirus-donald-trump-made-us-less-prepared-joe-biden-column/4581710002/

Talk about calling your shot... check the date this was published.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 25, 2020, 10:22:46 AM

Quote from: MU82 on May 25, 2020, 10:08:47 AM

President Donald Trump threatened Monday morning to move August’s Republican National Convention from Charlotte if the state is not able to commit to “full attendance” at the convention.

Vice President Mike Pence also said Monday morning the convention could be moved due to the pace of the state’s reopening process.

North Carolina is currently in Phase Two of its coronavirus reopening plan. Indoor gatherings are limited to 10 people. Before the virus, the RNC was expected to bring 50,000 people to Charlotte for events connected to the convention.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article242977161.html?

See ya! Given that Charlotte actually bid against itself to host the convention because no other city really wanted it, and given that polls have shown most people here don't even want NarcissistFest to invade our community ...

Enjoy holding your event in Paducah!

It would be irresponsible and very disappointing if either party held its convention this year, at least in a large-scale, in-person format. The conventions were created to nominate the respective parties' candidates and to adopt a party platform. We already know that it will be Trump and Pence vs Biden and whomever he chooses. The rest is just a high school pep rally with people in suits.

Have Trump and a few supporters give televised speeches before a small gathering, have Biden and his supporters do the same, and get on with the election.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on May 25, 2020, 10:23:51 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 24, 2020, 10:58:58 PM

Definitely. Too bad it goes over some people’s heads, a’ina?

Sure hope this is sarcasm.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 25, 2020, 10:27:11 AM

Quote from: tower912 on May 25, 2020, 10:21:22 AM

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/01/27/coronavirus-donald-trump-made-us-less-prepared-joe-biden-column/4581710002/

Talk about calling your shot... check the date this was published.

Wow - this pretty much shoots down Trump's argument that nobody could have seen this coming before late February or early March, huh?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 25, 2020, 10:33:48 AM

Joe is past his prime.   And he is going to occasionally say some really stupid crap.    But he crushed this one.   




Oh, and presidential golfing is like deficits.    It only matters when the other party is doing it.      Bush 41, Clinton, Bush 43, Obama, Trump all golf or golfed.   The opposing nattering nabobs always complained.  Liberals about the R's.   Conservatives about the D's.   Trump tweeted multiple times about Obama golfing.    Maybe it is because I am golf obsessed, but I honestly cannot get that worked up about the chief executive golfing.     

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 25, 2020, 11:37:33 AM

Quote from: tower912 on May 25, 2020, 10:21:22 AM

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/01/27/coronavirus-donald-trump-made-us-less-prepared-joe-biden-column/4581710002/

Talk about calling your shot... check the date this was published.

That's the thing about good government: when it works like it is supposed to and is effective it seldom gets noticed. The hard work of establishing agencies, having the right people with the right skills, having them properly funded and prepared, generally gets met with a shoulder shrug if it gets noticed at all when, for example, the Ebola outbreak is effectively dealt with.

Then you have a bloviating know-nothing intentionally and maliciously tear it all down and blame his predecessor (and everyone else except himself) for all his failures.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 25, 2020, 11:44:41 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 24, 2020, 08:35:21 PM

Love how some people can't bring themselves to say the man is a liar.
These invariably tend to be the same people who fancy themselves non-PC truth tellers.

Makes me think of this from a Washington Post OP-Ed:

"If you gave many Republicans in Washington truth serum, they’d say, “Of course he’s unfit to be president. Of course he’s corrupt, of course he’s incompetent, of course he’s the most dishonest person ever to step into the Oval Office. But I can live with that, because him being reelected means Republicans keep power, we get more conservative judges and we get all the policies we favor.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 25, 2020, 01:34:20 PM

Quote from: tower912 on May 25, 2020, 10:33:48 AM

Joe is past his prime.   And he is going to occasionally say some really stupid crap.    But he crushed this one.   




Oh, and presidential golfing is like deficits.    It only matters when the other party is doing it.      Bush 41, Clinton, Bush 43, Obama, Trump all golf or golfed.   The opposing nattering nabobs always complained.  Liberals about the R's.   Conservatives about the D's.   Trump tweeted multiple times about Obama golfing.    Maybe it is because I am golf obsessed, but I honestly cannot get that worked up about the chief executive golfing.   

43 stopped golfing once the war on terror started. 

https://presidentialgolftracker.com/georgewbush/ (https://presidentialgolftracker.com/georgewbush/)

He also defended Obama golfing, so  criticizing the president golfing is as partisan as tower mentions.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: withoutbias on May 25, 2020, 01:43:26 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 25, 2020, 01:34:20 PM

43 stopped golfing once the war on terror started. 

https://presidentialgolftracker.com/georgewbush/ (https://presidentialgolftracker.com/georgewbush/)

He also defended Obama golfing, so  criticizing the president golfing is as partisan as tower mentions.

Of course, the difference being only one president won an election by making one of his three key points to rile up the ignorant was “I will be too busy working for you to golf,” after spending 8 years Tweeting about the his predecessor’s golfing habits. Shockingly Trump has delivered on 0 of the 3 things he promised to get his blindly loyal following fired up. Who could’ve seen that coming?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 25, 2020, 01:48:54 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 25, 2020, 01:34:20 PM

43 stopped golfing once the war on terror started. 

https://presidentialgolftracker.com/georgewbush/ (https://presidentialgolftracker.com/georgewbush/)

He also defended Obama golfing, so  criticizing the president golfing is as partisan as tower mentions.

In general I agree, but I think there are two things you can very much criticize him for:

1) Trump repeatedly criticized Obama for how much golf he played, and he vowed that he would be too busy to golf if he was president. So, both hypocrite and liar, but that is par for the course (ahem).

2) The cost: It is estimated Obama spent $88M on golf over his 8 years. Per Forbes, in 3.5 years Trump has spent $340M. This is a function of both the number of times they golfed (Trump more than 3 times as much) and where. Obama golfed at military courses more than 60% of the time, whereas Trump forces taxpayers to pay him and his properties exorbitant  sums of money. So, massive grifter taking your taxpayer money and putting it directly in his own pocket while doing so at a frequency that would make anyone with an ounce of shame blush.

Edit: Link: https://www.quora.com/How-much-did-Obama-spend-on-golf-during-his-presidency

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 25, 2020, 03:14:31 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on May 25, 2020, 01:48:54 PM

In general I agree, but I think there are two things you can very much criticize him for:
1) Trump repeatedly criticized Obama for how much golf he played, and he vowed that he would be too busy to golf if he was president. So, both hypocrite and liar, but that is par for the course (ahem).
2) The cost: It is estimated Obama spent $88M on gold over his 8 years. Per Forbes, in 3.5 years Trump has spent $340M. This is a function of both the number of times they golfed (Trump more than 3 times as much) and where. Obama golfed at military courses more than 60% of the time, whereas Trump forces taxpayers to pay him and his properties exorbitant  sums of money. So, massive grifter taking your taxpayer money and putting it directly in his own pocket while doing so at a frequency that would make anyone with an ounce of shame blush.

Edit: Link: https://www.quora.com/How-much-did-Obama-spend-on-golf-during-his-presidency

I was only talking about GWB, but thanks for the effort to froth at the mouth about Trump again.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 25, 2020, 03:15:14 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on May 25, 2020, 01:48:54 PM

In general I agree, but I think there are two things you can very much criticize him for:
1) Trump repeatedly criticized Obama for how much golf he played, and he vowed that he would be too busy to golf if he was president. So, both hypocrite and liar, but that is par for the course (ahem).
2) The cost: It is estimated Obama spent $88M on gold over his 8 years. Per Forbes, in 3.5 years Trump has spent $340M. This is a function of both the number of times they golfed (Trump more than 3 times as much) and where. Obama golfed at military courses more than 60% of the time, whereas Trump forces taxpayers to pay him and his properties exorbitant  sums of money. So, massive grifter taking your taxpayer money and putting it directly in his own pocket while doing so at a frequency that would make anyone with an ounce of shame blush.

Edit: Link: https://www.quora.com/How-much-did-Obama-spend-on-golf-during-his-presidency

I figured the difference would be significant, but that is just mind-boggling. Trump spends almost 9x as much per year?!? Wow...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 25, 2020, 03:46:22 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 25, 2020, 03:15:14 PM

I figured the difference would be significant, but that is just mind-boggling. Trump spends almost 9x as much per year?!? Wow...

And much of that money went into his pockets as he golfs at his resorts.
Look at just golf cart rentals for secret service.
The Secret Service has spent more than $765,000 on golf carts to protect Donald Trump

https://thegolfnewsnet.com/golfnewsnetteam/2020/05/17/the-secret-service-has-spent-more-than-765000-dollars-on-golf-carts-to-protect-donald-trump-111647/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on May 25, 2020, 05:29:35 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 25, 2020, 03:14:31 PM

I was only talking about GWB, but thanks for the effort to froth at the mouth about Trump again.

Factual information presented well = frothing at the mouth. Trump has trained you well and you have fallen for it hook, line, sinker.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 25, 2020, 05:55:09 PM

Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on May 25, 2020, 05:29:35 PM

Factual information presented well = frothing at the mouth. Trump has trained you well and you have fallen for it hook, line, sinker.

I was talking about George Bush.   Also how he defended the Messiah's many rounds of golf.  Nothing to do with Trump.

Like pavlov's dog, tsmith has a rambling comment towards me about trump.  Not what i was talking about, but he's one of the smartest people here so he'll learn us all.

As to your comments, what are you babbling about? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 25, 2020, 06:13:11 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 25, 2020, 03:14:31 PM

I was only talking about GWB, but thanks for the effort to froth at the mouth about Trump again.

Sorry I offended your oh so delicate sensibilities. Poor delicate flower, I'll try not to tax you with actual information.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 25, 2020, 06:41:19 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on May 25, 2020, 06:13:11 PM

Sorry I offended your oh so delicate sensibilities. Poor delicate flower, I'll try not to tax you with actual information.

Naw dude, you convinced me with your internet arguements.  I'm fully converted to your viewpoints.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on May 25, 2020, 07:22:55 PM

Well, I think I've identified one downside of "safer memorial day at home"...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 25, 2020, 08:42:36 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 25, 2020, 10:22:46 AM

It would be irresponsible and very disappointing if either party held its convention this year, at least in a large-scale, in-person format. The conventions were created to nominate the respective parties' candidates and to adopt a party platform. We already know that it will be Trump and Pence vs Biden and whomever he chooses. The rest is just a high school pep rally with people in suits.

Have Trump and a few supporters give televised speeches before a small gathering, have Biden and his supporters do the same, and get on with the election.

Biden already has said that for the safety of his fellow American citizens, the Dem convention probably either will have to be altered significantly or changed to a virtual event.

President Pandemic, who has complained 100 times about being deprived of his rallies, could give a rat’s rump about the health of his fellow Americans. He just wants to hear 50K people screaming his name and see them bowing to their emperor.

Character revealed. Again.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 25, 2020, 09:25:33 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 25, 2020, 03:15:14 PM

I figured the difference would be significant, but that is just mind-boggling. Trump spends almost 9x as much per year?!? Wow...

Obama took 3.2 million in salary as president. Trump has taken nothing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 25, 2020, 09:31:03 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 25, 2020, 09:25:33 PM

Obama took 1.6 million in salary as president. Trump has taken nothing.

Great.  We are getting a steal

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 25, 2020, 09:34:38 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 25, 2020, 09:25:33 PM

Obama took 1.6 million in salary as president. Trump has taken nothing.

Correct.
I mean, the $1.2 million (at least) in federal money (and counting) he's directed into his companies isn't technically salary.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 25, 2020, 09:40:25 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 25, 2020, 09:34:38 PM

Correct.
I mean, the $1.2 million (at least) in federal money (and counting) he's directed into his companies isn't technically salary.

Math error on my part. President Obama made 3.2 million in salary.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 25, 2020, 09:43:13 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 25, 2020, 09:25:33 PM

Obama took 3.2 million in salary as president. Trump has taken nothing.

Well that certainly makes up for the millions upon millions he has pocketed from golf alone.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 25, 2020, 09:48:46 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 25, 2020, 09:40:25 PM

Math error on my part. President Obama made 3.2 million in salary.

Fascinating and very on topic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 25, 2020, 09:54:11 PM

Give me competent leadership and you can pay him whatever salaries and spend whatever amount of money on golfing as the guy wants.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 25, 2020, 09:57:01 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 25, 2020, 09:25:33 PM

Obama took 3.2 million in salary as president. Trump has taken nothing.

And that is supposed to make up for a $252 million difference in golf spending?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 25, 2020, 10:01:38 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 25, 2020, 09:48:46 PM

Fascinating and very on topic.

I concede it’s stupid. But if Smitty is keeping score he should include everything.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 25, 2020, 10:12:55 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 25, 2020, 09:40:25 PM

Math error on my part. President Obama made 3.2 million in salary.

Trump can afford to give up his salary.  Honestly, I could not care one bit about how much someone makes prior to becoming a public servant, but how so many of these people become millionaires after they are public servants is where the real investigations should be. The level of corruption in both political parties and our system is grotesque. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 25, 2020, 10:49:51 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 25, 2020, 10:12:55 PM

Trump can afford to give up his salary.  Honestly, I could not care one bit about how much someone makes prior to becoming a public servant, but how so many of these people become millionaires after they are public servants is where the real investigations should be. The level of corruption in both political parties and our system is grotesque.

Amen.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 26, 2020, 07:53:42 AM

I wouldn't care if Trump took a salary.  I would prefer that than retweeting conspiracy theories about former U.S. respresentatives murdering their staff members.  But I guess my standards are too high.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 26, 2020, 08:02:02 AM

Situation must be improving if all we have left to is debate whether Trump is an idiot.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 26, 2020, 08:02:46 AM

I thought this was a good article.

 https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-doesnt-have-to-be-so-deadly-just-look-at-hong-kong-and-singapore-11590491418?mod=e2fb (https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-doesnt-have-to-be-so-deadly-just-look-at-hong-kong-and-singapore-11590491418?mod=e2fb)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 26, 2020, 08:48:54 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 26, 2020, 08:02:46 AM

I thought this was a good article.

 https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-doesnt-have-to-be-so-deadly-just-look-at-hong-kong-and-singapore-11590491418?mod=e2fb (https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-doesnt-have-to-be-so-deadly-just-look-at-hong-kong-and-singapore-11590491418?mod=e2fb)

The concept is correct but it is not something that would work in western society. Authoritarian regimes are always going to have an advantage in pandemics because they can dictate to the citizenry how to behave. Under no reasonable scenario could we get to something on the order of 150 Million tests conducted a day and "locking folks up" who test positive for 14 days. It works but it just isn't practical for the US.

Side note, we also could have reduced our death toll if we just hadn't put infected patients back into nursing/assisted living facilities. If we had locked down sooner we would have seen better results, and if we had pushed masks/spacing consistently from the start we would have been better off as well.

This isn't a conspiracy theory per se, but I think 5 years from now we're going to look back on the Imperial College modeling from the early days as A) a tipping point that got us into a lockdown (good) and B) and a wild overreaction that killed people because governments assumed catastrophic hospitalization needs that created choices that ultimately killed more than saved (ie NY saving the Jaffit Center and Comfort for net new patients that never showed versus putting at-risk patients there for recovery instead of nursing homes)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 26, 2020, 08:54:26 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 26, 2020, 08:48:54 AM

The concept is correct but it is not something that would work in western society. Authoritarian regimes are always going to have an advantage in pandemics because they can dictate to the citizenry how to behave. Under no reasonable scenario could we get to something on the order of 150 Million tests conducted a day and "locking folks up" who test positive for 14 days. It works but it just isn't practical for the US.

Side note, we also could have reduced our death toll if we just hadn't put infected patients back into nursing/assisted living facilities. If we had locked down sooner we would have seen better results, and if we had pushed masks/spacing consistently from the start we would have been better off as well.

This isn't a conspiracy theory per se, but I think 5 years from now we're going to look back on the Imperial College modeling from the early days as A) a tipping point that got us into a lockdown (good) and B) and a wild overreaction that killed people because governments assumed catastrophic hospitalization needs that created choices that ultimately killed more than saved (ie NY saving the Jaffit Center and Comfort for net new patients that never showed versus putting at-risk patients there for recovery instead of nursing homes)

This is entirely possible.  We should also be cautious in assuming we’re anywhere near the end.  This thing can still mutate and resurface.  That doesn’t mean keeping a lockdown but aggressive reaction to outbreaks and tracing contacts. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 26, 2020, 08:56:35 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 26, 2020, 08:48:54 AM

The concept is correct but it is not something that would work in western society. Authoritarian regimes are always going to have an advantage in pandemics because they can dictate to the citizenry how to behave.

Man, Brazil is not only authoritarian, but they are terrible authoritarians.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 26, 2020, 09:02:24 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 26, 2020, 08:48:54 AM

NY saving the Jaffit Center and Comfort for net new patients that never showed versus putting at-risk patients there for recovery instead of nursing homes.

This inaccurately reports on why there weren't patients at the Jaffit and Comfort hospitals. At first, the federal government forbid any Covid patients, saying they were not equipped to handle them.

They then allowed recovering patients, but with a bizarre and lengthy 25-point checklist to get them admitted. Essentially no-one fit the feds 25-point admission checklist. So very few patients could be sent there.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 26, 2020, 09:07:11 AM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 26, 2020, 08:54:26 AM

This is entirely possible.  We should also be cautious in assuming we’re anywhere near the end.  This thing can still mutate and resurface.  That doesn’t mean keeping a lockdown but aggressive reaction to outbreaks and tracing contacts.

Yep.

https://apnews.com/86b061844589b6e3f218007544d0de80

“Right now, we’re not in the second wave. We’re right in the middle of the first wave globally,” said Dr. Mike Ryan, the World Health Organization’s executive director.

———————-

This will still be a big deal in 2021. As other areas of the world (some that we know about and some we may not) experience first waves long after we are done with ours, travel will eventually bring cases back here when our guard is down.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 26, 2020, 09:13:56 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 26, 2020, 08:48:54 AM

The concept is correct but it is not something that would work in western society. Authoritarian regimes are always going to have an advantage in pandemics because they can dictate to the citizenry how to behave. Under no reasonable scenario could we get to something on the order of 150 Million tests conducted a day and "locking folks up" who test positive for 14 days. It works but it just isn't practical for the US.

Mostly I was interested in the concept to reduce deaths - not physical deployment in a city-state.

We should be able to and be open to self-quarantine for 14 days on a positive test.  Personally, I would do it to avoid the blunt edge or economic carnage of broad 'shut downs'. 

I think the bigger issue though is having the means/safety net to do it.  I am sure for some it is mindset/selfishness or willingness to pull together, but I would like to think it is more the economic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 26, 2020, 09:15:59 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 26, 2020, 09:07:11 AM

Yep.

https://apnews.com/86b061844589b6e3f218007544d0de80

“Right now, we’re not in the second wave. We’re right in the middle of the first wave globally,” said Dr. Mike Ryan, the World Health Organization’s executive director.

———————-

This will still be a big deal in 2021. As other areas of the world (some that we know about and some we may not) experience first waves long after we are done with ours, travel will eventually bring cases back here when our guard is down.

My hope is, since we’ve identified that this is a pandemic, the people tackling it in labs are given all the resources necessary to help us mitigate it moving forward.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 26, 2020, 09:19:57 AM

For everyone that has an opinion about the field hospital that was setup in NYC, they may want to get the name right.

https://javitscenter.com/about/ (https://javitscenter.com/about/)

And the man behind the name.

https://www.nytimes.com/1986/03/08/obituaries/jacob-javits-dies-in-florida-at-81-4-term-senator-from-new-york.html (https://www.nytimes.com/1986/03/08/obituaries/jacob-javits-dies-in-florida-at-81-4-term-senator-from-new-york.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 26, 2020, 09:23:45 AM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 26, 2020, 09:15:59 AM

My hope is, since we’ve identified that this is a pandemic, the people tackling it in labs are given all the resources necessary to help us mitigate it moving forward.

I am certain that plenty of resources are being put toward finding effective treatments or even cures. However, the same was true of HIV back in the 80s, and it took a few years to really be able to treat the illness successfully.

Yes, I know these are two very different diseases (both in terms of contagiousness and demographics), but it shows the difficulty in finding effective treatments for viral illnesses.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 26, 2020, 09:33:10 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 26, 2020, 09:19:57 AM

For everyone that has an opinion about the field hospital that was setup in NYC, they may want to get the name right.

https://javitscenter.com/about/ (https://javitscenter.com/about/)

And the man behind the name.

https://www.nytimes.com/1986/03/08/obituaries/jacob-javits-dies-in-florida-at-81-4-term-senator-from-new-york.html (https://www.nytimes.com/1986/03/08/obituaries/jacob-javits-dies-in-florida-at-81-4-term-senator-from-new-york.html)

eh, I'm typing fast and as long as someone doesn't misspell Dwyane Wade's name, I'm not gonna be correcting anyone's grammar/spelling.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 26, 2020, 09:34:45 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 26, 2020, 09:33:10 AM

eh, I'm typing fast and as long as someone doesn't misspell Dwyane Wade's name, I'm not gonna be correcting anyone's grammar/spelling.

That one...and Markus (not Marcus).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 26, 2020, 09:41:59 AM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 26, 2020, 08:54:26 AM

This is entirely possible.  We should also be cautious in assuming we’re anywhere near the end.  This thing can still mutate and resurface.  That doesn’t mean keeping a lockdown but aggressive reaction to outbreaks and tracing contacts.

totally agree, I want it known I am not a "fling the doors open, let's go guy." In fact I got into some verbal fights with some friends who invited me out to a bar this weekend and I told them that not only was I not going they were not being smart in going. It is inevitable that as we open up, no matter how controlled, we will see an increase in infections, hospitalizations and potentially deaths. I think a true second wave is likely in the fall, but if we aren't careful we'll see that wave hit sooner. I suspect that over the summer we will see a plateau of infections and deaths, then depending on where we stand on everything a second wave, but no idea if it will be worse, better, same as the first wave.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 26, 2020, 09:44:20 AM

Quote from: forgetful on May 26, 2020, 09:02:24 AM

This inaccurately reports on why there weren't patients at the Jaffit and Comfort hospitals. At first, the federal government forbid any Covid patients, saying they were not equipped to handle them.

They then allowed recovering patients, but with a bizarre and lengthy 25-point checklist to get them admitted. Essentially no-one fit the feds 25-point admission checklist. So very few patients could be sent there.

Got a link, hadn't seen anything on that. I've seen extensive reporting on New York, Pennsylvania, and Michigan choosing to put infected patients back into nursing facilities but I haven't seen any reporting on justifications for the move other than a need to free up hospital beds for incoming patients.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 26, 2020, 09:48:11 AM

Something I would probably throw in the Wisconsin thread but some y'all decided to get it quarantined for the second time in two weeks....

Anyone know why MKE (city and county) decided not to centralize their Covid patients into the State Fair facility once it was completed and get them out of the standard hospitals? It just strikes me there would have been some economies of scale and management advantages to centralizing and enabling the hospitals to "return to normal" sooner.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 26, 2020, 09:53:55 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 26, 2020, 09:48:11 AM

Something I would probably throw in the Wisconsin thread but some y'all decided to get it quarantined for the second time in two weeks....

Anyone know why MKE (city and county) decided not to centralize their Covid patients into the State Fair facility once it was completed and get them out of the standard hospitals? It just strikes me there would have been some economies of scale and management advantages to centralizing and enabling the hospitals to "return to normal" sooner.

I don’t know anything specific about the State Fair facility, but as someone who has worked in a hospital, it may come from the concern of providers about going into a drastically unfamiliar environment.

Even in a familiar facility, one big change can cause a lot of delay and confusion. As a case in point, we recently switched from one electronic medical record system to another. Even though everything else in the facility was exactly the same, this created all sorts of delays, confusion and anxiety among the entire staff. Now change that plus the entire layout, feel and staff of the facility and you can see how care would likely be less than optimal.

IMHO, temporary facilities like State Fair facility or the Javits Center are probably best used as avenues of last resort when there is quite literally no more room at the inn.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 26, 2020, 10:09:25 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 26, 2020, 09:44:20 AM

Got a link, hadn't seen anything on that. I've seen extensive reporting on New York, Pennsylvania, and Michigan choosing to put infected patients back into nursing facilities but I haven't seen any reporting on justifications for the move other than a need to free up hospital beds for incoming patients.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/09/usns-comfort-and-javits-center-mostly-empty-amid-coronavirus/

Feds say it is NY states complicated restrictions, NY state says the list was from the feds.

So here is my analysis on who is right. Usually, both are telling the truth, but getting to the origins of what they each mean is difficult. I always ask, who benefits.

NY state did not benefit at all from having more difficult restrictions, so my guess, is that when NY got the feds to accept patients, the Feds told them to draft guidelines that fit very specific restrictions.

So the final document came from the state, but the provisions were dictated by the Feds. The thing that is clear though is that it was an organizational disaster. First, the federal rule that there were to be no Covid patients, then the fact that the Federal facilities were not equipped (pharmacies etc.) to actually handle Covid patients.

Also, there were federal guidelines saying that nursing home patients "SHOULD" be returned to nursing homes if they did not require hospital care. Essentially all states were following those guidelines until May 7-10th. Like most things in this, the feds say they give guidelines, but it is the State's responsibility to individually decide what is right, and that they make the laws. So if it was a bad plan, that's the governors' fault.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 26, 2020, 10:12:58 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 26, 2020, 09:41:59 AM

totally agree, I want it known I am not a "fling the doors open, let's go guy." In fact I got into some verbal fights with some friends who invited me out to a bar this weekend and I told them that not only was I not going they were not being smart in going. It is inevitable that as we open up, no matter how controlled, we will see an increase in infections, hospitalizations and potentially deaths. I think a true second wave is likely in the fall, but if we aren't careful we'll see that wave hit sooner. I suspect that over the summer we will see a plateau of infections and deaths, then depending on where we stand on everything a second wave, but no idea if it will be worse, better, same as the first wave.

I wonder if we have a little scare this summer somewhere that helps us this fall (from a population mindset perspective).  I tend to think the biggest advantage we have for the fall is that we are just so much better prepared.  Awareness, PPE, testing capability, better idea of how to treat (even if no drug breakthrough).  Hopefully we will do a better job protecting the senior facilities as well.

Also, the Javits wasn't meant to be targeting you exclusively, its been something perpetuated throughout this thread many times....I figured someone would be curious about who the man was. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 26, 2020, 10:21:55 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 26, 2020, 10:12:58 AM

I wonder if we have a little scare this summer somewhere that helps us this fall (from a population mindset perspective).  I tend to think the biggest advantage we have for the fall is that we are just so much better prepared.  Awareness, PPE, testing capability, better idea of how to treat (even if no drug breakthrough).  Hopefully we will do a better job protecting the senior facilities as well.

Agree that there have been the very real advances you mention...and hope it plays out to our benefit. The big question mark is whether we also have a significant flu season to complicate and confuse things.

And - this is true on both sides of the aisle - I worry that the general public gets distracted from practicing the safeguards by the election. A few big election rallies or protests, or events around whatever conventions may be held could overcome any common sense learned behaviors. It would help if every state - red and blue - adopted easy and universal mail-in voting.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 26, 2020, 12:30:39 PM

I thought about putting in the Running thread on The Superbar, but it seems more relevant here.
AP Story.  The percentage increases are pretty incredible for the multiple outdoor activities.

---

LEISURE SPORTS
Americans are finding ways to stay active
ASSOCIATED PRESS
Jeff Roberson / Associated Press

PHOTO: A person jogs past a closed nightclub in St. Louis. Running is seeing an increase in participation since the coronavirus outbreak began.


Vicki L. Friedman always wanted to play golf with her adult sons but until this spring couldn’t find time to learn the game and practice.

Shaun Warkentin was looking for a diversion when his young sons tired of jumping on the backyard trampoline and being indoors. He discovered the joy of taking them fishing.

Neighborhood and park trails across the country have been getting higher-than-usual use by runners, walkers and bicyclists as people find ways to get fresh air while maintaining social distancing during the coronavirus outbreak.

Golf courses are welcoming more beginners and people returning to the game, states have seen robust sales of fishing licenses since the coronavirus hit full force in the U.S. in March and fitness tracking technology has shown a surge in the number of steps recorded.

Friedman, who lives in Chesapeake, Virginia, took up golf at age 54 after the community college where she works ordered employees to do their jobs from home. That gave her more than an extra hour a day she otherwise would spend commuting.

“When you see what’s happening around the world, you prioritize and ask yourself what are some of the things you want to do,” she said. “I’ve always been geared toward work. Right now you want to invest in yourself. What else do I want to do that is fun?”

Friedman goes to the driving range a couple of times a week, hits plastic wiffle golf balls in her backyard and, as a Mother’s Day gift from her son, went to a course for the first time and was treated to nine holes. She said on a recent afternoon she was about to play her fourth round in three weeks with the set of used clubs she bought for $30.

“This is a way we can spend time together outside,” she said. “It’s something new. I like sports, and it’s fun. It is more addicting than I would have ever dreamed.“ Through last week, rounds posted to the GHIN handicap-tracking app were up 22% this May compared with May 2019, according to the USGA. Posted rounds were up 8% for the year.

CommonGround in Aurora, a Denver-area facility operated by the Colorado Golf Association, reported almost 4,800 rounds played on its 18-hole course in April, compared with just over 3,100 the same month in 2019. The number of rounds played on its nine-hole course for beginners wasn’t available, but revenue from green fees was more than double what it was in April 2019, and for the first time reservations were required to ease congestion on the first tee.

National Golf Foundation president and CEO Joe Beditz said he’s hearing similar reports from around the country.

“Courses are seeing people they haven’t seen before or seen very much of,” he said. “They’re seeing husbands and wives plays, parents and kids. It’s kind of surprising to them because even with some restrictions in states, they are still finding themselves to be busier than a similar time of past years.”

Minnesota’s fishing permit sales of 354,080 from mid-February to the first week of May were up 45% over a comparable period in 2019 and the highest since 2000. Vermont had issued 21,270 permits through April, up 57%. Missouri for one month waived the requirement that anglers have a permit so residents could have a diversion during the pandemic.

“If there is a bright spot in this horrible COVID-19 tragedy, it’s the unprecedented interest from fathers, mothers, grandparents, aunts and uncles all wanting to take their family out to enjoy nature,” Bass Pro Shops founder and CEO Johnny Morris said in a statement.

Warkentin said he’s taken his sons Noah, 8, and Joe, 5, to fishing holes in and around Omaha, Nebraska, four or five times since school let out in March. Even on a chilly, windy day, they were at Carter Lake wetting their lines.

“We’re trying to get out, get some fresh air and learn some new skills,” Shaun said shortly before helping Joe reel in a tiny sunfish. “We’re kind of new to fishing. I’ve fished most of my life, but these guys haven’t done that much. It’s a cheap way to get outside and do something different.”

On a nearby bank, Lotplar Laywah of Omaha was wearing a facemask while fishing with his children and their cousins. The truck driver had no loads to deliver, so he suggested to the kids that they try fishing.

“The kids, all they do is watch TV and then they start fighting with one another and causing trouble, and mom really has to yell at them,” Laywah said. “So we go fishing.”

The simplest activities, like running and walking, are apparently popular, based on data generated by Garmin fitness tracker apps. Garmin reported steps recorded by U.S. walkers logging their activity was up 36% when comparing the first half of March with the second, when coronavirus-caused lockdowns began. Worldwide, logged activities like walking and running were up 24% in April compared with the same month in 2019.

Jean Knaack, executive director of the Road Runners Club of America, said the numbers reflect a combination of avid runners logging more miles than usual and people who aren’t regular runners giving it a try.

“I think if you look at community chatter, which isn’t super scientific, I would say most definitely there has been an uptick in running and walking during this pandemic, especially with places for exercise having been closed down like swimming pools, private gyms, public recreation spaces, basketball courts,” she said.

“I’ve lived in my neighborhood for 15 years and I’m like, ‘Who are all these people who are all over walking around and running around this neighborhood?’ I think it’s a sign people want to get out of their house, but I think people have a desire to run and exercise, and now they’re just afforded that time right now, even though that’s not the greatest way to get time, what we’ve all been going through.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 26, 2020, 01:16:55 PM

Putting COVID patients into nursing homes....  a bit of perspective...

My daughter works as an OT in what is listed as a nursing home in Maryland.     They have cordoned off wings of their facility to accept from hospitals recovering from COVID.    In my daughter's facility, there are nurses, a PT, OT and ST all assigned exclusively to this wing.    There is no co-mingling.     As of now, it is as if there are two entirely separate entities that happen to have the same address. 

As a first responder in Michigan, I can tell you that in my district there is both a nursing home and a Veteran's hospital.     Both have re-arranged their set ups so that there are COVID specific wings.     If a resident tests positive but does not require more advanced care, they are sent to the COVID wings.    If they were hospitalized but are now well enough to return, they are returned to the COVID wings until their recovery is as complete as it can be and they are no longer contagious.   

I cannot speak to how it was originally handled as I am sure there was as many strategies as there were municipalities.  (a consequence of no national plan)     I am sure that decisions were made that in hindsight look like mistakes.    The wise take these learning opportunities and build a better system for next time.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 26, 2020, 03:41:17 PM

https://twitter.com/BrennanSpiegel/status/1265119535901732865

Study showing that upcoming increases in cases in a particular community could be predicted by testing the municipality's sewage.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 26, 2020, 03:44:55 PM

That is so full of crap.   That really pisses me off.   

(c'mon, people.   Poop and pee jokes are always funny)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 26, 2020, 03:47:02 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 26, 2020, 03:41:17 PM

https://twitter.com/BrennanSpiegel/status/1265119535901732865

Study showing that upcoming increases in cases in a particular community could be predicted by testing the municipality's sewage.

Hey -- I contributed to that study!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 26, 2020, 03:53:33 PM

So where can we send our samples for testing? Sounds like it's Yale, ai'na?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 26, 2020, 04:08:42 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 26, 2020, 03:41:17 PM

https://twitter.com/BrennanSpiegel/status/1265119535901732865

Study showing that upcoming increases in cases in a particular community could be predicted by testing the municipality's sewage.

Always be science-ing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 26, 2020, 04:57:33 PM

Quote from: tower912 on May 26, 2020, 03:44:55 PM

That is so full of crap.   That really pisses me off.   

(c'mon, people.   Poop and pee jokes are always funny)

If they ever find out who leaked these findings that person is in deep sh!t.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 26, 2020, 05:42:47 PM

I wonder if they sent Andy Dufresne through?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 26, 2020, 06:16:42 PM

Quote from: tower912 on May 26, 2020, 05:42:47 PM

I wonder if they sent Andy Dufresne through?

How do you think they got the test results?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 26, 2020, 10:19:25 PM

Charlotte Observer encouraging the NC governor to call Trump's bluff about the GOP national convention. They say he should tell Trump: "Say no to a guarantee. Maybe it causes Trump to back down for a while. Or, even better, it might prompt the president to move the convention. That could be the best outcome – or at least the safest – for Charlotte."

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/opinion/editorials/article242978726.html?

I happen to agree.

And, for the record, I was in favor of the convention being held here. Even though I strongly dislike the corrupt emperor-wannabe who has co-opted the Republican party, I liked the idea of tens of thousands of people dumping money into our economy.

But there is absolutely no way to guarantee on May 27 what the coronavirus will look like here in 3 months. So if Trump must have an answer, right now, one way or another ... "Tweet ya later, President Pandemic."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 27, 2020, 08:54:41 AM

About a dozen U.S. states see an uptick in new cases.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/27/world/coronavirus-news.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage#link-615baa23

About a dozen U.S. states are seeing an uptick in new virus cases, bucking the national trend of staying steady or seeing decreases. At least half of the states seeing more infections were part of an early wave of reopenings in late April and early May, among them Alabama, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina and Tennessee.

----------------

Yes, I know it's possible that increased testing might explain some of this, but maybe it's another obvious factor....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 27, 2020, 08:57:48 AM

I think its obvious to most people that there would be an uptick in cases - even those who are "pro open."  The issue is how those cases are managed and the cost / benefit calculation involved.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 27, 2020, 09:01:25 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 27, 2020, 08:57:48 AM

I think its obvious to most people that there would be an uptick in cases - even those who are "pro open."  The issue is how those cases are managed and the cost / benefit calculation involved.

Understood. Just posting this as a data point along the way. The key will be whether this is a small and gradual blip, or the premature beginning of a second wave.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 27, 2020, 09:02:55 AM

Is there a site that posts trends on hospitalizations by state?  That seems to be more relevant now --in conjunction with the initial points of cases/deaths.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 27, 2020, 09:06:45 AM

And then there is this:

A used-car dealer was charged with fraud in a $45 million mask-selling scheme.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/27/nyregion/coronavirus-ny-live-updates.html?type=styln-live-updates&label=new%20york&index=2&action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage#link-3cabdc13

A New Jersey used-car dealer was arrested Tuesday and charged with wire fraud in connection to what prosecutors say was an audacious $45 million scheme to defraud and price-gouge New York City as cases of Covid-19 were skyrocketing.

The used-car dealer, Ronald J. Romano, posed as an authorized 3M dealer and offered to sell the city seven million masks at a more than 400 percent markup from their list price, according to a three-count criminal complaint unsealed in United States District Court in Manhattan.

------------

Pathetic loser.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 27, 2020, 09:19:41 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 27, 2020, 09:02:55 AM

Is there a site that posts trends on hospitalizations by state?  That seems to be more relevant now --in conjunction with the initial points of cases/deaths.

This site is the only one I have found that provides daily numbers of hospitalizations, but it's really cumbersome to use. You have to scroll down and then click on the state you're looking at, and you can see hospitalizations day by day.

https://covidtracking.com/data

Just using Alabama because it's first on the list, hospitalizations for the past few days are as follows:

5/26: 1671
5/25: 1629
5/24: 1612
5/23: 1589
5/22: 1561
5/21: 1528
5/20: 1493
5/19: 1453
5/18: 1416
5/17: 1392

So the hospitalizations have increased every day for that 10-day period.

Edit: In looking at more states, I have discovered that not all states list hospitalizations by day. If anyone else has a easy to use and comprehensive site for seeing hospitalization numbers by state, by day, I'd love to see it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 27, 2020, 09:33:58 AM

Here is a summary of data.  Looks like they used COVID Tracking Project, Harvard Global Health Institute;

https://www.axios.com/state-by-state-coronavirus-hospitalizations-04da87ed-476e-4dad-84ec-bd5db7a7bce7.html (https://www.axios.com/state-by-state-coronavirus-hospitalizations-04da87ed-476e-4dad-84ec-bd5db7a7bce7.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on May 27, 2020, 09:34:11 AM

This might have been posted before:

https://twitter.com/BrennanSpiegel/status/1265119535901732865 (https://twitter.com/BrennanSpiegel/status/1265119535901732865)

TLDR, they tested the sewage for a month in New Haven, CT for traces of COVID.  The curve they saw nearly matched 1:1 on COVID cases, but the poop testing was about 7 days ahead.


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EY6Z_9MU8AI-X5G?format=jpg&name=medium)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 27, 2020, 09:37:48 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 27, 2020, 09:06:45 AM

And then there is this:

A used-car dealer was charged with fraud in a $45 million mask-selling scheme.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/27/nyregion/coronavirus-ny-live-updates.html?type=styln-live-updates&label=new%20york&index=2&action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage#link-3cabdc13

A New Jersey used-car dealer was arrested Tuesday and charged with wire fraud in connection to what prosecutors say was an audacious $45 million scheme to defraud and price-gouge New York City as cases of Covid-19 were skyrocketing.

The used-car dealer, Ronald J. Romano, posed as an authorized 3M dealer and offered to sell the city seven million masks at a more than 400 percent markup from their list price, according to a three-count criminal complaint unsealed in United States District Court in Manhattan.

------------

Pathetic loser.

Smart capitalist

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 27, 2020, 09:39:44 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 27, 2020, 09:19:41 AM

This site is the only one I have found that provides daily numbers of hospitalizations, but it's really cumbersome to use. You have to scroll down and then click on the state you're looking at, and you can see hospitalizations day by day.

https://covidtracking.com/data

Just using Alabama because it's first on the list, hospitalizations for the past few days are as follows:

These are cumulative numbers Goooo....not current.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 27, 2020, 09:59:35 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 27, 2020, 09:33:58 AM

Here is a summary of data.  Looks like they used COVID Tracking Project, Harvard Global Health Institute;

https://www.axios.com/state-by-state-coronavirus-hospitalizations-04da87ed-476e-4dad-84ec-bd5db7a7bce7.html (https://www.axios.com/state-by-state-coronavirus-hospitalizations-04da87ed-476e-4dad-84ec-bd5db7a7bce7.html)

That is a nice summary. Unfortunately, ten states aren’t reporting, including many of the southeastern states that were the first to reopen (TN, AL, SC, GA).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 27, 2020, 10:00:13 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 27, 2020, 09:39:44 AM

These are cumulative numbers Goooo....not current.

You are correct. My bad.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 27, 2020, 10:42:41 AM

For the first time, I was accosted today for wearing a mask by a guy in a MAGA hat.   Nothing to do but laugh at him.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 27, 2020, 10:47:25 AM

Quote from: tower912 on May 27, 2020, 10:42:41 AM

For the first time, I was accosted today for wearing a mask by a guy in a MAGA hat.   Nothing to do but laugh at him.

Were you going about your own business wearing a mask and he decided it was offensive to him?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 27, 2020, 11:06:13 AM

We were filling our gas tanks at the same time, me wearing a mask, him a MAGA hat.  He felt the need to educate me.    Old enough to be my dad, driving a 30 yeah old pick up.   Checked a lot of cliche boxes.   I laughed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 27, 2020, 11:09:33 AM

New reporting from Gabriel Sherman confirms what we have long suspected: Trump sees himself as the biggest victim of the coronavirus pandemic:

As he headed into Memorial Day weekend, Donald Trump complained that he was COVID-19’s biggest victim. “He was just in a unnatural carnal knowledgeing rage,” said a person who spoke with Trump late last week. “He was saying, ‘This is so unfair to me! Everything was going great. We were cruising to reelection!” Even as the death toll neared 100,000 and unemployment ranks swelled to over 38 million, Trump couldn’t see the pandemic as anything other than something that had happened to him. “The problem is he has no empathy,” the adviser said. Trump complained that he should have been warned about the virus sooner. “The intelligence community let me down!” he said.


This is considered "being a great president" by some on Scoop.
In reality, it is shocking and pathetic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 27, 2020, 11:24:52 AM

Quote from: tower912 on May 27, 2020, 11:06:13 AM

We were filling our gas tanks at the same time, me wearing a mask, him a MAGA hat.  He felt the need to educate me.    Old enough to be my dad, driving a 30 yeah old pick up.   Checked a lot of cliche boxes.   I laughed.

Glad he didn't have a gun handy, and his emperor's quick-trigger response to everything and vindictiveness, when you laughed. Seriously.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on May 27, 2020, 11:39:59 AM

Trump's aversion to masks is such a unique driver for COVID, mask compliance and .. division.

It's hard to imagine Bizzaro World Trump who, like a reasonable human leader, encourages mask usage and wears one publicly.    Bizzaro World mask compliance is double+ what it is today, and COVID cases drop precipitously because we're all masked up, and it's just 2% of the tin-foil hat crowd who refuses.

I bet Bizzaro World doesn't have 2 for $6 Arby's, though, so we've got that going for us.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 27, 2020, 11:40:38 AM

Let him shoot.   Seriously.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 27, 2020, 12:02:08 PM

Interesting re-look at the start of the Washington outbreak

 https://www.statnews.com/2020/05/26/new-research-rewrites-history-of-when-covid-19-arrived-in-u-s-and-points-to-missed-chances-to-stop-it/ (https://www.statnews.com/2020/05/26/new-research-rewrites-history-of-when-covid-19-arrived-in-u-s-and-points-to-missed-chances-to-stop-it/)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 27, 2020, 01:36:46 PM

Quote from: Jockey on May 27, 2020, 11:09:33 AM

New reporting from Gabriel Sherman confirms what we have long suspected: Trump sees himself as the biggest victim of the coronavirus pandemic:

As he headed into Memorial Day weekend, Donald Trump complained that he was COVID-19’s biggest victim. “He was just in a unnatural carnal knowledgeing rage,” said a person who spoke with Trump late last week. “He was saying, ‘This is so unfair to me! Everything was going great. We were cruising to reelection!” Even as the death toll neared 100,000 and unemployment ranks swelled to over 38 million, Trump couldn’t see the pandemic as anything other than something that had happened to him. “The problem is he has no empathy,” the adviser said. Trump complained that he should have been warned about the virus sooner. “The intelligence community let me down!” he said.


This is considered "being a great president" by some on Scoop.
In reality, it is shocking and pathetic.

Sadly, this does not surprise me one bit.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lighthouse 84 on May 27, 2020, 02:08:23 PM

Quote from: tower912 on May 27, 2020, 11:06:13 AM

We were filling our gas tanks at the same time, me wearing a mask, him a MAGA hat.  He felt the need to educate me.    Old enough to be my dad, driving a 30 yeah old pick up.   Checked a lot of cliche boxes.   I laughed.

To clarify, you're saying he felt the need to educate you about (a) mask wearing or (b) that you should be wearing a MAGA hat?  Assuming he was within six feet of you, either way he'd be offensive.  If not within six feet of you, (b) is still offensive. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 27, 2020, 02:17:25 PM

Quote from: Lighthouse 84 on May 27, 2020, 02:08:23 PM

To clarify, you're saying he felt the need to educate you about (a) mask wearing or (b) that you should be wearing a MAGA hat?  Assuming he was within six feet of you, either way he'd be offensive.  If not within six feet of you, (b) is still offensive.

On the other side of the pump.   Mask wearing.    10 feet.   Amusing.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 27, 2020, 02:32:11 PM

Quote from: Jockey on May 27, 2020, 11:09:33 AM

New reporting from Gabriel Sherman confirms what we have long suspected: Trump sees himself as the biggest victim of the coronavirus pandemic:

As he headed into Memorial Day weekend, Donald Trump complained that he was COVID-19’s biggest victim. “He was just in a unnatural carnal knowledgeing rage,” said a person who spoke with Trump late last week. “He was saying, ‘This is so unfair to me! Everything was going great. We were cruising to reelection!” Even as the death toll neared 100,000 and unemployment ranks swelled to over 38 million, Trump couldn’t see the pandemic as anything other than something that had happened to him. “The problem is he has no empathy,” the adviser said. Trump complained that he should have been warned about the virus sooner. “The intelligence community let me down!” he said.


This is considered "being a great president" by some on Scoop.
In reality, it is shocking and pathetic.

Who the F is Gabriel Sherman? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 27, 2020, 02:41:53 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on May 27, 2020, 11:39:59 AM

Trump's aversion to masks is such a unique driver for COVID, mask compliance and .. division.

The guy is morbidly obese and he’s orange with a weird hairdo.

He’s worried a mask won’t look good on him.  Go figure.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 27, 2020, 04:49:53 PM

https://twitter.com/SquireForYou/status/1265553065056362497?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 27, 2020, 05:06:44 PM

So today we passed 100,000 official COVID-19 deaths in the US. A devastating milestone....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 27, 2020, 07:05:01 PM

It would seem appropriate for the President to say something about the devastating loss of human life. Is he going to say anything?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 27, 2020, 07:24:32 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 27, 2020, 07:05:01 PM

Is he going to say anything?

Investigate Scarborough.

Or celebrate layoffs.

I'm the victim.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 27, 2020, 07:26:00 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 27, 2020, 07:05:01 PM

It would seem appropriate for the President to say something about the devastating loss of human life. Is he going to say anything?

Nah ... President Pandemic is too busy plotting a way to shut down social media.

The emperor would rather pretend he has the authority over Twitter and Facebook than say something about this somber situation.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 27, 2020, 08:49:12 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on May 27, 2020, 04:49:53 PM

https://twitter.com/SquireForYou/status/1265553065056362497?s=19

Just looked into the background of those numbers a bit. It does indeed look like Florida has undercount COVID deaths by at least 2,000 deaths. Looks intentional too.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 27, 2020, 09:37:55 PM

Quote from: forgetful on May 27, 2020, 08:49:12 PM

Just looked into the background of those numbers a bit. It does indeed look like Florida has undercount COVID deaths by at least 2,000 deaths. Looks intentional too.

A number of states are cleaning up their reporting because of over stated cases.  Washington found a few that were suicide victims by gunshot that somehow were COVID deaths.  Another state had two murdered people counted as COVID related deaths.  The numbers will remain all over the place because some of this is political. I don't think it is a coincidence that blue states have higher COVID deaths and red states have lower ones - much of that because of population density.  Could it also be how governments are counting?  My conspiracy theory for the day.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/05/26/coronavirus-death-toll-is-heavily-concentrated-in-democratic-congressional-districts/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on May 27, 2020, 09:50:03 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 27, 2020, 02:32:11 PM

Who the F is Gabriel Sherman?

He's the guy who ended your buddy Roger Ailes' career, Sparky.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Loudest_Voice

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on May 27, 2020, 09:56:02 PM

[quote au
thor=GooooMarquette link=topic=59849.msg1245994#msg1245994 date=1590624301]
It would seem appropriate for the President to say something about the devastating loss of human life. Is he going to say anything?
[/quote]

trump's response:

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
"He is arguably the greatest president in our history.” Thank you @LouDobbs
!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 27, 2020, 09:59:05 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 27, 2020, 09:37:55 PM

A number of states are cleaning up their reporting because of over stated cases.  Washington found a few that were suicide victims by gunshot that somehow were COVID deaths.  Another state had two murdered people counted as COVID related deaths.  The numbers will remain all over the place because some of this is political. I don't think it is a coincidence that blue states have higher COVID deaths and red states have lower ones - much of that because of population density.  Could it also be how governments are counting?  My conspiracy theory for the day.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/05/26/coronavirus-death-toll-is-heavily-concentrated-in-democratic-congressional-districts/

We've been here done this. Science says that we are under-reporting COVID deaths. Look at Florida, which had a late season rush of pneumonia deaths in mid to late March that exceeded normals by 100's per day, all flu negative.

They recorded them all as pneumonia deaths, not CoVID even though they were almost assuredly COVID. They were also leaving out deaths with COVID on the death certificate if it also listed Pneumonia.

Again, Science says we are undercounting. This is more prevalent in Red states, where for political reasons they want the numbers lower.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 27, 2020, 10:02:17 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 27, 2020, 09:37:55 PM

A number of states are cleaning up their reporting because of over stated cases.  Washington found a few that were suicide victims by gunshot that somehow were COVID deaths.  Another state had two murdered people counted as COVID related deaths.  The numbers will remain all over the place because some of this is political. I don't think it is a coincidence that blue states have higher COVID deaths and red states have lower ones - much of that because of population density.  Could it also be how governments are counting?  My conspiracy theory for the day.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/05/26/coronavirus-death-toll-is-heavily-concentrated-in-democratic-congressional-districts/

Your pretend-to-be-a-Dem-but-act-like-a-right-winger act is getting boring.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on May 27, 2020, 10:02:48 PM

I'm wondering if America Bubicana is finally starting to wise up.Trump down to 43% in the pro right wing Rasmussen poll. its like even the Know Nothings do not approve of fighting the virus by accusing Scarborough of murder.

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/trump_approval_index_history

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: BM1090 on May 27, 2020, 11:28:18 PM

Probably the wrong thread but I didn't want to start a Texas thread.

I had to travel to Austin this week. Flying was less stressful than imagined. Planes were half full and the staff did a great job sanitizing everything. Boarded in smaller groups as well to keep social distancing. Attendants encouraged us to do our own wipedowns if we felt uncomfortable and came through to collect garbage far more frequently.

Texas is weird. The state is open but Austin has a stay at home through the end of May. However, businesses are opening up anyways. It's a free for all.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 28, 2020, 12:04:40 AM

Quote from: BM1090 on May 27, 2020, 11:28:18 PM

Probably the wrong thread but I didn't want to start a Texas thread.

I had to travel to Austin this week. Flying was less stressful than imagined. Planes were half full and the staff did a great job sanitizing everything. Boarded in smaller groups as well to keep social distancing. Attendants encouraged us to do our own wipedowns if we felt uncomfortable and came through to collect garbage far more frequently.

Texas is weird. The state is open but Austin has a stay at home through the end of May. However, businesses are opening up anyways. It's a free for all.

How were the passengers?  Hostile or friendly?

And how were the flight attendants?  Stressed? Relaxed?  Nervous about catching it?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 28, 2020, 07:48:42 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 27, 2020, 09:02:55 AM

Is there a site that posts trends on hospitalizations by state?  That seems to be more relevant now --in conjunction with the initial points of cases/deaths.

Alabama has seen an increase in icu beds filled. Not sure about overall.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on May 28, 2020, 08:23:59 AM

Quote from: MU82 on May 27, 2020, 10:02:17 PM

Your pretend-to-be-a-Dem-but-act-like-a-right-winger act is getting boring.

I disagree.  I think it's fascinating.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on May 28, 2020, 08:36:53 AM

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1187829299207954437?s=19

These tweets were sent out October of 2019.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 28, 2020, 08:40:47 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on May 28, 2020, 08:36:53 AM

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1187829299207954437?s=19

These tweets were sent out October of 2019.

President Pandemic said it would disappear one day.  We’re good

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 28, 2020, 09:02:16 AM

Not a lot of conclusions in here, but an interesting discussion on why Europe and NA seem harder hit from a mortality perspective as compared to Asia.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/researchers-ponder-why-covid-appears-more-deadly-in-the-us-and-europe-than-in-asia/2020/05/26/81889d06-8a9f-11ea-9759-6d20ba0f2c0e_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/researchers-ponder-why-covid-appears-more-deadly-in-the-us-and-europe-than-in-asia/2020/05/26/81889d06-8a9f-11ea-9759-6d20ba0f2c0e_story.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 28, 2020, 09:04:23 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on May 28, 2020, 08:36:53 AM

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1187829299207954437?s=19

These tweets were sent out October of 2019.

Biden is old and senile, what does he know? Jared will lead us out of this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 28, 2020, 09:24:48 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on May 28, 2020, 08:36:53 AM

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1187829299207954437?s=19

These tweets were sent out October of 2019.

Oh boy, get ready for the accusations that Biden and the Democrats colluded with China to release this virus on the world so Trump would lose the election.

Wait, I'm probably too late to come up with this... no way I'm first.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 28, 2020, 09:36:06 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 28, 2020, 09:02:16 AM

Not a lot of conclusions in here, but an interesting discussion on why Europe and NA seem harder hit from a mortality perspective as compared to Asia.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/researchers-ponder-why-covid-appears-more-deadly-in-the-us-and-europe-than-in-asia/2020/05/26/81889d06-8a9f-11ea-9759-6d20ba0f2c0e_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/researchers-ponder-why-covid-appears-more-deadly-in-the-us-and-europe-than-in-asia/2020/05/26/81889d06-8a9f-11ea-9759-6d20ba0f2c0e_story.html)

Plenty of plausible reasons in there, but really difficult to tell which are relevant. The most obvious to me - not necessarily the right one, but the most obvious - is the dramatic difference in obesity rates. I also think the Asian comfort with wearing masks (and the Western aversion) is playing a significant role in the ongoing spread.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: BM1090 on May 28, 2020, 09:55:38 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 28, 2020, 12:04:40 AM

How were the passengers?  Hostile or friendly?

And how were the flight attendants?  Stressed? Relaxed?  Nervous about catching it?

Passengers were somewhere between. Nobody was outwardly angry but there was definitely some unease.

Flight attendants seemed fine. I'm sure it was mostly a facade but they did a good job of acting normal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 28, 2020, 10:47:02 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on May 28, 2020, 08:36:53 AM

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1187829299207954437?s=19

These tweets were sent out October of 2019.

One of the replies is so misplaced in hindsight. I bet the individual wishes he could have it back:

https://twitter.com/ScienceLt/status/1187830895660732421

"We are probably not prepared for the meteor either. How about we focus resources on the daily problems we have instead of the 1 in 10,000 year event that is likely to not gallen anyways?"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 28, 2020, 10:58:30 AM

Quote from: forgetful on May 28, 2020, 10:47:02 AM

One of the replies is so misplaced in hindsight. I bet the individual wishes he could have it back:

https://twitter.com/ScienceLt/status/1187830895660732421

"We are probably not prepared for the meteor either. How about we focus resources on the daily problems we have instead of the 1 in 10,000 year event that is likely to not gallen anyways?"

Tons of the replies are hilariously wrong, but the thing about that tweet is that we had recently been through Ebola, SARS, MERS, and H1N1. It's not like he needed to look back 10,000 years for the last event.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 28, 2020, 11:59:42 AM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 28, 2020, 08:40:47 AM

President Pandemic said it would disappear one day.  We’re good

And his sidekick Christian Boo Boo said it would disappear by Memorial Day.

So we’re good.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HouWarrior on May 28, 2020, 12:01:34 PM

Quote from: BM1090 on May 27, 2020, 11:28:18 PM

Probably the wrong thread but I didn't want to start a Texas thread.

I had to travel to Austin this week. Flying was less stressful than imagined. Planes were half full and the staff did a great job sanitizing everything. Boarded in smaller groups as well to keep social distancing. Attendants encouraged us to do our own wipedowns if we felt uncomfortable and came through to collect garbage far more frequently.

Texas is weird. The state is open but Austin has a stay at home through the end of May. However, businesses are opening up anyways. It's a free for all.

Actually Texas is parallel to the USA. Our top leaders Gov Abbott and Lt Gov Dan Patrick quote the WH  in briefings, their actions are in lockstep with directions from the same contacts....but at the local urban levels we have mostly blue mayors and county judges (our name for County govt CEOs). As you should know Austin is the heart of more liberal Texas politics/thinking and home to UT. The urban areas have local stay at home and other protections still in place...but of course some of those run counter to the statewide open it up edicts of our top guys.

None of what I described is intended to stir the politics. It is what it is Texas top brass are tracking the WH lockstep, the local urban leaders still urge continued high caution....and our citizenry follows those they like and agree with. There is very little uniformity...That does not bother Texans.

The relative low rates here have much to do with natural distancing ...we already tend to live apart and privately.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 28, 2020, 04:24:13 PM

Supporting tweets today that wearing a mask amounts to slavery and that the only good Democrat is a dead Democrat, the man has officially gone insane.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 28, 2020, 04:38:42 PM

Quote from: Jockey on May 28, 2020, 04:24:13 PM

Supporting tweets today that wearing a mask amounts to slavery and that the only good Democrat is a dead Democrat, the man has officially gone insane.

Why do you let him bother you so much?  Does he affect your daily life that much?
Does he make you sad or mad?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 28, 2020, 05:09:38 PM

Florida only has 1,763 COVID related deaths. Great!
However, we also have 5,185 deaths from pneumonia, a mere increase of 560% over the 5 year average of 918 deaths.

Yeah, we’re over counting COVID deaths.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 28, 2020, 05:34:34 PM

Quote from: forgetful on May 27, 2020, 09:59:05 PM

We've been here done this. Science says that we are under-reporting COVID deaths. Look at Florida, which had a late season rush of pneumonia deaths in mid to late March that exceeded normals by 100's per day, all flu negative.

They recorded them all as pneumonia deaths, not CoVID even though they were almost assuredly COVID. They were also leaving out deaths with COVID on the death certificate if it also listed Pneumonia.

Again, Science says we are undercounting. This is more prevalent in Red states, where for political reasons they want the numbers lower.

Probably.  And in blue states they want the numbers higher.  That is my conspiracy theory and I am sticking to it. 

And the arguments continue on and on and on and on.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 28, 2020, 05:40:28 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 27, 2020, 10:02:17 PM

Your pretend-to-be-a-Dem-but-act-like-a-right-winger act is getting boring.

You don't like Democrats that aren't hard core to the left.  I am pro life, own guns, believe in worker's rights.  That used to be what the party stood for growing up.  The party has gone very left.  The GOP has gone very right.  I am still a registered Democrat to this day and I do not act like a right-winger, but I don't act like a left-winger either.

It is troubling in our society today that it is boring to be moderate, question both sides.   This latest debate on social media bias and the complaints from both sides.  I remember when we, Democrats, believed in the Fairness Doctrine.  Ronald Reagan killed that.  Trump essentially wants a fairness doctrine for social media, which in the old days we would have supported and now we don't.  Trump is a hypocrite (that is redundant) and so are we.  Both parties change positions all too often for my taste.   I didn't change, the parties have and that is a factual statement, not an opinion.  Look at the planks of the GOP and the Democratic parties in the late 60's and early 70's.  There are some radical ideological changes that have taken place.

Boring

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 28, 2020, 05:45:43 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on May 28, 2020, 08:36:53 AM

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1187829299207954437?s=19

These tweets were sent out October of 2019.

He was right, but why did President Obama and VP Biden not restock millions of N95 masks if he were to make such a claim about the current President then their actions don't back up the tweet (the talk).  For that matter, why didn't Trump replace them in 2017-2019?  Both sides failed to adequately prepare, typical political doublespeak.

Fact checked below

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/03/fact-check-did-obama-administration-deplete-n-95-mask-stockpile/5114319002/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 28, 2020, 05:53:07 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 28, 2020, 05:45:43 PM

He was right, but why did President Obama and VP Biden not restock millions of N95 masks if he were to make such a claim about the current President then their actions don't back up the tweet (the talk).  For that matter, why didn't Trump replace them in 2017-2019?  Both sides failed to adequately prepare, typical political doublespeak.

Fact checked below

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/03/fact-check-did-obama-administration-deplete-n-95-mask-stockpile/5114319002/

Did both sides cut the pandemic response team? Did both sides cut programs to prepare worldwide pandemics?

But hey. Election year. Political suicide. Couldn’t do anything else. Both sides.

Sincerely yours, the guy who isn’t partisan that has only ever voted blue.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 28, 2020, 07:05:30 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 28, 2020, 05:45:43 PM

He was right, but why did President Obama and VP Biden not restock millions of N95 masks if he were to make such a claim about the current President then their actions don't back up the tweet (the talk).  For that matter, why didn't Trump replace them in 2017-2019?  Both sides failed to adequately prepare, typical political doublespeak.

Fact checked below

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/03/fact-check-did-obama-administration-deplete-n-95-mask-stockpile/5114319002/

They tried to get funding to increase the emergency stockpile and better prepare for future emergencies, but congress said we couldn't afford to spend more money, we also couldn't afford tax cuts for the working class, because...deficit.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 28, 2020, 09:18:26 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 28, 2020, 05:40:28 PM

You don't like Democrats that aren't hard core to the left.  I am pro life, own guns, believe in worker's rights.  That used to be what the party stood for growing up.  The party has gone very left.  The GOP has gone very right.  I am still a registered Democrat to this day and I do not act like a right-winger, but I don't act like a left-winger either.

It is troubling in our society today that it is boring to be moderate, question both sides.   This latest debate on social media bias and the complaints from both sides.  I remember when we, Democrats, believed in the Fairness Doctrine.  Ronald Reagan killed that.  Trump essentially wants a fairness doctrine for social media, which in the old days we would have supported and now we don't.  Trump is a hypocrite (that is redundant) and so are we.  Both parties change positions all too often for my taste.   I didn't change, the parties have and that is a factual statement, not an opinion.  Look at the planks of the GOP and the Democratic parties in the late 60's and early 70's.  There are some radical ideological changes that have taken place.

Boring

You’re boring because you’re a troll who can’t admit who you really are. It’s gotten old.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 28, 2020, 09:27:37 PM

https://mobile.twitter.com/ericMstrauss/status/1266136090806755329

👏👏

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 28, 2020, 10:04:57 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 28, 2020, 09:27:37 PM

https://mobile.twitter.com/ericMstrauss/status/1266136090806755329

👏👏

Why should any of us click on a twat about who-knows-what posted by a non-Marquette fan who just stumbled on our site?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 28, 2020, 10:20:41 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 28, 2020, 05:34:34 PM

Probably.  And in blue states they want the numbers higher.  That is my conspiracy theory and I am sticking to it. 

And the arguments continue on and on and on and on.

I'll take actual data over a conspiracy theory.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 29, 2020, 12:01:27 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 28, 2020, 05:34:34 PM

Probably.  And in blue states they want the numbers higher.  That is my conspiracy theory and I am sticking to it. 

And the arguments continue on and on and on and on.

So, you believe that Florida has had a 560% increase in deaths by pneumonia this year? And in a year where the R governor has actively suppressed information about COVID deaths?????????

Just FYI, our local grocery store is having a special on tin foil, if you need more.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on May 29, 2020, 12:21:30 AM

Quote from: MU82 on May 28, 2020, 10:04:57 PM

Why should any of us click on a twat about who-knows-what posted by a non-Marquette fan who just stumbled on our site?

FWIW, it’s coming from an ABC News medical reporter and his feed is very much balanced and speaking to the horrors of COVID just a few days back.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on May 29, 2020, 06:33:31 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on May 29, 2020, 12:01:27 AM

So, you believe that Florida has had a 560% increase in deaths by pneumonia this year? And in a year where the R governor has actively suppressed information about COVID deaths?????????

Just FYI, our local grocery store is having a special on tin foil, if you need more.

He believes...

“Both sides.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 29, 2020, 07:28:37 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on May 29, 2020, 12:21:30 AM

FWIW, it’s coming from an ABC News medical reporter and his feed is very much balanced and speaking to the horrors of COVID just a few days back.

I'm not sure why people can't just say, "Wow, that is some unexpected good news!".

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 29, 2020, 07:36:04 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 29, 2020, 07:28:37 AM

I'm not sure why people can't just say, "Wow, that is some unexpected good news!".

No kidding.  There have been some very positive things recently that show if we are cautious, do things outside and have testing that we can return to a better normal.  I would point to the WI elections, GA/FL reopening and relaxing restrictions in the NE while still making progress on cases/hospitalizations.  These are all good things.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 29, 2020, 07:48:57 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 29, 2020, 07:36:04 AM

No kidding.  There have been some very positive things recently that show if we are cautious, do things outside and have testing that we can return to a better normal.  I would point to the WI elections, GA/FL reopening and relaxing restrictions in the NE while still making progress on cases/hospitalizations.  These are all good things.

Exactly, I'm more than happy to be wrong about reopening if these trends continue.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 29, 2020, 07:53:25 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 29, 2020, 07:36:04 AM

No kidding.  There have been some very positive things recently that show if we are cautious, do things outside and have testing that we can return to a better normal.  I would point to the WI elections, GA/FL reopening and relaxing restrictions in the NE while still making progress on cases/hospitalizations.  These are all good things.

GA/FL I can't buy their numbers due to all the sketchy reporting and I think that's why people are hesitant to say great news. That is great news for WI and other states reporting more honestly. Unfortunately certain posters here refuse to look at the difference between the cases or density of the states still in lockdown and would instead politicize it as "lefty paranoia"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on May 29, 2020, 08:06:19 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 29, 2020, 07:28:37 AM

I'm not sure why people can't just say, "Wow, that is some unexpected good news!".

Oh I completely agree, I was trying to encourage 82 to read it regardless of who shared it

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 29, 2020, 08:06:53 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on May 29, 2020, 07:53:25 AM

GA/FL I can't buy their numbers due to all the sketchy reporting and I think that's why people are hesitant to say great news. That is great news for WI and other states reporting more honestly. Unfortunately certain posters here refuse to look at the difference between the cases or density of the states still in lockdown and would instead politicize it as "lefty paranoia"

The numbers are probably good enough.  Watch the hospitalizations.  That cant be faked.  If they are at a manageable capacity though, its probably all we can ask for.

Some will never believe this was bad - even though there is enough data on uncontrolled spread that says otherwise. 

At the end of the day as long as we dont have undetected and uncontrolled spread, we will be somewhat ok.  I believe if we had the testing, tracing & awareness levels that we have today, it probably wouldn't have gotten to the level of out of control we experienced in the first place.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 29, 2020, 08:26:54 AM

Finally.  An article on the plight of 4ever and rocket. Don’t let anyone tell you are not essential!

 https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/amid-coronavirus-concerns-dentists-face-a-fraught-road-to-reopening/2020/05/28/187f5e30-9909-11ea-ac72-3841fcc9b35f_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/amid-coronavirus-concerns-dentists-face-a-fraught-road-to-reopening/2020/05/28/187f5e30-9909-11ea-ac72-3841fcc9b35f_story.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 29, 2020, 09:16:15 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on May 29, 2020, 08:06:19 AM

Oh I completely agree, I was trying to encourage 82 to read it regardless of who shared it

My point wasn't that I'm unwilling to look at links shared by a variety of Scoopers. I am, and I do all the time.

My point was that here's this troll, who has no interest being part of this community but simply to be a divisive flamethrower, and he posts a link without even saying what it might be about. He has gone at it with numerous Scoopers and obviously has his own agenda. How are we supposed to know it's not something with a virus attached, or something simply vile and stupid?

Based upon your recommendation, I did just look at it. I am hoping that this does prove to be something to cheer. Of course, it was political (as many of my posts in this thread are, too), and the tweets that followed were hyper-political shots at governors who actually had the temerity to follow the president's guidelines.

But sure, on the face of it, it's fantastic news if we can re-open the country and not see more sickness and death. Absolutely.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 29, 2020, 10:11:17 AM

Quote from: MU82 on May 28, 2020, 10:04:57 PM

Why should any of us click on a twat about who-knows-what posted by a non-Marquette fan who just stumbled on our site?

Are you that thick in the head?  Do you not know sarcasm?

A quick peek at the arrow's account show that he is an MU fan and has been registered since 2014.

I'm surprised someone as well read as you wouldn't have noticed that.

I realize that ABC News isn't left enough for you to trust, but more Americans get their news from ABC than any other source.

Perhaps we could limit posted tweets to mu fan in CT's troll accounts or jesmu's friends.

***Insert Nads' "obsessed " gif here.

 ::) ::)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 29, 2020, 10:29:59 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 29, 2020, 10:11:17 AM

Are you that thick in the head?  Do you not know sarcasm?

A quick peek at the arrow's account show that he is an MU fan and has been registered since 2014.

I'm surprised someone as well read as you wouldn't have noticed that.

I realize that ABC News isn't left enough for you to trust, but more Americans get their news from ABC than any other source.

Perhaps we could limit posted tweets to mu fan in CT's troll accounts or jesmu's friends.

***Insert Nads' "obsessed " gif here.

 ::) ::)

👍👍 alumni (sorry to disappoint some of you) and season ticket holder and very much a “projo”. Don’t comment often over on the hoops board but have been reading for a long long time.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 29, 2020, 10:35:02 AM

Quote from: MU82 on May 29, 2020, 09:16:15 AM

My point wasn't that I'm unwilling to look at links shared by a variety of Scoopers. I am, and I do all the time.

My point was that here's this troll, who has no interest being part of this community but simply to be a divisive flamethrower, and he posts a link without even saying what it might be about. He has gone at it with numerous Scoopers and obviously has his own agenda. How are we supposed to know it's not something with a virus attached, or something simply vile and stupid?

Based upon your recommendation, I did just look at it. I am hoping that this does prove to be something to cheer. Of course, it was political (as many of my posts in this thread are, too), and the tweets that followed were hyper-political shots at governors who actually had the temerity to follow the president's guidelines.

But sure, on the face of it, it's fantastic news if we can re-open the country and not see more sickness and death. Absolutely.

Of course don’t agree with the troll post and I do get a little worked up, admittedly too worked sometimes but just trying to offer an opposing viewpoint to some of this stuff to hopefully lead to a productive/polite discussion but that’s hard to come by around here.

When wrong I do my best to admit it.  When right I have a tendency to obnoxiously spike the football so apologies in advance for my posts coming once hydroxy is proven effective when given early on in preventing the progress of Covid (I’m confident it’s coming)  ;)  :-\

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 29, 2020, 12:41:14 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 29, 2020, 10:35:02 AM

Of course don’t agree with the troll post and I do get a little worked up, admittedly too worked sometimes but just trying to offer an opposing viewpoint to some of this stuff to hopefully lead to a productive/polite discussion but that’s hard to come by around here.

When wrong I do my best to admit it.  When right I have a tendency to obnoxiously spike the football so apologies in advance for my posts coming once hydroxy is proven effective when given early on in preventing the progress of Covid (I’m confident it’s coming)  ;)  :-\

I didn't get the sarcasm, obviously, and I didn't feel any need to look at your posting or membership history. So I also owe you an apology.

We obviously disagree politically, but I'm glad we agree that We Are Marquette!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 29, 2020, 12:41:59 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 29, 2020, 10:11:17 AM

***Insert Nads' "obsessed " gif here.

No need.

As one Scooper likes to say: "rent free."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on May 29, 2020, 01:02:07 PM

Just heard the latest for summer workouts for my HS boys while they play basketball
5 in the gym at a time ok makes sense
bring your own ball makes sense as well
no sharing of the ball and each player will be on their own basket makes sense for now
Must wear a mask while working out Sorry but that makes no sense to me I will be waiting for the first lawsuit against a school district for a kids death due to breathing complications

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 29, 2020, 01:07:41 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on May 29, 2020, 01:02:07 PM

Just heard the latest for summer workouts for my HS boys while they play basketball
5 in the gym at a time ok makes sense
bring your own ball makes sense as well
no sharing of the ball and each player will be on their own basket makes sense for now
Must wear a mask while working out Sorry but that makes no sense to me I will be waiting for the first lawsuit against a school district for a kids death due to breathing complications

While I agree the mask requirement is silly, no one is going to die from wearing one.  There is no real definition of what is and what is not a mask.  Seems to be anything that covers the face.  Even a single piece of cloth.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 29, 2020, 01:29:51 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 29, 2020, 12:41:14 PM

I didn't get the sarcasm, obviously, and I didn't feel any need to look at your posting or membership history. So I also owe you an apology.

We obviously disagree politically, but I'm glad we agree that We Are Marquette!

💯 👍👍

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 29, 2020, 02:39:08 PM

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/29/health/cdc-director-coronavirus-early-spread-us-bn/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/29/health/cdc-director-coronavirus-early-spread-us-bn/index.html)

I am sure there will be other sources to report on this, but this is the first summary for now. 

"We were never blind when it came to surveillance for coronavirus 19," Redfield said.
"The reality is the surveillance systems that CDC had developed over the years for respiratory viral diseases, particularly the influenza-like illness, really did give us eyes on this disease as it began to emerge," Redfield said. "Independent of testing, we had pretty good eyes on whether there was any new respiratory influenza-like illness occurring in our country."

This statement by Redfield really makes me angry, particularly in light of their action to stop the WA flu study from testing samples.  I won't even get into the who knew what, when can of worms this introduces for the broader govt. 

You just can't have it both ways.  'sure we knew it was spreading' covers your procedural ass but makes the federal response/denials even more maddening.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on May 29, 2020, 02:40:21 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 29, 2020, 01:07:41 PM

While I agree the mask requirement is silly, no one is going to die from wearing one.  There is no real definition of what is and what is not a mask.  Seems to be anything that covers the face.  Even a single piece of cloth.

NFHS says all sports should wear a mask except cross country, swimming or those with extensive aerobic activity.  If i remember back from my HS days that would be all sports but maybe golf and bowling

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on May 29, 2020, 02:44:06 PM

Trump announced today that the U.S. is ending its relationship with WHO. And he left without taking questions as well as not speaking about Minnesota.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 29, 2020, 04:13:11 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 29, 2020, 02:39:08 PM

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/29/health/cdc-director-coronavirus-early-spread-us-bn/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/29/health/cdc-director-coronavirus-early-spread-us-bn/index.html)

I am sure there will be other sources to report on this, but this is the first summary for now. 

"We were never blind when it came to surveillance for coronavirus 19," Redfield said.
"The reality is the surveillance systems that CDC had developed over the years for respiratory viral diseases, particularly the influenza-like illness, really did give us eyes on this disease as it began to emerge," Redfield said. "Independent of testing, we had pretty good eyes on whether there was any new respiratory influenza-like illness occurring in our country."

This statement by Redfield really makes me angry, particularly in light of their action to stop the WA flu study from testing samples.  I won't even get into the who knew what, when can of worms this introduces for the broader govt. 

You just can't have it both ways.  'sure we knew it was spreading' covers your procedural ass but makes the federal response/denials even more maddening.

Honestly, this reads to me as a deliberate attempt of the US government to hide the existence spread of the disease. They say they knew it was out there, from other tracking programs, and they also deliberately blocked a study that would have confirmed its presence.

That is definitely irksome.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 29, 2020, 04:53:06 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 29, 2020, 02:39:08 PM

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/29/health/cdc-director-coronavirus-early-spread-us-bn/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/29/health/cdc-director-coronavirus-early-spread-us-bn/index.html)

I am sure there will be other sources to report on this, but this is the first summary for now. 

"We were never blind when it came to surveillance for coronavirus 19," Redfield said.
"The reality is the surveillance systems that CDC had developed over the years for respiratory viral diseases, particularly the influenza-like illness, really did give us eyes on this disease as it began to emerge," Redfield said. "Independent of testing, we had pretty good eyes on whether there was any new respiratory influenza-like illness occurring in our country."

This statement by Redfield really makes me angry, particularly in light of their action to stop the WA flu study from testing samples.  I won't even get into the who knew what, when can of worms this introduces for the broader govt. 

You just can't have it both ways.  'sure we knew it was spreading' covers your procedural ass but makes the federal response/denials even more maddening.

Agreed...especially when they slip little pearls like “independent of testing” in there. Wtf good is it to be aware of an emerging pandemic if you have no plans or capabilities for testing?

Every time someone from the administration adds information to “clarify” something, they just make themselves look worse.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 29, 2020, 05:14:50 PM

Community spread was likely happening in the US in late January.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6922e1.htm?s_cid=mm6922e1_w (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6922e1.htm?s_cid=mm6922e1_w)

Anecdotally, 2 stories.  1) i was completely laid out for 2 days at the end of January.   Slept for almost 48 hours straight, only other symptom was the worst joint pain I've ever experienced. Wife frequently travels through Detroit, was in Westchester county, NY 2 weeks prior, and we were in Vegas 10 days earlier.   Im scheduled for an antibody screen in two weeks, will be fascinated to see what my results are.

2)  a family from the kids' school had a family member in from Seattle over Christmas and for a few weeks in January. He was sick the whole time he was in Madison.  Soon after, that family got sick, illness spread through the school, and at the same time, the youth hockey program.

Back to news:  Bloomberg had an article about superspreaders today, and how that can explain the spikes in South Korea amd other places.  Its an opinion piece written by a non-medical person, so take it FWIW.

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/opinion/articles/2020-05-28/superspreader-events-might-actually-help-control-covid-19?__twitter_impression=true (https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/opinion/articles/2020-05-28/superspreader-events-might-actually-help-control-covid-19?__twitter_impression=true)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 29, 2020, 05:16:40 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on May 29, 2020, 02:44:06 PM

Trump announced today that the U.S. is ending its relationship with WHO. And he left without taking questions as well as not speaking about Minnesota.

WHO is to blame, not me.

“I don’t take responsibility at all.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 29, 2020, 05:54:29 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 29, 2020, 05:14:50 PM

Community spread was likely happening in the US in late January.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6922e1.htm?s_cid=mm6922e1_w (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6922e1.htm?s_cid=mm6922e1_w)

Anecdotally, 2 stories.  1) i was completely laid out for 2 days at the end of January.   Slept for almost 48 hours straight, only other symptom was the worst joint pain I've ever experienced. Wife frequently travels through Detroit, was in Westchester county, NY 2 weeks prior, and we were in Vegas 10 days earlier.   Im scheduled for an antibody screen in two weeks, will be fascinated to see what my results are.

2)  a family from the kids' school had a family member in from Seattle over Christmas and for a few weeks in January. He was sick the whole time he was in Madison.  Soon after, that family got sick, illness spread through the school, and at the same time, the youth hockey program.

Back to news:  Bloomberg had an article about superspreaders today, and how that can explain the spikes in South Korea amd other places.  Its an opinion piece written by a non-medical person, so take it FWIW.

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/opinion/articles/2020-05-28/superspreader-events-might-actually-help-control-covid-19?__twitter_impression=true (https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/opinion/articles/2020-05-28/superspreader-events-might-actually-help-control-covid-19?__twitter_impression=true)

A lady friend who does some travel had a four-day sickness unlike anything she said she ever experienced before at the beginning of February.  Severe joint pain, the dry cough and massive fatigue.  Didn’t feel right for another week or so

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 29, 2020, 05:56:14 PM

Conversely, a co worker got his butt kicked by something the week before Valentine's day.   Terrible cold symptoms along with a fever.   As sick as he has been in years. Just tested negative for antibodies.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 29, 2020, 05:57:13 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 29, 2020, 05:14:50 PM

Community spread was likely happening in the US in late January.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6922e1.htm?s_cid=mm6922e1_w (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6922e1.htm?s_cid=mm6922e1_w)

Anecdotally, 2 stories.  1) i was completely laid out for 2 days at the end of January.   Slept for almost 48 hours straight, only other symptom was the worst joint pain I've ever experienced. Wife frequently travels through Detroit, was in Westchester county, NY 2 weeks prior, and we were in Vegas 10 days earlier.   Im scheduled for an antibody screen in two weeks, will be fascinated to see what my results are.

2)  a family from the kids' school had a family member in from Seattle over Christmas and for a few weeks in January. He was sick the whole time he was in Madison.  Soon after, that family got sick, illness spread through the school, and at the same time, the youth hockey program.

Back to news:  Bloomberg had an article about superspreaders today, and how that can explain the spikes in South Korea amd other places.  Its an opinion piece written by a non-medical person, so take it FWIW.

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/opinion/articles/2020-05-28/superspreader-events-might-actually-help-control-covid-19?__twitter_impression=true (https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/opinion/articles/2020-05-28/superspreader-events-might-actually-help-control-covid-19?__twitter_impression=true)

I would be interested in your antibody results.  I understand why the CDC is against the ‘immunity passport’ but their vocal negative press about antibody tests feels a lot like their initial mask resistance.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 29, 2020, 06:04:02 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 29, 2020, 05:14:50 PM

Community spread was likely happening in the US in late January.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6922e1.htm?s_cid=mm6922e1_w (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6922e1.htm?s_cid=mm6922e1_w)

Anecdotally, 2 stories.  1) i was completely laid out for 2 days at the end of January.   Slept for almost 48 hours straight, only other symptom was the worst joint pain I've ever experienced. Wife frequently travels through Detroit, was in Westchester county, NY 2 weeks prior, and we were in Vegas 10 days earlier.   Im scheduled for an antibody screen in two weeks, will be fascinated to see what my results are.

2)  a family from the kids' school had a family member in from Seattle over Christmas and for a few weeks in January. He was sick the whole time he was in Madison.  Soon after, that family got sick, illness spread through the school, and at the same time, the youth hockey program.

Back to news:  Bloomberg had an article about superspreaders today, and how that can explain the spikes in South Korea amd other places.  Its an opinion piece written by a non-medical person, so take it FWIW.

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/opinion/articles/2020-05-28/superspreader-events-might-actually-help-control-covid-19?__twitter_impression=true (https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/opinion/articles/2020-05-28/superspreader-events-might-actually-help-control-covid-19?__twitter_impression=true)

Anecdotally, the strain of flu this year was particularly rough.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 29, 2020, 06:04:54 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 29, 2020, 05:14:50 PM

Community spread was likely happening in the US in late January.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6922e1.htm?s_cid=mm6922e1_w (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6922e1.htm?s_cid=mm6922e1_w)

Anecdotally, 2 stories.  1) i was completely laid out for 2 days at the end of January.   Slept for almost 48 hours straight, only other symptom was the worst joint pain I've ever experienced. Wife frequently travels through Detroit, was in Westchester county, NY 2 weeks prior, and we were in Vegas 10 days earlier.   Im scheduled for an antibody screen in two weeks, will be fascinated to see what my results are.

2)  a family from the kids' school had a family member in from Seattle over Christmas and for a few weeks in January. He was sick the whole time he was in Madison.  Soon after, that family got sick, illness spread through the school, and at the same time, the youth hockey program.

Back to news:  Bloomberg had an article about superspreaders today, and how that can explain the spikes in South Korea amd other places.  Its an opinion piece written by a non-medical person, so take it FWIW.

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/opinion/articles/2020-05-28/superspreader-events-might-actually-help-control-covid-19?__twitter_impression=true (https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/opinion/articles/2020-05-28/superspreader-events-might-actually-help-control-covid-19?__twitter_impression=true)

By the way Scott Gottleib said in an interview you shouldn’t trust one test.  However two positives would be somewhat conclusive.  Conversely I guess a negative result is more accurate/trustworthy. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 29, 2020, 07:20:47 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 29, 2020, 06:04:54 PM

By the way Scott Gottleib said in an interview you shouldn’t trust one test.  However two positives would be somewhat conclusive.  Conversely I guess a negative result is more accurate/trustworthy.

Honestly, it depends on what test you get. Originally I had often commented on some tests having up to 20% false positives. I've heard some are now even worse with false positive rates approaching 50%.

That means there is a roughly 1/4 chance you would test positive twice by the worst tests out there and still be negative.

I've said this a lot, but if you get these tests, try to find out what test you got. The test used in NY seems to be one of the more accurate ones.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 29, 2020, 07:26:59 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 29, 2020, 06:04:02 PM

Anecdotally, the strain of flu this year was particularly rough.

Had a flu shot, FWIW. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 29, 2020, 07:35:08 PM

Quote from: forgetful on May 29, 2020, 07:20:47 PM

Honestly, it depends on what test you get. Originally I had often commented on some tests having up to 20% false positives. I've heard some are now even worse with false positive rates approaching 50%.

That means there is a roughly 1/4 chance you would test positive twice by the worst tests out there and still be negative.

I've said this a lot, but if you get these tests, try to find out what test you got. The test used in NY seems to be one of the more accurate ones.

Yep. Below is an article that describes a Mayo Clinic study which tested nineteen of the Antibody tests. Only the four that had received an Emergency Use Authorization from FDA got an A+ rating. Most were so-so, and a few failed. (I’m not sure what the standards were for a given grade.)

IMHO, the best strategy for now is to ask if you can get a test that has an EUA.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/mayo-clinic-doctors-find-covid-19-antibody-tests/story?id=70803740

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 29, 2020, 07:46:33 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 29, 2020, 07:35:08 PM

Yep. Below is an article that describes a Mayo Clinic study which tested nineteen of the Antibody tests. Only the four that had received an Emergency Use Authorization from FDA got an A+ rating. Most were so-so, and a few failed. (I’m not sure what the standards were for a given grade.)

IMHO, the best strategy for now is to ask if you can get a test that has an EUA.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/mayo-clinic-doctors-find-covid-19-antibody-tests/story?id=70803740

Why has the FDA approved so many sub par tests

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 29, 2020, 08:12:47 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 29, 2020, 07:46:33 PM

Why has the FDA approved so many sub par tests

Most of the tests being used right now aren’t FDA approved. That should affect how they are marketed (something like “not for medical diagnosis”), but in these crazy times, it isn’t clear how that is being enforced. It’s also possible they are considered “lab developed tests,” which provides an FDA exception if the test is used solely within the lab that developed it.

4 of the 4 FDA-approved tests analyzed by Mayo were given an A+ rating, so the FDA approval process seems to be reasonably good.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on May 29, 2020, 08:44:50 PM

One of my project managers was bed ridden for 5 days in February, never calls in sick. Saves his vacation for youth hockey travels. Worst sickness he can remember, had a flu shot. He swore it was COVID19.

The results say....no COVID19 antibodies.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on May 29, 2020, 09:07:39 PM

https://www.france24.com/en/20200530-coronavirus-hopes-and-fears-centre-on-immunity

Some interesting theories being mulled over regarding T-cells.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 29, 2020, 09:31:59 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 29, 2020, 05:14:50 PM

Community spread was likely happening in the US in late January.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6922e1.htm?s_cid=mm6922e1_w (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6922e1.htm?s_cid=mm6922e1_w)

Anecdotally, 2 stories.  1) i was completely laid out for 2 days at the end of January.   Slept for almost 48 hours straight, only other symptom was the worst joint pain I've ever experienced. Wife frequently travels through Detroit, was in Westchester county, NY 2 weeks prior, and we were in Vegas 10 days earlier.   Im scheduled for an antibody screen in two weeks, will be fascinated to see what my results are.

I am glad you got through that OK. And, like others, I will be very interested in hearing about the antibody test.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 29, 2020, 10:28:56 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on May 29, 2020, 09:07:39 PM

https://www.france24.com/en/20200530-coronavirus-hopes-and-fears-centre-on-immunity

Some interesting theories being mulled over regarding T-cells.

It is not an impossibility, but if there was any cross-immunity it would likely only be for prior infections with 1 of the 4 human coronaviruses that are endemic. That would be NL63. NL63 also uses the ACE2 receptor for viral entry, so there is a remote possibility that there would be overlap in immune responses to NL63 and SARS-CoV2.

I'd feel a bit more confident if we knew if SARS provided any sort of protection, as the Spike protein of SARS is much more similar (still substantially different) to SARS-CoV2 than NL63 is.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 30, 2020, 06:37:03 AM

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/29/health/coronavirus-transmission-dose.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/29/health/coronavirus-transmission-dose.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur)

Viral load + slowing the spread. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 30, 2020, 07:01:37 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 30, 2020, 06:37:03 AM

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/29/health/coronavirus-transmission-dose.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/29/health/coronavirus-transmission-dose.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur)

Viral load + slowing the spread.

Great article that does a good job of explaining the underlying science of transmission and why masks help.

Really, really wish we could get universal mask adoption when in crowds or indoor spaces....I think the spread would really slowed.

If you are dubious in this thread, please just try it for two weeks, you'll get use to it and you'll be actively contributing to the fight against Covid. Further if you can advocate with others you know, that would be a huge help, we need a grass roots effort because Trump isn't going to rally people to them and the shame campaign is just gonna make it worse.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 30, 2020, 07:42:05 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 29, 2020, 06:04:54 PM

By the way Scott Gottleib said in an interview you shouldn’t trust one test.  However two positives would be somewhat conclusive.  Conversely I guess a negative result is more accurate/trustworthy.

I'm glad he's been over of the people advising our Governor on Coronavirus.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 30, 2020, 08:47:30 AM

Fauci flip flopping again.  Bill Maher called himself out on his show last night.  Fauci is all over the place of late.  CDC’s reputation needs to be rebuilt along with several other three letter organizations.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 30, 2020, 09:39:42 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 30, 2020, 08:47:30 AM

Fauci flip flopping again.  Bill Maher called himself out on his show last night.  Fauci is all over the place of late.  CDC’s reputation needs to be rebuilt along with several other three letter organizations.

When you start sounding like a Democrat, people will believe you are.  When you continue to push this sort of nonsense, people will forever believe that you are who you are.

Jamie from the O.C.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 30, 2020, 09:49:49 AM

Supreme Court says it's OK for California to prohibit church services ...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/30/us/supreme-court-churches-coronavirus.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20200530&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=29632&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court on Friday turned away a request from a church in California to block enforcement of state restrictions on attendance at religious services.

The vote was 5 to 4, with Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. joining the court’s four-member liberal wing to form a majority.

“Although California’s guidelines place restrictions on places of worship, those restrictions appear consistent with the free exercise clause of the First Amendment,” Chief Justice Roberts wrote in an opinion concurring in the unsigned ruling.

“Similar or more severe restrictions apply to comparable secular gatherings, including lectures, concerts, movie showings, spectator sports and theatrical performances, where large groups of people gather in close proximity for extended periods of time,” the chief justice wrote. “And the order exempts or treats more leniently only dissimilar activities, such as operating grocery stores, banks and laundromats, in which people neither congregate in large groups nor remain in close proximity for extended periods.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 30, 2020, 10:11:04 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 30, 2020, 08:47:30 AM

Fauci flip flopping again.  Bill Maher called himself out on his show last night.  Fauci is all over the place of late.  CDC’s reputation needs to be rebuilt along with several other three letter organizations.

Weird that you posted this shortly after Fox News posted a story about this.
Politics and strange bedfellows.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 30, 2020, 10:43:21 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 30, 2020, 10:11:04 AM

Weird that you posted this shortly after Fox News posted a story about this.
Politics and strange bedfellows.

He’s just a lifelong Democrat who gets his news from multiple sources. Because he’s smart and intelligent.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 30, 2020, 11:00:33 AM

A good tool for those looking for death increase by state vs normal.  With view of unexplained increases not attributable to COVID.   

 https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/investigations/coronavirus-excess-deaths-may/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook (https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/investigations/coronavirus-excess-deaths-may/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 30, 2020, 11:20:28 AM

Friday was the deadliest coronavirus day yet for North Carolina, and the last 4 days have been 4 of the 6 highest days for deaths.

The last 5 days also have been the highest on record for COVID-related hospitalizations in North Carolina.

If anything, the governor here is re-opening things here faster than the president's own guidelines and benchmarks recommended, yet the governor is getting ripped daily by the president for not re-opening fast enough.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 30, 2020, 12:23:46 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 30, 2020, 10:11:04 AM

Weird that you posted this shortly after Fox News posted a story about this.
Politics and strange bedfellows.

Even more weird that I mentioned Bill Maher who said it last night on his HBO program and I referenced exactly that point.  HBO is available to anyone that wishes to purchase it is still the case?  Watch him every week and I don't think anyone would say he is conservative.  Ha ha   :)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 30, 2020, 01:51:06 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 30, 2020, 11:20:28 AM

Friday was the deadliest coronavirus day yet for North Carolina, and the last 4 days have been 4 of the 6 highest days for deaths.

The last 5 days also have been the highest on record for COVID-related hospitalizations in North Carolina.

If anything, the governor here is re-opening things here faster than the president's own guidelines and benchmarks recommended, yet the governor is getting ripped daily by the president for not re-opening fast enough.

Same here in Minnesota. Our highest number of non-ICU hospitalizations was on Thursday and our highest number in ICU beds (so far) is today...yet we began opening weeks ago, and many are complaining our governor is moving too slowly.

An unfortunate lack of understanding of how viruses spread....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 30, 2020, 02:20:29 PM

Not sure if this site for looking at COVID data has been shared before (likely so) but I just found it.

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?time=2020-02-19..&casesMetric=true&dailyFreq=true&perCapita=true&smoothing=7&country=USA~KOR~DEU~ITA~FRA~ESP~BRA~CAN

Pretty cool to look at trends from different countries.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on May 30, 2020, 03:07:58 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 30, 2020, 09:49:49 AM

Supreme Court says it's OK for California to prohibit church services ...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/30/us/supreme-court-churches-coronavirus.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20200530&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=29632&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court on Friday turned away a request from a church in California to block enforcement of state restrictions on attendance at religious services.

The vote was 5 to 4, with Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. joining the court’s four-member liberal wing to form a majority.

“Although California’s guidelines place restrictions on places of worship, those restrictions appear consistent with the free exercise clause of the First Amendment,” Chief Justice Roberts wrote in an opinion concurring in the unsigned ruling.

“Similar or more severe restrictions apply to comparable secular gatherings, including lectures, concerts, movie showings, spectator sports and theatrical performances, where large groups of people gather in close proximity for extended periods of time,” the chief justice wrote. “And the order exempts or treats more leniently only dissimilar activities, such as operating grocery stores, banks and laundromats, in which people neither congregate in large groups nor remain in close proximity for extended periods.”

https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2020/05/one-vote-from-wisconsin

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on May 30, 2020, 04:02:43 PM

https://elemental.medium.com/coronavirus-may-be-a-blood-vessel-disease-which-explains-everything-2c4032481ab2

Another theory.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 30, 2020, 04:32:52 PM

Maher’s own words.  Not sure what their is to fault here, Fauci has been all over the place and flipped back and forth on too many health claims.

 https://twitter.com/billmaher/status/1266573910255874050?s=21

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 30, 2020, 04:37:20 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 30, 2020, 09:39:42 AM

When you start sounding like a Democrat, people will believe you are.  When you continue to push this sort of nonsense, people will forever believe that you are who you are.

Jamie from the O.C.

Michael is my birth name.  What does sounding like a Democrat mean?  Sounding like Democrat Joe Lieberman or AOC?  Which one?  Seems in your world and some of the hard core partisans here there is only one version.

Did you know Illinois had more than 50% of registered voters were Democrats back in 2007.  That number dropped in 2014 and again in 2016.  Not surprising, it is happening to both parties in many states.  People are tired of the partisanship.  You do not determine what it is to be a Democrat.  Part of the problem both parties have now are the crazies are dominating them.  Twitter is full of them and it is ultimately going to end very poorly for this country if we don’t get back to the middle.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 30, 2020, 04:52:18 PM

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html)

Current best data for all sorts of metrics related to onset, mean time to hospitalization that's relevant to the, it's been two weeks people are dying in the streets discussion

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 30, 2020, 05:02:22 PM

Wonderful column from Leonard Pitts of the Miami Herald:


Always before, there have been words. Always before, someone crafted them with writerly skill and gave them to the president to give to us. Always, before.

When seven people died aboard the Space Shuttle Challenger, President Ronald Reagan spoke of how, just that morning, they “waved goodbye and ‘slipped the surly bonds of Earth’ to ‘touch the face of God.’”

When 168 people died in the Oklahoma City bombing, President Bill Clinton told survivors, “You have lost too much, but you have not lost everything, and you have certainly not lost America, for we will stand with you for as many tomorrows as it takes.”

When 2,977 people died in the Sept. 11 attacks, President George W. Bush said, “Today our nation saw evil – the very worst of human nature – and we responded with the best of America.”

Yet as we pass a somber milestone – 100,000 Americans dead of the coronavirus pandemic – Donald Trump says nothing. At least, not about the moment. Instead, he tweets.

“OBAMAGATE!!”

And “Sleepy Joe Biden …” and “Psycho Joe Scarborough … ” and “Crazy Nancy Pelosi … ” and “Fake news … ”

Always before, the president would craft language as a vessel for our grief and a sword of our resolve; he would center us, comfort us, remind us to keep faith with tomorrow and aspire to the best version of ourselves.

In a word, he would console us. You just took it for granted. Nine people were massacred in a church in Charleston, S.C., and President Barack Obama went there and spoke of grace, even singing the old hymn about how amazing grace is, because of course he did. Twenty small children and six adults were murdered at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn., and Obama fought back tears and declared, “Our hearts are broken today,” because of course he did.

Because that’s what presidents do.

Or did. And we are only discovering how important that is in its absence.

Because 100,000 people are dead, and it feels almost as if it didn’t really happen, as if it carries no weight. One hundred thousand of our mothers, fathers, sisters and brothers, a college professor, a New York cabbie, a coach, a sharecropper’s son, an LGBTQ activist, a stamp collector, a jazz patriarch – 100,000 of us gone, yet there is no national moment, memorial or mourning. Each family and circle of friends are left to grieve alone.

Pundits and preachers will try to fill the void as best they can. But only a president can do what needs doing here. Only a president has the pulpit from which to address all of us and draw us together upon higher ground. Unfortunately, it is a task to which Trump is ill-suited and in which he has no apparent interest.

So we are left remembering how it was before, when a president might use a moment like this to send a needed message to a hurting nation. The message always was substantially the same, a sermon of hope and resilience that ennobled our pain and left us better for having listened. By contrast, Donald Trump engages in name-calling, whiny self-pity and nonsense conspiracies. People die, he tweets.

And that sends a message, too.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 30, 2020, 05:15:16 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 30, 2020, 05:02:22 PM

Wonderful column from Leonard Pitts of the Miami Herald

Yet as we pass a somber milestone – 100,000 Americans dead of the coronavirus pandemic – Donald Trump says nothing. At least, not about the moment. Instead, he tweets.

Always before, the president would craft language as a vessel for our grief and a sword of our resolve; he would center us, comfort us, remind us to keep faith with tomorrow and aspire to the best version of ourselves.

You weren’t listening, Mike. He did speak and I quote, “Fore”.

Every American should listen to the words of senile old Biden. American leaders are still able to speak with empathy and passion. Just not the self-absorbed monster we are stuck with. Even when a reporter lobs a softball question like “ what do you say to families that are suffering?”, he can’t do it and instead attacks the media.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 30, 2020, 06:52:12 PM

In case you haven’t paid attention, he has never been nor ran on the idea of being what Presidents have done in the past.  That is one reason he got elected if you go back and ask people why they voted for him.  Because they didn’t want the same approach and didn’t want someone that did what presidents have always done.  That has been clear long before the election and why does it keep stunning people years later as if they are surprised?  It should have surprised nobody.  In November people will have an option to decide again.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on May 30, 2020, 06:53:17 PM

Take your Vitamin D, get out into the sun, be careful in northern countries like the Nordics, Canada, or even northern states if you have darker skin.  Get outside.

https://youtu.be/tBSfIckPV44

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 30, 2020, 07:01:53 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 30, 2020, 06:52:12 PM

In case you haven’t paid attention, he has never been nor ran on the idea of being what Presidents have done in the past.  That is one reason he got elected if you go back and ask people why they voted for him.  Because they didn’t want the same approach and didn’t want someone that did what presidents have always done.  That has been clear long before the election and why does it keep stunning people years later as if they are surprised?  It should have surprised nobody.  In November people will have an option to decide again.

Yes, there are a lot of morons in America

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 30, 2020, 07:47:45 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 30, 2020, 05:02:22 PM

Wonderful column from Leonard Pitts of the Miami Herald

Great column.

Yes, the electoral college chose in 2016 to move away from empathy and compassion...and we are now seeing what that can mean.

Hopefully, we as a nation can find empathy and compassion elsewhere, and perhaps we have also learned that it also helps to get some from our leader.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 30, 2020, 09:43:16 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 30, 2020, 04:37:20 PM

Michael is my birth name.  What does sounding like a Democrat mean?  Sounding like Democrat Joe Lieberman or AOC?  Which one?  Seems in your world and some of the hard core partisans here there is only one version.

Did you know Illinois had more than 50% of registered voters were Democrats back in 2007.  That number dropped in 2014 and again in 2016.  Not surprising, it is happening to both parties in many states.  People are tired of the partisanship.  You do not determine what it is to be a Democrat.  Part of the problem both parties have now are the crazies are dominating them.  Twitter is full of them and it is ultimately going to end very poorly for this country if we don’t get back to the middle.

Thanks for the education, Jamie.

You're so smart.

For the record, I'm not a Democrat, and neither are you, nor have you ever been.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 30, 2020, 09:50:11 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on May 30, 2020, 07:47:45 PM

Great column.

Yes, the electoral college chose in 2016 to move away from empathy and compassion...and we are now seeing what that can mean.

Hopefully, we as a nation can find empathy and compassion elsewhere, and perhaps we have also learned that it also helps to get some from our leader.

Well, at least we know President Pandemic has no chance of getting the vote of lifelong Democrat WD/Cheeks/chicos/Jams/hoopaloop!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 30, 2020, 10:04:11 PM

I think it's safe to say we're gonna see a surge in 3-4 weeks

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 30, 2020, 10:25:26 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on May 30, 2020, 06:52:12 PM

In case you haven’t paid attention, he has never been nor ran on the idea of being what Presidents have done in the past.  That is one reason he got elected if you go back and ask people why they voted for him.  Because they didn’t want the same approach and didn’t want someone that did what presidents have always done.  That has been clear long before the election and why does it keep stunning people years later as if they are surprised?  It should have surprised nobody.  In November people will have an option to decide again.

So his supporters didn’t want a decent human being capable of basic empathy and decency? Yeah, from what I’ve seen of his supporters, you are right there.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 30, 2020, 10:30:57 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on May 30, 2020, 10:25:26 PM

So his supporters didn’t want a decent human being capable of basic empathy and decency? Yeah, from what I’ve seen of his supporters, you are right there.

Well, there was that time he went to visit the survivors of the Parkland shooting with "I hear you" written on his crib sheet.

Just because he went right back to pushing for more guns everywhere it doesn't mean he's incapable of pretending to show basic empathy and decency, you know!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 30, 2020, 11:24:00 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 30, 2020, 10:04:11 PM

I think it's safe to say we're gonna see a surge in 3-4 weeks

I fear you are correct. Here in MN, we just appeared to have reached our peak for hospitalizations and ICU patients...but now the peak OF THE FIRST WAVE may still be many weeks away.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on May 30, 2020, 11:30:30 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 30, 2020, 10:30:57 PM

Well, there was that time he went to visit the survivors of the Parkland shooting with "I hear you" written on his crib sheet.

Just because he went right back to pushing for more guns everywhere it doesn't mean he's incapable of pretending to show basic empathy and decency, you know!

(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/7b739abef7c5b32cad770055be4c773cf0e85834/918_0_1919_2400/master/1919.jpg?width=700&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=18e11dd13fbc121ffd16481ab53f934b)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 31, 2020, 02:27:29 PM

The rona might be a vascular disease, in addition to a respiratory one.

https://elemental.medium.com/coronavirus-may-be-a-blood-vessel-disease-which-explains-everything-2c4032481ab2 (https://elemental.medium.com/coronavirus-may-be-a-blood-vessel-disease-which-explains-everything-2c4032481ab2)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 31, 2020, 05:24:21 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 31, 2020, 02:27:29 PM

The rona might be a vascular disease, in addition to a respiratory one.

https://elemental.medium.com/coronavirus-may-be-a-blood-vessel-disease-which-explains-everything-2c4032481ab2 (https://elemental.medium.com/coronavirus-may-be-a-blood-vessel-disease-which-explains-everything-2c4032481ab2)

saw this earlier, makes a ton of sense and has since the first month....wonder if we'll see preventative ACE Inhibitors being proscribed for positive test results

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 31, 2020, 05:53:44 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on May 31, 2020, 05:24:21 PM

saw this earlier, makes a ton of sense and has since the first month....wonder if we'll see preventative ACE Inhibitors being proscribed for positive test results

Which is interesting because early on there was concern that use of statins was a high risk indicator. Now perhaps the opposite is true:

"The good news is that if Covid-19 is a vascular disease, there are existing drugs that can help protect against endothelial cell damage. In another New England Journal of Medicine paper that looked at nearly 9,000 people with Covid-19, Mehra showed that the use of statins and ACE inhibitors were linked to higher rates of survival. Statins reduce the risk of heart attacks not only by lowering cholesterol or preventing plaque, they also stabilize existing plaque, meaning they’re less likely to rupture if someone is on the drugs."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on May 31, 2020, 07:08:01 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on May 31, 2020, 05:53:44 PM

Which is interesting because early on their was concern that use of statins was a high risk indicator. Now perhaps the opposite is true:

"The good news is that if Covid-19 is a vascular disease, there are existing drugs that can help protect against endothelial cell damage. In another New England Journal of Medicine paper that looked at nearly 9,000 people with Covid-19, Mehra showed that the use of statins and ACE inhibitors were linked to higher rates of survival. Statins reduce the risk of heart attacks not only by lowering cholesterol or preventing plaque, they also stabilize existing plaque, meaning they’re less likely to rupture if someone is on the drugs."

Yeah some early assumptions may prove bad.....remember when NSAIDs were a death knell for a hot minute?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 31, 2020, 07:51:00 PM

Florida Dept of Health shut off public access to their Covid and other information.
Coincidentally after people started pointing out pneumonia deaths were up 560% according to that same DOH.
Over 4000 additional deaths by pneumonia over standard years. Averages age of those deaths, 50 years old. Now access to that info has been shut off. Hmmmmm.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Marquette Gyros on May 31, 2020, 07:54:46 PM

Good news from Italia:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-virus/new-coronavirus-losing-potency-top-italian-doctor-says-idUSKBN2370OQ

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 31, 2020, 08:20:05 PM

Quote from: Marquette Gyros on May 31, 2020, 07:54:46 PM

Good news from Italia:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-virus/new-coronavirus-losing-potency-top-italian-doctor-says-idUSKBN2370OQ

They should be careful about over-interpreting the data. Lower viral loads in infected patients doesn't mean that the "virus is weakening". It means cases may not be as severe. There are three good reasons for that.

1. Seasonal variation in immune function. This is one of the reasons many diseases are seasonal, including other coronaviruses.

2. Social distancing decreasing the initial viral load at infection/exposure. Doctors and frontline workers were hit hardest, because they were exposed to the largest viral loads. Social distancing efforts will reduce that, leading to a milder case with lower viral loads.

3. Most of the older and most susceptible people have already been exposed. Leading to the infected population being younger and healthier.

Item 1 will go away in fall, making us susceptible to a second wave. That second wave will be stronger, if because of doctors over interpreting the data like this article is, people relax social distancing thinking the disease is weakened. That 2nd wave would be brutal if people go back to life as normal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 31, 2020, 09:31:32 PM

Quote from: Marquette Gyros on May 31, 2020, 07:54:46 PM

Good news from Italia:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-virus/new-coronavirus-losing-potency-top-italian-doctor-says-idUSKBN2370OQ

Andromeda Strain II?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on June 01, 2020, 09:55:47 AM

Kids are more likely to die of a lightning strike than COVID 19.  Had not seen that perspective until now.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/902190/kids-more-likely-die-lightning-covid-school/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 01, 2020, 10:02:49 AM

Good!  Hope his is right!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 01, 2020, 10:18:32 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on June 01, 2020, 09:55:47 AM

Kids are more likely to die of a lightning strike than COVID 19.  Had not seen that perspective until now.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/902190/kids-more-likely-die-lightning-covid-school/

And only about 100 children (a fraction of a fraction of 1%) are kidnapped each year in the stereotypical stranger abductions you hear about in the news.

http://www.pollyklaas.org/about/national-child-kidnapping.html

So nobody should be concerned about their 6-year-olds being outside without supervision.

But I do hope you'll keep finding ways to downplay and minimize COVID-19. Thanks in advance!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on June 01, 2020, 10:25:34 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on June 01, 2020, 09:55:47 AM

Kids are more likely to die of a lightning strike than COVID 19.  Had not seen that perspective until now.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/902190/kids-more-likely-die-lightning-covid-school/

Why do you keep insisting on posting trash news stories that serve no purpose.

First, the argument of keeping schools closed is because they serve as a vector of spread to the rest of the community, where there are significant health/life risks.

Second, the idiot who made this claim specifically used statistics comparing deaths (under 15) so far compared to the population under 15, vs. total deaths from lightning strike (all ages) compared to the population under 15. That is disingenuous for a number of reasons. 1) It compares deaths for an entire year, of all ages, against the under 15 population. 2) It uses only the deaths for really 2-months of coronavirus, during a nationwide lockdown as a measure of the actual total mortality rate. 3) Only a moron cares about such statistics anyway, even if done in an honest manner.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on June 01, 2020, 10:33:12 AM

Chicos promoting dishonest arguments? Huh, weird.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 01, 2020, 10:50:43 AM

All across social media, we see supporters of President Pandemic desperately trying to downplay COVID-19. They have to push the narrative that the numbers are inflated, that Dem governors' reactions have been overblown, that "both sides" messed up, that people have nothing to lose by taking unvetted drugs, that their guy actually has done as good a job dealing with this as anybody else would have, that the "experts" suck, that most of the data is flawed, that conspiracy theories are more accurate than facts, etc.

Because if the majority of voters in battleground states believe otherwise, their emperor is screwed.

What we don't see is all of the above from "lifelong Democrats" who profess to dislike Trump ...  so we all should feel really honored and fortunate to have such a unicorn right here in ScoopLand.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 01, 2020, 11:16:02 AM

Quote from: MU82 on June 01, 2020, 10:50:43 AM

All across social media, we see supporters of President Pandemic desperately trying to downplay COVID-19. They have to push the narrative that the numbers are inflated, that Dem governors' reactions have been overblown, that "both sides" messed up, that people have nothing to lose by taking unvetted drugs, that their guy actually has done as good a job dealing with this as anybody else would have, that the "experts" suck, that most of the data is flawed, that conspiracy theories are more accurate than facts, etc.

Because if the majority of voters in battleground states believe otherwise, their emperor is screwed.

What we don't see is all of the above from "lifelong Democrats" who profess to dislike Trump ...  so we all should feel really honored and fortunate to have such a unicorn right here in ScoopLand.

We are indeed blessed that someone who is so willing to see both sides and enlighten us with his anti-tribal views exists in this forum. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on June 01, 2020, 11:21:08 AM

Takes 2 to 12 to tango, boys.

Don't feed the bear.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 01, 2020, 01:32:56 PM

If a chicos trolls in the thread and no one reacts to its does it even troll?


Speaking of internet troll, if you watch What We Do In The Shadows on FX that had a wonderful plot thread on last weeks episode on internet trolling that involved a literal troll....it was exquisite

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on June 01, 2020, 02:10:30 PM

nm

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on June 01, 2020, 02:46:55 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 01, 2020, 01:32:56 PM

If a chicos trolls in the thread and no one reacts to its does it even troll?


Speaking of internet troll, if you watch What We Do In The Shadows on FX that had a wonderful plot thread on last weeks episode on internet trolling that involved a literal troll....it was exquisite

Sounds like the show is worth it?  We have favored it on YouTubeTV but have not watched.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 01, 2020, 03:13:18 PM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on June 01, 2020, 02:46:55 PM

Sounds like the show is worth it?  We have favored it on YouTubeTV but have not watched.

It is somewhat inconsistent at times but at least 50% of the episodes in Season 1 and 2 are bust a gut funny. Some of the cameos they get are amazing and really deliver. The actress that plays Nadja is a freaking genius. Two thumbs up from this nerd.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 01, 2020, 03:43:56 PM

Quote from: forgetful on June 01, 2020, 10:25:34 AM

Why do you keep insisting on posting trash news stories that serve no purpose.

First, the argument of keeping schools closed is because they serve as a vector of spread to the rest of the community, where there are significant health/life risks.

Second, the idiot who made this claim specifically used statistics comparing deaths (under 15) so far compared to the population under 15, vs. total deaths from lightning strike (all ages) compared to the population under 15. That is disingenuous for a number of reasons. 1) It compares deaths for an entire year, of all ages, against the under 15 population. 2) It uses only the deaths for really 2-months of coronavirus, during a nationwide lockdown as a measure of the actual total mortality rate. 3) Only a moron cares about such statistics anyway, even if done in an honest manner.

Forgetful, I can say, without a doubt, that you are my favorite (as well as most informative) poster in this thread. And it's not even close.

My only suggestion would be to stop engaging with chico, He wants only to argue and your points mean nothing to him.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 01, 2020, 06:02:04 PM

Now we've heard everything ...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-india-monkey/monkeys-steal-coronavirus-blood-samples-in-india-idUSKBN2351KV?fbclid=IwAR3Et16dbIpvmqi9LVIexWp9KhkqTUmZ0DGQUVvzyHvPMXZeMGlwFPznXNk

LUCKNOW, India (Reuters) - A troop of monkeys in India attacked a medical official and snatched away blood samples of patients who had tested positive for the novel coronavirus, authorities said on Friday.

The attack occurred this week when a laboratory technician was walking in the campus of a state-run medical college in Meerut, 460 km (285 miles) north of Lucknow, capital of Uttar Pradesh state.

“Monkeys grabbed and fled with the blood samples of four COVID-19 patients who are undergoing treatment ... we had to take their blood samples again,” said Dr S. K. Garg, a top official at the college.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 01, 2020, 06:09:48 PM

Quote from: Jockey on June 01, 2020, 03:43:56 PM

Forgetful, I can say, without a doubt, that you are my favorite (as well as most informative) poster in this thread. And it's not even close.

My only suggestion would be to stop engaging with chico, He wants only to argue and your points mean nothing to him.

Yeah I mean, if we were to take a vote, my top 3 would be.

1. forgetful
2. mu03eng
3. FrennsLiquorDeppt

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 01, 2020, 06:12:14 PM

Quote from: MU82 on June 01, 2020, 06:02:04 PM

Now we've heard everything ...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-india-monkey/monkeys-steal-coronavirus-blood-samples-in-india-idUSKBN2351KV?fbclid=IwAR3Et16dbIpvmqi9LVIexWp9KhkqTUmZ0DGQUVvzyHvPMXZeMGlwFPznXNk

LUCKNOW, India (Reuters) - A troop of monkeys in India attacked a medical official and snatched away blood samples of patients who had tested positive for the novel coronavirus, authorities said on Friday.

The attack occurred this week when a laboratory technician was walking in the campus of a state-run medical college in Meerut, 460 km (285 miles) north of Lucknow, capital of Uttar Pradesh state.

“Monkeys grabbed and fled with the blood samples of four COVID-19 patients who are undergoing treatment ... we had to take their blood samples again,” said Dr S. K. Garg, a top official at the college.

It's 2020. Chances are we'll look back on this day and recall the "good old days" when those playful little monkeys first stole the samples...and before they used them to create a mutated and devastatingly lethal strain.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 01, 2020, 06:15:42 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 01, 2020, 06:09:48 PM

Yeah I mean, if we were to take a vote, my top 3 would be.

1. forgetful
2. mu03eng
3. FrennsLiquorDeppt

Pretty good list.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 01, 2020, 06:37:49 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 01, 2020, 06:12:14 PM

It's 2020. Chances are we'll look back on this day and recall the "good old days" when those playful little monkeys first stole the samples...and before they used them to create a mutated and devastatingly lethal strain.

Maybe this is the start of the real Planet of the Apes!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 01, 2020, 08:49:26 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 01, 2020, 06:09:48 PM

Yeah I mean, if we were to take a vote, my top 3 would be.

1. forgetful
2. mu03eng
3. FrennsLiquorDeppt

I’m devastated.

But seriously, that is a solid list. The scientific information provided by forgetful is the main thing that keeps me coming back this thread. And I appreciate Eng and Frenns for trying to keep us on topic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on June 01, 2020, 08:54:16 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 01, 2020, 06:09:48 PM

Yeah I mean, if we were to take a vote, my top 3 would be.

1. forgetful
2. mu03eng
3. FrennsLiquorDeppt

As$hole

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 01, 2020, 08:58:48 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 01, 2020, 06:09:48 PM

Yeah I mean, if we were to take a vote, my top 3 would be.

1. forgetful
2. mu03eng
3. FrennsLiquorDeppt

I won't be a member of any club that would have me

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on June 01, 2020, 09:00:21 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 01, 2020, 06:09:48 PM

Yeah I mean, if we were to take a vote, my top 3 would be.

1. forgetful
2. mu03eng
3. FrennsLiquorDeppt

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/049de616e17a7090e3c73d9771572d21/tenor.gif?itemid=13806215)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on June 01, 2020, 09:37:41 PM

Quote from: Jockey on June 01, 2020, 03:43:56 PM

Forgetful, I can say, without a doubt, that you are my favorite (as well as most informative) poster in this thread. And it's not even close.

My only suggestion would be to stop engaging with chico, He wants only to argue and your points mean nothing to him.

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 01, 2020, 06:09:48 PM

Yeah I mean, if we were to take a vote, my top 3 would be.

1. forgetful
2. mu03eng
3. FrennsLiquorDeppt

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 01, 2020, 08:49:26 PM

I’m devastated.

But seriously, that is a solid list. The scientific information provided by forgetful is the main thing that keeps me coming back this thread. And I appreciate Eng and Frenns for trying to keep us on topic.

Very much appreciate the kind words. I've also learned a lot from the various posters on here, we have a good well rounded group of people in terms of knowledge and experiences in different areas. To modify tower's phrase, always be learning

And agreed that I need to stop engaging Chicos.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on June 01, 2020, 09:58:59 PM

Quote from: MU82 on June 01, 2020, 10:18:32 AM

And only about 100 children (a fraction of a fraction of 1%) are kidnapped each year in the stereotypical stranger abductions you hear about in the news.

http://www.pollyklaas.org/about/national-child-kidnapping.html

So nobody should be concerned about their 6-year-olds being outside without supervision.

But I do hope you'll keep finding ways to downplay and minimize COVID-19. Thanks in advance!

How many are killed by their own hand with suicides?   How far do you want to go?  How many kids are killed by undocumented workers?  Do you support a wall? Are their deaths any less deadly?   I don't think anyone wants a child, an innocent child or baby to die.  Personally, I don't want to see suicide rates go up 300% either.  Or local gov'ts suspending services that help people because the money is all gone.

You cannot protect in all circumstances.  Follow the data, follow the science.  The risks are very low, and it will be tragic any child that dies from it.  No less tragic than any other child that dies. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 01, 2020, 10:15:41 PM

Quote from: WarriorDad on June 01, 2020, 09:58:59 PM

How many are killed by their own hand with suicides?   How far do you want to go?  How many kids are killed by undocumented workers?  Do you support a wall? Are their deaths any less deadly?   I don't think anyone wants a child, an innocent child or baby to die.  Personally, I don't want to see suicide rates go up 300% either.  Or local gov'ts suspending services that help people because the money is all gone.

You cannot protect in all circumstances.  Follow the data, follow the science.  The risks are very low, and it will be tragic any child that dies from it.  No less tragic than any other child that dies.

You're a troll. I'm done engaging with you. (But I reserve the right to make fun of you.)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: withoutbias on June 01, 2020, 10:45:05 PM

Quote from: MU82 on June 01, 2020, 10:15:41 PM

You're a troll. I'm done engaging with you. (But I reserve the right to make fun of you.)

He’s not a troll he’s a psychopath.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 01, 2020, 11:07:11 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 01, 2020, 08:49:26 PM

I’m devastated.

But seriously, that is a solid list. The scientific information provided by forgetful is the main thing that keeps me coming back this thread. And I appreciate Eng and Frenns for trying to keep us on topic.

Honorable mention, goo.

Seriously, you have been outstanding since you started posting near the beginning of this thread.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 01, 2020, 11:39:25 PM

Quote from: Jockey on June 01, 2020, 11:07:11 PM

Honorable mention, goo.

Seriously, you have been outstanding since you started posting near the beginning of this thread.

Much appreciated, Jockey.

I will keep contributing when I can, but I need to keep my frustrations with the administration in check. Not good for my morale.

Have a good night.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on June 02, 2020, 06:54:50 AM

From the NY Times morning brief:

‘Illiberal populists’ and the virus
The four large countries where coronavirus cases have been increasing fastest — Brazil, the U.S., Russia and Britain — have something in common: They are all run by populist male leaders who cast themselves as anti-elite and anti-establishment.
“Very often they rail against intellectuals and experts of nearly all types,” Steven Levitsky, a Harvard political scientist, told us. The leaders, he said, “claim to have a kind of common-sense wisdom that the experts lack. This doesn’t work very well versus Covid-19.” We explain — with a chart — here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 02, 2020, 07:28:43 AM

The NY Times had two very good summaries outlined too.
What we now know.  What we still don't know.

---

Six Months of Coronavirus: Here’s Some of What We’ve Learned
Much remains unknown and mysterious, but these are some of the things we’re pretty sure of after half a year of this pandemic.
https://www.nytimes.com/article/coronavirus-facts-history.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20200602&instance_id=19010&nl=the-morning&regi_id=129195399&segment_id=29853&te=1&user_id=241ba4d41597465e5702c58f7203475b


After 6 Months, Important Mysteries About Coronavirus Endure
Times journalists summarize some of the most critical things that scientists and public health officials have yet to understand.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/01/health/coronavirus-mysteries.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20200602&instance_id=19010&nl=the-morning&regi_id=129195399&segment_id=29853&te=1&user_id=241ba4d41597465e5702c58f7203475b

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 02, 2020, 07:51:42 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on June 02, 2020, 06:54:50 AM

From the NY Times morning brief:

‘Illiberal populists’ and the virus
The four large countries where coronavirus cases have been increasing fastest — Brazil, the U.S., Russia and Britain — have something in common: They are all run by populist male leaders who cast themselves as anti-elite and anti-establishment.
“Very often they rail against intellectuals and experts of nearly all types,” Steven Levitsky, a Harvard political scientist, told us. The leaders, he said, “claim to have a kind of common-sense wisdom that the experts lack. This doesn’t work very well versus Covid-19.” We explain — with a chart — here.

I, too, can selectively narrow my data sets to seemingly draw a conclusion based on a political opinion I already had. Perhaps I should write for the NYT?

Worldest largest country stopped virus cold, why authoritarian governments are the answer to pandemics
Byline: mu03Eng of the New York Times

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on June 02, 2020, 08:30:44 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 02, 2020, 07:51:42 AM

I, too, can selectively narrow my data sets to seemingly draw a conclusion based on a political opinion I already had. Perhaps I should write for the NYT?

Worldest largest country stopped virus cold, why authoritarian governments are the answer to pandemics
Bylaw: mu03Eng of the New York Times

Now you're speaking tsmith's language!  Moar government.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 02, 2020, 08:31:48 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 02, 2020, 07:51:42 AM

I, too, can selectively narrow my data sets to seemingly draw a conclusion based on a political opinion I already had. Perhaps I should write for the NYT?

Worldest largest country stopped virus cold, why authoritarian governments are the answer to pandemics
Bylaw: mu03Eng of the New York Times

If we are expected to believe Chinese leaders, then you are right.

I don’t.  They lied before, but now they are honest. Hmm....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 02, 2020, 09:11:03 AM

Quote from: Jockey on June 02, 2020, 08:31:48 AM

If we are expected to believe Chinese leaders, then you are right.

I don’t.  They lied before, but now they are honest. Hmm....

oh I'm well aware they were and are lying their a$$e$ off.....that was meant to be part of my satire, however it seems like I should definitely not write for the Onion :)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 02, 2020, 09:32:32 AM

Quote from: reinko on June 01, 2020, 08:54:16 PM

As$hole

Quote from: Pakuni on June 01, 2020, 09:00:21 PM

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/049de616e17a7090e3c73d9771572d21/tenor.gif?itemid=13806215)

I knew I was inviting criticism!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 02, 2020, 09:33:38 AM

Quote from: Jockey on June 01, 2020, 11:07:11 PM

Honorable mention, goo.

Seriously, you have been outstanding since you started posting near the beginning of this thread.

+1.  Not sure how I missed you!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 02, 2020, 09:34:41 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on June 02, 2020, 06:54:50 AM

From the NY Times morning brief:

‘Illiberal populists’ and the virus
The four large countries where coronavirus cases have been increasing fastest — Brazil, the U.S., Russia and Britain — have something in common: They are all run by populist male leaders who cast themselves as anti-elite and anti-establishment.
“Very often they rail against intellectuals and experts of nearly all types,” Steven Levitsky, a Harvard political scientist, told us. The leaders, he said, “claim to have a kind of common-sense wisdom that the experts lack. This doesn’t work very well versus Covid-19.” We explain — with a chart — here.

I don't recommend China's style of government to anyone.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 02, 2020, 09:43:52 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 02, 2020, 09:11:03 AM

oh I'm well aware they were and are lying their a$$e$ off.....that was meant to be part of my satire, however it seems like I should definitely not write for the Onion :)

I think I miss your satire often, just because you are such a science and data-driven guy (which I really enjoy as it is too often in short supply on Scoop).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on June 02, 2020, 09:49:57 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 02, 2020, 07:51:42 AM

I, too, can selectively narrow my data sets to seemingly draw a conclusion based on a political opinion I already had. Perhaps I should write for the NYT?

Worldest largest country stopped virus cold, why authoritarian governments are the answer to pandemics
Byline: mu03Eng of the New York Times

Well in one sense you are correct: I think most everyone agrees that authoritarian governments had advantages in containing the pandemic as they could enforce their will in ways free societies couldn't. Even the non-authoritarian government in Asia generally had a leg up because (broad brush coming) their citizens tend to comply with governmental orders. So you aren't wrong.

Not sure how that is dismissive of the NYT story, however. They are showing a commonality between the countries with high rates of infection and at the very least implying it is partially due to the leaders of those countries. Do you disagree that there is a probable cause and effect? Do you disagree that the wannabe Stongman type of leaders that were dismissive of the virus resulted in higher infection and death rates in their countries?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on June 02, 2020, 11:11:00 AM

It's a miracle!

https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/wuhan-tests-nearly-10-million-people-finds-only-104439398.html?__twitter_impression=true (https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/wuhan-tests-nearly-10-million-people-finds-only-104439398.html?__twitter_impression=true)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 02, 2020, 11:30:54 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on June 02, 2020, 09:49:57 AM

Well in one sense you are correct: I think most everyone agrees that authoritarian governments had advantages in containing the pandemic as they could enforce their will in ways free societies couldn't. Even the non-authoritarian government in Asia generally had a leg up because (broad brush coming) their citizens tend to comply with governmental orders. So you aren't wrong.

Not sure how that is dismissive of the NYT story, however. They are showing a commonality between the countries with high rates of infection and at the very least implying it is partially due to the leaders of those countries. Do you disagree that there is a probable cause and effect? Do you disagree that the wannabe Stongman type of leaders that were dismissive of the virus resulted in higher infection and death rates in their countries?

I do disagree, because he argument is taking to hypothesis and conflating them(classic correlation instead of causation). The two are: if your government is a strongman type then your virus response is weaker.....if your government is dismissive of the virus your virus response is weaker. My point was there are strong man governments that have been relatively successful against the virus and ones that have not been....that attribute seems to have limited bearing on the result. The largest impact seems to be how serious you took it. Iran has a strong man type government (not in the illustrative sense but in the practical sense) and were devastated by the virus, why were they not included in this analysis? China has a strong man government but did well according to them....do they not count? The point is that this is political analysis dressed as some sort of data driven determination and it's not. Should not Venezula be overrun by this disease by this standard(maybe they are haven't been paying attention to them)?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on June 02, 2020, 12:00:59 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 02, 2020, 11:30:54 AM

I do disagree, because he argument is taking to hypothesis and conflating them(classic correlation instead of causation). The two are: if your government is a strongman type then your virus response is weaker.....if your government is dismissive of the virus your virus response is weaker. My point was there are strong man governments that have been relatively successful against the virus and ones that have not been....that attribute seems to have limited bearing on the result. The largest impact seems to be how serious you took it. Iran has a strong man type government (not in the illustrative sense but in the practical sense) and were devastated by the virus, why were they not included in this analysis? China has a strong man government but did well according to them....do they not count? The point is that this is political analysis dressed as some sort of data driven determination and it's not. Should not Venezula be overrun by this disease by this standard(maybe they are haven't been paying attention to them)?

Sorry, the link did not come through in my original post so you might now have seem the article, but it addresses Iran as well as Mexico:

"All four leaders also flouted guidance on personal protective measures early on, refusing to wear a mask or continuing to shake hands.

"The pattern is apparent beyond just those countries, too. Iran — a country with a theocratic supreme leader — is fifth in case growth over the past two weeks among countries with at least 50 million people. Health experts say the government did not heed warnings about reopening too quickly. Mexico — where President Andrés Manuel López Obrador is a left-wing populist whose government published posters saying the virus “no es grave” (is not serious) — is sixth."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/02/briefing/coronavirus-populist-leaders.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20200602&instance_id=19010&nl=the-morning&regi_id=98421546&segment_id=29853&te=1&user_id=65badcb7c07b4cd4815fe5e758510381

So it basically agrees with you that it is a function of not taking it seriously--which whether you believe China's data or not I don't think you can say that they didn't take it seriously at least once it was its existence was out in the open--and that these strongman types commonly didn't take it seriously.

Venezuela...either their data is seriously wrong (17 deaths with almost a million tests performed??) or they should be held up as the poster child for excellence in pandemic management.  I'm going to guess it is the former.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 02, 2020, 12:24:26 PM

I attended a virtual talk on the Covid situation.  The speaker was a MD and used to lead a major govt health organization.  I definitely didn't state things with medical precision as these are notes from a business guy.

- Don't look as hard at cases here forward, we are catching a lot more cases so shouldn't over-react to these fluctuations.  Hospitalizations much more important at this stage to understand severity of outbreak.  They continue to come down which is great news.

- Expects a respite this summer...likely though our case levels normalize somewhere near the levels we are seeing (due to reopening + more social contact).  Since we wont achieve a collapse like SK or Germany, this makes the fall a little riskier (let our guard down coming off a higher base).  So need to prepare. Need better contact tracing.  We as a country have fixed the ability to run sufficient testing...now need to work on the ability to collect enough samples.  The issue is that once we have cold, flu + covid in the fall, this can become a logistical nightmare without more capacity or easier ways to collect samples.

- Has something changed with the virus.  No - some mutation but not likely a major drift - good and bad as it is good for a vaccine (can design for a steady state) but likely is not changing for the better or weakening.  Seasonal effect benefits are likely starting which is making the environment less extreme (was skeptical of the Italy 'weakening' or some recent findings that the virus is more aggressive than prior).

- Biggest learning thus far about the virus is around the vascular impacts - clotting & impacts to make red blood cells sticky.  Has pulled forward treatment to look for blood clots in legs and elsewhere, ramped up the use of anticoagulants and anti-platelet drugs and has pushed intubation to later in the treatment.  Data forthcoming, but doctors have embraced this and seeing positive impacts.

- LT impacts due to hospitalization/care and post viral syndromes still being understood.  It feels like they are higher with this virus but we do not understand how many people have had the virus, so it is tough to say. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 02, 2020, 12:29:13 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on June 02, 2020, 12:00:59 PM

Sorry, the link did not come through in my original post so you might now have seem the article, but it addresses Iran as well as Mexico:

"All four leaders also flouted guidance on personal protective measures early on, refusing to wear a mask or continuing to shake hands.

"The pattern is apparent beyond just those countries, too. Iran — a country with a theocratic supreme leader — is fifth in case growth over the past two weeks among countries with at least 50 million people. Health experts say the government did not heed warnings about reopening too quickly. Mexico — where President Andrés Manuel López Obrador is a left-wing populist whose government published posters saying the virus “no es grave” (is not serious) — is sixth."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/02/briefing/coronavirus-populist-leaders.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20200602&instance_id=19010&nl=the-morning&regi_id=98421546&segment_id=29853&te=1&user_id=65badcb7c07b4cd4815fe5e758510381

So it basically agrees with you that it is a function of not taking it seriously--which whether you believe China's data or not I don't think you can say that they didn't take it seriously at least once it was its existence was out in the open--and that these strongman types commonly didn't take it seriously.

Venezuela...either their data is seriously wrong (17 deaths with almost a million tests performed??) or they should be held up as the poster child for excellence in pandemic management.  I'm going to guess it is the former.

All kind of proves my point, regardless of the leader, if you took it seriously you did better against the virus. If you want to make the argument that strong man types tend to be dismissive of these types of crisis which then triggered the non-serious outcomes, that's fine. What it doesn't change is that the NYT is making an argument against strong men and trying to basis it in data so it looks like analysis instead of opinion.

BTW, I'm not for or against strong men types...it is a leadership style that can be used for good and evil....but I am against pushing an agenda disguised by "science"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 02, 2020, 12:43:33 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 02, 2020, 12:24:26 PM

I attended a virtual talk on the Covid situation.  The speaker was a MD and used to lead a major govt health organization.  I definitely didn't state things with medical precision as these are notes from a business guy.

- Don't look as hard at cases here forward, we are catching a lot more cases so shouldn't over-react to these fluctuations.  Hospitalizations much more important at this stage to understand severity of outbreak.  They continue to come down which is great news.

- Expects a respite this summer...likely though our case levels normalize somewhere near the levels we are seeing (due to reopening + more social contact).  Since we wont achieve a collapse like SK or Germany, this makes the fall a little riskier (let our guard down coming off a higher base).  So need to prepare. Need better contact tracing.  We as a country have fixed the ability to run sufficient testing...now need to work on the ability to collect enough samples.  The issue is that once we have cold, flu + covid in the fall, this can become a logistical nightmare without more capacity or easier ways to collect samples.

- Has something changed with the virus.  No - some mutation but not likely a major drift - good and bad as it is good for a vaccine (can design for a steady state) but likely is not changing for the better or weakening.  Seasonal effect benefits are likely starting which is making the environment less extreme (was skeptical of the Italy 'weakening' or some recent findings that the virus is more aggressive than prior).

- Biggest learning thus far about the virus is around the vascular impacts - clotting & impacts to make red blood cells sticky.  Has pulled forward treatment to look for blood clots in legs and elsewhere, ramped up the use of anticoagulants and anti-platelet drugs and has pushed intubation to later in the treatment.  Data forthcoming, but doctors have embraced this and seeing positive impacts.

- LT impacts due to hospitalization/care and post viral syndromes still being understood.  It feels like they are higher with this virus but we do not understand how many people have had the virus, so it is tough to say.

Thanks for sharing this. Knowledge = power. We are learning more about COVID every day, and still so much to learn.

Only thing I have to add is that, unfortunately, both hospitalizations and deaths are up in NC. We opened up some about a month ago, and went to Phase 2 on May 22. Hoping it's just a blip. We'll probably know a lot more in a week or two.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on June 02, 2020, 12:48:53 PM

Apologies if this was posted already ... Meta-analysis shows masks, distancing significantly reduce rate of transmission.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31183-1/fulltext

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 02, 2020, 12:58:39 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on June 02, 2020, 12:48:53 PM

Apologies if this was posted already ... Meta-analysis shows masks, distancing significantly reduce rate of transmission.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31183-1/fulltext

RELATED - this news just broke minutes ago:

Gov. Roy Cooper on Tuesday rejected the Republican National Committee’s request for a full convention in Charlotte, sending organizers scrambling a day ahead of their self-imposed deadline to decide whether to take the convention elsewhere.

The governor told RNC officials that face coverings and social distancing are “a necessity” as they plan a convention during the novel coronavirus pandemic. Republican leaders had asked for a convention without them as North Carolina begins to reopen its economy.

“As much as we want the conditions surrounding COVID-19 to be favorable enough for you to hold the convention you describe in late August, it is very unlikely,” Cooper wrote RNC officials. “Neither public health officials nor I will risk the health and safety of North Carolinians by providing the guarantees you seek.”

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/rnc-2020/article243198906.html?

It's the only decision that makes sense. Trump was demanding a guarantee that the RNC have a full arena, with no social distancing and no facemasks. There is absolutely no way any responsible governor or medical expert could provide such a guarantee in the middle of a pandemic.

So either Trump and the RNC will agree to be responsible, or they are free to move to another state. It's entirely their choice.

The DNC already has acknowledged it might have to make major adjustments, and possibly even will have to do a virtual convention.

Nothing will be decided at either convention. Both are spectacles. It would be irresponsible to put lives at risk for political celebrations.

Trump is pissed, because he wants the big coronation, Narcissist Fest 2020. As Mick famously sang, "You can't always get what you want during a global pandemic."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 02, 2020, 01:31:23 PM

Quote from: MU82 on June 02, 2020, 12:58:39 PM

RELATED - this news just broke minutes ago:

Gov. Roy Cooper on Tuesday rejected the Republican National Committee’s request for a full convention in Charlotte, sending organizers scrambling a day ahead of their self-imposed deadline to decide whether to take the convention elsewhere.

The governor told RNC officials that face coverings and social distancing are “a necessity” as they plan a convention during the novel coronavirus pandemic. Republican leaders had asked for a convention without them as North Carolina begins to reopen its economy.

“As much as we want the conditions surrounding COVID-19 to be favorable enough for you to hold the convention you describe in late August, it is very unlikely,” Cooper wrote RNC officials. “Neither public health officials nor I will risk the health and safety of North Carolinians by providing the guarantees you seek.”

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/rnc-2020/article243198906.html?

It's the only decision that makes sense. Trump was demanding a guarantee that the RNC have a full arena, with no social distancing and no facemasks. There is absolutely no way any responsible governor or medical expert could provide such a guarantee in the middle of a pandemic.

So either Trump and the RNC will agree to be responsible, or they are free to move to another state. It's entirely their choice.

The DNC already has acknowledged it might have to make major adjustments, and possibly even will have to do a virtual convention.

Nothing will be decided at either convention. Both are spectacles. It would be irresponsible to put lives at risk for political celebrations.

Trump is pissed, because he wants the big coronation, Narcissist Fest 2020. As Mick famously sang, "You can't always get what you want during a global pandemic."

The rational approach would be to cancel the entire conventions, and perhaps give each party equal airtime for in-studio "convention-type" rah rah speeches. I suspect Biden would agree to that, but can't imagine Trump giving up a chance for a cheering crowd.

As for the kind of things that typically are actually decided in back rooms at a convention (the specific nuances of the party platform and such), that can all be done virtually or in conference rooms at the parties' offices.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 02, 2020, 06:24:08 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 02, 2020, 01:31:23 PM

The rational approach would be to cancel the entire conventions, and perhaps give each party equal airtime for in-studio "convention-type" rah rah speeches. I suspect Biden would agree to that, but can't imagine Trump giving up a chance for a cheering crowd.

As for the kind of things that typically are actually decided in back rooms at a convention (the specific nuances of the party platform and such), that can all be done virtually or in conference rooms at the parties' offices.

Rational? He wants people chanting his name, as well as assorted insults aimed at his massive enemies list. He wants Narcissist Fest 2020.

I hope Jacksonville enjoys it, as well as the massive COVID-19 hit to follow.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on June 02, 2020, 06:28:56 PM

Quote from: MU82 on June 02, 2020, 06:24:08 PM

Rational? He wants people chanting his name, as well as assorted insults aimed at his massive enemies list. He wants Narcissist Fest 2020.

I hope Jacksonville enjoys it, as well as the massive COVID-19 hit to follow.

That's really terrible.

OK, will try again to be balanced which you will hate and immediately label me a Trump supporter or a non-Democrat.  Both wrong.

When voting was done in Wisconsin, massive outbreak predicted here.  Did not happen.  Liberty university open up with prediction so of massive outbreak.  Didn't happen.  Florida.  Didn't happen.   Why do I sense you are cheering for these bad outcomes?  In fact, did you just not say above you HOPE Jacksonville has a massive COVID 19 outbreak  What kind of compassionate person hopes for that?  Hopes people get sick? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on June 02, 2020, 08:13:55 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on June 02, 2020, 11:11:00 AM

It's a miracle!

https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/wuhan-tests-nearly-10-million-people-finds-only-104439398.html?__twitter_impression=true (https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/wuhan-tests-nearly-10-million-people-finds-only-104439398.html?__twitter_impression=true)

Wait. So now we want to believe China?

Now THAT is funny!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on June 02, 2020, 08:25:22 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on June 02, 2020, 11:11:00 AM

It's a miracle!

https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/wuhan-tests-nearly-10-million-people-finds-only-104439398.html?__twitter_impression=true (https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/wuhan-tests-nearly-10-million-people-finds-only-104439398.html?__twitter_impression=true)

(https://media.tenor.com/images/c45532b54ba4728c453076c30f6f79d0/tenor.gif)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 02, 2020, 08:31:08 PM

Quote from: MU82 on June 02, 2020, 06:24:08 PM

I hope Jacksonville enjoys it, as well as the massive COVID-19 hit to follow.

I certainly hope that by August a political convention won’t spark a massive COVID-19 hit. If it does the Republicans will have blood on their hands. How massive do you think the COVID-19 hit will be across the country due to the protests in scores of cities while the virus is still rampant?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 02, 2020, 08:42:24 PM

Quote from: MU82 on June 02, 2020, 06:24:08 PM

Rational? He wants people chanting his name, as well as assorted insults aimed at his massive enemies list. He wants Narcissist Fest 2020.

I hope Jacksonville enjoys it, as well as the massive COVID-19 hit to follow.

I'd wait to make such a prediction until we see if there are outbreaks from the protests.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 02, 2020, 08:57:15 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 02, 2020, 08:42:24 PM

I'd wait to make such a prediction until we see if there are outbreaks from the protests.

Perhaps. But the protests are occurring in the open air, where the experts have already told us there is a lower risk of spread. If they hold the convention in a full arena, it would be a different situation.

If they were to attempt a convention, they would probably mitigate the risk by spreading 20k people around an 80k seat stadium.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 02, 2020, 09:00:06 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 02, 2020, 08:57:15 PM

Perhaps. But the protests are occurring in the open air, where the experts have already told us there is a lower risk of spread. If they hold the convention in a full arena, it would be a different situation.

If they were to attempt a convention, they would probably mitigate the risk by spreading 20k people around an 80k seat stadium.

They could do an open air convention for sure.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on June 02, 2020, 09:15:27 PM

Quote from: MU82 on June 02, 2020, 06:24:08 PM

I hope Jacksonville enjoys it, as well as the massive COVID-19 hit to follow.

Fuvking ghoul.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 02, 2020, 11:23:30 PM

Charlotte officially will not be the site of the RNC.

President Donald Trump said he is moving the Republican National Convention from Charlotte, hours after N.C. Gov. Roy Cooper said he couldn’t guarantee that the August event would be at full capacity due to the coronavirus.

In a tweet Tuesday night, Trump said: “Had long planned to have the Republican National Convention in Charlotte, North Carolina, a place I love. Now, @NC_Governor Roy Cooper and his representatives refuse to guarantee that we can have use of the Spectrum Arena - Spend millions of dollars, have everybody arrive, and then tell them they will not be able to gain entry.

“Governor Cooper is still in Shelter-In-Place Mode, and not allowing us to occupy the arena as originally anticipated and promised. Would have showcased beautiful North Carolina to the World, and brought in hundreds of ..millions of dollars, and jobs, for the State.

“Because of @NC_Governor, we are now forced to seek another State to host the 2020 Republican National Convention.”

Cooper responded on Twitter with a similar message that he had delivered throughout the day.

“We have been committed to a safe RNC convention in North Carolina and it’s unfortunate they never agreed to scale down and make changes to keep people safe. Protecting public health and safety during this pandemic is a priority,” Cooper tweeted Tuesday night.

Cooper said Tuesday that he could not guarantee the “full convention” envisioned by Trump and convention organizers that included 19,000 people in attendance at the Spectrum Center and nearby bars and restaurants operating at capacity. Cooper said it was “very unlikely” that Republicans could have the convention they had envisioned and offered to work on a scaled-down version.

First ... let's do some fact-checking.

Lie #1: "Governor Cooper is still in Shelter-In-Place Mode"

We have been in Phase 2 of our re-opening since May 22, and most business have re-opened. As I said in another thread, I met several of my friends at a brewery for our weekly craft-beer get-together just a few days ago.

Cooper has been re-opening the state despite a rising number of COVID hospitalizations and no downturn in deaths. In other words, ahead of the benchmarks Trump himself had laid out before he did a 180 and declared victory.

Lie #2: "not allowing us to occupy the arena as originally anticipated and promised"

In making excuse after excuse for his horrible response to the pandemic, Trump and his sycophants have said a zillion times there was no way they could have it was coming. But Cooper and other North Carolina leaders, when they agreed to host the RNC 2 years ago (when there were no other serious bidders), were supposed to know a pandemic was coming? Okay then.

Lie #3: "Because of @NC_Governor ... "

Actually, the decision was made by Trump and Trump alone, and it was because he didn't want to follow his own guidelines for dealing with a global pandemic.

Trump asked for a guarantee - 2 1/2 months in advance - that the RNC would be allowed to pack an indoor arena with nearly 20K people, saying that he absolutely would not accept any requirement that convention-goers wear masks or use social-distancing.

As everybody knows, the best way to spread the coronavirus is through people breathing on each other, indoors, in close contact with one another. The RNC has the look of a so-called "super-spreader event."

The NBA and NHL are planning to play games without fans in the stands for this exact reason. So how could NC guarantee a packed Spectrum Center for a political convention?

It's why the DNC is already discussing numerous options for what it will do in Milwaukee in August. Unlike Trump, who is desperate to stage Narcissist Fest 2020 with tens of thousands of fans chanting his name, Biden isn't making ridiculous demands of Milwaukee. One of them cares about the health of Americans; the other cares about himself, as always.

I was on the record numerous times as supporting Charlotte hosting the RNC. I liked the idea of rich Republicans coming here and spending their money in my community. Even after the pandemic hit America, I was still hopeful that the convention would take place. Like all communities, we can use the jobs and the money.

But it was Trump who demanded a guarantee that couldn't possibly be made by a responsible governor.

BTW, I do not blame the RNC for seeking some kind of assurances. Wherever the convention is held, they will have to make a multimillion-dollar commitment in infrastructure, logistics, etc.

However, Trump and the RNC's complete unwillingness to consider any mitigation to keep everybody healthy, or to consider a scaled-down event if necessary - concessions the DNC has signaled they are willing to make with Milwaukee - is what really led to this point of the RNC deciding against Charlotte.

My post earlier today - "I hope Jacksonville enjoys it, as well as the massive COVID-19 hit to follow" - was meant as a joke but it was unnecessarily flippant. And I agree with Ziggy that it even sounded ghoulish.

Like all of us, I obviously do not wish sickness, pain or death on anybody anywhere.

As much as I wish Charlotte could have gotten the jobs and dollars, I am glad our governor did not value those over the lives of our citizens and the lives of those who would have been visiting.

Finally, given the events of the past few days, I am relieved that a dangerous emperor-wannabe - who just attacked peaceful protesters with tear gas and other weapons so he could stage a photo-op for himself - will not be running Narcissist Fest 2020 in my town.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on June 03, 2020, 01:20:43 AM

UK-bookmaker Ladbrokes is now offering daily odds on which phrases will be included in Trump’s first tweet of the morning, with options like “Antifa,” “Sleepy Joe,” “Terrorists” and “Fake news.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on June 03, 2020, 08:51:25 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on June 02, 2020, 09:15:27 PM

Fuvking ghoul.

He was just funnin’ with all of us.  It was a joke.   ::)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on June 03, 2020, 08:59:17 AM

Quote from: WarriorDad on June 03, 2020, 08:51:25 AM

He was just funnin’ with all of us.  It was a joke.   ::)

If anyone knows hot takes, it MU82.

I mean, he is the founder of slut shaming.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 03, 2020, 09:04:21 AM

I thought the new word for this was sarcasm.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: WarriorDad on June 03, 2020, 09:05:33 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on June 03, 2020, 08:59:17 AM

If anyone knows hot takes, it MU82.

I mean, he is the founder of slut shaming.

His non apology was very Orangemanesque.  Right out of his playbook.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 03, 2020, 09:08:28 AM

Now we know why so many are entering the race for the vaccine.  This could create a huge market opportunity.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/06/02/dr-anthony-fauci-says-theres-a-chance-coronavirus-vaccine-may-not-provide-immunity-for-very-long.html (https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/06/02/dr-anthony-fauci-says-theres-a-chance-coronavirus-vaccine-may-not-provide-immunity-for-very-long.html)

If Covid-19 acts like other coronaviruses, "it likely isn't going to be a long duration of immunity," Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said during an interview Tuesday evening with JAMA Editor Howard Bauchner.

"When you look at the history of coronaviruses, the common coronaviruses that cause the common cold, the reports in the literature are that the durability of immunity that's protective ranges from three to six months to almost always less than a year," he said. "That's not a lot of durability and protection."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 03, 2020, 12:37:40 PM

Just saw this one from one of the monthly engineering magazines.

---

https://www.designdevelopmenttoday.com/video/video/21135754/new-ford-feature-burns-germs-out-of-police-suvs?lt.usr=72314481&utm_source=Design+Development+Update_06032020&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=102555&utm_term=557831

Ford Burns Virus Out of Police SUVs
The interior temperature of the cruiser can be raised to more than 130 degrees.

Jun 3rd, 2020
Unit 202 Productions Eric Sorensen David Mantey

In yet another example of a manufacturer working overtime to solve a pandemic-related problem in record time, Ford has unveiled a solution that helps law enforcement better sanitize their vehicles.

If you’re experiencing elevated anxiety levels throughout this pandemic, you may want to fast-forward to the end, because what I’m about to describe to you is tailor-made for nightmares.

Here goes.

Ford has unveiled a software feature that burns the germs out of the Explorer police SUVs being used by the New York Police Department. Using a combination of the vehicle’s cabin ventilation system and its engine, the interior temperature of the cruiser can be raised to 133 degrees Fahrenheit for a 15-minute stretch, effectively killing 99% of germs, including coronavirus.

The process for initiating the oven is said to be complicated enough that it won’t be set into motion on accident. Ford says it involves a special series of switches and buttons, and that the user would need to be “paying attention” in order to start the process. Once its activated, the user leaves the vehicle and the doors automatically lock.

But don’t panic, panickers: if, by chance, you’re still inside when the process starts, any adjustment of the controls — such as pressing a pedal or moving the gear shift — stops it automatically.

According to CNN Business, this heating process is actually superior to other germ-killing techniques because it reaches every single area of the interior, especially hard-to-reach places that a disinfectant spray might miss.

Ford vehicle interiors are reportedly heat-tested to 176 degrees during routine quality control, so they won’t be damaged by the process. The only damage will come to your psyche as you think about the germ-killing SUV oven as you lay awake at night.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on June 03, 2020, 03:37:17 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 03, 2020, 12:37:40 PM

Just saw this one from one of the monthly engineering magazines.

---

https://www.designdevelopmenttoday.com/video/video/21135754/new-ford-feature-burns-germs-out-of-police-suvs?lt.usr=72314481&utm_source=Design+Development+Update_06032020&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=102555&utm_term=557831

Ford Burns Virus Out of Police SUVs
The interior temperature of the cruiser can be raised to more than 130 degrees.

This reminds me of about 10 years ago when I was south of Cleveland at a client.  I had brutal bed bugs in the room and got jacked up pretty good by them.  The hotel of course paid for dry cleaning but I was worried about bringing stuff home, particularly in my bags.

Fortunately I had a shop floor to rely on... I found the machinist on the heat treat machine,  and put all my bags including clothes except the ones I was wearing on a toasty 150 degrees for one hour.  And the beauty of those machines is it ensures every nook and cranny gets to very close to 150 degrees.

A week later at home... no bed bugs took to the trip with me.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 03, 2020, 08:05:24 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 03, 2020, 12:37:40 PM

Just saw this one from one of the monthly engineering magazines.

---

https://www.designdevelopmenttoday.com/video/video/21135754/new-ford-feature-burns-germs-out-of-police-suvs?lt.usr=72314481&utm_source=Design+Development+Update_06032020&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=102555&utm_term=557831

Ford Burns Virus Out of Police SUVs
The interior temperature of the cruiser can be raised to more than 130 degrees.

Jun 3rd, 2020
Unit 202 Productions Eric Sorensen David Mantey

In yet another example of a manufacturer working overtime to solve a pandemic-related problem in record time, Ford has unveiled a solution that helps law enforcement better sanitize their vehicles.

If you’re experiencing elevated anxiety levels throughout this pandemic, you may want to fast-forward to the end, because what I’m about to describe to you is tailor-made for nightmares.

Here goes.

Ford has unveiled a software feature that burns the germs out of the Explorer police SUVs being used by the New York Police Department. Using a combination of the vehicle’s cabin ventilation system and its engine, the interior temperature of the cruiser can be raised to 133 degrees Fahrenheit for a 15-minute stretch, effectively killing 99% of germs, including coronavirus.

The process for initiating the oven is said to be complicated enough that it won’t be set into motion on accident. Ford says it involves a special series of switches and buttons, and that the user would need to be “paying attention” in order to start the process. Once its activated, the user leaves the vehicle and the doors automatically lock.

But don’t panic, panickers: if, by chance, you’re still inside when the process starts, any adjustment of the controls — such as pressing a pedal or moving the gear shift — stops it automatically.

According to CNN Business, this heating process is actually superior to other germ-killing techniques because it reaches every single area of the interior, especially hard-to-reach places that a disinfectant spray might miss.

Ford vehicle interiors are reportedly heat-tested to 176 degrees during routine quality control, so they won’t be damaged by the process. The only damage will come to your psyche as you think about the germ-killing SUV oven as you lay awake at night.

Just my educated opinion, they either need to increase the temp or the time.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 04, 2020, 08:44:21 AM

This is really good news if proven to be accurate.  Really good news.

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/state-and-regional/no-new-covid-19-cases-from-lake-of-the-ozarks-crowds-missouri-health-director-says/article_6f36ad32-d125-5382-b78f-74bd0f6510ac.html?fbclid=IwAR0eEmmd_XGeD59zVswGnukh4IlJDR8rSub4W68gNTduFrAjWYIcb2oSs_U

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on June 04, 2020, 08:45:44 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 04, 2020, 08:44:21 AM

This is really good news if proven to be accurate.  Really good news.

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/state-and-regional/no-new-covid-19-cases-from-lake-of-the-ozarks-crowds-missouri-health-director-says/article_6f36ad32-d125-5382-b78f-74bd0f6510ac.html?fbclid=IwAR0eEmmd_XGeD59zVswGnukh4IlJDR8rSub4W68gNTduFrAjWYIcb2oSs_U

Nice

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on June 04, 2020, 08:47:27 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 04, 2020, 08:44:21 AM

This is really good news if proven to be accurate.  Really good news.

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/state-and-regional/no-new-covid-19-cases-from-lake-of-the-ozarks-crowds-missouri-health-director-says/article_6f36ad32-d125-5382-b78f-74bd0f6510ac.html?fbclid=IwAR0eEmmd_XGeD59zVswGnukh4IlJDR8rSub4W68gNTduFrAjWYIcb2oSs_U

BS Fluffy. You WANT there to be a spike with re-opening. You commie

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 04, 2020, 08:50:22 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 04, 2020, 08:44:21 AM

This is really good news if proven to be accurate.  Really good news.

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/state-and-regional/no-new-covid-19-cases-from-lake-of-the-ozarks-crowds-missouri-health-director-says/article_6f36ad32-d125-5382-b78f-74bd0f6510ac.html?fbclid=IwAR0eEmmd_XGeD59zVswGnukh4IlJDR8rSub4W68gNTduFrAjWYIcb2oSs_U

It would be great if true, but it's still too early to draw any conclusions, because Memorial Day was only ten days ago. With an incubation period of about two weeks, plus the week or so it takes to get test results back, I would say we have at least another week or two before we have any numbers about Memorial Day weekend that matter.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 04, 2020, 09:45:43 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 04, 2020, 08:50:22 AM

It would be great if true, but it's still too early to draw any conclusions, because Memorial Day was only ten days ago. With an incubation period of about two weeks, plus the week or so it takes to get test results back, I would say we have at least another week or two before we have any numbers about Memorial Day weekend that matter.

Yup.  The news is encouraging at a minimum, but the jury is still out.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 04, 2020, 01:15:13 PM

The number of confirmed cases is growing faster than ever as new hot spots emerge around the world.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/04/world/coronavirus-us-update.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20200604&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=cta&regi_id=88591053&segment_id=30089&user_id=a4394b6a5672354a123af665691a6f2d#link-2c768e19

The coronavirus pandemic is ebbing in some of the countries that were hit hard early on, but the number of new cases is growing faster than ever worldwide, with more than 100,000 reported each day.

Twice as many countries have reported a rise in new cases over the past two weeks as have reported declines, according to a New York Times database. On May 30, more new cases were reported in a single day worldwide than ever before: 134,064. The increase has been driven by emerging hot spots in Latin America, Africa, Asia and the Middle East.

-----------

This is why I believe we may still be in the early phases of this. Cases are decreasing across most of the US (with the effects of reopening, protests, etc tbd), but other areas are now getting pounded. I know the current strategy is to limit international flights, but I wonder how long that will continue....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 04, 2020, 02:13:59 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 04, 2020, 01:15:13 PM

The number of confirmed cases is growing faster than ever as new hot spots emerge around the world.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/04/world/coronavirus-us-update.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20200604&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=cta&regi_id=88591053&segment_id=30089&user_id=a4394b6a5672354a123af665691a6f2d#link-2c768e19

The coronavirus pandemic is ebbing in some of the countries that were hit hard early on, but the number of new cases is growing faster than ever worldwide, with more than 100,000 reported each day.

Twice as many countries have reported a rise in new cases over the past two weeks as have reported declines, according to a New York Times database. On May 30, more new cases were reported in a single day worldwide than ever before: 134,064. The increase has been driven by emerging hot spots in Latin America, Africa, Asia and the Middle East.

-----------

This is why I believe we may still be in the early phases of this. Cases are decreasing across most of the US (with the effects of reopening, protests, etc tbd), but other areas are now getting pounded. I know the current strategy is to limit international flights, but I wonder how long that will continue....

Lots more cases, but also lots more testing.

Hospitalizations and deaths IMHO provide better data. Here in NC, unfortunately, both have been ticking up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 04, 2020, 03:11:14 PM

Quote from: MU82 on June 04, 2020, 02:13:59 PM

Lots more cases, but also lots more testing.

Hospitalizations and deaths IMHO provide better data. Here in NC, unfortunately, both have been ticking up.

Agreed that hospitalizations and deaths are more reliable...at least here and in other developed countries. Unfortunately, with the current spread including many 'third-world' countries, I don't know if hospitalizations will be a reliable indicator due to the lack (or inconsistent availability) of medical facilities. Likewise with deaths; I have no idea how robust and accurate public health reporting systems are in less-developed countries. My fear is that we eventually learn the approximate number of deaths, but there might be a greater lag between the actual deaths and the reported numbers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 04, 2020, 05:59:37 PM

Geneticists have turned up intriguing links between DNA and the disease. Patients with Type A blood, for example, seem to be at greater risk.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/03/health/coronavirus-blood-type-genetics.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

Geneticists have been scouring our DNA for clues. Now, a study by European scientists is the first to document a strong statistical link between genetic variations and Covid-19, the illness caused by the coronavirus.

Variations at two spots in the human genome are associated with an increased risk of respiratory failure in patients with Covid-19, the researchers found. One of these spots includes the gene that determines blood types.

Having Type A blood was linked to a 50 percent increase in the likelihood that a patient would need to get oxygen or to go on a ventilator, according to the new study.

------------

Not surprising that genetic variations result in differing responses to the virus, but the 50% increase in the need for oxygen or mechanical ventilation is pretty striking. Note this study is currently undergoing peer review, so take it with a grain of salt for the moment...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on June 04, 2020, 06:15:39 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 04, 2020, 05:59:37 PM

Geneticists have turned up intriguing links between DNA and the disease. Patients with Type A blood, for example, seem to be at greater risk.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/03/health/coronavirus-blood-type-genetics.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

Geneticists have been scouring our DNA for clues. Now, a study by European scientists is the first to document a strong statistical link between genetic variations and Covid-19, the illness caused by the coronavirus.

Variations at two spots in the human genome are associated with an increased risk of respiratory failure in patients with Covid-19, the researchers found. One of these spots includes the gene that determines blood types.

Having Type A blood was linked to a 50 percent increase in the likelihood that a patient would need to get oxygen or to go on a ventilator, according to the new study.

------------

Not surprising that genetic variations result in differing responses to the virus, but the 50% increase in the need for oxygen or mechanical ventilation is pretty striking. Note this study is currently undergoing peer review, so take it with a grain of salt for the moment...

Interesting.  If memory serves,  I believe caucasians are the most likely to have A+ and A-.  Like over 40% even though they are less than 40% as a population in total.

May explain why Europe and US/Canada got hit harder if this study is onto something.


EDIT:  I recalled incorrectly.  A+/A- is 40% of CAUCASIANS.  Not the total.  Still the largest group but not as stark as I thought.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on June 04, 2020, 07:00:06 PM

A+.  I'm fvcked.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 04, 2020, 07:23:22 PM

Despite what President Pandemic said, there is still a chance that the RNC could be held in Charlotte. The state legislature, which is controlled by Republicans, is trying to pass a bill that would let the convention go on with no significant restrictions. It would let 19,000-plus people pack into Spectrum Center, no masks, no social distancing. They might as well call it the Super-Spreader Convention.

It probably will pass because the GOP has the majority, leaving the governor, Roy Cooper, to veto it. It's hard to say whether there would be enough votes to override his veto. If it's on party lines, the Republicans don't have enough votes.

Even if the veto stands, it's probably a good political move by the GOP. They'll be able to blame the Dems for the area not realizing the $$$ that the convention would have brought. Polls have consistently shown that NC citizens like the governor's response to the pandemic, and he leads his opponent by double-digits, so it's a bit of a Hail Mary.

The opponent, Dan Forest, said: “The repercussions to jobs and livelihoods will be long-lasting. It is clear the Cooper Administration is playing politics."

As for "playing politics" ...

Forest, the opponent, was a huge mover behind the infamous "bathroom bill," which Republicans pushed through in 2016 to legalize discrimination against transgender people. As a result, the area lost numerous huge events -- NBA All-Star Game, a bowl game, an NCAA basketball tournament round, numerous conventions. Events only returned when the law was weakened considerably.

The combined $$$ impact of the events lost due to the bathroom bill was triple what the RNC would bring. But back then, Forest downplayed the impact because it was more important to discriminate against transgenders than to bring money into our econony: “If you look at the most extreme instances of economic impact, by the media and by the universities and the people who come out and say ‘This is the impact,’ that most extreme impact equates to one-tenth of 1 percent of our annual GDP."

Nothing's ever easy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 04, 2020, 07:27:52 PM

Quote from: MU82 on June 04, 2020, 07:23:22 PM

They might as well call it the Super-Spreader Convention.

Isn’t that what they call the adult video convention?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 04, 2020, 07:37:48 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on June 04, 2020, 07:00:06 PM

A+.  I'm fvcked.

Oh, come on... B Positive!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 04, 2020, 07:51:11 PM

I'm B+ and the wife character is A+, really don't want to have to go back on the open market

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 04, 2020, 07:58:05 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 04, 2020, 07:51:11 PM

I'm B+ and the wife character is A+, really don't want to have to go back on the open market

m
Someone set up a poll

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on June 05, 2020, 12:30:52 PM

At press conference today medical team from UPMC said the virus seems to be weakening and new infections do not seem to be near as potent as original rounds of infection.

For those that know more then I, did the SARS outbreak really just kind of disappear over time and could that possibly happen with this strain of coronavirus.  Works it way through a couple mutations and then just runs out of gas?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 05, 2020, 12:51:28 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on June 05, 2020, 12:30:52 PM

At press conference today medical team from UPMC said the virus seems to be weakening and new infections do not seem to be near as potent as original rounds of infection.

For those that know more then I, did the SARS outbreak really just kind of disappear over time and could that possibly happen with this strain of coronavirus.  Works it way through a couple mutations and then just runs out of gas?

It is totally possible that this happens.  I would be ecstatic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on June 05, 2020, 02:00:36 PM

Then POTUS will have been right, just 110,000 deaths late.      But it would be nice if it fizzled out.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 05, 2020, 02:19:18 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on June 05, 2020, 12:30:52 PM

At press conference today medical team from UPMC said the virus seems to be weakening and new infections do not seem to be near as potent as original rounds of infection.

For those that know more then I, did the SARS outbreak really just kind of disappear over time and could that possibly happen with this strain of coronavirus.  Works it way through a couple mutations and then just runs out of gas?

Could very much be the case.  If we have that happening, we need to plan for a potential fall reoccurrence.  That means having folks ready for contact tracing and all the appropriate equipment.  It seems likely if it were to get bad again, that’s when it will happen or start to happen.  It gives us plenty of time to ramp up.  If nothing happens, we can breath a sigh of relief and also understand how to be prepared or at least have a test run

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on June 05, 2020, 03:43:31 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on June 05, 2020, 12:30:52 PM

At press conference today medical team from UPMC said the virus seems to be weakening and new infections do not seem to be near as potent as original rounds of infection.

For those that know more then I, did the SARS outbreak really just kind of disappear over time and could that possibly happen with this strain of coronavirus.  Works it way through a couple mutations and then just runs out of gas?

Is there anything showing that the virus is actually mutating and weakening? And/or how much is a function of viral loads being decreased with better procedures and precautions in place?

If the virus is mutating and weakening, does that have any impact on the effectiveness on the vaccines?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 05, 2020, 03:56:12 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on June 05, 2020, 03:43:31 PM

Is there anything showing that the virus is actually mutating and weakening? And/or how much is a function of viral loads being decreased with better procedures and precautions in place?

If the virus is mutating and weakening, does that have any impact on the effectiveness on the vaccines?

Scott gottleib spoke about this topic.  His opinion is that the mutations have not changed the behavior or strength of the virus.  That is good for vaccine because if it changed it may impact development. 

The anecdotal items on strength (Italy was the one brought up) he chalked up to the season, better treatment and less crowding in hot spots (sick coming in earlier). 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 05, 2020, 04:05:26 PM

I just watched the UPMC press conference. The doc referred to evidence out of Italy that the virus may be weakening, but he didn’t go into any detail. When I looked for news about this, it seems the Italian theory goes against what many in the international medical community believe. I guess time will tell.

But there still was some very good news. He explained that the patients they’re seeing have lower viral loads than previously, and the collective outcomes are becoming less severe.

Just a hunch, but the lower viral load could very well be the result of mask use and social distancing, which we did not have early in the pandemic. And the less severe outcomes may well be a combination of lower viral loads and improved knowledge about how to treat patients effectively.

Those things alone are incredibly good news. If the virus is also mutating to become less potent, that would be even better.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on June 05, 2020, 04:09:18 PM

UPMC?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 05, 2020, 04:28:55 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on June 05, 2020, 04:09:18 PM

UPMC?

University of Pittsburgh Medical Center. Excellent reputation.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on June 05, 2020, 04:45:54 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 05, 2020, 04:28:55 PM

University of Pittsburgh Medical Center. Excellent reputation.

Thanks. Hopefully true. Will be interesting to see the reason. Second place to note this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 05, 2020, 04:55:57 PM

Here's what's going on in the great state of North Carolina. I wish it were better news ...

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/coronavirus/article243299221.html?

The number of people hospitalized with COVID-19 in North Carolina each day has crept up in the last two weeks, and some doctors worry it may be a sign of things to come.

The hospitalization numbers reported by the state Department of Health and Human Services fluctuate from day to day, but from mid-April to mid-May they mostly remained between 400 and 550.

But since May 25, Memorial Day, an average of 671 people a day have been hospitalized with COVID-19 statewide, with the number exceeding 700 four times and hitting a new high of 717 on Friday.

Dr. David Wohl, an infectious disease physician at the UNC School of Medicine in Chapel Hill, says new coronavirus cases can vary with the number of people tested and that counting people who end up in the hospital is a more straightforward measure of the outbreak.

“I think that’s really the truest canary in the coal mine for us,” Wohl said this week. “If we’re seeing people get sick enough to be admitted to the hospital, that’s telling you we have not flattened the curve. So this is the best indicator, I think, that we have of where we are with the pandemic. So it is concerning to me.”

Wohl, who helps run a coronavirus diagnostic center at UNC Medical Center, said hospitalization numbers show the extent of the virus two to three weeks earlier, because it generally takes that long for an infected person to get sick enough to need hospital care. He worries the trend will continue upward because of what’s happened since Memorial Day weekend.

“I think if we’re going to see an uptick due to reopening, due to the protests that we’re seeing, it’s not going to be tomorrow, it’s going to be another two to three weeks from now,” he said.

The governor put our re-opening in Phase 2 on May 22. That let most restaurants, breweries and similar establishments be open at 50% capacity. Many other businesses that had been shuttered also were allowed to re-open. So today is exactly 14 days later. And of course, the protests started about a week ago.

We have several major metro areas here, topped by Charlotte, the nation's 15th-largest city; Raleigh-Durham; Greensboro; and Winston-Salem. None of them are NY or Chi or LA, but there are a lot of people living (and breathing) in close quarters here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 05, 2020, 05:05:56 PM

Hope things turn around there soon, 82.

Up until a few days ago Minnesota seemed to be increasing in lockstep with North Carolina, but it appears we may have reached the peak May 29th or 30th.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 05, 2020, 05:18:41 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 05, 2020, 05:05:56 PM

Hope things turn around there soon, 82.

Up until a few days ago Minnesota seemed to be increasing in lockstep with North Carolina, but it appears we may have reached the peak May 29th or 30th.

Thanks Gooooooooooooooo.

I think the next two weeks will be pretty important here, because of the timing of the state re-opening the economy. If things get worse, it will be pretty easy to make a direct correlation, and the last thing we need is have to go back to more strict mitigation. And the next-to-last thing would be to maintain this status quo and not be able to open up more.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on June 05, 2020, 09:36:24 PM

Quote from: MU82 on June 05, 2020, 05:18:41 PM

Thanks Gooooooooooooooo.

I think the next two weeks will be pretty important here, because of the timing of the state re-opening the economy. If things get worse, it will be pretty easy to make a direct correlation, and the last thing we need is have to go back to more strict mitigation. And the next-to-last thing would be to maintain this status quo and not be able to open up more.

You think the possible uptick in a couple weeks would be a result of reopening economy with safety measures in place  or the protests?  Not sure if there have been a bunch in NC but Fauci said protests are a perfect storm for spreading the virus.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 05, 2020, 10:13:15 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on June 05, 2020, 09:36:24 PM

You think the possible uptick in a couple weeks would be a result of reopening economy with safety measures in place  or the protests?  Not sure if there have been a bunch in NC but Fauci said protests are a perfect storm for spreading the virus.

I absolutely think both.

Just based on what I've read, 14-21 days seems to be kind of the "magic range." This week will fall in that range after the re-opening of much of NC's economy. And the following week will be the range after the protests.

Of course, the latter was the result of an emotional response to centuries of racism in America, while the former was a decision made by politicians.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on June 05, 2020, 10:53:08 PM

Quote from: MU82 on June 05, 2020, 10:13:15 PM

I absolutely think both.

Just based on what I've read, 14-21 days seems to be kind of the "magic range." This week will fall in that range after the re-opening of much of NC's economy. And the following week will be the range after the protests.

Of course, the latter was the result of an emotional response to centuries of racism in America, while the former was a decision made by politicians.

Sure, unfortunately the virus doesn’t give a hoot what the reason for gathering was.  Praying neither the reopening or the protests lead to substantially increased infection!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 05, 2020, 11:15:37 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on June 05, 2020, 10:53:08 PM

Sure, unfortunately the virus doesn’t give a hoot what the reason for gathering was.  Praying neither the reopening or the protests lead to substantially increased infection!!

Yes, it would be excellent if things suddenly reverse course here, and both hospitalizations and deaths as a result of COVID-19 go down substantially.

And not just here, but everywhere.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on June 06, 2020, 01:40:49 AM

https://www.mediaite.com/online/trump-sets-one-day-personal-record-with-a-staggering-200-twitter-posts-amid-economic-public-health-and-racial-justice-crises/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on June 06, 2020, 07:59:43 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on June 05, 2020, 12:30:52 PM

At press conference today medical team from UPMC said the virus seems to be weakening and new infections do not seem to be near as potent as original rounds of infection.

For those that know more then I, did the SARS outbreak really just kind of disappear over time and could that possibly happen with this strain of coronavirus.  Works it way through a couple mutations and then just runs out of gas?

Pace, for SARS in a second round of infections a mutation in the spike protein emerged that decreased the viruses affinity for the ACE2 receptor, which is required for cellular entry. it is believed that mutation decreased infectivity, viral loads, and disease severity. Notably, the spike protein from SARS-COV-2 has a very high affinity for ACE2, which correlates with its disease severity.

As of now, as others have mentioned, there are no indications of any mutations that would decrease the severity of COVID. It is likely for other reasons like Gooo has mentioned, those reasons will go away over time, and the virus doesn't mutate fast enough to really have hope for a mutation emerging, especially with as widespread as the disease is.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 06, 2020, 10:39:23 AM

Near 100% ICU capacity in Arizona for COVID-19.

https://twitter.com/MelissaBlasius/status/1269020760393146374?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 06, 2020, 12:52:22 PM

Uh...maybe Trump should stop helping.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/06/05/trump-maine-puritan-throw-away-coronavirus-swabs/3153622001/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 07, 2020, 07:01:36 AM

Here is an opinion on why the virus is getting less deadly.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-good-news-11591399491 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-good-news-11591399491)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 07, 2020, 10:33:33 AM

If I was running public policy, I would pivot and keep my powder dry for the fall. That doesn't mean throw the doors wide open but between the opening and the protests, if the virus is going to spread it will do so significantly, no putting that genie back in the bottle. Either we're going to overwhelm our healthcare system in a month or there is a seasonal/distancing component that will keep things manageable.

If seasonal you absolutely have to get the mind share that fall will be bad. If not seasonal, everyone will know very quickly that this craps real and will react accordingly.

Based on both evidentiary papers and anecdotal discussions, I don't think the virus is getting less deadly, we are figuring out how to manage it better. I firmly believe in the early days people died that wouldn't have died if they got sick now. So my policy would be to keep building capacity and treatment protocols and focus public policy on a fall wave.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on June 07, 2020, 11:25:03 AM

I never understood why a virus is seasonal. Is it just because people are indoors more in the colder months? Virus goes on vacation in the summer?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 07, 2020, 11:33:12 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on June 07, 2020, 11:25:03 AM

I never understood why a virus is seasonal. Is it just because people are indoors more in the colder months? Virus goes on vacation in the summer?

Couple of reasons:
-more time in the sun in the summer....our bodies fight disease better with sun exposure
-being outdoors for most viruses greatly reduces spread because viral load exposure is greatly reduced.
-Schools are out and a great deal of virus is spread amongst kids and brought home
-people take more vacations so less frequent contact in offices, etc.
-UV kills viruses on surfaces, so the surfaces we are touching outside are less transmissible than indoor surfaces in winter.

Viruses don't die in summer. You can still get the flu in the summer but the transmissionability goes down significantly in the summer

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on June 07, 2020, 04:57:25 PM

Hey, Florida isn't the only place hiding COVID deaths:

Anger as Brazil's Jair Bolsonaro removes surging coronavirus death toll from official websites

Trump's best buddy in Brazil shutting down all COVID-19 statistics. It was just "a little flu".

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/07/bolsonaro-removes-surging-coronavirus-death-toll-official-websites/

Brazil's government was accused of trying to cover up the scale of its catastrophic coronavirus epidemic after it stopped publishing its total rates of deaths and infections.

The move came as president Jair Bolsonaro, who has previously dismissed the deadly virus as “a little flu,” claimed that the official count  was “not representative” of the country’s situation and threatened to pull Brazil out of the World Health Organisation. 

The last figures released before counting stopped showed Brazil had recorded over 34,000 deaths from Covid-19, the third highest in the world after the United States and the United Kingdom. It had 615,000 infections, the second-highest behind the United States

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on June 07, 2020, 05:08:06 PM

I have said all along that Brazil is a better comp than Sweden.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on June 08, 2020, 07:31:02 AM

Our for-profit healthcare system at its finest. Charging $7k for a coronavirus test.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/08/coronavirus-test-costs-304058

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on June 08, 2020, 01:05:16 PM

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/06/08/asymptomatic-coronavirus-patients-arent-spreading-new-infections-who-says.html?__twitter_impression=true

So if you’re sick stay home or wear a mask when you’re out.  If you’re not sick forget the mask and go about your business?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 08, 2020, 01:11:23 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on June 08, 2020, 01:05:16 PM

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/06/08/asymptomatic-coronavirus-patients-arent-spreading-new-infections-who-says.html?__twitter_impression=true

So if you’re sick stay home or wear a mask when you’re out.  If you’re not sick forget the mask and go about your business?

That would be excellent news!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on June 08, 2020, 01:20:12 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 08, 2020, 01:11:23 PM

That would be excellent news!

Certainly would and if as they learn more this turns out to be the case all schools should be back on the fall with mandatory temp checks before coming in. 

Do we know what symptom presents first?  Kids and employees wear masks as they enter school and can’t remove until after passing the temp check.  Same for at a workplace.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 08, 2020, 01:38:15 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on June 08, 2020, 01:20:12 PM

Certainly would and if as they learn more this turns out to be the case all schools should be back on the fall with mandatory temp checks before coming in. 

Do we know what symptom presents first?  Kids and employees wear masks as they enter school and can’t remove until after passing the temp check.  Same for at a workplace.

Unfortunately, the symptoms are highly variable. The first symptom for a given individual might be fever, cough, sore throat, headache, loss of taste or smell, or several other things. Here is the CDC's current list.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/symptoms-testing/symptoms.html

That's why I take pause in any conclusion that COVID can't spread asymptomatically. Some people get headaches every day, so they may deny any COVID symptoms because they may not even realize their headache one day was COVID and not stress or whatever.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 08, 2020, 01:48:55 PM

Quote from: forgetful on June 08, 2020, 07:31:02 AM

Our for-profit healthcare system at its finest. Charging $7k for a coronavirus test.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/08/coronavirus-test-costs-304058

That is pretty deplorable. I don't know what the going rate is nationally, but the MN Department of Public Health is offering free testing. The intro says it is focused on those in the neighborhoods most affected by the protests, but the eligibility criteria say "open to everyone" and "free, no insurance needed."

https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases/coronavirus/testsites.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on June 08, 2020, 02:36:28 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 08, 2020, 01:48:55 PM

That is pretty deplorable. I don't know what the going rate is nationally, but the MN Department of Public Health is offering free testing. The intro says it is focused on those in the neighborhoods most affected by the protests, but the eligibility criteria say "open to everyone" and "free, no insurance needed."

https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases/coronavirus/testsites.html

That's great that MN is doing that. I know of some other locales doing something similar. Unfortunately some of the smaller clinics are charging a fortune, often partnering with smaller testing labs for kickbacks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on June 08, 2020, 06:04:51 PM

So all you "believe the science" people(and there are TONS of you here). What say you now?? It was FAKE science all along. We were lied to..healthy people(at no risk of spreading it according to who) were locked down for months, businesses were forced to be closed,  and the economy laid in tatters. Those of us that thought all along this was being made out to be way more than what it was(because we used common sense, and didn't believe the science) have been vindicated 100%. All you science loving folks owe a lot of people a lot of apologies for the fear mongering and anxiety you put people through all these months, for no reason whatsoever. It just goes to show you how gullable a lot of people are in this country, and sadly how many believe everything they are told(thanks CNN,MSNBC, Fauci etc). Those of us that never believed this hoax, look awfully smart today. people have a lot of splaining to do, I'd say. It was pretty obvious from day 1 what this was really about..I know most of you will not believe that(even though you know it's true, always has been), but I hope you all feel really really really duped right now...you should, because you were. That's your own faults though.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 08, 2020, 06:09:05 PM

Quote from: muguru on June 08, 2020, 06:04:51 PM

So all you "believe the science" people(and there are TONS of you here). What say you now?? It was FAKE science all along. We were lied to..healthy people(at no risk of spreading it according to who) were locked down for months, businesses were forced to be closed,  and the economy laid in tatters. Those of us that thought all along this was being made out to be way more than what it was(because we used common sense, and didn't believe the science) have been vindicated 100%. All you science loving folks owe a lot of people a lot of apologies for the fear mongering and anxiety you put people through all these months, for no reason whatsoever. It just goes to show you how gullable a lot of people are in this country, and sadly how many believe everything they are told(thanks CNN,MSNBC, Fauci etc). Those of us that never believed this hoax, look awfully smart today. people have a lot of splaining to do, I'd say. It was pretty obvious from day 1 what this was really about..I know most of you will not believe that(even though you know it's true, always has been), but I hope you all feel really really really duped right now...you should, because you were. That's your own faults though.

Uhhhh.  You clearly aren’t understanding a few things. There are plenty of examples worldwide that show how shutting things down flattened the curve. Which is what the intent was. 

If you’re gonna continue to say it was a hoax, then really there’s not much hope for you anyway.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 08, 2020, 06:24:49 PM

That article is a little bit dangerous....there is asymptomatic (have bit ut show no symptoms) and there is pre-symptomatic (have it but symptoms haven't yet developed). If they are saying the former that's ok news, if they are saying both that's tremendous news and we can go back to wide open as long as people self isolated if they feel any symptoms.....but I simply can't imagine the type of spread we saw with only symptomatic spreaders

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 08, 2020, 06:26:00 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 08, 2020, 01:38:15 PM

Unfortunately, the symptoms are highly variable. The first symptom for a given individual might be fever, cough, sore throat, headache, loss of taste or smell, or several other things. Here is the CDC's current list.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/symptoms-testing/symptoms.html

That's why I take pause in any conclusion that COVID can't spread asymptomatically. Some people get headaches every day, so they may deny any COVID symptoms because they may not even realize their headache one day was COVID and not stress or whatever.

"She acknowledged that some studies have indicated asymptomatic or presymptomatic spread in nursing homes and in household settings."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 08, 2020, 06:32:14 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 08, 2020, 06:24:49 PM

That article is a little bit dangerous....there is asymptomatic (have bit ut show no symptoms) and there is pre-symptomatic (have it but symptoms haven't yet developed). If they are saying the former that's ok news, if they are saying both that's tremendous news and we can go back to wide open as long as people self isolated if they feel any symptoms.....but I simply can't imagine the type of spread we saw with only symptomatic spreaders

I agree. I take the message as your best bang for the buck is find the symptomatic, trace and isolate.  I think those predisposed to not wanting to do distancing/mask will read it otherwise. 

But who knows.  China has said they never cared about asymptomatic.  Japan isn’t really testing. Just distancing/mask. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on June 08, 2020, 07:05:19 PM

Plus, I don’t think the article is definitive. It also says that asymptomatic is rare, not impossible.

Also, I don’t know that people who show symptoms would isolate without an order. Heck, I’d probably brush it off as just allergies unless I had a fever. We have a culture that if it’s just a cold, you are weak if you stay home.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 08, 2020, 07:10:31 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 08, 2020, 06:09:05 PM

Uhhhh.  You clearly aren’t understanding a few things. There are plenty of examples worldwide that show how shutting things down flattened the curve. Which is what the intent was. 

If you’re gonna continue to say it was a hoax, then really there’s not much hope for you anyway.

Of course it wasn’t a “hoax” - that’s patently false and foolish. However, the curve was flattened awhile ago. We stayed closed long after it was clear that the hospital system wouldn’t be overwhelmed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 08, 2020, 07:18:22 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 08, 2020, 07:10:31 PM

Of course it wasn’t a “hoax” - that’s patently false and foolish. However, the curve was flattened awhile ago. We stayed closed long after it was clear that the hospital system wouldn’t be overwhelmed.

Not many places fit that description.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 08, 2020, 07:20:29 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 08, 2020, 07:10:31 PM

Of course it wasn’t a “hoax” - that’s patently false and foolish. However, the curve was flattened awhile ago. We stayed closed long after it was clear that the hospital system wouldn’t be overwhelmed.

I think everyone is moving there Lenny.  I don’t have an opinion for other states but here it’s all moving ahead.  The drag for the economy that I see day to day is 1. Increased costs of prevention, 2. Areas of softer demand due to lack of desire and 3. Companies not seeing the need to take on the risk of opening offices for salary employees and 4. Some restrictions still in place. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 08, 2020, 07:34:02 PM

Quote from: muguru on June 08, 2020, 06:04:51 PM

So all you "believe the science" people(and there are TONS of you here). What say you now?? It was FAKE science all along. We were lied to..healthy people(at no risk of spreading it according to who) were locked down for months, businesses were forced to be closed,  and the economy laid in tatters. Those of us that thought all along this was being made out to be way more than what it was(because we used common sense, and didn't believe the science) have been vindicated 100%. All you science loving folks owe a lot of people a lot of apologies for the fear mongering and anxiety you put people through all these months, for no reason whatsoever. It just goes to show you how gullable a lot of people are in this country, and sadly how many believe everything they are told(thanks CNN,MSNBC, Fauci etc). Those of us that never believed this hoax, look awfully smart today. people have a lot of splaining to do, I'd say. It was pretty obvious from day 1 what this was really about..I know most of you will not believe that(even though you know it's true, always has been), but I hope you all feel really really really duped right now...you should, because you were. That's your own faults though.

A worldwide hoax to take down President Pandemic.  Those 100,000 plus dead won’t be able to cash their Soros checks.  Hopefully, their families can still get that sweet Soros cash. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on June 08, 2020, 07:37:44 PM

Quote from: muguru on June 08, 2020, 06:04:51 PM

So all you "believe the science" people(and there are TONS of you here). What say you now?? It was FAKE science all along. We were lied to..healthy people(at no risk of spreading it according to who) were locked down for months, businesses were forced to be closed,  and the economy laid in tatters. Those of us that thought all along this was being made out to be way more than what it was(because we used common sense, and didn't believe the science) have been vindicated 100%. All you science loving folks owe a lot of people a lot of apologies for the fear mongering and anxiety you put people through all these months, for no reason whatsoever. It just goes to show you how gullable a lot of people are in this country, and sadly how many believe everything they are told(thanks CNN,MSNBC, Fauci etc). Those of us that never believed this hoax, look awfully smart today. people have a lot of splaining to do, I'd say. It was pretty obvious from day 1 what this was really about..I know most of you will not believe that(even though you know it's true, always has been), but I hope you all feel really really really duped right now...you should, because you were. That's your own faults though.

Science works and idiots like yourself still try to prevail.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 08, 2020, 07:43:26 PM

I’m sorry, 113,000 dead as part of a hoax.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on June 08, 2020, 07:44:09 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 08, 2020, 06:24:49 PM

That article is a little bit dangerous....there is asymptomatic (have bit ut show no symptoms) and there is pre-symptomatic (have it but symptoms haven't yet developed). If they are saying the former that's ok news, if they are saying both that's tremendous news and we can go back to wide open as long as people self isolated if they feel any symptoms.....but I simply can't imagine the type of spread we saw with only symptomatic spreaders

I agree but with how relaxed we have become with hygiene it would not completely shock me.  The pressure of a parent to stay at work when sick cause they cannot afford to take a day without pay or sending kids to school cause said parent cannot afford to take time off and pay daycare to stay home with their child.  That will spread things quick.  Kids getting sick but not too sick at school with the virus passing it onto mom and dad at home who pass it on at work or to grandma and grandpa.
No doubt it spreads fast

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on June 08, 2020, 08:02:47 PM

Quote from: Retire0 on June 08, 2020, 07:37:44 PM

Science works and idiots like yourself still try to prevail.

How'd the "science" work here?? Answer: It didn't! For months and months we were told the biggest problem with this disease was people that were asymptomatic, passing it to others. Now we find out...wait for it...that wasn't true. That's science for ya. Which means, there was a very simple solution all along..sick people stay home and isolate, people who aren't sick go about your business..you know, like we do every day anyway?? Instead, people freaking panicked, they ran scared, they were terrified(thanks liberal media), we locked everything down and people lost jobs because a lot of people in this country were duped into believing a lie(not coronavirus but spreading via asymptomatic), perpetuated by the side known for it's lies and deceit, and shameful tactics to fit an agenda.

It's obvious not enough of you were influenced by the great Professor McAdams while you were at Marquette. Had you been, you would be a lot more knowledgeable of what is really happening in this country instead of allowing yourselves to just believe everything the liberal media tells you. It's baffling how many people are really that naive, but here we are..

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 08, 2020, 08:07:22 PM

Quote from: muguru on June 08, 2020, 08:02:47 PM

It’s obvious not enough of you were influenced by the great Professor McAdams while you were at Marquette. Had you been, you would be a lot more knowledgeable of what is really happening in this country instead of allowing yourselves to just believe everything the liberal media tells you. It's baffling how many people are really that naive, but here we are..

Did you take Prof McAdams class?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 08, 2020, 08:15:03 PM

Quote from: muguru on June 08, 2020, 08:02:47 PM

How'd the "science" work here?? Answer: It didn't! For months and months we were told the biggest problem with this disease was people that were asymptomatic, passing it to others. Now we find out...wait for it...that wasn't true.

Uh no.

Yet again a failure at simple reading comprehension.

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 08, 2020, 08:07:22 PM

Did you take Prof McAdams class?

Lol. Yeah no kidding...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on June 08, 2020, 08:16:05 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 08, 2020, 08:07:22 PM

Did you take Prof McAdams class?

muguru is not an alum. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on June 08, 2020, 09:05:19 PM

Quote from: tower912 on June 08, 2020, 08:16:05 PM

muguru is not an alum.

Correct...but i know of Prof McAdams, I know that he's the truth, and I also know if every University had many more profs like him instead of the liberal hacks most Universities have as Professors now that absolutely push their beliefs on to millions of gullable students every year, that in itself would clean up a lot of the problems in this world. I honestly don't know what's worse...the professors that push their liberal agendas on their influential, naive students, or those of you that eat up and believe everything they say. You leave college with a degree, but your obviously not very educated.

At the very least, do yourselves a favor and listen to Mark Belling and Rush Limbaugh...listen and learn. You're never too old to learn..better late than never.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on June 08, 2020, 09:07:26 PM

I listened to Limbaugh in the 90s.   Stopped for a myriad of reasons.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on June 08, 2020, 09:13:32 PM

Quote from: muguru on June 08, 2020, 08:02:47 PM

How'd the "science" work here?? Answer: It didn't! For months and months we were told the biggest problem with this disease was people that were asymptomatic, passing it to others. Now we find out...wait for it...that wasn't true. That's science for ya. Which means, there was a very simple solution all along..sick people stay home and isolate, people who aren't sick go about your business..you know, like we do every day anyway?? Instead, people freaking panicked, they ran scared, they were terrified(thanks liberal media), we locked everything down and people lost jobs because a lot of people in this country were duped into believing a lie(not coronavirus but spreading via asymptomatic), perpetuated by the side known for it's lies and deceit, and shameful tactics to fit an agenda.

It's obvious not enough of you were influenced by the great Professor McAdams while you were at Marquette. Had you been, you would be a lot more knowledgeable of what is really happening in this country instead of allowing yourselves to just believe everything the liberal media tells you. It's baffling how many people are really that naive, but here we are..

Pretty sure the lockdowns were because of a deadly disease spreading throughout the nation, and inadequate testing to be able to prevent the spread. That unchecked spread led to over 100k people dead in this country. Many more would have died if we didn't lick down. Asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic spread was an exacerbating aspect. As Gooo mentioned, it is important to determine what is meant about "asymptomatic".

Also, one of the things Trump railed on China and the WHO for, was lying about "asymptomatic spread" where they originally said it was not a major source of illness. So was China and the WHO still at fault...Was Trump part of the problem?...sorry I just can't keep up with who is at fault anymore. Or is it always, just blame everyone else no matter what.

What I would like to caution people on is the ridiculousness in there statements. Many more would have died without the lockdown, we are where we are at right now in terms of having some control of this illness because of the lockdown. The fact things are decent now, and we were able to reopen reasonably safely, is because of the lockdown. Saying the lockdown was useless is frankly, ignorant.

It would be as if I were to say, look we could have locked down forever, clearly it didn't impact the economy because jobs are growing and the Nasdaq hit an all time high. So we should have stayed locked down...the lockdown if anything was helping the economy. Such a statement would be ignorant, because it disregards what would happen with a continued lockdown...it is equivalently ignorant as saying the "lockdown was pointless".

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on June 08, 2020, 09:15:27 PM

Not going to get into the debate over the COVID deaths and whether it was an hoax.

However,  as a business owner (non-scientist) I will say this: most of the reason humanity has progressed as far as it has is mainly due to science.  Whether it be physics,  medicine,  biology,  chemistry, . et al.  most of our standard of living can be directly attributed to various scientific discoveries.

Inventors have been great,  but most of their inventions were directly attributable to scientific theories, or they themselves applied science to their discovery.

Will never understand the anti-science vibe in certain segments of society.  Truly sad.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on June 08, 2020, 09:26:24 PM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on June 08, 2020, 09:15:27 PM

Not going to get into the debate over the COVID deaths and whether it was an hoax.

However,  as a business owner (non-scientist) I will say this: most of the reason humanity has progressed as far as it has is mainly due to science.  Whether it be physics,  medicine,  biology,  chemistry, . et al.  most of our standard of living can be directly attributed to various scientific discoveries.

Inventors have been great,  but most of their inventions were directly attributable to scientific theories, or they themselves applied science to their discovery.

Will never understand the anti-science vibe in certain segments of society.  Truly sad.

Another thing re. science. Is it is usually meant to be a slow process where we build upon other insights and mistakes. It is an iterative process of growth, sometimes setbacks, but always trying to improve on models and knowledge.

What people are seeing play out in real time, in public, is what usually goes on behind the scenes. New discoveries...new experiments and data...realization that the discoveries were incomplete or wrong...refine the conclusions...collect more data, and on and on.

6 months ago we didn't even know what this virus was. The amount of data and discoveries we have made in that timeframe is mesmerizing, and should be applauded. It is sad when people focus on things individuals got wrong. Each incorrect answer, will likely lead to 5-10 new discoveries. Respect the process and keep scienceing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 08, 2020, 09:30:09 PM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on June 08, 2020, 09:15:27 PM

Not going to get into the debate over the COVID deaths and whether it was an hoax.

However,  as a business owner (non-scientist) I will say this: most of the reason humanity has progressed as far as it has is mainly due to science.  Whether it be physics,  medicine,  biology,  chemistry, . et al.  most of our standard of living can be directly attributed to various scientific discoveries.

Inventors have been great,  but most of their inventions were directly attributable to scientific theories, or they themselves applied science to their discovery.

Will never understand the anti-science vibe in certain segments of society.  Truly sad.

Very well stated Dano.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 08, 2020, 09:34:15 PM

Quote from: forgetful on June 08, 2020, 09:26:24 PM

Another thing re. science. Is it is usually meant to be a slow process where we build upon other insights and mistakes. It is an iterative process of growth, sometimes setbacks, but always trying to improve on models and knowledge.

What people are seeing play out in real time, in public, is what usually goes on behind the scenes. New discoveries...new experiments and data...realization that the discoveries were incomplete or wrong...refine the conclusions...collect more data, and on and on.

6 months ago we didn't even know what this virus was. The amount of data and discoveries we have made in that timeframe is mesmerizing, and should be applauded. It is sad when people focus on things individuals got wrong. Each incorrect answer, will likely lead to 5-10 new discoveries. Respect the process and keep scienceing.

Forgetful

People want definitive answers and want them immediately - they don’t have a basic understanding of how science works. Thanks to you, Dano and others for keeping us on track.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on June 08, 2020, 09:41:06 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 08, 2020, 09:30:09 PM

Very well stated Dano.

Science is useful in a lot of instances. However, when it's clearly something else (that should be obvious to any intelligent person) but being masked as "science" is when it's a problem. For instance, it wasn't "rocket science" to know, everyone in the world didn't need to be locked down for months. What should have happened from day 1 was we isolate or "lock down" the most vulnerable. Instead, people with agenda's peddled lies and misconception and got people to believe something that never was a necessity for many different reasons. Science will never be wiser then common sense. All it took was common sense to see thru a lot of this. Unfortunately we live in a world where so many lack that common sense.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 08, 2020, 09:48:28 PM

Quote from: muguru on June 08, 2020, 09:05:19 PM

At the very least, do yourselves a favor and listen to Mark Belling and Rush Limbaugh.

We learned from Limbaugh that COVID-19 "is a cold, the common cold."

That was this year. A few years back, we learned from him that all those who illegally use drugs should be imprisoned ... until he got caught illegally using drugs. Then he wasn't as sure that imprisonment was the right punishment for those who illegally used drugs.

And of course, we also learned from him that the only reason Donovan McNabb got any credit was because he was black. Yet another great "lesson" from an old white racist.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on June 08, 2020, 09:58:47 PM

Quote from: muguru on June 08, 2020, 09:41:06 PM

Science is useful in a lot of instances. However, when it's clearly something else (that should be obvious to any intelligent person) but being masked as "science" is when it's a problem. For instance, it wasn't "rocket science" to know, everyone in the world didn't need to be locked down for months. What should have happened from day 1 was we isolate or "lock down" the most vulnerable. Instead, people with agenda's peddled lies and misconception and got people to believe something that never was a necessity for many different reasons. Science will never be wiser then common sense. All it took was common sense to see thru a lot of this. Unfortunately we live in a world where so many lack that common sense.

I assume you're trying to say that the lockdown was pushed by the libs in an attempt to hurt Trump's re election chances.

If so, why did other countries also lockdown way before the virus hit the US?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on June 08, 2020, 10:09:49 PM

Quote from: forgetful on June 08, 2020, 09:26:24 PM

Another thing re. science. Is it is usually meant to be a slow process where we build upon other insights and mistakes. It is an iterative process of growth, sometimes setbacks, but always trying to improve on models and knowledge.

What people are seeing play out in real time, in public, is what usually goes on behind the scenes. New discoveries...new experiments and data...realization that the discoveries were incomplete or wrong...refine the conclusions...collect more data, and on and on.

6 months ago we didn't even know what this virus was. The amount of data and discoveries we have made in that timeframe is mesmerizing, and should be applauded. It is sad when people focus on things individuals got wrong. Each incorrect answer, will likely lead to 5-10 new discoveries. Respect the process and keep scienceing.

Good points, forgetful.

Would be smart of people from all perspectives to remember that, especially many of the "smart people" here that stifle and ridicule anything that doesn't fit their "expert" opinion.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 08, 2020, 10:12:17 PM

What I want to know is who told Guru this board was here. That person should be beaten.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 08, 2020, 10:16:26 PM

Quote from: muguru on June 08, 2020, 09:41:06 PM

Science is useful in a lot of instances. However, when it's clearly something else (that should be obvious to any intelligent person) but being masked as "science" is when it's a problem. For instance, it wasn't "rocket science" to know, everyone in the world didn't need to be locked down for months. What should have happened from day 1 was we isolate or "lock down" the most vulnerable. Instead, people with agenda's peddled lies and misconception and got people to believe something that never was a necessity for many different reasons. Science will never be wiser then common sense. All it took was common sense to see thru a lot of this. Unfortunately we live in a world where so many lack that common sense.

It is neither intelligent nor common sense to ignore what the most current scientific data says. Choose to believe otherwise if you wish.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 08, 2020, 10:27:47 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on June 06, 2020, 10:39:23 AM

Near 100% ICU capacity in Arizona for COVID-19.

https://twitter.com/MelissaBlasius/status/1269020760393146374?s=19

Banner Health Statement:

https://twitter.com/BannerHealth/status/1270094394570321921?s=19

https://amp.azcentral.com/amp/5321075002?cid=twitter_azcentral&__twitter_impression=true

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on June 09, 2020, 03:16:42 AM

Quote from: muguru on June 08, 2020, 09:41:06 PM

Science is useful in a lot of instances. However, when it's clearly something else (that should be obvious to any intelligent person) but being masked as "science" is when it's a problem. For instance, it wasn't "rocket science" to know, everyone in the world didn't need to be locked down for months. What should have happened from day 1 was we isolate or "lock down" the most vulnerable. Instead, people with agenda's peddled lies and misconception and got people to believe something that never was a necessity for many different reasons. Science will never be wiser then common sense. All it took was common sense to see thru a lot of this. Unfortunately we live in a world where so many lack that common sense.

His full name is Mu Guru Dunning-Kruger

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 09, 2020, 05:50:37 AM

This is interesting info potentially.  Also there is evidence that China had the genome sequenced at some point in Dec.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/public-global-health/501621-researchers-satellite-images-hint-coronavirus-started (https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/public-global-health/501621-researchers-satellite-images-hint-coronavirus-started)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 09, 2020, 06:35:22 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 09, 2020, 05:50:37 AM

This is interesting info potentially.  Also there is evidence that China had the genome sequenced at some point in Dec.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/public-global-health/501621-researchers-satellite-images-hint-coronavirus-started (https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/public-global-health/501621-researchers-satellite-images-hint-coronavirus-started)

I firmly believe we are on the tail of wave two and wave three in the fall could be bad if we aren't careful. I think wave one was November/December.

General statement, there is nothing magical of wave 2 versus a wave 3 in terms of severity, just depends on how serious we take it and what we learn/prepare between waves

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on June 09, 2020, 08:03:00 AM

More info on the WHO’s release of information. Read all the subsequent tweet.

https://twitter.com/aslavitt/status/1270135499659923458?s=21

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 09, 2020, 08:07:32 AM

Maybe US was right to be skeptical about WHO.  Because it doesn't make sense that it has spread how it has if asymptomatic spread is "rare."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on June 09, 2020, 08:37:51 AM

I am in a state with nearly 60k confirmed cases and 5500 deaths.  There was asymptomatic spread.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 09, 2020, 08:41:52 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 09, 2020, 08:07:32 AM

Maybe US was right to be skeptical about WHO.  Because it doesn't make sense that it has spread how it has if asymptomatic spread is "rare."

Agreed.

Part of the way science works (especially in response to new pathogens) is that different researchers and institutions often have different opinions based upon the data they are seeing and the way they get their message out. WHO seems to have become an outlier in this debate, which is why I said yesterday that we should take pause with the statement WHO put out. CDC and state and local health officials, as well as scientists worldwide, still seem to think that it makes sense to wear masks and use calculated shutdowns to limit spread. For now, I am going to believe the great majority of medical experts.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on June 09, 2020, 08:42:39 AM

Heard on the news that a study suggests the US prevented over 5M cases of covid by quarantining.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on June 09, 2020, 08:44:13 AM

It still comes down to people being smart and staying home when sick and keeping kids home from school when sick.  This falls back on employers that do not want to give sick time to employees

Just following the simple rule of stay home if sick will cut down the spread especially as school starts back up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 09, 2020, 08:51:45 AM

Quote from: wadesworld on June 09, 2020, 08:42:39 AM

Heard on the news that a study suggests the US prevented over 5M cases of covid by quarantining.

You should listen to Rush Limbaugh

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on June 09, 2020, 08:56:03 AM

Quote from: muguru on June 08, 2020, 08:02:47 PM

It's obvious not enough of you were influenced by the great Professor McAdams while you were at Marquette. Had you been, you would be a lot more knowledgeable of what is really happening in this country instead of allowing yourselves to just believe everything the liberal media tells you. It's baffling how many people are really that naive, but here we are..

Did you take his classes?

I took three of them. And one of them was about debunking a conspiracy theory. Something I've used quite a bit lately.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on June 09, 2020, 08:59:46 AM

Guru hot take: "listen to guy who Rants opinions that agree with mine, dropped out of southeastern Missouri state after two semesters and you'll become smart! Screw that stupid guy who is in charge of NIAID and has his medical degree from Cornell, and worked under rational politicians from both parties for years making disease his life's work."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 09, 2020, 09:12:35 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on June 09, 2020, 08:59:46 AM

Guru hot take: "listen to guy who Rants opinions that agree with mine, dropped out of southeastern Missouri state after two semesters and you'll become smart! Screw that stupid guy who is in charge of NIAID and has his medical degree from Cornell, and worked under rational politicians from both parties for years making disease his life's work."

And don’t forget to use lots of question marks and exclamation points.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 09, 2020, 09:23:42 AM

guru doing some classic Leon Letting.

https://youtu.be/NPZ7oEac7Uc (https://youtu.be/NPZ7oEac7Uc)

Might want to get into the end zone before celebrating.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on June 09, 2020, 10:25:12 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 08, 2020, 09:34:15 PM

Forgetful

People want definitive answers and want them immediately - they don’t have a basic understanding of how science works. Thanks to you, Dano and others for keeping us on track.

That is an interesting insight Lenny. It reminds me of a recent article which includes your thought as well as insight into both the anti-science, anti-education, common-sense-is-greater-than-facts unhinged screeds from guru and rocket's constant railing about experts.

https://thebulwark.com/trump-covid-19-and-the-american-idiocracy/

“The war on academia bleeds into a war on the very idea of expertise,” writes Zack Beauchamp in Vox. Scapegoating experts as the enemies of ordinary people has polarized perceptions of learning itself, instilling a belief “that liberal elites are conning you, that they’re less competent than an ordinary person. . . . The very idea of nonpartisan knowledge production is obliterated.”
<snip>
Tom Nichols, the conservative academic who teaches at the U.S. Naval War College, addressed this phenomenon in his 2017 book The Death of Expertise. Too many Americans, Nichols argues, prefer magical thinking to the fruits of education or experience. A primary cause is that the complexity of modern life engenders feelings of helplessness among those who feel threatened by increasingly unfathomable forces—and the sophisticated experts who propound them.”
<snip>
”This devolution is particularly acute in shaping our views about politics, decoupling our biases and delusions from the need for objective verification. In this swampland of subjectivity, beliefs justify themselves simply by existing, creating a thickening fog of incomprehension wherein expertise competes with bunk. The result is a pernicious intellectual populism in which anyone’s opinion, no matter how groundless, is equal to those rooted in assiduous research and analyses. All one needs to validate an assertion is to express it.

Little wonder that an increasing number of Republicans—59 percent, per a 2019 Pew Research survey—believe that colleges and universities have a negative effect on American life. This attitude, in turn, accelerates a craving for simple answers, and a resentment of those who refute them. Writes Nichols: “When people are told that ending poverty or preventing terrorism or stimulating economic growth is a lot harder than it looks, they roll their eyes. Unable to comprehend all the complexity around them, they choose instead to comprehend almost none of it and then sullenly blame elites for seizing control of their lives.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 09, 2020, 10:40:28 AM

Well, that was quick. The WHO expert is already walking back her comments on asymptomatic transmission of COVID-19 being rare ...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/09/world/coronavirus-updates.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20200609&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=30445&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

A top expert at the World Health Organization on Tuesday walked back her earlier assertion that transmission of the coronavirus by people who do not have symptoms is “very rare.” 
Dr. Maria Van Kerkhove, who made the original comment at a W.H.O. briefing on Monday, said that it was based on just two or three studies and that it was a “misunderstanding” to say asymptomatic transmission is rare globally.

“I was just responding to a question, I wasn’t stating a policy of W.H.O. or anything like that,” she said.

Dr. Van Kerkhove said that the estimates of transmission from people without symptoms come primarily from models, which may not provide an accurate representation. “That’s a big open question, and that remains an open question,” she said.

I wish guru Lett's reason for spiking the football short of the goal line had been based on scientifically vetted facts, because then it would have been something to celebrate. But unfortunately it's not.

There are still a lot of things we don't know about COVID-19. And by we, I mean scientists, politicians, the general public, and even an extremely stable genius like guru.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 09, 2020, 10:44:28 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on June 09, 2020, 10:25:12 AM

That is an interesting insight Lenny. It reminds me of a recent article which includes your thought as well as insight into both the anti-science, anti-education, common-sense-is-greater-than-facts unhinged screeds from guru and rocket's constant railing about experts.

https://thebulwark.com/trump-covid-19-and-the-american-idiocracy/

“The war on academia bleeds into a war on the very idea of expertise,” writes Zack Beauchamp in Vox. Scapegoating experts as the enemies of ordinary people has polarized perceptions of learning itself, instilling a belief “that liberal elites are conning you, that they’re less competent than an ordinary person. . . . The very idea of nonpartisan knowledge production is obliterated.”
<snip>
Tom Nichols, the conservative academic who teaches at the U.S. Naval War College, addressed this phenomenon in his 2017 book The Death of Expertise. Too many Americans, Nichols argues, prefer magical thinking to the fruits of education or experience. A primary cause is that the complexity of modern life engenders feelings of helplessness among those who feel threatened by increasingly unfathomable forces—and the sophisticated experts who propound them.”
<snip>
”This devolution is particularly acute in shaping our views about politics, decoupling our biases and delusions from the need for objective verification. In this swampland of subjectivity, beliefs justify themselves simply by existing, creating a thickening fog of incomprehension wherein expertise competes with bunk. The result is a pernicious intellectual populism in which anyone’s opinion, no matter how groundless, is equal to those rooted in assiduous research and analyses. All one needs to validate an assertion is to express it.

Little wonder that an increasing number of Republicans—59 percent, per a 2019 Pew Research survey—believe that colleges and universities have a negative effect on American life. This attitude, in turn, accelerates a craving for simple answers, and a resentment of those who refute them. Writes Nichols: “When people are told that ending poverty or preventing terrorism or stimulating economic growth is a lot harder than it looks, they roll their eyes. Unable to comprehend all the complexity around them, they choose instead to comprehend almost none of it and then sullenly blame elites for seizing control of their lives.”

I agree with this completely. 

Compare and contrast with a country like Germany, whose citizens by and large trust the government and trust scientists.

They shut down, relatively few people died, are slowly opening back up and will likely have a quicker recovery. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 09, 2020, 10:45:14 AM

Quote from: MU82 on June 09, 2020, 10:40:28 AM

Well, that was quick. The WHO expert is already walking back her comments on asymptomatic transmission of COVID-19 being rare ...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/09/world/coronavirus-updates.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20200609&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=30445&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

A top expert at the World Health Organization on Tuesday walked back her earlier assertion that transmission of the coronavirus by people who do not have symptoms is “very rare.” 
Dr. Maria Van Kerkhove, who made the original comment at a W.H.O. briefing on Monday, said that it was based on just two or three studies and that it was a “misunderstanding” to say asymptomatic transmission is rare globally.

“I was just responding to a question, I wasn’t stating a policy of W.H.O. or anything like that,” she said.

Dr. Van Kerkhove said that the estimates of transmission from people without symptoms come primarily from models, which may not provide an accurate representation. “That’s a big open question, and that remains an open question,” she said.

I wish guru Lett's reason for spiking the football short of the goal line had been based on scientifically vetted facts, because then it would have been something to celebrate. But unfortunately it's not.

There are still a lot of things we don't know about COVID-19. And by we, I mean scientists, politicians, the general public, and even an extremely stable genius like guru.

My guess is we won't see guru around for awhile.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 09, 2020, 10:55:46 AM

https://twitter.com/ASlavitt/status/1270348830958063618?s=19

https://www.wtsp.com/mobile/article/news/health/coronavirus/asymptomatic-spread-of-coronavirus-is-rare-who-official-says/507-f42b12e2-4da5-4c49-85de-06e1f81e399d

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on June 09, 2020, 10:59:38 AM

Given how awful the WHO has been during this entire adventure, I’m not sure anything they said should be taken as gospel. Them walking back that report is perfectly in line with half a dozen other things they changed their mind on or walked back over the last 3 months

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on June 09, 2020, 11:13:08 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on June 09, 2020, 10:59:38 AM

Given how awful the WHO has been during this entire adventure, I’m not sure anything they said should be taken as gospel. Them walking back that report is perfectly in line with half a dozen other things they changed their mind on or walked back over the last 3 months

It is funny to watch those who were trashing the WHO and telling us not to believe anything the said for the last few months now jumping head first and 100% believing their latest statement

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on June 09, 2020, 11:27:15 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on June 09, 2020, 11:13:08 AM

It is funny to watch those who were trashing the WHO and telling us not to believe anything the said for the last few months now jumping head first and 100% believing their latest statement

Spoken like someone who never took a class from the great John McAdams or read the gospel according to rush limbaugh

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on June 09, 2020, 11:42:47 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on June 09, 2020, 11:13:08 AM

It is funny to watch those who were trashing the WHO and telling us not to believe anything the said for the last few months now jumping head first and 100% believing their latest statement

That the WHO is walking back.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on June 09, 2020, 12:11:30 PM

Quote from: tower912 on June 09, 2020, 11:42:47 AM

That the WHO is walking back.

Saw that. But still funny.

I'm guessing that same group will now take the stance that WHO was totally wrong in the beginning, then yesterday finally came clean and today is reversing their claim from yesterday due to lib political pressure.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on June 09, 2020, 12:12:00 PM

https://www.france24.com/en/20200609-covid-19-lockdowns-saved-millions-of-lives-and-easing-curbs-risky-studies-find

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on June 09, 2020, 12:57:21 PM

NJ lifted their Stay At Home Order and allow up to 50 people at indoor gatherings. So Rutgers basketball home schedule should be good to go

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 09, 2020, 12:58:36 PM

Quote from: tower912 on June 09, 2020, 11:42:47 AM

That the WHO is walking back.

Side question, what party (can't say who without confusion) is most responsible for this latest round of misinformation associated with the WHO....is it the WHO/scientist who made the statement or the journalists that theoretically mis-reported it and/or over amplified it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 09, 2020, 01:01:42 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 09, 2020, 12:58:36 PM

Side question, what party (can't say who without confusion) is most responsible for this latest round of misinformation associated with the WHO....is it the WHO/scientist who made the statement or the journalists that theoretically mis-reported it and/or over amplified it.

Saying something was "taken out of context," "misreported" or "misunderstood" is a time-tested way for a public official to deflect blame from himself or herself.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 09, 2020, 01:08:57 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on June 09, 2020, 10:25:12 AM

Tom Nichols, the conservative academic who teaches at the U.S. Naval War College, addressed this phenomenon in his 2017 book The Death of Expertise. Too many Americans, Nichols argues, prefer magical thinking to the fruits of education or experience. A primary cause is that the complexity of modern life engenders feelings of helplessness among those who feel threatened by increasingly unfathomable forces—and the sophisticated experts who propound them.”

Yep. Complexity and scientific ambiguity is always challenging, but in our ever more impatient "sound bite" culture, it snowballs to the point that some just want an "easy answer." And simple one-syllable words like "hoax" often give people the answer they're looking for.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on June 09, 2020, 01:11:02 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on June 09, 2020, 12:57:21 PM

NJ lifted their Stay At Home Order and allow up to 50 people at indoor gatherings. So Rutgers basketball home schedule should be good to go

Nice

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on June 09, 2020, 01:26:10 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on June 09, 2020, 12:11:30 PM

Saw that. But still funny.

I'm guessing that same group will now take the stance that WHO was totally wrong in the beginning, then yesterday finally came clean and today is reversing their claim from yesterday due to lib political pressure.

Here, let me give you this handy dandy guide they use when it comes to WHO and China:

Fake News, lying:
1. Anything that makes China's response look good.
2. Anything that makes the US's response look bad.

100% accurate, no need to fact check or put in context:
1. Anything that supports immediate reopening of everything
2. Anything that makes the federal US response look better

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on June 09, 2020, 01:28:50 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on June 09, 2020, 12:57:21 PM

NJ lifted their Stay At Home Order and allow up to 50 people at indoor gatherings. So Rutgers basketball home schedule should be good to go

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/296/357/663.gif)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 09, 2020, 01:35:16 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 09, 2020, 01:08:57 PM

Yep. Complexity and scientific ambiguity is always challenging, but in our ever more impatient "sound bite" culture, it snowballs to the point that some just want an "easy answer." And simple one-syllable words like "hoax" often give people the answer they're looking for.

Ignorance is bliss

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 09, 2020, 01:44:19 PM

Quote from: MU82 on June 09, 2020, 01:01:42 PM

Saying something was "taken out of context," "misreported" or "misunderstood" is a time-tested way for a public official to deflect blame from himself or herself.

Agreed, I just mean if we were figuring out how to prevent this type of stupidity in the future, who is to blame for the stupidity in the first place?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 09, 2020, 01:46:15 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 09, 2020, 01:08:57 PM

Yep. Complexity and scientific ambiguity is always challenging, but in our ever more impatient "sound bite" culture, it snowballs to the point that some just want an "easy answer." And simple one-syllable words like "hoax" often give people the answer they're looking for.

It's a weapon for both sides these days.....science is real and meaningful when it supports your argument and fluid/unsettled when it isn't. It's not about complexity, it's about tribalism and the need to win

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 09, 2020, 01:49:04 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 09, 2020, 01:46:15 PM

It's a weapon for both sides these days.....science is real and meaningful when it supports your argument and fluid/unsettled when it isn't. It's not about complexity, it's about tribalism and the need to win

Not really.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 09, 2020, 01:54:03 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 09, 2020, 12:58:36 PM

Side question, what party (can't say who without confusion) is most responsible for this latest round of misinformation associated with the WHO....is it the WHO/scientist who made the statement or the journalists that theoretically mis-reported it and/or over amplified it.

I just watched the press briefing where she made the statement. It's complicated.

The question came from a Reuters reporter, and begins at about the 32-minute mark of the June 8 briefing. Instead of trying to paraphrase or quote it, I will post the link here and let those who are interested listen to that Q and A. https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/media-resources/press-briefings

My opinion is that many are overemphasizing the notion of "fault" because the issue is evolving and complicated. IMHO, the WHO representative did a good job of accurately answering the question. She bagan by noting that many people reported as "asymptomatic" were really "presymptomatic" or had mild disease. She then went on to say that WHO has "a number of detailed reports" that show that truly asymptomatic transmission is "very rare." She then said that WHO is trying to get more information because we need to learn more to be sure.

The way I would have reported her comments would have been to say that current data tends to indicate that transmission by people who are truly asymptomatic seems to be rare...but that we need to be careful in applying this because (1) the data is evolving and incomplete, and (2) many of the people who we are calling asymptomatic really are presymptomatic or have mild disease (and do spread the virus).

So are the reporters "at fault"? I would say yes and no. She did use the words "very rare" when referring to asymptomatic spread so I think it was fair to use them in reports...but I think reporters should have done a better job of trying to explain the caveats. That said, TSmith's post showed the limits of publishing explanations that are "too complicated" - people tend to gloss over the complexities and just want to know "the answer."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 09, 2020, 01:59:02 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 09, 2020, 01:46:15 PM

It's a weapon for both sides these days.....science is real and meaningful when it supports your argument and fluid/unsettled when it isn't. It's not about complexity, it's about tribalism and the need to win

That might be how it is works out in the larger culture. But in my little corner of the world, science is real and meaningful and fluid and unsettled all at the same time. So I follow what the weight of scientific authority says whether I like or not...with the understanding that it could very well change at any time. And that's just fine with me.

Many people don't like that level of uncertainty, so they call it a "hoax."

 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 09, 2020, 02:03:15 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 09, 2020, 01:59:02 PM

That might be how it is works out in the larger culture. But in my little corner of the world, science is real and meaningful and fluid and unsettled all at the same time. So I follow what the weight of scientific authority says whether I like or not...with the understanding that it could very well change at any time. And that's just fine with me.

Many people don't like that level of uncertainty, so they call it a "hoax."

I think this is the case with all rational, educated people.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on June 09, 2020, 03:33:12 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 09, 2020, 01:46:15 PM

It's a weapon for both sides these days.....science is real and meaningful when it supports your argument and fluid/unsettled when it isn't. It's not about complexity, it's about tribalism and the need to win

False equivalence

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 09, 2020, 04:29:47 PM

Quote from: Jockey on June 09, 2020, 02:03:15 PM

I think this is the case with all rational, educated people.

Tend to agree, but even within this board that statement doesn't apply. This board has privilege that it is made up of relatively educated individuals that are relatively homogeneous in background and experience. Applying our internal expectations to the broader population is a fool's errand

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 09, 2020, 04:30:31 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on June 09, 2020, 03:33:12 PM

False equivalence

Please expand your hypothesis

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on June 09, 2020, 05:46:34 PM

And now in Texas ...

Texas has reported two consecutive days of record-breaking Covid-19 hospitalizations as the state continues to open businesses and resume activities that were temporarily shuttered due to the coronavirus.
There are currently 2,056 patients sickened with Covid-19 in hospitals across the state as of early Tuesday afternoon, up from a record 1,935 patients Monday, according to updated data from the Texas Department of State Health Services.


https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/09/texas-reports-two-consecutive-days-of-record-coronavirus-hospitalizations-weeks-after-reopening.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 09, 2020, 06:33:49 PM

The current 14 states with their highest 7 day COVID-19 case average:

https://twitter.com/dabeard/status/1270157207531896833

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 09, 2020, 07:02:39 PM

Wonder where guru is now that the WHO clarified its statment yesterday.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DY0FxwVU8AAEmlG?format=jpg&name=900x900)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 09, 2020, 07:21:10 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 09, 2020, 07:02:39 PM

Wonder where guru is now that the WHO clarified its statment yesterday.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DY0FxwVU8AAEmlG?format=jpg&name=900x900)

Looking for some scientist shaped clouds to shake his fist at probably

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 09, 2020, 07:22:46 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on June 09, 2020, 06:33:49 PM

The current 14 states with their highest 7 day COVID-19 case average:

https://twitter.com/dabeard/status/1270157207531896833

The fact that California is on that list should make people re-evaluate the lockdowns. They locked down early and had some of the most draconian measures and they are just now having their highest infection rate?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on June 09, 2020, 08:30:59 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 09, 2020, 07:02:39 PM

Wonder where guru is now that the WHO clarified its statment yesterday.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DY0FxwVU8AAEmlG?format=jpg&name=900x900)

Rereading the notes from McAdams’ class that he couldn’t take.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 09, 2020, 10:20:54 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 09, 2020, 07:22:46 PM

The fact that California is on that list should make people re-evaluate the lockdowns. They locked down early and had some of the most draconian measures and they are just now having their highest infection rate?

No easy answer.

Their prisons are among the worst in the nation for Covid. Huge increases in infections. Orange County is seeing big rises - it has been the site of numerous acts of resistance against statewide stay-at-home orders. Early heat waves drove thousands to congregate at beaches. There is also the problem of the density of the population.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 10, 2020, 10:47:44 AM

Record hospitalizations in Texas:

https://twitter.com/JeremySWallace/status/1270728443282497536?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on June 10, 2020, 10:59:08 AM

If you read the responses on the Twitter thread, one of them claims that the Texas AG told counties not to count prison cases in their totals.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 10, 2020, 11:44:34 AM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on June 10, 2020, 10:59:08 AM

If you read the responses on the Twitter thread, one of them claims that the Texas AG told counties not to count prison cases in their totals.

This response was priceless.

"What if the President is right and Antifa is breeding 75-year-old super soldiers who fall over on command?"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 10, 2020, 12:14:30 PM

This sounds like good news for mask wearing.

---

https://www.springfieldmo.gov/CivicAlerts.aspx?AID=6939

June 8, 2020
Incubation period closes: no clients contract COVID-19 from salon exposure

The Springfield-Greene County Health Department is encouraged to report that the incubation period has passed from those potentially exposed from Great Clips. No clients of either stylist nor additional coworkers contracted COVID-19 as a result.

“This is exciting news about the value of masking to prevent COVID-19,” said Director of Health Clay Goddard. “We are studying more closely the details of these exposures, including what types of face coverings were worn and what other precautions were taken to lead to this encouraging result. We never want an exposure like this to happen, but this situation will greatly expand our understanding of how this novel coronavirus spreads.”

In addition to masking, Great Clips had policies in place that also likely prevented the spread of disease—such as distancing of salon chairs, staggering appointments and other measures that will also be studied, Goddard noted.

Two stylists had tested positive after working at the Great Clips at 1864 S. Glenstone Ave, potentially exposing 140 clients and six other coworkers. No additional clients or coworkers tested positive.

Testing was offered to all those potentially exposed, and 46 people pursued testing—all came back negative. Regardless of testing, all potentially exposed were quarantined for the duration of their exposure period.

For more information about COVID-19, visit our website at health.springfieldmo.gov/coronavirus, email coronavirus@springfieldmo.gov, or call 417-874-1211.

##

For media requests, contact Kathryn Wall by phone at 417-874-1205 or email at kwall@springfieldmo.gov

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 10, 2020, 12:46:53 PM

That’s an amazing datapoint.  Probably would be a good study for someone in the medical field.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on June 10, 2020, 12:55:02 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 29, 2020, 05:14:50 PM

Community spread was likely happening in the US in late January.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6922e1.htm?s_cid=mm6922e1_w (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6922e1.htm?s_cid=mm6922e1_w)

Anecdotally, 2 stories.  1) i was completely laid out for 2 days at the end of January.   Slept for almost 48 hours straight, only other symptom was the worst joint pain I've ever experienced. Wife frequently travels through Detroit, was in Westchester county, NY 2 weeks prior, and we were in Vegas 10 days earlier.   Im scheduled for an antibody screen in two weeks, will be fascinated to see what my results are.

2)  a family from the kids' school had a family member in from Seattle over Christmas and for a few weeks in January. He was sick the whole time he was in Madison.  Soon after, that family got sick, illness spread through the school, and at the same time, the youth hockey program.

Back to news:  Bloomberg had an article about superspreaders today, and how that can explain the spikes in South Korea amd other places.  Its an opinion piece written by a non-medical person, so take it FWIW.

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/opinion/articles/2020-05-28/superspreader-events-might-actually-help-control-covid-19?__twitter_impression=true (https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/opinion/articles/2020-05-28/superspreader-events-might-actually-help-control-covid-19?__twitter_impression=true)

Just got my antibody test back.  Negative.

Disappointed, actually.  Wanted to help researchers and give plasma.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 10, 2020, 01:16:39 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on June 10, 2020, 12:55:02 PM

Just got my antibody test back.  Negative.

Disappointed, actually.  Wanted to help researchers and give plasma.

Was it free or low cost?  Where'd you go?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on June 10, 2020, 03:10:33 PM

Boy, they sure are taking the hoax to extremes in Brazil, eh guru?

Brazil Is in Coronavirus Free Fall
Hospitals are on the brink of collapse, cemeteries are burying people in mass graves, and still, we refuse to take this virus seriously.

"Given the grimness of our statistics, one might reasonably expect that the population would start strictly adhering to health and safety protocols. But this is not happening. As the cases spread, so does the contempt of certain people in the streets for social-distancing measures. And it’s easy to pinpoint one of the main reasons for this contempt: our president.

Since the beginning of the pandemic, Jair Bolsonaro has shown disdain for everything that doesn’t suit his personal agenda — especially if it’s fact-based news or scientific recommendations. He said in the past that Covid-19 is a “measly cold” and that people would soon see that they’d been “tricked” by governors and media when it came to the outbreak. On April 12, when more than a thousand Brazilians had already died, he proclaimed that “the matter of the virus” was “starting to go away.” When this proved to be wrong, he spent his days fighting against state and municipal shutdowns, deeming them economically disastrous for the country.

He fired our health minister, Luiz Henrique Mandetta, for supporting the isolation measures while resisting Mr. Bolsonaro’s attempts to promote chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine as treatments for Covid-19. Along the way, the president has continued to attend pro-government street rallies, shaking the hands of his supporters and drawing large crowds just to appease his ego."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/08/opinion/brazil-coronavirus-bolsonaro.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 10, 2020, 03:49:37 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on June 10, 2020, 12:55:02 PM

Just got my antibody test back.  Negative.

Disappointed, actually.  Wanted to help researchers and give plasma.

DO you know what testing you had? My current understanding is that a positive results means you had it but a negative result means you probably didn't have it but not for sure.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 10, 2020, 03:53:22 PM

From the BBC on the U.K. situation:

Coronavirus: 'Earlier lockdown would have halved death toll'

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52995064

Prof Ferguson, from Imperial College London, told a committee of MPs: "Had we introduced lockdown measures a week earlier, we would have reduced the final death toll by at least a half.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 10, 2020, 03:59:49 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 10, 2020, 03:49:37 PM

DO you know what testing you had? My current understanding is that a positive results means you had it but a negative result means you probably didn't have it but not for sure.

A positive result is more likely to be accurate than a negative one, but it is not certain. This article from the Wall Street Journal provides helpful information about false positives and negatives.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/tested-positive-for-coronavirus-antibodies-dont-let-your-guard-down-11591794007

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 10, 2020, 04:04:10 PM

And now we are full circle on the asymptomatic merry go round.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/10/dr-anthony-fauci-says-whos-remark-on-asymptomatic-coronavirus-spread-was-not-correct.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/10/dr-anthony-fauci-says-whos-remark-on-asymptomatic-coronavirus-spread-was-not-correct.html)

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/10/who-says-we-can-always-do-better-following-confusing-comments-on-asymptomatic-transmission.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/10/who-says-we-can-always-do-better-following-confusing-comments-on-asymptomatic-transmission.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 10, 2020, 04:06:23 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 10, 2020, 04:04:10 PM

And now we are full circle on the asymptomatic merry go round.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/10/dr-anthony-fauci-says-whos-remark-on-asymptomatic-coronavirus-spread-was-not-correct.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/10/dr-anthony-fauci-says-whos-remark-on-asymptomatic-coronavirus-spread-was-not-correct.html)

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/10/who-says-we-can-always-do-better-following-confusing-comments-on-asymptomatic-transmission.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/10/who-says-we-can-always-do-better-following-confusing-comments-on-asymptomatic-transmission.html)

Yep. It has long been clear that asymptomatic spread is common with this virus. Even a close listening to the WHO press briefing the other day would have made this fairly clear. It is unfortunate that many chose to emphasize the “very rare“ comment without putting it in its full context.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 10, 2020, 04:19:07 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 10, 2020, 03:53:22 PM

From the BBC on the U.K. situation:

Coronavirus: 'Earlier lockdown would have halved death toll'

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52995064

Prof Ferguson, from Imperial College London, told a committee of MPs: "Had we introduced lockdown measures a week earlier, we would have reduced the final death toll by at least a half.

1. After the Imperial College's model that originated the lockdown was found to be painfully wrong I'm not sure how much I trust a model out of them.
2. Locking down sooner obviously would have saved lives, this feels like mental masturbation for those that want to throw darts at leadership for not coming to terms with the unbelievable a week sooner than we did.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 10, 2020, 04:22:17 PM

Realistically we weren't going to shut down earlier than we did.  And I'm not blaming the President for that.  Until New York started to spiral and the NBA postponed, we were not in that mindset as a nation.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 10, 2020, 04:25:19 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 10, 2020, 04:19:07 PM

1. After the Imperial College's model that originated the lockdown was found to be painfully wrong I'm not sure how much I trust a model out of them.
2. Locking down sooner obviously would have saved lives, this feels like mental masturbation for those that want to throw darts at leadership for not coming to terms with the unbelievable a week sooner than we did.

I have no interest in going back and playing “what if” regarding the first wave. However, differing viewpoints, theories and studies of the first wave are useful in preparing for a second wave...or the next pandemic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 10, 2020, 04:27:49 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 10, 2020, 04:22:17 PM

Realistically we weren't going to shut down earlier than we did.  And I'm not blaming the President for that.  Until New York started to spiral and the NBA postponed, we were not in that mindset as a nation.

Agreed. My main purpose was not to point fingers at Boris Johnson (or President Trump or the various governors) regarding the first wave. It was to provide more discussion about the usefulness of shutting down in preparation for a possible second wave, or the next big pandemic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on June 10, 2020, 05:19:57 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 10, 2020, 04:19:07 PM

1. After the Imperial College's model that originated the lockdown was found to be painfully wrong I'm not sure how much I trust a model out of them.
2. Locking down sooner obviously would have saved lives, this feels like mental masturbation for those that want to throw darts at leadership for not coming to terms with the unbelievable a week sooner than we did.

Playing a bit of devils advocate here. But the Imperial College's model was based on nations having zero lockdowns or social distancing. Since everyone had lockdowns/social distancing to some extent, I'm not sure how you can say it was "painfully wrong". Most studies thereafter came to similar conclusions for no lockdown/no social distancing.

Now, their models may have been coded poorly, or had other issues, but one can't say their conclusions were "painfully wrong" since there is no contradicting evidence (e.g. everyone locked down or had some sort of social distancing).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on June 10, 2020, 06:39:53 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 10, 2020, 03:49:37 PM

DO you know what testing you had? My current understanding is that a positive results means you had it but a negative result means you probably didn't have it but not for sure.

Here let this guy explain ZFB's test results.

"I tested very positively in another sense, I tested positively toward negative, right? So no, I tested perfectly this morning. Meaning I tested negative. But that's a way of saying it. Positively toward the negative."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on June 10, 2020, 06:50:07 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 10, 2020, 04:22:17 PM

Realistically we weren't going to shut down earlier than we did.  And I'm not blaming the President for that.  Until New York started to spiral and the NBA postponed, we were not in that mindset as a nation.

Agree with this. The week of March 9th went from cautious concern nationally to extreme measures time.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 10, 2020, 11:21:56 PM

A Harvard health expert predicts an additional 100,000 US coronavirus deaths by September

https://www.businessinsider.com/harvard-expert-predicts-coronavirus-deaths-in-us-by-september-2020-6

We have a long long way to go, and it’s beginning to seem the public is becoming numbed by the staggering numbers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 10, 2020, 11:38:20 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 10, 2020, 11:21:56 PM

A Harvard health expert predicts an additional 100,000 US coronavirus deaths by September

https://www.businessinsider.com/harvard-expert-predicts-coronavirus-deaths-in-us-by-september-2020-6

We have a long long way to go, and it’s beginning to seem the public is becoming numbed by the staggering numbers.

Can only pray that they are wrong.

But, Bunker Boy has washed his hands of this. Covid no longer exists.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on June 10, 2020, 11:46:42 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on June 10, 2020, 06:50:07 PM

Agree with this. The week of March 9th went from cautious concern nationally to extreme measures time.

I flew into NYC on the 11th. The only thing different was I clorox-wiped my seat to appease my GF, who is a bit of germaphobe to begin with. I planned on going to a BET game or two, taking meetings, and heading back as planned on the 16th. My only concern regarding the virus was how much hand sanitizer id be expected to use when returning from meetings or the gym, and rolling my eyes at my GF using a glove for some door handles. The idea of March Madness being cancelled seemed like overreaction hysteria.

Within 10 days it went from “I’ll head back unless Wisconsin also decides to close” to “I’m here working remotely until the Midwest turns the corner”.  It was surreal how fast things moved.

Which is why I’m a bit skeptical to the whole view of a catastrophic second wave. Even without a second lockdown, there is such a complete different level of perspective, preparedness, and knowledge about it, from hygiene to masks to social distancing to simply just not being gross and unsanitary like should have been the case to avoid cold and flu anyways.

All of that being considered and the most vulnerable age demos still exercising caution, saying we’ll have another 100K during summer months seems like alarmist nonsense.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on June 11, 2020, 12:16:52 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on June 10, 2020, 11:46:42 PM

saying we’ll have another 100K during summer months seems like alarmist nonsense.

Even with lots of folks being careful, in the past 10 days or so we're averaging around 800-900 deaths per day.  No unreasonable that that keeps up for another 90 days...

(please check my numbers.  I see US deaths @ ~103k on May 31, and at ~112k on Jun 10.  10 day average ~900)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 11, 2020, 06:17:14 AM

To CTs point yesterday this is great news.  However if I’m a Missouri resident I may be looking to allocate more money to contact tracing if this alone ‘pushed them to the brink’

 The salon kept impeccable records that made contact tracing possible, Goddard said. But he cautioned about the risks of overwhelming resources in such incidents.

"We can't have many more of these," he said last month. "We can't make this a regular habit or our capabilities as a community will be strained."

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/11/us/missouri-hairstylists-coronavirus-clients-trnd/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/11/us/missouri-hairstylists-coronavirus-clients-trnd/index.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on June 11, 2020, 07:35:53 AM

I agree the country wouldn't have locked-down any earlier than it did.

But .. imagine if we all had put on masks indoors ~3 weeks earlier.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 11, 2020, 08:18:10 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on June 11, 2020, 07:35:53 AM

But .. imagine if we all had put on masks indoors ~3 weeks earlier.

Based on Asia results with the virus, the MO hair salon, more research.  I just don't know why this is still a debate/controversial.  I'd rather wear a mask and have a semblance of normal movement then the alternative (uncontrolled spread). 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-masks-study/widespread-mask-wearing-could-prevent-covid-19-second-waves-study-idUSKBN23G37V (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-masks-study/widespread-mask-wearing-could-prevent-covid-19-second-waves-study-idUSKBN23G37V)

Also here is a point from Scott Gottlieb that I thought was important.  Case increases are not necessarily cause for alarm due to increased testing -- as long as we are TRACING and ISOLATING those cases/contacts.  Just goes back to the point to remember why we count (to take action/deploy resources/etc).

https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1270850635152400384 (https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1270850635152400384)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 11, 2020, 08:20:12 AM

The blame game is going back and forth about why the RNC is moving from Charlotte to Jacksonville, with Trump blaming NC's Democratic governor Roy Cooper for refusing to re-open more of the state faster ... while Cooper says it is just common sense and heeding science to refuse to guarantee that 19,000 people will be able to jam into the Spectrum Center without masks and social distancing, which is what Trump is demanding.

Meanwhile, Trump's own Coronavirus Task Force leader, Deborah Birx, says she is "very concerned" that the COVID-19 hospitalization and death rates in NC's largest counties are going up in the period 2-3 weeks after most of the state's economy re-opened.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 11, 2020, 08:36:05 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on June 11, 2020, 12:16:52 AM

Even with lots of folks being careful, in the past 10 days or so we're averaging around 800-900 deaths per day.  No unreasonable that that keeps up for another 90 days...

(please check my numbers.  I see US deaths @ ~103k on May 31, and at ~112k on Jun 10.  10 day average ~900)

Unfortunately, society is numb to those numbers.  We don't consider them people anymore... just another statistic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muwarrior69 on June 11, 2020, 08:50:12 AM

Will they require grade school kids to ware masks when/if they return to school? Will the school system supply those masks? What if a 5, 6, or 7 year old takes it off because they don't like waring it. Will they be disciplined or sent home? How will they social distance in a classroom. Will they be able to take their mask off at lunch time or recess and if so how will that prevent the spread? Will music departments be cut as singing spreads the virus.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 11, 2020, 08:58:12 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 11, 2020, 08:18:10 AM

Based on Asia results with the virus, the MO hair salon, more research.  I just don't know why this is still a debate/controversial.  I'd rather wear a mask and have a semblance of normal movement then the alternative (uncontrolled spread). 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-masks-study/widespread-mask-wearing-could-prevent-covid-19-second-waves-study-idUSKBN23G37V (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-masks-study/widespread-mask-wearing-could-prevent-covid-19-second-waves-study-idUSKBN23G37V)

Also here is a point from Scott Gottlieb that I thought was important.  Case increases are not necessarily cause for alarm due to increased testing -- as long as we are TRACING and ISOLATING those cases/contacts.  Just goes back to the point to remember why we count (to take action/deploy resources/etc).

https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1270850635152400384 (https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1270850635152400384)

Totally agree on masks. There is literally no downside to wearing one, and the complaints about “difficulty breathing“ only indicate that people must not be wearing them correctly. It reminds me of the seatbelt excuses (to “inconvenient“ or “uncomfortable“) back in the day.

And to me, the lack of contact tracing is the main reason why the prediction of another 100,000 deaths by early fall is very realistic. We seem to have become numb to the death tolls, and still are not putting nearly enough resources into contact tracing. Instead, we are just re-opening things and putting a token effort into contact tracing, and letting the numbers fall where they may.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 11, 2020, 08:59:24 AM

Quote from: muwarrior69 on June 11, 2020, 08:50:12 AM

Will they require grade school kids to ware masks when/if they return to school? Will the school system supply those masks? What if a 5, 6, or 7 year old takes it off because they don't like waring it. Will they be disciplined or sent home? How will they social distance in a classroom. Will they be able to take their mask off at lunch time or recess and if so how will that prevent the spread? Will music departments be cut as singing spreads the virus.

I’m going to ask 1000 questions to make something seem impossible or insurmountable. 

The answer is we have to create a system reduce risk. We need to empower people to make smart choices and we are going to have to learn as we go and it won’t be foolproof or perfect.

As to funding.  That is a reality.  PPE will likely need to be provided at the expense of the taxpayer.   

I’m sure since you have thought this out, your local school board would love the benefit of your expertise if you are willing to find solutions. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on June 11, 2020, 09:03:31 AM

“We need to open up this country! The economy is getting killed.”

2 seconds later.

“But I don’t want to do the things that will make opening the country a possibility!”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 11, 2020, 09:04:09 AM

Wearing a mask to some is a sign of looking weak, soft, etc...It doesn't help that the President and others are leading the way on this.

 For others, it is simply selfish, that nothing has happened to them or their loved ones (yet) so they aren't going to do it. Not taking it seriously. This also was repeatedly advanced by the President, Fox News etc..

Wearing a mask of course is a small ask as a safety courtesy to others around you, both strangers, and friends and loved ones.

Enough data is out there that suggests it helps, possibly a lot, and worst case, it isn't going to hurt.

Finally, wearing a mask is a daily visual reminder of the ongoing severity of the virus, something a certain group or people doesn't want to see for the next 6 months.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 11, 2020, 09:04:40 AM

Quote from: muwarrior69 on June 11, 2020, 08:50:12 AM

Will they require grade school kids to ware masks when/if they return to school? Will the school system supply those masks? What if a 5, 6, or 7 year old takes it off because they don't like waring it. Will they be disciplined or sent home? How will they social distance in a classroom. Will they be able to take their mask off at lunch time or recess and if so how will that prevent the spread? Will music departments be cut as singing spreads the virus.

Probably.  Yes, or bring your own.  They'll be sent home, probably.  Classrooms will probably spaced accordingly, and there probably will be zero open classrooms.  Yes of course, this is how restaurants work.  Recess will probably be cancelled... along with music and PE... or it will take place outside when it is decent out.  PE can easily become a study/homework period.  There will likely be temp checks and hand sanitizer everywhere.

All of this assumes that school even starts back up in the fall.  Also, I'm just talking out of my ass, but you're acting like problems aren't solvable so we should just 'get back to normal'.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 11, 2020, 09:04:54 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 11, 2020, 08:36:05 AM

Unfortunately, society is numb to those numbers.  We don't consider them people anymore... just another statistic.

But it is a statistic. The thing I have trouble tracking in my brain is that on average 2.73 Million people die in the US every year. So let's extrapolate and say this year, 300,000 people die of Covid this year......how many of those are net new deaths that wouldn't have happened anyway.

I'm not trying to be a ghoul here or discount the seriousness of Covid, but bring a balance between the continued panic over the deaths and the cavalier attitude that you point out.

We should be wearing masks, we should be distancing, we should be tracking where possible.....but isn't this death outcome kind of sort of baked in, especially if we're going support the protests? I'm not saying I'm numb to but this seems to be where we're at and I'm not sure what we want done about it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on June 11, 2020, 09:05:18 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on June 11, 2020, 09:04:09 AM

Wearing a mask to some is a sign of looking weak, soft, etc...It doesn't help that the President and others are leading the way on this.

 For others, it is simply selfish, that nothing has happened to them or their loved ones (yet) so they aren't going to do it. Not taking it seriously. This also was repeatedly advanced by the President, Fox News etc..

Wearing a mask of course is a small ask as a safety courtesy to others around you, both strangers, and friends and loved ones.

Enough data is out there that suggests it helps, possibly a lot, and worst case, it isn't going to hurt.

Finally, wearing a mask is a daily visual reminder of the ongoing severity of the virus, something a certain group or people doesn't want to see for the next 6 months.

Making America Great Again.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 11, 2020, 09:06:05 AM

Quote from: muwarrior69 on June 11, 2020, 08:50:12 AM

Will they require grade school kids to ware masks when/if they return to school? Will the school system supply those masks? What if a 5, 6, or 7 year old takes it off because they don't like waring it. Will they be disciplined or sent home? How will they social distance in a classroom. Will they be able to take their mask off at lunch time or recess and if so how will that prevent the spread? Will music departments be cut as singing spreads the virus.

*wear
*wearing

Anyway, these are questions that school officials across the country are dealing with.  No easy answers so I am sure mistakes will be made even when people have the best of intentions.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 11, 2020, 09:09:55 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 11, 2020, 09:04:54 AM

But it is a statistic.

The problem it is not is not that many are seeing it as a statistic; it’s that many are seeing it as just a statistic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on June 11, 2020, 09:51:49 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 11, 2020, 09:09:55 AM

The problem it is not is not that many are seeing it as a statistic; it’s that many are seeing it as just a statistic.

As opposed to? Statistics in this case are used to track and mitigate risk. If we treat it differently because of the human element then you get into a “who are we to say even one loss of life isn’t acceptable” and you get people clamoring to stay home until we have a cure. It’s a slippery slope to be sure but I’m not sure what sort of special weight you want put to it?

Either you view it as a statistic or you view it in the lens of “each of these is a person no longer with us” like Gov Murphy was doing in every press conference

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on June 11, 2020, 09:53:33 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 11, 2020, 09:04:54 AM

But it is a statistic. The thing I have trouble tracking in my brain is that on average 2.73 Million people die in the US every year. So let's extrapolate and say this year, 300,000 people die of Covid this year......how many of those are net new deaths that wouldn't have happened anyway.

I'm not trying to be a ghoul here or discount the seriousness of Covid, but bring a balance between the continued panic over the deaths and the cavalier attitude that you point out.

We should be wearing masks, we should be distancing, we should be tracking where possible.....but isn't this death outcome kind of sort of baked in, especially if we're going support the protests? I'm not saying I'm numb to but this seems to be where we're at and I'm not sure what we want done about it.

Mu03eng, this is a pretty simple statistic that is widely tracked in excess deaths. Excess deaths compared to the normal average. That metric says we are undercounting COVID-19 deaths.

That means these aren't people that were going to die anyways, unless you mean we will all eventually die. It shows in a year over year average, deaths are up substantially due to COVID.

Another study has shown that the average COVID death would have lived 7-10 more years.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 11, 2020, 09:57:08 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on June 11, 2020, 09:51:49 AM

Either you view it as a statistic or you view it in the lens of “each of these is a person no longer with us” like Gov Murphy was doing in every press conference

Or both...

The process of containment needs data and statistics - we also count to give meaning to the people that contracted this and to try to minimize loss/allocate resources. 

I think the sentiment i believe Goooo is saying (that i tend to agree with) is that it feels that we have given up in some degree on the process of containment....and that is disheartening.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 11, 2020, 10:04:27 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 11, 2020, 09:57:08 AM

Or both...

The process of containment needs data and statistics - we also count to give meaning to the people that contracted this and to try to minimize loss/allocate resources. 

I think the sentiment i believe Goooo is saying (that i tend to agree with) is that it feels that we have given up in some degree on the process of containment....and that is disheartening.

That is basically what I was getting at.  I don't expect our loss of life to be zero, but just commenting that society has largely forgotten those people, and their deaths are just a number now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 11, 2020, 10:13:56 AM

Yeah I agree with Wags here.  Like with everything in life, you take some chances, you mitigate risk and you strike the appropriate balance.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 11, 2020, 10:18:01 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 11, 2020, 10:04:27 AM

That is basically what I was getting at.  I don't expect our loss of life to be zero, but just commenting that society has largely forgotten those people, and their deaths are just a number now.

The vast majority of people who die are forgotten pretty quickly, except for the people who truly knew them.  Why should this be different?  Why should I carry the memory of someone who I don't know who died of Covid anymore than the person who died in a car crash last week or the person who finally succumbed to cancer?

I will likely die a pretty anonymous death.  Outside of my family and close friends, I will probably be forgotten relatively quickly.  Within a generation or two, the only thing left to remember me will be some legal documents and the like.  Just like it's always been.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 11, 2020, 10:22:37 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 11, 2020, 10:18:01 AM

The vast majority of people who die are forgotten pretty quickly, except for the people who truly knew them.  Why should this be different?  Why should I carry the memory of someone who I don't know who died of Covid anymore than the person who died in a car crash last week or the person who finally succumbed to cancer?

I will likely die a pretty anonymous death.  Outside of my family and close friends, I will probably be forgotten relatively quickly.  Within a generation or two, the only thing left to remember me will be some legal documents and the like.  Just like it's always been.

Aw Sultan ... nobody on Scoop could ever forget you.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 11, 2020, 10:23:05 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 11, 2020, 10:18:01 AM

The vast majority of people who die are forgotten pretty quickly, except for the people who truly knew them.  Why should this be different?  Why should I carry the memory of someone who I don't know who died of Covid anymore than the person who died in a car crash last week or the person who finally succumbed to cancer?

I will likely die a pretty anonymous death.  Outside of my family and close friends, I will probably be forgotten relatively quickly.  Within a generation or two, the only thing left to remember me will be some legal documents and the like.  Just like it's always been.

I will die like I lived, stupidly

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on June 11, 2020, 10:30:48 AM

Quote from: MU82 on June 11, 2020, 10:22:37 AM

Aw Sultan ... nobody on Scoop could ever forget you.

Who?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 11, 2020, 10:31:25 AM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 11, 2020, 10:23:05 AM

I will die like I lived, stupidly

Don't sell yourself short, Rico, you're a tremendous slouch.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 11, 2020, 10:54:37 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 11, 2020, 10:18:01 AM

The vast majority of people who die are forgotten pretty quickly, except for the people who truly knew them.  Why should this be different?  Why should I carry the memory of someone who I don't know who died of Covid anymore than the person who died in a car crash last week or the person who finally succumbed to cancer?

I will likely die a pretty anonymous death.  Outside of my family and close friends, I will probably be forgotten relatively quickly.  Within a generation or two, the only thing left to remember me will be some legal documents and the like.  Just like it's always been.

Do we still read the names of the people who died on 9/11?

I'm not suggesting we memorialize each Covid death, but as a whole we seem to have normalized a thousand a day as no big deal anymore.  Again, just commentary.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 11, 2020, 11:09:51 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 11, 2020, 10:54:37 AM

Do we still read the names of the people who died on 9/11?

I'm not suggesting we memorialize each Covid death, but as a whole we seem to have normalized a thousand a day as no big deal anymore.  Again, just commentary.

On average, 7500 people died every day in this country pre-Covid. More are dying now, but at this point is their death truly preventable.

If someone wants to tell me what we can do more than we already doing (yes I think universal mask coverage makes sense) I'm all ears, but until than we mourn and we soldier on. Once you find yourself in hell, keep going to you come out the other side.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 11, 2020, 11:10:00 AM

Sure we read the names of 9/11 victims...I personally don't because I didn't know anyone personally who perished. 

But we also have largely forgotten people who have died is similar types of incidents.  I mean, we have largely forgotten the Maine.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 11, 2020, 11:12:49 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 11, 2020, 11:10:00 AM

Sure we read the names of 9/11 victims...I personally don't because I didn't know anyone personally who perished. 

But we also have largely forgotten people who have died is similar types of incidents.  I mean, we have largely forgotten the Maine.

Besides, comparing a one time sudden event to a long sustained event is nonsensical. The human brain is literally designed to bias the long sustained event, to normalize it. As long as we normalize the reasonable protection measures along with the acceptance of this new way of dying I think it's all we can do.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 11, 2020, 11:28:29 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 11, 2020, 11:10:00 AM

Sure we read the names of 9/11 victims...I personally don't because I didn't know anyone personally who perished. 

But we also have largely forgotten people who have died is similar types of incidents.  I mean, we have largely forgotten the Maine.

People die in Maine?  :D

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on June 11, 2020, 12:14:38 PM

Quote from: forgetful on June 11, 2020, 09:53:33 AM

Mu03eng, this is a pretty simple statistic that is widely tracked in excess deaths. Excess deaths compared to the normal average. That metric says we are undercounting COVID-19 deaths.

That means these aren't people that were going to die anyways, unless you mean we will all eventually die. It shows in a year over year average, deaths are up substantially due to COVID.

Another study has shown that the average COVID death would have lived 7-10 more years.

I haven’t looked at this study in awhile, but I have major issues just based off of simple demographics.

According to the CDC, 60% of COVID deaths are patients 75 and older.  33% are 85 and older. The average lifespan in the US is currently just over 78. When you have well over half the deaths occurring in people at or over the average lifespan in the US, how can they be “expected” to all be living another 7-10 years. It just seems flawed on a fundamental level.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 11, 2020, 12:51:41 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on June 11, 2020, 12:14:38 PM

I haven’t looked at this study in awhile, but I have major issues just based off of simple demographics.

According to the CDC, 60% of COVID deaths are patients 75 and older.  33% are 85 and older. The average lifespan in the US is currently just over 78. When you have well over half the deaths occurring in people at or over the average lifespan in the US, how can they be “expected” to all be living another 7-10 years. It just seems flawed on a fundamental level.

It's a mis-use of the statistical modeling of average. If you made up a control group and said age of death is 80, we have 4 people who are 78, 3 that are 80+, 1 each are 30, 40, and 50. So the "lost years" add up to 8 for the 78s, 0 for the 80+, then 50, 40, and 30 for the individuals the average lost comes out to 12.8 years.....I mean that's terrible, everyone is living 12.8.years less???

It's a scare stat....no doubt that there is premature death for some and it sucks but what is the alternative at this point?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 11, 2020, 02:12:16 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on June 11, 2020, 09:51:49 AM

As opposed to? Statistics in this case are used to track and mitigate risk. If we treat it differently because of the human element then you get into a “who are we to say even one loss of life isn’t acceptable” and you get people clamoring to stay home until we have a cure. It’s a slippery slope to be sure but I’m not sure what sort of special weight you want put to it?

Either you view it as a statistic or you view it in the lens of “each of these is a person no longer with us” like Gov Murphy was doing in every press conference

Of course we have to treat it differently from other statistics because of the human element. And instead of just shrugging your shoulders and saying “oh well, a bunch of people died,” we do more to change it moving forward.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 11, 2020, 02:14:09 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 11, 2020, 09:57:08 AM

Or both...

The process of containment needs data and statistics - we also count to give meaning to the people that contracted this and to try to minimize loss/allocate resources. 

I think the sentiment i believe Goooo is saying (that i tend to agree with) is that it feels that we have given up in some degree on the process of containment....and that is disheartening.

Yes! Very well stated.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 11, 2020, 05:06:46 PM

Trump demanding that all attendees to his rallies sign Covid waivers that they will not sue Trump campaign if they get sick.

I guess a few dead bodies are a legitimate price to pay to stoke Bunker Boy’s ego. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 11, 2020, 05:16:30 PM

Quote from: Jockey on June 11, 2020, 05:06:46 PM

Trump demanding that all attendees to his rallies sign Covid waivers that they will not sue Trump campaign if they get sick.

I guess a few dead bodies are a legitimate price to pay to stoke Bunker Boy’s ego.

Why do they have to sign waivers?  It’s all a hoax.  I listen to Rush Limbaugh

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 11, 2020, 06:57:50 PM

Mayo Clinic launches neutralizing antibody test to advance COVID-19 therapies

https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/mayo-clinic-launches-neutralizing-antibody-test-to-advance-covid-19-therapies/


The new test measures the level of neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. Neutralizing antibodies are a subset of antibodies able to independently inactivate viruses, and are associated with protective immunity against re-infection for many infectious pathogens.

“The neutralizing antibody test is a critical addition to our COVID-19 testing, expanding on the capabilities of the molecular tests used to diagnose active infection and the serology test, which indicates previous infection by identifying antibodies for the SARS-CoV-2 virus,” says William Morice, II, M.D., Ph.D., president of Mayo Clinic Laboratories. “This new test provides us with incredibly important information about how effective a person’s antibodies are at neutralizing the virus. This will help us identify optimal convalescent plasma donors and ultimately help assess the efficacy of anti-SARS-CoV-2 vaccines.”

——————

Posted this here because it relates both to testing and to the ability to evaluate potential vaccines.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 11, 2020, 07:46:27 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 11, 2020, 11:09:51 AM

If someone wants to tell me what we can do more than we already doing (yes I think universal mask coverage makes sense) I'm all ears, but until than we mourn and we soldier on.

All my ideas involve the federal government Driving efficiency and standard process with the states.  Which isn’t happening so not worth discussing. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 11, 2020, 08:47:57 PM

The Federal Govt could be ramping up testing even faster than is being done.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 11, 2020, 09:16:40 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 11, 2020, 08:47:57 PM

The Federal Govt could be ramping up testing even faster than is being done.

Not disagreeing, but is there a shortfall of people needing/requesting testing?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 11, 2020, 09:24:02 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 11, 2020, 09:16:40 PM

Not disagreeing, but is there a shortfall of people needing/requesting testing?

Cost/quantity of Supplies, method/system to trace, training/hiring are a few to start with

I will say ability to process tests and partnership on therapy and vaccine seems good.  So NIH good job.  CDC has been terrible.  FDA could have been much better.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 11, 2020, 09:35:42 PM

Federal government should be leading the way in testing AND contact tracing. CDC wrote the book on contact tracing, yet Trump is leaving the state and local public health officials to do it on their own.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on June 11, 2020, 10:03:39 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 11, 2020, 06:57:50 PM

Mayo Clinic launches neutralizing antibody test to advance COVID-19 therapies

https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/mayo-clinic-launches-neutralizing-antibody-test-to-advance-covid-19-therapies/


The new test measures the level of neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. Neutralizing antibodies are a subset of antibodies able to independently inactivate viruses, and are associated with protective immunity against re-infection for many infectious pathogens.

“The neutralizing antibody test is a critical addition to our COVID-19 testing, expanding on the capabilities of the molecular tests used to diagnose active infection and the serology test, which indicates previous infection by identifying antibodies for the SARS-CoV-2 virus,” says William Morice, II, M.D., Ph.D., president of Mayo Clinic Laboratories. “This new test provides us with incredibly important information about how effective a person’s antibodies are at neutralizing the virus. This will help us identify optimal convalescent plasma donors and ultimately help assess the efficacy of anti-SARS-CoV-2 vaccines.”

——————

Posted this here because it relates both to testing and to the ability to evaluate potential vaccines.

Ok so help me out here Goooo and forgetful. The plasma study showed no significant improvement on patient outcomes, and the hope behind plasma was that it would contain enough antibodies to fight the virus.

So how are these neutralizing antibodies different than those found in convalescent plasma? More concentrated? More specific/effective to fighting the virus in the lab? More full of COVID krypton?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 11, 2020, 10:15:18 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on June 11, 2020, 10:03:39 PM

Ok so help me out here Goooo and forgetful. The plasma study showed no significant improvement on patient outcomes, and the hope behind plasma was that it would contain enough antibodies to fight the virus.

So how are these neutralizing antibodies different than those found in convalescent plasma? More concentrated? More specific/effective to fighting the virus in the lab? More full of COVID krypton?

I‘m not positive... but I believe the key from the link is that the new test is “semi quantitative”...meaning that it not only detects that you have antibodies, but can also distinguish whether you have enough antibodies to effectively fight off the disease.

I’m interested to hear if forgetful reads it the same way.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 11, 2020, 10:26:31 PM

Houston Weighs New Lockdown, Sees ‘Precipice of Disaster’

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-11/houston-may-reopen-virus-hospital-at-stadium-as-cases-expand

Houston-area officials are “getting close” to reimposing stay-at-home orders and are prepared to reopen a Covid-19 hospital established but never used at a football stadium as virus cases expand in the fourth-largest U.S. city.

—————

My worry when state after state reopened without even coming close to the first phase standard in the CDC guidance. I thought we’d at least get through the summer before this - some said we’d never see stay at home orders again - and now it looks like we might see the first major city before June is over. Oy!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on June 11, 2020, 10:40:51 PM

People who were celebrating the reopening and saying we completely overreacted to the virus have gone very silent.

I wish they had been right. Unfortunately our president was terribly wrong when he said this would disappear, that we’d be down to 0 cases come April, that we’d be reopen for business come Easter, that the virus would go away like a miracle come warm weather. Nobody in their right minds would believe what goes against absolutely everything about science, but he has the MAGAs brain washed and when things go bad they just go hiding in a bunker, literally.

But maybe he’ll get his sports stadiums full of fans by August like promised. At some point he has to get one thing right just by pure luck, right?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on June 11, 2020, 10:49:54 PM

Quote from: wadesworld on June 11, 2020, 10:40:51 PM

People who were celebrating the reopening and saying we completely overreacted to the virus have gone very silent.

I wish they had been right. Unfortunately our president was terribly wrong when he said this would disappear, that we’d be down to 0 cases come April, that we’d be reopen for business come Easter, that the virus would go away like a miracle come warm weather. Nobody in their right minds would believe what goes against absolutely everything about science, but he has the MAGAs brain washed and when things go bad they just go hiding in a bunker, literally.

But maybe he’ll get his sports stadiums full of fans by August like promised. At some point he has to get one thing right just by pure luck, right?

Are you talking on this board? Or otherwise? There are plenty of places where reopening is going just fine. And plenty of justifiable arguments that some places more than necessary was done while others not enough or soon enough was done.

Not everything has to be completely and utterly political to the farthest stretches. It’s possible to celebrate reopening and not be a “brain washed MAGA”. It’s possible to look back at the economic and financial toll of a 3 month lockdown with a critical eye and not be a brain dead Trump crony.   It’s possible to do all those things also realize Houston could have a completely different situation than many other places that have reopened without calling everything a total win or loss for either school of thought across the board.  It’s arrogant pandering tribal garbage.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on June 11, 2020, 11:11:21 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on June 11, 2020, 10:49:54 PM

Are you talking on this board? Or otherwise? There are plenty of places where reopening is going just fine. And plenty of justifiable arguments that some places more than necessary was done while others not enough or soon enough was done.

Not everything has to be completely and utterly political to the farthest stretches. It’s possible to celebrate reopening and not be a “brain washed MAGA”. It’s possible to look back at the economic and financial toll of a 3 month lockdown with a critical eye and not be a brain dead Trump crony.   It’s possible to do all those things also realize Houston could have a completely different situation than many other places that have reopened without calling everything a total win or loss for either school of thought across the board.  It’s arrogant pandering tribal garbage.

It’s also possible that Houston is the first of more to come. But we won’t act upon the warning signs until it’s already hit us.

Guess we’ll see. But I’ve already seen it play out once. And scientists have been warning about reopening too early or too recklessly. So maybe Houston is just a “different situation” and we’ll write it off as that and as more cities see increases in cases and hospitalizations it’ll just be “how could we ever know this was coming? Totally different situation.”

Maybe Houston just needs some warm weather for once. Damn shame they can’t get any heat there to clear up the virus.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on June 11, 2020, 11:24:59 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on June 11, 2020, 10:49:54 PM

Are you talking on this board? Or otherwise? There are plenty of places where reopening is going just fine. And plenty of justifiable arguments that some places more than necessary was done while others not enough or soon enough was done.

Not everything has to be completely and utterly political to the farthest stretches. It’s possible to celebrate reopening and not be a “brain washed MAGA”. It’s possible to look back at the economic and financial toll of a 3 month lockdown with a critical eye and not be a brain dead Trump crony.   It’s possible to do all those things also realize Houston could have a completely different situation than many other places that have reopened without calling everything a total win or loss for either school of thought across the board.  It’s arrogant pandering tribal garbage.

Also I’m 100% convinced anyone who supports someone who Tweets this:

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1270333484528214018?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwgr%5E393535353b636f6e74726f6c&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-30673030433285602908.ampproject.net%2F2005272217000%2Fframe.html

Or this:

https://www.npr.org/2020/05/29/864818368/the-history-behind-when-the-looting-starts-the-shooting-starts

Or does this:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2020/06/trumps-church-photo-op-all-the-absurd-details.html

Or this:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/amp/trump-s-worst-offense-mocking-disabled-reporter-poll-finds-n627736

Is absolutely brainwashed. Call it arrogant pandering tribal garbage, but I’m just calling it as I see it, and I can’t see any other possible explanation. It’s an absolute embarrassment that the people of this country voted this guy anywhere close to the White House.

Very sad.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 11, 2020, 11:36:03 PM

Bunker Boy has already put Covid in the rear view mirror. Just a few embers to put out and it is over. Some experts are predicting 200,000 dead by September and he has no plan. FEMA docs today showed that their plan to deal with PPE shortages this summer is to hope it goes away. This is the biggest dereliction of duty by a president in US history.

The CDC has become an embarrassment. What are we hearing from them? The lackey running the place has allowed them to be silenced. They used to be the gold standard.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on June 11, 2020, 11:40:44 PM

Quote from: wadesworld on June 11, 2020, 11:24:59 PM

Also I’m 100% convinced anyone who supports someone who Tweets this:

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1270333484528214018?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwgr%5E393535353b636f6e74726f6c&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-30673030433285602908.ampproject.net%2F2005272217000%2Fframe.html

Or this:

https://www.npr.org/2020/05/29/864818368/the-history-behind-when-the-looting-starts-the-shooting-starts

Or does this:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2020/06/trumps-church-photo-op-all-the-absurd-details.html

Or this:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/amp/trump-s-worst-offense-mocking-disabled-reporter-poll-finds-n627736

Is absolutely brainwashed. Call it arrogant pandering tribal garbage, but I’m just calling it as I see it, and I can’t see any other possible explanation. It’s an absolute embarrassment that the people of this country voted this guy anywhere close to the White House.

Very sad.

Dude, did you read anything I said? I literally said it was possible to support/celebrate reopening and not be some breathless MAGA Trump supporter. I spoke directly to the virus and not having to automatically politicize any viewpoint as either MAGA or “sensible science and reason”...and you IMMEDIATELY went back to Trump and his supporters talking about a bunch of crap I wasn’t even referencing.  This is a COVID board, not a politics board, I was merely objecting to the idea that everyone who didn’t share the most extreme COVID caution or differed from the more conservative approaches to reopening was automatically MAGA and a bunker boy associate of President Pandemic. Cause that’s what gets heavily implied at times.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 11, 2020, 11:41:38 PM

Quote from: wadesworld on June 11, 2020, 11:11:21 PM

It’s also possible that Houston is the first of more to come. But we won’t act upon the warning signs until it’s already hit us.

Not only possible, but it is reality. Montgomery, Alabama out of beds. Phoenix almost out of beds. skyrocketing rates in many other states as we get 15+ days from Memorial Day. People everywhere pretending that Covid never happened. I hope I am wrong, but I fear the worst.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on June 11, 2020, 11:47:30 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on June 11, 2020, 11:40:44 PM

Dude, did you read anything I said? I literally said it was possible to support/celebrate reopening and not be some breathless MAGA Trump supporter. I spoke directly to the virus and not having to automatically politicize any viewpoint as either MAGA or “sensible science and reason”...and you IMMEDIATELY went back to Trump and his supporters talking about a bunch of crap I wasn’t even referencing.  This is a COVID board, not a politics board, I was merely objecting to the idea that everyone who didn’t share the most extreme COVID caution or differed from the more conservative approaches to reopening was automatically MAGA and a bunker boy associate of President Pandemic. Cause that’s what gets heavily implied at times.

Yeah and my post above that addresses the covid portion of it. I was adding why I said MAGAs are brain washed.

My problem is we’ve seen this play out before with covid. First it was “nah this is staying in China.” Then it was “nah this won’t make it to the US” when it got to other countries but not the US. Then it was “it won’t be bad here, it’ll just disappear.”

Like I said, maybe Houston is somehow the one city that will get hit severely as they reopen. But everything we’ve seen so far tells us that’s almost certainly not going to be the case. So I hope we take it more seriously than the first time around and are quick to act.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 12, 2020, 06:17:36 AM

Here in NC, 4th consecutive day of record COVID-19 hospitalizations.

At least deaths this past week have ticked down somewhat after setting record after record the previous several weeks.

Meanwhile, a small auto-racing track in a mostly rural county that sits between Greensboro and Durham, twice held races with fans in defiance of the governor's order. The state sued and a judge yesterday sided with the state, legally forbidding the track from allowing fans at races.

The governor is getting heat for marching with hundreds of protesters but not letting the track operate.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 12, 2020, 07:49:08 AM

It's pretty hard to seperate politics from this when many of these "openings" are due to political pressure being applied at the very top. 

Everybody knows we are balancing the economy and health, but the concern is that if health continues to decline, the economy is going to be in even worse shape. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 12, 2020, 07:54:08 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 11, 2020, 09:24:02 PM

Cost/quantity of Supplies, method/system to trace, training/hiring are a few to start with

I will say ability to process tests and partnership on therapy and vaccine seems good.  So NIH good job.  CDC has been terrible.  FDA could have been much better.

Rolling Stone has a good article in the current issue on these agencies not getting along or cooperating.  I didn't realize that the CDC head is a waiting on the Apocalypse like Pompeo and Pence beleiver.  The FDA head was brand new, was qualified and for over a month left him out of any COVID decisions.  He (Hahn?) was finally brought in later and some logjams were broken up.  The test the CDC developed had 3 separate steps and the third step was the question mark one.  The test got "fixed" simply by getting rid of the third step all together.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 12, 2020, 08:10:57 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 12, 2020, 07:49:08 AM

It's pretty hard to seperate politics from this when many of these "openings" are due to political pressure being applied at the very top. 

Everybody knows we are balancing the economy and health, but the concern is that if health continues to decline, the economy is going to be in even worse shape.

I agree, but at the same time, some of what is going on here is obnoxious.  I'm certainly not innocent, but I've tried to be better.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 12, 2020, 08:13:15 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 12, 2020, 08:10:57 AM

I agree, but at the same time, some of what is going on here is obnoxious.  I'm certainly not innocent, but I've tried to be better.

Oh I agree completely.  The gratuitious political commentary, almost entirely by two or three people on the left, is completely obnoxious.  It has chased too many people away.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on June 12, 2020, 08:37:40 AM

My sister telling me that scottsdale Phoenix is seeing a massive rise and it's mostly young people. I believe they were one of the first to reopen

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 12, 2020, 09:07:57 AM

Yeah, it isn’t just Houston. Other localized areas like Montgomery are on the edge of disaster, and entire states like NC and AZ are rapidly getting there.

As for CDC, the Director is a joke, but the mainline workers are dedicated and highly qualified to do the job. IMHO, the career public servants have been handcuffed so they don’t interfere with The Message.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 12, 2020, 09:09:28 AM

Wear a mask:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/face-masks-highly-effective-against-covid-19-new-evidence-suggests-1.4276883?mode=amp#.XuODIJPI20U.twitter

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 12, 2020, 09:11:09 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on June 12, 2020, 08:37:40 AM

My sister telling me that scottsdale Phoenix is seeing a massive rise and it's mostly young people. I believe they were one of the first to reopen

Affirmative. And it isn’t just new cases - it has recently been seeing new highs for deaths, hospitalizations, ICU occupancy and ventilator use.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-health/2020/06/11/arizona-coronavirus-update-june-11-large-covid-19-increases-continue/5338764002/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 12, 2020, 09:16:23 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 09, 2020, 07:22:46 PM

The fact that California is on that list should make people re-evaluate the lockdowns. They locked down early and had some of the most draconian measures and they are just now having their highest infection rate?

Or maybe it's this.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-06-12/a-revolt-against-wearing-masks-creates-a-new-coronavirus-danger-as-california-reopens__;!!JCruJraw!fAo7fIdRmRq7GJZGOndsGtyOPSAt_wZsnJ59bBgD-jlrgviZJtEousmhrXh6RXyFfw$ (https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-06-12/a-revolt-against-wearing-masks-creates-a-new-coronavirus-danger-as-california-reopens__;!!JCruJraw!fAo7fIdRmRq7GJZGOndsGtyOPSAt_wZsnJ59bBgD-jlrgviZJtEousmhrXh6RXyFfw$)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on June 12, 2020, 09:29:45 AM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 11, 2020, 05:16:30 PM

Why do they have to sign waivers?  It’s all a hoax.  I listen to Rush Limbaugh

(https://i.imgur.com/ECVX5nOl.jpg)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on June 12, 2020, 10:16:29 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 12, 2020, 09:07:57 AM

Yeah, it isn’t just Houston. Other localized areas like Montgomery are on the edge of disaster, and entire states like NC and AZ are rapidly getting there.

As for CDC, the Director is a joke, but the mainline workers are dedicated and highly qualified to do the job. IMHO, the career public servants have been handcuffed so they don’t interfere with The Message.

Did these places have a first wave?  Did they go into lockdown before things really hit them and now are first really getting hit?  If you go to the link below the cases never flattened in AZ and yet they reopened

https://www.azdhs.gov/preparedness/epidemiology-disease-control/infectious-disease-epidemiology/covid-19/dashboards/index.php

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 12, 2020, 11:09:40 AM

Does anybody know where the hell Benny is?

He started the very first coronavirus thread but he hasn't posted on any thread on any board since March 18.

Hope he's OK.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: BM1090 on June 12, 2020, 11:15:46 AM

Quote from: MU82 on June 12, 2020, 11:09:40 AM

Does anybody know where the hell Benny is?

He started the very first coronavirus thread but he hasn't posted on any thread on any board since March 18.

Hope he's OK.

If you click into his profile it looks like he was active on June 6th. Hopefully just lurking.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 12, 2020, 12:33:36 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on June 12, 2020, 10:16:29 AM

Did these places have a first wave?  Did they go into lockdown before things really hit them and now are first really getting hit?  If you go to the link below the cases never flattened in AZ and yet they reopened

https://www.azdhs.gov/preparedness/epidemiology-disease-control/infectious-disease-epidemiology/covid-19/dashboards/index.php

It all depends on how many cases you'd have to have to define it as a "first wave." They all certainly had cases and hospitalized patients. But regardless, they all been reopening LONG before meeting the criteria even for phase I of reopening.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 12, 2020, 01:09:46 PM

Quote from: MU82 on June 12, 2020, 11:09:40 AM

Does anybody know where the hell Benny is?

He started the very first coronavirus thread but he hasn't posted on any thread on any board since March 18.

Hope he's OK.

Maybe it is taking this long for him to come up with his next witty quip.

I am just joking - as I enjoy his posts more than any guy here with whom I generally disagree.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 12, 2020, 01:12:51 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 12, 2020, 07:49:08 AM

It's pretty hard to seperate politics from this when many of these "openings" are due to political pressure being applied at the very top. 

Everybody knows we are balancing the economy and health, but the concern is that if health continues to decline, the economy is going to be in even worse shape.

Your point is spot on, but let's not assume that all governors are even trying to achieve this balancing act. Most are and we have to hope they will be successful. But there are several who have clearly put their economy way, way ahead of their concern for the health of their citizens.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 12, 2020, 01:38:12 PM

Benny's people learned that some here were inquiring about his whereabouts, so they reached out to my people. Benny's people told my people to tell me to tell you that Benny is just fine, thank you, and enjoying his summer.

Benny's people also told my people to tell me to tell you that, should you wish to interact with Benny in the near future, you should just summon Benny's image in your mind. Benny's people will telepathically evaluate your request and pass it on to Benny if warranted. Benny will then contact you, likely through his people. It is unclear whether my people would be involved in the contact process, but they remain at the ready if necessary.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: real chili 83 on June 12, 2020, 01:46:48 PM

I can neither confirm or deny that he is alive and well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 12, 2020, 01:52:16 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 12, 2020, 01:38:12 PM

Benny's people learned that some here were inquiring about his whereabouts, so they reached out to my people. Benny's people told my people to tell me to tell you that Benny is just fine, thank you, and enjoying his summer.

Benny's people also told my people to tell me to tell you that, should you wish to interact with Benny in the near future, you should just summon Benny's image in your mind. Benny's people will telepathically evaluate your request and pass it on to Benny if warranted. Benny will then contact you, likely through his people. It is unclear whether my people would be involved in the contact process, but they remain at the ready if necessary.

Very Benny-esque style, Goo.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 12, 2020, 02:06:57 PM

Quote from: Jockey on June 12, 2020, 01:52:16 PM

Very Benny-sequence style, Goo.

Benny's people told my people to tell me that that was required for the update.  ;)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 12, 2020, 02:54:06 PM

Unfortunately, North Carolina is seeing cases, percentage positives and hospitalizations all spike.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article243490631.html?

North Carolina is experiencing its “first wave,” or peak, of coronavirus cases, as the percentage of positive cases continue to rise, the state’s top health official said Friday.

The state’s positive coronavirus test rate remains among the highest in the country and has continued to rise, said Dr. Mandy Cohen, secretary of the N.C. Department Health and Human Services.

Testing has reached record levels statewide, Cohen added, so more positive cases would be expected. But she said that’s not the only reason for the spike. The disease is growing through communal spread.

“That timing is very much linked to the last two to three weeks,” Cohen said at a news conference Friday. “It’s very much linked to when we started reopening.”

North Carolina began its first phase of reopening on May 8 with the second phase starting May 22.

Cohen said the state flattened the curve — or did not see an early surge — to suggest the recent increase is a new escalation.

“This isn’t a second wave. This for us is a first,” Cohen said. “I think this is our first experience at an increase. It reminds us that this virus is here and we have to live with this virus, because we don’t have a vaccine. We don’t have a cure.”

North Carolina Gov. Roy Cooper said Friday he has not made a decision about moving into the next stage of reopening the state, calling the COVID-19 numbers “sobering.”

Cooper eased restrictions in late May, entering Phase Two of the state’s plan. A transition to Phase Three, or an interim stage Cooper calls Phase 2.5, could come as soon as June 26.

Cooper said Friday his administration has not made a decision on the June 26 date but said it’s still on the table.

“I know people are tired of this virus,” he said. “It’s been hard on everybody. But it’s still deadly.”

This sucks.

I don't want our economy to have to take a step backward.

My wife and I were just starting to feel a little more confident - went out with another couple last Saturday, I've grabbed a couple beers with buddies each of the last 3 Thursdays, etc.

However, we have been dismayed that so few people wear masks. We were in Chicago over Memorial Day weekend, and just about everybody was wearing a mask. We saw people running, riding bikes, laying out in the park, etc, and all were wearing masks. The grocery stores require them, etc. It gives you a better feeling that some mouth-breather isn't gonna share his "droplets" with you as he walks by.

I guess we'll just see what happens here. Not great, though, obvi.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on June 12, 2020, 04:14:28 PM

Quote from: MU82 on June 12, 2020, 02:54:06 PM

Unfortunately, North Carolina is seeing cases, percentage positives and hospitalizations all spike.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article243490631.html?

North Carolina is experiencing its “first wave,” or peak, of coronavirus cases, as the percentage of positive cases continue to rise, the state’s top health official said Friday.

The state’s positive coronavirus test rate remains among the highest in the country and has continued to rise, said Dr. Mandy Cohen, secretary of the N.C. Department Health and Human Services.

Testing has reached record levels statewide, Cohen added, so more positive cases would be expected. But she said that’s not the only reason for the spike. The disease is growing through communal spread.

“That timing is very much linked to the last two to three weeks,” Cohen said at a news conference Friday. “It’s very much linked to when we started reopening.”

North Carolina began its first phase of reopening on May 8 with the second phase starting May 22.

Cohen said the state flattened the curve — or did not see an early surge — to suggest the recent increase is a new escalation.

“This isn’t a second wave. This for us is a first,” Cohen said. “I think this is our first experience at an increase. It reminds us that this virus is here and we have to live with this virus, because we don’t have a vaccine. We don’t have a cure.”

North Carolina Gov. Roy Cooper said Friday he has not made a decision about moving into the next stage of reopening the state, calling the COVID-19 numbers “sobering.”

Cooper eased restrictions in late May, entering Phase Two of the state’s plan. A transition to Phase Three, or an interim stage Cooper calls Phase 2.5, could come as soon as June 26.

Cooper said Friday his administration has not made a decision on the June 26 date but said it’s still on the table.

“I know people are tired of this virus,” he said. “It’s been hard on everybody. But it’s still deadly.”

This sucks.

I don't want our economy to have to take a step backward.

My wife and I were just starting to feel a little more confident - went out with another couple last Saturday, I've grabbed a couple beers with buddies each of the last 3 Thursdays, etc.

However, we have been dismayed that so few people wear masks. We were in Chicago over Memorial Day weekend, and just about everybody was wearing a mask. We saw people running, riding bikes, laying out in the park, etc, and all were wearing masks. The grocery stores require them, etc. It gives you a better feeling that some mouth-breather isn't gonna share his "droplets" with you as he walks by.

I guess we'll just see what happens here. Not great, though, obvi.

kind of what i said earlier today.  These states that are seeing a big spike now did not see a big spike early or a first wave.  Real interested to see what happens here in WI.  First the election was supposed to have give us a huge spike. We opened everyone said wait 3 weeks nothing glaring there. Now we had memorial day which was 3 weeks ago.  No big spike so far.  Then the protests.
Is it possible this virus has 1 big spike in an area and then slows down?  I have no idea.  I try to be as optimistic as possible cause I have 4 kids that live and die with sports and a senior to be in HS that does not want to have his final season of football taken away.

I talked to a friend in Alabama, his wife is a nurse and she said they have seen an increase but a lot of the issue is they are treating so many other patients for things other than covid.  so might be a hospital issue that they accepted too many patients too soon.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 12, 2020, 04:20:12 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 12, 2020, 02:06:57 PM

Benny's people told my people to tell me that that was required for the update.  ;)

I’ll have my people tell your people to tell Benny’s people that ... wait ... what the hell were we talkin’ about?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 12, 2020, 04:39:38 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on June 12, 2020, 04:14:28 PM

kind of what i said earlier today.  These states that are seeing a big spike now did not see a big spike early or a first wave.  Real interested to see what happens here in WI.  First the election was supposed to have give us a huge spike. We opened everyone said wait 3 weeks nothing glaring there. Now we had memorial day which was 3 weeks ago.  No big spike so far.  Then the protests.
Is it possible this virus has 1 big spike in an area and then slows down?  I have no idea.  I try to be as optimistic as possible cause I have 4 kids that live and die with sports and a senior to be in HS that does not want to have his final season of football taken away.

I talked to a friend in Alabama, his wife is a nurse and she said they have seen an increase but a lot of the issue is they are treating so many other patients for things other than covid.  so might be a hospital issue that they accepted too many patients too soon.

Second waves are a thing.  Just look at Iran. 

Here there could be a dynamic where the first wave was stymied in some areas.  Only to get spread later.  I’d say WI could be a candidate for that (delayed first impact).

To your point though we should be much better equipped to detect outbreak, contain and treat.   I hope that plays out in the areas where things are getting hot. 

All my opinion of course. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 12, 2020, 04:52:01 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on June 12, 2020, 04:14:28 PM

Is it possible this virus has 1 big spike in an area and then slows down?  I have no idea.  I try to be as optimistic as possible cause I have 4 kids that live and die with sports and a senior to be in HS that does not want to have his final season of football taken away.

It’s possible, but I’m struggling to think of many likely scenarios where that would happen.

Maybe if there were a lot more (like 10 or 20 times more) undetected asymptomatic cases than we realize, resulting in herd immunity? Or if there is some genetic factor that renders a good portion of the population resistant to infection? There is some hope of the latter, with non-peer reviewed data from several sources suggesting that people with type O blood are disproportionately spared from covid so far, and generally get less severe illness when they get the virus. Still, that wouldn’t get us to herd immunity yet, unless combined with something more.

I was hoping that “lessons learned” from all the previously treated patients would be a big factor, but the death rates don’t seem to be moving a whole lot from where they were a few weeks back.

So maybe I’ll stick with it’s possible, but I still expect a surge in late summer or fall.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 12, 2020, 05:08:39 PM

Oof.

University of Houston is suspending all voluntary workouts due to multiple student athletes testing positive.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 12, 2020, 05:51:07 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 12, 2020, 05:08:39 PM

Oof.

University of Houston is suspending all voluntary workouts due to multiple student athletes testing positive.

Absent some miracle vaccine or treatment in the very short term, I struggle to see the resumption of close contact sports like football or basketball anytime soon. By the time a player tests positive he has already had close contact with numerous teammates and likely players on opposing teams. It’s a hot spot waiting to happen.

Maybe baseball because there is considerably less contact, but as usual the MLB players and owners are doing everything they can to make sure a season never happens.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 12, 2020, 05:57:23 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 12, 2020, 05:51:07 PM

Absent some miracle vaccine or treatment in the very short term, I struggle to see the resumption of close contact sports like football or basketball anytime soon. By the time a player tests positive he has already had close contact with numerous teammates and likely players on opposing teams. It’s a hot spot waiting to happen.

Maybe baseball because there is considerably less contact, but as usual the MLB players and owners are doing everything they can to make sure a season never happens.

Over on the Al board, I think it was brewski who said he didn't think there would be a 2020-21 college basketball season. Several of us pooh-poohed that - me because I'm ever the optimist, and others for other reasons - but maybe he'll have proven to be right.

That would really, really, REALLY suck.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on June 12, 2020, 07:27:48 PM

Some on here have been critical of government agencies that are involved in the science, saying they have gotten some things wrong. I had emphasized in the past that remember there is always a political filter.

An example from a conversation today I had with a colleague who is a prominent government employed researcher. I hadn't chatted with him in a while, but knew he was working on projects related to COVID (essentially they all are at this point). They had made a moderate discovery that impacted COVID spread. They asked to do a press release, it was blocked by the office of the Vice President.

The published research was recognized by media anyway, who wanted to do stories/interviews regarding the data and discoveries. All such inquiries must be forwarded to the office of the Vice President, who again blocked any researchers on the topic from speaking with media about the results.

Instead they allowed one of their hand-picked people, who had nothing to do with the topic the part in interviews, where they completely distorted the message to align with the political message and ideas from the White House.

When everything has to go through Pence's office and is filtered by the political message before being released, some discoveries are being squashed and others distorted for political purposes. Very sad state.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 12, 2020, 07:31:55 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on June 12, 2020, 04:14:28 PM

I talked to a friend in Alabama, his wife is a nurse and she said they have seen an increase but a lot of the issue is they are treating so many other patients for things other than covid.  so might be a hospital issue that they accepted too many patients too soon.

One other observation.  Why is this an ‘issue’.  Our hospitals are never at zero capacity and are treating a variety of necessary things. 

The issue is the epidemic/pandemic....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 12, 2020, 07:39:07 PM

Quote from: forgetful on June 12, 2020, 07:27:48 PM

Some on here have been critical of government agencies that are involved in the science, saying they have gotten some things wrong. I had emphasized in the past that remember there is always a political filter.

An example from a conversation today I had with a colleague who is a prominent government employed researcher. I hadn't chatted with him in a while, but knew he was working on projects related to COVID (essentially they all are at this point). They had made a moderate discovery that impacted COVID spread. They asked to do a press release, it was blocked by the office of the Vice President.

The published research was recognized by media anyway, who wanted to do stories/interviews regarding the data and discoveries. All such inquiries must be forwarded to the office of the Vice President, who again blocked any researchers on the topic from speaking with media about the results.

Instead they allowed one of their hand-picked people, who had nothing to do with the topic the part in interviews, where they completely distorted the message to align with the political message and ideas from the White House.

When everything has to go through Pence's office and is filtered by the political message before being released, some discoveries are being squashed and others distorted for political purposes. Very sad state.

That is appalling. I suspected that might be occurring, but had no evidence.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 12, 2020, 07:56:20 PM

Quote from: forgetful on June 12, 2020, 07:27:48 PM

Some on here have been critical of government agencies that are involved in the science, saying they have gotten some things wrong. I had emphasized in the past that remember there is always a political filter.

An example from a conversation today I had with a colleague who is a prominent government employed researcher. I hadn't chatted with him in a while, but knew he was working on projects related to COVID (essentially they all are at this point). They had made a moderate discovery that impacted COVID spread. They asked to do a press release, it was blocked by the office of the Vice President.

The published research was recognized by media anyway, who wanted to do stories/interviews regarding the data and discoveries. All such inquiries must be forwarded to the office of the Vice President, who again blocked any researchers on the topic from speaking with media about the results.

Instead they allowed one of their hand-picked people, who had nothing to do with the topic the part in interviews, where they completely distorted the message to align with the political message and ideas from the White House.

When everything has to go through Pence's office and is filtered by the political message before being released, some discoveries are being squashed and others distorted for political purposes. Very sad state.

Almost exactly what they have done to the CDC.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on June 12, 2020, 09:21:57 PM

Florida and Palm Beach county with all time highs. They are very vocally anti mask here, at least about 50% anyway.

It’s ironic that those shouting loudest for reopening are also the ones doing the most to ensure that reopening fails.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 12, 2020, 10:26:21 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on June 12, 2020, 09:21:57 PM

Florida and Palm Beach county with all time highs. They are very vocally anti mask here, at least about 50% anyway.

It’s ironic moronic that those shouting loudest for reopening are also the ones doing the most to ensure that reopening fails.

FIFY

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 13, 2020, 05:11:37 AM

European strain of the virus is a mutation that has made it easier to transmit.  May explain some of the regional differences in spread. 

 https://www.scripps.edu/news-and-events/press-room/2020/20200612-choe-farzan-coronavirus-spike-mutation.html (https://www.scripps.edu/news-and-events/press-room/2020/20200612-choe-farzan-coronavirus-spike-mutation.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on June 13, 2020, 08:57:53 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 12, 2020, 09:07:57 AM

Yeah, it isn’t just Houston. Other localized areas like Montgomery are on the edge of disaster, and entire states like NC and AZ are rapidly getting there.

As for CDC, the Director is a joke, but the mainline workers are dedicated and highly qualified to do the job. IMHO, the career public servants have been handcuffed so they don’t interfere with The Message.

We Are Sweden.

Which by the way, Deaths per million:
Sweden 483
Denmark 103
Finland 59
Norway 45


Chicos got his wish.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on June 13, 2020, 10:02:10 AM

These charts look to be going in the right direction


https://twitter.com/bandit_polish/status/1271564539583217665

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on June 13, 2020, 10:23:59 AM

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/tribes-covid-19-federal-relief-treasury-deb-haaland_n_5ea9decac5b633a8544487d9

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 13, 2020, 02:19:35 PM

Head of Harvard Global Health Institute

https://mobile.twitter.com/ashishkjha/status/1271411982965579776 (https://mobile.twitter.com/ashishkjha/status/1271411982965579776)

Interesting analysis by Dr Tom Friedman (former cdc head)

https://mobile.twitter.com/DrTomFrieden/status/1271850285363859457 (https://mobile.twitter.com/DrTomFrieden/status/1271850285363859457)

A voice from a prior tragedy (LTG Honore)

 https://mobile.twitter.com/ltgrusselhonore/status/1271554592585760773 (https://mobile.twitter.com/ltgrusselhonore/status/1271554592585760773)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on June 13, 2020, 02:23:37 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 13, 2020, 02:19:35 PM

Head of Harvard Global Health Institute

https://mobile.twitter.com/ashishkjha/status/1271411982965579776 (https://mobile.twitter.com/ashishkjha/status/1271411982965579776)

Interesting analysis by Dr Tom Friedman (former cdc head)

https://mobile.twitter.com/DrTomFrieden/status/1271850285363859457 (https://mobile.twitter.com/DrTomFrieden/status/1271850285363859457)

A voice from a prior tragedy (LTG Honore)

 https://mobile.twitter.com/ltgrusselhonore/status/1271554592585760773 (https://mobile.twitter.com/ltgrusselhonore/status/1271554592585760773)

What bothers me is that so much of what is going on lately, in so many regards, are things that would have previously been universally condemned. All news outlets would make it clear that everything is a mess, and the actions of those in charge are wrong.

Now, we have a ton of apathy. One side just doesn't have the energy/will to keep pointing out the problems. And the other side doesn't even care, or hides from it. It is all a bit depressing and exhausting.

And most of congress, just wants to fight amongst themselves while nothing gets done.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 13, 2020, 02:56:47 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 13, 2020, 02:19:35 PM

Head of Harvard Global Health Institute

https://mobile.twitter.com/ashishkjha/status/1271411982965579776 (https://mobile.twitter.com/ashishkjha/status/1271411982965579776)

Interesting analysis by Dr Tom Friedman (former cdc head)

https://mobile.twitter.com/DrTomFrieden/status/1271850285363859457 (https://mobile.twitter.com/DrTomFrieden/status/1271850285363859457)

A voice from a prior tragedy (LTG Honore)

 https://mobile.twitter.com/ltgrusselhonore/status/1271554592585760773 (https://mobile.twitter.com/ltgrusselhonore/status/1271554592585760773)

This is horribly depressing, but they are correct. The head of the Harvard Global Health Institute best summarizes what I have seen - at least from the highest levels - that "the federal government has just thrown in the towel." The people within CDC still seem to be trying to do their jobs, but their recommendations and data are kept from public view and willfully ignored by higher leadership. And the President holds rallies....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on June 13, 2020, 05:21:06 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 13, 2020, 02:56:47 PM

This is horribly depressing, but they are correct. The head of the Harvard Global Health Institute best summarizes what I have seen - at least from the highest levels - that "the federal government has just thrown in the towel."

Jared is fixing it just like he fixed everything else

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 13, 2020, 09:04:05 PM

COVID-19 Hospital Bill:

https://twitter.com/liamstack/status/1271798025413951490?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 13, 2020, 09:14:19 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on June 13, 2020, 09:04:05 PM

COVID-19 Hospital Bill:

https://twitter.com/liamstack/status/1271798025413951490?s=19

This tiny virus could do more to move us toward universal healthcare than Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren put together.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on June 13, 2020, 10:20:41 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 13, 2020, 09:14:19 PM

This tiny virus could do more to move us toward universal healthcare than Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren put together.

Our country will never pass universal healthcare. Too many monied interests against it, regardless of whether or not it would be better for society as a whole.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 13, 2020, 11:13:52 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on June 13, 2020, 10:20:41 PM

Our country will never pass universal healthcare. Too many monied interests against it, regardless of whether or not it would be better for society as a whole.

I agree with you...but only if you are referring to a single–payer system.

However, I think we will get universal coverage sooner than later, to fill the gap for those who make too much to be eligible for Medicaid but not enough to afford insurance. There will still be private insurance (most of it provided through employers) IMHO.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on June 14, 2020, 08:46:57 AM

Starting from scratch, insurance would never be tied to employment. Somehow we have to find a way to fix this mess.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 14, 2020, 09:04:20 AM

Beijing closes market, locks down area in new virus outbreak

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/06/13/beijing-closes-market-locks-down-area-in-new-virus-outbreak

The largest wholesale food market in Beijing was shuttered behind police guard and the surrounding neighborhood locked down Saturday after more than 50 people tested positive for the coronavirus in the Chinese capital.

The outbreak — coming more than 50 days after the last local case in the city of 20 million people — showed how the virus can still come back as restrictions are eased. The city’s swift response reflected China’s emphasis on moving quickly to stem the spread of new cases wherever they appear, a lesson learned from fighting the outbreak earlier.

—————

I suspect the lower overall numbers in China reflect skewed reporting, but also swift and decisive action when an outbreak occurs.

No – I am not advocating that the US become China, or anything like it. But in times of a public health emergency, swift and decisive action is often critical.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 14, 2020, 11:08:11 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 14, 2020, 09:04:20 AM

Beijing closes market, locks down area in new virus outbreak

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/06/13/beijing-closes-market-locks-down-area-in-new-virus-outbreak

The largest wholesale food market in Beijing was shuttered behind police guard and the surrounding neighborhood locked down Saturday after more than 50 people tested positive for the coronavirus in the Chinese capital.

The outbreak — coming more than 50 days after the last local case in the city of 20 million people — showed how the virus can still come back as restrictions are eased. The city’s swift response reflected China’s emphasis on moving quickly to stem the spread of new cases wherever they appear, a lesson learned from fighting the outbreak earlier.

—————

I suspect the lower overall numbers in China reflect skewed reporting, but also swift and decisive action when an outbreak occurs.

No – I am not advocating that the US become China, or anything like it. But in times of a public health emergency, swift and decisive action is often critical.

I think China is lying to us. Zero cases for over 7 weeks in a very dense city? Hardly. And then 50 cases in that same city in one day? Very dubious.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on June 14, 2020, 01:28:56 PM

Quote from: Jockey on June 14, 2020, 11:08:11 AM

I think China is lying to us. Zero cases for over 7 weeks in a very dense city? Hardly. And then 50 cases in that same city in one day? Very dubious.

I agree no doubt those numbers are even close to real for china especially with how many people they have.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 14, 2020, 07:16:14 PM

Florida:

https://twitter.com/NPR/status/1272173594043453440?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on June 14, 2020, 07:29:09 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on June 14, 2020, 07:16:14 PM

Florida:

https://twitter.com/NPR/status/1272173594043453440?s=19

Ironic this was posted right above a post saying you can’t trust China’s numbers.
I certainly don’t trust Florida’s numbers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 14, 2020, 07:44:36 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on June 14, 2020, 07:29:09 PM

Ironic this was posted right above a post saying you can’t trust China’s numbers.
I certainly don’t trust Florida’s numbers.

Any direct evidence supporting this? Depending on where you sit politically determined whether someone trusts some organizations data over another. So much for science based.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 14, 2020, 08:09:44 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 14, 2020, 07:44:36 PM

Any direct evidence supporting this? Depending on where you sit politically determined whether someone trusts some organizations data over another. So much for science based.

It has been documented that Florida - unlike other states or standard public health reporting practices - is not counting any deaths that occur in people who do not list Florida as their primary residence. As you probably know, Florida has a significant number of such people. And it just happens that many of them are among the highest risk groups.

https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/2020/04/11/floridas-count-of-coronavirus-deaths-is-missing-some-cases/

https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/2020/05/08/blocked-data-floridas-medical-examiners-expose-covid-19-failures-unredacted/3058832001/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 14, 2020, 08:43:58 PM

Opinion from Scott gottleib on reopening/way forward.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-rules-for-covid-summer-be-flexible-and-vigilant-11592167772 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-rules-for-covid-summer-be-flexible-and-vigilant-11592167772)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on June 14, 2020, 09:14:15 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 14, 2020, 08:43:58 PM

Opinion from Scott gottleib on reopening/way forward.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-rules-for-covid-summer-be-flexible-and-vigilant-11592167772 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-rules-for-covid-summer-be-flexible-and-vigilant-11592167772)

Good read and much different than what I have seen from Gottleib.  Much more optimistic about the future

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 15, 2020, 09:08:30 AM

Dr. Scott Gottlieb warns U.S. coronavirus hot spots ‘could quickly get out of control’

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/15/dr-scott-gottlieb-warns-us-coronavirus-hot-spots-could-quickly-get-out-of-control.html

States like Arizona, Texas and Florida that are seeing surges in confirmed cases, as well as spikes in hospitalizations, in some cases should be conducting aggressive contact tracing, Gottlieb said. Contact tracing occurs when trained personnel interview infected individuals to pinpoint where they were infected and to track down others who might have been exposed.

“We’re not going to be able to shut down the country again this summer. We’re probably not going to be able to shut down the country again this fall,” he said on CNBC’s “Squawk Box.” “And so we’re going to need to try to isolate the sources of these outbreaks and take targeted steps. If we can’t do that, these will get out of control.”

---------

Several of us have been beating this drum from the beginning, and yet contact tracing efforts are lacking and variable throughout the country. If CDC hadn't been shoved to the sideline, it could be coordinating a massive (and consistent) contact tracing program that would help keep the country open. But as it looks now, we may still be looking at sporadic opening and closing of cities, states or regions.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 15, 2020, 10:44:04 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 15, 2020, 09:08:30 AM

Dr. Scott Gottlieb warns U.S. coronavirus hot spots ‘could quickly get out of control’

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/15/dr-scott-gottlieb-warns-us-coronavirus-hot-spots-could-quickly-get-out-of-control.html

States like Arizona, Texas and Florida that are seeing surges in confirmed cases, as well as spikes in hospitalizations, in some cases should be conducting aggressive contact tracing, Gottlieb said. Contact tracing occurs when trained personnel interview infected individuals to pinpoint where they were infected and to track down others who might have been exposed.

“We’re not going to be able to shut down the country again this summer. We’re probably not going to be able to shut down the country again this fall,” he said on CNBC’s “Squawk Box.” “And so we’re going to need to try to isolate the sources of these outbreaks and take targeted steps. If we can’t do that, these will get out of control.”

---------

Several of us have been beating this drum from the beginning, and yet contact tracing efforts are lacking and variable throughout the country. If CDC hadn't been shoved to the sideline, it could be coordinating a massive (and consistent) contact tracing program that would help keep the country open. But as it looks now, we may still be looking at sporadic opening and closing of cities, states or regions.

Practically speaking how does one contact trace with all that has gone on the last month or two? Not sure that you can put the type of infrastructure in place to trace the sheer volume of engagement we've seen. Put another way, is the spread so general that tracing is even practical.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 15, 2020, 10:51:03 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 15, 2020, 10:44:04 AM

Practically speaking how does one contact trace with all that has gone on the last month or two? Not sure that you can put the type of infrastructure in place to trace the sheer volume of engagement we've seen. Put another way, is the spread so general that tracing is even practical.

I think the answer is start tracing.

In the ideal sense you get a low(er) level of spread and start from a base where it is more outbreak dependent.  I think the northeast is getting there.  I think some states that had lower spread are getting there.

Wouldn't we be better off doing this on all positive cases...then force their contacts to get tested or ask them to quarantine?  Or is it a more positive result to roll the dice and only have shut-down at our disposal. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 15, 2020, 10:57:18 AM

Maybe I'm being too pessimistic here, but I have my doubts that a lot of these southern states are going to make large investments into things like contact tracing.  I think we have simply made the decision that we are going to Sweden this thing out until we get a vaccine.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 15, 2020, 11:00:45 AM

I don't disagree Fluffer. Early on Scott Gottleib said that this could be an Achilles heel.  We are only as good as the weakest link in this regard.  Then again.  If there is a scare in some places on hospitalization capacity, there is still time to get the infrastructure in place for when it matters most (fall).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 15, 2020, 11:03:31 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 15, 2020, 10:44:04 AM

Practically speaking how does one contact trace with all that has gone on the last month or two?

Maybe have a national leader who cares about dealing with Covid. That is the one thing this country has not tried.

Or maybe takes the shackles off of the CDC and let them do their job.

Or maybe have a gov't that sets up an infrastructure for governors to deal with the problem.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on June 15, 2020, 11:07:36 AM

FWIW, Google and Apple have already done the legwork to enable anonymous contact tracing through our phones, which probable covers 80-90% of US population.  All that needs to happen is for the US government to "bless" an app for us all to authenticate with.  Seems something that the CDC would normally be in charge of.  States don't need to handle it individually.

https://www.wired.com/story/covid-19-contact-tracing-apple-google/

I followed the instructions in the article, and sure enough, and update has been pushed to my phone so that the API is capable of contact tracing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 15, 2020, 11:28:45 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 15, 2020, 11:00:45 AM

I don't disagree Fluffer. Early on Scott Gottleib said that this could be an Achilles heel.  We are only as good as the weakest link in this regard.  Then again.  If there is a scare in some places on hospitalization capacity, there is still time to get the infrastructure in place for when it matters most (fall).

Yep.

But the overall problem is there are too many who don't trust the government, don't trust science, and don't like pointy head types telling us the issue is complex.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on June 15, 2020, 11:52:29 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 15, 2020, 11:28:45 AM

Yep.

But the overall problem is there are too many who don't trust the government, don't trust science, and don't like pointy head types telling us the issue is complex.

FWIW, I don’t think it’s necessarily fair to lump those together. There are plenty of intelligent people who believe and trust science who also aren’t a proponent of increased government oversight/control/tracking

And just to devils advocate further, Google developing “anonymous” contact tracing is kind of amusing given then excessive amount of grey area tracking, cataloging, and documenting personal data they have done for years.

From a pure efficacy standpoint, it’s actually totally beneficial to have a powerful, overarching, and controlling government to handle COVID. My associates in Dubai rave about how it was handled there, but that’s also a place with “normal” daily government intervention so grand it would shock many Americans.  But in more freedom based cultures, it’s a tough sell, and I get it both ways

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 15, 2020, 11:57:30 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on June 15, 2020, 11:52:29 AM

FWIW, I don’t think it’s necessarily fair to lump those together. There are plenty of intelligent people who believe and trust science who also aren’t a proponent of increased government oversight/control/tracking

And just to devils advocate further, Google developing “anonymous” contact tracing is kind of amusing given then excessive amount of grey area tracking, cataloging, and documenting personal data they have done for years.

From a pure efficacy standpoint, it’s actually totally beneficial to have a powerful, overarching, and controlling government to handle COVID. My associates in Dubai rave about how it was handled there, but that’s also a place with “normal” daily government intervention so grand it would shock many Americans.  But in more freedom based cultures, it’s a tough sell, and I get it both ways

It doesnt have to take phone surveillance and tons of money either.  There are a lot of articles in addition to the one linked.  But for those thinking its impossible, they are doing this in Kerala, India.  If they can do it, I am pretty certain it's not an impossibility for us.

https://www.newindianexpress.com/states/kerala/2020/may/21/how-kerala-mastered-the-art-of-contact-tracing-to-fight-covid-19-save-lives-2146294.html (https://www.newindianexpress.com/states/kerala/2020/may/21/how-kerala-mastered-the-art-of-contact-tracing-to-fight-covid-19-save-lives-2146294.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on June 15, 2020, 12:03:01 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on June 15, 2020, 11:07:36 AM

FWIW, Google and Apple have already done the legwork to enable anonymous contact tracing through our phones, which probable covers 80-90% of US population.  All that needs to happen is for the US government to "bless" an app for us all to authenticate with.  Seems something that the CDC would normally be in charge of.  States don't need to handle it individually.

https://www.wired.com/story/covid-19-contact-tracing-apple-google/

I followed the instructions in the article, and sure enough, and update has been pushed to my phone so that the API is capable of contact tracing.

now if only everyone would do this that would help the fight

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on June 15, 2020, 12:04:15 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 15, 2020, 11:00:45 AM

I don't disagree Fluffer. Early on Scott Gottleib said that this could be an Achilles heel.  We are only as good as the weakest link in this regard.  Then again.  If there is a scare in some places on hospitalization capacity, there is still time to get the infrastructure in place for when it matters most (fall).

Welcome to Florida, , achilles heel of the US.  Universal's water park opening.
https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/photos-of-crowds-at-universal-orlandos-volcano-bay-spark-concern/
(https://images.foxtv.com/static.fox35orlando.com/www.fox35orlando.com/content/uploads/2020/06/932/524/Volcano-1.jpg)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on June 15, 2020, 12:14:57 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on June 15, 2020, 11:52:29 AM

FWIW, I don’t think it’s necessarily fair to lump those together. There are plenty of intelligent people who believe and trust science who also aren’t a proponent of increased government oversight/control/tracking

And just to devils advocate further, Google developing “anonymous” contact tracing is kind of amusing given then excessive amount of grey area tracking, cataloging, and documenting personal data they have done for years.

From a pure efficacy standpoint, it’s actually totally beneficial to have a powerful, overarching, and controlling government to handle COVID. My associates in Dubai rave about how it was handled there, but that’s also a place with “normal” daily government intervention so grand it would shock many Americans.  But in more freedom based cultures, it’s a tough sell, and I get it both ways

Liberal democracies have also adopted the phone contact tracing.  The Australians are participating in massive numbers.  Probably not by mistake their death rates are so much lower than ours despite being a travel destination,  has a large Chinese/Asian minority, dense cities, etc..

We have handled is pandemic terribly and now a technology can help us managing contact tracing and we are concerned about losing some freedom?  Not good.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 15, 2020, 12:21:37 PM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on June 15, 2020, 12:14:57 PM

Liberal democracies have also adopted the phone contact tracing.  The Australians are participating in massive numbers.  Probably not by mistake their death rates are so much lower than ours despite being a travel destination,  has a large Chinese/Asian minority, dense cities, etc..

We have handled is pandemic terribly and now a technology can help us managing contact tracing and we are concerned about losing some freedom?  Not good.

Has any state tried this technology? If not I wonder why that is. I mean, what about NYC?

I think there are a ton of privacy concerns here but if it can make a difference, just like masks, I'm all for it. What I can't figure out is why people outside of this board haven't figured this out.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 15, 2020, 12:25:10 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 15, 2020, 12:21:37 PM

Has any state tried this technology? If not I wonder why that is. I mean, what about NYC?

I think there are a ton of privacy concerns here but if it can make a difference, just like masks, I'm all for it. What I can't figure out is why people outside of this board haven't figured this out.

After seeing Rocky's article, I just investigated my state.  They are opting for a more personal touch because of 'privacy concerns'.  So they traded better info for hopefully more people opting in and volunteering info when called by a tracer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on June 15, 2020, 12:40:17 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on June 15, 2020, 11:07:36 AM

FWIW, Google and Apple have already done the legwork to enable anonymous contact tracing through our phones, which probable covers 80-90% of US population.  All that needs to happen is for the US government to "bless" an app for us all to authenticate with.  Seems something that the CDC would normally be in charge of.  States don't need to handle it individually.

https://www.wired.com/story/covid-19-contact-tracing-apple-google/

I followed the instructions in the article, and sure enough, and update has been pushed to my phone so that the API is capable of contact tracing.

Just investigated... my google pixel is capable of tracing. Now where do we easily/quickly find info about our states' decision on an app?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 15, 2020, 01:33:24 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 15, 2020, 10:44:04 AM

Practically speaking how does one contact trace with all that has gone on the last month or two? Not sure that you can put the type of infrastructure in place to trace the sheer volume of engagement we've seen. Put another way, is the spread so general that tracing is even practical.

We are certainly WAY behind where we should be because Trump has handcuffed the CDC. Still, if we were seriously ramping up efforts, we could catch some of the spread. And more important, when it surges again in the fall (and it will), we would have the infrastructure in place to stop it faster.

It all depends on whether the guy at the top lets the experts do their jobs....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 15, 2020, 02:12:17 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 15, 2020, 01:33:24 PM

We are certainly WAY behind where we should be because Trump has handcuffed the CDC. Still, if we were seriously ramping up efforts, we could catch some of the spread. And more important, when it surges again in the fall (and it will), we would have the infrastructure in place to stop it faster.

It all depends on whether the guy at the top lets the experts do their jobs....

I don't disagree with a coordinated federal component, but nothing is stopping from the states from executing a tracing effort is there?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 15, 2020, 02:55:28 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 15, 2020, 02:12:17 PM

I don't disagree with a coordinated federal component, but nothing is stopping from the states from executing a tracing effort is there?

Most states around me are trying from what I understand.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 15, 2020, 05:54:19 PM

If we stopped testing right now, we’d have very few cases.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 15, 2020, 06:19:19 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 15, 2020, 02:12:17 PM

I don't disagree with a coordinated federal component, but nothing is stopping from the states from executing a tracing effort is there?

Most states or local public health authorities are trying, but they're figuring out how to do it from scratch, while the CDC has been doing it for years. So we could either have the A+ product from CDC, or a patchwork of anything from A+ to D- products around the country.

And even if a given state could come close to what the experts at CDC could do, there is still the limitation on contacts who move from state to state, or region to region within a state. A nationally-coordinated contact tracing effort could deal with that easily; a patchwork of differing state and local solutions might not be able to.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on June 15, 2020, 06:32:51 PM

Quote from: Jockey on June 15, 2020, 05:54:19 PM

If we stopped testing right now, we’d have very few cases.

What? Nobody is saying that. Absurdist arguments help nothing in this discussion

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on June 15, 2020, 06:38:48 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on June 15, 2020, 06:32:51 PM

What? Nobody is saying that. Absurdist arguments help nothing in this discussion

Uhh, the leader of the free world said it like 3 hours ago.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on June 15, 2020, 06:45:07 PM

Quote from: Jockey on June 15, 2020, 05:54:19 PM

If we stopped testing right now, we’d have very few cases.

Quote from: JWags85 on June 15, 2020, 06:32:51 PM

What? Nobody is saying that. Absurdist arguments help nothing in this discussion

Quote from: reinko on June 15, 2020, 06:38:48 PM

Uhh, the leader of the free world said it like 3 hours ago.

Today’s reality in three posts.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on June 15, 2020, 06:45:35 PM

Quote from: reinko on June 15, 2020, 06:38:48 PM

Uhh, the leader of the free world said it like 3 hours ago.

I’m talking in here. Constantly dragging Trump into the convo here does is create more political mud flinging. Which I suppose is exactly what was intended.

Quote from: pbiflyer on June 15, 2020, 06:45:07 PM

Today’s reality in three posts.

**Sorted out***

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on June 15, 2020, 06:47:56 PM

NM

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on June 15, 2020, 07:24:01 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on June 15, 2020, 06:45:35 PM

I’m talking in here. Constantly dragging Trump into the convo here does is create more political mud flinging. Which I suppose is exactly what was intended.

Oh get bent you pretentious ass. Look through any of my previous posts and find that I’m not some MAGA moron and have been vocal in wishing for the COVID threads to be more topical.

Um, wow. I think you misunderstood my post. It certainly wasn’t a comment about you.
It was the general conversation represented today pretty well.
Someone posts something so outrageous that it is legitimately dismissed, but yet turns out that it was something the potus actually said.
That is all. Sorry if that did not come across clearly enough.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 15, 2020, 07:33:28 PM

New projection puts U.S. COVID-19 deaths at over 200,000 by October

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-deaths-idUSKBN23M32C

A new forecast projects 201,129 deaths due to COVID-19 in the United States through the beginning of October mainly due to reopening measures under way, the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME) at the University of Washington said on Monday.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on June 15, 2020, 07:34:02 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on June 15, 2020, 07:24:01 PM

Um, wow. I think you misunderstood my post. It certainly wasn’t a comment about you.
It was the general conversation represented today pretty well.
Someone posts something so outrageous that it is legitimately dismissed, but yet turns out that it was something the potus actually said.
That is all. Sorry if that did not come across clearly enough.

Fair enough. It’s gotten so tribal in here it’s hard to tell sometimes, and lines being drawn hastily. All good

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 15, 2020, 07:42:29 PM

This is a good balanced article about the many reasons the hospitals in NYC were able to handle the surge which can be informative for some cities today and all areas in the fall.

 https://www.propublica.org/article/how-americas-hospitals-survived-the-first-wave-of-the-coronavirus/amp?__twitter_impression=true (https://www.propublica.org/article/how-americas-hospitals-survived-the-first-wave-of-the-coronavirus/amp?__twitter_impression=true)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 15, 2020, 07:58:13 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on June 15, 2020, 06:45:35 PM

I’m talking in here. Constantly dragging Trump into the convo here does is create more political mud flinging. Which I suppose is exactly what was intended.

**Sorted out***

It does get tiresome, but it is the reality.

118,000+ dead. More dying every day. New hot spots popping up. No Federal leadership whatsoever. If we weren't so used to this garbage, the outcry would be deafening.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 15, 2020, 08:01:06 PM

Quote from: Jockey on June 15, 2020, 07:58:13 PM

It does get tiresome, but it is the reality.

118,000+ dead. More dying every day. New hot spots popping up. No Federal leadership whatsoever. If we weren't so used to this garbage, the outcry would be deafening.

Maybe if you brought up policy instead of saying the same thing about a person again and again it wouldn’t be as tiresome.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 15, 2020, 08:31:47 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 15, 2020, 08:01:06 PM

Maybe if you brought up policy instead of saying the same thing about a person again and again it wouldn’t be as tiresome.

I would love to talk policy. You tell me what our national policy is and I will be happy to discuss it.

Except we have none.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 15, 2020, 08:37:53 PM

Quote from: Jockey on June 15, 2020, 08:31:47 PM

I would love to talk policy. You tell me what our national policy is and I will be happy to discuss it.

Except we have none.

We have a policy and you can choose to debate it.  If you want to make flip comments about a person over and over, I would humbly suggest this isnt the place for it. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 15, 2020, 08:42:10 PM

Quote from: Jockey on June 15, 2020, 08:31:47 PM

I would love to talk policy. You tell me what our national policy is and I will be happy to discuss it.

Except we have none.

Then perhaps you should retire yourself from this topic if you can’t say anything but the same political statements you’ve been making for weeks now.

We all know the problem. We all know where you stand. Nothing you say at this point breaks new ground.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 15, 2020, 09:13:41 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 15, 2020, 08:42:10 PM

Then perhaps you should retire yourself from this topic if you can’t say anything but the same political statements you’ve been making for weeks now.

We all know the problem. We all know where you stand. Nothing you say at this point breaks new ground.

So you guys can't give me a policy?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 15, 2020, 09:19:15 PM

Quote from: Jockey on June 15, 2020, 09:13:41 PM

So you guys can't give me a policy?

Health wise
- States are in charge
- Get a vaccine quick as that is the only solution
- Epidemic is being overblown


Economic wise
- make a temporary as possible
- give money to people in phase one
- push fed to lend
- keep businesses viable and hope for quick SnapBack

Political
- hope for the summer lull
- get people to vote
- hope the vaccine comes before second wave or election

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 15, 2020, 09:30:32 PM

......

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on June 15, 2020, 09:37:05 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 15, 2020, 09:19:15 PM

Health wise
- States are in charge
- Get a vaccine quick as that is the only solution
- Epidemic is being overblown


Economic wise
- make a temporary as possible
- give money to people in phase one
- push fed to lend
- keep businesses viable and hope for quick SnapBack

Political
- hope for the summer lull
- get people to vote
- hope the vaccine comes before second wave or election

That’s a depressing plan if that is the best they can come up with.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 15, 2020, 09:44:47 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on June 15, 2020, 09:37:05 PM

That’s a depressing plan if that is the best they can come up with.

Pence to Gov’s from NY Times

Pence urged governors to echo a misleading claim about infection spikes.
Vice President Mike Pence encouraged governors on Monday to adopt the administration’s claim that increased testing helps account for the new coronavirus outbreak reports, even though evidence has shown that the explanation is misleading.

On a call with the governors, audio of which was obtained by The New York Times, Mr. Pence urged them “to continue to explain to your citizens the magnitude of the increase in testing” in addressing the new outbreaks.

And he asked them to “encourage people with the news that we’re safely reopening the country.”

In fact, seven-day averages in several states with outbreaks have increased since May 31, and in at least 14 states, the positive case rate is increasing faster than the increase in the average number of tests, according to an analysis of data collected by The New York Times.

The vice president played down the overall size of the outbreaks, stressing that some states were seeing what he called “intermittent” spikes of the virus.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 15, 2020, 09:59:15 PM

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6924e2.htm?s_cid=mm6924e2_w (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6924e2.htm?s_cid=mm6924e2_w)

Shelter the aged and at risk and continue the responsible and measured opening of the economy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 15, 2020, 10:21:46 PM

Wear a mask:

https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1272597258404495360?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on June 15, 2020, 10:28:49 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on June 15, 2020, 09:30:32 PM

......

I know they are trying to paint the US in a negative light compared to the other 3, but Italy and Spain both still have COVID deaths per million at a rate 60-65% higher than the US.

 

Quote from: mu03eng on June 15, 2020, 09:59:15 PM

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6924e2.htm?s_cid=mm6924e2_w (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6924e2.htm?s_cid=mm6924e2_w)

Shelter the aged and at risk and continue the responsible and measured opening of the economy.

Absolutely. And stop the unnecessary focus on “new cases” and focus on hospitalizations/deaths in the absolute, not misrepresentative metrics like “150% increase in hospitalizations” when an area goes from 2 to 5 hospitalizations

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on June 15, 2020, 11:06:26 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on June 15, 2020, 10:28:49 PM

I know they are trying to paint the US in a negative light compared to the other 3, but Italy and Spain both still have COVID deaths per million at a rate 60-65% higher than the US.

 
Absolutely. And stop the unnecessary focus on “new cases” and focus on hospitalizations/deaths in the absolute, not misrepresentative metrics like “150% increase in hospitalizations” when an area goes from 2 to 5 hospitalizations

States that opened early are starting to see record high rates of hospitalizations. Others have simply stayed at the peak (flat). That is decidedly different than Italy and Spain.

Also, Italy and Spain have substantially older populations. Despite that, unless something changes, we will pass everyone (well maybe not Belgium) in deaths per capita. That is despite the evidence that we are undercounting considerably, as we have substantial excess deaths that cannot be accounted for by the reported CoVID deaths alone.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 15, 2020, 11:44:08 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 15, 2020, 09:59:15 PM

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6924e2.htm?s_cid=mm6924e2_w (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6924e2.htm?s_cid=mm6924e2_w)

Shelter the aged and at risk and continue the responsible and measured opening of the economy.

The aged and “at risk”? Per CDC, the “at risk” group is awfully large.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/people-at-higher-risk.html

People of all ages with underlying medical conditions, particularly if not well controlled, including:

People with chronic lung disease or moderate to severe asthma

People who have serious heart conditions

People who are immunocompromised
Many conditions can cause a person to be immunocompromised, including cancer treatment, smoking, bone marrow or organ transplantation, immune deficiencies, poorly controlled HIV or AIDS, and prolonged use of corticosteroids and other immune weakening medications

People with severe obesity (body mass index [BMI] of 40 or higher)

People with diabetes

People with chronic kidney disease undergoing dialysis

People with liver disease


————————-

Pretty slim pickings after that. Oh, and research is suggesting that having type A blood might put you at higher risk. That is about a third of the population.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 16, 2020, 07:33:15 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 15, 2020, 11:44:08 PM

Pretty slim pickings after that. Oh, and research is suggesting that having type A blood might put you at higher risk. That is about a third of the population.

Yeah, I'm not going to believe that until I see a lot more study/analysis. The fact that a third of the population has type A blood means it could be a simple statistical variance of A types getting/having worse outcomes that has no correlation.

And do you really want to plan assuming that A types are going to die if they get it, because if you do then you should be advocating for lockdown until vaccine.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 16, 2020, 07:41:34 AM

I think the fact that we are attacking this state by state and region by region is a fascinating real time study of the disease. Somebody is going to have explain why states that had a controlled open are potentially fairing worse than a state like Wisconsin is doing ok. We're going to have to figure out whether opening, protests, other factors, or some combination of these things is leading to the increase in cases. As an example, Texas started opening up at the beginning of May and they are seeing an increase now.....even if you open the variance to its widest point (two weeks to symptoms and two weeks to hospitalization for everyone) you'd be hard pressed to see this as a result of opening. It is a very curious thing and I really wish we weren't politicizing the data one way or the other. Need to create hypothesis and test them against the data and that's the conclusion.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on June 16, 2020, 07:43:16 AM

Michigan kicking butt right now.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 16, 2020, 07:48:37 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 16, 2020, 07:41:34 AM

I think the fact that we are attacking this state by state and region by region is a fascinating real time study of the disease. Somebody is going to have explain why states that had a controlled open are potentially fairing worse than a state like Wisconsin is doing ok. We're going to have to figure out whether opening, protests, other factors, or some combination of these things is leading to the increase in cases. As an example, Texas started opening up at the beginning of May and they are seeing an increase now.....even if you open the variance to its widest point (two weeks to symptoms and two weeks to hospitalization for everyone) you'd be hard pressed to see this as a result of opening. It is a very curious thing and I really wish we weren't politicizing the data one way or the other. Need to create hypothesis and test them against the data and that's the conclusion.

I heard an interesting theory yesterday.  Southern states are heading inside and spending more time in A/C and windows closed.  Northern states spending more time outside.  Could also be a reason why the reverse was true early.

I personally wouldnt over-attribute the day the re-opening starts.  The fact that this needs people to people contact (which increases daily when shut-downs end) and clearly needs a lot of spread before it becomes a problem for hospitals, means it likely takes a month plus of unknown spread before you see a 'hot spot'.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 16, 2020, 08:33:45 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 16, 2020, 07:33:15 AM

Yeah, I'm not going to believe that until I see a lot more study/analysis. The fact that a third of the population has type A blood means it could be a simple statistical variance of A types getting/having worse outcomes that has no correlation.

And do you really want to plan assuming that A types are going to die if they get it, because if you do then you should be advocating for lockdown until vaccine.

I agree that we need to see more before we definitively conclude anything about blood types. My point is just that distinguishing high-risk from low-risk is not nearly as easy as you seem to think.

As to blood types FWIW, there have been several independent studies that all seem to be coming to the same conclusion. The following article lists a handful (including one that was peer-reviewed) that came to the same result:

https://cen.acs.org/biological-chemistry/infectious-disease/Genetic-study-suggests-peoples-blood/98/i23

Maybe it turns into nothing, but it is at least worth watching.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 16, 2020, 08:58:22 AM

COVID-19 test costs...bringing the video receipts:

https://twitter.com/RepKatiePorter/status/1272624118920290304?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 16, 2020, 09:00:44 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 16, 2020, 07:48:37 AM

I heard an interesting theory yesterday.  Southern states are heading inside and spending more time in A/C and windows closed.  Northern states spending more time outside.  Could also be a reason why the reverse was true early.

I personally wouldnt over-attribute the day the re-opening starts.  The fact that this needs people to people contact (which increases daily when shut-downs end) and clearly needs a lot of spread before it becomes a problem for hospitals, means it likely takes a month plus of unknown spread before you see a 'hot spot'.

I was thinking similar.  We'll just have to wait a few weeks after super summer heat finally shows up here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on June 16, 2020, 09:25:00 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 16, 2020, 09:00:44 AM

I was thinking similar.  We'll just have to wait a few weeks after super summer heat finally shows up here.

I doubt this is the case. Wouldn't Florida have seasonal flu spikes in the summer? We don't.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on June 16, 2020, 09:46:52 AM

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300035945/coronavirus-two-women-who-travelled-to-nz-from-the-uk-test-positive-for-covid19

Two New Zealand citizens who returned from the UK and were released early from manadatory quarantine to attend their mother’s funeral tested positive for Covid. One had mild symptoms but attributed  them to a pre-existing condition and one was asymptomatic. Residents are wondering why they weren’t tested before being released from quarantine.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 16, 2020, 09:50:51 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 16, 2020, 08:33:45 AM

I agree that we need to see more before we definitively conclude anything about blood types. My point is just that distinguishing high-risk from low-risk is not nearly as easy as you seem to think.

As to blood types FWIW, there have been several independent studies that all seem to be coming to the same conclusion. The following article lists a handful (including one that was peer-reviewed) that came to the same result:

https://cen.acs.org/biological-chemistry/infectious-disease/Genetic-study-suggests-peoples-blood/98/i23

Maybe it turns into nothing, but it is at least worth watching.

Identifying the risk factors is actually really straight forward as you've largely identified them. As you have more risk factors and modified by your behavior that gives you an idea of what your risk is for A) contracting it and B) the likely impact if you do contract it. We have enough data to model that and basically do a risk calculator for people. I'd be very interested in a Google project or WebMD or something along those lines to allow me to go determine my risk model.

As to the blood type, if you read the article you linked and the supporting articles the blood type is very likely a correlation but not causation.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on June 16, 2020, 09:55:07 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 16, 2020, 07:48:37 AM

I heard an interesting theory yesterday.  Southern states are heading inside and spending more time in A/C and windows closed.  Northern states spending more time outside.  Could also be a reason why the reverse was true early.

I personally wouldnt over-attribute the day the re-opening starts.  The fact that this needs people to people contact (which increases daily when shut-downs end) and clearly needs a lot of spread before it becomes a problem for hospitals, means it likely takes a month plus of unknown spread before you see a 'hot spot'.

I think people are working hard to find reasons beyond the obvious. Southern states have less buy in on things like wearing masks. The result, more cases.

I think that is reason number 1, particularly as it relates to young people who are a vector of spread.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on June 16, 2020, 10:35:33 AM

Quote from: forgetful on June 16, 2020, 09:55:07 AM

I think people are working hard to find reasons beyond the obvious. Southern states have less buy in on things like wearing masks. The result, more cases.

I think that is reason number 1, particularly as it relates to young people who are a vector of spread.

There was an event here on Sunday that culminated with about 300 people in a bar (outdoor at least) celebrating without masks. And we had our highest reported cases day ever this past week for our county.  I suspect it will get higher in the coming weeks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 16, 2020, 11:06:21 AM

Wear a mask:


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/16/health/coronavirus-toilets-flushing.html#click=https://t.co/nQDCSbVeWu

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 16, 2020, 11:11:22 AM

All of these studies really make the rest of my non-corona life seem so much more disgusting

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 16, 2020, 11:26:33 AM

Quote from: forgetful on June 16, 2020, 09:55:07 AM

I think people are working hard to find reasons beyond the obvious. Southern states have less buy in on things like wearing masks. The result, more cases.

I think that is reason number 1, particularly as it relates to young people who are a vector of spread.

Now explain California and Washington state.

The point I'm making is this is a multi-faceted issue and the reductive nature of the discourse(its cause we opened up, yeah but protests, no it's really young people, etc. Etc etc) is part of the problem.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 16, 2020, 11:37:36 AM

Checking in on Florida:

https://twitter.com/MikeVorkunov/status/1272924457393442818?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on June 16, 2020, 12:05:22 PM

We just need to learn to live with Covid-19.  It is not going away anytime soon and I do not see us going back to lockdown. 
This is where a unified country would be nice.   

Still cannot believe Trump did not come out for press conferences with a MAGA mask on.  That right there would have made this a whole different story

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on June 16, 2020, 12:05:53 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 16, 2020, 11:26:33 AM

Now explain California and Washington state.

The point I'm making is this is a multi-faceted issue and the reductive nature of the discourse(its cause we opened up, yeah but protests, no it's really young people, etc. Etc etc) is part of the problem.

I never said there was only 1 reason. But looking for things like AC to explain the south, is a stretch. There is an obvious reason for why the south is seeing increased cases.

For states like California and Washington, we need far more data than I have access to. I know some of the hot spots in California are in rural counties, where again buy in on masks is limited. You also have a large number of people that are now returning to work, that must take mass transit. There are a variety of factors at play and one needs very localized data on hot spots (which isn't always available) to discern the effects.

Large swaths of the south though have a glaring obvious answer. People refuse to wear masks, the single most effective way to limit the spread of the disease.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 16, 2020, 12:30:31 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on June 16, 2020, 12:05:22 PM

We just need to learn to live with Covid-19.  It is not going away anytime soon and I do not see us going back to lockdown. 
This is where a unified country would be nice. 

As long as the hospitals don't get overrun.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 16, 2020, 12:46:57 PM

Wasn't the heat and sun supposed to eradicate this? I'm not saying this to be snarky. I know Trump and others were saying this as a fact when actually it was more hope than anything, but lots of "experts" were saying it, too.

And yet,  the worst situations right now when I look at my handy-dandy "coronavirus reopening map" seem to be in Arizona, Nevada, Arkansas, Alabama, South Carolina, Florida, North Carolina and Louisiana.

I don't think it's a coincidence that, by and large, this generally is "Eff the masks and social distancing" territory, but I allow that I could be wrong.

As someone pointed out, Wash and Oregon look to be trending worse, too, though their arrows aren't pointing up as sharply as the others.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 16, 2020, 12:47:28 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 16, 2020, 09:50:51 AM

Identifying the risk factors is actually really straight forward as you've largely identified them. As you have more risk factors and modified by your behavior that gives you an idea of what your risk is for A) contracting it and B) the likely impact if you do contract it. We have enough data to model that and basically do a risk calculator for people. I'd be very interested in a Google project or WebMD or something along those lines to allow me to go determine my risk model.

As to the blood type, if you read the article you linked and the supporting articles the blood type is very likely a correlation but not causation.

Correct - I never said otherwise. But if the correlation proves correct, it would still mean type A people are at higher risk of contracting the virus, and of more severe illness.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 16, 2020, 01:53:38 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 16, 2020, 12:47:28 PM

Correct - I never said otherwise. But if the correlation proves correct, it would still mean type A people are at higher risk of contracting the virus, and of more severe illness.

I wake up every morning and the sun also rises in the east every morning, the correlation is correct but it don't mean $hit :)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 16, 2020, 01:56:49 PM

Quote from: forgetful on June 16, 2020, 12:05:53 PM

I never said there was only 1 reason. But looking for things like AC to explain the south, is a stretch. There is an obvious reason for why the south is seeing increased cases.

For states like California and Washington, we need far more data than I have access to. I know some of the hot spots in California are in rural counties, where again buy in on masks is limited. You also have a large number of people that are now returning to work, that must take mass transit. There are a variety of factors at play and one needs very localized data on hot spots (which isn't always available) to discern the effects.

Large swaths of the south though have a glaring obvious answer. People refuse to wear masks, the single most effective way to limit the spread of the disease.

Here is where you lose me every time.....when the data sets match your hypothesis it's tied to a single root cause (masks) when the data sets don't match your hypothesis it's tied to all sorts of root causes that can't be separated ("variety of factors at play").

Maybe you don't realize it, but you can't separate your political narrative from your situational analysis (you have a conclusion in your head and you are fitting the data to match that conclusion)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 16, 2020, 02:10:05 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 16, 2020, 01:53:38 PM

I wake up every morning and the sun also rises in the east every morning, the correlation is correct but it don't mean $hit :)

You obviously don't understand medical risk factors. They are simply identifiable traits, behaviors or other factors that make someone more susceptible than the average person. So it doesn't matter if it's causative or correlative - a risk factor is a risk factor. And thus far, the data seems to show that having type A blood might be a risk factor for covid.

And seriously - do you think the person on his or her deathbed from covid really gives a $hit if he is about to die from covid because he was obese vs having type A blood? Seriously?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 16, 2020, 02:16:25 PM

Quote from: MU82 on June 16, 2020, 12:46:57 PM

Wasn't the heat and sun supposed to eradicate this? I'm not saying this to be snarky. I know Trump and others were saying this as a fact when actually it was more hope than anything, but lots of "experts" were saying it, too.

And yet,  the worst situations right now when I look at my handy-dandy "coronavirus reopening map" seem to be in Arizona, Nevada, Arkansas, Alabama, South Carolina, Florida, North Carolina and Louisiana.

I don't think it's a coincidence that, by and large, this generally is "Eff the masks and social distancing" territory, but I allow that I could be wrong.

As someone pointed out, Wash and Oregon look to be trending worse, too, though their arrows aren't pointing up as sharply as the others.

Everyone is assuming that because if it isn't true the places where there were protests are unnatural carnal knowledge$D. Honestly, there is no evidence that outdoor transmission is much of a thing (mask protests, only one infection as the result of the Ozarks Memorial Day fiasco, beaches and parks being open for a couple of months, etc).

I honestly can't say why these regions are going up because the data we have access to is inconclusive or missing:
-The increase is both with early open states(Texas) and late open states (Washington)
-I've seen no data on the consistency/usage of masks
-I've seen no data on outbreaks from outdoor versus indoor sources
-Limited demographic breakdown of the current outbreak (ie who is getting infected and/or hospitalized).
etc

But ultimately this is why I'm fighting all the various narratives because we just don't know and the narratives are largely driven along political lines. A couple of hypothesis off the top of my head:
1. It takes at least 6 weeks from "paradigm shift" (re-opening, protests, etc) for it to show up in the infection/hospitalization rates
2. There are individual/localized hot spots that are triggering overall numbers to go up but not indicative of some paradigm shift
3. We've had a series of events that have created a growth funnel for infection that continually builds the infection rate (reopening, then memorial day weekend, then protests, then.....)
4. There is a mutated strain lose in these areas that is at least more infectious or resistant to our counter measures than we realize
5. Compliance exhaustion.....people are taking less and less precautions and being less diligent in their activities because it's been 4 months and/or they think it's passed/overblown.
6. Some combination of all of the above
7. Something I haven't thought of.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 16, 2020, 02:21:54 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 16, 2020, 02:16:25 PM

Everyone is assuming that because if it isn't true the places where there were protests are unnatural carnal knowledge$D. Honestly, there is no evidence that outdoor transmission is much of a thing (mask protests, only one infection as the result of the Ozarks Memorial Day fiasco, beaches and parks being open for a couple of months, etc).

I honestly can't say why these regions are going up because the data we have access to is inconclusive or missing:
-The increase is both with early open states(Texas) and late open states (Washington)
-I've seen no data on the consistency/usage of masks
-I've seen no data on outbreaks from outdoor versus indoor sources
-Limited demographic breakdown of the current outbreak (ie who is getting infected and/or hospitalized).
etc

But ultimately this is why I'm fighting all the various narratives because we just don't know and the narratives are largely driven along political lines. A couple of hypothesis off the top of my head:
1. It takes at least 6 weeks from "paradigm shift" (re-opening, protests, etc) for it to show up in the infection/hospitalization rates
2. There are individual/localized hot spots that are triggering overall numbers to go up but not indicative of some paradigm shift
3. We've had a series of events that have created a growth funnel for infection that continually builds the infection rate (reopening, then memorial day weekend, then protests, then.....)
4. There is a mutated strain lose in these areas that is at least more infectious or resistant to our counter measures than we realize
5. Compliance exhaustion.....people are taking less and less precautions and being less diligent in their activities because it's been 4 months and/or they think it's passed/overblown.
6. Some combination of all of the above
7. Something I haven't thought of.

Nicely articulated, mu03.

I'm hoping there will be a point where we have more answers than questions ... if not for this pandemic, then the next one. Because there will be a next one.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 16, 2020, 02:28:02 PM

Eng no one knows for certain — Your hypotheses probably have some truth in them.  If there is a group that should have a POV, it’s the CDC. 

Truthfully the only thing that keeps coming up everywhere as a risk reducer is wear a mask.

My guess is the doctors figure out better treatments before we figure out the best public policy to battle this. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 16, 2020, 02:44:10 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 16, 2020, 02:10:05 PM

You obviously don't understand medical risk factors. They are simply identifiable traits, behaviors or other factors that make someone more susceptible than the average person. So it doesn't matter if it's causative or correlative - a risk factor is a risk factor. And thus far, the data seems to show that having type A blood might be a risk factor for covid.

And seriously - do you think the person on his or her deathbed from covid really gives a $hit if he is about to die from covid because he was obese vs having type A blood? Seriously?

Not sure what your last line has anything to do with anything I said, but I would find it unlikely that a dying patient will care.

medical risk factors are the same as any other risk factor....statistical probability that having condition A will result in outcome B.

My point is that there are so many mechanisms of risk that are encompassed in blood type it may not be blood type that determines the outcome or that a certain blood type has higher risk than another. As an example from the article, Type A people have Type B antigens and vice versa while Type O has both, and perhaps transmission from one person of a blood type to person of another type is less prevalent/severe than transmission between two people of the same blood type. In that scenario the fact that someone has Type A only matters in that if they get infected by someone with Type A blood their viral load or whatever is higher than if they were infected by someone with B or O types.

Simply put, I'm highly skeptical, based on the data analysis I've seen, that in the long run it will turn out that the virus attacks people with Type A more than any other blood type. Is there a mechanism based on blood type that impacts transmission in some way, seems logical but I haven't stayed in a Holiday Inn Express recently. This is why correlation versus causation is so important.

More people of Type A blood have been infected than others (of confirmed infections) is that because Type A is riskier or is that because more Type As came in contact with Type As or is there no difference is transmission and Type As for some reason experience worst outcomes than any other blood type (your theory). Don't know, but there is definitely not enough evidence to say anything conclusively and add it to the list of risk factors.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 16, 2020, 02:49:55 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 16, 2020, 02:28:02 PM

Eng no one knows for certain — Your hypotheses probably have some truth in them.  If there is a group that should have a POV, it’s the CDC. 

Truthfully the only thing that keeps coming up everywhere as a risk reducer is wear a mask.

My guess is the doctors figure out better treatments before we figure out the best public policy to battle this.

I agree, universal mask wearing is critical, especially indoors. Look at the SportClips in Missouri or the fact that grocery stores aren't seeing significant outbreaks. It's also why I won't eat or drink indoors at a restaurant....that activity by definition increases the amount of mechanisms of transmissions (droplets and aerosol).

In the good news category, I do think doctors are starting to figure out how to treat this. Conversion of infections to hospitalizations (even when adjusting for testing volume) is lower now than it was in March and Conversion of hospitalizations to deaths is lower now than it was in March. I don't think it's because the virus is mutating but what do I know.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 16, 2020, 02:55:34 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 16, 2020, 02:49:55 PM

In the good news category, I do think doctors are starting to figure out how to treat this. Conversion of infections to hospitalizations (even when adjusting for testing volume) is lower now than it was in March and Conversion of hospitalizations to deaths is lower now than it was in March. I don't think it's because the virus is mutating but what do I know.

Scott Gottlieb has been super vocal that it is treatment based.  His opinion is the biggest learning/breakthrough thus far has been the early scanning for blood clots & immediate treatment with blood thinners, etc (of course steroids may make things better if proven effective). .

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 16, 2020, 03:11:28 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 16, 2020, 02:44:10 PM

Not sure what your last line has anything to do with anything I said, but I would find it unlikely that a dying patient will care.

medical risk factors are the same as any other risk factor....statistical probability that having condition A will result in outcome B.

My point is that there are so many mechanisms of risk that are encompassed in blood type it may not be blood type that determines the outcome or that a certain blood type has higher risk than another. As an example from the article, Type A people have Type B antigens and vice versa while Type O has both, and perhaps transmission from one person of a blood type to person of another type is less prevalent/severe than transmission between two people of the same blood type. In that scenario the fact that someone has Type A only matters in that if they get infected by someone with Type A blood their viral load or whatever is higher than if they were infected by someone with B or O types.

Simply put, I'm highly skeptical, based on the data analysis I've seen, that in the long run it will turn out that the virus attacks people with Type A more than any other blood type. Is there a mechanism based on blood type that impacts transmission in some way, seems logical but I haven't stayed in a Holiday Inn Express recently. This is why correlation versus causation is so important.

More people of Type A blood have been infected than others (of confirmed infections) is that because Type A is riskier or is that because more Type As came in contact with Type As or is there no difference is transmission and Type As for some reason experience worst outcomes than any other blood type (your theory). Don't know, but there is definitely not enough evidence to say anything conclusively and add it to the list of risk factors.

I have said from the beginning that we don't yet have enough evidence...but if it proves to be true, the debate about correlation vs causation will be a distinction without a difference.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 16, 2020, 03:14:45 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 16, 2020, 02:55:34 PM

Scott Gottlieb has been super vocal that it is treatment based.  His opinion is the biggest learning/breakthrough thus far has been the early scanning for blood clots & immediate treatment with blood thinners, etc (of course steroids may make things better if proven effective). .

Absolutely. Those things, plus avoiding mechanical ventilation if at all possible, have very likely decreased the rates of death and other serious morbidity. And if the dexamethasone proves as helpful as it appeared in the British study, that will be another huge step forward.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on June 16, 2020, 03:35:53 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 16, 2020, 01:56:49 PM

Here is where you lose me every time.....when the data sets match your hypothesis it's tied to a single root cause (masks) when the data sets don't match your hypothesis it's tied to all sorts of root causes that can't be separated ("variety of factors at play").

Maybe you don't realize it, but you can't separate your political narrative from your situational analysis (you have a conclusion in your head and you are fitting the data to match that conclusion)

From data I've seen, the best way to mitigate the spread of CoVID-19 is to have everyone wear masks. It is not a political narrative at all, it is sound scientifically guided models of spread.

No matter what state you are in, the most likely reason for increased spread is due to non-compliance and vigilance in mask wearing. It is also fact, that sadly, mask wearing has become a political issue, and in most states where we are seeing a rapid increase in cases, mask compliance is poor.

Regarding Washington and California. Right now the worst regions of Washington in terms of case increases, is in Eastern Washington, where political demographics contrast that of western Washington/Seattle. In California, they have also seen severe increases in rural red-counties, but LA county has also been hit hard.

In most states where increases have been significantly noted, you also see a shift in the demographics of the people being infected. With most new cases in the under 30 crowd. Those individuals are also more likely to disregard mask wearing, and head out to bars/other festive crowded events. There it is not political at all, simply they don't think they are at risk, and mask wearing complicates social activities.

My comment on, no single sole cause, is because that is certainly true. In some areas a single super spreader event can drive significant spread. But the bottom line is, mask compliance is number 1, because science says so. We can have relatively safe openings if everyone wears a mask. If too many people don't, we get increases. Whether the reasons for not wearing masks is political, or young people feeling immune, is immaterial.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 16, 2020, 03:51:31 PM

I'll just leave this here, and let others add the obligatory Buzz jokes....

Flushing the Toilet May Fling Coronavirus Aerosols All Over

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/16/health/coronavirus-toilets-flushing.html?action=click&block=more_in_recirc&impression_id=530718539&index=4&name=STYLN_more_in_reopening&pgtype=Article&region=footer&variant=2_variant

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GBPhoenix1993 on June 16, 2020, 09:41:57 PM

So one good trend that I check almost daily is the 7 day Covid Death average for the US on Worldometer.  Just to clarify, that means the average number of deaths per day in the past 7 days.  In mid April, the 7 day average was well over 2000+ deaths per day.  I checked tonight and the 7 day average is just over 700 deaths a day now so things really have been steadily moving in the right direction.  Don't get me wrong, 700+ is way too high and basically about 4 times as bad as a really bad flu season, so we're not out of the woods yet by any means. 

My own personal opinion, I want to see that deaths per day go down below 225 as at that point, it's reached a level of a bad flu season.  I wholeheartedly agree with those who say this is NOT the flu, it really is much much worse especially in how quickly it can hit a geographical region like it did in New York.  If we're able to get the death per day count under 225 a day, then it finally can be compared to the flu at that point in terms of deadliness, but we've got a ways to go before we get there. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 17, 2020, 08:05:47 AM

This should be an interesting "contest" -- health and well-being of American citizens vs. the satiation of Trump's massive ego.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/16/us/politics/trump-coronavirus-rally.html?campaign_id=56&emc=edit_cn_20200617&instance_id=19463&nl=on-politics-with-lisa-lerer&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=31116&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

WASHINGTON — Officials in Tulsa, Okla., are warning that President Trump’s planned campaign rally on Saturday — his first in over three months — is likely to worsen an already troubling spike in coronavirus infections and could become a disastrous “super spreader.”

They are pleading with the Trump campaign to cancel the event, slated for a 20,000-person indoor arena — or at least move it outdoors.

“It’s the perfect storm of potential over-the-top disease transmission,” said Bruce Dart, the executive director of the Tulsa health department. “It’s a perfect storm that we can’t afford to have.”

Tulsa County, which includes the city of Tulsa, tallied 89 new coronavirus cases on Monday, its one-day high since the virus’s outbreak, according to the Tulsa Area Emergency Management Agency. The number of active coronavirus cases climbed to 532 from 188 in a one-week period, a 182 percent increase; hospitalizations with Covid-19 almost doubled.

That spike has local officials and public health experts concerned about welcoming the nation’s first indoor mass gathering since Mr. Trump declared a national emergency in mid-March, an influx of thousands of people interacting inside and outside, amounting to a sprawling coronavirus petri dish.

“There’s just nothing good about this, and particularly in an enclosed arena,” said Karen Keith, a Tulsa County commissioner who oversees the area where the rally is supposed to take place. “I don’t want people to lose a parent. I don’t want them to lose a grandma. I don’t want them to lose a family member over this.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on June 17, 2020, 08:21:09 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on June 16, 2020, 11:37:36 AM

Checking in on Florida:

https://twitter.com/MikeVorkunov/status/1272924457393442818?s=19

Florida health care worker, 15 friends contract COVID-19 at bar
https://nypost.com/2020/06/16/florida-healthcare-worker-15-friends-catch-covid-19-at-bar/
A Mayo Clinic worker who stayed indoors for months in Florida to avoid getting the coronavirus says she finally broke quarantine to go to a bar with pals earlier this month — leaving her and 15 of her friends with the contagion.

“The first night we go out — Murphy’s Law, I guess,” Erika Crisp, a 40-year-old health care worker from Jacksonville.


Lynch's hasn't been cleaned since it opened 2+ decades ago.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 17, 2020, 08:46:26 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on June 17, 2020, 08:21:09 AM

Florida health care worker, 15 friends contract COVID-19 at bar
https://nypost.com/2020/06/16/florida-healthcare-worker-15-friends-catch-covid-19-at-bar/
A Mayo Clinic worker who stayed indoors for months in Florida to avoid getting the coronavirus says she finally broke quarantine to go to a bar with pals earlier this month — leaving her and 15 of her friends with the contagion.

“The first night we go out — Murphy’s Law, I guess,” Erika Crisp, a 40-year-old health care worker from Jacksonville.


Lynch's hasn't been cleaned since it opened 2+ decades ago.

Unfortunate, but predictable.

IMHO we need stories like this to be publicized. If POTUS and our governors don’t have the common sense or political will to keep people from congregating in close spaces where social distancing and masks aren’t practical, maybe fear will keep people away.

It sucks for businesses that rely on close social interaction - like bars, restaurants and entertainment venues – but if we want offices and other businesses to stay open, it would be smart to keep the “social interaction” places limited or closed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GBPhoenix1993 on June 17, 2020, 09:36:23 AM

To me, June thru September is when the Southern states will be most vulnerability to virus spikes.  First, there's a lot more businesses, restaurants, bars, etc. that are open than there were 2 months ago so that will contribute to spread.  Second, the weather in the South is going to force more people indoors as the heat gets so great in some cases that being outside for a long time is not an option.  Heck, I think I saw Phoenix has a projected high temp of 110 degrees this weekend.  You just can't be outside for long with temps like that.

I think what hit the northern states as they had more people staying indoors in March and April is now hitting the Southern states more since more people are forced to be indoors longer.  So far it hasn't been catastrophic but we'll just have to see if the Southern half of the U.S. ends up with a strong wave of cases during the intense heat months.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 17, 2020, 09:54:11 AM

Either China is way over-reacting to the Beijing outbreak or it is much larger and more extensive than being written (i think the latter). 

As an example I just saw a datapoint that Beijing airline departures were down 40% yesterday.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 17, 2020, 10:08:22 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 17, 2020, 09:54:11 AM

Either China is way over-reacting to the Beijing outbreak or it is much larger and more extensive than being written (i think the latter). 

As an example I just saw a datapoint that Beijing airline departures were down 40% yesterday.

Based on supply chain impacts I'm seeing, it's more extensive than reported. I suspect that a certain someone with access to images from Keyhole satellites might find a way to leak the ELINT on China to the media.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 17, 2020, 10:09:12 AM

Texas Governor:

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/06/16/878924556/as-texas-coronavirus-cases-reach-new-high-gov-abbott-plays-down-the-numbers?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on June 17, 2020, 10:33:01 AM

While studies continue to show that wearing masks will greatly reduce transmissions, here's what we're up against.

 Rex Chapman🏇🏼 @RexChapman
Come for the crazy. Stay for the butchering of “God Bless America”...pic.twitter.com/X0etGOt7QB

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on June 17, 2020, 10:42:09 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on June 17, 2020, 10:33:01 AM

Rex Chapman🏇🏼 @RexChapman
Come for the crazy. Stay for the butchering of “God Bless America”...pic.twitter.com/X0etGOt7QB

I think the foam replies are the best.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 17, 2020, 11:22:47 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on June 17, 2020, 10:09:12 AM

Texas Governor:

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/06/16/878924556/as-texas-coronavirus-cases-reach-new-high-gov-abbott-plays-down-the-numbers?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews

Guv to President Pandemic and Vice Hypocrite Pence: "Message received!"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on June 17, 2020, 11:39:14 AM

I'm concerned by the continued underreporting of cases, hospitalizations, and even deaths, particularly amongst elderly individuals in care facilities. In some locales, they will not include these in local numbers, that ultimately get reported to the states, because they are not residents of the location where their case, hospitalization/death occurred.

Essentially no-one wants to include these people in their numbers, and since there is no formal enforcement of including them, they essentially never get counted.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 17, 2020, 01:19:07 PM

Quote from: forgetful on June 17, 2020, 11:39:14 AM

I'm concerned by the continued underreporting of cases, hospitalizations, and even deaths, particularly amongst elderly individuals in care facilities. In some locales, they will not include these in local numbers, that ultimately get reported to the states, because they are not residents of the location where their case, hospitalization/death occurred.

Essentially no-one wants to include these people in their numbers, and since there is no formal enforcement of including them, they essentially never get counted.

I share your concern, but the only state I had heard of where this was documented to be occurring was Florida. Are you aware of other states where this is happening?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 17, 2020, 01:20:11 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 17, 2020, 01:19:07 PM

I share your concern, but the only state I had heard of where this was documented to be occurring was Florida. Are you aware of other states where this is happening?

WA I believe...the out of state issue

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 17, 2020, 01:26:44 PM

Serious stuff: Infection rates and hospitalizations are climbing fast in North Carolina's largest county, Mecklenburg (where Charlotte is) and two large neighboring counties.

Also of big-time concern:

“Over the last two weeks, we have seen a dramatic drop in the average age of death due to COVID-19 related illness, from 83 years old to 39,” said CHA Health Director Dr. Bonnie Coyle. “Deaths among younger populations, along with our rapidly growing case count are extremely concerning as we approach the tentative start of Phase 3 Reopening and the July 4th holiday.”

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/coronavirus/article243599287.html?

Coronavirus cases in Mecklenburg and two neighboring counties have increased over the past two weeks, concerning leaders who say the trend cannot be attributed solely to additional testing.

In Mecklenburg County, 95 new cases were reported Wednesday morning by state health officials, bringing the total number of cases since mid-March to 7,563. As of late Tuesday, 134 people with COVID-19 have died locally. An average of 11% of individuals who were tested were positive during the past week — an increase over the last 14 days, according to health officials.

Leaders in Gaston County say there’s been a “sharp increase,” suggesting “COVID-19 is spreading rapidly in the area,” according to a news release Tuesday. Warnings from health officials in the region come as North Carolinians move further away from the state’s now-expired stay-at-home order and more businesses are permitted to reopen and expand capacity.

Gaston County saw a 312% increase in positive COVID-19 tests between May 30 and June 12, the release states.

“During that same period, the percentage of positive tests out of total tests increased from 5.14% to 11.17%,” according to Gaston officials.

The county has also seen a rise in hospitalizations in the time period — “from single digits in mid-May to more than 20 over the past week.” Officials are warning the public to wear masks, wash hands frequently and continue social distancing while being “vigilant.”

State health officials reported a total of 576 cases and nine deaths in Gaston County, as of Wednesday.

In Cabarrus County, 184 new cases were reported between June 5 and June 15, bringing the county’s total to 740. Another data point worrying health officials — the percent of positive tests — has increased in recent weeks to nearly 10% between May 31 and June 6, Cabarrus County reported.

The county’s health alliance has called it a “steep climb” and renewed calls for people to wear masks in public.

A total of 27 people in the county have died from COVID-19, according to the Cabarrus Health Alliance on Tuesday. Most were people age 70 or older and most were connected to nursing homes or long-term care facilities. But, health officials say, two of the most recent deaths were people in their 20s and one person who was in their 40s.

Statewide, the Department of Health and Human Services reported 1,002 new cases on Wednesday, for a total of 46,855. North Carolina saw 14 more deaths, for a total of 1,168.

Health officials in Mecklenburg, Gaston and Cabarrus counties have all said in recent days they’re concerned about the trends corresponding with less social distancing.

North Carolina’s reopening Phase Three would allow for increased capacity at bars, restaurants and entertainment venues and is set to begin on June 26. State officials, though, have not formally announced the next phase will occur on that timeline.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on June 17, 2020, 02:57:48 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 17, 2020, 01:19:07 PM

I share your concern, but the only state I had heard of where this was documented to be occurring was Florida. Are you aware of other states where this is happening?

I'm pretty sure Texas does this also, so if a patient at a care facility in Houston, actually lives in Austin, they can be excluded from Houston's and the corresponding counties official numbers. In theory this is supposed to be transferred to Austin, but given the poor administration of how numbers are tracked and government ineptitude, lots of cases slip through the cracks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on June 17, 2020, 03:08:26 PM

 I see a common theme in all the states with issues.  The curve was never flattened.  Maybe Washington was but their cases seemed to go up and down weekly

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 17, 2020, 04:09:19 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on June 17, 2020, 03:08:26 PM

I see a common theme in all the states with issues.  The curve was never flattened.  Maybe Washington was but their cases seemed to go up and down weekly

Yep. The plan put forth by CDC called for reopening to begin only after the curve had flattened (reflected in the 14-day criterion). I’m not sure there is a single state the truly waited for that milestone.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 17, 2020, 04:12:35 PM

This is why national leadership matters (Sorry if Wags and Sultan are offended).

https://crooksandliars.com/2020/06/montgomery-city-council-kills-face-mask

Montgomery, Alabama is probably the worst-hit area in the deep south, so the relatively benign call for a face mask ordinance and then a rejection of it left some doctors appalled at a city council meeting last night. Several walked out in disgust.

Montgomery hospitals are at near capacity right now, with the coronavirus pandemic hitting African-Americans especially hard. The vote was along racial lines, the black council members in support, the white council members against. The city is about 60% African-American.


Jackson Hospital pulmonologist William Saliski cleared his throat as he started describing the dire situation created by the coronavirus pandemic in Montgomery to its City Council before they voted on a mandatory mask ordinance. "It's been a long day, I apologize," he said.

"The units are full with critically-ill COVID patients," Saliski said. About 90% of them are Black. He said hospitals are able to manage for now, but it's not sustainable. "This mask slows that down, 95% protection from something as easy as cloth. ... If this continues the way it's going, we will be overrun."

More doctors followed him to the microphone, describing the dead being carried out within 30 minutes of each other, and doctors being disturbed when people on the street ask them if the media is lying about the pandemic as part of a political ploy.

After they spoke, and before the council voted on a proposal by Councilman C.C. Calhoun to mandate mask-wearing in public in Montgomery, Councilman Brantley Lyons questioned whether masks and six-foot distancing really helps. They do, the doctors replied. Lyons was unmoved. "At the end of the day, if an illness or a pandemic comes through we do not throw our constitutional rights out the window," Lyons said.

From the crowd, doctors called for him to visit the hospital sometime.

Instead, the council killed the ordinance after it failed to pass in a 4-4 tie, mostly along racial lines, with Councilman Tracy Larkin absent. Councilman Clay McInnis voted with three Black council members — Calhoun, Oronde Mitchell and Audrey Graham — in favor of the ordinance. Lyons, Charles Jinright, Richard Bollinger and Glen Pruitt voted against it.


A trio of doctors, who had waited hours to speak, got up and left the chamber in disgust. "Unbelievable," Saliski said.

One of the council members said he'd lost six family members to COVID-19. William Boyd, one of several people who spoke in favor of the ordinance, said he's lost six family members to COVID-19. "The question on the table is whether Black lives matter," Boyd said before the vote.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 17, 2020, 04:39:06 PM

The city council’s response to the situation in Montgomery is completely irresponsible, but it seems to reflect the general attitude in the state. As the Governor was dragging her feet before issuing a stay at home order, she said “we are not California.“

Indeed.

Alabama currently has higher per capita infection and death rates than California, despite the fact that the population density in CA is 2.5x that in AL. Oof!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 17, 2020, 04:45:36 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 17, 2020, 04:39:06 PM

The city council’s response to the situation in Montgomery is completely irresponsible, but it seems to reflect the general attitude in the state. As the Governor was dragging her feet before issuing a stay at home order, she said “we are not California.“

Indeed.

Alabama currently has higher per capita infection and death rates than California, despite the fact that the population density in CA is 2.5x that in AL. Oof!

Roll Tide!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 17, 2020, 09:20:31 PM

So in these "masks rob us of freedom" states, do they go barefoot and topless into restaurants?

"Eff y'all if you think we be payin' attention to 'No shoes, no shirt, no service' signs!"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 17, 2020, 09:47:51 PM

Quote from: Jockey on June 17, 2020, 04:12:35 PM

This is why national leadership matters (Sorry if Wags and Sultan are offended).

https://crooksandliars.com/2020/06/montgomery-city-council-kills-face-mask

Montgomery, Alabama is probably the worst-hit area in the deep south, so the relatively benign call for a face mask ordinance and then a rejection of it left some doctors appalled at a city council meeting last night. Several walked out in disgust.

Montgomery hospitals are at near capacity right now, with the coronavirus pandemic hitting African-Americans especially hard. The vote was along racial lines, the black council members in support, the white council members against. The city is about 60% African-American.


Jackson Hospital pulmonologist William Saliski cleared his throat as he started describing the dire situation created by the coronavirus pandemic in Montgomery to its City Council before they voted on a mandatory mask ordinance. "It's been a long day, I apologize," he said.

"The units are full with critically-ill COVID patients," Saliski said. About 90% of them are Black. He said hospitals are able to manage for now, but it's not sustainable. "This mask slows that down, 95% protection from something as easy as cloth. ... If this continues the way it's going, we will be overrun."

More doctors followed him to the microphone, describing the dead being carried out within 30 minutes of each other, and doctors being disturbed when people on the street ask them if the media is lying about the pandemic as part of a political ploy.

After they spoke, and before the council voted on a proposal by Councilman C.C. Calhoun to mandate mask-wearing in public in Montgomery, Councilman Brantley Lyons questioned whether masks and six-foot distancing really helps. They do, the doctors replied. Lyons was unmoved. "At the end of the day, if an illness or a pandemic comes through we do not throw our constitutional rights out the window," Lyons said.

From the crowd, doctors called for him to visit the hospital sometime.

Instead, the council killed the ordinance after it failed to pass in a 4-4 tie, mostly along racial lines, with Councilman Tracy Larkin absent. Councilman Clay McInnis voted with three Black council members — Calhoun, Oronde Mitchell and Audrey Graham — in favor of the ordinance. Lyons, Charles Jinright, Richard Bollinger and Glen Pruitt voted against it.


A trio of doctors, who had waited hours to speak, got up and left the chamber in disgust. "Unbelievable," Saliski said.

One of the council members said he'd lost six family members to COVID-19. William Boyd, one of several people who spoke in favor of the ordinance, said he's lost six family members to COVID-19. "The question on the table is whether Black lives matter," Boyd said before the vote.

The Montgomery mayor just issued an executive order requiring face masks be worn in public. $25 fine for those who are caught in violation of the order.

https://www.wsfa.com/2020/06/17/montgomery-mayor-calls-covid-news-conference/?fbclid=IwAR3QH5XIcc2mxRl5WKWG0bPsouZ_qY2GXfRR2OOEfj4LEBcc_XGExNmeDBw

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 17, 2020, 09:50:18 PM

“If 80% of Americans wore masks, COVID-19 infections would plummet, new study says”

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/05/masks-covid-19-infections-would-plummet-new-study-says?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=onsite-share&utm_brand=vanity-fair&utm_social-type=earned

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 18, 2020, 05:24:33 AM

Quote from: MU82 on June 17, 2020, 09:20:31 PM

So in these "masks rob us of freedom" states, do they go barefoot and topless into restaurants?

"Eff y'all if you think we be payin' attention to 'No shoes, no shirt, no service' signs!"

Back here in Connecticut people have been hanging "No shirt, No shoes, No mask, No service." signs up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 18, 2020, 08:13:51 AM

Honestly the people who don't want to wear masks simply don't want to wear masks.  And instead of saying "I'm selfish and don't care about you," are using freedom and rights language instead.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 18, 2020, 08:35:14 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 18, 2020, 08:13:51 AM

Honestly the people who don't want to wear masks simply don't want to wear masks.  And instead of saying "I'm selfish and don't care about you," are using freedom and rights language instead.

The people that won't wear masks are a mix of those you mention, meaning those who are aware, snd are selfish and don't care, and tribal Trump/GOP followers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on June 18, 2020, 11:00:06 AM

WI and IL doing something right.  Sad to see all the states that are trending poorly

https://twitter.com/GovNedLamont/status/1273333468794159116

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 18, 2020, 11:19:07 AM

Hey that’s our Gov.  Metrics, measurables, systems/processes. 

Task force for reopen led by ex Pepsi CEO and Yale epidemiology prof. 

Expertise makes a difference (so far anyway).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 18, 2020, 11:49:23 AM

I have explained the mask-wearing stance to non-wearers this way:

I don't wear a mask for me, I wear it for everybody else. It's kind of like when I sneeze: I don't cover my mouth for me, I cover it so I don't get any of my sneeze on you. I like to think you appreciate that.

I've actually had two people who didn't wear masks say that makes sense, though I don't know them well enough to know if they actually started wearing masks because of it. A couple of people also basically (but more politely) said "Freedom! ... 'Murica! ... screw you."

But I think the analogy is spot-on.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on June 18, 2020, 01:19:35 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 18, 2020, 08:13:51 AM

Honestly the people who don't want to wear masks simply don't want to wear masks.  And instead of saying "I'm selfish and don't care about you," are using freedom and rights language instead.

A co-worker posted on FB, roughly, "please wear masks."   One of his friends replied, "I am in the medical field and they make not a bit of difference and to most do more damage to the ones wearing them. I don't wear one unless I am at work and only because I am forced to. .. ..  I find it funny how all the healthcare professionals I work with including the doctors do not wear one outside of work for a reason."



/facepalm


I very much want to know what "medical field" that is.  Cosmetology?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on June 18, 2020, 01:21:22 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on June 18, 2020, 01:19:35 PM

A co-worker posted on FB, roughly, "please wear masks."   One of his friends replied, "I am in the medical field and they make not a bit of difference and to most do more damage to the ones wearing them. I don't wear one unless I am at work and only because I am forced to. .. ..  I find it funny how all the healthcare professionals I work with including the doctors do not wear one outside of work for a reason."



/facepalm


I very much want to know what "medical field" that is.  Cosmetology?

Good lord.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on June 18, 2020, 01:35:12 PM

Baseball practice at an indoor facility last night.  Four sets of parents wearing masks.   The firefighter, the medical professional, the family with two members who likely had it in March, (sick as hell for 3 weeks, quarantine, but not quite bad enough to go to the hospital) but still haven't been able to get an antibody test, and the admitted germophobe.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 18, 2020, 01:36:39 PM

Statement of NIH Director Collins on link between genetics and blood type, and severity of COVID-19 illness:

https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2020/06/18/genes-blood-type-tied-to-covid-19-risk-of-severe-disease/

The two stretches of DNA implicated as harboring risks for severe COVID-19 are known to carry some intriguing genes, including one that determines blood type and others that play various roles in the immune system. In fact, the findings suggest that people with blood type A face a 50 percent greater risk of needing oxygen support or a ventilator should they become infected with the novel coronavirus. In contrast, people with blood type O appear to have about a 50 percent reduced risk of severe COVID-19.
...

The hope is that these and other findings yet to come will point the way to a more thorough understanding of the biology of COVID-19. They also suggest that a genetic test and a person’s blood type might provide useful tools for identifying those who may be at greater risk of serious illness.

-------------

I know others didn't like it when I suggested we may be heading in this direction, but it may be time to consider treating people with Type A blood as being an "at-risk" group.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 18, 2020, 01:40:10 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 18, 2020, 11:19:07 AM

Hey that’s our Gov.  Metrics, measurables, systems/processes. 

Task force for reopen led by ex Pepsi CEO and Yale epidemiology prof. 

Expertise makes a difference (so far anyway).

And he's wanted to open things sooner, but he said it's best for everyone if we stick to following metrics, measurables, systems/processes. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on June 18, 2020, 01:56:37 PM

Quote from: tower912 on June 18, 2020, 01:35:12 PM

Baseball practice at an indoor facility last night.  Four sets of parents wearing masks.   The firefighter, the medical professional, the family with two members who likely had it in March, (sick as hell for 3 weeks, quarantine, but not quite bad enough to go to the hospital) but still haven't been able to get an antibody test, and the admitted germophobe.

why is practice inside in june? My son has basketball practice indoors but parents are not allowed to enter the building

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 18, 2020, 02:22:46 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on June 18, 2020, 01:19:35 PM

A co-worker posted on FB, roughly, "please wear masks."   One of his friends replied, "I am in the medical field and they make not a bit of difference and to most do more damage to the ones wearing them. I don't wear one unless I am at work and only because I am forced to. .. ..  I find it funny how all the healthcare professionals I work with including the doctors do not wear one outside of work for a reason."



/facepalm


I very much want to know what "medical field" that is.  Cosmetology?

Ha, I saw the SAME argument from a friend from HS.  I can't do facebook anymore.  I get almost nothing positive from it, and end up losing respect for people I previously only had positive memories of.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: SERocks on June 18, 2020, 02:32:57 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 18, 2020, 02:22:46 PM

Ha, I saw the SAME argument from a friend from HS.  I can't do facebook anymore.  I get almost nothing positive from it, and end up losing respect for people I previously only had positive memories of.

Me too.  To be honest I cannot believe the number of my friends who are selfish pretty boys.  And not very smart on top of it. 

EDIT:  And you know I did not type "pretty boys."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 18, 2020, 02:33:54 PM

Nebraska governor tells local governments they won't get any of the $100 million Federal aid if they require masks.

https://www.omaha.com/news/state_and_regional/ricketts-tells-local-governments-they-wont-get-federal-covid-19-money-if-they-require-masks/article_d15459b9-26df-527e-9899-9f579a3d8597.html?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_OWHnews

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 18, 2020, 02:55:41 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on June 18, 2020, 02:33:54 PM

Nebraska governor tells local governments they won't get any of the $100 million Federal aid if they require masks.

https://www.omaha.com/news/state_and_regional/ricketts-tells-local-governments-they-wont-get-federal-covid-19-money-if-they-require-masks/article_d15459b9-26df-527e-9899-9f579a3d8597.html?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_OWHnews

I just don't get this.  This is the one relatively proven way that we can keep an open economy AND limit spread to a low level.  Win win for everyone and yet folks are actively working against it.  Just amazing. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on June 18, 2020, 03:03:38 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 18, 2020, 02:55:41 PM

I just don't get this.  This is the one relatively proven way that we can keep an open economy AND limit spread to a low level.  Win win for everyone and yet folks are actively working against it.  Just amazing.

I just don't even get the origin of this. The Whitehouse was made very aware that masks were the best way to mitigate spread. They decided it was not consistent with the message they wanted to take. Why?

The only thing I can even speculate on, is that they didn't want to make it look like CoVID was a significant concern.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 18, 2020, 03:13:30 PM

I think it is about the optics of looking weak.  Which is weird.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 18, 2020, 03:16:45 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 18, 2020, 02:55:41 PM

I just don't get this.  This is the one relatively proven way that we can keep an open economy AND limit spread to a low level.  Win win for everyone and yet folks are actively working against it.  Just amazing.

Agreed. I just don't see a downside to promoting a simple method of getting to the win-win that would help everyone.

The only explanation I can see - not that it justifies the behavior - is that opponents of masks dug in their heels when the data was more sketchy, and now feel like promoting them will be an admission that they were wrong...and they feel they just can't admit they were wrong at any price.

If there's a better explanation, I'd love to hear it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 18, 2020, 03:18:28 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 18, 2020, 03:13:30 PM

I think it is about the optics of looking weak.  Which is weird.

Of all the things that make people appear weak, they chose masks as the line in the sand.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 18, 2020, 03:24:20 PM

Shocking.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/18/us/coronavirus-arizona-stay-at-home-mark-lamb.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on June 18, 2020, 04:01:57 PM

Working title for the 2H of 2020 is the GREAT COMEUPPENING.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on June 18, 2020, 04:39:22 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 18, 2020, 11:19:07 AM

Hey that’s our Gov.  Metrics, measurables, systems/processes. 

Task force for reopen led by ex Pepsi CEO and Yale epidemiology prof. 

Expertise makes a difference (so far anyway).

Nooyi being included was interesting to me. She’s obviously very intelligent and a skilled operator, but one of the things that struck me, during the almost 4 years I worked at Pepsico under her leadership, was how completely out of touch she was.  Now sure you can say that about many wealthy and powerful people, but for someone in the CPG space with “everyman” products, almost quarterly there would be an internal memo or story I heard that made me wonder if she had any clue about normal daily life for her consumers, which also rings true here.  There was a team that specifically curated and glamorized her local CT grocery store, highlighting PepsiCo products, and she had zero clue that’s not how it was everywhere. It was actually hilarious

But they seem to be doing a great job, so kudos to the,.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 18, 2020, 05:57:17 PM

“Florida doctors are begging people to wear masks...”

https://twitter.com/terryspen/status/1273750436521168896

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on June 18, 2020, 06:35:53 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on June 18, 2020, 01:19:35 PM

I very much want to know what "medical field" that is.  Cosmetology?

Online PhD from the University of Moscow.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 18, 2020, 06:42:37 PM

Does your state have enough contact tracers?

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/06/18/879787448/as-states-reopen-do-they-have-the-workforce-they-need-to-stop-coronavirus-outbre (https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/06/18/879787448/as-states-reopen-do-they-have-the-workforce-they-need-to-stop-coronavirus-outbre)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 18, 2020, 06:48:45 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 18, 2020, 06:42:37 PM

Does your state have enough contact tracers?

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/06/18/879787448/as-states-reopen-do-they-have-the-workforce-they-need-to-stop-coronavirus-outbre (https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/06/18/879787448/as-states-reopen-do-they-have-the-workforce-they-need-to-stop-coronavirus-outbre)

Numerous public health leaders have called for more leadership — if not funding and staff — from the federal government to support state and local health departments' contact tracing efforts.

"We have needed a federal response on this from Day 1 and we haven't had one," says El-Sayed. "We need federal funding for contact tracers and we need it now."

Yup. CDC, you there?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on June 18, 2020, 08:42:39 PM

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/502214-ohio-lawmaker-asks-if-colored-population-is-hit-harder-by-coronavirus

Um....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 18, 2020, 09:46:41 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 18, 2020, 06:48:45 PM

Numerous public health leaders have called for more leadership — if not funding and staff — from the federal government to support state and local health departments' contact tracing efforts.

"We have needed a federal response on this from Day 1 and we haven't had one," says El-Sayed. "We need federal funding for contact tracers and we need it now."

Yup. CDC, you there?

I doubt that the CDC has the means (cash) to do this. I think the money would have to come from the Federal gov't.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 18, 2020, 11:39:33 PM

Quote from: Jockey on June 18, 2020, 09:46:41 PM

I doubt that the CDC has the means (cash) to do this. I think the money would have to come from the Federal gov't.

True. They have the expertise, but they would need the green light from POTUS. Still, Redfield ought to be screaming for the resources. And maybe that would get him fired, but at least he’d go down doing the right thing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 18, 2020, 11:42:13 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 18, 2020, 11:39:33 PM

True. They have the expertise, but they would need the green light from POTUS. Still, Redfield ought to be screaming for the resources. And maybe that would get him fired, but at least he’d go down doing the right thing.

Well, POTUS has neutered the CDC so I don’t see any hope there. No need for the CDC anyway since Covid barely exists anymore.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 19, 2020, 07:12:32 AM

Tennessee:

https://twitter.com/natalie_allison/status/1273886137443127296?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 19, 2020, 07:13:59 AM

AMC movies:

https://twitter.com/Variety/status/1273763757592735746?s=19

(Cinemark and Regal also not requiring masks)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 19, 2020, 07:17:42 AM

Somethings going to happen this summer.  Either I’m wrong and caution is stupid or the medical community is generally right.   

In either case I’m glad I am an observer from New England. 

PS: and by caution I don't mean something extreme like shut-downs or other.  I just mean limited contact, masks, outdoor activities, etc...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 19, 2020, 07:22:11 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on June 19, 2020, 07:12:32 AM

Tennessee:

https://twitter.com/natalie_allison/status/1273886137443127296?s=19

11 minutes later update:

https://twitter.com/natalie_allison/status/1273888436819308546?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 19, 2020, 07:41:42 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 19, 2020, 07:17:42 AM

Somethings going to happen this summer.  Either I’m wrong and caution is stupid or the medical community is generally right.   

In either case I’m glad I am an observer from New England. 

PS: and by caution I don't mean something extreme like shut-downs or other.  I just mean limited contact, masks, outdoor activities, etc...

IMHO, we are already starting to see it happen. Unfortunately, it's a tale to two nations. In one, there will be enforcement of masks, limited contact, perhaps closing of certain 'close-contact' venues like movie theaters and such. In the other, there will be continued talk of a media-inspired overreaction, the 'right' to go without a mask, and rapidly escalating death rates.

Given the split, I think the only way we will see any organized sports will be without fans and in 'bubble' scenarios like the NBA. And even that may prove impossible.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 19, 2020, 08:16:43 AM

Possible mask solution for some:

https://twitter.com/TheDailyShow/status/1273776360595611649?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on June 19, 2020, 08:56:25 AM

Reading those tweets about the Tennessee legislature -just wow! And if you google Tennessee news this morning, it’s all about the abortion bill or the seven companies making the masks that everyone refuses to wear,  so I did not find out if they ever made the Bible the official state book of Tennessee, or officially designate CNN and the Washington Post as fake news.....
Honestly I don’t want to hear a word anymore about the Illinois legislature after reading those threads.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 19, 2020, 10:00:14 AM

Beijing airline departures down 70% over the past three days.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on June 19, 2020, 10:09:29 AM

Who would have thought that giving a multi-million dollar contract to a company that didn't exist before, for sterile testing supplies could go poorly.

https://www.tampabay.com/florida-politics/buzz/2020/06/07/how-a-st-petersburg-company-with-no-history-in-medical-supplies-won-a-10-million-coronavirus-contract/

https://www.propublica.org/article/the-trump-administration-paid-millions-for-test-tubes-and-got-unusable-mini-soda-bottles

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on June 19, 2020, 10:23:06 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 19, 2020, 07:41:42 AM

IMHO, we are already starting to see it happen. Unfortunately, it's a tale to two nations. In one, there will be enforcement of masks, limited contact, perhaps closing of certain 'close-contact' venues like movie theaters and such. In the other, there will be continued talk of a media-inspired overreaction, the 'right' to go without a mask, and rapidly escalating death rates.

Given the split, I think the only way we will see any organized sports will be without fans and in 'bubble' scenarios like the NBA. And even that may prove impossible.

The only way it proves impossible is if players refuse to agree to it for some reason. Most major European soccer leagues have restarted just fine and without issue.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on June 19, 2020, 10:25:17 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on June 19, 2020, 10:23:06 AM

The only way it proves impossible is if players refuse to agree to it for some reason. Most major European soccer leagues have restarted just fine and without issue.

To be fair, the situation in Europe is far better than it is in the US. We are still in the midst of our first wave. They have largely returned to baseline.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 19, 2020, 12:10:26 PM

Quote from: forgetful on June 19, 2020, 10:09:29 AM

Who would have thought that giving a multi-million dollar contract to a company that didn't exist before, for sterile testing supplies could go poorly.

https://www.tampabay.com/florida-politics/buzz/2020/06/07/how-a-st-petersburg-company-with-no-history-in-medical-supplies-won-a-10-million-coronavirus-contract/

https://www.propublica.org/article/the-trump-administration-paid-millions-for-test-tubes-and-got-unusable-mini-soda-bottles

Disgusting.

But not unexpected.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 19, 2020, 12:28:11 PM

Quote from: forgetful on June 19, 2020, 10:25:17 AM

To be fair, the situation in Europe is far better than it is in the US. We are still in the midst of our first wave. They have largely returned to baseline.

Affirmative. The UK and France have been steadily declining, and even Spain and Italy have leveled off.

Here in the US, the northeast and parts of the midwest are seeing a nice downward trend, but most everywhere west of the Mississippi and south of the Mason-Dixon Line are increasing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on June 19, 2020, 12:53:42 PM

Stay safe, citizens of Florida.     

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 19, 2020, 01:05:09 PM

Quote from: Jockey on June 19, 2020, 12:10:26 PM

Disgusting.

But not unexpected.

The Art of the Deal on display.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 19, 2020, 02:34:38 PM

Is the Coronavirus Death Tally Inflated? Here’s Why Experts Say No

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/06/19/us/us-coronavirus-covid-death-toll.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

On Sunday, Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo became the latest in a string of elected officials, including President Trump, to question the death toll from the coronavirus, calling the process of assigning cause of death “fairly random.”

In May, the governor also questioned the use of “probable” deaths in public tallies, noting that New York would continue to keep these deaths from its total counts, even though many states and New York City post them publicly.

But public health experts say the method used to count deaths from a disease like Covid-19 is decades-old and some amount of uncertainty is simply part of the process.

“Everything is so politically charged, people are looking for excuses to question the data,” said Robert Anderson, who runs the mortality statistics branch of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s National Center for Health Statistics.

...

The president and conservative news media have accused states of inflating their counts, even as public health experts have said that undercounting is more likely. Limited awareness and testing during the initial months of the pandemic mean an unknown number of early Covid-19 deaths will never be counted.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on June 19, 2020, 03:11:58 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 19, 2020, 02:34:38 PM

“Everything is so politically charged, people are looking for excuses to question the data,” said Robert Anderson, who runs the mortality statistics branch of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s National Center for Health Statistics.

Politics 101:  Throw as much uncertainly as possible against facts uncovered by people do who a thing for a living,  knowing full well the truth will be found out at a later date.  However, those truths do not get fully uncovered until said politicians are out of that particular office or they can just shrug it off as the public is focused on the next thing.

In 2-3 years the full truth of this will be well documented.  I fear that the truth will not look good on the politicians.  Good for them they will be onto obfuscating the next set of facts. Sad.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on June 19, 2020, 04:33:13 PM

Quote from: forgetful on June 19, 2020, 10:25:17 AM

To be fair, the situation in Europe is far better than it is in the US. We are still in the midst of our first wave. They have largely returned to baseline.

That’s fine, but I was largely speaking to the sequestered nature of soccer restarting. It’s not like they are just playing without fans but otherwise life is normal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 19, 2020, 05:44:13 PM

"Florida governor blames Covid-19 spike on overwhelmingly Hispanic laborers..."  . ..........(By the way average age of COVID-19 patients in Florida is now 37)


https://nypost.com/2020/06/19/desantis-blames-covid-spike-on-overwhelmingly-hispanic-laborers/amp/?utm_source=twitter_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site%20buttons&utm_campaign=site%20buttons&__twitter_impression=true

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 19, 2020, 05:54:40 PM

https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1274066668390502400?s=19

UCLA football players demanding third party health official at all football related activities to make sure all COVID-19 protocols are followed because they do not trust their coach. They also demand anonymous whistleblower protections.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on June 19, 2020, 09:13:58 PM

@NumbersMuncher: Over 20% of Arizona's tests for COVID-19 came back positive today.

In Florida, the number was 10% - they were under 3% a few weeks ago.

New York is down to about 1% and Illinois is down to 3%.

Distancing helps. Masks help. Medical experts know better than politicians.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on June 19, 2020, 09:22:32 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on June 19, 2020, 05:44:13 PM

"Florida governor blames Covid-19 spike on overwhelmingly Hispanic laborers..."  . ..........(By the way average age of COVID-19 patients in Florida is now 37)


https://nypost.com/2020/06/19/desantis-blames-covid-spike-on-overwhelmingly-hispanic-laborers/amp/?utm_source=twitter_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site%20buttons&utm_campaign=site%20buttons&__twitter_impression=true

At least he's not blaming the fully Hispanic laborers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 19, 2020, 09:32:27 PM

nm

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 19, 2020, 09:34:05 PM

Take this stuff elsewhere.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on June 19, 2020, 09:35:25 PM

So how much testing will take place on college campus' in the 1st semester.  From what i am reading about the cases at schools most are asymptomatic.  So that is good but also bad obviously with the spread that people may not know.
If you can keep the kids bottled up on campus and test them before they go home.

Cases will happen cannot shut down entire campus with a few cases.
By the way MLB has no clue what they are doing, nothing in place for when a few are positive

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 19, 2020, 10:51:16 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 19, 2020, 09:34:05 PM

Take this stuff elsewhere.

For real.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 19, 2020, 11:11:49 PM

Done. And done.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 20, 2020, 07:49:12 AM

Dr Tom Frieden’s weekly data analysis.

 https://mobile.twitter.com/DrTomFrieden/status/1274129960710610945 (https://mobile.twitter.com/DrTomFrieden/status/1274129960710610945)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 20, 2020, 07:58:09 AM

Yeah its getting pretty obvious that some places "opened" way too soon and without adeequate resources in place.  But its also pretty obvious that a good portion of the country doesn't really care.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on June 20, 2020, 08:10:54 AM

This isn't over.  It isn't close to over.  The virus is relentless.   The best things you can do for yourself and your family are wear masks, wash your hands, don't participate in large gatherings, particularly indoors.   Accept you will be doing these things for several months.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on June 20, 2020, 08:16:42 AM

Study says our government response (or lack thereof) cost tens of thousands of lives.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/19/faster-response-prevented-most-us-covid-19-deaths/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 20, 2020, 08:39:50 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 20, 2020, 07:58:09 AM

Yeah its getting pretty obvious that some places "opened" way too soon and without adeequate resources in place.  But its also pretty obvious that a good portion of the country doesn't really care.

Given all the things that have gone on since reopening and how far back a lot of the reopenings were, I don't think we can say this is a reopening problem. I'd say this is an overconfidence problem, partly due to the constant "we are all gonna die" narrative which seemed to never manifest. Well its manifesting now and some places are paying the consequences of their hubris

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HouWarrior on June 20, 2020, 08:48:33 AM

I apologize in advance if this should be in another thread.

In the last few weeks, almost daily I see ESPN site noting a college football program with double digit COVID positives among the players. How can they expect to play this contact sport in the fall/cool weather without infecting each other?

The NFL, NBA and MLB (big maybe) aspire to terms of reopening. In reading those terms they dont have a re-shutdown contingency when players are infected . When just one (Rudy Gobert) caught it so did at least one of his teammates. I cant imagine any agent who will let his player continue on after infection hits a team.

My pessimistic gut feeling is creeping in that for all the talk/plans and optimism of re- starting up the big time pro and collegiate team sports...when the teams actually physically convene and interact;  the virus will hit and these restarts will have to re-shutdown. We may not have major team sports in 2020.

Your thoughts?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 20, 2020, 08:52:11 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 20, 2020, 08:39:50 AM

Given all the things that have gone on since reopening and how far back a lot of the reopenings were, I don't think we can say this is a reopening problem. I'd say this is an overconfidence problem, partly due to the constant "we are all gonna die" narrative which seemed to never manifest. Well its manifesting now and some places are paying the consequences of their hubris

I agree with this.  Open/closed was just to get people’s attention.  With inconsistent messaging, lack of trust in our govt and odd politically driven battles (masks/hydroxy) we have lost attention in many places. 

I think the messaging of ‘this is behind us or not serious’ is far more damaging than being able to go to TJ Maxx.

Eng and I know you have been critical of the hyperbolic news.  But in reality this is the most Suddenly deadly thing that has struck the country in my lifetime.  100k in three months and we still have people thinking it’s the flu. 

Clearly it’s not Ebola or contagion either and it may not be the scourge that aids was globally over decades...but the dismissal is odd

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on June 20, 2020, 09:30:12 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 20, 2020, 08:39:50 AM

Given all the things that have gone on since reopening and how far back a lot of the reopenings were, I don't think we can say this is a reopening problem. I'd say this is an overconfidence problem, partly due to the constant "we are all gonna die" narrative which seemed to never manifest. Well its manifesting now and some places are paying the consequences of their hubris

eng ... I greatly appreciate and respect your opinions here, so this may seem harsher than I intend it and I apologize in advance if I'm misunderstanding you.
But this reads to me as complete spin to absolve those who played down this threat in the early weeks.
What you seem to be saying is that blame for what we're seeing today falls, at least in part, on those who correctly warned us that this is what would happen if people didn't heed the warnings (which, by the way, were never "we're all going to die," though I understand you need such hyperbole to make your case).
Seems the ultimate damned if you do, damned if you don't. Don't warn people? It's your fault they're sick. Do warn people? It's your fault they're sick.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on June 20, 2020, 10:14:42 AM

Quote from: houwarrior on June 20, 2020, 08:48:33 AM

I apologize in advance if this should be in another thread.

In the last few weeks, almost daily I see ESPN site noting a college football program with double digit COVID positives among the players. How can they expect to play this contact sport in the fall/cool weather without infecting each other?

The NFL, NBA and MLB (big maybe) aspire to terms of reopening. In reading those terms they dont have a re-shutdown contingency when players are infected . When just one (Rudy Gobert) caught it so did at least one of his teammates. I cant imagine any agent who will let his player continue on after infection hits a team.

My pessimistic gut feeling is creeping in that for all the talk/plans and optimism of re- starting up the big time pro and collegiate team sports...when the teams actually physically convene and interact;  the virus will hit and these restarts will have to re-shutdown. We may not have major team sports in 2020.

Your thoughts?

I am still optimistic but it is really up to the players and what they do in their spare time.  How can european soccer go on with no real issues? Korean baseball?  None of those leagues are in a bubble.

I think we have learned trips to the grocery store or to pick up medications are safe at this point.  The virus is transmitted by long exposure in tight quarters to those infected.  That is why we have seen the spike in cases ages 20-29 they are going to bars or parties.
Stay away from the large indoor gatherings and we will be in much better shape.  I still think we can have limited fans outdoor and indoor.  masks required and social distancing practiced

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on June 20, 2020, 11:17:09 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on June 20, 2020, 09:30:12 AM

eng ... I greatly appreciate and respect your opinions here, so this may seem harsher than I intend it and I apologize in advance if I'm misunderstanding you.
But this reads to me as complete spin to absolve those who played down this threat in the early weeks.
What you seem to be saying is that blame for what we're seeing today falls, at least in part, on those who correctly warned us that this is what would happen if people didn't heed the warnings (which, by the way, were never "we're all going to die," though I understand you need such hyperbole to make your case).
Seems the ultimate damned if you do, damned if you don't. Don't warn people? It's your fault they're sick. Do warn people? It's your fault they're sick.

I can’t speak for Eng but I share some of his sentiments.

And I don’t think it’s absolution. I’m sure he’s not speaking to people calling it a hoax or saying death counts would be lower than a flu season. But rather to the alternative to those championing most of the fearful projections.


Maybe they didn’t say “we are all gonna die” but there were people warning against people dropping dead on flights, bodies in the streets, broad deaths across all age groups, lockdowns into 2021, etc... That level of dire projections haven’t come true

Now you have places meeting metrics, beginning reponening, and people immediately began cautioning on the second wave how bad this was still gonna be, etc and I think people got fed up and over confident, which is what he’s speaking to.  And I’m not talking AZ or FL, I’m talking to the reaction of people in places like WI, OH, IL that are managing well. That sort of constant paranoia generation in the face of improving situations doesn’t breed vigilance, it breeds exhaustion and defiance.

I do think the irony here is the states I mentioned flattened the curve whereas the recent hotspots never did as they “started” their curves latter and opened prematurely. But here we are

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 20, 2020, 11:22:42 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on June 20, 2020, 11:17:09 AM

I can’t speak for Eng but I share some of his sentiments.

And I don’t think it’s absolution. I’m sure he’s not speaking to people calling it a hoax or saying death counts would be lower than a flu season. But rather to the alternative to those championing most of the fearful projections.


Maybe they didn’t say “we are all gonna die” but there were people warning against people dropping dead on flights, bodies in the streets, broad deaths across all age groups, lockdowns into 2021, etc... That level of dire projections haven’t come true

Now you have places meeting metrics, beginning reponening, and people immediately began cautioning on the second wave how bad this was still gonna be, etc and I think people got fed up and over confident, which is what he’s speaking to.  And I’m not talking AZ or FL, I’m talking to the reaction of people in places like WI, OH, IL that are managing well. That sort of constant paranoia generation in the face of improving situations doesn’t breed vigilance, it breeds exhaustion and defiance.

I do think the irony here is the states I mentioned flattened the curve whereas the recent hotspots never did as they “started” their curves latter and opened prematurely. But here we are

I think the exhaustion and defiance was bred in part by inconsistent messaging at the top. And I’m being generous by calling it “inconsistent.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on June 20, 2020, 11:29:31 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 20, 2020, 11:22:42 AM

I think the exhaustion and defiance was bred in part by inconsistent messaging at the top. And I’m being generous by calling it “inconsistent.”

I don’t disagree. I think inconsistent messaging all over the place has been an issue. And no this isn’t whataboutism or very fine people on both sides, it’s people predicting this to be the Black Plague and others calling it a mild flu or a hoax and much of the common sense, moderate approach that is most apt and palatable is discarded in favor of the politicization of this whole situation that has emerged. It’s beyond frustrating.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on June 20, 2020, 11:40:36 AM

Found this string of tweets to be useful to see where we have come since the end of April.
large decrease in deaths and cases per day even with the large increase in tests per day.

https://twitter.com/trvrb/status/1274144864196653057

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 20, 2020, 11:52:19 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on June 20, 2020, 11:29:31 AM

I don’t disagree. I think inconsistent messaging all over the place has been an issue. And no this isn’t whataboutism or very fine people on both sides, it’s people predicting this to be the Black Plague and others calling it a mild flu or a hoax and much of the common sense, moderate approach that is most apt and palatable is discarded in favor of the politicization of this whole situation that has emerged. It’s beyond frustrating.

Yeah I don’t think so. I think if the President would have stuck to messaging and actually lead versus bitching about the economy and sending out his Liberate posts, that the opening would have been handled better.

Very few (if any) compared this to the Black Death. And no one I can recall in a position of authority.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 20, 2020, 12:17:24 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 20, 2020, 11:52:19 AM

Yeah I don’t think so. I think if the President would have stuck to messaging and actually lead versus bitching about the economy and sending out his Liberate posts, that the opening would have been handled better.

Very few (if any) compared this to the Black Death. And no one I can recall in a position of authority.

Yes, despite the slowness in realizing how bad this pandemic is (even though he himself claimed to have known it was a pandemic before anybody else did, as amazing a lie as he's ever told if you think about it), we still could be in a lot better shape had he not laid out a careful plan for re-opening on a Thursday and then, 15 hours later, started telling people in several states that didn't meet his own guidelines/benchmarks that they should protest not being re-opened.

Any chance he had of not being President Pandemic ended that Friday.

Quote from: houwarrior on June 20, 2020, 08:48:33 AM

I apologize in advance if this should be in another thread.

In the last few weeks, almost daily I see ESPN site noting a college football program with double digit COVID positives among the players. How can they expect to play this contact sport in the fall/cool weather without infecting each other?

The NFL, NBA and MLB (big maybe) aspire to terms of reopening. In reading those terms they dont have a re-shutdown contingency when players are infected . When just one (Rudy Gobert) caught it so did at least one of his teammates. I cant imagine any agent who will let his player continue on after infection hits a team.

My pessimistic gut feeling is creeping in that for all the talk/plans and optimism of re- starting up the big time pro and collegiate team sports...when the teams actually physically convene and interact;  the virus will hit and these restarts will have to re-shutdown. We may not have major team sports in 2020.

Your thoughts?

I haven't followed baseball's plans closely enough because all the bickering between the players and owners have sucked all the air out of that room, and I don't think the NFL has laid out a firm plan. But I believe that both the NBA commissioner and the union leaders have said they totally understand that there almost surely will be some coronavirus cases that pop up, but that the presence of those cases alone will not shut down the league once things get started.

I welcome somebody to correct me if I'm wrong about that, or to expound on that point.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on June 20, 2020, 01:01:38 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 20, 2020, 08:39:50 AM

Given all the things that have gone on since reopening and how far back a lot of the reopenings were, I don't think we can say this is a reopening problem. I'd say this is an overconfidence problem, partly due to the constant "we are all gonna die" narrative which seemed to never manifest. Well its manifesting now and some places are paying the consequences of their hubris

Honestly, about 3-weeks to a month after major reopening is when I would predict a noticeable trend in surge of cases. We are essentially a month after most things opened in places like Texas and Florida and we are seeing the sustained increases.

Texas allowed restaurants, barber shops, etc. to open on May 18th. You can see a noticeable change in inflection point in case curves about 1-week later that only grew. 100% consistent with opening too soon without plans in place.

https://www.keranews.org/post/did-texas-reopen-too-soon

Florida went to phase 2 of the reopening the same day. They see a noticeable change in inflection point about a week and a half later.

Both are consistent with what you would expect to observe in regard to timelines for opening too soon.

Importantly, both states were very poor at testing when they reopened, and occur in areas where buy-in for social distancing and preventive measures are low. I'm not saying opening was necessarily bad, that is a more complicated argument, but the trends are exactly what you would expect in terms of timelines for reopening too soon.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 20, 2020, 01:13:44 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on June 20, 2020, 09:30:12 AM

eng ... I greatly appreciate and respect your opinions here, so this may seem harsher than I intend it and I apologize in advance if I'm misunderstanding you.
But this reads to me as complete spin to absolve those who played down this threat in the early weeks.
What you seem to be saying is that blame for what we're seeing today falls, at least in part, on those who correctly warned us that this is what would happen if people didn't heed the warnings (which, by the way, were never "we're all going to die," though I understand you need such hyperbole to make your case).
Seems the ultimate damned if you do, damned if you don't. Don't warn people? It's your fault they're sick. Do warn people? It's your fault they're sick.

First, no offense taken, I like to have my thoughts and biases interrogated to make sure they make sense.

Second, I think your interpretation is off based on my desire to communicate something quickly while typing on my phone.

My point is really made in two parts, 1 is about how individuals are generally experiencing Covid and 2 is how the public discourse has been inconsistent at best which leads people to their own interpretations.

1. Yes 120,000 have died and 10x that have been sickened but in the grand scheme of things the number of 336 million citizens that has DIRECTLY experienced Covid is relatively low. Let's take deaths, NY and NJ experienced the bulk of the deaths(45,000) so if you spread the remaining deaths across the 48 states (an average is not great here, should be ratio'd by population but lazy + time.....) you get roughly 1,600 deaths per state, tragic no doubt, but how many citizens are "directly" experiencing that pain? Conversely, how many of the same citizens are experiencing job loss, businesses closing, being shut in, etc? In other words, significantly more people are directly experiencing the effects of closing than Covid. As humans, we're conditioned to react to the direct stimuli much more than the indirect. Not saying the reductive nature of people's reaction to Covid is right, simply that I understand where it comes from.

2. The narrative across the board has been very inconsistent (at all levels) as to the risk and concern around Covid spread. I'll use Wisconsin as an example:
-general concern but not a big deal around Covid
-Rudy Gobert tests positive, leagues shut down, people get serious then lock down happens
-people take it serious for several weeks but during that time there is no discussion of metrics, it's we need to time with vague handwaving
-in person elections are declared very dangerous and indicative of a massive spreading event (minimal to no spread is measured)
-protests start to form around lock downs and masks, those protests are messaged as dangerous spreading event( again limited spread)
-lock down is cancelled, opening up narrative begins (some but not unreasonable spread occurs)
-George Floyd protests happen for 3 weeks and not only is spreading risk minimized, some, including health care workers, message that systemic racism is a bigger health concern than Covid.
-Protests fade into the background, and now that predominantly 4 states are seeing a significant increase in infection (while death rates fall) the reopening is dangerous narrative resurfaces and seems to ignore all protest infection vector discussion
*heavily summarized and generalized for some sort of brevity. Also not an endorsement of the positions simply a reflection of how these events can be viewed.

When you combine these things, I get where people get really cavalier with this. Not saying it's right, but I totally get how we got here and I think the intellectual crowd generally assumes they are right and looks on those who disagree as somehow broken without understanding the context of the mind set.

Lastly, 100% Trump bears a significant fault in the fracturing of the country(its kind of his move). I'd like to see us rise above but doesn't seem like we can, bad leadership on all sides if you are asking me.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on June 20, 2020, 01:29:32 PM

Florida graph. Someone asked why soccer leagues have reopened without issue? It is simple, those countries have not only flattened the curve, but brought it down to levels where contact tracing is possible, then the actually staffed their HC system with people to do the tracing.
This graph shows the infection rate for a state that will soon host the NBA, MLB, and the RNC convention. What could possibly go wrong?

(https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.flyertalk.com-vbulletin/738x540/cases6020_ad602ed4b117b3b660aa09aaf5e4c07e90408181.jpg)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 20, 2020, 01:34:15 PM

Quote from: forgetful on June 20, 2020, 01:01:38 PM

Honestly, about 3-weeks to a month after major reopening is when I would predict a noticeable trend in surge of cases. We are essentially a month after most things opened in places like Texas and Florida and we are seeing the sustained increases.

Texas allowed restaurants, barber shops, etc. to open on May 18th. You can see a noticeable change in inflection point in case curves about 1-week later that only grew. 100% consistent with opening too soon without plans in place.

https://www.keranews.org/post/did-texas-reopen-too-soon

Florida went to phase 2 of the reopening the same day. They see a noticeable change in inflection point about a week and a half later.

Both are consistent with what you would expect to observe in regard to timelines for opening too soon.

Importantly, both states were very poor at testing when they reopened, and occur in areas where buy-in for social distancing and preventive measures are low. I'm not saying opening was necessarily bad, that is a more complicated argument, but the trends are exactly what you would expect in terms of timelines for reopening too soon.

Agreed. The timing is essentially perfect to correlate reopening to the resurgence in states where cases are increasing.

As to the disparity between places like TX, AZ and FL where cases are increasing vs the midwest and northeast where cases are decreasing, I think much of that can be attributed to the seriousness with which people in those parts of the country take social distancing, masks and such. Here in MN, it has been several weeks since I last saw a person in a grocery store without a mask. And cases in MN are declining steadily. Video I have seen from TX, FL and such seems to show a very different story.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 20, 2020, 01:55:50 PM

Tulsa, and so it begins:

https://apnews.com/23796a826ba86619527363b92ed49a33?utm_medium=AP&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on June 20, 2020, 01:58:44 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on June 20, 2020, 11:17:09 AM

I can’t speak for Eng but I share some of his sentiments.

And I don’t think it’s absolution. I’m sure he’s not speaking to people calling it a hoax or saying death counts would be lower than a flu season. But rather to the alternative to those championing most of the fearful projections.


Maybe they didn’t say “we are all gonna die” but there were people warning against people dropping dead on flights, bodies in the streets, broad deaths across all age groups, lockdowns into 2021, etc... That level of dire projections haven’t come true

Now you have places meeting metrics, beginning reponening, and people immediately began cautioning on the second wave how bad this was still gonna be, etc and I think people got fed up and over confident, which is what he’s speaking to.  And I’m not talking AZ or FL, I’m talking to the reaction of people in places like WI, OH, IL that are managing well. That sort of constant paranoia generation in the face of improving situations doesn’t breed vigilance, it breeds exhaustion and defiance.

I do think the irony here is the states I mentioned flattened the curve whereas the recent hotspots never did as they “started” their curves latter and opened prematurely. But here we are

Yeah, I'm still not buying the logic here.
I mean, first, I can think of no one in authority or a scientist who's been given a substantial platform here who's said "We're all going to die" or "there will be bodies in the street," etc. So unless I'm mistaken about that, the premise is false to begin with.
But for sake of argument, let's say that message was being put out there by political leaders or scientific experts. You argument then becomes "Because of some dire warnings, some people ignored ALL warnings, and neither the the fault of those people or those who encouraged them, but the fault of the people who gave the warnings."
I hurt my brain just typing that, because it makes no sense.

If a meteorologist warns of a Category 5 hurricane, but some people ignore the warning and get wiped out when a Category 4 passes through, do you blame the meteorologist, or the idiots who decided to ride it out? By your logic, the meteorologist shares the blame.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on June 20, 2020, 02:13:57 PM

Appreciate your response, eng.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 20, 2020, 02:14:41 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on June 20, 2020, 01:55:50 PM

Tulsa, and so it begins:

https://apnews.com/23796a826ba86619527363b92ed49a33?utm_medium=AP&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter

Campaign officials say everyone who is attending the rally will be given temperature checks before they pass through security. They will also be given masks to wear, if they want, and hand sanitizer at the 19,000-seat BOK Center.

-----------

It's going to be 88 and sunny in Tulsa this afternoon and people have been standing in line to get in since yesterday...and they're going to do temperature checks at Security (likely outside the venue)? Hint: lots of people will have elevated readings simply because they have been out in the sun on a hot day.

And given that the masks are optional, this picture of people in line might give a hint as to how many will agree to wear them....

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/06/20/nation/trump-supporters-line-up-rally-tulsa-with-thousands-people-expected-attend/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on June 20, 2020, 02:21:33 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on June 20, 2020, 01:58:44 PM

Yeah, I'm still not buying the logic here.
I mean, first, I can think of no one in authority or a scientist who's been given a substantial platform here who's said "We're all going to die" or "there will be bodies in the street," etc. So unless I'm mistaken about that, the premise is false to begin with.
But for sake of argument, let's say that message was being put out there by political leaders or scientific experts. You argument then becomes "Because of some dire warnings, some people ignored ALL warnings, and neither the the fault of those people or those who encouraged them, but the fault of the people who gave the warnings."
I hurt my brain just typing that, because it makes no sense.

If a meteorologist warns of a Category 5 hurricane, but some people ignore the warning and get wiped out when a Category 4 passes through, do you blame the meteorologist, or the idiots who decided to ride it out? By your logic, the meteorologist shares the blame.

Eng addressed a lot of what I’m thinking, but for conversation sake.

Are we only talking people here? Cause there have been plenty of doom and gloom people given a platform either on news stations or online platforms that people can easily have exposed to, not talking what’s been championed here. Cause I thought he convo was the country as a whole.

And where did I ever f-ing absolve people being reckless? All I’ve done is explain where I understand some of the mentality of those who might not necessarily have been the “masks are against my liberty and this is a hoax” crowd. And where are you getting “ignored all warnings”. We’re talking people who went through a lockdown and caution and are now being extra cavalier. That isn’t justifying it, but I can see some of the COVID exhaustion from various angles that lead to apathy.

And I think it’s more projecting a CAT 5 hurricane to sweep across and ravage the US and instead it slammed a couple states and everywhere else got rain and some flooding. There is plenty of blame to go around, it doesn’t have to be completely tribal

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on June 20, 2020, 02:24:39 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 20, 2020, 01:34:15 PM

Agreed. The timing is essentially perfect to correlate reopening to the resurgence in states where cases are increasing.

As to the disparity between places like TX, AZ and FL where cases are increasing vs the midwest and northeast where cases are decreasing, I think much of that can be attributed to the seriousness with which people in those parts of the country take social distancing, masks and such. Here in MN, it has been several weeks since I last saw a person in a grocery store without a mask. And cases in MN are declining steadily. Video I have seen from TX, FL and such seems to show a very different story.

It is not a re-opening thing it is more of a not flattening the curve thing. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on June 20, 2020, 02:29:39 PM

JWags ... appreciate your response and I'll mostly drop it, but one point - eng brought Trump in with his response and now you've suggested tribalism.  Just to be clear, I've written nothing about the president or politics in my comments to you guys.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 20, 2020, 03:10:06 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on June 20, 2020, 02:24:39 PM

It is not a re-opening thing it is more of a not flattening the curve thing.

I would define it has a “reopening before they flattened the curve” thing, with social distancing and masks also a big factor.

Some places (like Wisconsin and Minnesota) reopened before the curve was truly flattened, yet are still seeing a downward trend today. In my opinion, the consequences of the premature reopening was significantly mitigated by people exercising common sense. In other states (like Texas, Arizona and Florida), people don’t seem to be taking precautionary measures as seriously, so cases continue to rise.

There are almost certainly other factors at play as well, but re-opening without having flattened the curve was a big deal, as are precautionary measures.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on June 20, 2020, 03:32:33 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 20, 2020, 03:10:06 PM

I would define it has a “reopening before they flattened the curve” thing, with social distancing and masks also a big factor.

Some places (like Wisconsin and Minnesota) reopened before the curve was truly flattened, yet are still seeing a downward trend today. In my opinion, the consequences of the premature reopening was significantly mitigated by people exercising common sense. In other states (like Texas, Arizona and Florida), people don’t seem to be taking precautionary measures as seriously, so cases continue to rise.

There are almost certainly other factors at play as well, but re-opening without having flattened the curve was a big deal, as are precautionary measures.

I agree. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on June 20, 2020, 04:07:33 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on June 20, 2020, 02:29:39 PM

JWags ... appreciate your response and I'll mostly drop it, but one point - eng brought Trump in with his response and now you've suggested tribalism.  Just to be clear, I've written nothing about the president or politics in my comments to you guys.

Appreciated. It’s incredibly muddy by this point, but FWIW I wasn’t angle towards politics either. I feel even back in the early stages, there was the “the pandemic is gonna be horrific” camp and the “it’s being overblown” camp, before political lines were drawn. That’s more the tribalism I was leaning towards. People choosing their outlook and going with it

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on June 20, 2020, 04:41:20 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on June 20, 2020, 04:07:33 PM

Appreciated. It’s incredibly muddy by this point, but FWIW I wasn’t angle towards politics either. I feel even back in the early stages, there was the “the pandemic is gonna be horrific” camp and the “it’s being overblown” camp, before political lines were drawn. That’s more the tribalism I was leaning towards. People choosing their outlook and going with it

That's fair.
I think we're all guilty of that with many things (see Nojos va Projos).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 20, 2020, 06:01:23 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on June 20, 2020, 01:55:50 PM

Tulsa, and so it begins:

https://apnews.com/23796a826ba86619527363b92ed49a33?utm_medium=AP&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter

Well, a positive for COVID-19 spread purposes, at least the crowd is much smaller than the million advertised. Outside was canceled, inside less than half full this far.

https://twitter.com/Politidope/status/1274473702227353605?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 20, 2020, 06:13:48 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on June 20, 2020, 06:01:23 PM

Well, a positive for COVID-19 spread purposes, at least the crowd is much smaller than the million advertised. Outside was canceled, inside less than half full this far.

https://twitter.com/Politidope/status/1274473702227353605?s=19

Having a rally in Tulsa was weird, anyway.  Oklahoma is safely (R).  This was the worse case scenario.  Honestly, if I’m an Oklahoman, I’d have been fine if this rally was elsewhere and you had less outsiders pouring in

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on June 20, 2020, 06:51:02 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on June 20, 2020, 04:07:33 PM

Appreciated. It’s incredibly muddy by this point, but FWIW I wasn’t angle towards politics either. I feel even back in the early stages, there was the “the pandemic is gonna be horrific” camp and the “it’s being overblown” camp, before political lines were drawn. That’s more the tribalism I was leaning towards. People choosing their outlook and going with it

That a disingenuous take. The pandemic is going to be horrific group camp never existed. It was it’s going to be horrific if we don’t lock down and give science and medical experts a chance camp. You conveniently left that part out.
You seem to be the person that they warned us about. The after the lockdown “see told you it wasn’t that bad, the virus wasn’t bad after all” group.
Most were pro science, realizing that things can change as we learn more.
In Florida, the median age of people that have got the virus has plummeted in the last couple of weeks.

Not sure why wear a mask, practice social distancing, wash your hands suddenly tribal, but it is.


Corrected to say tests not deaths.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on June 20, 2020, 07:21:39 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on June 20, 2020, 06:51:02 PM

That a disingenuous take. The pandemic is going to be horrific group camp never existed. It was it’s going to be horrific if we don’t lock down and give science and medical experts a chance camp. You conveniently left that part out.
You seem to be the person that they warned us about. The after the lockdown “see told you it wasn’t that bad, the virus wasn’t bad after all” group.
Most were pro science, realizing that things can change as we learn more.
In Florida, the median age of people that have dies has plummeted in the last couple of weeks. No longer is the “it just impacts old people” narrative valid.

Not sure why wear a mask, practice social distancing, wash your hands suddenly tribal, but it is.

pb check your facts the age for deaths is not down the age for those infected is.

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-coronavirus-florida-younger-20200620-zdbyrk6h25cwxak5h74cchirke-story.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on June 20, 2020, 07:28:21 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on June 20, 2020, 07:21:39 PM

pb check your facts the age for deaths is not down the age for those infected is.

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-coronavirus-florida-younger-20200620-zdbyrk6h25cwxak5h74cchirke-story.html

You are right.  Thanks. Will fix . My point still stands about the rest.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on June 20, 2020, 09:15:10 PM

"When you do testing to that extent, you are going to find more people, you will find more cases. So I said slow the testing down."
—Trump on trying to keep the number of reported COVID cases low
6/20/20

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 20, 2020, 09:28:45 PM

Quote from: Mutaman on June 20, 2020, 09:15:10 PM

"When you do testing to that extent, you are going to find more people, you will find more cases. So I said slow the testing down."
—Trump on trying to keep the number of reported COVID cases low
6/20/20

Big win for Muguru

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 20, 2020, 10:02:54 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on June 20, 2020, 06:01:23 PM

Well, a positive for COVID-19 spread purposes, at least the crowd is much smaller than the million advertised. Outside was canceled, inside less than half full this far.

https://twitter.com/Politidope/status/1274473702227353605?s=19

This is the funniest story of 2020. President Pandemic totally punked  by a bunch of kids. Hilarious!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 20, 2020, 10:38:29 PM

Quote from: Mutaman on June 20, 2020, 09:15:10 PM

"When you do testing to that extent, you are going to find more people, you will find more cases. So I said slow the testing down."
—Trump on trying to keep the number of reported COVID cases low
6/20/20

Really it’s indefensible. Everyone knows it. Everyone knows the last couple of months have been a disaster. Wonder how many will have the guts to admit it come November?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on June 20, 2020, 11:29:34 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on June 20, 2020, 06:51:02 PM

That a disingenuous take. The pandemic is going to be horrific group camp never existed. It was it’s going to be horrific if we don’t lock down and give science and medical experts a chance camp. You conveniently left that part out.
You seem to be the person that they warned us about. The after the lockdown “see told you it wasn’t that bad, the virus wasn’t bad after all” group.
Most were pro science, realizing that things can change as we learn more.
In Florida, the median age of people that have got the virus has plummeted in the last couple of weeks.

Not sure why wear a mask, practice social distancing, wash your hands suddenly tribal, but it is.


Corrected to say tests not deaths.

I’m disingenuous? I don’t have the patience of desire to start pulling articles or tweets from 2 months ago, but there were plenty of “warnings” about horrific consequences if the lockdown wasn’t indefinite. Calls for a halt to “normal” life well into 2021.  Wanton warnings about how this disease ravaged those of all ages as support for why longer scale lockdowns were needed.

Never once in any of my posts have I said “see told you it wasn’t that bad, the virus wasn’t bad after all”.  I’ve shown outsized worry about economic impacts and still very much feel that this virus is a non issue for a vast swath of the population, on an individual level, but that’s a far cry from “this was a hoax” or “this was just a flu”. I’ve never railed against mask wearing, clamored for dropping all precautions, or any of the BS you imply.

What people fail to acknowledge is the insidiousness of the camp of people who breathlessly report every uptick in cases or anecdotal story of an outbreak as fodder for “the second wave is going to be far worse” narratives. We’ve talked about it as nauseum. That’s the tribalism I speak of. You acting like the two camps are “F OFF, I DONT NEED A MASK” and “all we are asking is for people to wear a mask and practice social distance and food hygiene” is bizarrely disingenuous and blind to the more extreme factions cause they more closely align with your beliefs.

I can’t stand anyone who thinks they are too good for a mask or uses some stupid trope about freedom to justify it. But I also am equally sick of everyone pointing out a XX.X% increase in cases or positive tests in a locale with no reference to hospitalization numbers or trends, that likely bear out no severity of infections or cause for mortality concerns.  That kind of constant fear stoking eventually exhausts and desensitizes people and leads to recklessness cause people literally say “screw it” without something on their doorstep confirming it. I’m not saying that’s right or ok, but it’s not a unique phenomenon.

Tribalism is the BS that caused you to deem me what you did simply cause I don’t sit nice and tidy in your camp.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on June 20, 2020, 11:51:29 PM

Look at Europe. They are what we should strive toward. You can actually travel within Europe. They didn’t shut down until 2021. People here said we had to shut down until we  reduced the curve enough to do contact tracing. We haven’t reduced the curve at all and done no prep work for contact tracing.
So while it will be likely that our economy won’t be anywhere near normal until 2021, that is just due to American Freedom to be stupid.
Europe figured it out. We can’t do what they did because capitalism! Freedom! Other buzzwords!
As a nation, we’ve plateaued. We don’t follow even the most basic guidelines set by the CDC. Most states aren’t even trying to contact trace.
And it isn’t magically going away.
Our company isn’t planning on travel until at least 2021 and our customers have told us the same. NBA will not be showing up in Orlando in a month.
Reality is that it will be next year before there is any return to normal. You say people were saying we need To shut down until 2021. That wasn’t any large group or anyone in power, yet it seems to be the actual outcome.
Our local Home Depot had an employee test positive for Covid, yet they still don’t require employees or customers to wear masks, because Freedom!
Sorry you are offended that predictions that Americans are too stupid to handle this are coming true on a national level.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 20, 2020, 11:55:14 PM

Over 120,000 Americans have died from this pandemic in four months. That’s more than 25% of worldwide deaths in under 5% of the world population. We passed horrific a few weeks ago.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 21, 2020, 05:01:05 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 20, 2020, 11:55:14 PM

Over 120,000 Americans have died from this pandemic in four months. That’s more than 25% of worldwide deaths in under 5% of the world population. We passed horrific a few weeks ago.

We’re still average though in the west, death wise.  The difference is that the first wave is done in EU while we have persistent spread.  So we are dealing with the economic and health consequences and carry more risk to the fall. 

For Wags. Life isn’t normal — it’s different and will likely be that way until a vaccine.  I think you can be mad at the media but some of it is a function of your news feed/internet.  If you read good journalism you will be informed.  If you want to be mad, there are plenty of places to find that on the internet too. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 21, 2020, 07:02:50 AM

Decades of misplaced resources and breeding the notion that government is evil has lead to where we are right now.  A lot of people want to mock Europe for various reasons, but they are by and large performing much better than we are.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 21, 2020, 08:01:43 AM

Test and trace

https://mobile.twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1274682110608097280 (https://mobile.twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1274682110608097280)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 21, 2020, 08:42:35 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 21, 2020, 08:01:43 AM

Test and trace

https://mobile.twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1274682110608097280 (https://mobile.twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1274682110608097280)

Agreed - I have been singing this tune for weeks. But it appears Americans have to make a choice: get over their "privacy" concerns, or face a punishing second wave.

N.Y.C. Hired 3,000 Workers for Contact Tracing. It’s Not Going Well.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/21/nyregion/nyc-contact-tracing.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

The city’s program has so far been limited by a low response rate, scant use of technology, privacy concerns and a far less sweeping mandate than that in some other countries, where apartment buildings, stores, restaurants and other private businesses are often required to collect visitors’ personal information, which makes tracking the spread easier.

China, South Korea and Germany and other countries have set up extensive tracking programs that have helped officials make major strides in reducing the outbreak. In South Korea, for example, people at weddings, funerals, karaoke bars, nightclubs and internet-game parlors write down their names and telephone numbers, and the authorities have been able to draw on cellphone location data, credit card transactions and even closed-circuit video footage to identify and isolate potential contacts.

----------

Given the tendency of many Americans to see any restrictions as "Big Government taking away my freedom," I fear that our society is going to sacrifice lives and the economy in the name of "freedom."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on June 21, 2020, 10:30:28 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 21, 2020, 05:01:05 AM

We’re still average though in the west, death wise.  The difference is that the first wave is done in EU while we have persistent spread.  So we are dealing with the economic and health consequences and carry more risk to the fall. 

For Wags. Life isn’t normal — it’s different and will likely be that way until a vaccine.  I think you can be mad at the media but some of it is a function of your news feed/internet.  If you read good journalism you will be informed.  If you want to be mad, there are plenty of places to find that on the internet too.

I agree with this. There is a function of the media now, good or bad, that needs to constantly churn content. “Following” a story doesn’t drive clicks like mentioning how amazing a state is doing or how destined for certain doom.

I read a lot of sources across the board cause I need to be informed professionally, and that’s just how I’ve always tried to curate my info. My twitter feed ranges from people I follow for finance/trading info who think a Clay Travis’s takes are gospel and that Fauci is power hungry to writers and other content creators who may as well have Bernie’s face tattooed on their neck. It’s important to consume it on various levels to make your own assessments. Which makes it extra annoying when people throw mini tantrums like above to shove me into a perceived box and give me a proper lashing my stupidity that they feel those in that box deserve.

I realize this is the “new normal” for the mid term future. I realize the likelihood of me traveling to Asia for work, much less Europe, for the balance of the year is very small. The near term struggles of companies who have an international focus or brick and mortar sales channels will continue is to struggle. This is reality. There is also reality that there very much is news/update/warning exhaustion.  I don’t have answers to how to fix it, but calling anyone who experiences it stupid, or selfish, or whatever certainly doesn’t improve the US’s progress through it, doesn’t improve adoption of it, etc...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 21, 2020, 10:57:33 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 21, 2020, 08:01:43 AM

Test and trace

https://mobile.twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1274682110608097280 (https://mobile.twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1274682110608097280)

Yeah this feels real high on the no crap, basic blocking and tackling meter.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 21, 2020, 09:41:04 PM

Bill Maher had former Obama national security advisor Susan Rice on his show Friday. She said that in the time leading to the transition to Trump taking over, she spent considerable time preparing a detailed playbook for a pandemic for her successor, Michael Flynn.

“I briefed on pandemics in various different settings with General Flynn. And yes, this Pandemics For Dummies playbook, as I like to call it ...  was to give the incoming staff the wherewithal to ask the right questions early on in the event of a pandemic. Because we knew that a pandemic was all but inevitable. We didn’t know when; we didn’t know what form it would take.

“So as important as it was to be prepared with respect to China or Russia or Iran, in our estimation it was to be prepared with respect to a pandemic. Obviously, they weren’t.

“Now whether Michael Flynn or one of his successors or somebody on their staff put the pandemic playbook on the shelf to collect dust, or in the garbage bin, I can’t say for sure. Flynn wasn’t in the job long enough probably to unpack much less to start throwing things away.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 22, 2020, 07:12:40 AM

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1274816278197342209?s=19

Mexico thread.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 22, 2020, 07:51:08 AM

From Sunday AP article:

In California, much of the increase in the total number of cases does appear to be a result of more testing, health officials say. That does not fully explain the overall caseload increase in several other states, however, public experts say, directly contradicting a major talking point by the president and some of his aides.

In some of the most affected states, such as Florida and Arizona, not only are larger proportions of tests coming back positive, but more of the afflicted are becoming sicker, Thomas Inglesby of Johns Hopkins' School of Public Health said in an interview on Fox News Sunday.

"What we are seeing is increased positivity in testing, and in many cases increased hospitalization," Inglesby said. "That's not just because we're doing more testing in a state; that's because there is more serious disease in a state."

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis conceded that point at a news conference Saturday in Tallahassee, saying that even with test rates flat or increasing, "the number of people testing positive is accelerating faster than that."

Obviously, the spike in the South and Southwest is not just from more testing. It is from people refusing to acknowledge actual danger and taking the simplest steps to try to alleviate the situation. It is from national leadership that mocks social distancing and wearing masks, rather than encouraging it. It is largely from ignorance and denial of reality in a desperate attempt to win an election.

When DeSantis -- probably the biggest Trump toady among all U.S. governors and a "leader"  who has refused to release accurate data on COVID-19 deaths and hospitalizations -- admits publicly that it is beyond just more testing, you know that the numbers are WAY worse than just because of more testing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 22, 2020, 09:34:38 AM

Quote from: MU82 on June 22, 2020, 07:51:08 AM

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis conceded that point at a news conference Saturday in Tallahassee, saying that even with test rates flat or increasing, "the number of people testing positive is accelerating faster than that."[/i]

....

When DeSantis -- probably the biggest Trump toady among all U.S. governors and a "leader"  who has refused to release accurate data on COVID-19 deaths and hospitalizations -- admits publicly that it is beyond just more testing, you know that the numbers are WAY worse than just because of more testing.

I never would have expected DeSantis to say this. My fear is that it means the growing wave in FL may be even worse than we have been expecting, and that DeSantis had to weigh his loyalty to Trump vs how bad he would look if he continues to dismiss the increases and then FL becomes the new epicenter.

The key though, as always, will be if DeSantis has the will to turn his knowledge into action. That could mean slowing the rate of reopening, mandating masks, canceling or dramatically restricting the RNC, or something else significant. If he doesn't do any of that, his pessimistic words will just fade into the ether as the wave grows.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on June 22, 2020, 12:32:37 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 22, 2020, 09:34:38 AM

I never would have expected DeSantis to say this. My fear is that it means the growing wave in FL may be even worse than we have been expecting, and that DeSantis had to weigh his loyalty to Trump vs how bad he would look if he continues to dismiss the increases and then FL becomes the new epicenter.

The key though, as always, will be if DeSantis has the will to turn his knowledge into action. That could mean slowing the rate of reopening, mandating masks, canceling or dramatically restricting the RNC, or something else significant. If he doesn't do any of that, his pessimistic words will just fade into the ether as the wave grows.

He won't.

Hundreds of complaints, zero penalties for bars, restaurants violating Florida reopening rules
https://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/local/state/2020/06/22/many-complaints-but-no-penalties-violating-florida-reopening-rules/3219321001

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on June 22, 2020, 12:41:07 PM

Speaking of Florida, this hasn't aged well.

‘Where Does Ron DeSantis Go to Get His Apology?’
By Rich Lowry
May 20, 2020 11:39 AM

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/where-does-ron-desantis-go-to-get-his-apology/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 22, 2020, 12:45:12 PM

When DeSantis -- probably the biggest Trump toady among all U.S. governors and a "leader"  who has refused to release accurate data on COVID-19 deaths and hospitalizations -- admits publicly that it is beyond just more testing, you know that the numbers are WAY worse than just because of more testing.
[/quote]

Damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t - eh, Mike?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 22, 2020, 01:00:33 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 22, 2020, 12:45:12 PM

When DeSantis -- probably the biggest Trump toady among all U.S. governors and a "leader"  who has refused to release accurate data on COVID-19 deaths and hospitalizations -- admits publicly that it is beyond just more testing, you know that the numbers are WAY worse than just because of more testing.


Damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t - eh, Mike?

Not sure what you're asking ... if he is "damned" because he finally tells the truth about COVID-19 data in Florida?

I think Gooooooooooooooo hits the nail on the head here:

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 22, 2020, 09:34:38 AM

I never would have expected DeSantis to say this. My fear is that it means the growing wave in FL may be even worse than we have been expecting, and that DeSantis had to weigh his loyalty to Trump vs how bad he would look if he continues to dismiss the increases and then FL becomes the new epicenter.

The key though, as always, will be if DeSantis has the will to turn his knowledge into action. That could mean slowing the rate of reopening, mandating masks, canceling or dramatically restricting the RNC, or something else significant. If he doesn't do any of that, his pessimistic words will just fade into the ether as the wave grows.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on June 22, 2020, 01:46:03 PM

There is a very simple reason for the reluctance to do proper tracking and tracing of cases from the federal level. If contact tracing and quarantine measures were done properly, you'd see significant business closures due to lack of staff. The result would be a partially closed economy for months.

Those that run things do not want that. So we will not get proper contact tracing. Unless it is anonymous app based tracing, where quarantine is strictly voluntary.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 22, 2020, 01:56:05 PM

While we are talking Florida, I saw two noteworthy numbers today.

Between June 7-21, the new daily cases in Duval County (Jax - RNC) went from 21.7 to 130.3
Between June 7-21, the new daily cases in Orange County (Disney - NBA) went from 49.6 to 254.9

Plenty of decisions to be made....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 22, 2020, 02:58:16 PM

Another red-state governor, Abbott in Texas, sounding the alarm ...

https://twitter.com/tplohetski/status/1275143848818327552

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 22, 2020, 03:05:42 PM

Quote from: MU82 on June 22, 2020, 02:58:16 PM

Another red-state governor, Abbott in Texas, sounding the alarm ...

https://twitter.com/tplohetski/status/1275143848818327552

Smart.  I actually think Abbott has one of the toughest gov jobs in a pandemic.  The geography, spans of rural and urban and the libertarian streak in tx makes it very diverse set of people to lead.  The virus doesn’t care about any of that and it’s going to take us all working together to have fight it. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 22, 2020, 03:21:24 PM

The thing that's scary in places like Florida and Texas is that, even if everyone starts wearing a mask, distancing, etc. that it will still be ten to fourteen days before it has any impact.

This has all been very predictable.  The rhetoric around reopening was going to cause some states to open too fast, and without proper precautions in place.  And now things may need to be shut down in some manner again. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 22, 2020, 03:49:53 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 22, 2020, 03:21:24 PM

The thing that's scary in places like Florida and Texas is that, even if everyone starts wearing a mask, distancing, etc. that it will still be ten to fourteen days before it has any impact.

This has all been very predictable.  The rhetoric around reopening was going to cause some states to open too fast, and without proper precautions in place.  And now things may need to be shut down in some manner again.

Agreed. And the impact that we may see in 10 to 14 days will only be the beginning of a slight decrease in the upward trajectory. Actually flattening the curve and then seeing it turn downward will take at least several weeks beyond that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 22, 2020, 04:02:39 PM

I agree with everything said, but this is inevitable with the path we have chosen.  If not now, in the fall that there will be relapse to deal with. 

The TX gov certainly opened too early or conversely the people failed to be socially distant with masks/precautions.  I believe though he has taken this seriously all along and they have hospital capacity and a plan to surge if necessary. 

So i hope they are successful, show a continuation of the improved outcome on treatment/mortality.  Selfishly I also hope they can change their behavior without shut-down and wrestle control back.  Will show us all its possible for when we likely have this in portions of our state or cities down the road.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 22, 2020, 04:05:45 PM

I would be pretty surprised if either Abbott or DeSantis roll back anything in a material way.

It seems like they are all-in, and maybe they have enough support from the majority of their constituents to say, "We've got to keep our economy rolling, even if it means some bad consequences for a relative few."

Maybe they try a targeted approach, taking extra precautions in the major metro areas that are most affected while letting more rural areas stay fully operational. It will be interesting to watch.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 22, 2020, 05:09:00 PM

As red state Govs are starting to get worried that people are noticing how much they have screwed the pooch on this, the White House is actively trying to reduce testing to benefit Trump.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/coronavirus-testing-trump_n_5ef0df9ac5b68f12e4e5353a


Without doubt, this is the biggest failure ever by an American president in dealing with a crisis.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on June 22, 2020, 05:59:02 PM

Quote from: MU82 on June 22, 2020, 04:05:45 PM

I would be pretty surprised if either Abbott or DeSantis roll back anything in a material way.

It seems like they are all-in, and maybe they have enough support from the majority of their constituents to say, "We've got to keep our economy rolling, even if it means some bad consequences for a relative few."

Maybe they try a targeted approach, taking extra precautions in the major metro areas that are most affected while letting more rural areas stay fully operational. It will be interesting to watch.

I can only speak for Texas, but the targeted approach will be the game plan. My good friend is on Abbott’s staff in a fairly high ranking role.  While he, and obviously Abbott, are pretty staunch Republicans, there’s been no “it’s a hoax” mentality or denial in their internal ranks. They had difficult balances given the relatively mild spread there early on and the challenges of balancing Houston, Dallas, Austin all in varying places and outlooks, without them factoring in large rural populations.  And Frenns is correct. While numbers are concerning, they have significant contingency plans in place.

To make matters even more difficult, Texas is one of the few states where the Lt Gov has significant powers and is elected separately, and Dan Patrick is a complete grifter/lunatic that they have to work against. To say the two camps don’t get along is to put it mildly.

We butt heads on certain issues, and I certainly have my issues with Abbott and Texas politics, but he and Abbott are in a VERY difficult position with this all, regardless.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on June 22, 2020, 06:17:21 PM

Quote from: Jockey on June 22, 2020, 05:09:00 PM

Without doubt, this is the biggest failure ever by an American president in dealing with a crisis.

Hoover and the depression vs Trump and covid? What's a bigger failure -having a plan that makes things worse or having no plan at all?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 22, 2020, 06:17:54 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on June 22, 2020, 05:59:02 PM

I can only speak for Texas, but the targeted approach will be the game plan. My good friend is on Abbott’s staff in a fairly high ranking role.  While he, and obviously Abbott, are pretty staunch Republicans, there’s been no “it’s a hoax” mentality or denial in their internal ranks. They had difficult balances given the relatively mild spread there early on and the challenges of balancing Houston, Dallas, Austin all in varying places and outlooks, without them factoring in large rural populations.  And Frenns is correct. While numbers are concerning, they have significant contingency plans in place.

To make matters even more difficult, Texas is one of the few states where the Lt Gov has significant powers and is elected separately, and Dan Patrick is a complete grifter/lunatic that they have to work against. To say the two camps don’t get along is to put it mildly.

We butt heads on certain issues, and I certainly have my issues with Abbott and Texas politics, but he and Abbott are in a VERY difficult position with this all, regardless.

Patrick's the one who said most older Texans would volunteer to die, right?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 22, 2020, 06:47:51 PM

Quote from: MU82 on June 22, 2020, 06:17:54 PM

Patrick's the one who said most older Texans would volunteer to die, right?

Patrick is kinda old. Hope he is at the front of the line.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on June 22, 2020, 06:49:02 PM

Quote from: MU82 on June 22, 2020, 06:17:54 PM

Patrick's the one who said most older Texans would volunteer to die, right?

Yep. And the same guy who was a corny, schtick heavy failed sports radio host who “reinvented himself” as a conservative evangelical political talk radio personality

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 22, 2020, 06:50:35 PM

Interesting perspective on Texas, Wags. I hope Abbott gives a targeted approach a shot, and the state makes some headway.

I agree with what both you and 82 are saying – he has an awfully difficult job given the makeup of the state.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 22, 2020, 07:25:45 PM

Quote from: Mutaman on June 22, 2020, 06:17:21 PM

Hoover and the depression vs Trump and covid? What's a bigger failure -having a plan that makes things worse or having no plan at all?

That is a good comparison, Muta.

To me the difference is that Hoover didn't purposely try to sabotage the country. He was just inept. The current guy is obviously inept, but is also actively trying to undermine the effort against Covid. He is fighting against more testing. He is fighting against the use of masks. He is using the crisis to try to turn American against American.

Hoover can't stand up to this level of ineptitude.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 22, 2020, 08:11:44 PM

Dream City Church. Yuma, AZ:

https://twitter.com/VaughnHillyard/status/1275145487851458561?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on June 22, 2020, 08:16:10 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on June 22, 2020, 08:11:44 PM

Dream City Church. Yuma, AZ:

https://twitter.com/VaughnHillyard/status/1275145487851458561?s=19

Ionizicetion. MAGA!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 22, 2020, 08:22:46 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on June 22, 2020, 08:11:44 PM

Dream City Church. Yuma, AZ:

https://twitter.com/VaughnHillyard/status/1275145487851458561?s=19

The name of the church is quite appropriate.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on June 22, 2020, 08:23:18 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on June 22, 2020, 08:11:44 PM

Dream City Church. Yuma, AZ:

https://twitter.com/VaughnHillyard/status/1275145487851458561?s=19

Brawndo also kills 99.9 percent of COVID-19. It's got electrolytes!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on June 22, 2020, 08:23:40 PM

Well this is going to be a setback. The White House guy who used an excel trend line formula to show the number of cases would be 0 in June resigned today.

White House adviser Kevin Hassett leaving administration:
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/503839-white-house-adviser-kevin-hassett-leaving-administration-report


 https://mobile.twitter.com/WhiteHouseCEA/status/1257680258364555264/photo/1

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 22, 2020, 09:37:01 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on June 22, 2020, 08:11:44 PM

Dream City Church. Yuma, AZ:

https://twitter.com/VaughnHillyard/status/1275145487851458561?s=19

Meanwhile, at a church in Austin, TX:

https://twitter.com/rossramsey/status/1275192128377892868?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 23, 2020, 08:19:13 AM

Deep dive why wear a mask, includes 172 studies:

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/06/21/880832213/yes-wearing-masks-helps-heres-why?utm_campaign=storyshare&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 23, 2020, 08:56:11 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on June 22, 2020, 08:23:18 PM

Brawndo also kills 99.9 percent of COVID-19. It's got electrolytes!

Love the Idiocracy reference!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 23, 2020, 09:01:33 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on June 23, 2020, 08:19:13 AM

Deep dive why wear a mask, includes 172 studies:

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/06/21/880832213/yes-wearing-masks-helps-heres-why?utm_campaign=storyshare&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social

At my Post Office stop yesterday all 10 people in line had a mask except the guy in front of me.  His first words to the Postman behind the counter in a southern a
accent was, "I'm just a gentleman from the South."  Bizarre.

The guy in front of him had everyone laughing.  He was going to take off his mask to lick his envelope and the Postman stopped him with a "Whoah, whoah, whoah!  We're not doing that anymore.  Please hand to me and I'll tape it closed."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 23, 2020, 09:11:32 AM

Novak Djokovic has tested positive for coronavirus

https://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/id/29351887/novak-djokovic-tested-positive-coronavirus

Djokovic has been criticized for organizing the tournament and bringing in players from other countries amid the coronavirus pandemic. There were no social distancing measures observed at the matches in either country.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on June 23, 2020, 11:01:34 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on June 22, 2020, 05:59:02 PM

I can only speak for Texas, but the targeted approach will be the game plan. My good friend is on Abbott’s staff in a fairly high ranking role.  While he, and obviously Abbott, are pretty staunch Republicans, there’s been no “it’s a hoax” mentality or denial in their internal ranks. They had difficult balances given the relatively mild spread there early on and the challenges of balancing Houston, Dallas, Austin all in varying places and outlooks, without them factoring in large rural populations.  And Frenns is correct. While numbers are concerning, they have significant contingency plans in place.

To make matters even more difficult, Texas is one of the few states where the Lt Gov has significant powers and is elected separately, and Dan Patrick is a complete grifter/lunatic that they have to work against. To say the two camps don’t get along is to put it mildly.

We butt heads on certain issues, and I certainly have my issues with Abbott and Texas politics, but he and Abbott are in a VERY difficult position with this all, regardless.

What you are saying may be his plan now, but this is not what Abbott did at all. He ignored the fact that Texas has varying places and outlooks, and instead superseded all local governments in mandating that they all open, whether they were ready or not. He declared that no local governments could make their own orders, including about such simple things as masks.

It was an unmitigated disaster and led to a significant resurgence in cases. He has now backed off that central leadership and will allow local governments to make rules on masks, but the rules and policies are not targeted, they are blanket across the entire state, and often defy scientific input.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 23, 2020, 11:17:46 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on June 22, 2020, 05:59:02 PM

I can only speak for Texas, but the targeted approach will be the game plan. My good friend is on Abbott’s staff in a fairly high ranking role.  While he, and obviously Abbott, are pretty staunch Republicans, there’s been no “it’s a hoax” mentality or denial in their internal ranks. They had difficult balances given the relatively mild spread there early on and the challenges of balancing Houston, Dallas, Austin all in varying places and outlooks, without them factoring in large rural populations.  And Frenns is correct. While numbers are concerning, they have significant contingency plans in place.

To make matters even more difficult, Texas is one of the few states where the Lt Gov has significant powers and is elected separately, and Dan Patrick is a complete grifter/lunatic that they have to work against. To say the two camps don’t get along is to put it mildly.

We butt heads on certain issues, and I certainly have my issues with Abbott and Texas politics, but he and Abbott are in a VERY difficult position with this all, regardless.

The results in Texas speak to its "leadership" from the governor's office.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on June 23, 2020, 11:18:37 AM

Quote from: forgetful on June 23, 2020, 11:01:34 AM

What you are saying may be his plan now, but this is not what Abbott did at all. He ignored the fact that Texas has varying places and outlooks, and instead superseded all local governments in mandating that they all open, whether they were ready or not. He declared that no local governments could make their own orders, including about such simple things as masks.

It was an unmitigated disaster and led to a significant resurgence in cases. He has now backed off that central leadership and will allow local governments to make rules on masks, but the rules and policies are not targeted, they are blanket across the entire state, and often defy scientific input.

Texas still ranks in the bottom 10 in deaths per capita. There is no catastrophic overrunning of hospitals in the state.

There were mistakes made and they have course corrected, but acting like it%u2019s a war zone there just because cases are up is absurd hyperbole. I%u2019m sure you%u2019ll say %u201Cjust wait, they are coming!%u201D  But at this point, it%u2019s unnecessary exaggeration.  There is a LONG ways to go before their per capita numbers get in line with other states, much less gross.

Quote from: Jockey on June 23, 2020, 11:17:46 AM

The results in Texas speak to its "leadership" from the governor's office.

Yes, why couldn%u2019t they be more like Illinois or Rhode Island. Typical cause it%u2019s always red and blue with Jockey

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 23, 2020, 11:32:03 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on June 23, 2020, 11:18:37 AM

Yes, why couldn't they be more like Illinois or Rhode Island. Typical cause it's always red and blue with Jockey

I never mentioned red or blue. Why couldn't Abbott do what Red governors in Ohio and Maryland did where they took control early rather than ignoring the virus?

Happy now?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on June 23, 2020, 11:39:26 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on June 23, 2020, 11:18:37 AM

Texas still ranks in the bottom 10 in deaths per capita. There is no catastrophic overrunning of hospitals in the state.

There were mistakes made and they have course corrected, but acting like it%u2019s a war zone there just because cases are up is absurd hyperbole. I%u2019m sure you%u2019ll say %u201Cjust wait, they are coming!%u201D  But at this point, it%u2019s unnecessary exaggeration.  There is a LONG ways to go before their per capita numbers get in line with other states, much less gross.

Texas is one of the states that has also deliberately undercounted cases and deaths by refusing to follow CDC guidelines on probable/suspected cases/deaths. But I didn't say anything about death rates. I'm equally concerned about increased spread and possible long-term damage to individuals that does not get taken into consideration in simple death numbers (e.g. permanent damage to the heart/lungs/kidneys/brain).

And how have they course corrected? They still do not allow local municipalities to set their own rules regarding reopening. It was only a week ago, that Abbott was saying they didn't have a problem and it was just increases in testing, despite that being a provable lie. They may be getting their act together now (who knows, no real evidence of that yet), but applauding their actions/decisions and saying they have taken a targeted approach is inaccurate. Up to now they have taken a blanket and authoritarian approach.

You also have Houston having to open Children's hospitals to adults, because of surges of patients. And they will only see increases in cases with nothing changing on the policy side.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 23, 2020, 12:09:12 PM

Outside the box thinking.

---

IU discovery could lead to virus-killing masks
By Shari Rudavsky Indianapolis Star

https://www.southbendtribune.com/coronavirus/iu-discovery-could-lead-to-virus-killing-masks/article_8a6c2e8e-b4a6-11ea-a31d-b7778f05275e.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on June 23, 2020, 12:13:07 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 23, 2020, 12:09:12 PM

Outside the box thinking.

---

IU discovery could lead to virus-killing masks
By Shari Rudavsky Indianapolis Star

https://www.southbendtribune.com/coronavirus/iu-discovery-could-lead-to-virus-killing-masks/article_8a6c2e8e-b4a6-11ea-a31d-b7778f05275e.html

So at least one school will have sports this year

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 23, 2020, 12:56:03 PM

EU opening their borders back up on July 1.

And may bar travel from the United States.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 23, 2020, 01:04:26 PM

Quote from: forgetful on June 23, 2020, 11:39:26 AM

Texas is one of the states that has also deliberately undercounted cases and deaths by refusing to follow CDC guidelines on probable/suspected cases/deaths. But I didn't say anything about death rates. I'm equally concerned about increased spread and possible long-term damage to individuals that does not get taken into consideration in simple death numbers (e.g. permanent damage to the heart/lungs/kidneys/brain).

And how have they course corrected? They still do not allow local municipalities to set their own rules regarding reopening. It was only a week ago, that Abbott was saying they didn't have a problem and it was just increases in testing, despite that being a provable lie. They may be getting their act together now (who knows, no real evidence of that yet), but applauding their actions/decisions and saying they have taken a targeted approach is inaccurate. Up to now they have taken a blanket and authoritarian approach.

You also have Houston having to open Children's hospitals to adults, because of surges of patients. And they will only see increases in cases with nothing changing on the policy side.

Excellent comment, all true.

One of the under-told tragedies from this pandemic are the number of "survivors" who are suffering severe health issues, especially to their lungs and kidneys. Many of the conditions will plague these poor folks for the rest of their lives. My wife and I know two of them; one is an obese man who nonetheless had a healthy heart at his most recent checkup in 2018 but now has serious heart issues. The other is a 40-year-old woman who works at the hospital with my wife; she had no previous health issues but ended up getting very sick, spent a couple weeks on a ventilator and now has serious lung problems that might end up being permanent.

We fixate on the dead, for obvious reasons, and we cheer those whose cases are mild and/or who recover completely, again for obvious reasons. But there are thousands and thousands of Americans who won't really "recover" from this.

Changing the subject slightly but sticking with your comment ...

I won't ever trust the numbers from Texas or Florida. They cooked the books, they went wide open early, they are now suffering the consequences, and they still won't give accurate data.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 23, 2020, 01:10:54 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 23, 2020, 12:56:03 PM

EU opening their borders back up on July 1.

And may bar travel from the United States.

Unfortunately, I wouldn’t blame them a bit. Heck, I doubt we will be able to even go to Canada anytime soon.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 23, 2020, 01:25:55 PM

Quote from: MU82 on June 23, 2020, 01:04:26 PM

Excellent comment, all true.

One of the under-told tragedies from this pandemic are the number of "survivors" who are suffering severe health issues, especially to their lungs and kidneys. Many of the conditions will plague these poor folks for the rest of their lives. My wife and I know two of them; one is an obese man who nonetheless had a healthy heart at his most recent checkup in 2018 but now has serious heart issues. The other is a 40-year-old woman who works at the hospital with my wife; she had no previous health issues but ended up getting very sick, spent a couple weeks on a ventilator and now has serious lung problems that might end up being permanent.

We fixate on the dead, for obvious reasons, and we cheer those whose cases are mild and/or who recover completely, again for obvious reasons. But there are thousands and thousands of Americans who won't really "recover" from this.

Changing the subject slightly but sticking with your comment ...

I won't ever trust the numbers from Texas or Florida. They cooked the books, they went wide open early, they are now suffering the consequences, and they still won't give accurate data.

1. Your point is well founded on long term health impacts, but I do wonder what is attributed to the nature of the virus and what is attributed to our lack of treatment protocols in the early days. A lot of the long term effects may be from the treatments received versus the virus itself. Extremely anecdotal but I have two colleagues that are roughly the same age, health, etc....one got Covid in early March in the Boston area and another got it last month in Wisconsin. Even though they were in roughly the same shape when admitted, the guy is Boston has had a much longer road to recovery than the Wisconsin one. We had a conversation about their treatment plans and it was very different. Early patients were literally experimented on, and some of that is going to have an impact.

To your last contention, I have zero evidence to say whether you are wrong or right (very likely right) but wouldn't that then make it realistic that other states might be cooking the books in the opposite direction?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 23, 2020, 01:34:22 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 23, 2020, 01:25:55 PM

To your last contention, I have zero evidence to say whether you are wrong or right (very likely right) but wouldn't that then make it realistic that other states might be cooking the books in the opposite direction?

I don't think this is happening to any strong degree (estimating high) based on the excess death analyses that occurred - still significant unexplained excess death pretty much everywhere. I am sure there are debatable instances/examples though - bound to happen.  So by in large all under-counting...the question is just by how much.  In India & other Emerging markets...a ton -- in texas probably less so.  In other states trying to follow the CDC guideline to a 'T' probably even less.

Also, I dont believe there is a strong incentive to over-count.  No money, more scrutiny from your people, makes the environment seem out of control.  No politician that wants to get re-elected is going to make their situation look materially more extreme. 

I think there is one person that certainly thinks otherwise--but that person also thinks everything is about that person.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 23, 2020, 01:47:01 PM

Quote from: MU82 on June 23, 2020, 01:04:26 PM

One of the under-told tragedies from this pandemic are the number of "survivors" who are suffering severe health issues, especially to their lungs and kidneys. Many of the conditions will plague these poor folks for the rest of their lives. My wife and I know two of them; one is an obese man who nonetheless had a healthy heart at his most recent checkup in 2018 but now has serious heart issues. The other is a 40-year-old woman who works at the hospital with my wife; she had no previous health issues but ended up getting very sick, spent a couple weeks on a ventilator and now has serious lung problems that might end up being permanent.

We fixate on the dead, for obvious reasons, and we cheer those whose cases are mild and/or who recover completely, again for obvious reasons. But there are thousands and thousands of Americans who won't really "recover" from this.

Yep. In addition to long-term lung, kidney and heart issues, there is a well-documented post-intensive care syndrome, where people can experience PTSD, anxiety and depression.

And many of the people who suffer strokes and survive will likely suffer a range of long-term neurological symptoms.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 23, 2020, 02:10:22 PM

Arizona reports record single-day increase in coronavirus cases ahead of Trump’s visit

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/23/arizona-reports-record-single-day-increase-in-coronavirus-cases-ahead-of-trumps-visit.html

The Arizona Department of Health reported nearly 3,600 additional Covid-19 cases on Tuesday, another record in additional daily cases, ahead of President Donald Trump’s scheduled appearances later in the day.

Arizona is averaging about 2,500 daily new cases as of Monday, which is about a 94% increase since one week ago, according to a CNBC analysis of Johns Hopkins University data.

The coronavirus infected 3,593 people and killed an additional 42 people in Arizona since Monday, bringing the states’ death toll to 1,384, according to the state’s health department.

While the rise in daily case numbers could reflect a lag in data reporting or increased testing in certain locations throughout the state, Arizona’s positivity rate has increased from 5% in early May to nearly 20% in June, according to the state’s health department. Its current positivity rate average stands at more than 10%.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on June 23, 2020, 02:15:06 PM

I feel like we are living the movie the "Groundhog Day".

1. Virus hits Asia.  Europe thinks they are fine,  they get hit
2. Virus hits Europe.  US thinks they are fine,  Washington and NY get hit
3. Virus hits Washington and NY,  Midwest thinks they are fine,  Midwest gets hit.
4. Virus hits Midwest,  South & West think they are fine.....

At what point do leaders take responsibility when this movie plays OVER AND OVER again?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 23, 2020, 02:21:32 PM

EU is saying FU to the US ...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/23/world/europe/coronavirus-EU-American-travel-ban.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20200623&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=31652&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

BRUSSELS — European Union countries rushing to revive their economies and reopen their borders after months of coronavirus restrictions are prepared to block Americans from entering because the United States has failed to control the scourge, according to draft lists of acceptable travelers seen by The New York Times.

That prospect, which would lump American visitors in with Russians and Brazilians as unwelcome, is a stinging blow to American prestige in the world and a repudiation of President Trump’s handling of the virus in the United States, which has more than 2.3 million cases and upward of 120,000 deaths, more than any other country.

European nations are currently haggling over two potential lists of acceptable visitors based on how countries are faring with the coronavirus pandemic. Both include China, as well as developing nations like Uganda, Cuba and Vietnam.

Travelers from the United States and the rest of the world have been excluded from visiting the European Union — with few exceptions mostly for repatriations or “essential travel” —- since mid-March. But a final decision on reopening the borders is expected early next week, before the bloc reopens on July 1.

A prohibition of Americans  by Brussels partly reflects the shifting pattern of the pandemic.  In March, when Europe was the epicenter, Mr. Trump infuriated European leaders when he banned citizens from most European Union countries from traveling to America. Mr. Trump justified the move as necessary to protect the United States, which at the time had roughly 1,100 coronavirus cases and 38 deaths.

In late May and early June, Mr. Trump said Europe was “making progress” and hinted that some restrictions would be lifted soon, but nothing has happened since then. Today, Europe has largely curbed the outbreak, even as the United States, the worst-afflicted, has seen more infection surges just in the past week.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on June 23, 2020, 02:56:10 PM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on June 23, 2020, 02:15:06 PM

I feel like we are living the movie the "Groundhog Day".

1. Virus hits Asia.  Europe thinks they are fine,  they get hit
2. Virus hits Europe.  US thinks they are fine,  Washington and NY get hit
3. Virus hits Washington and NY,  Midwest thinks they are fine,  Midwest gets hit.
4. Virus hits Midwest,  South & West think they are fine.....

At what point do leaders take responsibility when this movie plays OVER AND OVER again?

Human society is rarely proactive. Add that to large egos plus moronic leadership and that's how we get where we are

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 23, 2020, 05:40:49 PM

Interesting study.  The Hill article a summary but the link to the study is in the article. 

I wonder if the improvement in case fatality rate is a prevalence of undetected spread issue in addition to better treatment.

 https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/longevity/504145-more-than-87-million-coronavirus-cases-may-have-gone (https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/longevity/504145-more-than-87-million-coronavirus-cases-may-have-gone)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 23, 2020, 05:43:54 PM

Multiple Docs seem to like this thread on explaining recent trends in data. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/nataliexdean/status/1275431821422006274 (https://mobile.twitter.com/nataliexdean/status/1275431821422006274)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on June 23, 2020, 08:20:01 PM

The WH is planning to end federal support for local coronavirus testing sites across the nation at the end of the month - including seven in Texas, where confirmed cases of COVID are spiking.

Texas has seen a 146-percent increase in lab-confirmed COVID-19 hospitalizations since Memorial Day and Houston could soon be the country’s worst-hit city, health officials have warned.


https://www.houstonchronicle.com/politics/texas/article/As-feds-ready-to-pull-support-for-testing-sites-15360900.php

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 23, 2020, 08:22:18 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on June 23, 2020, 08:20:01 PM

The WH is planning to end federal support for local coronavirus testing sites across the nation at the end of the month - including seven in Texas, where confirmed cases of COVID are spiking.

Texas has seen a 146-percent increase in lab-confirmed COVID-19 hospitalizations since Memorial Day and Houston could soon be the country’s worst-hit city, health officials have warned.


https://www.houstonchronicle.com/politics/texas/article/As-feds-ready-to-pull-support-for-testing-sites-15360900.php

Ugh is all I can say.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 23, 2020, 08:32:09 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on June 23, 2020, 08:20:01 PM

The WH is planning to end federal support for local coronavirus testing sites across the nation at the end of the month - including seven in Texas, where confirmed cases of COVID are spiking.

Texas has seen a 146-percent increase in lab-confirmed COVID-19 hospitalizations since Memorial Day and Houston could soon be the country’s worst-hit city, health officials have warned.


https://www.houstonchronicle.com/politics/texas/article/As-feds-ready-to-pull-support-for-testing-sites-15360900.php

What else can you expect from the WPE.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 23, 2020, 08:47:08 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on June 23, 2020, 08:20:01 PM

The WH is planning to end federal support for local coronavirus testing sites across the nation at the end of the month - including seven in Texas, where confirmed cases of COVID are spiking.

Texas has seen a 146-percent increase in lab-confirmed COVID-19 hospitalizations since Memorial Day and Houston could soon be the country’s worst-hit city, health officials have warned.


https://www.houstonchronicle.com/politics/texas/article/As-feds-ready-to-pull-support-for-testing-sites-15360900.php

That is just mind-boggling.

I don’t get his endgame. People are still going to get sick, hospitalized and die. This will make it worse because there will be more undetected and uncontrolled spread. How does that benefit him or the American people?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on June 23, 2020, 08:56:37 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 23, 2020, 08:47:08 PM

That is just mind-boggling.

I don’t get his endgame. People are still going to get sick, hospitalized and die. This will make it worse because there will be more undetected and uncontrolled spread. How does that benefit him or the American people?

Because places like Texas do not count deaths or hospitalizations unless there is a positive PCR test. They don't even count cases diagnosed with other diagnostic tests. Unless there is a verified PCR test, states like Texas and Florida will not count it as a case, a hospitalization, or a death.

So they will just get recorded as ILI's or pneumonia. Makes it less likely that additional restrictions/shutdowns are needed, and makes it look like things "got better".

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 23, 2020, 09:12:14 PM

Quote from: forgetful on June 23, 2020, 08:56:37 PM

Because places like Texas do not count deaths or hospitalizations unless there is a positive PCR test. They don't even count cases diagnosed with other diagnostic tests. Unless there is a verified PCR test, states like Texas and Florida will not count it as a case, a hospitalization, or a death.

So they will just get recorded as ILI's or pneumonia. Makes it less likely that additional restrictions/shutdowns are needed, and makes it look like things "got better".

Yeah - forgot about that. Do you have any idea how many states count that way?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 23, 2020, 09:49:03 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 23, 2020, 08:47:08 PM

That is just mind-boggling.

I don’t get his endgame. People are still going to get sick, hospitalized and die. This will make it worse because there will be more undetected and uncontrolled spread. How does that benefit him or the American people?

This is probably the easiest thing to understand about him, Goo.

His end game is always Donald Trump.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on June 23, 2020, 10:18:44 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 23, 2020, 09:12:14 PM

Yeah - forgot about that. Do you have any idea how many states count that way?

Surprisingly, quite a few, but to varying degrees. Florida and Texas seem to have the most strict definitions of a case, but apparently 28 states are not completely following CDC case reporting guidelines.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/09/health/us-coronavirus-tuesday/index.html

Also, as a funny aside, almost accidentally invited the Scoop community to the meeting I was just scheduling tomorrow. Thought I had copied the above link, and pasted it in and almost hit post before realizing it was a zoom link. It was a CoVID meeting, so at least it was on topic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on June 23, 2020, 10:18:56 PM

Quote from: Jockey on June 23, 2020, 09:49:03 PM

This is probably the easiest thing to understand about him, Goo.

His end game is always Donald Trump.

Yeah, I mean once again he has said the quiet parts out loud. He has said numerous times that more testing makes him look bad. He even contradicted the lame attempt by his spokespeople to pretend that was just joking at the failed rally, and reiterated today his desire for less testing.

His endgame is to do less testing because he believes that will lead to fewer deaths being recorded as due to COVID which will makes him look better.

Again, he has said this. Out loud. Anyone trying to ascribe some other rational motive is just gaslighting, attempting to deny reality. HE HAS ADMITTED IT, proudly and publicly.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on June 23, 2020, 10:35:32 PM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on June 23, 2020, 02:15:06 PM

I feel like we are living the movie the "Groundhog Day".

1. Virus hits Asia.  Europe thinks they are fine,  they get hit
2. Virus hits Europe.  US thinks they are fine,  Washington and NY get hit
3. Virus hits Washington and NY,  Midwest thinks they are fine,  Midwest gets hit.
4. Virus hits Midwest,  South & West think they are fine.....

At what point do leaders take responsibility when this movie plays OVER AND OVER again?

Not sure what you're defining as the Midwest, but Illinois and Michigan were pretty much right there with NY and Washington as states hit hard early, and governors in those states, as well as Ohio, were among the first to enact serious restrictions. If you're talking Iowa, Nebraska, etc., sure. But the large Midwest states acted quickly.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on June 23, 2020, 10:37:07 PM

Meanwhile in Texas ...

@tripgabriel: .@GovAbbott tells Texans to stay home unless absolutely necessary as the state sets another record for new cases.
Texas was one of first states to *end* stay-home orders on April 30.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/23/world/coronavirus-updates.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on June 23, 2020, 10:41:54 PM

Have the MAGA celebrations about our overreaction to the hoax ended yet? Can we start taking this seriously? Because if we don’t we won’t even be out of our first wave in the USA before the second wave is hitting us.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on June 23, 2020, 11:11:35 PM

https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-reopening-united-states-new-zealand-china-20200619.html

The good news is other countries used the scientific studies from US scientists to successfully slow the spread of covid. The bad news is the US did not. So we can once again become a world leader once we put a competent leader in the White House.

But why listen to American scientists? After all, on behalf of the American people, I would like to thank President Xi for the incredible handling of covid 19.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 23, 2020, 11:16:50 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on June 23, 2020, 10:37:07 PM

Meanwhile in Texas ...

@tripgabriel: .@GovAbbott tells Texans to stay home unless absolutely necessary as the state sets another record for new cases.
Texas was one of first states to *end* stay-home orders on April 30.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/23/world/coronavirus-updates.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

Thank God we have Tony Evers instead of Abbott here in Wisconsin.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on June 24, 2020, 06:08:40 AM

https://www.yahoo.com/news/pope-francis-compared-priests-defied-171308628.html

I appreciate this pope so much. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 24, 2020, 07:34:57 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 23, 2020, 09:11:32 AM

Novak Djokovic has tested positive for coronavirus

https://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/id/29351887/novak-djokovic-tested-positive-coronavirus

Djokovic has been criticized for organizing the tournament and bringing in players from other countries amid the coronavirus pandemic. There were no social distancing measures observed at the matches in either country.

"Life goes on" was his quote last month. Defiant, feeling of invincibility, impatient, young, elite athlete, couldn't possibly happen to him. And if it does, he'll be fine. But of course, it isn't about just him, but everyone exposed by everyone there. Bar and club hopping while there. Nole was also outspoken against the U.S. Open protocols, limited guests etc....(Djokovic routinely rents a large house for his large group annually when playing in Queens)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on June 24, 2020, 07:39:32 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on June 24, 2020, 07:34:57 AM

"Life goes on" was his quote last month. Defiant, feeling of invincibility, impatient, young, elite athlete, couldn't possibly happen to him. And if it does, he'll be fine. But of course, it isn't about just him, but everyone exposed by everyone there. Bar and club hopping while there. Nole was also outspoken against the U.S. Open protocols, limited guests etc....(Djokovic routinely rents a large house for his large group annually when playing in Queens)

He’s also an anti-vaxxer. So this doesn’t come as too much of a surprise.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 24, 2020, 07:41:23 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on June 24, 2020, 07:34:57 AM

"Life goes on" was his quote last month. Defiant, feeling of invincibility, impatient, young, elite athlete, couldn't possibly happen to him. And if it does, he'll be fine. But of course, it isn't about just him, but everyone exposed by everyone there. Bar and club hopping while there. Nole was also outspoken against the U.S. Open protocols, limited guests etc....(Djokovic routinely rents a large house for his large group annually when playing in Queens)

Love watching him play tennis, but he comes across as a selfish jerk who doesn't care that the young people probably will be fine but that they'll carry COVID-19 to their parents, grandparents, co-workers and others susceptible to serious consequences. Very disappointed in him and others who think like him.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 24, 2020, 08:47:52 AM

Quote from: forgetful on June 23, 2020, 10:18:44 PM

Surprisingly, quite a few, but to varying degrees. Florida and Texas seem to have the most strict definitions of a case, but apparently 28 states are not completely following CDC case reporting guidelines.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/09/health/us-coronavirus-tuesday/index.html

Also, as a funny aside, almost accidentally invited the Scoop community to the meeting I was just scheduling tomorrow. Thought I had copied the above link, and pasted it in and almost hit post before realizing it was a zoom link. It was a CoVID meeting, so at least it was on topic.

Somehow I had forgotten about that article...but I know I read it and probably even commented on it here.

Anyhow, I wonder if the public knowledge that so many states aren't following the guidelines has led (or is leading) some to change their reporting practices. At the very least, I would think states with governors who take the science seriously would want to address the issue. If not, maybe increased availability of commercial or locally administered tests will partially negate the efforts of POTUS to reduce numbers by pulling back federal testing efforts.

Or maybe I'm just grasping for the futile hope that somehow we eventually follow science to the end of this pandemic....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 24, 2020, 08:51:53 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on June 24, 2020, 07:34:57 AM

"Life goes on" was his quote last month. Defiant, feeling of invincibility, impatient, young, elite athlete, couldn't possibly happen to him. And if it does, he'll be fine. But of course, it isn't about just him, but everyone exposed by everyone there. Bar and club hopping while there. Nole was also outspoken against the U.S. Open protocols, limited guests etc....(Djokovic routinely rents a large house for his large group annually when playing in Queens)

During the US Open I know he loves to visit the Restaurant Nippon in Manhattan. 
He has multiple signed photos hanging up in this longtime NYC Japanese restaurant.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 24, 2020, 09:09:10 AM

The thing with Djokovic is he has been a top 3 World Player almost every year for almost 15 years. He's 33. He knows better. He was selfish and defiant, perhaps entitled.

Even though he will never have the maniacal global popularity of Federer or Nadal, he is massively popular globally.  He has an audience that will listen to him and see and hear what he does.

Djokovic has played and lived by the notion of overcoming obstacles, without limits. He had digestive problems as a younger player and would get visibly physically ill during some day time hot humid matches. He then went Gluten Free. He has very specific training, diet methods etc....

But when one is used to taking action to overcome the obstacles, it can be different and challenging to overcome the obstacles by being more cautious. It goes against the grain a bit which can make it a worthy challenge for some. It would have been better if he recognized COVID-19 as such much sooner.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 24, 2020, 09:16:02 AM

The New York City Marathon, the world’s largest, has been canceled this year.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/24/world/coronavirus-updates.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage#link-393ca703

Not a surprise, but the cancellation of this iconic event is another ominous sign for other fall and winter sporting events. I wonder how long it takes before the Tour de France is cancelled....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on June 24, 2020, 11:05:43 AM

How badly must you have f'd up as a state when NY and Cuomo are going to make any visitor from your state quarantine for two weeks when coming to New York?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 24, 2020, 11:46:30 AM

Quote from: tower912 on June 24, 2020, 11:05:43 AM

How badly must you have f'd up as a state when NY and Cuomo are going to make any visitor from your state quarantine for two weeks when coming to New York?

It's a tri-state plan with New Jersey and Connecticut in the mix.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 24, 2020, 12:28:46 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 24, 2020, 11:46:30 AM

It's a tri-state plan with New Jersey and Connecticut in the mix.

Gov Lamont just posted the criteria in case anyone wondered why states were included/excluded. 

Travel Advisory: Effective 11:59 p.m. on Wednesday, June 24, 2020, anyone traveling into Connecticut, New York, or New Jersey from a state that has a new daily positive test rate higher than 10 per 100,000 residents or a state with a 10% or higher positivity rate over a 7-day rolling average are directed to self-quarantine for a 14-day period from the time of last contact within the identified state.

As of today, the list of states includes: Alabama, Arkansas, Arizona, Florida, North Carolina, South Carolina, Texas, Utah & Washington.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 24, 2020, 01:29:24 PM

Yep. Not that I have a trip planned up that way any time soon, but NC is on the list.

Hospitalizations and percentage of positive steps have been going up steadily here ever since we entered Phase 2 (restaurants open at limited capacity, barbers open, small gatherings allowed with proper distancing, etc) on May 22.

He is supposed to decide if we will enter Phase 3 this week. I'm not optimistic. Folks here have gotten very lackadaisical about mask-wearing and social distancing. For awhile, when I went to the store or to pick up a to-go order, almost everybody was wearing a mask. Now, the no-mask folks outnumber the mask-wearers by a wide margin. And the one time we went out to eat since dine-in was allowed, not a single employee at the restaurant was wearing a mask; won't go there again.

There is talk of the governor issuing a statewide mask mandate, maybe along with letting some more places open - a Phase 2.5. We'll see.

But given the info we have, I don't blame NY-NJ-CT from keeping us out.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 24, 2020, 02:15:14 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 24, 2020, 12:28:46 PM

Gov Lamont just posted the criteria in case anyone wondered why states were included/excluded. 

Travel Advisory: Effective 11:59 p.m. on Wednesday, June 24, 2020, anyone traveling into Connecticut, New York, or New Jersey from a state that has a new daily positive test rate higher than 10 per 100,000 residents or a state with a 10% or higher positivity rate over a 7-day rolling average are directed to self-quarantine for a 14-day period from the time of last contact within the identified state.

As of today, the list of states includes: Alabama, Arkansas, Arizona, Florida, North Carolina, South Carolina, Texas, Utah & Washington.

This begs the question of how they will identify people from said states, and more importantly how they will monitor or enforce the quarantine. From a practical perspective, seems like it almost has to be 'voluntary.'

But I agree with 82 - I certainly don't blame them for trying.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 24, 2020, 02:19:49 PM

Quote from: MU82 on June 24, 2020, 01:29:24 PM

Yep. Not that I have a trip planned up that way any time soon, but NC is on the list.

Hospitalizations and percentage of positive steps have been going up steadily here ever since we entered Phase 2 (restaurants open at limited capacity, barbers open, small gatherings allowed with proper distancing, etc) on May 22.

He is supposed to decide if we will enter Phase 3 this week. I'm not optimistic. Folks here have gotten very lackadaisical about mask-wearing and social distancing. For awhile, when I went to the store or to pick up a to-go order, almost everybody was wearing a mask. Now, the no-mask folks outnumber the mask-wearers by a wide margin. And the one time we went out to eat since dine-in was allowed, not a single employee at the restaurant was wearing a mask; won't go there again.

There is talk of the governor issuing a statewide mask mandate, maybe along with letting some more places open - a Phase 2.5. We'll see.

But given the info we have, I don't blame NY-NJ-CT from keeping us out.

Just saw a newsflash that Cooper delayed further reopening 3 weeks, and mandated wearing masks. Haven't seen details yet.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 24, 2020, 02:27:27 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 24, 2020, 02:15:14 PM

This begs the question of how they will identify people from said states, and more importantly how they will monitor or enforce the quarantine. From a practical perspective, seems like it almost has to be 'voluntary.'

But I agree with 82 - I certainly don't blame them for trying.

It's pretty toothless/voluntary.  If I had to guess the primary objective is to send a message to the New Yorkers that fled to FL or carolina beach houses when things heated up earlier in the year.  They want that set to stay home for a while when they come back to flea outbreaks in those areas. 

Now there are penalties, so if someone is actively flaunting they can fine/order them to quarantine through the judiciary.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 24, 2020, 02:38:14 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 24, 2020, 02:27:27 PM

It's pretty toothless/voluntary.  If I had to guess the primary objective is to send a message to the New Yorkers that fled to FL or carolina beach houses when things heated up earlier in the year.  They want that set to stay home for a while when they come back to flea outbreaks in those areas. 

Now there are penalties, so if someone is actively flaunting they can fine/order them to quarantine through the judiciary.

And plenty of New Yorkers have fled to Connecticut.  USPS said 10,000 people switched their address to Connecticut from New York between March and now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on June 24, 2020, 03:14:43 PM

Florida, man.

@aravosis: Floridians angrily claiming masks are the work of the devil because “they want to throw God’s wonderful breathing system out the door.” https://twitter.com/aravosis/status/1275854598146871296/video/1

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 24, 2020, 03:19:46 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on June 24, 2020, 03:14:43 PM

Florida, man.

@aravosis: Floridians angrily claiming masks are the work of the devil because “they want to throw God’s wonderful breathing system out the door.” https://twitter.com/aravosis/status/1275854598146871296/video/1

Sounds like a good episode for The Jerry Springer Show.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on June 24, 2020, 03:20:05 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on June 24, 2020, 03:14:43 PM

Florida, man.

@aravosis: Floridians angrily claiming masks are the work of the devil because “they want to throw God’s wonderful breathing system out the door.” https://twitter.com/aravosis/status/1275854598146871296/video/1

My home! Not at all surprised.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 24, 2020, 03:45:26 PM

The last couple of weeks have been depressing.  I can't really get mad about this, or even have the will to debate this stuff anymore, since we have collectively decided to just give up.  A country that prides itself on its worth ethic and never surrendor attitude has decided this is all too hard and taking all too long. 

All we needed was patience and perserverence.  And we have neither.

For those who care about sports, read this.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/06/24/america-cant-act-like-team-it-might-cost-us-return-sports/

"Of course, the world really is a competitive league — but an economic one. In that race, in controlling the novel coronavirus pandemic, we are far behind Asia, where, just to illustrate, Japan and South Korea are playing baseball, and the European Union, where elite professional soccer is back in England, Germany, Italy and Spain.

The gap is incredibly embarrassing. If you want to know why, among many more serious American problems, we may have no more MLB, NFL, NBA or NHL this year, consider Tuesday’s stats. The seven largest countries in the E.U., with a combined population around the same as our 330 million, had about 6 percent as many new coronavirus cases as the U.S.: 2,074 to 33,730. Texas and California had more than 5,000 new cases each.

In April, the E.U. was just as big a health disaster as America. But the E.U. still operates like a team — one that believes in science and has the discipline to fight together against a pandemic. Now, the results are in."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on June 24, 2020, 03:54:45 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 24, 2020, 03:45:26 PM

The last couple of weeks have been depressing.  I can't really get mad about this, or even have the will to debate this stuff anymore, since we have collectively decided to just give up.  A country that prides itself on its worth ethic and never surrendor attitude has decided this is all too hard and taking all too long. 

All we needed was patience and perserverence.  And we have neither.

For those who care about sports, read this.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/06/24/america-cant-act-like-team-it-might-cost-us-return-sports/

"Of course, the world really is a competitive league — but an economic one. In that race, in controlling the novel coronavirus pandemic, we are far behind Asia, where, just to illustrate, Japan and South Korea are playing baseball, and the European Union, where elite professional soccer is back in England, Germany, Italy and Spain.

The gap is incredibly embarrassing. If you want to know why, among many more serious American problems, we may have no more MLB, NFL, NBA or NHL this year, consider Tuesday’s stats. The seven largest countries in the E.U., with a combined population around the same as our 330 million, had about 6 percent as many new coronavirus cases as the U.S.: 2,074 to 33,730. Texas and California had more than 5,000 new cases each.

In April, the E.U. was just as big a health disaster as America. But the E.U. still operates like a team — one that believes in science and has the discipline to fight together against a pandemic. Now, the results are in."

On the bright side, those who wanted us to act like Sweden should be ecstatic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 24, 2020, 04:04:23 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 24, 2020, 03:45:26 PM

The last couple of weeks have been depressing.  I can't really get mad about this, or even have the will to debate this stuff anymore, since we have collectively decided to just give up.  A country that prides itself on its worth ethic and never surrendor attitude has decided this is all too hard and taking all too long. 

All we needed was patience and perserverence.  And we have neither.

Agreed.

A few days ago, an infectious disease specialist from the University of Auckland was quoted in the Post as saying "it really does feel like the U.S. has given up." And she's right. Many individuals, doctors, researchers, institutions, companies and states are fighting like he!!...but as a collective entity, we raised the white flag quite a while ago.

Depressing. I'm gonna take a nap, because that's the only way I can even get through the day anymore....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 24, 2020, 04:16:52 PM

I was here a few weeks ago.  I’ve accepted it now. 

The economy is going to suffer from these choices.  Not sure if we go back to lockdowns but this will have two measurable impacts in my opinion.  First consumption will be dampened for a longer period of time as some isolate and become more cautious.  Second manufacturing has the potential to be impacted in affected areas. I’m hopeful these states can get things back on track.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 24, 2020, 04:21:55 PM

NC staying in Phase 2 through at least July 15, and a statewide mask mandate begins Friday.

People are expecting some kind of legal challenge to the mandate. So yeah, we'll waste taxpayer dollars fighting a lawsuit because effen d-bags are too "freedom-fightery" and too selfish to wear masks during a deadly global pandemic.

This is why we are going the wrong way in 2 of 3 major metrics -- hospitalizations and percentage of positive cases. (Deaths, thankfully, aren't as prevalent the last few weeks.)

Come on, North Cackalacky! Do you want to fully re-open, or not?!?!?!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on June 24, 2020, 04:33:48 PM

Wow .. Florida.  That's a lot of insanity.

https://twitter.com/aravosis/status/1275854598146871296

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on June 24, 2020, 04:36:13 PM

Many posters were saying the half ass shut down/approach the US took would cause far more harm than good over the long term.  The economy was going to take a big hit immediately no matter what approach we took.  So take it seriously and have a coordinated plan starting at the top and it'll suck for a while but it'll get better much, much sooner.  Instead we said we're leaving this up to the states with no real guidance so good luck!  And the states then said hey we're going to shut down, but in reality pretty much everything can be considered "essential" so just be safe!  And the approach has led to exactly what we thought it would, the US falling way, way behind the rest of the world.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on June 24, 2020, 04:38:22 PM

At the federal level, no better than Brazil.   No better than Sweden.    Shame.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on June 24, 2020, 04:57:18 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on June 24, 2020, 04:33:48 PM

Wow .. Florida.  That's a lot of insanity.

https://twitter.com/aravosis/status/1275854598146871296

This literally could've been a town meeting in parks and rec it's that ridiculous

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on June 24, 2020, 05:20:13 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on June 24, 2020, 04:33:48 PM

Wow .. Florida.  That's a lot of insanity.

https://twitter.com/aravosis/status/1275854598146871296

But wait, there's more....


This angry Florida woman argued today against the mask mandate, while bringing up the devil, 5G, Bill Gates, Hillary Clinton, "the pedophiles" and the deep state. Enjoy... pic.twitter.com/yqKUZNQYLQ

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 24, 2020, 05:38:57 PM

Today is the single day high for reported COVID-19 cases in the U.S.

https://twitter.com/ASlavitt/status/1275907797096505344?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on June 24, 2020, 05:52:59 PM

Hospitalizations and deaths Nationally seem pretty stable. Obviously not great that they haven’t decreased measurably, but at least they are not spiking.  Which is a more compelling metric to me than cases, given the increasing levels of testing.

This isn’t to say all is well and NBD, just keeping things in some sort of positive perspective

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 24, 2020, 06:37:47 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on June 24, 2020, 05:52:59 PM

Hospitalizations and deaths Nationally seem pretty stable. Obviously not great that they haven’t decreased measurably, but at least they are not spiking.  Which is a more compelling metric to me than cases, given the increasing levels of testing.

This isn’t to say all is well and NBD, just keeping things in some sort of positive perspective

Agree, Wags. There are significant swaths of the country where COVID-19 either has little or no presence.

Had we had a more coordinated national effort to start with, maybe the vast majority of the country would be closer to that. Or maybe not. Unfortunately, we'll never know.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 24, 2020, 07:17:17 PM

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1275944810944307200?s=19

Tulsa County.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on June 24, 2020, 07:54:07 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on June 24, 2020, 05:52:59 PM

Hospitalizations and deaths Nationally seem pretty stable. Obviously not great that they haven’t decreased measurably, but at least they are not spiking.  Which is a more compelling metric to me than cases, given the increasing levels of testing.

This isn’t to say all is well and NBD, just keeping things in some sort of positive perspective

Depends where you are talking about. Some places have hospitalizations way up. And a lot of young people filling those beds.

https://www.khou.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/texas-hospital-icus-crowded-with-covid-19-patients-as-coronavirus-continues-to-spread/285-aad0788d-256e-4454-8e3f-87f9c7956680

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8457009/Texas-verge-Covid-crisis-Houstons-largest-hospitals-ICU-97-full.html

https://www.newsweek.com/washington-county-completely-runs-out-hospital-beds-coronavirus-spike-1513081

https://www.foxcarolina.com/news/upstate-hospitals-see-increase-in-bed-capacity-due-to-covid-19/article_5dcb0498-b660-11ea-b901-1f5d23d138f9.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 24, 2020, 08:06:07 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on June 24, 2020, 05:52:59 PM

Hospitalizations and deaths Nationally seem pretty stable. Obviously not great that they haven’t decreased measurably, but at least they are not spiking.  Which is a more compelling metric to me than cases, given the increasing levels of testing.

Numerous states are seeing increases in hospitalizations. Some models are forecasting much bigger increases.

Metrics are not good.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 24, 2020, 08:14:32 PM

36358 new cases today, ... so trump cuts funding for testing.

Worse than no leadership at all.

At a luncheon with GOP senators today, Pence told them to accentuate the positive.

Houston is out of ICU beds, yet some here say Texas gov is doing a good job.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 24, 2020, 08:18:55 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on June 24, 2020, 05:52:59 PM

Hospitalizations and deaths Nationally seem pretty stable. Obviously not great that they haven’t decreased measurably, but at least they are not spiking.  Which is a more compelling metric to me than cases, given the increasing levels of testing.

This isn’t to say all is well and NBD, just keeping things in some sort of positive perspective

This testing thing is a bit of a joke.  They are testing like crazy in Europe too.  You know what they are finding?  Less spread.

You listen to some people and you would think we are pulling every able bodied young person over on the street and shoving a swab up their nose. 

I saw a quote from Pence & john Cornyn in that realm.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 24, 2020, 08:22:37 PM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2020/06/24/pence-coronavirus-spike-senate/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2020/06/24/pence-coronavirus-spike-senate/)

Here is the article.  Cornyn is the speaker and pence is ‘he’

 “But he wanted to assure us that they’re continuing to work with the states like mine and others that are seeing some spikes, but that the mix of people is a little different. It’s younger people who are getting the virus, people who are getting tested but may be not actually experiencing any symptoms. So it’s hard to pick one number and say that represents a complete picture.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on June 24, 2020, 09:36:50 PM

One long, ever-rolling wave...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 24, 2020, 09:43:38 PM

Quote from: Jockey on June 24, 2020, 08:06:07 PM

Numerous states are seeing increases in hospitalizations. Some models are forecasting much bigger increases.

Metrics are not good.

Correct. The overall number of hospitalizations and deaths seem relatively stable in part because the northeast and upper midwest are seeing decreases. But when you look across the south and west part of the country, the numbers look quite alarming. Arizona, Texas and Florida in particular have areas that appear on the verge of a NYC type situation.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on June 24, 2020, 09:47:01 PM

Hospitals concerned about ICU bed capacity as Hillsborough County coronavirus cases increase
https://www.wfla.com/8-on-your-side/investigations/hospitals-concerned-about-icu-bed-capacity-as-hillsborough-county-coronavirus-cases-increase/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on June 24, 2020, 09:47:28 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 24, 2020, 08:22:37 PM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2020/06/24/pence-coronavirus-spike-senate/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2020/06/24/pence-coronavirus-spike-senate/)

Here is the article.  Cornyn is the speaker and pence is ‘he’

 “But he wanted to assure us that they’re continuing to work with the states like mine and others that are seeing some spikes, but that the mix of people is a little different. It’s younger people who are getting the virus, people who are getting tested but may be not actually experiencing any symptoms. So it’s hard to pick one number and say that represents a complete picture.”

It bothers me when people say "younger people getting the virus" like there is nothing for them to worry about. Lots of potentially life-long complications in that group. And in places like Houston, the ICU is filling up with people under 65.

Then there are people like this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/19/obituaries/lynika-strozier-dead-coronavirus.html

Where unless you count a learning disability as a pre-existing condition, was an otherwise healthy 35 year old.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on June 24, 2020, 10:36:52 PM

Wear a mask.

@jduchneskie: Over the last 2 weeks, cases have risen by 84% in states that don't require wearing masks in public. In states where mask wearing is mandatory, cases have fallen by 25%.

https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/covid-19-coronavirus-face-masks-infection-rates-20200624.html https://twitter.com/jduchneskie/status/1275789513210703878/photo/1

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 24, 2020, 11:14:24 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on June 24, 2020, 10:36:52 PM

Wear a mask.

@jduchneskie: Over the last 2 weeks, cases have risen by 84% in states that don't require wearing masks in public. In states where mask wearing is mandatory, cases have fallen by 25%.

https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/covid-19-coronavirus-face-masks-infection-rates-20200624.html https://twitter.com/jduchneskie/status/1275789513210703878/photo/1

But ... but ... but ... personal freedom!

Now excuse me while I go into a restaurant with no shoes and no shirt, and then sneeze on everybody in there.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 25, 2020, 05:52:02 AM

This math should startle people. Really means the testing narrative by the federal govt is wrong.  Some states true to some degree but not the whole story by any degree.

 https://mobile.twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1275957171457527808 (https://mobile.twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1275957171457527808)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 25, 2020, 06:50:37 AM

People didn't like the new normal where we wear an icky mask when in public so instead we trade masks for deaths.  Good call, America.

https://twitter.com/SykesCharlie/status/1275937026097983491

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbUJ9i9WkAIV4-W?format=jpg&name=small)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 25, 2020, 08:31:20 AM

An analysis of potential hot spots beyond Az, FL & TX.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ashishkjha/status/1275988101047955456 (https://mobile.twitter.com/ashishkjha/status/1275988101047955456)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on June 25, 2020, 08:41:36 AM

Add West Virginia to the list of states that don't like math, science, or reporting accurate numbers. Hmmm, what does it have in common with the others?

West Virginia governor forces out top health official amid outbreaks
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/west-virginia-governor-forces-out-top-health-official-amid-outbreaks/ar-BB15TXT5?ocid=spartan-dhp-feeds

West Virginia Gov. Jim Justice forced out the commissioner of his public health bureau on Wednesday, hours after he publicly questioned the accuracy of the state's coronavirus data and detailed growing outbreaks in about a dozen counties.

Slemp, who was a regular feature of the governor's daily virus news conferences, has decades of public health experience. She was previously the acting state health officer and was the founding director of the state's public health emergency preparedness and response programs, according to a biography on the state health department website. Slemp is also on the board of scientific counselors at the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Justice, a billionaire coal businessman without previous political experience, had showered Slemp with praise as he hosted press conferences during the outbreak, often stressing that his aggressive plan to lift virus restrictions was guided by his health experts. Slemp did not appear at Wednesday's news briefing.

In a resignation letter, provided by the state health department, Slemp urged officials to listen to science.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 25, 2020, 08:52:07 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 25, 2020, 08:31:20 AM

An analysis of potential hot spots beyond Az, FL & TX.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ashishkjha/status/1275988101047955456 (https://mobile.twitter.com/ashishkjha/status/1275988101047955456)

Those are pretty sobering numbers...especially since we know they aren't as bad as FL, TX and AZ.

Cases up over 100% in 4 of the 5 states, and for those who say they don't pay much attention to the number of new cases but focus on hospitalizations, the two-week increases in hospitalizations:

GA: +38%
MS: +8%
OK: +41%
NV: +22%
SC: +62%

Thanks to politicians who don't follow the science and citizens who listen to them, this is going to get a LOT worse before it gets better....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on June 25, 2020, 08:52:30 AM

This is an awesome graphical display ..

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-spread.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on June 25, 2020, 09:06:29 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 25, 2020, 08:52:07 AM

Those are pretty sobering numbers...especially since we know they aren't as bad as FL, TX and AZ.

Cases up over 100% in 4 of the 5 states, and for those who say they don't pay much attention to the number of new cases but focus on hospitalizations, the two-week increases in hospitalizations:

GA: +38%
MS: +8%
OK: +41%
NV: +22%
SC: +62%

Thanks to politicians who don't follow the science and citizens who listen to them, this is going to get a LOT worse before it gets better....

Good thread below digging into hospital census “issue” down in Texas.  On the surface it seems real bad but when you dig in 80-90% of folks hospitalized right now are non-Covid.

Even here in Wisconsin where we are doing a great job it seems in protecting the most vulnerable hospitals are back to be jam packed with non-Covid patients.  Hospitals are always operating at near 100% census so seems a bit intellectually dishonest not to give proper context to the type of patients being seen in these hot spots.

https://mobile.twitter.com/aginnt/status/1275868742287634435

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 25, 2020, 09:11:35 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on June 25, 2020, 09:06:29 AM

Good thread below digging into hospital census “issue” down in Texas.  On the surface it seems real bad but when you dig in 80-90% of folks hospitalized right now are non-Covid.

Even here in Wisconsin where we are doing a great job it seems in protecting the most vulnerable hospitals are back to be jam packed with non-Covid patients.  Hospitals are always operating at near 100% census so seems a bit intellectually dishonest not to give proper context to the type of patients being seen in these hot spots.

https://mobile.twitter.com/aginnt/status/1275868742287634435

Pace - I think this buries some critical points.  Everyone knows the hospital isnt sitting around empty. 

However, the non-COVID people aren't there on vacation, they are there for treatment.

COVID cases have shown the ability to grow very quickly - further exacerbating capacity issues.

Now some of the more 'elective' items can free capacity, but not focusing on this now creates calamity in a few weeks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on June 25, 2020, 09:31:40 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 25, 2020, 06:50:37 AM

People didn't like the new normal where we wear an icky mask when in public so instead we trade masks for deaths.  Good call, America.

https://twitter.com/SykesCharlie/status/1275937026097983491

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbUJ9i9WkAIV4-W?format=jpg&name=small)

American Exceptionalism.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 25, 2020, 09:34:00 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on June 25, 2020, 09:06:29 AM

Good thread below digging into hospital census “issue” down in Texas.  On the surface it seems real bad but when you dig in 80-90% of folks hospitalized right now are non-Covid.

Even here in Wisconsin where we are doing a great job it seems in protecting the most vulnerable hospitals are back to be jam packed with non-Covid patients.  Hospitals are always operating at near 100% census so seems a bit intellectually dishonest not to give proper context to the type of patients being seen in these hot spots.

https://mobile.twitter.com/aginnt/status/1275868742287634435

I will give you that the number of unfilled beds in Texas stat is a bit misleading since the beds are not all occupied with covid patients... but those beds are still occupied.  You can't just throw people out of them today so that people with covid can have them tomorrow.   Surely, you see the problem with that, aina?

And with cases rising, its inevitable that hospital beds will need to be filled with covid patients shortly.  Guess the folks who have elective procedures are on the back burner again because people can't be responsible.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 25, 2020, 09:40:56 AM

"Anybody who wants a test can get a test."

 - POTUS

Arizona ‘Overwhelmed’ With Demand for Tests as U.S. System Shows Strain

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/25/upshot/virus-testing-shortfall-arizona.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 25, 2020, 09:45:48 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on June 25, 2020, 09:06:29 AM

Good thread below digging into hospital census “issue” down in Texas.  On the surface it seems real bad but when you dig in 80-90% of folks hospitalized right now are non-Covid.

Even here in Wisconsin where we are doing a great job it seems in protecting the most vulnerable hospitals are back to be jam packed with non-Covid patients.  Hospitals are always operating at near 100% census so seems a bit intellectually dishonest not to give proper context to the type of patients being seen in these hot spots.

https://mobile.twitter.com/aginnt/status/1275868742287634435

Shiny object.

Of course people are still sick, and of course there will be demand for hospital beds with or without COVID. But like it or not, COVID numbers are growing so demand for hospital beds (and ICU beds) to treat COVID patients is going to rise substantially in the coming days and weeks. And if there aren't beds to accommodate them, we are in for a world of hurt.

People wanted hospitalization data, so I gave them hospitalization data...and it doesn't look good.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 25, 2020, 01:14:40 PM

18 North Texas relatives test positive for COVID-19 after surprise birthday party. Three are hospitalized so far including two elderly and a third with breast cancer:

https://www.wfaa.com/amp/article/news/north-texas-family-shaken-after-18-relatives-test-positive-for-covid-19-following-surprise-birthday-party/287-ea8960ea-4c3c-40c1-b75e-f4437fe6f836?__twitter_impression=true

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 25, 2020, 02:04:03 PM

Duval County (Jacksonville) keeps setting new records for daily new COVID cases, and the positivity rate keeps increasing. Seems like a good place for a big in-person national convention in a few weeks....

Duval, St. Johns report record increases in COVID-19 cases

https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2020/06/25/duval-st-johns-report-record-increases-in-covid-19-cases/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 25, 2020, 02:04:28 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 25, 2020, 09:34:00 AM

I will give you that the number of unfilled beds in Texas stat is a bit misleading since the beds are not all occupied with covid patients... but those beds are still occupied.  You can't just throw people out of them today so that people with covid can have them tomorrow.   Surely, you see the problem with that, aina?

And with cases rising, its inevitable that hospital beds will need to be filled with covid patients shortly.  Guess the folks who have elective procedures are on the back burner again because people can't be responsible.

And its official, Texas has suspended elective surgeries to free up space for covid patients.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 25, 2020, 02:17:54 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 25, 2020, 02:04:28 PM

And its official, Texas has suspended elective surgeries to free up space for covid patients.

Mission Accomplished

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 25, 2020, 03:32:07 PM

Mike Pence leader of White House task force, tours Lordstown Motors, Lordstown, Ohio. Not a single person wearing a mask including Pence.

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1276210845563969539?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 25, 2020, 04:00:52 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on June 25, 2020, 01:14:40 PM

18 North Texas relatives test positive for COVID-19 after surprise birthday party. Three are hospitalized so far including two elderly and a third with breast cancer:

https://www.wfaa.com/amp/article/news/north-texas-family-shaken-after-18-relatives-test-positive-for-covid-19-following-surprise-birthday-party/287-ea8960ea-4c3c-40c1-b75e-f4437fe6f836?__twitter_impression=true

I love the first sentence in the article. "As North Texas watches COVID-19 cases and hospitalizations surge, one family is shouldering a health crisis that they never expected to face."

Gathering in a large group, during a pandemic, in a hard hit state. But they "never expected to face" anything like this.

Sorry to say this, but people are really stupid.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 25, 2020, 11:52:54 PM

The worst is yet to come people. The monsters in charge can deny it - or say it is basically over, but we know what is coming.


Our leaders are literally killing people by refusing to tell them to wear masks. Trump, Pence, and many republican governors letting people die. Making daily choices to kill even more.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 26, 2020, 05:28:23 AM

Quote from: Jockey on June 25, 2020, 11:52:54 PM

The worst is yet to come people. The monsters in charge can deny it - or say it is basically over, but we know what is coming.


Our leaders are literally killing people by refusing to tell them to wear masks. Trump, Pence, and many republican governors letting people die. Making daily choices to kill even more.

I have to locate the article. My mom said she saw on the news a study conducted on masks revealed the following:
1 person has COVID-19 and both people wearing a mask the transmission rate is 1.5%.  1 person has COVID-19 and 1 person wears a mask the transmission rate is 5%
1 person has COVID-19 and  no one wears a mask the transmission rate is 70%.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 26, 2020, 07:15:55 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 26, 2020, 05:28:23 AM

I have to locate the article. My mom said she saw on the news a study conducted on masks revealed the following:
1 person has COVID-19 and both people wearing a mask the transmission rate is 1.5%.  1 person has COVID-19 and 1 person wears a mask the transmission rate is 5%
1 person has COVID-19 and  no one wears a mask the transmission rate is 70%.

I think this is what you're looking for:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/covid-19-mask-efficacy-chart/

But Snopes says the information is "Mostly False" because "no scientific consensus exists on the efficacy of homemade masks in stopping the spread of COVID-19."

However, there have been studies showing that wearing masks does offer a fairly significant degree of protection, though certainly not at the level that chart claims.

It's interesting that many of the same people who supported taking hydroxycloroquine -- an unvetted drug with proven adverse side effects -- because "what the hell do you have to lose?" refuse to consider a "what the hell do you have to lose?" argument for wearing masks, which have some evidence of success and absolutely no adverse side effects.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on June 26, 2020, 08:32:21 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/Avik/status/1276490546471677952

Another good thread this time digging into Florida numbers.  Interesting to see all the rabble rousing on here about Florida and there crappy data reporting and this guy who seems fairly down the middle says it’s the best detailed data you can find from any state.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 26, 2020, 08:40:47 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on June 26, 2020, 08:32:21 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/Avik/status/1276490546471677952

Another good thread this time digging into Florida numbers.  Interesting to see all the rabble rousing on here about Florida and there crappy data reporting and this guy who seems fairly down the middle says it’s the best detailed data you can find from any state.

"Fairly down the middle?"  He's the President of a right wing think tank.

But anyway, and he seems to be down playing this, but yes, younger people are less likley to be hospitalized and die.  BUT, when younger people get the virus, eventually older people do.

So yeah, if we could stick everyone who is 60+ years old in a bubble, everyone else can probably live their lives.  But that really isn't possible.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 26, 2020, 08:41:11 AM

Quote from: MU82 on June 26, 2020, 07:15:55 AM

I think this is what you're looking for:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/covid-19-mask-efficacy-chart/

But Snopes says the information is "Mostly False" because "no scientific consensus exists on the efficacy of homemade masks in stopping the spread of COVID-19."

However, there have been studies showing that wearing masks does offer a fairly significant degree of protection, though certainly not at the level that chart claims.

It's interesting that many of the same people who supported taking hydroxycloroquine -- an unvetted drug with proven adverse side effects -- because "what the hell do you have to lose?" refuse to consider a "what the hell do you have to lose?" argument for wearing masks, which have some evidence of success and absolutely no adverse side effects.

I found these.  You're right not exactly the stats my Mom was reciting but highly encouraging.  One from WHO & the other from TAMU.

Face masks may reduce COVID-19 spread by 85%, WHO-backed study suggests
By Rachael Rettner - Senior Writer 24 days ago
Here's how much face masks, social distancing and eye protection may help with preventing COVID-19 spread.
https://www.livescience.com/face-masks-eye-protection-covid-19-prevention.html

Face masks critical in preventing spread of COVID-19
Study found that wearing a face mask stopped person-to-person spread of the virus
Date: June 12, 2020    Source: Texas A&M University
Summary:  A study has found that not wearing a face mask dramatically increases a person's chances of being infected by the COVID-19 virus.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 26, 2020, 10:11:48 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on June 26, 2020, 08:32:21 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/Avik/status/1276490546471677952

Another good thread this time digging into Florida numbers.  Interesting to see all the rabble rousing on here about Florida and there crappy data reporting and this guy who seems fairly down the middle says it’s the best detailed data you can find from any state.

Happy to know if I have to go to the hospital, I probably won’t die based on my age.  That’s reassuring.  A few days at the hospital means less cooking for myself

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on June 26, 2020, 10:25:04 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on June 26, 2020, 08:32:21 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/Avik/status/1276490546471677952

Another good thread this time digging into Florida numbers.  Interesting to see all the rabble rousing on here about Florida and there crappy data reporting and this guy who seems fairly down the middle says it’s the best detailed data you can find from any state.

There is a difference between having detailed data, and intentionally excluding a significant amount of data. People are criticizing the latter.

Also, based on these numbers over 12% of cases end up in the hospital. That is a sobering statistic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 26, 2020, 10:35:58 AM

The spread is getting so bad in Texas that Abbott is finally beginning to reverse course. Bars closed at noon today (except takeout), and restaurants must go from 75% to 50% capacity. It's a start. Now about Florida, Arizona and other surging states....

Abbott, in a reversal, announces that Texas bars shut at noon Friday amid surging cases.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/26/world/coronavirus-live-updates.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage#link-6883f28

Gov. Greg Abbott of Texas ordered all bars to close on Friday and told restaurants to reduce their operating capacity, in an abrupt reversal of his previous policy as the nation’s second largest state grapples with surging coronavirus cases weeks after reopening.

The move comes just a day after Mr. Abbott, a Republican, put the state’s reopening on pause, while remaining firm that going “backward” and closing down businesses was “the last thing we want to do.”

By Friday, he said, “it is clear that the rise in cases is largely driven by certain types of activities, including Texans congregating in bars. The actions in this executive order are essential to our mission to swiftly contain this virus and protect public health.”

Under the order, bars must close effective 12 p.m. Friday locally, but they can remain open for take out. Restaurants, which had been operating at 75 percent capacity, can remain open, but must reduce capacity to 50 percent.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on June 26, 2020, 10:45:01 AM

Yessir, I remember reading that we needed to rush the reopening and that places like Florida, Texas, and Sweden were going to show the rest of us how it is done.     

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 26, 2020, 10:55:20 AM

Quote from: tower912 on June 26, 2020, 10:45:01 AM

Yessir, I remember reading that we needed to rush the reopening and that places like Florida, Texas, and Sweden were going to show the rest of us how it is done.   

Wait, so, we weren't supposed to be apologizing to Ron DeSantis?

We should have been listening to scientists and epidemiologists the entire time, and let the politicians shape the policy around what the scientists say.

Otherwise, why bother having scientists at all.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 26, 2020, 10:59:20 AM

Quote from: tower912 on June 26, 2020, 10:45:01 AM

Yessir, I remember reading that we needed to rush the reopening and that places like Florida, Texas, and Sweden were going to show the rest of us how it is done.   

To be fair, lots of states jumped the gun (IMHO) in reopening, but you are right that Texas and Florida are the poster children for worst practices.

I get why DeSantis doesn't want to shut anything back down or even mandate masks in Florida - it would antagonize POTUS and many in his state. But if he wants any real chance for the NBA, the RNC and a couple baseball teams to succeed later, it really would benefit him to take strong action NOW. If he doesn't, Jacksonville and Orlando could be where Houston and Dallas are today, just as masses of people would be coming to town.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on June 26, 2020, 11:00:47 AM

And we should all be wearing masks

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on June 26, 2020, 11:05:33 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on June 26, 2020, 08:32:21 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/Avik/status/1276490546471677952

Another good thread this time digging into Florida numbers.  Interesting to see all the rabble rousing on here about Florida and there crappy data reporting and this guy who seems fairly down the middle says it’s the best detailed data you can find from any state.

From the Tweet ...
If you want to understand what's going on with #COVID19 right now, the best place to look is Florida, because they do the best job of anyone in terms of data transparency.

That's an extraordinary take given that the person who created Florida's Department of Health dashboard said she was fired for refusing to manipulate the data and has presented evidence showing the state has consistently undercounted its cases.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on June 26, 2020, 11:09:27 AM

Florida reports almost 9000 new cases. That is almost double the previous high.  Winning!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on June 26, 2020, 11:12:13 AM

https://www.wesh.com/article/florida-bars-alcohol-consumption-suspended/32981423#

Florida is shutting down bars.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on June 26, 2020, 11:15:33 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 26, 2020, 05:28:23 AM

I have to locate the article. My mom said she saw on the news a study conducted on masks revealed the following:
1 person has COVID-19 and both people wearing a mask the transmission rate is 1.5%.  1 person has COVID-19 and 1 person wears a mask the transmission rate is 5%
1 person has COVID-19 and  no one wears a mask the transmission rate is 70%.

I saw this too and if it were true then getting kids back in school is a no brainer

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on June 26, 2020, 11:16:29 AM

Quote from: tower912 on June 26, 2020, 11:00:47 AM

And we should all be wearing masks

Seriously. The evidence seems to point to the fact that if everyone would simply wear masks in public the R(0) would be < 1 and we could actually get past this without further major disruptions.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on June 26, 2020, 11:20:15 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 26, 2020, 10:55:20 AM

Wait, so, we weren't supposed to be apologizing to Ron DeSantis?

We should have been listening to scientists and epidemiologists the entire time, and let the politicians shape the policy around what the scientists say.

Otherwise, why bother having scientists at all.

I repeat myself...(actually I repeat Tom Tomorrow).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on June 26, 2020, 11:22:08 AM

I think brewcity77 posted it here, but I have seen it elsewhere.     If 80% of the people wear masks 80% of the time, this would be all but done by autumn.   But......murca

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 26, 2020, 11:33:40 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on June 26, 2020, 11:20:15 AM

I repeat myself...(actually I repeat Tom Tomorrow).

I love that Tom Tomorrow.  He was a local New Haven area guy until last year.  He moved to NYC after going through a divorce.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 26, 2020, 11:46:18 AM

Quote from: tower912 on June 26, 2020, 11:00:47 AM

And we should all be wearing masks

I got attacked yesterday (verbally) by someone when I suggested people not wearing masks aren’t good people.  I used strong language, so I deserved it but the excuses for not wearing one are poor.  Like everything else, it’s political.  One thing has held largely true through our history of how to handle pandemics, especially when we learn we can transmit it to other humans, and that’s wearing masks can be very effective in preventing the spread.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on June 26, 2020, 12:39:35 PM

https://twitter.com/dremilyportermd/status/1276336319715835905

"Wear a mask. That is, unless you want to be intubated by a gynecology intern July 1st who did her last semester of med school via Zoom."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 26, 2020, 12:51:14 PM

Quote from: tower912 on June 26, 2020, 11:00:47 AM

And we should all be wearing masks

Absolutely. And following strict social distancing, coming into close proximity with a non-immediate family member when necessary (i.e., at the grocery checkout).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on June 26, 2020, 01:00:47 PM

Quote from: tower912 on June 26, 2020, 11:22:08 AM

I think brewcity77 posted it here, but I have seen it elsewhere.     If 80% of the people wear masks 80% of the time, this would be all but done by autumn.   But......murca

(https://scontent.fmia1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/79533537_3183343255038044_7542113340107294913_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=1480c5&_nc_ohc=OcXDVCeueckAX8NGKhr&_nc_ht=scontent.fmia1-2.fna&oh=46c23fd5a1d800eaac1b9b53f744a0a6&oe=5F1AD8CD)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 26, 2020, 01:48:45 PM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 26, 2020, 11:46:18 AM

I got attacked yesterday (verbally) by someone when I suggested people not wearing masks aren’t good people.  I used strong language, so I deserved it but the excuses for not wearing one are poor.  Like everything else, it’s political.  One thing has held largely true through our history of how to handle pandemics, especially when we learn we can transmit it to other humans, and that’s wearing masks can be very effective in preventing the spread.

Whether it is "political" is up for interpretation. It is just one foolish man trying to make it so.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GBPhoenix1993 on June 26, 2020, 03:06:44 PM

3 weeks ago, I was really hopeful that maybe, just maybe we had gotten through the worst of Covid-19 and that things had stabilized a bit.  Deaths were significantly down, hospitalizations were minimal in most places (not all, but most), cases were still on the high side but nowhere near what they were at the peak.  It was to the point that there was very little talk in the media about it, protests became the big story and Covid was relegated to 2nd place in terms of major news by far. 

3 weeks later, I think everything is completely different in a negative way.  With 40,000 cases found in one day, there is no way to sugarcoat that as a positive.  It is becoming fairly evident that some of the largest states, Texas, Florida, and California are now being hit with what either is the 2nd wave, or a more intense version of the 1st wave of infections.  Some of the other Southern and Southwest states are getting hit hard as well. 

I think it's a combination of extremely hot weather forcing more people in the South to spend more time indoors and more mass gatherings going on due to re-openings and people just being sick of lockdown and saying Screw-it!!  I'm not looking forward to seeing the death count from this new wave a month from now.  Maybe the only thing better about this wave is there is a possible treatment for the worst cases needing ventilators (the Dexamethasone steroid) so perhaps deaths can be at least somewhat more controlled this time but even that steroid isn't considered a sure fire cure. 

That all said.... 40,000 cases found in one day is a nightmare scenario.  We're right back to where we were when this thing peaked in April.  Not good. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on June 26, 2020, 03:27:49 PM

Quote from: GBPhoenix1993 on June 26, 2020, 03:06:44 PM

3 weeks ago, I was really hopeful that maybe, just maybe we had gotten through the worst of Covid-19 and that things had stabilized a bit.  Deaths were significantly down, hospitalizations were minimal in most places (not all, but most), cases were still on the high side but nowhere near what they were at the peak.  It was to the point that there was very little talk in the media about it, protests became the big story and Covid was relegated to 2nd place in terms of major news by far. 

3 weeks later, I think everything is completely different in a negative way.  With 40,000 cases found in one day, there is no way to sugarcoat that as a positive.  It is becoming fairly evident that some of the largest states, Texas, Florida, and California are now being hit with what either is the 2nd wave, or a more intense version of the 1st wave of infections.  Some of the other Southern and Southwest states are getting hit hard as well. 

I think it's a combination of extremely hot weather forcing more people in the South to spend more time indoors and more mass gatherings going on due to re-openings and people just being sick of lockdown and saying Screw-it!!  I'm not looking forward to seeing the death count from this new wave a month from now.  Maybe the only thing better about this wave is there is a possible treatment for the worst cases needing ventilators (the Dexamethasone steroid) so perhaps deaths can be at least somewhat more controlled this time but even that steroid isn't considered a sure fire cure. 

That all said.... 40,000 cases found in one day is a nightmare scenario.  We're right back to where we were when this thing peaked in April.  Not good.

Surprised you didn’t mention the main mass gathering that started happening, oh about 3 weeks ago now that involved shoulder to shoulder yelling for hours on end.  Arguing the mask or no mask thing as political but leaving that minor thing out, had nothing to do with the politics around it hey.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 26, 2020, 03:32:53 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on June 26, 2020, 03:27:49 PM

Surprised you didn’t mention the main mass gathering that started happening, oh about 3 weeks ago now that involved shoulder to shoulder yelling for hours on end.  Arguing the mask or no mask thing as political but leaving that minor thing out, had nothing to do with the politics around it hey.

Well we haven't seen huge increases in cases in many places where they had these protestts - like Minnesota for instance.

Where we have seen them is where a large number of people are congregating indoors.  Like bars in Florida and Texas.  Which is why they are closing. 

Unmasked, not spaced, indoors, sustained contact for 15 minutes.  That is how it spreads.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 26, 2020, 03:41:19 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 26, 2020, 03:32:53 PM

Well we haven't seen huge increases in cases in many places where they had these protestts - like Minnesota for instance.

Where we have seen them is where a large number of people are congregating indoors.  Like bars in Florida and Texas.  Which is why they are closing. 

Unmasked, not spaced, indoors, sustained contact for 15 minutes.  That is how it spreads.

Can we get an Amen.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on June 26, 2020, 03:43:28 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on June 26, 2020, 03:27:49 PM

Surprised you didn’t mention the main mass gathering that started happening, oh about 3 weeks ago now that involved shoulder to shoulder yelling for hours on end.  Arguing the mask or no mask thing as political but leaving that minor thing out, had nothing to do with the politics around it hey.

That is because there haven't been any outbreaks of COVID where the largest of the protests were happening.      However, there are huge outbreaks in states that didn't shut down, that didn't encourage quarantining or social distancing, that opened at the earliest, and are led by acolytes of the POTUS.     But I am sure that is merely coincidence.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GBPhoenix1993 on June 26, 2020, 03:48:29 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 26, 2020, 03:32:53 PM

Well we haven't seen huge increases in cases in many places where they had these protestts - like Minnesota for instance.

Where we have seen them is where a large number of people are congregating indoors.  Like bars in Florida and Texas.  Which is why they are closing. 

Unmasked, not spaced, indoors, sustained contact for 15 minutes.  That is how it spreads.

I have no doubt that SOME cases are out there due to the protests, but I think Fluffy Blue Monster is right, it is primarily indoors where the virus is likely to spread more rapidly. 

I was in Phoenix, AZ in February and got out of there about 2 weeks before the virus started getting bad across the country.  When I was there, it was comfortable to go outside most of the day and not spend too much time indoors.  Now that same area I was staying at in February, is now at 111 degrees out for a high temp today.  There is no way you can spend much time outdoors at 111 degrees unless you've got misty cold water blowing on you.  People are staying inside in air conditioned areas and it's contributing to spread in places like AZ that maybe weren't hit hard in March and April.  I think this is probably the true 1st wave of infections for AZ, CA, TX, and FL among other states.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 26, 2020, 04:04:46 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on June 26, 2020, 03:27:49 PM

Surprised you didn’t mention the main mass gathering that started happening, oh about 3 weeks ago now that involved shoulder to shoulder yelling for hours on end.  Arguing the mask or no mask thing as political but leaving that minor thing out, had nothing to do with the politics around it hey.

Cases in Hennepin County (Minneapolis) - the epicenter of the protest movement - are DOWN from 3 weeks ago.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 26, 2020, 04:07:26 PM

Quote from: GBPhoenix1993 on June 26, 2020, 03:48:29 PM

I have no doubt that SOME cases are out there due to the protests, but I think Fluffy Blue Monster is right, it is primarily indoors where the virus is likely to spread more rapidly. 

I was in Phoenix, AZ in February and got out of there about 2 weeks before the virus started getting bad across the country.  When I was there, it was comfortable to go outside most of the day and not spend too much time indoors.  Now that same area I was staying at in February, is now at 111 degrees out for a high temp today.  There is no way you can spend much time outdoors at 111 degrees unless you've got misty cold water blowing on you.  People are staying inside in air conditioned areas and it's contributing to spread in places like AZ that maybe weren't hit hard in March and April.  I think this is probably the true 1st wave of infections for AZ, CA, TX, and FL among other states.

Wow, we were told the warm weather would kill this thing.

But, I feel the same as you did. After the initial blow, I was very optimistic things would start to get better. But southern governors screwed the pooch on this.

EU countries did the right thing, took the economic hit, and are now on the way to opening up both their societies and their economies.

We took the physical and economic hits and are no better off. Cases are rising at an unbelievable pace and there are more economic hits on the way.

If people don’t do the right thing now, fall could be devastating.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 26, 2020, 04:13:39 PM

Quote from: GBPhoenix1993 on June 26, 2020, 03:06:44 PM

3 weeks ago, I was really hopeful that maybe, just maybe we had gotten through the worst of Covid-19 and that things had stabilized a bit.  Deaths were significantly down, hospitalizations were minimal in most places (not all, but most), cases were still on the high side but nowhere near what they were at the peak.  It was to the point that there was very little talk in the media about it, protests became the big story and Covid was relegated to 2nd place in terms of major news by far. 

3 weeks later, I think everything is completely different in a negative way.  With 40,000 cases found in one day, there is no way to sugarcoat that as a positive.  It is becoming fairly evident that some of the largest states, Texas, Florida, and California are now being hit with what either is the 2nd wave, or a more intense version of the 1st wave of infections.  Some of the other Southern and Southwest states are getting hit hard as well. 

I think it's a combination of extremely hot weather forcing more people in the South to spend more time indoors and more mass gatherings going on due to re-openings and people just being sick of lockdown and saying Screw-it!!  I'm not looking forward to seeing the death count from this new wave a month from now.  Maybe the only thing better about this wave is there is a possible treatment for the worst cases needing ventilators (the Dexamethasone steroid) so perhaps deaths can be at least somewhat more controlled this time but even that steroid isn't considered a sure fire cure. 

That all said.... 40,000 cases found in one day is a nightmare scenario.  We're right back to where we were when this thing peaked in April.  Not good.

As I read this post of yours, I said to myself: "Just wait until some Scooper blames it all on the protests."

And then I got to the next post.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 26, 2020, 04:15:26 PM

The economic hit was initially about the shutdowns.  But the economic damage will sustain if people don't feel safe.  And studies have shown that even without shutdowns, people aren't going to spend.

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/26/883899342/wallets-are-already-on-lockdown-people-pare-spending-as-sunbelt-cases-surge

Here is the underlying study that shows individual choices are much more signficant than the lockdowns when it the fall in consumer traffic.

https://bfi.uchicago.edu/working-paper/2020-80/

IOW, reopening wasn't going to make the economy better.  Making people safe was.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on June 26, 2020, 04:22:13 PM

Quote from: MU82 on June 26, 2020, 04:13:39 PM

As I read this post of yours, I said to myself: "Just wait until some Scooper blames it all on the protests."

And then I got to the next post.

Not at all what I said.  Just surprised he left it off a list I agreed with. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 26, 2020, 04:34:05 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 26, 2020, 04:15:26 PM

The economic hit was initially about the shutdowns.  But the economic damage will sustain if people don't feel safe.  And studies have shown that even without shutdowns, people aren't going to spend.

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/26/883899342/wallets-are-already-on-lockdown-people-pare-spending-as-sunbelt-cases-surge

Here is the underlying study that shows individual choices are much more signficant than the lockdowns when it the fall in consumer traffic.

https://bfi.uchicago.edu/working-paper/2020-80/

IOW, reopening wasn't going to make the economy better.  Making people safe was.

That was my point. We took the economic hit to make us safer. Through the actions of our leaders and millions of people across the country, we aren't.

As far as spending, I said months ago that people were not going to spend and it will be years before the economy is back. Folks don't want to get caught out in the cold when the second wave hits. Any extra $$$ are getting put away for that scenario.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GBPhoenix1993 on June 26, 2020, 06:00:26 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on June 26, 2020, 04:22:13 PM

Not at all what I said.  Just surprised he left it off a list I agreed with.

As others have pointed out, where the protests were prevalent hasn't completely matched where the recent spikes have been.  The protests in the Northern states don't seem to have brought a ton of new cases to those states.  There were major protests in the Twin Cities, Chicago, New York and yet it doesn't seem like they got an unreasonable amount of new cases.  In New York they are as low as they have been in awhile.

You've got a state like Florida, I'm sure there were some protests there, but I never heard that it was as prevalent there in terms of some of the cities mentioned above.  I really think with Florida's huge spike, it's more because this is their hot and humid season. There's more people indoors when they're not at a beach or swimming pool than there were 3 months ago when the weather was a little bit more forgiving for long periods outdoors.  You combine the weather forcing more indoors time with more businesses/bars being open and I think it's a good part of all the explosion of cases there.

I am sure there were some cases of spread due to the protests, but I really believe it's the indoor environments where the spread is most prevalent.  I think that's why everyone's more worried about November here in Wisconsin for the next wave as you'll have kids in school and more activities move indoors as the weather becomes too miserable to spend much time outdoors.  God, I hope we don't have another freaking shutdown here in WI but unfortunately it won't surprise me if we do, or at least some sort of partial shutdown. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 26, 2020, 06:06:56 PM

Quote from: Jockey on June 26, 2020, 04:34:05 PM

That was my point. We took the economic hit to make us safer. Through the actions of our leaders and millions of people across the country, we aren't.

As far as spending, I said months ago that people were not going to spend and it will be years before the economy is back. Folks don't want to get caught out in the cold when the second wave hits. Any extra $$$ are getting put away for that scenario.

I bought some more T.P. and Kleenex at Costco today. Just gettin' ready.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 26, 2020, 06:33:41 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 26, 2020, 04:15:26 PM

The economic hit was initially about the shutdowns.  But the economic damage will sustain if people don't feel safe.  And studies have shown that even without shutdowns, people aren't going to spend.

Your right, there’s a demand problem right now. And the economy isn’t helped if people put their stimulus checks into rainy day savings. Maybe in the next bailout instead of checks we should give out debit cards with expiration dates and no “cash back” features. Instant stimulus.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 26, 2020, 06:34:29 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 26, 2020, 06:33:41 PM

Your right, there’s a demand problem right now. And the economy isn’t helped if people put their stimulus checks into rainy day savings. Maybe in the next bailout instead of checks we should give out debit cards with expiration dates and no “cash back” features. Instant stimulus.

Bread and circuses!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 26, 2020, 06:42:28 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 26, 2020, 06:33:41 PM

Your right, there’s a demand problem right now. And the economy isn’t helped if people put their stimulus checks into rainy day savings. Maybe in the next bailout instead of checks we should give out debit cards with expiration dates and no “cash back” features. Instant stimulus.

So they'll use that to purchase stuff, and stick their regular money in the bank instead.

People aren't spending because they want to be prepared in case the economic situation is worse.  It's about confidence.  And its bad right now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: buckchuckler on June 26, 2020, 06:46:03 PM

nm

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 26, 2020, 07:33:18 PM

Quote from: Jockey on June 26, 2020, 04:34:05 PM

That was my point. We took the economic hit to make us safer. Through the actions of our leaders and millions of people across the country, we aren't.

As far as spending, I said months ago that people were not going to spend and it will be years before the economy is back. Folks don't want to get caught out in the cold when the second wave hits. Any extra $$$ are getting put away for that scenario.

Yep. That’s how I felt too, and that seems to be how it’s playing out.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 26, 2020, 07:34:42 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 26, 2020, 06:42:28 PM

So they'll use that to purchase stuff, and stick their regular money in the bank instead.

People aren't spending because they want to be prepared in case the economic situation is worse.  It's about confidence.  And its bad right now.

A certain age, anyway. Lots of young’uns don’t seem to have much fear. Out and about, crowding into bars where allowed. No masks, no social distancing. I’ve seen it here in Charlotte, and have seen it repeatedly in news accounts.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 26, 2020, 08:32:51 PM

Dr Tom’s analysis

https://twitter.com/drtomfrieden/status/1276681496624070657?s=21 (https://twitter.com/drtomfrieden/status/1276681496624070657?s=21)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on June 26, 2020, 08:47:12 PM

Haha did you see the video in one of the responses showing a Tennessee representative who is angry that he saw a jogger actually wearing a mask? He blamed it on the media.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 26, 2020, 11:13:26 PM

I definitely think some bad behaviors are leading to unnecessary spread, but people are also interpreting data now like it was data in March. It's not just about more tests being conducted now, but whom is being tested. Anyone who is admitted to the hospital is tested, employers who check for fevers are referring employees to get tested prior to returning to work, no questions asked testing sites are open in almost every state, etc. In March and April we were testing only those who were symptomatic enough to be admitted by and large.

All I'm saying is while there is certainly reason to be concerned I wouldn't jump on the we're all doomed train just yet because i don't think the hospitalization and death conversion rates will be as high as everyone in this thread thinks it will be.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 27, 2020, 05:31:02 AM

Moron.

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-reopen-maryland-co-founder-tests-positive-for-coronavirus-20200626-v4tbkkzitbcuxhjwdhx7vfvef4-story.html?fbclid=IwAR3JIb6le2VtvfOPnfPrnDOPv0U9jZAhRPkgj5vbBbn6ab_YkkMsCmDqzfc

A co-founder of the ReOpen Maryland movement, who attended rallies and church services without a mask during the pandemic, has tested positive for COVID-19.

Republican Tim Walters said on Facebook that he’s one of the nearly 2.5 million Americans who have been afflicted by the out-of-control spread of coronavirus. He also said he will not cooperate with public health officials’ efforts to track the virus.

“I was diagnosed yesterday at the ER with COVID-19 and here I am months after not wearing a mask at rallies, churches and so on and so it’s funny how capricious this thing is,” Walters said Thursday.

What started as a dry cough in March has now turned into a fever and vision problems. He said symptoms include a sore throat and a headache, as well as trouble holding down food.

The 53-year-old conservative said he has diabetes and had not always been in the best of health prior to contracting COVID-19.

Walters, a Navy veteran, organized ReOpen Maryland rallies in places including Annapolis, to protest efforts by the state’s governor, a Republican, to contain coronavirus.

According to Ballotpedia.com, Walters finished last among the six candidates who got votes to represent the 32nd district in Maryland House of Delegates in 2016. It was his second run for office.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 27, 2020, 06:28:55 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 26, 2020, 11:13:26 PM

All I'm saying is while there is certainly reason to be concerned I wouldn't jump on the we're all doomed train just yet because i don't think the hospitalization and death conversion rates will be as high as everyone in this thread thinks it will be.

Doomed I don’t know.  We are putting unnecessary stress on our hospitals though and actively encouraging behavior that leads to worse healthcare for all in affected areas (elective surgery cancellations).  We all said watch hospitalizations.  They are up.  Time to ring the bell again unfortunately.

We have slipped back into epidemic as a country. 

This sounds similar to NYC March

 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/26/opinion/coronavirus-arizona-hospitals.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/26/opinion/coronavirus-arizona-hospitals.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 27, 2020, 06:39:25 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 27, 2020, 06:28:55 AM

Doomed I don’t know.  We are putting unnecessary stress on our hospitals though and actively encouraging behavior that leads to worse healthcare for all in affected areas (elective surgery cancellations).  We all said watch hospitalizations.  They are up.  Time to ring the bell again unfortunately.

We have slipped back into epidemic as a country. 

This sounds similar to NYC March

 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/26/opinion/coronavirus-arizona-hospitals.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/26/opinion/coronavirus-arizona-hospitals.html)

Agreed.

Taking note and "ringing the bell," as you say, is several steps away from being "doomed."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 27, 2020, 08:31:54 AM

Quote from: MU82 on June 27, 2020, 05:31:02 AM

A co-founder of the ReOpen Maryland movement, who attended rallies and church services without a mask during the pandemic, has tested positive for COVID-19.

Republican Tim Walters said on Facebook that he’s one of the nearly 2.5 million Americans who have been afflicted by the out-of-control spread of coronavirus. He also said he will not cooperate with public health officials’ efforts to track the virus.

“I was diagnosed yesterday at the ER with COVID-19 and here I am months after not wearing a mask at rallies, churches and so on and so it’s funny how capricious this thing is,” Walters said Thursday.

What started as a dry cough in March has now turned into a fever and vision problems. He said symptoms include a sore throat and a headache, as well as trouble holding down food.

The 53-year-old conservative said he has diabetes and had not always been in the best of health prior to contracting COVID-19.

WTF?!?

So he already took actions that likely caused himself to contract COVID, and now he wants the virus to continue its (mostly) unabated spread to others?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 27, 2020, 08:38:35 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 27, 2020, 06:28:55 AM

Doomed I don’t know.  We are putting unnecessary stress on our hospitals though and actively encouraging behavior that leads to worse healthcare for all in affected areas (elective surgery cancellations).  We all said watch hospitalizations.  They are up.  Time to ring the bell again unfortunately.

We have slipped back into epidemic as a country. 

This sounds similar to NYC March

 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/26/opinion/coronavirus-arizona-hospitals.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/26/opinion/coronavirus-arizona-hospitals.html)

Hospitalization rates are definitely going up, but hospitalizations FOR Covid aren't going up at nearly the rates we would expect given what happened in the hard hit areas. Hospitalizations are up because of three areas: deferred medical issues that became exacerbated, elective procedure backlog, and patients coming in for Covid. Some patients are testing positive from the first two categories who are mild or asymptomatic which is good they are caught but don't represent significant death risk that those coming in for Covid treatment do.

Reopenings should have happened slower and more carefully. The protests very likely exacerbated the situation and so an expansion to the lesser hit regions was likely. What would be remarkable is if hospital systems didn't take the last couple of months to put surge planning in place....that would be almost criminal. Remember the whole plan is to not overwhelm a hospital system and to protect the vulnerable. If people wear masks and avoid high transmission events and we'll be fine.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 27, 2020, 08:38:56 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 27, 2020, 08:31:54 AM

WTF?!?

So he already took actions that likely caused himself to contract COVID, and now he wants the virus to continue its (mostly) unabated spread to others?

Maybe he's Swedish?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on June 27, 2020, 09:12:06 AM

Nah, he just doesn’t want to fall victim to, you know, Big Brother, Bill Gates, and, because, you know, it’s all a hoax anyway.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on June 27, 2020, 09:44:11 AM

He showed everybody how smart he is. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on June 27, 2020, 11:44:21 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 27, 2020, 08:38:35 AM

Hospitalization rates are definitely going up, but hospitalizations FOR Covid aren't going up at nearly the rates we would expect given what happened in the hard hit areas. Hospitalizations are up because of three areas: deferred medical issues that became exacerbated, elective procedure backlog, and patients coming in for Covid. Some patients are testing positive from the first two categories who are mild or asymptomatic which is good they are caught but don't represent significant death risk that those coming in for Covid treatment do.

Reopenings should have happened slower and more carefully. The protests very likely exacerbated the situation and so an expansion to the lesser hit regions was likely. What would be remarkable is if hospital systems didn't take the last couple of months to put surge planning in place....that would be almost criminal. Remember the whole plan is to not overwhelm a hospital system and to protect the vulnerable. If people wear masks and avoid high transmission events and we'll be fine.

Exactly I know for a fact if you go into a hospital for anything and have any symptom of covid you are put on the covid floor. So when my wife went in for surgery for kidney stones if she had a covid symptom she would have had been put on the covid floor and kept there until here test came back clear or she showed that she was handling the surgery and covid just fine.  I personally know of 3 cases of this alone

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 27, 2020, 11:59:18 AM

Quote from: tower912 on June 27, 2020, 09:44:11 AM

He showed everybody how smart he is.

My favorite story this week.

It's not gonna be easy for anything to top the K-Pop/TikTok kids story of last week, though.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on June 27, 2020, 01:13:13 PM

Florida Coronavirus hospitalizations rise beyond April levels, FIU study shows

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20200626/coronavirus-hospitalizations-rise-beyond-april-levels-fiu-study-shows

On Wednesday, 394 people were hospitalized, 84 of them in intensive care and 39 on ventilators, according to the latest data available on a website launched by the university this week.

The number of people hospitalized has increased steadily since mid-May when restrictions were eased to jump-start the economy. Admissions have continued to climb in the past week as the number of confirmed cases have reached record levels.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 27, 2020, 01:32:31 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on June 27, 2020, 01:13:13 PM

Florida Coronavirus hospitalizations rise beyond April levels, FIU study shows

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20200626/coronavirus-hospitalizations-rise-beyond-april-levels-fiu-study-shows

On Wednesday, 394 people were hospitalized, 84 of them in intensive care and 39 on ventilators, according to the latest data available on a website launched by the university this week.

The number of people hospitalized has increased steadily since mid-May when restrictions were eased to jump-start the economy. Admissions have continued to climb in the past week as the number of confirmed cases have reached record levels.

Yeesh, pbi. That's horrible.

And very under-reported is the damage COVID-19 can do to "survivors."

Here is a very informative, but sobering, take on this sh1tty virus.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/26/from-nose-to-toe-covid19-virus-attacks-like-no-other-respiratory-infection/?utm_source=STAT+Newsletters&utm_campaign=7ea7f29426-Daily_Recap&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_8cab1d7961-7ea7f29426-152391222&fbclid=IwAR3U4L6gqMUQ7L6mwpvCKNYyGGT9Wjjvx4ofkYHrCAJ3_X79YFU88suOtJs

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 27, 2020, 01:49:08 PM

Great story about a doc from Penn who saved his own life from a rare disease that led to cytokine storm, by using existing drugs approved for other purposes. That's a pretty amazing story in itself.

Now he is working full-time to evaluate all the studies of currently FDA-approved drugs that have been used to fight COVID. The short take-away is that antivirals (lopinovir and ritonivir) and corticosteroids (most notably dexamethasone) continue to look the most promising.

After saving his own life with a repurposed drug, a professor reviews every drug being tried against Covid-19. Here's what he's found

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/27/health/coronavirus-treatment-fajgenbaum-drug-review-scn-wellness/index.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 27, 2020, 02:13:33 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on June 27, 2020, 01:13:13 PM

Florida Coronavirus hospitalizations rise beyond April levels, FIU study shows

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20200626/coronavirus-hospitalizations-rise-beyond-april-levels-fiu-study-shows

On Wednesday, 394 people were hospitalized, 84 of them in intensive care and 39 on ventilators, according to the latest data available on a website launched by the university this week.

The number of people hospitalized has increased steadily since mid-May when restrictions were eased to jump-start the economy. Admissions have continued to climb in the past week as the number of confirmed cases have reached record levels.

Key reporting that's missing that they sort of hint at.....there is a difference between with and for. If you look at the historical rates for ventilation in that county (happen to know a doc in that system) they are up probably 10-15% from normal but between Covid, the age of the population, and delayed intervention leading to emergent outcomes like venting this shouldn't be a shock.

My issue with the current reporting/exasperated tone of discussion is not that Covid is a fraud(isn't) or we shouldn't wear masks(definitely should) it's that it's actually not based in science and appears motivated to shame a bunch of Karen's. The data set from March/April is a different data set from May/June.....the types of people being tested, quantities, etc is very different and so are going to lead to predictions that won't actually come true. I get the need to be cautious but let's have the actual science discussion instead of panic

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on June 27, 2020, 02:24:11 PM

That’d be great. Perhaps there could be a group designed to do that on a national level that announces useful information on a regular basis. And they would have a unified message speaking with one voice based solely on science.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 27, 2020, 02:41:16 PM

Cause we haven't had enough carrying about what a horrible job Trump and the CDC and other associated cronies have done? Does it really make you feel better just constantly going after that group? I mean if it does, cool I just thought this was a thread to discuss the virus and the science of it all with some policy discussion thrown in based on that. Or are we all just here to talk about what a moron your favorite or least favorite president is or isn't?

Let me know and I'll stop posting accordingly

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on June 27, 2020, 03:00:59 PM

At this point would a few more daily data points be good?  Instead of just cases and % why not add age to the daily metrics as well as symptomatic or asymptomatic. Make this more known that to the public

Moving of the bars to less capacity in some states was a good idea.  The bar scene has to be one of the easiest ways to transmit the virus.  1 person walks in with it stays for a few hours and it is spread all over everyone in that tight space.  In a bar not a chance a mask is being worn either.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 27, 2020, 03:04:41 PM

I hear you eng that its not perfect reporting - not perfect math.  There are multiple epidemiologists sounding the alarm in these states and at the national level.  I trust they understand how to read the data.  It doesnt help that these governments are also communicating in a not trustworthy manner.

I am a business guy - so its all common man observations here. 

- Our curve looks like no other country except maybe Iran. 
- Its not because we are running more tests, its because we are finding more positives
- It's still out of control...now just in new places.
- The media is reporting that (again concede not perfectly)

We need an intervention and plan.  The every state do your own thing strategy is a failure and it's time to ditch it or require better compliance to the CDC guidelines to reopening etc -- in my opinion. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on June 27, 2020, 03:37:44 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 27, 2020, 03:04:41 PM

I hear you eng that its not perfect reporting - not perfect math.  There are multiple epidemiologists sounding the alarm in these states and at the national level.  I trust they understand how to read the data.  It doesnt help that these governments are also communicating in a not trustworthy manner.

I am a business guy - so its all common man observations here. 

- Our curve looks like no other country except maybe Iran. 
- Its not because we are running more tests, its because we are finding more positives
- It's still out of control...now just in new places.
- The media is reporting that (again concede not perfectly)

We need an intervention and plan.  The every state do your own thing strategy is a failure and it's time to ditch it or require better compliance to the CDC guidelines to reopening etc -- in my opinion.

Mandate masks indoors or outdoors if social distancing is not able to happen (I am thinking like at a HS football game.  indoor capacity should not be above 50%.  That is where I would start

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on June 27, 2020, 04:18:58 PM

(https://images2.imgbox.com/b9/7d/clZWspIb_o.png) (http://imgbox.com/clZWspIb)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on June 27, 2020, 04:46:32 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 27, 2020, 02:41:16 PM

Cause we haven't had enough carrying about what a horrible job Trump and the CDC and other associated cronies have done? Does it really make you feel better just constantly going after that group? I mean if it does, cool I just thought this was a thread to discuss the virus and the science of it all with some policy discussion thrown in based on that. Or are we all just here to talk about what a moron your favorite or least favorite president is or isn't?

Let me know and I'll stop posting accordingly

You complain about not having a fact based discussion, then you complain about the explanation of why that isn’t possible.

Okay, here. Everything will be fine, open everything up, go back to normal. Heck, it only kills old people and you aren’t old.  And if we just stop testing, it’s all good. It’s only the testing that causes the hysteria.

Feel better?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on June 27, 2020, 07:11:12 PM

OK data geeks (I say that lovingly), can we tell anything from the data about how much progress we are making in treated the virus? Percentage recovered after hospitalization perhaps, understanding that this won't be perfect as the patients profiles change?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on June 27, 2020, 07:22:38 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on June 27, 2020, 07:11:12 PM

OK data geeks (I say that lovingly), can we tell anything from the data about how much progress we are making in treated the virus? Percentage recovered after hospitalization perhaps, understanding that this won't be perfect as the patients profiles change?

Although we assuredly are doing much better treating the virus. I don't think we can answer that question based on any data we currently have. The reason is there are too many variables we don't have data on, and don't even realize are important.

For instance, it's possible that our immune systems are better at fighting this virus in summer, due to seasonal variations in immune responses. If so, better results, may simply reflect seasonal variations, and not improved treatments. There are a number of other possibilities.

So, we have improved treatment plans, that are significantly impacting prognosis. But quantifying it is a bit of a fools errand as there are too many variables we don't understand.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 27, 2020, 07:31:23 PM

Quote from: forgetful on June 27, 2020, 07:22:38 PM

Although we assuredly are doing much better treating the virus. I don't think we can answer that question based on any data we currently have. The reason is there are too many variables we don't have data on, and don't even realize are important.

For instance, it's possible that our immune systems are better at fighting this virus in summer, due to seasonal variations in immune responses. If so, better results, may simply reflect seasonal variations, and not improved treatments. There are a number of other possibilities.

So, we have improved treatment plans, that are significantly impacting prognosis. But quantifying it is a bit of a fools errand as their are too many variables we don't understand.

+1

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 27, 2020, 07:32:03 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on June 27, 2020, 04:46:32 PM

You complain about not having a fact based discussion, then you complain about the explanation of why that isn’t possible.

Okay, here. Everything will be fine, open everything up, go back to normal. Heck, it only kills old people and you aren’t old.  And if we just stop testing, it’s all good. It’s only the testing that causes the hysteria.

Feel better?

No, because think this is a talking points discussion and its not

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on June 27, 2020, 08:00:58 PM

Tomorrow's 60 minutes will air a 3 month investigation which shows Federal officials knew many U.S. COVID-19 antibody tests sold were flawed but they let them continue anyway.

https://twitter.com/60Minutes/status/1276880333158395909?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 27, 2020, 08:23:38 PM

Connecticut Magazine had an interesting read on Connecticut first diagnosed patient.  He had an 8 week ordeal including being on a ventilator and having new born twins at home.  There was a blurb at the end of the article with the doctor summarizing treatment at the beginning of the pandemic vs now. 

Connecticut’s first coronavirus patient and the team that saved his life
Erik Ofgang May 22, 2020
https://www.connecticutmag.com/issues/features/connecticut-s-first-coronavirus-patient-and-the-team-that-saved-his-life/article_dca0bcb6-9ace-11ea-a993-8bd474c01a9e.html

Two months later, in early May, the protocols for treating coronavirus had changed since the state saw its first patient, and they continue to evolve rapidly, Nee says. “Every week I think I know the virus and then at the end of the week I’ve learned something new. When we went into this in March, we had experience from China and Italy. We initiated early intubation, tried medications with potential antiviral activity. Today, we’ve learned to perhaps avoid intubation by using various oxygen-delivery devices. At times, we still use antivirals, but we also try to block aspects of the immune response which are detrimental to lungs with specific medications. We also have found high rates of thromboembolic events [blood clots leading to pulmonary embolism or stroke], so some patients get blood thinners to prevent those clots.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 27, 2020, 08:30:03 PM

Quote from: forgetful on June 27, 2020, 07:22:38 PM

Although we assuredly are doing much better treating the virus. I don't think we can answer that question based on any data we currently have. The reason is there are too many variables we don't have data on, and don't even realize are important.

For instance, it's possible that our immune systems are better at fighting this virus in summer, due to seasonal variations in immune responses. If so, better results, may simply reflect seasonal variations, and not improved treatments. There are a number of other possibilities.

So, we have improved treatment plans, that are significantly impacting prognosis. But quantifying it is a bit of a fools errand as their are too many variables we don't understand.

Agreed. We are certainly making progress, but we don’t yet know if it’s  baby steps or big strides.

We may not be able to quantify the progress until sometime this fall, when we learn how the current surge in cases translates into deaths, and the immune system returns to the “off-season“ mode.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 27, 2020, 10:04:44 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on June 27, 2020, 08:00:58 PM

Tomorrow's 60 minutes will air a 3 month investigation which shows Federal officials knew many U.S. COVID-19 antibody tests sold were flawed but they let them continue anyway.

https://twitter.com/60Minutes/status/1276880333158395909?s=19

Bleh, anyone who was paying attention knew this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on June 28, 2020, 08:39:34 AM

Quote from: forgetful on June 27, 2020, 07:22:38 PM

Although we assuredly are doing much better treating the virus. I don't think we can answer that question based on any data we currently have. The reason is there are too many variables we don't have data on, and don't even realize are important.

For instance, it's possible that our immune systems are better at fighting this virus in summer, due to seasonal variations in immune responses. If so, better results, may simply reflect seasonal variations, and not improved treatments. There are a number of other possibilities.

So, we have improved treatment plans, that are significantly impacting prognosis. But quantifying it is a bit of a fools errand as there are too many variables we don't understand.

Quote from: mu03eng on June 27, 2020, 07:31:23 PM

+1

Damn guys, in the consulting world we usually charge six figures to come up with a non-answer like that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 28, 2020, 09:18:45 AM

Analysis/comment on current situation.  Also an opinion about treatment/vaccine in comment.

https://twitter.com/scottgottliebmd/status/1277214331785142273?s=21 (https://twitter.com/scottgottliebmd/status/1277214331785142273?s=21)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on June 28, 2020, 09:54:41 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on June 28, 2020, 08:39:34 AM

Damn guys, in the consulting world we usually charge six figures to come up with a non-answer like that.

For pay, I throw in graphs, charts, and pages of data, that is all summarized by the same non-answer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on June 28, 2020, 10:30:45 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on June 28, 2020, 08:39:34 AM

Damn guys, in the consulting world we usually charge six figures to come up with a non-answer like that.

Not nearly long enough of a non answer for 6 figures. More like the 5 figure summary to justify the 6 figure answer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 28, 2020, 02:24:41 PM

Quote from: forgetful on June 28, 2020, 09:54:41 AM

For pay, I throw in graphs, charts, and pages of data, that is all summarized by the same non-answer.

Well done, Forgetful.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 28, 2020, 04:55:22 PM

Dr. Tom Frieden, the former director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said the recent surge in coronavirus cases across parts of the country is the result of the virus’s spreading, not increased testing, as President Donald Trump has argued.

“As a doctor, a scientist, an epidemiologist, I can tell you with 100% certainty that in most states where you’re seeing an increase, it is a real increase,” Frieden told “Fox News Sunday.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 28, 2020, 05:05:13 PM

A ‘very swift and a very dangerous turn’: Texans get a warning from their governor.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/28/world/coronavirus-updates.html#link-93a18de

As the Texas governor warned that the virus had taken a “very swift and a very dangerous turn,” Vice President Mike Pence urged people to wear masks during a visit to the state on Sunday.

Gov. Gregg Abbott said the rate of positive Covid-19 tests had risen to more than 13 percent from less than 4 percent in the past month and that it was an “alarm bell” for the residents of Texas.

Mr. Abbott made the grim assessment after meeting with Mr. Pence and  Deborah Birx, the coordinator of the White House Coronavirus Task Force. Mr. Pence and Dr. Birx joined the governor in urging all Texans to cover their faces and avoid close contact in crowds.

——————

Big change from Pence, as he wears a mask in public and urges others to do so as well. It seems like everyone in the administration has finally conceded that this is necessary except one guy.

The dramatic increase in positivity rate is also evidence that the virus is spreading, and that the increases are not the result of increased testing. If we simply carpet bombed the country with testing and the virus wasn’t spreading, the positivity rate would fall to the low single digits.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on June 28, 2020, 08:45:33 PM

CDC acknowledges mixing up coronavirus testing

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/cdc-acknowledges-mixing-up-coronavirus-testing-data/ar-BB14qGHG?ocid=sf&fbclid=IwAR3oEV2PpTBXkn7L9njyWjnDih7nIzA21jh_2L8dETrUw2XTYoL20sAQU58

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) acknowledged Thursday that it is combining the results from viral and antibody COVID-19 tests when reporting the country's testing totals, despite marked differences between the tests.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on June 28, 2020, 10:11:37 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 26, 2020, 04:04:46 PM

Cases in Hennepin County (Minneapolis) - the epicenter of the protest movement - are DOWN from 3 weeks ago.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Avik/status/1277431506621861889/photo/1

Unfortunately Minnesota is also seeing a spike

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 28, 2020, 10:13:52 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on June 28, 2020, 10:11:37 PM

https://mobile.twitter.com/Avik/status/1277431506621861889/photo/1

Unfortunately Minnesota is also seeing a spike

Minnesota is seeing a spike among 20 somethings, but the overall rate is not going up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 28, 2020, 11:53:06 PM

Dr. Anthony Fauci says he would "settle" for a Covid-19 vaccine that's 70% to 75% effective, but that this incomplete protection, coupled with the fact that many Americans say they won't get a coronavirus vaccine, makes it "unlikely" that the US will achieve sufficient levels of immunity to quell the outbreak

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 29, 2020, 12:19:30 AM

Quote from: Jockey on June 28, 2020, 11:53:06 PM

Dr. Anthony Fauci says he would "settle" for a Covid-19 vaccine that's 70% to 75% effective, but that this incomplete protection, coupled with the fact that many Americans say they won't get a coronavirus vaccine, makes it "unlikely" that the US will achieve sufficient levels of immunity to quell the outbreak

Gotta start somewhere. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 29, 2020, 06:31:53 AM

Quote from: Jockey on June 28, 2020, 11:53:06 PM

Dr. Anthony Fauci says he would "settle" for a Covid-19 vaccine that's 70% to 75% effective, but that this incomplete protection, coupled with the fact that many Americans say they won't get a coronavirus vaccine, makes it "unlikely" that the US will achieve sufficient levels of immunity to quell the outbreak

The group that says they are unlikely to get a vaccine is likely posturing. Doubr seriously there are a lot of anti-vaxxers out there just to "own the libs" or whatever silly stuff non-mask wearing acolytes are saying these days.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 29, 2020, 07:00:10 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 29, 2020, 06:31:53 AM

The group that says they are unlikely to get a vaccine is likely posturing. Doubr seriously there are a lot of anti-vaxxers out there just to "own the libs" or whatever silly stuff non-mask wearing acolytes are saying these days.

I think it was a message that we need to go through our processes to prove safety and efficacy.  Especially with the news today that China is going to let their vaccine rip with the military. 

Getting people to take a vaccine is a real problem even putting anti-vaxxers aside. If you screw it up by going too fast it can be a real barrier (ie polio).  Or not making it widely available for those that do not have healthcare.

As a recent example I didn’t get a flu shot in the past - not fully effective and I am not afraid of the flu.  Well after living through this I understand the science much better and will be getting one here forward. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 29, 2020, 08:28:22 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 29, 2020, 06:31:53 AM

The group that says they are unlikely to get a vaccine is likely posturing. Doubr seriously there are a lot of anti-vaxxers out there just to "own the libs" or whatever silly stuff non-mask wearing acolytes are saying these days.

Maybe I'm being too optimistic, but I hope this pandemic might put a serious dent in the anti-vax movement.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on June 29, 2020, 08:44:23 AM

Give me the shot.   I have the entire hepatitis set.  Flu shots every year.   Tetanus.  I come into contact with too many sick people to ever say no to a vaccine.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on June 29, 2020, 08:50:54 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 29, 2020, 12:19:30 AM

Gotta start somewhere.

We can’t even agree on wearing a mask. We are stuck in this environment until something that doesn’t require general public involvement. Record numbers of cases, rising hospital totals, and still an almost violent reaction to the smallest of steps, despite ample evidence it works.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on June 29, 2020, 08:56:10 AM

Good stuff here: https://covidtracking.com/blog/why-changing-covid-19-demographics-in-the-us-make-death-trends-harder-to

I did not realize that there is a ~7 day lag between a death and the reporting of the death.

"This [reporting lag] may be one reason why the US deaths trend currently differs from Brazil and India. In those, cases have risen consistently; the current surge in the US comes after a decline and a plateau."

"Some anecdotal and statistical evidence suggests that the average age of people with COVID-19 is declining, which complicates expectations that deaths will increase in step with new cases. <snip> In the Dallas-Fort Worth region of Abbott’s state, the University of Texas Southwestern reports that the age distribution of positive COVID-19 tests has shifted dramatically from March to June, with a peak under 30 years old. Hospitalizations and ICU admissions in the DFW region have also shifted younger if less dramatically; 50% of hospitalized patients are under 50, as are 30% of ICU patients."

"In areas where younger adults are driving new infections, we might not see deaths spike until infections overflow into more vulnerable populations. “If what is happening are outbreaks in young people, it seems likely that these young people will go on to transmit to others in their communities,” Dean writes in an email. “This spillover would cause a subsequent rise in cases among older people, followed by a lagged rise in deaths.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 29, 2020, 09:39:15 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on June 29, 2020, 08:50:54 AM

We can’t even agree on wearing a mask. We are stuck in this environment until something that doesn’t require general public involvement. Record numbers of cases, rising hospital totals, and still an almost violent reaction to the smallest of steps, despite ample evidence it works.

A single man could change the mask debate overnight.  He won't.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 29, 2020, 09:41:14 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on June 29, 2020, 08:56:10 AM

Good stuff here: https://covidtracking.com/blog/why-changing-covid-19-demographics-in-the-us-make-death-trends-harder-to

I did not realize that there is a ~7 day lag between a death and the reporting of the death.

"This [reporting lag] may be one reason why the US deaths trend currently differs from Brazil and India. In those, cases have risen consistently; the current surge in the US comes after a decline and a plateau."

"Some anecdotal and statistical evidence suggests that the average age of people with COVID-19 is declining, which complicates expectations that deaths will increase in step with new cases. <snip> In the Dallas-Fort Worth region of Abbott’s state, the University of Texas Southwestern reports that the age distribution of positive COVID-19 tests has shifted dramatically from March to June, with a peak under 30 years old. Hospitalizations and ICU admissions in the DFW region have also shifted younger if less dramatically; 50% of hospitalized patients are under 50, as are 30% of ICU patients."

"In areas where younger adults are driving new infections, we might not see deaths spike until infections overflow into more vulnerable populations. “If what is happening are outbreaks in young people, it seems likely that these young people will go on to transmit to others in their communities,” Dean writes in an email. “This spillover would cause a subsequent rise in cases among older people, followed by a lagged rise in deaths.”

That makes a lot of sense. The current spike in cases may not initially result in a death toll like the Seattle/NYC outbreaks did, but we may see a secondary spike in cases and eventually deaths as these 20 and 30 somethings go home and infect older family members or other contacts.

Improving medical care is very likely also a factor in declining morbidly and mortality, but the point stands that we should not be too overconfident if the death tally from the current spike doesn’t rise dramatically in the next couple of weeks. I would focus more on the latter half of July and into August to see what happens to the death toll from the spread of the current wave.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 29, 2020, 10:25:39 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 29, 2020, 09:41:14 AM

That makes a lot of sense. The current spike in cases may not initially result in a death toll like the Seattle/NYC outbreaks did, but we may see a secondary spike in cases and eventually deaths as these 20 and 30 somethings go home and infect older family members or other contacts.

Improving medical care is very likely also a factor in declining morbidly and mortality, but the point stands that we should not be too overconfident if the death tally from the current spike doesn’t rise dramatically in the next couple of weeks. I would focus more on the latter half of July and into August to see what happens to the death toll from the spread of the current wave.

This is why I was sounding the alarm about over-prognostication with this new infection rate. The infection rate is going up, but it doesn't necessarily correlate to hospitalizations and deaths for Covid. It still could, it'll be about another week for hospitalizations and another 2-3 for deaths to really start definitively tracking the infection rate (if it is going to). Early indications are that it isn't going to track anywhere near where it did in the early days.

Bars and restaurants being open for indoor dining is still probably a bad idea, but the concept of a general re-opening of society is going to come with increased infection rate (how high depends on mask/spacing adherence) and as long as we are protecting the vulnerable I think it's the right balance.

We'll see what the end of next week brings from the numbers but in the early analysis I'm cautiously optimistic that this surge in infections will not overwhelm the hospital systems which is kind of the whole point.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 29, 2020, 10:59:23 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 29, 2020, 08:28:22 AM

Maybe I'm being too optimistic, but I hope this pandemic might put a serious dent in the anti-vax movement.

Man, I don’t see it all.  If anything, I think the anti-vaxxer crowd are more emboldened than ever

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 29, 2020, 11:39:44 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 29, 2020, 08:28:22 AM

Maybe I'm being too optimistic, but I hope this pandemic might put a serious dent in the anti-vax movement.

I don’t know. While we may have a vaccine in 6 months, we will not have a vaccine that is known to be safe. There will be no way to know if there are intermediate or long-term effects.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 29, 2020, 11:43:33 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 29, 2020, 09:39:15 AM

A single man could change the mask debate overnight.  He won't.

Correct. One man has made not wearing a mask into a political statement instead of a health statement.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 29, 2020, 01:24:18 PM

Quote from: Jockey on June 29, 2020, 11:39:44 AM

I don’t know. While we may have a vaccine in 6 months, we will not have a vaccine that is known to be safe. There will be no way to know if there are intermediate or long-term effects.

Part of my optimism is rooted in skepticism that we will have a COVID vaccine anywhere near 6 months from now. I think we will go through the fall/winter flu season having to rely on masks, social distancing and gradual improvements in care protocols, so people will begin to reassess whether they really want to face the possibility of getting both in the same season...and maybe even contracting COVID just after having a nasty flu. I also think that as the months go by, more and more 'COVID doubters' will know someone among their family, friends or coworkers who has faced the virus and learned how bad it is. Because of that, I think (hope?) more people will get the flu vaccine this fall, and more people will get a COVID vaccine whenever one is approved.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 29, 2020, 03:10:18 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 29, 2020, 01:24:18 PM

Part of my optimism is rooted in skepticism that we will have a COVID vaccine anywhere near 6 months from now. I think we will go through the fall/winter flu season having to rely on masks, social distancing and gradual improvements in care protocols, so people will begin to reassess whether they really want to face the possibility of getting both in the same season...and maybe even contracting COVID just after having a nasty flu. I also think that as the months go by, more and more 'COVID doubters' will know someone among their family, friends or coworkers who has faced the virus and learned how bad it is. Because of that, I think (hope?) more people will get the flu vaccine this fall, and more people will get a COVID vaccine whenever one is approved.

I hope you’re right. I never even considered getting a flu shot forever. I don’t get sick. I have never been in the hospital. I went 25 years without even getting the flu. Finally, after getting the flu two years ago I decided to get the shot in the fall. Actually, I think my wife decided cuz she caught it from me.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on June 29, 2020, 04:08:32 PM

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53218704

Let's hope this doesn't become a 2nd pandemic. 2020 doesn't need any more major threats.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 29, 2020, 04:15:04 PM

Quote from: forgetful on June 29, 2020, 04:08:32 PM

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53218704

Let's hope this doesn't become a 2nd pandemic. 2020 doesn't need any more major threats.

Wow. That would be just devastating. COVID will definitely still be here in the fall, so another 'pandemic potential' flu bug could overwhelm resources everywhere.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on June 29, 2020, 04:25:01 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 29, 2020, 04:15:04 PM

Wow. That would be just devastating. COVID will definitely still be here in the fall, so another 'pandemic potential' flu bug could overwhelm resources everywhere.

Something like this could be devastating, it doesn't even have to be that deadly. The fact that our current vaccines don't work for it can easily overwhelm our system. Not to mention all our facilities/resources on the vaccine front being devoted elsewhere.

Let's hope it doesn't emerge.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on June 29, 2020, 05:10:06 PM

I think the world would react extremely poorly to another bad virus originating in China.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 29, 2020, 06:21:21 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 29, 2020, 10:25:39 AM

This is why I was sounding the alarm about over-prognostication with this new infection rate. The infection rate is going up, but it doesn't necessarily correlate to hospitalizations and deaths for Covid. It still could, it'll be about another week for hospitalizations and another 2-3 for deaths to really start definitively tracking the infection rate (if it is going to). Early indications are that it isn't going to track anywhere near where it did in the early days.

Bars and restaurants being open for indoor dining is still probably a bad idea, but the concept of a general re-opening of society is going to come with increased infection rate (how high depends on mask/spacing adherence) and as long as we are protecting the vulnerable I think it's the right balance.

We'll see what the end of next week brings from the numbers but in the early analysis I'm cautiously optimistic that this surge in infections will not overwhelm the hospital systems which is kind of the whole point.

I would guess that the hospital system won’t break.  Particularly since it didn’t break in NYC.  I would agree that we don’t have the same level of spread as that outbreak yet.  The positivity rate just isn’t comparable yet in those places affected today. 

I would disagree on the balance though.  If we are going to strive to live with a certain level of spread we should not push it to a level where the hospitals have to end elective surgery.  This is bad for them economically and bad for people health wise. 

I saw this put in a good question.  Do we want bars or kids in school.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on June 29, 2020, 08:01:14 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 28, 2020, 10:13:52 PM

Minnesota is seeing a spike among 20 somethings, but the overall rate is not going up.

And from what I could tell in the news coverage the vast majority of protestors fell into that age group of 20-29 which was the context of me posting that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 29, 2020, 08:03:57 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on June 29, 2020, 08:01:14 PM

And from what I could tell in the news coverage the vast majority of protestors fell into that age group of 20-29 which was the context of me posting that.

I wouldn’t be surprised where protests led to trips to the bar—where that was available. 

The northeast and DC don’t seem to have a protest boost in cases yet.  Of course it could be coming if protesters bring the virus home..but not yet. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 29, 2020, 08:04:58 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on June 29, 2020, 08:01:14 PM

And from what I could tell in the news coverage the vast majority of protestors fell into that age group of 20-29 which was the context of me posting that.

Present your evidence that it is protestors that are getting sick.  Otherwise, its just conjecture.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on June 29, 2020, 08:07:00 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 29, 2020, 08:04:58 PM

Present your evidence that it is protestors that are getting sick.  Otherwise, its just TALKING POINTS

Fify

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on June 29, 2020, 08:12:08 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on June 29, 2020, 08:01:14 PM

And from what I could tell in the news coverage the vast majority of protestors fell into that age group of 20-29 which was the context of me posting that.

Science.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/recent-protests-may-not-be-covid-19-transmission-hotspots-11592498020

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on June 29, 2020, 08:31:55 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on June 29, 2020, 08:01:14 PM

And from what I could tell in the news coverage the vast majority of protestors fell into that age group of 20-29 which was the context of me posting that.

And from what I could tell the vast majority of bar patrons fell into that 20-29 age group.
Occum wins again!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 29, 2020, 08:45:02 PM

This is getting a lot of attention from Docs tonight.  Not positive but a rare media quote from the CDC

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/29/cdc-says-us-has-way-too-much-virus-to-control-pandemic-as-cases-surge-across-country.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/29/cdc-says-us-has-way-too-much-virus-to-control-pandemic-as-cases-surge-across-country.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 29, 2020, 09:00:51 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on June 29, 2020, 08:01:14 PM

And from what I could tell in the news coverage the vast majority of protestors fell into that age group of 20-29 which was the context of me posting that.

The coverage I saw included little kids to elderly adults. I have no idea what the numbers were or how much the protests may have contributed to the 20-29 spike. I do know, however, that many outbreaks have been traced to indoor activities like house and bar parties.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 29, 2020, 09:14:49 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 29, 2020, 08:45:02 PM

This is getting a lot of attention from Docs tonight.  Not positive but a rare media quote from the CDC

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/29/cdc-says-us-has-way-too-much-virus-to-control-pandemic-as-cases-surge-across-country.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/29/cdc-says-us-has-way-too-much-virus-to-control-pandemic-as-cases-surge-across-country.html)

I think she's right - we probably won't "control" this like New Zealand, South Korea or Singapore, so it will be a long time before we can go back to anything remotely resembling "normal" life. Instead, states will ratchet the economy back and forth to try to keep from overwhelming the healthcare system, and we will all have to wear masks, isolate from others, and watch more and more businesses close until we finally get a vaccine or broadly effective medications.

This sucks, but we're probably gonna be walking this tightrope for many months.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on June 29, 2020, 09:43:56 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on June 29, 2020, 08:31:55 PM

And from what I could tell the vast majority of bar patrons fell into that 20-29 age group.
Occum wins again!

What are you doing out in the bars right now???  Do as I say not as I do!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on June 29, 2020, 10:06:41 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on June 29, 2020, 09:43:56 PM

What are you doing out in the bars right now???  Do as I say not as I do!!

::)
Using your logic:
So you were out protesting?????

There is this thing called the internet. It has videos and pictures and stuff. You can actually see what’s going on.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 30, 2020, 07:46:53 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 29, 2020, 08:45:02 PM

This is getting a lot of attention from Docs tonight.  Not positive but a rare media quote from the CDC

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/29/cdc-says-us-has-way-too-much-virus-to-control-pandemic-as-cases-surge-across-country.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/29/cdc-says-us-has-way-too-much-virus-to-control-pandemic-as-cases-surge-across-country.html)

Sweden looking at us:

(https://media.tenor.com/images/79b773c092464781a0949c6f808e8345/tenor.gif)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 30, 2020, 08:38:55 AM

Interview with the former head of the CDC.

 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/dr-tom-frieden-blaming-cdc-us-covid-failures-like-blaming-someone/ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/dr-tom-frieden-blaming-cdc-us-covid-failures-like-blaming-someone/)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on June 30, 2020, 08:48:42 AM

My lord... last time I looked (a day ago?) at the COVID-19 Dashboard we had 126,000 deaths.  Now we are nearly at 130,000?

Ugh.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 30, 2020, 09:10:46 AM

Hey guys, remember when we couldn't go back to shutdown?  Seems like the hard hit states are doing that.

The rest of us won't be far behind.

Odd that a lot of people who don't want to wear masks are the same ones that want everything to be opened up, schools started in the fall, and the economy back to normal.

I'd love to see a poll on the overlap of those people.

At this point, we are watching a slow death.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 30, 2020, 09:46:56 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 30, 2020, 09:10:46 AM

Hey guys, remember when we couldn't go back to shutdown?  Seems like the hard hit states are doing that.

The rest of us won't be far behind.

Yep. As recently as a week or two ago, many were saying that we would never turn back once we reopened. Now we are seeing many states pause reopening, and some even begin to reverse course. And while this is currently occurring mostly in red states that led the vanguard of reopening, it is quickly spreading even to blue states that followed along.

I understand we could not ignore the dire economic reality of remaining shut down, but in reopening too soon we exposed ourselves to the even more dire reality of reopening, allowing more spread of the virus, and then shutting back down. The cost of ignoring science.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 30, 2020, 10:26:53 AM

If this holds up in review it should put to bed the role and prevalence of asymptomatic carriers (45% Of survey and shedded virus).  Also has peak shedding as the two days prior to symptom onset.  Interesting study. 

 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2488-1_reference.pdf (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2488-1_reference.pdf)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on June 30, 2020, 10:51:52 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 30, 2020, 10:26:53 AM

If this holds up in review it should put to bed the role and prevalence of asymptomatic carriers (45% Of survey and shedded virus).  Also has peak shedding as the two days prior to symptom onset.  Interesting study. 

 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2488-1_reference.pdf (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2488-1_reference.pdf)

Interesting study, but according to their numbers and methods, they didn't do anything to correct for possible false positives in their testing. With such a low prevalence 2.6% (first round) and 1.2% (second round), false positives will make up a considerable portion of the results. So likely most of the "asymptomatic" carriers were likely simply not even infected.

In fact, depending on the lab technique all of the "asymptomatic" cases could be ascribed to false positives, and not actual infections. That is part of the difficulty in assessing some of this data.

There have been specific labs that have had up to 8% false positive rates, because of bad technique.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on June 30, 2020, 11:26:49 AM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on June 30, 2020, 08:48:42 AM

My lord... last time I looked (a day ago?) at the COVID-19 Dashboard we had 126,000 deaths.  Now we are nearly at 130,000?

Ugh.

Looks like there has been a revision back down to 126,300 as of this typing.  Thank God.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 30, 2020, 11:40:37 AM

Quote from: forgetful on June 30, 2020, 10:51:52 AM

Interesting study, but according to their numbers and methods, they didn't do anything to correct for possible false positives in their testing. With such a low prevalence 2.6% (first round) and 1.2% (second round), false positives will make up a considerable portion of the results. So likely most of the "asymptomatic" carriers were likely simply not even infected.

In fact, depending on the lab technique all of the "asymptomatic" cases could be ascribed to false positives, and not actual infections. That is part of the difficulty in assessing some of this data.

There have been specific labs that have had up to 8% false positive rates, because of bad technique.

Even with that, wouldn't the low end of the asymptomatic high 30's to low 40's. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on June 30, 2020, 01:47:12 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 30, 2020, 11:40:37 AM

Even with that, wouldn't the low end of the asymptomatic high 30's to low 40's.

Maybe I was misreading something in the paper, but I thought they were saying, of the 2.6%/1.2% that tested positive, 40ish% were asymptomatic.

My assertion is that if they have a 1-2% false positive rate in testing, then they would expect 1-2% of tests to come back as a false positive, that is almost the same as their actual prevalence, which suggests that what they are calling "asymptomatic" is in all actuality, just a false positive.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 30, 2020, 01:51:19 PM

Quote from: forgetful on June 30, 2020, 01:47:12 PM

Maybe I was misreading something in the paper, but I thought they were saying, of the 2.6%/1.2% that tested positive, 40ish% were asymptomatic.

My assertion is that if they have a 1-2% false positive rate in testing, then they would expect 1-2% of tests to come back as a false positive, that is almost the same as their actual prevalence, which suggests that what they are calling "asymptomatic" is in all actuality, just a false positive.

That’s why I asked.  I misunderstood your point.  Your math makes sense to me

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on June 30, 2020, 03:51:13 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 30, 2020, 09:10:46 AM

Hey guys, remember when we couldn't go back to shutdown?  Seems like the hard hit states are doing that.

The rest of us won't be far behind.

Odd that a lot of people who don't want to wear masks are the same ones that want everything to be opened up, schools started in the fall, and the economy back to normal.

I'd love to see a poll on the overlap of those people.

At this point, we are watching a slow death.

This is a hysterical and dramatic statement. How many of the states that are experienced “severe” outbreaks truly shut down and flattened the curve on the first wave? Besides California?

How many states that opened up in phases or “followed the science” are being run over by insane hospitalization rates and COVID running amuck?

For someone who is insistent on following the science and data, claiming that Wisconsin, for example, is not far behind places like Texas and Arizona or Florida is asinine.

The leadership at the top sucks. Yes. There are areas of the country where COVID is a severe problem over the last 2 weeks. Yes. There are plenty of stupid people who don’t like wearing masks, sure.  But to ignore the immense progress and control of the virus in huge segments of the country and claim we’re all going to hell in a hand basket cause a few states are having issues, most of which never went through the lengths the rest of the country did, is just Chicken Little disaster prognosticating

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on June 30, 2020, 04:30:35 PM

If masks became universal and not partisan, things would improve.   Also, accept that bars, theaters, stadiums are bad ideas.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 30, 2020, 04:35:48 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on June 30, 2020, 03:51:13 PM

This is a hysterical and dramatic statement. How many of the states that are experienced “severe” outbreaks truly shut down and flattened the curve on the first wave? Besides California?

How many states that opened up in phases or “followed the science” are being run over by insane hospitalization rates and COVID running amuck?

For someone who is insistent on following the science and data, claiming that Wisconsin, for example, is not far behind places like Texas and Arizona or Florida is asinine.

The leadership at the top sucks. Yes. There are areas of the country where COVID is a severe problem over the last 2 weeks. Yes. There are plenty of stupid people who don’t like wearing masks, sure.  But to ignore the immense progress and control of the virus in huge segments of the country and claim we’re all going to hell in a hand basket cause a few states are having issues, most of which never went through the lengths the rest of the country did, is just Chicken Little disaster prognosticating

I assume you are referring to Dr. Fauci when you say “chicken little”. You sound like Rand Paul today saying we just need more optimism.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 30, 2020, 04:36:17 PM

Quote from: tower912 on June 30, 2020, 04:30:35 PM

If masks became universal and not partisan, things would improve.   Also, accept that bars, theaters, stadiums are bad ideas.

Agreed, also we should agree that on the whole we are much better off now than we were 3 months ago

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 30, 2020, 04:45:05 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on June 30, 2020, 03:51:13 PM

This is a hysterical and dramatic statement. How many of the states that are experienced “severe” outbreaks truly shut down and flattened the curve on the first wave? Besides California?

How many states that opened up in phases or “followed the science” are being run over by insane hospitalization rates and COVID running amuck?

For someone who is insistent on following the science and data, claiming that Wisconsin, for example, is not far behind places like Texas and Arizona or Florida is asinine.

The leadership at the top sucks. Yes. There are areas of the country where COVID is a severe problem over the last 2 weeks. Yes. There are plenty of stupid people who don’t like wearing masks, sure.  But to ignore the immense progress and control of the virus in huge segments of the country and claim we’re all going to hell in a hand basket cause a few states are having issues, most of which never went through the lengths the rest of the country did, is just Chicken Little disaster prognosticating

There is nothing hysterical about it.  Cases are increasing, and it is directly related to bars and restaurants.  We're going to lock them down too.  If you don't think that is coming you're blind, bud.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 30, 2020, 05:00:05 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on June 30, 2020, 03:51:13 PM

This is a hysterical and dramatic statement. How many of the states that are experienced “severe” outbreaks truly shut down and flattened the curve on the first wave? Besides California?

How many states that opened up in phases or “followed the science” are being run over by insane hospitalization rates and COVID running amuck?

For someone who is insistent on following the science and data, claiming that Wisconsin, for example, is not far behind places like Texas and Arizona or Florida is asinine.

The leadership at the top sucks. Yes. There are areas of the country where COVID is a severe problem over the last 2 weeks. Yes. There are plenty of stupid people who don’t like wearing masks, sure.  But to ignore the immense progress and control of the virus in huge segments of the country and claim we’re all going to hell in a hand basket cause a few states are having issues, most of which never went through the lengths the rest of the country did, is just Chicken Little disaster prognosticating

The answer to your underlined question is "none," but it is a disappointingly small sample size because only three states (NY, CT and IL) actually "followed the science" required by the CDC's three-phase reopening plan before reopening.

https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/499915-only-three-states-have-met-the-white-houses

As to possible rollbacks...will other states follow suit? Time will tell, but as of today at least 17 states have already rolled back or paused reopening plans, and here in MN the governor is threatening to close bars if they don't do a better job enforcing current guidelines for social distancing. Further, a full 35 states have seen an increase in their 7-day average of documented new cases (with 13 states remaining steady, and only 2 states plus DC decreasing). Most of the increases are not nearly as dramatic as those in TX, FL, AZ and CA, but the trend is not moving in a good direction.

Seventeen states pausing: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/30/covid-cases-states-pausing-reopening-plans-list/3284513001/

MN Governor might close bars: https://www.twincities.com/2020/06/29/with-hundreds-tied-to-coronavirus-outbreaks-from-bars-walz-threatens-harsher-actions/

Thirty-five states seeing increases: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

So what does this mean regarding other states moving back? I would be really surprised if all do it, but if rates continue to climb as we move back from summer into fall, it doesn't seem that far-fetched to imagine that many will. Time will tell.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 30, 2020, 05:04:46 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 30, 2020, 04:36:17 PM

Agreed, also we should agree that on the whole we are much better off now than we were 3 months ago

Absolutely today. 

I think the reason you are hearing a lot of caution/hyperbole (scoopers or doctors or media, pick your source) is that some believe the real test is the fall.  Today's situation puts us in a worse position for that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on June 30, 2020, 05:14:36 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 30, 2020, 05:00:05 PM

The answer to your underlined question is "none," but it is a disappointingly small sample size because only three states (NY, CT and IL) actually "followed the science" required by the CDC's three-phase reopening plan before reopening.

https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/499915-only-three-states-have-met-the-white-houses

As to possible rollbacks...will other states follow suit? Time will tell, but as of today at least 17 states have already rolled back or paused reopening plans, and here in MN the governor is threatening to close bars if they don't do a better job enforcing current guidelines for social distancing. Further, a full 35 states have seen an increase in their 7-day average of documented new cases (with 13 states remaining steady, and only 2 states plus DC decreasing). Most of the increases are not nearly as dramatic as those in TX, FL, AZ and CA, but the trend is not moving in a good direction.

Seventeen states pausing: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/30/covid-cases-states-pausing-reopening-plans-list/3284513001/

MN Governor might close bars: https://www.twincities.com/2020/06/29/with-hundreds-tied-to-coronavirus-outbreaks-from-bars-walz-threatens-harsher-actions/

Thirty-five states seeing increases: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

So what does this mean regarding other states moving back? I would be really surprised if all do it, but if rates continue to climb as we move back from summer into fall, it doesn't seem that far-fetched to imagine that many will. Time will tell.

Thanks for links and measured responses instead of the expected condescending BS.

I guess I look at places like Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, Indiana, Colorado... there are upticks in new cases, but their per capita levels are still low, most if not all have measures in place. It’s not saying “we’ve beat COVID!” but it’s not “this will be Arizona 2.0 in a couple weeks, just you watch”.

Maybe some places close bars again, and that’s fine. But that’s a far cry from a second lockdown coming nationwide. Especially when some of those places didn’t have the levels of medical crisis when flattening the curve the first time around

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 30, 2020, 05:16:46 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on June 30, 2020, 04:36:17 PM

Agreed, also we should agree that on the whole we are much better off now than we were 3 months ago

Are we? The horrific numbers of 3 months ago were driven by 3 states.

You’re a lot more optimistic than I am. I hope you are right and I am wrong.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 30, 2020, 05:27:35 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on June 30, 2020, 05:14:36 PM

I guess I look at places like Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, Indiana, Colorado... there are upticks in new cases, but their per capita levels are still low, most if not all have measures in place. It’s not saying “we’ve beat COVID!” but it’s not “this will be Arizona 2.0 in a couple weeks, just you watch”.

The problem is that the states you mention had strong stay at home orders. That is what kept cases down, but that safety net is no longer in place. A large swath of our population is no longer taking any precautions. That does not portend well for a month from now. A

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on June 30, 2020, 05:49:21 PM

Quote from: Jockey on June 30, 2020, 05:16:46 PM

Are we? The horrific numbers of 3 months ago were driven by 3 states.

You’re a lot more optimistic than I am. I hope you are right and I am wrong.

I'm optimistic today by early data analysis, I'll hold off on the full declaration until Thursday next week.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 30, 2020, 07:02:16 PM

Quote from: Jockey on June 30, 2020, 05:27:35 PM

The problem is that the states you mention had strong stay at home orders. That is what kept cases down, but that safety net is no longer in place. A large swath of our population is no longer taking any precautions. That does not portend well for a month from now. A

Exactly.  I'm certainly not rooting against us, especially because it is financially disastrous on a personal level. 

I'm not sure JWags gets outside the city much.  I have in-laws who still won't take this seriously.  So when it gets to the rural places (and it will with the way that bars are currently operating) we will see more people from those communities getting sick.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on June 30, 2020, 07:21:25 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 30, 2020, 07:02:16 PM

Exactly.  I'm certainly not rooting against us, especially because it is financially disastrous on a personal level. 

I'm not sure JWags gets outside the city much.  I have in-laws who still won't take this seriously.  So when it gets to the rural places (and it will with the way that bars are currently operating) we will see more people from those communities getting sick.

Not sure why you need to continually make snide generalizations about anyone who doesn’t agree with you and surely chalk it up to ignorance, naivety, or some agenda. I’m not in a city and haven’t been in an urban area since I came back to WI from NYC a month ago.

I have relatives all over Wisconsin, my sister is in Dallas and has spent her last 2 weeks in Texarakana with her BF’s family. My other sister is with her BF in central NJ. I have good friends I talk to about this in middle of nowhere Ohio, Florida, Denver, not to mention my associates abroad.  It’s not some head in the sand Pollyanna perspective.

You read trends and development one way, I read it another. I’m willing to bet full shutdowns don’t happen in places where things are steady. Which is what you called for before adjusting to bars and restaurants. But if you want to make cracks about me being a sheltered urbanite, go for it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 30, 2020, 08:02:53 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on June 30, 2020, 07:21:25 PM

Not sure why you need to continually make snide generalizations about anyone who doesn’t agree with you and surely chalk it up to ignorance, naivety, or some agenda. I’m not in a city and haven’t been in an urban area since I came back to WI from NYC a month ago.

I have relatives all over Wisconsin, my sister is in Dallas and has spent her last 2 weeks in Texarakana with her BF’s family. My other sister is with her BF in central NJ. I have good friends I talk to about this in middle of nowhere Ohio, Florida, Denver, not to mention my associates abroad.  It’s not some head in the sand Pollyanna perspective.

You read trends and development one way, I read it another. I’m willing to bet full shutdowns don’t happen in places where things are steady. Which is what you called for before adjusting to bars and restaurants. But if you want to make cracks about me being a sheltered urbanite, go for it.

It was an honest statement.  You said you were locked down in NYC for a long period of time.  How often do you get to the sticks?  And it was equally as snide as calling me 'hysterical''.  Quitcha Bitchin.

I never said full shutdowns were going to happen, so toss that in the trash.  I said we are headed to the same restrictions here in WI that AZ, FL, etc are doing.

You gotta calm down, man.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 30, 2020, 08:46:56 PM

Unfortunately, the casual attitude toward masks is not limited to rural areas or ‘uneducated’ towns.

I live in the shadow of the Mayo Clinic, in a town full of doctors, nurses, researchers, therapists of all kinds, and other educated professionals. Still, I go to the grocery store with my mask, and half the customers are wandering around without them. I understand that many of the people I see may not be healthcare professionals, but they live in a town where they ought to know better.

It really can be disheartening.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 30, 2020, 10:36:45 PM

Very disheartening and it doesn’t portend well for the future.

Very few stores here in SE Wisconsin require masks. And a decent percent of people aren’t wearing them.

I can’t really comment on restaurants as I do not go to any.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on July 01, 2020, 07:22:57 AM

If you aren't wearing a mask.   If you are going to packed bars.   You are part of the problem.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on July 01, 2020, 07:46:48 AM

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/coronavirus/southern-illinois-couple-files-suit-against-idph-board-of-education-over-mask-requirements/2298057/

And then you have idiots like these parents, who think schools should just ignore the coronavirus totally.....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on July 01, 2020, 07:54:07 AM

Quote from: Jockey on June 30, 2020, 10:36:45 PM

Very few stores here in SE Wisconsin require masks. And a decent percent of people aren’t wearing them.

I can’t really comment on restaurants as I do not go to any.

Just a comment on that .. we spent last week in Door County.   All businesses were prepared/masked/plexiglassed.  All restaurants were pickup and if the could invent outdoor seating, they did. 

The first time I went to the grocery, 99% of customers had masks.  We ate outdoors only, and only went into one shop.   The resort closed the indoor pool, the outdoor pool was limited to 7 people which was crazy low but kept the real number to about 10, all spread.

There were two moments where idiots crowded around us closely (outdoors).. but for the most part, we felt pretty safe and found it possible to go about our lives with slight changes to keep our risk low.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 01, 2020, 08:17:15 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on July 01, 2020, 07:54:07 AM

Just a comment on that .. we spent last week in Door County.   All businesses were prepared/masked/plexiglassed.  All restaurants were pickup and if the could invent outdoor seating, they did. 

The first time I went to the grocery, 99% of customers had masks.  We ate outdoors only, and only went into one shop.   The resort closed the indoor pool, the outdoor pool was limited to 7 people which was crazy low but kept the real number to about 10, all spread.

There were two moments where idiots crowded around us closely (outdoors).. but for the most part, we felt pretty safe and found it possible to go about our lives with slight changes to keep our risk low.

Glad to hear that not every summer resort has turned into 'humans gone stupid' amid the pandemic. It has been years, but I have many fond memories of Door County from when my daughters were young.

Just curious - overall, how busy did it seem compared to a typical summer?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on July 01, 2020, 08:45:38 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on July 01, 2020, 08:17:15 AM

Just curious - overall, how busy did it seem compared to a typical summer?

It's tough to estimate .. each week in DC is different.  Our guess was that the roads, shops, restaurants .. were ~20% less crowded.    But .. it's very possible the same volume of people were there, but they were spread out, in parks, in their rooms, not on main street(s). 

Tourism is down everywhere, but DC will likely be better off than most areas.  It's close by and has lots of outdoor things, so an easy audible for travellers.  No doubt, some bars/restaurants will be hit, especially the ones that just don't have outdoor seating // or if weather isn't dry for the others.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 01, 2020, 09:32:34 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on July 01, 2020, 07:54:07 AM

Just a comment on that .. we spent last week in Door County.   All businesses were prepared/masked/plexiglassed.  All restaurants were pickup and if the could invent outdoor seating, they did. 

The first time I went to the grocery, 99% of customers had masks.  We ate outdoors only, and only went into one shop.   The resort closed the indoor pool, the outdoor pool was limited to 7 people which was crazy low but kept the real number to about 10, all spread.

There were two moments where idiots crowded around us closely (outdoors).. but for the most part, we felt pretty safe and found it possible to go about our lives with slight changes to keep our risk low.

I'll echo that DC has been taking this very seriously since at least Memorial day when we were up there.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 01, 2020, 09:37:59 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on July 01, 2020, 09:32:34 AM

I'll echo that DC has been taking this very seriously since at least Memorial day when we were up there.

Outside the Dells, it feels like Northern Wisconsin has taken this seriously?  I would hope so because it’s possible a summer shutdown would be catastrophic for these communities.  My folks went to Mercer this past week and made a stop at Nueske’s in Wittenberg and they only allowed one family member in the store and only if masked.  When I stopped at Sand Valley last weekend, all employees were masked, down to the caddy staff. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on July 01, 2020, 11:44:59 AM

https://www.kxan.com/news/coronavirus/no-thank-you-dr-fauci-lt-gov-patrick-says-he-wont-listen-to-nations-top-covid-19-expert/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 01, 2020, 11:47:09 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on July 01, 2020, 11:44:59 AM

https://www.kxan.com/news/coronavirus/no-thank-you-dr-fauci-lt-gov-patrick-says-he-wont-listen-to-nations-top-covid-19-expert/

Yeah I mean this is what their new strategy is right?  Blame Fauci.  Blame China.  Blame...whoever.  Just don't blame the guy in charge.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 01, 2020, 01:11:38 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 01, 2020, 11:47:09 AM

Yeah I mean this is what their new strategy is right?  Blame Fauci.  Blame China.  Blame...whoever.  Just don't blame the guy in charge.

Blaming, denying, ignoring or openly defying the experts. An unfortunate 'new normal' for many.

Attitudes like that make me fear that we will be the last country in the developed world to get past this....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 01, 2020, 01:17:23 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 30, 2020, 04:45:05 PM

There is nothing hysterical about it.  Cases are increasing, and it is directly related to bars and restaurants.  We're going to lock them down too.  If you don't think that is coming you're blind, bud.

https://www.channel3000.com/dane-county-issues-new-order-limiting-gatherings-bar-restaurant-activity/

Boy, that was fast.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 01, 2020, 02:00:05 PM

Worrisome details noted in kids with COVID inflammatory syndrome

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/06/worrisome-details-noted-kids-covid-inflammatory-syndrome

The number of kids who get this condition is not high, but the consequences are significant, with 80% requiring intensive care. In the studies cited, 73% of the affected kids had been previously healthy...so it probably won't be possible to identify 'high risk' individuals before school begins.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 01, 2020, 02:28:27 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 01, 2020, 11:47:09 AM

Yeah I mean this is what their new strategy is right?  Blame Fauci.  Blame China.  Blame...whoever.  Just don't blame the guy in charge.

He does it because his people believe every word he says. Science is heresy and anti- God to them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 01, 2020, 03:19:31 PM

More testing problems/delays. 

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/06/us-coronavirus-testing-could-fail-again/613675/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/06/us-coronavirus-testing-could-fail-again/613675/)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 01, 2020, 03:39:50 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 01, 2020, 03:19:31 PM

More testing problems/delays. 

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/06/us-coronavirus-testing-could-fail-again/613675/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/06/us-coronavirus-testing-could-fail-again/613675/)

What an embarrassment.

Quote

“This is very bad,” Michael Mina, an epidemiology professor at Harvard, told us. Rapid test-turnaround times are the only way to control the coronavirus without forcing every potentially contagious person—everyone who’s had contact with someone diagnosed with COVID-19—into quarantine, he said: “Our modeling efforts more or less show that if you don’t get results back in a day or so, outbreaks really can’t be stopped without isolating and quarantining all contacts preemptively.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 01, 2020, 04:09:03 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 01, 2020, 03:19:31 PM

More testing problems/delays. 

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/06/us-coronavirus-testing-could-fail-again/613675/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/06/us-coronavirus-testing-could-fail-again/613675/)

Let’s not pretend to be surprised. This is very consistent with our federal government’s reaction from Day 1.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 01, 2020, 04:51:31 PM

It's OK folks, the President *still* says it will just go away.

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1278413075327021056

Trump: "I think we're going to be very good with the coronavirus. I think that, at some point, that's going to sort of just disappear, I hope."
Fox: "You still believe so, disappear?"
Trump: "Well, I do."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on July 01, 2020, 05:25:00 PM

Alabama:

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1278430344392388611?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 01, 2020, 05:44:26 PM

I know the focus of many has been almost exclusively on deaths, but we should not lose sight of the fact that "recovery" does not necessarily mean people are 'healthy' again...

Here’s What Recovery From Covid-19 May Look Like for Many Survivors

Continuing shortness of breath, muscle weakness, flashbacks, mental fogginess and other symptoms may plague patients for a long time.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/01/health/coronavirus-recovery-survivors.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on July 01, 2020, 06:43:31 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on July 01, 2020, 05:44:26 PM

I know the focus of many has been almost exclusively on deaths, but we should not lose sight of the fact that "recovery" does not necessarily mean people are 'healthy' again...

Here’s What Recovery From Covid-19 May Look Like for Many Survivors

Continuing shortness of breath, muscle weakness, flashbacks, mental fogginess and other symptoms may plague patients for a long time.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/01/health/coronavirus-recovery-survivors.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

Also, lasting lung damage in asymptomatic patients.

https://www.azfamily.com/news/continuing_coverage/coronavirus_coverage/new-arizona-concern-study-shows-asymptomatic-covid-patients-could-have-long-term-lung-damage/article_64903642-bb36-11ea-b48c-efd576ab9ba1.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on July 01, 2020, 07:49:39 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on July 01, 2020, 04:51:31 PM

It's OK folks, the President *still* says it will just go away.

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1278413075327021056

Trump: "I think we're going to be very good with the coronavirus. I think that, at some point, that's going to sort of just disappear, I hope."
Fox: "You still believe so, disappear?"
Trump: "Well, I do."

Honestly this SHOULD be the biggest runaway presidential election in the history of the US, and that’s with Biden not even being a great candidate. Sadly it is going to be a very, very tight race, and may come down to how well Republicans are able to suppress the vote (‘Merica!).

Covid was always going to hit the USA. Deaths were always going to come, the economy was always going to tank. But there will be hundreds of thousands of lives needlessly lost to it and an economy like nobody alive has ever seen in the USA if Trump is re-elected. While other countries are responsibly reopening their economy, we are having foreign boarders shut down to us. I guess this is America being great. Very scary.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 01, 2020, 08:00:50 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on July 01, 2020, 04:51:31 PM

It's OK folks, the President *still* says it will just go away.

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1278413075327021056

Trump: "I think we're going to be very good with the coronavirus. I think that, at some point, that's going to sort of just disappear, I hope."
Fox: "You still believe so, disappear?"
Trump: "Well, I do."

He said it in March, April, May, June, and July.

Maybe he lives by the “even a blind squirrel is right twice a day” axiom.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on July 01, 2020, 09:09:41 PM

Quote from: forgetful on July 01, 2020, 06:43:31 PM

Also, lasting lung damage in asymptomatic patients.

https://www.azfamily.com/news/continuing_coverage/coronavirus_coverage/new-arizona-concern-study-shows-asymptomatic-covid-patients-could-have-long-term-lung-damage/article_64903642-bb36-11ea-b48c-efd576ab9ba1.html

Seems overly nitpicky but if they are experiencing lung damage they aren't asymptomatic right?

Reminds me of Robin William's stand up on the alestro additives to make non-fat chips "it said anal leakage my be a side effect, I'm sorry but if my anus is leaking that is very much an effect"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on July 01, 2020, 10:23:35 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on July 01, 2020, 09:09:41 PM

Seems overly nitpicky but if they are experiencing lung damage they aren't asymptomatic right?

Reminds me of Robin William's stand up on the alestro additives to make non-fat chips "it said anal leakage my be a side effect, I'm sorry but if my anus is leaking that is very much an effect"

That is part of the point. Those that we are saying "have no symptoms" upon examination have significant lung damage that will impact their lives for a while.

I had walking pneumonia once, only realized something was wrong when I went for a hard/long run and struggled with it. Turned out I had "textbook pneumonia," I didn't even realize I was ill. That is what is happening in some of these "asymptomatic instances". They have significant effects, just don't realize it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 01, 2020, 10:25:39 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on July 01, 2020, 09:09:41 PM

Seems overly nitpicky but if they are experiencing lung damage they aren't asymptomatic right?

Reminds me of Robin William's stand up on the alestro additives to make non-fat chips "it said anal leakage my be a side effect, I'm sorry but if my anus is leaking that is very much an effect"

Actually, they may be asymptomatic.

Technically, a “symptom“ is a subjective experience or sensation that a patient can feel and tell you about. Examples are shortness of breath, pain and the like. On the other hand, a “sign“ is an objective finding that can be detected in a test or seen in a scan, but may or may not cause any abnormal sensations in the patient. Examples might be high blood pressure or a an abnormality seen in an x-ray.

In this case, it appears that the individuals are showing the sign of lung damage, even though they may not be experiencing a symptom like shortness of breath. This is because most young people have significant excess lung capacity. If this is persistent, it could make the individual more susceptible to breathing issues later in life.

In other words, this finding might not be immediately relevant to (or perceived by) the patient today, but it could have significant long-term consequences.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on July 01, 2020, 10:34:26 PM

Huh, ya learn something new every day. Thanks folks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 01, 2020, 11:18:58 PM

Cases no longer trending upward - they are exploding upward.

New cases up over 80% from a couple weeks ago.

45 states are trending upward.

As I said (yesterday, I believe), the worst is yet to come.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 02, 2020, 07:46:27 AM

Quote from: forgetful on July 01, 2020, 10:23:35 PM

That is part of the point. Those that we are saying "have no symptoms" upon examination have significant lung damage that will impact their lives for a while.

I had walking pneumonia once, only realized something was wrong when I went for a hard/long run and struggled with it. Turned out I had "textbook pneumonia," I didn't even realize I was ill. That is what is happening in some of these "asymptomatic instances". They have significant effects, just don't realize it.

That's awful.  At least two of my employees have gone through the same thing.  They just thought it was a normal cold... then it didn't go away for 2 months.  Eventually, they went to the doctor and found out the same thing.  Some antibiotics and a little time, and they got through it.

Our culture of working through illnesses should change.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 02, 2020, 08:36:18 AM

Yet another confirmation of the undercount

U.S. COVID-19 death toll may be 28 percent higher than officially thought
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/u-s-covid-19-death-toll-may-be-28-percent-higher-than-officially-thought/ar-BB16fwpk?ocid=spartan-dhp-feeds

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on July 02, 2020, 08:46:21 AM

The crucial word there is 'may'.    Having read the article,  'X' more number of people died in 'X' time span compared to the year before.    100k of those are directly attributable to COVID.    The authors of the article are willing to make the leap that the other (X - 100k)  MAY be attributable to COVID, leading to a theoretical 28% undercount.     


 While I admit the possibility, I am not willing to declare it a fact.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 02, 2020, 09:07:13 AM

If I recall correctly, In a stat news version of that article the researcher actually called out increases in cardiac arrest due deferred medical care as one causal in addition to Covid. 

My opinion counting is impossible/hard and we are certainly not overcounting. No one is. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on July 02, 2020, 09:43:45 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on July 01, 2020, 10:25:39 PM

Actually, they may be asymptomatic.

Technically, a “symptom“ is a subjective experience or sensation that a patient can feel and tell you about. Examples are shortness of breath, pain and the like. On the other hand, a “sign“ is an objective finding that can be detected in a test or seen in a scan, but may or may not cause any abnormal sensations in the patient. Examples might be high blood pressure or a an abnormality seen in an x-ray.

In this case, it appears that the individuals are showing the sign of lung damage, even though they may not be experiencing a symptom like shortness of breath. This is because most young people have significant excess lung capacity. If this is persistent, it could make the individual more susceptible to breathing issues later in life.

In other words, this finding might not be immediately relevant to (or perceived by) the patient today, but it could have significant long-term consequences.

Great summary/translation of the difference in terms.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 02, 2020, 10:54:09 AM

Quote from: tower912 on July 02, 2020, 08:46:21 AM

The crucial word there is 'may'.    Having read the article,  'X' more number of people died in 'X' time span compared to the year before.    100k of those are directly attributable to COVID.    The authors of the article are willing to make the leap that the other (X - 100k)  MAY be attributable to COVID, leading to a theoretical 28% undercount.     


 While I admit the possibility, I am not willing to declare it a fact.

There have been at least a half a dozen studies finding essentially the same thing. They do all appear to use the same methodology, I'll admit, that being looking at excess death figures. But unless there is something *other* than COVID causing the deaths, which I don't think I've seen claimed anywhere, then it seems highly, highly likely that the excess deaths are COVID driven.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on July 02, 2020, 11:08:37 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on July 02, 2020, 10:54:09 AM

it seems highly, highly likely that the excess deaths are COVID driven.

Correct - the real formula is going to be (Covid Deaths + (Exces deaths +/- excess margin of error))

# of deaths per year isn't some static number.  We'll never know how many there would have been this year without Covid.  However (in the US anyway), there aren't usually giant differences in deaths per year.  However, the US death rate has been generally increasing about 1.1-1.2% each year (probably due to the age of boomers).

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/death-rate

So the excess *could* be a negative number (thus increasing covid deaths more than excess), but more than likely, death rate this year would have been around 8.880/1000 so the increase form there is roughly covid related.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: SERocks on July 02, 2020, 11:10:30 AM

Darwin at work.

https://nypost.com/2020/07/02/alabama-students-gamble-on-who-gets-sick-at-covid-19-parties/?utm_source=NYPTwitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_medium=SocialFlow

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 02, 2020, 11:17:59 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on July 02, 2020, 11:08:37 AM

Correct - the real formula is going to be (Covid Deaths + (Exces deaths +/- excess margin of error))

# of deaths per year isn't some static number.  We'll never know how many there would have been this year without Covid.  However (in the US anyway), there aren't usually giant differences in deaths per year.  However, the US death rate has been generally increasing about 1.1-1.2% each year (probably due to the age of boomers).

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/death-rate

So the excess *could* be a negative number (thus increasing covid deaths more than excess), but more than likely, death rate this year would have been around 8.880/1000 so the increase form there is roughly covid related.

The trouble will be when we start counting cancer, heart disease, etc. deaths as covid deaths because people didn't go to the doctor to treat those problems.  They're obviously covid RELATED deaths, but how they are counted will be a hot button issue in the months and years ahead.

And it will be politicized.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 02, 2020, 11:18:28 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on May 12, 2020, 06:14:25 PM

I had an interesting talk today with the CEO of a health care company that I work with who happens to also be an epidemiologist with expertise in public health. He was ringing the alarm bells early and loudly on this in January.  Interestingly, he is pretty sanguine about a potential 2nd wave.

His reasoning is that after this initial wave, people are going to be more diligent and "do the right" around social distancing, hygiene, etc. He comes at this view from a math, science, and reasoning perspective. I wish I could say I agree with him, but I think he is overlooking human behavior. You have people that are suffering economic hardship who are going to say "F it" and take their chances, and then you have a whole swath of people of the Freedumb movement who have been egged on not to take precautions. I'm afraid that even if the latter are a minority, it is more than enough to spread a 2nd wave.

I hope the Dr. is right and I am wrong.

It would probably be impolite to say, "I told you so."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on July 02, 2020, 11:54:16 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on July 02, 2020, 11:18:28 AM

It would probably be impolite to say, "I told you so."

Are we counting places like Texas or Florida or Arizona as a second wave? I would argue the vast majority of spikes and increased cases are in places that never got out of the first wave.  And places that have some increases whether it be Colorado or Wisconsin or Ohio or India, etc...while not great, aren't in full on second wave yet, given other metrics there.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 02, 2020, 11:57:36 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on July 02, 2020, 11:54:16 AM

Are we counting places like Texas or Florida or Arizona as a second wave? I would argue the vast majority of spikes and increased cases are in places that never got out of the first wave.  And places that have some increases whether it be Colorado or Wisconsin or Ohio or India, etc...while not great, aren't in full on second wave yet, given other metrics there.

I won't disagree that we never really got out of the first wave

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on July 02, 2020, 12:53:57 PM

Herman Cain attended Trump's recent Tulsa rally. Herman Cain is now in an Atlanta hospital receiving treatment for COVID-19.


https://twitter.com/wsteaks/status/1278740414535737344?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 02, 2020, 12:54:43 PM

Herman Cain (the real one) hospitalized with COVID-19.

Guess where he was a couple of weeks ago, without a mask? The "rally" in Tulsa.
https://www.westernjournal.com/herman-cain-tulsa-trump-rally-crowd-huge-enthusiastic/

EDIT: Sorry, dupe
 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 02, 2020, 01:23:23 PM

Quote from: Jockey on July 01, 2020, 08:00:50 PM

He said it in March, April, May, June, and July.

Maybe he lives by the “even a blind squirrel is right twice a day” axiom.

I almost forgot - he said it in February as well. On the same exact day that he ignored the daily briefing about Russia paying bounties on US soldiers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 02, 2020, 01:24:42 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on July 02, 2020, 12:54:43 PM

Herman Cain (the real one) hospitalized with COVID-19.

Guess where he was a couple of weeks ago, without a mask? The "rally" in Tulsa.
https://www.westernjournal.com/herman-cain-tulsa-trump-rally-crowd-huge-enthusiastic/

EDIT: Sorry, dupe

So, if he dies, do we count it as Covid or suicide?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 02, 2020, 01:30:27 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on July 02, 2020, 11:54:16 AM

Are we counting places like Texas or Florida or Arizona as a second wave? I would argue the vast majority of spikes and increased cases are in places that never got out of the first wave.  And places that have some increases whether it be Colorado or Wisconsin or Ohio or India, etc...while not great, aren't in full on second wave yet, given other metrics there.

Agreed - we are still experiencing a slow-motion first wave. The consensus among the epidemiologists and public health officials I've heard is that we slowed the first wave down a bit with the closures, but we didn't maintain them long enough to get past it.

If I had to guess, the only places that might officially be able to say they got through the first wave might be the NYC/NJ/CT area, and possibly the Seattle area.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on July 02, 2020, 03:44:31 PM

Texas just issued a mask order.
Wonder how effective it will be when you have a lieutenant governor who refuses.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 02, 2020, 04:13:19 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on July 02, 2020, 03:44:31 PM

Texas just issued a mask order.
Wonder how effective it will be when you have a lieutenant governor who refuses.

Certainly better than no order, but I won't be surprised if compliance is less than enthusiastic. Texans are 'independent-minded' enough, but the openly defiant comments of the LG will likely embolden them to push the envelope even more...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 02, 2020, 04:55:29 PM

The emerging testing debacle does not bode well for our preparation for the fall.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 02, 2020, 06:49:21 PM

Are you referring to whether people should be injected with coronavirus to test new vaccines?

Or trump’s nonsense to stop testing?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 02, 2020, 07:22:44 PM

Quote from: Jockey on July 02, 2020, 06:49:21 PM

Are you referring to whether people should be injected with coronavirus to test new vaccines?

Or trump’s nonsense to stop testing?

Neither.  There are issues again with running tests and having enough supplies.  It is increasing the lead time from test to results to over 5 days in areas/labs.  Which isn’t good if we want to get our arms around things. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 02, 2020, 08:22:28 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 02, 2020, 07:22:44 PM

Neither.  There are issues again with running tests and having enough supplies.  It is increasing the lead time from test to results to over 5 days in areas/labs.  Which isn’t good if we want to get our arms around things.

Yep. How NOT to beat a pandemic: ignore science so the healthcare care system gets overwhelmed

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/quest-labcorp-warn-coronavirus-testing-delays-demand-surges/story?id=71555595

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 02, 2020, 11:21:13 PM

Testing shortages. PPE shortages.

Is is April again?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 03, 2020, 08:20:02 PM

The idiot governors in SD promises there will be no social distancing at trump Mt. Rushmore gig.

Just one large mass of idiots.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on July 03, 2020, 08:20:57 PM

Quote from: Jockey on July 02, 2020, 01:24:42 PM

So, if he dies, do we count it as Covid or suicide?

  what the...are you serious??  what's the matter with you!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on July 03, 2020, 08:22:36 PM

Quote from: Jockey on July 03, 2020, 08:20:02 PM

The idiot governors in SD promises there will be no social distancing at trump Mt. Rushmore gig.

Just one large mass of idiots.

and the rioting anarchists are brainiac scholars?  look in a mirror

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 04, 2020, 12:44:11 AM

Oddly enough, I don't think rocket is off base here.

make a note of it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 04, 2020, 08:22:29 AM

Kimberly Guilfoyle, Top Fund-Raising Official for Trump Campaign, Tests Positive for Coronavirus

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/03/us/politics/kimberly-guilfoyle-trump-campaign-coronavirus.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

Kimberly Guilfoyle, the girlfriend of President Trump’s eldest son and a top fund-raising official for the Trump re-election campaign, tested positive for the coronavirus on Friday before a Fourth of July event at Mount Rushmore, a person familiar with her condition said.

------------

And regrettably, no - I have no illusions that this will change POTUS' behavior.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 04, 2020, 04:13:19 PM

Not that there is a shortage of COVID dashboards and maps...but this is a new one (released July 1) from the Harvard Global Health Institute. It does a nice job of comparing areas by a single, standardized metric (7-day moving average of new cases per 100,000 residents), and translating that data into color-coded risk levels (red > orange > yellow > green). It also allows you to toggle between county- and state-level numbers.

As you would suspect, most of the 'red' counties are in FL, TX, AZ, SC and such, and most of the northeast and upper midwest is yellow with smatterings of green and orange.

https://globalepidemics.org/key-metrics-for-covid-suppression/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on July 04, 2020, 09:20:22 PM

I saw that Formula 1 tested over 4000 people and got no positive tests. It’s not meant to be a pissing match point about Europe handling vs the US, I just thought it was amazing given the pure number of personnel from the teams and operations tested

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on July 04, 2020, 09:57:09 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on July 03, 2020, 08:22:36 PM

and the rioting anarchists are brainiac scholars?  look in a mirror

They’re not looters, rocket. They’re undocumented shoppers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on July 04, 2020, 10:51:52 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on July 04, 2020, 09:57:09 PM

They’re not looters, rocket. They’re undocumented shoppers.

I loved this one Lenny, ...mostly a protest, but not generally speaking unruly??  How many fires were there including the 3rd precinct??  Licker stores being emptied, businesses torched, cop cars burning rocks being thrown...but they were wearing masks

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/05/28/msnbcs_ali_velshi_downplays_riot_in_front_of_burning_building_mostly_a_protest_not_generally_speaking_unruly.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 05, 2020, 06:13:58 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on July 04, 2020, 09:57:09 PM

They’re not looters, rocket. They’re undocumented shoppers.

Please keep all this stuff including the editorials that started this to some other thread. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 05, 2020, 08:28:57 AM

There is a lot in this article. Primary aerosols but secondarily WHO processes and messaging.  I though the aerosol debate is interesting.   

Anecdotally Scoopers dentist practices and hair salons seem to be ok with ridged masking.  Bars, choirs, Zumba classes have all been super spreader events.

Obviously points to masking but curious if HVAC filter or UV retrofits will be an economic winner with this emerging evidence.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/04/health/239-experts-with-1-big-claim-the-coronavirus-is-airborne.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/04/health/239-experts-with-1-big-claim-the-coronavirus-is-airborne.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on July 05, 2020, 08:44:22 AM

Something that always stuck with me .. a radio interview with an epidemiologist who'd written books on pandemics / an expert. 

"Should people wash their hands?"

"Well, we need to give people something to do.  It won't hurt."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 05, 2020, 08:58:12 AM

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/07/it-okay-go-beach/613849/

The upshot.  The beach is actually a pretty safe place to be.  And closing them down actually may promote less healthy behaviors and ways to socialize.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 05, 2020, 03:13:29 PM

Wonder why people don't wear masks? It comes from the top.

Trump has repeatedly sought to minimize the jump in confirmed cases and claimed without evidence in a July 4th speech that 99% of cases in the United States were “totally harmless.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on July 05, 2020, 04:19:19 PM

The possibility that the Virus did not start in China

https://www.yahoo.com/news/covid-19-may-not-originated-143843488.html?soc_src=community&soc_trk=tw

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 05, 2020, 04:34:56 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 05, 2020, 08:58:12 AM

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/07/it-okay-go-beach/613849/

The upshot.  The beach is actually a pretty safe place to be.  And closing them down actually may promote less healthy behaviors and ways to socialize.

This looks totally safe.  ::)
https://www.inquirer.com/news/coronavirus-new-jersey-beaches-wildwood-ocean-city-sea-isle-masks-boardwalk-bars-phil-murphy-20200703.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 05, 2020, 04:59:11 PM

On CBS' Face The Nation, host Margaret Brennan started off by informing viewers that (despite soaring new caseloads), the Trump administration has been blocking interview requests with key government exports for three months.

"We have not been able to get our requests for Dr. Fauci approved by the Trump administration in the last three months. And the CDC not at all," reported Brennan

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 05, 2020, 05:45:28 PM

https://7news.com.au/travel/coronavirus/coronavirus-is-airborne-say-239-scientists-in-a-letter-to-who-c-1145825

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 05, 2020, 07:43:54 PM

Some actual science pointing to indoor ac driven spread. 

Of course coupled with the aerosol push this weekend it is probably not shocking.

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/06/air-conditioning-may-be-factor-in-covid-19-spread-in-the-south/ (https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/06/air-conditioning-may-be-factor-in-covid-19-spread-in-the-south/)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on July 05, 2020, 09:08:56 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 05, 2020, 07:43:54 PM

Some actual science pointing to indoor ac driven spread. 

Of course coupled with the aerosol push this weekend it is probably not shocking.

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/06/air-conditioning-may-be-factor-in-covid-19-spread-in-the-south/ (https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/06/air-conditioning-may-be-factor-in-covid-19-spread-in-the-south/)

Every school in the country starting at the lowest level up through college should have these lights installed for the fall.  Especially if like the article said they are not very expensive.

If I were a bar owner that would be a no brianer as well.  Even if it helps a little.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 05, 2020, 09:34:29 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 05, 2020, 07:43:54 PM

Some actual science pointing to indoor ac driven spread. 

Of course coupled with the aerosol push this weekend it is probably not shocking.

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/06/air-conditioning-may-be-factor-in-covid-19-spread-in-the-south/ (https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/06/air-conditioning-may-be-factor-in-covid-19-spread-in-the-south/)

Could be, but the report says “The states that, in June, are already using a lot of air conditioning because of high temperatures are also the places where there’s been greater increases in spread of COVID-19, suggesting more time indoors as temperatures rise”.

But, those are also states that opened early with almost no restrictions.

So, it's hard to say which contributed more to the spread. But, even if it is the case, the problem is that the AC can't be turned off. They must still use masks and social distancing if they are going to stop the spread. Their record on that isn't impressive.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on July 05, 2020, 10:46:39 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on July 05, 2020, 09:08:56 PM

Every school in the country starting at the lowest level up through college should have these lights installed for the fall.

I've had a UV-C light on my furnace for the last ~8 years.  It was $100 on Amazon and took 10 minutes to install.

It's silly not to have one.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 06, 2020, 05:24:58 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 05, 2020, 07:43:54 PM

Some actual science pointing to indoor ac driven spread. 

Of course coupled with the aerosol push this weekend it is probably not shocking.

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/06/air-conditioning-may-be-factor-in-covid-19-spread-in-the-south/ (https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/06/air-conditioning-may-be-factor-in-covid-19-spread-in-the-south/)

The Atlantic has a story on this also, however I have not read yet.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 06, 2020, 12:10:47 PM

Just for the sake of something completely crazy to talk about that won't get political................

This is an old story, but I don't recall being discussed over the last 3 months. 

---

A late psychic once wrote that a severe pneumonia-like pandemic would happen in 2020. Now her 2008 Doomsday book has charted on Amazon.
https://www.insider.com/late-psychic-predicted-severe-illness-would-spread-globe-in-2020-2020-3


Did psychic Sylvia Browne predict the coronavirus 12 years ago?
https://www.silive.com/coronavirus/2020/03/did-psychic-sylvia-browne-predict-the-coronavirus-12-years-ago.html


Her prediction says it will mysteriously disappear at the end of 2020 and return again in 2030.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 06, 2020, 12:16:50 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 06, 2020, 12:10:47 PM

Just for the sake of something completely crazy to talk about that won't get political................


Her prediction says it will mysteriously magically disappear at the end of 2020 and return again in 2030.

Maybe this is where he is getting his info  ;D

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 06, 2020, 01:35:20 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 06, 2020, 12:10:47 PM

Just for the sake of something completely crazy to talk about that won't get political................

This is an old story, but I don't recall being discussed over the last 3 months. 

---

A late psychic once wrote that a severe pneumonia-like pandemic would happen in 2020. Now her 2008 Doomsday book has charted on Amazon.
https://www.insider.com/late-psychic-predicted-severe-illness-would-spread-globe-in-2020-2020-3


Did psychic Sylvia Browne predict the coronavirus 12 years ago?
https://www.silive.com/coronavirus/2020/03/did-psychic-sylvia-browne-predict-the-coronavirus-12-years-ago.html


Her prediction says it will mysteriously disappear at the end of 2020 and return again in 2030.

I think Nostradamus predicted Covid as well.  ::)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 06, 2020, 02:34:50 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 06, 2020, 12:16:50 PM

Maybe this is where he is getting his info  ;D

I was completely thinking that, but was trying not to step there....................

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: buckchuckler on July 06, 2020, 02:42:59 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 06, 2020, 12:10:47 PM

Just for the sake of something completely crazy to talk about that won't get political................

First comment to follow this is, of course, political. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 06, 2020, 02:55:18 PM

Quote from: buckchuckler on July 06, 2020, 02:42:59 PM

First comment to follow this is, of course, political.

Frenn’s tends to not be political much on the board.

Not to mention that it was obviously a joke.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 06, 2020, 03:00:40 PM

Quote from: Jockey on July 06, 2020, 02:55:18 PM

Frenn’s tends to not be political much on the board.

Not to mention that it was obviously a joke.

Yes it was a joke.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on July 06, 2020, 03:04:27 PM

The New York Times sues (yes they had to sue the CDC to get the info) the CDC in order to obtain data and information showing that Blacks and Latinos are three times more likely to contract COVID-19 than White people:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/07/05/us/coronavirus-latinos-african-americans-cdc-data.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytimes

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on July 06, 2020, 03:22:53 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on July 05, 2020, 09:08:56 PM

Every school in the country starting at the lowest level up through college should have these lights installed for the fall. 

Schools have air conditioning? God, I’m old.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on July 06, 2020, 03:33:21 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on July 06, 2020, 03:22:53 PM

Schools have air conditioning? God, I’m old.

Indoor plumbing, too. ;)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 06, 2020, 03:39:07 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on July 06, 2020, 03:22:53 PM

Schools have air conditioning? God, I’m old.

Not all.
My wife's high school is fairly new and there is only AC in the offices and Library.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HouWarrior on July 06, 2020, 03:56:53 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 06, 2020, 03:39:07 PM

Not all.
My wife's high school is fairly new and there is only AC in the offices and Library.

Cradle robber.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 06, 2020, 04:57:46 PM

Quote from: houwarrior on July 06, 2020, 03:56:53 PM

Cradle robber.

The MU Fan in "Connecticut" is obviously meant to throw us off. More likely Arkansas or Mississippi.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 06, 2020, 07:15:40 PM

You know, since the state is doing so well flattening the curve.

Florida orders schools to reopen in August

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20200706/state-orders-schools-to-reopen-in-august


“All school boards and charter school governing boards must open brick and mortar schools in August at least five days per week for all students,” the announcement states.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 06, 2020, 07:16:06 PM

Quote from: Jockey on July 06, 2020, 04:57:46 PM

The MU Fan in "Connecticut" is obviously meant to throw us off. More likely Arkansas or Mississippi.

She's a teacher obviously. 
But I respect the MUScoop snark.  😎

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 06, 2020, 08:34:19 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 06, 2020, 07:16:06 PM

She's a teacher obviously. 
But I respect the MUScoop snark.  😎

Snark is what Scoop does best.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on July 06, 2020, 09:33:52 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on July 06, 2020, 03:33:21 PM

Indoor plumbing, too. ;)

OMG. You could have knocked me over with a feather!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 06, 2020, 09:50:50 PM

Keep it spreading.

Florida Education Commissioner Richard Corcoran issued an emergency order Monday, requiring all state schools to open in the fall.

Can Texas be far behind.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 06, 2020, 09:55:04 PM

Exactly 4 months ago to the day, we were told that "anyone who wants a test can get a test". It wasn't true then and it isn't true now.

With the official POTUS policy now appearing to be "live with it", can we ever expect that to change?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on July 06, 2020, 11:54:14 PM

Quote

Quote from: JWags85 on June 10, 2020, 11:46:42 PM

saying we’ll have another 100K during summer months seems like alarmist nonsense.

Even with lots of folks being careful, in the past 10 days or so we're averaging around 800-900 deaths per day.  No unreasonable that that keeps up for another 90 days...

(please check my numbers.  I see US deaths @ ~103k on May 31, and at ~112k on Jun 10.  10 day average ~900)

Circling back to this.  It's apparent covid-19 isn't taking the summer off.  Death rates have fallen from their ~900/day to around ~600/day, but look to be increasing again.  I don't see a way the US escapes summer without 200k deaths unfortunately.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-confirmed-daily-deaths-epidemiological-trajectory?country=~USA

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 07, 2020, 07:31:31 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on July 06, 2020, 11:54:14 PM

Even with lots of folks being careful, in the past 10 days or so we're averaging around 800-900 deaths per day.  No unreasonable that that keeps up for another 90 days...

(please check my numbers.  I see US deaths @ ~103k on May 31, and at ~112k on Jun 10.  10 day average ~900)

Circling back to this.  It's apparent covid-19 isn't taking the summer off.  Death rates have fallen from their ~900/day to around ~600/day, but look to be increasing again.  I don't see a way the US escapes summer without 200k deaths unfortunately.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-confirmed-daily-deaths-epidemiological-trajectory?country=~USA

I'm not sure deaths are going to jump up like positives and hospitalizations are.  The jump in the former seem to be younger individuals who are better able to handle the disease without dying, and we have gotten better at treatment.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on July 07, 2020, 09:48:50 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on July 06, 2020, 11:54:14 PM

Even with lots of folks being careful, in the past 10 days or so we're averaging around 800-900 deaths per day.  No unreasonable that that keeps up for another 90 days...

(please check my numbers.  I see US deaths @ ~103k on May 31, and at ~112k on Jun 10.  10 day average ~900)

Circling back to this.  It's apparent covid-19 isn't taking the summer off.  Death rates have fallen from their ~900/day to around ~600/day, but look to be increasing again.  I don't see a way the US escapes summer without 200k deaths unfortunately.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-confirmed-daily-deaths-epidemiological-trajectory?country=~USA

Where are deaths increasing again? see a pretty consistent pattern going down here

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 07, 2020, 10:33:44 AM

I'm beginning to think that this fall is going to be a disaster.  People in the north are going to be moving back indoors, and I think we are going to see numerous outbreaks tied to schools and higher education institutions.  And we are really doing nothing to prevent it. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on July 07, 2020, 10:53:54 AM

Quote from: injuryBug on July 07, 2020, 09:48:50 AM

Where are deaths increasing again? see a pretty consistent pattern going down here

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Sorry, I wasn't being clear.  Part of my sentiment was the contents of a phone call yesterday (told to me 2nd hand) with health care executives around the country along with CDC/Public Health.  The CDC was basically saying deaths are projected to rise in the next 2 weeks, and healthcare folks from Florida, Arizona and Texas were basically 1) yelling at them asking why the concern isn't being broadcast nationwide and 2) That their hospitals are pretty full and deaths are increasing.

So, I agree, the charts look decent right now.  Sadly, I think you'll see deaths increasing in the next month.

edit:  And to back that up, clicking on FL, AZ, TX in the link you shared, scrolling down to the bottom and using 7-day avg deaths, pretty clear it's increasing in those places:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/florida/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/arizona/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/texas/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 07, 2020, 10:54:26 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 07, 2020, 10:33:44 AM

I'm beginning to think that this fall is going to be a disaster.  People in the north are going to be moving back indoors, and I think we are going to see numerous outbreaks tied to schools and higher education institutions.  And we are really doing nothing to prevent it.

Masks are mocked. Testing is still unavailable to many, there are still shortages of PPE, White House policy is now “live with it”. Schools are being ordered open in hot spots for Covid. We’re being told that Covid is 99% harmless.

Yeah, There’s a slight chance Fall could get bad.  :-[

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 07, 2020, 11:09:27 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on July 07, 2020, 10:53:54 AM

Sorry, I wasn't being clear.  Part of my sentiment was the contents of a phone call yesterday (told to me 2nd hand) with health care executives around the country along with CDC/Public Health.  The CDC was basically saying deaths are projected to rise in the next 2 weeks, and healthcare folks from Florida, Arizona and Texas were basically 1) yelling at them asking why the concern isn't being broadcast nationwide and 2) That their hospitals are pretty full and deaths are increasing.

So, I agree, the charts look decent right now.  Sadly, I think you'll see deaths increasing in the next month.

edit:  And to back that up, clicking on FL, AZ, TX in the link you shared, scrolling down to the bottom and using 7-day avg deaths, pretty clear it's increasing in those places:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/florida/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/arizona/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/texas/

This is why I don’t get the ‘live with it’ tacking this week by the admin.  Do they not understand this or are they just trying to get ahead of it.  Either way this isn’t going away anytime soon.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 07, 2020, 11:19:44 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 07, 2020, 11:09:27 AM

This is why I don’t get the ‘live with it’ tacking this week by the admin.  Do they not understand this or are they just trying to get ahead of it.  Either way this isn’t going away anytime soon.

The administration is trying to get it out of the news cycle by focusing on a law and order type of message.  That, combined with an economy that they think will improve between now and November, is their best path to win in their opinion.

If they get behind a "shut it back down" message, it will be an admission that their "LIBERATE" message was a mistake.  And that never happens with this crew.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on July 07, 2020, 11:20:10 AM

'Live with it' is completely consistent with this administration.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 07, 2020, 11:27:58 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 07, 2020, 11:09:27 AM

This is why I don’t get the ‘live with it’ tacking this week by the admin.  Do they not understand this or are they just trying to get ahead of it.  Either way this isn’t going away anytime soon.

I’m perplexed by your statement. How do you not get it? It is 100% consistent with everything potus has done since late January. He simply doesn’t care. His only concern is (and has always been) how the virus affects him.

And yes, I admit that I am probably taking your statement too seriously as you are consistently one of rational voices here. But there is no endgame for trump. Everything is strictly whatever pops into his head.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 07, 2020, 11:33:44 AM

Like it or not there are people around the President that want him to stay in power and also believe the ‘live with it’ strategy is appropriate.  So you can dismiss the admins calculation or try to figure it out.

I personally think it’s a losing strategy now that we’ve proven that rush to reopen caused multiple epidemics—it’s inevitable that deaths will follow if uncontrolled. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on July 07, 2020, 11:58:34 AM

Purely a hypothetical exercise, but all else equal, except Texas and Florida had shutdown for the same period as most of the rest of the country, and Arizona stayed closed through June, like most other places instead of a premature reopening, where do you think we’d be nationally in regards to perception and spread?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on July 07, 2020, 12:10:59 PM

Masks required on a national level since April 1 and we would be much like most of the rest of the world.   Mostly done, keeping a sharp eyed out for hot spots.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 07, 2020, 12:13:04 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on July 07, 2020, 11:58:34 AM

Purely a hypothetical exercise, but all else equal, except Texas and Florida had shutdown for the same period as most of the rest of the country, and Arizona stayed closed through June, like most other places instead of a premature reopening, where do you think we’d be nationally in regards to perception and spread?

With our without mask requirements?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 07, 2020, 12:19:08 PM

Quote from: tower912 on July 07, 2020, 12:10:59 PM

Masks required on a national level since April 1 and we would be much like most of the rest of the world.   Mostly done, keeping a sharp eyed out for hot spots.

Agree, although I would add more (and more accurate) testing to the equation.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on July 07, 2020, 12:23:28 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 07, 2020, 12:13:04 PM

With our without mask requirements?

Without. All else as equal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 07, 2020, 12:27:13 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on July 07, 2020, 11:58:34 AM

Purely a hypothetical exercise, but all else equal, except Texas and Florida had shutdown for the same period as most of the rest of the country, and Arizona stayed closed through June, like most other places instead of a premature reopening, where do you think we’d be nationally in regards to perception and spread?

All else equal, we would be rising in cases and hospitalizations but not as fast as we are now.  Not only masks, but we need policies and messaging that make us come together during these times.  That's not happening.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 07, 2020, 12:31:19 PM

Shocking....

Coronavirus Live Updates: Brazil’s President Tests Positive After Dismissing Precautions

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/world/coronavirus-updates.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 07, 2020, 12:39:16 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 07, 2020, 12:27:13 PM

All else equal, we would be rising in cases and hospitalizations but not as fast as we are now.  Not only masks, but we need policies and messaging that make us come together during these times.  That's not happening.

Yep. It's all a matter of degree. There would be some spread no matter what we do. The key is trying to mitigate the spread in an effort to save lives and avoid overwhelming the healthcare infrastructure. And once things began to reopen, the only reliable way to mitigate the spread was through strict social distancing and masks (and consistent messaging about them from all of our leaders).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 07, 2020, 12:45:53 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on July 07, 2020, 12:39:16 PM

Yep. It's all a matter of degree. There would be some spread no matter what we do. The key is trying to mitigate the spread in an effort to save lives and avoid overwhelming the healthcare infrastructure. And once things began to reopen, the only reliable way to mitigate the spread was through strict social distancing and masks (and consistent messaging about them from all of our leaders).

I would amend this slightly in that the goal is to not have large amounts uncontrolled/un-monitored spread.  If we got got the healthcare infrastructure in place quickly, we may have been able to open up EARLIER in many places. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 07, 2020, 01:16:31 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 07, 2020, 12:45:53 PM

I would amend this slightly in that the goal is to not have large amounts uncontrolled/un-monitored spread.  If we got got the healthcare infrastructure in place quickly, we may have been able to open up EARLIER in many places.

I'm pretty sure we're in the same place - I just used the concept of mitigating spread as shorthand for preventing large amounts of uncontrolled/un-monitored spread.

I also agree about possibly having been able to open earlier if we had done a better job of ramping up the healthcare infrastructure. Even at this late date, we still aren't where we should be in terms of testing and contact tracing capabilities. Incredibly frustrating.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 07, 2020, 01:27:43 PM

https://www.cityofmadison.com/news/public-health-madison-dane-county-releases-new-orders-requiring-face-coverings

About damn time.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 07, 2020, 02:44:35 PM

Trump administration begins formal withdrawal from World Health Organization

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/07/politics/us-withdrawing-world-trade-organization/index.html


Congress received notification that POTUS officially withdrew the U.S. from the ⁦‪@WHO⁩in the midst of a pandemic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on July 08, 2020, 12:47:29 PM

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/633695559900073984

This didn’t age well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 08, 2020, 01:13:35 PM

Quote from: BLM on July 08, 2020, 12:47:29 PM

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/633695559900073984

This didn’t age well.

Apparently, not even "good" immigrants are good enough anymore. No scientific evidence of them posing a risk, no consideration of them as human beings...just pure, impulsive anger. Mind-boggling, but regrettably not surprising.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 08, 2020, 01:54:44 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on July 07, 2020, 02:44:35 PM

Trump administration begins formal withdrawal from World Health Organization

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/07/politics/us-withdrawing-world-trade-organization/index.html


Congress received notification that POTUS officially withdrew the U.S. from the ⁦‪@WHO⁩in the midst of a pandemic.

Not a problem. Under bylaws of WHO, countries must give one-year notice to leave. The withdrawal will not happen.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 08, 2020, 03:40:06 PM

Message from the WH today?

You all who want to make sure your kids are safe going back to school are the problem Schools must open and CDC and the scientists are idiots who need to butt out.

A slight bit of sarcasm, but that is really what they said today.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 08, 2020, 03:57:59 PM

Quote from: Jockey on July 08, 2020, 03:40:06 PM

Message from the WH today?

You all who want to make sure your kids are safe going back to school are the problem Schools must open and CDC and the scientists are idiots who need to butt out.

A slight bit of sarcasm, but that is really what they said today.

That is truly mind-boggling, but not the least bit surprising.

Hopefully, schools will have the common sense to listen to what the scientists are really saying - using guidance already released, and whatever comes out in the scientific literature in the coming weeks - and disregard whatever watered down nonsense Pence comes up with.

If Redfield had a shred of self-respect, he would step down before putting forth a plan he knows won't be strong enough.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on July 08, 2020, 04:15:36 PM

No way!


OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — President Donald Trump’s campaign rally in Tulsa that drew thousands of people in late June, along with large protests that accompanied it, “likely contributed” to a dramatic surge in new coronavirus cases, Tulsa City-County Health Department Director Dr. Bruce Dart said Wednesday.
Tulsa County reported 261 confirmed new cases on Monday, a one-day record high, and another 206 cases on Tuesday.

https://apnews.com/ad96548245e186382225818d8dc416eb

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on July 08, 2020, 04:46:38 PM

And the totals from the county official  in that article would only account for cases in Tulsa County. The article states that the statewide count went up as well.
But go ahead, have a big convention in Jacksonville.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on July 08, 2020, 05:56:56 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on July 07, 2020, 02:44:35 PM

Trump administration begins formal withdrawal from World Health Organization

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/07/politics/us-withdrawing-world-trade-organization/index.html


Congress received notification that POTUS officially withdrew the U.S. from the ⁦‪@WHO⁩in the midst of a pandemic.

Even though this is a petulant whiny move from the POTUS, that isn’t allowed in the swift way he thinks it is, the WHO has shown itself to be a joke at best during most of this, and corrupt at worst. They are as willing and able to be “flexible” and bought and paid for as FIFA or the IOC

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 08, 2020, 06:42:52 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on July 08, 2020, 05:56:56 PM

Even though this is a petulant whiny move from the POTUS, that isn’t allowed in the swift way he thinks it is, the WHO has shown itself to be a joke at best during most of this, and corrupt at worst. They are as willing and able to be “flexible” and bought and paid for as FIFA or the IOC

The WHO was too definitive and didn’t get enough first hand access Early.  Second they Remain poor at communication (To regular people not to doctors).

However, It’s also the agency that coordinates flu vaccines globally, can get access to countries/regions that our doctors/govt can’t and is responsible for stopping epidemics.  It also has access to more information than we do. 

It’s in our best interest for our citizens to stay. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 08, 2020, 06:45:29 PM

One more thing Wags and I will stop my rant.  We know so much more about the virus today than early on and we are still not reacting/responding to what healthcare professionals are recommending. 

Had the WHO given us perfect info on day one, what would we be doing differently today?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 08, 2020, 06:48:25 PM

Short on PPE again

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/07/08/ppe-shortage-masks-gloves-gowns/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/07/08/ppe-shortage-masks-gloves-gowns/)

Testing delays

https://apnews.com/52e57911691a332630a3c93a6e76612a (https://apnews.com/52e57911691a332630a3c93a6e76612a)

Florida hospitals filling.  Spread going from young to old.

https://www.thecentersquare.com/florida/rising-median-age-of-florida-covid-19-cases-spurs-alarm-over-stressed-icu-capacity/article_584d8eb2-c148-11ea-819e-5b34f09fa521.html (https://www.thecentersquare.com/florida/rising-median-age-of-florida-covid-19-cases-spurs-alarm-over-stressed-icu-capacity/article_584d8eb2-c148-11ea-819e-5b34f09fa521.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 08, 2020, 06:58:36 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 08, 2020, 06:48:25 PM

Short on PPE again

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/07/08/ppe-shortage-masks-gloves-gowns/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/07/08/ppe-shortage-masks-gloves-gowns/)

Testing delays

https://apnews.com/52e57911691a332630a3c93a6e76612a (https://apnews.com/52e57911691a332630a3c93a6e76612a)

Florida hospitals filling.  Spread going from young to old.

https://www.thecentersquare.com/florida/rising-median-age-of-florida-covid-19-cases-spurs-alarm-over-stressed-icu-capacity/article_584d8eb2-c148-11ea-819e-5b34f09fa521.html (https://www.thecentersquare.com/florida/rising-median-age-of-florida-covid-19-cases-spurs-alarm-over-stressed-icu-capacity/article_584d8eb2-c148-11ea-819e-5b34f09fa521.html)

Anyone that wants a test can get a test.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 08, 2020, 07:24:38 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on July 08, 2020, 03:57:59 PM

That is truly mind-boggling, but not the least bit surprising.

Hopefully, schools will have the common sense to listen to what the scientists are really saying - using guidance already released, and whatever comes out in the scientific literature in the coming weeks - and disregard whatever watered down nonsense Pence comes up with.

If Redfield had a shred of self-respect, he would step down before putting forth a plan he knows won't be strong enough.

CDC guidelines for schools won’t be worth the paper it is written on. They will bear the CDC name, but they will be written by the White House.

Yes, if Redfield had any dignity, he would resign. But he is a Trump hack who could give 2 sh!ts about integrity or truth.


I remember when the CDC was the gold standard. The mad king put an end to that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 08, 2020, 11:04:35 PM

UW@Madison athletes test positive.

https://mobile.twitter.com/CNN/status/1281073357123923971

The University of Wisconsin athletic department has announced that more student-athletes have tested positive for Covid-19 since the school’s initial round of testing a month ago

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Marquette Gyros on July 08, 2020, 11:19:39 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on July 08, 2020, 11:04:35 PM

UW@Madison athletes test positive.

https://mobile.twitter.com/CNN/status/1281073357123923971

The University of Wisconsin athletic department has announced that more student-athletes have tested positive for Covid-19 since the school’s initial round of testing a month ago

Same at UNC.

This week is starting to feel ominously like the week Tom Hanks caught COVID & the BET got canceled midway through.

Next shoe to drop that sends shockwaves?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 08, 2020, 11:46:56 PM

Quote from: Marquette Gyros on July 08, 2020, 11:19:39 PM

Same at UNC.

This week is starting to feel ominously like the week Tom Hanks caught COVID & the BET got canceled midway through.

Next shoe to drop that sends shockwaves?

And this is BEFORE most students are on campus. If we get unlucky enough to have a bad flu season. all bets are off for America;s future.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on July 08, 2020, 11:54:23 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 08, 2020, 06:45:29 PM

One more thing Wags and I will stop my rant.  We know so much more about the virus today than early on and we are still not reacting/responding to what healthcare professionals are recommending. 

Had the WHO given us perfect info on day one, what would we be doing differently today?

I think the WHO being problematic/corrupt/lacking in many ways and the US bumbling through their own response can be mutually exclusive.  I had my issues with the WHO and what they did/say well before it was apparent that the US was going about this inefficiently and inconsistently

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on July 09, 2020, 09:15:27 AM

PMT with a great point that if we get any sports back this year the NHL is the hope. They're playing in Canada who has actually treated covid as something that is actually happening as a country so maybe they actually get to play. Maybe Toronto as the defending champ should get to host the NBA "bubble." Send college sports north until a vaccine comes around. I’d say maybe move them to Europe but they’re not even welcoming people from the USA so that’s not an option.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on July 09, 2020, 09:44:24 AM

Rewind back to March 11 when Rudy Gobert tested positive for Covid.  2 days prior when most would say he was most contagious, he played 32 minutes against the Raptors.  I only recall 1 person getting covid from this one event in which he was in direct physical contact for several hours.

Not saying covid is a joke it is real and nothing to be taken lightly.  All I am saying is with leagues moving to start up and all the testing and precautions in place, I am optimistic they can restart and complete their respective season.
Sure the athletes will need to make sacrifices not seeing some loved ones or going out to the club but are those not the same sacrifices the majority of the country is also making

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on July 09, 2020, 09:51:46 AM

Quote from: injuryBug on July 09, 2020, 09:44:24 AM

Rewind back to March 11 when Rudy Gobert tested positive for Covid.  2 days prior when most would say he was most contagious, he played 32 minutes against the Raptors.  I only recall 1 person getting covid from this one event in which he was in direct physical contact for several hours.

Not saying covid is a joke it is real and nothing to be taken lightly.  All I am saying is with leagues moving to start up and all the testing and precautions in place, I am optimistic they can restart and complete their respective season.
Sure the athletes will need to make sacrifices not seeing some loved ones or going out to the club but are those not the same sacrifices the majority of the country is also making

We’ll see. What’s happening with college football programs who aren’t even doing organized team activities isn’t exactly promising to me.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on July 09, 2020, 10:19:54 AM

Quote from: BLM on July 09, 2020, 09:51:46 AM

We’ll see. What’s happening with college football programs who aren’t even doing organized team activities isn’t exactly promising to me.

i know and i think that is a case of 18-23 years olds being reckless and thinking they are superman and nothing can stop them.  I am less optimistic about fall collge sports cause of the lack of control of the surroundings while on a college campus.  Then i think if dorm life is going to go on what is the difference with having sports

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 09, 2020, 01:58:22 PM

Pretty startling graphic on changes in COVID cases since reopening. The article also provides number to demonstrate the fallacy of the notion that increased testing is driving the surge in states where cases are on the rise.

How Coronavirus Cases Have Risen Since States Reopened

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/07/09/us/coronavirus-cases-reopening-trends.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

--------------

Bottom line: the shutdown could have worked if we had hung in a little longer, to actually contain the spread. States that reopened early are suffering, and states that exercised a bit more patience are gradually improving. California is a notable outlier, for possible reasons discussed in the article.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on July 09, 2020, 09:38:29 PM

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/09/us/california-coronavirus-imperial-county/index.html

Right now COVID is devastating poor and minority communities. Hospitals beyond capacity, and death rates climbing in these areas.

One has to wonder if the responses, outcries, and policies would have changed already if this was happening in the wealthiest communities instead.

I hate to say it, but Fauci is right, it is probably time to shut things back down in some areas.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 09, 2020, 09:42:06 PM

Quote from: forgetful on July 09, 2020, 09:38:29 PM

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/09/us/california-coronavirus-imperial-county/index.html

Right now COVID is devastating poor and minority communities. Hospitals beyond capacity, and death rates climbing in these areas.

One has to wonder if the responses, outcries, and policies would have changed already if this was happening in the wealthiest communities instead.

I hate to say it, but Fauci is right, it is probably time to shut things back down in some areas.

But, who could have predicted such a scenario!?!?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 09, 2020, 10:11:43 PM

Quote from: forgetful on July 09, 2020, 09:38:29 PM

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/09/us/california-coronavirus-imperial-county/index.html

Right now COVID is devastating poor and minority communities. Hospitals beyond capacity, and death rates climbing in these areas.

One has to wonder if the responses, outcries, and policies would have changed already if this was happening in the wealthiest communities instead.

I hate to say it, but Fauci is right, it is probably time to shut things back down in some areas.

Regrettably, yes it probably is time. AZ, FL, parts of TX and maybe CA. We probably could have avoided getting back to this point if governors had waited a little longer before reopening OR they had taken the reopening process a little more slowly OR they implemented and enforced social distancing and mask policies. So many ways to make this salvageable, and officials in many places have missed every time.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 10, 2020, 07:02:52 AM

I think dr gottlieb has it right here.   Which doesn’t bode well for navigating the fall. 

https://twitter.com/scottgottliebmd/status/1281547240146952193?s=21 (https://twitter.com/scottgottliebmd/status/1281547240146952193?s=21)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 10, 2020, 07:12:37 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 10, 2020, 07:02:52 AM

I think dr gottlieb has it right here.   Which doesn’t bode well for navigating the fall. 

https://twitter.com/scottgottliebmd/status/1281547240146952193?s=21 (https://twitter.com/scottgottliebmd/status/1281547240146952193?s=21)

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

If 3 of the top 8 states in regards to positive cases per million are his examples of states who tried to cruuuussshhhh the virus.  They failed miserably at doing so.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 10, 2020, 07:18:42 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 10, 2020, 07:12:37 AM

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

If 3 of the top 8 states in regards to positive cases per million are his examples of states who tried to cruuuussshhhh the virus.  They failed miserably at doing so.

I dont think you understand this concept.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 10, 2020, 07:24:22 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 10, 2020, 07:02:52 AM

I think dr gottlieb has it right here.   Which doesn’t bode well for navigating the fall. 

https://twitter.com/scottgottliebmd/status/1281547240146952193?s=21 (https://twitter.com/scottgottliebmd/status/1281547240146952193?s=21)

And even worse 3 of the top 4 states for Covid death rate per million residents is NY, CT, and MA. 

Usually I think Gottlieb is pretty good with his analysis but if those 3 states are the examples of what it looks like when you try to crush the virus we better go back to the drawing board.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 10, 2020, 07:27:31 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 10, 2020, 07:24:22 AM

And even worse 3 of the top 4 states for Covid death rate per million residents is NY, CT, and MA. 

Usually I think Gottlieb is pretty good with his analysis but if those 3 states are the examples of what it looks like when you try to crush the virus we better go back to the drawing board.

Again - you are talking about something completely different.  Outbreaks happen, he is speaking to control & management once that occurs.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on July 10, 2020, 07:33:58 AM

I don't have the link but the Mayor of Miami said this week that one third of its COVID-19 deaths have been under the age of 60.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 10, 2020, 07:38:00 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 10, 2020, 07:27:31 AM

Again - you are talking about something completely different.  Outbreaks happen, he is speaking to control & management once that occurs.

If you’re one of the 3 worst states in infection rate and top 8 in deaths I’d say you did a piss poor job of managing the outbreak. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 10, 2020, 07:39:40 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 10, 2020, 07:38:00 AM

If you’re one of the 3 worst states in infection rate and top 8 in deaths I’d say you did a piss poor job of managing the outbreak.

Which is also not what he said. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on July 10, 2020, 07:41:56 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 10, 2020, 07:38:00 AM

If you’re one of the 3 worst states in infection rate and top 8 in deaths I’d say you did a piss poor job of managing the outbreak.

Not going to get into what states handled it well but some things:

1. If you had the virus early treatments were crap so death by definition would be higher

2. If you got the virus later you ignored the obvious problem from other states

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 10, 2020, 07:45:48 AM

Death rates starting to tick up.  Lagging hospitalizations...lagging positive cases....as predicted.

Hopefully it's an anomaly but it doesn't look good.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 10, 2020, 07:46:47 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 10, 2020, 07:38:00 AM

If you’re one of the 3 worst states in infection rate and top 8 in deaths I’d say you did a piss poor job of managing the outbreak.

(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/56244606/donny-youre-out-of-your-element.jpg)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 10, 2020, 08:23:27 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 10, 2020, 07:45:48 AM

Death rates starting to tick up.  Lagging hospitalizations...lagging positive cases....as predicted.

Hopefully it's an anomaly but it doesn't look good.

Yes, totally predictable and tragic. Unfortunately, we are just at the beginning of the uptick and experience has shown that once death numbers begin to rise, it takes a lot of time and a huge, coordinated effort to tamp it back down.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 10, 2020, 08:48:01 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 10, 2020, 07:02:52 AM

I think dr gottlieb has it right here.   Which doesn’t bode well for navigating the fall. 

https://twitter.com/scottgottliebmd/status/1281547240146952193?s=21 (https://twitter.com/scottgottliebmd/status/1281547240146952193?s=21)

I thought very early on that the patchwork approach was going to lead to one, long, rolling wave. Wishing it away wasn't going to work.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 10, 2020, 08:53:02 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 10, 2020, 07:45:48 AM

Death rates starting to tick up.  Lagging hospitalizations...lagging positive cases....as predicted.

Hopefully it's an anomaly but it doesn't look good.

Yup. Deaths lag new cases by 21-28 days, so if you look at the point where cases started to rise again...
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

...we are right at the beginning of the uptick in deaths.

We can only hope that with the average age of new cases skewing lower and the improvements in treatments since March, the death rate remains lower than we saw at the beginning of this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 10, 2020, 08:54:48 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 10, 2020, 07:24:22 AM

And even worse 3 of the top 4 states for Covid death rate per million residents is NY, CT, and MA. 

Usually I think Gottlieb is pretty good with his analysis but if those 3 states are the examples of what it looks like when you try to crush the virus we better go back to the drawing board.

I'm pretty sure you are smarter than this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on July 10, 2020, 10:09:33 AM

Financial Times goes in depth with Tony Fauci. He has not seen the President in person at WH since June 2nd. He has not briefed him in more than 2 months.

Fauci: "I have a reputation as you have probably figured out, of speaking the truth at all times and not sugar-coating things. And that may be one of the reasons why I haven't been on television very much lately."

https://www.ft.com/content/57834c2c-a078-4736-9173-8fb32cfbbf4e

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on July 10, 2020, 10:12:03 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on July 10, 2020, 10:09:33 AM

Financial Times goes in depth with Tony Fauci. He has not seen the President in person at WH since June 2nd. He has not briefed him in more than 2 months.

Fauci: "I have a reputation as you have probably figured out, of speaking the truth at all times and not sugar-coating things. And that may be one of the reasons why I haven't been on television very much lately."

https://www.ft.com/content/57834c2c-a078-4736-9173-8fb32cfbbf4e

Might explain his press tour. One of the reasons to play nice was to stay employed so he could still have influence on the Task Force. With that seeming to be gone, might as well get the message out any way possible.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 10, 2020, 12:27:55 PM

Quote from: cheebs09 on July 10, 2020, 10:12:03 AM

Might explain his press tour. One of the reasons to play nice was to stay employed so he could still have influence on the Task Force. With that seeming to be gone, might as well get the message out any way possible.

Yep. Here is more from CNBC (with reference to the FT interview)....

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/10/coronavirus-trumps-rift-with-white-house-health-advisor-fauci-widens-as-cases-hit-new-records.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 10, 2020, 02:55:29 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on July 10, 2020, 12:27:55 PM

Yep. Here is more from CNBC (with reference to the FT interview)....

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/10/coronavirus-trumps-rift-with-white-house-health-advisor-fauci-widens-as-cases-hit-new-records.html

Why isn’t the Cabinet looking at the 25th Amendment?  Trump’s neglect is causing people to die every day. Every trump death enabler needs to be removed in November.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 10, 2020, 03:48:11 PM

Quote from: Jockey on July 10, 2020, 02:55:29 PM

Why isn’t the Cabinet looking at the 25th Amendment?  Trump’s neglect is causing people to die every day. Every trump death enabler needs to be removed in November.

Because they are just as absent-minded and incompetent as he is.
Plus, does he have a cabinet?  1/2 of them are just "Acting Secretary" which I believe doesn't count.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 10, 2020, 04:01:27 PM

Quote from: Jockey on July 10, 2020, 02:55:29 PM

Why isn’t the Cabinet looking at the 25th Amendment? 

Uhhhhhhhh, DeVos, Carson, Perry, Chao, Barr, Pompeo, Pence, Mnuchin...good luck with that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on July 10, 2020, 06:34:08 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on July 07, 2020, 09:48:50 AM

Where are deaths increasing again? see a pretty consistent pattern going down here

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Not to say I'm a fortune teller, but that chart is pretty obvious... 3 days later

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 10, 2020, 06:43:11 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on July 10, 2020, 06:34:08 PM

Not to say I'm a fortune teller, but that chart is pretty obvious... 3 days later

By the way our positivity rate and testing delays have increased to the point that ‘cases’ is no longer a leading indicator.  So we are watching the virus from about a 5 days to a week late in those numbers. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on July 10, 2020, 07:55:12 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 10, 2020, 06:43:11 PM

By the way our positivity rate and testing delays have increased to the point that ‘cases’ is no longer a leading indicator.  So we are watching the virus from about a 5 days to a week late in those numbers.

Abbott in TX today warned that the deaths they are seeing in TX now are still from cases at the end of May, so prepare for things to get worse.

Also, indicated that if people don't start following recommendations and rules, he will have to shut the state down.

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/07/10/greg-abbott-shutdown-texas-mask-order/

I figure other areas like Florida are similar. If so, this ramp up in deaths is just the beginning.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 10, 2020, 08:08:22 PM

Quote from: forgetful on July 10, 2020, 07:55:12 PM

Abbott in TX today warned that the deaths they are seeing in TX now are still from cases at the end of May, so prepare for things to get worse.

Also, indicated that if people don't start following recommendations and rules, he will have to shut the state down.

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/07/10/greg-abbott-shutdown-texas-mask-order/

I figure other areas like Florida are similar. If so, this ramp up in deaths is just the beginning.

While it isn't a perfect correlation, the simplest thing to do is simply look at the case trend 4 weeks prior. The lag is quite predictable at this point.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on July 10, 2020, 08:55:06 PM

Don't be Richard Rose III

https://twitter.com/FirenzeMike/status/1281765490906603523

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 10, 2020, 11:52:11 PM

Over 70,000 cases today.

We are in a free fall, people. With a pro-virus president & VP, this is gonna really, really get ugly.

There is NO good news. We will bear the effects from having a leader who simply doesn’t care for years to come. I am speaking physically and economically.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 11, 2020, 06:16:41 AM

This puts us nearly back at prior peak.

https://twitter.com/scottgottliebmd/status/1281786741029052418?s=21 (https://twitter.com/scottgottliebmd/status/1281786741029052418?s=21)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 11, 2020, 06:31:29 AM

Loss of smell seems to be inflammation related as opposed to anything with the nervous system. 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31525-7/fulltext (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31525-7/fulltext)

https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-scientists-uncover-why-some-people-lose-their-sense-of-smell-138898 (https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-scientists-uncover-why-some-people-lose-their-sense-of-smell-138898)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on July 11, 2020, 07:31:10 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 11, 2020, 06:31:29 AM

Loss of smell seems to be inflammation related as opposed to anything with the nervous system. 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31525-7/fulltext (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31525-7/fulltext)

https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-scientists-uncover-why-some-people-lose-their-sense-of-smell-138898 (https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-scientists-uncover-why-some-people-lose-their-sense-of-smell-138898)

From a scientific perspective, we are learning how many diverse and essential roles the ACE2 receptor plays in our physiology. The reason it is pretty crazy scientifically, is that we didn't even know the protein existed until around 2000, since then we have learned that plays an essential (beneficial) roles in regulating blood pressure, clotting, inflammation and others, but with COVID, we just keep finding more aspects it is regulating.

To me it shows how little we still understand about how our own biology is regulated.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 11, 2020, 08:45:30 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 11, 2020, 06:16:41 AM

This puts us nearly back at prior peak.

https://twitter.com/scottgottliebmd/status/1281786741029052418?s=21 (https://twitter.com/scottgottliebmd/status/1281786741029052418?s=21)

So much for the belief by some that the current wave wouldn't lead to hospitalizations because it was 'mostly young people.' Young people can get sick from COVID; young people can spread COVID to older and more vulnerable people. Put it together, and this is what you get.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 11, 2020, 08:53:41 AM

For those who said we could 'never go back' once we started reopening, we now have two states that reopened WAY too early considering reversals.

Warnings of further restrictions in Texas and Georgia as U.S. cases continue record climbs.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/11/world/coronavirus-updates.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage#link-a93b154

In Texas, which reported record numbers of daily cases four times this week, Gov. Greg Abbott signaled the possibility of a new economic “lockdown” if the state cannot curtail the caseloads and hospitalizations that have made it one of the country’s worst hot spots in the pandemic.

Mr. Abbott, a Republican, predicted in a televised interview that “things will get worse” and said that he might take steps even more drastic than a statewide face-mask requirement that has angered members of his party.

....

In Georgia, which reported more than 4,000 new cases on Friday, Atlanta officials said they were preparing to shift back to “Phase 1” guidelines, which call for residents to largely stay at home. Most of Georgia’s cases have been concentrated in the counties making up the Atlanta metropolitan area.

Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms of Atlanta, who said she had tested positive for the coronavirus this week, issued a mask mandate in the city on Wednesday and added further limits on large gatherings.

Georgia’s growing concerns were also underscored when Gov. Brian Kemp said that the state was again transforming a convention center in Atlanta into a makeshift medical center as hospitals were filling with patients.

-----------------

Because science predicted this....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 11, 2020, 09:12:58 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on July 11, 2020, 08:45:30 AM

So much for the belief by some that the current wave wouldn't lead to hospitalizations because it was 'mostly young people.' Young people can get sick from COVID; young people can spread COVID to older and more vulnerable people. Put it together, and this is what you get.

Right, and again, this is a messaging problem.  We heard ad nauseum that, "covid only really affects old people".  DANGEROUS.  The media and our political leaders ran with that.  So naturally... we repeat it enough that it gets taken out of context.  And now we have a ton of 'young people' who didn't think covid was dangerous for them in the hospital.

We are a nation of 'experts' that can only be bothered to read the headline.  We are a nation of hot takes all rushing to an answer.  We have lost the ability to make grounded, deliberate decisions.  Everyone has to be FIRST!

(https://i.redd.it/8dnabvsjxz951.jpg)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 11, 2020, 09:35:48 AM

And so it begins:

Quote:
The large refrigerated trailer suddenly appeared one day near the loading dock at HCA Healthcare Northwest, taking some on staff by surprise. But soon its purpose became clear.

When a patient died last week in the hospital’s intensive care unit — nearly full these days of critically ill COVID-19 patients — the body was packed in ice and moved into the trailer. The hospital’s morgue was full. HCA officials confirmed the trailer was used as temporary storage until the body could be picked up by a funeral home.
As other hospitals have or prepare to follow suit, there is a stark new reality in Houston.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/As-COVID-19-continues-to-slam-Houston-the-death-15400462.php


Quote:
The increase in ambulance diversions, coupled with the spike in patients being held indefinitely in emergency rooms, are the latest indicators that Houston hospitals are straining to keep up with a surge of new coronavirus patients. ProPublica and NBC News have previously reported that a public hospital in Houston ran out of a medication to treat COVID-19 patients and that a spike in at-home deaths from cardiac arrest suggests that the death toll from the coronavirus may be higher than official statistics show.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/all-hospitals-are-full-houston-overwhelmed-icus-leave-covid-19-n1233430

Quote:
Among the recent deaths were a Northeast Baptist Hospital patient in San Antonio who was in his 30s, a Grand Prairie man in his 40s, a Garland woman in her 60s who had no underlying conditions, a 73-year-old man who was about to go homefrom a prison rehabilitation program and a baby boy in Corpus Christi who wasn’t 6 months old yet.

Their deaths come as counties prepare for a surge in fatalities, some by requesting trailers to expand their hospital and county morgue capacities.

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/07/10/texas-coronavirus-deaths-morgues-capacity/

Quote:
PHOENIX — Phoenix Mayor Kate Gallego says one Abrazo location is nearing capacity in its morgue and may be requesting refrigerated trucks. The Maricopa County Medical Examiner's office is also reportedly near capacity.

https://www.abc15.com/news/coronavirus/phoenix-mayor-abrazo-nearly-out-of-morgue-space-may-be-requesting-refrigerated-trucks

As expected deaths are rising in hotspots and will start to get exponential in a couple of weeks,.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 11, 2020, 09:44:28 AM

Sadly we've seen this movie already.  I am hopefully the improvements in treatment make it better than last time and the hospitals don't break.  A political risk analyst that I follow posted this churchill quote yesterday...seems appropriate.

The United States can always be relied upon to do the right thing — having first exhausted all possible alternatives.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 11, 2020, 11:03:24 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 11, 2020, 09:44:28 AM

Sadly we've seen this movie already.  I am hopefully the improvements in treatment make it better than last time and the hospitals don't break.  A political risk analyst that I follow posted this churchill quote yesterday...seems appropriate.

The United States can always be relied upon to do the right thing — having first exhausted all possible alternatives.

Except that when Churchill said this, there had never been a prez trump. At this point in time, that statement no longer applies.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 11, 2020, 11:29:24 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on July 11, 2020, 09:35:48 AM

And so it begins:

Quote:
The large refrigerated trailer suddenly appeared one day near the loading dock at HCA Healthcare Northwest, taking some on staff by surprise. But soon its purpose became clear.

When a patient died last week in the hospital’s intensive care unit — nearly full these days of critically ill COVID-19 patients — the body was packed in ice and moved into the trailer. The hospital’s morgue was full. HCA officials confirmed the trailer was used as temporary storage until the body could be picked up by a funeral home.
As other hospitals have or prepare to follow suit, there is a stark new reality in Houston.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/As-COVID-19-continues-to-slam-Houston-the-death-15400462.php


Quote:
The increase in ambulance diversions, coupled with the spike in patients being held indefinitely in emergency rooms, are the latest indicators that Houston hospitals are straining to keep up with a surge of new coronavirus patients. ProPublica and NBC News have previously reported that a public hospital in Houston ran out of a medication to treat COVID-19 patients and that a spike in at-home deaths from cardiac arrest suggests that the death toll from the coronavirus may be higher than official statistics show.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/all-hospitals-are-full-houston-overwhelmed-icus-leave-covid-19-n1233430

Quote:
Among the recent deaths were a Northeast Baptist Hospital patient in San Antonio who was in his 30s, a Grand Prairie man in his 40s, a Garland woman in her 60s who had no underlying conditions, a 73-year-old man who was about to go homefrom a prison rehabilitation program and a baby boy in Corpus Christi who wasn’t 6 months old yet.

Their deaths come as counties prepare for a surge in fatalities, some by requesting trailers to expand their hospital and county morgue capacities.

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/07/10/texas-coronavirus-deaths-morgues-capacity/

Quote:
PHOENIX — Phoenix Mayor Kate Gallego says one Abrazo location is nearing capacity in its morgue and may be requesting refrigerated trucks. The Maricopa County Medical Examiner's office is also reportedly near capacity.

https://www.abc15.com/news/coronavirus/phoenix-mayor-abrazo-nearly-out-of-morgue-space-may-be-requesting-refrigerated-trucks

As expected deaths are rising in hotspots and will start to get exponential in a couple of weeks,.

FWIW, my sister is a hospital administrator in Houston and told me last night the situation isn’t as dire as the media is making it out to be there.

She does think it’ll get worse in the next few weeks because of the protests and 4th of July but thinks they can handle it.

She does agree the biggest problem is people not following social distancing and mask guidelines.  She doesn’t believe there is anyway possible we can have anything like even 25% capacity sporting events or concerts, at least in Houston

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on July 11, 2020, 12:47:02 PM

You'll never believe what happened to the 30-year-old man who attended a COVID party convinced this whole coronavirus thing is a hoax.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/30-year-man-dies-attending-covid-party-thinking/story?id=71731414

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 11, 2020, 01:06:24 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on July 11, 2020, 12:47:02 PM

You'll never believe what happened to the 30-year-old man who attended a COVID party convinced this whole coronavirus thing is a hoax.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/30-year-man-dies-attending-covid-party-thinking/story?id=71731414

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 11, 2020, 02:43:58 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on July 11, 2020, 12:47:02 PM

You'll never believe what happened to the 30-year-old man who attended a COVID party convinced this whole coronavirus thing is a hoax.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/30-year-man-dies-attending-covid-party-thinking/story?id=71731414

Is the gene pool really gonna miss this guy?

The unidentified patient told nurses about the party, which she said is hosted by someone diagnosed with coronavirus. "The thought is people get together to see if the virus is real and if anyone gets infected," Appleby said.

Never forget - these nuts are killing innocent people. Good riddance!

Believing Trump and Fox News is deadly. Literally.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 11, 2020, 03:55:48 PM

Florida County Commissioner Who Voted Against Masks In Hospital With COVID

https://www.newsweek.com/florida-county-commissioner-who-voted-against-masks-hospital-covid-1517121

Paul Waldron—the commissioner for St. Johns County just south of Jacksonville, Florida—has tested positive for COVID-19 and is currently in the hospital in critical condition. Last week, Waldron voted against a countywide order requiring all residents to wear face masks as a way to prevent coronavirus infections.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on July 11, 2020, 04:13:35 PM

Quote from: Jockey on July 11, 2020, 02:43:58 PM

Is the gene pool really gonna miss this guy?

The unidentified patient told nurses about the party, which she said is hosted by someone diagnosed with coronavirus. "The thought is people get together to see if the virus is real and if anyone gets infected," Appleby said.

Never forget - these nuts are killing innocent people. Good riddance!

Believing Trump and Fox News is deadly. Literally.

This guy obviously made some terrible choices, but he's also a victim of a political machine that for months has been telling him that COVID-19 is a hoax, or just the common cold, or just the flu.  And that unless you're elderly or in poor health, getting infected is not big deal. That 99 percent of cases are harmless.
Those are the real villains here. This guy just unfortunately fell for their scam.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on July 11, 2020, 04:18:51 PM

Packed fans, no masks for a day of baseball in Taiwan, larger population than Florida.

6 active cases, 7 total deaths. Last death was May 11th.

https://twitter.com/StevenTDennis/status/1282027395625754626?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on July 11, 2020, 04:25:50 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on July 11, 2020, 04:18:51 PM

Packed fans, no masks for a day of baseball in Taiwan, larger population than Florida.

6 active cases, 7 total deaths. Last death was May 11th.

https://twitter.com/StevenTDennis/status/1282027395625754626?s=19

Must not be testing in Taiwan. Smart.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 11, 2020, 04:26:24 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on July 11, 2020, 04:13:35 PM

This guy obviously made some terrible choices, but he's also a victim of a political machine that for months has been telling him that COVID-19 is a hoax, or just the common cold, or just the flu.  And that unless you're elderly or in poor health, getting infected is not big deal. That 99 percent of cases are harmless.
Those are the real villains here. This guy just unfortunately fell for their scam.

Stupidity is not a defense.

But, as to you point, the leadership of an unnamed party is killing people. Unfortunately, they have millions of willing victims.

See tweet above from Hard’s. I know it is meant to be funny, but that is the way these people actually think.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 11, 2020, 04:44:28 PM

1% of the US population has now been confirmed positive.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on July 11, 2020, 04:58:51 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on July 11, 2020, 04:44:28 PM

1% of the US population has now been confirmed positive.

Only 69% more for herd immunity!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on July 11, 2020, 05:31:02 PM

I suggest Joe Rogan podcast with Dr. Rhonda Patrick. Very complex/interesting stuff

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 11, 2020, 05:32:49 PM

Quote from: reinko on July 11, 2020, 04:58:51 PM

Only 69% more for herd immunity!

If we get 130,000 dead for each 1%, that means a whole lot o’ millions.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 11, 2020, 06:12:25 PM

I thought this was an interesting read about where we are. 

https://www.wired.com/story/larry-brilliant-on-how-well-are-we-fighting-covid-19/ (https://www.wired.com/story/larry-brilliant-on-how-well-are-we-fighting-covid-19/)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 11, 2020, 06:55:09 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 11, 2020, 06:12:25 PM

I thought this was an interesting read about where we are. 

https://www.wired.com/story/larry-brilliant-on-how-well-are-we-fighting-covid-19/ (https://www.wired.com/story/larry-brilliant-on-how-well-are-we-fighting-covid-19/)

Good stuff, thanks Frenns

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 11, 2020, 07:29:14 PM

Quote from: reinko on July 11, 2020, 04:58:51 PM

Only 69% more for herd immunity!

nice

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on July 11, 2020, 07:52:08 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 11, 2020, 06:12:25 PM

I thought this was an interesting read about where we are. 

https://www.wired.com/story/larry-brilliant-on-how-well-are-we-fighting-covid-19/ (https://www.wired.com/story/larry-brilliant-on-how-well-are-we-fighting-covid-19/)

What I take from this is what was once THE world leader is now not even sitting at the table anymore. The rest of the world will figure this out sooner than later. Let’s just hope come January the USA can get a seat at the table again.

Is America Great Yet?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 11, 2020, 08:27:35 PM

Quote from: BLM on July 11, 2020, 07:52:08 PM

What I take from this is what was once THE world leader is now not even sitting at the table anymore. The rest of the world will figure this out sooner than later. Let’s just hope come January the USA can get a seat at the table again.

Is America Great Yet?

We are now the shytehole country. Sad.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on July 12, 2020, 10:44:47 AM

I can't help but wonder if some of these governors right now are just afraid to be the first one to shut things back down. And when one does, others will follow.

That, and fear of the election year. Republican governors base think this is still largely overblown and a hoax, and the virus still is more rampant in poor and minority communities that usually vote democratic. So, any shutdowns will dissolve part of the base and make them susceptible to losing an election. A shutdown, as of right now, is not going to win them votes, or aid in rallying excitement amongst their base.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 12, 2020, 11:07:20 AM

This is a shot of a line outside a bar to get in in Alexandria VA. He said there were several other bars with similar lines and barely any masks.

Oh and on a typically slow reporting day, Florida had more cases in a single day than anywhere else in the country.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on July 12, 2020, 02:21:07 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on July 12, 2020, 11:07:20 AM

This is a shot of a line outside a bar to get in in Alexandria VA. He said there were several other bars with similar lines and barely any masks.

Oh and on a typically slow reporting day, Florida had more cases in a single day than anywhere else in the country.

makes no sense why people would want to enter a bar

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: BM1090 on July 12, 2020, 02:48:27 PM

I'm thrilled that a ton of countries have reined in the virus and seem to have it under control. I'm thrilled to have sports and society back in some areas of the world. Pretty pissed that we're going to be one of the last countries to get back to "normal". Predictable, though.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on July 12, 2020, 04:01:47 PM

CDC chart, cases per 10,000 by race:

https://twitter.com/ASlavitt/status/1282412608667234306?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 12, 2020, 04:13:03 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on July 12, 2020, 11:07:20 AM

This is a shot of a line outside a bar to get in in Alexandria VA. He said there were several other bars with similar lines and barely any masks.

Oh and on a typically slow reporting day, Florida had more cases in a single day than anywhere else in the country.

King Street

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 12, 2020, 06:01:45 PM

Quote from: BM1090 on July 12, 2020, 02:48:27 PM

I'm thrilled that a ton of countries have reigned the virus in and seem to have it under control. I'm thrilled to have sports and society back in some areas of the world. Pretty pissed that we're going to be one of the last countries to get back to "normal". Predictable, though.

Agreed. When I see other countries inching towards normal, I know it's possible with discipline. The fact that we aren't one of those countries is infuriating, but not surprising.

The CDC has messed up many things...but if POTUS and every governor had supported and strictly followed CDC's three-phase reopening guidelines, we would be much better off today.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on July 12, 2020, 07:17:55 PM

Florida:

May 20 vs July 12th

https://twitter.com/keithboykin/status/1282344989419278336

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 12, 2020, 07:27:48 PM

This is all so sad to see happening again.  By the way we are all worse off now as labs prioritize hot spots—we lose visibility and ability to contain outbreaks everywhere else. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 12, 2020, 07:41:36 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 12, 2020, 07:27:48 PM

This is all so sad to see happening again.  By the way we are all worse off now as labs prioritize hot spots—we lose visibility and ability to contain outbreaks everywhere else.

On the bright side, we weren’t doing anything about containment before, so no big loss.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 12, 2020, 07:49:40 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on July 12, 2020, 07:41:36 PM

On the bright side, we weren’t doing anything about containment before, so no big loss.

My state was

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 12, 2020, 07:56:34 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 12, 2020, 07:49:40 PM

My state was

Yup. And a patchwork response was always doomed to fail. I would say "absolute void of leadership" at the top, but no leadership would have been better than one that consistently chose the worst possible course of action.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 12, 2020, 08:12:40 PM

And now the White House is going into overdrive to discredit Fauci....

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/12/us/politics/fauci-trump-coronavirus.html

Administration officials moved to treat the nation’s top infectious disease expert as if he were a warring political rival, releasing a list of what they said were questionable statements he had made.

President Trump’s advisers undercut the nation’s top infectious disease expert, Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, over the weekend, anonymously providing details to various news outlets about statements he had made early in the coronavirus outbreak that they said were inaccurate.

——————————

Lovely. ‘Opposition research‘ on the nation’s top infectious disease expert in the midst of a pandemic.

This will help....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 12, 2020, 08:24:01 PM

Meanwhile in Arizona...where cases, hospitalizations and ICU occupancy rates  have surged...

It takes weeks to get COVID-19 test results in Arizona. That makes it harder to control the spread

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-health/2020/07/06/slow-covid-19-test-results-have-cascade-effect-public-health/5386582002/

—————————


Waits of 8-12 hours in line to get a test, and then a couple of weeks more to get the result. If this is the testing situation in one of the new epicenters of the pandemic, we are screwed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 12, 2020, 08:25:15 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on July 12, 2020, 08:12:40 PM

And now the White House is going into overdrive to discredit Fauci....

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/12/us/politics/fauci-trump-coronavirus.html

Administration officials moved to treat the nation’s top infectious disease expert as if he were a warring political rival, releasing a list of what they said were questionable statements he had made.

President Trump’s advisers undercut the nation’s top infectious disease expert, Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, over the weekend, anonymously providing details to various news outlets about statements he had made early in the coronavirus outbreak that they said were inaccurate.

——————————

Lovely. ‘Opposition research‘ on the nation’s top infectious disease expert in the midst of a pandemic.

This will help....

C’mon, Goo 

Who knows more about a pandemic - a guy who sold buildings or a guy who has studied this for 40+ years? Obviously, it’s the guy who sold buildings.

And that is the crux of everything. republicans have been so anti-science just to contradict Libs that they now believe the garbage they’ve been spewing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 12, 2020, 08:27:07 PM

I felt this way when we were in epidemic.  Prioritize testing in areas where you have control (or are trying to gain control).  Hot spots have no little chance to make a dent. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 12, 2020, 08:27:21 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on July 12, 2020, 08:24:01 PM

Meanwhile in Arizona...where cases, hospitalizations and ICU occupancy rates  have surged...

It takes weeks to get COVID-19 test results in Arizona. That makes it harder to control the spread

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-health/2020/07/06/slow-covid-19-test-results-have-cascade-effect-public-health/5386582002/

—————————


Waits of 8-12 hours in line to get a test, and then a couple of weeks more to get the result. If this is the testing situation in one of the new epicenters of the pandemic, we are screwed.

Criminal!! Hope all these people are held accountable- preferably before they reach the gates of h@ll.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 12, 2020, 08:31:40 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on July 12, 2020, 08:12:40 PM

And now the White House is going into overdrive to discredit Fauci....

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/12/us/politics/fauci-trump-coronavirus.html

Administration officials moved to treat the nation’s top infectious disease expert as if he were a warring political rival, releasing a list of what they said were questionable statements he had made.

President Trump’s advisers undercut the nation’s top infectious disease expert, Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, over the weekend, anonymously providing details to various news outlets about statements he had made early in the coronavirus outbreak that they said were inaccurate.

——————————

Lovely. ‘Opposition research‘ on the nation’s top infectious disease expert in the midst of a pandemic.

This will help....

Some of which have already been mimicked here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 12, 2020, 08:34:43 PM

Quote from: Jockey on July 12, 2020, 08:27:21 PM

Criminal!! Hope all these people are held accountable- preferably before they reach the gates of h@ll.

I just saw an interview with the mayor of Phoenix. She requested federal assistance several weeks ago to develop surge testing capability, and has gotten no response. Horrifying.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 12, 2020, 09:04:45 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on July 12, 2020, 08:12:40 PM

Lovely. ‘Opposition research‘ on the nation’s top infectious disease expert in the midst of a pandemic.

This will help....

As I said, "consistently chose the worst possible course of action".

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on July 13, 2020, 12:26:56 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 12, 2020, 07:27:48 PM

This is all so sad to see happening again.  By the way we are all worse off now as labs prioritize hot spots—we lose visibility and ability to contain outbreaks everywhere else.

Agreed.  I was incredibly disturbed the more i dug into data this weekend.  So sad to see.  Literally sad.  Of course it comes after we've all had a few weeks to "relax" and see the numbers trending in the right direction.   Guess I should plan on hunkering down for another year...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on July 13, 2020, 07:24:28 AM

Johns Hopkins Data Chart U.S. and European Union:

https://twitter.com/StevenTDennis/status/1282442536305426432?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 13, 2020, 07:35:54 AM

We were so close.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on July 13, 2020, 07:48:33 AM

Florida with more new cases in one day than South Korea had in totality.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 13, 2020, 08:06:10 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 13, 2020, 07:35:54 AM

We were so close.

May 18th:
President Trump on Monday gave an emphatic “Yes!” to Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar saying in an interview that reopening the economy is not dependent on having a vaccine for the coronavirus and that keeping businesses shuttered creates its own health crisis.

The president issued a one-word tweet — “Yes!” — linking to Azar’s Sunday interview on CNN and followed it up with two more messages: “REOPEN OUR COUNTRY!” and “TRANSITION TO GREATNESS.”

https://nypost.com/2020/05/18/trump-tweets-support-of-hhs-secretarys-call-to-reopen-economy/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 13, 2020, 08:09:29 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on July 13, 2020, 08:06:10 AM

May 18th:
President Trump on Monday gave an emphatic “Yes!” to Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar saying in an interview that reopening the economy is not dependent on having a vaccine for the coronavirus and that keeping businesses shuttered creates its own health crisis.

The president issued a one-word tweet — “Yes!” — linking to Azar’s Sunday interview on CNN and followed it up with two more messages: “REOPEN OUR COUNTRY!” and “TRANSITION TO GREATNESS.”

https://nypost.com/2020/05/18/trump-tweets-support-of-hhs-secretarys-call-to-reopen-economy/

In retrospect, while we were clearly ill-prepared to handle the initial surge for various reasons already discussed, what has happened since mid-May has been an even larger abdication of responsibility.  We got a late start, but were doing the right things.

Then we decided that was too hard, and apparently now are just hoping and praying for a vaccine with no clear plan.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 13, 2020, 08:16:08 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on July 13, 2020, 07:24:28 AM

Johns Hopkins Data Chart U.S. and European Union:

https://twitter.com/StevenTDennis/status/1282442536305426432?s=19

It just boggles the mind that the True Believers still accept the administration's BS that this is going to just disappear. Meanwhile millions get sick - often with long-term consequences if they are lucky enough to survive - and tens of thousands die.

Heartbreaking to see a nation with so much potential fail so miserably...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 13, 2020, 08:47:34 AM

Trump just Retweeted Chuck Woolery (yea game show host Chuck Woolery) saying the CDC is lying about everything.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on July 13, 2020, 08:57:55 AM

We were never going to get this right. As Americans, we pride ourselves on freedom above all else, and we've come to view freedom as antithetical to cooperation or shared sacrifice.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 13, 2020, 09:01:57 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on July 13, 2020, 08:47:34 AM

Trump just Retweeted Chuck Woolery (yea game show host Chuck Woolery) saying the CDC is lying about everything.

Sickening.

But we knew they were gonna Fauci. There is no level the orange killer won’t sink to. And he has the help of a party actively working to kill Americans.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 13, 2020, 09:03:53 AM

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/13/upshot/coronavirus-response-fax-machines.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

Public health officials in Houston are struggling to keep up with one of the nation’s largest coronavirus outbreaks. They are desperate to trace cases and quarantine patients before they spread the virus to others. But first, they must negotiate with the office fax machine.

The machine at the Harris County Public Health department in Houston recently became overwhelmed when one laboratory sent a large batch of test results, spraying hundreds of pages all over the floor.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 13, 2020, 09:29:46 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 13, 2020, 09:03:53 AM

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/13/upshot/coronavirus-response-fax-machines.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

Public health officials in Houston are struggling to keep up with one of the nation’s largest coronavirus outbreaks. They are desperate to trace cases and quarantine patients before they spread the virus to others. But first, they must negotiate with the office fax machine.

The machine at the Harris County Public Health department in Houston recently became overwhelmed when one laboratory sent a large batch of test results, spraying hundreds of pages all over the floor.

(https://img.ifunny.co/images/915f2e2c3eaac409db8028700d7651ac9bec68c00596f7c1309be080b344f9e7_1.jpg)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 13, 2020, 09:31:33 AM

White House is already sending out statements to News organizations criticizing Fauci.

No depths are too low for these people.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 13, 2020, 09:42:10 AM

It's just part of the never ending attempt to shift blame. Its the fault of the WHO, Obama, the CDC, Biden, the media, Hillary, Democratic legislators, woman, people of color, Democratic Governors, CNN, and now Fauci. I'm sure I missed a few.

But the guy at the top? "I take no responsibility at all."

(https://images2.imgbox.com/d5/36/OcAyEbhp_o.png) (http://imgbox.com/OcAyEbhp)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 13, 2020, 09:48:50 AM

Even if the administration is right about their lack of fault back in January, February and March (and they're not), what is their excuse for May, June and July?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: withoutbias on July 13, 2020, 09:53:56 AM

I don’t know how it’s possible to defend any of this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on July 13, 2020, 09:59:08 AM

Quote from: WithoutBias on July 13, 2020, 09:53:56 AM

I don’t know how it’s possible to defend any of this.

I think at this point a decent segment of society just doesn't care.  Someone asked very early in this thread that we may have to ask how much of the economy do we give up to save lives.  I think a fair bit of people in the US can deal with 250,000 deaths as long as 1% of GDP is saved.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on July 13, 2020, 10:05:57 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 13, 2020, 09:48:50 AM

Even if the administration is right about their lack of fault back in January, February and March (and they're not), what is their excuse for May, June and July?

Yea. I mean when the only success you can claim is shutting down travel from China early on, it’s not a great story to tell.

It will be interesting to see how this goes. If Trump somehow starts going all-in on the mask, then he admits being wrong and probably loses a chunk of his base. If things keep going how they have been, things are going to keep getting worse.

It’s crazy to think if he listened to experts and we had a controlled re-open with masks, the economy is probably roaring back and his re-election is very likely.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 13, 2020, 10:40:57 AM

Quote from: cheebs09 on July 13, 2020, 10:05:57 AM

It’s crazy to think if he listened to experts and we had a controlled re-open with masks, the economy is probably roaring back and his re-election is very likely.

That would require knowing how to govern.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 13, 2020, 10:43:16 AM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on July 13, 2020, 09:59:08 AM

I think at this point a decent segment of society just doesn't care.  Someone asked very early in this thread that we may have to ask how much of the economy do we give up to save lives.  I think a fair bit of people in the US can deal with 250,000 deaths as long as 1% of GDP is saved.

I know you know this, but that's just a false choice.  The best way to fix the GDP is to get the virus under control.

It's like if you have a leak in your house that stains your drywall.  Sure you can paint over the drywall, but unless you fix the leak, the wall will continue to stain.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on July 13, 2020, 12:41:05 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 13, 2020, 10:43:16 AM

I know you know this, but that's just a false choice.  The best way to fix the GDP is to get the virus under control.

It's like if you have a leak in your house that stains your drywall.  Sure you can paint over the drywall, but unless you fix the leak, the wall will continue to stain.

Not necessarily disagreeing but their argument goes like this....

1. If you try to ensure not a single person dies,  things are so restrictive that the economy goes into Great Depression territory

2. If you don't care at all how many die,  the economy gets hit but not as bad as #1.

It appears that a large segment in society thinks it is better to be closer to #2 than #1.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on July 13, 2020, 12:48:46 PM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on July 13, 2020, 09:59:08 AM

I think at this point a decent segment of society just doesn't care.  Someone asked very early in this thread that we may have to ask how much of the economy do we give up to save lives.  I think a fair bit of people in the US can deal with 250,000 deaths as long as 1% of GDP is saved.

And this, my friends, is the downside of capitalism.

Human lives become a cost of doing business.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 13, 2020, 12:50:28 PM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on July 13, 2020, 12:41:05 PM

Not necessarily disagreeing but their argument goes like this....

1. If you try to ensure not a single person dies,  things are so restrictive that the economy goes into Great Depression territory

2. If you don't care at all how many die,  the economy gets hit but not as bad as #1.

It appears that a large segment in society thinks it is better to be closer to #2 than #1.

Getting drawn into this hyperbole is actually the failure in and of itself. 

No country that navigated their initial peak successfully thought along the lines of these vectors.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on July 13, 2020, 01:19:44 PM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on July 13, 2020, 12:41:05 PM

Not necessarily disagreeing but their argument goes like this....

1. If you try to ensure not a single person dies,  things are so restrictive that the economy goes into Great Depression territory

2. If you don't care at all how many die,  the economy gets hit but not as bad as #1.

It appears that a large segment in society thinks it is better to be closer to #2 than #1.

These are both false choices and have been from the start.
Countries that have enacted strict measures to protect lives have not spiraled into Great Depression territory. Countries that have taken laissez faire approaches haven't seen their economies significantly less impacted than their neighbors with stricter lockdowns.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 13, 2020, 01:35:54 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on July 13, 2020, 01:19:44 PM

These are both false choices and have been from the start.
Countries that have enacted strict measures to protect lives have not spiraled into Great Depression territory. Countries that have taken laissez faire approaches haven't seen their economies significantly less impacted than their neighbors with stricter lockdowns.

Correct.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/business/sweden-economy-coronavirus.html

Ever since the coronavirus emerged in Europe, Sweden has captured international attention by conducting an unorthodox, open-air experiment. It has allowed the world to examine what happens in a pandemic when a government allows life to carry on largely unhindered.

This is what has happened: Not only have thousands more people died than in neighboring countries that imposed lockdowns, but Sweden’s economy has fared little better.

“They literally gained nothing,” said Jacob F. Kirkegaard, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics in Washington. “It’s a self-inflicted wound, and they have no economic gains.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on July 13, 2020, 01:57:32 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on July 13, 2020, 01:19:44 PM

These are both false choices and have been from the start.
Countries that have enacted strict measures to protect lives have not spiraled into Great Depression territory. Countries that have taken laissez faire approaches haven't seen their economies significantly less impacted than their neighbors with stricter lockdowns.

I have probably have not stated their arguments concisely or correctly as I should.  Bottom line it seems like people are choosing between economy versus lives at this point.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 13, 2020, 02:09:46 PM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on July 13, 2020, 01:57:32 PM

I have probably have not stated their arguments concisely or correctly as I should.  Bottom line it seems like people are choosing between economy versus lives at this point.

I think your perception is right.  What folks are pointing out was that those were false choices from the beginning.  You can have lower levels of death and an improved economic outcome by controlling the virus.  Many countries are proving that in Asia today.  You can have higher levels of death and equal hit to economy...Sweden proved that.
 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 13, 2020, 03:26:16 PM

California becomes the first state to head back toward stay-at-home mode. Not totally there yet, but with the broader restrictions in counties that make up 80% of the population, they're awfully close.

Amid surging cases, California imposes a sweeping rollback of its reopening plans

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/13/world/coronavirus-updates.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage#link-1acfaa7f

With cases surging in California, Gov. Gavin Newsom announced one of the most sweeping rollbacks of any state’s reopening plans, saying Monday that he would move to close indoor operations statewide for restaurants, wineries, movie theaters, zoos and card rooms, and bars would be forced to close all operations.

And the governor said that in at least 30 of the hardest counties, business would be forced to close indoor operations for fitness centers, places of worship, non-critical offices, hair salons and barbershops and malls. Roughly 80 percent of the state’s population lives in the affected counties, Mr. Newsom said.

---------------

So essentially back to essential services only for the vast majority of California's population.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on July 13, 2020, 05:02:27 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on July 13, 2020, 03:26:16 PM

California becomes the first state to head back toward stay-at-home mode. Not totally there yet, but with the broader restrictions in counties that make up 80% of the population, they're awfully close.

Amid surging cases, California imposes a sweeping rollback of its reopening plans

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/13/world/coronavirus-updates.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage#link-1acfaa7f

With cases surging in California, Gov. Gavin Newsom announced one of the most sweeping rollbacks of any state’s reopening plans, saying Monday that he would move to close indoor operations statewide for restaurants, wineries, movie theaters, zoos and card rooms, and bars would be forced to close all operations.

And the governor said that in at least 30 of the hardest counties, business would be forced to close indoor operations for fitness centers, places of worship, non-critical offices, hair salons and barbershops and malls. Roughly 80 percent of the state’s population lives in the affected counties, Mr. Newsom said.

---------------

So essentially back to essential services only for the vast majority of California's population.

The designation of who/what is "essential" and what isn't, is a joke.

That said, we should be paying essential workers like they're essential. Not barely above poverty.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on July 13, 2020, 06:28:58 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on July 13, 2020, 05:02:27 PM

The designation of who/what is "essential" and what isn't, is a joke.

That said, we should be paying essential workers like they're essential. Not barely above poverty.

Yeah, it's been fun to see some businesses complain about not being able to hire people because unemployment is too generous.
Apparently paying people $15 an hour to do "essential" work during a pandemic is beyond the pale.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 13, 2020, 06:57:21 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on July 13, 2020, 06:28:58 PM

Yeah, it's been fun to see some businesses complain about not being able to hire people because unemployment is too generous.
Apparently paying people $15 an hour to do "essential" work during a pandemic is beyond the pale.

I don't get that. The increased unemployment is for a limited time only.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on July 13, 2020, 08:06:51 PM

Quote from: Jockey on July 13, 2020, 06:57:21 PM

I don't get that. The increased unemployment is for a limited time only.

Still should be indexed by area. New York City versus rural Montana should prob not be getting the same set amount per week. Makes no sense. People near minimum wage in NYC have trouble paying rent whilst that set amount for Montana is too much for their expenses.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 13, 2020, 08:32:09 PM

This is amazing and frightening all at the same time. 

https://onezero.medium.com/what-miniature-lab-grown-brains-reveal-about-the-effects-of-covid-19-e73b7c1b84e9 (https://onezero.medium.com/what-miniature-lab-grown-brains-reveal-about-the-effects-of-covid-19-e73b7c1b84e9)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 13, 2020, 08:34:09 PM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on July 13, 2020, 08:06:51 PM

Still should be indexed by area. New York City versus rural Montana should prob not be getting the same set amount per week. Makes no sense. People near minimum wage in NYC have trouble paying rent whilst that set amount for Montana is too much for their expenses.

It was just a short term thing. No biggie really.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on July 13, 2020, 08:36:48 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 13, 2020, 08:34:09 PM

It was just a short term thing. No biggie really.

Agreed.  Though if another round of unemployment additional benefits is passed I do believe indexing is the way to go.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 13, 2020, 08:44:21 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 13, 2020, 08:32:09 PM

This is amazing and frightening all at the same time. 

https://onezero.medium.com/what-miniature-lab-grown-brains-reveal-about-the-effects-of-covid-19-e73b7c1b84e9 (https://onezero.medium.com/what-miniature-lab-grown-brains-reveal-about-the-effects-of-covid-19-e73b7c1b84e9)

The horror show gets worse almost daily.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on July 13, 2020, 10:11:33 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 13, 2020, 08:32:09 PM

This is amazing and frightening all at the same time. 

https://onezero.medium.com/what-miniature-lab-grown-brains-reveal-about-the-effects-of-covid-19-e73b7c1b84e9 (https://onezero.medium.com/what-miniature-lab-grown-brains-reveal-about-the-effects-of-covid-19-e73b7c1b84e9)

A lot of this is somewhat expected. The ACE2 receptor is quite seriously implicated in almost every serious disease manifestation, heart disease, blood pressure, diabetes, obesity, neurological issues (Alzheimers), clotting disorders, inflammation, and many others. In all cases it is beneficial to avoid or remediate these issues.

When SARS-CoV2 infects these cells it induces shedding of the ACE2 receptor and modifies the ACE/ACE2 ratio leading to a loss of protection by ACE2 (ACE is pro-inflammatory; ACE2 counteracts it). So all major organs go into a  significant pro-stress, pro-inflammatory state, heightened clotting, inflammation of the heart, lungs, brain, and kidneys. Basically, everything goes down the tubes.

Just a nasty disease. And it doesn't help that we do not really know much about how ACE2 works, we just know all the things it protects against and how not having a good ACE2/ACE ratio can lead to poor outcomes.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 14, 2020, 08:54:35 AM

Quote from: forgetful on July 13, 2020, 10:11:33 PM

A lot of this is somewhat expected. The ACE2 receptor is quite seriously implicated in almost every serious disease manifestation, heart disease, blood pressure, diabetes, obesity, neurological issues (Alzheimers), clotting disorders, inflammation, and many others. In all cases it is beneficial to avoid or remediate these issues.

When SARS-CoV2 infects these cells it induces shedding of the ACE2 receptor and modifies the ACE/ACE2 ratio leading to a loss of protection by ACE2 (ACE is pro-inflammatory; ACE2 counteracts it). So all major organs go into a  significant pro-stress, pro-inflammatory state, heightened clotting, inflammation of the heart, lungs, brain, and kidneys. Basically, everything goes down the tubes.

Just a nasty disease. And it doesn't help that we do not really know much about how ACE2 works, we just know all the things it protects against and how not having a good ACE2/ACE ratio can lead to poor outcomes.

Very informative forgetful.

Personally the growing and infecting tiny brains part of the article was the crazy part for me.  But the part you key in on is certainly more important.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on July 14, 2020, 09:02:49 AM

Mississippi hasn't exactly been one of the smarter states so far, but credit to the governor for this Twitter thread last night shooting down the idea that we can solve this through herd immunity.

Tate Reeves
@tatereeves
Let’s talk about herd immunity. I’ve listened to some people argue that the rapid spread of cases is a good thing, and we need to reach herd immunity in Mississippi and elsewhere to survive. I’m not a health care expert by any means, but I am a math guy. And I have thoughts:

The experts say we need 70-80% of the population to get COVID-19 to achieve herd immunity. Let’s assume they’re wrong (it’s certainly possible, they have been before.) Let’s assume they’re being way overly cautious and we actually only need 40% infection for herd immunity.

In Mississippi, our population is 3 million. We’ve had 36,680 cases so far.

We’d need 1.2 MILLION infections to achieve that hypothetical 40% threshold. (Remember, experts say it’s double that.)

On our worst day of new cases, we had just over 1,000. It has typically been between 700-900 during this most aggressive time.
To get to 40% infections, we’d need 3,187 new cases every day for a full year from today.
We would need to TRIPLE our worst day—every day—for a year.

I’m not one of these guys that immediately dismisses any idea that challenges the expert status quo talking points. I’m pretty skeptical by nature. That’s healthy. But herd immunity is not anything like a realistic solution in the short or mid-term. I wish it was.

Unless you’re willing to go without hospitals after a car wreck or heart attack, we need a different approach. Right now, despite mixed messages at the beginning, it seems like masks are the best bet. They’re a hell of a lot better than widespread shut downs. Please wear one!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 14, 2020, 09:59:44 AM

Agreed - credit to the MS governor for acknowledging the math (and implicitly the science), and clearly urging use of masks. Hopefully he follows this up by consistently wearing one in his public appearances and staying with the message.

And while I don’t harbor unrealistic hopes that Mississippi will suddenly become a leader in rollbacks or other aggressive measures, hopefully this means they will be in early follower of other states.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 14, 2020, 10:47:04 AM

Not a fan of Paul Krugman, but he nails it here.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/13/opinion/coronavirus-schools-bars.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

And I don't think people realize that this could get worse.  Much worse.  We are pinning our hopes on a vaccine by January, but that is by far not a guaranty.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on July 14, 2020, 10:55:30 AM

I think most states need a full 4-week shutdown. And I mean full, grocery stores being an exception.

After that reopen, but this time no bars, or inside seating at restaurants. Most other things can safely reopen with social distancing and masks.

If we do that now, we may be able to save some concept of school this fall.

What we can't afford is to go into fall/winter at all time high trending of cases.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 14, 2020, 11:01:35 AM

Quote from: forgetful on July 14, 2020, 10:55:30 AM

I think most states need a full 4-week shutdown. And I mean full, grocery stores being an exception.

After that reopen, but this time no bars, or inside seating at restaurants. Most other things can safely reopen with social distancing and masks.

If we do that now, we may be able to save some concept of school this fall.

What we can't afford is to go into fall/winter at all time high trending of cases.

And frankly this experiment has cost us a not insignificant amount of PPE, antiviral drugs, testing kits/supplies and delayed healthcare.  We need to be stockpiling at a time when we are depleting.

The fall is the real test.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 14, 2020, 11:04:19 AM

This by the way is why I was sympathetic toward Abbott.  Even now he is getting pushback. 

https://thehill.com/changing-america/resilience/smart-cities/507209-republican-committees-censure-texas-governor-over?fbclid=IwAR2ZLUxMdk5R-ynGn0uZQfGF0M5eBR2O0Gt-SUlrjW4ydANH22AlXcUQ9zk (https://thehill.com/changing-america/resilience/smart-cities/507209-republican-committees-censure-texas-governor-over?fbclid=IwAR2ZLUxMdk5R-ynGn0uZQfGF0M5eBR2O0Gt-SUlrjW4ydANH22AlXcUQ9zk)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 14, 2020, 11:10:02 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 14, 2020, 10:47:04 AM

Not a fan of Paul Krugman, but he nails it here.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/13/opinion/coronavirus-schools-bars.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

And I don't think people realize that this could get worse.  Much worse.  We are pinning our hopes on a vaccine by January, but that is by far not a guaranty.

One line says it all. “None of this had to happen”.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 14, 2020, 11:13:33 AM

Quote from: forgetful on July 14, 2020, 10:55:30 AM

What we can't afford is to go into fall/winter at all time high trending of cases.

My biggest fear. Combining a bad flu season with runaway Covid due to school re-opening

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on July 14, 2020, 11:28:45 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 14, 2020, 11:04:19 AM

This by the way is why I was sympathetic toward Abbott.  Even now he is getting pushback. 

https://thehill.com/changing-america/resilience/smart-cities/507209-republican-committees-censure-texas-governor-over?fbclid=IwAR2ZLUxMdk5R-ynGn0uZQfGF0M5eBR2O0Gt-SUlrjW4ydANH22AlXcUQ9zk (https://thehill.com/changing-america/resilience/smart-cities/507209-republican-committees-censure-texas-governor-over?fbclid=IwAR2ZLUxMdk5R-ynGn0uZQfGF0M5eBR2O0Gt-SUlrjW4ydANH22AlXcUQ9zk)

Don’t get me wrong, the federal response has been bad. I do wonder what things would have looked like with good leadership. We are so divided, I feel like if this happened 6 years ago, a decent portion would still be so entrenched against the other side, we would still struggle.

Granted, I still think we would be much better than today.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 14, 2020, 01:30:26 PM

Quote from: forgetful on July 14, 2020, 10:55:30 AM

I think most states need a full 4-week shutdown. And I mean full, grocery stores being an exception.

After that reopen, but this time no bars, or inside seating at restaurants. Most other things can safely reopen with social distancing and masks.

If we do that now, we may be able to save some concept of school this fall.

What we can't afford is to go into fall/winter at all time high trending of cases.

I agree we need a full shutdown, with a more sane definition of essential services.

I would still be surprised if that's enough to get us to in-person school since that's just a few weeks away, but at least we would be trying. And either way, it's the only way to keep this winter from turning into a nightmare nobody wants.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 14, 2020, 01:44:22 PM

You guys keep saying 'full' shutdown.  I don't know that is or isn't needed and you have to think about what is achievable. 

I can give you my personal experience.  CT was not a 'full' shutdown - never fully shut parks, beaches, golf courses, homecenters, dry cleaners, pickup restaurants and a host of manufacturing and other items.  We were able to get the epidemic under control and have slowly returned to normal.  There is generally a common spirit here on how to behave - movement of people crashed during the epidemic.  As an example, I can count on one hand how many unmasked people I have encountered since March in the local grocery store.

So I don't know the answer on the best way to reset these areas (or mine eventually i imagine).  We certainly need to cut back on the most risky of behavior and get people to comply willingly.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 14, 2020, 01:44:36 PM

Quote from: cheebs09 on July 14, 2020, 11:28:45 AM

Don’t get me wrong, the federal response has been bad. I do wonder what things would have looked like with good leadership. We are so divided, I feel like if this happened 6 years ago, a decent portion would still be so entrenched against the other side, we would still struggle.

Granted, I still think we would be much better than today.

It would look like where Connecticut is now. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 14, 2020, 01:50:15 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 14, 2020, 01:44:22 PM

You guys keep saying 'full' shutdown.  I don't know that is or isn't needed and you have to think about what is achievable. 

I can give you my personal experience.  CT was not a 'full' shutdown - never fully shut parks, beaches, golf courses, homecenters, dry cleaners, pickup restaurants and a host of manufacturing and other items.  We were able to get the epidemic under control and have slowly returned to normal.  There is generally a common spirit here on how to behave - movement of people crashed during the epidemic.  As an example, I can count on one hand how many unmasked people I have encountered since March in the local grocery store.

So I don't know the answer on the best way to reset these areas (or mine eventually i imagine).  We certainly need to cut back on the most risky of behavior and get people to comply willingly.

I can tell more people are back to work because after the 4th of July holiday I'm actually seeing traffic back-up again in spots that had not since early March.
Transmission rates are still dropping also and our Governor paused Phase 2 after seeing what is going on elsewhere.

Bars are not opened yet and the owners supported the Governor's pause to Phase 3 (where they would have opened) because the common reply was "I don't want my customers getting sick."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 14, 2020, 01:55:31 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 14, 2020, 01:50:15 PM

I can tell more people are back to work because after the 4th of July holiday I'm actually seeing traffic back-up again in spots that had not since early March.
Transmission rates are still dropping also and our Governor paused Phase 2 after seeing what is going on elsewhere.

Bars are not opened yet and the owners supported the Governor's pause to Phase 3 (where they would have opened) because the common reply was "I don't want my customers getting sick."

I agree and the business owners have been super creative on services and putting up protections because they want to make people feel good when in the store.

My fish monger is still doing very low capacity, full plexi and call-ins.  Restaurants still doing pick-up/cocktail service--one local place doing provisions (add on eggs, butter or milk).  Hair salon's pausing their opening a week to make sure they had enough PPE. 

It's inevitable we slip back at some point, but we have done what you said in the face of 1. George Floyd protests, 2. people coming back to work, 3. multiple 3-day weekend/outdoor holidays, 4. Reopening of outdoor and limited indoor dining and 5. tons of testing with <1% positive rate.

That is why all of this is so infuriating.  It's not normal, but its not like its rocket science.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on July 14, 2020, 02:50:26 PM

Kinda funny, but also kinda infuriating.

https://twitter.com/TheDailyShow/status/1283121838621700097

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 14, 2020, 02:51:01 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 14, 2020, 01:44:22 PM

You guys keep saying 'full' shutdown.  I don't know that is or isn't needed and you have to think about what is achievable. 

I can give you my personal experience.  CT was not a 'full' shutdown - never fully shut parks, beaches, golf courses, homecenters, dry cleaners, pickup restaurants and a host of manufacturing and other items.  We were able to get the epidemic under control and have slowly returned to normal.  There is generally a common spirit here on how to behave - movement of people crashed during the epidemic.  As an example, I can count on one hand how many unmasked people I have encountered since March in the local grocery store.

So I don't know the answer on the best way to reset these areas (or mine eventually i imagine).  We certainly need to cut back on the most risky of behavior and get people to comply willingly.

I don't know of many here who want a full shutdown. I think most here are in favor of exactly what you are saying and what you have consistently said from the beginning.

We KNOW how to put the brakes on this wildfire spread of the disease. The problem is that our leader is actually promoting the spread. He and some governors are promoting the spread of disease and death.

Some here don't want to hear that, but it is absolutely true. Mandatory masks, partial shutdowns and partial stay-at-home are the only way to get a true handle on this. trump is against all of these - consequently R governors in the south follow his lead and let their citizens die. If we had the leaders of both parties  - instead of just one - fully on board with mandatory masks - even while doing little else, the pandemic in the US would look vastly different.

Sadly, we won't have any national policy on covid until January 20 and by then portions of the country may look like a wasteland.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 14, 2020, 03:54:12 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 14, 2020, 01:44:22 PM

You guys keep saying 'full' shutdown.  I don't know that is or isn't needed and you have to think about what is achievable. 

I can give you my personal experience.  CT was not a 'full' shutdown - never fully shut parks, beaches, golf courses, homecenters, dry cleaners, pickup restaurants and a host of manufacturing and other items.  We were able to get the epidemic under control and have slowly returned to normal.  There is generally a common spirit here on how to behave - movement of people crashed during the epidemic.  As an example, I can count on one hand how many unmasked people I have encountered since March in the local grocery store.

So I don't know the answer on the best way to reset these areas (or mine eventually i imagine).  We certainly need to cut back on the most risky of behavior and get people to comply willingly.

Sorry - by 'full shutdown," I mean basically going back to where most states were a couple of months ago...with the only caveats that we would mandate masks when people go out and more carefully limit the list of 'essential activities'...and that we keep it in place until each state really gets the pandemic under control. Consequently, I would still allow public parks, beaches and golf courses, many manufacturing operations, restaurant carryouts and such.

We were basically on the right track back in April, but most states reopened WAY too soon, and are paying the price for that impatience. NY, CT and a few others were more patient and measured, and are seeing the benefits.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on July 14, 2020, 04:10:16 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 14, 2020, 01:44:22 PM

You guys keep saying 'full' shutdown.  I don't know that is or isn't needed and you have to think about what is achievable. 

I can give you my personal experience.  CT was not a 'full' shutdown - never fully shut parks, beaches, golf courses, homecenters, dry cleaners, pickup restaurants and a host of manufacturing and other items.  We were able to get the epidemic under control and have slowly returned to normal.  There is generally a common spirit here on how to behave - movement of people crashed during the epidemic.  As an example, I can count on one hand how many unmasked people I have encountered since March in the local grocery store.

So I don't know the answer on the best way to reset these areas (or mine eventually i imagine).  We certainly need to cut back on the most risky of behavior and get people to comply willingly.

When I say full shutdown, I am largely saying what places like CT did. Other states really never went there. They allowed employers to determine who was "essential". In some of these areas that meant many businesses just deemed most of their staff "essential". And businesses labeled themselves as "essential".

Some of those areas are particularly hard hit right now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 14, 2020, 04:25:08 PM

Quote from: forgetful on July 14, 2020, 04:10:16 PM

When I say full shutdown, I am largely saying what places like CT did. Other states really never went there. They allowed employers to determine who was "essential". In some of these areas that meant many businesses just deemed most of their staff "essential". And businesses labeled themselves as "essential".

Some of those areas are particularly hard hit right now.

Sounds like you and I are on the same page - basically back to before, but with more stringent limits on what constitutes an essential business or employee.

And masks for everyone who goes into an essential business, like a grocery store.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 14, 2020, 04:50:38 PM

White House is now going thru Dr. Fauci's entire career looking for errors he may have made so they can publicly destroy him.

They still have not reached their bottom. Just incredible lowlifes rersiding in the POTUS and VEEP offices.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on July 14, 2020, 05:26:38 PM

Quote from: forgetful on July 14, 2020, 04:10:16 PM

When I say full shutdown, I am largely saying what places like CT did. Other states really never went there. They allowed employers to determine who was "essential". In some of these areas that meant many businesses just deemed most of their staff "essential". And businesses labeled themselves as "essential".

Some of those areas are particularly hard hit right now.

So here is what is interesting to me. What do you do about a place like Ohio? You have the case explosions, but even assuming 2 week lags, hospitalizations and deaths aren’t following, both well below 21 day averages. Outside of a boilerplate “just wait 2 more weeks!!” response. What do you do with a state that has cases ramping without the “severe” cases or effects?  Whether this be from a weakened strain, less intense exposure, younger patients whatever.

Mandate masks and emphasize the isolating of at risk? And see where you go? I feel like full lockdown in that scenario is a tough sell. It’s totally merited and needed for places like FL or TX that are getting ripped up by their true first waves, but the others are more nuanced.

Also, unrelated, if I there is one thing I look forward to not hearing about ever again post COVID, it’s people trying to honestly use New Zealand as a comparative success to critique other countries response. The US could have Fauci with unilateral unchecked power to dictate COVID response and it would be a stupid flawed comparison

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 14, 2020, 06:20:10 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on July 14, 2020, 05:26:38 PM

So here is what is interesting to me. What do you do about a place like Ohio? You have the case explosions, but even assuming 2 week lags, hospitalizations and deaths aren’t following, both well below 21 day averages. Outside of a boilerplate “just wait 2 more weeks!!” response. What do you do with a state that has cases ramping without the “severe” cases or effects?  Whether this be from a weakened strain, less intense exposure, younger patients whatever.

I would let the data guide the response.  What is their contact tracing saying.  Family events, frat parties, bars.  Then use public health communication or action if needed to reduce the activity.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 14, 2020, 07:37:18 PM

Quote from: forgetful on July 14, 2020, 10:55:30 AM

I think most states need a full 4-week shutdown. And I mean full, grocery stores being an exception.

After that reopen, but this time no bars, or inside seating at restaurants. Most other things can safely reopen with social distancing and masks.

If we do that now, we may be able to save some concept of school this fall.

What we can't afford is to go into fall/winter at all time high trending of cases.

Hey, that was my idea!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 14, 2020, 08:10:47 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 14, 2020, 06:20:10 PM

I would let the data guide the response.  What is their contact tracing saying.  Family events, frat parties, bars.  Then use public health communication or action if needed to reduce the activity.

Sounds like a good idea, but....

trump just ordered hospitals to bypass CDC and send data to White House. Keeps getting worse, bordering on criminal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on July 14, 2020, 08:11:36 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on July 14, 2020, 05:26:38 PM

So here is what is interesting to me. What do you do about a place like Ohio? You have the case explosions, but even assuming 2 week lags, hospitalizations and deaths aren’t following, both well below 21 day averages. Outside of a boilerplate “just wait 2 more weeks!!” response. What do you do with a state that has cases ramping without the “severe” cases or effects?  Whether this be from a weakened strain, less intense exposure, younger patients whatever.

Mandate masks and emphasize the isolating of at risk? And see where you go? I feel like full lockdown in that scenario is a tough sell. It’s totally merited and needed for places like FL or TX that are getting ripped up by their true first waves, but the others are more nuanced.

Also, unrelated, if I there is one thing I look forward to not hearing about ever again post COVID, it’s people trying to honestly use New Zealand as a comparative success to critique other countries response. The US could have Fauci with unilateral unchecked power to dictate COVID response and it would be a stupid flawed comparison

Frenns already hit at this. But there needs to be a comprehensive examination of the data. I said most states (many may be more reasonable wording). For Ohio. I would not shut down right now. Here are a few reasons. They currently have a 6.0% positivity rate, which means much of their increase in cases is indeed due to more robust testing and tracing. They are currently observing an Ro of around 1.2, compared to 2.0 back in march. Although 1.2 indicates cases will continue to grow, they can hold off and hope less restrictive measures can have an effect. Also, they have substantial excess capacity in hospitals. So although there is an increase in cases, right now that does not seem to be a problem. I'd closely monitor the positivity rate and Ro trend and see what happens. I'd think they can handle double the case load they are currently seeing, but need to nudge that Ro back below 1 over time.

Now other states, California, TX, Florida, Alabama, MS, Georgia, Arizona are in clear shut down mode.

A large group of other states like Louisiana, Wisconsin, South Carolina, North Carolina, and more, likely should shut down. They are teetering on the edge right now, and gambling that mask-measures will be enough to turn the corner. If they are wrong, it will get significantly worse. The safe bet is a 2-4 week shutdown.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on July 14, 2020, 09:17:56 PM

Quote from: forgetful on July 14, 2020, 08:11:36 PM

A large group of other states like Louisiana, Wisconsin, South Carolina, North Carolina, and more, likely should shut down. They are teetering on the edge right now, and gambling that mask-measures will be enough to turn the corner. If they are wrong, it will get significantly worse. The safe bet is a 2-4 week shutdown.

Now why would Wisconsin be in “should shut down” more than Ohio? Still very low in total cases, no meaningful spikes in hospitalizations to accompany rising case numbers, and deaths still tending downward. I believe I saw a positivity rate of between 6-7%. I couldn’t find the the R0, but it looks like another situation like Ohio where risings cases are not being followed by escalating hospitalizations and deaths. My buddy who basically vacillates between 2 hospitals in the MKE as a perfusionist said they have no meaningful buzz or pop in hospitalizations in either of them.

I totally agree about the shutdown needed for places in the SunBelt that are getting explosive. But I don’t see it for somewhere like Ohio or Wisconsin. Mask up and social distance, sure absolutely, but the curve is already still flat for everything but cases.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 14, 2020, 09:35:13 PM

Quote from: forgetful on July 14, 2020, 08:11:36 PM

A large group of other states like Louisiana, Wisconsin, South Carolina, North Carolina, and more, likely should shut down. They are teetering on the edge right now, and gambling that mask-measures will be enough to turn the corner. If they are wrong, it will get significantly worse. The safe bet is a 2-4 week shutdown.

The crowds at Kenosha beaches the last week of June were the biggest I've seen. Ever.

Crowds in the dells the 1st week of July were huge - no one had masks.

I'm only surprised the numbers here aren't higher. I guess lot of out-of-staters at Dells helps our numbers.


Kids, teens, young adults, older adults - all without masks.Americans are truly ignorant people.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on July 14, 2020, 11:38:38 PM

Wisconsin ✈️ New York, 14 day quarantine.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on July 14, 2020, 11:58:51 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on July 14, 2020, 09:17:56 PM

Now why would Wisconsin be in “should shut down” more than Ohio? Still very low in total cases, no meaningful spikes in hospitalizations to accompany rising case numbers, and deaths still tending downward. I believe I saw a positivity rate of between 6-7%. I couldn’t find the the R0, but it looks like another situation like Ohio where risings cases are not being followed by escalating hospitalizations and deaths. My buddy who basically vacillates between 2 hospitals in the MKE as a perfusionist said they have no meaningful buzz or pop in hospitalizations in either of them.

I totally agree about the shutdown needed for places in the SunBelt that are getting explosive. But I don’t see it for somewhere like Ohio or Wisconsin. Mask up and social distance, sure absolutely, but the curve is already still flat for everything but cases.

I'm concerned about the positive test rate in WI and the poor tracking/tracing. The two make estimates of R0 difficult and unreliable (likely under-estimate). The trend is very concerning, but there is a degree of uncertainty. That is why I say probably "should shut down" but recognize it is a difficult call. Now is a time where you can preempt issues, with a short shutdown then a prolonged stable opening. If things don't make a turn for the better soon, you will be looking at more significant issues, and either higher fatalities and life-long complications, and/or a more significant duration shut down.

My personal opinion is to be risk averse on letting COVID grow, so I would lean towards a short shutdown in WI at this point, but don't fault someone for taking the risk and seeing if less significant restrictions can turn the corner. Making the call is the hard part. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on July 15, 2020, 08:26:14 AM

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/14/us/politics/trump-cdc-coronavirus.html

Didn't see this posted anywhere.

This seems like a bad decision.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 15, 2020, 09:33:18 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on July 15, 2020, 08:26:14 AM

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/14/us/politics/trump-cdc-coronavirus.html

Didn't see this posted anywhere.

This seems like a bad decision.

I bet cases and death suddenly plummet. No reporting, no cases. Winning!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 15, 2020, 09:35:22 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on July 15, 2020, 08:26:14 AM

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/14/us/politics/trump-cdc-coronavirus.html

Didn't see this posted anywhere.

This seems like a bad decision.

Quote from: Jockey on July 14, 2020, 08:10:47 PM

Sounds like a good idea, but....

trump just ordered hospitals to bypass CDC and send data to White House. Keeps getting worse, bordering on criminal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 15, 2020, 09:56:45 AM

I am torn on this from what I have read.  Clearly there is a data problem at the CDC and Birx is extremely upset with the info an manner they are reporting.  Apparently hospitals are already reporting to the CDC and doing things again to other agencies just to satisfy all demands.  So there is a legitimate case to be made to change this. 

Alternatively, even prior republican appointed admins in the public health space feel like the tactic here is not right and they should fix the CDC instead of re-routing data/info.  Plus the trust levels are clearly at an all time low.

So even if we think the intention could be pure, it has the appearance of another ham-handed way to generate even more distrust than already exists.  Health Professionals all seem to know this is unusual and not right.  Yet no communication even trying to justify it.  Mind boggling.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 15, 2020, 07:14:09 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 15, 2020, 09:56:45 AM

I am torn on this from what I have read.  Clearly there is a data problem at the CDC and Birx is extremely upset with the info an manner they are reporting.  Apparently hospitals are already reporting to the CDC and doing things again to other agencies just to satisfy all demands.  So there is a legitimate case to be made to change this. 

Alternatively, even prior republican appointed admins in the public health space feel like the tactic here is not right and they should fix the CDC instead of re-routing data/info.  Plus the trust levels are clearly at an all time low.

So even if we think the intention could be pure, it has the appearance of another ham-handed way to generate even more distrust than already exists.  Health Professionals all seem to know this is unusual and not right.  Yet no communication even trying to justify it.  Mind boggling.

We know why the WH wants to control the data - and it is not to get the truth out to the public.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Cfollow on July 15, 2020, 08:57:34 PM

Please explain why this Canadian is so butt-hurt about the Covid-19 information coming from the administration?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 16, 2020, 12:03:09 PM

RNC scale being reduced.

Good.  Glad to see there is some sense of reason.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 16, 2020, 01:02:52 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on July 16, 2020, 12:03:09 PM

RNC scale being reduced.

Good.  Glad to see there is some sense of reason.

It has more to do with not wanting to be embarrassed again like Tulsa and New Hampshire.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 16, 2020, 01:03:24 PM

Deaths about to skyrocket.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 16, 2020, 01:09:57 PM

Quote from: Jockey on July 16, 2020, 01:03:24 PM

Deaths about to skyrocket.

Is this just a random prediction or is there an article or other factor prompting you to post this?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 16, 2020, 02:14:16 PM

Florida Anti-Mask Activists Give Free Meals to People Without Masks as Virus Cases Surge
https://www.newsweek.com/florida-anti-mask-activists-give-free-meals-people-without-masks-virus-cases-surge-1517361

Anti-mask advocates in Florida protested mandatory use of face coverings during an event inside a restaurant and bar near Orlando on Saturday.

Those responsible for the gathering offered free meals to 100 patrons who opted to dine at the establishment without wearing a face mask, Reuters reported. A video of the weekend's rally showed the central Florida restaurant and bar, 33 & Melt, served dozens of customers that day. No one in the video appears to be wearing a mask.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 16, 2020, 02:25:57 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on July 16, 2020, 12:03:09 PM

RNC scale being reduced.

Good.  Glad to see there is some sense of reason.

They moved from Charlotte because our governor would not guarantee a full arena. Nor would he guarantee that there would not be mandates for masks and social distancing.

So now the event will be in Jacksonville in a less-than-half-full arena, and a mask mandate is in effect.

And that's only if they end up holding an in-person event at all.

I was very much in favor of my city hosting the event because I wanted all that money coming into the community. But as soon as ridiculous demands began being made, it was a no-brainer to say, "See ya." No responsible governor would guarantee what they wanted, let alone 2 months in advance.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on July 16, 2020, 02:29:20 PM

At least they're being honest.

The Washington Post @washingtonpost

White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany on school reopenings:
"The science should not stand in the way of this.”
pic.twitter.com/w6H9DM0uTV

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 16, 2020, 03:08:57 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 16, 2020, 01:09:57 PM

Is this just a random prediction or is there an article or other factor prompting you to post this?

No. Based on data I saw in an article today that showed the pattern of increased cases, increased hospitalizations, and then what comes next. Follows same pattern that we saw in NY.

I will try to find the article and post the link.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 16, 2020, 03:24:08 PM

Kentucky AG Daniel Cameron filed a motion Wednesday to block all of Gov. Andy Beshear's past and future executive orders under the current COVID-19 state of emergency.

Working hard to kill Americans.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on July 16, 2020, 03:47:18 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on July 14, 2020, 07:37:18 PM

Hey, that was my idea!

It was a good one.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on July 16, 2020, 04:35:55 PM

NM

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 16, 2020, 05:19:04 PM

Quote from: Jockey on July 16, 2020, 03:08:57 PM

No. Based on data I saw in an article today that showed the pattern of increased cases, increased hospitalizations, and then what comes next. Follows same pattern that we saw in NY.

I will try to find the article and post the link.

Here's the link, Frenn's:

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/07/second-coronavirus-death-surge/614122/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 16, 2020, 07:41:14 PM

Quote from: Jockey on July 16, 2020, 05:19:04 PM

Here's the link, Frenn's:

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/07/second-coronavirus-death-surge/614122/

The new deaths in the west and particularly the south look troublesome.

And the case numbers continue to rise. Over 68,000 today, per Johns Hopkins.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on July 16, 2020, 08:35:58 PM

What’s to be made of these independent labs in Florida returning 100% results for full days of testing? To be fair there are some with 100% negative days as well but that’s a bit more likely given percentages.

Spoke to a former business partner earlier today who relocated to Florida. His son, daughter in law and grandson are staying with them. The 4 of them plus his wife went to get tested. Checked in, registered, waited 2-3 hours and left without being tested. They got notified later that all 5 of them were positive  :o

I know testing labs are overburdened, and the delays are atrocious, and I’m not calling conspiracy, but WTF

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on July 16, 2020, 08:52:58 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on July 16, 2020, 08:35:58 PM

What’s to be made of these independent labs in Florida returning 100% results for full days of testing? To be fair there are some with 100% negative days as well but that’s a bit more likely given percentages.

Spoke to a former business partner earlier today who relocated to Florida. His son, daughter in law and grandson are staying with them. The 4 of them plus his wife went to get tested. Checked in, registered, waited 2-3 hours and left without being tested. They got notified later that all 5 of them were positive  :o

I know testing labs are overburdened, and the delays are atrocious, and I’m not calling conspiracy, but WTF

Nice.  Looks like quality control is absolute crap.  Just what we need to get this thing under control.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 16, 2020, 09:37:12 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on July 16, 2020, 08:35:58 PM

What’s to be made of these independent labs in Florida returning 100% results for full days of testing? To be fair there are some with 100% negative days as well but that’s a bit more likely given percentages.

Makes no sense whatsoever. I theorize that they put Florida Man in charge of overseeing labs.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 16, 2020, 09:54:28 PM

I jumped the gun on today’s case numbers. Apparently the total now stands at more than 74,000 new cases today...several thousand higher than the previous record.

This is not moving in the right direction.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 16, 2020, 10:01:25 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on July 16, 2020, 09:54:28 PM

I jumped the gun on today’s case numbers. Apparently the total now stands at more than 74,000 new cases today...several thousand higher than the previous record.

This is not moving in the right direction.

Get those numbers from the CDC?

Ah,... oops.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on July 16, 2020, 11:37:40 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on July 16, 2020, 02:29:20 PM

At least they're being honest.

The Washington Post @washingtonpost

White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany on school reopenings:
"The science should not stand in the way of this.”
pic.twitter.com/w6H9DM0uTV

hey jim, you forgetting something here?

     "The science should not stand in the way of this, but as Dr. Scott Atlas said -- I thought this was a good quote, 'Of course, we can do it. Everyone else in the Western world, our peer nations are doing it. We are the outlier here,'" McEnany said, quoting the former Stanford Medical Center neurology chief.

"The science is very clear on this. For example, you look at the JAMA pediatric study of 46 pediatric hospitals in North America that said the risk of critical illness from COVID is far less for children than the seasonal flu. The science is on our side here. We encourage localities and states to just simply follow the science. Open our schools," she continued
 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on July 16, 2020, 11:45:48 PM

Quote from: Jockey on July 16, 2020, 01:03:24 PM

Deaths about to skyrocket.

mark this post.  what's skyrocket?  like new york's nursing homes?  you guys are a piece of work and then come up with a source-the atlantic?  might as well have found it in doc fauci's interview with motha jones.  this is all so new, but making predictions like global blah blah based on squat.  when they don't even come close to becoming true, you just move along to the next "expert's" catastrophic prediction.       

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on July 17, 2020, 12:09:14 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on July 16, 2020, 09:54:28 PM

I jumped the gun on today’s case numbers. Apparently the total now stands at more than 74,000 new cases today...several thousand higher than the previous record.

This is not moving in the right direction.

It's not significantly better, but that may be inflated by a couple thousand.  According to worldometers:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us

Quote

73,388 new cases and 963 new deaths in the United States
NOTE: Texas: Bexar County reported 5,501 cases today, 691 of which represent new cases, while 4,810 were backlogged, the result of "kinks in the communication process with the state, and that cases have been underreported in the past two weeks" according to reports citing San Antonio Mayor Ron Nirenberg. Some of the 21 reported deaths were also backlogged [source] Worldometer has redistributed the 4,810 backlogged cases over the previous 14 days based on the existing pattern of Bexar County daily case increases over the same period

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on July 17, 2020, 05:45:50 AM

https://abc7.com/health/cdc-director-if-everyone-wore-masks-us-could-control-covid-19/6320058/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 17, 2020, 06:56:03 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on July 16, 2020, 11:45:48 PM

mark this post.  what's skyrocket?  like new york's nursing homes?  you guys are a piece of work and then come up with a source-the atlantic?  might as well have found it in doc fauci's interview with motha jones.  this is all so new, but making predictions like global blah blah based on squat.  when they don't even come close to becoming true, you just move along to the next "expert's" catastrophic prediction.     

Out of curiosity, what do you consider to be a valid source? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on July 17, 2020, 07:24:42 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on July 17, 2020, 06:56:03 AM

Out of curiosity, what do you consider to be a valid source?

The guy who had a long planned fishing trip that coincidentally was during the day after his head writer was found out to be a racist and misogynistic bigot.

 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 17, 2020, 07:44:12 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on July 16, 2020, 11:37:40 PM

hey jim, you forgetting something here?

     "The science should not stand in the way of this, but as Dr. Scott Atlas said -- I thought this was a good quote, 'Of course, we can do it. Everyone else in the Western world, our peer nations are doing it. We are the outlier here,'" McEnany said, quoting the former Stanford Medical Center neurology chief.

"The science is very clear on this. For example, you look at the JAMA pediatric study of 46 pediatric hospitals in North America that said the risk of critical illness from COVID is far less for children than the seasonal flu. The science is on our side here. We encourage localities and states to just simply follow the science. Open our schools," she continued
 

It's not just about the kids, it's about who they spread it to.  For the one millionth time, I am telling this to a "health care professional."  FFS.

And the rest of the western world can open up the schools because they have done a better job than we have.  We decided a few weeks ago that we won, and that we needed to LIBERATE, and now look what's happening. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 17, 2020, 09:49:52 AM

Attached is risk of death based off latest CDC figures.

Of course death isn’t the only thing we need to worry about here, no one wants to get sick and there could be long term health issues as a result but let’s remember that this virus has become largely manageable with improved treatments and early detection.

Don’t want to lose site of the forest folks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 17, 2020, 09:55:45 AM

It's not just about death, it's about spread.

Look at Texas.  It has largely started with the young and has spread to the older and more vulnerable. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on July 17, 2020, 10:05:35 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 17, 2020, 09:55:45 AM

It's not just about death, it's about spread.

Look at Texas.  It has largely started with the young and has spread to the older and more vulnerable.

I laugh at FB posts I see where it says less than 1% of the population has gotten this so why are we doing this for such a small percentage. The part everyone forgets is that it’s “so far.” Until we manage the spread of this, there’s no end in sight, and those numbers just get bigger.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 17, 2020, 10:07:02 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on July 16, 2020, 11:37:40 PM

hey jim, you forgetting something here?

     "The science should not stand in the way of this, but as Dr. Scott Atlas said -- I thought this was a good quote, 'Of course, we can do it. Everyone else in the Western world, our peer nations are doing it. We are the outlier here,'" McEnany said, quoting the former Stanford Medical Center neurology chief.

"The science is very clear on this. For example, you look at the JAMA pediatric study of 46 pediatric hospitals in North America that said the risk of critical illness from COVID is far less for children than the seasonal flu. The science is on our side here. We encourage localities and states to just simply follow the science. Open our schools," she continued
 

Doubling down on stupid? Why of course you are.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on July 17, 2020, 10:08:23 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 17, 2020, 09:49:52 AM

Attached is risk of death based off latest CDC figures.

Of course death isn’t the only thing we need to worry about here, no one wants to get sick and there could be long term health issues as a result but let’s remember that this virus has become largely manageable with improved treatments and early detection.

Don’t want to lose site of the forest folks.

It's interesting to see how some become so immune to needless deaths of their fellow humans.
Every tiny percentage here represents thousands of your fellow Americans. That is the forest, folks. Try to be a little less flippant about it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 17, 2020, 10:10:21 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 17, 2020, 09:49:52 AM

Attached is risk of death based off latest CDC figures.

Of course death isn’t the only thing we need to worry about here, no one wants to get sick and there could be long term health issues as a result but let’s remember that this virus has become largely manageable with improved treatments and early detection.

Don’t want to lose site of the forest folks.

So is the plan for kids to go to school and stay there, in a bubble? Because if not, setting aside what you seem to deem as a minor inconvenience of tens of thousands dying and/or having serious organ damage, they are going to come back home each day and be disease vectors. See: Israel.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 17, 2020, 10:43:50 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on July 17, 2020, 10:08:23 AM

It's interesting to see how some become so immune to needless deaths of their fellow humans.
Every tiny percentage here represents thousands of your fellow Americans. That is the forest, folks. Try to be a little less flippant about it.

Why have you been so flippant about pneumonia, influenza, HAIs, sepsis, or other preventable deaths in previous years? 

I’m all for doing what we can (within reason) to limit any and all kinds of preventable death .  The “within reason” part is what we’re allowing to divide our country even further.  To suggest a COVID death in 2020 is more devastating then an influenza death in 2019 or in 2022 is what confuses me.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 17, 2020, 10:48:50 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on July 17, 2020, 10:10:21 AM

So is the plan for kids to go to school and stay there, in a bubble? Because if not, setting aside what you seem to deem as a minor inconvenience of tens of thousands dying and/or having serious organ damage, they are going to come back home each day and be disease vectors. See: Israel.

Contagious and communicable diseases have been around forever and they will continue to be around for infinity. 

We do everything we can to eliminate these preventable deaths within reason and what we determine as a country/local community to be within reason seems incredibly inconsistent when you bounce from virus to virus. 

Why is COVID deaths more important and thus require these draconian measures that we don’t usually even entertain when it comes to other preventable deaths?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 17, 2020, 10:55:11 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 17, 2020, 10:48:50 AM

Contagious and communicable diseases have been around forever and they will continue to be around for infinity. 

We do everything we can to eliminate these preventable deaths within reason and what we determine as a country/local community to be within reason seems incredibly inconsistent when you bounce from virus to virus. 

Why is COVID deaths more important and thus require these draconian measures that we don’t usually even entertain when it comes to other preventable deaths?

Uh....because this is a much more serious disease?

How many hospital ICUs are overrun with influenza patients?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on July 17, 2020, 11:00:59 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 17, 2020, 10:43:50 AM

Why have you been so flippant about pneumonia, influenza, HAIs, sepsis, or other preventable deaths in previous years? 

I’m all for doing what we can (within reason) to limit any and all kinds of preventable death .  The “within reason” part is what we’re allowing to divide our country even further.  To suggest a COVID death in 2020 is more devastating then an influenza death in 2019 or in 2022 is what confuses me.   

I haven't been flippant about any deaths, and who said a COVID death is more devastating?
That said, aren't we well past comparing this to the flu? Hasn't that been proven utterly asinine by now?

And what's your definition of "within reason?" Cause I don't see things like asking people to wear a mask, practice social distancing and avoid indoor gatherings where social distancing is not possible as unreasonable. Do you?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on July 17, 2020, 11:01:42 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 17, 2020, 09:49:52 AM

Attached is risk of death based off latest CDC figures.

Of course death isn’t the only thing we need to worry about here, no one wants to get sick and there could be long term health issues as a result but let’s remember that this virus has become largely manageable with improved treatments and early detection.

Don’t want to lose site of the forest folks.

Your numbers are misleading. It reports probability of dying each month, based on previous numbers that include quarantines. But, if you want to base things off those numbers, lets put those numbers in perspective. That means:

1.6M deaths for 75-84 age group in the next year.
1.2M deaths for 65-74 age group in the next year.
0.7M deaths for 55-64 age group in the next year.
0.32M deaths for 45-54 age group in the next year.
0.13M deaths for 35-44 age group in the next year.

For the other age groups you would be expecting between 10k-50k deaths in each age group too.

For a grand total of around 4M deaths in the next calendar year. Do you want to trust that source/representation still? I think you lost site of the trees and ran smack into a few of them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on July 17, 2020, 11:11:27 AM

I thought we had moved past the whole “it’s the flu” thing. I guess I was wrong.  ::)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on July 17, 2020, 11:13:27 AM

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/17/europe/spain-culls-mink-scli-intl/index.html

I think this article hints at where/how this virus emerged and spread. I think it most likely was infected secondary animals (so not bats directly) that were either infected by other animals, or even isolated individuals. Those animals were traded from the initial location of the virus, likely in Yunnan province, to the Wuhan area where they were likely breeding/raising infected animals.

Initial early viruses were likely due to breeding/raising animals, and people associated with that business (or buying from that business). Animals then sold to the wet market, leading to massive spread.

We'll never know the real path, but that is most probable, especially with how clear it is now that this can spread rapidly in some captive animal populations.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 17, 2020, 11:20:53 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 17, 2020, 10:48:50 AM

Why is COVID deaths more important and thus require these draconian measures that we don’t usually even entertain when it comes to other preventable deaths?

Still trying to make a comparison to flu? Really?

H1N1: 12,000-17,000 deaths over 12 months
Flu: ~30,000 deaths annually
COVID-19: 140,000+ deaths in 4 months. Est 2,200,000 deaths if no action taken (which, it seems, is now the official recommendation of the White House)

Does that answer your question why COVID is more important?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 17, 2020, 11:23:21 AM

Pace I won’t attack you for bringing forward mortality.  It’s important. 

The reality is though we’ve had to cancel elective surgeries in significant population centers and 900 people per day are dying.  In those areas the economy is still in shambles despite having less restrictions.  We are creating a level of spread that puts schools in jeopardy of opening and a scary situation in the fall when we need all these beds for the pesky flu. 

That’s my Forest. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 17, 2020, 11:38:26 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 17, 2020, 10:55:11 AM

Uh....because this is a much more serious disease?

How many hospital ICUs are overrun with influenza patients?

During the flu season it’s not unheard of.  I’m not comparing it to the flu as far as the contagion of it or the mortality of it.  It’s obviously a much more dangerous virus even though you’re comparing flu numbers (that has a vaccine) to a new novel virus that we still have more questions then answers too so not really a fair comparison.

I’m comparing the public reaction to a Covid infection or death to an annual influenza death.  If the goal of all this is to prevent as man deaths as possible no matter what the virus is called, should these Covid measures (that I largely agree with) be the new normal for every flu season is my question? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 17, 2020, 11:40:48 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on July 17, 2020, 11:00:59 AM

I haven't been flippant about any deaths, and who said a COVID death is more devastating?
That said, aren't we well past comparing this to the flu? Hasn't that been proven utterly asinine by now?

And what's your definition of "within reason?" Cause I don't see things like asking people to wear a mask, practice social distancing and avoid indoor gatherings where social distancing is not possible as unreasonable. Do you?

I don’t see those as unreasonable and practice all of the above myself.  If when the Covid vaccine becomes available it starts to take on the contagion and mortality profile of influenza are we all good and can go back to enjoying meals indoors, shaking hands, etc.?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 17, 2020, 11:41:04 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 17, 2020, 11:38:26 AM

During the flu season it’s not unheard of.  I’m not comparing it to the flu as far as the contagion of it or the mortality of it.  It’s obviously a much more dangerous virus even though you’re comparing flu numbers (that has a vaccine) to a new novel virus that we still have more questions then answers too so not really a fair comparison.

I’m comparing the public reaction to a Covid infection or death to an annual influenza death.  If the goal of all this is to prevent as man deaths as possible no matter what the virus is called, should these Covid measures (that I largely agree with) be the new normal for every flu season is my question? 

No.  As you point out, influenza is less deadly and we have a decent vacinne.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 17, 2020, 11:41:55 AM

Quote from: forgetful on July 17, 2020, 11:01:42 AM

Your numbers are misleading. It reports probability of dying each month, based on previous numbers that include quarantines. But, if you want to base things off those numbers, lets put those numbers in perspective. That means:

1.6M deaths for 75-84 age group in the next year.
1.2M deaths for 65-74 age group in the next year.
0.7M deaths for 55-64 age group in the next year.
0.32M deaths for 45-54 age group in the next year.
0.13M deaths for 35-44 age group in the next year.

For the other age groups you would be expecting between 10k-50k deaths in each age group too.

For a grand total of around 4M deaths in the next calendar year. Do you want to trust that source/representation still? I think you lost site of the trees and ran smack into a few of them.

So then the task force, local governors, and this administration is doing a helluva a job in mitigating this thing is what you’re saying?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 17, 2020, 11:45:00 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 17, 2020, 11:41:04 AM

No.  As you point out, influenza is less deadly and we have a decent vacinne.

But why wouldn’t this now be the new normal if we can take a flu season that might have 40,000 deaths down to maybe 10,000 deaths?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on July 17, 2020, 11:50:56 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 17, 2020, 11:45:00 AM

But why wouldn’t this now be the new normal if we can take a flu season that might have 40,000 deaths down to maybe 10,000 deaths?

Because when people have the flu they show symptoms and (if they aren’t idiots) are staying home from work and other public places, and because people can get a vaccine for the flu.

Honestly, how are we still trying to compare this to the flu? I just can’t fathom that at this point. It’s completely absurd.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 17, 2020, 11:51:38 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 17, 2020, 11:41:55 AM

So then the task force, local governors, and this administration is doing a helluva a job in mitigating this thing is what you’re saying?

Obviously not.  Compare what we're staring at to what the rest of the world is staring at, and you can objectively say that we have failed as a nation.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 17, 2020, 11:54:47 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 17, 2020, 11:45:00 AM

But why wouldn’t this now be the new normal if we can take a flu season that might have 40,000 deaths down to maybe 10,000 deaths?

Slippery slope arguments are logical fallacies.

I take your point, but 40k deaths per year with zero attempts at mitigation is one thing.

We are well past 140k in 4 months with lockdowns, social distancing, and mask wearing.

Without those measures... you do realize how bad this would be, right?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Its DJOver on July 17, 2020, 12:00:02 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 17, 2020, 11:45:00 AM

But why wouldn’t this now be the new normal if we can take a flu season that might have 40,000 deaths down to maybe 10,000 deaths?

In an ideal world yes, I would love to see the idea of getting a yearly flu shoot have the perception of almost being mandatory rather than the idea of it being a chore that it currently has.  I would love to see an increase in voluntary mask wearing every flu season rather than just a couple of additional posters reminding people to wash their hands.  I think a silver lining of the pandemic is that once it passes, the annual flu will be taken much more seriously and we will hopefully see a long term reduction in average annual deaths.  But none of that means that Covid should not be taken extremely seriously right now, or that as a nation, we aren't failing in our responses.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 17, 2020, 12:08:11 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 17, 2020, 11:23:21 AM

Pace I won’t attack you for bringing forward mortality.  It’s important. 

The reality is though we’ve had to cancel elective surgeries in significant population centers and 900 people per day are dying.  In those areas the economy is still in shambles despite having less restrictions.  We are creating a level of spread that puts schools in jeopardy of opening and a scary situation in the fall when we need all these beds for the pesky flu. 

That’s my Forest.

Thanks for the calm reasoned response, I mean that.

I personally struggle with the idea of accepting 30-40,000 annual influenza deaths combined with the possibility of 40-50,000 annual COVID deaths (once vaccine is available) as an acceptable new normal.  The mitigation steps put into place the last 6 months seem to be working fairly well when followed and I think we all need to seriously start considering what the future looks like as it relates to going to stores, eating at restaurants, going to ball games, visiting high risk loved ones in nursing homes, etc.

The bar has been set the last few months that it’s not just deaths we’re trying to prevent, it’s simply people getting sick.

Unless of course.  This feverish reaction and heavy breathing regarding Covid has more to do with it being an election year then it does about protecting our most vulnerable and our communities health as a whole.

I like to think we haven’t fallen that far as a country though.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 17, 2020, 12:13:27 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on July 17, 2020, 11:54:47 AM

Slippery slope arguments are logical fallacies.

I take your point, but 40k deaths per year with zero attempts at mitigation is one thing.

We are well past 140k in 4 months with lockdowns, social distancing, and mask wearing.

Without those measures... you do realize how bad this would be, right?

I agree without those measures this would be 10-20x’s worse which is why I believe the task force and the public has done a commendable job in trying to keep this thing at bay.

So 40K lives.  Lives of kids and folks much younger then 99% of the lives we’re losing to Covid aren't worth taking these reasonable steps of 14 day quarantine, work from home, 2 day a week school schedules, no fans in attendance at ball games, no in person faith services, etc...

Surprised to hear that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 17, 2020, 12:16:53 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on July 17, 2020, 11:51:38 AM

Obviously not.  Compare what we're staring at to what the rest of the world is staring at, and you can objectively say that we have failed as a nation.

And what is that, that we’ve objectively failed at as a country?  The lack of uniting together but rather having bickering partisan battles?  Mask wearing compliance?  Sneaking out during lock down?  Not washing hands?

We implemented all of the same strategies and recommendations as other countries aside from maybe our policies around nursing homes.

The lack of compliance by the public to those policies is our fault and our fault alone as a people. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 17, 2020, 12:22:35 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 17, 2020, 12:16:53 PM

And what is that, that we’ve objectively failed at as a country?  The lack of uniting together but rather having bickering partisan battles?  Mask wearing compliance?  Sneaking out during lock down?  Not washing hands?

We implemented all of the same strategies and recommendations as other countries aside from maybe our policies around nursing homes.

The lack of compliance by the public to those policies is our fault and our fault alone as a people.

I will agree that the public non compliance is a major problem.  What is the underlying reason?  Leadership without a unified message steeped in science.

You do see that a lot of the people who refuse to wear masks etc don't seem to be the most intelligent people, right?  The majority of these folks follow what the President and his circle has said, and what they do.  They don't listen to science, they listen to their master.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 17, 2020, 12:31:18 PM

Classic Scoop.

One guy makes an observation that is clearly not aligned with reality and a dozen Scoopers argue over and over and over to no avail.

Almost like Chicos never left.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 17, 2020, 12:33:46 PM

Deaths back up to 1000 yesterday. First time since early June.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 17, 2020, 12:33:50 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on July 17, 2020, 12:22:35 PM

I will agree that the public non compliance is a major problem.  What is the underlying reason?  Leadership without a unified message steeped in science.

You do see that a lot of the people who refuse to wear masks etc don't seem to be the most intelligent people, right?  The majority of these folks follow what the President and his circle has said, and what they do.  They don't listen to science, they listen to their master.

“....Don’t seem to be the most intelligent”.  Not sure that’s fair, either way I believe all along I think it was the responsibility of businesses and local leaders (mayors and govs) to mandate or not mandate masks.

The phases and timeline of Covid infections have been all over the map so to institute the mask requirement from a federal level I don’t think would have worked any better.  In reality it’s not until people become legitimately scared that the infection has taken hold in their community that the compliance to mask wearing goes up.  And those local decisions should be left for local business and elected leadership.

With that said, people are still going to do what they feel they have the right to do.  Right or wrong, that’s America.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on July 17, 2020, 12:34:06 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 17, 2020, 11:41:55 AM

So then the task force, local governors, and this administration is doing a helluva a job in mitigating this thing is what you’re saying?

No, I'm saying your graphic is a crap way of analyzing and representing the data, and if taken as fact does not support your assertions/stance whatsoever. But you already knew that.

The administration is doing nothing. We have no policy. The task force is being ignored, and some local governors are intentionally instituting policies that will lead to deaths.

The fact is, if what is currently going on in places like Hidalgo county, TX, where the only way you get a hospital bed is if someone else dies, and they are overrun with deaths, was happening in the wealthy and white communities, we'd have a massive response and nationwide shutdowns. Instead, we are just letting people die. Apparently, not all lives matter.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 17, 2020, 12:35:36 PM

Quote from: Jockey on July 17, 2020, 12:31:18 PM

Classic Scoop.

One guy makes an observation that is clearly not aligned with reality and a dozen Scoopers argue over and over and over to no avail.

Almost like Chicos never left.

I’m guessing you’re referring to myself as the one scooper who is in unhinged from reality.  What did I say that is unhinged?

I’m arguing to continue these mitigation practices forward to save as many lives as we can.  You disagree?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 17, 2020, 12:38:28 PM

Quote from: forgetful on July 17, 2020, 12:34:06 PM

No, I'm saying your graphic is a crap way of analyzing and representing the data, and if taken as fact does not support your assertions/stance whatsoever. But you already knew that.

The administration is doing nothing. We have no policy. The task force is being ignored, and some local governors are intentionally instituting policies that will lead to deaths.

The fact is, if what is currently going on in places like Hidalgo county, TX, where the only way you get a hospital bed is if someone else dies, and they are overrun with deaths, was happening in the wealthy and white communities, we'd have a massive response and nationwide shutdowns. Instead, we are just letting people die. Apparently, not all lives matter.

Not sure how mortality rate broken down by age is crap, but if you say so.

This is a race thing now?!?!  What is happening

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 17, 2020, 12:40:32 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 17, 2020, 12:33:50 PM

“....Don’t seem to be the most intelligent”.  Not sure that’s fair, either way I believe all along I think it was the responsibility of businesses and local leaders (mayors and govs) to mandate or not mandate masks.

The phases and timeline of Covid infections have been all over the map so to institute the mask requirement from a federal level I don’t think would have worked any better.  In reality it’s not until people become legitimately scared that the infection has taken hold in their community that the compliance to mask wearing goes up.  And those local decisions should be left for local business and elected leadership.

With that said, people are still going to do what they feel they have the right to do.  Right or wrong, that’s America.

Oh, it's fair.  It's much nicer than they deserve.  A federal mask requirement would have been extremely effective.  Trump supporters get their marching orders, and the 'others' do it because it actually makes sense.

As for local decisions, why is the Republican governor of Georgia suing the city of Atlanta over its mask requirement?  So much for local mandates, aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 17, 2020, 12:40:41 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 17, 2020, 12:08:11 PM

Thanks for the calm reasoned response, I mean that.

I personally struggle with the idea of accepting 30-40,000 annual influenza deaths combined with the possibility of 40-50,000 annual COVID deaths (once vaccine is available) as an acceptable new normal.  The mitigation steps put into place the last 6 months seem to be working fairly well when followed and I think we all need to seriously start considering what the future looks like as it relates to going to stores, eating at restaurants, going to ball games, visiting high risk loved ones in nursing homes, etc.

The bar has been set the last few months that it’s not just deaths we’re trying to prevent, it’s simply people getting sick.

Unless of course.  This feverish reaction and heavy breathing regarding Covid has more to do with it being an election year then it does about protecting our most vulnerable and our communities health as a whole.

I like to think we haven’t fallen that far as a country though.

What's acceptable isn't really a debate, its what happens.  I don't know what COVID looks like post vaccine...I suspect once one is here, people are going to return to something closer to what it was like.

If you think the reaction is an election year thing, you need to read deeper.  Look at Open Table reservations, look at hours worked, look at movement via phones...uncontrolled spread is a negative for all of those. 

Why do people care about how many are sick?  Because we can't actually measure the level of spread - so you are catching the visible/symptomatic (mostly).  So if cases go up that means prevalence in a community goes up.  Which means hospitalizations go up. Which means deaths goes up.  This is happening in all the areas that claimed it wouldn't. Also if my community has massive spread, I can't keep my plant open without disruption...My hospital isnt available to treat me (or I'm too scared to get treated)....etc

Of course it's peoples behaviors that are driving this.  They are confused as hell, half don't trust the government, the other half don't trust the media. 

Crisis 101 is communication.  Look at the countries that put this somewhat behind them.  Took it serious, consistent communication, measurable outcomes, no lies or painting an overly rosy picture of reality.  Then - measure the spread and react immediately if you see it.  This is a forest fire.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 17, 2020, 12:43:04 PM

Quote from: forgetful on July 17, 2020, 12:34:06 PM

No, I'm saying your graphic is a crap way of analyzing and representing the data, and if taken as fact does not support your assertions/stance whatsoever. But you already knew that.

The administration is doing nothing. We have no policy. The task force is being ignored, and some local governors are intentionally instituting policies that will lead to deaths.

The fact is, if what is currently going on in places like Hidalgo county, TX, where the only way you get a hospital bed is if someone else dies, and they are overrun with deaths, was happening in the wealthy and white communities, we'd have a massive response and nationwide shutdowns. Instead, we are just letting people die. Apparently, not all lives matter.

Gov’s are instituting policies that are going to purposely kill people?

Are you referring to the information in below article about Cuomo, Whitmer, Murphy, etc?

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/06/29/885018594/senators-call-for-investigation-of-states-nursing-home-policies-during-pandemic

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 17, 2020, 12:44:58 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on July 17, 2020, 12:40:32 PM

Oh, it's fair.  It's much nicer than they deserve.  A federal mask requirement would have been extremely effective.  Trump supporters get their marching orders, and the 'others' do it because it actually makes sense.

As for local decisions, why is the Republican governor of Georgia suing the city of Atlanta over its mask requirement?  So much for local mandates, aina?

I disagree with Kemp doing that and believe mayors should have first crack at controlling an outbreak in their communities.  Hopefully the lawsuit gets thrown out.

I think very highly of the Atlanta mayor, very impressive leadership from her during tough times for sure.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 17, 2020, 12:50:29 PM

Surprised to see the lack of support for these mitigation measures moving forward during every flu/Covid season.

I will continue to fight until preventable death from communicable diseases reach zero, I know that much.

I hope you’ll all find it in your heart to join me and understand that these personal sacrifices we are asking you to make are only for 4-6 months out of every year and if in so doing we save 10s of thousands of lives every year and hundreds of thousands of lives over time, it’ll be worth it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Its DJOver on July 17, 2020, 12:57:29 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 17, 2020, 12:50:29 PM

Surprised to see the lack of support for these mitigation measures moving forward during every flu/Covid season.

I will continue to fight until preventable death from communicable diseases reach zero, I know that much.

I hope you’ll all find it in your heart to join me and understand that these personal sacrifices we are asking you to make are only for 4-6 months out of every year and if in so doing we save 10s of thousands of lives every year and hundreds of thousands of lives over time, it’ll be worth it.

The difference, that I'm not sure that you're grasping, is that the mitigation measures for the seasonal flu would be much less strict than the mitigation measures that are currently needed for Covid.  I also think that getting the annual death numbers to zero is impossible, and you know that.  A better goal IMO should be reducing the number of deaths as much as possible without having a negative effect on the economy.  Increasing availability of flu vaccine, increase hand washing, increase voluntary mask wearing, increase in messaging about the dangers of seasonal flu can all be accomplished without negatively impacting the economy.  As for the overall message that you're trying to send, yes, small sacrifices can and should be made to reduce unnecessary deaths.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 17, 2020, 12:58:07 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 17, 2020, 12:50:29 PM

Surprised to see the lack of support for these mitigation measures moving forward during every flu/Covid season.

I will continue to fight until preventable death from communicable diseases reach zero, I know that much.

I hope you’ll all find it in your heart to join me and understand that these personal sacrifices we are asking you to make are only for 4-6 months out of every year and if in so doing we save 10s of thousands of lives every year and hundreds of thousands of lives over time, it’ll be worth it.

I'm not saying, "Let's not do those things because its the flu".  I'm saying that asking the public to do those things under normal flu seasons isn't going to happen if we can't convince everyone to wear masks during a global pandemic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on July 17, 2020, 01:02:22 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 17, 2020, 12:33:50 PM

“....Don’t seem to be the most intelligent”.  Not sure that’s fair, either way I believe all along I think it was the responsibility of businesses and local leaders (mayors and govs) to mandate or not mandate masks.

The phases and timeline of Covid infections have been all over the map so to institute the mask requirement from a federal level I don’t think would have worked any better.  In reality it’s not until people become legitimately scared that the infection has taken hold in their community that the compliance to mask wearing goes up.  And those local decisions should be left for local business and elected leadership.

With that said, people are still going to do what they feel they have the right to do.  Right or wrong, that’s America.

This.

Generally speaking, Americans are individual>collective

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 17, 2020, 01:26:16 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on July 17, 2020, 12:58:07 PM

I'm not saying, "Let's not do those things because its the flu".  I'm saying that asking the public to do those things under normal flu seasons isn't going to happen if we can't convince everyone to wear masks during a global pandemic.

I get all that.  It’s no longer flu season imo. Folks on Scoop have mentioned and seem confident that the Covid vaccine will not be 100% effective and there will be future Covid strains that will vary in potency of course.

We need to change our whole mindset that it’s not just flu season anymore but flu/Covid season and each will bring with it 40-50,000 annual deaths for a combined 100K Americans senselessly losing their lives on avg every year which terrifies me to think about.

Also, it appears Covid doesn’t have a season like the flu primarily does but rather it is equally contagious any month of the year so by no means am I suggesting these measures be put in place permanently moving forward, that’d be crazy.

But if we can’t pressure our local leaders that for the 5-6 month period (Nov-March) where Covid and influenza are running rampant through our communities to put proven preventative measures into place to save 10s of thousands of lives every year then those future administrations and local leaders will have blood on their hands!!!!  Folks, we need to follow the science here and quit accepting all these preventable deaths as ok.

My thoughts for the above flu/Covid time period of nov-March to save as many lives as possible:
     1) no indoor social gatherings of 50+ people.  That should allow for sports to go on uninterrupted just with no fans.
     2) Pull kids from the classroom.  Instead of having summers off I suggest we flip the school calendar on its head with 3 months during winter off instead to isolate the kids at home to protect our elderly and high risk populations.
      3) Mandatory mask wearing whether inside or not.
      4) church services all online
      5) Bars must close and restaurants only doing take out.
      6) Airline capacity 30% to allow for better socially distant flights.
      7) Concerts, plays, symphony’s and other type of entertainment is either done socially distanced outdoors with masks or need to pause for those 5-6 months.
      8) Nursing homes completely locked down.
      9) No hospital visitors
     10) If you do go on a winter vacation down south, beaches need to be monitored very closely.  Of things get out of hand, shut them down.

I think these 10 simple, yet proven steps will save so so soooo many lives and can’t fathom any rational argument against these measures.
     

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on July 17, 2020, 01:34:42 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 17, 2020, 09:49:52 AM

Of course death isn’t the only thing we need to worry about here, no one wants to get sick and there could be long term health issues as a result but let’s remember that this virus has become largely manageable with improved treatments and early detection.

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 17, 2020, 01:26:16 PM

We need to change our whole mindset that it’s not just flu season anymore but flu/Covid season and each will bring with it 40-50,000 annual deaths for a combined 100K Americans senselessly losing their lives on avg every year which terrifies me to think about.

[snip]

Folks, we need to follow the science here and quit accepting all these preventable deaths as ok.

Whoa - the whirlwind between those two posts is mind boggling. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on July 17, 2020, 01:49:19 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on July 17, 2020, 01:34:42 PM

Whoa - the whirlwind between those two posts is mind boggling.

Almost like it is disingenuous arguing for the sake of it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 17, 2020, 01:52:33 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on July 17, 2020, 01:34:42 PM

Whoa - the whirlwind between those two posts is mind boggling.  I feel like like I've met someone that likes to continually spin like this before...

You’d be wrong, I’ve never met you before but what you did just witness there was a personal revelation that after being told for the 750x that I’m wrong by my fellow scoopers, I finally started to challenge my own belief system and realized something that I once thought was impossible?!?!?  Maybe jockey, Pakuni, Goooo and the like...maybe they’re looking at this through the right lens and I’ve been way off on this thing  the whole time.

It was a Jerry McGuire moment and all of a sudden these bottled up feelings, thoughts, and ideas just started pouring out and the freedom I now feel with not being beholden to my master but rather free to think and act in the best interest of what science is telling us is something I’ve never experienced before.

Do I think my list of 10 preventative measures is absolutely asinine, you bet.  But it feels sooo good now to be on the right side of history and I look forward to working on this list for permeant implementation during flu/Covid season.

So while we haven’t formally met yet, I look forward to maybe meeting you down the road.   As long as it’s not indoors that is, and we’re 6 ft apart, while wearing masks, for less then 10 minutes and plexiglass between us of course (that last one is an obvious one i suppose).

Stay safe out there!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 17, 2020, 02:12:38 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 17, 2020, 12:33:50 PM

either way I believe all along I think it was the responsibility of businesses and local leaders (mayors and govs) to mandate or not mandate masks.

Ummm, no. Just no. You want 10's of thousands of people making different decisions? Rather than the one person that could have convinced his followers to do it. The absolute failure to lead, leading to a patchwork response, is why we are were we are today.

If it wasn't so tragic it would be hilarious: Trump would be cruising to re-election if he had handled this even semi-competently. Instead, he has made the wrong choice on an almost daily basis. First, ignore the virus and wish it would go away. Then, because Cuomo was getting such high praise, decide to personally handle the daily briefs and show the world what a scientific ignoramous you are. Have all the patience of a 3 tear old and insist everything must re-open against all scientific advice, thereby prolonging the mess of your own making. Give up on controlling the virus and now insist schools much re-open, which will further prolong the virus just in time for the election.

There is only one person that could have torpedoed Trump's chance of re-election. Everything he touches dies.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 17, 2020, 02:24:00 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on July 17, 2020, 02:12:38 PM

Ummm, no. Just no. You want 10's of thousands of people making different decisions? Rather than the one person that could have convinced his followers to do it. The absolute failure to lead, leading to a patchwork response, is why we are were we are today.

If it wasn't so tragic it would be hilarious: Trump would be cruising to re-election if he had handled this even semi-competently. Instead, he has made the wrong choice on an almost daily basis. First, ignore the virus and wish it would go away. Then, because Cuomo was getting such high praise, decide to personally handle the daily briefs and show the world what a scientific ignoramous you are. Have all the patience of a 3 tear old and insist everything must re-open against all scientific advice, thereby prolonging the mess of your own making. Give up on controlling the virus and now insist schools much re-open, which will further prolong the virus just in time for the election.

There is only one person that could have torpedoed Trump's chance of re-election. Everything he touches dies.

Are you with me on my “Do 10 to Save 10” campaign.

Let’s use the ineptitude of the federal response and make sure these same mistakes don’t happen next fall/winter.  The power for change lies with the people of America and while TSmith you might not have been the first person I expected to team up with in this new 10 for 10 initiative I’m going to need all the help I can find so let’s get this movement started!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on July 17, 2020, 02:49:25 PM

Florida Man. (ok, it's the governor) on his reasoning why he won't close Florida Gyms:

https://twitter.com/AnaCabrera/status/1284203797934419968?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 17, 2020, 03:23:13 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on July 17, 2020, 02:12:38 PM

Ummm, no. Just no. You want 10's of thousands of people making different decisions? Rather than the one person that could have convinced his followers to do it. The absolute failure to lead, leading to a patchwork response, is why we are were we are today.

If it wasn't so tragic it would be hilarious: Trump would be cruising to re-election if he had handled this even semi-competently. Instead, he has made the wrong choice on an almost daily basis. First, ignore the virus and wish it would go away. Then, because Cuomo was getting such high praise, decide to personally handle the daily briefs and show the world what a scientific ignoramous you are. Have all the patience of a 3 tear old and insist everything must re-open against all scientific advice, thereby prolonging the mess of your own making. Give up on controlling the virus and now insist schools much re-open, which will further prolong the virus just in time for the election.

There is only one person that could have torpedoed Trump's chance of re-election. Everything he touches dies.

The easiest thing for a president to do is to be a hero when a crisis occurs. Empathy, honesty, caring, gathering experts, etc. are no brained.

It takes an incredibly evil person to refuse to do any of these things. A president with even an average IQ would have already locked up re-election.

Instead we have a guy with zero empathy, a man who lies as easily as he breathes, a man who brags he knows more than anybody in the world. He has decided that lying and hiding and manipulating data are the ways to deal with this crisis.

A foolish, simple-minded man.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 17, 2020, 03:23:20 PM

Quote from: ZaLiN on July 17, 2020, 01:49:19 PM

Almost like it is disingenuous arguing for the sake of it.

Oh, 100%.  I'm just indulging him.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on July 17, 2020, 03:53:29 PM

Miami-Dade at 118% ICU capacity:
https://www.miamidade.gov/information/library/2020-07-17-new-normal-dashboard.pdf

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 17, 2020, 05:48:43 PM

Quote from: forgetful on July 17, 2020, 12:34:06 PM

The administration is doing nothing. We have no policy. The task force is being ignored, and some local governors are intentionally instituting policies that will lead to deaths.

Therein lies our problem in a nutshell.

The administration's non-response to the pandemic is horrific. And even worse, it takes credit when progress is made, but distances itself from - or outright denies - failures that are obvious to all. For their part, some governors have been doing their best with limited resources, while others have taken the administration's ignore and deny approach.

Put it all together, and our numbers are not the least bit surprising: 4% of the world's population, but 23% of the world's COVID deaths. There is no way you can spin that as 'success.'

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 17, 2020, 06:39:48 PM

I take no responsibility at all.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on July 17, 2020, 08:31:23 PM

Jamie, settle down.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 17, 2020, 09:53:16 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 17, 2020, 12:43:04 PM

Gov’s are instituting policies that are going to purposely kill people?

Are you referring to the information in below article about Cuomo, Whitmer, Murphy, etc?

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/06/29/885018594/senators-call-for-investigation-of-states-nursing-home-policies-during-pandemic

Crickets on this one huh forgetful?  Can only muster up that impeccable intellectual integrity of yours when in comes to criticizing political figures you disagree with.

The second it comes to acknowledging terrible mistakes by leaders within your own party it’s predictable silence.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on July 17, 2020, 11:29:10 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 17, 2020, 09:53:16 PM

Crickets on this one huh forgetful?  Can only muster up that impeccable intellectual integrity of yours when in comes to criticizing political figures you disagree with.

The second it comes to acknowledging terrible mistakes by leaders within your own party it’s predictable silence.

Some of us have crap to do besides replying to obvious trolls.

1. The policies you have been referring to have been discussed on here ad nauseam, when they were relevant, including by me.

2. There were federal policies stating that nursing home patients discharged from hospitals should be returned to their nursing homes, provided they could be properly cared for. These policies are still in effect nationwide, where nursing homes either still try to handle the patients in house, or accept them back, thereby increasing spread amongst the most vulnerable.

3. There used to be federal polices that held these care facilities liable for not providing proper care and protection in cases exactly like what has led to many of these deaths. These rules were revoked by the current administration by executive action.

So, I've addressed and discussed these issues before, and they are far grander than a political laundry list of democratic governors. The intellectual dishonesty is not examining the entire situations revolving decisions like this, and what factors and policies exist on a nationwide, and federal level. Have mistakes been made, yes, and I've addressed them previously.

Frankly, I have little desire to address anything from you further. So if I don't respond to your replies, it is because in my opinion, you've proven yourself a troll, itching for arguments not honest discussion. Engaging will simply devolve into absurdity, and cause nothing but frustration and futility. That benefits no one.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 18, 2020, 08:30:18 AM

Quote from: forgetful on July 17, 2020, 11:29:10 PM

Some of us have crap to do besides replying to obvious trolls.

1. The policies you have been referring to have been discussed on here ad nauseam, when they were relevant, including by me.

2. There were federal policies stating that nursing home patients discharged from hospitals should be returned to their nursing homes, provided they could be properly cared for. These policies are still in effect nationwide, where nursing homes either still try to handle the patients in house, or accept them back, thereby increasing spread amongst the most vulnerable.

3. There used to be federal polices that held these care facilities liable for not providing proper care and protection in cases exactly like what has led to many of these deaths. These rules were revoked by the current administration by executive action.

So, I've addressed and discussed these issues before, and they are far grander than a political laundry list of democratic governors. The intellectual dishonesty is not examining the entire situations revolving decisions like this, and what factors and policies exist on a nationwide, and federal level. Have mistakes been made, yes, and I've addressed them previously.

Frankly, I have little desire to address anything from you further. So if I don't respond to your replies, it is because in my opinion, you've proven yourself a troll, itching for arguments not honest discussion. Engaging will simply devolve into absurdity, and cause nothing but frustration and futility. That benefits no one.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/07/08/nyregion/nursing-homes-deaths-coronavirus.amp.html

“.....a STATE directive.....” 

So let’s have an honest discussion about whether this was a state or federal order.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 18, 2020, 08:49:43 AM

Quote from: forgetful on July 17, 2020, 11:29:10 PM

Some of us have crap to do besides replying to obvious trolls.

1. The policies you have been referring to have been discussed on here ad nauseam, when they were relevant, including by me.

2. There were federal policies stating that nursing home patients discharged from hospitals should be returned to their nursing homes, provided they could be properly cared for. These policies are still in effect nationwide, where nursing homes either still try to handle the patients in house, or accept them back, thereby increasing spread amongst the most vulnerable.

3. There used to be federal polices that held these care facilities liable for not providing proper care and protection in cases exactly like what has led to many of these deaths. These rules were revoked by the current administration by executive action.

So, I've addressed and discussed these issues before, and they are far grander than a political laundry list of democratic governors. The intellectual dishonesty is not examining the entire situations revolving decisions like this, and what factors and policies exist on a nationwide, and federal level. Have mistakes been made, yes, and I've addressed them previously.

Frankly, I have little desire to address anything from you further. So if I don't respond to your replies, it is because in my opinion, you've proven yourself a troll, itching for arguments not honest discussion. Engaging will simply devolve into absurdity, and cause nothing but frustration and futility. That benefits no one.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/07/14/jake-tapper-gov-andrew-cuomo-covid-19-poster-gupta-lead-sot-vpx.cnn

There is an honest discussion to be had about the effects of this state order. 

To ignore an unarguable fact that this was a state directive that has since been rescinded, by the governor just proves you’re nothing more then a partisan hack and not interested in honest discussions.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 18, 2020, 08:51:48 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 17, 2020, 09:53:16 PM

Crickets on this one huh forgetful?  Can only muster up that impeccable intellectual integrity of yours when in comes to criticizing political figures you disagree with.

The second it comes to acknowledging terrible mistakes by leaders within your own party it’s predictable silence.

So what do you want?  Someone here to say mistakes were made by Democratic leaders?  No kidding.  Expecting perfection isn't reasonable.  So now you can take your 'gotcha!' moment and run.

All the while failing to acknowledge that we have a massive problem at the federal level, state level, and local level with CONTINUING stupidity from Republican officials.

Just say it.  Trump screwed this up, and is continuing to screw this up.  Brian Kemp is choosing death over life.  But, you, rocket, ners, etc. can't bring yourselves to do it.  It's some sort of taboo with you lunatics.  Like if you admit that 'your guy' is a abject failure of a president there is a bomb in your house that detonates.  It's that insane.  Why do you continue to defend the indefensible?  If Hillary or Biden was elected and acted like this I would be calling them the worst president ever as well.  But that really cuts to the core of the Republican party.  You're all a bunch of dimwit zombies that can't think objectively for themselves.

And its posts like the one I quoted is why we think you're delusional.  I'm happy to bash incompetent leadership no matter the target.  But you can't say the same.  The worst thing I've heard most of the Republicans, who I know, say about Trump is that they'd wish he's stop tweeting so much.  But then that is quickly followed up with, "but the economy is doing great"... or some other excuse for his behavior.  Why????  He doesn't need your defense.  As if by saying it, you're some sort of traitor.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on July 18, 2020, 08:52:16 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 18, 2020, 08:30:18 AM

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/07/08/nyregion/nursing-homes-deaths-coronavirus.amp.html

“.....a STATE directive.....” 

So let’s have an honest discussion about whether this was a state or federal order.

(https://i.imgur.com/3h5we.gif)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 18, 2020, 09:01:54 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on July 18, 2020, 08:51:48 AM

So what do you want?  Someone here to say mistakes were made by Democratic leaders?  No kidding.  Expecting perfection isn't reasonable.  So now you can take your 'gotcha!' moment and run.

All the while failing to acknowledge that we have a massive problem at the federal level, state level, and local level with CONTINUING stupidity from Republican officials.

Just say it.  Trump screwed this up, and is continuing to screw this up.  Brian Kemp is choosing death over life.  But, you, rocket, ners, etc. can't bring yourselves to do it.  It's some sort of taboo with you lunatics.  Like if you admit that 'your guy' is a abject failure of a president there is a bomb in your house that detonates.  It's that insane.  Why do you continue to defend the indefensible?  If Hillary or Biden was elected and acted like this I would be calling them the worst president ever as well.  But that really cuts to the core of the Republican party.  You're all a bunch of dimwit zombies that can't think objectively for themselves.

And its posts like the one I quoted is why we think you're delusional.  I'm happy to bash incompetent leadership no matter the target.  But you can't say the same.  The worst thing I've heard most of the Republicans, who I know, say about Trump is that they'd wish he's stop tweeting so much.  But then that is quickly followed up with, "but the economy is doing great"... or some other excuse for his behavior.  Why????  He doesn't need your defense.  As if by saying it, you're some sort of traitor.

Wasn’t a gotcha question.  A response to forgetful saying something about policies killing people without pointing to a specific policy so I assumed he was talking about the nursing home stuff.

I haven’t seen any other specific policy that has been so controversial as that one which is why I brought it up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 18, 2020, 09:07:26 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on July 18, 2020, 08:51:48 AM

So what do you want?  Someone here to say mistakes were made by Democratic leaders?  No kidding.  Expecting perfection isn't reasonable.  So now you can take your 'gotcha!' moment and run.

All the while failing to acknowledge that we have a massive problem at the federal level, state level, and local level with CONTINUING stupidity from Republican officials.

Just say it.  Trump screwed this up, and is continuing to screw this up.  Brian Kemp is choosing death over life.  But, you, rocket, ners, etc. can't bring yourselves to do it.  It's some sort of taboo with you lunatics.  Like if you admit that 'your guy' is a abject failure of a president there is a bomb in your house that detonates.  It's that insane.  Why do you continue to defend the indefensible?  If Hillary or Biden was elected and acted like this I would be calling them the worst president ever as well.  But that really cuts to the core of the Republican party.  You're all a bunch of dimwit zombies that can't think objectively for themselves.

And its posts like the one I quoted is why we think you're delusional.  I'm happy to bash incompetent leadership no matter the target.  But you can't say the same.  The worst thing I've heard most of the Republicans, who I know, say about Trump is that they'd wish he's stop tweeting so much.  But then that is quickly followed up with, "but the economy is doing great"... or some other excuse for his behavior.  Why????  He doesn't need your defense.  As if by saying it, you're some sort of traitor.

It was less then 24 hours ago I was agreeing with you that Kemp was being a knucklehead and I praised the mayor of Atlanta’s response and composure to a tough couple months for her city.

I’ve criticized Trump when’s he deserved criticism.  Just doesn’t deserve it often so it’s hard to come up with examples.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 18, 2020, 09:27:58 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 18, 2020, 09:07:26 AM

It was less then 24 hours ago I was agreeing with you that Kemp was being a knucklehead and I praised the mayor of Atlanta’s response and composure to a tough couple months for her city.

I’ve criticized Trump when’s he deserved criticism.  Just doesn’t deserve it often so it’s hard to come up with examples.

Obviously we don't have to agree all the time, but I'm going to strongly disagree with your last sentence.  He has turned us into a laughingstock internationally, and it just gets worse every day.  We move so quickly from one scandal to the next that even a few days seems to feel like an eternity.  I will give the Trump administration credit for one thing, they are masters at distraction.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 18, 2020, 10:12:52 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on July 18, 2020, 09:27:58 AM

Obviously we don't have to agree all the time, but I'm going to strongly disagree with your last sentence.  He has turned us into a laughingstock internationally, and it just gets worse every day.  We move so quickly from one scandal to the next that even a few days seems to feel like an eternity.  I will give the Trump administration credit for one thing, they are masters at distraction.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.15.20154294v1

Interesting (non peer reviewed 😯) study suggesting possible herd immunity with only 10-20% of population getting the virus.

May suggest why essentially all of the global hot spots that got hit hard in the first wave are all now doing amazingly well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 18, 2020, 10:36:52 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 18, 2020, 10:12:52 AM

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.15.20154294v1

Interesting (non peer reviewed 😯) study suggesting possible herd immunity with only 10-20% of population getting the virus.

May suggest why essentially all of the global hot spots that got hit hard in the first wave are all now doing amazingly well.

No. Stop.

It’s because they locked down thoroughly and opened responsibly. Stop trying to find reasons why the obvious answer isn’t the actual answer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 18, 2020, 11:15:00 AM

Coronavirus temporarily shutters Florida state EOC as peak hurricane season approaches

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20200717/coronavirus-temporarily-shutters-state-eoc-as-peak-hurricane-season-approaches

Emergency managers are trying to keep key staff healthy as Covid-19 rages into the peak of hurricane season.

A spate of coronavirus cases at Florida’s emergency operations center has forced the building to temporarily close and focused attention on how emergency offices will navigate Covid-19 as peak hurricane season approaches.

Like many emergency managers, Palm Beach County’s Bill Johnson thought the first wave of coronavirus cases would be waning before mid-August, the start of the busy storm season when the tropical Atlantic musters its worst.

Instead, the pandemic has raged on with Johnson now making plans on how to handle a hurricane while keeping key employees healthy and shelters virus-free.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on July 18, 2020, 11:28:50 AM

Jamie just cannot quit Scoop

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Big Papi on July 18, 2020, 11:31:49 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 18, 2020, 10:36:52 AM

No. Stop.

It’s because they locked down thoroughly and opened responsibly. Stop trying to find reasons why the obvious answer isn’t the actual answer.

Can we actually say and prove that wearing masks is 100% the reason and any type of potential herd immunity is at 0%?  I don't think so.  I think there is some sort of immunity and that those areas that have been hit the hardest are fostering some type of herd immunity, at least for the short term.

I wear a mask and believe it helps in slowing down the transmission but its starting to sound like there might be some type of herd immunity forming as well.  I know that they are finding out that antibodies are decreasing or gone in asymptomatic and mild patients after a few months but no one has said there is no immunity.  T-cells are shaping up to be prominent in fighting off infection and there are encouraging information that there are those who never tested positive for COVID-19 that have T-cells that help fight the virus.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/t-cells-found-covid-19-patients-bode-well-long-term-immunity

Can't the answer be both?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 18, 2020, 11:40:23 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 18, 2020, 10:36:52 AM

No. Stop.

It’s because they locked down thoroughly and opened responsibly. Stop trying to find reasons why the obvious answer isn’t the actual answer.

Oxford epidemiologists think there is something else to it.  Will be interesting to see what shakes out as they look deeper into it fluffy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 18, 2020, 11:51:06 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on July 18, 2020, 09:27:58 AM

Obviously we don't have to agree all the time, but I'm going to strongly disagree with your last sentence.  He has turned us into a laughingstock internationally, and it just gets worse every day.  We move so quickly from one scandal to the next that even a few days seems to feel like an eternity.  I will give the Trump administration credit for one thing, they are masters at distraction.

Certainly been a lot of distractions which over time as details came to the surface of these  scandals have proved to be the media and detractors of this administration jumping to conclusions and spinning things to make them look as bad as possible.

For instance the article below.  I remember the Sunday shows and about 5 continuous days of news coverage lifting up Hogan as one of the good republicans and doing what he had to do despite the dysfunction of the White House to get the tests he needed for his people.  Even had them shipped in the dark of night under police escort in fear of fema intercepting the shipment 😱

Turns out it was all BS, shocker.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/md-politics/hogan-south-korea-coronavirus-tests/2020/07/16/c0e69ec8-c765-11ea-a99f-3bbdffb1af38_story.html#click=https://t.co/tgcT8mLWNX

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 18, 2020, 12:09:19 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 18, 2020, 09:07:26 AM

I’ve criticized Trump when’s he deserved criticism.  Just doesn’t deserve it often so it’s hard to come up with examples.

Tip of the hat, that's A level trolling

(https://media.giphy.com/media/13fiXLvca1FrTW/giphy.gif)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on July 18, 2020, 12:45:51 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 18, 2020, 08:49:43 AM

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/07/14/jake-tapper-gov-andrew-cuomo-covid-19-poster-gupta-lead-sot-vpx.cnn

There is an honest discussion to be had about the effects of this state order. 

To ignore an unarguable fact that this was a state directive that has since been rescinded, by the governor just proves you’re nothing more then a partisan hack and not interested in honest discussions.

Your response proves you are simply trolling. Never did I say that it wasn't a state directive. It was a state directive, that was consistent with those by states across the nation and following federal CDC recommendations/guidelines.

Where NY failed, was in making the legal language clear. The Federal policies clearly indicated discharged COVID patients should be returned to nursing homes "if they can be properly cared for". The NY policy didn't formally include the quoted language in their directive stating that nursing homes could not refuse to readmit a patient based on their COVID status. They say that was because there was already a long standing statute stating that a nursing home cannot accept patients they cannot properly care for, so the additional language was unnecessary.

That led to confusion in some nursing homes, where they thought the new rule superseded the previous statutes. That is a significant error by Cuomo's administration in not making legal language clear. How many facilities took in patients they knew they couldn't care for, is unknown.

But across the nation, nursing home's are still caring for COVID patients on site, and accepting discharged COVID patients, supposedly provided they can handle the patients. But massive outbreaks at senior care facilities are still rampant, which questions whether proper procedures are being followed.

Now there were also federal guidelines that had significant penalties for not being able to implement infection control, but those were rescinded by the Trump administration.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/amid-coronavirus-outbreak-trump-administration-s-proposed-rollback-nursing-home-n1147661

So Cuomo's administration failed in making the legal language clear. Technically their policy, though, was and is exactly the same as the federal guidance, and what is still transpiring across the nation.

Regarding policies of governors killing people. Look at Kemp, who is suing his own Mayors who implement mask ordinances. That is killing people, and is not guided by any rational science or policy. That is what I was referring to.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 18, 2020, 12:47:12 PM

Quote from: mufanatic on July 18, 2020, 11:31:49 AM

Can we actually say and prove that wearing masks is 100% the reason and any type of potential herd immunity is at 0%?  I don't think so.  I think there is some sort of immunity and that those areas that have been hit the hardest are fostering some type of herd immunity, at least for the short term.

I wear a mask and believe it helps in slowing down the transmission but its starting to sound like there might be some type of herd immunity forming as well.  I know that they are finding out that antibodies are decreasing or gone in asymptomatic and mild patients after a few months but no one has said there is no immunity.  T-cells are shaping up to be prominent in fighting off infection and there are encouraging information that there are those who never tested positive for COVID-19 that have T-cells that help fight the virus.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/t-cells-found-covid-19-patients-bode-well-long-term-immunity

Can't the answer be both?

That’s what I’m hoping for!!  👍👍

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 18, 2020, 12:49:16 PM

Quote from: forgetful on July 18, 2020, 12:45:51 PM

Your response proves you are simply trolling. Never did I say that it wasn't a state directive. It was a state directive, that was consistent with those by states across the nation and following federal CDC recommendations/guidelines.

Where NY failed, was in making the legal language clear. The Federal policies clearly indicated discharged COVID patients should be returned to nursing homes "if they can be properly cared for". The NY policy didn't formally include the quoted language in their directive stating that nursing homes could not refuse to readmit a patient based on their COVID status. They say that was because there was already a long standing statute stating that a nursing home cannot accept patients they cannot properly care for, so the additional language was unnecessary.

That led to confusion in some nursing homes, where they thought the new rule superseded the previous statutes. That is a significant error by Cuomo's administration in not making legal language clear. How many facilities took in patients they knew they couldn't care for, is unknown.

But across the nation, nursing home's are still caring for COVID patients on site, and accepting discharged COVID patients, supposedly provided they can handle the patients. But massive outbreaks at senior care facilities are still rampant, which questions whether proper procedures are being followed.

Now there were also federal guidelines that had significant penalties for not being able to implement infection control, but those were rescinded by the Trump administration.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/amid-coronavirus-outbreak-trump-administration-s-proposed-rollback-nursing-home-n1147661

So Cuomo's administration failed in making the legal language clear. Technically their policy, though, was and is exactly the same as the federal guidance, and what is still transpiring across the nation.

Regarding policies of governors killing people. Look at Kemp, who is suing his own Mayors who implement mask ordinances. That is killing people, and is not guided by any rational science or policy. That is what I was referring to.

And on the Kemp/Georgia mask thing we are on the same page.  Stupid move on his part.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on July 18, 2020, 01:05:30 PM

Quote from: mufanatic on July 18, 2020, 11:31:49 AM

Can we actually say and prove that wearing masks is 100% the reason and any type of potential herd immunity is at 0%?  I don't think so.  I think there is some sort of immunity and that those areas that have been hit the hardest are fostering some type of herd immunity, at least for the short term.

I wear a mask and believe it helps in slowing down the transmission but its starting to sound like there might be some type of herd immunity forming as well.  I know that they are finding out that antibodies are decreasing or gone in asymptomatic and mild patients after a few months but no one has said there is no immunity.  T-cells are shaping up to be prominent in fighting off infection and there are encouraging information that there are those who never tested positive for COVID-19 that have T-cells that help fight the virus.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/t-cells-found-covid-19-patients-bode-well-long-term-immunity

Can't the answer be both?

Reasonable statements, but...

Technically speaking, no the answer cannot be both. That is because "achieving herd immunity" has a specific definition related to that diseases specific threshold. We have not achieved that event at the levels of infection that have been experienced in the "hot spots".

What you are describing, though, is definitely true. As the number of "immune" individuals rises the probability of spreading the disease to others decreases. Since mask wearing also decreases the probability of spreading the disease to others, there can be a combinatorial effect. But where we are at in 99% of the nation, the "infection" levels have been so low that there is really no contribution of "herd immunity" to overall spread. In places like NYC, it is probably high enough that the degree of spread has a combinatorial effect.

The best way I can give an analogy for why this is not "achieving herd immunity" is a chemistry one (which may be useless). In chemistry we define compounds as "Ionic" or "covalent," there is an arbitrary equation based on the Pauling Scale, where they set an arbitrary value of 2, to define the border between Ionic or covalent compounds. Above 2 "ionic", below 2, "covalent". This is analogous to the "herd immunity threshold," which has a specific meaning. Now, it is technically true that compounds with values of less than 2 can have some "ionic character," (e.g. the combinatorial effect with masks leading to "herd immunity character"), but by definition it is not "ionic"/"herd immunity".

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 18, 2020, 02:58:46 PM

Damning

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/18/us/politics/trump-coronavirus-response-failure-leadership.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 18, 2020, 03:58:47 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 18, 2020, 02:58:46 PM

Damning

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/18/us/politics/trump-coronavirus-response-failure-leadership.html

Wow ... that was an outstanding (albeit sobering and sad) recap of everything that went wrong and why. Reading it, I couldn't help but feeling that Birx will end up being one of the main scapegoats to be sacrificed, just as they're now trying to do with Fauci.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Big Papi on July 18, 2020, 04:05:37 PM

Quote from: forgetful on July 18, 2020, 01:05:30 PM

Reasonable statements, but...

Technically speaking, no the answer cannot be both. That is because "achieving herd immunity" has a specific definition related to that diseases specific threshold. We have not achieved that event at the levels of infection that have been experienced in the "hot spots".

https://www.yahoo.com/news/uk-may-already-enough-herd-183015155.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 18, 2020, 04:09:53 PM

Quote from: mufanatic on July 18, 2020, 04:05:37 PM

https://www.yahoo.com/news/uk-may-already-enough-herd-183015155.html

It’s great if true.  I question though the assumption that it’s achieved since so many are immune.  They can still spread. 

I can tell you that Scott Gottleib believes the number is below 80% for many reasons.  But I’ve never heard as low as 20 from him or other docs yet.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on July 18, 2020, 04:25:28 PM

This seems inexplicable...

WASHINGTON, D.C. — The Trump administration is trying to block billions of dollars for states to conduct testing and contact tracing in the upcoming coronavirus relief bill, people involved in the talks said Saturday.

The administration is also trying to block billions of dollars that GOP senators want to allocate for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and billions more for the Pentagon and State Department to address the pandemic at home and abroad, the people said.

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/trump-administration-seeks-to-block-money-for-testing-tracing-cdc-in-upcoming-virus-relief-bill/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 18, 2020, 04:38:35 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on July 18, 2020, 04:25:28 PM

This seems inexplicable...

WASHINGTON, D.C. — The Trump administration is trying to block billions of dollars for states to conduct testing and contact tracing in the upcoming coronavirus relief bill, people involved in the talks said Saturday.

The administration is also trying to block billions of dollars that GOP senators want to allocate for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and billions more for the Pentagon and State Department to address the pandemic at home and abroad, the people said.

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/trump-administration-seeks-to-block-money-for-testing-tracing-cdc-in-upcoming-virus-relief-bill/

Sorry Pakuni, it is not inexplicable in any way.

It is the result of having a mentally ill, evil man in charge. It is exactly what is to be expected. It is what he has said he would do.

140,000 deaths and the expectation of maybe doubling that by year's end, does not even resonate with this guy. He is doing Putin's handiwork - destroy America.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on July 18, 2020, 04:41:12 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on July 18, 2020, 04:25:28 PM

This seems inexplicable...

WASHINGTON, D.C. — The Trump administration is trying to block billions of dollars for states to conduct testing and contact tracing in the upcoming coronavirus relief bill, people involved in the talks said Saturday.

The administration is also trying to block billions of dollars that GOP senators want to allocate for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and billions more for the Pentagon and State Department to address the pandemic at home and abroad, the people said.

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/trump-administration-seeks-to-block-money-for-testing-tracing-cdc-in-upcoming-virus-relief-bill/

biggest problem to me is the poor contact tracing to this point.  It should be an open book as to how and where people got the virus.  there should be so many more data points made available

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on July 18, 2020, 04:59:03 PM

Nueces County, TX.

85 infants under the age two, have tested positive for COVID-19. (Majority under age one)

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1234293

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 18, 2020, 05:36:14 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on July 18, 2020, 04:25:28 PM

This seems inexplicable...

WASHINGTON, D.C. — The Trump administration is trying to block billions of dollars for states to conduct testing and contact tracing in the upcoming coronavirus relief bill, people involved in the talks said Saturday.

The administration is also trying to block billions of dollars that GOP senators want to allocate for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and billions more for the Pentagon and State Department to address the pandemic at home and abroad, the people said.

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/trump-administration-seeks-to-block-money-for-testing-tracing-cdc-in-upcoming-virus-relief-bill/

Nah, not inexplicable at all. Trump is all about perceptions, it why he was so focused on the ratings during his daily briefings. I mean, he has repeated said the quiet part out loud about this, too: he wants less testing. Less testing will result in a lower number of confirmed cases.
It goes all the way back to the beginning when he didn't want the cruise ship to dock because he "liked the numbers" where they were. Its why he told his people to slow the testing and undoubtedly why they are trying to obfuscate the data from hospitals.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 18, 2020, 06:20:07 PM

Quote from: mufanatic on July 18, 2020, 04:05:37 PM

https://www.yahoo.com/news/uk-may-already-enough-herd-183015155.html

That would be nice...but current estimates of the overall infection rate in the US range from 1% to 5%. Most of the numbers I have seen are under 2%. But even if we generously assume we're at 5%, and if we generously assume that it only takes 20% for herd immunity (a best-case scenario matched with another best-case scenario), we would still only be a quarter of the way there.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 18, 2020, 10:29:28 PM

Baseball in the era of COVID. Phillies player hits HR @ Washington. Crew accidentally plays the piped-in cheering intended for the home team.

https://apnews.com/e9e671f02d6b81742f06749b7bc1406b

Welcome to 2020.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on July 19, 2020, 12:50:09 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on July 18, 2020, 10:29:28 PM

Baseball in the era of COVID. Phillies player hits HR @ Washington. Crew accidentally plays the piped-in cheering intended for the home team.

https://apnews.com/e9e671f02d6b81742f06749b7bc1406b

Welcome to 2020.

Didi hit one while wearing a mask. Off Scherzer. Several foreign leaders stated that they felt it was a poor optic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 19, 2020, 08:41:10 AM

A summary of an interview with Fauci.  Some amazing investments placed with speed surrounding testing/vaccines.  Also, some good general commentary the situation.   

https://twitter.com/erictopol/status/1284503774338314241?s=21 (https://twitter.com/erictopol/status/1284503774338314241?s=21)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 19, 2020, 02:25:53 PM

Dr Birx told President Trump in April that the coronavirus would soon be gone and influenced the administration's push to reopen the economy and lift lockdown
https://www.businessinsider.com/dr-birx-told-trump-april-coronavirus-was-going-away-nyt-2020-7

r Deborah Birx, the chief medical officer on the White House coronavirus task force, told the Trump administration in April that it was not a long term problem for the US, reported The New York Times.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 19, 2020, 05:03:55 PM

There are no ICU beds available at 49 Florida hospitals
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-07-19-20-intl/h_4568646d74f57c7a13f0215b05bb0054

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on July 19, 2020, 05:44:38 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on July 19, 2020, 05:03:55 PM

There are no ICU beds available at 49 Florida hospitals
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-07-19-20-intl/h_4568646d74f57c7a13f0215b05bb0054

It is what it is.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 19, 2020, 06:04:07 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 18, 2020, 10:12:52 AM

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.15.20154294v1
May suggest why essentially all of the global hot spots that got hit hard in the first wave are all now doing amazingly well.

If I held this view I would look to a place like New Orleans to see if they have some protective qualities in the midst of
LA epidemic. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 19, 2020, 06:30:28 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on July 19, 2020, 02:25:53 PM

Dr Birx told President Trump in April that the coronavirus would soon be gone and influenced the administration's push to reopen the economy and lift lockdown
https://www.businessinsider.com/dr-birx-told-trump-april-coronavirus-was-going-away-nyt-2020-7

r Deborah Birx, the chief medical officer on the White House coronavirus task force, told the Trump administration in April that it was not a long term problem for the US, reported The New York Times.

That was in that long, outstanding NYT piece that another Scooper posted.

I came out of it thinking that Birx will be a big-time scapegoat to be sacrificed.

While Fauci was the "bad cop," Birx was saying a lot of stuff the WH occupant desperately wanted to hear ... though even she had to draw the line when the discussion of injecting disinfectant was brought up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 19, 2020, 07:16:45 PM

Bahamas closes borders to U.S. tourists after COVID-19 cases spike; others still welcome

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/article244340147.html

Less than three weeks after reopening its borders to international visitors, the Bahamas on Sunday announced that it is closing all of its airports and seaports to tourists from the United States, effective Wednesday.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 19, 2020, 07:48:36 PM

Quote from: MU82 on July 19, 2020, 06:30:28 PM

That was in that long, outstanding NYT piece that another Scooper posted.

I came out of it thinking that Birx will be a big-time scapegoat to be sacrificed.

While Fauci was the "bad cop," Birx was saying a lot of stuff the WH occupant desperately wanted to hear ... though even she had to draw the line when the discussion of injecting disinfectant was brought up.

First time my wife saw her at one of the daily “briefings”, she just said” she’s a poser, a trump wannabe”. I’ve seen nothing to convince me otherwise. She loves the attention and isn’t bright enough to know that she will be a scapegoat-as you said.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 19, 2020, 08:10:37 PM

Dr Gottlieb is a self professed libertarian and a former trump appointee.  This opinion should be contemplated with that backdrop.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/behind-the-hhs-cdc-disagreement-11595193843 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/behind-the-hhs-cdc-disagreement-11595193843)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on July 19, 2020, 08:19:56 PM

Quote from: Jockey on July 19, 2020, 07:48:36 PM

First time my wife saw her at one of the daily “briefings”, she just said” she’s a poser, a trump wannabe”. I’ve seen nothing to convince me otherwise. She loves the attention and isn’t bright enough to know that she will be a scapegoat-as you said.

Four months ago, crickets. And follow the science, including Dr Birx.

Now? She not really a scientist, doncha’ know? Me and the wife had her pegged from the jump.

Sure.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on July 19, 2020, 08:31:05 PM

Quote from: Jockey on July 19, 2020, 07:48:36 PM

First time my wife saw her at one of the daily “briefings”, she just said” she’s a poser, a trump wannabe”. I’ve seen nothing to convince me otherwise. She loves the attention and isn’t bright enough to know that she will be a scapegoat-as you said.

Good lord. You wonder why people write you off as totally biased and lacking objectivity.

Birx has made mistakes in reporting to an irrational and impetuous leader, sure. But now she’s a poser wannabe lacking in intellect and always has been? Despite a long and distinguished medical career filled with expertise and appointments by Obama? Ok got it

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 19, 2020, 09:00:33 PM

Quote from: Jockey on July 19, 2020, 07:48:36 PM

First time my wife saw her at one of the daily “briefings”, she just said” she’s a poser, a trump wannabe”. I’ve seen nothing to convince me otherwise. She loves the attention and isn’t bright enough to know that she will be a scapegoat-as you said.

I think the article was a little more nuanced. It seemed that her too rosy projections were based on assuming people would continue to "do the right thing" and continue to socially distance and that the U.S. would re-open based on scientific benchmarks.

In hindsight those were clearly a bad assumptions, but as I shared here a while back, a highly-respected epidemiologist that I work with made the same assumptions.

I don't think this exonerates her, just that it was not quite as straight a line. I have no doubt she fell into the same strange, disastrous downward spiral that so many seem to when they get captured in the Trump orbit.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 19, 2020, 09:15:02 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on July 19, 2020, 09:00:33 PM

I think the article was a little more nuanced. It seemed that her too rosy projections were based on assuming people would continue to "do the right thing" and continue to socially distance and that the U.S. would re-open based on scientific benchmarks.

In hindsight those were clearly a bad assumptions, but as I shared here a while back, a highly-respected epidemiologist that I work with made the same assumptions.

I don't think this exonerates her, just that it was not quite as straight a line. I have no doubt she fell into the same strange, disastrous downward spiral that so many seem to when they get captured in the Trump orbit.

It may have been partly her naive hopes of people doing the right thing, but I believe she also tried way too hard to tell POTUS what he wanted to hear. As a professional and one of the WH’s resident ‘experts,’ she has an obligation to tell people what they need to hear, not what they want to hear.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 19, 2020, 09:19:08 PM

Here are the "nut grafs" in that article relating to Birx IMHO ...

Dr. Birx would roam the halls of the White House, talking to Mr. Kushner, Ms. Hicks and others, sometimes passing out diagrams to bolster her case. “We’ve hit our peak,” she would say, and that message would find its way back to Mr. Trump.

Dr. Birx began using versions of the phrase “putting out the embers,” wording that was later picked up by the press secretary, Kayleigh McEnany, and by Mr. Trump himself.

By the middle of May, the task force believed that another resurgence was not likely until the fall, senior administration officials said.

The New York region appeared well on its way to driving new infections down to levels it could handle — it was the one area of the country that did resemble the Italian model. But the models and analysis embraced by the West Wing failed to account for the weakening adherence to the lockdowns across the country that began even before Mr. Trump started urging governors to “liberate” their residents from the methodical guidelines his own government had established.

Later, it was clear that states that rushed to reopen before meeting the criteria in the guidelines — like Arizona, Texas and Alabama — would have among the worst surges in new cases.

Dr. Birx’s belief that the United States would mirror Italy turned out to be disastrously wrong. The Italians had been almost entirely compliant with stay-at-home orders and social distancing, squelching new infections to negligible levels before the country slowly reopened. Americans, by contrast, began backing away by late April from what social distancing efforts they had been making, egged on by Mr. Trump.

The difference was critical. As communities across the United States raced to reopen, the daily number of daily cases barely dropped below 20,000 in early May. The virus was still circulating across the country.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on July 19, 2020, 09:32:48 PM

I did appreciate that they used keefe’s model to get this all wrong.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 19, 2020, 11:21:36 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on July 19, 2020, 08:31:05 PM

Good lord. You wonder why people write you off as totally biased and lacking objectivity.

Birx has made mistakes in reporting to an irrational and impetuous leader, sure. But now she’s a poser wannabe lacking in intellect and always has been? Despite a long and distinguished medical career filled with expertise and appointments by Obama? Ok got it

There is a reason she is now the head of the task force and why Fauci is not even allowed to appear on TV. She gave her allegiance to Trump. Fauci didn’t.

Her job is to guide this country in fighting Covid. If she gave Trump the advice that she is reported to have given, she was derelict in her duty, dare I say, a poser.

What is it that Birx has done that makes you defend her? Instead of bowing before trump, shouldn’t she be out front fighting for masks? Shouldn’t she be fighting for the CDC rules for school openings?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on July 20, 2020, 10:25:46 AM

Quote from: Jockey on July 19, 2020, 11:21:36 PM

There is a reason she is now the head of the task force and why Fauci is not even allowed to appear on TV. She gave her allegiance to Trump. Fauci didn’t.

Her job is to guide this country in fighting Covid. If she gave Trump the advice that she is reported to have given, she was derelict in her duty, dare I say, a poser.

What is it that Birx has done that makes you defend her? Instead of bowing before trump, shouldn’t she be out front fighting for masks? Shouldn’t she be fighting for the CDC rules for school openings?

She has been clearly in favor of masks. This is from a month and change ago.

“What we have said to people is there is clear scientific evidence now, by all the droplet experiments that happened, and that others have done, to show that a mask does prevent droplets from reaching others," Birx said on "Fox News Sunday" when asked what she would tell people who say they have a right not to wear a mask in public.
"Out of respect for each other, as Americans that care for each other, we need to be wearing masks in public when we cannot social distance," she said.

“ And this is unusual in the case of respiratory diseases in many cases. So, you don't know who's infected. And so we really want to be clear all the time that social distancing is absolutely critical. And if you can't social distance and you're outside, you must wear a mask. These are items that really critical to protect individuals," she said.”

She also just praised the CDC guidelines for school reopening earlier this month and stressed the challenge on applying them to varied localities that experience COVID differently at the moment.

Have you noticed her presence in media has fallen off a cliff? She used to be on TV daily, now she has a handful of public statements since May.  Hell, she gave an interview with a magazine a month ago where she mentioned to the writer that schools need to remain closed while we gather more information and plan and the next day Trump fired off his all caps SCHOOLS MUST OPEN tweet.  She’s only as vocal and available as the White House lets her be.  Not everyone thinks it’s best to be fired if they still feel they can do any good within.

Like TSmith said, she made some overly positive assumptions and miscalculated just how hard it is to manage and/or navigate Trump, she’s not perfect. But your households smug assumption that shes some silly patsy and not “bright” is insulting and demeaning, but whatever. Just more if the tribal partisan BS.  Thank god Obama didn’t view her with such dim regard like you do.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on July 20, 2020, 10:58:34 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on July 19, 2020, 08:19:56 PM

Four months ago, crickets. And follow the science, including Dr Birx.

Now? She not really a scientist, doncha’ know? Me and the wife had her pegged from the jump.

Sure.

I can't speak for others on here, but if you want to go back and look, about 3-months ago, I indicted I was concerned about Birx, as she was proving to be a politician and disregarding the science for more political power.

I know the turning point for me being sure of this was the press conference involving "heat" killing the virus, and a suggestion of injecting bleach. The science there was terrible, and she trumped up the results as game changers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 20, 2020, 01:19:12 PM

Quote from: forgetful on July 20, 2020, 10:58:34 AM

I can't speak for others on here, but if you want to go back and look, about 3-months ago, I indicted I was concerned about Birx, as she was proving to be a politician and disregarding the science for more political power.

I know the turning point for me being sure of this was the press conference involving "heat" killing the virus, and a suggestion of injecting bleach. The science there was terrible, and she trumped up the results as game changers.

Agreed. Fauci has earned his reputation through decades of experience and performance, while Birx came into this as a relative unknown. She probably had a good pedigree to get to her current position, but she seemed to fall off the wagon around the time Fauci was warning that we were reopening too soon and she just smiled along when POTUS said something absurd. Now we know that behind the scenes, she was actively enabling POTUS with her overly optimistic expectations.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on July 20, 2020, 01:37:42 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on July 20, 2020, 01:19:12 PM

Agreed. Fauci has earned his reputation through decades of experience and performance, while Birx came into this as a relative unknown. She probably had a good pedigree to get to her current position, but she seemed to fall off the wagon around the time Fauci was warning that we were reopening too soon and she just smiled along when POTUS said something absurd. Now we know that behind the scenes, she was actively enabling POTUS with her overly optimistic expectations.

To whom? The American public? Sure. But it’s not like Fauci was a household name.  She was a Director at the CDC and headed up their AIDS/HIV work and was tasked by Obama with ending the AIDS/HIV epidemic, a position that required Senate confirmation and vote. She’s not some random physician plucked from obscurity to be a pawn in the Trump game.  I don’t know why suddenly everyone is rushing to tear down her bonafides and make her out to be some under qualified bumbling Pollyanna

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 20, 2020, 01:44:24 PM

I think the worst that can be said about Brix is that she is more of a poltical novice who is having troubles balancing what she knows to be good science with a President who oftentimes doesn't follow that path.  Fauci has been around longer and may have more experience managing those competing pressures.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 20, 2020, 01:51:18 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on July 20, 2020, 01:37:42 PM

To whom? The American public? Sure. But it’s not like Fauci was a household name.  She was a Director at the CDC and headed up their AIDS/HIV work and was tasked by Obama with ending the AIDS/HIV epidemic, a position that required Senate confirmation and vote. She’s not some random physician plucked from obscurity to be a pawn in the Trump game.  I don’t know why suddenly everyone is rushing to tear down her bonafides and make her out to be some under qualified bumbling Pollyanna

To the general public.

If you really read my entire post instead of just the part you bolded, you would also see the words "she probably had a good pedigree to get to her current position." That was a clear acknowledgement that, while I am unfamiliar with her background, I was assuming that she deserved her position. And it is dramatically different from calling her "some random physician plucked from obscurity" or "some under qualified bumbling Pollyanna."

Please read, pause and think before posting....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on July 20, 2020, 01:55:15 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on July 20, 2020, 01:51:18 PM

To the general public.

If you really read my entire post instead of just the part you bolded, you would also see the words "she probably had a good pedigree to get to her current position." That was a clear acknowledgement that, while I am unfamiliar with her background, I was assuming that she deserved her position. And it is dramatically different from calling her "some random physician plucked from obscurity" or "some under qualified bumbling Pollyanna."

Please read, pause and think before posting....

Really dude? Come on man.  Read the rest of the thread. Read the reactions to the “behind the scenes article”. I never highlighted you for calling her that.  I clearly have read cause I knew her background. But thanks for calmly patronizing me.

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 20, 2020, 01:44:24 PM

I think the worst that can be said about Brix is that she is more of a poltical novice who is having troubles balancing what she knows to be good science with a President who oftentimes doesn't follow that path.  Fauci has been around longer and may have more experience managing those competing pressures.

And I’m completely fine with that assessment.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on July 20, 2020, 01:55:28 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 20, 2020, 01:44:24 PM

I think the worst that can be said about Brix is that she is more of a poltical novice who is having troubles balancing what she knows to be good science with a President who oftentimes doesn't follow that path.  Fauci has been around longer and may have more experience managing those competing pressures.

I'd also suggest that Fauci, at nearly 80 years old and with his legacy well-established, can afford to have a bit more of a IDGAF attitude when it comes to the White House. He clearly can wield a great deal of influence, regardless of whether he stands at the White House podium or has Trump's support.
Brix, on the other hand, needs to stay in Trumo's good graces if she's to have any influence over national policy. As a result, I suspect she's probably been more willing to tell the president what he wants to hear, along with what he doesn't. Kind of a "Spoonful of Sugar" situation.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 20, 2020, 02:11:06 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on July 20, 2020, 01:55:15 PM

Really dude? Come on man.  Read the rest of the thread. Read the reactions to the “behind the scenes article”. I never highlighted you for calling her that.  I clearly have read cause I knew her background. But thanks for calmly patronizing me.

You specifically replied to my post, and you said 'everyone' was calling her an under qualified Pollyanna.

As I said, please read, pause and think before posting...dude.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on July 20, 2020, 02:16:06 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on July 20, 2020, 01:37:42 PM

She was a Director at the CDC and headed up their AIDS/HIV work and was tasked by Obama with ending the AIDS/HIV epidemic, a position that required Senate confirmation and vote. She’s not some random physician plucked from obscurity to be a pawn in the Trump game.  I don’t know why suddenly everyone is rushing to tear down her bonafides and make her out to be some under qualified bumbling Pollyanna

Just to be clear, I did not tear down her bonafides, or suggest at all she is under qualified. I'm well aware of her impressive credentials, and abilities.

I simply stated, that she seems to be operating more in terms of being a politician, then scientist/doctor. I say this, because her bonafides clearly indicate that she knows better in regards to some of the decisions/statements/inactions she has been part of.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on July 20, 2020, 02:29:09 PM

Quote from: forgetful on July 20, 2020, 02:16:06 PM

Just to be clear, I did not tear down her bonafides, or suggest at all she is under qualified. I'm well aware of her impressive credentials, and abilities.

I simply stated, that she seems to be operating more in terms of being a politician, then scientist/doctor. I say this, because her bonafides clearly indicate that she knows better in regards to some of the decisions/statements/inactions she has been part of.

I can agree with this. I think like Fluffy and Pakuni have said, there unfortunately is a heavy political game to this, that’s challenging for even the best and most experienced operators, and unfortunately her angle and tactics haven’t played with the mess at the top.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on July 20, 2020, 02:31:37 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on July 20, 2020, 01:37:42 PM

I don’t know why suddenly everyone is rushing to tear down her bonafides and make her out to be some under qualified bumbling Pollyanna

Simple logic from some simple people (I’m excluding Forgetful, Fluffy and others):

A - Anyone who agrees with anything Trump has ever said or done is stupid, unqualified and vile

+B - Dr Birx agreed with Trump about opening the economy

= C - Therefore Dr Birx is stupid, unqualified and vile.

Wags, the only thing shocking about this is that you’re surprised. As soon as I saw the article I knew this was coming.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 20, 2020, 03:02:37 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on July 19, 2020, 08:19:56 PM

Four months ago, crickets. And follow the science, including Dr Birx.

Now? She not really a scientist, doncha’ know? Me and the wife had her pegged from the jump.

Sure.

I believe in science.

I DO NOT believe in science filtered through trump’s White House. 

The reason I mentioned my wife calling her a poser is because my like likes everyone. When she said that after seeing her on TV for maybe 60 seconds, I was quite surprised. Two days later, Trump talked about injecting bleach and Birx’ answer verified her critique. She was simply one more person bowing before him. She couldn’t muster the courage to say “No, don’t ever do that!”.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 20, 2020, 03:09:52 PM

Quote from: Jockey on July 20, 2020, 03:02:37 PM

I believe in science.

I DO NOT believe in science filtered through trump’s White House. 

The reason I mentioned my wife calling her a poser is because my like likes everyone. When she said that after seeing her on TV for maybe 60 seconds, I was quite surprised. Two days later, Trump talked about injecting bleach and Birx’ answer verified her critique. She was simply one more person bowing before him. She couldn’t muster the courage to say “No, don’t ever do that!”.

It's always easy to call others out for their lack of courage.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 20, 2020, 04:22:42 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on July 20, 2020, 10:25:46 AM

She has been clearly in favor of masks. This is from a month and change ago.

“What we have said to people is there is clear scientific evidence now, by all the droplet experiments that happened, and that others have done, to show that a mask does prevent droplets from reaching others," Birx said on "Fox News Sunday" when asked what she would tell people who say they have a right not to wear a mask in public.
"Out of respect for each other, as Americans that care for each other, we need to be wearing masks in public when we cannot social distance," she said.

“ And this is unusual in the case of respiratory diseases in many cases. So, you don't know who's infected. And so we really want to be clear all the time that social distancing is absolutely critical. And if you can't social distance and you're outside, you must wear a mask. These are items that really critical to protect individuals," she said.”

She also just praised the CDC guidelines for school reopening earlier this month and stressed the challenge on applying them to varied localities that experience COVID differently at the moment.

Have you noticed her presence in media has fallen off a cliff? She used to be on TV daily, now she has a handful of public statements since May.  Hell, she gave an interview with a magazine a month ago where she mentioned to the writer that schools need to remain closed while we gather more information and plan and the next day Trump fired off his all caps SCHOOLS MUST OPEN tweet.  She’s only as vocal and available as the White House lets her be.  Not everyone thinks it’s best to be fired if they still feel they can do any good within.

Like TSmith said, she made some overly positive assumptions and miscalculated just how hard it is to manage and/or navigate Trump, she’s not perfect. But your households smug assumption that shes some silly patsy and not “bright” is insulting and demeaning, but whatever. Just more if the tribal partisan BS.  Thank god Obama didn’t view her with such dim regard like you do.

I appreciate the response, Wags.

I realize your points have some validity, but when you are the lead scientist (as she now is since Fauci has been put in the doghouse), it is your duty to country that comes first. Saying something and then going silent on any of these issues -schools, masks, etc., - isn’t helping the country. She needs to speak out on these things over and over to be effective. Worrying about upsetting trump just makes my point.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 20, 2020, 05:43:15 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on July 20, 2020, 02:31:37 PM

Simple logic from some simple people (I’m excluding Forgetful, Fluffy and others):

A - Anyone who agrees with anything Trump has ever said or done is stupid, unqualified and vile

+B - Dr Birx agreed with Trump about opening the economy

= C - Therefore Dr Birx is stupid, unqualified and vile.

Wags, the only thing shocking about this is that you’re surprised. As soon as I saw the article I knew this was coming.

nailed it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 20, 2020, 05:57:12 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on July 20, 2020, 05:43:15 PM

nailed it.

Yep.

/ducks/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: BM1090 on July 20, 2020, 06:07:29 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on July 20, 2020, 05:43:15 PM

nailed it.

Plus we now live in a world where being wrong once somehow invalidates your opinions on all matters forever.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on July 20, 2020, 09:20:57 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on July 20, 2020, 02:29:09 PM

I can agree with this. I think like Fluffy and Pakuni have said, there unfortunately is a heavy political game to this, that’s challenging for even the best and most experienced operators, and unfortunately her angle and tactics haven’t played with the mess at the top.

Agreed. I don't envy those having to play the game, and honestly, not sure how I would handle some of the situations they were forced into.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 20, 2020, 11:51:29 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on July 20, 2020, 02:31:37 PM

Simple logic from some simple people (I’m excluding Forgetful, Fluffy and others):

A - Anyone who agrees with anything Trump has ever said or done is stupid, unqualified and vile

+B - Dr Birx agreed with Trump about opening the economy

= C - Therefore Dr Birx is stupid, unqualified and vile.

Wags, the only thing shocking about this is that you’re surprised. As soon as I saw the article I knew this was coming.

No one here has said Birx isn’t a good scientist or is unqualified (you know this). The complaint, by me at least, is that she needs to speak truth to power. If she is afraid of offending trump, she loses her value.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 21, 2020, 07:26:09 AM

Quote from: Jockey on July 20, 2020, 11:51:29 PM

No one here has said Birx isn’t a good scientist or is unqualified (you know this).

You said she was a "poser."  Your initial statement was silly.  Your attempts to backtrack, yet still claim you were "right," are truly amazing to witness.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on July 21, 2020, 11:06:07 AM

https://onemileatatime.com/istanbul-airport-coronavirus-testing/

In all seriousness .. how does an airport in Turkey have a $16 test that returns results in two hours, 2,000 tests per hour??

I mean, how does Turkey do that and (AFAIK) the US doesn't have anything like that anywhere?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on July 21, 2020, 11:38:30 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on July 21, 2020, 11:06:07 AM

https://onemileatatime.com/istanbul-airport-coronavirus-testing/

In all seriousness .. how does an airport in Turkey have a $16 test that returns results in two hours, 2,000 tests per hour??

I mean, how does Turkey do that and (AFAIK) the US doesn't have anything like that anywhere?

Related, I started reading OMAAT when I started traveling a lot for work, and the comment section has always been...interesting. But since the pandemic has begun, my goodness. For people that frequent a travel blog, there is a section of COVID panic hysterics in there that make the most cautious on this board seem like freewheeling cowboys. Saying they won’t get on planes till 2022 AT THE VERY EARLIEST and basically accusing anyone traveling, in any fashion, these days as selfish agents of murder and destruction. It’s something else

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 21, 2020, 11:21:25 PM

From the NYT:

The United States on Tuesday recorded more than 1,000 coronavirus deaths in a single day for the first time in July, according to a New York Time database. Officials in Nevada, Oregon and Tennessee reported their highest single-day death figures yet.

Public health experts have warned for weeks that deaths would trail new cases by about a month and case counts have risen substantially since mid-June, when states began lifting stay-at-home orders and reopening businesses.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on July 21, 2020, 11:33:48 PM

Quote from: MU82 on July 21, 2020, 11:21:25 PM

Officials in Nevada, Oregon and Tennessee reported their highest single-day death figures yet.

Factual, but in Oregon that number was 7.  Single digit 7.  They've hit that number 2 other times in the past 4 months.  There is a slight trend up in daily deaths but the state doesn't appear to be in bad shape yet (or any time past).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 21, 2020, 11:43:35 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on July 21, 2020, 11:33:48 PM

Factual, but in Oregon that number was 7.  Single digit 7.  They've hit that number 2 other times in the past 4 months.  There is a slight trend up in daily deaths but the state doesn't appear to be in bad shape yet (or any time past).

Glad to hear that. I like Oregon.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 22, 2020, 08:36:06 AM

Earlier in the thread, there was discussion of the economic impact of COVID on hospitals. Now, another problem looms; an accelerated timeline to the insolvency of Medicare Part A (hospital payments).

Another problem on the health horizon: Medicare is running out of money

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/07/21/npr-another-problem-on-the-health-horizon-medicare-is-running-out-of-money

With record numbers of Americans out of work, fewer payroll taxes are rolling in to fund Medicare spending, the number of beneficiaries is rising, and Congress dipped into Medicare's reserves to help fund the COVID-19 relief efforts this spring.
...

In April, Medicare's trustees reported that the Part A trust fund, which pays for hospital and other inpatient care, would start to run out of money in 2026. That is the same as the projection in 2019. But the trustees cautioned at the time that their projections did not include the impact of COVID-19 on the trust fund.

"Given the uncertainty associated with these impacts, the Trustees believe that it is not possible to adjust the estimates accurately at this time," said the report.

So Shulkin, now a senior fellow at the Leonard Davis Institute of Health Economics at the University of Pennsylvania, did his own projections in early July. Given even a conservative estimate of how many workers and businesses would not be contributing payroll taxes that finance Part A spending, he said, the trust fund could become insolvent as early as 2022 or 2023.

"I think this is something that needs more immediate attention," he said.

Others who make projections agree the insolvency date is getting closer, maybe not as close as 2022.

The Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, a nonpartisan group of budget experts focused on fiscal policy, estimates that the pandemic will cause the Part A trust fund to be unable to pay all of its bills starting in late 2023 or early 2024. "But we're still very close," said Marc Goldwein, the group's senior vice president.

-----------------

I don't know what the long-term picture will look like, but it is clear that COVID will dramatically impact how healthcare is provided and paid for in the US.

My own opinion is that the country still isn't ready for an all-out switch to the single-payer system demanded by the far left. Instead, we will move back to a strengthened version of the ACA, with a guarantee of Medicare for anyone who falls through the cracks. And inevitably, we will need to improve the reimbursement methodologies used by Medicare (moving from fee for service to outcome-oriented payments). Too many details to even fathom at the moment, but COVID will inevitably accelerate the shakeup that has been brewing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 22, 2020, 04:09:50 PM

Canda's approach vs. US approach to Covid in one picture:

(https://i.cbc.ca/1.5658756.1595434148!/fileImage/httpImage/image.JPG_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/niagara-falls-covid-hornblower-maid-of-the-mist.JPG)

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/maid-of-the-mist-niagara-falls-hornblower-covid-1.5658620

The two boats tell very different stories.

Aboard Maid of the Mist VII, passengers in blue ponchos appear to fill the top deck and wrap around the lower level as it sails on the American side of Niagara Falls. The passing Canadian-run Hornblower is all but empty with just a handful of people wrapped in red, huddled in pairs near the railing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on July 22, 2020, 04:14:28 PM

At about 3pm today, in a coordinated move, 3 midwest governors announced mask mandates.

Indiana
Ohio
Minnesota

They joined the two other Midwest states with existing mask mandates

Michigan
Illinois

Nice move showing common sense and unity in the region, and that their state leadership is committed to following the science.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 22, 2020, 04:15:46 PM

Quote from: Skatastrophy on July 22, 2020, 04:14:28 PM

At about 3pm today, in a coordinated move, 5 midwest governors announced mask mandates.

Illinois
Indiana
Ohio
Michigan
Minnesota

Nice move, following the science.

Democrat, Republican, and Purple states.  Wisconsin on the sideline as usual with its pants around its ankles.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 22, 2020, 04:23:23 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on July 22, 2020, 04:15:46 PM

Democrat, Republican, and Purple states.  Wisconsin on the sideline as usual with its pants around its ankles.

The minute Evers moves to make this declaration, the Republicans take it to court.  On Wisconsin!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 22, 2020, 04:26:55 PM

A hidden silver lining of the pandemic...and the very real possibility that kids might still be at home in the fall?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/21/parenting/risky-play.html?action=click&module=Editors%20Picks&pgtype=Homepage

Peter Gray, an evolutionary psychologist and researcher at Boston College who has studied how children educate themselves through play and exploration, argues that opportunities for children to play outside with other children have decreased over the last 60 years, leading to rising rates of anxiety and depression among children and adolescents.

--------------

The article reads like most of my free time growing up in the 60s and 70s. Somehow most of us survived. I know changes in the world led to the 'new' parenting style, but it's nice to see another change in the world bring back some of the 'old' parenting style.

Maybe the post-COVID world will leave us somewhere in the middle. And regardless, maybe the pandemic's effects on kids isn't as universally bad as we all originally assumed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 22, 2020, 04:37:46 PM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 22, 2020, 04:23:23 PM

The minute Evers moves to make this declaration, the Republicans take it to court.  On Wisconsin!

Maybe you're right...but I hope it's a tougher sell (and it would certainly be a bad look) after Trump's comments yesterday.

Glad to see MN part of the group. We have had pretty decent compliance here in Rochester, but I have still seen a few careless idiots wandering around maskless in grocery stores. Hopefully this will put an end to that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 22, 2020, 04:47:22 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on July 22, 2020, 04:37:46 PM

Maybe you're right...but I hope it's a tougher sell (and it would certainly be a bad look) after Trump's comments yesterday.

Glad to see MN part of the group. We have had pretty decent compliance here in Rochester, but I have still seen a few careless idiots wandering around maskless in grocery stores. Hopefully this will put an end to that.

Any cessation of authority to Evers simply won’t be allowed.  A plague of locusts could swarm upon the farms of Wisconsin and we’d still be in court figuring out the best way to fight them after the damage was done

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 22, 2020, 05:54:52 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on July 22, 2020, 04:15:46 PM

Democrat, Republican, and Purple states.  Wisconsin on the sideline as usual with its pants around its ankles.

Yes you are right - but you also know why even though you didn't mention it.
See Rico's post).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 22, 2020, 06:01:27 PM

Toronto has no place to play baseball this year.

Canada won't allow it and now Pennsylvania has said no.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 22, 2020, 06:27:38 PM

Quote from: Jockey on July 22, 2020, 05:54:52 PM

Yes you are right - but you also know why even though you didn't mention it.
See Rico's post).

Because Evers is a political loser who is afraid to call the Republican's bluff?  Because that is exactly how I view him.  Weak.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 22, 2020, 06:33:51 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on July 22, 2020, 06:27:38 PM

Because Evers is a political loser who is afraid to call the Republican's bluff?  Because that is exactly how I view him.  Weak.

100% wrong. His power was removed before he became gov. and the supreme court made sure he didn't interfere with republicans running the state.

What would "calling their bluff" amount to? We already know. He could issue a mask mandate today and by tomorrow republicans would file suit. The outcome is pre-determined by the way the state is gerrymandered.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 22, 2020, 06:37:08 PM

Quote from: Jockey on July 22, 2020, 06:33:51 PM

100% wrong. His power was removed before he became gov. and the supreme court made sure he didn't interfere with republicans running the state.

What would "calling their bluff" amount to? We already know. He could issue a mask mandate today and by tomorrow republicans would file suit. The outcome is pre-determined by the way the state is gerrymandered.

I voted for him, but the man is a coward.  Make the GOP file suit.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on July 22, 2020, 07:11:09 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on July 22, 2020, 06:37:08 PM

I voted for him, but the man is a coward.  Make the GOP file suit.

+1 at least let the personal rights dumba$$es bury themselves as people start dying

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 22, 2020, 07:36:25 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on July 22, 2020, 06:37:08 PM

I voted for him, but the man is a coward.  Make the GOP file suit.

You do realize he did that already?

Your comment is asking him to be trump-like. The court already ruled against his power to do this - you are asking him to disregard the law.

I say no. We all know already that Republicans have blood on their hands.

I certainly understand your frustration and if there wasn’t already a Supreme Court ruling and he refused to issue a mask order, I would be with you 1,000%.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 22, 2020, 07:42:50 PM

Quote from: Jockey on July 22, 2020, 06:01:27 PM

Toronto has no place to play baseball this year.

Canada won't allow it and now Pennsylvania has said no.

I understand they have a setup to play in the AAA park in Buffalo.  But like most people the players don't want to go ito Buffalo.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 22, 2020, 07:58:58 PM

Quote from: Jockey on July 22, 2020, 07:36:25 PM

You do realize he did that already?

Your comment is asking him to be trump-like. The court already ruled against his power to do this - you are asking him to disregard the law.

I say no. We all know already that Republicans have blood on their hands.

I certainly understand your frustration and if there wasn’t already a Supreme Court ruling and he refused to issue a mask order, I would be with you 1,000%.

You may know it, but the average Joe needs to be beaten over the head with it.  Weekly.  Or they forget.  This is why the 'smart' Democrats lose ALL THE FREAKING TIME.

Call a presser on Friday, and announce the statewide mask mandate.  Let the GOP fight it.  This is a much NARROWER mandate.  Which is exactly what the SC said would have to happen.  He isn't shutting down anything for an emergency.  This is a separate issue, and if the GOP wants to fight it, you let them.  And then when they do, you announce it every week at your Friday press conference. 

Again, this is why I see Tony Evers and his admin as a bunch of feckless cowards.  He's the captain of this rudderless ship and he will be blamed by voters.  Mark my words.

Politics isn't won or lost in a court of law, but in a court of opinion.  You SHOW the public that you tried.  And that you tried EVERY WEEK.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 22, 2020, 08:06:12 PM

72% of Americans want mandatory face masks - with enforcible penalties.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 22, 2020, 08:09:49 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on July 22, 2020, 07:58:58 PM

You may know it, but the average Joe needs to be beaten over the head with it.  Weekly.  Or they forget.  This is why the 'smart' Democrats lose ALL THE FREAKING TIME.

Call a presser on Friday, and announce the statewide mask mandate.  Let the GOP fight it.  This is a much NARROWER mandate.  Which is exactly what the SC said would have to happen.  He isn't shutting down anything for an emergency.  This is a separate issue, and if the GOP wants to fight it, you let them.  And then when they do, you announce it every week at your Friday press conference. 

Again, this is why I see Tony Evers and his admin as a bunch of feckless cowards.  He's the captain of this rudderless ship and he will be blamed by voters.  Mark my words.

Politics isn't won or lost in a court of law, but in a court of opinion.  You SHOW the public that you tried.  And that you tried EVERY WEEK.

I don’t mean to argue with you, as viscerally I agree. Completely.

But the court has ruled and as a fairly far left Dem, I don’t want Democrats ignoring the law. That is what republicans do.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 22, 2020, 08:43:27 PM

Quote from: Jockey on July 22, 2020, 08:09:49 PM

I don’t mean to argue with you, as viscerally I agree. Completely.

But the court has ruled and as a fairly far left Dem, I don’t want Democrats ignoring the law. That is what republicans do.

They struck down the shut down order.  Not every executive order.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 22, 2020, 09:11:26 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on July 22, 2020, 08:36:06 AM

Earlier in the thread, there was discussion of the economic impact of COVID on hospitals. Now, another problem looms; an accelerated timeline to the insolvency of Medicare Part A (hospital payments).

Another problem on the health horizon: Medicare is running out of money

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/07/21/npr-another-problem-on-the-health-horizon-medicare-is-running-out-of-money

With record numbers of Americans out of work, fewer payroll taxes are rolling in to fund Medicare spending, the number of beneficiaries is rising, and Congress dipped into Medicare's reserves to help fund the COVID-19 relief efforts this spring.
...

In April, Medicare's trustees reported that the Part A trust fund, which pays for hospital and other inpatient care, would start to run out of money in 2026. That is the same as the projection in 2019. But the trustees cautioned at the time that their projections did not include the impact of COVID-19 on the trust fund.

"Given the uncertainty associated with these impacts, the Trustees believe that it is not possible to adjust the estimates accurately at this time," said the report.

So Shulkin, now a senior fellow at the Leonard Davis Institute of Health Economics at the University of Pennsylvania, did his own projections in early July. Given even a conservative estimate of how many workers and businesses would not be contributing payroll taxes that finance Part A spending, he said, the trust fund could become insolvent as early as 2022 or 2023.

"I think this is something that needs more immediate attention," he said.

Others who make projections agree the insolvency date is getting closer, maybe not as close as 2022.

The Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, a nonpartisan group of budget experts focused on fiscal policy, estimates that the pandemic will cause the Part A trust fund to be unable to pay all of its bills starting in late 2023 or early 2024. "But we're still very close," said Marc Goldwein, the group's senior vice president.

-----------------

I don't know what the long-term picture will look like, but it is clear that COVID will dramatically impact how healthcare is provided and paid for in the US.

My own opinion is that the country still isn't ready for an all-out switch to the single-payer system demanded by the far left. Instead, we will move back to a strengthened version of the ACA, with a guarantee of Medicare for anyone who falls through the cracks. And inevitably, we will need to improve the reimbursement methodologies used by Medicare (moving from fee for service to outcome-oriented payments). Too many details to even fathom at the moment, but COVID will inevitably accelerate the shakeup that has been brewing.

Trump is insisting that suspension of SS and Medicare taxes Be part of the next stimulus.

Title: Re:
Post by: MU82 on July 23, 2020, 08:59:06 AM

Quote from: Jockey on July 23, 2020, 12:57:42 AM

As I have said here numerous times, cruelty IS the point.

Thankfully, Mnuchin said this morning that the payroll tax cut is now off the table because it was standing in the way of stimulus negotiations.

The last thing we need to do now is weaken these already struggling plans that millions and millions and millions of Americans rely upon.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on July 23, 2020, 09:32:31 AM

State of Florida had more new cases last week than the entire continent of Europe.    Including Sweden.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on July 23, 2020, 09:59:52 AM

Quote from: tower912 on July 23, 2020, 09:32:31 AM

State of Florida had more new cases last week than the entire continent of Europe.    Including Sweden.

Does this mean Ron DeSantis won't be getting his apology?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on July 23, 2020, 10:07:24 AM

I confess skepticism.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on July 23, 2020, 03:13:49 PM

Stephen Miller’s Grandmother died of COVID-19. Her son, Miller’s Uncle, shows Death Certificate cause of death, blames Trump Administration. White House denies she died of COVID-19.


https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/07/stephen-millers-grandmother-died-of-covid-19-her-son-blames-the-trump-administration/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 23, 2020, 03:31:37 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on July 23, 2020, 03:13:49 PM

Stephen Miller’s Grandmother died of COVID-19. Her son, Miller’s Uncle, shows Death Certificate cause of death, blames Trump Administration. White House denies she died of COVID-19.


https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/07/stephen-millers-grandmother-died-of-covid-19-her-son-blames-the-trump-administration/

I mean, this really can't be what the White House said right?  I mean, I guess I should know better, but that is a bad, bad look:

"This is categorically false, and a disgusting use of so-called journalism when the family deserves privacy to mourn the loss of a loved one. His grandmother did not pass away from COVID. She was diagnosed with COVID in March and passed away in July so that timeline does not add up at all. His grandmother died peacefully in her sleep from old age. I would hope that you would choose not to go down this road."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 23, 2020, 03:36:07 PM

---

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 23, 2020, 03:31:37 PM

I mean, this really can't be what the White House said right?  I mean, I guess I should know better, but that is a bad, bad look:

"This is categorically false, and a disgusting use of so-called journalism when the family deserves privacy to mourn the loss of a loved one. His grandmother did not pass away from COVID. She was diagnosed with COVID in March and passed away in July so that timeline does not add up at all. His grandmother died peacefully in her sleep from old age. I would hope that you would choose not to go down this road."

You’re still surprised by something the WH said?

Shame on you for your willful ignorance.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on July 23, 2020, 04:54:28 PM

In press conferences we keep hearing how "they should have stopped this" in regards to COVID. That the blame is on China for not getting this under control. It drives me nuts.

We had warning. We knew it existed, what it was, and what could be done to mitigate the spread. And we have failed miserably. We are the worst in the world, and that is our fault. If we couldn't control this at all, with prior warning, and knowledge. Isn't it absurd to criticize another nation for "not controlling it" when it is no longer spreading on their turf, but spreading like wild-fire on ours.

What China could have done better, and should have done in terms of transparency is an open question. But there was no stopping this from getting out of China. It was up to each nation to take proper measures then to stop spread within their own borders. What nation has failed worse in that regards than the rest. It is time we own that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 23, 2020, 04:59:26 PM

Right, the "blaming China" line may have made sense in March.  It makes no sense now.  Other countries with similar resources have figured it out.  We dropped the ball.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 23, 2020, 05:01:22 PM

It’s frustrating but unless you haven’t accepted what is happening, it rings hollow.  As did blaming Fauci, then the governors, etc. 

This is a direct result of our policy choices. We bet on summer lull and have been burned.  Too many other countries in control at this point to make it seem like a different outcome wasn’t possible. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 23, 2020, 05:03:01 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 15, 2020, 09:19:15 PM

Health wise
- States are in charge
- Get a vaccine quick as that is the only solution
- Epidemic is being overblown


Economic wise
- make a temporary as possible
- give money to people in phase one
- push fed to lend
- keep businesses viable and hope for quick SnapBack

Political
- hope for the summer lull
- get people to vote
- hope the vaccine comes before second wave or election

By the way here is what I called the policy back in June.  I don’t think I would change anything on that list.  Sadly

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 23, 2020, 05:38:47 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 23, 2020, 04:59:26 PM

Right, the "blaming China" line may have made sense in March.  It makes no sense now.  Other countries with similar resources have figured it out.  We dropped the ball.

Great leaders and societies accept blame and try and fix their mistakes.  This isn’t solely a blame the bad orange man, many Americans have become this way, but we blame others for our travails instead of accepting responsibility for our actions.  It’s weird, because as a nation, we are often quick to or once were, accept the apology and move forward

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 23, 2020, 05:43:39 PM

Quote from: forgetful on July 23, 2020, 04:54:28 PM

In press conferences we keep hearing how "they should have stopped this" in regards to COVID. That the blame is on China for not getting this under control. It drives me nuts.

We had warning. We knew it existed, what it was, and what could be done to mitigate the spread. And we have failed miserably. We are the worst in the world, and that is our fault. If we couldn't control this at all, with prior warning, and knowledge. Isn't it absurd to criticize another nation for "not controlling it" when it is no longer spreading on their turf, but spreading like wild-fire on ours.

What China could have done better, and should have done in terms of transparency is an open question. But there was no stopping this from getting out of China. It was up to each nation to take proper measures then to stop spread within their own borders. What nation has failed worse in that regards than the rest. It is time we own that.

Just a repetition of Trump's never ending attempt to shift blame away from his own inactions. Today Kelly Ann Conway shifted the blame to states for opening up too fast.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 23, 2020, 05:46:39 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 23, 2020, 04:59:26 PM

Right, the "blaming China" line may have made sense in March.  It makes no sense now.  Other countries with similar resources have figured it out.  We dropped the ball.

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 23, 2020, 05:01:22 PM

It’s frustrating but unless you haven’t accepted what is happening, it rings hollow.  As did blaming Fauci, then the governors, etc. 

This is a direct result of our policy choices. We bet on summer lull and have been burned.  Too many other countries in control at this point to make it seem like a different outcome wasn’t possible.

Agree on both points. Blaming others might make sense to a point, but when other countries figured it out and his administration didn't, the buck has to stop somewhere. He, regrettably, keeps pointing at the same 'villains' and occasionally tries to throw in a new one....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 23, 2020, 06:57:28 PM

Quote from: tower912 on July 23, 2020, 09:32:31 AM

State of Florida had more new cases last week than the entire continent of Europe.    Including Sweden.

The guy at the top of the ticket just had to cancel the GOP convention. You know, the one that was supposed to take place in Jacksonville, where he moved it, whining and stomping, because the mean governor of NC would not guarantee an SRO crowd in Charlotte with no masks and no social distancing in the middle of a "hoax" pandemic.

Can't make this shyte up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 23, 2020, 07:36:09 PM

There has been a lot of support brewing for a cheap low sensitive test for covid (think paper strips ~15 mins). It would only detect the largest viral loads which typically occur before symptoms begin.  Seems like a cheap and easy way to find the sick at their sickest and keep them home.  Too easy?  Here is a pictorial.

https://twitter.com/jonasheidelberg/status/1284992137180917761?s=21 (https://twitter.com/jonasheidelberg/status/1284992137180917761?s=21)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on July 23, 2020, 08:24:01 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 23, 2020, 07:36:09 PM

There has been a lot of support brewing for a cheap low sensitive test for covid (think paper strips ~15 mins). It would only detect the largest viral loads which typically occur before symptoms begin.  Seems like a cheap and easy way to find the sick at their sickest and keep them home.  Too easy?  Here is a pictorial.

https://twitter.com/jonasheidelberg/status/1284992137180917761?s=21 (https://twitter.com/jonasheidelberg/status/1284992137180917761?s=21)

Now you got me thinking of whether there are ways to make a cheap (less than $1 per test) test that could easily be done at home that would be low sensitivity just like you mention.

Could be a potentially viable way of being able to mitigate spread. People test themselves at home each day before going to work/school, especially those in nursing/healthcare that may be exposed to at risk populations.

I wonder how cheap it would need to be to be economically viable. Business people, ideas?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 23, 2020, 08:56:54 PM

Quote from: forgetful on July 23, 2020, 08:24:01 PM

Now you got me thinking of whether there are ways to make a cheap (less than $1 per test) test that could easily be done at home that would be low sensitivity just like you mention.

Could be a potentially viable way of being able to mitigate spread. People test themselves at home each day before going to work/school, especially those in nursing/healthcare that may be exposed to at risk populations.

I wonder how cheap it would need to be to be economically viable. Business people, ideas?

Said this from the beginning.  Its our way out

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on July 23, 2020, 10:05:26 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on July 23, 2020, 08:56:54 PM

Said this from the beginning.  Its our way out

I guess my mindset of always trying to make the most sensitive and accurate test kind of blinded me from the possible benefit of a low sensitivity test.

The problem then is finding a viable method that is cheaper than dirt.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on July 23, 2020, 10:21:17 PM

It's interesting thinking about how things we typically take for granted end up being affected by COVID. I've always loved film, and am a bit of a film buff. Saw this article today about how release dates are now being pushed back an entire year.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/23/media/disney-mulan-star-wars-avatar-delays/index.html

It made me think about what the Oscars will look like for 2021. Usually in February, we might be almost a full year into a time period of little to no movie releases, particularly blockbusters.

I've been well aware of how it has impacted sports, and many other areas, but hadn't really thought about its impact in film.

Its crazy how everything has changed. How many things seem to become a new, completely unusual, normal. And how all of it is so mentally exhausting.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 24, 2020, 04:49:52 AM

Here is another connect the dots thread about something forgetful brought up early.  Masking could reduce viral load which could mean more mild infections. 


https://twitter.com/drericding/status/1286361967792394242?s=21 (https://twitter.com/drericding/status/1286361967792394242?s=21)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 24, 2020, 04:51:51 AM

Quote from: forgetful on July 23, 2020, 08:24:01 PM

I wonder how cheap it would need to be to be economically viable. Business people, ideas?

I think businesses and schools would pay $0.50-$1 a day.  Easily. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 24, 2020, 07:40:19 AM

Quote from: forgetful on July 23, 2020, 10:05:26 PM

I guess my mindset of always trying to make the most sensitive and accurate test kind of blinded me from the possible benefit of a low sensitivity test.

The problem then is finding a viable method that is cheaper than dirt.

Look to India.  They're fantastic at developing this sort of thing, and keeping the costs to a minimum.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 24, 2020, 08:01:34 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 24, 2020, 04:49:52 AM

Here is another connect the dots thread about something forgetful brought up early.  Masking could reduce viral load which could mean more mild infections. 


https://twitter.com/drericding/status/1286361967792394242?s=21 (https://twitter.com/drericding/status/1286361967792394242?s=21)

Yep. Too many people are focusing solely on whether a cloth mask can block transmission, when in fact they only need to reduce it to have a dramatic impact on overall spread.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on July 24, 2020, 08:19:51 AM

The United States Rowing Team, ages 23-37 would like everyone to know the difficulties of COVID-19, over a dozen tested positive and suffered symptoms for as much as 40 days: (Spoiler alert, no masks were worn)

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/24/sports/olympics/coronavirus-us-rowing-olympics.html#click=https://t.co/5AFjQ22qsj

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on July 24, 2020, 07:26:18 PM

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/24/us/texas-starr-county-hospital-coronavirus/index.html

People should be appalled by this and there should be national outcries. Possibly sending people home to die.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 24, 2020, 07:29:33 PM

Quote from: forgetful on July 24, 2020, 07:26:18 PM

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/24/us/texas-starr-county-hospital-coronavirus/index.html

People should be appalled by this and there should be national outcries. Possibly sending people home to die.

“ Those patients who most certainly don't have any hope of improving, we believe they are better taken care of within their own family in the love of their own home rather than thousands of miles away, dying in a hospital room alone," Vasquez said.”

Actually...I would rather be sent thousands of miles away.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 24, 2020, 08:16:44 PM

Quote from: forgetful on July 24, 2020, 07:26:18 PM

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/24/us/texas-starr-county-hospital-coronavirus/index.html

People should be appalled by this and there should be national outcries. Possibly sending people home to die.

This is unconscionable. It’s one thing when terminal patients ask to die at home with their families, but sending them home to ‘clear space’ should never happen in any wealthy country.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on July 24, 2020, 09:17:40 PM

Death panels, literally.
How awful for the medical personnel as well as the patient.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on July 24, 2020, 11:11:07 PM

Sinclair Broadcasting owns roughly 300 stations in 100 markets, plus all Fox Sports Regionals. This weekend they are airing a segment that suggests that Dr. Fauci created COVID-19. This is dangerous. People will unnecessarily die because of this
Sinclair is a very dangerous entity:


https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/1286864655550500868?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on July 25, 2020, 05:04:44 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on July 24, 2020, 11:11:07 PM

Sinclair Broadcasting owns roughly 300 stations in 100 markets, plus all Fox Sports Regionals. This weekend they are airing a segment that suggests that Dr. Fauci created COVID-19. This is dangerous. People will unnecessarily die because of this
Sinclair is a very dangerous entity:


https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/1286864655550500868?s=19

Apparently the pulled back and won't air it. That's very good. Disprovable nonsense has no place on news  as "alternate points of view".

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 25, 2020, 06:26:38 PM

Quote from: ZaLiN on July 25, 2020, 05:04:44 PM

Apparently the pulled back and won't air it. That's very good. Disprovable nonsense has no place on news  as "alternate points of view".

You mean “alternative facts”.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 25, 2020, 07:02:11 PM

Quote from: ZaLiN on July 25, 2020, 05:04:44 PM

Apparently the pulled back and won't air it. That's very good. Disprovable nonsense has no place on news  as "alternate points of view".

Actually, they are still saying thy hope to air it next week.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on July 25, 2020, 07:35:53 PM

Quote from: ZaLiN on July 25, 2020, 05:04:44 PM

Apparently the pulled back and won't air it. That's very good. Disprovable nonsense has no place on news  as "alternate points of view".

Yep I saw that. But Sinclair will do something similar again. This one was so over the top and caught a lot of attention beyond their target audience, that they backed down. This is why it is important to immediately speak up and call people out on some of these things in these situations. It may sound dramatic but in this example, it probably saved some lives. And that's a good thing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on July 25, 2020, 08:06:36 PM

To be fair...a lot of you get your news from CNN, and I just wish you'd call them what they are

https://www.projectveritas.com/news/exposecnnpart1/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 25, 2020, 08:16:28 PM

Quote from: muguru on July 25, 2020, 08:06:36 PM

To be fair...a lot of you get your news from CNN, and I just wish you'd call them what they are

https://www.projectveritas.com/news/exposecnnpart1/

Project Veritas. Lol. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on July 25, 2020, 08:38:46 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 25, 2020, 08:16:28 PM

Project Veritas. Lol.

See, this is the kind of sh*t that pisses me off.....Anytime you present a liberal with FACTS they immediately dismiss it as being bunk etc. Why?? I get you're a liberal(and so are many others) but god dammit at least be reasonable..you can't(and it's all liberals really) just summarily dismiss something because you get presented with facts. It's annoying. This isn't doctored video, this isn't a conspiracy theory, it's not something I made up on my own...this is an actual former employee who was interviewed with actual tape recordings of the CNN president proving his distaste for trump. I mean come on man, be reasonable here, you don't have to like it, but this is factual, legitimate footage. It's that simple.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 25, 2020, 08:50:46 PM

Quote from: muguru on July 25, 2020, 08:38:46 PM

See, this is the kind of sh*t that pisses me off.....Anytime you present a liberal with FACTS they immediately dismiss it as being bunk etc. Why?? I get you're a liberal(and so are many others) but god dammit at least be reasonable..you can't(and it's all liberals really) just summarily dismiss something because you get presented with facts. It's annoying. This isn't doctored video, this isn't a conspiracy theory, it's not something I made up on my own...this is an actual former employee who was interviewed with actual tape recordings of the CNN president proving his distaste for trump. I mean come on man, be reasonable here, you don't have to like it, but this is factual, legitimate footage. It's that simple.

I don’t watch CNN so I really don’t care.

Anyone who thinks Project Veritas is a legit news source might as well have worms eating his brain.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 25, 2020, 09:36:32 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 25, 2020, 08:50:46 PM

I don’t watch CNN so I really don’t care.

Anyone who thinks Project Veritas is a legit news source might as well have worms eating his brain.

And same can be said for anyone who views CNN as a legitimate news source.  Right??

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 25, 2020, 10:42:02 PM

Quote from: muguru on July 25, 2020, 08:38:46 PM

Anytime you present a liberal with FACTS they immediately dismiss it as being bunk etc.

James O'Keefe and Project Veritas are the diametric opposite of facts.

Quote from: muguru on July 25, 2020, 08:38:46 PM

This isn't doctored video

LOL. Do you know anything about O'Keefe?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 25, 2020, 10:51:36 PM

Summer Family Bible conference was held by Andrew Wommack, a preacher who has openly defied state public health restrictions on church gatherings.

“I have respectfully refused to comply with the artificial limit on the number of people who can attend,” wrote Wommack in a Facebook post. “We are firmly in the ‘crosshairs’ of our liberal state government. Liberty Counsel has agreed to represent us, and we are fighting back. I believe it is not only our constitutional right but our duty to stop this extreme overreach of government that allows people to riot and pillage but not assemble to worship the Lord.”

Now for the shocking ending:

Subsequently, the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment traced an outbreak of COVID-19 to that event, “with seven staff members and fifteen attendees testing positive.”

As a result, Wommack has canceled his upcoming in-person “healing conference” and will be live streaming the event for his parishioners instead.

Wommack in a statement. “If it was just me, I believe that if I touch someone, they’ll catch my healing instead of me catching their sickness.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on July 25, 2020, 11:07:45 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 25, 2020, 08:16:28 PM

Project Veritas. Lol.

I just hum the song "Roxanne" by The Police and instead change the words to "You don't have to fall for that gaslight, Roxanne"

Don't fall for the gaslight, the distraction, the subject change.

What we have is a company that owns a lot of tv stations (hundreds), in a lot of cities, that was going to air a segment that said that Dr. Fauci created COVID-19. And, that company admitted this was true, tried to deny responsibility, calling it airing both sides, ...and then after even more backlash, decided not to air it. Source: The Company itself.

"Roxanne, you don't have to fall for that gaslight, Roxanne..." Lol.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on July 25, 2020, 11:21:25 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 25, 2020, 09:36:32 PM

And same can be said for anyone who views CNN as a legitimate news source.  Right??

Actually, CNN is probably more equivalent of Fox News.  Both legitimate news sources, each one biased in a different direction.  They also both have certain personalities that are "crazy" in one bias - but not necessarily one more than the other.

Fortunately they both report Covid-19 news.  So I encourage you all to followed whatever news source you like, and report COVID-19 information here!  Get it?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 26, 2020, 08:16:45 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on July 25, 2020, 11:21:25 PM

Actually, CNN is probably more equivalent of Fox News.  Both legitimate news sources, each one biased in a different direction.  They also both have certain personalities that are "crazy" in one bias - but not necessarily one more than the other.

Fortunately they both report Covid-19 news.  So I encourage you all to followed whatever news source you like, and report COVID-19 information here!  Get it?

Well said, Captain. Both generally seem to get the facts correct, but then they spin them in opposite directions. Fox has done this forever; CNN's strong spin is more recent...but they do the same thing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on July 26, 2020, 08:38:01 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on July 25, 2020, 11:21:25 PM

Actually, CNN is probably more equivalent of Fox News.  Both legitimate news sources, each one biased in a different direction.  They also both have certain personalities that are "crazy" in one bias - but not necessarily one more than the other.

Fortunately they both report Covid-19 news.  So I encourage you all to followed whatever news source you like, and report COVID-19 information here!  Get it?

This is good in theory, however when you have one side that no matter what you post will immediately disregard it as false because it contradicts everything they WANT to believe about it, and no amount of facts/science will change their minds, it seems to be a worthless endeavor.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on July 26, 2020, 08:47:06 AM

Quote from: muguru on July 26, 2020, 08:38:01 AM

This is good in theory, however when you have one side that no matter what you post will immediately disregard it as false because it contradicts everything they WANT to believe about it, and no amount of facts/science will change their minds, it seems to be a worthless endeavor.

You generalize too much.  Most individuals here are reasonable.  Try having a discussion rather than an argument and almost everyone in the population can be reasonable.  And after that discussion, it's OK if both sides still have different individual beliefs. 

Plus, I know your statement is referring to those "damn libs", but try reading it thinking that Jockey wrote it.  Actually, it could be something he wrote.  The door swings both ways.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 26, 2020, 08:51:39 AM

Someone posted on Scoop several weeks ago a really good graph of news sources and where they fall on the spectrum and how much of their content is BS.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on July 26, 2020, 09:08:48 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on July 26, 2020, 08:47:06 AM

You generalize too much.  Most individuals here are reasonable.  Try having a discussion rather than an argument and almost everyone in the population can be reasonable.  And after that discussion, it's OK if both sides still have different individual beliefs. 

Plus, I know your statement is referring to those "damn libs", but try reading it thinking that Jockey wrote it.  Actually, it could be something he wrote.  The door swings both ways.

I'd love to be able to have conversations with anyone here, but most here will not engage. You can post a simple link without comment, and they will automatically trash it as not being real, or accurate, because it doesn't support THEIR position. Look all over in these threads..it's everywhere. Yes, it may go both ways, but it is way more the left here than it is the right, and they don't hide it either.

Take for example two instances..one being the Project Veritas link I posted exposing CNN for their bias. I did it as a test..and I knew it would get the responses it did. Who was the first to jump on it?? Fluffy followed by Tony Smith. IMMEDIATELY dismisses Project Veritas as being legit, because even though he says he doesn't watch CNN he is "very liberal"(his own words), it doesn't fit his narrative as to what he WANTS to believe. Why?? Why can't we have reasonable discourse, open our eyes some and realize that "hey, maybe I don't believe all of this, but this was kind of eye opening because it's coming from a former employee", instead of just laughing at it and dismissing it completely. If I posted the same thing about Fox news or OAN, what do you think those same people would have done?? Of course they would have commented about how true it was etc. They know they would have even if they won't admit it.

Or, how about the link I posted about hydroxychloroquine(without comment) as another test to see the responses and they were again EXACTLY as what I assumed they would be. Now this was a link with comments from a Yale epidemiologist, and of course guess what happened?? IMMEDIATELY dismissed and mocked for being completely false. Because obviously certain posters here know everything and certainly far more than a Yale epidemiologist, ask them, they will tell you they do. My biggest issue is...this is "science", the very same science the truthers will scream from the mountain tops that we MUST follow the science, but I guess that's only the science that THEY believe and want to preach to others that they MUST believe. Again, they know far more than anyone else about it, particularly some scientists.

As far as my statement being those "damn libs". That's not accurate. They are no longer libs, they are the radical left and whether they like it or not, admit it or not, that's exactly what they are. They have to own that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 26, 2020, 09:14:44 AM

Guru this is the COVID thread.  Post whatever you want to share on that topic, the policy, the research, the decisions.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on July 26, 2020, 09:17:26 AM

Quote from: muguru on July 26, 2020, 09:08:48 AM

Take for example two instances..one being the Project Veritas link I posted exposing CNN for their bias.

You do have to understand the irony of posting from an extremely biased source, that another source is biased.  Right?

Quote from: muguru on July 26, 2020, 09:08:48 AM

Or, how about the link I posted about hydroxychloroquine(without comment) [snip] Yale epidemiologist, ask them, they will tell you they do. My biggest issue is...this is "science"

Maybe that one scientist is right.  But you understand for every one of him, there are hundreds of other scientists that have run studies and determined that hydroxychloroquine is not useful for covid-19.  Please explain why I should believe the one scientist over all the others?  Do you understand why people might be quick to question him?

Quote from: muguru on July 26, 2020, 09:08:48 AM

As far as my statement being those "damn libs". That's not accurate. They are no longer libs, they are the radical left and whether they like it or not, admit it or not, that's exactly what they are. They have to own that.

I hope you also "own" what you are.  Radical right.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 26, 2020, 09:53:23 AM

Our testing delays are over!!

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/24/trained-dogs-sniffed-out-covid-19-infections-with-high-accuracy-study.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/24/trained-dogs-sniffed-out-covid-19-infections-with-high-accuracy-study.html)

On a serious note labcorp is sharing that they are getting turnaround times back to 2-3 days which is good. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 26, 2020, 10:07:15 AM

There are initial signs that new infections may be leveling off in some places, including in some of the worst hot spots.

That may be most visible in Arizona.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/24/us/coronavirus-arizona.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20200726&instance_id=20633&nl=the-morning&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=34399&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

Only a few weeks ago, Arizona was leading the nation in coronavirus infections per capita, as the virus spread across many Sun Belt states that had opened quickly in late spring. Facing a mounting crisis in June, Gov. Doug Ducey, a Republican, reversed himself and allowed cities and counties to order residents to wear masks. He also rolled back some earlier reopenings, and directed bars, indoor gyms, water parks and movie theaters to shut down again.

About a month later, the number of patients hospitalized with the virus is starting to decline. As of Friday afternoon, Arizona was the only state where known new daily cases were decreasing, a milestone that reflected, in part, just how dire conditions had been.

... States like Arizona are offering a real-time experiment.


Very interesting read. Not sure I love the idea that Arizona and a few other states are offering up their residents as guinea pigs ... but from afar, as a person who is fascinated by the science of this coronavirus, it will be interesting to watch.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on July 26, 2020, 10:27:47 AM

Quote from: MU82 on July 26, 2020, 10:07:15 AM

There are initial signs that new infections may be leveling off in some places, including in some of the worst hot spots.

That may be most visible in Arizona.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/24/us/coronavirus-arizona.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20200726&instance_id=20633&nl=the-morning&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=34399&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

Only a few weeks ago, Arizona was leading the nation in coronavirus infections per capita, as the virus spread across many Sun Belt states that had opened quickly in late spring. Facing a mounting crisis in June, Gov. Doug Ducey, a Republican, reversed himself and allowed cities and counties to order residents to wear masks. He also rolled back some earlier reopenings, and directed bars, indoor gyms, water parks and movie theaters to shut down again.

About a month later, the number of patients hospitalized with the virus is starting to decline. As of Friday afternoon, Arizona was the only state where known new daily cases were decreasing, a milestone that reflected, in part, just how dire conditions had been.

... States like Arizona are offering a real-time experiment.


Very interesting read. Not sure I love the idea that Arizona and a few other states are offering up their residents as guinea pigs ... but from afar, as a person who is fascinated by the science of this coronavirus, it will be interesting to watch.

Interesting, and a sign that masking among other interventions have an impact. But the stabilization is at 90% ICU capacity. That's... Not sustainable.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on July 26, 2020, 10:35:21 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 26, 2020, 09:53:23 AM

Our testing delays are over!!

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/24/trained-dogs-sniffed-out-covid-19-infections-with-high-accuracy-study.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/24/trained-dogs-sniffed-out-covid-19-infections-with-high-accuracy-study.html)

On a serious note labcorp is sharing that they are getting turnaround times back to 2-3 days which is good.

I read the "trained dogs part" then the bolded, and my brain just automatically changed it to "Labra-corp".

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 26, 2020, 11:26:26 AM

Quote from: muguru on July 26, 2020, 08:38:01 AM

This is good in theory, however when you have one side that no matter what you post will immediately disregard it as false because it contradicts everything they WANT to believe about it, and no amount of facts/science will change their minds, it seems to be a worthless endeavor.

Irony meter just broke

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on July 26, 2020, 11:31:42 AM

Some interesting data that i would like to hear people's perspective on...This is talking about deaths from Covid based on whether it's a "red" state or a "blue" state...

Andrew Follett
@AndrewCFollett
·
1h
Ultimately, the question comes down to how you declare "red state" or "blue state." I defined this in three different ways.

Andrew Follett
@AndrewCFollett
·
1h
First, was by the party of the state governor (counted DC's mayor as the de-facto governor).

Cons, this is open to misinterpretation as many states commonly considered "deep red" like Montana have Democratic governors while "deep blue" states like Vermont have GOP governors.

Andrew Follett
@AndrewCFollett
·
1h
By first method, "Red States" have about half the deaths of "Blue States."

Red Gov Avg per 100k: 21.43 (214.3 per million)

Blue Gov Avg per 100k: 42.41 (424.1 per million)

Andrew Follett
@AndrewCFollett
·
1h
Second, this second method was to look at  electoral voting in the 2008, 2012, and 2016 Presidential elections.

If a state voted for a Republican in all three elections it was dubbed a "Red" while if it voted for a Democrat in all three elections it was dubbed a "Blue"

Andrew Follett
@AndrewCFollett
·
1h
Any other result was a "Purple State" and given own category.

I have used this method before when crunching numbers for the Caller as it tends to better mesh with what the average individual considers a "red state" or "blue state."

Andrew Follett
@AndrewCFollett
·
1h
By this method, "Red States" have less than a third the deaths of "Blue States." In my opinion, this is probably the best method.

Red POTUS Avg per 100k:  15.24 (152.4 per million)

Blue POTUS Avg per 100k: 49.13 (491.3 per million

Purple per 100k: 33.57 (335.7 per million).

Andrew Follett
@AndrewCFollett
·
1h
Third, if limited to "just" 2016 Presidential votes, the results are roughly similar to the second method with Blue States having roughly 2.5 times more deaths than Red States.

Andrew Follett
@AndrewCFollett
·
1h
This is much simpler to explain, but probably less accurate.
 
Red 2016 POTUS Avg per 100k:  19.52 (195.2 per million)   

Blue 2016 POTUS Avg per 100k: 48.75 (487.5 per million)

Andrew Follett
@AndrewCFollett
·
1h
Overall, it seems that the disparity in deaths between red and blue states has actually INCREASED relative to previous months.

Obviously, this may not be the case in future weeks or months. It is also quite possible this disparity could be narrowed by other counting methods.

Andrew Follett
@AndrewCFollett
·
1h
Now, is this is partially due to the fact that Blue States are less rural than Red States...Blue tends to have marginally higher population densities in general.

But using per capita data generally accounts for that disparity.

Andrew Follett
@AndrewCFollett
·
1h
My point here is that this data is accurate, and that I can EASILY use it to make this case.

Many states like Connecticut have been far more disastrous with their data transparency than Flordia...but WaPo doesn't care because they're out to destroy @RonDeSantisFL

Anyone have some REASONABLE points to make on this?? Rather than just dismissing it as something you may not want to see/believe?? It uses data to make the case, there's no arguing that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 26, 2020, 11:33:46 AM

Guru - with all due respect, dont post the comments section of twitter in an html board and expect anyone to reasonably respond.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on July 26, 2020, 11:44:38 AM

The color of a state is moot to me.   Florida currently 'red', may be 'blue' after November.    The virus doesn't care.   All it cares about is the next susceptible host.   The way to defeat it is masks, hygiene, social distancing.  Deprive it of routes of infection.    It has been shown to work around the world.   And when you let up for even a second, the virus explodes.   This isn't political.   This has been shown all around the world every single time.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on July 26, 2020, 11:50:10 AM

I'd say looking at Red/Blue is one way to break it down to try to divide people more.  At least he was using per 100k stats.  But looking at it in terms of population density (or % of population) would be interesting too - and I'd guess it would swing stats the opposite direction (wild guess).

Like tower said - this really shouldn't be a red/blue debate.  That's just for folks that get their jollies off of their politics "winning".

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on July 26, 2020, 11:55:20 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on July 26, 2020, 11:50:10 AM

I'd say looking at Red/Blue is one way to break it down to try to divide people more.  At least he was using per 100k stats.  But looking at it in terms of population density (or % of population) would be interesting too - and I'd guess it would swing stats the opposite direction (wild guess).

Like tower said - this really shouldn't be a red/blue debate.  That's just for folks that get their jollies off of their politics "winning".

You made the entire point exactly, it shouldn't be political...yet so many have made it political, why?? And what these tweets were referencing was the "hit piece" Wapo did on Florida and how Ron Desantis has handled it, and it was filled with so many contradictions, misinterpretations, and flat out political agenda. The tweeter even stated himself, that this shouldn't be made political.(and that's why he tweeted those things out to show that "Hey if you want to make this political we can" yet Wapo did..why?? They aren't the only one's guilty of that by any means, but just one example of it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on July 26, 2020, 11:56:15 AM

There appears to be correlations with population densities.   The meat processing plants are still employee dense.    Then flare ups that come from churches, bars, parties.   Time after time.   And somehow, Americans cannot or refuse to learn.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on July 26, 2020, 11:59:25 AM

Quote from: muguru on July 26, 2020, 11:55:20 AM

You made the entire point exactly, it shouldn't be political...yet so many have made it political, why?? And what these tweets were referencing was the "hit piece" Wapo did on Florida and how Ron Desantis has handled it, and it was filled with so many contradictions, misinterpretations, and flat out political agenda. The tweeter even stated himself, that this shouldn't be made political.(and that's why he tweeted those things out to show that "Hey if you want to make this political we can" yet Wapo did..why?? They aren't the only one's guilty of that by any means, but just one example of it.

The fact that the guy bungling the Florida response is a politician doesn't make reporting said politician political.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 26, 2020, 12:17:38 PM

Quote from: muguru on July 26, 2020, 11:55:20 AM

it was filled with so many contradictions, misinterpretations, and flat out political agenda.

Much like DeSantis himself, who was demanding an apology early on when Florida was fortunate to temporarily -- very temporarily -- avoid the worst of COVID-19.

Same, of course, is true of his overlord, who 5 months ago today said that U.S. coronavirus cases would be "close to zero ... within days."

Only after at least 4 months of accepted science that masks work has he apparently realized that mask-wearing is not some kind of liberal plot. Only after 6+ months of accepted science has he come to grips with the fact that stuffing an arena with 20,000, non-mask-wearing, non-socially-distancing mouth-breathers is probably bad. When will he apologize to the NC governor for ripping him, calling him names, lying about the governor's reasons for not letting the GOP convention take place in a packed Charlotte arena, etc? Only one of the 2 people in that conversation had an ulterior motive, and it sure as hell wasn't the governor.

If only the emperor had accepted the science months and months and months ago, I wonder how many tens of thousands fewer Americans would be dead. We'll never know.

It's like Wojo suddenly realizing that a little zone defense might work well 3-4 years after he should have tried it. Except Wojo's stubbornness never killed anybody (that we know of).

Can't settle for "mediocrity" from a basketball coach ... but bowing in reverence to a con-artist politician who has failed spectacularly in dealing with the only 2 crises he has faced under his watch, including one in which nearly 150K Americans have died.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 26, 2020, 12:41:44 PM

Sure, it's Sunday, I'll play along...

Quote from: muguru on July 26, 2020, 09:08:48 AM

I'd love to be able to have conversations with anyone here, but most here will not engage. You can post a simple link without comment,

You want to “have conversations” but you are upset that “you can’t post a simple link without comment”? How is it a conversation if no one is allowed to comment? What you actually seem upset about it that when you post a link, people push back. It seems your idea of a conversation is: guru posts a link and everyone praises it as insightful truth without questioning it.

Quote from: muguru on July 26, 2020, 09:08:48 AM

Take for example two instances..one being the Project Veritas link I posted exposing CNN... IMMEDIATELY dismisses Project Veritas as being legit,

It was immediately dismissed as laughable not being legit because, well, Project Veritas is simply not legit. Again, do you know anything about James O’Keefe? You posted “this isn’t some doctored video”. That is literally what O’Keefe does. Here is from his bio when you google him (emphasis mine):

“James Edward O'Keefe III is an American conservative political conspiracy theorist and provocateur. He produces secretly recorded undercover audio and video encounters in academic, governmental, and social service organizations, purporting to show abusive or allegedly illegal behavior by employees and/or representatives of those organizations. He has selectively edited videos to misrepresent the context of the conversations and the subjects' responses, creating the false impression that people said or did things they did not.”

Doctoring videos is exactly what O’Keefe does. So again, you want people to simply swallow your links without the slightest bit of research and you get upset when people don’t thank you for providing such insight. Maybe you want to be a bit more skeptical, or at least knowledgeable, about the sources you are posting.

Quote from: muguru on July 26, 2020, 09:08:48 AM

Or, how about the link I posted about hydroxychloroquine(without comment)...from a Yale epidemiologist <snip> IMMEDIATELY dismissed and mocked for being completely false. <snip> My biggest issue is...this is "science", the very same science the truthers will scream from the mountain tops that we MUST follow the science,

Yeah, only it isn’t really science when you are citing non-scientific studies. The Yale professor cites, amongst others, the studies by Raoult, Gautret, and Zelenko, none of which were controlled studies. You don’t have to take my word for it, you can simply google it and see that by the author’s own admission, these were not randomized trials. Hell, in one case patients weren’t even tested to see if they had COVID to start with. So you’ve got purely anecdotal information here, which is not scientific in any way. On the other side of the argument, you now have study after study of properly randomized, properly controlled studies that show HCQ provides no benefit in treating COVID-19.

That’s the science. And yes, the science should be followed, not anecdotes about how people who may or may not have had COVID in the first place managed to avoid hospitalization if only they were given HCQ early enough.

I have absolutely no idea why a Yale professor would stake his reputation on citing a bunch of studies that, as a professional, he must know are not scientifically valid by their authors’ own admission. Appealing to his authority and expertise falls apart, however, when the studies he is citing to support his case are junk science to start with.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 26, 2020, 12:50:52 PM

Quote from: muguru on July 26, 2020, 11:55:20 AM

You made the entire point exactly, it shouldn't be political...yet so many have made it political, why?? And what these tweets were referencing was the "hit piece" Wapo did on Florida and how Ron Desantis has handled it, and it was filled with so many contradictions, misinterpretations, and flat out political agenda. The tweeter even stated himself, that this shouldn't be made political.(and that's why he tweeted those things out to show that "Hey if you want to make this political we can" yet Wapo did..why?? They aren't the only one's guilty of that by any means, but just one example of it.

I live in Florida. The state, including executive office of the governor, is our company’s client. I’ve worked with them for almost 2 decades. He has done nothing to stem the tide of covid.
We had a call with the Florida department of health where we offered free of charge the ability to make the collection of Covid related data faster, easier, and more accurate. We were told that the governor has no interest in making it easier to collect Covid information.
During the lockdown, there were over 2400 complaints of businesses violating the orders. Care to guess the number where any action was taken?


Since you feel that it was a hit piece, can you give examples of where it was inaccurate and cite what DeSantis actions have been done to stem the number of covid cases in Florida? And if you cite the “Ban” on people traveling from NY/NJ, can you cite steps they are using to enforce that?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on July 26, 2020, 01:50:30 PM

Quote from: MU82 on July 26, 2020, 12:17:38 PM

Much like DeSantis himself, who was demanding an apology early on when Florida was fortunate to temporarily -- very temporarily -- avoid the worst of COVID-19.

Same, of course, is true of his overlord, who 5 months ago today said that U.S. coronavirus cases would be "close to zero ... within days."

Only after at least 4 months of accepted science that masks work has he apparently realized that mask-wearing is not some kind of liberal plot. Only after 6+ months of accepted science has he come to grips with the fact that stuffing an arena with 20,000, non-mask-wearing, non-socially-distancing mouth-breathers is probably bad. When will he apologize to the NC governor for ripping him, calling him names, lying about the governor's reasons for not letting the GOP convention take place in a packed Charlotte arena, etc? Only one of the 2 people in that conversation had an ulterior motive, and it sure as hell wasn't the governor.

If only the emperor had accepted the science months and months and months ago, I wonder how many tens of thousands fewer Americans would be dead. We'll never know.

It's like Wojo suddenly realizing that a little zone defense might work well 3-4 years after he should have tried it. Except Wojo's stubbornness never killed anybody (that we know of).

Can't settle for "mediocrity" from a basketball coach ... but bowing in reverence to a con-artist politician who has failed spectacularly in dealing with the only 2 crises he has faced under his watch, including one in which nearly 150K Americans have died.

Your hatred(something you continuously preach no one should ever do) is so obvious..But that's okay. I understand a vast majority feel this is very bad orange man's fault. Fair enough...now my question for you is, and it's a legit one(or for anyone really), were you happy/pleased with how Barry and Biden handled the H1N1 pandemic??

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on July 26, 2020, 02:22:57 PM

Quote from: muguru on July 26, 2020, 01:50:30 PM

Your hatred(something you continuously preach no one should ever do) is so obvious..But that's okay. I understand a vast majority feel this is very bad orange man's fault. Fair enough...now my question for you is, and it's a legit one(or for anyone really), were you happy/pleased with how Barry and Biden handled the H1N1 pandemic??

You're a piece of work. By any objective measure the federal government's response to Covid, led by Trump, has been embarrassingly inept and tens of thousands have died because of it. The "efforts" by DeSantis have been equally incompetent.

As for the Obama administration response to Swine flu it was certainly much more effective and competent. If you prefer I would be happy to share all of the misleading statements from Trump about the Obama response in order to shift attention away from his complete failure in regards to Covid.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on July 26, 2020, 02:28:09 PM

Quote from: muguru on July 26, 2020, 11:55:20 AM

You made the entire point exactly, it shouldn't be political...yet so many have made it political, why??

You apparently knew the answer to the question you asked.  Then you ask why people are making it political.  Then you go on to post political stuff.  Bravo.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on July 26, 2020, 02:38:12 PM

Guru, if the death totals and federal response under Obama had been what they are under Trump, how patient and understanding and energetic in your defense would you have been?


I will flat out say I would have been equally critical.   Results, effort, attitude matter.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 26, 2020, 02:48:18 PM

Quote from: tower912 on July 26, 2020, 02:38:12 PM

Guru, if the death totals and federal response under Obama had been what they are under Trump, how patient and understanding and energetic in your defense would you have been?

I will flat out say I would have been equally critical.   Results, effort, attitude matter.

Yep. According to the CDC, a total of 12,469 Americans died from H1N1. With Covid, we are at 145,942 and counting.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/2009-h1n1-pandemic.html

https://www.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/index.html#cases

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on July 26, 2020, 02:54:34 PM

Anyone get the sense, if we just shutdown all indoor dining, casinos, bars, and gave them a nice relief package to bar/restaurant owners for them and their employees, we could be in an exponentially better place?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on July 26, 2020, 03:00:32 PM

Quote from: reinko on July 26, 2020, 02:54:34 PM

Anyone get the sense, if we just shutdown all indoor dining, casinos, bars, and gave them a nice relief package to bar/restaurant owners for them and their employees, we could be in an exponentially better place?

Yep. Been saying the same thing. Yet how many PPP loans ended up in the hands of the rich instead of small businesses the needed them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on July 26, 2020, 03:19:14 PM

Agreed.   Will Desantis claim victory now that Florida is ahead of New York in COVID cases?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 26, 2020, 03:20:20 PM

Quote from: muguru on July 26, 2020, 01:50:30 PM

Your hatred(something you continuously preach no one should ever do) is so obvious..But that's okay. I understand a vast majority feel this is very bad orange man's fault. Fair enough...now my question for you is, and it's a legit one(or for anyone really), were you happy/pleased with how Barry and Biden handled the H1N1 pandemic??

I wish nobody died of H1N1. Beyond that, I defer to points others already have made in response to your classic display of whataboutism.

You fell back on that because it's impossible to defend the indefensible -- 150K dying under your guy's watch. So you don't even try ... and I don't blame you.

You are a very active poster on the Al side of Scoop, often criticizing Wojo. And that's cool. There is a lot about Wojo that deserves criticism.

Let's say Wojo went 5-26 last season. You'd be pissed, and you wouldn't be alone, and I wouldn't blame any of you. Now what if 2 starters had gotten hurt, another transferred at midseason, Stan had gotten seriously ill (a major distraction), etc.? Would you have been quick to let Wojo off the hook, or would you have said he did a horrible job and any attempt to cite those things were "excuses"? Wouldn't you call that performance "an unmitigated disaster" regardless of excuses? I mean, you have stated repeatedly that even one loss to DePaul is an inexcusable disaster.

One thing consistent about you, guru, is that you have been a "performance matters" kind of guy. Well, as "America's coach," your emperor has "led" us to almost 150K dead in 4 months, hundreds of thousands more with medical problems that could dog them their whole lives, and millions and millions of Americans out of work. Meanwhile, he has "coached" in a way that not only hasn't helped us solve racial inequity, he has actively thrown gasoline on the fire.

Obviously, all of it isn't his "fault," but HE is the one who in 2013 said: "Leadership: Whatever happens, you're responsible."

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/398887965302091776?lang=en

All of that death and misery is probably the equivalent of 10 straight 0-30 seasons. But OK, I'm feeling really, really, really generous ... so let's just say it's at least as bad as coaching a Big East program for 6 years without winning any NCAA tournament games.

Why are you so willing to settle for mediocrity? Why aren't you demanding change?

Why is it a travesty that a basketball coach make "only" 3 NCAA tourneys in 4 years without winning a postseason game, but A-OK that 150K have died in 4 months under our nation's "coach"?

Was your guy lying about what it means to be a leader? If not, why aren't you holding him to his own stated requirements for leadership?

Leadership: Whatever happens, you're responsible.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on July 26, 2020, 03:21:58 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on July 26, 2020, 12:50:52 PM

I live in Florida. The state, including executive office of the governor, is our company’s client. I’ve worked with them for almost 2 decades. He has done nothing to stem the tide of covid.
We had a call with the Florida department of health where we offered free of charge the ability to make the collection of Covid related data faster, easier, and more accurate. We were told that the governor has no interest in making it easier to collect Covid information.
During the lockdown, there were over 2400 complaints of businesses violating the orders. Care to guess the number where any action was taken?


Since you feel that it was a hit piece, can you give examples of where it was inaccurate and cite what DeSantis actions have been done to stem the number of covid cases in Florida? And if you cite the “Ban” on people traveling from NY/NJ, can you cite steps they are using to enforce that?

Well let's first start with this...or are all of these "fake" as well??

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/07/15/florida-coronavirus-tests-hospital-disputes-100-positive-report/5445139002/

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20200716/florida-reported-100-positive-covid-19-tests-from-some-labs-thats-wrong-hospital-system-says

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2020/07/15/high-coronavirus-positive-case-rate-reveals-flaws-in-florida-department-of-health-report/

There's lots more but that should be enough..now, I ask you, is there ANY logical person that can say unequivocally that if labs were reporting VERY inaccurate #'s, that the overall #'s in Florida AREN'T skewed?? They are. How do we really know how major the problem really is when they were flat out lying about #'s. Secondly, why does everyone suddenly want to bash Florida?? I will be honest, I get SO tired of people talking about cases, cases, cases. Except when it fits their narrative, then they bring up death count. To me, death count should be what matters...after all we are talking about a virus with a 99% recovery rate. What we do know is that New York, California and New Jersey(there may be others) all have higher death counts than Florida. Yet...we have everyone bashing Florida for their mishandling of it?? Really?? Miami-Dade has had over 101,000 total cases, and only 1379 deaths....013%. The next most cases in Florida is Broward with 48.187 cases and 580 deaths .01%...I mean, they are nowhere near the problem New York had, and yet Fauci praised New York saying they did it right?? Really??

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 26, 2020, 03:23:45 PM

Quote from: muguru on July 26, 2020, 11:55:20 AM

You made the entire point exactly, it shouldn't be political...yet so many have made it political, why?? And what these tweets were referencing was the "hit piece" Wapo did on Florida and how Ron Desantis has handled it, and it was filled with so many contradictions, misinterpretations, and flat out political agenda. The tweeter even stated himself, that this shouldn't be made political.(and that's why he tweeted those things out to show that "Hey if you want to make this political we can" yet Wapo did..why?? They aren't the only one's guilty of that by any means, but just one example of it.

Maybe take a break.  You're way too wrapped in the politics of this rather than the science of this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on July 26, 2020, 03:48:14 PM

Quote from: muguru on July 26, 2020, 03:21:58 PM

Well let's first start with this...or are all of these "fake" as well??

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/07/15/florida-coronavirus-tests-hospital-disputes-100-positive-report/5445139002/

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20200716/florida-reported-100-positive-covid-19-tests-from-some-labs-thats-wrong-hospital-system-says

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2020/07/15/high-coronavirus-positive-case-rate-reveals-flaws-in-florida-department-of-health-report/

There's lots more but that should be enough..now, I ask you, is there ANY logical person that can say unequivocally that if labs were reporting VERY inaccurate #'s, that the overall #'s in Florida AREN'T skewed?? They are. How do we really know how major the problem really is when they were flat out lying about #'s. Secondly, why does everyone suddenly want to bash Florida?? I will be honest, I get SO tired of people talking about cases, cases, cases. Except when it fits their narrative, then they bring up death count. To me, death count should be what matters...after all we are talking about a virus with a 99% recovery rate. What we do know is that New York, California and New Jersey(there may be others) all have higher death counts than Florida. Yet...we have everyone bashing Florida for their mishandling of it?? Really?? Miami-Dade has had over 101,000 total cases, and only 1379 deaths....013%. The next most cases in Florida is Broward with 48.187 cases and 580 deaths .01%...I mean, they are nowhere near the problem New York had, and yet Fauci praised New York saying they did it right?? Really??

If you think Florida's deaths have been reported accurately up until this point I have a wonderful timeshare for an amazing price you should look into. It's abundantly clear deaths are underrported in Florida. The state has been anything but transparent in terms of reporting.

There's a reason states like New York, New Jersey, Illinois and Michigan were hit hard early on in terms of cases and deaths. All have large, diverse cities with population density that are also major travel hubs from Europe.

Deaths lag so Florida's death count is rising and will continue to until the state gets cases under control. And you'd think common sense would tell you that death rate would be highest early on for a novel virus. That means it's new, Guru. And common sense would also tell you the death rate will probably decrease over time as more is learned about the virus and how to treat it.

America would be in great shape if it's numbers had trended like those in NY. Unfortunately that's not remotely the case.

MU82 is right. You demand perfection from MU basketball yet when it comes to this you continuously make excuses for failure.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on July 26, 2020, 03:48:34 PM

Quote from: muguru on July 25, 2020, 08:38:46 PM

this is an actual former employee who was interviewed with actual tape recordings of the CNN president proving his distaste for trump. I mean come on man, be reasonable here, you don't have to like it, but this is factual, legitimate footage. It's that simple.

Having a distaste for Trump merely proves one has functioning brain cells.
A reminder: the job of the media is to be fair, not objective. When something is an abject failure - as this country's response to COVID has been - saying so isn't "bias." It's truth.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 26, 2020, 03:49:13 PM

Quote from: muguru on July 26, 2020, 03:21:58 PM

Secondly, why does everyone suddenly want to bash Florida??

Suddenly? No. We were bashing Florida very early when it was obvious DeSantis was being an idiot and not taking it seriously. As the pandemic was ripping through the initial metro centers, he refused to shut anything down and then wanted a pat on the head when Florida wasn't immediately hit. There is nothing sudden about pointing out he was a moron.

Quote from: muguru on July 26, 2020, 03:21:58 PM

What we do know is that New York, California and New Jersey(there may be others) all have higher death counts than Florida. Yet...we have everyone bashing Florida for their mishandling of it?? Really??

Hint: The death rates everywhere have fallen, thankfully, because we have gotten better at treating patients. I mean, do you think DeSantis did something that magically made the death rates better in Florida?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on July 26, 2020, 03:53:55 PM

Quote from: MU82 on July 26, 2020, 03:20:20 PM

I wish nobody died of H1N1. Beyond that, I defer to points others already have made in response to your classic display of whataboutism.

You fell back on that because it's impossible to defend the indefensible -- 150K dying under your guy's watch. So you don't even try ... and I don't blame you.

You are a very active poster on the Al side of Scoop, often criticizing Wojo. And that's cool. There is a lot about Wojo that deserves criticism.

Let's say Wojo went 5-26 last season. You'd be pissed, and you wouldn't be alone, and I wouldn't blame any of you. Now what if 2 starters had gotten hurt, another transferred at midseason, Stan had gotten seriously ill (a major distraction), etc.? Would you have been quick to let Wojo off the hook, or would you have said he did a horrible job and any attempt to cite those things were "excuses"? Wouldn't you call that performance "an unmitigated disaster" regardless of excuses? I mean, you have stated repeatedly that even one loss to DePaul is an inexcusable disaster.

One thing consistent about you, guru, is that you have been a "performance matters" kind of guy. Well, as "America's coach," your emperor has "led" us to almost 150K dead in 4 months, hundreds of thousands more with medical problems that could dog them their whole lives, and millions and millions of Americans out of work. Meanwhile, he has "coached" in a way that not only hasn't helped us solve racial inequity, he has actively thrown gasoline on the fire.

Obviously, all of it isn't his "fault," but HE is the one who in 2013 said: "Leadership: Whatever happens, you're responsible."

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/398887965302091776?lang=en

All of that death and misery is probably the equivalent of 10 straight 0-30 seasons. But OK, I'm feeling really, really, really generous ... so let's just say it's at least as bad as coaching a Big East program for 6 years without winning any NCAA tournament games.

Why are you so willing to settle for mediocrity? Why aren't you demanding change?

Why is it a travesty that a basketball coach make "only" 3 NCAA tourneys in 4 years without winning a postseason game, but A-OK that 150K have died in 4 months under our nation's "coach"?

Was your guy lying about what it means to be a leader? If not, why aren't you holding him to his own stated requirements for leadership?

Leadership: Whatever happens, you're responsible.

He isn't perfect. What President has been?? The problem I have is everyone says he's to blame, and I always ask people A. You do realize that Governors make decisions for their own states, correct?? B. Were you expecting ZERO deaths from a worldwide pandemic?? C. What would YOU have done differently, laid out in detail that would have guaranteed a "perfect" response?? Whenever I ask that, all anyone says is "listened to the scientists" That's not an answer. What was YOUR detailed, step by step plan to defeat it??

Everyone is so quick to blame, but not give credit how quickly he closed the border to China(where it originated) that was the end of January. By many scientists(the people everyone says he should have listened to) he likely saved 100's of thousands of deaths, if not Millions. Yet, he gets no credit for that...none. In fact, your guy(and many others) called it Xenophobic. The Speaker of the house never required masks to be worn in the house until June, and she even said herself in the beginning it wasn't much to worry about and was actively inviting people to china town.

Keep in Mind, in February Dr Anthony Fauci(everyone's favorite scientist) equivocalness stated in a USA today article(probably will be scoffed at as a source, I know) That the risk of coronavirus in the US was "miniscule" laughed at needing masks, and was far more worried about the second strain of the flu that was coming thru the US at that time..https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/02/17/nih-disease-official-anthony-fauci-risk-of-coronavirus-in-u-s-is-minuscule-skip-mask-and-wash-hands/4787209002/

•Masks. The only people who need masks are those who are already infected to keep from exposing others. The masks sold at drugstores aren't even good enough to truly protect anyone, Fauci said.

"If you look at the masks that you buy in a drug store, the leakage around that doesn't really do much to protect you," he said. "People start saying, 'Should I start wearing a mask?' Now, in the United States, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to wear a mask." Now this is an interesting statement by Tony because I see lots of people(in fact some posters on here) claim that had we had a national mask mandate right away, this would not have been nearly as big of a problem. Well but wait...Fauci said himself that masks weren't necessary and don;t do anything(the same ones we are all wearing now). So was Trump listening to him then?? evidence says yes, and had he not, people would have been screaming at him for not listening.

Fauci doesn't want people to worry about coronavirus, the danger of which is "just minuscule." But he does want them to take precautions against the "influenza outbreak, which is having its second wave."

"We have more kids dying of flu this year at this time than in the last decade or more," he said. "At the same time people are worrying about going to a Chinese restaurant. The threat is (we have) a pretty bad influenza season, particularly dangerous for our children."

And then in March we had Fauci on video saying things like this:

MARK LEVIN: Welcome back. Dr. Fauci, let me ask you a question. You've been doing this a long time. Have you ever seen this big of a coordinated response by an administration to such a threat? A health threat?

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI: Well, we've never had a threat like this and the coordinated response has been, there are a number of adjectives to describe it. Impressive, I think is one of them.

I mean, we're talking about all-hands on-deck is that I, as one of many people on a team, I'm not the only person, since the beginning that we even recognized what this was. I have been devoting almost full time on this -- almost full time.

I'm down at the White House virtually every day with the Taskforce. I'm connected by phone throughout the day and into the night and when I say night, I'm talking twelve, one, two in the morning. I'm not the only one. There's a whole group of us that are doing that. It's every single day.

So I can't imagine that that under any circumstances that anybody could be doing more. I mean, obviously, we're fighting a formidable enemy -- this virus. This virus is a serious issue here.


A couple of ways to do that. The first was, as we say, all the time, the very timely decision on the part of the President to shut off travel from China, because we saw that there was this possibility of people coming in and seeding in the country. We did it early.

Second thing, when the infection burden shifted from China to Europe, we did the same thing with Europe. We shut off travel from Europe, which again was another safeguard to prevent influx from without in.


The other way you do it is by containment and mitigation. And now everybody knows what the word mitigation means because it's the things that we're doing. No crowds, work from home. Don't go to places that you can be susceptible. Ten people in a room, not 50 and a hundred people. Stay away from theatres.

Take the elderly people who are susceptible and have them do self- isolation. Stay out of bars, stay out of restaurants.

If you're in an area where there's a lot of coronavirus activity, close the bars, close the restaurants. That's heavy duty mitigation.

So I think with all of those things going on at the same time, I believe we will -- we're already doing it, but you just can't notice it yet because you have the dynamics of the virus going up. We're trying to put it down. You're not really sure quantitatively what you're doing, but you can be actually certain that we're having an impact on it

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/03
/23/fauci_the_response_of_trump_admin_has_been_impressive_i_cant_imagine_anybody_could_be_doing_more.html

So I guess I'm confused...so many say that bad orange man messed all of this up..yet the Dr everyone says he should have been listening to, PRAISED the administration's response as "impressive".

Bad orange man seemingly was listening to the science as many wanted him to do, Fauci said it himself. The same Fauci who said in the February article that the risk was "minimal", then said in the video interview a month later that it was "serious". ?-(

And in case you didn't see Orange man's interview with Mike Wallace he said:

WALLACE: California locking down again. Florida, deadliest day of the entire pandemic. Hospitals at capacity at a number of places around the country. Shortages of testing, shortages of personal protective equipment for nurses and doctors.

A lot of people say this is because we don't have a national plan. You talk about states. We don't have a national plan. Do you take responsibility for that?

TRUMP: Look, I take responsibility always for everything because it's ultimately my job, too. I have to get everybody in line.

Pretty sure that's taking responsibility, no??

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 26, 2020, 03:58:44 PM

OK I just hope you are reasonable and understanding next Marquette basketball season.  Because your standards are not very high.  When you look at similarly resourced countries around the world, we are performing very poorly.  And frankly it might get worse because the economic circumstances are going to get much worse in pretty short order.

But I'm sure you'll find someone to pass the buck to.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on July 26, 2020, 04:15:17 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on July 26, 2020, 03:49:13 PM

Suddenly? No. We were bashing Florida very early when it was obvious DeSantis was being an idiot and not taking it seriously. As the pandemic was ripping through the initial metro centers, he refused to shut anything down and then wanted a pat on the head when Florida wasn't immediately hit. There is nothing sudden about pointing out he was a moron.
Hint: The death rates everywhere have fallen, thankfully, because we have gotten better at treating patients. I mean, do you think DeSantis did something that magically made the death rates better in Florida?

North Dakota didn't shut down, didn't require masks, and trusted the people to do the right things..They have had very little issue with covid there. Now sure maybe you can say no one living there plays a part, and that's reasonable. But then why should a national lockdown and mask mandate been implemented for everyone when it simply wasn't much of a problem in some states and still isn't?? Does that seem reasonable to you?? It's not really a one size fits all type of deal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on July 26, 2020, 04:17:58 PM

What specifically would I have done?   I look at the politico article that I posted in the masks thread.   The Obama administration left behind a playbook with their lessons learned from H1N1.   I might have taken that, seen how I could improve on it instead of just tossing it in the trash.

I would have put someone competent in charge of the response.    Not Jared.

I would have federalized the supply chains and actually use the powers I claimed to make sure that all of the supplies needed got made.

I would have accepted tests from the WHO.    But only until better ones were made at home.

I would have been playing close attention to what did and didn't work elsewhere and adopted best practices and avoid things that don't work.

I would have used my social media presence to make it patriotic to wear a mask.   To bring the country together and try to get everyone pulling together.

I would have made a federal mandate to wear a mask.

I would have made getting the virus under control my number one priority, as the economy is never going to get going fast again until the.virus is contained.

And yes, I would have listened to science.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 26, 2020, 04:20:24 PM

4,163,892 cases of Trump Flu and 145,942 dead Americans from the Trump Flu while Donald J. Trump is President.  The Buck Stops Here 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 26, 2020, 04:25:04 PM

Quote from: muguru on July 26, 2020, 04:15:17 PM

North Dakota didn't shut down, didn't require masks, and trusted the people to do the right things..They have had very little issue with covid there. Now sure maybe you can say no one living there plays a part, and that's reasonable. But then why should a national lockdown and mask mandate been implemented for everyone when it simply wasn't much of a problem in some states and still isn't?? Does that seem reasonable to you?? It's not really a one size fits all type of deal.

Yes, IMO it is very reasonable for every state to adhere to the same standards for the very reason I pointed out: the lack of consistent policies in the first place, the "oh, we don't have it so no need for us to comply" is why we are the only western country to still be in the midst of the first wave of this.

It IS a one size fits all deal if we really want to beat this.

EDIT: Here is a very short, two minute video that shows why we need a simultaneous response (one-size fits all), and not a sequential response (states only close after they've already seen a spike). Try not to get your undies in a wad since it is from Rachel Maddow. If you really wanted to get information, you could search out the full interview with the infectious disease expert.
https://www.aol.com/video/partner/the-rachel-maddow-show/518886565/5f191c93c485b34c5e15b7fb/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on July 26, 2020, 04:27:38 PM

Quote from: muguru on July 26, 2020, 04:15:17 PM

North Dakota didn't shut down, didn't require masks, and trusted the people to do the right things..They have had very little issue with covid there. Now sure maybe you can say no one living there plays a part, and that's reasonable. But then why should a national lockdown and mask mandate been implemented for everyone when it simply wasn't much of a problem in some states and still isn't?? Does that seem reasonable to you?? It's not really a one size fits all type of deal.

North Dakota:

https://bismarcktribune.com/news/local/health/active-coronavirus-cases-surpass-1-000-in-north-dakota/article_2e719a93-ef64-5628-ba83-548970b09085.amp.html?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_bistrib&__twitter_impression=true

https://www.inforum.com/newsmd/coronavirus/6585265-North-Dakota-sees-record-number-of-new-COVID-19-cases-and-hospitalizations-as-virus-surges-throughout-state

https://news.prairiepublic.org/post/ndus-smart-restart-masking-testing

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on July 26, 2020, 04:29:48 PM

And I would never, ever, EVER make it about me.   That is not what leaders do during crises.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 26, 2020, 04:42:51 PM

Quote from: muguru on July 26, 2020, 03:53:55 PM

TRUMP: Look, I take responsibility always for everything because it's ultimately my job, too. I have to get everybody in line.

Pretty sure that's taking responsibility, no??

First, you are assuming he really means it. I'm guessing he didn't, the way he just flipped it out there, but sure he finally said that after having said for months and months and months that he took no responsibility.

Including, on May 13, when he flat-out said: “I don't take responsibility at all."

Your blame-Fauci stuff on masks were just Fox News talking points. For at least 4 months now, just about everybody who knows anything about this coronavirus, including Fauci, has been saying masks work, begging Americans to wear masks. And yet as recently as just a few weeks ago, your emperor was still mocking the very idea of masks. So there's that. If you want to keep falling back on 5-6 months ago, when scientists didn't want to tout masks because masks were in short supply and they were afraid that a run on masks would prevent doctors, nurses and other first-responders from getting them, cool. Hannity would be proud.

I am glad that Trump stopped non-U.S. citizens from traveling in from China. But do know that the ban was not what he has claimed it was, nor was it very effective at doing much to mitigate our problems in the U.S.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/8000-chinese-nationals-came-into-us-after-trump-travel-ban-coronavirus

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/trumps-snowballing-china-travel-claim/

Not downplaying the severity of the virus for months, encouraging the wearing of masks after everybody acknowledged they worked, not encouraging armed protesters to "liberate" states that were nowhere near having met the guidelines that he himself had put out 15 hours earlier, stuff like that ... it would have been a lot more effective than that travel ban.

Fauci messed up plenty early. But he changed his tune, and very forcefully so, when it became obvious to everybody with even half a brain that this wasn't the flu. That was early March. It took too long. He's supposed to be an expert. But thankfully he stopped saying things like the quotes you highlighted.

He is no longer praising the wonderful job your emperor did. I'm guessing that if you asked Fauci in private, any time from mid-April on, he'd say your emperor's constant downplaying of the virus, references to it in racist terms, going against his own guidelines, advocating for the injection of Lysol into human lungs, contradicting epidemiologists, the hydroxy silliness, etc, made things much worse for Americans. But sure, blame Fauci. Rush "It's The Common Cold" Limbaugh would be proud.

Quote from: muguru on July 26, 2020, 03:53:55 PM

What would YOU have done differently, laid out in detail that would have guaranteed a "perfect" response?? What was YOUR detailed, step by step plan to defeat it??

That was not my responsibility. I am not the president of the United States. I did not have scientists at my beck and call. I wasn't getting updates daily. It's a silly way to deflect from the fact that nearly 150K Americans have died on your emperor's watch, hundreds of thousands more will have lifelong medical problems, and millions more are out of jobs.

I think I can say a few things I wouldn't have done, though. I wouldn't have bragged non-stop for 2 months that I had the virus "under control." I wouldn't have threatened to withhold life-saving PPE from governors if they weren't "nice" to me. I wouldn't have issued strong guidelines for reopening states on a Thursday only to tell armed protesters to demand reopenings on Friday. I wouldn't have my surrogates attacking Fauci now. And I wouldn't keep saying that a miracle will make the virus go away.

Quote from: muguru on July 26, 2020, 03:53:55 PM

He isn't perfect. What President has been??

I dunno, guru ... right in your tag line, you say:

We live in a society that rewards mediocrity , I detest mediocrity - David Goggi ... I want this quote to serve as a reminder to the vast majority of scoop posters in regards to the MU BB program.

I have asked you multiple times why you refuse to settle for "mediocrity" from a basketball coach but why you are so willing to accept it (or worse) from the president of the United States. You have never even tried to answer it.

One has presided over 3 NCAA appearances in 4 years but has failed to win any tourney games.

The other has presided over nearly 150K American deaths from COVID-19 in a 4-month span, one of the worst recessions ever, and the most significant racial unrest since the 1960s.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 26, 2020, 05:07:38 PM

Quote from: muguru on July 26, 2020, 04:15:17 PM

North Dakota didn't shut down, didn't require masks, and trusted the people to do the right things..They have had very little issue with covid there. Now sure maybe you can say no one living there plays a part, and that's reasonable. But then why should a national lockdown and mask mandate been implemented for everyone when it simply wasn't much of a problem in some states and still isn't?? Does that seem reasonable to you?? It's not really a one size fits all type of deal.

Given its low population density, ND should have one of the lowest rates per hundred thousand people in the country.

It currently sits at 771/100k. That is higher than Ohio, Washington, Colorado, Missouri, Kentucky, Oregon and several other states with higher population densities.

That does not sound like success.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on July 26, 2020, 05:33:08 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on July 26, 2020, 05:07:38 PM

Given its low population density, ND should have one of the lowest rates per hundred thousand people in the country.

It currently sits at 771/100k. That is higher than Ohio, Washington, Colorado, Missouri, Kentucky, Oregon and several other states with higher population densities.

That does not sound like success.

Not to rail on you gooo but this is another perfect example of what I was talking about...people ONLY talk about cases when they want to make a point, and ignore death count/% only when it's convenient will they bring that up. They have had 103 total deaths, again a .01% death rate. That's pretty standard % in most states. That seems successful to me. Wanna know what NO ONE talks about?? The overall recovery %...which sits about 97-98% nationally. I mean you aren't going to get a 100% regardless of pandemic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 26, 2020, 05:43:28 PM

Welcome to analysis guru. Cases matter and how many cases you are catching matter.  10 cases per day with a 50% positivity rate is worse than 10 cases per day with a 1% positivity rate.

The only thing that matters is how many hosts with the virus are out there and do you know where it is to try to stamp out.  The rest is the outcome of what you let or not let happen. 

I should say until we find a better treatment of vaccine. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 26, 2020, 06:32:53 PM

Quote from: muguru on July 26, 2020, 05:33:08 PM

Not to rail on you gooo but this is another perfect example of what I was talking about...people ONLY talk about cases when they want to make a point, and ignore death count/% only when it's convenient will they bring that up. They have had 103 total deaths, again a .01% death rate. That's pretty standard % in most states. That seems successful to me. Wanna know what NO ONE talks about?? The overall recovery %...which sits about 97-98% nationally. I mean you aren't going to get a 100% regardless of pandemic.

You touted ND as a success story, I was just showing that ND is not a success. Case rates DO matter, positivity rates DO matter...and in a pandemic where 'recovery' often results in months of continued symptoms and possibly permanent lung damage, 'recovery rates' are cold comfort, at best.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on July 26, 2020, 06:42:45 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on July 26, 2020, 06:32:53 PM

You touted ND as a success story, I was just showing that ND is not a success. Case rates DO matter, positivity rates DO matter...and in a pandemic where 'recovery' often results in months of continued symptoms and possibly permanent lung damage, 'recovery rates' are cold comfort, at best.

Yep.
Death is the worst of the bad outcomes of COVID, but not the only bad outcome. There are long-term health consequences. There's the upheaval of being hospitalized for perhaps weeks, away from your family. There economic consequences of being sick and quarantined, both in terms of not being able to work and potentially paying for treatment. There's the fear of spreading it to your loved ones. There are psychological/emotional consequences of dealing with a potentially fatal disease.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 26, 2020, 06:53:07 PM

There is the hospital capacity being withheld from other illness or injury.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 26, 2020, 06:58:56 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on July 26, 2020, 06:42:45 PM

Yep.
Death is the worst of the bad outcomes of COVID, but not the only bad outcome. There are long-term health consequences. There's the upheaval of being hospitalized for perhaps weeks, away from your family. There economic consequences of being sick and quarantined, both in terms of not being able to work and potentially paying for treatment. There's the fear of spreading it to your loved ones. There are psychological/emotional consequences of dealing with a potentially fatal disease.

This. It is a very under-discussed thing.

My wife has a 40-year-old co-worker who got COVID-19. No pre-existing conditions. Healthy woman. Got COVID-19. Got very sick. Spent time on a ventilator. Spent a couple more weeks in the hospital after the ventilator. Finally went home after 5 weeks in the hospital. She now has scarred lungs and still has little sense of smell. Her life is messed up. But she "survived" and is not part of NC's death rate, thank goodness.

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 26, 2020, 06:53:07 PM

There is the hospital capacity being withheld from other illness or injury.

And this. One of the main points (if not THE main point) to flattening the curve is to make it so hospitals were not overrun with COVID-19 cases. Sadly, in many parts of the country, especially New York early and parts of Texas and Florida lately, there are no ICU beds available, and hospitals look like war zones with patients waiting hours on gurneys.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 26, 2020, 07:20:49 PM

OMG, the China ban saved hundreds of thousands of lives, if not millions?? Talk about delusional.

From an AP News site:
Trump’s order did not fully “close” the U.S. off to China, as he asserts. It temporarily barred entry by foreign nationals who had traveled in China within the previous 14 days, with exceptions for the immediate family of U.S. citizens and permanent residents. Americans returning from China were allowed back after enhanced screening at select ports of entry and for 14 days afterward. But U.S. scientists say screenings can miss people who don’t yet show symptoms of COVID-19; while symptoms often appear within five or six days of exposure, the incubation period is 14 days.

A recent study from the journal Science found China’s internal crackdown modestly delayed the spread of the virus. It cast doubt that travel restrictions elsewhere will do much compared with other preventive measures, citing in part the likelihood that a large number of people exposed to the virus had already been traveling internationally without being detected.

Most major airlines had already suspended flights to China prior to the announcement on Jan. 31, following the lead of several major international carriers that had stopped due to the coronavirus outbreak. Delta, American and United cited a sharp drop in demand for the flights, and an earlier State Department advisory told Americans not to travel to China because of the outbreak.

https://apnews.com/0dc271ad7f7917374a5a0cfb49273783

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 26, 2020, 07:25:41 PM

I can report that I know someone that was in China after the outbreak was known.  They were contacted 13 days after landing.  Asking them to quarantine for the full 14 days.  So late but we tried.

Since our worst outbreaks are east coast/Europe mutation...we missed the second chance to contain this...late

I’m not knocking the effort as much as saying it isn’t something to brag about...it failed

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on July 26, 2020, 07:48:37 PM

Why is Guru so fixated solely on death count being low? It's been proven that a massive percentage of people get this and end up with strokes in there 30s, lasting lung damage, and more.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 26, 2020, 07:57:53 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on July 26, 2020, 07:48:37 PM

Why is Guru so fixated solely on death count being low? It's been proven that a massive percentage of people get this and end up with strokes in there 30s, lasting lung damage, and more.

Because he is a layman who has a high level of cognitive dissonance as well as confirmation bias.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 26, 2020, 08:00:30 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on July 26, 2020, 07:48:37 PM

Why is Guru so fixated solely on death count being low? It's been proven that a massive percentage of people get this and end up with strokes in there 30s, lasting lung damage, and more.

And we have no idea what long term damage will be. Can you imagine a shingles like impact decades from now?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on July 26, 2020, 08:08:57 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on July 26, 2020, 07:48:37 PM

Why is Guru so fixated solely on death count being low? It's been proven that a massive percentage of people get this and end up with strokes in there 30s, lasting lung damage, and more.

So you don't care if people die?? Has this been proven?? I have heard it talked about, but I have never seen any scientific facts/data that support it. Is it out there?? It's a serious question, because I honestly have never seen one piece of data that shows that. You'd think with everything going on with covid, someone would have shown those #'s many times.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 26, 2020, 08:19:44 PM

Quote from: muguru on July 26, 2020, 08:08:57 PM

So you don't care if people die?? Has this been proven?? I have heard it talked about, but I have never seen any scientific facts/data that support it. Is it out there?? It's a serious question, because I honestly have never seen one piece of data that shows that. You'd think with everything going on with covid, someone would have shown those #'s many times.

Still waiting for you to answer:

"So the question now is, guru, since you now know The Blaze lied to you by taking a quote out of context, does it change your mind? Because earlier you were complaining about people not accepting facts that didn't match what they wanted to believe..."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 26, 2020, 08:27:34 PM

Quote from: muguru on July 26, 2020, 08:08:57 PM

So you don't care if people die?? Has this been proven?? I have heard it talked about, but I have never seen any scientific facts/data that support it. Is it out there?? It's a serious question, because I honestly have never seen one piece of data that shows that. You'd think with everything going on with covid, someone would have shown those #'s many times.

There is a lot in there but yes there are facts that show people die from Covid. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on July 26, 2020, 08:58:10 PM

Wow, this has been totally fun catching guru up on the past 5 months of this thread, to have him ignore everything and go back to "in February Fauci said" and "CHINA BAN!". 

Guru, you YELL AT OTHERS for not being able to pay attention to or learn from new facts, but you're doing the exact same thing when you get respectful answers.  In fact, many of your questions have been answered, but then you just lob another totally meaningless talking point/question out to argue that instead of ingesting the new information.  I might suggest this particular Covid-19 forum is just not for you.  If you choose to stay, "hang up and listen" for a while - you might just learn something.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 26, 2020, 09:01:12 PM

Quote from: muguru on July 26, 2020, 08:08:57 PM

So you don't care if people die?? Has this been proven?? I have heard it talked about, but I have never seen any scientific facts/data that support it. Is it out there?? It's a serious question, because I honestly have never seen one piece of data that shows that. You'd think with everything going on with covid, someone would have shown those #'s many times.

Yes. Scientists at Scripps Research Institute have shown that, even among asymptomatic patients, 54 to 76% had significant subclinical lung damage, as shown on CT scans.

https://www.kpbs.org/news/2020/jun/14/scripps-asymptomatic-coronavirus-patients-organ/

That's asymptomatic patients - people with the lowest viral loads and mildest disease. People who experienced symptoms likely have even more damage. And before you get excited about it being "subclinical," that just means young people get a loss of lung capacity that they don't notice when they're still young and healthy. But if they try to go for a run or bike ride, they may notice. And as they age and their pulmonary reserve wanes, this loss could be significant.

It's obviously years too early to know how severe this will be down the road, but it's silly to ignore it as 'just a theory'.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on July 26, 2020, 09:06:17 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on July 26, 2020, 06:42:45 PM

Yep.
Death is the worst of the bad outcomes of COVID, but not the only bad outcome. There are long-term health consequences. There's the upheaval of being hospitalized for perhaps weeks, away from your family. There economic consequences of being sick and quarantined, both in terms of not being able to work and potentially paying for treatment. There's the fear of spreading it to your loved ones. There are psychological/emotional consequences of dealing with a potentially fatal disease.

How do we really know the long term health effects of covid?  It has been around what 7 months?
Mono will take a strong HS/college athlete and put them out for months before they start to feel better.  Pneumonia will do the same and have lasting effects on your lungs.
I take precautions to not get sick with anything.  Saying covid has lasting effects just increases the fear and makes a bad situation worse.  Take precautions but no need to increase fear

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 26, 2020, 09:16:47 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on July 26, 2020, 09:06:17 PM

How do we really know the long term health effects of covid?  It has been around what 7 months?
Mono will take a strong HS/college athlete and put them out for months before they start to feel better.  Pneumonia will do the same and have lasting effects on your lungs.
I take precautions to not get sick with anything.  Saying covid has lasting effects just increases the fear and makes a bad situation worse.  Take precautions but no need to increase fear

See the post just above yours - CT documented evidence of lung scarring even in asymptomatic patients. We don't know how bad it will be long term, but we know many people have lung scarring, which is well known to diminish breathing capacity.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 26, 2020, 09:25:18 PM

Just for a little more documentation of the lung scarring, here is an NPR article about a peer-reviewed study that was published in Nature Medicine last month.

We Still Don't Fully Understand The Label 'Asymptomatic'

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/06/23/864536258/we-still-dont-fully-understand-the-label-asymptomatic

The Nature Medicine paper analyzes 37 asymptomatic cases, found through the contact tracing and testing efforts of the Wanzhou District Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in central China, which screened 2,088 close contacts of coronavirus patients from February through early April.

The asymptomatic patients were hospitalized for observation. Fifty-seven percent showed lung abnormalities on a CT scan, a sensitive imaging technique that produces a three-dimensional picture of the lungs. Some showed "striped shadows," while others presented with "ground-glass opacities" — clear signs of inflammation in the lungs.

Do we know the full extent of the long-term consequences? Of course not; we won't know the full extent for years. But there is plenty of reason to be VERY concerned right now about even 'surviving' COVID.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on July 26, 2020, 09:50:14 PM

"How COVID-19 can damage the Brain"

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200622-the-long-term-effects-of-covid-19-infection

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on July 26, 2020, 10:01:02 PM

Rocky sez: noting to do with covid

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on July 26, 2020, 11:24:32 PM

Quote from: muguru on July 26, 2020, 08:08:57 PM

So you don't care if people die?? Has this been proven?? I have heard it talked about, but I have never seen any scientific facts/data that support it. Is it out there?? It's a serious question, because I honestly have never seen one piece of data that shows that. You'd think with everything going on with covid, someone would have shown those #'s many times.

I do care if people died. I'm also not naive enough to think that's the only negative outcome of this virus. And yes there's plenty of data. I believe a few posters have posted various findings on this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on July 27, 2020, 01:18:19 AM

Quote from: muguru on July 26, 2020, 05:33:08 PM

Not to rail on you gooo but this is another perfect example of what I was talking about...people ONLY talk about cases when they want to make a point, and ignore death count/% only when it's convenient will they bring that up. They have had 103 total deaths, again a .01% death rate. That's pretty standard % in most states. That seems successful to me. Wanna know what NO ONE talks about?? The overall recovery %...which sits about 97-98% nationally. I mean you aren't going to get a 100% regardless of pandemic.

You do realize you have to multiply by 100 to get a percent, yes? You've forgotten to do that on nearly every percentage you were citing (e.g. Florida, Miami-Dade, and here with ND). The case fatality rate in ND is 1.7% right now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on July 27, 2020, 07:23:03 AM

Quote from: forgetful on July 27, 2020, 01:18:19 AM

You do realize you have to multiply by 100 to get a percent, yes? You've forgotten to do that on nearly every percentage you were citing (e.g. Florida, Miami-Dade, and here with ND). The case fatality rate in ND is 1.7% right now.

It's simple math..#deaths/total cases. That's how you get the ACCURATE %. You can use multiplying by 100 to distort the Numbers. Otherwise, how in the hell/why would you multiply by 100?? That has nothing to do with it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 27, 2020, 07:33:28 AM

Quote from: muguru on July 27, 2020, 07:23:03 AM

It's simple math..#deaths/total cases. That's how you get the ACCURATE %. You can use multiplying by 100 to distort the Numbers. Otherwise, how in the hell/why would you multiply by 100?? That has nothing to do with it.

The minute you add % after the statement, you need to multiple by 100 (mathematically).

So you can say the case fatality ratio is x (# deaths/total cases)

But the minute you say percent, your calculation above in inaccurate

Such as 1/100 = .01 or 1%

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 27, 2020, 08:15:06 AM

In the positive news front.  It appears many of the actions in the epidemic states a few weeks ago have resulted in plateau or decline of cases.  Hospitalizations in those areas seem to be tracking generally with that as well. 

Hopefully we stay the course on these interventions (and get a little more aggressive in the new areas starting to rise).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 27, 2020, 08:29:54 AM

We should totally reopen schools and have sports. What could go wrong?

Sources: Marlins cancel game as virus spreads
The Miami Marlins' home opener against the Baltimore Orioles Monday night has been canceled, sources told ESPN's Jeff Passan, as coronavirus cases continue to pop up among the team.

The Marlins remain in Philadelphia and continue to undergo testing after their weekend series there.

Eight more players and two coaches with the Marlins have tested positive for coronavirus, as an outbreak has spread throughout their clubhouse and brought the total of cases in recent days to at least 14, sources familiar with the situation told ESPN.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29546814/sources-marlins-cancel-game-virus-spreads

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 27, 2020, 08:36:12 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on July 27, 2020, 08:29:54 AM

We should totally reopen schools and have sports. What could go wrong?

Sources: Marlins cancel game as virus spreads
The Miami Marlins' home opener against the Baltimore Orioles Monday night has been canceled, sources told ESPN's Jeff Passan, as coronavirus cases continue to pop up among the team.

The Marlins remain in Philadelphia and continue to undergo testing after their weekend series there.

Eight more players and two coaches with the Marlins have tested positive for coronavirus, as an outbreak has spread throughout their clubhouse and brought the total of cases in recent days to at least 14, sources familiar with the situation told ESPN.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29546814/sources-marlins-cancel-game-virus-spreads

And now it begins. If MLB really wants to take this seriously, they will isolate and test everyone from the Marlins and the Phillies - and other teams the Marlins may have played - for a couple of weeks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 27, 2020, 08:45:05 AM

Trump national security advisor Robert O’Brien tests positive for coronavirus

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/27/coronavirus-trump-national-security-advisor-robert-obrien-tests-positive.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 27, 2020, 08:45:33 AM

I love that they canceled one game. Like who is going to want to play them tomorrow?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on July 27, 2020, 08:49:49 AM

Dang.  Predictable, but I really enjoyed the first few days of baseball.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on July 27, 2020, 08:51:20 AM

As I understand it, each team has 30 players on their roster this year, plus a 30 man taxi squad that they can dip into as needed.    I am guessing that they are trying to figure out how best to move forward.     What would it do to the integrity of the game to quarantine all 30 of the active roster and replace them with the taxi squad for two weeks?

These are the times we live in.    If MLB is going to have this challenge after the first weekend of play, what will the schools look like two weeks in?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 27, 2020, 08:51:21 AM

Quote from: muguru on July 27, 2020, 07:23:03 AM

It's simple math..#deaths/total cases. That's how you get the ACCURATE %. You can use multiplying by 100 to distort the Numbers. Otherwise, how in the hell/why would you multiply by 100?? That has nothing to do with it.

LOL, what?  If the figures you are talking about are 1 dealth out of 100 cases, that is .01.  To get a percentage you multiply by 100.  Or 1%.

Elementary school math.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on July 27, 2020, 09:06:00 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on July 27, 2020, 08:36:12 AM

And now it begins. If MLB really wants to take this seriously, they will isolate and test everyone from the Marlins and the Phillies - and other teams the Marlins may have played - for a couple of weeks.

Serious question ... is there really much chance of transmission by sharing an outdoor baseball field with someone who has COVID? If I'm the Phillies' centerfielder, I don't see much reason to be concerned if a Marlins pitcher or third baseman tested positive. There's almost no chance I was in that person's proximity for more than a few minutes, it that, and any interaction would have been brief and outside.
Obviously the Marlins needs to do extra testing (players currently are tested every other day) and quarantine those positive/exposed, but quarantining another team for two weeks because they were in the same ballpark seems excessive.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 27, 2020, 09:10:20 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on July 27, 2020, 09:06:00 AM

Serious question ... is there really much chance of transmission by sharing an outdoor baseball field with someone who has COVID? If I'm the Phillies' centerfielder, I don't see much reason to be concerned if a Marlins pitcher or third baseman tested positive. There's almost no chance I was in that person's proximity for more than a few minutes, it that, and any interaction would have been brief and outside.
Obviously the Marlins needs to do extra testing (players currently are tested every other day) and quarantine those positive/exposed, but quarantining another team for two weeks because they were in the same ballpark seems excessive.

Certainly less risky than indoor sports. Still, it isn't just the third baseman - it's at least 14 Marlins players so far. And over the course of a three-game series against a team with so many known positive cases, it is quite possible that the centerfielder had enough contact with enough players to contract the virus.

And remember - we aren't just worried about the Phillies' centerfielder. If anyone from the Phillies got it, he could unwittingly spread it to teammates before he even knew he was a risk.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 27, 2020, 09:23:46 AM

Catcher is going to need two masks, one an n95 mask.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on July 27, 2020, 09:26:33 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on July 27, 2020, 09:10:20 AM

Certainly less risky than indoor sports. Still, it isn't just the third baseman - it's at least 14 Marlins players so far. And over the course of a three-game series against a team with so many known positive cases, it is quite possible that the centerfielder had enough contact with enough players to contract the virus.

And remember - we aren't just worried about the Phillies' centerfielder. If anyone from the Phillies got it, he could unwittingly spread it to teammates before he even knew he was a risk.

Of course, but it seems shutting down the Phillies would be an extreme measure not being taken in any other business/industry, where the risk of infection would be far greater.
If, for example, some workers at my local Home Depot test positive, they're not quarantining the entire workforce for two weeks, much less everyone who shopped there.
The standard for quarantining someone who's been potentially exposed has always been close contact, defined by the CDC as "someone who was within 6 feet of an infected person for at least 15 minutes." When is an opposing player ever in "close contact" on a baseball field?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 27, 2020, 10:15:00 AM

The Athletic is reporting that Yankees-Phillies also canceled, and "emergency meeting" for all MLB clubs is set for today.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 27, 2020, 10:52:43 AM

Quote from: MU82 on July 27, 2020, 10:15:00 AM

The Athletic is reporting that Yankees-Phillies also canceled, and "emergency meeting" for all MLB clubs is set for today.

I feel like 2020 has become that old corporate poster about the definition of insanity. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on July 27, 2020, 10:54:08 AM

Anyone notice that Herman Cain is still in the hospital? His twitter feed (posted by others) had updates on his condition for a little while, but crickets for the last week. No media coverage at all.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on July 27, 2020, 11:03:50 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on July 27, 2020, 09:26:33 AM

Of course, but it seems shutting down the Phillies would be an extreme measure not being taken in any other business/industry, where the risk of infection would be far greater.
If, for example, some workers at my local Home Depot test positive, they're not quarantining the entire workforce for two weeks, much less everyone who shopped there.
The standard for quarantining someone who's been potentially exposed has always been close contact, defined by the CDC as "someone who was within 6 feet of an infected person for at least 15 minutes." When is an opposing player ever in "close contact" on a baseball field?

This seems like a prime situation for pausing a team while you do robust testing on anyone who may have been in contact and then proceeding instead of shutting everything down post-haste. But everything has seemingly been all or nothing lately

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on July 27, 2020, 11:10:37 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on July 27, 2020, 08:29:54 AM

We should totally reopen schools and have sports. What could go wrong?

Sources: Marlins cancel game as virus spreads
The Miami Marlins' home opener against the Baltimore Orioles Monday night has been canceled, sources told ESPN's Jeff Passan, as coronavirus cases continue to pop up among the team.

The Marlins remain in Philadelphia and continue to undergo testing after their weekend series there.

Eight more players and two coaches with the Marlins have tested positive for coronavirus, as an outbreak has spread throughout their clubhouse and brought the total of cases in recent days to at least 14, sources familiar with the situation told ESPN.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29546814/sources-marlins-cancel-game-virus-spreads

So how did this start?  Why are they using a clubhouse to change and interact?  Just dress and shower at home/hotel.  Time to call out players if they are going out to clubs or bars

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 27, 2020, 11:11:40 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on July 27, 2020, 11:03:50 AM

This seems like a prime situation for pausing a team while you do robust testing on anyone who may have been in contact and then proceeding instead of shutting everything down post-haste. But everything has seemingly been all or nothing lately

You know what it says to me?  They didn’t prepare for this possibility. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 27, 2020, 11:21:22 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 27, 2020, 11:11:40 AM

You know what it says to me?  They didn’t prepare for this possibility.

You are describing every reopening plan in the US.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on July 27, 2020, 11:23:42 AM

Premier League in UK and other European soccer leagues play all kinds of games in all kinds of cities and did not have that many problems.  And soccer players are consistently shoving one another and close to one another.

Understand we have it worse than Europe but UK hasn't done that great with Covid.  Amazing that baseball season is already in trouble.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 27, 2020, 11:26:31 AM

Quote from: tower912 on July 27, 2020, 08:51:20 AM

As I understand it, each team has 30 players on their roster this year, plus a 30 man taxi squad that they can dip into as needed.    I am guessing that they are trying to figure out how best to move forward.     What would it do to the integrity of the game to quarantine all 30 of the active roster and replace them with the taxi squad for two weeks?

These are the times we live in.    If MLB is going to have this challenge after the first weekend of play, what will the schools look like two weeks in?

The only solution is to quarantine all 30 and bring in 30 minor leaguers. And, yes, that completely undermines the integrity of MLB as a whole. There would be a team/teams that get in the playoffs solely because they got to play against minor leaguers while other teams didn't have that option.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 27, 2020, 11:29:03 AM

Quote from: MU82 on July 27, 2020, 10:15:00 AM

The Athletic is reporting that Yankees-Phillies also canceled, and "emergency meeting" for all MLB clubs is set for today.

It's hard to get a handle on this when there is not proper testing. Unless a team is getting results in 1 or 2 days, the tests are basically meaningless.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on July 27, 2020, 11:30:44 AM

Quote from: Jockey on July 27, 2020, 11:29:03 AM

It's hard to get a handle on this when there is not proper testing. Unless a team is getting results in 1 or 2 days, the tests are basically meaningless.

I saw the tests that the Marlins took this morning would return in 12-24 hours.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 27, 2020, 11:32:11 AM

Quote from: muguru on July 27, 2020, 07:23:03 AM

It's simple math..#deaths/total cases. That's how you get the ACCURATE %. You can use multiplying by 100 to distort the Numbers. Otherwise, how in the hell/why would you multiply by 100?? That has nothing to do with it.

Do you have any concept of decimals and percentages? This is stuff you should have known by 5th or 6th grade.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 27, 2020, 11:32:24 AM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on July 27, 2020, 11:23:42 AM

Premier League in UK and other European soccer leagues play all kinds of games in all kinds of cities and did not have that many problems.  And soccer players are consistently shoving one another and close to one another.

Understand we have it worse than Europe but UK hasn't done that great with Covid.  Amazing that baseball season is already in trouble.

Western Europe as a whole has done much better than we have.  England's seven day positive average has been droppng since mid May.  Last week, they had just over 4,000 people test positive.  We had over 150,000. 

Adjusted for the number of people in the respective countries, the US had over five times as many new positive tests last week.  And the trends are in the wrong directions.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 27, 2020, 11:33:16 AM

Quote from: cheebs09 on July 27, 2020, 11:30:44 AM

I saw the tests that the Marlins took this morning would return in 12-24 hours.

That's a good start. I know there were backlogs a week or two ago.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on July 27, 2020, 11:34:55 AM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on July 27, 2020, 11:23:42 AM

Premier League in UK and other European soccer leagues play all kinds of games in all kinds of cities and did not have that many problems.  And soccer players are consistently shoving one another and close to one another.

Understand we have it worse than Europe but UK hasn't done that great with Covid.  Amazing that baseball season is already in trouble.

Same for Italy and Spain, which weren't exactly spared from the pandemic. And as you note, there's a lot more "close contact" in soccer than baseball.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 27, 2020, 11:49:45 AM

Quote from: Jockey on July 27, 2020, 11:26:31 AM

The only solution is to quarantine all 30 and bring in 30 minor leaguers. And, yes, that completely undermines the integrity of MLB as a whole. There would be a team/teams that get in the playoffs solely because they got to play against minor leaguers while other teams didn't have that option.

Aren't The Marlins basically a minor league team anyway?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on July 27, 2020, 11:52:02 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 27, 2020, 11:49:45 AM

Aren't The Marlins basically a minor league team anyway?

Why the teal?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on July 27, 2020, 11:52:16 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 27, 2020, 11:32:24 AM

Western Europe as a whole has done much better than we have.  England's seven day positive average has been droppng since mid May.  Last week, they had just over 4,000 people test positive.  We had over 150,000. 

Adjusted for the number of people in the respective countries, the US had over five times as many new positive tests last week.  And the trends are in the wrong directions.

Yeah.  It is really where we are now,  not the past.  Europe (incl the UK) is just in a better spot right now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 27, 2020, 11:57:39 AM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on July 27, 2020, 11:52:16 AM

Yeah.  It is really where we are now,  not the past.  Europe (incl the UK) is just in a better spot right now.

This is what’s so frustrating. We were doing the right things. And then we weren’t. And largely still aren’t.

I mean we have posters who are still downplaying this and not understanding that we have to fix this before we get back to normal.

Basically our national policy is hope and pray for a vaccine.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on July 27, 2020, 12:31:04 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 27, 2020, 11:57:39 AM

This is what’s so frustrating. We were doing the right things. And then we weren’t. And largely still aren’t.

I mean we have posters who are still downplaying this and not understanding that we have to fix this before we get back to normal.

Basically our national policy is hope and pray for a vaccine.

yep we went from 0-60 way to fast instead of opening up in phases.  If we had gone slowly and been patient we would be in a much better spot

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 27, 2020, 12:52:40 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on July 27, 2020, 09:26:33 AM

Of course, but it seems shutting down the Phillies would be an extreme measure not being taken in any other business/industry, where the risk of infection would be far greater.
If, for example, some workers at my local Home Depot test positive, they're not quarantining the entire workforce for two weeks, much less everyone who shopped there.
The standard for quarantining someone who's been potentially exposed has always been close contact, defined by the CDC as "someone who was within 6 feet of an infected person for at least 15 minutes." When is an opposing player ever in "close contact" on a baseball field?

The Home Depot employees don't travel from city to city together to staff stores together all over the country. And FWIW, we have seen stores shut down entirely because employees tested positive. Just a small sampling:

https://www.pennlive.com/coronavirus/2020/05/coronavirus-cluster-wal-mart-store-closes-after-81-employees-test-positive-for-covid-19.html

https://komonews.com/news/coronavirus/starbucks-closes-store-near-seattle-art-musuem-due-to-positive-coronavirus-test

https://www.kpq.com/over-20-walmart-employees-test-positive/

https://www.abqjournal.com/1474906/las-cruces-walmart-closed-after-4-employees-got-covid.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on July 27, 2020, 01:02:42 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on July 27, 2020, 12:31:04 PM

yep we went from 0-60 way to fast instead of opening up in phases.  If we had gone slowly and been patient we would be in a much better spot

If all states had actually shut down for 4-8 weeks, we would have through this thing by June. The economic impact of continuing to ignore the problem is growing quickly.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 27, 2020, 01:17:09 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 27, 2020, 11:49:45 AM

Aren't The Marlins basically a minor league team anyway?

Quote from: Pakuni on July 27, 2020, 11:52:02 AM

Why the teal?

I'm a Marlins fan and this was my first thought.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on July 27, 2020, 01:24:14 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on July 27, 2020, 12:52:40 PM

The Home Depot employees don't travel from city to city together to staff stores together all over the country.

I'm not sure what the relevance is here. Are Phillies traveling to Atlanta next week to be the Braves? Are you more likely to expose someone when traveling versus staying within your own city? Are you more susceptible to an out-of-towner with the virus than someone from your hometown?
Please explain.

Quote

https://www.pennlive.com/coronavirus/2020/05/coronavirus-cluster-wal-mart-store-closes-after-81-employees-test-positive-for-covid-19.html

https://komonews.com/news/coronavirus/starbucks-closes-store-near-seattle-art-musuem-due-to-positive-coronavirus-test

https://www.kpq.com/over-20-walmart-employees-test-positive/

https://www.abqjournal.com/1474906/las-cruces-walmart-closed-after-4-employees-got-covid.html

These aren't the greatest of analogies, and certainly aren't comparable to my Home Depot hypothetical or what you're suggesting should happen with the Phillies. Here's why:

1. The Worcester Wamart was closed for less than a week. No evidence I can find that everyone who was in the building was quarantined for two weeks.
2. The Seattle Starbucks was closed for three days for cleaning. Other than the employee who tested positive, the staff was not quarantined for two weeks. Neither were the patrons.
3. The Wenatchee Walmart was closed for less than two days and employees who didn't test positive weren't quarantined, and neither were the customers.
4. The Las Cruces Wal-Mart closed for less than a day. It's employees who didn't test positive were not quarantined for two weeks, nor were its customers.

Lastly, all of this was happening indoors, which we know by now is an important distinction when it comes to spreading the virus.
Note: I completely agree with the decision to postpone the Marlins and Phillies games, the latter seemingly just to make sure the clubhouse is thoroughly cleaned, etc., for the next team coming in. Those are completely reasonable precautions. Sitting the Phillies out for two weeks - regardless of how they test - because they shared an outdoor baseball stadium with some infected players on the other team seems, to me, an unnecessary move.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 27, 2020, 01:45:38 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on July 27, 2020, 01:24:14 PM

I'm not sure what the relevance is here. Are Phillies traveling to Atlanta next week to be the Braves? Are you more likely to expose someone when traveling versus staying within your own city? Are you more susceptible to an out-of-towner with the virus than someone from your hometown?
Please explain.

These aren't the greatest of analogies, and certainly aren't comparable to my Home Depot hypothetical or what you're suggesting should happen with the Phillies. Here's why:

1. The Worcester Wamart was closed for less than a week. No evidence I can find that everyone who was in the building was quarantined for two weeks.
2. The Seattle Starbucks was closed for three days for cleaning. Other than the employee who tested positive, the staff was not quarantined for two weeks. Neither were the patrons.
3. The Wenatchee Walmart was closed for less than two days and employees who didn't test positive weren't quarantined, and neither were the customers.
4. The Las Cruces Wal-Mart closed for less than a day. It's employees who didn't test positive were not quarantined for two weeks, nor were its customers.

Lastly, all of this was happening indoors, which we know by now is an important distinction when it comes to spreading the virus.

Major League Baseball is (pardon the pun) a whole different ballgame. You raised the Home Depot analogy - I didn't think it was a good one, but I played along and gave examples. Yes, the closures were shorter, but that's because local stores like that aren't as high stakes (and big money) as teams traveling city to city to play different groups of players...and encountering innumerable airport, airline, hotel and other personnel along the way.

Like it or not, MLB has the resources to respond better than your local Home Depot, players have the ability to demand that the league better protect them, and the league does not want the bad press of spreading the virus any worse than it has already spread across the country.

Bottom line: there is no good analogy to what MLB is trying. Local stores are different in terms of what they do, the bargaining power their employees have, and the accelerated speed of the (additional) nationwide spread that could be caused by a potentially infected team traveling around the country. Even other major professional sports leagues in the country aren't good analogies, because all the current leagues are being played inside bubbles.

The fact that the Yankees@Phillies tonight was postponed and MLB is having an emergency meeting today seems to indicate that the league recognizes this too....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on July 27, 2020, 01:58:54 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on July 27, 2020, 01:45:38 PM

And encountering innumerable airport, airline, hotel and other personnel along the way.

MLB teams don't fly commercial, and how are they any different than any other business person checking into a hotel (other than they don't actually have to check in/check out or deal with any hotel staff )?

Quote

Like it or not, MLB has the resources to respond better than your local Home Depot, players have the ability to demand that the league better protect them, and the league does not want the bad press of spreading the virus any worse than it has already spread across the country.

OK ... back to the original point. Why is shutting down the Phillies for two weeks regardless of how they test a "better" response? No medical/public health guidelines I'm aware of would suggest such a drastic move given the level of exposure here. Why do you disagree with the experts?
If your position is that two weeks of quarantine is necessary for anyone who has even the slightest risk of maybe, perhaps having been exposed, then fine. I think that's extreme. By that measure, most of us probably would have been quarantined several times by now.

Quote

The fact that the Yankees@Phillies tonight was postponed and MLB is having an emergency meeting today seems to indicate that the league recognizes this too....

What does the fact the Phillies aren't in quarantine indicate?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 27, 2020, 02:16:52 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on July 27, 2020, 01:58:54 PM

MLB teams don't fly commercial, and how are they any different than any other business person checking into a hotel (other than they don't actually have to check in/check out or deal with any hotel staff )?

OK ... back to the original point. Why is shutting down the Phillies for two weeks regardless of how they test a "better" response? No medical/public health guidelines I'm aware of would suggest such a drastic move given the level of exposure here. Why do you disagree with the experts?
If your position is that two weeks of quarantine is necessary for anyone who has even the slightest risk of maybe, perhaps having been exposed, then fine. I think that's extreme. By that measure, most of us probably would have been quarantined several times by now.

What does the fact the Phillies aren't in quarantine indicate?

I'm not interested in picking this apart piece by piece except to say that sports are a luxury, and the majority of players have the luxury of playing this season...or not. That puts them in a very different position than Home Depot emplyees, or business travelers or just about any other example you can think of.

IMHO the leagues that are playing in bubbles are doing the right thing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on July 27, 2020, 02:26:44 PM

IMHO comparisons of typical places of employment just aren't that applicable to pro sports teams.  The manner in which teammates interact with each other, the amount of time they spend together, etc., makes stopping spread within teams damn near impossible. I would guess that home depot or sbux or any of the other comparisons we're using have largely called off big all-staff meetings.  Pro sports teams have at least 2  all-team meetings in the locker rooms each day, not to mention they are eating and showering together - the nature of a locker room is just much more conducive to spread than almost any other scenario. 

Each time you're close to another person is a rona lottery ticket, and pro athletes are holding more lottery tickets than just about any other profession, and they're going to have their numbers called more often.  Even if the comparisons are a matter of degree more than type, viral transmission is a matter of degree, too.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on July 27, 2020, 02:35:24 PM

https://journal.medizzy.com/first-case-of-a-baby-infected-with-covid-19-in-the-womb/

This seems bad

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 27, 2020, 02:55:35 PM

Reports are that the Marlins’ players made the decision to play, ignoring the league protocols.

If true, punishment is in order for team executives.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Lens on July 27, 2020, 03:11:17 PM

Quote from: Jockey on July 27, 2020, 02:55:35 PM

Reports are that the Marlins’ players made the decision to play, ignoring the league protocols.

If true, punishment is in order for team executives.

If I'm reading correctly, there are no league protocols.  MLB has no guidelines about when to shut down.  This is exactly why each team is a carrying a 30 man taxi squad. The players voted to not cancel the game. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 27, 2020, 03:13:02 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on July 27, 2020, 08:45:05 AM

Trump national security advisor Robert O’Brien tests positive for coronavirus

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/27/coronavirus-trump-national-security-advisor-robert-obrien-tests-positive.html

Wanna know the most frightening thing about this? 

In every other administration, the Nat’l Security advisor spends more time with the president than any other person in the WH. Trump said today that he wasn’t worried that he caught it because he hadn’t talked to O’Brien for days.

That is both stunning and scary. But then this a a guy who openly said he gets his intelligence from Putin.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 27, 2020, 03:16:42 PM

Quote from: The Lens on July 27, 2020, 03:11:17 PM

If I'm reading correctly, there are no league protocols.  MLB has no guidelines about when to shut down.  This is exactly why each team is a carrying a 30 man taxi squad. The players voted to not cancel the game.

Are you saying that MLB has zero plans to deal with an outbreak? That they are leaving decisions up to players?

I think not.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on July 27, 2020, 03:17:39 PM

More than 75% of recovered COVID-19 patients report new heart problems:

https://twitter.com/JAMACardio/status/1287781465015672836?s=19


https://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/health-med-fit/health/new-heart-problems-seen-in-recovered-covid-19-patients/article_30ed9771-6c6d-59bf-a59e-a6b0093b4b82.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 27, 2020, 03:21:50 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on July 27, 2020, 03:17:39 PM

More than 75% of recovered COVID-19 patients report new heart problems:

https://twitter.com/JAMACardio/status/1287781465015672836?s=19


https://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/health-med-fit/health/new-heart-problems-seen-in-recovered-covid-19-patients/article_30ed9771-6c6d-59bf-a59e-a6b0093b4b82.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true

The news keeps getting worse.

Buckle up, fellas.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 27, 2020, 03:33:45 PM

Quote from: The Lens on July 27, 2020, 03:11:17 PM

If I'm reading correctly, there are no league protocols.  MLB has no guidelines about when to shut down.  This is exactly why each team is a carrying a 30 man taxi squad. The players voted to not cancel the game. 

But did positive tested players play?  The f so that’s a problem.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on July 27, 2020, 03:49:15 PM

Quote from: The Lens on July 27, 2020, 03:11:17 PM

If I'm reading correctly, there are no league protocols.  MLB has no guidelines about when to shut down.  This is exactly why each team is a carrying a 30 man taxi squad. The players voted to not cancel the game.

The return to play agreement gives Manfred the authority to suspend or cancel games. The question here is whether he was informed of the Marlins' circumstances.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Lens on July 27, 2020, 03:50:21 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 27, 2020, 03:33:45 PM

But did positive tested players play?  The f so that’s a problem.

No, the ones who had received positive tests before the game didn't play.  The remaining players, armed with the knowledge that in 72 hours 4 teammates had tested positive, voted to keep playing.  There is no MLB protocol that decides when a team is too infected to play. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 27, 2020, 03:54:44 PM

Quote from: The Lens on July 27, 2020, 03:50:21 PM

No the ones who had received positive tests before the game didn't play.  The remaining players, armed with the knowledge that in 72 hours 4 teammates had tested positive, voted to keep playing.  There is no MLB protocol that decides when a team is too infected to play. 

Ah ok. Thanks. That makes a lot more sense.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 27, 2020, 04:07:40 PM

Quote from: The Lens on July 27, 2020, 03:50:21 PM

No, the ones who had received positive tests before the game didn't play.  The remaining players, armed with the knowledge that in 72 hours 4 teammates had tested positive, voted to keep playing.  There is no MLB protocol that decides when a team is too infected to play.

So back to my original comment...they didn't prepare for this possibility (probability?).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 27, 2020, 04:11:36 PM

Quote from: MUBurrow on July 27, 2020, 02:26:44 PM

IMHO comparisons of typical places of employment just aren't that applicable to pro sports teams.  The manner in which teammates interact with each other, the amount of time they spend together, etc., makes stopping spread within teams damn near impossible. I would guess that home depot or sbux or any of the other comparisons we're using have largely called off big all-staff meetings.  Pro sports teams have at least 2  all-team meetings in the locker rooms each day, not to mention they are eating and showering together - the nature of a locker room is just much more conducive to spread than almost any other scenario. 

Each time you're close to another person is a rona lottery ticket, and pro athletes are holding more lottery tickets than just about any other profession, and they're going to have their numbers called more often.  Even if the comparisons are a matter of degree more than type, viral transmission is a matter of degree, too.

Agreed. Pro sports is clearly a business, but it’s dramatically different from businesses that sell food or home repair supplies.

After thinking about this some more...if people want a better comparison to the MLB scenario, look at what happens when an NBA player leaves the bubble and wants back in. Lou Williams had to quarantine for 10 days. So maybe both the Marlins and Phillies should quarantine for 10 days, and either postpone the games for later or use their replacement squads during the interim.

If the MLB just carries on as though nothing happened, imagine what might happen as soon as teams start playing games in Miami or LA or Houston.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 27, 2020, 04:16:45 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on July 27, 2020, 03:17:39 PM

More than 75% of recovered COVID-19 patients report new heart problems:

https://twitter.com/JAMACardio/status/1287781465015672836?s=19


https://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/health-med-fit/health/new-heart-problems-seen-in-recovered-covid-19-patients/article_30ed9771-6c6d-59bf-a59e-a6b0093b4b82.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true

First evidence on CT scans that a huge percentage of asymptomatic “recovered“ patients have clear evidence of lung scarring, and now this.

This is quickly turning into the Hiroshima, Nagasaki or Chernobyl of the new millennium. Lots of people die quickly, but even the “survivors” live with physical and emotional consequences for decades to come.

Just the flu, huh?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on July 27, 2020, 04:52:16 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on July 27, 2020, 03:17:39 PM

More than 75% of recovered COVID-19 patients report new heart problems:

https://twitter.com/JAMACardio/status/1287781465015672836?s=19


https://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/health-med-fit/health/new-heart-problems-seen-in-recovered-covid-19-patients/article_30ed9771-6c6d-59bf-a59e-a6b0093b4b82.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true

But again, nobody under the age of 45, nearly all of the participants were over “normal” BMI of 24ish, and there was a good amount of smokers, nearly double the ratio of the population that is diabetic, and similar over representation of asthma.

Not downplaying the risks or effects, but taking that population and turning into “75% of COVID patients have heart problems” is irresponsible and dramatic.

And let’s pump the brakes on still developing results of a virus (which could get worse in some patients or may be remedied in some patients with time) being compared to profound radiation poisoning and genetic birth defects crippling populations for a generation or more. When 25 year olds that have recovered from COVID start giving birth to babies with club feet and polydactyly in large numbers, then maybe it’s a comparison to make. Much less the trauma of Chernobyl

I understand your concern, but that’s a huge leap from some people with potential lung scarring. Let’s keep some perspective

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on July 27, 2020, 04:54:56 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on July 27, 2020, 04:16:45 PM

First evidence on CT scans that a huge percentage of asymptomatic “recovered“ patients have clear evidence of lung scarring, and now this.

This is quickly turning into the Hiroshima, Nagasaki or Chernobyl of the new millennium. Lots of people die quickly, but even the “survivors” live with physical and emotional consequences for decades to come.

Just the flu, huh?

The news gets better every hour today.
Just to play the other side without an MRI would these have been found?  Could this condition have been in some prior or is there any link to those that now have the issue?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on July 27, 2020, 05:03:57 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on July 27, 2020, 04:16:45 PM

First evidence on CT scans that a huge percentage of asymptomatic “recovered“ patients have clear evidence of lung scarring, and now this.

This is quickly turning into the Hiroshima, Nagasaki or Chernobyl of the new millennium. Lots of people die quickly, but even the “survivors” live with physical and emotional consequences for decades to come.

Just the flu, huh?

For the uninitiated, how do they guard against preexisting conditions in this kind of a study? Obviously if there are documented instances, but I imagine most people of this age wouldn't know if they had any sort of heart issue unless they suffered some traumatic event that alerted them to it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 27, 2020, 05:18:43 PM

Quote from: The Lens on July 27, 2020, 03:50:21 PM

No, the ones who had received positive tests before the game didn't play.  The remaining players, armed with the knowledge that in 72 hours 4 teammates had tested positive, voted to keep playing.  There is no MLB protocol that decides when a team is too infected to play.

I’ll trust that you are correct, but doesn’t that highlight the problem?

So the protocol says it is OK for players who know they have been exposed to play. IMO, Manfred is far and away the worst commissioner in sports, but this is so far over the line that you have to wonder how bad it will get.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 27, 2020, 05:21:47 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on July 27, 2020, 05:03:57 PM

For the uninitiated, how do they guard against preexisting conditions in this kind of a study? Obviously if there are documented instances, but I imagine most people of this age wouldn't know if they had any sort of heart issue unless they suffered some traumatic event that alerted them to it.

You are correct that most people would not know if they had asymptomatic lung or heart damage. However, studies of this sort often use 'historical controls'; that is, researchers compare the study results to scans from otherwise healthy patients (presumably with no evidence of COVID) that have been 'matched' to the study population. So if the study population are all between age 20-40 and have a known incidence of smoking, obesity, etc, the researchers would look at scans from a similar 'historical' group.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 27, 2020, 05:24:50 PM

Quote from: forgetful on July 27, 2020, 10:54:08 AM

Anyone notice that Herman Cain is still in the hospital? His twitter feed (posted by others) had updates on his condition for a little while, but crickets for the last week. No media coverage at all.

Still in the hospital. Still on oxygen. Trying to repair lung damage.

Still against masks, I presume.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on July 27, 2020, 05:31:05 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on July 27, 2020, 04:52:16 PM

But again, nobody under the age of 45, nearly all of the participants were over “normal” BMI of 24ish, and there was a good amount of smokers, nearly double the ratio of the population that is diabetic, and similar over representation of asthma.

Not downplaying the risks or effects, but taking that population and turning into “75% of COVID patients have heart problems” is irresponsible and dramatic.

And let’s pump the brakes on still developing results of a virus (which could get worse in some patients or may be remedied in some patients with time) being compared to profound radiation poisoning and genetic birth defects crippling populations for a generation or more. When 25 year olds that have recovered from COVID start giving birth to babies with club feet and polydactyly in large numbers, then maybe it’s a comparison to make. Much less the trauma of Chernobyl

I understand your concern, but that’s a huge leap from some people with potential lung scarring. Let’s keep some perspective

I’m just the messenger. I merely presented the information flatly. It was also literally the first paragraph in the Reuters piece. And, JAMA Cardiology stated 60% had myocardial inflammation regardless of pre-existing conditions.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on July 27, 2020, 05:38:42 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on July 27, 2020, 05:31:05 PM

I’m just the messenger. I merely presented the information flatly. It was also  literally the first paragraph in the Reuters piece. And, JAMA Cardiology stated 60% had myocardial inflammation regardless of pre-existing conditions.

I wasn’t taking a shot at you personally. I just have a problem with a lot of the “percentage reporting” lately. Using rates and statistics in populations that are heavily skewed to a certain demographic and then blanket extrapolating it to the entire US population to get wildly inflated projections. I’m of the belief that reporting like that doesn’t produce an abundance of caution as much as it causes people, that weren’t already gravely concerned and overly cautious, to further disregard it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on July 27, 2020, 05:43:49 PM

Absolutely ZERO agenda from this foreign doctor either way, just speaking out and giving information

https://twitter.com/fleccas/status/1287846643417657344?s=20

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on July 27, 2020, 05:55:32 PM

Quote from: muguru on July 27, 2020, 05:43:49 PM

Absolutely ZERO agenda from this foreign doctor either way, just speaking out and giving information

https://twitter.com/fleccas/status/1287846643417657344?s=20

Any comment on how you don’t understand 7th grade math?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 27, 2020, 06:14:25 PM

Quote from: muguru on July 27, 2020, 05:43:49 PM

Absolutely ZERO agenda from this foreign doctor either way, just speaking out and giving information

https://twitter.com/fleccas/status/1287846643417657344?s=20

<sigh>

This is exactly why we aren't getting better.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on July 27, 2020, 06:39:27 PM

Quote from: muguru on July 27, 2020, 05:43:49 PM

Absolutely ZERO agenda from this foreign doctor either way, just speaking out and giving information

https://twitter.com/fleccas/status/1287846643417657344?s=20

How do you know she has zero agenda? Have you verified her stock holdings? Bank account transactions? Etc

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 27, 2020, 06:48:12 PM

Quote from: muguru on July 27, 2020, 05:43:49 PM

Absolutely ZERO agenda from this foreign doctor either way, just speaking out and giving information

https://twitter.com/fleccas/status/1287846643417657344?s=20

Dr. Stella is definitely the person to call if you have Family Line Witchcraft or need to Rid Yourself of your Spirit Husband.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 27, 2020, 06:55:26 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on July 27, 2020, 06:48:12 PM

Dr. Stella is definitely the person to call if you have Family Line Witchcraft or need to Rid Yourself of your Spirit Husband.

I am beginning to believe that guru is just stringing us along. No way can anyone post so many easily shot down things without it being intentional trolling.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on July 27, 2020, 07:00:12 PM

Of course...who wouldn't have guessed that all the same Radical left whack jobs that infiltrate these boards wouldn't immediately dismiss this as being bunk because they simply don't want to hear it. It's so freaking nauseating how none of you will EVEN consider an alternate opinion/theory simply because of your agendas against bad orange man, and that is ALL it is. It's like clockwork...if it's not what they want to believe(even though she's a doctor and we are just message board posters), bash, bash, bash and dismiss. Although Fluffy is the closest thing we have on these boards to Dr. Fauci...just ask him.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 27, 2020, 07:08:05 PM

Quote from: muguru on July 27, 2020, 07:00:12 PM

Of course...who wouldn't have guessed that all the same Radical left whack jobs that infiltrate these boards wouldn't immediately dismiss this as being bunk because they simply don't want to hear it. It's so freaking nauseating how none of you will EVEN consider an alternate opinion/theory simply because of your agendas against bad orange man, and that is ALL it is. It's like clockwork...if it's not what they want to believe(even though she's a doctor and we are just message board posters), bash, bash, bash and dismiss. Although Fluffy is the closest thing we have on these boards to Dr. Fauci...just ask him.

Is it possible that you are overlooking a more logical and obvious answer? Namely that your mind is clouded because you are being ridden by a Spirit Wife? Dr. Stella can help you with that! (And your COVID, too, of course).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=644&v=CJrJG9xymts&feature=emb_logo

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on July 27, 2020, 07:13:47 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on July 27, 2020, 07:08:05 PM

Is it possible that you are overlooking a more logical and obvious answer? Namely that your mind is clouded because you are being ridden by a Spirit Wife? Dr. Stella can help you with that! (And your COVID, too, of course).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=644&v=CJrJG9xymts&feature=emb_logo

So what you're saying is...it's not even REMOTELY possible, that she has in fact treated 350 patients with it and had a 100% success rate?? NOT even a smidge possible?? If no, you would know that how exactly Tony?? Did you witness her NEVER doing it?? Or, is it something else?? At least unlike a lot of you, I'm willing to listen and consider possibilities.

So if I post this from everyone's favorite news source CNN, does it get your attention?? https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/02/health/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-detroit-study/index.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on July 27, 2020, 07:15:42 PM

Quote from: muguru on July 27, 2020, 07:00:12 PM

Of course...who wouldn't have guessed that all the same Radical left whack jobs that infiltrate these boards wouldn't immediately dismiss this as being bunk because they simply don't want to hear it. It's so freaking nauseating how none of you will EVEN consider an alternate opinion/theory simply because of your agendas against bad orange man, and that is ALL it is. It's like clockwork...if it's not what they want to believe(even though she's a doctor and we are just message board posters), bash, bash, bash and dismiss. Although Fluffy is the closest thing we have on these boards to Dr. Fauci...just ask him.

"Bad orange man" has no association - that I know of - with flat earthers. But I don't agree with flat earthers because of what science has demonstrated on that argument. My stance has on this has nothing to do with any sort of political bias.

Similarly, my support/agreement with science extends to all areas. Including covid and associated HCQ treatment.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 27, 2020, 07:16:05 PM

Quote from: muguru on July 27, 2020, 07:13:47 PM

So what you're saying is...it's not even REMOTELY possible, that she has in fact treated 350 patients with it and had a 100% success rate?? NOT even a smidge possible?? If no, you would know that how exactly Tony?? Did you witness her NEVER doing it?? Or, is it something else?? At least unlike a lot of you, I'm willing to listen and consider possibilities.

So if I post this from everyone's favorite news source CNN, does it get your attention?? https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/02/health/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-detroit-study/index.html

I’m not worried about it.  It’s going to disappear one day

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 27, 2020, 07:16:31 PM

(https://media0.giphy.com/media/BmmfETghGOPrW/200.gif)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 27, 2020, 07:19:05 PM

Quote from: muguru on July 27, 2020, 07:13:47 PM

So what you're saying is...it's not even REMOTELY possible, that she has in fact treated 350 patients with it and had a 100% success rate?? NOT even a smidge possible?? If no, you would know that how exactly Tony?? Did you witness her NEVER doing it?? Or, is it something else?? At least unlike a lot of you, I'm willing to listen and consider possibilities.

So if I post this from everyone's favorite news source CNN, does it get your attention?? https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/02/health/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-detroit-study/index.html

No, you are right, you're right. We should DEFINITELY take seriously the woman that believes in witchcraft and succubi. LOL

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on July 27, 2020, 07:30:49 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on July 27, 2020, 07:19:05 PM

No, you are right, you're right. We should DEFINITELY take seriously the woman that believes in witchcraft and succubi. LOL

Interesting that you blatantly ignored the article from yours and other libs favorite news source CNN..how come??  ?-(

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on July 27, 2020, 07:32:56 PM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 27, 2020, 07:16:05 PM

I’m not worried about it.  It’s going to disappear one day

This is actually true. It will be gone one day...whether because of a vaccine or herd immunity or some other method, but it WILL be gone/disappear one day. Unless you think it will be around forever at the same level it is now??

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 27, 2020, 07:38:14 PM

Quote from: muguru on July 27, 2020, 07:32:56 PM

This is actually true. It will be gone one day...whether because of a vaccine or herd immunity or some other method, but it WILL be gone/disappear one day. Unless you think it will be around forever at the same level it is now??

I have full faith in the current administration to lead us to victory over Covid-19.  Their zeal in fighting this pandemic from day one dwarfs the results of the rest of the world.  Historians will one day look back in wonder at the job the United States, leaders of the free world, home of the brightest minds and ask how we could defeat this enemy while the rest of the world wallowed in record cases and deaths for months. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on July 27, 2020, 07:46:34 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on July 27, 2020, 07:19:05 PM

No, you are right, you're right. We should DEFINITELY take seriously the woman that believes in witchcraft and succubi. LOL

Gonna dismiss the virology journal article from 2005?? Probably fake, I guess...

https://stacks.cdc.gov/view/cdc/3620

Chloroquine is a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection and spread  Huh...who knew??  ::)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on July 27, 2020, 07:47:07 PM

Quote from: muguru on July 27, 2020, 07:32:56 PM

This is actually true. It will be gone one day...whether because of a vaccine or herd immunity or some other method, but it WILL be gone/disappear one day. Unless you think it will be around forever at the same level it is now??

Vaccines make illnesses disappear.

Signed,
Measles, Chickenpox and Influenza

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 27, 2020, 07:49:42 PM

Quote from: muguru on July 27, 2020, 07:46:34 PM

Gonna dismiss the virology journal article from 2005?? Probably fake, I guess...

https://stacks.cdc.gov/view/cdc/3620

Chloroquine is a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection and spread  Huh...who knew??  ::)

Too bad Biden is in charge of the CDC

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 27, 2020, 07:54:55 PM

Quote from: muguru on July 27, 2020, 07:30:49 PM

Interesting that you blatantly ignored the article from yours and other libs favorite news source CNN..how come??  ?-(

I’m not sure about the labels and name calling.  But personally I don’t trust any ONE source for anything. Usually multiple for and one against is enough to inform my opinion. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on July 27, 2020, 07:57:00 PM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 27, 2020, 07:49:42 PM

Too bad Biden is in charge of the CDC

 ;D Before or after someone blows into his nostrils to get him going??

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 27, 2020, 07:57:20 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on July 27, 2020, 07:47:07 PM

Vaccines make illnesses disappear.

Signed,
Measles, Chickenpox and Influenza

Co-signed,

Polio

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 27, 2020, 08:06:46 PM

Quote from: muguru on July 27, 2020, 07:30:49 PM

Interesting that you blatantly ignored the article from yours and other libs favorite news source CNN..how come??  ?-(

Search my post history, I shared my thoughts way back when that study came out.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 27, 2020, 08:11:08 PM

Quote from: muguru on July 27, 2020, 07:46:34 PM

Gonna dismiss the virology journal article from 2005?? Probably fake, I guess...

https://stacks.cdc.gov/view/cdc/3620

Chloroquine is a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection and spread  Huh...who knew??  ::)

Haven't you embarrassed yourself enough?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on July 27, 2020, 08:14:17 PM

Quote from: muguru on July 27, 2020, 07:46:34 PM

Gonna dismiss the virology journal article from 2005?? Probably fake, I guess...

https://stacks.cdc.gov/view/cdc/3620

Chloroquine is a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection and spread  Huh...who knew??  ::)

The paper you link is one of the reasons the drug was initially tried in China and elsewhere. That study looked at a couple different factors. It looked at the initial ability of SARS to infect primate cells (specifically Green Monkey Kidney cells). They found that dosages of chloroquine above 0.1 micromolar began to inhibit infectivity (abolished about 10 micromolar).

They then looked at whether chloroquine could reduce spread from previously infected primate cells. They found that at 1 micromolar concentrations, with half-maximal effects observed at 4.4 micromolar.

They then did some mechanistic work to attempt to identify a mode of action, observing two possible reasons (pH and ACE2 processing). The study is well done, which is why there have been followups in clinical settings. Now, the doesn't mean anything in terms of efficacy.

Even at that, the dosages there are quite high. I would usually want to see efficacy with at least 1000-fold lower concentrations, but since HCQ clears pretty slowly, the high-dose regimes tested in some areas would generate blood levels in the "therapeutic range" observed in cell culture.

All the above is exactly why this was tested. Sadly, the clinical trials showed HCQ has no therapeutic benefit. Also, sadly, this isn't unusual when going from initial phases of drug discovery to actual usage.

I've seen countless demonstrations of completely curing diabetes, Alzheimers, Parkinson's, cancer, etc., in even mouse models, that had no effect whatsoever in human. One recent diabetes treatment I had seen was remarkable, 1-week treatment completely cured diabetes, no need for further treatment and never returned. Nothing, nada, zip, in human models/trials. Going from a primate cell model to humans is an even longer and more challenging jump.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: muguru on July 27, 2020, 08:22:47 PM

Quote from: forgetful on July 27, 2020, 08:14:17 PM

The paper you link is one of the reasons the drug was initially tried in China and elsewhere. That study looked at a couple different factors. It looked at the initial ability of SARS to infect primate cells (specifically Green Monkey Kidney cells). They found that dosages of chloroquine above 0.1 micromolar began to inhibit infectivity (abolished about 10 micromolar).

They then looked at whether chloroquine could reduce spread from previously infected primate cells. They found that at 1 micromolar concentrations, with half-maximal effects observed at 4.4 micromolar.

They then did some mechanistic work to attempt to identify a mode of action, observing two possible reasons (pH and ACE2 processing). The study is well done, which is why there have been followups in clinical settings. Now, the doesn't mean anything in terms of efficacy.

Even at that, the dosages there are quite high. I would usually want to see efficacy with at least 1000-fold lower concentrations, but since HCQ clears pretty slowly, the high-dose regimes tested in some areas would generate blood levels in the "therapeutic range" observed in cell culture.

All the above is exactly why this was tested. Sadly, the clinical trials showed HCQ has no therapeutic benefit. Also, sadly, this isn't unusual when going from initial phases of drug discovery to actual usage.

I've seen countless demonstrations of completely curing diabetes, Alzheimers, Parkinson's, cancer, etc., in even mouse models, that had no effect whatsoever in human. One recent diabetes treatment I had seen was remarkable, 1-week treatment completely cured diabetes, no need for further treatment and never returned. Nothing, nada, zip, in human models/trials. Going from a primate cell model to humans is an even longer and more challenging jump.

I have seen reports from several doctors that have said the key to chloroquin working is to administer it early and combine it with zinc. That's the key apparently. It's WHEN you administer it more than anything.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 27, 2020, 08:28:51 PM

Quote from: muguru on July 27, 2020, 08:22:47 PM

I have seen reports from several doctors that have said the key to chloroquin working is to administer it early and combine it with zinc. That's the key apparently. It's WHEN you administer it more than anything.

Plenty for the taking—in fact the government has a bunch.  I would get in now guru.  You can make millions reselling this. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 27, 2020, 08:32:06 PM

Looks like guru is being manipulated.

https://twitter.com/myrmecos/status/1287916924052144129?s=21

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 27, 2020, 08:35:26 PM

Lol.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/27/us/politics/trump-yankees-fauci.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 27, 2020, 08:37:48 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 27, 2020, 08:35:26 PM

Lol.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/27/us/politics/trump-yankees-fauci.html

It’s a far leap to link this to covid. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 27, 2020, 09:04:59 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 27, 2020, 08:37:48 PM

It’s a far leap to link this to covid.

He said he’s too busy fighting the virus to throw out the first pitch. Totally related. I think he said it in between rounds of golf.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 27, 2020, 09:06:09 PM

After Private Party, At Least 17 UF Health Anesthesiologist Residents Contract Coronavirus

https://wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu/post/after-private-party-least-17-uf-health-anesthesiologist-residents-contract-coronavirus

The UF Health outbreak illustrates the difficulties of stemming the spread of the pandemic, when even trained health care professionals can be sickened from a private party in Florida – one of the nation’s hot spots for the virus – after explicit warnings about the risks from social gatherings.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on July 27, 2020, 09:12:17 PM

A San Francisco couple insisted on having 100 guests at their wedding, in violation of city restrictions.
You'll never believe what happened next.

https://www.newsweek.com/san-francisco-bride-groom-8-others-reportedly-test-positive-after-wedding-that-defied-covid-rules-1520809

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on July 27, 2020, 09:16:09 PM

Guru ... I ask again, if the efficacy of HCQ were being denied or suppressed for political reasons, why is it not being used with great success in other countries?
Surely you don't believe places like Russia, Brazil and Israel are denying their people this wonder drug just to stick it to Trump.
So what's the deal?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 27, 2020, 11:03:59 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on July 27, 2020, 09:06:09 PM

After Private Party, At Least 17 UF Health Anesthesiologist Residents Contract Coronavirus

https://wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu/post/after-private-party-least-17-uf-health-anesthesiologist-residents-contract-coronavirus

The UF Health outbreak illustrates the difficulties of stemming the spread of the pandemic, when even trained health care professionals can be sickened from a private party in Florida – one of the nation’s hot spots for the virus – after explicit warnings about the risks from social gatherings.

I love that UF tried to blame its non-responses on HIPAA, so the writer went  on to quote two HIPAA experts who explained that verifying the outbreak would not constitute a HIPAA violation. Bravo for thorough journalism.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on July 27, 2020, 11:34:28 PM

https://youtu.be/wsSwzVomWhU

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on July 27, 2020, 11:36:54 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 27, 2020, 08:32:06 PM

Looks like guru is being manipulated.

https://twitter.com/myrmecos/status/1287916924052144129?s=21

Unfortunately it had over 14 million views on Facebook before Facebook took it down for false information. Two most highly viewed things on Facebook were this and "You don't need to wear a mask."

https://twitter.com/andymstone/status/1287927756412653569?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 28, 2020, 12:05:34 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 27, 2020, 08:37:48 PM

It’s a far leap to link this to covid.

That’s why I thought twice and decided not to post it. Unusual for me, huh?

If I had, Sultan would have been the first to criticize me. I won’t do the same to him because it really is a funny (pathetic) story. Can anyone here even imagine being that sick, that jealous of someone else?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on July 28, 2020, 01:32:13 AM

Quote from: muguru on July 27, 2020, 07:00:12 PM

Of course...who wouldn't have guessed that all the same Radical left whack jobs that infiltrate these boards wouldn't immediately dismiss this as being bunk because they simply don't want to hear it. It's so freaking nauseating how none of you will EVEN consider an alternate opinion/theory simply because of your agendas against bad orange man, and that is ALL it is. It's like clockwork...if it's not what they want to believe(even though she's a doctor and we are just message board posters), bash, bash, bash and dismiss. Although Fluffy is the closest thing we have on these boards to Dr. Fauci...just ask him.

I'll ask you again - is anyone that dislikes Trump part of the "radical left"?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 28, 2020, 07:29:49 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on July 27, 2020, 11:34:28 PM

https://youtu.be/wsSwzVomWhU

Let's not go full conspiracy theory here.  It's been about three or four weeks since additional local and state restrictions have been placed in some of the hotspots.  Furthermore, I get the impression that people are modifying their behavior and not engaging in as risky behavior.  For instance, the state of Wisconsin's numbers have levelled off and those are reported directly from the state. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on July 28, 2020, 07:41:22 AM

Joseph Costa, Critical Care Doctor, Mercy Medical Center, Baltimore, Maryland, dies of COVID-19:

https://www.baltimoresun.com/coronavirus/bs-md-ob-cv-costa-icu-doctor-mercy-coronavirus-20200727-qbb4ebvnizdvtpkk4octd27tda-story.html?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on July 28, 2020, 07:56:20 AM

Regarding that video guru shared yesterday...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/28/tech/facebook-youtube-coronavirus/index.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on July 28, 2020, 08:01:26 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 28, 2020, 07:29:49 AM

Let's not go full conspiracy theory here.  It's been about three or four weeks since additional local and state restrictions have been placed in some of the hotspots.  Furthermore, I get the impression that people are modifying their behavior and not engaging in as risky behavior.  For instance, the state of Wisconsin's numbers have levelled off and those are reported directly from the state.

If I can't go full conspiracy theory, then what are we even doing here??

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on July 28, 2020, 08:04:54 AM

And regarding that "foreign doctor" in the video guru shared yesterday:

A Houston doctor who praises hydroxychloroquine and says that face masks aren’t necessary to stop transmission of the highly contagious coronavirus has become a star on the right-wing internet, garnering tens of millions of views on Facebook on Monday alone. Donald Trump Jr. declared the video of Stella Immanuel a “must watch,” while Donald Trump himself retweeted the video.

Before Trump and his supporters embrace Immanuel’s medical expertise, though, they should consider other medical claims Immanuel has made—including those about alien DNA and the physical effects of having sex with witches and demons in your dreams.

Immanuel, a pediatrician and a religious minister, has a history of making bizarre claims about medical topics and other issues. She has often claimed that gynecological problems like cysts and endometriosis are in fact caused by people having sex in their dreams with demons and witches.

She alleges alien DNA is currently used in medical treatments, and that scientists are cooking up a vaccine to prevent people from being religious. And, despite appearing in Washington, D.C. to lobby Congress on Monday, she has said that the government is run in part not by humans but by “reptilians” and other aliens.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/stella-immanuel-trumps-new-covid-doctor-believes-in-alien-dna-demon-sperm-and-hydroxychloroquine?ref=home

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on July 28, 2020, 08:09:49 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on July 28, 2020, 08:04:54 AM

And regarding that "foreign doctor" in the video guru shared yesterday:

A Houston doctor who praises hydroxychloroquine and says that face masks aren’t necessary to stop transmission of the highly contagious coronavirus has become a star on the right-wing internet, garnering tens of millions of views on Facebook on Monday alone. Donald Trump Jr. declared the video of Stella Immanuel a “must watch,” while Donald Trump himself retweeted the video.

Before Trump and his supporters embrace Immanuel’s medical expertise, though, they should consider other medical claims Immanuel has made—including those about alien DNA and the physical effects of having sex with witches and demons in your dreams.

Immanuel, a pediatrician and a religious minister, has a history of making bizarre claims about medical topics and other issues. She has often claimed that gynecological problems like cysts and endometriosis are in fact caused by people having sex in their dreams with demons and witches.

She alleges alien DNA is currently used in medical treatments, and that scientists are cooking up a vaccine to prevent people from being religious. And, despite appearing in Washington, D.C. to lobby Congress on Monday, she has said that the government is run in part not by humans but by “reptilians” and other aliens.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/stella-immanuel-trumps-new-covid-doctor-believes-in-alien-dna-demon-sperm-and-hydroxychloroquine?ref=home

You know guru is right we are just so quick to shut him down because we don't wanna hear his narrative. I'd love to hear him expand on these other brilliant takes from such a wise doctor

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on July 28, 2020, 08:10:52 AM

'Sex  in your dreams with demons and witches'?    Damn, even my dream sex life is boring.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 28, 2020, 08:22:12 AM

I would have hoped that alien DNA would have allowed me to do something cool like shoot lasers out of my eyes or something.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 28, 2020, 08:34:52 AM

Quest Diagnostics press release this morning:

https://newsroom.questdiagnostics.com/COVIDTestingUpdates

Demand for our molecular diagnostic testing remains high as the virus has spread across much of the United States, particularly the South, Southwest and West. Persistent high demand has strained our testing capacity and extended delays for test results (turnaround time*). As a result, our average turnaround time for reporting test results is now over two days for our priority 1 patients** and 7 days for all other patients.

We expect that as our capacity continues to grow, we will be able to return to average turnaround times in the range of 1 day for priority 1 patients and 3 days for most other patients. We have steadily added capacity since we began to provide services in early March, but it will take time to add more.

----------

And notably, Quest, which makes $$$ from testing, reminds us of our personal responsibility to take steps to (hopefully) avoid the need to be tested:

The pandemic continues to surge across much of the United States. The only way that we as a country can flatten the curve is if each of us takes personal responsibility – by washing hands often, avoiding people who are sick, staying six feet away from others and wearing a mask in public. The CDC provides helpful information on steps individuals can take on its website.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 28, 2020, 09:57:03 AM

Quote from: tower912 on July 28, 2020, 08:10:52 AM

'Sex  in your dreams with demons and witches'?    Damn, even my dream sex life is boring.   

Dr. Stella's HCQ COVID cure is 100% effective, but a lot of people don't want to take it because an unfortunate side effect is eliminating your sex dreams with witches.

You know, maybe guru is right, though. Maybe the Radical left whack jobs are freaking nauseating for not seriously considering the excellent doctor's opinions on witches, succubi, and alien DNA.

Quote from: muguru on July 27, 2020, 07:00:12 PM

Of course...who wouldn't have guessed that all the same Radical left whack jobs that infiltrate these boards wouldn't immediately dismiss this as being bunk because they simply don't want to hear it. It's so freaking nauseating how none of you will EVEN consider an alternate opinion/theory simply because of your agendas against bad orange man, and that is ALL it is. It's like clockwork...if it's not what they want to believe(even though she's a doctor and we are just message board posters), bash, bash, bash and dismiss. Although Fluffy is the closest thing we have on these boards to Dr. Fauci...just ask him.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 28, 2020, 10:01:04 AM

I learned of some new shortages over the weekend.  I went paddle boarding with the family on Long Island Sound.  Our acquaintance there said it's been a crazy year.  People were desperate to get out of the house and they were slammed with renters the begging of May and people had no problem going in the Sound despite the water still being cold in May.  Also said there is a paddle board and kayak shortage.  The manufacturers are way back ordered as everyone wants to purchase now and compounded by the factories being closed for awhile.  She normally sells the current year ones as used at the end of the season but can't this year because there's no guarantee there will be new ones available to replace by spring.  If any become available the manufacturers sell to the large store retailers like Dick's, but not not the small shops. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on July 28, 2020, 10:35:59 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 28, 2020, 08:22:12 AM

I would have hoped that alien DNA would have allowed me to do something cool like shoot lasers out of my eyes or something.

You are confusing that with "Superhero DNA".  Not all aliens are superheros.  Plus not all of the DNA is alien.  Some of it is still human.

The average American with alien DNA probably only has a little buggier eyes,  mild telepathy,  and maybe, if they are lucky,  an extensive knowledge of the Alpha Centauri system.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 28, 2020, 10:56:05 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 28, 2020, 10:01:04 AM

I learned of some new shortages over the weekend.  I went paddle boarding with the family on Long Island Sound.  Our acquaintance there said it's been a crazy year.  People were desperate to get out of the house and they were slammed with renters the begging of May and people had no problem going in the Sound despite the water still being cold in May.  Also said there is a paddle board and kayak shortage.  The manufacturers are way back ordered as everyone wants to purchase now and compounded by the factories being closed for awhile.  She normally sells the current year ones as used at the end of the season but can't this year because there's no guarantee there will be new ones available to replace by spring.  If any become available the manufacturers sell to the large store retailers like Dick's, but not not the small shops.

Not surprised to hear this.  Know some sporting goods companies have experienced quite a few out of stocks and shortages on a lot of equipment.  Golf courses have been slammed.  Tee times are scarce in the Milwaukee area.  To get a decent time or the time you want, you need to book a few days in advance at least

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on July 28, 2020, 10:58:22 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on July 28, 2020, 08:04:54 AM

And regarding that "foreign doctor" in the video guru shared yesterday:

A Houston doctor who praises hydroxychloroquine and says that face masks aren’t necessary to stop transmission of the highly contagious coronavirus has become a star on the right-wing internet, garnering tens of millions of views on Facebook on Monday alone. Donald Trump Jr. declared the video of Stella Immanuel a “must watch,” while Donald Trump himself retweeted the video.

Before Trump and his supporters embrace Immanuel’s medical expertise, though, they should consider other medical claims Immanuel has made—including those about alien DNA and the physical effects of having sex with witches and demons in your dreams.

Immanuel, a pediatrician and a religious minister, has a history of making bizarre claims about medical topics and other issues. She has often claimed that gynecological problems like cysts and endometriosis are in fact caused by people having sex in their dreams with demons and witches.

She alleges alien DNA is currently used in medical treatments, and that scientists are cooking up a vaccine to prevent people from being religious. And, despite appearing in Washington, D.C. to lobby Congress on Monday, she has said that the government is run in part not by humans but by “reptilians” and other aliens.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/stella-immanuel-trumps-new-covid-doctor-believes-in-alien-dna-demon-sperm-and-hydroxychloroquine?ref=home

Honestly, the medical profession needs to do a better job of removing people who are clearly not mentally competent from practicing medicine.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on July 28, 2020, 11:00:46 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 28, 2020, 10:01:04 AM

I learned of some new shortages over the weekend.  I went paddle boarding with the family on Long Island Sound.  Our acquaintance there said it's been a crazy year.  People were desperate to get out of the house and they were slammed with renters the begging of May and people had no problem going in the Sound despite the water still being cold in May.  Also said there is a paddle board and kayak shortage.  The manufacturers are way back ordered as everyone wants to purchase now and compounded by the factories being closed for awhile.  She normally sells the current year ones as used at the end of the season but can't this year because there's no guarantee there will be new ones available to replace by spring.  If any become available the manufacturers sell to the large store retailers like Dick's, but not not the small shops.

Bike shops in my area have a months-long wait list for new bikes, and even getting parts to repair an old bike can take weeks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 28, 2020, 11:07:32 AM

White House privately warns 11 cities must take “aggressive” action against coronavirus
https://publicintegrity.org/health/coronavirus-and-inequality/warning-from-birx-11-cities-must-take-coronavirus-aggressive-efforts/

Dr. Deborah Birx, a leader of the White House Coronavirus Task Force, warned state and local leaders in a private phone call Wednesday that 11 major cities are seeing increases in the percentage of tests coming back positive for COVID-19 and should take “aggressive” steps to mitigate their outbreaks.

The cities she identified were Baltimore, Cleveland, Columbus, Indianapolis, Las Vegas, Miami, Minneapolis, Nashville, New Orleans, Pittsburgh and St. Louis.

The call was yet another private warning about the seriousness of the coronavirus outbreaks given to local officials but not the public at large. It came less than a week after the Center for Public Integrity revealed that the White House compiled a detailed report showing 18 states were in the “red zone” for coronavirus cases but did not release it publicly.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 28, 2020, 11:27:35 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on July 28, 2020, 11:07:32 AM

White House privately warns 11 cities must take “aggressive” action against coronavirus
https://publicintegrity.org/health/coronavirus-and-inequality/warning-from-birx-11-cities-must-take-coronavirus-aggressive-efforts/

Dr. Deborah Birx, a leader of the White House Coronavirus Task Force, warned state and local leaders in a private phone call Wednesday that 11 major cities are seeing increases in the percentage of tests coming back positive for COVID-19 and should take “aggressive” steps to mitigate their outbreaks.

The cities she identified were Baltimore, Cleveland, Columbus, Indianapolis, Las Vegas, Miami, Minneapolis, Nashville, New Orleans, Pittsburgh and St. Louis.

The call was yet another private warning about the seriousness of the coronavirus outbreaks given to local officials but not the public at large. It came less than a week after the Center for Public Integrity revealed that the White House compiled a detailed report showing 18 states were in the “red zone” for coronavirus cases but did not release it publicly.

She should have actually involved the cities in the phone call. According to the article, officials in Baltimore and Cleveland - 2 of the cities she named - did not participate in the call and knew nothing about this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 28, 2020, 11:29:32 AM

Quote from: Jockey on July 28, 2020, 11:27:35 AM

She should have actually involved the cities in the phone call. According to the article, officials in Baltimore and Cleveland - 2 of the cities she named - did not participate in the call and knew nothing about this.

This illustrates the core of our problem.  It isn’t just a Covid issue.  We don’t share necessary information as a society and especially in government.  It’s inexcusable

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 28, 2020, 12:02:22 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on July 28, 2020, 08:09:49 AM

You know guru is right we are just so quick to shut him down because we don't wanna hear his narrative. I'd love to hear him expand on these other brilliant takes from such a wise doctor

Or why she has a GoFundMe account. Grifters gonna grift.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on July 28, 2020, 12:08:43 PM

Quote from: forgetful on July 28, 2020, 10:58:22 AM

Honestly, the medical profession needs to do a better job of removing people who are clearly not mentally competent from practicing medicine.

Then rural hospitals wouldn't have any doctors or nurses. It's scary the level of care you get in the USA outside of major metro areas.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on July 28, 2020, 12:50:59 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on July 28, 2020, 12:02:22 PM

Or why she has a GoFundMe account. Grifters gonna grift.

Well I mean the lamestream media won't pay her to appear on their shows to spout her well supported alternative facts. So of course she needs one. Anyone who avoided the liberal indoctrination of well respected schools could see that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 28, 2020, 12:56:25 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on July 28, 2020, 11:07:32 AM

White House privately warns 11 cities must take “aggressive” action against coronavirus
https://publicintegrity.org/health/coronavirus-and-inequality/warning-from-birx-11-cities-must-take-coronavirus-aggressive-efforts/

Dr. Deborah Birx, a leader of the White House Coronavirus Task Force, warned state and local leaders in a private phone call Wednesday that 11 major cities are seeing increases in the percentage of tests coming back positive for COVID-19 and should take “aggressive” steps to mitigate their outbreaks.

The cities she identified were Baltimore, Cleveland, Columbus, Indianapolis, Las Vegas, Miami, Minneapolis, Nashville, New Orleans, Pittsburgh and St. Louis.

The call was yet another private warning about the seriousness of the coronavirus outbreaks given to local officials but not the public at large. It came less than a week after the Center for Public Integrity revealed that the White House compiled a detailed report showing 18 states were in the “red zone” for coronavirus cases but did not release it publicly.

But if schools in those cities don't open to full in-person education ... hasn't the president threatened to withhold funding from such districts?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 28, 2020, 01:18:30 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on July 28, 2020, 11:00:46 AM

Bike shops in my area have a months-long wait list for new bikes, and even getting parts to repair an old bike can take weeks.

Same here. I need some work done that exceeds my skill level, so I made an appointment. Usually I can get in within a couple of days. This year, they're booked almost a month out....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 28, 2020, 01:40:02 PM

Four more Marlins players test positive - bringing the current total to 15 players and 2 coaches.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29552219/sources-four-more-marlins-test-positive-coronavirus-total-17

The Marlins have now had 17 people test positive in the past five days. On Monday, the total of confirmed cases stood at 11 players and two coaches.

A majority of Washington Nationals players have voted against traveling to Miami for this weekend's three-game series against the Marlins, sources confirmed to ESPN. However, the decision on whether the games are played rests with Major League Baseball, not the Nationals.

---------

Can't blame the Nationals for not wanting to go to Miami. As a matter of fact, I can't imagine any team being excited about going there...or Houston...or Phoenix. Should be interesting to see how it unfolds. As I understand it, there were very few open dates to begin with, so rescheduling would be problematic.

Should have followed the NBA bubble model....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 28, 2020, 01:49:17 PM

Apparently they have cancelled all Marlins' games through the end of the weekend.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 28, 2020, 01:49:57 PM

In retrospect, it probably would have been a better idea to schedule more double headers with more off days.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Billy Hoyle on July 28, 2020, 02:37:10 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 28, 2020, 10:01:04 AM

I learned of some new shortages over the weekend.  I went paddle boarding with the family on Long Island Sound.  Our acquaintance there said it's been a crazy year.  People were desperate to get out of the house and they were slammed with renters the begging of May and people had no problem going in the Sound despite the water still being cold in May.  Also said there is a paddle board and kayak shortage.  The manufacturers are way back ordered as everyone wants to purchase now and compounded by the factories being closed for awhile.  She normally sells the current year ones as used at the end of the season but can't this year because there's no guarantee there will be new ones available to replace by spring.  If any become available the manufacturers sell to the large store retailers like Dick's, but not not the small shops.

My wife and I have been unable to get free weights (barbells) as they are sold out everywhere, even on Amazon. One fitness supply shop we went to had some kettle bells and the owner told us he didn't remember ordering them specifically, just saying "send me what you have." Peloton bike and treadmill orders skyrocketed (glad I bought stock when I couldn't get the bike) with waits as long as 3 months - we won't get ours for another five weeks. Bike shops are cleared out too.  I was able to get my bike repaired in 48 hours over the weekend, but usually that's a place that can do the repair while I wait.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 28, 2020, 02:40:57 PM

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on July 28, 2020, 02:37:10 PM

My wife and I have been unable to get free weights (barbells) as they are sold out everywhere, even on Amazon. One fitness supply shop we went to had some kettle bells and the owner told us he didn't remember ordering them specifically, just saying "send me what you have." Peloton bike and treadmill orders skyrocketed (glad I bought stock when I couldn't get the bike) with waits as long as 3 months - we won't get ours for another five weeks. Bike shops are cleared out too.  I was able to get my bike repaired in 48 hours over the weekend, but usually that's a place that can do the repair while I wait.

I've been using extra landscaping bricks as my free weights.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 28, 2020, 02:46:26 PM

We are in the market for a new bike for my teenage daughter. Since she drives, we aren't looking for anything fancy. But oh my, entry level bike prices have skyrocketed. Yikes!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: copious1218 on July 28, 2020, 02:48:01 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on July 28, 2020, 01:18:30 PM

Same here. I need some work done that exceeds my skill level, so I made an appointment. Usually I can get in within a couple of days. This year, they're booked almost a month out....

Try finding a 4-bike hitch rack right now. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 28, 2020, 03:20:47 PM

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on July 28, 2020, 02:37:10 PM

My wife and I have been unable to get free weights (barbells) as they are sold out everywhere, even on Amazon. One fitness supply shop we went to had some kettle bells and the owner told us he didn't remember ordering them specifically, just saying "send me what you have." Peloton bike and treadmill orders skyrocketed (glad I bought stock when I couldn't get the bike) with waits as long as 3 months - we won't get ours for another five weeks. Bike shops are cleared out too.  I was able to get my bike repaired in 48 hours over the weekend, but usually that's a place that can do the repair while I wait.

I spent last week's staycation cleaning my basement after 20 years of out grown collected kids toys, clothes and other items, holiday decorations, books and a zillion other things.
I located my old school free weights.  They have never been used since I moved into my house in 1998.  They migrated from my mom's house at that time from where they were rarely used since purchased circa 1985. 
If some of you lived closer I may willing to sell inexpensively.  The weight bench itself is still at my mom's where it's being used as a storage shelf.

On second thought maybe I want to sell on e-bay after finding this with a shortage.  Damn! 
This is sort of what it looks like.  Mine is smaller and the weights are concrete donuts encased in plastic.
https://www.ebay.com/i/121962061340?chn=ps

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 28, 2020, 03:38:12 PM

Moved.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 28, 2020, 04:32:20 PM

As Trump called on states to reopen, a federal report urged 21 ‘red zone’ states to impose more restrictions.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/28/world/coronavirus-covid-19.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage#link-1e0e9a70

A new federal report found that the number of states with outbreaks serious enough to place them in the “red zone” had grown to 21, and urged officials in them to impose more restrictions.

The 21 states now in the “red zone” — Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Iowa, Kansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Nevada, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Utah and Wisconsin — were designated as such because they had more than 100 new cases per 100,000 people in the past week. Three more states were added to the most serious category since a similar report dated July 14: Missouri, North Dakota and Wisconsin.

The findings in the new report, which contained profiles of each state, were sent to state officials by the White House’s coronavirus task force and obtained by The New York Times.

-----------------

So...the White House's own coronavirus task force is saying 21 states are in the 'red zone' and calling on those states and more to impose more restrictions while POTUS continues to call for all schools to open?!?!?

They don't have a coordinated plan even within the White House...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 28, 2020, 04:51:15 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on July 28, 2020, 04:32:20 PM

As Trump called on states to reopen, a federal report urged 21 ‘red zone’ states to impose more restrictions.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/28/world/coronavirus-covid-19.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage#link-1e0e9a70

A new federal report found that the number of states with outbreaks serious enough to place them in the “red zone” had grown to 21, and urged officials in them to impose more restrictions.

The 21 states now in the “red zone” — Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Iowa, Kansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Nevada, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Utah and Wisconsin — were designated as such because they had more than 100 new cases per 100,000 people in the past week. Three more states were added to the most serious category since a similar report dated July 14: Missouri, North Dakota and Wisconsin.

The findings in the new report, which contained profiles of each state, were sent to state officials by the White House’s coronavirus task force and obtained by The New York Times.

-----------------

So...the White House's own coronavirus task force is saying 21 states are in the 'red zone' and calling on those states and more to impose more restrictions while POTUS continues to call for all schools to open?!?!?

They don't have a coordinated plan even within the White House...

It’s not surprising in the least and why we are where we are. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 28, 2020, 05:25:19 PM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 28, 2020, 04:51:15 PM

It’s not surprising in the least and why we are where we are.

You are right - it isn't surprising. And that is appalling.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 28, 2020, 10:04:54 PM

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on July 28, 2020, 02:37:10 PM

My wife and I have been unable to get free weights (barbells) as they are sold out everywhere, even on Amazon. One fitness supply shop we went to had some kettle bells and the owner told us he didn't remember ordering them specifically, just saying "send me what you have." Peloton bike and treadmill orders skyrocketed (glad I bought stock when I couldn't get the bike) with waits as long as 3 months - we won't get ours for another five weeks. Bike shops are cleared out too.  I was able to get my bike repaired in 48 hours over the weekend, but usually that's a place that can do the repair while I wait.

I'm excited for the garage sales in a year or two where I can get like new free weights and kayaks for next to nothing.  ;D

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on July 29, 2020, 09:24:47 AM

Texas congressman who's refused to wear a mask in the Capitol and elsewhere tests positive for corona.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/29/louis-gohmert-who-refused-to-wear-a-mask-tests-positive-for-coronavirus-386076

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 29, 2020, 12:43:47 PM

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheNBPA/status/1288506023549054976

The bubble is holding!!  #bucksin6

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on July 29, 2020, 01:01:00 PM

This is interesting and kind of baffling
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/29/asia/india-mumbai-slum-coronavirus-intl-hnk/index.html

But given gaps in medicine and likely testing/reporting in that country, large grains of salt must accompany any info coming out of Mumbai

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 29, 2020, 02:14:26 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on July 29, 2020, 09:24:47 AM

Texas congressman who's refused to wear a mask in the Capitol and elsewhere tests positive for corona.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/29/louis-gohmert-who-refused-to-wear-a-mask-tests-positive-for-coronavirus-386076

It gets worse...

"Gohmert, 66, said in a televised interview that he wonders if he may have caught the virus from wearing his mask.

'I can’t help but wonder ... if I injected the virus into my mask when I was moving,' he said in an interview."

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/07/29/louie-gohmert-coronavirus/amp/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 29, 2020, 02:20:33 PM

Gohmert has been a huge hydroxy believer.  Let's see how this pans out.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 29, 2020, 03:39:18 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on July 29, 2020, 02:14:26 PM

It gets worse...

"Gohmert, 66, said in a televised interview that he wonders if he may have caught the virus from wearing his mask.

'I can’t help but wonder ... if I injected the virus into my mask when I was moving,' he said in an interview."

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/07/29/louie-gohmert-coronavirus/amp/

Louie Gohmert is also affectionately known as America's Dumbest Congressperson.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 29, 2020, 04:08:14 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 29, 2020, 03:39:18 PM

Louie Gohmert is also affectionately known as America's Dumbest Congressperson.

A step up for Lil Louie.

Before being elected, he was affectionately know as America's Dumbest.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on July 29, 2020, 04:09:28 PM

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/didnt-run-plays-ex-officials-trump-administration-didnt-081634259--abc-news-topstories.html

Bush administration, Obama administration, both produced pandemic playbooks.    Table top exercises.  Notes.   Evaluations.   What worked and didn't during H1N1.     Trump administration ignored both.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 29, 2020, 04:18:24 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on July 29, 2020, 02:14:26 PM

It gets worse...

"Gohmert, 66, said in a televised interview that he wonders if he may have caught the virus from wearing his mask.

'I can’t help but wonder ... if I injected the virus into my mask when I was moving,' he said in an interview."

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/07/29/louie-gohmert-coronavirus/amp/

(https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.flyertalk.com-vbulletin/420x294/88253aa1_43b0_40f7_98a8_174695f8e65e_0869fcc3c63bae79504d14628cfc043af3aeabd6.png)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 29, 2020, 05:17:52 PM

More from Goober Gohmert:

“I can’t help but wonder if by keeping a mask on and keeping it in place that if I might have put some germs, some of the virus, onto the mask and breathed it in,” Gohmert told KETK News.

This is the inevitable end point of 40 years of anti-science, anti-intellectualism from Republicans--a President that tweets out support from a witchdoctor and a Congressman that thinks masks cause one to get sick.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 29, 2020, 06:10:56 PM

Quote from: tower912 on July 29, 2020, 04:09:28 PM

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/didnt-run-plays-ex-officials-trump-administration-didnt-081634259--abc-news-topstories.html

Bush administration, Obama administration, both produced pandemic playbooks.    Table top exercises.  Notes.   Evaluations.   What worked and didn't during H1N1.     Trump administration ignored both.   

“People say” trump has done the best job in the world on Covid. Who are we to argue?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 29, 2020, 06:13:06 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on July 29, 2020, 05:17:52 PM

More from Goober Gohmert:

“I can’t help but wonder if by keeping a mask on and keeping it in place that if I might have put some germs, some of the virus, onto the mask and breathed it in,” Gohmert told KETK News.

I’m an old man, but that may be the dumbest statement I have heard in my life.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: BM1090 on July 29, 2020, 06:31:59 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on July 29, 2020, 05:17:52 PM

More from Goober Gohmert:

“I can’t help but wonder if by keeping a mask on and keeping it in place that if I might have put some germs, some of the virus, onto the mask and breathed it in,” Gohmert told KETK News.

This is the inevitable end point of 40 years of anti-science, anti-intellectualism from Republicans--a President that tweets out support from a witchdoctor and a Congressman that thinks masks cause one to get sick.

I sure f*cking hope this is the end point.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on July 29, 2020, 06:52:01 PM

sports can survive if athletes can refrain from the clubs and house parties during their season. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 29, 2020, 07:43:36 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on July 29, 2020, 06:52:01 PM

sports can survive if athletes can refrain from the clubs and house parties during their season.

It would at least give them a fighting chance. The MLB ought to require that all players and household members act as though a stay at home order is in place, with the only exceptions being official team activities (practices, games, road trips). With the kind of money they make, they can get their groceries and other essentials delivered by GrubHub.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on July 29, 2020, 07:52:02 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on July 29, 2020, 07:43:36 PM

It would at least give them a fighting chance. The MLB ought to require that all players and household members act as though a stay at home order is in place, with the only exceptions being official team activities (practices, games, road trips). With the kind of money they make, they can get their groceries and other essentials delivered by GrubHub.

I think that was the expectation.  I know  Counsell brought up the sacrifices each of them had to make but said it was for a short time and if they are focused on their job and all have bought into the plan it gives them the best chance.

Its not too hard to figure out bars/clubs are just pools of viruses.  Even the baseball clubhouse is.  I am shocked they are using the club house.  MLB should go old school players carry a bag to and from games and change at the hotel

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on July 29, 2020, 10:41:28 PM

At-home COVID test could give results in 30 minutes.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/are-home-pregnancy-style-coronavirus-tests-finally-here?ref=home

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 30, 2020, 01:04:49 AM

United States is not in a position to get control of the virus. This is from Johns Hopkins (not from a witch doctor), so I guess we have to take it with a grain of salt.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 30, 2020, 01:08:02 AM

As I predicted a week or two ago, deaths are now skyrocketing. It’s gonna get worse. And then schools will open.

As I said yesterday, buckle up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 30, 2020, 02:18:35 AM

Quote from: Jockey on July 30, 2020, 01:04:49 AM

United States is not in a position to get control of the virus. This is from Johns Hopkins (not from a witch doctor), so I guess we have to take it with a grain of salt.

Our national strategy is find a vaccine. That’s it.

But we are done with economic relief too.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 30, 2020, 07:18:37 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on July 29, 2020, 10:41:28 PM

At-home COVID test could give results in 30 minutes.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/are-home-pregnancy-style-coronavirus-tests-finally-here?ref=home

Yes, please.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 30, 2020, 09:04:05 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 30, 2020, 02:18:35 AM

 

But we are done with economic relief too.

I disagree completely. Dems want it and trump wants re-election. McConnell will jump when trump tells him to jump (and won't come down til trump says it is OK).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on July 30, 2020, 09:25:52 AM

Quote from: Jockey on July 30, 2020, 09:04:05 AM

I disagree completely. Dems want it and trump wants re-election. McConnell will jump when trump tells him to jump (and won't come down til trump says it is OK).

Lots of pork in the latest proposal. Fighter jets? They suffering from the virus?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on July 30, 2020, 09:26:55 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on July 30, 2020, 09:25:52 AM

Lots of pork in the latest proposal. Fighter jets? They suffering from the virus?

And $1.5 billion for a new FBI headquarters lol

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on July 30, 2020, 09:30:17 AM

Appears we've lost one of our own.
RIP, Herman.

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/herman-cain-obituary/2020/07/30/id/979733/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on July 30, 2020, 09:33:53 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on July 30, 2020, 09:30:17 AM

Appears we've lost one of our own.
RIP, Herman.

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/herman-cain-obituary/2020/07/30/id/979733/

Likely caught Covid going to the Trump rally in Tulsa. Didn’t wear a mask.

Another completely avoidable death Trump bears responsibility for and will not care about.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 30, 2020, 09:44:35 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on July 30, 2020, 09:30:17 AM

Appears we've lost one of our own.
RIP, Herman.

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/herman-cain-obituary/2020/07/30/id/979733/

Had to see this coming.  We hadn't heard about him in weeks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on July 30, 2020, 09:54:21 AM

I hope this can serve as a wake up call to some to take it seriously. Unfortunately, I still see posts from people directly affected saying they don’t trust the media’s reporting of this and it’s their right not to wear a mask. Even Gohmert thought he contracted it from the mask.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on July 30, 2020, 10:04:28 AM

Quote from: cheebs09 on July 30, 2020, 09:54:21 AM

Gohmert thought he contracted it from the mask.

Mama says "stupid is as stupid does"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 30, 2020, 10:04:43 AM

Quote from: cheebs09 on July 30, 2020, 09:54:21 AM

I hope this can serve as a wake up call to some to take it seriously. Unfortunately, I still see posts from people directly affected saying they don’t trust the media’s reporting of this and it’s their right not to wear a mask. Even Gohmert thought he contracted it from the mask.

Including Cain's own twitter account less than 24 hours ago.

No wake up call for him.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on July 30, 2020, 10:07:20 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on July 30, 2020, 10:04:43 AM

Including Cain's own twitter account less than 24 hours ago.

No wake up call for him.

I suspect Herman hasn't been running his own twitter account in recent days, if ever.
Though I suppose there is some irony in the fact that the people he entrusted to run his social media played down the disease as he laid in a hospital dying from it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on July 30, 2020, 10:22:26 AM

Elections have consequences. Herman earned his spot.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 30, 2020, 10:24:06 AM

Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on July 30, 2020, 09:33:53 AM

Likely caught Covid going to the Trump rally in Tulsa. Didn’t wear a mask.

Another completely avoidable death Trump bears responsibility for and will not care about.

IIRC, he was actually not feeling a few days before the rally, but chose to show up anyway...unmasked...not social distancing. Let's hope he didn't take down others with him.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 30, 2020, 10:29:38 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on July 30, 2020, 10:07:20 AM

I suspect Herman hasn't been running his own twitter account in recent days, if ever.
Though I suppose there is some irony in the fact that the people he entrusted to run his social media played down the disease as he laid in a hospital dying from it.

Let's just say, "He's not the only one."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 30, 2020, 10:57:27 AM

Quote from: Jockey on July 30, 2020, 01:08:02 AM

As I predicted a week or two ago, deaths are now skyrocketing. It’s gonna get worse. And then schools will open.

As I said yesterday, buckle up.

Deaths are up but to explain it as skyrocketing is a bit extreme.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on July 30, 2020, 10:59:57 AM

Quote from: Jockey on July 30, 2020, 01:08:02 AM

As I predicted a week or two ago, deaths are now skyrocketing. It’s gonna get worse. And then schools will open.

As I said yesterday, buckle up.

Skyrocketing? According to what? The trend isn’t going down and that’s concerning. And it’s definitely rising in some places, but I don’t see the need for hyperbole here. Things are concerning and caution worthy enough without that sort of exaggeration.

If the death counts spiked over 2000 per day, I could see that label, but it’s not as of yet. With Arizona and Texas on new case downtrends, let’s hope it doesn’t get there.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 30, 2020, 11:01:15 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on July 30, 2020, 10:59:57 AM

Skyrocketing? According to what? The trend isn’t going down and that’s concerning. And it’s definitely rising in some places, but I don’t see the need for hyperbole here. Things are concerning and caution worthy enough without that sort of exaggeration.

If the death counts spiked over 2000 per day, I could see that label, but it’s not as of yet. With Arizona and Texas on new case downtrends, let’s hope it doesn’t get there.

👏👏👏👏👏 hyperbole helps nothing. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 30, 2020, 11:41:31 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on July 30, 2020, 10:59:57 AM

Skyrocketing? According to what? The trend isn’t going down and that’s concerning. And it’s definitely rising in some places, but I don’t see the need for hyperbole here. Things are concerning and caution worthy enough without that sort of exaggeration.

If the death counts spiked over 2000 per day, I could see that label, but it’s not as of yet. With Arizona and Texas on new case downtrends, let’s hope it doesn’t get there.

There is an ~ 28 day lag between cases and deaths. IMO, just project the cases out 4 weeks and you should be able to predict the trend, if not the absolute magnitude (thanks to improving treatments).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on July 30, 2020, 12:02:14 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on July 30, 2020, 11:41:31 AM

There is an ~ 28 day lag between cases and deaths. IMO, just project the cases out 4 weeks and you should be able to predict the trend, if not the absolute magnitude (thanks to improving treatments).

I understand. But that’s not what a was responding to. I’ve looked at various trend lines and haven’t seen anything to suggest a “skyrocketing” now or in the near term. I’m not denying an uptrend, let’s make that clear, was purely responding to hyperbole.  Rolling 7 day hospitalization trends falling in Arizona for the last 2-3 weeks, Texas for the last week plus, make me think that daily totals may continue to rise for another week or so, but I don’t expect “skyrocketing” numbers over 2000 a day like I mentioned.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on July 30, 2020, 12:11:15 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on July 30, 2020, 12:02:14 PM

I understand. But that’s not what a was responding to. I’ve looked at various trend lines and haven’t seen anything to suggest a “skyrocketing” now or in the near term. I’m not denying an uptrend, let’s make that clear, was purely responding to hyperbole.  Rolling 7 day hospitalization trends falling in Arizona for the last 2-3 weeks, Texas for the last week plus, make me think that daily totals may continue to rise for another week or so, but I don’t expect “skyrocketing” numbers over 2000 a day like I mentioned.

I mean it's all relative.  On July 6 the 7 day avg US deaths was 520, as of yesterday that number is 1022.  Doubling in 23 days is really bad.  Not far from skyrocketing...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on July 30, 2020, 12:18:17 PM

You guys discussing 'skyrocketing' reminds me of the circular, "It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 30, 2020, 01:20:04 PM

Quote from: Skatastrophy on July 30, 2020, 12:18:17 PM

You guys discussing 'skyrocketing' reminds me of the circular, "It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is."

Exactly

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 30, 2020, 01:37:18 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on July 30, 2020, 12:11:15 PM

I mean it's all relative.  On July 6 the 7 day avg US deaths was 520, as of yesterday that number is 1022.  Doubling in 23 days is really bad.  Not far from skyrocketing...

Going from 520 to 1022 in less than a month is skyrocketing in my book, especially since we could have prevented the increase if we had actually followed the initial CDC guidelines on reopening. Not every death is preventable - other countries have proven that - but the rapid doubling caused by an impatient reopening and a petulant populace most certainly was preventable.

And let's all remember - the summer was supposed to be relatively calm before schools (maybe) opened up, flu season starts again, etc. Buckle up, folks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on July 30, 2020, 02:25:39 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on July 30, 2020, 01:37:18 PM

Going from 520 to 1022 in less than a month is skyrocketing in my book, especially since we could have prevented the increase if we had actually followed the initial CDC guidelines on reopening. Not every death is preventable - other countries have proven that - but the rapid doubling caused by an impatient reopening and a petulant populace most certainly was preventable.

And let's all remember - the summer was supposed to be relatively calm before schools (maybe) opened up, flu season starts again, etc. Buckle up, folks.

This is still the scary part. We had hospital inundated right now. And honestly, the COVID case load wasn't that extreme. If things ramp up in winter, and we have even a mild flu season, our hospital systems will be well beyond capacity.

That is why schools being open is particularly troublesome, especially higher ed. Although those under 25 do tend to survive, they still do require hospitalization and stress resources. A rise in cases due to schools, could break the system on its own.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on July 30, 2020, 03:58:59 PM

EVERYONE NEEDS TO GET A FLU SHOT THIS YEAR

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 30, 2020, 04:06:07 PM

Quote from: Coleman on July 30, 2020, 03:58:59 PM

EVERYONE NEEDS TO GET A FLU SHOT THIS YEAR

Yeah, I normally don't get one, never had the flu. I am getting one this year!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on July 30, 2020, 06:02:13 PM

Quote from: forgetful on July 30, 2020, 02:25:39 PM

This is still the scary part. We had hospital inundated right now. And honestly, the COVID case load wasn't that extreme. If things ramp up in winter, and we have even a mild flu season, our hospital systems will be well beyond capacity.

That is why schools being open is particularly troublesome, especially higher ed. Although those under 25 do tend to survive, they still do require hospitalization and stress resources. A rise in cases due to schools, could break the system on its own.

Yep, and the early research returns are that younger people spreading is hitting multigenerational homes hard, which preminently impacts PoC. In other words, music to GOP ears.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on July 30, 2020, 06:25:08 PM

Quote from: GB Warrior on July 30, 2020, 06:02:13 PM

Yep, and the early research returns are that younger people spreading is hitting multigenerational homes hard, which preminently impacts PoC. In other words, music to GOP ears.

So I guess this means that you and the Dems are positively giddy about all the old white people who are dying.

C’mon, man.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 30, 2020, 06:44:21 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on July 30, 2020, 12:02:14 PM

I understand. But that’s not what a was responding to. I’ve looked at various trend lines and haven’t seen anything to suggest a “skyrocketing” now or in the near term. I’m not denying an uptrend, let’s make that clear, was purely responding to hyperbole.  Rolling 7 day hospitalization trends falling in Arizona for the last 2-3 weeks, Texas for the last week plus, make me think that daily totals may continue to rise for another week or so, but I don’t expect “skyrocketing” numbers over 2000 a day like I mentioned.

I’m not here to argue about hyperbole or ‘I called that’ stuff. 

I would say though a month+ ago there was a debate whether more cases mattered.  More testing, Better treatments, younger cases, earlier interventions, etc.   Watch the hospitalizations.

The reality is it was bad then and bad now.  This is a result of out of control spread which led to more cases which led to more hospitalizations which now is leading to more deaths.

Let’s learn something instead of dismissing the data and looking for the silver lining.  We need to accept that uncontrolled spread is bad for health, economy, education and all of us getting through this. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 30, 2020, 06:56:52 PM

[quote author=Frenns Liquor Depot

Let’s learn something instead of dismissing the data and looking for the silver lining.  We need to accept that uncontrolled spread is bad for health, economy, education and all of us getting through this.
[/quote]


While you are 100% correct, what I think we really need to learn is that everybody needs to wear a mask. That is my takeaway from the numbers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 30, 2020, 08:40:29 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=363&v=4TogbPPyQQM&feature=emb_logo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=363&v=4TogbPPyQQM&feature=emb_logo)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 30, 2020, 08:41:03 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on July 30, 2020, 08:40:29 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=363&v=4TogbPPyQQM&feature=emb_logo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=363&v=4TogbPPyQQM&feature=emb_logo)

Far better acting than most SNL skits

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on July 30, 2020, 10:34:43 PM

"How Jared Kushner's secret testing plan went poof, into thin air"

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/07/how-jared-kushners-secret-testing-plan-went-poof-into-thin-air

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on July 31, 2020, 12:40:35 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on July 30, 2020, 10:59:57 AM

Skyrocketing? According to what? The trend isn’t going down and that’s concerning. And it’s definitely rising in some places, but I don’t see the need for hyperbole here. Things are concerning and caution worthy enough without that sort of exaggeration.

If the death counts spiked over 2000 per day, I could see that label, but it’s not as of yet. With Arizona and Texas on new case downtrends, let’s hope it doesn’t get there.

sky·rock·et
/ˈskīˌräkət/
Learn to pronounce
verbinformal
gerund or present participle: skyrocketing

    (of a price, rate, or amount) increase very steeply or rapidly.
    "the cost of housing has skyrocketed"

From 520-1,022 nationally in a couple of weeks? "Skyrocketing " seems to fit.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Big Papi on July 31, 2020, 09:17:44 AM

Quote from: Mutaman on July 31, 2020, 12:40:35 AM

sky·rock·et
/ˈskīˌräkət/
Learn to pronounce
verbinformal
gerund or present participle: skyrocketing

    (of a price, rate, or amount) increase very steeply or rapidly.
    "the cost of housing has skyrocketed"

From 520-1,022 nationally in a couple of weeks? "Skyrocketing " seems to fit.

I guess it depends on the denominator. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 31, 2020, 09:49:22 AM

I didn’t mean to start a huge discussion when I said deaths were going to skyrocket. Based on what I read, I felt we were approaching a time when deaths were going to go up dramatically - doubling or more from the level it was at when I wrote the post.

Maybe a bit too much “drama queen” to my post, but with 153,000+ deaths and a Fed that doesn’t want to be bothered anymore, someone (or millions of someones) needs to be screaming from the rooftops.

I relish the opportunity to do it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 31, 2020, 01:48:43 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on July 30, 2020, 12:11:15 PM

I mean it's all relative.  On July 6 the 7 day avg US deaths was 520, as of yesterday that number is 1022.  Doubling in 23 days is really bad.  Not far from skyrocketing...

1465 each of the last two days. The new case data suggests we are still 2-3 weeks from deaths peaking. Skyrocketing seems pretty accurate.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on July 31, 2020, 04:56:36 PM

Jared screwed this up so bad.   Didn't initially want widespread testing as it would help blue states.   So, tasked to develop a testing plan and then just... Didn't.     

Subpoena that

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on July 31, 2020, 05:09:07 PM

Quote from: tower912 on July 31, 2020, 04:56:36 PM

Jared screwed this up so bad.   Didn't initially want widespread testing as it would help blue states.   So, tasked to develop a testing plan and then just... Didn't.     

Subpoena that

Subpoenas don't matter anymore

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on July 31, 2020, 05:12:35 PM

Touche

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 31, 2020, 05:51:47 PM

Quote from: tower912 on July 31, 2020, 04:56:36 PM

Jared screwed this up so bad.   Didn't initially want widespread testing as it would help blue states.   So, tasked to develop a testing plan and then just... Didn't.     

Subpoena that

Jared is doing exactly what trump and the R's want. Remember, these are the same guys who voted against hurricane relief for blue states after Sandy.

Cruelty IS the point.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on August 01, 2020, 07:31:35 PM

More positive tests on the Cardinals today, so tomorrow’s game against the Brewers has been postponed again. When are they going to learn that this is futile? They haven’t even played a single game in Miami yet and we’ve already had quite a number of games postponed due to positive cases.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/08/01/cardinals-coronavirus-outbreak/

Major League Baseball’s hopes of salvaging its 2020 season amid a pandemic took another ominous turn Saturday, when the St. Louis Cardinals received word of additional positive tests for the novel coronavirus, requiring the postponement of the entire Cardinals-Brewers weekend series in Milwaukee and deepening the level of pessimism around the sport that the season can go on.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 01, 2020, 07:32:57 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on August 01, 2020, 07:31:35 PM

More positive tests on the Cardinals today, so tomorrow’s game against the Brewers has been postponed again. When are they going to learn that this is futile? They haven’t even played a single game in Miami yet and we’ve already had quite a number of games postponed due to positive cases.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/08/01/cardinals-coronavirus-outbreak/

Major League Baseball’s hopes of salvaging its 2020 season amid a pandemic took another ominous turn Saturday, when the St. Louis Cardinals received word of additional positive tests for the novel coronavirus, requiring the postponement of the entire Cardinals-Brewers weekend series in Milwaukee and deepening the level of pessimism around the sport that the season can go on.

I’m sure they tested the Right Way though.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on August 01, 2020, 10:49:19 PM

27 year Red Sox player, Eduardo Rodriguez, has been ruled out for the 2020 season due to developing heart issues following his bout with COVID-19.

https://twitter.com/WCVB/status/1289667334420836352?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on August 01, 2020, 11:08:29 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on August 01, 2020, 10:49:19 PM

27 year Red Sox player, Eduardo Rodriguez, has been ruled out for the 2020 season due to developing heart issues following his bout with COVID-19.

https://twitter.com/WCVB/status/1289667334420836352?s=19

Ugh. Even ‘recovery’ sucks with this illness.

Can people finally stop suggesting we just isolate the elderly and others with known risk factors?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on August 01, 2020, 11:33:23 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on August 01, 2020, 10:49:19 PM

27 year Red Sox player, Eduardo Rodriguez, has been ruled out for the 2020 season due to developing heart issues following his bout with COVID-19.

https://twitter.com/WCVB/status/1289667334420836352?s=19

I wonder if this accelerates/increases athletes deciding to sit out this season.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 02, 2020, 09:55:40 AM

Truly, it takes an effort to be this stupid.

Donald Trump claims Anthony Fauci 'wrong' about cause of Covid-19 surge
"Donald Trump launched an extraordinary attack on his own top infectious disease expert, Dr Anthony Fauci, arguing against the doctor’s claim that high rates of infection in the US stem from a less aggressive reaction to the virus in terms of economic shutdowns and stay-at-home orders.

“Wrong!” countered the president as he retweeted a video of Fauci making the point in recent congressional testimony.

Trump furiously countered: “We have more cases because we have tested far more than any other country, 60,000,000. If we tested less, there would be less cases. How did Italy, France & Spain do? Now Europe sadly has flare ups. Most of our governors worked hard & smart. We will come back STRONG!”

Let's see:
Daily Deaths (7-day moving average)
Spain: 2
Italy: 6
France: 10
United States: 1,129

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 02, 2020, 09:58:22 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 02, 2020, 09:55:40 AM

Truly, it takes an effort to be this stupid.

Donald Trump claims Anthony Fauci 'wrong' about cause of Covid-19 surge
"Donald Trump launched an extraordinary attack on his own top infectious disease expert, Dr Anthony Fauci, arguing against the doctor’s claim that high rates of infection in the US stem from a less aggressive reaction to the virus in terms of economic shutdowns and stay-at-home orders.

“Wrong!” countered the president as he retweeted a video of Fauci making the point in recent congressional testimony.

Trump furiously countered: “We have more cases because we have tested far more than any other country, 60,000,000. If we tested less, there would be less cases. How did Italy, France & Spain do? Now Europe sadly has flare ups. Most of our governors worked hard & smart. We will come back STRONG!”

Let's see:
Daily Deaths (7-day moving average)
Spain: 2
Italy: 6
France: 10
United States: 1,129

So, he’s right.

We’re winning. America always wins. We win tremendously big.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on August 02, 2020, 10:41:40 AM

He was right.   I'm tired of winning.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on August 02, 2020, 01:59:15 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 02, 2020, 09:55:40 AM

Trump furiously countered: “We have more cases because we have tested far more than any other country, 60,000,000. If we tested less, there would be less cases. How did Italy, France & Spain do? Now Europe sadly has flare ups. Most of our governors worked hard & smart. We will come back STRONG!”

Maybe Herman Cain would still be fine if only he didn't get tested.

Quote from: tower912 on August 02, 2020, 10:41:40 AM

He was right.   I'm tired of winning.

Me too. Things were so much better when we were losing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on August 02, 2020, 03:13:45 PM

Winning is overrated.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Johnny B on August 02, 2020, 06:24:45 PM

Stop testing for cancer and the number of cancer cases will plummet. Good logic

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on August 02, 2020, 06:53:57 PM

Quote from: Johnny B on August 02, 2020, 06:24:45 PM

Stop testing for cancer and the number of cancer cases will plummet. Good logic

Don’t test trend for pregnancy and we will no longer have teen pregnancies!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on August 03, 2020, 12:51:39 AM

Quote from: mu03eng on February 26, 2020, 09:25:00 AM

Vigilance is obviously necessary, but I'm going to go on record as saying we will look back in 5 years on the Covid-19 virus hub bub as overblown and closer to SARs or Asian Birdflu than some global death pandemic.

God I wish this had aged well

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on August 03, 2020, 08:27:53 AM

Quote from: ZaLiN on August 03, 2020, 12:51:39 AM

God I wish this had aged well

Me too. But to be fair to Eng, back then many assumed CDC would be allowed (and able) to do its job like it did in previous pandemics. I certainly assumed that back in February. Then CDC messed up the initial tests, got pulled off the case ("I take no responsibility at all"), and suddenly the states were forced to deal with something they were never supposed to have to deal with. Game over.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 03, 2020, 09:14:50 AM

Quote from: ZaLiN on August 03, 2020, 12:51:39 AM

God I wish this had aged well

Give Forgetful credit. He was 1st to post how this could get bad (back in January).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on August 03, 2020, 09:26:36 AM

Yikes! I won't be counting on many of these folks to be wearing masks. It helps that many of the activities are outside, there is plenty of bar activity as well.

Annual Sturgis rally expecting 250,000 people, stirring virus concerns

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/08/02/annual-sturgis-rally-expecting-250000-people-stirring-virus-concerns

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on August 03, 2020, 09:42:48 AM

'Murica!

We aren't getting past this until a vaccine is created and then I am not even sure of it then. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 03, 2020, 09:45:14 AM

Can't really blame those small business owners.  Going forward or losing your business are two bad options. They are choosing the one they feel has the least negative impact.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on August 03, 2020, 09:46:08 AM

Short term gain for long term pain.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on August 03, 2020, 10:11:54 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on August 03, 2020, 09:46:08 AM

Short term gain for long term pain.

If you’re a small business owner, it’s short term gain or certain death. Make mandates about mask usage, do what you can to encourage or enforce correct behavior with the pandemic, but vilifying people trying to make any money they can as “short term gain”, and somehow selfish creating long term pain, is ignorant as to what many business owners are going through.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on August 03, 2020, 10:30:52 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 02, 2020, 09:55:40 AM

Let's see:
Daily Deaths (7-day moving average)
Spain: 2
Italy: 6
France: 10
United States: 1,129

bUt We HaVe A bIgGeR pOpUlAtIoN!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on August 03, 2020, 10:32:31 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on August 03, 2020, 09:42:48 AM

'Murica!

We aren't getting past this until a vaccine is created and then I am not even sure of it then.

30% of Americans have already said they won't take the vaccine.

You can't fix stupid

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on August 03, 2020, 11:00:13 AM

Quote from: Coleman on August 03, 2020, 10:32:31 AM

30% of Americans have already said they won't take the vaccine.

You can't fix stupid

This makes me wonder if it doesn’t matter who was President, we would have still had a tough go of it. It probably would have been better, but we are so divided on each side, it’s tough to come together on anything. The federal government can only do so much. At the end of the day, it’s each person who has to have some discipline to get through this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 03, 2020, 11:08:20 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on August 03, 2020, 10:11:54 AM

If you’re a small business owner, it’s short term gain or certain death. Make mandates about mask usage, do what you can to encourage or enforce correct behavior with the pandemic, but vilifying people trying to make any money they can as “short term gain”, and somehow selfish creating long term pain, is ignorant as to what many business owners are going through.

I think this fits a narrative and certainly can be true to capture a short-term opportunity like Sturgis.

However, if you are a ongoing concern, the most important thing you can do is create an environment where the most people feel safe and willing to return.  That is actually what is holding back the economy (virus/willingness to spend/uncertainty of employment).  Catering to the folks who militantly believe they are safe everywhere is not the best way to make it to the other side in my opinion...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on August 03, 2020, 11:10:54 AM

I have spelled out elsewhere how I think COVID should have been handled.   As to mask wearing and vaccines, I agree that there would have been a percentage that would refuse vaccines regardless of who was in charge.   
(A) 70% gets close to herd immunity.
(B) to quote a famous comedian philosopher, "You can't fix stupid.".   Let them catch it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 03, 2020, 11:49:33 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on August 03, 2020, 10:11:54 AM

If you’re a small business owner, it’s short term gain or certain death. Make mandates about mask usage, do what you can to encourage or enforce correct behavior with the pandemic, but vilifying people trying to make any money they can as “short term gain”, and somehow selfish creating long term pain, is ignorant as to what many business owners are going through.

On the surface, your suggestion about masks sounds reasonable. But I have been to Sturgis. The rally there is several degrees right of Attila the Hun. If there was a mask mandate and police attempted to enforce it, riots would ensue (and trump would defend the rioters).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on August 03, 2020, 11:50:54 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on August 03, 2020, 08:27:53 AM

Me too. But to be fair to Eng, back then many assumed CDC would be allowed (and able) to do its job like it did in previous pandemics. I certainly assumed that back in February. Then CDC messed up the initial tests, got pulled off the case ("I take no responsibility at all"), and suddenly the states were forced to deal with something they were never supposed to have to deal with. Game over.

Eng, was not meant to call you out, but rather wistful thinking on my part.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 03, 2020, 12:02:05 PM

Quote from: Coleman on August 03, 2020, 10:32:31 AM

30% of Americans have already said they won't take the vaccine.

You can't fix stupid

Things may change by the time a vaccine is ready for the public.

If Biden is in charge most people will get the vaccine because it will be the experts that are recommending it and vouching for its safety. If trump is in charge, it will be at least 30%, maybe much higher.

We can laugh about trump's sex alien witch doctor or the utter incompetence of Birx, but people take their lives seriously. Even Rs. People absolutely will not trust trump with their lives or the lives of their families. By shutting out Fauci and other true experts in the field, he is courting one more disaster. I know I won't get it if it is pushed by trump and Jared without the experts being fully on board.

What would you do if trump says the vaccine is ready and Fauci says it hasn't had enough testing?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on August 03, 2020, 12:02:29 PM

Quote from: tower912 on August 03, 2020, 11:10:54 AM

I have spelled out elsewhere how I think COVID should have been handled.   As to mask wearing and vaccines, I agree that there would have been a percentage that would refuse vaccines regardless of who was in charge.   
(A) 70% gets close to herd immunity.
(B) to quote a famous comedian philosopher, "You can't fix stupid.".   Let them catch it.

Frenns posted the article last week where it's estimated only 43% to 66% need to be vaccinated for herd immunity.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on August 03, 2020, 01:37:32 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on August 03, 2020, 12:02:29 PM

Frenns posted the article last week where it's estimated only 43% to 66% need to be vaccinated for herd immunity.

But those percentages are completely dependent on the effectiveness of the vaccine. If the vaccine is only 50% or less effective (a highly likely scenario), the numbers go up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on August 03, 2020, 02:00:55 PM

"How the Pandemic defeated America."

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/09/coronavirus-american-failure/614191/?utm_term=2020-08-03T09%3A00%3A36&utm_content=edit-promo&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=the-atlantic

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 03, 2020, 02:39:54 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on August 03, 2020, 02:00:55 PM

"How the Pandemic defeated America."

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/09/coronavirus-american-failure/614191/?utm_term=2020-08-03T09%3A00%3A36&utm_content=edit-promo&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=the-atlantic

Man is that spot on:

"Despite ample warning, the U.S. squandered every possible opportunity to control the coronavirus. And despite its considerable advantages—immense resources, biomedical might, scientific expertise—it floundered. While countries as different as South Korea, Thailand, Iceland, Slovakia, and Australia acted decisively to bend the curve of infections downward, the U.S. achieved merely a plateau in the spring, which changed to an appalling upward slope in the summer. “The U.S. fundamentally failed in ways that were worse than I ever could have imagined,” Julia Marcus, an infectious-disease epidemiologist at Harvard Medical School, told me.

Since the pandemic began, I have spoken with more than 100 experts in a variety of fields. I’ve learned that almost everything that went wrong with America’s response to the pandemic was predictable and preventable. A sluggish response by a government denuded of expertise allowed the coronavirus to gain a foothold. Chronic underfunding of public health neutered the nation’s ability to prevent the pathogen’s spread. A bloated, inefficient health-care system left hospitals ill-prepared for the ensuing wave of sickness. Racist policies that have endured since the days of colonization and slavery left Indigenous and Black Americans especially vulnerable to COVID‑19. The decades-long process of shredding the nation’s social safety net forced millions of essential workers in low-paying jobs to risk their life for their livelihood. The same social-media platforms that sowed partisanship and misinformation during the 2014 Ebola outbreak in Africa and the 2016 U.S. election became vectors for conspiracy theories during the 2020 pandemic.

The U.S. has little excuse for its inattention. In recent decades, epidemics of SARS, MERS, Ebola, H1N1 flu, Zika, and monkeypox showed the havoc that new and reemergent pathogens could wreak. Health experts, business leaders, and even middle schoolers ran simulated exercises to game out the spread of new diseases. In 2018, I wrote an article for The Atlantic arguing that the U.S. was not ready for a pandemic, and sounded warnings about the fragility of the nation’s health-care system and the slow process of creating a vaccine. But the COVID‑19 debacle has also touched—and implicated—nearly every other facet of American society: its shortsighted leadership, its disregard for expertise, its racial inequities, its social-media culture, and its fealty to a dangerous strain of individualism."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Babybluejeans on August 03, 2020, 03:53:02 PM

In the same way major wars and events have marked the close of past empires, the 2020 pandemic will be the moment that history points to as the end of the U.S. empire.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on August 03, 2020, 04:21:14 PM

Indiana University Football Freshman Offensive Lineman Brady Feeney is in a very difficult battle with COVID-19 according to his mom, also having heart issues in addition to breathing.

https://twitter.com/SamBlum3/status/1290372030085451776?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on August 03, 2020, 04:45:28 PM

Quote from: Babybluejeans on August 03, 2020, 03:53:02 PM

In the same way major wars and events have marked the close of past empires, the 2020 pandemic will be the moment that history points to as the end of the U.S. empire.

SHEESH that’s a hot take. The US has handled this poorly but nothing you could base the “decline” of the US vs other Western nations (education, life span, infant mortality, per capita GDP, etc...) will be long term seismically shifted in ways that didn’t affect other nations. This is a “rah rah US NUMBA 1” objection as much as pointing out how quickly people make incorrect long term assessments based on short term situations.

Quote from: shoothoops on August 03, 2020, 04:21:14 PM

Indiana University Football Freshman Offensive Lineman Brady Feeney is in a very difficult battle with COVID-19 according to his mom, also having heart issues in addition to breathing.

https://twitter.com/SamBlum3/status/1290372030085451776?s=19

Not for nothing, and thoughts and prayers with him and his family, but this is the kind of “young athlete” who would have issues. He may have been healthy, but he’s 300+ lbs and surely not chiseled out of granite. He’s listed at 325 according to IU, and 285 in his senior year recruiting information. If with some exaggeration on IU’s part, it’s very common for young OL to put on unhealthy levels of weight in a hurry to get up to D1 standard size. Which is significant as we’ve seen weight be a substantial factor for COVID.

I don’t necessarily think this is a good example for “this can affect young people too!” However on the flip side, it is a very valid concern for NFL and CFB with the weights on many players

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on August 03, 2020, 05:26:02 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on August 03, 2020, 04:45:28 PM

Not for nothing, and thoughts and prayers with him and his family, but this is the kind of “young athlete” who would have issues. He may have been healthy, but he’s 300+ lbs and surely not chiseled out of granite. He’s listed at 325 according to IU, and 285 in his senior year recruiting information. If with some exaggeration on IU’s part, it’s very common for young OL to put on unhealthy levels of weight in a hurry to get up to D1 standard size. Which is significant as we’ve seen weight be a substantial factor for COVID.

I don’t necessarily think this is a good example for “this can affect young people too!” However on the flip side, it is a very valid concern for NFL and CFB with the weights on many players

True, his weight is probably a factor. But the rate of obesity in the US general population - including 'young people' - is ridiculously high. According to the CDC, an astonishing 40% of people age 20-39 are obese. To me, that DOES mean COVID "can affect young people too"...or at least a pretty substantial percentage of young people.

And I understand that many of those obese people probably aren't anywhere near the 325-ish that this guy weighs. But most of them aren't major D1 athletes either, and many people who weigh far less than him might struggle getting out of a chair or walking up a flight of stairs. Bottom line - yes, this guy is 'obese,' but there are plenty of other young obese people who are at far higher risk than this guy IMO.

https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 03, 2020, 05:43:53 PM

At least we can explain away every death.  Makes me feel better. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on August 03, 2020, 05:57:57 PM

I feel so much better about the pandemic after today’s covid briefing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Marquette Gyros on August 03, 2020, 06:25:41 PM

Quote from: cheebs09 on August 03, 2020, 11:00:13 AM

This makes me wonder if it doesn’t matter who was President, we would have still had a tough go of it. It probably would have been better, but we are so divided on each side, it’s tough to come together on anything. The federal government can only do so much. At the end of the day, it’s each person who has to have some discipline to get through this.

+1

And perhaps if we had a different president, there wouldn’t have been “sides” to how we approached this global pandemic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on August 03, 2020, 06:28:17 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on August 03, 2020, 05:26:02 PM

True, his weight is probably a factor. But the rate of obesity in the US general population - including 'young people' - is ridiculously high. According to the CDC, an astonishing 40% of people age 20-39 are obese. To me, that DOES mean COVID "can affect young people too"...or at least a pretty substantial percentage of young people.

And I understand that many of those obese people probably aren't anywhere near the 325-ish that this guy weighs. But most of them aren't major D1 athletes either, and many people who weigh far less than him might struggle getting out of a chair or walking up a flight of stairs. Bottom line - yes, this guy is 'obese,' but there are plenty of other young obese people who are at far higher risk than this guy IMO.

https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html

I don’t disagree. Weight is the big equalizer among at risk groups. I wish this would make people wake up about that, but I know it’s a pipe dream. It’s become far too normalized

And Frenn, I’m not explaining away anyone’s potential death. I’ve firmly been of the belief in all these threads that correct information and not broad brush generalizing is most key for this pandemic. Not using singular examples, sad as they may be to stoke undue  fear, just like incorrect or half baked conclusions to make it seem like it’s not a big deal at all. Everyone has someone close to them that has one of a variety of risk factors. Encouraging or forcing them to think of those people instead of using someone with nothing in common with them but age to make them scared into submission. Easier said than done, but that doesn’t make my mindset incorrect. I’ve just seen far too much over the top blanket warning or fear stoking, even before COVID, get brushed aside for being absurdist.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 03, 2020, 06:45:56 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on August 03, 2020, 06:28:17 PM

I don’t disagree. Weight is the big equalizer among at risk groups. I wish this would make people wake up about that, but I know it’s a pipe dream. It’s become far too normalized

In a PC world, it’s not even allowable to mention how terrible that obesity is for one’s health.

We can’t offend people.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 03, 2020, 09:05:30 PM

Today’s tally

France - 0 new cases
Spain - 0 new cases
US - 49,000 new cases

Thank you, bunker Boy. Send the kids back to school.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on August 03, 2020, 09:25:20 PM

Quote from: Jockey on August 03, 2020, 09:05:30 PM

Today’s tally

France - 0 new cases
Spain - 0 new cases
US - 49,000 new cases

Thank you, bunker Boy. Send the kids back to school.

Those numbers are staggering, and terribly depressing. What could have been....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: buckchuckler on August 03, 2020, 09:26:23 PM

Quote from: Jockey on August 03, 2020, 09:05:30 PM

Today’s tally

France - 0 new cases
Spain - 0 new cases
US - 49,000 new cases

Thank you, bunker Boy. Send the kids back to school.

Those countries had their big outbreaks sooner.  I'm sure that's where we will be in 2 week or so...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: buckchuckler on August 03, 2020, 09:27:26 PM

Quote from: Jockey on August 03, 2020, 06:45:56 PM

In a PC world, it’s not even allowable to mention how terrible that obesity is for one’s health.

We can’t offend people.

Cmon man.  Body positive.  No problem at all with 300LBs.  Well, the only problem is that is too slender. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on August 03, 2020, 10:45:16 PM

Quote from: buckchuckler on August 03, 2020, 09:27:26 PM

Cmon man.  Body positive.  No problem at all with 300LBs.  Well, the only problem is that is too slender.

“Weight is not a good indicator of health” is my favorite. While it can certainly be true within reason, it’s too often used as an absurd defense for people that are SIGNIFICANTLY overweight

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on August 04, 2020, 01:03:55 AM

Spain had 3,000+ cases Monday,  and France had like 600. They didn’t have zero cases, just to be accurate.
But it is hard to look at that and wonder where we might have been

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 04, 2020, 03:04:09 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on August 03, 2020, 04:45:28 PM

SHEESH that’s a hot take. The US has handled this poorly but nothing you could base the “decline” of the US vs other Western nations (education, life span, infant mortality, per capita GDP, etc...) will be long term seismically shifted in ways that didn’t affect other nations. This is a “rah rah US NUMBA 1” objection as much as pointing out how quickly people make incorrect long term assessments based on short term situations.

I think the statement was a little hyperbolic, but the analogy pointed out in in the article is a good one.  The virus is like water.  It enters every crack relentlessly, and frankly we have been too busy prettying up our house that we haven't paid attention to its foundation.  And the virus is showing why this is a problem.

**We don't value science enough to trust it.  The anti-intellectuals on one side are balanced out by the sometimes haughty intellectualism on the other.

**We have spent too long buying into conspiracy theories.

**We have devalued the importance of a strong, efficient federal bureaucracy by starving it of resources and labelling its members as grifters.

**We have allowed the political discourse to degrade completely.  I mean, we have a President who most people realize is an immoral, self-dealing liar, but people still like him because he "owns the libs."  But "the libs" aren't exactly engaging in helpful discourse either by never ackowledging that some of the policies they oppose have actually worked.  IOW, we care more about winning than anything.

**We don't love our neighbor as ourselves.

So now our basement is flooded.  Are we going to spend the time and money it will take to fix the above problems?  I mean, it will take decades to do so.  Or are we going to keep working on the house and ignoring the problem.  Because one day the house will collapse.

We will get through the pandemic.  But I doubt we will learn lessons from it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on August 04, 2020, 08:22:48 AM

Ok I just reread you meant deaths -it was late and I couldn’t sleep. Brain fog.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on August 04, 2020, 08:25:23 AM

Hoo boy ... watch the video

@axios: .@jonathanvswan: “Oh, you’re doing death as a proportion of cases. I’m talking about death as a proportion of population. That’s where the U.S. is really bad. Much worse than South Korea, Germany, etc.”

@realdonaldtrump: “You can’t do that.”

Swan: “Why can’t I do that?” https://twitter.com/axios/status/1290497186489348096/video/1

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on August 04, 2020, 08:28:34 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on August 04, 2020, 08:25:23 AM

Hoo boy ... watch the video

@axios: .@jonathanvswan: “Oh, you’re doing death as a proportion of cases. I’m talking about death as a proportion of population. That’s where the U.S. is really bad. Much worse than South Korea, Germany, etc.”

@realdonaldtrump: “You can’t do that.”

Swan: “Why can’t I do that?” https://twitter.com/axios/status/1290497186489348096/video/1

If you watch that interview, you will realize that we are so screwed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 04, 2020, 08:29:31 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on August 04, 2020, 08:28:34 AM

If you watch that interview, you will realize that we are so screwed.

It's really disheartening.  Congress needs to start acting.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on August 04, 2020, 09:27:10 AM

"We're better than the world."

Nice.

And people worry about "Sleepy Joe's" mental capacity.  ::)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Lens on August 04, 2020, 09:41:24 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 04, 2020, 08:29:31 AM

It's really disheartening.  Congress needs to start acting.

I am surprised that Pence hasn't rallied GOP Senators, telling them: I can both keep the economy on track and portray a sense of humility / concern over the virus; Impeach POTUS and I can deliver November.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Babybluejeans on August 04, 2020, 09:52:59 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on August 03, 2020, 04:45:28 PM

SHEESH that’s a hot take. The US has handled this poorly but nothing you could base the “decline” of the US vs other Western nations (education, life span, infant mortality, per capita GDP, etc...) will be long term seismically shifted in ways that didn’t affect other nations. This is a “rah rah US NUMBA 1” objection as much as pointing out how quickly people make incorrect long term assessments based on short term

Thing is it’s not a short term conclusion. We’ve been on the way down for a while now. People who cling to the notion of “American exceptionalism” (not accusing you of that btw) can do so only by ignoring that we’ve been long passed in nearly every major metric—including those you mentioned. The pandemic didn’t cause the decline, but it will mark its completion.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on August 04, 2020, 09:55:15 AM

Quote from: Babybluejeans on August 04, 2020, 09:52:59 AM

Thing is it’s not a short term conclusion. We’ve been on the way down for a while now. People who cling to the notion of “American exceptionalism” (not accusing you of that btw) can do so only by ignoring that we’ve been long passed in nearly every major metric—including those you mentioned. The pandemic didn’t cause the decline, but it will mark its completion.

Wow you're just going to ignore obesity?! Murica!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 04, 2020, 09:55:49 AM

I don't think Trump is completely wrong here.  We do a good job with people when they are sick.  But that really is about the only good thing you can say about our response because too many are getting sick.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on August 04, 2020, 09:56:33 AM

Quote from: The Lens on August 04, 2020, 09:41:24 AM

I am surprised that Pence hasn't rallied GOP Senators, telling them: I can both keep the economy on track and portray a sense of humility / concern over the virus; Impeach POTUS and I can deliver November.   

Too late for that now.  I wonder if Trump had been impeached in January how much better Republicans would be looking right now.  The impeachment process would have bled into the start of the virus so Democrats could been blamed for the poor response at the start.  I think Pence would have taken the virus more seriously and thus less deaths and less of an economic hit.

I think Pence-Biden on that scenario would be probably a 50-50 poll at this point.  Plus conservatives would be looking better in other races as well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on August 04, 2020, 10:05:20 AM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on August 04, 2020, 09:56:33 AM

Too late for that now.  I wonder if Trump had been impeached in January how much better Republicans would be looking right now.  The impeachment process would have bled into the start of the virus so Democrats could been blamed for the poor response at the start.  I think Pence would have taken the virus more seriously and thus less deaths and less of an economic hit.

I think Pence-Biden on that scenario would be probably a 50-50 poll at this point.  Plus conservatives would be looking better in other races as well.

Wow great point

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 04, 2020, 10:08:55 AM

Quote from: The Lens on August 04, 2020, 09:41:24 AM

I am surprised that Pence hasn't rallied GOP Senators, telling them: I can both keep the economy on track and portray a sense of humility / concern over the virus; Impeach POTUS and I can deliver November.   

I meant legislating to force our agencies to act/pulling the levers of government.  I think any other action would just further distract and put us in worse shape with the pandemic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on August 04, 2020, 10:50:46 AM

If you want to watch a Trump voter's head explode, tell them COVID is clearly God's punishment of America for not removing Trump from office.    Then start the timer to see how long it is until they stop yelling at you.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on August 04, 2020, 11:05:28 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 04, 2020, 09:55:49 AM

I don't think Trump is completely wrong here.  We do a good job with people when they are sick.  But that really is about the only good thing you can say about our response because too many are getting sick.

You really can't make a conclusion there one way or the other. We do not know the number of cases, or the number of deaths in any country right now. So knowing an accurate case/fatality ratio is impossible, including in the US.

We can compare "excess deaths" per capita. There, we are doing terrible. So that means either we are doing a poor job in mitigating spread (more cases than the rest of the world), or a poor job treating it.

It's likely a mixture of both. We do a great job in treating some, but the inequities in the health care system are an embarrassment.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 04, 2020, 11:36:26 AM

Quote from: forgetful on August 04, 2020, 11:05:28 AM

You really can't make a conclusion there one way or the other. We do not know the number of cases, or the number of deaths in any country right now. So knowing an accurate case/fatality ratio is impossible, including in the US.

We can compare "excess deaths" per capita. There, we are doing terrible. So that means either we are doing a poor job in mitigating spread (more cases than the rest of the world), or a poor job treating it.

It's likely a mixture of both. We do a great job in treating some, but the inequities in the health care system are an embarrassment.

I'm sure you are more right than I am.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: buckchuckler on August 04, 2020, 11:39:24 AM

nm

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on August 04, 2020, 11:42:34 AM

I don't know whose cheese that is.   I just know it is nacho cheese.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on August 04, 2020, 12:15:13 PM

Quote from: The Lens on August 04, 2020, 09:41:24 AM

I am surprised that Pence hasn't rallied GOP Senators, telling them: I can both keep the economy on track and portray a sense of humility / concern over the virus; Impeach POTUS and I can deliver November.   

I'm not.  There is nothing inspiring about Mike Pence. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Lens on August 04, 2020, 12:25:18 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on August 04, 2020, 12:15:13 PM

I'm not.  There is nothing inspiring about Mike Pence.

My original post said "if Pence had any ambition"  I edited bc I thought that might be too political.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 04, 2020, 12:28:49 PM

Quote from: The Lens on August 04, 2020, 12:25:18 PM

My original post said "if Pence had any ambition"  I edited bc I thought that might be too political.

You think alligning yourselft against Trump is a good career move in today's Republican party?  He is plenty ambitious.  The best way to get there is be the loyal soldier.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 04, 2020, 12:29:41 PM

Interesting article by NYT on immune response. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/04/health/coronavirus-immune-system.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/04/health/coronavirus-immune-system.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on August 04, 2020, 07:51:09 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on August 04, 2020, 08:25:23 AM

Hoo boy ... watch the video

@axios: .@jonathanvswan: “Oh, you’re doing death as a proportion of cases. I’m talking about death as a proportion of population. That’s where the U.S. is really bad. Much worse than South Korea, Germany, etc.”

@realdonaldtrump: “You can’t do that.”

Swan: “Why can’t I do that?” https://twitter.com/axios/status/1290497186489348096/video/1

It's not that we learned that he's breathtakingly stupid enough to say the things he said... It's that he's stupid enough to have agreed to that interview to say the things he said. Unless this is a coup from within, Trump should be on his next campaign manager already.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 04, 2020, 08:40:00 PM

More info on cheap tests that can detect when you have high amounts of virus present and the barriers. 

https://harvardmagazine.com/2020/08/covid-19-test-for-public-health (https://harvardmagazine.com/2020/08/covid-19-test-for-public-health)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Babybluejeans on August 04, 2020, 08:43:49 PM

Quote from: GB Warrior on August 04, 2020, 07:51:09 PM

It's not that we learned that he's breathtakingly stupid enough to say the things he said... It's that he's stupid enough to have agreed to that interview to say the things he said. Unless this is a coup from within, Trump should be on his next campaign manager already.

Adding the Veep credits makes it so perfect. https://mobile.twitter.com/brendanmc84/status/1290553066001965056

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 04, 2020, 09:06:15 PM

Quote from: Babybluejeans on August 04, 2020, 08:43:49 PM

Adding the Veep credits makes it so perfect. https://mobile.twitter.com/brendanmc84/status/1290553066001965056

Priceless.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on August 04, 2020, 11:05:09 PM

Somehow better https://twitter.com/Darren_Dutton/status/1290578605991440384?s=19 (https://twitter.com/Darren_Dutton/status/1290578605991440384?s=19)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 05, 2020, 06:01:44 AM

It’s about time the states move on. Seems like good leadership from Hogan to cobble together a consortium

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-04/governors-form-bipartisan-pact-to-buy-millions-of-virus-tests (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-04/governors-form-bipartisan-pact-to-buy-millions-of-virus-tests)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on August 05, 2020, 08:53:33 AM

Quote from: GB Warrior on August 04, 2020, 07:51:09 PM

It's that he's stupid enough to have agreed to that interview to say the things he said.

Nah.  I don't think Trump's level of discourse was any different with Swan than any of the other interviews he's done.   

Trump wants interviewers who sound contemptuous, and Swan delivered.   He lost zero votes, his base walks away thinking the media is the enemy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on August 05, 2020, 08:56:59 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on August 05, 2020, 08:53:33 AM

Nah.  I don't think Trump's level of discourse was any different with Swan than any of the other interviews he's done.   

Trump wants interviewers who sound contemptuous, and Swan delivered.   He lost zero votes, his base walks away thinking the media is the enemy.

It helps that he's foreign so it comes off as a foreign person unfairly attacking trump and what America stands for.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 05, 2020, 08:59:29 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on August 05, 2020, 08:53:33 AM

Nah.  I don't think Trump's level of discourse was any different with Swan than any of the other interviews he's done.   

Trump wants interviewers who sound contemptuous, and Swan delivered.   He lost zero votes, his base walks away thinking the media is the enemy.

I'm agree with your conclusion, but this isn't 3D chess.  35% doesnt isn't who you need to convince you are on this -- IMO it hurt him with those not in that group that want a plan to control the virus.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Lens on August 05, 2020, 09:09:46 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 05, 2020, 08:59:29 AM

I'm agree with your conclusion, but this isn't 3D chess.  35% doesnt isn't who you need to convince you are on this -- IMO it hurt him with those not in that group that want a plan to control the virus.

It's his biggest political flaw:  not recognizing that he owns the 35% and then working to attract another 16%.  He's so programmed to appease those who love him unconditionally that he's unwilling to try and find middle ground with right leaning centrists. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 05, 2020, 11:29:22 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on August 05, 2020, 08:53:33 AM

Nah.  I don't think Trump's level of discourse was any different with Swan than any of the other interviews he's done.   

Trump wants interviewers who sound contemptuous, and Swan delivered.   He lost zero votes, his base walks away thinking the media is the enemy.

There supposedly are undecided voters. Not sure what they are waiting for, what they don't understand about these two candidates who have been highly public figures for decades and decades, but supposedly there are still votes to be had.

And if there are votes to be had, maybe a couple of them were moved by: "They are dying. That's true. It is what it is"?

Not sure why his people keep putting him in position to embarrass himself, especially when it comes to the pandemic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on August 05, 2020, 01:11:55 PM

Quote from: MU82 on August 05, 2020, 11:29:22 AM

There supposedly are undecided voters. Not sure what they are waiting for, what they don't understand about these two candidates who have been highly public figures for decades and decades, but supposedly there are still votes to be had.

And if there are votes to be had, maybe a couple of them were moved by: "They are dying. That's true. It is what it is"?

Not sure why his people keep putting him in position to embarrass himself, especially when it comes to the pandemic.

Maybe it's so he could sway them with his poetic remembrances of John Lewis

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 05, 2020, 10:38:28 PM

Quote from: GB Warrior on August 05, 2020, 01:11:55 PM

Maybe it's so he could sway them with his poetic remembrances of John Lewis

Made me chuckle.

Limbaugh yesterday said he has to stop doing these interviews, he has nothing to gain from them.

\\

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 06, 2020, 08:12:47 AM

Noah's Ark shut down this past weekend due to two employees testing positive, and has decided to just shut down for the year.

Oh, and their general manager was fired for being...well...you can guess.

https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/noahs-ark-gm-fired-following-e-mail-about-phantom-china-virus

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on August 06, 2020, 08:21:43 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 06, 2020, 08:12:47 AM

Noah's Ark shut down this past weekend due to two employees testing positive, and has decided to just shut down for the year.

Oh, and their general manager was fired for being...well...you can guess.

https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/noahs-ark-gm-fired-following-e-mail-about-phantom-china-virus

I assume I'm not the only one to see the irony. Noah's Ark unable to escape the flood....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 06, 2020, 09:39:56 AM

Voters in Tennessee who fear Corona have two choices after ruling by Tennessee Supreme Court.

Vote in person or don’t vote.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 06, 2020, 11:21:57 AM

Not new per-se but some proof on what has been speculated (asymptomatic has high viral loads without symptoms)

 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/06/health/coronavirus-asymptomatic-transmission.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/06/health/coronavirus-asymptomatic-transmission.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 06, 2020, 11:22:53 AM

Quote from: GB Warrior on August 05, 2020, 01:11:55 PM

Maybe it's so he could sway them with his poetic remembrances of John Lewis

The only thing Trump knows is that Lewis didn't come to his inauguration. The man is the world's greatest at holding petty grudges:

***
Swan:  John Lewis is lying in state in the U.S. Capitol. How do you think history will remember John Lewis?

Trump: I don’t know. I really don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know John Lewis. He chose not to come to my inauguration. He chose… I never met John Lewis, actually, I don’t believe.

Swan: Do you find him impressive?

Trump: I can’t say one or the other. I find a lot of people impressive. I find many people not impressive. But no, but I didn’t go-

Swan: Do you find his story impressive?

Trump: He didn’t come to my inauguration. He didn’t come to my State of the Union speeches, and that’s okay. That’s his right.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 06, 2020, 11:31:28 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 06, 2020, 11:22:53 AM

The only thing Trump knows is that Lewis didn't come to his inauguration. The man is the world's greatest at holding petty grudges...

This has nothing to do with the Coronavirus - take it somewhere else.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 06, 2020, 11:38:16 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 06, 2020, 11:31:28 AM

This has nothing to do with the Coronavirus - take it somewhere else.

Quite true

It does, however, give an example of how he treats others - including US citizens who are in danger of catching Covid. He doesn’t care if you catch it or if I catch it. Furthermore he will not take the necessary steps to protect us.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 06, 2020, 11:47:56 AM

Quote from: Jockey on August 06, 2020, 11:38:16 AM

Quite true

It does, however, give an example of how he treats others - including US citizens who are in danger of catching Covid. He doesn’t care if you catch it or if I catch it. Furthermore he will not take the necessary steps to protect us.

If we are interpreting posts based on things that weren't said by the poster, I can take a shot too.

Your post = "I want to talk about my dislike for the president everywhere"

Well that wasn't as satisfying as I expected.  So why dont we get back to COVID instead.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on August 06, 2020, 11:52:10 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 06, 2020, 08:12:47 AM

Noah's Ark shut down this past weekend due to two employees testing positive, and has decided to just shut down for the year.

Oh, and their general manager was fired for being...well...you can guess.

https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/noahs-ark-gm-fired-following-e-mail-about-phantom-china-virus

Given that seemingly 80% of the guests at Noah’s Ark are either overweight or chain smokers, aka significant risk factors, this is probably wise

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 06, 2020, 11:57:56 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on August 06, 2020, 11:52:10 AM

Given that seemingly 80% of the guests at Noah’s Ark are either overweight or chain smokers, aka significant risk factors, this is probably wise

You just gave me an investment idea - Short Sizzler & Old Country Buffet

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 06, 2020, 12:12:26 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 06, 2020, 11:47:56 AM

If we are interpreting posts based on things that weren't said by the poster, I can take a shot too.

Your post = "I want to talk about my dislike for the president everywhere"

Well that wasn't as satisfying as I expected.  So why dont we get back to COVID instead.

Good idea.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 06, 2020, 01:00:26 PM

Ohio governor Mike DeWine tests positive just before he was supposed to meet with the emperor.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/06/world/coronavirus-covid-19.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20200806&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=35439&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

He had just held a news conference begging Ohioans to respect how insidious the coronavirus is, warning that the people who are most at risk are often loved ones.

In one case, a churchgoer who attended a service while he was sick helped spread the virus to 91 other people spanning five counties. In another, a son brushed off symptoms while holding a vigil for his dying father, and five relatives later tested positive. In another case, at least 15 people were sickened after a man with symptoms attended his brother’s wedding. The bride and groom were among those who fell ill.

“Just because it’s your family, just because it’s your friends, they could still be carrying the virus,” DeWine said Tuesday. “Choosing to not gather for parties or barbecues might feel like you’re not being friendly, but it really is a sign of friendship.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on August 06, 2020, 07:56:49 PM

For those not following the Michigan thread, my department currently has 5 members who have tested positive and 22 in quarantine.    Stemming from a wedding reception for one of our firefighters.

I thought it was impossible for me to hold the COVID deniers in more contempt than I did 48 hours ago.  I was wrong.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on August 06, 2020, 09:06:31 PM

Quote from: tower912 on August 06, 2020, 07:56:49 PM

For those not following the Michigan thread, my department currently has 5 members who have tested positive and 22 in quarantine.    Stemming from a wedding reception for one of our firefighters.

I thought it was impossible for me to hold the COVID deniers in more contempt than I did 48 hours ago.  I was wrong.

That is simply mind-boggling. People who are supposed to be keeping others safe are spreading risk for everyone.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 06, 2020, 10:37:24 PM

Verified American COVID-19 deaths hit 160K today.

The rate had been going down for months -- from 10K every 5 days into mid-May, to 10K every 15 days into early-July, when 130K was reached.

But it then took 12 days to go from 130K to 140K ... 11 days to go from 140K to 150K ... and now only 8 days to go from 150K to 160K.

Sucks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 07, 2020, 07:41:14 AM

Quote from: MU82 on August 06, 2020, 01:00:26 PM

Ohio governor Mike DeWine tests positive just before he was supposed to meet with the emperor.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/06/world/coronavirus-covid-19.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20200806&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=35439&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

He had just held a news conference begging Ohioans to respect how insidious the coronavirus is, warning that the people who are most at risk are often loved ones.

In one case, a churchgoer who attended a service while he was sick helped spread the virus to 91 other people spanning five counties. In another, a son brushed off symptoms while holding a vigil for his dying father, and five relatives later tested positive. In another case, at least 15 people were sickened after a man with symptoms attended his brother’s wedding. The bride and groom were among those who fell ill.

“Just because it’s your family, just because it’s your friends, they could still be carrying the virus,” DeWine said Tuesday. “Choosing to not gather for parties or barbecues might feel like you’re not being friendly, but it really is a sign of friendship.”

Late last night he tested negative.  He will be retested Saturday.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on August 07, 2020, 07:48:48 AM

Going for the best 2 out of 3.   Or the old NBA 3 to make 2.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 07, 2020, 08:02:35 AM

Quote from: tower912 on August 06, 2020, 07:56:49 PM

For those not following the Michigan thread, my department currently has 5 members who have tested positive and 22 in quarantine.    Stemming from a wedding reception for one of our firefighters.

I thought it was impossible for me to hold the COVID deniers in more contempt than I did 48 hours ago.  I was wrong.

So what happens when there is an emergency?  How are you healthy folks supposed to pick up the slack of that many missing fire fighters?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on August 07, 2020, 08:23:18 AM

There are plans in place that are about to be implemented.    Basically, we are going to completely rearrange our work schedule and consolidate 3 shifts into 2.       Traditionally, we work 24 hours, off 24 hours, work 24 hours, off 24 hours, work 24 hours, off 96 hours.    Starting in the next few days, we are going to work 48 straight, be off for 48.   

This will probably continue until the quarantined are able to return and we have no new cases.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 07, 2020, 08:27:54 AM

Quote from: tower912 on August 07, 2020, 08:23:18 AM

There are plans in place that are about to be implemented.    Basically, we are going to completely rearrange our work schedule and consolidate 3 shifts into 2.       Traditionally, we work 24 hours, off 24 hours, work 24 hours, off 24 hours, work 24 hours, off 96 hours.    Starting in the next few days, we are going to work 48 straight, be off for 48.   

This will probably continue until the quarantined are able to return and we have no new cases.   

I'm not going to get into why I think this is a terrible idea for a safety sensitive job... but damn, man, that's awful.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on August 07, 2020, 08:36:57 AM

Hards, there is no argument that you can make that hasn't already been beat to death within our department.      The bottom line, though, is that the calls are still coming in, the fires are still burning.    Our department has been understaffed for 15 years.    And when I say 'understaffed', we are the smallest department for a city our size in the country.    Now, there are some exurbs with nothing but subdivisions and strip malls that have similar populations and slightly smaller departments.    But for an actual 'city', with neighborhoods and industry all intermingled, we are the smallest.   

And our professionalism means that we are going to suck it up and find a way.    It is what we do.   

And let this be a cautionary tale.    The virus is relentless.    All it takes is a little carelessness and everything gets rocked.   Wear your masks.   Wash your hands.    Socially distance. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Babybluejeans on August 07, 2020, 08:38:49 AM

Looks like I’m not the only one who thinks the pandemic marks the end of the US empire.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/political-commentary/covid-19-end-of-american-era-wade-davis-1038206/

For more than two centuries, reported the Irish Times, “the United States has stirred a very wide range of feelings in the rest of the world: love and hatred, fear and hope, envy and contempt, awe and anger. But there is one emotion that has never been directed towards the U.S. until now: pity.” As American doctors and nurses eagerly awaited emergency airlifts of basic supplies from China, the hinge of history opened to the Asian century.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on August 07, 2020, 08:51:30 AM

Nm

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 07, 2020, 08:56:35 AM

Politicians are a reflection of people and their problems.  Politics won’t be a driver of the downfall of any government.   Government not addressing people’s problems will.  Another way of saying the political is a symptom not the disease


Which reminds me.  This is the covid thread.  The r’s and d’s thread is somewhere else. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 07, 2020, 08:57:59 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on August 07, 2020, 07:41:14 AM

Late last night he tested negative.  He will be retested Saturday.

I am glad DeWine tested negative. It would appear he has done everything right as far as following guidelines for himself and those around him.

Unfortunately, the first reaction of many was: "See! Masks don't work." But now he has tested negative twice, so are these same people saying, "Um ... never mind"? Of course, even if he didn't test negative, it was idiotic to say masks don't work.

My biggest concern coming out of all this is that false readings seem to happen too often on these quick-results tests. Bad tests are worse than no tests.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on August 07, 2020, 09:48:26 AM

Quote from: MU82 on August 07, 2020, 08:57:59 AM

I am glad DeWine tested negative. It would appear he has done everything right as far as following guidelines for himself and those around him.

Unfortunately, the first reaction of many was: "See! Masks don't work." But now he has tested negative twice, so are these same people saying, "Um ... never mind"? Of course, even if he didn't test negative, it was idiotic to say masks don't work.

My biggest concern coming out of all this is that false readings seem to happen too often on these quick-results tests. Bad tests are worse than no tests.

Now they are just saying testing doesn't mean anything.  :-[

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 07, 2020, 09:51:05 AM

Quote from: MU82 on August 07, 2020, 08:57:59 AM

My biggest concern coming out of all this is that false readings seem to happen too often on these quick-results tests. Bad tests are worse than no tests.

This is the least of our problems in testing IMO.  Our biggest problem is testing is not actionable because of lead times.  At least with the quick test, someone can take an action (isolate and get the more accurate test).

By the way Medical Twitter is scratching their heads a bit on the false neg.  Apparently he took the quick antigen test, which is supposed to be really accurate.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 07, 2020, 10:17:38 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 07, 2020, 09:51:05 AM

This is the least of our problems in testing IMO.  Our biggest problem is testing is not actionable because of lead times.  At least with the quick test, someone can take an action (isolate and get the more accurate test).

By the way Medical Twitter is scratching their heads a bit on the false neg.  Apparently he took the quick antigen test, which is supposed to be really accurate.

I defer to your knowledge on the science. Thanks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 07, 2020, 10:21:05 AM

Quote from: MU82 on August 07, 2020, 10:17:38 AM

I defer to your knowledge on the science. Thanks.

You probably shouldnt.  I just stayed at a Holiday Inn last night and read some tweets.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 07, 2020, 10:34:56 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 07, 2020, 10:21:05 AM

You probably shouldnt.  I just stayed at a Holiday Inn last night and read some tweets.

That's good enough for most people.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on August 07, 2020, 10:55:03 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 07, 2020, 09:51:05 AM

This is the least of our problems in testing IMO.  Our biggest problem is testing is not actionable because of lead times.  At least with the quick test, someone can take an action (isolate and get the more accurate test).

By the way Medical Twitter is scratching their heads a bit on the false neg.  Apparently he took the quick antigen test, which is supposed to be really accurate.

I'm not sure if you mistyped here, but the quick antigen tests are typically less accurate. They do give fast results and are easy to perform though. His negative was on the PCR test, which is more accurate.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 07, 2020, 11:17:49 AM

Quote from: forgetful on August 07, 2020, 10:55:03 AM

I'm not sure if you mistyped here, but the quick antigen tests are typically less accurate. They do give fast results and are easy to perform though. His negative was on the PCR test, which is more accurate.

I have read the same.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 07, 2020, 11:49:20 AM

Quote from: forgetful on August 07, 2020, 10:55:03 AM

I'm not sure if you mistyped here, but the quick antigen tests are typically less accurate. They do give fast results and are easy to perform though. His negative was on the PCR test, which is more accurate.

I wasn’t commenting on the compare to the type of test.  Just meant in general and was based on the tweet below from an individual who is usually pretty reliable.  Hopefully my response to 82 put it in the context I meant it. 

https://twitter.com/ashishkjha/status/1291571263916449795?s=21 (https://twitter.com/ashishkjha/status/1291571263916449795?s=21)

I should have stopped after my first point anyway!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on August 07, 2020, 12:10:43 PM

Moderna, which received a billion dollars from the government, is said to price its vaccine between $32-$37. This is after Pfizer recently received much criticism for saying they would price theirs at $19.50.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/510725-moderna-to-charge-32-to-37-a-dose-for-its-covid-vaccine?amp&__twitter_impression=true

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on August 07, 2020, 12:23:34 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 07, 2020, 11:49:20 AM

I wasn’t commenting on the compare to the type of test.  Just meant in general and was based on the tweet below from an individual who is usually pretty reliable.  Hopefully my response to 82 put it in the context I meant it. 

https://twitter.com/ashishkjha/status/1291571263916449795?s=21 (https://twitter.com/ashishkjha/status/1291571263916449795?s=21)

I should have stopped after my first point anyway!

You are good. I read your statement with the "false negative" words in it. Antigen test usually have a high rate of false negatives. The issue here is false positives. Many of these antigen tests claim 100% specificity, which means that they shouldn't generate false positives.

The problem is what samples they challenged the test against. If there are antigens that will cross react, that are not in your "negative decoys," then you will be 100% specific against that test set, but may not be 100% specific across the general public. I believe their test set is around 150-200 "negative" samples. Although fairly large there is still a reasonably high chance that they are missing non-specific antigens in that data set.

I think what you are seeing is some antigen and antibody tests now being able to claim 100% specificity, because they are designed around the known FDA test set, which may not be universally representative. I'd guess most of these are really around 97+% specific.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 07, 2020, 02:09:33 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on August 07, 2020, 12:10:43 PM

Moderna, which received a billion dollars from the government, is said to price its vaccine between $32-$37. This is after Pfizer recently received much criticism for saying they would price theirs at $19.50.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/510725-moderna-to-charge-32-to-37-a-dose-for-its-covid-vaccine?amp&__twitter_impression=true

So, once again, minorities and the poor will get a sharp stick in the eye.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on August 07, 2020, 05:17:47 PM

And here come the bikers…

Harleys everywhere, masks nowhere: Sturgis draws thousands

https://apnews.com/fa074079157ad9a3683445b291daaf39

Many who rode their bikes into Sturgis on Friday expressed defiance at the rules and restrictions that have marked life in many locales during the pandemic. People rode from across the country to a state that offered a reprieve from coronavirus restrictions, as South Dakota has no special limits on indoor crowds, no mask mandates and a governor who is eager to welcome visitors and the money they bring.

“Screw COVID,” read the design on one T-shirt being hawked. “I went to Sturgis.”

Bikers rumbled past hundreds of tents filled with motorcycle gear, T-shirts and food. Harley Davidson motorcycles were everywhere but masks were almost nowhere to be seen, with an Associated Press reporter counting fewer than 10 in a crowd of thousands over a period of several hours.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 07, 2020, 05:32:33 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on August 07, 2020, 05:17:47 PM

And here come the bikers…

Harleys everywhere, masks nowhere: Sturgis draws thousands

https://apnews.com/fa074079157ad9a3683445b291daaf39

Many who rode their bikes into Sturgis on Friday expressed defiance at the rules and restrictions that have marked life in many locales during the pandemic. People rode from across the country to a state that offered a reprieve from coronavirus restrictions, as South Dakota has no special limits on indoor crowds, no mask mandates and a governor who is eager to welcome visitors and the money they bring.

“Screw COVID,” read the design on one T-shirt being hawked. “I went to Sturgis.”

Bikers rumbled past hundreds of tents filled with motorcycle gear, T-shirts and food. Harley Davidson motorcycles were everywhere but masks were almost nowhere to be seen, with an Associated Press reporter counting fewer than 10 in a crowd of thousands over a period of several hours.

As long as we don't have to pretend to care when they die, I'm OK with this.

I'm sure all those old, overweight Harley guys have nothing to worry about anyway.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on August 07, 2020, 06:06:39 PM

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53665008

Asymptomatic people have the same virus load as symptomatic ones.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on August 07, 2020, 07:43:44 PM

Quote from: Jockey on August 07, 2020, 05:32:33 PM

As long as we don't have to pretend to care when they die, I'm OK with this.

I'm sure all those old, overweight Harley guys have nothing to worry about anyway.

I'm told many dentists own Harley's and love going to Sturgis.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on August 07, 2020, 09:00:16 PM

Quote from: Jockey on August 07, 2020, 02:09:33 PM

So, once again, minorities and the poor will get a sharp stick in the eye.

CEO of Moderna called the price a “Gift”.....in related news, the CEO of Moderna cashed in 72,000 shares for $5 million this past month.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 08, 2020, 08:22:57 AM

I thought this was good as it at speaks of the goal and the big idea (if do this, we can do this).  While specifics are thin, it was refreshing to read something along these lines.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1286457920301416 (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1286457920301416)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on August 08, 2020, 08:29:57 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on August 07, 2020, 07:43:44 PM

I'm told many dentists own Harley's and love going to Sturgis.

It’s a sector of society that could use a good washing anyway.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 08, 2020, 09:11:22 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on August 07, 2020, 07:43:44 PM

I'm told many dentists own Harley's and love going to Sturgis.

Hopefully they skipped this year... there should be plenty of used Harleys available in the next couple of months.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 08, 2020, 10:32:16 AM

Quote from: Jockey on August 07, 2020, 05:32:33 PM

As long as we don't have to pretend to care when they die, I'm OK with this.

I'm sure all those old, overweight Harley guys have nothing to worry about anyway.

If they kept it to themselves, sure. But they are going to get back on their bikes and spread it far and wide.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 08, 2020, 11:07:41 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 08, 2020, 10:32:16 AM

If they kept it to themselves, sure. But they are going to get back on their bikes and spread it far and wide.

Yes. The fact that they don't care a bit who they spread it to is why I don't care what happens to them. I have great sympathy for those they will infect. There are 10s of millions of people like this - doesn't bode well for the fall.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 08, 2020, 01:34:19 PM

https://twitter.com/mattscalici/status/1292165258992332800?s=21

“We are now entering the phase of this discourse where the people who turned out to be horrifically, embarrassingly wrong now claim that the people who were right all along saying “I told you so” are the REAL problem.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on August 08, 2020, 03:23:55 PM

"Children Can Get Severe COVID-19, CDC Says — Especially Black And Hispanic Children"

https://www.npr.org/2020/08/08/900494834/children-can-get-severe-covid-19-cdc-says-especially-black-and-hispanic-children?utm_medium=social&utm_term=nprnews&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=npr

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on August 09, 2020, 07:57:19 AM

Long term health problems with COVID-19:

https://pulitzercenter.org/reporting/brain-fog-heart-damage-covid-19s-lingering-problems-alarm-scientists?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=BrainFog

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on August 09, 2020, 09:21:48 AM

Department update:. Of the 40 in quarantine, 36 tested negative and have returned to work.  3 are still awaiting for results.  1 yesterday positive, bringing our total to 8. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on August 09, 2020, 01:04:16 PM

Quote from: tower912 on August 09, 2020, 09:21:48 AM

Department update:. Of the 40 in quarantine, 36 tested negative and have returned to work.  3 are still awaiting for results.  1 yesterday positive, bringing our total to 8. 

Seems quick with an incubation period of 5-14 days. Not like you can keep everyone on those crazy long shifts, though, just to be super sure. Glad most the guys are alright so far.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 11, 2020, 07:54:23 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on August 08, 2020, 03:23:55 PM

"Children Can Get Severe COVID-19, CDC Says — Especially Black And Hispanic Children"

https://www.npr.org/2020/08/08/900494834/children-can-get-severe-covid-19-cdc-says-especially-black-and-hispanic-children?utm_medium=social&utm_term=nprnews&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=npr

Yep. From the NYT:

In the last two weeks of July, nearly 100,000 children in the United States tested positive for the coronavirus, according to data from the American Academy of Pediatrics and the Children’s Hospital Association.

The speed and the scale of the infections — dozens of countries have not yet recorded 100,000 cases in total — further complicate the already daunting issue of reopening schools. In Georgia, Indiana and other states, some schools that reopened have already closed down again after new outbreaks emerged.

Recent research suggests that children can carry at least as much of the virus in their noses and throats as adults do, even if they have only mild or moderate symptoms. That has prompted fears that students who become ill at school may spread the virus to their older relatives.

But it’s not just older people who are at risk — in some rare cases, a child’s health can be severely affected. Nearly 600 young people in the U.S., from infants to 20 year olds, have developed an inflammatory syndrome linked to Covid-19, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reports. Most of the children required intensive care.

“I fear that there has been this sense that kids just won’t get infected or don’t get infected in the same way as adults and that, therefore, they’re almost like a bubbled population,” Michael Osterholm, an infectious diseases expert at the University of Minnesota, told The Times in July.

“There will be transmission,” he said. “What we have to do is accept that now and include that in our plans.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 11, 2020, 11:36:48 AM

Idaho: The perfect home for chicos…

Idaho Lawmaker: "Listening To Experts Is An Elitist Approach" To Coronavirus Restrictions
https://www.boisestatepublicradio.org/post/idaho-lawmaker-listening-experts-elitist-approach-coronavirus-restrictions#stream/0

"Sen. Steven Thayn (R-Emmett) was among those who supported the measure. “We’re letting a few fearful people control the lives of those of us who are not fearful,” Thayn said.

“Listening to experts to set policy is an elitist approach and I’m very fearful of an elitist approach,” he said. “I’m also fearful that it leads to totalitarianism, especially when you say, ‘Well. We’re doing it for the public good.’

A handful of legislators pushed back against the proposal – mostly Democrats.

“This isn’t sacrificing individual liberty,” said Rep. Steve Berch (D-West Boise). “This is balancing the governance process with protecting the larger community."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on August 11, 2020, 01:41:10 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 11, 2020, 11:36:48 AM

Idaho: The perfect home for chicos…

Idaho Lawmaker: "Listening To Experts Is An Elitist Approach" To Coronavirus Restrictions
https://www.boisestatepublicradio.org/post/idaho-lawmaker-listening-experts-elitist-approach-coronavirus-restrictions#stream/0

"Sen. Steven Thayn (R-Emmett) was among those who supported the measure. “We’re letting a few fearful people control the lives of those of us who are not fearful,” Thayn said.

“Listening to experts to set policy is an elitist approach and I’m very fearful of an elitist approach,” he said. “I’m also fearful that it leads to totalitarianism, especially when you say, ‘Well. We’re doing it for the public good.’

A handful of legislators pushed back against the proposal – mostly Democrats.

“This isn’t sacrificing individual liberty,” said Rep. Steve Berch (D-West Boise). “This is balancing the governance process with protecting the larger community."

I find it ironic that the far right fears 'elitists,' given that their leader once called the White House "a real dump."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2017/08/01/trump-thinks-white-house-real-dump/531212001/

I sense a disconnect from reality....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 11, 2020, 02:39:25 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 11, 2020, 11:36:48 AM

“Listening to experts to set policy is an elitist approach and I’m very fearful of an elitist approach,” he said. “I’m also fearful that it leads to totalitarianism, especially when you say, ‘Well. We’re doing it for the public good.’

And, republicans wonder why we think they are illiterate fools who don't believe in science. They've become so desperate that they are starting to say these crazy things in public out loud, rather than just when they are "brain"storming together.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on August 11, 2020, 03:07:51 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 11, 2020, 11:36:48 AM

Idaho: The perfect home for chicos…

Idaho Lawmaker: "Listening To Experts Is An Elitist Approach" To Coronavirus Restrictions
https://www.boisestatepublicradio.org/post/idaho-lawmaker-listening-experts-elitist-approach-coronavirus-restrictions#stream/0

"Sen. Steven Thayn (R-Emmett) was among those who supported the measure. “We’re letting a few fearful people control the lives of those of us who are not fearful,” Thayn said.

“Listening to experts to set policy is an elitist approach and I’m very fearful of an elitist approach,” he said. “I’m also fearful that it leads to totalitarianism, especially when you say, ‘Well. We’re doing it for the public good.’

A handful of legislators pushed back against the proposal – mostly Democrats.

“This isn’t sacrificing individual liberty,” said Rep. Steve Berch (D-West Boise). “This is balancing the governance process with protecting the larger community."

My crazy Great Uncle who splits time between Southern California, Arizona and a summer in a cabin in Emmett, Idaho.  It's a real place.
Yes, he is a RWNJ.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 13, 2020, 12:06:53 PM

 No real way to do this but I found it as an interesting read to compare and contrast the factors for 1918 and 2020 NYC pandemics. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/13/health/coronavirus-flu-new-york.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/13/health/coronavirus-flu-new-york.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on August 13, 2020, 03:32:41 PM

Dr. Fauci on U.S. coronavirus outbreak: ‘I’m not pleased with how things are going’

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/13/dr-fauci-on-us-coronavirus-outbreak-im-not-pleased-with-how-things-are-going.html

“We certainly are not where I hope we would be, we are in the middle of very serious historic pandemic,” he added.

The U.S. has the worst outbreak in the world with more than 5 million infections and at least 166,000 deaths as of Thursday, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. On Wednesday, the U.S. recorded more than 1,500 deaths caused by Covid-19, marking the deadliest day for the country since the end of May.

Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, has previously warned about a potential increase in Covid-19 cases brewing in states like Ohio, Tennessee, Kentucky and Indiana, which have reported an uptick in the so-called positivity rate, or the percentage of tests that are positive.

------------------

It appears that we are on the cusp of another increase in the midsection of the country....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 13, 2020, 05:56:55 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on August 13, 2020, 03:32:41 PM

Dr. Fauci on U.S. coronavirus outbreak: ‘I’m not pleased with how things are going’

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/13/dr-fauci-on-us-coronavirus-outbreak-im-not-pleased-with-how-things-are-going.html

“We certainly are not where I hope we would be, we are in the middle of very serious historic pandemic,” he added.

The U.S. has the worst outbreak in the world with more than 5 million infections and at least 166,000 deaths as of Thursday, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. On Wednesday, the U.S. recorded more than 1,500 deaths caused by Covid-19, marking the deadliest day for the country since the end of May.

Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, has previously warned about a potential increase in Covid-19 cases brewing in states like Ohio, Tennessee, Kentucky and Indiana, which have reported an uptick in the so-called positivity rate, or the percentage of tests that are positive.

------------------

It appears that we are on the cusp of another increase in the midsection of the country....

This is why trump has nothing to do with Fauci anymore. His imbecile son-in-law knows way more about pandemics.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on August 13, 2020, 10:01:02 PM

Luckily, we are testing way less, so cases should drop.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 14, 2020, 05:59:11 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on August 13, 2020, 10:01:02 PM

Luckily, we are testing way less, so cases should drop.

Yesterday was a record number of tests completed, quit making crap up.

https://covidtracking.com/data/us-daily

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 14, 2020, 06:20:05 AM

Quote from: MU82 on August 11, 2020, 07:54:23 AM

Yep. From the NYT:

In the last two weeks of July, nearly 100,000 children in the United States tested positive for the coronavirus, according to data from the American Academy of Pediatrics and the Children’s Hospital Association.

The speed and the scale of the infections — dozens of countries have not yet recorded 100,000 cases in total — further complicate the already daunting issue of reopening schools. In Georgia, Indiana and other states, some schools that reopened have already closed down again after new outbreaks emerged.

Recent research suggests that children can carry at least as much of the virus in their noses and throats as adults do, even if they have only mild or moderate symptoms. That has prompted fears that students who become ill at school may spread the virus to their older relatives.

But it’s not just older people who are at risk — in some rare cases, a child’s health can be severely affected. Nearly 600 young people in the U.S., from infants to 20 year olds, have developed an inflammatory syndrome linked to Covid-19, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reports. Most of the children required intensive care.

“I fear that there has been this sense that kids just won’t get infected or don’t get infected in the same way as adults and that, therefore, they’re almost like a bubbled population,” Michael Osterholm, an infectious diseases expert at the University of Minnesota, told The Times in July.

“There will be transmission,” he said. “What we have to do is accept that now and include that in our plans.”

You know what else kids can do and are thinking about doing at a much larger rate. 

https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/08/13/cdc-mental-health-pandemic-394832?__twitter_impression=true

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on August 14, 2020, 06:53:09 AM

Being forced back to schools in the midst of a pandemic, suicide.    End result is the same.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 14, 2020, 07:00:31 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 14, 2020, 06:20:05 AM

You know what else kids can do and are thinking about doing at a much larger rate. 

https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/08/13/cdc-mental-health-pandemic-394832?__twitter_impression=true

Yep, it's a serious issue. One of many that make the us-versus-them debates about things like mask-wearing so dopey. When the person at the very top starts by doing everything in his power to divide, label and look out for his own self-interests, this is the kind of thing you get.

But again, despite your attempts to change the subject, kids are NOT immune to COVID-19 themselves, and also act as super-spreaders to adults.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on August 14, 2020, 08:51:24 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 14, 2020, 06:20:05 AM

You know what else kids can do and are thinking about doing at a much larger rate. 

https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/08/13/cdc-mental-health-pandemic-394832?__twitter_impression=true

And yet we are still waiting for the current administration to take a single step toward providing widespread, affordable access to mental health services to all who need help. Get back to me when that happens.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 14, 2020, 08:57:57 AM

The best way to help the mental health of our youth is to get control of the virus.

Because I am not sure that sending them into a school, only to see their classmates, teachers, etc. getting sick and eventually going back to virtual learning is good for anyone's mental health.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on August 14, 2020, 09:10:58 AM

Cannot let science get in the way of kids going back to school.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on August 14, 2020, 10:46:03 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 14, 2020, 06:20:05 AM

You know what else kids can do and are thinking about doing at a much larger rate. 

https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/08/13/cdc-mental-health-pandemic-394832?__twitter_impression=true

A competent government would work to address both issues.
Our current government instead ignores both and gets happy when knuckleheads present it as an either/or debate.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on August 14, 2020, 04:42:48 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 14, 2020, 08:57:57 AM

The best way to help the mental health of our youth is to get control of the virus.

Because I am not sure that sending them into a school, only to see their classmates, teachers, etc. getting sick and eventually going back to virtual learning is good for anyone's mental health.

  like you just said-"you ain't sure"...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 14, 2020, 10:35:05 PM

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america

I do not like these projections.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 15, 2020, 06:40:30 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on August 14, 2020, 10:35:05 PM

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america

I do not like these projections.

Unbelievable, even with universal masking they anticipating almost 100k more deaths.  As if to say there isn’t much we can do to slow this thing down, just buckle up for a long fall I guess.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on August 15, 2020, 07:37:10 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 15, 2020, 06:40:30 AM

Unbelievable, even with universal masking they anticipating almost 100k more deaths.  As if to say there isn’t much we can do to slow this thing down, just buckle up for a long fall I guess.
[/quote

With Universal masks: 60k more deaths
Without: 130k more deaths
Easing restrictions: 230k more deaths

Seems like masks slow things down considerably. They also didn't look at more restrictions, re. shutting down schools, indoor dining, etc.

So It says we can slow this thing down, depending on what restraints we are willing to accept.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 15, 2020, 07:45:12 AM

Quote from: forgetful on August 15, 2020, 07:37:10 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 15, 2020, 06:40:30 AM

Unbelievable, even with universal masking they anticipating almost 100k more deaths.  As if to say there isn’t much we can do to slow this thing down, just buckle up for a long fall I guess.
[/quote

With Universal masks: 60k more deaths
Without: 130k more deaths
Easing restrictions: 230k more deaths

Seems like masks slow things down considerably. They also didn't look at more restrictions, re. shutting down schools, indoor dining, etc.

So It says we can slow this thing down, depending on what restraints we are willing to accept.

Would be interested if they could but together a projection for 50%, 60%, 70% mask compliance, with limited easing of restrictions

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on August 15, 2020, 08:40:20 AM

‘We’re Clearly Not Doing Enough’: Drop in Testing Hampers Coronavirus Response

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/15/us/coronavirus-testing-decrease.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

For months, public health experts and federal officials have said that significantly expanding the number of coronavirus tests administered in the United States is essential to reining in the pandemic. By some estimates, several million people might need to be tested each day, including many people who don’t feel sick.

But the country remains far short of that benchmark and, for the first time, the number of known tests conducted each day has fallen.

Reported daily tests trended downward for much of the last two weeks, essentially stalling the nation’s testing response. Some 733,000 people have been tested each day this month on average, down from nearly 750,000 in July, according to the COVID Tracking Project. The seven-day test average dropped to 709,000 on Monday, the lowest in nearly a month, before ticking upward again at week’s end.

The troubling trend comes after months of steady increases in testing, and may in part reflect that fewer people are seeking out tests as known cases have leveled off at more than 50,000 per day, after surging even higher this summer. But the plateau in testing may also reflect people’s frustration at the prospect of long lines and delays in getting results — as well as another fundamental problem: The nation has yet to build a robust system to test vast portions of the population, not just those seeking tests.

-----------------------

It is going to get worse before it gets better, folks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on August 15, 2020, 08:53:16 AM

It is quite believable.   One of the problems is that many choose not to.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 15, 2020, 10:20:39 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on August 15, 2020, 08:40:20 AM

‘We’re Clearly Not Doing Enough’: Drop in Testing Hampers Coronavirus Response

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/15/us/coronavirus-testing-decrease.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

"I said to my people, 'Slow the testing down please,' " the President had said.

Trump now says he wasn't kidding when he told officials to slow down coronavirus testing, contradicting staff
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/22/politics/donald-trump-testing-slow-down-response/index.html

Again, they say the quiet stuff out loud, and vile people cheer along.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 15, 2020, 10:36:16 AM

This is good news for testing.  Also a pretty interesting story of a university partnering with the NBA to generate the data needed to get qualification.

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-issues-emergency-use-authorization-yale-school-public-health (https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-issues-emergency-use-authorization-yale-school-public-health)

https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2020/06/26/spit-and-swish-inside-the-nba-yale-partnership/ (https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2020/06/26/spit-and-swish-inside-the-nba-yale-partnership/)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on August 15, 2020, 12:45:28 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 15, 2020, 10:20:39 AM

"I said to my people, 'Slow the testing down please,' " the President had said.

Trump now says he wasn't kidding when he told officials to slow down coronavirus testing, contradicting staff
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/22/politics/donald-trump-testing-slow-down-response/index.html

Again, they say the quiet stuff out loud, and vile people cheer along.

His 'people' are listening. Florida, Texas, and Airzona have fallen off of their tests-per-day highs from July.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on August 15, 2020, 12:45:46 PM

Lotta twitter chatter today about FDA approving cheap, instant saliva test.

Anyone have more info?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on August 15, 2020, 12:47:32 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on August 15, 2020, 12:45:46 PM

Lotta twitter chatter today about FDA approving cheap, instant saliva test.

Anyone have more info?

https://twitter.com/aslavitt/status/1294654256763609090?s=21

Long thread but lots of info in it

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 15, 2020, 12:56:38 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on August 15, 2020, 12:45:46 PM

Lotta twitter chatter today about FDA approving cheap, instant saliva test.

Anyone have more info?

I posted info on this page earlier. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on August 15, 2020, 01:11:55 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 15, 2020, 12:56:38 PM

I posted info on this page earlier.

Missed it. Thanks

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 15, 2020, 02:23:37 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on August 15, 2020, 01:11:55 PM

Missed it. Thanks

Jes here is Yale’s PR.  This will cut down on cost, increase speed.  Someone from the lab was on NPR last night saying that getting the sample off the swab takes a lot of time and resources.  This eliminates that and can allow for a high number of tests each ‘run’.  They (Yale) are really excited they were able to get this approved and have been using it to test locally at the hospital since early days (in test mode).  Next step would be cheap paper strip test you can take at home to detect high level of virus shedding.  Would be the breakthrough we need To keep sick people at home. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on August 15, 2020, 02:30:08 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 15, 2020, 02:23:37 PM

Jes here is Yale’s PR.  This will cut down on cost, increase speed.  Someone from the lab was on NPR last night saying that getting the sample off the swab takes a lot of time and resources.  This eliminates that and can allow for a high number of tests each ‘run’.  They (Yale) are really excited they were able to get this approved and have been using it to test locally at the hospital since early days (in test mode).  Next step would be cheap paper strip test you can take at home to detect high level of virus shedding.  Would be the breakthrough we need To keep sick people at home.

Link to PR:

https://news.yale.edu/2020/08/15/yales-rapid-covid-19-saliva-test-receives-fda-emergency-use-authorization

It could be HUGE if it's as accurate as they think.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 15, 2020, 03:12:43 PM

Thanks gooo.  Forgot the important part!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 15, 2020, 03:26:19 PM

I’ve found this individual to be a good follow on Twitter as it relates to immune response...  he just shared a paper that shows antibody protection is real.

https://twitter.com/florian_krammer/status/1294706246151536647?s=21 (https://twitter.com/florian_krammer/status/1294706246151536647?s=21)

Another one he shared showing mild cases can carry immune response into the future. https://twitter.com/peppermarion/status/1294358071205011456?s=21 (https://twitter.com/peppermarion/status/1294358071205011456?s=21)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 16, 2020, 03:49:11 PM

Yet another sobering account of why the U.S. has been losing (and continues to lose) the fight against COVID-19.

https://time.com/5879086/us-covid-19/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=the-brief&utm_content=20200816&et_rid=21516229&fbclid=IwAR2RylLyJm1eu0XaVDbUF5ZedsauQWostFt6-Kp6LluyewMheKobl3-ysso

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on August 17, 2020, 09:24:13 AM

Interesting article about how politics, logistical issues and other factors slowed the flow of federal $$ to communities to fight COVID, and led to some bizarre disparities in how much various communities received.

Politics slows flow of U.S. virus funds to local public health

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/08/17/politics-slows-flow-of-us-virus-funds-to-local-public-health

One passage in particular highlighted some of the disparities:

Some cities received large federal grants, including Louisville, Ky., whose Health Department was given $42 million by April, more than doubling its annual budget. Because of the way the money was distributed, Louisville's Health Department alone received more money from the CARES Act than the entire government of the city of Minneapolis.

Philadelphia's Health Department was awarded $100 million from a separate fund from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Honolulu County, where cases have remained relatively low, received $124,454 for every positive COVID-19 case it had reported as of Aug. 9, while El Paso County in Texas got just $1,685 per case.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 17, 2020, 04:23:15 PM

Quote from: tower912 on August 15, 2020, 08:53:16 AM

It is quite believable.   One of the problems is that many choose not to.

Yessir. I long ago stopped saying "Unbelievable!" when it comes to COVID-19. Or, for that matter, when it comes to the national leaders who chose to ignore it for months.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 18, 2020, 08:45:05 PM

Apparently a general order of symptoms has been Discovered. 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2020-08-19/the-order-covid-19-symptoms-present/12571116 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2020-08-19/the-order-covid-19-symptoms-present/12571116)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on August 18, 2020, 09:14:36 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 18, 2020, 08:45:05 PM

Apparently a general order of symptoms has been Discovered. 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2020-08-19/the-order-covid-19-symptoms-present/12571116 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2020-08-19/the-order-covid-19-symptoms-present/12571116)

Interesting. The only people I know that have had it started with a headache and sore throat. Fever came later.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on August 19, 2020, 01:01:02 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 18, 2020, 08:45:05 PM

Apparently a general order of symptoms has been Discovered. 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2020-08-19/the-order-covid-19-symptoms-present/12571116 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2020-08-19/the-order-covid-19-symptoms-present/12571116)

I have a friend who works at a residential facility for adults with cognitive disabilities.  They have positive cases in several of their housing units.  The odd thing is that in each unit, everone had the exact same symptoms - in one unit it was only loss of taste and smell, in another it was headache and cough, etc.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on August 19, 2020, 07:19:46 PM

Would not complain if Covid kills the Greek system.

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/College-Coronavirus-Outbreaks-Linked-to-Greek-Life-15494570.php

(read in reality: oh no! a fall guy that gets clicks! or perhaps: Kids these days!)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on August 19, 2020, 08:29:26 PM

Moving this discussion to the main thread...

Quote from: Lennys Tap on August 19, 2020, 03:22:16 PM

I can’t speak for Texas, Arizona and NC I suspect your conspiracy theory is also wrong about them but I’m not sure. Again if the same amount of people are getting sick and this is just a case of a halt in testing hospitalizations and deaths will remain constant. If not, they will drop. Stay tuned.

Lenny, I wouldn't be so quick to call this political BS. I've attached screenshots for Florida. Pretty obvious the positive #s peaked around July 18 and declined a bunch since.  However, the death #s have largely remained flat since early August. Seems suspicious to me.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 19, 2020, 08:39:52 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on August 19, 2020, 08:29:26 PM

Moving this discussion to the main thread...

Lenny, I wouldn't be so quick to call this political BS. I've attached screenshots for Florida. Pretty obvious the positive #s peaked around July 18 and declined a bunch since.  However, the death #s have largely remained flat since early August. Seems suspicious to me.

Deaths will take longer to lag than that won’t they?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on August 19, 2020, 08:41:35 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 19, 2020, 08:39:52 PM

Deaths will take longer to lag than that won’t they?

Yes. Deaths should be peaking around now, give or take a week/10 days in either direction. If they don’t Strastrophy will have a point.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 19, 2020, 08:45:54 PM

It used to be 3-weeks but because of better testing I think it is now ~4 in some of the models.  So we should see them come down soon.

I still think the percent positivity staying the same/coming down slightly is a good sign that the interventions are working.  If they were restricting capacity, that should go up as only the sickest get accepted for a test. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on August 19, 2020, 08:56:22 PM

Aug 8 would be 3 weeks since the averaged peak. Or are hospitalizations lasting longer these days?  Honest question. I thought 21 days was still the
common average number?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on August 19, 2020, 08:57:44 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 19, 2020, 08:45:54 PM

It used to be 3-weeks but because of better testing I think it is now ~4 in some of the models.  So we should see them come down soon.

Still then, average numbers should be dropping rapidly from Aug 15 on. We don't see that yet.

Edit: to be clear in the screenshots, I was trying to highlight the high average of positives/deaths (not 3 or 4 weeks). My point remains the line is pretty flat for the past 3 weeks...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 19, 2020, 09:01:57 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on August 19, 2020, 08:57:44 PM

Still then, average numbers ahold be dropping rapidly from Aug 15 on. We don't see that yet.

I agree.  I’m starting to wade in areas where I have two inches of knowledge in a 12 foot pool, but death is reported way late.  So while it may take 3-weeks in actuality, the report happens far after the death officially.  So it’s not perfect but we certainly should see movement soon.

We should already be seeing this in hospitalizations if it were widely shared....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on August 19, 2020, 09:12:08 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 19, 2020, 09:01:57 PM

I agree.  I’m starting to wade in areas where I have two inches of knowledge in a 12 foot pool

Nonsense! We're all internet experts!

Fair points (you and Lenny), but looking at the slopes on the charts, something seems off (hence my agreement with skat).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 19, 2020, 09:18:49 PM

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/the-trends-are-good-miami-dade-mayor-optimistic-but-says-covid-numbers-need-to-drop-further/2278992/%3famp (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/the-trends-are-good-miami-dade-mayor-optimistic-but-says-covid-numbers-need-to-drop-further/2278992/%3famp)

This would support the hospitalization side. 

By the way I did hear a state was not reporting their ‘quick’ Abbott tests.  A few others have been missing lab feeds.  So maybe the magnitude of the case declines are misleading.

That is why this is a funny debate.  Yes FL you are way better than a month ago, but you are still in a really bad place.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 20, 2020, 07:50:01 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 19, 2020, 09:01:57 PM

I agree.  I’m starting to wade in areas where I have two inches of knowledge in a 12 foot pool, but death is reported way late.  So while it may take 3-weeks in actuality, the report happens far after the death officially.  So it’s not perfect but we certainly should see movement soon.

We should already be seeing this in hospitalizations if it were widely shared....

This is correct, average time from hospitalization to reported death is 4 weeks

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on August 20, 2020, 09:57:47 AM

Got tested at State Fair on Tuesday after work.  From turning onto the street that took you into where they were doing the testing to driving out of the testing site took about 5 minutes.  They hardly stuck the swab up my nose, I didn't feel much more than a tickle.  Had my results about 30 hours later.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on August 20, 2020, 11:09:31 AM

Georgia State University Quarterback diagnosed with heart condition after his experience with COVID-19:

https://twitter.com/mikelecolasurdo/status/1296456027509002240?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on August 20, 2020, 11:32:21 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 20, 2020, 07:50:01 AM

This is correct, average time from hospitalization to reported death is 4 weeks

Aug 15 was 4 weeks from the positive peak.  So is MUScoop declaring it 5 weeks now?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 20, 2020, 01:05:28 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on August 20, 2020, 11:32:21 AM

Aug 15 was 4 weeks from the positive peak.  So is MUScoop declaring it 5 weeks now?

I'm just quoting the existing data/science. But I'll happily make up new, totally unsupported facts if it will earn me a free Scoop subscription.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on August 20, 2020, 01:30:43 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 20, 2020, 01:05:28 PM

if it will earn me a free Scoop subscription.

We don't just hand those out.  But around black Friday we might run a promotion - check early and often, quality quantities will be limited.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on August 20, 2020, 01:50:10 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on August 20, 2020, 11:09:31 AM

Georgia State University Quarterback diagnosed with heart condition after his experience with COVID-19:

https://twitter.com/mikelecolasurdo/status/1296456027509002240?s=19

But he didn't die so many people will say it's no big deal....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on August 20, 2020, 01:58:14 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on August 20, 2020, 11:09:31 AM

Georgia State University Quarterback diagnosed with heart condition after his experience with COVID-19:

https://twitter.com/mikelecolasurdo/status/1296456027509002240?s=19

Not to be the devils advocate, but there are numerous mild heart conditions, including myocarditis, that can flare up with any sort of viral infection, including flu or common cold.  Without reading more into his case, I would imagine it’s what he’s experiencing like Eduardo Rodriguez from the Red Sox. It can be serious and it’s good that it was picked up, but rushing to label it a COVID specific thing is incorrect.  If anything, the supreme caution around COVID is likely the reason it was picked up. Which is good as it actually leans young in terms of distribution of cases and often flies under the radar.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 20, 2020, 02:24:16 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on August 20, 2020, 01:58:14 PM

Not to be the devils advocate, but there are numerous mild heart conditions, including myocarditis, that can flare up with any sort of viral infection, including flu or common cold.  Without reading more into his case, I would imagine it’s what he’s experiencing like Eduardo Rodriguez from the Red Sox. It can be serious and it’s good that it was picked up, but rushing to label it a COVID specific thing is incorrect.  If anything, the supreme caution around COVID is likely the reason it was picked up. Which is good as it actually leans young in terms of distribution of cases and often flies under the radar.

If we use your ‘don’t jump to conclusions’ caution, you shouldn’t assume it’s not Covid either. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on August 20, 2020, 03:05:31 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 20, 2020, 02:24:16 PM

If we use your ‘don’t jump to conclusions’ caution, you shouldn’t assume it’s not Covid either.

Sorry, I’m not meaning in his case, I’m meaning like people getting myocarditis is something specific to COVID when it’s not uncommon in other viral/bacterial situations. Close to half a million cases of myocarditis/pericarditis in the US annually. That’s all

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 20, 2020, 03:12:04 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on August 20, 2020, 03:05:31 PM

Close to half a million cases of myocarditis/pericarditis in the US annually. That’s all

Shut it all down then. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 20, 2020, 03:14:47 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on August 20, 2020, 03:05:31 PM

Sorry, I’m not meaning in his case, I’m meaning like people getting myocarditis is something specific to COVID when it’s not uncommon in other viral/bacterial situations. Close to half a million cases of myocarditis/pericarditis in the US annually. That’s all

Got it.  I read that differently. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 20, 2020, 07:41:53 PM

Here’s why America can’t have nice things.

Donald Trump praised supporters on Thursday as "incredible people" for defying the state's "shutdown" orders and social distancing guidelines while gathered for a campaign rally in Pennsylvania, a key swing state he boldly predicted he will win come Election Day.


Bunker Boy openly advocating for disease and death. Or as he says, “Let them rot”.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 21, 2020, 10:11:56 AM

Here's some great news for all those worried about rich folks having to settle for being merely super-rich instead of mega-rich ...

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3607904-disney-fox-reverse-pandemic-driven-executive-pay-cuts?utm_medium=email&utm_source=seeking_alpha&mail_subject=dis-disney-fox-reverse-pandemic-driven-executive-pay-cuts&utm_campaign=rta-stock-news&utm_content=link-1

Walt Disney and Fox are moving back toward pre-pandemic normalcy in one sense: They've undone temporary pay cuts and reinstated executive salaries that were reduced.

Fox ended compensation reductions of 15% for executives at the VP level and above, saying “The sacrifice you have made over the past several months has allowed us to protect our full-time colleagues with salary and benefit continuation."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on August 21, 2020, 01:56:58 PM

COVID-19 case confirmed at Sturgis bar

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/08/18/south-dakota-tallies-460000-vehicles-during-sturgis-rally

This year’s Sturgis Motorcycle Rally drew more than 460,000 vehicles during the 10-day event, according to a count South Dakota transportation officials released Tuesday.

The count represents a decrease of nearly 8 percent from last year but showed that many were undeterred by the coronavirus pandemic. Sturgis officials said they expected fewer people to show up this year, estimating they would see between 250,000 and 300,000 people during the 10-day event.

Most people didn't take significant precautions against COVID-19 infections at this year’s rally. A few people wore masks and some said they were avoiding crowds, but many others packed close together at bars and rock shows.

The South Dakota Department of Health issued a warning on Tuesday that one person who spent several hours at a bar on Main Street in Sturgis has tested positive for COVID-19 and may have spread it to others.

------------------

Given the pics of packed streets and bars, it will be very surprising if this doesn't turn into a big infection-booster.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 21, 2020, 03:15:29 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on August 21, 2020, 01:56:58 PM

The South Dakota Department of Health issued a warning on Tuesday that one person who spent several hours at a bar on Main Street in Sturgis has tested positive for COVID-19 and may have spread it to others.

I was gonna say, if it's only one person, it will have been the biggest victory since VJ Day.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on August 21, 2020, 05:00:22 PM

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/21/us/sturgis-motorcyle-rally-sd-covid-nebraska-trnd/index.html

Nebraska has tied some cases to Sturgis.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 21, 2020, 09:15:07 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on August 21, 2020, 05:00:22 PM

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/21/us/sturgis-motorcyle-rally-sd-covid-nebraska-trnd/index.html

Nebraska has tied some cases to Sturgis.

These fools better not expect taxpayers to take care of them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on August 21, 2020, 09:48:55 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on August 21, 2020, 05:00:22 PM

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/21/us/sturgis-motorcyle-rally-sd-covid-nebraska-trnd/index.html

Nebraska has tied some cases to Sturgis.

I’m sure plenty more will show up across the Midwest soon. Ugh.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on August 21, 2020, 09:51:23 PM

Well, crap.

Sturgis rally linked to 15 Minnesota COVID-19 cases, including 1 hospitalization

https://m.startribune.com/sturgis-linked-to-15-minnesota-covid-cases-1-hospitalization/572185412/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on August 22, 2020, 07:47:49 AM

There will be more.   If you are dumb enough to try to pet a buffalo, it is safe to assume you will spread COVID.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on August 22, 2020, 05:21:34 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on August 20, 2020, 03:12:04 PM

Shut it all down then.

  no, got to "flatten the curve" first...then shut 'er down...unless you're "protesting" of course

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 22, 2020, 06:28:24 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on August 22, 2020, 05:21:34 PM

  no, got to "flatten the curve" first...then shut 'er down...unless you're "protesting" of course

It's cute that supporters of an emperor who thought it was a good idea to hold an indoor campaign rally for 20,000 people - with no masks and no social distancing - like to pretend that it's worse to have outdoor marches that include a significant number of mask-wearers.

Fortunately, only 6,000 people showed up to see your emperor. Of course, the hundreds who got sick, including the late great Herman Cain, still weren't so fortunate.

"Cases will be close to zero within days."

"We have it totally under control."

"They are dying. That's true. It is what it is."

"I'll be right eventually."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on August 23, 2020, 04:18:04 PM

Dock spiders just won the northwoods league last night played 50 games with no covid cases.  These players typically stay with foster families.  They also had fans at each game. 

Some good news about sports and how they can survive

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 24, 2020, 09:46:39 AM

First case of re-infection proven potentially.  They traced genome of virus and they were different strains/mutations.  However once again Yale’s virologist puts this in Good perspective and shows the normalcy of the response (again if finding holds)

https://twitter.com/virusesimmunity/status/1297890418168860674?s=21 (https://twitter.com/virusesimmunity/status/1297890418168860674?s=21)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 24, 2020, 10:53:02 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 24, 2020, 09:46:39 AM

First case of re-infection proven potentially.  They traced genome of virus and they were different strains/mutations.  However once again Yale’s virologist puts this in Good perspective and shows the normalcy of the response (again if finding holds)

https://twitter.com/virusesimmunity/status/1297890418168860674?s=21 (https://twitter.com/virusesimmunity/status/1297890418168860674?s=21)

When I first saw this report, I said, "Oh no." But as you said, upon reading the whole thing, there's too much unknown to have any real response; and the genuine risks, as we know them right now, still appear miniscule.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on August 25, 2020, 08:39:59 AM

Revved by Sturgis Rally, COVID-19 infections move fast, far

https://apnews.com/3ea1a021f82fee05736f22138df90ddf

Health departments in four states, including South Dakota, Minnesota, Nebraska and Wyoming, have reported a total of 81 cases among people who attended the rally. South Dakota health officials said Monday they had received reports of infections from residents of two other states — North Dakota and Washington. The Department of Health also issued public warnings of possible COVID-19 exposure at five businesses popular with bikers, saying it didn’t know how many people could have been exposed.

————————-

From one bar with known exposures to five. From a couple of states with known infections from Sturgis up to six. It won’t be long before infections get to your state.

And while I admire the intent of  Minnesota health officials advising anyone who went to Sturgis to quarantine for two weeks, I kinda doubt that’s going to happen.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on August 25, 2020, 08:53:33 AM

"The 2020 Biogen conference in February in Boston likely led to 20,000 COVID-19 cases in the state, including 122 living or working at homeless shelters."

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/08/25/business/biogen-conference-likely-led-20000-covid-19-cases-boston-area-researchers-say/?s_campaign=bostonglobe%3Asocialflow%3Atwitter

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 25, 2020, 09:45:58 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on August 25, 2020, 08:39:59 AM

Revved by Sturgis Rally, COVID-19 infections move fast, far

https://apnews.com/3ea1a021f82fee05736f22138df90ddf

Health departments in four states, including South Dakota, Minnesota, Nebraska and Wyoming, have reported a total of 81 cases among people who attended the rally. South Dakota health officials said Monday they had received reports of infections from residents of two other states — North Dakota and Washington. The Department of Health also issued public warnings of possible COVID-19 exposure at five businesses popular with bikers, saying it didn’t know how many people could have been exposed.

————————-

From one bar with known exposures to five. From a couple of states with known infections from Sturgis up to six. It won’t be long before infections get to your state.

And while I admire the intent of  Minnesota health officials advising anyone who went to Sturgis to quarantine for two weeks, I kinda doubt that’s going to happen.

Tip of the iceberg. Multiplier effect to come. And unlike the 18-23 year olds spreading COVID at colleges, here we're mostly talking about older gentlemen who might not be in the best shape to begin with. I hope they come out of it OK.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 26, 2020, 09:43:18 AM

It’s been interesting so far this week to listen to the revisionist history regarding the U.S. response to the global pandemic.

Theoretically, millions of lives were saved by this administration despite the opposition party downplaying the severity of the threat.

A few speakers, most notably Kudlow, repeatedly referred to the pandemic in past tense.

Which makes sense, given that Jared declared victory over it months ago.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 26, 2020, 09:52:58 AM

Quote from: MU82 on August 26, 2020, 09:43:18 AM

It’s been interesting so far this week to listen to the revisionist history regarding the U.S. response to the global pandemic.

Theoretically, millions of lives were saved by this administration despite the opposition party downplaying the severity of the threat.

A few speakers, most notably Kudlow, repeatedly referred to the pandemic in past tense.

Which makes sense, given that Jared declared victory over it months ago.

It has been interesting.  It’s easy to forget about everything that was done in the first 30-45 days during the fog and panic of everything but aside from not mandating masks it really is impressive what federal and local officials have been able to do in such a short amount of time.

The field hospitals, navy ships, ramping up ventilators, rapid development of a vaccine, therapeutics, shuttling the economy down to flatten curve, PPP, increased UI and stimulus, testing, etc....not too many stones left unturned

Was it a perfect response to a once in a lifetime pandemic, of course not but hard not to give everyone involved a passing grade if you’re being objective

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 26, 2020, 09:55:20 AM

Quote from: MU82 on August 26, 2020, 09:43:18 AM

It’s been interesting so far this week to listen to the revisionist history regarding the U.S. response to the global pandemic.

Theoretically, millions of lives were saved by this administration despite the opposition party downplaying the severity of the threat.

A few speakers, most notably Kudlow, repeatedly referred to the pandemic in past tense.

Which makes sense, given that Jared declared victory over it months ago.

Not sure how you can call it revisionist when all they were doing from what I saw was replaying actual videos/interviews of pelosi, Cuomo, deblasio all downplaying the severity of the virus in those early days

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on August 26, 2020, 09:57:07 AM

https://www.npr.org/2020/08/25/905785548/unmasked-protesters-push-past-police-into-idaho-lawmakers-session

More protests in Idaho over lawmaker response to the virus.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on August 26, 2020, 10:12:06 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 26, 2020, 09:55:20 AM

Not sure how you can call it revisionist when all they were doing from what I saw was replaying actual videos/interviews of pelosi, Cuomo, deblasio all downplaying the severity of the virus in those early days

All three of them should be held accountable for their responses.  Deblasio has been incredibly egregious in his response and the love Cuomo has gotten is laughable. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 26, 2020, 10:23:04 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on August 26, 2020, 09:57:07 AM

https://www.npr.org/2020/08/25/905785548/unmasked-protesters-push-past-police-into-idaho-lawmakers-session

More protests in Idaho over lawmaker response to the virus.

Terrorism.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 26, 2020, 12:00:34 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 26, 2020, 09:55:20 AM

Not sure how you can call it revisionist when all they were doing from what I saw was replaying actual videos/interviews of pelosi, Cuomo, deblasio all downplaying the severity of the virus in those early days

There were a lot of mess ups early, including from the scientists. But let’s look at the response from, say, mid-April, when we knew what we were dealing with, when it was obvious masks and social distancing worked, etc. From there, let’s compare the responses of your hero and pretty much everybody else.

If you’re being objective.

“They are dying. That’s true. It is ehat it is.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 26, 2020, 12:13:46 PM

I mean, before mid-April, your hero lied more than most (actually all), including famously predicting that cases would be “close to zero within days” on Feb. 26.

But again, from mid-April on, from the moment he went against his own guidelines and told gun-toting, non-mask-wearing thugs to storm their state capitals and “LIBERATE MINNESOTA!” ... “LIBERATE MICHIGAN!” ... “LIBERATE VIRGINIA!” his response was an unmitigated disaster. 175K American deaths on his watch, blood on his hands, an economy ruined.

If you’re being objective.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 26, 2020, 12:53:12 PM

Quote from: MU82 on August 26, 2020, 12:13:46 PM

I mean, before mid-April, your hero lied more than most (actually all), including famously predicting that cases would be “close to zero within days” on Feb. 26.

But again, from mid-April on, from the moment he went against his own guidelines and told gun-toting, non-mask-wearing thugs to storm their state capitals and “LIBERATE MINNESOTA!” ... “LIBERATE MICHIGAN!” ... “LIBERATE VIRGINIA!” his response was an unmitigated disaster. 175K American deaths on his watch, blood on his hands, an economy ruined.

If you’re being objective.

Yikes, take a breath man. 

I acknowledged it wasn't a perfect response but overall a solid response.  Mistakes were of course made but when initial projections called for 2.2 million American lives to be lost and to be able to limit that total so far to less then 10% of what the experts were fearing I'd say that's pretty good.

Your comments over the last 6 months have proven you are not able to have a reasoned or rational discussion on this as evidenced again by your comments above.

Stay safe and stay sheltered MU82!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 26, 2020, 01:17:39 PM

The opposite of “solid.” The projections you stated were if there were no shutdowns, no masks, no social distancing, all of which your hero pushed for.

He was still mocking mask-wearing and calling it nothing more than the flu in June. He got pissed at the NC governor in late June when told he couldn’t have a full arena with no masks. Then he held his deadly Tulsa rally. Herman Cain, RIP. “Solid” for sure.

2 out of 3 Americans, including a lot of Republicans, believe he handled it horrendously.

But yeah ... it’s only me.

You stay safe too, my friend.

“They are dying. That’s right. It is what it is.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 26, 2020, 01:20:17 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 26, 2020, 12:53:12 PM

Yikes, take a breath man. 

I acknowledged it wasn't a perfect response but overall a solid response.  Mistakes were of course made but when initial projections called for 2.2 million American lives to be lost and to be able to limit that total so far to less then 10% of what the experts were fearing I'd say that's pretty good.

Your comments over the last 6 months have proven you are not able to have a reasoned or rational discussion on this as evidenced again by your comments above.

Stay safe and stay sheltered MU82!!

Going to have to strongly disagree here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 26, 2020, 03:35:28 PM

Just one more attempt to kill more people. No more evidence is needed to show that the scientists have been shut out and the politicians are making all decisions based on the election. Make no mistake - this is utterly inhuman.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/26/politics/cdc-coronavirus-testing-guidance/index.html

(CNN)A sudden change in federal guidelines on coronavirus testing came this week as a result of pressure from the upper ranks of the Trump administration, a federal health official close to the process tells CNN.

"It's coming from the top down," the official said of the new directive from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
The new guidelines raise the bar on who should get tested, advising that some people without symptoms probably don't need it -- even if they've been in close contact with an infected person.
Previously, the CDC said viral testing was appropriate for people with recent or suspected exposure, even if they were asymptomatic.
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CDC would not comment on questions about its own policy change. A CDC spokesperson referred all questions to the Department of Health and Human Services.
Covid-19 child cases in the US have increased by 21% since early August, new data shows
Covid-19 child cases in the US have increased by 21% since early August, new data shows
In a statement to CNN, HHS Assistant Secretary Brett Giroir said: "This Guidance has been updated to reflect current evidence and best public health practices, and to further emphasize using CDC-approved prevention strategies to protect yourself, your family, and the most vulnerable of all ages."
HHS has not specified what change in "current evidence" may have driven the change. In a call with reporters Wednesday afternoon, Giroir said the update to the CDC guidelines on testing was deliberated and approved last week.
"This was discussed at the last task force meeting and approved, I think that was Thursday of last week," Giroir told CNN's Jeremy Diamond on the call. "We posted this on Monday morning."
Yet Thursday was the same day Dr. Anthony Fauci, a member of the task force, was having vocal cord surgery to remove a polyp. He had general anesthesia and doctors advised him to curtail his talking for a while to allow his vocal cords to recover.
Giroir said in the call that the updated CDC guidelines were written by multiple authors, adding that he, Fauci, Dr. Deborah Birx and Dr. Stephen Hahn, the commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration, worked on the updated guidelines.
Giroir said the focus was to do more "appropriate" testing, not "less" testing, and said, "it cannot be interpreted that we are inhibiting local public health."
But the new directive also lines up with a trend in policy and rhetoric from the White House. President Donald Trump has repeatedly suggested the US should do less testing.
Dr. Carlos del Rio, an infectious disease specialist and associate dean of Emory University School of Medicine, said on CNN Newsroom on Wednesday that the CDC has not provided evidence to explain the changes.
"I mean, the evidence that I'm aware of as of today is that close to 40% of the cases of the infections are asymptomatic and asymptomatic people transmit the infection," Del Rio said.
"So, not testing -- I mean, if you have been in contact with somebody for a few minutes, that's okay. But if you have been in contact for 50 minutes and that people doesn't have a mask, I think you need to be tested regardless if you have symptoms or not. We know especially young people going into the house and then transmit inside the household. So, the guidelines baffle me and I really don't understand them."
New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo accused the Trump administration of using the CDC as a political tool for the campaign.
"The only plausible rationale is they want fewer people taking tests because, as the president has said, if we don't take tests you won't know that people are covid positive and the number of covid positive people will come down," Cuomo told reporters Wednesday. "It fosters his failed policy of denial," he said of the President.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on August 26, 2020, 03:35:42 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 26, 2020, 12:53:12 PM

Yikes, take a breath man. 

I acknowledged it wasn't a perfect response but overall a solid response.  Mistakes were of course made but when initial projections called for 2.2 million American lives to be lost and to be able to limit that total so far to less then 10% of what the experts were fearing I'd say that's pretty good.

Overall solid response?  If you mean for the economy then maybe?  If you mean from a health care/lives lost perspective I can think of nothing worse in the United States in my nearly 50 years in being alive.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 26, 2020, 03:47:35 PM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on August 26, 2020, 03:35:42 PM

Overall solid response?  If you mean for the economy then maybe?  If you mean from a health care/lives lost perspective I can think of nothing worse in the United States in my nearly 50 years in being alive.

As discussed above, the models showed if we did nothing 2.2 million American deaths.  We prevented over 90% of those predicted deaths by doing things, there was no scenario based in reality that involved zero deaths.  In hindsight could we have kept deaths lower with sooner action from federal and local officials sure. 

The goal from day 1 is how do we limit those predicted 2.2 million deaths and to further complicate the decisions that needed to be made they had to look at not just deaths related to the virus but deaths associated to extended lockdowns with increased mental health challenges, addictions, etc.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 26, 2020, 03:54:01 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 26, 2020, 09:52:58 AM

It has been interesting.  It’s easy to forget about everything that was done in the first 30-45 days during the fog and panic of everything but aside from not mandating masks it really is impressive what federal and local officials have been able to do in such a short amount of time.

The field hospitals, navy ships, ramping up ventilators, rapid development of a vaccine, therapeutics, shuttling the economy down to flatten curve, PPP, increased UI and stimulus, testing, etc....not too many stones left unturned

Was it a perfect response to a once in a lifetime pandemic, of course not but hard not to give everyone involved a passing grade if you’re being objective

Ummm, no.

Just no.

JFC.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 26, 2020, 03:54:24 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 26, 2020, 03:47:35 PM

As discussed above, the models showed if we did nothing 2.2 million American deaths.  We prevented over 90% of those predicted deaths by doing things, there was no scenario based in reality that involved zero deaths.  In hindsight could we have kept deaths lower with sooner action from federal and local officials sure. 

The goal from day 1 is how do we limit those predicted 2.2 million deaths and to further complicate the decisions that needed to be made they had to look at not just deaths related to the virus but deaths associated to extended lockdowns with increased mental health challenges, addictions, etc.

This is really a dumb argument.  We should be compared to our similarly resourced peer countries, not some absolute.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on August 26, 2020, 03:56:13 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 26, 2020, 03:47:35 PM

As discussed above, the models showed if we did nothing 2.2 million American deaths.  We prevented over 90% of those predicted deaths by doing things, there was no scenario based in reality that involved zero deaths.  In hindsight could we have kept deaths lower with sooner action from federal and local officials sure. 

The goal from day 1 is how do we limit those predicted 2.2 million deaths and to further complicate the decisions that needed to be made they had to look at not just deaths related to the virus but deaths associated to extended lockdowns with increased mental health challenges, addictions, etc.

We have nearly 25% of the total cases and deaths in the world yet are only 5% of the overall population.  This is with supposedly the best health care system in the world.  I will allow that we would never have 5% of the cases/deaths given travel/population density but that allowed our results have been nothing short of disastrous.

The economy has been the only thing that has been on par with the developed world.  The rest,  I will repeat,  is the worst I have seen in my lifetime.  And I pray to the almighty I will never see worse.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on August 26, 2020, 03:56:57 PM

How cute.   You think this is somewhere near over.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 26, 2020, 04:04:45 PM

Quote from: tower912 on August 26, 2020, 03:56:57 PM

How cute.   You think this is somewhere near over.

I never once said it was near over....I think it will be around long after the vaccine is made available but from a gov’t response view I’m not sure what else they can do.

Up to us know to protect the vulnerable and stay home when we’re showing symptoms.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 26, 2020, 04:16:26 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 26, 2020, 03:47:35 PM

As discussed above, the models showed if we did nothing 2.2 million American deaths.  We prevented over 90% of those predicted deaths by doing things, there was no scenario based in reality that involved zero deaths.  In hindsight could we have kept deaths lower with sooner action from federal and local officials sure. 

The goal from day 1 is how do we limit those predicted 2.2 million deaths and to further complicate the decisions that needed to be made they had to look at not just deaths related to the virus but deaths associated to extended lockdowns with increased mental health challenges, addictions, etc.

Ridiculous.

Reminds me of when I was on a jury in downtown Chicago and the plaintiff's lawyer asked early on for $60 million for his client. We ended up giving the client $22 million. But during deliberations, several members of the jury kept asking why we weren't giving the $60 million, or closer to the $60 million or at least half of the $60 million.

A couple of us had to say, "There IS no $60 million. There never was. That's simply what the lawyer wants. Get the $60 million out of your head!"

Similarly, there is no 2.2 million. There never was. It was a theoretical, hypothetical number based on models if we had taken absolutely no mitigation steps as a nation -- you know, kind of what your hero did at his deadly (but thankfully poorly attended) Tulsa rally. That's what he wanted to do the entire time; he didn't give a shyte about anybody's life. He wanted the "church pews filled on Easter." He told thugs to storm state capitals in violation of the guidelines he had set out less than 18 hours earlier. He encouraged the governors of Florida, Texas and Arizona to re-open their states; that sure went swell. He threatened governors who didn't re-open (and who weren't "nice" to him) that he would deny them PPE. He claimed to have absolute power to re-open the country; thank goodness the Constitution said otherwise or we'd have had many, many more dead.

By mid-May, he stopped even mentioning the coronavirus except to bring out his inner racist and call it the Kung Flu. He went to a mask factory, where masks were required to be worn, and he didn't wear a mask. He constantly downplayed the coronavirus, even made fun of it. He could not possibly have given worse leadership, especially once we all know exactly had to be done.

I wonder what you'd be saying had this happened when Obama or Clinton were president. "180K Americans dead (and counting)? Millions and millions unemployed? The economy in tatters? And, as a bonus, racial unrest out the yin-yang? Solid job by Obama, for sure! Really super solid!"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on August 26, 2020, 04:55:52 PM

This is just bonkers, that this change in CDC rules happened while Dr. Fauci was in surgery.

https://twitter.com/cnnpolitics/status/1298730671259684875?s=21

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 26, 2020, 05:27:25 PM

Quote from: reinko on August 26, 2020, 04:55:52 PM

This is just bonkers, that this change in CDC rules happened while Dr. Fauci was in surgery.

https://twitter.com/cnnpolitics/status/1298730671259684875?s=21

Well, Gingrich told his wife he wanted a divorce so he could marry his mistress while his wife was in the hospital for cancer treatment.

Same group of people.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on August 26, 2020, 05:56:24 PM

Wait, people actually think our response to this has been "solid?"  That we're "not sure what else could be done?"

This has to be a schtick, right?  Right?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on August 26, 2020, 05:57:56 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 26, 2020, 04:04:45 PM

I never once said it was near over....I think it will be around long after the vaccine is made available but from a gov’t response view I’m not sure what else they can do.

Up to us know to protect the vulnerable and stay home when we’re showing symptoms.

Just look North of the border, and it's pretty easy to see what a competent and coordinated response could have looked like, and what it could have achieved.

Cumulative confirmed cases per 100,000 over the past 2 weeks, as of today:

Canada: 14.7
US: 192.7

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on August 26, 2020, 05:59:42 PM

Tim Horton's stops COVID?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on August 26, 2020, 06:01:31 PM

Whoa .. this is good news:

https://twitter.com/FayCortez/status/1298751202361069568

BREAKING: Abbott launches $5 coronavirus test that yields results in 15 minutes, without needing any laboratory equipment. This will significantly speed testing efforts. 50 million tests a months, headed our way.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 26, 2020, 06:48:49 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on August 26, 2020, 06:01:31 PM

Whoa .. this is good news:

https://twitter.com/FayCortez/status/1298751202361069568

BREAKING: Abbott launches $5 coronavirus test that yields results in 15 minutes, without needing any laboratory equipment. This will significantly speed testing efforts. 50 million tests a months, headed our way.

Inject this news into my veins!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 26, 2020, 08:20:26 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on August 26, 2020, 05:57:56 PM

Just look North of the border, and it's pretty easy to see what a competent and coordinated response could have looked like, and what it could have achieved.

Cumulative confirmed cases per 100,000 over the past 2 weeks, as of today:

Canada: 14.7
US: 192.7

We have done 79 million tests, they’ve done less then 5.

Calm down.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 26, 2020, 08:29:56 PM

Quote from: MU82 on August 26, 2020, 04:16:26 PM

Ridiculous.

Reminds me of when I was on a jury in downtown Chicago and the plaintiff's lawyer asked early on for $60 million for his client. We ended up giving the client $22 million. But during deliberations, several members of the jury kept asking why we weren't giving the $60 million, or closer to the $60 million or at least half of the $60 million.

A couple of us had to say, "There IS no $60 million. There never was. That's simply what the lawyer wants. Get the $60 million out of your head!"

Similarly, there is no 2.2 million. There never was. It was a theoretical, hypothetical number based on models if we had taken absolutely no mitigation steps as a nation -- you know, kind of what your hero did at his deadly (but thankfully poorly attended) Tulsa rally. That's what he wanted to do the entire time; he didn't give a shyte about anybody's life. He wanted the "church pews filled on Easter." He told thugs to storm state capitals in violation of the guidelines he had set out less than 18 hours earlier. He encouraged the governors of Florida, Texas and Arizona to re-open their states; that sure went swell. He threatened governors who didn't re-open (and who weren't "nice" to him) that he would deny them PPE. He claimed to have absolute power to re-open the country; thank goodness the Constitution said otherwise or we'd have had many, many more dead.

By mid-May, he stopped even mentioning the coronavirus except to bring out his inner racist and call it the Kung Flu. He went to a mask factory, where masks were required to be worn, and he didn't wear a mask. He constantly downplayed the coronavirus, even made fun of it. He could not possibly have given worse leadership, especially once we all know exactly had to be done.

I wonder what you'd be saying had this happened when Obama or Clinton were president. "180K Americans dead (and counting)? Millions and millions unemployed? The economy in tatters? And, as a bonus, racial unrest out the yin-yang? Solid job by Obama, for sure! Really super solid!"

You’ve officially gone off the deep end.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on August 26, 2020, 08:31:59 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 26, 2020, 08:20:26 PM

We have done 79 million tests, they’ve done less then 5.

Calm down.

I would say the 2.2 million that was never actually a real guess was just to scare the public.
Canada also only tests those with symptoms. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 26, 2020, 08:33:03 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on August 26, 2020, 08:31:59 PM

I would say the 2.2 million that was never actually a real guess was just to scare the public.
Canada also only tests those with symptoms.

I’m just using the data the experts came up with, listening to the science right!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 26, 2020, 08:34:03 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on August 26, 2020, 08:31:59 PM

I would say the 2.2 million that was never actually a real guess was just to scare the public.
Canada also only tests those with symptoms.

Wait!?!?!?  This whole time Canada has been doing what our CDC is now recommending and they don’t have people dropping dead left and right.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 26, 2020, 09:04:20 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 26, 2020, 08:29:56 PM

You’ve officially gone off the deep end.

What did I say there that was crazy or incorrect? Or was it just easier to be dismissive than to face the truth?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 26, 2020, 09:16:48 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 26, 2020, 08:34:03 PM

Wait!?!?!?  This whole time Canada has been doing what our CDC is now recommending and they don’t have people dropping dead left and right.

Yeah, we wouldn't have all these dead people if we just didn't test as much.

Well, you have convinced me that you are a troll doing a schtick. Bye.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on August 27, 2020, 08:09:46 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 26, 2020, 08:20:26 PM

We have done 79 million tests, they’ve done less then 5.

Calm down.

I am calm. Their positivity rate is also lower than ours. Figure it out.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on August 29, 2020, 05:08:23 PM

Sturgis biker rally linked to over a hundred COVID-19 cases in at 8 states so far.

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/multiple-states-report-covid-19-cases-linked-sturgis/story?id=72621900&id=72621900&__twitter_impression=true

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on August 29, 2020, 07:29:27 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on August 29, 2020, 05:08:23 PM

Sturgis biker rally linked to over a hundred COVID-19 cases in at 8 states so far.

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/multiple-states-report-covid-19-cases-linked-sturgis/story?id=72621900&id=72621900&__twitter_impression=true

You have to scroll down a bit, but 46 have been identified so far in Minnesota alone. Two are currently hospitalized, one in intensive care. That only includes people who were actually at the rally, and not people to whom they may have spread the virus when they came home.

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/08/29/latest-on-covid19-in-mn

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 31, 2020, 11:43:26 AM

Definitely the most interesting thing I've seen on the interwebs today:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoytko/2020/08/31/herman-cain-tweets-coronavirus-not-that-deadly-despite-having-died-from-it/?fbclid=IwAR3nx-b_gj8vfR51tSJkNmg5rbXBnNrZ45t0kjPxW5A-rmwaAUcn__uVQg8#5a7523ce3c77

Herman Cain continues to speak from beyond the grave through his Twitter account, with a now-deleted tweet claiming that coronavirus is “not as deadly” as “mainstream media” made it out to be, despite Cain dying from COVID-19 weeks after attending a rally for President Trump—and raising questions about Twitter policies for deceased account holders.

Only in 'Murica!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on August 31, 2020, 12:53:36 PM

Wow.

The Twitter account of recently deceased Herman Cain, who died from complications related to COVID-19, tweeted then later deleted a link to an article suggesting COVID-19 isn't as deadly as first thought. The Forbes headline below says it all:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoytko/2020/08/31/herman-cain-tweets-coronavirus-not-that-deadly-despite-having-died-from-it/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on August 31, 2020, 01:01:31 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on August 31, 2020, 12:53:36 PM

Wow.

The Twitter account of recently deceased Herman Cain, who died from complications related to COVID-19, tweeted then later deleted a link to an article suggesting COVID-19 isn't as deadly as first thought. The Forbes headline below says it all:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoytko/2020/08/31/herman-cain-tweets-coronavirus-not-that-deadly-despite-having-died-from-it/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

I have a old friend who is basically Alt-Right,  QAnon,  conspiracy theorist sort.  He believes COVID is basically another flu that is being used by various governments to control their people.  I was talking to a common friend that said if he lay dying in the hospital from COVID he would still be denying it.

I have found this in my stock picking.  When I am wrong my absolute refusal to close the position has cost me thousands in unneeded losses.

Humans don't deal very well with being wrong.  They would rather die.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on August 31, 2020, 01:23:03 PM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on August 31, 2020, 01:01:31 PM

I have a old friend who is basically Alt-Right,  QAnon,  consipracy theorist sort.  He believes COVID is basically another flu that is being used by various governments to control their people.  I was talking to a common friend that said if he lay dying in the hospital from COVID he would still be denying it.

I have found this in my stock picking.  When I am wrong my absolute refusal to close the position has cost me thousands in unneeded losses.

Humans don't deal very well with being wrong.  They would rather die.

Well, he did die and apparently dying wasn't enough.

I would agree that for some/many, being correct or not admitting being wrong is a challenge. It again is wrongly perceived as a sign of weakness as opposed to strength. And this goes back to childhood for some people, not learning that it is okay to be wrong, to change your opinion based on more experience, more facts etc ...for others change or admitting being wrong about something is a part of normal daily life.

You can add gamblers who lose and chase instead of having boundaries or limits, walking away or even not engaging in the first place.

Wanting to be strong without understanding what makes someone strong.

Even personal death isn't enough for some to acknowledge being wrong. They need to be wrong from the grave too.

And the whole personal power/$/gain for knowingly having/pushing wrong opinions thing is a whole other factor too.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 31, 2020, 01:42:13 PM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on August 31, 2020, 01:01:31 PM

I have a old friend who is basically Alt-Right,  QAnon,  consipracy theorist sort.  He believes COVID is basically another flu that is being used by various governments to control their people.  I was talking to a common friend that said if he lay dying in the hospital from COVID he would still be denying it.

I have found this in my stock picking.  When I am wrong my absolute refusal to close the position has cost me thousands in unneeded losses.

Humans don't deal very well with being wrong.  They would rather die.

Excellent analogy, Dano. I became a better investor when I learned how to sell my losers and move on. It's not as easy as it sounds! I still hold a couple that I've been waiting on forever, but they are fundamentally sound companies so I'll wait a little longer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 01, 2020, 08:16:10 AM

From the NYT, a sobering look at how poorly the U.S. has done containing the virus and its deadly consequences ...

(https://ecp.yusercontent.com/mail?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic01.nyt.com%2Fimages%2F2020%2F09%2F01%2Fmultimedia%2F01-MORNING-POPVDEATHS_sub2%2F01-MORNING-POPVDEATHS_sub2-articleLarge.png&t=1598965546&ymreqid=3c8d0d78-3338-e941-1c43-fd0702013500&sig=aMvRKupzxfPXLmLELbnGpQ--~D)

Here’s a jarring thought experiment: If the United States had done merely an average job of fighting the coronavirus — if the U.S. accounted for the same share of virus deaths as it did global population — how many fewer Americans would have died?

The answer: about 145,000.

That’s a large majority of the country’s 183,000 confirmed coronavirus-related deaths.

No other country looks as bad by this measure. The U.S. accounts for 4 percent of the world’s population, and for 22 percent of confirmed Covid-19 deaths. It is one of the many signs that the Trump administration has done a poorer job of controlling the virus than dozens of other governments around the world.

The specific numbers are only estimates, of course. They are based on virus statistics that are unavoidably incomplete. Most scientists believe the real U.S. death toll is higher than the official numbers indicate, and undercounting of deaths may be even greater in some other countries.

After the U.S., Brazil and Mexico have the next largest gaps between population share and official death share. They are also countries with less advanced medical systems, where some experts think the actual death toll is vastly higher than the official one. If that’s right, the true gaps in Brazil and Mexico may be as large as the U.S. gap.

But no other affluent country has nearly so big a gap. Canada and several European countries each account for a greater percentage of deaths than population, yet the differences aren’t nearly as severe as in the U.S.

And some countries, like Australia and South Korea, have a positive version of the gap. Japan is home to 1.7 percent of the global population but less than 0.2 percent of deaths. An additional 12,000 Japanese residents would not be alive if the country had merely an average death rate.


Even if one believes that the likes of Russia, China and Iran are significantly underreporting their deaths, it's still a horrific failure here in the U.S. Not the kind of "winning" anybody wants.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 01, 2020, 09:47:51 AM

Yeah, those are pretty sobering numbers, 82.

And while I firmly believe that Russia, China, India et al are dramatically underreporting, I also believe the US' numbers are artificially low. All you need to look at are the positivity rates (15%+ in an appalling number of states) to know that we are missing huge numbers of cases, either through negligence or willful malfeasance. And here's an especially scary number: the positivity rate in SD is currently at 23%. Just think of all the places those Sturgis geniuses are spreading the virus.

Even here in MN where we have a relatively progressive governor and populace, positivity rates have gradually increased from under 5% a few weeks ago to nearly 10% now. A failure in nearly all states, red and blue alike. The only notable exceptions are in the NY/NJ/CT region and upper New England, where rates are under 2%.

https://www.covidexitstrategy.org

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 01, 2020, 10:10:08 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 01, 2020, 09:47:51 AM

The only notable exceptions are in the NY/NJ/CT region and upper New England, where rates are under 2%.

Of course, in the NY/NJ/CT region, they killed off their old-timers early in the game.

Seriously, these are sad times. Incredible that some folks - including our alleged national leader - think it's just swell to hold super-spreader events. Herman Cain and others like him died for absolutely nothing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on September 01, 2020, 10:15:00 AM

I saw Connecticut is at like .75%.

Danbury, CT shot up to 7% recently and they contract traced a few locations in town that seem to be the culprits.  The Republican mayor and our Democrat Governor were in lockstep in shutting some things down and re-implementing some restrictions in the Danbury area only.

   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 01, 2020, 10:30:43 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on September 01, 2020, 10:15:00 AM

I saw Connecticut is at like .75%.

Danbury, CT shot up to 7% recently and they contract traced a few locations in town that seem to be the culprits.  The Republican mayor and our Democrat Governor were in lockstep in shutting some things down and re-implementing some restrictions in the Danbury area only.

I hope the trend continues.  We had upward pressure due to UCONN/YALE re-entry plus Danbury like you said.  Cases were up two weeks straight, but went back down again Monday (which represented a 3-day period, so a good sign).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 01, 2020, 11:59:42 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on September 01, 2020, 10:15:00 AM

I saw Connecticut is at like .75%.

Danbury, CT shot up to 7% recently and they contract traced a few locations in town that seem to be the culprits.  The Republican mayor and our Democrat Governor were in lockstep in shutting some things down and re-implementing some restrictions in the Danbury area only.

   

I don't know if you are from Danbury, but if so, check out the John Oliver bit from Sunday.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on September 01, 2020, 12:16:55 PM

Quote from: Jockey on September 01, 2020, 11:59:42 AM

I don't know if you are from Danbury, but if so, check out the John Oliver bit from Sunday.

That's been statewide news. 
John Oliver will make a sizeable donation to local charities if they name the sewage treatment plant after him after the mayor said it tongue-in-cheek.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 01, 2020, 05:07:36 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 01, 2020, 10:30:43 AM

I hope the trend continues.  We had upward pressure due to UCONN/YALE re-entry plus Danbury like you said.  Cases were up two weeks straight, but went back down again Monday (which represented a 3-day period, so a good sign).

A question for you, Frenn's.

Do you think the daily data on cases is relevant any more? Is it giving us a true picture since fewer people are being tested?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 01, 2020, 05:29:56 PM

Quote from: Jockey on September 01, 2020, 05:07:36 PM

A question for you, Frenn's.

Do you think the daily data on cases is relevant any more? Is it giving us a true picture since fewer people are being tested?

We have more tests in CT.  So it’s relevant for our state. 

Edit: I should add that my statement is true overall.  But the weekend comps I referenced look to have testing down week to week.  So could be a bad conclusion as it could be less tests run at a still low positivity rate.  But by in large we are still watching cases, hospitalizations, positivity rate and deaths daily.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 01, 2020, 07:03:40 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 01, 2020, 05:29:56 PM

We have more tests in CT.  So it’s relevant for our state. 

Edit: I should add that my statement is true overall.  But the weekend comps I referenced look to have testing down week to week.  So could be a bad conclusion as it could be less tests run at a still low positivity rate.  But by in large we are still watching cases, hospitalizations, positivity rate and deaths daily.

The reason I asked is because there is such a wide variation of cases in many places. Some can be explained by the day of the week, but I have been watching hospitalizations, positivity rates, and deaths rather than zeroing in on cases.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on September 01, 2020, 07:17:14 PM

https://elemental.medium.com/a-supercomputer-analyzed-covid-19-and-an-interesting-new-theory-has-emerged-31cb8eba9d63

If already posted, apologies. Thought this was an interesting read.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 01, 2020, 07:24:37 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on September 01, 2020, 07:17:14 PM

https://elemental.medium.com/a-supercomputer-analyzed-covid-19-and-an-interesting-new-theory-has-emerged-31cb8eba9d63

If already posted, apologies. Thought this was an interesting read.

I haven’t seen this yet.  Interesting if they can start testing some of this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on September 01, 2020, 07:54:23 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on September 01, 2020, 07:17:14 PM

https://elemental.medium.com/a-supercomputer-analyzed-covid-19-and-an-interesting-new-theory-has-emerged-31cb8eba9d63

If already posted, apologies. Thought this was an interesting read.

I read that earlier today.    Interesting hypothesis.     Keep sciencing.   Interesting that there is already a list of medicines that treat the Bradykinin.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on September 01, 2020, 08:11:24 PM

Already some interesting results, but obviously a lot more data needed:

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/88076

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 01, 2020, 09:06:43 PM

Quote from: Jockey on September 01, 2020, 07:03:40 PM

The reason I asked is because there is such a wide variation of cases in many places. Some can be explained by the day of the week, but I have been watching hospitalizations, positivity rates, and deaths rather than zeroing in on cases.

I have been focusing on a combination of new cases and positivity rate. To me, that tells the story of the spread.

Hospitalizations and deaths are of course very relevant too, but they trail new cases by a few weeks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on September 02, 2020, 07:44:10 AM

Quote from: Jockey on September 01, 2020, 07:03:40 PM

The reason I asked is because there is such a wide variation of cases in many places. Some can be explained by the day of the week, but I have been watching hospitalizations, positivity rates, and deaths rather than zeroing in on cases.

Jockey,
FWIW - Statewide hospitalization totals here have been in the 50 to 60 range for awhile. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on September 02, 2020, 10:04:45 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on September 01, 2020, 08:11:24 PM

Already some interesting results, but obviously a lot more data needed:

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/88076

Personally I'm intrigued by this one. This drug came up in some of my own research/screens as a possible therapeutic.

Also, more data today showing a likely connection between the ACE2/Bradykinin axis.

https://elemental.medium.com/a-supercomputer-analyzed-covid-19-and-an-interesting-new-theory-has-emerged-31cb8eba9d63

edit: Sorry Lenny, didn't see your post. Been swamped lately, didn't mean to repost.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 02, 2020, 01:55:54 PM

We are beginning to see the effects of the Sturgis rally...and the SD State Fair begins on Thursday.

Weeks after Sturgis motorcycle rally, first COVID-19 death reported as cases accelerate in Midwest

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/weeks-after-sturgis-motorcycle-rally-first-covid-19-death-reported-n1239088

Some 260 cases across 11 states had already been recorded before the first death linked to the Sturgis bash, a sometimes raucous event that ran from Aug. 7 through 16 during which the bars were packed and where there was barely any attempt made at social distancing, let alone wearing masks.

Since then, the number of coronavirus cases have doubled in South Dakota and there has been an uptick in new cases being reported in neighboring North Dakota, Iowa, Minnesota and Nebraska as well, the latest NBC News Digital figures show.

The first death tied to the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally is reported in Minnesota.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/02/world/covid-19-coronavirus.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage#link-76345029

South Dakota as a whole has reported more than 2,000 new cases in the past week, setting single-day records several times, according to a New York Times database.

Despite the surge of cases in South Dakota, Gov. Kristi Noem has said she has no plans to tighten restrictions in the state or issue a mask order.

“I won’t be changing my recommendations that I can see in the near future,” Ms. Noem, a Republican, said at the Sioux Falls Rotary Club on Monday. “I think this where we expected to be. None of this is a surprise, and we will continue to evaluate and see what the future looks like.”

Another mass event, the South Dakota State Fair, is scheduled to open in Huron, S.D., on Thursday and last through Labor Day. “Exposure to Covid-19 is an inherent risk in any public location where people are present,” the fair warns on its website, adding, “By visiting the South Dakota State Fairgrounds, you voluntarily assume all risks related to exposure to Covid-19.”

---------------

Surging cases, a clear example of what can go wrong at a mass gathering, another mass gathering coming up, and no mask mandate. What could possibly go wrong?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 02, 2020, 01:59:50 PM

Quote from: forgetful on September 02, 2020, 10:04:45 AM

Personally I'm intrigued by this one. This drug came up in some of my own research/screens as a possible therapeutic.

Also, more data today showing a likely connection between the ACE2/Bradykinin axis.

https://elemental.medium.com/a-supercomputer-analyzed-covid-19-and-an-interesting-new-theory-has-emerged-31cb8eba9d63

Yeah, Lenny posted that article a little while ago.  SUPER interesting stuff.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 02, 2020, 08:31:46 PM

New top trump Covid advisor (from Fox News, of course) is calling for herd immunity in the US. WH is considering it. At a 1% mortality rate, that would amount to over 2,000,000 deaths.

With so many scandals at the same time, this isn’t being covered - despite the fact that its implementation could kill 2 million people.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Big Papi on September 02, 2020, 08:52:07 PM

Antibodies present 4 months after infection in Iceland study bodes well for vaccines.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/large-covid-19-study-iceland-092603950.html

https://www.yahoo.com/news/covid-19-antibodies-present-patients-213805521.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on September 02, 2020, 09:21:04 PM

"Sent Home to Die"

New Orleans, Louisiana.

https://www.propublica.org/article/sent-home-to-die/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 02, 2020, 10:11:38 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on September 02, 2020, 09:21:04 PM

"Sent Home to Die"

New Orleans, Louisiana.

https://www.propublica.org/article/sent-home-to-die/amp?__twitter_impression=true

The interviews revealed a striking pattern: Before they died, about two dozen patients first sought care at a hospital, which then discharged them, in many cases sending them home to die with hospice care. All were Black

That’s right. ALL were black.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on September 03, 2020, 06:36:12 AM

Quote from: Jockey on September 02, 2020, 10:11:38 PM

The interviews revealed a striking pattern: Before they died, about two dozen patients first sought care at a hospital, which then discharged them, in many cases sending them home to die with hospice care. All were Black

That’s right. ALL were black.

And yet people are surprised at this administration’s stance on the pandemic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 03, 2020, 11:24:52 AM

"They are dying. That's right. It is what it is."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 03, 2020, 12:01:04 PM

I take no responsibility at all.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on September 03, 2020, 12:03:03 PM

I'm halfway through this read in the September copy of The Atlantic.
Very scathing and very detailed on everything the Trump Administration has done wrong which is basically everything.
(A long read.)

---

How the Pandemic Defeated America
A virus has brought the world’s most powerful country to its knees.
Story by Ed Yong
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/09/coronavirus-american-failure/614191/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 03, 2020, 02:19:19 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on August 20, 2020, 03:05:31 PM

Sorry, I’m not meaning in his case, I’m meaning like people getting myocarditis is something specific to COVID when it’s not uncommon in other viral/bacterial situations. Close to half a million cases of myocarditis/pericarditis in the US annually. That’s all

Well this seems crazy high but I guess it could explain why Big Ten made their call.

https://www.centredaily.com/sports/college/penn-state-university/psu-football/article245448050.html (https://www.centredaily.com/sports/college/penn-state-university/psu-football/article245448050.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 03, 2020, 02:27:56 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 03, 2020, 02:19:19 PM

Well this seems crazy high but I guess it could explain why Big Ten made their call.

https://www.centredaily.com/sports/college/penn-state-university/psu-football/article245448050.html (https://www.centredaily.com/sports/college/penn-state-university/psu-football/article245448050.html)

We have had multiple athletes in sports recover from Covid, and it doesn't seem like this is a major issue at all.  I think the B10 was too hasty with its decision.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on September 03, 2020, 03:11:03 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on September 03, 2020, 02:27:56 PM

We have had multiple athletes in sports recover from Covid, and it doesn't seem like this is a major issue at all.  I think the B10 was too hasty with its decision.

It’s not the doctors that scare the Big Ten, it’s the lawsuits.  If one kid dies from a heart condition that was exasperated from Covid, everyone will be in court.  Unlike professional sports where a union forged a working agreement with the leagues, the universities can’t do the same because of the need to protect amateurism.  All it takes is one kid and the whole thing will blow up

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 03, 2020, 03:14:39 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on September 03, 2020, 02:27:56 PM

We have had multiple athletes in sports recover from Covid, and it doesn't seem like this is a major issue at all.  I think the B10 was too hasty with its decision.

So you think a 30-35% rate of myocarditis wasn't worthy of a decision to postpone?

For all we know, some of the 'recovered' athletes may have (currently) asymptomatic heart or lung damage that was never diagnosed, and PSU might have found something that others didn't think to look for because they were asymptomatic.

And remember - something that's asymptomatic today might become life-treating down the road....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on September 03, 2020, 03:20:53 PM

This is consistent with other studies about long term affects for both symptomatic and asymptomatic COVID patients.   All it really is is another blow to the lie that 'Rona doesn't affect the young.

This has to be the stake in the heart of the B1G's attempt to play football this fall.

It will only take one 350 lb lineman to drop dead.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on September 03, 2020, 03:58:36 PM

Myocarditis can result from literally any viral infection, not just Covid-19. So the question is, does Myocarditis occur more, less, or same for Covid as it does for other viral infections. The fact that it occurs with Covid is almost a non-story. If it occurs more, there is concern, same or less just make sure you are testing for Covid and if you are positive follow up a cardiologist before allowing the player to return to the field.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 03, 2020, 04:25:24 PM

Quote from: mu03eng on September 03, 2020, 03:58:36 PM

Myocarditis can result from literally any viral infection, not just Covid-19. So the question is, does Myocarditis occur more, less, or same for Covid as it does for other viral infections. The fact that it occurs with Covid is almost a non-story. If it occurs more, there is concern, same or less just make sure you are testing for Covid and if you are positive follow up a cardiologist before allowing the player to return to the field.

I agree with this completely other than ‘this is a non story’. Personally I thought 35% seems almost unrealistically high.  But it makes sense to figure it out before  plowing ahead. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu03eng on September 03, 2020, 04:38:57 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 03, 2020, 04:25:24 PM

I agree with this completely other than ‘this is a non story’. Personally I thought 35% seems almost unrealistically high.  But it makes sense to figure it out before  plowing ahead.

Yeah, let me rephrase....its a wildly incomplete story without other information

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 03, 2020, 04:45:41 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 03, 2020, 04:25:24 PM

I agree with this completely other than ‘this is a non story’. Personally I thought 35% seems almost unrealistically high.  But it makes sense to figure it out before  plowing ahead.

Agreed. It is definitely a story. Whether it’s 35% or 15%, it still seems to be a lot higher than with many viral illnesses. And the fact that it might occur even in asymptomatic patients is particularly frightening.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on September 03, 2020, 05:55:19 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 03, 2020, 04:45:41 PM

Agreed. It is definitely a story. Whether it’s 35% or 15%, it still seems to be a lot higher than with many viral illnesses. And the fact that it might occur even in asymptomatic patients is particularly frightening.

But again, not exceptional.   A friend of mine had myocarditis he got from a cold, not a particularly nasty cold, just some sniffles and congestion for a week that could have been allergies.  But he had an already scheduled physical a week or two later and it came up during his exam and was diagnosed.

Again, its potentially very serious and not something to mess around with, but its presentation as it relates to COVID is nothing out of the norm and keeps being presented with incomplete or conjecture based conclusions.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 03, 2020, 06:12:39 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on September 03, 2020, 05:55:19 PM

But again, not exceptional.   A friend of mine had myocarditis he got from a cold, not a particularly nasty cold, just some sniffles and congestion for a week that could have been allergies.  But he had an already scheduled physical a week or two later and it came up during his exam and was diagnosed.

Again, its potentially very serious and not something to mess around with, but its presentation as it relates to COVID is nothing out of the norm and keeps being presented with incomplete or conjecture based conclusions.

The interesting thing about the virus is that other than it’s transmission rate and  difficulty to detect spreaders, much of this virus impacts are not unique to being ‘a virus’.  Including what’s been discovered on immunity, reinfection, etc.  all predictable.

Yet here we are 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 03, 2020, 06:13:18 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on September 03, 2020, 05:55:19 PM

But again, not exceptional.   A friend of mine had myocarditis he got from a cold, not a particularly nasty cold, just some sniffles and congestion for a week that could have been allergies.  But he had an already scheduled physical a week or two later and it came up during his exam and was diagnosed.

Again, its potentially very serious and not something to mess around with, but its presentation as it relates to COVID is nothing out of the norm and keeps being presented with incomplete or conjecture based conclusions.

Agreed...but given the potential seriousness, it seems we ought to know before we get back to discretionary things like sports and such. And given some of the relatively unique stuff to this virus like asymptomatic spread (and asymptomatic lung and myocardial damage), all the more reason for caution.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on September 03, 2020, 06:50:38 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 03, 2020, 06:13:18 PM

Agreed...but given the potential seriousness, it seems we ought to know before we get back to discretionary things like sports and such. And given some of the relatively unique stuff to this virus like asymptomatic spread (and asymptomatic lung and myocardial damage), all the more reason for caution.

Also, FWIW, this story has turned out to be completely false, walked back by the doctor, and no PSU athletes diagnosed with COVID have been diagnosed with myocarditis.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 03, 2020, 08:24:50 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on September 03, 2020, 06:50:38 PM

Also, FWIW, this story has turned out to be completely false, walked back by the doctor, and no PSU athletes diagnosed with COVID have been diagnosed with myocarditis.

If true, it sounds like the doctor needs to have his license looked into. I’m just going on the information we have available, like everyone else.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on September 03, 2020, 09:08:49 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on September 03, 2020, 06:50:38 PM

Also, FWIW, this story has turned out to be completely false, walked back by the doctor, and no PSU athletes diagnosed with COVID have been diagnosed with myocarditis.

Completely false? The doctor misquoted the percentages he heard via word of mouth before a study was published. Unless you disagree with the published study?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/09/03/big-ten-coronavirus-myocarditis/

15% of student athletes that tested positive for covid had inflamed heart muscles. Most of those student-athletes had mild to no symptoms.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 03, 2020, 09:31:07 PM

Quote from: Skatastrophy on September 03, 2020, 09:08:49 PM

Completely false? The doctor misquoted the percentages he heard via word of mouth before a study was published. Unless you disagree with the published study?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/09/03/big-ten-coronavirus-myocarditis/

15% of student athletes that tested positive for covid had inflamed heart muscles. Most of those student-athletes had mild to no symptoms.

Thanks for a more balanced and complete view of the facts. Unfortunately, that has been difficult to ascertain lately.

The deaths are the most obvious risk, but cardiac or pulmonary inflammation in asymptomatic patients is awfully scary as well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on September 03, 2020, 09:48:49 PM

Quote from: Skatastrophy on September 03, 2020, 09:08:49 PM

Completely false? The doctor misquoted the percentages he heard via word of mouth before a study was published. Unless you disagree with the published study?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/09/03/big-ten-coronavirus-myocarditis/

15% of student athletes that tested positive for covid had inflamed heart muscles. Most of those student-athletes had mild to no symptoms.

Yes. He stated 30-35% of Big Ten athletes and used “our athletes” speaking as a Penn State employee. In reality it was 15%, none at Penn State, and there was no actual mention of these being B10 athletes. The study is also preliminary and has no mention of sample size. Could literally be 3 out of 20.  He made a definite and broad statement and had not only his statistics wildly incorrect, but the specific demo incorrect.

That’s like me being a Toyota dealer and saying 30% of all Japanese mid size sedans have a braking defect. When in reality its 15% of all cars tested, and nobody knows what and how many cars have actually been tested.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on September 04, 2020, 09:24:47 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on September 03, 2020, 09:48:49 PM

Yes. He stated 30-35% of Big Ten athletes and used “our athletes” speaking as a Penn State employee. In reality it was 15%, none at Penn State, and there was no actual mention of these being B10 athletes. The study is also preliminary and has no mention of sample size. Could literally be 3 out of 20.  He made a definite and broad statement and had not only his statistics wildly incorrect, but the specific demo incorrect.

> no actual mention of these being B10 athletes
> He made a definite and broad statement and had not only his statistics wildly incorrect, but the specific demo incorrect.

The bulk of the study is Ohio State athletes. - https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/23/sports/ncaafootball/college-football-myocarditis-coronavirus.html

I agree that the study isn't really worth much until it's published, but he wasn't talking completely out of his ass.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 07, 2020, 07:42:47 PM

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/500000-covid19-math-mistake-panic/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

https://mobile.twitter.com/ClimateAudit/status/1303024247510503424

Listen to the scientists they said 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️  Boy did we jack this whole thing up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 07, 2020, 08:02:20 PM

That article would hold a lot more water if there weren’t 900k dead in 9 months globally. 

I actually remember the distinctions being called out and clarified by many. Including those out of govt (s Gottleib as an example).

There was no metric error.  Just a bunch of inconsistent policies. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on September 07, 2020, 08:04:21 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 07, 2020, 07:42:47 PM

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/500000-covid19-math-mistake-panic/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

https://mobile.twitter.com/ClimateAudit/status/1303024247510503424

Listen to the scientists they said 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️  Boy did we jack this whole thing up.

Did you really just drop a link to Russian State Controlled TV/Russian Today/RT? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 07, 2020, 08:08:09 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on September 07, 2020, 08:04:21 PM

Did you really just drop a link to Russian State Controlled TV/Russian Today/RT?

Right on cue for this post

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/13/science/putin-russia-disinformation-health-coronavirus.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/13/science/putin-russia-disinformation-health-coronavirus.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on September 07, 2020, 08:30:08 PM

Openly participating in a Russian disinformation campaign.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on September 07, 2020, 08:32:07 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 07, 2020, 08:02:20 PM

That article would hold a lot more water if there weren’t 900k dead in 9 months globally. 

I actually remember the distinctions being called out and clarified by many. Including those out of govt (s Gottleib as an example).

There was no metric error.  Just a bunch of inconsistent policies.

Yup, this reads as another attempt to discredit Fauci.  I mean, it''s obviously an error, and he obviously KNEW the difference, but it wouldn't have changed stay at home recommendations (and still shouldn't...)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 07, 2020, 08:34:56 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on September 07, 2020, 08:04:21 PM

Did you really just drop a link to Russian State Controlled TV/Russian Today/RT?

https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/7ACD87D8FD2237285EB667BB28DCC6E9/S1935789320002980a.pdf/public_health_lessons_learned_from_biases_in_coronavirus_mortality_overestimation.pdf

Data is all the same my man, maybe this source will be more to your liking.  And I’m not arguing the legitimacy of Covid being an actual pandemic, I’ve been arguing from day 1 it’s been a massive overreaction and the lockdowns (past the initial 15-30 days) were counterproductive and as the dust continues to settle its starting to appear that way.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on September 07, 2020, 08:36:39 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 07, 2020, 08:34:56 PM

lockdowns (past the initial 15-30 days) were counterproductive and as the dust continues to settle its starting to appear that way.

Um.  Nope.  But it's obvious you'd rather believe your own made up version of the story.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 07, 2020, 08:38:06 PM

Quote from: tower912 on September 07, 2020, 08:30:08 PM

Openly participating in a Russian disinformation campaign.

Can you pin to any disinformation in the link?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 07, 2020, 08:38:52 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on September 07, 2020, 08:36:39 PM

Um.  Nope.  But it's obvious you'd rather believe your own made up version of the story.

Ummmm, nope....you’re wrong.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 07, 2020, 08:39:11 PM

What’s a lockdown?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 07, 2020, 08:42:51 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on September 07, 2020, 08:36:39 PM

Um.  Nope.  But it's obvious you'd rather believe your own made up version of the story.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aier.org/article/experience-from-other-countries-show-lockdowns-dont-work/amp/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 07, 2020, 08:44:11 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on September 07, 2020, 08:36:39 PM

Um.  Nope.  But it's obvious you'd rather believe your own made up version of the story.

Would love to see the evidence suggesting it worked?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on September 07, 2020, 08:51:54 PM

You're not very good at google are you?  Or only trust RT (Russian Times).COM lol

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-lockdowns-successful-evidence-from-around-the-world-2020-4

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 07, 2020, 09:05:31 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on September 07, 2020, 08:51:54 PM

You're not very good at google are you?  Or only trust RT (Russian Times).COM lol

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-lockdowns-successful-evidence-from-around-the-world-2020-4

An article from 5 months ago?  There must be something more recent then that?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on September 07, 2020, 09:59:16 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 07, 2020, 09:05:31 PM

An article from 5 months ago?  There must be something more recent then that?

You're really that bad at google?  This guys makes a case about the economic impact and how lockdowns should be implemented, but agrees they've worked to stamp out the virus.  From...3 hours ago.
https://theconversation.com/the-modelling-behind-melbournes-extended-city-wide-lockdown-is-problematic-145681

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 07, 2020, 10:17:22 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on September 07, 2020, 09:59:16 PM

You're really that bad at google?  This guys makes a case about the economic impact and how lockdowns should be implemented, but agrees they've worked to stamp out the virus.  From...3 hours ago.
https://theconversation.com/the-modelling-behind-melbournes-extended-city-wide-lockdown-is-problematic-145681

That must have taken some googling on your part to find an author in Toronto talking about how localized lockdowns in Australia have worked and should now be relaxed as your evidence for why extended lockdowns are good (I agreed, as stated above, on the initial 15-30 day lockdown)🤔. So essentially this guy is arguing my case??

Either way if you and Trump want to die on this hill of him saving millions of lives by locking down, that’s fine.  I just disagree with it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on September 07, 2020, 10:20:59 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 07, 2020, 10:17:22 PM

Either way if you and Trump want to die on this hill of him saving millions of lives by locking down

Trump locked the country down?

The US had sporadic state-level stay at home orders, and those did save a bunch of lives.   Some should have actually implemented some.  Many shouldn't have been lifted so early.

edit:

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 07, 2020, 10:17:22 PM

That must have taken some googling on your part to find an author in Toronto talking about how localized lockdowns in Australia have worked and should now be relaxed as your evidence for why extended lockdowns are good (I agreed, as stated above, on the initial 15-30 day lockdown)🤔. So essentially this guy is arguing my case??

Actually it took a couple seconds in google news for "lockdowns work" limiting results to the last week.  The guy used to work at the University of Melbourne.  And he is saying lockdowns should be more local.  Not arguing for shorter lockdowns.  No surprise you didn't read though.

You also asked:

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 07, 2020, 08:44:11 PM

Would love to see the evidence suggesting it worked?

I provided.  His charts are compelling.  You prefer russia today.com though

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on September 08, 2020, 08:22:46 AM

Sturgis Motorcycle Rally generate d public health costs of $12.2 Billion.

250,000 cases are believed to be linked to the rally, roughly 19% of all national cases between Aug 2 and Sept 2.


https://www.iza.org/publications/dp/13670

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 08, 2020, 09:06:35 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on September 08, 2020, 08:22:46 AM

Sturgis Motorcycle Rally generate d public health costs of $12.2 Billion.

250,000 cases are believed to be linked to the rally, roughly 19% of all national cases between Aug 2 and Sept 2.


https://www.iza.org/publications/dp/13670

I remember when their party was the “party of personal responsibility”.  Now it’s the “take care of me” party”.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on September 08, 2020, 12:29:23 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on September 07, 2020, 10:20:59 PM

I provided.  His charts are compelling.  You prefer russia today.com though

Pretty clear he's a troll.

Trolly troll gonna troll.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 08, 2020, 02:13:31 PM

I wasn't sure it would be best to post thin in the 'masks' or 'vaccines' thread...so decided just to put it here in the main COVID thread.

A New Theory Asks: Could a Mask Be a Crude ‘Vaccine’?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/08/health/covid-masks-immunity.html

Still unproven - and it probably never will be, because you can't set up a proper study to test it - but some scientists are suggesting that masks might sometimes let just enough of the virus through so that you don't get a full-blown infection, but you do generate an immune response.

I'm guessing that - if it ever happens at all - it is mostly a freak occurrence. Kind of a perfect storm of the right viral load with the right person (in terms of immune health and the absence of significant risk factors). Still, an interesting theory.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 08, 2020, 02:44:31 PM

https://mobile.twitter.com/andrewbostom/status/1303401597221957640

🙏🤞🙏 these numbers stay consistent.  Protect the vulnerable!!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on September 08, 2020, 02:45:43 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on September 08, 2020, 08:22:46 AM

Sturgis Motorcycle Rally generate d public health costs of $12.2 Billion.

250,000 cases are believed to be linked to the rally, roughly 19% of all national cases between Aug 2 and Sept 2.

I would take this with an enormous grain of salt.

https://www.iza.org/publications/dp/13670

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on September 08, 2020, 03:22:49 PM

A Smashmouth concert is well worth it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on September 08, 2020, 03:26:43 PM

Quote from: ZaLiN on September 08, 2020, 03:22:49 PM

A Smashmouth concert is well worth it.

I really hope everyone there belted out the "I ain't the sharpest tool in the shed" line

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 08, 2020, 03:38:10 PM

Question.  What does taking something with an enormous grain of salt mean.

The small size of the a normal grain of salt would make sense to dismiss. But if the grain is enormous, how can you do anything but pay attention to it. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 08, 2020, 03:55:38 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 08, 2020, 03:38:10 PM

Question.  What does taking something with an enormous grain of salt mean.

The small size of the a normal grain of salt would make sense to dismiss. But if the grain is enormous, how can you do anything but pay attention to it.

According to legend, the phrase originated because something would be ‘easier to swallow’ with the taste of salt. Given that most Americans eat a lot more salt than we ought to, I suspect a big grain of salt would be necessary to have the same effect as a small grain would have in the 17th century.

https://www.bloomsbury-international.com/student-ezone/idiom-of-the-week/1326-take-it-with-a-grain-of-salt/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on September 08, 2020, 04:08:02 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 08, 2020, 02:44:31 PM

https://mobile.twitter.com/andrewbostom/status/1303401597221957640

🙏🤞🙏 these numbers stay consistent.  Protect the vulnerable!!!

Well I know for a fact the numbers in that tweet are false, as I am aware of students at two of those institutions that have been hospitalized.

I think they are getting their numbers from the fact that most universities to not report hospitalizations of students, and those that do, are reliant on the students self reporting that they are in the hospital, most of whom would not do so.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 08, 2020, 04:19:28 PM

Quote from: forgetful on September 08, 2020, 04:08:02 PM

Well I know for a fact the numbers in that tweet are false, as I am aware of students at two of those institutions that have been hospitalized.

I think they are getting their numbers from the fact that most universities to not report hospitalizations of students, and those that do, are reliant on the students self reporting that they are in the hospital, most of whom would not do so.

Yeah, I don't know how he would get those numbers.  For instance, here is Ohio State's dashboard.

https://safeandhealthy.osu.edu/dashboard

So he got the 1,500 number correct.  Where does he come up with the zero hospitalizations?  There is no stat on this dashboard. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 08, 2020, 04:23:23 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on September 08, 2020, 04:19:28 PM

Yeah, I don't know how he would get those numbers.  For instance, here is Ohio State's dashboard.

https://safeandhealthy.osu.edu/dashboard

So he got the 1,500 number correct.  Where does he come up with the zero hospitalizations?  There is no stat on this dashboard.

My guess: he can’t find any indication that there have been hospitalizations, so is simply assuming that there aren’t any. Solid scientific method....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on September 08, 2020, 04:41:16 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 08, 2020, 04:23:23 PM

My guess: he can’t find any indication that there have been hospitalizations, so is simply assuming that there aren’t any. Solid scientific method....

Except he didn't even try to look hard.

https://www.kwch.com/2020/07/30/k-state-student-hospitalized-with-covid-19-shares-story/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 08, 2020, 04:54:45 PM

Quote from: forgetful on September 08, 2020, 04:41:16 PM

Except he didn't even try to look hard.

https://www.kwch.com/2020/07/30/k-state-student-hospitalized-with-covid-19-shares-story/

I’m guessing this link you posted is talking about the student referenced at the bottom of the graph I posted.  Never said no college kid has been or will be hospitalized moving forward but I am certain that more college aged kids will be hospitalized for alcohol poisoning or other related partying injuries then they will be for Covid. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 08, 2020, 04:57:11 PM

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Also significant significant drop in deaths the last few days.  Might be reporting delays from the holiday weekend, will be interesting to see how this trend plays out over next week or so.  🙏👍🙏👍🤞🙏🤞

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 08, 2020, 05:08:46 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on September 08, 2020, 04:19:28 PM

Yeah, I don't know how he would get those numbers.  For instance, here is Ohio State's dashboard.

https://safeandhealthy.osu.edu/dashboard

So he got the 1,500 number correct.  Where does he come up with the zero hospitalizations?  There is no stat on this dashboard.

Was digging into that dashboard for THE Ohio St and surprised to see the % positive for both students and employees is lower for this on campus compared to off?

Saving in the controlled environment possibly??

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 08, 2020, 05:43:21 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 08, 2020, 05:08:46 PM

Was digging into that dashboard for THE Ohio St and surprised to see the % positive for both students and employees is lower for this on campus compared to off?

Saving in the controlled environment possibly??

Because they tested everyone.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on September 08, 2020, 05:45:59 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 08, 2020, 04:54:45 PM

I’m guessing this link you posted is talking about the student referenced at the bottom of the graph I posted. 

No, the student in the link I provided was diagnosed, hospitalized, and treated for COVID. She ended up having to have part of her lung removed due to damage caused by COVID. 20 years old and otherwise healthy. Her case went a bit viral, because she was trying to get the word out to other college kids. Her case was not an instance of Kawasaki's, but when a person discounts hospitalizations due to COVID-induced Kawasaki's  as not COVID, they are being intellectually dishonest.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 08, 2020, 06:00:36 PM

Quote from: forgetful on September 08, 2020, 05:45:59 PM

No, the student in the link I provided was diagnosed, hospitalized, and treated for COVID. She ended up having to have part of her lung removed due to damage caused by COVID. 20 years old and otherwise healthy. Her case went a bit viral, because she was trying to get the word out to other college kids. Her case was not an instance of Kawasaki's, but when a person discounts hospitalizations due to COVID-induced Kawasaki's  as not COVID, they are being intellectually dishonest.

Ahhh, didn’t realize you were talking about a case from a couple months ago in the context of Covid and the returning of students to campus.  My bad.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 08, 2020, 06:09:27 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 08, 2020, 06:00:36 PM

Ahhh, didn’t realize you were talking about a case from a couple months ago in the context of Covid and the returning of students to campus.  My bad.

???  These schools are reporting data from further back than the beginning of the semester.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 08, 2020, 06:12:29 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on September 08, 2020, 06:09:27 PM

???  These schools are reporting data from further back than the beginning of the semester.

For students who were enrolled in summer school, living on campus, or how does that work?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 08, 2020, 07:03:27 PM

forgetful....I’ve always valued your input and ability to makes sense of these pretty complex studies.

Have you had a chance to review the sturgis study?  Thoughts?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 08, 2020, 07:48:42 PM

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2770250

More great news!!  What a day!!

Let’s get these kids all back in school full face to face, follow the science my fellow scoopers!! 

Listen to the eXpERts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 08, 2020, 08:31:02 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 08, 2020, 07:48:42 PM

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2770250

More great news!!  What a day!!

Let’s get these kids all back in school full face to face, follow the science my fellow scoopers!! 

Listen to the eXpERts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As long as spread can be controlled, I’m all in. The problem is that it spreads to those to whom it is more deadly. Doesn’t happen as much with flu.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on September 08, 2020, 08:32:32 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on September 08, 2020, 08:31:02 PM

As long as spread can be controlled, I’m all in. The problem is that it spreads to those to whom it is more deadly. Doesn’t happen as much with flu.

You’d think people would understand this by now. But nope!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on September 08, 2020, 08:55:11 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on September 08, 2020, 08:31:02 PM

As long as spread can be controlled, I’m all in. The problem is that it spreads to those to whom it is more deadly. Doesn’t happen as much with flu.

So, if you are in grammar school or high school and live with someone with 2 or co-morbidities, stay home and school virtually. If you are a teacher with 2 or more (or you’re living with someone who fits that description) stay home and teach virtually. Everybody else (vast majority), back in the pool?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 08, 2020, 08:57:34 PM

Quote from: BLM on September 08, 2020, 08:32:32 PM

You’d think people would understand this by now. But nope!

To those that are at kore risk....soooo old people, hopefully they know that by now and are careful when they’re interacting with people outside their own home.

That’s the answer.  Has been for about 5 months, the rest of this is all a pathetic game unfortunately.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 08, 2020, 09:00:52 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on September 08, 2020, 08:55:11 PM

So, if you are in grammar school or high school and live with someone with 2 or co-morbidities, stay home and school virtually. If you are a teacher with 2 or more (or you’re living with someone who fits that description) stay home and teach virtually. Everybody else (vast majority), back in the pool?

Hit the nail on the head Lenny.  They know this though, but don’t care.  It’s not truly about that for them and never has been.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on September 08, 2020, 09:03:18 PM

And what should families who have 2 working parents and can’t afford to have day care or nannies take care of their kids after school do? Don’t send them to grandma or grandpa.

Sometimes people have difficulties you may not.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 08, 2020, 09:07:49 PM

Quote from: BLM on September 08, 2020, 09:03:18 PM

And what should families who have 2 working parents and can’t afford to have day care or nannies take care of their kids after school do? Don’t send them to grandma or grandpa.

Sometimes people have difficulties you may not.

In that scenario you think having the kid stay at home all day is the answer??  I’m not following what you’re trying to say.  Wouldn’t it be easiest for that family to have their kids in school?  Or at least the option?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 08, 2020, 09:17:46 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on September 08, 2020, 08:55:11 PM

So, if you are in grammar school or high school and live with someone with 2 or co-morbidities, stay home and school virtually. If you are a teacher with 2 or more (or you’re living with someone who fits that description) stay home and teach virtually. Everybody else (vast majority), back in the pool?

Why 2 or more co-morbidities?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 08, 2020, 09:21:15 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 08, 2020, 09:17:46 PM

Why 2 or more co-morbidities?

94% of deaths have happened in people with 2+ per CDC

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 08, 2020, 09:25:00 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 08, 2020, 07:48:42 PM

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2770250

More great news!!  What a day!!

Let’s get these kids all back in school full face to face, follow the science my fellow scoopers!! 

Listen to the eXpERts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you read what the authors said the study means?

Meaning  The findings suggest that prevention of both COVID-19 and seasonal influenza in US children is prudent and urgent for the well-being of this population.[/i]

————————-

So if the preventing Covid is “prudent and urgent,“ how do you read that as encouraging parents to send their kids back to school?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 08, 2020, 09:26:02 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 08, 2020, 09:21:15 PM

94% of deaths have happened in people with 2+ per CDC

When are you going to learn that it’s not simply a ‘die/not die’ dichotomy with this illness? There is plenty of really nasty stuff that can happen short of dying.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on September 08, 2020, 09:31:17 PM

"Church Leader Who Blamed Coronavirus on Gay Marriage Contracts COVID-19"

https://www.newsweek.com/patriarch-filaret-coronavirus-gay-marriage-ukraine-1530261?amp=1&__twitter_impression=true

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on September 08, 2020, 09:35:01 PM

"What do young people really have to fear from COVID-19?"



https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/09/what-young-healthy-people-have-fear-covid-19/616087/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 08, 2020, 09:36:56 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 08, 2020, 09:25:00 PM

Did you read what the authors said the study means?

Meaning  The findings suggest that prevention of both COVID-19 and seasonal influenza in US children is prudent and urgent for the well-being of this population.[/i]

————————-

So if the preventing Covid is “prudent and urgent,“ how do you read that as encouraging parents to send their kids back to school?

Since the authors suggest it is both prudent and urgent to protect against Covid and seasonal influenza are you suggesting we should never send our kids back to school during flu season?  If that’s your stance fine.  If your stance is we shouldn’t for Covid but we should for influenza you’re then a hypocrite.  Based off the science of course.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 08, 2020, 09:38:47 PM

The likely posters are all posting very predictably to any sign of good news.  Must be tough to be so deep into your own heads with this. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 08, 2020, 09:38:52 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 08, 2020, 09:36:56 PM

Since the authors suggest it is both prudent and urgent to protect against Covid and seasonal influenza are you suggesting we should never send our kids back to school during flu season?  If that’s your stance fine.  If your stance is we shouldn’t for Covid but we should for influenza you’re then a hypocrite.  Based off the science of course.

We have never had Covid and influenza at the same time before. Understand the context. This is not a normal year.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 08, 2020, 09:40:05 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 08, 2020, 09:38:52 PM

We have never had Covid and influenza at the same time before. Understand the context.

Two viruses that pose next to zero risk to kids happening at the same time.....gulp!!!!!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 08, 2020, 09:44:08 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 08, 2020, 09:40:05 PM

Two viruses that pose next to zero risk to kids happening at the same time.....gulp!!!!!!

Answer the simple question I posed a couple of posts back: If prevention is “prudent and urgent,” how do you interpret that as encouraging parents to send their kids to school?

Just a simple answer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 08, 2020, 09:44:17 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 08, 2020, 09:26:02 PM

When are you going to learn that it’s not simply a ‘die/not die’ dichotomy with this illness? There is plenty of really nasty stuff that can happen short of dying.

And when are you going to learn there is a lot of nasty stuff happening to kids today because of the unnecessary isolation.  The isolation cause a bunch of boomers want to see the grandkids without worrying about the risk of asymptomatic spread. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 08, 2020, 09:47:41 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 08, 2020, 09:44:08 PM

Answer the simple question I posed a couple of posts back: If prevention is “prudent and urgent,” how do you interpret that as encouraging parents to send their kids to school?

Just a simple answer.

Good hygiene, wear a mask, and go to school.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 08, 2020, 09:49:03 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 08, 2020, 09:44:08 PM

Answer the simple question I posed a couple of posts back: If prevention is “prudent and urgent,” how do you interpret that as encouraging parents to send their kids to school?

Just a simple answer.

Even more preventative measures with the mask wearing then what we preach during flu season to combat this duuuaaaalll threat.  You good with that?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 08, 2020, 09:49:11 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 08, 2020, 09:44:17 PM

And when are you going to learn there is a lot of nasty stuff happening to kids today because of the unnecessary isolation.  The isolation cause a bunch of boomers want to see the grandkids without worrying about the risk of asymptomatic spread.

I get it. When are you going to answer the question about the paper that you posted, and which I have asked twice now?

(Hint: the authors are not encouraging parents to send back their kids back to school.)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 08, 2020, 09:50:05 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 08, 2020, 09:49:03 PM

Even more preventative measures with the mask wearing then what we preach during flu season to combat this duuuaaaalll threat.  You good with that?

I didn’t see that in the paper. Is that your professional interpretation, doctor?

And it’s preventive, not preventative.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 08, 2020, 09:54:18 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 08, 2020, 09:50:05 PM

I didn’t see that in the paper. Is that your professional interpretation, doctor?

And it’s preventive, not preventative.

And the grammar/spell check police are back!!  Sure sign your hole is now too deep.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 08, 2020, 09:55:37 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 08, 2020, 09:50:05 PM

I didn’t see that in the paper. Is that your professional interpretation, doctor?

And it’s preventive, not preventative.

You asked me to answer, so I did.  Sorry you didn’t like the answer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 08, 2020, 09:57:31 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 08, 2020, 09:49:11 PM

I get it. When are you going to answer the question about the paper that you posted, and which I have asked twice now?

(Hint: the authors are not encouraging parents to send back their kids back to school.)

You get it!?!?!?  You just don’t care.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 08, 2020, 10:00:32 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 08, 2020, 09:54:18 PM

And the grammar/spell check police are back!!  Sure sign your hole is now too deep.

I was simply trying to help so you don’t screw up the word next time.

I get that you want to interpret every paper that comes out as a green light to get back to normal (but with masks), but that is not what the science is pointing to. Sorry if that ruins your day.

You can have the last word. You’re welcome.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 09, 2020, 12:06:02 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 08, 2020, 10:00:32 PM

I was simply trying to help so you don’t screw up the word next time.

I get that you want to interpret every paper that comes out as a green light to get back to normal (but with masks), but that is not what the science is pointing to. Sorry if that ruins your day.

You can have the last word. You’re welcome.

Ignoring chico makes the Scoop experience much nicer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 09, 2020, 07:53:03 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on September 08, 2020, 08:55:11 PM

So, if you are in grammar school or high school and live with someone with 2 or co-morbidities, stay home and school virtually. If you are a teacher with 2 or more (or you’re living with someone who fits that description) stay home and teach virtually. Everybody else (vast majority), back in the pool?

Something like that yes.  I think we have learned a lot from Florida, Texas, Arizona.  If you mitigate the spread, through distancing, masking, etc., it looks as though you can keep down hospitalizations and deaths.  If you can simulate that environment in a public school, they should be there in person unless they have family issues like the ones you mention above.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 09, 2020, 08:02:19 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on September 09, 2020, 07:53:03 AM

Something like that yes.  I think we have learned a lot from Florida, Texas, Arizona.  If you mitigate the spread, through distancing, masking, etc., it looks as though you can keep down hospitalizations and deaths.  If you can simulate that environment in a public school, they should be there in person unless they have family issues like the ones you mention above.

👏👏 Cheers Fluffy

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on September 09, 2020, 11:09:24 AM

Welp ...

President Donald Trump admitted he knew weeks before the first confirmed US coronavirus death that the virus was dangerous, airborne, highly contagious and "more deadly than even your strenuous flus," and that he repeatedly played it down publicly, according to legendary journalist Bob Woodward in his new book "Rage."

"This is deadly stuff," Trump told Woodward on February 7.

In a series of interviews with Woodward, Trump revealed that he had a surprising level of detail about the threat of the virus earlier than previously known. "Pretty amazing," Trump told Woodward, adding that the coronavirus was maybe five times "more deadly" than the flu.

Trump's admissions are in stark contrast to his frequent public comments at the time insisting that the virus was "going to disappear" and "all work out fine."

The book, using Trump's own words, depicts a President who has betrayed the public trust and the most fundamental responsibilities of his office. In "Rage," Trump says the job of a president is "to keep our country safe." But in early February, Trump told Woodward he knew how deadly the virus was, and in March, admitted he kept that knowledge hidden from the public.

"I wanted to always play it down," Trump told Woodward on March 19, even as he had declared a national emergency over the virus days earlier. "I still like playing it down, because I don't want to create a panic."


https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/09/politics/bob-woodward-rage-book-trump-coronavirus/index.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on September 09, 2020, 11:09:59 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on September 09, 2020, 11:09:24 AM

Welp ...

President Donald Trump admitted he knew weeks before the first confirmed US coronavirus death that the virus was dangerous, airborne, highly contagious and "more deadly than even your strenuous flus," and that he repeatedly played it down publicly, according to legendary journalist Bob Woodward in his new book "Rage."

"This is deadly stuff," Trump told Woodward on February 7.

In a series of interviews with Woodward, Trump revealed that he had a surprising level of detail about the threat of the virus earlier than previously known. "Pretty amazing," Trump told Woodward, adding that the coronavirus was maybe five times "more deadly" than the flu.

Trump's admissions are in stark contrast to his frequent public comments at the time insisting that the virus was "going to disappear" and "all work out fine."

The book, using Trump's own words, depicts a President who has betrayed the public trust and the most fundamental responsibilities of his office. In "Rage," Trump says the job of a president is "to keep our country safe." But in early February, Trump told Woodward he knew how deadly the virus was, and in March, admitted he kept that knowledge hidden from the public.

"I wanted to always play it down," Trump told Woodward on March 19, even as he had declared a national emergency over the virus days earlier. "I still like playing it down, because I don't want to create a panic."


https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/09/politics/bob-woodward-rage-book-trump-coronavirus/index.html

Trump admits President Xi personally told him how dangerous COVID was, and that there is airborne spread. Also, admits he deliberately lied to Americans and downplayed the seriousness to avoid any panics. Knew it was dangerous to young people.

Anyone want to even try to defend him? Trump lied, people died.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on September 09, 2020, 11:31:02 AM

It would be ironic if tapes plus Woodward help bring him down. Deja vu.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 09, 2020, 11:51:49 AM

Quote from: forgetful on September 09, 2020, 11:09:59 AM

Trump admits President Xi personally told him how dangerous COVID was, and that there is airborne spread. Also, admits he deliberately lied to Americans and downplayed the seriousness to avoid any panics. Knew it was dangerous to young people.

Anyone want to even try to defend him? Trump lied, people died.

I have been screaming this since March. And I was roundly criticized here for it.

You are correct, but stating it the way you do ("Trump lied, people died") sounds way to glib and jingoistic. People didn't just "die". Trump killed them by his lies and his inaction.

We still do not have a leader in this country. We have a mad king and his cult following who still don't care about people dying.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 09, 2020, 12:06:22 PM

Quote from: Jockey on September 09, 2020, 11:51:49 AM

I have been screaming this since March. And I was roundly criticized here for it.

You are correct, but stating it the way you do ("Trump lied, people died") sounds way to glib and jingoistic. People didn't just "die". Trump killed them by his lies and his inaction.

We still do not have a leader in this country. We have a mad king and his cult following who still don't care about people dying.

Boy you guys are really trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill here.  A week before the Feb 7th comment to Woodward Trump shut down travel to China, you don’t crap down international travel for something that isn’t serious.

Trump has been widely criticized (rightfully so) for his public messaging early on regarding Covid but when you look at the policies they put into play before this comment and shortly after the administration was obviously taken the virus seriously.

Not sure how this changes that.  Just like the Access Hollywood tape was going to bring the Don down, this wont either. 

Buckle up, should be a fun sprint to the finish here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 09, 2020, 12:09:02 PM

In fact in a task force press conference he already said what was leaked in this audio.

I can try and track down the clip later but reporter asked why such optimistic messaging in the face of deadly pandemic.

Replied that’s how he’s always been and didn’t want to create panic.  This will be out of the news cycle by Friday.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on September 09, 2020, 12:11:16 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 09, 2020, 12:06:22 PM

Boy you guys are really trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill here.  A week before the Feb 7th comment to Woodward Trump shut down travel to China, you don’t crap down international travel for something that isn’t serious.

This is false, but when lies and distortions are all you got ... then you lie and distort.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on September 09, 2020, 12:12:25 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 09, 2020, 12:06:22 PM

Trump has been widely criticized (rightfully so) for his public messaging early on regarding Covid but when you look at the policies they put into play before this comment and shortly after the administration was obviously taken the virus seriously.

You live in lala land full of revisionist history and scientific illiteracy. It's bizzare reading your posts about the pandemic and current events and trying to come to the same conclusions that you do.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 09, 2020, 12:14:42 PM

Quote from: forgetful on September 09, 2020, 11:09:59 AM

Trump admits President Xi personally told him how dangerous COVID was, and that there is airborne spread. Also, admits he deliberately lied to Americans and downplayed the seriousness to avoid any panics. Knew it was dangerous to young people.

Anyone want to even try to defend him? Trump lied, people died.

I’m sure plenty will want to defend him, despite more evidence that he has done the indefensible. It is happened before, and it will happen again this time.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on September 09, 2020, 12:16:05 PM

He did not shut down travel to China. He shut down the ability for citizens of certain countries to enter the US. Thousands of people were still able to travel between the two countries.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 09, 2020, 12:16:15 PM

I love the fact that "but he shut down travel to China" is STILL being used as a trump card for how poorly he has handled this from the beginning.  Like, the one thing he may have done right somehow balances out the dozens of things he has done wrong.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on September 09, 2020, 12:17:08 PM

I think the biggest misstep was his Liberate message to fan the flames of people protesting lockdowns. I think that was the point we were most united in this and then the protests happened which has led to the haphazard approach since.

I don’t disagree with trying to avoid panic, but it was downplayed so much that people thought it was more of a conspiracy.

We were making good progress, but that threw a wrench into it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 09, 2020, 12:18:44 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on September 09, 2020, 12:11:16 PM

This is false, but when lies and distortions are all you got ... then you lie and distort.

What part was false?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on September 09, 2020, 12:20:31 PM

Obviously shutting down travel from China solved everything.  Duh!   :o

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 09, 2020, 12:21:08 PM

Quote from: Skatastrophy on September 09, 2020, 12:12:25 PM

You live in lala land full of revisionist history and scientific illiteracy. It's bizzare reading your posts about the pandemic and current events and trying to come to the same conclusions that you do.

That’s what happens when you live in a one sided echo chamber.  Once another opinion is presented it sounds like a foreign language, I get it.  Not your fault.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on September 09, 2020, 12:21:47 PM

Quote from: cheebs09 on September 09, 2020, 12:17:08 PM

I think the biggest misstep was his Liberate message to fan the flames of people protesting lockdowns. I think that was the point we were most united in this and then the protests happened which has led to the haphazard approach since.

I don’t disagree with trying to avoid panic, but it was downplayed so much that people thought it was more of a conspiracy.

We were making good progress, but that threw a wrench into it.

What panic?
Were there panics in South Korea? Germany? New Zealand? Australia? Canada?
Are we Americans so skittish and dumb that a little honesty about the seriousness of the problem would have led to mass chaos?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 09, 2020, 12:23:11 PM

Quote from: cheebs09 on September 09, 2020, 12:17:08 PM

I think the biggest misstep was his Liberate message to fan the flames of people protesting lockdowns. I think that was the point we were most united in this and then the protests happened which has led to the haphazard approach since.

I don’t disagree with trying to avoid panic, but it was downplayed so much that people thought it was more of a conspiracy.

We were making good progress, but that threw a wrench into it.

Agree completely.  I said this before, but if he would have told people to hold tight for just a few more weeks, and open up more carefully, his re-election would have been guaranteed. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on September 09, 2020, 12:24:06 PM

With audio tapes, this calls for his immediate resignation would be so loud and from every direction that he’d have no choice but to step down.

In this unnatural carnal knowledgeed up world, 50 million people are still going to vote for more of this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on September 09, 2020, 12:26:06 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 09, 2020, 12:18:44 PM

What part was false?

The part about travel being shut down to China (or from China, which likely is what you meant).
Travel was restricted, not shut down.

And has already been pointed out, this one step does not mitigate the many, many failures.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on September 09, 2020, 12:28:47 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on September 09, 2020, 12:21:47 PM

What panic?
Were there panics in South Korea? Germany? New Zealand? Australia? Canada?
Are we Americans so skittish and dumb that a little honesty about the seriousness of the problem would have led to mass chaos?

No toilet paper for a month might have been a sign of panic.  The panic was real in March very real

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 09, 2020, 12:30:49 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on September 09, 2020, 12:20:31 PM

Obviously shutting down travel from China solved everything.  Duh!   :o

Why the constant putting of words in my mouth.  Never said it was the end all be all, just something that was an extreme step in response to a virus that had yet to take an American life if I’m remember the timeline correctly.

It shows they knew behind the scenes they might be up against a really bad situation before the end of January when the travel ban was put in place.  So Trump acknowledging to Woodward on Feb 7th they knew Covid was incredibly serious makes total sense when you look at the timeline of his policies.

I criticized Trumps messaging months ago and agree he should have projected more alarm.  The task force policies didn’t mirror the tone he was projecting on Twitter and in their daily press conferences.

And we had a pretty good debate about that in real time here on scoop on how the policy was sound but the messaging was off coming from the top.  Trump has and will continue to have to own that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 09, 2020, 12:34:57 PM

If this was such an earth shattering secret and if we would have only known this is how the president felt back in early February it would have saved 10s of thousands of lives then isn’t Woodward just as at fault by holding onto these tapes for 7 months to only release them right before his book went on sale.

Did Woodward put American lives behind his own greed?  Another example of our broken media.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 09, 2020, 12:37:27 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on September 09, 2020, 12:26:06 PM

The part about travel being shut down to China (or from China, which likely is what you meant).
Travel was restricted, not shut down.

And has already been pointed out, this one step does not mitigate the many, many failures.

Never said it made up for any of the mistakes that were made.  It’s evidence that they knew Covid was serious weeks before the Woodward interview.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 09, 2020, 12:38:18 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 09, 2020, 12:34:57 PM

If this was such an earth shattering secret and if we would have only known this is how the president felt back in early February it would have saved 10s of thousands of lives then isn’t Woodward just as at fault by holding onto these tapes for 7 months to only release them right before his book went on sale.

Did Woodward put American lives behind his own greed?  Another example of our broken media.

"The buck stops.....over there somewhere!!"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on September 09, 2020, 12:39:07 PM

RE: China travel.  My criticism is that it's touted as a huge difference maker.  However, months later it hasn't mattered one bit because we as a country have failed to take enough steps to halt the spread, and leadership at the top has fueled that.

RE: Woodward.  Unfortunately this is just another blip in the world of Trump.  Completely expected.  Also agree, Woodward is happy this will make him some money and more notoriety. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 09, 2020, 12:43:41 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on September 09, 2020, 12:39:07 PM

RE: China travel.  My criticism is that it's touted as a huge difference maker.  However, months later it hasn't mattered one bit because we as a country have failed to take enough steps to halt the spread, and leadership at the top has fueled that.

An earlier Euro travel ban would have been appropriate if the admin felt that this was truly a successful tactic to mitigating the pandemic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 09, 2020, 12:52:50 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on September 09, 2020, 12:39:07 PM

RE: China travel.  My criticism is that it's touted as a huge difference maker.  However, months later it hasn't mattered one bit because we as a country have failed to take enough steps to halt the spread, and leadership at the top has fueled that.

RE: Woodward.  Unfortunately this is just another blip in the world of Trump.  Completely expected.  Also agree, Woodward is happy this will make him some money and more notoriety.

I don’t know if the China thing made a lick of difference or not.  Doesn’t seem like much of anything makes a difference and that the virus will eventually hit a community before moving into the next.

In the moment though it was extremely newsworthy.  We had just signed a long negotiated trade deal and now travel is heavily restricted between the two countries for a virus that had yet to take an American live. 

My point is (China travel restrictions as the first major administration decision regarding Covid) there is evidence well before the Woodward interview they knew this could get real bad.

How someone of you can’t agree with that simple timeline comes across as 100% partisan bickering.  Par for the course on scoop.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on September 09, 2020, 12:55:28 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 09, 2020, 12:52:50 PM

My point is (China travel restrictions as the first major administration decision regarding Covid) there is evidence well before the Woodward interview they knew this could get real bad.

That may be "evidence", but there are direct lies from Trump after that downplaying everything.  That's where the conflict is.  It has nothing to do with being partisan. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 09, 2020, 01:07:10 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on September 09, 2020, 12:55:28 PM

That may be "evidence", but there are direct lies from Trump after that downplaying everything.  That's where the conflict is.  It has nothing to do with being partisan.

That’s fair, I’d hesitate to call them lies but a severe underestimation of the risk to the point of coming across as being naive to what was happening right in front of his nose.

But again I struggle with focusing too much on his words/messaging in those early days because the task force was doing so much for those early hit states to give them a chance at limiting death.

History will tell a clearer picture to how this pandemic was handled and what worked and also the mistakes that were made.  Almost impossible for any of us to give an honest evaluation when we have no idea what the virus will bring tomorrow.

IMO though these tapes are much to do of nothing other then to drum up some enthusiasm for another kiss and tell book. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on September 09, 2020, 01:09:39 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on September 09, 2020, 12:28:47 PM

No toilet paper for a month might have been a sign of panic.  The panic was real in March very real

The president wisely played down a deadly virus - likely costing tens of thousands of lives, hundreds of thousands of jobs and billions of dollars - to ensure that we didn't run out of toilet paper.
That's leadership.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on September 09, 2020, 01:11:01 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 09, 2020, 01:07:10 PM

That’s fair, I’d hesitate to call them lies but a severe underestimation of the risk to the point of coming across as being naive to what was happening right in front of his nose.

But again I struggle with focusing too much on his words/messaging in those early days because the task force was doing so much for those early hit states to give them a chance at limiting death.

History will tell a clearer picture to how this pandemic was handled and what worked and also the mistakes that were made.  Almost impossible for any of us to give an honest evaluation when we have no idea what the virus will bring tomorrow.

IMO though these tapes are much to do of nothing other then to drum up some enthusiasm for another kiss and tell book.

It's confirmation of a lot of people's worst suspicions but its timing is incredibly cynical.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Lens on September 09, 2020, 01:15:47 PM

His China Travel ban had many holes in it, 40,000 Chinese nationals came in afterwards.  Beyond that, a personal story, my sister in law entered in San Francisco from Hong Kong on Feb 4th with ZERO questioning.  Just rubber stamped in.  She found the ease of which she entered to be very disturbing in real time.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 09, 2020, 01:24:59 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on September 08, 2020, 08:22:46 AM

Sturgis Motorcycle Rally generate d public health costs of $12.2 Billion.

250,000 cases are believed to be linked to the rally, roughly 19% of all national cases between Aug 2 and Sept 2.


https://www.iza.org/publications/dp/13670

I think this study needs to be analyzed a bit further.  I think it is making too many assumptions about how people have come down with the disease.  Did it come from a contact of a contact who got sick?  Or did they get it from another source?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on September 09, 2020, 02:10:43 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 09, 2020, 01:07:10 PM

That’s fair, I’d hesitate to call them lies

To Bob Woodward on Feb. 7:
“It’s more deadly than even your strenuous flu.”

To the public on Feb. 26:
“Treat this like a flu... It’s a little like the regular flu that we have flu shots for.”

Not a lie?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on September 09, 2020, 02:22:13 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on September 09, 2020, 02:10:43 PM

To Bob Woodward on Feb. 7:
“It’s more deadly than even your strenuous flu.”

To the public on Feb. 26:
“Treat this like a flu... It’s a little like the regular flu that we have flu shots for.”

Not a lie?

This is fun. 
https://www.npr.org/2020/04/21/837348551/timeline-what-trump-has-said-and-done-about-the-coronavirus

I think March 10 is a good one: “This was unexpected. … And it hit the world. And we’re prepared, and we’re doing a great job with it. And it will go away. Just stay calm. It will go away.” — Trump, to reporters at the U.S. Capitol

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 09, 2020, 02:49:37 PM

https://mobile.twitter.com/SeanLangille/status/1303763258139123715

From the American hero straight shooting Fauci himself.

Spoiler alert: he doesn’t see the controversy here, yet some on this board are calling for instant removal from office.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on September 09, 2020, 03:13:25 PM

Quote from: The Lens on September 09, 2020, 01:15:47 PM

His China Travel ban had many holes in it, 40,000 Chinese nationals came in afterwards.  Beyond that, a personal story, my sister in law entered in San Francisco from Hong Kong on Feb 4th with ZERO questioning.  Just rubber stamped in.  She found the ease of which she entered to be very disturbing in real time.   

That 40,000 number is a bit low. From https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/04/us/coronavirus-china-travel-restrictions.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/04/us/coronavirus-china-travel-restrictions.html)
more than 430,000 arrived from China after the ban.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on September 09, 2020, 03:39:09 PM

Imagine defending President Pandemic’s response to this.  He’s a hideous human being.  Always has been, always will be.  180,000 dead Americans are on his hands

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on September 09, 2020, 03:44:11 PM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on September 09, 2020, 03:39:09 PM

Imagine defending President Pandemic’s response to this then accusing everyone else of being partisan.  He’s a hideous human being.  Always has been, always will be.  180,000 dead Americans are on his hands

An addendum.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on September 09, 2020, 03:51:54 PM

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2908348-college-football-dl-jamain-stephens-dies-at-age-20-from-covid-19-complications?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

Might have been posted by others. But college football player dies from COVID-19.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HansMoleman on September 09, 2020, 04:15:33 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 09, 2020, 02:49:37 PM

https://mobile.twitter.com/SeanLangille/status/1303763258139123715

From the American hero straight shooting Fauci himself.

Spoiler alert: he doesn’t see the controversy here, yet some on this board are calling for instant removal from office.

Nothing to see here.  Move along.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 09, 2020, 04:28:20 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on September 09, 2020, 03:44:11 PM

An addendum.

Try to keep up Pakuni.  I’ve acknowledged it hasn’t been perfect but imo solid overall.  His messaging at times has been awful, his policies have been good and for the most in line with what Fauci and the rest of the task force was asking for.  Fauci, Cuomo, Newsome, Murphy, etc said the federal govt was there for them when they needed it.

So while I can admit his tweets and press conferences were not great, behind the scenes he was doing his level best to manage an impossible situation. 

Attacks like Trump has blood on his hands for the 180k dead are made by people who are not serious and overtly partisan.  Is there anything you think they did right the past 7 months?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on September 09, 2020, 04:28:56 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 09, 2020, 04:28:20 PM

Try to keep up Pakuni.  I’ve acknowledged it hasn’t been perfect but imo solid overall.  His messaging at times has been awful, his policies have been good and for the most in line with what Fauci and the rest of the task force was asking for.  Fauci, Cuomo, Newsome, Murphy, etc said the federal govt was there for them when they needed it.

So while I can admit his tweets and press conferences were not great, behind the scenes he was doing his level best to manage an impossible situation. 

Attacks like Trump has blood on his hands for the 180k dead are made by people who are not serious and overtly partisan.  Is there anything you think they did right the past 7 months?

The Trump administration?  Absolutely not

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on September 09, 2020, 04:30:00 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 09, 2020, 02:49:37 PM

some on this board are calling for instant removal from office.

some on this board would like to characterize lies as "severe underestimation of the risk". 

So, some people say...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 09, 2020, 04:30:25 PM

Quote from: forgetful on September 09, 2020, 03:51:54 PM

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2908348-college-football-dl-jamain-stephens-dies-at-age-20-from-covid-19-complications?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

Might have been posted by others. But college football player dies from COVID-19.

I’m sure you’re busy, just checking in to see if you’ve had a chance to review that Sturgis study and any thoughts?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 09, 2020, 04:34:55 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on September 09, 2020, 04:30:00 PM

some on this board would like to characterize lies as "severe underestimation of the risk". 

So, some people say...

Well honest people would say it would have been a flat out lie to say it posed no risk but by comparing it to the risk of influenza (which obviously has significant risks) would be an underestimation to the increased risk Covid brings.

See the difference?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on September 09, 2020, 04:37:02 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 09, 2020, 04:30:25 PM

I’m sure you’re busy, just checking in to see if you’ve had a chance to review that Sturgis study and any thoughts?

The study was largely a statistical analysis using various tracking technologies. There is no way to confirm or refute the analysis, in my opinion, those types of studies aren't science as they can't be falsified.

So I largely ignore them. Trying to quantify the number of cases related to Sturgis is nearly impossible, relies on too many assumptions, trying to extend that to a monetary aspect is even more limited in terms of meaning/accuracy. It is much simpler to state that holding Sturgis contributed to an increase in spread of COVID-19 and related mortality.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on September 09, 2020, 04:39:46 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 09, 2020, 04:34:55 PM

Well honest people would say it would have been a flat out lie to say it posed no risk but by comparing it to the risk of influenza (which obviously has significant risks) would be an underestimation to the increased risk Covid brings.

See the difference?

I'm glad we have an expert like you here.  Lie or severe underestimation of risk?

March 25: “Nobody would ever believe a thing like that’s possible. Nobody could have ever seen something like this coming, but now we know, and we know it can happen and happen again.”

— Trump at a task force briefing, claiming falsely that no one saw a pandemic like the coronavirus coming

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 09, 2020, 04:43:35 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on September 09, 2020, 04:39:46 PM

I'm glad we have an expert like you here.  Lie or severe underestimation of risk?

March 25: “Nobody would ever believe a thing like that’s possible. Nobody could have ever seen something like this coming, but now we know, and we know it can happen and happen again.”

— Trump at a task force briefing, claiming falsely that no one saw a pandemic like the coronavirus coming

Who could see a once in a lifetime pandemic hitting?  Prior to December of ‘19 are you suggesting anyone outside of China knew this thing was about to flip our worlds upside down?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: naginiF on September 09, 2020, 04:47:29 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 09, 2020, 04:43:35 PM

Who could see a once in a lifetime pandemic hitting?  Prior to December of ‘19 are you suggesting anyone outside of China knew this thing was about to flip our worlds upside down?

Absolutely EVERYONE outside of the current administration knew...
https://twitter.com/joebiden/status/1187829299207954437?lang=en (https://twitter.com/joebiden/status/1187829299207954437?lang=en)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on September 09, 2020, 04:52:48 PM

He knew at the beginning of February at the latest.  It’s on the tapes.  A real leader, not a narcissistic child, would have addressed the nation and told everyone (he’s the president of the United States, not just his base) the truth.  This idea we’d panic?  There was panic anyway, all you had to do was go to the grocery store.  And if the people across the world could hear the truth and we couldn’t, that doesn’t say much about us. 

Instead, we get a dithering, inconsistent message and attacks on perceived enemies instead of real leadership.  A real leader would have told his fellow Americans the next few months could be hard.  Tough choice and sacrifices would have to be made but that he believed Americans would do their part to beat this and help his fellow American do so.  Instead, he pitted Americans against one another.  Instead of putting together a cohesive plan that was implemented nationally, we took a haphazard localized approach that has been shoddy at best.

History won’t look kindly on America in 2020.  It won’t look kindly at the man in the White House and it won’t look kindly on his sycophantic followers.  It’s an abject failure in leadership and a dereliction of duty.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on September 09, 2020, 05:05:40 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 09, 2020, 04:43:35 PM

Who could see a once in a lifetime pandemic hitting?  Prior to December of ‘19 are you suggesting anyone outside of China knew this thing was about to flip our worlds upside down?

Who could have seen it coming?

Former President Barack Obama warned the nation in 2014 about the potential for a coming pandemic and pushed for billions in emergency funding that was ultimately blocked by Republicans in Congress.
In a speech on December 2 that year in Bethesda, Maryland, Obama urged Congress to set aside partisan differences and pass funding to combat pandemics in the future.
“There may and likely will come a time in which we have both an airborne disease that is deadly, and in order for us to deal with that effectively we have to put in place an infrastructure, not just here at home but globally, that allows us to see it quickly, isolate it quickly, respond to it quickly, so that if and when a new strain of flu like the Spanish flu crops up five years from now or a decade from now, we’ve made the investment and we’re further along to be able to catch it.”
Nearly a month earlier, on November 5, 2014, Obama asked lawmakers for $6.18 billion in emergency funds to enhance the government’s ability to respond to an outbreak of Ebola, which was an urgent situation at the time.
Obama’s request included $4.64 billion for immediate response and $1.54 billion as a contingency fund to ensure that there are resources available to meet the evolving nature of the epidemic.
But in an ultra-conservative Congress with little appetite for big spending measures, Obama’s proposal was pretty much dead on arrival.

https://www.ajc.com/news/obama-warned-pandemic-threat-2014-but-republicans-blocked-funding/dh2H9HxiuBY05T5uPqtqpI/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 09, 2020, 05:06:54 PM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on September 09, 2020, 04:52:48 PM

He knew at the beginning of February at the latest.  It’s on the tapes.  A real leader, not a narcissistic child, would have addressed the nation and told everyone (he’s the president of the United States, not just his base) the truth.  This idea we’d panic?  There was panic anyway, all you had to do was go to the grocery store.  And if the people across the world could hear the truth and we couldn’t, that doesn’t say much about us. 

Instead, we get a dithering, inconsistent message and attacks on perceived enemies instead of real leadership.  A real leader would have told his fellow Americans the next few months could be hard.  Tough choice and sacrifices would have to be made but that he believed Americans would do their part to beat this and help his fellow American do so.  Instead, he pitted Americans against one another.  Instead of putting together a cohesive plan that was implemented nationally, we took a haphazard localized approach that has been shoddy at best.

History won’t look kindly on America in 2020.  It won’t look kindly at the man in the White House and it won’t look kindly on his sycophantic followers.  It’s an abject failure in leadership and a dereliction of duty.

That’s the beauty of all this.  The 7 months of back and forth all gets decided in November on whether we as a country approved of the response.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 09, 2020, 05:09:07 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on September 09, 2020, 05:05:40 PM

Who could have seen it coming?

Former President Barack Obama warned the nation in 2014 about the potential for a coming pandemic and pushed for billions in emergency funding that was ultimately blocked by Republicans in Congress.
In a speech on December 2 that year in Bethesda, Maryland, Obama urged Congress to set aside partisan differences and pass funding to combat pandemics in the future.
“There may and likely will come a time in which we have both an airborne disease that is deadly, and in order for us to deal with that effectively we have to put in place an infrastructure, not just here at home but globally, that allows us to see it quickly, isolate it quickly, respond to it quickly, so that if and when a new strain of flu like the Spanish flu crops up five years from now or a decade from now, we’ve made the investment and we’re further along to be able to catch it.”
Nearly a month earlier, on November 5, 2014, Obama asked lawmakers for $6.18 billion in emergency funds to enhance the government’s ability to respond to an outbreak of Ebola, which was an urgent situation at the time.
Obama’s request included $4.64 billion for immediate response and $1.54 billion as a contingency fund to ensure that there are resources available to meet the evolving nature of the epidemic.
But in an ultra-conservative Congress with little appetite for big spending measures, Obama’s proposal was pretty much dead on arrival.

https://www.ajc.com/news/obama-warned-pandemic-threat-2014-but-republicans-blocked-funding/dh2H9HxiuBY05T5uPqtqpI/

Well of course Obama saw it coming. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on September 09, 2020, 05:20:35 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 09, 2020, 04:28:20 PM

Try to keep up Pakuni.  I’ve acknowledged it hasn’t been perfect but imo solid overall.  His messaging at times has been awful, his policies have been good and for the most in line with what Fauci and the rest of the task force was asking for. 

Well, the empirical data proves we're far from solid overall. That's not even worth debating.
But on the policies, the problem you seem to be ignoring, or not grasping, is that anything positive that's been done or recommended by his administration has been severely undermined or dismissed by Trump himself.

Task force recommends shutdowns? Trump encourages people to violate shutdowns and attacks governors in states enacting shutdowns.
Task force recommends masks? Trump refuses to wear a mask and mocks those who do.
Task force recommends social distancing? Trump holds mass gatherings where social distancing isn't required or observed.
Task force says we should follow the science and listen to the experts? Trump smears the experts and pushes for miracle cures not supported by the science.
Task force says testing is key to getting the virus under control? Trump says we're testing too much and wants testing slowed down.

He's intentionally sabotaging every reasonable effort to get the virus under control and contradicting any effective policies being enacted.
And you think that's "solid overall"?
You want to give credit for one side but dismiss the other as merely "bad messaging." But it's not just bad messaging. It's a reckless and callous disregard for life.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on September 09, 2020, 05:31:34 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 09, 2020, 04:43:35 PM

Who could see a once in a lifetime pandemic hitting?  Prior to December of ‘19 are you suggesting anyone outside of China knew this thing was about to flip our worlds upside down?

Plenty of people have answered your Dec '19 question.  But you're missing the point.  You claim the White House knew a pandemic was coming by Feb 1.  That's why they "shut down" (hah) travel from China, and why Woodward revelations are "nothing"  But then on Mar 25 he said "Nobody could have ever seen something like this coming, but now we know". 

So when was he telling the truth?  Or is his mental acuity in question?

edit:
Also...Benny B saw it on Jan 27...
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=59849.msg1200173#msg1200173

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on September 09, 2020, 05:34:03 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 09, 2020, 05:09:07 PM

Well of course Obama saw it coming.

(https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-25-2018/In7Q-o.gif)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 09, 2020, 05:37:18 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on September 09, 2020, 05:20:35 PM

Well, the empirical data proves we're far from solid overall. That's not even worth debating.
But on the policies, the problem you seem to be ignoring, or not grasping, is that anything positive that's been done or recommended by his administration has been severely undermined or dismissed by Trump himself.

Task force recommends shutdowns? Trump encourages people to violate shutdowns and attacks governors in states enacting shutdowns.
Task force recommends masks? Trump refuses to wear a mask and mocks those who do.
Task force recommends social distancing? Trump holds mass gatherings where social distancing isn't required or observed.
Task force says we should follow the science and listen to the experts? Trump smears the experts and pushes for miracle cures not supported by the science.
Task force says testing is key to getting the virus under control? Trump says we're testing too much and wants testing slowed down.

He's intentionally sabotaging every reasonable effort to get the virus under control and contradicting any effective policies being enacted.
And you think that's "solid overall"?
You want to give credit for one side but dismiss the other as merely "bad messaging." But it's not just bad messaging. It's a reckless and callous disregard for life.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree and that’s ok.  My long term concern regarding the effects of the last 7 months is how we’ve let it divide us, not sure how or what it will take to ease the division but hopefully once this is all behind us we can get back to trying to understand both sides of an issue and while it’s unrealistic to think everyone will agree on anything I just hope the demonizing of the other side settles down a bit.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 09, 2020, 05:38:33 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 09, 2020, 04:43:35 PM

Who could see a once in a lifetime pandemic hitting?  Prior to December of ‘19 are you suggesting anyone outside of China knew this thing was about to flip our worlds upside down?

Ummm...epidemiologists have been warning about this for years. So pretty much everyone who believes in science.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 09, 2020, 05:41:04 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on September 09, 2020, 05:31:34 PM

Plenty of people have answered your Dec '19 question.  But you're missing the point.  You claim the White House knew a pandemic was coming by Feb 1.  That's why they "shut down" (hah) travel from China, and why Woodward revelations are "nothing"  But then on Mar 25 he said "Nobody could have ever seen something like this coming, but now we know". 

So when was he telling the truth?  Or is his mental acuity in question?

Yep. Either it was an outright lie, or he 'forgot' about being warned of one of the most serious biological threats in a century.

Neither is a very good answer for Trump.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 09, 2020, 05:47:24 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 09, 2020, 05:38:33 PM

Ummm...epidemiologists have been warning about this for years. So pretty much everyone who believes in science.

You guys are something.  I dont think it takes an expert epidemiologist or an epidemiologist in general to predict that at some point in the future there will be an epidemic. 

I think you all know you’re being a little obtuse here with your replies.  To suggest anyone knew the scope, severity or timing other then at some point in the “future” was my point.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on September 09, 2020, 05:51:01 PM

I'm gonna' apologize.  I fell for Pace's political bait today, and I should not have.  Lets get back to sharing info about covid-19.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 09, 2020, 05:57:14 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on September 09, 2020, 05:51:01 PM

I'm gonna' apologize.  I fell for Pace's political bait today, and I should not have.  Lets get back to sharing info about covid-19.

Same here. He keeps baiting the hook, and I have bitten a couple of times myself. It's just so tempting when you catch him in a contradiction or a misinterpretation of a paper, but it seems he has a 'yeah, but' for everything. I'll try too resist...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 09, 2020, 06:04:19 PM

Don’t blame Pace.  He just suffers from viral brain fog.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/09/health/coronavirus-brain.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/09/health/coronavirus-brain.html)

As an aside the breadth and speed of work/research that Dr Iwasaki And her group at Yale is doing related to Covid Is amazing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 09, 2020, 06:15:23 PM

I don’t show up often but when i do I enjoy a good back and forth.

I too have gotten carried away the last 24 hrs and will be checking out until hoops season.  Hope everyone stays healthy and happy wherever you are!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on September 09, 2020, 06:20:53 PM

Let's see...who is not taking the pandemic seriously...

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EhgNHpMXYAAe43I?format=jpg&name=medium)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on September 09, 2020, 07:01:36 PM

A bit OT, but there needs to be a reckoning around this type of journalistic practice of withholding information for books. Woodward has certainly earned a certain amount of freedom in his career despite acting a bit above it all in the later stages of his career.

But he has legitimate culpability here, and his defenses today are frankly horsecrap.

There's a certain portion of the population that won't trust the media no matter what - this is a hell of a way to alienate the rest of it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 09, 2020, 07:08:23 PM

Quote from: GB Warrior on September 09, 2020, 07:01:36 PM

A bit OT, but there needs to be a reckoning around this type of journalistic practice of withholding information for books. Woodward has certainly earned a certain amount of freedom in his career despite acting a bit above it all in the later stages of his career.

But he has legitimate culpability here, and his defenses today are frankly horsecrap.

There's a certain portion of the population that won't trust the media no matter what - this is a hell of a way to alienate the rest of it.

Sorry one last post.  I agree whole heartedly with this statement GB!!

Also like I mentioned earlier and said at the time that I would try and track down the video of Trump publicly saying numerous times in his press conferences what he told Woodward behind the scenes.  Everything has been said in public is consistent to what he said in these tapes so not sure where the story is with this.  Link below as promised:

https://mobile.twitter.com/JerryDunleavy/status/1303839132494462976

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 09, 2020, 07:08:47 PM

Quote from: GB Warrior on September 09, 2020, 07:01:36 PM

A bit OT, but there needs to be a reckoning around this type of journalistic practice of withholding information for books. Woodward has certainly earned a certain amount of freedom in his career despite acting a bit above it all in the later stages of his career.

But he has legitimate culpability here, and his defenses today are frankly horsecrap.

There's a certain portion of the population that won't trust the media no matter what - this is a hell of a way to alienate the rest of it.

Ian Bremmer called out the same thing today. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on September 09, 2020, 07:23:56 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 09, 2020, 07:08:23 PM

Sorry one last post.  I agree whole heartedly with this statement GB!!

Also like I mentioned earlier and said at the time that I would try and track down the video of Trump publicly saying numerous times in his press conferences what he told Woodward behind the scenes.  Everything has been said in public is consistent to what he said in these tapes so not sure where the story is with this.  Link below as promised:

https://mobile.twitter.com/JerryDunleavy/status/1303839132494462976

This isn't what I said, and it's only peripherally true if you ignore literally every other public statement he's made.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on September 09, 2020, 07:45:02 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 09, 2020, 07:08:23 PM

Sorry one last post.  I agree whole heartedly with this statement GB!!

Also like I mentioned earlier and said at the time that I would try and track down the video of Trump publicly saying numerous times in his press conferences what he told Woodward behind the scenes.  Everything has been said in public is consistent to what he said in these tapes so not sure where the story is with this.  Link below as promised:

https://mobile.twitter.com/JerryDunleavy/status/1303839132494462976

I didn't click your link, so maybe you don't click mine.  I don't completely disagree with you - I mean, he still has lied a bunch.  Telling people you have been lying doesn't really excuse that.  In my NPR link, from Apr 7:

https://www.npr.org/2020/04/21/837348551/timeline-what-trump-has-said-and-done-about-the-coronavirus

“The cases really didn’t build up for a while. But you have to understand, I’m a cheerleader for this country. I don’t want to create havoc and shock and everything else, but ultimately, when I was saying that, I’m also closing it down. I obviously was concerned about it because I closed down our country to China.”

— Trump, in a task force briefing, when asked about “downplaying the threat of coronavirus” early on

Ah crap, I've gone and done it again.  24 hour ban for myself.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 09, 2020, 08:30:30 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on September 09, 2020, 07:45:02 PM

I didn't click your link, so maybe you don't click mine.  I don't completely disagree with you - I mean, he still has lied a bunch.  Telling people you have been lying doesn't really excuse that.  In my NPR link, from Apr 7:

https://www.npr.org/2020/04/21/837348551/timeline-what-trump-has-said-and-done-about-the-coronavirus

“The cases really didn’t build up for a while. But you have to understand, I’m a cheerleader for this country. I don’t want to create havoc and shock and everything else, but ultimately, when I was saying that, I’m also closing it down. I obviously was concerned about it because I closed down our country to China.”

— Trump, in a task force briefing, when asked about “downplaying the threat of coronavirus” early on

Ah crap, I've gone and done it again.  24 hour ban for myself.

Ignore button is your friend.  8-)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on September 09, 2020, 08:31:47 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on September 09, 2020, 05:51:01 PM

I'm gonna' apologize.  I fell for Pace's political bait today, and I should not have.  Lets get back to sharing info about covid-19.

Yup, trolly troll is successful in tying up 8 or 9 people with his intentional disinformation and bad faith arguing. Its one thing to have an honest back-and-forth with someone like Lenny vs. engaging with a chicosesque liar.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on September 09, 2020, 10:02:20 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on September 09, 2020, 08:31:47 PM

Yup, trolly troll is successful in tying up 8 or 9 people with his intentional disinformation and bad faith arguing. Its one thing to have an honest back-and-forth with someone like Lenny vs. engaging with a chicosesque liar.

Yeah but it’s Chicos here

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 09, 2020, 10:28:05 PM

Woodward’s old running mate from Watergate - Carl Bernstein - called what trump said, “homicidal negligence”.

Right in line with what I have maintained since March.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: SoCalwarrior on September 09, 2020, 10:42:13 PM

Quote from: Jockey on September 09, 2020, 08:30:30 PM

Ignore button is your friend.  8-)

No ignore button for moderators:(

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 09, 2020, 11:30:41 PM

Just a question for those criticizing Woodward for withholding his comments until publication of his book: Is your criticism based on the notion that his disclosure will dramatically change how Trump handles the virus? If not, what difference would it have made in terms of pandemic mitigation to disclose the comments earlier?

IMHO, the revelation - whether it was made in May or today - will not change what Trump or the administration does...or how the True Believers behave. As a result, the delay will not impact the number of lives lost. Instead, it may simply only have an impact on who votes for whom in the November election.

I guess we will see. If Trump takes a dramatically more aggressive stance toward the pandemic beginning immediately, it will be evidence my hunch is wrong. But if he continues his ‘hands-off/masks optional’ approach toward the crisis, it will suggest my hunch is correct.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on September 09, 2020, 11:51:12 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 09, 2020, 11:30:41 PM

Just a question for those criticizing Woodward for withholding his comments until publication of his book: Is your criticism based on the notion that his disclosure will dramatically change how Trump handles the virus? If not, what difference would it have made in terms of pandemic mitigation to disclose the comments earlier?

IMHO, the revelation - whether it was made in May or today - will not change what Trump or the administration does...or how the True Believers behave. As a result, the delay will not impact the number of lives lost. Instead, it may simply only have an impact on who votes for whom in the November election.

I guess we will see. If Trump takes a dramatically more aggressive stance toward the pandemic beginning immediately, it will be evidence my hunch is wrong. But if he continues his ‘hands-off/masks optional’ approach toward the crisis, it will suggest my hunch is correct.

Wolves don't concern themselves with the opinions of sheep. It's not for Woodward to judge how it will be received by the American public; it's his job to determine whether they should receive it. He chose that they did not.

I buy and understand that he did not have full context and sourcing on information for several months. But he knew immediately that Trump was saying one thing in private and another in public. The contradiction is the story.

The idea that he should be the "2nd draft of history" is garbage when he was positioned to be the first. Woodward and Bernstein had about 200 Watergate articles when all was said and done. Who goes a fck if we didn't have the whole picture of the coronavirus - we still don't! That story would have evolved regardless, but the peek into the President's consciousness wasn't newsworthy because he couldn't validate the claim of how serious it was? Give me a fcking break.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 10, 2020, 12:30:42 AM

Quote from: GB Warrior on September 09, 2020, 11:51:12 PM

Wolves don't concern themselves with the opinions of sheep. It's not for Woodward to judge how it will be received by the American public; it's his job to determine whether they should receive it. He chose that they did not.

I buy and understand that he did not have full context and sourcing on information for several months. But he knew immediately that Trump was saying one thing in private and another in public. The contradiction is the story.

The idea that he should be the "2nd draft of history" is garbage when he was positioned to be the first. Woodward and Bernstein had about 200 Watergate articles when all was said and done. Who goes a fck if we didn't have the whole picture of the coronavirus - we still don't! That story would have evolved regardless, but the peek into the President's consciousness wasn't newsworthy because he couldn't validate the claim of how serious it was? Give me a fcking break.

‘The contradiction is the story‘…but we have long known that Trump contradicts himself all the time. Nothing terribly urgent about that. Simply a confirmation (for about the 50th time) of the same old thing.

And what might the consequences of this revelation/confirmation be? The only answer seems to be accountability.

So who is going to hold him accountable? Congress? Nope; the House already tried, but the Senate didn’t go along with it. The answer is We The People. And since we have the information before November, we have it in plenty of time to hold him accountable.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 10, 2020, 12:50:21 AM

Quote from: GB Warrior on September 09, 2020, 11:51:12 PM

Wolves don't concern themselves with the opinions of sheep. It's not for Woodward to judge how it will be received by the American public; it's his job to determine whether they should receive it. He chose that they did not.

I buy and understand that he did not have full context and sourcing on information for several months. But he knew immediately that Trump was saying one thing in private and another in public. The contradiction is the story.

The idea that he should be the "2nd draft of history" is garbage when he was positioned to be the first. Woodward and Bernstein had about 200 Watergate articles when all was said and done. Who goes a fck if we didn't have the whole picture of the coronavirus - we still don't! That story would have evolved regardless, but the peek into the President's consciousness wasn't newsworthy because he couldn't validate the claim of how serious it was? Give me a fcking break.

I think you are wrong and I agree with Goo. What Woodward revealed was mostly not news. Almost all was just a confirmation of what most of us knew 6 months ago. He mainly just filled in the blanks.

Holding Woodward responsible is simply an attempt to deflect blame from where we all know it belongs. Our leader lied is responsible for tens of thousands of deaths. No different than Johnson and Nixon lies in the 60s caused tens of thousands of young men to die.

The #1 job of the president is to protect Americans. Instead, trump is the biggest failure of any president in history.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on September 10, 2020, 02:06:26 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 09, 2020, 04:28:20 PM

Fauci, Cuomo, Newsome, Murphy, etc said the federal govt was there for them when they needed it.

Governor Cuomo: "There was a headline in the Daily News once: 'Ford to City: Drop Dead'...What Ford did pales in comparison to what Trump is doing; not only did he tell New York City to "drop dead," Trump is actively trying to kill New York City. It is personal. I think it's psychological. He is trying to kill New York City."

Cuomo: "Donald Trump caused the COVID outbreak in New York. That is a fact. It's a fact that he admitted and the CDC admitted and Fauci admitted this nation loses more people per day to COVID than any nation on the globe. Do you hear that point? We lose more people per day to COVID than any nation on the globe. You know who did that? Donald Trump's incompetence. And now they won't provide federal funding to help repair the damage from the ambush they created."
Cuomo 9/8/20
https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/video-audio-rush-transcript-cuomo-trump-actively-trying-kill-new-york-city

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 10, 2020, 07:00:57 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 09, 2020, 11:30:41 PM

Just a question for those criticizing Woodward for withholding his comments until publication of his book: Is your criticism based on the notion that his disclosure will dramatically change how Trump handles the virus? If not, what difference would it have made in terms of pandemic mitigation to disclose the comments earlier?

IMHO, the revelation - whether it was made in May or today - will not change what Trump or the administration does...or how the True Believers behave. As a result, the delay will not impact the number of lives lost. Instead, it may simply only have an impact on who votes for whom in the November election.

I guess we will see. If Trump takes a dramatically more aggressive stance toward the pandemic beginning immediately, it will be evidence my hunch is wrong. But if he continues his ‘hands-off/masks optional’ approach toward the crisis, it will suggest my hunch is correct.

To me, you get the information out there once you can confirm it.  Sitting on it until it is financially or politically expedient is a large part of why we are where we are as a country.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on September 10, 2020, 08:01:33 AM

Quote from: Jockey on September 10, 2020, 12:50:21 AM

I think you are wrong and I agree with Goo. What Woodward revealed was mostly not news. Almost all was just a confirmation of what most of us knew 6 months ago. He mainly just filled in the blanks.

Holding Woodward responsible is simply an attempt to deflect blame from where we all know it belongs. Our leader lied is responsible for tens of thousands of deaths. No different than Johnson and Nixon lies in the 60s caused tens of thousands of young men to die.

The #1 job of the president is to protect Americans. Instead, trump is the biggest failure of any president in history.

That's fine, we can disagree on this one. I don't disagree with either of you where the blame falls. And I don't disagree that most reasonably minded people were anticipating that this would be a Big Deal by the end of Feb (noting the story in dispute happened in early Feb). By that time, I had already canceled two business trips and begun bolstering my home office. So clearly this had begun to sink in for normal, moderately well-read people like me.

My point is that while our national consciousness was still grappling with this virus, there was on the ground reporting that the president had admitted it was worse than he was projecting publicly. While some in his administration had begun tepidly ringing alarm bells in early Feb, you don't think it'd have forced some hands if the words of the president suggested a bit more urgency? I'm not really concerned with the 1/3 of the country that are lemmings for him; I think this could have been a meaningful conversation to have in February that, even around the edges, would have had meaningful impact.

There's a time and a place for long-form or exposè journalism. I think this - in this moment - is bad optics for a profession that has been unfairly maligned as it is.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on September 10, 2020, 09:22:54 AM

I understand the criticism of Woodward, and while I won't tell people they're wrong to be critical, it seems that inherent in the criticism is a misunderstanding of Woodward's role and process these days.
He's not a daily or even weekly news reporter any more. He's a book author. And as such, his reporting takes place over weeks and weeks of interviews - in this case, 18 separate interviews - and is conditioned by an understanding between him and his sources that he's not going to publish immediately. Without that condition, the interviews likely don't take place and, even if they do, you're not likely to see the kind of candor we saw here.
So while people may understandably dislike or criticize the process, the process is the only reason we've got this information in the first place. Trump very likely isn't going to sit down for 18 recorded interviews with Woodward and open up like this if he knows it's being published the next day every time.
If you believe it was unethical for Woodward to sit on this info, that's fine. But it would also have been unethical for him to publish this information immediately when the condition of the interview was that he would not publish immediately.

Again, I'm not telling anyone not to be critical. But do realize that it's a lot more complicated than just "Woodward buried this to sell books!"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 10, 2020, 09:59:51 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on September 10, 2020, 07:00:57 AM

To me, you get the information out there once you can confirm it.  Sitting on it until it is financially or politically expedient is a large part of why we are where we are as a country.

In an ideal world, maybe yes. But, trump supporters - even with the president lying on tape - deny that he lied. Those who don't support him already knew what Woodward reported. He just confirmed the details.

There is not a single word in his book that would have changed minds. There was no reason to put this "news" out there.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 10, 2020, 10:03:25 AM

No chico. and,...

Suddenly we can have a great discussion. Different viewpoints presented with respect.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 10, 2020, 10:14:53 AM

Quote from: Jockey on September 10, 2020, 09:59:51 AM

In an ideal world, maybe yes. But, trump supporters - even with the president lying on tape - deny that he lied. Those who don't support him already knew what Woodward reported. He just confirmed the details.

There is not a single word in his book that would have changed minds. There was no reason to put this "news" out there.

Well obviously minds wouldn't be changed... for his base.  I'm going to say I'm not super outraged.  Anyone with a modicum of intelligence has known that a pathological liar is going to lie nonstop.   And the Venn diagram of people who don't think that Trump lies constantly, and whose mind won't be changed by this story is a circle.   So whoopity- do, add it to the god damned pile.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 10, 2020, 10:23:42 AM

It's not about voters.  It is whether or not it would have made those in power to take action sooner or act in a different manner (governors, Fed Bureaucracy) and those who are governed to accept public health measures.

Instead Bob W chose to protect the info to get more interviews (they would have been cutoff the min he released it).  So we are left with someone making a decision to have a more impactful book (more interviews than if he leaked) or more book sales....or both.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on September 10, 2020, 10:23:46 AM

Quote from: Jockey on September 10, 2020, 09:59:51 AM

In an ideal world, maybe yes. But, trump supporters - even with the president lying on tape - deny that he lied. Those who don't support him already knew what Woodward reported. He just confirmed the details.

There is not a single word in his book that would have changed minds. There was no reason to put this "news" out there.

I do think there's a thread to pull on, though. His supporters listen to him, and these are his words. He would have continued to lie and cheat and steal because that's who he is as a person. Even marginally, it would have put his press conferences on the defensive.

I don't think anyone is suggesting this would have solved everything. I'm fully confident this administration would have unnatural carnal knowledge'd up their response just as they did. But if even a single Trump supporter heard him describe the severity in his own words and maybe altered their practices, it would have made a difference in an exponentially expanding virus.

Now, I think Pakuni's comment is fair that Woodward isn't a member of the WH press Corp anything of the sort. All true, and different journalists have different roles to play. But Woodward said there were no NDAs or agreements to delay reporting, so it seems to have been his choice to withhold.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 10, 2020, 10:48:26 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 10, 2020, 10:23:42 AM

It's not about voters.  It is whether or not it would have made those in power to take action sooner or act in a different manner (governors, Fed Bureaucracy) and those who are governed to accept public health measures.

Instead Bob W chose to protect the info to get more interviews (they would have been cutoff the min he released it).  So we are left with someone making a decision to have a more impactful book (more interviews than if he leaked) or more book sales....or both.

If it's about changing leaders' behavior, we should still see changes with this revelation today. Will Kim Reynolds, Kristi Noem or Doug Burgum issue stay-at-home orders now that they have heard POTUS' words? Will they make masks mandatory in public, and enforce violations?

Personally, I kinda doubt it....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 10, 2020, 10:52:42 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 10, 2020, 10:48:26 AM

If it's about changing leaders' behavior, we should still see changes with this revelation today. Will Kim Reynolds, Kristi Noem or Doug Burgum issue stay-at-home orders now that they have heard POTUS' words? Will they make masks mandatory in public, and enforce violations?

Personally, I kinda doubt it....

It's too late for that...we are where we are.  I think it's more about a guy like Doug Ducey not being so cavalier back in Apr...he and the people of AZ by the way is a great example of acting differently once the gravity was understood.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on September 10, 2020, 12:02:41 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 09, 2020, 05:38:33 PM

Ummm...epidemiologists have been warning about this for years. So pretty much everyone who believes in science.

A friend of mine works in Emergency Planning division of HHS and he's been telling me for years, "a pandemic WILL happen, count on it."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 10, 2020, 12:18:08 PM

Quote from: GB Warrior on September 09, 2020, 11:51:12 PM

Wolves don't concern themselves with the opinions of sheep. It's not for Woodward to judge how it will be received by the American public; it's his job to determine whether they should receive it. He chose that they did not.

I buy and understand that he did not have full context and sourcing on information for several months. But he knew immediately that Trump was saying one thing in private and another in public. The contradiction is the story.

The idea that he should be the "2nd draft of history" is garbage when he was positioned to be the first. Woodward and Bernstein had about 200 Watergate articles when all was said and done. Who goes a fck if we didn't have the whole picture of the coronavirus - we still don't! That story would have evolved regardless, but the peek into the President's consciousness wasn't newsworthy because he couldn't validate the claim of how serious it was? Give me a fcking break.

Trump is making the exact same argument today.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on September 10, 2020, 12:22:57 PM

Whether Woodward should have released the info earlier is a valid question question but irrelevant to the questions about the actions and mindset of the President, and should not be used to cloud that issue.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on September 10, 2020, 12:26:46 PM

Quote from: Jockey on September 10, 2020, 12:18:08 PM

Trump is making the exact same argument today.

Well it rings hollow coming from the man wit blood on his hands. It's wrong and he's wrong, but Woodward created a window of opportunity for him. Its an indictment of our time that we need our democratic infrastructure outside of Agent Orange to be above reproach, but we do, because Trump has shown he will lean on whataboutisms to no end.

So, bottom line is this, because you and I agree with who is to blame and that Trump's core base would be unmoved: I'm not outraged at Woodward as if he could have solved this, and I don't hold him up as some would-be savior. I'm (extreme dad voice) disappointed. It was a missed opportunity for journalism writ large and invited some valid critiques of media practices at a time where we need them at their best. And Woodward, in my opinion, fell short.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on September 10, 2020, 12:27:45 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on September 10, 2020, 12:22:57 PM

Whether Woodward should have released the info earlier is a valid question question but irrelevant to the questions about the actions and mindset of the President, and should not be used to cloud that issue.

Bingo.
This is like the serial killer blaming the cops for not catching him sooner.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on September 10, 2020, 01:36:18 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 10, 2020, 10:23:42 AM

Instead Bob W chose to protect the info to get more interviews (they would have been cutoff the min he released it).  So we are left with someone making a decision to have a more impactful book (more interviews than if he leaked) or more book sales....or both.

This is sort of a side discussion, but it baffles me why Trump was talking to Woodward in the first place. His last book in 2018 was highly critical of Trump, and usually that sort thing prompts  undying antagonism from the POTUS. But here he is have multiple extensive conversations with Woodward...I don't get it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: naginiF on September 10, 2020, 01:44:58 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on September 10, 2020, 01:36:18 PM

This is sort of a side discussion, but it baffles me why Trump was talking to Woodward in the first place. His last book in 2018 was highly critical of Trump, and usually that sort thing prompts  undying antagonism from the POTUS. But here he is have multiple extensive conversations with Woodward...I don't get it.

Hubris - he thought he could control the narrative, paint a positive picture, and hold the book up as a monument to his greatness. It's the only thing that makes any sense.

As far as accountability goes, I see Woodward as a distant 6th. POTUS, his administration, elected officials in both house and senate (those that were silent and who profited by timely stock sales), FOX news, and conservative hangers on (evangelicals, OAN, etc.) all are more culpable IMO.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 10, 2020, 02:44:14 PM

Quote from: GB Warrior on September 10, 2020, 12:26:46 PM

Well it rings hollow coming from the man wit blood on his hands. It's wrong and he's wrong, but Woodward created a window of opportunity for him. Its an indictment of our time that we need our democratic infrastructure outside of Agent Orange to be above reproach, but we do, because Trump has shown he will lean on whataboutisms to no end.

So, bottom line is this, because you and I agree with who is to blame and that Trump's core base would be unmoved: I'm not outraged at Woodward as if he could have solved this, and I don't hold him up as some would-be savior. I'm (extreme dad voice) disappointed. It was a missed opportunity for journalism writ large and invited some valid critiques of media practices at a time where we need them at their best. And Woodward, in my opinion, fell short.

Seems we really don’t disagree too much on this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 10, 2020, 02:46:45 PM

Quote from: GB Warrior on September 10, 2020, 12:26:46 PM

Well it rings hollow coming from the man wit blood on his hands. It's wrong and he's wrong, but Woodward created a window of opportunity for him. Its an indictment of our time that we need our democratic infrastructure outside of Agent Orange to be above reproach, but we do, because Trump has shown he will lean on whataboutisms to no end.

So, bottom line is this, because you and I agree with who is to blame and that Trump's core base would be unmoved: I'm not outraged at Woodward as if he could have solved this, and I don't hold him up as some would-be savior. I'm (extreme dad voice) disappointed. It was a missed opportunity for journalism writ large and invited some valid critiques of media practices at a time where we need them at their best. And Woodward, in my opinion, fell short.

I think that's a reasonable position.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on September 10, 2020, 02:56:42 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on September 10, 2020, 01:36:18 PM

This is sort of a side discussion, but it baffles me why Trump was talking to Woodward in the first place. His last book in 2018 was highly critical of Trump, and usually that sort thing prompts  undying antagonism from the POTUS. But here he is have multiple extensive conversations with Woodward...I don't get it.

See former Sen. Claire McCaskil's rant using stupid about 20 times.

"Who thought talking to Bob Woodward, let alone 18 times, for a book that he told you was coming out before the election would help you in any way?"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 10, 2020, 03:16:04 PM

Quote from: naginiF on September 10, 2020, 01:44:58 PM

Hubris - he thought he could control the narrative, paint a positive picture, and hold the book up as a monument to his greatness. It's the only thing that makes any sense.

That's probably it. And he has gone through life without ever being held accountable for his actions, so it's easy to see how he developed this attitude.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 10, 2020, 03:25:27 PM

A new study warns the virus is ‘a life-threatening disease in people of all ages.’

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/10/world/covid-19-coronavirus.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage#link-39f95f8a

The research letter from Harvard found that among 3,222 young adults hospitalized with Covid-19, 88 died — about 2.7 percent. One in five required intensive care, and one in 10 needed a ventilator to assist with breathing.

Among those who survived, 99 patients, or 3 percent, could not be sent home from the hospital and were transferred to facilities for ongoing care or rehabilitation.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on September 10, 2020, 03:48:34 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 10, 2020, 03:25:27 PM

A new study warns the virus is ‘a life-threatening disease in people of all ages.’

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/10/world/covid-19-coronavirus.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage#link-39f95f8a

The research letter from Harvard found that among 3,222 young adults hospitalized with Covid-19, 88 died — about 2.7 percent. One in five required intensive care, and one in 10 needed a ventilator to assist with breathing.

Among those who survived, 99 patients, or 3 percent, could not be sent home from the hospital and were transferred to facilities for ongoing care or rehabilitation.

Interesting it was from over 400 hospitals in the US with young adults that had been hospitalized with covid of which most had underlying condition.  Love how headlines try to bring out the fear. 

The senior author of the research letter, Dr. Scott D. Solomon, a professor of medicine at Harvard, emphasized that despite the rise in coronavirus cases among young people, the proportion who become so sick that they require hospitalization remains low.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 10, 2020, 04:05:16 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on September 10, 2020, 03:48:34 PM

Interesting it was from over 400 hospitals in the US with young adults that had been hospitalized with covid of which most had underlying condition.  Love how headlines try to bring out the fear. 

The senior author of the research letter, Dr. Scott D. Solomon, a professor of medicine at Harvard, emphasized that despite the rise in coronavirus cases among young people, the proportion who become so sick that they require hospitalization remains low.

True, but if you read the publication itself, it still emphasizes the importance of prevention.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2770542?guestAccessKey=87e8344a-8e2f-4ca8-8e1a-95be53bbf71e&utm_source=silverchair&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=article_alert-jamainternalmedicine&utm_content=olf&utm_term=090920

Given the sharply rising rates of COVID-19 infection in young adults, these findings underscore the importance of infection prevention measures in this age group.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on September 10, 2020, 04:08:40 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 10, 2020, 04:05:16 PM

True, but if you read the publication itself, it still emphasizes the importance of prevention.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2770542?guestAccessKey=87e8344a-8e2f-4ca8-8e1a-95be53bbf71e&utm_source=silverchair&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=article_alert-jamainternalmedicine&utm_content=olf&utm_term=090920

Given the sharply rising rates of COVID-19 infection in young adults, these findings underscore the importance of infection prevention measures in this age group.

I get it we all need to be careful but those in the high risk categories need to be more careful

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 10, 2020, 04:17:43 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on September 10, 2020, 04:08:40 PM

I get it we all need to be careful but those in the high risk categories need to be more careful

What exactly does that mean? Lower risk people can wear a mask every other time they are in a social situation? They wash their hands every other time they touch some thing that might be contaminated?

It seems to me either you are careful or you aren’t.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on September 10, 2020, 05:44:57 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 10, 2020, 04:17:43 PM

What exactly does that mean? Lower risk people can wear a mask every other time they are in a social situation? They wash their hands every other time they touch some thing that might be contaminated?

It seems to me either you are careful or you aren’t.

maybe higher risk people attend school virtually or avoid situations that could present more risk.  The masks are not 100% cure all

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on September 10, 2020, 06:34:16 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on September 10, 2020, 05:44:57 PM

maybe higher risk people attend school virtually or avoid situations that could present more risk.  The masks are not 100% cure all

If I'm high risk, I do things like curbside groceries instead of going in (honestly everyone should do this). But absent everyone masking and doing the right thing for the common good, the only true option for high risk people is withdrawal from society.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 10, 2020, 06:48:34 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on September 10, 2020, 12:22:57 PM

Whether Woodward should have released the info earlier is a valid question question but irrelevant to the questions about the actions and mindset of the President, and should not be used to cloud that issue.

Bottom line?

President Woodward should have been more honest with the American people.  :-\

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on September 10, 2020, 07:35:23 PM

Quote from: Jockey on September 10, 2020, 06:48:34 PM

Bottom line?

President Woodward should have been more honest with the American people.  :-\

Do you get all of your material from the trends on twatter?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 10, 2020, 08:07:58 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on September 10, 2020, 07:35:23 PM

Do you get all of your material from the trends on twatter?

I don’t do twitter - or Facebook, Instagram, etc.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 11, 2020, 02:35:30 PM

So are we "rounding the corner" or we at a "disturbing" place in the pandemic? Depends on who you believe....

U.S. coronavirus data is ‘disturbing,’ Dr. Fauci says, disputing Trump’s claim that U.S. is ‘rounding the corner’

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/11/us-coronavirus-data-is-disturbing-dr-fauci-says-in-disputing-trump.html

“When you have a baseline of infections that are 40,000 per day and you have threats of increased test positivity in certain regions of the country, such as the Dakotas and Montana and places like that. ... You don’t want to start off already with a baseline that’s so high,” he said.

He added that the concerns are heightened by the approaching fall and winter seasons, which will likely push people indoors where the virus can spread more easily.

Fauci said the U.S. will be in a “more precarious situation” in the fall and winter and if the country continues to report the current level of new cases everyday, it will put the U.S. at “a disadvantage right from the very beginning.” Over the past couple of weeks, Fauci and other top health officials have repeatedly warned that cases must continue to decline as the country approaches colder weather. Earlier this month, Fauci said daily new cases were “unacceptably high” this close to fall.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 11, 2020, 03:53:27 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 11, 2020, 02:35:30 PM

So are we "rounding the corner" or we at a "disturbing" place in the pandemic? Depends on who you believe....

U.S. coronavirus data is ‘disturbing,’ Dr. Fauci says, disputing Trump’s claim that U.S. is ‘rounding the corner’

Really tough choice.

A guy who has never lied on record or a guy who has well upward of 20,000 verified lies over 3 1/2+ years.

Gonna have to think about it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on September 11, 2020, 06:33:11 PM

OT:

The stuff that's coming out from Woodward's time with Trump is absolutely bananas.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 11, 2020, 10:27:48 PM

Do not trust the CDC.


The Health & Human Services politically appointed communications aides have demanded the right to review and seek changes to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s weekly scientific reports charting the progress of the coronavirus pandemic, in what officials characterized as an attempt to intimidate the reports’ authors and water down their communications to health professionals.

In some cases, emails from communications aides to CDC Director Robert Redfield and other senior officials openly complained that the agency’s reports would undermine President Donald Trump's optimistic messages about the outbreak, according to emails reviewed by POLITICO and three people familiar with the situation.
CDC officials have fought back against the most sweeping changes, but have increasingly agreed to allow the political officials to review the reports and, in a few cases, compromised on the wording, according to three people familiar with the exchanges. The communications aides’ efforts to change the language in the CDC’s reports have been constant across the summer and continued as recently as Friday afternoon.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 12, 2020, 08:53:52 AM

Not that any of this is surprising since we’ve been discussing this since the beginning.  But here is the link to the prior posts clip.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/11/exclusive-trump-officials-interfered-with-cdc-reports-on-covid-19-412809 (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/11/exclusive-trump-officials-interfered-with-cdc-reports-on-covid-19-412809)

It’s so sad that optimism and realism somehow do not cross paths right now. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on September 12, 2020, 09:07:58 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 12, 2020, 08:53:52 AM

Not that any of this is surprising since we’ve been discussing this since the beginning.  But here is the link to the prior posts clip.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/11/exclusive-trump-officials-interfered-with-cdc-reports-on-covid-19-412809 (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/11/exclusive-trump-officials-interfered-with-cdc-reports-on-covid-19-412809)

It’s so sad that optimism and realism somehow do not cross paths right now.

I'm a healthcare professional.

This stuff is exactly why I won't be getting any vaccine that is released in the next couple years.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 12, 2020, 09:11:32 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on September 12, 2020, 09:07:58 AM

I'm a healthcare professional.

This stuff is exactly why I won't be getting any vaccine that is released in the next couple years.

Mission accomplished.  People who want to believe in govt don't trust....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 12, 2020, 09:43:40 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on September 12, 2020, 09:07:58 AM

I'm a healthcare professional.

This stuff is exactly why I won't be getting any vaccine that is released in the next couple years.

I feel the same way. I work on the regulatory side (research oversight) and have historically trusted FDA despite a few good faith mistakes in the past, but I have decided not to get a vaccine until it has been approved by both FDA and EMA.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 12, 2020, 10:20:39 AM

So just travel to Europe and get theirs...

Oh, wait a minute.

But seriously, Canada isn't far.

Oh, wait a minute.

Mexico? Oh we're still banned?

So we've turned the most widely accepted passport in the world into an ID card?   Neat.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 12, 2020, 10:27:26 AM

This is really sad news. The goal of trump and Putin is to destroy trust in American institutions. They have been successful.

Even worse, they are in the process of destroying our trust in the bedrock of democracy - fair elections.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 12, 2020, 10:48:52 AM

For those that think that the reason hard hit areas are keeping cases low due to breadth of spread or ‘burn through’ versus countermeasures. 


https://twitter.com/_miguelhernan/status/1304424019450630144?s=21 (https://twitter.com/_miguelhernan/status/1304424019450630144?s=21)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 12, 2020, 11:29:37 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 12, 2020, 10:48:52 AM

For those that think that the reason hard hit areas are keeping cases low due to breadth of spread or ‘burn through’ versus countermeasures. 


https://twitter.com/_miguelhernan/status/1304424019450630144?s=21 (https://twitter.com/_miguelhernan/status/1304424019450630144?s=21)

Interesting stuff.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on September 12, 2020, 12:09:21 PM

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-florida-bars-reopen/

Florida, who hasn't recovered like most outbreak states, is reopening bars.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on September 12, 2020, 12:33:50 PM

Quote from: Jockey on September 12, 2020, 11:29:37 AM

Interesting stuff.

I have said for months bars are a huge reason for the big spread.  Nobody will mask up in a bar you spend extended amount of time in close quarters and you are constantly talking and normally at a loud level.
The numbers with 20-29 year olds speaks to this as they are the ones that frequent the bars most often and really do not care cause numbers show covid does not hit them hard


Restaurants can be ok with limited capacity cause spacing can be maintained.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on September 12, 2020, 12:39:42 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on September 12, 2020, 10:20:39 AM

So just travel to Europe and get theirs...

Oh, wait a minute.

But seriously, Canada isn't far.

Oh, wait a minute.

Mexico? Oh we're still banned?

So we've turned the most widely accepted passport in the world into an ID card?   Neat.

Is this true? We have a Mexican trip planned for later this fall. Everything I see on the state department website says travel to mexico is open.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 12, 2020, 12:47:41 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on September 12, 2020, 12:39:42 PM

Is this true? We have a Mexican trip planned for later this fall. Everything I see on the state department website says travel to mexico is open.

Looks like you're right.  You're really going to travel to Mexico for fun during all of this?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 12, 2020, 02:28:25 PM

Quote from: Skatastrophy on September 12, 2020, 12:09:21 PM

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-florida-bars-reopen/

Florida, who hasn't recovered like most outbreak states, is reopening bars.

Great. Even places that have pretty much recovered, or at least tamped down new cases a bit, have done it largely by keeping bars closed.

But of course they won't see a spike in new cases in FL because DeSantis just won't test....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 12, 2020, 03:11:03 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette I on September 12, 2020, 02:28:25 PM

Great. Even places that have pretty much recovered, or at least tamped down new cases a bit, have done it largely by keeping bars closed.

But of course they won't see a spike in new cases in FL because DeSantis just won't test....

CT still hasn’t opened bars and put it off indefinitely.  We have done indoor dining at reduced capacity and have had that for quite some time. 

We are just starting to see signs of cases popping up the last couple weeks.  I think mostly college related.  We’ll see how folks react. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 12, 2020, 04:26:09 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 12, 2020, 03:11:03 PM

CT still hasn’t opened bars and put it off indefinitely.  We have done indoor dining at reduced capacity and have had that for quite some time. 

We are just starting to see signs of cases popping up the last couple weeks.  I think mostly college related.  We’ll see how folks react.

Smart. Bars are the one place where social distancing and masks just seem so contrary to the way they’ve always operated. In fact, the majority of the most frightening pics I have seen have been at bars or private parties (often the ‘substitute’ for going to a bar). People go to those places to drink, talk and get close to each other.

It sucks for those who own and operate bars, but I just don’t see how they can be responsibly opened while the pandemic is ongoing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 13, 2020, 08:41:47 AM

New Cases Have Reached Record Levels in the Midwest

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/09/13/us/coronavirus-cases-midwest.html?action=click&algo=bandit-all-surfaces-geo&block=more_in_recirc&fellback=false&imp_id=855612279&impression_id=d149c7d0-f5c4-11ea-b49d-5b2d7f73e22d&index=0&pgtype=Article&region=footer&req_id=476337709&surface=more-in-us-news

Nationally, new coronavirus cases reported daily dropped to fewer than 40,000 in mid-September from a peak of more than 66,000 cases in late July. But that trend overlooks the pandemic’s complicated geography. Improvement in one region can come amid increased suffering in another.

Through Friday, North Dakota, South Dakota, Missouri and Iowa had added more recent cases per capita than all other states. As restrictions were loosened around the country, some local governments in the Midwest urged people to take the virus more seriously, and considered possible new limits on bars and face mask requirements in public.

--------------------

And if positive cases aren't enough, the positivity rate is alarmingly high in many midwest states. Currently at 19% in South Dakota, 16% in Kansas, 15% in Iowa, 13% in Missouri and 12% in Wisconsin.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-testing.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on September 13, 2020, 09:01:57 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on September 12, 2020, 10:20:39 AM

So just travel to Europe and get theirs...

Oh, wait a minute.

But seriously, Canada isn't far.

Oh, wait a minute.

Mexico? Oh we're still banned?

So we've turned the most widely accepted passport in the world into an ID card?   Neat.

Not to nit pick but the USA passport wasn't the most widely accepted and is tied at 16

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on September 13, 2020, 10:42:01 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on September 12, 2020, 12:47:41 PM

Looks like you're right.  You're really going to travel to Mexico for fun during all of this?

Yes.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 13, 2020, 04:24:21 PM

Israel to reinstate strict three-week coronavirus lockdown

https://thehill.com/policy/international/middle-east-north-africa/516214-israel-to-reinstate-strict-three-week

And their resurgence began when they opened up their schools.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/04/world/middleeast/coronavirus-israel-schools-reopen.html

—————————-

Fortunately, many schools that are reopening in the US are taking precautions that were ignored in Israel. Still, I worry about some of the schools in the southern states wear masks continue to be optional.

I hope we don’t get to that point, but this roller coaster still seems to have a ways to go.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on September 13, 2020, 04:59:30 PM

Orwellian
https://twitter.com/GOPChairwoman/status/1305220707085889536

Ronna McDaniel
@GOPChairwoman
Joe Biden can’t run from his disastrous record responding to the coronavirus.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on September 13, 2020, 05:20:44 PM

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/01/27/coronavirus-donald-trump-made-us-less-prepared-joe-biden-column/4581710002/

January 27.    Warned it was coming.    Warned that Trump was uniquely unqualified to handle it.    Next question.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 13, 2020, 05:41:38 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on September 13, 2020, 04:59:30 PM

Orwellian
https://twitter.com/GOPChairwoman/status/1305220707085889536

Ronna McDaniel
@GOPChairwoman
Joe Biden can’t run from his disastrous record responding to the coronavirus.

Ronna McDaniel has always been a spectacular liar. That is why she is head of the GOP.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 13, 2020, 05:50:56 PM

Quote from: tower912 on September 13, 2020, 05:20:44 PM

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/01/27/coronavirus-donald-trump-made-us-less-prepared-joe-biden-column/4581710002/

January 27.    Warned it was coming.    Warned that Trump was uniquely unqualified to handle it.    Next question.

The unfortunate thing is that most of Trump's supporters will never even hear about this article, much less read it. They will just hear the "nobody could have seen this coming" spin that they've been hearing all along.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on September 13, 2020, 07:42:37 PM

And he tweeted a warning on October 25, 2019.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 13, 2020, 11:36:58 PM

Sigh ... He is still downplaying it. I guess to prevent "panic."

From the AP:

In clear and open defiance of Nevada state regulations and his own administration’s pandemic health guidelines, President Trump hosted his first indoor rally since June, claiming to a packed, nearly mask-less crowd that the nation was “making the last turn” in defeating the virus.

Not since a rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma, a Trump campaign disaster that was blamed for a surge of coronavirus infections, has he gathered supporters indoors.

The pandemic had killed nearly 200,000 in the U.S., is still claiming 1,000 lives a day, and has infected more than 6.5 million.

By wide margins, Americans have disapproved of Trump’s leadership, as the nation has suffered more virus deaths than any other. The president’s campaign believes it needs to change the subject and project the sense, despite evidence otherwise, that the pandemic is winding down and that a vaccine is on the horizon.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on September 14, 2020, 09:36:42 AM

Popular St. Louis Cardinal Baseball Amateur/Area Scout, Charles Peterson, passed away from COVID-19 over the weekend. He was just 46 years old.

Two sport star athlete out of South Carolina, Charles led his high school to state titles in both football and baseball. He caught the winning TD in football state title game. He was drafted in the MLB first round by Pittsburgh and he made it to AAA ball.

He covered South Carolina, Georgia, and North Florida for the Cardinals, and he was close with many youth, high school, and college coaches in the region. He was responsible for the Cardinals first round draft pick this year, Jordan Walker. He helped coach his son's high school football team, while also running an amateur baseball training facility.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 14, 2020, 09:38:49 AM

A stunning disregard for life from the fake pro-lifer.

Hard to know who is dumber - the president or his supporters. I would say it’s his supporters cuz they’re the ones who are gonna die.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on September 14, 2020, 01:28:05 PM

Interesting thread from the Chair of UC San Francisco Medical:

https://twitter.com/bob_wachter/status/1304254207688667137

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 14, 2020, 01:51:53 PM

Bob Woodward’s hours of interviews with Donald Trump have yielded yet another confirmation that Trump does not care about the lives of ordinary Americans, including his own supporters.

In an April 13 interview, Trump says the coronavirus is “so easily transmissible, you wouldn't even believe it. I was in the White House a couple of days ago. Meeting of 10 people in the Oval Office. And a guy sneezed, innocently. Not a horrible—just a sneeze. The entire room bailed out, okay? Including me, by the way.”


So before April 13, even with all of the testing being done on people in proximity to Trump, people in the White House were seriously afraid of being in a room with a person showing any kind of symptoms at all. On April 13, Trump got up and held a news briefing in which he insisted: “Everything we did was right.”

On April 17, as CNN’s Manu Raju pointed out, Trump tweeted “LIBERATE MICHIGAN!” as part of his push to reopen. Around the same time, Trump called on governors to reopen “very, very quickly, depending on what they want to do.” On April 28, it was: “Many States moving to SAFELY & QUICKLY reopen!”

Except Mr. “The entire room bailed out … including me” knew damn well it wasn’t safe, as the entire nation spent the summer learning.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 14, 2020, 03:11:44 PM

More of the same:

Over the weekend, multiple news outlets broke the story that Trump's appointed assistant secretary of public affairs in the Department of Health and Human Services and his assistants have been watering down or blocking key reports from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention known as the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Reports. Not only have Michael Caputo and aide Paul Alexander been engaged in ongoing battle with CDC scientists over findings that contradict Trump's own rosy claims, during the nationwide COVID-19 pandemic, but they have done so while accusing CDC scientists of writing "hit pieces" meant to damage the administration—and the claims both men have made, in confronting CDC scientists, have been so broadly conspiratorial in nature as to raise questions about both men's fitness for the job.

Those questions are now going to be on the top of the agenda, because Trump appointee Caputo has responded to the allegations against him with an absolutely batcrap Facebook video in which Caputo accuses CDC scientists with "sedition" for the content of their reports, claims an anti-Trump "resistance unit" is operating inside the CDC, claims he is in real personal danger of being killed by anti-Trump forces, and launched into a string of off-the-rails conspiracy theories that culminated in him urging Trump supporters to "buy ammunition" in preparation for a Biden attempt to seize the presidency from Trump

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 14, 2020, 03:23:21 PM

Quote from: Jockey on September 14, 2020, 03:11:44 PM

More of the same:

Over the weekend, multiple news outlets broke the story that Trump's appointed assistant secretary of public affairs in the Department of Health and Human Services and his assistants have been watering down or blocking key reports from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention known as the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Reports. Not only have Michael Caputo and aide Paul Alexander been engaged in ongoing battle with CDC scientists over findings that contradict Trump's own rosy claims, during the nationwide COVID-19 pandemic, but they have done so while accusing CDC scientists of writing "hit pieces" meant to damage the administration—and the claims both men have made, in confronting CDC scientists, have been so broadly conspiratorial in nature as to raise questions about both men's fitness for the job.

Those questions are now going to be on the top of the agenda, because Trump appointee Caputo has responded to the allegations against him with an absolutely batcrap Facebook video in which Caputo accuses CDC scientists with "sedition" for the content of their reports, claims an anti-Trump "resistance unit" is operating inside the CDC, claims he is in real personal danger of being killed by anti-Trump forces, and launched into a string of off-the-rails conspiracy theories that culminated in him urging Trump supporters to "buy ammunition" in preparation for a Biden attempt to seize the presidency from Trump

The horrifying thing is that people will actually believe this crap, and some really may go out and buy extra ammo in preparation for Election Day.

They seem totally oblivious to the potential impact they are having on both the fight against COVID and the future of our country...all in the name of winning the election and stroking Trump's fragile ego. Just wow....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on September 14, 2020, 04:04:49 PM

I look forward to seeing the spin away from Trump's voice on tape saying he undersold the severity of the virus from the beginning.  Woodward told him that he was taping.   DJT said it anyway.   Proudly.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 14, 2020, 04:47:46 PM

Well, it turns out there was a 19th conversation between Trump and Woodward, on Aug. 14, after the book had already gone to the printer.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/14/politics/trump-bob-woodward-final-phone-call/index.html

If Trump weren't such a horrible human being, one might feel sorry for him. He sounded so desperate, so pathetic, after Woodward told him the book was going to be "tough" and that the pandemic will be foremost on voters' minds.

Trump kept trying to bring it back to the "stock market is coming back" and "the stock market is near a record." It's obvious that he thinks the economy and the stock market are the same thing ... even though any first-year business major at any college knows that isn't close to being true.

Trump: "So you think the virus totally supersedes the economy?"

Woodward: "Oh sure. But they're related, as you know."

Trump: "A little bit, yeah."

Woodward: "Oh, a little bit?"

Trump: "I mean, more than a little bit. But the economy is doing -- look, we're close to a new stock market record."

He thinks the average voter cares more about the stock market than 200K deaths, millions of unemployed, businesses shuttered, and lives ruined by the total lack of leadership this nation received when we needed it most. He also STILL doesn't seem to get that the economy won't have a chance of getting back near it was until the virus is under control.

Later, seeking absolution, as if Woodward were a priest, the deeply wounded Trump pleaded: "Nothing more could have been done."

Listening to the President of the United States pleading with the author of a book ... it was effen sad.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 14, 2020, 05:03:12 PM

The admissions on those tapes would have ended the presidency of anyone other than Donald Trump. The incompetence, and the insulation from the consequences of his actions, are just mind-boggling.

It really does give a Jim Jones aura to his followers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 14, 2020, 05:47:27 PM

Can you imagine what Citizen Trump would be twittering -- 100 times a day -- if this all had happened under Hillary's watch?

He might have broken Twitter.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on September 14, 2020, 05:55:40 PM

Quote from: tower912 on September 14, 2020, 04:04:49 PM

I look forward to seeing the spin away from Trump's voice on tape saying he undersold the severity of the virus from the beginning.  Woodward told him that he was taping.   DJT said it anyway.   Proudly.

Just so I'm clear... You think a recording of trump saying something bad will hurt his re-election chances?

As opposed to the "grab her by the kitten" recording?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 14, 2020, 06:10:34 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on September 14, 2020, 05:55:40 PM

Just so I'm clear... You think a recording of trump saying something bad will hurt his re-election chances?

As opposed to the "grab her by the kitten" recording?

You are correct - probably not a much more than blip, if that.

Jim Jones, David Koresh, now DJT. The True Believers will follow him anywhere.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: naginiF on September 14, 2020, 06:30:58 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on September 14, 2020, 05:55:40 PM

Just so I'm clear... You think a recording of trump saying something bad will hurt his re-election chances?

As opposed to the "grab her by the kitten" recording?

FWIW, and not speaking for Tower, but I read his post as 'spin away from the obvious evidence that Trump values $ of humans and specifically Americans to still support him'. Not that they would spin away from Trump.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on September 14, 2020, 06:42:42 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on September 14, 2020, 05:55:40 PM

Just so I'm clear... You think a recording of trump saying something bad will hurt his re-election chances?

As opposed to the "grab her by the kitten" recording?

Yes.   His approval numbers haven't improved in months.   Libertarians and the Greens are unlikely to repeat the nearly 9 million votes they pulled in 2016.   The cumulative effect of all of these revelations is to insure he doesn't expand beyond his base.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on September 14, 2020, 07:37:02 PM

HELLO.

Let's bring the politics down about 7 notches, ok?   

Thank you for your cooperation.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on September 15, 2020, 03:02:26 PM

Dr. Li-Meng Yan?

Claims covid-19 was indeed engineered in wuhan.  Ok. Debunked, but plausible.

But also claims Fauci knew all about it and even funded it?

Sounds like someone is looking for attention.

https://www.techtimes.com/amp/articles/252545/20200915/new-evidence-covid-19-whistleblower-dr-li-meng-yan-blames-dr-fauci-for-outbreak-coverup.htm

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 15, 2020, 03:39:35 PM

Quote from: Jockey on September 14, 2020, 03:11:44 PM

More of the same:

Over the weekend, multiple news outlets broke the story that Trump's appointed assistant secretary of public affairs in the Department of Health and Human Services and his assistants have been watering down or blocking key reports from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention known as the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Reports. Not only have Michael Caputo and aide Paul Alexander been engaged in ongoing battle with CDC scientists over findings that contradict Trump's own rosy claims, during the nationwide COVID-19 pandemic, but they have done so while accusing CDC scientists of writing "hit pieces" meant to damage the administration—and the claims both men have made, in confronting CDC scientists, have been so broadly conspiratorial in nature as to raise questions about both men's fitness for the job.

Those questions are now going to be on the top of the agenda, because Trump appointee Caputo has responded to the allegations against him with an absolutely batcrap Facebook video in which Caputo accuses CDC scientists with "sedition" for the content of their reports, claims an anti-Trump "resistance unit" is operating inside the CDC, claims he is in real personal danger of being killed by anti-Trump forces, and launched into a string of off-the-rails conspiracy theories that culminated in him urging Trump supporters to "buy ammunition" in preparation for a Biden attempt to seize the presidency from Trump

That didn't age well....

Covid-19 Live Updates: Michael Caputo, Trump Health Official, Apologizes for Facebook Outburst, Considers Leave of Absence

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/15/world/covid-coronavirus.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 15, 2020, 04:05:22 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on September 15, 2020, 03:02:26 PM

Dr. Li-Meng Yan?

Claims covid-19 was indeed engineered in wuhan.  Ok. Debunked, but plausible.

But also claims Fauci knew all about it and even funded it?

Sounds like someone is looking for attention.

https://www.techtimes.com/amp/articles/252545/20200915/new-evidence-covid-19-whistleblower-dr-li-meng-yan-blames-dr-fauci-for-outbreak-coverup.htm

Twitter docs claiming the research was funded by an institute that was directed by one S Bannon and the NY Post is involved in publicizing.  I don’t know whats up with this but this puts me in the camp of letting it play out for a week or two before I put any effort into understanding this controversy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 15, 2020, 04:16:08 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 15, 2020, 04:05:22 PM

Twitter docs claiming the research was funded by an institute that was directed by one S Bannon and the NY Post is involved in publicizing.  I don’t know whats up with this but this puts me in the camp of letting it play out for a week or two before I put any effort into understanding this controversy.

Agreed. Americans making a virus in a Chinese lab directed by Bannon, funded by Fauci and now publicized by the Post? Sounds like she is just throwing sh!t at the wall to see what sticks.

If I’m wrong, I definitely won’t be the only one…

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on September 15, 2020, 04:55:52 PM

I overheard a vendor at the Skokie Farmers Market ( don’t bother with it, go to Evanston instead) telling someone that the virus was developed in a lab in North Carolina and flown to Wuhan, and related it to the civil unrest in China and now here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on September 15, 2020, 07:34:23 PM

So what is the endgame?  When do things get back to normal?  I have heard fauci say maybe even late 2021, but when will people feel comfortable living normally again.  Going to sporting events, not having a mask on or going out to the bars?

The idea of the lockdown was to flatten the curve so that hospitals are not overwhelmed.  Curve maybe was flattened in some places but hospitals have for sure not been overwhelmed at least in WI.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 15, 2020, 07:41:43 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on September 15, 2020, 07:34:23 PM

So what is the endgame?  When do things get back to normal?  I have heard fauci say maybe even late 2021, but when will people feel comfortable living normally again.  Going to sporting events, not having a mask on or going out to the bars?

The idea of the lockdown was to flatten the curve so that hospitals are not overwhelmed.  Curve maybe was flattened in some places but hospitals have for sure not been overwhelmed at least in WI.

We haven’t been ‘locked down’ for quite some time.  Only Israel has gone back to it.  So I guess the question is for you.  When you going to a bar or movie next?

Collectively I would guess it takes at least until this time next year (assuming vaccine or better treatment).  Next summer better than this summer.   Until then ebb and flow of restrictions or people removing themselves from ‘normal’ activity. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on September 15, 2020, 07:45:48 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on September 15, 2020, 07:34:23 PM

So what is the endgame?  When do things get back to normal?  I have heard fauci say maybe even late 2021, but when will people feel comfortable living normally again.  Going to sporting events, not having a mask on or going out to the bars?

The idea of the lockdown was to flatten the curve so that hospitals are not overwhelmed.  Curve maybe was flattened in some places but hospitals have for sure not been overwhelmed at least in WI.

The endgame is to get "herd immunity" without killing too many people.  Keeping the economy somewhat afloat is probably the next in line.  That can't happen without the first thing happening.  A vaccine is the most likely route to herd immunity.

By commenting on the "lockdown" (there was none), I don't feel like you understand the word "pandemic" very well though?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on September 15, 2020, 07:53:05 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 15, 2020, 07:41:43 PM

We haven’t been ‘locked down’ for quite some time.  Only Israel has gone back to it.  So I guess the question is for you.  When you going to a bar or movie next?

Collectively I would guess it takes at least until this time next year (assuming vaccine or better treatment).  Next summer better than this summer.   Until then ebb and flow of restrictions or people removing themselves from ‘normal’ activity.

Can never ask a question on this board to get peoples thoughts without a smart ass remark.  Have not been to a bars in 25 years so kiss my ass!!  Just looking for thoughts on the end game.
The initial lockdown was supposed to be to flatten the curve i never said anything about going back to lockdown

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 15, 2020, 07:58:17 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on September 15, 2020, 07:53:05 PM

Can never ask a question on this board to get peoples thoughts without a smart ass remark.  Have not been to a bars in 25 years so kiss my ass!!  Just looking for thoughts on the end game.
The initial lockdown was supposed to be to flatten the curve i never said anything about going back to lockdown

It wasn’t a smart ass response.  You ask a personal question—you should volunteer a personal opinion

Since may or so people have had choice for the most part.  Much of the economic carnage has been either consumption being reduced or changed to other areas of the economy. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on September 15, 2020, 08:00:42 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on September 15, 2020, 07:53:05 PM

Can never ask a question on this board to get peoples thoughts without a smart ass remark.  Have not been to a bars in 25 years so kiss my ass!!  Just looking for thoughts on the end game.
The initial lockdown was supposed to be to flatten the curve i never said anything about going back to lockdown

Perhaps you read it as smart ass, but that could also be how your "flatten the curve" comment. sounded.  I've attached the US curves to date.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on September 15, 2020, 08:31:04 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on September 14, 2020, 07:37:02 PM

HELLO.

Let's bring the politics down about 7 notches, ok?   

Thank you for your cooperation.

thank you topper!  just trying to catch up and looks like the usual need to try yoga or zumba or something

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Its DJOver on September 16, 2020, 08:15:02 AM

Quote from: injuryBug on September 15, 2020, 07:34:23 PM

So what is the endgame?  When do things get back to normal?  I have heard fauci say maybe even late 2021, but when will people feel comfortable living normally again.  Going to sporting events, not having a mask on or going out to the bars?

The idea of the lockdown was to flatten the curve so that hospitals are not overwhelmed.  Curve maybe was flattened in some places but hospitals have for sure not been overwhelmed at least in WI.

Define "normal". I'm not sure things will ever get back to a pre-Covid normal.  I think you're going to see much larger pushes to get annual flu shots, significantly stronger hand washing campaigns, long term changes to traditional "office" settings, and a much higher percentage of people wearing masks strictly as a precaution.  IMO wearing a mask is such a minor inconvenience that I'll be wearing one when out in public for the foreseeable future, even as other aspects of my life "get back to normal".

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on September 16, 2020, 08:15:22 AM

Quote from: Jockey on September 14, 2020, 03:11:44 PM

More of the same:

Over the weekend, multiple news outlets broke the story that Trump's appointed assistant secretary of public affairs in the Department of Health and Human Services and his assistants have been watering down or blocking key reports from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention known as the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Reports. Not only have Michael Caputo and aide Paul Alexander been engaged in ongoing battle with CDC scientists over findings that contradict Trump's own rosy claims, during the nationwide COVID-19 pandemic, but they have done so while accusing CDC scientists of writing "hit pieces" meant to damage the administration—and the claims both men have made, in confronting CDC scientists, have been so broadly conspiratorial in nature as to raise questions about both men's fitness for the job.

Those questions are now going to be on the top of the agenda, because Trump appointee Caputo has responded to the allegations against him with an absolutely batcrap Facebook video in which Caputo accuses CDC scientists with "sedition" for the content of their reports, claims an anti-Trump "resistance unit" is operating inside the CDC, claims he is in real personal danger of being killed by anti-Trump forces, and launched into a string of off-the-rails conspiracy theories that culminated in him urging Trump supporters to "buy ammunition" in preparation for a Biden attempt to seize the presidency from Trump

Only the best people

Michael Caputo Will Resign Position, Citing “Mental Health” Break
https://hillreporter.com/michael-caputo-will-resign-position-citing-mental-health-break-78996

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on September 16, 2020, 10:38:35 AM

FWIW, an article in one of my trade magazines surveyed CEOs.  80% said business still will not see a full recovery by Summer 2021. 

Dr. Fauci said best case a vaccine will not be "widely" available to the public until mid-2021,then extrapolate herd immunity through vaccination from there.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 16, 2020, 12:46:45 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on September 16, 2020, 08:15:22 AM

Only the best people

Michael Caputo Will Resign Position, Citing “Mental Health” Break
https://hillreporter.com/michael-caputo-will-resign-position-citing-mental-health-break-78996

Theoretically, only a 60-day leave of absence.

\https://www.axios.com/michael-caputo-leave-absence-3278bb36-6bda-4478-9614-70a74b1b27da.html

It is hard to believe that a member of this calm, collected, reasoned, reasonable administration would have a crazy, conspiracy-theory-filled, hateful outburst on social media.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 16, 2020, 01:29:44 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on September 16, 2020, 10:38:35 AM

FWIW, an article in one of my trade magazines surveyed CEOs.  80% said business still will not see a full recovery by Summer 2021. 

Dr. Fauci said best case a vaccine will not be "widely" available to the public until mid-2021,then extrapolate herd immunity through vaccination from there.

That seems like a reasonable educated guesstimate..with the emphasis on it being a 'best case' scenario. The current delay with the Astra Zeneca vaccine is more the rule than the exception, so it would be great if we can have widespread vaccination by mid-2021.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 16, 2020, 07:14:14 PM

Speaking of Covid: As his press conference today, "If you take the blue states out, we're at a level I don't think anybody in the world would be at," Trump stated sedately.

How is it even possible to be that stupid?


Also, "If you don't count the games that the Dodgers won, they are the worst baseball team in the world".

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on September 16, 2020, 07:18:59 PM

Quote from: Jockey on September 16, 2020, 07:14:14 PM

Speaking of Covid: As his press conference today, "If you take the blue states out, we're at a level I don't think anybody in the world would be at," Trump stated sedately.

How is it even possible to be that stupid?


Also, "If you don't count the games that the Dodgers won, they are the worst baseball team in the world".

He's right you know. *Checks data* Yup, those damn blue states of Texas, Arkansas, and Florida...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on September 16, 2020, 07:20:40 PM

Quote from: Jockey on September 16, 2020, 07:14:14 PM

Speaking of Covid: As his press conference today, "If you take the blue states out, we're at a level I don't think anybody in the world would be at," Trump stated sedately.

How is it even possible to be that stupid?


Also, "If you don't count the games that the Dodgers won, they are the worst baseball team in the world".

But yet those blue states definitely aren't responsible for "his" economy. Or they are. Or they weren't, but now they are. Or...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 16, 2020, 07:40:03 PM

Quote from: Jockey on September 16, 2020, 07:14:14 PM

Speaking of Covid: As his press conference today, "If you take the blue states out, we're at a level I don't think anybody in the world would be at," Trump stated sedately.

How is it even possible to be that stupid?


Also, "If you don't count the games that the Dodgers won, they are the worst baseball team in the world".

It's not stupidity.  It's callousness because, since those people don't help him, he doesn't feel their lives have as much value.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on September 16, 2020, 07:52:20 PM

My bad.   All along, I have been following infection and death rates in all 50 states.   Shame on me.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 16, 2020, 08:23:38 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on September 16, 2020, 07:40:03 PM

It's not stupidity.  It's callousness because, since those people don't help him, he doesn't feel their lives have as much value.

You’re right. Callousness is much better than stupid.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 16, 2020, 11:23:17 PM

During an event at Hillsdale College, Attorney General William Barr suggested that the calls for a nationwide lockdown to prevent the spread of the coronavirus were the "greatest intrusion on civil liberties" in history "other than slavery”.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on September 17, 2020, 08:09:59 AM

I was just reading about Hillsdale College in the recent Connecticut Magazine.. I didn't realize they were all about pushing fringe outlandish discredited Constitutional theories.

The article was about the 105 year old founder of Friendly's ice cream and restaurants.  He sold his house in Somers, CT which is a replica of Thomas Jefferson's Monticello to Hillsdale.  The house is in the middle of a very residential neighborhood.  They went to the town to use it for educational seminars.  After some controversy the town approved with all kind of day, hour, number of people, and parking restrictions.  Hillsdale did not like the conditions so they came back and filed for "religious seminars and teaching".  And there is some federal law on religion that the town cannot counter sue because they will automatically lose because of the law and also have to pay legal fees of the other party.  The town was pissed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on September 17, 2020, 09:48:37 AM

Living in Michigan, as soon as I hear 'Hillsdale', I assume politics I will disagree with.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 17, 2020, 01:49:55 PM

Quote from: tower912 on September 17, 2020, 09:48:37 AM

Living in Michigan, as soon as I hear 'Hillsdale', I assume politics I will disagree with.

Being a Packers fan, I hear Hillsdale College and think Chester Marcol.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on September 17, 2020, 03:27:17 PM

Related to upticks in cases, and "close to home",  after months of no Covid cases at my workplace, we've now had 3 positives in the past week (folks that had been in the office).  There were a few right at the beginning of all this, before they sent most people to WFH, but nothing since.  The office has been at 50% capacity for months. Guessing this is the "labor day" bump in cases, but concerning since it's largely been controlled among my coworkers until now. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on September 17, 2020, 03:30:32 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on September 17, 2020, 03:27:17 PM

Guessing this is the "labor day" bump in cases, but concerning since it's largely been controlled among my coworkers until now. 

With no evidence: I think a reasonable guess, along with the holiday, is everyone's kids going back to school.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on September 17, 2020, 03:35:06 PM

Quote from: Skatastrophy on September 17, 2020, 03:30:32 PM

With no evidence: I think a reasonable guess, along with the holiday, is everyone's kids going back to school.

Concur, that could be, but most every school district around my work is full virtual at least until later in Sept, or Oct sometime.

Nonetheless, an uptick in positive cases is starting to develop nationwide.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 17, 2020, 03:47:07 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on September 17, 2020, 03:35:06 PM

Concur, that could be, but most every school district around my work is full virtual at least until later in Sept, or Oct sometime.

Nonetheless, an uptick in positive cases is starting to develop nationwide.

And the midwest is leading the way. The top states for cases per 100,000 residents over the past 7 days:

1. North Dakota
2. South Dakota
3. Missouri
4. Wisconsin
5. Arkansas
6. Iowa

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage#hotspots

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 17, 2020, 04:05:12 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 17, 2020, 03:47:07 PM

And the midwest is leading the way. The top states for cases per 100,000 residents over the past 7 days:

1. North Dakota
2. South Dakota
3. Missouri
4. Wisconsin
5. Arkansas
6. Iowa

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage#hotspots

Quite a few of those within motorcycle driving distance of Sturgis...  Plus schools, plus colleges, plus labor day...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 17, 2020, 04:53:50 PM

Olivia Troye, a former Mike Pence aide and member of the White House Covid task Force, condemned Trump for once saying in a meeting that the coronavirus was a good thing because he wouldn’t have to shake hands with as many people. “I don’t like shaking hands with people,” Troye recalled the president saying. “I don’t have to shake hands with these disgusting people.”


Yup.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 17, 2020, 06:58:10 PM

I wish I was surprised by this, but I am not....

C.D.C. Testing Guidance Was Published Against Scientists’ Objections

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/17/health/coronavirus-testing-cdc.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

A heavily criticized recommendation from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention last month about who should be tested for the coronavirus was not written by C.D.C. scientists and was posted to the agency’s website despite their serious objections, according to several people familiar with the matter as well as internal documents obtained by The New York Times.

The guidance said it was not necessary to test people without symptoms of Covid-19 even if they had been exposed to the virus. It came at a time when public health experts were pushing for more testing rather than less, and administration officials told The Times that the document was a C.D.C. product and had been revised with input from the agency’s director, Dr. Robert Redfield.

But officials told The Times this week that the health department did the rewriting itself and then “dropped” it into the C.D.C.’s public website, flouting the agency’s strict scientific review process.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 17, 2020, 07:17:17 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 17, 2020, 06:58:10 PM

I wish I was surprised by this, but I am not....

C.D.C. Testing Guidance Was Published Against Scientists’ Objections

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/17/health/coronavirus-testing-cdc.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

A heavily criticized recommendation from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention last month about who should be tested for the coronavirus was not written by C.D.C. scientists and was posted to the agency’s website despite their serious objections, according to several people familiar with the matter as well as internal documents obtained by The New York Times.

The guidance said it was not necessary to test people without symptoms of Covid-19 even if they had been exposed to the virus. It came at a time when public health experts were pushing for more testing rather than less, and administration officials told The Times that the document was a C.D.C. product and had been revised with input from the agency’s director, Dr. Robert Redfield.

But officials told The Times this week that the health department did the rewriting itself and then “dropped” it into the C.D.C.’s public website, flouting the agency’s strict scientific review process.

The Killer promised less testing,...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on September 17, 2020, 08:18:24 PM

Nm

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on September 17, 2020, 08:42:05 PM

Stop.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 17, 2020, 08:49:58 PM

I am imposing a suspension on myself for at least 3 days.

I don’t think what I said is factually wrong. But it is not appropriate in this forum and was said in a fashion that is not proper.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 17, 2020, 09:19:05 PM

Quote from: Jockey on September 17, 2020, 08:49:58 PM

I am imposing a suspension on myself for at least 3 days.

I don’t think what I said is factually wrong. But it is not appropriate in this forum and was said in a fashion that is not proper.

Please don’t!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on September 17, 2020, 10:49:32 PM

Quote from: Jockey on September 17, 2020, 08:49:58 PM

I am imposing a suspension on myself for at least 3 days.

I don’t think what I said is factually wrong. But it is not appropriate in this forum and was said in a fashion that is not proper.

jocksniff beat the rock and/or topper to it except 3 days is about 48 short

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on September 18, 2020, 01:21:51 AM

Quote from: Jockey on September 17, 2020, 08:49:58 PM

I am imposing a suspension on myself for at least 3 days.

I don’t think what I said is factually wrong. But it is not appropriate in this forum and was said in a fashion that is not proper.

I'll accept that.  But when you return, I expect you to consider "does this do anything to help the current conversation" before you click the post button.  If not, we can give you more time to figure that out.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on September 18, 2020, 01:46:45 AM

The beat article I've read yet on the rona.

Factual, non-political, and in people terms.

https://elemental.medium.com/amp/p/30430384e5a5?source=social.tw&__twitter_impression=true (https://elemental.medium.com/amp/p/30430384e5a5?source=social.tw&__twitter_impression=true)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 18, 2020, 07:23:48 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on September 18, 2020, 01:46:45 AM

The beat article I've read yet on the rona.

Factual, non-political, and in people terms.

https://elemental.medium.com/amp/p/30430384e5a5?source=social.tw&__twitter_impression=true (https://elemental.medium.com/amp/p/30430384e5a5?source=social.tw&__twitter_impression=true)

Can we all declare that listening to VanWingen is 'dumb and dangerous'?

Of all the life improving learning since the depths of March, learning that surfaces not a major risk is right up there.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 18, 2020, 07:46:54 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on September 18, 2020, 01:46:45 AM

The beat article I've read yet on the rona.

Factual, non-political, and in people terms.

https://elemental.medium.com/amp/p/30430384e5a5?source=social.tw&__twitter_impression=true (https://elemental.medium.com/amp/p/30430384e5a5?source=social.tw&__twitter_impression=true)

Wear a mask.  Social distance. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 18, 2020, 08:30:40 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on September 18, 2020, 01:46:45 AM

The beat article I've read yet on the rona.

Factual, non-political, and in people terms.

https://elemental.medium.com/amp/p/30430384e5a5?source=social.tw&__twitter_impression=true (https://elemental.medium.com/amp/p/30430384e5a5?source=social.tw&__twitter_impression=true)

Good find, Ziggy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 18, 2020, 08:40:53 AM

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3563.full?ijkey=fb7IwiBWN21zMIF&keytype=ref

Interesting study showing possible partial immunity in larger chunk of population then previously thought.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on September 18, 2020, 09:32:47 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on September 18, 2020, 07:46:54 AM

Wear a mask.  Social distance.

Science isn't settled, scientists are reassessing this every day.

Offers some perspective on the ups and downs and changes in direction of the last 6 months.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 18, 2020, 09:47:04 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on September 18, 2020, 09:32:47 AM

Science isn't settled, scientists are reassessing this every day.

Offers some perspective on the ups and downs and changes in direction of the last 6 months.

Absolutely right. But based on what we know today, those are still the best tools most people have to mitigate their chances of getting the virus.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 18, 2020, 11:30:33 AM

This is an article on who to follow on Twitter for good COVID info.  These people are, well people, so if you are offended by non Covid opinions some may not be what you are looking for.  That being said I started following a good portion of these folks a few months ago and feel much better informed for it. 

https://elemental.medium.com/50-experts-to-trust-in-a-pandemic-fe58932950e7 (https://elemental.medium.com/50-experts-to-trust-in-a-pandemic-fe58932950e7)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on September 18, 2020, 02:23:00 PM

I said it to MUGURU when he asked what could have been done differently and I say it again now.

Putting Jared in charge of the response may have been the worst decision of all.


Government doesn't have a role?

Let the states and market decide?

Wow.

Can you imagine that kind of response on 12/7/41 or 9/11/01?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on September 18, 2020, 02:26:54 PM

Quote from: tower912 on September 18, 2020, 02:23:00 PM

I said it to MUGURU when he asked what could have been done differently and I say it again now.

Putting Jared in charge of the response may have been the worst decision of all.


Government doesn't have a role?

Let the states and market decide?

Wow.

Can you imagine that kind of response on 12/7/41 or 9/11/01?

Secretary of Failure

Intercepting PPP that individual states paid for and then putting up to the highest bidder? Criminal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 18, 2020, 02:38:53 PM

Email evidence of some pretty nasty harassment of career CDC scientists by political appointees.

Emails Detail Effort to Silence C.D.C. and Question Its Science

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/18/us/politics/trump-cdc-coronavirus.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

At the same time, Mr. Caputo moved to punish the C.D.C.’s communications team for granting interviews to NPR and attempting to help a CNN reporter reach him about a public-relations campaign. Current and former C.D.C. officials called it a five-month campaign of bullying and intimidation.

For instance, after Mr. Caputo forwarded the critique of Dr. Schuchat to Dr. Redfield, C.D.C. officials became concerned when a member of the health department’s White House liaison office — Catherine Granito — called the agency to ask questions about Dr. Schuchat’s biography, leaving the impression that some in Washington could have been searching for ways to fire her.

In another instance, Mr. Caputo wrote to C.D.C. communications officials on July 15 to demand they turn over the name of the press officer who approved a series of interviews between NPR and a longtime C.D.C. epidemiologist, after the department in Washington had moved to take ownership of the agency’s pandemic data collection.

“I need to know who did it,” Mr. Caputo wrote. A day later, still without a reply, Mr. Caputo wrote back. “I have not received a response to my email for 20 hours. This is unacceptable,” he said. “I need this information to properly manage department communications. If you disobey my directions, you will be held accountable.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on September 18, 2020, 04:55:44 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 18, 2020, 11:30:33 AM

This is an article on who to follow on Twitter for good COVID info.  These people are, well people, so if you are offended by non Covid opinions some may not be what you are looking for.  That being said I started following a good portion of these folks a few months ago and feel much better informed for it. 

https://elemental.medium.com/50-experts-to-trust-in-a-pandemic-fe58932950e7 (https://elemental.medium.com/50-experts-to-trust-in-a-pandemic-fe58932950e7)

 
  was looking pretty good until i got to tedros adhanom ghebreyesus, then i lost my appetite. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on September 20, 2020, 08:19:14 AM

NY Times Front Page 100,000 Dead Bodies vs 200,000 Dead Bodies.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on September 20, 2020, 08:55:03 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on September 20, 2020, 08:19:14 AM

NY Times Front Page 100,000 Dead Bodies vs 200,000 Dead Bodies.

I think that people are underestimating how bad this winter is going to be. I expect there to be more lockdowns, and hopefully the first vestiges of a competent federal response to this crisis.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 20, 2020, 09:33:39 AM

Quote from: Skatastrophy on September 20, 2020, 08:55:03 AM

I think that people are underestimating how bad this winter is going to be. I expect there to be more lockdowns, and hopefully the first vestiges of a competent federal response to this crisis.

Agreed. We have made progress in what we know about the virus and how to treat it...but:

We know the virus spreads more rapidly inside, and we are just getting to the part of the year where people spend more time inside. We know masks decrease the spread, but a substantial portion of the population still refuses to wear them. We know large social gatherings are a particular problem, but house parties and motorcycle rallies (Sturgis last month, Lake of the Ozarks this weekend) continue to occur. And the numbers are rapidly climbing in the upper midwest before we see even the first frost.

We are already seeing round 2 of the lockdown in Israel, and many places in the EU that had the virus contained are contemplating new restrictions.

And the vaccines that some originally said might come before the end of the year are now likely to begin in mid-2021 if things go well...and will likely take 2 or 3 spread out doses to achieve some reasonable level of immunity.

I wish there were reasons for more optimism, but leadership failures combined with human behavior have given little hope for improvement over the winter.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 20, 2020, 02:25:35 PM

Mayo launches nationwide COVID-19 prediction machine

https://www.postbulletin.com/newsmd/coronavirus/6666002-Mayo-launches-nationwide-COVID-19-prediction-machine

The new Mayo Clinic tracking website in question has no unique, catchy name. But if its claims to accuracy bear out, the health system's new COVID-19 forecasting tool has the potential to leap past all other dashboards hoping to connect consumers with the best information about the virus.

That's because the new website at mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19 -- see, it wasn't catchy -- does more than rewrite the latest reports out of the CDC, or even react to events in the news.

Instead, it taps into the clinic's locally predictive mathematical modelling software for the virus, then applies those calculations to the latest testing data from every county across the nation.

On top of all that, it packages its predictions all alongside the latest in Mayo-vetted information about the virus. If you haven't noticed, getting trusted information about COVID-19 has been no socially distanced walk in the park.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on September 20, 2020, 04:07:45 PM

Quote from: Skatastrophy on September 20, 2020, 08:55:03 AM

I think that people are underestimating how bad this winter is going to be. I expect there to be more lockdowns, and hopefully the first vestiges of a competent federal response to this crisis.

Talked to the HS trainer here in town last week and he read about a study done by yale on the impact of covid to the flu and other virus' that might be out there.  The study showed that the body can only get infected with 1 virus and when that leaves it stimulates the antibodies to fight off another virus.  So we will see nobody really knows anything at this point

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 20, 2020, 05:20:53 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on September 20, 2020, 04:07:45 PM

Talked to the HS trainer here in town last week and he read about a study done by yale on the impact of covid to the flu and other virus' that might be out there.  The study showed that the body can only get infected with 1 virus and when that leaves it stimulates the antibodies to fight off another virus.  So we will see nobody really knows anything at this point

Do you have a link to that study?  I’ve always heard it is absolutely possible to be infected by two viruses at once. 

Maybe Forgetful or Gooo can correct my non scientific impression

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 20, 2020, 06:15:34 PM

I would like to see the article too. As for the premise that the body can only be infected with one virus at a time, ask anyone who has herpes or HIV (which are with a person for life) whether they ever got the flu or a cold afterwards. Answer: people can get infected with multiple viruses.

That said, there is some research to indicate that having one virus (like the cold) might make you less susceptible to another (like the flu). It is unclear why, but theories range from the infection putting your immune system into overdrive, to the simple fact that once you get one illness you are less likely to go out and catch the other. Again the research I am aware of does not say it is impossible to catch another virus, just that it is less likely. Here is one such study from about a year ago.

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/52/27142

Perhaps there is something that Yale researchers found to add to this, but if they indeed discovered that it was impossible to be co-infected with the flu and Covid at the same time, it would have made headlines everywhere.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on September 20, 2020, 06:22:14 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 20, 2020, 06:15:34 PM

I would like to see the article too. As for the premise that the body can only be infected with one virus at a time, ask anyone who has herpes or HIV (which are with a person for life) whether they ever got the flu or a cold afterwards. Answer: people can get infected with multiple viruses.

That said, there is some research to indicate that having one virus (like the cold) might make you less susceptible to another (like the flu). It is unclear why, but theories range from the infection putting your immune system into overdrive, to the simple fact that once you get one illness you are less likely to go out and catch the other. Again the research I am aware of does not say it is impossible to catch another virus, just that it is less likely. Here is one such study from about a year ago.

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/52/27142

Perhaps there is something that Yale researchers found to add to this, but if they indeed discovered that it was impossible to be co-infected with the flu and Covid at the same time, it would have made headlines everywhere.

Do not have the article but he mentioned the test was with covid and H1N1.  Like you said it put the immune system in overdrive.  The reasoning was because they are both upper respiratory.  I will reach abck and and see if he can send me what he was reading

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on September 20, 2020, 06:52:11 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on September 20, 2020, 06:22:14 PM

Do not have the article but he mentioned the test was with covid and H1N1.  Like you said it put the immune system in overdrive.  The reasoning was because they are both upper respiratory.  I will reach abck and and see if he can send me what he was reading

That's very much different than "you can't get 2 viruses at the same time."

That would mean you couldn't be infected by HIV, Hepatitis, HPV or any number of other chronic viruses and also get the flu.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 20, 2020, 07:21:37 PM

One other thing I didn’t mention above. Once you recover from a virus, you are again as susceptible to others as you were previously. Just think of all the times you’ve had a cold or flu, recovered, and a couple weeks later got a different cold or flu. So whatever ‘protection’ you get from one virus is limited.

Putting that into the context of the flu and Covid, you might get the flu, recover, and then be just as susceptible to Covid as you were previously.

Again, perhaps the Yale researchers found something more. But if this is all it is, it is hardly big news.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on September 21, 2020, 08:44:32 AM

Quote from: injuryBug on September 20, 2020, 06:22:14 PM

Do not have the article but he mentioned the test was with covid and H1N1.  Like you said it put the immune system in overdrive.  The reasoning was because they are both upper respiratory.  I will reach abck and and see if he can send me what he was reading

Gooo already hit on this, but you can absolutely have two viruses at the same time. And patients have already had co-infections of the flu and COVID. It is still unknown if having both at the same time has any affect on severity.

There is some data that suggest that prior infections or vaccinations may provide some benefit as it heightens the general immune response. There was some data suggesting that the old TB vaccine was providing some protection against COVID in this manner. But that data is very limited, so I remain skeptical.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on September 21, 2020, 08:47:48 AM

https://news.yale.edu/2020/09/04/common-cold-combats-influenza

The article referenced is likely this. Data suggesting that infection with a rhinovirus may decrease susceptibility to H1N1. Doctors make clear that there is no data on how this or if this would have any validity to COVID, as it is a completely different virus.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Lens on September 21, 2020, 10:36:41 AM

One consideration for flu season is with so many people (especially kids) masked up, spread of the flu could be down.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on September 21, 2020, 11:02:49 AM

Quote from: The Lens on September 21, 2020, 10:36:41 AM

One consideration for flu season is with so many people (especially kids) masked up, spread of the flu could be down.

My daughter saw her pediatrician the end of August and they offered the flu shot while she was there. 
The doctor said they expected a low flu year because everyone was wearing masks, extra hand sanitizing, and additional cleaning at most places.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on September 21, 2020, 11:04:11 AM

Quote from: The Lens on September 21, 2020, 10:36:41 AM

One consideration for flu season is with so many people (especially kids) masked up, spread of the flu could be down.

South America had a milder flu seasons because in addition to masking, you are seeing the practices that are good at preventing the flu.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/08/26/906323250/from-the-global-south-hints-that-u-s-may-be-spared-flu-on-top-of-covid-19 (https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/08/26/906323250/from-the-global-south-hints-that-u-s-may-be-spared-flu-on-top-of-covid-19)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 21, 2020, 01:46:39 PM

I didn’t post this when it made the news over the weekend since aerosol transmission is pretty widely accepted at this point. 

Now that ‘somehow’ it’s being pulled back and ‘posted in error’, it’s just another gross example of the terrible/inconsistent communication and political meddling in the response to the pandemic.  We really can and should expect better. 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-can-spread-by-tiny-air-particles-cdc-now-says-11600700364 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-can-spread-by-tiny-air-particles-cdc-now-says-11600700364)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 21, 2020, 02:08:22 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 21, 2020, 01:46:39 PM

I didn’t post this when it made the news over the weekend since aerosol transmission is pretty widely accepted at this point. 

Now that ‘somehow’ it’s being pulled back and ‘posted in error’, it’s just another gross example of the terrible/inconsistent communication and political meddling in the response to the pandemic.  We really can and should expect better. 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-can-spread-by-tiny-air-particles-cdc-now-says-11600700364 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-can-spread-by-tiny-air-particles-cdc-now-says-11600700364)

This whole back and forth the administration is playing with the CDC is disgusting. All a way of casting doubt on science, experts and an orderly response to the virus.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on September 21, 2020, 05:02:13 PM

This guy should not be allowed to retire without an ethics probe

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/21/media/fauci-redstate-nih/index.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on September 22, 2020, 10:28:05 AM

20,000 American Flags on the National Mall for 200,000 American COVID-19 deaths.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on September 22, 2020, 01:30:43 PM

200,000.  Woot.   I will never get tired of winning.

The equivalent of Fayetteville wiped from the map.   Working our way toward Tacoma and Des Moines.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on September 22, 2020, 01:48:15 PM

Latest IHME projection is 300,000 dead by end of year.  And that is the best case scenario.

Do Americans care?  Nope.  Not if we have to change our lives to accommodate others.

 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on September 22, 2020, 03:46:08 PM

Question about the flu .. if you google "where does flu virus strains originate" .. the answer is generally "Asia / southeast Asia".

If there's no travel allowed to/from those areas anymore .. how would it get transmitted to the US?

I'd bet on a record low flu year. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on September 22, 2020, 03:48:59 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on September 22, 2020, 03:46:08 PM

Question about the flu .. if you google "where does flu virus strains originate" .. the answer is generally "Asia / southeast Asia".

If there's no travel allowed to/from those areas anymore .. how would it get transmitted to the US?

I'd bet on a record low flu year.

Hope you are right.  That with the fact that someone else mentioned that since people will be more careful due to COVID-19,  the flu season should be lighter than most.  Hopefully that will save 10k-20k lives.  Some offset to the impending COVD deaths.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 22, 2020, 03:52:18 PM

You can travel to Asia.  It's not 100% cut off by any means.  The flu will be here but for many reasons will likely be less widespread.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 22, 2020, 03:55:44 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on September 22, 2020, 03:46:08 PM

Question about the flu .. if you google "where does flu virus strains originate" .. the answer is generally "Asia / southeast Asia".

If there's no travel allowed to/from those areas anymore .. how would it get transmitted to the US?

I'd bet on a record low flu year.

The viruses that may cause the flu this fall might already be here. Lots of people with ‘Covid-like symptoms’ have tested negative, so we might have summertime levels of flu already circulating and ready to spread more widely when people head back inside.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on September 22, 2020, 04:35:45 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on September 22, 2020, 03:46:08 PM

Question about the flu .. if you google "where does flu virus strains originate" .. the answer is generally "Asia / southeast Asia".

If there's no travel allowed to/from those areas anymore .. how would it get transmitted to the US?

I'd bet on a record low flu year.

The flu circulates the globe readily. Strains originate from all over the world, including the US. The Spanish Flu originated in the US or Mexico in swine populations. Other strains are constantly circulating in the population, both domestically and abroad.

They simply spread more readily in the winter "flu seasons", in more temperate/seasonal climates.

One reason for the idea that they "come from Asia" is that in East Asia there is a large population base not too far from the equator, where there really aren't seasons. That means that H3N2 strains can circulate in that population continuously and often aggressively, and then new strains of H3N2 can circulate from that reservoir. Historically there is widespread tracking of this reservoir.

That isn't the case with H1N1 strains, or other new strains that emerge from animal populations. Those emerge anywhere.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Sir Lawrence on September 22, 2020, 05:22:23 PM

Quote from: forgetful on September 22, 2020, 04:35:45 PM

The Spanish Flu originated in the US or Mexico in swine populations. Other strains are constantly circulating in the population, both domestically and abroad.

Earlier this year I read somewhere that the CDC's scientists were able to map the genome of the Spanish flu and determined that it was avian in nature.  Could have originated in the US, or Britain or France or who knows.  Probably not Spain. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on September 22, 2020, 05:31:24 PM

Well, as long as we don't think CDC Flu data is being mucked with, then it's generally good right now, unless you're in Iowa!  Look out Illinois!

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on September 22, 2020, 05:56:49 PM

Quote from: Sir Lawrence on September 22, 2020, 05:22:23 PM

Earlier this year I read somewhere that the CDC's scientists were able to map the genome of the Spanish flu and determined that it was avian in nature.  Could have originated in the US, or Britain or France or who knows.  Probably not Spain.

You are right. Most likely avian in nature. Also most likely from North America.

https://www.nature.com/news/study-revives-bird-origin-for-1918-flu-pandemic-1.14723

I didn't know about the possible equine origins/overlaps discussed in the link though.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on September 22, 2020, 07:01:01 PM

Reporter: "Why haven't you said anything about 200,000 deaths?

Answer: "Anybody else?"

https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1308536259892174850?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on September 22, 2020, 07:45:44 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on September 22, 2020, 07:01:01 PM

Reporter: "Why haven't you said anything about 200,000 deaths?

Answer: "Anybody else?"

https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1308536259892174850?s=19

We're at 257,000 excess deaths so far in 2020. Coronavirus is being severely undercounted, but it's harder to hide people being dead.

The New York Times is doing a good job tracking excess deaths, specifically: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/05/us/coronavirus-death-toll-us.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on September 22, 2020, 07:46:52 PM

Behind only cancer and heart disease.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on September 22, 2020, 08:34:18 PM

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1308209927274536961?s=19 (https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1308209927274536961?s=19)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on September 23, 2020, 06:01:17 PM

Non-elected Missouri Governor Mike Parson has been a big anti-masker. He has previously deferred to local authorities throughout the state on all things pandemic. He has previously said, "You don't need the government to tell you to wear a dang mask. If you want to wear a mask, wear a mask."

He has been seen at many events without a mask throughout the pandemic.

Today, Missouri Governor Mike Parson and his wife announce they have tested positive for COVID-19.

They of course still aren't interested in wearing masks or encouraging others to do so.

He will have to reschedule his debate with opponent Nicole Galloway as he will be in quarantine.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 23, 2020, 06:03:46 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on September 23, 2020, 06:01:17 PM

Non-elected Missouri Governor Mike Parson has been a big anti-masker. He has previously deferred to local authorities throughout the state on all things pandemic. He has previously said, "You don't need the government to tell you to wear a dang mask. If you want to wear a mask, wear a mask."

He has been seen at many events without a mask throughout the pandemic.

Today, Missouri Governor Mike Parson and his wife announce they have tested positive for COVID-19.

They of course still aren't interested in wearing masks or encouraging others to do so.

He will have to reschedule his debate with opponent Nicole Galloway as he will be in quarantine.

You can't fake that level of stupid.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on September 23, 2020, 06:05:14 PM

2020 2H's slogan: The Comeuppaning.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: naginiF on September 23, 2020, 06:33:14 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on September 23, 2020, 06:01:17 PM

Non-elected Missouri Governor Mike Parson has been a big anti-masker. He has previously deferred to local authorities throughout the state on all things pandemic. He has previously said, "You don't need the government to tell you to wear a dang mask. If you want to wear a mask, wear a mask."

He has been seen at many events without a mask throughout the pandemic.

Today, Missouri Governor Mike Parson and his wife announce they have tested positive for COVID-19.

They of course still aren't interested in wearing masks or encouraging others to do so.

He will have to reschedule his debate with opponent Nicole Galloway as he will be in quarantine.

As a MO resident I'm embarrassed by our state elected officials recently and am super grateful for how strong of a leader Mayor Lucas has been for KC. Galloway needs to insist on a virtual debate to highlight the ineptitude of the R's (check out how Parsons got his office).

The fact that we have a talent like Jason Kander in our back yard and didn't elect him to state office tells you all you need to know about rural MO (or the outer suburbs and rural parts of any midwest state). Side note: Kander pulling himself out of public life to address his PTSD is an incredible act of bravery on his part.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on September 23, 2020, 07:40:03 PM

Quote from: naginiF on September 23, 2020, 06:33:14 PM

As a MO resident I'm embarrassed by our state elected officials recently and am super grateful for how strong of a leader Mayor Lucas has been for KC. Galloway needs to insist on a virtual debate to highlight the ineptitude of the R's (check out how Parsons got his office).

The fact that we have a talent like Jason Kander in our back yard and didn't elect him to state office tells you all you need to know about rural MO (or the outer suburbs and rural parts of any midwest state). Side note: Kander pulling himself out of public life to address his PTSD is an incredible act of bravery on his part.

That's all accurate.

For comparison to the Governor, St. Louis County Executive an Anesthesiologist by trade (and his wife) has yet to allow any contact sports, football, soccer etc in St. Louis County, basing his decision on COVID-19 data. St. Louis City has had even more restrictions.

Other counties have been playing all sports. And now you are beginning to see a few schools schedule games in different counties just to play them. It's a mess. And of course the Illinois side of that Metro moved fall sports to Spring.

Meanwhile the Governor and his wife will be in quarantine a while.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on September 23, 2020, 08:01:09 PM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/

"The Pentagon funneled nearly $1,000,000,000 of taxpayer money meant for masks and medical equipment to defense contractors building jet engines and body armor."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on September 23, 2020, 08:58:57 PM

And Illinois has parents and students organizing protests demanding to play fall sports ( it’s really about football) on the basis that the surrounding states are playing. One student was quoted as asserting his right to take the chance of getting infected.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 23, 2020, 09:36:29 PM

Quote from: forgetful on September 22, 2020, 04:35:45 PM

The flu circulates the globe readily. Strains originate from all over the world, including the US. The Spanish Flu originated in the US or Mexico in swine populations. Other strains are constantly circulating in the population, both domestically and abroad.

They simply spread more readily in the winter "flu seasons", in more temperate/seasonal climates.

One reason for the idea that they "come from Asia" is that in East Asia there is a large population base not too far from the equator, where there really aren't seasons. That means that H3N2 strains can circulate in that population continuously and often aggressively, and then new strains of H3N2 can circulate from that reservoir. Historically there is widespread tracking of this reservoir.

That isn't the case with H1N1 strains, or other new strains that emerge from animal populations. Those emerge anywhere.

Don’t forget “even your strenuous flus.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on September 23, 2020, 09:51:48 PM

Ja Morant: Joey Hauser :: Anthony Fauci: Rand Paul

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on September 24, 2020, 10:09:14 AM

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/24/close-to-100-accuracy-airport-enlists-sniffer-dogs-to-test-for-covid-19

Woof!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on September 24, 2020, 12:25:48 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on September 24, 2020, 10:09:14 AM

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/24/close-to-100-accuracy-airport-enlists-sniffer-dogs-to-test-for-covid-19

Woof!

This should reduce the per test cost down to one milkbone.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on September 24, 2020, 01:41:29 PM

Who do you trust more regarding COVID-19 information?

https://twitter.com/ryanstruyk/status/1308832034106806275?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: naginiF on September 24, 2020, 02:01:54 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on September 24, 2020, 01:41:29 PM

Who do you trust more regarding COVID-19 information?

https://twitter.com/ryanstruyk/status/1308832034106806275?s=19

It's been said before but bears repeating....when you see your leader as the only provider of truth and believe him over experts at any cost you are in a cult.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on September 24, 2020, 02:09:07 PM

Related, FBI Director Christopher Wray:

 "I would encourage people to be critical thinkers, and to get their news from a variety of sources and make up their own mind and be a skeptical, discerning electorate — which is what I think is the best defense against malign foreign influence" https://t.co/EGHKdmqUgi

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on September 24, 2020, 10:02:14 PM

The United States has surpassed 7,000,000 cases of COVID-19.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 24, 2020, 11:04:18 PM

Mayo program focuses on post-COVID syndrome

https://www.postbulletin.com/newsmd/coronavirus/6676912-Mayo-program-focuses-on-post-COVID-syndrome

Engen's condition, post-COVID syndrome, is one that experts struggle to quantify. It's presumed to be a fraction of those infected. One estimate puts the number of COVID-19 patients who later develop chronic issues at 10 percent. But that would represent hundreds of thousand of patients, given the millions that have been infected in the U.S.
...
These are patients that no longer have the virus, but are still suffering the withering effects of deconditioning, inflammation and other side effects of the illness.

The program serves people severely impacted by the disease, including post-ICU patients. But it also treated a Navy Seal, distance runners and people like Engen, whose symptoms started off as mild but then ratcheted up to something worse.

————————

More people need to recognize that death is not the only significant consequence of this illness, and that serious long-term problems aren’t limited to patients with pre-existing conditions.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on September 25, 2020, 11:18:04 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 24, 2020, 11:04:18 PM

More people need to recognize that death is not the only significant consequence of this illness, and that serious long-term problems aren’t limited to patients with pre-existing conditions.

Not necessarily significant (that we know), but one of my coworkers still can't smell or taste anything 2+ months after testing negative (after obviously testing positive). 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on September 25, 2020, 11:22:10 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on September 25, 2020, 11:18:04 AM

Not necessarily significant (that we know), but one of my coworkers still can't smell or taste anything 2+ months after testing negative (after obviously testing positive).

I've been curious, is it taste/smell anything or is it more like after some people have strokes or other issues and need super salty, Smokey, Spicey flavors to get any taste whatsoever?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on September 25, 2020, 11:31:24 AM

Florida Man:

https://twitter.com/JonLemire/status/1309530248975876107?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on September 25, 2020, 11:31:54 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on September 25, 2020, 11:22:10 AM

I've been curious, is it taste/smell anything or is it more like after some people have strokes or other issues and need super salty, Smokey, Spicey flavors to get any taste whatsoever?

I'll enquire next time we chat.  As I understood, it was everything.  Was drinking cheap/bad wine in a virtual happy hour because it didn't matter.  Could only feel the burn of whiskey after swallowing, no flavors.  But as you can tell, my questions mostly involved adult beverages :)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on September 25, 2020, 11:35:03 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on September 25, 2020, 11:31:54 AM

I'll enquire next time we chat.  As I understood, it was everything.  Was drinking cheap/bad wine in a virtual happy hour because it didn't matter.  Could only feel the burn of whiskey after swallowing, no flavors.  But as you can tell, my questions mostly involved adult beverages :)

Honestly my mind went straight Islay Scotch and strong Mezcal. my GF's dad drinks those after he lost taste and smell from a stroke now it's the only two drinks he can taste

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 25, 2020, 01:28:05 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on September 25, 2020, 11:31:24 AM

Florida Man:

https://twitter.com/JonLemire/status/1309530248975876107?s=19

There are a lot of bad decisions being made. Check out the brilliant decision in North Dakota, home of the highest per capita case rate over the past 7 days:

https://www.inforum.com/newsmd/coronavirus/6677727-North-Dakota-rescinds-quarantine-order-for-close-contacts-in-defiance-of-federal-health-guidelines

I guess having the highest per capita rate isn't enough....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 25, 2020, 01:57:56 PM

Father of BYU OL Tristen Hoge says Hoge has pneumonia after contracting COVID-19

https://sports.yahoo.com/father-of-byu-ol-tristen-hoge-says-hoge-has-pneumonia-after-contracting-covid-19-212117876.html

Hoge, a senior, transferred to BYU from Notre Dame and has been a starter on the Cougars’ offensive line. Marty Hoge said in his video that his son’s coronavirus case should be a reminder for people to take the virus seriously.

“Those of you who are skeptical of ‘man it’s just a cold or a cough’ and no effects — man, I gotta admit that I was maybe one of them,” Hoge said. “But when it hits home, you’ve got to keep it real.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 25, 2020, 02:08:35 PM

Since the Wisconsin thread is just a pissing contest between FIBS and guys who wear cheese on their heads, I will post this here.

Wisconsin on Thursday logged the highest number of people hospitalized with the coronavirus since the pandemic began, and reported nearly 2,400 new coronavirus cases, the second-highest daily case count ever.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on September 25, 2020, 02:11:55 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 25, 2020, 01:57:56 PM

Father of BYU OL Tristen Hoge says Hoge has pneumonia after contracting COVID-19

https://sports.yahoo.com/father-of-byu-ol-tristen-hoge-says-hoge-has-pneumonia-after-contracting-covid-19-212117876.html

Hoge, a senior, transferred to BYU from Notre Dame and has been a starter on the Cougars’ offensive line. Marty Hoge said in his video that his son’s coronavirus case should be a reminder for people to take the virus seriously.

“Those of you who are skeptical of ‘man it’s just a cold or a cough’ and no effects — man, I gotta admit that I was maybe one of them,” Hoge said. “But when it hits home, you’ve got to keep it real.”

I have a very healthy, fit young adult relative that wasn't feeling off and on for about 10 days recently. He just toughened it out.

Symptoms would come and go. Cough attacks, some seemingly cold and/or food allergy type symptoms.
Suddenly early evening one night, intense pain lower left side of abdomen. Urgent Care, COVID-19 Negative. Hospital Emergency stop same night. He had an infection and pneumonia. However, his fluid was not a typical lower lung location and instead waa scattered outside of the lung and was more of a pudding type substance. Two days later, and a Cardio-Thoracic Lung Surgeon later, all of it was removed during a 1.5 to 2 hour procedure to prevent further infection and complications. The surgeon does 1-2 of them per week in healthy 20 something's to 90 somethings.

My relative went home a week later and is recovering slowly with ample nerve pain over the next 2-4 weeks. but, otherwise fine. He is fortunate.

Gotta take the virus seriously, as well as any mental, physical, emotional health matters.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 25, 2020, 02:23:07 PM

Quote from: Jockey on September 25, 2020, 02:08:35 PM

Since the Wisconsin thread is just a pissing contest between FIBS and guys who wear cheese on their heads, I will post this here.

Wisconsin on Thursday logged the highest number of people hospitalized with the coronavirus since the pandemic began, and reported nearly 2,400 new coronavirus cases, the second-highest daily case count ever.

Something like this would probably move the topic back on track.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 25, 2020, 02:51:50 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on September 25, 2020, 02:23:07 PM

Something like this would probably move the topic back on track.

You would think so, right? But I tried posting something like this in the Wisconsin thread a day or two ago, and it didn’t even register.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 25, 2020, 02:54:36 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 25, 2020, 02:51:50 PM

You would think so, right? But I tried posting something like this in the Wisconsin thread a day or two ago, and it didn’t even register.

I mean, what are we supposed to do or say that hasn't been done or said dozens of times already?

Cases are going up.  Hospitalizations are going up.  Deaths will follow.

Hopefully it won't be a repeat of New York in April or Texas, Florida and Arizona this summer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 25, 2020, 03:00:48 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on September 25, 2020, 02:54:36 PM

I mean, what are we supposed to do or say that hasn't been done or said dozens of times already?

Cases are going up.  Hospitalizations are going up.  Deaths will follow.

Hopefully it won't be a repeat of New York in April or Texas, Florida and Arizona this summer.

You answered your own question. That kind of response would’ve been a lot more on topic than the stuff that is being discussed in the Wisconsin thread right now.

And FWIW, today’s news isn’t just that cases and hospitalizations are going up; it’s that COVID hospitalizations reached a new all-time high for Wisconsin. That’s pretty significant.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 25, 2020, 06:12:49 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on September 25, 2020, 02:54:36 PM

I mean, what are we supposed to do or say that hasn't been done or said dozens of times already?

Cases are going up.  Hospitalizations are going up.  Deaths will follow.

Hopefully it won't be a repeat of New York in April or Texas, Florida and Arizona this summer.

Maybe don't say anything for a change.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on September 25, 2020, 07:32:18 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on September 23, 2020, 06:01:17 PM

Non-elected Missouri Governor Mike Parson has been a big anti-masker. He has previously deferred to local authorities throughout the state on all things pandemic. He has previously said, "You don't need the government to tell you to wear a dang mask. If you want to wear a mask, wear a mask."

He has been seen at many events without a mask throughout the pandemic.

Today, Missouri Governor Mike Parson and his wife announce they have tested positive for COVID-19.

They of course still aren't interested in wearing masks or encouraging others to do so.

He will have to reschedule his debate with opponent Nicole Galloway as he will be in quarantine.

And here come the record nunber of cases. The Anti-Mask rural counties venture into the larger urban metros putting others there at risk. And, those COVID-19 positive rural counties have reached hospital capacity so they have to transfer patients to the larger 3 million pop  metro areas.

Meanwhile the Anti Mask COVID-19 Governor quarantines.

https://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/health-med-fit/coronavirus/missouri-reports-record-number-of-covid-19-hospitalizations/article_f52b9d40-f8dd-53ef-9aaf-ba9f1cddd367.amp.html?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_stltoday&__twitter_impression=true

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on September 25, 2020, 07:53:50 PM

 Ralph Northam wore a mask all the way back and college and he still tested positive

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 25, 2020, 08:14:21 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on September 25, 2020, 07:32:18 PM

And here come the record nunber of cases. The Anti-Mask rural counties venture into the larger urban metros putting others there at risk. And, those COVID-19 positive rural counties have reached hospital capacity so they have to transfer patients to the larger 3 million pop  metro areas.

Meanwhile the Anti Mask COVID-19 Governor quarantines.

https://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/health-med-fit/coronavirus/missouri-reports-record-number-of-covid-19-hospitalizations/article_f52b9d40-f8dd-53ef-9aaf-ba9f1cddd367.amp.html?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_stltoday&__twitter_impression=true

And as the article says, a record number of hospitalizations.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on September 25, 2020, 08:37:35 PM

Quote from: Jockey on September 25, 2020, 08:14:21 PM

And as the article says, a record number of hospitalizations.

And there's more...immediately after the Governor and his wife finish quarantine, they are moving full steam ahead hosting a fall festival and other activities. Zero cancellations, masks not required.

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/missouris-first-lady-moves-ahead-with-fall-festival-at-end-of-covid-19-isolation-period/article_3323451b-aa96-505a-af9a-80c23ade46ee.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 25, 2020, 08:42:48 PM

Quote from: Jockey on September 25, 2020, 06:12:49 PM

Maybe don't say anything for a change.

Yeah I’m gonna take advice from someone whose “contributions” to topics are mindless political banter.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 25, 2020, 08:46:31 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on September 25, 2020, 08:37:35 PM

And there's more...immediately after the Governor and his wife finish quarantine, they are moving full steam ahead hosting a fall festival and other activities. Zero cancellations, masks not required.

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/missouris-first-lady-moves-ahead-with-fall-festival-at-end-of-covid-19-isolation-period/article_3323451b-aa96-505a-af9a-80c23ade46ee.html

Some people are really slow learners. The whole “masks optional“ thing is mind boggling.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 25, 2020, 09:44:47 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 25, 2020, 08:46:31 PM

Some people are really slow learners. The whole “masks optional“ thing is mind boggling.

We all know why they won’t make masks mandatory.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 25, 2020, 09:48:11 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on September 25, 2020, 08:42:48 PM

Yeah I’m gonna take advice from someone whose “contributions” to topics are mindless political banter.

Put me on ignore.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on September 25, 2020, 09:56:30 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 25, 2020, 08:46:31 PM

Some people are really slow learners. The whole “masks optional“ thing is mind boggling.

They don't want to cancel  events or require masks because the Governor is in a very close race Nov 3rd. Their base is the rural Anti-Mask crowd. Downplaying the virus is their strategy, even if they have the virus themselves, even if everything is falling apart around them. (insert your own jokes here)

Parson's 38 year old female CPA opponent, Nicole Galloway is the popular State Auditor and former Boone County (Columbia, MO/Mizzou Treasurer. She of course is Pro-Mask. She will need to rack up all of the urban/suburban votes in St. Louis, Columbia, Kansas City to offset his large anti-mask rural counties base.

So, there is no chance the Parson family is going to change their plans now. COVID-19, cases, hospitalizations, deaths, public health, empathy, decency, don't matter to them. Personal power and $ is what matters to them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on September 25, 2020, 10:04:12 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on September 25, 2020, 09:56:30 PM

They don't want to cancel  events or require masks because the Governor is in a very close race Nov 3rd. Their base is the rural Anti-Mask crowd. Downplaying the virus is their strategy, even if they have the virus themselves, even if everything is falling apart around them. (insert your own jokes here)

Parson's 38 year old female CPA opponent, Nicole Galloway is the popular State Auditor and former Boone County (Columbia, MO/Mizzou Treasurer. She of course is Pro-Mask. She will need to rack up all of the urban/suburban votes in St. Louis, Columbia, Kansas City to offset his large anti-mask rural counties base.

So, there is no chance the Parson family is going to change their plans now. COVID-19, cases, hospitalizations, deaths, public health, empathy, decency, don't matter to them. Personal power and $ is what matters to them.

Similar thing happening in Indiana

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on September 25, 2020, 10:38:12 PM

The DT Administration took $300 million from the CDC in June, mid-pandemic. Where did it go? Sigh.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/25/trump-hhs-ads-coronavirus-421957

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on September 25, 2020, 11:50:13 PM

It’s not very Christian, but I kind of hope that the governor and/or his wife have at least moderate symptoms. Something more than just really mild, feels like nothing. And then a recovery, because I’m not all bad.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 26, 2020, 07:11:06 AM

Quote from: Jockey on September 25, 2020, 09:48:11 PM

Put me on ignore.

You're not worth the effort.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on September 26, 2020, 07:33:06 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on September 25, 2020, 10:04:12 PM

Similar thing happening in Indiana

Yep.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on September 26, 2020, 08:52:52 AM

Not sure why this thread is even open any more. Florida has completely defeated COVID. We are opening everything up.
DeSantis lifts statewide restrictions on bars and restaurants as Florida moves to phase 3
https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2020/09/25/desantis-bars-and-restaurants-can-go-to-full-capacity-as-florida-moves-to-phase-3/

Gov. Ron DeSantis on Friday signed an executive order lifting all remaining statewide coronavirus-related restrictions on businesses in Florida, including bars and restaurants.

The executive order rolls back nearly every measure in Florida put in place to combat the spread of the coronavirus and puts the state into the last phase of its reopening plan.

Friday’s order also suspends fees and penalties for individuals who violate COVID-19 restrictions, removing the enforcement mechanisms in Pinellas and Hillsborough ordinances that require masks when inside public areas.

“We expect to do a full Super Bowl,” he said, “and we’re going to show that we’re going to be able to do that.”

Florida’s seven-day average positivity rate is 11 percent, according to Hopkins data. The Florida Department of Health, which calculates positivity differently, by counting negative retests but not positive retests, pegged the rate at the 5 percent mark.



A couple notes. This means strip clubs can open to full capacity and activities.  ;)
And since college kids are so responsible, he is trying to remove the universities ability to penalize students for not following university rules. I am sure that students, free from any consequences for their actions, will be completely responsible.  ::)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on September 26, 2020, 09:04:11 AM

What is wrong with him? Seriously.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: buckchuckler on September 26, 2020, 10:58:17 AM

https://news.yahoo.com/airport-finland-using-dogs-detect-091915592.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 26, 2020, 12:24:22 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on September 26, 2020, 07:11:06 AM

You're not worth the effort.

Obviously, I would be. You spend an awful lot of time “scolding” me. But then of course you spend a lot of time scolding others too.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 26, 2020, 12:26:20 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on September 25, 2020, 10:38:12 PM

The DT Administration took $300 million from the CDC in June, mid-pandemic. Where did it go? Sigh.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/25/trump-hhs-ads-coronavirus-421957

Quit making this all political.  ;D ;D

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on September 26, 2020, 12:42:32 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on September 26, 2020, 09:04:11 AM

What is wrong with him? Seriously.

I said way back there was a three way race for worst Governor between DeSantis, Noem, and Kemp, but DeSantis and Noem have pulled way ahead.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 26, 2020, 01:49:49 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on September 26, 2020, 12:42:32 PM

I said way back there was a three way race for worst Governor between DeSantis, Noem, and Kemp, but DeSantis and Noem have pulled way ahead.

Burgum should be on the list as well. Not quite at the Noem/DeSantis level, but he isn't far behind.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on September 26, 2020, 04:33:08 PM

"Wisconsin is on the Brink of a major outbreak."

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/09/wisconsin-coronavirus-hotspot/616510/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 26, 2020, 05:17:26 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on September 26, 2020, 04:33:08 PM

"Wisconsin is on the Brink of a major outbreak."

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/09/wisconsin-coronavirus-hotspot/616510/

The Badger State is seeing an explosive rise in cases: On September 1, it reported an average of about 750 new coronavirus cases a day; now it reports more than 2,000 a day. Wisconsin has reported nearly as many new cases per capita this week as Texas and Georgia did at the peak of their outbreaks this summer, according to the CDC.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on September 26, 2020, 05:47:16 PM

https://www.propublica.org/article/the-trump-administration-is-backing-out-of-a-647-million-ventilator-deal-after-propublica-investigated-the-price/amp?__twitter_impression=true

"Evidence of fraud, waste, and abuse."

"Rather than force production of loe cost ventilators, a White House team led by Peter Navarro cut a new deal for more ventilators agreeing to pay more than four times the price."

$647 Million Deal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 26, 2020, 06:03:48 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on September 26, 2020, 04:33:08 PM

"Wisconsin is on the Brink of a major outbreak."

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/09/wisconsin-coronavirus-hotspot/616510/

And for the people who say “I don’t care about cases, I just care about hospitalizations”:

At the same time, the number of people hospitalized with COVID-19 in Wisconsin has more than doubled since the month began. “The surges are in Green Bay, in northeastern Wisconsin, and there’s a little evidence of an uptick in Milwaukee,” Sethi said. “A lot of these counties are where older individuals live, on average.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 26, 2020, 07:07:55 PM

It feels like someone else made this mistake earlier

https://twitter.com/michaelmina_lab/status/1309991172392148992?s=21 (https://twitter.com/michaelmina_lab/status/1309991172392148992?s=21)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on September 26, 2020, 07:21:17 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 26, 2020, 07:07:55 PM

It feels like someone else made this mistake earlier

https://twitter.com/michaelmina_lab/status/1309991172392148992?s=21 (https://twitter.com/michaelmina_lab/status/1309991172392148992?s=21)

Ah yes, I remember that:
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=59849.msg1259068#msg1259068

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on September 26, 2020, 07:27:00 PM

My fear re: Florida is people traveling there for vacation and bringing it back.Those won’t show in Florida’s numbers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on September 26, 2020, 08:01:09 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on September 26, 2020, 07:27:00 PM

My fear re: Florida is people traveling there for vacation and bringing it back.Those won’t show in Florida’s numbers.

My extended family just hopped on a plane yesterday to take their annual trip to FL from IL. Older, obese, stubborn, only listen to one news source. They're in our prayers though.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on September 28, 2020, 03:54:48 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on September 26, 2020, 07:21:17 PM

Ah yes, I remember that:
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=59849.msg1259068#msg1259068

That was very funny

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on September 28, 2020, 04:30:01 PM

https://twitter.com/sfdb/status/1310042135543119872?s=19

Fort Lauderdale Florida.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 28, 2020, 05:24:12 PM

From Milwaukee Journal Sentinel:

For weeks, Fox Valley and northeastern Wisconsin communities have been setting records and filling hospitals — Appleton, Green Bay and the Oshkosh-Neenah area all fall among the top 10 metro areas in the nation where outbreaks are the worst, according to the New York Times. 

The Fox Valley is at a "critical burden" level of infection, Winnebago County health officials said. The county reports about 574 cases per 100,000 residents, a data point meant to control for population size. Milwaukee County, in comparison, reports a rate of 182.

And the growth is rapid. In Winnebago County, the 778 cases reported last week were more than double the week prior and more than five times the cases three weeks ago, according to local health officials.

Winnebago County last Thursday recorded 194 new cases in a single day, their highest since the pandemic began. The city of Appleton has set a new record for weekly case counts for the fifth straight week, reporting 340 cases from Sept. 21 through Saturday.

And Brown County on Friday reported nearly 30% of tests were returned positive.

Hospitals, contact tracers overwhelmed
Area hospitals have begun to sound the alarm. At a news conference Friday, Woleske said COVID patients occupy three-quarters of Bellin Hospital's ICU beds and two-thirds of medical unit beds — roughly double the number two weeks prior.


In the past week, Bellin's emergency room was so overwhelmed that workers had to tend to patients on gurneys in the hallway.

Coronavirus hospitalizations in the Fox Valley are more than five times as high as they were a month ago. ThedaCare, which throughout the pandemic has been able to house all coronavirus patients at its Appleton hospital, is now making plans to route patients to Neenah and its critical access hospitals in Berlin, Shawano and Waupaca.

"If we don’t change something ... we are back to square one, where we were back in February and March, and actually probably even somewhat worse off than at that moment in time," CEO Imran Andrabi told the Appleton Post Crescent.

Hospitals in the spring made plans to expand their capacity to treat coronavirus patients, but since then many have restarted non-emergency procedures, compounding the space issue some hospitals are now facing, Pothof said.

If trends continue the state's health care system will face the far reaches of its capacity, he said.

"None of those plans is infinite. At some point, they all have an end-point," he said. "And if you get to those end-points, that's when bad things start to happen to patients."

And as cases accelerate, one of the main tools to stop the spread gets harder to accomplish.

Multiple health departments across the state have reported that contact tracers, tasked with reaching infected people and identifying and tracking down their close contacts, have become overwhelmed by the barrage of new cases to work through.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on September 29, 2020, 07:51:42 AM

Coronavirus: New global test will give results 'in minutes'
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-54331921

A test that can diagnose Covid-19 in minutes will dramatically expand the capacity to detect cases in low- and middle-income countries, the World Health Organization (WHO) has said.

The $5 (£3.80) test could transform tracking of Covid-19 in less wealthy countries, which have shortages of healthcare workers and laboratories.

A deal with manufacturers will provide 120 million tests over six months.

The WHO's head called it a major milestone.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on September 29, 2020, 09:19:55 AM

Things are going great in North Dakota.

BISMARCK, N.D. (AP) — Dr. Paul Mariani resigned as North Dakota’s top state health officer on Friday, one day after Gov. Doug Burgum reversed himself and rescinded a new order that would have enforced quarantines for close contacts of coronavirus patients.

The announcement from Burgum’s office included a comment from Mariani that the way the new order was dropped made it impossible for him to continue as interim state health officer. He became the third person to resign the position since May. The upheaval comes as North Dakota battles one of the nation’s highest per-capita rates of spread of the COVID-19 virus.

https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-north-dakota-5daf1b2cf0a8e5a3c91bd5af5139d8e5

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 29, 2020, 09:30:19 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on September 29, 2020, 09:19:55 AM

Things are going great in North Dakota.

BISMARCK, N.D. (AP) — Dr. Paul Mariani resigned as North Dakota’s top state health officer on Friday, one day after Gov. Doug Burgum reversed himself and rescinded a new order that would have enforced quarantines for close contacts of coronavirus patients.

The announcement from Burgum’s office included a comment from Mariani that the way the new order was dropped made it impossible for him to continue as interim state health officer. He became the third person to resign the position since May. The upheaval comes as North Dakota battles one of the nation’s highest per-capita rates of spread of the COVID-19 virus.

https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-north-dakota-5daf1b2cf0a8e5a3c91bd5af5139d8e5

And virtually nobody there wears masks. My daughter lives in downtown Fargo, and says she is usually one of very few people wearing a mask when she goes out. Often, it's only her and the employees of the stores and restaurants she visits.

Needless to say, she spends most of her time in her apartment.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 30, 2020, 01:31:15 PM

I haven’t had a chance to read all the sources behind this tweet yet but interesting that the findings show a small number of people are responsible for most of the spread in multiple different country studies. 

https://twitter.com/zeynep/status/1311329981419728898?s=21 (https://twitter.com/zeynep/status/1311329981419728898?s=21)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 30, 2020, 01:45:49 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 30, 2020, 01:31:15 PM

I haven’t had a chance to read all the sources behind this tweet yet but interesting that the findings show a small number of people are responsible for most of the spread in multiple different country studies. 

https://twitter.com/zeynep/status/1311329981419728898?s=21 (https://twitter.com/zeynep/status/1311329981419728898?s=21)

On campus, we have noticed this exact thing.  We have some instances, where someone who tests positive and is symptomatic, doesn't even spread the disease to their roommate.  We have another where one person was responsible for spreading the disease to about a dozen others, some of whom were supposedly not in contact for fifteen minutes.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 30, 2020, 02:12:49 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on September 30, 2020, 01:45:49 PM

On campus, we have noticed this exact thing.  We have some instances, where someone who tests positive and is symptomatic, doesn't even spread the disease to their roommate.  We have another where one person was responsible for spreading the disease to about a dozen others, some of whom were supposedly not in contact for fifteen minutes.

Yep. That limits the value of contact tracing and selective quarantining. Challenging sucker to fight.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on September 30, 2020, 04:16:29 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 30, 2020, 02:12:49 PM

Yep. That limits the value of contact tracing and selective quarantining. Challenging sucker to fight.

We would know more about this had we tried to do it at a federal level. We basically have anecdotal evidence about it in the US due to a lack of data.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on September 30, 2020, 05:22:15 PM

19 year old college student dies from COVID-19

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1241573?__twitter_impression=true

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 30, 2020, 07:26:21 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on September 30, 2020, 05:22:15 PM

19 year old college student dies from COVID-19

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1241573?__twitter_impression=true

Very unfortunate. It would be nice if we can get some long-term meaning from this tragic loss, by sending the message that it doesn't just kill old or fat or 'unhealthy' people. It I were a college president, every kid on my campus would read this story, and every professor would discuss it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on September 30, 2020, 08:49:44 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on September 25, 2020, 11:22:10 AM

I've been curious, is it taste/smell anything or is it more like after some people have strokes or other issues and need super salty, Smokey, Spicey flavors to get any taste whatsoever?

Just read this:
https://deadline.com/2020/09/jim-parsons-reveals-covid-19-diagnosis-says-symptoms-defied-the-descriptions-1234588473/

Quote

On Monday night [Jim] Parsons told Fallon of his experience with the coronavirus.

“We didn’t know what it was, we know we had colds and we lost all sense of smell and taste,” the Hollywood actor told Fallon. “It defied the descriptions for me, I didn’t realize how taste and smell could be gone.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on September 30, 2020, 08:58:01 PM

Speaking of smell, Finland is offering voluntary airport COVID-19 tests administered by dogs:

https://twitter.com/orlandosentinel/status/1311280160096821250?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 01, 2020, 09:48:48 AM

Since the current resurgence is being 'led' by the upper midwest (mostly ND, SD, and WI), I offer this summary from MPR of MN and its surrounding states:

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/03/17/comparing-covid19-in-minnesota-and-its-neighbors-in-upper-midwest

Even though MN is doing the 'best' of the bunch on terms of testing and lowest case rate, our leaders and public health officials have been blunt in saying we have to do better. This gives me some hope. Officials in the other states are not as unified or consistent...and in many cases are making dangerous decisions on mask mandates, large gatherings and the like.

The line graph of Wisconsin's seven-day average of new cases looks like the trajectory of a moon launch....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on October 02, 2020, 09:57:14 AM

Amazon says nearly 20,000 of its works have had COVID-19:

https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1312041650437402628?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on October 02, 2020, 07:38:37 PM

"Totally Under Control" trailer:

https://twitter.com/neonrated/status/1312044877065068546?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on October 02, 2020, 08:04:47 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on October 02, 2020, 09:57:14 AM

Amazon says nearly 20,000 of its works have had COVID-19:

https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1312041650437402628?s=19

At about 1M employees (I've seen claims up to 1.4M) they're about on-par with (a little better than) general US infection rates of around 2.2%

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on October 03, 2020, 11:00:43 AM

Seems like ACB rose garden was a super spreader.

Were any of the BLM protests?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 03, 2020, 01:54:33 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on October 03, 2020, 11:00:43 AM

Seems like ACB rose garden was a super spreader.

The fundamentalists are big on 'signs from above.' Wonder how they interpret this one....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on October 03, 2020, 02:25:05 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on October 03, 2020, 01:54:33 PM

The fundamentalists are big on 'signs from above.' Wonder how they interpret this one....

From what I've read, the response seems to be akin to learning the tooth fairy doesn't exist.  Denial. Won't believe it until they leave a tooth under their pillow next time.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on October 05, 2020, 06:06:58 PM

Herman Cain Timeline:

https://twitter.com/TimOBrien/status/1313192280971452418?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on October 05, 2020, 07:25:56 PM

The equivalent of Birmingham, Alabama has been eliminated.      Santa Clarita up next.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on October 05, 2020, 11:52:56 PM

The New York Times reports that the Trump team "has decided not to trace the contacts of guests and staff members" at the superspreading White House Rose Garden celebration for Supreme Court nominee Amy Coney Barrett, the apparent source of infection for at least three Republican senators and numerous other people.

The Trump White House is going to dodge the question of how many people were infected by the Rose Garden event in the most obvious and criminal way: They've "decided" not to find out. They've also refused to give the Centers of Disease Control and Prevention authority to do that contact tracing themselves, despite the agency having scrambled a team to do just that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 06, 2020, 10:09:25 AM

Quote from: Jockey on October 05, 2020, 11:52:56 PM

The New York Times reports that the Trump team "has decided not to trace the contacts of guests and staff members" at the superspreading White House Rose Garden celebration for Supreme Court nominee Amy Coney Barrett, the apparent source of infection for at least three Republican senators and numerous other people.

The Trump White House is going to dodge the question of how many people were infected by the Rose Garden event in the most obvious and criminal way: They've "decided" not to find out. They've also refused to give the Centers of Disease Control and Prevention authority to do that contact tracing themselves, despite the agency having scrambled a team to do just that.

I put this in the POTUS thread.

It's borderline criminal negligence. Again.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on October 06, 2020, 10:23:37 AM

Quote from: MU82 on October 06, 2020, 10:09:25 AM

I put this in the POTUS thread.

It's borderline criminal negligence. Again.

It would actually be “news” if he made a policy on Covid that wasn’t criminally negligent.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on October 06, 2020, 01:50:45 PM

Now pentagon having issues:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/06/politics/pentagon-leadership-self-isolating-coronavirus/index.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on October 06, 2020, 01:58:54 PM

GOP official from Arkansas who hosted a mostly mask-less event last month died of COVID-19 today. This is pretty said. Regardless of political leanings, it seems this guy was sincere in serving his community. This is what happens when a health crisis gets politicized.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/steven-farmer-ak-republican-county-chair-dies-of-covid-19-weeks-after-committee-hosted-maskless-gathering?ref=home

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 06, 2020, 02:07:38 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on October 06, 2020, 01:58:54 PM

GOP official from Arkansas who hosted a mostly mask-less event last month died of COVID-19 today. This is pretty said. Regardless of political leanings, it seems this guy was sincere in serving his community. This is what happens when a health crisis gets politicized.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/steven-farmer-ak-republican-county-chair-dies-of-covid-19-weeks-after-committee-hosted-maskless-gathering?ref=home

Yep - the unfortunate (and clearly foreseeable) effect of the leader of the party actively downplaying the benefit of masks, and ridiculing those who wear them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on October 06, 2020, 02:28:23 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on October 06, 2020, 02:07:38 PM

Yep - the unfortunate (and clearly foreseeable) effect of the leader of the party actively downplaying the benefit of masks, and ridiculing those who wear them.

These are very sad cases - and almost entirely preventable. He undoubtedly suffered. His family will continue to suffer. Solely because he trusted trump.

This won’t be the last time this happens.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on October 06, 2020, 04:15:38 PM

Quote from: tower912 on October 05, 2020, 07:25:56 PM

The equivalent of Birmingham, Alabama has been eliminated.      Santa Clarita up next.

Citing Birmingham is not a way to get White supremacists Republicans concerned about this pandemic

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on October 06, 2020, 04:18:44 PM

Quote from: GB Warrior on October 06, 2020, 04:15:38 PM

Citing Birmingham is not a way to get White supremacists Republicans concerned about this pandemic

Fayetteville, Des Moines, Baton Rouge.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on October 07, 2020, 08:36:34 AM

There is only one early voting location per county in Ohio. For example, Franklin County (Columbus) has 880,000 registered voters, and one location.

Harris County Texas, (Houston) population 4.7 million, over half of which are registered to vote, has one drop off location for early voting.

Lines for days, increasing the health risks for everyone.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 07, 2020, 09:04:55 AM

An increase in infections leaves North Dakota ‘perilously close’ to the edge.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/10/07/world/covid-coronavirus?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage#an-increase-in-infections-leaves-north-dakota-perilously-close-to-the-edge

As President Trump returned from the hospital, still telling Americans not to be afraid of Covid-19, the coronavirus has exploded in North Dakota. In the past week, North Dakota reported more new cases per capita than any other state.

Hospitalizations for the virus have risen abruptly, forcing health care officials in some towns to send people to faraway hospitals, even across state lines to Montana and South Dakota.
...

Still, partly because these outbreaks were slow in coming, public health officials say they have struggled to convince the public that the situation is urgent or that limits like mask rules make sense. North Dakota is one of fewer than 20 states with no statewide mask mandate and many counties have resisted restrictions. But as the state reaches a boiling point, health officials say they hope people now will start to take the virus more seriously.


-----------------

Let's see. Global pandemic, no statewide mask mandate, general lack of hospital resources - what could possibly go wrong?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 07, 2020, 06:31:14 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on October 07, 2020, 08:36:34 AM

There is only one early voting location per county in Ohio. For example, Franklin County (Columbus) has 880,000 registered voters, and one location.

Harris County Texas, (Houston) population 4.7 million, over half of which are registered to vote, has one drop off location for early voting.

Lines for days, increasing the health risks for everyone.

When in doubt ... suppress!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on October 07, 2020, 07:07:10 PM

Quote from: MU82 on October 07, 2020, 06:31:14 PM

When in doubt ... suppress!

I mean, I haven't researched details, to see if any of this is correct but for Houston he clearly says one "drop off" location.  If you've already done your voting and just need to drop it off, I doubt there are any lines since it takes about 3 seconds to drop off a ballot.  Also, I'm guessing they could mail it back instead of driving to the drop-off location.

And for 27 day early voting, I doubt Franklin County has any lines either. 

So, I know you're both using your jump to conclusions mat judiciously, but these don't seem like suppression efforts...at this point.

Edit: OK.  I stand corrected on Franklin County - they had lines today.  But I read it as they're were surprised SO many people were excited to vote this early.
https://www.nbc4i.com/news/your-local-election-hq/franklin-county-voters-turnout-in-scores-for-first-day-of-early-voting/

Quote

“This is probably one of the busiest early voting periods that there’s ever been,” said Columbus voter Jesse Jackson.

edit 2:  And I've just educated myself on Houston too.  They have unfortunately limited boxes,  but mail-in is still an option.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/03/texas-mail-in-ballot-drop-off-sites

So, what has this to do with COVID-19?  I donno.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on October 07, 2020, 07:18:04 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on October 07, 2020, 07:07:10 PM

I mean, I haven't researched details, to see if any of this is correct but for Houston he clearly says one "drop off" location.  If you've already done your voting and just need to drop it off, I doubt there are any lines since it takes about 3 seconds to drop off a ballot.  Also, I'm guessing they could mail it back instead of driving to the drop-off location.

I think you are missing the point. There will be lines, but that is not the point. Harris County - where Houston is located - is about 1800 square miles. So some people may need to drive 30-40 miles for the privilege of waiting in line.

And, yes, people will need to use the drop box to counteract the consequences of voter suppression by the Post Office. To make sure their ballot actually arrives where it needs to go.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on October 07, 2020, 07:35:30 PM

Harris county is bigger than many New England states.  My town has two drop boxes.  I could drive a mile or two miles (my choice).  Turned in my COVID ‘absentee’ ballot last night—whole thing took 15 mins. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on October 07, 2020, 07:59:20 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on October 07, 2020, 07:07:10 PM

I mean, I haven't researched details, to see if any of this is correct but for Houston he clearly says one "drop off" location.  If you've already done your voting and just need to drop it off, I doubt there are any lines since it takes about 3 seconds to drop off a ballot.  Also, I'm guessing they could mail it back instead of driving to the drop-off location.

And for 27 day early voting, I doubt Franklin County has any lines either. 

So, I know you're both using your jump to conclusions mat judiciously, but these don't seem like suppression efforts...at this point.

Edit: OK.  I stand corrected on Franklin County - they had lines today.  But I read it as they're were surprised SO many people were excited to vote this early.
https://www.nbc4i.com/news/your-local-election-hq/franklin-county-voters-turnout-in-scores-for-first-day-of-early-voting/
edit 2:  And I've just educated myself on Houston too.  They have unfortunately limited boxes,  but mail-in is still an option.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/03/texas-mail-in-ballot-drop-off-sites

So, what has this to do with COVID-19?  I donno.

https://twitter.com/AnnaBrichacek/status/1313812938587865089?s=19

What does it have to do with COVID-19? Why do you think many people are voting in person early, absentee, by mail etc? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on October 07, 2020, 07:59:53 PM

Again, still nothing to do with Covid,  but I did appreciate the "COVID ‘absentee’ ballot " line.  Decent attempt at tie-in.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on October 07, 2020, 08:31:09 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on October 07, 2020, 07:59:53 PM

Again, still nothing to do with Covid,  but I did appreciate the "COVID ‘absentee’ ballot " line.  Decent attempt at tie-in.

It has everything to do with COVID-19. But you are also someone that doesn't understand that voting is a human rights issue and not a political issue. So I don't expect you to understand that this is COVID-19 related. 👍✌️

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on October 07, 2020, 08:32:36 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on October 07, 2020, 07:59:53 PM

Again, still nothing to do with Covid,  but I did appreciate the "COVID ‘absentee’ ballot " line.  Decent attempt at tie-in.

Sorry I meant it more that my state allows that as a valid reason for obtaining an absentee ballot.  That is not true everywhere. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on October 08, 2020, 10:17:11 AM

COVID-19 becomes the 3rd leading cause of death in the United States:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/covid-19-is-now-the-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-the-u-s/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on October 08, 2020, 10:49:26 AM

That is a really bad flu.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on October 08, 2020, 02:20:47 PM

Just the flu my ass!  Do minks frequently die of the flu?  (I actually don't know...)

https://www.channel3000.com/taylor-county-mink-test-positive-for-coronavirus/

edit:  turns out, minks do frequently contract the flu.  I haven't found stats on death rates vs Covid-19: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6612982/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on October 08, 2020, 02:35:52 PM

Where you get your news shapes how you view the national response to the pandemic, even more than party affiliation.

90 percent of Republicans who get their news from Fox and talk radio think the US did everything it could have to control the outbreak.
Only 46 percent of Republicans who don't watch Fox News say the same.

https://www.journalism.org/2020/10/07/before-trump-tested-positive-for-coronavirus-republicans-attention-to-pandemic-had-sharply-declined/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on October 08, 2020, 08:04:57 PM

Lindsey graham refuses to get tested before his next debate.

Pretty obvious that any senate republican, but especially on the judiciary committee, will not get tested or admit to positive test before confirmation.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on October 08, 2020, 08:19:05 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on October 08, 2020, 08:04:57 PM

Lindsey graham refuses to get tested before his next debate.

Pretty obvious that any senate republican, but especially on the judiciary committee, will not get tested or admit to positive test before confirmation.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on October 08, 2020, 10:31:27 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on October 08, 2020, 08:19:05 PM

To be fair they were wearing masks... but yeah get tested

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 09, 2020, 07:27:59 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on October 08, 2020, 10:31:27 PM

To be fair they were wearing masks... but yeah get tested

Agreed.  It isn't ideal, but they're both masked and not making out.

This time.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 09, 2020, 11:14:51 AM

Mitch McConnell says he hasn't visited the White House due to their lax policy on the coronavirus.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mcconnell-hasnt-been-white-house-early-august-lax-covid-rules

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on October 09, 2020, 12:38:46 PM

Quote from: MU82 on October 09, 2020, 11:14:51 AM

Mitch McConnell says he hasn't visited the White House due to their lax policy on the coronavirus.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mcconnell-hasnt-been-white-house-early-august-lax-covid-rules

I'm assuming the article says he's pushing hard for all the senators to be repeatedly tested with public results?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: SoCalEagle on October 09, 2020, 01:18:47 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on October 09, 2020, 12:38:46 PM

I'm assuming the article says he's pushing hard for all the senators to be repeatedly tested with public results?

Uh ..... no. 

But I see there are more questions regarding Barret's refusal to wear a mask.  She appeared in multiple places where masks were required and did not wear one.  Same for her entire family, including the kids.  Flaunts the rules, eh? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on October 09, 2020, 01:32:00 PM

Quote from: SoCalEagle on October 09, 2020, 01:18:47 PM

Uh ..... no. 

But I see there are more questions regarding Barret's refusal to wear a mask.  She appeared in multiple places where masks were required and did not wear one.  Same for her entire family, including the kids.  Flaunts the rules, eh?

She didn't think the founders intended it

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on October 09, 2020, 01:39:50 PM

Quote from: SoCalEagle on October 09, 2020, 01:18:47 PM

Uh ..... no. 

But I see there are more questions regarding Barret's refusal to wear a mask.  She appeared in multiple places where masks were required and did not wear one.  Same for her entire family, including the kids.  Flaunts the rules, eh?

Could be a result of having had it already she probably feels invincible and that it'd be pointless. For example I have an uncle who tested positive for antibodies after he thought he had it in March and on 4th of July he was almost making a point to invade everyone's space and hug people against their will etc.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: SoCalEagle on October 09, 2020, 01:48:48 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on October 09, 2020, 01:39:50 PM

Could be a result of having had it already she probably feels invincible and that it'd be pointless. For example I have an uncle who tested positive for antibodies after he thought he had it in March and on 4th of July he was almost making a point to invade everyone's space and hug people against their will etc.

I hear you.  But, it doesn't explain spouse and kids, right?  And what about shaking everyone's hand at the super spreader event.  Even if she is immune (let's presume), she can easily pass it from one person to the next by touching multiple people (i.e. no social distancing).  Any way you cut it, she flaunted the rules (law???). 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on October 09, 2020, 01:51:54 PM

No I don't think you are infectious if you have had the disease already.  The virus won't replicate enough for that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 09, 2020, 02:07:13 PM

Quote from: GB Warrior on October 09, 2020, 01:32:00 PM

She didn't think the founders intended it

Made me laugh.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 09, 2020, 02:12:00 PM

Charlotte area residents should feel safe casting their ballots at early voting locations next week despite the COVID-19 pandemic, Public Health Director Gibbie Harris said Friday.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article246338235.html?ac_cid=DM298554&ac_bid=-1812517297

The sites are designed to accommodate social distancing, Harris told reporters during a news conference. And health officials are planning to distribute a “significant amount” of personal protective equipment, intended for poll workers and voters who arrive without face coverings.

“Everyone is being encouraged to wear a mask and to socially distance,” Harris said. “At this point in time, we’re comfortable with the work that the (Mecklenburg County) Board of Elections is doing around these sites.”

I am very glad this is being said. I definitely plan to vote in person during early voting, which runs from Oct. 15-31. It will be no different than grocery shopping -- keep your distance, stand in designated spots, wear a mask, use hand sanitizer after touching anything, etc. The main difference is that at polling places, the mask-wearing mandate actually will be enforced.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 09, 2020, 02:19:00 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on October 09, 2020, 01:51:54 PM

No I don't think you are infectious if you have had the disease already.  The virus won't replicate enough for that.

Fomites.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on October 09, 2020, 02:39:21 PM

A teacher and two students of the school attended by the children of Amy Coney Barrett have tested positive for COVID-19. (Her family attended the superspreader White House event.)


https://twitter.com/apoorva_nyc/status/1314621142062247938?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on October 09, 2020, 02:48:58 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on October 09, 2020, 02:19:00 PM

Fomites.

Hadn’t heard the word before. Thanks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 09, 2020, 03:37:49 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on October 09, 2020, 01:51:54 PM

No I don't think you are infectious if you have had the disease already.  The virus won't replicate enough for that.

CDC says we still don't have enough information to know for sure.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/if-you-are-sick/end-home-isolation.html

CDC recommends that all people, whether or not they have had COVID-19, take steps to prevent getting and spreading COVID-19. Wash hands regularly, stay at least 6 feet away from others whenever possible, and wear masks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: SoCalEagle on October 09, 2020, 03:49:46 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on October 09, 2020, 01:51:54 PM

No I don't think you are infectious if you have had the disease already.  The virus won't replicate enough for that.

You don’t have to be infectious to pass on the virus. If I’m immune, but you’re sick and I shake your hand, I can then pass the virus (that is now on my hand) to someone else. This may have happened with Barret who shook lots of hands. She was the focus of the event after all.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 09, 2020, 08:06:24 PM

Nine coronavirus cases tied to Trump Minnesota rally

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/09/trump-minnesota-rally-coronavirus-cases-428425

Nine people who have contracted the coronavirus reported attending a Donald Trump rally in Bemidji, Minn., last month, state health officials said Friday, including two who were hospitalized.

One of them remains in an intensive care unit.

——————

Just the flu....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on October 09, 2020, 09:58:28 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on October 08, 2020, 10:31:27 PM

To be fair they were wearing masks... but yeah get tested

None of them were wearing masks for the 90 minute Senate Judiciary Committee meeting immediately following this photo. Lee, who had symptoms, tested positive the next day.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on October 10, 2020, 12:01:23 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on October 09, 2020, 09:58:28 PM

None of them were wearing masks for the 90 minute Senate Judiciary Committee meeting immediately following this photo. Lee, who had symptoms, tested positive the next day.

The important thing is the commoners in the background are wearing masks. Everyone knows Covid doesn't hit the elite

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on October 10, 2020, 07:58:33 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on October 07, 2020, 08:36:34 AM

Harris County Texas, (Houston) population 4.7 million, over half of which are registered to vote, has one drop off location for early voting.

This is a COVID issue for two reasons.

1. Because of COVID more people will be submitting ballots at these drop off locations than ever have before.
2. If people cannot easily drop off a ballot somewhere, they may instead vote in person. In these high population density areas then, voting would have the capacity to be a super spreader event.

Now, why the "one drop off location" is absurd. If 1 million people tried to vote by drop of ballot in Harris county, and if it only took 5 second per drop off, it would take 57 days for all of them to vote. Let's say it was only 250,000, or 10% of the registered voters. It would still take 14.5 days for them all to vote, that is assuming drop-off 24-hours a day. It also assumes that these drive through drop off sites would only take 5 seconds to drop-off.

Don't forget, depending on where you live it may take hours round trip to get there.

The situation is ripe to cause a potential rapid rise in COVID in already hard hit areas due to an increase in in person voting.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 10, 2020, 10:54:43 AM

The New England Journal of Medicine delivers a scathing rebuke of American leadership in regards to the pandemic:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2029812

I'll let folks read the article and draw their own conclusions, but a few of the "highlights" (or lowlights):

Covid-19 has created a crisis throughout the world. This crisis has produced a test of leadership. With no good options to combat a novel pathogen, countries were forced to make hard choices about how to respond. Here in the United States, our leaders have failed that test. They have taken a crisis and turned it into a tragedy.

The magnitude of this failure is astonishing. ... Why has the United States handled this pandemic so badly? We have failed at almost every step.

Although we tend to focus on technology, most of the interventions that have large effects are not complicated. The United States instituted quarantine and isolation measures late and inconsistently, often without any effort to enforce them, after the disease had spread substantially in many communities. Our rules on social distancing have in many places been lackadaisical at best, with loosening of restrictions long before adequate disease control had been achieved. And in much of the country, people simply don’t wear masks, largely because our leaders have stated outright that masks are political tools rather than effective infection control measures.

The United States came into this crisis with enormous advantages. ...  Yet our leaders have largely chosen to ignore and even denigrate experts. ...

The response of our nation’s leaders has been consistently inadequate. The federal government has largely abandoned disease control to the states. Governors have varied in their responses, not so much by party as by competence. But whatever their competence, governors do not have the tools that Washington controls. Instead of using those tools, the federal government has undermined them. ... The Food and Drug Administration has been shamefully politicized, appearing to respond to pressure from the administration rather than scientific evidence. Our current leaders have undercut trust in science and in government, causing damage that will certainly outlast them. Instead of relying on expertise, the administration has turned to uninformed “opinion leaders” and charlatans who obscure the truth and facilitate the promulgation of outright lies. ...

When it comes to the response to the largest public health crisis of our time, our current political leaders have demonstrated that they are dangerously incompetent.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 10, 2020, 02:35:34 PM

Quote from: MU82 on October 10, 2020, 10:54:43 AM

The New England Journal of Medicine delivers a scathing rebuke of American leadership in regards to the pandemic:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2029812

I'll let folks read the article and draw their own conclusions, but a few of the "highlights" (or lowlights):

Covid-19 has created a crisis throughout the world. This crisis has produced a test of leadership. With no good options to combat a novel pathogen, countries were forced to make hard choices about how to respond. Here in the United States, our leaders have failed that test. They have taken a crisis and turned it into a tragedy.

The magnitude of this failure is astonishing. ... Why has the United States handled this pandemic so badly? We have failed at almost every step.

Although we tend to focus on technology, most of the interventions that have large effects are not complicated. The United States instituted quarantine and isolation measures late and inconsistently, often without any effort to enforce them, after the disease had spread substantially in many communities. Our rules on social distancing have in many places been lackadaisical at best, with loosening of restrictions long before adequate disease control had been achieved. And in much of the country, people simply don’t wear masks, largely because our leaders have stated outright that masks are political tools rather than effective infection control measures.

The United States came into this crisis with enormous advantages. ...  Yet our leaders have largely chosen to ignore and even denigrate experts. ...

The response of our nation’s leaders has been consistently inadequate. The federal government has largely abandoned disease control to the states. Governors have varied in their responses, not so much by party as by competence. But whatever their competence, governors do not have the tools that Washington controls. Instead of using those tools, the federal government has undermined them. ... The Food and Drug Administration has been shamefully politicized, appearing to respond to pressure from the administration rather than scientific evidence. Our current leaders have undercut trust in science and in government, causing damage that will certainly outlast them. Instead of relying on expertise, the administration has turned to uninformed “opinion leaders” and charlatans who obscure the truth and facilitate the promulgation of outright lies. ...

When it comes to the response to the largest public health crisis of our time, our current political leaders have demonstrated that they are dangerously incompetent.

But what does Dr. Demon Sperm say?

Seriously, an excellent piece. Unfortunately, the people who need to hear it the most will disregard it....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 10, 2020, 05:39:32 PM

Extra Pounds May Raise Risk of Severe Covid-19

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/10/health/coronavirus-obesity-weight.html

Obese Americans are more likely to become dangerously ill if they are infected with the new coronavirus. Now public health officials are warning that a much broader segment of the population also may be at risk: even moderately excess weight may increase the odds of severe disease.

The warning, reported by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention this week, may have serious implications for Americans. While about 40 percent of U.S. adults are obese, another 32 percent are simply overweight, among the highest rates of obesity and overweight in the world.

By the new calculus, nearly three-quarters of Americans may be at increased risk of severe Covid-19 if infected with the coronavirus.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on October 10, 2020, 08:43:44 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on October 10, 2020, 05:39:32 PM

Extra Pounds May Raise Risk of Severe Covid-19

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/10/health/coronavirus-obesity-weight.html

Obese Americans are more likely to become dangerously ill if they are infected with the new coronavirus. Now public health officials are warning that a much broader segment of the population also may be at risk: even moderately excess weight may increase the odds of severe disease.

The warning, reported by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention this week, may have serious implications for Americans. While about 40 percent of U.S. adults are obese, another 32 percent are simply overweight, among the highest rates of obesity and overweight in the world.

By the new calculus, nearly three-quarters of Americans may be at increased risk of severe Covid-19 if infected with the coronavirus.

1) that explains North Korea being covid free.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 11, 2020, 08:29:39 AM

Coronavirus Safety Runs Into a Stubborn Barrier: Masculinity

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/10/us/politics/trump-biden-masks-masculinity.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

The theme has been there since the beginning of the pandemic. Some experts who study masculinity and public health say the perception that wearing masks and following social distancing guidelines are unmanly has carried a destructive cost. The virus has infected more men than women and killed far more of them.

The experts say the best public health practices have collided with several of the social demands men in many cultures are pressured to follow to assert their masculinity: displaying strength instead of weakness, showing a willingness to take risks, hiding their fear, appearing to be in control.

Men’s resistance to showing weakness — and their tendency to take risks — was demonstrated by scientists long before Covid-19. Studies have shown men are less likely than women to wear seatbelts and helmets, or to get flu shots. They’re more likely to speed or drive drunk. They are less likely to seek out medical care.

Some initial research indicates a similar pattern is playing out with the coronavirus. Surveys have found that women are more likely than men to wear masks in the United States. And recent polls have found men give higher marks to President Trump than women on his handling of the pandemic.

-----------------

Evolutionary biology + social stereotypes + an insecure President = men making stupid decisions and getting sick

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 11, 2020, 08:33:19 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1315279852048723968

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on October 11, 2020, 08:43:22 AM

Nowhere near done with this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on October 11, 2020, 08:47:21 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on October 11, 2020, 08:33:19 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1315279852048723968

Should have shut their borders to American tourists

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on October 11, 2020, 09:26:13 AM

My mother-in-law and my wife's friend both of  whom my wife speaks with often tell my wife that Poland has been progressing worse the last 6 weeks and the main reason is their version of Trumpies who refuse to wear masks as well as ignoring gathering warnings.  Apparently all the universities have gone on line and they've quarantined and shut down whole towns.  Grammar and high schools have gone online too except K-3. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 11, 2020, 09:32:13 AM

Quote from: tower912 on October 11, 2020, 08:43:22 AM

Nowhere near done with this.

Yep. Plenty of articles out there about Europe experiencing 'Covid fatigue,' leading to decreased compliance, leading to a surge in cases. That, and their own 'right-wing' fringe that refuses to wear masks.

The only difference between Europe and the US is that they got levels low enough so they can legitimately call this  a 'second wave.' Here, people were so noncompliant that the first wave was never really suppressed. We have had a constant fire burning all through the summer, and it's now increasing again into the fall.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on October 11, 2020, 06:23:04 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on October 08, 2020, 08:04:57 PM

Lindsey graham refuses to get tested before his next debate.

Pretty obvious that any senate republican, but especially on the judiciary committee, will not get tested or admit to positive test before confirmation.

Graham's opponent did not relent on covid testing prior to debate. Graham continues to refuse testing. Debate cancelled.

Garbage

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on October 11, 2020, 06:35:14 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on October 11, 2020, 06:23:04 PM

Graham's opponent did not relent on covid testing prior to debate. Graham continues to refuse testing. Debate cancelled.

Garbage

His opponent, Jaime Harrison, brought his own plexiglass for their first debate.

And Harrison just set a fund raising record of $57 million in the quarter. it is the highest amount raised by a U.S. Senate candidate in one quarter.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 11, 2020, 06:47:33 PM

From AP, re an Associated Press/Frontline investigation into why there was a PPE shortage in the early months of the U.S. coronavirus crisis ...

The warnings of looming and potentially deadly supply shortages from the White House began confidentially in February when White House trade adviser Peter Navarro wrote to the COVID-19 task force, urging the administration to halt exports and ramp up production of N95 masks.

The U.S. “faces the real prospect of a severe mask shortage!” he wrote Feb. 9.

In addition to halting exports and prohibiting the sale of N95 factory equipment to China, Navarro pleaded that the U.S. government must provide “immediate purchase guarantees for all U.S. supplies at maximum production capacity.”

President Donald Trump initially rebuffed calls from states, medical workers, Congressional Democrats and domestic manufacturers to invoke the Defense Production Act, which allows the federal government to boost manufacturing. He said it wasn’t necessary, but then abruptly reversed course in the spring, giving a few U.S. factories support they needed to expand production of N95s and the raw materials used to make them. But even now, those manufacturers haven’t received long-term purchase guarantees.

So, to recap, Trump's own adviser warned him in early February about the severity of the problem and urged Trump to act. But it wasn't until April that Trump actually did so. During those two lost months, governors were pleading for supplies and, in some cases, bidding against each other for PPE. Meanwhile, the virus spread exponentially, and we're still trying to contain it today.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 11, 2020, 08:17:11 PM

https://amp.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/global/coronavirus-who-backflips-on-virus-stance-by-condemning-lockdowns/news-story/f2188f2aebff1b7b291b297731c3da74?__twitter_impression=true

WHO just not coming to realize what most of us new from the tip.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 11, 2020, 08:21:58 PM

Now*

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on October 11, 2020, 08:41:54 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on October 11, 2020, 08:21:58 PM

Now*

Broken link Jams

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 11, 2020, 08:42:03 PM

WHO comments were misconstrued.

https://9now.nine.com.au/today/coronavirus-who-insists-decision-to-advise-against-lockdowns-is-not-a-backflip/ba52ac1e-08c0-445c-930f-05999968a4aa

Don’t do lockdowns as the primary means of controlling a pandemic. Instead the government should implement contact tracing, mask wearing and such, to prevent the virus from becoming widespread. Unfortunately, we never properly implemented the preferred steps (and in most cases, they are still inadequate), so the lockdowns became a necessary evil.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on October 11, 2020, 08:57:43 PM

Knew.  Not 'new'.  You should take over from Jared.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 11, 2020, 08:59:55 PM

Quote from: tower912 on October 11, 2020, 08:57:43 PM

Knew.  Not 'new'.  You should take over from Jared.

You are the worst

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on October 11, 2020, 09:02:46 PM

   Shame on me.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 11, 2020, 09:24:29 PM

Quote from: tower912 on October 11, 2020, 09:02:46 PM

   Shame on me.

That was just Pace misspelling "wurst," tower. And he loves bratwurst, so that means he thinks you're great!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 11, 2020, 09:33:57 PM

Quote from: MU82 on October 11, 2020, 09:24:29 PM

That was just Pace misspelling "wurst," tower. And he loves bratwurst, so that means he thinks you're great!

I thought he was into blutwurst.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 12, 2020, 09:05:29 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on October 11, 2020, 06:35:14 PM

His opponent, Jaime Harrison, brought his own plexiglass for their first debate.

And Harrison just set a fund raising record of $57 million in the quarter. it is the highest amount raised by a U.S. Senate candidate in one quarter.

The remaining GOP senators are holding off on a test so they can be present for new SCOTUS votes.  That's what this is about.  Nothing else.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on October 12, 2020, 09:43:23 AM

Quote from: tower912 on October 11, 2020, 09:02:46 PM

   Shame on me.

President came here to make us all bleed, not to proofread

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on October 12, 2020, 09:46:37 AM

Quote from: tower912 on October 11, 2020, 09:02:46 PM

   Shame on me.

Pace is a teller, not a speller.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on October 12, 2020, 09:47:55 AM

Quote from: tower912 on October 11, 2020, 09:02:46 PM

   Shame on me.

He always gets very personally offended when you point out his grammar errors.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on October 12, 2020, 12:45:49 PM

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/us-sees-20percent-more-deaths-than-expected-this-year-most-due-to-covid-19-research-finds/ar-BB19WXRw?li=BBnb7Kz


Deaths in the US up 20% this year compared to the same time frame last year.     Damn that bad flu.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 12, 2020, 12:57:07 PM

Quote from: tower912 on October 12, 2020, 12:45:49 PM

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/us-sees-20percent-more-deaths-than-expected-this-year-most-due-to-covid-19-research-finds/ar-BB19WXRw?li=BBnb7Kz


Deaths in the US up 20% this year compared to the same time frame last year.     Damn that bad flu.

"You just breathe the air and that’s how it’s passed, and so that’s a very tricky one. That’s a very delicate one. It’s also more deadly than even your strenuous flu. This is deadly stuff."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on October 12, 2020, 04:16:00 PM

"Teen gave COVID-19 to 11 relatives across 4 states."

https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-cdc-report-family-gathering-local-20201012-7f7i6sosi5ep7dhoq3e2bpgavi-story.html?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on October 12, 2020, 05:43:36 PM

Not great news for herd mentality.

A Nevada man became the first published case of Covid-19 reinfection in the U.S., adding to a growing number of examples world-wide signaling that patients who have recovered from the viral disease might still be at risk of getting it again.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-reinfection-documented-in-nevada-adds-to-questions-on-virus-immunity-11602541808

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on October 12, 2020, 06:54:02 PM

COVID-19 Pandemic voting.

Georgia opened early in person voting today. Over 120,000 people showed up.

https://twitter.com/ByTylerEstep/status/1315662020453240833?s=19

These people waited 11 hours in line to vote today:

https://twitter.com/johntalsr/status/1315774645061246976?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on October 12, 2020, 06:56:49 PM

The Mayor of Manchester, Tennessee, Lonnie Norman passed away today from COVID-19. He had been hospitalized or it since October 1st.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1242958?__twitter_impression=true

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on October 12, 2020, 07:00:43 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on October 12, 2020, 06:54:02 PM

COVID-19 Pandemic voting.

Georgia opened early in person voting today. Over 120,000 people showed up.

https://twitter.com/ByTylerEstep/status/1315662020453240833?s=19

These people waited 11 hours in line to vote today:

https://twitter.com/johntalsr/status/1315774645061246976?s=19

Georgia is in a class by themselves when it comes to voter suppression.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 12, 2020, 07:01:21 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on October 12, 2020, 05:43:36 PM

Not great news for herd mentality.

A Nevada man became the first published case of Covid-19 reinfection in the U.S., adding to a growing number of examples world-wide signaling that patients who have recovered from the viral disease might still be at risk of getting it again.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-reinfection-documented-in-nevada-adds-to-questions-on-virus-immunity-11602541808

And yet the most famous coronavirus patient in the world, who is appearing publicly even though he might still be contagious, is claiming he's now "immune."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Billy Hoyle on October 12, 2020, 07:02:01 PM

Quote from: Jockey on October 12, 2020, 07:00:43 PM

Georgia is in a class by themselves when it comes to voter suppression.

Oh yeah? You ain't seen nothing yet.
-Ron DeSantis and Greg Abbott.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 12, 2020, 07:05:54 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on October 12, 2020, 06:54:02 PM

COVID-19 Pandemic voting.

Georgia opened early in person voting today. Over 120,000 people showed up.

https://twitter.com/ByTylerEstep/status/1315662020453240833?s=19

These people waited 11 hours in line to vote today:

https://twitter.com/johntalsr/status/1315774645061246976?s=19

Three things:

1. The line probably looks longer than it is because of the social-distancing rules, which obviously should be followed.

2. The voting process no doubt is taking longer because of extra COVID-19 precautions once inside the polling place.

3. I am heartened to see all of these people willing to wait in line to vote. It reminds me of when Florida tried to suppress the vote in 2012 but Obama supporters waited in line for 8-12 hours to cast their votes. oh, and I actually am heartened even if lots of those folks are Trump voters. Everybody has the right to vote.

Early voting in NC begins Thursday. I am planning on going Friday or next Monday. I have a feeling the first day could be a total shyteshow; I'll let them get the kinks out.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Billy Hoyle on October 12, 2020, 07:07:05 PM

Quote from: MU82 on October 12, 2020, 07:01:21 PM

And yet the most famous coronavirus patient in the world, who is appearing publicly even though he might still be contagious, is claiming he's now "immune."

From a WH source: "Either they think he's lying about testing negative, or they think he's lying about ever having it. After four years of lying, no one knows what to believe from him any more." - Brian J. Karem (Twitter).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 12, 2020, 07:12:36 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on October 12, 2020, 05:43:36 PM

Not great news for herd mentality.

A Nevada man became the first published case of Covid-19 reinfection in the U.S., adding to a growing number of examples world-wide signaling that patients who have recovered from the viral disease might still be at risk of getting it again.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-reinfection-documented-in-nevada-adds-to-questions-on-virus-immunity-11602541808

One of the really scary things is that two of the four reinfection cases reported in the article were actually worse the second time around. The guy in Nevada had mild illness the first time around, and had to be hospitalized the second. Almost as though his body was seeing the virus for the first time.... :(

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on October 12, 2020, 09:57:30 PM

Long lines for early voting is NOT voter suppression.

These people are choosing to vote on Day 1 of many.

It's like people lining up for the newest iPhone on launch day.   You can get the same phone in a couple days without the wait.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 13, 2020, 12:41:28 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on October 12, 2020, 09:57:30 PM

Long lines for early voting is NOT voter suppression.

These people are choosing to vote on Day 1 of many.

It's like people lining up for the newest iPhone on launch day.   You can get the same phone in a couple days without the wait.

We might not have enough information to know if it's voter suppression.

Did this district or area or town or county, which usually had X number of polling places, reduce that to Y number of polling places at the behest of the party in charge, likely for the sole purpose of making it more difficult to vote?

If so, it's voter suppression.

Were things roughly equal to the norm, when there was voter suppression in the past?

If so, it's voter suppression.

Were things roughly equal to or better than the norm, when there was not voter suppression in the past?

If so, it's not voter suppression.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on October 13, 2020, 06:35:24 AM

Quote from: MU82 on October 13, 2020, 12:41:28 AM

We might not have enough information to know if it's voter suppression.

Did this district or area or town or county, which usually had X number of polling places, reduce that to Y number of polling places at the behest of the party in charge, likely for the sole purpose of making it more difficult to vote?

If so, it's voter suppression.

Were things roughly equal to the norm, when there was voter suppression in the past?

If so, it's voter suppression.

Were things roughly equal to or better than the norm, when there was not voter suppression in the past?

If so, it's not voter suppression.

The area shown in the video is in affluent northern suburban Atlanta. I could be wrong, but that is not generally the kind of area where suppression tactics are utilized (if you know what I mean). 

I think it’s more likely that high turnout in first day of early voting swamped the polling location.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on October 13, 2020, 06:57:06 AM

My metropolitan area currently has the highest rate of infestation that we have had at any point of the pandemic.    Nowhere near done.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on October 13, 2020, 07:11:32 AM

Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on October 13, 2020, 06:35:24 AM

The area shown in the video is in affluent northern suburban Atlanta. I could be wrong, but that is not generally the kind of area where suppression tactics are utilized (if you know what I mean). 

I think it’s more likely that high turnout in first day of early voting swamped the polling location.

"Wait times in White Buckhead 15 minutes. Wait times in Black South Cobb 5 hours."

https://twitter.com/AriBerman/status/1315716547898494980?s=19

#chefsforthepolls

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on October 13, 2020, 10:03:18 AM

Quote from: MU82 on October 13, 2020, 12:41:28 AM

If so, it's voter suppression.

If so, it's voter suppression.

If so, it's not voter suppression.

You missed a word.   On Day 1, it's "early voter suppression" which amounts to a self-inflicted inconvenience that plays well on TV.

Don't get me wrong, there's an entire political party that is criminally attempting voter suppression.   Long lines on Day 1 of XX is not the plan.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 13, 2020, 10:16:50 AM

Since we are on 'voter suppression' and other unusual practices in this unique election, there's the interesting case of the Republican Party's unofficial 'official' drop boxes in parts of California.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/12/us/politics/california-gop-drop-boxes.html

When I first heard about the story, I wondered if they might be putting the boxes in Democrat-strong areas, with the intent of dumping the ballots. As it turns out, they are in 'Republican' areas, including 'near churches, gun shops and Republican Party offices, mostly in conservative areas of a deep-blue state'...which seems to support their claims that they are actually trying to make it easier for Rs to vote. Either way, it is yet another very strange place this divisive and Covid-dominated election cycle has taken us....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on October 13, 2020, 10:44:14 AM

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1242995?__twitter_impression=true

"Research shows race is one of the strongest predictors of how long a person waits in line to vote."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1242995?__twitter_impression=true

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on October 13, 2020, 10:48:43 AM

 https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1316038614627889152?s=19

Two dozen COVID-19 cases in Minnesota officially linked to outdoor Trump airport rallies.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 13, 2020, 02:49:18 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on October 13, 2020, 10:03:18 AM

You missed a word.   On Day 1, it's "early voter suppression" which amounts to a self-inflicted inconvenience that plays well on TV.

Don't get me wrong, there's an entire political party that is criminally attempting voter suppression.   Long lines on Day 1 of XX is not the plan.

Hmmm. See other posts about wait times where it's majority white and majority Black. Even on Day 1.

Trying to stay open-minded, though. Really. I like to think the best of people.

Then again ...

Quote from: shoothoops on October 13, 2020, 10:48:43 AM

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1316038614627889152?s=19

Two dozen COVID-19 cases in Minnesota officially linked to outdoor Trump airport rallies.

Sigh.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on October 13, 2020, 05:53:21 PM

With 2 hours to go, Harris County Texas has set a single day early voting record with 109,000 ballots cast.

They have 122 early voting locations and 22 drive through sites.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 13, 2020, 06:14:28 PM

Already 10.6 million ballots cast as of this morning. Several states have already exceeded 20% of the TOTAL votes cast in the 2016 election.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/13/early-voting-in-2020-us-election-already-smashing-2016-levels.html

The numbers this year are going to be huge....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on October 13, 2020, 06:28:42 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on October 13, 2020, 05:53:21 PM

With 2 hours to go, Harris County Texas has set a single day early voting record with 109,000 ballots cast.

They have 122 early voting locations and 22 drive through sites.

97% of eligible voters in Travis County, TX (850,000) are now registered to vote.

https://www.statesman.com/news/20201013/travis-county-early-voting-32000-people-cast-ballots-as-of-6-pm-tuesday?template=ampart&__twitter_impression=true

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on October 13, 2020, 07:44:27 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on October 13, 2020, 06:28:42 PM

97% of eligible voters in Travis County, TX (850,000) are now registered to vote.

https://www.statesman.com/news/20201013/travis-county-early-voting-32000-people-cast-ballots-as-of-6-pm-tuesday?template=ampart&__twitter_impression=true

Rookie numbers. As a Chicagoan we're aiming for 120% participation, at least.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on October 13, 2020, 08:28:59 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on October 13, 2020, 05:53:21 PM

With 2 hours to go, Harris County Texas has set a single day early voting record with 109,000 ballots cast.

They have 122 early voting locations and 22 drive through sites.

128,000 and counting, one day, one county.

https://twitter.com/HarrisVotes/status/1316179752009560068?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on October 13, 2020, 09:02:45 PM

https://www.newsweek.com/white-house-embraces-herd-immunity-latest-push-end-covid-19-lockdowns-1538430

The White House is doubling down on its push to reopen the economy, now openly embracing a herd immunity strategy at the urging of some health experts.

Two senior advisers told Newsweek and other media outlets on Monday that the Trump administration supports the Great Barrington Declaration, a controversial document that argues against lockdowns and calls for a reopening of schools, businesses and other entities, while protecting people deemed vulnerable to the virus because of age or other risk factors.


"I think Americans should be cautiously optimistic about what's going on here," one of the officials said.

The officials were not authorized to speak on-the-record about the matter, but both defended the decision to move toward a broad-scale reopening, even though at least 5,900 people in the United States died with COVID-19 last week.

The coronavirus has contributed to the deaths of more than 214,000 people in the U.S. since the pandemic began earlier this year.


Experts have argued that approaching "herd immunity"—essentially allowing more people to contract COVID-19 in the hopes that they would quickly recover and create a mass immunity—would likely result in many more deaths and illnesses.

According to the latest projections from the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation, the U.S. death toll is on track to reach 392,460 by January 31, with current protections in place. If restrictions are eased, IHME projects that 497,034 Americans will have died by that date, more than 100,000 additional deaths.

WHO director-general Tedros Ghebreyesus told reporters during a virtual press briefing on Monday that such an approach would be "unethical."

"Herd immunity is achieved by protecting people from a virus, not by exposing them to it," he said.

President Donald Trump has mentioned the idea in the past, mistakenly referring to it as "herd mentality," and the idea has been pushed by some of the president's favorite conservative personalities, including Fox News' Laura Ingraham.

The Great Barrington Document, released last week, was authored by Sunetra Gupta of the University of Oxford, Jay Bhattacharya of Stanford University, and Martin Kulldorff of Harvard University. Thousands of additional scientists have signed onto the open petition, though media outlets have reported some fake names on the list.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 13, 2020, 10:56:53 PM

I nominate Laura Ingraham and her entire family as the first to die.

I really don't want anybody to die, but I get tired of the Laura Ingrahams happily sacrificing others. Mostly people of color, older folks and/or those of relatively modest means. They are all disposable to her ilk.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on October 14, 2020, 12:23:35 AM

Quote from: MU82 on October 13, 2020, 10:56:53 PM

I nominate Laura Ingraham and her entire family as the first to die.

I really don't want anybody to die, but I get tired of the Laura Ingrahams happily sacrificing others. Mostly people of color, older folks and/or those of relatively modest means. They are all disposable to her ilk.

This really doesn't help the conversation.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on October 14, 2020, 08:54:47 AM

About 75,000 more Americans died from COVID-19 pandemic than reported in spring and summer, study finds
Adrianna Rodriguez
USA TODAY

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/10/12/us-covid-deaths-75-k-more-americans-died-than-previously-recorded-excess-deaths/5935813002/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on October 14, 2020, 09:17:59 AM

There may be reason to be suspicious of the Great Barrington Declaration.

A widely-circulated open letter calling on governments to pursue herd immunity is counting homeopaths, therapists and fake names among its "medical" signatories, leading to accusations that it falsely represents scientific support for the controversial position.
The Great Barrington Declaration, a letter organised by prominent advocates of herd immunity, claims to have been signed by more than 15,000 scientists and medical practitioners, as well as more than 150,000 members of the general public.
Yet Sky News found dozens of fake names on the list of medical signatories, which anyone can add to if they tick a box and enter a name. These included Dr. I.P. Freely, Dr. Person Fakename and Dr. Johnny Bananas, who listed himself as a "Dr of Hard Sums".
One medical professional on the list gives his name as Dr Harold Shipman, a general practitioner in the United Kingdom.
A GP called Harold Shipman killed more than 200 of his patients before he was arrested in 1998.
Other famous names included Dominic Cummings, who is described as "PhD Durham Univercity".
Sky News also found 18 self-declared homeopaths listed on the open letter as medical practitioners, despite the fact that homeopathy has no scientific underpinning or clinical evidence to support its use.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-dr-johnny-bananas-and-dr-person-fakename-among-medical-signatories-on-herd-immunity-open-letter-12099947

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on October 14, 2020, 09:22:42 AM

Herd Immunity or ‘burn through’ is the next great magic pill. 

Slowly reality is being accepted by more people that a matrix of items are going to be needed for the foreseeable future. Masks, vaccines, better therapies, distancing and certainly the change in behavior where you work sick are all likely going forward.  Hopefully the medical advances reduce the more annoying things like distancing. 

As an editorial, I wish my government would work on advancing more of these items as we cross this bridge (therapies, paid sick leave, stimulus)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on October 14, 2020, 12:15:28 PM

Sweet 16 party on Long Island leads to 37 cases and 270 people in quarantine.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/sweet-16-party-connected-37-covid-19-cases/story?id=73596338

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on October 14, 2020, 12:22:24 PM

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/10/14/trump-ditched-obama-pandemic-plan-but-ignored-aspects-his-own/5953152002/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on October 14, 2020, 12:24:56 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on October 14, 2020, 09:22:42 AM

Here Immunity or ‘burn through’ is the next great magic pill. 

Slowly reality is being accepted by more people that a matrix of items are going to be needed for the foreseeable future. Masks, vaccines, better therapies, distancing and certainly the change in behavior where you work sick are all likely going forward.  Hopefully the medical advances reduce the more annoying things like distancing. 

As an editorial, I wish my government would work on advancing more of these items as we cross this bridge (therapies, paid sick leave, stimulus)

Speaking of bridges, I got one that I will sell to you cheap.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on October 14, 2020, 01:08:33 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on October 13, 2020, 08:28:59 PM

128,000 and counting, one day, one county.

https://twitter.com/HarrisVotes/status/1316179752009560068?s=19

Day 2:

https://twitter.com/WCKitchen/status/1316418702338912256?s=19

Day 1 had over 1 million voters:

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/politics/texas/article/Texas-surpassed-1-million-votes-on-first-day-of-15647238.php?utm_campaign=CMS%20Sharing%20Tools%20(Premium)&utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 14, 2020, 01:29:53 PM

NYT has a ballot tracker that will be regularly updated with available information.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/elections/absentee-ballot-early-voting.html

As of right now, about 13.4 million ballots have been cast (12.2 absentee ballots returned, 1.2 million early votes cast).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on October 14, 2020, 01:41:54 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on October 14, 2020, 01:08:33 PM

Day 2:

https://twitter.com/WCKitchen/status/1316418702338912256?s=19

Day 1 had over 1 million voters:

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/politics/texas/article/Texas-surpassed-1-million-votes-on-first-day-of-15647238.php?utm_campaign=CMS%20Sharing%20Tools%20(Premium)&utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral

Having hundreds of locations as well as dozens of drop off locations has been well done in Houston. I know other states with extremely limited early voting, one location, etc...This really needs to be a nationwide effort.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 14, 2020, 05:21:34 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on October 14, 2020, 01:29:53 PM

NYT has a ballot tracker that will be regularly updated with available information.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/elections/absentee-ballot-early-voting.html

As of right now, about 13.4 million ballots have been cast (12.2 absentee ballots returned, 1.2 million early votes cast).

Extremely interesting, Goooooooooooooooo. Thanks for providing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on October 15, 2020, 01:45:00 PM

Quote from: Jockey on October 14, 2020, 12:22:24 PM

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/10/14/trump-ditched-obama-pandemic-plan-but-ignored-aspects-his-own/5953152002/

Monty Python explains Obama'/s failures:
(https://i.lensdump.com/i/jCRHuM.gif)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on October 15, 2020, 01:59:41 PM

So funny.   And so true.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 16, 2020, 08:22:19 AM

Republican Sen. Ben Sasse of Nebraska rips Trump on a variety of issues, especially his coronavirus response -- saying, among other things, that Trump treated COVID-19 like "a P.R. crisis" rather than a health crisis.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/campaigns/exclusive-gop-sen-sasse-says-trump-kisses-dictators-butts-mocks-evangelicals

“In his partial defense here, I think that lots of the news media has pretended that COVID is literally the first public health crisis ever. And somehow, it's Donald Trump's fault. That's not true. They just wanted to use it against him," Sasse said.

"But the reality is that he careened from curb to curb. First, he ignored COVID. And then he went into full economic shutdown mode. He was the one who said 10 to 14 days of shutdown would fix this. And that was always wrong. I mean, and so I don't think the way he's lead through COVID has been reasonable or responsible, or right.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 16, 2020, 08:37:22 AM

The White House has installed two political operatives at the nation’s top public health agency to try to control the information it releases about the coronavirus pandemic as the administration seeks to paint a positive outlook, sometimes at odds with the scientific evidence.

https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-virus-outbreak-donald-trump-pandemics-elections-6e638bcaaebe4b5e83721440203b7511?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=AP%20Morning%20Wire&utm_term=Morning%20Wire%20Subscribers

The two appointees assigned to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s Atlanta headquarters in June have no public health background.

They have instead been tasked with keeping an eye on Dr. Robert Redfield, the agency director, as well as scientists, according to a half-dozen CDC and administration officials who spoke to the AP on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal government affairs.

When the two appointees showed up in Atlanta, their roles were a mystery to senior CDC staff. Eventually one, Nina Witkofsky, became acting chief of staff, an influential role as Redfield’s right hand. The other, her deputy Chester “Trey” Moeller, also began sitting in on scientific meetings, the sources said.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on October 16, 2020, 11:26:09 AM

One more reason to avoid information coming out of the CDC.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 16, 2020, 01:47:41 PM

Quote from: Jockey on October 16, 2020, 11:26:09 AM

One more reason to avoid information coming out of the CDC.

It really is unfortunate how this administration politicized CDC. Through decades of Democratic and Republican regimes, it had maintained a stellar reputation as the world's gold-standard for public health information and research...specifically because presidents on both sides of the aisle largely let them do their jobs as scientists.

I certainly hope things revert to past practices after the election, so the world class scientists at the agency can get back to doing what they do best, unhampered by political agendas....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on October 16, 2020, 11:42:35 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on October 16, 2020, 01:47:41 PM

It really is unfortunate how this administration politicized CDC. Through decades of Democratic and Republican regimes, it had maintained a stellar reputation as the world's gold-standard for public health information and research...specifically because presidents on both sides of the aisle largely let them do their jobs as scientists.

I certainly hope things revert to past practices after the election, so the world class scientists at the agency can get back to doing what they do best, unhampered by political agendas....

Absolutely. At many points earlier in this thread, I said listen to the CDC. Trust the CDC. They are the gold standard.

Now? They have been completely corrupted by this administration. They lie. They make bogus recommendations. They cannot be trusted anymore and need to be ignored.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on October 17, 2020, 07:32:38 AM

Quote from: Jockey on October 16, 2020, 11:42:35 PM

Absolutely. At many points earlier in this thread, I said listen to the CDC. Trust the CDC. They are the gold standard.

Now? They have been completely corrupted by this administration. They lie. They make bogus recommendations. They cannot be trusted anymore and need to be ignored.

"They" in the "they lie" is not the scientists. It's the political appointees. So hopefully it is fixable.

https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-virus-outbreak-pandemics-public-health-new-york-e321f4c9098b4db4dd6b1eda76a5179e

"NEW YORK (AP) — The Trump White House has installed two political operatives at the nation’s top public health agency to try to control the information it releases about the coronavirus pandemic as the administration seeks to paint a positive outlook, sometimes at odds with the scientific evidence.

The two appointees assigned to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s Atlanta headquarters in June have no public health background. They have instead been tasked with keeping an eye on Dr. Robert Redfield, the agency director, as well as scientists, according to a half-dozen CDC and administration officials who spoke to The Associated Press on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal government affairs."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on October 17, 2020, 01:23:28 PM

Which tests are NFL players getting? They seem fairly unreliable with many being false positives. Is this different than the general public? Or does the general public follow a similar process? If positive, you confirm with the POC test.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 17, 2020, 01:46:41 PM

Quote from: cheebs09 on October 17, 2020, 01:23:28 PM

Which tests are NFL players getting? They seem fairly unreliable with many being false positives. Is this different than the general public? Or does the general public follow a similar process? If positive, you confirm with the POC test.

The NFL has contracted with Bioreference Laboratories for its tests. I believe this lab does a lot of testing on samples from the public.

https://www.bioreference.com/bioreference-labs-says-it-will-conduct-coronavirus-testing-for-all-32-nfl-teams/

The routine, mandatory tests are rapid PCR tests, but they also utilize antibody testing.

https://www.playsmartplaysafe.com/newsroom/fact-sheets/nfl-nflpa-covid-19-testing-treatment-protocols-fact-sheet/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on October 17, 2020, 03:13:38 PM

This was an interesting read/theory that some of the severe child and potentially long haul cases are due to the virus staying active in the gut.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/10/super-antigen-tied-multisystem-inflammatory-syndrome-children-long-covid/ (https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/10/super-antigen-tied-multisystem-inflammatory-syndrome-children-long-covid/)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on October 17, 2020, 03:14:57 PM

Quote from: cheebs09 on October 17, 2020, 01:23:28 PM

Which tests are NFL players getting? They seem fairly unreliable with many being false positives. Is this different than the general public? Or does the general public follow a similar process? If positive, you confirm with the POC test.

I don't think it is so much an issue with the tests, rather it is what is expected with as much testing as they are doing. Every player and essential personnel is tested EVERY day. That means these organizations may be doing 200 tests a day.

Even if the false positive rate was only 0.5%, you'd expect a false positive daily. What you are seeing is a side effect of massive testing platforms.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 17, 2020, 04:48:40 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on October 17, 2020, 03:13:38 PM

This was an interesting read/theory that some of the severe child and potentially long haul cases are due to the virus staying active in the gut.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/10/super-antigen-tied-multisystem-inflammatory-syndrome-children-long-covid/ (https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/10/super-antigen-tied-multisystem-inflammatory-syndrome-children-long-covid/)

It is one of the under-reported stories of this pandemic. So many survivors have had their lives altered.

And obviously we don’t know yet how long a haul these folks are in for. Maybe the rest of their lives. I personally know 2 of them. Feel so bad for them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 17, 2020, 06:06:20 PM

Quote from: MU82 on October 17, 2020, 04:48:40 PM

It is one of the under-reported stories of this pandemic. So many survivors have had their lives altered.

And obviously we don’t know yet how long a haul these folks are in for. Maybe the rest of their lives. I personally know 2 of them. Feel so bad for them.

Yep. So many going through a seemingly endless nightmare. The medical community has made great strides in cutting the death rate; it would be great to see progress in this area.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on October 18, 2020, 09:50:49 AM

Surprise!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/10/17/sturgis-rally-spread/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 18, 2020, 09:57:21 AM

Not just from Sturgis, though. All through the country, COVID-19 is surging in states less likely to have observed mask-wearing and social-distancing mitigation efforts. In other words, red states. Very sad, and mostly avoidable.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-surge-in-republican-areas-124951839.html

(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/NhaXtjTLJSGtd_m5zEtApg--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTk2MDtoPTcwOS42NDE4NzMyNzgyMzY5/https://media-mbst-pub-ue1.s3.amazonaws.com/creatr-uploaded-images/2020-10/f55fa930-1074-11eb-9ccb-253753b2088a)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 18, 2020, 10:47:46 AM

Quote from: MU82 on October 18, 2020, 09:57:21 AM

Not just from Sturgis, though. All through the country, COVID-19 is surging in states less likely to have observed mask-wearing and social-distancing mitigation efforts. In other words, red states. Very sad, and mostly avoidable.

Correct. In the upper Midwest, the governors of ND, SD and IA have declined to implement mask mandates, while the WI governor has imposed one that has been repeatedly challenged by the GOP-controlled legislature.

Not surprisingly, those four states are currently #1, #2, #4 and #8 in new cases per capita over the past 7 days. ND and SD are especially terrifying, with rates that are approaching 2X even the next highest states. (in per 100K residents: ND - 608; SD - 527; MT - 390; WI - 342; NE - 282....).

And to add to the significance of these numbers, ND, SD, MT and NE are four of the eight least populated states in terms of people per square mile. That should lead to lower spread, so the fact that they lead in cases per capita is just staggering.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on October 18, 2020, 10:59:04 AM

Quote from: MU82 on October 18, 2020, 09:57:21 AM

Not just from Sturgis, though. All through the country, COVID-19 is surging in states less likely to have observed mask-wearing and social-distancing mitigation efforts. In other words, red states. Very sad, and mostly avoidable.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-surge-in-republican-areas-124951839.html

(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/NhaXtjTLJSGtd_m5zEtApg--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTk2MDtoPTcwOS42NDE4NzMyNzgyMzY5/https://media-mbst-pub-ue1.s3.amazonaws.com/creatr-uploaded-images/2020-10/f55fa930-1074-11eb-9ccb-253753b2088a)

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. And in this case, listen to stupid leaders, win deadly prizes.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on October 18, 2020, 02:17:29 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on October 18, 2020, 10:59:04 AM

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. And in this case, listen to stupid leaders, win deadly prizes.

And then waste our tax dollars keeping these people alive. They don’t care if they get the virus, don’t care if they infect and kill others.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on October 18, 2020, 02:34:07 PM

Quote from: Jockey on October 18, 2020, 02:17:29 PM

And then waste our tax dollars keeping these people alive. They don’t care if they get the virus, don’t care if they infect and kill others.

I drove past a Catholic Church today, and they had a sign that said vote pro life. I laughed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on October 18, 2020, 04:03:18 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on October 18, 2020, 02:34:07 PM

I drove past a Catholic Church today, and they had a sign that said vote pro life. I laughed.

I imagine they advise their flock to seek out the US Conference of Catholic Bishop's voter guide to see which candidate aligns with Catholic values ..right? https://www.catholicvoterguide.com ..

(https://snipboard.io/zB9sja.jpg)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on October 18, 2020, 04:36:29 PM

In his homily today, my parish priest referenced e-mails he has received from people he has never heard of telling him that it is his responsibility as the pastor to tell his parishioners to vote (either party) or face going to hell.     With the Gospel reading being about rendering unto Caesar what is Caesar's and rendering unto God what is God's, he took the rest of his sermon to talk about the Catholic responsibility to engage, about discernment, about Fratelli tutti, and how it is every Catholic's responsibility to look at all of the issues. 
Very balanced.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on October 18, 2020, 06:07:27 PM

"Inside the fall of The CDC."

"How the world's greatest health organization was brought to its knees by a virus, the president and the capitulation if its own leaders causing damage that could last much longer than the coronavirus."

https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-the-fall-of-the-cdc/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on October 18, 2020, 06:35:27 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on October 18, 2020, 06:07:27 PM

"Inside the fall of The CDC."

"How the world's greatest health organization was brought to its knees by a virus, the president and the capitulation if its own leaders causing damage that could last much longer than the coronavirus."

https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-the-fall-of-the-cdc/amp?__twitter_impression=true

You are preachin' to the choir, hoops. I have been saying this for at least 3 months now.

Sad - because if you look back to the early days of this thread, I was the one extolling the CDC as THE people to listen to. I told people here to do whatever they say.

Sadly, they are now merely accomplices to the White House in the killing of Americans.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on October 18, 2020, 07:24:21 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on October 18, 2020, 04:03:18 PM

I imagine they advise their flock to seek out the US Conference of Catholic Bishop's voter guide to see which candidate aligns with Catholic values ..right? https://www.catholicvoterguide.com ..

(https://snipboard.io/zB9sja.jpg)

Perhaps if they spent less time putting up the sign and more time putting in this.....lol:

https://twitter.com/RebekaDawn/status/1317843731404435456?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on October 19, 2020, 10:43:31 AM

Some good news.  Over time, it *appears* (not peer reviewed) damage to the lungs due to Covid will heal.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/18/health/Covid-lung-damage-recovery.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: BM1090 on October 19, 2020, 11:14:40 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on October 19, 2020, 10:43:31 AM

Some good news.  Over time, it *appears* (not peer reviewed) damage to the lungs due to Covid will heal.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/18/health/Covid-lung-damage-recovery.html

Anecdotal, but one of my co-workers had this experience. She is middle-aged with severe asthma. She had trouble breathing for almost three months after COVID, to the point that she was unable to work or talk to others. She is back to normal now and her doctors have told her she shouldn't worry about any long-term issues.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 19, 2020, 01:56:30 PM

That's good news, rocky and BM. Here's hoping similar results will occur, over time, with some of the other conditions that survivors are experiencing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on October 19, 2020, 02:17:22 PM

The Washington Post is reporting there is much dissension within the COVID19 task force that Dr. Deborah Birx wants Mike Pence to get rid of the Fox News doctor for spreading disinformation to Trump

Dr. Birx had been one of Trump's favorites until she became heavily criticized for downplaying the coronavirus and now has been replaced as the face of the Task Force by Dr. Scott Atlas, a purveyor of right-wing fringe conspiracies and ideas on how to treat the virus.

As the White House coronavirus response coordinator, Birx is tasked with collecting and analyzing infection data and compiling charts detailing upticks and other trends. But Atlas routinely has challenged Birx’s analysis and those of other doctors, including Anthony S. Fauci, CDC Director Redfield, and FDA Commissioner Hahn, with what the other doctors considered junk science, according to three senior administration officials

Dr. Atlas has been promoting right-wing fringe theories that "masks don't protect you," "we should slow down testing," "kids should go to school because they don't transmit the disease or get very sick," and that herd immunity is the key in defeating COVID-19."

Dr. Birx finally had enough of the charlatan and recently confronted the Pence about the acrimony, according to people familiar with the meeting. Birx, whose profile and influence has eroded considerably since Atlas’s arrival, told Pence’s office that she does not trust Atlas, does not believe he is giving Trump sound advice and wants him removed from the task force.

Pence refuses to take a side and told them to bring data bolstering their perspectives to the task force and to work out their disagreements themselves, according to two senior administration officials.

Is it any wonder that the federal response to the coronavirus is in shambles? The American people are now at a more severe risk of contracting this virus as the winter approaches.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on October 19, 2020, 02:20:51 PM

Clearly we are locked into our strategy at this point.  I just hope someone on that pandemic team recognized this and ordered enough PPE and drugs to help the doctors out of the next onslaught. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on October 19, 2020, 02:23:19 PM

Frenns, It obviously won't be Fauci.

President Donald Trump on Monday lashed out at medical experts and complained about people being tired of hearing about COVID-19, as the confirmed death toll in the U.S. ticked closer to 220,000 and the spread of the disease continued to accelerate.  Trump made the comments on a call with campaign staffers, seeking to pass blame for the pandemic and seemingly lamenting his inability to shift the national conversation.

“People are tired of Covid,” Trump said. “People are tired of hearing Fauci and these idiots, all these idiots who got it wrong. Every time he goes on television, there’s always a bomb, but there’s a bigger bomb if you fire him. This guy’s a disaster.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on October 19, 2020, 02:25:15 PM

Not should it be.  If everyone is marginalized back to their home bases, he would be working on treatments and vaccines. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on October 19, 2020, 03:13:32 PM

My own suspicion is that if Trump wins in November, he will get rid of Dr. Fauci. But he can’t do it before the election because there would be enormous blowback.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on October 19, 2020, 03:19:32 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on October 19, 2020, 03:13:32 PM

My own suspicion is that if Trump wins in November, he will get rid of Dr. Fauci. But he can’t do it before the election because there would be enormous blowback.

I agree. It will be full speed ahead on herd immunity. The deaths we have seen so far will pale in comparison to what will come.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 19, 2020, 03:45:10 PM

Quote from: Jockey on October 19, 2020, 03:19:32 PM

I agree. It will be full speed ahead on herd immunity. The deaths we have seen so far will pale in comparison to what will come.

aka Burnin' Down the House

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on October 19, 2020, 03:58:17 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on October 19, 2020, 03:45:10 PM

aka Burnin' Down the House

We’ve got a Psycho Killer leading us down a Road to Nowhere in this covid Life During Wartime.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 19, 2020, 04:20:16 PM

Quote from: Jockey on October 19, 2020, 03:58:17 PM

We’ve got a Psycho Killer leading us down a Road to Nowhere in this covid Life During Wartime.

We might never have gotten into this Once In A Lifetime mess if only he had Found a Job where he could actually make more money than he lost. Instead, he took over The Big Country, ignored the Cities, and brought in a bunch of Slippery People. And She Was grabbed by the p****.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Billy Hoyle on October 19, 2020, 04:38:04 PM

Quote from: Jockey on October 19, 2020, 03:58:17 PM

We’ve got a Psycho Killer leading us down a Road to Nowhere in this covid Life During Wartime.

hopefully, only for a few more weeks....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on October 19, 2020, 04:39:35 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on October 19, 2020, 04:20:16 PM

We might never have gotten into this Once In A Lifetime mess if only he had Found a Job where he could actually make more money than he lost. Instead, he took over The Big Country, ignored the Cities, and brought in a bunch of Slippery People. And She Was grabbed by the p****.

Have you seen the David Byrne broadway show on HBO? I haven’t checked it out yet.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 19, 2020, 04:55:10 PM

Quote from: Jockey on October 19, 2020, 04:39:35 PM

Have you seen the David Byrne broadway show on HBO? I haven’t checked it out yet.

Haven't yet, but I plan to.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Billy Hoyle on October 19, 2020, 05:22:13 PM

Quote from: Jockey on October 19, 2020, 02:17:22 PM

Dr. Birx had been one of Trump's favorites until she became heavily criticized for downplaying the coronavirus and now has been replaced as the face of the Task Force by Dr. Scott Atlas, a purveyor of right-wing fringe conspiracies and ideas on how to treat the virus.

whom Trump referred to as "Scott Adams" during the town hall comedy show the other night.  Though it wouldn't surprise me if the Dilbert guy really was the top guy on the task force.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 19, 2020, 05:37:12 PM

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on October 19, 2020, 05:22:13 PM

whom Trump referred to as "Scott Adams" during the town hall comedy show the other night.  Though it wouldn't surprise me if the Dilbert guy really was the top guy on the task force.

I'd rip that softball into the center field upper deck if it wouldn't risk the dreaded banhammer....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 19, 2020, 09:52:32 PM

There was no more loyal soldier when it came to COVID-19 than Dr. Birx. She covered for Trump, she stayed stoic when he was asking her to research injecting Lysol into human bodies, and she lied for him on multiple occasions. But the one time she pushed back a little bit by defending the science, he immediately called her "pathetic."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on October 19, 2020, 10:51:42 PM

Quote from: MU82 on October 19, 2020, 09:52:32 PM

There was no more loyal soldier when it came to COVID-19 than Dr. Birx. She covered for Trump, she stayed stoic when he was asking her to research injecting Lysol into human bodies, and she lied for him on multiple occasions. But the one time she pushed back a little bit by defending the science, he immediately called her "pathetic."

Hence, the reason that I called her a poser a couple months ago. She is way too smart to toss out her dignity so easily. I don’t know how he gets people to do this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 21, 2020, 06:49:20 PM

Couple of interesting nuggets I just read ...

Bad News: Virus-related hospitalizations have risen by at least 5% in 37 states in recent days, CNBC said in analysis published Monday. Smaller hospitals in rural areas are struggling to respond. A hospital in North Dakota had to transfer patients to other states, and another in Iowa faced staffing shortages as employees became infected, NPR reported. Dr. Robert Redfield, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said last week that “small household gatherings” were fueling a jump. In rural Tennessee, Dr. Martin Chaney said he’s seeing that first-hand. “It’s families getting together, small groups of people gathering, they let their guard down, they’re not distancing, they’re taking their masks off,” Chaney said.

Good News: “Game-changer” saliva tests developed in part at the University of South Carolina have allowed the university to conduct more than 30,000 COVID-19 tests since Aug. 1. University officials say the tests are just as accurate as traditional, nasal swab tests. The results come back in a fraction of the time needed for nasal tests, and spitting into a cup is less uncomfortable. South Carolina announced Wednesday that it will export the test to other colleges in the state, including rival Clemson.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on October 21, 2020, 06:59:16 PM

Quote from: MU82 on October 21, 2020, 06:49:20 PM

Couple of interesting nuggets I just read ...

Bad News: Virus-related hospitalizations have risen by at least 5% in 37 states in recent days, CNBC said in analysis published Monday. Smaller hospitals in rural areas are struggling to respond. A hospital in North Dakota had to transfer patients to other states, and another in Iowa faced staffing shortages as employees became infected, NPR reported. Dr. Robert Redfield, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said last week that “small household gatherings” were fueling a jump. In rural Tennessee, Dr. Martin Chaney said he’s seeing that first-hand. “It’s families getting together, small groups of people gathering, they let their guard down, they’re not distancing, they’re taking their masks off,” Chaney said.

Good News: “Game-changer” saliva tests developed in part at the University of South Carolina have allowed the university to conduct more than 30,000 COVID-19 tests since Aug. 1. University officials say the tests are just as accurate as traditional, nasal swab tests. The results come back in a fraction of the time needed for nasal tests, and spitting into a cup is less uncomfortable. South Carolina announced Wednesday that it will export the test to other colleges in the state, including rival Clemson.

Saw both as well.  The saliva tests have been coming back with strong accuracy with just a simple swab inside the mouth.  Now if those can become available to everyone like a pregnancy test that would be a huge game changer

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 21, 2020, 07:44:12 PM

Fast accurate saliva tests would be huge. Gotta get 'em made and widely distributed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on October 21, 2020, 10:49:06 PM

That would truly be a game changer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 22, 2020, 06:21:26 PM

3 dead, 5 hospitalized among 82 cases tied to Charlotte church.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/coronavirus/article246630213.html?ac_cid=DM307644&ac_bid=-1672305050

COVID-19 cases connected to events at a Charlotte church continue to climb, with 82 cases and three deaths reported as of Thursday night.

Mecklenburg County Public Health has attempted to contact 131 close contacts of the 82 people with confirmed cases of COVID-19 linked to the events at United House of Prayer for All People on Beatties Ford Road.

At least five people have been hospitalized in connection with the church outbreak, Mecklenburg Deputy Health Director Raynard Washington said in a statement Thursday.

The county tested at least 127 people for COVID-19 Thursday at the Northwest Health Department location at 2845 Beatties Ford Road. Mecklenburg will hold another testing event there Friday from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m.

The county first warned of the cluster on Saturday, Oct. 17, nearly a week after convocation events at the church ended. At the time, Mecklenburg officials said nine confirmed cases of the coronavirus had been linked to the church’s events from Oct. 10 and 11.

Since then, that number has quickly grown.

Washington has said he believes at least 1,000 people attended events at the church Oct. 4-11, based on videos he saw.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 23, 2020, 07:58:06 AM

Interesting stuff on how Vermont has effectively contained COVID-19, including having zero coronavirus-related deaths in 2+ months:

The coronavirus is spreading more rapidly in rural areas of the U.S. than in urban areas. But one rural state continues to do a fabulous job keeping the virus away: Vermont.

(https://ecp.yusercontent.com/mail?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic01.nyt.com%2Fimages%2F2020%2F10%2F23%2Fmultimedia%2F23-MORNING-subSTATECASES%2F23-MORNING-subSTATECASES-articleLarge.png&t=1603455994&ymreqid=3c8d0d78-3338-e941-1c0b-0404af019500&sig=L8m8i_z.GUG9SylovHFBmQ--~D)

The starkest sign of Vermont’s success is that it has not recorded a single Covid-19 death in more than two months.

Vermont is succeeding partly because it has not allowed the virus to become a partisan issue. The Republican governor, Phil Scott — unlike many other Republican politicians around the country — has consistently told people to take the virus seriously. “He started wearing a mask early in the pandemic and has stood at the back of the room in many of the state’s coronavirus briefings, letting Dr. Mark Levine, Vermont’s answer to Dr. Anthony Fauci, dominate proceedings,” Bill McKibben, a Vermont resident, wrote in The New Yorker.

Vermont also benefits from having a high degree of social trust among its residents, as Maria Sacchetti explained in The Washington Post. And Vermont has two strong local media organizations — VTDigger and Seven Days — that keep residents informed and that both took an intriguing step early in the pandemic, McKibben notes: They shut down their comments sections, to prevent misinformation from spreading.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on October 23, 2020, 08:25:52 AM

Quote from: MU82 on October 23, 2020, 07:58:06 AM

Interesting stuff on how Vermont has effectively contained COVID-19, including having zero coronavirus-related deaths in 2+ months:

The coronavirus is spreading more rapidly in rural areas of the U.S. than in urban areas. But one rural state continues to do a fabulous job keeping the virus away: Vermont.

(https://ecp.yusercontent.com/mail?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic01.nyt.com%2Fimages%2F2020%2F10%2F23%2Fmultimedia%2F23-MORNING-subSTATECASES%2F23-MORNING-subSTATECASES-articleLarge.png&t=1603455994&ymreqid=3c8d0d78-3338-e941-1c0b-0404af019500&sig=L8m8i_z.GUG9SylovHFBmQ--~D)

The starkest sign of Vermont’s success is that it has not recorded a single Covid-19 death in more than two months.

Vermont is succeeding partly because it has not allowed the virus to become a partisan issue. The Republican governor, Phil Scott — unlike many other Republican politicians around the country — has consistently told people to take the virus seriously. “He started wearing a mask early in the pandemic and has stood at the back of the room in many of the state’s coronavirus briefings, letting Dr. Mark Levine, Vermont’s answer to Dr. Anthony Fauci, dominate proceedings,” Bill McKibben, a Vermont resident, wrote in The New Yorker.

Vermont also benefits from having a high degree of social trust among its residents, as Maria Sacchetti explained in The Washington Post. And Vermont has two strong local media organizations — VTDigger and Seven Days — that keep residents informed and that both took an intriguing step early in the pandemic, McKibben notes: They shut down their comments sections, to prevent misinformation from spreading.

I have a friend who sent his son to school in Vermont in August and they had to quarantine two weeks before arrival or after arrival

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on October 23, 2020, 08:28:51 AM

Quote from: MU82 on October 23, 2020, 07:58:06 AM

Vermont is succeeding partly because it has not allowed the virus to become a partisan issue. The Republican governor, Phil Scott — unlike many other Republican politicians around the country — has consistently told people to take the virus seriously. “He started wearing a mask early in the pandemic and has stood at the back of the room in many of the state’s coronavirus briefings, letting Dr. Mark Levine, Vermont’s answer to Dr. Anthony Fauci, dominate proceedings,” Bill McKibben, a Vermont resident, wrote in The New Yorker.

Vermont also benefits from having a high degree of social trust among its residents, as Maria Sacchetti explained in The Washington Post. And Vermont has two strong local media organizations — VTDigger and Seven Days — that keep residents informed and that both took an intriguing step early in the pandemic, McKibben notes: They shut down their comments sections, to prevent misinformation from spreading.[/i]

I actually don't like these articles because they confuse concepts.  Yes the virus response is not partisan there, but that is an output and not a fundamental lens that needs to be applied to everything.

I wish instead the headline was "Vermont takes virus seriously"
- Early Masking
- Medical Led Public Health Response
- Consistent Information & clear communication with actions to prevent mis-information
- Leadership that cares & models desired behavior
- High social trust and compliance

These things have nothing to do with politics...it just that since people are in denial or for other reasons, many places just don't want to accept they have to take this seriously.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 23, 2020, 10:38:52 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on October 23, 2020, 08:28:51 AM

I actually don't like these articles because they confuse concepts.  Yes the virus response is not partisan there, but that is an output and not a fundamental lens that needs to be applied to everything.

I wish instead the headline was "Vermont takes virus seriously"
- Early Masking
- Medical Led Public Health Response
- Consistent Information & clear communication with actions to prevent mis-information
- Leadership that cares & models desired behavior
- High social trust and compliance

These things have nothing to do with politics...it just that since people are in denial or for other reasons, many places just don't want to accept they have to take this seriously.

You are right, those concepts are not inherently political. Unfortunately, the current administration has made them political, and many republicans around the country have followed along. The point of the article as I see it is that republicans in VT have not followed along.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 23, 2020, 11:02:46 AM

And now the third peak of officially higher than the previous high in the US, and still rising....

Coronavirus case increase sets new U.S. record, rising to over 77K in one day

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/coronavirus-case-increase-sets-new-u-s-record-rising-over-n1244490

The U.S. set a record Thursday as the number of new coronavirus cases rose to over 77,000, topping the previous record in July.

Nationwide, 77,640 new cases were reported for the day, up from the previous record of 75,723 on July 29, according to the latest tally compiled by NBC News.

The record-breaking daily tally comes as the total number of coronavirus cases in the country has reached nearly 8.5 million, with 224,280 deaths. There were 921 coronavirus-related deaths reported on Thursday.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 23, 2020, 11:11:49 AM

It was brought up in the debate last night that models show if we are not better at mask compliance we can expect 200k more deaths between now and end of year.

Followed up with the statement we can cut that in half and save 100K lives if everyone wears a mask.  If the 7 day national avg holds steady we will have saved more then the 100k estimate.  That tells me we, as a country, are doing what we can when it comes to masks or am I interrupting that wrong?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 23, 2020, 11:15:14 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on October 23, 2020, 11:11:49 AM

It was brought up in the debate last night that models show if we are not better at mask compliance we can expect 200k more deaths between now and end of year.

Followed up with the statement we can cut that in half and save 100K lives if everyone wears a mask.  If the 7 day national avg holds steady we will have saved more then the 100k estimate.  That tells me we, as a country, are doing what we can when it comes to masks or am I interrupting that wrong?

A universal mask mandate would save lives. We as a country have not implemented a universal mask mandate.

Ergo, we have NOT done everything we can when it comes to masks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 23, 2020, 11:44:54 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on October 23, 2020, 11:15:14 AM

A universal mask mandate would save lives. We as a country have not implemented a universal mask mandate.

Ergo, we have NOT done everything we can when it comes to masks.

Ok, that makes sense now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on October 23, 2020, 12:24:47 PM

Quote from: MU82 on October 23, 2020, 07:58:06 AM

Interesting stuff on how Vermont has effectively contained COVID-19, including having zero coronavirus-related deaths in 2+ months:

The coronavirus is spreading more rapidly in rural areas of the U.S. than in urban areas. But one rural state continues to do a fabulous job keeping the virus away: Vermont.

(https://ecp.yusercontent.com/mail?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic01.nyt.com%2Fimages%2F2020%2F10%2F23%2Fmultimedia%2F23-MORNING-subSTATECASES%2F23-MORNING-subSTATECASES-articleLarge.png&t=1603455994&ymreqid=3c8d0d78-3338-e941-1c0b-0404af019500&sig=L8m8i_z.GUG9SylovHFBmQ--~D)

The starkest sign of Vermont’s success is that it has not recorded a single Covid-19 death in more than two months.

Vermont is succeeding partly because it has not allowed the virus to become a partisan issue. The Republican governor, Phil Scott — unlike many other Republican politicians around the country — has consistently told people to take the virus seriously. “He started wearing a mask early in the pandemic and has stood at the back of the room in many of the state’s coronavirus briefings, letting Dr. Mark Levine, Vermont’s answer to Dr. Anthony Fauci, dominate proceedings,” Bill McKibben, a Vermont resident, wrote in The New Yorker.

Vermont also benefits from having a high degree of social trust among its residents, as Maria Sacchetti explained in The Washington Post. And Vermont has two strong local media organizations — VTDigger and Seven Days — that keep residents informed and that both took an intriguing step early in the pandemic, McKibben notes: They shut down their comments sections, to prevent misinformation from spreading.

Plenty of people in Connecticut have second houses in Vermont.  What I hear from these people is they even make people from Connecticut quarantine if you rthere more than 24 hours.  And they get antsy when they see out of state plates.

Coincidently, Vermont was the most moved-to state since the pandemic began per United Van Lines. 

From March to August 2020, the top outbound states, defined by the highest percentages of moves where COVID was a contributing factor in leaving the state, were the following:
1. Washington, D.C.
2. New York
3. Nevada
4. Oregon
5. Delaware
6. California
7. Minnesota
8. Massachusetts
9. Florida
10. Washington

The top inbound states — those where COVID was a contributing factor in choosing to migrate to the state — were:
1. Vermont
2. North Dakota
3. Connecticut
4. Montana
5. Michigan
6. Arkansas
7. Oregon
8. Massachusetts
9. Ohio
10. Utah
UniGroup, parent company of United Van Lines, continuously fields a post-move survey with customers within five days following their move. The findings shared here are drawn from data collected among more than 6,000 United Van Lines and Mayflower customers who moved between March 1 – August 31, 2020.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on October 23, 2020, 12:33:15 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on October 23, 2020, 11:02:46 AM

And now the third peak of officially higher than the previous high in the US, and still rising....

Coronavirus case increase sets new U.S. record, rising to over 77K in one day

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/coronavirus-case-increase-sets-new-u-s-record-rising-over-n1244490

The U.S. set a record Thursday as the number of new coronavirus cases rose to over 77,000, topping the previous record in July.

Nationwide, 77,640 new cases were reported for the day, up from the previous record of 75,723 on July 29, according to the latest tally compiled by NBC News.

The record-breaking daily tally comes as the total number of coronavirus cases in the country has reached nearly 8.5 million, with 224,280 deaths. There were 921 coronavirus-related deaths reported on Thursday.

We’re rounding the corner, man, we’re rounding the corner.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on October 23, 2020, 12:41:42 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on October 23, 2020, 10:38:52 AM

You are right, those concepts are not inherently political. Unfortunately, the current administration has made them political, and many republicans around the country have followed along. The point of the article as I see it is that republicans in VT have not followed along.

Yes, that's the sad irony in this. If Trump had acted appropriately both Republican and Democratic Governors would have followed suit and we'd likely have the virus under control and the economy booming and Trump would be coasting to reelection.

Instead the U.S. is a replay of Trump University, Trump airlines, the New Jersey Generals, Trump casinos, Trump ties, Trump water, and Trump steaks rolled into one. #ETTD

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 23, 2020, 02:47:13 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on October 23, 2020, 12:24:47 PM

Plenty of people in Connecticut have second houses in Vermont.  What I hear from these people is they even make people from Connecticut quarantine if you rthere more than 24 hours.  And they get antsy when they see out of state plates.

Coincidently, Vermont was the most moved-to state since the pandemic began per United Van Lines. 

From March to August 2020, the top outbound states, defined by the highest percentages of moves where COVID was a contributing factor in leaving the state, were the following:
1. Washington, D.C.
2. New York
3. Nevada
4. Oregon
5. Delaware
6. California
7. Minnesota
8. Massachusetts
9. Florida
10. Washington

The top inbound states — those where COVID was a contributing factor in choosing to migrate to the state — were:
1. Vermont
2. North Dakota
3. Connecticut
4. Montana
5. Michigan
6. Arkansas
7. Oregon
8. Massachusetts
9. Ohio
10. Utah
UniGroup, parent company of United Van Lines, continuously fields a post-move survey with customers within five days following their move. The findings shared here are drawn from data collected among more than 6,000 United Van Lines and Mayflower customers who moved between March 1 – August 31, 2020.

So what you're sayin' is that Oregon and Massachusetts don't know whether they're comin' or goin'!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on October 23, 2020, 02:49:24 PM

And now some of the states people moved to are experiencing spikes and Lviv positivity rates.....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 23, 2020, 03:15:14 PM

Quote from: MU82 on October 23, 2020, 02:47:13 PM

So what you're sayin' is that Oregon and Massachusetts don't know whether they're comin' or goin'!!

The people who left Oregon are probably regretting that decision. Their departure was probably fueled by the fact that the first major US outbreak was just up the road in Seattle...but in fact Oregon's response has been phenomenal. To date, it is 4th lowest in total incidence with only 96/1M residents.

Heck, even Washington has done an outstanding job since the initial outbreak. Overall, they have the 7th lowest total incidence, at 132/1M residents. To draw a comparison that people here can relate to, Wisconsin's incidence is currently at 327/1M residents.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 23, 2020, 03:30:05 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on October 23, 2020, 03:15:14 PM

The people who left Oregon are probably regretting that decision. Their departure was probably fueled by the fact that the first major US outbreak was just up the road in Seattle...but in fact Oregon's response has been phenomenal. To date, it is 4th lowest in total incidence with only 96/1M residents.

Heck, even Washington has done an outstanding job since the initial outbreak. Overall, they have the 7th lowest total incidence, at 132/1M residents. To draw a comparison that people here can relate to, Wisconsin's incidence is currently at 327/1M residents.

Traveling to Washington soon ... if they'll have North Carolinians like me!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 23, 2020, 03:46:33 PM

Just got my weekly Costco email and saw that they are selling PCR-based saliva Covid testing kits. For any of you Costco members who haven't been able to get a test....

https://www.costco.com/covid-19-saliva-pcr-test-kit%2c-redeemed-by-azova.product.100706742.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on October 23, 2020, 04:31:36 PM

Quote from: MU82 on October 23, 2020, 02:47:13 PM

So what you're sayin' is that Oregon and Massachusetts don't know whether they're comin' or goin'!!

I know, right.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 23, 2020, 07:58:05 PM

A couple days ago, North Dakota‘s surge overwhelmed contact tracers to the point where the state is now asking people who test positive to do the contact tracing themselves.

https://www.foxnews.com/health/coronavirus-surge-north-dakota-contact-tracing-residents

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 24, 2020, 05:33:35 AM

It's not bad enough that this president's horrific handling of the coronavirus pandemic has contributed to nearly 225K dead Americans on his watch, millions of unemployed Americans on his watch and hundreds of thousands of permanently shuttered American businesses on his watch.

He now is willingly sacrificing American lives in his reckless, desperate, narcissistic pursuit of a second term by insisting upon going against his own administration's guidelines to hold one super-spreader rally after another -- even as COVID-19 has picked up steam again in America.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2020/10/22/trumps-campaign-made-stops-nationwide-then-coronavirus-cases-surged/3679534001/

Everywhere he holds one of these things -- totally oblivious to the fact that there again are daily counts of tens of thousands of cases and 1,000+ deaths -- he leaves a wake of COVID-19 cases.

Which shortly thereafter results in a wake of hospitalizations.

Which shortly thereafter leaves a wake of ... well ... wakes.

He's a regular effen Donnie Covidseed.

He just held a yuuuge, unmasked, super-spreader rally at The Villages. Yep, the largest senior community in the United States. This won't result in any deaths at all.

What a shameful chapter in U.S. history.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on October 24, 2020, 08:06:59 AM

A billboard outside the Waukesha airport.

(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2020/10/24/PMJS/7eff9c44-52ac-411c-a2d3-d7579379ee58-trump_covid_1.png?width=660&height=436&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on October 24, 2020, 08:58:40 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on October 24, 2020, 08:06:59 AM

A billboard outside the Waukesha airport.

(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2020/10/24/PMJS/7eff9c44-52ac-411c-a2d3-d7579379ee58-trump_covid_1.png?width=660&height=436&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp)

Typhoid Donny.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on October 25, 2020, 08:56:00 AM

One year ago this weekend,

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1187829299207954437?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 25, 2020, 11:33:53 AM

Quote from: Jockey on October 24, 2020, 08:58:40 AM

Typhoid Donny.

That's hilarious.

I call him Donnie Covidseed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on October 25, 2020, 11:39:27 AM

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/25/politics/mark-meadows-controlling-coronavirus-pandemic-cnntv/index.html

White House pandemic response: Whatever.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on October 25, 2020, 11:40:14 AM

Quote from: MU82 on October 25, 2020, 11:33:53 AM

That's hilarious.

I call him Donnie Covidseed.

#Covidiot

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on October 25, 2020, 11:51:14 AM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on October 25, 2020, 11:39:27 AM

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/25/politics/mark-meadows-controlling-coronavirus-pandemic-cnntv/index.html

White House pandemic response: Whatever.

I don’t believe in this strategy, but it would be one.  The downside is that it’s not apparent we have the PPE or the wherewithal to ‘protect the vulnerable’ required to successfully execute this plan.  So just one more spin on the true strategy develop a vaccine and hope for the best. 

When a guy like Gottleib who is not hostile to administration tweets this, I get worried.

https://twitter.com/scottgottliebmd/status/1319788915327381505?s=21
 (https://twitter.com/scottgottliebmd/status/1319788915327381505?s=21)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 25, 2020, 01:09:38 PM

It’s at least the 3rd time Trump and/or his people have said they’ve all out given up on even trying.

In a twist this time, Meadows didn’t proclaim victory as he gave up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on October 25, 2020, 01:27:07 PM

If you want to see how policy (masks) and behavior impacts COVID transmission this is a nice data example.

https://twitter.com/FelderFerdinand/status/1319978974928306176

You can essentially mark transitions in exponential thread by looking 14-days forward from any major decisions. In Switzerland, the most recent factor...winter is coming and outdoor activities move indoors.

Will that mean more European lockdowns, will the US impose partial lockdowns?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 25, 2020, 03:08:12 PM

Quote from: forgetful on October 25, 2020, 01:27:07 PM

Will that mean more European lockdowns, will the US impose partial lockdowns?

Spain imposed a curfew beginning at 11pm tonight. I suspect more stringent restrictions are coming.

IMHO, we will begin to see partial/targeted lockdowns in the US shortly after next Tuesday.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on October 25, 2020, 03:46:17 PM

I think the limbo between November 3 and January 20 will not include lockdowns.   If there is a limbo.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 25, 2020, 04:03:13 PM

Quote from: tower912 on October 25, 2020, 03:46:17 PM

I think the limbo between November 3 and January 20 will not include lockdowns.   If there is a limbo.

I’m not so sure. Trump will criticize any closures whether he’s in, out or in limbo.

But regardless of Trump’s ranting and even if the presidential election is in limbo, state races will likely be decided in November. Since the lockdowns have been imposed on a state by state (or regional) level, officials will likely feel secure enough post-election to take appropriate action, regardless of the presidential outcome.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on October 25, 2020, 04:21:50 PM

We won’t see lockdowns or curfews. The public doesn’t want them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 25, 2020, 04:46:54 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on October 25, 2020, 04:21:50 PM

We won’t see lockdowns or curfews. The public doesn’t want them.

I don’t think we will see large-scale ones like we saw this spring, but I do think we will see partial or targeted lockdowns in areas that are seeing dramatic increases. People won’t want them, but they will likely accept them if the rates are rising quickly enough.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on October 25, 2020, 06:33:01 PM

If anyone ever wondered why humidity matters for disease transmission, here is a very simple thread illustrating.

https://twitter.com/virusesimmunity/status/1320430656481120256?s=21 (https://twitter.com/virusesimmunity/status/1320430656481120256?s=21)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on October 25, 2020, 08:13:17 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on October 25, 2020, 06:33:01 PM

If anyone ever wondered why humidity matters for disease transmission, here is a very simple thread illustrating.

https://twitter.com/virusesimmunity/status/1320430656481120256?s=21 (https://twitter.com/virusesimmunity/status/1320430656481120256?s=21)

So humid Florida is good. At least outdoors. Indoors with AC, I guess, not so much.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on October 26, 2020, 07:48:04 AM

This is interesting.  The paper finds that COVID may be the new leading cause of death in 25-44 y/o’s in parts of the US.  Overtaking accidental opioid overdose. 

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.21.20217174v1 (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.21.20217174v1)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 26, 2020, 09:15:52 AM

The Fox News president and several anchors were advised to quarantine after possible virus exposure.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/10/26/world/covid-19-coronavirus-updates?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage#the-fox-news-president-and-several-anchors-were-advised-to-quarantine-after-possible-virus-exposure

The president of Fox News and several of the network’s top anchors have been advised to quarantine after being exposed to someone on a private flight who later tested positive for the coronavirus, two people with direct knowledge of the situation said on Sunday.

The infected person was on a charter flight to New York from Nashville with a group of network executives, personalities and other staff members who attended the presidential debate on Thursday, according to the people, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal network matters.

Everyone on board the plane has been told to get tested and quarantine. It was unclear whether more than one person had tested positive.

------------------

Wonder how many were wearing masks, and how many wear masks regularly in public.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 26, 2020, 12:31:55 PM

Global pandemic hits home in the West Virginia mountains

https://apnews.com/article/pandemics-virus-outbreak-football-west-virginia-2a69c2e79d3772e5018c6badacaaf315

“People said it wasn’t real,” said Victoria Gains, a librarian in the county seat of West Union, which has a population of about 800. “You know it is real when it’s in Doddridge County.”

From the Dakotas to Kansas to West Virginia, rural America is now seeing coronavirus cases rising again. Hundreds of counties with fewer than 10,000 residents have experienced a surge in the past 14 days, according to data from Johns Hopkins University.

----------

The only place to hide is behind a mask....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 26, 2020, 01:01:28 PM

Utah hospitals discussing plan to ration ICU care with governor as coronavirus cases surge in the state

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/522707-utah-hospitals-plan-on-rationing-care-as-coronavirus-cases-surge-in-the

Hospitals in Utah could soon be forced to begin prioritizing younger COVID-19 patients over older ones in some cases amid a surging rate of hospitalizations from the virus in the state, according to a plan presented to Utah's governor on Thursday.

Hospital administrators in the state told Gov. Gary Herbert (R) that they could ask him to approve a plan in the coming weeks that would take drastic steps to reduce intensive care unit (ICU) admissions in the event of hospital ICUs being overwhelmed, which they said was a serious possibility in the days ahead.

A state official told The Hill that the specifics of the plan were not presented to Herbert, but that he was advised that hospitals would likely have to enact a plan to deal with at-capacity ICUs in the coming weeks.

If ICUs are nearing capacity, patients who are not seen to be improving even with intensive care will be asked to consider moving to a regular hospital bed. Doctors will also be asked to clearly communicate with patients about do-not-resuscitate orders.

-----------------

It did not have to come to this....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on October 26, 2020, 02:03:57 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on October 26, 2020, 01:01:28 PM

Utah hospitals discussing plan to ration ICU care with governor as coronavirus cases surge in the state

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/522707-utah-hospitals-plan-on-rationing-care-as-coronavirus-cases-surge-in-the

Hospitals in Utah could soon be forced to begin prioritizing younger COVID-19 patients over older ones in some cases amid a surging rate of hospitalizations from the virus in the state, according to a plan presented to Utah's governor on Thursday.

Hospital administrators in the state told Gov. Gary Herbert (R) that they could ask him to approve a plan in the coming weeks that would take drastic steps to reduce intensive care unit (ICU) admissions in the event of hospital ICUs being overwhelmed, which they said was a serious possibility in the days ahead.

A state official told The Hill that the specifics of the plan were not presented to Herbert, but that he was advised that hospitals would likely have to enact a plan to deal with at-capacity ICUs in the coming weeks.

If ICUs are nearing capacity, patients who are not seen to be improving even with intensive care will be asked to consider moving to a regular hospital bed. Doctors will also be asked to clearly communicate with patients about do-not-resuscitate orders.

-----------------

It did not have to come to this....

This is the original fear with this virus. It wasn't death toll or lasting damage, if you recall it was the likelihood that it'd force hospitals to start making judgement calls on who can we save based on availability of beds and how that could cripple us.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on October 26, 2020, 02:09:08 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on October 26, 2020, 02:03:57 PM

This is the original fear with this virus. It wasn't death toll or lasting damage, if you recall it was the likelihood that it'd force hospitals to start making judgement calls on who can we save based on availability of beds and how that could cripple us.

Well, we've finally got our death panels.
Thanks, Obama!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 26, 2020, 02:11:21 PM

POTUS, who has been railing about "censorship" by social media companies, twitted out this today:

“We have made tremendous progress with the China Virus, but the Fake News refuses to talk about it this close to the Election. COVID, COVID, COVID is being used by them, in total coordination, in order to change our great early election numbers. Should be an election law violation!”

That's right. The president of the United States believes it should be illegal for the media to cover the most deadly pandemic in more than a century.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on October 26, 2020, 06:15:09 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on October 26, 2020, 02:03:57 PM

This is the original fear with this virus. It wasn't death toll or lasting damage, if you recall it was the likelihood that it'd force hospitals to start making judgement calls on who can we save based on availability of beds and how that could cripple us.

But we are rounding the corner!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on October 26, 2020, 06:16:40 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on October 26, 2020, 02:03:57 PM

This is the original fear with this virus. It wasn't death toll or lasting damage, if you recall it was the likelihood that it'd force hospitals to start making judgement calls on who can we save based on availability of beds and how that could cripple us.

Flatten the curve, eh?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on October 26, 2020, 07:35:36 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on October 26, 2020, 06:16:40 PM

Flatten the curve, eh?

We did.

But we didn't/don't have the patience for the needed long-term commitment. And we didn't/don't have the leadership to push us in that direction.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on October 26, 2020, 10:04:13 PM

Fox News has COVID problems.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/fox-news-covid-infection-sends-election-coverage-plans-into-chaos

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 26, 2020, 11:05:50 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on October 26, 2020, 10:04:13 PM

Fox News has COVID problems.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/fox-news-covid-infection-sends-election-coverage-plans-into-chaos

Ignore. Call it a hoax. Give a never-ending soapbox to a powerful tweeter who claims it’s a hoax. Unsurprising result.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on October 27, 2020, 10:22:17 AM

PPE:

https://twitter.com/Z_Everson/status/1317157555035082752?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on October 27, 2020, 03:35:32 PM

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Trump-Administration-ST-Highlights-2017-2020.pdf


Never mind.    The White House has declared victory over COVID.    Mea Culpa.     Shut the thread down.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 27, 2020, 04:00:13 PM

Quote from: tower912 on October 27, 2020, 03:35:32 PM

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Trump-Administration-ST-Highlights-2017-2020.pdf

Never mind.    The White House has declared victory over COVID.    Mea Culpa.     Shut the thread down.

Page iv was the only one worth reading....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on October 27, 2020, 05:04:51 PM

Quote from: tower912 on October 27, 2020, 03:35:32 PM

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Trump-Administration-ST-Highlights-2017-2020.pdf


Never mind.    The White House has declared victory over COVID.    Mea Culpa.     Shut the thread down.

Kinda Reminiscent of some guy in a smurf suit declaring that the Iraq war was over.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 28, 2020, 08:48:56 AM

Just a couple of days ago, I predicted possible targeted lockdowns as the virus surges. Several people disagreed that we'd see anything before January 20. But...

N.J’s Largest City Shuts Down Again as Virus Cases Surge

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/28/nyregion/newark-coronavirus-curfew.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

It has been barely seven months since Newark, New Jersey’s largest city and a short ride from New York by train or car, began suffering disproportionate losses when the pandemic first gripped the region in the spring.

And it is here that the state is getting a glimpse of what could lie ahead this fall and winter as New Jersey struggles to control an alarming uptick in new virus cases statewide.

On Tuesday at 8 p.m., the state’s first new shutdown order since March took hold in the city by order of the mayor, Ras J. Baraka, a Democrat.

------------------

Other local restrictions I found:

* Indoor dining will be banned in Chicago as of 8 pm Friday: https://abc7chicago.com/covid-19-restrictions-chicago-indoor-dining-restaurants/7414934/

* Denver is moving back to Level 3 "Safer at Home' restrictions: https://denver.cbslocal.com/2020/10/27/denver-safer-home-level-3-coronavirus-cases-rise/

I'll admit these new restrictions are being imposed a few days sooner than I expected; I thought they'd wait until after Nov. 3. Still, I suspect this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on October 28, 2020, 10:58:35 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on October 28, 2020, 08:48:56 AM

Just a couple of days ago, I predicted possible targeted lockdowns as the virus surges. Several people disagreed that we'd see anything before January 20. But...

N.J’s Largest City Shuts Down Again as Virus Cases Surge

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/28/nyregion/newark-coronavirus-curfew.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

It has been barely seven months since Newark, New Jersey’s largest city and a short ride from New York by train or car, began suffering disproportionate losses when the pandemic first gripped the region in the spring.

And it is here that the state is getting a glimpse of what could lie ahead this fall and winter as New Jersey struggles to control an alarming uptick in new virus cases statewide.

On Tuesday at 8 p.m., the state’s first new shutdown order since March took hold in the city by order of the mayor, Ras J. Baraka, a Democrat.

------------------

Other local restrictions I found:

* Indoor dining will be banned in Chicago as of 8 pm Friday: https://abc7chicago.com/covid-19-restrictions-chicago-indoor-dining-restaurants/7414934/

* Denver is moving back to Level 3 "Safer at Home' restrictions: https://denver.cbslocal.com/2020/10/27/denver-safer-home-level-3-coronavirus-cases-rise/

I'll admit these new restrictions are being imposed a few days sooner than I expected; I thought they'd wait until after Nov. 3. Still, I suspect this is just the tip of the iceberg.

I was wondering if/when this would happen. I figured we were a week or two away from it, largely because Wisconsin, which won't do it, is the main state that needs to.

In regards to Wisconsin, this is the time of year "snow birds" fly south for the winter. Wonder how many of them will seed new infections in other states.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on October 28, 2020, 11:34:12 AM

President Donald Trump's son-in-law and senior adviser Jared Kushner boasted in mid-April about how the President had cut out the doctors and scientists advising him on the unfolding coronavirus pandemic, comments that came as more than 40,000 Americans already had died from the virus, which was ravaging New York City.
In a taped interview on April 18, Kushner told legendary journalist Bob Woodward that Trump was "getting the country back from the doctors" in what he called a "negotiated settlement." Kushner also proclaimed that the US was moving swiftly through the "panic phase" and "pain phase" of the pandemic and that the country was at the "beginning of the comeback phase."
"That doesn't mean there's not still a lot of pain and there won't be pain for a while, but that basically was, we've now put out rules to get back to work," Kushner said. "Trump's now back in charge. It's not the doctors."

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/28/politics/woodward-kushner-coronavirus-doctors/index.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on October 28, 2020, 11:44:25 AM

Isn't Kushner the same genius who just repeated the rights talking points about blacks not being successful because they are listless and lazy?

Methinks using racist language to convince blacks to vote for a racist is not a plan with a chance for success.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on October 28, 2020, 11:48:19 AM

Not so good news for herd immunity

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54696873

Covid may actually be like a super flu where a vaccine will be needed every year or even more often.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on October 28, 2020, 12:15:15 PM

Quote from: Jockey on October 28, 2020, 11:48:19 AM

Not so good news for herd immunity

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54696873

Covid may actually be like a super flu where a vaccine will be needed every year or even more often.

Based on virologists takes, this is a really misleading article/headline.  Antibodies always fall off in the timeframe.  The question for immunity is how quickly and for how long do they come back if you are exposed to the virus. 

I don’t know that there is any study yet understanding the durability against reinfection. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 28, 2020, 12:18:48 PM

White House could have traced and contained its COVID-19 outbreak stemming from the Barrett super-spreader event. It chose not to.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/10/28/trump-omaha-supporters-stuck-cold/?fbclid=IwAR1DKONsQF0Mz5zKx95OfXI93QFnyL86TosY_Mv3_Oo-in7HFdXB4cMCdMY

When he called the White House about a coronavirus outbreak, the Indiana doctor expected to get some help, not a “head in the sand approach.”

It was Oct. 1, and Mark Fox, a county public health officer in South Bend, had just learned that the University of Notre Dame’s president, the Rev. John I. Jenkins, had tested positive for the novel coronavirus after attending a Rose Garden ceremony days earlier in honor of Supreme Court nominee Amy Coney Barrett. It seemed likely that either Jenkins had taken the virus to the White House, potentially infecting others there, or he had become infected in Washington and brought the virus home to South Bend.

There are long-standing protocols for investigating the spread of a virus: contact tracing, or interviewing infected people about their recent interactions and advising those exposed that they should get tested. There’s also a more cutting-edge technology that can map the spread of a virus by tracking tiny changes in its genetic code. The Trump administration did not effectively deploy either technique in response to what Anthony S. Fauci, the nation’s top infectious-disease specialist, has called a “superspreader event” at the White House, leaving not just the president and his family and staff at risk, but also the hundreds of people who were potentially exposed.

They simply do not care who gets sick or who dies from a virus that their leader called "deadly stuff" and "more deadly than even your strenuous flus."

They. Don't. Care.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on October 28, 2020, 12:25:55 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on October 28, 2020, 12:15:15 PM

Based on virologists takes, this is a really misleading article/headline.  Antibodies always fall off in the timeframe.  The question for immunity is how quickly and for how long do they come back if you are exposed to the virus. 

I don’t know that there is any study yet understanding the durability against reinfection.

From what we know about other coronaviruses, it was always expected that we'd see waning immunity after 6-months to a year.

The goal would be to be able to vaccinate enough people that there isn't the possibility for it to get a foothold and spread further. With proper immunization, we can eradicate this within 1-2 years even with waning immunity.

That in part is because coronaviruses do not mutate rapidly enough to overcome a vaccine.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Billy Hoyle on October 28, 2020, 12:26:47 PM

Quote from: MU82 on October 28, 2020, 12:18:48 PM

White House could have traced and contained its COVID-19 outbreak stemming from the Barrett super-spreader event. It chose not to.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/10/28/trump-omaha-supporters-stuck-cold/?fbclid=IwAR1DKONsQF0Mz5zKx95OfXI93QFnyL86TosY_Mv3_Oo-in7HFdXB4cMCdMY

When he called the White House about a coronavirus outbreak, the Indiana doctor expected to get some help, not a “head in the sand approach.”

It was Oct. 1, and Mark Fox, a county public health officer in South Bend, had just learned that the University of Notre Dame’s president, the Rev. John I. Jenkins, had tested positive for the novel coronavirus after attending a Rose Garden ceremony days earlier in honor of Supreme Court nominee Amy Coney Barrett. It seemed likely that either Jenkins had taken the virus to the White House, potentially infecting others there, or he had become infected in Washington and brought the virus home to South Bend.

There are long-standing protocols for investigating the spread of a virus: contact tracing, or interviewing infected people about their recent interactions and advising those exposed that they should get tested. There’s also a more cutting-edge technology that can map the spread of a virus by tracking tiny changes in its genetic code. The Trump administration did not effectively deploy either technique in response to what Anthony S. Fauci, the nation’s top infectious-disease specialist, has called a “superspreader event” at the White House, leaving not just the president and his family and staff at risk, but also the hundreds of people who were potentially exposed.

They simply do not care who gets sick or who dies from a virus that their leader called "deadly stuff" and "more deadly than even your strenuous flus."

They. Don't. Care.

What do you expect when cases are spiking to record levels and this administration has put out a document declaring the pandemic "over."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on October 28, 2020, 12:58:45 PM

Well, despite the epic failure that that Covid "response" has been on containing covid-19 infections and deaths, we can hang our hat on the fact that *so far* we've virtually eliminated deaths from the flu (*in the early flu season*)

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm

I mean, that's something.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on October 28, 2020, 06:57:12 PM

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-germany-to-enter-four-week-lockdown-from-november-chancellor-merkel-confirms-12117056

National lockdowns in France and Germany.

• A 'stay at home' order except to exercise for one hour a day, seek medical care or buy essential goods
• Shutting restaurants and bars
• Non-essential shops to close
• A travel ban between regions
• Closing some external borders
• Universities moving to online teaching

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on October 28, 2020, 09:58:27 PM

Quote from: Skatastrophy on October 28, 2020, 06:57:12 PM

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-germany-to-enter-four-week-lockdown-from-november-chancellor-merkel-confirms-12117056

National lockdowns in France and Germany.

• A 'stay at home' order except to exercise for one hour a day, seek medical care or buy essential goods
• Shutting restaurants and bars
• Non-essential shops to close
• A travel ban between regions
• Closing some external borders
• Universities moving to online teaching

Trump's fault, aina.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on October 29, 2020, 05:56:07 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on October 28, 2020, 12:15:15 PM

Based on virologists takes, this is a really misleading article/headline.  Antibodies always fall off in the timeframe.  The question for immunity is how quickly and for how long do they come back if you are exposed to the virus. 

I don’t know that there is any study yet understanding the durability against reinfection.

Here is a thread with a study link that explains the landscape that’s known today

https://twitter.com/michaelmina_lab/status/1321657834090758147?s=21 (https://twitter.com/michaelmina_lab/status/1321657834090758147?s=21)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 29, 2020, 06:54:06 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on October 28, 2020, 09:58:27 PM

Trump's fault, aina.

Nope, but that is what leadership looks like.  It's going to be nice to have some after four years come January.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Lens on October 29, 2020, 08:13:34 AM

I have been re-watching The Roosevelts, the 2014 Ken Burns doc, on PBS lately.  Teddy lamented in his writings that his Presidency was neither challenged by crisis or war.  He recognized how to be considered one of the best POTUS you needed a challenge.  He was quite disappointed he didn't have one to take on.  That is quite contrast to today.  If Trump tackled this head on he would have sailed to 4 more years.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on October 29, 2020, 08:16:52 AM

Quote from: The Lens on October 29, 2020, 08:13:34 AM

I have been re-watching The Roosevelts, the 2014 Ken Burns doc, on PBS lately.  Teddy lamented in his writings that his Presidency was neither challenged by crisis or war.  He recognized how to be considered one of the best POTUS you needed a challenge.  He was quite disappointed he didn't have one to take on.  That is quite contrast to today.  If Trump tackled this head on he would have sailed to 4 more years.   

Agree completely.  And I've been saying that for months.

But it requires too characteristics that he doesn't own - patience and work-ethic. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on October 29, 2020, 08:27:57 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on October 29, 2020, 08:16:52 AM

Agree completely.  And I've been saying that for months.

But it requires too characteristics that he doesn't own - patience and work-ethic.

Some humility too. If even after the beginning he came out and said he was wrong and embraced masks and followed the guidance for reopening, I think he’d be in good shape.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 29, 2020, 08:46:07 AM

Paper from the Journal of Hospital Medicine showing the dramatic decline in Covid death rate from March through August, even when adjusting for risk factors. Demonstrates that, despite the Administration's persistent failures, healthcare workers are doing heroic things to minimize the damage....

https://www.journalofhospitalmedicine.com/jhospmed/article/230561/hospital-medicine/trends-covid-19-risk-adjusted-mortality-rates?channel=327#article-intro

We examined in-hospital mortality or discharge to hospice from March through August 2020, adjusted for demographic and clinical factors, including comorbidities, admission vital signs, and laboratory results. Among 5,121 hospitalizations, adjusted mortality dropped from 25.6% (95% CI, 23.2-28.1) in March to 7.6% (95% CI, 2.5-17.8) in August.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on October 29, 2020, 09:04:24 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on October 29, 2020, 08:46:07 AM

Paper from the Journal of Hospital Medicine showing the dramatic decline in Covid death rate from March through August, even when adjusting for risk factors. Demonstrates that, despite the Administration's persistent failures, healthcare workers are doing heroic things to minimize the damage....

https://www.journalofhospitalmedicine.com/jhospmed/article/230561/hospital-medicine/trends-covid-19-risk-adjusted-mortality-rates?channel=327#article-intro

We examined in-hospital mortality or discharge to hospice from March through August 2020, adjusted for demographic and clinical factors, including comorbidities, admission vital signs, and laboratory results. Among 5,121 hospitalizations, adjusted mortality dropped from 25.6% (95% CI, 23.2-28.1) in March to 7.6% (95% CI, 2.5-17.8) in August.

Hopefully that is mostly due to things we have learned regarding treatment, with minimal role of differences in viral load and clearance due to seasonal differences.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 29, 2020, 09:59:35 AM

Quote from: forgetful on October 29, 2020, 09:04:24 AM

Hopefully that is mostly due to things we have learned regarding treatment, with minimal role of differences in viral load and clearance due to seasonal differences.

Good points -and I totally agree.

I hadn't thought about the seasonality of clearance in reviewing these numbers, but you're right - to the extent it plays a factor in mortality once patients are hospitalized, we would expect it to be reverting to early springtime (lower) levels of clearance as the weather cools.

Should be interesting to see follow-up studies - comparing the July/August mortality to November/December, etc. Fingers crossed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on October 29, 2020, 10:35:57 AM

No testing, no cases! Guess which state?

Atlas push to 'slow the testing down' tracks with dramatic decline in one key state
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/29/politics/atlas-desantis-testing-covid-florida/index.html

Their push to de-emphasize tests coincided with a dramatic drop in testing across Florida, even as the country was careening toward a fall coronavirus surge. A CNN analysis of the Florida state official numbers, aggregated by the Covid Tracking Project, shows that testing dropped off at the end of July and early August, with a peak seven-day average over 90,000 tests per day on July 18. Six weeks later, in early September, the seven-day average dropped by nearly half, with fewer than 48,000 tests per day, and hovered between there and 60,000 during the fall.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 29, 2020, 10:44:07 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on October 29, 2020, 10:35:57 AM

No testing, no cases! Guess which state?

Atlas push to 'slow the testing down' tracks with dramatic decline in one key state
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/29/politics/atlas-desantis-testing-covid-florida/index.html

Their push to de-emphasize tests coincided with a dramatic drop in testing across Florida, even as the country was careening toward a fall coronavirus surge. A CNN analysis of the Florida state official numbers, aggregated by the Covid Tracking Project, shows that testing dropped off at the end of July and early August, with a peak seven-day average over 90,000 tests per day on July 18. Six weeks later, in early September, the seven-day average dropped by nearly half, with fewer than 48,000 tests per day, and hovered between there and 60,000 during the fall.

Same state routinely hid and/or lied about its coronavirus-related data.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on October 29, 2020, 11:04:24 AM

Alright nerds, think about this.

Winter has been a burden in the midwest for centuries. It needs to be stopped. This year we are going to STOP MEASURING THE TEMPERATURE OUTSIDE. The only reason to measure the temperature is to stop people from dying from the cold, so if someone is only *feeling* cold then we shouldn't measure the temperature.

And honestly, stop wearing coats they don't work. Over 95% of people that died from the cold were found wearing coats. They just don't work, so knock it off. Coats make you look like a liberal.

We are going to stop winter in its tracks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on October 29, 2020, 12:11:24 PM

Quote from: Skatastrophy on October 29, 2020, 11:04:24 AM

Alright nerds, think about this.

Winter has been a burden in the midwest for centuries. It needs to be stopped. This year we are going to STOP MEASURING THE TEMPERATURE OUTSIDE. The only reason to measure the temperature is to stop people from dying from the cold, so if someone is only *feeling* cold then we shouldn't measure the temperature.

And honestly, stop wearing coats they don't work. Over 95% of people that died from the cold were found wearing coats. They just don't work, so knock it off. Coats make you look like a liberal.

We are going to stop winter in its tracks.

This is so good

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: SERocks on October 29, 2020, 12:58:56 PM

Quote from: Skatastrophy on October 29, 2020, 11:04:24 AM

Alright nerds, think about this.

Winter has been a burden in the midwest for centuries. It needs to be stopped. This year we are going to STOP MEASURING THE TEMPERATURE OUTSIDE. The only reason to measure the temperature is to stop people from dying from the cold, so if someone is only *feeling* cold then we shouldn't measure the temperature.

And honestly, stop wearing coats they don't work. Over 95% of people that died from the cold were found wearing coats. They just don't work, so knock it off. Coats make you look like a liberal.

We are going to stop winter in its tracks.

When I first read this I thought , wow this is really stupid. 

Then I thought.  Yes.  Yes it is.....  :)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 29, 2020, 01:48:54 PM

Quote from: Skatastrophy on October 29, 2020, 11:04:24 AM

Alright nerds, think about this.

Winter has been a burden in the midwest for centuries. It needs to be stopped. This year we are going to STOP MEASURING THE TEMPERATURE OUTSIDE. The only reason to measure the temperature is to stop people from dying from the cold, so if someone is only *feeling* cold then we shouldn't measure the temperature.

And honestly, stop wearing coats they don't work. Over 95% of people that died from the cold were found wearing coats. They just don't work, so knock it off. Coats make you look like a liberal.

We are going to stop winter in its tracks.

You win the internet today.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on October 29, 2020, 07:27:38 PM

88,000 cases today.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on October 29, 2020, 07:32:02 PM

https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000175-6bc5-d2df-adff-6fdfff5c0000

Time to shut the Covid board down. The pandemic is over!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on October 29, 2020, 08:35:53 PM

This is a cool graphical story/study:

https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-and-a-class-how-the-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 30, 2020, 12:21:04 AM

A study looks at "long-haulers" -- COVID survivors who are now experiencing a variety of medical maladies.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/coronavirus/article246809982.html?ac_cid=DM312405&ac_bid=-1599210424

Among the peculiar and alarming symptoms reported by individuals, who experts call long-haulers, are early signs of Parkinson’s disease, scaly skin rashes and unpleasant tastes in their mouths.

A Centers for Disease Control and Prevention survey between April and June of nearly 300 infected individuals revealed that 35% had not returned to their “usual state of health” two to three weeks after getting testing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 30, 2020, 07:56:13 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on October 29, 2020, 08:35:53 PM

This is a cool graphical story/study:

https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-and-a-class-how-the-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html

What is terribly depressing is that this information is finally being disseminated now that it is nearly winter.  Ventilation systems and windows won't be open with temperatures so low.  And we've had all summer to correct, and probably certify businesses as ventilation compliant... but nope.

Maybe some work on this could be done in the winter, so we can reduce transmission even further.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on October 30, 2020, 08:03:32 AM

china 91,306 cases  4739 deaths...chaaaaaa right!!  they've harvested more kidneys from their "organ donors" than this

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 30, 2020, 08:09:19 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on October 30, 2020, 08:03:32 AM

china 91,306 cases  4739 deaths...chaaaaaa right!!  they've harvested more kidneys from their "organ donors" than this

It's likely more than this, but not as many as you seem to be hoping for.

As if this were some sort of morbid competition between countries.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on October 30, 2020, 08:13:43 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on October 30, 2020, 08:03:32 AM

china 91,306 cases  4739 deaths...chaaaaaa right!!  they've harvested more kidneys from their "organ donors" than this

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1220818115354923009

The biggest hero this country has ever seen seems to think China has been very forthcoming, honest, upfront, and successful at containing the spread of this virus. Not sure why you’d doubt their numbers when our president trusts them over his own intelligence in China telling him this was a big deal.

Heck, he not only thanked China on his own behalf, but on the behalf of all of us. So I’m in! Thank you, President Xi! If you don’t agree with that you must hate America.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 30, 2020, 08:52:14 AM

Quote from: BLM on October 30, 2020, 08:13:43 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1220818115354923009

The biggest hero this country has ever seen seems to think China has been very forthcoming, honest, upfront, and successful at containing the spread of this virus. Not sure why you’d doubt their numbers when our president trusts them over his own intelligence in China telling him this was a big deal.

Heck, he not only thanked China on his own behalf, but on the behalf of all of us. So I’m in! Thank you, President Xi! If you don’t agree with that you must hate America.

Maybe that’s cause the administration was listening to the exPerTs who were saying the same thing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 30, 2020, 09:12:25 AM

Quote from: MU82 on October 30, 2020, 12:21:04 AM

A study looks at "long-haulers" -- COVID survivors who are now experiencing a variety of medical maladies.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/coronavirus/article246809982.html?ac_cid=DM312405&ac_bid=-1599210424

Among the peculiar and alarming symptoms reported by individuals, who experts call long-haulers, are early signs of Parkinson’s disease, scaly skin rashes and unpleasant tastes in their mouths.

A Centers for Disease Control and Prevention survey between April and June of nearly 300 infected individuals revealed that 35% had not returned to their “usual state of health” two to three weeks after getting testing.

It really is sad to see so many people suffering long-term effects. And even though some evidence shows they may eventually go away, we still have no idea if they (or other symptoms) might resurface years or decades later (like chickenpox -> shingles).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on October 30, 2020, 09:14:09 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on October 30, 2020, 08:52:14 AM

Maybe that’s cause the administration was listening to the exPerTs who were saying the same thing.

The one that 45 calls an idiot?  Oh.

So trust (and thank on behalf of the American people) President Xi and the idiot, but don't trust the intelligence officers you have on the ground in China.  Sounds like a leader to me!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 30, 2020, 09:25:10 AM

Quote from: BLM on October 30, 2020, 09:14:09 AM

The one that 45 calls an idiot?  Oh.

So trust (and thank on behalf of the American people) President Xi and the idiot, but don't trust the intelligence officers you have on the ground in China.  Sounds like a leader to me!

Lick your finger and see which way the wind is blowing today to determine if we are listening to experts today or blaming them for being wrong.

What I think is shocking is that if Trump really believes Fauci is doing a bad job he has the power to fire him... yet, he doesn't.

Why is that?   Is it because he actually thinks he is doing a great job?  Or is it because everything that goes wrong he can use Fauci as a scapegoat?  But if he is so incompetent and keeps getting things wrong... then why won't the big boss man fire him?  Doesn't that show poor judgement?  SO WHICH IS IT?

These questions are rhetorical by the way.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 30, 2020, 09:41:33 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on October 30, 2020, 09:25:10 AM

Lick your finger and see which way the wind is blowing today to determine if we are listening to experts today or blaming them for being wrong.

What I think is shocking is that if Trump really believes Fauci is doing a bad job he has the power to fire him... yet, he doesn't.

Why is that?   Is it because he actually thinks he is doing a great job?  Or is it because everything that goes wrong he can use Fauci as a scapegoat?  But if he is so incompetent and keeps getting things wrong... then why won't the big boss man fire him?  Doesn't that show poor judgement?  SO WHICH IS IT?

These questions are rhetorical by the way.

Because of the pedestal the media has placed Fauci on, it would be political suicide to formally fire him.  Instead it seems he’s been largely sidelined the last few months with dwindling influence on the task force and with the administration because he’s been wrong on damn near everything.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Lens on October 30, 2020, 09:54:55 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on October 30, 2020, 08:03:32 AM

china 91,306 cases  4739 deaths...chaaaaaa right!!  they've harvested more kidneys from their "organ donors" than this

My brother in law runs the Asian business of an American hospitality company.  He saw his business dip to 6% of capacity in Jan / Feb / Mar and then come back online.  Many of his properties are owned by Chinese nationals.  Whenever I press him on China's transparency, he says he feels very confident that China is being forthright with their numbers. 

It comes down to behavior, they test the hell out of people, they isolate and quarantine those sick / exposure and their contact tracing is manhunt level.  It's just a completely different approach. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on October 30, 2020, 10:02:57 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on October 30, 2020, 09:41:33 AM

Because of the pedestal the media has placed Fauci on, it would be political suicide to formally fire him.  Instead it seems he’s been largely sidelined the last few months with dwindling influence on the task force and with the administration because he’s been wrong on damn near everything.

This checks out since cases have skyrocketed to higher than when every major city in the country was shut down.

Don't worry though Dr Atlas knows how to make the optics look better

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 30, 2020, 10:04:16 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on October 30, 2020, 09:41:33 AM

Because of the pedestal the media has placed Fauci on, it would be political suicide to formally fire him.  Instead it seems he’s been largely sidelined the last few months with dwindling influence on the task force and with the administration because he’s been wrong on damn near everything.

So, by this logic Trump should not fire an employee for being 'wrong on damn near everything?

Bold leadership.

You seriously buy this line of thinking?  Rube.

What has Fauci been wrong about?  Unless you're still counting the mask thing.  Which he retracted months ago.  Which he has explained a countless number of times.  Enlighten me, please.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Lens on October 30, 2020, 10:18:15 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on October 30, 2020, 09:41:33 AM

Because of the pedestal the media has placed Fauci on, it would be political suicide to formally fire him.  Instead it seems he’s been largely sidelined the last few months with dwindling influence on the task force and with the administration because he’s been wrong on damn near everything.

Fauci has modestly said all we can do is learn and he gladly admits when he's wrong.  But if he was wrong on damn near everything you'd have an army of medical people lining up to protest and that's not the case.  You get might get a dozen or two here and there but hundreds of thousands of doctors / scientists have stood behind him.

 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on October 30, 2020, 10:23:18 AM

It's all a conspiracy.  Fauci is wrong on everything, but this country is so obsessed with getting rid of Trump that nobody will say anything or report on it, other than the perfect Fox News.  Just you watch, if Biden is elected president, covid will be gone within 2 weeks.  I've been told as much by more than one Trump supporting coworker/friend.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on October 30, 2020, 10:25:24 AM

Quote from: BLM on October 30, 2020, 10:23:18 AM

It's all a conspiracy.  Fauci is wrong on everything, but this country is so obsessed with getting rid of Trump that nobody will say anything or report on it, other than the perfect Fox News.  Just you watch, if Biden is elected president, covid will be gone within 2 weeks.  I've been told as much by more than one Trump supporting coworker/friend.

So.... vote Biden to get rid of the coronavirus? I agree with your coworkers on something, so it's a start.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on October 30, 2020, 10:47:00 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on October 30, 2020, 08:09:19 AM

It's likely more than this, but not as many as you seem to be hoping for.

As if this were some sort of morbid competition between countries.

To give an idea of differences in approach. My colleagues in laws were stuck here from China because of COVID. Recently, they were given permission to return. They had to have a negative test 2-days before travel in order to even be allowed on the plane. When they arrive in China, they will immediately be tested again, and then moved to an isolation facility, where they will have to stay for 14-days, get another negative test, and then they will be allowed to return home.

Here, in most states you can still go out and get a beer and spit in each others faces.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on October 30, 2020, 10:49:00 AM

Quote from: forgetful on October 30, 2020, 10:47:00 AM

Here, in most states you can still go out and get a beer and spit in each others faces.

I'm just not seeing a problem here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on October 30, 2020, 10:52:06 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on October 30, 2020, 08:52:14 AM

Maybe that’s cause the administration was listening to the exPerTs who were saying the same thing.

Your pic indicates that is from 2017

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 30, 2020, 01:08:49 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on October 30, 2020, 08:52:14 AM

Maybe that’s cause the administration was listening to the exPerTs who were saying the same thing.

Bravo! Every couple of days, you manage to post how wrong Fauci was in the beginning without ever following with the fact that he acknowledged his mistakes, corrected them, and has been spot-on on just about everything since mid-March.

Meanwhile, your emperor has only gotten more and more and more wrong and has put even his supporters in harm's way repeatedly. What a great "leader" you worship!

But yeah, it's all Fauci's fault.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on October 30, 2020, 02:24:33 PM

Yep,  Fauci acted like a scientist and reacted to the science and data rather than digging deeper into a political foxhole.  I like people who are smart enough and open minded enough to evolve with new data.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on October 30, 2020, 02:25:54 PM

1st report of a patient with Covid and the flu in California.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 30, 2020, 02:28:47 PM

Quote from: MU82 on October 30, 2020, 01:08:49 PM

Bravo! Every couple of days, you manage to post how wrong Fauci was in the beginning without ever following with the fact that he acknowledged his mistakes, corrected them, and has been spot-on on just about everything since mid-March.

Meanwhile, your emperor has only gotten more and more and more wrong and has put even his supporters in harm's way repeatedly. What a great "leader" you worship!

But yeah, it's all Fauci's fault.

Every couple days I point out Fauci’s mistakes and every couple minutes you point out Trumps, we’re both extremely annoying.  Congrats

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on October 30, 2020, 02:31:00 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on October 30, 2020, 02:28:47 PM

Every couple days I point out Fauci’s mistakes and every couple minutes you point out Trumps, we’re both extremely annoying.  Congrats

Fauci has corrected mistakes and altered his view as we learned more about the virus.

Trump is still lying.

Comparing the two of them is stupid.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on October 30, 2020, 02:53:42 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on October 30, 2020, 02:28:47 PM

Every couple days I point out Fauci’s mistakes and every couple minutes you point out Trumps, we’re both extremely annoying.  Congrats

If you're not making mistakes and learning from them, you're not sciencing.

I haven't seen Trump learn from a mistake yet.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 30, 2020, 03:59:40 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on October 30, 2020, 02:31:00 PM

Fauci has corrected mistakes and altered his view as we learned more about the virus.

Trump is still lying.

Comparing the two of them is stupid.

Yep.

Quote from: Skatastrophy on October 30, 2020, 02:53:42 PM

If you're not making mistakes and learning from them, you're not sciencing.

I haven't seen Trump learn from a mistake yet.

And yep.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 30, 2020, 07:21:07 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on October 30, 2020, 02:31:00 PM

Fauci has corrected mistakes and altered his view as we learned more about the virus.

Trump is still lying.

Comparing the two of them is stupid.

Sigh.

But I guess I don't blame hoopy/chico/Cheeks/Pace. When you have to defend the indefensible, you are desperate enough to try anything ... even if you have to be wrong over and over and over again.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 30, 2020, 08:07:13 PM

Quote from: Skatastrophy on October 30, 2020, 02:53:42 PM

If you're not making mistakes and learning from them, you're not sciencing.

I haven't seen Trump learn from a mistake yet.

How are you supposed to learn from mistakes if you’ve never made one?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 30, 2020, 08:53:55 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on October 30, 2020, 08:07:13 PM

How are you supposed to learn from mistakes if you’ve never made one?

Actually funny

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on October 30, 2020, 09:44:13 PM

Quote from: Skatastrophy on October 30, 2020, 02:53:42 PM

If you're not making mistakes and learning from them, you're not sciencing.

Ain't this the truth. Some of my biggest discoveries were due to mistakes, or failures, and being attentive enough to realize the gold nugget in the heaping pile of mistakes/failure.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on October 31, 2020, 08:42:32 AM

New Stanford Study:

18 Trump rallies led to 30,000 COVID-19 cases, and 700 deaths:

https://twitter.com/AaronBelkin/status/1322376679407325184?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on October 31, 2020, 09:14:32 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on October 31, 2020, 08:42:32 AM

New Stanford Study:

18 Trump rallies led to 30,000 COVID-19 cases, and 700 deaths:

https://twitter.com/AaronBelkin/status/1322376679407325184?s=19

China’s fault.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on October 31, 2020, 10:00:00 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on October 31, 2020, 08:42:32 AM

New Stanford Study:

18 Trump rallies led to 30,000 COVID-19 cases, and 700 deaths:

https://twitter.com/AaronBelkin/status/1322376679407325184?s=19

Morons are gathering again

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on October 31, 2020, 10:03:35 AM

Winning.   Making America number 1 again.     Spreading his message to his enthusiastic followers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on October 31, 2020, 10:07:11 AM

Quote from: tower912 on October 31, 2020, 10:03:35 AM

Winning.   Making America number 1 again.     Spreading his message to his enthusiastic followers.

It's a very positive message

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on October 31, 2020, 10:15:08 AM

A message that leaves you breathless.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 31, 2020, 02:00:04 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on October 31, 2020, 10:07:11 AM

It's a very positive message

Might go viral...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on October 31, 2020, 10:22:20 PM

If the ‘head’ of the pandemic response is on Russian Today, does that mean we are cool with Marxism?  BLM has nothing to worry about huh?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on October 31, 2020, 10:24:59 PM

"Severe COVID-19 cases leave lasting effects, including on mental state."

 https://www.wsj.com/articles/severe-covid-19-cases-leave-lasting-effects-including-on-mental-state-11603877402?redirect=amp#click=https://t.co/75I0qN6jRK

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on November 01, 2020, 07:35:33 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on October 31, 2020, 10:22:20 PM

If the ‘head’ of the pandemic response is on Russian Today, does that mean we are cool with Marxism?  BLM has nothing to worry about huh?

RT has always been very pro-Trump.  My question is this.  Who is the audience for that interview?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 01, 2020, 07:46:55 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on October 31, 2020, 10:24:59 PM

"Severe COVID-19 cases leave lasting effects, including on mental state."

 https://www.wsj.com/articles/severe-covid-19-cases-leave-lasting-effects-including-on-mental-state-11603877402?redirect=amp#click=https://t.co/75I0qN6jRK

Truly one of the sad, underpublicized horrors of this virus.

I wonder how many attending no-mask, no-social-distancing, super-spreader rallies will end up with medical conditions that will dog them for months, years or longer.

Obviously, he doesn't give a rat's rump.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on November 01, 2020, 01:56:39 PM

Only in Trump’s amurica:

Dr. Atlas told Russian TV that Dr. Fauci's measures are actually killing people: "The public health leadership has failed egregiously and they are killing people with their fear-inducing shutdown policies."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 01, 2020, 02:28:24 PM

Quote from: Jockey on November 01, 2020, 01:56:39 PM

Only in Trump’s amurica:

Dr. Atlas told Russian TV that Dr. Fauci's measures are actually killing people: "The public health leadership has failed egregiously and they are killing people with their fear-inducing shutdown policies."

Don’t let him know about Boris Johnson’s England

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on November 01, 2020, 03:03:31 PM

Or that Russia has instituted mask mandates.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on November 01, 2020, 03:20:28 PM

Well, in Atlas’ defense he didn’t know Russia Today wasn’t American.  ::)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on November 01, 2020, 03:29:48 PM

Quote from: Jockey on November 01, 2020, 03:20:28 PM

Well, in Atlas’ defense he didn’t know Russia Today wasn’t American.  ::)

Only the best.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on November 01, 2020, 03:39:31 PM

When Asked why he didn't feel the need to look out for everyone, why he was all about himself, Atlas Shrugged.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on November 01, 2020, 03:44:24 PM

Don't a few people here use RT/Russia Today as a news source. Someone may want to tell them.

https://twitter.com/SWAtlasHoover/status/1322962638012358657?s=19

Leaders lead.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 01, 2020, 04:20:53 PM

Quote from: tower912 on November 01, 2020, 03:39:31 PM

When Asked why he didn't feel the need to look out for everyone, why he was all about himself, Atlas Shrugged.

Boom!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 01, 2020, 04:41:53 PM

It has always been clear that we have undercounted new Covid cases because of testing deficiencies. The problem appears to be getting worse with the proliferation of rapid tests that people can run at home.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/11/01/us/antigen-testing.html

Public health officials say that antigen tests, which are faster than polymerase chain reaction (P.C.R.) tests but less able to detect low levels of the virus, are an important tool for limiting the spread of the coronavirus. But they caution that with inconsistent public reporting, the case undercount may worsen as more “point-of-care” antigen tests, as well as D.I.Y. and home test kits, come on the market.

“We want to be sure that we’re not now saying, ‘there’s no disease,’ when there is lots of disease. All that’s happened is that the science with which we identify it has evolved,” said Janet Hamilton, the executive director of the Council of State and Territorial Epidemiologists, the group that helps the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention define cases of the coronavirus.

Public health experts say that more coronavirus rapid testing will lead to more undercounting of coronavirus cases, even in states that attempt to count them publicly.

—————

Definitely a catch 22. It’s great that people have a quick and easy way to determine if they are infected. However, we need to figure out a better way of getting the numbers to public health officials so that we can use the information to mitigate spread.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on November 01, 2020, 05:09:59 PM

Quote from: tower912 on November 01, 2020, 03:39:31 PM

When Asked why he didn't feel the need to look out for everyone, why he was all about himself, Atlas Shrugged.

Ayn'a?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 01, 2020, 09:41:41 PM

I am sick of all the doctors rigging the system.

If only all those corrupt MDs were as honest as the fine, upstanding folks in the Trump universe.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on November 01, 2020, 10:24:03 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on October 31, 2020, 10:22:20 PM

If the ‘head’ of the pandemic response is on Russian Today, does that mean we are cool with Marxism?  BLM has nothing to worry about huh?

So he apologized today saying he was unaware who RT was.

There is a problem with that though. These types of interviews have to be approved of by the WH. Many scientists, including colleagues of mine, were banned from speaking with media when interviews were requested. Fauci, publicly said they were blocking him from interviews.

So two possiblities. The WH approved this. Or Atlas went rogue and violated the rules (fireable offense).

My guess is it was the former.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on November 02, 2020, 08:27:56 AM

Franklin County, MO (rural St. Louis exurb) 8th grader dies from COVID-19:

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/franklin-county-boy-is-the-first-child-to-die-of-coronavirus-in-missouri/article_8b921ede-9493-59e1-9704-43388f8eac17.htmlhttps://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/franklin-county-boy-is-the-first-child-to-die-of-coronavirus-in-missouri/article_8b921ede-9493-59e1-9704-43388f8eac17.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 02, 2020, 09:15:30 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on November 02, 2020, 08:27:56 AM

Franklin County, MO (rural St. Louis exurb) 8th grader dies from COVID-19:

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/franklin-county-boy-is-the-first-child-to-die-of-coronavirus-in-missouri/article_8b921ede-9493-59e1-9704-43388f8eac17.htmlhttps://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/franklin-county-boy-is-the-first-child-to-die-of-coronavirus-in-missouri/article_8b921ede-9493-59e1-9704-43388f8eac17.html

What words can be said anymore

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on November 02, 2020, 09:24:32 AM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 02, 2020, 09:15:30 AM

What words can be said anymore

It's truly awful. We need more stories like this because it's easy for guys like Rocket and Guru to just say "it's almost nobody that dies" and "only the old people need to be protected" but you have to humanize the stories behind the numbers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 02, 2020, 09:42:27 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on November 02, 2020, 09:24:32 AM

It's truly awful. We need more stories like this because it's easy for guys like Rocket and Guru to just say "it's almost nobody that dies" and "only the old people need to be protected" but you have to humanize the stories behind the numbers.

It doesn’t matter.  It really doesn’t to them.  They’re not alone.  I understand the dynamics around a pandemic go beyond the disease.  The toll it takes on businesses and individuals and families across the country run deep.  The people that dismiss this are missing the big picture.  The economy will only get better when we beat the pandemic.  Otherwise, it’ll be starts and stops.  The next 4 months are going to be more grim than the previous 8 because we didn’t do enough

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 02, 2020, 09:47:36 AM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 02, 2020, 09:15:30 AM

What words can be said anymore

The 4 words the emperor regurgitated to his adoring, non-mask-wearing, non-social-distancing worshipers at one of his deadly, super-spreader rallies, of course:

"It affects virtually nobody."

He and his sycophants simply do not care.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 02, 2020, 10:28:13 AM

Well, apparently the U.S. isn't the only place full of people who have a misunderstanding of the law.

People in England are refusing to lock down, using Section 61 of the Magna Carta as an excuse.  Search on Twitter.  It's both funny and weirdly familiar.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on November 02, 2020, 10:47:52 AM

Deep dive into the White House COVID-19 outbreak:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-11-01/trump-s-dismissal-of-covid-risk-paved-way-to-white-house-outbreak

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on November 02, 2020, 10:54:09 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on November 02, 2020, 10:28:13 AM

Well, apparently the U.S. isn't the only place full of people who have a misunderstanding of the law.

People in England are refusing to lock down, using Section 61 of the Magna Carta as an excuse.  Search on Twitter.  It's both funny and weirdly familiar.

Liberate them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on November 02, 2020, 11:19:25 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on November 02, 2020, 10:47:52 AM

Deep dive into the White House COVID-19 outbreak:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-11-01/trump-s-dismissal-of-covid-risk-paved-way-to-white-house-outbreak

Nobody will ever out-lie Shuckabee, but Jud Deere does his best.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 02, 2020, 01:48:39 PM

The outbreak is so bad in Belgium, some Covid-positive health workers are being asked to keep working

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/27/europe/belgium-coronavirus-hospitals-intl/?hpt=ob_blogfooterold

Health workers in some hospitals in Liege, Belgium's third largest city and a coronavirus hotspot, have been asked to continue working even if they test positive for Covid-19 -- as long as they are not showing any symptoms of the disease.

Top health official have warned that Belgium could run out of intensive care beds in as little as two weeks and some hospitals are facing staff shortages. The country of 11.5 million people has reported on average more than 13,000 cases a day in the past week, according to the national public health institute Sciensano. The Covid-19 outbreak in Belgium is the second worst in Europe in terms of new cases per capita, after only the Czech Republic.

---------------

Unfortunate and disturbing. The way numbers are still skyrocketing in the Dakotas, Iowa, Wisconsin and a few other places, I wouldn't rule out seeing this here as fall and winter progress....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 02, 2020, 03:10:37 PM

Quote from: Jockey on November 02, 2020, 11:19:25 AM

Nobody will ever out-lie Shuckabee, but Jud Deere does his best.

You know, Kayleigh is so, so, so very bad -- gleefully lying for her emperor day after day -- that I sometimes miss the S.S. Huckabee. At least she acted like she couldn't stand her job for a minute.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on November 02, 2020, 03:17:46 PM

Quote from: MU82 on November 02, 2020, 03:10:37 PM

You know, Kayleigh is so, so, so very bad -- gleefully lying for her emperor day after day -- that I sometimes miss the S.S. Huckabee. At least she acted like she couldn't stand her job for a minute.

I can't believe she's actually quite intelligent. thought she was just a stubborn bimbo for Trump's fans to fawn over didn't realize she had attended Georgetown and Harvard Law.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on November 02, 2020, 04:04:42 PM

Bimbo and fat jokes (if that is what you were getting @ 82 with the S.S comments) are not necessary and are sexist.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on November 02, 2020, 04:25:02 PM

Quote from: reinko on November 02, 2020, 04:04:42 PM

Bimbo and fat jokes (if that is what you were getting @ 82 with the S.S comments) are not necessary and are sexist.

I think he was commenting on what prolific liars they are. Nothing sexist about it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on November 02, 2020, 04:33:12 PM

Quote from: reinko on November 02, 2020, 04:04:42 PM

Bimbo and fat jokes (if that is what you were getting @ 82 with the S.S comments) are not necessary and are sexist.

I didn't call her a bimbo?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on November 02, 2020, 05:10:33 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on November 02, 2020, 04:33:12 PM

I didn't call her a bimbo?

> thought she was just a stubborn bimbo

So at one point you thought she was a bimbo.

That's sexist.

I rest my case, your honor.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on November 02, 2020, 05:14:10 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on November 02, 2020, 03:17:46 PM

I can't believe she's actually quite intelligent. thought she was just a stubborn bimbo for Trump's fans to fawn over didn't realize she had attended Georgetown and Harvard Law.

I thought she was a stubborn bimbo...but apparently because she went to a fancy school, now she isn’t?

Again, I’m as a big liberal as you are, but blond hair, woman...bimbo is a term that is weighted in her gender.

You can call her uninformed, vapid, hypocrite, on a different planet...but whatever.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Billy Hoyle on November 02, 2020, 05:48:58 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on November 02, 2020, 03:17:46 PM

I can't believe she's actually quite intelligent. thought she was just a stubborn bimbo for Trump's fans to fawn over didn't realize she had attended Georgetown and Harvard Law.

The Harvard law thing is weird. She spent her first two years of law school at Miami (FL). It's rare for people to transfer law schools after two years and usually, that doesn't get one a degree from the school to which they transfer. Who knows.

But, when one considers Ron Desantis is a Harvard Law grad it's easy to question their standards.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on November 02, 2020, 06:08:36 PM

Wow, they let in DeSantis but didn’t want me.....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on November 02, 2020, 06:15:59 PM

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 02, 2020, 05:48:58 PM

The Harvard law thing is weird. She spent her first two years of law school at Miami (FL). It's rare for people to transfer law schools after two years and usually, that doesn't get one a degree from the school to which they transfer. Who knows.

But, when one considers Ron Desantis is a Harvard Law grad it's easy to question their standards.

Amorality and intelligence aren't mutually exclusive.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 02, 2020, 06:19:47 PM

I am just about finished with Woodward's "Fear," and he is writing about having interviewed Jared in May.

"I think we have rounded the corner on this," Jared said.

At the time, COVID-19 had contributed to the deaths of about 70K Americans.

160K+ dead Americans later, with a second (or is it third?) wave wreaking havoc, Jared's nepotism-loving daddy-in-law is still saying we have turned the corner.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on November 02, 2020, 06:27:49 PM

Quote from: reinko on November 02, 2020, 05:14:10 PM

I thought she was a stubborn bimbo...but apparently because she went to a fancy school, now she isn’t?

Again, I’m as a big liberal as you are, but blond hair, woman...bimbo is a term that is weighted in her gender.

You can call her uninformed, vapid, hypocrite, on a different planet...but whatever.

Sorry, the association with Trump and finding conventionally attractive women and putting them in positions that they may not be qualified for (his daughter) made me assume that one would fit that description. That being said I will change my statement to "I thought she was a conventionally attractive vapid hypocritical millennial air head that was simply put into her position to be eye candy for a lot of misogynistic trump supporters. Rather I found out that she is quite an intelligent vapid hypocritical millennial"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 02, 2020, 10:01:02 PM

Dr. Deborah L. Birx, who has carefully straddled the line between science and politics as she helps lead the Trump administration’s coronavirus response, delivered a stark private warning on Monday, telling White House officials that the pandemic is entering a new and “deadly phase” that demands a more aggressive approach.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/11/02/world/covid-19-coronavirus-updates?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20201102&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=43265&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

The warning — sent in a private memo to White House officials as the nation recorded more than 91,300 new cases, its second-highest daily total — amounted to a direct contradiction of President Trump’s repeated false assertions that the pandemic is “rounding the corner.” In it, Dr. Birx suggested Mr. Trump and his advisers were spending too much time focusing on lockdowns, and not enough on controlling the virus.

“We are entering the most concerning and most deadly phase of this pandemic,” Dr. Birx wrote, adding, “This is not about lockdowns — It hasn’t been about lockdowns since March or April. It’s about an aggressive balanced approach that is not being implemented.”

The report warned against the type of rallies that Mr. Trump has been holding. It also predicted that the United States would continue to see days when the number of new cases exceeded 100,000. Its existence was first reported by The Washington Post; a top White House official who has seen it confirmed its contents.

The blunt message was a striking one for Dr. Birx, who at least in public has resisted disagreeing with Mr. Trump. But with cases soaring around the country, and hospital intensive care units starting to fill up, government scientists and public health experts are growing increasingly concerned that the worst of the pandemic is yet to come.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 02, 2020, 10:11:36 PM

Quote from: MU82 on November 02, 2020, 10:01:02 PM

The blunt message was a striking one for Dr. Birx, who at least in public has resisted disagreeing with Mr. Trump. But with cases soaring around the country, and hospital intensive care units starting to fill up, government scientists and public health experts are growing increasingly concerned that the worst of the pandemic is yet to come.

Something many people have known for months.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 02, 2020, 10:38:52 PM

Quote from: reinko on November 02, 2020, 04:04:42 PM

fat jokes (if that is what you were getting @ 82 with the S.S comments) are not necessary and are sexist.

I seriously never thought of it that way, reinko. My wife was the one who came up with that nickname because Huckabee's initials literally are S.S. Now that you point it out, I see the fat-shaming and I'm embarrassed I didn't recognize it sooner. I will no longer call her that, obviously, and I will share what you said with my wife, as well. There are plenty of things to criticize Huckabee for; no need to make a comment that can be interpreted as fat-shaming.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 03, 2020, 08:30:37 AM

I don’t care about her appearance, Sanders is just a nasty woman

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Lens on November 03, 2020, 10:46:35 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on November 03, 2020, 07:51:29 AM

And the Captain Misogynist throws his wife under the bus.

Wow...I have not laughed so hard since 2919 2019.  That's well delivered.
 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU11W on November 03, 2020, 10:48:58 AM

Quote from: The Lens on November 03, 2020, 10:46:35 AM

Wow...I have not laughed so hard since 2919.  That's well delivered.

Umm.... Are you from the future??  What's it like in 2919? Does this mean we solved global warming?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on November 03, 2020, 10:49:59 AM

Quote from: MU11W on November 03, 2020, 10:48:58 AM

Umm.... Are you from the future??  What's it like in 2919? Does this mean we solved global warming?

More important question: is arby's still around?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Lens on November 03, 2020, 11:02:17 AM

Quote from: MU11W on November 03, 2020, 10:48:58 AM

Umm.... Are you from the future??  What's it like in 2919? Does this mean we solved global warming?

I have been to 2919...we were an 8 seed, we lost our last 4 games in conference, got upset by St. John's in the quarters and are favored by 1.5 in the 8/9 game.  I came home before tip off.  But some fans tell me that at age 944 Wojo is starting to really get a feel for the game and they expect next season to be more of an emphasis on defense.

Global Warming is a thing...Milwaukee's average temp is 88 degrees, it really helped recruiting.

Arby's is now sold in every Whole Foods, make of that what you will.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on November 03, 2020, 11:58:28 AM

Bethany Nesbitt, COVID-19 symptomatic, and later tested COVID-19 positive, dies at age 20. Read the family statement in the thread.

https://twitter.com/stephenjnesbitt/status/1323665713815576576?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on November 03, 2020, 12:27:20 PM

Can we stop posting random COVID deaths? Every death is tragic, but it’s excessive and doesn’t change anything about the disease and it’s effects. If the death rate for a disease for a certain group is .0001%, highlighting that 1 in 10K and saying “see it’s very serious” is not helpful. We all know it’s not a joke and that we need to take precautions, but the key for young adults is preventing spread to others, not that they are going to be in the unfortunate super minority to pass away.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on November 03, 2020, 12:34:36 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on November 03, 2020, 12:27:20 PM

Can we stop posting random COVID deaths? Every death is tragic, but it’s excessive and doesn’t change anything about the disease and it’s effects. If the death rate for a disease for a certain group is .0001%, highlighting that 1 in 10K and saying “see it’s very serious” is not helpful. We all know it’s not a joke and that we need to take precautions, but the key for young adults is preventing spread to others, not that they are going to be in the unfortunate super minority to pass away.

Agree with the first statement that posting random deaths is excessive. That being said there's still people putting their head in the sand that it doesn't effect any young adults or youths. I think it's important to humanize those deaths as more than a statistical chance people keep saying we should take

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 03, 2020, 12:41:02 PM

The N.C. Department of Health and Human Services reported its highest number of COVID-19 deaths on Tuesday, with 67 deaths linked to the virus.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article246920692.html?ac_cid=DM315284&ac_bid=-1554633302

So, 9-10 months into this crisis, the nation's 10th largest state just set its single-day record for coronavirus deaths -- on the same day that millions of American voters are saying "yay" or "nay" to a president who repeatedly claims the country has "turned the corner" on COVID-19.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on November 03, 2020, 12:57:03 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on November 03, 2020, 12:27:20 PM

Can we stop posting random COVID deaths? Every death is tragic, but it’s excessive and doesn’t change anything about the disease and it’s effects. If the death rate for a disease for a certain group is .0001%, highlighting that 1 in 10K and saying “see it’s very serious” is not helpful. We all know it’s not a joke and that we need to take precautions, but the key for young adults is preventing spread to others, not that they are going to be in the unfortunate super minority to pass away.

1) Empathy is never wrong. Perhaps you could use more of it in your life. Strange hill to die on.

2) "We all know it's not a joke and that we need to take precautions."  LMAO. Thanks for the laugh. 👍 Someone hasn't been paying attention.

3) "The key for young adults is preventing spread to others." This again of course is not going well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on November 03, 2020, 12:58:50 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on November 03, 2020, 10:49:59 AM

More important question: is arby's still around?

I hear they are buying up restaurants all around and hope to be known as America runs on Arby's.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on November 03, 2020, 01:17:23 PM

Quote from: MU82 on November 03, 2020, 12:41:02 PM

The N.C. Department of Health and Human Services reported its highest number of COVID-19 deaths on Tuesday, with 67 deaths linked to the virus.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article246920692.html?ac_cid=DM315284&ac_bid=-1554633302

So, 9-10 months into this crisis, the nation's 10th largest state just set its single-day record for coronavirus deaths -- on the same day that millions of American voters are saying "yay" or "nay" to a president who repeatedly claims the country has "turned the corner" on COVID-19.

Never really thought about it much, but I never realized N.C. was the 10th largest state. Off the top of my head I would have guessed 15 - range.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 03, 2020, 01:25:31 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on November 03, 2020, 12:57:03 PM

1) Empathy is never wrong. Perhaps you could use more of it in your life. Strange hill to die on.

2) "We all know it's not a joke and that we need to take precautions."  LMAO. Thanks for the laugh. 👍 Someone hasn't been paying attention.

3) "The key for young adults is preventing spread to others." This again of course is not going well.

Wags is not your enemy. Dial it down.

I agree with him that we don't need to post every death. I also agree with Galway that because so many folks, including some of the highest-ranking people in the U.S. government, believe that youngsters are "immune," it is news when one dies. I also agree with Galway that it's important to put a face on some of these.

Wags wasn't dying on any hill. He stated an opinion, and he wasn't disrespectful to you or any other Scooper. Your line about his empathy, however, was out of line. He might be 10 times as empathetic as you are. You don't know because you don't know him, and nobody here knows you either. So don't make wild, baseless accusations or assumptions.

You and I often agree politically, but, as I said, dial it down please.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on November 03, 2020, 01:52:26 PM

Quote from: MU82 on November 03, 2020, 01:25:31 PM

Wags is not your enemy. Dial it down.

I agree with him that we don't need to post every death. I also agree with Galway that because so many folks, including some of the highest-ranking people in the U.S. government, believe that youngsters are "immune," it is news when one dies. I also agree with Galway that it's important to put a face on some of these.

Wags wasn't dying on any hill. He stated an opinion, and he wasn't disrespectful to you or any other Scooper. Your line about his empathy, however, was out of line. He might be 10 times as empathetic as you are. You don't know because you don't know him, and nobody here knows you either. So don't make wild, baseless accusations or assumptions.

You and I often agree politically, but, as I said, dial it down please.

I agree, all we can go by, is what, and how, people post here and that is what I am going by.

It's pretty obvious that people, self included aren't just listing all several hundred thousand COVID-19 deaths. It's also pretty obvious people aren't listing a plethora of random COVID-19 deaths without particular meaning. Have we really reached the point of indifference in the COVID-19 thread?

Nothing is wild or needs to be dialed down.

I said his post lacked empathy. That is how it came across to me. It stood out because there have been very few specific death examples posted of the hundreds of thousands that have occurred thus far.

Nothing is wild or needs to be dialed down. It's a pretty calm matter of fact discussion. Perhaps take a bit of your own advice and not assume. I'm also quite sure I haven't ever told you how to post. 👍✌️

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on November 03, 2020, 01:54:40 PM

Quote from: MU82 on November 03, 2020, 12:41:02 PM

The N.C. Department of Health and Human Services reported its highest number of COVID-19 deaths on Tuesday, with 67 deaths linked to the virus.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article246920692.html?ac_cid=DM315284&ac_bid=-1554633302

So, 9-10 months into this crisis, the nation's 10th largest state just set its single-day record for coronavirus deaths -- on the same day that millions of American voters are saying "yay" or "nay" to a president who repeatedly claims the country has "turned the corner" on COVID-19.

But what did they really die from?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on November 04, 2020, 12:04:54 AM

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-54780460

Algorithm to detect ‘Covid cough’

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on November 04, 2020, 09:07:19 PM

Over 100,000 new cases today. Deaths and hospitalizations now rising rapidly too.

President is hiding in his bunker, yelling at people to file more lawsuits to stop the vote, instead of maybe trying to do something about a growing medical crisis.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 04, 2020, 09:45:14 PM

Quote from: forgetful on November 04, 2020, 09:07:19 PM

Over 100,000 new cases today. Deaths and hospitalizations now rising rapidly too.

President is hiding in his bunker, yelling at people to file more lawsuits to stop the vote, instead of maybe trying to do something about a growing medical crisis.

Just a guess, but I am guessing POTUS is so obsessed with suing states and stopping vote counts that anyone who tries to mention the pandemic will be kicked out of his office. IMO, yesterday was our last chance we had that he would do a damn thing about Covid.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Marquette Fan on November 04, 2020, 09:59:56 PM

Quote from: forgetful on November 04, 2020, 09:07:19 PM

Over 100,000 new cases today. Deaths and hospitalizations now rising rapidly too.

President is hiding in his bunker, yelling at people to file more lawsuits to stop the vote, instead of maybe trying to do something about a growing medical crisis.

What medical crisis?  There can't be one - the Trump Administration said one of its accomplishments was ending the Covid-19 Pandemic:  https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000175-6bc5-d2df-adff-6fdfff5c0000

Being very sarcastic here as I don't for one second believe the Covid-19 pandemic is anywhere near over nor do I think the Trump administration did anything to address the pandemic either.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on November 04, 2020, 10:50:51 PM

Quote from: forgetful on November 04, 2020, 09:07:19 PM

Over 100,000 new cases today. Deaths and hospitalizations now rising rapidly too.

President is hiding in his bunker, yelling at people to file more lawsuits to stop the vote, instead of maybe trying to do something about a growing medical crisis.

I find it very amusing that many of the people who called me out on my Covid rants are now saying almost exactly what I was saying.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Billy Hoyle on November 05, 2020, 12:15:54 PM

The Sanford Pentagon in Sioux Falls was a popular choice for MTE's. But, with the uncontrolled spread in SD, thanks to Governor Noem, teams are pulling out.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on November 05, 2020, 12:26:17 PM

https://www.thelocal.dk/20201105/denmark-to-restrict-north-jutland-borders-due-to-mink-coronavirus-outbreak

Well, this is terrifying.  Added the text.

Denmark to restrict North Jutland borders due to mink coronavirus outbreak
The Local
news@thelocal.dk
@thelocaldenmark
5 November 2020
11:01 CET+01:00
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Denmark to restrict North Jutland borders due to mink coronavirus outbreak
Jammerbugt is one of seven North Jutland municipalities to be encompassed by local restrictions due to a coronavirus mutation stemming from mink. Photo: Henning Bagger/Ritzau Scanpix
Authorities in Denmark are to ask residents in North Jutland not to leave their home municipalities due to concerns over the spread of a mutated form of coronavirus.

Seven municipalities with confirmed coronavirus cases in mink are to be encompassed by restrictions asking residents to remain within municipal limits as far as possible.

The municipalities affected by the order are Hjørring, Frederikshavn, Vesthimmerland, Brønderslev, Jammerbugt, Thisted and Læsø.

“We have to stop movement of residents across municipal borders. We need to find a model for this,” Per Bach Laursen, the mayor in the Vesthimmerland municipality, told Politiken.

Restaurants, sports and cultural activities are to be closed for the next four weeks, Laursen also told the newspaper.

Regional broadcaster TVMidtvest reports that there is unlikely to be any physical control of municipal borders, but that the government is still working to finalise measures. That is also based on comments from Laursen, the mayor in Vesthimmerland.

The intervention comes after the national government on Wednesday announced it would cull the entire population of minks at farms in Denmark.

The decision to cull up to 17 million animals was deemed unavoidable after a mutated version of the new coronavirus was detected at mink farms and then spread to people.

The mutation "could pose a risk that future (coronavirus) vaccines won't work the way they should," Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen told a press conference, adding: "It is necessary to cull all the minks."

Laursen told broadcaster DR that people in the affected North Jutland municipalities should stay within the borders of the municipality in which they live and get a coronavirus test.

Anyone who tests positive for coronavirus in the affected municipalities will also be required to test for whether they have been infected with the normal strain or the variation from mink farms.

Schools and child care facilities will remain open, but adult education will be limited, according to the Danish media reports.

The restrictions will come into effect from tomorrow for an initial four weeks.

Twelve people were registered as infected with a mutated form of the coronavirus, news wire Ritzau reported on Wednesday, but the real number is likely to be far higher. Newspaper Information reported on Thursday that up to four or five percent of infections in North Jutland may be with the specific mink mutation of coronavirus that is concerning authorities.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on November 05, 2020, 12:40:59 PM

Yep, good on Denmark for making a big decision so quickly

> a mutated version of the new coronavirus was detected at mink farms and then spread to people.

Pretty common for diseases to jump between an animal and a human population. Pretty rare for that same virus to mutate & jump to a completely new animal population and jump back to humans.

SARS COV jumped from bats, to humans, as well as himalayan palm civets & related carnivores. The rest of the study is beyond me - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2546865/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Billy Hoyle on November 05, 2020, 12:41:24 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 05, 2020, 12:26:17 PM

https://www.thelocal.dk/20201105/denmark-to-restrict-north-jutland-borders-due-to-mink-coronavirus-outbreak

Well, this is terrifying.  Added the text.

Denmark to restrict North Jutland borders due to mink coronavirus outbreak

if anyone out there wants to get their significant others a mink coat it looks like prices are going to be coming down.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 05, 2020, 01:11:34 PM

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 05, 2020, 12:41:24 PM

if anyone out there wants to get their significant others a mink coat it looks like prices are going to be coming down.

That's actually been a question of mine - are they sill gonna use the pelts?   I'd guess not since the process exposes bodily fluids to humans.  If so...prices might actually rise.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Billy Hoyle on November 05, 2020, 03:51:58 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on November 05, 2020, 01:11:34 PM

That's actually been a question of mine - are they sill gonna use the pelts?   I'd guess not since the process exposes bodily fluids to humans.  If so...prices might actually rise.

Hmmm, sound like Kim is getting a mink coat to stay with Don Jr. a little longer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 05, 2020, 04:04:50 PM

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 05, 2020, 03:51:58 PM

Hmmm, sound like Kim is getting a mink coat to stay with Don Jr. a little longer.

Lol.  I guess minky fluids would be more correct, but your point remains. :)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on November 05, 2020, 05:29:50 PM

U.S. has become the first country to top 100,000 coronavirus cases in a day.

We are doomed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 05, 2020, 05:48:15 PM

Quote from: Skatastrophy on November 05, 2020, 05:29:50 PM

U.S. has become the first country to top 100,000 coronavirus cases in a day.

We are doomed.

Great. Still 'winning'....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on November 05, 2020, 05:56:13 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 05, 2020, 05:48:15 PM

Great. Still 'winning'....

Rounding the corner.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 05, 2020, 06:21:01 PM

Quote from: BLM on November 05, 2020, 05:56:13 PM

Rounding the corner.

I believe everyone misheard.  It was "We're rounding (up) the coroner"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on November 05, 2020, 07:22:04 PM

Steve Bannon: I'd Put Anthony Fauci's Head On A Pike As A 'Warning' "That's how you win the revolution," said Trump's former strategist.

Former White House strategist Steve Bannon on Thursday discussed the imagined beheadings of infectious disease expert Dr. Anthony Fauci and FBI Director Christopher Wray, saying he would like to put their “heads on pikes” outside the White House as a “warning.”

Bannon continued, “I’d actually like to go back to the old times of Tudor England. I’d put the heads on pikes. I’d put them at the two corners of the White House as a warning to federal bureaucrats,” he explained, as Media Matters for America first reported.
“You either get with the program or you’re gone ― time to stop playing games,” Bannon added. “Blow it all up.”

Bannon’s co-host Jack Maxey appeared to agree, indicating that the men were “traitors.”

“You know what, Steve, yesterday there was the anniversary of the hanging of two Tories in Philadelphia,” Maxey said. “These were Quaker businessmen who had cohabitated, if you will, with the British while they were occupying Philadelphia. These people were hung. This is what we used to do to traitors.”

Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, has urged the public to follow strict measures to combat the coronavirus. 

In August, he said that Tucker Carlson’s rhetoric on Fox News had prompted “some of the crazies in society to start threatening me.” Fauci is currently protected by extra government security after receiving death threats.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 05, 2020, 07:29:08 PM

Two not-great trends, from McClatchey News ...

++ New confirmed cases of the coronavirus in the United States are at an all-time high of more than 86,000 a day on average, and hospitalizations are setting records all around the country as winter approaches. Daily new cases have surged 45% over the past two weeks, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. Deaths are up 15 percent, to an average of 846 every day.

++ A new study of more than 3,000 health-care workers found that coronavirus antibodies decline by half in just under three months and disappear after about four and a half. The findings suggest people might not be able to depend on antibodies as protection from a second infection. After several studies, it remains unclear what level of immunity they provide and for how long.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on November 05, 2020, 08:08:46 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 05, 2020, 05:48:15 PM

Great. Still 'winning'....

At this point, I'm starting to fear that we are all doomed to get it, because of the President. It is out of control right now, and getting worse, and I don't see him doing anything to help fix this.

The number of people I know that have gotten it recently, with no clue where they were even exposed is getting a bit frightening.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 05, 2020, 08:13:19 PM

Quote from: forgetful on November 05, 2020, 08:08:46 PM

At this point, I'm starting to fear that we are all doomed to get it, because of the President. It is out of control right now, and getting worse, and I don't see him doing anything to help fix this.

The number of people I know that have gotten it recently, with no clue where they were even exposed is getting a bit frightening.

Ditto. I have two co-workers who are positive with no clue where they got it.

Heading into the Holidays too. It’s gonna be rough.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 05, 2020, 08:35:45 PM

Quote from: forgetful on November 05, 2020, 08:08:46 PM

The number of people I know that have gotten it recently, with no clue where they were even exposed is getting a bit frightening.

I'm not quite as similar.  But until the past couple weeks, I've only known a few coworkers and a couple 3rd parties.  Past 2 weeks though, I know a few friends that have it, and a few friends and neighbors that are quarantining due to exposure.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on November 05, 2020, 09:05:06 PM

Quote from: forgetful on November 05, 2020, 08:08:46 PM

At this point, I'm starting to fear that we are all doomed to get it, because of the President. It is out of control right now, and getting worse, and I don't see him doing anything to help fix this.

The number of people I know that have gotten it recently, with no clue where they were even exposed is getting a bit frightening.

Yeah. I was saying this 6 months ago.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on November 05, 2020, 09:33:00 PM

Counties with the worst COVID surges overwhelmingly voted for Trump.
It's almost as if there's a connection.

https://abc7chicago.com/politics/counties-with-worst-covid-19-surges-overwhelmingly-voted-trump/7683127/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on November 05, 2020, 09:34:05 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on November 05, 2020, 09:33:00 PM

Counties with the worst COVID surges overwhelmingly voted for Trump.
It's almost as there's a connection.

https://abc7chicago.com/politics/counties-with-worst-covid-19-surges-overwhelmingly-voted-trump/7683127/

China’s fault.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 05, 2020, 09:51:19 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on November 05, 2020, 09:33:00 PM

Counties with the worst COVID surges overwhelmingly voted for Trump.
It's almost as if there's a connection.

https://abc7chicago.com/politics/counties-with-worst-covid-19-surges-overwhelmingly-voted-trump/7683127/

Natural selection can be brutal, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on November 05, 2020, 10:34:25 PM

120,000+

The killer is getting his wish.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on November 06, 2020, 06:02:37 AM

Quote from: Jockey on November 05, 2020, 09:05:06 PM

Yeah. I was saying this 6 months ago.

Oh, we know, you've beaten that dead horse for 6 months.  We all know it, but you just say it every day like it's new information.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on November 06, 2020, 06:03:27 AM

Quote from: MU82 on November 05, 2020, 07:29:08 PM

Two not-great trends, from McClatchey News ...

++ New confirmed cases of the coronavirus in the United States are at an all-time high of more than 86,000 a day on average, and hospitalizations are setting records all around the country as winter approaches. Daily new cases have surged 45% over the past two weeks, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. Deaths are up 15 percent, to an average of 846 every day.

++ A new study of more than 3,000 health-care workers found that coronavirus antibodies decline by half in just under three months and disappear after about four and a half. The findings suggest people might not be able to depend on antibodies as protection from a second infection. After several studies, it remains unclear what level of immunity they provide and for how long.

While that is concerning, have there been studies done on the memory T cells that produce the antibodies? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 06, 2020, 07:26:50 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 06, 2020, 06:02:37 AM

Oh, we know, you've beaten that dead horse for 6 months.  We all know it, but you just say it every day like it's new information.

And forgetful at least adds value to his posts and isn’t just the same talking point after talking point, day after day.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 06, 2020, 08:01:12 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 06, 2020, 06:03:27 AM

While that is concerning, have there been studies done on the memory T cells that produce the antibodies?

I don't know, Hards. I don't pretend to be an expert on any of this, which is why I am very interested in what the actual experts say.

P.S.: Politicians don't qualify as "experts"! (And I'm not saying you claim otherwise.)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on November 06, 2020, 08:45:58 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 06, 2020, 06:03:27 AM

While that is concerning, have there been studies done on the memory T cells that produce the antibodies? 

That's the convo I keep seeing, and it keeps going like this:

1. Antibodies dissipate in just a few months
2. Does that mean that vaccines won't work?
3. Antibodies don't necessarily need to be present for a body to have an immune response to a virus, but we aren't sure yet. Give us some time
4. THE VACCINE WON'T WORK AND THAT'S WHY WE SHOULD BE AIMING FOR HERD IMMUNITY
5. Dude, literally nobody said that and you're an idiot

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 06, 2020, 08:48:44 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 06, 2020, 06:03:27 AM

While that is concerning, have there been studies done on the memory T cells that produce the antibodies?

Sort of. Memory T cells recognize the virus much more quickly than native T cells, and they help neutralize the virus. Antibody production comes from memory B cells. But the gist of your comment is valid: our response to a second exposure can be much more vigorous, even if we don't have detectable antibody levels prior to the second exposure.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/05/covid-immune-response-much-faster-and-stronger-post-infection-coronavirus-scientists-say

When people are infected with coronavirus, the immune system launches a multi-pronged attack. One form of protection comes from T cells, which seek and destroy infected cells, and so prevent the virus from spreading. A second front involves B cells, which release antibodies into the blood. Antibodies latch on to the virus and stop it from invading cells in the first place.

------------

For a more complete (but not covid-specific) discussion of the complex interaction of B and T cells (including the 'memory' versions thereof):

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6102609/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on November 06, 2020, 09:32:08 AM

The current Nat Geo magazine is all about COVID.
They had a one page summary on a vaccine development.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on November 06, 2020, 10:55:40 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 06, 2020, 06:02:37 AM

Oh, we know, you've beaten that dead horse for 6 months.  We all know it, but you just say it every day like it's new information.

Obviously we (I) are not saying it often enough or loudly enough. Hundreds of thousands of deaths speak to that sentiment. Pushing herd immunity shows we haven’t said it often/loudly enough.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 06, 2020, 10:57:26 AM

nm

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on November 06, 2020, 11:11:37 AM

Quote from: Jockey on November 06, 2020, 10:55:40 AM

Obviously we (I) are not saying it often enough or loudly enough. Hundreds of thousands of deaths speak to that sentiment. Pushing herd immunity shows we haven’t said it often/loudly enough.

I think if your goal is what you say above, one more post on the MU Basketball COVID child board is not going to accomplish it. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on November 06, 2020, 11:12:45 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on November 06, 2020, 11:11:37 AM

I think if your goal is what you say above, one more post on the MU Basketball COVID child board is not going to accomplish it. 

EXACTLY.  WE'RE A BUNCH OF OLD MEN (AND WOMEN) YELLING AT THE CLOUDS HERE.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 06, 2020, 12:29:23 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on November 06, 2020, 09:32:08 AM

The current Nat Geo magazine is all about COVID.
They had a one page summary on a vaccine development.

That timeline seems far more realistic than the rosy predictions we have been hearing from the Administration.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on November 06, 2020, 12:56:10 PM

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-denmark-mink/denmark-has-found-214-people-infected-with-mink-related-coronavirus-state-serum-institute-idUSKBN27M11W

bad bad bad bad bad

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on November 06, 2020, 03:21:38 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 06, 2020, 12:29:23 PM

That timeline seems far more realistic than the rosy predictions we have been hearing from the Administration.

I think that if you ignore the White House, the timeline has been pretty consistent and probably fairly accurate.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 06, 2020, 06:30:44 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 06, 2020, 11:12:45 AM

EXACTLY.  WE'RE A BUNCH OF OLD MEN (AND WOMEN) YELLING AT THE CLOUDS HERE.

As Mick Jagger surely says, "Hey you kids, get off of my clouds!"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on November 06, 2020, 07:53:17 PM

https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/jpetpx/statemandated_stayathome_orders_and_public_mask/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Good news here that following the scientific recommendations has good results.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 06, 2020, 10:15:02 PM

Meanwhile, as he rants and raves about the great injustice being done to him, the president has presided over a fourth consecutive day of 1,000 American COVID-19 deaths on his watch.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/11/06/world/covid-19-coronavirus-updates?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20201106&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=43849&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa#united-states-records-over-1000-deaths-for-fourth-straight-day

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on November 06, 2020, 10:16:53 PM

Mark "We Aren't Going to Control the Virus" Meadows has caught the virus.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Marquette Fan on November 06, 2020, 10:25:24 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on November 06, 2020, 10:16:53 PM

Mark "We Aren't Going to Control the Virus" Meadows has caught the virus.

Yeah and how many people has he gotten sick now?  He's legendary for not wearing a mask.  And I'm guessing he won't quarantine now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on November 06, 2020, 10:38:57 PM

I'm not saying he's lying, but is there anyone that benefits more from having to quarantine from the president at this moment in time than Mark Meadows?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on November 07, 2020, 06:55:09 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on November 06, 2020, 10:16:53 PM

Mark "We Aren't Going to Control the Virus" Meadows has caught the virus.
[/quote


NM

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on November 07, 2020, 07:05:21 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on November 06, 2020, 10:16:53 PM

Mark "We Aren't Going to Control the Virus" Meadows has caught the virus.

Video of Meadows around hundreds of people election night in doors, East Room.

https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1324936135399919618?s=19

Also at least four others COVID-19 positive and counting. Attempts were made to try to keep it quiet.

https://twitter.com/JenniferJJacobs/status/1324936217465597952?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on November 07, 2020, 07:47:26 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on November 06, 2020, 10:16:53 PM

Mark "We Aren't Going to Control the Virus" Meadows has caught the virus.

So he spoke truth.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 07, 2020, 08:16:11 AM

Quote from: GB Warrior on November 06, 2020, 10:38:57 PM

I'm not saying he's lying, but is there anyone that benefits more from having to quarantine from the president at this moment in time than Mark Meadows?

Superb point.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 07, 2020, 08:50:22 AM

I was going to post in the MN thread, but since Mayo regularly sees patients from well beyond the state....

Mayo to restrict visitor access, elective care in Rochester as COVID cases spike

https://www.postbulletin.com/newsmd/health-news/6751968-Mayo-to-restrict-visitor-access-elective-care-in-Rochester-as-COVID-cases-spike

As the number of COVID-19 cases in Minnesota and elsewhere skyrocket, Mayo Clinic will restrict visitor access and reduce the number of elective procedures in Rochester starting Monday morning.

"... We will not be allowing adult patients who are hospitalized to have any visitors," wrote Mayo Clinic’s Ginger Plumbo on Friday. "Under very specific circumstances (i.e. patients dying, or birth of a child), a single adult visitor will be allowed. Pediatric patients will be allowed two parents or guardians."

This move comes on the heels of Mayo Clinic Health System's Southeast Minnesota Region implementation a no-visitor policy on Oct. 28 for all of its facilities, except those in Rochester.

On Friday afternoon, Mayo Clinic sent out this announcement about the increase in restrictions: “In response to increasing community spread of COVID-19, Mayo Clinic Hospital – Rochester will implement advanced visitor restrictions at Saint Marys and Methodist campuses, beginning at 8 a.m. CDT on Monday, Nov. 9.”

The statement from Mayo Clinic’s Ginger Plumbo added that other “proactive” steps are also being taken.

Mayo Clinic is “temporarily deferring some elective care so that we can care for the surge of urgent and emergent needs of our community, including the high influx of COVID-19-positive patients needing hospital care,” according to Plumbo.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 07, 2020, 11:03:46 AM

Woo-effen-hoo!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on November 07, 2020, 11:14:09 AM

The work can start in January. Let’s do it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on November 07, 2020, 11:24:43 AM

Metaphorically rolling up my sleeves.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on November 07, 2020, 12:49:08 PM

Quote from: BLM on November 07, 2020, 11:14:09 AM

The work can start in January. Let’s do it.

Work starts now. The leadership vacuum will never be more obvious than the next 74 days.

https://www.axios.com/biden-to-announce-covid-19-task-force-monday-23b353bd-863b-4e0f-bb64-c6da4a5758b2.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=organic&utm_content=1100 (https://www.axios.com/biden-to-announce-covid-19-task-force-monday-23b353bd-863b-4e0f-bb64-c6da4a5758b2.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=organic&utm_content=1100)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on November 07, 2020, 01:12:31 PM

Quote from: GB Warrior on November 07, 2020, 12:49:08 PM

Work starts now. The leadership vacuum will never be more obvious than the next 74 days.

https://www.axios.com/biden-to-announce-covid-19-task-force-monday-23b353bd-863b-4e0f-bb64-c6da4a5758b2.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=organic&utm_content=1100 (https://www.axios.com/biden-to-announce-covid-19-task-force-monday-23b353bd-863b-4e0f-bb64-c6da4a5758b2.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=organic&utm_content=1100)

Excellent!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 07, 2020, 01:14:15 PM

This is a perfect symbol of the way this administration has dealt with a virus that its leader admitted (though not to the American public) was 5 times more deadly "than even your strenuous flus."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/meadows-covid-white-house/2020/11/06/88847e40-20b3-11eb-90dd-abd0f7086a91_story.html?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F2c95f6b%2F5fa6e0a59d2fda0efb6027c6%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F31%2F74%2Fb3563592a6e9cbfdd26e210ad7669201

White House chief of staff Mark Meadows has tested positive for the coronavirus, and told others not to disclose his condition, according to an official with knowledge of the situation who spoke on the condition of anonymity. Meadows was at the White House early Wednesday as President Trump spoke about the election.

The diagnosis, first reported by Bloomberg News, comes a little more than a month after Trump and other members of his family and inner circle also tested positive for coronavirus. Two weeks later, at least five aides or advisers to Vice President Pence were infected.

The repeated infections within the White House underscore the attitude with which the administration has handled the coronavirus pandemic, which has killed at least 235,000 Americans since February. Trump and his allies, including Meadows, have frequently flouted public health guidelines and continued to hold large indoor gatherings where few people wear masks or socially distance.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 07, 2020, 02:16:42 PM

They. Just. Don't. Care.  :(

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on November 07, 2020, 02:26:38 PM

And it is trickling down.    People are willfully choosing to not wear masks.    Willing to take their chances.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 07, 2020, 03:15:42 PM

Quote from: tower912 on November 07, 2020, 02:26:38 PM

And it is trickling down.    People are willfully choosing to not wear masks.    Willing to take their chances.   

Unfortunately, even though the incoming administration will be pushing masks and modeling the behavior, I don't expect this to improve much.

Indeed, it probably won't improve much BECAUSE the new administration will be pushing masks and modeling the behavior. The deniers will really dig in, even if it means the virus drags out longer.

I hope I'm wrong about that, but I fear I'm not.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Marquette Fan on November 07, 2020, 03:16:38 PM

Does anyone know how many states are currently requiring a 14 day quarantine when you come to their state from Wisconsin?  I heard from my parents who live in Ohio that they had that requirement in place in early October and I'm guessing it's still in place but I'm not sure.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Marquette Fan on November 07, 2020, 03:20:03 PM

Quote from: MU82 on November 07, 2020, 03:15:42 PM

Unfortunately, even though the incoming administration will be pushing masks and modeling the behavior, I don't expect this to improve much.

Indeed, it probably won't improve much BECAUSE the new administration will be pushing masks and modeling the behavior. The deniers will really dig in, even if it means the virus drags out longer.

I hope I'm wrong about that, but I fear I'm not.

This is what I'm figuring will  happen also :(.  Things are pretty scary right now in Wisconsin I think...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 07, 2020, 03:58:46 PM

Quote from: MU82 on November 07, 2020, 03:15:42 PM

Unfortunately, even though the incoming administration will be pushing masks and modeling the behavior, I don't expect this to improve much.

Indeed, it probably won't improve much BECAUSE the new administration will be pushing masks and modeling the behavior. The deniers will really dig in, even if it means the virus drags out longer.

I hope I'm wrong about that, but I fear I'm not.

I hope you're wrong, too. But I suspect you are spot on.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 07, 2020, 04:05:35 PM

Quote from: Marquette Fan on November 07, 2020, 03:20:03 PM

This is what I'm figuring will  happen also :(.  Things are pretty scary right now in Wisconsin I think...

And indeed, the entire upper Midwest.

The Dakotas have been leading the surge since late summer with Iowa not far behind. Wisconsin started its surge a few weeks ago, and new cases are skyrocketing. And Minnesota started a few weeks after Wisconsin, with new cases not far behind.

It's getting ugly...and it hasn't really gotten all that cold yet.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 07, 2020, 04:24:35 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 07, 2020, 04:05:35 PM

And indeed, the entire upper Midwest.

The Dakotas have been leading the surge since late summer with Iowa not far behind. Wisconsin started its surge a few weeks ago, and new cases are skyrocketing. And Minnesota started a few weeks after Wisconsin, with new cases not far behind.

It's getting ugly...and it hasn't really gotten all that cold yet.

With Thanksgiving and Christmas just around the corner.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Marquette Fan on November 07, 2020, 04:28:44 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on November 07, 2020, 04:24:35 PM

With Thanksgiving and Christmas just around the corner.

That really scares me with schools - feel like it's going to spread so much after those holidays if the kids are attending in person.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on November 07, 2020, 04:48:42 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 07, 2020, 04:05:35 PM

And indeed, the entire upper Midwest.

The Dakotas have been leading the surge since late summer with Iowa not far behind. Wisconsin started its surge a few weeks ago, and new cases are skyrocketing. And Minnesota started a few weeks after Wisconsin, with new cases not far behind.

It's getting ugly...and it hasn't really gotten all that cold yet.

To give perspective on todays WI number. If the US were to have infections at the same rate, there would be over 400,000 cases a day.

It's better than ND though, which is running at a rate equivalent to 700,000 cases nationwide a day.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on November 07, 2020, 06:15:22 PM

Quote from: Marquette Fan on November 07, 2020, 04:28:44 PM

That really scares me with schools - feel like it's going to spread so much after those holidays if the kids are attending in person.

My daughter's high school just said remote only for the week after Thanksgiving.  To give some time and space from possible family gatherings.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 07, 2020, 06:15:26 PM

Quote from: forgetful on November 07, 2020, 04:48:42 PM

To give perspective on todays WI number. If the US were to have infections at the same rate, there would be over 400,000 cases a day.

It's better than ND though, which is running at a rate equivalent to 700,000 cases nationwide a day.

Anything is better than ND.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 07, 2020, 06:17:07 PM

Quote from: forgetful on November 07, 2020, 04:48:42 PM

To give perspective on todays WI number. If the US were to have infections at the same rate, there would be over 400,000 cases a day.

It's better than ND though, which is running at a rate equivalent to 700,000 cases nationwide a day.

Yeah. My daughter lives in downtown Fargo, the closest thing to a “progressive“ area you can find in North Dakota. When she goes out, almost nobody is wearing a mask. She doesn’t go out much these days.  :(

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on November 07, 2020, 11:44:33 PM

Speaking of ND, there was this tonight:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EmRomAYXEAIcj20?format=jpg&name=small)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on November 08, 2020, 05:46:11 AM

‘Plan’ to protect the vulnerable not showing promise. 

https://twitter.com/scottgottliebmd/status/1325287609690681344?s=21 (https://twitter.com/scottgottliebmd/status/1325287609690681344?s=21)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 08, 2020, 08:27:16 AM

Quote from: warriorchick on November 07, 2020, 11:44:33 PM

Speaking of ND, there was this tonight:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EmRomAYXEAIcj20?format=jpg&name=small)

On the one hand, that was disturbing. On the other, totally predictable -- and impossible to stop. Most in that group were 18-22 year olds. They are "kids." I wish they didn't do it, and I hope they don't take the infection back to more vulnerable loved ones, but I don't know how anybody could have stopped it ... except by not letting fans in the stadium in the first place.

During the week, Kelly talked about the likelihood of it happening, and urged his players to get off the field as quickly as possible if it did happen. Hopefully, none of them got infected.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 08, 2020, 08:57:41 AM

Quote from: MU82 on November 08, 2020, 08:27:16 AM

On the one hand, that was disturbing. On the other, totally predictable -- and impossible to stop. Most in that group were 18-22 year olds. They are "kids." I wish they didn't do it, and I hope they don't take the infection back to more vulnerable loved ones, but I don't know how anybody could have stopped it ... except by not letting fans in the stadium in the first place.

During the week, Kelly talked about the likelihood of it happening, and urged his players to get off the field as quickly as possible if it did happen. Hopefully, none of them got infected.

I’m having a hard time agreeing with the idea of college athletics being “essential” this winter

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 08, 2020, 09:00:53 AM

Quote from: MU82 on November 08, 2020, 08:27:16 AM

On the one hand, that was disturbing. On the other, totally predictable -- and impossible to stop. Most in that group were 18-22 year olds. They are "kids." I wish they didn't do it, and I hope they don't take the infection back to more vulnerable loved ones, but I don't know how anybody could have stopped it ... except by not letting fans in the stadium in the first place.

During the week, Kelly talked about the likelihood of it happening, and urged his players to get off the field as quickly as possible if it did happen. Hopefully, none of them got infected.

There is your answer. Short of stopping the games entirely, it's the only responsible thing to do.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on November 08, 2020, 09:40:45 AM

Why are there that many fans in the stadium in the first place? From behind the kickers on field goal attempts the stands looked like they had no limitations on capacity. Brian Kelly murdering more people to win a football game.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on November 08, 2020, 10:08:54 AM

I am for no fans at games.

The situation at the ND game was not ideal.

With that said, individual games vary.

ND only opens their games to students and either their parents or a family member, along with faculty and staff. No general public. In comparison to many schools, mask compliance has been signficantly higher at ND than many other places, and crowd size lower.

It of course only takes one person or situation. In the attached photo, it would appear everyone has a mask on except one person has it pulled down. That's all it takes.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 08, 2020, 10:46:21 AM

There were celebration scenes regarding the election all day yesterday that had hundreds or even thousands of people in the streets. Most of those I saw were wearing masks, but some weren't, and none had much social distancing.

That was understandable but unfortunate, too. Need to practice what they preach.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on November 08, 2020, 11:13:25 AM

January 5th Georgia Senate elections:

Voters have until December 7th to register to vote in Georgia. Early in person voting begins December 14th.
Absentee ballots will be mailed Nov 18th. Tell your friends.

20% higher votes in Presidential Election 2020. 5 million more.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 08, 2020, 11:42:35 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on November 08, 2020, 11:13:25 AM

January 5th Georgia Senate elections:

Voters have until December 7th to register to vote in Georgia. Early in person voting begins December 14th.
Absentee ballots will be mailed Nov 18th. Tell your friends.

20% higher votes in Presidential Election 2020. 5 million more.

Cool. What does this have to do with Covid?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on November 08, 2020, 01:32:52 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on November 08, 2020, 11:42:35 AM

Cool. What does this have to do with Covid?

It was obviously meant for the voting thread. But if more Georgia people see it in two threads, awesome. Wear your mask and physically distance while doing so. 👍

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on November 08, 2020, 06:18:48 PM

1,000+ deaths are becoming the daily norm. I'm worried it could be 1,500 + in just a couple weeks.

How do you get people to care?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 08, 2020, 06:24:14 PM

Quote from: Jockey on November 08, 2020, 06:18:48 PM

1,000+ deaths are becoming the daily norm. I'm worried it could be 1,500 + in just a couple weeks.

How do you get people to care?

Different leadership can't hurt.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 08, 2020, 07:04:30 PM

Quote from: MU82 on November 08, 2020, 06:24:14 PM

Different leadership can't hurt.

Said leadership doesn’t change for 70+ days. It’s going to be much worse by then.

And even then, half the country isn’t going to listen to him anyway.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 08, 2020, 07:56:38 PM

I mean look at this nightmare...

https://twitter.com/covid19tracking/status/1325613224004214784?s=21

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on November 08, 2020, 08:20:02 PM

Quote from: MU82 on November 08, 2020, 10:46:21 AM

There were celebration scenes regarding the election all day yesterday that had hundreds or even thousands of people in the streets. Most of those I saw were wearing masks, but some weren't, and none had much social distancing.

That was understandable but unfortunate, too. Need to practice what they preach.

I always think about what Jim Harbaugh (laughably) told his team: Be above reproach.

It's not a level playing field here, but there are groups that will glom onto a sliver of suggestion you don't care or it's just an act. Gotta be better.

Related to the current environment, I have no doubt that Covid is part of Trump's scorched earth strategy to make things as untenable for the new administration as possible, including forcing their hands with lockdowns. It's going to get much, much worse this fall/winter.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on November 08, 2020, 11:42:37 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on November 08, 2020, 07:56:38 PM

I mean look at this nightmare...

https://twitter.com/covid19tracking/status/1325613224004214784?s=21

Very ugly chart.

Deaths could get even worse than I expected. And I was not optimistic to start with.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on November 09, 2020, 06:47:32 AM

https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/09/covid-19-vaccine-from-pfizer-and-biontech-is-strongly-effective-early-data-from-large-trial-indicate/

As tower would say, keep sciencing

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on November 09, 2020, 07:21:52 AM

Should have patented that phrase.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on November 09, 2020, 10:44:09 AM

HUD Secretary Ben Carson tested positive for COVID-19.

He attended the White House Event Tuesday.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on November 09, 2020, 12:28:54 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on November 09, 2020, 10:44:09 AM

HUD Secretary Ben Carson tested positive for COVID-19.

He attended the White House Event Tuesday.

I pretend to care.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on November 09, 2020, 12:57:57 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on November 09, 2020, 10:44:09 AM

HUD Secretary Ben Carson tested positive for COVID-19.

He attended the White House Event Tuesday.

Twats and pears for Ben.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 09, 2020, 01:49:08 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on November 09, 2020, 10:44:09 AM

HUD Secretary Ben Carson tested positive for COVID-19.

He attended the White House Event Tuesday.

Continuing to set an example for POTUS' followers....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 09, 2020, 02:10:16 PM

Biden adds vaccine official fired by Trump to his Covid-19 panel

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/11/09/world/covid-19-coronavirus-live-updates?type=styln-live-updates&label=virus&index=0&action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage#biden-adds-vaccine-official-fired-by-trump-to-his-covid-19-panel

President-elect Joseph R. Biden Jr. named Dr. Rick Bright, a former top vaccine official in the Trump administration who submitted a whistle-blower complaint to Congress, as a member of a Covid-19 panel to advise him during the transition, officials announced Monday.

Dr. Bright, who was ousted as the head of a federal medical research agency, told lawmakers that officials in the government had failed to heed his warnings about acquiring masks and other supplies. He said that Americans died from the virus because of the Trump administration’s failure to act.

“Lives were endangered, and I believe lives were lost,” Dr. Bright, the former director of the Department of Health and Human Services’s Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority, told a House subcommittee in May.

Mr. Biden’s decision to put Dr. Bright on his advisory panel is intended to send a signal that the incoming administration intends to confront the virus — which is surging across the country — in a very different way than President Trump, who sought to largely push responsibility onto states.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on November 09, 2020, 02:12:48 PM

Gentlemen, it is important to care about Ben Carson.    Because you never know when the virus will come for you.     

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 09, 2020, 02:14:17 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on November 08, 2020, 07:04:30 PM

Said leadership doesn’t change for 70+ days. It’s going to be much worse by then.

And even then, half the country isn’t going to listen to him anyway.

As I said, new leadership can't hurt.

I fear that what GB Warrior said also will be true ... that the emperor, who already has proven that he simply no longer cares about the coronavirus -- and about how many Americans are infected with it and/or die from it -- will actively work to make things as bad as possible before Jan. 20.

Oh, and congrats to 'Murica. Hit the 10 million case mark today. Masks is for chumps, social distancing am for loozers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on November 09, 2020, 02:19:43 PM

Yeah I'm not really rooting for anybody to get the virus, whether it be idiots in the White House who ignore protocols set in place or football programs that suck so they can't win anymore.  Anyone getting the virus is a threat to continue spreading it throughout the country.  And that's the last thing we need right now, more spreading.

Heck, I'm really, really hoping that the MAGAs are right and that as soon as Trump is out of the office the hoax will be revealed as that.  No more covid on 1/21/21 will be the best thing that can happen.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on November 09, 2020, 02:36:14 PM

Quote from: tower912 on November 09, 2020, 02:12:48 PM

Gentlemen, it is important to care about Ben Carson.    Because you never know when the virus will come for you.   

It's hard to care for someone who refuses to care for himself.

I will continue to pray for the 1,000+ medical workers in Wisconsin who have contracted the virus; who have risked their lives to make the world a better place. Also, my thoughts are with you, with Chick's daughter, and with many others on this board as you risk exposure doing your job every day.

I won't waste a second of concern about people who dare the virus to attack them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on November 09, 2020, 02:38:49 PM

https://www.mlive.com/spartans/2020/11/michigan-states-tom-izzo-tests-positive-for-covid-19.html

Izzo tests positive.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on November 09, 2020, 02:51:02 PM

Quote from: tower912 on November 09, 2020, 02:12:48 PM

Gentlemen, it is important to care about Ben Carson.    Because you never know when the virus will come for you.   

My sincere hope is that everyone who contracts COVID makes a full and complete recovery.
My level of sympathy for the discomfort they experience while recovering varies.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on November 09, 2020, 02:52:49 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on November 09, 2020, 02:51:02 PM

My sincere hope is that everyone who contracts COVID makes a full and complete recovery.
My level of sympathy for the discomfort they experience while recovering varies.

Harvey Weinstein had it. Just saying...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 09, 2020, 03:04:26 PM

Quote from: tower912 on November 09, 2020, 02:12:48 PM

Gentlemen, it is important to care about Ben Carson.    Because you never know when the virus will come for you.   

Agree 100%.

When Trump had it, some of my real Trump-hating friends and relatives were wishing all kinds of terror for him. I just said, "I don't want him or anybody else to die from it. And I certainly don't want him to become a martyr. I want him to recover fully."

Glad he was at full strength -- the best he felt ever, he claimed -- in time to lose to Biden.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 09, 2020, 03:07:17 PM

Quote from: tower912 on November 09, 2020, 02:12:48 PM

Gentlemen, it is important to care about Ben Carson.    Because you never know when the virus will come for you.   

I wholeheartedly agree about the reason why we should be concerned: every single person who gets the virus expands the reach of this pandemic and makes it more likely that we or our loved ones get sick. So yes - I care that Ben Carson has it...because he makes it more likely that my family (or other innocent people who are taking precautions) might become sick.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 09, 2020, 03:12:51 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on November 09, 2020, 02:51:02 PM

My sincere hope is that everyone who contracts COVID makes a full and complete recovery.
My level of sympathy for the discomfort they experience while recovering varies.

Yep. 

Mostly though I'm this...

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/9fec0f807b1fe746ad0e43bee55296cd/tenor.gif?itemid=15616500)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on November 09, 2020, 06:14:33 PM

Yeah, well, I just tested positive.    So any schadenfreude for me is kind of out the window.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 09, 2020, 06:15:28 PM

Quote from: tower912 on November 09, 2020, 06:14:33 PM

Yeah, well, I just tested positive.    So any schadenfreude for me is kind of out the window.   

Very sorry to hear, tower.

Be well, my friend.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on November 09, 2020, 06:17:12 PM

Oh dear tower.
Praying you will recover fast.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on November 09, 2020, 06:20:54 PM

Mild cold symptoms right now.    Don't mock Ben Carson

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on November 09, 2020, 06:25:03 PM

Quote from: tower912 on November 09, 2020, 06:14:33 PM

Yeah, well, I just tested positive.    So any schadenfreude for me is kind of out the window.   

I hope you feel better soon.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on November 09, 2020, 06:27:13 PM

Good luck tower.  I hope it stays mild as a mild case. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on November 09, 2020, 06:35:05 PM

I am going to be spending even more time here.    Up your games.      ;)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 09, 2020, 06:46:02 PM

Quote from: tower912 on November 09, 2020, 06:35:05 PM

I am going to be spending even more time here.    Up your games.      ;)

I assume you'll be drafting up a bunch of post-game thread titles.

Seriously though, take care.  Don't hesitate to talk to a doctor if things seem to be progressing from annoyance to serious discomfort.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on November 09, 2020, 06:51:09 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on November 09, 2020, 06:46:02 PM

I assume you'll be drafting up a bunch of post-game thread titles.

Seriously though, take care.  Don't hesitate to talk to a doctor if things seem to be progressing from annoyance to serious discomfort.

OSO good.
Justin time.
Dawson's freak
Akanno get an 'AMEN'!
DJ PG OK

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 09, 2020, 06:51:56 PM

Quote from: tower912 on November 09, 2020, 06:20:54 PM

Don't mock Ben Carson

My personal take - it isn't mocking so much as it's venting anger at those who openly flout what science and the experts have been advocating for months.

And of all people in the Cabinet, Carson is in the best position to understand the consequences of Trump's position on masks and social distancing. By remaining silent and attending super spreader events at the White House, he is complicit in the extra suffering brought about by this Administration's policies. Could he have changed Trump's mind? Perhaps not...but we will never know.

Quite frankly, his silence, his complicity, made it more likely for YOU to get infected. And it makes it more likely for any of us here to get infected. So while I won't mock his illness, I will remain mad as hell that he didn't have the courage to stand up to the bully.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on November 09, 2020, 06:54:42 PM

Be well, Tower.

The entire Scoop world knows and appreciates the good works that you do.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on November 09, 2020, 07:01:57 PM

Quote from: Jockey on November 09, 2020, 06:54:42 PM

Be well, Tower.

The entire Scoop world knows and appreciates the good works that you do.

Not true.

Someone mocked him and said a firefighter wasn't a "real" profession. Crash maybe?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on November 09, 2020, 07:05:19 PM

Quote from: tower912 on November 09, 2020, 06:14:33 PM

Yeah, well, I just tested positive.    So any schadenfreude for me is kind of out the window.   

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=60311.msg1224354#msg1224354

There’s no question the health and safety of our moderators is our top priority. I would also add that your health and safety is kind of sort of just as important. We are meeting every day and are continually taking action to:

•   Establish policies that reduce the spread of the virus.
•   Washing hands before reading or posting on MUSCOOP and/or wearing rubber gloves.
•   Please do not sneeze while reading or typing on MUSCOOP.
•   Contagious MUSCOOP users will be limited to reading and posting in threads that have less than 50 views.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on November 09, 2020, 07:06:23 PM

Awesome.    Interestingly, the only time I have been maskless in a public building since March 17 was a trip to the dentist last Tuesday.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 09, 2020, 07:09:44 PM

Quote from: tower912 on November 09, 2020, 06:14:33 PM

Yeah, well, I just tested positive.    So any schadenfreude for me is kind of out the window.   

We're with you, our friend. Get well fast.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on November 09, 2020, 07:14:11 PM

Thank you for the kind words, everybody.    I love all of you, too.    Back to the main topic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on November 09, 2020, 07:19:51 PM

Quote from: tower912 on November 09, 2020, 07:14:11 PM

Thank you for the kind words, everybody.    I love all of you, too.    Back to the main topic.

Yeah seriously. Where are the mods.  Clearly this is a “close to home report”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on November 09, 2020, 07:58:35 PM

Quote from: tower912 on November 09, 2020, 06:14:33 PM

Yeah, well, I just tested positive.    So any schadenfreude for me is kind of out the window.   

Get well soon. You will be in my prayers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 09, 2020, 08:18:08 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on November 09, 2020, 07:05:19 PM

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=60311.msg1224354#msg1224354

There’s no question the health and safety of our moderators is our top priority. I would also add that your health and safety is kind of sort of just as important. We are meeting every day and are continually taking action to:

•   Establish policies that reduce the spread of the virus.
•   Washing hands before reading or posting on MUSCOOP and/or wearing rubber gloves.
•   Please do not sneeze while reading or typing on MUSCOOP.
•   Contagious MUSCOOP users will be limited to reading and posting in threads that have less than 50 views.

Wait - so I don’t have to wear a mask while I am posting?!?

Well, that’s embarrassing....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on November 09, 2020, 08:52:10 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on November 09, 2020, 07:01:57 PM

Not true.

Someone mocked him and said a firefighter wasn't a "real" profession. Crash maybe?

I agree with crash. Calling it just a profession is not doing it justice. It is so much more than that.
Thanks tower. Take care and get better soon.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 09, 2020, 09:04:10 PM

Meanwhile in North Dakota....

With North Dakota hospitals at 100% capacity, Burgum announces COVID-positive nurses can stay at work

https://www.inforum.com/newsmd/coronavirus/6753876-With-North-Dakota-hospitals-at-100-capacity-Burgum-announces-COVID-positive-nurses-can-stay-at-work?utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&utm_campaign=breaking

—————

And yet there is still no statewide mask mandate. Brilliant…

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on November 09, 2020, 10:22:51 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on November 09, 2020, 08:52:10 PM

I agree with crash. Calling it just a profession is not doing it justice. It is so much more than that.
Thanks tower. Take care and get better soon.

You don't want to be agreeing with keefe in this situation.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on November 10, 2020, 08:10:12 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 09, 2020, 09:04:10 PM

Meanwhile in North Dakota....

With North Dakota hospitals at 100% capacity, Burgum announces COVID-positive nurses can stay at work

https://www.inforum.com/newsmd/coronavirus/6753876-With-North-Dakota-hospitals-at-100-capacity-Burgum-announces-COVID-positive-nurses-can-stay-at-work?utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&utm_campaign=breaking

—————

And yet there is still no statewide mask mandate. Brilliant…

This should produce some interesting scientific data. Death rates should start accelerating.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on November 10, 2020, 08:19:47 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on November 09, 2020, 08:52:10 PM

I agree with crash. Calling it just a profession is not doing it justice. It is so much more than that.
Thanks tower. Take care and get better soon.

Dude Keefe was mocking Tower and Brew's professions. And questioning why they'd decide to get college degrees.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on November 10, 2020, 08:44:57 AM

Godspeed on a recovery Tower.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on November 10, 2020, 08:52:34 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on November 09, 2020, 10:22:51 PM

You don't want to be agreeing with keefe in this situation.

Re-read my post. I guess I should have put the first sentence in teal.
I said it was so much more than a profession.  Mine is a profession. I will never be in a position to risk my life to save others or even property.  I really didn't think I had to spell all that out. But then again, this is scoop, where Arby's is considered fine dining.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on November 10, 2020, 08:53:23 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on November 10, 2020, 08:52:34 AM

Re-read my post. I guess I should have put the first sentence in teal.
I said it was so much more than a profession.  Mine is a profession. I will never be in a position to risk my life to save others or even property.  I really didn't think I had to spell all that out. But then again, this is scoop, where Arby's is considered fine dining.

Wait, it isn't?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 10, 2020, 09:36:20 AM

New Research Published in The Lancet Psychiatry Finds COVID-19 Associated with Increased Risk for Developing Psychiatric Disorders

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/new-research-published-in-the-lancet-psychiatry-finds-covid-19-associated-with-increased-risk-for-developing-psychiatric-disorders-301169075.html

The research, conducted by the University of Oxford and published in The Lancet Psychiatry, found an increased risk of adverse mental health consequences in those diagnosed with COVID-19, and that having a psychiatric disorder increases the chances of getting COVID-19. This is the first large-scale evidence that COVID-19 survivors are at an increased risk of psychiatric disorders.

-----------------

Are there really still people out there who are only concerned with ICU admissions or deaths?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on November 10, 2020, 09:37:50 AM

Great.  I'm going to end up a republican NOJO.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on November 10, 2020, 09:44:45 AM

Quote from: tower912 on November 10, 2020, 09:37:50 AM

Great.  I'm going to end up a republican NOJO.   

It's side effects like this which is why we need to focus on more than the death rate!

But seriously Tower, get rested and get well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on November 10, 2020, 11:22:07 AM

Quote from: tower912 on November 10, 2020, 09:37:50 AM

Great.  I'm going to end up a republican NOJO.   

Well, we have "proof" in the previous post that you are crazy, so what else would you become?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on November 10, 2020, 11:39:06 AM

Mike Pence, head of the Coronavirus Pandemic Response team, will be on vacation this week and weekend in Sanibel Island, FL.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Billy Hoyle on November 10, 2020, 12:09:10 PM

Quote from: MU82 on November 08, 2020, 08:27:16 AM

On the one hand, that was disturbing. On the other, totally predictable -- and impossible to stop. Most in that group were 18-22 year olds. They are "kids." I wish they didn't do it, and I hope they don't take the infection back to more vulnerable loved ones, but I don't know how anybody could have stopped it ... except by not letting fans in the stadium in the first place.

During the week, Kelly talked about the likelihood of it happening, and urged his players to get off the field as quickly as possible if it did happen. Hopefully, none of them got infected.

It could have been stopped. I was in the Bucky student section when they beat Penn State go to the Rose Bowl. Once it became obvious they were going to win security swarmed the area - every aisle of the student section and in front of it. Nobody rushed the field. Here, we're talking about ND, a school that already shut down due to COVID and whose President tested positive after the ACB superspreader event, drawing the ire of students. This one is on the administration.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 10, 2020, 12:21:18 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on November 10, 2020, 11:39:06 AM

Mike Pence, head of the Coronavirus Pandemic Response team, will be on vacation this week and weekend in Sanibel Island, FL.

Which should tell you all you need to know about the legal challenges to the election.  Face it, the task force wasn't doing anything anyway.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 10, 2020, 12:42:40 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on November 10, 2020, 12:21:18 PM

Which should tell you all you need to know about the legal challenges to the election.  Face it, the task force wasn't doing anything anyway.

Yep. Between Trump golfing nonstop and Pence escaping to Sanibel, it's business as usual in this Administration. Nothing but bluster and hyperbole.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on November 10, 2020, 02:44:34 PM

Florida Man!

DeSantis’ latest hire for data team: Uber-driving, COVID-conspiracy sports blogger
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article247081417.html

When Gov. Ron DeSantis needed to hire a data analyst, his staff picked a little-known Ohio sports blogger and Uber driver whose only relevant experience is spreading harmful conspiracy theories about COVID-19 on the Internet.

In his own words, Kyle Lamb of Columbus, Ohio, has few qualifications for the job at the state’s Office of Policy and Budget, which pays $40,000 per year.

“Fact is, I’m not an ‘expert.’ I’m not a doctor, epidemiologist, virologist or scientist,” Lamb wrote on a website for a subscribers-only podcast he hosts about the coronavirus. “I also don’t need to be. Experts don’t have all the answers, and we’ve learned that the hard way.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on November 10, 2020, 03:34:10 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on November 10, 2020, 08:52:34 AM

Re-read my post. I guess I should have put the first sentence in teal.
I said it was so much more than a profession.  Mine is a profession. I will never be in a position to risk my life to save others or even property.  I really didn't think I had to spell all that out. But then again, this is scoop, where Arby's is considered fine dining.

Mea culpa

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 10, 2020, 05:15:19 PM

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 10, 2020, 12:09:10 PM

It could have been stopped. I was in the Bucky student section when they beat Penn State go to the Rose Bowl. Once it became obvious they were going to win security swarmed the area - every aisle of the student section and in front of it. Nobody rushed the field. Here, we're talking about ND, a school that already shut down due to COVID and whose President tested positive after the ACB superspreader event, drawing the ire of students. This one is on the administration.

Then that's what they should have done. Not doing so was a dereliction of duty. Then again, maybe their leaders were trapped in the previous half-century and figured, "We're Notre Dame. We don't storm the field when we win. We're supposed to win."

Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 10, 2020, 12:42:40 PM

Yep. Between Trump golfing nonstop and Pence escaping to Sanibel, it's business as usual in this Administration. Nothing but bluster and hyperbole.

Jared declared victory over the coronavirus in late-April, shortly after his sugar daddy twitted to "LIBERATE!" 3 states that were nowhere near having met the guidelines that Trump himself had promoted. Since then, he and his criminally negiligent crew have rarely even pretended to care about it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on November 10, 2020, 05:33:27 PM

This guy .. he's full of Arby's.

https://twitter.com/davidluhnow/status/1326296785413828609

"Bolsonaro, today: "I am sorry about the (Covid) deaths. I am .... But we are all going to die someday ... We have to stop being a country of sissies.""

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on November 10, 2020, 06:08:09 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on November 10, 2020, 03:34:10 PM

Mea culpa

No worries.  I am just thankful I didn't get the ban hammer for making fun of Arby's.  ;D

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 10, 2020, 06:17:04 PM

Desperate shortage of nurses in many states that are now getting overwhelmed by COVID-19 after pretending the virus didn't exist.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/11/10/world/covid-19-coronavirus-live-updates?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20201110&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=44168&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa#us-hospitalizations-reach-a-record-high-as-medical-facilities-are-under-strain

Covid-19 hospitalizations in the United States hit an all-time high of 61,964 on Tuesday, as the raging pandemic continued to shatter record after record and strain medical facilities.

The number of people hospitalized with the coronavirus, tallied by the Covid Tracking Project, has more than doubled since September, and now exceeds the peak reached early in the pandemic, when 59,940 hospitalized patients were reported on April 15. A second peak in the summer fell just short of matching that record, with 59,718 hospitalizations on July 23.

Those spikes in April and July lasted only a few days and quickly subsided, but as winter approaches experts do not expect that this time. New cases are setting records in much of the United States, and rates of hospitalizations and deaths are following them upward.

The United States surpassed 10 million known cases on Sunday, and is averaging more than 111,000 new cases a day, a record.

While the number of patients continues to climb, a shortage of nurses and other medical personnel is limiting the ability to add more hospital beds to care for them.

The critical staff shortage, especially in Western states that struggle to attract doctors and other medical workers even in the best of times, is causing growing alarm, and driving some places to take extraordinary measures.

Gov. Douglas J. Burgum of North Dakota, which has the worst infection and death rates per person in the country, announced on Monday that health care workers who have tested positive but have no symptoms could continue to work in hospitals and nursing homes under certain restrictions, including that they treat only Covid-19 patients.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s guidelines allow the use of asymptomatic personnel during severe staff shortages. Mr. Burgum said his state was about two or three weeks away from facing “severe constraints” in hospital capacity.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 10, 2020, 08:19:09 PM

Just a staggering number of people hospitalized, and yet newly diagnosed cases are still increasing daily. This is going to get much worse before it gets better.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on November 10, 2020, 10:07:44 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 10, 2020, 08:19:09 PM

Just a staggering number of people hospitalized, and yet newly diagnosed cases are still increasing daily. This is going to get much worse before it gets better.

Deaths follow hospitalizations.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on November 11, 2020, 03:25:18 AM

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 10, 2020, 12:09:10 PM

It could have been stopped. I was in the Bucky student section when they beat Penn State go to the Rose Bowl. Once it became obvious they were going to win security swarmed the area - every aisle of the student section and in front of it. Nobody rushed the field. Here, we're talking about ND, a school that already shut down due to COVID and whose President tested positive after the ACB superspreader event, drawing the ire of students. This one is on the administration.

You sat in the badger student section! Hell I once posted something on a Badger board and Chicos (after determining this through exhaustive detective work) must have sent out 10 posts attacking me for it. Wait till he hears about you.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 11, 2020, 08:03:50 AM

Well, we apparently are in the midst of a Sweden-like experiment right here in the U.S. of A. ...

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/site-services/newsletters/business-nl/article246877562.html?ac_cid=DM321173&ac_bid=-1473003205

Can Florida return to life as normal without containing the spread of the novel coronavirus?

The answer from Gov. Ron DeSantis is an emphatic yes. And, whether Floridians know it or not, he is pursuing a policy that will allow the virus to spread freely in the state until most of the population becomes infected — or is vaccinated with a yet-to-be obtained vaccine — while attempting to protect those thought to be most vulnerable.

Two months after a deadly summer surge and months before a realistic goal to begin rolling out a vaccine, the governor issued an order that opened up nearly every part of commerce, ended restrictions on restaurant dining, and barred local governments from enforcing mask mandates and social-distancing rules.

He has since spent more time and commanded more media attention to his “open-everything” policy than on encouraging people to prevent contagion. It is the same policy advanced by Scott Atlas, the controversial White House coronavirus adviser who does not have a background in infectious diseases.

It is also an approach that has made DeSantis the target of fierce criticism from Democrats who accuse him of pursuing a controversial and deadly “herd immunity” strategy, as well as from scientists, who usually use more diplomatic language.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on November 11, 2020, 08:13:28 AM

He’s doing less than Sweden, actually. 
And Dr.Murphy from Northwestern said on WGN a few weeks ago that ‘they cheat’ when asked about their numbers. Can’t trust them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on November 11, 2020, 08:19:37 AM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on November 11, 2020, 08:13:28 AM

He’s doing less than Sweden, actually. 
And Dr.Murphy from Northwestern said on WGN a few weeks ago that ‘they cheat’ when asked about their numbers. Can’t trust them.

Impossible. We have hired only the best and brightest to report those numbers!

Florida governor hires conspiracy theorist sports blogger and Uber driver to conduct data research into COVID-19 - despite history of tweets downplaying virus
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8936093/Uber-driver-crackpot-Ohio-sports-blogger-hired-Florida-Governors-office.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 11, 2020, 08:23:13 AM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on November 11, 2020, 08:13:28 AM

He’s doing less than Sweden, actually. 
And Dr.Murphy from Northwestern said on WGN a few weeks ago that ‘they cheat’ when asked about their numbers. Can’t trust them.

They are the China of America, and DeSantis is our Xi.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on November 11, 2020, 09:43:58 AM

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54895871

Ireland sees a significant decrease in the infection rate, in the middle of a six-week lockdown.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on November 11, 2020, 09:54:23 AM

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-03/sweden-adds-restrictions-amid-very-serious-covid-resurgence

And this is from a week ago, to dispel the notion that Sweden is doing no mitigation, and also discusses the current rise in infections. Not mentioned in the article is the actual limit of eight people to a group in restaurants.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 11, 2020, 10:31:31 AM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on November 11, 2020, 09:54:23 AM

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-03/sweden-adds-restrictions-amid-very-serious-covid-resurgence

And this is from a week ago, to dispel the notion that Sweden is doing no mitigation, and also discusses the current rise in infections. Not mentioned in the article is the actual limit of eight people to a group in restaurants.

I don't think anyone has said Sweden had done 'no mitigation.' But what they have done is minimal - certainly never a lockdown - and in many cases 'voluntary.' From the article:

At no point since the pandemic started has Sweden imposed a lockdown, relying instead on voluntary social distancing. That’s led to higher infection and mortality rates than in the rest of the Nordic region, but with few signs so far that Sweden has developed herd immunity.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on November 11, 2020, 11:25:06 AM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on November 11, 2020, 09:43:58 AM

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54895871

Ireland sees a significant decrease in the infection rate, in the middle of a six-week lockdown.

Can't happen here though. This is America. We demand our "freedoms".

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on November 11, 2020, 11:34:33 AM

Interestingly, apparently Sweden’s constitution guarantees freedom of movement, which it was felt prohibited a lockdown. Also, apparently it provides that the politicians do not direct the response, but all recommendations come from the relevant agency. They did move secondary schools and universities to remote learning.
And in some areas they are moving towards more restrictions now, as their numbers are climbing.
Not necessarily here, but I have seen in other internet postings the belief that Sweden took no action at all, and that everything is fine.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on November 11, 2020, 12:06:56 PM

CDC has added some info regarding the benefit of wearing a mask for the person wearing it when exposed to high risk environments.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/masking-science-sars-cov2.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 11, 2020, 01:55:59 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on November 11, 2020, 11:34:33 AM

Interestingly, apparently Sweden’s constitution guarantees freedom of movement, which it was felt prohibited a lockdown. Also, apparently it provides that the politicians do not direct the response, but all recommendations come from the relevant agency. They did move secondary schools and universities to remote learning.
And in some areas they are moving towards more restrictions now, as their numbers are climbing.
Not necessarily here, but I have seen in other internet postings the belief that Sweden took no action at all, and that everything is fine.

The US Supreme Court has long held that freedom of movement within the US (including travel between the states) is guaranteed by the 'Privileges and Immunities Clause' of our Constitution. Still, like most Constitutional guarantees, reasonable restrictions have been placed on that movement in extreme circumstances.

I'm not the least bit familiar with Swedish law, so I can't say how valid the Constitutional concern was, or whether a pandemic-related restriction would have been lawful. I would be concerned, however, if the guarantee is so absolute that officials couldn't respond to a worldwide health crisis without amending their Constitution. Anyhow, I guess that's a debate for Swedish legal scholars and public health officials.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on November 11, 2020, 05:15:34 PM

Total US #COVID cases

1 million to 2 M- 44 days
2 million to 3 M- 27 days
3 million to 4 M- 15 days
4 million to 5 M - 17 days
5 million to 6 M - 22 days
6 million to 7 M - 25 days
7 million to 8 M - 21 days
8 million to 9 M - 14 days
9 million to 10M - 10 days

You'd think 10m to 11 - 7 days
11 to 12 - 4 days
12 to 13 -2 days

So .. by about Thanksgiving, we're hitting a million a day.   On the bright side, 90 days of that and 100 million people .. a third of the country.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 11, 2020, 06:09:11 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on November 11, 2020, 05:15:34 PM

Total US #COVID cases

1 million to 2 M- 44 days
2 million to 3 M- 27 days
3 million to 4 M- 15 days
4 million to 5 M - 17 days
5 million to 6 M - 22 days
6 million to 7 M - 25 days
7 million to 8 M - 21 days
8 million to 9 M - 14 days
9 million to 10M - 10 days

You'd think 10m to 11 - 7 days
11 to 12 - 4 days
12 to 13 -2 days

So .. by about Thanksgiving, we're hitting a million a day.   On the bright side, 90 days of that and 100 million people .. a third of the country.

I saw a graph somewhere the other day that showed our current hospitalizations (approximately 60,000 hospitalized) which estimated that by Christmas we will have about 230,000 people hospitalized. Once it starts going up, it goes up fast.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on November 11, 2020, 07:50:36 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 11, 2020, 06:09:11 PM

I saw a graph somewhere the other day that showed our current hospitalizations (approximately 60,000 hospitalized) which estimated that by Christmas we will have about 230,000 people hospitalized. Once it starts going up, it goes up fast.

We have got to get this vaccine approved for our healthcare workers.  They will be the governor for successful care versus the worry about beds and ventilators in the spring.  Plus the mental toll has to be very high at this stage. 

I’m sitting here complaining about zoom fatigue and not eating in a restaurant.  I can’t even imagine how they feel.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on November 11, 2020, 10:31:23 PM

The line at Dodger Stadium for a COVID-19 test:

https://twitter.com/jayberger/status/1326707135158210560?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 12, 2020, 01:13:05 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on November 11, 2020, 05:15:34 PM

You'd think 10m to 11 - 7 days
11 to 12 - 4 days
12 to 13 -2 days

So .. by about Thanksgiving, we're hitting a million a day.   On the bright side, 90 days of that and 100 million people .. a third of the country.

(https://i.pinimg.com/474x/9b/f7/cd/9bf7cd211906e49861c3279e7a13bfd4.jpg)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on November 12, 2020, 06:23:31 AM

Here in indianapolis, our city hospital has stopped elective surgeries again due to needed resources for covid.

IU health (largest health system in the state) has sent emails detailing anticipated protocols for possibly shortly needed changes for covid necessity including stopping elective surgeries again.

So, things are looking up!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 12, 2020, 07:05:07 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on November 12, 2020, 06:23:31 AM

Here in indianapolis, our city hospital has stopped elective surgeries again due to needed resources for covid.

IU health (largest health system in the state) has sent emails detailing anticipated protocols for possibly shortly needed changes for covid necessity including stopping elective surgeries again.

So, things are looking up!

Turning the corner.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on November 12, 2020, 07:47:42 AM

Quote from: MU82 on November 12, 2020, 07:05:07 AM

Turning the corner.

There's just a cliff around that corner.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on November 12, 2020, 09:54:40 AM

The world views our situation as a humanitarian disaster, and it is only getting worse.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/12/health/us-coronavirus-thursday/index.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on November 12, 2020, 10:04:47 AM

The US just hit the most hospitalizations so far at 65k+. Still no federal action.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on November 12, 2020, 10:19:00 AM

Quote from: Skatastrophy on November 12, 2020, 10:04:47 AM

The US just hit the most hospitalizations so far at 65k+. Still no federal action.

This isn't a political statement. It is simply a fact.

Don't expect action soon. Pence, the head of the COVID Taskforce is on vacation in Florida. Trump is golfing. And the COVID Taskforce has been barred from communicating or coordinating with the president-elect and his team.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 12, 2020, 10:22:22 AM

Interesting NYTimes article about the 'hardest hit' areas by different measures. It mentions NYC, LA County, TX, and several places in the upper Midwest.

What Places Are Hardest Hit by the Coronavirus? It Depends on the Measure

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/12/us/coronavirus-crisis-united-states.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

Wisconsin also made the list as 'The state that has unraveled the fastest.'

The pandemic has worsened across the country over the last two months, but perhaps nowhere as quickly as in Wisconsin.

At the beginning of September, Wisconsin was averaging about 700 cases a day. By this week, it was averaging more than 6,000. Hospitals are packed and more than 300 deaths were reported in the state over the last week, a record. Last week, Wisconsin’s chief health officer quit, noting the enormous pressure on public health officials during the pandemic.

“It took us seven and a half months to get to 100,000 cases,” Gov. Tony Evers said at a news conference on Tuesday evening, after issuing an executive order advising residents to stay home. “But it only took 36 days to add another 100,000. The way things are going, it will take us only 20 days to reach another 100,000.”

Testing centers are overwhelmed, raising the risk of further spread as people who might otherwise learn they are infected delay isolating themselves.

“They told us, ‘Yeah, you should get tested, but we’re out of tests,’” said Tim Cigelske, 39, of Whitefish Bay, of a local testing site he called when his family grew sick. It required multiple phone calls, virtual doctor visits and four trips to testing sites over three days to get himself, his wife and their two children tested, Mr. Cigelske said.

All were positive for the virus.

---------------

So much 'winning.'

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 12, 2020, 10:28:12 AM

Quote from: forgetful on November 12, 2020, 09:54:40 AM

The world views our situation as a humanitarian disaster, and it is only getting worse.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/12/health/us-coronavirus-thursday/index.html

'


"Workers from Doctors Without Borders are trying to help the US get a grip on the pandemic..."

How embarrassing.  "The richest country in the world" is managing the pandemic like a third world country would.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 12, 2020, 10:29:06 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 12, 2020, 10:22:22 AM

Interesting NYTimes article about the 'hardest hit' areas by different measures. It mentions NYC, LA County, TX, and several places in the upper Midwest.

What Places Are Hardest Hit by the Coronavirus? It Depends on the Measure

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/12/us/coronavirus-crisis-united-states.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

Wisconsin also made the list as 'The state that has unraveled the fastest.'

The pandemic has worsened across the country over the last two months, but perhaps nowhere as quickly as in Wisconsin.

At the beginning of September, Wisconsin was averaging about 700 cases a day. By this week, it was averaging more than 6,000. Hospitals are packed and more than 300 deaths were reported in the state over the last week, a record. Last week, Wisconsin’s chief health officer quit, noting the enormous pressure on public health officials during the pandemic.

“It took us seven and a half months to get to 100,000 cases,” Gov. Tony Evers said at a news conference on Tuesday evening, after issuing an executive order advising residents to stay home. “But it only took 36 days to add another 100,000. The way things are going, it will take us only 20 days to reach another 100,000.”

Testing centers are overwhelmed, raising the risk of further spread as people who might otherwise learn they are infected delay isolating themselves.

“They told us, ‘Yeah, you should get tested, but we’re out of tests,’” said Tim Cigelske, 39, of Whitefish Bay, of a local testing site he called when his family grew sick. It required multiple phone calls, virtual doctor visits and four trips to testing sites over three days to get himself, his wife and their two children tested, Mr. Cigelske said.

All were positive for the virus.

---------------

So much 'winning.'

Hey but at least the bars are open!!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on November 12, 2020, 10:38:42 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 12, 2020, 10:22:22 AM

Interesting NYTimes article about the 'hardest hit' areas by different measures. It mentions NYC, LA County, TX, and several places in the upper Midwest.

What Places Are Hardest Hit by the Coronavirus? It Depends on the Measure

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/12/us/coronavirus-crisis-united-states.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

Wisconsin also made the list as 'The state that has unraveled the fastest.'

The pandemic has worsened across the country over the last two months, but perhaps nowhere as quickly as in Wisconsin.

At the beginning of September, Wisconsin was averaging about 700 cases a day. By this week, it was averaging more than 6,000. Hospitals are packed and more than 300 deaths were reported in the state over the last week, a record. Last week, Wisconsin’s chief health officer quit, noting the enormous pressure on public health officials during the pandemic.

“It took us seven and a half months to get to 100,000 cases,” Gov. Tony Evers said at a news conference on Tuesday evening, after issuing an executive order advising residents to stay home. “But it only took 36 days to add another 100,000. The way things are going, it will take us only 20 days to reach another 100,000.”

Testing centers are overwhelmed, raising the risk of further spread as people who might otherwise learn they are infected delay isolating themselves.

“They told us, ‘Yeah, you should get tested, but we’re out of tests,’” said Tim Cigelske, 39, of Whitefish Bay, of a local testing site he called when his family grew sick. It required multiple phone calls, virtual doctor visits and four trips to testing sites over three days to get himself, his wife and their two children tested, Mr. Cigelske said.

All were positive for the virus.

---------------

So much 'winning.'

One of the hardest hit areas currently, that doesn't seem to get a lot of press, is El Paso. As we speak, over 3% of the total population is currently infected. Morgues in parking lots. Medical staff essentially working around the clock, and the situation is only getting worse.

Local government tried to instill a shutdown, only to have it blocked by the Governor.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on November 12, 2020, 10:45:17 AM

Indianapolis/marion county going back significantly in their openings. Decreased bars, restaurants, gatherings. No in-person school.

Hospitals setting up protocols/policies for returning to no elective surgeries.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on November 12, 2020, 11:37:22 AM

Yet thousands of parents in Illinois boast about taking their kids to play sports in Indiana and Wisconsin, not to mention those who simply cross the border to dine in restaurants, etc, and then boast about that as well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 12, 2020, 01:12:12 PM

Quote from: forgetful on November 12, 2020, 10:38:42 AM

One of the hardest hit areas currently, that doesn't seem to get a lot of press, is El Paso. As we speak, over 3% of the total population is currently infected. Morgues in parking lots. Medical staff essentially working around the clock, and the situation is only getting worse.

Local government tried to instill a shutdown, only to have it blocked by the Governor.

I saw an interview with a doc from El Paso the other day. He seemed totally demoralized.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on November 12, 2020, 02:32:20 PM

Quote from: Skatastrophy on November 12, 2020, 10:04:47 AM

The US just hit the most hospitalizations so far at 65k+. Still no federal action.

Don’t expect any. Unless you consider ignoring the situation to be action.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on November 12, 2020, 02:35:32 PM

Corey Lewandowski positive

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on November 12, 2020, 02:38:31 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on November 12, 2020, 02:35:32 PM

Corey Lewandowski positive

It’s just amazing that the White House has had two super-spreader events.  Not surprising but amazing nonetheless.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on November 12, 2020, 02:53:07 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on November 12, 2020, 02:38:31 PM

It’s just amazing that the White House has had two super-spreader events.  Not surprising but amazing nonetheless.

They've got that herd mentality

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on November 12, 2020, 04:11:10 PM

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/525289-asymptomatic-covid-19-infected-nurses-allowed-to-stay-on-job-in-north

Jeez.

Also, "allowed"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Billy Hoyle on November 12, 2020, 05:19:57 PM

Ivy League just announced the cancellation of all winter sports. They've been out in front before...  :(

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on November 12, 2020, 06:10:02 PM

Playin' the hits from Spring:

https://twitter.com/AnaCabrera/status/1327002005148151814?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 12, 2020, 07:05:59 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on November 12, 2020, 06:10:02 PM

Playin' the hits from Spring:

https://twitter.com/AnaCabrera/status/1327002005148151814?s=19

Mind-boggling - actually, just plain stupid - that they would start cruises again, just when we are seeing community spread like we have never seen before. Wtf were they thinking?!?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on November 12, 2020, 07:11:30 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 12, 2020, 07:05:59 PM

Mind-boggling - actually, just plain stupid - that they would start cruises again, just when we are seeing community spread like we have never seen before. Wtf were they thinking?!?

$$$$

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on November 12, 2020, 07:36:41 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on November 12, 2020, 06:10:02 PM

Playin' the hits from Spring:

https://twitter.com/AnaCabrera/status/1327002005148151814?s=19

6 people total tested positive already out of 119 total. So not just an isolated set of cases.

This should doom the cruise industry for awhile.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on November 12, 2020, 09:01:14 PM

159,501

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 12, 2020, 09:51:03 PM

Re COVID-19, national leadership checked out in April.

They. Simply. Don't. Care.

Plus, they had to get on with using racial divisions as a political hammer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on November 12, 2020, 09:57:41 PM

We are likely going to end up with another testing crisis in the next couple weeks/months. Some of the key supplies for testing are dwindling.

Some of the reagents needed to do the assays, like pipette tips are in short supply. Really can't do the tests without them. I think we soon see them almost impossible to find.

At the very least, research labs will have to shut down to preserve the supply for testing, and even that may not be enough.

And realize these reagents are used throughout the medical and pharmaceutical research communities (e.g. drug and vaccine discovery and testing).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on November 12, 2020, 10:35:13 PM

need rapid at home tests to get approval.  This would decrease the burden on testing sites and keep people from passing it on.  Well that is if sick people stay home

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on November 12, 2020, 11:26:25 PM

Small wedding in Maine...

177 infected with COVID-19, 7 people dead.

https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-11-12/covid-19-spread-at-thanksgiving-holiday-gatherings-could-be-like-maine-wedding?_amp=true&__twitter_impression=true

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on November 12, 2020, 11:30:41 PM

Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito telling anyone and everyone who will listen tonight, to not listen to scientists, and that restrictions are too severe for COVID-19. (you can skip over the other parts where he persecute s gay people etc...)

https://twitter.com/mjs_DC/status/1327055797176692737?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on November 13, 2020, 07:07:09 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on November 12, 2020, 11:26:25 PM

Small wedding in Maine...

177 infected with COVID-19, 7 people dead.

https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-11-12/covid-19-spread-at-thanksgiving-holiday-gatherings-could-be-like-maine-wedding?_amp=true&__twitter_impression=true

I think you should have gone with this important part:

Only 55 people attended the Aug. 7 reception at the Big Moose Inn in Millinocket. But one of those guests arrived with a coronavirus infection. Over the next 38 days, the virus spread to 176 other people. Seven of them died.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on November 13, 2020, 09:24:18 AM

Quote from: injuryBug on November 12, 2020, 10:35:13 PM

need rapid at home tests to get approval.  This would decrease the burden on testing sites and keep people from passing it on.  Well that is if sick people stay home

This. I am not sure why there hasn't been more focus on this.
Lots of frequent, fast testing would make things safer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on November 13, 2020, 09:30:03 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on November 13, 2020, 09:24:18 AM

This. I am not sure why there hasn't been more focus on this.
Lots of frequent, fast testing would make things safer.

I agree, but i haven't seen anything that is the golden three.

1. Cheap
2. Fast
3. Effective

Usually, we only get two of the three.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on November 13, 2020, 09:35:12 AM

130 Secret Service Officers COVID-19 positive or in quarantine, due to Trump campaign travel.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/secret-service-coronavirus-outbreak/2020/11/13/610eebcc-2539-11eb-8672-c281c7a2c96e_story.html#click=https://t.co/r1edchtGH2

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 13, 2020, 09:46:37 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on November 13, 2020, 09:35:12 AM

130 Secret Service Officers COVID-19 positive or in quarantine, due to Trump campaign travel.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/secret-service-coronavirus-outbreak/2020/11/13/610eebcc-2539-11eb-8672-c281c7a2c96e_story.html#click=https://t.co/r1edchtGH2

No way Biden could have done better

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on November 13, 2020, 10:36:40 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on November 13, 2020, 09:24:18 AM

This. I am not sure why there hasn't been more focus on this.
Lots of frequent, fast testing would make things safer.

I have seen plenty of chatter about it lately but nothing tells the cost.  That would be the key is to keep the cost down. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 13, 2020, 10:44:05 AM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 13, 2020, 09:46:37 AM

No way Biden could have done better

Rico, you have to take into account how difficult it is to defend the indefensible.

It's pretty much impossible to defend Trump's response to the coronavirus. I mean, even if you don't want to admit that the U.S. response was a disaster and among the worst of any first-world nation, there's this: He personally, actively contributed to people getting infected and even dying by insisting upon holding super-spreader events - sometimes several per day.

Just in that one measure, Biden did "better" because he went out of his way to avoid hosting super-spreader events.

But when you worship the emperor, admitting that he was willingly infecting his own supporters, that he didn't give a rat's arse about anybody but himself and anything but his own political and personal fortunes ... that's difficult to ask of the blindly loyal.

So give 'em a break.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on November 13, 2020, 10:56:17 AM

Quote from: MU82 on November 13, 2020, 10:44:05 AM

Rico, you have to take into account how difficult it is to defend the indefensible.

It's pretty much impossible to defend Trump's response to the coronavirus. I mean, even if you don't want to admit that the U.S. response was a disaster and among the worst of any first-world nation, there's this: He personally, actively contributed to people getting infected and even dying by insisting upon holding super-spreader events - sometimes several per day.

Just in that one measure, Biden did "better" because he went out of his way to avoid hosting super-spreader events.

But when you worship the emperor, admitting that he was willingly infecting his own supporters, that he didn't give a rat's arse about anybody but himself and anything but his own political and personal fortunes ... that's difficult to ask of the blindly loyal.

So give 'em a break.

MU82 - I believe Rico meant to use teal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 13, 2020, 11:42:29 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on November 13, 2020, 10:56:17 AM

MU82 - I believe Rico meant to use teal.

Given Rico’s posting history, that was my assumption as well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 13, 2020, 11:53:17 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on November 13, 2020, 10:56:17 AM

MU82 - I believe Rico meant to use teal.

Which I knew; Rico and I often are kindred spirits. I simply enjoyed the set-up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on November 13, 2020, 05:37:41 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 13, 2020, 09:30:03 AM

I agree, but i haven't seen anything that is the golden three.

1. Cheap
2. Fast
3. Effective

Usually, we only get two of the three.

I guess that is what I was thinking. Put money and effort in developing this.
Or instead of spending trillions on stimulus, spend billions on testing to open up the economy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 13, 2020, 11:08:17 PM

Over 177,000 cases today.  :'(

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on November 14, 2020, 05:58:10 PM

https://www.yahoo.com/news/parents-tried-cover-superspreader-dance-230835336.html

We’re never getting past this.
Talk about parents not being parents.....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Marquette Fan on November 14, 2020, 06:33:47 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on November 14, 2020, 05:58:10 PM

https://www.yahoo.com/news/parents-tried-cover-superspreader-dance-230835336.html

We’re never getting past this.
Talk about parents not being parents.....

Wow - the irresponsible things parents are willing to do really scares me...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 14, 2020, 06:39:25 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on November 14, 2020, 05:58:10 PM

https://www.yahoo.com/news/parents-tried-cover-superspreader-dance-230835336.html

We’re never getting past this.
Talk about parents not being parents.....

Endangering the whole community, and creating an example for kids who will grow up believing that’s OK. Nice.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on November 14, 2020, 06:42:47 PM

At least they’re prepared for any pushback with their firearms.  ::)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on November 14, 2020, 08:50:22 PM

This is what Trumpism has wrought:

Replying to @MalloryMcMorrow
A friend of mine works as a contact tracer and her husband is an ICU doctor. She told me he saw a patient who had #COVID19, and badly. After she came off of a ventilator, he asked her how she thought she got the virus.

”I don’t have COVID,” she said, “It doesn’t exist.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 15, 2020, 08:48:49 AM

Understatement of the Day: Things aren't going well ...

More than 1,000 Americans are dying of the coronavirus every day on average, a 50% increase in the past month. Iowa, Minnesota, New Mexico, Tennessee and Wisconsin have recorded more deaths over the past seven days than in any other week of the pandemic. Twice this past week, there have been more than 1,400 deaths reported in a single day.

“It’s getting bad, and it’s potentially going to get a lot worse,” said Jennifer Nuzzo, a public health researcher and senior scholar at the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security. “The months ahead are looking quite horrifying.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on November 15, 2020, 09:13:56 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on November 14, 2020, 08:50:22 PM

This is what Trumpism has wrought:

Replying to @MalloryMcMorrow
A friend of mine works as a contact tracer and her husband is an ICU doctor. She told me he saw a patient who had #COVID19, and badly. After she came off of a ventilator, he asked her how she thought she got the virus.

”I don’t have COVID,” she said, “It doesn’t exist.”

So many Monty Python references come to mind.   The Black Knight.   The dead parrot.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on November 15, 2020, 03:26:44 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on November 14, 2020, 08:50:22 PM

This is what Trumpism has wrought:

Replying to @MalloryMcMorrow
A friend of mine works as a contact tracer and her husband is an ICU doctor. She told me he saw a patient who had #COVID19, and badly. After she came off of a ventilator, he asked her how she thought she got the virus.

”I don’t have COVID,” she said, “It doesn’t exist.”

From a SD ICU nurse:

I have a night off from the hospital. As I’m on my couch with my dog I can’t help but think of the Covid patients the last few days. The ones that stick out are those who still don’t believe the virus is real. The ones who scream at you for a magic medicine and that Joe Biden is Going to ruin the USA. All while gasping for breath on 100% Vapotherm. They tell you there must be another reason they are sick. They call you names and ask why you have to wear all that “stuff” because they don’t have COViD because it’s not real. Yes. This really happens. And I can’t stop thinking about it. These people really think this isn’t going to happen to them. And then they stop yelling at you when they get intubated. It’s like a ....ing horror movie that never ends. There’s no credits that roll. You just go back and do it all over again.

https://mobile.twitter.com/JodiDoering/status/1327771329555292162?s=20

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on November 15, 2020, 03:57:55 PM

Cult.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on November 15, 2020, 04:13:09 PM

All I can say is, OMG.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 15, 2020, 04:21:14 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on November 15, 2020, 03:26:44 PM

From a SD ICU nurse:

I have a night off from the hospital. As I’m on my couch with my dog I can’t help but think of the Covid patients the last few days. The ones that stick out are those who still don’t believe the virus is real. The ones who scream at you for a magic medicine and that Joe Biden is Going to ruin the USA. All while gasping for breath on 100% Vapotherm. They tell you there must be another reason they are sick. They call you names and ask why you have to wear all that “stuff” because they don’t have COViD because it’s not real. Yes. This really happens. And I can’t stop thinking about it. These people really think this isn’t going to happen to them. And then they stop yelling at you when they get intubated. It’s like a ....ing horror movie that never ends. There’s no credits that roll. You just go back and do it all over again.

https://mobile.twitter.com/JodiDoering/status/1327771329555292162?s=20

Stories like that make me sad for the kids and grandkids that lose family members to stupidity and arrogance. And I worry that those kids grow up just to be like their deceased family members, because they think it is ‘smart’ or ‘tough.’

And really sad for the healthcare workers that put their lives on the line, only to be berated by the very patients they are trying desperately to save.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 15, 2020, 05:00:04 PM

Another thing the ‘Covid deniers’ are contributing to, just when we need doctors the most...

Doctors Are Calling It Quits Under Stress of the Pandemic

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/15/health/Covid-doctors-nurses-quitting.html

“As an independent practice with no real connection to a big health system, it was awful,” Dr. McGregory said. At one point, she had only three surgical masks left and worried that she could no longer safely treat patients.

Families were also staying away, concerned about catching the virus. “I did some telemedicine, but it wasn’t enough volume to really replace what I was doing in the clinic,” she said.

After her husband found a new job in a different state, Dr. McGregory, 49, made the difficult decision to close her practice in August. “It was devastating,” she said. “That was my baby.”

Many other doctors are also calling it quits. Thousands of medical practices have closed during the pandemic, according to a July survey of 3,500 doctors by the Physicians Foundation, a nonprofit group. About 8 percent of the doctors reported closing their offices in recent months, which the foundation estimated could equal some 16,000 practices. Another 4 percent said they planned to shutter within the next year.

Other doctors and nurses are retiring early or leaving their jobs. Some worry about their own health because of age or a medical condition that puts them at high risk. Others stopped practicing during the worst of the outbreaks and don’t have the energy to start again. Some simply need a break from the toll that the pandemic has taken among their ranks and their patients.

Another analysis, from the Larry A. Green Center with the Primary Care Collaborative, a nonprofit group, found similar patterns. Nearly a fifth of primary care clinicians surveyed in September say someone in their practice plans to retire early or has already retired because of Covid-19, and 15 percent say someone has left or plans to leave the practice.

🙁

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 15, 2020, 05:11:32 PM

Well the problem with lack of ICU beds isn’t the lack of actual beds, it’s the lack of professional staff to take care of the patients in the beds. And it’s not as though you can train a bunch of nurses like you can contact tracers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on November 15, 2020, 05:51:38 PM

A thread of GOP officials around the country that were dismissive of COVID-19, later, became COVID-19 positive, some of whom, died.

https://twitter.com/Cleavon_MD/status/1327494611338608640?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on November 15, 2020, 08:43:19 PM

I truly don’t get it. I do not understand their attitude in the least.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 15, 2020, 09:47:37 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on November 15, 2020, 08:43:19 PM

I truly don’t get it. I do not understand their attitude in the least.

What don’t you believe? They would kill for their emperor, even if it means killing themselves.

Freedom!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 16, 2020, 06:59:50 AM

From the NYT:

The nation’s top infectious disease expert, Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, made it clear on Sunday that President Trump’s coronavirus task force has not been allowed to communicate with President-elect Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s transition team, a step that he said was critically important to curbing the pandemic.

Responding to a question from Jake Tapper, the host of the CNN program “State of the Union,” about President Trump’s refusal to allow a normal transition to the incoming administration, Dr. Fauci said a smooth “handing over of the information” was in the interest of protecting public health.

“It’s almost like passing a baton in a race, you don’t want to stop,” Dr. Fauci said, adding later, “Of course it would be better if we could start working with them.”

When Mr. Tapper asked how he thought history would remember the U.S. government’s response to the pandemic, Dr. Fauci replied, “Obviously it’s not going to be a good report, because of the extent of suffering that we’ve had.”

He added, however, that the answer was complex, and that many variables were involved in the failure, including the nation’s “flare of independence” and the fact that many Americans simply “don’t want to be told what to do.”

Asked when President Trump had last attended a meeting of the White House coronavirus task force, Dr. Fauci said it had been “several months.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on November 16, 2020, 09:11:16 AM

https://www.yahoo.com/news/tegnells-predecessor-blames-wishful-thinking-124542268.html

Sweden news.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 16, 2020, 09:40:42 AM

I have never been a fan of Boris Johnson's political views. But I will give credit where credit is due: since his bout with Covid, he has taken a much more responsible and scientifically sound view toward the pandemic. UK has been on a four-week lockdown to curb the fall surge. And now he is strictly following the quarantine rules (self-quarantining for 14 days due to exposure to a known positive case). He has learned over time, and is leading by example. I wish I could same for our double-down demagogue.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/16/uk/boris-johnson-covid-brexit-week-analysis-gbr-intl/index.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on November 16, 2020, 09:43:32 AM

This is really sad. South Dakota ER nurse talks about watching patients deny the existence of COVID while they are dying from COVID.

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/11/south-dakota-nurse-tells-horrific-stories-of-patients-near-and-still-denying-19-is-real/

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2020/11/16/south-dakota-nurse-intv-newday-vpx.cnn

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on November 16, 2020, 11:58:02 AM

With a presidential transition, and uncertainty in any relief efforts. One big program could impact many and make them homeless.

Right now, until Jan. 1st. There is some protection by a CDC issued decree, that can protect renters from eviction. That ends on Jan. 1st, before Biden will take office. Right now there are zero signs that Trump or the CDC will extend this. Meaning countless families may be thrown onto the streets in the Jan. 1st-21st window, with no remedy to undue the damage once Biden is in office.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on November 16, 2020, 01:01:16 PM

Quote from: forgetful on November 16, 2020, 11:58:02 AM

With a presidential transition, and uncertainty in any relief efforts. One big program could impact many and make them homeless.

Right now, until Jan. 1st. There is some protection by a CDC issued decree, that can protect renters from eviction. That ends on Jan. 1st, before Biden will take office. Right now there are zero signs that Trump or the CDC will extend this. Meaning countless families may be thrown onto the streets in the Jan. 1st-21st window, with no remedy to undue the damage once Biden is in office.

As I have said numerous times, cruelty IS the point.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on November 16, 2020, 01:30:53 PM

Words matter. Lies matter. Disinformation matters:


https://twitter.com/NewDay/status/1328319845012824065?s=19

https://twitter.com/jmhorp/status/1327697429500727298?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on November 16, 2020, 01:55:42 PM

Quote from: Jockey on November 16, 2020, 01:01:16 PM

As I have said numerous times, cruelty IS the point.

I have a Marquette friend who has worked at the State Department since graduation. 
He has worked for the admins of HW Bush, Clinton, W Bush, Obama.  All four had clear policy plans, goals and their way of doing things and all were professional, organized and very diplomatic. 
He's been split on leaving the last year or two because the Trump admin has no diplomatic policy plan on anything.  Pompeo is simply a rubber stamper.  The only clearly identified "policy" was literally to be cruel to immigrants, refugees or any foreign national person or organization and they would be looking over people shoulders making sure they were cruel.  This is literally how he described it.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on November 16, 2020, 01:58:19 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on November 16, 2020, 01:55:42 PM

I have a Marquette friend who has worked at the State Department since graduation. 
He has worked for the admins of HW Bush, Clinton, W Bush, Obama.  All four had clear policy plans, goals and their way of doing things and all were professional, organized and very diplomatic. 
He's been split on leaving the last year or two because the Trump admin has no diplomatic policy plan on anything.  Pompeo is simply a rubber stamper.  The only clearly identified "policy" was literally to be cruel to immigrants, refugees or any foreign national person or organization and they would be looking over people shoulders making sure they were cruel.  This is literally how he described it.   

That surprises nobody, and, incredibly sadly, excites way, way too many.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 16, 2020, 03:21:20 PM

Georgia Tech Event Risk Assessment Planning Tool.

https://covid19risk.biosci.gatech.edu

Great tool to estimate the Covid exposure risk of attending an event. Uses real time data to calculate the odds that someone at an event will be Covid positive, given a specific county and number of attendees. As an example, if you go to an event in Milwaukee County with 10 other people, there is a 41% chance that one of them will have Covid. Increase the event to 25 people, and there is a 72% chance one of them has Covid.

This obviously will vary with the personal habits of the people attending and other factors. Still, the numbers are pretty sobering.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 17, 2020, 01:12:05 PM

Breaking again from the absent emperor, Fauci is calling for a more centralized approach to tackling COVID-19, rather than a scattershot, state-by-state one.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/11/17/world/covid-19-coronavirus?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20201117&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=44716&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa#fauci-calls-for-a-uniform-approach-rather-than-a-disjointed-state-by-state-pandemic-response

Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, the government’s top infectious disease expert, said on Tuesday that the nation needed “a uniform approach” to the coronavirus pandemic, rather than “a disjointed” state-by-state response — a remark that echoed the views of President-elect Joseph R. Biden Jr. and contrasted sharply with President Trump’s coronavirus strategy.

Dr. Fauci, who has directed the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases since 1984, has been in Mr. Trump’s cross hairs on and off during the pandemic. Speaking to Andrew Ross Sorkin of The New York Times at a DealBook virtual conference, Dr. Fauci steered clear of mentioning Mr. Trump or Mr. Biden by name, and insisted he wants to “stay out of the political stuff.”

But his remarks suggested that his own thinking is far more in line with that of Mr. Biden, who has promised a far more muscular federal approach to the pandemic.

“We need some fundamental public health measures that everyone should be adhering to, not a disjointed, ‘One state says one thing, the other state says another thing,’” Dr. Fauci said.

He also made clear — without overtly saying so — that he believes Mr. Trump should allow the Biden transition team access to federal health officials.

“I’ve been through five transitions; I can say that transitions are extremely important to the smooth continuity of whatever you’re doing,” he said, adding, “We need to transition to the team that will be doing it, similar to how we’re doing it.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 17, 2020, 05:26:27 PM

Coronavirus: Five signs that show how bad El Paso's outbreak is

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54966876

Hospitals full, and field hospitals expected to fill up quickly; 10 mobile morgues filling with bodies; inmates moving dead bodies due to a shortage of staff; and a judge recently overturned a stay-at-home order.

In a more “normal“ news cycle, everybody would be focusing on the growing disaster in El Paso. The fact that they aren’t shows just how bad things are getting everywhere else.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on November 17, 2020, 05:29:17 PM

Chuck Grassley, 87, 2nd oldest Senator, is COVID-19 positive:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1248059?__twitter_impression=true

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 17, 2020, 05:37:47 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on November 17, 2020, 05:29:17 PM

Chuck Grassley, 87, 2nd oldest Senator, is COVID-19 positive:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1248059?__twitter_impression=true

Hope he recovers. His risk is awfully high given his age.

Even though I have not always agreed with his politics, Grassley has always struck me as someone who takes his role in serving the public very seriously. I also give him credit for being one of the GOP’s few outspoken advocates for wearing masks, even back in the summer.

https://www.radioiowa.com/2020/07/06/grassley-encourages-iowans-to-wear-a-face-mask-when-theyre-not-at-home/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on November 17, 2020, 06:19:58 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 17, 2020, 05:37:47 PM

Hope he recovers. His risk is awfully high given his age.

Even though I have not always agreed with his politics, Grassley has always struck me as someone who takes his role in serving the public very seriously. I also give him credit for being one of the GOP’s few outspoken advocates for wearing masks, even back in the summer.

https://www.radioiowa.com/2020/07/06/grassley-encourages-iowans-to-wear-a-face-mask-when-theyre-not-at-home/

Yep. He hasn’t missed a Senate vote since...1993.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on November 17, 2020, 09:34:59 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 12, 2020, 10:22:22 AM

“They told us, ‘Yeah, you should get tested, but we’re out of tests,’” said Tim Cigelske, 39, of Whitefish Bay, of a local testing site he called when his family grew sick. It required multiple phone calls, virtual doctor visits and four trips to testing sites over three days to get himself, his wife and their two children tested, Mr. Cigelske said.

All were positive for the virus.

No one recognized this guy's name?  He is the director of social media for Marquette.  Also  possibly the most diligent person I know regarding Covid-19 compliance.  He has no idea where he caught it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 17, 2020, 09:57:56 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on November 17, 2020, 09:34:59 PM

No one recognized this guy's name?  He is the director of social media for Marquette.  Also  possibly the most diligent person I know regarding Covid-19 compliance.  He has no idea where he caught it.

I had no idea who he was.

Cases like that are what makes this pandemic really scary. Federal, state and local officials have allowed the virus to spread so widely that people can catch it with just a moment of inattention at the wrong time. Or even without inattention if you are really unlucky, since masks aren’t 100% effective.

It’s a shame our elected officials let it get this bad.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on November 17, 2020, 10:07:51 PM

900 Mayo Clinic Staff have contracted COVID-19 within the past two weeks. Most contracted it in the community. The ones that contracted it at work, did so while eating in the break room (without a mask on).

https://www.twincities.com/2020/11/17/over-900-mayo-staff-have-gotten-covid-19-in-past-two-weeks/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 17, 2020, 10:08:04 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 17, 2020, 09:57:56 PM

Cases like that are what makes this pandemic really scary. Federal, state and local officials have allowed the virus to spread so widely that people can catch it with just a moment of inattention at the wrong time. Or even without inattention if you are really unlucky, since masks aren’t 100% effective.

I donno.  I've been on multiple flights (with middle seat open, and mask worn the entire time), lots of shopping, plenty of dining out (outdoors), a few road trips (including some crazy un-masked rest stops - or I was masked, but others weren't) and have not been infected yet (knock on wood).  But I have several friends that think sitting in an restaurant (indoors) without a mask on is OK because it's allowed.  That's crazy to me.  I would not do that.  Sure, you're' still following 6+ ft masked/unmasked rules but lots of folks seem to think it's OK.

I don't doubt that people have no idea where they get this thing, but they probably also assume that indoors without masks is fine as long as you're 6+ ft away from someone.

That goes back to your elected officials thing...this thing is airborne.  Lets just accept that and not do things that would allow you to catch/transmit it indoors.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Chili on November 17, 2020, 10:16:49 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on November 17, 2020, 09:34:59 PM

No one recognized this guy's name?  He is the director of social media for Marquette.  Also  possibly the most diligent person I know regarding Covid-19 compliance.  He has no idea where he caught it.

Probably while beer running.

All seriousness, hope Tim & his fam gets better quick.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 17, 2020, 10:38:01 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on November 17, 2020, 10:08:04 PM

I donno.  I've been on multiple flights (with middle seat open, and mask worn the entire time), lots of shopping, plenty of dining out (outdoors), a few road trips (including some crazy un-masked rest stops - or I was masked, but others weren't) and have not been infected yet (knock on wood).  But I have several friends that think sitting in an restaurant (indoors) without a mask on is OK because it's allowed.  That's crazy to me.  I would not do that.  Sure, you're' still following 6+ ft masked/unmasked rules but lots of folks seem to think it's OK.

I don't doubt that people have no idea where they get this thing, but they probably also assume that indoors without masks is fine as long as you're 6+ ft away from someone.

That goes back to your elected officials thing...this thing is airborne.  Lets just accept that and not do things that would allow you to catch/transmit it indoors.

That’s the thing with illnesses and risk factors: you can never get your risk level down to 0% even if you do all the ‘right things,’ and likewise, you may never get the illness even if you do all the ‘wrong things.’

People chain-smoke for decades and never get lung cancer, but there are people who never smoked a cigarette in their life and have no known exposure to radon, but die of it.

So yeah, it is frustrating. But that’s just how medicine works. Still, it’s no reason to stop doing the ‘right things,’ because you CAN minimize your risk.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on November 18, 2020, 08:09:01 AM

An interesting chart of cases by state over time.
https://dangoodspeed.com/covid/total-cases-since-june

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on November 18, 2020, 12:35:03 PM

COVID truthers keep trying to break into a Utah hospital to prove the pandemic is a hoax.
WTF is wrong with people?

https://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/utah-valley-hospital-dealing-with-ill-fated-attempts-of-conspiracy-theorists/article_d08ba93d-e25b-558e-a00e-c9891ac9970f.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on November 18, 2020, 12:39:29 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on November 18, 2020, 12:35:03 PM

COVID truthers keep trying to break into a Utah hospital to prove the pandemic is a hoax.
WTF is wrong with people?

https://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/utah-valley-hospital-dealing-with-ill-fated-attempts-of-conspiracy-theorists/article_d08ba93d-e25b-558e-a00e-c9891ac9970f.html

With stories as crazy as this coming out seemingly every day, I am now realizing how 70M+ people in this country actually felt Donald Trump was fit to run a country.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on November 18, 2020, 12:47:33 PM

Quote from: BLM on November 18, 2020, 12:39:29 PM

With stories as crazy as this coming out seemingly every day, I am now realizing how 70M+ people in this country actually felt Donald Trump was fit to run a country.

Q is gonna be comin' after you if you keep making comments like this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on November 18, 2020, 12:55:41 PM

F Q.   I am not on the mood for COVID deniers at the moment.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on November 18, 2020, 02:37:57 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on November 18, 2020, 12:35:03 PM

COVID truthers keep trying to break into a Utah hospital to prove the pandemic is a hoax.
WTF is wrong with people?

You know the answer to that

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 18, 2020, 03:07:57 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on November 18, 2020, 02:37:57 PM

You know the answer to that

Yep. True Believers just listening to the Dear Leader.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on November 18, 2020, 03:36:56 PM

Quote from: tower912 on November 18, 2020, 12:55:41 PM

F Q.   I am not on the mood for COVID deniers at the moment.

I have felt that way since March. The worst deniers are either in the White House or work for the White House.

To think that people here got upset when I called trump a killer. That was 100,000 deaths ago.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on November 18, 2020, 04:26:48 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on November 18, 2020, 12:35:03 PM

COVID truthers keep trying to break into a Utah hospital to prove the pandemic is a hoax.
WTF is wrong with people?

https://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/utah-valley-hospital-dealing-with-ill-fated-attempts-of-conspiracy-theorists/article_d08ba93d-e25b-558e-a00e-c9891ac9970f.html

Show them the morgue first and ask them if they want to go to the Covid wing.  Have them sign away their right to a bed at the hospital.  Then show them the suffering people in the Covid wing.

There is no way to otherwise convince these folks.

In case it isn't clear, I am not being serious about the field trip to the hospital.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on November 18, 2020, 04:31:06 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 18, 2020, 04:26:48 PM

Show them the morgue first and ask them if they want to go to the Covid wing.  Have them sign away their right to a bed at the hospital.  Then show them the suffering people in the Covid wing.

There is no way to otherwise convince these folks.

In case it isn't clear, I am not being serious about the field trip to the hospital.

Won't those people just say those people aren't suffering from covid because it doesn't really exist?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 18, 2020, 04:32:38 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 18, 2020, 04:26:48 PM

Show them the morgue first and ask them if they want to go to the Covid wing.  Have them sign away their right to a bed at the hospital.  Then show them the suffering people in the Covid wing.

There is no way to otherwise convince these folks.

In case it isn't clear, I am not being serious about the field trip to the hospital.

I doubt even that would work. They would simply say the people died (or were dying) of something else. Like the woman in South Dakota who used her last breaths to tell her nurse that Covid didn’t exist. :(

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on November 18, 2020, 04:40:28 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 18, 2020, 04:32:38 PM

I doubt even that would work. They would simply say the people died (or were dying) of something else. Like the woman in South Dakota who used her last breaths to tell her nurse that Covid didn’t exist. :(

All you can tell people like that is to Rest In Piss.

Nope, not a typo.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on November 18, 2020, 04:46:23 PM

83 people attended a wedding in Ohio last month. Most didn't wear masks.
32 of them got COVID, including the bride and groom (Xavier grads, d'oh) and three grandparents. Two hospitalized in serious condition, but fortunately no deaths so far.

https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-coronavirus-ohio-wedding-superspreader-bride-groom-emotional-toll-20201118-3qr4jzoeave4heoxth33vwfmqy-story.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on November 18, 2020, 04:56:23 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on November 18, 2020, 04:46:23 PM

83 people attended a wedding in Ohio last month. Most didn't wear masks.
32 of them got COVID, including the bride and groom (Xavier grads, d'oh) and three grandparents. Two hospitalized in serious condition, but fortunately no deaths so far.

https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-coronavirus-ohio-wedding-superspreader-bride-groom-emotional-toll-20201118-3qr4jzoeave4heoxth33vwfmqy-story.html

Well that was smart of them to cut down from 200 to 83, everyone knows the virus only shows up in number 84.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on November 18, 2020, 08:46:43 PM

“Tyson Foods ordered employees to report for work while supervisors privately wagered money on the number of workers who would be sickened by the deadly virus.”

https://iowacapitaldispatch.com/2020/11/18/lawsuit-tyson-managers-bet-money-on-how-many-workers-would-contract-covid-19/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Marquette Fan on November 18, 2020, 09:23:11 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on November 18, 2020, 04:56:23 PM

Well that was smart of them to cut down from 200 to 83, everyone knows the virus only shows up in number 84.

Yeah what makes anyone think that having 83 guests together like that right now is a good idea?  And to have Grandparents there too?  Wow...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on November 18, 2020, 10:35:33 PM

Eighty three.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 19, 2020, 06:16:59 AM

One quarter of a million dead Americans ... and counting.

Are we sick and tired of winning yet?

"It affects virtually nobody."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on November 19, 2020, 11:13:00 AM

Ben Carson update:

https://thehill.com/homenews/news/526670-ben-carson-says-he-used-unproven-covid-19-treatment-recommended-by-mypillow-ceo?amp&__twitter_impression=true

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on November 19, 2020, 01:07:57 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on November 19, 2020, 11:13:00 AM

Ben Carson update:

https://thehill.com/homenews/news/526670-ben-carson-says-he-used-unproven-covid-19-treatment-recommended-by-mypillow-ceo?amp&__twitter_impression=true

Maybe Ben should go explore that "grain silo" in the pyramids.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 19, 2020, 01:58:41 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on November 19, 2020, 11:13:00 AM

Ben Carson update:

https://thehill.com/homenews/news/526670-ben-carson-says-he-used-unproven-covid-19-treatment-recommended-by-mypillow-ceo?amp&__twitter_impression=true

A neurosurgeon taking medical advice from a pillow salesman?

You can't make this stuff up....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on November 19, 2020, 06:15:10 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 18, 2020, 04:26:48 PM

Show them the morgue first and ask them if they want to go to the Covid wing.  Have them sign away their right to a bed at the hospital.  Then show them the suffering people in the Covid wing.

There is no way to otherwise convince these folks.

In case it isn't clear, I am not being serious about the field trip to the hospital.

From a doctor friend in Ohio.

I got two emails from my employer today. The first congratulated me for 20 years of service! The second told me that I might get pulled off service as a radiologist and have to work outside of my speciality caring for Covid patients (which I haven't done in 20 yrs)

Yikes. Locally we have a friend who is an Obgyn. He is terrified he is going to be enlisted into the front lines here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on November 19, 2020, 06:40:10 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on November 19, 2020, 06:15:10 PM

From a doctor friend in Ohio.

I got two emails from my employer today. The first congratulated me for 20 years of service! The second told me that I might get pulled off service as a radiologist and have to work outside of my speciality caring for Covid patients (which I haven't done in 20 yrs)

Yikes. Locally we have a friend who is an Obgyn. He is terrified he is going to be enlisted into the front lines here.

Well apparently the White House believes Radiologists are most qualified for fighting this so it's makes sense to have him on the front lines

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on November 19, 2020, 07:26:27 PM

“When they stormed Normandy, they knew there were going to be casualties, there was gonna be risk. Two percent of the people that go to the emergency room go for COVID-19. But young people, they think it’s like cancer. They think they’re gonna die.”
-Lou Holtz in August

“I don’t have a lot of energy right now.” -COVID-19 positive Lou Holtz November.

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/6347615002?__twitter_impression=true

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 19, 2020, 09:50:38 PM

From the NYT regarding the 250K "milestone" being passed ...

In the face of this entirely anticipated crisis, Washington is doing very little. After so many months of this tragedy, there is still no coordinated federal response to the virus.

“The general strategy is abdication,” said Angela Rasmussen, a virologist affiliated with Georgetown University, who says it’s possible that as many as 300,000 more Americans could die of the virus before Inauguration Day, Jan. 20. “There are going to be a lot of unnecessary deaths, a lot of unnecessary cases of Covid that didn’t need to happen.”

There are no signs of any change in strategy coming from the current administration.

President Trump is more focused on litigating a settled election than combating the virus. Since Election Day, he’s held one public event — an update on his administration’s effort to develop and distribute a coronavirus vaccine. Other than traveling to his golf course, the president has remained holed up inside the White House.

At the same time, the government he leads has been offering mixed messages.

On Thursday, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommended that Americans avoid traveling and gathering with relatives for the Thanksgiving holiday. And later in the day the White House coronavirus task force held its first news conference in months, urging Americans to remain vigilant as they wait for a vaccine.

But on Wednesday, Kayleigh McEnany, the White House press secretary, called some local guidelines limiting Thanksgiving gatherings “Orwellian.”

States that have imposed fewer virus containment measures now have the worst outbreaks, according to a New York Times analysis.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 19, 2020, 10:54:31 PM

The current positivity rates are absolutely terrifying.

* Wyoming 93%
* South Dakota 56%
* Iowa 50%
* Idaho 44%
* Kansas 43%

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/states-ranked-by-covid-19-test-positivity-rates-july-14.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on November 19, 2020, 11:09:59 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 19, 2020, 10:54:31 PM

The current positivity rates are absolutely terrifying.

* Wyoming 93%
* South Dakota 56%
* Iowa 50%
* Idaho 44%
* Kansas 43%

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/states-ranked-by-covid-19-test-positivity-rates-july-14.html

San Francisco and South Dakota have similar populations. 14k cases San Francisco, 60k cases South Dakota.

Masks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on November 20, 2020, 12:05:45 AM

https://www.wyomingnews.com/coronavirus/wyo-gop-passes-resolution-opposing-state-of-emergency/article_3315f930-d713-53d2-a98c-86d0f2349adf.html

The central committee of the Wyoming GOP asks the governor to rescind his emergency declaration, averring  that Wyoming is not experiencing an high number of deaths from Covid.  The article states that they are currently fourth highest per capita in the country.
I looked at Wyoming news originally because the positivity rate listed above of 93% piqued my curiosity.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on November 20, 2020, 06:16:56 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 19, 2020, 10:54:31 PM

The current positivity rates are absolutely terrifying.

* Wyoming 93%
* South Dakota 56%
* Iowa 50%
* Idaho 44%
* Kansas 43%

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/states-ranked-by-covid-19-test-positivity-rates-july-14.html

Is this because there is a short supply of testing and testing reagents?  Has to be, right?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on November 20, 2020, 08:04:56 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 19, 2020, 10:54:31 PM

The current positivity rates are absolutely terrifying.

* Wyoming 93%
* South Dakota 56%
* Iowa 50%
* Idaho 44%
* Kansas 43%

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/states-ranked-by-covid-19-test-positivity-rates-july-14.html

That just means the people who have symptoms are getting tested and have it, hey.

People who don't have it aren't getting tested.  Nothing to see here, move along people.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 20, 2020, 08:20:05 AM

The numbers are on a relentless upward trajectory nationwide. Current 7-day averages compared to two weeks ago:

New cases: Up 73%
Hospitalizations: Up 50%
Deaths: Up 63%

And the continued increase in new cases means that hospitalizations and deaths will continue to climb at least well into December, and likely longer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 20, 2020, 09:13:52 AM

GOP Senator Rick Scott of FL tests positive...a week after speaking at a crowded, indoor, maskless rally in GA for GOP candidates in runoff elections.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/20/florida-sen-rick-scott-tests-positive-for-covid-s.html

#2020superspreaderevents

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 20, 2020, 09:34:45 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 20, 2020, 09:13:52 AM

GOP Senator Rick Scott of FL tests positive...a week after speaking at a crowded, indoor, maskless rally in GA for GOP candidates in runoff elections.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/20/florida-sen-rick-scott-tests-positive-for-covid-s.html

#2020superspreaderevents

Reckless disregard for human life.

Criminal negligence.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on November 20, 2020, 12:26:15 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 20, 2020, 08:20:05 AM

The numbers are on a relentless upward trajectory nationwide. Current 7-day averages compared to two weeks ago:

New cases: Up 73%
Hospitalizations: Up 50%
Deaths: Up 63%

And the continued increase in new cases means that hospitalizations and deaths will continue to climb at least well into December, and likely longer.

I fear by mid-January we could be seeing 4,000 deaths a day.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 20, 2020, 12:28:05 PM

Quote from: Jockey on November 20, 2020, 12:26:15 PM

I fear by mid-January we could be seeing 4,000 deaths a day.

Regrettably, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 20, 2020, 01:13:47 PM

Quote from: Jockey on November 20, 2020, 12:26:15 PM

I fear by mid-January we could be seeing 4,000 deaths a day.

Sadly, I don't think it's going to take that long.  3 weeks ago we just broke the 100k cases/day threshold and we're up to around 2k deaths per day.  We're just breaking 200k cases/day now.  Math...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on November 20, 2020, 01:23:54 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on November 19, 2020, 11:09:59 PM

San Francisco and South Dakota have similar populations. 14k cases San Francisco, 60k cases South Dakota.

Masks.

As of today, 1 in every 1200 residents of South Dakota are now...dead.

(Worldometers data)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on November 20, 2020, 01:49:22 PM

1 in 5 US hospitals expecting to face a critical staffing shortage in the next 7 days. Source: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-20/one-in-5-u-s-hospitals-face-staffing-crises-within-a-week?srnd=premium

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on November 20, 2020, 02:45:51 PM

Quote from: Jockey on November 20, 2020, 12:26:15 PM

I fear by mid-January we could be seeing 4,000 deaths a day.

Although I fear this also, I'm hopeful this will not be the case.

Not because I expect anyone to magically change their view on things, or change their behavior, but simply a probability based analysis. Eventually we maximize the number of contacts each infected individual can spread to based on current behavior. I actually think that plateau of maximized spread under current scenarios is not that far off.

I think we plateau around 200k-250k diagnosed cases daily, which I estimate will correlate with deaths at a maximum of 3k per day. We will likely then taper back down after the holidays as people start to have fewer contacts again.

Right now, a good part of the spike might be attributable to Halloween, that will get worse with Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Years, but still think it plateaus around the above range.

Still horrendous and something that was entirely preventable.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on November 20, 2020, 05:37:56 PM

DJT Jr. positive.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 20, 2020, 06:30:17 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on November 20, 2020, 05:37:56 PM

DJT Jr. positive.

Andrew Giuliani, too.

Can't make this shyte up!!!

Someday, somebody is gonna do a hell of a movie or Broadway play about 2020 in general and the pandemic in particular.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 20, 2020, 06:36:31 PM

If you want to know why South Dakota is one of the hottest of the hotspots right now:

Sanford Health CEO says he had virus, won't wear mask

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/11/20/sanford-health-ceo-says-he-had-virus-wont-wear-mask

The head of one of the largest regional health systems in the Midwest has told his employees that he has recovered from COVID-19 and is back in the office — without a mask.

Sanford Health's president and chief executive, Kelby Krabbenhoft, said in an email Wednesday that he believes he’s now immune to the disease for “at least seven months and perhaps years to come” and that he isn’t a threat to transmit it to anyone, so wearing a mask would be merely for show.

The email from Krabbenhoft, who is not a physician, comes as hospitals throughout the region, including in his own network, are struggling to keep up with some of the country’s worst surges of coronavirus patients. And it comes at a time when mask wearing remains a politicized issue in many states.

—————

Of course there is no data to back up his claims of immunity and inability to transmit the virus, but then again data doesn’t seem to matter anymore…

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 20, 2020, 06:46:28 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 20, 2020, 06:36:31 PM

If you want to know why South Dakota is one of the hottest of the hotspots right now:

Sanford Health CEO says he had virus, won't wear mask

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/11/20/sanford-health-ceo-says-he-had-virus-wont-wear-mask

The head of one of the largest regional health systems in the Midwest has told his employees that he has recovered from COVID-19 and is back in the office — without a mask.

Sanford Health's president and chief executive, Kelby Krabbenhoft, said in an email Wednesday that he believes he’s now immune to the disease for “at least seven months and perhaps years to come” and that he isn’t a threat to transmit it to anyone, so wearing a mask would be merely for show.

The email from Krabbenhoft, who is not a physician, comes as hospitals throughout the region, including in his own network, are struggling to keep up with some of the country’s worst surges of coronavirus patients. And it comes at a time when mask wearing remains a politicized issue in many states.

—————

Of course there is no data to back up his claims of immunity and inability to transmit the virus, but then again data doesn’t seem to matter anymore…

That's the father of the former Badger player, and current assistant coach.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on November 20, 2020, 08:40:11 PM

Quote from: MU82 on November 20, 2020, 06:30:17 PM

Andrew Giuliani, too.

Can't make this shyte up!!!

Someday, somebody is gonna do a hell of a movie or Broadway play about 2020 in general and the pandemic in particular.

And those that did not live through it will think it is all fiction

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 20, 2020, 10:06:30 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on November 20, 2020, 08:40:11 PM

And those that did not live through it will think it is all fiction

Yep, they’ll be watching and saying, “NOBODY can be that stupid. And there’s no way the president of the United States was that inept, cruel and self-centered.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 21, 2020, 09:16:38 AM

Do COVID restrictions make a difference in rural states? Let's look at some numbers:

Two rural states with GOP governors and very different COVID-19 results

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/11/20/npr-two-rural-states-with-gop-governors-and-very-different-covid-19-results

One of America's governors most skeptical about COVID-19 has been South Dakota's Kristi Noem. She's loudly refused to impose any shutdowns or a statewide mask mandate.

Noem's devotion to keeping her state open has made her a celebrity in the Republican Party. She campaigned for President Donald Trump in 17 states, and touted her own record along the way. "What I did in South Dakota is what we say Republicans always believe," Noem says. "We just did it. We just did it, and look at what is happening in our state." One of the things happening in South Dakota is an infection rate that's among the worst in the nation, at about 8,000 cases per 100,000 people.

In Vermont, another small, rural state with a Republican governor, Gov. Phil Scott has embraced safety measures, and the differences are pretty stark.

Like South Dakota, Vermont has fewer than 1 million residents, most of whom don't live in cities. It has about 500 cases per 100,000 people. That's the lowest rate in the nation. Scott has embraced statewide shutdowns and mandated masks. When he reopened the state's economy, he did it slowly.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on November 21, 2020, 09:42:12 AM

Amber Elliot, Director of St. Francois County, MO Health Department, steps down due to threats to her family and ongoing abuse. These were in response to her COVID-19 recommendations. She is the 12th MO Health Official to step down. In her own words:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/11/18/health-care-worker-threats-coronavirus/?arc404=true

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on November 21, 2020, 11:09:41 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on November 21, 2020, 09:42:12 AM

Amber Elliot, Director of St. Francois County, MO Health Department, steps down due to threats to her family and ongoing abuse. These were in response to her COVID-19 recommendations. She is the 12th MO Health Official to step down. In her own words:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/11/18/health-care-worker-threats-coronavirus/?arc404=true

All of these things can be traced back to one mad king.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on November 21, 2020, 11:34:35 AM

Quote from: forgetful on November 20, 2020, 02:45:51 PM

Although I fear this also, I'm hopeful this will not be the case.

Not because I expect anyone to magically change their view on things, or change their behavior, but simply a probability based analysis. Eventually we maximize the number of contacts each infected individual can spread to based on current behavior. I actually think that plateau of maximized spread under current scenarios is not that far off.

I think we plateau around 200k-250k diagnosed cases daily, which I estimate will correlate with deaths at a maximum of 3k per day. We will likely then taper back down after the holidays as people start to have fewer contacts again.

Right now, a good part of the spike might be attributable to Halloween, that will get worse with Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Years, but still think it plateaus around the above range.

Still horrendous and something that was entirely preventable.

I've thought about this as well. I just think it might be a little farther down the line yet.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 21, 2020, 12:22:49 PM

Quote from: Jockey on November 21, 2020, 11:09:41 AM

All of these things can be traced back to one mad king.

There were a lot of things out of his control, especially in the first couple of months, when so many folks (even experts like Fauci) didn't know exactly how to handle it.

But yes, when it all boils down to it, it really does go back to the Mad King -- especially since April 17, when he decided it was best to LIBERATE states even though they hadn't achieved the benchmarks he himself had just introduced 18 hours earlier. Ever since then, he could not have been worse "leader," and governors like Noem have just followed his deranged, dangerous path.

When the "leader" of the country refuses to wear a mask while visiting a mask factory in which there's a sign on the wall saying that everybody must wear a mask ... I mean, nothing better captures his incompetence and unwillingness to take a deadly pandemic seriously.

When that same "leader" mocks those who do wear masks, goes against his own advisers to hold super-spreader events at which just about nobody wears masks (RIP Herman Cain), puts his own supporters at risk by attending a fundraiser even though he knows he is contagious with a virus that he himself called "more deadly than even your strenuous flus," screams that the coronavirus "affects virtually nobody" even as it is killing 1,000 Americans a day ... I mean, it's not just indefensible, it's criminal negligence.

It's sad that there are millions of Americans who think his response to the coronavirus was just swell. Thankfully, more millions of Americans said, "Enough!" -- and despite his demented, desperate attempts to subvert our democracy, he will be gone Jan. 20.

Less than two months. Can't happen soon enough.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 21, 2020, 02:25:52 PM

For anyone who buys into the fiction that Trump cares about the American people....

President Trump makes brief appearance at Group of 20, but skips pandemic meeting.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/11/21/us/joe-biden-trump?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage#president-trump-makes-brief-appearance-at-group-of-20-but-skips-pandemic-meeting

On Saturday, Mr. Trump briefly participated in a virtual Group of 20 summit from the Situation Room. But he was not listed as a participant at a sideline event at the conference on “Pandemic Preparedness and Response.” Speakers at the event included Emmanuel Macron, the president of France, and Angela Merkel, Chancellor of Germany.

Instead, Mr. Trump continued the postelection weekend routine he has settled into. He sends out a tweet with a new, empty promise of “fraud” revelations and then heads to his Virginia golf course. It was the third weekend in a row that he has done so.

--------------

I would call this 'shocking'...but it isn't.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 21, 2020, 02:30:12 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 21, 2020, 02:25:52 PM

For anyone who buys into the fiction that Trump cares about the American people....

President Trump makes brief appearance at Group of 20, but skips pandemic meeting.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/11/21/us/joe-biden-trump?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage#president-trump-makes-brief-appearance-at-group-of-20-but-skips-pandemic-meeting

On Saturday, Mr. Trump briefly participated in a virtual Group of 20 summit from the Situation Room. But he was not listed as a participant at a sideline event at the conference on “Pandemic Preparedness and Response.” Speakers at the event included Emmanuel Macron, the president of France, and Angela Merkel, Chancellor of Germany.

Instead, Mr. Trump continued the postelection weekend routine he has settled into. He sends out a tweet with a new, empty promise of “fraud” revelations and then heads to his Virginia golf course. It was the third weekend in a row that he has done so.

--------------

I would call this 'shocking'...but it isn't.

Best President of my lifetime, aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on November 21, 2020, 05:31:07 PM

Now Peter Navarro is claiming that China "sent thousands of people" on "gleaming aircraft" to "seed the virus".

And people like rocket will slurp it down and beg for more.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on November 21, 2020, 06:09:30 PM

 :P

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on November 21, 2020, 09:36:10 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 21, 2020, 09:16:38 AM

Do COVID restrictions make a difference in rural states? Let's look at some numbers:

Two rural states with GOP governors and very different COVID-19 results

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/11/20/npr-two-rural-states-with-gop-governors-and-very-different-covid-19-results

One of America's governors most skeptical about COVID-19 has been South Dakota's Kristi Noem. She's loudly refused to impose any shutdowns or a statewide mask mandate.

Noem's devotion to keeping her state open has made her a celebrity in the Republican Party. She campaigned for President Donald Trump in 17 states, and touted her own record along the way. "What I did in South Dakota is what we say Republicans always believe," Noem says. "We just did it. We just did it, and look at what is happening in our state." One of the things happening in South Dakota is an infection rate that's among the worst in the nation, at about 8,000 cases per 100,000 people.

In Vermont, another small, rural state with a Republican governor, Gov. Phil Scott has embraced safety measures, and the differences are pretty stark.

Like South Dakota, Vermont has fewer than 1 million residents, most of whom don't live in cities. It has about 500 cases per 100,000 people. That's the lowest rate in the nation. Scott has embraced statewide shutdowns and mandated masks. When he reopened the state's economy, he did it slowly.

Northeastern Republicans vs everywhere else.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on November 21, 2020, 10:37:25 PM

The worst is yet to come - on both fronts.

Covid and democracy.  December and January will be brutal for both.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 24, 2020, 08:43:37 AM

Yet another reason to #keepsciencing:

Evidence Builds That an Early Mutation Made the Pandemic Harder to Stop

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/24/world/covid-mutation.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

As the coronavirus swept across the world, it picked up random alterations to its genetic sequence. Like meaningless typos in a script, most of those mutations made no difference in how the virus behaved.

But one mutation near the beginning of the pandemic did make a difference, multiple new findings suggest, helping the virus spread more easily from person to person and making the pandemic harder to stop.

The mutation, known as 614G, was first spotted in eastern China in January and then spread quickly throughout Europe and New York City. Within months, the variant took over much of the world, displacing other variants.

-------------

And before the deniers start saying "see, I told you scientists were wrong," this study does NOT change the fact that masks and social distancing are still your best tools in the daily fight against the spread.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 24, 2020, 02:47:40 PM

https://www.wsj.com/articles/cdc-finalizing-recommendation-to-shorten-covid-19-quarantines-11606247975

CDC is coming close to shortening quarantine time from 14 to 7-10 days with an exit test.  This is good news for obvious reasons.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on November 24, 2020, 09:31:11 PM

If there was only some sort of professional field that could advise us on epidemiological issues.  Then again burn through sounds so attractive. 

 https://thehill.com/policy/international/europe/527478-top-epidemiologist-says-sweden-has-no-signs-of-herd-immunity-curbing-coronavirus (https://thehill.com/policy/international/europe/527478-top-epidemiologist-says-sweden-has-no-signs-of-herd-immunity-curbing-coronavirus)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Marquette Fan on November 24, 2020, 10:13:17 PM

Millions still traveling for Thanksgiving - hate to see what the numbers are going to look like in the next couple weeks:

https://www.tmj4.com/news/coronavirus/millions-to-travel-for-thanksgiving-despite-covid-19-surge-and-warnings

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: SERocks on November 25, 2020, 08:04:14 AM

I predict a lot of very unhappy Christmases and New Years for a lot of families.   Thanksgiving is not worth it.... But alas, "you can't tell me what to do.". A lot of Americans truly are ugly....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 25, 2020, 09:02:44 AM

Our current growth rate in perspective: Previously, the highs for most cases in a month was in July and October, each with about 1.9 million cases. November is on track for more cases than both months combined, with a projected total of 4.5 million cases.

And although treatment has most definitely improved as we have learned more about treatment, some epidemiologists are projecting that we could exceed the spring peak as the healthcare system is overwhelmed by the volume.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/11/25/us/coronavirus-cases-rising.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

Some epidemiologists project that the number of deaths in the coming weeks could exceed the spring peak, in spite of improved treatment.

In the past week, the United States added an average of 173,000 new daily cases. If this growth pattern holds, the total number of cases reported for the full month of November is likely to hit 4.5 million. That would be more than double the number of any previous month.

With several days still left in the month, about 3.3 million people in the United States had already tested positive for the coronavirus as of Nov. 23.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on November 25, 2020, 10:43:49 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on November 24, 2020, 09:31:11 PM

If there was only some sort of professional field that could advise us on epidemiological issues.  Then again burn through sounds so attractive. 

 https://thehill.com/policy/international/europe/527478-top-epidemiologist-says-sweden-has-no-signs-of-herd-immunity-curbing-coronavirus (https://thehill.com/policy/international/europe/527478-top-epidemiologist-says-sweden-has-no-signs-of-herd-immunity-curbing-coronavirus)

ChicosWarriorDadArrow has a sad.

Well, that's not true: facts will never get in the way of his narrative.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on November 25, 2020, 11:58:02 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 20, 2020, 06:36:31 PM

If you want to know why South Dakota is one of the hottest of the hotspots right now:

Sanford Health CEO says he had virus, won't wear mask

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/11/20/sanford-health-ceo-says-he-had-virus-wont-wear-mask

The head of one of the largest regional health systems in the Midwest has told his employees that he has recovered from COVID-19 and is back in the office — without a mask.

Sanford Health's president and chief executive, Kelby Krabbenhoft, said in an email Wednesday that he believes he’s now immune to the disease for “at least seven months and perhaps years to come” and that he isn’t a threat to transmit it to anyone, so wearing a mask would be merely for show.

The email from Krabbenhoft, who is not a physician, comes as hospitals throughout the region, including in his own network, are struggling to keep up with some of the country’s worst surges of coronavirus patients. And it comes at a time when mask wearing remains a politicized issue in many states.

—————

Of course there is no data to back up his claims of immunity and inability to transmit the virus, but then again data doesn’t seem to matter anymore…

Kelby Krabbenhoft and Sanford Health have agreed to part ways, Sanford announced in a news release at about 5:45 p.m. yesterday.


In other words, he was fired!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on November 25, 2020, 12:01:20 PM

Quote from: SERocks on November 25, 2020, 08:04:14 AM

I predict a lot of very unhappy Christmases and New Years for a lot of families.   Thanksgiving is not worth it.... But alas, "you can't tell me what to do.". A lot of Americans truly are ugly....

And then we'll be stuck with more newspaper articles imploring "please don't make the same mistake we did".

Well, most of us (at least here on Scoop) won't make the same mistake simply because we are not as stupid as these people.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 25, 2020, 12:38:20 PM

Quote from: Jockey on November 25, 2020, 11:58:02 AM

Kelby Krabbenhoft and Sanford Health have agreed to part ways, Sanford announced in a news release at about 5:45 p.m. yesterday.

In other words, he was fired!

Glad to hear the adults in the room got the final say. I have a feeling some of the Sanford docs got the attention of the Board....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on November 26, 2020, 09:25:26 AM

Supreme Court votes 5-4 against New York's imposed COVID-19 restrictions for religious services Justice Amy Coney Barrett was a decisive vote:

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1331837982433812480?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 26, 2020, 09:31:23 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on November 26, 2020, 09:25:26 AM

Supreme Court votes 5-4 against New York's imposed COVID-19 restrictions for religious services Justice Amy Coney Barrett was a decisive vote:

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1331837982433812480?s=19

And so it begins.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 26, 2020, 09:35:41 AM

Quote from: MU82 on November 26, 2020, 09:31:23 AM

And so it begins.

Gorsuch has a point though.

“It is time — past time — to make plain that, while the pandemic poses many grave challenges, there is no world in which the Constitution tolerates color-coded executive edicts that reopen liquor stores and bike shops but shutter churches, synagogues and mosques,” Justice Gorsuch wrote.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 26, 2020, 10:19:14 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on November 26, 2020, 09:35:41 AM

Gorsuch has a point though.

“It is time — past time — to make plain that, while the pandemic poses many grave challenges, there is no world in which the Constitution tolerates color-coded executive edicts that reopen liquor stores and bike shops but shutter churches, synagogues and mosques,” Justice Gorsuch wrote.

The thing is, a bike shop or a liquor store might have 2 employees and a half-dozen customers, and hopefully all are wearing masks. When they talk, they can do so from a safe distance, at relatively low volume.

A full church service can have hundreds upon hundreds of parishioners. They are singing and chanting, often quite loudly, and there are handshakes and hugs and other personal interactions. I grew up going to a conservative synagogue, and that's the kind of stuff that every service included.

Now, talk about a Christmas service, which like Jewish High Holiday services usually draw big crowds, and you're talking about a super-spreader event.

I want to trust that churches will be responsible, will enforce social distancing and mask-wearing, but here in NC there has been evidence that the opposite has been true. Several churches here have housed deadly super-spreader events.

And, of course, those events don't just affect the church-goers. Parishioners leave church and go into the community. they go to their workplaces. Their kids go to school.

Maybe I missed it, but I'm not sure I've heard of a deadly super-spreader event taking place at the local Schwinn shop.

I'm gonna agree with Chief Justice Roberts on this one.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on November 26, 2020, 10:26:56 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on November 26, 2020, 09:35:41 AM

Gorsuch has a point though.

“It is time — past time — to make plain that, while the pandemic poses many grave challenges, there is no world in which the Constitution tolerates color-coded executive edicts that reopen liquor stores and bike shops but shutter churches, synagogues and mosques,” Justice Gorsuch wrote.

Other thoughts on the case:

Justice Sotomayor:

“Justices of this Court play a deadly game in second-guessing the expert judgment of health officials about the environments in which a contagious virus, now infecting a million Americans each week, spreads most easily.”

Justice Kagan:

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 26, 2020, 10:30:39 AM

Quote from: MU82 on November 26, 2020, 10:19:14 AM

The thing is, a bike shop or a liquor store might have 2 employees and a half-dozen customers, and hopefully all are wearing masks. When they talk, they can do so from a safe distance, at relatively low volume.

A full church service can have hundreds upon hundreds of parishioners. They are singing and chanting, often quite loudly, and there are handshakes and hugs and other personal interactions. I grew up going to a conservative synagogue, and that's the kind of stuff that every service included.

Now, talk about a Christmas service, which like Jewish High Holiday services usually draw big crowds, and you're talking about a super-spreader event.

I want to trust that churches will be responsible, will enforce social distancing and mask-wearing, but here in NC there has been evidence that the opposite has been true. Several churches here have housed deadly super-spreader events.

And, of course, those events don't just affect the church-goers. Parishioners leave church and go into the community. they go to their workplaces. Their kids go to school.

Maybe I missed it, but I'm not sure I've heard of a deadly super-spreader event taking place at the local Schwinn shop.

I'm gonna agree with Chief Justice Roberts on this one.

Last I checked, bike shops weren’t protected by the Constitution so the scrutiny cannot be the same.

Ultimately I fall to Kagans reasoning.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on November 26, 2020, 10:49:12 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on November 26, 2020, 09:35:41 AM

Gorsuch has a point though.

“It is time — past time — to make plain that, while the pandemic poses many grave challenges, there is no world in which the Constitution tolerates color-coded executive edicts that reopen liquor stores and bike shops but shutter churches, synagogues and mosques,” Justice Gorsuch wrote.

Thankfully you weren’t alive in WWII. You’d have lit up your house on the coast and coal rolled your truck burning up gas because of freedumb!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 26, 2020, 11:42:36 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on November 26, 2020, 10:30:39 AM

Last I checked, bike shops weren’t protected by the Constitution so the scrutiny cannot be the same.

Ultimately I fall to Kagans reasoning.

Then I think we're pretty much in agreement. “The Constitution does not forbid states from responding to public health crises through regulations that treat religious institutions equally or more favorably than comparable secular institutions, particularly when those regulations save lives. Because New York’s Covid-19 restrictions do just that, I respectfully dissent.”

I also agree with Roberts that "it is a significant matter to override determinations made by public health officials concerning what is necessary for public safety in the midst of a deadly pandemic," and that such a ruling was not prudent at this time.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on November 26, 2020, 12:06:39 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on November 26, 2020, 09:35:41 AM

Gorsuch has a point though.

“It is time — past time — to make plain that, while the pandemic poses many grave challenges, there is no world in which the Constitution tolerates color-coded executive edicts that reopen liquor stores and bike shops but shutter churches, synagogues and mosques,” Justice Gorsuch wrote.

Except he doesn't, because the edicts do not block anyones right to worship or express other constitutional rights.  They simply place restrictions on the number of people allowed to be in one location at a time.

And the churches, etc. are not singled out, because of any religious grounds. It was made explicitly clear that the restrictions were placed based on a scientific risk of spread. There is no data suggesting liquor stores or bike shops are high-spread risks, so no similar restrictions.

The decision ignored lengthy precedent on allowable restrictions oriented towards saving peoples lives during health emergencies. It also explicitly placed the right to worship in any and all ways, above the right to life.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 26, 2020, 02:03:26 PM

Quote from: forgetful on November 26, 2020, 12:06:39 PM

And the churches, etc. are not singled out, because of any religious grounds. It was made explicitly clear that the restrictions were placed based on a scientific risk of spread.

Too me, this is the key. The restrictions were based solely on a scientific risk assessment of the likelihood of spread based on the sizes of typical crowds and other relevant factors.

I think the dissent got it right. And it appears that Sotomayor wrote the relevant passage, with Kagan joining.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 27, 2020, 12:41:24 PM

Tests aplenty for "haves" but not for "have-nots."

(Disclosure: My wife, an RN who has never been tested for COVID-19, has asked similar questions to those in this article.)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/11/27/nurses-athletes-sports-coronavirus-tests/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F2d129f3%2F5fc12d5b9d2fda0efb75518d%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F8%2F71%2F5fc12d5b9d2fda0efb75518d

On her day off not long ago, emergency room nurse Jane Sandoval sat with her husband and watched her favorite NFL team, the San Francisco 49ers. She’s off every other Sunday, and even during the coronavirus pandemic, this is something of a ritual. Jane and Carlos watch, cheer, yell — just one couple’s method of escape.

“It makes people feel normal,” she says.

For Sandoval, though, it has become more and more difficult to enjoy as the season — and the pandemic — wears on. Early in the season, the 49ers’ Kyle Shanahan was one of five coaches fined for violating the league’s requirement that all sideline personnel wear face coverings. Jane noticed, even as coronavirus cases surged again in California and across the United States, that Levi’s Stadium was considering admitting fans to watch games.

But the hardest thing to ignore, Sandoval says, is that when it comes to coronavirus testing, this is a nation of haves and have-nots.

Among the haves are professional and college athletes, in particular those who play football. From Nov. 8 to 14, the NFL administered 43,148 tests to 7,856 players, coaches and employees. Major college football programs supply dozens of tests each day, an attempt — futile as it has been — to maintain health and prevent schedule interruptions. Major League Soccer administered nearly 5,000 tests last week, and Major League Baseball conducted some 170,000 tests during its truncated season.

Sandoval, meanwhile, is a 58-year-old front-line worker who regularly treats patients either suspected or confirmed to have been infected by the coronavirus. In eight months, she has never been tested. She says her employer, California Pacific Medical Center, refuses to provide testing for its medical staff even after possible exposure.

Watching sports, then, no longer represents an escape from reality for Sandoval. Instead, she says, it’s a signal of what the nation prioritizes.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: lawdog77 on November 27, 2020, 04:14:50 PM

Quote from: forgetful on November 26, 2020, 12:06:39 PM

There is no data suggesting liquor stores ..... are high-spread risks, so no similar restrictions.

You clearly must have missed election night and the run on buying champagne.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 27, 2020, 04:46:22 PM

What exponential growth looks like:

* it took 98 days from the first reported case to 1 million.
* it took 6 days from 12 million cases to 13 million.

https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-11-27-20-intl/h_8b80c7232519e60f3654a2e2cd4a9875

I am getting really tired of winning....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 28, 2020, 12:15:38 PM

But, you know, "It affects virtually nobody" ...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/11/27/covid-coronavirus-update-black-friday/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F2d1902e%2F5fc281259d2fda0efb76ccc1%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F12%2F60%2F5fc281259d2fda0efb76ccc1

As daily covid-19 deaths climb to levels not seen since early in the pandemic, nine states have hit one more grim marker: more than 1 in every 1,000 people dead of coronavirus-related causes.

The list reflects the far-reaching toll of the crisis, spanning early hot spots, Southern states hit hard in the summer and rural parts of the country with increasingly strained hospitals. And it is growing.

On Friday, South Dakota became the latest state to see at least one covid-19 death for every 1,000 residents, joining New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Louisiana, Rhode Island, Mississippi and North Dakota.

Red states, blue states, COVID don't give a damn where you live or who you voted for. Good thing our "leader" declared victory over the coronavirus on April 29 -- enabling him to do nothing (except try to subvert our democratic process, hold super-spreader events, play golf and fire off deranged twits) until a vaccine that might or might not work and that people might or might not be willing to get becomes widely available.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 28, 2020, 07:12:45 PM

This news headline caught my attention:
https://www.foxnews.com/world/more-people-died-of-suicide-in-japan-in-one-month-than-the-entire-coronavirus-pandemic

But reading it jostled some brain cells that Japan generally has a high suicide rate:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/622065/japan-suicide-number/

So certainly they will likely have a slightly higher suicide number than last year, and
1) it's prudent for the government to take action to help those in need
2) But mostly, damn, they're doing great controlling Covid!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on November 28, 2020, 10:59:39 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on November 28, 2020, 07:12:45 PM

This news headline caught my attention:
https://www.foxnews.com/world/more-people-died-of-suicide-in-japan-in-one-month-than-the-entire-coronavirus-pandemic

But reading it jostled some brain cells that Japan generally has a high suicide rate:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/622065/japan-suicide-number/

So certainly they will likely have a slightly higher suicide number than last year, and
1) it's prudent for the government to take action to help those in need
2) But mostly, damn, they're doing great controlling Covid!

so they've done well with covid, but worse with the suicides...a death is a death is a death.  i wouldn't be so quick to pat anyone on the back about any of this.  and gee, china sure knows how to handle a nasty virus though, eyn'a?  86,000+ cases and only an astounding(but still tragic) death number at 4600??  i wonder how their suicide rate has been?    come on man!! 


  Dr. Ben Sobel:
I thought you were in prison?

Jelly:
It would appear not.

Dr. Ben Sobel:
How'd you get out?

Jelly:
I had a new trial. Turns out that the evidence in the first trial was tainted.

Dr. Ben Sobel:
O, I see

Jelly:
Anyway, two of the witnesses decided not to testify and the third guy, well, he commited suicide.

Dr. Ben Sobel:
How?

Jelly:
He stabbed himself in the back four times and threw himself off a bridge.
 

    just wait until all the numbers start coming out here-suicides, drug overdoses, increases in drug and alcohol usages and relapse, deaths due to neglect(purposeful or not) of all other medical issues. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on November 28, 2020, 11:13:11 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on November 28, 2020, 10:59:39 PM

    just wait until all the numbers start coming out here-suicides, drug overdoses, increases in drug and alcohol usages and relapse, deaths due to neglect(purposeful or not) of all other medical issues.

I actually agree with you, rocket.

If the government would have done more to contain the virus and individuals would have done more to avoid spreading the virus, we would have had lower positivity rates and less hospitalizations  and therefore more resources to fight all the things that you list.

I'm sure you agree with that, right?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on November 29, 2020, 08:00:50 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on November 28, 2020, 11:13:11 PM

I actually agree with you, rocket.

If the government would have done more to contain the virus and individuals would have done more to avoid spreading the virus, we would have had lower positivity rates and less hospitalizations  and therefore more resources to fight all the things that you list.

I'm sure you agree with that, right?

  jesmu, as this virus was so new in many different ways coupled with the fact that the chinese did not play nice and it was an election year, no one really knew how to go about attacking this virus.  there was NO CONTAINING this virus.   

    what we did with this pandemic is monumental.  the speed at which our bio sciences are coming up with antidotes, vaccines, anti-virals, antibodies, etc. is a testament to our dedicated research.  in the past, the average time to get a vaccine out was multiples of years, not months.  but you are wrong about "containing" it.   this virus is not going to go away until most everyone gets it in some form or another, herd immunity is developed and/or the vaccines are effective and distributed in an efficient way.  everyone's body handles it differently, but very few (if any) were immune to it. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on November 29, 2020, 08:09:27 AM

There is a path to containing the virus and it’s been proven in many developed countries.  You won’t eradicate it until there is mass vaccination.  That is actually on the horizon and ups the payoff for containment.

‘There is nothing we can do’ is one of the biggest falsehood of the pandemic.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on November 29, 2020, 08:48:17 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on November 29, 2020, 08:00:50 AM

  jesmu, as this virus was so new in many different ways coupled with the fact that the chinese did not play nice and it was an election year, no one really knew how to go about attacking this virus.  there was NO CONTAINING this virus.   

    what we did with this pandemic is monumental.  the speed at which our bio sciences are coming up with antidotes, vaccines, anti-virals, antibodies, etc. is a testament to our dedicated research.  in the past, the average time to get a vaccine out was multiples of years, not months.  but you are wrong about "containing" it.   this virus is not going to go away until most everyone gets it in some form or another, herd immunity is developed and/or the vaccines are effective and distributed in an efficient way.  everyone's body handles it differently, but very few (if any) were immune to it. 

No containing, but telling your mouth-breathing cult to wear a mask in March would’ve help mitigate the fallout.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 29, 2020, 08:58:13 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on November 29, 2020, 08:00:50 AM

  jesmu, as this virus was so new in many different ways coupled with the fact that the chinese did not play nice and it was an election year, no one really knew how to go about attacking this virus.  there was NO CONTAINING this virus. 

Was there absolutely 100% containing it?  No.  But stop kidding yourself, the United States has done an awful job.

Look at countries like Australia.  They had eight new cases yesterday.  Their positivity rate since January is 0.3%.  They have had 924 total deaths.  And this is after they had a mini-outbreak during their winter that they managed well.  And their unemployment rate is about the same as the United States' and they now have packed sports stadiums and restaurants that are fully open.  While we are sliding backwards.

That's what a competent national response looks like.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HutchwasClutch on November 29, 2020, 09:13:00 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on November 29, 2020, 08:58:13 AM

Was there absolutely 100% containing it?  No.  But stop kidding yourself, the United States has done an awful job.

Look at countries like Australia.  They had eight new cases yesterday.  Their positivity rate since January is 0.3%.  They have had 924 total deaths.  And this is after they had a mini-outbreak during their winter that they managed well.  And their unemployment rate is about the same as the United States' and they now have packed sports stadiums and restaurants that are fully open.  While we are sliding backwards.

That's what a competent national response looks like.

And it’s an island country in the far South Pacific.  Islands off Australia’s coast didn’t have their first COVID case until a couple weeks ago.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on November 29, 2020, 09:21:16 AM

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on November 29, 2020, 09:13:00 AM

And it’s an island country in the far South Pacific.  Islands off Australia’s coast didn’t have their first COVID case until a couple weeks ago.

Australia and the continental US are roughly the same size in land mass.  So it’s not an ‘island’ in the sense of Taiwan as an example. 

They have advantages in border control but the virus didn’t come from Mexico/Canada.  So not sure that is relevant. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HutchwasClutch on November 29, 2020, 09:25:21 AM

Remember the narrative we should be following Europe’s response?
https://fortune.com/2020/08/05/covid-coronavirus-deaths-us-europe/amp/

And then now:

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/11/25/europe/europe-coronavirus-deaths-holidays-intl/index.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on November 29, 2020, 09:32:20 AM

Actually their response to the true second wave has been ok.  Not great but better than round one.  The French model for response to the second wave should be something we study (they kept the schools open)

No one is saying that outbreaks are not going to happen. In fact it’s inevitable.  Doing nothing when they happen though is really bad and sets us up for a terrible winter.  Hospitals are already filling up.  What is happening in the Dakotas is just terrible.  Their deaths per 100k could rival early hit areas when all said and done.  That is not great considering all the medical advances between now and then.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on November 29, 2020, 10:53:34 AM

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on November 29, 2020, 09:25:21 AM

Remember the narrative we should be following Europe’s response?
https://fortune.com/2020/08/05/covid-coronavirus-deaths-us-europe/amp/

And then now:

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/11/25/europe/europe-coronavirus-deaths-holidays-intl/index.html

And yet, they are still doing better than us. Despite having a much higher population density, Europes per capita cases in the current spike is still lower than in the US.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on November 29, 2020, 11:00:40 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on November 29, 2020, 08:09:27 AM

There is a path to containing the virus and it’s been proven in many developed countries.  You won’t eradicate it until there is mass vaccination.  That is actually on the horizon and ups the payoff for containment.

‘There is nothing we can do’ is one of the biggest falsehood of the pandemic.

Yup. The new right-wing talking point being dutifully repeated by the trained seals is that no one could possibly have done anything, despite verifiable facts to the contrary.

Facts and evidence don't matter and are conveniently ignored. The important part is to ensure Agent Orange and conservative dogma don't take the blame. "Liberate!"? Not their fault. Anti-maskers? Didn't have an impact. Keeping bars open? Nothing could be done you see.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 29, 2020, 11:03:45 AM

Fauci expecting 'a surge superimposed on the surge we are already in' due to Thanksgiving travel:

Fauci says Christmas and New Year’s restrictions will be necessary due to holiday coronavirus wave

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/29/coronavirus-fauci-says-christmas-and-new-years-restrictions-will-be-necessary.html

Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation’s top infectious disease expert, said on Sunday that the U.S. is heading into a difficult period of the coronavirus pandemic and said current restrictions and travel advisories will be necessary for the Christmas holiday season.

“What we expect, unfortunately, as we go for the next couple of weeks into December, is that we might see a surge superimposed on the surge we are already in,” Fauci said in an interview with NBC’s “Meet the Press”. “I don’t want to frighten people, except to say it is not too late to do something about this.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 29, 2020, 11:12:32 AM

Quote from: forgetful on November 29, 2020, 10:53:34 AM

And yet, they are still doing better than us. Despite having a much higher population density, Europes per capita cases in the current spike is still lower than in the US.

Yep - people keep ignoring population density when comparing the US and EU.

Communicable diseases are inherently more difficult to fight when hosts are more densely packed. According to population density data from The World Bank, population density in the EU (111 people/square km) is 3 times as great as in the US (36 people/sqaure km)...so the EU's Covid numbers should be dramatically worse than ours. The US would be a dramatic failure even if the numbers were comparable...so the fact that our numbers are even worse than the EU's puts us in a category of failure beyond comparison...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 29, 2020, 11:56:03 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on November 29, 2020, 08:00:50 AM

  jesmu, as this virus was so new in many different ways coupled with the fact that the chinese did not play nice and it was an election year, no one really knew how to go about attacking this virus.  there was NO CONTAINING this virus.   

    what we did with this pandemic is monumental.  the speed at which our bio sciences are coming up with antidotes, vaccines, anti-virals, antibodies, etc. is a testament to our dedicated research.  in the past, the average time to get a vaccine out was multiples of years, not months.  but you are wrong about "containing" it.   this virus is not going to go away until most everyone gets it in some form or another, herd immunity is developed and/or the vaccines are effective and distributed in an efficient way.  everyone's body handles it differently, but very few (if any) were immune to it.

Totally false narrative.

I and some others here have agreed that the first couple of months were problematic for numerous reasons. And although Trump shouldn't have lied about it non-stop, he mostly followed the experts' advice re lockdowns, masks, etc.

However, by mid-April, the science was clear. On April 16, your emperor announced guidelines based on benchmarks. On April 17, he encouraged mask-less, gun-toting, domestic-terrorist thugs to storm the capitol to "LIBERATE MICHIGAN!" even though that state was nowhere near having achieved the guidelines he himself had laid out a mere 18 hours earlier.

He also twitted out to LIBERATE MINNESOTA and LIBERATE VIRGINIA even though those states hadn't met his own guidelines. And then the free-for-all -- and total abdication of leadership and responsibility -- began.

By the end of April, Jared had claimed that his sugar daddy had scored a decisive victory over the coronavirus. Only about 250K Americans have died from it since.

Then came the mocking of people wearing masks, the demanding states to re-open fully despite experts saying otherwise, the deadly super-spreader rallies (RIP Herman Cain), the White House super-spreader events (almost RIP Trump), the claims that the virus "affects virtually nobody," the total and reckless disregard for human life.

You're right that it was "monumental," rocket -- a monumental eff-up, the biggest failure to keep Americans safe in the history of the presidency.

And ultimately, his horrific response cost him his job.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on November 29, 2020, 12:00:40 PM

If you never actually try, you can't say you failed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Marquette Fan on November 29, 2020, 12:05:33 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 29, 2020, 11:03:45 AM

Fauci expecting 'a surge superimposed on the surge we are already in' due to Thanksgiving travel:

Fauci says Christmas and New Year’s restrictions will be necessary due to holiday coronavirus wave

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/29/coronavirus-fauci-says-christmas-and-new-years-restrictions-will-be-necessary.html

Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation’s top infectious disease expert, said on Sunday that the U.S. is heading into a difficult period of the coronavirus pandemic and said current restrictions and travel advisories will be necessary for the Christmas holiday season.

“What we expect, unfortunately, as we go for the next couple of weeks into December, is that we might see a surge superimposed on the surge we are already in,” Fauci said in an interview with NBC’s “Meet the Press”. “I don’t want to frighten people, except to say it is not too late to do something about this.”

Telling people not to travel at Christmas might not have much of an impact though.  Tons of people ignored advisories about travel and gatherings at Thanksgiving and I expect the same thing at Christmas unfortunately.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 29, 2020, 01:23:27 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on November 28, 2020, 10:59:39 PM

so they've done well with covid, but worse with the suicides...a death is a death is a death.  i wouldn't be so quick to pat anyone on the back about any of this. 

Japan has done a great job with covid. Pat them on the back for that. They've done a horrible job with suicides every year. This year isn't much worse than average for them - if you happen to actually look at the numbers.

But hey, keep going on tangential rants. You be you.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 29, 2020, 02:25:16 PM

Quote from: Marquette Fan on November 29, 2020, 12:05:33 PM

Telling people not to travel at Christmas might not have much of an impact though.  Tons of people ignored advisories about travel and gatherings at Thanksgiving and I expect the same thing at Christmas unfortunately.

I suspect you are right...but I credit Fauci for at least trying. Not many in Washington are even doing that....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 30, 2020, 07:16:00 AM

An average of 1,462 daily COVID-19 deaths in America during the two weeks before Thanksgiving, which means the death toll has been one American dying every minute of every day.

And most epidemiologists and other virus experts think the toll will only rise after all the ill-advised holiday super-spreader gatherings.

What a nightmare, much of it self-inflicted.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on November 30, 2020, 09:41:53 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on November 29, 2020, 09:32:20 AM

Actually their response to the true second wave has been ok.  Not great but better than round one.  The French model for response to the second wave should be something we study (they kept the schools open)

Further to this, an article hit my morning news feed on this topic.  France is now rolling back the restrictions after 3-weeks because they were successful in checking the surge in cases.  While they are bound to deal with this 'more open'/'more closed' toggling until broad vaccinations come, its been proven again that some restrictions can check an epidemic surge in a relatively short period of time.  Also this is great because they didn't go full lockdown and kept the younger children in school.

https://www.axios.com/covid-france-lockdown-end-d930d5a0-78e3-4144-9b44-5e648f12c309.html (https://www.axios.com/covid-france-lockdown-end-d930d5a0-78e3-4144-9b44-5e648f12c309.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on November 30, 2020, 09:45:21 AM

I've been told nothing anyone does can change the outcome of this virus.  It has to be fake news.  This is all a hoax to get 45 out of office, and even that didn't work, as 45 won the election in a runaway, there is just massive voter fraud everywhere.

The best president of our lifetime has handled this thing perfectly.  China's fault.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: SERocks on November 30, 2020, 09:56:56 AM

Quote from: BLM on November 30, 2020, 09:45:21 AM

I've been told nothing anyone does can change the outcome of this virus.  It has to be fake news.  This is all a hoax to get 45 out of office, and even that didn't work, as 45 won the election in a runaway, there is just massive voter fraud everywhere.

The best president of our lifetime has handled this thing perfectly.  China's fault.

It is scary to me that people who are fellow citizens that I live with (USA) actually think this way.  But then again, average intelligence is not a high bar and remember 50% of the people are below average.  Scary.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on November 30, 2020, 09:59:39 AM

This is a good and optimistic message from Fauci.  All the Govs should be out replicating this. 

https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1333146966985908224?s=21 (https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1333146966985908224?s=21)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Johnny B on November 30, 2020, 11:48:39 AM

"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that"
-George Carlin

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 30, 2020, 01:39:16 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on November 30, 2020, 09:41:53 AM

Further to this, an article hit my morning news feed on this topic.  France is now rolling back the restrictions after 3-weeks because they were successful in checking the surge in cases.  While they are bound to deal with this 'more open'/'more closed' toggling until broad vaccinations come, its been proven again that some restrictions can check an epidemic surge in a relatively short period of time.  Also this is great because they didn't go full lockdown and kept the younger children in school.

https://www.axios.com/covid-france-lockdown-end-d930d5a0-78e3-4144-9b44-5e648f12c309.html (https://www.axios.com/covid-france-lockdown-end-d930d5a0-78e3-4144-9b44-5e648f12c309.html)

France (like most other countries) has done a much better job than the US at tamping down surges. From the article, a couple of the strategies for reopening caught my eye:

*The first stage out of lockdown will begin on Nov. 28, when nonessential businesses such as toy stores and bookshops will be allowed to reopen under strict health rules.

*Outdoor after-school activities will resume, while places of worship will reopen with no more than 30 people.

*Bars and restaurants are likely to remain closed until mid-January.

_________________________

So they are allowing some nonessential businesses to reopen under strict health rules...but they are keeping bars and restaurants closed for several more weeks. This recognizes the basic reality that you can require people to wear masks (and keep them on) at toy stores, book shops and such, but it isn't feasible to do so at bars and restaurants. The US needs to wake up to this reality, and make bars and restaurants take-out and delivery only.

And secondly, they are imposing a 30-person limit on houses of worship...much lower than most restrictions in the US. We need to impose strict limits on all gatherings, including those at churches.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on November 30, 2020, 01:55:50 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 30, 2020, 01:39:16 PM

France (like most other countries) has done a much better job than the US at tamping down surges. From the article, a couple of the strategies for reopening caught my eye:

*The first stage out of lockdown will begin on Nov. 28, when nonessential businesses such as toy stores and bookshops will be allowed to reopen under strict health rules.

*Outdoor after-school activities will resume, while places of worship will reopen with no more than 30 people.

*Bars and restaurants are likely to remain closed until mid-January.

_________________________

So they are allowing some nonessential businesses to reopen under strict health rules...but they are keeping bars and restaurants closed for several more weeks. This recognizes the basic reality that you can require people to wear masks (and keep them on) at toy stores, book shops and such, but it isn't feasible to do so at bars and restaurants. The US needs to wake up to this reality, and make bars and restaurants take-out and delivery only.

And secondly, they are imposing a 30-person limit on houses of worship...much lower than most restrictions in the US. We need to impose strict limits on all gatherings, including those at churches.

I disagree re Restaurants and bars. Those with patios and such should be fine. Correct? I mean I've been to three breweries this weekend here in PHX and I was at least 8 feet away from anyone and outside 100% of the time. I don't think you can lump places like that in with packed dive bars.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 30, 2020, 02:11:54 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on November 30, 2020, 01:55:50 PM

I disagree re Restaurants and bars. Those with patios and such should be fine. Correct? I mean I've been to three breweries this weekend here in PHX and I was at least 8 feet away from anyone and outside 100% of the time. I don't think you can lump places like that in with packed dive bars.

Perhaps theoretically. Were you required to wear a mask anytime you walked to or from your table (when you might come very close to others)?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on November 30, 2020, 02:16:53 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 30, 2020, 02:11:54 PM

Perhaps theoretically. Were you required to wear a mask anytime you walked to or from your table (when you might come very close to others)?

Yes masks were required when walking to your table.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on November 30, 2020, 02:28:34 PM

US coronavirus cases by month in 2020:

March: 186,200
April: 883,199
May: 723,166
June: 845,736
July: 1,926,970
August: 1,479,756
September: 1,215,901
October: 1,940,522
November: 4,252,822

(As of early this morning)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on November 30, 2020, 02:55:10 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on November 29, 2020, 08:00:50 AM

  jesmu, as this virus was so new in many different ways coupled with the fact that the chinese did not play nice and it was an election year, no one really knew how to go about attacking this virus.  there was NO CONTAINING this virus.   

    what we did with this pandemic is monumental.  the speed at which our bio sciences are coming up with antidotes, vaccines, anti-virals, antibodies, etc. is a testament to our dedicated research.  in the past, the average time to get a vaccine out was multiples of years, not months.  but you are wrong about "containing" it.   this virus is not going to go away until most everyone gets it in some form or another, herd immunity is developed and/or the vaccines are effective and distributed in an efficient way.  everyone's body handles it differently, but very few (if any) were immune to it.

I'm sure you agree then that Cuomo did as good a job as could be expected in NY?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 30, 2020, 03:32:20 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on November 30, 2020, 02:16:53 PM

Yes masks were required when walking to your table.

I think a well-enforced outdoor situation like that would pose minimal risk. Indoors would still be a problem because we know what ventilation systems can do with airborne particles and unmasked diners.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on November 30, 2020, 04:15:45 PM

Steps to stop the virus:

1. Restaurants and Bars, delivery or takeout only. Allow outdoor dining for parties of 6 or less, with social distancing of tables.

2. Those that can work from home should be strictly WFH.

3. With vaccines online, prioritize health care workers with patient contact first (no need to prioritize all heal care workers as many, (e.g. people working in billing) should be WFH (see item 2).

4. Next priority of vaccines should go to essential workers that must work in person.

There are 20-25M vaccines that can be administered in Dec. or early Jan. That is enough doses to cover all health care workers with patient contact, all nursing home staff or in home workers, with leftover to start vaccinate essential workers (e.g. food supply).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on November 30, 2020, 04:17:11 PM

Quote from: forgetful on November 30, 2020, 04:15:45 PM

Steps to stop the virus:

1. Restaurants and Bars, delivery or takeout only. Allow outdoor dining for parties of 6 or less, with social distancing of tables.

2. Those that can work from home should be strictly WFH.

3. With vaccines online, prioritize health care workers with patient contact first (no need to prioritize all heal care workers as many, (e.g. people working in billing) should be WFH (see item 2).

4. Next priority of vaccines should go to essential workers that must work in person.

There are 20-25M vaccines that can be administered in Dec. or early Jan. That is enough doses to cover all health care workers with patient contact, all nursing home staff or in home workers, with leftover to start vaccinate essential workers (e.g. food supply).

Take your commie thinking and get outta here. Not in this wonderful country will any of that be used.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 30, 2020, 05:17:14 PM

Quote from: forgetful on November 30, 2020, 04:15:45 PM

Steps to stop the virus:

1. Restaurants and Bars, delivery or takeout only. Allow outdoor dining for parties of 6 or less, with social distancing of tables.

2. Those that can work from home should be strictly WFH.

3. With vaccines online, prioritize health care workers with patient contact first (no need to prioritize all heal care workers as many, (e.g. people working in billing) should be WFH (see item 2).

4. Next priority of vaccines should go to essential workers that must work in person.

There are 20-25M vaccines that can be administered in Dec. or early Jan. That is enough doses to cover all health care workers with patient contact, all nursing home staff or in home workers, with leftover to start vaccinate essential workers (e.g. food supply).

Much of this is, or will be, happening. Unfortunately, the first one seems to be an impossible sell in most places. It has proven to work in France and other countries, but only a handful of states seem willing to do takeout/delivery/minimal outdoor restaurants and bars for more than a couple weeks here and there.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on November 30, 2020, 06:20:32 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on November 30, 2020, 02:28:34 PM

US coronavirus cases by month in 2020:

March: 186,200
April: 883,199
May: 723,166
June: 845,736
July: 1,926,970
August: 1,479,756
September: 1,215,901
October: 1,940,522
November: 4,252,822

(As of early this morning)

Rounding the corner.

Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 30, 2020, 03:32:20 PM

I think a well-enforced outdoor situation like that would pose minimal risk. Indoors would still be a problem because we know what ventilation systems can do with airborne particles and unmasked diners.

If people were responsible, outdoor dining with social distancing would be fine.  The problem is we know damn well people are not responsible enough to keep things safe.

It would be nice of the government would get working on a stimulus package.  Then some of these restaurants would have a chance at survival if their business suffered until mid 2021 when people could get vaccinated.  Instead, the government pretends there are no issues here and everyone suffers.

But hey, China's fault.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on November 30, 2020, 07:30:31 PM

Quote from: BLM on November 30, 2020, 06:20:32 PM

Rounding the corner.

If people were responsible, outdoor dining with social distancing would be fine.  The problem is we know damn well people are not responsible enough to keep things safe.

It would be nice of the government would get working on a stimulus package.  Then some of these restaurants would have a chance at survival if their business suffered until mid 2021 when people could get vaccinated.  Instead, the government pretends there are no issues here and everyone suffers.

But hey, China's fault.

We should be locking down social gathering/in person businesses. Government should be giving checks to those effected. Keep schools open.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on November 30, 2020, 08:20:02 PM

https://denver.cbslocal.com/video/4904068-longmont-leadership-weld-county-leadership-at-odds-over-covid-health-orders/

Colorado. Weld County refuses  to enforce the state’s code red restrictions barring things like indoor dining, arguing that people can be relied on to act responsibly ( as their cases and positivity rate keep going up). They have three ICU beds left, as of three days ago. Neighboring town wants to bar their residents from being transferred to hospitals in their town.
Report does make note that federal law prohibits this, but the mayor is irate at the prospect.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Marquette Fan on November 30, 2020, 08:27:00 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on November 30, 2020, 08:20:02 PM

https://denver.cbslocal.com/video/4904068-longmont-leadership-weld-county-leadership-at-odds-over-covid-health-orders/

Colorado. Weld County refuses  to enforce the state’s code red restrictions barring things like indoor dining, arguing that people can be relied on to act responsibly ( as their cases and positivity rate keep going up). They have three ICU beds left, as of three days ago. Neighboring town wants to bar their residents from being transferred to hospitals in their town.
Report does make note that federal law prohibits this, but the mayor is irate at the prospect.

Yeah I didn't think people could be counted on to act responsibly before the pandemic started and Covid has proven that to be very true unfortunately.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Marquette Fan on November 30, 2020, 08:37:19 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 29, 2020, 02:25:16 PM

I suspect you are right...but I credit Fauci for at least trying. Not many in Washington are even doing that....

Yes I see your point.  I'm just getting so down about the scary Covid numbers and the people who think Covid is no big deal.  Oh how I wish we could count on people to listen to advisories about travel and large gatherings at Christmas.  I won't be seeing my parents for Christmas in the first time ever in my many years on this Earth and haven't seen them in person since last Christmas but need to do this to try to keep them safe as my family poses too much of a risk to their health...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on November 30, 2020, 08:44:01 PM

Florida (governor) man!
DeSantis dismisses lockdowns, mask mandates as coronavirus cases spread
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/2020/11/30/gov-ron-desantis-mocks-lockdowns-mask-mandates-coronavirus-cases-spread/6467204002/


With Florida poised to notch its 1 millionth coronavirus case, Gov. Ron DeSantis held his first press conference in four weeks on Monday to declare that mask mandates and business closures in other states are wrong-headed and he alone has plotted the right course to combat the pandemic.

Offering blistering criticism of actions by governors in other states, epidemiologists and even the White House Coronavirus Task Force, DeSantis doubled-down on his long-held insistence that he won’t implement any measures to slow the spread of the virus among the general population.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 30, 2020, 08:59:38 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on November 30, 2020, 08:20:02 PM

https://denver.cbslocal.com/video/4904068-longmont-leadership-weld-county-leadership-at-odds-over-covid-health-orders/

Colorado. Weld County refuses  to enforce the state’s code red restrictions barring things like indoor dining, arguing that people can be relied on to act responsibly ( as their cases and positivity rate keep going up). They have three ICU beds left, as of three days ago. Neighboring town wants to bar their residents from being transferred to hospitals in their town.
Report does make note that federal law prohibits this, but the mayor is irate at the prospect.

It's important to note that weld county sits right beside boulder county.  That's like Idaho vs California, and Idaho residents needing to get sent to CA for healthcare.  So I get the ideological differences, but we all need to take care of each other.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 30, 2020, 09:19:55 PM

Quote from: Marquette Fan on November 30, 2020, 08:37:19 PM

Yes I see your point.  I'm just getting so down about the scary Covid numbers and the people who think Covid is no big deal.  Oh how I wish we could count on people to listen to advisories about travel and large gatherings at Christmas.  I won't be seeing my parents for Christmas in the first time ever in my many years on this Earth and haven't seen them in person since last Christmas but need to do this to try to keep them safe as my family poses too much of a risk to their health...

I hear you. The American public has really disappointed me too. I always knew there was a lot of ignorance and a pervasive ‘me first’ attitude, but the last several months have been just appalling.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on November 30, 2020, 09:41:20 PM

But the good news is “it affects virtually nobody.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 30, 2020, 09:50:54 PM

Quote from: MU82 on November 30, 2020, 09:41:20 PM

But the good news is “it affects virtually nobody.”

Disagreed.  My sister works for a senior care facility.  About 30% of their patients families don't need to worry about paying the facility in 2021!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on December 01, 2020, 05:11:07 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on November 30, 2020, 08:59:38 PM

It's important to note that weld county sits right beside boulder county.  That's like Idaho vs California, and Idaho residents needing to get sent to CA for healthcare.  So I get the ideological differences, but we all need to take care of each other.

Do we though? At what point do we force people to reap what they sow?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on December 01, 2020, 06:23:25 AM

I completely reject that philosophy.   Right now, the virus is everywhere    I caught it because we had two house fires in one night and I was mingling with civilians and other firefighters without a surgical mask for the only time in months.   Or I caught it at the dentist 36 hours later.   

This isn't some morality test.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on December 01, 2020, 07:08:52 AM

Quote from: tower912 on December 01, 2020, 06:23:25 AM

I completely reject that philosophy.   Right now, the virus is everywhere    I caught it because we had two house fires in one night and I was mingling with civilians and other firefighters without a surgical mask for the only time in months.   Or I caught it at the dentist 36 hours later.   

This isn't some morality test.

I understand that.

But why is it everywhere?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on December 01, 2020, 07:36:06 AM

I hope you really aren't advocating for this.  I understand the urge, but it is essentially advocating for the do nothing policy we have....which is a tragedy unfolding week by week.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on December 01, 2020, 07:37:28 AM

Because it is a very powerful, very communicable virus.    And Americans have yet to take the necessary steps to control it.   But that is not a reason to withhold care.


As a matter of fact, your argument is dangerously close to the argument Kushner made back in April.    The 'it is only happening in blue states so we won't do anything' argument.      And if any argument you make can be compared to an argument that anyone from the current administration made, it is a crap argument. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on December 01, 2020, 07:52:08 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on December 01, 2020, 05:11:07 AM

Do we though? At what point do we force people to reap what they sow?

That is a completely immoral point of view.

Furthermore, I know many people who have taken all sorts of precautions who have gotten this.  Let's not act like its just the morons who are the problem here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on December 01, 2020, 07:57:31 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 01, 2020, 07:52:08 AM

That is a completely immoral point of view.

Furthermore, I know many people who have taken all sorts of precautions who have gotten this.  Let's not act like its just the morons who are the problem here.

Sure. But there's a difference between those who take precautions vs the morons

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on December 01, 2020, 07:59:10 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on December 01, 2020, 07:57:31 AM

Sure. But there's a difference between those who take precautions va the morons

Well its not that black and white of course.  And "loving one's neighbor" does not have an "except for the morons" clause.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on December 01, 2020, 07:59:33 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on December 01, 2020, 07:36:06 AM

I hope you really aren't advocating for this.  I understand the urge, but it is essentially advocating for the do nothing policy we have....which is a tragedy unfolding week by week.

That's not what I was suggesting.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on December 01, 2020, 08:00:54 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 01, 2020, 07:59:10 AM

Well its not that black and white of course.  And "loving one's neighbor" does not have an "except for the morons" clause.

Of course.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on December 01, 2020, 08:28:34 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on December 01, 2020, 07:59:33 AM

That's not what I was suggesting.

Then you should be more clear, because on its face your suggestion does not sound great from a policy or moral/ethical standpoint. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Lens on December 01, 2020, 08:34:22 AM

Quote from: tower912 on December 01, 2020, 06:23:25 AM

I completely reject that philosophy.   Right now, the virus is everywhere    I caught it because we had two house fires in one night and I was mingling with civilians and other firefighters without a surgical mask for the only time in months.   Or I caught it at the dentist 36 hours later.   

This isn't some morality test.

Curious about hose civilian interactions.  Were you wearing any mask?  Were they?  I can certainly appreciate that given your circumstances at a house fire things get chaotic and you would be exposed for periods. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on December 01, 2020, 08:58:07 AM

Quote from: tower912 on December 01, 2020, 07:37:28 AM

Because it is a very powerful, very communicable virus.    And Americans have yet to take the necessary steps to control it.   But that is not a reason to withhold care.

For what its worth, the argument is not about withholding care, its about allocating care.  There is no more care to be had. Jesmu's point is about allocating that scarce resource to folks who have not selfishly or intentionally put themselves in a position to need it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 01, 2020, 08:59:31 AM

Whether we like it or not, we are all in this together.

As for making people reap what they sow, even if you get past the moral dimensions of such a policy, contact tracers are overwhelmed in many places so we don't often know where someone got the virus. Even if we did, there are many 'good' people who do the right thing most of the time, but might slip up once (because they are human, after all) and then contract the virus. Or maybe they don't get the virus the day they slip up, but they catch it when they didn't - they are wearing a mask and suddenly encounter someone who isn't, and the maskless person gives them the virus. There are just too many variables to know for sure and make such a policy 'work.'

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on December 01, 2020, 09:02:27 AM

Quote from: The Lens on December 01, 2020, 08:34:22 AM

Curious about hose civilian interactions.  Were you wearing any mask?  Were they?  I can certainly appreciate that given your circumstances at a house fire things get chaotic and you would be exposed for periods.

I was not, and that is my point.    First interactions with civilians without a surgical mask in months.    But, walking out of fires and taking off your facepiece, there really is not an opportunity to put on a surgical mask.    Probably should have been more diligent during the clean up phase, picking up hoses, etc.    Like normal, the citizenry came out to watch.    And wanted to talk to us as we were cleaning up.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: SERocks on December 01, 2020, 09:45:12 AM

Quote from: tower912 on December 01, 2020, 07:37:28 AM

Because it is a very powerful, very communicable virus.

I still think we don't know something about the communicability of this virus.  I know of at least three families where a member got the virus and the others did not.  Living in the same house.  In one case sharing a bed for a few nights prior to confirmation of covid.  These things do not make sense.  (No I am not downplaying this virus at all, just really wonder what it is we are missing.  There is more to learn.)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on December 01, 2020, 09:55:19 AM

I shared the post to show how frustrated people are getting with the places proudly declaring that they don’t believe in mandating collective measures, for example. I really really hope we don’t have to make that kind of decision.
Heidi Stevens, a Chicago Tribune columnist, wrote about contracting Covid. She has no idea how she got it, and the rest of her family did not get infected.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on December 01, 2020, 10:11:45 AM

Quote from: SERocks on December 01, 2020, 09:45:12 AM

I still think we don't know something about the communicability of this virus.  I know of at least three families where a member got the virus and the others did not.  Living in the same house.  In one case sharing a bed for a few nights prior to confirmation of covid.  These things do not make sense.  (No I am not downplaying this virus at all, just really wonder what it is we are missing.  There is more to learn.)

completely agree.  I have heard of 4 families with similar situations.  Then 2 others that did everything by the book and everyone in the house got it except for the middle school child in both cases.

Really makes you think how a 15 minute conversation with someone can spread the virus but living with someone cannot?  This is one crazy virus

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on December 01, 2020, 10:18:01 AM

I believe this has been researched.  That certain people, most likely due to their viral load, do most of the spreading.  That numerous people who get the disease and show symptoms seemingly don't spread it at all.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on December 01, 2020, 10:49:40 AM

Quote from: MUBurrow on December 01, 2020, 08:58:07 AM

For what its worth, the argument is not about withholding care, its about allocating care.  There is no more care to be had. Jesmu's point is about allocating that scarce resource to folks who have not selfishly or intentionally put themselves in a position to need it.

You said it better. Thanks.

And maybe withholding of that care isn't necessary. But don't smokers or other high-risk personal behavior increase health insurance premiums?

So perhaps we should charge more for care for those who intentionally don't take precautions?

And, no, I don't know how you'd collect that information.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on December 01, 2020, 10:53:19 AM

I agree there is something to be learned about super spreaders.  If we could find a way to identify them or a test that detects their high viral load it would crush this thing very quickly. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on December 01, 2020, 01:36:00 PM

Quote from: SERocks on December 01, 2020, 09:45:12 AM

I still think we don't know something about the communicability of this virus.  I know of at least three families where a member got the virus and the others did not.  Living in the same house.  In one case sharing a bed for a few nights prior to confirmation of covid.  These things do not make sense.  (No I am not downplaying this virus at all, just really wonder what it is we are missing.  There is more to learn.)

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 01, 2020, 10:18:01 AM

I believe this has been researched.  That certain people, most likely due to their viral load, do most of the spreading.  That numerous people who get the disease and show symptoms seemingly don't spread it at all.

This is part of it. Another aspect is some of these cases are anecdotal without all the data one needs to make a rational analysis. An example of related to SERocks. I know a similar family, very close contact with a "contagious" family member where they "never got it," had negative tests to prove. Then later they got an antibody test out of curiosity. Turned out they got it at some point. Whether that was when the family member was sick, and false positive tests, or they were the one who infected their partner (asymptomatic), or they simply had it awhile earlier...who knows.

Bottom line is there was an explanation. There are a lot of viable explanations, each case is likely different.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on December 01, 2020, 02:38:02 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on December 01, 2020, 08:59:31 AM

Whether we like it or not, we are all in this together.

But we are not. ~40% of the poppy has said screw you and your restrictions. We are doing what we want.
And the rest of us are paying the price.
I have no issues with putting those folks at the end of the care line.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 01, 2020, 03:14:59 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on December 01, 2020, 02:38:02 PM

But we are not. ~40% of the poppy has said screw you and your restrictions. We are doing what we want.
And the rest of us are paying the price.
I have no issues with putting those folks at the end of the care line.

"And the rest of us are paying the price."

Like I said, whether we like it or not, we are all in this together. The virus dictates that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on December 01, 2020, 05:34:53 PM

https://crooksandliars.com/2020/12/ohio-republicans-try-impeach-mike-dewine

Ohio Republicans Trying To Impeach Republican Governor Mike DeWine Over COVID-19 Measures


How about we re-name the GOP to GRP - Grim Reaper Party. Only in Amurica could we have elected politicians openly advocating killing American citizens.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 01, 2020, 05:39:24 PM

Quote from: Jockey on December 01, 2020, 05:34:53 PM

https://crooksandliars.com/2020/12/ohio-republicans-try-impeach-mike-dewine

Ohio Republicans Trying To Impeach Republican Governor Mike DeWine Over COVID-19 Measures

How about we re-name the GOP to GRP - Grim Reaper Party. Only in Amurica could we have elected politicians openly advocating killing American citizens.

So this is what politicization of the pandemic has led to - the GOP eating its own for actually trying to help.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on December 01, 2020, 05:52:14 PM

Quote from: tower912 on December 01, 2020, 06:23:25 AM

I completely reject that philosophy.   Right now, the virus is everywhere    I caught it because we had two house fires in one night and I was mingling with civilians and other firefighters without a surgical mask for the only time in months.   Or I caught it at the dentist 36 hours later.   

This isn't some morality test.

w




That's a reckless insinuation, Fahrenheit, and I don't even know your dentist. Every dentist I've spoken with is going above and beyond all reasonable precautions to keep patients and staff as safe as is humanely possible. Just to be clear, I feel the safest, of anywhere, in my office caring for my patients, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on December 01, 2020, 05:54:50 PM

Two options, doc.   Personally, I think it was the fires.   If not, the only place I was inside that week without a mask was the dentist.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on December 01, 2020, 06:43:50 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 01, 2020, 05:52:14 PM

w




That's a reckless insinuation, Fahrenheit, and I don't even know your dentist. Every dentist I've spoken with is going above and beyond all reasonable precautions to keep patients and staff as safe as is humanely possible. Just to be clear, I feel the safest, of anywhere, in my office caring for my patients, hey?

As long as none of the hygienists have shaved heads, I'm sure you're safe.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Marquette Fan on December 02, 2020, 06:46:56 PM

Trump tweets more lies about Covid - https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/12/02/nevada-doctor-photo-trump-covid-misinformation/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on December 02, 2020, 06:47:37 PM

It's getting worse ... and it's going to get still worse.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/12/02/world/covid-19-coronavirus#any-thinking-person-has-to-be-worried-us-hospitals-are-treating-100226-covid-patients

The number of Covid-19 patients in American hospitals has surpassed 100,000 for the first time, nearly double the number from spring during the coronavirus’s deadly first wave, according to the Covid Tracking Project.

The relentless rise in hospitalizations follows a rapid climb in new cases, which now number more than one million every week. And deaths, a so-called lagging indicator that tends to spike after a rise in hospitalizations, have also been rising fast. They have now passed 270,000 in the U.S.

The numbers paint a sobering picture of what the next few weeks may look like, experts said. Hospitals in some places are nearing capacity, and if states are unable to curb the surge of new cases, those systems could soon become overwhelmed, as New York was in the spring.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Marquette Fan on December 02, 2020, 07:08:29 PM

Quote from: MU82 on December 02, 2020, 06:47:37 PM

It's getting worse ... and it's going to get still worse.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/12/02/world/covid-19-coronavirus#any-thinking-person-has-to-be-worried-us-hospitals-are-treating-100226-covid-patients

The number of Covid-19 patients in American hospitals has surpassed 100,000 for the first time, nearly double the number from spring during the coronavirus’s deadly first wave, according to the Covid Tracking Project.

The relentless rise in hospitalizations follows a rapid climb in new cases, which now number more than one million every week. And deaths, a so-called lagging indicator that tends to spike after a rise in hospitalizations, have also been rising fast. They have now passed 270,000 in the U.S.

The numbers paint a sobering picture of what the next few weeks may look like, experts said. Hospitals in some places are nearing capacity, and if states are unable to curb the surge of new cases, those systems could soon become overwhelmed, as New York was in the spring.

And yet how many people are going to still travel at Christmas and still have their large family gatherings too?  This is so very scary :(

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 02, 2020, 08:04:14 PM

Quote from: MU82 on December 02, 2020, 06:47:37 PM

It's getting worse ... and it's going to get still worse.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/12/02/world/covid-19-coronavirus#any-thinking-person-has-to-be-worried-us-hospitals-are-treating-100226-covid-patients

The number of Covid-19 patients in American hospitals has surpassed 100,000 for the first time, nearly double the number from spring during the coronavirus’s deadly first wave, according to the Covid Tracking Project.

The relentless rise in hospitalizations follows a rapid climb in new cases, which now number more than one million every week. And deaths, a so-called lagging indicator that tends to spike after a rise in hospitalizations, have also been rising fast. They have now passed 270,000 in the U.S.

The numbers paint a sobering picture of what the next few weeks may look like, experts said. Hospitals in some places are nearing capacity, and if states are unable to curb the surge of new cases, those systems could soon become overwhelmed, as New York was in the spring.

That is especially troubling given that winter is just beginning, and we won’t see the Thanksgiving surge in hospitals for at least 2 or 3 weeks. It is going to be a long, hard winter…

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on December 02, 2020, 08:13:57 PM

If we have a "Thanksgiving surge" you are going to see those number of cases start going up this weekend.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on December 02, 2020, 09:03:22 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 02, 2020, 08:13:57 PM

If we have a "Thanksgiving surge" you are going to see those number of cases start going up this weekend.

Less thank 1k off from a new record of cases today.  New record for deaths today though :(

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 02, 2020, 09:47:58 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 02, 2020, 08:13:57 PM

If we have a "Thanksgiving surge" you are going to see those number of cases start going up this weekend.

Cases will start showing up in the next few days, but I was responding to MU82’s post about hospitalizations. We will see those surge in a couple of weeks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on December 02, 2020, 10:03:07 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on December 02, 2020, 09:03:22 PM

Less thank 1k off from a new record of cases today.  New record for deaths today though :(

10 pm and over 2700 already. The next 8-10 weeks will be brutal. January and February could be the deadliest time in American history.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on December 02, 2020, 10:09:45 PM

"They are dying. That's true. It is what it is."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on December 02, 2020, 10:49:00 PM

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30438683/nba-says-48-positive-covid-19-initial-re-entry-testing

This is pretty crazy, 9% of NBA players are currently COVID positive.

Having 10% positivity rates for people that have serious exposure or COVID symptoms is one thing.

A 10% positivity rate for a random compulsory screening is another. Can that even be accurate?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on December 03, 2020, 09:14:24 AM

Quote from: forgetful on December 02, 2020, 10:49:00 PM

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30438683/nba-says-48-positive-covid-19-initial-re-entry-testing

This is pretty crazy, 9% of NBA players are currently COVID positive.

Having 10% positivity rates for people that have serious exposure or COVID symptoms is one thing.

A 10% positivity rate for a random compulsory screening is another. Can that even be accurate?

The CDC's data tracker website is currently down so I don't have exact numbers, but a lot of players spent the first couple of weeks after the bubble seeing their families. The AA community has gotten hit hard by this pandemic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 03, 2020, 09:43:54 AM

Quote from: forgetful on December 02, 2020, 10:49:00 PM

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30438683/nba-says-48-positive-covid-19-initial-re-entry-testing

This is pretty crazy, 9% of NBA players are currently COVID positive.

Having 10% positivity rates for people that have serious exposure or COVID symptoms is one thing.

A 10% positivity rate for a random compulsory screening is another. Can that even be accurate?

As Skatastrophy hints, after the very successful bubble, maybe the players did more socializing than was advisable. Perhaps it was a 'cabin fever' thing, maybe a sense of invincibility (not uncommon for young, elite athletes), but that could lead to a surge of cases after their bubble.

By analogy - like 'binge eating' after weeks on a strict diet.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on December 03, 2020, 10:04:35 AM

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/12/01/940395651/coronavirus-was-in-u-s-weeks-earlier-than-previously-known-study-says

I'll file this under bad/misleading science.

The report indicates that COVID was spreading far earlier around the US and globe than reported earlier. This is based on 106 antibody positive samples out of 7,389 blood donations between Dec. 13th and Jan. 17th.

People like Tucker Carlson are now using this as fuel for a "conspiracy" fire.

The 106 antibody positive samples represents 1.4% of the total, which is very easily in line with reasonable ranges for testing error. It also very likely can represent some cross reactivity with a recent, different, coronavirus infection. Possibly OC43 or HKU1, which are also beta-coronaviruses.

Keep sciencing, but also be careful regarding your data, there are a lot of agenda driven people out there that will exploit this for their own gain.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on December 03, 2020, 10:05:47 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on December 03, 2020, 09:43:54 AM

As Skatastrophy hints, after the very successful bubble, maybe the players did more socializing than was advisable. Perhaps it was a 'cabin fever' thing, maybe a sense of invincibility (not uncommon for young, elite athletes), but that could lead to a surge of cases after their bubble.

By analogy - like 'binge eating' after weeks on a strict diet.

This would make sense. Looks like there was some serious bar/club binging after the season ended.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on December 03, 2020, 03:58:47 PM

For those keeping track, we have now removed the equivalent of Toledo from the US population.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on December 03, 2020, 04:00:17 PM

Quote from: forgetful on December 03, 2020, 10:04:35 AM

People like Tucker Carlson are now using this as fuel for a "conspiracy" fire.

The article in Fox News by Carlson today with the title 'Covid is a Global Fraud' made my head hurt. So many confusing contradictions.  I noticed the article is a lot harder to find now.  Some things:

First I would like to point out Fox told us as late as March by their own anchors that Covid was a fraud.  Now onto article:

• Saying it was in the US well over a year ago
• Then saying it is the Democrats fault as the impeachment was going
• Then saying that these samples were released purposely after the election
• Then saying CDC hiding the information
• Then saying WHO hiding information knowing the virus was going to be a problem for the US
• Then saying Twitter in cahoots with CDC and WHO
• Going on how people make fun of Church going people

My lord.  That is one confusing conspiracy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 03, 2020, 04:18:23 PM

Quote from: MarquetteDano on December 03, 2020, 04:00:17 PM

The article in Fox News by Carlson today with the title 'Covid is a Global Fraud' made my head hurt. So many confusing contradictions.  I noticed the article is a lot harder to find now.  Some things:

First I would like to point out Fox told us as late as March by their own anchors that Covid was a fraud.  Now onto article:

• Saying it was in the US well over a year ago
• Then saying it is the Democrats fault as the impeachment was going
• Then saying that these samples were released purposely after the election
• Then saying CDC hiding the information
• Then saying WHO hiding information knowing the virus was going to be a problem for the US
• Then saying Twitter in cahoots with CDC and WHO
• Going on how people make fun of Church going people

My lord.  That is one confusing conspiracy.

You confused Tucker Carlson with news.  Just ignore that noise.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on December 03, 2020, 06:42:14 PM

https://cbs2iowa.com/news/local/tyson-faces-allegations-managers-were-instructed-to-lie-about-covid-spread

That's so nice of them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on December 04, 2020, 05:35:18 AM

Quote from: tower912 on December 03, 2020, 03:58:47 PM

For those keeping track, we have now removed the equivalent of Toledo from the US population.   

Holy Toledo!!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on December 04, 2020, 07:55:47 AM

https://twitter.com/pebonilla/status/1334711292322590724?s=20

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 04, 2020, 08:01:10 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 04, 2020, 07:55:47 AM

https://twitter.com/pebonilla/status/1334711292322590724?s=20

Not an easy read, nor should it be

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 04, 2020, 12:33:01 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 04, 2020, 07:55:47 AM

https://twitter.com/pebonilla/status/1334711292322590724?s=20

Yep. The attitudes of too many Americans have gone way too far in the 'me first' direction. In WWII, the whole country faced widespread hardships and deprivations for years, all to support the war effort. Today, too many Americans can't be inconvenienced to wear a simple mask and follow guidelines on social distancing and holiday gatherings.

Very sad.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Marquette Fan on December 04, 2020, 07:28:20 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 04, 2020, 07:55:47 AM

https://twitter.com/pebonilla/status/1334711292322590724?s=20

Very sad but very spot on unfortunately

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on December 05, 2020, 07:57:36 AM

My wife, a pediatric RN, was sad to report that a 14-year-old under her team's care just died of complications due to COVID-19.

The girl had pre-existing conditions, but my wife said there was absolutely no reason to believe she wouldn't have lived a normal life.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on December 05, 2020, 08:11:29 AM

Quote from: MU82 on December 05, 2020, 07:57:36 AM

My wife, a pediatric RN, was sad to report that a 14-year-old under her team's care just died of complications due to COVID-19.

The girl had pre-existing conditions, but my wife said there was absolutely no reason to believe she wouldn't have lived a normal life.

So sad to hear this. Unfortunately this isn't uncommon around the US.

Also, I've heard that in your area, some hospitals are hit pretty hard and having to convert units into makeshift ICUs.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on December 05, 2020, 08:38:43 AM

Quote from: forgetful on December 05, 2020, 08:11:29 AM

So sad to hear this. Unfortunately this isn't uncommon around the US.

Also, I've heard that in your area, some hospitals are hit pretty hard and having to convert units into makeshift ICUs.

My wife works for the largest hospital system in the southeast. It and its main rival seem to be in pretty good shape. But yes, there are many smaller, independent hospitals, especially in more rural areas, that are having serious problems now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 06, 2020, 02:45:32 PM

Rudy Giuliani positive....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on December 06, 2020, 03:27:31 PM

Thoughts and prayers.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on December 06, 2020, 03:36:59 PM

Checking in on herd immunity:

https://twitter.com/evansiegfried/status/1335593854809075716?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on December 06, 2020, 03:54:18 PM

Mentioned in the Sweden thread.    But worth mentioning lots of places. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on December 06, 2020, 04:20:28 PM

Quote from: tower912 on December 06, 2020, 03:54:18 PM

Mentioned in the Sweden thread.    But worth mentioning lots of places.

I see it now, thanks. Forgot there was a Sweden thread.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on December 06, 2020, 04:44:57 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on December 06, 2020, 02:45:32 PM

Rudy Giuliani positive....

Are extreme dishonesty, delusion and total disregard for human life comorbidities?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on December 06, 2020, 04:45:28 PM

Hair dye may be.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on December 06, 2020, 05:36:58 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on December 06, 2020, 02:45:32 PM

Rudy Giuliani positive....

How many people has he exposed to this virus.

Also, already hospitalized, and I'm sure getting access to medication the average American would never be able to get.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on December 06, 2020, 06:04:30 PM

Quote from: forgetful on December 06, 2020, 05:36:58 PM

How many people has he exposed to this virus.

Also, already hospitalized, and I'm sure getting access to medication the average American would never be able to get.

Exactly. I am not wishing for anyone to die, but I am pretty sick of these guys taking zero precautions, as well as actually killing people, and they get special treatment.

They should be at the bottom of the list for the latest treatments.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 06, 2020, 06:16:55 PM

Quote from: Jockey on December 06, 2020, 06:04:30 PM

Exactly. I am not wishing for anyone to die, but I am pretty sick of these guys taking zero precautions, as well as actually killing people, and they get special treatment.

They should be at the bottom of the list for the latest treatments.

Yep...unless he wants Trump to stick a UV light up his a$$.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on December 06, 2020, 07:06:21 PM

Quote from: Jockey on December 06, 2020, 06:04:30 PM

Exactly. I am not wishing for anyone to die, but I am pretty sick of these guys taking zero precautions, as well as actually killing people, and they get special treatment.

They should be at the bottom of the list for the latest treatments.

A few weeks after Trump had his bout with Covid and got special treatment my mom was tested for covid. The dr told her if positive they would spend about an hour or 2 giving her an IV of the trump drug as my mom called it.  Not sure what that was but i was surprised to hear that it was available to the general population. She was negative so never got the trump drug.

So i guess I am very confused what is available to the general population

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on December 06, 2020, 07:10:05 PM

Quote from: Jockey on December 06, 2020, 06:04:30 PM

Exactly. I am not wishing for anyone to die, but I am pretty sick of these guys taking zero precautions, as well as actually killing people, and they get special treatment.

They should be at the bottom of the list for the latest treatments.

So how exactly do you manage this?  How do you determine who has taken the appropriate precautions and therefore worthy of treatment?

You can’t. And you know that. So yet another post of yours that makes no sense.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on December 06, 2020, 07:11:59 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 06, 2020, 07:10:05 PM

So how exactly do you manage this?  How do you determine who has taken the appropriate precautions and therefore worthy of treatment?

You can’t. And you know that. So yet another post of yours that makes no sense.

Exactly. That attitude is just as selfish as the people who unnecessarily put themselves at risk is selfish.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on December 06, 2020, 07:27:49 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 06, 2020, 07:10:05 PM

So how exactly do you manage this?  How do you determine who has taken the appropriate precautions and therefore worthy of treatment?

You can’t. And you know that. So yet another post of yours that makes no sense.

Seriously? Read my post and digest what I actually said. I was talking a specific subset of the population - trump a$$ lickers who totally disregard the public safety. Then after helping spread the disease - and yes, killing people, they get treatments that you and I could never get.

For being one of the smarter guys on this board (I mean that; it is not sarcasm), your inclination to always look for an argument can obscure that fact.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on December 06, 2020, 07:31:08 PM

Quote from: Jockey on December 06, 2020, 07:27:49 PM

Seriously? Read my post and digest what I actually said. I was talking a specific subset of the population - trump a$$ lickers who totally disregard the public safety. Then after helping spread the disease - and yes, killing people, they get treatments that you and I could never get.

For being one of the smarter guys on this board (I mean that; it is not sarcasm), your inclination to always look for an argument can obscure that fact.

First, wades is right that your position is just as immoral and those who you want to suffer from withholding treatment.

Second, how do you determine who hasn’t done enough to warrant treatment?  You answered this with political drivel and not substance above. Can you now manage a substantive answer?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on December 06, 2020, 07:47:31 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 06, 2020, 07:31:08 PM

First, wades is right that your position is just as immoral and those who you want to suffer from withholding treatment.

Second, how do you determine who hasn’t done enough to warrant treatment?  You answered this with political drivel and not substance above. Can you now manage a substantive answer?

Again, you miss my point entirely. You want to argue.

Immoral is letting innocent people who have have taken every precaution die without access to treatments that could save them, while those who are openly and actively spreading the disease get that treatment.

So, no mas. I'm done with you.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on December 06, 2020, 07:53:10 PM

Quote from: Jockey on December 06, 2020, 07:47:31 PM

Again, you miss my point entirely. You want to argue.

Immoral is letting innocent people who have have taken every precaution die without access to treatments that could save them, while those who are openly and actively spreading the disease get that treatment.

So, no mas. I'm done with you.

In other words, you want to rant but not actually provide substantive answers. Not surprised.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on December 06, 2020, 08:28:01 PM

Another Reason to Wear a Mask: COVID-19 May Cause Erectile Dysfunction

https://www.nbcboston.com/lx/another-reason-to-wear-a-mask-covid-19-may-cause-erectile-dysfunction/2248526/?fbclid=IwAR36jC-rb_8ejHU_kllX3wrpINchwC-092nlAm3kqsJHP62eUL2_8t4tpF0

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on December 06, 2020, 09:40:14 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on December 06, 2020, 08:28:01 PM

Another Reason to Wear a Mask: COVID-19 May Cause Erectile Dysfunction

https://www.nbcboston.com/lx/another-reason-to-wear-a-mask-covid-19-may-cause-erectile-dysfunction/2248526/?fbclid=IwAR36jC-rb_8ejHU_kllX3wrpINchwC-092nlAm3kqsJHP62eUL2_8t4tpF0

Knock on wood, that doesn't happen to any Scoopers. It would be hard to live with such a stiff consequence.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on December 06, 2020, 10:17:40 PM

Quote from: MU82 on December 06, 2020, 09:40:14 PM

Knock on wood, that doesn't happen to any Scoopers. It would be hard to live with such a stiff consequence.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on December 06, 2020, 10:19:00 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on December 06, 2020, 08:28:01 PM

Another Reason to Wear a Mask: COVID-19 May Cause Erectile Dysfunction

https://www.nbcboston.com/lx/another-reason-to-wear-a-mask-covid-19-may-cause-erectile-dysfunction/2248526/?fbclid=IwAR36jC-rb_8ejHU_kllX3wrpINchwC-092nlAm3kqsJHP62eUL2_8t4tpF0

That might do it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on December 07, 2020, 07:40:32 AM

AZ legislature has to shut down after the now-infected and hospitalized Giuliani exposed them to COVID-19. He very proudly did not wear a mask.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/12/06/giuliani-test-positive-covid-19-met-arizona-lawmakers-before/3852278001/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on December 07, 2020, 07:56:42 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on December 06, 2020, 02:45:32 PM

Rudy Giuliani positive....

(https://images2.imgbox.com/0e/9b/3xzmmaKj_o.png) (https://imgbox.com/3xzmmaKj)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on December 07, 2020, 08:33:32 AM

Quote from: injuryBug on December 06, 2020, 07:06:21 PM

A few weeks after Trump had his bout with Covid and got special treatment my mom was tested for covid. The dr told her if positive they would spend about an hour or 2 giving her an IV of the trump drug as my mom called it.  Not sure what that was but i was surprised to hear that it was available to the general population. She was negative so never got the trump drug.

So i guess I am very confused what is available to the general population

I remember you posting this, and it confused me then. I'm guessing the doctor meant Remdesivir. The monoclonal antibodies hadn't received an EUA yet, and are still in extremely limited supply. For your mom to get the antibodies, it would have required a "compassionate use exemption," those are really hard to get and the pharmaceutical companies need to approve it.

They are very reluctant to do so, unless you are rich and powerful it appears (e.g. Trump and his cronies). They are also very expensive.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on December 07, 2020, 09:25:36 AM

Quote from: MU82 on December 07, 2020, 07:40:32 AM

AZ legislature has to shut down after the now-infected and hospitalized Giuliani exposed them to COVID-19. He very proudly did not wear a mask.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/12/06/giuliani-test-positive-covid-19-met-arizona-lawmakers-before/3852278001/

Rudy Ghouliani

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on December 07, 2020, 11:49:34 AM

Of course, it's more than just the AZ legislature. Giuliani, just about never wearing a mask, has been in a lot of people's faces the last week-plus. He could end up being personally responsible for numerous people getting seriously ill (or even dying), just as his lord and master was.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on December 07, 2020, 11:55:33 AM

Pretty sure that this could be an addendum to the SNL cold open regarding his trip to Michigan.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on December 07, 2020, 12:01:43 PM

Quote from: tower912 on December 07, 2020, 11:55:33 AM

Pretty sure that this could be an addendum to the SNL cold open regarding his trip to Michigan.

For 4 years now, we have seen little more than a series of SNL skits at our highest levels of government.

Unfortunately, amidst the comic ineptitude, there are serious, real-world consequences like this ...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/07/climate/trump-epa-soot-covid.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20201207&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=46263&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

WASHINGTON — The Trump administration on Monday declined to tighten controls on industrial soot emissions, disregarding an emerging scientific link between dirty air and Covid-19 death rates.

In one of the final policy moves of an administration that has spent the past four years weakening or rolling back more than 100 environmental regulations, the Environmental Protection Agency completed a regulation that keeps in place, rather than tightening, rules on tiny, lung-damaging industrial particles, known as PM 2.5, even though the agency’s own scientists have warned of the links between the pollutants and respiratory illness.

E.P.A. administrator Andrew Wheeler is expected to announce the rule Monday afternoon, according to a person familiar with the matter.

Public health experts say that the rule defies scientific research, including the work of the E.P.A.’s own public health experts, which indicates that PM 2.5 pollution contributes to tens of thousands of premature deaths annually, and that even a slight tightening of controls on fine soot could save thousands of American lives.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: injuryBug on December 07, 2020, 02:39:15 PM

Quote from: forgetful on December 07, 2020, 08:33:32 AM

I remember you posting this, and it confused me then. I'm guessing the doctor meant Remdesivir. The monoclonal antibodies hadn't received an EUA yet, and are still in extremely limited supply. For your mom to get the antibodies, it would have required a "compassionate use exemption," those are really hard to get and the pharmaceutical companies need to approve it.

They are very reluctant to do so, unless you are rich and powerful it appears (e.g. Trump and his cronies). They are also very expensive.

Interesting my mom is not rich but as powerful as a 5ft 78 lb woman with copd can be

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on December 07, 2020, 03:30:42 PM

Quote from: injuryBug on December 07, 2020, 02:39:15 PM

Interesting my mom is not rich but as powerful as a 5ft 78 lb woman with copd can be

I guess my point was that your mom was going to get remdesivir, still a good drug that Trump received, but not the one I critique the elites as getting special access to.

Trump and his cronies got access to Regeneron and/or Eli Lilly's antibody treatment. That wasn't given an EUA until late November, and then wasn't available to really anyone else (not in a placebo controlled trial), including your mom.

The main thing is, there wasn't a "Trump drug" but rather "drugs". He quite honestly got them all, except HCQ...weird how he wasn't treated with it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on December 07, 2020, 03:55:33 PM

Quote from: forgetful on December 07, 2020, 03:30:42 PM

I guess my point was that your mom was going to get remdesivir, still a good drug that Trump received, but not the one I critique the elites as getting special access to.

Trump and his cronies got access to Regeneron and/or Eli Lilly's antibody treatment. That wasn't given an EUA until late November, and then wasn't available to really anyone else (not in a placebo controlled trial), including your mom.

The main thing is, there wasn't a "Trump drug" but rather "drugs". He quite honestly got them all, except HCQ...weird how he wasn't treated with it.

Yep. He was carried away by helicopters to one of the world's great hospitals, where a dozen top doctors doted on him and prescribed him every medication under the sun, moon and stars.

Like he said, if he could overcome COVID-19 through the sheer force of his mighty will, his superhuman strength, his awesome courage, and his extremely stable genius intellect, anybody can! All those who died were "losers" and "suckers."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 07, 2020, 04:22:03 PM

Quote from: forgetful on December 07, 2020, 03:30:42 PM

I guess my point was that your mom was going to get remdesivir, still a good drug that Trump received, but not the one I critique the elites as getting special access to.

Trump and his cronies got access to Regeneron and/or Eli Lilly's antibody treatment. That wasn't given an EUA until late November, and then wasn't available to really anyone else (not in a placebo controlled trial), including your mom.

The main thing is, there wasn't a "Trump drug" but rather "drugs". He quite honestly got them all, except HCQ...weird how he wasn't treated with it.

Agreed. The doc could have been referring to a number of things as the "Trump drug," and it was most likely Remdesovir.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on December 07, 2020, 04:41:08 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on December 07, 2020, 04:22:03 PM

Agreed. The doc could have been referring to a number of things as the "Trump drug," and it was most likely Remdesovir.

Why wouldn't the doctor have been talking about dexamethasone?  It can be IV as well.  I realize you weren't saying it couldn't have been.  Just seems more likely than either of the experimental ones.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 07, 2020, 05:22:14 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on December 07, 2020, 04:41:08 PM

Why wouldn't the doctor have been talking about dexamethasone?  It can be IV as well.  I realize you weren't saying it couldn't have been.  Just seems more likely than either of the experimental ones.

True, it could have been dex. It's mostly the fact that dex has been approved for eons and tons of people had gotten dex long before Trump became sick, so its association with him (and apparent likelihood of calling it the "Trump drug") was minimal at best. Remdesvir, OTOH, just got its EUA a couple of months before Trump got sick.

But again, only the doc knows what he meant for sure....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on December 07, 2020, 05:39:32 PM

Quote

Number of citizens who lost health care coverage since the pandemic began:

14,600,000 United States       
0    Australia   
0    Belgium
0    Canada
0    Denmark
0    Finland
0    France
0    Germany
0    Italy
0    Japan
0    Norway
0    South Korea
0    Spain
0    UK

https://twitter.com/GravelInstitute/status/1334578660200886276?s=20

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on December 07, 2020, 06:49:07 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on December 07, 2020, 05:39:32 PM

https://twitter.com/GravelInstitute/status/1334578660200886276?s=20

Once an American is out of the womb, we don't really care much about what happens to him or her.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on December 07, 2020, 06:51:58 PM

Remember the Data Scientist that worked for Florida GIS that refused to fudge the numbers at the request of their nutter governor?

Reminder: https://www.npr.org/2020/06/14/876584284/fired-florida-data-scientist-launches-a-coronavirus-dashboard-of-her-own

And then Florida has been lying about their case count and death tally ever since? Well, looks like her home got raided by cops wielding their weapons and her computers were taken today:

https://twitter.com/GeoRebekah/status/1336065787900145665

How're you going to do stuff like this to data scientists? Really wild.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on December 07, 2020, 07:00:04 PM

Quote from: Skatastrophy on December 07, 2020, 06:51:58 PM

Remember the Data Scientist that worked for Florida GIS that refused to fudge the numbers at the request of their nutter governor?

Reminder: https://www.npr.org/2020/06/14/876584284/fired-florida-data-scientist-launches-a-coronavirus-dashboard-of-her-own

And then Florida has been lying about their case count and death tally ever since? Well, looks like her home got raided by cops wielding their weapons and her computers were taken today:

https://twitter.com/GeoRebekah/status/1336065787900145665

How're you going to do stuff like this to data scientists? Really wild.

Pretty disgusting, but totally expected from DeSantis.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: CreightonWarrior on December 07, 2020, 07:38:37 PM

How long should you wait to test after a possible exposure?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on December 07, 2020, 07:53:00 PM

Quote from: CreightonWarrior on December 07, 2020, 07:38:37 PM

How long should you wait to test after a possible exposure?

3 or 4 days.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on December 07, 2020, 07:55:47 PM

Quote from: CreightonWarrior on December 07, 2020, 07:38:37 PM

How long should you wait to test after a possible exposure?

But please isolate, that’s the first thing you should do.  Wishing you safety and health CW.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: CreightonWarrior on December 07, 2020, 08:01:08 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 07, 2020, 07:53:00 PM

3 or 4 days.

Quote from: reinko on December 07, 2020, 07:55:47 PM

But please isolate, that’s the first thing you should do.  Wishing you safety and health CW.

Thanks for the info guys. Very low chance but covering bases. We’re a very isolated family this fall. Grocery store and take out is about it for us. Really sucks that I was even able to consider finding tickets for Creighton/Kansas at Allen Fieldhouse tomorrow.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on December 07, 2020, 08:56:00 PM

Quote from: CreightonWarrior on December 07, 2020, 07:38:37 PM

How long should you wait to test after a possible exposure?

The general answer is, there is no great answer. If you wait 3-4 days. You could test negative, but develop COVID a day or two (or more later).

If you are looking for your own peace of mind, I'd wait 7 days and do the RT-PCR test, not the 15-minute test.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on December 08, 2020, 08:27:05 AM

I think at seven days you can be fairly confident, most ( but admittedly not all) infections show up by then.
I have friends whose nephew is a pastor. They had him come for Thanksgiving and sometime in the next few days he tested positive (I am not certain if he became symptomatic or tested due to exposure). I talked to them late last week and so far they were fine, they were isolating. But the parish had to suspend services.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 08, 2020, 08:49:33 AM

Interesting NYT opinion piece on using more graphic warnings about the effects of Covid. Scare people instead of appealing to their sense of 'doing the right thing.'

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/07/opinion/covid-public-health-messaging.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

I still remember exactly where I was sitting decades ago, during the short film shown in class: For a few painful minutes, we watched a woman talking mechanically, raspily through a hole in her throat, pausing occasionally to gasp for air.

The public service message: This is what can happen if you smoke.

I had nightmares about that ad, which today would most likely be tagged with a trigger warning or deemed unsuitable for children. But it was supremely effective: I never started smoking and doubt that few if any of my horrified classmates did either.

When the government required television and radio stations to give $75 million in free airtime for antismoking ads between 1967 and 1970 — many of them terrifyingly graphic — smoking rates plummeted. Since then, numerous smoking “scare” campaigns have proved successful. Some even featured celebrities, like Yul Brynner’s posthumous offering with a warning after he died from lung cancer: “Now that I’m gone, don’t smoke, whatever you do, just don’t smoke.”

As the United States faces out-of-control spikes from Covid-19, with people refusing to take recommended, often even mandated, precautions, our public health announcements from governments, medical groups and health care companies feel lame compared to the urgency of the moment. A mix of clever catchphrases, scientific information and calls to civic duty, they are virtuous and profoundly dull.

The Centers for Diseases Control urges people to wear masks in videos that feature scientists and doctors talking about wanting to send kids safely to school or protecting freedom.

Quest Diagnostics made a video featuring people washing their hands, talking on the phone, playing checkers. The message: “Come together by spending time apart.”

------------------

Maybe an ad showing a previously healthy, active 30-year old hooked up to machines and desperately struggling for breath? And ads showing 'recovered' people who used to run marathons, but now struggle to walk around the block?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on December 08, 2020, 08:55:33 AM

Maybe in light of yesterday, we could mention that the equivalent number of people are dying daily from Covid that died from the attack on Pearl Harbor.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on December 08, 2020, 08:58:12 AM

Goooo, nobody watches commercials

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on December 08, 2020, 09:50:31 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on December 08, 2020, 08:49:33 AM

I still remember exactly where I was sitting decades ago, during the short film shown in class: For a few painful minutes, we watched a woman talking mechanically, raspily through a hole in her throat, pausing occasionally to gasp for air.

So .. I vividly remember that short film, maybe when I was in 2nd grade or so.  My mom smoked.

I took a bunch of her matchbooks and wrote "GO AHEAD, SMOKE.  GET A HOLE IN YOUR THROAT" so she'd see them when she lit up.

A few years later, her sister got laryngeal cancer and .. wait for it .. had a laryngectomy and spoke with one of those "humming" devices. 

I was quite the prophetic child.    :-\

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 08, 2020, 10:05:05 AM

Quote from: tower912 on December 08, 2020, 08:58:12 AM

Goooo, nobody watches commercials

Familiar with any of these?

Lily from AT&T
Flo and Jamie
The Gecko
The Bunny

Nobody wants to watch them, but a well-made commercial can grab your attention even when you try to look away. And I have a feeling a young, healthy person gasping for air in the midst of a pandemic would grab a lot of attention.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on December 08, 2020, 10:28:02 AM

Should have used teal.   The Geico aunts commercial is really striking home some places right now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on December 08, 2020, 11:16:53 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on December 08, 2020, 10:05:05 AM

Familiar with any of these?

Lily from AT&T
Flo and Jamie
The Gecko
The Bunny

Nobody wants to watch them, but a well-made commercial can grab your attention even when you try to look away. And I have a feeling a young, healthy person gasping for air in the midst of a pandemic would grab a lot of attention.

Even some not well-made ones courtesy of Mr Gruber.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 08, 2020, 01:28:31 PM

Quote from: tower912 on December 08, 2020, 10:28:02 AM

Should have used teal.   The Geico aunts commercial is really striking home some places right now.

Missed the implied teal. Guess this wasn't a good week to quit sniffing glue.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on December 08, 2020, 02:09:09 PM

Jenna Ellis:

https://www.axios.com/jenna-ellis-trump-lawyer-covid-2bab2624-0b25-4f47-a532-079fd2c392da.html?utm_campaign=organic&utm_medium=socialshare&utm_source=twitter

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on December 08, 2020, 06:45:28 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on December 08, 2020, 02:09:09 PM

Jenna Ellis:

https://www.axios.com/jenna-ellis-trump-lawyer-covid-2bab2624-0b25-4f47-a532-079fd2c392da.html?utm_campaign=organic&utm_medium=socialshare&utm_source=twitter

But at least she and the rest of the "elite legal team" are doing a bang-up job as attorneys.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on December 08, 2020, 07:31:03 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on December 08, 2020, 08:49:33 AM

Maybe an ad showing a previously healthy, active 30-year old hooked up to machines and desperately struggling for breath? And ads showing 'recovered' people who used to run marathons, but now struggle to walk around the block?

This is not meant to be a “this virus affects only old people” statement, cause it’s not, but I don’t see this sort of commercial being effective and seen as anything more than eye rolling dramatic to many. The hospitalization rate for “young healthy” 20/30 somethings is so incredibly low, it won’t resonate. We’ve talked at length about how the danger and caution for youthful people is community spread and being a carrier to those who are at risk or elderly. That’s the only prayer of trying to get young people to be selfless If they need selling. Otherwise it’s the same as people having no pause in taking a medication in which a very small percentage have extreme side effects.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on December 08, 2020, 07:37:21 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on December 08, 2020, 07:31:03 PM

This is not meant to be a “this virus affects only old people” statement, cause it’s not, but I don’t see this sort of commercial being effective and seen as anything more than eye rolling dramatic to many. The hospitalization rate for “young healthy” 20/30 somethings is so incredibly low, it won’t resonate. We’ve talked at length about how the danger and caution for youthful people is community spread and being a carrier to those who are at risk or elderly. That’s the only prayer of trying to get young people to be selfless If they need selling. Otherwise it’s the same as people having no pause in taking a medication in which a very small percentage have extreme side effects.

I agree. The only thing I can see to work is to appeal to the family aspect. Sadly I (and probably many others) have started to have people in my circle impacted. It’s unfortunately going to hit home for a lot of people in the coming months. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 08, 2020, 09:06:05 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on December 08, 2020, 07:31:03 PM

This is not meant to be a “this virus affects only old people” statement, cause it’s not, but I don’t see this sort of commercial being effective and seen as anything more than eye rolling dramatic to many. The hospitalization rate for “young healthy” 20/30 somethings is so incredibly low, it won’t resonate. We’ve talked at length about how the danger and caution for youthful people is community spread and being a carrier to those who are at risk or elderly. That’s the only prayer of trying to get young people to be selfless If they need selling. Otherwise it’s the same as people having no pause in taking a medication in which a very small percentage have extreme side effects.

Maybe. But with the virus running roughshod over the country, much of the spread coming from informal gatherings, and hospitals filling up, could it do any harm? And do you have a better suggestion for getting people to follow the rules? (Other than a better bailout package, which the GOP isn’t going to allow)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on December 08, 2020, 09:48:24 PM

Trump Cheers ‘Terrific’ Rise in COVID Cases During Off-The-Rails Vaccine Summit

"...But after a few minutes of touting the success of Operation Warp Speed, his address morphed into an unspooling of grievances over the election outcome as well as an unfounded assertion that the rising number COVID-19 cases across the country was, in fact, a “terrific” development.

“I hear we’re close to 15 percent. I’m hearing that, and that’s terrific,” Trump said of the percentage of Americans who have contracted COVID-19.

He appeared to be referencing the increased likelihood that a rising infection rate would bring the country closer to so-called herd immunity, which would effectively stop the virus from spreading because there would be no potential carriers to which it could go.

In fact, infectious disease experts say an infection rate would have to be above 70 percent for herd immunity to take hold—a number that, if it were to be reached, would result in hundreds of thousands more Americans dying."

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-cheers-terrific-rise-covid-202506544.html

Best President of some of your lifetimes, am I right?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on December 08, 2020, 11:23:45 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on December 08, 2020, 09:06:05 PM

Maybe. But with the virus running roughshod over the country, much of the spread coming from informal gatherings, and hospitals filling up, could it do any harm? And do you have a better suggestion for getting people to follow the rules? (Other than a better bailout package, which the GOP isn’t going to allow)

The harm could be a waste of messaging that makes people take it even less seriously. Emphasizing an incredibly small percentage to “scare straight” a demographic would seem more likely to have an opposite effect than the intended. The vast majority of the young people that are not social distancing or attentive such gatherings are just selfish and immature, not “masks infringe on my freedoms” or similarly ignorant. That same young group knows the risk percentages of their age and just doesn’t care otherwise. Of the myriad reasons that they should be contributing in and taking part in combating the pandemic and/or thinking of others, direct personal risk is honestly probably the lowest for a fit/healthy young person, regardless of the token exceptions here or there.

I’m not one for overly draconian restrictions, but if you truly want to stop the informal gatherings, then you need to outright ban bars and vigorously enforce group gathering restrictions. Much like the discussions of Singapore in the mask thread, maybe there is less altruistic community care in the US, but the biggest differentiation in procedure for all the “successful” countries was strict and enforced rules, not soft pedaled requests. 

I don’t have all the answers, but speaking as someone in the healthy 30s demographic, “this could be you” scenarios featuring something that is a 1 in 2000ish chance, provided you actually get the virus, just won’t move the needle in my mind, and I’m thoughtful and conscientious with a 90 year old Grandmother and another Grandmother in her mid 80s on oxygen, much less others in the target range.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 09, 2020, 09:38:32 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on December 08, 2020, 11:23:45 PM

I don’t have all the answers, but speaking as someone in the healthy 30s demographic, “this could be you” scenarios featuring something that is a 1 in 2000ish chance, provided you actually get the virus, just won’t move the needle in my mind, and I’m thoughtful and conscientious with a 90 year old Grandmother and another Grandmother in her mid 80s on oxygen, much less others in the target range.

The underlined is the reason I question whether you have the answer any more than I do. The purpose of a PSA at this point would be to target those who aren't being thoughtful and conscientious about Covid, whether they're in the healthy 30s demographic, or an older 'it's my life, dammit' demographic.

Anyhow, it was just an idea to move a needle that desperately needs to be moved.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 09, 2020, 02:23:42 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on December 08, 2020, 07:31:03 PM

This is not meant to be a “this virus affects only old people” statement, cause it’s not, but I don’t see this sort of commercial being effective and seen as anything more than eye rolling dramatic to many. The hospitalization rate for “young healthy” 20/30 somethings is so incredibly low, it won’t resonate. We’ve talked at length about how the danger and caution for youthful people is community spread and being a carrier to those who are at risk or elderly. That’s the only prayer of trying to get young people to be selfless If they need selling. Otherwise it’s the same as people having no pause in taking a medication in which a very small percentage have extreme side effects.

Show a family at Christmas in 2019.  Then Thanksgiving in 2020.  Then Christmas 2020 with a few less family members... fading away from the table.

Simple, quiet, effective.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 09, 2020, 08:29:25 PM

Over 3,000 deaths reported today.  :(

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on December 09, 2020, 09:50:15 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on December 09, 2020, 08:29:25 PM

Over 3,000 deaths reported today.  :(

I thought we'd plateau at 3,000, looks like I'm going to be wrong. We now have more people dying daily from COVID then died in 9/11.

Essentially the entire city of Tomahawk, WI died today.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on December 09, 2020, 10:15:45 PM

Quote from: forgetful on December 09, 2020, 09:50:15 PM

I thought we'd plateau at 3,000, looks like I'm going to be wrong. We now have more people dying daily from COVID then died in 9/11.

Essentially the entire city of Tomahawk, WI died today.

It’s coming sooner than expected. I had said 3,000 - 4,000 by mid January.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 09, 2020, 11:21:24 PM

Quote from: Jockey on December 09, 2020, 10:15:45 PM

It’s coming sooner than expected. I had said 3,000 - 4,000 by mid January.

And we are just beginning to see new cases spike from Thanksgiving. A couple more weeks and we will see the hospitalization curve accelerate further, followed by deaths.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on December 10, 2020, 08:24:12 AM

"Social inequities explain racial gaps in pandemic, studies fund."

"Race is a social construct, not biological."

11,547, NYU Langone patients.

49,701 patients in Michigan.

5 million V.A. patients in 1200 facilities.

New Orleans 3,481 patient study.

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1336898483329114113?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on December 10, 2020, 10:20:54 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on December 10, 2020, 08:24:12 AM

"Social inequities explain racial gaps in pandemic, studies fund."

"Race is a social construct, not biological."

11,547, NYU Langone patients.

49,701 patients in Michigan.

5 million V.A. patients in 1200 facilities.

New Orleans 3,481 patient study.

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1336898483329114113?s=19

It is a social construct. Hispanic includes Spain, but that's Europe, which makes them white. People ancestrally from Egypt would be African American but have more in common with those from the Middle East meanwhile those same people who are from ancestrally from South Africa are also checking African American. We call people from Sicily white, but do you think they have more genetic material from African Tunisia or from Northern Europe?

The list goes on. Race is a social construct and we made it worse by the 1/8th rule regarding if you were considered white or black. Till recently there wasn't even a common belief that someone was "mixed race" if you had a black parent and white parent you were still black (ie: people's reaction to Obama).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on December 10, 2020, 11:09:31 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on December 10, 2020, 10:20:54 AM

It is a social construct. Hispanic includes Spain, but that's Europe, which makes them white. People ancestrally from Egypt would be African American but have more in common with those from the Middle East meanwhile those same people who are from ancestrally from South Africa are also checking African American. We call people from Sicily white, but do you think they have more genetic material from African Tunisia or from Northern Europe?

The list goes on. Race is a social construct and we made it worse by the 1/8th rule regarding if you were considered white or black. Till recently there wasn't even a common belief that someone was "mixed race" if you had a black parent and white parent you were still black (ie: people's reaction to Obama).

Agree with your overall points, but...

Spain is not considered Hispanic. Egyptian/Tunisian/North African is not considered African American.

At least from a diversity perspective it is not.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on December 10, 2020, 11:17:47 AM

Quote from: forgetful on December 10, 2020, 11:09:31 AM

Agree with your overall points, but...

Spain is not considered Hispanic. Egyptian/Tunisian/North African is not considered African American.

At least from a diversity perspective it is not.

Are you talking legally or the actual definition of Hispanic? The actual definition of Hispanic includes Spain.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic

https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/life/a33971047/what-is-difference-between-hispanic-latino-spanish/

I wasn't aware North Africa was not considered African American. Are they considered middle eastern? Or what?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on December 10, 2020, 11:20:18 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on December 10, 2020, 10:20:54 AM

It is a social construct. Hispanic includes Spain, but that's Europe, which makes them white. People ancestrally from Egypt would be African American but have more in common with those from the Middle East meanwhile those same people who are from ancestrally from South Africa are also checking African American. We call people from Sicily white, but do you think they have more genetic material from African Tunisia or from Northern Europe?

The list goes on. Race is a social construct and we made it worse by the 1/8th rule regarding if you were considered white or black. Till recently there wasn't even a common belief that someone was "mixed race" if you had a black parent and white parent you were still black (ie: people's reaction to Obama).

A good chunk of my family is Sicily and Ancestry.com test says no genetic material from African Tunisia.  I got 3% Greek which I think comes from Sicily.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on December 10, 2020, 11:22:29 AM

Quote from: Jockey on December 09, 2020, 10:15:45 PM

It’s coming sooner than expected. I had said 3,000 - 4,000 by mid January.

Not that I'm proud of my maths, but I tried to tell both of you.  We started hitting 2k/day about 3 weeks after averaging 100k cases/day.  We started hitting 200k cases/day after Nov 20.  The next week is going to be awful.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on December 10, 2020, 11:29:26 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on December 10, 2020, 11:20:18 AM

A good chunk of my family is Sicily and Ancestry.com test says no genetic material from African Tunisia.  I got 3% Greek which I think comes from Sicily.

Conversely, my dad's dad was from there (Messina) and my 23andme came back with a bit of North African descent. It was a Mediterranean trading post so it's not far fetched that there'll be people with ancestry from all over

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on December 10, 2020, 11:31:16 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on December 10, 2020, 11:22:29 AM

Not that I'm proud of my maths, but I tried to tell both of you.  We started hitting 2k/day about 3 weeks after averaging 100k cases/day.  We started hitting 200k cases/day after Nov 20.  The next week is going to be awful.

If awful is the word you use for next week, what will it be by mid-to-late January? :-\

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on December 10, 2020, 11:33:56 AM

Quote from: Jockey on December 10, 2020, 11:31:16 AM

If awful is the word you use for next week, what will it be by mid-to-late January? :-\

I'm running out of adjectives.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on December 10, 2020, 01:12:49 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on December 10, 2020, 11:17:47 AM

Are you talking legally or the actual definition of Hispanic? The actual definition of Hispanic includes Spain.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic

https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/life/a33971047/what-is-difference-between-hispanic-latino-spanish/

I wasn't aware North Africa was not considered African American. Are they considered middle eastern? Or what?

Largely, I can only speak from the standpoint of maintaining opportunities in academics and research. From a diversity standpoint, there are opportunities for specific demographics (Hispanic and African American amongst them). From the standpoint of the government (for grants and demographics purposes), originating from Spain is not Hispanic, nor is North African considered, African American.

I know this because of a committee/organization that I had to include different demographics for. I originally had empanelled a person from Tunisia, a person from Egypt, a person from Spain, and a person from Iran. I was told that I did not have any minorities on the committee, because all of those are considered European. Incidentally, I was told that if I just added a person from Pakistan or India, I would satisfy diversity requirements as they are considered Asian.

Also, colleagues from Tunisia, Egypt, and Spain do not qualify for diversity/inclusion for grants.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on December 10, 2020, 01:18:49 PM

Quote from: forgetful on December 10, 2020, 01:12:49 PM

Largely, I can only speak from the standpoint of maintaining opportunities in academics and research. From a diversity standpoint, there are opportunities for specific demographics (Hispanic and African American amongst them). From the standpoint of the government (for grants and demographics purposes), originating from Spain is not Hispanic, nor is North African considered, African American.

I know this because of a committee/organization that I had to include different demographics for. I originally had empanelled a person from Tunisia, a person from Egypt, a person from Spain, and a person from Iran. I was told that I did not have any minorities on the committee, because all of those are considered European. Incidentally, I was told that if I just added a person from Pakistan or India, I would satisfy diversity requirements as they are considered Asian.

Also, colleagues from Tunisia, Egypt, and Spain do not qualify for diversity/inclusion for grants.

This is actually quite interesting and I'd like to know more as to why. I mean does each institution change its definition or what qualifies as what? Obviously, you can read the links explaining Spain is included in Hispanic. And It seems rather odd to not consider a person from Africa as African while a mixed race person who is a quarter southern African may qualify.

I don't want to get the thread more off track but it does add to the idea that race is a social construct as African American apparently relates to a person's skin on the Fitzpatrick scale more than actually being from Africa.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on December 10, 2020, 01:42:20 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on December 10, 2020, 01:18:49 PM

This is actually quite interesting and I'd like to know more as to why. I mean does each institution change its definition or what qualifies as what? Obviously, you can read the links explaining Spain is included in Hispanic. And It seems rather odd to not consider a person from Africa as African while a mixed race person who is a quarter southern African may qualify.

I don't want to get the thread more off track but it does add to the idea that race is a social construct as African American apparently relates to a person's skin on the Fitzpatrick scale more than actually being from Africa.

In all honesty, it really amounts to, "you are if you say you are." My colleagues that don't qualify, are aware that the opportunities aren't intended for them. So they do not claim Hispanic or African American heritage. But if they thought they did count, nobody would check anything.

My learning experience for the panel, was enlightening, and clearly indicated that it was truly a social or institutional construct.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on December 10, 2020, 06:20:04 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on December 10, 2020, 11:33:56 AM

I'm running out of adjectives.

Not sure how you can say any of these terrible things.

It affects virtually nobody, you know.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on December 10, 2020, 06:26:39 PM

North Carolinians don't need no stinkin' vaccine ...

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/coronavirus/article247723660.html?ac_cid=DM341576&ac_bid=-1180529981

As N.C. hospitals prepare to receive COVID-19 vaccines, a new poll shows that only 40% of North Carolinian respondents said they would get an FDA-approved vaccine to fight the virus.

Health experts, awaiting the imminent approval of several COVID-19 vaccines, have worried that some people’s mistrust of vaccinations could limit the vaccines’ effectiveness in combating the spread of the coronavirus.

A new Elon University Poll, released Thursday morning, found that 60% of the 1,390 North Carolinians surveyed either would not take the vaccine, or are not sure.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Marquette Fan on December 10, 2020, 07:32:52 PM

Quote from: MU82 on December 10, 2020, 06:26:39 PM

North Carolinians don't need no stinkin' vaccine ...

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/coronavirus/article247723660.html?ac_cid=DM341576&ac_bid=-1180529981

As N.C. hospitals prepare to receive COVID-19 vaccines, a new poll shows that only 40% of North Carolinian respondents said they would get an FDA-approved vaccine to fight the virus.

Health experts, awaiting the imminent approval of several COVID-19 vaccines, have worried that some people’s mistrust of vaccinations could limit the vaccines’ effectiveness in combating the spread of the coronavirus.

A new Elon University Poll, released Thursday morning, found that 60% of the 1,390 North Carolinians surveyed either would not take the vaccine, or are not sure.

I'm expecting this to be a common attitude in a lot of areas - I think there are going to be a lot of people who do not want to get the vaccine.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 10, 2020, 08:05:16 PM

Quote from: Marquette Fan on December 10, 2020, 07:32:52 PM

I'm expecting this to be a common attitude in a lot of areas - I think there are going to be a lot of people who do not want to get the vaccine.

About 70% of the population has to get the vaccine (or have recovered from Covid) before we can get back to ‘normal.’

If a large portion of the country refuses to get vaccinated, we need to make those people understand that they are the reason we all will have to keep wearing masks far longer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on December 11, 2020, 07:05:40 AM

New Hampshire GOP lawmaker dies of COVID-19. Will it change any views on what, both sadly and idiotically, has become a partisan issue?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/10/us/richard-hinch-nh-covid.html

The New Hampshire State Legislature was already fiercely divided over the coronavirus when the new Republican speaker of the House of Representatives, Richard Hinch, died suddenly on Wednesday. Then came the news on Thursday that the cause of his death was Covid-19.

Mr. Hinch, who was 71, died just a week after he was sworn in as speaker — and about three weeks after an indoor meeting of his caucus that led to several members contracting the virus, an event that Mr. Hinch had tried to play down in public remarks. It was not clear whether he, too, had caught the virus at the caucus meeting.

The news will undoubtedly heighten tensions among state lawmakers, who have been at odds over the refusal of many Republican lawmakers to wear masks or take other pandemic precautions seriously. Splits have opened not just along partisan lines but also within the Republican ranks.

William M. Marsh, a Republican state representative, said  the responsibility for Mr. Hinch’s death lies on the shoulders of a group of Republican members who refused to take precautions like wearing masks and maintaining social distance, and who leaned on others to do the same. “The peer pressure from colleagues is the root cause of what happened to my friend,” Mr. Marsh said of Mr. Hinch.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on December 11, 2020, 10:43:45 AM

We don't have a California thread.

https://theintercept.com/2020/12/11/hollywood-covid-filming-california-lockdown/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on December 11, 2020, 10:48:59 AM

Government shutdown tomorrow? Funding runs out at midnight, and unless a funding bill is passed or the WH steps in a lot of workers will be furloughed.

If we can't pass a perfunctory spending bill, we have no hope of passing another stimulus package.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Marquette Fan on December 11, 2020, 11:59:30 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on December 10, 2020, 08:05:16 PM

About 70% of the population has to get the vaccine (or have recovered from Covid) before we can get back to ‘normal.’

If a large portion of the country refuses to get vaccinated, we need to make those people understand that they are the reason we all will have to keep wearing masks far longer.

I agree with you but unfortunately have no reason to think that people who haven't been taking Covid seriously are going to suddenly start listening now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 11, 2020, 01:30:00 PM

Quote from: Marquette Fan on December 11, 2020, 11:59:30 AM

I agree with you but unfortunately have no reason to think that people who haven't been taking Covid seriously are going to suddenly start listening now.

I certainly am not optimistic, but it's the only way I see out. If we don't get to ~70% somehow, the pandemic doesn't die out.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on December 11, 2020, 01:41:47 PM

It does for those who take the vaccine and then are diligent with follow up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on December 11, 2020, 03:07:21 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on December 10, 2020, 08:05:16 PM

About 70% of the population has to get the vaccine (or have recovered from Covid) before we can get back to ‘normal.’

If a large portion of the country refuses to get vaccinated, we need to make those people understand that they are the reason we all will have to keep wearing masks far longer.

I'm not trying to be obtuse, but once we get to a point where anyone who wants a vaccine has been able to get one, why do the vaccinated keep wearing masks?  To protect the portion of the country that refuses to get vaccinated? I'm not doing that. I will absolutely wear a mask if the people that refuse to get vaccinated are putting persons who have already been vaccinated at risk (like immunity doesn't last long enough or something). But I'm not wearing a mask to keep people who are politically opposed to vaccination safe.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on December 11, 2020, 03:31:13 PM

Having had an allergic reaction to Shingrix, albeit not a severe one, I don’t know how this whole Pfizer thing will play out for me, and believe me, I am otherwise ready to roll up my sleeve. So please continue to mask if needed for the sake of those who might want to take it but can’t.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 11, 2020, 03:39:17 PM

Quote from: MUBurrow on December 11, 2020, 03:07:21 PM

I'm not trying to be obtuse, but once we get to a point where anyone who wants a vaccine has been able to get one, why do the vaccinated keep wearing masks?  To protect the portion of the country that refuses to get vaccinated? I'm not doing that. I will absolutely wear a mask if the people that refuse to get vaccinated are putting persons who have already been vaccinated at risk (like immunity doesn't last long enough or something). But I'm not wearing a mask to keep people who are politically opposed to vaccination safe.

Actually, it's to protect who can't get the vaccine due to medical conditions. The early results in the UK hint that people with severe allergies might not be able to take it, and we could learn other contraindications as time goes on. And at least until late next year, kids won't likely be eligible - including kids with immune system issues.

If we can ever get past those groups to only people who have chosen not to be vaccinated, I'd agree there's no pressing need to wear a mask to protect the willfully stupid.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on December 11, 2020, 03:46:21 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on December 11, 2020, 03:31:13 PM

Having had an allergic reaction to Shingrix, albeit not a severe one, I don’t know how this whole Pfizer thing will play out for me, and believe me, I am otherwise ready to roll up my sleeve. So please continue to mask if needed for the sake of those who might want to take it but can’t.

I just my Shingrix vaccine last week and the flu vaccine at the same time.  My arm was very hurt for like 3-4 days.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on December 11, 2020, 04:01:24 PM

I have a friend who just declared that she will never get them at the same time again.
I’ve never even had a side effect of any vaccine before, so getting an allergic reaction was a big surprise to me.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on December 11, 2020, 04:11:47 PM

Quote from: MUBurrow on December 11, 2020, 03:07:21 PM

I'm not trying to be obtuse, but once we get to a point where anyone who wants a vaccine has been able to get one, why do the vaccinated keep wearing masks?  To protect the portion of the country that refuses to get vaccinated? I'm not doing that. I will absolutely wear a mask if the people that refuse to get vaccinated are putting persons who have already been vaccinated at risk (like immunity doesn't last long enough or something). But I'm not wearing a mask to keep people who are politically opposed to vaccination safe.

Here is an article.  Essentially they haven’t tested if a vaccinated person can incubate and shed the virus (while being protected themself).  My guess is by the time the gen pop gets the vaccine, they will know the answer. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/08/health/covid-vaccine-mask.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/08/health/covid-vaccine-mask.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on December 12, 2020, 07:23:03 AM

New study that shows why COVID impacts so many places in the body and could also be a key for long haulers.

Seems the body is attacking itself with auto-antibodies and the virus messing with your immune system for potentially a long time.

I’m not going to pretend to understand this at a functional level but the fact someone can isolate this amazes me.   

https://twitter.com/virusesimmunity/status/1337574470878449665?s=21 (https://twitter.com/virusesimmunity/status/1337574470878449665?s=21)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on December 12, 2020, 08:20:00 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on December 11, 2020, 03:46:21 PM

I just my Shingrix vaccine last week and the flu vaccine at the same time.  My arm was very hurt for like 3-4 days.

I had first Shingrix vaccine early Sept, no reaction ... flu shot about a month later, no reaction ... second Shingrix last week - the next day, I felt like a truck had hit me. Entire body hurt and bad headache. It felt like a bad case of the flu, except no upset stomach. But by the following day (2 days after shot), I was fine except for some lingering soreness in the shoulder. A few days after that, completely fine. It was the first time I had ever had any reaction at all to any medication, so that was weird, but thankfully I had been aware of possible side effects, and I was confident they'd be temporary.

It will be very interesting to see how the next month or three go for those getting the COVID-19 vaccines.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on December 12, 2020, 12:11:47 PM

Quote from: MU82 on December 12, 2020, 08:20:00 AM

I had first Shingrix vaccine early Sept, no reaction ... flu shot about a month later, no reaction ... second Shingrix last week - the next day, I felt like a truck had hit me. Entire body hurt and bad headache. It felt like a bad case of the flu, except no upset stomach. But by the following day (2 days after shot), I was fine except for some lingering soreness in the shoulder. A few days after that, completely fine. It was the first time I had ever had any reaction at all to any medication, so that was weird, but thankfully I had been aware of possible side effects, and I was confident they'd be temporary.

It will be very interesting to see how the next month or three go for those getting the COVID-19 vaccines.

The way you describe the 2nd shot is essentially what I think the COVID reaction will be like for many. Just wonder how many that will scare away from vaccination.

I'd gladly take the COVID vaccine today if I could.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 12, 2020, 01:51:53 PM

Quote from: forgetful on December 12, 2020, 12:11:47 PM

The way you describe the 2nd shot is essentially what I think the COVID reaction will be like for many. Just wonder how many that will scare away from vaccination.

Yep. Lots of polls already indicate willingness by far fewer than the 70% necessary to get back to 'normal,' and they were taken before we got much info about vaccine side effects. IMO, the only way we get anywhere close to 70% is if employers and schools require vaccination.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on December 12, 2020, 02:46:22 PM

If take the vaccine now.
Heck, I got like 10 last year before my Asia trip including Japanese Encephalitis, rabies, and Cholera (good for 1 year only).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on December 12, 2020, 10:27:39 PM

My wife and I absolutely would get the shots, as would my adult kids and kids-in-law.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Marquette Fan on December 13, 2020, 08:50:40 AM

I'll get it if nothing else because I want to see my parents in person at least one more time before they die :(.  We haven't seen them since last Christmas and I'm not sure when/if my Mom will feel ok being around us again as my kids, husband and I present a big risk to my Dad and his health issues right now (he most likely wouldn't survive getting Covid).  Of course I have no idea when kids will be able to get the vaccine but I'll deal with that part later..

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on December 13, 2020, 08:58:23 AM

Quote from: Marquette Fan on December 13, 2020, 08:50:40 AM

I'll get it if nothing else because I want to see my parents in person at least one more time before they die :(.  We haven't seen them since last Christmas and I'm not sure when/if my Mom will feel ok being around us again as my kids, husband and I present a big risk to my Dad and his health issues right now (he most likely wouldn't survive getting Covid).  Of course I have no idea when kids will be able to get the vaccine but I'll deal with that part later..

So sad to hear this. Here's hoping your dad continues to avoid this horrible virus and that, once this crisis passes, he has many, many, many years left to enjoy you and his grandkids.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on December 13, 2020, 09:27:03 AM

America's COVID-19 death toll almost certainly will hit 300,000 today.

That will be only 3 days after we hit 290,000, which was only 5 days after we hit 280,000, which was 6 days after we hit 270,000.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Marquette Fan on December 13, 2020, 11:13:59 AM

Quote from: MU82 on December 13, 2020, 08:58:23 AM

So sad to hear this. Here's hoping your dad continues to avoid this horrible virus and that, once this crisis passes, he has many, many, many years left to enjoy you and his grandkids.

Thanks - we almost lost him in 2016 so I'm grateful he's still around but am scared of something happening before we can see them again.  This will be the first time in my many years of life that I won't be with my parents on Christmas which is really going to suck but it most be done.  I'm hoping we'll be able to see them again in the spring.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on December 13, 2020, 11:36:10 AM

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55292614

Germany going into lockdown for the holidays starting Wednesday. Non-essential businesses will be closed, only groceries and pharmacies allowed to stay open.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on December 15, 2020, 10:36:31 AM

LA County has 56 ICU beds left
Orange County has 0 ICU beds left

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 15, 2020, 12:46:17 PM

Quote from: Skatastrophy on December 15, 2020, 10:36:31 AM

LA County has 56 ICU beds left
Orange County has 0 ICU beds left

And Orange County was where the Sheriff's Office wasn't going to enforce the state Covid restrictions.

https://abc7.com/orange-county-coronavirus-don-barnes-southern-california/8537280/

That decision didn't age well....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on December 15, 2020, 06:37:26 PM

Administration official infected with COVID-19, loses parts of both legs ...

https://www.businessinsider.com/head-of-white-house-security-office-coronavirus-amputation-medical-bills-2020-12

Crede Bailey, who heads the White House security office, lost part of his lower right leg, including his foot, and a toe of his left foot during a months-long battle with COVID-19, Bloomberg reported on Monday.

Bailey, whose office handles White House credentials and works with the Secret Service, contracted the coronavirus in September. He's been hospitalized for three months but is said to be recovering from the illness.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on December 15, 2020, 08:27:08 PM

Florida manipulated COVID data the downplay conditions leading up to the election.


https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-ss-prem-covid-deaths-florida-election-20201216-f4kgezjf4rf75ppumt4omxfsxy-story.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on December 15, 2020, 10:08:01 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on December 15, 2020, 08:27:08 PM

Florida manipulated COVID data the downplay conditions leading up to the election.


https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-ss-prem-covid-deaths-florida-election-20201216-f4kgezjf4rf75ppumt4omxfsxy-story.html

DeSantis & Co. have been doing this for months and months.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on December 16, 2020, 05:14:33 AM

And conducted raids on a truth teller.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 16, 2020, 08:45:35 AM

Quote from: tower912 on December 16, 2020, 05:14:33 AM

And conducted raids on a truth teller.

Yep. The pieces of the puzzle are now coming together as it appeared they would. The governor wanted to manipulate the data to downplay the deaths, a data scientist didn't want to play along so she tried to blow the whistle, and the scientist was targeted in a raid to teach her a lesson.

Orwell was just off by a few decades....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on December 16, 2020, 12:29:44 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on December 16, 2020, 08:45:35 AM

Yep. The pieces of the puzzle are now coming together as it appeared they would. The governor wanted to manipulate the data to downplay the deaths, a data scientist didn't want to play along so she tried to blow the whistle, and the scientist was targeted in a raid to teach her a lesson.

All of this is a perfectly acceptable trade-off because certain people got tax cuts. And a supreme court judge who will stop the horrible oppression of christians.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 16, 2020, 04:55:46 PM

A Research Letter published today in JAMA suggests that COVID mortality has been underreported in the 25-44 age group, in part due to limitations in testing during the study period (March - July).

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/10.1001/jama.2020.24243?guestAccessKey=e7e93128-2115-4730-89fb-023c8acfa867&utm_source=For_The_Media&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=ftm_links&utm_content=tfl&utm_term=121620

The COVID-19 pandemic was associated with increases in all-cause mortality among US adults aged 25 to 44 years from March through July of 2020. In 3 HHS regions, COVID-19 deaths were similar to or exceeded unintentional opioid overdoses that occurred during several corresponding months of 2018.

Only 38% of all-cause excess deaths in adults aged 25 to 44 years recorded during the pandemic were attributed directly to COVID-19. Although the remaining excess deaths are unexplained, inadequate testing in this otherwise healthy demographic likely contributed. These results suggest that COVID-19–related mortality may have been underdetected in this population.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on December 16, 2020, 05:20:20 PM

We all need to recommend some good books for Goo to read.

JAMA can be pretty exciting, but maybe we can help him do better.  ;)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on December 16, 2020, 07:03:54 PM

The "joke" is on us. We are Sweden!

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/12/16/trump-appointee-demanded-herd-immunity-strategy-446408


A trump official demanding that we kill Americans.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on December 16, 2020, 08:27:43 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on December 10, 2020, 11:22:29 AM

Not that I'm proud of my maths, but I tried to tell both of you.  We started hitting 2k/day about 3 weeks after averaging 100k cases/day.  We started hitting 200k cases/day after Nov 20.  The next week is going to be awful.

Oof - almost 3,500 died today  :'(

edit:  and we basically matched the new case high from last week (247k), so it's not getting better.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on December 16, 2020, 08:32:17 PM

On the bright side, Nurses are able to say "show me the money!"

https://khn.org/news/highly-paid-traveling-nurses-fill-staffing-shortages-during-covid-pandemic/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on December 16, 2020, 08:38:21 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on December 16, 2020, 08:27:43 PM

Oof - almost 3,500 died today  :'(

edit:  and we basically matched the new case high from last week (247k), so it's not getting better.

Yeah. I was the dope who said 3,000 - 4,000 by mid-January.

That’s why you are a Scoop executive and I’m just a nobody poster.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on December 16, 2020, 08:49:06 PM

Quote from: Jockey on December 16, 2020, 08:38:21 PM

Yeah. I was the dope who said 3,000 - 4,000 by mid-January.

I'll go on and pretend your our optimist. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on December 16, 2020, 08:49:36 PM

Quote from: Jockey on December 16, 2020, 07:03:54 PM

The "joke" is on us. We are Sweden!

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/12/16/trump-appointee-demanded-herd-immunity-strategy-446408


A trump official demanding that we kill Americans.

They.Don't.Care

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on December 16, 2020, 09:07:37 PM

He was still pushing for this even after the UK had kind of tried it and given it up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on December 17, 2020, 06:19:18 AM

Research by the Journal of the American Medical Association that was analyzed by the New York Times shows that a surprisingly high number of Americans between 25 and 44 years old have lost their lives to COVID-19.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/16/opinion/covid-deaths-young-adults.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20201217&instance_id=25129&nl=the-morning®i_id=108420427&segment_id=47190&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

The largest burden of Covid-19 has undoubtedly fallen on people older than 65, accounting for around 80 percent of deaths in the United States. But if we momentarily eclipse that from our mind’s eye, something else becomes visible: The corona of this virus.

Young adults are dying at historic rates. In research published on Wednesday in the Journal of the American Medical Association, we found that among U.S. adults ages 25 to 44, from March through the end of July, there were almost 12,000 more deaths than were expected based on historical norms.

In fact, July appears to have been the deadliest month among this age group in modern American history. Over the past 20 years, an average of 11,000 young American adults died each July. This year that number swelled to over 16,000.

The trends continued this fall. Based on prior trends, around 154,000 in this demographic had been projected to die in 2020. We surpassed that total in mid-November. Even if death rates suddenly return to normal in December — and we know they have not — we would anticipate well over 170,000 deaths among U.S. adults in this demographic by the end of 2020.

While detailed data are not yet available for all areas, we know Covid-19 is the driving force behind these excess deaths.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 18, 2020, 08:10:31 PM

ICUs are at 100% capacity in all of Central and Southern California. And new cases are continuing to climb.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on December 18, 2020, 08:19:45 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on December 18, 2020, 08:10:31 PM

ICUs are at 100% capacity in all of Central and Southern California. And new cases are continuing to climb.

Yup :(  This is ruining my planned palm springs trip (even though we were basically planning on isolating the entire trip).  Too much guilt in case anything medical were to come up.

Idiots gotta' ruin everything.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 19, 2020, 02:31:04 PM

A much more transmissible variant spreading around London?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/19/world/europe/coronavirus-uk-new-variant.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

Alarmed by a fast-spreading variant of the coronavirus, Prime Minister Boris Johnson abruptly reversed course on Saturday and imposed a wholesale lockdown on London and most of England’s southeast, banning Christmas-season gatherings beyond individual households.

The decision, which Mr. Johnson announced after an emergency meeting of his cabinet, came after the government got new evidence of a variant first detected several weeks ago in  Southeast England, which the prime minister asserted was as much as 70 percent more transmissible than previous versions.

The new measures, which take effect on Sunday, are designed, in effect, to cut off the capital and its surrounding counties from the rest of England. They are the most severe measures the British government has taken since it imposed a lockdown on the country back in March, and reflect a fear that the new variant could supercharge the transmission of the virus as winter takes hold.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on December 19, 2020, 04:22:34 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on December 19, 2020, 02:31:04 PM

A much more transmissible variant spreading around London?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/19/world/europe/coronavirus-uk-new-variant.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

Alarmed by a fast-spreading variant of the coronavirus, Prime Minister Boris Johnson abruptly reversed course on Saturday and imposed a wholesale lockdown on London and most of England’s southeast, banning Christmas-season gatherings beyond individual households.

The decision, which Mr. Johnson announced after an emergency meeting of his cabinet, came after the government got new evidence of a variant first detected several weeks ago in  Southeast England, which the prime minister asserted was as much as 70 percent more transmissible than previous versions.

The new measures, which take effect on Sunday, are designed, in effect, to cut off the capital and its surrounding counties from the rest of England. They are the most severe measures the British government has taken since it imposed a lockdown on the country back in March, and reflect a fear that the new variant could supercharge the transmission of the virus as winter takes hold.

Very oddly sourced article, basing much of it what their PM said, without much science behind it.

Weird article

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 19, 2020, 05:01:00 PM

Quote from: reinko on December 19, 2020, 04:22:34 PM

Very oddly sourced article, basing much of it what their PM said, without much science behind it.

Weird article

Definitely not strong on the science. I suspect they published it because it is certainly newsworthy that London is effectively shut down and cut off from the rest of the UK.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on December 20, 2020, 02:11:54 PM

From the New York Times:

Often, Mr. [Kyle] McGowan [a former chief of staff at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention] and [his deputy] Ms. [Amanda] Campbell mediated between Dr. Redfield and agency scientists when the White House’s guidance requests and dictates would arrive: edits from Mr. Vought and Kellyanne Conway, the former White House adviser, on choirs and communion in faith communities, or suggestions from Ivanka Trump, the president’s daughter and aide, on schools.

Wait, you’re saying Ivanka overruled career employees in the CDC’s handbag design and marketing division, right? Not on anything having to do with actual scien … Oh, what fresh hell is this?

“Every time that the science clashed with the messaging, messaging won,” Mr. McGowan said.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 21, 2020, 06:33:20 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on December 19, 2020, 05:01:00 PM

Definitely not strong on the science. I suspect they published it because it is certainly newsworthy that London is effectively shut down and cut off from the rest of the UK.

Oh, its very real.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on December 21, 2020, 07:42:15 AM

The graphic that matters most ...

(https://ecp.yusercontent.com/mail?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic01.nyt.com%2Fimages%2F2020%2F12%2F21%2Fmultimedia%2F21-MORNING-DEATHINDEX%2F21-MORNING-DEATHINDEX-articleLarge.png&t=1608557943&ymreqid=3c8d0d78-3338-e941-1c7a-49000801a100&sig=DdUI8awc9HEsPz1_R1HPaQ--~D)

From the NYT, it shows how closely COVID-19 deaths track cases. Many say, "Why all the talk about cases? They're just the result of more testing." Well, that's why.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 21, 2020, 08:44:21 AM

What frequently isn't talked about is the actual number of infections is much higher than reported confirmed cases.  Not everyone who is infected gets a test to confirm.

I'd be curious to see what the statisticians think about how many actual cases there instead of confirmed cases.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on December 21, 2020, 08:51:15 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on December 21, 2020, 08:44:21 AM

What frequently isn't talked about is the actual number of infections is much higher than reported confirmed cases.  Not everyone who is infected gets a test to confirm.

I'd be curious to see what the statisticians think about how many actual cases there instead of confirmed cases.

Good timing for a manuscript ready to be published in Nature https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-03095-6

In France detection is up from 7% early in the pandemic, up to just below 50% now (estimated).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on December 21, 2020, 09:04:18 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on December 21, 2020, 08:44:21 AM

What frequently isn't talked about is the actual number of infections is much higher than reported confirmed cases.  Not everyone who is infected gets a test to confirm.

I'd be curious to see what the statisticians think about how many actual cases there instead of confirmed cases.

Yes.   Particularly among the young who were fortunate enough to be asymptomatic but capable of spreading it to their family members.     Widespread, effective, accurate anti-body testing sure would have been a nice benchmark.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on December 21, 2020, 01:28:59 PM

Quote from: tower912 on December 21, 2020, 09:04:18 AM

Yes.   Particularly among the young who were fortunate enough to be asymptomatic but capable of spreading it to their family members.     Widespread, effective, accurate anti-body testing sure would have been a nice benchmark.   

The antibody study done in Chicago recently with preliminary results (n=1,545) analyzed at the beginning of November, showed that 20% of the population had antibodies. - https://news.feinberg.northwestern.edu/2020/11/mcnally-discusses-covid-19-antibody-study-results-next-steps/

The problem is that these things take time and are a logistical problem. It's a lagging indicator, and our federal government has no appetite for trying to get good data on this thing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 21, 2020, 08:04:41 PM

The White House COVID Task Force continued airport screening for months after they realized it wasn’t working, and putting customs and immigration officials at risk.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/21/white-house-covid-task-force-kept-airport-health-screeners-in-place-despite-risk.html

In interviews with dozens of federal employees and task force officials over four months, CNBC learned that the program proved not only ineffective but dangerous from its earliest days. One former official on the White House coronavirus task force estimated that that three- to four-dozen personnel were infected by the end of May. To compare, nine travelers out of hundreds of thousands screened in the program were detected to have been infected by the end of September.

Yet the White House chose not to dismantle it, in a bid to avoid worrying the public.

 >:(

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on December 21, 2020, 09:45:39 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on December 21, 2020, 08:04:41 PM

The White House COVID Task Force continued airport screening for months after they realized it wasn’t working, and putting customs and immigration officials at risk.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/21/white-house-covid-task-force-kept-airport-health-screeners-in-place-despite-risk.html

In interviews with dozens of federal employees and task force officials over four months, CNBC learned that the program proved not only ineffective but dangerous from its earliest days. One former official on the White House coronavirus task force estimated that that three- to four-dozen personnel were infected by the end of May. To compare, nine travelers out of hundreds of thousands screened in the program were detected to have been infected by the end of September.

Yet the White House chose not to dismantle it, in a bid to avoid worrying the public.

 >:(

More criminal negligence.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on December 22, 2020, 02:13:53 PM

Dr. Birx announced that she is retiring at the end of Trump's term.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 22, 2020, 02:21:05 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on December 22, 2020, 02:13:53 PM

Dr. Birx announced that she is retiring at the end of Trump's term.

Real story is she wasn't asked to return, and if you're wondering why...

WASHINGTON (AP) — As COVID-19 cases skyrocketed before the Thanksgiving holiday weekend, Dr. Deborah Birx, coordinator of the White House coronavirus response, warned Americans to “be vigilant” and limit celebrations to “your immediate household.”

For many Americans that guidance has been difficult to abide, including for Birx herself.

The day after Thanksgiving, she traveled to one of her vacation properties on Fenwick Island in Delaware. She was accompanied by three generations of her family from two households. Birx, her husband Paige Reffe, a daughter, son-in-law and two young grandchildren were present.

https://apnews.com/article/travel-pandemics-only-on-ap-delaware-thanksgiving-52810c22488fff7e6bb70746bdc9bc61

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on December 22, 2020, 03:24:00 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on December 22, 2020, 02:21:05 PM

Real story is she wasn't asked to return, and if you're wondering why...

WASHINGTON (AP) — As COVID-19 cases skyrocketed before the Thanksgiving holiday weekend, Dr. Deborah Birx, coordinator of the White House coronavirus response, warned Americans to “be vigilant” and limit celebrations to “your immediate household.”

For many Americans that guidance has been difficult to abide, including for Birx herself.

The day after Thanksgiving, she traveled to one of her vacation properties on Fenwick Island in Delaware. She was accompanied by three generations of her family from two households. Birx, her husband Paige Reffe, a daughter, son-in-law and two young grandchildren were present.

https://apnews.com/article/travel-pandemics-only-on-ap-delaware-thanksgiving-52810c22488fff7e6bb70746bdc9bc61

Some might call her a poser.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on December 22, 2020, 04:41:11 PM

Quote from: Jockey on December 22, 2020, 03:24:00 PM

Some might call her a poser.

She made the same mistake that many made, thinking she could influence the outcome from within. Instead, just like all those others, the only thing she accomplished was ruining her reputation.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on December 22, 2020, 06:39:58 PM

If only Dr. Birx had committed some crimes on his behalf, she would have been pardoned instead of fired.

Oh well. All of us will always have the memory of Birx looking like she had just been hit on the head with an anvil as her boss was asking her to research the possibility of injecting disinfectant into the human body as a way to prevent COVID-19 infections.

That he later claimed he was being "sarcastic" is almost as funny (stoopid funny, not ha-ha funny) as the president of the United States actually thinking it was a good idea to inject humans with Lysol.

I mean, no screenwriter could have made up these last 4 years.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on December 22, 2020, 08:33:13 PM

Quote from: MU82 on December 22, 2020, 06:39:58 PM

I mean, no screenwriter could have made up these last 4 years.

I think the writers from The Three Stooges could have written his attempted coup script.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on December 22, 2020, 09:04:19 PM

Another positive of this 4 year period ending is there have been no protests or violence as a result of the elections, as promised.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 24, 2020, 10:40:18 AM

I don't know the murder/manslaughter laws in Oregon, but this man should be held to account for the 7 people who died as a result of his actions.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/23/us/oregon-covid-superspreader-action-trnd/index.html

Officials in Oregon say a "superspreader action" is likely behind two recent Covid-19 outbreaks in the state.

The action in question: A person knowingly went to work while sick and later tested positive for the virus, Douglas County officials said last week.

Two separate Covid-19 outbreaks have now been traced back to that person, officials said. Seven people died as a result of the first outbreak, and hundreds of people were forced to self-isolate over the second one.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on December 24, 2020, 11:37:47 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on December 24, 2020, 10:40:18 AM

I don't know the murder/manslaughter laws in Oregon, but this man should be held to account for the 7 people who died as a result of his actions.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/23/us/oregon-covid-superspreader-action-trnd/index.html

Officials in Oregon say a "superspreader action" is likely behind two recent Covid-19 outbreaks in the state.

The action in question: A person knowingly went to work while sick and later tested positive for the virus, Douglas County officials said last week.

Two separate Covid-19 outbreaks have now been traced back to that person, officials said. Seven people died as a result of the first outbreak, and hundreds of people were forced to self-isolate over the second one.

But ... you know ... it's all about personal freedom and personal responsibility.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 24, 2020, 01:02:23 PM

Quote from: MU82 on December 24, 2020, 11:37:47 AM

But ... you know ... it's all about personal freedom and personal responsibility.

Perfect. I hope the State of Oregon holds him 'responsible' for his actions.  ;)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on December 25, 2020, 08:24:50 AM

Mecklenburg, the largest county in NC (includes Charlotte), set a single-day record for COVID-19 deaths -- 12.

Of the dozen, 8 had no known pre-existing conditions.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on December 26, 2020, 12:09:54 PM

Quote from: MU82 on December 24, 2020, 11:37:47 AM

But ... you know ... it's all about personal freedom and personal responsibility.

Or they had no choice but to go to work because they would be fired or needed the paycheck to make ends meet.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 26, 2020, 01:08:59 PM

Quote from: ZaLiN on December 26, 2020, 12:09:54 PM

Or they had no choice but to go to work because they would be fired or needed the paycheck to make ends meet.

And that justifies spreading a known deadly pathogen that has (so far) killed at least 7 people?

There are food banks, there is a moratorium on evictions...and there is no justification for this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on December 26, 2020, 01:43:46 PM

I don’t think going to work while sick is ok, but if I am honest with myself, I don’t know how I would react if faced with the choice between going to work sick and my family not eating or becoming homeless or losing my job totally. The lack of paid sick leave is unconscionable ( and the special Covid requirement either just expired or is expiring).
I have no such wonder about people flying with symptoms or knowing they tested positive. They should be permanently barred from flying.  But then I am of the camp that does not approve if flying off for vacations during a pandemic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on December 26, 2020, 03:09:33 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on December 26, 2020, 01:43:46 PM

I don’t think going to work while sick is ok, but if I am honest with myself, I don’t know how I would react if faced with the choice between going to work sick and my family not eating or becoming homeless or losing my job totally. The lack of paid sick leave is unconscionable ( and the special Covid requirement either just expired or is expiring).
I have no such wonder about people flying with symptoms or knowing they tested positive. They should be permanently barred from flying.  But then I am of the camp that does not approve if flying off for vacations during a pandemic.

You would go homeless if you stayed home from work for ten days?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on December 26, 2020, 03:32:33 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on December 26, 2020, 01:43:46 PM

I don’t think going to work while sick is ok, but if I am honest with myself, I don’t know how I would react if faced with the choice between going to work sick and my family not eating or becoming homeless or losing my job totally. The lack of paid sick leave is unconscionable ( and the special Covid requirement either just expired or is expiring).
I have no such wonder about people flying with symptoms or knowing they tested positive. They should be permanently barred from flying.  But then I am of the camp that does not approve if flying off for vacations during a pandemic.

Sounds like we agree on a lot.

I would add that any politician who called Covid a hoax should be banned from a vaccine until the end of the line.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on December 26, 2020, 04:01:46 PM

reinko, I am lucky enough to not be in that position. But many many other people are not so lucky. And as we know, ten days means you were either asymptomatic, or very mild. Any sicker than that, you could be out longer. I’m just saying, I hope I would do the right thing, but who knows?
And we have already seen the reports about places like meatpacking plants where taking time off was actively discouraged.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on December 26, 2020, 04:03:44 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on December 26, 2020, 04:01:46 PM

reinko, I am lucky enough to not be in that position. But many many other people are not so lucky. And as we know, ten days means you were either asymptomatic, or very mild. Any sicker than that, you could be out longer. I’m just saying, I hope I would do the right thing, but who knows?
And we have already seen the reports about places like meatpacking plants where taking time off was actively discouraged.

I agree with you.  If we could agree on what we wanted business, govt and people could control this much better. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on December 26, 2020, 04:04:58 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on December 26, 2020, 04:01:46 PM

reinko, I am lucky enough to not be in that position. But many many other people are not so lucky. And as we know, ten days means you were either asymptomatic, or very mild. Any sicker than that, you could be out longer. I’m just saying, I hope I would do the right thing, but who knows?
And we have already seen the reports about places like meatpacking plants where taking time off was actively discouraged.

Hence why corporations are chomping at the bit to get liability protections.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on December 26, 2020, 05:02:35 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on December 26, 2020, 04:04:58 PM

Hence why corporations are chomping at the bit to get liability protections.

Yep. They want to be able to discriminate against sick people without facing any legal consequences.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on December 26, 2020, 06:00:20 PM

This confirms some working theories if it holds up in review. Essentially earlier response by natural or synthetic antibodies the better result. 

https://twitter.com/virusesimmunity/status/1342898928497418240?s=21 (https://twitter.com/virusesimmunity/status/1342898928497418240?s=21)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on December 26, 2020, 07:46:14 PM

Can you perhaps summarize it in English lol?
Does it say basically that if you develops a lot of antibodies early, you have a better outcome? Does this mean that giving monoclonal antibodies early on might be very helpful?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on December 26, 2020, 07:59:04 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on December 26, 2020, 07:46:14 PM

Can you perhaps summarize it in English lol?
Does it say basically that if you develops a lot of antibodies early, you have a better outcome? Does this mean that giving monoclonal antibodies early on might be very helpful?

This virologist is gathering the actual data that shows that our bodies response is determining the outcome of this disease. It has come brick by brick but I wouldn’t bet against her identifying the why a person responds negatively or in a long haul manner to this disease.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on December 26, 2020, 09:02:03 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on December 26, 2020, 01:08:59 PM

And that justifies spreading a known deadly pathogen that has (so far) killed at least 7 people?

There are food banks, there is a moratorium on evictions...and there is no justification for this.

It's hard for some people to accept this sort of help because they aren't "part of that sort of group". It isn't as simple as you saying "well there was an option to eat so they shouldn't go try and earn a paycheck'. People don't operate like that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on December 26, 2020, 09:02:47 PM

Quote from: ZaLiN on December 26, 2020, 09:02:03 PM

It's hard for some people to accept this sort of help because they aren't "part of that sort of group". It isn't as simple as you saying "well there was an option to eat so they shouldn't go try and earn a paycheck'. People don't operate like that.

People are also being told day in and day out this isn't serious.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 26, 2020, 09:17:39 PM

Quote from: ZaLiN on December 26, 2020, 09:02:03 PM

It's hard for some people to accept this sort of help because they aren't "part of that sort of group". It isn't as simple as you saying "well there was an option to eat so they shouldn't go try and earn a paycheck'. People don't operate like that.

Sounds like you are trying really hard to justify this.

It isn’t a bad cold or the flu; it’s a once-in-a-century global pandemic that has already killed hundreds of thousands in the US alone. And the article said he “knowingly” went to work sick. So yeah, I get that sometimes “it’s hard,” but these actions are so clearly wrong that there is no excuse.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on December 26, 2020, 10:39:20 PM

Quote from: ZaLiN on December 26, 2020, 09:02:47 PM

People are also being told day in and day out this isn't serious.

By a madman and his lackeys.

They are told it is extremely serious every single day by scientists and rational adults.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on December 27, 2020, 02:47:28 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on December 26, 2020, 09:17:39 PM

Sounds like you are trying really hard to justify this.

It isn’t a bad cold or the flu; it’s a once-in-a-century global pandemic that has already killed hundreds of thousands in the US alone. And the article said he “knowingly” went to work sick. So yeah, I get that sometimes “it’s hard,” but these actions are so clearly wrong that there is no excuse.

I’m not justifying s***. How many people
Have died from asymptomatic spread? We should find those people who unknowingly spread and prosecute them too. It sets a bad precedent trying to prosecute someone for something like this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on December 27, 2020, 07:37:27 AM

Agreed.   Prosecution is a bad idea.    What are we going to do, fill the prisons with people who didn't take COVID precautions?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 27, 2020, 09:35:34 AM

Quote from: ZaLiN on December 27, 2020, 02:47:28 AM

I’m not justifying s***. How many people
Have died from asymptomatic spread? We should find those people who unknowingly spread and prosecute them too. It sets a bad precedent trying to prosecute someone for something like this.

There is a dramatic legal (and moral/ethical) difference between 'knowingly' and 'unknowingly' causing harm. I didn't think I had to explain that here....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on December 27, 2020, 09:47:38 AM

I hear you, goooo, but I feel that is a slippery slope argument.  Because the next step will be trying to prosecute those who knew and did nothing.   I rarely come down on the side of corporations, but I understand why this exact argument was a sticking point in the relief bill negotiations.  And it isn't that I side with them, but I certainly see their side.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 27, 2020, 10:10:27 AM

Quote from: tower912 on December 27, 2020, 09:47:38 AM

I hear you, goooo, but I feel that is a slippery slope argument.  Because the next step will be trying to prosecute those who knew and did nothing.   I rarely come down on the side of corporations, but I understand why this exact argument was a sticking point in the relief bill negotiations.  And it isn't that I side with them, but I certainly see their side.

I see their side too, but I don't agree with it. And if we let the slippery slope guide everything, we would rarely prosecute anyone....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on December 27, 2020, 11:59:23 AM

Also, as widespread and easily spread as the virus is, the burden of proof will be ridiculous.   'Beyond a reasonable doubt' will be well nigh impossible.   Preponderance of evidence won't be much easier.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 27, 2020, 12:38:23 PM

Quote from: tower912 on December 27, 2020, 11:59:23 AM

Also, as widespread and easily spread as the virus is, the burden of proof will be ridiculous.   'Beyond a reasonable doubt' will be well nigh impossible.   Preponderance of evidence won't be much easier.

If it’s true that he “knowingly” went to work sick, it would be easy for a competent prosecutor to prove that he created an unreasonably dangerous situation by going to work. Kind of a slam dunk, actually.

Anyway, I seem to be the only person who thinks this individual should be held accountable, so I will leave it at that...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on December 27, 2020, 12:57:08 PM

I think you have a completely plausible argument.   I share your frustrations.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on December 27, 2020, 01:21:43 PM

I don’t necessarily disagree that the person should be held accountable.  I just can see situations where people have to make impossible choices. If it’s someone who isn’t living a hand-to-mouth existence, and could take sick time, say,  I would absolutely bring the hammer down.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on December 27, 2020, 01:51:24 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on December 27, 2020, 01:21:43 PM

I don’t necessarily disagree that the person should be held accountable.  I just can see situations where people have to make impossible choices. If it’s someone who isn’t living a hand-to-mouth existence, and could take sick time, say,  I would absolutely bring the hammer down.

This is the rub for me. This virus is hitting the working class the hardest because they don't have the resources to quarantine effectively, jobs that facilitate WFH, or the ability to go without a paycheck.  In a "bad facts make bad law" kind of way, I don't like the way that prosecuting somebody for going to work sick could set a real punching down precedent.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on December 27, 2020, 02:23:20 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on December 27, 2020, 12:38:23 PM

If it’s true that he “knowingly” went to work sick, it would be easy for a competent prosecutor to prove that he created an unreasonably dangerous situation by going to work. Kind of a slam dunk, actually.

Anyway, I seem to be the only person who thinks this individual should be held accountable, so I will leave it at that...

Not the only one, Goo.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GB Warrior on December 27, 2020, 02:46:02 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on December 27, 2020, 12:38:23 PM

If it’s true that he “knowingly” went to work sick, it would be easy for a competent prosecutor to prove that he created an unreasonably dangerous situation by going to work. Kind of a slam dunk, actually.

Anyway, I seem to be the only person who thinks this individual should be held accountable, so I will leave it at that...

Just want to point out that this country has made it incredibly hard for its average citizenry to do the right thing. That includes sick leave that doesn't force people to make a choice between health/public wellbeing and livelihoods.

That and about a dozen other government programs that could have made this better for society could have had this country on the other side of this. But we hate anything that smells like a handout that we spite the entire country.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 27, 2020, 03:15:11 PM

I agree completely with the comments about our society failing economically disadvantaged people, and wish we had better safety nets. And we certainly should not penalize someone simply for being poor. That said, I would hate to set a precedent that an otherwise illegal action is somehow OK just because the person was indigent.

My preference would simply be for the prosecutors to look at the applicable law and bring charges if they apply. The punishment (including financial penalties, if any) could take into account the financial status of the perpetrator.

Anyhow, interesting discussion. Peace, all.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on December 27, 2020, 04:08:41 PM

I believe it's a felony to have sex with a partner and not disclose that you have HIV.

Seems this would be a similar situation.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on December 27, 2020, 06:13:57 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on December 27, 2020, 04:08:41 PM

I believe it's a felony to have sex with a partner and not disclose that you have HIV.

Seems this would be a similar situation.

I don’t think it’s similar at all, outside of the most baseline of infectious viruses.  You’re talking about someone’s right to earn a livelihood versus sexual activity in their personal life. Other than a “non disclosure” of an infection, I feel the circumstances of both reason for interaction, intent, and whatnot are wildly different

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on December 27, 2020, 08:12:38 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on December 27, 2020, 06:13:57 PM

I don’t think it’s similar at all, outside of the most baseline of infectious viruses.  You’re talking about someone’s right to earn a livelihood versus sexual activity in their personal life. Other than a “non disclosure” of an infection, I feel the circumstances of both reason for interaction, intent, and whatnot are wildly different

Ya. Non-disclosure is what I was after.

Ultimately, we do a crap job in this country of providing adequate support and resources so that sick people - regardless of illness - feel safe/secure in taking time off to stay home from work so we can prevent community spread of disease

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on December 27, 2020, 11:50:47 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on December 27, 2020, 08:12:38 PM

Ya. Non-disclosure is what I was after.

Ultimately, we do a crap job in this country of providing adequate support and resources so that sick people - regardless of illness - feel safe/secure in taking time off to stay home from work so we can prevent community spread of disease

FWIW, I think it’s cultural beyond just the pandemic. Think of how many coworkers you can think of in a cube/office setting hacking away that if you know them well enough, you can’t help but say “GO THE HELL HOME.” And I’m talking people that aren’t hourly, wouldn’t have to deviate from already scheduled/planned childcare, and who have 3-4 weeks of vacation time. Not people nursing their 5 days so they can see family at holidays.  Lots of people refuse to admit they need to stay home and just be sick

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on December 28, 2020, 06:32:59 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on December 27, 2020, 11:50:47 PM

FWIW, I think it’s cultural beyond just the pandemic. Think of how many coworkers you can think of in a cube/office setting hacking away that if you know them well enough, you can’t help but say “GO THE HELL HOME.” And I’m talking people that aren’t hourly, wouldn’t have to deviate from already scheduled/planned childcare, and who have 3-4 weeks of vacation time. Not people nursing their 5 days so they can see family at holidays.  Lots of people refuse to admit they need to stay home and just be sick

Excellent point, Wags.

For some, it's a badge of honor to never take a day off. Some will whine about never getting a day off and their employer being so reliant on them ... even though it's their choice, and they easily could take time off if they wanted to. Some are afraid - even if its an irrational fear - that if they take a week of vacation they won't be missed and/or can be easily replaced. My father-in-law worked until he was 84 and never took vacation even though he easily could have.

And yes, all of us have encountered the contagious hacker many times, proving how "tough" he or she is.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on December 28, 2020, 06:46:16 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on December 27, 2020, 11:50:47 PM

FWIW, I think it’s cultural beyond just the pandemic. Think of how many coworkers you can think of in a cube/office setting hacking away that if you know them well enough, you can’t help but say “GO THE HELL HOME.” And I’m talking people that aren’t hourly, wouldn’t have to deviate from already scheduled/planned childcare, and who have 3-4 weeks of vacation time. Not people nursing their 5 days so they can see family at holidays.  Lots of people refuse to admit they need to stay home and just be sick

Totally agree.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on December 28, 2020, 07:29:27 AM

Wags, you make a great point.    Which is one reason that WFH as much as possible was the appropriate strategy.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 29, 2020, 07:37:09 PM

First case of the mutated “British“ strain of Covid just confirmed in Colorado. Not at all surprising, but all the more reason that we need to dramatically accelerate our vaccination efforts.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/12/29/colorado-reports-first-known-us-case-new-covid-strain-uk/4079697001/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on December 29, 2020, 08:52:50 PM

Louisiana Congressman Elect Luke Letlow has died. He tested positive for COVID-19 on Dec 18th. He was hospitalized with worsening symptoms one day later. He was 41.

https://amp.thenewsstar.com/amp/4082977001?__twitter_impression=true

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on December 29, 2020, 09:20:15 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on December 29, 2020, 08:52:50 PM

Louisiana Congressman Elect Luke Letlow has died. He tested positive for COVID-19 on Dec 18th. He was hospitalized with worsening symptoms one day later. He was 41.

https://amp.thenewsstar.com/amp/4082977001?__twitter_impression=true

Sad. Too bad young people really aren't immune.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on December 30, 2020, 07:49:10 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on December 29, 2020, 08:52:50 PM

Louisiana Congressman Elect Luke Letlow has died. He tested positive for COVID-19 on Dec 18th. He was hospitalized with worsening symptoms one day later. He was 41.

https://amp.thenewsstar.com/amp/4082977001?__twitter_impression=true

He held a maskless indoor event earlier this month. He has said that we must open up the economy.

“So while we’ve been cautious and I think both the state and federal level have taken numerous precautions for COVID-19. We’re now at a place if we do not open our economy we’re in real danger.”

https://twitter.com/LukeLetlow/status/1314247318372257792?s=20

In troubled times, the Bible provides guidance. In this case , Galatians 6:7.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on December 30, 2020, 08:45:11 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on December 30, 2020, 07:49:10 AM

He held a maskless indoor event earlier this month. He has said that we must open up the economy.
In troubled times, the Bible provides guidance. In this case , Galatians 6:7.

There will never be a shortage of people out there that only have the ability to relate to what is happening to themselves at the time, either through ignorance or selfishness. Those are the people that require road trips and field trips to understand things. And even then, that only helps with some.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on December 30, 2020, 09:18:33 AM

This is an ED doctor who has been doing plenty of tweeting/research on COVID and has had a particular focus on excess mortality of the young + trying to prove or disprove the notion that suicides are up because of the harsh countermeasures of the pandemic (his data says they aren’t)

In any case some good data on the topic.

https://twitter.com/jeremyfaust/status/1344157694157082624?s=21 (https://twitter.com/jeremyfaust/status/1344157694157082624?s=21)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 30, 2020, 10:05:40 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on December 29, 2020, 08:52:50 PM

Louisiana Congressman Elect Luke Letlow has died. He tested positive for COVID-19 on Dec 18th. He was hospitalized with worsening symptoms one day later. He was 41.

https://amp.thenewsstar.com/amp/4082977001?__twitter_impression=true

Rest in Piss

You can't play on the highway, and suggest it to others, and then expect any sympathy when you get hit by a car.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on December 30, 2020, 10:10:38 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on December 30, 2020, 10:05:40 AM

Rest in Piss

You can't play on the highway, and suggest it to others, and then expect any sympathy when you get hit by a car.

How very Christian of you.

Your statement is no better than those you are vilifying.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 30, 2020, 10:44:38 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 30, 2020, 10:10:38 AM

How very Christian of you.

Your statement is no better than those you are vilifying.

1.  I'm not a Christian... having said that, I do feel bad for his family.

2.  Also I'm a nobody, and this piece of crap killed people with his actions.... and died because of them.  He's just another person.  He won't be missed except by those in his family who he probably put at risk as well.  Guess he won't be out there to covid deny, be anti-mask, and host super spreader events.  Surely you see the irony here.   Screw him.

Schadenfreude.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on December 30, 2020, 11:21:25 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on December 30, 2020, 10:44:38 AM

1.  I'm not a Christian... having said that, I do feel bad for his family.

2.  Also I'm a nobody, and this piece of crap killed people with his actions.... and died because of them.  He's just another person.  He won't be missed except by those in his family who he probably put at risk as well.  Guess he won't be out there to covid deny, be anti-mask, and host super spreader events.  Surely you see the irony here.   Screw him.

Schadenfreude.

As I said, this says a lot about you.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 30, 2020, 11:45:11 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 30, 2020, 11:21:25 AM

As I said, this says a lot about you.

What does it say?  That I don't care about this objectively terrible person dying of a disease he didn't believe in, and actively encouraged others to spread?

If he'd have coughed in people's faces and laughed about it, would that do it for you?  Where is your line?  Don't have one?  Feel great about everyone?  How about the Blackwater guys that Trump pardoned?  They murdered children for fun.  Should I feel bad when they die?  Do you actively feel bad about every single person who dies?  Or do you expect anyone to believe that you do?  How's the air up on that high horse of yours.

There is a zero chance that you felt bad when you read this story.  You probably felt nothing for this man, nor did you even know of his existence until he died.  And don't give me that, 'every death is a tragedy' trope. 

This guy put himself and others in harms way for political gain, and he paid the price of denying a deadly disease.  He died.  I didn't laugh about it, I just won't feel sorry for him, nor people like him. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on December 30, 2020, 12:04:09 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 30, 2020, 10:10:38 AM

How very Christian of you.

Your statement is no better than those you are vilifying.

The man wrecklessly endangered himself, his family, and others. Would you have the same sympathy for a drunk driver that killed himself, while endangering others?

 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Lens on December 30, 2020, 12:11:25 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on December 30, 2020, 12:04:09 PM

The man wrecklessly endangered himself, his family, and others. Would you have the same sympathy for a drunk driver that killed himself, while endangering others?

I think there is a line between not bending over backwards with sympathy and cheering / celebrating someone's death.  I feel bad for his family and I pray this opens the eyes and minds of politicians who share his same beliefs he did.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on December 30, 2020, 12:13:36 PM

You guys have really been going down some personal rabbit-holes lately.  I mean, more than usual.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on December 30, 2020, 12:46:25 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on December 30, 2020, 11:45:11 AM

What does it say?  That I don't care about this objectively terrible person dying of a disease he didn't believe in, and actively encouraged others to spread?

If he'd have coughed in people's faces and laughed about it, would that do it for you?  Where is your line?  Don't have one?  Feel great about everyone?  How about the Blackwater guys that Trump pardoned?  They murdered children for fun.  Should I feel bad when they die?  Do you actively feel bad about every single person who dies?  Or do you expect anyone to believe that you do?  How's the air up on that high horse of yours.

There is a zero chance that you felt bad when you read this story.  You probably felt nothing for this man, nor did you even know of his existence until he died.  And don't give me that, 'every death is a tragedy' trope. 

This guy put himself and others in harms way for political gain, and he paid the price of denying a deadly disease.  He died.  I didn't laugh about it, I just won't feel sorry for him, nor people like him. 

As I said, your statements are just as bad as his.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 30, 2020, 12:48:00 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 30, 2020, 12:46:25 PM

As I said, your statements are just as bad as his.

lol okay bud

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on December 30, 2020, 01:03:15 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 30, 2020, 12:46:25 PM

As I said, your statements are just as bad as his.

Do you believe all evil/bad is the same? No degrees of badness?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on December 30, 2020, 01:10:26 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 30, 2020, 12:46:25 PM

As I said, your statements are just as bad as his.

Well that's a vast over statement. There's a difference between dancing on the grave and acknowledging that his own stupidity lead to his death and possibly others thus not feeling sympathy for him. I feel empathy for his friends and family especially children and spouse but for him? No way, he could have very easily still been alive to spend New Years with his family.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on December 30, 2020, 01:39:16 PM

Quote from: The Lens on December 30, 2020, 12:11:25 PM

I think there is a line between not bending over backwards with sympathy and cheering / celebrating someone's death.  I feel bad for his family and I pray this opens the eyes and minds of politicians who share his same beliefs he did.

Did Herman Cain's death open eyes/minds?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on December 30, 2020, 01:55:13 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 30, 2020, 10:10:38 AM

How very Christian of you.

Your statement is no better than those you are vilifying.

So he's not allowed to make a a statement saying essentially don't be an idiot and expect not to die but you're allowed to make this snarky quote about Herman Cain's death aftern Ners called him a great critical thinker?

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 30, 2020, 02:12:39 PM

Apparently not critical enough however.

You're throwing stones in glass houses sultan.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on December 30, 2020, 03:08:48 PM

In fightin' amongst da woke? Shameful aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on December 30, 2020, 04:46:20 PM

Maryanne should have stayed on the island with Gilligan.   RIP Dawn Wells.  COVID got her.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on December 30, 2020, 06:34:48 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 30, 2020, 03:08:48 PM

In fightin' amongst da woke? Shameful aina?

It is amazing what can happen when one is capable of independent thought.  aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on December 30, 2020, 07:58:38 PM

"The Cruise Ship Suicides"

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2020-cruise-ship-suicides/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on December 30, 2020, 09:07:43 PM

"Indiana University Hospital CEO is under fire for saying black doctor who complained of racist treatment before dying of COVID-19 'intimidated her nursing team'"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9093969/amp/Hospital-CEO-fire-saying-black-doctor-died-COVID-intimidated-nursing-team.html?__twitter_impression=true

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on December 31, 2020, 06:14:11 PM

Super-sad story about a 51-year-old high school basketball coach with no underlying conditions who died after getting infected with COVID-19.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/scott-fowler/article248151610.html?ac_cid=DM354898&ac_bid=-994577923

None of us are doing OK this week. On Sunday night, Jamie Seitz died. The cause of death was COVID-19, according to his family. He was 51 years old.

Seitz had been teaching and coaching as usual until early December. He had no known underlying health conditions. He left behind his wife, Liz, his 17-year-old son, Carter, his 13-year-old daughter, Peyton, and a school that is utterly devastated.

One week before he died, on Dec. 20, Seitz and I had a text conversation. The coach was inside his hospital room. The family had rigged it up with a Nerf basketball goal hanging off the TV, one they bought at Target at his daughter’s suggestion so he could think about something besides his oxygen levels.

Seitz was unable to speak because of shortness of breath, but he could use his phone. He told me that his COVID-19 diagnosis, first received Dec. 9, had been complicated by pneumonia. Breathing was difficult when he moved in any direction.

“If I turn, I can’t breathe,” he texted. “If I sit up, I can’t breathe.”

But like a good coach, Seitz mainly wanted to praise his team — his family, nurses, doctors, students, teachers and fellow coaches.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 31, 2020, 07:32:51 PM

People in West Virginia went to a clinic to get the Moderna vaccine, and were given the Regeneron antibody treatment instead. Yikes!

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/31/us/west-virginia-coronavirus-vaccine-antibodies-mistake-trnd/index.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on December 31, 2020, 11:37:15 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on December 31, 2020, 07:32:51 PM

People in West Virginia went to a clinic to get the Moderna vaccine, and were given the Regeneron antibody treatment instead. Yikes!

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/31/us/west-virginia-coronavirus-vaccine-antibodies-mistake-trnd/index.html

tomato ... tomahto

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on January 01, 2021, 02:36:10 PM

This is not good for those hoping that herd immunity can be reached naturally.  Manaus may have the most spread in the world as percentage of population.

https://twitter.com/covidserology/status/1345069530138038272?s=21 (https://twitter.com/covidserology/status/1345069530138038272?s=21)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 01, 2021, 04:15:38 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on January 01, 2021, 02:36:10 PM

This is not good for those hoping that herd immunity can be reached naturally.  Manaus may have the most spread in the world as percentage of population.

https://twitter.com/covidserology/status/1345069530138038272?s=21 (https://twitter.com/covidserology/status/1345069530138038272?s=21)

Yep. If we took the herd immunity approach from the start, the economy would be so decimated by 2025 that we would be looking back at 2020 as ‘the good old days.’

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on January 02, 2021, 12:29:00 AM

Mark Meadows, President Trump's chief of staff, reportedly convinced Trump not to introduce a nationwide mask mandate, The New York Times reported Thursday.

According to the Times, Meadows said such a mandate would alienate Trump's strongest supporters: "The base will revolt," he said.


In other words, the health of the American people didn’t matter. The election was a hell of a lot more important that a couple hundred thousand dead Americans.

18 more days till the traitorous monsters are gone. Then we can start a vaccination program.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 02, 2021, 12:33:39 PM

Maybe Mexico will want to build a wall to keep stupid and self-centered Americans out....

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/02/world/americas/virus-mexico-visitors.html?action=click&module=News&pgtype=Homepage

In November, more than half a million Americans came to Mexico — of those, almost 50,000 arrived at Mexico City’s airport, according to official figures, less than half the number of U.S. visitors who arrived in November last year, but a surge from the paltry 4,000 that came in April, when much of Mexico was shut down. Since then, numbers have ticked up steadily: between June and August, U.S. visitors more than doubled.

The surge, however, comes as Mexico City enters a critical phase of the pandemic; hospitals are so stretched that many sick people are staying home as their relatives struggle to buy them oxygen. The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention advised Americans to avoid all travel to Mexico.

The capital’s health care system “is basically overwhelmed,” said Mr. Tello, via WhatsApp message. “The worst is yet to come.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on January 02, 2021, 12:43:28 PM

https://universalparksnewstoday.com/2020/12/photos-video-massive-crowds-descend-upon-universal-orlando-resort-for-new-years-eve-theme-parks-not-yet-closed-for-capacity/

New Year’s Eve at Universal. At daybreak, for early opening. It looked nuts.
We are never getting out of this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 02, 2021, 01:20:14 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on January 02, 2021, 12:43:28 PM

https://universalparksnewstoday.com/2020/12/photos-video-massive-crowds-descend-upon-universal-orlando-resort-for-new-years-eve-theme-parks-not-yet-closed-for-capacity/

New Year’s Eve at Universal. At daybreak, for early opening. It looked nuts.
We are never getting out of this.

After all these months, it's heartbreaking that so many people either don't know or don't care that masks have to cover their noses to be effective. If the administration had taken this seriously, it would have mandated masks as soon as CDC recommended them, and blanketed the country with PSAs so every American knows exactly how to wear them properly.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on January 02, 2021, 02:05:43 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on January 02, 2021, 01:20:14 PM

After all these months, it's heartbreaking that so many people either don't know or don't care that masks have to cover their noses to be effective. If the administration had taken this seriously, it would have mandated masks as soon as CDC recommended them, and blanketed the country with PSAs so every American knows exactly how to wear them properly.

But wouldn't that take time away from golfing and grifting?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on January 02, 2021, 02:52:37 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on January 02, 2021, 01:20:14 PM

After all these months, it's heartbreaking that so many people either don't know or don't care that masks have to cover their noses to be effective. If the administration had taken this seriously, it would have mandated masks as soon as CDC recommended them, and blanketed the country with PSAs so every American knows exactly how to wear them properly.

It wasn’t that they didn’t take it seriously. They just didn’t care a bit about Americans dying. They still don’t. This coup attempt is for the right to continue to kill us.

No effort to stop the spread. No effort to vaccinate people. No effort to help hospitals which are unable to keep up with the virus.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on January 02, 2021, 08:58:31 PM

Nm

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on January 02, 2021, 10:58:18 PM

350,000 dead Americans. Happy New Year!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on January 03, 2021, 10:30:03 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on January 02, 2021, 08:58:31 PM

https://twitter.com/MeghanMcCain/status/1345431515916869632?s=19

You likely know .. but that video of police was not about an illegal gathering.   The man was being arrested for punching an officer earlier that day.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on January 03, 2021, 10:49:07 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on January 03, 2021, 10:30:03 AM

You likely know .. but that video of police was not about an illegal gathering.   The man was being arrested for punching an officer earlier that day.

I did not. Thank you. I'll edit.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on January 03, 2021, 02:01:57 PM

Georgia’s new QAnon-supporting Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene caused a ruckus on Sunday at the swearing-in of the new Congress when she refused to wear a mask despite requests from House floor staff, according to Politico’s Jake Sherman. “2 new Republicans — including .@mtgreenee—are being told by House floor staff that they have to put their masks on. as of now, they seem to be telling the floor staff that they will not put it on. Taylor Greene is leaving the floor with the other R, who were trying to ID,” Sherman tweeted. He noted that Trump ally Louie Gohmert (R-TX)—who has pushed to overturn the presidential election result—was also standing maskless on the House floor. After Greene’s refusal to mask up, Republican and Democratic floor staff got into “a screaming match on the floor. So this Congress is going great already,” Sherman tweeted.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 05, 2021, 09:17:05 AM

Care rationing has begun in Los Angeles.

https://ktla.com/news/local-news/l-a-county-hospital-officials-race-to-discharge-patients-and-make-room-for-those-with-covid-19-but-cant-keep-up/

The situation in L.A. County hospitals is so critical that ambulance crews have been advised to try to cut back on their use of oxygen and not to bring to hospitals patients who have virtually no chance of survival. Officials now say they need to focus on patients with a greater chance of surviving.

The measures were taken as circumstances were expected to worsen in coming weeks, when patients sickened over the Christmas holiday will need treatment, leaving officials desperate for ways to increase capacity and triage care to focus on the sickest patients.

As far as I can tell, these are the first 'formal' changes in standards of care in the US because of a COVID surge. Unreal and terrifying....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on January 05, 2021, 10:14:39 AM

Predicted.   The virus is winning.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on January 05, 2021, 11:36:34 AM

We usually vacation in Jamaica in February but passed on that this year mainly because of the constantly changing restrictions. For months now JA has required all travelers to upload a negative PCR test dated less than 10 days before arrival, doable but could be a PITA.
 
 Now Canada (and it's rumored soon to be followed by the US) requires that you submit a negative PCR test less than 3 days before arrival back in CA meaning that you will have to get tested in the country you travel to. In JA you have to either go to Mobay or Kingston for a PCR test costing about $200 US. Canada has stated that if you aren't tested before checking in you will have to reschedule your flight until you have a negative test. If there are no tests available where you traveled to you must quarantine at a Gov't. approved location for 14 days upon return.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on January 05, 2021, 12:24:18 PM

Quote from: Spotcheck Billy on January 05, 2021, 11:36:34 AM

We usually vacation in Jamaica in February but passed on that this year mainly because of the constantly changing restrictions. For months now JA has required all travelers to upload a negative PCR test dated less than 10 days before arrival, doable but could be a PITA.
 
 Now Canada (and it's rumored soon to be followed by the US) requires that you submit a negative PCR test less than 3 days before arrival back in CA meaning that you will have to get tested in the country you travel to. In JA you have to either go to Mobay or Kingston for a PCR test costing about $200 US. Canada has stated that if you aren't tested before checking in you will have to reschedule your flight until you have a negative test. If there are no tests available where you traveled to you must quarantine at a Gov't. approved location for 14 days upon return.

Christ

I wonder if being vaccinated would be enough to clear those hurdles

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on January 05, 2021, 12:45:31 PM

Quote from: Spotcheck Billy on January 05, 2021, 11:36:34 AM

We usually vacation in Jamaica in February but passed on that this year mainly because of the constantly changing restrictions. For months now JA has required all travelers to upload a negative PCR test dated less than 10 days before arrival, doable but could be a PITA.
 
 Now Canada (and it's rumored soon to be followed by the US) requires that you submit a negative PCR test less than 3 days before arrival back in CA meaning that you will have to get tested in the country you travel to. In JA you have to either go to Mobay or Kingston for a PCR test costing about $200 US. Canada has stated that if you aren't tested before checking in you will have to reschedule your flight until you have a negative test. If there are no tests available where you traveled to you must quarantine at a Gov't. approved location for 14 days upon return.

Wow!

Quote from: jesmu84 on January 05, 2021, 12:24:18 PM

I wonder if being vaccinated would be enough to clear those hurdles

May allow those who are able to get a vaccine to do some cheap travel.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on January 05, 2021, 04:30:00 PM

I pop around TripAdvisor a lot, the effect of a vaccine has come up on some forums. No one expects anything to change in terms of a vaccine changing testing requirements in the near future, especially since we are a long way from a large percentage being vaccinated and also no one knows whether the vaccine will actually mean you can’t spread it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on January 06, 2021, 07:50:28 PM

As if today wasn't shocking enough, first day over 4k US covid-19 deaths. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 06, 2021, 08:02:37 PM

And if the record number of deaths isn't bad enough, this NYTimes article highlights the terribly deficient levels of DNA fingerprinting we are doing in the US.

The numbers and comments basically confirm that: (1) the prevalence of the variant is still low in the US (based on the small % of tests that show the variant); and (2) the level of testing is insufficient to proactively implement measures to cut off case surges due to increased transmissibility of the variant.

That combination horrifies me. Hospitals in Southern California are already full to the brim and beginning to instruct ambulance crews to ration care; if the variant takes hold, the case rates could surge dramatically and take the situation from bad to much, much worse. And the administration has deliberately distracted itself, its supporters and the American people from this impending catastrophe.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/06/health/coronavirus-variant-tracking.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

To imagine how bad it could get, look at the slope of the curve in the UK, and imagine that on top of the records we keep breaking. Ugh....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 07, 2021, 07:56:20 PM

Fauci says he thinks that January will get worse, and that the vaccination effort needs more time.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/07/world/fauci-coronavirus-january.html

Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, the top infectious disease expert in the United States, predicted on Thursday that the daily death toll from the coronavirus would continue to rise for weeks to come, and counseled patience with the vaccination program gearing up across the nation.

Health officials in the United States reported nearly 4,000 virus-related deaths on Wednesday, a record, and the total for the pandemic surpassed 360,000. In an interview with NPR, Dr. Fauci said the continued high toll would probably be a reflection of increased travel and gatherings over the holidays.


—————————

Keep wearing your masks and practicing social distancing, people.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on January 10, 2021, 05:25:23 PM

More work out of Yale virology lab.  They have determined that saliva test is a more accurate depiction of viral load since it may capture nasal and lung shedding.  Would be a better test when people are hospitalized to understand disease severity.

https://twitter.com/virusesimmunity/status/1348289299469500417?s=21 (https://twitter.com/virusesimmunity/status/1348289299469500417?s=21)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on January 10, 2021, 06:25:47 PM

Are they looking at viral load in the routine tests? Or just looking for the presence of the virus?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 10, 2021, 07:05:20 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on January 10, 2021, 06:25:47 PM

Are they looking at viral load in the routine tests? Or just looking for the presence of the virus?

The tests simply look for the presence of the virus. However, capturing a higher viral load in the sample would reduce the incidence of false negatives.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on January 10, 2021, 07:45:23 PM

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55574662

More anti-inflammatory treatment.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on January 12, 2021, 10:45:49 AM

Nm

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 12, 2021, 06:00:11 PM

Speaking of superspreader events....

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJ8rQ4pL3q4/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on January 12, 2021, 06:18:03 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on January 12, 2021, 06:00:11 PM

Speaking of superspreader events....

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJ8rQ4pL3q4/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

Yeah but outdoors duh

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 13, 2021, 09:21:59 AM

Somewhat lost amid the other headline news...the US again broke the previous record for deaths in a single day with 4406.

Less than two months ago (not long before Thanksgiving), 2000 deaths in a day seemed shocking. Now it looks like 'the good old days.'

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on January 13, 2021, 09:25:12 AM

And it was predicted.   But, you know, Fauci, personal freedom and 'Murca.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on January 13, 2021, 09:28:58 AM

This is all so sad...particularly with the vaccine on the horizon.  There is a chance (maybe low if the vaccine picks up) that  deaths rival the 1918 pandemic despite better care and therapeutics. 

Regardless it could have been better.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 13, 2021, 09:47:09 AM

And now researchers at tOSU have identified two new strains in Ohio, at least one of which appears more contagious than the original virus.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/13/ohio-researchers-say-theyve-identified-two-new-covid-strains-likely-originating-in-the-us.html

Edit: I'm gonna start a new thread on this....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on January 13, 2021, 03:38:24 PM

Quote from: Spotcheck Billy on January 05, 2021, 11:36:34 AM

We usually vacation in Jamaica in February but passed on that this year mainly because of the constantly changing restrictions. For months now JA has required all travelers to upload a negative PCR test dated less than 10 days before arrival, doable but could be a PITA.
 
 Now Canada (and it's rumored soon to be followed by the US) requires that you submit a negative PCR test less than 3 days before arrival back in CA meaning that you will have to get tested in the country you travel to. In JA you have to either go to Mobay or Kingston for a PCR test costing about $200 US. Canada has stated that if you aren't tested before checking in you will have to reschedule your flight until you have a negative test. If there are no tests available where you traveled to you must quarantine at a Gov't. approved location for 14 days upon return.

And as of January 26 this is a requirement to travel to the US as well. https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0112-negative-covid-19-air-passengers.html

Update on how well this is working in Jamaica, there are only 2 labs in the country that do PCR tests and Canadians found out this week that the labs are unable to take more appointments before February. Approximately 2000 Canadians were to return home this week but might be stranded.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on January 13, 2021, 03:39:43 PM

Well, if you're going to be stranded...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on January 13, 2021, 03:40:14 PM

Quote from: tower912 on January 13, 2021, 03:39:43 PM

Well, if you're going to be stranded...

No chit, hey. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 13, 2021, 03:41:09 PM

Quote from: tower912 on January 13, 2021, 03:39:43 PM

Well, if you're going to be stranded...

Ya mon!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on January 13, 2021, 03:53:29 PM

Some of those AI resorts are pretty costly, having to extend a stay can add up pretty quickly.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 13, 2021, 03:58:45 PM

Quote from: Spotcheck Billy on January 13, 2021, 03:53:29 PM

Some of those AI resorts are pretty costly, having to extend a stay can add up pretty quickly.

No kidding. I was looking at a trip to one of the Sandals resorts and when the price quote came up I thought it was really pricey, but doable for two people. Then I realized it was the price per person....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on January 13, 2021, 04:30:04 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on January 13, 2021, 03:58:45 PM

No kidding. I was looking at a trip to one of the Sandals resorts Hedonism and when the price quote came up I thought it was really pricey, but doable for two people. Then I realized it was the price per person....

Spelling error.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 13, 2021, 04:49:01 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on January 13, 2021, 04:30:04 PM

Spelling error.

Good catch! Damn spell-check is always messing up my posts....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on January 13, 2021, 05:08:41 PM

Quote from: Spotcheck Billy on January 05, 2021, 11:36:34 AM

We usually vacation in Jamaica in February but passed on that this year mainly because of the constantly changing restrictions. For months now JA has required all travelers to upload a negative PCR test dated less than 10 days before arrival, doable but could be a PITA.
 

Do you stay on the resort the entire time you are there or do you venture out? Some areas are pretty rough with the beggars and the hustlers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on January 13, 2021, 05:12:02 PM

Quote from: Jockey on January 13, 2021, 05:08:41 PM

Do you stay on the resort the entire time you are there or do you venture out? Some areas are pretty rough with the beggars and the hustlers.

That's one of the main reasons you go to an AI.  You don't have to leave the property, and at least when I went to an AI in Jamaica, non-guests aren't allowed on the property or its beach.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on January 13, 2021, 07:17:48 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on January 13, 2021, 04:30:04 PM

Spelling error.

The wild women, the rippin and the tearin.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on January 13, 2021, 08:57:00 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on January 13, 2021, 04:49:01 PM

Good catch! Damn spell-check is always messing up my posts....

Just be sure to use incognito.   Dont want to ruin the wife's surprise gift. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 13, 2021, 10:03:33 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on January 13, 2021, 08:57:00 PM

Just be sure to use incognito.   Dont want to ruin the wife's surprise gift.

The wife?!?

Oh, yeah...right. 😉

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 14, 2021, 08:38:00 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/WHO/status/1217043229427761152

Happy Anniversary, what a year it’s been. :'(

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 14, 2021, 08:49:21 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on January 14, 2021, 08:38:00 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/WHO/status/1217043229427761152

Happy Anniversary, what a year it’s been. :'(

And a year later, the WHO investigators finally get into Wuhan and are already encountering obstacles.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/14/world/covid19-coronavirus#a-who-team-is-in-china-to-investigate-the-virus-its-already-meeting-obstacles

I don't agree with POTUS' use of the term 'China virus' to advance a political narrative, and whatever the Chinese did certainly doesn't excuse the US' haphazard national 'response' to the pandemic, but the Chinese are worthy of harsh criticism for the secrecy surrounding the pandemic's origin. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 14, 2021, 08:59:17 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on January 14, 2021, 08:49:21 AM

And a year later, the WHO investigators finally get into Wuhan and are already encountering obstacles.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/14/world/covid19-coronavirus#a-who-team-is-in-china-to-investigate-the-virus-its-already-meeting-obstacles

I don't agree with POTUS' use of the term 'China virus' to advance a political narrative, and whatever the Chinese did certainly doesn't excuse the US' haphazard national 'response' to the pandemic, but the Chinese are worthy of harsh criticism for the secrecy surrounding the pandemic's origin.

Interesting piece (incredibly long) in the new Yorker a couple weeks back about the increasing likelihood that it was an unintentional leak out of the wuhan lab that started this whole thing as well.  What was widely considered and condemned as conspiracy talk just a few kk the ago is now the “Vegas favorite” as actually being the truth.

Why do you mean by political narrative?  How is naming it the Chinese virus any different then calling a virus that originated near the Ebola river, the Ebola virus? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on January 14, 2021, 09:09:38 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on January 14, 2021, 08:59:17 AM

Interesting piece (incredibly long) in the new Yorker a couple weeks back about the increasing likelihood that it was an unintentional leak out of the wuhan lab that started this whole thing as well.  What was widely considered and condemned as conspiracy talk just a few kk the ago is now the “Vegas favorite” as actually being the truth.

Why do you mean by political narrative?  How is naming it the Chinese virus any different then calling a virus that originated near the Ebola river, the Ebola virus?

Because Ebola is actually named Ebola while the "China virus" is an active attempt to place blame on China and the Chinese to spread it. It also creates racial tensions as opposed to being named after a river which would at worst make you not want to be by that river.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 14, 2021, 09:15:05 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on January 14, 2021, 08:59:17 AM

Interesting piece (incredibly long) in the new Yorker a couple weeks back about the increasing likelihood that it was an unintentional leak out of the wuhan lab that started this whole thing as well.  What was widely considered and condemned as conspiracy talk just a few kk the ago is now the “Vegas favorite” as actually being the truth.

Why do you mean by political narrative?  How is naming it the Chinese virus any different then calling a virus that originated near the Ebola river, the Ebola virus?

He is trying to deflect blame for the Administration's failure onto China. Why do you think he is the one world leader calling it the China virus, while all the other world leaders and scientific experts are calling it the 'novel coronavirus' for 'SARS-Cov2'? Do you think he's going to call the new strain discovered in the US the 'America virus'? If not, why not?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on January 14, 2021, 09:16:04 AM

Leave it to Chicos to still bring up the "what's wrong with China virus?" question...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 14, 2021, 09:29:04 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on January 14, 2021, 09:15:05 AM

He is trying to deflect blame for the Administration's failure onto China. Why do you think he is the one world leader calling it the China virus, while all the other world leaders and scientific experts are calling it the 'novel coronavirus' for 'SARS-Cov2'? Do you think he's going to call the new strain discovered in the US the 'America virus'? If not, why not?

I mean he called it the Chinese virus from day 1, long before we knew if the administration was going to handle things terribly or not but I see and understand your and GE’s point. 

Are we not on this very board calling the Ohio strain, THE “Ohio strain”?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on January 14, 2021, 09:45:36 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on January 14, 2021, 09:29:04 AM

I mean he called it the Chinese virus from day 1,

He's also an idiot.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 14, 2021, 09:48:41 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on January 14, 2021, 09:29:04 AM

I mean he called it the Chinese virus from day 1, long before we knew if the administration was going to handle things terribly or not but I see and understand your and GE’s point. 

Are we not on this very board calling the Ohio strain, THE “Ohio strain”?

It is a new strain, so yes we are calling it the Ohio strain.

But that doesn't answer my question: Do you think Trump will call it the 'America virus'? Or the 'America strain'? Or the 'Ohio strain'? If not, why not?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 14, 2021, 09:51:07 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on January 14, 2021, 09:48:41 AM

It is a new strain, so yes we are calling it the Ohio strain.

But that doesn't answer my question: Do you think Trump will call it the 'America virus'? Or the 'America strain'? Or the 'Ohio strain'? If not, why not?

Admit it, you hate Ohio!!!!

No I don’t think Trump will call it that cause I’m fairly certain he doesn’t even know the new strain exists.  Guy has exactly been in tune with reality for a couple months now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 14, 2021, 09:53:44 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on January 14, 2021, 09:45:36 AM

He's also an idiot.

Sure, not disagreeing that a good chunk of the country find him repulsive.  Just arguing that by following precedence of calling a virus by the geographical point of origin is not necessarily motivated by anything other then that. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on January 14, 2021, 10:01:51 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on January 14, 2021, 09:29:04 AM

I mean he called it the Chinese virus from day 1, long before we knew if the administration was going to handle things terribly or not but I see and understand your and GE’s point. 

Are we not on this very board calling the Ohio strain, THE “Ohio strain”?

Well played.   ;D

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on January 14, 2021, 10:03:14 AM

Isn't calling this coronavirus "Covid-19" offensive to the year 2019?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on January 14, 2021, 10:07:28 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on January 14, 2021, 10:01:51 AM

Well played.   ;D

Ha I missed that

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on January 14, 2021, 10:09:58 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on January 14, 2021, 09:53:44 AM

Sure, not disagreeing that a good chunk of the country find him repulsive.  Just arguing that by following precedence of calling a virus by the geographical point of origin is not necessarily motivated by anything other then that. 

But in this case it clearly was.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on January 14, 2021, 01:13:48 PM

Quote from: Jockey on January 13, 2021, 05:08:41 PM

Do you stay on the resort the entire time you are there or do you venture out? Some areas are pretty rough with the beggars and the hustlers.

We don't stay at AI resorts, too expensive and why pay for all of the amenities you aren't using? At an AI you feel guilty leaving the resort because you paid through the nose.  Jamaica is cheap, cold Red Stripes are about $1.50 everywhere, a cab is roughly $1/person to anywhere in town, the best restaurants won't even cost $100.

We rent a cottage, go out around town to shops, bars and restaurants. We take local cabs, Negril is very safe. Yes there are higglers walking the beach selling everything from ganja, fruit juices, fresh fruit, crafts, all kinds of food from the lobster guy that will cook a lobster on the beach to Norm the Patty man. If you don't want to buy a firm "NO" is sufficient. In about 20 trips since the 90's we have never felt unsafe or had any problems.

I have experienced more beggars and con artists in NOLA or at Blues Fest in Chicago than Negril.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 14, 2021, 01:18:24 PM

We have mentioned this here before, but it bears repeating. 'Surviving' Covid doesn't necessarily mean you are out of the woods.

Post-COVID lungs worse than the worst smokers' lungs, surgeon says

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/post-covid-lungs-worse-than-the-worst-smokers-lungs-surgeon-says/

A Texas trauma surgeon says it's rare that X-rays from any of her COVID-19 patients come back without dense scarring. Dr. Brittany Bankhead-Kendall tweeted, "Post-COVID lungs look worse than any type of terrible smoker's lung we've ever seen. And they collapse. And they clot off. And the shortness of breath lingers on... & on... & on."

"Everyone's just so worried about the mortality thing and that's terrible and it's awful," she told CBS Dallas-Fort Worth. "But man, for all the survivors and the people who have tested positive this is — it's going to be a problem."

Bankhead-Kendall, an assistant professor of surgery with Texas Tech University, in Lubbock, has treated thousands of patients since the pandemic began in March.

She says patients who've had COVID-19 symptoms show a severe chest X-ray every time, and those who were asymptomatic show a severe chest X-ray 70% to 80% of the time.

------------

We don't know how long the scarring might last, or what the effects might be on previously asymptomatic patients...but I sure don't want to find out.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on January 14, 2021, 01:26:55 PM

I know I am really glad I passed my PFT in October and am really glad I don't need to pass it again until this October.    Two months in and I can still feel a difference.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on January 14, 2021, 01:29:09 PM

Quote from: Spotcheck Billy on January 14, 2021, 01:13:48 PM

We don't stay at AI resorts, too expensive and why pay for all of the amenities you aren't using? At an AI you feel guilty leaving the resort because you paid through the nose. The gigantic buses going to Rick's for sunset all haul ass back to the AI's as soon as the sun sets because everyone paid for dinner. Jamaica is cheap, cold Red Stripes are about $1.50 everywhere, a cab is roughly $1/person to anywhere in town, the best restaurants don't have anything over $35 and that's for lobster thermidor etc.

We rent a cottage, go out around town to shops, bars and restaurants. We take local cabs, convert cash to JMD and mingle with the locals. Negril is very safe. Yes there are higglers walking the beach selling everything from ganja, fruit juices, fresh fruit, crafts, all kinds of food from the lobster guy that will cook a lobster on the beach to Norm the Patty man. If you don't want to buy a firm "NO" is sufficient. In about 20 trips since the 90's we have never felt unsafe or had any problems.

I have experienced more beggars and con artists in NOLA or at Blues Fest in Chicago than Negril.

I've never been to Jamaica, but I've had similar adventures in other noteworthy, 'swarthy' places throughout Europe.  One that comes to mind is that apparently there are people who are afraid of Naples.  I never felt unsafe, and we walked everywhere... even at night.  No one bothers you if you don't bother them.  I've found that respecting people and their culture, especially when abroad, goes a long way.  You're in their country, so adapt yourself to their customs, and you will be treated well... generally.

I've been treated far worse in the obviously touristy places than I ever have been at off-the-beaten-path places. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on January 14, 2021, 01:54:17 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on January 14, 2021, 01:29:09 PM

I've never been to Jamaica, but I've had similar adventures in other noteworthy, 'swarthy' places throughout Europe.  One that comes to mind is that apparently there are people who are afraid of Naples.  I never felt unsafe, and we walked everywhere... even at night.  No one bothers you if you don't bother them.  I've found that respecting people and their culture, especially when abroad, goes a long way.  You're in their country, so adapt yourself to their customs, and you will be treated well... generally.

I've been treated far worse in the obviously touristy places than I ever have been at off-the-beaten-path places.

Was I afraid in Naples? No. I didn’t feel like I was going to be assaulted or robbed or whatnot.  Was I fairly preoccupied with being aware of pickpockets? 1000%.  I travel pretty extensively for both work and pleasure, and nowhere was I cautioned, by associates and locals alike, to watch your things like I was when I told people I would be there. It has a well deserved reputation for petty crime.  One of my friends is engaged to an Italian from Rome. And his advice to anyone going to Naples is “Pizza, Reggia di Caserta, and wallet up here” and pats his front pocket

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on January 14, 2021, 02:01:06 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on January 14, 2021, 01:54:17 PM

Was I afraid in Naples? No. I didn’t feel like I was going to be assaulted or robbed or whatnot.  Was I fairly preoccupied with being aware of pickpockets? 1000%.  I travel pretty extensively for both work and pleasure, and nowhere was I cautioned, by associates and locals alike, to watch your things like I was when I told people I would be there. It has a well deserved reputation for petty crime.  One of my friends is engaged to an Italian from Rome. And his advice to anyone going to Naples is “Pizza, Reggia di Caserta, and wallet up here” and pats his front pocket

When I travel anywhere my wallet is always secured inside a zipped coat.  I'm not saying, "don't be cautious", obviously be aware of your surroundings... but if you go to any travel website and ask about a city... they all say 'watch out for pick pockets!'.  I'm also not suggesting to go to the Favelas in Rio or such things... but I loved Naples and never felt unsafe.  They really need public trash bins though.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on January 14, 2021, 02:37:43 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on January 14, 2021, 01:29:09 PM

I've never been to Jamaica, but I've had similar adventures in other noteworthy, 'swarthy' places throughout Europe.  One that comes to mind is that apparently there are people who are afraid of Naples.  I never felt unsafe, and we walked everywhere... even at night.  No one bothers you if you don't bother them.  I've found that respecting people and their culture, especially when abroad, goes a long way.  You're in their country, so adapt yourself to their customs, and you will be treated well... generally.

I've been treated far worse in the obviously touristy places than I ever have been at off-the-beaten-path places.

The wife and I walked all over Naples many moons ago.  I HAD to visit the ancestral homeland.  Never had an issue other than annoyingly being asked to buy travel sized tissues all the time.  Seeing Naples firsthand explained a lot of Italian-Americans things I grew up with.

I travel out of country quite a bit and I significantly reduce the wallet size before leaving on the trip and I carry in an inside jacket pocket.  If no jacket then I put in a necklace passport pouch that goes under my shirt.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on January 14, 2021, 03:09:56 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on January 14, 2021, 02:01:06 PM

When I travel anywhere my wallet is always secured inside a zipped coat.  I'm not saying, "don't be cautious", obviously be aware of your surroundings... but if you go to any travel website and ask about a city... they all say 'watch out for pick pockets!'.  I'm also not suggesting to go to the Favelas in Rio or such things... but I loved Naples and never felt unsafe.  They really need public trash bins though.

I literally said it was feedback from seasoned travelers and Italians, not Frommers or a Rick Steves message board. And different than I’d hear about London or Athens or Budapest or Porto. I loved Naples and would never dissuade anyone from going, but it’s reputation isn’t entirely unfounded

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 14, 2021, 04:57:56 PM

https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2021/01/14/mayor-lori-lightfoot-wants-to-reopen-restaurants-and-bars-as-quickly-as-possible-to-reduce-risk-of-underground-parties/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

SMDH!!!!

Daily record of deaths, new and more contagious just starting to show up in the Midwest and here we’re fighting for the reopening of bars and restaurants. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on January 14, 2021, 06:43:44 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on January 14, 2021, 04:57:56 PM

https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2021/01/14/mayor-lori-lightfoot-wants-to-reopen-restaurants-and-bars-as-quickly-as-possible-to-reduce-risk-of-underground-parties/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

SMDH!!!!

Daily record of deaths, new and more contagious just starting to show up in the Midwest and here we’re fighting for the reopening of bars and restaurants.

Wait.

Now you want lockdown?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on January 14, 2021, 06:58:29 PM

Welcome to the party, pal

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 14, 2021, 07:04:25 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on January 14, 2021, 06:43:44 PM

Wait.

Now you want lockdown?

Now you don’t? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on January 14, 2021, 07:16:16 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on January 14, 2021, 06:43:44 PM

Wait.

Now you want lockdown?

Not his state, and more importantly, not his party.   If it were, this would be a reasonable approach to try to get some business some needed money. 

I didn't watch, don't live in IL, and haven't studied their covid #s, so I'll refrain from giving my opinion.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 14, 2021, 07:24:50 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 14, 2021, 07:16:16 PM

Not his state, and more importantly, not his party.   If it were, this would be a reasonable approach to try to get some business some needed money. 

I didn't watch, don't live in IL, and haven't studied their covid #s, so I'll refrain from giving my opinion.

Not my state?  Of course I’m not in favor of lockdowns, it has shown zero ability in mitigating the spread unless it’s a hard hard shutdown of everything with curfews and the whole shebang.  The limited lockdown measures was simply playing political games with people’s livelihoods and I commend the mayor for having the cajones to be so blatant in showing what her true intentions where by not even waiting for Biden to take office to completely flip her position.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on January 14, 2021, 07:29:56 PM

...and he shows it is more about the politician involved than the policy.     Thanks for the clarification.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on January 14, 2021, 07:47:41 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on January 14, 2021, 07:24:50 PM

Not my state? 

Did you relocate from WI to IL?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on January 14, 2021, 07:54:15 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on January 14, 2021, 07:24:50 PM

Not my state?  Of course I’m not in favor of lockdowns, it has shown zero ability in mitigating the spread unless it’s a hard hard shutdown of everything with curfews and the whole shebang.  The limited lockdown measures was simply playing political games with people’s livelihoods and I commend the mayor for having the cajones to be so blatant in showing what her true intentions where by not even waiting for Biden to take office to completely flip her position.

True intentions? This isn't a political ploy, Chicago was never going to be red or even remotely in play for the R's.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on January 14, 2021, 08:02:31 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on January 14, 2021, 07:24:50 PM

Not my state?  Of course I’m not in favor of lockdowns, it has shown zero ability in mitigating the spread unless it’s a hard hard shutdown of everything with curfews and the whole shebang.  The limited lockdown measures was simply playing political games with people’s livelihoods and I commend the mayor for having the cajones to be so blatant in showing what her true intentions where by not even waiting for Biden to take office to completely flip her position.

Lol. You're so disingenuous

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 14, 2021, 08:06:51 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 14, 2021, 07:47:41 PM

Did you relocate from WI to IL?

Ahh, I see what you meant.  Thought you were saying my state didn’t also have lockdowns. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 14, 2021, 08:08:38 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on January 14, 2021, 08:02:31 PM

Lol. You're so disingenuous

And you’re inconsistent. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 14, 2021, 08:11:03 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 14, 2021, 07:47:41 PM

Did you relocate from WI to IL?

And if we’re limiting comments reserved only for the state in which you reside and for the political party you’re affiliated with then we have some serious clean up to do in these threads.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on January 14, 2021, 09:11:03 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on January 14, 2021, 08:08:38 PM

And you’re inconsistent.

What am I inconsistent about?

It's also far better to change a stance on something when you learn new information than be disingenuous when discussing a topic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 14, 2021, 09:31:36 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on January 14, 2021, 09:11:03 PM

What am I inconsistent about?

It's also far better to change a stance on something when you learn new information than be disingenuous when discussing a topic.

What has been learned regarding bars now being safe or not safe? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on January 15, 2021, 04:54:07 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on January 14, 2021, 09:31:36 PM

What has been learned regarding bars now being safe or not safe?

What am I inconsistent about?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 15, 2021, 06:38:20 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on January 15, 2021, 04:54:07 AM

What am I inconsistent about?

Your criticisms.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on January 15, 2021, 08:09:48 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on January 15, 2021, 06:38:20 AM

Your criticisms.

Such as?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 15, 2021, 12:26:16 PM

Buckle up and get ready for the next few months to get even worse. Keep wearing your mask, washing your hands and practicing social distancing...and try to get your vaccine as soon as you are eligible.

C.D.C. Warns the New Virus Variant Could Fuel Huge Spikes in Covid Cases

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/15/health/covid-cdc-variant.html

Federal health officials sounded the alarm Friday about a fast spreading, far more contagious variant of the coronavirus that is projected to become the dominant source of infection in the country by March, potentially fueling another wrenching surge of cases and deaths.

In a study released on Friday, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said that its forecasts indicated outbreaks caused by the new variant could lead to a burgeoning pandemic this winter. It called for a doubling down on preventive measures, including more intensive vaccination efforts across the country.

The variant is not known to be more deadly or to cause more severe disease. But the dire warning — hedged by limited data about just how prevalent the variant first identified in Britain has become — landed in a week where the nation’s nascent vaccination campaign was hampered by confusion and limited supplies as demand grew among growing numbers of eligible people

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on January 15, 2021, 12:45:31 PM

Perfect.

Remember the good ol' days of 2020, when most of us assumed that 2021 would have to be better?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on January 15, 2021, 01:19:14 PM

'cuz 4k dead per day is just the beginning.  And ample proof we did way too much social distancing, lockdowns, and mask wearing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on January 18, 2021, 07:49:59 AM

Sad story about how one large segment of America's refusal to admit that COVID-19 is a real and deadly threat resulted in the very preventable death of one of their own.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/18/us/politics/relph-covid-minnesota.html?campaign_id=56&emc=edit_cn_20210118&instance_id=26122&nl=on-politics-with-lisa-lerer&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=49587&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

Republicans in the Minnesota State Senate were feeling jubilant after the November election. They had held onto a slim majority following an onslaught by Democrats trying to win control. Now, it was time to party.

More than 100 senators, their spouses and their staff members gathered for a celebratory dinner at a catering hall outside the Twin Cities on Nov. 5, two days after Election Day. Masks were offered to guests on arrival, but there was little mask wearing over hours of dining and drinking, at a moment when a long-predicted surge in coronavirus infections was gripping the state.

At least four senators in attendance tested positive for Covid-19 in the days that followed. One was the Republican majority leader, Paul Gazelka, the state’s most outspoken opponent of mask mandates and shutdown orders during the pandemic. He compared his symptoms to a “moderate flu” and recovered. So did two other senators who had tested positive after the dinner.

“Our future cannot be prolonged isolation, face coverings and limited activities,” Mr. Gazelka said defiantly in announcing his positive test.

The fourth was Senator Jerry Relph, a Vietnam veteran and grandfather from St. Cloud, Minn. Struggling to breathe after testing positive for the coronavirus, he was admitted to a hospital in mid-November. He died on Dec. 18, at age 76.

His daughter Dana Relph, who watched her father fight the disease as well as the cruel isolation it forces on patients and families, is still furious at Republican leaders for holding the dinner and the refusal of Mr. Gazelka to take responsibility.

“Why are you throwing a party with 100-plus people in the middle of a pandemic?” said Ms. Relph, 44, who was not allowed to visit her father until the day he died. “Why would you choose to do that when we know people are going to be eating and drinking and taking their masks off, where their inhibitions will be lowered? Why would you even consider that responsible behavior?”

Mr. Gazelka declined an interview request, and a spokeswoman said he would not respond to Ms. Relph “out of respect for privacy requested from the family.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 18, 2021, 10:11:11 AM

We will very likely record the 400,000th death today or tomorrow, and the incoming CDC director predicts we will hit 500,000 by mid-February. Just staggering.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/534653-incoming-cdc-director-expects-500000-coronavirus-deaths-by-mid-february

I have sometimes been called out for my pessimistic views on this thread...but those numbers are even higher than I predicted several months ago. I thought the states would do more, and I (irrationally) hoped that more citizens would do the right thing. I love America, but Americans disappoint me time and time again.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on January 18, 2021, 12:49:34 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on January 18, 2021, 10:11:11 AM

We will very likely record the 400,000th death today or tomorrow, and the incoming CDC director predicts we will hit 500,000 by mid-February. Just staggering.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/534653-incoming-cdc-director-expects-500000-coronavirus-deaths-by-mid-february

I have sometimes been called out for my pessimistic views on this thread...but those numbers are even higher than I predicted several months ago. I thought the states would do more, and I (irrationally) hoped that more citizens would do the right thing. I love America, but Americans disappoint me time and time again.

What bothers me a decent bit is that some of us warned a year ago, that we might see 500k deaths in a year. Then, we were referred to as fearmongers. Now when it has happened and we highlight problems with actions, and plans, we are referred to as pessimists.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 18, 2021, 12:59:24 PM

Quote from: forgetful on January 18, 2021, 12:49:34 PM

What bothers me a decent bit is that some of us warned a year ago, that we might see 500k deaths in a year. Then, we were referred to as fearmongers. Now when it has happened and we highlight problems with actions, and plans, we are referred to as pessimists.

Yep. Reminds me of the old adage that epidemiologists know they have done their job well when the general public thinks they overreacted.

Sometimes bad stuff requires responsible people to deliver bad news.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on January 18, 2021, 02:38:58 PM

https://www.politico.eu/article/new-coronavirus-variant-identified-in-german-hospital/

This report concerns me a bit. That it was detected due to "abnormalities" in COVID test results suggests the number of mutations in the Spike protein may be more signifiant in this variant, and/or antigen tests are no longer sensitive to this strain.

I tried to get to the original report, but my German is apparently too rusty to properly understand the actual origins of detecting this virus.

If it is no longer sensitive to antigen tests, I have some concerns.

But this highlights the risk of not getting control of this now. The more mutations that accumulate, the more likely that we observe an escape mutation no longer sensitive to our vaccines.

If we are getting close to an escape mutation, the prudent thing to do would be nationwide shutdowns again, until we can get enough people vaccinated and hopefully eradicate spread.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 18, 2021, 03:12:08 PM

Quote from: forgetful on January 18, 2021, 02:38:58 PM

https://www.politico.eu/article/new-coronavirus-variant-identified-in-german-hospital/

This report concerns me a bit. That it was detected due to "abnormalities" in COVID test results suggests the number of mutations in the Spike protein may be more signifiant in this variant, and/or antigen tests are no longer sensitive to this strain.

I tried to get to the original report, but my German is apparently too rusty to properly understand the actual origins of detecting this virus.

If it is no longer sensitive to antigen tests, I have some concerns.

But this highlights the risk of not getting control of this now. The more mutations that accumulate, the more likely that we observe an escape mutation no longer sensitive to our vaccines.

If we are getting close to an escape mutation, the prudent thing to do would be nationwide shutdowns again, until we can get enough people vaccinated and hopefully eradicate spread.

Yikes - an escape mutation would be a horrific scenario.

It it appears we are at (or close to) that point, it would seem we should also consider getting the first dose of a vaccine into as many peoples' arms as possible as quickly as possible...even if it means giving the second dose a little longer after the first than originally planned. It may also be time to invoke the DPA to get as many facilities as possible cranking up production of the vaccines.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on January 19, 2021, 08:38:05 AM

For some reason, I did not know that South Carolina coach Frank Martin had been infected with the coronavirus TWICE.

He just returned from his second absence.

“I think it’s so important for so many out there to understand that this is the second time I’ve gone through this,” Martin said. “The first time didn’t kick my tail the way this one kicked my tail.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on January 19, 2021, 09:48:07 AM

Quote from: MU82 on January 19, 2021, 08:38:05 AM

For some reason, I did not know that South Carolina coach Frank Martin had been infected with the coronavirus TWICE.

He just returned from his second absence.

“I think it’s so important for so many out there to understand that this is the second time I’ve gone through this,” Martin said. “The first time didn’t kick my tail the way this one kicked my tail.”

Also, I've seen others report that the 2nd infection was worse. Some, only are asymptomatic the 2nd time, some get their "tail kicked".

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on January 19, 2021, 12:40:22 PM

Quote from: forgetful on January 19, 2021, 09:48:07 AM

Also, I've seen others report that the 2nd infection was worse. Some, only are asymptomatic the 2nd time, some get their "tail kicked".

One of my wife's co-workers, a fellow nurse, also got it twice.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on January 19, 2021, 12:55:36 PM

If people are getting it multiple times, is that bad news for vaccine efforts?  Or do we expect the vaccine to be more effective than "home grown" antibodies / t-cells?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 19, 2021, 01:09:55 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 19, 2021, 12:55:36 PM

If people are getting it multiple times, is that bad news for vaccine efforts?  Or do we expect the vaccine to be more effective than "home grown" antibodies / t-cells?

Maybe, and maybe.

The efficacy of vaccines vs natural immunity varies from one illness (and vaccine) to another. There is also variability for a given illness - people who have a milder illness may generate a weaker long-term immune response, possibly because they encountered a lower viral load in the first place).

It's too early to know the answer for certain with Covid, but some of the Moderna data suggest that the vaccine may produce a better immune response, at least in terms of the antibody levels. This recent NYTimes article discusses it nicely.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/05/health/covid-natural-immunity.html

Vaccines for some pathogens, like pneumococcal bacteria, induce better immunity than the natural infection does. Early evidence suggests that the Covid-19 vaccines may fall into this category. Volunteers who received the Moderna shot had more antibodies — one marker of immune response — in their blood than did people who had been sick with Covid-19.

In other cases, however, a natural infection is more powerful than a vaccine. For example, having mumps — which can, in rare cases, cause fertility problems in men — generates lifelong immunity, but some people who have received one or two doses of the vaccine still get the disease.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on January 19, 2021, 02:35:48 PM

Officially hit 400K.

A sad "accomplishment."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on January 19, 2021, 04:56:44 PM

Quote from: MU82 on January 19, 2021, 02:35:48 PM

Officially hit 400K.

A sad "accomplishment."

Finally, an acknowledgement of the death and suffering from the Capitol. Of course it wasn’t by the creep who helped kill a good percentage of the 400,000.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on January 19, 2021, 06:27:25 PM

Quote from: forgetful on January 19, 2021, 09:48:07 AM

Also, I've seen others report that the 2nd infection was worse. Some, only are asymptomatic the 2nd time, some get their "tail kicked".

My GF had it twice. First was kind of rough for a few days with side pneumonia and lethargy after. Second time she was asymptomatic, only knew she had it cause of an antibody test and working back on the timeline from when she had them

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on January 19, 2021, 07:03:45 PM

Man, you'd think Florida would get tired of winning all these accolades:
"With 46 cases, Florida has more instances of the UK COVID-19 variant than any other state in the U.S., according to Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTjQ4PKmUhA

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 21, 2021, 09:28:02 AM

https://www.who.int/news/item/14-12-2020-who-information-notice-for-ivd-users

Wondering if Gooo or Forgetful can break this down in more layman’s terms?

Is PCR testing no longer a reliable trusted way of identifying infection?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on January 21, 2021, 09:44:57 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on January 21, 2021, 09:28:02 AM

https://www.who.int/news/item/14-12-2020-who-information-notice-for-ivd-users

Wondering if Gooo or Forgetful can break this down in more layman’s terms?

Is PCR testing no longer a reliable trusted way of identifying infection?

Seconded, it's been hard for a layman to keep on top of testing technologies. I can barely manage my own sleep schedule.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 21, 2021, 09:55:53 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on January 21, 2021, 09:28:02 AM

https://www.who.int/news/item/14-12-2020-who-information-notice-for-ivd-users

Wondering if Gooo or Forgetful can break this down in more layman’s terms?

Is PCR testing no longer a reliable trusted way of identifying infection?

To coin a phrase from a different realm, “you’ve seen one PCR test, you’ve seen one PCR test.“

PCR testing is highly variable because it is customized by each lab. Essentially, the lab “cycles“ the sample numerous times, thereby amplifying any nucleic acids in that sample. In simple terms, the more cycles you run, the more likely you are to find nucleic acids...but the more likely you are to have false positives. The fewer cycles you run, the less likely you are to find nucleic acids...but the more likely you are to have false negatives.

Ultimately, in answer to your question, I would say that PCR testing is still extremely useful. However, the experts analyzing the results need to understand the number of cycles run by that specific test, and thus the possibility of false positives or false negatives.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on January 21, 2021, 09:58:09 AM

I actually think you all should check out Michael Mina for PCR info on Twitter.  The problem is that PCR is going to pick up when you are infectious not when you are infected.  So if used right it could be a better test if your intent is to come into close contact with others. 

So its a problem of how and what you are using a testing method for, not the testing method itself.

That is really over simplified and i am sure precisely wrong but directionally what he has to say on the topic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 21, 2021, 10:03:13 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on January 21, 2021, 09:58:09 AM

I actually think you all should check out Michael Mina for PCR info on Twitter.  The problem is that PCR is going to pick up when you are infectious not when you are infected.  So if used right it could be a better test if your intent is to come into close contact with others. 

So its a problem of how and what you are using a testing method for, not the testing method itself.

That is really over simplified and i am sure precisely wrong but directionally what he has to say on the topic.

You are correct – it is very possible to get false positives.

PCR is one of those tests where the quality of the lab where it is performed and interpreted makes a huge difference. A highly experienced and qualified lab knows when to take into account the possibility and likelihood of incorrect results.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on January 21, 2021, 10:07:54 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on January 21, 2021, 10:03:13 AM

You are correct – it is very possible to get false positives.

PCR is one of those tests where the quality of the lab where it is performed and interpreted makes a huge difference. A highly experienced and qualified lab knows when to take into account the possibility and likelihood of incorrect results.

Sorry I was reversing it too.  Antigen is what I meant.  PCR can pick up virus before and after you are infectious. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on January 21, 2021, 10:13:08 AM

I know this is a very speculative/difficult question, but what’s the general thought on when we will be back in the world having maskless, normal interactions? I saw tweets talking maybe 2022. That struck me as my hope was mid-2021.

I’ve got friend’s weddings in the spring and didn’t think we’d still be making tough decisions about traveling. However, it seems extremely unlikely it will be safe by then.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on January 21, 2021, 10:24:58 AM

Quote from: cheebs09 on January 21, 2021, 10:13:08 AM

I know this is a very speculative/difficult question, but what’s the general thought on when we will be back in the world having maskless, normal interactions? I saw tweets talking maybe 2022. That struck me as my hope was mid-2021.

The most optimistic scenario would be late fall, but I'm setting my expectations for 2022. But the vax rollout really has to kick into gear ASAP.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on January 21, 2021, 10:27:50 AM

Quote from: cheebs09 on January 21, 2021, 10:13:08 AM

I know this is a very speculative/difficult question, but what’s the general thought on when we will be back in the world having maskless, normal interactions? I saw tweets talking maybe 2022. That struck me as my hope was mid-2021.

I’ve got friend’s weddings in the spring and didn’t think we’d still be making tough decisions about traveling. However, it seems extremely unlikely it will be safe by then.

Fall probably.  I'm optimistic that school is back to normal next year... but I may be huffing serious amounts of Hopium.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 21, 2021, 10:30:17 AM

Quote from: cheebs09 on January 21, 2021, 10:13:08 AM

I know this is a very speculative/difficult question, but what’s the general thought on when we will be back in the world having maskless, normal interactions? I saw tweets talking maybe 2022. That struck me as my hope was mid-2021.

I’ve got friend’s weddings in the spring and didn’t think we’d still be making tough decisions about traveling. However, it seems extremely unlikely it will be safe by then.

Exact timelines are difficult, but I would be VERY surprised if we are back to normal by the spring. I also think it is very pessimistic of folks to say we won’t be back to normal until 2022.

Ultimately, it depends on the (1) pace of vaccine rollout, and (2) the willingness of most Americans to get vaccinated. I suspect that the first part will be solved soon, as both production and vaccination will speed up in the coming months as the kinks get worked out of the system. The second part - the willingness of far right groups and “anti-vaxxers“ to get vaccinated- is more uncertain.

Taking it all together and putting it in my blender...I think we can get back to relatively “normal“ life by late summer or sometime in the fall.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on January 21, 2021, 10:36:59 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on January 21, 2021, 10:30:17 AM

Exact timelines are difficult, but I would be VERY surprised if we are back to normal by the spring. I also think it is very pessimistic of folks to say we won’t be back to normal until 2022.

Ultimately, it depends on the (1) pace of vaccine rollout, and (2) the willingness of most Americans to get vaccinated. I suspect that the first part will be solved soon, as both production and vaccination will speed up in the coming months as the kinks get worked out of the system. The second part - the willingness of far right groups and “anti-vaxxers“ to get vaccinated- is more uncertain.

Taking it all together and putting it in my blender...I think we can get back to relatively “normal“ life by late summer or sometime in the fall.

Doesn't it also sort of depend on who you generally surround yourself with? I mean if I'm in an area that's heavily vaccinated then bars, restaurants, festivals should open more quickly than say events, bars restaurants in areas that may have a low vaccine rate.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on January 21, 2021, 10:52:00 AM

I think we will largely be back to normal by early to mid summer.  Honestly even if I am not vaccinated by summer, and most vulnerable people are, I am probably going to do a lot of the things I haven't been doing for the last year while still mitigating by wearing a mask in a crowded room and such.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on January 21, 2021, 11:56:43 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on January 21, 2021, 10:30:17 AM

Exact timelines are difficult, but I would be VERY surprised if we are back to normal by the spring. I also think it is very pessimistic of folks to say we won’t be back to normal until 2022.

Ultimately, it depends on the (1) pace of vaccine rollout, and (2) the willingness of most Americans to get vaccinated. I suspect that the first part will be solved soon, as both production and vaccination will speed up in the coming months as the kinks get worked out of the system. The second part - the willingness of far right groups and “anti-vaxxers“ to get vaccinated- is more uncertain.

Taking it all together and putting it in my blender...I think we can get back to relatively “normal“ life by late summer or sometime in the fall.

I will candidly reveal that my employees who are declining the vaccine are not right wing.  They are also not, 'anti-vaxx'ers.  My only anti-vaxx employee is signed up to get this vaccine.  So yeah, there is a broad range of people who are not easily categorized.

I think we can thank social media for the stupidity.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 21, 2021, 12:46:17 PM

Add mayor bowser with the completely coincidental timing of opening up restaurants despite yesterday having the worst Covid death total yet.....yiiipppeeeee!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on January 21, 2021, 01:14:35 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on January 21, 2021, 12:46:17 PM

Add mayor bowser with the completely coincidental timing of opening up restaurants despite yesterday having the worst Covid death total yet.....yiiipppeeeee!!

DC is actually on the downswing, 2 deaths yesterday:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/district-of-columbia/

You're not very good with #s are you?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 21, 2021, 01:27:42 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on January 21, 2021, 10:36:59 AM

Doesn't it also sort of depend on who you generally surround yourself with? I mean if I'm in an area that's heavily vaccinated then bars, restaurants, festivals should open more quickly than say events, bars restaurants in areas that may have a low vaccine rate.

Yes, there are definitely lots of variables. My prediction is just my best guess as to when the country as a whole will be back to normal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 21, 2021, 05:11:56 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 21, 2021, 01:14:35 PM

DC is actually on the downswing, 2 deaths yesterday:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/district-of-columbia/

You're not very good with #s are you?

You look at their trend lines and tell me how she can justify opening now and not say in July?  Their 7 day avg of daily deaths wasnt above 4 for about 10 of the 12 months this thing has been going on.

So based off your analysis they should have probably never closed down.  Which we would be in agreement on.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/district-of-columbia/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on January 21, 2021, 05:45:43 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on January 21, 2021, 05:11:56 PM

You look at their trend lines and tell me how she can justify opening now and not say in July?  Their 7 day avg of daily deaths wasnt above 4 for about 10 of the 12 months this thing has been going on.

So based off your analysis they should have probably never closed down.  Which we would be in agreement on.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/district-of-columbia/

Restaurants were open in July (I know because I live here) and they closed indoor dining on 12/23/2020 to combat rising #s.

🤡 🤡 🤡

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 21, 2021, 06:31:27 PM

Quote from: reinko on January 21, 2021, 05:45:43 PM

Restaurants were open in July (I know because I live here) and they closed indoor dining on 12/23/2020 to combat rising #s.

🤡 🤡 🤡

I obviously don’t live there so wasn’t aware of the back and forth policy but I was wrong.  Thought it might have been motivated by something else, glad I was wrong.  Lo siento amigo!

How is it living in DC?  Would be my personal hell.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on January 21, 2021, 06:38:44 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on January 21, 2021, 06:31:27 PM

I obviously don’t live there so wasn’t aware of the back and forth policy but I was wrong.  Thought it might have been motivated by something else, glad I was wrong.  Lo siento amigo!

How is it living in DC?  Would be my personal hell.

Lol.

Mr. Disingenuous strikes again!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 21, 2021, 06:43:35 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on January 21, 2021, 06:38:44 PM

Lol.

Mr. Disingenuous strikes again!

I apologized for making an incorrect assumption.  Rare around these parts but how is that disingenuous?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 21, 2021, 07:21:02 PM

Dr. Fauci says he feels liberated now that he can speak about the science without fear of repercussions.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/dr-anthony-fauci-says-he-now-feels-liberated-speak-freely-n1255220

"It was very clear that there were things said, be it regarding things like hydroxychloroquine and other things like that, that really was uncomfortable because they were not based in scientific fact," Fauci told reporters, speaking about the Trump administration.

"The idea that you can get up and talk about what you know, what the evidence is, what the science is," Fauci continued, "it is somewhat of a liberating feeling."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on January 22, 2021, 10:31:16 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on January 21, 2021, 06:31:27 PM

How is it living in DC?  Would be my personal hell.

Living in your own Private Idaho

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on January 22, 2021, 10:55:01 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on January 21, 2021, 06:31:27 PM

I was wrong. 

this is almost sig worthy

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on January 22, 2021, 12:43:54 PM

Dr. Brix retires, as expected.

#etttd

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 22, 2021, 07:37:01 PM

While still not certain, officials in the UK now believe that the UK variant may be more lethal than the original SARS CoV2 virus.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55768627

Previous work suggests the new variant spreads between 30% and 70% faster than others, and there are hints it is about 30% more deadly.

——————


I hope this does not turn out to be true, because the UK variant is expected to be the dominant strain in the US soon.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on January 23, 2021, 08:38:08 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on January 21, 2021, 07:21:02 PM

Dr. Fauci says he feels liberated now that he can speak about the science without fear of repercussions.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/dr-anthony-fauci-says-he-now-feels-liberated-speak-freely-n1255220

"It was very clear that there were things said, be it regarding things like hydroxychloroquine and other things like that, that really was uncomfortable because they were not based in scientific fact," Fauci told reporters, speaking about the Trump administration.

"The idea that you can get up and talk about what you know, what the evidence is, what the science is," Fauci continued, "it is somewhat of a liberating feeling."

  but gooo, there are a number of well respected doctors who believed in "the science" as well.  there was a method to other procedures that if followed, were very successful  fauci was not a "hands on " doc" and therefore was not privy to first hand efficacy of these treatments.  understand, when we were in the intial and secondary phases of treating this virus as we were getting to know more and more about it's wide ranging effects on different people.  some of these epidemiologists were using different approaches as they made sense and were showing success for them.  now remember the context were were in. we didn't have the luxury of time and double blinds to follow all of these.  but there are docs who had successes with some "non traditional" approaches. nope, toe the line and keep your mouth shut, you will be cancelled.  who does that?

  let's just say doc warrior and i came up with a "non traditional' way to treat toothaches. toothaches have become a sudden, mysterious, "pandemic-like" issue with some people with compromised immune systems, etc and actually dying as a result.   let's just imagine that doc and i found that cat piss was a very effective medicament when used with a certain type of tooth ache with patients in a specific age group at a certain stage of the tooth ache.  if it was not harmful, it was effective in most cases and its main ingredient was readily available and cheap, he and i are going to talk about it.  others may or may not use it on some of their patients.  word gets out and of course there is no science and/or double blind studies supporting it, but we felt comfortable using it in "certain" situations because it was bring people relief.  well, the higher ups get word of it and you know it's going to be critiqued and downplayed, with doc and i getting a letter from the "guru's" warning us of straying from the "standards of care"  but we saw with our own eyes, up front the efficacy.  now, more docs and patients want this treatment.  remember, we are in a crisis NOW and don't have time for double blinds.  the vaccines we are getting right now, we are the phase 3 studies. of course you know, phase 3 studies are normally done under more controlled circumstances. 

how many covid patients did fauci actually treat?  how many influenza patients has he treated within the past, oh, 5 years?  how many tummy aches has he treated?  most of dentistry's most well respected are still hands on guys.  they are apolitical and you won't see them on tv   if i had covid, i would not want dr fauci as my treating doc.  i'd much rather have dr harvey risch(top epidemiologist at yale) dr steven smith(smith center for infectious diseases) these guys had actual patients lives in their hands

   much of the "science" of treating covid that we were initially going by has been debunked, but guys like fauci continue to adhere to it-which science?  masks? lockdowns? there have been many dissenting opinions from the beginning about these 2 basic things, but they were strongly admonished and chastised with some being strongly reprimanded.  today, the studies are showing that those who were minimized are showing to be right...the science.  all depended on who your "expert" voted for and that's the science unfortunately.     

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on January 23, 2021, 08:58:16 AM

Rocket, wtf are you talking about?

Outside of the first few months, which undoubtedly had bad science attached to it, it's been pretty obvious since about May how to minimize the spread of the disease AND how to treat it.  Sure there have been small breakthroughs here and there but how this is being treated now is largely how its been treated for the past six months.

And Fauci is a public health guy.  You don't have to treat patients to disseminate the best practices to prevent and treat the disease.

Anyway, I find this whole thing ironic since you were still touting hydroxy last month since about 99.9% of practicing doctors moved on from it LONG ago.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on January 23, 2021, 09:06:20 AM

Rocket, you just might be on to something there with the cat piss, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on January 23, 2021, 10:08:41 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on January 23, 2021, 08:38:08 AM

  but gooo, there are a number of well respected doctors who believed in "the science" as well.  there was a method to other procedures that if followed, were very successful  fauci was not a "hands on " doc" and therefore was not privy to first hand efficacy of these treatments.  understand, when we were in the intial and secondary phases of treating this virus as we were getting to know more and more about it's wide ranging effects on different people.  some of these epidemiologists were using different approaches as they made sense and were showing success for them.  now remember the context were were in. we didn't have the luxury of time and double blinds to follow all of these.  but there are docs who had successes with some "non traditional" approaches. nope, toe the line and keep your mouth shut, you will be cancelled.  who does that?

  let's just say doc warrior and i came up with a "non traditional' way to treat toothaches. toothaches have become a sudden, mysterious, "pandemic-like" issue with some people with compromised immune systems, etc and actually dying as a result.   let's just imagine that doc and i found that cat piss was a very effective medicament when used with a certain type of tooth ache with patients in a specific age group at a certain stage of the tooth ache.  if it was not harmful, it was effective in most cases and its main ingredient was readily available and cheap, he and i are going to talk about it.  others may or may not use it on some of their patients.  word gets out and of course there is no science and/or double blind studies supporting it, but we felt comfortable using it in "certain" situations because it was bring people relief.  well, the higher ups get word of it and you know it's going to be critiqued and downplayed, with doc and i getting a letter from the "guru's" warning us of straying from the "standards of care"  but we saw with our own eyes, up front the efficacy.  now, more docs and patients want this treatment.  remember, we are in a crisis NOW and don't have time for double blinds.  the vaccines we are getting right now, we are the phase 3 studies. of course you know, phase 3 studies are normally done under more controlled circumstances. 

how many covid patients did fauci actually treat?  how many influenza patients has he treated within the past, oh, 5 years?  how many tummy aches has he treated?  most of dentistry's most well respected are still hands on guys.  they are apolitical and you won't see them on tv   if i had covid, i would not want dr fauci as my treating doc.  i'd much rather have dr harvey risch(top epidemiologist at yale) dr steven smith(smith center for infectious diseases) these guys had actual patients lives in their hands

   much of the "science" of treating covid that we were initially going by has been debunked, but guys like fauci continue to adhere to it-which science?  masks? lockdowns? there have been many dissenting opinions from the beginning about these 2 basic things, but they were strongly admonished and chastised with some being strongly reprimanded.  today, the studies are showing that those who were minimized are showing to be right...the science.  all depended on who your "expert" voted for and that's the science unfortunately.     

The most frustrating thing about you is that you are able to go for stretches of normality, and then I see this sort of thing... and I think to myself, "hold up, he wasn't as close as I thought, he is still dug in".

Someday I hope you see the light, brother.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on January 23, 2021, 10:50:12 AM

The concept or fascination of seeing patients has always baffled me as it relates to public health.

Isn’t that like calling for a food truck vendor to run the Fed. Or conversely giving the public health reigns to a radiologist?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on January 23, 2021, 10:54:03 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on January 23, 2021, 10:50:12 AM

The concept or fascination of seeing patients has always baffled me as it relates to public health.

Isn’t that like calling for a food truck vendor to run the Fed. Or conversely giving the public health reigns to a radiologist?

Hah nice.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on January 23, 2021, 08:44:18 PM

Or even worse, referring to a Dentist as  a "doctor".

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on January 23, 2021, 08:49:28 PM

What year were you rejected when applying to dental school?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on January 23, 2021, 08:50:44 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on January 23, 2021, 08:49:28 PM

What year were you rejected when applying to dental school?

All of them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on January 23, 2021, 09:00:37 PM

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/37/04/a4/3704a40dffa57274c3f2c39b0724cc65.gif)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Marquette Fan on January 24, 2021, 12:28:44 PM

The Miami Heat are using coronavirus sniffing dogs for fans coming to their games:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30770833/heat-use-coronavirus-sniffing-dogs-screen-fans

I hadn't heard of this being done before and found it interesting - from the article - "A German study last year found that dogs there were right 94% of the time when it came to coronavirus detection."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on January 24, 2021, 01:43:10 PM

https://www.radio.com/wbbm780/news/person-dies-hours-after-getting-covid-19-vaccine-report

I read this story and my first thought was, why and how was someone who got diagnosed with Covid in late December getting a vaccine three weeks later? Everything I have heard says to wait a while afterwards.
I have no idea what happened, or if there is a link, I am curious to see what they find out.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 24, 2021, 02:15:20 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on January 24, 2021, 01:43:10 PM

https://www.radio.com/wbbm780/news/person-dies-hours-after-getting-covid-19-vaccine-report

I read this story and my first thought was, why and how was someone who got diagnosed with Covid in late December getting a vaccine three weeks later? Everything I have heard says to wait a while afterwards.
I have no idea what happened, or if there is a link, I am curious to see what they find out.

It will be interesting what comes out of this. If there is a link, the relatively short ('within hours') timeframe suggests an allergic reaction, but I suspect we'll see.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 24, 2021, 02:26:22 PM

Epidemiologists at Columbia University estimate that even with a successful vaccine rollout, we will need to maintain our current level of social distancing, masking and other measures until late July to avoid a huge new wave of Covid infections and deaths. And he says late July "may be optimistic."

Lifting the restrictions in February instead of keeping them in place until late July could cause approximately 29 million additional infections. For comparison, that difference is more than the total number of reported cases in the US to date.

I hope y'all have comfy masks....

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/24/us/covid-vaccine-rollout.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

Social distancing, masking and other measures should remain in place until late July, “and that may be optimistic,” said Dr. Shaman. Otherwise, yet another resurgence of the virus is possible.

“There are people who are going to want to relax the controls we have in place,” Dr. Shaman said. “If we start thinking, ‘We’ve got a vaccine, there’s a light at the end of the tunnel, we can stop in a couple of months’ — that’s way too soon.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on January 24, 2021, 03:20:41 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on January 24, 2021, 01:43:10 PM

https://www.radio.com/wbbm780/news/person-dies-hours-after-getting-covid-19-vaccine-report

I read this story and my first thought was, why and how was someone who got diagnosed with Covid in late December getting a vaccine three weeks later? Everything I have heard says to wait a while afterwards.
I have no idea what happened, or if there is a link, I am curious to see what they find out.

I need to see some more data on what transpired. Wonder if this could be a case of an elderly patient with pre-existing conditions being given the vaccine in short duration after the primary infection.

If so, one would expect a more severe immune reaction and side effects. In a person already compromised that could result in an unfortunate death.

But the bottom line would be that individual should never have been given the vaccine under those circumstances.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on January 24, 2021, 03:45:57 PM

They’re looking into it. But I thought one of the questions is whether you have had a positive test recently.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on January 24, 2021, 06:39:13 PM

Sounds like herd immunity needs a pretty high level of immunity.  Bad for Scoot Atlas fans and everyone else as we vaccinate. 

https://www.economist.com/the-americas/2021/01/23/a-brazilian-city-thought-it-had-herd-immunity-it-was-wrong (https://www.economist.com/the-americas/2021/01/23/a-brazilian-city-thought-it-had-herd-immunity-it-was-wrong)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on January 24, 2021, 07:20:24 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on January 24, 2021, 06:39:13 PM

Sounds like herd immunity needs a pretty high level of immunity.  Bad for Scoot Atlas fans and everyone else as we vaccinate. 

https://www.economist.com/the-americas/2021/01/23/a-brazilian-city-thought-it-had-herd-immunity-it-was-wrong (https://www.economist.com/the-americas/2021/01/23/a-brazilian-city-thought-it-had-herd-immunity-it-was-wrong)

I can't see that entire article, so don't know if they commented on it or not, but people are looking into a new strain that emerged there similar to the South African strain. There is concern that the 2nd wave is due to the new strain being resistant to neutralizing antibodies from the first round of spread.

I think it is more likely, that the people estimating the degree of infection from the first wave were way off.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on January 24, 2021, 07:26:19 PM

Quote from: forgetful on January 24, 2021, 07:20:24 PM

I can't see that entire article, so don't know if they commented on it or not, but people are looking into a new strain that emerged there similar to the South African strain. There is concern that the 2nd wave is due to the new strain being resistant to neutralizing antibodies from the first round of spread.

I think it is more likely, that the people estimating the degree of infection from the first wave were way off.

It’s a pretty short article but essentially it said that the people of Manaus were hit so hard early and immunity estimates were that about two thirds of the population had the disease through serology studies.  The people felt like it was over and no second wave could happen and let their guard down.  We all know it’s been a second tragedy there. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on January 24, 2021, 09:07:25 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on January 24, 2021, 07:26:19 PM

It’s a pretty short article but essentially it said that the people of Manaus were hit so hard early and immunity estimates were that about two thirds of the population had the disease through serology studies.  The people felt like it was over and no second wave could happen and let their guard down.  We all know it’s been a second tragedy there.

Brazil and Manaus specifically have been devastated.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/01/new-coronavirus-variants-could-cause-more-reinfections-require-updated-vaccines

This is some the ideas I had seen about the possibility that this 2nd wave in Manaus could be due to a new variant avoiding immunity from the previous round of infections.

Let's hope that is not the case.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 24, 2021, 09:12:47 PM

Quote from: forgetful on January 24, 2021, 09:07:25 PM

Brazil and Manaus specifically have been devastated.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/01/new-coronavirus-variants-could-cause-more-reinfections-require-updated-vaccines

This is some the ideas I had seen about the possibility that this 2nd wave in Manaus could be due to a new variant avoiding immunity from the previous round of infections.

Let's hope that is not the case.

Agreed; let’s hope that isn’t the case. Because if it is, this could go from bad to a lot worse in a hurry.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on January 25, 2021, 07:22:01 AM

Not great news from the AP:

Straining to handle record numbers of COVID-19 patients, hundreds of the nation’s intensive care units are running out of space and supplies and competing to hire temporary traveling nurses at soaring rates. Many of the facilities are clustered in the South and the West.

An Associated Press analysis of federal hospital data shows that since November, the share of U.S. hospitals nearing the breaking point has doubled. More than 40% of Americans now live in areas running out of ICU space, with only 15% of beds still available.

Intensive care units are the final defense for the sickest of the sick, patients who are nearly suffocating or facing organ failure. Nurses who work in the most stressed ICUs are exhausted.

“You can’t push great people forever. Right? I mean, it just isn’t possible,” said Houston Methodist CEO Dr. Marc Boom, who is among many hospital leaders hoping that the numbers of critically ill COVID-19 patients have begun to plateau.

There’s an average of 20,000 new cases a day in Texas, which has the third-highest death count in the country and more than 13,000 people hospitalized with COVID-19-related symptoms.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on January 25, 2021, 07:32:54 AM

New cases and new hospitalizations are going down, which intuitively makes sense since we are a month out from Christmas.  Hopefully we will see the strain on hospitals ease in the coming weeks as they clear out (mostly from recovered patients.)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on January 25, 2021, 07:35:49 AM

CDC says that they don't know how many doses are actually available or in the pipeline.   That has to change

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on January 25, 2021, 10:29:19 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on January 25, 2021, 07:32:54 AM

New cases and new hospitalizations are going down, which intuitively makes sense since we are a month out from Christmas.  Hopefully we will see the strain on hospitals ease in the coming weeks as they clear out (mostly from recovered patients.)

It will be interesting to see what happens with cases vs hospitalizations as the vaccine is rolled out to more and more high risk groups, too.  Intuitively, it would make sense that as higher risk populations are vaccinated, we may see hospitalizations and deaths decrease even with steady case rates.  Even just nursing home vaccinations could have an impact.  Then again, if any of these new strains are more severe, that would probably be more than enough to offset any gains :/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 25, 2021, 12:38:31 PM

Quote from: MUBurrow on January 25, 2021, 10:29:19 AM

It will be interesting to see what happens with cases vs hospitalizations as the vaccine is rolled out to more and more high risk groups, too.  Intuitively, it would make sense that as higher risk populations are vaccinated, we may see hospitalizations and deaths decrease even with steady case rates.  Even just nursing home vaccinations could have an impact.  Then again, if any of these new strains are more severe, that would probably be more than enough to offset any gains :/

Agreed. Masks, social distancing and strategic vaccinations could get us out of this in a few months, if there were/are no clinically-significant mutations. But the mutations are beginning to become concerning...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on January 25, 2021, 01:54:17 PM

Quote from: MUBurrow on January 25, 2021, 10:29:19 AM

It will be interesting to see what happens with cases vs hospitalizations as the vaccine is rolled out to more and more high risk groups, too.  Intuitively, it would make sense that as higher risk populations are vaccinated, we may see hospitalizations and deaths decrease even with steady case rates.  Even just nursing home vaccinations could have an impact.  Then again, if any of these new strains are more severe, that would probably be more than enough to offset any gains :/

Until we start rolling out to obese people (~50% of the United States) I would expect to see reduced deaths but same-ish hospitalizations.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on January 26, 2021, 06:45:38 AM

Trump's "China travel ban" was toothless and poorly executed, which helped lead to the coronavirus being so devastating in the United States. Is Biden making a similar mistake?

From the NYT:

Australia crushed the spread of the virus in the spring partly by ending its voluntary quarantine and requiring all arrivals, including Australian citizens, to spend two weeks in a hotel. The military then helped enforce the rules. China and some other Asian countries took similar steps. In eastern Canada, tough entry rules were “one of the most successful things we’ve done,” Dr. Susan Kirkland, a Nova Scotia official, has said.

Travel bans had such a big effect, Dr. Jared Baeten, a prominent epidemiologist, told me last year, that public-health experts should re-examine their longtime skepticism of them. “Travel,” he said, “is the hallmark of the spread of this virus around the world.”

Last year, the U.S. became a case study in the ineffectiveness of limited travel rules after Trump announced a ban on entry from China. Because it didn’t apply to U.S. citizens or their immediate family members, among others, and because Trump did little to restrict entry from Europe, the measures had little effect.

The Biden administration now risks a repeat.

Infectious variants of the virus that are spreading in Brazil and South Africa could be even more dangerous than a strong new variant found in Britain, scientists say. In response, Biden is restricting entry from Europe, Brazil and South Africa, but the policy has multiple exceptions: Americans can return home from these places if they have recently tested negative, even though the test result may not be current.

The politics of travel bans are certainly thorny. Businesses worry about the economic impact (as The New Yorker’s Lawrence Wright noted in a fascinating radio interview with Terry Gross). Progressives worry about stoking anti-immigration views. And it’s already too late to keep the variants out of the U.S. entirely.

Yet travel restrictions can still save lives. The U.S. is in a race to vaccinate as many people as possible before they contract the virus, and the new variants are the biggest new challenge in doing so. “I am worried about these variants,” Dr. Vivek Murthy, the co-chair of Biden’s virus task force, said on the first episode of Ezra Klein’s Times podcast.

The U.S. travel restrictions will almost certainly have some impact by keeping out some infected people. But Biden’s policy stops short of minimizing the virus’s spread.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on January 26, 2021, 03:13:10 PM

If we’re going to have travel restrictions, we should have actual restrictions. This nonsense of ‘suggesting’ people quarantine is absurd.

And I just read on TripAdvisor a report by a guy who flew from Ireland yesterday about a packed plane with people refusing to wear masks and sit down. Ridiculous.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 26, 2021, 04:27:00 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on January 26, 2021, 03:13:10 PM

If we’re going to have travel restrictions, we should have actual restrictions. This nonsense of ‘suggesting’ people quarantine is absurd.

And I just read on TripAdvisor a report by a guy who flew from Ireland yesterday about a packed plane with people refusing to wear masks and sit down. Ridiculous.

Agree. “Suggested“ quarantines are effectively useless, and mask requirements are beneficial only if they are consistently enforced. Of all people, you would think flight attendants would be comfortable enforcing requirements. They do it all the time with seatbelts and keeping people away from the cockpit, so a mask requirement should be no different.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on January 26, 2021, 06:50:57 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on January 26, 2021, 03:13:10 PM

If we’re going to have travel restrictions, we should have actual restrictions. This nonsense of ‘suggesting’ people quarantine is absurd.

And I just read on TripAdvisor a report by a guy who flew from Ireland yesterday about a packed plane with people refusing to wear masks and sit down. Ridiculous.

What airline? I think Delta and United are threatening to ban those kinds of a-holes for life.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on January 27, 2021, 10:01:52 AM

My 32 person shop skidded through 8+ months with no one infected.
In December we had two brothers on 2nd shift out with COVID.
This month the factory floor has been whacked.  We have more than 1/2 of the machine operators out right know and a few on contact quarantine.  Seems the bunch that came back positive had a hour+ long hangout together, without masks.   
I'm spending much more time in my office more than usual this week.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on January 27, 2021, 10:05:12 AM

Aer Lingus flight to Chicago.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 27, 2021, 12:44:03 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on January 27, 2021, 10:01:52 AM

My 32 person shop skidded through 8+ months with no one infected.
In December we had two brothers on 2nd shift out with COVID.
This month the factory floor has been whacked.  We have more than 1/2 of the machine operators out right know and a few on contact quarantine.  Seems the bunch that came back positive had a hour+ long hangout together, without masks.   
I'm spending much more time in my office more than usual this week.

People get lazy and stupid, and let their guard down.

Viruses don't.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on January 27, 2021, 12:48:00 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on January 27, 2021, 12:44:03 PM

Viruses don't.

I now expect some scientific proof that viruses don't get/aren't lazy!  ;D

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on January 28, 2021, 06:42:38 AM

Positive trends...From the NYT Morning Brief (no link)

"A 35 percent decline

The United States has never experienced a sharp and sustained decline in new coronavirus cases — until, perhaps, now.

Last year, new cases in the U.S. went through cycles of rising rapidly and then leveling off or falling only modestly. That was different from the situation in many other countries, where sharp drops sometimes occurred. Look at how much bigger the declines were in Western Europe.

New cases in the U.S. have fallen 35 percent over the past three weeks. Hospitalizations have dropped, as well. Deaths have not, but they have stabilized — and the death trend typically lags the cases trend by a few weeks.

“I like the trends we are seeing, and I am personally hopeful that things are going to get better,” Jennifer Nuzzo, an epidemiologist at Johns Hopkins University, told me. “But there are a number of things that could also wrong.”

The good news
Let’s start with two possible explanations for the recent improvement:

1. We may be in the very early stages of herd immunity. Roughly 100 million Americans seem to have had the virus. (For every person who tests positive, three more have had it without being diagnosed, studies suggest.) Another 24 million people have received a vaccine shot.

Put those two groups together, and you realize that about one-third of all Americans have at least some degree of immunity from the virus. That may be enough to begin — begin — slowing the spread, as my colleague Donald G. McNeil Jr. explained on “The Daily.”

2. More Americans may be wearing masks and staying socially distant. Many still are not, as I saw on my recent 1,600-mile road trip. But any increase in safe behavior matters.

And there are signs of change. Multiple states tightened restrictions late last year. The country just elected a president who echoes scientific advice rather than flouting it. Some Americans may also be inspired by light at the end of the tunnel.

“I’m hearing from a lot of people that one of the reasons why they’re really hunkering down now is that it would be a shame to get a severe Covid case while waiting to get the vaccine,” Dr. Lee Harrison, the chairman of a local health board, told The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette this week.

Dr. Mark Escott, who runs the a local health agency around Austin, Texas, told the CBS affiliate there: “Folks are changing behavior. Folks are wearing masks, folks are staying home, and that is resulting in these decreasing cases.”

Dr. Alex Garza, a member of a pandemic task force in St. Louis, told The Associated Press: “The fact that this is happening in the winter when respiratory viruses typically spread the most shows us just how effective all the preventative measures actually are when we use them.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on January 28, 2021, 09:16:46 AM

COVID-19 response ranked by country/territory, using six criteria:

https://twitter.com/dadourado/status/1354805475255050240?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on January 28, 2021, 09:53:55 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 27, 2021, 12:48:00 PM

I now expect some scientific proof that viruses don't get/aren't lazy!  ;D

Follow da science, kin, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 28, 2021, 10:09:41 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on January 28, 2021, 09:16:46 AM

COVID-19 response ranked by country/territory, using six criteria:

https://twitter.com/dadourado/status/1354805475255050240?s=19

Not big surprise to see the US at 94th of the 98 countries ranked.

At least we 'beat' Iran, Colombia, Mexico and Brazil.... :'(

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on January 28, 2021, 03:19:05 PM

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ny-nursing-home-virus-deaths-155409236.html

Important article.  American's should have the full story.  New Yorkers most importantly.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on January 28, 2021, 03:32:39 PM

There will be more.  Hence the assumption that there is a significant undercount of deaths from COVID.   Doesn't make it right or excuse it.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 28, 2021, 07:26:47 PM

Two cases of the new South African variant has been detected in the US. It is troubling that the cases are unrelated and neither seems to be related to recent travel. That seems to indicate that the variant is already spreading throughout the community. And existing vaccines seem to be less effective against it.

This comes after the Brazilian variant has been detected in Minnesota.

Ugh....

https://www.statnews.com/2021/01/28/south-carolina-first-cases-of-south-africa-variant/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on January 28, 2021, 10:20:13 PM

Quote from: tower912 on January 28, 2021, 03:32:39 PM

There will be more.  Hence the assumption that there is a significant undercount of deaths from COVID.   Doesn't make it right or excuse it.

??? This story has nothing to do with undercounting Covid deaths. It’s about the Emmy winning New York governor covering up how many nursing home folks his policies sentenced to death. Evidently, if you died at a hospital after being transported there from a nursing home, Cuomo’s minions didn’t count the dead as nursing home fatalities. We knew his “protection” of nursing home folks was abysmal (9000 dead). Now it looks more like 14000.

.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on January 29, 2021, 06:05:14 AM

Under reporting deaths is exactly what this is about.   And NY was wrong.   Just like it was wrong to tell people to slow down testing.    There is plenty of wrong to go around.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on January 29, 2021, 07:38:29 AM

ok, so .. we're totally doomed: 

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1354995265426616321.html

Global masking and vaccination is never gonna happen.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on January 29, 2021, 08:12:26 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on January 29, 2021, 07:38:29 AM

ok, so .. we're totally doomed: 

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1354995265426616321.html

Global masking and vaccination is never gonna happen.   

I mean yeah OK.

Look, you get most people vaccinated with something that is 85-95% effective and things will be pretty much back to normal.  Yes, people will get Covid varients and some will die from them, but the vast majority of society will be able to go on.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on January 29, 2021, 09:02:58 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on January 29, 2021, 07:38:29 AM

ok, so .. we're totally doomed: 

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1354995265426616321.html

Global masking and vaccination is never gonna happen.

I'm confident that we will have global leaders who believe in and follow science, and will invest on vaccinating countries that can't afford to vaccinate themselves.

Now, the problem is the more immediate one of stopping the spread so we don't get even worse variants.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on January 30, 2021, 01:02:09 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on January 28, 2021, 06:42:38 AM

Let’s start with two possible explanations for the recent improvement:

1. We may be in the very early stages of herd immunity. Roughly 100 million Americans seem to have had the virus. (For every person who tests positive, three more have had it without being diagnosed, studies suggest.) Another 24 million people have received a vaccine shot.

Put those two groups together, and you realize that about one-third of all Americans have at least some degree of immunity from the virus. That may be enough to begin — begin — slowing the spread, as my colleague Donald G. McNeil Jr. explained on “The Daily.”

2. More Americans may be wearing masks and staying socially distant. Many still are not, as I saw on my recent 1,600-mile road trip. But any increase in safe behavior matters.

I'm late to the party, but I also think these two things play together in the way social groups self-select.  If for simplicity we say that 1 out of every 3 Americans has had it, what proportion of Americans who do not distance or mask have had it? Got to be higher right? So maybe there's legitimiate herd immunity building among those "high contraction risk" groups that is applying downward pressure on new infections, while the masked and distanced are continuing to keep their rates low by taking those measures. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on January 30, 2021, 01:06:51 PM

Quote from: MUBurrow on January 30, 2021, 01:02:09 PM

I'm late to the party, but I also think these two things play together in the way social groups self-select.  If for simplicity we say that 1 out of every 3 Americans has had it, what proportion of Americans who do not distance or mask have had it? Got to be higher right? So maybe there's legitimiate herd immunity building among those "high contraction risk" groups that is applying downward pressure on new infections, while the masked and distanced are continuing to keep their rates low by taking those measures.

I think the simple answer is too many Americans chose to gather & spread germs for the holidays, and numbers are rapidly falling from those events.  I don't think there's anything near herd immunity.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on January 30, 2021, 01:21:16 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 30, 2021, 01:06:51 PM

I think the simple answer is too many Americans chose to gather & spread germs for the holidays, and numbers are rapidly falling from those events.  I don't think there's anything near herd immunity.

This certainly happened in CT.  Measures are working to control spread but you see three distinct spikes.  Onset of cold weather-then more restrictions and downward trend- thanksgiving-Christmas.  After each spike it falls. 

Also if you subscribe to natural herd immunity you should check out Manaus.  We are no where near their first spike’s level of prevalence and they still got slammed again.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on January 31, 2021, 01:07:44 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on January 30, 2021, 01:21:16 PM

Also if you subscribe to natural herd immunity you should check out Manaus.  We are no where near their first spike’s level of prevalence and they still got slammed again.

Hearing the Manaus situation is becoming a HUGE concern in the US.  To those that have had it and think they may be "immune", please be careful.  To those that haven't had it yet - please continue to be careful.  These variants are kicking ass and don't even care what your name is.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/01/variant-covid-among-triggers-grim-surge-manaus-brazil

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 31, 2021, 09:24:45 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 31, 2021, 01:07:44 AM

Hearing the Manaus situation is becoming a HUGE concern in the US.  To those that have had it and think they may be "immune", please be careful.  To those that haven't had it yet - please continue to be careful.  These variants are kicking ass and don't even care what your name is.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/01/variant-covid-among-triggers-grim-surge-manaus-brazil

The possibility that the B.1 variant may evade the immune response of previously infected individuals is horrifying. The thought that it is more transmissible makes that even worse. The fact that it is now in the US means we could see further and more dramatic surges. And we still don't know if, and to what extent, the vaccines protect against this variant.

Masks, social distancing and other preventive measures are as important now as ever...even for people who have had Covid and/or been vaccinated.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on January 31, 2021, 11:40:26 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on January 31, 2021, 09:24:45 AM

The possibility that the B.1 variant may evade the immune response of previously infected individuals is horrifying. The thought that it is more transmissible makes that even worse. The fact that it is now in the US means we could see further and more dramatic surges. And we still don't know if, and to what extent, the vaccines protect against this variant.

Masks, social distancing and other preventive measures are as important now as ever...even for people who have had Covid and/or been vaccinated.

Agree. The only positive is that based on what is seen in other trials, there is a high probability that although the current vaccines will not prevent cases of these new variants, they very likely will protect against severe disease.

That might be the best we can hope for. And then, booster shots regularly for new variants in the future.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 01, 2021, 10:49:26 PM

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00251-4

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on February 02, 2021, 08:48:06 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 01, 2021, 10:49:26 PM

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00251-4

Despite what you may want this to say, Hards, you still need to wash your hands

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on February 02, 2021, 09:16:40 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 01, 2021, 10:49:26 PM

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00251-4

Not surprising, and in line with suggestions months ago that things like wiping down groceries and other packages is overkill.

The most effective prevention against SARS CoV2 is still wearing a mask and keeping a safe distance. And conscientious hand-washing is still a good idea, even if it isn't the primary means of presenting infections.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on February 02, 2021, 07:19:35 PM

The UK variant has a new mutation, identical to one seen in the SA and Brazil strains, that could make it more resistant to current vaccines.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/02/covid-mutation-of-most-concern-has-occurred-in-uk-variant.html

The coronavirus mutation “of most concern” that could impact vaccine efficacy has occurred spontaneously in the U.K. variant, a professor of outbreak medicine who is part of a panel that advises the British government said on Tuesday.

Ugh...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on February 02, 2021, 08:25:30 PM

The fact that the virus seems to be mutating independently but similarly around the world is interesting.  I’ve also heard these mutations were predicted by AI. So predictable—also interesting. 

This plus the efficacy of the initial vaccines (on severe COVID and death) makes me think we have a very good shot at controlling this.  We have also proven we have a plug and play vaccine system for boosters. 

Things will and are getting better daily. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on February 02, 2021, 09:29:45 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on February 02, 2021, 08:25:30 PM

The fact that the virus seems to be mutating independently but similarly around the world is interesting.  I’ve also heard these mutations were predicted by AI. So predictable—also interesting. 

This plus the efficacy of the initial vaccines (on severe COVID and death) makes me think we have a very good shot at controlling this.  We have also proven we have a plug and play vaccine system for boosters. 

Things will and are getting better daily.

Agree that we have a good shot at controlling this...but I also think it's going to get worse again before it gets better. Experts already predict that the UK strain (possibly along with the SA and/or Brazilian strains) will become the dominant strain in the US soon, and that we will likely see another increase in cases, then hospitalizations, then deaths....

One projection currently predicts somewhere between 590K and 650K deaths in the US by May 1. That's another 150,000-200,000 in just three months.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on February 02, 2021, 11:20:00 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on February 02, 2021, 07:19:35 PM

The UK variant has a new mutation, identical to one seen in the SA and Brazil strains, that could make it more resistant to current vaccines.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/02/covid-mutation-of-most-concern-has-occurred-in-uk-variant.html

The coronavirus mutation “of most concern” that could impact vaccine efficacy has occurred spontaneously in the U.K. variant, a professor of outbreak medicine who is part of a panel that advises the British government said on Tuesday.

Ugh...

Well that's certainly not good news.

It is also a good example of how evolution works, and as a counter example to what many people thought to be true (e.g. viruses mutate to become weaker).

All these strains are converging to the same set of mutations which enhance infectivity and increase their ability to evade initial antibody responses to the original strain.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on February 03, 2021, 03:54:04 PM

Quote from: Spotcheck Billy on January 05, 2021, 11:36:34 AM

 Now Canada (and it's rumored soon to be followed by the US) requires that you submit a negative PCR test less than 3 days before arrival back in CA meaning that you will have to get tested in the country you travel to. In JA you have to either go to Mobay or Kingston for a PCR test costing about $200 US. Canada has stated that if you aren't tested before checking in you will have to reschedule your flight until you have a negative test. If there are no tests available where you traveled to you must quarantine at a Gov't. approved location for 14 days upon return.

I see that Canada has now canceled all flights to/from "sunny" destinations like the Caribbean until April 30th. Travelers currently abroad will not only have to still show a negative test before returning but be tested upon arrival in CN and quarantine 3 day in a hotel at their own expense. This appears to have been announced with just 3 days notice.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 03, 2021, 04:34:38 PM

Quote from: Spotcheck Billy on February 03, 2021, 03:54:04 PM

I see that Canada has now canceled all flights to/from "sunny" destinations like the Caribbean until April 30th. Travelers currently abroad will not only have to still show a negative test before returning but be tested upon arrival in CN and quarantine 3 day in a hotel at their own expense. This appears to have been announced with just 3 days notice.

Who cares what the notice was.  These people knew the risks of traveling during covid.  The virus does not care about them being inconvenienced.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on February 03, 2021, 05:59:16 PM

Quote from: Spotcheck Billy on February 03, 2021, 03:54:04 PM

I see that Canada has now canceled all flights to/from "sunny" destinations like the Caribbean until April 30th. Travelers currently abroad will not only have to still show a negative test before returning but be tested upon arrival in CN and quarantine 3 day in a hotel at their own expense. This appears to have been announced with just 3 days notice.

Don’t forget the absurd $2K price tag for that quarantine. The measure is what it is, the abrupt “ehh we decided no more travel is allowed” when they’ve been allowing it for months and now creating a mass scramble back to the Canada is what is dumb about it.  They closed their borders to filthy Americans long ago but had no issue with people flying all over.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on February 03, 2021, 10:24:20 PM

450K American deaths.

Took 15 days to go from 400K to 450K - an average of 3,333 per day.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 04, 2021, 06:50:35 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on February 03, 2021, 05:59:16 PM

Don’t forget the absurd $2K price tag for that quarantine. The measure is what it is, the abrupt “ehh we decided no more travel is allowed” when they’ve been allowing it for months and now creating a mass scramble back to the Canada is what is dumb about it.  They closed their borders to filthy Americans long ago but had no issue with people flying all over.

USA has been a covid hotspot for months.  Caribbean countries have fared better.  Shutting down abruptly should be part of anyone's overseas travel plans.

I have zero sympathy for vacationers during covid.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on February 04, 2021, 07:48:31 AM

New cases and hospitalizations are going down.  I think people have been hunkering down in January, partly because of the bad Covid news and party because that's what they normally do in January.  We just need to be vigilant for the next couple of months.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on February 04, 2021, 07:49:51 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on February 04, 2021, 07:48:31 AM

New cases and hospitalizations are going down.  I think people have been hunkering down in January, partly because of the bad Covid news and party because that's what they normally do in January.  We just need to be vigilant for the next couple of months.

 if we can get a bad enough polar vortex and more snow we may beat this thing in the north!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 04, 2021, 07:51:34 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on February 04, 2021, 07:49:51 AM

if we can get a bad enough polar vortex and more snow we may beat this thing in the north!

Well, the next week might be cold enough to freeze the great lakes... so I think it will be plenty cold.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on February 04, 2021, 07:52:45 AM

Polar vortex might be the socially isolating event we have been waiting for.   Everybody stays home for a week plus except for necessary activities.   Air so cold people want to wear a mask.

So just parka your butt in front of the TV.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on February 04, 2021, 09:32:32 AM

We have seen new cases and hospitalizations decrease significantly before (May into June, August into September), only to see them turn around rapidly both times. And while the vaccines are a positive development, we still have vaccinated far too few (<10% have gotten first dose) to prevent a rebound.

Between loosening restrictions, more rapidly spreading and virulent variants, and the slow vaccine rollout, we will almost certainly see a turnaround over the next several weeks.

We can limit the next surge by being smart. Continuing to wear masks, keeping proper social distance, and avoiding large social gatherings.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on February 05, 2021, 08:26:14 AM

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/diseases/2019-novel-coronavirus-infection/latest-travel-health-advice/exposure-flights-cruise-ships-mass-gatherings.html?fbclid=IwAR1lNKB6-rzyqTl4JskVlwZL_o4cfXQFPbjULDWpYhPkkIbR04QdIoPUe4U#wb-auto-5

This is interesting, it’s a Canadian site that lists flights where someone tested positive afterwards for Covid. You can see if you were exposed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on February 05, 2021, 01:22:48 PM

NYTimes Wirecutter has some of the best recommendations on the internet for all things. No joke - https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-cloth-face-masks/

The Graf Lanz Zenbu mask fits well, looks great (if you're going for streetwear), and doesn't touch my mouth when I'm breathing heavy while commuting/walking around the city.

https://graf-lantz.com/pages/organic-cotton-linen-face-masks

I have a few Hedley & Bennett Wake Up & Fight masks from early in the pandemic when masks were out nationwide. The fit was originally for slim people, but the masks I got later were more "American" sized so they won't fit me. You Wisconsinites are probably their target market if you ever leave your mom's basement

https://www.hedleyandbennett.com/pages/wakeupandfightmask

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on February 05, 2021, 11:38:47 PM

This, from the Charlotte Observer, isn't good ...

In January, the deadliest month of the pandemic so far in Mecklenburg County, a higher rate of adults under 40 and those without underlying health conditions died from coronavirus complications, a new analysis of public health data by the Charlotte Observer reveals.

Adults ages 20-39 account for 1.64% of all county deaths — a roughly 50% increase since mid-October, based on data published by Mecklenburg County Public Health on Friday.

Put differently, in the first 10 months of the pandemic, seven people ages 20-39 died of coronavirus complications in Mecklenburg. Six more in that age group have died in the last month alone, even as their share of all cases dropped slightly.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on February 06, 2021, 01:46:31 AM

Quote from: tower912 on February 04, 2021, 07:52:45 AM

Polar vortex might be the socially isolating event we have been waiting for.   Everybody stays home for a week plus except for necessary activities.   Air so cold people want to wear a mask.

So just parka your butt in front of the TV.

  doesn't sound like the best conditions to prevent spread.  forcing people indoors, into closer contact?  does everyone have air purifiers in their tv or living rooms?  you do realize that staying confined indoors in closer contact actually promotes viral growth   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on February 06, 2021, 05:24:03 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on February 06, 2021, 01:46:31 AM

  doesn't sound like the best conditions to prevent spread.  forcing people indoors, into closer contact?  does everyone have air purifiers in their tv or living rooms?  you do realize that staying confined indoors in closer contact actually promotes viral growth   

I think tower is implying that people will stay home in their bubble and not really engage in a lot of social activities when its so cold. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on February 06, 2021, 07:32:58 AM

Obviously

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on February 06, 2021, 08:27:52 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on February 06, 2021, 01:46:31 AM

  doesn't sound like the best conditions to prevent spread.  forcing people indoors, into closer contact?  does everyone have air purifiers in their tv or living rooms?  you do realize that staying confined indoors in closer contact actually promotes viral growth

I love that rocket is the one trying to teach people about the virus.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on February 06, 2021, 09:41:54 AM

Quote from: BLM on February 06, 2021, 08:27:52 AM

I love that rocket is the one trying to teach people about the virus.

Maybe it’s the hydroxychloroquine talking.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on February 06, 2021, 10:11:21 AM

Or the nitrous oxide.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on February 06, 2021, 08:38:35 PM

Quote from: BLM on February 06, 2021, 08:27:52 AM

I love that rocket is the one trying to teach people about the virus.

  yeah, i keep forgetting that you guys are the "experts"

you do realize your name is racist though, right?  just change your name to #virtuesignal.   BLM could give 2 chits about african americans.  if they did, they would spend some of their money helping to make big city streets safer for all and give them school choice so they have a chance

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on February 06, 2021, 08:49:22 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on February 06, 2021, 08:38:35 PM

  yeah, i keep forgetting that you guys are the "experts"

you do realize your name is racist though, right?  just change your name to #virtuesignal.   BLM could give 2 chits about african americans.  if they did, they would spend some of their money helping to make big city streets safer for all and give them school choice so they have a chance

Lol. When you’re owned so completely that going off topic is your only option...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on February 06, 2021, 09:16:26 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on February 06, 2021, 08:38:35 PM

  yeah, i keep forgetting that you guys are the "experts"

Thanks, "healthcare professional".

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on February 06, 2021, 09:17:32 PM

Not all the stress and depression is from closed schools and businesses. A lot of it comes out of fear about getting the virus (or a family member getting it). And some probably results from the loss or incapacity of loved ones due to Covid.

Both of the latter factors are far worse than they had to be, because we did such a terrible job mitigating it early last year.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on February 06, 2021, 09:18:15 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on February 06, 2021, 08:38:35 PM

  yeah, i keep forgetting that you guys are the "experts"

you do realize your name is racist though, right?  just change your name to #virtuesignal.   BLM could give 2 chits about african americans.  if they did, they would spend some of their money helping to make big city streets safer for all and give them school choice so they have a chance

Oh good. First explaining the covid 19 virus. Now explaining racism.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on February 06, 2021, 09:25:14 PM

Quote from: BLM on February 06, 2021, 09:18:15 PM

Oh good. First explaining the covid 19 virus. Now explaining racism.

Yes. The guy who bought his business from dad is going to inform us about pulling yourself up from your own bootstraps.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on February 07, 2021, 12:27:22 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on February 06, 2021, 09:25:14 PM

Yes. The guy who bought his business from dad is going to inform us about pulling yourself up from your own bootstraps.

   so i'm disqualified from sharing my life experiences with another because i bought the practice from my dad?  as opposed to what?  buying it from an uncle?  a partner?  not sure what the school admin guy is getting at here, but i hope you ain't in guidance counseling.  if you knew anything about our field, we are like golfers.  we are on our own.  my dad hasn't been involved with the practice for 20 years.  there have been so many new advancements since he retired so swing and a miss sully   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 07, 2021, 12:42:36 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on February 07, 2021, 12:27:22 AM

   so i'm disqualified from sharing my life experiences with another because i bought the practice from my dad?  as opposed to what?  buying it from an uncle?  a partner?  not sure what the school admin guy is getting at here, but i hope you ain't in guidance counseling.  if you knew anything about our field, we are like golfers.  we are on our own.  my dad hasn't been involved with the practice for 20 years.  there have been so many new advancements since he retired so swing and a miss sully

You're not disqualified from sharing your life experiences, but don't expect anyone here to take you seriously.  You're the poster boy for white privilege and inter-generational wealth.  And you can't even acknowledge it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on February 07, 2021, 06:38:01 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 07, 2021, 12:42:36 AM

You're not disqualified from sharing your life experiences, but don't expect anyone here to take you seriously.  You're the poster boy for white privilege and inter-generational wealth.  And you can't even acknowledge it.

what does that have to do with "content of ones character"?  you guys create these artificial racial speed bumps that fails to address the problem. then go about creating some violent Marxist organization under the guise of race, using "guilt" and race as an intimidating factor to force educational and lifestyle changes upon all of us, especially our children.  it has no intentions of making the world of african americans any better.  the amounts of money they have received is insane, but do you know where it's going...it's making a select few rich while the real problem is ignored and gets worse.     

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on February 07, 2021, 07:29:42 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on February 07, 2021, 06:38:01 AM

what does that have to do with "content of ones character"?  you guys create these artificial racial speed bumps that fails to address the problem. then go about creating some violent Marxist organization under the guise of race, using "guilt" and race as an intimidating factor to force educational and lifestyle changes upon all of us, especially our children.  it has no intentions of making the world of african americans any better.  the amounts of money they have received is insane, but do you know where it's going...it's making a select few rich while the real problem is ignored and gets worse.     

I, for one, haven't created any Marxist organizations that I am aware of.  Unless you count my freshman year intramural floor hockey team.  We clearly advocated for the violent overthrow of the bourgeoisie.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 07, 2021, 09:35:52 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on February 07, 2021, 06:38:01 AM

what does that have to do with "content of ones character"?  you guys create these artificial racial speed bumps that fails to address the problem. then go about creating some violent Marxist organization under the guise of race, using "guilt" and race as an intimidating factor to force educational and lifestyle changes upon all of us, especially our children.  it has no intentions of making the world of african americans any better.  the amounts of money they have received is insane, but do you know where it's going...it's making a select few rich while the real problem is ignored and gets worse.   

It was nice of you to side step what I said.  Just admit it, your life has been made easier solely because you were a white man who was born into inter-generational wealth.

That is the first step.  This has nothing to do with BLM. 

BLM has how many kills to their record?  Zero.  Antifa has one, and he was immediately shot to death by the police.  Meanwhile, the dipsh!ts you align yourself with killed five people on 1/6 alone.  Then, do we get to count Heather Heyer?  How can you say that BLM is some violent organization when disgruntled hogs that stormed the capitol last month have killed more police, let alone regular Americans. 

How do you reconcile this in your baby brain?  I really want a straight answer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on February 07, 2021, 09:40:48 AM

C'mon man, tell us your life's professional experience. And, let's not leave out any details, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 07, 2021, 09:58:19 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on February 07, 2021, 09:40:48 AM

C'mon man, tell us your life's professional experience. And, let's not leave out any details, hey?

It isn't necessary for me to attempt to justify my success since I can admit that I have benefited greatly from being a white male who benefited greatly from inter-generational wealth.

That's my point.  If you can't even admit to the bare minimum, and you continue to attempt to justify your position in life the way rocket seems to, I can't take you seriously.  If you don't want to attempt to understand the most basic concept and acknowledge it as a fact, then why should I take anything else you say seriously?

Feel me?  I'm not minimizing his accomplishments, just pointing out that his white fragility has gotten in the way of him admitting that his whiteness alone has had a major positive impact in his life whether he chooses to admit it or not.  You can be ass poor from Appalachia, but if you leave, you still have an easier shot at success as a white guy than if you were black. 

I'm not asking for the moon and the stars here.  Just some self reflection.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on February 07, 2021, 10:03:36 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on February 07, 2021, 12:27:22 AM

   so i'm disqualified from sharing my life experiences with another because i bought the practice from my dad?  as opposed to what?  buying it from an uncle?  a partner?

Did you work at your dad's practice before buying it from him?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on February 07, 2021, 10:03:57 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on February 07, 2021, 09:40:48 AM

C'mon man, tell us your life's professional experience. And, let's not leave out any details, hey?

Shut up and drill eh?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on February 07, 2021, 12:02:13 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 07, 2021, 09:35:52 AM

It was nice of you to side step what I said.  Just admit it, your life has been made easier solely because you were a white man who was born into inter-generational wealth.

That is the first step.  This has nothing to do with BLM. 

BLM has how many kills to their record?  Zero.  Antifa has one, and he was immediately shot to death by the police.  Meanwhile, the dipsh!ts you align yourself with killed five people on 1/6 alone.  Then, do we get to count Heather Heyer?  How can you say that BLM is some violent organization when disgruntled hogs that stormed the capitol last month have killed more police, let alone regular Americans. 

 

How do you reconcile this in your baby brain?  I really want a straight answer.

 i don't know, but i worked as hard if not harder than anyone.  easy for you to say 30+ years later.  if i was bumming on the street with my same background, how does that figure into your little theory.  chit could have gone either way man.  i knew good from bad, right from wrong.  shouldn't be a difficult lesson for BLM to teach either

and your "disgruntled hogs" have had their way since ohhh, last may with encouragement from most dem pols.  i would call that incitement.  especially from heals up harris who encouraged contributions to free the anarchists so they wouldn't miss out on burning another police precinct.  as usual, the narrative from jan 6 has been polluted with the usual crap.  it was bad, should never have happened, but once again, let's hear the rest of the story and you guys will as usual, not have to answer to any of it

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on February 07, 2021, 12:04:23 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on February 07, 2021, 12:02:13 PM

 i don't know, but i worked as hard if not harder than anyone.  easy for you to say 30+ years later.  if i was bumming on the street with my same background, how does that figure into your little theory.  chit could have gone either way man.  i knew good from bad, right from wrong.  shouldn't be a difficult lesson for BLM to teach either

and your "disgruntled hogs" have had their way since ohhh, last may with encouragement from most dem pols.  i would call that incitement.  especially from heals up harris who encouraged contributions to free the anarchists so they wouldn't miss out on burning another police precinct.  as usual, the narrative from jan 6 has been polluted with the usual crap.  it was bad, should never have happened, but once again, let's hear the rest of the story and you guys will as usual, not have to answer to any of it

Yeah. No self reflection at all. Not that I was expecting much.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on February 07, 2021, 12:05:33 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on February 07, 2021, 12:02:13 PM

if i was bumming on the street with my same background, how does that figure into your little theory.

Yeah, Hards, if things were completely different, what would your little theory say then, huh? Bet you didn't think of that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on February 07, 2021, 12:12:04 PM

We interrupt this fascinating back and forth with some news about the virus.

Virus Variant First Found in Britain Now Spreading Rapidly in U.S.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/07/health/coronavirus-variant-us-spread.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

A more contagious variant of the coronavirus first found in Britain is spreading rapidly in the United States, doubling roughly every 10 days, according to a new study.

Analyzing half a million coronavirus tests and hundreds of genomes, a team of researchers predicted that in a month this variant could become predominant in the United States, potentially bringing a surge of new cases and increased risk of death.

The new research offers the first nationwide look at the history of the variant, known as B.1.1.7, since it arrived in the United States in late 2020. Last month, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention warned that B.1.1.7 could become predominant by March if it behaved the way it did in Britain. The new study confirms that projected path.

-----------------

Buckle up for the next wave....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on February 07, 2021, 12:13:26 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on February 07, 2021, 12:02:13 PM

as usual, the narrative from jan 6 has been polluted with the usual crap.  it was bad, should never have happened, but once again, let's hear the rest of the story and you guys will as usual, not have to answer to any of it

What is the rest of the story? A bunch of white supremacist Republicans smashed into the U.S. Capitol looking to murder politicians including the sitting Vice President of their own party, but the rest of the story is...? Don't leave us hanging HydroxyMan.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on February 07, 2021, 01:59:20 PM

Quote from: reinko on February 07, 2021, 10:03:57 AM

Shut up and drill eh?

Solid advice, kin, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on February 07, 2021, 10:29:50 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on February 07, 2021, 12:13:26 PM

What is the rest of the story? A bunch of white supremacist Republicans smashed into the U.S. Capitol looking to murder politicians including the sitting Vice President of their own party, but the rest of the story is...? Don't leave us hanging HydroxyMan.

I'm betting big money this is HydroxyRocket's latest bit of insanity and "the rest of the story"

https://twitter.com/RudyGiuliani/status/1358485526421110789

Rudy W. Giuliani
@RudyGiuliani
Antifa and BLM attack DC like they helped organize the January 6 attack on Congress. However, so far their role is being concealed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on February 08, 2021, 01:25:40 AM

Thanks a lot. Between the stupidity of the tweet and some of the photos in the responses, I may never have a good night’s sleep again.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 08, 2021, 09:28:36 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on February 07, 2021, 12:02:13 PM

 i don't know, but i worked as hard if not harder than anyone.  easy for you to say 30+ years later.  if i was bumming on the street with my same background, how does that figure into your little theory.  chit could have gone either way man.  i knew good from bad, right from wrong.  shouldn't be a difficult lesson for BLM to teach either

and your "disgruntled hogs" have had their way since ohhh, last may with encouragement from most dem pols.  i would call that incitement.  especially from heals up harris who encouraged contributions to free the anarchists so they wouldn't miss out on burning another police precinct.  as usual, the narrative from jan 6 has been polluted with the usual crap.  it was bad, should never have happened, but once again, let's hear the rest of the story and you guys will as usual, not have to answer to any of it

So on brand.  You didn't work harder than anyone, your basketball hoop was just 6 feet tall and you're bragging about dunking.  If you were 'bumming on the street' with your background, then you failed harder because of your privileged background.  But that happens to a lot of people.

Stop being so fragile.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on February 08, 2021, 12:42:22 PM

Folks don't have to have died to have their lives turned all upside down by having caught COVID-19.

For example, this from the LA Times:

LOS ANGELES In her quest to overcome one of COVID-19’s strangest symptoms, Mariana Castro-Salzman was willing to try anything.

The 32-year-old visited an oncologist and got a CT scan of her head. She saw an ear, nose and throat doctor. Took steroids. Went to a neurologist who put her on anti-anxiety medication.

She began sniffing essential oils every day. A homeopath prescribed bath flowers, supplements and chaga mushrooms.

And yet, nearly a year after recovering from the coronavirus, her senses of smell and taste are still scrambled. Onions and garlic evoke a nausea that has nothing to do with their actual scent. Coffee smells like a burned tire, but worse.

Because of the distorted smells, a condition known as parosmia, she has endured headaches and lost weight.

“It’s like a mind game, because you remember all the smells and tastes, but then the second you put it in your mouth, it’s nothing like it used to be,” the Los Angeles resident said. “It’s like a completely different experience.”

Loss of taste or smell may be the first thing that prompts someone to get tested for a coronavirus infection. Some studies, in fact, have found it to be the best predictor. (Researchers have even questioned whether smell tests are a better screening tool than temperature checks.)

But though a majority of people recover their senses within weeks, 10% suffer long-term smell dysfunction, some researchers estimate. In Castro-Salzman’s case, it started out with anosmia – complete loss of smell – before developing into parosmia.

Last week, I read another article about the thousands upon thousands of people who have not regained their sense of taste. It's hard for me to grasp how frustrating, how awful, that must be for them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on February 08, 2021, 01:12:51 PM

I still can't smell.   Taste is ok for the most part.  3 months in.   The good news is I can't smell my 14 year old's boy funk.   Or his shoes.  And my poop don't stink.   Crazy stuff.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on February 08, 2021, 01:15:54 PM

Quote from: MU82 on February 08, 2021, 12:42:22 PM

Folks don't have to have died to have their lives turned all upside down by having caught COVID-19.

For example, this from the LA Times:

LOS ANGELES In her quest to overcome one of COVID-19’s strangest symptoms, Mariana Castro-Salzman was willing to try anything.

The 32-year-old visited an oncologist and got a CT scan of her head. She saw an ear, nose and throat doctor. Took steroids. Went to a neurologist who put her on anti-anxiety medication.

She began sniffing essential oils every day. A homeopath prescribed bath flowers, supplements and chaga mushrooms.

And yet, nearly a year after recovering from the coronavirus, her senses of smell and taste are still scrambled. Onions and garlic evoke a nausea that has nothing to do with their actual scent. Coffee smells like a burned tire, but worse.

Because of the distorted smells, a condition known as parosmia, she has endured headaches and lost weight.

“It’s like a mind game, because you remember all the smells and tastes, but then the second you put it in your mouth, it’s nothing like it used to be,” the Los Angeles resident said. “It’s like a completely different experience.”

Loss of taste or smell may be the first thing that prompts someone to get tested for a coronavirus infection. Some studies, in fact, have found it to be the best predictor. (Researchers have even questioned whether smell tests are a better screening tool than temperature checks.)

But though a majority of people recover their senses within weeks, 10% suffer long-term smell dysfunction, some researchers estimate. In Castro-Salzman’s case, it started out with anosmia – complete loss of smell – before developing into parosmia.

Last week, I read another article about the thousands upon thousands of people who have not regained their sense of taste. It's hard for me to grasp how frustrating, how awful, that must be for them.

Agreed. Add up all the long-term (possibly permanent) losses of taste and/or smell, breathing difficulties, cognitive impairments and other Covid-related long-term symptoms, and this pandemic has caused a mind-boggling amount of misery even for people who survive.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on February 08, 2021, 01:20:47 PM

Quote from: tower912 on February 08, 2021, 01:12:51 PM

I still can't smell.   Taste is ok for the most part.  3 months in.   The good news is I can't smell my 14 year old's boy funk.   Or his shoes.  And my poop don't stink.   Crazy stuff.

One of my coworkers says she's only at about 50% taste & smell (but oddly with good and bad days) after about 7 months!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on February 08, 2021, 01:37:22 PM

I have started getting random, impossible, phantom smells.   Beef stroganoff when we haven't eaten it in months.  UTI urine smell inside my surgical mask while shoveling snow. 

But I walk into a kitchen or pick up a pizza and I get  half a whiff lasting about 2 seconds and then it is gone.   On a good day.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on February 08, 2021, 02:04:48 PM

Quote from: tower912 on February 08, 2021, 01:12:51 PM

I still can't smell.   Taste is ok for the most part.  3 months in.   The good news is I can't smell my 14 year old's boy funk.   Or his shoes.  And my poop don't stink.   Crazy stuff.

Dang, tower. Sad to hear that.

Knowing you, you take it in stride and you know you're lucky for all the things you have. But that really sucks, and I'm hoping you regain your full sense of smell over time.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on February 08, 2021, 02:26:09 PM

Look at it dis wey. Yo wife kan fart in bedd and both of yew ar good, aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on February 08, 2021, 02:34:35 PM

Quote from: tower912 on February 08, 2021, 01:37:22 PM

I have started getting random, impossible, phantom smells.   Beef stroganoff when we haven't eaten it in months.  UTI urine smell inside my surgical mask while shoveling snow. 

But I walk into a kitchen or pick up a pizza and I get  half a whiff lasting about 2 seconds and then it is gone.   On a good day.

Maybe stop hanging the surgery mask on the under side of the toilet lid?

But seriously that's rough, odd also. Not exactly what I had envisioned the anosmia would be like.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on February 08, 2021, 02:49:39 PM

Every case is different.   Weird stuff.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on February 08, 2021, 03:01:19 PM

Quote from: tower912 on February 08, 2021, 02:49:39 PM

Every case is different.   Weird stuff.

Yeah, for sure.  I know plenty of people that had full smell back in a week or so.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on February 11, 2021, 07:45:46 PM

https://nypost.com/2021/02/11/cuomo-aide-admits-they-hid-nursing-home-data-from-feds/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Another day, another story.  To think this guy won an Emmy or something for his leadership and handling of the pandemic, yikes.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on February 11, 2021, 08:39:22 PM

https://www.houmatoday.com/story/news/state/2021/02/10/study-new-orleans-mardi-gras-2020-spawned-up-50-k-coronavirus-cases-likely-single-source/6702126002/

Last year’s Mardi Gras may have been the king of all superspreaders.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 12, 2021, 06:13:31 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on February 11, 2021, 07:45:46 PM

https://nypost.com/2021/02/11/cuomo-aide-admits-they-hid-nursing-home-data-from-feds/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Another day, another story.  To think this guy won an Emmy or something for his leadership and handling of the pandemic, yikes.

You gonna beat this into the ground orrrrrrr...?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on February 12, 2021, 07:08:23 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 12, 2021, 06:13:31 AM

You gonna beat this into the ground orrrrrrr...?

Don't encourage the troll

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on February 12, 2021, 07:48:59 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on February 11, 2021, 07:45:46 PM

https://nypost.com/2021/02/11/cuomo-aide-admits-they-hid-nursing-home-data-from-feds/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Another day, another story.  To think this guy won an Emmy or something for his leadership and handling of the pandemic, yikes.

Now do Florida.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on February 12, 2021, 08:17:17 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 12, 2021, 06:13:31 AM

You gonna beat this into the ground orrrrrrr...?

The news that Cuomo hid numbers* broke yesterday.  It's not beating into the ground, it's an evolving story that keeps getting more horrific for the old folks of NY.

*his aide admitted it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on February 12, 2021, 08:23:08 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on February 12, 2021, 08:17:17 AM

The news that Cuomo hid numbers* broke yesterday.  It's not beating into the ground, it's an evolving story that keeps getting more horrific for the old folks of NY.

*his aide admitted it.

Yeah it's a genuinely bad look. Whether it's Gov Cuomo or Gov Scott. Anybody should be able to objectively say it's the wrong thing to do...For both... on either side.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 12, 2021, 08:26:08 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on February 12, 2021, 08:17:17 AM

The news that Cuomo hid numbers* broke yesterday.  It's not beating into the ground, it's an evolving story that keeps getting more horrific for the old folks of NY.

*his aide admitted it.

The AG held a press conference weeks ago, and I posted the article.  This is just an aide confirming what the AG said.  Here is the article again.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ny-nursing-home-virus-deaths-155409236.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on February 12, 2021, 08:30:22 AM

https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2021/02/11/ohio-undercounted-covid-deaths-by-4000-department-of-health-says


What this tells me is that the number of deaths from COVID is higher than the official count.    And it is time to bring it all out.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warrior2008 on February 12, 2021, 10:01:11 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on February 12, 2021, 08:23:08 AM

Yeah it's a genuinely bad look. Whether it's Gov Cuomo or Gov Scott. Anybody should be able to objectively say it's the wrong thing to do...For both... on either side.

Well said. The lengths people will go to defend poor behavior or bad decisions because they have a R or a D next to their name is disgusting and yet now a norm in our country. Instead of accountability for our leaders, people immediately jump to whataboutism and circle the wagons.

Cuomo screwed up royally sending recovering covid patients into nursing homes, then hid the data all the while releasing a book about what a great job he was doing. DeSantis very clearly got caught concealing covid deaths prior to the November election and then restarted counting them again later in November.  He also fired a data scientist who created a very accurate covid dashboard for the state. It shouldn’t be so hard to criticize these politicians, then genuinely could care less about any of us regardless of our political persuasions.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on February 12, 2021, 10:34:01 AM

Quote from: tower912 on February 12, 2021, 08:30:22 AM

https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2021/02/11/ohio-undercounted-covid-deaths-by-4000-department-of-health-says


What this tells me is that the number of deaths from COVID is higher than the official count.    And it is time to bring it all out.

and the people that had covid but died in car crashes and were counted as covid deaths?

Chitty counting on  both the over and the under count.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on February 12, 2021, 10:52:43 AM

Quote from: tower912 on February 12, 2021, 08:30:22 AM

https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2021/02/11/ohio-undercounted-covid-deaths-by-4000-department-of-health-says


What this tells me is that the number of deaths from COVID is higher than the official count.    And it is time to bring it all out.

Still to this day, many states will not count a case, or a death as COVID without a positive PCR test while they were alive.

That means they can have a positive rapid-antigen test, diagnosed with COVID, and have double pneumonia cause their death, and that state will not count the death as COVID related.

Intentionally undercounting COVID deaths is a national game, to make leaders in charge look better. That effort started at the top.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: deerchaser on February 12, 2021, 11:02:02 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on February 12, 2021, 10:34:01 AM

and the people that had covid but died in car crashes and were counted as covid deaths?

Chitty counting on  both the over and the under count.

The article's pretty vague as to the reasons for the undercount, but a quick search of Ohio motor vehicle deaths came up with 1,150 in 2019. Assuming that number is relatively consistent and even if you assume every one has COVID and is classified as such (seems highly unlikely) it seems this error would be outweighed by the undercount.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on February 12, 2021, 11:05:02 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on February 12, 2021, 10:34:01 AM

and the people that had covid but died in car crashes and were counted as covid deaths?

Chitty counting on  both the over and the under count.

Why are people with covid driving around?  Shouldn't they be quarantined?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on February 12, 2021, 11:10:25 AM

Quote from: BLM on February 12, 2021, 11:05:02 AM

Why are people with covid driving around?  Shouldn't they be quarantined?

Are you home shaming people who live out of their cars?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on February 12, 2021, 11:18:58 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on February 12, 2021, 10:34:01 AM

and the people that had covid but died in car crashes and were counted as covid deaths?

Chitty counting on  both the over and the under count.

Data would tell you there isnt both sides--nor does this have to be.  Of course there are examples of poor classifications, but the data would tell you it skews one way in total.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on February 12, 2021, 11:25:09 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on February 12, 2021, 10:34:01 AM

and the people that had covid but died in car crashes and were counted as covid deaths?

Chitty counting on  both the over and the under count.

From a few weeks ago....

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/12/22/2020-deadliest-year-united-states-coronavirus/4006270001/

"Final mortality data for this year will not be available for months. But preliminary numbers suggest that the United States is on track to see more than 3.2 million deaths this year, or at least 400,000 more than in 2019."

...

"COVID-19 has killed more than 318,000 Americans and counting."

It looks WWWAAAYYYYYY more likely that we have undercounted COVID deaths.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on February 12, 2021, 01:30:43 PM

Quote from: forgetful on February 12, 2021, 10:52:43 AM

Still to this day, many states will not count a case, or a death as COVID without a positive PCR test while they were alive.

That means they can have a positive rapid-antigen test, diagnosed with COVID, and have double pneumonia cause their death, and that state will not count the death as COVID related.

Intentionally undercounting COVID deaths is a national game, to make leaders in charge look better. That effort started at the top.

Totally agree. All the numbers (and the epidemiologists who analyze them) point to a dramatic underreporting of COVID deaths.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on February 12, 2021, 07:33:11 PM

Cheeks has been missing the attention he so desires in his life. So the reign of Scoop terror is the result. Wonder if he’ll write us a letter about the real love of his life. Wonder if that’s the issue here. Valentine’s Day coming up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on February 12, 2021, 09:06:50 PM

guess this wasn't as easy as sleepy thought/said it was going to be.  dude was given a head start with all the research, "science", vaccines and "experts" inline plus the lapdog "media" and don't forget about the emmy award winning gov. covid who was the "gold standard" for handling this bad boy, the best we get is a half day of school a week?  talk about "can't let a good crisis... 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 12, 2021, 09:12:34 PM

I see the talking points have been handed out.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on February 12, 2021, 09:13:19 PM

People really exposing their lack of understanding here.

And one is a healthcare worker. Yikes.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on February 12, 2021, 10:42:41 PM

Changes were made from day one, but the previous administration let a huge locomotive plow out of control down a mountain. Even with all the braking power in the world, it will take time to slow it down and turn it around. Biden warned us that progress will be gradual, and everybody here fully understands why…

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on February 12, 2021, 11:04:04 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on February 12, 2021, 10:42:41 PM

Changes were made from day one, but the previous administration let a huge locomotive plow out of control down a mountain. Even with all the braking power in the world, it will take time to slow it down and turn it around. Biden warned us that progress will be gradual, and everybody here fully understands why…

Right. People dumb enough to not understand that nobody promised no new cases or deaths or a complete reopening 3 weeks into the new administration are how we ended up with Donald Trump as our president. There is a lot of stupidity in this country. And there was a LOT of damage done that takes time to reverse.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on February 12, 2021, 11:13:00 PM

I'm actually starting to think that MAGAs really did believe that Covid was all a hoax to get rid of Trump and would magically disappear once Biden was in office.  I thought it was just the extremists who thought this, but apparently they're unhappy that this thing didn't magically disappear as Trump promised.

At least Biden appears to have gotten their attention as to how serious this is.  From "There's nothing the federal government can do.  This is just the flu anyways.  Open the country up!" to, "What's taking Sleepy Joe so long to fix all our problems?" it appears the MAGAs are very happy to give Joe the federal authority that Trump never had.

Great news!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on February 12, 2021, 11:53:11 PM

Quote from: BLM on February 12, 2021, 11:13:00 PM

I'm actually starting to think that MAGAs really did believe that Covid was all a hoax to get rid of Trump and would magically disappear once Biden was in office.  I thought it was just the extremists who thought this, but apparently they're unhappy that this thing didn't magically disappear as Trump promised.

Sadly, a lot of average Joe/Jane GOP believed that this was largely a scam to hurt Trump and did think it would magically disappear as a concern once Biden was in office.

I know a lot of people who thought that, who aren't even big MAGA'ers.

The nation is unbelievably divided right now. I fear what things will look like moving forward.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on February 13, 2021, 06:51:27 AM

I don't think its too much to admit that Cuomo, who once was praised by a lot of people, has been terrible in retrospect.  He should resign or they should boot him out of office.  The falsification of data for political purposes may even be criminal behavior.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on February 13, 2021, 08:16:50 AM

Duz he hafta give back da Emmy two, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on February 13, 2021, 08:53:18 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on February 13, 2021, 06:51:27 AM

I don't think its too much to admit that Cuomo, who once was praised by a lot of people, has been terrible in retrospect.  He should resign or they should boot him out of office.  The falsification of data for political purposes may even be criminal behavior.

Absolutely correct. Cuomo seemed to be doing the right things at the time, but in hindsight he has been abysmal. I have admitted this before, and I will continue to say it. Cuomo belongs in the same boat as DeSantis, Kemp, Noem and a few others.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on February 13, 2021, 09:42:42 AM

Cuomo messed up.   I would expect there will be consequences.     As it should be.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on February 13, 2021, 09:48:51 AM

Enough.  Back to COVID.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on February 13, 2021, 12:14:51 PM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 13, 2021, 09:48:51 AM

Enough.  Back to COVID.

Uh, Cuomo does relate to covid.  Or does that only apply when Rs look bad?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on February 13, 2021, 12:24:33 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on February 13, 2021, 12:14:51 PM

Uh, Cuomo does relate to covid.  Or does that only apply when Rs look bad?

Always a conspiracy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on February 13, 2021, 12:40:19 PM

Quote from: BLM on February 13, 2021, 12:24:33 PM

Always a conspiracy.

Always a victim

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on February 13, 2021, 01:19:12 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on February 13, 2021, 12:14:51 PM

Uh, Cuomo does relate to covid.  Or does that only apply when Rs look bad?

I think you mean Qs

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on February 13, 2021, 03:25:57 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on February 13, 2021, 01:19:12 PM

I think you mean Qs

Good one!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on February 13, 2021, 05:04:01 PM

Sorry, I'd deleted a bunch of other crap and got caught up in it.  Yeah, Cuomo/Covid is fair game.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on February 13, 2021, 07:03:43 PM

Quote from: tower912 on February 13, 2021, 09:42:42 AM

Cuomo messed up.   I would expect there will be consequences.     As it should be.

There damn well should be consequences, even above and beyond political ones.

Quote from: 4everwarriors on February 13, 2021, 08:16:50 AM

Duz he hafta give back da Emmy two, hey?

I hope so. That was ridiculous anyway.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on February 13, 2021, 07:49:35 PM

Quote from: MU82 on February 13, 2021, 07:03:43 PM

There damn well should be consequences, even above and beyond political ones.

Regrettably, consequences for high-profile politicians seem to be a thing of the past.

I’m guessing Cuomo will be bruised, but not done.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on February 14, 2021, 09:29:15 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on February 13, 2021, 07:49:35 PM

Regrettably, consequences for high-profile politicians wealthy elites seem to be are a thing of the past.

I’m guessing Cuomo will be bruised, but not done.

FIFY

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on February 15, 2021, 06:58:32 PM

A new study identifies seven U.S. virus variants with the same worrying mutation.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/02/14/world/covid-19-coronavirus#a-new-study-identifies-seven-us-virus-variants-with-the-same-worrying-mutation

As Americans anxiously watch the spread of coronavirus variants that were first identified in Britain and South Africa, scientists are finding a number of new variants that seem to have originated in the United States — and many of them may pose the same kind of extra-contagious threat.

In a study posted on Sunday, a team of researchers reported seven growing lineages of the coronavirus, spotted in states across the country. All have gained a mutation at the exact same spot in their genes.

“There’s clearly something going on with this mutation,” said Jeremy Kamil, a virologist at Louisiana State University Health Sciences Center and a co-author of the new study.

It’s not clear yet whether this shared mutation makes the variants more contagious, but because it appears in a gene that influences how the virus enters human cells, the scientists are highly suspicious.

——————

This is extremely troubling. And it shows the risk of America’s appalling lack of focus on genomic sequencing for COVID.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on February 17, 2021, 09:54:49 AM

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/02/why-covid-19-cases-are-falling-so-fast/618041/

Why cases are dropping.

Really good news all around.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on February 17, 2021, 10:36:01 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on February 17, 2021, 09:54:49 AM

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/02/why-covid-19-cases-are-falling-so-fast/618041/

Why cases are dropping.

Really good news all around.

Caught this too, good read.  A solid comment I read in the same Twitter thread, while it’s tough to measure, certainly holds true for me, my family and lots of friends...that we have been safe and careful for 11 months, made lots of sacrifices, and with vaccines on the horizons people may just be extra careful as to not get this nasty thing in the 11th hour.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on February 17, 2021, 10:36:48 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on February 17, 2021, 09:54:49 AM

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/02/why-covid-19-cases-are-falling-so-fast/618041/

Why cases are dropping.

Really good news all around.

There is a ton to be optimistic about.  With this type of disease even partial immunity or severity reduction is a big blow to its ability to disrupt society.  Now we can't take our eye off the ball on prevention steps, but it feels like a more localized  but normal summer is certainly in the cards (i.e. not flying internationally).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on February 17, 2021, 11:57:36 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on February 17, 2021, 09:54:49 AM

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/02/why-covid-19-cases-are-falling-so-fast/618041/

Why cases are dropping.

Really good news all around.

Yes, it is very good news. If we can keep the vaccines rolling and people continue to wear masks and follow social distancing guidelines, we have a chance to put the worst of this behind us. But we need to remain cautious for a few more months, to really tamp this down and minimize the chance of new vaccine-resistant variants.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on February 17, 2021, 12:46:40 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on February 17, 2021, 11:57:36 AM

Yes, it is very good news. If we can keep the vaccines rolling and people continue to wear masks and follow social distancing guidelines, we have a chance to put the worst of this behind us. But we need to remain cautious for a few more months, to really tamp this down and minimize the chance of new vaccine-resistant variants.

This is the message that should be coming from the top. If you want people to get vaccinated, tell them there's a light at the end of this thing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on February 17, 2021, 12:50:59 PM

For the first time since at least August, I'm feeling that we are making real progress against COVID-19, and I'm hopeful that there can be some semblance of "normal" by summer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on February 17, 2021, 08:22:23 PM

Re: cases dropping

I also very much wonder .. look, Americans fit on a spectrum of COVID vigilance.   While we're a nation of 350m people, at least a third of us are staying at home, haven't seen our friends or families, haven't participated in weddings or funerals.   Very few in this third have been infected, there's a wall around this group.

But another third are at the bottom of that spectrum, and they were the virus' prime targets, and like a forest fire, the virus has burned through that timber and is petering out. 

Maybe. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on February 17, 2021, 08:37:23 PM

Quote from: MU82 on February 17, 2021, 12:50:59 PM

For the first time since at least August, I'm feeling that we are making real progress against COVID-19, and I'm hopeful that there can be some semblance of "normal" by summer.

You weren’t feeling progress in November and December as vaccines were being approved and going live?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on February 17, 2021, 09:15:18 PM

Wonder if the once in a lifetime storm shutting down the south might help stem the tide of COVID in those areas. They were areas where people refused to take basic precautions, but now people are forced inside for an entire week, might be enough to get things back under control.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on February 17, 2021, 09:28:17 PM

Quote from: forgetful on February 17, 2021, 09:15:18 PM

Wonder if the once in a lifetime storm shutting down the south might help stem the tide of COVID in those areas. They were areas where people refused to take basic precautions, but now people are forced inside for an entire week, might be enough to get things back under control.

Could be, but it might also be a mixed bag. I heard lots of places opened warming shelters for homeless people and others without heat. Obviously the right thing to do in the moment, but it might he harder to enforce Covid precautions in a crowded, live-or-die environment.

And then there are the stories of the weather delaying vaccine shipments, just as we seemed to be hitting our stride. Ugh.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on February 17, 2021, 10:08:23 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on February 17, 2021, 08:37:23 PM

You weren’t feeling progress in November and December as vaccines were being approved and going live?

You mean when 4000+ Americans were dying every day? No, I wasn't feeling as chipper then.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on February 17, 2021, 10:39:37 PM

Quote from: MU82 on February 17, 2021, 10:08:23 PM

You mean when 4000+ Americans were dying every day? No, I wasn't feeling as chipper then.

Agreed. It was great that vaccines were getting approved and beginning to be administered. Huge accomplishments. But with deaths still rising, it still felt pretty bleak.

I just hope the storm doesn’t delay too many vaccine shipments this week, so we can maintain the momentum.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on February 18, 2021, 05:45:30 PM

Largest drop in life expectancy since World War 2 in 2020.   Just wait until all of the undercounts are corrected.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on February 18, 2021, 07:48:51 PM

Quote from: tower912 on February 18, 2021, 05:45:30 PM

Largest drop in life expectancy since World War 2 in 2020.   Just wait until all of the undercounts are corrected.

And those numbers were just for the first half of 2020. They don’t include the mid- and late–year surges, when the majority of deaths occurred.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on February 19, 2021, 08:20:49 AM

Quote from: tower912 on February 18, 2021, 05:45:30 PM

Largest drop in life expectancy since World War 2 in 2020.   Just wait until all of the undercounts are corrected.

-1 year for expectancy .. -2.5 for African-Americans. 

I'd rather lose that via Arby's than Covid.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on February 19, 2021, 08:33:00 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 19, 2021, 08:20:49 AM

-1 year for expectancy .. -2.5 for African-Americans. 

I'd rather lose that via Arby's than Covid.

You're gonna have to cut down considerably on your Arby's to get to those numbers....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on February 19, 2021, 12:33:13 PM

In another thread, people were discussing when we might be back to 'normal' in the US. Most speculated it would be sometime this summer or fall. Based on our current vaccination rate, I am hopeful it will be this fall.

That said, I am concerned about the comparably tiny vaccination rate worldwide. While the US is somewhere between 10-20% getting a first shot, the vast majority of countries are still under 5%. This includes the EU, Russia, China, Brazil and many others. As a result, the world is still a breeding ground for variants. Variants that could develop total resistance to the immunity caused by previous infections and current vaccines, and make their way back to the US.

As a result, I think our new 'normal' will still include widespread mask wearing in public for the next couple of years, and 'booster' vaccines to protect against variants that develop.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on February 22, 2021, 08:24:25 AM

500,000 Americans dead from COVID-19.

Though the end appears to be in sight, and that's worth celebrating, that number is almost impossible to fathom.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on February 22, 2021, 08:51:47 AM

Keep wearin' dat mask like da good doctor sez inta 2028. Either you believe the vaccine works, or you don't. Must bea chitty down in da hidey hole, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on February 22, 2021, 08:56:27 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on February 22, 2021, 08:51:47 AM

Keep wearin' dat mask like da good doctor sez inta 2028. Either you believe the vaccine works, or you don't. Must bea chitty down in da hidey hole, hey?

If you actually listened to his interview, you would know that he explicitly said he wouldn't comment on any timeline regarding mask wearing, because it would just be a guess, and the headlines would be that "Fauci says masks until 20xx". He said he is hopeful that vaccines will do their job and life will return to normal, but any timelines is pure speculation.

So, maybe actually listen to the good doctor, instead of spouting off.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on February 22, 2021, 09:13:03 AM

Quote from: forgetful on February 22, 2021, 08:56:27 AM

If you actually listened to his interview, you would know that he explicitly said he wouldn't comment on any timeline regarding mask wearing, because it would just be a guess, and the headlines would be that "Fauci says masks until 20xx". He said he is hopeful that vaccines will do their job and life will return to normal, but any timelines is pure speculation.

So, maybe actually listen to the good doctor, instead of spouting off.

sciencenomatta

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on February 22, 2021, 09:16:28 AM

#medicalproffesionalsagainstscienceandreason


Shut up and drill, ai'na?

And submit to the authorities telling you to get vaccinated.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on February 22, 2021, 09:31:52 AM

What many people don't seem to understand (or refuse to acknowledge) is that the virus will continue to circulate and replicate long after most American adults are vaccinated. That's because (1) the vaccines are still not approved in the US for kids under 16; and (2) most countries are WAY behind the US in vaccinating their populations because they don't yet have access. Additionally, it is still speculated that vaccinated adults can harbor and pass the virus.

This continued circulation will lead to more mutations, which could lead to vaccine-resistant variants, which could lead to another whole round of hospitalizations and deaths.

The best way to avoid such a resurgence of sickness and death is to practice continued mask-wearing and some degree of social distancing until we have achieved something resembling worldwide herd immunity. And that may be quite a while....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on February 22, 2021, 09:35:24 AM

Quote from: forgetful on February 22, 2021, 08:56:27 AM

If you actually listened to his interview, you would know that he explicitly said he wouldn't comment on any timeline regarding mask wearing, because it would just be a guess, and the headlines would be that "Fauci says masks until 20xx". He said he is hopeful that vaccines will do their job and life will return to normal, but any timelines is pure speculation.

So, maybe actually listen to the good doctor, instead of spouting off.

That’s refreshing to hear. I definitely value Dr. Fauci’s insights and trust what he says, but also feel he’s gotten himself in some trouble with timelines.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on February 22, 2021, 09:50:31 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on February 22, 2021, 09:31:52 AM

What many people don't seem to understand (or refuse to acknowledge) is that the virus will continue to circulate and replicate long after most American adults are vaccinated. That's because (1) the vaccines are still not approved in the US for kids under 16; and (2) most countries are WAY behind the US in vaccinating their populations because they don't yet have access. Additionally, it is still speculated that vaccinated adults can harbor and pass the virus.

This continued circulation will lead to more mutations, which could lead to vaccine-resistant variants, which could lead to another whole round of hospitalizations and deaths.

The best way to avoid such a resurgence of sickness and death is to practice continued mask-wearing and some degree of social distancing until we have achieved something resembling worldwide herd immunity. And that may be quite a while....

I think people understand this concept and are likely calculating that COVID will become endemic.  However, I think you are under-estimating the public's ability or willingness to get back to normal life once the severity is knocked down with vaccines. 

I can tell you most of my personal health choices are driven by the potential for hospitals being over-run and prior to the vaccines, respect for healthcare workers/family by lessening the potential for spread.
 My calculus isnt about fighting a virus that is inevitably with us at this point.  If it mutates to be more severe, sure my choices would change, but until that point I'm going to rely on a vaccine and periodic boosters.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on February 22, 2021, 10:04:11 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on February 22, 2021, 09:50:31 AM

I think people understand this concept and are likely calculating that COVID will become endemic.  However, I think you are under-estimating the public's ability or willingness to get back to normal life once the severity is knocked down with vaccines. 

Actually, I have a very realistic view of what most of the American public will likely do. I expect most to stop wearing masks by sometime this summer, and go back mostly to pre-Covid behavior.

The purpose of my post was to suggest that this is not necessarily the best approach in the long run....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on February 22, 2021, 10:08:40 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on February 22, 2021, 10:04:11 AM

Actually, I have a very realistic view of what most of the American public will likely do. I expect most to stop wearing masks by sometime this summer, and go back mostly to pre-Covid behavior.

Disagree, mainly because most won't be allowed to. You think we'll see mask rules rolled back this summer? Capacity limits gone? The messaging is already laying the ground work to keep masks/distancing in place well past this summer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on February 22, 2021, 10:14:48 AM

Quote from: MUfan12 on February 22, 2021, 10:08:40 AM

Disagree, mainly because most won't be allowed to. You think we'll see mask rules rolled back this summer? Capacity limits gone? The messaging is already laying the ground work to keep masks/distancing in place well past this summer.

That would be prudent from a disease management standpoint...but I tend to agree with Frenns that the public pushback will be too strong.

Time will tell.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GrimmReaper33 on February 22, 2021, 10:49:20 AM

Quote from: MUfan12 on February 22, 2021, 10:08:40 AM

Disagree, mainly because most won't be allowed to. You think we'll see mask rules rolled back this summer? Capacity limits gone? The messaging is already laying the ground work to keep masks/distancing in place well past this summer.

I think there will be significant public pushback, if that's the case.  I mean we all see people now going into stores without a mask, even though 'rules' require them.  Once it gets to Summer and more of the general public is vaccinated and less concerned, the number of people doing that will increase drastically. 

Maybe some concert/sports venues, Disney World, things like that may still limit capacity, but most other things will be back to normal.  It's already happening.  We went out to eat at a popular brunch spot on Saturday.  This is in WI, so no limited capacity requirements. 

There was a 45 minute wait and every table was filled the whole time we were there. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on February 22, 2021, 11:06:13 AM

500,000.   More than WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, 9/11 combined.


#noworsethantheflu

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on February 22, 2021, 11:11:38 AM

Quote from: tower912 on February 22, 2021, 11:06:13 AM

500,000.   More than WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, 9/11 combined.


#noworsethantheflu

What insane is as far as pandemics go this isn't that bad. Justinian or Black plagues must've been completely unimaginable and you get a lot more real life context after living through this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on February 22, 2021, 11:13:17 AM

And this one is really just a shot across the bow.

Wait until one comes along this contagious with a 10% mortality rate that also affects children.


Better keep sciencing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on February 22, 2021, 11:13:39 AM

Quote from: GrimmReaper33 on February 22, 2021, 10:49:20 AM

I think there will be significant public pushback, if that's the case.  I mean we all see people now going into stores without a mask, even though 'rules' require them.  Once it gets to Summer and more of the general public is vaccinated and less concerned, the number of people doing that will increase drastically. 

Maybe some concert/sports venues, Disney World, things like that may still limit capacity, but most other things will be back to normal.  It's already happening.  We went out to eat at a popular brunch spot on Saturday.  This is in WI, so no limited capacity requirements. 

There was a 45 minute wait and every table was filled the whole time we were there. 

I completely agree with this.  Sure I can see the Brewers, Summerfest and other large public events limiting capacity, and you may see large stores still requiring masks, but you will see restaurants and bars starting to bring back capacity and people shedding masks and moving on.  And the political will won't be there.

And at this point I am OK with that.  If the most vulnerable are vaccinated, the rest are engaging in the level of risk they find acceptable.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on February 22, 2021, 11:14:42 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on February 22, 2021, 11:11:38 AM

What insane is as far as pandemics go this isn't that bad. Justinian or Black plagues must've been completely unimaginable and you get a lot more real life context after living through this.

Right but neither of those would be nearly as deadly now as they were back then.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on February 22, 2021, 11:29:25 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on February 22, 2021, 11:14:42 AM

Right but neither of those would be nearly as deadly now as they were back then.

I think you missed my point. Simply just that it unimaginable what a considerably more deadly pandemic must've been like.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on February 22, 2021, 11:35:27 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on February 22, 2021, 11:29:25 AM

I think you missed my point. Simply just that it unimaginable what a considerably more deadly pandemic must've been like.

I imagine just as many people then would have claimed it was a witch's curse as now claim it's a political hoax.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on February 22, 2021, 11:40:11 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on February 22, 2021, 11:29:25 AM

I think you missed my point. Simply just that it unimaginable what a considerably more deadly pandemic must've been like.

Oh I agree with that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on February 22, 2021, 11:42:13 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on February 22, 2021, 10:14:48 AM

That would be prudent from a disease management standpoint...but I tend to agree with Frenns that the public pushback will be too strong.

Yep. I mean we have a dentist on here who equates wearing masks and social distancing with "hiding in the basement." Others look at 500K dead Americans, shrug, and parrot their leader with: "It affects virtually nobody."

The appetite for continued serious mitigation efforts already is very low.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on February 22, 2021, 12:45:25 PM

Quote from: tower912 on February 22, 2021, 11:06:13 AM

500,000.   More than WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, 9/11 combined.


#noworsethantheflu

"This is the common cold, folks."
   -- Noted healthcare expert (opioids, carcinogens, infectious diseases to name but a few) Limbaugh

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on February 22, 2021, 02:06:06 PM

Quote from: MU82 on February 22, 2021, 11:42:13 AM

The appetite for continued serious mitigation efforts already is very low.

There is a difference between refusing to do the very minimum and shrugging off the severity of it, and being willing to dutifully continue with every stated precaution even after being vaccinated.  That’s a very different animal IMO.  If, like GOO states, the prudent thing would be to continue to mask well into 2022 or beyond? Good luck.  I understand the fallibility of timelines when dealing with epidemiology and evolving science, but the constant shifting, even with the best intentions, can desensitize and exhaust even respectful and conscientious members of society.

For me, it kind of boils down to, would you rather more people vaccinate and then begin to live life as normal, or have people be wary of the vaccine or think “what’s the point” and continue with moderate vaccinate numbers and pushing for masking and social distancing, cause I don’t think expecting both is logical.  I mean, it’s really the same school of though that people should wear masks if they feel ill or during flu season.  Maybe that’s the most responsible epidemiological response, but that seems pretty unrealistic

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on February 22, 2021, 02:24:14 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on February 22, 2021, 02:06:06 PM

There is a difference between refusing to do the very minimum and shrugging off the severity of it, and being willingly to dutifully continue with every stated precaution even after being vaccinated.  That’s a very different animal IMO.  If, like GOO states, the prudent thing would be to continue to mask well into 2022 or beyond? Good luck.  I understand the fallibility of timelines when dealing with epidemiology and evolving science, but the constant shifting, even with the best intentions, can desensitize and exhaust even respectful and contentious members of society.

For me, it kind of boils down to, would you rather more people vaccinate and then begin to live life as normal, or have people be wary of the vaccine or think “what’s the point” and continue with moderate vaccinate numbers and pushing for masking and social distancing, cause I don’t think expecting both is logical.  I mean, it’s really the same school of though that people should wear masks if they feel ill or during flu season.  Maybe that’s the most responsible epidemiological response, but that seems pretty unrealistic

That's kind of where I am.  I think early compliance criticism was warranted, but many to most people are following advice these days.

i understand why they don't know yet if people are infectious post vaccine, but answering that question could be really critical .  It may not make a huge difference to public health, but if they could say "get the vaccine and ditch the mask after x weeks", it would be the best vaccination campaign money could buy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on February 22, 2021, 03:06:55 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on February 22, 2021, 02:24:14 PM

That's kind of where I am.  I think early compliance criticism was warranted, but many to most people are following advice these days.

i understand why they don't know yet if people are infectious post vaccine, but answering that question could be really critical .  It may not make a huge difference to public health, but if they could say "get the vaccine and ditch the mask after x weeks", it would be the best vaccination campaign money could buy.

Yep.  I mean for all the talk of super spreader events, we all know someone who wears a mask, keep distance, do the right things...and still got COVID.  I mean, of the 3 most careful people I know regarding COVID, 2 got it including my GF who at the time was working from home and left the house only to grocery shop or the occasional errand and used enough hand sanitizer that the car smelled like a Purel plant.  The one of the 3 who didn’t was my aforementioned Grandma who is on oxygen and literally doesn’t leave the house.

Meaning, it’s all about mitigating risk cause there is so much unknown and funky about contraction and it’s spread. But at a certain point, with the best single risk mitigation factor you can apply (the vaccine), there will largely be a move back to normality. Cause without a firm “when  X number of shots, the country will be at an acceptable level to move forward without masks” or some similar edict, the fluid timelines are gonna become less and less palatable

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on February 22, 2021, 03:27:26 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on February 22, 2021, 02:06:06 PM

There is a difference between refusing to do the very minimum and shrugging off the severity of it, and being willing to dutifully continue with every stated precaution even after being vaccinated.  That’s a very different animal IMO.  If, like GOO states, the prudent thing would be to continue to mask well into 2022 or beyond? Good luck.  I understand the fallibility of timelines when dealing with epidemiology and evolving science, but the constant shifting, even with the best intentions, can desensitize and exhaust even respectful and conscientious members of society.

For me, it kind of boils down to, would you rather more people vaccinate and then begin to live life as normal, or have people be wary of the vaccine or think “what’s the point” and continue with moderate vaccinate numbers and pushing for masking and social distancing, cause I don’t think expecting both is logical.  I mean, it’s really the same school of though that people should wear masks if they feel ill or during flu season.  Maybe that’s the most responsible epidemiological response, but that seems pretty unrealistic

I think we are pretty much on the same page with this. I have been extremely cautious - many would say overly so - and also quite patient about getting back to normal. But even I am getting 'COVID-fatigue,' so I totally understand why the public at large would feel this way.

And if the public views vaccines vs masks and social distancing as an 'either/or' proposition, I would certainly hope we vaccinate, vaccinate, vaccinate and then ease up on the masks, as opposed to the other way around.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on February 22, 2021, 03:32:02 PM

I also think the message, "even if you get the vaccine things are going to take awhile to get back to normal" is one that is going to frustrate a lot of people.

This vaccine is pretty terrific.  Even those who get sick aren't getting so sick that they are going to hospitals and dying.  We should be celebrating this!  And as Frenn's said, the ability for people to return to something normal is what is going to drive them to get vaccinated.  There should be an entire push around that!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on February 22, 2021, 04:09:45 PM

I keep seeing summaries on the vaccines.
1) If you get a vaccine your are not dying.  Period.
2) If you get the vaccine and you get sick you will not get a severe case of COVID.  You won't end up in the hospital.
3) Sounds like there is plenty of real world January data now that completely backs up the vaccine study results.

Winter is really wearing on my COVID-fatigue.  I'm still taking plenty of cautions and still won't eat out, inside a restaurant, until vaccinated.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on February 22, 2021, 04:30:16 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on February 22, 2021, 04:09:45 PM

I keep seeing summaries on the vaccines.
1) If you get a vaccine your are not dying.  Period.
2) If you get the vaccine and you get sick you will not get a severe case of COVID.  You won't end up in the hospital.
3) Sounds like there is plenty of real world January data now that completely backs up the vaccine study results.

Winter is really wearing on my COVID-fatigue.  I'm still taking plenty of cautions and still won't eat out, inside a restaurant, until vaccinated.

Good summary.

I would add: 4) The vaccine appears to give significant protection against the current variants, but at a slightly lower level than against the original strain.

The only significant question I haven't seen answered yet is whether the vaccine will prevent mild disease that then turns into 'long-haul' symptoms. Researchers are trying to figure this out.

https://www.theverge.com/22266344/covid-vaccine-protection-chronic-long-haul

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on February 23, 2021, 07:20:53 AM

Nice to have a sane, empathetic, decent leader who thinks about more than enriching himself ...

https://apnews.com/article/biden-inauguration-joe-biden-donald-trump-coronavirus-pandemic-covid-19-pandemic-617e9759d427af84320eae7b8d7b40c1?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=AP%20Morning%20Wire&utm_term=Morning%20Wire%20Subscribers

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on February 23, 2021, 08:22:07 AM

Some good news on deaths.  (at least some good projections)

https://twitter.com/ashishkjha/status/1364087549791252480?s=20

First, predictions

By March 10, we should be under 1,000 daily deaths

By St. Patrick's Day, 750

And we could keep dropping

Amazing

Why?

Because infections are falling

But why faster than expected?

Two reasons

1. Hospital capacity easing
Overburdened, packed hospital means death rates rise

Opposite also true

As crowding burden eases, doctors, nurses have more time for each patient

Based on data, proportion of infected people dying weeks later is falling

This is good

And there is a 2nd reason to be optimistic
We are now entering a point where infections in nursing homes has fallen a ton because many got vaccinated in January

And given that NH residents are the highest risk of deathblower infection rates here starting to translate into fewer deaths
Infections nationally are down about 70% since peak, deaths so far down 40%

But over time, I expect deaths to fall faster than cases because hospitals are getting less stressed

And vaccinations among high risk folks is rising -- and beginning to have an effect
We now have tools to drive down deaths

We'll still lose thousands more Americans

And variants still loom

But if we vaccinate quickly and hold tight on policy

Horrible days of sustained 2000-3000 daily deaths could be behind us

End

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on February 23, 2021, 12:04:32 PM

I know some will roll their eyes at Bill Kristol, but I thought this interview with the dean of Brown's school of public health was interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtTIUA25dhA&feature=emb_title

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warrior2008 on February 23, 2021, 12:07:03 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on February 22, 2021, 03:32:02 PM

I also think the message, "even if you get the vaccine things are going to take awhile to get back to normal" is one that is going to frustrate a lot of people.

This vaccine is pretty terrific.  Even those who get sick aren't getting so sick that they are going to hospitals and dying.  We should be celebrating this!  And as Frenn's said, the ability for people to return to something normal is what is going to drive them to get vaccinated.  There should be an entire push around that!

I couldn't agree more.  Someday we will look at the development of the mRNA vaccines in the same light as other once in a generation advancements, but the message about these vaccines is getting muddied by the press and poorly sold by public health officials and politicians.  The argument that not worrying about bad covid outcomes being enough for people to get vaccinated isn't going to move the vaccine fence sitters.  Particularly its not going to move younger people who look at the covid outcomes and see that they would very likely not be hospitalized if they contracted covid.  Tying the vaccine to a return to normal is being done elsewhere, particularly in Israel, and its helped with vaccine acceptance.

Now I'm not advocating for ripping the band aid off if you're vaccinated, but people telling people who are fully vaccinated that they shouldn't go out to dinner or to a movie is counterproductive.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on February 24, 2021, 07:15:28 AM

I think we all realize it by now, but just in case anybody is still confused ...

(https://ecp.yusercontent.com/mail?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic01.nyt.com%2Fimages%2F2021%2F02%2F24%2Fmultimedia%2F24-MORNING-FLUVCOVID%2F24-MORNING-FLUVCOVID-articleLarge.png&t=1614172422&ymreqid=3c8d0d78-3338-e941-1cf5-99077901fc00&sig=HNpEeTqHaBMJJV6fKEBx9w--~D)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on February 24, 2021, 07:22:12 AM

So, 30% more in a year than the flu takes out in a decade.     

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on February 24, 2021, 08:52:21 AM

Quote from: tower912 on February 24, 2021, 07:22:12 AM

So, 30% more in a year than the flu takes out in a decade.   

Without considering covid, I would have honestly thought the flu deaths would be higher. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on February 24, 2021, 08:58:01 AM

I expected flu deaths to be way down in 2020 considering it seemed more people got vaccinated, more people practicing safe hygiene, wearing masks, social distancing etc.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on February 24, 2021, 12:22:10 PM

Quote from: MU82 on February 24, 2021, 07:15:28 AM

I think we all realize it by now, but just in case anybody is still confused ...

(https://ecp.yusercontent.com/mail?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic01.nyt.com%2Fimages%2F2021%2F02%2F24%2Fmultimedia%2F24-MORNING-FLUVCOVID%2F24-MORNING-FLUVCOVID-articleLarge.png&t=1614172422&ymreqid=3c8d0d78-3338-e941-1cf5-99077901fc00&sig=HNpEeTqHaBMJJV6fKEBx9w--~D)

Wonder what the annual Covid deaths will be once the vaccines have been fully rolled out.  Obviously you’re comparing apples to oranges with numbers for a virus that has had an effective vaccine for decades compared to a brand new unvaccinated virus.

Once that happens will be interesting to see if annual influenza deaths top annual Covid deaths or vice versa.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on February 24, 2021, 01:01:08 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on February 24, 2021, 12:22:10 PM

Wonder what the annual Covid deaths will be once the vaccines have been fully rolled out.  Obviously you’re comparing apples to oranges with numbers for a virus that has had an effective vaccine for decades compared to a brand new unvaccinated virus.

Once that happens will be interesting to see if annual influenza deaths top annual Covid deaths or vice versa.

If you counted flu deaths in the same way they count COVID deaths, there would also be far fewer flu deaths recorded each year. The CDC estimates, that are in this figure, are 6x higher than the actual reported and verified flu and pneumonia deaths combined. Remove the pneumonia deaths that are not flu related and the numbers shown there are likely 10x higher than would be reported if you used the same criteria for deaths as is being used for COVID.

So apples to oranges, yes. But in the completely opposite way you are suggesting.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on February 24, 2021, 01:07:50 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on February 24, 2021, 12:22:10 PM

Wonder what the annual Covid deaths will be once the vaccines have been fully rolled out.  Obviously you’re comparing apples to oranges with numbers for a virus that has had an effective vaccine for decades compared to a brand new unvaccinated virus.

Once that happens will be interesting to see if annual influenza deaths top annual Covid deaths or vice versa.

Well, it mostly was das fuhrer and his cultists who kept comparing COVID-19 to the flu (not to mention Herr Rushbo, who called it "the common cold"), so you might want to have your apples-to-oranges chat with them.

It's a shame that anybody dies from the flu, but the death rate from the flu is 5x lower than it is for COVID-19.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20201218/covid-19-is-far-more-lethal-damaging-than-flu-data-shows#1

Also, although millions of Americans get the flu every year, it's difficult to know how many because most don't even go see a doctor.

But nice try.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on February 24, 2021, 01:22:50 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on February 24, 2021, 12:22:10 PM

Obviously you’re comparing apples to oranges with numbers for a virus that has had an effective vaccine for decades compared to a brand new unvaccinated virus.

The main reason people are comparing COVID to the flu is because Big Orange told us this was 'just the flu.'

So you're right - it is apples to oranges. If only our fearless leader had been honest about that from the beginning....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on February 24, 2021, 04:28:48 PM

Quote from: MU82 on February 24, 2021, 01:07:50 PM

Well, it mostly was das fuhrer and his cultists who kept comparing COVID-19 to the flu (not to mention Herr Rushbo, who called it "the common cold"), so you might want to have your apples-to-oranges chat with them.

It's a shame that anybody dies from the flu, but the death rate from the flu is 5x lower than it is for COVID-19.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20201218/covid-19-is-far-more-lethal-damaging-than-flu-data-shows#1

Also, although millions of Americans get the flu every year, it's difficult to know how many because most don't even go see a doctor.

But nice try.

You are missing my point hombre.  Influenza has an effective vaccine, Covid did not until very recently.  Once they both have effective vaccines to mitigate serious illness and or death it’ll be interesting to see which virus will pose a bigger threat moving forward. 

I haven’t looked cause I don’t care that much but I’m guessing mortality rate for influenza prior to the vaccine being developed was probably quite horrific.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on February 24, 2021, 04:37:32 PM

I wasn’t arguing Covid poses less of a threat to public health then the flu.  It’s obviously much deadlier but only because there was no vaccine for it. 

I’m guessing starting in 2021 and moving forward annual influenza linked deaths will be far greater then annual Covid deaths, that’s all.  Not sure why you guys had to make it political but when you only got one trick in the bag I guess I understand why. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 25, 2021, 06:20:08 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on February 24, 2021, 04:37:32 PM

I wasn’t arguing Covid poses less of a threat to public health then the flu.  It’s obviously much deadlier but only because there was no vaccine for it. 

I’m guessing starting in 2021 and moving forward annual influenza linked deaths will be far greater then annual Covid deaths, that’s all.  Not sure why you guys had to make it political but when you only got one trick in the bag I guess I understand why.

What I'm hopeful comes out of this is better mRNA vaccine technology.  We need it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on February 25, 2021, 07:02:38 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on February 24, 2021, 04:37:32 PM

I wasn’t arguing Covid poses less of a threat to public health then the flu.  It’s obviously much deadlier but only because there was no vaccine for it. 

I’m guessing starting in 2021 and moving forward annual influenza linked deaths will be far greater then annual Covid deaths, that’s all.  Not sure why you guys had to make it political but when you only got one trick in the bag I guess I understand why.

When you're comparing a vaccine with >90% effectiveness that's going to be almost mandatory vs a flu vaccine that's about 60% effective and 40% of the population get that's a poor combination. Like saying "there's less polio deaths now than the flu"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on February 25, 2021, 07:21:38 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on February 25, 2021, 07:02:38 AM

When you're comparing a vaccine with >90% effectiveness that's going to be almost mandatory vs a flu vaccine that's about 60% effective and 40% of the population get that's a poor combination. Like saying "there's less polio deaths now than the flu"

Agree 100% it’ll remain an apples to oranges comparison and for that same reason you explained is why comparing 2020 Covid deaths to recent prior year influenza deaths isn’t exactly fair either.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on February 25, 2021, 07:31:00 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on February 24, 2021, 08:58:01 AM

I expected flu deaths to be way down in 2020 considering it seemed more people got vaccinated, more people practicing safe hygiene, wearing masks, social distancing etc.

I think one more factor is the massive reduction in travel, especially international.   Can't get this year's flu if no one brings the strain over from Asia.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on February 25, 2021, 08:14:56 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on February 25, 2021, 07:21:38 AM

Agree 100% it’ll remain an apples to oranges comparison and for that same reason you explained is why comparing 2020 Covid deaths to recent prior year influenza deaths isn’t exactly fair either.

So what you've been saying is...this isn't "just the flu."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on February 25, 2021, 08:23:37 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on February 25, 2021, 07:21:38 AM

Agree 100% it’ll remain an apples to oranges comparison and for that same reason you explained is why comparing 2020 Covid deaths to recent prior year influenza deaths isn’t exactly fair either.

I'm not sure anybody in their right mind would make a flu comparison. Seems like you agree it's a very idiotic comparison and something that shouldn't ever be done.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on February 25, 2021, 08:54:16 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on February 25, 2021, 08:23:37 AM

I'm not sure anybody in their right mind would make a flu comparison. Seems like you agree it's a very idiotic comparison and something that shouldn't ever be done.

Is it but boy there were a lot of folks on both sides of the political aisle making that comparison early on in 2020.

https://mobile.twitter.com/BrentScher/status/1364938451158790145

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on February 25, 2021, 09:02:06 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 25, 2021, 06:20:08 AM

What I'm hopeful comes out of this is better mRNA vaccine technology.  We need it.

Agree completely.

mRNA technology has been moving forward for quite a while, but the growth has been slow and steady because it was lacking the urgency of a crisis. The pandemic gave it that urgency (and the attendant funding) that pushed it forward dramatically. And with variants continuing to evolve, these advances will continue as we look for a quickly-developed booster.

These advances should help us dramatically in the fight against new illnesses.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on February 25, 2021, 09:09:45 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on February 25, 2021, 08:54:16 AM

Is it but boy there were a lot of folks on both sides of the political aisle making that comparison early on in 2020.

https://mobile.twitter.com/BrentScher/status/1364938451158790145

That was a common misconception early, before we knew much about Covid. But Big Orange was still making the claim in October, long after the experts had disproven the earlier statements and changed their advice accordingly.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-compares-covid-flu-experts-say-he-s-flat-wrong-n1242258

Scientists (and intelligent people) change their beliefs and comments as the information evolves. Fools double-down.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on February 25, 2021, 09:48:48 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on February 25, 2021, 08:54:16 AM

Is it but boy there were a lot of folks on both sides of the political aisle making that comparison early on in 2020.

https://mobile.twitter.com/BrentScher/status/1364938451158790145

"Both sides"

Whataboutism

Mr. Disingenuous strikes again!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on February 25, 2021, 10:06:25 AM

One side learned.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on February 25, 2021, 10:08:01 AM

Quote from: tower912 on February 25, 2021, 10:06:25 AM

One side learned.

Exactly.  A lot of people thought the earth was flat, including some very intelligent people, before 1492.  Now only the crazies think it is.

I don't think this makes the point Pace thinks it makes.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on February 25, 2021, 10:16:53 AM

Quote from: tower912 on February 25, 2021, 10:06:25 AM

One side learned.

Not to mention the clip is taken out of context.

It was in part to emphasize, go get a flu shot. At the very least, if more people get the flu shot, there is less pressure on the hospital systems. It was also to help stop the hysteria leading to hoarding TP and PPE. The latter was desperately needed for front line workers and was being hoarded by random citizens, who had no need for hospital grade PPE.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on February 25, 2021, 10:27:11 AM

https://wgntv.com/news/chicago-news/cdc-report-68-of-people-who-exercised-indoors-at-one-chicago-gym-contracted-covid-19/

Wear the damn mask. The other protocols were followed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on February 25, 2021, 11:20:53 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on February 25, 2021, 10:08:01 AM

Exactly.  A lot of people thought the earth was flat, including some very intelligent people, before 1492.  Now only the crazies think it is.

I don't think this makes the point Pace thinks it makes.

Absolutely!  Also, itmakes the exact point I thought it did.  With the passing of RL there’s been a lot of recent attention and mockery to a comment he made in Feb 2020 comparing Covid to the common cold. 

My point, which remains accurate was that at that time a lot of people were staying stupid sh*t but on this board it’s only certain comments that get criticized over and over and over again when it’s made by a individual associated with the Republican party.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on February 25, 2021, 11:25:20 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on February 25, 2021, 11:20:53 AM

Absolutely!  Also, itmakes the exact point I thought it did.  With the passing of RL there’s been a lot of recent attention and mockery to a comment he made in Feb 2020 comparing Covid to the common cold. 

My point, which remains accurate was that at that time a lot of people were staying stupid sh*t but on this board it’s only certain comments that get criticized over and over and over again when it’s made by a individual associated with the Republican party.

So you think nobody has the mindset that covid is the flu anymore?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on February 25, 2021, 11:25:37 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on February 25, 2021, 11:20:53 AM

Absolutely!  Also, itmakes the exact point I thought it did.  With the passing of RL there’s been a lot of recent attention and mockery to a comment he made in Feb 2020 comparing Covid to the common cold. 

My point, which remains accurate was that at that time a lot of people were staying stupid sh*t but on this board it’s only certain comments that get criticized over and over and over again when it’s made by a individual associated with the Republican party.

I think that's very fair to say everyone who compared it to the flu in March and February has egg on their face. I think you'd agree that anyone comparing it to the flu after April, or say in October is doubling down on stupid comparisons because they're too stubborn to admit they're wrong.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on February 25, 2021, 11:32:00 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on February 25, 2021, 11:25:37 AM

I think that's very fair to say everyone who compared it to the flu in March and February has egg on their face. I think you'd agree that anyone comparing it to the flu after April, or say in October is doubling down on stupid comparisons because they're too stubborn to admit they're wrong.

Yup, on board with that.  I said at the time Orange bad mans messaging around and handling of the pandemic was going to sink him and it obviously did.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on March 01, 2021, 07:39:06 PM

https://mobile.twitter.com/justin_hart/status/1366501782407417856

What happened back in April already that led to such a shocking drop in case mortality and hospitalization rate? 

Just more testing being performed so the denominator was getting larger?  Really is stunning to see how low the case fatality rate is if you’re under 60.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 01, 2021, 11:41:14 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on March 01, 2021, 07:39:06 PM

https://mobile.twitter.com/justin_hart/status/1366501782407417856

What happened back in April already that led to such a shocking drop in case mortality and hospitalization rate? 

Just more testing being performed so the denominator was getting larger?  Really is stunning to see how low the case fatality rate is if you’re under 60.

Mortality and hospitalization #s are only counting those who tested positive.  So more (negative) testing wouldn't change that.  Now, perhaps we didn't have enough tests and were not catching all the positives, but I think learning how to treat people was the difference in the first couple months vs. after.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on March 02, 2021, 08:19:32 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 01, 2021, 11:41:14 PM

Mortality and hospitalization #s are only counting those who tested positive.  So more (negative) testing wouldn't change that.  Now, perhaps we didn't have enough tests and were not catching all the positives, but I think learning how to treat people was the difference in the first couple months vs. after.

Trying to remember back that far but was it the over use of ventilators, lack of patient proning, or maybe simply masking just reduced the viral load intake improving things so dramatically and quickly but either way thank god we got things somewhat figured out early on otherwise this would have been a disaster 25x’s the disaster it already was.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 02, 2021, 10:34:16 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on March 02, 2021, 08:19:32 AM

Trying to remember back that far but was it the over use of ventilators, lack of patient proning, or maybe simply masking just reduced the viral load intake improving things so dramatically and quickly but either way thank god we got things somewhat figured out early on otherwise this would have been a disaster 25x’s the disaster it already was.

I think it was all of the above...plus the late recognition of the effectiveness of Dexamethasone for hospitalized patients...plus the lack of Remdesovir as a treatment option for patients requiring oxygen.

It reminds me of the AIDS crisis back in the 80s and 90s. Even though we still don't have a 'cure' or even a vaccine, the virus is no longer a death sentence due to a combination of new drugs and clinicians' evolving understanding of treatment options.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 02, 2021, 10:35:21 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on March 01, 2021, 07:39:06 PM

https://mobile.twitter.com/justin_hart/status/1366501782407417856

What happened back in April already that led to such a shocking drop in case mortality and hospitalization rate? 

Just more testing being performed so the denominator was getting larger?  Really is stunning to see how low the case fatality rate is if you’re under 60.

Hydroxy

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on March 02, 2021, 01:36:44 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 02, 2021, 10:34:16 AM

It reminds me of the AIDS crisis back in the 80s and 90s. Even though we still don't have a 'cure' or even a vaccine, the virus is no longer a death sentence due to a combination of new drugs and clinicians' evolving understanding of treatment options.

Yep, per Nurse Chick, jr., it's now considered to be a condition with a similar prognosis to Type I Diabetes - a lifelong medical condition which is deadly if untreated, but if managed properly, a person can live a long, full life.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on March 02, 2021, 03:44:37 PM

Doc and Rocket should probably just move down to TX.  Covid doesn't exist there anymore, apparently.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 02, 2021, 04:06:51 PM

Quote from: BLM on March 02, 2021, 03:44:37 PM

Doc and Rocket should probably just move down to TX.  Covid doesn't exist there anymore, apparently.

It wasn't weatherproofed for winter, just like the Texas electrical grid.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 02, 2021, 10:53:07 PM

Quote from: BLM on March 02, 2021, 03:44:37 PM

Doc and Rocket should probably just move down to TX.  Covid doesn't exist there anymore, apparently.

TX Governor signing peoples death warrants. His decision is going to kill people. You will have schools 100% open, no requirement for the kids to wear masks anymore, and teachers still not able to get a vaccine.

Seriously, should be able to charge someone like him for reckless homicide. Just makes zero sense, especially for a state with such a poor performance in vaccination.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 02, 2021, 11:09:15 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 02, 2021, 10:53:07 PM

TX Governor signing peoples death warrants. His decision is going to kill people. You will have schools 100% open, no requirement for the kids to wear masks anymore, and teachers still not able to get a vaccine.

Seriously, should be able to charge someone like him for reckless homicide. Just makes zero sense, especially for a state with such a poor performance in vaccination.

He'll just blame the non-existent Green New Deal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on March 02, 2021, 11:11:15 PM

Quote from: forgetful on March 02, 2021, 10:53:07 PM

TX Governor signing peoples death warrants. His decision is going to kill people. You will have schools 100% open, no requirement for the kids to wear masks anymore, and teachers still not able to get a vaccine.

Seriously, should be able to charge someone like him for reckless homicide. Just makes zero sense, especially for a state with such a poor performance in vaccination.

Does it make more or less sense when compared to this administrations immigration policy at Texas border.  NBC reported tonight immigrants are testing positive for covid and just being let go to wherever their destination is.  Would we charge Biden as well with reckless homicide?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 02, 2021, 11:14:00 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on March 02, 2021, 11:11:15 PM

NBC reported tonight immigrants are testing positive for covid and just being let go to wherever their destination is. 

Admittedly snark (with some truth): Would you rather pen them them up with other immigrants like the previous administration?

The correct answer is set them up with proper health care - as you would want to be treated yourself.  I don't know that those kinds of facilities are available for immigrants.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on March 02, 2021, 11:19:22 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 02, 2021, 11:14:00 PM

Admittedly snark (with some truth): Would you rather pen them them up with other immigrants like the previous administration?

The correct answer is set them up with proper health care - as you would want to be treated yourself.  I don't know that those kinds of facilities are available for immigrants.

I’d rather we encourage and enforce the legal process of immigration.  And if you haven’t been following the news we are currently putting housing them in cages storage bins.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 02, 2021, 11:21:03 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on March 02, 2021, 11:19:22 PM

I’d rather we encourage and enforce the legal process of immigration.  And if you haven’t been following the news we are currently putting housing them in cages storage bins.

I actually don't follow the news much at all.  Avoidance is good for my mental health :)  Much of what you yahoos post I have to google to figure out what's going on.  I haven't googled the issue you mentioned from NBC, but I suspect "there's more to the story".

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on March 02, 2021, 11:24:54 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 02, 2021, 11:21:03 PM

I actually don't follow the news much at all.  Avoidance is good for my mental health :)

👏👏very sound advice, truthfully!!  Our media is broken beyond repair.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on March 02, 2021, 11:27:25 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 02, 2021, 11:21:03 PM

I actually don't follow the news much at all.  Avoidance is good for my mental health :)  Much of what you yahoos post I have to google to figure out what's going on.  I haven't googled the issue you mentioned from NBC, but I suspect "there's more to the story".

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1259282

Not much more to the story....about 7% of migrants are testing positive and being sent on their way with the recommendation to isolate.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on March 02, 2021, 11:35:21 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 02, 2021, 11:21:03 PM

I actually don't follow the news much at all.  Avoidance is good for my mental health :)  Much of what you yahoos post I have to google to figure out what's going on.  I haven't googled the issue you mentioned from NBC, but I suspect "there's more to the story".

https://mobile.twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1364051498506805266?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1364051498506805266%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fthefederalist.com%2F2021%2F02%2F23%2Fwhite-house-defends-putting-migrant-kids-in-caged-shipping-containers-because-covid%2F

Not that you give a rip but if you do here are the temp controlled shipping containers we’re now using

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 02, 2021, 11:36:46 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on March 02, 2021, 11:27:25 PM

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1259282

Not much more to the story....about 7% of migrants are testing positive and being sent on their way with the recommendation to isolate.

I suspect that is the right move.  Holding them in a super spreader detention center is not a good idea.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/americas-immigration-system-is-a-covid-superspreader1/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on March 02, 2021, 11:41:01 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 02, 2021, 11:36:46 PM

I suspect that is the right move.  Holding them in a super spreader detention center is not a good idea.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/americas-immigration-system-is-a-covid-superspreader1/

Agreed no good answer but maybe just lock the border down for a bit like every other damn country in the world and if you won’t do that save the reckless homicide high horse mumbo jumbo, obviously not directed at you.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 02, 2021, 11:41:43 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on March 02, 2021, 11:35:21 PM

Not that you give a rip but if you do here are the temp controlled shipping containers we’re now using

I actually give lots of rips.  This really isn't the right thread for discussing immigration (we don't really have one of those  :P).  But the article you link mentions these are for unaccompanied minors.  A difficult situation to manage no matter your politics, I think you'd agree.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 03, 2021, 12:12:05 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on March 02, 2021, 11:27:25 PM

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1259282

Not much more to the story....about 7% of migrants are testing positive and being sent on their way with the recommendation to isolate.

Sounds like they are treating the migrants pretty much the same as they treat everybody else. Not the perfect solution, but a definite improvement.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 03, 2021, 06:03:08 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on March 02, 2021, 11:19:22 PM

I’d rather we encourage and enforce the legal process of immigration.  And if you haven’t been following the news we are currently putting housing them in cages storage bins.

You'll be happy to note, that they are following the legal process of immigration. People have the legal right to seek asylum, which is what is going on in the articles you linked.

Now, onto the TX governor who is neither following any laws, or scientific evidence, in making a decision which will kill people. Even business analysts say this may actually make the economy worse (as some people now stay home for fear of COVID, and/or increased spread slows business). Why, for political gain and to distract from his failures regarding energy.

Also, per the TX governor, those asylum seekers you are worried about will no longer be required to wear a mask.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on March 03, 2021, 07:15:53 AM

The Texas governor is making a political decision to try to distract from the last political, economic, societal calamity that occurred in Texas.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on March 03, 2021, 07:25:11 AM

Quote from: forgetful on March 03, 2021, 06:03:08 AM

You'll be happy to note, that they are following the legal process of immigration. People have the legal right to seek asylum, which is what is going on in the articles you linked.

Now, onto the TX governor who is neither following any laws, or scientific evidence, in making a decision which will kill people. Even business analysts say this may actually make the economy worse (as some people now stay home for fear of COVID, and/or increased spread slows business). Why, for political gain and to distract from his failures regarding energy.

Also, per the TX governor, those asylum seekers you are worried about will no longer be required to wear a mask.

🤦‍♂️

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 03, 2021, 07:31:54 AM

Quote from: forgetful on March 03, 2021, 06:03:08 AM

Why, for political gain and to distract from his failures regarding energy.

He learned from the best. This is classic, Trumpian misdirection.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on March 03, 2021, 07:47:33 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 02, 2021, 11:41:43 PM

I actually give lots of rips.  This really isn't the right thread for discussing immigration (we don't really have one of those  :P).  But the article you link mentions these are for unaccompanied minors.  A difficult situation to manage no matter your politics, I think you'd agree.

You’re right, started to veer off the side of the road from where the original conversation started.  Agree 100% on a difficult situation no matter what angle you’re looking at it from.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 03, 2021, 08:13:51 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on March 02, 2021, 11:19:22 PM

I’d rather we encourage and enforce the legal process of immigration. 

That's cool...until children without parents show up at the border.  Then what do you do?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on March 03, 2021, 08:20:22 AM

I chuckled when I saw a FB post about how how their freedoms were restored because of the mask mandate being taken away.

I probably have limited my social interaction more than the average person, but I would feel less comfortable going out to shop or even our child’s daycare if the mask mandate was dropped. Does that mean my freedoms are being taken away by no mask mandate?

With us being so close to the end of this, it feels like just keep it until early June when almost everyone is vaccinated.

Full disclosure, I’ve been able to work from home since the start of this and other than a temporary pay cut, our livelihood hasn’t really been impacted. So my frame of reference could be missing a lot.

Rolling back business restrictions isn’t a bad thing if done right. I don’t know exactly the restrictions in Texas. I just feel this is a bad idea.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on March 03, 2021, 08:40:49 AM

Quote from: cheebs09 on March 03, 2021, 08:20:22 AM

I chuckled when I saw a FB post about how how their freedoms were restored because of the mask mandate being taken away.

I probably have limited my social interaction more than the average person, but I would feel less comfortable going out to shop or even our child’s daycare if the mask mandate was dropped. Does that mean my freedoms are being taken away by no mask mandate?

With us being so close to the end of this, it feels like just keep it until early June when almost everyone is vaccinated.

Full disclosure, I’ve been able to work from home since the start of this and other than a temporary pay cut, our livelihood hasn’t really been impacted. So my frame of reference could be missing a lot.

Rolling back business restrictions isn’t a bad thing if done right. I don’t know exactly the restrictions in Texas. I just feel this is a bad idea.

By having the option to weigh the risk reward of going out to partake in shopping etc is all people have been asking for.

By shutting business down it eliminates that option, hence the “we want our freedom back” crowd (which I think is silly).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on March 03, 2021, 09:00:03 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on March 03, 2021, 08:40:49 AM

By having the option to weigh the risk reward of going out to partake in shopping etc is all people have been asking for.

By shutting business down it eliminates that option, hence the “we want our freedom back” crowd (which I think is silly).

I can agree with the opening businesses. Frankly, I’m not totally sure what the restrictions are in Wisconsin. It seems mostly limited indoor dining and large gatherings. Obviously the festivals and sporting events are a big hit to the local economy.

But that should be independent of masks. I mean is wearing a mask preventing anyone from doing anything outside of those with health conditions that shouldn’t wear masks? Which seems to be a select few, and they’d probably be at the greatest risk of Covid anyways.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 03, 2021, 09:08:49 AM

over 100 covid positive"migrants" have been released into our country since end of january??  they won't let you fly if you are covid positive

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on March 03, 2021, 09:33:00 AM

Quote from: cheebs09 on March 03, 2021, 09:00:03 AM

I can agree with the opening businesses. Frankly, I’m not totally sure what the restrictions are in Wisconsin. It seems mostly limited indoor dining and large gatherings. Obviously the festivals and sporting events are a big hit to the local economy.

But that should be independent of masks. I mean is wearing a mask preventing anyone from doing anything outside of those with health conditions that shouldn’t wear masks? Which seems to be a select few, and they’d probably be at the greatest risk of Covid anyways.

Agree with you here.  I think the most logical next step is to open everything up with no restrictions but keep mask mandates in place til June 1.

If states are going to continue to drop their local mask mandates why can’t Biden swoop in and put in place a national mask mandates from sea to shining sea?  That is of course what everyone was demanding the previous administration do.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: SERocks on March 03, 2021, 09:46:26 AM

Quote from: cheebs09 on March 03, 2021, 08:20:22 AM

I probably have limited my social interaction more than the average person, but I would feel less comfortable going out to shop or even our child’s daycare if the mask mandate was dropped. Does that mean my freedoms are being taken away by no mask mandate?

The short answer is YES.

I made this argument a while back when the anti-maskers said that the compromised individuals should remain home and let the rest of the population go about its business.  And when some claimed a medical condition or some sort of PTSD should allow them to not wear a mask.  If that is the case, and you cannot wear a mask, you stay home like you are arguing the compromised individuals should.

Here in Burlington it seems no one cares any more. Restaurants and bars are busy, at least it seems that way due to the number of automobiles parked outside them as I drive by.  I have not been in any for over a year, so....  I will continue to do my part to keep mine safe.  I just hope the idiots running around catching covid don't create an escape variant that the vaccines do not protect against.  The world does not need to start over on the period of time we need to endure this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 03, 2021, 09:47:11 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 03, 2021, 09:08:49 AM

over 100 covid positive"migrants" have been released into our country since end of january??  they won't let you fly if you are covid positive

You're implying that migrants are somehow more careless about covid than the average American.  You see how that is a tad on the racist side, right?

And no one should fly if they are covid positive, so what's your point? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on March 03, 2021, 10:22:47 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 03, 2021, 09:47:11 AM

You're implying that migrants are somehow more careless about covid than the average American.  You see how that is a tad on the racist side, right?

And no one should fly if they are covid positive, so what's your point?

I think his point is migrants at the border have more freedom of movement then Americans have had for almost a year within our own country.  We weren’t able to go to Illinois without quarantine, public shaming, etc but we’re allowing Covid positive non-citizens to be released out into communities and the response is “oh well”?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on March 03, 2021, 10:23:26 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 03, 2021, 09:47:11 AM

You're implying that migrants are somehow more careless about covid than the average American.  You see how that is a tad on the racist side, right?

And no one should fly if they are covid positive, so what's your point?

How is that comment racist?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 03, 2021, 10:26:02 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on March 03, 2021, 09:33:00 AM

Agree with you here.  I think the most logical next step is to open everything up with no restrictions but keep mask mandates in place til June 1.

If states are going to continue to drop their local mask mandates why can’t Biden swoop in and put in place a national mask mandates from sea to shining sea?  That is of course what everyone was demanding the previous administration do.

Nope.  People were suggesting that Trump encourage the states to follow CDC's advice.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 03, 2021, 10:31:01 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 03, 2021, 09:47:11 AM

You're implying that migrants are somehow more careless about covid than the average American.  You see how that is a tad on the racist side, right?

And no one should fly if they are covid positive, so what's your point?

Not entirely sure it's racist. It's something, but not racist. I mean he didn't say "all these people are latinx so they definitely have Covid" it was more an insinuation that because the countries these people come from are lacking infrastructure and they've been living in close quarters that they definitely have Covid.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on March 03, 2021, 11:56:16 AM

CDC set to announce today that once vaccinated you can go about your daily life without a mask.  That’s the change in messaging tone needed to get more needles in arms, let’s go!!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 03, 2021, 11:58:00 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on March 03, 2021, 11:56:16 AM

CDC set to announce today that once vaccinated you can go about your daily life without a mask.  That’s the change in messaging tone needed to get more needles in arms, let’s go!!!

This I agree with. The difference in dangling that fruit to incentivize unenthusiastic individuals vs keeping with the "we may be wearing masks into 2022" message will be huge to getting people vaccinated and the economy bumping.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 03, 2021, 12:10:08 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on March 03, 2021, 08:40:49 AM

By having the option to weigh the risk reward of going out to partake in shopping etc is all people have been asking for.

Do you get to weigh the risk reward of driving through red lights at intersections?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on March 03, 2021, 12:20:14 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 03, 2021, 12:10:08 PM

Do you get to weigh the risk reward of driving through red lights at intersections?

Yes, I’ve taken that risk reward balance into an account on more then one occasion when facing a red light.  I’m sure you have as well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 03, 2021, 01:37:59 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on March 03, 2021, 12:20:14 PM

Yes, I’ve taken that risk reward balance into an account on more then one occasion when facing a red light.  I’m sure you have as well.

Nah, man. You should do it ALL the time. YOU should be the one to decide whether to put yourself and others at risk, not Big Gubmint.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 03, 2021, 02:12:50 PM

Just read that it was 1 year ago today that NC recorded its first case of COVID-19.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on March 03, 2021, 02:30:49 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 03, 2021, 01:37:59 PM

Nah, man. You should do it ALL the time. YOU should be the one to decide whether to put yourself and others at risk, not Big Gubmint.

Huh?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on March 03, 2021, 02:36:31 PM

https://mobile.twitter.com/dcexaminer/status/1367201197845712896

Here it comes!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 03, 2021, 02:37:29 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on March 03, 2021, 02:36:31 PM

https://mobile.twitter.com/dcexaminer/status/1367201197845712896

Here it comes!!

This is true. It'll never happen but it's true.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on March 03, 2021, 02:47:05 PM

https://mobile.twitter.com/CNBC/status/1367154551564820485

I’ve posted a lot of garbage and bad links in the last 12 months including some stuff from RT🤦‍♂️ But this interview with Scotty G is sososo spot on and well worth a listen if you can ignore the racist language a bit.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 03, 2021, 02:54:11 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on March 03, 2021, 02:30:49 PM

Huh?

Good dodge

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on March 03, 2021, 03:00:27 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on March 03, 2021, 02:36:31 PM

https://mobile.twitter.com/dcexaminer/status/1367201197845712896

Here it comes!!

I've heard Dr. Offit on other platforms and he's been optimistic about the vaccine ending the need for masks once enough shots get into arms. I'll have to find the full interview.

Regardless, I do think there's a decent chance these measures stick beyond COVID.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on March 03, 2021, 03:05:23 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 03, 2021, 02:54:11 PM

Good dodge

I honestly couldn’t make out what your response meant.  Not dodging anything, I prefer to spell it DOGE also.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 03, 2021, 03:26:15 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 03, 2021, 09:47:11 AM

You're implying that migrants are somehow more careless about covid than the average American.  You see how that is a tad on the racist side, right?

And no one should fly if they are covid positive, so what's your point?

only you and a few others here would see "racism" in there...that's getting really old.  you are the one doing the implying.  you have a racist mind?  no implication here at all.  while we are trying to manage and decrease our covid numbers, the dementia dude is blowing the dog whistle to come on in!  no, not dog whistle...a blow horn!  you are aware of the fact that the illegals coming up to and thru our border are of many races too, right?  so, you should have just called me a xenophobe, eyn'a?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 03, 2021, 03:28:41 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 03, 2021, 03:26:15 PM

only you and a few others here would see "racism" in there...that's getting really old.  you are the one doing the implying.  you have a racist mind?  no implication here at all.  while we are trying to manage and decrease our covid numbers, the dementia dude is blowing the dog whistle to come on in!  no, not dog whistle...a blow horn!  you are aware of the fact that the illegals coming up to and thru our border are of many races too, right?  so, you should have just called me a xenophobe, eyn'a?

Where does the idea that somehow Biden is more diminished than Trump come from?

I find these talking points to be exceedingly weird and not terribly accurate.  I guess I am not that surprised.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 03, 2021, 03:44:42 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 03, 2021, 03:28:41 PM

Where does the idea that somehow Biden is more diminished than Trump come from?

I find these talking points to be exceedingly weird and not terribly accurate.  I guess I am not that surprised.

Agreed. Im pretty sure most here can agree Biden is definitely senile. The fact that a whole side cannot see that in their own guy is baffling.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 03, 2021, 04:06:31 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 03, 2021, 03:44:42 PM

Agreed. Im pretty sure most here can agree Biden is definitely senile. The fact that a whole side cannot see that in their own guy is baffling.

That's what happens when one is in a cult.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 03, 2021, 06:50:30 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 03, 2021, 03:28:41 PM

Where does the idea that somehow Biden is more diminished than Trump come from?

Dude, you know the answer to that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 03, 2021, 07:14:11 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 03, 2021, 03:28:41 PM

Where does the idea that somehow Biden is more diminished than Trump come from?

Straight outta last year's CPAC speech. And once he says it, the base considers it the gospel truth.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-jokes-biden-wont-be-governing-as-president-hell-be-in-a-home

President Trump used part of his CPAC speech on Saturday to criticize former Vice President Joe Biden's mental acuity, joking that he wouldn't be able to handle being president if he won in November.

"How could you be easier to beat than Joe? The guy can't put two sentences together," Trump told a crowd of conservatives.

He added that Biden's "not going to be running the government. He's just going to be sitting in a home someplace and people are going to be running it for him."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on March 03, 2021, 08:03:44 PM

Well that didn’t age well.....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on March 03, 2021, 08:43:45 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on March 03, 2021, 08:03:44 PM

Well that didn’t age well.....

😂

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 04, 2021, 08:47:02 AM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on March 03, 2021, 08:03:44 PM

Well that didn’t age well.....

Be nice. QAnon says today is Trump's "second coming," so the cultists are on edge.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 04, 2021, 10:42:06 AM

Should vaccinated people count toward capacity?

Just saw the capacity limits for the Brewers and was thinking if you get 25% capacity of "open tickets" and then make the rest available to clearly vaccinated parties why shouldn't they be able to go without restriction?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on March 04, 2021, 10:55:03 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 04, 2021, 10:42:06 AM

Should vaccinated people count toward capacity?

Just saw the capacity limits for the Brewers and was thinking if you get 25% capacity of "open tickets" and then make the rest available to clearly vaccinated parties why shouldn't they be able to go without restriction?

👏👏

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on March 04, 2021, 10:57:24 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 04, 2021, 10:42:06 AM

Should vaccinated people count toward capacity?

Just saw the capacity limits for the Brewers and was thinking if you get 25% capacity of "open tickets" and then make the rest available to clearly vaccinated parties why shouldn't they be able to go without restriction?

I think that should be the expectation across the board.  March madness, NBA, etc...

Make tickets available only online aside from the 25% “open tickets” can be purchased at the window and when you buy online you need to upload your vaccination card.  Make those electronic tickets no transferable and away you go!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 04, 2021, 11:08:59 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on March 04, 2021, 10:57:24 AM

I think that should be the expectation across the board.  March madness, NBA, etc...

Make tickets available only online aside from the 25% “open tickets” can be purchased at the window and when you buy online you need to upload your vaccination card.  Make those electronic tickets no transferable and away you go!

Right I think this makes sense. Obviously there's ways to game the system however not every person in the 25% will be unvaxed as well so it should even out.

I just think we're at a decent enough vaccine rate where we can discuss situations like this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warrior2008 on March 04, 2021, 11:19:25 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 04, 2021, 10:42:06 AM

Should vaccinated people count toward capacity?

Just saw the capacity limits for the Brewers and was thinking if you get 25% capacity of "open tickets" and then make the rest available to clearly vaccinated parties why shouldn't they be able to go without restriction?

I'm happy they're allowing 25% capacity, but the banning of tailgating is just plain stupid.  Where do Milwaukee health officials think Brewer fans will go before games if they can't tailgate? Its quite simple, the bars on Bluemound.  So what's safer, tailgating in a huge parking lot with 25% capacity or drinking and eating in a poorly ventilated bar?  I mean if you're gonna allow the 25% into a smaller confined space(Miller Park) in the first place, why can't you let them tailgate in a much larger physical space like the parking lot?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 04, 2021, 11:21:04 AM

Quote from: Warrior2008 on March 04, 2021, 11:19:25 AM

I'm happy they're allowing 25% capacity, but the banning of tailgating is just plain stupid.  Where do Milwaukee health officials think Brewer fans will go before games if they can't tailgate? Its quite simple, the bars on Bluemound.  So what's safer, tailgating in a huge parking lot with 25% capacity or drinking and eating in a poorly ventilated bar?  I mean if you're gonna allow the 25% into a smaller confined space(Miller Park) in the first place, why can't you let them tailgate in a much larger physical space like the parking lot?

Wow yeah that's stupid

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Sir Lawrence on March 04, 2021, 11:24:11 AM

i think Brewers management is worried about some crazy stuff happening in the parking lots that would subject the organization to criticism.  Bad optics that would be spread around and reflect poorly on the Brewers.  You guys are right, it makes no sense from a health standpoint. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 04, 2021, 11:51:19 AM

Fake/forged vaccine cards.

Bad idea.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 04, 2021, 12:11:34 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 04, 2021, 11:51:19 AM

Fake/forged vaccine cards.

Bad idea.

I mean, you can just download it an print it off at Kinkos (do those still exist?)
https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/vaccination-card.pdf

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 04, 2021, 12:11:40 PM

Quote from: Sir Lawrence on March 04, 2021, 11:24:11 AM

i think Brewers management is worried about some crazy stuff happening in the parking lots that would subject the organization to criticism.  Bad optics that would be spread around and reflect poorly on the Brewers.  You guys are right, it makes no sense from a health standpoint. 

It also allows them to capture the market on food and beverage from a smaller crowd.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on March 04, 2021, 12:40:24 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 04, 2021, 11:51:19 AM

Fake/forged vaccine cards.

Bad idea.

No plan is full proof and there will be bad apples no doubt who abuse it but I like to think 99% of people would play by the rules. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 04, 2021, 12:54:25 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 04, 2021, 11:51:19 AM

Fake/forged vaccine cards.

Bad idea.

I mean by this logic shouldn't we not have access to alcohol or weed because fake/forged ID cards?

Even if they simply made the tickets available to local Police, Fire, healthcare. Maybe it's just a thousand or so people but that's one step closer to normalcy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on March 04, 2021, 01:03:36 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 04, 2021, 12:54:25 PM

I mean by this logic shouldn't we not have access to alcohol or weed because fake/forged ID cards?

Even if they simply made the tickets available to local Police, Fire, healthcare. Maybe it's just a thousand or so people but that's one step closer to normalcy.

A better idea would be some sort of national registry where participation is voluntary and venues could use to verify your status.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 04, 2021, 01:19:10 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 04, 2021, 12:11:34 PM

I mean, you can just download it an print it off at Kinkos (do those still exist?)
https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/vaccination-card.pdf

Kinkos was purchased and rebranded as FedEx Office.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 04, 2021, 02:44:19 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 04, 2021, 12:11:40 PM

It also allows them to capture the market on food and beverage from a smaller crowd.

You can never go wrong looking at the $$$$ angle.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 04, 2021, 02:45:36 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 04, 2021, 12:54:25 PM

I mean by this logic shouldn't we not have access to alcohol or weed because fake/forged ID cards?

Well, there are at least some standards with those these days.  The vaccine card is LITERALLY what I posted, and then filled out by hand.  I've seen the completed version of them.  Any dope with a ink-jet printer can have one, fill it out themselves, and be admitted.  There's no national database behind them to be able to verify the info.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 04, 2021, 02:49:15 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 04, 2021, 02:45:36 PM

Well, there are at least some standards with those these days.  The vaccine card is LITERALLY what I posted, and then filled out by hand.  I've seen the completed version of them.  Any dope with a ink-jet printer can have one, fill it out themselves, and be admitted.  There's no national database behind them to be able to verify the info.

Oh I didn't look at the link assumed it was like mine from the hospital which has a sticker with a barcode on it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 04, 2021, 02:59:47 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 04, 2021, 02:49:15 PM

Oh I didn't look at the link assumed it was like mine from the hospital which has a sticker with a barcode on it.

Individual health systems can add their own tracking (most probably do, others should), but beyond that health system the record is virtually impossible to track.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 04, 2021, 03:00:28 PM

I kinda think this isn't going to be a problem come this summer.

Outdoor sporting events, along with tailgating, when you have a majority of the population vaccinated doesn't seem like it would be a problem.  (Especially if the majority of those who aren't vaccinated are refusing by choice.)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 04, 2021, 03:06:10 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 04, 2021, 03:00:28 PM

Outdoor sporting events, along with tailgating, when you have a majority of the population vaccinated doesn't seem like it would be a problem.  (Especially if the majority of those who aren't vaccinated are refusing by choice.)

Agreed.  As long as variants don't somehow arise for a sequel to the year from hell!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 04, 2021, 03:06:42 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 04, 2021, 03:00:28 PM

I kinda think this isn't going to be a problem come this summer.

Outdoor sporting events, along with tailgating, when you have a majority of the population vaccinated doesn't seem like it would be a problem.  (Especially if the majority of those who aren't vaccinated are refusing by choice.)

I agree. I'm just trying to think of ways we can begin weening people back to normalcy who are vaccinated and sort of put a carrot out there for those that are dragging their feet.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 04, 2021, 03:07:59 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 04, 2021, 03:00:28 PM

I kinda think this isn't going to be a problem come this summer.

Outdoor sporting events, along with tailgating, when you have a majority of the population vaccinated doesn't seem like it would be a problem.  (Especially if the majority of those who aren't vaccinated are refusing by choice.)

If a line gets drawn in the sand that at the end of May everyone who wants a vax can have one... then those who don't are okay with the consequences.

My guess is that by the All star break we will see full stadiums... assuming the current vaccine program goes according to plan, and there are no variants that defeat the vax antibodies.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 04, 2021, 03:09:08 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on March 04, 2021, 12:40:24 PM

No plan is full proof and there will be bad apples no doubt who abuse it but I like to think 99% of people would play by the rules.

You believe 99% of the general public plays by the rules?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on March 04, 2021, 03:35:57 PM

Not a chance. I already see people advising other people to lie about being a smoker in order to qualify under pre-existing conditions.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 04, 2021, 03:41:17 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on March 04, 2021, 03:35:57 PM

Not a chance. I already see people advising other people to lie about being a smoker in order to qualify under pre-existing conditions.

Is there a legit smoker definition? Seems like it can be very loosely interpreted and that's on the people who made the guidlines

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on March 04, 2021, 04:05:39 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 04, 2021, 03:09:08 PM

You believe 99% of the general public plays by the rules?

Might be a bit of wishful thinking on my end

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on March 04, 2021, 04:06:51 PM

Now CT opening up with no indoor restrictions!!  The TX decision is starting to open up the floodgates, whooohoo!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 04, 2021, 04:19:04 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on March 04, 2021, 04:06:51 PM

Now CT opening up with no indoor restrictions!!  The TX decision is starting to open up the floodgates, whooohoo!

Let's hope the open flood gates don't drown us or our health care workers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 04, 2021, 04:43:11 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 04, 2021, 04:19:04 PM

Let's hope the open flood gates don't drown us or our health care workers.

It'll be interesting how the public responds.  I know I wouldn't go to a "full" indoor restaurant since nobody would be wearing masks (I mean...they are there to eat, I don't blame them).  But that's not my comfort level yet.  At least until I'm fully vaccinated and have waited the appropriate # of days past the shot for maximum effectiveness.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 04, 2021, 05:08:02 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on March 04, 2021, 04:06:51 PM

Now CT opening up with no indoor restrictions!!  The TX decision is starting to open up the floodgates, whooohoo!

Restrictions and masks are 2 different things.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 04, 2021, 05:09:20 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 04, 2021, 05:08:02 PM

Restrictions and masks are 2 different things.

Yes, but almost nobody wears a mask once they are seated...and in full restaurants/bars people aren't 6 feet apart.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 04, 2021, 05:15:33 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 04, 2021, 05:09:20 PM

Yes, but almost nobody wears a mask once they are seated...and in full restaurants/bars people aren't 6 feet apart.

Understood.

But isn't lifting indoor restrictions applying to everywhere in CT? So, concerts, sporting events, religious gatherings, etc?

If there's still masks, it would help.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 04, 2021, 05:18:39 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 04, 2021, 05:15:33 PM

But isn't lifting indoor restrictions applying to everywhere in CT? So, concerts, sporting events, religious gatherings, etc?

If there's still masks, it would help.

True.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on March 04, 2021, 05:51:32 PM

The IBM app rolling out in NY makes me think vaccine proof/confirmation for selected events in that way will be common very soon and make everything fairly seamless.

I have 4-5 different things on my phone to scan to open me to certain things when traveling abroad. This should be no different

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 04, 2021, 06:13:05 PM

https://www.wtrf.com/news/national-news/target-costco-among-big-retailers-keeping-mask-mandate-in-texas/

Good.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 04, 2021, 07:28:18 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on March 04, 2021, 04:06:51 PM

Now CT opening up with no indoor restrictions!!  The TX decision is starting to open up the floodgates, whooohoo!

neanderthals in CT.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on March 04, 2021, 07:59:49 PM

Yeah, but it's woke to let in 100 covid positive illegals at the Mexican border. Oh, the hypocrisy, aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 04, 2021, 08:06:11 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 04, 2021, 07:59:49 PM

Yeah, but it's woke to let in 100 covid positive illegals at the Mexican border. Oh, the hypocrisy, aina?

I think we should be providing them with isolation space for two weeks and vaccine. 

But yeah I don’t know what’s going on with that. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 04, 2021, 08:13:21 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on March 04, 2021, 05:51:32 PM

The IBM app rolling out in NY makes me think vaccine proof/confirmation for selected events in that way will be common very soon and make everything fairly seamless.

I have 4-5 different things on my phone to scan to open me to certain things when traveling abroad. This should be no different

Agreed. An electronic vaccine passport is the way to go. And people who claim that something like this is an invasion of their privacy can protect their privacy by staying home.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on March 04, 2021, 08:29:35 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 04, 2021, 08:13:21 PM

Agreed. An electronic vaccine passport is the way to go. And people who claim that something like this is an invasion of their privacy can protect their privacy by staying home.

I’m generally adverse to tracking or stuff that could be construed as government monitoring.  But TSA precheck/Global Entry/Clear are indispensable parts of my life as a frequent traveler. I view a vaccine passport/wallet as the same sentiment and have zero issue with it

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 04, 2021, 08:29:49 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 04, 2021, 07:28:18 PM

neanderthals in CT.

If you actually want the facts they are here

https://portal.ct.gov/Office-of-the-Governor/News/Press-Releases/2021/03-2021/Governor-Lamont-Announces-Plans-To-Ease-Some-COVID-19-Restrictions-in-Connecticut (https://portal.ct.gov/Office-of-the-Governor/News/Press-Releases/2021/03-2021/Governor-Lamont-Announces-Plans-To-Ease-Some-COVID-19-Restrictions-in-Connecticut)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 04, 2021, 08:37:38 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on March 04, 2021, 08:29:35 PM

I’m generally adverse to tracking or stuff that could be construed as government monitoring.  But TSA precheck/Global Entry/Clear are indispensable parts of my life as a frequent traveler. I view a vaccine passport/wallet as the same sentiment and have zero issue with it

I’m with ya. I don’t think there should be monitoring for the sake of monitoring, with no attendant benefit. But in this case (as with the others you mentioned) people would submit to monitoring for the specific purpose of obtaining a privilege.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 04, 2021, 09:09:45 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 04, 2021, 02:59:47 PM

Individual health systems can add their own tracking (most probably do, others should), but beyond that health system the record is virtually impossible to track.

WRT vaccinations, many companies are working on creating digital passports. Here is one: https://www.ibm.com/products/digital-health-pass

My company is also working on this. We've figured out how to do it, but aren't sure there is an employer market to sell this to. If digital proof of vaccine records become required (to board flights, for instance), there will certainly be demand from individuals, but in our instance we are B2B, not B2C.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 04, 2021, 09:43:12 PM

Pretty sure Cuomo is done this time.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/04/nyregion/cuomo-nursing-home-deaths.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20210304&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=cta&regi_id=88591053&segment_id=52823&user_id=a4394b6a5672354a123af665691a6f2d

Top aides to Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo were alarmed: A report written by state health officials had just landed, and it included a count of how many nursing home residents in New York had died in the pandemic.

The number — more than 9,000 by that point in June — was not public, and the governor’s most senior aides wanted to keep it that way. They rewrote the report to take it out, according to interviews and documents reviewed by The New York Times.

———

Misleading the public about the details of the pandemic is inexcusable. Even if it did not affect the total death numbers, there is no justification to falsify such a significant report.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 04, 2021, 10:03:22 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on March 04, 2021, 01:03:36 PM

A better idea would be some sort of national registry where participation is voluntary and venues could use to verify your status.

Wisconsin has an immunization registry. Sadly, there is no consistency from state to state.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 04, 2021, 10:27:07 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 04, 2021, 09:43:12 PM

Pretty sure Cuomo is done this time.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/04/nyregion/cuomo-nursing-home-deaths.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20210304&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=cta&regi_id=88591053&segment_id=52823&user_id=a4394b6a5672354a123af665691a6f2d

Top aides to Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo were alarmed: A report written by state health officials had just landed, and it included a count of how many nursing home residents in New York had died in the pandemic.

The number — more than 9,000 by that point in June — was not public, and the governor’s most senior aides wanted to keep it that way. They rewrote the report to take it out, according to interviews and documents reviewed by The New York Times.

———

Misleading the public about the details of the pandemic is inexcusable. Even if it did not affect the total death numbers, there is no justification to falsify such a significant report.

He should be done. Just gross all around. Covering up deaths. Allowing liability shields for his donors.

NY state legislators had to go to the UN for crying out loud.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on March 04, 2021, 11:37:10 PM

Cover ups never end well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 05, 2021, 01:18:51 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 04, 2021, 09:09:45 PM

WRT vaccinations, many companies are working on creating digital passports. Here is one: https://www.ibm.com/products/digital-health-pass

My company is also working on this. We've figured out how to do it, but aren't sure there is an employer market to sell this to. If digital proof of vaccine records become required (to board flights, for instance), there will certainly be demand from individuals, but in our instance we are B2B, not B2C.

The problem with "distributing" vaccines is that there's no money in it.  Actually, it's just lost money - because the US government has said that we all get them for free.  Which is also great and necessary - but you're not going to sell many vaccine tracking systems for $0.  This is also why Biden has needed to setup FEMA sites for distributing vaccines.  There's no surprise Walgreens/CVS/Walmart are also scrambling, other than currying favor with the USG, there's no money in this for them.

I don't doubt the product you have is a great idea, and is probably needed.  But at this point there's no market for it.  Vaccines are only hemorrhaging money for companies.  Those employees could be doing other money-making things, or not be employed. 

This is largely why vaccinations stumbled after healthcare workers.  Hospitals were happy to get them for their employees.  After that, it didn't make much sense to keep trying to handle them except for charity.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 05, 2021, 04:29:49 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 05, 2021, 01:18:51 AM

The problem with "distributing" vaccines is that there's no money in it.  Actually, it's just lost money - because the US government has said that we all get them for free.  Which is also great and necessary - but you're not going to sell many vaccine tracking systems for $0.  This is also why Biden has needed to setup FEMA sites for distributing vaccines.  There's no surprise Walgreens/CVS/Walmart are also scrambling, other than currying favor with the USG, there's no money in this for them.

I don't doubt the product you have is a great idea, and is probably needed.  But at this point there's no market for it.  Vaccines are only hemorrhaging money for companies.  Those employees could be doing other money-making things, or not be employed. 

This is largely why vaccinations stumbled after healthcare workers.  Hospitals were happy to get them for their employees.  After that, it didn't make much sense to keep trying to handle them except for charity.

Is this really the problem?  Locally the health care systems have done great. The problem is they simply don’t have enough shots and repeatedly have said that they could ramp it up if they had more to work with. Is this the exception?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 05, 2021, 05:29:02 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 04, 2021, 08:29:49 PM

If you actually want the facts they are here

https://portal.ct.gov/Office-of-the-Governor/News/Press-Releases/2021/03-2021/Governor-Lamont-Announces-Plans-To-Ease-Some-COVID-19-Restrictions-in-Connecticut (https://portal.ct.gov/Office-of-the-Governor/News/Press-Releases/2021/03-2021/Governor-Lamont-Announces-Plans-To-Ease-Some-COVID-19-Restrictions-in-Connecticut)

Just quoting our leader.

That's how this works, right?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 05, 2021, 05:50:30 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 05, 2021, 05:29:02 AM

Just quoting our leader.

That's how this works, right?

That’s fine and maybe I shouldn’t have quoted you directly.  I wasn’t following the news cycle yesterday but saw a couple insinuations that CT has ‘no indoor restrictions’.  And a bunch of flip “what about cynicism” back and forth. 

Good news is 74% of 75+, 59% of 65-75 and 17% of 55-65 now have at least one shot.  We get data twice a week and planned dates for when the next group can make appointments. They are tracking the wastewater across the state for covid and have pretty robust testing.   

I’m in a minority position on the board where my state govt has earned my trust on their pandemic management.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 05, 2021, 07:28:14 AM

Surprise!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/03/05/fever-scanner-flaws-covid/

TLDR: All those temperature checks are so inaccurate it's actually a detriment to public health as the feverish are often told they are fine.

Great great.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 05, 2021, 07:39:31 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 05, 2021, 01:18:51 AM

I don't doubt the product you have is a great idea, and is probably needed.  But at this point there's no market for it.  Vaccines are only hemorrhaging money for companies.  Those employees could be doing other money-making things, or not be employed. 

Companies, including ours, are developing the proof-of-vaccine passport on the speculation that they may be required for people in the future. (Maybe they will, maybe they won't). If so there will obviously be a market for this, but that will probably be a B2C play, we think, unless companies also require the passport in order for workers to come back to their physical spaces.

If that is the case, then there is a B2B play, along with the ability for the company to have a top-down view of the status of their workforce, which is relatively simple to produce. Employers will pay for that capability, but not standalone passports for employees if their physical work location doesn't required them.

There could be exceptions: airlines, any company that needs to send its workers into the physical space of another organization (construction, or software implementation, for example), etc. If so, my hope is that this is a short term need and that we'll have this under control with annual booster shots to the point of obsoleting any need for proof of vaccination.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 05, 2021, 07:41:24 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 05, 2021, 07:39:31 AM

Companies, including ours, are developing the proof-of-vaccine passport on the speculation that they may be required for people in the future. (Maybe they will, maybe they won't). If so there will obviously be a market for this, but that will probably be a B2C play, we think, unless companies also require the passport in order for workers to come back to their physical spaces.

If that is the case, then there is a B2B play, along with the ability for the company to have a top-down view of the status of their workforce, which is relatively simple to produce. Employers will pay for that capability, but not standalone passports for employees if their physical work location doesn't required them.

There could be exceptions: airlines, any company that needs to send its workers into the physical space of another organization (construction, or software implementation, for example), etc. If so, my hope is that this is a short term need and that we'll have this under control with annual booster shots to the point of obsoleting any needs for proof of vaccination.

Sounds like a perfect fit for blockchain technology.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 05, 2021, 08:03:58 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 05, 2021, 07:39:31 AM

Companies, including ours, are developing the proof-of-vaccine passport on the speculation that they may be required for people in the future. (Maybe they will, maybe they won't). If so there will obviously be a market for this, but that will probably be a B2C play, we think, unless companies also require the passport in order for workers to come back to their physical spaces.

If that is the case, then there is a B2B play, along with the ability for the company to have a top-down view of the status of their workforce, which is relatively simple to produce. Employers will pay for that capability, but not standalone passports for employees if their physical work location doesn't required them.

There could be exceptions: airlines, any company that needs to send its workers into the physical space of another organization (construction, or software implementation, for example), etc. If so, my hope is that this is a short term need and that we'll have this under control with annual booster shots to the point of obsoleting any need for proof of vaccination.

Out of curiosity, since there is no national database, how are you going to connect to the various data sources to determine status? A clearing house? Connecting to 50+ data sources?
As chick pointed out, no national DB exists and would have violent push back from certain groups of people.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 05, 2021, 08:12:57 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 05, 2021, 05:50:30 AM

I’m in a minority position on the board where my state govt has earned my trust on their pandemic management.

I'll second this. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 05, 2021, 08:20:21 AM

I think Wisconsin has by and large done very well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 05, 2021, 08:52:18 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on March 05, 2021, 08:03:58 AM

Out of curiosity, since there is no national database, how are you going to connect to the various data sources to determine status? A clearing house? Connecting to 50+ data sources?
As chick pointed out, no national DB exists and would have violent push back from certain groups of people.

While it's not a national database the vast majority of male health systems use Epic's MyChart program. While not a fully comprehensive list would be a good starting Data source

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on March 05, 2021, 09:03:45 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 05, 2021, 08:20:21 AM

I think Wisconsin has by and large done very well.

👍👍

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 05, 2021, 09:07:00 AM

I think all the time and effort to create a national database or a vaccine passport is going to be irrelevant in just a few months.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 05, 2021, 09:08:59 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 05, 2021, 04:29:49 AM

Is this really the problem?  Locally the health care systems have done great. The problem is they simply don’t have enough shots and repeatedly have said that they could ramp it up if they had more to work with. Is this the exception?

That is also the case here in Minnesota. Mayo Clinic has the capacity to dramatically expand vaccine administration in Rochester and surrounding areas, and has been clamoring for more vaccines. The same is true for the healthcare systems in the Twin Cities and Duluth.

There may be gaps in more rural areas, but that represents a relatively small portion of the overall population.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 05, 2021, 09:11:32 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 05, 2021, 09:07:00 AM

I think all the time and effort to create a national database or a vaccine passport is going to be irrelevant in just a few months.

I agree .. although .. I think it will be handy for travel, especially international travel. 

No doubt, there's a short shelf life. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 05, 2021, 09:17:02 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 05, 2021, 09:11:32 AM

I agree .. although .. I think it will be handy for travel, especially international travel. 

That's a good point.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 05, 2021, 09:17:24 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 05, 2021, 09:07:00 AM

I think all the time and effort to create a national database or a vaccine passport is going to be irrelevant in just a few months.

Probably...unless large percentages of people refuse to get the vaccine, in which case we never reach herd immunity. If that happens, I can see the vax-refusers getting excluded from some indoor activities and travel.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 05, 2021, 09:18:41 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 05, 2021, 09:07:00 AM

I think all the time and effort to create a national database or a vaccine passport is going to be irrelevant in just a few months.

Yeah, because Covid is the last pandemic or other crisis we will face. Let's not put an infrastructure in place.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on March 05, 2021, 09:51:14 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 05, 2021, 09:17:24 AM

Probably...unless large percentages of people refuse to get the vaccine, in which case we never reach herd immunity. If that happens, I can see the vax-refusers getting excluded from some indoor activities and travel.

While I'd like to believe this would be the case, I don't think it would be. Once vaccines are sufficiently available for anyone who wants one to get one, I think all bets are off.  I don't see sports stadiums or airlines or music venues or any other private organization barring entry for lack of vaccination. Maybe you would see some of this for international travel based on the policies of the destination country, but I think thats about it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 05, 2021, 09:57:34 AM

Quote from: MUBurrow on March 05, 2021, 09:51:14 AM

While I'd like to believe this would be the case, I don't think it would be. Once vaccines are sufficiently available for anyone who wants one to get one, I think all bets are off.  I don't see sports stadiums or airlines or music venues or any other private organization barring entry for lack of vaccination. Maybe you would see some of this for international travel based on the policies of the destination country, but I think thats about it.

Exactly.  Why would a sporting or concert venue go through the effort?  Anti-vaxxers may catch Covid and some may die.  Well....that's not the venue's fault right?  There's no liability involved.

Covid is going to be around.  It's going to get people sick and people are going to die.  And if it resembles something like a seasonal flu, or even a little bit worse, society is going to say "good enough!" and move on.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 05, 2021, 12:21:07 PM

The Onion has had fun with Texas the last two days with the following headlines:

“Texas Governor Announces State’s Morgues Now Allowed to Operate at 100% Capacity”

"COVID Announces Plan To Move Operations To Texas Full-Time To Escape Burdensome Regulations"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: wadesworld on March 05, 2021, 12:33:43 PM

I saw a highlight of the Texas Tech student manager getting in the game and taking a charge last night (I think?).  The TTU fans were certainly taking advantage their new freedoms.  The student section looked fully packed, and I saw maybe a handful of masks being worn.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 05, 2021, 01:38:54 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on March 05, 2021, 08:03:58 AM

Out of curiosity, since there is no national database, how are you going to connect to the various data sources to determine status? A clearing house? Connecting to 50+ data sources?
As chick pointed out, no national DB exists and would have violent push back from certain groups of people.

The bolded part. Already done.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 05, 2021, 01:40:59 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 05, 2021, 09:07:00 AM

I think all the time and effort to create a national database or a vaccine passport is going to be irrelevant in just a few months.

I hope so.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 05, 2021, 01:50:50 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 05, 2021, 04:29:49 AM

Is this really the problem?  Locally the health care systems have done great. The problem is they simply don’t have enough shots and repeatedly have said that they could ramp it up if they had more to work with. Is this the exception?

The problem I'm talking about is money.  They  government has stepped in to help, but still small providers are doing this at a loss.  Many aren't even willing to do it.  That doesn't mean we don't have enough capacity to get "shots in arms", but it does mean those doing it aren't going to be willing to shell out extra dollars to help provide a database.  Which is where my reply was directed.

I do agree though, that hopefully the need for some vaccine card goes away by the end of 2021 (but that would require a lot off effort around the world).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 05, 2021, 05:31:08 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 05, 2021, 01:38:54 PM

The bolded part. Already done.

Just curious - do you have a sense of how well private healthcare systems have generally connected to their states’ respective vaccine databases?

I ask mainly because when my number comes up, I will be getting my shot directly from my healthcare provider, as opposed to a state- or county-run vaccine clinic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on March 05, 2021, 07:53:19 PM

My health care system, Amita, a Catholic one, is woefully behind on vaccinating its patients, I don’t know if it’s even done any to be honest. They told me and others I know to go to a Walgreens or Mariano’s. Some have done a better job than others , Rush was way out ahead of others, right now it seems North Shore has pretty much ground to a halt with first doses. Others are slowly working through their patients by age pretty much but it’s very slow

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on March 06, 2021, 08:18:16 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on March 03, 2021, 02:47:05 PM

I’ve posted a lot of garbage and bad links in the last 12 months including some stuff from RT🤦‍♂️

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 06, 2021, 02:43:00 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 05, 2021, 05:31:08 PM

Just curious - do you have a sense of how well private healthcare systems have generally connected to their states’ respective vaccine databases?

I ask mainly because when my number comes up, I will be getting my shot directly from my healthcare provider, as opposed to a state- or county-run vaccine clinic.

I don't know the answer to that yet, unfortunately.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on March 06, 2021, 07:54:41 PM

https://www.yahoo.com/news/oregon-scientists-virus-variant-worrying-151505340.html

So is this the Oregon variant?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on March 06, 2021, 10:47:00 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 05, 2021, 05:31:08 PM

Just curious - do you have a sense of how well private healthcare systems have generally connected to their states’ respective vaccine databases?

I ask mainly because when my number comes up, I will be getting my shot directly from my healthcare provider, as opposed to a state- or county-run vaccine clinic.

If your healthcare provider uses Epic software (which the overwhelming majority of them do), it would be easy-peasy.  I switched healthcare organizations last year when I moved, and they were able to pull in all of my medical records from my old providers because they are all on the same system.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 06, 2021, 10:55:52 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on March 06, 2021, 10:47:00 PM

If your healthcare provider uses Epic software (which the overwhelming majority of them do), it would be easy-peasy.  I switched healthcare organizations last year when I moved, and they were able to pull in all of my medical records from my old providers because they are all on the same system.

This is mostly correct (except perhaps for the pervasiveness of Epic, but that's another topic).  Goooooo has previously mentioned Mayo, and I *think* they're at least in the covid-vaccine sharing circle that Epic and Microsoft also participate (if they don't already use Epic), so I think it all should work with his state level system

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/digital-transformation/mayo-clinic-microsoft-epic-and-more-join-forces-to-improve-digital-covid-19-vaccination-records.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 06, 2021, 11:07:38 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 06, 2021, 10:55:52 PM

This is mostly correct (except perhaps for the pervasiveness of Epic, but that's another topic).  Goooooo has previously mentioned Mayo, and I *think* they're at least in the covid-vaccine sharing circle that Epic and Microsoft also participate (if they don't alsready use Epic), so I think it all should wok with his state level system

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/digital-transformation/mayo-clinic-microsoft-epic-and-more-join-forces-to-improve-digital-covid-19-vaccination-records.html

Good to hear. Thanks all for the information.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 07, 2021, 08:58:25 AM

Yale scientists design wearable clip to detect SARS-CoV-2 air exposure
Yale researchers have developed a small silicone clip that can detect exposure to SARS-CoV-2.

SYDNEY GRAY
12:28 AM, MAR 04, 2021

https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2021/03/04/yale-scientists-design-wearable-clip-to-detect-sars-cov-2-air-exposure/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 07, 2021, 12:34:52 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 07, 2021, 08:58:25 AM

Yale scientists design wearable clip to detect SARS-CoV-2 air exposure
Yale researchers have developed a small silicone clip that can detect exposure to SARS-CoV-2.

SYDNEY GRAY
12:28 AM, MAR 04, 2021

https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2021/03/04/yale-scientists-design-wearable-clip-to-detect-sars-cov-2-air-exposure/

That's really cool.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on March 10, 2021, 07:54:00 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1369623714426454018

Experts: You gotta follow the science.

Us: Absolutely, please explain the data and science you’re seeing that says once vaccinated you shouldn’t travel.

Experts: there isn’t any, but do it anyway!!!

This fricking guy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 10, 2021, 08:07:30 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on March 10, 2021, 07:54:00 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1369623714426454018

Experts: You gotta follow the science.

Us: Absolutely, please explain the data and science you’re seeing that says once vaccinated you shouldn’t travel.

Experts: there isn’t any, but do it anyway!!!

This fricking guy.

"Prove a negative"

He's erring on the side of caution, obviously.  It is a terrible question.  You can't just pull studies out of thin air, and there is no definitive data that vaccinated people can't asymptomatically spread the virus.

Once we KNOW that vaccinated people can't spread, then it will be fine to travel as usual if vaccinated.

Use your brain.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on March 10, 2021, 08:13:14 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 10, 2021, 08:07:30 AM

"Prove a negative"

He's erring on the side of caution, obviously.  It is a terrible question.  You can't just pull studies out of thin air, and there is no definitive data that vaccinated people can't asymptomatically spread the virus.

Once we KNOW that vaccinated people can't spread, then it will be fine to travel as usual if vaccinated.

Use your brain.

The vaccines have been getting studied for almost a year now....me thinks we know the answer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 10, 2021, 08:15:40 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on March 10, 2021, 08:13:14 AM

The vaccines have been getting studied for almost a year now....me thinks we know the answer.

What?  The Phase 3 trials didn’t conclude until November.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on March 10, 2021, 08:36:47 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 10, 2021, 08:15:40 AM

What?  The Phase 3 trials didn’t conclude until November.

Sure they were concluded in November but began in July.  Seems like plenty of time to have figured out by now if once vaccinated can an individual asymptotically pass it along.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 10, 2021, 08:38:14 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on March 10, 2021, 08:13:14 AM

The vaccines have been getting studied for almost a year now....me thinks we know the answer.

Oh, okay, then present your evidence.  Unless you can, then don't make that claim.

I want the country opened up and back to normal as much as anyone.  I just want to be smart about it, and not blow it now that we are slow close to having our lives back.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 10, 2021, 08:39:08 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on March 10, 2021, 08:36:47 AM

Sure they were concluded in November but began in July.  Seems like plenty of time to have figured out by now if once vaccinated can an individual asymptotically pass it along.

Lol. I’m sure you know what you are talking about. 🙄🙄🙄

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 10, 2021, 08:46:00 AM

It was an opportunity missed in the trial.  They didn't study whether or not people shedded the virus - just efficacy and safety.  By the way this is global - not a US thing.

This has been discussed on medical twitter anyway.

The best information that is informing the CDC now is Israel from what I have read.  It is giving them confidence to release what they did earlier this week.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on March 10, 2021, 10:46:45 AM

Exactly right, I have a friend who has been following the Israel data closely.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 10, 2021, 10:47:49 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on March 10, 2021, 08:36:47 AM

Sure they were concluded in November but began in July.  Seems like plenty of time to have figured out by now if once vaccinated can an individual asymptotically pass it along.

Troll: This guy isn't following the science!

Hards: There is no science on this yet.

Troll: Who needs science? We should have figured this out!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on March 10, 2021, 10:54:06 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 10, 2021, 08:39:08 AM

Lol. I’m sure you know what you are talking about. 🙄🙄🙄

Haha you’re absolutely right, I have no idea what I’m talking about but in the context of that interview it seems like I know as much as Fauci.  I’m just at my wits end with that guy, obviously he doesn’t grind everyone’s gears the same but for me his opinion carries about as much weight as anyone else.  Except for Don, he says jump and I say how high your majesty?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 10, 2021, 01:00:49 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 10, 2021, 08:07:30 AM

"Prove a negative"

He's erring on the side of caution, obviously.  It is a terrible question.  You can't just pull studies out of thin air, and there is no definitive data that vaccinated people can't asymptomatically spread the virus.

Once we KNOW that vaccinated people can't spread, then it will be fine to travel as usual if vaccinated.

Use your brain.

Yep. It is virtually impossible to prove that something can’t happen, so the most prudent course is to be cautious while data slowly comes out.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 11, 2021, 09:05:59 AM

From the NYT, some good news on COVID-19 variants:

One or more of the variants could create terrible problems — by being highly contagious, by reinfecting people who already had Covid or by causing even more severe symptoms. A British study released yesterday, for instance, found that the B.1.1.7 variant increases the risk of death in unvaccinated people.

Nevertheless, the overall evidence on the variants has been more encouraging so far than many people expected. The vaccines are virtually eliminating hospitalizations and death in people who contract a variant. Reinfection does not seem to be widespread. And even if the variants are more contagious, they have not caused the kind of surges that seemed possible a couple of weeks ago.

In Florida, where B.1.1.7 has spread widely, “there’s no sign of any increase in cases,” Dr. Eric Topol of Scripps Research wrote. In South Africa, where the B.1.351 variant was first detected, cases are nonetheless plunging.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 14, 2021, 09:29:46 AM

Unlike the previous president -- who shuttered the office responsible for pandemic preparedness and ignored the "pandemic playbook" that had been left for his administration -- the current president is borderline obsessed with making sure America isn't devastated by the next pandemic ...

From McClatchey News:

In a White House consumed by the coronavirus pandemic, one of the president’s less visible advisers is driven by the fear that the next outbreak could be even worse.

Dr. Beth Cameron had been preparing for an event of this magnitude for decades. As a senior national security official on biodefense in the Obama administration, she took part in the government’s response to the Ebola crisis, and in reaction to that scare wrote a “pandemic playbook” that she left for the Trump administration in 2017.

But the National Security Council office on pandemic preparedness that she helped to lead was shuttered, and when the worst pandemic in a century struck last year, her playbook was ignored.

Now she is back in the role – rebuilding her old office from scratch, reimagined, and providing Oval Office briefings to a new president who has vowed not only to end the current pandemic but to prevent the next one.

“We have a no-fail mission of monitoring and standing up a response to emerging biological threats,” Cameron, head of the National Security Council Directorate on Global Health Security and Biodefense, told McClatchy. “He is leaning forward on every aspect of our work.”

Within his first days in office, President Joe Biden reestablished Cameron’s team and signed an executive order calling for the creation of a national center for epidemic forecasting and outbreak analytics – a nerve center that would help the government track and project the course of viruses moving through populations.

Cameron’s NSC team is looking outward, coordinating with foreign governments and alliances to prepare for the next emergency that, like COVID-19, may come from overseas. The proposed national center – which has funding in the American Rescue Plan signed into law by Biden – would look inward, improving the country’s data collection, early warning systems and state and local reporting on public health threats.

Together, those two offices mark the beginning of an overhaul to the country’s biodefense infrastructure – an effort that experts say is long overdue.

The proposed national center could become home base for the myriad small offices across the government keeping track of mathematical infectious disease models and, in theory, streamline local health care data.

Scientists inside and outside of government who warned that a disastrous global pandemic was inevitable have been asking for a central office like this for years.

“One major challenge with the COVID-19 pandemic, and with previous biological threats, has been accessing real-time data and integrating data streams across the U.S. government and national healthcare systems,” Cameron said in an email.

“We urgently need a National Center for Epidemic Forecasting and Outbreak Analytics to modernize the U.S. disease warning system in order to scale action to prevent, detect, respond to, and recover,” she said.

Some of the leading experts on infectious diseases say the coronavirus outbreak in the United States could have been far less devastating from the start.

Evidence collected over the past year indicates that the coronavirus known as SARS-CoV-2 showed up a few times on the West Coast in late 2019, but didn’t take off. The first cases identified in the Seattle area in January 2020, scientists say, were largely contained.

But a single biotech conference in Boston led to hundreds of thousands of infections within those critical early weeks, possibly allowing the virus to take hold.

“There’s definitely a scenario with a coordinated federal response where we had caught the East Coast introductions in time, and have what would’ve amounted to a completely different future with COVID-19,” said Dr. Sam Scarpino, director of the Emergent Epidemics Lab at Northeastern University.

“One thing that’s generally true about epidemics, and we’ve seen this play out with COVID, is that you either stop it or you don’t,” he said. “There’s very little room for middle ground.”

The coronavirus pandemic showed that epidemic forecasting – the ability to identify a new virus quickly, map its trajectory, and potentially stop it – is crucial to national security.

Those forecasts are most critical at the very start of a pandemic, when decision-makers – from local mayors to the president – are relying on them to gauge the threat.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on March 14, 2021, 09:45:16 AM

To borrow from and paraphrase St. Buzz, always keep sciencing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 15, 2021, 07:52:32 PM

Italy imposes lockdown measures as cases spike across Europe.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/15/world/italy-covid-lockdown.html

A year after Italy became the first European country to impose a national lockdown to contain the spread of the coronavirus, the nation has fallen eerily quiet once again, with new restrictions imposed on Monday in an effort to stop a third wave of infections that is threatening to wash over Europe and overwhelm its halting mass inoculation program.

As he explained the measures on Friday, Prime Minister Mario Draghi warned that Italy was facing a “new wave of contagion,” driven by more infectious variants of the coronavirus.

Just as before, Italy was not alone.

“We have clear signs: The third wave in Germany has already begun,” Lothar Wieler, head of the Robert Koch Institute for Infectious Diseases, said during a news conference on Friday. Prime Minister Viktor Orban of Hungary predicted that this week would be the most difficult since the start of the pandemic in terms of allocating hospital beds and breathing machines, as well as mobilizing nurses and doctors. Hospitalizations in France are at their highest levels since November, prompting the authorities to consider a third national lockdown.

—————

The fight is not over yet. And this could dramatically impact the US if the current spread leads to vaccine-resistant strains.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 15, 2021, 08:03:04 PM

I’m thankful that we aren’t banking on AZ. Between the early botched trials and the reactionary changes to to safety or efficacy concerns it has been a disaster for that vaccine and Europe too. 

Still have faith in the FDA and another example they seem to be doing their job regardless of the politics of the day.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 15, 2021, 08:10:56 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 15, 2021, 08:03:04 PM

I’m thankful that we aren’t banking on AZ. Between the early botched trials and the reactionary changes to to safety or efficacy concerns it has been a disaster for that vaccine and Europe too. 

Still have faith in the FDA and another example they seem to be doing their job regardless of the politics of the day.

Totally agree. Kudos to FDA for working quickly but thoroughly during a very difficult period.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 15, 2021, 11:39:51 PM

UK variant carries a 55% higher risk of death than the original Covid virus.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/victoriaforster/2021/03/15/uk-coronavirus-variant-significantly-more-deadly-says-new-study/?sh=7ca2e1396a1e

Scientists had suspected that B.1.1.7 might be more deadly, as well as more transmissible following spectacularly high numbers of Covid-19 deaths in the U.K. during the second wave this winter, which saw the U.K’s worst daily death total in January claim over 1,800 lives. But, the new study published in the journal Nature, led by researchers at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine all but confirms that this correlation is genuine.

The study looked at viral genetics data from almost 5,000 people in the U.K. who died from Covid-19, with two-thirds of those being confirmed to have the B.1.1.7 variant. It found that people who were infected with B.1.1.7 had a 55% higher risk of dying within 28 days of being tested positive for Covid-19.


—————

Keep wearing your mask, and get the vaccine as soon as you can.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 16, 2021, 01:58:32 AM

Yikes.  Stay diligent.  Glad ~70% of > 65 have already received at least once vaccine dose.  Hopefully will keep the coming months at a manageable # of hospitalizations (and I hope to not be one...)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 16, 2021, 06:11:43 AM

finally some cooler heads are starting to prevail with regards to the lockdowns-do they really work and/or are they worth the risk to socio-economic, physical and mental health impacts.  compare california to florida, the dakotas to similar size areas.  there is little to no difference in the numbers.  the science is finally putting together some data and it's essentially telling them the risk-reward is not worth the sacrafices.  there are some more studies even questioning the masks efficacy,

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/who-official-urges-world-leaders-to-stop-using-lockdowns-as-primary-virus-control-method/ar-BB19TBUo

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-failed-experiment-of-covid-lockdowns-11599000890


the sad thing is, these results have been known for quite some time, yet there are some states yet today working under very strict lockdown orders.  are they not getting the memo's?  if this is known and the lockdowns are continuing, it really makes me wonder what their true agendas are...well, not wonder, but it's really sad what some of these so called "experts" are doing to real lives and the long term affects

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 16, 2021, 06:22:00 AM

I thought this was a more comprehensive review as trying to lower mobility is just one factor to consider.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/03/how-the-west-lost-covid-19.html (https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/03/how-the-west-lost-covid-19.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 16, 2021, 06:46:13 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 16, 2021, 06:11:43 AM

finally some cooler heads are starting to prevail with regards to the lockdowns-do they really work and/or are they worth the risk to socio-economic, physical and mental health impacts.  compare california to florida, the dakotas to similar size areas.  there is little to no difference in the numbers.  the science is finally putting together some data and it's essentially telling them the risk-reward is not worth the sacrafices.  there are some more studies even questioning the masks efficacy,

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/who-official-urges-world-leaders-to-stop-using-lockdowns-as-primary-virus-control-method/ar-BB19TBUo

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-failed-experiment-of-covid-lockdowns-11599000890


the sad thing is, these results have been known for quite some time, yet there are some states yet today working under very strict lockdown orders.  are they not getting the memo's?  if this is known and the lockdowns are continuing, it really makes me wonder what their true agendas are...well, not wonder, but it's really sad what some of these so called "experts" are doing to real lives and the long term affects

How's the hydroxy lately?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 16, 2021, 08:15:44 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 16, 2021, 06:11:43 AM

finally some cooler heads are starting to prevail with regards to the lockdowns-do they really work and/or are they worth the risk to socio-economic, physical and mental health impacts.  compare california to florida, the dakotas to similar size areas.  there is little to no difference in the numbers.  the science is finally putting together some data and it's essentially telling them the risk-reward is not worth the sacrafices.  there are some more studies even questioning the masks efficacy,

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/who-official-urges-world-leaders-to-stop-using-lockdowns-as-primary-virus-control-method/ar-BB19TBUo

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-failed-experiment-of-covid-lockdowns-11599000890


the sad thing is, these results have been known for quite some time, yet there are some states yet today working under very strict lockdown orders.  are they not getting the memo's?  if this is known and the lockdowns are continuing, it really makes me wonder what their true agendas are...well, not wonder, but it's really sad what some of these so called "experts" are doing to real lives and the long term affects

I was reading something yesterday that said our puritanical, zero-tolerance approach toward this has been problematic.  Not only for the reasons you mention here, but because it has caused people to tune people out and take riskier behavior.

For instance, and they are doing this now, but the news reports showing people at the beach.  But a beach is probably one of the safest places you can be.  People are usually spread out, and there is usually a breeze dissipating any air. 

The better idea would be to teach people how to lessen the harm understanding that people are going to engage in risky behavior. 

They liked it to the abstinence method of sex education in the 1980s, which likely caused more teen pregnancy and more abortions because kids didn't have access to birth control or didn't know how to have the conversation with their parent or another trusted adult.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 16, 2021, 09:03:49 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 16, 2021, 08:15:44 AM

I was reading something yesterday that said our puritanical, zero-tolerance approach toward this has been problematic.  Not only for the reasons you mention here, but because it has caused people to tune people out and take riskier behavior.

For instance, and they are doing this now, but the news reports showing people at the beach.  But a beach is probably one of the safest places you can be.  People are usually spread out, and there is usually a breeze dissipating any air. 

The better idea would be to teach people how to lessen the harm understanding that people are going to engage in risky behavior. 

They liked it to the abstinence method of sex education in the 1980s, which likely caused more teen pregnancy and more abortions because kids didn't have access to birth control or didn't know how to have the conversation with their parent or another trusted adult.

Fluff,
The Onion is reading the same articles as you.  One of today's headline's was "Florida leaving syringes on the beach to increase vaccination rates".

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 16, 2021, 09:54:06 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 16, 2021, 06:11:43 AM

finally some cooler heads are starting to prevail with regards to the lockdowns-do they really work and/or are they worth the risk to socio-economic, physical and mental health impacts.  compare california to florida, the dakotas to similar size areas.  there is little to no difference in the numbers.  the science is finally putting together some data and it's essentially telling them the risk-reward is not worth the sacrafices.  there are some more studies even questioning the masks efficacy,

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/who-official-urges-world-leaders-to-stop-using-lockdowns-as-primary-virus-control-method/ar-BB19TBUo

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-failed-experiment-of-covid-lockdowns-11599000890


the sad thing is, these results have been known for quite some time, yet there are some states yet today working under very strict lockdown orders.  are they not getting the memo's?  if this is known and the lockdowns are continuing, it really makes me wonder what their true agendas are...well, not wonder, but it's really sad what some of these so called "experts" are doing to real lives and the long term affects

My man, I don't know where to start with you.  Lockdowns worked.  Look no further than Southeast Asia.  Look no further than Spain or Italy.  It was only when the lockdown measures are removed that the virus crept up again.

The articles you linked... the first is from October (5 months ago) and is written by Andrew Mark Miller.  Check out his background a second, and then try to take the guy seriously.  He writes some of the most biased articles for the most biased rag in DC.  Furthermore, he quoted a guy from the WHO... and we ALL KNOW how you feel about the WHO based on your posting history... but now they matter?  Examine why you feel this way now.  Furthermore, that gentleman says his comment was taken out of context.  He goes on to explain that lockdowns shouldn't have been the PRIMARY measure for tackling the virus.  He never said that they don't work.

The second article is from September (6 months ago)  and is an opinion piece authored by a big bank guy who idolizes John Galt.  He also was among the deadest wrong about the financial collapse in 2008.

And you see neither of these articles as problematic?  Seriously?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 16, 2021, 09:57:09 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 16, 2021, 09:54:06 AM

My man, I don't know where to start with you.  Lockdowns worked.  Look no further than Southeast Asia.  Look no further than Spain or Italy.  It was only when the lockdown measures are removed that the virus crept up again.

The articles you linked... the first is from October (5 months ago) and is written by Andrew Mark Miller.  Check out his background a second, and then try to take the guy seriously.  He writes some of the most biased articles for the most biased rag in DC.  Furthermore, he quoted a guy from the WHO... and we ALL KNOW how you feel about the WHO based on your posting history... but now they matter?  Examine why you feel this way now.  Furthermore, that gentleman says his comment was taken out of context.  He goes on to explain that lockdowns shouldn't have been the PRIMARY measure for tackling the virus.  He never said that they don't work.

The second article is from September (6 months ago)  and is an opinion piece authored by a big bank guy who idolizes John Galt.  He also was among the deadest wrong about the financial collapse in 2008.

And you see neither of these articles as problematic?  Seriously?

Oh, you and your facts. :P

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 16, 2021, 10:19:33 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 16, 2021, 09:54:06 AM

My man, I don't know where to start with you.  Lockdowns worked.  Look no further than Southeast Asia.  Look no further than Spain or Italy.  It was only when the lockdown measures are removed that the virus crept up again.

The articles you linked... the first is from October (5 months ago) and is written by Andrew Mark Miller.  Check out his background a second, and then try to take the guy seriously.  He writes some of the most biased articles for the most biased rag in DC.  Furthermore, he quoted a guy from the WHO... and we ALL KNOW how you feel about the WHO based on your posting history... but now they matter?  Examine why you feel this way now.  Furthermore, that gentleman says his comment was taken out of context.  He goes on to explain that lockdowns shouldn't have been the PRIMARY measure for tackling the virus.  He never said that they don't work.

The second article is from September (6 months ago)  and is an opinion piece authored by a big bank guy who idolizes John Galt.  He also was among the deadest wrong about the financial collapse in 2008.

And you see neither of these articles as problematic?  Seriously?

The funny thing is that he started with “finally some cooler heads are starting to prevail” as though this is current information.

Maybe five or six month old articles work in dentistry, but they obviously don’t in a fast-moving pandemic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 16, 2021, 10:40:24 AM

there is tons of data and stories from many different authors from many different publications.  the differences between lockdown and non lockdown are not that stark.  meaning, is/was it worth it? 

this one from december 2020

https://www.aier.org/article/lockdowns-do-not-control-the-coronavirus-the-evidence/

newsweek january 14, 2021

"Astudy evaluating COVID-19 responses around the world found that mandatory lockdown orders early in the pandemic may not provide significantly more benefits to slowing the spread of the disease than other voluntary measures, such as social distancing or travel reduction."

https://www.newsweek.com/covid-lockdowns-have-no-clear-benefit-vs-other-voluntary-measures-international-study-shows-1561656

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 16, 2021, 10:49:24 AM

I’m in line at the DMV right now. 2 unmasked mouthbreathers in front of me, a smoker behind me.

Or as rocket would say: nirvana!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 16, 2021, 11:40:03 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 16, 2021, 09:54:06 AM

My man, I don't know where to start with you.  Lockdowns worked.  Look no further than Southeast Asia.  Look no further than Spain or Italy.  It was only when the lockdown measures are removed that the virus crept up again.

Italy is on wave 3 now and Europe is a sh!tshow.  SE Asia, yes.  Europe, not so much.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 16, 2021, 12:32:12 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 16, 2021, 11:40:03 AM

Italy is on wave 3 now and Europe is a sh!tshow.  SE Asia, yes.  Europe, not so much.

Yeah, that is exactly my point.  Spain and Italy locked down, which stopped the spread.  Then they opened back up early, and this is the result.

SEA went hard, and stayed until it was over.  They're doing just fine.  Imagine defending what the USA and Europe are doing.

From the very start of this, I said lock her all down hard for a month and we are in the clear.  A proven method demonstrated by SEA and Aus/NZ.  But we're too big of babies.  We want to cry about 'muh freedums'.  So we get what we got, a sh!t show.  A year of everyone's lives wasted instead of a month. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 16, 2021, 12:38:11 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 16, 2021, 10:40:24 AM

there is tons of data and stories from many different authors from many different publications.  the differences between lockdown and non lockdown are not that stark.  meaning, is/was it worth it? 

this one from december 2020

https://www.aier.org/article/lockdowns-do-not-control-the-coronavirus-the-evidence/

newsweek january 14, 2021

"Astudy evaluating COVID-19 responses around the world found that mandatory lockdown orders early in the pandemic may not provide significantly more benefits to slowing the spread of the disease than other voluntary measures, such as social distancing or travel reduction."

https://www.newsweek.com/covid-lockdowns-have-no-clear-benefit-vs-other-voluntary-measures-international-study-shows-1561656

It's the internet.  You can find a bunch of shills who will say anything, and someone who will publish it.  Who is writing the article, where it is published, and why they are pushing their information is very important to the validity of the article.  Just because someone put something on the internet doesn't mean it is valuable.

First article bases its data from a guy named Ivor Cummins.  Check his twitter for his credentials, and a ton of insanity.

As for the second article, you included the first paragraph, but the last two paragraphs are very important to the article.

"The study was conducted by researchers affiliated with Stanford University, and was co-authored by Jay Bhattacharya, a professor of medicine and economics who has been a vocal opponent of coronavirus lockdowns since March.

Bhattacharya was also among a group of scientists who wrote The Great Barrington Declaration, a controversial statement that encouraged governments to lift lockdown restrictions to achieve herd immunity among young and healthy people, while focusing protections on the elderly."

Res ipsa loquitur

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 16, 2021, 12:42:30 PM

I think part of Europe's problem these days is poor vaccine distribution and vaccine reluctance around the negative reports over AZ.  If I am reading the data correctly, the US has vaccinated three times as many per capita, and the UK four times.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 16, 2021, 12:59:15 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 16, 2021, 12:42:30 PM

I think part of Europe's problem these days is poor vaccine distribution and vaccine reluctance around the negative reports over AZ.  If I am reading the data correctly, the US has vaccinated three times as many per capita, and the UK four times.

You are reading the data correctly, and vaccination rates are definitely an issue in the EU.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 16, 2021, 03:18:34 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 16, 2021, 12:38:11 PM

It's the internet.  You can find a bunch of shills who will say anything, and someone who will publish it.  Who is writing the article, where it is published, and why they are pushing their information is very important to the validity of the article.  Just because someone put something on the internet doesn't mean it is valuable.

Kinda like when guru excitedly posted the link of Witch Doctor Demon Seed talking gibberish at the WH as "proof" that hydroxy was the greatest thing since penicillin. Ah, memories.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 16, 2021, 04:04:52 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 16, 2021, 12:38:11 PM

It's the internet.  You can find a bunch of shills who will say anything, and someone who will publish it.  Who is writing the article, where it is published, and why they are pushing their information is very important to the validity of the article.  Just because someone put something on the internet doesn't mean it is valuable.

First article bases its data from a guy named Ivor Cummins.  Check his twitter for his credentials, and a ton of insanity.

As for the second article, you included the first paragraph, but the last two paragraphs are very important to the article.

"The study was conducted by researchers affiliated with Stanford University, and was co-authored by Jay Bhattacharya, a professor of medicine and economics who has been a vocal opponent of coronavirus lockdowns since March.

Bhattacharya was also among a group of scientists who wrote The Great Barrington Declaration, a controversial statement that encouraged governments to lift lockdown restrictions to achieve herd immunity among young and healthy people, while focusing protections on the elderly."

Res ipsa loquitur

Facts will not sway those that are reality-proofed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on March 16, 2021, 05:24:55 PM

https://www.france24.com/en/france/20210316-france-investigating-new-coronavirus-variant-detected-in-brittany

Brittany variant.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 16, 2021, 05:33:13 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on March 16, 2021, 05:24:55 PM

https://www.france24.com/en/france/20210316-france-investigating-new-coronavirus-variant-detected-in-brittany

Brittany variant.

Unfortunately, not very surprising. The virus is running roughshod over the EU right now. Plenty of opportunities to replicate and mutate.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 17, 2021, 03:56:28 AM

i think we need to scrutinize some of these so called "guru's" and/or "experts" a little more.  just because they've been around for so long doesn't necessarily equate to being right.  as a matter to the contraire,  my fear is they develop agendas or fall behind the research.  one interesting matchup had the late dr kary mullis discuss his concerns about dr anthony fauci BEFORE the pandemic.  dr kary mullis received a nobel prize in chemistry for the development of the pcr test

https://roundtablereport.com/?p=6582

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on March 17, 2021, 05:31:30 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 17, 2021, 03:56:28 AM

i think we need to scrutinize some of these so called "guru's" and/or "experts" a little more.  just because they've been around for so long doesn't necessarily equate to being right.  as a matter to the contraire,  my fear is they develop agendas or fall behind the research.  one interesting matchup had the late dr kary mullis discuss his concerns about dr anthony fauci BEFORE the pandemic.  dr kary mullis received a nobel prize in chemistry for the development of the pcr test

https://roundtablereport.com/?p=6582

Anytime your news source has not been updated in 3 months (literally the site has not been updated in months, and all the articles written by the same guy), plus use the person referenced believes there is no connection between HIV and AIDs ya might be on a bit of thin ice.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 17, 2021, 07:50:51 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 17, 2021, 03:56:28 AM

i think we need to scrutinize some of these so called "guru's" and/or "experts" a little more.  just because they've been around for so long doesn't necessarily equate to being right.  as a matter to the contraire,  my fear is they develop agendas or fall behind the research.  one interesting matchup had the late dr kary mullis discuss his concerns about dr anthony fauci BEFORE the pandemic.  dr kary mullis received a nobel prize in chemistry for the development of the pcr test

https://roundtablereport.com/?p=6582

Yes.  The experts are the ones with agendas.  ::)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 17, 2021, 08:07:13 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 17, 2021, 03:56:28 AM

i think we need to scrutinize some of these so called "guru's" and/or "experts" a little more.  just because they've been around for so long doesn't necessarily equate to being right.  as a matter to the contraire,  my fear is they develop agendas or fall behind the research.  one interesting matchup had the late dr kary mullis discuss his concerns about dr anthony fauci BEFORE the pandemic.  dr kary mullis received a nobel prize in chemistry for the development of the pcr test

https://roundtablereport.com/?p=6582

"It was Fauci, Your Honor, he's the one that did it!"

Fauci has becomes the right's Emmanual Goldstein, someone they can focus all the anger and blame on to distract from the disaster the was Drumpf's months and months failure of a response to COVID. What simpletons.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 17, 2021, 08:12:06 AM

I’m just glad the anti-govt folks are back to criticizing the govt instead of setting policy in the middle of the pandemic. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 17, 2021, 12:06:25 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 17, 2021, 08:12:06 AM

I’m just glad the anti-govt folks are back to criticizing the govt instead of setting policy in the middle of the pandemic.

+1. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 17, 2021, 12:37:34 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 17, 2021, 08:07:13 AM

"It was Fauci, Your Honor, he's the one that did it!"

Fauci has becomes the right's Emmanual Goldstein, someone they can focus all the anger and blame on to distract from the disaster the was Drumpf's months and months failure of a response to COVID. What simpletons.

I think you're guilty of selective memory, TS.

Clearly, you don't remember that it was Fauci who told the Mad King to encourage his terrorists to "LIBERATE" a bunch of states that hadn't met the Mad King's own guidelines, it was Fauci who told him to mock those who wear masks, it was Fauci who told him to hold numerous deadly super-spreader events (RIP Herman Cain).

Damn that Fauci!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 17, 2021, 07:32:48 PM

Quote from: reinko on March 17, 2021, 05:31:30 AM

Anytime your news source has not been updated in 3 months (literally the site has not been updated in months, and all the articles written by the same guy), plus use the person referenced believes there is no connection between HIV and AIDs ya might be on a bit of thin ice.

  tell me what "your news source" you are referring to?  i have multiple, but that's ok, most of the "other" news sources are keeping the unwashed right where they want them.  hopefully many of us will be able to look back on this as a learning experience.  those who have not learned, well, God help them and us

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 17, 2021, 07:34:46 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 17, 2021, 07:32:48 PM

  tell me what "your news source" you are referring to?  i have multiple, but that's ok, most of the "other" news sources are keeping the unwashed right where they want them.  hopefully many of us will be able to look back on this as a learning experience.  those who have not learned, well, God help them and us

omg

(hint: he spelled it out in his post, and replied to a post of yours that had a link)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 17, 2021, 07:36:55 PM

Cases have risen by more than 10% over the last week in 14 states. Not a good trend, especially from the perspective of the development of new variants. Mask up and get vaccinated when you can.

https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-vaccine-updates-03-17-21/h_21d7c6af222cd1621a4262c3bd0278ac

Covid-19 cases are rising by more than 10% in 14 states this week compared to last week, with half of those states rising by more than 20%.

While nationally the number of new cases has continued to decline – though at a much slower rate over the past three weeks compared to late January and February – the trend is not down for all states.

One month ago, on Feb. 17, there were only 3 states showing increases of 10% or more (North Dakota, South Dakota, and Nebraska).

Michigan cases are increasing the fastest, at more than 50% this week compared to last, with Delaware (39%), Montana (34%), Alabama (31%) and West Virginia (29%) in the Top 5.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: #UnleashSean on March 18, 2021, 04:36:35 AM

Is it just me or trusting 2 of the top people during the aids epidemic to run the show was a bad idea?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on March 18, 2021, 07:55:28 AM

Other than discouraging mask use (let the record show that it was Fauci who announced initially that masks were of no value), having Fauci and Birx as the face of covid was the greatest error Trump made in handling the pandemic, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 18, 2021, 07:57:29 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 18, 2021, 07:55:28 AM

Other than discouraging mask use (let the record show that it was Fauci who announced initially that masks were of no value), having Fauci and Birx as the face of covid was the greatest error Trump made in handling the pandemic, hey?

Yes we know at the very beginning he discouraged it.  Once the evidence suggested it would be valuable, he changed his tune.  Like in April of last year if memory recalls.

It's not Fauci's fault that MAGA morons weren't smart enough to heed his advice.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on March 18, 2021, 08:11:55 AM

Fauci and Birx don't make the top 20 of errors made by the previous administration in regards to COVID. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 18, 2021, 09:31:11 AM

12 cases soon to be zero, en na?
Pack the pews for Easter 2020!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 18, 2021, 11:04:39 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on March 18, 2021, 09:31:11 AM

12 cases soon to be zero, en na?
Pack the pews for Easter 2020!

2 weeks to flatten the curve.

As others have said, lots gotten wrong a year ago.   But keep being obtuse.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 18, 2021, 08:16:04 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 18, 2021, 07:55:28 AM

Other than discouraging mask use (let the record show that it was Fauci who announced initially that masks were of no value), having Fauci and Birx as the face of covid was the greatest error Trump made in handling the pandemic, hey?

Ewe ar funnie

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on March 18, 2021, 10:03:10 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 18, 2021, 11:04:39 AM

2 weeks to flatten the curve.

As others have said, lots gotten wrong a year ago.   But keep being obtuse.

I’m being obtuse, yet people keeping saying Fauci can’t be trusted because he said (rightfully as PPEs were in short supply) that the general public didn’t need masks at one point in time. As conditions changed, so did his opinion.
Trump, not so much.
And we are at last summer second wave levels and idiots think we are home free.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on March 18, 2021, 10:18:17 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 18, 2021, 07:55:28 AM

Other than discouraging mask use (let the record show that it was Fauci who announced initially that masks were of no value), having Fauci and Birx as the face of covid was the greatest error Trump made in handling the pandemic, hey?

Let's be clear here, regarding mask use, Fauci et al., followed the WH's orders. The NIH had the data showing the benefits of mask use. It was taken to Trump/Pence. Fauci/Birx were in favor of promoting mask use. Trump/Pence refused to allow it to be published/promoted.

Source: The people at the NIH that did the original studies and were told to stand down, and denied the right to publish their data, until significantly later.

There were two phases to the resistance agains public mask use. The first was a panel decision to discourage public mask use due to massive shortages for healthcare workers. That was needed to protect front-line workers. Also, at that phase there was a general belief, based on early data, that spread via surfaces was much more pronounced, in that case mask use can exacerbate spread due to constant touching of the mouth/face. It was later determined that wasn't a source of spread, and the primary spread was droplets...which general masks can mitigate.

The second phase was a deliberate block of the science from the WH (see above).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 19, 2021, 05:28:56 PM

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/19/politics/mar-a-lago-closed-covid-outbreak/index.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 19, 2021, 07:12:01 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 19, 2021, 05:28:56 PM

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/19/politics/mar-a-lago-closed-covid-outbreak/index.html

Closed by 'just the flu'?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 19, 2021, 10:41:10 PM

Quote from: tower912 on March 18, 2021, 08:11:55 AM

Fauci and Birx don't make the top 20 of errors made by the previous administration in regards to COVID.

  you can take the trump goggles off now tower and worry more about uncle joe and heels up's blowing past the previous admin's "issues" faster than you can say "come on man"!  i'm more worried about the super spreaders and undocumented dems being dispersed throughout for starters

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 20, 2021, 07:00:30 AM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 19, 2021, 10:41:10 PM

  you can take the trump goggles off now tower and worry more about uncle joe and heels up's blowing past the previous admin's "issues" faster than you can say "come on man"!  i'm more worried about the super spreaders and undocumented dems being dispersed throughout for starters

White people who spread disease are exercising their freedoms.   Brown people who spread disease are scary.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on March 20, 2021, 08:17:14 AM

Thanks, Rudy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 20, 2021, 10:09:19 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 20, 2021, 07:00:30 AM

White people who spread disease are exercising their freedoms.   Brown people who spread disease are scary.

  you're being purposefully contrarian fluff-it's the untested illegal, undocumented, human traffickers, cartels, terrorists, child sex traffickers, carrying covid into the country.  i don't care what color they are.  if i were to fly back into MY own country, i have to show them who i am and test negative for covid.  that sounds like discrimination to me.  at a time when we are trying to get this virus under control within our own boundaries, your peeps are letting more diseased in so doc fowski can go back on tv and tell us to add another mask to our faces

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 20, 2021, 12:51:10 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 20, 2021, 10:09:19 AM

  you're being purposefully contrarian fluff-it's the untested illegal, undocumented, human traffickers, cartels, terrorists, child sex traffickers, carrying covid into the country.  i don't care what color they are.  if i were to fly back into MY own country, i have to show them who i am and test negative for covid.  that sounds like discrimination to me.  at a time when we are trying to get this virus under control within our own boundaries, your peeps are letting more diseased in so doc fowski can go back on tv and tell us to add another mask to our faces

lmao

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on March 20, 2021, 12:54:46 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 20, 2021, 10:09:19 AM

  you're being purposefully contrarian fluff-it's the untested illegal, undocumented, human traffickers, cartels, terrorists, child sex traffickers, carrying covid into the country.  i don't care what color they are.  if i were to fly back into MY own country, i have to show them who i am and test negative for covid.  that sounds like discrimination to me.  at a time when we are trying to get this virus under control within our own boundaries, your peeps are letting more diseased in so doc fowski can go back on tv and tell us to add another mask to our faces

Someone start posting these as Google reviews.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 20, 2021, 01:03:22 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 20, 2021, 10:09:19 AM

  you're being purposefully contrarian fluff-it's the untested illegal, undocumented, human traffickers, cartels, terrorists, child sex traffickers, carrying covid into the country.  i don't care what color they are.  if i were to fly back into MY own country, i have to show them who i am and test negative for covid.  that sounds like discrimination to me.  at a time when we are trying to get this virus under control within our own boundaries, your peeps are letting more diseased in so doc fowski can go back on tv and tell us to add another mask to our faces

The only 'undocumented' people being newly allowed in right now are unaccompanied minors...and that requires Covid testing and quarantining.

But don't let facts get in the way of a good political rant.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 20, 2021, 02:19:37 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 20, 2021, 01:03:22 PM

The only 'undocumented' people being newly allowed in right now are unaccompanied minors...and that requires Covid testing and quarantining.

But don't let facts get in the way of a good political rant.

He’s too far gone to have a rational discussion at this point. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 20, 2021, 03:45:38 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 20, 2021, 10:09:19 AM

  you're being purposefully contrarian fluff-it's the untested illegal, undocumented, human traffickers, cartels, terrorists, child sex traffickers, carrying covid into the country.  i don't care what color they are.  if i were to fly back into MY own country, i have to show them who i am and test negative for covid.  that sounds like discrimination to me.  at a time when we are trying to get this virus under control within our own boundaries, your peeps are letting more diseased in so doc fowski can go back on tv and tell us to add another mask to our faces

I'm interested in your source for the type of people in the caravan. Can you point to it?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Sir Lawrence on March 20, 2021, 04:11:54 PM

An interesting article based on su Covid’s Partisan Errors

Republicans tend to underestimate Covid risks — and Democrats tend to exaggerate them. Survey of 35,000

Covid’s Partisan Errors

Republicans tend to underestimate Covid risks — and Democrats tend to exaggerate them.


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/18/briefing/atlanta-shootings-kamala-harris-tax-deadline-2021.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 20, 2021, 09:10:05 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 20, 2021, 10:09:19 AM

  you're being purposefully contrarian fluff-it's the untested illegal, undocumented, human traffickers, cartels, terrorists, child sex traffickers, carrying covid into the country.  i don't care what color they are.  if i were to fly back into MY own country, i have to show them who i am and test negative for covid.  that sounds like discrimination to me.  at a time when we are trying to get this virus under control within our own boundaries, your peeps are letting more diseased in so doc fowski can go back on tv and tell us to add another mask to our faces

What a sucker.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 20, 2021, 10:12:12 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 20, 2021, 10:09:19 AM

  you're being purposefully contrarian fluff-it's the untested illegal, undocumented, human traffickers, cartels, terrorists, child sex traffickers, carrying covid into the country.  i don't care what color they are.  if i were to fly back into MY own country, i have to show them who i am and test negative for covid.  that sounds like discrimination to me.  at a time when we are trying to get this virus under control within our own boundaries, your peeps are letting more diseased in so doc fowski can go back on tv and tell us to add another mask to our faces

So you don't care about US citizens spreading covid?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on March 21, 2021, 07:44:15 AM

Yep, unmasked Ohioans probably led.to VCU having to forfeit an NCAA tourney game.   But at least they are 'murcan, ai'na?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 21, 2021, 11:22:16 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 20, 2021, 10:12:12 PM

So you don't care about US citizens spreading covid?

dumb question...as it seems we are controlling our spread, noted by decreasing cases, deaths and vaccinations, yet we are allowing untested illegals in then transporting them throughout the country.  they could very possibly be carrying the brazilian variant or any other form of the virus in. not to mention those blowing through the unfinished wall sections.  if they don't crash their mini-vans loaded to the hilt, who knows where they are spreading the virus.  weird how this admin won't let press within a moon lens shot of the border situation though.  i wonder what they are hiding? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on March 21, 2021, 12:23:27 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 21, 2021, 11:22:16 AM

dumb question...as it seems we are controlling our spread, noted by decreasing cases, deaths and vaccinations, yet we are allowing untested illegals in then transporting them throughout the country.  they could very possibly be carrying the brazilian variant or any other form of the virus in. not to mention those blowing through the unfinished wall sections.  if they don't crash their mini-vans loaded to the hilt, who knows where they are spreading the virus.  weird how this admin won't let press within a moon lens shot of the border situation though.  i wonder what they are hiding?

You didn't answer the question.

Do YOU care about US citizens spreading the virus?

If you do, your posts over the last year have not demonstrated that stance as you've been against evidence-based control measures.

Therefore, I conclude that your commentary about the border has nothing to do with the virus itself.

Carry on.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on March 21, 2021, 03:13:00 PM

https://www.borderreport.com/hot-topics/immigration/south-texas-charity-taking-in-hundreds-of-released-migrants-daily-testing-them-for-coronavirus/

Catholic Charities is testing migrants and quarantining any positives. Huge operation run, of course, by a nun. Because they get things done...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 21, 2021, 06:50:19 PM

Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 21, 2021, 11:22:16 AM

dumb question...as it seems we are controlling our spread, noted by decreasing cases, deaths and vaccinations, yet we are allowing untested illegals in then transporting them throughout the country.  they could very possibly be carrying the brazilian variant or any other form of the virus in. not to mention those blowing through the unfinished wall sections.  if they don't crash their mini-vans loaded to the hilt, who knows where they are spreading the virus.  weird how this admin won't let press within a moon lens shot of the border situation though.  i wonder what they are hiding?

because antifa!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 28, 2021, 10:23:14 PM

Deborah Birx, the previous administration's coronavirus response coordinator, said most COVID-19 deaths in America could have been prevented had the administration had acted earlier and more decisively.

“I look at it this way: The first time, we have an excuse. There were about 100,000 deaths that came from that original surge,” Birx said. “All of the rest of them, in my mind, could have been mitigated or decreased substantially.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 28, 2021, 11:13:09 PM

Quote from: MU82 on March 28, 2021, 10:23:14 PM

Deborah Birx, the previous administration's coronavirus response coordinator, said most COVID-19 deaths in America could have been prevented had the administration had acted earlier and more decisively.

“I look at it this way: The first time, we have an excuse. There were about 100,000 deaths that came from that original surge,” Birx said. “All of the rest of them, in my mind, could have been mitigated or decreased substantially.”

Pretty scathing comments from the administration’s own Covid response coordinator.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on March 29, 2021, 12:09:17 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 18, 2021, 07:55:28 AM

Other than discouraging mask use (let the record show that it was Fauci who announced initially that masks were of no value), having Fauci and Birx as the face of covid was the greatest error Trump made in handling the pandemic, hey?

That should be
Other than completely checking out on any decisions at all on COVID efforts between the election and the inauguration.

Turning social distancing and lockdowns into a political battleground.

Perversely refusing to acknowledge the dead and sick, offering virtually no words of comfort or sympathy.

Lying about his own bout of coronavirus.

Supporting  those idiots  who protested maskless against restrictions, even to the point of violence, even to the point of an attempted kidnap/murder of the governor of Michigan.

Holding rallies and events with no masking and no social distancing that were superspreader events.

Declining to use the Defense Production Act until too far into the pandemic and even then on a limited basis.

Not having a national plan on testing and mitigation.

et cetera et cetera.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 29, 2021, 08:02:51 AM

Quote from: MU82 on March 28, 2021, 10:23:14 PM

Deborah Birx, the previous administration's coronavirus response coordinator, said most COVID-19 deaths in America could have been prevented had the administration had acted earlier and more decisively.

“I look at it this way: The first time, we have an excuse. There were about 100,000 deaths that came from that original surge,” Birx said. “All of the rest of them, in my mind, could have been mitigated or decreased substantially.”

She unnatural carnal knowledgeing enabled it!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 29, 2021, 09:47:55 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 29, 2021, 08:02:51 AM

She unnatural carnal knowledgeing enabled it!

If you take a job like that, you can’t be afraid to speak truth to power. She wasn’t up to that task.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 29, 2021, 10:24:25 AM

Quote from: Jockey on March 29, 2021, 09:47:55 AM

If you take a job like that, you can’t be afraid to speak truth to power. She wasn’t up to that task.

You are correct that she wasn’t up to the task. But to be fair, not everybody knows whether they will be up to the challenge when they take on a new role.

So yes - she was part of the problem, but I still give her credit for speaking out now, even though it puts the entire administration (including herself) in the crosshairs of the criticism.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on March 29, 2021, 10:51:49 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 29, 2021, 10:24:25 AM

You are correct that she wasn’t up to the task. But to be fair, not everybody knows whether they will be up to the challenge when they take on a new role.

So yes - she was part of the problem, but I still give her credit for speaking out now, even though it puts the entire administration (including herself) in the crosshairs of the criticism.

It's not an easy thing to do. You are putting your career on the line. But life/death situations should override that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 29, 2021, 11:46:18 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 29, 2021, 10:24:25 AM

So yes - she was part of the problem, but I still give her credit for speaking out now, even though it puts the entire administration (including herself) in the crosshairs of the criticism.

I disagree to the extent that it appears to me she is attempting to shift blame to others. She was huge part of the problem, from praising Trump for his scientific literacy and attention to detail to sitting there and nodding when Trump said the government would look into using disinfectants.

If the administration filed to prevent hundreds of thousands of deaths, she needs to acknowledge her part in that. Instead she is making excuses.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 29, 2021, 01:11:14 PM

Quote from: Jockey on March 29, 2021, 10:51:49 AM

It's not an easy thing to do. You are putting your career on the line. But life/death situations should override that.

Oh, I absolutely agree that they should.

Just pointing out that people don't always do what they should do, when they should do it. And even though Birx should have done more earlier, it doesn't take away the importance of saying this now...since the alternative would be to continue participating in the coverup.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on March 29, 2021, 02:40:39 PM

Totally agree about Birx. While Fauci and others spoke the truth much earlier, Birx was still enabling a president who lied daily about the pandemic and made life worse for millions of Americans.

Finally, even Birx reached her tipping point and began to speak the truth, and even as she did so she carefully danced around her boss' horrific response to the coronavirus.

Her reward for those months and months of loyalty? He publicly ripped her, calling her "pathetic."

Still better that she finally realized the truth and spoke to it.

Meanwhile ...

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/29/us/covid-cases-vaccines-eligible.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20210329&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=54446&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

President Biden on Monday called on governors and mayors to maintain or reinstate mask-wearing orders, saying that because of “reckless behavior,” the coronavirus was again spreading fast, threatening the progress the nation has made so far against the pandemic.

“People are letting up on precautions, which is a very bad thing,” he said. “We are giving up hard-fought, hard-won gains.”

Mr. Biden asked the nation to hold on longer, saying that he had directed his coronavirus team to ensure that there was a vaccination site within five miles of 90 percent of Americans within three weeks.

On Monday, New York said all adults would be eligible starting April 6, joining at least 37 other states that will make all adult residents eligible for vaccinations by mid-April.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 29, 2021, 03:12:34 PM

Quote from: MU82 on March 29, 2021, 02:40:39 PM

Meanwhile ...

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/29/us/covid-cases-vaccines-eligible.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20210329&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=54446&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

President Biden on Monday called on governors and mayors to maintain or reinstate mask-wearing orders, saying that because of “reckless behavior,” the coronavirus was again spreading fast, threatening the progress the nation has made so far against the pandemic.

“People are letting up on precautions, which is a very bad thing,” he said. “We are giving up hard-fought, hard-won gains.”

Mr. Biden asked the nation to hold on longer, saying that he had directed his coronavirus team to ensure that there was a vaccination site within five miles of 90 percent of Americans within three weeks.

On Monday, New York said all adults would be eligible starting April 6, joining at least 37 other states that will make all adult residents eligible for vaccinations by mid-April.

Yep. And it's really troubling that the daily new case totals are going up again (seven-day average of 63,000/day, up from 54,000/day two weeks ago), despite all the vaccinations.

For those who think this shouldn't be a concern because the highest risk people have already had Covid or been vaccinated...we can't just worry about people getting sick and dying. We also have to reduce spread to reduce the likelihood of deadlier new mutations that might ultimately be resistant to the vaccines we have already received. If that happens, many of the gains we've made could be wiped out overnight.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on March 29, 2021, 04:01:06 PM

Indeed.    Too many are getting ahead of themselves.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 30, 2021, 09:46:45 AM

Quote from: MU82 on March 29, 2021, 02:40:39 PM

Totally agree about Birx. While Fauci and others spoke the truth much earlier, Birx was still enabling a president who lied daily about the pandemic and made life worse for millions of Americans.

(https://images2.imgbox.com/13/3b/8N7riffq_o.png) (https://imgbox.com/8N7riffq)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 01, 2021, 10:15:24 AM

The Pandemic’s Wrongest Man
In a crowded field of wrongness, one person stands out: Alex Berenson.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/04/pandemics-wrongest-man/618475/

"The pandemic has made fools of many forecasters. Just about all of the predictions whiffed. Anthony Fauci was wrong about masks. California was wrong about the outdoors. New York was wrong about the subways. I was wrong about the necessary cost of pandemic relief. And the Trump White House was wrong about almost everything else.

In this crowded field of wrongness, one voice stands out. The voice of Alex Berenson: the former New York Times reporter, Yale-educated novelist, avid tweeter, online essayist, and all-around pandemic gadfly. Berenson has been serving up COVID-19 hot takes for the past year, blithely predicting that the United States would not reach 500,000 deaths (we’ve surpassed 550,000) and arguing that cloth and surgical masks can’t protect against the coronavirus (yes, they can).

Berenson has a big megaphone. He has more than 200,000 followers on Twitter and millions of viewers for his frequent appearances on Fox News’ most-watched shows. On Laura Ingraham’s show, he downplayed the vaccines, suggesting that Israel’s experience proved they were considerably less effective than initially claimed. On Tucker Carlson Tonight, he predicted that the vaccines would cause an uptick in cases of COVID-related illness and death in the U.S.

The vaccines have inspired his most troubling comments. For the past few weeks on Twitter, Berenson has mischaracterized just about every detail regarding the vaccines to make the dubious case that most people would be better off avoiding them. As his conspiratorial nonsense accelerates toward the pandemic’s finish line, he has proved himself the Secretariat of being wrong:"

More at link. Idiots like this, given a friendly megaphone at Faux News, are why up to 50% of Republicans say they won't get the vaccine.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 01, 2021, 06:04:56 PM

Variants surging.   Get vaccinated as quickly as you can.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 01, 2021, 06:55:55 PM

Quote from: tower912 on April 01, 2021, 06:04:56 PM

Variants surging.   Get vaccinated as quickly as you can.

Yep. And keep wearing a mask at least until you’re fully vaccinated.

Doesn’t look good over there in Michigan, tower.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 01, 2021, 07:48:31 PM

Mind boggling, really.

https://www.mlive.com/coronavirus/data/

Go through the charts and it is the worst in the thumb area and Northern Michigan.   

Schools are driving the outbreaks.    Many school districts threatening to go virtual after spring break.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Marquette Fan on April 01, 2021, 08:04:51 PM

Quote from: tower912 on April 01, 2021, 06:04:56 PM

Variants surging.   Get vaccinated as quickly as you can.

I'm really worried about what's going to happen after Spring Break in Wisconsin.  So many people took Spring Break trips that I figure many will bring back some variants with them.  2.5 more weeks until I get my 2nd shot.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Marquette Fan on April 01, 2021, 08:15:59 PM

Quote from: tower912 on April 01, 2021, 07:48:31 PM

Mind boggling, really.

https://www.mlive.com/coronavirus/data/

Go through the charts and it is the worst in the thumb area and Northern Michigan.   

Schools are driving the outbreaks.    Many school districts threatening to go virtual after spring break.

Scary stuff.

Interesting about schools driving the outbreaks as all I keep hearing by me in Wisconsin is it's not spreading at all through the schools.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 01, 2021, 08:25:55 PM

The nursing home populations and seniors are nearly all vaccinated.     This surge is being driven by the young and unvaccinated.   Including school age children.

5th and 7th grade classes at my son's school are now virtual due to exposures.   Email to the parents recommending quarantining for a week after spring break if the family goes anywhere where it is surging or stays and does not follow safety protocols.

4th wave.   It isn't over.   Get vaccinated.   Wear your mask.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Marquette Fan on April 01, 2021, 08:32:02 PM

Quote from: tower912 on April 01, 2021, 08:25:55 PM

The nursing home populations and.seniors are nearly all vaccinated.     This surge is being driven by the young and unvaccinated.   Including school age children.

5th and 7th grade classes at my son's school are now virtual due to exposures.   Email to the parents recommending quarantining for a week after spring break if the family goes anywhere where it is surging or stays and does not follow safety protocols.

4th wave.   It isn't over.   Get vaccinated.   Wear your mask.

Oh I believe you - I've been doubting when I hear the administration and other people saying its not spreading in our schools.  I wish we'd go all virtual the week after spring break but I know that won't happen.

So many people I know are choosing not to get vaccinated and now with no mask mandate in WI I'm more worried too.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 01, 2021, 09:20:31 PM

Tons of cars from Indiana and Michigan heading south last weekend.

Our school is requiring virtual for 10 days or a negative test after 6 days for anyone going on spring break.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 01, 2021, 11:01:07 PM

Another fictitious, Trump/Fox/Right Wing talking point was <shocker> wrong:

Suicides Fell by 2,600 in 2020, Despite Donald Trump's Lockdown Warnings
https://www.newsweek.com/suicides-fell-2600-2020-despite-donald-trumps-lockdown-warnings-1580585

"Suicide rates dropped in 2020 despite former President Donald Trump warning that COVID-19 lockdowns would lead to an increasing number of people taking their own lives.

Total U.S. suicides for 2020 numbered 44,834, over 2,600 fewer deaths than 2019's total of 47,511, according to National Center for Health Statistics figures cited in an article published Wednesday by the Journal of the American Medical Association. A smaller decrease of around 800 happened between 2018 and 2019. "

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 02, 2021, 05:16:54 AM

Quote from: tower912 on April 01, 2021, 06:04:56 PM

Variants surging.   Get vaccinated as quickly as you can.

I tried; now it’s too late. Just tested positive. This is not fun.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 02, 2021, 06:17:30 AM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 02, 2021, 05:16:54 AM

I tried; now it’s too late. Just tested positive. This is not fun.

That really sucks, man, after all this time being careful, and your scare last year with your apartment building.

Hope you're doing okay.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on April 02, 2021, 06:59:02 AM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 02, 2021, 05:16:54 AM

I tried; now it’s too late. Just tested positive. This is not fun.

Awful. Be well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on April 02, 2021, 07:01:58 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on April 01, 2021, 09:20:31 PM

Tons of cars from Indiana and Michigan heading south last weekend.

Our school is requiring virtual for 10 days or a negative test after 6 days for anyone going on spring break.

Way too many people in Florida up to school starting back to 5 days on Tuesday.

I hope the districts expected this and will go virtual for a week before the full reopening.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on April 02, 2021, 07:41:02 AM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 02, 2021, 05:16:54 AM

I tried; now it’s too late. Just tested positive. This is not fun.

Been there.   Good luck.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 02, 2021, 11:29:25 AM

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 02, 2021, 05:16:54 AM

I tried; now it’s too late. Just tested positive. This is not fun.

Get well, JayBee.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on April 04, 2021, 08:01:49 AM

Sending you wishes for a quick recovery Jaycee.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on April 05, 2021, 01:29:38 PM

https://mobile.twitter.com/charlescwcooke/status/1379126440629780480

Yikes.  I’ve always held CBS in high regard and felt they did a good job staying out of the partisan trends most news channels have gone (whether right or left). 

The DeSantis story they played on 60 minutes is unfortunately the latest evidence showing that our media is completely broken.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 05, 2021, 01:39:58 PM

Yeah...that 60 Minutes story pointed out dozens of problems with Florida's vaccine distribution, but that foray into the Publix angle was really unnecessary and undermined the story completely.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Marquette Fan on April 05, 2021, 08:15:08 PM

Texas Rangers host a sellout crowd for Opening Day with no Covid-19 restrictions.  According to the article I read it was also the first time attendance restrictions were not in effect for any major sporting event in the United States:

https://www.fox4news.com/sports/texas-rangers-host-near-sellout-crowd-for-2021-home-opener-with-no-covid-19-attendance-restrictions

Definitely not something I'd feel comfortable attending but it obviously wasn't a concern for a lot of people.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Chili on April 05, 2021, 09:28:07 PM

Quote from: Marquette Fan on April 05, 2021, 08:15:08 PM

Texas Rangers host a sellout crowd for Opening Day with no Covid-19 restrictions.  According to the article I read it was also the first time attendance restrictions were not in effect for any major sporting event in the United States:

https://www.fox4news.com/sports/texas-rangers-host-near-sellout-crowd-for-2021-home-opener-with-no-covid-19-attendance-restrictions

Definitely not something I'd feel comfortable attending but it obviously wasn't a concern for a lot of people.

Considering White Evangelicals are the largest group resisting vaccinations this isn't surprising since many of them view this as something their god will protect them from.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on April 07, 2021, 09:21:36 AM

Quote from: Chili on April 05, 2021, 09:28:07 PM

Considering White Evangelicals are the largest group resisting vaccinations this isn't surprising since many of them view this as something their god will protect them from.

I'm always confused by this type of logic. Have Evangelicals actually read the Bible? Book of Job for instance?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 07, 2021, 05:40:05 PM

Those following the science already understand that COVID has serious outcomes other than death, but in case we need a reminder:

A third of COVID survivors suffer neurological or mental disorders: study

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-brain/a-third-of-covid-survivors-suffer-neurological-or-mental-disorders-study-idUSKBN2BT2ZI

One in three COVID-19 survivors in a study of more than 230,000 mostly American patients were diagnosed with a brain or psychiatric disorder within six months, suggesting the pandemic could lead to a wave of mental and neurological problems, scientists said on Tuesday.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on April 07, 2021, 06:17:34 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 07, 2021, 05:40:05 PM

Those following the science already understand that COVID has serious outcomes other than death, but in case we need a reminder:

A third of COVID survivors suffer neurological or mental disorders: study

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-brain/a-third-of-covid-survivors-suffer-neurological-or-mental-disorders-study-idUSKBN2BT2ZI

One in three COVID-19 survivors in a study of more than 230,000 mostly American patients were diagnosed with a brain or psychiatric disorder within six months, suggesting the pandemic could lead to a wave of mental and neurological problems, scientists said on Tuesday.

One bit of contention here, but first off, I HATE this headline (surprising given its Reuters), as it’s unnecessarily very dark. Going into the article, you see the vast majority of those cases are anxiety or depression. When people see brain or psychiatric disorders, you immediately go to a much more severe place.

That being said, it says 17% of the sample had anxiety issues.  National stats, irrespective from COVID, pegs the population of adult Americans struggling with anxiety in some form as about 40MM, which is 18%.  Furthermore, I remember seeing an article pre-COVID mentioning that about 1/3 of Americans fall into some form of diagnosable anxiety or clinical depression.

So beyond the difficulty in separating anxiety/depression from an actual COVID after effect versus a myriad of factors given the stress of the last year, the percentages actually track pretty close to national averages anyways.

So on one hand, it feels like kind of a reckless assumption, especially given that the article/study doesn’t mention the above and kind of assumes it’s a COVID after effect.  But on the other hand, mental health is a greatly under addressed issue nationally, so it can’t hurt. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 07, 2021, 06:56:50 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on April 07, 2021, 06:17:34 PM

One bit of contention here, but first off, I HATE this headline (surprising given its Reuters), as it’s unnecessarily very dark. Going into the article, you see the vast majority of those cases are anxiety or depression. When people see brain or psychiatric disorders, you immediately go to a much more severe place.

That being said, it says 17% of the sample had anxiety issues.  National stats, irrespective from COVID, pegs the population of adult Americans struggling with anxiety in some form as about 40MM, which is 18%.  Furthermore, I remember seeing an article pre-COVID mentioning that about 1/3 of Americans fall into some form of diagnosable anxiety or clinical depression.

So beyond the difficulty in separating anxiety/depression from an actual COVID after effect versus a myriad of factors given the stress of the last year, the percentages actually track pretty close to national averages anyways.

So on one hand, it feels like kind of a reckless assumption, especially given that the article/study doesn’t mention the above and kind of assumes it’s a COVID after effect.  But on the other hand, mental health is a greatly under addressed issue nationally, so it can’t hurt.

I won’t dispute your point about the headline.

However, the significance of, for example, the anxiety is the brief time window of the diagnosis. You noted the general rate of anxiety as 18%, but that includes people who may have been diagnosed at any point over a period of years. This study noted that 17% of post-COVID patients were diagnosed with anxiety disorder within a six-month period. That is a huge blip on the radar, and it could last for many years as anxiety disorder is frequently a chronic condition. In other words, many of these cases may be added on top of the already epidemic numbers of mental illnesses that we are seeing in the country.

In any event, as you said, it would be great if this leads to increased funding for treatment of mental illnesses. That is desperately needed in this country.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Marquette Fan on April 08, 2021, 09:29:53 PM

Huge outbreak with a variant for the Vancouver Canucks:

21 players have tested positive and they said this was the source of the outbreak:

"They said an ongoing investigation by Vancouver Coastal Health and contract tracing found that the outbreak was sparked by a single unidentified individual picking up the infection in a "community setting, which has since been identified by public health as a public exposure location."

Full article:

https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/31210578/vancouver-canucks-21-players-positive-covid-19-source-outbreak-identified

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 08, 2021, 10:06:19 PM

Quote from: Marquette Fan on April 08, 2021, 09:29:53 PM

Huge outbreak with a variant for the Vancouver Canucks:

21 players have tested positive and they said this was the source of the outbreak:

"They said an ongoing investigation by Vancouver Coastal Health and contract tracing found that the outbreak was sparked by a single unidentified individual picking up the infection in a "community setting, which has since been identified by public health as a public exposure location."

Full article:

https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/31210578/vancouver-canucks-21-players-positive-covid-19-source-outbreak-identified

That's my new line to the old lady when I come home with glitter & lipstick on my shirt and stinking of lilacs and unrequited love.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on April 08, 2021, 10:38:13 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on April 08, 2021, 10:06:19 PM

That's my new line to the old lady when I come home with glitter & lipstick on my shirt and stinking of lilacs and unrequited love.

Sounds like it’ll never be an issue for wifey, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 09, 2021, 09:51:07 AM

COVID contributes to lowest two years of US population growth in US since 1918:

America’s Population Growth Looks to Be the Slowest Since 1918

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-08/america-s-population-growth-looks-to-be-the-slowest-since-1918

Since the Declaration of Independence in 1776, the population of the U.S. has dropped only once, in 1918, when more people died from the Spanish flu than from war wounds on the battlefields of Europe. The second-lowest year for population growth? Probably this year, 2021.

An April 7 research briefing from Oxford Economics estimates that the U.S. population will grow just 0.2% this year, after growth of just 0.4% last year. Those are the lowest numbers in U.S. history, with the exception of the population shrinkage of about 0.1% in the pandemic year of 1918.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 09, 2021, 12:53:35 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 09, 2021, 09:51:07 AM

COVID contributes to lowest two years of US population growth in US since 1918:

America’s Population Growth Looks to Be the Slowest Since 1918

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-08/america-s-population-growth-looks-to-be-the-slowest-since-1918

Since the Declaration of Independence in 1776, the population of the U.S. has dropped only once, in 1918, when more people died from the Spanish flu than from war wounds on the battlefields of Europe. The second-lowest year for population growth? Probably this year, 2021.

An April 7 research briefing from Oxford Economics estimates that the U.S. population will grow just 0.2% this year, after growth of just 0.4% last year. Those are the lowest numbers in U.S. history, with the exception of the population shrinkage of about 0.1% in the pandemic year of 1918.

I woulda thought folks woulda been gettin' busy when they had nothing else to do.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 09, 2021, 01:28:36 PM

Example No. 539 of how the previous president and his administration contributed to the pandemic's terrible toll ...

Trump officials celebrated efforts to change CDC reports on coronavirus, emails show

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/04/09/cdc-covid-political-interference/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F31caa3a%2F60707ae59d2fda1dfb487097%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F10%2F70%2F60707ae59d2fda1dfb487097

Trump appointees in the Department of Health and Human Services last year privately touted their efforts to block or alter scientists’ reports on the coronavirus to more closely align with then-President Donald Trump’s more optimistic messages about the outbreak, according to newly released documents from congressional investigators.

The documents provide further insight into how senior Trump officials approached last year’s explosion of coronavirus cases in the United States. Even as career government scientists worked to combat the virus, a cadre of Trump appointees was attempting to blunt the scientists’ messages, edit their findings and equip the president with an alternate set of talking points.

Then-science adviser Paul Alexander wrote to then-HHS public affairs chief Michael Caputo on Sept. 9, 2020, touting two examples of where he said officials at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention had bowed to his pressure and changed language in their reports, according to an email obtained by the House’s select subcommittee on the coronavirus outbreak.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 09, 2021, 01:54:03 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 09, 2021, 12:53:35 PM

I woulda thought folks woulda been gettin' busy when they had nothing else to do.

Households with kids around 24/7, not so amorous.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on April 09, 2021, 02:25:18 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 09, 2021, 12:53:35 PM

I woulda thought folks woulda been gettin' busy when they had nothing else to do.

Since the pandemic quarantine started around Mid-March, there would only be a month or two of Covid babies in 2020.

Also, that's not the only factor that drives population growth.


It would be interesting to see  two trend lines of net births/deaths and net immigration/emigration.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 09, 2021, 03:03:43 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on April 09, 2021, 01:54:03 PM

Households with kids around 24/7, not so amorous.

True dat.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on April 09, 2021, 05:45:39 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on April 09, 2021, 02:25:18 PM

Since the pandemic quarantine started around Mid-March, there would only be a month or two of Covid babies in 2020.

Also, that's not the only factor that drives population growth.


It would be interesting to see  two trend lines of net births/deaths and net immigration/emigration.

I read an article today that last year was the smallest percentage population increase in US history except for the other pandemic year - 1918

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 09, 2021, 05:51:19 PM

Quote from: Jockey on April 09, 2021, 05:45:39 PM

I read an article today that last year was the smallest percentage population increase in US history except for the other pandemic year - 1918

Yep.

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 09, 2021, 09:51:07 AM

COVID contributes to lowest two years of US population growth in US since 1918:

America’s Population Growth Looks to Be the Slowest Since 1918

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-08/america-s-population-growth-looks-to-be-the-slowest-since-1918

Since the Declaration of Independence in 1776, the population of the U.S. has dropped only once, in 1918, when more people died from the Spanish flu than from war wounds on the battlefields of Europe. The second-lowest year for population growth? Probably this year, 2021.

An April 7 research briefing from Oxford Economics estimates that the U.S. population will grow just 0.2% this year, after growth of just 0.4% last year. Those are the lowest numbers in U.S. history, with the exception of the population shrinkage of about 0.1% in the pandemic year of 1918.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on April 10, 2021, 03:53:54 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 09, 2021, 01:28:36 PM

Example No. 539 of how the previous president and his administration contributed to the pandemic's terrible toll ...

Trump officials celebrated efforts to change CDC reports on coronavirus, emails show

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/04/09/cdc-covid-political-interference/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F31caa3a%2F60707ae59d2fda1dfb487097%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F10%2F70%2F60707ae59d2fda1dfb487097

Trump appointees in the Department of Health and Human Services last year privately touted their efforts to block or alter scientists’ reports on the coronavirus to more closely align with then-President Donald Trump’s more optimistic messages about the outbreak, according to newly released documents from congressional investigators.

The documents provide further insight into how senior Trump officials approached last year’s explosion of coronavirus cases in the United States. Even as career government scientists worked to combat the virus, a cadre of Trump appointees was attempting to blunt the scientists’ messages, edit their findings and equip the president with an alternate set of talking points.

Then-science adviser Paul Alexander wrote to then-HHS public affairs chief Michael Caputo on Sept. 9, 2020, touting two examples of where he said officials at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention had bowed to his pressure and changed language in their reports, according to an email obtained by the House’s select subcommittee on the coronavirus outbreak.

“Best president of my lifetime”

A prominent but brain poisoned scooper.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on April 12, 2021, 08:46:53 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1381571299739369475

Mentioned this in another thread how the overly negative media coverage has led to irrational fear amongst many in America.

Glad to see some are starting to raise awareness to it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 12, 2021, 08:56:54 AM

Exactly.  First, the more you continue to talk like that, the more people are going to treat you like a chicken little and ignore your advice.  Second, you have to give people hope.  Third, vaccines were never meant to completely rid the world of Covid.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jsglow on April 12, 2021, 11:08:51 AM

Fourth, medical 'experts' enjoy the power trip as much as any politician.  Dr. Fauci and Dr. Walensky really enjoy going to the virtual cocktail parties they had never been invited to before.  You think they are giving up the limelight?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on April 12, 2021, 11:35:56 AM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 07, 2021, 06:56:50 PM

I won’t dispute your point about the headline.

However, the significance of, for example, the anxiety is the brief time window of the diagnosis. You noted the general rate of anxiety as 18%, but that includes people who may have been diagnosed at any point over a period of years. This study noted that 17% of post-COVID patients were diagnosed with anxiety disorder within a six-month period. That is a huge blip on the radar, and it could last for many years as anxiety disorder is frequently a chronic condition. In other words, many of these cases may be added on top of the already epidemic numbers of mental illnesses that we are seeing in the country.

In any event, as you said, it would be great if this leads to increased funding for treatment of mental illnesses. That is desperately needed in this country.

And, hopefully the removal of social stigmas too. I don't immediately go to a more or less severe place when I see terms such as brain or psychiatric disorders.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 12, 2021, 12:03:55 PM

Quote from: jsglow on April 12, 2021, 11:08:51 AM

Fourth, medical 'experts' enjoy the power trip as much as any politician.  Dr. Fauci and Dr. Walensky really enjoy going to the virtual cocktail parties they had never been invited to before.  You think they are giving up the limelight?

(https://img1.looper.com/img/gallery/what-the-cast-of-revenge-of-the-nerds-looks-like-today/intro-1507658461.jpg)

NERDS!!!!!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 12, 2021, 01:06:03 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on April 12, 2021, 11:35:56 AM

And, hopefully the removal of social stigmas too. I don't immediately go to a more or less severe place when I see terms such as brain or psychiatric disorders.

Absolutely.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 13, 2021, 12:08:14 AM

Friend of my wife, around Boulder.  Uber healthy, ~40, studying for FNP, was vaccine hesitant, ended up with Covid, hospitalized on 4/8/21, 5 days of O2 + antibiotics, dexamethasone, and remdesivir (3 shots).  Plus some Lovenox to avoid clotting.  Doing a little better now.

She was probably a little lax in thinking it didn't affect younger healthy people.

Get your vaccines, and be cautions to avoid spread afterwards folks.  We can get through this soon, just don't be stupid, or careless towards your fellow humans.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on April 13, 2021, 11:24:57 AM

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-56729607

One person returning from South Africa in February caused an outbreak of the South African variant. And the person did the right thing when symptoms appeared by isolating and testing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 13, 2021, 01:31:26 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on April 13, 2021, 11:24:57 AM

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-56729607

One person returning from South Africa in February caused an outbreak of the South African variant. And the person did the right thing when symptoms appeared by isolating and testing.

Interesting story.

And they need better copy editors. "Covid: South Africa variant surge probaby due to person travelling from Africa." Ouch!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on April 15, 2021, 05:55:18 PM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/04/13/covid-outside-safety/#click=https://t.co/E7ShxaPfkD

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 15, 2021, 06:42:20 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on April 15, 2021, 05:55:18 PM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/04/13/covid-outside-safety/#click=https://t.co/E7ShxaPfkD

Yep. Get out, go for a walk, ride your bike. Better alone or in a small group than in a big crowd, but either way, better than in bars and house parties.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on April 15, 2021, 07:14:05 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 15, 2021, 06:42:20 PM

Yep. Get out, go for a walk, ride your bike. Better alone or in a small group than in a big crowd, but either way, better than in bars and house parties.

If you’re by yourself whether indoor or outdoor pretty sure you’re safe.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 15, 2021, 08:11:46 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on April 15, 2021, 07:14:05 PM

If you’re by yourself whether indoor or outdoor pretty sure you’re safe.

Indeed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on April 22, 2021, 09:19:34 PM

87,000 COVID-19 patient study with 5 million control patients in federal data base, increase risk of death six months after diagnosis:

https://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/health-med-fit/coronavirus/covid-19-survivors-have-increased-risk-of-death-six-months-after-diagnosis-study-finds/article_afa7c9b6-76e8-5290-b850-ab9571b9d327.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 23, 2021, 12:57:47 PM

It's just like the flu...

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/04/23/us/covid-19-death-toll.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytimes

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 28, 2021, 02:44:58 PM

Charges should be brought against Cuomo and some of his staffers.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/28/nyregion/cuomo-aides-nursing-home-deaths.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20210428&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=56739&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

The effort by Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo’s office to obscure the pandemic death toll in New York nursing homes was far greater than previously known, with aides repeatedly overruling state health officials over a span of at least five months, according to interviews and newly unearthed documents.

Mr. Cuomo’s most senior aides engaged in a sustained effort to prevent the state’s own health officials, including the commissioner, Howard Zucker, from releasing the true death toll to the public or sharing it with state lawmakers, these interviews and documents showed.

A scientific paper, which incorporated the data, was never published. An audit of the numbers by a top Cuomo aide was finished months before it became publicly known. Two letters, drafted by the Health Department and meant for state legislators, were never sent.

The actions coincided with the period in which Mr. Cuomo was pitching and then writing a book on the pandemic, with the assistance of his top aide, Melissa DeRosa, and others.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 28, 2021, 02:48:50 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 28, 2021, 02:44:58 PM

Charges should be brought against Cuomo and some of his staffers.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/28/nyregion/cuomo-aides-nursing-home-deaths.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20210428&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=56739&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

The effort by Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo’s office to obscure the pandemic death toll in New York nursing homes was far greater than previously known, with aides repeatedly overruling state health officials over a span of at least five months, according to interviews and newly unearthed documents.

Mr. Cuomo’s most senior aides engaged in a sustained effort to prevent the state’s own health officials, including the commissioner, Howard Zucker, from releasing the true death toll to the public or sharing it with state lawmakers, these interviews and documents showed.

A scientific paper, which incorporated the data, was never published. An audit of the numbers by a top Cuomo aide was finished months before it became publicly known. Two letters, drafted by the Health Department and meant for state legislators, were never sent.

The actions coincided with the period in which Mr. Cuomo was pitching and then writing a book on the pandemic, with the assistance of his top aide, Melissa DeRosa, and others.

Yup.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 29, 2021, 08:44:50 PM

Quote from: MU82 on April 28, 2021, 02:44:58 PM

Charges should be brought against Cuomo and some of his staffers.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/28/nyregion/cuomo-aides-nursing-home-deaths.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20210428&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=56739&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

The effort by Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo’s office to obscure the pandemic death toll in New York nursing homes was far greater than previously known, with aides repeatedly overruling state health officials over a span of at least five months, according to interviews and newly unearthed documents.

Mr. Cuomo’s most senior aides engaged in a sustained effort to prevent the state’s own health officials, including the commissioner, Howard Zucker, from releasing the true death toll to the public or sharing it with state lawmakers, these interviews and documents showed.

A scientific paper, which incorporated the data, was never published. An audit of the numbers by a top Cuomo aide was finished months before it became publicly known. Two letters, drafted by the Health Department and meant for state legislators, were never sent.

The actions coincided with the period in which Mr. Cuomo was pitching and then writing a book on the pandemic, with the assistance of his top aide, Melissa DeRosa, and others.

Agreed. Plenty of others did awful stuff through ignorance and naïveté. It appears that Cuomo did awful stuff intentionally and methodically.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on April 29, 2021, 09:57:32 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 29, 2021, 08:44:50 PM

Agreed. Plenty of others did awful stuff through ignorance and naïveté. It appears that Cuomo did awful stuff intentionally and methodically.

Agreed. I don't know enough about all the legalese to know if he actually did anything illegal. But obviously, it was unethical and immoral, and he should not be governor of any state.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on April 30, 2021, 07:59:09 PM

Apparently it cures cancer.

https://slate.com/technology/2021/04/cancer-covid-remission-treatment-viruses.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MarquetteDano on May 01, 2021, 11:12:56 AM

Quote from: warriorchick on April 30, 2021, 07:59:09 PM

Apparently it cures cancer.

https://slate.com/technology/2021/04/cancer-covid-remission-treatment-viruses.html

Oh man.  The populist politicians and conspiracy theorists are going to love this article.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on May 02, 2021, 06:01:10 PM

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 29, 2021, 08:44:50 PM

Agreed. Plenty of others did awful stuff through ignorance and naïveté. It appears that Cuomo did awful stuff intentionally and methodically.

come on gooooo, another "they all do it" ?   

also, would be nice if the teachers unions would stay out of the medical field and try to stick with what they...well let's just say, let the CDC do their thing.  trying to be fair by posting from a source most of you can agree with, without crying "faux news" or something

https://news.yahoo.com/american-federation-teachers-union-influenced-141822843.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 02, 2021, 06:28:18 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on May 02, 2021, 06:01:10 PM

come on gooooo, another "the
also, would be nice if the teachers unions would stay out of the medical field and try to stick with y all do it" ?   
what they...well let's just say, let the CDC do their thing.

So you're a believer in the CDC now?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 02, 2021, 07:30:39 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on May 02, 2021, 06:01:10 PM

come on gooooo, another "they all do it" ?   

also, would be nice if the teachers unions would stay out of the medical field and try to stick with what they...well let's just say, let the CDC do their thing.  trying to be fair by posting from a source most of you can agree with, without crying "faux news" or something

https://news.yahoo.com/american-federation-teachers-union-influenced-141822843.html

I never said "they all do it." I said "plenty of others" did awful things...and that is completely true. I also said that what Cuomo did was much worse.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on May 03, 2021, 08:49:03 AM

https://www.vox.com/the-goods/22410017/dating-post-vaccine-kinsey-relationships-hookups

Dating podcasters, condom companies, bartenders, and college students weigh in on the horny months to come.

 8-)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 03, 2021, 11:17:56 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on May 03, 2021, 08:49:03 AM

https://www.vox.com/the-goods/22410017/dating-post-vaccine-kinsey-relationships-hookups

Dating podcasters, condom companies, bartenders, and college students weigh in on the horny months to come.

 8-)

Eye gess Doc Dribble wuz rite abowt da fookin' starting May furst, nu?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 03, 2021, 11:41:14 AM

Anyone know why the CDC is lowering the cycle threshold for PCR tests when trying to identify these break through cases after vaccinated?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 03, 2021, 12:28:05 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 03, 2021, 11:41:14 AM

Anyone know why the CDC is lowering the cycle threshold for PCR tests when trying to identify these break through cases after vaccinated?

Can you provide a link to the story indicating exactly what they are doing?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 03, 2021, 01:43:49 PM

Quote from: forgetful on May 03, 2021, 12:28:05 PM

Can you provide a link to the story indicating exactly what they are doing?

Attached is cdc guidelines saying for breakthrough cases it needs to be less then 28.  From what I understood this whole time it was up to 40?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on May 03, 2021, 02:13:07 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 03, 2021, 01:43:49 PM

Attached is cdc guidelines saying for breakthrough cases it needs to be less then 28.  From what I understood this whole time it was up to 40?

I souldn't pretend to understand any of this, but it looks like anything requiring > 38 Ct would be  indeterminate or negative result.  Detection at Ct <= 28 would be the "sweet" spot (according to these graphs) of positive results.

But maybe I've got that all wrong. 
https://www.publichealthontario.ca/-/media/documents/ncov/main/2020/09/cycle-threshold-values-sars-cov2-pcr.pdf?la=en

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on May 03, 2021, 02:39:59 PM

Weird timing, but I just listened to a podcast that discussed at length what cycles in a PCR test meant. It was in the context of Andrew Wakefield's fraud, but the concept is relevant to this as well: https://peterattiamd.com/briandeer/ (I think the relevant discussion occurs at about the 1 hour mark)

Essentially the explanation is that PCR engages in an exponential replication of the thing its testing for, so the difference between a positive test at 28 cycles and 40 cycles is the difference between 2^40 - 2^28. The numbers get massive, and the sense is that the farther you push, either the less was there in the first place or the more chance for error.***

*** I am not a scientist, merely a parrot for the podcast I linked above

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 03, 2021, 03:12:25 PM

Quote from: jficke13 on May 03, 2021, 02:39:59 PM

Weird timing, but I just listened to a podcast that discussed at length what cycles in a PCR test meant. It was in the context of Andrew Wakefield's fraud, but the concept is relevant to this as well: https://peterattiamd.com/briandeer/ (I think the relevant discussion occurs at about the 1 hour mark)

Interesting!  If that’s the case, does it essentially mean they aren’t looking as “hard” for breakthrough cases as they do if you’re not vaccinated? 

If true wonder what the motivation or reason why would be

Essentially the explanation is that PCR engages in an exponential replication of the thing its testing for, so the difference between a positive test at 28 cycles and 40 cycles is the difference between 2^40 - 2^28. The numbers get massive, and the sense is that the farther you push, either the less was there in the first place or the more chance for error.***

*** I am not a scientist, merely a parrot for the podcast I linked above

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 03, 2021, 05:08:55 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 03, 2021, 01:43:49 PM

Attached is cdc guidelines saying for breakthrough cases it needs to be less then 28.  From what I understood this whole time it was up to 40?

Where did you find/read/hear about this discrepancy?

Or do you read cdc guidelines frequently enough to notice a change like that?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on May 03, 2021, 05:14:38 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 03, 2021, 03:12:25 PM

Interesting!  If that’s the case, does it essentially mean they aren’t looking as “hard” for breakthrough cases as they do if you’re not vaccinated?

If true wonder what the motivation or reason why would be

Well, as mentioned, this appears to be a "amplification" factor, so the more you push it, the less reliable the "positive" test results are.  Like using zoom on a digital picture -  once you get down to seeing only a few pixels, you don't really know what you're looking at.

But 3 things.  1) Hopefully someone smart will chime in here.  2) You seem to be assuming this has "changed" for vaccinated people, but haven't provided references for " normal" PCR test cycles.  3) You seem to be assuming (or someone else has suggested to you) that there is "motivation" for the change.  Do you have a news source for that?

Without confirming the last 2, this seems like a non-issue to a simpleton like me.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 03, 2021, 07:47:37 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 03, 2021, 01:43:49 PM

Attached is cdc guidelines saying for breakthrough cases it needs to be less then 28.  From what I understood this whole time it was up to 40?

Also curious to where you found that.

Here's what you are reading. That is not any change in cdc guidelines. That is a study the CDC is conducting to look for COVID breakthrough cases, and to do surveillance to identify possible new strains that emerge that may be more resistant to the vaccines.

The cycle threshold you are seeing isn't any change regarding positive tests etc., it is the threshold requirement for those specimens to be subjected to sequencing to determine if it represents a new variant, or which variant it represents.

You don't want to be sequencing any false positives, so the threshold for sequencing will be more stringent than a simple positive test to ensure it represents an active infection.

Also, Rocky and others are correct. The PCR cycles are an amplification factor, so for 40 cycles you have an amplification factor of roughly 2^40.

There are some of these tests that my lab runs where we restrict our cycles to around 20-24 instead of 35 or more, because simple background (DNA in that case) will give false positives. Controlling the number of PCR cycles is essential to ensuring that the resulting data is robust and accurate. That's why these different testing platforms are rigorously tested to identify the cycle threshold that one deems a positive, that one deems a negative, and ones that are inconclusive.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 03, 2021, 08:37:14 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on May 03, 2021, 05:14:38 PM

Well, as mentioned, this appears to be a "amplification" factor, so the more you push it, the less reliable the "positive" test results are.  Like using zoom on a digital picture -  once you get down to seeing only a few pixels, you don't really know what you're looking at.

But 3 things.  1) Hopefully someone smart will chime in here.  2) You seem to be assuming this has "changed" for vaccinated people, but haven't provided references for " normal" PCR test cycles.  3) You seem to be assuming (or someone else has suggested to you) that there is "motivation" for the change.  Do you have a news source for that?

Without confirming the last 2, this seems like a non-issue to a simpleton like me.

It’s been reported on for awhile that labs had the testing set to 40 far more often then not, on rarer occasions labs used 37.  Attached is snipped from NY Times article back in August 2020.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 03, 2021, 08:40:59 PM

Quote from: forgetful on May 03, 2021, 07:47:37 PM

Also curious to where you found that.

Here's what you are reading. That is not any change in cdc guidelines. That is a study the CDC is conducting to look for COVID breakthrough cases, and to do surveillance to identify possible new strains that emerge that may be more resistant to the vaccines.

The cycle threshold you are seeing isn't any change regarding positive tests etc., it is the threshold requirement for those specimens to be subjected to sequencing to determine if it represents a new variant, or which variant it represents.

You don't want to be sequencing any false positives, so the threshold for sequencing will be more stringent than a simple positive test to ensure it represents an active infection.

Also, Rocky and others are correct. The PCR cycles are an amplification factor, so for 40 cycles you have an amplification factor of roughly 2^40.

There are some of these tests that my lab runs where we restrict our cycles to around 20-24 instead of 35 or more, because simple background (DNA in that case) will give false positives. Controlling the number of PCR cycles is essential to ensuring that the resulting data is robust and accurate. That's why these different testing platforms are rigorously tested to identify the cycle threshold that one deems a positive, that one deems a negative, and ones that are inconclusive.

Ok that makes sense enough for a layman like myself.  Do you know outside the parameters of this study will the higher CT values on breakthrough cases still be caught somewhere else and reported?

A lot to be learned from these breakthrough cases, so would hate to see some go unidentified/looked into further.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 03, 2021, 08:49:38 PM

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/29/health/coronavirus-testing.html

Really interesting to go back and read this article.  Helps me better understand the belief by some that a good chunk of the death total attached to this pandemic was folks that died with Covid not necessarily from Covid. 

Not sure I fully align with that but can at least understand why some might feel that way.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on May 03, 2021, 09:52:27 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 03, 2021, 08:40:59 PM

Ok that makes sense enough for a layman like myself.  Do you know outside the parameters of this study will the higher CT values on breakthrough cases still be caught somewhere else and reported?

A lot to be learned from these breakthrough cases, so would hate to see some go unidentified/looked into further.

It's a good question. My assumption is that the data regarding breakthrough cases will be recorded. The description of the study essentially indicates that this is so. One of the metrics they will be recording is the number of cycles for positive cases.

What I'm not certain of is how widespread this study is. It would require that people disclose a prior vaccine when getting tested, and I'm honestly not certain how common that is, and who that is being reported to.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 04, 2021, 05:20:28 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on May 03, 2021, 05:08:55 PM

Where did you find/read/hear about this discrepancy?

Or do you read cdc guidelines frequently enough to notice a change like that?

Any response, pace?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 04, 2021, 05:43:35 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on May 04, 2021, 05:20:28 AM

Any response, pace?

To what?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 04, 2021, 09:14:06 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 03, 2021, 08:49:38 PM

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/29/health/coronavirus-testing.html

Really interesting to go back and read this article.  Helps me better understand the belief by some that a good chunk of the death total attached to this pandemic was folks that died with Covid not necessarily from Covid. 

Not sure I fully align with that but can at least understand why some might feel that way.

Sigh.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 04, 2021, 11:03:00 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on May 04, 2021, 09:14:06 AM

Sigh.

Nothing from the article (assuming you read it) put the slightest skepticism in your mind? 

When they went back and did retrospective analysis to find that 60-70% of positive cases had such a high Ct value that they would not have even suggested doing contact tracing for those covid+ folks because the viral load was next to non-existent in their system, that’s enough for me to at least question some (not all) of the mortality numbers pinned to this.  Not sure how one could objectively/honestly take that information any other way. 

This is in no way suggesting Covid isn’t real just maybe not quite as high of mortality rate, that’s it.   It would be good news!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 04, 2021, 11:38:54 AM

Reaching ‘Herd Immunity’ Is Unlikely in the U.S., Experts Now Believe

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/03/health/covid-herd-immunity-vaccine.html?campaign_id=4&emc=edit_dk_20210504&instance_id=30184&nl=dealbook&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=57166&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

Early in the pandemic, when vaccines for the coronavirus were still just a glimmer on the horizon, the term “herd immunity” came to signify the endgame: the point when enough Americans would be protected from the virus so we could be rid of the pathogen and reclaim our lives.

Now, more than half of adults in the United States have been inoculated with at least one dose of a vaccine. But daily vaccination rates are slipping, and there is widespread consensus among scientists and public health experts that the herd immunity threshold is not attainable — at least not in the foreseeable future, and perhaps not ever.

Instead, they are coming to the conclusion that rather than making a long-promised exit, the virus will most likely become a manageable threat that will continue to circulate in the United States for years to come, still causing hospitalizations and deaths but in much smaller numbers.

How much smaller is uncertain and depends in part on how much of the nation, and the world, becomes vaccinated and how the coronavirus evolves. It is already clear, however, that the virus is changing too quickly, new variants are spreading too easily and vaccination is proceeding too slowly for herd immunity to be within reach anytime soon.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 04, 2021, 11:53:09 AM

Quote from: MU82 on May 04, 2021, 11:38:54 AM

Reaching ‘Herd Immunity’ Is Unlikely in the U.S., Experts Now Believe

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/03/health/covid-herd-immunity-vaccine.html?campaign_id=4&emc=edit_dk_20210504&instance_id=30184&nl=dealbook&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=57166&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

Early in the pandemic, when vaccines for the coronavirus were still just a glimmer on the horizon, the term “herd immunity” came to signify the endgame: the point when enough Americans would be protected from the virus so we could be rid of the pathogen and reclaim our lives.

Now, more than half of adults in the United States have been inoculated with at least one dose of a vaccine. But daily vaccination rates are slipping, and there is widespread consensus among scientists and public health experts that the herd immunity threshold is not attainable — at least not in the foreseeable future, and perhaps not ever.

Instead, they are coming to the conclusion that rather than making a long-promised exit, the virus will most likely become a manageable threat that will continue to circulate in the United States for years to come, still causing hospitalizations and deaths but in much smaller numbers.

How much smaller is uncertain and depends in part on how much of the nation, and the world, becomes vaccinated and how the coronavirus evolves. It is already clear, however, that the virus is changing too quickly, new variants are spreading too easily and vaccination is proceeding too slowly for herd immunity to be within reach anytime soon.

Will be interesting to see how things play out.  Was reading an article about how Israel has all but wiped out hospitalizations and Covid deaths with some thinking they’re on the brink of herd immunity with around 60% of their population vaccinated. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 04, 2021, 12:44:56 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 04, 2021, 05:43:35 AM

To what?

Where did you find/read/hear about this discrepancy?

Or do you read cdc guidelines frequently enough to notice a change like that?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 04, 2021, 09:05:51 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on May 04, 2021, 12:44:56 PM

Where did you find/read/hear about this discrepancy?

Or do you read cdc guidelines frequently enough to notice a change like that?

The initial PCR Ct acceptance of laboratories running 37-40 has been reported outside of mainstream media for quite awhile.  I was wrong in that it was not a CDC requirement or guideline but in hindsight seems irresponsible for them to not require laboratories to run a little tighter ship.

As far as the new CDC study of requiring Ct of 28 or less was something I came across as I was reading about these breakthrough cases.  I was wrong in thinking these were official guidelines though.  Would be interesting once the dust settles to see what the Ct scores were for all the positive cases over the last 13 months and what % of deaths happened in folks with Ct greater then 30 or 35. 

What does it matter?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 04, 2021, 09:24:40 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 04, 2021, 09:05:51 PM

The initial PCR Ct acceptance of laboratories running 37-40 has been reported outside of mainstream media for quite awhile.  I was wrong in that it was not a CDC requirement or guideline but in hindsight seems irresponsible for them to not require laboratories to run a little tighter ship.

As far as the new CDC study of requiring Ct of 28 or less was something I came across as I was reading about these breakthrough cases.  I was wrong in thinking these were official guidelines though.  Would be interesting once the dust settles to see what the Ct scores were for all the positive cases over the last 13 months and what % of deaths happened in folks with Ct greater then 30 or 35. 

What does it matter?

It matters because it demonstrates your motive for this discussion.

So, as others have also asked, where did you originally come across this topic/difference?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 04, 2021, 09:29:22 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on May 04, 2021, 09:24:40 PM

It matters because it demonstrates your motive for this discussion.

So, as others have also asked, where did you originally come across this topic/difference?

Nunya

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 04, 2021, 09:41:07 PM

Forgetful or Goooo?

Any idea about furin cleavage?  Just read an article (linked below) suggesting the Covid furin cleavage site is unique and can only happen after circulating within humans for years or through laboratory intervention?

A lot of this might as well be written in Latin and way over my head so figured yo two might know a little more.

https://nicholaswade.medium.com/origin-of-covid-following-the-clues-6f03564c038

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 04, 2021, 10:26:11 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 04, 2021, 09:29:22 PM

Nunya

Ah.

So just more disingenuous discussion so you can push a biased viewpoint

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 04, 2021, 10:57:02 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on May 04, 2021, 10:26:11 PM

Ah.

So just more disingenuous discussion so you can push a biased viewpoint

What??  By posting an article from the New York Times and then a CDC document?  What is disingenuous about wanting to know about the importance/role of accurate and reliable Ct values?

I’d argue it’d be disingenuous and biased to bury your head in the sand?  I was asking questions about information I read, forgetful provided some clarity and context which was appreciated.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on May 05, 2021, 02:03:33 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 04, 2021, 10:57:02 PM

I’d argue it’d be disingenuous and biased to bury your head in the sand?  I was asking questions about information I read

Bury your head in the sand....about cycle thresholds that you have yet to quote a source  for as having changed?   Information you read about 28 Ct being a change from previous?   Again, where did you read this?

Edit:  if you're just "wrong" say sorry and don't try to imply other are idiots for missing the big conspiracy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 05, 2021, 06:11:14 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on May 05, 2021, 02:03:33 AM

Bury your head in the sand....about cycle thresholds that you have yet to quote a source  for as having changed?   Information you read about 28 Ct being a change from previous?   Again, where did you read this?

Edit:  if you're just "wrong" say sorry and don't try to imply other are idiots for missing the big conspiracy.

Goodness you guys.  Attached is a document that forgetful later clarified to me was a document from a cdc study. 

If you read it, it mentions to qualify for the study the positive test needed to be Ct equal or less then 28.

This whole time CDC was accepting and reporting Covid cases up to Ct 40, simply was wondering if anyone knew why the change.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 05, 2021, 06:11:53 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on May 05, 2021, 02:03:33 AM

Bury your head in the sand....about cycle thresholds that you have yet to quote a source  for as having changed?   Information you read about 28 Ct being a change from previous?   Again, where did you read this?

Edit:  if you're just "wrong" say sorry and don't try to imply other are idiots for missing the big conspiracy.

Exactly.

"Nunya" is all we need to know about where this discussion is coming from.

And now furin cleavage.

Clearly this is all discussion meant to point to the lab leak hypothesis or some other conspiracy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 05, 2021, 06:12:58 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 05, 2021, 06:11:14 AM

Goodness you guys.  Attached is a document that forgetful later clarified to me was a document from a cdc study. 

If you read it, it mentions to qualify for the study the positive test needed to be Ct equal or less then 28.

This whole time CDC was accepting and reporting Covid cases up to Ct 40, simply was wondering if anyone knew why the change.

Again, how'd you notice the discrepancy? Read cdc documents frequently for fun?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 05, 2021, 06:24:29 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on May 05, 2021, 06:12:58 AM

Again, how'd you notice the discrepancy? Read cdc documents frequently for fun?

No. My dad was hospitalized as a breakthrough case (vaccinated since early March) so I was doing way too much reading on what breakthrough cases are, how they’re defined, hospitalization rate, etc

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 05, 2021, 06:40:08 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on May 05, 2021, 06:11:53 AM

Exactly.

"Nunya" is all we need to know about where this discussion is coming from.

And now furin cleavage.

Clearly this is all discussion meant to point to the lab leak hypothesis or some other conspiracy.

If you read the link you’d understand there is nothing conspiratorial about the link or the evidence with in.

Author does a great job (imo) walking you through the evidence and argument for an animal to human theory and then the same for the lab leak theory, it’s got to be one or the other.

He doesn’t come up with a conclusion in the article so when i need further conversation and clarification to be told how to think I go to two spots.  Mi amor y scoop.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 05, 2021, 07:12:41 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on May 05, 2021, 06:11:53 AM

Exactly.

"Nunya" is all we need to know about where this discussion is coming from.

And now furin cleavage.

Clearly this is all discussion meant to point to the lab leak hypothesis or some other conspiracy.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-56581246.amp

And if you still consider the lab leak as complete hogwash conspiracy then I repeat, your head is in the sand.

I have no idea if it’s true but a lot of legitimate news sources and the WHO for crying out loud believe it needs further evaluating. 

Just cause Anderson Cooper or Jake Tapper aren’t covering it doesn’t mean it’s not worth looking into.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 05, 2021, 08:43:00 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 05, 2021, 06:24:29 AM

No. My dad was hospitalized as a breakthrough case (vaccinated since early March) so I was doing way too much reading on what breakthrough cases are, how they’re defined, hospitalization rate, etc

Why didn't you say that to begin with?

Can't blame other posters for being a bit skeptical considering your history.

I never said lab leak was hogwash. I said it was a hypothesis.

I'll be interested to follow your further posts on support for the WHO and news sources.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 05, 2021, 09:04:39 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 05, 2021, 06:11:14 AM

Goodness you guys.  Attached is a document that forgetful later clarified to me was a document from a cdc study. 

If you read it, it mentions to qualify for the study the positive test needed to be Ct equal or less then 28.

This whole time CDC was accepting and reporting Covid cases up to Ct 40, simply was wondering if anyone knew why the change.

The whole number of cycles debate was in the news last summer.

I'm not going to search for it, so jesmu, you don't have to hound me daily for the next month.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 05, 2021, 10:07:36 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1389959123752599552

My boy Scotty is on board.  Or am I the former head of the FDA?  Or maybe I’m Chico?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 05, 2021, 12:18:13 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 05, 2021, 09:04:39 AM

The whole number of cycles debate was in the news last summer.

I'm not going to search for it, so jesmu, you don't have to hound me daily for the next month.

Lol. Whatever you say

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 05, 2021, 01:10:54 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 05, 2021, 10:07:36 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1389959123752599552

My boy Scotty is on board.  Or am I the former head of the FDA?  Or maybe I’m Chico?

I wouldn't say he is on board.  What he and the author of the article are putting forth are that it can't be ruled out.

Also, you MAY want to check out the background of the author of the article.  He is certainly an interesting guy.

In the end, does it matter as to the origin of the virus?  IF it leaked from a lab, I'm sure that by now the safety procedures have changed.  What would you like to see happen?  Sanctions?  Retribution?  What would that look like?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 05, 2021, 01:44:58 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 05, 2021, 01:10:54 PM

I wouldn't say he is on board.  What he and the author of the article are putting forth are that it can't be ruled out.

Also, you MAY want to check out the background of the author of the article.  He is certainly an interesting guy.

In the end, does it matter as to the origin of the virus?  IF it leaked from a lab, I'm sure that by now the safety procedures have changed.  What would you like to see happen?  Sanctions?  Retribution?  What would that look like?

You're right, I should have provided further detail.  He’s definitely not on board with it being a lab leak definitely but seems to agree there’s enough smoke there to warrant further investigation and for anyone to call a lab leak a conspiracy at this point is crazy.

If it’s determined to be a lab leak then I would expect further investigation into whether it was a purposeful leak or accidental.  If accidental like you said make sure lessons are learned and adjustments made.  If purposeful then there needs to be severe repercussions.  We’re a long way from that though.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 05, 2021, 01:50:20 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 05, 2021, 01:44:58 PM

You're right, I should have provided further detail.  He’s definitely not on board with it being a lab leak definitely but seems to agree there’s enough smoke there to warrant further investigation and for anyone to call a lab leak a conspiracy at this point is crazy.

If it’s determined to be a lab leak then I would expect further investigation into whether it was a purposeful leak or accidental.  If accidental like you said make sure lessons are learned and adjustments made.  If purposeful then there needs to be severe repercussions.  We’re a long way from that though.

Agree generally, but I don't know what kind of severe repercussions we would be willing to go for.  Isolate China like we've done to Iran or DPRK?  Adios to the world economy!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 05, 2021, 02:02:24 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 05, 2021, 01:44:58 PM

You're right, I should have provided further detail.  He’s definitely not on board with it being a lab leak definitely but seems to agree there’s enough smoke there to warrant further investigation and for anyone to call a lab leak a conspiracy at this point is crazy.

If it’s determined to be a lab leak then I would expect further investigation into whether it was a purposeful leak or accidental.  If accidental like you said make sure lessons are learned and adjustments made.  If purposeful then there needs to be severe repercussions.  We’re a long way from that though.

Agreed, actually.

The only report released was verified through the chinese admin before release with much conflict of interest.

Need impartial report done.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 05, 2021, 02:09:03 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 05, 2021, 01:50:20 PM

Agree generally, but I don't know what kind of severe repercussions we would be willing to go for.  Isolate China like we've done to Iran or DPRK?  Adios to the world economy!

Ya I’m not sure what the appropriate repercussions would be to the purposeful leak of a bio weapon which results in millions of deaths and significant economic harm. 

On paper that’s an act of war so can’t imagine a scenario in which we would just let them get away with it and ask them to not do it again.  If indeed it turned out to be both an intentional leak that was followed by a cover up it would certainly be a mess.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 05, 2021, 02:17:38 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on May 05, 2021, 12:18:13 PM

Lol. Whatever you say

That's about the extent of your contributions here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 05, 2021, 02:32:53 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 05, 2021, 02:17:38 PM

That's about the extent of your contributions here.

Your gaslighting is fun.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 05, 2021, 04:00:21 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on May 05, 2021, 02:32:53 PM

Your gaslighting is fun.

I have gas, that is true.  However, I learned the hard way not to light my farts back in college.  It was funny at the time and I still chuckle about it now and then.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 05, 2021, 04:20:27 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 05, 2021, 04:00:21 PM

I have gas, that is true.  However, I learned the hard way not to light my farts back in college.  It was funny at the time and I still chuckle about it now and then.

Any pics/video?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 05, 2021, 05:02:01 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on May 05, 2021, 04:20:27 PM

Any pics/video?

Pre camera phones, praised be Jesus Christ.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on May 09, 2021, 10:25:15 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on November 17, 2020, 10:08:04 PM

this thing is airborne.  Lets just accept that and not do things that would allow you to catch/transmit it indoors.

You don't say...
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/05/cdc-coronavirus-airborne-infection-six-feet.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 10, 2021, 07:28:07 PM

https://thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-origin-of-covid-did-people-or-nature-open-pandoras-box-at-wuhan/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 11, 2021, 10:07:34 AM

CDC exaggerating risk of becoming infected when outdoors and unmasked?

From NYT:

When the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention released new guidelines last month for mask wearing, it announced that “less than 10 percent” of Covid-19 transmission was occurring outdoors. Media organizations repeated the statistic, and it quickly became a standard description of the frequency of outdoor transmission.

But the number is almost certainly misleading.

It appears to be based partly on a misclassification of some Covid transmission that actually took place in enclosed spaces (as I explain below). An even bigger issue is the extreme caution of C.D.C. officials, who picked a benchmark — 10 percent — so high that nobody could reasonably dispute it.

That benchmark “seems to be a huge exaggeration,” as Dr. Muge Cevik, a virologist at the University of St. Andrews, said. In truth, the share of transmission that has occurred outdoors seems to be below 1 percent and may be below 0.1 percent, multiple epidemiologists told me. The rare outdoor transmission that has happened almost all seems to have involved crowded places or close conversation.

Saying that less than 10 percent of Covid transmission occurs outdoors is akin to saying that sharks attack fewer than 20,000 swimmers a year. (The actual worldwide number is around 150.) It’s both true and deceiving.

This isn’t just a gotcha math issue. It is an example of how the C.D.C. is struggling to communicate effectively, and leaving many people confused about what’s truly risky. C.D.C. officials have placed such a high priority on caution that many Americans are bewildered by the agency’s long list of recommendations. Zeynep Tufekci of the University of North Carolina, writing in The Atlantic, called those recommendations “simultaneously too timid and too complicated.”

They continue to treat outdoor transmission as a major risk. The C.D.C. says that unvaccinated people should wear masks in most outdoor settings and vaccinated people should wear them at “large public venues”; summer camps should require children to wear masks virtually “at all times.”

These recommendations would be more grounded in science if anywhere close to 10 percent of Covid transmission were occurring outdoors. But it is not. There is not a single documented Covid infection anywhere in the world from casual outdoor interactions, such as walking past someone on a street or eating at a nearby table.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jsglow on May 11, 2021, 10:24:03 AM

The CDC has become a joke.  The majority of Americans aren't paying any attention to them anymore.  Dr. Walensky is a political hack and her 15 minutes of fame is just about over. It's unfortunate because the politicization of any agency (and I'm not excusing the previous administration) is not in America's best interest.

Yeah, that's my opinion.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 11, 2021, 10:28:28 AM

The CDC should be focusing on one thing.  Getting people vaccinated.  The rest will take care of itself after that happens.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 11, 2021, 11:58:57 AM

My daughter and SIL are visiting from Seattle. On Saturday, we went to a brewery with a large outdoor area, and we were a little surprised that hundreds of people were on the grounds. Probably shouldn't have been, because it was a beautiful weekend day, but all of us have gone out of our way to avoid crowds when possible, so it was still a sight to see.

Aside from the employees, who are required to wear masks, there was not a mask in sight. There was zero social distancing, not in the beer lines, not in the food-truck lines, nowhere.

My wife and daughter were just about to say we had to go when I spotted a table all the way near the back, so we did stay for a couple hours. I am more of the, "I've been vaccinated, and we're outside" mindset, so I wasn't particularly worried.

Two days later, my daughter went to an exercise class at a popular fitness chain facility. Given what she had witnessed Saturday, she was stunned to see that all but one of the participants wore masks the entire time. It was indoors, but there is no mask requirement for this anymore in NC, so wearing masks was entirely the choice of the people.

I guess none of us should have been surprised that those who care enough about their health to go to a Monday morning exercise class would mask up while those who spend their Saturday drinking beer would not (and I'm definitely in the latter group), but I nonetheless found the contrast interesting.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on May 11, 2021, 11:59:11 AM

Quote from: jsglow on May 11, 2021, 10:24:03 AM

The CDC has become a joke.  The majority of Americans aren't paying any attention to them anymore.  Dr. Walensky is a political hack and her 15 minutes of fame is just about over.

Wait, what?  Where does that come from?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 11, 2021, 12:06:49 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 11, 2021, 11:58:57 AM

My daughter and SIL are visiting from Seattle. On Saturday, we went to a brewery with a large outdoor area, and we were a little surprised that hundreds of people were on the grounds. Probably shouldn't have been, because it was a beautiful weekend day, but all of us have gone out of our way to avoid crowds when possible, so it was still a sight to see.

Aside from the employees, who are required to wear masks, there was not a mask in sight. There was zero social distancing, not in the beer lines, not in the food-truck lines, nowhere.

My wife and daughter were just about to say we had to go when I spotted a table all the way near the back, so we did stay for a couple hours. I am more of the, "I've been vaccinated, and we're outside" mindset, so I wasn't particularly worried.

Two days later, my daughter went to an exercise class at a popular fitness chain facility. Given what she had witnessed Saturday, she was stunned to see that all but one of the participants wore masks the entire time. It was indoors, but there is no mask requirement for this anymore in NC, so wearing masks was entirely the choice of the people.

I guess none of us should have been surprised that those who care enough about their health to go to a Monday morning exercise class would mask up while those who spend their Saturday drinking beer would not (and I'm definitely in the latter group), but I nonetheless found the contrast interesting.

You just posted an article that says outdoor transmission is extremely rare - "there is not a single documented Covid infection anywhere in the world from casual outdoor interactions, such as walking past someone on a street or eating at a nearby table." 

I don't think those who were sitting outside didn't "care about their health."  It sounds like they were exercising common sense.  Especially those who have been vaccinated.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 11, 2021, 12:09:02 PM

Quote from: jsglow on May 11, 2021, 10:24:03 AM

The CDC has become a joke.  The majority of Americans aren't paying any attention to them anymore.  Dr. Walensky is a political hack and her 15 minutes of fame is just about over. It's unfortunate because the politicization of any agency (and I'm not excusing the previous administration) is not in America's best interest.

Yeah, that's my opinion.

With all due respect (and I mean that seriously, not sarcastically), but that post is straight from rocket brain’s tiny brain. You should be utterly embarrassed by your post.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: BrewCity83 on May 11, 2021, 12:22:23 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 11, 2021, 12:06:49 PM

You just posted an article that says outdoor transmission is extremely rare - "there is not a single documented Covid infection anywhere in the world from casual outdoor interactions, such as walking past someone on a street or eating at a nearby table." 

I don't think those who were sitting outside didn't "care about their health."  It sounds like they were exercising common sense.  Especially those who have been vaccinated.

Yes, exactly!  They were following the science.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Billy Hoyle on May 11, 2021, 04:53:47 PM

over the summer we were told the protests were ok because they were outside and risk of transmission is extremely rare. Now we need to be careful outdoors as we start opening up, per the CDC.

This is an excellent article I saw over the weekend. It goes along well with an article from a local magazine a restauranteur friend posted focusing on the local restrictions. There is a subset of the population who just can't quit the lockdown measures and I'm sure many are in the "we believe in science" camp.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/05/liberals-covid-19-science-denial-lockdown/618780/

For many progressives, extreme vigilance was in part about opposing Donald Trump. Some of this reaction was born of deeply felt frustration with how he handled the pandemic. It could also be knee-jerk. “If he said, ‘Keep schools open,’ then, well, we’re going to do everything in our power to keep schools closed,” Monica Gandhi, a professor of medicine at UC San Francisco, told me. Gandhi describes herself as “left of left,” but has alienated some of her ideological peers because she has advocated for policies such as reopening schools and establishing a clear timeline for the end of mask mandates. “We went the other way, in an extreme way, against Trump’s politicization,” Gandhi said. Geography and personality may have also contributed to progressives’ caution: Some of the most liberal parts of the country are places where the pandemic hit especially hard, and Hetherington found that the very liberal participants in his survey tended to be the most neurotic.

https://www.pdxmonthly.com/news-and-city-life/2021/05/covid-19-is-finally-waning-can-portland-let-it-go

In other words: somewhere along the way, COVID Zeroism set in around here. The term, as defined by writer Jonathan Chait in New York Magazine, means “an inability to conceive of public-health measures in cost-benefit terms, [in which] the pandemic becomes an enemy that must be destroyed at all costs, and any compromise could lead to death and is therefore unacceptable.” According to this philosophy, the prepandemic world can only really return when risk falls all the way to zero—and if it never gets there, then we’re never going back to unmasked hugs, beers in bars with strangers at our shoulder, and full-time school.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jsglow on May 11, 2021, 06:35:31 PM

Quote from: Jockey on May 11, 2021, 12:09:02 PM

With all due respect (and I mean that seriously, not sarcastically), but that post is straight from rocket brain’s tiny brain. You should be utterly embarrassed by your post.

Not one bit. Again,  my opinion of what they've become doesn't need to be yours. Frankly my view of Dr. Fauci is no different. Which of course doesn't mean that everything they say is wrong, just 'motivated'. I am always very skeptical of 'motivated'. Have a good evening Jockey.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 11, 2021, 07:41:07 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 11, 2021, 12:06:49 PM

You just posted an article that says outdoor transmission is extremely rare - "there is not a single documented Covid infection anywhere in the world from casual outdoor interactions, such as walking past someone on a street or eating at a nearby table." 

I don't think those who were sitting outside didn't "care about their health."  It sounds like they were exercising common sense.  Especially those who have been vaccinated.

Reasonable.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 11, 2021, 08:58:04 PM

Quote from: jsglow on May 11, 2021, 06:35:31 PM

Not one bit. Again,  my opinion of what they've become doesn't need to be yours. Frankly my view of Dr. Fauci is no different. Which of course doesn't mean that everything they say is wrong, just 'motivated'. I am always very skeptical of 'motivated'. Have a good evening Jockey.

You are spot on Glow. The people who should be embarrassed are the CDC, their leaders and sheep who are buying the pseudo science/fear mongering re outdoor transmissions. If they can be this wrong and this deceptive on this issue what credibility do they have on others?

I have no idea if it’s true, but there’s a report out that the teacher’s unions have been advising the CDC on school reopening. If true, just more politics disguised as “following the science”.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 11, 2021, 09:08:34 PM

Quote from: jsglow on May 11, 2021, 06:35:31 PM

Not one bit. Again,  my opinion of what they've become doesn't need to be yours. Frankly my view of Dr. Fauci is no different. Which of course doesn't mean that everything they say is wrong, just 'motivated'. I am always very skeptical of 'motivated'. Have a good evening Jockey.

👏👏

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on May 11, 2021, 09:18:40 PM

Weird, we had 3,000 Americans dying daily 5 months ago, and a lot of y’all were whisper quiet, but all of sudden Joe Biden wears a mask outdoors, or you have a CDC official tripping over their words or sending mixed signals, and y’all found your voice.

Huh.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jsglow on May 11, 2021, 09:43:10 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 11, 2021, 08:58:04 PM

You are spot on Glow. The people who should be embarrassed are the CDC, their leaders and sheep who are buying the pseudo science/fear mongering re outdoor transmissions. If they can be this wrong and this deceptive on this issue what credibility do they have on others?

I have no idea if it’s true, but there’s a report out that the teacher’s unions have been advising the CDC on school reopening. If true, just more politics disguised as “following the science”.

I am totally confident that there are fine scientists there doing a fantastic job, every day.  The problem with government entities, in my view, is that at the top of the house are always appointed politicians most interested in furthering an agenda, whatever that happens to be.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 11, 2021, 10:50:09 PM

Quote from: reinko on May 11, 2021, 09:18:40 PM

Weird, we had 3,000 Americans dying daily 5 months ago, and a lot of y’all were whisper quiet, but all of sudden Joe Biden wears a mask outdoors, or you have a CDC official tripping over their words or sending mixed signals, and y’all found your voice.

Huh.

Hmmm...maybe we had a little thing called a vaccine get injected into 40%+ of the country in those 5 months.  Kinda changes the equation, aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 11, 2021, 11:09:19 PM

Quote from: jsglow on May 11, 2021, 09:43:10 PM

I am totally confident that there are fine scientists there doing a fantastic job, every day.  The problem with government entities, in my view, is that at the top of the house are always appointed politicians most interested in furthering an agenda, whatever that happens to be.

Bingo.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on May 11, 2021, 11:18:21 PM

Quote from: Jockey on May 11, 2021, 12:09:02 PM

With all due respect (and I mean that seriously, not sarcastically), but that post is straight from rocket brain’s tiny brain. You should be utterly embarrassed by your post.

  you are one strange lil feller ain't ya?  your response to glow-no offense but then offend the chit out of him?  for you to tell someone they should be embarrassed is like joe the dog whisperer telling you to wake up...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on May 12, 2021, 01:28:14 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 11, 2021, 08:58:04 PM

You are spot on Glow. The people who should be embarrassed are the CDC, their leaders and sheep who are buying the pseudo science/fear mongering re outdoor transmissions. If they can be this wrong and this deceptive on this issue what credibility do they have on others?

I have no idea if it’s true, but there’s a report out that the teacher’s unions have been advising the CDC on school reopening. If true, just more politics disguised as “following the science”.

I have no idea if it's true, but let me propagate a rumor, only a rumor, that supports my point and might be totally false.

Also, the CDC should be embarrassed.  They are sheep, and have no idea how much I like to believe rumors.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 12, 2021, 06:09:35 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on May 12, 2021, 01:28:14 AM

I have no idea if it's true, but let me propagate a rumor, only a rumor, that supports my point and might be totally false.

Also, the CDC should be embarrassed.  They are sheep, and have no idea how much I like to believe rumors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_burn_centers_in_the_United_States

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on May 12, 2021, 06:22:05 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 12, 2021, 06:09:35 AM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_burn_centers_in_the_United_States

LOL

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 12, 2021, 07:09:02 AM

 :-[

Quote from: jsglow on May 11, 2021, 09:43:10 PM

I am totally confident that there are fine scientists there doing a fantastic job, every day.  The problem with government entities, in my view, is that at the top of the house are always appointed politicians most interested in furthering an agenda, whatever that happens to be.

The CDC was independent prior to the last administration.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 12, 2021, 07:53:30 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 11, 2021, 08:58:04 PM

You are spot on Glow. The people who should be embarrassed are the CDC, their leaders and sheep who are buying the pseudo science/fear mongering re outdoor transmissions. If they can be this wrong and this deceptive on this issue what credibility do they have on others?

I have no idea if it’s true, but there’s a report out that the teacher’s unions have been advising the CDC on school reopening. If true, just more politics disguised as “following the science”.

You live in a country that had a worse death rate than many developing nations, and you think the problem was overly strict guidelines offered by the CDC?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 12, 2021, 08:22:59 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 12, 2021, 07:53:30 AM

You live in a country that had a worse death rate than many developing nations, and you think the problem was overly strict guidelines offered by the CDC?

Not THE problem. A problem, especially when the guidelines are based on information they know is misleading.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 12, 2021, 09:08:26 AM

My favorite part about the American zeitgeist is that once someone makes a mistake once they're forever wrong on everything and their credibility is shot.

I guess we live in the society we deserve.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on May 12, 2021, 09:14:11 AM

Fauci should resign. Of course that power crazed idiot won't because his 15 minutes of fame then goes away. Sit back, write the book, and make millions, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: naginiF on May 12, 2021, 09:18:30 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on May 12, 2021, 09:14:11 AM

Fauci should resign. Of course that power crazed idiot won't because his 15 minutes of fame then goes away. Sit back, write the book, and make millions, hey?

Yep, his master plan was to be a civil servant for 50+ years managing infectious diseases and helping our country prepare/deal with them for his 15 minutes of fame and a book deal. Gotta respect his long game.

He's not perfect and clearly in the bizarre landscape that was 2020 he made some mistakes but the conspiracy crap is really something else.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 12, 2021, 09:37:49 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on May 12, 2021, 09:14:11 AM

Fauci should resign. Of course that power crazed idiot won't because his 15 minutes of fame then goes away. Sit back, write the book, and make millions, hey?

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 12, 2021, 09:08:26 AM

My favorite part about the American zeitgeist is that once someone makes a mistake once they're forever wrong on everything and their credibility is shot.

I guess we live in the society we deserve.

By your logic, Doc, you should probably turn in your dentistry license and write a book.  You've had your share of hot takes over the last year.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on May 12, 2021, 09:41:05 AM

I’m not a fan of the Chicago Teachers Union, ( can’t comment on any others) and they certainly shouldn’t control any decision-making, but their input on the practical side of things could be useful, as the teachers themselves know what actually happens as opposed to what the powers that be think is happening. When they renovated my church years ago we wished they would have consulted with the hospitality volunteers at some point  as we could have pointed out a few things from a practical point of view.

And yes the idea that Fauci wants to go out bd make millions is absurd, or that he wants to prolong things so he appears on television more.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 12, 2021, 09:44:04 AM

Quote from: jsglow on May 11, 2021, 09:43:10 PM

I am totally confident that there are fine scientists there doing a fantastic job, every day.  The problem with government entities, in my view, is that at the top of the house are always appointed politicians most interested in furthering an agenda, whatever that happens to be.

We HAD a CDC that was run by the White House. It was ordered to lie by the White House. it had people fired by that White House for not towing the line. Yet that didn’t bother you a bit.

Now we have an expert in charge. The scientists are making the decisions based on their lifetimes of working in the field. And now you are bothered.

Following the science must really piss you guys off.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on May 12, 2021, 09:53:27 AM

Quote from: naginiF on May 12, 2021, 09:18:30 AM

Yep, his master plan was to be a civil servant for 50+ years managing infectious diseases and helping our country prepare/deal with them for his 15 minutes of fame and a book deal. Gotta respect his long game.

He's not perfect and clearly in the bizarre landscape that was 2020 he made some mistakes but the conspiracy crap is really something else.

Maybe I’m naive, but I feel part of his position is to be overly cautious and focus on the risks. He’s supposed to be providing risks and recommendations on how to stop the spread of the disease. Politicians and individuals then take those risks and weigh them against a multitude of factors.

Isn’t making a hypothesis and then re-evaluating as new information presents itself part of the scientific process? This whole idea of a gotcha because he was wrong on something in April 2020 is silly in my opinion. It was new to everyone.

I feel we have moved to attacking the science and Fauci as a way to rile up political bases and provide commentary. He may enjoy the limelight and that’s skewing his recommendations. I’d like to think not, but I may be naive.

Talking about masks into summer of 2022 and all that might have been a way to stay relevant. But I would guess if we truly were trying to eradicate the virus, that might be what we have to do. However, I think the general consensus is if we get an annual shot and it’s equivalent to the flu, that’s a tremendous win.
 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: naginiF on May 12, 2021, 10:02:14 AM

Quote from: cheebs09 on May 12, 2021, 09:53:27 AM

Maybe I’m naive, but I feel part of his position is to be overly cautious and focus on the risks. He’s supposed to be providing risks and recommendations on how to stop the spread of the disease. Politicians and individuals then take those risks and weigh them against a multitude of factors.

Isn’t making a hypothesis and then re-evaluating as new information presents itself part of the scientific process? This whole idea of a gotcha because he was wrong on something in April 2020 is silly in my opinion. It was new to everyone.

I feel we have moved to attacking the science and Fauci as a way to rile up political bases and provide commentary. He may enjoy the limelight and that’s skewing his recommendations. I’d like to think not, but I may be naive.

Talking about masks into summer of 2022 and all that might have been a way to stay relevant. But I would guess if we truly were trying to eradicate the virus, that might be what we have to do. However, I think the general consensus is if we get an annual shot and it’s equivalent to the flu, that’s a tremendous win.

I'm in agreement with everything you say plus Hards point that people are holding him to a standard they couldn't possibly meet themselves. People are saying he's political but if the politicians had listened to him, instead of making his/CDC input political, for the last 18 months there's no argument that we'd be in a MUCH better position health wise and economically wise.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on May 12, 2021, 10:23:22 AM

Quote from: cheebs09 on May 12, 2021, 09:53:27 AM

Isn’t making a hypothesis and then re-evaluating as new information presents itself part of the scientific process? This whole idea of a gotcha because he was wrong on something in April 2020 is silly in my opinion. It was new to everyone.

Right. This is how science works.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 12, 2021, 12:50:17 PM

Quote from: naginiF on May 12, 2021, 10:02:14 AM

I'm in agreement with everything you say plus Hards point that people are holding him to a standard they couldn't possibly meet themselves. People are saying he's political but if the politicians had listened to him, instead of making his/CDC input political, for the last 18 months there's no argument that we'd be in a MUCH better position health wise and economically wise.

You can’t be serious?!?!  We did listen to him on not wearing masks in the beginning (oops), we didn’t listen to him on locking down travel from China (thank goodness), we did listen when he recommended lockdowns, he was part of the team that drafted the 15-30 days to slow the spread, social distance, etc etc.

What exactly did we not listen too?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 12, 2021, 12:53:00 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 12, 2021, 07:53:30 AM

You live in a country that had a worse death rate than many developing nations, and you think the problem was overly strict guidelines offered by the CDC?

Come on.  You think developing countries were testing and identifying cases at the rate we were?

Like Donnie said of you don’t test (bad idea) then you won’t have as many positive cases and therefore as many c19 related death data.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on May 12, 2021, 01:03:11 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 12, 2021, 12:50:17 PM

You can’t be serious?!?!  We did listen to him on not wearing masks in the beginning (oops), we didn’t listen to him on locking down travel from China (thank goodness), we did listen when he recommended lockdowns, he was part of the team that drafted the 15-30 days to slow the spread, social distance, etc etc.

What exactly did we not listen too?

Hello, this is 2021 not April 2020.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 12, 2021, 01:07:00 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 12, 2021, 12:50:17 PM

You can’t be serious?!?!  We did listen to him on not wearing masks in the beginning (oops),

Dude, what?  After he reversed course on that pretty quickly, we didn't listen to him as much as we should have, and we had the biggest surge the following fall.

Some of you people are hell bent on rewriting history.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 12, 2021, 01:10:17 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 12, 2021, 01:07:00 PM

Dude, what?  After he reversed course on that pretty quickly, we didn't listen to him as much as we should have, and we had the biggest surge the following fall.

Some of you people are hell bent on rewriting history.

Of course he reversed course but we initially listened and then again listened when he changed his tune. 

I cant think (doesn’t mean there isn’t an example) of one major thing we didn’t listen to him on.  Compliance to what he was saying was our own fault and i believe our own choice to make those mistakes.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on May 12, 2021, 01:24:28 PM

I think the issue is there is a balance between infectious disease experts/epidemiology and sensible public policy.  The former has, more or less, goal of completely eliminating disease and its spread and limiting as much risk as possible.  So they are going to speak to that and advise based on that.  Now that is likely not the most reasonable public policy, expecting everyone to mask up or lockdown until its eradicated or minuscule levels.  But if you ask people like Fauci, thats what they will advise on.  My issue isn't so much with him, but constantly shoving a mic in his face daily, and then throwing out bombastic headlines or recommendations as a result.  Same with guys like the UPENN medical expert earlier in 2020 who was recommending lockdowns lasting 6 months or more.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on May 12, 2021, 01:25:18 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 12, 2021, 01:10:17 PM

Of course he reversed course but we initially listened and then again listened when he changed his tune. 

I cant think (doesn’t mean there isn’t an example) of one major thing we didn’t listen to him on.  Compliance to what he was saying was our own fault and i believe our own choice to make those mistakes.

Did we really? Because... uh... <gestures broadly at how masks became a front of the suicidal culture war over the last 9+ months>

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 12, 2021, 01:33:45 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on May 12, 2021, 01:24:28 PM

I think the issue is there is a balance between infectious disease experts/epidemiology and sensible public policy.  The former has, more or less, goal of completely eliminating disease and its spread and limiting as much risk as possible.  So they are going to speak to that and advise based on that.  Now that is likely not the most reasonable public policy, expecting everyone to mask up or lockdown until its eradicated or minuscule levels.  But if you ask people like Fauci, thats what they will advise on.  My issue isn't so much with him, but constantly shoving a mic in his face daily, and then throwing out bombastic headlines or recommendations as a result.  Same with guys like the UPENN medical expert earlier in 2020 who was recommending lockdowns lasting 6 months or more.

Good stuff wags

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 12, 2021, 01:35:30 PM

Quote from: jficke13 on May 12, 2021, 01:25:18 PM

Did we really? Because... uh... <gestures broadly at how masks became a front of the suicidal culture war over the last 9+ months>

We listened and tried to drive compliance the best we could.  Every business, park, public space I can think of had mask required signs on the doors.  CDC and federal guidelines called for mask it.  When there was a shortage early on the administration during a press conference suggested the use of a scarf  or other material covering on the face.

I acknowledge 20-30% of America didn’t listen but knew they weren’t following guidelines when they decided to not wear a mask.  Not sure what you can do about that but to the point of listening to Fauci, we for the most part did.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 12, 2021, 01:36:04 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on May 12, 2021, 01:33:45 PM

Good stuff wags

Agreed. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on May 12, 2021, 01:54:18 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 12, 2021, 01:35:30 PM

We listened and tried to drive compliance the best we could.  Every business, park, public space I can think of had mask required signs on the doors.  CDC and federal guidelines called for mask it.  When there was a shortage early on the administration during a press conference suggested the use of a scarf  or other material covering on the face.

I acknowledge 20-30% of America didn’t listen but knew they weren’t following guidelines when they decided to not wear a mask.  Not sure what you can do about that but to the point of listening to Fauci, we for the most part did.

Maybe you did, but there was and remains an active group of people who have been attacking him from the jump. That group spoke directly to the 20-30% of America that "didn't listen" (a number that seems low). There is a pretty obvious throughline about how that group developed, and it has nothing to do with people listening to him.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 12, 2021, 03:07:53 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 12, 2021, 09:08:26 AM

My favorite part about the American zeitgeist is that once someone makes a mistake once they're forever wrong on everything and their credibility is shot.

I guess we live in the society we deserve.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 13, 2021, 01:09:14 PM

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1392903574879932416?s=20

The Washington Post
@washingtonpost
·
3m
CDC says fully vaccinated Americans no longer need masks indoors or outdoors in most cases, paving way for society’s full reopening

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 13, 2021, 01:38:02 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 13, 2021, 01:09:14 PM

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1392903574879932416?s=20

The Washington Post
@washingtonpost
·
3m
CDC says fully vaccinated Americans no longer need masks indoors or outdoors in most cases, paving way for society’s full reopening

And full chaos when non vaccinated people can claim to be vaccinated. It's gonna be an exciting time

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 13, 2021, 02:05:40 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 13, 2021, 01:09:14 PM

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1392903574879932416?s=20

The Washington Post
@washingtonpost
·
3m
CDC says fully vaccinated Americans no longer need masks indoors or outdoors in most cases, paving way for society’s full reopening

Time to bust out the razor!!!!! 

This is something long overdue and worth celebrating.  Stadiums will be full be end of June and Fiserv will be rocking shoulder to shoulder next year.

I applaud the CDC for making this announcement and following the science.  Not sure why today but I’m not complaining cause we’ve finally made it, congrats scoop!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 13, 2021, 02:52:33 PM

This is the time when I can see the value of vaccine cards/passports.   I flash a card when I go into Costco   Now I could flash a second and go in mask free.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 13, 2021, 03:03:27 PM

Anyone heard from Goo lately?I noticed he has been MIA for a while.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on May 13, 2021, 04:53:23 PM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on May 13, 2021, 01:38:02 PM

And full chaos when non vaccinated people can claim to be vaccinated. It's gonna be an exciting time

And I will have no sympathy for those people if they get sick.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on May 13, 2021, 06:14:30 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on May 13, 2021, 04:53:23 PM

And I will have no sympathy for those people if they get sick.

AMDG eh?

Feel like so many people, on both sides of the aisle (especially on this board), are just becoming so entrenched in their position, they are kinda missing the bigger point of just genuine compassion for one another.  I have certainly flown my political leanings flag many a times on this board, but on this board (and on the Politics board RIP, not really) I have read.

~Cheering and advocating death penalties to be broadcast on PPV
~People who didnt follow the rules by cops when getting pulled over, "getting what they deserved" after being shot by police
~No sympathy (and in some cases) for people get what they deserve when they contract and perhaps die of COVID

I know life aint perfect, but cmon
 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 13, 2021, 06:31:00 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on May 13, 2021, 04:53:23 PM

And I will have no sympathy for those people if they get sick.

You better duck. I've been attacked numerous times for saying the same.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jsglow on May 13, 2021, 06:57:00 PM

Quote from: Jockey on May 12, 2021, 09:44:04 AM

We HAD a CDC that was run by the White House. It was ordered to lie by the White House. it had people fired by that White House for not towing the line. Yet that didn’t bother you a bit.

Now we have an expert in charge. The scientists are making the decisions based on their lifetimes of working in the field. And now you are bothered.

Following the science must really piss you guys off.

Jockey, you don't know me at all.  Thanks and good evening.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 13, 2021, 07:02:48 PM

Quote from: Jockey on May 13, 2021, 06:31:00 PM

You better duck. I've been attacked numerous times for saying the same.

Not quite.  You don’t stop at sick.  You say you wish/prefer they die

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 13, 2021, 08:17:39 PM

Quote from: reinko on May 13, 2021, 06:14:30 PM

Speaking only for myself, I have:
~No sympathy (and in some cases) for people get what they deserve when they contract and perhaps die of COVID because they refused to wear masks, refused to social distance, called COVID a hoax, gathered in large groups indoors and maskless, called the vaccines unsafe, and refused to get vaccinated, thus extending the pandemic while putting other people at risk because they are selfish a-holes who had no concept of what being a responsible and patriotic citizen entailed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: reinko on May 13, 2021, 09:33:15 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on May 13, 2021, 08:17:39 PM

That’s cute, and trust me it’s not political.  I disagree, Im angry, Im ashamed at so many Americans for not doing the what I think is right (and backed by science), but I truly think there is a line where people flip and say, well “F them, they get what they deserve”

This type attitude, IMHO, is counterproductive, and not aligned with the value I believe in.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 13, 2021, 09:53:19 PM

 Went to grocery store tonight, albeit late so not very busy but was great to see so many smiling maskless faces.

Missed that non-verbal connection with strangers that a slight smile and head nod brings.  It was weird seeing the few who were wearing masks and not knowing if they were anti-vax or anti-science (maybe both)?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 13, 2021, 10:16:29 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 13, 2021, 09:53:19 PM

Went to grocery store tonight, albeit late so not very busy but was great to see so many smiling maskless faces.

Missed that non-verbal connection with strangers that a slight smile and head nod brings.  It was weird seeing the few who were wearing masks and not knowing if they were anti-vax or anti-science (maybe both)?

Our grocery stores still have signs up saying that masks are required. Maybe those people wearing masks were just anti-douche bag?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 14, 2021, 04:35:35 AM

Trolling from earlier aside this is the a smart way to interpret the guidance in my opinion. 

COVID is getting crushed in my state and it’s time to start removing these restrictions and finding a way to go from 70% vaccinated to 85+.  It’s a great way to do it…

https://twitter.com/scottgottliebmd/status/1392934936659779585?s=21 (https://twitter.com/scottgottliebmd/status/1392934936659779585?s=21)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 14, 2021, 04:59:51 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 14, 2021, 04:35:35 AM

Trolling from earlier aside this is the a smart way to interpret the guidance in my opinion. 

COVID is getting crushed in my state and it’s time to start removing these restrictions and finding a way to go from 70% vaccinated to 85+.  It’s a great way to do it…

https://twitter.com/scottgottliebmd/status/1392934936659779585?s=21 (https://twitter.com/scottgottliebmd/status/1392934936659779585?s=21)

My main man Scotty knocking it out of the park again with this commentary!! 

Dude has been so good, so consistent.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 14, 2021, 05:21:04 AM

Need vaccine verification

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 14, 2021, 05:23:07 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 13, 2021, 09:53:19 PM

Went to grocery store tonight, albeit late so not very busy but was great to see so many smiling maskless faces.

Missed that non-verbal connection with strangers that a slight smile and head nod brings.  It was weird seeing the few who were wearing masks and not knowing if they were anti-vax or anti-science (maybe both)?

Grocery didn't require/ask for masks still?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 14, 2021, 07:06:41 AM

That is a bad grocery.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 14, 2021, 07:43:22 AM

Look, it's basically over.  Sure masks will be required in certain circumstances, but by and large society will be putting pressure on businesses that continue with universal masking policies or those policies will largely be ignored because management is tired of enforcing it.

And it is very doubtful that vaccine passports will be used in any significant manner.

This is the path we are on.  My guess is that we won't know if this was a smart idea until the fall when we retreat back inside (or in the summer in the south), but by July 4, I think most people will be done with masks in most situations.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 14, 2021, 08:05:33 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on May 14, 2021, 05:23:07 AM

Grocery didn't require/ask for masks still?

They haven’t been actively enforcing it for awhile.  I’d been wearing it along with 95% of other shoppers even though vaccinated for awhile but now that the CDC is behind taking the mask off I’ll follow their guidance.  And based off last nights experience I don’t appear to be in the minority. 

If an employee of a store anywhere asks me to put one on I will.  If they don’t I wont’t, just following the science.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 14, 2021, 08:06:01 AM

Quote from: tower912 on May 14, 2021, 07:06:41 AM

That is a bad grocery.

It’s a great grocery store!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 14, 2021, 09:40:02 AM

CDC’s U-Turn Puts Business in ‘Damned If You Do’ Bind
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-13/cdc-s-u-turn-puts-business-in-damned-if-you-do-or-don-t-bind?srnd=premium

Home Depot and others aren’t immediately relaxing mask rules , Retail workers have faced risks enforcing company mandates

The revision creates new challenges for retail workers in particular, many of whom have had to confront uncooperative customers while enforcing mask policies. Many retail and restaurant chains adopted mask requirements for customers in the early stages of the pandemic, and some companies have offered bonuses to frontline workers in acknowledgment of the health and safety risks they have faced.

Automakers Ford Motor Co., General Motors Co. and Stellantis NV, the former Fiat Chrysler, all said they’re keeping mask policies in place in their facilities for now. “We will review the latest guidance from the CDC and await guidance from OSHA, which has jurisdiction over workplaces,” GM said in a statement Thursday.

Retail workers still need protection, since “they have no way of knowing whether customers who are not wearing masks have been vaccinated,” said Stuart Appelbaum, president of the Retail, Wholesale and Department Store Union, or RWDSU. “These workers, many of whom are essential, may be exposed both to the virus and to unnecessary stress. We must encourage customers in high trafficked areas to continue wearing masks.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 14, 2021, 09:42:16 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on May 14, 2021, 09:40:02 AM

CDC’s U-Turn Puts Business in ‘Damned If You Do’ Bind
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-13/cdc-s-u-turn-puts-business-in-damned-if-you-do-or-don-t-bind?srnd=premium

Home Depot and others aren’t immediately relaxing mask rules , Retail workers have faced risks enforcing company mandates

The revision creates new challenges for retail workers in particular, many of whom have had to confront uncooperative customers while enforcing mask policies. Many retail and restaurant chains adopted mask requirements for customers in the early stages of the pandemic, and some companies have offered bonuses to frontline workers in acknowledgment of the health and safety risks they have faced.

Automakers Ford Motor Co., General Motors Co. and Stellantis NV, the former Fiat Chrysler, all said they’re keeping mask policies in place in their facilities for now. “We will review the latest guidance from the CDC and await guidance from OSHA, which has jurisdiction over workplaces,” GM said in a statement Thursday.

Retail workers still need protection, since “they have no way of knowing whether customers who are not wearing masks have been vaccinated,” said Stuart Appelbaum, president of the Retail, Wholesale and Department Store Union, or RWDSU. “These workers, many of whom are essential, may be exposed both to the virus and to unnecessary stress. We must encourage customers in high trafficked areas to continue wearing masks.”

Good luck.  Let's see how long that lasts.

Oh and retail workers can get protection via vaccination.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 14, 2021, 03:21:15 PM

https://mobile.twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1393278011332612107

What do they know that we don’t know 🤔

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 14, 2021, 03:26:22 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 14, 2021, 03:21:15 PM

https://mobile.twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1393278011332612107

What do they know that we don’t know 🤔

Government agencies are full of regular people, that represent a cross section of society. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on May 14, 2021, 04:26:51 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 14, 2021, 03:21:15 PM

https://mobile.twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1393278011332612107

What do they know that we don’t know 🤔

How can we trust Fauci - he was wrong about masks

Here's the full context -and the real answer is they don't know percentages because they don't require i, and can only track it if employees voluntarily report their vaccine status.  My company asks us, but it's optional to report.  And 60% is in line with the general population at this point.  So I'd guess *most* CDC and FDA employees know about the same amount as us (at least those of us that keep up on information).

https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/dr-fauci-cdc-director-testify-before-senate-on-covid-19-guidelines-transcript

Quote

Senator Burr: (02:25:51)
Okay. This question, I’m going to go to Dr. Fauci, Dr. Marks, and Dr. Walensky. What percentage of the employees in your institute, your center, or your agency, of your employees, has been vaccinated?

Dr. Anthony Fauci: (02:26:13)
I’m not 100% sure, Senator, but I think it’s probably a little bit more than half, probably around 60%.

Senator Burr: (02:26:19)
Dr. Marks?

Dr. Peter Marks: (02:26:21)
I can’t tell you the exact number, but it’s probably in the same range. Some people vaccinated at our facility, and others outside of the facility.

Senator Burr: (02:26:30)
Dr. Walensky?

Dr. Rochelle Walensky: (02:26:31)
We’re encouraging our employees to get vaccinated. We’ve been doing town halls and education seminars. Our staff have the option to report their vaccination status, but as you understand, the federal government is not requiring it, so we do not know.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: naginiF on May 15, 2021, 08:00:05 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 13, 2021, 09:53:19 PM

Went to grocery store tonight, albeit late so not very busy but was great to see so many smiling maskless faces.

Missed that non-verbal connection with strangers that a slight smile and head nod brings.  It was weird seeing the few who were wearing masks and not knowing if they were anti-vax or anti-science (maybe both)?

Less than 24hrs after the CDC changed its guidelines, when both local government and individual retailers were adjusting their policies, and after 14 months of mask mandates it was 'weird' seeing people in masks and you cast doubt on their motives? And suddenly the mask wearers were in the minority?

Your theatre is both transparent and comical. (and that's assuming you live in a rural community)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 15, 2021, 09:10:33 PM

Quote from: naginiF on May 15, 2021, 08:00:05 PM

Less than 24hrs after the CDC changed its guidelines, when both local government and individual retailers were adjusting their policies, and after 14 months of mask mandates it was 'weird' seeing people in masks and you cast doubt on their motives? And suddenly the mask wearers were in the minority?

Your theatre is both transparent and comical. (and that's assuming you live in a rural community)

You ok?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jsglow on May 15, 2021, 09:43:06 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 14, 2021, 09:42:16 AM

Good luck.  Let's see how long that lasts.

Oh and retail workers can get protection via vaccination.

Exactly!  If you want to be protected, get vaccinated.  If not, assume the risk.  It's really that simple.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on May 15, 2021, 10:14:16 PM

Except for the people who either can’t take the vaccine for health reasons or for whom it’s less effective as they may be taking immuno- suppressive drugs. I have already seen posts on TripAdvisor from people trying to decide what to do.
On the other hand there is a guy who planned a multi-family trip to Hawaii under their current guidelines who is now saying he will cancel if they don’t remove those same guidelines - so he was good to go with those guidelines before but isn’t now, which makes no sense at all.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on May 16, 2021, 05:13:22 AM

Quote from: jsglow on May 15, 2021, 09:43:06 PM

Exactly!  If you want to be protected, get vaccinated.  If not, assume the risk.  It's really that simple.

That's it in a nutshell, Pa. I've had several discussions over the past couple of weeks with folks who refuse the vaccine. Their stance centers around skepticism and not wanting to be guinea pigs. Unreal, aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jsglow on May 16, 2021, 08:06:37 AM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on May 15, 2021, 10:14:16 PM

Except for the people who either can’t take the vaccine for health reasons or for whom it’s less effective as they may be taking immuno- suppressive drugs. I have already seen posts on TripAdvisor from people trying to decide what to do.
On the other hand there is a guy who planned a multi-family trip to Hawaii under their current guidelines who is now saying he will cancel if they don’t remove those same guidelines - so he was good to go with those guidelines before but isn’t now, which makes no sense at all.

Of course.  And those folks have needed to take extra precautions in all aspects of their lives forever.  We don't unnecessarily burden 330 million Americans however.

As to the idiot who is cancelling his Hawaii vaca plans, go for it.  He's just 'protesting' and is of no interest to me.  Chick and I had a great time by the way.  8-)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 16, 2021, 08:32:14 AM

The best thing for public health at this point is getting higher levels of vaccination.  Supply is now > demand and there are active efforts to meet people in their communities to offer vaccines. Additionally states that have accelerated vaccines are ready for this.  Finally level of spread is getting crushed. 

I know this may seem abrupt or scary and people need to warm up to it, but it’s time. 

Here is a helpful Twitter thread trying to argue against the various criticisms

https://twitter.com/dleonhardt/status/1393243493473079299?s=21 (https://twitter.com/dleonhardt/status/1393243493473079299?s=21)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on May 16, 2021, 06:43:05 PM

yes they are.  it seems to be a regional thing.
    weeks ago, i would estimate 30% of the customers in walmart(mukwonago) were UNmasked.  probably more in the adjacent home depot.  o'reilly's in waukesha-no masks and employee said whatever you feel comfortable with. he was behind a plexiglass booth. a nearby grocery store has been essentially maskless(customers) for months.  those who wanted to mask(less than 50%) wore a mask.

  i'm not arguing what is right/wrong.  once again, it seemed to be a regional thing

understand, we had one known infection coming into/out of our office.  out of 12 employees, 1 confirmed case and she(verified) got it from her mom who is a nurse at a nearby hospital.  people respected if they didn't feel well or had come into contact with someone who either was exposed to the virus and/or a known symptomatic or positive tested person.  we asked all the same questions hospitals asked, took temperatures, masks, shields, plexiglass at reception, air purifiers, etc etc in other words, we were not "super spreaders" by any means

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 16, 2021, 08:47:19 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 16, 2021, 08:32:14 AM

The best thing for public health at this point is getting higher levels of vaccination.  Supply is now > demand and there are active efforts to meet people in their communities to offer vaccines. Additionally states that have accelerated vaccines are ready for this.  Finally level of spread is getting crushed. 

I know this may seem abrupt or scary and people need to warm up to it, but it’s time. 

Here is a helpful Twitter thread trying to argue against the various criticisms

https://twitter.com/dleonhardt/status/1393243493473079299?s=21 (https://twitter.com/dleonhardt/status/1393243493473079299?s=21)

It was good until this: "Plus, there is no clear reason to believe these new guidelines will actually cause the unvaccinated to stop wearing masks. "
Reading my locals FB feed, Next Door, etc., as well as watching the news interviews shows that the anti-vaxxers, hoaxers, et. al. are ripping their masks off the minute this was announced and are proudly strutting through stores maskless and unvaccinated.
To believe other behavior is foolish and naive and shows one has not paid attention in the last year+.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 17, 2021, 04:31:54 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on May 16, 2021, 08:47:19 PM

It was good until this: "Plus, there is no clear reason to believe these new guidelines will actually cause the unvaccinated to stop wearing masks. "
Reading my locals FB feed, Next Door, etc., as well as watching the news interviews shows that the anti-vaxxers, hoaxers, et. al. are ripping their masks off the minute this was announced and are proudly strutting through stores maskless and unvaccinated.
To believe other behavior is foolish and naive and shows one has not paid attention in the last year+.

Right. But the alternative is what?  Have them go unvaccinated for <insert time here> and have them rip off their masks then.

Maybe they could have waited until the end of the school year at most. But this was inevitable at some point.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 17, 2021, 08:50:00 AM

Quote from: Marquette Fan on April 05, 2021, 08:15:08 PM

Texas Rangers host a sellout crowd for Opening Day with no Covid-19 restrictions.  According to the article I read it was also the first time attendance restrictions were not in effect for any major sporting event in the United States:

https://www.fox4news.com/sports/texas-rangers-host-near-sellout-crowd-for-2021-home-opener-with-no-covid-19-attendance-restrictions

Definitely not something I'd feel comfortable attending but it obviously wasn't a concern for a lot of people.

Texas opening up back in April had no significant impact on Covid rates in Texas. 

https://www.nber.org/papers/w28804

But it didn't have much economic impact either.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 17, 2021, 09:28:46 AM

Again, many sad stories about "long-haulers" ...

According to a study published in the Annals of Clinical and Translational Neurology, even after the acute infection cleared, an overwhelming number of people who contracted the virus but who were never hospitalized report a string of neurological problems including brain fog, fatigue, dizziness, headaches, numbness and tingling.

Brain fog is the most common.

Commonly called post-COVID syndrome or long COVID, the National Institutes of Health only recently dubbed this condition as “Post-Acute Sequelae of SARS-CoV-2 infection,” or PASC.

Experts are still working to define it. Some consider patients to have the syndrome if they continue to have symptoms four to six weeks after their initial infection resolves; others say 12 weeks.

The seriousness of SARS-CoV-2 has been discounted among some because of what they say is a relatively low mortality rate, even as that death rate is actually orders of magnitude higher than for the seasonal flu.

Now, there is more evidence of people who didn’t even have severe cases of COVID being waylaid by this lingering, life-changing disease up to a year later.

A study published by researchers from the University of Washington suggests that 10 to 30 percent of COVID patients have one or more symptoms of long COVID, including intense fatigue, chest pain, brain fog, shortness of breath and loss of taste and smell.

That means that in the United States, where there are more than 32 million cases of COVID-19, as many as 9.6 million people may still be experiencing long haul symptoms after they no longer test positive for the virus.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 17, 2021, 10:38:18 AM

My sense of smell is still messed up 6 months in.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 17, 2021, 11:04:33 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 17, 2021, 04:31:54 AM

Right. But the alternative is what? Have them go unvaccinated for <insert time here> and have them rip off their masks then.

Maybe they could have waited until the end of the school year at most. But this was inevitable at some point.

Other than the delay you mentioned so that 12-15 year olds could get safely vaxxed, I am not sure of the answer. How to fix stupid is not an easy task.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 17, 2021, 11:14:42 AM

Quote from: tower912 on May 17, 2021, 10:38:18 AM

My sense of smell is still messed up 6 months in.

Sorry to hear that, tower. I know quite a few folks who have been affected for many months, in some cases almost a year. Loss of smell, loss of taste, terrible headaches, lethargy and rapid heartbeat have been the main maladies.

Damn this virus!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 17, 2021, 12:51:19 PM

Quote from: MU82 on May 17, 2021, 11:14:42 AM

Sorry to hear that, tower. I know quite a few folks who have been affected for many months, in some cases almost a year. Loss of smell, loss of taste, terrible headaches, lethargy and rapid heartbeat have been the main maladies.

Damn this virus!

According to my wife, I always had lousy taste anyway.  Except of course, when I chose her.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 20, 2021, 06:38:05 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 17, 2021, 04:31:54 AM

Right. But the alternative is what?  Have them go unvaccinated for <insert time here> and have them rip off their masks then.

Maybe they could have waited until the end of the school year at most. But this was inevitable at some point.

Exactly.  Personally, I don't see the US vaccine numbers approaching 'true' herd immunity.  And a lot of the people who didn't get vaccinated (because of their feelings) will feel justified in their decision.  The only way we get to 'true' herd immunity is if there is a spike in the fall and the remaining vaccine hesitant people hear that there is full approval for the vaccine.

Otherwise, we're still on my timeline of everything basically open by Memorial Day.  Even Dane County is eliminating emergency orders on 6/2.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 23, 2021, 02:38:46 PM

https://twitter.com/Anthony/status/1396544753194373121?s=19

Let's let this play out as WSJ also reported WMDs in Iraq

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 24, 2021, 07:45:47 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/SquawkCNBC/status/1396797176647278598

The idea it was a lab leak is becoming fairly mainstream at this point.  Tom Cotton, Pompeo, and Trump look to be correct when they were saying this a year ago.

Fauci.....again wrong

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on May 24, 2021, 07:50:14 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 24, 2021, 07:45:47 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/SquawkCNBC/status/1396797176647278598

The idea it was a lab leak is becoming fairly mainstream at this point.  Tom Cotton, Pompeo, and Trump look to be correct when they were saying this a year ago.

Fauci.....again wrong

Gray area attack?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 24, 2021, 07:57:55 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 24, 2021, 07:45:47 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/SquawkCNBC/status/1396797176647278598

The idea it was a lab leak is becoming fairly mainstream at this point.  Tom Cotton, Pompeo, and Trump look to be correct when they were saying this a year ago.

Fauci.....again wrong

Yeah, and I can't believe Fauci told his terrorists to "LIBERATE" Michigan, Minnesota and Virginia on April 17, 2020, just 18 hours after he presented guidelines and benchmarks for re-opening their economies ... or that Fauci sent out his son-in-law to declare victory over COVID-19 on April 29, 2020 ... or that Fauci repeatedly held no-mask, no-social-distancing, super-spreader rallies against the advice of his own people (RIP Herman Cain). Damn Fauci!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 24, 2021, 08:03:55 AM

Fauci didn't discuss injecting bleach.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 24, 2021, 08:16:15 AM

Fauci lied. People died.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 24, 2021, 08:22:24 AM

Nice reboot of the old Bush-Cheney mantra.   I had forgotten about that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on May 24, 2021, 08:43:34 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 24, 2021, 08:16:15 AM

Fauci lied. People died.

he could have been A LOT more help than he put forth.  this guy knew more than he led us to believe depending on which way the wind was blowing  he could have been an international hero if he wasn't so wishy-washy.  he knew what was going on, but provided cover for as long as he could.  especially thru january 20

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 24, 2021, 08:46:47 AM

His former boss wanted to fire him for telling as much truth as he did.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 24, 2021, 08:48:28 AM

Fauci didn’t lie. Fauci didn’t know everything.  He’s a public health figure who was right more than he was wrong. That’s all.

Has he been lifted up too much as the voice of authority?  Yep.

Has he been vilified by other cause they want to excuse the poor presidential leadership in place last year?  No doubt.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Lens on May 24, 2021, 09:07:23 AM

Fauci is so f'n incompetent...he should have been FIRED.  I don't get how he kept a job for the past 4 years.  I hate that Presidents are stuck with federal employees and don't have any say in who works for the federal government.  I know that if DJT was able to he would have rid America of that fool.  Why is American government set up so poorly, why can't well intentioned POTUSes get to pick their own people?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 24, 2021, 09:51:05 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 24, 2021, 08:16:15 AM

TRUMP lied. People died.

FIFY

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 24, 2021, 09:57:06 AM

The right wing has their Emmanuel Goldstein to focus their hate and distract them from who was actually in charge.

Suckers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 24, 2021, 10:34:17 AM

Quote from: The Lens on May 24, 2021, 09:07:23 AM

Fauci is so f'n incompetent...he should have been FIRED.  I don't get how he kept a job for the past 4 years.  I hate that Presidents are stuck with federal employees and don't have any say in who works for the federal government.  I know that if DJT was able to he would have rid America of that fool.  Why is American government set up so poorly, why can't well intentioned POTUSes get to pick their own people?

Thank god we had competent doctors like Scott Atlas, right?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 24, 2021, 10:35:54 AM

Quote from: The Lens on May 24, 2021, 09:07:23 AM

Fauci is so f'n incompetent...he should have been FIRED.  I don't get how he kept a job for the past 4 years.  I hate that Presidents are stuck with federal employees and don't have any say in who works for the federal government.  I know that if DJT was able to he would have rid America of that fool.  Why is American government set up so poorly, why can't well intentioned POTUSes get to pick their own people?

AM drinking on the Teal Train again, Lens?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Lens on May 24, 2021, 10:47:38 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 24, 2021, 10:35:54 AM

AM drinking on the Teal Train again, Lens?

It's a 24/7 Bar Car,,,

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 24, 2021, 11:14:10 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 24, 2021, 08:48:28 AM

Fauci didn’t lie. Fauci didn’t know everything.  He’s a public health figure who was right more than he was wrong. That’s all.

Has he been lifted up too much as the voice of authority?  Yep.

Has he been vilified by other cause they want to excuse the poor presidential leadership in place last year?  No doubt.

Ya the lifting up and worshipping from the media towards Fauci is what has gotten me most fired up through this whole thing.  Trump was wrong plenty and held accountable by the media and voters.  Fauci has been wrong a lot as well but that gets ignored and his word continues to be viewed as gospel by too many.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on May 24, 2021, 03:02:30 PM

Quote from: tower912 on May 17, 2021, 10:38:18 AM

My sense of smell is still messed up 6 months in.

My bro in law still has not recovered his sense of smell after having Covid 3 months ago. He recovered otherwise fine within a week or so. Was never seriously sick...no hospitalization or anything close to that. But the smell just has not come back. He's wondering if it ever will.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 24, 2021, 03:27:52 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 24, 2021, 11:14:10 AM

Trump was wrong plenty and held accountable by the media and voters.

Careful ... the GQP will cancel you faster than you can say “Liz.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 24, 2021, 05:22:34 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 24, 2021, 11:14:10 AM

Ya the lifting up and worshipping from the media towards Fauci is what has gotten me most fired up through this whole thing.  Trump was wrong plenty and held accountable by the media and voters.  Fauci has been wrong a lot as well but that gets ignored and his word continues to be viewed as gospel by too many.

We must be watching different media

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on May 24, 2021, 06:49:13 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 24, 2021, 08:48:28 AM

Fauci didn’t lie. Fauci didn’t know everything.  He’s a public health figure who was right more than he was wrong. That’s all.

Has he been lifted up too much as the voice of authority?  Yep.

Has he been vilified by other cause they want to excuse the poor presidential leadership in place last year?  No doubt.

didn't lie??  too much ya mean?  why the horse hockey would ya have to lie when it's always heads i win, tails you lose while our media's heads were so far up his keester they were playing tonsil hockey with him.  poor leadership??  he dumped the loser long before all of the "cool people" started to.  they didn't want to dump him too soon cuz it would've proved 45 was right and we can't have any of that

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 24, 2021, 08:08:10 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on May 24, 2021, 06:49:13 PM

didn't lie??  too much ya mean?  why the horse hockey would ya have to lie when it's always heads i win, tails you lose while our media's heads were so far up his keester they were playing tonsil hockey with him.  poor leadership??  he dumped the loser long before all of the "cool people" started to.  they didn't want to dump him too soon cuz it would've proved 45 was right and we can't have any of that

<sad trombone>

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 24, 2021, 08:20:10 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on May 24, 2021, 05:22:34 PM

We must be watching different media

My favorite bit of Tony Fauci media darling was when the murderous Governor of NY and TF went back and forth on CNN News concerning which actors should play them when the movie about the heroes of Covid was made. Cuomo suggested DeNiro and Pacino, Tony (kiddingly, I think) said he preferred Brad Pitt. Hard hitting stuff from a right down the middle, hard hitting news organization.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 24, 2021, 08:37:30 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 24, 2021, 08:20:10 PM

My favorite bit of Tony Fauci media darling was when the murderous Governor of NY and TF went back and forth on CNN News concerning which actors should play them when the movie about the heroes of Covid was made. Cuomo suggested DeNiro and Pacino, Tony (kiddingly, I think) said he preferred Brad Pitt. Hard hitting stuff from a right down the middle, hard hitting news organization.

Levity is always a major felony.  ?-(

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on May 24, 2021, 08:50:45 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 24, 2021, 08:20:10 PM

My favorite bit of Tony Fauci media darling was when the murderous Governor of NY and TF went back and forth on CNN News concerning which actors should play them when the movie about the heroes of Covid was made. Cuomo suggested DeNiro and Pacino, Tony (kiddingly, I think) said he preferred Brad Pitt. Hard hitting stuff from a right down the middle, hard hitting news organization.

Ah.

You and I are definitely watching different media

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on May 24, 2021, 09:23:01 PM

not sure which he is better at...pitching or "expert" epidemiologist

  i don't care who you are, but this is funny right there ;D



https://youtu.be/HA2igjmuZIc

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 24, 2021, 09:33:34 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on May 24, 2021, 08:50:45 PM

Ah.

You and I are definitely watching different media

My oldest daughter’s significant other works for CNN - gotta support friends/family.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 24, 2021, 10:41:04 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on May 24, 2021, 06:49:13 PM

didn't lie??  too much ya mean?  why the horse hockey would ya have to lie when it's always heads i win, tails you lose while our media's heads were so far up his keester they were playing tonsil hockey with him.  poor leadership??  he dumped the loser long before all of the "cool people" started to.  they didn't want to dump him too soon cuz it would've proved 45 was right and we can't have any of that

45 was right about next to nothing, which is why he has been replaced by 46.

but at least your hero oversaw the deaths of half a million americans; youse 2 will always have that to celebrate.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 25, 2021, 06:06:51 AM

Let the partisan hackery continue!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 25, 2021, 06:14:24 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 25, 2021, 06:06:51 AM

Let the partisan hackery continue!

Says the guy who just posted:

“Let us not forget that if Conservatives had just worn the damn things from the get go a couple hundred thousand people would still be alive and kickin, aina?”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 25, 2021, 06:17:17 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on May 25, 2021, 06:14:24 AM

Says the guy who just posted:

“Let us not forget that if Conservatives had just worn the damn things from the get go a couple hundred thousand people would still be alive and kickin, aina?”

Yeah, but if you're paying attention, I didn't deny that the Liberals can't seem to give up their masks.  Just pointing out the hypocrisy of bringing up Liberal stupidity while ignoring Conservative stupidity.

I've been very critical of both parties since this all started.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on May 25, 2021, 06:22:04 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 25, 2021, 06:17:17 AM

Yeah, but if you're paying attention, I didn't deny that the Liberals can't seem to give up their masks.  Just pointing out the hypocrisy of bringing up Liberal stupidity while ignoring Conservative stupidity.

I've been very critical of both parties since this all started.

Fair enough. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on May 25, 2021, 07:30:12 AM

My Fr. Fauci bobblehead sits patiently in a pinata, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on May 25, 2021, 09:22:04 AM

Break time. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 26, 2021, 06:31:19 AM

A pretty big milestone has been hit, as half of the adults in the United States -- more than 129M people over the age of 18 -- are now fully vaccinated against the coronavirus, according to new data from the CDC.

Nine states - Connecticut, Hawaii, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, Maine, Massachusetts, Rhode Island and Vermont - have even inoculated 70% of their adult population with at least one dose. The milestones come nearly two weeks after CDC officials relaxed social distancing and mask requirements for the fully vaccinated, paving the road for many states to ease additional restrictions.

Among people in the U.S. aged 65 and up (a demographic that faces far greater health risks), nearly 74% have been fully vaccinated.

The entire nation also opened up jabs to anyone over 16 in the middle of April, and the FDA approved the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine for anyone over 12 nearly two weeks ago. Nearly 5M of these adolescents have received at least one dose of the vaccine, according to the CDC.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 26, 2021, 09:10:43 AM

Quote from: MU82 on May 26, 2021, 06:31:19 AM

A pretty big milestone has been hit, as half of the adults in the United States -- more than 129M people over the age of 18 -- are now fully vaccinated against the coronavirus, according to new data from the CDC.

Nine states - Connecticut, Hawaii, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, Maine, Massachusetts, Rhode Island and Vermont - have even inoculated 70% of their adult population with at least one dose. The milestones come nearly two weeks after CDC officials relaxed social distancing and mask requirements for the fully vaccinated, paving the road for many states to ease additional restrictions.

Among people in the U.S. aged 65 and up (a demographic that faces far greater health risks), nearly 74% have been fully vaccinated.

The entire nation also opened up jabs to anyone over 16 in the middle of April, and the FDA approved the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine for anyone over 12 nearly two weeks ago. Nearly 5M of these adolescents have received at least one dose of the vaccine, according to the CDC.

No surprise the entirety of New England is on the list.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on May 26, 2021, 09:22:08 AM

Key milestone to watch for: once we are under a 7 day average of 20,000 daily cases, it will be the lowest since the initial surge in March-April 2020. We are currently at 24,000.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on May 27, 2021, 08:45:48 PM

Hmmm, the US was down to about 35th and falling in Bloomberg’s ranking of how well countries reacted to the pandemic in November/December, and now it’s 13th.

I wonder what changed to make such a drastic improvement…

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-resilience-ranking/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 27, 2021, 10:37:22 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on May 27, 2021, 08:45:48 PM

Hmmm, the US was down to about 35th and falling in Bloomberg’s ranking of how well countries reacted to the pandemic in November/December, and now it’s 13th.

I wonder what changed to make such a drastic improvement…

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-resilience-ranking/

Aah..., that’s a tough one, pbi.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on May 28, 2021, 08:47:50 AM

Yeah, its called da vaccine, aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 28, 2021, 08:54:15 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on May 28, 2021, 08:47:50 AM

Yeah, its called da vaccine, aina?

Psst ... we're not the only country with a vaccine.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on May 28, 2021, 10:15:47 AM

Look, I'm not a trump guy by any stretch but its not as simple as trump bad, biden good.

Vaccines are the reason we are crushing this thing. Some of the credit for the development should go to the previous administration, just like the credit for the rollout success should go to Biden.

Trump bungled the initial response terribly. But he did assist with the vaccine development.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 28, 2021, 11:02:45 AM

Quote from: Coleman on May 28, 2021, 10:15:47 AM

Look, I'm not a trump guy by any stretch but its not as simple as trump bad, biden good.

Vaccines are the reason we are crushing this thing. Some of the credit for the development should go to the previous administration, just like the credit for the rollout success should go to Biden.

Trump bungled the initial response terribly. But he did assist with the vaccine development.

How?

Bush, and Obama to a lesser extent, did the heavy lifting on pandemic awareness and vaccine creation.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 28, 2021, 11:26:02 AM

Covid rates for unvaccinated are about as bad as January.

So it’s not really surprising that this foray into political social engineering by Trump and the GOP is now coming to its natural fruition. The Washington Post has some sobering news for those who remain unvaccinated against COVID-19: in many states, the pandemic is showing itself to be as deadly as it ever was.

The country’s declining covid-19 case rates present an unrealistically optimistic perspective for half of the nation — the half that is still not vaccinated.

As more people receive vaccines, covid-19 cases are occurring mostly in the increasingly narrow slice of the unprotected population. So The Washington Post adjusted its case, death and hospitalization rates to account for that — and found that in some places, the virus continues to rage among those who haven’t received a shot.

The Post’s analysis, authored by Dan Keating and Leslie Shapiro, is fairly straightforward, using CDC data and adjusting for the number of those vaccinated, and controlling for the possibility of infections even among those who received their doses. The results as predictable as they are stark.

Among the unvaccinated in Washington state, for example, the rate for hospitalization and deaths is the same as it was in January, the most virulent month of the COVID-19 pandemic. The national death rate for unvaccinated folks “is roughly the same as it was two months ago and is barely inching down,” while “The adjusted hospitalization rate is as high as it was three months ago.” The case rate is still declining, which makes sense since (in accordance with the research demonstrating a vast reduction in transmission from those who’ve received the vaccine), more people being vaccinated equates to fewer people spreading the virus.

For those who haven’t received the vaccine, however, COVID-19 is spreading just as fast as it ever was. The Post analyzed data from Maine, Colorado, Michigan and Washington state; all had “adjusted rates about double the adjusted national rate.”  Some states, Minnesota, Oregon and Pennsylvania are “slightly lower.”  Some spikes in case rates among the unvaccinated are attributable to variants of the virus.


Coleman, this is the only credit trump deserves - He’s still killing people.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 28, 2021, 11:35:47 AM

Quote from: Jockey on May 28, 2021, 11:26:02 AM

Covid rates for unvaccinated are about as bad as January.

So it’s not really surprising that this foray into political social engineering by Trump and the GOP is now coming to its natural fruition. The Washington Post has some sobering news for those who remain unvaccinated against COVID-19: in many states, the pandemic is showing itself to be as deadly as it ever was.

The country’s declining covid-19 case rates present an unrealistically optimistic perspective for half of the nation — the half that is still not vaccinated.

As more people receive vaccines, covid-19 cases are occurring mostly in the increasingly narrow slice of the unprotected population. So The Washington Post adjusted its case, death and hospitalization rates to account for that — and found that in some places, the virus continues to rage among those who haven’t received a shot.

The Post’s analysis, authored by Dan Keating and Leslie Shapiro, is fairly straightforward, using CDC data and adjusting for the number of those vaccinated, and controlling for the possibility of infections even among those who received their doses. The results as predictable as they are stark.

Among the unvaccinated in Washington state, for example, the rate for hospitalization and deaths is the same as it was in January, the most virulent month of the COVID-19 pandemic. The national death rate for unvaccinated folks “is roughly the same as it was two months ago and is barely inching down,” while “The adjusted hospitalization rate is as high as it was three months ago.” The case rate is still declining, which makes sense since (in accordance with the research demonstrating a vast reduction in transmission from those who’ve received the vaccine), more people being vaccinated equates to fewer people spreading the virus.

For those who haven’t received the vaccine, however, COVID-19 is spreading just as fast as it ever was. The Post analyzed data from Maine, Colorado, Michigan and Washington state; all had “adjusted rates about double the adjusted national rate.”  Some states, Minnesota, Oregon and Pennsylvania are “slightly lower.”  Some spikes in case rates among the unvaccinated are attributable to variants of the virus.


Coleman, this is the only credit trump deserves - He’s still killing people.

Delusional.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on May 28, 2021, 11:39:41 AM

Maybe the last line.    The rest is data based.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 28, 2021, 01:20:01 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 28, 2021, 11:35:47 AM

Delusional.

So you think telling people to gather and to not wear masks saved lives and solved the Covid crisis?

Delusional.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 28, 2021, 02:07:52 PM

Quote from: Jockey on May 28, 2021, 01:20:01 PM

So you think telling people to gather and to not wear masks saved lives and solved the Covid crisis?

Delusional.

That's a lot of credit to give to Fauci.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on May 28, 2021, 03:17:47 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 28, 2021, 02:07:52 PM

That's a lot of credit to give to Fauci.

I never even mentioned Fauci.  Or for that matter, said that Covid was solved.

So, I don’t get what you are saying.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on May 28, 2021, 03:47:34 PM

Cruising into the long weekend with another lock to the COVID thread due to unabashed partisan bickering and hackery  8-)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on May 29, 2021, 06:33:46 AM

Jockster, I vote policy, not personality. This country in the past 4 months has turned into a clusterfook because of the limp dick in office. The Mexican border is a mess and the Middle East is a powder keg. While hate has no home here, anti-semitism is rampant in our cities and not 1 democratic is appalled.
You wouldn't give Trump credit if he saved you from choking on your own vomit, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on May 29, 2021, 06:45:21 AM

Quote from: Jockey on May 28, 2021, 03:17:47 PM

I never even mentioned Fauci.  Or for that matter, said that Covid was solved.

So, I don’t get what you are saying.

So you think telling people to gather and to not wear masks saved lives and solved  the Covid crisis?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 29, 2021, 06:56:18 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on May 29, 2021, 06:33:46 AM

Jockster, I vote policy, not personality. This country in the past 4 months has turned into a clusterfook because of the limp dick in office. The Mexican border is a mess and the Middle East is a powder keg. While hate has no home here, anti-semitism is rampant in our cities and not 1 democratic is appalled.
You wouldn't give Trump credit if he saved you from choking on your own vomit, hey?

Your hero's policies resulted in the deaths of 600K+ Americans, millions losing their jobs and 100,000+ businesses closing forever. And that's just his pandemic policies. Racism was at its worst in 50 years, America lost its standing as a world leader, the administration was overrun with a revolving door of inept and corrupt dirtbags, nepotism was rampant, health care wasn't reformed, promised infrastructure improvements never happened, Mexico didn't pay one penny toward the useless (and mostly unbuilt) wall, and the president of the United States stood on a world stage and said he believed the Russian dictator rather than the very intelligence people he had appointed. In a 2-year span, your hero managed to lose the House of Representatives, the White House and the Senate for his party. And the cherry on top was his traitorous campaign to subvert democracy.

Thank goodness America is being led back to a position of strength, economic power and worldwide respect, not to mention common decency.

You wouldn't criticize your hero if he made you choke on his vomit while you were frenchin' him, nu?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on May 29, 2021, 07:11:11 AM

Boychik, let's talk about the Mid East and anti-semitism, or isn't American's only democratic ally in that part of the world important to you, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on May 29, 2021, 07:34:23 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on May 29, 2021, 06:33:46 AM

Jockster, I vote policy, not personality. This country in the past 4 months has turned into a clusterfook because of the limp dick in office. The Mexican border is a mess and the Middle East is a powder keg. While hate has no home here, anti-semitism is rampant in our cities and not 1 democratic is appalled.
You wouldn't give Trump credit if he saved you from choking on your own vomit, hey?

Man, you would’ve thought Trump would’ve got elected or even given Biden a run in the election.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: naginiF on May 29, 2021, 09:44:48 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on May 29, 2021, 06:33:46 AM

Jockster, I vote policy, not personality. This country in the past 4 months has turned into a clusterfook because of the limp dick in office. The Mexican border is a mess and the Middle East is a powder keg. While hate has no home here, anti-semitism is rampant in our cities and not 1 democratic is appalled.
You wouldn't give Trump credit if he saved you from choking on your own vomit, hey?

Such a confusing time we live in, the party without white nationalists/christian nationalists/neo nazi's and who openly supports every minority and marginalized group are now the bad guys because they haven't met the arbitrary level of outrage prescribed by right wing media.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 29, 2021, 09:46:58 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on May 29, 2021, 07:11:11 AM

Boychik, let's talk about the Mid East and anti-semitism, or isn't American's only democratic ally in that part of the world important to you, hey?

I find it somewhat ironic that you're posting about anti semitism in the same post about supporting Israel. That's basically on par with saying racism is up here in the states but go South Africa during apartheid or saying anti semetism is up here but support the UK during the Northern Ireland troubles.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 29, 2021, 11:45:34 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on May 29, 2021, 06:33:46 AM

Jockster, I vote policy, not personality. This country in the past 4 months has turned into a clusterfook because of the limp dick in office. The Mexican border is a mess and the Middle East is a powder keg. While hate has no home here, anti-semitism is rampant in our cities and not 1 democratic is appalled.
You wouldn't give Trump credit if he saved you from choking on your own vomit, hey?

It's as if you don't even try to be remotely credible or honest.

President Biden
@POTUS
May 24
The recent attacks on the Jewish community are despicable, and they must stop. I condemn this hateful behavior at home and abroad — it’s up to all of us to give hate no safe harbor.

Ilhan Omar
May 26
@IlhanMN
The rise in antisemitic attacks at home and abroad is appalling.
We must be clear and unequivocal: antisemitism is unacceptable and has no place in any movement.
Fighting bigotry of any kind means fighting bigotry of every kind.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
@AOC
May 21
We will never, ever tolerate antisemitism here in NY or anywhere in the world.
The recent surge in attacks is horrifying. We stand with our Jewish communities in condemning this violence.

Ayanna Pressley
May 22
@AyannaPressley
I strongly condemn the rise in anti-Semitism and islamophobia we’re seeing across the country.
Let me say it again: our freedom and our destinies are tied.
The struggle for liberation and justice requires all of us to reject hate and division in any form.

Cori Bush
@CoriBush
May 22
The work of dismantling antisemitism, anti-Blackness, Islamophobia, anti-Palestinian racism, and every other form of hate is OUR work.
We will ONLY achieve collective liberation by leading with radical love. There is no room for hate of any kind in our movements for justice.

I can add many more if you like, bur seeing as this is more than one, we're probably good, right?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on May 29, 2021, 12:39:03 PM

That statement from Omar is rich given her history.

That being said, im pretty sure people have complained Biden has been too pro-Israel. My Jewish friends are far more upset by public sentiment than they are by political voices which have been fine

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on May 29, 2021, 12:53:41 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on May 29, 2021, 07:11:11 AM

Boychik, let's talk about the Mid East and anti-semitism, or isn't American's only democratic ally in that part of the world important to you, hey?

C'mon smoe ... anti-Semites are "very fine people," too. Even if they are chanting, "Blood and soil!" and "Jews will not replace us!" as they march around Charlottesville carrying torches. Very fine people, nu?

All part of a long history of anti-Semitism from your hero, which is amazing given that he let his daughter marry a Jew.

Biden, meanwhile, has repeatedly and strongly condemned anti-Semitism.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 29, 2021, 02:42:06 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on May 29, 2021, 12:39:03 PM

That statement from Omar is rich given her history.

That being said, im pretty sure people have complained Biden has been too pro-Israel. My Jewish friends are far more upset by public sentiment than they are by political voices which have been fine

Anti-Istael and anti-Semitic are not synonymous.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on May 29, 2021, 03:08:10 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 29, 2021, 02:42:06 PM

Anti-Istael and anti-Semitic are not synonymous.

Omar has been flat out anti-Semitic, not just anti-Israel, and has been called out on it countless times, far before the recent wave of ME tension, by her own party.  She’s dog whistled like crazy about it

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 29, 2021, 03:20:32 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on May 29, 2021, 03:08:10 PM

Omar has been flat out anti-Semitic, not just anti-Israel, and has been called out on it countless times, far before the recent wave of ME tension, by her own party.  She’s dog whistled like crazy about it

Examples, please. As in, give me an example of some anti-Semitic act or statement of hers that's not directly related to Israel.
I agree, she's virulently anti-Israel, but that's not the same as anti-Jew (as much as some wish to make it so)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on May 29, 2021, 03:41:18 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 29, 2021, 03:20:32 PM

Examples, please. As in, give me an example of some anti-Semitic act or statement of hers that's not directly related to Israel.
I agree, she's virulently anti-Israel, but that's not the same as anti-Jew (as much as some wish to make it so)

Her friendly relationship with Miftah for a start.

If you’re saying that all the stuff she says is only anti-Israel and thus making it not anti-Jew, that’s convenient excuse making.  She’s basically said any Jewish support for Israel is an “allegiance to a foreign country”.   She attacked an opponent for being in the pockets of special interests and then only named Jewish donors. It’s not a clumsy one off comment on Israel, it’s a repeated criticism of Israel and its Jewish supports that is filled wi the dog whistles.  People rightly slam Trump for dog whistling but you can’t just justify her dog whistling as “oh anti-Israel is not anti-Semitic”

There are plenty of legitimate criticisms of Israel that are not anti-Semitic, she chooses to attack support of Israel, mostly Jewish, domestically. The House Democrats resolution a few years ago on the heels of her terrible Benjamins tweets was very telling. But sure, she has no problem with Jews, just Israel, ok  ::)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 29, 2021, 03:49:59 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on May 29, 2021, 03:41:18 PM

Her friendly relationship with Miftah for a start.

If you’re saying that all the stuff she says is only anti-Israel and thus making it not anti-Jew, that’s convenient excuse making.  She’s basically said any Jewish support for Israel is an “allegiance to a foreign country”.   She attacked an opponent for being in the pockets of special interests and then only named Jewish donors. It’s not a clumsy one off comment on Israel, it’s a repeated criticism of Israel and its Jewish supports that is filled wi the dog whistles.  People rightly slam Trump for dog whistling but you can’t just justify her dog whistling as “oh anti-Israel is not anti-Semitic”

There are plenty of legitimate criticisms of Israel that are not anti-Semitic, she chooses to attack support of Israel, mostly Jewish, domestically. The House Democrats resolution a few years ago on the heels of her terrible Benjamins tweets was very telling. But sure, she has no problem with Jews, just Israel, ok  ::)

The fact that you went straight to Mitfah merely bolsters my point.
And the fact you couldn't answer my question and provide any examples  proves it.

When she starts ranting about George Soros, space lasers and the great replacement - like some of our friends on the right - by all means label her an anti-semite.  Until then, you're conflating separate issues.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on May 29, 2021, 04:03:16 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on May 29, 2021, 03:49:59 PM

The fact that you went straight to Mitfah merely bolsters my point.
And the fact you couldn't answer my question and provide any examples  proves it.

When she starts ranting about George Soros, space lasers and the great replacement - like some of our friends on the right - by all means label her an anti-semite.  Until then, you're conflating separate issues.

What point? She doesn’t dislike Jews she just dislikes Israel? Ok. Agree to disagree. And agree to disagree about countless articles from reputable sources that call to question her anti-Semitic remarks. Until she drops something about money grubbing Jews she deserves the benefit of the doubt and is just expressing nuanced and respectful geopolitical opinion

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/can-ilhan-omar-overcome-her-prejudice-11562970265

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/3/6/18251639/ilhan-omar-israel-anti-semitism-jews

But sure, protect your side. Be arrogant as is your go-to, all good. Good to know I can’t be anti-Muslim if I speak derogatorily and said supporters of the Palestinian cause were typical terror enablers because that’s just being anti-Palestine/Hamas, not anti-Muslim

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on May 29, 2021, 06:22:53 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on May 29, 2021, 04:03:16 PM

What point? She doesn’t dislike Jews she just dislikes Israel? Ok. Agree to disagree. And agree to disagree about countless articles from reputable sources that call to question her anti-Semitic remarks. Until she drops something about money grubbing Jews she deserves the benefit of the doubt and is just expressing nuanced and respectful geopolitical opinion

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/can-ilhan-omar-overcome-her-prejudice-11562970265

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/3/6/18251639/ilhan-omar-israel-anti-semitism-jews

But sure, protect your side. Be arrogant as is your go-to, all good. Good to know I can’t be anti-Muslim if I speak derogatorily and said supporters of the Palestinian cause were typical terror enablers because that’s just being anti-Palestine/Hamas, not anti-Muslim

My side? Don't assume facts not in evidence, counselor. I disagree with Omar on much, including much of her stance on Israel, But that doesn't make her an anti-semite. You still can't name a single instance of her attacking "Jews," as opposed to Israeli policy.

Among the links you posted as your evidence is an opinion piece by Ayaan Hirsi Ali, an outspoken critic of Islam, an associate at the conservative Hoover Institute and American Enterprise Instiitute, and someone who's publicly stated that Donald Trump's immigration ban on certain Muslin countries didn't go far enough.
So, maybe not the most objective of sources.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 01, 2021, 06:24:26 AM

Sad story ... and cautionary tale?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/31/us/coronavirus-deaths-vaccine.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20210601&instance_id=31975&nl=the-morning&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=59528&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

After more than a year of pandemic restrictions, many Americans are leaving their masks behind, making summer travel plans and joyously reuniting with family and friends. As more are vaccinated and new infections plummet, there is a sense that the worst of the pandemic is over in the United States.

But for people like Michele Preissler, 60, the worst has just begun.

Ms. Preissler lost her husband to Covid-19 in late May, just as many restrictions were being lifted and life, for many, was starting to look more like normal. Customers were going without masks last week at the Walmart near her home in Pasadena, Md., where she was shopping for items for her husband’s funeral.

“Everybody is saying, ‘Oh, it’s fine,’” said Ms. Preissler, who said her husband, Darryl Preissler, 63, loved to hunt, camp and go crabbing with his grandson, and was not vaccinated when he caught the virus at a wedding in early April. “I’m just thinking to myself, ‘If you only knew what I just went through.’”

With half of Americans protected with at least one dose of a vaccine, the virus outlook in this country is the best it has been at any point in the pandemic. New cases, hospitalizations and deaths are lower than they have been in many months, and even the most cautious health officials are celebrating the country’s progress. Fully vaccinated people, who are at low risk of catching and spreading the virus, have been told they can take off their masks and return to many regular activities, with the support of top scientists.

Even now, though, about 450 deaths are being reported each day, and that has left hundreds of families dealing with a new kind of pandemic grief.

Unlike earlier periods when most Americans were seeing their lives affected by Covid, relatives of people dying of the virus now describe a lonely sorrow: They are mourning even as so many others are celebrating newfound freedom. In one sign of the dissonance, the pandemic has improved enough that funerals — once forced to take place over Zoom — are mostly permitted to happen in person again, a bittersweet shift for those losing people now.

In some cases, the grief has been complicated by new — and thorny — questions about vaccination. People dying from Covid-19 today are largely unvaccinated, health experts say. There have been some reports of people dying after being vaccinated, but experts say those are rare exceptions.

Some people who died in recent weeks got sick before they were eligible for shots, raising questions about whether the United States’ vaccine rollout moved quickly enough to reach all Americans. The widespread availability of vaccines is still relatively recent — most states had opened vaccines to all adults by mid-April, with up to six weeks needed for full immunity — and it can take several weeks from the onset of symptoms for cases to turn fatal.

Others who have died lately were hesitant to get shots, their relatives said, underscoring the challenge that remains ahead for health authorities in their quest to convince Americans of the safety of vaccination. Still others, like Mr. Preissler, who was busy at his job remodeling homes, simply had not yet gotten around to getting his shot, according to his wife, who already had been vaccinated.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 01, 2021, 08:39:32 AM

The point of the article should have been “get vaccinated now”.

“I didn’t have time” is a poor excuse to be dead.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on June 01, 2021, 09:28:38 AM

Quote from: Coleman on May 26, 2021, 09:22:08 AM

Key milestone to watch for: once we are under a 7 day average of 20,000 daily cases, it will be the lowest since the initial surge in March-April 2020. We are currently at 24,000.

We hit it today.

17,000 average daily cases as of this morning. This is the lowest since March 27, 2020.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 01, 2021, 09:52:06 AM

Quote from: Jockey on June 01, 2021, 08:39:32 AM

The point of the article should have been “get vaccinated now”.

“I didn’t have time” is a poor excuse to be dead.

It was a news article, not an opinion piece. I believe that intelligent readers would agree with your point.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on June 01, 2021, 10:16:25 AM

I know someone who was ‘too busy’ doing real estate closings and taxes for people. I went a bit nuts when I found out from a mutual friend  because I had run into him and his wife the day before, walked several blocks with them, and innocently inquired about whether the whole family had gotten their jabs. In retrospect I realized that while the wife discussed her Moderna side effects with me, they led me to believe that only her brother remained unvaccinated, which p***** me off when I found out the truth the next day.
I do understand that after much prodding by our mutual friend, the guy now has had his J&J, getting him to do two shots was out of the question.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on June 01, 2021, 08:18:56 PM

The India variant is in America.  This isn't over.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on June 01, 2021, 10:38:28 PM

Quote from: tower912 on June 01, 2021, 08:18:56 PM

The India variant is in America.  This isn't over.

you're right, not until everyone reads faustini's book, wait for it..."truth" and watches the animated version on disney or whatever.  dude's got a lot of time, over 300 tv appearances, vogue mag covers all while changing into his covid crusader cape...who is that "masked" man anyway? he better hurry up before whatever's left of the cnn/msnbc crowd figures out what a fraud he is

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on June 01, 2021, 10:53:35 PM

Emmanuel Goldstein is a horrible, vile man, completely and solely responsible for all that is wrong in the world.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 01, 2021, 11:37:47 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on June 01, 2021, 10:38:28 PM

you're right, not until everyone reads faustini's book, wait for it..."truth" and watches the animated version on disney or whatever.  dude's got a lot of time, over 300 tv appearances, vogue mag covers all while changing into his covid crusader cape...who is that "masked" man anyway? he better hurry up before whatever's left of the cnn/msnbc crowd figures out what a fraud he is

in addition to your bds and mds, you also have fds.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Lens on June 02, 2021, 09:49:49 AM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on June 01, 2021, 10:38:28 PM

you're right, not until everyone reads faustini's book, wait for it..."truth" and watches the animated version on disney or whatever.  dude's got a lot of time, over 300 tv appearances, vogue mag covers all while changing into his covid crusader cape...who is that "masked" man anyway? he better hurry up before whatever's left of the cnn/msnbc crowd figures out what a fraud he is

Why didn't Trump fire the fraud?  Why did Trump leave him on for all 4 years?  And why did Reagan keep him on for 8 years?  And why did George W Bush award him with the nation's highest honor for a civilian?  Is it because like most medical professionals he keeps learning and evolving his position as new evidence becomes available and has proven useful to our country over his entire career?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on June 02, 2021, 09:57:04 AM

So Fraudci can evolve but Trump is still lambasted by the left for his statements from last April?  Logical.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on June 02, 2021, 10:03:11 AM

Quote from: tower912 on June 01, 2021, 08:18:56 PM

The India variant is in America.  This isn't over.

Is this resistant to vaccines or something?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on June 02, 2021, 10:06:21 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on June 02, 2021, 09:57:04 AM

So Fraudci can evolve but Trump is still lambasted by the left for his statements from last April?  Logical.

Yes. Fauci, even in the email indicates that mask wearing is best for those infected. That was always true. As we learned more about the prevalence of spread, and when the disease became infectious, it became important/prudent for all to wear masks as a precaution. His statements evolved with the science.

Trump asked for them to inject bleach into people, and irradiate them intravenously with ionizing radiation.

Kind of different scenarios.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Lens on June 02, 2021, 10:20:32 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on June 02, 2021, 09:57:04 AM

So Fauci can evolve but Trump is still lambasted by the left for his statements from last April?  Logical.

Did Trump ever once in his Presidency say:  "I had it wrong, I realize now we should have X or we could have Y"

Trump portends to be right 100% of the time.  Fauci (and nearly dozens of others in that field) admitted many times he was wrong / learning.  I don't think I have ever seen Trump admit he was wrong.  That's kind of scary.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on June 02, 2021, 10:42:07 AM

Quote from: Coleman on June 02, 2021, 10:03:11 AM

Is this resistant to vaccines or something?

More contagious.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Coleman on June 02, 2021, 11:03:41 AM

Quote from: tower912 on June 02, 2021, 10:42:07 AM

More contagious.

I hear what you're saying, but then the answer to all of this is the same as it has been, and is 100% within our control...everyone get vaccinated.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on June 02, 2021, 11:56:51 AM

Agreed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on June 02, 2021, 12:04:08 PM

Recruitin' black owned barber shops ta administer da vaccine ain't gonna get it dunn, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on June 02, 2021, 12:12:30 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on June 02, 2021, 12:04:08 PM

Recruitin' black owned barber shops ta administer da vaccine ain't gonna get it dunn, hey?

If only they had lawyers and accountants, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on June 02, 2021, 12:14:56 PM

Quote from: forgetful on June 02, 2021, 10:06:21 AM

Yes. Fauci, even in the email indicates that mask wearing is best for those infected. That was always true. As we learned more about the prevalence of spread, and when the disease became infectious, it became important/prudent for all to wear masks as a precaution. His statements evolved with the science.

Trump asked for them to inject bleach into people, and irradiate them intravenously with ionizing radiation.

Kind of different scenarios.

you guys being fixated on the bleach statement shows an obvious bias clouding out credible argument for fauci.  45 did a lot more good than he will ever be given credit for, like him or not.  fauci is polluted with advocacy

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 02, 2021, 12:32:18 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on June 02, 2021, 12:14:56 PM

you guys being fixated on the bleach statement shows an obvious bias clouding out credible argument for fauci.  45 did a lot more good than he will ever be given credit for, like him or not.  fauci is polluted with advocacy

You couldn't be a bigger caricature of a brainwashed dope if you tried.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Lens on June 02, 2021, 12:38:19 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on June 02, 2021, 12:04:08 PM

Recruitin' black owned barber shops ta administer da vaccine ain't gonna get it dunn, hey?

I'm of the belief that the best way to get our vaccine numbers up is to hit a ton of singles.  So mobile vaccine efforts are a plus, vaccine raffles / lotteries are a plus, gift-cards are a plus, etc, etc.  Keep trying anything we can to incentivize people so that we can get back to normal and beat this thing.

Black owned barbershops won't solve our hesitancy problem but it will chip away at the problem.  Every little bit helps.  Maybe the most respected doctor in Lomira could set up shop at Midwest Shooter's Supply to help reach rural population that is hesitant.  Anything that helps, helps.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 02, 2021, 03:15:24 PM

Quote from: MU82 on June 01, 2021, 09:52:06 AM

It was a news article, not an opinion piece. I believe that intelligent readers would agree with your point.

I guess my point was that it was a poorly written article with dubious assertions. In 4 months, we went from few vaccinations and hard to find vaccine to enough vaccine for every American. An amazing accomplishment.

 Yet the authors of the article wrote “Some people who died in recent weeks got sick before they were eligible for shots, raising questions about whether the United States’ vaccine rollout moved quickly enough to reach all Americans.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 02, 2021, 03:22:10 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on June 02, 2021, 12:14:56 PM

you guys being fixated on the bleach statement shows an obvious bias clouding out credible argument for fauci.  45 did a lot more good than he will ever be given credit for, like him or not.  fauci is polluted with advocacy

hilarious and delusional. 45 accomplished amazingly little, unless one considers having 500K+ americans die on his watch, millions losing their jobs on his watch, racism ramping up on his watch, and a deadly coup attempt taking place at his behest as "accomplishments."

oh, and if "alzheimer joe" had looked his covid specialist right in the eye and suggested she investigate injecting disinfectant into the human body, you wouldn't just be shrugging it off. and if "dementia joe" had then tried to claim it was "sarcasm," you'd have called for him to be taken to the looney bin.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on June 02, 2021, 04:37:03 PM

So I said to my people 'Slow the testing down, please.'

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on June 04, 2021, 07:21:29 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/charlescwcooke/status/1400786530550026243

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on June 04, 2021, 08:49:38 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on June 04, 2021, 07:21:29 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/charlescwcooke/status/1400786530550026243

Rebekah Jones received whistleblower status earlier this week, so she now has some basic protections:

https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/editorials/article251781273.html

And, Jones kept copies of Moskowitz's comms with her. Quote from the article you just shared:

> Moskowitz decided to speak out publicly after Jones leaked their Twitter exchanges to The Miami Herald. Jones also shared images of encrypted Signal messages between her and Moskowitz that would have disappeared, but she took screen-captured pictures of the private exchanges and also gave them to the paper. Moskowitz said he doesn’t have copies of those.

Looks like DeSantis-appointee Moskowitz is trying to cover his ass before he gets fired.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on June 04, 2021, 09:51:15 AM

Quote from: Skatastrophy on June 04, 2021, 08:49:38 AM

Rebekah Jones received whistleblower status earlier this week, so she now has some basic protections:

https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/editorials/article251781273.html

And, Jones kept copies of Moskowitz's comms with her. Quote from the article you just shared:

> Moskowitz decided to speak out publicly after Jones leaked their Twitter exchanges to The Miami Herald. Jones also shared images of encrypted Signal messages between her and Moskowitz that would have disappeared, but she took screen-captured pictures of the private exchanges and also gave them to the paper. Moskowitz said he doesn’t have copies of those.

Looks like DeSantis-appointee Moskowitz is trying to cover his ass before he gets fired.

Haha, ok.  An opinion piece from someone who obviously hates the gov. 

We’ll see how this plays out I suppose.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on June 04, 2021, 10:44:52 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on June 04, 2021, 09:51:15 AM

Haha, ok.  An opinion piece from someone who obviously hates the gov. 

We’ll see how this plays out I suppose.

You disagree that the Florida IG granted her whistleblower status?

My bad for linking an Opinion piece, it was the first result that came up. Here's the news about it: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article251762323.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Billy Hoyle on June 04, 2021, 03:01:30 PM

Quote from: Jockey on June 02, 2021, 03:15:24 PM

I guess my point was that it was a poorly written article with dubious assertions. In 4 months, we went from few vaccinations and hard to find vaccine to enough vaccine for every American. An amazing accomplishment.

Yet the authors of the article wrote “Some people who died in recent weeks got sick before they were eligible for shots, raising questions about whether the United States’ vaccine rollout moved quickly enough to reach all Americans.”

In some areas that has been the case, but mainly because of poor planning and distribution by city and state governments. Political BS slowed down the process. Washington DC has been particularly dysfunctional.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 04, 2021, 03:22:09 PM

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on June 04, 2021, 03:01:30 PM

In some areas that has been the case, but mainly because of poor planning and distribution by city and state governments. Political BS slowed down the process. Washington DC has been particularly dysfunctional.

Do you have any sort of link or article pointing to this?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Billy Hoyle on June 04, 2021, 03:36:43 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 04, 2021, 03:22:09 PM

Do you have any sort of link or article pointing to this?

Here's some on DC:
https://thehoya.com/vaccination-rollout-concerns-d-c-residents/

Here's one for Oregon. What is not mentioned is the bickering over who should get it first. Originally it was older people and teachers. Then the board said BIPOC individuals (and argued over who was "BIPOC") but that was declared unconstitutional
https://www.kgw.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/vaccine/governor-orders-oha-to-speed-up-vaccinations/283-250329bc-65ef-404f-8e2c-ac977e3c9dd8

Let's face it, once we got competent leadership in DC the vaccines got out to the states.  There were also slowdowns in the delivery of the vaccines due to weather.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on June 05, 2021, 07:40:51 AM

https://twitter.com/miamiherald/status/1400935978894823428?s=21

NEW: Florida will no longer update its COVID-19 dashboard that tracked the number of cases and deaths in the state.

Its daily COVID-19 cases and vaccine reports have also stopped.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on June 05, 2021, 09:29:13 AM

If you don’t report the cases, then you don’t have any cases......
The stated reason is because there is no need as the numbers were improving so much. Florida’s been leading the country in cases the daily reports......

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on June 05, 2021, 04:04:51 PM

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57358492

This is nuts. Belgium’s chief virologist has been living in a safe house with his family for  several weeks due to a heavily-armed far right-wing member of the military who tried to ambush him. And thousands of people believe the would-be assassin is a hero...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on June 05, 2021, 04:44:42 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on June 05, 2021, 04:04:51 PM

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57358492

This is nuts. Belgium’s chief virologist has been living in a safe house with his family for  several weeks due to a heavily-armed far right-wing member of the military who tried to ambush him. And thousands of people believe the would-be assassin is a hero...

That’s a wild story.  Have to ask my rep there about it when we chat on Monday.

Also a remind of the irony that Belgium’s Minister of Health (well now former as of last year) is a morbidly obese physician.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 06, 2021, 11:37:53 AM

Donald Trump and his Republican allies have spent the past few weeks trying to rewrite or distort the history of the pandemic, attempting with renewed vigor to villainize Anthony S. Fauci while lionizing the former president for what they portray as heroic foresight and underappreciated efforts to combat the deadly virus.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-fauci-wuhan-lan-leak/2021/06/05/8469f022-c55b-11eb-9a8d-f95d7724967c_story.html?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F3344879%2F60bcec919d2fdae30271f4eb%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F41%2F72%2F60bcec919d2fdae30271f4eb

... The focus on from where the virus came appears to be an attempt to distract from the chief failure of the Trump administration — its uneven and chaotic response to the outbreak once it began spreading within the United States.

Trump frequently told the public it was not a serious threat and would go away soon, including when the weather changed. He resisted public health policies that medical experts said could save lives and sent conflicting signals to the public about whether to wear masks. He said you should, but he would not. Trump also sought to take little responsibility for the pandemic response, often saying it was the job of state governments, not his administration, to take action.

Now close to 600,000 Americans have died from the virus — a statistic that is impervious to the debate over whether the virus leaked from a Chinese lab or was spread from an animal to a human.

The focus on the virus’s origin story also fits a pattern of Trump and his supporters trying to absolve the former president of blame by obfuscating his past actions or words and blaming others despite his role as the country’s leader. Many Republicans are now playing down the severity of the deadly Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol, and Trump spent years trying to deny he equated the actions of white supremacists with racial justice demonstrators in the 2017 deadly clashes in Charlottesville.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on June 07, 2021, 10:29:54 AM

Quote from: MU82 on June 06, 2021, 11:37:53 AM

Donald Trump and his Republican allies have spent the past few weeks trying to rewrite or distort the history of the pandemic, attempting with renewed vigor to villainize Anthony S. Fauci while lionizing the former president for what they portray as heroic foresight and underappreciated efforts to combat the deadly virus.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-fauci-wuhan-lan-leak/2021/06/05/8469f022-c55b-11eb-9a8d-f95d7724967c_story.html?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F3344879%2F60bcec919d2fdae30271f4eb%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F41%2F72%2F60bcec919d2fdae30271f4eb

... The focus on from where the virus came appears to be an attempt to distract from the chief failure of the Trump administration — its uneven and chaotic response to the outbreak once it began spreading within the United States.

Trump frequently told the public it was not a serious threat and would go away soon, including when the weather changed. He resisted public health policies that medical experts said could save lives and sent conflicting signals to the public about whether to wear masks. He said you should, but he would not. Trump also sought to take little responsibility for the pandemic response, often saying it was the job of state governments, not his administration, to take action.

Now close to 600,000 Americans have died from the virus — a statistic that is impervious to the debate over whether the virus leaked from a Chinese lab or was spread from an animal to a human.

The focus on the virus’s origin story also fits a pattern of Trump and his supporters trying to absolve the former president of blame by obfuscating his past actions or words and blaming others despite his role as the country’s leader. Many Republicans are now playing down the severity of the deadly Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol, and Trump spent years trying to deny he equated the actions of white supremacists with racial justice demonstrators in the 2017 deadly clashes in Charlottesville.

For 40% of Americans no need to rewrite history. Trump is and always will be the hero in their narrative.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 07, 2021, 12:03:46 PM

Quote from: forgetful on June 07, 2021, 10:29:54 AM

For 40% of Americans no need to rewrite history. Trump is and always will be the hero in their narrative.

And wear backwards pants.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 07, 2021, 10:40:10 PM

Marjorie Q Greene is demanding an immediate investigation of Fauci, and she told Biden in a letter that she wants answers by “June 31, 2021.”

You can’t make this sh1t up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on June 07, 2021, 11:00:33 PM

Biden should agree to issue a report on that specific date in return for congressional approval of the January 6 commission.

She’s an idiot.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 08, 2021, 09:38:08 AM

Quote from: MU82 on June 07, 2021, 10:40:10 PM

Marjorie Q Greene is demanding an immediate investigation of Fauci, and she told Biden in a letter that she wants answers by “June 31, 2021.”

You can’t make this sh1t up.

Obviously, she is using a republican calendar.  ::)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on June 08, 2021, 10:02:01 AM

June 31 has special meaning in the Q world.    Or some such peepeekaka.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 08, 2021, 04:54:19 PM

Quote from: tower912 on June 08, 2021, 10:02:01 AM

June 31 has special meaning in the Q world.    Or some such peepeekaka.

Ah ... kind of a racist Juneteenth?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 09, 2021, 09:06:55 AM

Houston Methodist, a Houston Texas hospital, suspended 178 health-care workers for failing to comply with a strict vaccine mandate. The CEO of the hospital system confirmed the suspensions to the Washington Post on Tuesday. Almost 30,000 employees have been fully vaccinated by Monday's deadline. 178 opted to skip the shot in hopes that the hospital would not follow through on its threat to suspend non-compliant staff.

Unfortunately for those 178, the hospital called their bluff. Now they are all suspended for two weeks, without pay.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on June 09, 2021, 09:10:29 AM

Quote from: Jockey on June 09, 2021, 09:06:55 AM

Houston Methodist, a Houston Texas hospital, suspended 178 health-care workers for failing to comply with a strict vaccine mandate. The CEO of the hospital system confirmed the suspensions to the Washington Post on Tuesday. Almost 30,000 employees have been fully vaccinated by Monday's deadline. 178 opted to skip the shot in hopes that the hospital would not follow through on its threat to suspend non-compliant staff.

Unfortunately for those 178, the hospital called their bluff. Now they are all suspended for two weeks, without pay.

Good.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on June 09, 2021, 01:09:26 PM

The UK’s cases have been going up, due greatly to the Delta variant from India.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on June 09, 2021, 01:27:07 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on June 09, 2021, 01:09:26 PM

The UK’s cases have been going up, due greatly to the Delta variant from India.

UK is still very slow in getting the vaccine out to the people.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on June 09, 2021, 01:32:07 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on June 09, 2021, 01:27:07 PM

UK is still very slow in getting the vaccine out to the people.

Yea, my cousin is there and just got the first shot after many, many tries. It seems like where we were a few months ago.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 09, 2021, 01:33:13 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on June 09, 2021, 01:27:07 PM

UK is still very slow in getting the vaccine out to the people.

75% have their first shot and 40% have their second.  The US is at 52% and 42% respectively.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 09, 2021, 01:34:35 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on June 09, 2021, 01:27:07 PM

UK is still very slow in getting the vaccine out to the people.

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on June 09, 2021, 01:43:48 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 09, 2021, 01:33:13 PM

75% have their first shot and 40% have their second.  The US is at 52% and 42% respectively.

I stand corrected.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 09, 2021, 01:52:16 PM

From what I have read, a good deal of this spread is due to school age children and young adults, both of whom are populations that are not eligible to be vaccinated yet in the UK.

Quote from: cheebs09 on June 09, 2021, 01:32:07 PM

Yea, my cousin is there and just got the first shot after many, many tries. It seems like where we were a few months ago.

That could actually be a sign of high demand, which is a good thing in the long run.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 09, 2021, 02:38:47 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on June 09, 2021, 01:43:48 PM

I stand corrected.

In all fairness, the numbers I found don't match Fluffy's.

I see 59-60% with at least their first dose.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on June 09, 2021, 03:05:38 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 09, 2021, 02:38:47 PM

In all fairness, the numbers I found don't match Fluffy's.

I see 59-60% with at least their first dose.

It's always important to note data sources and ages,
For 18+ UK is 77.3% / 54.2% (1st/2nd)
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations

For US 18+ is 63.8 / 53.1 (1st/fully)
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations

Now, the UK is always listing 1st/2nd dose, I'm not sure if they have a 1 dose option approved.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Billy Hoyle on June 09, 2021, 03:08:21 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on June 09, 2021, 01:09:26 PM

The UK’s cases have been going up, due greatly to the Delta variant from India.

I'm not surprised the Delta variant arrived. Thankfully, the Spirit variant will be quite late, if it arrives at all.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 09, 2021, 03:16:20 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on June 09, 2021, 03:05:38 PM

It's always important to note data sources and ages,
For 18+ UK is 77.3% / 54.2% (1st/2nd)
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations

For US 18+ is 63.8 / 53.1 (1st/fully)
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations

Now, the UK is always listing 1st/2nd dose, I'm not sure if they have a 1 dose option approved.

important factor added here is the 18+

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on June 09, 2021, 03:32:44 PM

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on June 09, 2021, 03:08:21 PM

I'm not surprised the Delta variant arrived. Thankfully, the Spirit variant will be quite late, if it arrives at all.

I see what you did there.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on June 09, 2021, 04:11:42 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 09, 2021, 03:16:20 PM

important factor added here is the 18+

Agreed, that's important.  But I also didn't easily see UK "all population" numbers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 09, 2021, 04:17:30 PM

Sorry I got my figures from here, and they are 18+, so I was not likely comparing apples to apples.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/new-covid-19-variant-rising-cases-spark-fears-over-u-n1270093

"Around three-quarters of Britain's adult population has received at least one dose of a coronavirus vaccine, and more than 40 percent have received two doses."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on June 10, 2021, 09:11:32 AM

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20210609-how-long-will-long-covid-last

Trying to solve the puzzle of long Covid.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Billy Hoyle on June 11, 2021, 04:24:37 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on June 09, 2021, 03:32:44 PM

I see what you did there.

 ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 13, 2021, 12:02:12 PM

As the delta variant of the coronavirus spreads in southeastern China, doctors say they are finding that the symptoms are different and more dangerous than those they saw when the initial version of the virus started spreading in late 2019 in the central city of Wuhan.

Patients are becoming sicker, and their conditions are worsening much more quickly, doctors told state-run television Thursday and Friday. Four-fifths of symptomatic cases developed fevers, they said, although it was not clear how that compared with earlier cases. The virus concentrations that are detected in their bodies climb to levels higher than previously seen and then decline only slowly, the doctors said.

Up to 12% of patients become severely or critically ill within three to four days of the onset of symptoms, said Guan Xiangdong, director of critical care medicine at Sun Yat-sen University in the city of Guangzhou, where the outbreak has been centered. In the past, the proportion had been 2% or 3%.


It’s the end of the world as we know it, …..

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 13, 2021, 03:40:46 PM

Quote from: Jockey on June 13, 2021, 12:02:12 PM

As the delta variant of the coronavirus spreads in southeastern China, doctors say they are finding that the symptoms are different and more dangerous than those they saw when the initial version of the virus started spreading in late 2019 in the central city of Wuhan.

Patients are becoming sicker, and their conditions are worsening much more quickly, doctors told state-run television Thursday and Friday. Four-fifths of symptomatic cases developed fevers, they said, although it was not clear how that compared with earlier cases. The virus concentrations that are detected in their bodies climb to levels higher than previously seen and then decline only slowly, the doctors said.

Up to 12% of patients become severely or critically ill within three to four days of the onset of symptoms, said Guan Xiangdong, director of critical care medicine at Sun Yat-sen University in the city of Guangzhou, where the outbreak has been centered. In the past, the proportion had been 2% or 3%.

In other words, the common cold.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on June 14, 2021, 11:11:44 AM

Quote from: Jockey on June 13, 2021, 12:02:12 PM

As the delta variant of the coronavirus spreads in southeastern China, doctors say they are finding that the symptoms are different and more dangerous than those they saw when the initial version of the virus started spreading in late 2019 in the central city of Wuhan.

Patients are becoming sicker, and their conditions are worsening much more quickly, doctors told state-run television Thursday and Friday. Four-fifths of symptomatic cases developed fevers, they said, although it was not clear how that compared with earlier cases. The virus concentrations that are detected in their bodies climb to levels higher than previously seen and then decline only slowly, the doctors said.

Up to 12% of patients become severely or critically ill within three to four days of the onset of symptoms, said Guan Xiangdong, director of critical care medicine at Sun Yat-sen University in the city of Guangzhou, where the outbreak has been centered. In the past, the proportion had been 2% or 3%.


It’s the end of the world as we know it, …..

And yet the current vaccines are effective against the variant, are they not?

Get the unnatural carnal knowledgeing vaccine.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 14, 2021, 12:10:10 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on June 14, 2021, 11:11:44 AM

And yet the current vaccines are effective against the variant, are they not?

Get the unnatural carnal knowledgeing vaccine.

Yup!!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 17, 2021, 02:57:55 PM

https://thewire.in/government/uttarakhand-govt-orders-fir-against-labs-for-fake-covid-tests-during-kumbh

Presented without comment

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on June 17, 2021, 03:48:13 PM

There are countries that have banned direct flights from India and are requiring anyone on a connecting flight to present a negative  test from a third country not from India..

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on June 17, 2021, 04:16:48 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 17, 2021, 02:57:55 PM

https://thewire.in/government/uttarakhand-govt-orders-fir-against-labs-for-fake-covid-tests-during-kumbh

Presented without comment

Not at all surprising.  Speaking to colleagues in India, each knew multiple people who traveled with fake COVID results, mostly to HK, Dubai, and Bangkok for work purposes.  These are people with money and means, not used to being told they can't do anything.  Testing has been a challenge even for people like that, depending on timing and location, so they just circumvent the system and go.  Its a mess across the board in all facets.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on June 17, 2021, 06:47:35 PM

There’s a guy who’s been posting on various TripAdvisor forums for months about circumventing quarantine requirements in various places, including when returning to India, and then professes great astonishment when people call him out. Not surprising that a lot of people flying from India were testing positive in places like Australia and Canada, as many in all likelihood were using false tests.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on June 18, 2021, 07:52:56 AM

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/7737494002?__twitter_impression=true

Starting to get a really bad feeling about what might come from an actual independent investigation of all this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on June 18, 2021, 08:04:37 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on June 18, 2021, 07:52:56 AM

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/7737494002?__twitter_impression=true

Starting to get a really bad feeling about what might come from an actual independent investigation of all this.

Sure you are Cheeks II.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on June 18, 2021, 01:52:09 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on June 18, 2021, 07:52:56 AM

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/7737494002?__twitter_impression=true

Starting to get a really bad feeling about what might come from an actual independent investigation of all this.

I believe your bad feeling is unfounded. Even in the article Fauci says he still thinks it's an animal host:

Quote

“I always had an open mind,” he said, “even though I felt then, and still do, the most likely origin was in an animal host.”

And the Chinese didn't/aren't going to allow a proper investigation, so we'll probably never know if it was purely environmental, or just an escape from the lab.

What kind of fallout are you imagining?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 18, 2021, 01:57:35 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on June 18, 2021, 07:52:56 AM

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/7737494002?__twitter_impression=true

Starting to get a really bad feeling about what might come from an actual independent investigation of all this.

If only you had gotten a really bad feeling when the previous occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue disabled America's pandemic response team and ignored the pandemic playbook.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on June 18, 2021, 02:30:28 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on June 18, 2021, 01:52:09 PM

I believe your bad feeling is unfounded. Even in the article Fauci says he still thinks it's an animal host:

And the Chinese didn't/aren't going to allow a proper investigation, so we'll probably never know if it was purely environmental, or just an escape from the lab.

What kind of fallout are you imagining?

The distracting kind, if he's honest with himself of course.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 18, 2021, 03:31:01 PM

I know Connecticut is in a very good place.  Announced this morning we have the lowest statewide hospitalizations % since March 18, 2020.  About when the pandemic began.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 18, 2021, 04:22:59 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 18, 2021, 03:31:01 PM

I know Connecticut is in a very good place.  Announced this morning we have the lowest statewide hospitalizations % since March 18, 2020.  About when the pandemic began.

Way to go, Nutmeggers!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on June 18, 2021, 04:57:40 PM

Quote from: MU82 on June 18, 2021, 04:22:59 PM

Way to go, Nutmeggers!

Hey, no need for derogatory name calling! ;D

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 18, 2021, 09:23:18 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on June 18, 2021, 04:57:40 PM

Hey, no need for derogatory name calling! ;D

It's actually been a state subject lately.  Nutmeggers is most common, but based on a swindling of Southerners from post-Civil war period.  There's also the English formal Connecticans and Connecticuters.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on June 19, 2021, 07:56:51 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 18, 2021, 09:23:18 PM

It's actually been a state subject lately.  Nutmeggers is most common, but based on a swindling of Southerners from post-Civil war period.  There's also the English formal Connecticans and Connecticuters.

I assumed it was because they drank a lot of egg nog.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 19, 2021, 12:21:43 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 18, 2021, 09:23:18 PM

It's actually been a state subject lately.  Nutmeggers is most common, but based on a swindling of Southerners from post-Civil war period.  There's also the English formal Connecticans and Connecticuters.

I always liked Connecticutians.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 19, 2021, 01:12:17 PM

Quote from: MU82 on June 19, 2021, 12:21:43 PM

I always liked Connecticutians.

Are they better people than Illinesians?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on June 19, 2021, 05:34:13 PM

Care to guess what the sick and dead had in common?
A COVID-19 outbreak at a Florida county building killed 2 IT staffers and hospitalized 3 others

https://news.yahoo.com/covid-19-outbreak-florida-county-172917026.html

None of the employees who fell ill or died from COVID-19 were "elderly," he said. Hopes told the Herald he feared that the severe cases may be a result of one of the stronger variants of COVID-19.
__________________

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 19, 2021, 08:05:59 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on June 19, 2021, 05:34:13 PM

Care to guess what the sick and dead had in common?
A COVID-19 outbreak at a Florida county building killed 2 IT staffers and hospitalized 3 others

https://news.yahoo.com/covid-19-outbreak-florida-county-172917026.html

None of the employees who fell ill or died from COVID-19 were "elderly," he said. Hopes told the Herald he feared that the severe cases may be a result of one of the stronger variants of COVID-19.
__________________

As long as they weren’t “killed” by a woman being in control of her own body, the DeSantisians don’t care.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on June 19, 2021, 10:02:26 PM

The article says that when the building reopens, masks will be required. I thought DeSantis prohibited government offices requiring masks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on June 20, 2021, 05:52:18 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on June 19, 2021, 05:34:13 PM

Care to guess what the sick and dead had in common?
A COVID-19 outbreak at a Florida county building killed 2 IT staffers and hospitalized 3 others

https://news.yahoo.com/covid-19-outbreak-florida-county-172917026.html

None of the employees who fell ill or died from COVID-19 were "elderly," he said. Hopes told the Herald he feared that the severe cases may be a result of one of the stronger variants of COVID-19.
__________________

Key line:

"a sixth person who worked in close contact with the infected people was vaccinated against COVID-19 and did not contract the virus".


The dead guys will have plenty of time to get more scientific data about the vaccine so they can make a good decision.

Get vaccinated, people!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on June 23, 2021, 03:42:01 PM

Saw a promising sign today.  I was at a major retailer today and they had a big display set up with no-touch body temp thermometers at 75% off, along with gallon jugs of disinfectant marked down to 28 cents each.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 23, 2021, 03:45:18 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on June 23, 2021, 03:42:01 PM

Saw a promising sign today.  I was at a major retailer today and they had a big display set up with no-touch body temp thermometers at 75% off, along with gallon jugs of disinfectant marked down to 28 cents each.

Office Depot/Office max had a pallet with hand sanitizer going for 10 cents per.  What a world.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 23, 2021, 05:12:15 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 23, 2021, 03:45:18 PM

Office Depot/Office max had a pallet with hand sanitizer going for 10 cents per.  What a world.

Damn ... I think I'll get there and buy me a few dozen of those for when the Delta Variant pandemic lockdowns start.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on June 23, 2021, 07:53:14 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 23, 2021, 03:45:18 PM

Office Depot/Office max had a pallet with hand sanitizer going for 10 cents per.  What a world.

Yeah, local distillery was offering up cases for free if you picked them up.  I'm waiting for the Bourbon to be discounted like that :)

A lot of over-production and price gouging was happening during the winter.  I saw a distillery (different distillery) selling them (trying to sell?) for $35 for a 750ml bottle.  Their booze was cheaper!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on June 23, 2021, 08:21:41 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on June 23, 2021, 07:53:14 PM

Yeah, local distillery was offering up cases for free if you picked them up.  I'm waiting for the Bourbon to be discounted like that :)

A lot of over-production and price gouging was happening during the winter.  I saw a distillery (different distillery) selling them (trying to sell?) for $35 for a 750ml bottle.  Their booze was cheaper!

'Murica!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on July 01, 2021, 08:30:30 PM

Quote from: tower912 on June 01, 2021, 08:18:56 PM

The India variant is in America.  This isn't over.

Now referred to as Delta.   If you aren't vaccinated, buckle up.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on July 01, 2021, 08:49:21 PM

Quote from: tower912 on July 01, 2021, 08:30:30 PM

Now referred to as Delta.   If you aren't vaccinated, buckle up.   

The CDC has kept this reasonably up to date - https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/variant-info.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on July 04, 2021, 09:41:19 PM

https://twitter.com/fcn2go/status/1411475090877812736?s=21

Surfside Condo rescue has had several COVID-19 positives. 7 members of Jacksonville Fire and Rescue sent home.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on July 05, 2021, 04:59:34 PM

116 new COVID-19 positive cases at the hospital in Springfield, MO. All 47 ventilators are spoken for, so they are getting more from affiliated hospitals in Arkansas and St. Louis.

Almost exactly a year ago, Missouri Governor Mike Parson July 2020 spoke at a Cattlemen’s association meeting. Most of the attendees, including Parson, were not wearing masks. (Parson and his wife later contracted COVID-19) At the July 2020 meeting, Parson said,

“These kids have to get back to school…and if they do get COVID-19, which they will, they’re not going to the hospitals.”

The vaccine has been widely available for several months. There are plenty of vaccines available, but ventilators are in short supply.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on July 05, 2021, 07:09:29 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on July 05, 2021, 04:59:34 PM

116 new COVID-19 positive cases at the hospital in Springfield, MO. All 47 ventilators are spoken for, so they are getting more from affiliated hospitals in Arkansas and St. Louis.

Almost exactly a year ago, Missouri Governor Mike Parson July 2020 spoke at a Cattlemen’s association meeting. Most of the attendees, including Parson, were not wearing masks. (Parson and his wife later contracted COVID-19) At the July 2020 meeting, Parson said,

“These kids have to get back to school…and if they do get COVID-19, which they will, they’re not going to the hospitals.”

The vaccine has been widely available for several months. There are plenty of vaccines available, but ventilators are in short supply.

Im struggling to see what this quote has to do with the above situation unless the implication is kids caused the spread or you’re attributing this outbreak to the governor and thus want to illuminate it with a quote you found dumb a year ago.

At this point, if you’re hospitalized from COVID, it’s your fault plain and simple. Not kids in school, not the governor of your state and their policies from 2020, or any other official.  It’s opting out of a widely distributed and available vaccine that could avoid this, or, if you’re indeed one of the minute few who can’t get the vaccine for whatever reason, not taking proper measures otherwise

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on July 06, 2021, 08:03:59 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on July 05, 2021, 07:09:29 PM

Im struggling to see what this quote has to do with the above situation unless the implication is kids caused the spread or you’re attributing this outbreak to the governor and thus want to illuminate it with a quote you found dumb a year ago.

At this point, if you’re hospitalized from COVID, it’s your fault plain and simple. Not kids in school, not the governor of your state and their policies from 2020, or any other official.  It’s opting out of a widely distributed and available vaccine that could avoid this, or, if you’re indeed one of the minute few who can’t get the vaccine for whatever reason, not taking proper measures otherwise

This is the COVID-19 thread. If you don’t like the COVID-19 thread or if you are uninterested in the Pandemic that we still have, troll and be disingenuous elsewhere. The Governor and everyone else that made a science and health issue an political issue with their words and policies, often for personal power, are most certainly in part responsible. Saying anything otherwise is trolling and disingenuous. But you knew that already.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 06, 2021, 08:11:16 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on July 06, 2021, 08:03:59 AM

This is the COVID-19 thread. If you don’t like the COVID-19 thread or if you are uninterested in the Pandemic that we still have, troll and be disingenuous elsewhere.

Sorry no.  He's not being a troll.  He is rightfully asking what bringing up a quote from a year ago has to do with the situation at hand now.  Kids going back to school isn't the issue.  Lack of vaccinations is.

Now you COULD say that laws banning vaccine passports, like the one he just signed, is part of the issue that downplays the need for vaccines.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on July 06, 2021, 08:19:38 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 06, 2021, 08:11:16 AM

Sorry no.  He's not being a troll.  He is rightfully asking what bringing up a quote from a year ago has to do with the situation at hand now.  Kids going back to school isn't the issue.  Lack of vaccinations is.

Now you COULD say that laws banning vaccine passports, like the one he just signed, is part of the issue that downplays the need for vaccines.

He already knew these things. He’s either entirely uninformed before posting on the topic, or very disingenuous. I’ll let you choose.

To say that this Governor or (insert other example here) are not in part responsible isn’t being genuine about the topic. Signing these laws, no mask mandates, throwing parties during the pandemic. These have been documented not only elsewhere but here as well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 06, 2021, 08:25:38 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on July 06, 2021, 08:19:38 AM

He already knew these things. He’s either entirely uninformed before posting on the topic, or very disingenuous. I’ll let you choose.

To say that this Governor or (insert other example here) are not in part responsible isn’t being genuine about the topic. Signing these laws, no mask mandates, throwing parties during the pandemic. These have been documented not only elsewhere but here as well.

Wags called you out for something.  You responded not by any sort of counterpoint, but by calling him a troll.  That is a dismissive comment that is inherently weak. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on July 06, 2021, 08:28:36 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 06, 2021, 08:25:38 AM

Wags called you out for something.  You responded not by any sort of counterpoint, but by calling him a troll.  That is a dismissive comment that is inherently weak.

He said the lack of vaccinations had nothing to do with the governor. That is trolling and being disingenuous.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 06, 2021, 08:31:44 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on July 06, 2021, 08:28:36 AM

He said the lack of vaccinations had nothing to do with the governor. That is trolling and being disingenuous.

No.  It's an opinion.  Are you really that insecure that when people express opinions different than yours that you dismiss them by labelling them a "troll" versus actually making an intelligent counterpoint?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on July 06, 2021, 08:37:20 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 06, 2021, 08:31:44 AM

No.  It's an opinion.  Are you really that insecure that when people express opinions different than yours that you dismiss them by labelling them a "troll" versus actually making an intelligent counterpoint?

It’s not an intelligent counterpoint to say that this specific governor has nothing to do with lack of vaccinations in his state based on this governor’s history, no.

That isn’t the same as having a disagreement of opinion. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 06, 2021, 08:38:45 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on July 06, 2021, 08:37:20 AM

It’s not an intelligent counterpoint to say that this specific governor has nothing to do with lack of vaccinations in his state based on this governor’s history, no. 

Cool.  Then say that.  Provide examples.

Dismissing him as a troll does none of those things.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on July 06, 2021, 08:41:25 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 06, 2021, 08:38:45 AM

Cool.  Then say that.  Provide examples.

Dismissing him as a troll does none of those things.

I have already said it multiple times in the posts above you. I have also provided several examples of this same person previously in this thread.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on July 06, 2021, 10:15:55 AM

My statement had nothing to do with trolling or being disingenuous.  It wasn't even a defense of Mike Parson.  It was solely about the quote and genuinely not getting what it had to do with the here and now.  Without even looking, I'm sure, given Parson's history and track record, he has said or done things to inhibit ideological acceptance of vaccines within his base or causing people to not take COVID seriously in general in the year since that quote about kids and schools.

Like I said, if the purpose of the quote was to illuminate reckless or poor governance by Parson, it just seemed odd cause there is ample evidence otherwise.

Is it my personal belief that by this point I blame individuals more than politicians for vaccination hesitancy or avoidance?  Absolutely.  But I also tend to downplay the direct influence of most elected officials on people's day to day behavior.

I'm far from a troll and regularly engage in honest and thoughtful discussion around COVID on this board with various people, often those I dont fully agree with.  Repeatedly calling me disingenuous and labeling my opinions or thoughts as "not intelligent" cause I don't line up perfectly ideologically with you is just garbage.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on July 06, 2021, 10:43:20 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on July 06, 2021, 10:15:55 AM

My statement had nothing to do with trolling or being disingenuous.  It wasn't even a defense of Mike Parson.  It was solely about the quote and genuinely not getting what it had to do with the here and now.  Without even looking, I'm sure, given Parson's history and track record, he has said or done things to inhibit ideological acceptance of vaccines within his base or causing people to not take COVID seriously in general in the year since that quote about kids and schools.

Like I said, if the purpose of the quote was to illuminate reckless or poor governance by Parson, it just seemed odd cause there is ample evidence otherwise.

Is it my personal belief that by this point I blame individuals more than politicians for vaccination hesitancy or avoidance?  Absolutely.  But I also tend to downplay the direct influence of most elected officials on people's day to day behavior.

I'm far from a troll and regularly engage in honest and thoughtful discussion around COVID on this board with various people, often those I dont fully agree with.  Repeatedly calling me disingenuous and labeling my opinions or thoughts as "not intelligent" cause I don't line up perfectly ideologically with you is just garbage.

Downplaying the direct influence of elected officials on some people’s day to day behavior either isn’t being genuine, or, it’s an inability to see much of the world outside of your limited purview.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on July 06, 2021, 10:56:55 AM

Quote from: shoothoops on July 06, 2021, 10:43:20 AM

Downplaying the direct influence of elected officials on some people’s day to day behavior either isn’t being genuine, or, it’s an inability to see much of the world outside of your limited purview.

Never change man. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 06, 2021, 11:24:56 AM

Aren't Wags and Hoops both right, here?

I agree 100% with Wags that refusal to be vaccinated in on individuals. They make their own decisions.

But, people don't just make their decisions in a vacuum. I think the single biggest one is politics. Actually, I know it is because there is a ton of actual evidence that that is the case. Hence, we have hoops argument.


Lastly, I think Dr. Fluffy should be one of the last people here calling out others for name-calling.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on July 06, 2021, 11:47:20 AM

Quote from: Jockey on July 06, 2021, 11:24:56 AM

Aren't Wags and Hoops both right, here?

I agree 100% with Wags that refusal to be vaccinated in on individuals. They make their own decisions.

But, people don't just make their decisions in a vacuum. I think the single biggest one is politics. Actually, I know it is because there is a ton of actual evidence that that is the case. Hence, we have hoops argument.


Lastly, I think Dr. Fluffy should be one of the last people here calling out others for name-calling.

The point I made is that there is a segment of the population whose decisions on some of these topics are heavily influenced by some public and political figures. Saying that segment of the population does not exist is not factually correct. It isn’t an opinion. They exist. They are real people.

Saying those public and political officials are not in part responsible for the results of these decisions is not being genuine. Of course they are. It’s not okay to intentionally manipulate some people to jeopardize their own safety and the safety of others.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 06, 2021, 12:14:38 PM

Quote from: Jockey on July 06, 2021, 11:24:56 AM

Aren't Wags and Hoops both right, here?

I agree 100% with Wags that refusal to be vaccinated in on individuals. They make their own decisions.

But, people don't just make their decisions in a vacuum. I think the single biggest one is politics. Actually, I know it is because there is a ton of actual evidence that that is the case. Hence, we have hoops argument.


Lastly, I think Dr. Fluffy should be one of the last people here calling out others for name-calling.

I didn't call him out for "name calling."  Reading comprehension would help you here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 06, 2021, 12:41:29 PM

Sad but eye-opening Washington Post piece about how some nurses have been scarred by COVID-19 -- not just by dealing with infected patients, but also by the disinformation campaigns they faced in their own communities.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/07/06/appalachian-covid-deniers-nurses-virginia/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F341699e%2F60e484959d2fda8060f9535c%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F8%2F72%2F60e484959d2fda8060f9535c

A few paragraphs from the article:

They were enduring the traumas known to ICU workers across the world: days filled with death, nights ruined by dreams in which they found themselves at infected patients’ bedsides without masks. But they were also enduring a trauma that many doctors and nurses elsewhere were not: the suspicion and derision of those they risked their lives to protect.

Conspiracy theories about the pandemic and lies recited on social media — or at White House news conferences — had penetrated deep into their community. When refrigerated trailers were brought in to relieve local hospitals’ overflowing morgues, people said they were stage props. Agitated and unmasked relatives stood outside the ICU insisting that their intubated relatives only had the flu. Many believed the doctors and nurses hailed elsewhere for their sacrifices were conspiring to make money by falsifying covid-19 diagnoses. ...

The post-traumatic stress experienced by nurses and doctors during the pandemic has been compared to what soldiers suffer. But in places still rife with covid denial — often rural, conservative and devoted to former president Donald Trump — there is a difference: It is like having fought in a war that many believe never took place.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on July 06, 2021, 12:48:54 PM

I know that I was positively un-civil when, after saying in a public place that I had had COVID and detailing my symptoms, having a troglodyte tell me I was lying.     Actually was a little cathartic going off on that pathetic person.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on July 06, 2021, 01:08:53 PM

Quote from: Jockey on July 06, 2021, 11:24:56 AM

Aren't Wags and Hoops both right, here?

I agree 100% with Wags that refusal to be vaccinated in on individuals. They make their own decisions.

But, people don't just make their decisions in a vacuum. I think the single biggest one is politics. Actually, I know it is because there is a ton of actual evidence that that is the case. Hence, we have hoops argument.

Sure.  I never said such people don't exist.  Some people make lifestyle choices on what their favorite athlete likes and some hang on their governor or president's every word.  But I think sometimes influence can be overstated when justifying people's personal choices, thats all.  Its an opinion, not a fact, people can have different opinions.  I never spoke in absolutes.  Just to personal choice on a vaccine that is widely and easily available.

I just don't appreciate being called a troll and disingenuous, and then repeatedly having my intelligence directly and indirectly called into question, then capped off with a crack about my "limited purview", all because I don't agree full wholeheartedly with someone who apparently thinks this board is their personal blog.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 06, 2021, 01:09:08 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 06, 2021, 12:14:38 PM

I didn't call him out for "name calling."  Reading comprehension would help you here.

So you got your doctoral degree in English?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 06, 2021, 10:13:07 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on July 06, 2021, 01:08:53 PM

Sure.  I never said such people don't exist.  Some people make lifestyle choices on what their favorite athlete likes and some hang on their governor or president's every word.  But I think sometimes influence can be overstated when justifying people's personal choices, thats all.  Its an opinion, not a fact, people can have different opinions.  I never spoke in absolutes.  Just to personal choice on a vaccine that is widely and easily available.

I just don't appreciate being called a troll and disingenuous, and then repeatedly having my intelligence directly and indirectly called into question, then capped off with a crack about my "limited purview", all because I don't agree full wholeheartedly with someone who apparently thinks this board is their personal blog.

💯!!!  At least you haven’t been called Chico yet, from what I understand that’s as bad as it gets.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on July 07, 2021, 08:40:52 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 06, 2021, 10:13:07 PM

💯!!!  At least you haven’t been called Chico yet, from what I understand that’s as bad as it gets.

It’s not so bad when you’re Chicos than it is when you’re like a chicos.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 08, 2021, 07:27:33 AM

From the NYT:

The world’s known coronavirus death toll passed four million on Thursday, a loss roughly equivalent to the population of Los Angeles, according to the Center for Systems Science and Engineering at Johns Hopkins University.

It took nine months for the virus to claim one million lives, and the pace has quickened since then. The second million were lost in three and a half months, the third in three months, and the fourth in about two and a half months. The number of daily reported deaths has declined recently.

Those are officially reported figures, which are widely believed to undercount pandemic-related deaths.

“The numbers may not tell the complete story, and yet they’re still really staggering numbers globally,” said Jennifer B. Nuzzo, an epidemiologist at Johns Hopkins University’s Bloomberg School of Public Health.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on July 08, 2021, 08:59:37 AM

Quote from: MU82 on July 06, 2021, 12:41:29 PM

Sad but eye-opening Washington Post piece about how some nurses have been scarred by COVID-19 -- not just by dealing with infected patients, but also by the disinformation campaigns they faced in their own communities.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/07/06/appalachian-covid-deniers-nurses-virginia/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F341699e%2F60e484959d2fda8060f9535c%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F8%2F72%2F60e484959d2fda8060f9535c

A few paragraphs from the article:

They were enduring the traumas known to ICU workers across the world: days filled with death, nights ruined by dreams in which they found themselves at infected patients’ bedsides without masks. But they were also enduring a trauma that many doctors and nurses elsewhere were not: the suspicion and derision of those they risked their lives to protect.

Conspiracy theories about the pandemic and lies recited on social media — or at White House news conferences — had penetrated deep into their community. When refrigerated trailers were brought in to relieve local hospitals’ overflowing morgues, people said they were stage props. Agitated and unmasked relatives stood outside the ICU insisting that their intubated relatives only had the flu. Many believed the doctors and nurses hailed elsewhere for their sacrifices were conspiring to make money by falsifying covid-19 diagnoses. ...

The post-traumatic stress experienced by nurses and doctors during the pandemic has been compared to what soldiers suffer. But in places still rife with covid denial — often rural, conservative and devoted to former president Donald Trump — there is a difference: It is like having fought in a war that many believe never took place.

An author/critical care nurse that I know wrote a memoir while processing the emotional trauma of a year of holding her in the dike of death we're all in such a rush to forget and ignore.

https://www.amazon.com/Year-Nurse-2020-Pandemic-Memoir-ebook/dp/B095PWYG3B

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 08, 2021, 09:05:54 AM

Quote from: jficke13 on July 08, 2021, 08:59:37 AM

An author/critical care nurse that I know wrote a memoir while processing the emotional trauma of a year of holding her in the dike of death we're all in such a rush to forget and ignore.

https://www.amazon.com/Year-Nurse-2020-Pandemic-Memoir-ebook/dp/B095PWYG3B

Thanks for the link. Sounds sad but interesting.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 08, 2021, 09:32:39 AM

Quote from: MU82 on July 08, 2021, 09:05:54 AM

Thanks for the link. Sounds sad but interesting.

Her other titles are... something.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on July 08, 2021, 09:46:35 AM

Japan to hold Olympics without spectators.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on July 08, 2021, 09:52:35 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on July 08, 2021, 09:32:39 AM

Her other titles are... something.

Yeah, she's got a niche. People are into it though. She's sold a heckuva lot more books than I have, so who am I to judge.

I've read some of the material in Year of the Nurse. It's a pretty visceral window into her experience.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 08, 2021, 10:45:20 AM

Quote from: jficke13 on July 08, 2021, 09:52:35 AM

Yeah, she's got a niche. People are into it though. She's sold a heckuva lot more books than I have, so who am I to judge.

I've read some of the material in Year of the Nurse. It's a pretty visceral window into her experience.

Yeah, not judging really... just a major departure from her typical genre!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 08, 2021, 11:12:37 AM

From the NYT:

The Delta variant of the coronavirus can evade antibodies that target certain parts of the virus, according to a new study published on Thursday in Nature. The findings provide an explanation for diminished effectiveness of the vaccines against Delta, compared with other variants.

The variant, first identified in India, is believed to be about 60 percent more contagious than Alpha, the version of the virus that thrashed Britain and much of Europe earlier this year, and perhaps twice as contagious as the original coronavirus. The Delta variant is now driving outbreaks among unvaccinated populations in countries like Malaysia, Portugal, Indonesia and Australia.

Delta is now the dominant variant in the United States. Infections in this country had plateaued at their lowest levels since early in the pandemic, although the numbers may be rising, while hospitalizations and deaths related to the virus have continued a steep plunge. That’s partly because of relatively high vaccination rates: 48 percent of Americans are fully vaccinated, and 55 percent have received at least one dose.

But the new study found that Delta was barely sensitive to one dose of vaccine, confirming previous research that suggested that the variant can partly evade the immune system — although to a lesser degree than Beta, the variant first identified in South Africa.

Can we please hear again that COVID-19 is "over"?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 08, 2021, 11:16:32 AM

Quote from: MU82 on July 08, 2021, 11:12:37 AM

From the NYT:

The Delta variant of the coronavirus can evade antibodies that target certain parts of the virus, according to a new study published on Thursday in Nature. The findings provide an explanation for diminished effectiveness of the vaccines against Delta, compared with other variants.

The variant, first identified in India, is believed to be about 60 percent more contagious than Alpha, the version of the virus that thrashed Britain and much of Europe earlier this year, and perhaps twice as contagious as the original coronavirus. The Delta variant is now driving outbreaks among unvaccinated populations in countries like Malaysia, Portugal, Indonesia and Australia.

Delta is now the dominant variant in the United States. Infections in this country had plateaued at their lowest levels since early in the pandemic, although the numbers may be rising, while hospitalizations and deaths related to the virus have continued a steep plunge. That’s partly because of relatively high vaccination rates: 48 percent of Americans are fully vaccinated, and 55 percent have received at least one dose.

But the new study found that Delta was barely sensitive to one dose of vaccine, confirming previous research that suggested that the variant can partly evade the immune system — although to a lesser degree than Beta, the variant first identified in South Africa.

Can we please hear again that COVID-19 is "over"?

For the fully vaccinated, it pretty much is.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 08, 2021, 11:27:48 AM

Hasn’t this become a Jonestown situation? Righties have drank the kool-aid that the vaccine is evil and dangerous. Hence 99% of Covid deaths are among the unvaccinated.

Isn’t this just another mass suicide situation for followers of a madman?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 08, 2021, 12:07:29 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 08, 2021, 11:16:32 AM

For the fully vaccinated, it pretty much is.

But it isn't.

Quote from: Jockey on July 08, 2021, 11:27:48 AM

Hasn’t this become a Jonestown situation? Righties have drank the kool-aid that the vaccine is evil and dangerous. Hence 99% of Covid deaths are among the unvaccinated.

Isn’t this just another mass suicide situation for followers of a madman?

Well, there are plenty of anti-vaxxers on the left, including a fairly large percentage of Black people.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 08, 2021, 12:14:16 PM

Quote from: MU82 on July 08, 2021, 12:07:29 PM

But it isn't.

Yeah it is.  Even vaccinated people who are getting sick, of which there are very few, they aren't being hospitalized or dying.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 08, 2021, 12:27:40 PM

Quote from: tower912 on July 08, 2021, 09:46:35 AM

Japan to hold Olympics without spectators.

It's simply ridiculous that they are holding them at all given their relative lack of vaccination and restrictions in place.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 08, 2021, 12:50:10 PM

Quote from: MU82 on July 08, 2021, 12:07:29 PM

But it isn't.

Well, there are plenty of anti-vaxxers on the left, including a fairly large percentage of Black people.

1. I agree with FBM. I basically take no precautions now. The only time I wear a mask is when it is required (rarely).

2. The hesitancy of blacks has a lot more to do with the history of their treatment in this country than it does with an anti-vaxxer belief.


Back to your 1st point, on a macro scale, you may be right. With the large number of unvaccinated, there will probably be a variant that the vaccines won't touch. But it won't matter, cause we'll all be dead in 6 months when that happens.

Finally back to Jonestown (or the comet people), people have shown that they are more than willing to die for silly, irrational, mad beliefs. And make no mistake, millions of people are told every day in this country that the vaccine (or the delivery of the vaccine) is evil. Call that statement politics if you want (FBM), but it is also fact. People who listen to that are dying by choice every day.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 08, 2021, 01:03:53 PM

This is why you can't talk about vaccinations without talking politics.

https://www.denverpost.com/2021/06/25/covid-19-vaccine-rates-donald-trump-joe-biden/

Republicans now face a moral dilemma — some of their constituents could needlessly die of COVID-19 infections if they don’t reject the partisan messaging from their party that underplays the risks of the virus and oversells the risks of vaccines.

The divide among the states is striking. Quite a few states will hit President Joe Biden’s goal to have 70% of adults vaccinated by July 4, and nearly all of those are states Biden won in last year’s presidential election. The states that are coming up short of the vaccine goal are those states won by then-President Donald Trump.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on July 08, 2021, 01:56:27 PM

Quote from: Jockey on July 08, 2021, 12:50:10 PM

1. I agree with FBM. I basically take no precautions now. The only time I wear a mask is when it is required (rarely).

2. The hesitancy of blacks has a lot more to do with the history of their treatment in this country than it does with an anti-vaxxer belief.

I think point 1 is messaging.  I feel like every day I see some ancedotal story about someone vaccinated catching COVID.  But its nothing more.  Its not ventilators or death.  Its just clickbait really.

But to point 2, I understand why they don't, and its tragic.  But its doesn't make them any less anti-vaxxer.  It doesnt matter if you avoid vaccines because of politics, or because you don't trust the government for any number of reasons including historical atrocities, or because your medical beliefs revolve around crystals and essential oils...if you don't get vaccinated, you're an anti-vaxxer.  A lot of those aforementioned black people avoid many vaccines, not just this one.  Its become kind of a buzzword but some anti-vaxxers do have some reasonable thought behind it (speaking mostly to the minority community) even if it harms them long run.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 08, 2021, 07:29:03 PM

A country music festival in Colorado that featured many popular performers has led to a COVID-19 outbreak, officials say. Officials with the Colorado Department of Public Health & Environment say four staff members and 13 attendees from the Country Jam festival in Grand Junction got COVID-19 after attending the three-day event.

Attendees at the festival were urged to wear face masks, but they were not required. The festival asked patrons to keep a minimum of 3 feet of social distancing from people not in their group. The festival also featured a COVID-19 vaccine clinic, according to The Daily Sentinel.

A couple from Arvada, Colorado, believe they got the virus from the festival. The vaccinated couple told KMGH it was the first concert they had attended since the COVID-19 pandemic began.

Mesa County, where the festival was, has more cases of the delta variant than any county in Colorado, according to Kaiser Health News.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on July 08, 2021, 07:57:05 PM

Wisconsin now averaging zero deaths from covid. Time to move along and get on with life. Its over, aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on July 08, 2021, 10:17:11 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on July 08, 2021, 07:57:05 PM

Wisconsin now averaging zero deaths from covid. Time to move along and get on with life. Its over, aina?

Nah, nads is still finding one off cases and posting them here, hey.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on July 08, 2021, 11:59:18 PM

Quote from: MU82 on July 08, 2021, 07:29:03 PM

four staff members and 13 attendees from the Country Jam festival in Grand Junction got COVID-19 after attending the three-day event.

I mean, CO has a delta variant "outbreak", but:
https://tasteofcountry.com/country-jam-colorado-festival-covid-19-outbreak/

Quote

Grand Junction's Daily Sentinel reported crowds of up to 24,000 each night during Country Jam

So 17/72,000 = .023% diagnosed (0.00023).  More people probably ended up with dehydration from the event.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 09, 2021, 07:03:50 AM

Quote from: MU82 on July 08, 2021, 07:29:03 PM

A country music festival in Colorado that featured many popular performers has led to a COVID-19 outbreak, officials say. Officials with the Colorado Department of Public Health & Environment say four staff members and 13 attendees from the Country Jam festival in Grand Junction got COVID-19 after attending the three-day event.

Are we sure they didn't get sick just from having to listen to country music for three days?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 09, 2021, 09:15:25 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on July 09, 2021, 07:03:50 AM

Are we sure they didn't get sick just from having to listen to country music for three days?

 ;D ;D

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 09, 2021, 10:56:54 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on July 08, 2021, 11:59:18 PM

I mean, CO has a delta variant "outbreak", but:
https://tasteofcountry.com/country-jam-colorado-festival-covid-19-outbreak/
So 17/72,000 = .023% diagnosed (0.00023).  More people probably ended up with dehydration from the event.

MU82 doesn’t really put things in context.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 09, 2021, 04:13:02 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on July 09, 2021, 07:03:50 AM

Are we sure they didn't get sick just from having to listen to country music for three days?

I’d rather get Covid.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 09, 2021, 05:31:30 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on July 09, 2021, 07:03:50 AM

Are we sure they didn't get sick just from having to listen to country music for three days?

Funny.

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 09, 2021, 10:56:54 AM

MU82 doesn’t really put things in context.

Thanks, passive-aggressive Scoop Posting Police!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 14, 2021, 07:30:30 AM

From the AP:

The COVID-19 curve in the U.S. is rising again after months of decline, with the number of new cases per day doubling over the past three weeks, driven by the fast-spreading delta variant, lagging vaccination rates and Fourth of July gatherings.

Confirmed infections climbed to an average of about 23,600 a day on Monday, up from 11,300 on June 23, according to Johns Hopkins University data. And all but two states — Maine and South Dakota — reported that case numbers have gone up over the past two weeks.

At the same time, parts of the country are running up against deep vaccine resistance, while the highly contagious mutant version of the coronavirus that was first detected in India is accounting for an ever-larger share of infections.

Nationally, 55.6% of all Americans have received at least one COVID-19 shot, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The five states with the biggest two-week jump in cases per capita all had lower vaccination rates: Missouri, 45.9%; Arkansas, 43%; Nevada, 50.9%; Louisiana, 39.2%; and Utah, 49.5%.

Even with the latest surge, cases in the U.S. are nowhere near their peak of a quarter-million per day in January. And deaths are running at under 260 per day on average after topping out at more than 3,400 over the winter — a testament to how effectively the vaccine can prevent serious illness and death in those who happen to become infected.

Still, amid the rise, health authorities in places such as Los Angeles County and St. Louis are begging even immunized people to resume wearing masks in public. And Chicago officials announced Tuesday that unvaccinated travelers from Missouri and Arkansas must either quarantine for 10 days or have a negative COVID-19 test.

Meanwhile, officials at the Health Department in Mississippi, which ranks dead last in vaccination rates, are recommending that people 65 and older and those with chronic underlying conditions stay away from large indoor gatherings because of a 150% rise in hospitalizations over the past three weeks.

In Louisiana, which also has one of the nation’s lowest vaccination rates ... health officials said cases of the coronavirus are surging, largely among nonvaccinated people.

Dr. James Lawler, a leader of the Global Center for Health Security at the University of Nebraska Medical Center in Omaha, warned that what is happening in Britain is a preview of what’s to come in the U.S.

“The descriptions from regions of the world where the delta variant has taken hold and become the predominant virus are pictures of ICUs full of 30-year-olds. That’s what the critical care doctors describe and that’s what’s coming to the U.S.,” he said.

He added: “I think people have no clue what’s about to hit us.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on July 14, 2021, 07:37:23 AM

Inevitable.   Americans won't because we have the narcissistic mindset, but we should start wearing masks again.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 14, 2021, 07:54:00 AM

Get vaccinated.  In places where the delta variant has taken hold, vaccinated people are not being hospitalized.

And my desire to go back to wearing a mask is about at 0%.  I have done what I need to do to make society safe.  If others don't want to do what is painfully obvious that they need to do, that's on them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 14, 2021, 07:57:54 AM

From the Wall Street Journal:

https://apple.news/AYGCnt2Q5Tti1f3bXiXBXdg

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on July 14, 2021, 07:58:09 AM

Nothin' ta cee heer. Kari on, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 14, 2021, 08:07:43 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on July 14, 2021, 07:58:09 AM

Nothin' ta cee heer. Kari on, hey?

If history is an indicator, this probably is wrong but one thing Americans love is, willful ignorance. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 14, 2021, 08:09:54 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 14, 2021, 07:54:00 AM

Get vaccinated.  In places where the delta variant has taken hold, vaccinated people are not being hospitalized.

And my desire to go back to wearing a mask is about at 0%.  I have done what I need to do to make society safe.  If others don't want to do what is painfully obvious that they need to do, that's on them.

So you don’t care what happens to them? I’m trying to think of a word to describe that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 14, 2021, 08:17:16 AM

Quote from: Jockey on July 14, 2021, 08:09:54 AM

So you don’t care what happens to them? I’m trying to think of a word to describe that.

I care very much what happens to them.  Unlike you, I don't want them to get sick and die for the sake of scoring political points.  But they control their ability to be healthy and to live.  It's not my fault that they don't take advantage of that.

It's similar to my feelings that my ability to buy Ho Hos should not be infringed because some people have an obesity problem.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jsglow on July 14, 2021, 08:18:54 AM

Quote from: Jockey on July 14, 2021, 08:09:54 AM

So you don’t care what happens to them? I’m trying to think of a word to describe that.

Sultan cares.  So does most everyone.  But the solution is in their hands, not his any longer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 14, 2021, 08:19:45 AM

Quote from: tower912 on July 14, 2021, 07:37:23 AM

Inevitable.   Americans won't because we have the narcissistic mindset, but we should start wearing masks again.

I don't know that this is true.  US, Israel, UK are all in a different state for the pandemic. US/Israel in a slightly better position because mRNA.  I have been and continue to be for public health measures but defaulting to this doesn't take into account all that have stepped up and gotten fully vaccinated. 

At this point having No-Vaxers wear masks and getting more vaxxed is our best public health actions.  If people don't want to do that, I don't know how to help them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 14, 2021, 08:24:32 AM

Right.  And it takes away a key motivational factor to actually get vaccinated. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 14, 2021, 08:35:33 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 14, 2021, 08:17:16 AM

I care very much what happens to them.  Unlike you, I don't want them to get sick and die for the sake of scoring political points.  But they control their ability to be healthy and to live.  It's not my fault that they don't take advantage of that.

It's similar to my feelings that my ability to buy Ho Hos should not be infringed because some people have an obesity problem.

So you're not at all concerned that the millions upon millions upon millions of people who refuse to get the vaccine -- most (but nowhere near all) living in the south -- will enable COVID-19 to mutate into something that even vaccines won't prevent?

And of course, it isn't just people affecting themselves now. For example, anti-vax adults are preventing their teenagers and other kids from getting vaccines. And kids are very susceptible to the highly contagious Delta variant. And those kids can pass it on to others. As the article said, it's the young people who are starting to fill up the ICUs. It's akin to an adult who doesn't want to wear a seatbelt being stoopid enough, but as soon as he also won't let his kid wear a seatbelt, he's worst than just stoopid.

Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 14, 2021, 08:07:43 AM

If history is an indicator, this probably is wrong but one thing Americans love is, willful ignorance. 

It sure would be swell if governors and lawmakers in the most affected states would spent 1/10th as much time and energy pushing for their constituents to get life-saving vaccines as they do trying to subvert democracy through voter-suppression legislation. Heck, some of these sickos are passing laws that OUTLAW any consequences for the unvaccinated.

I guess the hundreds of Americans still dying every day from COVID-19 aren't part of the "all" in "all lives matter."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 14, 2021, 08:39:40 AM

Quote from: MU82 on July 14, 2021, 08:35:33 AM

So you're not at all concerned that the millions upon millions upon millions of people who refuse to get the vaccine -- most (but nowhere near all) living in the south -- will enable COVID-19 to mutate into something that even vaccines won't prevent?

Am I concerned about that hypothetical?  Sure.  That's why I want people to get vaccinated.  But as an asymptomatic vaccinated person, I would only carry a minute amount of the virus (at most).  Not enough to spread to others.

Quote from: MU82 on July 14, 2021, 08:35:33 AM

And of course, it isn't just people affecting themselves now. For example, anti-vax adults are preventing their teenagers and other kids from getting vaccines. And kids are very susceptible to the highly contagious Delta variant. And those kids can pass it on to others. As the article said, it's the young people who are starting to fill up the ICUs. It's akin to an adult who doesn't want to wear a seatbelt being stoopid enough, but as soon as he also won't let his kid wear a seatbelt, he's worst than just stoopid.

Right.  Which is why I want people to get vaccinated.

Me wearing a mask really doesn't help much - if at all.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on July 14, 2021, 09:02:16 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 14, 2021, 08:39:40 AM

Am I concerned about that hypothetical?  Sure.  That's why I want people to get vaccinated.  But as an asymptomatic vaccinated person, I would only carry a minute amount of the virus (at most).  Not enough to spread to others.



Right.  Which is why I want people to get vaccinated.

Me wearing a mask really doesn't help much - if at all.

Let's be honest, masks never really did.

Wasn't until vaccines that people were safe. Open with masks gave a false sense of security that allowed people to resume much of their lives, but coincided with the worst run of infections since this began.  Optics porn at best.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on July 14, 2021, 09:20:30 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on July 14, 2021, 09:02:16 AM

Let's be honest, masks never really did.

Wasn't until vaccines that people were safe. Open with masks gave a false sense of security that allowed people to resume much of their lives, but coincided with the worst run of infections since this began.  Optics porn at best.

Said no scientific study ever.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on July 14, 2021, 09:22:17 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on July 14, 2021, 09:02:16 AM

Let's be honest, masks never really did.

They certainly aren't the panacea that people make them out to be. I think as a minimum precaution it's fine, but making vaccinated people wear them again is silly.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on July 14, 2021, 09:25:03 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on July 14, 2021, 09:02:16 AM

Let's be honest, masks never really did.

Wasn't until vaccines that people were safe. Open with masks gave a false sense of security that allowed people to resume much of their lives, but coincided with the worst run of infections since this began.  Optics porn at best.

No, idiots that refused to wear masks coincided with the worst run of infections since this began.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on July 14, 2021, 09:50:53 AM

Could some of the spike be that people who had it before and refuse to be vaccinated are getting it again? We are getting beyond that 3-6 month immunity stage for people that had it?

Like others have said, I hope we can get to a point where there’s 0 deaths and we are beyond this. I can help by encouraging the unvaccinated to get vaccinated. I don’t know that there’s much else I can do to help those who refuse to be vaccinated.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 14, 2021, 09:51:11 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on July 14, 2021, 09:02:16 AM

Let's be honest, masks never really did.

Which is absolutely false.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 14, 2021, 09:55:26 AM

Quote from: cheebs09 on July 14, 2021, 09:50:53 AM

Like others have said, I hope we can get to a point where there’s 0 deaths and we are beyond this.

I don't know that this is a realistic goal.  In my opinion, having seasonal corona-virus outbreaks being equivalent to a flu outbreak seems more than reasonable with vaccination.  I think Singapore's change in strategy from containment to 'managing/living' with the virus is another recognition its going in this direction.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 14, 2021, 10:16:41 AM

Absolutely shocked how the focus and blame attributed to any rise in infections has shifted from the Republican president down to the Republican governors now.  No fault or blame being pointed towards Biden or the many states run by democrats who are seeing increased rates.

Saw an article yesterday stating it was only Iowa, Maine, and I believe South Dakota who are currently not seeing 10%+ increases in infection numbers. 

For all the garbage being thrown at Missouri right now they still only have 100 or so hospitalized Covid patients in the entire state the last time I checked.    Talking point in the media suggests it is because of the low vaccination rate in Missouri but when you compare their hospitalization rate to that of Vermont who has done a great job at getting folks vaccinated, it is essentially the same when you factor in population differences between the two states. 

Personally I fall in line with the scoopers who believe that because we now have wide open availability to several safe and effective vaccines it is up to individuals to either get it or not.  Consistent with how we view as a population the annual influenza vaccine.  If you’re high risk and foolish enough not to get it and you get a bad case of it, then that’s on you.   

I understand the concern about vaccine resistant variants and everything else but until that becomes a reality it’ll be nothing but shouting in the wind for folks that haven’t been vaccinated at this point.  We’re now at a place where the unvaccinated will either have to be forced (whole heartedly disagree with that approach) to get the vaccine or unfortunately they will need some sort of personal negative experience with the virus to convince them to get it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 14, 2021, 10:18:07 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 14, 2021, 10:16:41 AM

Absolutely shocked how the focus and blame attributed to any rise in infections has shifted from the Republican president down to the Republican governors now.  No fault or blame being pointed towards Biden or the many states run by democrats who are seeing increased rates.

Which party is more anti-vax?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 14, 2021, 10:19:15 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 14, 2021, 08:17:16 AM

I care very much what happens to them.  Unlike you, I don't want them to get sick and die for the sake of scoring political points.  But they control their ability to be healthy and to live.  It's not my fault that they don't take advantage of that.

It's similar to my feelings that my ability to buy Ho Hos should not be infringed because some people have an obesity problem.

I don’t want them to die either. But if they choose to do so, then I don’t care.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 14, 2021, 10:20:29 AM

Quote from: Jockey on July 14, 2021, 10:19:15 AM

I don’t want them to die either. But if they choose to do so, then I don’t care.

Well I do.  I just can't save people from themselves.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on July 14, 2021, 10:28:24 AM

My concern boils down to this.   I look at what is happening around the world due to the delta variant.    I look at how it is projecting in the under-vaccinated areas of the USA.    Vaccines aren't forever.    Eventually, the vaccinated are going to need boosters.   Eventually, because of a failure to sufficiently control the virus, there is going to be a breakthrough variant that renders the existing vaccines ineffective.   
    Yes, square one.     Well, maybe not quite square one as big Pharma will use knowledge gleaned going forward.   

Don't throw away your masks yet.     

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 14, 2021, 10:43:07 AM

Quote from: tower912 on July 14, 2021, 10:28:24 AM

My concern boils down to this.   I look at what is happening around the world due to the delta variant.    I look at how it is projecting in the under-vaccinated areas of the USA.    Vaccines aren't forever.    Eventually, the vaccinated are going to need boosters.   Eventually, because of a failure to sufficiently control the virus, there is going to be a breakthrough variant that renders the existing vaccines ineffective.   
    Yes, square one.     Well, maybe not quite square one as big Pharma will use knowledge gleaned going forward.   

Don't throw away your masks yet.   

The question you brought up is whether or not masks are a major contributor to lower virus spread for the vaccinated.  Thus far the research doesn’t support that it is needed. 

Vaccinations have limits, but so far we have learned they do show benefits even when they are less effective on a new variant.  So not necessarily square one.  Plus we have a safe and approved delivery method that can be modified from variants.  So again not square one. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on July 14, 2021, 10:47:13 AM

Quote from: tower912 on July 14, 2021, 10:28:24 AM

My concern boils down to this.   I look at what is happening around the world due to the delta variant.    I look at how it is projecting in the under-vaccinated areas of the USA.    Vaccines aren't forever.    Eventually, the vaccinated are going to need boosters.   Eventually, because of a failure to sufficiently control the virus, there is going to be a breakthrough variant that renders the existing vaccines ineffective.   
    Yes, square one.     Well, maybe not quite square one as big Pharma will use knowledge gleaned going forward.   

Don't throw away your masks yet.   

Is the risk of a variant being resistant to the vaccine that much higher than a new virus popping up like this one did last year?

Maybe I’m being too nonchalant about the risk of a vaccine resistant variant, but this idea that we need to brace ourselves for the next wave seems to be against the science. Granted, that’s just my knowledge based on a few articles.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 14, 2021, 10:51:52 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 14, 2021, 10:18:07 AM

Which party is more anti-vax?

Both parties have a small % of anti-vax.  From what I’ve read a small majority align with the right but the delta between anti-vax right and anti-vax left isn’t that large.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 14, 2021, 11:01:33 AM

Quote from: tower912 on July 14, 2021, 10:28:24 AM

My concern boils down to this.   I look at what is happening around the world due to the delta variant.    I look at how it is projecting in the under-vaccinated areas of the USA.    Vaccines aren't forever.    Eventually, the vaccinated are going to need boosters.   Eventually, because of a failure to sufficiently control the virus, there is going to be a breakthrough variant that renders the existing vaccines ineffective.   
    Yes, square one.     Well, maybe not quite square one as big Pharma will use knowledge gleaned going forward.   

Don't throw away your masks yet.   

You assert the bolded like it is a known fact.  It really isn't.  And furthermore, that very well could be what the boosters are for - a la the flu.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 14, 2021, 11:03:21 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 14, 2021, 10:51:52 AM

Both parties have a small % of anti-vax.  From what I’ve read a small majority align with the right but the delta between anti-vax right and anti-vax left isn’t that large.

Nope.  From June.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2021/06/11/here-are-the-biggest-groups-that-are-still-refusing-the-covid-19-vaccine-poll-finds/?sh=6a90aee342cc

"Nearly half of unvaccinated respondents were Republicans (49% versus 29% Democrats), as opposed to 31% of vaccinated respondents who identified as Republicans and 59% Democrats."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 14, 2021, 11:22:10 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 14, 2021, 11:03:21 AM

Nope.  From June.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2021/06/11/here-are-the-biggest-groups-that-are-still-refusing-the-covid-19-vaccine-poll-finds/?sh=6a90aee342cc

"Nearly half of unvaccinated respondents were Republicans (49% versus 29% Democrats), as opposed to 31% of vaccinated respondents who identified as Republicans and 59% Democrats."

Sure 20% difference between the two parties in this one poll.  I can try and find the polls I found that showed it wasn’t as large, closer to 10-15% difference between the two.

And unvaccinated (which is what this poll asked) doesn’t mean 100% anti-vax obviously.  My social circles are primarily right of center friends/family and while the vast majority have been vaccinated there are a handful who view themselves as low risk for natural infection and plan to get vaccinated at some point but just aren’t in a rush to do it.  Some site waiting for full FDA approval, others before they take their first vacation requiring a flight, etc. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 14, 2021, 11:25:51 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 14, 2021, 10:51:52 AM

Both parties have a small % of anti-vax.  From what I’ve read a small majority align with the right but the delta between anti-vax right and anti-vax left isn’t that large.

False.

I mean, the governor of Florida -- the leader in the T-PAC straw poll for the 2024 GOP presidential nomination (other than T) -- won't let the cruise industry insist that passengers on their floating petri dishes be vaccinated. The guy in Texas is lording over similar rules. Attendees at T-PAC cheered enthusiastically at references to being unvaccinated. Statistically, counties that voted for T in 2020 are waaaaaaay behind in vaccination rates. Name a Democratic governor who has forbidden businesses from enforcing their own rules regarding vaccines.

These are just facts.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 14, 2021, 11:30:37 AM

From Washington Post columnist Dana Milbank:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/07/13/republicans-are-dismantling-right-vote-theyve-enshrined-right-infect/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F3425068%2F60ef08539d2fda945a03a70d%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F15%2F70%2F60ef08539d2fda945a03a70d

In the United States in the year 2021, you, as an American citizen, do not necessarily have the right to vote.

You do not necessarily have the right to teach or to learn about matters of race, gender or anything else state lawmakers consider “divisive concepts.”

But you do have one absolute, sacrosanct, inviolate, God-given, self-evident and inalienable right: the right to refuse a coronavirus vaccine — and to infect as many people as you can.

With the blessing of the Roberts court, legislatures in Republican-run states are rushing to impose new voting restrictions, particularly on non-White voters. A tally by the Brennan Center finds that, as of June 21, 17 states had enacted 28 new laws restricting the ability to vote since the start of this year.

At the same time, 10 states have enacted, and 26 states are weighing, restrictions on classroom discussions of racism and sexism, according to an Education Week count. Ostensibly, these restrictions combat critical race theory, an academic notion turned into a boogeyman by Republican politicians and sympathetic groups.

But while curtailing freedoms for some, red states are simultaneously extending civil rights to a previously unprotected class: the anti-vaxxers. A count by the Husch Blackwell law firm lists at least 17 Republican-run states that have enacted laws or orders protecting the rights of those who refuse coronavirus vaccines, with more such laws in process.

AND ALSO THIS ...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/07/13/desantis-fauci-florida/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F3425071%2F60ef08539d2fda945a03a70d%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F40%2F70%2F60ef08539d2fda945a03a70d

“Don’t Fauci My Florida,” read drink koozies and T-shirts that Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis’s campaign team rolled out just as his state sees some of the highest coronavirus hospitalizations, new infections and deaths per capita in the country. ...

New coronavirus infection numbers plummeted in Florida after vaccinations became widely available, but they have ticked up in recent weeks. The state is reporting daily cases close to four times the national average — 26 new infections per 100,000 residents, the second-highest number in the country. The state’s latest covid-19 death rate is almost double the national figure, and it ranks fourth for current hospitalizations.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 14, 2021, 11:51:36 AM

Quote from: MU82 on July 14, 2021, 11:30:37 AM

From Washington Post columnist Dana Milbank:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/07/13/republicans-are-dismantling-right-vote-theyve-enshrined-right-infect/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F3425068%2F60ef08539d2fda945a03a70d%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F15%2F70%2F60ef08539d2fda945a03a70d

In the United States in the year 2021, you, as an American citizen, do not necessarily have the right to vote.

You do not necessarily have the right to teach or to learn about matters of race, gender or anything else state lawmakers consider “divisive concepts.”

But you do have one absolute, sacrosanct, inviolate, God-given, self-evident and inalienable right: the right to refuse a coronavirus vaccine — and to infect as many people as you can.

With the blessing of the Roberts court, legislatures in Republican-run states are rushing to impose new voting restrictions, particularly on non-White voters. A tally by the Brennan Center finds that, as of June 21, 17 states had enacted 28 new laws restricting the ability to vote since the start of this year.

At the same time, 10 states have enacted, and 26 states are weighing, restrictions on classroom discussions of racism and sexism, according to an Education Week count. Ostensibly, these restrictions combat critical race theory, an academic notion turned into a boogeyman by Republican politicians and sympathetic groups.

But while curtailing freedoms for some, red states are simultaneously extending civil rights to a previously unprotected class: the anti-vaxxers. A count by the Husch Blackwell law firm lists at least 17 Republican-run states that have enacted laws or orders protecting the rights of those who refuse coronavirus vaccines, with more such laws in process.

AND ALSO THIS ...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/07/13/desantis-fauci-florida/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F3425071%2F60ef08539d2fda945a03a70d%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F40%2F70%2F60ef08539d2fda945a03a70d

“Don’t Fauci My Florida,” read drink koozies and T-shirts that Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis’s campaign team rolled out just as his state sees some of the highest coronavirus hospitalizations, new infections and deaths per capita in the country. ...

New coronavirus infection numbers plummeted in Florida after vaccinations became widely available, but they have ticked up in recent weeks. The state is reporting daily cases close to four times the national average — 26 new infections per 100,000 residents, the second-highest number in the country. The state’s latest covid-19 death rate is almost double the national figure, and it ranks fourth for current hospitalizations.

Whoah, had a lot to get off your chess there MU82!!  Can I ask what the obsession with Florida is all about?  Is it because DeSantis is the 2024 front runner?

Just looked at the numbers again and Florida remains middle of the pack when it comes to cases per Capita (sandwiched between Delaware and Indiana).  When it comes to deaths per Capita they’re even more average/ignorable (sandwiched between Ohio and Kansas).  They haven’t been perfect nor terrible but the amount of time dedicated to ripping him is unmatched both on here and in the media.  Truthfully interested in understanding why so much attention towards him?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 14, 2021, 11:53:47 AM

See?  Willful ignorance

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 14, 2021, 12:00:16 PM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 14, 2021, 11:53:47 AM

See?  Willful ignorance

If that’s directed at me Rico, ignorance towards what? Critical race theory being taught in schools? (entirely irrelevant to what was being discussed but MU82 wanted to make sure we were aware for some reason)

DeSantis not allowing cruise ships to require proof of vaccination is not DeSantis saying don’t get vaccinated, in fact Florida has done an admirable job especially within their most susceptible populations with vaccination.  Not sure what you suggesting ignorance to?

https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/vaccine-tracker

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 14, 2021, 01:04:33 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 14, 2021, 11:01:33 AM

You assert the bolded like it is a known fact.  It really isn't.  And furthermore, that very well could be what the boosters are for - a la the flu.

Umm,….. what is the effectiveness of the flu vaccine? Not even close to 100%. Usually not even 75%.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 14, 2021, 01:07:13 PM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 14, 2021, 11:53:47 AM

See?  Willful ignorance

I usually agree with you, Rico, but that is not willful ignorance.

It is simply lying. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 14, 2021, 01:08:26 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 14, 2021, 11:51:36 AM

Whoah, had a lot to get off your chess there MU82!!  Can I ask what the obsession with Florida is all about?  Is it because DeSantis is the 2024 front runner?

Just looked at the numbers again and Florida remains middle of the pack when it comes to cases per Capita (sandwiched between Delaware and Indiana).  When it comes to deaths per Capita they’re even more average/ignorable (sandwiched between Ohio and Kansas).  They haven’t been perfect nor terrible but the amount of time dedicated to ripping him is unmatched both on here and in the media.  Truthfully interested in understanding why so much attention towards him?

DeSantis is at the forefront of preventing businesses from instituting COVID-19 rules that will help them keep their customers safe ... while also working to suppress the vote in future elections. So it's a perfect 1-2 punch for those with T Withdrawal.

Obsession ... that's funny coming from a guy who has been obsessed for more than a year with making sure everybody knows that T's only pandemic misstep was one of "messaging."

And speaking of messaging and obsessions ... "critical race theory."

I gotta hand it to y'all. Whether it's the "War on Xmas" or "shariah law" or "cancel culture" or "socialism!" or "antifa" or "pedophiles in pizza parlors" or "they're coming for your guns" or "killers in caravans" or whatever the pet culture war du jour is, Republicans are very good at making up boogeymen to gin up their base.

I don't think you're stupid, Pace, so I'm sure you're aware that critical race theory isn't actually being taught in our public schools. And you're also probably aware that if you asked 100,000 Republicans who have beyotched about critical race theory to define it, at least 99,998 wouldn't be able to. (Neither would most Dems or Independents.) 

But yeah, it's gonna be the ruination of American society ... just like "death panels" were gonna be. Remember that oldie but goodie?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 14, 2021, 01:15:30 PM

Quote from: Jockey on July 14, 2021, 01:07:13 PM

I usually agree with you, Rico, but that is not willful ignorance.

It is simply lying. Nothing more. Nothing less.

What is lying?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 14, 2021, 01:20:21 PM

Quote from: MU82 on July 14, 2021, 01:08:26 PM

DeSantis is at the forefront of preventing businesses from instituting COVID-19 rules that will help them keep their customers safe ... while also working to suppress the vote in future elections. So it's a perfect 1-2 punch for those with T Withdrawal.

Obsession ... that's funny coming from a guy who has been obsessed for more than a year with making sure everybody knows that T's only pandemic misstep was one of "messaging."

And speaking of messaging and obsessions ... "critical race theory."

I gotta hand it to y'all. Whether it's the "War on Xmas" or "shariah law" or "cancel culture" or "socialism!" or "antifa" or "pedophiles in pizza parlors" or "they're coming for your guns" or "killers in caravans" or whatever the pet culture war du jour is, Republicans are very good at making up boogeymen to gin up their base.

I don't think you're stupid, Pace, so I'm sure you're aware that critical race theory isn't actually being taught in our public schools. And you're also probably aware that if you asked 100,000 Republicans who have beyotched about critical race theory to define it, at least 99,998 wouldn't be able to. (Neither would most Dems or Independents.) 

But yeah, it's gonna be the ruination of American society ... just like "death panels" were gonna be. Remember that oldie but goodie?

In hopes of not getting this thread locked for off topic comments I won’t respond as it has little to nothing to do with Covid.

As some call me Chicos, I’m going to start calling you Olbermann.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 14, 2021, 01:22:00 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 14, 2021, 01:20:21 PM

In hopes of not getting this thread locked for off topic comments I won’t respond as it has little to nothing to do with Covid.

As some call me Chicos, I’m going to start calling you Olbermann.

He does need to branch out on his information.  The constant outrage reeks of MSNBC.

That or WaPo or NYT.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 14, 2021, 03:33:27 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 14, 2021, 01:20:21 PM

In hopes of not getting this thread locked for off topic comments I won’t respond as it has little to nothing to do with Covid.

As some call me Chicos, I’m going to start calling you Olbermann.

You're the one who brought up critical race theory, and you're the one who tried false equivalence. But sure, have a great day!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 14, 2021, 09:22:29 PM

Quote from: MU82 on July 14, 2021, 03:33:27 PM

You're the one who brought up critical race theory, and you're the one who tried false equivalence. But sure, have a great day!

Come on Olbermann, all you have to do is look at the post timeline above.

Also still waiting for Jockey to point out my lie!!  Nothing but 🦗

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 14, 2021, 11:01:03 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 14, 2021, 09:22:29 PM

Come on Olbermann

OK, Tucker. Give Q my regards!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 14, 2021, 11:19:39 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 14, 2021, 10:51:52 AM

Both parties have a small % of anti-vax.  From what I’ve read a small majority align with the right but the delta between anti-vax right and anti-vax left isn’t that large.

Which network is spouting anti VAX all the time? Same same same? Really.
DeathSantis is literally selling anti vax paraphernalia on his campaign web site.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 15, 2021, 12:06:10 AM

Quote from: MU82 on July 14, 2021, 11:01:03 PM

OK, Tucker. Give Q my regards!

Clever.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 15, 2021, 07:59:43 AM

"Almost 3,000 Floridians are being hospitalized each day, according to the New York Times, the highest number in the nation and the fourth-highest per capita. New cases increased by 429% over the past 14 days, a dramatic surge only superseded by that in Tennessee."

Winning! Just like Charlie Sheen winning.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jul/14/florida-ron-desantis-digs-fauci-merchandise-covid

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 15, 2021, 11:19:46 AM

Interesting survey in the efficacy of vaccines and first time I’ve seen something about long-covid potential with vaccine. 

https://twitter.com/virusesimmunity/status/1415091425298063368?s=21 (https://twitter.com/virusesimmunity/status/1415091425298063368?s=21)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on July 15, 2021, 12:49:41 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 15, 2021, 11:19:46 AM

Interesting survey in the efficacy of vaccines and first time I’ve seen something about long-covid potential with vaccine. 

https://twitter.com/virusesimmunity/status/1415091425298063368?s=21 (https://twitter.com/virusesimmunity/status/1415091425298063368?s=21)

Interesting data. Some of the comments/conclusions are poorly framed. Particularly the "interesting that JJ is best at preventing long covid". Not actually true in the data, only in how they analyzed it.

There were 13 symptomatic cases for JJ, all 13 were long COVID. There were just more total breakthrough cases with JJ, which is consistent with lower efficacy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 15, 2021, 02:46:28 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on July 14, 2021, 11:19:39 PM

Which network is spouting anti VAX all the time? Same same same? Really.
DeathSantis is literally selling anti vax paraphernalia on his campaign web site.

Yes, but watch it. If you point out the fact that DeSantis literally is making money through undermining vaccinations, Pace/Tucker will say you're "obsessed."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 15, 2021, 02:56:28 PM

Quote from: MU82 on July 15, 2021, 02:46:28 PM

Yes, but watch it. If you point out the fact that DeSantis literally is making money through undermining vaccinations, Pace/Tucker will say you're "obsessed."

If you looked into PBI’s allegations you’d realize he’s not exactly telling the truth..  Unless making money on things mocking Fauci and wearing masks are now considered undermining vaccinations. While both the slogans of  “Don’t Fauci florida” and “how can I drink my beer with a mask on” are incredibly lame/cheesy, I think it’s also quite the stretch to suggest that’s DeSantis downplaying vaccines.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on July 15, 2021, 04:55:47 PM

LA county back to a mask mandate, regardless of vaccination status.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on July 15, 2021, 05:20:17 PM

Quote from: MUfan12 on July 15, 2021, 04:55:47 PM

LA county back to a mask mandate, regardless of vaccination status.

I’m sure that will go over well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ChuckyChip on July 15, 2021, 05:37:57 PM

Yankees v. Red Sox game cancelled tonight due to positive tests on Yankees.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 15, 2021, 05:42:15 PM

Quote from: ChuckyChip on July 15, 2021, 05:37:57 PM

Yankees v. Red Sox game cancelled tonight due to positive tests on Yankees.

"Ah, you're unvaccinated and got Covid?  Guess you're paying everyone's salary tonight!"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 15, 2021, 06:41:54 PM

Quote from: MUfan12 on July 15, 2021, 04:55:47 PM

LA county back to a mask mandate, regardless of vaccination status.

So dumb.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on July 15, 2021, 07:02:15 PM

and, any "disinformation" about covid on social media gets flagged and no word on how many canes ya get or what public place these will be administered...stay tuned.  who's your dictator?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU11W on July 15, 2021, 07:07:47 PM

You guys are getting canes??  They didn’t give me one with my vaccine

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 15, 2021, 07:19:44 PM

Interesting dive into why Delta may be more contagious.

https://twitter.com/angie_rasmussen/status/1415672461111271424?s=21 (https://twitter.com/angie_rasmussen/status/1415672461111271424?s=21)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 15, 2021, 07:32:06 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on July 15, 2021, 07:02:15 PM

and, any "disinformation" about covid on social media gets flagged and no word on how many canes ya get or what public place these will be administered...stay tuned.  who's your dictator?

I thought you were for private enterprise?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on July 15, 2021, 07:43:24 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 15, 2021, 07:32:06 PM

I thought you were for private enterprise?

  i am...and...your point is...??

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 15, 2021, 07:47:55 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on July 15, 2021, 07:43:24 PM

  i am...and...your point is...??

My point is that social media companies can decide if they want to take down misinformation.

That isn’t being a dictator.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 15, 2021, 07:49:12 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on July 15, 2021, 07:43:24 PM

  i am...and...your point is...??

That you don’t understand free enterprise.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on July 15, 2021, 07:54:25 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 15, 2021, 07:47:55 PM

My point is that social media companies can decide if they want to take down misinformation.

That isn’t being a dictator.

  you know it's being filtered thru the white house, right?  that's not my kind of "free" enterprise.  i was trying to stay Apolitical and assuming you guys knew this.  better circle back and listen to the orange lady's presser

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 15, 2021, 07:57:49 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on July 15, 2021, 07:54:25 PM

  you know it's being filtered thru the white house, right?  that's not my kind of "free" enterprise.  i was trying to stay Apolitical and assuming you guys knew this.  better circle back and listen to the orange lady's presser

The tinfoil hat is wrapped a little tight.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 15, 2021, 08:03:03 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 15, 2021, 07:19:44 PM

Interesting dive into why Delta may be more contagious.

https://twitter.com/angie_rasmussen/status/1415672461111271424?s=21 (https://twitter.com/angie_rasmussen/status/1415672461111271424?s=21)

It’s incredibly frustrating at this point to read things like that and know how helpful vaccinations are.  It doesn’t eliminate the virus but it certainly mitigates it’s potentcy.  I’m reading Michael Lewis’ The Preminition and it’s absolutely maddening

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 15, 2021, 08:17:53 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on July 15, 2021, 07:54:25 PM

  you know it's being filtered thru the white house, right?  that's not my kind of "free" enterprise.  i was trying to stay Apolitical and assuming you guys knew this.  better circle back and listen to the orange lady's presser

Lol. You’re so hopeless.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on July 15, 2021, 08:48:04 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on July 15, 2021, 07:54:25 PM

  you know it's being filtered thru the white house, right?  that's not my kind of "free" enterprise.  i was trying to stay Apolitical and assuming you guys knew this.  better circle back and listen to the orange lady's presser

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/0b611febf569d1400a9e10a1b657e2b3/tenor.gif?itemid=16361481)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 15, 2021, 09:05:44 PM

Wow. This is some loony tune stuff.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on July 16, 2021, 05:30:27 AM

Qarlson level.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 16, 2021, 05:58:14 AM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on July 15, 2021, 07:54:25 PM

  you know it's being filtered thru the white house, right?  that's not my kind of "free" enterprise. i was trying to stay Apolitical and assuming you guys knew this.  better circle back and listen to the orange lady's presser

SINCE FLICKING WHEN, BRO?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 16, 2021, 06:39:53 AM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on July 15, 2021, 07:54:25 PM

  you know it's being filtered thru the white house, right?  that's not my kind of "free" enterprise.  i was trying to stay Apolitical and assuming you guys knew this.  better circle back and listen to the orange lady's presser

It's usually after something like this that the kids take away dad's keys and start looking for a nice living facility to put him in.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HutchwasClutch on July 16, 2021, 07:11:33 AM

All the usual uber liberal posters here who despise anyone not as liberal as them, attack the messenger and fail to comment whatsoever on the substance of his post. Biden’s WH actively working with Facebook in controlling the information that’s posted would make heavy handed world dictators proud and line up well with their philosophy about free speech.

But none of you can defend that, so get your clever attacks at Rocket in. And now aim for me.  Have at it.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 16, 2021, 07:22:16 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 15, 2021, 02:56:28 PM

If you looked into PBI’s allegations you’d realize he’s not exactly telling the truth..  Unless making money on things mocking Fauci and wearing masks are now considered undermining vaccinations. While both the slogans of  “Don’t Fauci florida” and “how can I drink my beer with a mask on” are incredibly lame/cheesy, I think it’s also quite the stretch to suggest that’s DeSantis downplaying vaccines.

Really? the guy who banned private companies from asking about vax status? The guy who refuses to disclose his vax status?
Explain exactly how mocking the guy who's main message is get vaccinated isn't undermining vaccinations.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HutchwasClutch on July 16, 2021, 07:25:36 AM

By the way, it’s not Rocket or my theory WH is actively working with FB, Psaki proudly confirmed it being true.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 16, 2021, 07:50:12 AM

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on July 16, 2021, 07:11:33 AM

All the usual uber liberal posters here who despise anyone not as liberal as them, attack the messenger and fail to comment whatsoever on the substance of his post. Biden’s WH actively working with Facebook in controlling the information that’s posted would make heavy handed world dictators proud and line up well with their philosophy about free speech.

But none of you can defend that, so get your clever attacks at Rocket in. And now aim for me.  Have at it.   

I will defend it.

Facebook can do what they want.  They aren't "controlled by the government."  They are a private entity that is using government experts to determine which information posted to their site is misinformation or not.  They are under no government sanction if they keep misinformation up.  It is an entirely voluntary arrangement.  One which I applaud because it could save thousands of lives and end this pandemic way longer than it otherwise would because people have decided its better to lie to the American public for the sake of clicks and ratings than tell the truth and keep people healthy.

I guess you are another conservative who claims to understand the Constitution...but apparently doesn't really understand the Constitution.  But it's simply easier to parrot laughable lines like "heavy handed world dictators" than actually have the intellectual rigor to understand Constitutional law.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 16, 2021, 07:56:31 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 16, 2021, 07:50:12 AM

I will defend it.

Facebook can do what they want.  They aren't "controlled by the government."  They are a private entity that is using government experts to determine which information posted to their site is misinformation or not.  They are under no government sanction if they keep misinformation up.  It is an entirely voluntary arrangement.  One which I applaud because it could save thousands of lives and end this pandemic way longer than it otherwise would because people have decided its better to lie to the American public for the sake of clicks and ratings than tell the truth and keep people healthy.

I guess you are another conservative who claims to understand the Constitution...but apparently doesn't really understand the Constitution.  But it's simply easier to parrot laughable lines like "heavy handed world dictators" than actually have the intellectual rigor to understand Constitutional law.

Facts don’t care about your feelings or something is a line I seem to recall

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 16, 2021, 07:59:12 AM

Shortages of meat or lumber or microchips or used cars or even workers ... those we can deal with.

But shortages on booze ... THAT'S A DAMN BRIDGE TOO FAR!!!!

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/whats-in-store/article252776348.html?

Charlotte area restaurants and bars are reporting outages of popular booze brands like Patron tequila, Ciroc, Ketel One and Tito’s vodkas, and Malibu rum amid a global liquor shortage leaving business owners scrambling to stock their shelves.

At Picasso’s Sports Cafe in University City, Don Julio and other tequilas, and Jameson Irish Whiskey and Crown Royal whisky are out of stock.

“Some have been impossible to get,” said manager Ken Morgan. He said it’s been hard to stock tequila for several months but it’s grown worse in the last month. Fortunately, Morgan said, other types of liquor are available.

During Wednesday’s regular meeting of the N.C. Alcoholic Beverage Control Commission, chairman Zander Guy Jr. started off by addressing the statewide liquor shortage.

“We all are experiencing the supply and demand shortage, and hopefully that will resolve itself in time,” he said.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on July 16, 2021, 08:19:22 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 16, 2021, 07:50:12 AM

I will defend it.

Facebook can do what they want.  They aren't "controlled by the government."  They are a private entity that is using government experts to determine which information posted to their site is misinformation or not.  They are under no government sanction if they keep misinformation up.  It is an entirely voluntary arrangement.  One which I applaud because it could save thousands of lives and end this pandemic way longer than it otherwise would because people have decided its better to lie to the American public for the sake of clicks and ratings than tell the truth and keep people healthy.

I guess you are another conservative who claims to understand the Constitution...but apparently doesn't really understand the Constitution.  But it's simply easier to parrot laughable lines like "heavy handed world dictators" than actually have the intellectual rigor to understand Constitutional law.

Flawless victory.gif

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HutchwasClutch on July 16, 2021, 08:19:30 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 16, 2021, 07:50:12 AM

I will defend it.

Facebook can do what they want.  They aren't "controlled by the government."  They are a private entity that is using government experts to determine which information posted to their site is misinformation or not.  They are under no government sanction if they keep misinformation up.  It is an entirely voluntary arrangement.  One which I applaud because it could save thousands of lives and end this pandemic way longer than it otherwise would because people have decided its better to lie to the American public for the sake of clicks and ratings than tell the truth and keep people healthy.

I guess you are another conservative who claims to understand the Constitution...but apparently doesn't really understand the Constitution.  But it's simply easier to parrot laughable lines like "heavy handed world dictators" than actually have the intellectual rigor to understand Constitutional law.

Of course “government experts” whoever that may be from Biden’s WH, which you or no one else has any clue who those “experts” may be, have a monopoly on truth and science, right?  They are not to be questioned, right comrade?

How about the free exchange ideas?  You know, people who disagree freely have a back and forth. People can post “misinformation”, and those not in agreement, knock it down. That’s the essence of free speech. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on July 16, 2021, 08:24:20 AM

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on July 16, 2021, 08:19:30 AM

Of course “government experts” whoever that may be from Biden’s WH, which you or no one else has any clue who those “experts” may be, have a monopoly on truth and science, right?  They are not to be questioned, right comrade?

How about the free exchange ideas?  You know, people who disagree freely have a back and forth. People can post “misinformation”, and those not in agreement, knock it down. That’s the essence of free speech.

If you want constitutional free speech on social media, you should be contacting your reps to reclassify social media as public utilities.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on July 16, 2021, 08:42:09 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 16, 2021, 07:50:12 AM

I will defend it.

Facebook can do what they want.  They aren't "controlled by the government."  They are a private entity that is using government experts to determine which information posted to their site is misinformation or not.  They are under no government sanction if they keep misinformation up.  It is an entirely voluntary arrangement.  One which I applaud because it could save thousands of lives and end this pandemic way longer than it otherwise would because people have decided its better to lie to the American public for the sake of clicks and ratings than tell the truth and keep people healthy.

I guess you are another conservative who claims to understand the Constitution...but apparently doesn't really understand the Constitution.  But it's simply easier to parrot laughable lines like "heavy handed world dictators" than actually have the intellectual rigor to understand Constitutional law.

  how honorable of you fluff, but this is either incredibly and purposely naive or you are next in line for an orange wig and spot at the potus podium.  the question is, can you do it with a straight face...come on man!  you're a lying dog faced pony soldier and if you can't decide which experts to cite, then you ain't..."-----"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 16, 2021, 08:50:13 AM

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on July 16, 2021, 08:19:30 AM

Of course “government experts” whoever that may be from Biden’s WH, which you or no one else has any clue who those “experts” may be, have a monopoly on truth and science, right?  They are not to be questioned, right comrade?

Of course they can be questioned.  Of course they can be wrong.  But Facebook has determined that they are the experts that they are using.  That is their choice as a private entity.

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on July 16, 2021, 08:19:30 AM

How about the free exchange ideas?  You know, people who disagree freely have a back and forth. People can post “misinformation”, and those not in agreement, knock it down. That’s the essence of free speech. 

Free speech as a Constitutional concept is one that "Congress shall make no law....abridging the freedom of."  Media companies, social media companies, etc. are not required to provide a "free exchange of ideas." 

And one could argue that a "free exchange of ideas" isn't what's going on anyway.  Spreading misinformation about a vaccine isn't "an idea."  It's a lie.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 16, 2021, 08:52:13 AM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on July 16, 2021, 08:42:09 AM

  how honorable of you fluff, but this is either incredibly and purposely naive or you are next in line for an orange wig and spot at the potus podium.  the question is, can you do it with a straight face...come on man!  you're a lying dog faced pony soldier and if you can't decide which experts to cite, then you ain't..."-----"

How am I "naive" rocket? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 16, 2021, 09:01:15 AM

Quote from: MU82 on July 16, 2021, 07:59:12 AM

Shortages of meat or lumber or microchips or used cars or even workers ... those we can deal with.

But shortages on booze ... THAT'S A DAMN BRIDGE TOO FAR!!!!

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/whats-in-store/article252776348.html?

Charlotte area restaurants and bars are reporting outages of popular booze brands like Patron tequila, Ciroc, Ketel One and Tito’s vodkas, and Malibu rum amid a global liquor shortage leaving business owners scrambling to stock their shelves.

At Picasso’s Sports Cafe in University City, Don Julio and other tequilas, and Jameson Irish Whiskey and Crown Royal whisky are out of stock.

“Some have been impossible to get,” said manager Ken Morgan. He said it’s been hard to stock tequila for several months but it’s grown worse in the last month. Fortunately, Morgan said, other types of liquor are available.

During Wednesday’s regular meeting of the N.C. Alcoholic Beverage Control Commission, chairman Zander Guy Jr. started off by addressing the statewide liquor shortage.

“We all are experiencing the supply and demand shortage, and hopefully that will resolve itself in time,” he said.

There is a local bar here, made famous by the 5 o'clock somewhere video. Took a friend there. Went to get a Bahamian beer for him, as he had never had it (Kalik Gold, tasty, high alcohol content). Bartender said that they haven't been able to get it for months.  >:( :o
This has got to stop!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 16, 2021, 09:06:01 AM

Serious question.

Who is crazier? Rocket or the people who try to have a rational discussion with him?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 16, 2021, 09:57:22 AM

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on July 16, 2021, 07:11:33 AM

All the usual uber liberal posters here who despise anyone not as liberal as them, attack the messenger and fail to comment whatsoever on the substance of his post. Biden’s WH actively working with Facebook in controlling the information that’s posted would make heavy handed world dictators proud and line up well with their philosophy about free speech.

But none of you can defend that, so get your clever attacks at Rocket in. And now aim for me.  Have at it.

Facebook will work with whoever is in the WH.  It's called pragmatism.  Don't be such a damn fool.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on July 16, 2021, 10:04:49 AM

Quote from: MU82 on July 16, 2021, 07:59:12 AM

Shortages of meat or lumber or microchips or used cars or even workers ... those we can deal with.

But shortages on booze ... THAT'S A DAMN BRIDGE TOO FAR!!!!

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/whats-in-store/article252776348.html?

Charlotte area restaurants and bars are reporting outages of popular booze brands like Patron tequila, Ciroc, Ketel One and Tito’s vodkas, and Malibu rum amid a global liquor shortage leaving business owners scrambling to stock their shelves.

At Picasso’s Sports Cafe in University City, Don Julio and other tequilas, and Jameson Irish Whiskey and Crown Royal whisky are out of stock.

“Some have been impossible to get,” said manager Ken Morgan. He said it’s been hard to stock tequila for several months but it’s grown worse in the last month. Fortunately, Morgan said, other types of liquor are available.

During Wednesday’s regular meeting of the N.C. Alcoholic Beverage Control Commission, chairman Zander Guy Jr. started off by addressing the statewide liquor shortage.

“We all are experiencing the supply and demand shortage, and hopefully that will resolve itself in time,” he said.

Of course, this is the end result of continuing to pay folks to not work. Get ready to open your wallets and pay thru the ass because the result is massive inflation and strapping the youth with immeasurable debt, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 16, 2021, 10:09:16 AM

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on July 16, 2021, 08:19:30 AM

Of course “government experts” whoever that may be from Biden’s WH, which you or no one else has any clue who those “experts” may be, have a monopoly on truth and science, right?  They are not to be questioned, right comrade?

How about the free exchange ideas?  You know, people who disagree freely have a back and forth. People can post “misinformation”, and those not in agreement, knock it down. That’s the essence of free speech.

Science isn't dictated by politicians, it's dictated by the scientific method.  Science used to just be science until the right decided to make it part of their culture war, because it's conclusions ran contradictory to their messaging.  And if there is one thing I know about conservatives.  They have a distinct inability to admit that they don't know or understand something.  Additionally, every single one I know never admits to mistakes or apologizes for their errors.  There is always a new outrage of the day to move onto and an excuse for everything.  True red white and blue American values.  I don't see how some of you can watch these obese, flag wearing, racists and think to yourselves, "You know what, I'm with those guys!".  I'd be too embarrassed to leave my house or even tell anyone my political views if that were my thought process.  Just look at the objective losers that routinely show up to Trump rallies.  Would you stand next to them?  Have meaningful discussion about US policy?  I MEAN COME ON.

Turn off the cable news or be treated like the freaks you are.

Oh, also... Covid is bad.  To satisfy the original point of this thread.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 16, 2021, 10:18:43 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on July 16, 2021, 10:09:16 AM

Science isn't dictated by politicians, it's dictated by the scientific method.  Science used to just be science until the right decided to make it part of their culture war, because it's conclusions ran contradictory to their messaging.  And if there is one thing I know about conservatives.  They have a distinct inability to admit that they don't know or understand something.  Additionally, every single one I know never admits to mistakes or apologizes for their errors.  There is always a new outrage of the day to move onto and an excuse for everything.  True red white and blue American values.  I don't see how some of you can watch these obese, flag wearing, racists and think to yourselves, "You know what, I'm with those guys!".  I'd be too embarrassed to leave my house or even tell anyone my political views if that were my thought process.  Just look at the objective losers that routinely show up to Trump rallies.  Would you stand next to them?  Have meaningful discussion about US policy?  I MEAN COME ON.

Turn off the cable news or be treated like the freaks you are.

Oh, also... Covid is bad.  To satisfy the original point of this thread.

Come on Hards - you’re stealing my rants.  ;D

My supply isn’t endless, you know, so slow down.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 16, 2021, 11:01:38 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on July 16, 2021, 10:04:49 AM

Of course, this is the end result of continuing to pay folks to not work. Get ready to open your wallets and pay thru the ass because the result is massive inflation and strapping the youth with immeasurable debt, hey?

Or not.

Cutting off unemployment benefits early is not pushing people to find work, data suggests
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/23/ending-unemployment-benefits-early-may-not-be-having-desired-effect.html

Job hunting has been muted in 12 states that opted out of federal unemployment programs in recent weeks, suggesting the policy may not be working as planned, according to a new analysis by job site Indeed.

The states ended the pandemic-era benefits — including an extra $300 a week — about three months ahead of their Sept. 6 expiration.

Job searches are about 4% below the national average in Alaska, Iowa, Mississippi and Missouri, which stopped paying the federal benefits as of June 12, according to the analysis published Tuesday.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 16, 2021, 11:14:00 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on July 16, 2021, 11:01:38 AM

Or not.

Cutting off unemployment benefits early is not pushing people to find work, data suggests
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/23/ending-unemployment-benefits-early-may-not-be-having-desired-effect.html

Job hunting has been muted in 12 states that opted out of federal unemployment programs in recent weeks, suggesting the policy may not be working as planned, according to a new analysis by job site Indeed.

The states ended the pandemic-era benefits — including an extra $300 a week — about three months ahead of their Sept. 6 expiration.

Job searches are about 4% below the national average in Alaska, Iowa, Mississippi and Missouri, which stopped paying the federal benefits as of June 12, according to the analysis published Tuesday.

Facts don’t care about your feelings, aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jsglow on July 16, 2021, 01:24:12 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on July 16, 2021, 09:01:15 AM

There is a local bar here, made famous by the 5 o'clock somewhere video. Took a friend there. Went to get a Bahamian beer for him, as he had never had it (Kalik Gold, tasty, high alcohol content). Bartender said that they haven't been able to get it for months.  >:( :o
This has got to stop!

The struggle is real PBI!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HutchwasClutch on July 16, 2021, 01:51:35 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 16, 2021, 08:50:13 AM

Of course they can be questioned.  Of course they can be wrong.  But Facebook has determined that they are the experts that they are using.  That is their choice as a private entity.


Free speech as a Constitutional concept is one that "Congress shall make no law....abridging the freedom of."  Media companies, social media companies, etc. are not required to provide a "free exchange of ideas." 

And one could argue that a "free exchange of ideas" isn't what's going on anyway.  Spreading misinformation about a vaccine isn't "an idea."  It's a lie.

This all happily ignores completely the Federal government at the executive level direct involvement to control the message on a private entity platform. The government, which of course can infringe on our free speech, and is doing just that by inserting itself directly and censoring what they don’t approve of. 

One can only imagine an R in the WH doing the same.  There wouldn’t be any lefty talking points and spin to try and make this seem acceptable. 

And of course, it’s only because the were “chosen” by FB. 🙄  What luck for the government they didn’t have to force their way in. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 16, 2021, 02:09:22 PM

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on July 16, 2021, 01:51:35 PM

This all happily ignores completely the Federal government at the executive level direct involvement to control the message on a private entity platform.

I haven't ignored anything.  I specifically said that the private entity is engaging in this by choice.

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on July 16, 2021, 01:51:35 PM

The government, which of course can infringe on our free speech, and is doing just that by inserting itself directly and censoring what they don’t approve of. 

False.  There are plenty of ways that people can spread misinformation if they want.  They just can't do it on Facebook.  (Which is awesome as a Facebook user by the way!)  If they want to use a government as a resource to identify misinformation, that is their perogative. 

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on July 16, 2021, 01:51:35 PM

One can only imagine an R in the WH doing the same.  There wouldn’t be any lefty talking points and spin to try and make this seem acceptable.

This isn't a bad point at all, but not really relevant.

Perhaps you should direct your outrage at people who are lying by the virus instead.  That would be more productive.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 16, 2021, 03:01:09 PM

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on July 16, 2021, 01:51:35 PM

This all happily ignores completely the Federal government at the executive level direct involvement to control the message on a private entity platform. The government, which of course can infringe on our free speech, and is doing just that by inserting itself directly and censoring what they don’t approve of. 

One can only imagine an R in the WH doing the same.  There wouldn’t be any lefty talking points and spin to try and make this seem acceptable. 

And of course, it’s only because the were “chosen” by FB. 🙄  What luck for the government they didn’t have to force their way in.

You’re simply repeating the Fox News lie.

Rocket is just a moron that we all laugh at. You’re better than that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 16, 2021, 03:27:57 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on July 16, 2021, 10:04:49 AM

Of course, this is the end result of continuing to pay folks to not work.

If only facts supported that, nu?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 16, 2021, 04:55:44 PM

Quote from: MU82 on July 16, 2021, 03:27:57 PM

If only facts supported that, nu?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.yahoo.com/amphtml/poll-1-8-million-americans-114414409.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on July 16, 2021, 10:08:53 PM

Quote from: MU82 on July 16, 2021, 07:59:12 AM

Shortages of meat or lumber or microchips or used cars or even workers ... those we can deal with.

But shortages on booze ... THAT'S A DAMN BRIDGE TOO FAR!!!!

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/whats-in-store/article252776348.html?

Charlotte area restaurants and bars are reporting outages of popular booze brands like Patron tequila, Ciroc, Ketel One and Tito’s vodkas, and Malibu rum amid a global liquor shortage leaving business owners scrambling to stock their shelves.

At Picasso’s Sports Cafe in University City, Don Julio and other tequilas, and Jameson Irish Whiskey and Crown Royal whisky are out of stock.

“Some have been impossible to get,” said manager Ken Morgan. He said it’s been hard to stock tequila for several months but it’s grown worse in the last month. Fortunately, Morgan said, other types of liquor are available.

During Wednesday’s regular meeting of the N.C. Alcoholic Beverage Control Commission, chairman Zander Guy Jr. started off by addressing the statewide liquor shortage.

“We all are experiencing the supply and demand shortage, and hopefully that will resolve itself in time,” he said.

Fans of bourbon call this Tuesday.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 17, 2021, 07:05:49 AM

The more I read about this White House and Facebook connection, the more I realize its a complete non-story.  The White House is asking Facebook to shut down sites that peddle in vaccine misinformation, 12 of whom were identified as spreading almost 2/3 of the information on the platform by a private entity.

But of course Fox portrayed at as something sinister, which got the lapdogs like rocket and Hutch all up in arms.  So sad.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on July 17, 2021, 04:55:40 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 17, 2021, 07:05:49 AM

The more I read about this White House and Facebook connection, the more I realize its a complete non-story.  The White House is asking Facebook to shut down sites that peddle in vaccine misinformation, 12 of whom were identified as spreading almost 2/3 of the information on the platform by a private entity.

But of course Fox portrayed at as something sinister, which got the lapdogs like rocket and Hutch all up in arms.  So sad.

  you watch fox??? the horror! 

  your penance should be 4 hail mary's, 4 our father's, 4 acts of contrition all stated publicly wearing bunny slippers and a banana hammock

  the fox news hang up here is weird.  anyone ever call those who imbibe in CNN/MSNBC/ABC/NBC/NY times/WaPo/al jazeera/NPR/buzzfeed/PBS/etc etc etc

nope

   the inaccuracies would be incalculable-really sad.  people's trust in the media is at an all time low.  fox makes up such a small amount of that.  do the math.  that's what's sad.  fox news NEWS is actually quite fair.  it's the pundits that i believe most are referring to and i can understand the animus of the different point of view

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 17, 2021, 05:06:37 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on July 17, 2021, 04:55:40 PM

  you watch fox??? the horror! 

  your penance should be 4 hail mary's, 4 our father's, 4 acts of contrition all stated publicly wearing bunny slippers and a banana hammock

  the fox news hang up here is weird.  anyone ever call those who imbibe in CNN/MSNBC/ABC/NBC/NY times/WaPo/al jazeera/NPR/buzzfeed/PBS/etc etc etc

nope

   the inaccuracies would be incalculable-really sad.  people's trust in the media is at an all time low.  fox makes up such a small amount of that.  do the math.  that's what's sad.  fox news NEWS is actually quite fair.  it's the pundits that i believe most are referring to and i can understand the animus of the different point of view

My trust in the media is at an all-time high.  My trust in people that can’t write sentences is at an all-time low. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on July 18, 2021, 11:49:16 AM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 17, 2021, 05:06:37 PM

My trust in the media is at an all-time high.  My trust in people that can’t write sentences is at an all-time low.

  i'd rather write sh!tty when it don't matter then get a hinder binder, pants'd and wet willy even while i'm looking

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 18, 2021, 11:53:09 AM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on July 18, 2021, 11:49:16 AM

  i'd rather write sh!tty when it don't matter then get a hinder binder, pants'd and wet willy even while i'm looking

huh?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 18, 2021, 11:58:49 PM

Quote from: MU82 on July 18, 2021, 11:53:09 AM

huh?

It's better to just ignore the inane things he says.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on July 19, 2021, 10:55:01 AM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 17, 2021, 05:06:37 PM

My trust in the media is at an all-time high.  My trust in people that can’t write sentences is at an all-time low.

I wouldn't go that far just to spite someone shouting at clouds.  The era of clickbait media is a disaster, COVID has highlighted that. Mind you, I'm not intermingling media and journalism.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 20, 2021, 07:27:47 AM

American Academy of Pediatrics recommends “universal masking” during the 2021-2022 school year

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/nation-world/national/article252877338.html?

Students over age 2 and staff should wear face masks regardless of coronavirus vaccination status as “a significant portion of the student population is not yet eligible for vaccines” and because many schools will not have systems in place to monitor the vaccination status of students and staff, the group said in its updated guidance for the upcoming school year.

Children ages 12 and older are eligible to get the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine. But that still leaves many school-aged children who cannot be vaccinated, the organization notes.

The organization also pointed to the “possibility of low vaccination uptake within the surrounding school community” and concerns about COVID-19 variants like delta that could spread more easily.

Face-mask use could also protect students and staff from other respiratory illnesses “that would take time away from school,” the organization said.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on July 20, 2021, 08:37:37 AM

Quote from: MU82 on July 20, 2021, 07:27:47 AM

American Academy of Pediatrics recommends “universal masking” during the 2021-2022 school year

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/nation-world/national/article252877338.html?

Students over age 2 and staff should wear face masks regardless of coronavirus vaccination status as “a significant portion of the student population is not yet eligible for vaccines” and because many schools will not have systems in place to monitor the vaccination status of students and staff, the group said in its updated guidance for the upcoming school year.

Children ages 12 and older are eligible to get the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine. But that still leaves many school-aged children who cannot be vaccinated, the organization notes.

The organization also pointed to the “possibility of low vaccination uptake within the surrounding school community” and concerns about COVID-19 variants like delta that could spread more easily.

Face-mask use could also protect students and staff from other respiratory illnesses “that would take time away from school,” the organization said.

FFS

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on July 20, 2021, 08:52:53 AM

I have two little ones, so I'm sensitive to the risk... but good Lord.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 20, 2021, 09:01:36 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on July 20, 2021, 08:37:37 AM

FFS

We need to change our whole mindset that it’s not just flu season anymore but flu/Covid season and each will bring with it 40-50,000 annual deaths for a combined 100K Americans senselessly losing their lives on avg every year which terrifies me to think about.

Also, it appears Covid doesn’t have a season like the flu primarily does but rather it is equally contagious any month of the year so by no means am I suggesting these measures be put in place permanently moving forward, that’d be crazy.

But if we can’t pressure our local leaders that for the 5-6 month period (Nov-March) where Covid and influenza are running rampant through our communities to put proven preventative measures into place to save 10s of thousands of lives every year then those future administrations and local leaders will have blood on their hands!!!!  Folks, we need to follow the science here and quit accepting all these preventable deaths as ok.

My thoughts for the above flu/Covid time period of nov-March to save as many lives as possible:
     1) no indoor social gatherings of 50+ people.  That should allow for sports to go on uninterrupted just with no fans.
     2) Pull kids from the classroom.  Instead of having summers off I suggest we flip the school calendar on its head with 3 months during winter off instead to isolate the kids at home to protect our elderly and high risk populations.
      3) Mandatory mask wearing whether inside or not.
      4) church services all online
      5) Bars must close and restaurants only doing take out.
      6) Airline capacity 30% to allow for better socially distant flights.
      7) Concerts, plays, symphony’s and other type of entertainment is either done socially distanced outdoors with masks or need to pause for those 5-6 months.
      8) Nursing homes completely locked down.
      9) No hospital visitors
     10) If you do go on a winter vacation down south, beaches need to be monitored very closely.  Of things get out of hand, shut them down.

I think these 10 simple, yet proven steps will save so so soooo many lives and can’t fathom any rational argument against these measures.
———————————————————————

Made the above sarcastic post almost exactly a year ago.  This mask policy recommendation (which Fauci described as thoughtful and supports it 🤦‍♂️) is another step closer to the above becoming a realty. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on July 20, 2021, 09:11:44 AM

There isn't the societal will to go back into lockdowns.   But there are going to be more breakthrough cases and I have little doubt that a recommendation to start wearing masks again is just a few weeks away.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on July 20, 2021, 09:13:42 AM

No wonder the Jonestown massacre happened. The ignorance of people who want to be led along like sheep, never ceases to amaze me.
Yes, there will be variants, like there is each year with different flu stains. That's what boosters will take care of. Get your vaccination and its over, except for those like Mike who insist on drinking the kool-aid until the very, very last dog is hung, aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on July 20, 2021, 09:20:03 AM

Doc, I completely agree with your Jonestown analogy.   We just disagree on who the death cult is.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on July 20, 2021, 09:28:23 AM

The best, most coordinated response America is capable of having to this is in the rearview mirror.  There will continue to be a half life on cooperation and getting everyone pointed in one direction.  At this point, the best I think we can hope for is >50% acceptance of boosters however often they're necessary, with >80% for seniors, nursing homes, etc (flu shot numbers/small drop from initial vaccination rate); a bit greater willingness and acceptance of staying home when we're sick; and a bit broader use of masks in public spaces during the winter months.  Anyone hoping for more than that at this point is shaking his fist at the sky.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 20, 2021, 09:41:13 AM

Quote from: MUBurrow on July 20, 2021, 09:28:23 AM

The best, most coordinated response America is capable of having to this is in the rearview mirror.  There will continue to be a half life on cooperation and getting everyone pointed in one direction.  At this point, the best I think we can hope for is >50% acceptance of boosters however often they're necessary, with >80% for seniors, nursing homes, etc (flu shot numbers/small drop from initial vaccination rate); a bit greater willingness and acceptance of staying home when we're sick; and a bit broader use of masks in public spaces during the winter months.  Anyone hoping for more than that at this point is shaking his fist at the sky.

Truly believe once FDA gives full authorization to existing vaccine and then to any boosters it will become damn near required to have the vaccine for most employment, air travel, etc.  The longer it’s available and as the safety profile gets better understood it will become just another widely accepted vaccine (more widely accepted at least).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on July 20, 2021, 09:56:15 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 20, 2021, 09:41:13 AM

Truly believe once FDA gives full authorization to existing vaccine and then to any boosters it will become damn near required to have the vaccine for most employment, air travel, etc.  The longer it’s available and as the safety profile gets better understood it will become just another widely accepted vaccine (more widely accepted at least).

+1. Once the EUA is dropped, there's no more excuses. Get vaccinated or get out of the way.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 20, 2021, 10:02:03 AM

Quote from: tower912 on July 20, 2021, 09:11:44 AM

There isn't the societal will to go back into lockdowns.   But there are going to be more breakthrough cases and I have little doubt that a recommendation to start wearing masks again is just a few weeks away.

A recommendation that most will ignore. Honesty I can’t imagine that we will be returning to masking or limited capacity.

The vast majority of people in hospitals are the unvaccinated. It’s on them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 20, 2021, 10:14:51 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1417498445657616387

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 20, 2021, 10:23:59 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1417505265671450624

Super spreaders!!!!!!!!!!!!   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 20, 2021, 10:38:05 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 20, 2021, 10:23:59 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1417505265671450624

Super spreaders!!!!!!!!!!!!   

Vaccinated people can test positive.  That doesn't mean they will get sick or spread. 

Again, vaccinated people should not be getting tested unless symptomatic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 20, 2021, 10:54:35 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 20, 2021, 10:38:05 AM

Vaccinated people can test positive.  That doesn't mean they will get sick or spread. 

Again, vaccinated people should not be getting tested unless symptomatic.

💯 just messing around….I do find it hilarious they thought they were on this heroic mission and have turned out to be nothing more then a nuisance/distraction

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on July 20, 2021, 11:18:57 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 20, 2021, 10:54:35 AM

💯 just messing around….I do find it hilarious they thought they were on this heroic mission and have turned out to be nothing more then a nuisance/distraction

You are the nuisance, and the only person I've heard talking about this distraction. Lay off of cable news and twitter, my dude, your life will get better I promise.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 20, 2021, 11:40:22 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on July 20, 2021, 09:13:42 AM

No wonder the Jonestown massacre happened. The ignorance of people who want to be led along like sheep, never ceases to amaze me.
Yes, there will be variants, like there is each year with different flu stains. That's what boosters will take care of. Get your vaccination and its over, except for those like Mike who insist on drinking the kool-aid until the very, very last dog is hung, aina?

This is gold, Jerry

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 20, 2021, 11:49:22 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on July 20, 2021, 09:13:42 AM

No wonder the Jonestown massacre happened. The ignorance of people who want to be led along like sheep, never ceases to amaze me.
Yes, there will be variants, like there is each year with different flu stains. That's what boosters will take care of. Get your vaccination and its over, except for those like Mike who insist on drinking the kool-aid until the very, very last dog is hung, aina?

This is spectacular, coming from a member of the cult himself!

Y'all have absolutely no idea how I'm dealing with the pandemic; I'm guessing it's the exact same as you or close to it. But keep making stuff up -- when you take a break from bending the knee to your cult leader, that is.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on July 20, 2021, 11:50:53 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on July 20, 2021, 09:13:42 AM

No wonder the Jonestown massacre happened. The ignorance of people who want to be led along like sheep, never ceases to amaze me.
Yes, there will be variants, like there is each year with different flu stains. That's what boosters will take care of. Get your vaccination and its over, except for those like Mike who insist on drinking the kool-aid until the very, very last dog is hung, aina?

(https://static.timesofisrael.com/www/uploads/2021/01/pjimage-1.jpg)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on July 20, 2021, 12:25:26 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 20, 2021, 10:23:59 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1417505265671450624

Super spreaders!!!!!!!!!!!!   

Only Dems can take a case of Miller Lite and turn it into multiple cases of Corona.  Hey-o.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on July 20, 2021, 01:20:14 PM

There will be 65,000 rockin' with their junk out tonight in the Deer District. Is that a super spreader event, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on July 20, 2021, 01:22:43 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on July 20, 2021, 01:20:14 PM

There will be 65,000 rockin' with their junk out tonight in the Deer District. Is that a super spreader event, hey?

Not if the right people approve, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 20, 2021, 01:27:35 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on July 20, 2021, 01:20:14 PM

There will be 65,000 rockin' with their junk out tonight in the Deer District. Is that a super spreader event, hey?

Trump’s rallies had like 760,000 people at them and they worked out fine.  And that doesn’t count the 3-400,000 who had to be turned away

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 20, 2021, 02:03:27 PM

Quote from: Skatastrophy on July 20, 2021, 11:18:57 AM

You are the nuisance, and the only person I've heard talking about this distraction. Lay off of cable news and twitter, my dude, your life will get better I promise.

Which is also kind of my point.  If this was a group of republicans that did this it’s be the lead story on every evening news channel in America.  Can’t remember the last time I watched cable news though, life is good my dude!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: naginiF on July 20, 2021, 02:31:44 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 20, 2021, 02:03:27 PM

Which is also kind of my point.  If this was a group of republicans that did this it’s be the lead story on every evening news channel in America.  Can’t remember the last time I watched cable news though, life is good my dude!!

Spot on! If a group of republicans jointly took a public stand to secure voting rights for the people they represent it would be the lead story on every evening news channel.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 20, 2021, 03:21:12 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 20, 2021, 02:03:27 PM

Which is also kind of my point.  If this was a group of republicans that did this it’s be the lead story on every evening news channel in America.  Can’t remember the last time I watched cable news though, life is good my dude!!

"I am making a statement about something I don't experience and know nothing about."

Kinda par for the course for you in this topic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 20, 2021, 03:42:27 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on July 20, 2021, 01:20:14 PM

There will be 65,000 rockin' with their junk out tonight in the Deer District. Is that a super spreader event, hey?

Not if they are vaccinated.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on July 20, 2021, 05:20:20 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 20, 2021, 03:42:27 PM

Not if they are vaccinated.

Roughly 50% of WI is vaccinated.   You make the call.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 20, 2021, 06:15:04 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on July 20, 2021, 05:20:20 PM

Roughly 50% of WI is vaccinated.   You make the call.

That includes children under 12 who don't get the vaccine yet. Well over 60% for adults.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on July 20, 2021, 09:31:56 PM

Quote from: Jockey on July 20, 2021, 06:15:04 PM

That includes children under 12 who don't get the vaccine yet. Well over 60% for adults.

I'm just repeating what DHS reports, kin.

And there will be under 12s down there, so can't factor them out, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on July 21, 2021, 12:07:57 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on July 20, 2021, 09:31:56 PM

I'm just repeating what DHS reports, kin.

Interesting, CDC has higher numbers for WI. 
3,188,430, or 54.8% of total
3,187,979 or 63.8% of 12+
3,027,151 or 66.4% of 18+
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 21, 2021, 09:20:53 AM

US life expectancy in 2020 saw biggest drop since WWII

https://apnews.com/article/science-health-coronavirus-pandemic-fac0863b8c252d21d6f6a22a2e3eab86?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=MorningWire_July21&utm_term=Morning%20Wire%20Subscribers

NEW YORK (AP) — U.S. life expectancy fell by a year and a half in 2020, the largest one-year decline since World War II, public health officials said Wednesday. The decrease for both Black Americans and Hispanic Americans was even worse: three years.

The drop spelled out by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is due mainly to the COVID-19 pandemic, which health officials said is responsible for close to 74% of the overall life expectancy decline. More than 3.3 million Americans died last year, far more than any other year in U.S. history, with COVID-19 accounting for about 11% of those deaths.

Black life expectancy has not fallen so much in one year since the mid-1930s, during the Great Depression. Health officials have not tracked Hispanic life expectancy for nearly as long, but the 2020 decline was the largest recorded one-year drop.

The abrupt fall is “basically catastrophic,” said Mark Hayward, a University of Texas sociology professor who studies changes in U.S. mortality.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 21, 2021, 12:28:00 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on July 20, 2021, 02:03:27 PM

Which is also kind of my point.  If this was a group of republicans that did this it’s be the lead story on every evening news channel in America.  Can’t remember the last time I watched cable news though, life is good my dude!!

Quote from: 4everwarriors on July 20, 2021, 01:20:14 PM

There will be 65,000 rockin' with their junk out tonight in the Deer District. Is that a super spreader event, hey?

These are stupid takes.  There are filled baseball stadiums every week and no one bats an eye.  There have been indoor basketball games for months with full stands.

"Super spreader events" are no longer a thing if you're vaccinated.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 21, 2021, 12:28:48 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on July 20, 2021, 05:20:20 PM

Roughly 50% of WI is vaccinated.   You make the call.

People who play in the road are eventually going to get hit by cars.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on July 21, 2021, 07:53:49 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on July 21, 2021, 12:28:00 PM

These are stupid takes.  There are filled baseball stadiums every week and no one bats an eye.  There have been indoor basketball games for months with full stands.

"Super spreader events" are no longer a thing if you're vaccinated.

and don't forget the hundreds of thousands of illegals crossing our border from the south...don't think they were given the vaccine before getting into that jam packed semi truck.  you'd think the $5-10k they paid would've included at least one jab in the arm, eyn'a?  looks like an impeachable event anywhoooo

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on July 21, 2021, 08:09:34 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on July 21, 2021, 07:53:49 PM

and don't forget the hundreds of thousands of illegals crossing our border from the south...don't think they were given the vaccine before getting into that jam packed semi truck.  you'd think the $5-10k they paid would've included at least one jab in the arm, eyn'a?  looks like an impeachable event anywhoooo

Your ability to continually expand the dimensions of your stupidity is quite impressive.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on July 21, 2021, 10:53:18 PM

Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on July 21, 2021, 08:09:34 PM

Your ability to continually expand the dimensions of your stupidity is quite impressive.

  seriously "warrior" but "expand the dimensions..." ??  come on man!  you're killin me with the lingo dude.  still tryin to wear your polo's with the collar up, eyn'a?  go ride the bus man

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 22, 2021, 06:31:19 AM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on July 21, 2021, 10:53:18 PM

  seriously "warrior" but "expand the dimensions..." ??  come on man!  you're killin me with the lingo dude.  still tryin to wear your polo's with the collar up, eyn'a?  go ride the bus man

(https://media.giphy.com/media/VKtsOAHDx1Luo/giphy.gif)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 22, 2021, 06:53:18 AM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on July 21, 2021, 07:53:49 PM

and don't forget the hundreds of thousands of illegals crossing our border from the south...don't think they were given the vaccine before getting into that jam packed semi truck.  you'd think the $5-10k they paid would've included at least one jab in the arm, eyn'a?  looks like an impeachable event anywhoooo

I welcome all of them into our country with open arms.  Just the way your family was.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on July 22, 2021, 07:09:27 AM

Yep.  I keep reading about unfilled jobs.   Immigrants looking for a better life will always follow those opportunities.
I have an "Irish need not apply" sign in my basement to remind me how things haven't changed, just the ethnic group being hated.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 22, 2021, 07:56:44 AM

Quote from: tower912 on July 22, 2021, 07:09:27 AM

Yep.  I keep reading about unfilled jobs.   Immigrants looking for a better life will always follow those opportunities.
I have an "Irish need not apply" sign in my basement to remind me how things haven't changed, just the ethnic group being hated.

The more things change, the more they stay the same

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 22, 2021, 08:07:41 AM

Quote from: tower912 on July 22, 2021, 07:09:27 AM

Yep.  I keep reading about unfilled jobs.   Immigrants looking for a better life will always follow those opportunities.
I have an "Irish need not apply" sign in my basement to remind me how things haven't changed, just the ethnic group being hated.

Yep yep.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on July 22, 2021, 09:02:53 PM

Quote from: tower912 on July 22, 2021, 07:09:27 AM

Yep.  I keep reading about unfilled jobs.   Immigrants looking for a better life will always follow those opportunities.
I have an "Irish need not apply" sign in my basement to remind me how things haven't changed, just the ethnic group being hated.

never said anything about hate tower.  i worry about the health, well being and safety of our country first.  once again, i'm about character first, not color, ethnicity, gender, etc.  good people(all lives) is all that matters...carry on

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on July 22, 2021, 09:16:08 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on July 22, 2021, 09:02:53 PM

never said anything about hate tower.  i worry about the health, well being and safety of our country first.  once again, i'm about character first, not color, ethnicity, gender, etc.  good people(all lives) is all that matters...carry on

Unless that character wants to shave its head

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on July 22, 2021, 09:20:11 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on July 22, 2021, 09:02:53 PM

never said anything about hate tower.  i worry about the health, well being and safety of our country first.  once again, i'm about character first, not color, ethnicity, gender, etc.  good people(all lives) is all that matters...carry on

Yep. That’s why you castigate the “hundreds of thousands of illegals”…because you’re about character.  Good one.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 22, 2021, 10:57:44 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on July 22, 2021, 09:02:53 PM

never said anything about hate tower.  i worry about the health, well being and safety of our country first.  once again, i'm about character first, not color, ethnicity, gender, etc.  good people(all lives) is all that matters...carry on

what do you know about the "character" of the people on the border? do you know that they aren't "good people"?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 23, 2021, 12:49:47 AM

Quote from: MU82 on July 22, 2021, 10:57:44 PM

what do you know about the "character" of the people on the border? do you know that they aren't "good people"?

He knows they aren’t white. What else is there.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on July 23, 2021, 06:50:30 AM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on July 22, 2021, 09:02:53 PM

never said anything about hate tower.  i worry about the health, well being and safety of our country first.  once again, i'm about character first, not color, ethnicity, gender, etc.  good people(all lives) is all that matters...carry on

ubu, rocket

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 23, 2021, 05:21:30 PM

Rep. Madison Cawthorn, a North Carolina Republican, wants to "prosecute" Dr. Anthony Fauci if Republicans win back Congress in 2022, he said Wednesday.


C’mon, Mike, you’re supposed to handle these guys.  :)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on July 23, 2021, 06:46:36 PM

He also wants to prosecute Jill Biden for her unspecified ‘cruelty’ to her husband.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 23, 2021, 06:56:09 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on July 23, 2021, 06:46:36 PM

He also wants to prosecute Jill Biden for her unspecified ‘cruelty’ to her husband.

With all of the women who have accused him of sexual assault, it seems like he'd have something other that Fauci and Biden to worry about.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 23, 2021, 08:11:13 PM

Quote from: Jockey on July 23, 2021, 05:21:30 PM

Rep. Madison Cawthorn, a North Carolina Republican, wants to "prosecute" Dr. Anthony Fauci if Republicans win back Congress in 2022, he said Wednesday.


C’mon, Mike, you’re supposed to handle these guys.  :)

One of our many d-bag pols.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 24, 2021, 07:52:54 AM

Quote from: MU82 on July 23, 2021, 08:11:13 PM

One of our many d-bag pols.

They have discovered that being ignorant is no detriment; being loud and ignorant is, in fact, very rewarding financially.

Now that Fox has suddenly pivoted 180 on their vaccine information it will be interesting to see if people like Cawthorn and Greene go along or stick to their anti-vax disinformation. I'm guessing the latter.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 24, 2021, 10:06:24 AM

Fox backtracking.

Hannity Makes Vax Stance ‘Very Clear’: ‘I Never Told Anyone to Get a Vaccine!’
The Fox News star, apparently incensed over the plaudits he’d recently received from liberals over his seeming endorsement of vaccines, set the record straight on Thursday night.

https://apple.news/AYQ__nFGETimr_1ste527QA

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on July 24, 2021, 11:36:13 AM

Someone said 'class action lawsuit' in their ears

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 24, 2021, 02:09:02 PM

Convicted felon Mike Flynn gave Hannity and DeSantis shade for having the temerity to give some support to the notion of vaccinations.

https://www.newsweek.com/michael-flynn-criticizes-desantis-hannity-vaccine-push-they-know-that-they-have-influence-1612777

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on July 24, 2021, 05:45:09 PM

14,258 new cases in Florida today, the most one day increase since January.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 24, 2021, 08:17:18 PM

Quote from: shoothoops on July 24, 2021, 05:45:09 PM

14,258 new cases in Florida today, the most one day increase since January.

Winning!

Florida recorded more coronavirus cases this week than California, Texas, New York and Illinois combined, a Palm Beach Post analysis of state and federal data shows. The state logged 73,199 more infections in this week's state Department of Health report. That’s the biggest one-week surge since Jan. 27.

California, Texas, New York and Illinois altogether logged 73,116 new infections in the seven days leading up to Thursday, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 24, 2021, 08:27:08 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on July 24, 2021, 08:17:18 PM

Winning!

Florida recorded more coronavirus cases this week than California, Texas, New York and Illinois combined, a Palm Beach Post analysis of state and federal data shows. The state logged 73,199 more infections in this week's state Department of Health report. That’s the biggest one-week surge since Jan. 27.

California, Texas, New York and Illinois altogether logged 73,116 new infections in the seven days leading up to Thursday, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported.

All you can do is pray

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 24, 2021, 09:50:33 PM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 24, 2021, 08:27:08 PM

All you can do is pray

And thoughts. Don't forget the thoughts.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on July 25, 2021, 07:26:50 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on July 24, 2021, 08:17:18 PM

Winning!

Florida recorded more coronavirus cases this week than California, Texas, New York and Illinois combined, a Palm Beach Post analysis of state and federal data shows. The state logged 73,199 more infections in this week's state Department of Health report. That’s the biggest one-week surge since Jan. 27.

California, Texas, New York and Illinois altogether logged 73,116 new infections in the seven days leading up to Thursday, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported.

DeSantis and a few other red-state governors are responding to the significant increase in coronavirus cases and hospitalizations by reporting the information less frequently -- weekly instead of daily.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on July 25, 2021, 07:53:26 AM

Quote from: MU82 on July 25, 2021, 07:26:50 AM

DeSantis and a few other red-state governors are responding to the significant increase in coronavirus cases and hospitalizations by reporting the information less frequently -- weekly instead of daily.

Isn’t that kinda like “if we don’t test, we won’t have any cases”?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on July 29, 2021, 08:38:05 PM

Delta variant update:

Not good.

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1420895645326524418?s=19

Masks needed by everyone. More contagious. More severe. Can be spread by vaccinated.

IMO, there will be suggestions for shutdowns again and it's gonna get ugly.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on July 29, 2021, 10:00:02 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on July 29, 2021, 08:38:05 PM

Delta variant update:

Not good.

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1420895645326524418?s=19

Masks needed by everyone. More contagious. More severe. Can be spread by vaccinated.

IMO, there will be suggestions for shutdowns again and it's gonna get ugly.

I didn’t think it was clear vaccinated could spread it. The anonymous person said it could be possible in rare instances, but didn’t sound definitive.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on July 29, 2021, 10:03:06 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on July 29, 2021, 08:38:05 PM

Delta variant update:

Not good.

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1420895645326524418?s=19

Masks needed by everyone. More contagious. More severe. Can be spread by vaccinated.

IMO, there will be suggestions for shutdowns again and it's gonna get ugly.

This data was coming. Honestly surprised the CDC didn't act on some early preliminary data at an earlier time. Some of this preliminary data was why I had emphasized in other threads that this isn't over, even for vaccinated folks.

Let's just hope we don't get something worse than Delta. I have some concerns that a combination of high Delta infections in vaccinated folks could possibly contribute to an even stronger escape variant.

Quote from: cheebs09 on July 29, 2021, 10:00:02 PM

I didn’t think it was clear vaccinated could spread it. The anonymous person said it could be possible in rare instances, but didn’t sound definitive.

Vaccinated people could always spread COVID. What wasn't clear was whether asymptomatic vaccinated (and infected) people could spread it. That still isn't clear, but most likely of very low risk.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 30, 2021, 07:50:05 AM

Nah, it's basically over for vaccinated folks.  We just have to protect those who have refused to protect themselves.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on July 30, 2021, 07:58:46 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 30, 2021, 07:50:05 AM

Nah, it's basically over for vaccinated folks.  We just have to protect those who have refused to protect themselves.

Why? What happened to rugged individualism and pulling oneself up by their own bootstraps?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 30, 2021, 08:16:42 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on July 30, 2021, 07:58:46 AM

Why? What happened to rugged individualism and pulling oneself up by their own bootstraps?

Those snowflakes need protection

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on July 30, 2021, 08:30:01 AM

I celebrate this steadfast defense of freedom....for the virus.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on July 30, 2021, 09:03:27 AM

Quote from: tower912 on July 30, 2021, 08:30:01 AM

I celebrate this steadfast defense of freedom....for the virus.

We have to make sure this stays a country that any good, god-fearing virus would want its kids to grow up in.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 30, 2021, 09:20:39 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on July 30, 2021, 07:58:46 AM

Why? What happened to rugged individualism and pulling oneself up by their own bootstraps?

The virus doesn't care about one's bootstraps.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on July 30, 2021, 10:19:30 AM

It is good to see so many championing this visitor from elsewhere, fighting for its freedom to express itself, welcoming it into their homes and society, and fighting against anything that might impede it.

A segment of society has moved past its previous perceived xenophobia and placed the needs of the virus  before the needs of humanity.   Let's call them virus huggers

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 30, 2021, 12:08:48 PM

This is why it is largely over for the vaccinated.  And the only reason we might be going back to masking is because a significant portion of our society won't go through the effort of protecting themselves.  And patience is running low.

https://twitter.com/germanrlopez/status/1421149024808210434?s=20

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 30, 2021, 12:21:48 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 30, 2021, 12:08:48 PM

This is why it is largely over for the vaccinated.  And the only reason we might be going back to masking is because a significant portion of our society won't go through the effort of protecting themselves.  And patience is running low.

https://twitter.com/germanrlopez/status/1421149024808210434?s=20

He nicely stated exactly how I feel.  You ain't vaxxed?  So sorry, I can't hold your hand forever.  Some bad decisions just need to be experienced on their own.

People can whine about kids not being vaccinated and what a burden that is, but kids get sick all the time.  It's part of being a kid.  And covid doesn't put them in the hospital, so... just keep them home like any other flu season.  Also, it seems like the trials for the vaccine on kids is going well, so they may soon be eligible.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on July 30, 2021, 12:36:50 PM

It is putting them in the hospital now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 30, 2021, 12:44:40 PM

Quote from: tower912 on July 30, 2021, 12:36:50 PM

It is putting them in the hospital now.

From a few days ago.

https://services.aap.org/en/pages/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-infections/children-and-covid-19-state-level-data-report/

Quote

Hospitalizations (23 states and NYC reported)*

    Children were 1.3%-3.6% of total reported hospitalizations, and between 0.1%-1.9% of all child COVID-19 cases resulted in hospitalization


Mortality (43 states, NYC, PR and GU reported)*

    Children were 0.00%-0.26% of all COVID-19 deaths, and 8 states reported zero child deaths
    ​In states reporting, 0.00%-0.03% of all child COVID-19 cases resulted in death

I'm going to err on the side of statistics always.  Having said that, we will see in 3-4 weeks how many kids under 12 end up in the hospital.

Parents who are concerned shouldn't be letting their children play with others who may have been exposed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on July 30, 2021, 02:16:36 PM

*sigh*

https://twitter.com/germanrlopez/status/1421149024808210434?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on July 31, 2021, 07:36:33 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on July 29, 2021, 08:38:05 PM

Delta variant update:

Not good.

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1420895645326524418?s=19

Masks needed by everyone. More contagious. More severe. Can be spread by vaccinated.

IMO, there will be suggestions for shutdowns again and it's gonna get ugly.

Of course, mid-terms aren't that far off, aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on July 31, 2021, 11:06:11 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on July 31, 2021, 07:36:33 PM

Of course, mid-terms aren't that far off, aina?

Can you extrapolate your thought process?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on July 31, 2021, 11:21:59 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on July 31, 2021, 11:06:11 PM

Can you extrapolate your thought process?

You are saying there is one?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on August 01, 2021, 05:37:10 PM

Record hospitalizations in Florida right now...for a disease that is now preventable.

At some point GOP politicians and spreading lies about the disease and vaccines that lead to hesitancy in vaccination need to be held criminally and financially liable.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 01, 2021, 06:36:49 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on July 31, 2021, 11:06:11 PM

Can you extrapolate your thought process?

Continued power and control...rather obvious, aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 01, 2021, 06:48:13 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 01, 2021, 06:36:49 PM

Continued power and control...rather obvious, aina?

Masks are control, and somehow mandating masks means more votes?

Your brain is in the upside down, doc.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on August 01, 2021, 06:56:50 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 01, 2021, 06:36:49 PM

Continued power and control...rather obvious, aina?

I guess not.

What's the connection/link between midterm elections and a more dangerous strain of Covid?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 01, 2021, 07:16:29 PM

Again obvious...continued reliance on government as restrictions and monetary handouts are not only continued, but also increased. All in the name of covid, the gift that keeps on giving, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on August 01, 2021, 07:21:58 PM

NM.   No point to it.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 01, 2021, 07:29:00 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 01, 2021, 07:16:29 PM

Again obvious...continued reliance on government as restrictions and monetary handouts are not only continued, but also increased. All in the name of covid, the gift that keeps on giving, hey?

So the government is just making up the increased hospitalizations because they want to keep control?

Black helicopters aiina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on August 01, 2021, 07:47:35 PM

https://twitter.com/cleavon_md/status/1421947305444454403?s=21

10,207 people in Florida hospitalized with COVID-19, more than at any other time during the pandemic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 01, 2021, 07:52:50 PM

Did not say they are making it up. Yet, why test asymptomatic people? Pfizer's vaccine is 84% effective 6 months after administration. Pretty good odds, wouldn't you say? All this craziness is destroying lives in a multitude of ways, scarring children and depriving them of a legitimate education, destroying businesses, and bankrupting our future. Yes, continuing subsidies buys votes. Businesses are desperate for workers. But why work if you can collect $15/hr to sit on your fat ass? Why won't Blacks get the vaccine? What is the clergy's role in encouraging compliance? Bottom line is get the vaccine, shut the fook up, and carry on a normal life, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 01, 2021, 07:59:31 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 01, 2021, 07:52:50 PM

Bottom line is get the vaccine, shut the fook up, and carry on a normal life, hey?

Im sure there is something you could do instead of carrying on.  I’ve heard that some dentists offices are adding vaccination/booster services.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 01, 2021, 08:02:12 PM

No shortage of facilities to receive the vaccine. We are overloaded as is serving the public.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 01, 2021, 08:02:56 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 01, 2021, 08:02:12 PM

No shortage of facilities to receive the vaccine. We are overloaded as is serving the public.

You seem like someone that could be an advocate to break through hesitancy if you wanted.

Be the difference…

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 01, 2021, 08:14:37 PM

I have had several in depth conversations with patients. Not certain if I've been successful or not. Honestly, in my experience, the African-American population is by far the most skeptical and untrusting group I run across and $100 isn't going to change minds. In short, non-compliant conservatives simply don't believe any of the imposed measures are necessary and are willing to take their chances. Liberals run the spectrum from compliance to unhinged covid crazies.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on August 01, 2021, 08:49:48 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 01, 2021, 08:14:37 PM

I have had several in depth conversations with patients. Not certain if I've been successful or not. Honestly, in my experience, the African-American population is by far the most skeptical and untrusting group I run across and $100 isn't going to change minds. In short, non-compliant conservatives simply don't believe any of the imposed measures are necessary and are willing to take their chances. Liberals run the spectrum from compliance to unhinged covid crazies.

Move to a conservative state and you'll find that is not the case. In some deep red states people secretly get the vaccine and then lie to friends/family saying they haven't because they will be damn near disowned. Places where getting kicked out of a store for refusing to wear a mask gets your applause and is a badge of honor.

African American populations have a good reason to be hesitant, as historically they have been tested upon and abused. The far-right does not have any reason to be hesitant, except for party pride.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 01, 2021, 09:26:53 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 01, 2021, 08:14:37 PM

I have had several in depth conversations with patients. Not certain if I've been successful or not. Honestly, in my experience, the African-American population is by far the most skeptical and untrusting group I run across and $100 isn't going to change minds. In short, non-compliant conservatives simply don't believe any of the imposed measures are necessary and are willing to take their chances. Liberals run the spectrum from compliance to unhinged covid crazies.

Im not sure about the sorting/categories, but anyone not taking the vaccine is imposing harm and extending the pandemic on society.  Full hospitals make us all unsafe and cause a segment of society to withdraw from the economy/society.  Schools will not be normal until the majority of people think the pandemic is over.  We all pay when someone doesn’t take a free vaccine and ends up unnecessarily on a ventilator. 

Vaccines work. We all need to help our communities understand that. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on August 01, 2021, 09:27:06 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 01, 2021, 08:14:37 PM

I have had several in depth conversations with patients. Not certain if I've been successful or not. Honestly, in my experience, the African-American population is by far the most skeptical and untrusting group I run across and $100 isn't going to change minds. In short, non-compliant conservatives simply don't believe any of the imposed measures are necessary and are willing to take their chances. Liberals run the spectrum from compliance to unhinged covid crazies.

Who are the talking heads that are anti vax?

https://mobile.twitter.com/Roshan_Rinaldi/status/1421933417135022082

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 01, 2021, 09:32:34 PM

Phil Valentine dead yet?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on August 01, 2021, 09:59:39 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 01, 2021, 07:16:29 PM

Again obvious...continued reliance on government as restrictions and monetary handouts are not only continued, but also increased. All in the name of covid, the gift that keeps on giving, hey?

What handouts are being continued/increased in the name of Covid?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 02, 2021, 06:35:03 AM

Quote from: forgetful on August 01, 2021, 08:49:48 PM

Move to a conservative state and you'll find that is not the case. In some deep red states people secretly get the vaccine and then lie to friends/family saying they haven't because they will be damn near disowned. Places where getting kicked out of a store for refusing to wear a mask gets your applause and is a badge of honor.

We have students getting vaccinated and then refusing to tell their families. In almost all cases, they are white, conservative and relatively rural.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on August 02, 2021, 06:48:27 AM

Afraid to come out as vaccinated.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on August 02, 2021, 06:54:59 AM

Quote from: tower912 on August 02, 2021, 06:48:27 AM

Afraid to come out as vaccinated.

But being “controlled by the government” or something

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 02, 2021, 07:08:23 AM

In one case, we have an older sister going ballistic that her younger sister will have to abide by certain protocols for the unvaccinated on campus this year. She has been threatening to call lawyers and demanding guarantees that her sister won’t be sterilized through the vaccine.

But the older sister doesn’t realize that the younger one is vaccinated and scared to let her know.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 02, 2021, 09:09:37 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 01, 2021, 08:14:37 PM

I have had several in depth conversations with patients. Not certain if I've been successful or not. Honestly, in my experience, the African-American population is by far the most skeptical and untrusting group I run across and $100 isn't going to change minds. In short, non-compliant conservatives simply don't believe any of the imposed measures are necessary and are willing to take their chances. Liberals run the spectrum from compliance to unhinged covid crazies.

We have one political party whose popular leaders are drawing standing ovations at rallies for ripping on the vaccine. We have the governor of one of the most Delta-infected states selling anti-science merchandise to stock his campaign fund. We have right-wing media outlets actively undermining vaccination efforts. And we have MAGA counties in red states avoiding the vaccine in droves.

But yes, it's libs and Blacks -- and don't forget illegals streaming across the border! -- who are causing COVID-19 spikes in Missouri.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on August 02, 2021, 10:08:34 AM

Quote from: MU82 on August 02, 2021, 09:09:37 AM

But yes, it's libs and Blacks -- and don't forget illegals streaming across the border! -- who are causing COVID-19 spikes in Missouri.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/07/29/missouri-doctor-says-people-disguise-coming-covid-vaccine/5413341001/

Sad world.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 02, 2021, 10:33:29 AM

Quote from: MU82 on August 02, 2021, 09:09:37 AM

We have one political party whose popular leaders are drawing standing ovations at rallies for ripping on the vaccine. We have the governor of one of the most Delta-infected states selling anti-science merchandise to stock his campaign fund. We have right-wing media outlets actively undermining vaccination efforts. And we have MAGA counties in red states avoiding the vaccine in droves.

But yes, it's libs and Blacks -- and don't forget illegals streaming across the border! -- who are causing COVID-19 spikes in Missouri.

And we have teachers who don't want to teach, business owners who are either hurting or gone out completely, people who don't want to work, landlords who can't collect their due rent, unmeasurable psychological issues related to covid and its handling, etc., etc.
When's it going to end, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on August 02, 2021, 10:34:43 AM

When it is finally taken seriously.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on August 02, 2021, 10:43:48 AM

Quote from: Retire0 on August 02, 2021, 10:08:34 AM

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/07/29/missouri-doctor-says-people-disguise-coming-covid-vaccine/5413341001/

Sad world.

Gosh, that’s depressing. My perception is it is more a political issue than health issue.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on August 02, 2021, 10:44:36 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 02, 2021, 10:33:29 AM

And we have teachers who don't want to teach, business owners who are either hurting or gone out completely, people who don't want to work, landlords who can't collect their due rent, unmeasurable psychological issues related to covid and its handling, etc., etc.
When's it going to end, hey?

Probably never. I've kinda resigned myself to the fact that eventually Covid illness and death will be normalized as just "another thing that happens." We're pretty good at tolerating fatal risks as a society when we've decided they're too hard to fix or prevent. It's only a matter of time before this becomes one of them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 02, 2021, 11:02:40 AM

Quote from: jficke13 on August 02, 2021, 10:44:36 AM

Probably never. I've kinda resigned myself to the fact that eventually Covid illness and death will be normalized as just "another thing that happens." We're pretty good at tolerating fatal risks as a society when we've decided they're too hard to fix or prevent. It's only a matter of time before this becomes one of them.

Yep.  I actually thought we were there already, or at least would have been with higher vaccination rate.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on August 02, 2021, 11:08:17 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 02, 2021, 11:02:40 AM

Yep.  I actually thought we were there already, or at least would have been with higher vaccination rate.

To me the interesting thing that remains is whether there is going to be any willpower to treat a positive test as a public health issue. As in five years from now when everyone's given up even pretending to take covid seriously: I feel bad, I get tested, I test positive, will there be any mechanism in place to quarantine me etc or is it just kinda like the flu or a cold where people go to school or work if they're not terribly ill? Will an asymptomatic NFL player get listed as "Questionable - Chest" and play on Sunday anyway like he might have if he had a sinus infection?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 02, 2021, 11:13:16 AM

That's pretty much what happened with the 1917 Flu pandemic right? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on August 02, 2021, 01:31:25 PM

We'll do whatever is in the best interests of the wealthy and political elite classes.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on August 02, 2021, 01:34:59 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 02, 2021, 10:33:29 AM

And we have teachers who don't want to teach, business owners who are either hurting or gone out completely, people who don't want to work, landlords who can't collect their due rent, unmeasurable psychological issues related to covid and its handling, etc., etc.
When's it going to end, hey?

This is all fluff and bloviating without any numbers behind it.

Btw, still waiting on what increased handouts are occurring in the name of covid.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 02, 2021, 02:17:44 PM

Quote from: jficke13 on August 02, 2021, 10:44:36 AM

Probably never. I've kinda resigned myself to the fact that eventually Covid illness and death will be normalized as just "another thing that happens." We're pretty good at tolerating fatal risks as a society when we've decided they're too hard to fix or prevent. It's only a matter of time before this becomes one of them.

Except, as we all know, this one isn't too hard to fix.

Get the unnatural carnal knowledgeing shot you unnatural carnal knowledgeing morons.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on August 02, 2021, 02:31:20 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 02, 2021, 02:17:44 PM

Except, as we all know, this one isn't too hard to fix.

Get the unnatural carnal knowledgeing shot you unnatural carnal knowledgeing morons.

I agree with you. If I had my way nobody would have a choice. It would be shot in arm period no excuses ala smallpox. But, alas, we've created a world where we tolerate vaccine refusers (mock them, rage at them, shake fists at them, institute mostly toothless restrictions against them, but in the end tolerate them) and if we lack the political will to round them up and administer the shot against their will or to punish them severely enough to motivate them to choose to do it, e.g. we're relying on convincing people to do it, then the problem actually is too hard to solve because no amount of comms strategy adjustment is getting Qanon-poisoned people to get the vaccine.

Since we won't force abstainers to get the shot, we're all just going to have to live with it. I'm glad smallpox got eradicated when it did.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 02, 2021, 02:31:39 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 02, 2021, 02:17:44 PM

Except, as we all know, this one isn't too hard to fix.

Get the unnatural carnal knowledgeing shot you unnatural carnal knowledgeing morons.

I believe I saw today we are now at Biden’s goal of 70% of Americans getting at least their first shot.  So we hit his goal yet still seem to be on a path back to mask mandates and other restrictions.  We did our part (generally speaking) and helped the administration hit their goal, albeit a couple weeks late.  Now it’s their time to hold up their end of the bargain and let us return to normal without threat of increased restrictions etc.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on August 02, 2021, 02:41:16 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 02, 2021, 02:31:39 PM

I believe I saw today we are now at Biden’s goal of 70% of Americans getting at least their first shot.  So we hit his goal yet still seem to be on a path back to mask mandates and other restrictions.  We did our part (generally speaking) and helped the administration hit their goal, albeit a couple weeks late.  Now it’s their time to hold up their end of the bargain and let us return to normal without threat of increased restrictions etc.

That's not how this works and you know it.

Not with the delta variant. 70% would have been enough before delta spread. Now it's not.

Science moves. Treatments change.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on August 02, 2021, 02:43:21 PM

A large problem with the lack of workers is the lack of day care.    And the unwillingness of mothers (or stay at home fathers) to put their unvaccinated child in a day care with other unvaccinated children.    Because, despite what the virus lovers are trying to get you to believe, the Delta variant does affect children.   

It isn't laziness.   It isn't sitting on their ass because of overly generous unemployment benefits.    Many families have figured out how to make it on one income and are unwilling to endanger their children.    Home schooling will be up again this fall.   

And day care is having a problem on both ends because there aren't enough people willing to work for minimum wage and be exposed to all of these unvaccinated children.     

So, how do you propose to have adequate affordable day care for the unvaccinated?     


Can you imagine if Americans had taken the same attitude toward Nazis, smallpox, polio, measles that they have toward COVID?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on August 02, 2021, 02:54:19 PM

Quote from: tower912 on August 02, 2021, 02:43:21 PM

A large problem with the lack of workers is the lack of day care.    And the unwillingness of mothers (or stay at home fathers) to put their unvaccinated child in a day care with other unvaccinated children.    Because, despite what the virus lovers are trying to get you to believe, the Delta variant does affect children.   

It isn't laziness.   It isn't sitting on their ass because of overly generous unemployment benefits.    Many families have figured out how to make it on one income and are unwilling to endanger their children.    Home schooling will be up again this fall.   

And day care is having a problem on both ends because there aren't enough people willing to work for minimum wage and be exposed to all of these unvaccinated children.     

So, how do you propose to have adequate affordable day care for the unvaccinated?     


Can you imagine if Americans had taken the same attitude toward Nazis, smallpox, polio, measles that they have toward COVID?

To be fair, some did when it came to the Nazi’s.  I’m also fully convinced we’d still have smallpox, polio and measles if there had been social media back in the day

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on August 02, 2021, 02:59:08 PM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on August 02, 2021, 02:54:19 PM

To be fair, some did when it came to the Nazi’s. 

Some still do.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 02, 2021, 03:05:46 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on August 02, 2021, 02:41:16 PM

That's not how this works and you know it.

Not with the delta variant. 70% would have been enough before delta spread. Now it's not.

Science moves. Treatments change.

That’s right, forgot about delta….damn the luck!!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on August 02, 2021, 03:31:48 PM

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/u-labor-revival-doubt-delta-100651590.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on August 02, 2021, 04:14:33 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 02, 2021, 03:05:46 PM

That’s right, forgot about delta….damn the luck!!!

Congrats on being the 2nd most disingenuous poster on the board

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on August 02, 2021, 04:46:51 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on August 02, 2021, 04:14:33 PM

Congrats on being the 2nd most disingenuous poster on the board

That's generous of you. I just assume they're sincere idiots.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 02, 2021, 05:04:17 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 02, 2021, 02:31:39 PM

I believe I saw today we are now at Biden’s goal of 70% of Americans getting at least their first shot.  So we hit his goal yet still seem to be on a path back to mask mandates and other restrictions.  We did our part (generally speaking) and helped the administration hit their goal, albeit a couple weeks late.  Now it’s their time to hold up their end of the bargain and let us return to normal without threat of increased restrictions etc.

Disingenuous trolling. Again.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 02, 2021, 05:08:49 PM

forgetful, gooo, care to weigh in on lambda?

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210730/Scientists-suspect-Lambda-SARS-CoV-2-variant-most-dangerous.aspx

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 02, 2021, 05:22:55 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 02, 2021, 10:33:29 AM

When's it going to end, hey?

I suggest you direct your question to all of your heroes who haven’t been doing their part, nu?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 02, 2021, 05:26:39 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 02, 2021, 05:04:17 PM

Disingenuous trolling. Again.

What’s disingenuous or trolling about that post?  Biden said once we hit 70% we can go back to normal, we’re there and the vaccine is proving to be very effective against Delta?

Do you not believe in the efficacy of the vaccine?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 02, 2021, 05:40:54 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 02, 2021, 05:26:39 PM

What’s disingenuous or trolling about that post?  Biden said once we hit 70% we can go back to normal, we’re there and the vaccine is proving to be very effective against Delta?

Do you not believe in the efficacy of the vaccine?

(https://images2.imgbox.com/89/2c/3gl0st26_o.png) (https://imgbox.com/3gl0st26)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 02, 2021, 05:51:04 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 02, 2021, 05:40:54 PM

(https://images2.imgbox.com/89/2c/3gl0st26_o.png) (https://imgbox.com/3gl0st26)

Good talk.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 02, 2021, 06:21:27 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 02, 2021, 05:08:49 PM

forgetful, gooo, care to weigh in on lambda?

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210730/Scientists-suspect-Lambda-SARS-CoV-2-variant-most-dangerous.aspx

We're all gonna die.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 02, 2021, 06:51:25 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on August 02, 2021, 06:21:27 PM

We're all gonna die.

Eventually. I'd like not to hasten it unnecessarily though.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on August 02, 2021, 06:52:04 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 02, 2021, 05:26:39 PM

What’s disingenuous or trolling about that post?  Biden said once we hit 70% we can go back to normal, we’re there and the vaccine is proving to be very effective against Delta?

Do you not believe in the efficacy of the vaccine?

Are you concerned with unchecked spread of Delta through unvaccinated populations could lead to more variants that perhaps will be worse?

Do you acknowledge that variables have changed since his statement?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 02, 2021, 07:12:04 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on August 02, 2021, 06:52:04 PM

Are you concerned with unchecked spread of Delta through unvaccinated populations could lead to more variants that perhaps will be worse?

Do you acknowledge that variables have changed since his statement?

No I don’t agree things have changed.  There is a new variant that current vaccines are highly effective against in preventing serious illness and/or death.  There were multiple variants then, there are multiple variants now.  Until one proves resistant to any of the current vaccines what has really changed?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 02, 2021, 07:13:33 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on August 02, 2021, 06:52:04 PM

Are you concerned with unchecked spread of Delta through unvaccinated populations could lead to more variants that perhaps will be worse?

Do you acknowledge that variables have changed since his statement?

And no I’m not concerned about the unchecked spread amongst the unvaccinated.  They have had ample opportunity to get the poke. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on August 02, 2021, 07:43:29 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 02, 2021, 07:13:33 PM

And no I’m not concerned about the unchecked spread amongst the unvaccinated.  They have had ample opportunity to get the poke.

Not if they are under 12. Also, while still very effective, I think vaccines are less effective against Delta.

I’m vaccinated and not all that worried about Delta for myself. However, still nervous for my daughter. As others have said, unvaccinated is not just those who choose not to get the poke. The good news is I think the outcomes are still pretty good for kids with this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 02, 2021, 07:48:09 PM

Quote from: cheebs09 on August 02, 2021, 07:43:29 PM

Not if they are under 12. Also, while still very effective, I think vaccines are less effective against Delta.

I’m vaccinated and not all that worried about Delta for myself. However, still nervous for my daughter. As others have said, unvaccinated is not just those who choose not to get the poke. The good news is I think the outcomes are still pretty good for kids with this.

Outcomes are still very good for kids.  From what I’ve seen even delta poses much less of a risk then influenza to kids.

We were over the moon with j&j being 67% effective against initial strains of Covid.  mRNA is much more effective then 67% against Delta.  If it was good enough then, should be good enough now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on August 02, 2021, 07:50:00 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 02, 2021, 07:13:33 PM

And no I’m not concerned about the unchecked spread amongst the unvaccinated.  They have had ample opportunity to get the poke.

You missed the 2nd part of that question.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on August 02, 2021, 07:52:06 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 02, 2021, 07:12:04 PM

No I don’t agree things have changed.  There is a new variant that current vaccines are highly effective against in preventing serious illness and/or death.  There were multiple variants then, there are multiple variants now.  Until one proves resistant to any of the current vaccines what has really changed?

Well, then you're objectively wrong.

At the time Biden said that, Delta was not rampaging around the US.

Had the US achieved 70% before Delta got here, we likely wouldn't be talking about Delta at all.

And, again, unchecked variant spread begets new variants. Why would you demand we wait until a worse variant presents itself? Why not prevent, as much as we can, that new variant from even forming?

You should go read up on some virology.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 02, 2021, 08:28:40 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on August 02, 2021, 07:50:00 PM

You missed the 2nd part of that question.

What’s the second part?  The what if about future potential variants.  Until we have global her immunity there will always be new variants.  Delta came from India, had nothing to do with us reaching 70% sooner.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on August 02, 2021, 09:30:02 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 02, 2021, 05:08:49 PM

forgetful, gooo, care to weigh in on lambda?

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210730/Scientists-suspect-Lambda-SARS-CoV-2-variant-most-dangerous.aspx

There have been a couple disheartening developments lately, both still not peer-reviewed (this is one of them). Lambda looks to combine the ease of spread of Delta with variants that evade the existing neutralizing antibodies. That's a bad combination. It also was prevalent in Chile, where vaccination rates are high.

It highlights the risks of variants spreading widely amongst the vaccinated/unvaccinated. It puts a selective pressure (vaccination) on the virus that can lead to the emergence of escape variants. Let's see what additional research comes out on the degree to which Delta can escape existing vaccines. It is certainly a worrisome development.

The other is data coming out of Rockefeller University that shows that although booster shots can increase antibody levels, they are unlikely to boost resistance to escape variants. Which means new versions of the vaccine will need to be developed. The good news is both Pfizer and Moderna are already looking at this...the question is which variant to design the booster vaccine off of.

The good news from the Rockefeller study, those that were infected, and then later got a vaccine have antibodies that are broadly efficacious agains all current variants of concern.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 02, 2021, 09:44:58 PM

Quote from: forgetful on August 02, 2021, 09:30:02 PM

There have been a couple disheartening developments lately, both still not peer-reviewed (this is one of them). Lambda looks to combine the ease of spread of Delta with variants that evade the existing neutralizing antibodies. That's a bad combination. It also was prevalent in Chile, where vaccination rates are high.

It highlights the risks of variants spreading widely amongst the vaccinated/unvaccinated. It puts a selective pressure (vaccination) on the virus that can lead to the emergence of escape variants. Let's see what additional research comes out on the degree to which Delta can escape existing vaccines. It is certainly a worrisome development.

The other is data coming out of Rockefeller University that shows that although booster shots can increase antibody levels, they are unlikely to boost resistance to escape variants. Which means new versions of the vaccine will need to be developed. The good news is both Pfizer and Moderna are already looking at this...the question is which variant to design the booster vaccine off of.

The good news from the Rockefeller study, those that were infected, and then later got a vaccine have antibodies that are broadly efficacious agains all current variants of concern.

Am i understanding escape variants correctly.  They emerge from people getting  the existing vaccines?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on August 02, 2021, 10:05:52 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 02, 2021, 09:44:58 PM

Am i understanding escape variants correctly.  They emerge from people getting  the existing vaccines?

You are not. Variants emerge as due to natural selection. Variants that spread more readily eventually out compete (for hosts) other variants. This is most likely to occur as a natural process in unvaccinated individuals.

What can occur in vaccinated/or previously infected individuals, is that over time selective pressures can develop, e.g. immunity to the original form of the virus, whether natural immunity or vaccine-based immunity. If a virus can get hold in these populations, possibly due to a weakened immune system, then any mutations that occur during normal replication that enhance infectivity will win. In my opinion, the presence of a selective pressure leads to a more likely possibility of an escape variant; albeit with a caveat...it is much less likely a virus will be replicating in a vaccinated host. We use these selective pressures in many laboratory experiments to evolve proteins, or organisms with desired traits.

Although unlikely, a replicating virus in a "immune" host can lead to a true escape variant. That is why it is important to vaccinate EVERYONE. No hosts to spread, no risk of variants.

There are some situations that can increase this low level likelihood though. Some of the original variants developed in people with compromised immune systems that retained low-level replicating virus for months. That kind of environment allows a lot of time for mutations to accumulate.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 02, 2021, 10:12:20 PM

Quote from: forgetful on August 02, 2021, 10:05:52 PM

You are not. Variants emerge as due to natural selection. Variants that spread more readily eventually out compete (for hosts) other variants. This is most likely to occur as a natural process in unvaccinated individuals.

What can occur in vaccinated/or previously infected individuals, is that over time selective pressures can develop, e.g. immunity to the original form of the virus, whether natural immunity or vaccine-based immunity. If a virus can get hold in these populations, possibly due to a weakened immune system, then any mutations that occur during normal replication that enhance infectivity will win. In my opinion, the presence of a selective pressure leads to a more likely possibility of an escape variant; albeit with a caveat...it is much less likely a virus will be replicating in a vaccinated host. We use these selective pressures in many laboratory experiments to evolve proteins, or organisms with desired traits.

Although unlikely, a replicating virus in a "immune" host can lead to a true escape variant. That is why it is important to vaccinate EVERYONE. No hosts to spread, no risk of variants.

There are some situations that can increase this low level likelihood though. Some of the original variants developed in people with compromised immune systems that retained low-level replicating virus for months. That kind of environment allows a lot of time for mutations to accumulate.

Phew!!  Next time starting and ending with “you are not” works for me but appreciate the explanation.  Didn’t understand half of it but was relieved by the little I did learn. 👍

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on August 02, 2021, 10:21:30 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 02, 2021, 10:33:29 AM

And we have teachers who don't want to teach, business owners who are either hurting or gone out completely, people who don't want to work, landlords who can't collect their due rent, unmeasurable psychological issues related to covid and its handling, etc., etc.
When's it going to end, hey?

Probably never with idiots like this:

Top RNC official in Florida spreads Covid-19 conspiracies, calling vaccines the 'mark of the beast'
https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/02/politics/kfile-rnc-peter-feaman-covid-19-vaccine/index.html

Amid recent surging coronavirus cases in Florida, a top Republican National Committee official in the state has spread anti-vaccine rhetoric and misinformation, comparing the Biden administration's vaccine efforts to Nazi-era "brown shirts," and twice calling the vaccines "the mark of the beast," comparable to a "false god."

Feaman is one of three officials representing Florida in the governing body of the RNC, the political committee which leads the Republican Party. He has served in the position since 2012.
His reelection to the position in 2020 at an annual Florida Republican Party meeting was supported by state party chairman Joe Gruters, and he was previously appointed to nomination commissions for state and federal judges by Sen. Marco Rubio and then-Florida Gov. Rick Scott. He also served as an elector in the 2016 and 2020 presidential election.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 03, 2021, 09:55:11 AM

As I have stated here before, we know who the killers are.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on August 03, 2021, 01:33:42 PM

The 'Mr. Brightside' band?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 03, 2021, 02:17:28 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 02, 2021, 07:48:09 PM

Outcomes are still very good for kids.

Kids are already getting it -- I've already mentioned 4 that my wife has treated -- and an unfortunate few are even dying. So, we need to wait until what percentage of covid-infected kids end up in hospitals or morgues before we care about them getting this deadly virus from their selfish, unvaccinated relatives? 1%? 3%? 5%?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on August 03, 2021, 02:56:44 PM

The largest hospital in Louisiana is currently at full capacity, with all ICU beds occupied due to the COVID surge. They acknowledge they are no longer able to provide adequate care to some patients.

That means if a person needs an ICU bed, for a reason other than COVID, they are unable to get one. Someone may die, because you didn't want to get a vaccine and took their ICU bed.

In that hospital, 25% of all beds are occupied by COVID patients. 25% of all beds, same preventable diagnosis.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 03, 2021, 03:34:00 PM

Quote from: forgetful on August 03, 2021, 02:56:44 PM

The largest hospital in Louisiana is currently at full capacity, with all ICU beds occupied due to the COVID surge. They acknowledge they are no longer able to provide adequate care to some patients.

That means if a person needs an ICU bed, for a reason other than COVID, they are unable to get one. Someone may die, because you didn't want to get a vaccine and took their ICU bed.

In that hospital, 25% of all beds are occupied by COVID patients. 25% of all beds, same preventable diagnosis.

Yep. Some of those who are shrugging their shoulders now about "the unvaccinated are only punishing themselves; it's a personal choice; yada yada yada" ... I sincerely hope none of them will have a loved one denied a bed because the hospital is overwhelmed by selfish and/or misinformed anti-vaxxers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 03, 2021, 04:23:01 PM

Quote from: MU82 on August 03, 2021, 03:34:00 PM

Yep. Some of those who are shrugging their shoulders now about "the unvaccinated are only punishing themselves; it's a personal choice; yada yada yada" ... I sincerely hope none of them will have a loved one denied a bed because the hospital is overwhelmed by selfish and/or misinformed anti-vaxxers.

Whether we shrug our shoulders at it or not, what difference does our opinion or posts make with the vaccinated % in Louisiana.

Seems like something their gov or our federal leadership should be focusing on.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 03, 2021, 04:24:01 PM

Quote from: forgetful on August 03, 2021, 02:56:44 PM

The largest hospital in Louisiana is currently at full capacity, with all ICU beds occupied due to the COVID surge. They acknowledge they are no longer able to provide adequate care to some patients.

That means if a person needs an ICU bed, for a reason other than COVID, they are unable to get one. Someone may die, because you didn't want to get a vaccine and took their ICU bed.

In that hospital, 25% of all beds are occupied by COVID patients. 25% of all beds, same preventable diagnosis.

Do you know if the hospitals in Louisiana have shut down elective surgeries to help free up additional beds? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on August 03, 2021, 06:54:59 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 03, 2021, 04:24:01 PM

Do you know if the hospitals in Louisiana have shut down elective surgeries to help free up additional beds?

I can't find it now, but earlier today I read a tweet from a distraught Louisiana woman whose cancer surgery was postponed because all the beds at the hospital are full of Covid patients. She is fully vaccinated.

It's just freakin unfair.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 03, 2021, 07:15:56 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on August 03, 2021, 06:54:59 PM

It's just freakin unfair.

It is completely unfair.

We’re all living with the consequences of people’s choices like it or not. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on August 03, 2021, 07:55:35 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 03, 2021, 04:24:01 PM

Do you know if the hospitals in Louisiana have shut down elective surgeries to help free up additional beds?

Yes, for over a week, because of a COVID surge.

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 03, 2021, 04:23:01 PM

Whether we shrug our shoulders at it or not, what difference does our opinion or posts make with the vaccinated % in Louisiana.

Seems like something their gov or our federal leadership should be focusing on.   

If you want to help, here's a step in the right direction, refuse to ever support any politician, or media enterprise that spreads lies regarding the vaccine. Refuse to support any politician, or media enterprise that perpetrated lies that this was "just the flu" or it was a giant hoax. Speak out against them.

These are the people that led to the current situation. They sacrificed peoples lives and the good of the nation for political points.

Science and medicine aren't politics. Peoples lives aren't pawns in some political game.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 03, 2021, 08:53:37 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 03, 2021, 04:23:01 PM

Whether we shrug our shoulders at it or not, what difference does our opinion or posts make with the vaccinated % in Louisiana.

Seems like something their gov or our federal leadership should be focusing on.

What forgetful said.

I mean… think of any cause or issue that matters to you … what difference can you make as one person?

So …

Stop supporting politicians who are actively and even aggressively trying to undermine our vaccine program; and start supporting those who are actively trying to make it work.

Also … all life is precious, right? So we should care about all of them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 03, 2021, 09:02:58 PM

Quote from: forgetful on August 03, 2021, 07:55:35 PM

Yes, for over a week, because of a COVID surge.

If you want to help, here's a step in the right direction, refuse to ever support any politician, or media enterprise that spreads lies regarding the vaccine. Refuse to support any politician, or media enterprise that perpetrated lies that this was "just the flu" or it was a giant hoax. Speak out against them.

These are the people that led to the current situation. They sacrificed peoples lives and the good of the nation for political points.

Science and medicine aren't politics. Peoples lives aren't pawns in some political game.

Yes sir!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on August 03, 2021, 11:46:47 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 03, 2021, 07:15:56 PM

It is completely unfair.

We’re all living with the consequences of people’s choices like it or not.

Yah capitalism?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 04, 2021, 06:25:21 AM

Guys, it time to stop talking about this as a pandemic, and start accepting that Covid is going to be endemic.

We're going to see this every year for the rest of our lives, and short of some super vaccine that can stop all known variants, and it being administered worldwide within a couple week period, this is our world now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 04, 2021, 06:33:56 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on August 04, 2021, 06:25:21 AM

Guys, it time to stop talking about this as a pandemic, and start accepting that Covid is going to be endemic.

We're going to see this every year for the rest of our lives, and short of some super vaccine that can stop all known variants, and it being administered worldwide within a couple week period, this is our world now.

Ya I think you’re exactly right and that is why it’s becoming even more important to figure out the origins. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 04, 2021, 06:53:51 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 04, 2021, 06:33:56 AM

Ya I think you’re exactly right and that is why it’s becoming even more important to figure out the origins.

Uh, no, that'd be a waste of time and money.  Casting blame is pointless.  I assume what you're getting at is that the virus leaked from the lab in Wuhan.  Okay, great, we find that out and then what?  Do you think that IF it leaked from there that the lab hasn't adjusted it's safety protocols in the last year and a half?  Do you want to be punitive?  Do you think the US doesn't have 'research' sites that do the exact same thing?

Literally, no point in finding out the origin as some matter of urgency.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 04, 2021, 07:13:37 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on August 04, 2021, 06:53:51 AM

Uh, no, that'd be a waste of time and money.  Casting blame is pointless.  I assume what you're getting at is that the virus leaked from the lab in Wuhan.  Okay, great, we find that out and then what?  Do you think that IF it leaked from there that the lab hasn't adjusted it's safety protocols in the last year and a half?  Do you want to be punitive?  Do you think the US doesn't have 'research' sites that do the exact same thing?

Literally, no point in finding out the origin as some matter of urgency.

That’s fine, not trying to convince you to change your mind.  IMO it’d be nice to know who, how, and why the world got flipped on its axis the past 18 months and the reason for why we now have a new illness that has become an endemic. 

Can you imagine in 50 years when people ask about the introduction of Covid-19 and people ask how it started with our reply being 🤷‍♂️  Never really found it to be urgent or important to ask those questions.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 04, 2021, 08:41:33 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on August 04, 2021, 06:53:51 AM

Uh, no, that'd be a waste of time and money.  Casting blame is pointless.  I assume what you're getting at is that the virus leaked from the lab in Wuhan.  Okay, great, we find that out and then what?  Do you think that IF it leaked from there that the lab hasn't adjusted it's safety protocols in the last year and a half?  Do you want to be punitive?  Do you think the US doesn't have 'research' sites that do the exact same thing?

Literally, no point in finding out the origin as some matter of urgency.

He's merely trolling you, hards.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on August 04, 2021, 08:56:29 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 04, 2021, 08:41:33 AM

He's merely trolling you, hards.

<points finger up>

yup, sea lion is gonna sea lion.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on August 04, 2021, 09:25:16 AM

Quote from: tower912 on August 03, 2021, 01:33:42 PM

The 'Mr. Brightside' band?

This awesome comment deserved more attention

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 04, 2021, 09:29:00 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 04, 2021, 08:41:33 AM

He's merely trolling you, hards.

How is that trolling.  To not look into the origins of what caused millions of people to die seems silly. 

Not great analogies but after JFK was assassinated we didn’t throw our hands up and say, “welp we already got a new president and the secret service has made the necessary adjustments to ensure this won’t happen again so who gives a rip why this happened”

With 09/11, we didn’t say “ahh shoot, we’ve already gone to war and are making the necessary changes to ensure sure this doesn’t happen again so forget the why, who, how”

This has been a once in a lifetime pandemic that is ongoing and we don’t find it important to figure out how the hell this happened and who played a role?  I just can’t get on board with that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on August 04, 2021, 09:35:40 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 04, 2021, 09:29:00 AM

How is that trolling.  To not look into the origins of what caused millions of people to die seems silly. 

Not great analogies but after JFK was assassinated we didn’t throw our hands up and say, “welp we already got a new president and the secret service has made the necessary adjustments to ensure this won’t happen again so who gives a rip why this happened”

With 09/11, we didn’t say “ahh shoot, we’ve already gone to war and are making the necessary changes to ensure sure this doesn’t happen again so forget the why, who, how”

This has been a once in a lifetime pandemic that is ongoing and we don’t find it important to figure out how the hell this happened and who played a role?  I just can’t get on board with that.

I think it’s important that we learn what happened so we can help prevent it in the future. I also don’t think it’s a top priority thing right now. More pressing issues like stopping the Delta variant, potential future variants, and increasing vaccinations.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on August 04, 2021, 09:45:53 AM

Regarding virus origin tracking: I think you guys underestimate how much animal -> human virus transmission there is in SE Asia. There's a reason that so many people in countries over there wear masks all the time. It's because of the pollution. But also because they can't afford to get sick because many are desperately poor. And also because there are novel viruses more frequently than there are in the West.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on August 04, 2021, 09:54:49 AM

Quote from: Skatastrophy on August 04, 2021, 09:45:53 AM

Regarding virus origin tracking: I think you guys underestimate how much animal -> human virus transmission there is in SE Asia. There's a reason that so many people in countries over there wear masks all the time. It's because of the pollution. But also because they can't afford to get sick because many are desperately poor. And also because there are novel viruses more frequently than there are in the West.

This is accurate.  Not that we shouldn’t try and find the origins, we should because of the potential breakthroughs scientifically, but we still don’t have a definitive answer about the origin point of the 1918 pandemic.  Good faith investigations versus merely political investigations with preconceived notions are what are needed and that’s not what the poster who suggested it wants

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 04, 2021, 10:01:40 AM

Quote from: cheebs09 on August 04, 2021, 09:35:40 AM

I think it’s important that we learn what happened so we can help prevent it in the future. I also don’t think it’s a top priority thing right now. More pressing issues like stopping the Delta variant, potential future variants, and increasing vaccinations.

Agree with that as well

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 04, 2021, 10:02:22 AM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on August 04, 2021, 09:54:49 AM

This is accurate.  Not that we shouldn’t try and find the origins, we should because of the potential breakthroughs scientifically, but we still don’t have a definitive answer about the origin point of the 1918 pandemic.  Good faith investigations versus merely political investigations with preconceived notions are what are needed and that’s not what the poster who suggested it wants

It’s exactly what I want.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 04, 2021, 10:06:28 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 04, 2021, 09:29:00 AM

How is that trolling.  To not look into the origins of what caused millions of people to die seems silly. 

Not great Terrible analogies but after JFK was assassinated we didn’t throw our hands up and say, “welp we already got a new president and the secret service has made the necessary adjustments to ensure this won’t happen again so who gives a rip why this happened”

With 09/11, we didn’t say “ahh shoot, we’ve already gone to war and are making the necessary changes to ensure sure this doesn’t happen again so forget the why, who, how”

This has been a once in a lifetime pandemic that is ongoing and we don’t find it important to figure out how the hell this happened and who played a role?  I just can’t get on board with that.

Fixed that for you.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on August 04, 2021, 10:21:22 AM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on August 04, 2021, 09:54:49 AM

This is accurate.  Not that we shouldn’t try and find the origins, we should because of the potential breakthroughs scientifically, but we still don’t have a definitive answer about the origin point of the 1918 pandemic.  Good faith investigations versus merely political investigations with preconceived notions are what are needed and that’s not what the poster who suggested it wants

This is the problem. At this point there is a near zero chance we actually find the origin. It will be all speculation. And there is also zero reason for the Chinese to cooperate, they are well aware that political entities in the US have zero interest in determining facts, they want to be able to justify blame on someone else (e.g. the Chinese). As an example, the article below is horrendous and further justifies not cooperating.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/rep-mccaul-wuhan-lab-report-china-covid-republicans
 (https://www.foxnews.com/media/rep-mccaul-wuhan-lab-report-china-covid-republicans)

The supposed bombshell report of the "greatest cover-up in human history" is based on public work orders to do maintenance and construction at the research facilities. That is something extremely routine, but is being exploited as proof of a cover-up. It's absurd and highlights the lack of interest of these parties in actually understanding what happened. They have zero interest in facts, 100% interest in spin/blame.

If we want to do investigations on origins. Let's look at how we failed to handle nearly every aspect of this from day 1 once we knew of the virus. Let's examine our failures to get people to buy in on vaccination, which is leading to this likely being endemic.

We could have stamped this out entirely in the US. We had the vaccines, and production capacity. We just lacked buy-in for both historical mistreatment of populations, and political drives to deliberately damage the US so an entity can do better in mid-terms/next presidential election.

Those investigations can get answers, much needed answers that can prevent massive issues like this in the future. But they don't want to do that investigation, because the blame is on them.

Remember the old mantra, when you point a finger at someone, there are 3-pointing right back at you.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 04, 2021, 10:24:28 AM

Quote from: forgetful on August 04, 2021, 10:21:22 AM

This is the problem. At this point there is a near zero chance we actually find the origin. It will be all speculation. And there is also zero reason for the Chinese to cooperate, they are well aware that political entities in the US have zero interest in determining facts, they want to be able to justify blame on someone else (e.g. the Chinese). As an example, the article below is horrendous and further justifies not cooperating.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/rep-mccaul-wuhan-lab-report-china-covid-republicans
 (https://www.foxnews.com/media/rep-mccaul-wuhan-lab-report-china-covid-republicans)

The supposed bombshell report of the "greatest cover-up in human history" is based on public work orders to do maintenance and construction at the research facilities. That is something extremely routine, but is being exploited as proof of a cover-up. It's absurd and highlights the lack of interest of these parties in actually understanding what happened. They have zero interest in facts, 100% interest in spin/blame.

If we want to do investigations on origins. Let's look at how we failed to handle nearly every aspect of this from day 1 once we knew of the virus. Let's examine our failures to get people to buy in on vaccination, which is leading to this likely being endemic.

We could have stamped this out entirely in the US. We had the vaccines, and production capacity. We just lacked buy-in for both historical mistreatment of populations, and political drives to deliberately damage the US so an entity can do better in mid-terms/next presidential election.

Those investigations can get answers, much needed answers that can prevent massive issues like this in the future. But they don't want to do that investigation, because the blame is on them.

Remember the old mantra, when you point a finger at someone, there are 3-pointing right back at you.

Exactly.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on August 04, 2021, 10:24:36 AM

Quote from: forgetful on August 04, 2021, 10:21:22 AM

This is the problem. At this point there is a near zero chance we actually find the origin. It will be all speculation. And there is also zero reason for the Chinese to cooperate, they are well aware that political entities in the US have zero interest in determining facts, they want to be able to justify blame on someone else (e.g. the Chinese). As an example, the article below is horrendous and further justifies not cooperating.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/rep-mccaul-wuhan-lab-report-china-covid-republicans
 (https://www.foxnews.com/media/rep-mccaul-wuhan-lab-report-china-covid-republicans)

The supposed bombshell report of the "greatest cover-up in human history" is based on public work orders to do maintenance and construction at the research facilities. That is something extremely routine, but is being exploited as proof of a cover-up. It's absurd and highlights the lack of interest of these parties in actually understanding what happened. They have zero interest in facts, 100% interest in spin/blame.

If we want to do investigations on origins. Let's look at how we failed to handle nearly every aspect of this from day 1 once we knew of the virus. Let's examine our failures to get people to buy in on vaccination, which is leading to this likely being endemic.

We could have stamped this out entirely in the US. We had the vaccines, and production capacity. We just lacked buy-in for both historical mistreatment of populations, and political drives to deliberately damage the US so an entity can do better in mid-terms/next presidential election.

Those investigations can get answers, much needed answers that can prevent massive issues like this in the future. But they don't want to do that investigation, because the blame is on them.

Remember the old mantra, when you point a finger at someone, there are 3-pointing right back at you.

This is all very accurate.  The findings wouldn’t be good for people of all political stripes, so I’m not holding my breath.  It’ll be simpler to find one culprit to blame it “all” on.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 04, 2021, 10:26:16 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on August 04, 2021, 10:06:28 AM

Fixed that for you.

Haha, that’s fair!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 04, 2021, 11:28:46 AM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on August 04, 2021, 10:24:36 AM

This is all very accurate.  The findings wouldn’t be good for people of all political stripes, so I’m not holding my breath.  It’ll be simpler to find one culprit to blame it “all” on.

Hillary.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on August 04, 2021, 11:34:49 AM

I should have put this in the Doom thread:

https://www.newsweek.com/2021/08/13/doomsday-covid-variant-worse-delta-lambda-may-coming-scientists-say-1615874.html

"..Lambda has torn through Peru and shows signs of having unusual success in infecting fully vaccinated people, according to one early study."

Lambda has been detected in Texas, btw.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 04, 2021, 11:36:03 AM

From the NYT:

Younger, sicker, quicker -- kind of an Olympics of disease.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/03/health/covid-young-adults-sicker.html?campaign_id=4&emc=edit_dk_20210804&instance_id=37046&nl=dealbook&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=65295&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

Recently, a 28-year-old patient died of Covid-19 at CoxHealth Medical Center in Springfield, Mo. Last week, a 21-year-old college student was admitted to intensive care.

Many of the patients with Covid-19 now arriving at the hospital are not just unvaccinated — they are much younger than 50, a stark departure from the frail, older patients seen when the pandemic first surged last year.

In Baton Rouge, La., young adults with none of the usual risk factors for severe forms of the disease — such as obesity or diabetes — are also arriving in E.R.s, desperately ill. It isn’t clear why they are so sick.

Physicians working in Covid hot spots across the nation say that the patients in their hospitals are not like the patients they saw last year. Almost always unvaccinated, the new arrivals tend to be younger, many in their 20s or 30s. And they seem sicker than younger patients were last year, deteriorating more rapidly.

Doctors have coined a new phrase to describe them: “younger, sicker, quicker.” Many physicians treating them suspect that the Delta variant of the coronavirus, which now accounts for more than 80 percent of new infections nationwide, is playing a role.

Studies done in a handful of other countries suggest that the variant may cause more severe disease, but there is no definitive data showing that the new variant is somehow worse for young adults.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 05, 2021, 06:13:02 AM

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E78vFOqXMAQNM-3?format=png&name=small)

Florida is a sh!t show.

blah, my graph won't work.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on August 05, 2021, 06:48:03 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on August 05, 2021, 06:13:02 AM

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E78vFOqXMAQNM-3?format=png&name=small)

Florida is a sh!t show.

blah, my graph won't work.

More than 20 percent of those currently hospitalized with COVID come from just one state.
Bet you can guess which one.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 05, 2021, 06:52:37 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on August 05, 2021, 06:48:03 AM

More than 20 percent of those currently hospitalized with COVID come from just one state.
Bet you can guess which one.

and 1 of every 2000 Floridians currently has Covid. 

Number of hospitalizations is at a an all time high.  How long until we hear about bed shortages, and equipment shortages again?  I'm guessing before Sunday.

All of this is entirely preventable at this point, but we're America, and we thrive on being a global embarrassment.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on August 05, 2021, 06:56:32 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on August 05, 2021, 06:52:37 AM

and 1 of every 2000 Floridians currently has Covid. 

Number of hospitalizations is at a an all time high.  How long until we hear about bed shortages, and equipment shortages again?  I'm guessing before Sunday.

All of this is entirely preventable at this point, but we're America, and we thrive on being a global embarrassment.

In addition to global embarrassment, we also thrive on ignorance in the name of freedom

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 05, 2021, 07:16:50 AM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on August 05, 2021, 06:56:32 AM

In addition to global embarrassment, we also thrive on ignorance in the name of freedom

Would you suggest implementing a federal nationwide mandate then?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 05, 2021, 07:21:19 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 05, 2021, 07:16:50 AM

Would you suggest implementing a federal nationwide mandate then?

Of vaccination?  Yes.  Just like we did for small pox.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 05, 2021, 07:28:55 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on August 05, 2021, 07:21:19 AM

Of vaccination?  Yes.  Just like we did for small pox.

I’m starting to agree with you.  CDC released numbers yesterday I believe saying less then 30% of African Americans have been fully vaccinated.  Outside of a national mandate I just don’t see getting folks on the fence, off the fence anytime soon. 

You think Biden is waiting for full FDA approval or what’s the hold up.  He’s proven with the eviction moratorium that he couldn’t give two sh*ts about what’s constitutional or not so have to imagine he’s just waiting for full sign off.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 05, 2021, 07:35:13 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 05, 2021, 07:28:55 AM

I’m starting to agree with you.  CDC released numbers yesterday I believe saying less then 30% of African Americans have been fully vaccinated.  Outside of a national mandate I just don’t see getting folks on the fence, off the fence anytime soon. 

You think Biden is waiting for full FDA approval or what’s the hold up.  He’s proven with the eviction moratorium that he couldn’t give two sh*ts about what’s constitutional or not so have to imagine he’s just waiting for full sign off.

38% of Blacks, 49% of Whites.

https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/percent-of-total-population-that-has-received-a-covid-19-vaccine-by-race-ethnicity/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D

I think that Biden is too much of a coward to much of anything, but I'll take his cowardice over the other guys ignorance and malice any day of the week.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 05, 2021, 08:00:40 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on August 05, 2021, 07:35:13 AM

38% of Blacks, 49% of Whites.

https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/percent-of-total-population-that-has-received-a-covid-19-vaccine-by-race-ethnicity/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D

I think that Biden is too much of a coward to much of anything, but I'll take his cowardice over the other guys ignorance and malice any day of the week.

Part of me wonders that because the topic of Covid has become such a political wedge issue and is being used to justify a whole host of unusual legislation that even though they know they have what they need to get this under control they aren’t necessarily ready to let it go yet.

Whether it’s cowardice or ignorance it’s leading to the same results, unnecessary deaths.  Biden said he would shut down the virus and acknowledged we now have the tools to do it, so get it done Uncle Joe!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 05, 2021, 08:11:42 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 05, 2021, 08:00:40 AM

Part of me wonders that because the topic of Covid has become such a political wedge issue and is being used to justify a whole host of unusual legislation that even though they know they have what they need to get this under control they aren’t necessarily ready to let it go yet.

Whether it’s cowardice or ignorance it’s leading to the same results, unnecessary deaths.  Biden said he would shut down the virus and acknowledged we now have the tools to do it, so get it done Uncle Joe!

Viruses don't care about political affiliation.  They're ever evolving organisms that just want to survive.  I don't place my faith in politicians because I don't like to be disappointed. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 05, 2021, 08:18:02 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 05, 2021, 08:00:40 AM

Part of me wonders that because the topic of Covid has become such a political wedge issue and is being used to justify a whole host of unusual legislation that even though they know they have what they need to get this under control they aren’t necessarily ready to let it go yet.

Whether it’s cowardice or ignorance it’s leading to the same results, unnecessary deaths.  Biden said he would shut down the virus and acknowledged we now have the tools to do it, so get it done Uncle Joe!

He's got a full diaper. Let someone change him first, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 05, 2021, 08:23:22 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 05, 2021, 08:18:02 AM

He's got a full diaper. Let someone change him first, hey?

He could borrow some of Trump's depends, or yours if you haven't run out (no pun intended), aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on August 05, 2021, 10:53:56 AM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on August 05, 2021, 06:56:32 AM

In addition to global embarrassment, we also thrive on ignorance in the name of freedom

Use the correct term, Freedumb.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 05, 2021, 11:09:43 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 05, 2021, 08:00:40 AM

Biden said he would shut down the virus and acknowledged we now have the tools to do it, so get it done Uncle Joe!

It would be much better if he simply says the Delta variant will "go away, like a miracle"; if he sends out his son-in-law to declare victory over it; and if he then ignores it for the rest of his term.

I also like how you keep framing everything in the context of Black people being hesitant to get the vaccine. Almost as fun as roQQet and Doc Dribble constantly blaming furners streaming across the border for Florida, Missouri and Arkansas being Covid shyteshows.

When in doubt, blame the "others."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 05, 2021, 11:15:38 AM

Quote from: MU82 on August 05, 2021, 11:09:43 AM

It would be much better if he simply says the Delta variant will "go away, like a miracle"; if he sends out his son-in-law to declare victory over it; and if he then ignores it for the rest of his term.

I also like how you keep framing everything in the context of Black people being hesitant to get the vaccine. Almost as fun as roQQet and Doc Dribble constantly blaming furners streaming across the border for Florida, Missouri and Arkansas being Covid shyteshows.

When in doubt, blame the "others."

Wowzers!!!  Making a lot of assumptions their MU82 when you suggest I’m blaming the “others”.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 05, 2021, 12:09:12 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 05, 2021, 11:15:38 AM

Wowzers!!!  Making a lot of assumptions their MU82 when you suggest I’m blaming the “others”.

Well, you've been making a lot of assumptions when, every time you respond to anything related to vaccine hesitancy, you bring up Black people.

Each of us in this conversation has acknowledged that a lot of Black people are hesitant to get the vaccine because of horrific government programs from past decades.

But Black people aren't the reason Florida is Delta Central right now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 05, 2021, 07:21:24 PM

I said many times that covid is not going away. Not if everyone in the world is vaccinated, not if every Black or Latino or illegal crossing the border is immunized. The plan should be to get your vaccine and carry on. Everything else from masks to mandates is nothing more than political grandstanding.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 05, 2021, 07:25:49 PM

Quote from: MU82 on August 05, 2021, 11:09:43 AM

It would be much better if he simply says the Delta variant will "go away, like a miracle"; if he sends out his son-in-law to declare victory over it; and if he then ignores it for the rest of his term.

I also like how you keep framing everything in the context of Black people being hesitant to get the vaccine. Almost as fun as roQQet and Doc Dribble constantly blaming furners streaming across the border for Florida, Missouri and Arkansas being Covid shyteshows.

When in doubt, blame the "others."

So, you deny unvaccinated, covid positive are crossing the Mexican border?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 05, 2021, 07:27:59 PM

Quote from: MU82 on August 05, 2021, 12:09:12 PM

Well, you've been making a lot of assumptions when, every time you respond to anything related to vaccine hesitancy, you bring up Black people.

Each of us in this conversation has acknowledged that a lot of Black people are hesitant to get the vaccine because of horrific government programs from past decades.

But Black people aren't the reason Florida is Delta Central right now.

Oh please, the cop out that Blacks in 2021 are guinea pigs is a lame ass excuse. No one is using any group in this chit storm fiasco.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 06, 2021, 12:04:00 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 05, 2021, 07:21:24 PM

I said many times that covid is not going away. Not if everyone in the world is vaccinated, not if every Black or Latino or illegal crossing the border is immunized.

Cool. Then might as well not even try. Might as well have all your heroes in the political arena continually undermine the process.

Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 05, 2021, 07:25:49 PM

So, you deny unvaccinated, covid positive are crossing the Mexican border?

I don't deny it at all. I don't know. I haven't seen proof either way. It is logical to assume that many people crossing the border have the virus, yes, and I wish that weren't the case.

What I deny is that those evil furners are responsible for the Delta variant spikes in Florida, Missouri, Arkansas and other red states being overrun by the virus now because their politicians spent more than a year pretending it didn't exist.

 

Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 05, 2021, 07:27:59 PM

Oh please, the cop out that Blacks in 2021 are guinea pigs is a lame ass excuse. No one is using any group in this chit storm fiasco.

Oh please, can't you say this using ebonics as you often do? Come on! It's so cute! Black people love it when old white guys do that almost as much as they love it when old white guys tell them how they should feel about their ancestors having been used as guinea pigs.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on August 06, 2021, 12:31:09 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 05, 2021, 07:25:49 PM

So, you deny unvaccinated, covid positive are crossing the Mexican border?

Is there evidence that folks crossing the border has been tested and positive?

If so, how do we know they're unvaccinated?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 06, 2021, 05:42:52 AM

We know nothin' 'cuz numb nuts sweeps it all away, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 06, 2021, 07:36:36 AM

Quote from: MU82 on August 06, 2021, 12:04:00 AM

I don't deny it at all. I don't know. I haven't seen proof either way. It is logical to assume that many people crossing the border have the virus, yes, and I wish that weren't the case.

What I deny is that those evil furners are responsible for the Delta variant spikes in Florida, Missouri, Arkansas and other red states being overrun by the virus now because their politicians spent more than a year pretending it didn't exist.

Right.  At some point people have to stop blaming brown people who speak a different language for the ridiculous policy decisions that are now severely harming your state's populace.

They're playing a card right out of the Spanish Flu pandemic, which blamed immigrants for the spread of the disease as well.  Even though it was largely false.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2862341/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on August 06, 2021, 08:12:39 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 06, 2021, 07:36:36 AM

Right.  At some point people have to stop blaming brown people who speak a different language for the ridiculous policy decisions that are now severely harming your state's populace.

They're playing a card right out of the Spanish Flu pandemic, which blamed immigrants for the spread of the disease as well.  Even though it was largely false.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2862341/

Agreed. It’s just a way to pass blame off themselves. “I’m just one person not getting the vaccine, look how many Biden is letting in.” I’m sure it’s not helping, but we have bigger issues in my opinion.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on August 06, 2021, 09:14:46 AM

Edit: nm

this point was already made and I don't want to belabor it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 06, 2021, 09:19:24 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on August 06, 2021, 12:31:09 AM

Is there evidence that folks crossing the border has been tested and positive?

If so, how do we know they're unvaccinated?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.yahoo.com/amphtml/more-1-500-coronavirus-positive-205500567.html

Evidence that 10s of thousands have crossed and been released into general population after testing positive.

This article talks about 1500 in one week in one town at the border.  It’s an absolute mess down there right now. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 06, 2021, 09:25:07 AM

Quote from: cheebs09 on August 06, 2021, 08:12:39 AM

Agreed. It’s just a way to pass blame off themselves. “I’m just one person not getting the vaccine, look how many Biden is letting in.” I’m sure it’s not helping, but we have bigger issues in my opinion.

We have a lot of issues.   The frustration I think a lot of people feel on the right is the attention and criticism from this administration and the media in general is focused only on the problems surrounding the right.  It just further divides and politicizes the pandemic. 

To accuse the right of pointing fingers at migrants as a way of shifting blame off their own leadership issues is no different then the left pointing their fingers at leaders on the right while ignoring the issues and problems the right are pointing at.  If that makes sense.

Like so many other things it’s just two parties yelling past each other. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 06, 2021, 09:27:03 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 06, 2021, 09:25:07 AM

To accuse the right of pointing fingers at migrants as a way of shifting blame off their own leadership issues is no different then the left pointing their fingers at leaders on the right while ignoring the issues and problems the right are pointing at.  If that makes sense.

Well, do you really want to compare whose COVID policies have been more harmful to the country and its citizens?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 06, 2021, 09:36:03 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 06, 2021, 09:27:03 AM

Well, do you really want to compare whose COVID policies have been more harmful to the country and its citizens?

Sure.  What metric would you like to use?

Death rate per 1 million?  Since at the end of the day that’s what all these protocols are aiming to do right?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on August 06, 2021, 09:38:23 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 06, 2021, 09:25:07 AM

We have a lot of issues.   The frustration I think a lot of people feel on the right is the attention and criticism from this administration and the media in general is focused only on the problems surrounding the right.  It just further divides and politicizes the pandemic. 

To accuse the right of pointing fingers at migrants as a way of shifting blame off their own leadership issues is no different then the left pointing their fingers at leaders on the right while ignoring the issues and problems the right are pointing at.  If that makes sense.

Like so many other things it’s just two parties yelling past each other.

If the GOP and organizations like Foxnews OANN actively campaigned for vaccination, instead of treating it like a giant government conspiracy. We'd have herd immunity right now, and any migrants who tested positive wouldn't be a problem.

In hot spots like Louisiana, Texas, and Florida, the virus isn't being spread through immigrant communities. So that does not appear to be the problem.

Want a solution. Simple, provide vaccines to every migrant group coming to the border.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 06, 2021, 09:40:29 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 06, 2021, 09:36:03 AM

Sure.  What metric would you like to use?

Death rate per 1 million?  Since at the end of the day that’s what all these protocols are aiming to do right?

No I am not talking about a state-by-state basis.  I am talking about COVID laws and policies meant to keep people safe until they got vaccinated, then the promotion of vaccines since.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 06, 2021, 09:41:36 AM

Quote from: forgetful on August 06, 2021, 09:38:23 AM

If the GOP and organizations like Foxnews OANN actively campaigned for vaccination, instead of treating it like a giant government conspiracy. We'd have herd immunity right now, and any migrants who tested positive wouldn't be a problem.

In hot spots like Louisiana, Texas, and Florida, the virus isn't being spread through immigrant communities. So that does not appear to be the problem.

Want a solution. Simple, provide vaccines to every migrant group coming to the border.

Love that solution!!  Why aren’t we doing that?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 06, 2021, 09:44:35 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 06, 2021, 09:40:29 AM

No I am not talking about a state-by-state basis.  I am talking about COVID laws and policies meant to keep people safe until they got vaccinated, then the promotion of vaccines since.

To much objectivity and personal preference to that comparison.  I prefer irrefutable data.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on August 06, 2021, 09:47:19 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 06, 2021, 09:44:35 AM

To much objectivity and personal preference to that comparison.  I prefer irrefutable data.

Based on your post history, this is not true.

That was thrown underhand, I feel guilty for taking a swing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 06, 2021, 09:47:56 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 06, 2021, 09:44:35 AM

To much objectivity and personal preference to that comparison.

In other words, it pains you to use your brain and it won't make you look good. 

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 06, 2021, 09:44:35 AM

I prefer irrefutable data.

Without understanding the differences between geographic locations and what policies people in locations control.

You've been a joke in this topic from the beginning.  You continue to show your ass now. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 06, 2021, 09:48:32 AM

Quote from: Skatastrophy on August 06, 2021, 09:47:19 AM

Based on your post history, this is not true.

That was thrown underhand, I feel guilty for taking a swing.

What’s not true?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 06, 2021, 09:48:41 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 06, 2021, 05:42:52 AM

We know nothin' 'cuz numb nuts sweeps it all away, hey?

Wow ... what a mean thing to say about Gov. DeSantis, who ranks behind only Gov. Douchie in NY for covering up the severity of the virus in his state.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 06, 2021, 09:50:42 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 06, 2021, 09:47:56 AM

You've been a joke in this topic from the beginning.  You continue to show your ass now.

Troll is getting what he wants. Stop feeding him.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 06, 2021, 09:52:59 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 06, 2021, 09:47:56 AM

In other words, it pains you to use your brain and it won't make you look good. 


Without understanding the differences between geographic locations and what policies people in locations control.

You've been a joke in this topic from the beginning.  You continue to show your ass now.

No, I just know my brain and policy preference is different then yours so what you find to be good policy I might not and vice versa.

Just like sports, there’s different playbooks and schemes to win or lose a game.  With Covid elected officials had the impossible task of making decisions (often times educated guesses) as to how to keep their citizens as safe as possible. 

Little early on a Friday to be calling people an ass imo.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 06, 2021, 09:55:03 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 06, 2021, 09:52:59 AM

Just like sports, there’s different playbooks and schemes to win or lose a game.  With Covid elected officials had the impossible task of making decisions (often times educated guesses) as to how to keep their citizens as safe as possible. 

This might be literally the dumbest thing you have said on this board.  The playbook was obvious. 

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 06, 2021, 09:52:59 AM

Little early on a Friday to be calling people an ass imo.

Oh hell no.  I would have done it at 12:01 AM had I been awake.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on August 06, 2021, 09:56:06 AM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning#:~:text=Sealioning%20(also%20spelled%20sea%2Dlioning,invitations%20to%20engage%20in%20debate%22.

Sealioning (also spelled sea-lioning and sea lioning) is a type of trolling or harassment that consists of pursuing people with persistent requests for evidence or repeated questions, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity.[1][2][3][4] It may take the form of "incessant, bad-faith invitations to engage in debate"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 06, 2021, 09:56:31 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 06, 2021, 09:55:03 AM

Oh hell no.  I would have done it at 12:01 AM had I been awake.

Haha, to each their own I suppose.  I can respect that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on August 06, 2021, 09:57:52 AM

This dude has been sealioning from the jump, has only ever been sealioning, and has never posted anything other than sealioning. Joke's on me I guess for even bothering this much to engage.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 06, 2021, 09:59:09 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 06, 2021, 09:50:42 AM

Troll is getting what he wants. Stop feeding him.

You keep saying that and when I ask what I’m trolling about you refuse to answer.

Fluffy asked if I wanted to do a comparison.  I said sure but now we are having a hard time figuring out what would be a fair comparison.  Using data or personal policy preference?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on August 06, 2021, 10:01:12 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 06, 2021, 09:59:09 AM

You keep saying that and when I ask what I’m trolling about you refuse to answer.

Fluffy asked if I wanted to do a comparison.  I said sure but now we are having a hard time figuring out what would be a fair comparison.  Using data or personal policy preference?

Hey look, more sealioning!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 06, 2021, 10:04:50 AM

Quote from: jficke13 on August 06, 2021, 09:57:52 AM

This dude has been sealioning from the jump, has only ever been sealioning, and has never posted anything other than sealioning. Joke's on me I guess for even bothering this much to engage.

If you think I’m sealioning by not going along  with the group think tendencies of this board that’s fine.  I’ve agreed at times with folks on here I’d never thought I’d align with on something, I’ve admitted I’ve been wrong other times, I criticized Republican officials when i felt they were out of bounce, and aside from a few occasions have tried to keep my interactions respectful. 

If that’s sealioning, then a 🦭 I am.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on August 06, 2021, 10:09:02 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 06, 2021, 09:41:36 AM

Love that solution!!  Why aren’t we doing that?

Extremely simple. Politics. The moment it is done, the entire GOP and Trumper body will be screaming about how the administration is pandering to illegal immigrants and giving away free vaccines to illegal immigrants, thereby supporting their entry into the US.

But you know this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 06, 2021, 10:15:08 AM

Quote from: forgetful on August 06, 2021, 10:09:02 AM

Extremely simple. Politics. The moment it is done, the entire GOP and Trumper body will be screaming about how the administration is pandering to illegal immigrants and giving away free vaccines to illegal immigrants, thereby supporting their entry into the US.

But you know this.

When has partisan backlash ever stopped either party from doing anything.  Not suggesting it wouldn’t be tough or controversial but IMO not a legitimate excuse for no action.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 06, 2021, 10:22:11 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 06, 2021, 09:59:09 AM

You keep saying that and when I ask what I’m trolling about you refuse to answer.

Fluffy asked if I wanted to do a comparison.  I said sure but now we are having a hard time figuring out what would be a fair comparison.  Using data or personal policy preference?

(https://merriam-webster.com/assets/mw/images/article/art-wap-landing-mp-lg/sea%20lion%20barking-7966-2217339b7d8f853ac2d732c14bfdbef1@1x.jpg)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on August 06, 2021, 11:37:04 AM

Catholic Charities in Texas has been helping vaccinate migrants. And some Fox commentators claimed not to know they have been helping migrants for decades, and are only doing it for the money….
People from Central and South America are flying into Florida all the time to get the vaccine. Asians are flying into the West Coast. We’re apparently okay with giving it to  rich people, but politically, openly doing it for the poor would be problematic….

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on August 06, 2021, 12:48:09 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on August 06, 2021, 11:37:04 AM

Catholic Charities in Texas has been helping vaccinate migrants. And some Fox commentators claimed not to know they have been helping migrants for decades, and are only doing it for the money….
People from Central and South America are flying into Florida all the time to get the vaccine. Asians are flying into the West Coast. We’re apparently okay with giving it to  rich people, but politically, openly doing it for the poor would be problematic….

There is no cost prohibitive issue for poor Americans and getting vaccinated, there are myriad ways to do so.

There is a big difference between vaccinating illegal immigrants and vaccinating poor citizens.  Don't conflate those issues.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 06, 2021, 12:58:49 PM

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/supply-chain/florida-hospitals-struggling-to-get-oxygen.html

"Florida hospitals are struggling to get enough oxygen to treat their COVID-19 patients as virus cases surge because of the delta variant, Bloomberg reported Aug. 4.

Restrictions on how long truck drivers can be on the road went back into effect when the state's public health emergency rules were lifted, and there is a shortage of qualified drivers to transport oxygen to hospitals, according to Bloomberg."


I mean...DeSantis could reinstitute the public emergency right?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 06, 2021, 05:18:28 PM

In this country we prioritize our opinions being validated (getting the win!) over reality.

In other words, too many stupid people overestimate their intelligence and the value of their opinion.  And social media has cranked this up to 11.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on August 06, 2021, 05:34:03 PM

Okay I wasn’t clear. No one is complaining about rich people from South and Central America and Asia  flying in to get vaccinated in our clinics, for free at our expense. But we would raise holy hell if we openly gave it to the poor migrants, complaining that we shouldn’t be vaccinating them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 06, 2021, 05:42:23 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 06, 2021, 12:58:49 PM

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/supply-chain/florida-hospitals-struggling-to-get-oxygen.html

"Florida hospitals are struggling to get enough oxygen to treat their COVID-19 patients as virus cases surge because of the delta variant, Bloomberg reported Aug. 4.

Restrictions on how long truck drivers can be on the road went back into effect when the state's public health emergency rules were lifted, and there is a shortage of qualified drivers to transport oxygen to hospitals, according to Bloomberg."


I mean...DeSantis could reinstitute the public emergency right?

Dammit, I predicted Sunday.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 06, 2021, 05:59:04 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 06, 2021, 12:58:49 PM

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/supply-chain/florida-hospitals-struggling-to-get-oxygen.html

"Florida hospitals are struggling to get enough oxygen to treat their COVID-19 patients as virus cases surge because of the delta variant, Bloomberg reported Aug. 4.

Restrictions on how long truck drivers can be on the road went back into effect when the state's public health emergency rules were lifted, and there is a shortage of qualified drivers to transport oxygen to hospitals, according to Bloomberg."


I mean...DeSantis could reinstitute the public emergency right?

Sad. And this from the Washington Post:

Hospitals around Orlando and Jacksonville have been reporting some of the worst conditions in the state, including at least 10 that say they’ve hit all-time highs in admissions.

The University of Florida’s Jacksonville hospitals are among those who have crossed that point with 233 covid-19 patients admitted as of Thursday — compared to the 125 January peak — and intensive care unit beds exhausted. Officials have been scrambling to add ICU beds and enough nurses to staff them, while looking at models showing a patient admissions spike over the next two weeks.

“It’s frightening and it’s frustrating. When we had the waves we had before, we thought we were tight and we thought we were pushed pretty hard,” said David Caro, an emergency physician at the hospital. “Now getting into this situation, we have to bring all those resources we brought to bear before and are trying to come up with new ways to make care proceed forward. It’s scary.”

Hospitals in South Florida, which isn’t as hard hit, are still struggling. Boca Raton Regional Hospital treated about 95 covid patients on Wednesday, a significant jump from five hospitalized in mid-June and its all-time peak of 78 patients.

“We are admitting patients way faster than we can discharge them from the hospital,” said Samer Fahmy, the hospital’s chief medical officer. “We anticipated that we may get a bit of a surge, but we did not anticipate that it would be this rapid and to this degree. This is worse than we expected.”

Hospitals are also seeing a small but growing number of pediatric patients as a new school year looms and the governor feuds with school boards over mask mandates.

Joe DiMaggio Children’s Hospital in Broward County treated 12 covid inpatients earlier this week, the most to date, said Lussette Dantinor, director of emergency services. Administrators are working to expand space if hospitalizations rise.

Whether to mandate masks for children is “a tough debate,” Dantinor said. But she noted that for her own 9-year-old child, “I feel right now — due to what we’re seeing, I think that would be best.”

The school board in Broward County, where her hospital is located, approved a student mask mandate on July 28 — two days before DeSantis signed an order that would withhold funding from schools that make face coverings compulsory.

The school system initially seemed poised to back down, but on Wednesday, with a handful of Florida school systems defying DeSantis’s order, a spokesperson said Broward district officials were “awaiting further guidance before rendering a decision on the mask mandate.”

Shannon Beckham, a Jacksonville Beach parent, credited the Duval County school board for taking on DeSantis’s order by approving a mask mandate that allows parents to opt their children out.

“I feel for them, because it’s not an easy decision to make, and they’ll probably get threats. And I think there’s also a fear of our governor.” Beckham said. “It’s not an easy choice for them, but I think you should always err on the side of the choice that’s not going to kill people.”

Outside of schools, city and county officials are complaining they cannot take aggressive measures to prevent the spread of the virus because of moves by DeSantis and the Republican-controlled state legislature to strip them of emergency public health powers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 06, 2021, 06:27:12 PM

Quote from: MU82 on August 06, 2021, 09:48:41 AM

Wow ... what a mean thing to say about Gov. DeSantis, who ranks behind only Gov. Douchie in NY for covering up the severity of the virus in his state.

Yeah butt, DeSantis doesn't pinch lady's asses, nor does he have an Emmy, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on August 06, 2021, 07:04:49 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 06, 2021, 06:27:12 PM

Yeah butt, DeSantis doesn't pinch lady's asses, nor does he have an Emmy, hey?

Not qualified for the GOP presidency.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 06, 2021, 07:07:20 PM

#frontrunner, aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 06, 2021, 07:59:40 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 06, 2021, 06:27:12 PM

Yeah butt, DeSantis doesn't pinch lady's asses, nor does he have an Emmy, hey?

Nah … your new hero just contributes to the illnesses and deaths of Floridians, nu?

Cuomo should resign or be impeached, just as the previous occupant of the White House should have. See how easy it is to say that, nu?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 06, 2021, 08:22:18 PM

Covid will not be eradicated, whether one human being or the entire world is vaccinated. Everyone will have to learn to live and co-exist with it continually amongst us. Becomes a lot simpler to do so when politics are taken out of the equation, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 06, 2021, 09:12:36 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 06, 2021, 08:22:18 PM

Covid will not be eradicated, whether one human being or the entire world is vaccinated. Everyone will have to learn to live and co-exist with it continually amongst us. Becomes a lot simpler to do so when politics are taken out of the equation, hey?

Beautiful. As a starter, please tell all of your political heroes to stop using big government to prevent and/or punish common-sense plans that will enable businesses to protect their employees and customers. Thanks!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on August 06, 2021, 11:38:56 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on August 06, 2021, 05:34:03 PM

Okay I wasn’t clear. No one is complaining about rich people from South and Central America and Asia  flying in to get vaccinated in our clinics, for free at our expense. But we would raise holy hell if we openly gave it to the poor migrants, complaining that we shouldn’t be vaccinating them.

Again, different story.  I'm not trying to get into an immigration debate, but there is a big difference between "rich" tourists coming in to the US via legal, regulated channels and being vaccinated while here and undocumented/illegal immigrants entering who may or may not be COVID positive, and the difference is not simply "rich vs poor".  And its not like those migrants are coming with the express intention of being vaccinated.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on August 07, 2021, 09:08:02 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 06, 2021, 07:07:20 PM

#frontrunner, aina?

Governor who?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 07, 2021, 09:45:39 AM

The Charlotte suburb where I live has a big festival every Labor Day weekend. The town just posted this on its site:

In a unanimous Board of Directors vote, the 2021 festival scheduled for September 3-6, 2021, will be canceled for the second year in a row. The safety, health, and wellness of festival partners and attendees remain a priority for this family-friendly event.

I'm disappointed, because the festival raises a lot of money for charity and it is always a fun event, but I understand the decision.

Cases, hospitalizations and deaths due to covid have accelerated significantly in NC, our county and the Charlotte area over the last 2-3 months.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 07, 2021, 10:00:37 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on August 07, 2021, 09:08:02 AM

Governor who?

What else has Biden forgot?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on August 07, 2021, 01:56:24 PM

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2021/08/06/texas-emergency-room-forced-temporarily-close-critical-covid-surge/
 (https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2021/08/06/texas-emergency-room-forced-temporarily-close-critical-covid-surge/)

Saw this shared by a friend. ER's closing because of no beds. One hospital is closing its ER until the end of August as it can't keep up with COVID cases.

Totally normal. Not a problem at all. Yet, as I understand it, the TX governor has forbid any mask mandates.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on August 07, 2021, 02:03:02 PM

Quote from: forgetful on August 07, 2021, 01:56:24 PM

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2021/08/06/texas-emergency-room-forced-temporarily-close-critical-covid-surge/
 (https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2021/08/06/texas-emergency-room-forced-temporarily-close-critical-covid-surge/)

Saw this shared by a friend. ER's closing because of no beds. One hospital is closing its ER until the end of August as it can't keep up with COVID cases.

Totally normal. Not a problem at all. Yet, as I understand it, the TX governor has forbid any mask mandates.

My first thought was, “ugh, we are back to last year.” But then I remembered we actually have the tools to stop this thing but people aren’t using it. So frustrating.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: naginiF on August 07, 2021, 07:37:11 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 06, 2021, 08:22:18 PM

Covid will not be eradicated, whether one human being or the entire world is vaccinated. Everyone will have to learn to live and co-exist with it continually amongst us. Becomes a lot simpler to do so when politics are taken out of the equation, hey?

There is no amount of death and/or suffering sufficient to change certain 'values'. Pandemic? need to live with it. Gun violence? can't change anything so why try. Refugees? F them. Immigrants? Eeewwwww, they bring a disease that we're already the worst in the world in handling. Minimum wage/poor? Need to work harder.

As long as others are suffering or dying we should just learn to live with it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on August 07, 2021, 09:33:23 PM

Quote from: naginiF on August 07, 2021, 07:37:11 PM

There is no amount of death and/or suffering sufficient to change certain 'values'. Pandemic? need to live with it. Gun violence? can't change anything so why try. Refugees? F them. Immigrants? Eeewwwww, they bring a disease that we're already the worst in the world in handling. Minimum wage/poor? Need to work harder.

As long as others are suffering or dying we should just learn to live with it.

Nobody needs to be chanting USA USA about the pandemic, but can we stop with this.  Per capita, the US severe numbers are behind places like the UK, Belgium, Italy, and basically in line with places like France, Switzerland, Spain and others.

But exaggeration aside, he's not totally wrong, COVID isn't gonna get eradicated even if moron anti-vaxxers didn't exist

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on August 07, 2021, 09:47:21 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on August 07, 2021, 09:33:23 PM

Nobody needs to be chanting USA USA about the pandemic, but can we stop with this.  Per capita, the US severe numbers are behind places like the UK, Belgium, Italy, and basically in line with places like France, Switzerland, Spain and others.

But exaggeration aside, he's not totally wrong, COVID isn't gonna get eradicated even if moron anti-vaxxers didn't exist

We could have eradicated it in the US.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on August 08, 2021, 05:36:56 AM

Quote from: forgetful on August 07, 2021, 09:47:21 PM

We could have eradicated it in the US.

china could have and still could be more help.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on August 08, 2021, 08:30:21 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on August 07, 2021, 09:33:23 PM

But exaggeration aside, he's not totally wrong, COVID isn't gonna get eradicated even if moron anti-vaxxers didn't exist

What are you basing this upon?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 08, 2021, 08:52:12 AM

We're not gonna "eradicate" measels, mumps, hepatitis, etc, but we as a society come up with common-sense solutions and enforce mandates to at least make outbreaks very rare.

It's not the least bit controversial among 95%+ of U.S. society that we require kids to have standard vaccines to attend school. Thank goodness we didn't try to start that in this day and age, or else we'd be overcome by those serious diseases.

The "eradicate" argument has some similarities to the "we can't stop all gun murders so why bother trying" argument/ I mean, we can't stop all rapes, either, but we try.

Meanwhile ...

US averaging more than 100,000 new COVID cases daily

From the AP:

The U.S. is now averaging 100,000 new COVID-19 infections a day, returning to a milestone last seen during the winter surge in yet another bleak reminder of how quickly the delta variant has spread through the country.

The U.S. was averaging about 11,000 cases a day in late June. Now the number is 107,143.

It took the U.S. about nine months to cross the 100,000 average case number in November before peaking at about 250,000 in early January. Cases bottomed out in June but took about six weeks to go back above 100,000, despite a vaccine that has been given to more than 70% of the adult population.

The seven-day average for daily new deaths also increased, according to data from Johns Hopkins University. It rose over the past two weeks from about 270 deaths per day to nearly 500 a day as of Friday.

The virus is spreading quickly through unvaccinated populations, especially in the South where hospitals have been overrun with patients.

Health officials are fearful that cases will continue to soar if more Americans don’t embrace the vaccine.

The number of Americans hospitalized with the virus has also skyrocketed and it has gotten so bad that many hospitals are scrambling to find beds for patients in far-off locations.

Houston officials say the latest wave of COVID-19 cases has forced the local health care system to transfer some patients out of the city to get medical care, including one who had to be taken to North Dakota.

Dr. David Persse, who is health authority for the Houston Health Department and EMS medical director, said some ambulances were waiting hours to offload patients at Houston area hospitals because no beds were available.

“The health care system right now is nearly at a breaking point … For the next three weeks or so, I see no relief on what’s happening in emergency departments,” Persse said Thursday.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 08, 2021, 09:41:06 AM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on August 08, 2021, 05:36:56 AM

china could have and still could be more help.

How, exactly?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on August 08, 2021, 10:57:47 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on August 08, 2021, 08:30:21 AM

What are you basing this upon?

Because eradication of a virus is extremely difficult.  Especially one that is as infectious, and can present itself rather benignly at times, as COVID.  Even Polio isn't actually eradicated.

Now if you mean controlled or more or less minimized? Of course.  But the idea of wiping COVID off the map and getting to a zero caseload nationally is unrealistic IMO

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 08, 2021, 11:34:17 AM

Fun fact - polio has a really high asymptotic rate and is about as contagious as covid (depending on the estimate of delta maybe a little less so). 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 08, 2021, 12:25:33 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 08, 2021, 11:34:17 AM

Fun fact - polio has a really high asymptotic rate and is about as contagious as covid (depending on the estimate of delta maybe a little less so).

Thank goodness vaccine mandates all but eradicated it in the U.S.

And thank goodness we weren't faced with a situation that necessitated mandate polio vaccinations now. We'd have a lot more crippled kids because ... freedom!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on August 08, 2021, 12:39:44 PM

I'm not going to vaccinate my kid against polio because people who have been vaccinated against polio are mean.   I'll show them.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 08, 2021, 12:50:54 PM

Eye-opening, sad op-ed from a Houston pediatrician who has treated many children with COVID-19:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/08/04/pediatrician-covid-children-delta/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F345ab0c%2F610ffc059d2fda2f47ea0b1f%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F47%2F72%2F610ffc059d2fda2f47ea0b1f

Throughout the pandemic, I have cared for kids admitted with covid-19 to the children’s hospital in Houston where I am a pediatrician. These children have included newborns with fevers who require a sepsis evaluation, school-age kids whose bodies are ravaged with inflammation associated with covid-19 in children, and tweens and adolescents with covid pneumonia who need oxygen and other respiratory support. I’ve cared for children whose entire families have been devastated by covid — sometimes the child was sick enough to be admitted but had no parent at their bedside because the parents were critically ill at the adult hospital down the street or, worse, had recently died of covid.

All the while, as both a doctor and mother, I’ve wrestled with a certain dissonance: There is this popular notion that covid doesn’t affect children — and my public health and epidemiologic training reminds me that on a population level, it’s true. The majority of children who contract covid-19 will be asymptomatic or have mild disease. But I contrast this with the reality of being a clinician at the bedside of children critically ill from covid and covid-related illnesses. These two perspectives battle in my brain as I make risk assessments for my own school-age child. One thing that terrifies me as a parent is that we can’t predict why some children get so incredibly sick from covid while others have mild disease; we don’t know why some go on to have lingering debilitation and symptoms for months, and others make quick recoveries.

What I do know is that in this moment, as the highly contagious delta variant becomes the predominant strain circulating and we enter another covid surge, I am more worried for children than I have ever been.

First and foremost, this is because the high transmissibility of the delta variant will translate into a greater number of children being exposed than before, which will lead to a greater number of children infected. Even if the delta variant is no more virulent in children than the original virus was, the sheer numbers will translate into more children being admitted to the hospital with covid and covid-related illnesses. As school reopenings coincide with the growth of the delta variant, I worry we will see large outbreaks in school settings that we didn’t see with less-contagious versions of the virus.

I wonder, if more people saw what I see at patients’ bedsides, would they do more to protect children?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 09, 2021, 05:52:11 PM

https://twitter.com/jesus_jimz/status/1424857523866193930

Quote

Breaking: Gov. Greg Abbott announces Texas will be seeking out-of-state health care personnel to help with the latest surge, and he is asking hospitals to voluntarily postpone elective medical procedures.

Who could have predicted this entirely foreseeable (and preventable) calamity?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on August 09, 2021, 05:53:16 PM

Anyone with a brain who follows science.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on August 09, 2021, 06:50:23 PM

More than open travel, more than full stadiums, more than the end of mask mandates...

...I can't WAIT for "follow the science" and "wear a mask!" as everyday phrases to be historical anecdotes like "Tiger Blood" and "Rock the Vote".  Even if I don't disagree with the sentiment, their omnipresence in social media bios and shrieks from truly hysterical people are exhausting.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on August 09, 2021, 06:54:23 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on August 09, 2021, 05:52:11 PM

https://twitter.com/jesus_jimz/status/1424857523866193930

Who could have predicted this entirely foreseeable (and preventable) calamity?

Abbott: Begs rest of nation to send healthcare workers to bail them out of a self created medical emergency.

Texas Medical Care facilities: Our children's hospitals are running out of beds because of COVID.

Also Abbott: Signs executive order banning schools from instituting mask mandates.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on August 09, 2021, 06:59:55 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on August 09, 2021, 06:50:23 PM

More than open travel, more than full stadiums, more than the end of mask mandates...

...I can't WAIT for "follow the science" and "wear a mask!" as everyday phrases to be historical anecdotes like "Tiger Blood" and "Rock the Vote".  Even if I don't disagree with the sentiment, their omnipresence in social media bios and shrieks from truly hysterical people are exhausting.

Never stop sciencing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on August 09, 2021, 07:03:46 PM

Quote from: forgetful on August 09, 2021, 06:54:23 PM

Abbott: Begs rest of nation to send healthcare workers to bail them out of a self created medical emergency.

Texas Medical Care facilities: Our children's hospitals are running out of beds because of COVID.

Also Abbott: Signs executive order banning schools from instituting mask mandates.

Between this and its inability to keep the lights on, Texas' secession isn't off to a banner start.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 09, 2021, 07:08:49 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on August 09, 2021, 06:50:23 PM

More than open travel, more than full stadiums, more than the end of mask mandates...

...I can't WAIT for "follow the science" and "wear a mask!" as everyday phrases to be historical anecdotes like "Tiger Blood" and "Rock the Vote".  Even if I don't disagree with the sentiment, their omnipresence in social media bios and shrieks from truly hysterical people are exhausting.

You seem to frequently be hysterically outraged by hysterical people.  (This is a joke)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on August 09, 2021, 07:10:41 PM

I remember when folks would state last year's lockdowns were so bad because it prevented those in need from getting access to healthcare or procedures.

Now there are folks in need unable to receive care because infected folks are using all the healthcare resources. Of course, those infected are nearly all unvaccinated. So, why no stink being made? Especially in the light that nearly all hospitalizations would be unnecessary if they just got the vaccine.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on August 09, 2021, 07:27:02 PM

Quote from: forgetful on August 09, 2021, 06:54:23 PM

Abbott: Begs rest of nation to send healthcare workers to bail them out of a self created medical emergency.

Texas Medical Care facilities: Our children's hospitals are running out of beds because of COVID.

Also Abbott: Signs executive order banning schools from instituting mask mandates.

My sister works in healthcare management in Texas and was supposed to fly into Milwaukee for a week later this month but it got cancelled because of the spike.  They’re not allowing employees to travel out of state at the moment

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on August 09, 2021, 07:27:16 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on August 09, 2021, 07:10:41 PM

I remember when folks would state last year's lockdowns were so bad because it prevented those in need from getting access to healthcare or procedures.

Now there are folks in need unable to receive care because infected folks are using all the healthcare resources. Of course, those infected are nearly all unvaccinated. So, why no stink being made? Especially in the light that nearly all hospitalizations would be unnecessary if they just got the vaccine.

Its probably just a matter of coverage.  Its not like its a perfect venn diagram of people who opposed initial lockdowns or worried about their effects and those who are ardently unvaccinated.  There are plenty who are were annoyed then and now and are still vaccinated.  Not to mention there are plenty of people who may not be in favor of government mandated vaccinations in theory yet still are vaccinated themselves and in favor of the vaccine in this case.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 09, 2021, 07:37:47 PM

Abbott's also the governor who re-opened his state far too early from the first wave -- and bragged constantly about doing so -- only to have to shut it back down again.

He makes DeSantis and Cuomo look relatively competent, and that's no easy feat.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on August 09, 2021, 08:02:39 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on August 09, 2021, 07:27:16 PM

Its probably just a matter of coverage.  Its not like its a perfect venn diagram of people who opposed initial lockdowns or worried about their effects and those who are ardently unvaccinated.  There are plenty who are were annoyed then and now and are still vaccinated.  Not to mention there are plenty of people who may not be in favor of government mandated vaccinations in theory yet still are vaccinated themselves and in favor of the vaccine in this case.

Perhaps you are correct and I just haven't seen this talked about.

Like I said, I just remember a lot of criticism of the shutdowns cause it was denying care to folks.

Now, care is being denied by those unvaccinated needing care/hospitalizations.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 10, 2021, 06:05:44 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on August 09, 2021, 08:02:39 PM

Perhaps you are correct and I just haven't seen this talked about.

Like I said, I just remember a lot of criticism of the shutdowns cause it was denying care to folks.

Now, care is being denied by those unvaccinated needing care/hospitalizations.

Pretty ironic that the same group of people who fear mongered about 'death panels' due to Obamacare are the exact people causing 'death panels' in American hospitals currently.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on August 10, 2021, 09:02:54 AM

Quote from: MU82 on August 09, 2021, 07:37:47 PM

Abbott's also the governor who re-opened his state far too early from the first wave -- and bragged constantly about doing so -- only to have to shut it back down again.

He makes DeSantis and Cuomo look relatively competent, and that's no easy feat.

Currently at a conference in Texas for Texans. Last night’s social event? Sing a long karaoke! Covidiots!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 10, 2021, 09:20:36 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on August 10, 2021, 06:05:44 AM

Pretty ironic that the same group of people who fear mongered about 'death panels' due to Obamacare are the exact people causing 'death panels' in American hospitals currently.

Stop with the radical lunacy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 10, 2021, 12:32:18 PM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YdRZJKG7rhw

Stumbled upon this guys YouTube page.  Listened to this video this morning while driving and thought it perfectly summed up where I am at and where my thought process is during my intersections on scoopland.

Interesting listen.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on August 10, 2021, 12:59:20 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 10, 2021, 12:32:18 PM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YdRZJKG7rhw

Stumbled upon this guys YouTube page.  Listened to this video this morning while driving and thought it perfectly summed up where I am at and where my thought process is during my intersections on scoopland.

Interesting listen.

I watched. I hope he is right, but I’m skeptical. He seems to think it will just take care of itself shortly. I think he has more faith in Americans to get vaccinated or take the necessary precautions than we have demonstrated.

He also seems more of a comedian/podcaster now than a practicing physician. Seemed to be oversimplifying the risks in my opinion.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 10, 2021, 01:48:50 PM

Quote from: cheebs09 on August 10, 2021, 12:59:20 PM

I watched. I hope he is right, but I’m skeptical. He seems to think it will just take care of itself shortly. I think he has more faith in Americans to get vaccinated or take the necessary precautions than we have demonstrated.

He also seems more of a comedian/podcaster now than a practicing physician. Seemed to be oversimplifying the risks in my opinion.

I can appreciate that take away and can see why you’d be skeptical.  He acknowledged the US delta wave may not mirror that of India, UK, etc perfectly but if it’s close the “dry tinder” should be burnt up here in next couple weeks and we need to do our best to manage in the meantime.

Time will tell.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on August 10, 2021, 01:58:00 PM

I have listened to several of his podcasts during the pandemic. Politically he's middle-right. Big libertarian bent which he has acknowledged. I have actually sent a couple of hesitant people his interviews with Dr. Offit on the vaccine and it was helpful.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 10, 2021, 02:25:19 PM

Quote from: MUfan12 on August 10, 2021, 01:58:00 PM

I have listened to several of his podcasts during the pandemic. Politically he's middle-right. Big libertarian bent which he has acknowledged. I have actually sent a couple of hesitant people his interviews with Dr. Offit on the vaccine and it was helpful.

Nice!!  Wish I would have came upon him sooner, trying to catch up on some of the episodes now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on August 10, 2021, 09:35:20 PM

Hysterical that India is suddenly a model when their numbers of dead are massively disputed at best.
Working with many people that have family there, the reported numbers are laughable at best.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 10, 2021, 10:02:31 PM

“You look at what’s happening in Texas and Florida, and then you look at the reaction of the governors, whose policies and behaviors are reckless, callous and demagogic.

“You have Gov. Abbott, who has signed a ban on vaccine mandates and mask mandates. You have Ron DeSantis, who is suing the cruise lines to stop private companies from being able to require vaccines.

“Not only are they not serious about confronting the reality of the crisis … they’re actively making it worse.

“They’ve become prisoners of their own memes, they’ve become prisoners of their own culture war here.

“You have Ron DeSantis, who is all-in, in apparently the belief that he can mount a presidential bid by being as reckless as possible here.”

— Conservative commenter Charlie Sykes

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 10, 2021, 10:06:21 PM

Quote from: MU82 on August 10, 2021, 10:02:31 PM

“You look at what’s happening in Texas and Florida, and then you look at the reaction of the governors, whose policies and behaviors are reckless, callous and demagogic.

“You have Gov. Abbott, who has signed a ban on vaccine mandates and mask mandates. You have Ron DeSantis, who is suing the cruise lines to stop private companies from being able to require vaccines.

“Not only are they not serious about confronting the reality of the crisis … they’re actively making it worse.

“They’ve become prisoners of their own memes, they’ve become prisoners of their own culture war here.

“You have Ron DeSantis, who is all-in, in apparently the belief that he can mount a presidential bid by being as reckless as possible here.”

— Conservative commenter Charlie Sykes

Not sure if you’re familiar with Sykes but he’s one of the biggest political commentary grifters out there.  Right up there with Project Lincoln so not sure the conservative title fits anymore.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 10, 2021, 10:13:22 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 10, 2021, 10:06:21 PM

Not sure if you’re familiar with Sykes but he’s one of the biggest political commentary grifters out there.  Right up there with Project Lincoln so not sure the conservative title fits anymore.

Cool. Every word he said was true.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on August 10, 2021, 10:17:15 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on August 10, 2021, 09:35:20 PM

Hysterical that India is suddenly a model when their numbers of dead are massively disputed at best.
Working with many people that have family there, the reported numbers are laughable at best.

I just mentioned it in the travel thread, people in India acting like its a resounding success.  But you're dead on about the death numbers being way off.  People telling me its under control and feel free to come, yet having all sorts of complaints and issues getting vaccinated and projecting wearing masks into mid 2022.  And that mask projection was BEFORE Delta got going worldwide.

I don't wish them ill but I trust basically nothing number wise there, especially when it comes to PR-esque stuff.  Its not intentionally dishonest and manipulative like the CCP, its just usually flawed and/or incomplete.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 10, 2021, 10:28:49 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 10, 2021, 10:06:21 PM

Not sure if you’re familiar with Sykes but he’s one of the biggest political commentary grifters out there.  Right up there with Project Lincoln so not sure the conservative title fits anymore.

That quote was posted simply because it was from "conservative" Charlie Sykes.  Poor attempt at a "gotcha".

Though the poster should be familiar with Sykes's fine work on MSLSD.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 10, 2021, 11:02:42 PM

Much easier to deflect than to actually refute what Sykes said.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 11, 2021, 06:57:25 AM

Quote from: MU82 on August 10, 2021, 10:02:31 PM

“You have Ron DeSantis, who is all-in, in apparently the belief that he can mount a presidential bid by being as reckless as possible here.”

The cynic in me says he is not wrong.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 11, 2021, 07:10:16 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 11, 2021, 06:57:25 AM

The cynic in me says he is not wrong.

Agree.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on August 11, 2021, 07:39:30 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 10, 2021, 10:06:21 PM

Not sure if you’re familiar with Sykes but he’s one of the biggest political commentary grifters out there.  Right up there with Project Lincoln so not sure the conservative title fits anymore.

It’s real funny because Sykes has effectively not changed one iota of his political ideology and he’s gone from “far right conservative” to “grifter”/not-conservative in the eyes of everyone who has just let themselves be pulled in the authoritarian wake of the “new” GOP.

Is he profiting off of being one of the only voices right of center willing to call out the lunatics poisoned by the last 5 years of GOP politics? Sure. Is he wrong? Nope.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on August 11, 2021, 07:54:43 AM

Quote from: jficke13 on August 11, 2021, 07:39:30 AM

It’s real funny because Sykes has effectively not changed one iota of his political ideology and he’s gone from “far right conservative” to “grifter”/not-conservative in the eyes of everyone who has just let themselves be pulled in the authoritarian wake of the “new” GOP.

Is he profiting off of being one of the only voices right of center willing to call out the lunatics poisoned by the last 5 years of GOP politics? Sure. Is he wrong? Nope.

You're either MAGA or RINO

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 11, 2021, 07:57:48 AM

Quote from: jficke13 on August 11, 2021, 07:39:30 AM

It’s real funny because Sykes has effectively not changed one iota of his political ideology and he’s gone from “far right conservative” to “grifter”/not-conservative in the eyes of everyone who has just let themselves be pulled in the authoritarian wake of the “new” GOP.

Is he profiting off of being one of the only voices right of center willing to call out the lunatics poisoned by the last 5 years of GOP politics? Sure. Is he wrong? Nope.

This. Like Kristol, Will, Wilson, and so many others (and more recently Cheney and Kinzinger), Sykes has been a conservative for decades.

Pace invoked "Project Lincoln." (Which actually is The Lincoln Project.) Those people -- and those in similar GOP Never Trump groups -- have been conservatives their entire political lives, dating back to when Trump was a pro-life, pro-universal healthcare Democrat with what Ted Cruz called "New York values." Sykes, Kristol, Will, etc haven't changed; their party was co-opted by a con man.

Quote from: jesmu84 on August 11, 2021, 07:54:43 AM

You're either MAGA or RINO

Today, Reagan would be considered a RINO.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 11, 2021, 08:05:30 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on August 10, 2021, 10:28:49 PM

That quote was posted simply because it was from "conservative" Charlie Sykes.

Putting conservative in quotes tells me all I need to know about your post.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 11, 2021, 08:40:09 AM

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/16/e2024850118

Interesting look into excess mortality and years loss of life.  Compares the data from a bad flu season of 2017 to Covid 2020.  Found that 3x’s as many years of life were lost as a result of excess mortality in 2017 compared to 2020.

More data backing up the idea that C19  (arguably more so then any other virus) attacks our seniors the worst.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on August 11, 2021, 08:49:37 AM

It’s pretty widely known that Sykes follows the trends to advance his career.  I’m not saying what he’s preaching is wrong, but I’m not sure how much I’d use him as a symbol of what conservatism is supposed to stand for.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 11, 2021, 08:54:57 AM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on August 11, 2021, 08:49:37 AM

It’s pretty widely known that Sykes follows the trends to advance his career.  I’m not saying what he’s preaching is wrong, but I’m not sure how much I’d use him as a symbol of what conservatism is supposed to stand for.

Saying he's a conservative doesn't mean I was using him as a "symbol" of conservativism. Is Obama a "symbol" of liberalism? Maybe yes, maybe no, but most would say he's a liberal.

But sure, Unk ... take away "conservative." Call him a kangaroo for all I care. He still was 100% correct about Abbott and DeSantis. They are actively, aggressively making the crises in their states worse through their words and deeds. Which you seem to agree with.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 11, 2021, 09:04:20 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 11, 2021, 08:05:30 AM

Putting conservative in quotes tells me all I need to know about your post.

If that quote was from any liberal commentator, it wouldn't have been posted.

Nads thought he had a gotcha with Sykes, not realizing that grifters gonna grift. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 11, 2021, 09:41:18 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on August 11, 2021, 09:04:20 AM

If that quote was from any liberal commentator, it wouldn't have been posted.

Nads thought he had a gotcha with Sykes, not realizing that grifters gonna grift.

Capt. Obsessive:

Sykes has been a conservative for decades ... but if you want to deny that, knock yourself out. Rather than making repeated passive-aggressive jabs at the messenger, though, how 'bout taking a stab at refuting what he said?

I didn't think so.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on August 11, 2021, 09:50:48 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on August 11, 2021, 09:04:20 AM

If that quote was from any liberal commentator, it wouldn't have been posted.

Nads thought he had a gotcha with Sykes, not realizing that grifters gonna grift.

Area man interprets information in manner most likely to confirm biases. News at 11!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on August 11, 2021, 09:51:11 AM

ad ho·mi·nem
/ˌad ˈhämənəm/
adjective
(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 11, 2021, 11:06:29 AM

Quote from: MU82 on August 11, 2021, 09:41:18 AM

Capt. Obsessive:

Sykes has been a conservative for decades ... but if you want to deny that, knock yourself out. Rather than making repeated passive-aggressive jabs at the messenger, though, how 'bout taking a stab at refuting what he said?

I didn't think so.

I don't disagree with what he said.  I'm very pro Vax.

Sykes is a grifter, just like the pedos at Project Lincoln.  That was my point.

You thought you had a gotcha, but no one cares what chucky sykes has to say. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 11, 2021, 01:34:10 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on August 11, 2021, 11:06:29 AM

I don't disagree with what he said.  I'm very pro Vax.

Sykes is a grifter, just like the pedos at Project Lincoln.  That was my point.

You thought you had a gotcha, but no one cares what chucky sykes has to say.

Thanks for agreeing. Have a great day!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on August 11, 2021, 02:30:37 PM

More COVID hospitalizations in Florida today than at any point of the pandemic, and it's not particularly close.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8iFfOhVcAMvAAt?format=jpg&name=900x900)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 11, 2021, 02:36:31 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on August 11, 2021, 02:30:37 PM

More COVID hospitalizations in Florida today than at any point of the pandemic, and it's not particularly close.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8iFfOhVcAMvAAt?format=jpg&name=900x900)

Don't worry ... Gov. DeSantis has things well under control! It's not like Florida is running out of emergency equipment to deal with this crush of infected patients or anything.

Oh wait ...

Florida to receive hundreds of ventilators from U.S. government to help state’s record hospitalizations

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/11/florida-ventilators-covid-hospitalizations/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F3460ffb%2F6113f26f9d2fda2f47ef9f59%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F54%2F72%2F6113f26f9d2fda2f47ef9f59

The federal government is sending hundreds of ventilators and other equipment to Florida — a response to the record number of coronavirus hospitalizations in a state that has become the epicenter of the U.S. pandemic.

At Florida’s request, the Department of Health and Human Services approved sending 200 ventilators and 100 smaller breathing devices and related supplies earlier this week, an agency spokesperson told The Washington Post. The devices came from the U.S. government’s Strategic National Stockpile, the federal repository for medical response.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on August 11, 2021, 02:40:13 PM

Quote from: MU82 on August 11, 2021, 02:36:31 PM

Don't worry ... Gov. DeSantis has things well under control! It's not like Florida is running out of emergency equipment to deal with this crush of infected patients or anything.

Oh wait ...

Florida to receive hundreds of ventilators from U.S. government to help state’s record hospitalizations

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/11/florida-ventilators-covid-hospitalizations/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F3460ffb%2F6113f26f9d2fda2f47ef9f59%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F54%2F72%2F6113f26f9d2fda2f47ef9f59

The federal government is sending hundreds of ventilators and other equipment to Florida — a response to the record number of coronavirus hospitalizations in a state that has become the epicenter of the U.S. pandemic.

At Florida’s request, the Department of Health and Human Services approved sending 200 ventilators and 100 smaller breathing devices and related supplies earlier this week, an agency spokesperson told The Washington Post. The devices came from the U.S. government’s Strategic National Stockpile, the federal repository for medical response.

Amazing

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on August 11, 2021, 02:45:13 PM

While COVID gets the news, there is an outbreak of a new RSV, starting in the South were many schools are back in session. This usually comes in a winter wave. Nor, will help hospital situation either.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wric.com/news/local-news/local-hospitals-see-unusual-increase-in-rsv-cases-among-children/amp/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on August 11, 2021, 03:15:46 PM

Governor DeathSentence.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on August 11, 2021, 03:58:54 PM

Just talked to someone @ work that had covid 10 months ago, his sense of smell and taste is still unnatural carnal knowledgeed up.

Many foods taste the same, crappy, like onions, tea and Pepsi or Coke. Gasoline, diesel fuel, dogcrap, even dead skunks all smell the same etc.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on August 11, 2021, 04:12:27 PM

Quote from: Spotcheck Billy on August 11, 2021, 03:58:54 PM

Just talked to someone @ work that had covid 10 months ago, his sense of smell and taste is still unnatural carnal knowledgeed up.

Many foods taste the same, crappy, like onions, tea and Pepsi or Coke. Gasoline, diesel fuel, dogcrap, even dead skunks all smell the same etc.

Welcome to my world.    My sense of taste is mostly OK.    My sense of smell is still a disaster.     There are two things I can consistently smell.    Poop and Chlorine.  All poop smells like acrid baby poop mixed with diaper creme.    And almost anything that smells remotely like poop; porta-johns, water filtration plants, fertilizer, etc., smells exactly the same.     I have smelled exactly one floral scent since November.    A female co-workers perfume at a union meeting.    And it was overwhelming.   
      There are days I smell nothing.    There are days I get surprised by a random smell.    For example, today while driving around, I smelled freshly cut wood where a tree removal service was taking down pine trees.    First time I had smelled that since November.
I will also frequently play 'guess the smell' with my family.    I will get hit with a smell and have absolutely no idea what I am smelling.    I will ask my family what they smell.     Diesel smoke, hot brakes, tar, usually fall into this category.   
    Some days I smell the Burger King across from my fire station.    Most days, no.    Some days I smell for a nanosecond the pizza i just picked up.    Usually for the amount of time it takes for me to buckle my seatbelt and start the car.     The upside is I am completely oblivious to my 14 year old sons teenage boy funk.    I am told by my wife that his catcher's gear reeks and that he has BO after a workout or a game.    No idea.   I can't smell coffee, cigars, pipe smoke, cigarette smoke.

I sympathize with your co-worker.   I have co-workers and friends (including the teenaged older sister of one of my son's travel baseball teammates) who have no sense of taste or smell.    It reminds me that it can always be worse.    COVID didn't kill me.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 11, 2021, 04:13:48 PM

Quote from: tower912 on August 11, 2021, 03:15:46 PM

Governor DeathSentence.

Noem is jealous, but she knows that in two to three weeks she can take credit for the Sturgis Surge.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 11, 2021, 04:20:40 PM

Quote from: tower912 on August 11, 2021, 04:12:27 PM

Welcome to my world.    My sense of taste is mostly OK.    My sense of smell is still a disaster.     There are two things I can consistently smell.    Poop and Chlorine.  All poop smells like acrid baby poop mixed with diaper creme.    And almost anything that smells remotely like poop; porta-johns, water filtration plants, fertilizer, etc., smells exactly the same.     

You should visit a GI specialist and a urologist, aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 12, 2021, 01:50:53 PM

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/08/vaccine-mandates-republicans-democrats/619735/

"The vaccinated, across party lines, have kind of had it with the unvaccinated, an array of new polls suggests.

...

These new results, shared exclusively with The Atlantic by several pollsters, reveal that significant majorities of people who have been vaccinated support vaccine mandates for health workers, government employees, college students, and airline travelers—even, in some surveys, for all Americans or all private-sector workers. Most of the vaccinated respondents also say that entry to entertainment and sporting arenas should require proof of vaccination, and half say the same about restaurants.

All of this suggests that as the Delta variant’s “pandemic of the unvaccinated” disrupts the return to “normal” life promised by the vaccines, a backlash may be intensifying among those who have received the shots against those who have not. And that could leave Republican leaders who have unstintingly stressed the rights of the unvaccinated—including Governors Ron DeSantis of Florida and Greg Abbott of Texas and House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy—in an exposed position.

As a political calculus, it’s “a risky one,” says Matthew Baum, a public-policy professor at Harvard University’s John F. Kennedy School of Government, and a co-founder of a multi-university study of public opinion on the outbreak. “Over time, this general sense may grow of ‘Why are we who are vaccinated enduring this in order to coddle this liberty fantasy of the unvaccinated?’ And I think that is going to get stronger as the inconvenience grows, and as the wind goes out of the getting-back-to-normal sails, which is clearly happening. Everybody I know is pissed off.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 12, 2021, 02:01:12 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 12, 2021, 01:50:53 PM

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/08/vaccine-mandates-republicans-democrats/619735/

"The vaccinated, across party lines, have kind of had it with the unvaccinated, an array of new polls suggests.

Good. Need to keep up the campaign. It definitely will help when these are more than "emergency" vaccines -- at least I hope so.

In related news ...

The largest U.S. teachers’ union announces support for vaccination or testing for educators

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/12/world/teachers-union-vaccine-mandate.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20210812&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=66079&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

The nation’s largest teachers' union on Thursday offered its support to policies that would require all teachers to get vaccinated against Covid or submit to regular testing.

It is the latest in a rapid series of shifts that could make widespread vaccine requirements for teachers more likely as the highly contagious Delta variant spreads in the United States.

“It is clear that the vaccination of those eligible is one of the most effective ways to keep schools safe,” Becky Pringle, president of the National Education Association, said in a statement.

The announcement comes after Randi Weingarten, the powerful leader of the American Federation of Teachers, another major education union, signaled her strongest support yet for vaccine mandates on Sunday.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 13, 2021, 03:57:09 PM

Canada v USA

https://twitter.com/erictopol/status/1426201990644727808?s=21

Must be nice to live in a place where this hasn’t been politicized and smart people understand the purpose of vaccines.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on August 13, 2021, 05:41:55 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 13, 2021, 03:57:09 PM

Canada v USA

https://twitter.com/erictopol/status/1426201990644727808?s=21

Must be nice to live in a place where this hasn’t been politicized and smart people understand the purpose of vaccines.

Hasn't Canada normally been about a month behind the US on spikes and COVID cases trends?

And has Canada had issues with vaccine distribution or availability?  Cause if its so much better than the US in this regard and vaccines are embraced I'd think the numbers would be higher...

Again, its not excusing any of the BS domestically, but it gets annoying when certain countries get glorified for COVID numbers or response with half the story See: India, Belgium, really many of the Western developed countries but SE Asian countries aside)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 13, 2021, 07:53:39 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on August 13, 2021, 05:41:55 PM

Hasn't Canada normally been about a month behind the US on spikes and COVID cases trends?

And has Canada had issues with vaccine distribution or availability?  Cause if its so much better than the US in this regard and vaccines are embraced I'd think the numbers would be higher...

Again, its not excusing any of the BS domestically, but it gets annoying when certain countries get glorified for COVID numbers or response with half the story See: India, Belgium, really many of the Western developed countries but SE Asian countries aside)

We will see. They started trending up at the same time.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 13, 2021, 08:08:07 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on August 13, 2021, 05:41:55 PM

Hasn't Canada normally been about a month behind the US on spikes and COVID cases trends?

And has Canada had issues with vaccine distribution or availability?  Cause if its so much better than the US in this regard and vaccines are embraced I'd think the numbers would be higher...

Again, its not excusing any of the BS domestically, but it gets annoying when certain countries get glorified for COVID numbers or response with half the story See: India, Belgium, really many of the Western developed countries but SE Asian countries aside)

They have the highest percent of fully vaccinated people in the developing world…plus the numbers include everyone.  Not everyone eligible (under 12 ~15% of pop).  So I’m not sure what number would be high enough but it’s pretty impressive overall and speed wise since they started in earnest after the US, UK & Israel.   

We will see if the delta wave there gets muted — I hope so since my state has similar vaccine stats. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on August 13, 2021, 10:07:50 PM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 13, 2021, 08:08:07 PM

They have the highest percent of fully vaccinated people in the developing world…plus the numbers include everyone.  Not everyone eligible (under 12 ~15% of pop).  So I’m not sure what number would be high enough but it’s pretty impressive overall and speed wise since they started in earnest after the US, UK & Israel.   

We will see if the delta wave there gets muted — I hope so since my state has similar vaccine stats.

I thought I saw Belgium and Portugal or Spain were both higher as well as a few South American countries.

But regardless, not that its not good work by Canada, I just find it amusing that 10-12% of the population is what separates something as a shining example of admiration and a supposed total embarrassment. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 14, 2021, 06:58:33 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on August 13, 2021, 10:07:50 PM

I thought I saw Belgium and Portugal or Spain were both higher as well as a few South American countries.

But regardless, not that its not good work by Canada, I just find it amusing that 10-12% of the population is what separates something as a shining example of admiration and a supposed total embarrassment.

You said the last part not me. 

The death rates are a little less than three times less in Canada.  So in my mind that is the proof they have done a lot better at being more cohesive across this whole thing.

I think we will see how much it matters.  Measure the hospitalization and death rates after these surges.  Both UK and Israel saw significantly less of both.

15% is 50M americans. That’s a huge amount of people — at our best clip of vaccinations would take two months to vaccinate and become immune if we started today. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: shoothoops on August 14, 2021, 07:30:52 AM

Tale of two Worlds:

No more room at VU Medical Center:

https://twitter.com/nc5philwilliams/status/1426259119200251906?s=21

Meanwhile, across the street, on the West End, at The Parthenon:

https://twitter.com/nick_hessler/status/1426394952427266049?s=21

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on August 15, 2021, 10:29:34 PM

Children dying that didn't need to die.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/mississippi-8th-grader-whod-only-135946616.html
 (https://www.yahoo.com/news/mississippi-8th-grader-whod-only-135946616.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on August 17, 2021, 05:36:59 PM

Thoughts and prayers to governor Abbott

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 17, 2021, 06:22:38 PM

Yep. Another great "leader."

From the AP:

The positive test comes a day after Abbott, who has seldom been seen wearing a mask in public recently, did not wear one while speaking indoors near Dallas to a crowded room of GOP supporters, most of whom were older and unmasked. Video posted by his campaign shows the 63-year-old governor — who is up for reelection in 2022 and has drawn two GOP challengers who have attacked the virus restrictions he put in place last year — mingling with attendees as they gathered around him taking pictures.

“Another standing room only event in Collin County tonight,” Abbott tweeted.

The event was held by a group called the Republican Club at Heritage Ranch. Reached by phone Tuesday after Abbott announced he had tested positive, Jack DeSimone, president of the club, said he did not like “to have conversations like this” and declined to comment further on Abbott’s appearance.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on August 17, 2021, 07:16:58 PM

Quote from: MU82 on August 17, 2021, 06:22:38 PM

Yep. Another great "leader."

From the AP:

The positive test comes a day after Abbott, who has seldom been seen wearing a mask in public recently, did not wear one while speaking indoors near Dallas to a crowded room of GOP supporters, most of whom were older and unmasked. Video posted by his campaign shows the 63-year-old governor — who is up for reelection in 2022 and has drawn two GOP challengers who have attacked the virus restrictions he put in place last year — mingling with attendees as they gathered around him taking pictures.

“Another standing room only event in Collin County tonight,” Abbott tweeted.

The event was held by a group called the Republican Club at Heritage Ranch. Reached by phone Tuesday after Abbott announced he had tested positive, Jack DeSimone, president of the club, said he did not like “to have conversations like this” and declined to comment further on Abbott’s appearance.

  is this your same reaction to people who get aids?  motorcycle riders sans helmits?  women who suffer bad consequences post abortions? 

you gotta stop the "gotcha" moments dude.  we get it...you dance on the graves of those who don't agree with you.  all of the information about this virus isn't out yet.  mark my words-there will be a lot of the stuff we think is true today, proven wrong.  that is how the world evolves and we improve.

    you know how many people whose minds you've changed?  probably about less than 1, but you win the schadenfreude trophy of scoop-go have an ice cream err something 

gee...what happened to influenza??? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on August 17, 2021, 07:33:16 PM

Quote from: MU82 on August 17, 2021, 06:22:38 PM

Yep. Another great "leader."

From the AP:

The positive test comes a day after Abbott, who has seldom been seen wearing a mask in public recently, did not wear one while speaking indoors near Dallas to a crowded room of GOP supporters, most of whom were older and unmasked. Video posted by his campaign shows the 63-year-old governor — who is up for reelection in 2022 and has drawn two GOP challengers who have attacked the virus restrictions he put in place last year — mingling with attendees as they gathered around him taking pictures.

“Another standing room only event in Collin County tonight,” Abbott tweeted.

The event was held by a group called the Republican Club at Heritage Ranch. Reached by phone Tuesday after Abbott announced he had tested positive, Jack DeSimone, president of the club, said he did not like “to have conversations like this” and declined to comment further on Abbott’s appearance.

Ok, but he's fully vaccinated.  He likely didn't contract it last night.  So he could have got it from anywhere.

I don't support his opposition to many of the preventative measures, but the gleeful schadenfreude around his diagnosis has the same tenor as for those who are openly and proudly unvaccinated.  Which doesn't make sense considering his actual infection risks and status give his vaccination is the same as the most ardent and loud vaccine supporters.  Unless we've now shifted to "serves you right" for anyone unmasked that gets infected, even if vaccinated.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 17, 2021, 09:29:09 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on August 17, 2021, 07:16:58 PM

  is this your same reaction to people who get aids?  motorcycle riders sans helmits?  women who suffer bad consequences post abortions? 

you gotta stop the "gotcha" moments dude.  we get it...you dance on the graves of those who don't agree with you.  all of the information about this virus isn't out yet.  mark my words-there will be a lot of the stuff we think is true today, proven wrong.  that is how the world evolves and we improve.

    you know how many people whose minds you've changed?  probably about less than 1, but you win the schadenfreude trophy of scoop-go have an ice cream err something 

gee...what happened to influenza??? 

I just like to see you triggered.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 17, 2021, 09:43:36 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on August 17, 2021, 07:16:58 PM

all of the information about this virus isn't out yet.  mark my words-there will be a lot of the stuff we think is true today, proven wrong.

This is why we don't need peer reviewed studies, right? And how there have actually been studies but "they" won't let them be published, right?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on August 17, 2021, 09:54:39 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on August 17, 2021, 07:33:16 PM

Ok, but he's fully vaccinated.  He likely didn't contract it last night.  So he could have got it from anywhere.

I don't support his opposition to many of the preventative measures, but the gleeful schadenfreude around his diagnosis has the same tenor as for those who are openly and proudly unvaccinated.  Which doesn't make sense considering his actual infection risks and status give his vaccination is the same as the most ardent and loud vaccine supporters.  Unless we've now shifted to "serves you right" for anyone unmasked that gets infected, even if vaccinated.

What irritates me is that he is forbidding others from enacting policies that protect those who cannot get vaccinated.

Meanwhile, he refuses to wear a mask, but gets tested for COVID everyday, and immediately after he tested positive today they were hooking him up to an IV to give him Regeneron, at $1500 a treatment...all on the taxpayer's dime.

Forbidding others from enacting lifesaving policies; using taxpayer money to give him advantages not available to anyone else.

Absolutely disgusting.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on August 17, 2021, 10:17:01 PM

Quote from: forgetful on August 17, 2021, 09:54:39 PM

What irritates me is that he is forbidding others from enacting policies that protect those who cannot get vaccinated.

Meanwhile, he refuses to wear a mask, but gets tested for COVID everyday, and immediately after he tested positive today they were hooking him up to an IV to give him Regeneron, at $1500 a treatment...all on the taxpayer's dime.

Forbidding others from enacting lifesaving policies; using taxpayer money to give him advantages not available to anyone else.

Absolutely disgusting.

I don't have any issue with the latter half, its completely valid.  The whole "karma sucks" angle to a vaccinated person testing positive, no matter what they are doing otherwise, just seems odd.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on August 17, 2021, 10:55:09 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on August 17, 2021, 10:17:01 PM

I don't have any issue with the latter half, its completely valid.  The whole "karma sucks" angle to a vaccinated person testing positive, no matter what they are doing otherwise, just seems odd.

I agree on the bolded. I get no joy in seeing others fall ill or fall on hard times, no matter what.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 17, 2021, 11:20:49 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on August 17, 2021, 07:33:16 PM

Ok, but he's fully vaccinated.  He likely didn't contract it last night.  So he could have got it from anywhere.

I don't support his opposition to many of the preventative measures, but the gleeful schadenfreude around his diagnosis has the same tenor as for those who are openly and proudly unvaccinated.  Which doesn't make sense considering his actual infection risks and status give his vaccination is the same as the most ardent and loud vaccine supporters.  Unless we've now shifted to "serves you right" for anyone unmasked that gets infected, even if vaccinated.

Nope, Wags, not "gleeful" at all. I do not wish pain and suffering on other human beings. I posted a fact-filled AP article.

And I'll second what forgetful said:

Quote from: forgetful on August 17, 2021, 09:54:39 PM

What irritates me is that he is forbidding others from enacting policies that protect those who cannot get vaccinated.

Meanwhile, he refuses to wear a mask, but gets tested for COVID everyday, and immediately after he tested positive today they were hooking him up to an IV to give him Regeneron, at $1500 a treatment...all on the taxpayer's dime.

Forbidding others from enacting lifesaving policies; using taxpayer money to give him advantages not available to anyone else.

Absolutely disgusting.

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on August 17, 2021, 07:16:58 PM

  is this your same reaction to people who get aids?  motorcycle riders sans helmits?  women who suffer bad consequences post abortions? 

you gotta stop the "gotcha" moments dude.  we get it...you dance on the graves of those who don't agree with you.  all of the information about this virus isn't out yet.  mark my words-there will be a lot of the stuff we think is true today, proven wrong.  that is how the world evolves and we improve.

    you know how many people whose minds you've changed?  probably about less than 1, but you win the schadenfreude trophy of scoop-go have an ice cream err something 

gee...what happened to influenza??? 

Tucker is very proud of you for spouting all that gibberish.

Read the above from forgetful; stop trying to make believe COVID-19 is only as bad as the flu; stop equating it to AIDS because it has nothing to do with AIDS; and stop supporting "leaders" who actively, aggressively undermine our nation's response to a deadly, highly contagious virus that already has killed 600,000-plus Americans.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on August 17, 2021, 11:34:58 PM

Found out a long time, now retired employee was hospitalized for Covid on the 9th. He retired at 58 in 2019, hard working operator. Loved his job and loved training the next generation more than anything.

Spent the last two years coaching softball and baseball for his grandchildren. That was his retirement gig.

Hospital on 9th, vent on the 13th and dead yesterday. He texted his work contact list before being put on the vent.

“Get the vaccine. You don’t want this. I don’t think I’m leaving here.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 18, 2021, 08:24:41 AM

Quote from: forgetful on August 17, 2021, 09:54:39 PM

What irritates me is that he is forbidding others from enacting policies that protect those who cannot get vaccinated.

Meanwhile, he refuses to wear a mask, but gets tested for COVID everyday, and immediately after he tested positive today they were hooking him up to an IV to give him Regeneron, at $1500 a treatment...all on the taxpayer's dime.

Forbidding others from enacting lifesaving policies; using taxpayer money to give him advantages not available to anyone else.

Absolutely disgusting.

https://mobile.twitter.com/dandarling/status/1427962893178392580

Why aren’t we hearing more about Hawaii, Louisiana, North Carolina, or other states run by democrat governors who are struggling equally to that of Texas and Florida?  Is it because they have put in all the “appropriate” mitigation measures but have had similar outcomes so that doesn’t fit the narrative or is it the political party affiliation that leads so many on this board to ignore their outcomes? 

With what is going on in Israel I think we’re in for another long fall/winter season in the Midwest and for the first time in a long time the idea of lockdowns, no indoor large gatherings, etc seems more then likely.  When will we get any sort of leadership from the federal level on this?  Their initial response with the mass vaccination sites etc I thought was pretty good but I can’t remember the last time they was anything productive regarding C19 coming out of this administration.  Just a lot of pointing fingers and picking fights with Republican governors.

I’d you look at the seasonality peaks and declines of 2020 it suggests it’s just a matter of time before every state gets hit.  Shocking to me to see our August case numbers in 2021 are 3x’s worse then they were in August of 2020 even though we have 100s of millions of people fully vaccinated and a whole slew of others with natural protection, just a never ending mess.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on August 18, 2021, 09:33:58 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 18, 2021, 08:24:41 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/dandarling/status/1427962893178392580

Why aren’t we hearing more about Hawaii, Louisiana, North Carolina, or other states run by democrat governors who are struggling equally to that of Texas and Florida?  Is it because they have put in all the “appropriate” mitigation measures but have had similar outcomes so that doesn’t fit the narrative or is it the political party affiliation that leads so many on this board to ignore their outcomes? 

With what is going on in Israel I think we’re in for another long fall/winter season in the Midwest and for the first time in a long time the idea of lockdowns, no indoor large gatherings, etc seems more then likely.  When will we get any sort of leadership from the federal level on this?  Their initial response with the mass vaccination sites etc I thought was pretty good but I can’t remember the last time they was anything productive regarding C19 coming out of this administration.  Just a lot of pointing fingers and picking fights with Republican governors.

I’d you look at the seasonality peaks and declines of 2020 it suggests it’s just a matter of time before every state gets hit.  Shocking to me to see our August case numbers in 2021 are 3x’s worse then they were in August of 2020 even though we have 100s of millions of people fully vaccinated and a whole slew of others with natural protection, just a never ending mess.

Case numbers are misleading, but I assume you knew that.

What do hospitalizations look like in each state? Deaths? Vaccinations compared to those numbers?

Vaccinations are primarily there to prevent hospitalizations and deaths, regardless of case numbers. People are out and about doing more in 2021 because of the vaccine. And if those testing positive now aren't in the hospital or dying, that's what's important.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on August 18, 2021, 09:42:11 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on August 18, 2021, 09:33:58 AM

Case numbers are misleading, but I assume you knew that.

What do hospitalizations look like in each state? Deaths? Vaccinations compared to those numbers?

Vaccinations are primarily there to prevent hospitalizations and deaths, regardless of case numbers. People are out and about doing more in 2021 because of the vaccine. And if those testing positive now aren't in the hospital or dying, that's what's important.

I don't disagree at all, but there is still a lot of talk about case numbers and positive tests when discussing mask mandates and travel restrictions, etc...  Its all a bit muddled

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 18, 2021, 09:50:35 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on August 18, 2021, 09:42:11 AM

I don't disagree at all, but there is still a lot of talk about case numbers and positive tests when discussing mask mandates and travel restrictions, etc...  Its all a bit muddled

The reality is the more virus that is out there the worse it is for everyone particularly if you want a large unvaccinated cohort back in school. It doesn’t change the calculus for vaccination  but the vaccines aren’t the firewall for transmission that they were for other variants.  That’s why it’s important in my mind. 

In my opinion this won’t be ‘over’ (relax and restrict some normal behavior) until the hospitals stop filling up with COVID patients.  They are not designed to handle that on top of normal operations and regardless of what you ‘believe’ is right, the general populations behavior will be impacted until that point.    We need more vaccines taken to achieve that. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 18, 2021, 10:06:34 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on August 18, 2021, 09:33:58 AM

Case numbers are misleading, but I assume you knew that.

What do hospitalizations look like in each state? Deaths? Vaccinations compared to those numbers?

Vaccinations are primarily there to prevent hospitalizations and deaths, regardless of case numbers. People are out and about doing more in 2021 because of the vaccine. And if those testing positive now aren't in the hospital or dying, that's what's important.

Agree with this as well.  I track Wisconsin’s hospitalization, ventilator #’s, ICU capacity, deaths (slightly lower) etc and almost all of those categories are worse off this August compared to last August.  Can’t speak to everywhere else but from the data tracking website I use despite case counts being 3x’s that of last year at this time 7 day avg of deaths has been cut in half nationally compared to August of last year so that’s definitely good news!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on August 18, 2021, 10:07:45 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 17, 2021, 09:43:36 PM

This is why we don't need peer reviewed studies, right? And how there have actually been studies but "they" won't let them be published, right?

 so dr smith, how many peer reviewed articles have you read?  i don't know what you do or studied to make you the smartest guy in the room, but you ever hear of the "lancet"?  one of the most respected medical journals in the world...well was, may be a more accurate term.  just because something is "peer reviewed" still doesn't make it the "gold standard"  but you knew that of course. 

ivermectin is an excellent example of what is/has been "peer reviewed" and what hasn't.  youtube and facebook censors any mention of ivormectin and covid.  ivormectin has been around a LONG time, is about $3/dose.  find any "peer reviewed" studies on that? 

 


https://www.drugawareness.org/editor-of-lancet-medical-research-is-unreliable-at-best-or-completely-fraudulent/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 18, 2021, 10:20:21 AM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on August 18, 2021, 10:07:45 AM

so dr smith, how many peer reviewed articles have you read?  i don't know what you do or studied to make you the smartest guy in the room, but you ever hear of the "lancet"?  one of the most respected medical journals in the world...well was, may be a more accurate term.  just because something is "peer reviewed" still doesn't make it the "gold standard"  but you knew that of course. 

ivermectin is an excellent example of what is/has been "peer reviewed" and what hasn't.  youtube and facebook censors any mention of ivormectin and covid.  ivormectin has been around a LONG time, is about $3/dose.  find any "peer reviewed" studies on that? 

 


https://www.drugawareness.org/editor-of-lancet-medical-research-is-unreliable-at-best-or-completely-fraudulent/

Linking to a whack job website isn't the slam dunk you think it is.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on August 18, 2021, 11:28:33 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 18, 2021, 10:06:34 AM

Agree with this as well.  I track Wisconsin’s hospitalization, ventilator #’s, ICU capacity, deaths (slightly lower) etc and almost all of those categories are worse off this August compared to last August.  Can’t speak to everywhere else but from the data tracking website I use despite case counts being 3x’s that of last year at this time 7 day avg of deaths has been cut in half nationally compared to August of last year so that’s definitely good news!

What website?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on August 18, 2021, 11:29:02 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on August 18, 2021, 09:42:11 AM

I don't disagree at all, but there is still a lot of talk about case numbers and positive tests when discussing mask mandates and travel restrictions, etc...  Its all a bit muddled

Agreed. That part is media driven crap

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on August 18, 2021, 11:34:21 AM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on August 18, 2021, 10:07:45 AM

so dr smith, how many peer reviewed articles have you read?  i don't know what you do or studied to make you the smartest guy in the room, but you ever hear of the "lancet"?  one of the most respected medical journals in the world...well was, may be a more accurate term.  just because something is "peer reviewed" still doesn't make it the "gold standard"  but you knew that of course. 

ivermectin is an excellent example of what is/has been "peer reviewed" and what hasn't.  youtube and facebook censors any mention of ivormectin and covid.  ivormectin has been around a LONG time, is about $3/dose.  find any "peer reviewed" studies on that? 

 


https://www.drugawareness.org/editor-of-lancet-medical-research-is-unreliable-at-best-or-completely-fraudulent/

Source?

I literally just searched on YouTube and found a ton of videos posted in the last week

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 18, 2021, 11:48:36 AM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on August 18, 2021, 10:07:45 AM

so dr smith, how many peer reviewed articles have you read?  i don't know what you do or studied to make you the smartest guy in the room, but you ever hear of the "lancet"?  one of the most respected medical journals in the world...well was, may be a more accurate term.  just because something is "peer reviewed" still doesn't make it the "gold standard"  but you knew that of course. 

ivermectin is an excellent example of what is/has been "peer reviewed" and what hasn't.  youtube and facebook censors any mention of ivormectin and covid.  ivormectin has been around a LONG time, is about $3/dose.  find any "peer reviewed" studies on that? 

 


https://www.drugawareness.org/editor-of-lancet-medical-research-is-unreliable-at-best-or-completely-fraudulent/

"Medical" "professional" strikes again. In your "professional" opinion, do you recommend taking the malaria drug and horse de-wormer together? Or do you administer them sequentially?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 18, 2021, 12:14:43 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on August 18, 2021, 11:28:33 AM

What website?

https://www.wha.org/Covid-19Update

For Wisconsin numbers I use Wisconsin Hospital Association website.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Use this one for National numbers out of habit but I’m sure there are better ones out there.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on August 18, 2021, 12:49:10 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on August 18, 2021, 10:07:45 AM

so dr smith, how many peer reviewed articles have you read?  i don't know what you do or studied to make you the smartest guy in the room, but you ever hear of the "lancet"?  one of the most respected medical journals in the world...well was, may be a more accurate term.  just because something is "peer reviewed" still doesn't make it the "gold standard"  but you knew that of course. 

ivermectin is an excellent example of what is/has been "peer reviewed" and what hasn't.  youtube and facebook censors any mention of ivormectin and covid.  ivormectin has been around a LONG time, is about $3/dose.  find any "peer reviewed" studies on that? 

 


https://www.drugawareness.org/editor-of-lancet-medical-research-is-unreliable-at-best-or-completely-fraudulent/

Ivermectin can't pass peer review, because its data is bogus at best. Richard Horton (who was quoted in your whack-job website), was referencing how some bad research practices can get past peer review, because of flaws in the system as it relates to statistical measures and significance.

The fact that the Ivermectin can't even get through peer review at pay-to-publish companies should tell you something.

Why do you keep beating this dead horse? Anyone with even a modicum of scientific understanding should be able to look at the Ivermectin studies and realize it doesn't pass even the simplest of scrutiny.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 18, 2021, 01:30:39 PM

Quote from: forgetful on August 18, 2021, 12:49:10 PM

Why do you keep beating this dead horse? Anyone with even a modicum of scientific understanding should be able to look at the Ivermectin studies and realize it doesn't pass even the simplest of scrutiny.

Ummm, I think you answered your own question.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on August 18, 2021, 01:58:56 PM

Ivermectin = snake oil.    Keep peddling that snake oil, keep pimping for the virus.     


Now, maybe, at some point, there will be a peer reviewed study that says ivermectin does all that.    That study does not yet exist.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on August 18, 2021, 02:31:49 PM

Quote from: tower912 on August 18, 2021, 01:58:56 PM

Ivermectin = snake oil.    Keep peddling that snake oil, keep pimping for the virus.     


Now, maybe, at some point, there will be a peer reviewed study that says ivermectin does all that.    That study does not yet exist.

Because it's being suppressed by big pharma

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 18, 2021, 02:35:29 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on August 18, 2021, 02:31:49 PM

Because it's being suppressed by big pharma

And Facebook and YouTube. Don't believe your lying eyes.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 19, 2021, 07:07:56 AM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on August 18, 2021, 10:07:45 AM

so dr smith, how many peer reviewed articles have you read?  i don't know what you do or studied to make you the smartest guy in the room, but you ever hear of the "lancet"?  one of the most respected medical journals in the world...well was, may be a more accurate term.  just because something is "peer reviewed" still doesn't make it the "gold standard"  but you knew that of course. 

ivermectin is an excellent example of what is/has been "peer reviewed" and what hasn't.  youtube and facebook censors any mention of ivormectin and covid.  ivormectin has been around a LONG time, is about $3/dose.  find any "peer reviewed" studies on that? 

 


https://www.drugawareness.org/editor-of-lancet-medical-research-is-unreliable-at-best-or-completely-fraudulent/

I'm impressed that your friends around here don't tell you to stop making an ass of yourself.  Even privately.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 19, 2021, 10:21:40 AM

This is what happens when medically illiterate morons/politically blinded people like rocketbrain promote invermectin.

Person Hospitalized After Taking Livestock Ivermectin From Feed Store To Treat COVID-19
https://www.mississippifreepress.org/15002/person-hospitalized-after-taking-livestock-ivermectin-from-feed-store-to-treat-covid-19/

"At least one individual has been hospitalized in Mississippi after ingesting a drug intended for treating worms in livestock, the Mississippi State Department of Health revealed today. The medicine, ivermectin, is not approved for treating COVID-19.

“There are potential toxicities. So it’s something, you know, as you know, I think some people are trying to use it as a preventative, which I think is really kind of crazy. So please don’t do that,” Mississippi State Health Officer Dr. Thomas Dobbs said during a discussion on Zoom today.

“You know, for the life of me, I don’t get it. Dr. Dobbs, you have a vaccine that’s safe and effective. And yet people, as opposed to getting the vaccine, want to go after these kinds of things,” MSDH Communications Director Liz Sharlot said during today’s Zoom discussion."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 19, 2021, 01:18:55 PM

Yep ... should just stick with demon seed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 19, 2021, 02:09:08 PM

Quote from: MU82 on August 19, 2021, 01:18:55 PM

Yep ... should just stick with demon seed.

But it's only $3/dose! Or so I have been told. Of course, bleach is only about $0.10/dose.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 19, 2021, 03:07:33 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 19, 2021, 02:09:08 PM

Of course, bleach is only about $0.10/dose.

Come on! He was being sarcastic!

While he calmly looked right at Dr. Birx and went on and on while asking her to look into the science of injecting humans with disinfectant.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on August 19, 2021, 03:12:01 PM

Quote from: MU82 on August 19, 2021, 03:07:33 PM

Come on! He was being sarcastic!

While he calmly looked right at Dr. Birx and went on and on while asking her to look into the science of injecting humans with disinfectant.

C'mon man.  I know it's funny, but you're just poking bears with crap like this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 19, 2021, 04:00:25 PM

Took my dogs to the vet today for their annual shots and picked up their heart worm prevention pills...which I noticed are invermectin based.

Looks like I am going to be COVID-free for the next six months! (Sorry, doggies, you're just going to have to chance it).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 19, 2021, 09:18:48 PM

Hickenlooper (D-Senator) tests positive for C19.

Thoughts.

Prayers.


Is that how this works?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on August 19, 2021, 09:26:26 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 19, 2021, 09:18:48 PM

Hickenlooper (D-Senator) tests positive for C19.

Thoughts.

Prayers.


Is that how this works?

What were his views/stances surrounding covid mitigation prior to infection?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 19, 2021, 09:31:48 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on August 19, 2021, 09:26:26 PM

What were his views/stances surrounding covid mitigation prior to infection?

Doesn’t matter, he got it.

Thoughts.

Prayers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: naginiF on August 19, 2021, 09:32:37 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 19, 2021, 09:18:48 PM

Hickenlooper (D-Senator) tests positive for C19.

Thoughts.

Prayers.


Is that how this works?

Depends. Did he actively minimize the severity of COVID, minimize necessity of precautions (masking, quarantine, distancing, etc.), or withhold aid from those who are suffering the most from the pandemic? If the answer is "yes" then you are doing it correct. If "no"....... well you know what that means.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 19, 2021, 09:39:53 PM

Quote from: naginiF on August 19, 2021, 09:32:37 PM

Depends. Did he actively minimize the severity of COVID, minimize necessity of precautions (masking, quarantine, distancing, etc.), or withhold aid from those who are suffering the most from the pandemic? If the answer is "yes" then you are doing it correct. If "no"....... well you know what that means.

If he got it that means he wasn’t taking the necessary precautions so despite what he said his actions were obviously different.

I don’t make the rules, sorry.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: naginiF on August 19, 2021, 09:47:55 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 19, 2021, 09:39:53 PM

If he got it that means he wasn’t taking the necessary precautions so despite what he said his actions were obviously different.

I don’t make the rules, sorry.

Specifically what actions of his were obviously different? If he was hypocritical, yes he very much is to blame for his actions.
If you don't know that he was hypocritical in his actions and you are just trying to play the "gotcha" game just say "I'm pointing out that people who try to do all the right things can also get COVID and I'm trying to equate that to people who use their positions of authority to directly undermine public health"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on August 19, 2021, 09:49:39 PM

Those are called breakthrough cases.   And another reminder that this isn't remotely over.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 19, 2021, 09:56:36 PM

Quote from: naginiF on August 19, 2021, 09:47:55 PM

Specifically what actions of his were obviously different? If he was hypocritical, yes he very much is to blame for his actions.
If you don't know that he was hypocritical in his actions and you are just trying to play the "gotcha" game just say "I'm pointing out that people who try to do all the right things can also get COVID and I'm trying to equate that to people who use their positions of authority to directly undermine public health"

There’s been quite a few instances of politicians saying one thing and getting caught doing the exact opposite.  I have no idea the details of Hickenlooper’s case but I’ll give him the same benefit of the doubt this board gives other elected officials. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: naginiF on August 19, 2021, 10:05:29 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 19, 2021, 09:56:36 PM

There’s been quite a few instances of politicians saying one thing and getting caught doing the exact opposite.  I have no idea the details of Hickenlooper’s case but I’ll give him the same benefit of the doubt this board gives other elected officials.

Cool. So.....

Quote from: naginiF on August 19, 2021, 09:47:55 PM

"I'm pointing out that people who try to do all the right things can also get COVID and I'm trying to equate that to people who use their positions of authority to directly undermine public health"

As I've said, if he's used his position to undermine public health or been a hypocrite in his actions then 'thoughts and prayers' away. If he hasn't, your political projecting should be apparent to even you.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 19, 2021, 10:08:36 PM

Quote from: naginiF on August 19, 2021, 10:05:29 PM

Cool. So.....As I've said, if he's used his position to undermine public health or been a hypocrite in his actions then 'thoughts and prayers' away. If he hasn't, your political projecting should be apparent to even you.

Do you know what his actions have been?   I assume he was not wearing a mask in close proximity or someone, which I imagine is hypocritical to what he suggests his constituents do.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 20, 2021, 06:29:11 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 19, 2021, 10:08:36 PM

Do you know what his actions have been?   I assume he was not wearing a mask in close proximity or someone, which I imagine is hypocritical to what he suggests his constituents do.

You should probably take a break.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 20, 2021, 06:42:08 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on August 20, 2021, 06:29:11 AM

You should probably take a break.

How else would he have gotten it?  Or are you saying masks don’t work?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 20, 2021, 06:58:25 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on August 20, 2021, 06:29:11 AM

You should probably take a break.

Trolling is hard work.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 20, 2021, 06:58:38 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 20, 2021, 06:42:08 AM

How else would he have gotten it?  Or are you saying masks don’t work?

You're going to try to turn this in to an absolutist argument?  Now?  lol.

I'm not excusing or claiming to know his behavior, but you do realize that saying 'thoughts and prayers' like many others have been doing around here towards this guy is objectively different from saying it to someone like Andre Jacque... don't you?

I mean, it's fundamental to the understanding of schadenfreude.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on August 20, 2021, 07:02:16 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on August 20, 2021, 06:58:38 AM

You're going to try to turn this in to an absolutist argument?  Now? lol.

I'm not excusing or claiming to know his behavior, but you do realize that saying 'thoughts and prayers' like many others have been doing around here towards this guy is objectively different from saying it to someone like Andre Jacque... don't you?

I mean, it's fundamental to the understanding of schadenfreude.

He's just doing what he's spent the entire pandemic doing. There hasn't been a single post made in good faith from him at any point. Why would we think he would do so now?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 20, 2021, 07:30:54 AM

The troll conveniently didn't mention that two senators besides Hickenlooper -- Republican Roger Wicker and Independent Angus King -- also announced yesterday they had COVID-19.

Unlike Abbott, none of the three was known to have worked overtime to undermine health and safety protocols that could protect constituents.

In the last week, Texas had more COVID-19 deaths than any other state. Thank goodness Abbott is working actively and aggressively to prevent school districts from protecting children from a highly contagious virus that is increasingly infecting and hospitalizing younger people.

The troll's main target, Hickenlooper, said this to conclude his announcement:

“I’m grateful for the vaccine (& the scientists behind it!) for limiting my symptoms. If you haven’t gotten your shot – get it today! And a booster when it’s available too!”

Sounds like a real jerk!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on August 20, 2021, 07:34:23 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 19, 2021, 09:18:48 PM

Hickenlooper (D-Senator) tests positive for C19.

Thoughts.

Prayers.


Is that how this works?

You are leaving out the other 2 Senators that tested positive.

Stephen Colbert had the quote on this correctly, (along the lines of) "Proving that COVID-19 is bipartisan, 3 Senators texted positive today - 1 Republican, 1 Independent & 1 Democrat."

And that's not how "Thoughts and prayers" snark works.
Happy Friday!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 20, 2021, 08:49:33 AM

Quote from: jficke13 on August 20, 2021, 07:02:16 AM

He's just doing what he's spent the entire pandemic doing. There hasn't been a single post made in good faith from him at any point. Why would we think he would do so now?

This

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 20, 2021, 09:38:05 AM

Quote from: MU82 on August 20, 2021, 07:30:54 AM

The troll conveniently didn't mention that two senators besides Hickenlooper -- Republican Roger Wicker and Independent Angus King -- also announced yesterday they had COVID-19.

Unlike Abbott, none of the three was known to have worked overtime to undermine health and safety protocols that could protect constituents.

In the last week, Texas had more COVID-19 deaths than any other state. Thank goodness Abbott is working actively and aggressively to prevent school districts from protecting children from a highly contagious virus that is increasingly infecting and hospitalizing younger people.

The troll's main target, Hickenlooper, said this to conclude his announcement:

“I’m grateful for the vaccine (& the scientists behind it!) for limiting my symptoms. If you haven’t gotten your shot – get it today! And a booster when it’s available too!”

Sounds like a real jerk!

His remarks sound very similar to Abbots comment as well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on August 20, 2021, 09:42:21 AM

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/jul/16/huge-study-supporting-ivermectin-as-covid-treatment-withdrawn-over-ethical-concerns (https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/jul/16/huge-study-supporting-ivermectin-as-covid-treatment-withdrawn-over-ethical-concerns)

I'll just leave this here for those wondering why Ivermectin studies aren't getting past peer review.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on August 20, 2021, 09:44:22 AM

https://www.yahoo.com/news/georgia-gov-kemp-signs-order-222129934.html

Kemp allowing businesses to ignore local Covid mandates.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 20, 2021, 10:18:58 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 20, 2021, 09:38:05 AM

His remarks sound very similar to Abbots comment as well.

Objective fantasy land.  One is working to save people the other is indifferent to their safety.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 20, 2021, 10:52:39 AM

Quote from: forgetful on August 20, 2021, 09:42:21 AM

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/jul/16/huge-study-supporting-ivermectin-as-covid-treatment-withdrawn-over-ethical-concerns (https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/jul/16/huge-study-supporting-ivermectin-as-covid-treatment-withdrawn-over-ethical-concerns)

I'll just leave this here for those wondering why Ivermectin studies aren't getting past peer review.

Wow. Quite an amazing read. Too many good tidbits to quote, but "scientific fraud" stands out.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 20, 2021, 10:55:18 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 20, 2021, 09:38:05 AM

His remarks sound very similar to Abbots comment as well.

You're hilarious.

Abbott and DeSantis and others you adore are actively, aggressively working to undermine the health and safety of their constituents. But do keep defending them at all costs, Tucker.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on August 20, 2021, 11:25:06 AM

If he believes it, he's got a terminal case of Online Brain. Either that or he's knowingly posting in bad faith, there's literally no other option.

If he believe it, there's no reasoning with someone who's experience of reality is fundamentally at odds with objective reality.

If he's just acting in bad faith, there's no point in trying to reason with him because he'll just sea lion anything you say anyway because drawing a reaction is the point.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on August 20, 2021, 12:22:09 PM

Two new variants are here.   Dig out your masks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on August 20, 2021, 12:28:08 PM

Quote from: tower912 on August 20, 2021, 12:22:09 PM

Two new variants are here.   Dig out your masks.

Is this the lambda and B.1.621? Or am I already behind on my variants?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUfan12 on August 20, 2021, 12:29:03 PM

Quote from: tower912 on August 20, 2021, 12:22:09 PM

Two new variants are here.   Dig out your masks.

Got several on. Gotta cover the eyes, ears, and junk too. Can't be too careful with these variants.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 20, 2021, 12:48:20 PM

Quote from: MUfan12 on August 20, 2021, 12:29:03 PM

Got several on. Gotta cover the eyes, ears, and junk too. Can't be too careful with these variants.

Good. And while you are at it, get every vaccine hesitant moron you know vaxxed so that we can stop wearing them asap. Thank you for your service.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 20, 2021, 12:50:41 PM

From the AP:

Dr. Francis Collins, head of the National Institutes of Health, calls the spike in cases among children “very worrisome.”

He noted that over 400 U.S. children have died of COVID-19 since the pandemic began. “And right now we have almost 2,000 kids in the hospital, many of them in ICU, some of them under the age of 4,” Collins told Fox News on Sunday.

Health experts believe adults who have not gotten their shots are contributing to the surge among grownups and children alike. It has been especially bad in places with lower vaccination rates, such as parts of the South.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on August 20, 2021, 12:51:07 PM

Quote from: MUfan12 on August 20, 2021, 12:29:03 PM

Got several on. Gotta cover the eyes, ears, and junk too. Can't be too careful with these variants.

The Loki variants.  Need the Time Variance Authority on the case.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on August 20, 2021, 01:01:13 PM

Quote from: MUfan12 on August 20, 2021, 12:29:03 PM

Got several on. Gotta cover the eyes, ears, and junk too. Can't be too careful with these variants.

People wear sunglasses when it is bright to protect their eyes.

Earplugs or earmuffs in loud environments.

Sunscreen to avoid sunburn.

A cup when playing sports to protect their junk.

Winter coats when it is frigid.

Raincoats when it is raining.

Helmets when biking.

Boots to keep their feet warm and dry.  Wellies when working on the farm.

Bug spray when there are mosquitoes about.

Use ever more elaborate passwords at work and at home to avoid being hacked.

A piece of cloth is somehow an imposition.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 20, 2021, 01:26:19 PM

Quote from: tower912 on August 20, 2021, 01:01:13 PM

People where sunglasses when it is bright to protect their eyes.

Earplugs or earmuffs in loud environments.

Sunscreen to avoid sunburn.

A cup when playing sports to protect their junk.

Winter coats when it is frigid.

Raincoats when it is raining.

Helmets when biking.

Boots to keep their feet warm and dry.  Wellies when working on the farm.

Bug spray when there are mosquitoes about.

Use ever more elaborate passwords at work and at home to avoid being hacked.

A piece of cloth is somehow an imposition.

Could you get more annoying with your constant preaching?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on August 20, 2021, 01:39:11 PM

Kettle

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 20, 2021, 01:39:47 PM

Quote from: tower912 on August 20, 2021, 01:39:11 PM

Kettle

Sure.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on August 20, 2021, 04:46:40 PM

COVID patients in the Orlando area are using up so much liquid oxygen that the city has declared a water emergency and is asking residents to slash their consumption (liquid oxygen is used to treat water, but they're running out).

https://www.wesh.com/article/orlando-mayor-to-hold-newser-on-unprecedented-event-requiring-community-assistance/37359831

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 20, 2021, 11:29:32 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 20, 2021, 01:26:19 PM

Could you get more annoying with your constant preaching?

Oooh, Mr. Generic seems to be annoyed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 20, 2021, 11:58:27 PM

Quote from: Jockey on August 20, 2021, 11:29:32 PM

Oooh, Mr. Generic seems to be annoyed.

Says the guys with a Canadian flag as his avatar but who hasn’t left Racine County in 40 years.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 21, 2021, 05:52:46 AM

Quote from: tower912 on August 20, 2021, 01:01:13 PM

People wear sunglasses when it is bright to protect their eyes.

Earplugs or earmuffs in loud environments.

Sunscreen to avoid sunburn.

A cup when playing sports to protect their junk.

Winter coats when it is frigid.

Raincoats when it is raining.

Helmets when biking.

Boots to keep their feet warm and dry.  Wellies when working on the farm.

Bug spray when there are mosquitoes about.

Use ever more elaborate passwords at fwork and at home to avoid being hacked.

A piece of cloth is somehow a pacifier.

Hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 21, 2021, 07:33:07 AM

As of Aug. 9, the CDC said 8,054 breakthrough cases across the United States led to hospitalization or death. And that was nearly two weeks ago. Likely significantly more by now, and getting worse.

In other words ...

It's not "over," even for the vaccinated. And it obviously is not just a matter of "personal choice" or "freedom." It can be a matter of life or death.

If "all lives matter," as some love to snark, then get vaccinated, and wear a mask when in public and indoors.

Nobody's telling you to stay home (yet, anyway). But if you won't do those two very small things to protect yourselves, your own loved ones and your fellow Americans, stay the eff home.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on August 21, 2021, 07:37:56 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 21, 2021, 05:52:46 AM

Hey?

Should have added floss, fluoride, and keto.    Pacifiers all.    aina

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 21, 2021, 07:47:33 AM

Quote from: MU82 on August 21, 2021, 07:33:07 AM

As of Aug. 9, the CDC said 8,054 breakthrough cases across the United States led to hospitalization or death. And that was nearly two weeks ago. Likely significantly more by now, and getting worse.

In other words ...

It's not "over," even for the vaccinated. And it obviously is not just a matter of "personal choice" or "freedom." It can be a matter of life or death.

If "all lives matter," as some love to snark, then get vaccinated, and wear a mask when in public and indoors.

Nobody's telling you to stay home (yet, anyway). But if you won't do those two very small things to protect yourselves, your own loved ones and your fellow Americans, stay the eff home.

160,000,000 vaccinated. 8,000 deaths. So that means.005% of those vaccinated have died of Covid.

It’s over for the vaccinated.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on August 21, 2021, 07:50:19 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 21, 2021, 07:47:33 AM

160,000,000 vaccinated. 8,000 deaths. So that means.005% of those vaccinated have died of Covid.

It’s over for the vaccinated.

Plus, hospitalizations OR death. Not all 8k died. So even lower %

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 21, 2021, 07:53:53 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on August 21, 2021, 07:50:19 AM

Plus, hospitalizations OR death. Not all 8k died. So even lower %

Good catch!

No one ever advocated that vaccinations were a 100% prevention of death anyway. So citing stats like that is just fear-mongering nonsense.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on August 21, 2021, 08:04:53 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 21, 2021, 07:47:33 AM

160,000,000 vaccinated. 8,000 deaths. So that means.005% of those vaccinated have died of Covid.

It’s over for the vaccinated.

This type of statement is as moronic as those that were saying (early on) that only 50,000 out of 333,000,000 have died from COVID, which means that only 0.015% of people had died of COVID. Using the entire population as a basis, when the entire population had not been exposed is misleading, and inaccurate. I (and others) called those deniers out when they used misleading/inaccurate statistics, and will point it out when other sides do so as well.

We are early on in the vaccination phase, vaccinated people are ending up in hospitals, with permanent damage to their body, even if they do not die. Look at the brain scans of even those with moderate infections. This number will grow as the vaccine continues to wane. The 8,000 number is also from an incomplete data set.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on August 21, 2021, 08:08:02 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 20, 2021, 12:48:20 PM

Good. And while you are at it, get every vaccine hesitant moron you know vaxxed so that we can stop wearing them asap. Thank you for your service.

  yeah!!  yeah!!  and the ones who remain defiant, taze em and put them in an encampment until they succumb.  threaten them with harvesting their organs, never seeing their family...hell, ask xi how it's done.  while you sit eating ice cream with your braindead hero jb46.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 21, 2021, 08:09:11 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 21, 2021, 07:53:53 AM

Good catch!

No one ever advocated that vaccinations were a 100% prevention of death anyway. So citing stats like that is just fear-mongering nonsense.

Cool. The 9 fully vaccinated nurses at Charlotte's children's hospital who are now hospitalized will be relieved to know that it's over.

Cases that are severe enough to result in hospitalizations -- and quite possibly bouts of long Covid that will disable folks for months or more -- meh ... who cares? If they ain't dyin', they ain't tryin'.

The trend also obviously suggests it's over, because it's not as if America went from a handful of breakthrough cases to 8,000 in just a few weeks' time.

And the new variants that are forming because people won't get vaccinated and mask up ... nomatta.

You're right, Sultan, all lives don't matter. Congrats - you win!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 21, 2021, 08:14:06 AM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on August 21, 2021, 08:08:02 AM

  yeah!!  yeah!!  and the ones who remain defiant, taze em and put them in an encampment until they succumb.  threaten them with harvesting their organs, never seeing their family...hell, ask xi how it's done.  while you sit eating ice cream with your braindead hero jb46.   

First, obviously, this is even more rocket than usual for you. Why didn't you just suggest another one of your non-vetted "cures" for COVID-19?

But seriously, sir ... what does the ALM in your name stand for?

Do ALL LIVES MATTER to you, or only if you aren't approached with the heinous task of having to wear a small piece of cloth on your face when indoors in public?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on August 21, 2021, 08:25:52 AM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on August 21, 2021, 08:08:02 AM

  yeah!!  yeah!!  and the ones who remain defiant, taze em and put them in an encampment until they succumb.  threaten them with harvesting their organs, never seeing their family...hell, ask xi how it's done.  while you sit eating ice cream with your braindead hero jb46.   

I agree with this analysis

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 21, 2021, 08:33:29 AM

Quote from: forgetful on August 21, 2021, 08:04:53 AM

This type of statement is as moronic as those that were saying (early on) that only 50,000 out of 333,000,000 have died from COVID, which means that only 0.015% of people had died of COVID. Using the entire population as a basis, when the entire population had not been exposed is misleading, and inaccurate. I (and others) called those deniers out when they used misleading/inaccurate statistics, and will point it out when other sides do so as well.

We are early on in the vaccination phase, vaccinated people are ending up in hospitals, with permanent damage to their body, even if they do not die. Look at the brain scans of even those with moderate infections. This number will grow as the vaccine continues to wane. The 8,000 number is also from an incomplete data set.

<yawn>

It’s over for the vaccinated. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 21, 2021, 08:35:06 AM

Quote from: MU82 on August 21, 2021, 08:09:11 AM

Cool. The 9 fully vaccinated nurses at Charlotte's children's hospital who are now hospitalized will be relieved to know that it's over.

Cases that are severe enough to result in hospitalizations -- and quite possibly bouts of long Covid that will disable folks for months or more -- meh ... who cares? If they ain't dyin', they ain't tryin'.

The trend also obviously suggests it's over, because it's not as if America went from a handful of breakthrough cases to 8,000 in just a few weeks' time.

And the new variants that are forming because people won't get vaccinated and mask up ... nomatta.

You're right, Sultan, all lives don't matter. Congrats - you win!

I would have thought Marquette would have done a better job teaching you math and probabilities.

Guess it didn’t take.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on August 21, 2021, 09:19:52 AM

Yesterday I heard a doctor on the radio from far southern Illinois. He said the nearest ICU beds available are two hours away.
This morning on a neighbors FB page, she was tagged in a post by someone informing her about taking a mutual friend to a medical center in Appleton for a possible heart issue. There are no beds available in the hospital so this person’s  current ‘room’ is the ER.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 21, 2021, 09:35:55 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 20, 2021, 11:58:27 PM

Says the guys with a Canadian flag as his avatar but who hasn’t left Racine County in 40 years.

One word: kringles

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 21, 2021, 09:47:18 AM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on August 21, 2021, 08:08:02 AM

  yeah!!  yeah!!  and the ones who remain defiant, taze em and put them in an encampment until they succumb.  threaten them with harvesting their organs, never seeing their family...hell, ask xi how it's done.  while you sit eating ice cream with your braindead hero jb46.   

Well, you can't fix stupid, but I am more than willing to let people remain unvaccinated. They can enjoy their freedom from the cure. However, they are not allowed to:

* Work in an office with other people. Only from home.
* Take a plane or any other method of mass transportation where they can infect others. They have the complete freedom of their car, however.
* Enter a public place, whether it be a ball game or a retail location including a grocery store. All their freedom can be delivered to their home. Jeff Bezos says thanks.
* Visit a doctor except via a televisit. They are prohibited from infecting our health care workers.
* When they do get sick through their inevitable mass gatherings amongst themselves to "own the libs", the are at the back of the line: vaccinated people will be prioritized before them for all care. No beds? Too bad for them
* Sorry, their medical bills will not be paid for by insurance since they couldn't be bothered to take even the minimal step to protect themselves and their fellow citizens.

We'll only resort to tasing them if they can't follow the rules.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on August 21, 2021, 10:00:52 AM

U of Virginia disenrolls 238 students for not getting vaccinated.  Though only 49 had registered for classes this fall.

https://www.pilotonline.com/news/education/vp-nw-disenroll-students-uva-20210819-m63bgxt2ubcgzbgemvet5owlai-story.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 21, 2021, 10:05:31 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 21, 2021, 08:33:29 AM

<yawn>

It’s over for the vaccinated.

Hopefully you don't need to use the hospital in the next couple of months.

It's okay to understand this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 21, 2021, 11:10:51 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on August 21, 2021, 10:05:31 AM

Hopefully you don't need to use the hospital in the next couple of months.

It's okay to understand this.

Understand that selfish dumbf*cks are taking up room in the hospitals?  I know that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 21, 2021, 11:12:38 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 20, 2021, 11:58:27 PM

Says the guys with a Canadian flag as his avatar but who hasn’t left Racine County in 40 years.

Other than the half dozen vacations every year.  You seem a little sensitive.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on August 21, 2021, 04:31:52 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 21, 2021, 09:47:18 AM

Well, you can't fix stupid, but I am more than willing to let people remain unvaccinated. They can enjoy their freedom from the cure. However, they are not allowed to:

* Work in an office with other people. Only from home.
* Take a plane or any other method of mass transportation where they can infect others. They have the complete freedom of their car, however.
* Enter a public place, whether it be a ball game or a retail location including a grocery store. All their freedom can be delivered to their home. Jeff Bezos says thanks.
* Visit a doctor except via a televisit. They are prohibited from infecting our health care workers.
* When they do get sick through their inevitable mass gatherings amongst themselves to "own the libs", the are at the back of the line: vaccinated people will be prioritized before them for all care. No beds? Too bad for them
* Sorry, their medical bills will not be paid for by insurance since they couldn't be bothered to take even the minimal step to protect themselves and their fellow citizens.

We'll only resort to tasing them if they can't follow the rules.

  come on adolf!  you really struggle outside of the box, but  "freedom from the cure??  so now you "experts" are claiming the vaccine "cures" us of the virus??  what about those who've already had the virus?   

   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jsglow on August 21, 2021, 06:20:49 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on August 21, 2021, 07:50:19 AM

Plus, hospitalizations OR death. Not all 8k died. So even lower %

We've gotten exceptionally bad at relative risk assessment.  There will always be cases, and a handful of hospitalizations and even fewer deaths (approximately 1,200 as of today). That doesn't mean it isn't largely 'over' in the current environment for the fully vaccinated.  Of course that could change.  But that's where we are today with 160MM folks fully vaxxed.

To that end, I drove my car today. I determined that the risk of a fatal accident was low enough. I'm an excellent driver, doncha know.  I wonder if others are making different choices. I'll bet not; even the crappy drivers.  Maybe they're just virtue signaling instead?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on August 21, 2021, 07:36:39 PM

Jesse Jackson and his wife just hospitalized with COVID.

Both vaccinated back in January.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/21/us/rev-jesse-jackson-wife-hospitalized-coronavirus/index.html
 (https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/21/us/rev-jesse-jackson-wife-hospitalized-coronavirus/index.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on August 21, 2021, 07:51:14 PM

Quote from: forgetful on August 21, 2021, 07:36:39 PM

Jesse Jackson and his wife just hospitalized with COVID.

Both vaccinated back in January.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/21/us/rev-jesse-jackson-wife-hospitalized-coronavirus/index.html
 (https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/21/us/rev-jesse-jackson-wife-hospitalized-coronavirus/index.html)

Someone let them know it’s over

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on August 21, 2021, 08:09:56 PM

It’s over for this guy.

Phil Valentine, conservative radio host and vaccine skeptic, dies of COVID-19

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/phil-valentine-dies-covid-conservative-radio-host-vaccine-skeptic/

Phil Valentine, a conservative radio talk show host who was a vaccine skeptic and disagreed with mask mandates up until he was diagnosed with COVID-19 last month, has died at age 61.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 21, 2021, 08:36:33 PM

Quote from: jsglow on August 21, 2021, 06:20:49 PM

We've gotten exceptionally bad at relative risk assessment.  There will always be cases, and a handful of hospitalizations and even fewer deaths (approximately 1,200 as of today). That doesn't mean it isn't largely 'over' in the current environment for the fully vaccinated.  Of course that could change.  But that's where we are today with 160MM folks fully vaxxed.

Glow I agree with you with one exception.  As long as we are stressing the hospital systems (and in Orlando water services), this unfortunately isn’t over.

It weighs too heavily on people’s behavior.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 21, 2021, 11:38:08 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on August 01, 2021, 09:32:34 PM

Phil Valentine dead yet?

Ope, he did now.

https://twitter.com/RollingStone/status/1429205843275304961?s=19

He won his stupid prize.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 21, 2021, 11:41:51 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 21, 2021, 11:10:51 AM

Understand that selfish dumbf*cks are taking up room in the hospitals?  I know that.

Right.  So it's not over.  Those people affect us all.  So while yes, the vaccinated won't die from covid, they may die because of full hospital beds. 

My friends grandmother had to be seen in the hallway of a hospital two days ago because there is no more room.

So it's NOT over for the vaccinated.  This was always the concern.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 22, 2021, 01:42:08 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on August 21, 2021, 11:41:51 PM

Right.  So it's not over.  Those people affect us all.  So while yes, the vaccinated won't die from covid, they may die because of full hospital beds. 

My friends grandmother had to be seen in the hallway of a hospital two days ago because there is no more room.

So it's NOT over for the vaccinated.  This was always the concern.

When I say it’s over, I mean with the immediate impact of Covid illness.

Didn’t think I had to explain what I was obviously referencing.

You and forgetful make a cute, fearmongering pair. Too bad neither one of you understand statistics.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 22, 2021, 07:54:21 AM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on August 21, 2021, 04:31:52 PM

  come on adolf!  you really struggle outside of the box, but  "freedom from the cure??  so now you "experts" are claiming the vaccine "cures" us of the virus??  what about those who've already had the virus?   

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 21, 2021, 09:47:18 AM

Well, you can't fix stupid

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jsglow on August 22, 2021, 09:19:47 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 21, 2021, 08:36:33 PM

Glow I agree with you with one exception.  As long as we are stressing the hospital systems (and in Orlando water services), this unfortunately isn’t over.

It weighs too heavily on people’s behavior.

Fair enough.  But the follow-up is what should the typical vaxxed person do about it?  Hide in the basement?  The reality is there isn't anything I can do about it except take modest, reasonable mitigation steps. And the societal price of acting like there is no solution to our problem (meaning full lockdowns like in May '20) is a price too great to pay.

Unfortunately, unvaxxed folks will continue to get the disease and far too many will pass.  And do note that I'm a proponent of the 'being unvaxxed isn't a protected class' notion.  So I'm totally okay with limitations on behavior such as those announced by Summerfest recently. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 22, 2021, 09:36:08 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 22, 2021, 01:42:08 AM

When I say it’s over, I mean with the immediate impact of Covid illness.

Didn’t think I had to explain what I was obviously referencing.

You and forgetful make a cute, fearmongering pair. Too bad neither one of you understand statistics.

Ah, so you didn't mean what you said, and we were all left here to figure out what you REALLY meant. 

I'm not a fearmonger.  I have been basically right about this thing since March 2020.  As I said yesterday, we are back at square one with WHY this virus is so dangerous.  Full hospitals and exhausted health care professionals.  Personally, I think they should start turning away unvaccinated Covid patients at hospitals.  Because you know, "it's just a bit of the flu".

Is it over for you if you've been vaccinated?  As long as you don't need a hospital bed. 

Saying forgetful and I don't understand statistics is the cherry on top of your post. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 22, 2021, 10:13:57 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on August 22, 2021, 09:36:08 AM

Ah, so you didn't mean what you said, and we were all left here to figure out what you REALLY meant. 

I'm not a fearmonger.  I have been basically right about this thing since March 2020.  As I said yesterday, we are back at square one with WHY this virus is so dangerous.  Full hospitals and exhausted health care professionals.  Personally, I think they should start turning away unvaccinated Covid patients at hospitals.  Because you know, "it's just a bit of the flu".

Is it over for you if you've been vaccinated?  As long as you don't need a hospital bed. 

Saying forgetful and I don't understand statistics is the cherry on top of your post. 

It’s been clear what I meant. Your intellectual dishonesty attributed a different meaning.

And you don’t understand stats. Sorry.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 22, 2021, 10:22:23 AM

Quote from: jsglow on August 22, 2021, 09:19:47 AM

Fair enough.  But the follow-up is what should the typical vaxxed person do about it?  Hide in the basement?  The reality is there isn't anything I can do about it except take modest, reasonable mitigation steps. And the societal price of acting like there is no solution to our problem (meaning full lockdowns like in May '20) is a price too great to pay.

Unfortunately, unvaxxed folks will continue to get the disease and far too many will pass.  And do note that I'm a proponent of the 'being unvaxxed isn't a protected class' notion.  So I'm totally okay with limitations on behavior such as those announced by Summerfest recently.

Clearly we all can do the 1:1 things you when the opportunity presents itself. I don’t think anyone is actually suggesting what you bring up in your first sentence. 

Beyond that I think the latter is what we need to do— make it known that we support common sense limitations on those infringing on our ability to put this behind us. Ensure our leaders don’t restrict the ability for businesses or communities to implement them if they feel it’s necessary.  Finally support those who are putting mitigating factors in place and set an example.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 22, 2021, 10:50:50 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 22, 2021, 10:22:23 AM

Beyond that I think the latter is what we need to do— make it known that we support common sense limitations on those infringing on our ability to put this behind us. Ensure our leaders don’t restrict the ability for businesses or communities to implement them if they feel it’s necessary.  Finally support those who are putting mitigating factors in place and set an example.

I agree with all you say.

The problem is that we have one party full of people who not only take no responsibility for themselves, but actively push policies to kill people. We are talking tens of millions of people. Until that problem is solved, this is not over.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on August 22, 2021, 11:01:30 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 22, 2021, 07:54:21 AM

Great!  Never heard that one before…you old guys are cute when you use old worn out sayings when you want to avoid backing up your week knee’d bullchit

Even fluff and glow are closer to right than you fear mongering jb46’ers. Time for your oat meal and nap

btw, whatever happened to the influenza??

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 22, 2021, 11:35:51 AM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on August 22, 2021, 11:01:30 AM

Great!  Never heard that one before…you old guys are cute when you use old worn out sayings when you want to avoid backing up your week knee’d bullchit

Even fluff and glow are closer to right than you fear mongering jb46’ers. Time for your oat meal and nap

btw, whatever happened to the influenza??

This is confusing on more dimensions than I can even count.

But, sure, I give up: you are right, this is just like Nazi Germany. Sorry I didn't see that before. Thanks for sharing your wisdom.

Could you also share some of your "invormectin"?
.
.
.
I'll bet smallpox is really sad the GQP wasn't in charge back in the day.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on August 22, 2021, 01:16:38 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 22, 2021, 11:35:51 AM

This is confusing on more dimensions than I can even count.

But, sure, I give up: you are right, this is just like Nazi Germany. Sorry I didn't see that before. Thanks for sharing your wisdom.

Could you also share some of your "invormectin"?
.
.
.
I'll bet smallpox is really sad the GQP wasn't in charge back in the day.

There is little doubt we’d still have smallpox and polio and numerous other diseases still around had social media been around when they were eradicated.

I have to go take my nap but first I’m changing 45’s diaper

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 22, 2021, 01:35:44 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on August 22, 2021, 11:01:30 AM

Great!  Never heard that one before…you old guys are cute when you use old worn out sayings when you want to avoid backing up your week knee’d bullchit

Even fluff and glow are closer to right than you fear mongering jb46’ers. Time for your oat meal and nap

btw, whatever happened to the influenza??

(https://scontent-atl3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/240395475_10226244075465346_5186757927543724251_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=FwqFZ8Lwi9UAX8qdhcP&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-2.xx&oh=e58d4e897b366ebd17afb4bcce3f73e0&oe=61488E80)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 22, 2021, 02:33:30 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 22, 2021, 10:13:57 AM

It’s been clear what I meant. Your intellectual dishonesty attributed a different meaning.

And you don’t understand stats. Sorry.

To you.  I'm not the only one here calling BS.  Next  time say what you mean instead of some broad statement like, "It's over for the vaccinated".

And you're right, I don't understand anything.  Send help from the ivory tower.

Or, just stop being such a cockbag to everyone.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: real chili 83 on August 22, 2021, 05:32:43 PM

All class ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Wokey wokey!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on August 22, 2021, 05:48:27 PM

Quote from: real chili 83 on August 22, 2021, 05:32:43 PM

All class ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Wokey wokey!

Hello, Mr. Pot. I see you've met Mr. Kettle.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: real chili 83 on August 22, 2021, 06:35:45 PM

Gosh, that, coming from you, really hurts.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on August 22, 2021, 07:44:45 PM

We’re one more spike of name calling pot shots from another COVID thread lockdown

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 22, 2021, 08:22:32 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on August 22, 2021, 09:36:08 AM

Ah, so you didn't mean what you said, and we were all left here to figure out what you REALLY meant. 

I'm not a fearmonger.  I have been basically right about this thing since March 2020.  As I said yesterday, we are back at square one with WHY this virus is so dangerous.  Full hospitals and exhausted health care professionals.  Personally, I think they should start turning away unvaccinated Covid patients at hospitals.  Because you know, "it's just a bit of the flu".

Is it over for you if you've been vaccinated?  As long as you don't need a hospital bed. 

Saying forgetful and I don't understand statistics is the cherry on top of your post.

No doubt hospitals are full.  They’re always full, what % of beds are currently taken up by Covid patients is the more important question.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 22, 2021, 08:25:06 PM

Quote from: forgetful on August 21, 2021, 07:36:39 PM

Jesse Jackson and his wife just hospitalized with COVID.

Both vaccinated back in January.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/21/us/rev-jesse-jackson-wife-hospitalized-coronavirus/index.html
 (https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/21/us/rev-jesse-jackson-wife-hospitalized-coronavirus/index.html)

Did they get both doses?  Heard on radio JJ only got one of Pfizer but have a hard time believing he wouldn’t get the second.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on August 22, 2021, 08:33:51 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 22, 2021, 08:25:06 PM

Did they get both doses?  Heard on radio JJ only got one of Pfizer but have a hard time believing he wouldn’t get the second.

No way of knowing 100%, but he was photographed getting the vaccine, and has been an advocate for vaccination amongst African Americans. Speculating he didn't get the 2nd dose would be inconsistent with all reporting and his stance on the issue.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on August 22, 2021, 08:45:58 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 22, 2021, 08:22:32 PM

No doubt hospitals are full.  They’re always full, what % of beds are currently taken up by Covid patients is the more important question.

Hospitals are always full?

Source?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on August 22, 2021, 08:49:57 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 22, 2021, 08:22:32 PM

No doubt hospitals are full.  They’re always full, what % of beds are currently taken up by Covid patients is the more important question.

Uhhhh...

https://www.statista.com/statistics/185904/hospital-occupancy-rate-in-the-us-since-2001/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 22, 2021, 08:59:10 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on August 22, 2021, 08:49:57 PM

Uhhhh...

https://www.statista.com/statistics/185904/hospital-occupancy-rate-in-the-us-since-2001/

Uhhh, didn’t answer my question. 

Sorry, when I say full I didn’t mean 100% full everyday of every year.  But go to any ICU in any a metro area and their ICUs/drop down units are always running 80%+ capacity.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on August 22, 2021, 09:05:18 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 22, 2021, 08:59:10 PM

Uhhh, didn’t answer my question. 

Sorry, when I say full I didn’t mean 100% full everyday of every year.  But go to any ICU in any a metro area and their ICUs/drop down units are always running 80%+ capacity.

Citation needed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on August 22, 2021, 09:07:07 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 22, 2021, 08:59:10 PM

Uhhh, didn’t answer my question. 

If you want to know, 20-30% of all ICU beds in hard hit areas right now are strictly occupied by COVID patients.

There is never, ever, such high usage for a single illness. Not even close.

The result is stopping any and all other surgeries. There are gunshot victims being told to wait for surgery, because an ICU bed is not available. I have a friends dad, who needed cancer surgery that would prolong his life, canceled, because no ICU beds available.

That is what happens when 20-30% of all ICU beds are tied up for a single illness. And its not old people now. It is much younger. There was a couple in our neighborhood, both low 30's, both fully vaccinated in May, both were in the ICU and barely made it. The church had to rally together to care for their two young kids (no family around) for the 2-weeks their parents were on ventilators.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on August 22, 2021, 09:15:29 PM

COVID-19 hospitalizations surged past 15,000 in Florida on Tuesday with more than 3,000 people requiring intensive care, setting another record as pandemic-related patients continue to fill beds, according to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.
The federal agency reported 15,169 inpatient beds in use for COVID-19 in Florida, representing about 27% of patients at the 231 hospitals that reported data.
HHS showed 3,050 intensive-care beds in use for COVID-19 patients, making up 47% of total ICU beds at reporting hospitals

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/coronavirus/os-ne-coronavirus-record-hospitalizations-20210810-bn6sudypfnhbxigie43hjxd3oy-story.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 22, 2021, 09:18:24 PM

Quote from: forgetful on August 22, 2021, 09:07:07 PM

If you want to know, 20-30% of all ICU beds in hard hit areas right now are strictly occupied by COVID patients.

There is never, ever, such high usage for a single illness. Not even close.

The result is stopping any and all other surgeries. There are gunshot victims being told to wait for surgery, because an ICU bed is not available. I have a friends dad, who needed cancer surgery that would prolong his life, canceled, because no ICU beds available.

That is what happens when 20-30% of all ICU beds are tied up for a single illness. And its not old people now. It is much younger. There was a couple in our neighborhood, both low 30's, both fully vaccinated in May, both were in the ICU and barely made it. The church had to rally together to care for their two young kids (no family around) for the 2-weeks their parents were on ventilators.

Ya the 20-30% is what Wisconsin is seeing, probably a little lower. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 22, 2021, 09:20:35 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on August 22, 2021, 09:05:18 PM

Citation needed.

https://www.ruralhealthresearch.org/mirror/13/1302/surge-capacity.pdf

Looks at difference between rural and urban.  Not a perfect look since they looked at licensed beds rather then the more realistic number of staffed beds but even if looking at licensed beds average ICU capacity is about 70.  Couldn’t find anything on staffed beds but would guess it be pretty close to the 80%.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on August 22, 2021, 09:26:06 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on August 22, 2021, 09:15:29 PM

COVID-19 hospitalizations surged past 15,000 in Florida on Tuesday with more than 3,000 people requiring intensive care, setting another record as pandemic-related patients continue to fill beds, according to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.
The federal agency reported 15,169 inpatient beds in use for COVID-19 in Florida, representing about 27% of patients at the 231 hospitals that reported data.
HHS showed 3,050 intensive-care beds in use for COVID-19 patients, making up 47% of total ICU beds at reporting hospitals

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/coronavirus/os-ne-coronavirus-record-hospitalizations-20210810-bn6sudypfnhbxigie43hjxd3oy-story.html

Thanks, my numbers were general values I'd seen recently for some southern states. Things have gotten worse though. Found a link (but apparently not available to others) that shows southern states are now in the 30-40+% range for ICU beds.

Sorry for incorrect values in my first post.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on August 22, 2021, 09:34:21 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on August 22, 2021, 09:20:35 PM

https://www.ruralhealthresearch.org/mirror/13/1302/surge-capacity.pdf

Looks at difference between rural and urban.  Not a perfect look since they looked at licensed beds rather then the more realistic number of staffed beds but even if looking at licensed beds average ICU capacity is about 70.  Couldn’t find anything on staffed beds but would guess it be pretty close to the 80%.

From Appendix 2: 2018 (or most recent) ICU weighted occupancy rates for rural and urban hospitals:

Rural: 45%
Urban: 65%

Not sure if this is what you intended, but this doesn't seem to support your claim that either hospitals or ICUs are always full, or even running at 80% capacity.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 22, 2021, 09:46:01 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on August 22, 2021, 09:34:21 PM

From Appendix 2: 2018 (or most recent) ICU weighted occupancy rates for rural and urban hospitals:

Rural: 45%
Urban: 65%

Not sure if this is what you intended, but this doesn't seem to support your claim that either hospitals or ICUs are always full, or even running at 80% capacity.

Not sure if it’s what I intended?  It what I said in the original post with 80% capacity in Urban areas was literally what I said.  You asked for a citation.  I sent you the one I was referencing but explained the difference between licensed and staffed beds.  It’s exactly what I intended.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on August 22, 2021, 09:47:04 PM

https://covariants.org/variants/21A.Delta (https://covariants.org/variants/21A.Delta)

Neat little site showing all the genetic characteristics of different variants and their prevalence by country.

Kind of crazy to see how Delta quickly dominated as the predominant variant across the globe.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 23, 2021, 08:38:11 AM

Quote from: real chili 83 on August 22, 2021, 05:32:43 PM

All class ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Wokey wokey!

????

Is the implication that woke people can't call other people names?  LMAO, dumbass.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: real chili 83 on August 23, 2021, 08:39:19 AM

Par for the course ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 23, 2021, 08:42:06 AM

Quote from: real chili 83 on August 23, 2021, 08:39:19 AM

Par for the course ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Your inability to understand simple concepts?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: real chili 83 on August 23, 2021, 08:49:31 AM

LOL.  ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 23, 2021, 10:00:06 AM

Quote from: real chili 83 on August 22, 2021, 05:32:43 PM

All class ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Wokey wokey!

Complete lack of self-awareness? Raging hypocrite? Just plain dumb?

You're starting to make me think it is all three.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: real chili 83 on August 23, 2021, 10:08:04 AM

You too? ^^^^^^^^^

Resort to name calling, cause that's all you have left in the tank?

This should be interesting.  I'll start the popcorn.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on August 23, 2021, 10:15:17 AM

Quote from: real chili 83 on August 23, 2021, 10:08:04 AM

You too? ^^^^^^^^^

Resort to name calling, cause that's all you have left in the tank?

This should be interesting.  I'll start the popcorn.

Step 1: Come here and refer to others as "wokey wokey."
Step 2: Whine about namecalling
Step 3:
(https://miro.medium.com/max/400/1*1_NT6tuqoA9Siy0gn1clfw.gif)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on August 23, 2021, 10:16:31 AM

Delta surge has peaked.

Drop the dumb mask mandates.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: real chili 83 on August 23, 2021, 10:24:08 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on August 23, 2021, 10:15:17 AM

Step 1: Come here and refer to others as "wokey wokey."
Step 2: Whine about namecalling
Step 3:
(https://miro.medium.com/max/400/1*1_NT6tuqoA9Siy0gn1clfw.gif)

Let me type really slow for you. 

It's not name calling.......Wokey, wokey.  It's calling out the hypocrisy in their behavior (posts) with their name calling.  Clearly, you understand the difference, but since it does not fit a narrative.......

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: lawdog77 on August 23, 2021, 10:33:13 AM

Quote from: Jay Bee on August 23, 2021, 10:16:31 AM

Delta surge has peaked.

Drop the dumb mask mandates.

Tell that to me and my wife, who have it. Our school district had more cases last week then any other week, ever. 900 kids were quarantined last week, but by all means drop the mask mandate. #historyrepeatingitself

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on August 23, 2021, 10:44:35 AM

Quote from: lawdog77 on August 23, 2021, 10:33:13 AM

Tell that to me and my wife, who have it. Our school district had more cases last week then any other week, ever. 900 kids were quarantined last week, but by all means drop the mask mandate. #historyrepeatingitself

I have had COVID and have been fully vaccinated. Why should I be wearing a mask?

How many kids in that school district were seriously ill or died?

“Cases” needs to be put in context.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on August 23, 2021, 10:51:14 AM

Quote from: real chili 83 on August 23, 2021, 10:24:08 AM

Let me type really slow for you. 

I just assume everything about you is slow.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: real chili 83 on August 23, 2021, 10:52:27 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on August 23, 2021, 10:51:14 AM

I just assume everything about you is slow.

Just amazing.  ^^^^^^^^

Maybe not, after all.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on August 23, 2021, 10:53:22 AM

Quote from: Jay Bee on August 23, 2021, 10:44:35 AM

I have had COVID and have been fully vaccinated. Why should I be wearing a mask?

Because you can still spread it?
I actually think many of the new mask mandates aren't necessary, but it's not like there's no reason why so many in the public health realm are recommending it.

Quote

How many kids in that school district were seriously ill or died?

What's the acceptable number?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: lawdog77 on August 23, 2021, 10:56:53 AM

Quote from: Jay Bee on August 23, 2021, 10:44:35 AM

I have had COVID and have been fully vaccinated. Why should I be wearing a mask?

How many kids in that school district were seriously ill or died?

“Cases” needs to be put in context.

Why, because its possible to still get Covid, be contagious, and pass it on.

I ask this seriously, what the hell is so problematic about wearing a mask. When I wear a mask, and am wearing glasses, sometimes my glasses fog up. That's my biggest problem. You?

How about 1? Is that enough for you? 

Wear a mask you kitten.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on August 23, 2021, 10:58:19 AM

Quote from: real chili 83 on August 23, 2021, 10:52:27 AM

Just amazing.  ^^^^^^^^

Maybe not, after all.

Sorry, but when you come here to insult people (have you actually contributed anything to the discussion?), you don't get to cry over your feels getting hurt when people give it back to you.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 23, 2021, 11:00:49 AM

Quote from: real chili 83 on August 23, 2021, 10:08:04 AM

You too? ^^^^^^^^^

Resort to name calling, cause that's all you have left in the tank?

This should be interesting.  I'll start the popcorn.

Again, the guy who rails about others who call people names while simultaneously calling people names. That's either a complete lack of self-awareness, raging hypocrisy, just plain stupidity, or some combination of the three.

Do you have an alternate explanation for this repeated pattern of yours?
 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 23, 2021, 11:06:37 AM

Quote from: lawdog77 on August 23, 2021, 10:56:53 AM

Why, because its possible to still get Covid, be contagious, and pass it on.

I ask this seriously, what the hell is so problematic about wearing a mask. When I wear a mask, and am wearing glasses, sometimes my glasses fog up. That's my biggest problem. You?

How about 1? Is that enough for you? 

Wear a mask you kitten.

The chances of an asymptomatic vaccinated person spreading it to another vaccinated person is pretty slim.  I will wear one when it is required, but there isn't much need to.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: lawdog77 on August 23, 2021, 11:26:48 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 23, 2021, 11:06:37 AM

The chances of an asymptomatic vaccinated person spreading it to another vaccinated person is pretty slim.  I will wear one when it is required, but there isn't much need to.

I'll just put this right here:

And it’s likely that many other instances of possible reinfection go unreported or, worse, undetected. Immunologists usually expect a second infection with the same virus to be milder than the first. If that holds true for most reinfections with the SARS-CoV-2 virus, many reinfected individuals could remain asymptomatic and untested but very much capable of transmitting the virus to others.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: real chili 83 on August 23, 2021, 11:34:38 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 23, 2021, 11:00:49 AM

Again, the guy who rails about others who call people names while simultaneously calling people names. That's either a complete lack of self-awareness, raging hypocrisy, just plain stupidity, or some combination of the three.

Do you have an alternate explanation for this repeated pattern of yours?

TSmith, your behavior is probably the most hypocritical of all....at least in the top three.  Feel free to wear that as your badge of honor. 

Yes, Wokey wokey is purely antagonistic on my part.  It's baiting, and tbh, it's kinda fun to see how this triggers people who claim to be living the true meaning of woke. 

Wokey wokey is all about the hypocrisy that you put on, claiming to be so enlightened, and virtuous, yet resort to calling people "stupid, dumb" etc., anytime someone has even the slightest variation of The Narrative.

You'll continue to call me and others names, and defend that will the greatest of "pride".

I'm about out of popcorn.  Have a nice day.   :D

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 23, 2021, 12:19:52 PM

Quote from: real chili 83 on August 23, 2021, 11:34:38 AM

TSmith, your behavior is probably the most hypocritical of all....at least in the top three.  Feel free to wear that as your badge of honor. 

Yes, Wokey wokey is purely antagonistic on my part.  It's baiting, and tbh, it's kinda fun to see how this triggers people who claim to be living the true meaning of woke. 

Wokey wokey is all about the hypocrisy that you put on, claiming to be so enlightened, and virtuous, yet resort to calling people "stupid, dumb" etc., anytime someone has even the slightest variation of The Narrative.

You'll continue to call me and others names, and defend that will the greatest of "pride".

I'm about out of popcorn.  Have a nice day.   :D

Executive Summary:

Real Chili: Yes, of course I call people names and am proud to do so. But I will continue to call other people that do so hypocritical, even though they never called out others for name calling.


(http://[URL=https://imgbox.com/WDuD7CSQ][IMG]https://images2.imgbox.com/7d/c1/WDuD7CSQ_o.png)[/URL][/img]

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: real chili 83 on August 23, 2021, 12:36:00 PM

Tsmth, that was priceless.  On que and on point.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 23, 2021, 12:40:44 PM

Hate has no home here, aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 23, 2021, 12:56:15 PM

Quote from: real chili 83 on August 23, 2021, 12:36:00 PM

Tsmth, that was priceless.  On que and on point.

I salute your massive cognitive dissonance of being able to proudly admit you are a hypocrite while claiming you are not. It is a gift, sir.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: real chili 83 on August 23, 2021, 01:11:29 PM

Tsmith, I'm actually a rather humble guy.  Just ask people who know me.

It seems that you haven't been able to distinguish the difference between calling out poor behavior, and actual name calling.

Or perhaps you have distinguished it, and won't do so because it doesn't fit The Narrative.

Anyways, I'm out of popcorn, and you and I have wasted enough time on this topic.  That said, isn't that what Scoop is for?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on August 23, 2021, 03:16:31 PM

Quote from: lawdog77 on August 23, 2021, 10:33:13 AM

Tell that to me and my wife, who have it. Our school district had more cases last week then any other week, ever. 900 kids were quarantined last week, but by all means drop the mask mandate. #historyrepeatingitself

Good luck, law dog.  I hope the vaccinations keep your symptoms manageable.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 23, 2021, 03:32:51 PM

Quote from: real chili 83 on August 23, 2021, 01:11:29 PM

Tsmith, I'm actually a rather humble guy.  Just ask people who know me.

It seems that you haven't been able to distinguish the difference between calling out poor behavior, and actual name calling.

Or perhaps you have distinguished it, and won't do so because it doesn't fit The Narrative.

Anyways, I'm out of popcorn, and you and I have wasted enough time on this topic.  That said, isn't that what Scoop is for?

I don't think humble or otherwise has anything to do with it.

You brag about name-calling while in the same breath claiming it isn't actual name calling, while also managing another dig in the very next sentence. Then, you claim people are hypocritical for name-calling.

I'm pretty much left with one or more of the previous explanations.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on August 23, 2021, 04:03:54 PM

Quote from: tower912 on August 23, 2021, 03:16:31 PM

Good luck, law dog.  I hope the vaccinations keep your symptoms manageable.

He’ll be fine

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: lawdog77 on August 23, 2021, 05:25:09 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on August 23, 2021, 04:03:54 PM

He’ll be fine

Thanks for your concern douchebag. One side effect in rare cases is maskaphobia. Hope I don't get that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: lawdog77 on August 23, 2021, 05:28:44 PM

Quote from: tower912 on August 23, 2021, 03:16:31 PM

Good luck, law dog.  I hope the vaccinations keep your symptoms manageable.

Thanks Tower. Day 10 for me, I am feeling a little better but still tightness in the chest. Did lose 10 pounds, so there's that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 23, 2021, 05:37:05 PM

Quote from: lawdog77 on August 23, 2021, 05:28:44 PM

Thanks Tower. Day 10 for me, I am feeling a little better but still tightness in the chest. Did lose 10 pounds, so there's that.

Silver linings. :) Hope you and your family make full and speedy recoveries.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 23, 2021, 05:47:22 PM

Quote from: lawdog77 on August 23, 2021, 05:25:09 PM

Thanks for your concern douchebag. One side effect in rare cases is maskaphobia. Hope I don't get that.

I think he’s heard that a few times.

Glad to hear you are starting to feel better (I don’t want to lose one of the guys I argue with  :)).

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 23, 2021, 06:40:33 PM

Quote from: real chili 83 on August 23, 2021, 11:34:38 AM

TSmith, your behavior is probably the most hypocritical of all....at least in the top three.  Feel free to wear that as your badge of honor. 

Yes, Wokey wokey is purely antagonistic on my part.  It's baiting, and tbh, it's kinda fun to see how this triggers people who claim to be living the true meaning of woke. 

Wokey wokey is all about the hypocrisy that you put on, claiming to be so enlightened, and virtuous, yet resort to calling people "stupid, dumb" etc., anytime someone has even the slightest variation of The Narrative.

You'll continue to call me and others names, and defend that will the greatest of "pride".

I'm about out of popcorn.  Have a nice day.   :D

"I don't understand the meaning of the words I'm using"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: real chili 83 on August 23, 2021, 06:53:40 PM

LOL ^^^^^^^^^^^

Is that the best you can do? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: lawdog77 on August 23, 2021, 06:57:45 PM

Quote from: Jockey on August 23, 2021, 05:47:22 PM

I think he’s heard that a few times.

Glad to hear you are starting to feel better (I don’t want to lose one of the guys I argue with  :)).

Thanks. I dont consider it arguing, but healthy honest discussions. You always seem to be coming from a good place when you make your points.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: lawdog77 on August 23, 2021, 06:58:46 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 23, 2021, 05:37:05 PM

Silver linings. :) Hope you and your family make full and speedy recoveries.

Thank you Charles Anthony Smith.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on August 23, 2021, 07:10:13 PM

Quote from: lawdog77 on August 23, 2021, 05:28:44 PM

Thanks Tower. Day 10 for me, I am feeling a little better but still tightness in the chest. Did lose 10 pounds, so there's that.

How bout the wife, though?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: lawdog77 on August 23, 2021, 07:16:51 PM

Quote from: Jay Bee on August 23, 2021, 07:10:13 PM

How bout the wife, though?

Much worse.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: real chili 83 on August 23, 2021, 07:22:18 PM

Quote from: lawdog77 on August 23, 2021, 07:16:51 PM

Much worse.

Did you say you and spouse are vaccinated too?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: lawdog77 on August 23, 2021, 07:35:22 PM

Quote from: real chili 83 on August 23, 2021, 07:22:18 PM

Did you say you and spouse are vaccinated too?

She had the Pfizer and I had the Johnson and Johnson

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: real chili 83 on August 23, 2021, 07:59:28 PM

Yikes.  Sorry to hear.

I run the pandemic stuff at work.  It feels like last September. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 23, 2021, 08:15:27 PM

Quote from: lawdog77 on August 23, 2021, 06:57:45 PM

Thanks. I dont consider it arguing, but healthy honest discussions. You always seem to be coming from a good place when you make your points.

Thanks, dog. Be well. Best wishes to your wife, as well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jsglow on August 24, 2021, 06:48:22 AM

Hope you and your wife feel better soon, dog.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: dgies9156 on August 24, 2021, 08:36:29 AM

We're going to have to learn to live with the Covid-19 virus floating around. It's doubtful the disease will completely go away. Rather, I suspect it will be like the flu -- ebbing and flowing depending on season and people's habits.

We're not going to solve the problem by taking extreme measures to protect the 20 percent to 30 percent of society so ignorant that they won't get vaccinated. It's folly to assume that we can just shut American life down because a segment of the population doesn't like the idea of vaccination. Instead, we sunset the extraordinary provisions associated with Covid-19.

One big issue is how the government communicates. We've been told we need a booster shot and I'm all in for it. But it would be nice if in a clear, concise format, the government communicates why  we need the booster and what the perceived benefits will be. And why is eight months the prescribed interval?

Clarity and realism will go a long way toward making Covid-19 an afterthought.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 24, 2021, 09:30:16 AM

Quote from: dgies9156 on August 24, 2021, 08:36:29 AM

We're going to have to learn to live with the Covid-19 virus floating around. It's doubtful the disease will completely go away. Rather, I suspect it will be like the flu -- ebbing and flowing depending on season and people's habits.

We're not going to solve the problem by taking extreme measures to protect the 20 percent to 30 percent of society so ignorant that they won't get vaccinated. It's folly to assume that we can just shut American life down because a segment of the population doesn't like the idea of vaccination. Instead, we sunset the extraordinary provisions associated with Covid-19.

One big issue is how the government communicates. We've been told we need a booster shot and I'm all in for it. But it would be nice if in a clear, concise format, the government communicates why  we need the booster and what the perceived benefits will be. And why is eight months the prescribed interval?

Clarity and realism will go a long way toward making Covid-19 an afterthought.

Agree with what you say, but that doesn't fit in a tweet, which is how we govern now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on August 24, 2021, 09:45:08 AM

Quote from: dgies9156 on August 24, 2021, 08:36:29 AM

One big issue is how the government communicates. We've been told we need a booster shot and I'm all in for it. But it would be nice if in a clear, concise format, the government communicates why  we need the booster and what the perceived benefits will be. And why is eight months the prescribed interval?

Clarity and realism will go a long way toward making Covid-19 an afterthought.

Ahem ...
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0818-covid-19-booster-shots.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on August 24, 2021, 10:27:48 AM

Quote from: dgies9156 on August 24, 2021, 08:36:29 AM

We're going to have to learn to live with the Covid-19 virus floating around. It's doubtful the disease will completely go away. Rather, I suspect it will be like the flu -- ebbing and flowing depending on season and people's habits.

We're not going to solve the problem by taking extreme measures to protect the 20 percent to 30 percent of society so ignorant that they won't get vaccinated. It's folly to assume that we can just shut American life down because a segment of the population doesn't like the idea of vaccination. Instead, we sunset the extraordinary provisions associated with Covid-19.

One big issue is how the government communicates. We've been told we need a booster shot and I'm all in for it. But it would be nice if in a clear, concise format, the government communicates why  we need the booster and what the perceived benefits will be. And why is eight months the prescribed interval?

Clarity and realism will go a long way toward making Covid-19 an afterthought.

Define extreme measures

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 24, 2021, 10:49:56 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on August 24, 2021, 09:30:16 AM

Agree with what you say, but that doesn't fit in a tweet, which is how we govern now.

No. It was how we governed from Jan 20, 2017 - Jan 20, 2021.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on August 24, 2021, 10:51:59 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on August 24, 2021, 10:27:48 AM

Define extreme measures

And "shut American life down."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 24, 2021, 11:07:18 AM

Quote from: dgies9156 on August 24, 2021, 08:36:29 AM

We're going to have to learn to live with the Covid-19 virus floating around. It's doubtful the disease will completely go away. Rather, I suspect it will be like the flu -- ebbing and flowing depending on season and people's habits.

We're not going to solve the problem by taking extreme measures to protect the 20 percent to 30 percent of society so ignorant that they won't get vaccinated. It's folly to assume that we can just shut American life down because a segment of the population doesn't like the idea of vaccination. Instead, we sunset the extraordinary provisions associated with Covid-19.

One big issue is how the government communicates. We've been told we need a booster shot and I'm all in for it. But it would be nice if in a clear, concise format, the government communicates why  we need the booster and what the perceived benefits will be. And why is eight months the prescribed interval?

Clarity and realism will go a long way toward making Covid-19 an afterthought.

Politics.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: dgies9156 on August 24, 2021, 11:43:50 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on August 24, 2021, 09:45:08 AM

Ahem ...
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0818-covid-19-booster-shots.html

Typical bureaucratic BS.

Here's the message:

"These vaccinations have been highly effective in preventing and reducing the severity of Covid-19. We urge every American to be vaccinated over time.

"We have evaluated the data from vaccinated Americans and the protection the vaccine affords each of us. We are concerned that after eight months, the protection falls by __._% based on our trials. For that reason, we're advocating that every American get a booster shot.

"We've made a lot of progress but there is much more to be done. We implore every American to get vaccinated!"

The message needs to be identical, from the President of the United States on down to the lowest CDC functionary. Attach a fact sheet if you will, but this is the message. PERIOD!!!!!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 24, 2021, 11:48:36 AM

Quote from: Jockey on August 24, 2021, 10:49:56 AM

No. It was how we governed from Jan 20, 2017 - Jan 20, 2021.

Topper, dis izant politics? Double standard, but watts nu, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 24, 2021, 11:50:54 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 24, 2021, 11:07:18 AM

Politics.

« Last Edit: Today at 11:41:22 AM by mu_hilltopper »

Ha!  Hahaha hahaha.  🤣🤣🤣🤣

Selective enforcement, aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jay Bee on August 24, 2021, 11:55:03 AM

Quote from: lawdog77 on August 23, 2021, 05:25:09 PM

Thanks for your concern douchebag.

This seems like name-calling. Fortunately for you, the rules around here are only applicable to some.

At this point, we’ve hit the worst of the delta surge. Time to stop all the mask silliness. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on August 24, 2021, 12:03:09 PM

Quote from: dgies9156 on August 24, 2021, 11:43:50 AM

Typical bureaucratic BS.

Here's the message:

"These vaccinations have been highly effective in preventing and reducing the severity of Covid-19. We urge every American to be vaccinated over time.

"We have evaluated the data from vaccinated Americans and the protection the vaccine affords each of us. We are concerned that after eight months, the protection falls by __._% based on our trials. For that reason, we're advocating that every American get a booster shot.

"We've made a lot of progress but there is much more to be done. We implore every American to get vaccinated!"

The message needs to be identical, from the President of the United States on down to the lowest CDC functionary. Attach a fact sheet if you will, but this is the message. PERIOD!!!!!!

Did you even read the link? The message there is better, clearer and more concise than what you have here.
Maybe just admit you weren't aware of this messaging before you went and complained about the messaging?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on August 24, 2021, 12:10:36 PM

If you don’t like things get moderated, no one is forcing you to stick around.  Sounds snowflaky

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: dgies9156 on August 24, 2021, 12:24:48 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on August 24, 2021, 10:27:48 AM

Define extreme measures

Forcing people to wear masks. Limiting the number of people in a room via "social distancing." Damn near shutting the economy down in 2020 and threatening to do so again.

My governor has the right idea. Urge people to be vaccinated, open everything up and let individuals decide what steps they want to take. He's been roundly criticized for it but he's basically saying, "Your government is not protecting the stupid's right to be stupid!"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on August 24, 2021, 12:29:12 PM

Quote from: dgies9156 on August 24, 2021, 12:24:48 PM

Forcing people to wear masks. Limiting the number of people in a room via "social distancing." Damn near shutting the economy down in 2020 and threatening to do so again.

My governor has the right idea. Urge people to be vaccinated, open everything up and let individuals decide what steps they want to take. He's been roundly criticized for it but he's basically saying, "Your government is not protecting the stupid's right to be stupid!"

So you don't believe in letting private organizations make their own rules when it comes to their business?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on August 24, 2021, 12:49:05 PM

Quote from: dgies9156 on August 24, 2021, 12:24:48 PM

Forcing people to wear masks. Limiting the number of people in a room via "social distancing." Damn near shutting the economy down in 2020 and threatening to do so again.

My governor has the right idea. Urge people to be vaccinated, open everything up and let individuals decide what steps they want to take. He's been roundly criticized for it but he's basically saying, "Your government is not protecting the stupid's right to be stupid!"

Are you also opposed to extreme laws prohibiting driving under the influence and fraud?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: dgies9156 on August 24, 2021, 12:54:28 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on August 24, 2021, 12:29:12 PM

So you don't believe in letting private organizations make their own rules when it comes to their business?

What private business does, they can do as long as they don't discriminate. If my local grocery mogul wants me to wear a mask in their store, it's their right. If I don't like it, I can shop elsewhere.

Where I have an issue is the government telling me. I get some of their concern before we had an effective vaccine, but now we have a vaccine.

As to the DUI comparison, that's one of the most ridiculous comparisons I've ever heard. If we had a way of effectively preventing DUI before someone got in the car, then, yes, get rid of it. Just make it impossible for an impaired person to drive. We have a way to prevent death and debilitation from Covid-19. It's called vaccination. Get vaccinated and we have no need for masks or social distancing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on August 24, 2021, 12:59:36 PM

Quote from: dgies9156 on August 24, 2021, 12:54:28 PM

What private business does, they can do as long as they don't discriminate. If my local grocery mogul wants me to wear a mask in their store, it's their right. If I don't like it, I can shop elsewhere.

Where I have an issue is the government telling me. I get some of their concern before we had an effective vaccine, but now we have a vaccine.

As to the DUI comparison, that's one of the most ridiculous comparisons I've ever heard. If we had a way of effectively preventing DUI before someone got in the car, then, yes, get rid of it. Just make it impossible for an impaired person to drive. We have a way to prevent death and debilitation from Covid-19. It's called vaccination. Get vaccinated and we have no need for masks or social distancing.

Mandate breathalyzers in cars

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 24, 2021, 01:01:41 PM

The latest vax rates, per NBC:

And here are the American adults who say they’ve already been vaccinated — broken down by demographic group:

All adults: 69 percent

Men: 67 percent

Women: 71 percent

18-34: 63 percent

35-49: 58 percent

50-64: 71 percent

65+: 86 percent

Whites: 66 percent

Blacks: 76 percent

Latinos: 71 percent

Urban residents: 79 percent

Suburban residents: 67 percent

Rural residents: 52 percent

White evangelicals: 59 percent

Democrats: 88 percent

Independents: 60 percent

Republicans: 55 percent

Republicans who support Trump more than party: 46 percent

Republicans who support party more than Trump: 62 percent

Democratic Sanders-Warren voters: 88 percent

Democratic Biden voters: 87 percent

Biden voters in 2020 general election: 91 percent

Trump voters in 2020 general election: 50 percent

White non-college grads: 60 percent

White college grads: 80 percent

Get the unnatural carnal knowledgeing vax you unnatural carnal knowledgeing pretty boys.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 24, 2021, 01:09:00 PM

Quote from: dgies9156 on August 24, 2021, 12:54:28 PM

What private business does, they can do as long as they don't discriminate. If my local grocery mogul wants me to wear a mask in their store, it's their right. If I don't like it, I can shop elsewhere.

Where I have an issue is the government telling me. I get some of their concern before we had an effective vaccine, but now we have a vaccine.

As to the DUI comparison, that's one of the most ridiculous comparisons I've ever heard. If we had a way of effectively preventing DUI before someone got in the car, then, yes, get rid of it. Just make it impossible for an impaired person to drive. We have a way to prevent death and debilitation from Covid-19. It's called vaccination. Get vaccinated and we have no need for masks or social distancing.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


It seems as though your thoughts are geared toward an ideal world where people did the right thing. In this ideal world, I would agree 100% with you. Yes, we have vaccines. But yes we have a subset of the population - white, republican Trump voters who will never do it. Hence, mask mandates, social distancing, vaccination requirements are necessary.

Before you argue my statement, here is a new poll of American adults who say they’ve already been vaccinated — broken down by demographic group:

All adults: 69 percent
Men: 67 percent
Women: 71 percent
18-34: 63 percent
35-49: 58 percent
50-64: 71 percent
65+: 86 percent
Whites: 66 percent
Blacks: 76 percent
Latinos: 71 percent
Urban residents: 79 percent
Suburban residents: 67 percent
Rural residents: 52 percent
White evangelicals: 59 percent
Democrats: 88 percent
Independents: 60 percent
Republicans: 55 percent
Republicans who support Trump more than party: 46 percent
Republicans who support party more than Trump: 62 percent
Democratic Sanders-Warren voters: 88 percent
Democratic Biden voters: 87 percent
Biden voters in 2020 general election: 91 percent
Trump voters in 2020 general election: 50 percent
White non-college grads: 60 percent
White college grads: 80 percent


Edit: You're killin' me, T. Beat me by 8 minutes. :-\

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 24, 2021, 01:13:54 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 24, 2021, 01:01:41 PM

The latest vax rates, per NBC:

And here are the American adults who say they’ve already been vaccinated — broken down by demographic group:

All adults: 69 percent

Men: 67 percent

Women: 71 percent

18-34: 63 percent

35-49: 58 percent

50-64: 71 percent

65+: 86 percent

Whites: 66 percent

Blacks: 76 percent

Latinos: 71 percent

Urban residents: 79 percent

Suburban residents: 67 percent

Rural residents: 52 percent

White evangelicals: 59 percent

Democrats: 88 percent

Independents: 60 percent

Republicans: 55 percent

Republicans who support Trump more than party: 46 percent

Republicans who support party more than Trump: 62 percent

Democratic Sanders-Warren voters: 88 percent

Democratic Biden voters: 87 percent

Biden voters in 2020 general election: 91 percent

Trump voters in 2020 general election: 50 percent

White non-college grads: 60 percent

White college grads: 80 percent

Get the unnatural carnal knowledgeing vax you unnatural carnal knowledgeing pretty boys.

Is this self reported or actually verified numbers?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on August 24, 2021, 01:23:58 PM

Quote from: dgies9156 on August 24, 2021, 12:54:28 PM

As to the DUI comparison, that's one of the most ridiculous comparisons I've ever heard. If we had a way of effectively preventing DUI before someone got in the car, then, yes, get rid of it. Just make it impossible for an impaired person to drive. We have a way to prevent death and debilitation from Covid-19. It's called vaccination. Get vaccinated and we have no need for masks or social distancing.

That time when dgies accidentally called for vaccination mandates.

What about my fraud example? You OK with "Your government is not protecting the stupid's right to be stupid" when that stupid person gets tangled in a pyramid scheme or believes their grandchild is locked up in a Guatemalan jail? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on August 24, 2021, 01:29:40 PM

Quote from: dgies9156 on August 24, 2021, 12:54:28 PM

What private business does, they can do as long as they don't discriminate. If my local grocery mogul wants me to wear a mask in their store, it's their right. If I don't like it, I can shop elsewhere.

Where I have an issue is the government telling me. I get some of their concern before we had an effective vaccine, but now we have a vaccine.

As to the DUI comparison, that's one of the most ridiculous comparisons I've ever heard. If we had a way of effectively preventing DUI before someone got in the car, then, yes, get rid of it. Just make it impossible for an impaired person to drive. We have a way to prevent death and debilitation from Covid-19. It's called vaccination. Get vaccinated and we have no need for masks or social distancing.

So, are you okay if the government mandates vaccines?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: lawdog77 on August 24, 2021, 01:47:17 PM

Quote from: Jockey on August 24, 2021, 01:09:00 PM

Whites: 66 percent
Blacks: 76 percent
Latinos: 71 percent

When did this flip. As of Aug 18, the CDC was showing numbers that African Americans were lagging behind in vaccination %

https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/ (https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/)

and this
https://www.yahoo.com/now/black-people-low-vaccination-rates-150200517.html (https://www.yahoo.com/now/black-people-low-vaccination-rates-150200517.html)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 24, 2021, 01:58:56 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on August 24, 2021, 01:13:54 PM

Is this self reported or actually verified numbers?

I'm guessing self-reported (it was a poll), so yes, grain of salt.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 24, 2021, 02:03:04 PM

All dis chit iz politics, aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 24, 2021, 02:16:37 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 24, 2021, 01:58:56 PM

I'm guessing self-reported (it was a poll), so yes, grain of salt.

The only thing I could find on NBC's website said 1000 likely voters, 600 non-landline.  No other sampling or other demographic info.

Shaker of salt, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: real chili 83 on August 24, 2021, 02:50:48 PM

NM

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: dgies9156 on August 24, 2021, 03:11:47 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on August 24, 2021, 01:23:58 PM

That time when dgies accidentally called for vaccination mandates.

What about my fraud example? You OK with "Your government is not protecting the stupid's right to be stupid" when that stupid person gets tangled in a pyramid scheme or believes their grandchild is locked up in a Guatemalan jail?

Brother Pakuni:

You make me sound like a reactionary conservative. I'm really not, as much as a pragmatist. It's not like personal ethics, where absolute moral values clash with situationalism. Here, I'm declaring this a Dr. Beach-free zone!

This isn't either an ethical or moral issue: It's common sense and therefore I'm less worried about the precedent.

That said, my philosophy for what it's worth is this:

You're right, Your risk!

You can choose to be stupid. But your idiocy has consequences. Like, not being able to enter certain buildings, stores and public places. Like not being able to fly, ride a train or Mass Transit. And, if you're stupid after, say November 1, 2021, then the government should tell the world Medicare and Medicaid won't cover the cost of getting sick from Covid and private insurance can "opt out." of covering Covid-19 illness in non-vaccinated persons.

My governor has opposed vaccine passports. It's a strange hill for him to die on, since it assures the stupid are treated for what they are -- stupid. It means that certain governors who again are threatening dire actions (aka, Illinois) doesn't have to.

The answer is so clear. We spent billions on behalf of all of us. Take advantage of one of the few efficient government programs and GET VACCINATED.

Don't be stupid!

P.S. -- I watch American Greed and see way too much of the fraud for which you address. While I want the perpetrators arrested, there is a part of me that says, "my God, how can someone be so stupid!" My morality says, "you don't steal from the stupid," but you gotta wonder sometimes whether the story is really the story!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 24, 2021, 03:44:24 PM

Quote from: dgies9156 on August 24, 2021, 03:11:47 PM

That said, my philosophy for what it's worth is this:

You're right, Your risk!

You can choose to be stupid. But your idiocy has consequences. Like, not being able to enter certain buildings, stores and public places. Like not being able to fly, ride a train or Mass Transit. And, if you're stupid after, say November 1, 2021, then the government should tell the world Medicare and Medicaid won't cover the cost of getting sick from Covid and private insurance can "opt out." of covering Covid-19 illness in non-vaccinated persons.

My governor has opposed vaccine passports. It's a strange hill for him to die on, since it assures the stupid are treated for what they are -- stupid. It means that certain governors who again are threatening dire actions (aka, Illinois) doesn't have to.

The answer is so clear. We spent billions on behalf of all of us. Take advantage of one of the few efficient government programs and GET VACCINATED.

Don't be stupid!

As a well left of center Lib, I agree.

Free country. Free choices. Deal with the consequences of those choices.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Lens on August 24, 2021, 03:45:06 PM

You lay out a good case DG but so much of what's important is what's not said.  Take DeSantis, he isn't just some crusader for liberty*.  If he was, he be begging people to get vaccinated on their own or wear masks where necessary. Instead he stays quiet on these issues as he knows his base hates to hear about them.  He also stays quiet when supportive press (like Tucker Carlson) introduce vaccine conspiracies.  You can support liberty while also telling Tucker to shut up the vaccines are safe.  His silence makes him complicit.  At least Asa Hutchinson has expressed regret over base appealing policies that have misfired. 


*to say nothing about how anti GOP it is to try and force policy on private enterprise. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: dgies9156 on August 24, 2021, 04:13:28 PM

Quote from: The Lens on August 24, 2021, 03:45:06 PM

You lay out a good case DG but so much of what's important is what's not said.  DeSantis isn't just some crusader for liberty*.  If he was he be begging people to get vaccinated on their own or wear masks where necessary. Instead he stay quiet on these issues that he knows his base hates to hear about.  He also stays quiet when supportive press (like Tucker Carlson) introduce vaccine conspiracies.  You can support liberty while also telling Tucker to shut up the vaccines are safe.  His silence makes him complicit.  At least Asa Hutchinson has expressed regret over base appealing policies that have misfired. 


*to say nothing about how anti GOP it is to try and force policy on private enterprise.

Brother Lens:

Don't know if you live in Florida or not. I do, a good hunk of the year. I actually have heard my Governor advocate for vaccinations. He was a leader in setting the allocation process for "seniors First," because that segment of our population, which is significant (just watch all the errant blinkers on any Florida highway, if you don't believe me), also is the most vulnerable to the disease. You didn't see a whole lot of people under 70 dying in Florida, unless they had underlying conditions.

DeSantis made sure the seniors and folks with underlying medical conditions were 1 and 1A in the line for vaccine. And yes, he pushed it to our citizenry.

He was on television earlier this year (I live in the Palm Beach television market) regularly pushing the vaccine.

I'll admit, I'm not sure Charlie Crist or Nikki Fried (the two Democrats likely to run for governor against DeSantis) would have done any different, other than to shut the state down a la Illinois or New York. But to suggest DeSantis didn't advocate vaccination is wrong. It's something that's coming from outside the state by folks who have an agenda of loathing of anything Florida.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 24, 2021, 04:19:41 PM

What DeSantis also has done, in the finest big-government, appeal-to-the-base way, is undermine the efforts of private businesses that want to protect their employees and customers from a deadly, highly contagious virus - one that is killing Floridians and filling ICU beds.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 24, 2021, 04:24:18 PM

Yeah, "I want you to get vaccinated, but I don't want you to be punished if you don't actually get vaccinated," isn't really a pro-vaccination stance.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on August 24, 2021, 04:42:39 PM

Quote from: dgies9156 on August 24, 2021, 03:11:47 PM

Brother Pakuni:

You make me sound like a reactionary conservative. I'm really not, as much as a pragmatist. It's not like personal ethics, where absolute moral values clash with situationalism. Here, I'm declaring this a Dr. Beach-free zone!

This isn't either an ethical or moral issue: It's common sense and therefore I'm less worried about the precedent.

That said, my philosophy for what it's worth is this:

You're right, Your risk!

You can choose to be stupid. But your idiocy has consequences. Like, not being able to enter certain buildings, stores and public places. Like not being able to fly, ride a train or Mass Transit. And, if you're stupid after, say November 1, 2021, then the government should tell the world Medicare and Medicaid won't cover the cost of getting sick from Covid and private insurance can "opt out." of covering Covid-19 illness in non-vaccinated persons.

My governor has opposed vaccine passports. It's a strange hill for him to die on, since it assures the stupid are treated for what they are -- stupid. It means that certain governors who again are threatening dire actions (aka, Illinois) doesn't have to.

The answer is so clear. We spent billions on behalf of all of us. Take advantage of one of the few efficient government programs and GET VACCINATED.

Don't be stupid!

P.S. -- I watch American Greed and see way too much of the fraud for which you address. While I want the perpetrators arrested, there is a part of me that says, "my God, how can someone be so stupid!" My morality says, "you don't steal from the stupid," but you gotta wonder sometimes whether the story is really the story!

This seems like a 180 from your OP today where you said you didn't want the government telling you what to do.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: dgies9156 on August 24, 2021, 04:54:18 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on August 24, 2021, 04:42:39 PM

This is a 180 from your OP today where you said you didn't want the government telling you what to do or going to extreme measures to contain the virus.

Afraid not, dude. I don't want our government taking preemptive actions against a vaccinated population. I'm rather suggesting you have a choice, but there are consequences of your actions.

I have no problem with the government NOT DOING ANYTHING on either the Covid-19 control restrictions for the stupidly unvaccinated or forcing the vaccination on stupid people. In the case of airlines, for example, let the carriers decide whether or not to carry the unvaccinated or under what conditions. Let the insurance companies decide whether to cover Covid-19 patients who are not vaccinated (you know they won't). Let Publix decide whether to admit the unvaccinated to their stores. Free commercial enterprises from the lawsuits that inevitably will come because you discriminate against idiots.

Frankly, I'm not sure I care because I'm vaccinated and I'm all in on the booster shot. My family all is vaccinated and most of my friends are.

Be stupid if it's your flavor de jour. But don't penalize the smart because the stupid are stupid.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on August 24, 2021, 04:56:11 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on August 24, 2021, 02:16:37 PM

The only thing I could find on NBC's website said 1000 likely voters, 600 non-landline.  No other sampling or other demographic info.

Shaker of salt, hey?

IOW, mostly BS that morphs into “science” if it fits a particular narrative.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Lens on August 24, 2021, 05:15:58 PM

Quote from: dgies9156 on August 24, 2021, 04:13:28 PM

Brother Lens:

Don't know if you live in Florida or not. I do, a good hunk of the year. I actually have heard my Governor advocate for vaccinations. He was a leader in setting the allocation process for "seniors First," because that segment of our population, which is significant (just watch all the errant blinkers on any Florida highway, if you don't believe me), also is the most vulnerable to the disease. You didn't see a whole lot of people under 70 dying in Florida, unless they had underlying conditions.

DeSantis made sure the seniors and folks with underlying medical conditions were 1 and 1A in the line for vaccine. And yes, he pushed it to our citizenry.

He was on television earlier this year (I live in the Palm Beach television market) regularly pushing the vaccine.

I'll admit, I'm not sure Charlie Crist or Nikki Fried (the two Democrats likely to run for governor against DeSantis) would have done any different, other than to shut the state down a la Illinois or New York. But to suggest DeSantis didn't advocate vaccination is wrong. It's something that's coming from outside the state by folks who have an agenda of loathing of anything Florida.

Thanks for the on the ground intel.  I have never seen him advocate for vaccines but I only spent two week in FLA this year. 

What I do know is he has very famously battled against private enterprise that has wanted to require vaccines.  Telling U.S. businesses how they should operate seems to be the biggest Un-Republican, non conservative way of governing possible.  And IMO it sends a message that you're anti vaccince.  I really don't care that he made the elderly a priority...everyone did.  That was a lay-up.  I just find it incredible that a Republican Governor is fighting with cruise ship operators.  I thought we were the party of Business?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on August 24, 2021, 05:25:16 PM

DeSantis won’t even say if he’s been vaccinated. And by telling people, it’s their choice isn’t exactly advocating for the vaccine. He does tout his cure daily, which is essentially telling people that they don’t have to get vaccinated as they can get treated if needed.
And a $2000 treatment over a $30 shot isn’t very fiscally responsible.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 24, 2021, 05:44:20 PM

Quote from: dgies9156 on August 24, 2021, 03:11:47 PM

You can choose to be stupid. But your idiocy has consequences. Like, not being able to enter certain buildings, stores and public places. Like not being able to fly, ride a train or Mass Transit. And, if you're stupid after, say November 1, 2021, then the government should tell the world Medicare and Medicaid won't cover the cost of getting sick from Covid and private insurance can "opt out." of covering Covid-19 illness in non-vaccinated persons.

I don't know, rocket said I was "Adolph" for advocating pretty much these exact same restrictions and that they were just like putting people in encampments and harvesting their organs.

So there is that to consider.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on August 24, 2021, 05:55:20 PM

Quote from: dgies9156 on August 24, 2021, 04:54:18 PM

Afraid not, dude. I don't want our government taking preemptive actions against a vaccinated population. I'm rather suggesting you have a choice, but there are consequences of your actions.

I have no problem with the government NOT DOING ANYTHING on either the Covid-19 control restrictions for the stupidly unvaccinated or forcing the vaccination on stupid people. In the case of airlines, for example, let the carriers decide whether or not to carry the unvaccinated or under what conditions. Let the insurance companies decide whether to cover Covid-19 patients who are not vaccinated (you know they won't). Let Publix decide whether to admit the unvaccinated to their stores. Free commercial enterprises from the lawsuits that inevitably will come because you discriminate against idiots.

Frankly, I'm not sure I care because I'm vaccinated and I'm all in on the booster shot. My family all is vaccinated and most of my friends are.

Be stupid if it's your flavor de jour. But don't penalize the smart because the stupid are stupid.

Thanks for the explanation.

We appear to be on the same page.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 24, 2021, 05:57:58 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on August 24, 2021, 04:56:11 PM

IOW, mostly BS that morphs into “science” if it fits a particular narrative.

Hardly a coincidence that it was posted by Smith and jockitch within minutes, aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Billy Hoyle on August 24, 2021, 06:00:46 PM

back to mask mandates, even outdoors, in Oregon.  >:(

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 24, 2021, 06:05:16 PM

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on August 24, 2021, 06:00:46 PM

back to mask mandates, even outdoors, in Oregon.  >:(

So much for following the science.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: CountryRoads on August 24, 2021, 06:22:18 PM

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on August 24, 2021, 06:00:46 PM

back to mask mandates, even outdoors, in Oregon.  >:(

The least of their problems.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 24, 2021, 06:59:54 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 24, 2021, 02:03:04 PM

All dis chit iz politics, aina?

"Everyone has a right to make their own decisions regarding their health & their body...until your decision as to yourself impacts negatively many others.“

—Jerry Jones

This isn’t that hard. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 24, 2021, 07:15:38 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on August 24, 2021, 05:57:58 PM

Hardly a coincidence that it was posted by Smith and jockitch within minutes, aina?

Other than the fact that no one called it science. But sure, you can knock down that strawman all you'd like.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on August 24, 2021, 07:15:50 PM

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on August 24, 2021, 06:00:46 PM

back to mask mandates, even outdoors, in Oregon.  >:(

That seems dumb.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on August 24, 2021, 07:21:52 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on August 24, 2021, 07:15:50 PM

That seems dumb.

It is

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 24, 2021, 08:20:49 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 24, 2021, 07:15:38 PM

Other than the fact that no one called it science. But sure, you can knock down that strawman all you'd like.

It's all Ziggy's got. If there isn't a rocket brain post to agree with, he is pretty lost.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: dgies9156 on August 24, 2021, 11:10:50 PM

Quote from: The Lens on August 24, 2021, 05:15:58 PM

Thanks for the on the ground intel.  I have never seen him advocate for vaccines but I only spent two week in FLA this year. 

What I do know is he has very famously battled against private enterprise that has wanted to require vaccines.  Telling U.S. businesses how they should operate seems to be the biggest Un-Republican, non conservative way of governing possible.  And IMO it sends a message that you're anti vaccine.  I really don't care that he made the elderly a priority...everyone did.  That was a lay-up.  I just find it incredible that a Republican Governor is fighting with cruise ship operators.  I thought we were the party of Business?

Look, I think that was a dumb hill for him to die on. Whether he liked the idea or not, federal law supersedes state law on international cruise ships. He was going to lose that one and will lose assuming the cruise industry starts up again. My wife says it best: "Pick your battles." That one wasn't one worth fighting and will bite him in the backside if he runs for President.

As to the elderly, yes and no. He pushed them ahead of the teachers and lowered the vaccination eligible age to 65 ahead of anyone. Not sure there are too many governors who did that. And he did not send Covid-19 infected patients to nursing homes full of Florida's elderly. Our state opened ahead of just about everyone and despite the push for shelter in place, we rejected it. He was right on that too.

Brother PBI, I think you and I probably are in the same media market. I watch Senior Ken and Barbie News (Michael and the Lovely Kelly on Channel 5). I have seen the Governor encourage people to get it and I've seen lots of other Florida business, civic, academic and social leaders do the same. DeSantis gets few style points among people who watch him regularly, particularly those who do not like him (and I'll acknowledge that in our household, there's a strong difference of opinion on DeSantis). He's too combative at times and tends to make non-political issues overtly political, which leads to the kind of view about him you have. It is not a really unifying picture and tends to cause people to hear things DeSantis may not mean.

Maybe he should have said, "yes I got it and you should too..." I think he would be clearer and the message more focused. Or perhaps, he should order all State Employees to get vaccinated if they want to work. I agree it would be a more powerful message, especially to the stupid.

Nonetheless, not withstanding the past few weeks, Florida's record since Covid-19 emerged has been pretty good. In the beginning, our state had goals for reopening and we stuck to them. We really didn't have mask mandates and many of us made decisions based on our view about masks. We were in a restaurant in Vero Beach we really liked, but after the staff served us without masks, we suspended our patronage of that restaurant. This was during the height of covid and it blew our minds that our county sheriff's deputies and elected officials who were in the restaurant weren't wearing masks either. It was choice and I respect that just as it was our choice to voice displeasure by eating elsewhere and advising our friends to avoid the place.

Brother MU, love you man, but you are absolutely wrong. Our largest retail employers in the state, Publix Supermarkets and Wal*Mart, had mandatory masking requirements from the git-go. Our large pharmacies also demanded masks and social distancing in their stores. Most of the smaller, local retailers, restaurants and even the gun shops followed suit. Before the vaccine was available, we were as masked up in Florida as was Illinois, New York, California or any other major state. Private industry didn't need the government to act -- it did on its own. And when small business like the restaurant I noted, didn't follow suit, they paid for it with lower patronage. If Publix or CVS, for example, seek to require employees to be vaccinated, you won't hear a peep from DeSantis!

DeSantis NEVER criticized Publix or any other retailer that required masks in Florida. And, for the record, Publix is based in Lakeland, FL.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Billy Hoyle on August 24, 2021, 11:55:56 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 24, 2021, 06:05:16 PM

So much for following the science.

Our massive homeless population was exempted. And in the announcement it stated one need not wear a mask while swimming.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on August 25, 2021, 09:50:37 AM

Publix is also one of DeSantis's largest financial supporters. Of course he is not critical of them.
He also opposes mandatory vaccination of nursing home workers. And the elderly he was so quick to vaccinate are getting infected by the workers. Sometimes leading to hospitalizations. Again, not very fiscally responsible.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: dgies9156 on August 25, 2021, 10:14:16 AM

Boy, does Delta Airlines have a great idea.

We're not going to force you to be vaccinated against Covid-19. As in, it's your right to be stupid if you want to be.

Oh, by the way, your health insurance will increase by $200 per month if you don't show proof of vaccination.

Very much the right idea!!!!!!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on August 25, 2021, 10:25:01 AM

Quote from: dgies9156 on August 25, 2021, 10:14:16 AM

Boy, does Delta Airlines have a great idea.

We're not going to force you to be vaccinated against Covid-19. As in, it's your right to be stupid if you want to be.

Oh, by the way, your health insurance will increase by $200 per month if you don't show proof of vaccination.

Very much the right idea!!!!!!!

I said it before but the Feds blew it by NOT tying stimulus checks, student loan and rent forgiveness to vaccinations.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on August 25, 2021, 10:36:15 AM

Quote from: dgies9156 on August 25, 2021, 10:14:16 AM

Boy, does Delta Airlines have a great idea.

We're not going to force you to be vaccinated against Covid-19. As in, it's your right to be stupid if you want to be.

Oh, by the way, your health insurance will increase by $200 per month if you don't show proof of vaccination.

Very much the right idea!!!!!!!

That extra $200 a month sure helps Delta, and sure hurts unvaccinated employees.
Not sure what it does for those who are exposed to illness by those unvaccinated employees.
Given my druthers, I'm flying United.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 25, 2021, 10:38:26 AM

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on August 25, 2021, 10:25:01 AM

I said it before but the Feds blew it by NOT tying stimulus checks, student loan and rent forgiveness to vaccinations.

That's a great idea, but outside of rent forgiveness (which i hear is STILL ~90% unallocated), all the others fell into periods where the vaccine wasn't available.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: dgies9156 on August 25, 2021, 10:48:52 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on August 25, 2021, 10:36:15 AM

That extra $200 a month sure helps Delta, and sure hurts unvaccinated employees.
Not sure what it does for those who are exposed to illness by those unvaccinated employees.
Given my druthers, I'm flying United.

Brother Pakuni:

I fly United because I've always flown United and I'm 1K/Million Miler. But I firmly believe the $200 per month is real and offsets the cost of providing additional health care to the unvaccinated.

I don't think you have to worry about unvaccinated employees. Not sure how many front line airline employees can afford $200/month in additional health care costs.

Delta's vaccination rate probably will be extremely close to United's.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 25, 2021, 10:50:37 AM

Quote from: dgies9156 on August 24, 2021, 11:10:50 PM

Brother MU, love you man, but you are absolutely wrong.

Cruise lines ARE a private business, and you yourself said his decision to fight them very well could bite him on the backside.

And this:

Quote from: pbiflyer on August 25, 2021, 09:50:37 AM

Publix is also one of DeSantis's largest financial supporters. Of course he is not critical of them.
He also opposes mandatory vaccination of nursing home workers. And the elderly he was so quick to vaccinate are getting infected by the workers. Sometimes leading to hospitalizations. Again, not very fiscally responsible.

Look, DeSantis signed an executive order forbidding mandates (as did Abbott in Texas). It is big-government, anti-business and anti-health.

Add to that his refusal to criticize the anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists, and he has given whack jobs the cover they needed. Of course, he doesn't want to get booed by his base the way the previous president just did.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on August 25, 2021, 11:01:14 AM

Quote from: dgies9156 on August 25, 2021, 10:48:52 AM

Delta's vaccination rate probably will be extremely close to United's.

United's will be 100 percent.

Do you find it a bit inconsistent to say you're opposed to vaccine mandates, but strongly favor terms of employment that, by your own estimation, would require vaccination?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on August 25, 2021, 11:02:12 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 25, 2021, 10:38:26 AM

That's a great idea, but outside of rent forgiveness (which i hear is STILL ~90% unallocated), all the others fell into periods where the vaccine wasn't available.

The third check went out starting in March. Maybe that was late but not by a lot.

Child tax credits are monthly for the rest of the year. Guess who are the most non-vaxed adult age groups?

And then there are states like California who have sent out sizable state surplus checks.

A fourth check has stalled as has extended unemployment but governments don't think that way in terms of incentives. Instead we get political discourse about Mother Nature who is going to have her way anyway.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on August 25, 2021, 11:16:49 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on August 25, 2021, 11:01:14 AM

United's will be 100 percent.

Do you find it a bit inconsistent to say you're opposed to vaccine mandates, but strongly favor terms of employment that, by your own estimation, would require vaccination?

I don’t think that’s inconsistent.  He’s been pretty firm in his support of vaccines. And thinking everyone should be vaccinated.

To me there is a clear difference between “I think my company should require vaccinations for all our employees” and “I think the government should force/mandate my company to require vaccinations”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 25, 2021, 11:18:00 AM

The child tax credit checks are just an advance on the full credit they would have received when they filed their taxes though.

To me they should simply pass a vaccine tax credit that can be advanced.  $500 per person regardless of income.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 25, 2021, 11:28:19 AM

Quote from: dgies9156 on August 25, 2021, 10:14:16 AM

Boy, does Delta Airlines have a great idea.

We're not going to force you to be vaccinated against Covid-19. As in, it's your right to be stupid if you want to be.

Oh, by the way, your health insurance will increase by $200 per month if you don't show proof of vaccination.

Very much the right idea!!!!!!!

Clarification:  Delta Air Lines is basing this on B.1.617.2, not the Delta variant.  😂

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: dgies9156 on August 25, 2021, 11:56:18 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on August 25, 2021, 11:16:49 AM

I don’t think that’s inconsistent.  He’s been pretty firm in his support of vaccines. And thinking everyone should be vaccinated.

To me there is a clear difference between “I think my company should require vaccinations for all our employees” and “I think the government should force/mandate my company to require vaccinations”

Brother JWags:

Absolutely. I was vaccinated as soon as I could be under Florida's priorities. I received my second shot in April and pushed my children and my wife to do likewise. It did not take much prodding as we all are in agreement.

As a corporate employee, you have a choice: Get vaccinated or find a job that doesn't require vaccination. Period. The right to be stupid.

On another subject, I want to raise a question for the group about governors and personal actions. Doesn't matter whether your political leaders are liberal or conservative, here's the questions:

1) If my governor advocated an action that affected my health, I would do on his/her word.
2) I'd listen to my governor but my governor has no impact on my healthcare decisions. If I'm vaccinated, its because my doctor tells me so.
3) My governor's advocacy has no affect on my life. I act based on other factors.

Same three questions for the President. 

One last thought on DeSantis. Brother MU, our governor did not mandate vaccinations for nursing home workers. But so what. I'm confident enough that nursing homes themselves will mandate employee vaccines. Do you want your parents or grandparents living in a nursing home where the workers aren't vaccinated? I think the market would speak for itself.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on August 25, 2021, 12:00:05 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on August 25, 2021, 10:36:15 AM

That extra $200 a month sure helps Delta, and sure hurts unvaccinated employees.
Not sure what it does for those who are exposed to illness by those unvaccinated employees.
Given my druthers, I'm flying United.

Why is doing this any different from charging smokers extra for their health insurance? It's a choice people make that can materially increase their future medical bills.  Why should any company have to subsidize that?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Billy Hoyle on August 25, 2021, 01:00:53 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on August 25, 2021, 12:00:05 PM

Why is doing this any different from charging smokers extra for their health insurance? It's a choice people make that can materially increase their future medical bills.  Why should any company have to subsidize that?

I'm with you.  If you engage in activities that put you at a higher risk then you should pay more. When I got life insurance I had to answer questions about recreational activities like rock climbing, sky diving, scuba, etc.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 25, 2021, 01:11:24 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on August 25, 2021, 12:00:05 PM

Why is doing this any different from charging smokers extra for their health insurance? It's a choice people make that can materially increase their future medical bills.  Why should any company have to subsidize that?

You're right.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on August 25, 2021, 01:22:55 PM

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on August 25, 2021, 01:00:53 PM

I'm with you.  If you engage in activities that put you at a higher risk then you should pay more. When I got life insurance I had to answer questions about recreational activities like rock climbing, sky diving, scuba, etc.

I think we should speak with Reuben Feffer to assess any insurance premium increases and how vaccination affects the algorithm

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on August 25, 2021, 01:25:24 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on August 25, 2021, 01:22:55 PM

I think we should speak with Reuben Feffer to assess any insurance premium increases and how vaccination affects the algorithm

Bravo. That’s a pretty deep pull.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on August 25, 2021, 01:26:41 PM

Quote from: dgies9156 on August 25, 2021, 11:56:18 AM

Brother JWags:

Absolutely. I was vaccinated as soon as I could be under Florida's priorities. I received my second shot in April and pushed my children and my wife to do likewise. It did not take much prodding as we all are in agreement.

As a corporate employee, you have a choice: Get vaccinated or find a job that doesn't require vaccination. Period. The right to be stupid.

On another subject, I want to raise a question for the group about governors and personal actions. Doesn't matter whether your political leaders are liberal or conservative, here's the questions:

1) If my governor advocated an action that affected my health, I would do on his/her word.
2) I'd listen to my governor but my governor has no impact on my healthcare decisions. If I'm vaccinated, its because my doctor tells me so.
3) My governor's advocacy has no affect on my life. I act based on other factors.

Same three questions for the President. 

One last thought on DeSantis. Brother MU, our governor did not mandate vaccinations for nursing home workers. But so what. I'm confident enough that nursing homes themselves will mandate employee vaccines. Do you want your parents or grandparents living in a nursing home where the workers aren't vaccinated? I think the market would speak for itself.

DeSantis today held a press conference saying statistics don't support masks helping prevent the spread of covid. Not sure how that could in any universe be construed as helping overcome covid.
https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1430582058380898304?s=20

And most nursing homes in Florida are not requiring vaccines, as there is a worker shortage, especially in that low wage, tough job industry. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 25, 2021, 01:38:55 PM

Floridians Are Turning on Ron DeSantis as Covid Deaths Hit Record High
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/florida-covid-cases-deaths-ron-desantis-mask-mandates-1216694/

(Trigger warning for Lenny and Ziggy: Don't wet your pants, but this involves a poll).

"Covid-19 is obliterating Florida.

The Sunshine State comfortably leads the nation in average daily cases, average daily hospitalizations, and average daily deaths, according to The New York Times. This isn’t just because of its large population. Florida also leads the nation in hospitalizations per capita, and trails on Louisiana and Mississippi in cases per capita and deaths per capita. Last week, the state reported more new cases and more deaths than at any other point during the pandemic.

It shouldn’t come as a huge surprise, then, that Floridians have had it with Governor Ron DeSantis’ continued opposition to sensible preventative measures that have been proven to mitigate the spread of the disease. A Quinnipiac poll released Tuesday found that a plurality of DeSantis’ constituents believe he is hurting rather than helping efforts to slow the spread of the disease; that 61 percent of Floridians believe the rise recent explosion was preventable; and that 63 percent believe masks are effective while 59 percent support wearing them indoors.

The poll also found that 60 percent of Florida residents support requiring faculty and students to wear masks while in school, something DeSantis has opposed so stridently that he has threatened to strip funding from the school districts who impose mask mandates."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on August 25, 2021, 01:41:37 PM

https://www.tampabay.com/opinion/2021/08/10/what-we-now-know-about-how-to-fight-the-delta-variant-of-covid-column/?fbclid=IwAR3oxe6M70hCwTjIJtS-HBogrGwrbq2EIRDxyFgK82rX6smt8zHue1wxlHY

I found this very informative to someone like me not very scientifically minded.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 25, 2021, 01:56:45 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 25, 2021, 01:38:55 PM

Floridians Are Turning on Ron DeSantis as Covid Deaths Hit Record High
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/florida-covid-cases-deaths-ron-desantis-mask-mandates-1216694/

(Trigger warning for Lenny and Ziggy: Don't wet your pants, but this involves a poll).

"Covid-19 is obliterating Florida.

The Sunshine State comfortably leads the nation in average daily cases, average daily hospitalizations, and average daily deaths, according to The New York Times. This isn’t just because of its large population. Florida also leads the nation in hospitalizations per capita, and trails on Louisiana and Mississippi in cases per capita and deaths per capita. Last week, the state reported more new cases and more deaths than at any other point during the pandemic.

It shouldn’t come as a huge surprise, then, that Floridians have had it with Governor Ron DeSantis’ continued opposition to sensible preventative measures that have been proven to mitigate the spread of the disease. A Quinnipiac poll released Tuesday found that a plurality of DeSantis’ constituents believe he is hurting rather than helping efforts to slow the spread of the disease; that 61 percent of Floridians believe the rise recent explosion was preventable; and that 63 percent believe masks are effective while 59 percent support wearing them indoors.

The poll also found that 60 percent of Florida residents support requiring faculty and students to wear masks while in school, something DeSantis has opposed so stridently that he has threatened to strip funding from the school districts who impose mask mandates."

If you think I'm triggered by a poll (that you agreed was questionable), then you are a bigger pansy than I thought.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on August 25, 2021, 02:22:11 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on August 25, 2021, 12:00:05 PM

Why is doing this any different from charging smokers extra for their health insurance? It's a choice people make that can materially increase their future medical bills.  Why should any company have to subsidize that?

It's not and they shouldn't.
But we're not talking about smoking or rock climbing or riding a motorcycle. If a co-worker or employee at a business I patronize does those things, it doesn't threaten my health or safety in any way.
If that same co-worker or employee is a) significantly more likely to get COVID and b) spreading it more easily than a vaccinated person, that very much threatens my health.

I have no problem with Delta imposing an insurance surcharge on the unvaccinated. I'm just pointing out that the primary beneficiaries of that are the company and its health insurance provider.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 25, 2021, 03:05:40 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on August 25, 2021, 01:56:45 PM

If you think I'm triggered by a poll (that you agreed was questionable), then you are a bigger pansy than I thought.

That's almost rocket level logic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 25, 2021, 03:22:52 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 25, 2021, 03:05:40 PM

That's almost rocket level logic.

More than you can claim.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on August 25, 2021, 04:46:33 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on August 25, 2021, 01:56:45 PM

If you think I'm triggered by a poll (that you agreed was questionable), then you are a bigger pansy than I thought.

Homophobe.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: dgies9156 on August 25, 2021, 05:08:03 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on August 25, 2021, 01:26:41 PM

DeSantis today held a press conference saying statistics don't support masks helping prevent the spread of covid. Not sure how that could in any universe be construed as helping overcome covid.
https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1430582058380898304?s=20

And most nursing homes in Florida are not requiring vaccines, as there is a worker shortage, especially in that low wage, tough job industry.

Brother PBI:

How would expect the State of Florida to enforce a mask mandate? While Publix, CVS, Winn-Dixie, Walgreens etc., can deny access if you don't wear a mask (and at my Publix, there always was someone at the front door checking), how is the state going to enforce a mask mandate?

STOP..... FREEZE!!!!!! ..... PUT YOUR HANDS OVER YOUR MOUTH AND HOLD YOUR FINGERS TIGHT AGAINST YOUR FACE! ..... REFRAIN FROM BREATHING!!!! ..... THIS IS THE FLORIDA MASK POLICE!!!!!!!!!

I'm being facetious, but really not. Our state's law enforcement has enough problems dealing with the flood of guns into our state, with the drug problem and the day-to-day issues that our police officers have to face (including the herculean job of slowing down Interstate 95).

Full Disclosure: I wear a mask when I'm asked to. I'm going to Europe in October and since I'm a guest in someone else's country, I'll follow their laws and orders meticulously. I'm probably going to wear a mask a lot. But the fair question is whether most of the masks worn for Covid-19 in this country actually protect against Covid-19. My concern is that unless you wear an N-95 mask, the answer probably is not.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on August 25, 2021, 05:19:10 PM

Quote from: dgies9156 on August 25, 2021, 05:08:03 PM

Brother PBI:

How would expect the State of Florida to enforce a mask mandate? While Publix, CVS, Winn-Dixie, Walgreens etc., can deny access if you don't wear a mask (and at my Publix, there always was someone at the front door checking), how is the state going to enforce a mask mandate?

STOP..... FREEZE!!!!!! ..... PUT YOUR HANDS OVER YOUR MOUTH AND HOLD YOUR FINGERS TIGHT AGAINST YOUR FACE! ..... REFRAIN FROM BREATHING!!!! ..... THIS IS THE FLORIDA MASK POLICE!!!!!!!!!

I'm being facetious, but really not. Our state's law enforcement has enough problems dealing with the flood of guns into our state, with the drug problem and the day-to-day issues that our police officers have to face (including the herculean job of slowing down Interstate 95).

Full Disclosure: I wear a mask when I'm asked to. I'm going to Europe in October and since I'm a guest in someone else's country, I'll follow their laws and orders meticulously. I'm probably going to wear a mask a lot. But the fair question is whether most of the masks worn for Covid-19 in this country actually protect against Covid-19. My concern is that unless you wear an N-95 mask, the answer probably is not.

The same way they enforce any other law?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 25, 2021, 05:27:43 PM

Add 12000 add'l deaths in NY that Deathcuomo was hiding.  Was the Lt Gov aware of this too?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on August 25, 2021, 05:29:04 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on August 25, 2021, 05:27:43 PM

Add 12000 add'l deaths in NY that Deathcuomo was hiding.  Was the Lt Gov aware of this too?

May he rot in jail amd her, too, if she was complicit

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 25, 2021, 05:48:51 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on August 25, 2021, 03:22:52 PM

More than you can claim.

Ah yes, the "I know I am but what are you?" comeback. I've certainly been put in my place.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 25, 2021, 06:57:57 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 25, 2021, 05:48:51 PM

Ah yes, the "I know I am but what are you?" comeback. I've certainly been put in my place.

The only way you will understand is to talk to you like a 4 year old. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on August 25, 2021, 07:13:24 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 25, 2021, 03:05:40 PM

That's almost rocket level logic.

  damn, you are the board jacka$$

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 25, 2021, 07:50:06 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on August 25, 2021, 07:13:24 PM

  damn, you are the board jacka$$

I said almost rocket level. You remain the undisputed leader.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on August 25, 2021, 09:45:43 PM

Florida COVID cases hit daily record high of more than 26,000

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/coronavirus/2021/08/25/florida-covid-cases-hit-daily-record-high-more-than-26-000/5576611001/

Florida reported a record-high 26,203 new COVID-19 cases on Wednesday as hospitals continued to feel the strain of rising caseloads, federal agencies reported.

In Florida, less than 6% of beds in intensive care units were empty, according to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.  Nearly 54% of patients in ICUs were being treated for the highly contagious respiratory disease.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 26, 2021, 06:07:49 AM

Quote from: dgies9156 on August 25, 2021, 05:08:03 PM

Brother PBI:

How would expect the State of Florida to enforce a mask mandate? While Publix, CVS, Winn-Dixie, Walgreens etc., can deny access if you don't wear a mask (and at my Publix, there always was someone at the front door checking), how is the state going to enforce a mask mandate?

STOP..... FREEZE!!!!!! ..... PUT YOUR HANDS OVER YOUR MOUTH AND HOLD YOUR FINGERS TIGHT AGAINST YOUR FACE! ..... REFRAIN FROM BREATHING!!!! ..... THIS IS THE FLORIDA MASK POLICE!!!!!!!!!

I'm being facetious, but really not. Our state's law enforcement has enough problems dealing with the flood of guns into our state, with the drug problem and the day-to-day issues that our police officers have to face (including the herculean job of slowing down Interstate 95).

Full Disclosure: I wear a mask when I'm asked to. I'm going to Europe in October and since I'm a guest in someone else's country, I'll follow their laws and orders meticulously. I'm probably going to wear a mask a lot. But the fair question is whether most of the masks worn for Covid-19 in this country actually protect against Covid-19. My concern is that unless you wear an N-95 mask, the answer probably is not.

I wouldn't consider traveling to Europe or anywhere outside the US currently.  Too much risk, and not nearly enough reward considering most of the interesting stuff is closed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jsglow on August 26, 2021, 07:39:28 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on August 26, 2021, 06:07:49 AM

I wouldn't consider traveling to Europe or anywhere outside the US currently.  Too much risk, and not nearly enough reward considering most of the interesting stuff is closed.

By chance are you implying that brother dgies shouldn't go?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: dgies9156 on August 26, 2021, 08:34:21 AM

Quote from: jsglow on August 26, 2021, 07:39:28 AM

By chance are you implying that brother dgies shouldn't go?

Brother Glow:

I think that's exactly what he's saying.

I have given up staying home. My wife and I are going to Denver next week to visit my daughter. Sunday, I go to New York for a business meeting Monday and will be back Tuesday, just in time for Denver.

We come back from Denver after Labor Day and then I've got plans for a weekend in the Twin Cities (flying back for the Bears opener against Cincinnati), followed by a weekend in Door County. Back from Door County, do the Bears/Lions and then we go to Italy, getting back just in time for the Bear/Packers game at Soldier Field.

We're back in Chicago for a couple of weeks and then we migrate back to Florida!

The message: I'm vaccinated. At some point, our lives have to get back to normal. Yes, I may catch Covid-19 somewhere along the way, but being vaccinated means the impact likely is very, very minute. I don't stay home or limit activities because of fear of catching a cold or flu, nor am I as a vaccinated American, going to limit my activities because of Covid-19.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on August 26, 2021, 08:49:29 AM

Unfortunately that’s how variants end up getting spread around. I read an article that talked about that in relation to Israel’s spike.
In some of the TripAdvisor forums, people have posted that they are concerned about what happens if they test positive before returning to to the US, as they wouldn’t be able to fly home; another concern is whether their travel insurance covers them if they travel somewhere against government advice.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 26, 2021, 10:11:53 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on August 25, 2021, 09:45:43 PM

Florida COVID cases hit daily record high of more than 26,000

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/coronavirus/2021/08/25/florida-covid-cases-hit-daily-record-high-more-than-26-000/5576611001/

Florida reported a record-high 26,203 new COVID-19 cases on Wednesday as hospitals continued to feel the strain of rising caseloads, federal agencies reported.

In Florida, less than 6% of beds in intensive care units were empty, according to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.  Nearly 54% of patients in ICUs were being treated for the highly contagious respiratory disease.

Total shyteshow.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/25/us/florida-covid-deaths.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20210826&instance_id=38875&nl=the-morning&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=67284&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

More people in Florida are catching the coronavirus, being hospitalized and dying of Covid-19 now than at any previous point in the pandemic, underscoring the perils of limiting public health measures as the Delta variant rips through the state.

This week, 227 virus deaths were being reported each day in Florida, on average, as of Tuesday, a record for the state and by far the most in the United States right now. The average for new known cases reached 23,314 a day on the weekend, 30 percent higher than the state’s previous peak in January, according to a New York Times database. Across the country, new deaths have climbed to more than 1,000 a day, on average.

And hospitalizations in Florida have almost tripled in the past month, according to federal data, stretching many hospitals to the breaking point. The surge prompted the mayor of Orlando to ask residents to conserve water to limit the strain on the city’s supply of liquid oxygen, which is needed both to purify drinking water and to treat Covid-19 patients.

Even as cases continue to surge, with more than 17,200 people hospitalized with the virus across Florida, Gov. Ron DeSantis, a Republican, has held firm on banning vaccine and mask mandates. Several school districts have gone ahead with mask mandates anyway.

“We are exhausted,” said Dr. Rupesh Dharia, an internal medicine specialist. “Our patience and resources are running low.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 26, 2021, 11:21:54 AM

Quote from: dgies9156 on August 26, 2021, 08:34:21 AM

Brother Glow:

I think that's exactly what he's saying.

I have given up staying home. My wife and I are going to Denver next week to visit my daughter. Sunday, I go to New York for a business meeting Monday and will be back Tuesday, just in time for Denver.

We come back from Denver after Labor Day and then I've got plans for a weekend in the Twin Cities (flying back for the Bears opener against Cincinnati), followed by a weekend in Door County. Back from Door County, do the Bears/Lions and then we go to Italy, getting back just in time for the Bear/Packers game at Soldier Field.

We're back in Chicago for a couple of weeks and then we migrate back to Florida!

The message: I'm vaccinated. At some point, our lives have to get back to normal. Yes, I may catch Covid-19 somewhere along the way, but being vaccinated means the impact likely is very, very minute. I don't stay home or limit activities because of fear of catching a cold or flu, nor am I as a vaccinated American, going to limit my activities because of Covid-19.

Not what I'm saying at all.  I'm just saying I wouldn't spend thousands of dollars to go to Europe to see a bunch of closed museums.  I value my time and cash more than that.

For reference, I was just in NYC last week and had a great time.  Everything was open with my vax card in hand.  I just wouldn't go to Europe, or anywhere outside the US currently.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on August 26, 2021, 01:02:26 PM

fun sub I found:

https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 26, 2021, 01:19:49 PM

Desantis, yesterday:

 "[Biden] said he said he was going to end COVID, he hasn't done that."


The man is a liar and a killer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 26, 2021, 01:37:20 PM

Quote from: Jockey on August 26, 2021, 01:19:49 PM

Desantis, yesterday:

 "[Biden] said he said he was going to end COVID, he hasn't done that."


The man is a liar and a killer.

The man knows his base.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on August 26, 2021, 02:55:46 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 26, 2021, 01:37:20 PM

The man knows his base.

Feelings don’t care about facts

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 26, 2021, 03:00:31 PM

Quote from: dgies9156 on August 26, 2021, 08:34:21 AM

Brother Glow:

I think that's exactly what he's saying.

I have given up staying home. My wife and I are going to Denver next week to visit my daughter. Sunday, I go to New York for a business meeting Monday and will be back Tuesday, just in time for Denver.

We come back from Denver after Labor Day and then I've got plans for a weekend in the Twin Cities (flying back for the Bears opener against Cincinnati), followed by a weekend in Door County. Back from Door County, do the Bears/Lions and then we go to Italy, getting back just in time for the Bear/Packers game at Soldier Field.

We're back in Chicago for a couple of weeks and then we migrate back to Florida!

The message: I'm vaccinated. At some point, our lives have to get back to normal. Yes, I may catch Covid-19 somewhere along the way, but being vaccinated means the impact likely is very, very minute. I don't stay home or limit activities because of fear of catching a cold or flu, nor am I as a vaccinated American, going to limit my activities because of Covid-19.

Right on! Get vaccinated and live your life. This chit is gonna be around, so learn to live with it, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on August 26, 2021, 07:29:42 PM

https://news.yahoo.com/capitol-riot-lawyer-said-never-195917107.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 26, 2021, 07:46:19 PM

Two major cities in FL have asked their citizens to conserve water to preserve oxygen for the hospitals.  This is crazy. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on August 26, 2021, 08:04:16 PM

Hoax.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on August 26, 2021, 11:06:50 PM

How did we get to the point where a segment of our fellow Americans believes FDA approved vaccines are dangerous, but ingesting horse dewormer is a good way to fight COVID?
If you guessed medical grifters were involved somehow, you get a gold star.

A thread from NBC reporter Ben Collins.

Ben Collins
@oneunderscore__
Let's flash back to last year.
Remember those pro-Trump doctors who had an extremely viral video that said hydroxychloroquine “cured” COVID-19?
Then-President Trump retweeted it. It had millions of views before it was pulled from Facebook.
That was America’s Frontline Doctors.

If you know America’s Frontline Doctors, it’s probably because of Dr. Stella Immanuel.
She became famous because, before claiming  hydroxychloroquine cures COVID, she said ovarian cysts came from sex with demons.
Trump called her “very impressive.” (editor's note: so did rocket)

America’s Frontline Doctors was founded by Simone Gold, who spent the last year barnstorming churches and schools, insisting COVID vaccines cannot be trusted.
She’s become wildly influential with antivaxxers in the process. She has over 300k followers on this website.

Over the last year, as HCQ failed to become the miracle cure America’s Frontline Doctors claimed, antivaxxers became obsessed with COVID therapeutics. They're largely experimental cocktails from countries that didn’t have—but wanted—vaccine access.
Some included Ivermectin.

Antivaxx groups on Facebook and Reddit wanted ivermectin. Doctors wouldn’t prescribe it.
Members did whack-a-mole with telehealth providers, trying to get doctors to sign off on scripts.
But one reliably obliged: SpeakWithAnMD, who partners with… America’s Frontline Doctors.

SpeakWithAnMD offered $90 COVID consultations with MDs from America’s Frontline Doctors.
The cost of the ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine isn’t included, but, conveniently, they partner with a pharmacy who will ship it to your door!

We got a hold of the intake form for a SpeakWithAnMD doctor.
One part of the questionnaire asks: “What medication do you prefer?”
The user is then presented with three options: ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, or not sure.

This got out of hand fast. SpeakWithAnMD now hits you with a prompt warning of long wait times due to "overwhelming demand."
Antivaxxers were worried about family members dying of COVID, and they were told ivermectin cured it.
They were getting really impatient.

Antivaxxers started imploring each other to go to pet stores, claiming the horse and people Ivermectin are the same. They started sharing tips on how to eat the gel kind. They started hoarding it.
They started to wonder if maybe, without medical supervision, they had OD’d on it.

To evade what they believed to be incoming Facebook and Reddit bans, some ivermectin fans started to ask how much their “horse" weighs, so it didn’t look like they were giving out medical advice.

So that's how we ended up here.
Ivermectin fans on Facebook, complaining about wait times and high drug prices, got fed up with America’s Frontline Doctors, who sold them conspiracy and the fake cure.
So they went to the feed store, to eat the horse goo, because it's cheaper.

There is one final plot twist.
America’s Frontline Doctors founder Simone Gold was indicted and is awaiting trial... for her role in the Capitol Riot on January 6th.
Out on personal recognizance, she was on the speaker lineup for an antivaxx rally in LA on Saturday.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: dgies9156 on August 26, 2021, 11:34:01 PM

Brother Pakuni,

I don't take political advice from my doctor.

I don't take medical advice from my politicians.

When it comes to Covid-19, I seek advice from people I trust. My wife, my pulmonologist in Florida who leads the Covid-19 remediation efforts at one of Cleveland Clinic's Florida hospitals. My doctor in Chicago who has treated me for 27 years. When I get a consensus, I act.

NBC News, Fox, CNN, MSNBC, Talk Radio and Facebook are the LAST places I'd look for help in deciding on a vaccine.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on August 27, 2021, 06:32:54 AM

Quote from: dgies9156 on August 26, 2021, 11:34:01 PM

Brother Pakuni,

I don't take political advice from my doctor.

I don't take medical advice from my politicians.

When it comes to Covid-19, I seek advice from people I trust. My wife, my pulmonologist in Florida who leads the Covid-19 remediation efforts at one of Cleveland Clinic's Florida hospitals. My doctor in Chicago who has treated me for 27 years. When I get a consensus, I act.

NBC News, Fox, CNN, MSNBC, Talk Radio and Facebook are the LAST places I'd look for help in deciding on a vaccine.

Oh man that’s great for you.

What about the millions that are getting information from those places?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on August 27, 2021, 06:57:25 AM

Quote from: dgies9156 on August 26, 2021, 11:34:01 PM

Brother Pakuni,

I don't take political advice from my doctor.

I don't take medical advice from my politicians.

When it comes to Covid-19, I seek advice from people I trust. My wife, my pulmonologist in Florida who leads the Covid-19 remediation efforts at one of Cleveland Clinic's Florida hospitals. My doctor in Chicago who has treated me for 27 years. When I get a consensus, I act.

NBC News, Fox, CNN, MSNBC, Talk Radio and Facebook are the LAST places I'd look for help in deciding on a vaccine.

That seems a very wise approach, dgies, but why are you telling me this?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on August 27, 2021, 08:34:14 AM

Why aren't every one of the Frontline Doctors and anyone associated with SpeakWithAnMD in jail right now and their medical licenses revoked.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 27, 2021, 09:17:53 AM

Quote from: forgetful on August 27, 2021, 08:34:14 AM

Why aren't every one of the Frontline Doctors and anyone associated with SpeakWithAnMD in jail right now and their medical licenses revoked.

They do what they want. The founder of this “non-partisan” group was part of the attempted coup on Jan. 6.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on August 27, 2021, 09:53:03 AM

Part of me gets more pessimistic regarding COVID every day. It has fallen into the typical political pattern.

Recognition that an event may impact peoples lives: Pick a side and blast the media with your stance (GOP: Hoax/Freedom/JustTheFlu; DEM: Health/Lives/Science), divide the nation as best as possible. Divide, divide, divide. Then use it as a political wedge to define your side; go to the extremes with purity tests to have a defining position for election purposes.

The result ends up being that really neither side wants it completely solved, because then it can't be used as a political wedge. In the interim, people suffer and die, the economy suffers, everyone loses except for the politicians. Right now, the people in charge (DEMs) have more of a motivation to solve this, so are more likely to fall on the side of mandates; but in the end, they can also simply blame the other side for the problems and use that as political capital to potentially gain more seats/power.

This could be solved already, or still now. Governors should be mandating vaccines across the board. Mask mandates in the interim until vaccines are fully executed. We could have effectively wiped out COVID in the US; and still could if these simple ideas were executed. But they are not done. Not because legally they can't, but rather an issue of political capital, and fear of losing a divisive issue that can be exploited for election purposes.

It is really a sad, and depressing illustration of the state of American politics. Even in the case of saving lives, we cannot come together, but instead view it as another way to divide the nation for political gain.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on August 27, 2021, 09:53:29 AM

Other ideas to eradicate this over time (both in the US and globally):

1. Vaccinate all Americans; Mask mandates until achieved.
 
2. In order to get visas for travel to the US; must be vaccinated. Vaccinate travelers from other nations as a part of the visa process (e.g. at interviews). For nations where visas are not needed; proof of vaccination to travel. \

3. Start to vaccinate the rest of the world; use our industrial/science power to produce enough vaccine to potentially vaccinate the world.

4. While vaccinating the world, invest heavily in international surveillance testing to identify and evaluate new variants quickly.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 27, 2021, 09:59:34 AM

Quote from: forgetful on August 27, 2021, 09:53:03 AM

Part of me gets more pessimistic regarding COVID every day. It has fallen into the typical political pattern.

Recognition that an event may impact peoples lives: Pick a side and blast the media with your stance (GOP: Hoax/Freedom/JustTheFlu; DEM: Health/Lives/Science), divide the nation as best as possible. Divide, divide, divide. Then use it as a political wedge to define your side; go to the extremes with purity tests to have a defining position for election purposes.

The result ends up being that really neither side wants it completely solved, because then it can't be used as a political wedge. In the interim, people suffer and die, the economy suffers, everyone loses except for the politicians. Right now, the people in charge (DEMs) have more of a motivation to solve this, so are more likely to fall on the side of mandates; but in the end, they can also simply blame the other side for the problems and use that as political capital to potentially gain more seats/power.

This could be solved already, or still now. Governors should be mandating vaccines across the board. Mask mandates in the interim until vaccines are fully executed. We could have effectively wiped out COVID in the US; and still could if these simple ideas were executed. But they are not done. Not because legally they can't, but rather an issue of political capital, and fear of losing a divisive issue that can be exploited for election purposes.

It is really a sad, and depressing illustration of the state of American politics. Even in the case of saving lives, we cannot come together, but instead view it as another way to divide the nation for political gain.

Same.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on August 27, 2021, 10:58:04 AM

Never partisan for me.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: dgies9156 on August 27, 2021, 10:58:48 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on August 27, 2021, 06:57:25 AM

That seems a very wise approach, dgies, but why are you telling me this?

Because I don't rely on my governor, be it JB Pritzker in Illinois, Ron DeSantis in Florida (or anyplace else I've lived), for medical advice. It seems like too many people are blaming governors for this mess.

The notion that Governor Pritzker, Governor DeSantis, or any other elected official is responsible for the stupidity of a portion of its residents is not reasonable.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: cheebs09 on August 27, 2021, 11:09:39 AM

Quote from: dgies9156 on August 27, 2021, 10:58:48 AM

Because I don't rely on my governor, be it JB Pritzker in Illinois, Ron DeSantis in Florida (or anyplace else I've lived), for medical advice. It seems like too many people are blaming governors for this mess.

The notion that Governor Pritzker, Governor DeSantis, or any other elected official is responsible for the stupidity of a portion of its residents is not reasonable.

Responsible for their stupidity? No. Not taking measures to increase vaccination rates? Yes.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 27, 2021, 11:29:20 AM

Quote from: forgetful on August 27, 2021, 09:53:03 AM

Recognition that an event may impact peoples lives: Pick a side and blast the media with your stance (GOP: Hoax/Freedom/JustTheFlu; DEM: Health/Lives/Science), divide the nation as best as possible. Divide, divide, divide. Then use it as a political wedge to define your side; go to the extremes with purity tests to have a defining position for election purposes.

While this was an excellent post, I think you unwittingly are comparing these two things as being similar. Lies and truth are not equal comparisons.


From all that you post here, I know that is not what you are saying. But it is wrong to say that people telling the truth (Health/Lives/Science) are helping to divide the country.

Lies divide. Truth is just that - truth.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on August 27, 2021, 11:31:17 AM

Providing cover/validation for destructive impulses is bad and is appropriately condemned. People shouldn't be looking to their governor for medical advice, but ignoring the fact that people use the dumb opinions of politicians to rationalize or excuse their bad personal health choices is pretty myopic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on August 27, 2021, 11:33:43 AM

Quote from: dgies9156 on August 27, 2021, 10:58:48 AM

Because I don't rely on my governor, be it JB Pritzker in Illinois, Ron DeSantis in Florida (or anyplace else I've lived), for medical advice. It seems like too many people are blaming governors for this mess.

The notion that Governor Pritzker, Governor DeSantis, or any other elected official is responsible for the stupidity of a portion of its residents is not reasonable.

The problem with your frequent "other people's stupidity" line  that you continually ignore that in the case of COVID, that stupidity can - and does - harm others. It risks exposure. It increases the likelihood of new variants. It shuts down schools. It makes getting proper medical care more difficult.
People who refuse to vaccinate and take other public health precautions aren't the same as those eating too many Big Macs or smoking. They're the people getting sloshed at the bar then driving down the interstate in a Ford Explorer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 27, 2021, 11:53:09 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on August 26, 2021, 11:06:50 PM

So that's how we ended up here.
Ivermectin fans on Facebook, complaining about wait times and high drug prices, got fed up with America’s Frontline Doctors, who sold them conspiracy and the fake cure.
So they went to the feed store, to eat the horse goo, because it's cheaper.

I have it on good authority (I mean, the guy is supposedly a "health care professional") that its just $3.00/dose! Good deal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: dgies9156 on August 27, 2021, 12:51:44 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on August 27, 2021, 11:33:43 AM

The problem with your frequent "other people's stupidity" line  that you continually ignore that in the case of COVID, that stupidity can - and does - harm others. It risks exposure. It increases the likelihood of new variants. It shuts down schools. It makes getting proper medical care more difficult.
People who refuse to vaccinate and take other public health precautions aren't the same as those eating too many Big Macs or smoking. They're the people getting sloshed at the bar then driving down the interstate in a Ford Explorer.

But the harm done if you're vaccinated is comparatively minor. A few days and wham, it's gone for most Americans. Do we mask up now, shelter in place, spread apart and generally become anti-social because the flu virus mutates and we have a significant piece of the population without the flu virus?

No.

At some point, the stupid have to be stupid and we can't do anything about it unless we want to violate their Constitutional right to be stupid. We take steps to protect ourselves in concert with our doctors, nurses and other health care providers. We move on... which is what we need to do here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on August 27, 2021, 12:58:23 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on August 26, 2021, 11:06:50 PM

We got a hold of the intake form for a SpeakWithAnMD doctor.
One part of the questionnaire asks: “What medication do you prefer?”
The user is then presented with three options: ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, or not sure.

This got out of hand fast. SpeakWithAnMD now hits you with a prompt warning of long wait times due to "overwhelming demand."
Antivaxxers were worried about family members dying of COVID, and they were told ivermectin cured it.
They were getting really impatient.

This is pretty much where the American perception of capitalism, and the rules of the game that have evolved around that perception, stand right now.  The way you make money under the American system is no longer to come up with a new idea or a better business structure to grow your business and outduel your competition. Its to motor full steam ahead with a business that is - to put it charitably - on the margins of legality, and dare "big gubmint" to stop you.  By-mail pharmaceutical companies (SpeakWithAnMD, ForHims, Keeps), daily fantasy sports, Tesla's distribution network, Uber/Lyft are all businesses that enjoy tremendous success by just ignoring the regulatory/legal barriers to entry that have stopped others in the past.  And we have such an anti-regulatory environment that no one is going to stop them, which in turn just emboldens the next and potentially more dangerous business from doing the same thing.  Until we stop seeing any type of regulation as a bad thing, that's just going to be how it is.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on August 27, 2021, 12:59:16 PM

Quote from: dgies9156 on August 27, 2021, 12:51:44 PM

But the harm done if you're vaccinated is comparatively minor. A few days and wham, it's gone for most Americans.

Tell that to this guy, a prime example of why "other people's stupidity" is a problem for everyone, and not a "relatively" minor one:

Afghan war veteran Dan Wilkinson of suburban Houston got sick last weekend, goes to the doctor and discovers he has something called gallstone pancreatitis. He needs high-level treatment ASAP, but no hospital in the area has a place for him. After hours of frantically searching, doctors find a VA hospital that will take him. He's airlifted, but by the time he arrives, it's too late and he dies.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-us-hospital-icu-bed-shortage-veteran-dies-treatable-illness/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 27, 2021, 01:30:11 PM

Quote from: dgies9156 on August 27, 2021, 12:51:44 PM

At some point, the stupid have to be stupid and we can't do anything about it unless we want to violate their Constitutional right to be stupid. We take steps to protect ourselves in concert with our doctors, nurses and other health care providers. We move on... which is what we need to do here.

Check out the Covid rates in the counties around Sturgis. Blindly letting the stupid be stupid kills people.

By your reasoning, there should be zero punishment for bad/ drunk drivers. Just let ‘em be stupid.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: dgies9156 on August 27, 2021, 02:27:25 PM

Quote from: Jockey on August 27, 2021, 01:30:11 PM

Check out the Covid rates in the counties around Sturgis. Blindly letting the stupid be stupid kills people.

By your reasoning, there should be zero punishment for bad/ drunk drivers. Just let ‘em be stupid.

Gosh, if I had you for a logic student, yikes!

The right of free assembly, free passage etc., is guaranteed in our Constitution. The right to operate a motor vehicle, or operate a motor vehicle while impaired, IS NOT!

It's about the rule of law and the guarantees each of us have as a United States citizen. Yeah, if I was Czar of America, I'd mandate vaccines for everyone. But I'm not and neither is the President, the Governor or, for that matter, the legislature. Sometimes, as we have seen at various times through the years, following the law is painful. It's why sometimes folks on the far right or the far left want to burn the country down and start over. But we don't because we recognize that even with its faults, America is the best deal going anywhere.

By your logic, we wear masks and separate and avoid any social contact until either the virus is gone or everyone in America voluntarily is vaccinated. We ban automobiles because some idiot might get in one and hurt somebody. We don't fly airliners because one might crash -- after all, every now and then they do. We don't go outside because, gee, it is possible we might get hurt.

In short, by this logic, we regulate for the extreme, six to nine standard deviations to the right of the mean!

Brother Jockey, it's a free country. You have the right, as many of my wife's friends in Florida actually did during 2020, to bunker down in your house, have your groceries, pharmaceuticals and other staples of life delivered and to never come out. If you make sure you get a very good, very effective filtration system, you can make sure those nasty little Covid-19 bugs bother someone else. You can lead a life that many of us, myself included, would find incredibly unfulfilling.

Heck, even in the evil Kingdom of Florida, you have the right to walk our streets, drive our roads and enjoy our natural beauty with a mask on. The Evil King and his Minions never forbade you -- or anyone else for that matter -- from wearing a mask.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 27, 2021, 03:00:13 PM

Quote from: dgies9156 on August 27, 2021, 02:27:25 PM

Gosh, if I had you for a logic student, yikes!

The right of free assembly, free passage etc., is guaranteed in our Constitution. The right to operate a motor vehicle, or operate a motor vehicle while impaired, IS NOT!

It's about the rule of law and the guarantees each of us have as a United States citizen. Yeah, if I was Czar of America, I'd mandate vaccines for everyone. But I'm not and neither is the President, the Governor or, for that matter, the legislature. Sometimes, as we have seen at various times through the years, following the law is painful. It's why sometimes folks on the far right or the far left want to burn the country down and start over. But we don't because we recognize that even with its faults, America is the best deal going anywhere.

By your logic, we wear masks and separate and avoid any social contact until either the virus is gone or everyone in America voluntarily is vaccinated. We ban automobiles because some idiot might get in one and hurt somebody. We don't fly airliners because one might crash -- after all, every now and then they do. We don't go outside because, gee, it is possible we might get hurt.

In short, by this logic, we regulate for the extreme, six to nine standard deviations to the right of the mean!

Brother Jockey, it's a free country. You have the right, as many of my wife's friends in Florida actually did during 2020, to bunker down in your house, have your groceries, pharmaceuticals and other staples of life delivered and to never come out. If you make sure you get a very good, very effective filtration system, you can make sure those nasty little Covid-19 bugs bother someone else. You can lead a life that many of us, myself included, would find incredibly unfulfilling.

Heck, even in the evil Kingdom of Florida, you have the right to walk our streets, drive our roads and enjoy our natural beauty with a mask on. The Evil King and his Minions never forbade you -- or anyone else for that matter -- from wearing a mask.

Thanks for the reply, dgies. I am vaccinated and take no precautions. I will wear a mask where it is requested. I trust the science. I am able to distinguish between being a man and being livestock. We need to protect society from those who don't know the difference.

Mandatory vaccines have been in effect for a long time in this country. Once this vaccine is approved for children, it should be mandatory for school attendance. We do not need to cater to the stupid and crazy.

Since you brought up automobiles, let's talk about it. We do have laws - mandatory laws to operate a vehicle - to protect all of us from the stupid. We are mandated to buckle up. We are mandated to stop whenever the gov't tells us to stop. We are mandated to drive at what the gov't says is a safe speed. Yet, these "extreme" measures do not keep us from driving. These gov't demands make it easier for all of us - you might even say the laws/rules are in place for the "general welfare".

I could make the same arguments for airlines, as well.


The crux of this whole problem is that you are a Cardinals fan. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: dgies9156 on August 27, 2021, 03:20:37 PM

Quote from: Jockey on August 27, 2021, 03:00:13 PM

The crux of this whole problem is that you are a Cardinals fan. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

An ad avem fallacy or an ad Cardinali fallacy

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on August 27, 2021, 04:51:17 PM

My god.

If folks can't see the differentiate between drunk driving laws and mask mandates, nothing can help them.

Logic and reason has failed so many, it appears.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on August 27, 2021, 04:57:40 PM

Quote from: Jockey on August 27, 2021, 11:29:20 AM

While this was an excellent post, I think you unwittingly are comparing these two things as being similar. Lies and truth are not equal comparisons.


From all that you post here, I know that is not what you are saying. But it is wrong to say that people telling the truth (Health/Lives/Science) are helping to divide the country.

Lies divide. Truth is just that - truth.

You know very well that even “health” based messaging can be divisive and used as political leverage. Look at Oregon and their absurd outdoor mask mandate.  It’s purely theatrical to show how conscientious and “science focused” they are for political capital. And opposing it aligns you with anti-vaxx mask haters cause everything is all or nothing these days.  Or liberal leaning news/media outlets who relentless stoke fear with statistic reporting. Facts and truth can be shaped just like a lie.

 “COVID deaths in X county are up 200% since last month as an outbreak explodes. Mask mandates are needed immediately”…when deaths rose to 3 from 1.

I know it’s hard for you to admit Dems do anything wrong since they aren’t the “killers” in red, but both sides have been furiously pushing the COVID button for political gain.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 27, 2021, 09:09:00 PM

Well, if you want to use Oregon as an example, I’ll use Florida. Their deaths have not gone from 1 to 3.

Their cases have skyrocketed higher than ever. And like it or not, it is purely political. Families are being told their kids don’t matter cuz DeSantis wants to be re-elected and the base must be fed. Follow trump’s lead.

They are too stupid to know that trump would have easily won if he had shown even an ounce of sympathy for suffering families.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on August 27, 2021, 09:50:34 PM

Quote from: Jockey on August 27, 2021, 09:09:00 PM

Well, if you want to use Oregon as an example, I’ll use Florida. Their deaths have not gone from 1 to 3.

Their cases have skyrocketed higher than ever. And like it or not, it is purely political. Families are being told their kids don’t matter cuz DeSantis wants to be re-elected and the base must be fed. Follow trump’s lead.

They are too stupid to know that trump would have easily won if he had shown even an ounce of sympathy for suffering families.

Way to not even remotely address my point to screech about DeSantis and Trump again. On brand.  I didn’t once defend them or Florida 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 28, 2021, 06:05:27 AM

Wags, stop expecting complex replies from Jockey.  His go to is hyperbole, which doesn't really stand up to logical thought.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Johnny B on August 28, 2021, 02:33:47 PM

20 psychos protesting outside of my local clinic cause the staff need a vax to work there. stop the mandate and usa flags baby. how do we live in the same country as these ppl. a medical facility cant require vaccines to work there?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 28, 2021, 03:16:50 PM

From the Washington Post:

In Southern states, pediatric ICUs are at or near capacity with record numbers of severely ill children. They include newborns just weeks or months old and previously healthy children — almost unheard of in previous waves — reinforcing the idea that this is a virus that can strike anyone.

“Is it that we have more cases overall and this is a more transmissible virus? Or is it something about delta? It’s too early to tell, and if anyone is making assumptions, they are not basing it on rigorous data, as there are not rigorous data,” said Adrienne Randolph, a researcher at Boston Children’s Hospital who is leading a nationwide study on covid-19 in children. “However my colleagues in ICUs have reported many more severe cases.” ...

In Arkansas just outside Little Rock, Tate Ezzi, 44, and his pregnant wife Christine, 39, parents to five young children, have been urging the vaccine-wary to revaluate their stance since both were hospitalized and she lost the pregnancy after attending a birthday party at a skating rink. In Texas, Lydia Rodriguez, 42, died this month of covid-19, two weeks after her husband Lawrence’s death from the same disease, orphaning their four children. And in Florida, a 52-year-old mother died and the father was still in the hospital as of this week.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on August 28, 2021, 04:15:09 PM

Previously I commented on how anything that stresses the Houston medical system further, would lead to unnecessary deaths.

Sadly, a veteran died of a gallstone. Not because it wasn't preventable, but because there were no available facilities to treat him, because of all the beds being taken up for COVID.

https://www.khou.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/texas-veteran-dies-from-gallstone-pancreatitis-as-covid-crisis-impacts-those-who-dont-have-virus/285-44cc982f-bba0-43e5-b51f-bbb607ad45fc (https://www.khou.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/texas-veteran-dies-from-gallstone-pancreatitis-as-covid-crisis-impacts-those-who-dont-have-virus/285-44cc982f-bba0-43e5-b51f-bbb607ad45fc)

Two tours of duty. A Purple Heart. Died because people refuse to wear masks and get a vaccine.

Sad and depressing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on August 28, 2021, 08:35:15 PM

https://twitter.com/DocJeffD/status/1431377031275507717?s=19

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on August 28, 2021, 08:51:17 PM

Forgetful, what do suppose is going to happen to the Texas hospital system when they add in the Lousiana refugees post Ida?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on August 28, 2021, 10:04:04 PM

Quote from: forgetful on August 28, 2021, 04:15:09 PM

Previously I commented on how anything that stresses the Houston medical system further, would lead to unnecessary deaths.

Sadly, a veteran died of a gallstone. Not because it wasn't preventable, but because there were no available facilities to treat him, because of all the beds being taken up for COVID.

https://www.khou.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/texas-veteran-dies-from-gallstone-pancreatitis-as-covid-crisis-impacts-those-who-dont-have-virus/285-44cc982f-bba0-43e5-b51f-bbb607ad45fc (https://www.khou.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/texas-veteran-dies-from-gallstone-pancreatitis-as-covid-crisis-impacts-those-who-dont-have-virus/285-44cc982f-bba0-43e5-b51f-bbb607ad45fc)

Two tours of duty. A Purple Heart. Died because people refuse to wear masks and get a vaccine.

Sad and depressing.

I was assured Covid was over for him.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 29, 2021, 07:33:50 AM

From an AP article about how difficult it has been to do contact tracing for the delta variant:

Some states trimmed their contact tracing teams this spring and summer when virus numbers were dropping and are now scrambling to train new investigators. Others have triaged their teams to focus on the most vulnerable, such as cases involving schools or children too young to be vaccinated.

Texas got out of the business entirely, with the new two-year state budget that takes effect Sept. 1 explicitly prohibiting funds being used for contact tracing. That left it up to local health officials, but they can’t keep up at a time when Texas is averaging more than 16,000 new cases a day.

What is it with these governors and legislators? OK ... don't mandate masks, don't mandate vaccines, don't have robust contact-tracing departments ... we get it, you're dealing with constituents who boo the former president they worship just for mentioning that the vaccine works. But what's with the steady diet of prohibitions of measures that are scientifically proven to mitigate the severity of the virus?

Threatening fines and legal actions against private businesses that want to protect their employees and customers ... threatening to withhold funding to school districts that mandate vaccines and/or masks ... prohibiting contact tracing.

What's with actively, aggressively undermining efforts to protect the lives and well-being of their own citizens? It's frustrating and pathetic.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on August 29, 2021, 10:28:47 AM

Quote from: tower912 on August 28, 2021, 08:51:17 PM

Forgetful, what do suppose is going to happen to the Texas hospital system when they add in the Lousiana refugees post Ida?

Was thinking about this last night, and really the best hope for both Texas (really Houston area because that is where hurricane refugees flock to) and Louisiana is that the storm didn't actually strengthen, or weakened.

Neither happened, now at almost category 5. The hospital systems in both states are near the breaking point. Frankly, if the hurricane adds to this burden significantly, people will just end up going without care, with likely deaths.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 29, 2021, 11:49:42 AM

Quote from: forgetful on August 28, 2021, 04:15:09 PM

Previously I commented on how anything that stresses the Houston medical system further, would lead to unnecessary deaths.

Sadly, a veteran died of a gallstone. Not because it wasn't preventable, but because there were no available facilities to treat him, because of all the beds being taken up for COVID.

https://www.khou.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/texas-veteran-dies-from-gallstone-pancreatitis-as-covid-crisis-impacts-those-who-dont-have-virus/285-44cc982f-bba0-43e5-b51f-bbb607ad45fc (https://www.khou.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/texas-veteran-dies-from-gallstone-pancreatitis-as-covid-crisis-impacts-those-who-dont-have-virus/285-44cc982f-bba0-43e5-b51f-bbb607ad45fc)

Two tours of duty. A Purple Heart. Died because people refuse to wear masks and get a vaccine.

Sad and depressing.

A perfect example of why I have such contempt for these people who refuse to get vaccinated.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on August 29, 2021, 11:59:31 AM

At this point, anti-vaxxers are really just pimping for the virus.   Choosing the health and spread of the virus over the health of their families, chuldren, and loved ones.   


Go, COVID!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 29, 2021, 04:40:37 PM

Quote from: tower912 on August 29, 2021, 11:59:31 AM

At this point, anti-vaxxers are really just pimping for the virus.   Choosing the health and spread of the virus over the health of their families, chuldren, and loved ones.   


Go, COVID!

As are those that are themselves vaccinated but continue to support the politicians and media that spread disinformation, pretend suspicion about the vaccine, and actively work against solving the problem in order to gain financially and politically.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on August 29, 2021, 10:14:00 PM

Not a rerun.
Yet another anti-vax conservative radio host has died of COVID.

https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2021/08/29/3rd-conservative-radio-host-who-condemned-vaccines-dies-of-covid-1390555

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on August 30, 2021, 07:42:23 AM

From the NYT:

The E.U. is set to reimpose travel restrictions on visitors from the U.S. The restrictions, which were mostly lifted in June, could range from a required quarantine to a ban on nonessential travel. (The suggestions from the European Council are not mandatory, so each country can decide whether to apply them.) The move is a response to rising case counts in the U.S., which has averaged more than 100,000 Covid-19 hospitalizations a day for the past week.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on August 30, 2021, 08:32:47 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on August 29, 2021, 10:14:00 PM

Not a rerun.
Yet another anti-vax conservative radio host has died of COVID.

https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2021/08/29/3rd-conservative-radio-host-who-condemned-vaccines-dies-of-covid-1390555

Look at the anti-vax talking heads who've died. It's not the national tv people. It's not the politicians. Those people are in on the grift and have gotten the vaccine themselves and are just profiting off the fear. The people who die are the midlevel dudes, local talkers, too small to be in on the grift. They're the true believers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 30, 2021, 08:49:30 AM

Comments or thoughts from the sciencers?

This new antibody can stop all COVID-19 strains, including new variants, experts say
https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus/2021/8/27/22643254/antibody-stops-covid-19-coronavirus-variants-delta-lambda

"A team of researchers may have found an antibody that can neutralize all known novel coronavirus strains, including the developing variants.

GlaxoSmithKline and Vir Biotechnology recently conducted a huge collaborative study by scientists and developed a new antibody therapy, called Sotrovimab. During the project, they discovered a new natural antibody “that has remarkable breadth and efficacy,” according to the Berkeley Lab."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 30, 2021, 09:12:29 AM

Quote from: jficke13 on August 30, 2021, 08:32:47 AM

Look at the anti-vax talking heads who've died. It's not the national tv people. It's not the politicians. Those people are in on the grift and have gotten the vaccine themselves and are just profiting off the fear. The people who die are the midlevel dudes, local talkers, too small to be in on the grift. They're the true believers.

"Suckers" may be a better term.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on August 30, 2021, 09:21:28 AM

Quote from: Jockey on August 30, 2021, 09:12:29 AM

"Suckers" may be a better term.

Sure, but that's semantics. What's interesting to me is the distinction between the people of prominence who are "just asking questions" despite being fully vaccinated while happily profiting off of the death and misery they enable, and the people on the ground who have bought into the lies hook line and sinker.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 30, 2021, 09:56:21 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 30, 2021, 08:49:30 AM

Comments or thoughts from the sciencers?

This new antibody can stop all COVID-19 strains, including new variants, experts say
https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus/2021/8/27/22643254/antibody-stops-covid-19-coronavirus-variants-delta-lambda

"A team of researchers may have found an antibody that can neutralize all known novel coronavirus strains, including the developing variants.

GlaxoSmithKline and Vir Biotechnology recently conducted a huge collaborative study by scientists and developed a new antibody therapy, called Sotrovimab. During the project, they discovered a new natural antibody “that has remarkable breadth and efficacy,” according to the Berkeley Lab."

Neat.  But can it be mass produced and distributed?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 30, 2021, 10:15:14 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on August 30, 2021, 09:56:21 AM

Neat.  But can it be mass produced and distributed?

A good question, but first, let's prove it even works. That's why I'd like the insight of the folks on this board that know a whole lot more on the subject than me.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on August 30, 2021, 11:14:47 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 30, 2021, 08:49:30 AM

Comments or thoughts from the sciencers?

This new antibody can stop all COVID-19 strains, including new variants, experts say
https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus/2021/8/27/22643254/antibody-stops-covid-19-coronavirus-variants-delta-lambda

"A team of researchers may have found an antibody that can neutralize all known novel coronavirus strains, including the developing variants.

GlaxoSmithKline and Vir Biotechnology recently conducted a huge collaborative study by scientists and developed a new antibody therapy, called Sotrovimab. During the project, they discovered a new natural antibody “that has remarkable breadth and efficacy,” according to the Berkeley Lab."

> all known novel coronavirus strains

So they're saying they can eliminate the common cold?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 30, 2021, 11:19:22 AM

Quote from: jficke13 on August 30, 2021, 09:21:28 AM

Sure, but that's semantics. What's interesting to me is the distinction between the people of prominence who are "just asking questions" despite being fully vaccinated while happily profiting off of the death and misery they enable, and the people on the ground who have bought into the lies hook line and sinker.

Yeah, I fully agree with that. But that is the way life is. Most politicians who clamor for war have no stake either. They are playing with other people's lives, not their own.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 30, 2021, 11:29:08 AM

Quote from: Skatastrophy on August 30, 2021, 11:14:47 AM

> all known novel coronavirus strains

So they're saying they can eliminate the common cold?

I know, that was the first thing I thought of as well. Seems rather too good to be true. Need the sciency types to weigh in.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on August 30, 2021, 12:51:32 PM

Getting it from a lab and hamsters to effective for humans is the trick.   I believe that the big pharma R&D related to COVID will eventually pay huge dividends in society.   And I think there will be a breakthrough that ultimately ends COVID.   Probably year 4.


If the morons actually take it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 30, 2021, 07:42:11 PM

Liberty University refused mask mandates, vaccine mandates, and social distancing rules.

We’re still in August and the whole school is already in quarantine. Classes online, no eating in cafeteria, etc.

Falwell jr. has even had to put in a camera so he can watch his wife and the cabana boy from another room.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 30, 2021, 08:35:35 PM

Quote from: Jockey on August 30, 2021, 07:42:11 PM

Liberty University refused mask mandates, vaccine mandates, and social distancing rules.

We’re still in August and the whole school is already in quarantine. Classes online, no eating in cafeteria, etc.

Falwell jr. has even had to put in a camera so he can watch his wife and the cabana boy from another room.

What are your thoughts on all the measures Duke put into place with 98% of their student body vaccinated and they just went into full lock down as well. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on August 30, 2021, 09:21:39 PM

Quote from: Jockey on August 30, 2021, 07:42:11 PM

Liberty University refused mask mandates, vaccine mandates, and social distancing rules.

We’re still in August and the whole school is already in quarantine. Classes online, no eating in cafeteria, etc.

Falwell jr. has even had to put in a camera so he can watch his wife and the cabana boy from another room.

Now that was funny!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 31, 2021, 09:29:19 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1432697419033100291

This thread pretty much captures where I’m at.  This administration like some other recent global events is lacking any sort of strategic plan. 

A lot of flying by the seat of our pants it feels like. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on August 31, 2021, 11:20:34 AM

If we just stop counting covid deaths, the numbers will go down!

Florida changed its COVID-19 data, creating an ‘artificial decline’ in recent deaths

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article253796898.html

As cases ballooned in August, however, the Florida Department of Health changed the way it reported death data to the CDC, giving the appearance of a pandemic in decline, an analysis of Florida data by the Miami Herald and el Nuevo Herald found.

On Monday, Florida death data would have shown an average of 262 daily deaths reported to the CDC over the previous week had the health department used its former reporting system, the Herald analysis showed. Instead, the Monday update from Florida showed just 46 “new deaths” per day over the previous seven days.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on August 31, 2021, 06:58:19 PM

With COVID-19 cases continuing to spike in Idaho, Gov. Brad Little outlined the state’s increasingly dire situation as Idaho nears the activation of crisis standards of care. Little said Tuesday he was deploying members of the National Guard to help strained Idaho hospitals.

For the public, Little said one way to help would be getting a COVID-19 vaccine. “It is our ticket out of the pandemic,” Little said.

Just minutes after Little made his plea, Lt. Gov. Janice McGeachin called his suggestion “shameful.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on August 31, 2021, 07:14:00 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on August 31, 2021, 11:20:34 AM

If we just stop counting covid deaths, the numbers will go down!

Florida changed its COVID-19 data, creating an ‘artificial decline’ in recent deaths

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article253796898.html

As cases ballooned in August, however, the Florida Department of Health changed the way it reported death data to the CDC, giving the appearance of a pandemic in decline, an analysis of Florida data by the Miami Herald and el Nuevo Herald found.

On Monday, Florida death data would have shown an average of 262 daily deaths reported to the CDC over the previous week had the health department used its former reporting system, the Herald analysis showed. Instead, the Monday update from Florida showed just 46 “new deaths” per day over the previous seven days.

  maybe they'll give the grope gov's emmy to the "d' man eyn'a?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on August 31, 2021, 08:25:51 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on August 31, 2021, 07:14:00 PM

  maybe they'll give the grope gov's emmy to the "d' man eyn'a?

Hey I'm getting this news bulletin in, hot of the presses, wow, so I'm hearing that the fact that one person is bad has no relevance to whether a completely different person is also bad. Whoa, who knew?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on August 31, 2021, 10:12:53 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on August 31, 2021, 07:14:00 PM

  maybe they'll give the grope gov's emmy to the "d' man eyn'a?

I’m good with DeSantis following Cuomo’s lead. He should. Both are bad. See how easy that is?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 01, 2021, 06:35:13 AM

Quote from: Skatastrophy on August 30, 2021, 11:14:47 AM

> all known novel coronavirus strains

So they're saying they can eliminate the common cold?

The common cold is a rhinovirus, not a coronavirus, but I'm just being pedantic.  ;D

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 01, 2021, 06:40:22 AM

Getting vaccinated is NOT simply a personal choice that affects only those who make it.

According to the Charlotte Observer, the largest hospital system in North Carolina had 215 ventilators in use as of Monday; that's almost its entire inventory. Of those, 207 were being used by COVID-19 patients. And of those, 199 were being used on those who were unvaccinated.

The problem is bad enough in Charlotte. But the situation is really dire in the system's more rural hospitals and medical centers, because some of those only have a few ventilators available. When those are all in use, there might not be another ventilator within many miles.

So if somebody gets into a car accident or suffers a serious asthma attack or gets rescued from drowning or whatever, it's quite possible that there will not be a ventilator available to keep them alive.

Why? Because some jamoke exercising his or her "personal choice" refused to get vaccinated.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on September 01, 2021, 08:05:16 AM

I see a news blurb that Connecticut hospitals are taking out of state COVID patients.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 01, 2021, 09:41:21 AM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on September 01, 2021, 08:05:16 AM

I see a news blurb that Connecticut hospitals are taking out of state COVID patients.

We'll send y'all ours!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on September 01, 2021, 12:14:24 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on August 31, 2021, 10:12:53 PM

I’m good with DeSantis following Cuomo’s lead. He should. Both are bad. See how easy that is?

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/025/090/tumblr_inline_p1brmcd9Dk1rr08jv_500.jpg)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on September 01, 2021, 02:18:51 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on September 01, 2021, 06:35:13 AM

The common cold is a rhinovirus, not a coronavirus, but I'm just being pedantic.  ;D

  sorry doctor hards, but...

  10-40% are caused by rhinovirus

  20% coronovirus

  20% rsv and parainfluenza


https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/cold-guide/common_cold_causes

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on September 01, 2021, 03:09:35 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on September 01, 2021, 02:18:51 PM

  sorry doctor hards, but...

  10-40% are caused by rhinovirus

  20% coronovirus

  20% rsv and parainfluenza


https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/cold-guide/common_cold_causes

I wish I didn't have to know about any of this stuff. I would like to go back to the days that I was living in ignorance.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 01, 2021, 03:37:44 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on September 01, 2021, 02:18:51 PM

  sorry doctor hards, but...

  10-40% are caused by rhinovirus

  20% coronovirus

  20% rsv and parainfluenza


https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/cold-guide/common_cold_causes

Fair enough.  But eliminating all coronaviruses won't eliminate the common cold... since only 20% of common colds are coronaviruses.

But you know, my point still stands.  But now you're just being pedantic.   ;D

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 02, 2021, 11:04:21 AM

From the Charlotte Observer:

Charlotte-area doctors issued dire warnings ahead of Labor Day weekend travel and gatherings, urging North Carolinians to get the COVID-19 vaccine amid a surge in coronavirus cases, hospitalizations and even deaths.

”Quite frankly, beds are scarce,” Novant Health chief clinical officer Dr. Sid Fletcher said Thursday morning. “We are running short on resources.”

The Charlotte area’s three largest health care systems — Atrium Health, Novant Health and CaroMont Health — teamed up Thursday to issue a rare joint warning about the surge in COVID-19 cases locally. That surge is largely fueled by high numbers of unvaccinated residents and the highly contagious delta variant of COVID-19.

The vast majority of COVID-19 hospitalizations and deaths lately are among unvaccinated people, according to the hospital groups.

Close to 1,000 people are currently hospitalized with COVID-19 in Charlotte-area hospitals in Atrium, Novant and CaroMont facilities, according to the hospital systems. CaroMont is based in Gastonia.

And 857 out of 933 hospitalized patients — or 92% — are unvaccinated. Just 76 of hospitalized COVID-19 patients are vaccinated.

Of 126 patients on life support, 122 — or 97% — are unvaccinated, according to the three hospital systems.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on September 02, 2021, 01:35:11 PM

Quote from: MU82 on September 02, 2021, 11:04:21 AM

From the Charlotte Observer:

Charlotte-area doctors issued dire warnings ahead of Labor Day weekend travel and gatherings, urging North Carolinians to get the COVID-19 vaccine amid a surge in coronavirus cases, hospitalizations and even deaths.

I am traveling to a tournament this weekend.

On the positive side, it will be outdoors and there will be plenty of room so people will not be crammed together.

On the negative side, it will be outdoors and is going to be hot as balls.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 02, 2021, 07:52:10 PM

Hard to argue with what this guy says, especially the part I bolded ...

A Mooresville man whose wife died of Stage IV breast cancer has drawn millions of views on TikTok after he blasted unvaccinated people for filling hospital beds needed by non-COVID patients like his wife.

Jason Arena says in the video that his wife, Marilyn Arena, was discharged after only two days because the hospital told the couple they needed the beds for people streaming in with COVID-19. He doesn’t name the hospital in his video.

As a result, he said, his wife never had fluid drained and other needed procedures.

Marilyn Arena died on Aug. 20, 15 days after he posted the video, Arena told local and national media outlets this week, including CNN and WBTV.

“Ninety-nine percent of everybody that’s in the hospital with COVID right now is unvaccinated,” Arena says in his Aug. 5 video, which has drawn about 5 million views. “If you really (vulgarity) believe that COVID is not real, and you really believe that’s not a big deal, and you really believe you don’t need to get the vaccine, that is your (vulgarity) right, OK? I’m not going to argue with you about that.

“What I am going to argue with you about is you running to the hospital once you get the virus,” he says. “If you don’t trust the medical field to prevent you from getting it, why do you trust them to cure you from it?

“ ... Stick to your (vulgarity) guns and keep your (vulgarity) ass at home. Stop running to the hospital and putting everybody else at risk,” he says in the video. “People like my wife ... get kicked out of the hospital because your dumb ass is too stupid to go get a vaccine shot.”

Yep. If you're gonna use the "it's my right to not get the vaccine" argument, then keep your dumb ass away from the hospital. Die at home, with dignity.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 02, 2021, 09:21:21 PM

“If you don’t trust the medical field to prevent you from getting it, why do you trust them to cure you from it?"

Very, very astute.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on September 02, 2021, 10:30:10 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on August 30, 2021, 08:49:30 AM

Comments or thoughts from the sciencers?

This new antibody can stop all COVID-19 strains, including new variants, experts say
https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus/2021/8/27/22643254/antibody-stops-covid-19-coronavirus-variants-delta-lambda

"A team of researchers may have found an antibody that can neutralize all known novel coronavirus strains, including the developing variants.

GlaxoSmithKline and Vir Biotechnology recently conducted a huge collaborative study by scientists and developed a new antibody therapy, called Sotrovimab. During the project, they discovered a new natural antibody “that has remarkable breadth and efficacy,” according to the Berkeley Lab."

Just seeing this now, as I've been a bit busy the last week.

A couple general thoughts, and comments to clarify what has been done.

First...no, nowhere near a cure for the common cold (even those caused by coronaviruses). These new antibodies are only specific to a clade of beta-coronaviruses closely related to SARS and SARS-COV2. The epitopes recognized by these antibodies are not conserved in other coronaviruses.

Second...this is not actually new news, the existence of these broadly effective neutralizing antibodies has been known and studied for awhile. What was new, and why there is now a new article, is that researchers were able to better understand the mechanism of action of some of these very broad-spectrum antibodies.

So a general question may be, if we knew of these, why haven't we been scaling them up as pharmaceuticals. We definitely can produce these on scale, but have largely not went down this road, because the focus for monoclonal antibodies has been on antibodies that demonstrate extremely potent neutralizing capacity.

In general, there is a tradeoff in getting more breadth in coverage (broader spectrum) and neutralizing potency; these are generally inversely correlated. So a potent monoclonal antibody will be significantly less potent.

The new research shows two things. 1) That there may be intermediate options, where you see an increase in breadth and still pretty high potency. In light of the number of escape variants out there now, a shift in focus to these types of antibodies might be warranted. Especially since it appears that viral mutations escaping these antibodies are rare, and appear to lead to less infectious strains. 2) They now understand the mechanism of action for antibodies with wide breadth. These typically target a region neglected in current pharmaceutical design, which means we might be able to design more potent versions that retain broad efficacy across the SARS-like virus family (sarbecoviruses).

So no magic bullet yet, but moving in the right direction. In addition, the number of new doors this research is opening will lead to countless new developments on treatments for many diseases, not just COVID.

In the meantime, science will keep on sciencing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on September 02, 2021, 10:35:22 PM

Quote from: forgetful on September 02, 2021, 10:30:10 PM

Just seeing this now, as I've been a bit busy the last week.

A couple general thoughts, and comments to clarify what has been done.

First...no, nowhere near a cure for the common cold (even those caused by coronaviruses). These new antibodies are only specific to a clade of beta-coronaviruses closely related to SARS and SARS-COV2. The epitopes recognized by these antibodies are not conserved in other coronaviruses.

Second...this is not actually new news, the existence of these broadly effective neutralizing antibodies has been known and studied for awhile. What was new, and why there is now a new article, is that researchers were able to better understand the mechanism of action of some of these very broad-spectrum antibodies.

So a general question may be, if we knew of these, why haven't we been scaling them up as pharmaceuticals. We definitely can produce these on scale, but have largely not went down this road, because the focus for monoclonal antibodies has been on antibodies that demonstrate extremely potent neutralizing capacity.

In general, there is a tradeoff in getting more breadth in coverage (broader spectrum) and neutralizing potency; these are generally inversely correlated. So a potent monoclonal antibody will be significantly less potent.

The new research shows two things. 1) That there may be intermediate options, where you see an increase in breadth and still pretty high potency. In light of the number of escape variants out there now, a shift in focus to these types of antibodies might be warranted. Especially since it appears that viral mutations escaping these antibodies are rare, and appear to lead to less infectious strains. 2) They now understand the mechanism of action for antibodies with wide breadth. These typically target a region neglected in current pharmaceutical design, which means we might be able to design more potent versions that retain broad efficacy across the SARS-like virus family (sarbecoviruses).

So no magic bullet yet, but moving in the right direction. In addition, the number of new doors this research is opening will lead to countless new developments on treatments for many diseases, not just COVID.

In the meantime, science will keep on sciencing.

Thanks for explaining this in (mostly) people terms.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on September 02, 2021, 10:39:33 PM

Quote from: forgetful on September 02, 2021, 10:30:10 PM

VERY INFORMATIVE POST ON ANTIBODIES AND ASSORTED CORONAVIRUSES

Thank you, that was awesome and very interesting.

Related question to the above story, is there any recourse for create hospital triage to move unvaccinated COVID patients to the back of the line?  Or some denial of care to them to not preclude others with serious conditions, who are vaccinated, from getting care?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on September 02, 2021, 10:59:56 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on September 02, 2021, 10:39:33 PM

Thank you, that was awesome and very interesting.

Related question to the above story, is there any recourse for create hospital triage to move unvaccinated COVID patients to the back of the line?  Or some denial of care to them to not preclude others with serious conditions, who are vaccinated, from getting care?

Thanks.

And regarding triage, this is just a guess, but I'd say no.

My personal opinion is that opens an ethical can of worms that I don't think people are ready to explore the consequences of that at this point.

Instead I think we will see more mandates or defacto-mandates in the near term. And at least amongst some of the young college age kids. We are now seeing that students who originally were anti-vax, change their tune when they see a friend either hospitalized, or out of school for a month because they got COVID at a party.

As you see more employers become less tolerant of employees missing work for extended periods, because they would't get vaccinated, we might see the same in other age demographics.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on September 03, 2021, 05:48:55 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on September 02, 2021, 10:39:33 PM

Thank you, that was awesome and very interesting.

Related question to the above story, is there any recourse for create hospital triage to move unvaccinated COVID patients to the back of the line?  Or some denial of care to them to not preclude others with serious conditions, who are vaccinated, from getting care?

once again, i don't think we should be neglecting those who have had covid.  they've walked the walk, regardless of vaccination status

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 03, 2021, 05:56:42 AM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on September 03, 2021, 05:48:55 AM

once again, i don't think we should be neglecting those who have had covid.  they've walked the walk, regardless of vaccination status

Their health insurance rates should be far far higher for starters.

Or maybe we can send the unvaccinated covid patients to the dentists offices of America, so that the rest of the responsible population can get back to living a normal life... instead of the 'new normal' the unvaccinated have pushed upon the rest of us.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on September 03, 2021, 07:02:17 AM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on September 03, 2021, 05:48:55 AM

once again, i don't think we should be neglecting those who have had covid.  they've walked the walk, regardless of vaccination status

I had it pretty bad.   What are you proposing to do for me?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 03, 2021, 08:21:10 AM

Idaho hospitals nearly buckling in relentless COVID surge

https://apnews.com/article/business-health-coronavirus-pandemic-idaho-09941b507483a5c7b0183dcbf03a8254?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Sep03_MorningWire&utm_term=Morning%20Wire%20Subscribers

With a critical shortage of hospital beds and staff and one of the nation’s lowest vaccination rates, Idaho health providers are growing desperate and preparing to follow crisis standards of care, which call for giving scarce resources to patients most likely to survive.

St. Luke’s Boise Medical Center invited The Associated Press into its restricted ICUs this week in hopes that sharing the dire reality would prompt people to change their behavior.

“There is so much loss here, and so much of it is preventable. I’m not just talking about loss of life. Ultimately, it’s like loss of hope,” said Dr. Jim Souza, chief medical officer. “When the vaccines came out in December, those of us in health care were like, ’Oh, my God, it’s like the cavalry coming over the hill. ... To see now what’s playing out? It’s all so needless.”

Inside the ICUs, Kristen Connelly and fellow nurses frequently gather to turn over each patient, careful to avoid disconnecting the tangle of tubes and wires keeping them alive. With breathing tubes, feeding tubes and half a dozen hanging bags of medications intended to halt a cascade of organ damage, turning a patient is a dangerous but necessary endeavor that happens twice a day.

When Idaho’s hospitals were nearly overwhelmed with coronavirus patients last winter, Connelly wasn’t fazed, believing she could make a difference. Now, instead of focusing on one patient at a time, she cares for multiple. Many colleagues have quit, burned out by the relentless demands of the pandemic.

“At this point, I’m overwhelmed. I don’t have much left,” the 26-year ICU nursing veteran said Tuesday.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on September 03, 2021, 08:30:05 AM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on September 03, 2021, 05:48:55 AM

once again, i don't think we should be neglecting those who have had covid.  they've walked the walk, regardless of vaccination status

I’ll entertain.  Vaccinations are a consistent dosage so they have an expected result and half-life. Antibodies from COVID infection are more varied and so someone saying “well I had COVID 3-4 months ago” means different things for different people.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 03, 2021, 09:59:06 AM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on September 03, 2021, 05:48:55 AM

once again, i don't think we should be neglecting those who have had covid.  they've walked the walk, regardless of vaccination status

Or maybe they could just get vaccinated like the CDC recommends.  There is nothing preventing them from doing so.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on September 03, 2021, 12:12:47 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on September 03, 2021, 09:59:06 AM

Or maybe they could just get vaccinated like the CDC recommends.  There is nothing preventing them from doing so.

yes of course, but "nothing" preventing them from doing so?  you don't know this

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on September 03, 2021, 12:19:23 PM

Quote from: tower912 on September 03, 2021, 07:02:17 AM

I had it pretty bad.   What are you proposing to do for me?

  thoughts and prayers ;)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on September 03, 2021, 12:27:23 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on September 03, 2021, 05:56:42 AM

Their health insurance rates should be far far higher for starters.

Or maybe we can send the unvaccinated covid patients to the dentists offices of America, so that the rest of the responsible population can get back to living a normal life... instead of the 'new normal' the unvaccinated have pushed upon the rest of us.

 so if one had covid, they should pay higher insurance rates and be sent to dental offices? 

judging from your reactions and responses, i'm not so sure you will ever have a "normal life"  take care of yourself, get vaccinated if you want(which i'm sure you already have) and wear a mask.  wear a shield and 2 masks...whatever.  if that doesn't protect you, sorry, there is not much more. 

should one be denied medical care, tests etc due to their political or religious beliefs?  how about sexual orientation? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 03, 2021, 12:35:49 PM

Rough times for MU.

Our basketball program hasn't won an NCAA tourney game since 2013, and now the latest COVID-19 variant is named after us!

A coronavirus variant known as “mu” or “B.1.621” was designated by the World Health Organization as a “variant of interest” earlier this week and will be monitored by the global health body as cases continue to emerge across parts of the world. It is the fifth variant of interest currently being monitored by the WHO.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/09/03/mu-coronavirus-variant-explained/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F34928ed%2F613249af9d2fda9bb7af3001%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F27%2F74%2F613249af9d2fda9bb7af3001

FYI, the article has free access.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on September 03, 2021, 12:42:35 PM

Quote from: MU82 on September 03, 2021, 12:35:49 PM

Rough times for MU.

Our basketball program hasn't won an NCAA tourney game since 2013, and now the latest COVID-19 variant is named after us!

A coronavirus variant known as “mu” or “B.1.621” was designated by the World Health Organization as a “variant of interest” earlier this week and will be monitored by the global health body as cases continue to emerge across parts of the world. It is the fifth variant of interest currently being monitored by the WHO.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/09/03/mu-coronavirus-variant-explained/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F34928ed%2F613249af9d2fda9bb7af3001%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F27%2F74%2F613249af9d2fda9bb7af3001

FYI, the article has free access.

Is it because this variant appears to be dangerous, but ends up being weaker than expected?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on September 03, 2021, 01:00:03 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on September 03, 2021, 12:27:23 PM

so if one had covid, they should pay higher insurance rates and be sent to dental offices? 

judging from your reactions and responses, i'm not so sure you will ever have a "normal life"  take care of yourself, get vaccinated if you want(which i'm sure you already have) and wear a mask.  wear a shield and 2 masks...whatever.  if that doesn't protect you, sorry, there is not much more. 

should one be denied medical care, tests etc due to their political or religious beliefs?  how about sexual orientation?

But when does it end?  So they say "I shouldnt be vaccinated cause I had COVID and antibodies"...so they just wait to get COVID again and restart?  You may have a semblance of an argument in the near term, but if the vaccinated population is getting boosters or further vaccinations (like flu or any other repeated vaccination) whats the counter argument?  They dont want it "yet" but will have no issues when their antibodies run out?  Seems unlikely to me.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: lawdog77 on September 03, 2021, 01:09:14 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on September 03, 2021, 12:42:35 PM

Is it because this variant appears to be dangerous, but ends up being weaker than expected?

If this strain is not managed properly, similar DNA strands can leave the body and affect their new hosts with the same condition as their previous host.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on September 03, 2021, 01:11:33 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on September 03, 2021, 12:42:35 PM

Is it because this variant appears to be dangerous, but ends up being weaker than expected?

And ladies and gentlemen, today's winner of the internet! Congrats!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on September 03, 2021, 02:22:51 PM

Quote from: warriorchick on September 03, 2021, 12:42:35 PM

Is it because this variant appears to be dangerous, but ends up being weaker than expected?

Do we have to worry about transfers?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 03, 2021, 02:59:28 PM

"I have COVID-19."

"Oh yeah, which variant?"

"MU."

"Rah-Rah!"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on September 03, 2021, 03:00:44 PM

Quote from: MU82 on September 03, 2021, 02:59:28 PM

"I have COVID-19."

"Oh yeah, which variant?"

"MU."

"Rah-Rah!"

Nice.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on September 03, 2021, 03:54:53 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on September 03, 2021, 01:00:03 PM

But when does it end?  So they say "I shouldnt be vaccinated cause I had COVID and antibodies"...so they just wait to get COVID again and restart?  You may have a semblance of an argument in the near term, but if the vaccinated population is getting boosters or further vaccinations (like flu or any other repeated vaccination) whats the counter argument?  They dont want it "yet" but will have no issues when their antibodies run out?  Seems unlikely to me.

  there are some who cannot get vaccine due to underlying medical issues and concerns

  some who are genuinely afraid

  some "black helicopter" types,

  some who just do not trust the "data"

                      forcing the vaccine on these does not alleviate their concerns and in some cases, makes it worse.  the numbers will eventually make these people irrelevant if the rest get vaccinated.  remember, the FDA does not have enough data for a booster(3rd) shot

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 03, 2021, 04:17:25 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on September 03, 2021, 03:54:53 PM

  there are some who cannot get vaccine due to underlying medical issues and concerns

  some who are genuinely afraid

  some "black helicopter" types,

  some who just do not trust the "data"

                      forcing the vaccine on these does not alleviate their concerns and in some cases, makes it worse.  the numbers will eventually make these people irrelevant if the rest get vaccinated.  remember, the FDA does not have enough data for a booster(3rd) shot

The only ones I have genuine concern about are those with medical conditions. The rest just need to get it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on September 03, 2021, 06:32:35 PM

Yes, underlying conditions is one thing.   Willful stupidity is a much bigger problem.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 03, 2021, 07:05:17 PM

Amazing stat of the day:

Twice as many people died yesterday, September 2 than died last year on September 2 WHEN THERE WAS NO VACCINE!!

I have long been of the belief that Americans are the most willfully stupid people on Earth. Can anyone convince me otherwise? Evidence?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on September 03, 2021, 07:08:17 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on September 03, 2021, 04:17:25 PM

The only ones I have genuine concern about are those with medical conditions. The rest just need to get it.

if you think/expect essentially 100% get the vaccine, you are being totally unrealistic.  we don't get 100% of anything even if we were giving out cars or anything else of worthwhile value

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 03, 2021, 07:13:15 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on September 03, 2021, 07:08:17 PM

if you think/expect essentially 100% get the vaccine, you are being totally unrealistic.  we don't get 100% of anything even if we were giving out cars or anything else of worthwhile value

Well, the average rate for measles/mumps/rubella vaccine for the 2018-2019 school year was 94.7% ... so I'd accept that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on September 03, 2021, 07:15:03 PM

Quote from: Jockey on September 03, 2021, 07:05:17 PM

Amazing stat of the day:

Twice as many people died yesterday, September 2 than died last year on September 2 WHEN THERE WAS NO VACCINE!!

I have long been of the belief that Americans are the most willfully stupid people on Earth. Can anyone convince me otherwise? Evidence?

   people who died are stupid??

     the amount of ignorance and intolerance here is breath taking.  you feel the same about abortion?  the dude riding a motorcycle without a helmit?  smokers?  the girl wearing very little or provocative clothing getting raped?

the vaccine minimizes infection and subsequently death, but wtf man?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 03, 2021, 07:24:43 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on September 03, 2021, 07:08:17 PM

if you think/expect essentially 100% get the vaccine, you are being totally unrealistic. 

I have never said that.  But thanks for dishonestly shifting the goalposts once again.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on September 03, 2021, 07:30:10 PM

 The cure was offered to everyone above the age of 12 for free.  Unvaccinated above 12 is now a conscious choice.   
So, yes, they have chosen willful stupidity.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on September 03, 2021, 07:35:28 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on September 03, 2021, 07:15:03 PM

   people who died are stupid??

     the amount of ignorance and intolerance here is breath taking.  you feel the same about abortion?  the dude riding a motorcycle without a helmit?  smokers?  the girl wearing very little or provocative clothing getting raped?

the vaccine minimizes infection and subsequently death, but wtf man?

One of these is not like the other...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 03, 2021, 07:47:54 PM

Quote from: Jockey on September 03, 2021, 07:05:17 PM

Amazing stat of the day:

Twice as many people died yesterday, September 2 than died last year on September 2 WHEN THERE WAS NO VACCINE!!

I have long been of the belief that Americans are the most willfully stupid people on Earth. Can anyone convince me otherwise? Evidence?

“I will not shut down the economy.  I will shut down the virus!!”  Amazing the lack of criticism going towards the Biden administration for not being able to better control a pandemic with 3 vaccines gifted to him.   

If 30% of the country isnt taking the carrot and still not doing the responsible thing when hit with a stick?!?!  Well time to bust out the hammer and start making things happen.  Right now he’s sitting ideally by while a couple 9/11s are happening every week!!!! 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on September 03, 2021, 08:04:37 PM

Confused, you are now pro mask, pro vax mandates?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 03, 2021, 08:27:08 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on September 03, 2021, 08:04:37 PM

Confused, you are now pro mask, pro vax mandates?

It doesn’t matter what I think.  He obviously doesn’t have the guts to do either.

If he’s been told federal mandates wouldn’t hold up in court then go back to lockdowns.  If he thinks the economy can’t handle that then use a some of that 3.5 trillion he’s trying to get passed to give everyone $5,000 to get the poke.  I don’t give a sh*t what it is he needs to do, he promised he’d handle this better then orange bad man.  And so far he’s handled it worse as Jockey pointed out earlier. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 03, 2021, 08:36:37 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 03, 2021, 07:47:54 PM

“I will not shut down the economy.  I will shut down the virus!!”  Amazing the lack of criticism going towards the Biden administration for not being able to better control a pandemic with 3 vaccines gifted to him.   

If 30% of the country isnt taking the carrot and still not doing the responsible thing when hit with a stick?!?!  Well time to bust out the hammer and start making things happen.  Right now he’s sitting ideally by while a couple 9/11s are happening every week!!!!

These people are fighting against people getting the vaccine or wearing masks - sometimes violently - but it’s Biden’s fault they are ignorant? Yeah, makes sense.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 03, 2021, 08:49:20 PM

Quote from: Jockey on September 03, 2021, 08:36:37 PM

These people are fighting against people getting the vaccine or wearing masks - sometimes violently - but it’s Biden’s fault they are ignorant? Yeah, makes sense.

As the old man recently said, the buck stops with him.  His job is to figure out a way to get these people past their ignorance, that’s why he’s the President.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on September 03, 2021, 09:11:56 PM

Quote from: MU82 on September 03, 2021, 07:13:15 PM

Well, the average rate for measles/mumps/rubella vaccine for the 2018-2019 school year was 94.7% ... so I'd accept that.

Duke had a 98% vaccination rate and they still shut stuff down/got strict due to cases. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on September 03, 2021, 09:26:28 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 03, 2021, 07:47:54 PM

“I will not shut down the economy.  I will shut down the virus!!”  Amazing the lack of criticism going towards the Biden administration for not being able to better control a pandemic with 3 vaccines gifted to him.   

If 30% of the country isnt taking the carrot and still not doing the responsible thing when hit with a stick?!?!  Well time to bust out the hammer and start making things happen.  Right now he’s sitting ideally by while a couple 9/11s are happening every week!!!!

This is strange.

You're gonna be mad if he does nothing. And mad if he goes authoritarian.

So...?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 03, 2021, 09:30:46 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on September 03, 2021, 09:26:28 PM

This is strange.

You're gonna be mad if he does nothing. And mad if he goes authoritarian.

So...?

I am mad he’s doing nothing after promising everything.  There is a lot of room between nothing and full blown authoritarianism, let’s start with something to get the ball rolling, anything really.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on September 03, 2021, 10:18:09 PM

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/03/us/oscar-de-la-hoya-covid-spt-intl/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/03/us/oscar-de-la-hoya-covid-spt-intl/index.html)

Oscar de la Hoya, fully vaccinated, athlete in peak shape. Hospitalized with COVID.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 03, 2021, 10:50:02 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on September 03, 2021, 09:11:56 PM

Duke had a 98% vaccination rate and they still shut stuff down/got strict due to cases.

Ok.

roQQet suggested it was unrealistic to expect a huge percentage of Americans to get the vaccine. I pointed out how 95% of American kids get vaccinated.

And now you just pointed out that Duke got a nearly 100% vaccination rate … so thanks!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on September 03, 2021, 11:09:40 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on September 03, 2021, 07:24:43 PM

I have never said that.  But thanks for dishonestly shifting the goalposts once again.

  just own it man, no big deal-

ok hair splitter-let's just say those with medical conditions are very few, which it is

  then, "the rest" is essentially as close to everyone getting the vaccine (100%) as you can get, right?

dishonesty?  whatever...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on September 03, 2021, 11:17:59 PM

Quote from: MU82 on September 03, 2021, 10:50:02 PM

Ok.

roQQet suggested it was unrealistic to expect a huge percentage of Americans to get the vaccine. I pointed out how 95% of American kids get vaccinated.

And now you just pointed out that Duke got a nearly 100% vaccination rate … so thanks!

ok retired "journalist" if you are going to use these models to project the rest of the american population being vaccinated, well retired explains a lot.  maybe tired is more like it. 

   100% is everyone, eyn'a?  it ain't gonna happen even if they have free ice cream, a free bouncy on uncle joey's lap, or a hair sniff and pet his dog, ya ain't gonna see 100%

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on September 03, 2021, 11:26:55 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 03, 2021, 09:30:46 PM

I am mad he’s doing nothing after promising everything.  There is a lot of room between nothing and full blown authoritarianism, let’s start with something to get the ball rolling, anything really.

I got my two vaccine shots expeditiously with a minimum of muss and fuss. After a year of nonsense I've seen reasonable leadership regarding the pandemic and trying to deal with the refusal of the Know Nothings to get vaccinated. Hell I'm even getting my mail on time. Thank you Mr. President.
I'd wouldn't mind seeing more mandates imposed to deal with the fools but I suspect if that happened guys like PaceArrow would be at the front of the line bitching about their rights. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on September 04, 2021, 06:43:50 AM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on September 03, 2021, 07:15:03 PM

   people who died are stupid??

     the amount of ignorance and intolerance here is breath taking.  you feel the same about abortion?  the dude riding a motorcycle without a helmit?  smokers?  the girl wearing very little or provocative clothing getting raped?

the vaccine minimizes infection and subsequently death, but wtf man?

HO.LI.unnatural carnal knowledge

Straight out of 1958's "she was asking for it"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on September 04, 2021, 06:54:18 AM

Quote from: Jockey on September 03, 2021, 07:05:17 PM

Amazing stat of the day:

Twice as many people died yesterday, September 2 than died last year on September 2 WHEN THERE WAS NO VACCINE!!

I have long been of the belief that Americans are the most willfully stupid people on Earth. Can anyone convince me otherwise? Evidence?

I would describe it as willfully ignorant. I don't think Americans are any stupider than anywhere else on earth if you measure raw intelligence. In the last 30 years or so, however, there has been a massive effort to propagandize and radicalize a large section of the population for the perpetrators' gain financially and politically.

In short, stir up the marks for money and power. Technology tools have simply turbocharged their ability to do so.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 04, 2021, 07:44:15 AM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on September 03, 2021, 11:17:59 PM

ok retired "journalist" if you are going to use these models to project the rest of the american population being vaccinated, well retired explains a lot.  maybe tired is more like it. 

   100% is everyone, eyn'a?  it ain't gonna happen even if they have free ice cream, a free bouncy on uncle joey's lap, or a hair sniff and pet his dog, ya ain't gonna see 100%

Ah. I was giving you credit for using "100%" as hyperbole, as a synonym for "the vast majority."

My bad. I promise that I will never again give you credit for being able to articulate something intelligently.

So you're right, there will never be a 100% vaccination rate for COVID-19. I don't know of a single Scooper who ever has expressed that expectation, nor a single scientist who has said that was necessary to rid us of this deadly, highly contagious virus that, 1 1/2 years later, still has not "gone away, like a miracle."

Again, I would happily settle for the same percentage of children who are vaccinated every year for MMR, hep-B, etc, so that they can live happy, healthy lives and so that we can keep the plague of those horrific diseases from hurting our society ever again.

I am grateful that we don't have tens of millions of parents shouting "FREEDOM!" and refusing to get their kids vaccinated, and grateful that we don't have misinformed fellow citizens defending their right to refuse to keep all of our kids happy and healthy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on September 04, 2021, 10:52:59 AM

Quote from: MU82 on September 03, 2021, 07:13:15 PM

Well, the average rate for measles/mumps/rubella vaccine for the 2018-2019 school year was 94.7% ... so I'd accept that.

And 65+ plus are near 100% for COVID in most states. Let's face it, this isn't a Trump v. Biden problem, or a Lib vs. Conservative or what Cable news channel you watch. This is a Millennial and Zoomer problem, despite what Hards wants to blame on the Boomers. These are the most educated, most affluent and most diverse age groups in human history. Go get the effin shot!

https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/vaccine-tracker

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on September 04, 2021, 11:52:28 AM

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on September 04, 2021, 10:52:59 AM

And 65+ plus are near 100% for COVID in most states. Let's face it, this isn't a Trump v. Biden problem, or a Lib vs. Conservative or what Cable news channel you watch. This is a Millennial and Zoomer problem, despite what Hards wants to blame on the Boomers. These are the most educated, most affluent and most diverse age groups in human history. Go get the effin shot!

https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/vaccine-tracker

Now break down the millennial/zoomer category into subcategories. Then we can talk.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on September 04, 2021, 03:10:18 PM

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on September 04, 2021, 10:52:59 AM

And 65+ plus are near 100% for COVID in most states. Let's face it, this isn't a Trump v. Biden problem, or a Lib vs. Conservative or what Cable news channel you watch. This is a Millennial and Zoomer problem, despite what Hards wants to blame on the Boomers. These are the most educated, most affluent and most diverse age groups in human history. Go get the effin shot!

https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/vaccine-tracker

Overlay that map with % of votes for each Presidential candidate.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 04, 2021, 05:13:28 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on September 04, 2021, 03:10:18 PM

Overlay that map with % of votes for each Presidential candidate.

Of course. Some here refuse to believe everything they see with their own eyes (Jan.6 was just a bunch of friendly tourists), and pretend it is not political.

"Last year, the republican Legislature went to court to end unlawful Covid-19 mandates issued by Governor Evers’ Department of Health Services," Mikalsen (a spokesman for Nass said in an email. "Senator Nass opposes unlawful Covid-19 mandates issued by any state agency regardless of if they are led by a Democrat appointee or a former Republican governor."

Later, Nass added he thought some of his colleagues had "gone soft" and would only oppose the mandates when they were "issued by the other party."

The very definition of political.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 05, 2021, 07:45:55 AM

U.S. covid death toll hits 1,500 a day amid delta scourge

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/09/03/delta-deaths-us-fourth-wave/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F34958cb%2F613394579d2fda9bb7b16293%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F15%2F74%2F613394579d2fda9bb7b16293

Brian Pierce, the coroner in Baldwin County, Ala., thought he had seen the last of the coronavirus months ago as the area’s death count held steady at 318 for most of the spring and summer. But then in July and August, the fatalities began mounting and last week, things got so bad, the state rolled a trailer into his parking lot as a temporary morgue.

“I think most people were thinking, ‘We’re good,’ ” he said. “Life was almost back to normal. Now, I’m telling my kids again to please stay home.”

Nationally, covid-19 deaths have climbed steadily in recent weeks, hitting a seven-day average of about 1,500 a day Thursday, after falling to the low 200s in early July — the latest handiwork of a contagious variant that has exploited the return to everyday activities by tens of millions of Americans, many of them unvaccinated. The dead include two Texas teachers at a junior high, who died last week within days of each other; a 13-year-old middle schoolboy from Georgia; and a nurse, 37, in Southern California who left behind five children, including a newborn.

What is different about this fourth pandemic wave in the United States is that the growing rates of vaccination and natural immunity have broken the relationship between infections and deaths in many areas.

The daily count of new infections is rising in almost every part of the country, according to data tracked by The Washington Post. But only some places — mostly Southern states with lower vaccination rates — are seeing a parallel surge in deaths. The seven-day average of daily deaths is about a third of what it was in January, the pandemic’s most deadly month, but it is forecast to continue rising as high numbers of patients are hospitalized.

Florida daily deaths have averaged 325 over the past week, alongside almost 20,000 new daily infections on average. Despite resistance from local school boards, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) has fought to enforce his ban on mask mandates and made good on a threat to withhold salaries from some of them this week even after a judge ruled the ban unconstitutional.

David Wesley Dowdy, an epidemiologist at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, said: “The driving factor in the current wave is human behavior — how people interact and how people respond to risk — and that is really very unpredictable."

Virtually every time that humans have underestimated the virus and let down their guard, deaths surged.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on September 06, 2021, 07:07:24 AM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on September 03, 2021, 11:17:59 PM

ok retired "journalist" if you are going to use these models to project the rest of the american population being vaccinated, well retired explains a lot.  maybe tired is more like it. 

   100% is everyone, eyn'a?  it ain't gonna happen even if they have free ice cream, a free bouncy on uncle joey's lap, or a hair sniff and pet his dog, ya ain't gonna see 100%

What if we let them grab them by the p*ssy?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 07, 2021, 09:41:58 AM

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.onlineathens.com/amp/5745397001

Over 90% vaccinated and program is seeing its worst spike.  Seems like from the article all the positive cases are amongst the vaccinated too, not the handful % of unvaccinated.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 07, 2021, 09:49:34 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/R_H_Ebright/status/1435053515785662464

Ahhh, it seems there’s a good chance Fauci lied under oath.  Hard to argue after reading this that the NIH wasn’t actively involved and help fund the very gain of function research that led to creation of C19 that he told Congress they had nothing to do with.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on September 07, 2021, 10:12:39 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 07, 2021, 09:41:58 AM

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.onlineathens.com/amp/5745397001

Over 90% vaccinated and program is seeing its worst spike.  Seems like from the article all the positive cases are amongst the vaccinated too, not the handful % of unvaccinated.

Wait ... are you suggesting that vaccinated people can still get the virus, especially when in close contact with the unvaccinated?

(https://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Mind-Blown-Chris-Pratt.gif)

Honestly, what's your point? (If you have one)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on September 07, 2021, 11:02:44 AM

Appears there are consequences when you are the least vaccinated state--for the unvaccinated and vaccinated alike.

Idaho enacts crisis hospital care standards amid COVID surge

"BOISE, Idaho (AP) — Idaho public health leaders activated “crisis standards of care” for the state’s northern hospitals because there are more coronavirus patients than the institutions can handle.

The Idaho Department of Health and Welfare quietly enacted the move Monday and publicly announced it in a statement Tuesday morning — warning residents that they may not get the care they would normally expect if they need to be hospitalized.

“Crisis standards of care is a last resort. It means we have exhausted our resources to the point that our healthcare systems are unable to provide the treatment and care we expect,” Idaho Department of Health and Welfare Director Dave Jeppesen said in a statement.

He added: “This is a decision I was fervently hoping to avoid. The best tools we have to turn this around is for more people to get vaccinated and to wear masks indoors and in outdoor crowded public places. Please choose to get vaccinated as soon as possible – it is your very best protection against being hospitalized from COVID-19.”


Of course, some "healthcare professionals" say not getting vaccinated is a perfectly reasonable choice. After all, the unvaccinated can just take HCQ and ivermectin to heal themselves, no problem.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on September 07, 2021, 11:04:05 AM

Yikes. But being unvaccinated only impacts you.  ::)

A Florida fire chief has died from COVID-19 after the virus sidelined 75 percent of his department last month.

Officials in Lake City said they do not know whether Fire Chief Randy Burnham, who died Sunday after battling the virus for several weeks, had been vaccinated.

Only 33 percent of residents in Columbia County, where Lake City is situated, have been vaccinated, according to the New York Times.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on September 07, 2021, 11:22:25 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 07, 2021, 09:49:34 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/R_H_Ebright/status/1435053515785662464

Ahhh, it seems there’s a good chance Fauci lied under oath.  Hard to argue after reading this that the NIH wasn’t actively involved and help fund the very gain of function research that led to creation of C19 that he told Congress they had nothing to do with.

Trolls going to troll.

Sealioning.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 07, 2021, 11:27:01 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on September 07, 2021, 10:12:39 AM

Wait ... are you suggesting that vaccinated people can still get the virus, especially when in close contact with the unvaccinated?

(https://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Mind-Blown-Chris-Pratt.gif)

Honestly, what's your point? (If you have one)

Point is we need to stop counting/worrying about positive cases.  No way we’re moving on from this until we shift focus to hospitalizations and deaths.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 07, 2021, 11:27:48 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on September 07, 2021, 11:04:05 AM

Yikes. But being unvaccinated only impacts you.  ::)

A Florida fire chief has died from COVID-19 after the virus sidelined 75 percent of his department last month.

Officials in Lake City said they do not know whether Fire Chief Randy Burnham, who died Sunday after battling the virus for several weeks, had been vaccinated.

Only 33 percent of residents in Columbia County, where Lake City is situated, have been vaccinated, according to the New York Times.

Don't worry ... DeSantis is on it!

Even as we speak, he is hastily putting together a way to take away women's reproductive rights while blaming immigrants at the Texas border and Biden for Florida being Covid Death Central.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on September 07, 2021, 11:52:03 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 07, 2021, 11:27:01 AM

Point is we need to stop counting/worrying about positive cases.  No way we’re moving on from this until we shift focus to hospitalizations and deaths.

We largely have.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on September 07, 2021, 12:01:27 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 07, 2021, 11:27:01 AM

Point is we need to stop counting/worrying about positive cases.  No way we’re moving on from this until we shift focus to hospitalizations and deaths.

And which group is currently more likely to encounter hospitalizations and/or death?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on September 07, 2021, 12:46:46 PM

The New York Times morning newsletter had some interesting summary data.  As we already know: get vaccinated!

---

By David Leonhardt
Good morning. We explain the exaggerated fears about breakthrough infections.

One in 5,000
The C.D.C. reported a terrifying fact in July: Vaccinated people with the Delta variant of the Covid virus carried roughly the same viral load in their noses and throats as unvaccinated people.

The news seemed to suggest that even the vaccinated were highly vulnerable to getting infected and passing the virus to others. Sure enough, stories about vaccinated people getting Covid — so-called breakthrough infections — were all around this summer: at a party in Provincetown, Mass.; among the Chicago Cubs; on Capitol Hill. Delta seemed as if it might be changing everything.

In recent weeks, however, more data has become available, and it suggests that the true picture is less alarming. Yes, Delta has increased the chances of getting Covid for almost everyone. But if you’re vaccinated, a Covid infection is still uncommon, and those high viral loads are not as worrisome as they initially sounded.

How small are the chances of the average vaccinated American contracting Covid? Probably about one in 5,000 per day, and even lower for people who take precautions or live in a highly vaccinated community.

Or maybe one in 10,000
The estimates here are based on statistics from three places that have reported detailed data on Covid infections by vaccination status: Utah; Virginia; and King County, which includes Seattle, in Washington state. All three are consistent with the idea that about one in 5,000 vaccinated Americans have tested positive for Covid each day in recent weeks.

The chances are surely higher in the places with the worst Covid outbreaks, like the Southeast. And in places with many fewer cases — like the Northeast, as well as the Chicago, Los Angeles and San Francisco areas — the chances are lower, probably less than 1 in 10,000. That’s what the Seattle data shows, for example. (These numbers don’t include undiagnosed cases, which are often so mild that people do not notice them and do not pass the virus to anyone else.)

Here’s one way to think about a one-in-10,000 daily chance: It would take more than three months for the combined risk to reach just 1 percent.

“There’s been a lot of miscommunication about what the risks really are to vaccinated people, and how vaccinated people should be thinking about their lives,” as Dr. Ashish Jha of Brown University told my colleague Tara Parker-Pope. (I recommend Tara’s recent Q. and A. on breakthrough infections.)

For the unvaccinated, of course, the chances of infection are far higher, as Dr. Jeffrey Duchin, the top public-health official in Seattle, has noted. Those chances have also risen much more since Delta began spreading:
(http://Daily Average)

Source: Washington State Department of Health
Another way to understand the situation is to compare each state’s vaccination rate with its recent daily Covid infection rate. The infection rates in the least vaccinated states are about four times as high as in the most vaccinated states:

Data as of Sept. 2; cases are the 7-day daily average. The New York Times
(http://120 cases per 100,000)

If the entire country had received shots at the same rate as the Northeast or California, the current Delta wave would be a small fraction of its current size. Delta is a problem. Vaccine hesitancy is a bigger problem.

The science, in brief
These numbers help show why the talking point about viral loads was problematic. It was one of those statements that managed to be both true and misleading. Even when the size of the viral loads are similar, the virus behaves differently in the noses and throats of the vaccinated and the unvaccinated.

In an unvaccinated person, a viral load is akin to an enemy army facing little resistance. In a vaccinated person, the human immune system launches a powerful response and tends to prevail quickly — often before the host body gets sick or infects others. That the viral loads were initially similar in size can end up being irrelevant.

I will confess to one bit of hesitation about walking you through the data on breakthrough infections: It’s not clear how much we should be worrying about them. For the vaccinated, Covid resembles the flu and usually a mild one. Society does not ground to a halt over the flu.

In Britain, many people have become comfortable with the current Covid risks. The vaccines make serious illness rare in adults, and the risks to young children are so low that Britain may never recommend that most receive the vaccine. Letting the virus continue to dominate life, on the other hand, has large costs.

“There’s a feeling that finally we can breathe; we can start trying to get back what we’ve lost,” Devi Sridhar, the head of the global public health program at the University of Edinburgh, told The Times.

I know that many Americans feel differently. Our level of Covid anxiety is higher, especially in communities that lean to the left politically. And there is no “correct” response to Covid. Different people respond to risk differently.

But at least one part of the American anxiety does seem to have become disconnected from the facts in recent weeks: the effectiveness of the vaccines. In a new ABC News/Washington Post poll, nearly half of adults judged their “risk of getting sick from the coronavirus” as either moderate or high — even though 75 percent of adults have received at least one shot.

In reality, the risks of getting any version of the virus remain small for the vaccinated, and the risks of getting badly sick remain minuscule.

In Seattle on an average recent day, about one out of every one million vaccinated residents have been admitted to a hospital with Covid symptoms. That risk is so close to zero that the human mind can’t easily process it. My best attempt is to say that the Covid risks for most vaccinated people are of the same order of magnitude as risks that people unthinkingly accept every day, like riding in a vehicle.

The bottom line
Delta really has changed the course of the pandemic. It is far more contagious than earlier versions of the virus and calls for precautions that were not necessary a couple of months ago, like wearing masks in some indoor situations.

But even with Delta, the overall risks for the vaccinated remain extremely small. As Dr. Monica Gandhi, an infectious-disease specialist at the University of California, San Francisco, wrote on Friday, “The messaging over the last month in the U.S. has basically served to terrify the vaccinated and make unvaccinated eligible adults doubt the effectiveness of the vaccines.” Neither of those views is warranted.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on September 07, 2021, 02:28:48 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on September 07, 2021, 12:46:46 PM

The New York Times morning newsletter had some interesting summary data.  As we already know: get vaccinated!

---

By David Leonhardt
Good morning. We explain the exaggerated fears about breakthrough infections.

One in 5,000
The C.D.C. reported a terrifying fact in July: Vaccinated people with the Delta variant of the Covid virus carried roughly the same viral load in their noses and throats as unvaccinated people.

The news seemed to suggest that even the vaccinated were highly vulnerable to getting infected and passing the virus to others. Sure enough, stories about vaccinated people getting Covid — so-called breakthrough infections — were all around this summer: at a party in Provincetown, Mass.; among the Chicago Cubs; on Capitol Hill. Delta seemed as if it might be changing everything.

In recent weeks, however, more data has become available, and it suggests that the true picture is less alarming. Yes, Delta has increased the chances of getting Covid for almost everyone. But if you’re vaccinated, a Covid infection is still uncommon, and those high viral loads are not as worrisome as they initially sounded.

How small are the chances of the average vaccinated American contracting Covid? Probably about one in 5,000 per day, and even lower for people who take precautions or live in a highly vaccinated community.

Or maybe one in 10,000
The estimates here are based on statistics from three places that have reported detailed data on Covid infections by vaccination status: Utah; Virginia; and King County, which includes Seattle, in Washington state. All three are consistent with the idea that about one in 5,000 vaccinated Americans have tested positive for Covid each day in recent weeks.

The chances are surely higher in the places with the worst Covid outbreaks, like the Southeast. And in places with many fewer cases — like the Northeast, as well as the Chicago, Los Angeles and San Francisco areas — the chances are lower, probably less than 1 in 10,000. That’s what the Seattle data shows, for example. (These numbers don’t include undiagnosed cases, which are often so mild that people do not notice them and do not pass the virus to anyone else.)

Here’s one way to think about a one-in-10,000 daily chance: It would take more than three months for the combined risk to reach just 1 percent.

“There’s been a lot of miscommunication about what the risks really are to vaccinated people, and how vaccinated people should be thinking about their lives,” as Dr. Ashish Jha of Brown University told my colleague Tara Parker-Pope. (I recommend Tara’s recent Q. and A. on breakthrough infections.)

For the unvaccinated, of course, the chances of infection are far higher, as Dr. Jeffrey Duchin, the top public-health official in Seattle, has noted. Those chances have also risen much more since Delta began spreading:
(http://Daily Average)

Source: Washington State Department of Health
Another way to understand the situation is to compare each state’s vaccination rate with its recent daily Covid infection rate. The infection rates in the least vaccinated states are about four times as high as in the most vaccinated states:

Data as of Sept. 2; cases are the 7-day daily average. The New York Times
(http://120 cases per 100,000)

If the entire country had received shots at the same rate as the Northeast or California, the current Delta wave would be a small fraction of its current size. Delta is a problem. Vaccine hesitancy is a bigger problem.

The science, in brief
These numbers help show why the talking point about viral loads was problematic. It was one of those statements that managed to be both true and misleading. Even when the size of the viral loads are similar, the virus behaves differently in the noses and throats of the vaccinated and the unvaccinated.

In an unvaccinated person, a viral load is akin to an enemy army facing little resistance. In a vaccinated person, the human immune system launches a powerful response and tends to prevail quickly — often before the host body gets sick or infects others. That the viral loads were initially similar in size can end up being irrelevant.

I will confess to one bit of hesitation about walking you through the data on breakthrough infections: It’s not clear how much we should be worrying about them. For the vaccinated, Covid resembles the flu and usually a mild one. Society does not ground to a halt over the flu.

In Britain, many people have become comfortable with the current Covid risks. The vaccines make serious illness rare in adults, and the risks to young children are so low that Britain may never recommend that most receive the vaccine. Letting the virus continue to dominate life, on the other hand, has large costs.

“There’s a feeling that finally we can breathe; we can start trying to get back what we’ve lost,” Devi Sridhar, the head of the global public health program at the University of Edinburgh, told The Times.

I know that many Americans feel differently. Our level of Covid anxiety is higher, especially in communities that lean to the left politically. And there is no “correct” response to Covid. Different people respond to risk differently.

But at least one part of the American anxiety does seem to have become disconnected from the facts in recent weeks: the effectiveness of the vaccines. In a new ABC News/Washington Post poll, nearly half of adults judged their “risk of getting sick from the coronavirus” as either moderate or high — even though 75 percent of adults have received at least one shot.

In reality, the risks of getting any version of the virus remain small for the vaccinated, and the risks of getting badly sick remain minuscule.

In Seattle on an average recent day, about one out of every one million vaccinated residents have been admitted to a hospital with Covid symptoms. That risk is so close to zero that the human mind can’t easily process it. My best attempt is to say that the Covid risks for most vaccinated people are of the same order of magnitude as risks that people unthinkingly accept every day, like riding in a vehicle.

The bottom line
Delta really has changed the course of the pandemic. It is far more contagious than earlier versions of the virus and calls for precautions that were not necessary a couple of months ago, like wearing masks in some indoor situations.

But even with Delta, the overall risks for the vaccinated remain extremely small. As Dr. Monica Gandhi, an infectious-disease specialist at the University of California, San Francisco, wrote on Friday, “The messaging over the last month in the U.S. has basically served to terrify the vaccinated and make unvaccinated eligible adults doubt the effectiveness of the vaccines.” Neither of those views is warranted.

Great sentiment and I hope it hits.  Dr Gandhi's tweets were informative and reasonable and still her replies were filled with people calling her reckless and selfish.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 07, 2021, 03:18:09 PM

Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on September 07, 2021, 12:46:46 PM

The New York Times morning newsletter had some interesting summary data.  As we already know: get vaccinated!

---

By David Leonhardt
Good morning. We explain the exaggerated fears about breakthrough infections.

One in 5,000
The C.D.C. reported a terrifying fact in July: Vaccinated people with the Delta variant of the Covid virus carried roughly the same viral load in their noses and throats as unvaccinated people.

The news seemed to suggest that even the vaccinated were highly vulnerable to getting infected and passing the virus to others. Sure enough, stories about vaccinated people getting Covid — so-called breakthrough infections — were all around this summer: at a party in Provincetown, Mass.; among the Chicago Cubs; on Capitol Hill. Delta seemed as if it might be changing everything.

In recent weeks, however, more data has become available, and it suggests that the true picture is less alarming. Yes, Delta has increased the chances of getting Covid for almost everyone. But if you’re vaccinated, a Covid infection is still uncommon, and those high viral loads are not as worrisome as they initially sounded.

How small are the chances of the average vaccinated American contracting Covid? Probably about one in 5,000 per day, and even lower for people who take precautions or live in a highly vaccinated community.

Or maybe one in 10,000
The estimates here are based on statistics from three places that have reported detailed data on Covid infections by vaccination status: Utah; Virginia; and King County, which includes Seattle, in Washington state. All three are consistent with the idea that about one in 5,000 vaccinated Americans have tested positive for Covid each day in recent weeks.

The chances are surely higher in the places with the worst Covid outbreaks, like the Southeast. And in places with many fewer cases — like the Northeast, as well as the Chicago, Los Angeles and San Francisco areas — the chances are lower, probably less than 1 in 10,000. That’s what the Seattle data shows, for example. (These numbers don’t include undiagnosed cases, which are often so mild that people do not notice them and do not pass the virus to anyone else.)

Here’s one way to think about a one-in-10,000 daily chance: It would take more than three months for the combined risk to reach just 1 percent.

“There’s been a lot of miscommunication about what the risks really are to vaccinated people, and how vaccinated people should be thinking about their lives,” as Dr. Ashish Jha of Brown University told my colleague Tara Parker-Pope. (I recommend Tara’s recent Q. and A. on breakthrough infections.)

For the unvaccinated, of course, the chances of infection are far higher, as Dr. Jeffrey Duchin, the top public-health official in Seattle, has noted. Those chances have also risen much more since Delta began spreading:
(http://Daily Average)

Source: Washington State Department of Health
Another way to understand the situation is to compare each state’s vaccination rate with its recent daily Covid infection rate. The infection rates in the least vaccinated states are about four times as high as in the most vaccinated states:

Data as of Sept. 2; cases are the 7-day daily average. The New York Times
(http://120 cases per 100,000)

If the entire country had received shots at the same rate as the Northeast or California, the current Delta wave would be a small fraction of its current size. Delta is a problem. Vaccine hesitancy is a bigger problem.

The science, in brief
These numbers help show why the talking point about viral loads was problematic. It was one of those statements that managed to be both true and misleading. Even when the size of the viral loads are similar, the virus behaves differently in the noses and throats of the vaccinated and the unvaccinated.

In an unvaccinated person, a viral load is akin to an enemy army facing little resistance. In a vaccinated person, the human immune system launches a powerful response and tends to prevail quickly — often before the host body gets sick or infects others. That the viral loads were initially similar in size can end up being irrelevant.

I will confess to one bit of hesitation about walking you through the data on breakthrough infections: It’s not clear how much we should be worrying about them. For the vaccinated, Covid resembles the flu and usually a mild one. Society does not ground to a halt over the flu.

In Britain, many people have become comfortable with the current Covid risks. The vaccines make serious illness rare in adults, and the risks to young children are so low that Britain may never recommend that most receive the vaccine. Letting the virus continue to dominate life, on the other hand, has large costs.

“There’s a feeling that finally we can breathe; we can start trying to get back what we’ve lost,” Devi Sridhar, the head of the global public health program at the University of Edinburgh, told The Times.

I know that many Americans feel differently. Our level of Covid anxiety is higher, especially in communities that lean to the left politically. And there is no “correct” response to Covid. Different people respond to risk differently.

But at least one part of the American anxiety does seem to have become disconnected from the facts in recent weeks: the effectiveness of the vaccines. In a new ABC News/Washington Post poll, nearly half of adults judged their “risk of getting sick from the coronavirus” as either moderate or high — even though 75 percent of adults have received at least one shot.

In reality, the risks of getting any version of the virus remain small for the vaccinated, and the risks of getting badly sick remain minuscule.

In Seattle on an average recent day, about one out of every one million vaccinated residents have been admitted to a hospital with Covid symptoms. That risk is so close to zero that the human mind can’t easily process it. My best attempt is to say that the Covid risks for most vaccinated people are of the same order of magnitude as risks that people unthinkingly accept every day, like riding in a vehicle.

The bottom line
Delta really has changed the course of the pandemic. It is far more contagious than earlier versions of the virus and calls for precautions that were not necessary a couple of months ago, like wearing masks in some indoor situations.

But even with Delta, the overall risks for the vaccinated remain extremely small. As Dr. Monica Gandhi, an infectious-disease specialist at the University of California, San Francisco, wrote on Friday, “The messaging over the last month in the U.S. has basically served to terrify the vaccinated and make unvaccinated eligible adults doubt the effectiveness of the vaccines.” Neither of those views is warranted.

I just saw this, too, and you beat me to posting it. Glad you did. It reinforced most of what I believe, and it did make me feel better.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Billy Hoyle on September 07, 2021, 08:49:08 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on September 07, 2021, 02:28:48 PM

Great sentiment and I hope it hits.  Dr Gandhi's tweets were informative and reasonable and still her replies were filled with people calling her reckless and selfish.

There’s a cottage industry when it comes to COVID fear porn.

https://taibbi.substack.com/p/moral-majority-media-strikes-again-cd2

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on September 07, 2021, 09:01:31 PM

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on September 07, 2021, 08:49:08 PM

There’s a cottage industry when it comes to COVID fear porn.

https://taibbi.substack.com/p/moral-majority-media-strikes-again-cd2

Some hardcore entrepreneurs that post here quite frequently.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on September 08, 2021, 05:49:06 AM

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on September 07, 2021, 08:49:08 PM

There’s a cottage industry when it comes to COVID fear porn.

https://taibbi.substack.com/p/moral-majority-media-strikes-again-cd2

was it too difficult to do a minimum of research here?  ohhh no need eyn'a cuz they saw it on twitter.  it had to be true and besides, it fit their narratives perfectly.  just as in so many other similar episodes of bad "journalism"  nothing is ever learned from this as they probably still stand by their stories

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on September 08, 2021, 06:43:55 AM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on September 08, 2021, 05:49:06 AM

was it too difficult to do a minimum of research here?  ohhh no need eyn'a cuz they saw it on twitter.  it had to be true and besides, it fit their narratives perfectly.  just as in so many other similar episodes of bad "journalism"  nothing is ever learned from this as they probably still stand by their stories

Use of punctuation is a negative but the air quotes brings it home nicely.  Not your best work.  6 of 10

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on September 08, 2021, 07:02:07 AM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on September 08, 2021, 06:43:55 AM

Use of punctuation is a negative but the air quotes brings it home nicely.  Not your best work.  6 of 10

The overwhelming irony of the entire post, however, forces me to give the effort high marks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on September 08, 2021, 07:03:36 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on September 08, 2021, 07:02:07 AM

The overwhelming irony of his last statement, however, forces me to give the effort high marks.

Lack of unhinged conspiracy theories and random attacks on Joy Behar hurt the effort

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on September 08, 2021, 09:21:21 AM

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on September 07, 2021, 08:49:08 PM

There’s a cottage industry when it comes to COVID fear porn.

https://taibbi.substack.com/p/moral-majority-media-strikes-again-cd2

Wow, that article is pretty much a partisan worthless piece of crap.

Yes, the story based on an Oklahoma ER doctor's tweet was wrong. It should have been investigated further, but it was based off multiple official reports echoing the same sentiment (that were all correct). It is correct that there are a lot of poisonings from Ivermectin.

https://msdh.ms.gov/msdhsite/_static/resources/15400.pdf (https://msdh.ms.gov/msdhsite/_static/resources/15400.pdf)

Same thing in many other states. Fortunately it hasn't led to widespread hospitalizations yet.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 08, 2021, 09:43:52 AM

Some folks never know when they'll need to be de-wormed!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 08, 2021, 09:58:06 AM

Quote from: forgetful on September 08, 2021, 09:21:21 AM

Wow, that article is pretty much a partisan worthless piece of crap.

Yes, the story based on an Oklahoma ER doctor's tweet was wrong. It should have been investigated further, but it was based off multiple official reports echoing the same sentiment (that were all correct). It is correct that there are a lot of poisonings from Ivermectin.

https://msdh.ms.gov/msdhsite/_static/resources/15400.pdf (https://msdh.ms.gov/msdhsite/_static/resources/15400.pdf)

Same thing in many other states. Fortunately it hasn't led to widespread hospitalizations yet.

Fake news.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/associated-press-adds-embarrassing-correction-to-article-claiming-70-of-calls-to-mississippi-poison-control-were-about-ivermectin-ingestion?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=benshapiro

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on September 08, 2021, 10:03:17 AM

Cedric Ceballos in the ICU with COVID.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/former-nba-all-star-cedric-ceballos-photo-icu-covid-19-213200274.html

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on September 08, 2021, 10:13:21 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 08, 2021, 09:58:06 AM

Fake news.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/associated-press-adds-embarrassing-correction-to-article-claiming-70-of-calls-to-mississippi-poison-control-were-about-ivermectin-ingestion?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=benshapiro

My link is the official press release from the Mississippi poison control center and the lead doctor associated with it. They deemed it a significant problem to issue a press release.

They later clarified the exact meaning of the 70%, but verified that there were 1282 poisonings/exposures from August 1-23rd in Mississippi alone, hence the press report indicating to stop taking medicine meant for livestock.

Nothing I posted was incorrect. Quit trolling.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 08, 2021, 10:20:11 AM

Quote from: forgetful on September 08, 2021, 10:13:21 AM

My link is the official press release from the Mississippi poison control center and the lead doctor associated with it. They deemed it a significant problem to issue a press release.

They later clarified the exact meaning of the 70%, but verified that there were 1282 poisonings/exposures from August 1-23rd in Mississippi alone, hence the press report indicating to stop taking medicine meant for livestock.

Nothing I posted was incorrect. Quit trolling.

70% of 2% your link was wrong.  Quit spreading misinformation

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on September 08, 2021, 10:24:07 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 08, 2021, 10:20:11 AM

70% of 2% your link was wrong.  Quit spreading misinformation

Sure, Jan

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on September 08, 2021, 10:40:27 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 08, 2021, 10:20:11 AM

70% of 2% your link was wrong.  Quit spreading misinformation

What's the acceptable number of people ingesting livestock de-wormer to own the libs?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 08, 2021, 10:48:21 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/CNBC/status/1435611089388150788

You still think I’m trolling?  When the dust settles Fauci will not be looking the hero we made him out to be. 

On a separate note, my man crush on Gotty only grows.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 08, 2021, 10:49:29 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on September 08, 2021, 10:40:27 AM

What's the acceptable number of people ingesting livestock de-wormer to own the libs?

I ask you.  What’s the acceptable level of lies and misinformation you’re good with to own the cons?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on September 08, 2021, 10:58:34 AM

The problem here is we've got far too many Marats and not nearly enough bathtubs and knives.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on September 08, 2021, 11:08:35 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 08, 2021, 10:49:29 AM

I ask you.  What’s the acceptable level of lies and misinformation you’re good with to own the cons?

Answer the question, troll.
My answer is none.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on September 08, 2021, 11:24:26 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 08, 2021, 10:48:21 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/CNBC/status/1435611089388150788

You still think I’m trolling?  When the dust settles Fauci will not be looking the hero we made him out to be. 

On a separate note, my man crush on Gotty only grows.

You've been connecting criticism of the gain of function explanation with criticism of Fauci for some time now.  Is the criticism that gain of function is an inappropriate explanation for what was going on "inside" the Wuhan lab, or that the Wuhan lab was insufficiently secure for the type of gain of function research it was performing?

Also how does Fauci factor into either criticism?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on September 08, 2021, 11:26:22 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 08, 2021, 10:48:21 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/CNBC/status/1435611089388150788

You still think I’m trolling?  When the dust settles Fauci will not be looking the hero we made him out to be. 

On a separate note, my man crush on Gotty only grows.

Yes, still trolling.

None of what Gottleib said is wrong, and none of it actually supports your narrative regarding Fauci. It also does nothing in relation to identifying COVID origins, or changing the calculus on where this originated.

And your narrative regarding Fauci will always be trolling, because you have zero understanding of how funding decisions are made at the NIH, and Fauci's role in those funding decisions.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 08, 2021, 11:40:47 AM

Quote from: MUBurrow on September 08, 2021, 11:24:26 AM

You've been connecting criticism of the gain of function explanation with criticism of Fauci for some time now.  Is the criticism that gain of function is an inappropriate explanation for what was going on "inside" the Wuhan lab, or that the Wuhan lab was insufficiently secure for the type of gain of function research it was performing?

Also how does Fauci factor into either criticism?

Because Fauci, along with Collins were the ones responsible for funding the very gain of function research that led to millions of deaths and they’ve been lying about that for over a year. 

I imagine he knew full well that there were problems with the WIV that made for an environment of a possible lab escape so to turn a blind eye to those safety gaps and continue to partner with them i feel is something he needs to be held accountable for.  And all I mean by accountable is for him to be honest and step down from his position with the NIH.  I’m sure there are perfectly good and ethical reasons for gain of function research but when that research leads to millions of deaths via a lab leak I don’t think you should be able to keep your job. 

He knew from the get go that the wet market theory was hog wash but chose instead to mislead the world to try and cover his own ass.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 08, 2021, 11:42:37 AM

Quote from: forgetful on September 08, 2021, 11:26:22 AM

Yes, still trolling.

None of what Gottleib said is wrong, and none of it actually supports your narrative regarding Fauci. It also does nothing in relation to identifying COVID origins, or changing the calculus on where this originated.

And your narrative regarding Fauci will always be trolling, because you have zero understanding of how funding decisions are made at the NIH, and Fauci's role in those funding decisions.

So who should be held responsible at the NIH for the funding if not Fauci?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MUBurrow on September 08, 2021, 12:04:41 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 08, 2021, 11:40:47 AM

Because Fauci, along with Collins were the ones responsible for funding the very gain of function research that led to millions of deaths and they’ve been lying about that for over a year. 

I imagine he knew full well that there were problems with the WIV that made for an environment of a possible lab escape so to turn a blind eye to those safety gaps and continue to partner with them i feel is something he needs to be held accountable for.  And all I mean by accountable is for him to be honest and step down from his position with the NIH.  I’m sure there are perfectly good and ethical reasons for gain of function research but when that research leads to millions of deaths via a lab leak I don’t think you should be able to keep your job. 

He knew from the get go that the wet market theory was hog wash but chose instead to mislead the world to try and cover his own ass.

Thanks for the follow up.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on September 08, 2021, 12:05:23 PM

Taught FD Joe wuz gonna control da virus, aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on September 08, 2021, 12:08:19 PM

Eef the dumm sheets wownt tayk it....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on September 08, 2021, 12:49:54 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 08, 2021, 11:42:37 AM

So who should be held responsible at the NIH for the funding if not Fauci?

Here is more proof you are trolling.

1. You have decided, despite no evidence or knowledge at all on the subject that COVID was released from the Wuhan facility. All data still indicates the most likely source is natural.

2. You have decided, despite no knowledge on the legal or scientific definitions of "gain-of-function" research as it pertains to the government ban on such research, that what was done was in violation of that ban. Even Gottlieb acknowledged that there are specific legal and scientific definitions at play here.

3. You have decided, despite no knowledge of how funding and review of grants are conducted, that Fauci and Collins are responsible, for something that is still unsupported by actual data.

------------------------

Despite these three aspects, you declare with certainty, that COVID was released from the lab, who was conducting gain of function research, at the direction of Fauci/Collins. Pure trolling.

Now, we can address the three above if you like. And I will for information sake, but we all know you will continue to push your narrative...because a trolls gotta troll.

On 1, let me repeat, the current data still indicates the most likely origin was natural.

On 2, as Gottlieb notes, there are specific definitions to what was forbidden. By all accounts it appears as if what was being done, did not constitute gain-of-function research based on those definitions.

On 2, and 3. The ban didn't technically ban all gain-of-function research. It was allowed based on the discretion of heads of funding agencies, in this case Fauci or Collins. The decision on whether something was gain-of-function is not made by them, but through a lengthy review process.

Grants are first examined based on simply following form. If they deviate from the required form at all, they are triaged. All that follow form are peer-reviewed and scored by panels. I serve on some of these panels.

Those panels review them for merit, but also special considerations, like use of human subjects, animal subjects, and rigor and reproducibility of the methods (as well as whether the requested $ amount is justified). If it doesn't follow the moral/ethical/legal requirements it is triaged by these panels at this point.

Once they are all scored, a program officer prioritizes them based on a combination of score, demographics, and program objectives/priorities. Again, any issues related to moral/ethical/legal requirements will be reviewed at this stage before any grants are recommended for funding. The program officer recommends certain grants based on these priorities, and writes up justifications/arguments for their funding (or against for high scoring grants that are not recommended).

At this point, those grants are presented to the advisory council. Here is the current roster for the NIAID advisory council:

https://www.niaid.nih.gov/about/advisory-council-biographies (https://www.niaid.nih.gov/about/advisory-council-biographies)

This is the first time anything is presented at all to Fauci. At each of these councils many grants are discussed. In total for the Jan. 2021 council, 5678 applications were discussed with final approval of 2579 grants. No one is reading all of them. They are relying on the reports, investigations, and findings of the review committees and program officers.

Even after the 2579 grants are approved/recommended for funding. They undergo further rigorous review over every detail to make sure there are no errors, and everything conforms to legal/moral/ethical guidelines. Again this is done by committees and underlings.

The final sign of by someone like Fauci/Collins is a matter of form, no additional review is done at this stage...unless it was determined in the process that it is considered "gain-of-function" research. At that junction, they do have to formally sign off on it being exempt for the ban and justified. Importantly, again there would be a paper trail at this last stage, as well as at the stages prior where it was a identified.

The reason none of this paper trail has been put forth is because it doesn't exist. Even if after the fact people view this as actually being "gain-of-function" the fault doesn't lie in Fauci or Collins, but the numerous bureaucratic layers beneath it that missed flagging it as gain of function. Even at that point, there is still no evidence indicating this resulted in the COVID outbreak.

Despite all this, I still support investigating the origins whether natural (most likely) or not. Not for any blame/fault purposes, so that we can learn and identify ways to avoid this in the future. Because that is what we do in science.

tldr: Pace is still trolling.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 08, 2021, 01:21:25 PM

Quote from: forgetful on September 08, 2021, 12:49:54 PM

Here is more proof you are trolling.

1. You have decided, despite no evidence or knowledge at all on the subject that COVID was released from the Wuhan facility. All data still indicates the most likely source is natural.

2. You have decided, despite no knowledge on the legal or scientific definitions of "gain-of-function" research as it pertains to the government ban on such research, that what was done was in violation of that ban. Even Gottlieb acknowledged that there are specific legal and scientific definitions at play here.

3. You have decided, despite no knowledge of how funding and review of grants are conducted, that Fauci and Collins are responsible, for something that is still unsupported by actual data.

------------------------

Despite these three aspects, you declare with certainty, that COVID was released from the lab, who was conducting gain of function research, at the direction of Fauci/Collins. Pure trolling.

Now, we can address the three above if you like. And I will for information sake, but we all know you will continue to push your narrative...because a trolls gotta troll.

On 1, let me repeat, the current data still indicates the most likely origin was natural.

On 2, as Gottlieb notes, there are specific definitions to what was forbidden. By all accounts it appears as if what was being done, did not constitute gain-of-function research based on those definitions.

On 2, and 3. The ban didn't technically ban all gain-of-function research. It was allowed based on the discretion of heads of funding agencies, in this case Fauci or Collins. The decision on whether something was gain-of-function is not made by them, but through a lengthy review process.

Grants are first examined based on simply following form. If they deviate from the required form at all, they are triaged. All that follow form are peer-reviewed and scored by panels. I serve on some of these panels.

Those panels review them for merit, but also special considerations, like use of human subjects, animal subjects, and rigor and reproducibility of the methods (as well as whether the requested $ amount is justified). If it doesn't follow the moral/ethical/legal requirements it is triaged by these panels at this point.

Once they are all scored, a program officer prioritizes them based on a combination of score, demographics, and program objectives/priorities. Again, any issues related to moral/ethical/legal requirements will be reviewed at this stage before any grants are recommended for funding. The program officer recommends certain grants based on these priorities, and writes up justifications/arguments for their funding (or against for high scoring grants that are not recommended).

At this point, those grants are presented to the advisory council. Here is the current roster for the NIAID advisory council:

https://www.niaid.nih.gov/about/advisory-council-biographies (https://www.niaid.nih.gov/about/advisory-council-biographies)

This is the first time anything is presented at all to Fauci. At each of these councils many grants are discussed. In total for the Jan. 2021 council, 5678 applications were discussed with final approval of 2579 grants. No one is reading all of them. They are relying on the reports, investigations, and findings of the review committees and program officers.

Even after the 2579 grants are approved/recommended for funding. They undergo further rigorous review over every detail to make sure there are no errors, and everything conforms to legal/moral/ethical guidelines. Again this is done by committees and underlings.

The final sign of by someone like Fauci/Collins is a matter of form, no additional review is done at this stage...unless it was determined in the process that it is considered "gain-of-function" research. At that junction, they do have to formally sign off on it being exempt for the ban and justified. Importantly, again there would be a paper trail at this last stage, as well as at the stages prior where it was a identified.

The reason none of this paper trail has been put forth is because it doesn't exist. Even if after the fact people view this as actually being "gain-of-function" the fault doesn't lie in Fauci or Collins, but the numerous bureaucratic layers beneath it that missed flagging it as gain of function. Even at that point, there is still no evidence indicating this resulted in the COVID outbreak.

Despite all this, I still support investigating the origins whether natural (most likely) or not. Not for any blame/fault purposes, so that we can learn and identify ways to avoid this in the future. Because that is what we do in science.

tldr: Pace is still trolling.

Thanks for that detailed response, sincerely.

So in your opinion if this does end up being considered gain of function there should be no accountability for Fauci/Collins because of the bureaucratic layers below them?  Nothing at all, just chalk it up to a learning experience?

If in your opinion it’s not considered gain of function what would you call it?  Seems what they were funding and what the WIV was doing fits the textbook definition for gain of function.

Still not trolling!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on September 08, 2021, 01:51:32 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 08, 2021, 01:21:25 PM

Thanks for that detailed response, sincerely.

So in your opinion if this does end up being considered gain of function there should be no accountability for Fauci/Collins because of the bureaucratic layers below them?  Nothing at all, just chalk it up to a learning experience?

If in your opinion it’s not considered gain of function what would you call it?  Seems what they were funding and what the WIV was doing fits the textbook definition for gain of function.

Still not trolling!!

Lol

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 08, 2021, 05:34:16 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on September 08, 2021, 12:05:23 PM

Taught FD Joe wuz gonna control da virus, aina?

So, you are calling for mandatory vaccine for every American? What should Joe do when the people on your side start using their guns to keep from being vaccinated.

Instead of some inane scoop-bonics comment, how about a solution?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on September 08, 2021, 05:51:02 PM

Quote from: Jockey on September 08, 2021, 05:34:16 PM

So, you are calling for mandatory vaccine for every American? What should Joe do when the people on your side start using their guns to keep from being vaccinated.

Instead of some inane scoop-bonics comment, how about a solution?

They have something far more powerful to keep people from getting vaccinated: Fox, OAN, Newsmax, 1500 AM radio stations, etc. etc.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 08, 2021, 06:22:20 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on September 03, 2021, 12:27:23 PM

so if one had covid, they should pay higher insurance rates and be sent to dental offices? 

judging from your reactions and responses, i'm not so sure you will ever have a "normal life"  take care of yourself, get vaccinated if you want(which i'm sure you already have) and wear a mask.  wear a shield and 2 masks...whatever.  if that doesn't protect you, sorry, there is not much more. 

should one be denied medical care, tests etc due to their political or religious beliefs?  how about sexual orientation?

No, if one is unvaccinated for no reason other than bullcrap excuse than, "I don't wanna" and calls it 'political' then yes, they should absolutely pay for the increased burden they are putting on the system.

I certainly never suggested denying anyone medical care. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 08, 2021, 06:27:50 PM

Four NC medical professionals, including two infectious disease experts, are asked if folks should feel safe going to well-attended sporting events. All four say no.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/coronavirus/article253976318.html?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on September 08, 2021, 07:32:48 PM

Quote from: MU82 on September 08, 2021, 06:27:50 PM

Four NC medical professionals, including two infectious disease experts, are asked if folks should feel safe going to well-attended sporting events. All four say no.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/coronavirus/article253976318.html?

That summation is a bit dramatic but I did think there was some good nuance in there.  One specifically spoke of risk tolerance and assessing individual factors which I think is important.  One seemed to be speaking generally, mentioning unvaxxed and elderly in the same breath as vaccinated when giving advice.

But it’s nothing you wouldn’t expect.  That’s a group of people who naturally are imbued with extra caution given both what they’ve seen and their medical specialities.

 It always makes me think of my old dermatologist.  He said you should have a minimum of SPF 50 whenever the UV was above a 3 or 4.  He always wore broad hat whenever he left the house in the spring/summer/fall.  His wife was also a practicing Derm and wore long sleeves and gloves during sunny warmer times.  They were great doctors and great people, but was always helpful to remember they were very black and white and life is often shades of grey

As has come up a lot the last few days, listen to experts and make your own assessments of risk…after you’ve been vaccinated cause FFS

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 08, 2021, 07:57:48 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on September 08, 2021, 07:32:48 PM

That summation is a bit dramatic but I did think there was some good nuance in there.  One specifically spoke of risk tolerance and assessing individual factors which I think is important.  One seemed to be speaking generally, mentioning unvaxxed and elderly in the same breath as vaccinated when giving advice.

But it’s nothing you wouldn’t expect.  That’s a group of people who naturally are imbued with extra caution given both what they’ve seen and their medical specialities.

 It always makes me think of my old dermatologist.  He said you should have a minimum of SPF 50 whenever the UV was above a 3 or 4.  He always wore broad hat whenever he left the house in the spring/summer/fall.  His wife was also a practicing Derm and wore long sleeves and gloves during sunny warmer times.  They were great doctors and great people, but was always helpful to remember they were very black and white and life is often shades of grey

As has come up a lot the last few days, listen to experts and make your own assessments of risk…after you’ve been vaccinated cause FFS

Lots of common sense there, Wags.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on September 08, 2021, 08:05:37 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on September 08, 2021, 07:32:48 PM

That summation is a bit dramatic but I did think there was some good nuance in there.  One specifically spoke of risk tolerance and assessing individual factors which I think is important.  One seemed to be speaking generally, mentioning unvaxxed and elderly in the same breath as vaccinated when giving advice.

But it’s nothing you wouldn’t expect.  That’s a group of people who naturally are imbued with extra caution given both what they’ve seen and their medical specialities.

 It always makes me think of my old dermatologist.  He said you should have a minimum of SPF 50 whenever the UV was above a 3 or 4.  He always wore broad hat whenever he left the house in the spring/summer/fall.  His wife was also a practicing Derm and wore long sleeves and gloves during sunny warmer times.  They were great doctors and great people, but was always helpful to remember they were very black and white and life is often shades of grey

As has come up a lot the last few days, listen to experts and make your own assessments of risk…after you’ve been vaccinated cause FFS

The last part is key. Too many unvax

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on September 08, 2021, 09:12:44 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on September 08, 2021, 06:22:20 PM

No, if one is unvaccinated for no reason other than bullcrap excuse than, "I don't wanna" and calls it 'political' then yes, they should absolutely pay for the increased burden they are putting on the system.

I certainly never suggested denying anyone medical care.

  what if someone got an std and didn't practice "safe sex" should they be ignored or pay higher premiums or go to back of the line?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on September 08, 2021, 09:15:25 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on September 08, 2021, 09:12:44 PM

  what if someone got an std and didn't practice "safe sex" should they be ignored or pay higher premiums or go to back of the line?

If a person knowingly has an STD, and doesn't practice "safe sex" and doesn't let partners know, they are committing a crime. It is considered assault.

Are you suggesting that people the don't get vaccinated, and get someone else sick, should be charged with assault instead of higher premiums?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on September 08, 2021, 09:23:44 PM

Quote from: forgetful on September 08, 2021, 09:15:25 PM

If a person knowingly has an STD, and doesn't practice "safe sex" and doesn't let partners know, they are committing a crime. It is considered assault.

Are you suggesting that people the don't get vaccinated, and get someone else sick, should be charged with assault instead of higher premiums?

just fill in the blanks

No, if one__________ for no reason other than bullcrap excuse than, "I don't wanna" and calls it 'political' then yes, they should absolutely pay for the increased burden they are putting on the system.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on September 09, 2021, 09:11:24 AM

So, these are the people that are on the side of not wearing masks. I am happy not to be on her side of the debate.


SAP Employee Fired After Intentionally Coughing on Shoppers at Nebraska Grocery Store
https://www.ibtimes.sg/janene-hoskovec-sap-employee-fired-after-intentionally-coughing-shoppers-nebraska-grocery-store-60123

She said she was at the store with her 13-year-old daughter when the maskless "Karen," identified as Janene Hoskovec, approached them and confronted them for wearing masks.
She said Hoskovec then proceeded to follow the mother and daughter around the store and when she asked her to maintain social distance, Hoskovec started coughing on them intentionally.

Video of her here: https://twitter.com/davenewworld_2/status/1435200650804146177

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on September 09, 2021, 03:45:30 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on September 09, 2021, 09:11:24 AM

So, these are the people that are on the side of not wearing masks. I am happy not to be on her side of the debate.


SAP Employee Fired After Intentionally Coughing on Shoppers at Nebraska Grocery Store
https://www.ibtimes.sg/janene-hoskovec-sap-employee-fired-after-intentionally-coughing-shoppers-nebraska-grocery-store-60123

She said she was at the store with her 13-year-old daughter when the maskless "Karen," identified as Janene Hoskovec, approached them and confronted them for wearing masks.
She said Hoskovec then proceeded to follow the mother and daughter around the store and when she asked her to maintain social distance, Hoskovec started coughing on them intentionally.

Video of her here: https://twitter.com/davenewworld_2/status/1435200650804146177

  this "karen" person is an idiot and no, she is not emblematic of the people not wearing masks-that is just an asinine statement.  if i look hard enough, i could probably find a similar incident with the mask wearing people doing the same to the unmasked except the "media" won't highlight those as they do the stupid incidents such as yours

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on September 09, 2021, 03:52:57 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on September 09, 2021, 03:45:30 PM

  this "karen" person is an idiot and no, she is not emblematic of the people not wearing masks-that is just an asinine statement.  if i look hard enough, i could probably find a similar incident with the mask wearing people doing the same to the unmasked except the "media" won't highlight those as they do the stupid incidents such as yours

lol.

whataboutism taken to a phantom level.

There's a whatabout that makes the other side just as bad somewhere out there I'm sure of it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on September 09, 2021, 03:56:34 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on September 09, 2021, 03:45:30 PM

  this "karen" person is an idiot and no, she is not emblematic of the people not wearing masks-that is just an asinine statement.  if i look hard enough, i could probably find a similar incident with the mask wearing people doing the same to the unmasked except the "media" won't highlight those as they do the stupid incidents such as yours

9 of 10 for Classic whataboutism and great use of air quotes. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on September 09, 2021, 04:31:07 PM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on September 09, 2021, 03:56:34 PM

9 of 10 for Classic whataboutism and great use of air quotes.

I give it an extra 0.25 for blaming "the media."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on September 09, 2021, 04:38:37 PM

Nursing home deaths severely under counted due to reporting lag:

https://wkow.com/2021/09/09/nursing-home-deaths-in-2020-much-higher/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=undefined_WKOW (https://wkow.com/2021/09/09/nursing-home-deaths-in-2020-much-higher/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=undefined_WKOW)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on September 09, 2021, 04:58:03 PM

It has been postulated that there as been an immense undercount all along.   I have little doubt that there was an undercount in nursing homes.


Just had a discussion with a co -worker who resents the fact that his 95 year old grandfather was classified as a COVID death

'He was asymptomatic.  And 95.  Nobody knew he had COVID until after he died.  It was old age and, like 1% COVID.'

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on September 09, 2021, 05:54:10 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on September 09, 2021, 04:31:07 PM

I give it an extra 0.25 for blaming "the media."

I mean, if only there was a single instance of "the media" that broadcast hours upon hours upon hours of rightwing information each and every day. Alas, it will probably never happen...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on September 09, 2021, 06:11:36 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on September 09, 2021, 04:38:37 PM

Nursing home deaths severely under counted due to reporting lag:

https://wkow.com/2021/09/09/nursing-home-deaths-in-2020-much-higher/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=undefined_WKOW (https://wkow.com/2021/09/09/nursing-home-deaths-in-2020-much-higher/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=undefined_WKOW)

Good thing we let all these corporations have liability shields, eh?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on September 09, 2021, 07:15:03 PM

Quote from: jficke13 on September 09, 2021, 03:52:57 PM

lol.

whataboutism taken to a phantom level.

There's a whatabout that makes the other side just as bad somewhere out there I'm sure of it.

nope, just calling the "broad brush" out

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on September 09, 2021, 07:19:03 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on September 09, 2021, 07:15:03 PM

nope, just calling the "broad brush" out

Lol.

Serious “man” wants us to know he’s serious.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on September 13, 2021, 10:05:19 PM

This is an interesting study on trends in hospitalized COVID patients

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/09/covid-hospitalization-numbers-can-be-misleading/620062/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on September 13, 2021, 11:11:58 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on September 13, 2021, 10:05:19 PM

This is an interesting study on trends in hospitalized COVID patients

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/09/covid-hospitalization-numbers-can-be-misleading/620062/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share

Interesting read. Good info, it seems. It frustrates me that there isn’t more detailed information collected and disseminated in general. I understand limitations in places like Florida, where they don’t want to know, but still, other places should be able to collect info like this article cites.

From the article: “It’s underreported how well the vaccine makes your life better, how much less sick you are likely to be, and less sick even if hospitalized,” Snyder said. “That’s the gem in this study.”

Get jabbed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 14, 2021, 08:16:10 AM

Southern states running out of ICU beds.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/09/14/us/covid-hospital-icu-south.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20210914&instance_id=40338&nl=the-morning&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=68857&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

Red dots represent 95% of I.C.U. beds are occupied in each hospital; orange dots represent 90-95%

(https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/2021/09/13/covid-hospitaliztions/4dca1d64a9f973b4d96160f26c87d576a1af5740/national_map-Artboard_1.png)

Biggest concentration in states where the governors and/or state legislatures have enacted executive orders and/or legislation that make it impossible, illegal or difficult to require masks and vaccines. Blood on their hands.

Lots of dead already -- including innocent victims who don't have COVID-19 but die waiting for care because anti-vaxxers are taking up beds-- and more to come.

Let freedom ring!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on September 14, 2021, 08:44:28 AM

Sew ur movin' ta Wyomin' orr Montana, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on September 14, 2021, 09:22:15 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on September 14, 2021, 08:44:28 AM

Sew ur movin' ta Wyomin' orr Montana, hey?

Nads and chicos homesteading in Idaho, aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 14, 2021, 11:46:38 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on September 14, 2021, 08:44:28 AM

Sew ur movin' ta Wyomin' orr Montana, hey?

NC isn't as bad as Fla and Texas. And I'm neither poor nor a person of color, so I'll probably be OK.

Thanks for asking, though. Hope you and yours are well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 15, 2021, 07:42:51 AM

Both the GOP and Newsom made the California recall vote largely about the pandemic.

Republicans, whose top candidate called himself a Trump clone, said it was a way out of the "tyranny" of mask and vaccine mandates; Newsom and the Dems said it was about getting life back to normal by following the science. The Texas abortion law and state voter-suppression laws also became major themes in the campaign.

The recall vote failed overwhelmingly, handing Newsom a resounding victory.

“It appears that we are enjoying an overwhelmingly ‘no’ vote tonight here in the state of California, but ‘no’ is not the only thing that was expressed tonight," Newsom said.

“We said yes to science. We said yes to vaccines. We said yes to ending this pandemic. We said yes to people’s right to vote without fear of fake fraud and voter suppression. We said yes to women’s fundamental constitutional right to decide for herself what she does with her body, her fate, her future. We said yes to diversity.”

Exit polls showed a huge majority of voters believed Newsom was handling the pandemic well.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on September 15, 2021, 11:05:56 AM

Quote from: MU82 on September 15, 2021, 07:42:51 AM

Both the GOP and Newsom made the California recall vote largely about the pandemic.

Republicans, whose top candidate called himself a Trump clone, said it was a way out of the "tyranny" of mask and vaccine mandates; Newsom and the Dems said it was about getting life back to normal by following the science. The Texas abortion law and state voter-suppression laws also became major themes in the campaign.

The recall vote failed overwhelmingly, handing Newsom a resounding victory.

“It appears that we are enjoying an overwhelmingly ‘no’ vote tonight here in the state of California, but ‘no’ is not the only thing that was expressed tonight," Newsom said.

“We said yes to science. We said yes to vaccines. We said yes to ending this pandemic. We said yes to people’s right to vote without fear of fake fraud and voter suppression. We said yes to women’s fundamental constitutional right to decide for herself what she does with her body, her fate, her future. We said yes to diversity.”

Exit polls showed a huge majority of voters believed Newsom was handling the pandemic well.

"Party affiliation may be dangerous to your health"
https://twitter.com/KennethNorville/status/1438040351231471616

MAGA Covidiots

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 15, 2021, 11:16:33 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on September 15, 2021, 11:05:56 AM

"Party affiliation may be dangerous to your health"
https://twitter.com/KennethNorville/status/1438040351231471616

MAGA Covidiots

We demand the right to die or get seriously ill, to not protect our loved ones (including our kids) from death or serious illness, and to kill or infect our friends! FREEDOM!!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on September 15, 2021, 11:29:32 AM

Quote from: MU82 on September 15, 2021, 11:16:33 AM

We demand the right to die or get seriously ill, to not protect our loved ones (including our kids) from death or serious illness, and to kill or infect our friends! FREEDOM!!!

Freedumb isn't free. Costs lives.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 15, 2021, 01:02:41 PM

Grim milestone reached: 1 in 500 Americans have died of COVID-19.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/interactive/2021/1-in-500-covid-deaths/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F34ae483%2F61421ba09d2fdaecb9da42f0%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F8%2F70%2F61421ba09d2fdaecb9da42f0

The biggest toll, especially early in the pandemic, was older people. Nevertheless, 1-in-780 Americans between the ages of 40 and 64 have died of COVID-19. The toll has been particularly high on Native Americans and people of color.

A true tragedy, made worse by the fact that so many of the deaths were preventable, and continue to be preventable.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 16, 2021, 08:58:48 AM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on September 08, 2021, 09:12:44 PM

  what if someone got an std and didn't practice "safe sex" should they be ignored or pay higher premiums or go to back of the line?

STDs are shared between sexual partners.

Covid is shared between everyone that breathes.

Don't be daffy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on September 16, 2021, 10:46:39 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on September 16, 2021, 08:58:48 AM

STDs are shared between sexual partners.

Covid is shared between everyone that breathes.

Don't be daffy.

The irony is that spreading HIV without informing your partners is a crime.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on September 16, 2021, 10:55:31 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on September 16, 2021, 10:46:39 AM

The irony is that spreading HIV without informing your partners is a crime.

And herpes

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 18, 2021, 07:43:18 AM

This woman lived for 35 years after a heart transplant ... but COVID-19 killed her:

Eva Baisey, a nurse from Washington, D.C., who became one of the longest-living heart transplant patients in history, died Sept. 11 at 55 – 34 years and 257 days after her surgery.

She died at a hospital in Lanham, Md., of complications from covid-19, said her son, Antonio Baisey.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on September 18, 2021, 09:12:55 AM

Blue Lives Matter!   COVID is the biggest killer of police officers this year!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on September 18, 2021, 09:21:19 AM

Quote from: tower912 on September 18, 2021, 09:12:55 AM

Blue Lives Matter!   COVID is the biggest killer of pilice officers this year!

Unions are fighting vaccine mandates, too.  Tough choice for the Tuckers of the world.  Do they defend unions in this case and propagate death among viewers? 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 18, 2021, 09:24:28 AM

So, cops are literally killing cops now. Who woulda thunk it?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on September 18, 2021, 02:08:19 PM

Quote from: tower912 on September 18, 2021, 09:12:55 AM

Blue Lives Matter!   COVID is the biggest killer of pilice officers this year!

https://nypost.com/2021/05/28/anti-vaxxer-colorado-sheriffs-deputy-33-dies-of-covid-complications/



Anti-vaxxer Colorado sheriff’s deputy, 33, dies of COVID complications


The married father of two said: “Being a marine has taught me one thing: never be the first to volunteer. Y’all rushing out there standing in line to get the vaccine like folks rush out to get the new iPhone, and if history has told us any new product that ever comes on the market is always full of problems. And you know how they fix those problems?”



The deputy also reportedly disparaged mask wearing on his social media accounts, which appeared to have been scrubbed as of Friday evening.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 18, 2021, 03:20:05 PM

Well, at least he wasn’t first in line to get that evil vaccine.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on September 18, 2021, 03:33:28 PM

He showed us.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on September 18, 2021, 10:28:35 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on September 18, 2021, 02:08:19 PM

The married father of two said: “Being a marine has taught me one thing: never be the first to volunteer. Y’all rushing out there standing in line to get the vaccine like folks rush out to get the new iPhone, and if history has told us any new product that ever comes on the market is always full of problems. And you know how they fix those problems?”

I don't need to jump in the layup line dunking on these people everyday, but this quote makes no sense and honestly seems to be the antithesis of what the Marines/good military is about.  But the dude was clearly not super bright, so who knows.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on September 19, 2021, 07:38:04 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on September 18, 2021, 10:28:35 PM

I don't need to jump in the layup line dunking on these people everyday, but this quote makes no sense and honestly seems to be the antithesis of what the Marines/good military is about.  But the dude was clearly not super bright, so who knows.

Right. Did he think he got drafted into the Marines in the first place?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 19, 2021, 09:22:27 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on September 18, 2021, 10:28:35 PM

I don't need to jump in the layup line dunking on these people everyday, but this quote makes no sense and honestly seems to be the antithesis of what the Marines/good military is about.  But the dude was clearly not super bright, so who knows.

Not only that, but he would have hardly been the first to volunteer anyway.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 20, 2021, 07:32:35 AM

Quite a summary by the NYT's David Leonhardt:

The situation here is worse than in almost any other country. The U.S. death rate over the past two weeks, adjusted for population, is more than twice as high as Britain’s, more than seven times as high as Canada’s and more than 10 times as high as Germany’s. If Mississippi were its own country, it would have one of the world’s worst total death tolls per capita.

Why? One reason is that the U.S. — after getting off to an excellent start — now trails many of these countries in Covid vaccination rate. Almost one in four American adults still has not received a shot. The unvaccinated continue to be disproportionately people without a college degree and Republican voters.

The vaccines radically reduce the chances of serious Covid illness, and deaths are occurring overwhelmingly among the unvaccinated. Yet many people have chosen to leave themselves unprotected. It’s a modern tragedy, caused by the widespread distrust that Americans feel toward society’s major institutions and exacerbated by online disinformation.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on September 20, 2021, 08:50:09 AM

Quote from: MU82 on September 20, 2021, 07:32:35 AM

Why? One reason is that the U.S. — after getting off to an excellent start — now trails many of these countries in Covid vaccination rate. Almost one in four American adults still has not received a shot. The unvaccinated continue to be disproportionately people without a college degree and Republican voters.

According to a recent Breitbart column, this is Democrats fault. How you ask? Because by encouraging people to get vaccinated, we've cornered Republicans into choosing between owning the libs and getting a life saving shot.

Amusing, but the take away from me is the admittance that Republicans' entire ethos is no deeper than reflexively opposing whatever Democrats support, even life saving medical treatment. It also succinctly explains why the MAGAs have latched on to HCQ, ivermectin, and now Betadine rather than just getting the unnatural carnal knowledgeing vaccine.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on September 20, 2021, 09:37:00 AM

Quote from: pbiflyer on September 18, 2021, 02:08:19 PM

https://nypost.com/2021/05/28/anti-vaxxer-colorado-sheriffs-deputy-33-dies-of-covid-complications/



Anti-vaxxer Colorado sheriff’s deputy, 33, dies of COVID complications


The married father of two said: “Being a marine has taught me one thing: never be the first to volunteer. Y’all rushing out there standing in line to get the vaccine like folks rush out to get the new iPhone, and if history has told us any new product that ever comes on the market is always full of problems. And you know how they fix those problems?”



The deputy also reportedly disparaged mask wearing on his social media accounts, which appeared to have been scrubbed as of Friday evening.

The thin blue line people want to create the illusion of a police force under siege and beset on all sides by an unprecedented wave of violence... but that's not even remotely true. What is true is that Covid is taking out cops left and right. If only there were something police forces could do to defend themselves.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 20, 2021, 12:18:52 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on September 20, 2021, 08:50:09 AM

According to a recent Breitbart column, this is Democrats fault. How you ask? Because by encouraging people to get vaccinated, we've cornered Republicans into choosing between owning the libs and getting a life saving shot.

Amusing, but the take away from me is the admittance that Republicans' entire ethos is no deeper than reflexively opposing whatever Democrats support, even life saving medical treatment. It also succinctly explains why the MAGAs have latched on to HCQ, ivermectin, and now Betadine rather than just getting the unnatural carnal knowledgeing vaccine.

It started when McConnell stated the only republican goal was to sabotage Obama. They have been on that path ever since.

If the choose death, so be it. I will not shed any tears. My heart breaks for the children who are left without a parent, but, never forget - that parent chose death.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on September 20, 2021, 12:41:53 PM

https://news.yahoo.com/texas-restaurant-owner-threw-family-144447868.html

This is what people like Abbott have wrought.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 20, 2021, 02:02:57 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on September 20, 2021, 12:41:53 PM

https://news.yahoo.com/texas-restaurant-owner-threw-family-144447868.html

This is what people like Abbott have wrought.

A bunch of mini killer wannabes?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on September 20, 2021, 03:40:45 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on September 20, 2021, 12:41:53 PM

https://news.yahoo.com/texas-restaurant-owner-threw-family-144447868.html

This is what people like Abbott have wrought.

But I thought it was about freedom to choose ...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Billy Hoyle on September 20, 2021, 06:39:17 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on September 20, 2021, 12:41:53 PM

https://news.yahoo.com/texas-restaurant-owner-threw-family-144447868.html

This is what people like Abbott have wrought.

And in NYC BLM is protesting a restaurant for kicking out unvaccinated people…because to them one thing trumps refusing to vacate

https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2021/09/18/carmines-hostess-attacked-indoor-dining-vaccine-mandate/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on September 20, 2021, 06:54:36 PM

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on September 20, 2021, 06:39:17 PM

And in NYC BLM is protesting a restaurant for kicking out unvaccinated people…because to them one thing trumps refusing to vacate

https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2021/09/18/carmines-hostess-attacked-indoor-dining-vaccine-mandate/

Huh?

"As CBS2’s Kevin Rincon reports, vaccination checks are ongoing at the door of the restaurant after the three tourists from Texas assaulted a 24-year-old hostess."

That = BLM to you?  Perhaps you meant to say black people?

https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2021/09/20/carmines-brawl-texas-women-arrested-covid-19-vaccination-mandate-nyc-restaurants/

But even then, this story doesn't seem to prove the point you're claiming.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on September 20, 2021, 07:06:15 PM

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on September 20, 2021, 06:39:17 PM

And in NYC BLM is protesting a restaurant for kicking out unvaccinated people…because to them one thing trumps refusing to vacate

https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2021/09/18/carmines-hostess-attacked-indoor-dining-vaccine-mandate/

Fake news.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Billy Hoyle on September 20, 2021, 07:34:04 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on September 20, 2021, 06:54:36 PM

Huh?

"As CBS2’s Kevin Rincon reports, vaccination checks are ongoing at the door of the restaurant after the three tourists from Texas assaulted a 24-year-old hostess."

That = BLM to you?  Perhaps you meant to say black people?

https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2021/09/20/carmines-brawl-texas-women-arrested-covid-19-vaccination-mandate-nyc-restaurants/

But even then, this story doesn't seem to prove the point you're claiming.

I guess I have to do the work for you. And the hostess they’re claiming is “racist” is Asian. Apology accepted.

https://www.newsweek.com/blm-protest-planned-new-york-restaurant-where-brawl-over-vaccination-proof-occurred-1630625

Have to love this one!

"This vaccination card mandate to create more Sandra Blands, and more Breonna Taylors, it ends here," said Kimberly Bernard, an organizer of the Black Women's March in 2020. "Consider yourself served. Cancel Carmines's!"

https://patch.com/new-york/upper-west-side-nyc/cancel-carmines-rally-draws-crowd-upper-west-side

Multiple speakers mentioned that the vaccine mandate gives police a lopsided incentive to target Black people since the demographic is not as vaccinated as other groups.

"We will not sit by and allow you to use this pandemic, vaccine mandate, and masks, as reasons to throw us in prison," one of the speakers said.

The SJW’s eating their own….

I used to love business dinners here. Always got the leftovers too. Props to Carmines for upholding the laws.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 20, 2021, 07:53:44 PM

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on September 20, 2021, 07:34:04 PM

I guess I have to do the work for you. And the hostess they’re claiming is “racist” is Asian. Apology accepted.

https://www.newsweek.com/blm-protest-planned-new-york-restaurant-where-brawl-over-vaccination-proof-occurred-1630625

Have to love this one!

"This vaccination card mandate to create more Sandra Blands, and more Breonna Taylors, it ends here," said Kimberly Bernard, an organizer of the Black Women's March in 2020. "Consider yourself served. Cancel Carmines's!"

https://patch.com/new-york/upper-west-side-nyc/cancel-carmines-rally-draws-crowd-upper-west-side

Multiple speakers mentioned that the vaccine mandate gives police a lopsided incentive to target Black people since the demographic is not as vaccinated as other groups.

"We will not sit by and allow you to use this pandemic, vaccine mandate, and masks, as reasons to throw us in prison," one of the speakers said.

The SJW’s eating their own….

I used to love business dinners here. Always got the leftovers too. Props to Carmines for upholding the laws.

Yeah guys!  Stop reading the links he posts!  So so rude. 

And yeah Billy is finally caring about black people. We should be happy!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on September 20, 2021, 08:09:48 PM

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on September 20, 2021, 07:34:04 PM

I guess I have to do the work for you.

So, when you wrote that BLM was protesting the restaurant for "kicking out unvaccinated people" you were spreading fake news.
Glad we can agree on that.

Why is the hostess' race relevant?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on September 20, 2021, 08:13:44 PM

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on September 20, 2021, 07:34:04 PM

I guess I have to do the work for you. And the hostess they’re claiming is “racist” is Asian. Apology accepted.

Regardless of the details in this situation... can you not be Asian and also be a racist? Why couldn't an asian have an anti-black/white/whatever race bias?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on September 20, 2021, 11:57:59 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on September 20, 2021, 08:13:44 PM

Regardless of the details in this situation... can you not be Asian and also be a racist? Why couldn't an asian have an anti-black/white/whatever race bias?

FWIW, Ive heard/been told many times that racism needs to be grounded in power and a power structure, vis a vis, African Americans and other minorities can't be "racist" towards white people or other races cause its based on resentment and mistreatment or oppression.  I even had a cultural studies professor in college explain it to me in that way when I posed an example of a girl that had been removed from my dorm who was perhaps the most "racist" person I had ever met in her degradation of Asians and Middle Eastern people, even though she was African American.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on September 21, 2021, 08:03:19 AM

Oh, hey, let's give preferential treatment to the unnatural carnal knowledgeheads that won't get vaccinated.


https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1440134938196692999.html

"The Tennessee state government now recommends vaccinated residents be denied access to monoclonal antibody treatment to preserve supplies for those who are unwilling to get vaccinated and remain most vulnerable by their own choice. A new story from me: tennessean.com/story/news/hea…

In other words, if you took the responsible step of vaccination to slow the pandemic and protect yourself and others, it may now actually disqualify you from getting one of the most effective treatments for the virus. If you did nothing, you can still get the care.

This new recommendation is a result of the feds capping supplies of antibody drugs. They did it because a few poorly-vaccinated southern states, including Tennessee, were using most the nation's supply.

Who loses out as a result? The vaccinated. tennessean.com/story/news/hea…
To be clear, the state's recommendation is based on guidelines from the National Institutes of Health. A Vanderbilt expert told me this is the right choice to do the most good in a bad situation.

I think the salient question is this: Could we have avoided this bad situation?

One last thing I should add: As my story stays, the state's recommendation does not include vaccinated people who are immunocompromised or immunosuppressed. They would still qualify for monoclonal antibody therapy."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 21, 2021, 08:34:16 AM

The effen a-holes who willingly jeopardize the health of everybody around them and obviously don't really have any interest in helping to heal the country are bad enough.

But the political, corporate, religious and social leaders who enable, support and encourage the selfish mouth-breathers represent the very, very worst of America.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Billy Hoyle on September 21, 2021, 10:50:48 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on September 20, 2021, 11:57:59 PM

FWIW, Ive heard/been told many times that racism needs to be grounded in power and a power structure, vis a vis, African Americans and other minorities can't be "racist" towards white people or other races cause its based on resentment and mistreatment or oppression.  I even had a cultural studies professor in college explain it to me in that way when I posed an example of a girl that had been removed from my dorm who was perhaps the most "racist" person I had ever met in her degradation of Asians and Middle Eastern people, even though she was African American.

This. My wife was told that her pressing charges against her Black assailant was not racism but the result of being brainwashed by white supremacy. Though since BLM groups are quite anti-Asian perhaps that narrative is shifting.

https://www.aclrc.com/myth-of-reverse-racism
https://mndaily.com/233763/opinion/op-reverseracism2/

”Any group of people can experience racial prejudice or discrimination. However, racism refers to that prejudice in addition to the socialized power structures at play. So, not everyone can experience the racism that Black people do because the power dynamic that has existed since the Atlantic Slave Trade is just not equivalent to any other racial experience in the States.”

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Billy Hoyle on September 21, 2021, 10:54:42 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on September 20, 2021, 08:09:48 PM

So, when you wrote that BLM was protesting the restaurant for "kicking out unvaccinated people" you were spreading fake news.
Glad we can agree on that.

Why is the hostess' race relevant?

They are protesting for denying entry to unvaccinated black people and calling vaccine mandates an excuse for racism. Race trumps vaccinations for BLM. Sorry that makes you uncomfortable. I can’t help that, you’ll need to speak to BLM leaders who instead of promoting vaccinations are against public safety.

“This vaccination card mandate to create more Sandra Blands, and more Breonna Taylors, it ends here," said Kimberly Bernard, an organizer of the Black Women's March in 2020. "Consider yourself served. Cancel Carmines's!"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 21, 2021, 11:04:37 AM

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/05/study-number-of-kids-hospitalized-for-covid-is-overcounted.html

A little dated and pre-delta but still a good read with relevant data.  Wish more retrospective chart reviews were getting done to get a better understanding of the last 18 months especially as we are on the brink of pushing for kids as young as 5 to get vaccinated.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on September 21, 2021, 11:16:19 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 21, 2021, 11:04:37 AM

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/05/study-number-of-kids-hospitalized-for-covid-is-overcounted.html

A little dated and pre-delta but still a good read with relevant data.  Wish more retrospective chart reviews were getting done to get a better understanding of the last 18 months especially as we are on the brink of pushing for kids as young as 5 to get vaccinated.

Good.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on September 21, 2021, 11:20:14 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 21, 2021, 11:04:37 AM

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/05/study-number-of-kids-hospitalized-for-covid-is-overcounted.html

A little dated and pre-delta but still a good read with relevant data.  Wish more retrospective chart reviews were getting done to get a better understanding of the last 18 months especially as we are on the brink of pushing for kids as young as 5 to get vaccinated.

If it's "dated" and "pre-delta" then it really isn't helpful at all...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on September 21, 2021, 11:21:45 AM

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on September 21, 2021, 10:54:42 AM

They are protesting for denying entry to unvaccinated black people and calling vaccine mandates an excuse for racism. Race trumps vaccinations for BLM. Sorry that makes you uncomfortable. I can’t help that, you’ll need to speak to BLM leaders who instead of promoting vaccinations are against public safety.

“This vaccination card mandate to create more Sandra Blands, and more Breonna Taylors, it ends here," said Kimberly Bernard, an organizer of the Black Women's March in 2020. "Consider yourself served. Cancel Carmines's!"

No matter how many times you repeat a lie, it's still a lie.
The protests are about allegations that people were treated unfairly because of their race and addressed with a racial slur.
Whether that's true or not, I have no idea. Neither do you, despite your ridiculous remarks about an Asian hostess. But one thing we both know is that they're not protesting because they were "kicking out unvaccinated people," as you claimed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on September 21, 2021, 12:48:23 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on September 21, 2021, 11:20:14 AM

If it's "dated" and "pre-delta" then it really isn't helpful at all...

Which was his purpose in posting it. Unfortunately, someone will take the bait.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on September 21, 2021, 01:45:51 PM

A first for an American pro sports team?
The Columbus Blue Jackets tell forward Zac Rinaldo not to stay away from training camp because he's unvaccinated.
Rinaldo, fwiw, is a borderline player, so it's no great sacrifice for the team. It would be interesting to see what might happen if a star player showed up unvaxxed.

https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/32250958/columbus-blue-jackets-unvaccinated-zac-rinaldo-camp

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on September 21, 2021, 02:47:56 PM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/09/18/covid-hospital-bills-insurance-deductible/

Yikes

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on September 21, 2021, 04:13:01 PM

Poster in our Vaccine Hunters group reported that her insurer will no longer cover travel testing as its fir a recreational reason.
I think that will become more the norm - I’m not necessarily opposed to that, frankly.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 21, 2021, 04:29:52 PM

Quote from: jesmu84 on September 21, 2021, 02:47:56 PM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/09/18/covid-hospital-bills-insurance-deductible/

Yikes

Maybe the financial incentive to avoid outrageous hospital bills will convince some to get the vaccine. But probably not many, as it's been made into an emotional and political issue, first and foremost.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 21, 2021, 08:25:05 PM

https://m.theepochtimes.com/north-carolina-hospital-system-suspends-hundreds-of-employees-after-covid-19-vaccine-mandate_4009111.html/amp?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=digitalsub&__twitter_impression=true

Is this the health system you were referring to last week MU82??

Oops just saw you posted this earlier.  Lo siento amigo!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 22, 2021, 07:19:13 AM

Congrats, anti-vax mouth-breathers. You've finally turned the long-ago forecast "death panels" into reality ...

Hospitals overwhelmed by covid are turning to ‘crisis standards of care.’ What does that mean?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/09/22/crisis-standards-of-care/?utm_campaign=wp_the7&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_the7&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F34c0d81%2F614b0f789d2fda9d41ddc089%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F19%2F39%2F614b0f789d2fda9d41ddc089

Long-feared rationing of medical care has become a reality in some parts of the United States as the delta variant drives a new wave of coronavirus cases, pushing hospitals to the brink.

Idaho last week activated statewide crisis standards of care, in which health systems can prioritize patients for scarce resources — based largely on their likelihood of survival — and even deny treatment. The decisions affect covid and non-covid patients. Some hospitals in Montana and Alaska have turned to crisis standards as well, while Hawaii’s governor this month released health workers from liability if they have to ration care.

Some states have no crisis standards of care plan, while others just created them during the pandemic. The common goal: Give health care workers last-resort guidance to make potentially wrenching decisions.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on September 22, 2021, 11:09:31 AM

Sarah Palin = Nostradamus.


Just not the way she thought.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Billy Hoyle on September 22, 2021, 11:42:14 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on September 21, 2021, 11:21:45 AM

No matter how many times you repeat a lie, it's still a lie.
The protests are about allegations that people were treated unfairly because of their race and addressed with a racial slur.
Whether that's true or not, I have no idea. Neither do you, despite your ridiculous remarks about an Asian hostess. But one thing we both know is that they're not protesting because they were "kicking out unvaccinated people," as you claimed.

“Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth.” That's apparently the route you're taking here.

Why did I bring up the hostess? Because the prevailing narrative was she white.

And the terrorists who call themselves "BLM" have specifically said the vaccine mandates are rooted in racism. I get that you're in a very difficult position: support vaccination mandates or bow at the feet of BLM.

Oh, an EXACT QUOTE from one of the leaders of the "rally:"

"This vaccination card mandate to create more Sandra Blands, and more Breonna Taylors, it ends here," said Kimberly Bernard, an organizer of the Black Women's March in 2020. "Consider yourself served. Cancel Carmines's!"

https://patch.com/new-york/upper-west-side-nyc/cancel-carmines-rally-draws-crowd-upper-west-side

Jussie Smollett probably thinks the claims that the hostess used a racist term is absurd. But BLM knows once you put out such a claim the fact it never happened will never be reported. Here's a good book by an HBCU professor about that phenomenon. It's a shame because the hoxes obscure actual hate crimes and cast doubt on their verasity.

https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/hoax-how-the-left-invents-hate-crimes-and-sells-a-fake-race-war-to-the-american-people_wilfred-reilly/19911792/item/44068570/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwqKuKBhCxARIsACf4XuGUiiA9YcB9o7X0xObRZYRLCTA7R-r9BtH-mcuqGm5olBdZrUoiq4kaAnfqEALw_wcB#idiq=44068570&edition=21175485

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 22, 2021, 11:49:44 AM

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on September 22, 2021, 11:42:14 AM

Why did I bring up the hostess? Because the prevailing narrative was she white.

Where?  Certainly not here Cheeks.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on September 22, 2021, 12:20:51 PM

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on September 22, 2021, 11:42:14 AM

“Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth.” That's apparently the route you're taking here.

Why did I bring up the hostess? Because the prevailing narrative was she white.

I'll take things no one said for $2,000.

There used to be another guy around these parts who wouldn't read the links he posted, refused to admit when he was wrong, double downed on every false statement and constantly shifted goalposts when it suited his argument.
Wonder what happened to him.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on September 22, 2021, 01:36:10 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on September 22, 2021, 12:20:51 PM

I'll take things no one said for $2,000.

There used to be another guy around these parts who wouldn't read the links he posted, refused to admit when he was wrong, double downed on every false statement and constantly shifted goalposts when it suited his argument.
Wonder what happened to him.

Pretty sure Billy is not Chicos, but they sure do rhyme.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 22, 2021, 02:34:23 PM

Billy's been very, very angry lately.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 22, 2021, 03:29:52 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 21, 2021, 11:04:37 AM

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/05/study-number-of-kids-hospitalized-for-covid-is-overcounted.html

A little dated and pre-delta but still a good read with relevant data.  Wish more retrospective chart reviews were getting done to get a better understanding of the last 18 months especially as we are on the brink of pushing for kids as young as 5 to get vaccinated.

https://m.theepochtimes.com/study-covid-19-hospitalization-numbers-might-be-significantly-inflated_4006913.html/amp?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=digitalsub&__twitter_impression=true

More recent data and looking at adult population showing a large chunk of “c19” hospitalizations are with asymptomatic patients who are hospitalized for entirely other reasons.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on September 22, 2021, 03:56:51 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 22, 2021, 03:29:52 PM

https://m.theepochtimes.com/study-covid-19-hospitalization-numbers-might-be-significantly-inflated_4006913.html/amp?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=digitalsub&__twitter_impression=true

More recent data and looking at adult population showing a large chunk of “c19” hospitalizations are with asymptomatic patients who are hospitalized for entirely other reasons.

Limitations
Our study has several limitations. The VA population is not representative of the US population as a whole, having few women and no children. We did not control for patients with baseline hypoxemia or oxygen requirement (common among VA patients) or for altitude, and thus some mild cases may have been misclassied as moderate-to-severe. However, to ensure that severe cases are appropriately captured, a denition of high sensitivity is preferable to one favoring specicity. Cases of severe COVID- 19 may have been admitted non-differentially to non-VA hospitals. Some Veterans may have been vaccinated outside of the VA, however, vaccines were typically available within the VA earlier than in the community. Finally, most of the data are from months before the more-transmissible delta variant became dominant. However, proportions of patients with moderate-to-severe respiratory distress or being treated with dexamethasone did not appear to be rising at the end of the observation period (6/30/21)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 22, 2021, 04:14:37 PM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on September 22, 2021, 03:56:51 PM

Limitations
Our study has several limitations. The VA population is not representative of the US population as a whole, having few women and no children. We did not control for patients with baseline hypoxemia or oxygen requirement (common among VA patients) or for altitude, and thus some mild cases may have been misclassi�ed as moderate-to-severe. However, to ensure that severe cases are appropriately captured, a de�nition of high sensitivity is preferable to one favoring speci�city. Cases of severe COVID- 19 may have been admitted non-differentially to non-VA hospitals. Some Veterans may have been vaccinated outside of the VA, however, vaccines were typically available within the VA earlier than in the community. Finally, most of the data are from months before the more-transmissible delta variant became dominant. However, proportions of patients with moderate-to-severe respiratory distress or being treated with dexamethasone did not appear to be rising at the end of the observation period (6/30/21)

Thank you Rico!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on September 22, 2021, 04:22:38 PM

Without commenting on the study (seems Rico took care of that), I do worry that Pace seems to be getting his news these days from The Epoch Times.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on September 22, 2021, 04:33:07 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on September 22, 2021, 04:22:38 PM

Without commenting on the study (seems Rico took care of that), I do worry that Pace seems to be getting his news these days from The Epoch Times.

A reputable source like Redsteeze

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Billy Hoyle on September 22, 2021, 04:38:11 PM

No, Pakuni, it isn't about vaccine mandates at all, it was all about something a hostess allegedly said (which nobody else heard):


Amid the dueling accounts, a Black Lives Matter activist said his group planned to demonstrate outside Carmine’s on Monday to protest the treatment of Black patrons. “Restaurants are using vaccine mandates to enforce their racist beliefs and excluding Black patrons,” said Hawk Newsome, the co-founder and chairman of Black Lives Matter Greater New York.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/18/nyregion/carmines-vaccination-fight.html

To BLM, everything is racist. I guess the leader needs another house...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on September 22, 2021, 05:04:16 PM

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on September 22, 2021, 04:38:11 PM

No, Pakuni, it isn't about vaccine mandates at all, it was all about something a hostess allegedly said (which nobody else heard):


Amid the dueling accounts, a Black Lives Matter activist said his group planned to demonstrate outside Carmine’s on Monday to protest the treatment of Black patrons. “Restaurants are using vaccine mandates to enforce their racist beliefs and excluding Black patrons,” said Hawk Newsome, the co-founder and chairman of Black Lives Matter Greater New York.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/18/nyregion/carmines-vaccination-fight.html

To BLM, everything is racist. I guess the leader needs another house...

I mean, you're still not reading your own links, even when you cut and paste them.

Amid the dueling accounts, a Black Lives Matter activist said his group planned to demonstrate outside Carmine’s on Monday to protest the treatment of Black patrons.

Not "to protest vaccine mandates." To "protest the treatment of Black patrons."
If it were all about vaccine mandates, as you say, why aren't they protesting all restaurants? Theaters? Concert venues? Sports arenas?

By the way, how do you know who heard what?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on September 22, 2021, 05:04:46 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on September 22, 2021, 04:22:38 PM

Without commenting on the study (seems Rico took care of that), I do worry that Pace seems to be getting his news these days from The Epoch Times.

Not keeping up with these things, I had to do some googling.  Quite the glowing reviews!  "Epoch Times is a news site that primarily runs anti-West, anti-American and pro-Kremlin content – a high proportion of this content is based on unverified information"

https://www.isdglobal.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Make-Germany-Great-Again-ENG-061217.pdf

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on September 22, 2021, 05:06:19 PM

Surprising no one.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 22, 2021, 05:34:31 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on September 22, 2021, 04:22:38 PM

Without commenting on the study (seems Rico took care of that), I do worry that Pace seems to be getting his news these days from The Epoch Times.

Thank you Pakuni!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 22, 2021, 05:36:09 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on September 22, 2021, 05:04:46 PM

Not keeping up with these things, I had to do some googling.  Quite the glowing reviews!  "Epoch Times is a news site that primarily runs anti-West, anti-American and pro-Kremlin content – a high proportion of this content is based on unverified information"

https://www.isdglobal.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Make-Germany-Great-Again-ENG-061217.pdf

Thank you Rocky!  Any thoughts on the studies referenced in the article?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 22, 2021, 05:36:36 PM

Quote from: tower912 on September 22, 2021, 05:06:19 PM

Surprising no one.

You the man Tower!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 22, 2021, 05:40:12 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 22, 2021, 03:29:52 PM

https://m.theepochtimes.com/study-covid-19-hospitalization-numbers-might-be-significantly-inflated_4006913.html/amp?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=digitalsub&__twitter_impression=true

More recent data and looking at adult population showing a large chunk of “c19” hospitalizations are with asymptomatic patients who are hospitalized for entirely other reasons.

You're going to want to stop citing the Epoch times if you want anyone to take you seriously.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 22, 2021, 05:44:27 PM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on September 22, 2021, 05:04:46 PM

Not keeping up with these things, I had to do some googling.  Quite the glowing reviews!  "Epoch Times is a news site that primarily runs anti-West, anti-American and pro-Kremlin content – a high proportion of this content is based on unverified information"

https://www.isdglobal.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Make-Germany-Great-Again-ENG-061217.pdf

They're owned by Falun Gong.

If you've got 20 minutes, this is worth a watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck2sV-8ghE4

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 22, 2021, 05:58:21 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on September 22, 2021, 05:40:12 PM

You're going to want to stop citing the Epoch times if you want anyone to take you seriously.

Classic.  Can’t argue the information so instead attack the messenger.  You’re right maybe I should just trust these new sources, they never purposely lie/mislead.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1440744189281533966

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 22, 2021, 06:11:23 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 22, 2021, 05:58:21 PM

Classic.  Can’t argue the information so instead attack the messenger.  You’re right maybe I should just trust these new sources, they never purposely lie/mislead.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1440744189281533966

I don't need to argue the 'information' since it widely considered garbage when it is presented by the Epoch Times.  They're literally propaganda. 

Also, Glenn Greenwald is totally off his nut at this point.  He has been since he left the Intercept in a huff just under a year ago.  He's turned into a twitter debate-lord who can't admit he makes mistakes, and views himself as completely infallible.   He has put out some good journalism in the past, but that doesn't mean everything he does is as gold as his work in Brazil.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on September 22, 2021, 06:12:43 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 22, 2021, 05:58:21 PM

Classic.  Can’t argue the information so instead attack the messenger.  You’re right maybe I should just trust these new sources, they never purposely lie/mislead.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1440744189281533966

Classic deflection and whataboutism.  Linked initial article from a questionable source and failed to even read the findings.  I’m impressed

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 22, 2021, 06:15:23 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on September 22, 2021, 06:11:23 PM

I don't need to argue the 'information' since it widely considered garbage when it is presented by the Epoch Times.  They're literally propaganda. 

Also, Glenn Greenwald is totally off his nut at this point.  He has been since he left the Intercept in a huff just under a year ago.  He's turned into a twitter debate-lord who can't admit he makes mistakes, and views himself as completely infallible.   He has put out some good journalism in the past, but that doesn't mean everything he does is as gold as his work in Brazil.

Only the stuff you agree with right.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 22, 2021, 06:22:52 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 22, 2021, 06:15:23 PM

Only the stuff you agree with right.

You don't even have a clue what I 'agree' with.  I was taught to read the article, not just the headline.  I was taught to verify the veracity of the sources presented.  I was taught to follow the money. 

All things you clearly weren't.

Take your emotions out of this and do your own due diligence before posting hot garbage and expecting the people here to pretend it's prime rib... Unless you love getting dunked on repeatedly... but you do strike me as a masochist in that regard, so who really knows.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-epoch-times/  Also, google is your friend.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on September 22, 2021, 07:03:49 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 22, 2021, 05:34:31 PM

Thank you Pakuni!

Just hoping you don't fall down the Q hole.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 22, 2021, 08:12:13 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on September 22, 2021, 06:22:52 PM

You don't even have a clue what I 'agree' with.  I was taught to read the article, not just the headline.  I was taught to verify the veracity of the sources presented.  I was taught to follow the money. 

All things you clearly weren't.

Take your emotions out of this and do your own due diligence before posting hot garbage and expecting the people here to pretend it's prime rib... Unless you love getting dunked on repeatedly... but you do strike me as a masochist in that regard, so who really knows.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-epoch-times/  Also, google is your friend.

You act like it was the staff of the Epoch times who did the retrospective studies.  By poo pooing this article it’s not the Epoch times legitimacy your questioning it’s the medical professionals at Tufts, Harvard Medical School, and the VA who did the work.  So let’s take the messenger out of it.  Below is PDF to the study.  Thoughts on that?

https://assets.researchsquare.com/files/rs-898254/v1/f2800895-4df3-4945-85ae-c1be66aaca23.pdf?c=1631889328

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 22, 2021, 08:13:03 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on September 22, 2021, 07:03:49 PM

Just hoping you don't fall down the Q hole.

ROFLMAO 🤣 Good one Pakuni, didn’t know you had that kind of humor in you!!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on September 22, 2021, 08:49:52 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 22, 2021, 05:36:09 PM

Thank you Rocky!  Any thoughts on the studies referenced in the article?

(https://images2.imgbox.com/67/c8/Cz84nBVx_o.jpg) (https://imgbox.com/Cz84nBVx)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 22, 2021, 08:51:14 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 22, 2021, 08:12:13 PM

You act like it was the staff of the Epoch times who did the retrospective studies.  By poo pooing this article it’s not the Epoch times legitimacy your questioning it’s the medical professionals at Tufts, Harvard Medical School, and the VA who did the work.  So let’s take the messenger out of it.  Below is PDF to the study.  Thoughts on that?

https://assets.researchsquare.com/files/rs-898254/v1/f2800895-4df3-4945-85ae-c1be66aaca23.pdf?c=1631889328

You're misrepresenting what I said.  I'm poo pooing the article on it's face because it is inflammatory nonsense.  Why does it matter to anyone how many hospitalizations there are due to Covid?  Saying they're Covid related hospitalizations vs hospitalizations due to severe Covid is semantics.  And that is a job best left to reporting of data.  If you want to argue that this matters one bit, go off, king. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 22, 2021, 09:04:56 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on September 22, 2021, 08:51:14 PM

You're misrepresenting what I said.  I'm poo pooing the article on it's face because it is inflammatory nonsense.  Why does it matter to anyone how many hospitalizations there are due to Covid?  Saying they're Covid related hospitalizations vs hospitalizations due to severe Covid is semantics.  And that is a job best left to reporting of data.  If you want to argue that this matters one bit, go off, king.

Why does it matter how many hospitalizations are associated to Covid, you serious Clark? #keepsciencing right Tower!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on September 22, 2021, 09:10:29 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on September 22, 2021, 08:49:52 PM

(https://images2.imgbox.com/67/c8/Cz84nBVx_o.jpg) (https://imgbox.com/Cz84nBVx)

lol. Is this where we are really at, finding info on epoch times.

Sad, sad times indeed.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on September 22, 2021, 09:12:17 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on September 22, 2021, 05:44:27 PM

They're owned by Falun Gong.

If you've got 20 minutes, this is worth a watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck2sV-8ghE4

They have a trippy ass logo tho!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 22, 2021, 09:21:45 PM

Quote from: forgetful on September 22, 2021, 09:10:29 PM

lol. Is this where we are really at, finding info on epoch times.

Sad, sad times indeed.

Any meaningful input on the work being done by the folks at Harvard, Tufts, etc or just saving the thoughtful hard hitting analysis for your opinions on Epoch Times.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on September 22, 2021, 09:27:17 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 22, 2021, 09:21:45 PM

Any meaningful input on the work being done by the folks at Harvard, Tufts, etc or just saving the thoughtful hard hitting analysis for your opinions on Epoch Times.

Not peer reviewed.

No actual independent data, it is a retrospective analysis using medical records.

They have a massive laundry list of their own limitations that they acknowledge as limiting the take home message.

And the "Harvard" connection is an adjunct with the Boston VA healthcare system, who doesn't appear on any Harvard faculty lists. She has never affiliated herself with Harvard in a publication, and still doesn't here, besides including a Harvard email address (she is a Harvard alum).

Even the 5-min it took me to read it was a colossal waste of my time.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 23, 2021, 06:21:10 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 22, 2021, 09:04:56 PM

Why does it matter how many hospitalizations are associated to Covid, you serious Clark? #keepsciencing right Tower!

Mild cases vs severe cases, yes, why does it matter?  Pray tell.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 23, 2021, 06:53:21 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on September 23, 2021, 06:21:10 AM

Mild cases vs severe cases, yes, why does it matter?  Pray tell.

Asymptomatic cases are getting looped in as well.  We’ve been talking about the stress hospitals are currently under with census, extra resources needed when treating a Covid positive, etc and there is now solid data showing that half of these patients should be at home sleeping it off like Tower did.

Hospitalization rate affects policy and ultimately these Covid positive who are asymptomatic or have mild symptoms are getting included in the IFR data as well when it had nothing to do with the death.  It matters for everything, especially for pediatric population as a lot of those guidelines/policy is still being put together.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on September 23, 2021, 07:35:22 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 23, 2021, 06:53:21 AM

Asymptomatic cases are getting looped in as well.  We’ve been talking about the stress hospitals are currently under with census, extra resources needed when treating a Covid positive, etc and there is now solid data showing that half of these patients should be at home sleeping it off like Tower did.

Hospitalization rate affects policy and ultimately these Covid positive who are asymptomatic or have mild symptoms are getting included in the IFR data as well when it had nothing to do with the death.  It matters for everything, especially for pediatric population as a lot of those guidelines/policy is still being put together.

Of course this is only true if you ignore that massive paragraph on limitations

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on September 23, 2021, 07:38:50 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 22, 2021, 08:12:13 PM

You act like it was the staff of the Epoch times who did the retrospective studies.  By poo pooing this article it’s not the Epoch times legitimacy your questioning it’s the medical professionals at Tufts, Harvard Medical School, and the VA who did the work.  So let’s take the messenger out of it.  Below is PDF to the study.  Thoughts on that?

https://assets.researchsquare.com/files/rs-898254/v1/f2800895-4df3-4945-85ae-c1be66aaca23.pdf?c=1631889328

At the very top of the page:

"Preprints are preliminary reports that have not undergone peer review. They should not be considered conclusive, used to inform clinical practice or referenced by the media as validated information."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on September 23, 2021, 07:39:37 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on September 23, 2021, 07:35:22 AM

Of course this is only true if you ignore that massive paragraph on limitations

And that the vast majority of the data came from months before Delta was the predominant variant in the U.S.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 23, 2021, 08:41:35 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on September 23, 2021, 07:38:50 AM

At the very top of the page:

"Preprints are preliminary reports that have not undergone peer review. They should not be considered conclusive, used to inform clinical practice or referenced by the media as validated information."

Absolutely, it was a follow up to the other peer reviewed studies out of California that I posted a day or so earlier showing the same thing.  Obviously peer reviewed is gold standard but with standard c19 testing for all patients going into the hospital it shouldn’t be shocking that a lot of patients are getting caught up in that giant net of c19 positivity who are showing minima to no symptoms but are going in for a hip replacement, appendicitis, etc.

As more and more people get vaccinated if we don’t start categorizing or explaining in better detail what these hospitalizations truly represent I think it will further feed the anti-vaccine movement. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on September 23, 2021, 09:32:06 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 23, 2021, 08:41:35 AM

Absolutely, it was a follow up to the other peer reviewed studies out of California that I posted a day or so earlier showing the same thing.  Obviously peer reviewed is gold standard but with standard c19 testing for all patients going into the hospital it shouldn’t be shocking that a lot of patients are getting caught up in that giant net of c19 positivity who are showing minima to no symptoms but are going in for a hip replacement, appendicitis, etc.

As more and more people get vaccinated if we don’t start categorizing or explaining in better detail what these hospitalizations truly represent I think it will further feed the anti-vaccine movement.

Mhm

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 23, 2021, 12:20:43 PM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 23, 2021, 06:53:21 AM

Asymptomatic cases are getting looped in as well.  We’ve been talking about the stress hospitals are currently under with census, extra resources needed when treating a Covid positive, etc and there is now solid data showing that half of these patients should be at home sleeping it off like Tower did.

Hospitalization rate affects policy and ultimately these Covid positive who are asymptomatic or have mild symptoms are getting included in the IFR data as well when it had nothing to do with the death.  It matters for everything, especially for pediatric population as a lot of those guidelines/policy is still being put together.

This isn't the smoking gun that you seem to think it is.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 23, 2021, 01:01:25 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on September 23, 2021, 12:20:43 PM

This isn't the smoking gun that you seem to think it is.

Not sure I’m looking for a “smoking gun” but as the below study shows and what has become widely known is that even if you’re double poked you can still get c19.  If we don’t stop universally testing every hospitalized patient for c19 it’s going to start painting vaccine efficacy (when it comes to preventing hospitalization at least) in a much more negative light then it should be. 

If this fall when we have a bunch of people getting elective surgeries who are vaccinated but still  testing positive (despite minor symptoms) without providing clarification to their symptoms it’s going to make vaccine hesitant people feel more empowered/reluctant to get the shot imo.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7038e3.htm?s_cid=mm7038e3_x#suggestedcitation

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on September 23, 2021, 02:18:05 PM

Please for the love of god stop responding to the obvious troll

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on September 23, 2021, 02:36:54 PM

The ignore button has been my friend for some time.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 23, 2021, 04:30:28 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on September 23, 2021, 02:18:05 PM

Please for the love of god stop responding to the obvious troll

Some people need the attention 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 23, 2021, 11:36:34 PM

nm

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 24, 2021, 05:48:03 AM

Quote from: PaceArrow02 on September 23, 2021, 01:01:25 PM

Not sure I’m looking for a “smoking gun” but as the below study shows and what has become widely known is that even if you’re double poked you can still get c19.  If we don’t stop universally testing every hospitalized patient for c19 it’s going to start painting vaccine efficacy (when it comes to preventing hospitalization at least) in a much more negative light then it should be. 

If this fall when we have a bunch of people getting elective surgeries who are vaccinated but still  testing positive (despite minor symptoms) without providing clarification to their symptoms it’s going to make vaccine hesitant people feel more empowered/reluctant to get the shot imo.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7038e3.htm?s_cid=mm7038e3_x#suggestedcitation

Okay dude.  Enjoy your mat.

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71oWqjFMARL._AC_SX425_.jpg)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on September 24, 2021, 08:47:36 AM

Quote from: MU82 on September 23, 2021, 11:36:34 PM

**snip**

Not that I don't agree with everything you posted here but this is the coronavirus thread not general politics. This seems to be just general politics.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 24, 2021, 09:20:48 AM

Quote from: Galway Eagle on September 24, 2021, 08:47:36 AM

Not that I don't agree with everything you posted here but this is the coronavirus thread not general politics. This seems to be just general politics.

You're right. I'll hang up on the COVID-19 board and listen for the rest of the day. Have a good one, Galway.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on September 25, 2021, 07:08:35 AM

I encourage all to listen to this podcast featuring Scott Gottlieb. They discuss early covid response and how to battle future pandemics

https://freakonomics.com/podcast/fmd-scott-gottlieb/

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on September 28, 2021, 07:25:17 AM

How Covid Misinformation Created a Run on Animal Medicine

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/28/technology/ivermectin-animal-medicine-shortage.html?campaign_id=4&emc=edit_dk_20210928&instance_id=41492&nl=dealbook&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=70086&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

For more than a year, misinformation that ivermectin is effective at treating or preventing the coronavirus has run rampant across social media, podcasts and talk radio. Even as the Food and Drug Administration has said the drug is not approved to cure Covid and has warned people against taking it, media personalities who have cast doubt on coronavirus vaccines, such as the podcaster Joe Rogan, have promoted ivermectin for that very purpose.

The inaccuracies have led to some people overdosing on certain formulations of the drug, which has then stretched doctors and hospitals. But at the very tail end of the misinformation trail are people, like veterinarians, who regularly use the medicine for the animal treatments that it was approved for.

Many vets have run out of the once-plentiful drug because humans are taking their supply.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on September 29, 2021, 09:07:55 PM

The unvaccinated have this to look forward to.

COVID may cause 'restless anal syndrome' - report

https://m.jpost.com/health-and-wellness/covid-may-cause-restless-anal-syndrome-report-680582

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on September 30, 2021, 05:59:55 PM

Totally normal.

BOISE, Idaho (AP) — A constant barrage of misinformation has Idaho health care workers facing increased animosity from some patients and community members, officials say. It’s gotten so bad in northern Idaho that some Kootenai Health employees are scared to go to the grocery store if they haven’t changed out of their scrubs, said hospital spokeswoman Caiti Bobbitt on Tuesday.

Some doctors and nurses at the Coeur d’Alene hospital have been accused of killing patients by grieving family members who don’t believe COVID-19 is real, Bobbitt said. Others have been the subject of hurtful rumors spread by people angry about the pandemic.

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-business-health-idaho-misinformation-ccef8a30babfa4a40c68d701a09e59f3

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on September 30, 2021, 06:33:13 PM

Violent Anti-vaxxers are a republican thing.
I’m sorry if that offends some people here 

They go after health care workers, school board members, election officials, etc.

These are sick, sick people.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on October 01, 2021, 06:05:53 AM

Sounds like we have a pill treatment now.  Amazing how fast the therapy/vaccines have moved. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/10/01/pill-to-treat-covid/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/10/01/pill-to-treat-covid/)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on October 01, 2021, 06:40:19 AM

The COVID Karens:  There is only a pill because of ivermectin.

Or:  It was developed too fast.   I am going to keep swabbing my nose with Lysol.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on October 01, 2021, 07:57:06 AM

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on October 01, 2021, 06:05:53 AM

Sounds like we have a pill treatment now.  Amazing how fast the therapy/vaccines have moved. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/10/01/pill-to-treat-covid/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/10/01/pill-to-treat-covid/)

That's amazing news.  Except of course almost all people who are getting sick enough for hospitalization are not vaccinated.   If they won't take the shot safely given to 1.5 billion people, are they going to trust a drug that'll keep them from the hospital?

Likely not.

It's great news for people not infected with US politics, though, so a global winner.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on October 01, 2021, 07:58:59 AM

But, when they belatedly ask for the vaccine, they can be given this pill which will improve their survival odds.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pbiflyer on October 01, 2021, 08:00:01 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on October 01, 2021, 07:57:06 AM

That's amazing news.  Except of course almost all people who are getting sick enough for hospitalization are not vaccinated.   If they won't take the shot safely given to 1.5 billion people, are they going to trust a drug that'll keep them from the hospital?

Likely not.

Depends who promotes it. Here in Florida they are lining up for an experimental 4 shot antibodies treatment…..because they don’t trust a proven vaccine. All because trump wannabe DeSantis says to take it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on October 01, 2021, 08:07:59 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on October 01, 2021, 07:57:06 AM

That's amazing news.  Except of course almost all people who are getting sick enough for hospitalization are not vaccinated.   If they won't take the shot safely given to 1.5 billion people, are they going to trust a drug that'll keep them from the hospital?

Likely not.

It's great news for people not infected with US politics, though, so a global winner.

Well for some reason they love Mono-clonal anti-bodies in FL.  Maybe someone will try to make this cool too.

I really dont get it...it's a special kind of stubborn to put yourself in harms way for something so bankrupt as politics.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 01, 2021, 08:54:06 AM

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on October 01, 2021, 07:57:06 AM

That's amazing news.  Except of course almost all people who are getting sick enough for hospitalization are not vaccinated.   If they won't take the shot safely given to 1.5 billion people, are they going to trust a drug that'll keep them from the hospital?

Likely not.

It's great news for people not infected with US politics, though, so a global winner.

If Biden, with Fauci by his side, publicly questions the efficacy of the pill (wink, wink), the anti-vaxxers will be begging for it!

In other news ...

Kavanaugh has COVID-19. He's fully vaccinated, and he has no symptoms.

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-health-amy-coney-barrett-courts-us-supreme-court-5c24ffb572dd34a8b24f226fc2211b7a

Sources say he caught it at Tobin's from either Squi or PJ.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on October 01, 2021, 09:30:31 AM

No big deal then on Brett. Why is this news? That's the result of testing positive when double vaccinated. BFD, aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 01, 2021, 10:27:27 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 01, 2021, 09:30:31 AM

No big deal then on Brett. Why is this news? That's the result of testing positive when double vaccinated. BFD, aina?

It's news because it's a Supreme Court justice. And it's news because the next SCOTUS session begins Monday, and as of right now it's not certain how Kavanaugh and the court will be affected.

And BTW, it was the court that issued the press release. You apparently believe that news organizations should have just ignored it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on October 01, 2021, 03:24:57 PM

Quote from: pbiflyer on October 01, 2021, 08:00:01 AM

Depends who promotes it. Here in Florida they are lining up for an experimental 4 shot antibodies treatment…..because they don’t trust a proven vaccine. All because trump wannabe DeSantis says to take it.

How do they justify this? It is just as science-y as getting a vaccine. Did desantis tell them it’s just a byproduct of cooking meth?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on October 01, 2021, 04:02:02 PM

New one today.   Ran on an active COVID patient.  I asked if he was vaccinated and he swore at me.

He sure showed me.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on October 01, 2021, 04:35:53 PM

Quote from: Jockey on October 01, 2021, 03:24:57 PM

How do they justify this? It is just as science-y as getting a vaccine. Did desantis tell them it’s just a byproduct of cooking meth?

Look, they are willing to chance dying just to own the libs; science has nothing to do with it. If Biden and Fauci told them the antibodies were safe and proven effective and they should take them they'd run away screaming in the other direction.

The vaccine is being promoted by the evil liberals, they will do anything, including ingesting livestock de-wormer, to avoid taking it. People willing to die for absolutely no reason other than their TV told them to is brainwashing of the highest order. These dupes would know science from a séance.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 01, 2021, 11:25:58 PM

Cause of death: Stupidity.

The United States surpassed 700,000 deaths from the coronavirus on Friday, a milestone that few experts had anticipated months ago when vaccines became widely available to the American public.

An overwhelming majority of Americans who have died in recent months, a period in which the country has offered broad access to shots, were unvaccinated. The United States has had one of the highest recent death rates of any country with an ample supply of vaccines.

The new and alarming surge of deaths this summer means that the coronavirus pandemic has become the deadliest in American history, overtaking the toll from the influenza pandemic of 1918 and 1919, which killed about 675,000 people.

“This Delta wave just rips through the unvaccinated,” said Howard Markel, a medical historian at the University of Michigan. The deaths that have followed the wide availability of vaccines, he added, are “absolutely needless.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/01/us/us-covid-deaths-700k.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20211001&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=70493&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on October 03, 2021, 01:40:39 AM

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2021/09/30/2-visitors-california-arrested-uploading-fake-covid-test-results/

Oh Lazar, wouldn’t it have been easier just to go pay for a test?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on October 03, 2021, 01:52:46 AM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on October 03, 2021, 01:40:39 AM

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2021/09/30/2-visitors-california-arrested-uploading-fake-covid-test-results/

Oh Lazar, wouldn’t it have been easier just to go pay for a test?

Oh my god. Wtf. I love Lazar and genuinely feel he was mistreated by media compared to the ridiculous bs some other NBA players say but come on.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on October 03, 2021, 08:10:31 AM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on October 03, 2021, 01:40:39 AM

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2021/09/30/2-visitors-california-arrested-uploading-fake-covid-test-results/

Oh Lazar, wouldn’t it have been easier just to go pay for a test?

Sure sounds like the same Lazar we always knew.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: HutchwasClutch on October 03, 2021, 08:22:25 AM

Quote from: Jockey on October 03, 2021, 08:10:31 AM

Sure sounds like the same Lazar we always knew.

Really?  WTH would that be.  I’d like to hear more. Because I’ve never heard anything that suggests he’s a slug of a person. Just the opposite. 

But I’ll keep an open mind what’s out there about him. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 03, 2021, 09:46:31 AM

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on October 03, 2021, 08:22:25 AM

Really?  WTH would that be.  I’d like to hear more. Because I’ve never heard anything that suggests he’s a slug of a person. Just the opposite. 

But I’ll keep an open mind what’s out there about him.

He's a great guy, but he has always been sort of 'out there'.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on October 03, 2021, 10:43:39 AM

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on October 03, 2021, 08:22:25 AM

Really?  WTH would that be.  I’d like to hear more. Because I’ve never heard anything that suggests he’s a slug of a person. Just the opposite. 

But I’ll keep an open mind what’s out there about him.

He does his own research.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 03, 2021, 11:08:09 AM

Example #8466 on how one's "personal choice" regarding the vaccine doesn't only affect him or her ...

From the NYT:

In Alaska’s Covid crisis, doctors must decide who lives and who dies.

Overloaded facilities in the lower 48 states are able to transfer patients to neighboring cities and states. In Anchorage, most of the help is 1,500 miles away in Seattle. As Alaska struggles with the nation’s worst Covid outbreak, doctors are rationing oxygen, treating patients in hallways and sometimes denying emergency surgery.

I guess these are the "death panels" that Alaska's former governor railed about.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on October 03, 2021, 04:42:52 PM

Quote from: MU82 on October 01, 2021, 11:25:58 PM

Cause of death: Stupidity. Brainwashing.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on October 03, 2021, 04:55:46 PM

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on October 03, 2021, 08:22:25 AM

Really?  WTH would that be.  I’d like to hear more. Because I’ve never heard anything that suggests he’s a slug of a person. Just the opposite. 

But I’ll keep an open mind what’s out there about him.

He sees dead people.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 04, 2021, 07:45:48 AM

Interesting, encouraging piece by the NYT's David Leonhardt about COVID-19's 2-month cycle.

https://messaging-custom-newsletters.nytimes.com/template/oakv2?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20211004&instance_id=41974&nl=the-morning&productCode=NN&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=70605&te=1&uri=nyt%3A%2F%2Fnewsletter%2F1de5b57c-1efd-5bb4-8059-da425ee636aa&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

Cases, hospitalizations and deaths have been slowly declining for the last several weeks, continuing a pattern of 2-month cycles for the virus.

That 76% of Americans are now vaccinated, that kids as young as 5 soon will be able to be vaccinated, and that a large percentage of the U.S. population already has been infected ... all that has some experts believing that this past 2-month cycle might have been the last because there are so many fewer potential hosts.

“Barring something unexpected,” Dr. Scott Gottlieb, a former F.D.A. commissioner and the author of “Uncontrolled Spread,” a new book on Covid, told me, “I’m of the opinion that this is the last major wave of infection.”

That doesn't mean Covid is over; there will still be cases, many severe or deadly. Just that it finally could turn into something more like the flu. Unless, of course, there's a new variant on the horizon.

Then there was this sobering paragraph near the end:

Covid has not only been one of the worst pandemics in modern times. It has been an unnecessarily terrible pandemic. Of the more than 700,000 Americans who have died from it, nearly 200,000 probably could have been saved if they had chosen to take a vaccine. That is a national tragedy.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on October 06, 2021, 09:38:33 PM

  "Cases, hospitalizations and deaths have been slowly declining...?


  weird those stations no one watches isn't running the covid death tracker on their screens anymore.  i'm sure he isn't aware of this but ice cream face just passed up orange jubilee with over 350k deaths and we've got 3 mos to go.  this with 3 vax's and fowski the "expert" at his side...hmmm...pass the rocky road with a side of crow, eyn'a?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on October 06, 2021, 09:43:21 PM

Too much nitrous oxide causes brain damage.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 06, 2021, 10:18:41 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on October 06, 2021, 09:38:33 PM

  "Cases, hospitalizations and deaths have been slowly declining...?


  weird those stations no one watches isn't running the covid death tracker on their screens anymore.  i'm sure he isn't aware of this but ice cream face just passed up orange jubilee with over 350k deaths and we've got 3 mos to go.  this with 3 vax's and fowski the "expert" at his side...hmmm...pass the rocky road with a side of crow, eyn'a?

If conspiracy-theory spewing dipshytes, dentists pushing every fake "cure" out there, and southern GOP governors weren't undermining the vaccine that your god fast-tracked, COVID-19 would be over now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on October 07, 2021, 05:21:18 AM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on October 06, 2021, 09:38:33 PM

  "Cases, hospitalizations and deaths have been slowly declining...?


  weird those stations no one watches isn't running the covid death tracker on their screens anymore.  i'm sure he isn't aware of this but ice cream face just passed up orange jubilee with over 350k deaths and we've got 3 mos to go.  this with 3 vax's and fowski the "expert" at his side...hmmm...pass the rocky road with a side of crow, eyn'a?

This is really great work. I appreciate the addition of color and “ice cream face” is a classic insult.  Fowski is weak but you make up for it with using quotation marks around “expert”.

This would be a 10 out of 10 if you linked to some conspiracy sites or outdated and easily disproved data, so I can’t give you 10.  Still, 9 out of 10. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 07, 2021, 06:43:36 AM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on October 06, 2021, 09:38:33 PM

  "Cases, hospitalizations and deaths have been slowly declining...?


  weird those stations no one watches isn't running the covid death tracker on their screens anymore.  i'm sure he isn't aware of this but ice cream face just passed up orange jubilee with over 350k deaths and we've got 3 mos to go.  this with 3 vax's and fowski the "expert" at his side...hmmm...pass the rocky road with a side of crow, eyn'a?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5Gf0VKXk5Q

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on October 07, 2021, 07:20:19 AM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on October 06, 2021, 09:38:33 PM

  "Cases, hospitalizations and deaths have been slowly declining...?


  weird those stations no one watches isn't running the covid death tracker on their screens anymore.  i'm sure he isn't aware of this but ice cream face just passed up orange jubilee with over 350k deaths and we've got 3 mos to go.  this with 3 vax's and fowski the "expert" at his side...hmmm...pass the rocky road with a side of crow, eyn'a?

Yeah butt, FD Joe promised heed kontrol da virus. Watt happened, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on October 07, 2021, 07:38:54 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 07, 2021, 07:20:19 AM

Yeah butt, FD Joe promised heed kontrol da virus. Watt happened, hey?

Republican governors and Fox News, mostly.  Dying too own the libs is a helluva thing

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on October 07, 2021, 07:56:36 AM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on October 06, 2021, 09:38:33 PM

  "Cases, hospitalizations and deaths have been slowly declining...?


  weird those stations no one watches isn't running the covid death tracker on their screens anymore.  i'm sure he isn't aware of this but ice cream face just passed up orange jubilee with over 350k deaths and we've got 3 mos to go.  this with 3 vax's and fowski the "expert" at his side...hmmm...pass the rocky road with a side of crow, eyn'a?

The CBS Evening News either last night or the night before had a long segment on how cases and deaths are trailing off with discussions on factors such as increased vaccination rates, people recovering from the disease and the two month surges that have been brought up here before.

So perhaps you should diversify your news sources instead of assuming what they say.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on October 07, 2021, 07:57:42 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 07, 2021, 07:20:19 AM

Yeah butt, FD Joe promised heed kontrol da virus. Watt happened, hey?

By and large the virus is under control for the vaccinated.  So we should be encouraging / requiring vaccinations.  But one party seems opposed to that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on October 07, 2021, 08:00:32 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 07, 2021, 07:20:19 AM

Yeah butt, FD Joe promised heed kontrol da virus. Watt happened, hey?

Stupidity happened.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on October 07, 2021, 08:20:23 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 07, 2021, 07:20:19 AM

Yeah butt, FD Joe promised heed kontrol da virus. Watt happened, hey?

Rubes fell for the grifters.   Willing to die to own the libs.   Or, to borrow from Ron White, you can't fix stupid.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on October 07, 2021, 09:35:24 AM

Yeah butt, 382k died under his watch, aka blood on his hands, aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on October 07, 2021, 09:43:45 AM

Let's see, one side is ruthlessly causing as much chaos as possible by sowing doubts about an amazing vaccine, promoting useless treatments, and vehemently and sometimes violently opposing any and every sort of public health measure that could stop the spread of the disease, killing their followers in the process, all in order to attempt to regain political power.

And their followers--those that are still alive--mindlessly blame the other side for the mess they've intentionally created.

What pathetic sheep.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on October 07, 2021, 10:21:23 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on October 07, 2021, 09:43:45 AM

Let's see, one side is ruthlessly causing as much chaos as possible by sowing doubts about an amazing vaccine, promoting useless treatments, and vehemently and sometimes violently opposing any and every sort of public health measure that could stop the spread of the disease, killing their followers in the process, all in order to attempt to regain political power.

And their followers--those that are still alive--mindlessly blame the other side for the mess they've intentionally created.

What pathetic sheep.

The pandemic has revealed the intentional cruelty of many Americans. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on October 07, 2021, 10:26:40 AM

So XXXIV, you're one of those who crucified President Trump for contributing to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans. Yet, FD Joe has had more U.S. deaths, under his watch in 9 months, than Trump had in all of 2020.
I see how the kinder, gentler, woke crowd operates. Shamefully, you're much too old to fall for their rhetoric, aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on October 07, 2021, 10:30:04 AM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on October 06, 2021, 09:38:33 PM

  "Cases, hospitalizations and deaths have been slowly declining...?


  weird those stations no one watches isn't running the covid death tracker on their screens anymore.  i'm sure he isn't aware of this but ice cream face just passed up orange jubilee with over 350k deaths and we've got 3 mos to go.  this with 3 vax's and fowski the "expert" at his side...hmmm...pass the rocky road with a side of crow, eyn'a?

Is it exhausting devoting so much energy to twisting reality to confirm your priors? Especially when doing so must by necessity fixate on profound negativity. Do you ever wonder what it would be like to turn off the tv, log off of facebook, and just... live for a minute without doing... all of this?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on October 07, 2021, 10:31:02 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 07, 2021, 10:26:40 AM

So, you're one of those who crucified President Trump for contributing to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans. Yet, FD Joe has had more U.S. deaths, under his watch in 9 months, than Trump had in all of 2020.
I see how the kinder, gentler, woke crowd operates. Shamefully, you're much too old to fall for their rhetoric, aina?

If a patient comes in to your office and says "I read that eating cake (HCQ Invermectin) will fix this cavity so I don't need your fillings or root canal (vaccine) and I will continue not to brush (masks)" would you blame yourself for when they lose their tooth?

Meanwhile if you came out and said "I read that eating cake (HCQ) will fix your teeth, I'm eating cake (HCQ) and refusing to brush (masks)." would it be fair for everyone to blame you when they lose their teeth?

Instance 1 is Biden's scenario.

Instance 2 is Trump's scenario.

See how they aren't the same?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on October 07, 2021, 10:34:42 AM

You're 100% correct. There is zero comparison to be drawn between President Trump and FD Joe...none, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 07, 2021, 10:40:20 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 07, 2021, 10:26:40 AM

So XXXIV, you're one of those who crucified President Trump for contributing to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans. Yet, FD Joe has had more U.S. deaths, under his watch in 9 months, than Trump had in all of 2020.
I see how the kinder, gentler, woke crowd operates. Shamefully, you're much too old to fall for their rhetoric, aina?

I guess I didn't know that brain disease was so rampant in the dentistry field.  You need the number for the old folks home?  Hitting the NO2 a little hard today, pops?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on October 07, 2021, 10:42:37 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 07, 2021, 10:34:42 AM

You're 100% correct. There is zero comparison to be drawn between President Trump and FD Joe...none, hey?

Exactly, because one told people to be idiots. One told people not to and they did it anyways.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on October 07, 2021, 10:45:08 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on October 07, 2021, 10:40:20 AM

I guess I didn't know that brain disease was so rampant in the dentistry field.  You need the number for the old folks home?  Hitting the NO2 a little hard today, pops?

You'd be shocked if you actually knew the amount of fentanyl that went "missing" from dental offices...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on October 07, 2021, 10:45:12 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 07, 2021, 10:26:40 AM

So XXXIV, you're one of those who crucified President Trump for contributing to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans. Yet, FD Joe has had more U.S. deaths, under his watch in 9 months, than Trump had in all of 2020.
I see how the kinder, gentler, woke crowd operates. Shamefully, you're much too old to fall for their rhetoric, aina?

Fake news. There were more deaths before Jan. 20 than since.
And one would think that an esteemed medical professional such as yourself would know better to think that COVID is some kind of spigot.
You're a lot of things, Doc, but I don't think "stupid" and "liar" are among them. Be better.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on October 07, 2021, 10:45:44 AM

Let's not minimize under who's watch the vaccination came to be.
The other can't spell vaccine if you spotted him the 3 vowels, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on October 07, 2021, 10:45:53 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 07, 2021, 10:26:40 AM

So XXXIV, you're one of those who crucified President Trump for contributing to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans. Yet, FD Joe has had more U.S. deaths, under his watch in 9 months, than Trump had in all of 2020.
I see how the kinder, gentler, woke crowd operates. Shamefully, you're much too old to fall for their rhetoric, aina?

Even when you speak English, you sound as dumb as rocket.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 07, 2021, 10:57:06 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 07, 2021, 10:45:44 AM

Let's not minimize under who's watch the vaccination came to be.

Most "came to be" under Pfizer's scientists' watch.

But it is ironic -- actually, probably more moronic -- that it's mostly your god's followers who are refusing to get the vaccine that they, like you, want to credit him for inventing. The cultists would rather go against their god and die than do what's right ... because too many "socialists" say vaccination is good.

And having seen GOP politicians get booed for promoting vaccinations, and always wanting to kowtow to his cultists, your god is now publicly saying he won't get a booster shot.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 07, 2021, 10:59:18 AM

Quote from: rocky_warrior on October 07, 2021, 10:45:08 AM

You'd be shocked if you actually knew the amount of fentanyl that went "missing" from dental offices...

I think I know where the majority of it is going.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on October 07, 2021, 11:00:16 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 07, 2021, 10:26:40 AM

So XXXIV, you're one of those who crucified President Trump for contributing to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans. Yet, FD Joe has had more U.S. deaths, under his watch in 9 months, than Trump had in all of 2020.
I see how the kinder, gentler, woke crowd operates. Shamefully, you're much too old to fall for their rhetoric, aina?

Are you really this dumb?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on October 07, 2021, 11:02:11 AM

Quote from: Jockey on October 07, 2021, 10:45:53 AM

Even when you speak English, you sound as dumb as rocket.

Smart enough not to sell lady's bloomers, doe, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on October 07, 2021, 11:06:32 AM

4ever's gonna spin to justify who he voted for.  Nothing new here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on October 07, 2021, 11:15:27 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on October 07, 2021, 11:06:32 AM

4ever's gonna spin to justify who he voted for.  Nothing new here.

Yes, he voted for a grifter and criminal

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on October 07, 2021, 11:17:31 AM

Quote from: MU82 on October 07, 2021, 10:57:06 AM

Most "came to be" under Pfizer's scientists' watch.

But it is ironic -- actually, probably more moronic -- that it's mostly your god's followers who are refusing to get the vaccine that they, like you, want to credit him for inventing. The cultists would rather go against their god and die than do what's right ... because too many "socialists" say vaccination is good.

And having seen GOP politicians get booed for promoting vaccinations, and always wanting to kowtow to his cultists, your god is now publicly saying he won't get a booster shot.

I only push my own little wagon. Fully vaxed and booster is scheduled, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 07, 2021, 11:17:52 AM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 07, 2021, 11:15:27 AM

Yes, he voted for a grifter and criminal

You mean the lifelong Democrat elitist who was born in Queens with a silver spoon in his mouth, but still manage to be the biggest failson in history until his own son came along?

That guy?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocky_warrior on October 07, 2021, 11:22:19 AM

Ahem...go a little lighter on the politics gents...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on October 07, 2021, 11:26:54 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 07, 2021, 10:26:40 AM

So XXXIV, you're one of those who crucified President Trump for contributing to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans. Yet, FD Joe has had more U.S. deaths, under his watch in 9 months, than Trump had in all of 2020.
I see how the kinder, gentler, woke crowd operates. Shamefully, you're much too old to fall for their rhetoric, aina?

1. Half of the deaths since Biden took office occurred in the first ~1-month he was in office. Those individuals contracted COVID COVID prior to his inauguration, or at the very least within the first week he was in office.

2. Those cases occurred before a vaccine was widely available, and before immunity from the vaccine would have set in.

3. COVID set in, in March of 2020. So Trump's 2020 amounted to also...9-months.

Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 07, 2021, 10:45:44 AM

Let's not minimize under who's watch the vaccination came to be.
The other can't spell vaccine if you spotted him the 3 vowels, hey?

4. Development of the vaccine that was used to fight COVID started in 2003 under George Bush. So technically, the majority of the vaccine development occurred under Obama. I still give Bush the most credit though, because it was his realization that we needed more modern approaches to vaccine development that created the pipeline, techniques, and technology that allowed this vaccine to come to fruition.

All Trump's administration did to foster its development, was guarantee purchase of x-number of doses, so that big Pharma could afford to run all the phases of testing concurrently, and in conjunction with production. That was important, but it had nothing to do with its development at all.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on October 07, 2021, 12:32:34 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on October 07, 2021, 11:17:52 AM

You mean the lifelong Democrat elitist who was born in Queens with a silver spoon in his mouth, but still manage to be the biggest failson in history until his own son came along?

That guy?

The truth shall set you free unless you’re the mark

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on October 07, 2021, 01:02:51 PM

Quote from: forgetful on October 07, 2021, 11:26:54 AM

All Trump's administration did to foster its development, was guarantee purchase of x-number of doses, so that big Pharma could afford to run all the phases of testing concurrently, and in conjunction with production. That was important, but it had nothing to do with its development at all.

The development of a vaccine aligned with Drumpf's self-interest; he thought he'd be a hero and win reelection. After he lost, he didn't give a rat's ass about production or distribution of the cure.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on October 07, 2021, 03:02:49 PM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 07, 2021, 11:15:27 AM

Yes, he voted for a grifter and criminal

And continues to support those that seek to overthrow our government. He must be proud.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on October 07, 2021, 04:50:19 PM

Awesome fresh talking points everyone!  :D

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on October 07, 2021, 06:58:29 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on October 07, 2021, 04:50:19 PM

Awesome fresh talking points everyone!  :D

+1

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on October 07, 2021, 07:00:39 PM

Quote from: Jockey on October 07, 2021, 03:02:49 PM

And continues to support those that seek to overthrow our government. He must be proud.

C'mon man, I can guarantee President Trump does not support FD Joe, aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on October 07, 2021, 07:15:39 PM

Quote from: Jockey on October 07, 2021, 03:02:49 PM

And continues to support those that seek to overthrow our government. He must be proud.

It’s sad.  They’ve been so brainwashed by this conman, they can’t see through the grift.  I’d feel bad for them but I’m just sad for them instead.  It’s obvious they’ve been so corrupted by years of Fox News and grifters like Rush Limbaugh, they’ve lost their way.  You’re not getting them back without help from their families and friends and even then, it’s probably a long shot.  There’s little doubt 45 was the worst thing to happen to America in quite some time.  He was a natural reaction to having a black president, however, and shows how deep seated systemic racism is in this country.  A century from now, this period in American history will be looked back on in shame as people wonder a man like 45 could fool so many. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on October 07, 2021, 07:50:22 PM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 07, 2021, 07:15:39 PM

It’s sad.  They’ve been so brainwashed by this conman, they can’t see through the grift.  I’d feel bad for them but I’m just sad for them instead.  It’s obvious they’ve been so corrupted by years of Fox News and grifters like Rush Limbaugh, they’ve lost their way.  You’re not getting them back without help from their families and friends and even then, it’s probably a long shot.  There’s little doubt 45 was the worst thing to happen to America in quite some time.  He was a natural reaction to having a black president, however, and shows how deep seated systemic racism is in this country.  A century from now, this period in American history will be looked back on in shame as people wonder a man like 45 could fool so many. 

unnatural carnal knowledgeing dentists.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on October 07, 2021, 08:04:52 PM

Quote from: Retire0 on October 07, 2021, 07:50:22 PM

unnatural carnal knowledgeing dentists.

I guess we're all anti-dentites.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on October 07, 2021, 08:08:27 PM

A-huh, hate has no home here. Especially if your opinion differs from the woke folk, aina?


#bullchittin'hypocrits

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on October 07, 2021, 09:30:03 PM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 07, 2021, 07:15:39 PM

It’s sad.  They’ve been so brainwashed by this conman, they can’t see through the grift.  I’d feel bad for them but I’m just sad for them instead.  It’s obvious they’ve been so corrupted by years of Fox News and grifters like Rush Limbaugh, they’ve lost their way.  You’re not getting them back without help from their families and friends and even then, it’s probably a long shot.  There’s little doubt 45 was the worst thing to happen to America in quite some time.  He was a natural reaction to having a black president, however, and shows how deep seated systemic racism is in this country.  A century from now, this period in American history will be looked back on in shame as people wonder a man like 45 could fool so many.

Trump has been gone (something I’m not sorry about) for 9 months. In that time, the current senile incompetent in chief has seen his approval rating fall from 57% to 38%. Independents are abandoning him in droves. It has nothing to do with Trump, Fox News or racism. It has to do with the fact that the guy’s obviously not all there. The only folks who can’t see the obvious - that this guy is unfit and dangerous - are as brainwashed as any Trumpster ever could be. But stay focused on the former President - that will surely help us out of the messes the current one is presiding over.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on October 07, 2021, 09:42:30 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 07, 2021, 09:30:03 PM

Trump has been gone (something I’m not sorry about) for 9 months. In that time, the current senile incompetent in chief has seen his approval rating fall from 57% to 38%. Independents are abandoning him in droves. It has nothing to do with Trump, Fox News or racism. It has to do with the fact that the guy’s obviously not all there. The only folks who can’t see the obvious - that this guy is unfit and dangerous - are as brainwashed as any Trumpster ever could be. But stay focused on the former President - that will surely help us out of the messes the current one is presiding over.

Nm / enough

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on October 07, 2021, 09:59:45 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 07, 2021, 09:30:03 PM

Trump has been gone (something I’m not sorry about) for 9 months. In that time, the current senile incompetent in chief has seen his approval rating fall from 57% to 38%. Independents are abandoning him in droves. It has nothing to do with Trump, Fox News or racism. It has to do with the fact that the guy’s obviously not all there. The only folks who can’t see the obvious - that this guy is unfit and dangerous - are as brainwashed as any Trumpster ever could be. But stay focused on the former President - that will surely help us out of the messes the current one is presiding over.

Awesome fresh talking points.
+1

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on October 07, 2021, 10:37:06 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 07, 2021, 09:30:03 PM

Trump has been gone (something I’m not sorry about) for 9 months.  In that time, the current senile incompetent in chief has seen his approval rating fall from 57% to 38%.  Independents are abandoning him in droves.  It has nothing to do with Trump, Fox News or racism.  It has to do with the fact that the guy’s obviously not all there.  The only folks who can’t see the obvious - that this guy is unfit and dangerous - are as brainwashed as any Trumpster ever could be.  But stay focused on the former President - that will surely help us out of the messes the current one is presiding over.

Yes

Yes, though wildly disrespectful of someone who's not all that older than you based on your posts

Source?

Yes

conjecture, I agree though odd never mentioned with previous president

Lmao ok well if we try to overturn democracy you'll be right but till then you're making a wild false comparison that there's actually evidence to show just how terrible of a comparison it is unlike previous times.

You're right that the focus on the former president is bad although it's disingenuous to ignore his lingering impact

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 08, 2021, 06:08:41 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 07, 2021, 09:30:03 PM

Trump has been gone (something I’m not sorry about) for 9 months. In that time, the current senile incompetent in chief has seen his approval rating fall from 57% to 38%. Independents are abandoning him in droves. It has nothing to do with Trump, Fox News or racism. It has to do with the fact that the guy’s obviously not all there. The only folks who can’t see the obvious - that this guy is unfit and dangerous - are as brainwashed as any Trumpster ever could be. But stay focused on the former President - that will surely help us out of the messes the current one is presiding over.

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/EthicalMetallicHornet.webp)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on October 08, 2021, 07:11:15 AM

Senility is a terrible thing

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on October 08, 2021, 07:37:13 AM

Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on October 08, 2021, 07:11:15 AM

Senility is a terrible thing

So apparently I am not the only one to notice aiina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on October 08, 2021, 07:40:32 AM

Anyway, great article on bad Covid predictions.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/08/briefing/covid-restrictions-delta-caseload.html?referringSource=articleShare

"In the case of Covid, the fable we tell ourselves is that our day-to-day behavior dictates the course of the pandemic. When we are good — by staying socially distant and wearing our masks — cases are supposed to fall. When we are bad — by eating in restaurants, hanging out with friends and going to a theater or football game — cases are supposed to rise.

The idea is especially alluring to anybody making an effort to be careful and feeling frustrated that so many other Americans seem blasé. After all, the Covid fable does have an some truth to it. Social distancing and masking do reduce the spread of the virus. They just are not as powerful as people often imagine.

The main determinants of Covid’s spread (other than vaccines, which are extremely effective) remain mysterious. Some activities that seem dangerous, like in-person school or crowded outdoor gatherings, may not always be. As unsatisfying as it is, we do not know why cases have recently plunged. The decline is consistent with the fact that Covid surges often last for about two months before receding, but that’s merely a description of the data, not a causal explanation."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on October 08, 2021, 07:41:15 PM

Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on October 08, 2021, 07:11:15 AM

Senility is a terrible thing

Especially in a President.

Whether it’s as bad as being the 2nd biggest a$$hole on Scoop is a matter of opinion.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on October 08, 2021, 08:03:16 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 08, 2021, 07:41:15 PM

Especially in a President.

Whether it’s as bad as being the 2nd biggest a$$hole on Scoop is a matter of opinion.

C’mon. You are clearly #1!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on October 08, 2021, 09:11:29 PM

Lenny, don't leave us hanging. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on October 08, 2021, 09:25:00 PM

Quote from: tower912 on October 08, 2021, 09:11:29 PM

Lenny, don't leave us hanging.

Brother Tower,

As one of the good guys here (and the smart ones, too) I’m guessing you’ve got this one figured.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on October 09, 2021, 12:03:35 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 08, 2021, 09:25:00 PM

Brother Tower,

As one of the good guys here (and the smart ones, too) I’m guessing you’ve got this one figured.

Is it me? Is it me?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on October 09, 2021, 12:11:01 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 08, 2021, 07:41:15 PM

Whether it’s as bad as being the 2nd biggest a$$hole on Scoop is a matter of opinion.

The notion that one or two a$$holes stand out among this sea of a$$holes is absurd.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on October 09, 2021, 12:11:32 PM

Quote from: Jockey on October 09, 2021, 12:03:35 PM

Is it me? Is it me?

Nah. Ole cobweb head tells me to leave him alone then he gets all passive aggressive the last couple of days.

He’s more Chico’s than Chico’s ever was.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on October 09, 2021, 12:11:58 PM

I was rooting for me.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on October 09, 2021, 01:49:17 PM

My Mt Rushmore of scoop as$holes would have at least 25 heads.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on October 09, 2021, 02:49:13 PM

Guys. It’s Lenny. This is an easy one.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on October 09, 2021, 05:14:23 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on October 09, 2021, 12:11:01 PM

The notion that one or two a$$holes stand out among this sea of a$$holes is absurd.

Thank God. If there are that many, I have to at least be on the list.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on October 09, 2021, 05:24:52 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on October 09, 2021, 12:11:32 PM

Nah. Ole cobweb head tells me to leave him alone then he gets all passive aggressive the last couple of days.

He’s more Chico’s than Chico’s ever was.

Sweet, sweet irony.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on October 09, 2021, 05:40:54 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 07, 2021, 09:30:03 PM

Trump has been gone (something I’m not sorry about) for 9 months. In that time, the current senile incompetent in chief has seen his approval rating fall from 57% to 38%. Independents are abandoning him in droves. It has nothing to do with Trump, Fox News or racism. It has to do with the fact that the guy’s obviously not all there. The only folks who can’t see the obvious - that this guy is unfit and dangerous - are as brainwashed as any Trumpster ever could be. But stay focused on the former President - that will surely help us out of the messes the current one is presiding over.

For four years folks like Lenny could have cared less about approval ratings. Suddenly they are the be all and the end all. And they fell because starting in August  lots of "Independents"  figured out that Biden is "obviously not all there."

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on October 09, 2021, 07:15:42 PM

Quote from: Jockey on October 09, 2021, 05:14:23 PM

Thank God. If there are that many, I have to at least be on the list.

Chit, you don't even make honorable mention. Dozens trump your sorry heine, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 09, 2021, 07:42:38 PM

538 runs an composite of all polls, and has Biden with a 44% approval rating.

That sucks … but his predecessor was at 38% at the exact same stage of his term.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/biden-approval-rating/

Not that approval rating means much of anything 9 months into a president’s term.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on October 09, 2021, 08:13:40 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 09, 2021, 07:15:42 PM

Chit, you don't even make honorable mention. Dozens trump your sorry heine, hey?

You're standing up for me? I'll let Rocky and Topper know your account was hacked.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on October 09, 2021, 08:59:49 PM

Quote from: MU82 on October 09, 2021, 07:42:38 PM

538 runs an composite of all polls, and has Biden with a 44% approval rating.

That sucks … but his predecessor was at 38% at the exact same stage of his term.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/biden-approval-rating/

Not that approval rating means much of anything 9 months into a president’s term.

Seems fair.  You can be disappointed/unhappy with Biden's tenure so far and not be a mouth breathing MAGA disciple.  So much whataboutism has seemingly made people criticizing Biden out to all be butthurt whiners unhappy that Trump lost, which is silly.  I voted for him and thought his election was crucial to stemming the Trump tide, but I have very real concerns about his state of mind (shrug)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on October 09, 2021, 09:05:36 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on October 09, 2021, 08:59:49 PM

Seems fair.  You can be disappointed/unhappy with Biden's tenure so far and not be a mouth breathing MAGA disciple.  So much whataboutism has seemingly made people criticizing Biden out to all be butthurt whiners unhappy that Trump lost, which is silly.  I voted for him and thought his election was crucial to stemming the Trump tide, but I have very real concerns about his state of mind (shrug)

I don’t have concerns about his state of mind. I have concerns that “not Trump” is the extent of his administration’s agenda.

That being said, there is a long way to go before 2024. A lot can happen.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 09, 2021, 10:40:15 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on October 09, 2021, 08:59:49 PM

Seems fair.  You can be disappointed/unhappy with Biden's tenure so far and not be a mouth breathing MAGA disciple.  So much whataboutism has seemingly made people criticizing Biden out to all be butthurt whiners unhappy that Trump lost, which is silly.  I voted for him and thought his election was crucial to stemming the Trump tide, but I have very real concerns about his state of mind (shrug)

I have some of the same concerns about Biden, Wags. Of course, I had, and continue to have, very real concerns about his predecessor’s state of mind, too. At least this crazy old guy hasn’t tried to subvert democracy yet.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on October 09, 2021, 11:08:34 PM

Quote from: MU82 on October 09, 2021, 10:40:15 PM

I have some of the same concerns about Biden, Wags. Of course, I had, and continue to have, very real concerns about his predecessor’s state of mind, too. At least this crazy old guy hasn’t tried to subvert democracy yet.

You're doing it again tho ;)  You can have very real or justified concerns about Biden without having to bring it back to Trump.  It doesn't always have to go back to that, both can be an issue and not have to automatically go to "at least its not that".

If Shaka is struggling in Year 2, no identity, no plan, you can have concerns about him but not have to bring it back to Wojo.   The decision to move on from him was still the right one and Shaka's hypothetical failures in the scenario don't have to be placed up against his disastrous forebearer.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 09, 2021, 11:20:37 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on October 09, 2021, 11:08:34 PM

You're doing it again tho ;)  You can have very real or justified concerns about Biden without having to bring it back to Trump.  It doesn't always have to go back to that, both can be an issue and not have to automatically go to "at least its not that".

If Shaka is struggling in Year 2, no identity, no plan, you can have concerns about him but not have to bring it back to Wojo.   The decision to move on from him was still the right one and Shaka's hypothetical failures in the scenario don't have to be placed up against his disastrous forebearer.

Yes, I admit that I am thankful every day about the result of the free and fair 2020 presidential election. 😉

As for anything that goes wrong now, I obviously blame Obama for wearing that beige suit!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on October 10, 2021, 07:30:50 AM

Quote from: MU82 on October 09, 2021, 07:42:38 PM

538 runs an composite of all polls, and has Biden with a 44% approval rating.

I was citing the latest poll from Quinnipiac (tradionally no friend to Republicans) that has Biden at 38%. The biggest difference between the two (pollwise) is that Joe’s fall is from a much higher starting point (close to 60%). People wanted to like Joe, but 9 months in most people realize this is not what they hoped for.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on October 10, 2021, 01:58:43 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 10, 2021, 07:30:50 AM

I was citing the latest poll from Quinnipiac (tradionally no friend to Republicans) that has Biden at 38%. The biggest difference between the two (pollwise) is that Joe’s fall is from a much higher starting point (close to 60%). People wanted to like Joe, but 9 months in most people realize this is not what they hoped for.

Clinton had a 36 percent approval rating early in his first term.
Reagan in his first term was down to 35 percent.
Obama at one point in his first term was at 37 percent.
They all cruised to second terms.

But, yes, by all means continue to tell us how enormously significant this is.

https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/presidential-approval/highslows

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 10, 2021, 03:45:09 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 10, 2021, 07:30:50 AM

I was citing the latest poll from Quinnipiac (tradionally no friend to Republicans) that has Biden at 38%. The biggest difference between the two (pollwise) is that Joe’s fall is from a much higher starting point (close to 60%). People wanted to like Joe, but 9 months in most people realize this is not what they hoped for.

Cite whatever you want, Tony. I'll always go with a composite of numerous polls.

I mean, Rasmussen, which is as far-right as they come, actually has Biden's approval rate improving from 40% a couple weeks ago to 43% today.

Which means nothing. Especially at this stage of a term.

And given what's gone on in political polling the last few years, who knows if it will ever be relevant again.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Mutaman on October 10, 2021, 04:08:57 PM

Never mind.

"Just In: Biden's approval rating has jumped back to 50% as per the newest CBS poll. (Either it was a serious rebound or - as we suspect - the Quinnipiac poll was an outlier.)"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 10, 2021, 04:54:03 PM

Quite the tangent we've got going here.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on October 10, 2021, 08:05:56 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on October 10, 2021, 04:54:03 PM

Quite the tangent we've got going here.

I see you're new herre.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on October 11, 2021, 08:21:48 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on October 10, 2021, 01:58:43 PM

Clinton had a 36 percent approval rating early in his first term.
Reagan in his first term was down to 35 percent.
Obama at one point in his first term was at 37 percent.
They all cruised to second terms.

But, yes, by all means continue to tell us how enormously significant this is.

https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/presidential-approval/highslows

President Biden’s prospect for a second term are (imo) remote for reasons having nothing to do with his current popularity or lack thereof. They had nothing to do with why I posted his numbers. I think his numbers will have a major impact on the midterms, which I think are significant. Using your examples:

Clinton’s party lost 54 House seats and 8 Senate seats in his first midterms.

Obama lost 63 House seats and 8 Senate seats.

Reagan lost 26 House seats and gained 1 Senate seats.

Biden doesn’t have the majorities going in that Clinton or Obama did so the losses will likely be considerably smaller in raw numbers. In addition, the Senate map favors him in this cycle. But if the history you cite repeats itself (low early popularity preceding large midterm losses) the impact on Biden’s administration will be significant.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on October 11, 2021, 09:51:57 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 11, 2021, 08:21:48 PM

President Biden’s prospect for a second term are (imo) remote for reasons having nothing to do with his current popularity or lack thereof. They had nothing to do with why I posted his numbers. I think his numbers will have a major impact on the midterms, which I think are significant. Using your examples:

Clinton’s party lost 54 House seats and 8 Senate seats in his first midterms.

Obama lost 63 House seats and 8 Senate seats.

Reagan lost 26 House seats and gained 1 Senate seats.

Biden doesn’t have the majorities going in that Clinton or Obama did so the losses will likely be considerably smaller in raw numbers. In addition, the Senate map favors him in this cycle. But if the history you cite repeats itself (low early popularity preceding large midterm losses) the impact on Biden’s administration will be significant.

The difference is that no one running as a member of the opposition party had supported a coup attempt.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on October 11, 2021, 10:43:18 PM

Quote from: Jockey on October 11, 2021, 09:51:57 PM

The difference is that no one running as a member of the opposition party had supported a coup attempt.

Jockey

If you really think that the Democrats hold onto the House in 2022 I’m available for a wager.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 11, 2021, 11:26:28 PM

Lenny ...

Your history about midterms is correct ... except you forgot to mention how Trump was routed in 2018, too.

In a two-year span, he did an amazing job of losing the House, the Senate and the White House. Impressive ... though all rigged, of course!

As for your 2022 prediction, I totally agree. Dems will almost surely lose the House.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on October 12, 2021, 07:40:37 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 11, 2021, 08:21:48 PM

President Biden’s prospect for a second term are (imo) remote for reasons having nothing to do with his current popularity or lack thereof. They had nothing to do with why I posted his numbers. I think his numbers will have a major impact on the midterms, which I think are significant. Using your examples:

Clinton’s party lost 54 House seats and 8 Senate seats in his first midterms.

Obama lost 63 House seats and 8 Senate seats.

Reagan lost 26 House seats and gained 1 Senate seats.

Biden doesn’t have the majorities going in that Clinton or Obama did so the losses will likely be considerably smaller in raw numbers. In addition, the Senate map favors him in this cycle. But if the history you cite repeats itself (low early popularity preceding large midterm losses) the impact on Biden’s administration will be significant.

This reeks of goalpost shifting, Lenny.
Yes, it's true that the Dems almost certainly will lose House seats in the midterms. Which is what has happened in 11 of the last 12 presidential first terms. It's hardly evidence of the narrative you were spinning earlier about Biden's first-term poll numbers being uniquely disastrous. They are, in fact, entirely common, as would be the loss of House seats.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on October 12, 2021, 08:29:50 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on October 12, 2021, 07:40:37 AM

This reeks of goalpost shifting, Lenny.
Yes, it's true that the Dems almost certainly will lose House seats in the midterms. Which is what has happened in 11 of the last 12 presidential first terms. It's hardly evidence of the narrative you were spinning earlier about Biden's first-term poll numbers being uniquely disastrous. They are, in fact, entirely common, as would be the loss of House seats.

Not trying to goalpost shift at all. You pointed out that 2 Democratic presidents were extremely unpopular early in their first terms but said it proved meaningless (because they won re-election 4 years later). IMO your point is meaningless because there is no chance Joe Biden will be running in 2024. I say it was meaningful, as Obama and Clinton rank #1 and #2 for the most seats lost in the midterms by a newly elected President in at least 80 years. Trump (also very unpopular at this point) ranks #4, an unelected President (Gerald Ford) ranks #3. So the correlation between early unpopularity and a major routing in the midterms seems pretty clear. Recent gerrymandering (more “safe seats” on both sides)and the narrow edge the Dems enjoy right now will likely temper the rout, but if the past is prologue there will be one - something I don’t see predicted by 538 or anyone else at this point.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: SERocks on October 12, 2021, 09:33:57 AM

https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/october-11-2021

It will be interesting indeed....

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 12, 2021, 10:35:33 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 12, 2021, 08:29:50 AM

xsomething I don’t see predicted by 538 or anyone else at this point.

Lots of pundits are predicting the GOP will decisively recapture the House in 2022.

Including lots of liberal pundits, which is why many are so desperate to get some parts of their agenda passed while they have the chance.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on October 12, 2021, 11:18:13 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 12, 2021, 08:29:50 AM

Not trying to goalpost shift at all. You pointed out that 2 Democratic presidents were extremely unpopular early in their first terms but said it proved meaningless (because they won re-election 4 years later). IMO your point is meaningless because there is no chance Joe Biden will be running in 2024. I say it was meaningful, as Obama and Clinton rank #1 and #2 for the most seats lost in the midterms by a newly elected President in at least 80 years. Trump (also very unpopular at this point) ranks #4, an unelected President (Gerald Ford) ranks #3. So the correlation between early unpopularity and a major routing in the midterms seems pretty clear. Recent gerrymandering (more “safe seats” on both sides)and the narrow edge the Dems enjoy right now will likely temper the rout, but if the past is prologue there will be one - something I don’t see predicted by 538 or anyone else at this point.

I'm not predicting anything one way or the other, as it is way to early. But simply looking at numbers like that, and not the larger picture is kind of pointless.

A good chunk of Biden's low approval is actually progressives thinking he is too moderate. They aren't going to support a conservative. What it could lead to though is actually a lot of liberal members of congress being voted out for ones that are more aggressively progressive.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on October 12, 2021, 11:32:13 AM

Quote from: forgetful on October 12, 2021, 11:18:13 AM

I'm not predicting anything one way or the other, as it is way to early. But simply looking at numbers like that, and not the larger picture is kind of pointless.

A good chunk of Biden's low approval is actually progressives thinking he is too moderate. They aren't going to support a conservative. What it could lead to though is actually a lot of liberal members of congress being voted out for ones that are more aggressively progressive.

Or those progressives may not show up to the polls at all after feeling like their votes/voices were betrayed

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on October 12, 2021, 11:48:23 AM

The ‘progressives’ at least until recently haven’t been good about showing up for local and mid-term elections. Plus they can be idiots - they have tried to argue that Durbin and Mike Quigley, my own rep, need to be primaried from the left for not being progressive enough. Maddening as Manchin is, they also have not understood that he can get elected in West Virginia , and that at least matters for things like controlling committees and judicial nominations - I had one tell me in 2017 that if we needed to wait ten years to educate W Virginia voters, then he was okay with that- my response was that, we didn’t have ten years….

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on October 12, 2021, 11:52:20 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on October 12, 2021, 11:32:13 AM

Or those progressives may not show up to the polls at all after feeling like their votes/voices were betrayed

Definitely a possibility. One of the reasons I am avoiding making predictions one way or the other.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 18, 2021, 07:44:49 AM

Colin Powell, dead from COVID-19.

https://apnews.com/article/colin-powell-dead-covid-9c918dc1c137ebf368f2cbb461e4fad4

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 18, 2021, 08:30:07 AM

Quote from: MU82 on October 18, 2021, 07:44:49 AM

Colin Powell, dead from COVID-19.

https://apnews.com/article/colin-powell-dead-covid-9c918dc1c137ebf368f2cbb461e4fad4

After being fully vaccinated

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on October 18, 2021, 08:33:03 AM

https://twitter.com/kayaoakes/status/1449773745774612480?t=GUd_B0xinkpZVY7CfiejhA&s=19

Interesting commentary from the Pope

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on October 18, 2021, 08:46:58 AM

Quote from: pacearrow02 on October 18, 2021, 08:30:07 AM

After being fully vaccinated

He also had multiple myeloma

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 18, 2021, 08:55:11 AM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 18, 2021, 08:46:58 AM

He also had multiple myeloma

Ahhhh

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on October 18, 2021, 08:57:03 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on October 18, 2021, 08:33:03 AM

https://twitter.com/kayaoakes/status/1449773745774612480?t=GUd_B0xinkpZVY7CfiejhA&s=19

Interesting commentary from the Pope

There is a TON of irony in his financial related comments. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on October 18, 2021, 09:01:36 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on October 18, 2021, 08:57:03 AM

There is a TON of irony in his financial related comments.

Oh, do tell ...

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on October 18, 2021, 09:09:42 AM

Quote from: pacearrow02 on October 18, 2021, 08:55:11 AM

Ahhhh

Shocking you didn’t have all the facts. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on October 18, 2021, 09:11:26 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on October 18, 2021, 09:01:36 AM

Oh, do tell ...

The richest organization on the planet with overflowing coffers that has never paid tax, whose head is draped in gold and riches walking around ornate halls and palaces in the Vatican, is telling banks to wipe out debt and financial obligations and for UBI to be widespread?  Its hardly coming from a humble, hard scrabble monk

If Bill Gates was saying it, people would come for his neck.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 18, 2021, 09:20:07 AM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 18, 2021, 09:09:42 AM

Shocking you didn’t have all the facts.

Hey numb nuts….I knew that.  I just find it interesting that for 20 months when it was pointed out that 80%+ of the deaths attributed to Covid where in folks that were old or with multiple comorbidities it was poo poo’d cause that wasn’t justification for someone having to die even a day earlier as a result of Covid then they would have otherwise with their already serious health complications. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on October 18, 2021, 09:21:58 AM

Quote from: pacearrow02 on October 18, 2021, 09:20:07 AM

Hey numb nuts….I knew that.  I just find it interesting that for 20 months when it was pointed out that 80%+ of the deaths attributed to Covid where in folks that were old or with multiple comorbidities it was poo poo’d cause that wasn’t justification for someone having to die even a day earlier as a result of Covid then they would have otherwise with their already serious health complications.

His family announced he died from complications of Covid-19.  Take it up with them. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on October 18, 2021, 09:26:43 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on October 18, 2021, 09:11:26 AM

The richest organization on the planet with overflowing coffers that has never paid tax, whose head is draped in gold and riches walking around ornate halls and palaces in the Vatican, is telling banks to wipe out debt and financial obligations and for UBI to be widespread?  Its hardly coming from a humble, hard scrabble monk

If Bill Gates was saying it, people would come for his neck.

You think the Catholic church is the richest organization in the world?

Anyhow, it's a tired and weak argument (not to mention a deflection from the actual point) to suggest that because the Catholic church has wealth - the vast majority of which is real estate and art - it has no moral authority when it comes issues of poverty.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on October 18, 2021, 09:46:39 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on October 18, 2021, 09:26:43 AM

You think the Catholic church is the richest organization in the world?

Anyhow, it's a tired and weak argument (not to mention a deflection from the actual point) to suggest that because the Catholic church has wealth - the vast majority of which is real estate and art - it has no moral authority when it comes issues of poverty.

Organization?  Yes.  I didn't say company, but organization, yes I do.

I wasn't deflecting from anything?  I just made a comment on the irony of it, cause otherwise its "interesting,  I don't agree with all of it but thats certainly direct wording". 

And you're adding a bunch of extra meaning that I never said nor implied.  Thats also why I mentioned Gates, who has a charitable foundation with a $50B endowment, aka someone in a position of immense wealth and luxury who also has a profound financial/charitable vehicle for good 

You can certainly disagree or have a different take without having to label something a tired and weak deflection.  Its doesn't always have to be about headhunting, FFS

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 18, 2021, 10:02:50 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on October 18, 2021, 09:46:39 AM

Organization?  Yes.  I didn't say company, but organization, yes I do.

I wasn't deflecting from anything?  I just made a comment on the irony of it, cause otherwise its "interesting,  I don't agree with all of it but thats certainly direct wording". 

And you're adding a bunch of extra meaning that I never said nor implied.  Thats also why I mentioned Gates, who has a charitable foundation with a $50B endowment, aka someone in a position of immense wealth and luxury who also has a profound financial/charitable vehicle for good 

You can certainly disagree or have a different take without having to label something a tired and weak deflection.  Its doesn't always have to be about headhunting, FFS

If there is a silver lining to the mess that the Covid board has been (guilty for helping steer it into the gutter) it is that JWags has emerged as the only trusted voice of reason.  Any chance you’d be willing to take over the postgame top 10 list from tower, it was something I used to look forward too but after seeing the way he behaves over here it’s now something I can’t trust or stomach anymore. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on October 18, 2021, 10:04:30 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on October 18, 2021, 09:46:39 AM

Organization?  Yes.  I didn't say company, but organization, yes I do.

I wasn't deflecting from anything?  I just made a comment on the irony of it, cause otherwise its "interesting,  I don't agree with all of it but thats certainly direct wording". 

And you're adding a bunch of extra meaning that I never said nor implied.  Thats also why I mentioned Gates, who has a charitable foundation with a $50B endowment, aka someone in a position of immense wealth and luxury who also has a profound financial/charitable vehicle for good 

You can certainly disagree or have a different take without having to label something a tired and weak deflection.  Its doesn't always have to be about headhunting, FFS

Companies are organizations.

And with all due respect, you seem to be backpedaling here. Your comment about the "irony" of the remarks, and follow up about "overflowing coffers" and never paying a tax (totally false, by the way) and "draped in gold" was an obvious attempt to paint Francis as a hypocrite.
It seemed to me that you were raising these points to deflect from what the pope was saying.
But maybe I'm wrong. Please explain to me what the value of the Vatican's art collection and its tax status has to do with the pope's remarks?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on October 18, 2021, 03:01:57 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on October 18, 2021, 09:11:26 AM

The richest organization on the planet with overflowing coffers that has never paid tax, whose head is draped in gold and riches walking around ornate halls and palaces in the Vatican, is telling banks to wipe out debt and financial obligations and for UBI to be widespread?  Its hardly coming from a humble, hard scrabble monk

If Bill Gates was saying it, people would come for his neck.

Isn't Francis pretty close to a humble, hard Scrabble monk though?

Re: Gates...his organization does some very good things. But I think there's also plenty that he/his organization does with very questionable motives

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 18, 2021, 03:07:01 PM

Quote from: pacearrow02 on October 18, 2021, 10:02:50 AM

If there is a silver lining to the mess that the Covid board has been (guilty for helping steer it into the gutter) it is that JWags has emerged as the only trusted voice of reason.  Any chance you’d be willing to take over the postgame top 10 list from tower, it was something I used to look forward too but after seeing the way he behaves over here it’s now something I can’t trust or stomach anymore.

How does tower "behave"?

How do you "behave"?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on October 18, 2021, 03:11:35 PM

Quote from: pacearrow02 on October 18, 2021, 10:02:50 AM

If there is a silver lining to the mess that the Covid board has been (guilty for helping steer it into the gutter) it is that JWags has emerged as the only trusted voice of reason.  Any chance you’d be willing to take over the postgame top 10 list from tower, it was something I used to look forward too but after seeing the way he behaves over here it’s now something I can’t trust or stomach anymore.

Why don’t you leave so you’re not burdened by reading his posts?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 18, 2021, 03:23:33 PM

Quote from: Jockey on October 18, 2021, 03:11:35 PM

Why don’t you leave so you’re not burdened by reading his posts?

And not have access to your fountain of knowledge displayed on a daily basis?  Never.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 18, 2021, 03:26:14 PM

Quote from: MU82 on October 18, 2021, 03:07:01 PM

How does tower "behave"?

How do you "behave"?

Tower: like a fool
Me: like a fool (as stated in the original post)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on October 18, 2021, 03:43:56 PM

Quote from: MU82 on October 18, 2021, 03:07:01 PM

How does tower "behave"?

How do you "behave"?

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha.       My day is complete.    Someone I have on ignore doesn't like me.      The sun is shining, the birds are singing.     

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on October 18, 2021, 04:49:58 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on October 18, 2021, 10:04:30 AM

Companies are organizations.

And with all due respect, you seem to be backpedaling here. Your comment about the "irony" of the remarks, and follow up about "overflowing coffers" and never paying a tax (totally false, by the way) and "draped in gold" was an obvious attempt to paint Francis as a hypocrite.
It seemed to me that you were raising these points to deflect from what the pope was saying.
But maybe I'm wrong. Please explain to me what the value of the Vatican's art collection and its tax status has to do with the pope's remarks?

I have no interest in backpedaling, if anything I'm guilty of poor phrasing, which wouldn't be the first nor the last time.

Francis isn't a hypocrite, he's been pretty consistent in many of his stances and lifestyle to match his viewpoints if I recall. 

The church's wealth, however you want to examine it, does not invalidate his opinion.  Nor does wealth being tied up in real estate and art make it any less prodigious.  Its not like the Catholic Church is cash poor outside of those holdings.

I just found irony in the head of a very wealthy organization pushing for some of these financial measures.  And then pushing for more influence for the United Nations, as if there hasn't been substantial financial issues within those ranks as well.

I wasn't deflecting anything.  I already said the directness and candor he spoke with was interesting.  I totally agree with parts of what he said, I don't with others.  I'm not a Catholic so I don't give any particularly substantial weight to his missives, but I don't have to discredit him to find some of his statements ironic or curious or offbase.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 18, 2021, 04:59:38 PM

Quote from: pacearrow02 on October 18, 2021, 03:26:14 PM

Tower: like a fool
Me: like a fool (as stated in the original post)

Well, the second half of that is right.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 18, 2021, 06:49:01 PM

Quote from: tower912 on October 18, 2021, 03:43:56 PM

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha.       My day is complete.    Someone I have on ignore doesn't like me.      The sun is shining, the birds are singing.     

Someone who I have literally 0 respect for as a poster and from what I can tell by your words here as a human, has blocked me.  How will I ever recover.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on October 18, 2021, 06:51:51 PM

Quote from: MU82 on October 18, 2021, 07:44:49 AM

Colin Powell, dead from COVID-19.

https://apnews.com/article/colin-powell-dead-covid-9c918dc1c137ebf368f2cbb461e4fad4

Let his death inspire a rush for booster shots.   Preexisting conditions still leave you vulnerable.   Science.    Facts.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on October 18, 2021, 07:03:11 PM

Evander Kane suspended 21 games by the NHL for using a fake vaccination card.    Should give Lazar a call.   He has some time now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on October 19, 2021, 06:47:00 AM

Co-worker in the hospital after contracting COVID from an unvaccinated patient.   Going to get my booster this week.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on October 19, 2021, 08:01:41 AM

Fahrenheit, ewe've got da best immunity havin' had covid. Y boost, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on October 19, 2021, 08:12:08 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 19, 2021, 08:01:41 AM

Fahrenheit, ewe've got da best immunity havin' had covid. Y boost, hey?

Is this tongue in cheek?

If not: Immunity from infection is variable in strength and duration. Immunity from infection+vaccine is significantly stronger than immunity from either on its own (which is currently being studied because it's wild). With the extremely limited downside of the vaccine, there is nothing but opportunity from getting a vaccine booster on top of the vaccine + infection. Especially if you're in a profession where you and your community at risk if you fall ill.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on October 19, 2021, 08:23:37 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 19, 2021, 08:01:41 AM

Fahrenheit, ewe've got da best immunity havin' had covid. Y boost, hey?

You're joking, right?   If not, because immunity wanes and I am still elbows deep in COVID patients.   As evidenced by my vaccinated colleague catching it from a patient and now being hospitalized.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on October 19, 2021, 08:28:30 AM

Speakin' as a non-doktor, watt da fook do eye no, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on October 19, 2021, 08:32:54 AM

Follow the science.   All of the data indicate that immunity diminishes over time.   All of the vaccine manufacturers are advocating boosters.

I brushed, flossed and rinsed last night.   Should I again tonight?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on October 19, 2021, 08:35:12 AM

FFS, we get flu shots every year.  Why not get a Covid booster?  Let's not overthink this people.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on October 19, 2021, 08:46:13 AM

Precisely.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on October 19, 2021, 08:52:26 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 19, 2021, 08:28:30 AM

Speakin' as a non-doktor, watt da fook do eye no, hey?

Wait, so you make a claim. Then backtrack by saying you're not an expert?

So are you misinformed or disingenuous?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on October 19, 2021, 08:54:51 AM

Don't ya reed dis board? Just pokin' da pigs, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on October 19, 2021, 08:58:52 AM

I think there will be annual boosters for a few years.   Adjusted for the dominant strain, like the flu shot.   
I've had the flu without a vaccine.   I've had COVID.   COVID was worse for me.   Give me the vaccine for both.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on October 19, 2021, 09:12:30 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 19, 2021, 08:54:51 AM

Don't ya reed dis board? Just pokin' da pigs, hey?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on October 19, 2021, 09:31:44 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 19, 2021, 08:54:51 AM

Don't ya reed dis board? Just pokin' da pigs, hey?

Disingenuous. Thanks for clarifying

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 19, 2021, 10:05:25 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on October 19, 2021, 08:35:12 AM

FFS, we get flu shots every year.  Why not get a Covid booster?  Let's not overthink this people.

You say we as if it’s 100% of the population getting the influenza shot every year….it’s not mandated nor required by schools/most employers so I agree in the sense that Covid shot should be treated similar.  Those that want it, great get it.  You don’t want it, that’s fine too.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on October 19, 2021, 10:15:44 AM

Quote from: pacearrow02 on October 19, 2021, 10:05:25 AM

You say we as if it’s 100% of the population getting the influenza shot every year….it’s not mandated nor required by schools/most employers so I agree in the sense that Covid shot should be treated similar.  Those that want it, great get it.  You don’t want it, that’s fine too.

It should be.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on October 19, 2021, 10:30:20 AM

I didn't realize mental illness was so rampant amongst old, white dentists.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on October 19, 2021, 11:16:14 AM

Quote from: pacearrow02 on October 19, 2021, 10:05:25 AM

You say we as if it’s 100% of the population getting the influenza shot every year….it’s not mandated nor required by schools/most employers so I agree in the sense that Covid shot should be treated similar.  Those that want it, great get it.  You don’t want it, that’s fine too.

Yup. The covid booster (science still iffy) or a yearly covid shot could be optional.

But initial vaccine during a pandemic? Mandatory (or frequent testing)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 19, 2021, 02:23:39 PM

https://mobile.twitter.com/baseballcrank/status/1450473726441574400

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: naginiF on October 19, 2021, 02:41:00 PM

Quote from: pacearrow02 on October 19, 2021, 02:23:39 PM

https://mobile.twitter.com/baseballcrank/status/1450473726441574400

To think that those two things are mutually exclusive is to admit that you are only capable of looking at this issue with binary thinking. And before you "hey, I just posted it".......by posting it you agree with it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on October 19, 2021, 02:51:30 PM

Quote from: pacearrow02 on October 19, 2021, 02:23:39 PM

https://mobile.twitter.com/baseballcrank/status/1450473726441574400

That's not how seasonality works.
And if it were, why was the surge so much worse in Florida than its immediate neighbors?
But by all means, keep grasping at straws.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on October 19, 2021, 04:29:09 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on October 19, 2021, 08:35:12 AM

FFS, we get flu shots every year.  Why not get a Covid booster?  Let's not overthink this people.

free will

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on October 19, 2021, 04:39:56 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on October 19, 2021, 04:29:09 PM

free will

Don't be so daffy. We surrender our free will every day, many times a day, for the common good.
As a dentist, you willingly acquiesce to state, federal and professional regulations and rules of conduct that control virtually every aspect of your practice.
But yeah, refusing a vaccine is a stand against government tyranny.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on October 19, 2021, 05:08:46 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on October 19, 2021, 04:29:09 PM

free will

10 of 10

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on October 19, 2021, 05:09:38 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on October 19, 2021, 04:29:09 PM

free will

Just like Kaepernick

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on October 19, 2021, 05:22:44 PM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 19, 2021, 05:08:46 PM

10 of 10

Shut it down. Nothing will top this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on October 19, 2021, 05:32:41 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on October 19, 2021, 04:29:09 PM

free will

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/YCGpnd5bXDY/maxresdefault.jpg)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on October 19, 2021, 05:57:44 PM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 19, 2021, 05:08:46 PM

10 of 10

Perfect!

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on October 19, 2021, 07:43:11 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on October 19, 2021, 04:29:09 PM

free will

Not getting a booster, and making yourself more susceptible to a deadly disease, to own the libs.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on October 19, 2021, 10:26:29 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on October 19, 2021, 07:43:11 PM

Not getting a booster, and making yourself more susceptible to a deadly disease, to own the libs.

Always politics with you guys.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 19, 2021, 11:03:23 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on October 19, 2021, 07:43:11 PM

Not getting a booster, and making yourself more susceptible to a deadly disease, to own the libs.

Wow … you just can’t help yourself, huh?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on October 20, 2021, 03:38:15 AM

Infightin' iz a beautiful thin'. Hate has no home heer, aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: real chili 83 on October 20, 2021, 05:56:22 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on October 19, 2021, 10:30:20 AM

I didn't realize mental illness was so rampant amongst old, white dentists.

You looking in the mirror?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on October 20, 2021, 07:52:30 AM

Quote from: MU82 on October 19, 2021, 11:03:23 PM

Wow … you just can’t help yourself, huh?

Rent free.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on October 22, 2021, 01:34:03 PM

The unvaccinated can expect to be re-infected every 16-17 months, based on a study by Yale.   

https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/577541-unvaccinated-people-should-expect-to-catch-covid


Natural immunity does not last forever.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 22, 2021, 08:57:16 PM

Natural immunity seems to last much longer then vaccine immunity though. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/SteveDeaceShow/status/1451653752889516040

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jesmu84 on October 22, 2021, 09:02:38 PM

Quote from: pacearrow02 on October 22, 2021, 08:57:16 PM

Natural immunity seems to last much longer then vaccine immunity though. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/SteveDeaceShow/status/1451653752889516040

Blaze TV? Guy who wrote a book called "Faucian Bargain"?

I'll reserve judgement until someone with a background in data/statistical analysis shows up

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on October 22, 2021, 09:05:26 PM

Be way better if Blaze TV was just the in house network of Blaze Pizza.  Like gas station TV at the pump

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on October 22, 2021, 09:09:42 PM

Quote from: pacearrow02 on October 22, 2021, 08:57:16 PM

Natural immunity seems to last much longer then vaccine immunity though. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/SteveDeaceShow/status/1451653752889516040

That’s not true at all. 

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on October 23, 2021, 06:15:51 AM

Quote from: pacearrow02 on October 22, 2021, 08:57:16 PM

Natural immunity seems to last much longer then vaccine immunity though. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/SteveDeaceShow/status/1451653752889516040

(https://s-i.huffpost.com/gen/825554/images/o-SEA-LION-RESCUE-facebook.jpg)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on October 23, 2021, 10:57:27 AM

Quote from: jesmu84 on October 22, 2021, 09:02:38 PM

Blaze TV? Guy who wrote a book called "Faucian Bargain"?

I'll reserve judgement until someone with a background in data/statistical analysis shows up

Ah jeez!  Glen Beck.  Too much personal experience.  What a know-it-all douchebag.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 26, 2021, 04:36:30 PM

From the NYT:

About 1,500 Americans have died of Covid every day over the past week. For older age groups, the virus remains a leading cause of death. And the main reason is that millions of Americans have chosen to remain unvaccinated. Many of them are older and have underlying medical conditions, leaving them vulnerable to severe versions of Covid.

For older people, the effects of vaccination are profound. In late August, near the height of the Delta wave, 24 out of every 10,000 unvaccinated Americans 65 and above were hospitalized with Covid symptoms, according to the C.D.C. Among fully vaccinated Americans 65 and above, the number was 1.5 per 10,000.

Even so, many Americans are saying no to a shot. Among affluent countries, the U.S. is one of the least vaccinated, trailing Canada, Australia, Japan, South Korea, Britain, France, Germany, Italy and others. Less vaccination means more death:

The low vaccination rate in the U.S. is another consequence of our polarized politics and our high levels of socioeconomic inequality. Only 67 percent of American adults without a four-year college degree have received a shot, compared with 82 percent of college graduates, according to the most recent Kaiser Family Foundation poll. And only 58 percent of self-identified Republicans are vaccinated, compared with 90 percent of Democrats.

It’s a triumph of misinformation. Offered a lifesaving drug to counteract a highly contagious virus, many Americans are instead choosing to take their chances.

Not mentioned was that these Americans also have chosen to take their chances with their own children, older relatives, co-workers and friends.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: jficke13 on October 26, 2021, 08:49:11 PM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 22, 2021, 09:09:42 PM

That’s not true at all.

Whoa, you're telling me Pace is trolling? Surely you jest.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on October 26, 2021, 08:49:56 PM

He is serious.   And don't call him Shirley.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on October 30, 2021, 07:16:26 AM

A good friend of ours, who could best be described as vaccine hesitant, resisted getting the vaccine despite her husband and two adult children getting poked and asking her to do so.  She ended up getting Covid, being sick for two and a half weeks, and going to the hospital simply to get an IV full of nutrients because she had trouble eating.  She mostly suffered from a high fever and extreme exhaustion, but kept her taste and smell and thankfully no respiratory issues.

She has made a full recovery, which we are extremely grateful for.  She didn't seem to pass it along to anyone else.

And she is getting vaccinated when she hits the 90 day mark after her recovery.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on October 30, 2021, 09:21:40 AM

Best wishes for her recovery.
She only has to wait ninety days if she got monoclonal antibodies, though of course she should follow whatever advice her doctor gives her.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on October 30, 2021, 09:54:24 AM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on October 30, 2021, 09:21:40 AM

Best wishes for her recovery.
She only has to wait ninety days if she got monoclonal antibodies, though of course she should follow whatever advice her doctor gives her.

Thank you very much. I will pass this along because I am fairly certain she did not get those.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 30, 2021, 10:24:04 AM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on October 30, 2021, 07:16:26 AM

A good friend of ours, who could best be described as vaccine hesitant, resisted getting the vaccine despite her husband and two adult children getting poked and asking her to do so.  She ended up getting Covid, being sick for two and a half weeks, and going to the hospital simply to get an IV full of nutrients because she had trouble eating.  She mostly suffered from a high fever and extreme exhaustion, but kept her taste and smell and thankfully no respiratory issues.

She has made a full recovery, which we are extremely grateful for.  She didn't seem to pass it along to anyone else.

And she is getting vaccinated when she hits the 90 day mark after her recovery.

Our first employee got it two and a half weeks ago.  She has a lot of the comorbidities that make covid deadly.  Luckily she is fairly young and was able to make a full recovery.  She does have lingering fatigue and taste/smell loss.  Also was unvaccinated.  We tried to convince her without forcing her, but she also believes in astrology, and crystals... so it was pretty much a lost cause from the jump.

Very glad to have her recover.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on October 30, 2021, 06:24:12 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on October 19, 2021, 10:30:20 AM

I didn't realize mental illness was so rampant amongst old, white dentists.

Dude, it takes one to know one, aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on October 30, 2021, 06:33:20 PM

I don't think he is an old white dentist.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on October 30, 2021, 06:42:22 PM

Well, he ain't young, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on October 30, 2021, 06:54:19 PM

Quote from: tower912 on October 30, 2021, 06:33:20 PM

I don't think he is an old white dentist.

the old man doesn't have near the intellect to be a doctor of dental surgery

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU82 on October 30, 2021, 06:59:15 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on October 30, 2021, 07:16:26 AM

A good friend of ours, who could best be described as vaccine hesitant, resisted getting the vaccine despite her husband and two adult children getting poked and asking her to do so.  She ended up getting Covid, being sick for two and a half weeks, and going to the hospital simply to get an IV full of nutrients because she had trouble eating.  She mostly suffered from a high fever and extreme exhaustion, but kept her taste and smell and thankfully no respiratory issues.

She has made a full recovery, which we are extremely grateful for.  She didn't seem to pass it along to anyone else.

And she is getting vaccinated when she hits the 90 day mark after her recovery.

Glad she recovered and also glad she decided to get the vaccine.

I’ve read too many heartbreaking stories about vax resisters getting terminally ill and either begging for the vaccine (but it being too late for them) or saying on their death beds that they wish they had gotten it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on October 30, 2021, 06:59:38 PM

Must be nepotism den, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: warriorchick on October 30, 2021, 07:21:38 PM

Quote from: MU82 on October 30, 2021, 06:59:15 PM

Glad she recovered and also glad she decided to get the vaccine.

I’ve read too many heartbreaking stories about vax resisters getting terminally ill and either begging for the vaccine (but it being too late for them) or saying on their death beds that they wish they had gotten it.

I have had two friends of friends who died of Covid that were in their 30's, both unvaccinated.  One of them was a single mom with small children.

If their was any silver lining, I think their deaths inspired a few of their friends to get vaccinated.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on October 30, 2021, 07:22:01 PM

Quote from: MU82 on October 30, 2021, 06:59:15 PM

Glad she recovered and also glad she decided to get the vaccine.

I’ve read too many heartbreaking stories about vax resisters getting terminally ill and either begging for the vaccine (but it being too late for them) or saying on their death beds that they wish they had gotten it.

 
she now has an immunity better than the vaccine-natural immunity.  the vaccine only targets the spike proteins.  natural immunity targets the whole viral particle including the N-protein. 


    "the SARS-CoV-2 virus is more complicated than just a spike protein. There are, in fact, four different proteins that form the overall structure of the virus particle: spike, envelope (E), membrane (M) and nucleocapsid (N). In a natural infection, our immune system recognizes all of these proteins to varying degrees. So how important are immune responses to these different proteins, and does it matter that the first vaccines will not replicate these?"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on October 30, 2021, 07:40:43 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on October 30, 2021, 07:22:01 PM

 
she now has an immunity better than the vaccine-natural immunity.  the vaccine only targets the spike proteins.  natural immunity targets the whole viral particle including the N-protein. 


    "the SARS-CoV-2 virus is more complicated than just a spike protein. There are, in fact, four different proteins that form the overall structure of the virus particle: spike, envelope (E), membrane (M) and nucleocapsid (N). In a natural infection, our immune system recognizes all of these proteins to varying degrees. So how important are immune responses to these different proteins, and does it matter that the first vaccines will not replicate these?"

False. It is amazing how little you know.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 30, 2021, 07:59:14 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on October 30, 2021, 07:22:01 PM

 
she now has an immunity better than the vaccine-natural immunity.  the vaccine only targets the spike proteins.  natural immunity targets the whole viral particle including the N-protein. 


    "the SARS-CoV-2 virus is more complicated than just a spike protein. There are, in fact, four different proteins that form the overall structure of the virus particle: spike, envelope (E), membrane (M) and nucleocapsid (N). In a natural infection, our immune system recognizes all of these proteins to varying degrees. So how important are immune responses to these different proteins, and does it matter that the first vaccines will not replicate these?"

At this point, I feel like you're just doing this on purpose.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on October 30, 2021, 08:00:06 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on October 30, 2021, 07:59:14 PM

At this point, I feel like you're just doing this on purpose.

He’s not that clever.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 30, 2021, 08:01:54 PM

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on October 30, 2021, 08:00:06 PM

He’s not that clever.

Ah, you got me there.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on October 30, 2021, 08:09:40 PM

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/vaccine-protection-covid-19-natural-immunity-cdc-study/

The latest actual science indicates that immunity from the vaccine is far better and longer lasting than natural immunity.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on October 30, 2021, 08:21:54 PM

Quote from: tower912 on October 30, 2021, 08:09:40 PM

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/vaccine-protection-covid-19-natural-immunity-cdc-study/

The latest actual science indicates that immunity from the vaccine is far better and longer lasting than natural immunity.   

Alex Berenson dunked all over this CDC report hours ago.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on October 30, 2021, 08:38:31 PM

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/04/pandemics-wrongest-man/618475/

This guy?    The guy banned from twitter?    Based on his track record, I think his disdain is probably its strongest selling point.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on October 30, 2021, 08:43:58 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on October 30, 2021, 07:40:43 PM

False. It is amazing how little you know.

go fack yourself

https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/covid-vaccines-focus-on-the-spike-protein-but-heres-another-target?amp;amp

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on October 30, 2021, 08:45:29 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on October 30, 2021, 08:43:58 PM

go fack yourself

https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/covid-vaccines-focus-on-the-spike-protein-but-heres-another-target?amp;amp

7 of 10

Expletive and posting an article from January

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on October 30, 2021, 08:48:28 PM

Quote from: tower912 on October 30, 2021, 08:38:31 PM

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/04/pandemics-wrongest-man/618475/

This guy?    The guy banned from twitter?    Based on his track record, I think his disdain is probably its strongest selling point.

banned from twitter?  you're gonna use that as any credibility for what?  twitter, facebook etc are a joke

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: rocket surgeon on October 30, 2021, 08:50:02 PM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 30, 2021, 08:45:29 PM

7 of 10

Expletive and posting an article from January

show me where i'm wrong...on either points

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on October 30, 2021, 08:58:20 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on October 30, 2021, 08:50:02 PM

show me where i'm wrong...on either points

2 of 10, the ellipses help

Tower and numerous others have already shown vaccines are more effective than natural immunity. 

Also, Alex Berenson has been wrong about everything, so I could see why you like him

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on October 30, 2021, 09:00:11 PM

Quote from: rocket ALM surgeon on October 30, 2021, 08:43:58 PM

go fack yourself

https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/covid-vaccines-focus-on-the-spike-protein-but-heres-another-target?amp;amp

This article never states that natural immunity is better than vaccination.

It’s truly amazing how bad you are at this.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: lostpassword on October 30, 2021, 10:20:34 PM

Quote from: tower912 on October 30, 2021, 08:09:40 PM

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/vaccine-protection-covid-19-natural-immunity-cdc-study/

The latest actual science indicates that immunity from the vaccine is far better and longer lasting than natural immunity.   

Even if that wasn't the case, why is this such a topic?  People would rather go get COVID-19 so they have immunity than get a vaccine for immunity?

Every time I hear "natural immunity is better" used by someone thinking it's a flex, I don't get it.  It implies folks are gonna go out and get some of the good natual COVID immunity as a preference.  I'd run to get in line for a vaccine even if it was fractionally as effective as natural immunity.  Only a dumb-dumb would want to protect themselves by preferring getting infected with the very thing they are trying to protect themselves against.

(Aside: I haven't read the CDC study in question so don't have a point-of-view on it)

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on October 30, 2021, 11:00:52 PM

Quote from: lostpassword on October 30, 2021, 10:20:34 PM

Even if that wasn't the case, why is this such a topic?  People would rather go get COVID-19 so they have immunity than get a vaccine for immunity?

Every time I hear "natural immunity is better" used by someone thinking it's a flex, I don't get it.  It implies folks are gonna go out and get some of the good natual COVID immunity as a preference.  I'd run to get in line for a vaccine even if it was fractionally as effective as natural immunity.  Only a dumb-dumb would want to protect themselves by preferring getting infected with the very thing they are trying to protect themselves against.

(Aside: I haven't read the CDC study in question so don't have a point-of-view on it)

Also, it has been shown that both having been infected, and getting vaccinated confers much much higher immunity that either having been infected, or having been vaccinated alone.

So even if you had already gotten COVID, you'd have to be of poor intelligence not to go out and get the vaccine.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 🏀 on October 31, 2021, 08:37:33 AM

Quote from: tower912 on October 30, 2021, 08:38:31 PM

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/04/pandemics-wrongest-man/618475/

This guy?    The guy banned from twitter?    Based on his track record, I think his disdain is probably its strongest selling point.   

Should’ve tealed it.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 31, 2021, 02:18:30 PM

Quote from: lostpassword on October 30, 2021, 10:20:34 PM

Even if that wasn't the case, why is this such a topic?  People would rather go get COVID-19 so they have immunity than get a vaccine for immunity?

Every time I hear "natural immunity is better" used by someone thinking it's a flex, I don't get it.  It implies folks are gonna go out and get some of the good natual COVID immunity as a preference.  I'd run to get in line for a vaccine even if it was fractionally as effective as natural immunity.  Only a dumb-dumb would want to protect themselves by preferring getting infected with the very thing they are trying to protect themselves against.

(Aside: I haven't read the CDC study in question so don't have a point-of-view on it)

A lot of the people advocating for natural immunity think they're a lot healthier than they are.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on October 31, 2021, 02:54:37 PM

Quote from: lostpassword on October 30, 2021, 10:20:34 PM

Every time I hear "natural immunity is better" used by someone thinking it's a flex, I don't get it.  It implies folks are gonna go out and get some of the good natual COVID immunity as a preference. 

What? You don't think a good strategy is to catch COVID in order to protect yourself against ...catching COVID?

Roqqet doesn't have the critical thinking skills to figure this one out. But he heard his go-to health experts, Carlson and Ingraham, say it, so he thinks it is some sort of valid point.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on October 31, 2021, 03:55:31 PM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on October 31, 2021, 02:18:30 PM

A lot of the people advocating for natural immunity think they're a lot healthier than they are.

I think there is an element of that, but also people just getting natural immunity from a mild case and thinking its easy peasy.  So think "why bother with some vaccine when you can get a cold and be fine"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on October 31, 2021, 04:22:57 PM

Quote from: TSmith34 on October 31, 2021, 02:54:37 PM

What? You don't think a good strategy is to catch COVID in order to protect yourself against ...catching COVID?

Roqqet doesn't have the critical thinking skills to figure this one out. But he heard his go-to health experts, Carlson and Ingraham, say it, so he thinks it is some sort of valid point.

You spend more time posting about fox opinion hosts than anyone else on this board.  I think you are a closet fox News fan.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on October 31, 2021, 04:34:11 PM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on October 31, 2021, 04:22:57 PM

You spend more time posting about fox opinion hosts than anyone else on this board.  I think you are a closet fox News fan.

Me and Tuckums are buds

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on October 31, 2021, 07:19:48 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on October 31, 2021, 03:55:31 PM

I think there is an element of that, but also people just getting natural immunity from a mild case and thinking its easy peasy.  So think "why bother with some vaccine when you can get a cold and be fine"

In some cases (rare), a 2nd bout of COVID can be far more severe. Some antibody responses can accidentally enhance the ability of COVID to infect cells.

A similar thing is observed in some vaccines. The original SARS vaccines, which targeted different viral proteins caused this issue, and it is why they use just a fragment of the Spike protein, it was found to not cause these types of issues.

So the vaccine is designed to maximize an immune response, but without risks of antibody-dependent enhancement of viral infection.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on October 31, 2021, 08:17:09 PM

Quote from: forgetful on October 31, 2021, 07:19:48 PM

In some cases (rare), a 2nd bout of COVID can be far more severe. Some antibody responses can accidentally enhance the ability of COVID to infect cells.

A similar thing is observed in some vaccines. The original SARS vaccines, which targeted different viral proteins caused this issue, and it is why they use just a fragment of the Spike protein, it was found to not cause these types of issues.

So the vaccine is designed to maximize an immune response, but without risks of antibody-dependent enhancement of viral infection.

More or less rare than a gnarly breakthrough case?  Not snarky, just genuinely curious.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: forgetful on October 31, 2021, 08:26:21 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on October 31, 2021, 08:17:09 PM

More or less rare than a gnarly breakthrough case?  Not snarky, just genuinely curious.

Honestly, I have no idea.

The best bet though is vaccine, even with infection. Then you have super immunity.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on November 01, 2021, 05:27:26 AM

Psaki's got da chit. Thoughts, aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 01, 2021, 06:21:54 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on November 01, 2021, 05:27:26 AM

Psaki's got da chit. Thoughts, aina?

Hopefully she’s taking horse meds

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on November 01, 2021, 06:26:55 AM

Good thing she is vaccinated.   And was responsible enough to isolate as soon as a member of her household tested positive.
Thoughts and prayers.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on November 01, 2021, 09:08:11 AM

A moment of silence for the 5 million dead world wide.


Do you remember when we were all terrified of HIV?   COVID has killed more Americans since the start of 2020 than AIDS has in 40 years.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on November 01, 2021, 09:14:12 AM

Quote from: tower912 on November 01, 2021, 09:08:11 AM

A moment of silence for the 5 million dead world wide.


Do you remember when we were all terrified of HIV?   COVID has killed more Americans since the start of 2020 than AIDS has in 40 years.

Which is ironic, because the summer of 2020 Trumpies kept asking me why everyone is making a big deal of Coronavirus because AIDS has killed more people.  I had to keep saying, it's only 4 months in, that maybe you want to wait on that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 01, 2021, 09:20:24 AM

Quote from: tower912 on November 01, 2021, 09:08:11 AM

A moment of silence for the 5 million dead world wide.


Do you remember when we were all terrified of HIV?   COVID has killed more Americans since the start of 2020 than AIDS has in 40 years.

And way more than 5 million have died.  The Economist estimates that there have been 16.7 "excess deaths" since the beginning of the pandemic - over three times the number attributed to Covid.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-estimates

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker?gclid=CjwKCAjwoP6LBhBlEiwAvCcthNQeF-88ojbpHMqr7xy-6MdTBtQJGyZ6ehyaZtHUaSfx4XZJ7WCCtBoCbh8QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on November 01, 2021, 09:22:39 AM

I've seen those reports. 


And Jon Bon Jovi has has tested positive.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on November 01, 2021, 10:56:47 AM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on November 01, 2021, 05:27:26 AM

Psaki's got da chit. Thoughts, aina?

She tested negative on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday before testing positive on Sunday. We'll see if it's a false positive. Good on her for disclosing it and going into quarantine.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Galway Eagle on November 01, 2021, 12:58:07 PM

Quote from: tower912 on November 01, 2021, 09:22:39 AM

I've seen those reports. 


And Jon Bon Jovi has has tested positive.   

Is he vaccinated or was he living on a prayer because it's his life?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on November 01, 2021, 02:16:36 PM

Bravo.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on November 01, 2021, 03:40:07 PM

Quote from: Skatastrophy on November 01, 2021, 10:56:47 AM

Good on her for disclosing it and going into quarantine.

Good on her? I’m sorry she has Covid but what were her other options?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Warriors4ever on November 01, 2021, 04:50:54 PM

There were people in the prior administration who weren’t keen on disclosing their diagnosis, as I recollect.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on November 01, 2021, 04:57:27 PM

Quote from: Warriors4ever on November 01, 2021, 04:50:54 PM

There were people in the prior administration who weren’t keen on disclosing their diagnosis, as I recollect.

And some were keen on using insensitive names or mocking members of the press, so we should praise people for being normal for not doing that?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Skatastrophy on November 01, 2021, 05:55:31 PM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on November 01, 2021, 03:40:07 PM

Good on her? I’m sorry she has Covid but what were her other options?

Are you tilted because I said something nice? Weirdo.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on November 01, 2021, 06:52:57 PM

Quote from: JWags85 on November 01, 2021, 04:57:27 PM

And some were keen on using insensitive names or mocking members of the press, so we should praise people for being normal for not doing that?

It's the American way.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Lennys Tap on November 01, 2021, 09:12:30 PM

Quote from: Skatastrophy on November 01, 2021, 05:55:31 PM

Are you tilted because I said something nice? Weirdo.

Tilted? Not a bit. I’m all for “nice”. But praising someone for doing something he or she has no choice over isn’t being nice - it’s being kind of weird, actually.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on November 02, 2021, 07:28:56 AM

The cult of Jen Psaki fans is weird.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on November 02, 2021, 07:55:26 AM

She's a hottie. Gotta have dat, aina?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on November 02, 2021, 07:58:52 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on November 02, 2021, 07:28:56 AM

The cult of Jen Psaki fans is weird.

I know, right?  A press secretary actually doing press briefings seems positively surreal.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on November 02, 2021, 07:59:51 AM

Quote from: tower912 on November 02, 2021, 07:58:52 AM

I know, right?  A press secretary actually doing press briefings seems positively surreal.

AND she correctly follows COVID protocols.

Nothing hotter than that.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on November 02, 2021, 08:18:56 AM

And the whole ginger thing

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on November 02, 2021, 09:29:17 AM

Quote from: Lennys Tap on November 01, 2021, 09:12:30 PM

Tilted? Not a bit. I’m all for “nice”. But praising someone for doing something he or she has no choice over isn’t being nice - it’s being kind of weird, actually.

Maybe "praising" is too strong of a description. Perhaps it should just be "noting" that it is nice to no longer have unnatural carnal knowledgeing pretty boys in positions such as Press Secretary now.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on November 02, 2021, 09:54:01 AM

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on November 02, 2021, 07:28:56 AM

The cult of Jen Psaki fans is weird.

The cult of _________ fans is weird.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: JWags85 on November 02, 2021, 10:07:31 AM

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 02, 2021, 09:54:01 AM

The cult of _________ fans is weird.

Any political fans.  Its always some level of Scorpion and the Frog too.  Social media lets you see it more in real time.

"LOVE (insert politician) and their beliefs/stances/honor"

(politician acts/votes differently on some issue due to strategy/self preservation/personal betterment agenda)

*Cue fanatic feeling betrayed/hurt/shocked...despite it being a politician's nature"

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Hards Alumni on November 02, 2021, 10:12:34 AM

Quote from: JWags85 on November 02, 2021, 10:07:31 AM

Any political fans.  Its always some level of Scorpion and the Frog too.  Social media lets you see it more in real time.

"LOVE (insert politician) and their beliefs/stances/honor"

(politician acts/votes differently on some issue due to strategy/self preservation/personal betterment agenda)

*Cue fanatic feeling betrayed/hurt/shocked...despite it being a politician's nature"

yup

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: 4everwarriors on November 02, 2021, 02:08:36 PM

Sumwon's gotta talk four FD Joe, hey?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 02, 2021, 02:11:43 PM

Quote from: 4everwarriors on November 02, 2021, 02:08:36 PM

Sumwon's gotta talk four FD Joe, hey?

Maybe it can be JFK, Jr.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Pakuni on November 02, 2021, 04:12:14 PM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 02, 2021, 02:11:43 PM

Maybe it can be JFK, Jr.

That's Mr. Vice President JFK Jr. to you, bubs.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 02, 2021, 04:41:11 PM

Quote from: Pakuni on November 02, 2021, 04:12:14 PM

That's Mr. Vice President JFK Jr. to you, bubs.

Assuming Rocket has been in Dallas the last few days

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Jockey on November 02, 2021, 05:48:20 PM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 02, 2021, 04:41:11 PM

Assuming Rocket has been in Dallas the last few days

That's a given.


Well...., we're assuming he can read a map?

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: tower912 on November 02, 2021, 05:51:31 PM

Off to the Rolling Stones concert.  JFK jr is sure to reveal himself there.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on November 02, 2021, 07:35:06 PM

Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 02, 2021, 04:41:11 PM

Assuming Rocket has been in Dallas the last few days

It's a pretty long ride from Arizona to Dallas in a golf cart.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on November 02, 2021, 08:07:49 PM

🧹🧹🧹

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on November 03, 2021, 08:25:03 AM

Quote from: TSmith34 on November 02, 2021, 07:35:06 PM

It's a pretty long ride from Arizona to Dallas in a golf cart.

Stuck on London Bridge.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: pacearrow02 on November 03, 2021, 08:34:52 AM

Quote from: Pakuni on November 02, 2021, 04:12:14 PM

That's Mr. Vice President JFK Jr. to you, bubs.

The whole Qanon movement would be dead if it wasn’t for the attention given to it from the left.  Had no idea what you guys where talking about with the JFK jr stuff/Dallas til I heard it being covered in CNN this morning. 

Important elections last night with lessons to be taken for both political parties and CNN decides to cover the JFK jr coming back from the dead to reappear at the grassy knoll story.  The whole Qanon thing is starting to feel like the racist stunt pulled by the Lincoln Project in VA over the weekend and thankfully the majority of the country are starting to catch on.

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 03, 2021, 08:35:44 AM

Quote from: pacearrow02 on November 03, 2021, 08:34:52 AM

The whole Qanon movement would be dead if it wasn’t for the attention given to it from the left.  Had no idea what you guys where talking about with the JFK jr stuff/Dallas til I heard it being covered in CNN this morning. 

Important elections last night with lessons to be taken for both political parties and CNN decides to cover the JFK jr coming back from the dead to reappear at the grassy knoll story.  The whole Qanon thing is starting to feel like the racist stunt pulled by the Lincoln Project in VA over the weekend and thankfully the majority of the country are starting to catch on.

Mhm

Title: Re: COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")
Post by: mu_hilltopper on November 03, 2021, 08:51:35 AM

Well, we lasted 22 months.  This thread is just as pointless as COVID now.

It's raining out.  There are free umbrellas everywhere.  Have a nice day.