I Hope Buzz leaves MU after this season

[NersEllenson]

No sorry.  If you include only conference games, here are MU's defensive ratings:

EFG%: 15th
Turnover%: 4th
OffensiveReb%: 4th
3pt%: 10th
2pt%: 15th
Overall defensive efficiency: 13th

This is a bad defensive team.  Period.  Outside of the fact that we cause turnovers, this team doesn't do things well on that side of the court.

I think you missed the point - I'm simply stating that our defensive ratings thus far in the Big East have a lot to do with WHO we've played thus far in Big East play.  Playing Top 15 teams, mostly on the road, tends to be more challenging for a team and its defense, than does it playing the bottome tier teams of a conference.  Things should even out, and MU probably finishes around 8th overall in Big East defense - as it starts to play more teams in the lower tier.  Sometimes very good offense beats good defense.  Having said that, yes, this team has had some bad defensive lapses, stretches...but that is part of the game..

[MUBurrow]

MU has had some heartbreaking losses for sure under Buzz - but it gets to the point that everytime MU loses a game - some player sucks, the coaching sucks, JUCO's dont' allow for enough continuity

This is where I think you make your enemies. One of these things is not like the other. You can't equate people that make the first two arguments with those that make the last one.  Once you start doing that, the objectors are right - there really isn't much of a reason to be on these boards.

[cheebs09]

I think it is ridiculous to think that Buzz leaving would be a good idea and improve Marquette. If we had this year last year, everyone would chalk it up to losing the 3 amigos and it was the rebuilding year we all expected. Well we exceeded pre-season expectations and got a 6 seed. We then lose 3 players who played a huge amount of minutes and were all spent four years in the program. This year, the most experienced players we have are in their third year in the program, and two of those players have spent a majority of the time hurt.

 I agree with Elmore that the lack of playing together may cause us problems, but that doesn't have much to do with JUCO's, at least not now. If we didn't recruit JUCO's, we would have a team filled with a bunch of freshman and sophomores who haven't played much together anyways. If he attributed it to JUCO's in a few years then maybe, but due to the empty 2007 class due to the coaching change and other reasons, no matter what background we recruited we wouldn't have any 4 year players in the program.

I have some criticisms of Buzz like anyone, he isn't perfect. I'm a little worried about the defense, but it seems like a lot of the problems, in my eyes at least, is that we get beat off the dribble pretty easily. This makes us always have to scramble to recover and if you are constantly rotating to help it only takes one slow rotation to cause a big breakdown. I don't know if this is a game plan issue because we are pressuring the ball to keep it out of the post or we just aren't great on the ball, but it worries me a bit. Also, I get a little worried about his developing of freshmen. However, I still am hopeful because of our true freshman, none are juniors, so there is still time to develop, and Gardner, Otule and Cadougan seem to be making strides.

Those are my two big worries, but I have a lot of faith in Buzz. I think he will continue to improve and be a very successful coach, hopefully all at MU. The Boeheim's and Calhoun's of the world have had their share of down seasons. I really think this is the year we all expected last year, but last year we had some 4 year seniors to shoulder the load. I think we are a year or two from being very good and hopefully we can continue to string together good recruiting classes to keep it going. Sorry for the novel, but a lot of the bashing on Buzz is sort of frustrating, even if it is from a vocal minority.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I hope he doesn't leave.  I appreciate stability, it's one of the things I liked about a recent coach we had, even if he rubbed people the wrong way.  Going through coaches every 5 years is a bad thing for MU, it's destabilizing.

If he stays a long time, it means he's doing well and that's a good thing for Marquette.  Unfortunately because we decided to go with an inexperienced coach we have growing pains to go through.  That was the frustration in April of 2008 when we were a bonafide top 25 team, guaranteed a 4th straight NCAA appearance and probably could have waited a few extra weeks to go after someone with a few more coaching chops and if that didn't work out, then you still have Buzz to fall back on.  He wasn't going anywhere.  But MU felt acting in 72 hours was going to preserve a recruiting class (which of course it didn't).  Those were the decisions MU made and now we have to hope it was the right course.

He's a nice guy, solid recruiter and has made progress as a coach.  He's in a brutal league and it's unfortunate as hell that someone like him has to literally have trial by fire in a league like this. He has largely done well but certainly some frustrating L's along the way.

I would be thrilled if he's here 9 years and duplicates what the previous regime did.  Absolutely thrilled.  Hope it happens.

[StillAWarrior]

I guess we just have different viewpoints - I never feel extreme views, ingorance nor idiocy have much of a place in society - or on a message board for that matter.

In my opinion, the initial post in this thread exhibits all three.

All teams have idiot fans and Marquette is no exception.  All teams have fans who believe that their program is one recruit away from being a contender and a destination job and Marquette is no exception.  All teams think have fans who think their team is under performing and may never go to the tournament again and Marquette is no exception.  All teams have fans who worship the ground their coach walks on and Marquette is no exception.  All teams have fans who want their coach fired and Marquette is no exception.

[Nukem2]

I hope he doesn't leave.  I appreciate stability, it's one of the things I liked about a recent coach we had, even if he rubbed people the wrong way.  Going through coaches every 5 years is a bad thing for MU, it's destabilizing.

If he stays a long time, it means he's doing well and that's a good thing for Marquette.  Unfortunately because we decided to go with an inexperienced coach we have growing pains to go through.  That was the frustration in April of 2008 when were a bonafide top 25 team, guaranteed a 4th straight NCAA appearance and probably could have waited a few extra weeks to go after someone with a few more coaching chops and if that didn't work out, then you still have Buzz to fall back on.  He wasn't going anywhere.  But MU felt acting in 72 hours was going to preserve a recruiting class (which of course it didn't).  Those were the decisions MU made and now we have to hope it was the right course.

He's a nice guy, solid recruiter and has made progress as a coach.  He's in a brutal league and it's unfortunate as hell that someone like him has to literally have trial by fire in a league like this. He has largely done well but certainly some frustrating L's along the way.

I would be thrilled if he's here 9 years and duplicates what the previous regime did.  Absolutely thrilled.  Hope it happens.

Agree.  Hope he's here for 15 years and add to the MU legacy.   He's only in his 3rd year and is transitioning from the TC departure. 

[Nukem2]

Ding. Ding. Ding... Another thread hijacked into a big hug for TC. What a shock.

Good grief buddy.  What Chicos say would include a final 4 and doing well in the BE.  Get a life.

[ErickJD08]

Ners,

Most people on here think MUScoop is cool.  I am a big MU fan so I come here to catch any breaking news and read some view points.  But I would say that 80% of Alumni have not heard of MUScoop and 90% only read and don't post.  My point is that MUScoop is not indicative of the MU fanbase.

[StillAWarrior]

Ding. Ding. Ding... Another thread hijacked into a big hug for TC. What a shock.

I'll agree that Chico's hijacked the thread into "a big hug for TC" if you'll admit that you re-hijacked it yet another opportunity to bash Chicos.  What a shock.

At least Chico's post was somewhat related to the topic of the thread.  But then again, I guess yours was too since one key point of the thread was to bash Chicos.  Again, shocking.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Give me an example of an under 40 coach at a BCS school that was in his third season that was such a hot property that everyone came calling?

MU plays in a BCS conference but is not a BCS school.  I would say Brad Stevens of Butler would be an example.  Also under 40, also was in his 3rd season, also not at a BCS school.  That's the most recent example...just last year.

[Rudy]

Nice post. I wish you would not have titled it that way because I had some very bad thoughts about you until I read this. You are spot on. These people have no clue how good we have it. No patience and no idea what it takes to get 5 guys used to playing together in the toughest conference in the country.

Smee

[RawdogDX]

1) I guess we just have different viewpoints - I never feel extreme views, ingorance nor idiocy have much of a place in society - or on a message board for that matter.  
I'm not trying to censor opinions here, 2) but simply championing a little bit of perspective.  There is a good degree of sky is falling, knee jerk reaction that takes place here.  MU has had some heartbreaking losses for sure under Buzz - but it gets to the point that 3) everytime MU loses a game - some player sucks, the coaching sucks, JUCO's dont' allow for enough continuity (love that one that is now floating around due to Len Elmore making mention of it), etc.  The bottome line is losing is part of sports - and though it sucks, it isn't reason to 4) go bezerk critical of a coach and team that have largely been very successful/competitive over the last 2.5 years.

1) Well, i know some people who have given their lives to protect people's rights to have extreme views.  
2)  You keep saying that.  You AREN'T.  In no way do you bring perspective.  You inflame the situation.  You just like to have people all riled up because that is what drama queens love.  Someone has a minor issue with buzz and you want to turn it into an attack on MU's hiring choice.  People with perspective can't stand to read your passive aggressive posts.  The, either you want him gone or should never complain argument does no good.  Go check the 'would we be better off without buzz poll' and let me know how the results fit in with your assumption that a good % of posters dislike him.
3) It doesn't 'get to the point' it has always been at that point.  There are 400 people posting after a loss at least one will say that: the refs jobbed us, coach blew it, some player sucks.  Get over it and stop picturing youself in spandex, flying in to save buzz from an angry mob.
4) another passive aggressive jab.  People aren't critical, they are berserk critical.  The most berserk person on this board is you, only you are berserk defencive.

Would you please just ignore willie warrior, nmb and warriors1965 so that you can stop being offended by them.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'll agree that Chico's hijacked the thread into "a big hug for TC" if you'll admit that you re-hijacked it yet another opportunity to bash Chicos.  What a shock.

At least Chico's post was somewhat related to the topic of the thread.  But then again, I guess yours was too since one key point of the thread was to bash Chicos.  Again, shocking.

Whoa whoa...did a post get deleted or something? I see a quote from Lenny but don't see his post.  What just happened?

It wasn't a hijacking for TC either... I disagree with that assessment.  I said the day Buzz was hired that we should be so lucky to have a repeat of the previous 9 year administration when so many were bashing it.  Lenny has consistently said that Buzz is a better coach and better recruiter, one would surmise by that logic that we would thus have better results.  I hope he's right.  I'm not even asking for that, I'm asking for a duplication of the previous run and I'll be thrilled, especially the last 7 years (the first two were rebuilding years). 

Continue to graduate players 90%+, no NCAA probation issues, no police blotter issues, success on the court, high attendance, etc....I'll be thrilled. Hope it happens.  Wasn't meant to be a hijack at all.

[mu_hilltopper]

What the f*** is the point of this thread?  That you can't satisfy all of the people all of the time?

Stop the presses.

[NersEllenson]

1) Well, i know some people who have given their lives to protect people's rights to have extreme views.  
2)  You keep saying that.  You AREN'T.  In no way do you bring perspective.  You inflame the situation.  You just like to have people all riled up because that is what drama queens love.  Someone has a minor issue with buzz and you want to turn it into an attack on MU's hiring choice.  People with perspective can't stand to read your passive aggressive posts.  The, either you want him gone or should never complain argument does no good. Go check the 'would we be better off without buzz poll' and let me know how the results fit in with your assumption that a good % of posters dislike him.3) It doesn't 'get to the point' it has always been at that point.  There are 400 people posting after a loss at least one will say that: the refs jobbed us, coach blew it, some player sucks.  Get over it and stop picturing youself in spandex, flying in to save buzz from an angry mob.
4) another passive aggressive jab.  People aren't critical, they are berserk critical.  The most berserk person on this board is you, only you are berserk defencive.

Would you please just ignore willie warrior, nmb and warriors1965 so that you can stop being offended by them.

The last thing I am is a drama queen - you can call me a fanboy, all day long - but drama queen?  no.  Also, can you show me where I said a "good % of posters dislike him?"  Pretty sure I wrote 10-15 posters..and you keep dropping the 400 people post here number - so that equates to about 3% of posters.

If you have a problem with my posts, and tell me I should leave the board, and am the most beserk person on the board - just put me on Ignore.  Lastly, please tell me how I inflame situations by trying to lend a voice of reason??  Last year oafter the DePaul loss we had people claiming we wouldn't make the NIT - at which time I was critical of the knee jerk/overreaction crowd.  We very well might still make the NCAA this year -and all of the negativity and critical nature of our players and coaches will all be ridiculous.

[Blackhat]

Far as I can tell this thread has been one huge straw man.


Haven't seen one poster call for Buzz to go.

[GOO]

My assumption is that we have about 10 to 12 trolls on this board that pose at MU fans, and try to stir things up.  I wish there was more banning of these types on this board.  Then there are a couple of posters that don't like Buzz, and two that probably like Buzz but feels the need to defend Crean and in so doing seems to need to put Buzz down.

So, only a couple of posters who are MU fans that are really down on Buzz, in my opinion.  For the average fan that isn't a nut job (those are the fans that are not posting on here all the time; and yes I'm calling myself a nut job), Buzz is amazing.  For the fans that really follow the team, most seem to see a unique personality who really gets what Marquette is about off the court.  Which, in my opinion, is one of two keys, the other being to field a quality team.  I think most of us want to win, but not at any cost.  We wouldn't tolerat a Calipari type of coach even if we won it all.  Players have to be students and given the direction to find success after basketball/college.  Buzz gets that, and thus I think he is a good fit.

EVERYONE I talk to at games and that are fans/friends of Marquette really appreciate Buzz and what he has done in such a short time.  Most coaches would would take the Marquette job would just be getting a base of players and their footing about now.  Buzz kept us going with the 3 amigos (and Burke) and did an amazing job last year. To be where we are now and over the last two seasons after loosing our coach, is simply a great job.  And to be looking forward at getting better next year, is simply a nice position to be in.

[mu_hilltopper]

And again, Ners, what is the point?  Did you think you were going to convince those 10-15 posters to be less negative because of your condemnation?  

[SoCalwarrior]

Lastly, please tell me how I inflame situations by trying to lend a voice of reason?? 

The title of this thread for one.

[RawdogDX]

Ignore doesn't work on your thread titles.

If you weren't a drama queen then the title of this thread would have been "why we should be happy with buzz."  It would have been about how tough the BEast is and how he had an empty recruiting class when he came in but was able to successfully scout juco's, land top 100 recruits and compete in every game but 1 in the last 2 years.  How we don't have any violations, our players attend class, play hard, how he's a good role model for what young men should be... Instead it was you whining about a few posters.  
I don't care if you are 'trying to lend a voice of reason'.  It is HOW you are trying is the problem.  We don't need 3 new topics about how everyone needs to calm down after every loss.  

You know how some people will complain about something America does? Then someone else will say "if you don't love it why don't you move somewhere else!"  
That is what you do.  It doesn't add any reason or anything else to the discussion.  Why do that just to target 4-6% of the posters?

*EDIT - Haha, I was so mad that I did math wrong!
I'm glad you are able to recognize knee jerk reactions by others.  Now GET OVER IT and stop making such ridiculous threads with crappy titles.  It doesn't bring perspective or lend reason or do anything other than make this board look insane.

[ATL MU Warrior]

First of all 10-15 of 400 is 4-6%.  Second, Ignore doesn't work on your thread titles.

10/400 = .025 or 2.5%
15/400 = .0375 or 3.75%

Other than that, nice post. 

[NersEllenson]

And again, Ners, what is the point?  Did you think you were going to convince those 10-15 posters to be less negative because of your condemnation?  

The title of this thread for one.

Good point about this thread probably not reversing the opinion of those fringe 10-15 always negative posters.  However, I have a genuine concern about how those 10-15 might influence some fans/posters who might be in the middle or leaning toward being Buzz critical.  Why do I care??  Because I think it would be a HUGE loss to MU to lose Buzz Williams - and if more and more fans become critical of the job Buzz has done - (considering most schools of our level/geography/size would be thrilled with the results thus far) it is easier for Buzz to walk/leave.  Lot easier to have an attitude of "I don't need this crap, when I can go to a school that is easier to recruit to, and located in a more geographically friendly area with regard to weather and recruiting base."

Obviously the title of this thread - knowing that I'm a big Buzz supporter - was written sarcastically.  Didn't think I'd really need to put that in teal.  This post was started in the spirit of lending some perspective - not to be inflammatory.  Thankfully it spawned the Buzz Williams poll which has been overwhelmingly favorable.

[StillAWarrior]

This post was started in the spirit of lending some perspective - not to be inflammatory.  Thankfully it spawned the Buzz Williams poll which has been overwhelmingly favorable.

And the overwhelmingly favorable results of the poll reveal that the vast majority of posters here are doing fine in the perspective department.

[madtownwarrior]

I really like Buzz - recruiting, player development, persona (even being as quirky as he is)  Definitely needs some improvements in his team defense and possibly some execution in key critical game moments (but he is young and hopefully learning).

The problem is this fanbase's expectations.   In the Big East, MU is likely between a 2nd tier (at best) and a 3rd tier (normally) talented team.  This means MU is competing for 5th place each year at best.

First Tier:  Pitt, UConn, Georgetown, Syracuse, Villanova
Second Tier:   West Virginia, Louisville, Note Dame
Third Tier:  Cincinnati, St Johns, Seton Hall, Providence
Fourth Tier:  Rutgers, USF, Depaul

Again - if MU overachieves - 5th looks to be the ceiling, if it underachieves 12 is very possibly.

The conference, while provides huge exposure for MU, is ridiculously talented.

The fanbase expecting MU to be in the top 4 in this conference is unrealistic.
 

[77ncaachamps]

lock it and pop it.

Can't see this thread glow with insights that outshine the dark negativity that will be attracted.