I'm a Bulls Fan but....

[MerrittsMustache]

Jilted Bulls fans are making my head hurt.

YOU HAVE A VERY GOOD TEAM!  GET OVER IT!

LOUD NOISES!

I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE YELLING ABOUT!

[HoopsMalone]

Who are you talking about? 
We aren't allowed to think that Rose is good or that it will be hard to build a team with no money?  There are non-bulls fans who agree with that.

I keep reading posts like this but they never address who is crying.  I think some posters from wisconsin think bulls fans are outraged and are coming on the board and saying that they are without basing it on anything.

Exactly.  The Heat are barely under the cap with these three guys now, and they will all get raises in the coming years.

If the owners get rid of the midlevel exception (which is a possibility) Miami is screwed. 

So the Bulls struck out with Wade and James.  They did get the PF that they preferred and at a much lower cost than Bosh is going to be.  The Bulls have a lot to look forward to.

[Aughnanure]

you're insane if you think any of those guys would sign for the minimum.  there is probably going to be a lockout next year...you think these guys want to walk into that making the minimum with no guaranteed money?  Raja Bell, maybe.  Sure, they can resign Joel Anthony and Haslem because they are their own free agents.  The Heat will be damn good, but they're not even the best team in the east right now.

Disagree, you're insane for thinking they wont have other players and a team. Miller is coming anyways. There are something like 150 free agents or something ridiculous...there just isnt enough money around, many will have to...and whats the best option?

I love how everybody loves to hate on this team right now, Ive never been on that side of fandom....my teams lose or are underdogs mostly.

Im pretty Sure they will be okay with 3 top ten players (Chicago has zero)...still wish they couldve gotten Hayward with the Beasley deal though. Wade should reach out to Matthews for a short term deal. If you win a championship, your next contract is going to be bigger.

[HoopsMalone]

Disagree, you're insane for thinking they wont have other players and a team. Miller is coming anyways. There are something like 150 free agents or something ridiculous...there just isnt enough money around, many will have to...and whats the best option?

I love how everybody loves to hate on this team right now, Ive never been on that side of fandom....my teams lose or are underdogs mostly.

Im pretty Sure they will be okay with 3 top ten players (Chicago has zero)...still wish they couldve gotten Hayward with the Beasley deal though. Wade should reach out to Matthews for a short term deal. If you win a championship, your next contract is going to be bigger.

Like Miller, people will take a $30 million deal.  I am not seeing the good players taking $1/year.  Maybe Shaq, but I don't even know if he would. I was hearing Spurs for him at the midlevel.

$30 is a HUGE difference than $1 million/year.  You can justify that.  It is very hard to justify the $1 million.  When has that ever happened and worked?

This CBA may screw the Heat.  No one wants to do the short deal with the uncertainty of next summer.  The new CBA may get rid of the midlevel as well.

Wes is a restricted FA so Miami does not have the money to get a player like that.

Finally, Bosh is not a top ten player at all.  Miami did sign 2 top 5 players, yes.  That is going to be great for them.   Bosh is not a superstar.

[StillAWarrior]

Im pretty Sure they will be okay with 3 top ten players (Chicago has zero)...

I'm sure you're right...I have no doubt they will be "okay."  But, if you have three top ten players, you damn sure better be better than "okay."  If they don't win a championship -- and I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that they will -- it's a failure.

[jaygall31]

Does anyone else feel that they've been cheering for Dwyane and the heat these last 7 years and now just can't picture doing so? For all the doubters of D wade not being able to win titles (or as many as LBJ), D wade proved them wrong. Win however many titles, LBJ will be the major spotlight.

nope. the heat have been my fav NBA team since 2003 and that'll continue.

[Windyplayer]

Like Miller, people will take a $30 million deal.  I am not seeing the good players taking $1/year.  Maybe Shaq, but I don't even know if he would. I was hearing Spurs for him at the midlevel.

$30 is a HUGE difference than $1 million/year.  You can justify that.  It is very hard to justify the $1 million.  When has that ever happened and worked?

This CBA may screw the Heat.  No one wants to do the short deal with the uncertainty of next summer.  The new CBA may get rid of the midlevel as well.

Wes is a restricted FA so Miami does not have the money to get a player like that.

Finally, Bosh is not a top ten player at all.  Miami did sign 2 top 5 players, yes.  That is going to be great for them.   Bosh is not a superstar.

Agreed, Bosh is not a top ten player. Compare Boozer's numbers with Bosh's, they're comparable with Boozer who sports a higher FG percentage and more playoff experience (and better playoff numbers than regular season). Bosh was the go-to guy on a middling team that took way more shots than he should have, hence the higher point average. Point being, Boozer is not a top ten player, therefore Bosh is not either.  

[brewcity77]

Im pretty Sure they will be okay with 3 top ten players (Chicago has zero)...still wish they couldve gotten Hayward with the Beasley deal though. Wade should reach out to Matthews for a short term deal. If you win a championship, your next contract is going to be bigger.

Not even remotely possible. Matthews is a restricted free agent. Utah can match any offer a team makes to him. Teams with cap room, like Chicago or Portland, could hypothetically put together an offer Utah would refuse to meet. After signing James, Miami can't do that. If Matthews signs with Miami, I guarantee you Utah will match the offer and he'll be back with the Jazz next season.

[DegenerateDish]

I was going to ask too...who is the Heat's 3 top ten players? I know Wade and LBJ are, but I wasn't sure if Mario Chalmers was the third one?

[Aughnanure]

Like Miller, people will take a $30 million deal.  I am not seeing the good players taking $1/year.  Maybe Shaq, but I don't even know if he would. I was hearing Spurs for him at the midlevel.

$30 is a HUGE difference than $1 million/year.  You can justify that.  It is very hard to justify the $1 million.  When has that ever happened and worked?

This CBA may screw the Heat.  No one wants to do the short deal with the uncertainty of next summer.  The new CBA may get rid of the midlevel as well.

Wes is a restricted FA so Miami does not have the money to get a player like that.

Finally, Bosh is not a top ten player at all.  Miami did sign 2 top 5 players, yes.  That is going to be great for them.   Bosh is not a superstar.

Yes, they will offer more than $1 million....they can also back load contracts over a long contract....oh, and there are solid veterans out there who will take a shot at a ring (and there simply isnt enough money out there for everyone to get a lot- over 150 free agents or so!).

The CBA isnt going to screw the Heat by the way (still holding out hope someone wont allow this?)  Haha, David Stern loves this stuff. If the CBA gets rid of the mid-level, are you assuming everything stays the same and there arent other changes?....how did Pau Gasol magically go to the Lakers for literally nothing, or the Boston 3 thing happen? Stern knows this is good for the NBA, polarizing teams keeps conversation going. NBA is ALL about dynasties. And by the way, was Pau Gasol a top ten player before he got to LA and joined with Kobe? I like Boozer, I think Chicago is the most dangerous team to wreck the Heat's hopes (I was scared for Wade if James went to Chicago, that would be a huge challenge). Ill concede you are right about Bosh not being top 10, but he may be soon.

If I had to bet Id still bet Lakers win it all next year against the Heat, but after that its going to be a long run.

Why dont we all wait until they get to roster before we make complete judgments on it?

[willie warrior]

HA... I love it.  I can not recall another time when three rookies drafted outside the top 10 have been considered impact players.

I would not call these draftees chopped liver. Butler was almost BEast Player of Year and will help off the bench. Vanardo was a two time all SEC first teamer, and both he and Pittman are big bodies.
Heat do need a more seasoned big guy off the bench, and a shooter, but there are guys out there. Kyle Korver could be the shooter--could Novak be pulled in?

[Aughnanure]

Not even remotely possible. Matthews is a restricted free agent. Utah can match any offer a team makes to him. Teams with cap room, like Chicago or Portland, could hypothetically put together an offer Utah would refuse to meet. After signing James, Miami can't do that. If Matthews signs with Miami, I guarantee you Utah will match the offer and he'll be back with the Jazz next season.

Yeah, I know that. I know its unlikely...I didnt mean that realistically- just that it would be awesome.

[HoopsMalone]

Yes, they will offer more than $1 million....they can also back load contracts over a long contract....oh, and there are solid veterans out there who will take a shot at a ring (and there simply isnt enough money out there for everyone to get a lot- over 150 free agents or so!).

The CBA isnt going to screw the Heat by the way (still holding out hope someone wont allow this?)  Haha, David Stern loves this stuff. If the CBA gets rid of the mid-level, are you assuming everything stays the same and there arent other changes?....how did Pau Gasol magically go to the Lakers for literally nothing, or the Boston 3 thing happen? Stern knows this is good for the NBA, polarizing teams keeps conversation going. NBA is ALL about dynasties. And by the way, was Pau Gasol a top ten player before he got to LA and joined with Kobe? I like Boozer, I think Chicago is the most dangerous team to wreck the Heat's hopes (I was scared for Wade if James went to Chicago, that would be a huge challenge).

If I had to bet Id still bet Lakers win it all next year against the Heat, but after that its going to be a long run.

Why dont we all wait until they get to roster before we make complete judgments on it?

I don't believe in conspiracy theories about the NBA.  The Grizz were gonna lose Pau (I thought) anyway and they gor Marc Gasol who is not bad.  The T-wolves getting Al Jefferson was as good of a player they were going to get for Garnett and the Sonics got that guy from Georgetown who is a good player for them for Ray Allen.  Those were pretty fair trades to Boston.  Teams maintain good teams because they pay their players to stay.  Boston and LA generate a lot of revenue to do it.

And you cannot give someone $1 million and backload a deal.  You can give players the minimum salary based on how ever many years they are in the league.  No one is going to lock themselves in at the minimum.  The big three are getting raises every year and they alone will basically push the team over the cap.  They can only sign minimum players and pray the mid level stays.

I don't know who all of these free agents are that are going to sign wit the Heat like you suggesting.  There is so much money to be had in Chicago, New Jersey, New York, and LA Clippers.  

Who are these good players?  They must be hiding next to the big men Buzz should be signing every year.

And when has anyone ever signed for the minimum like this and it worked out?

[RawdogDX]

If I had to bet Id still bet Lakers win it all next year against the Heat, but after that its going to be a long run.

Why dont we all wait until they get to roster before we make complete judgments on it?

You realize that you are making a judgement and then telling other people not to make judgements right?   You just said that they won't build a supporting cast that will allow them to beat the lakers this year.

[ErickJD08]

I would not call these draftees chopped liver. Butler was almost BEast Player of Year and will help off the bench. Vanardo was a two time all SEC first teamer, and both he and Pittman are big bodies.
Heat do need a more seasoned big guy off the bench, and a shooter, but there are guys out there. Kyle Korver could be the shooter--could Novak be pulled in?

Korver will be a Bull.  Why?  MONEY!  He doesn't care about a championship.  He doesn't have a shoe deal.  He'll take the money.  

[Aughnanure]

I don't believe in conspiracy theories about the NBA.  The Grizz were gonna lose Pau (I thought) anyway and they gor Marc Gasol who is not bad.  The T-wolves getting Al Jefferson was as good of a player they were going to get for Garnett and the Sonics got that guy from Georgetown who is a good player for them for Ray Allen.  Those were pretty fair trades to Boston.  Teams maintain good teams because they pay their players to stay.  Boston and LA generate a lot of revenue to do it.

And you cannot give someone $1 million and backload a deal.  You can give players the minimum salary based on how ever many years they are in the league.  No one is going to lock themselves in at the minimum.  The big three are getting raises every year and they alone will basically push the team over the cap.  They can only sign minimum players and pray the mid level stays.

I don't know who all of these free agents are that are going to sign wit the Heat like you suggesting.  There is so much money to be had in Chicago, New Jersey, New York, and LA Clippers.  

Who are these good players?  They must be hiding next to the big men Buzz should be signing every year.

And when has anyone ever signed for the minimum like this and it worked out?

Jesus, I never said that! But Miller isn't making 6 million this year! It will backloaded, not talking about the minimum players. We'll see what happens, I have a feeling Pat Riley will do well.

Agree that there is no conspiracy, just pointing out other big moves. But there is no way Stern allows the CBA to hamper the Heat and future dynasties like you are suggesting

[HoopsMalone]

Korver will be a Bull.  Why?  MONEY!  He doesn't care about a championship.  He doesn't have a shoe deal.  He'll take the money.  

Coming to the Bulls or Nets does not mean no championship.  It is not go to Miami and you want to win, and go anywhere else is not wanting to win.  

Maybe Melo will sign for the league minimum in Miami next year too.  It will help his stock.  The Big Three in Miami are not winners because they did not sign with the Lakers for the minimum to challenge the 72 win record.
 
If Kyle Korver should turn down something like $7 million, why shouldn't the big dogs do it?  It is just not happening.  There is no basis for it.  No one under 35 is going to take the minimum if they are worth more.  Maybe people within reason take a paycut, but not the minimum.

[Aughnanure]

You realize that you are making a judgement and then telling other people not to make judgements right?   You just said that they won't build a supporting cast that will allow them to beat the lakers this year.

Alright, you got me. I was just trying to say I dont think the Heat are automatically the best team on paper either....I dont mean to come off saying that the bench doesnt matter. Just sick of people (Chicago fans) saying this team will not win, be a disappointment and will have a terrible bench when they have barely started to fill out the roster.

[HoopsMalone]

Jesus, I never said that! But Miller isn't making 6 million this year! It will backloaded, not talking about the minimum players. We'll see what happens, I have a feeling Pat Riley will do well.

Agree that there is no conspiracy, just pointing out other big moves. But there is no way Stern allows the CBA to hamper the Heat and future dynasties like you are suggesting

You get a base salary and then get raises so every deal is basically backloaded.  You can't say $1 million this year and $15 next year.  You didn't necessarily say that, but Riley really has no room to do anything.  They should take Miller though if he is willing to sign for that.  I think the Knicks were talking about going over the top on that.

[AlumKCof93]

I can see that. Not a bad comparison.

This is a pretty good article on LeBron. It's somewhat similar to what Bill Simmons wrote yesterday.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/michael_rosenberg/07/08/lebron.event/index.html?eref=sihp

Great article, hit the nail on the head.  Thanks for posting it.  Prior to the playoffs, I thought LeBron had the chance to be better than Jordan as he has all the physical tools to be the best ever.  The one question was whether he had the competitive drive Michael or Kobe does.  After his dreadful playoff series against Boston and this move to Miami, its pretty clear he doesn't.  If he thinks he will get the credit for titles after this, he's mistaken.  A player of LeBron's skills earns respect by winning titles.  In this case, LeBron will have lost the respect of fans regardless.  I don't hate the man, but I don't respect him either.  He's taken the easy way out and I hope he falls on his face.  I've also lost respect for Wade.  Why did he mention moving to Chicago to be closer to his kids even if he knew that Bosh and Lebron were coming to Miami?  I don't believe for a second that Wade and Bosh didn't know of Lebrons decision prior to last night.  Why did Wade play it that way and invoke his kids?  

[HoopsMalone]

ESPN Insider has the Heat after the following players:

Jason Williams
Mike James
Keyon Dooling
Earl Watson
Raja Bell
Larry Hughes
Flip Murray
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Deavean George
Brian Skinner
Damien Wilkins
Trenton Hassell
Jarvis Hayes
Eddie House
Etan Thomas
Ime Udoka


Lots of names people recognize.  Who knows if they could make that work.  Lots of players that deserve the minimum to be honest.

[MerrittsMustache]

ESPN Insider has the Heat after the following players:

Jason Williams
Mike James
Keyon Dooling
Earl Watson
Raja Bell
Larry Hughes
Flip Murray
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Deavean George
Brian Skinner
Damien Wilkins
Trenton Hassell
Jarvis Hayes
Eddie House
Etan Thomas
Ime Udoka


Lots of names people recognize.  Who knows if they could make that work.  Lots of players that deserve the minimum to be honest.

Wow, that's a who's who of "third man off the bench."

[muwarrior69]

All three are savy business men. Each probaby saved themselves at least 2-3 million if not more in state income taxes over the life of their contracts by playing in Florida, which has no income tax. No wonder our Govenor here in New Jersey did not want to re-instate the millionaires tax. They will only leave.

[Blackhat]

Lediva spends more money on strippers each year.   2 mil is chump change to these guys...it's not about the money it's about making the league their biatch and getting rings.   Lediva needed a couple other elite players to get there, nothing to be ashamed of, every player does(MJ with Pippen, Kobe with Shaq + Gasol, Wade with Shaq, etc.)

[MauraDay]

I can see that. Not a bad comparison.

This is a pretty good article on LeBron. It's somewhat similar to what Bill Simmons wrote yesterday.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/michael_rosenberg/07/08/lebron.event/index.html?eref=sihp

that is a great article - thanks for posting! hard to argue with it, especially when he compares it to jordan in the opening scenario.