Bert to SMU

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Again, running over his teammate.  Clearly, you have no idea what you are talking about.  No one was run over.  No one.  Funny, you claim I have no idea about what happened with Buzz and you keep repeating that Davis was run over.  No he wasn't.  LOL.

Chicos, are you really going to hang your argument on "he wasn't run over, he was hit in the head by the windshield?"

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chicos, are you really going to hang your argument on "he wasn't run over, he was hit in the head by the windshield?"

Two things. 

1) Running over means running over
2) Davis was at fault as he jumped into the car from the side and hit the front right fender and windshield.  No fault from the driver.

Yes, it makes a difference.  Wadesworld, in his unbias approach would have you believe that someone was targeting him and literally ran him over.  I'm surprised he hasn't said he put it in reverse and ran him over backwards, too.

There is a difference and it does matter.  Davis was at fault, not the driver. That is settled. The driver was also not legally intoxicated, but because he was a minor consuming he got busted....as he should. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Two things. 

1) Running over means running over
2) Davis was at fault as he jumped into the car from the side and hit the front right fender and windshield.  No fault from the driver.

Yes, it makes a difference.  Wadesworld, in his unbias approach would have you believe that someone was targeting him and literally ran him over.  I'm surprised he hasn't said he put it in reverse and ran him over backwards, too.

There is a difference and it does matter.  Davis was at fault, not the driver. That is settled. The driver was also not legally intoxicated, but because he was a minor consuming he got busted....as he should.

I see both as two very bad situations. It's like the guy who albis out of an armed robbery because he was robbing a bank at the same time

[ChicosBailBonds]

I see both as two very bad situations. It's like the guy who albis out of an armed robbery because he was robbing a bank at the same time

There is a reason why no fault was found with the driver, because there was no fault.  Your analogy is pretty poor.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Chicos needs to adjust his medications again.

[keefe]

2) Davis was at fault as he jumped into the car from the side and hit the front right fender and windshield.  No fault from the driver.

This is the most absurd thing ever posted on Scoop!!

[Jay Bee]

There is a reason why no fault was found with the driver, because there was no fault.  Your analogy is pretty poor.

Not true. The police said Davis was *mostly at fault*... they also cited the then-18 year old Holt for underage drinking and operating a vehicle while drinking under age.

Holt says deep down he knows it was his fault. He feels bad "for what he did." His words. He finds fault in his actions.

The legal system is what it is. It's hardly a good barometer for "who is at fault and who is not"

[tower912]

Good lord, is Chico's really trying to spin last year's IU team's off court issues.    Wow.   The man has no shame.    He had better be an F2 tornado to spin fast enough on this one. 

[wadesworld]

Two things. 

1) Running over means running over
2) Davis was at fault as he jumped into the car from the side and hit the front right fender and windshield.  No fault from the driver.

Yes, it makes a difference.  Wadesworld, in his unbias approach would have you believe that someone was targeting him and literally ran him over.  I'm surprised he hasn't said he put it in reverse and ran him over backwards, too.

There is a difference and it does matter.  Davis was at fault, not the driver. That is settled. The driver was also not legally intoxicated, but because he was a minor consuming he got busted....as he should.

LOL!   

Chicos, as I said before, you go to absolutely insane lengths to defend your boyfriend that you say you don't like as a person at all.

When Eddie Lacy knocks down (pick a Cowboys defensive player) trying to tackle him this year and your son makes fun of you for Lacy "running over" the player are you going to correct him and say "No, son, he didn't run in place on top of (Cowboys defensive player), you are wrong."  Or are you going to laugh and say "Yup that was good."

When the women who I witnessed get run over (see: hit and flipped over the hood) by a car on Halloween while I was at MU told police officers that she got "run over" by a car while crossing the street before the car drove away, should I have told the police "Woah woah woah, check her body for tire markings!  I did not see such a thing, she got hit, not run over!" 

My apologies, Chicos.  You are correct, Crean has ABSOLUTELY cleaned this program up.  NIGHT AND DAY!  COMPLETE TURNAROUND!  The underage player who was drunk only HIT his teammate with a vehicle, he did NOT run the player over and then put it in reverse and run him over again.  What a great program!   

I would have them believe that one teammate targeted the other?  Uhh, no.  I would have them believe that one teammate drunkenly HIT (no, the wheels did not go over the player's body, my bad, didn't know you were that incompetent) his own teammate while he was underage.  Which is exactly what happened.  But the program is perfect!  Not a speck of trouble there, the player only HIT the other player, the tires never ran over the other player.  That's common, no issue at all.

And really?  The marijuana suspensions came BEFORE one player HIT another player while driving drunkenly and underage?  I guess November 1, 2014 is now AFTER May 12, 2015?  Only in your "Crean is perfect" world, Chicos. 

Unless there are more marijuana suspensions I'm missing within the IU program?  If so, maybe IU's program isn't so squeaky clean? 

Also, regarding the "rape" at Marquette.  You might want some new sources if that's the information you got.  Was it a black on on the program?  Absolutely.  Was it something to be proud of?  Absolutely not.  Was it something embarrassing?  Something that should not have happened?  No doubt.  Was it rape?  HELL NO!  Maybe befriend different B1G ADs, because the ones you know don't know jack.

[keefe]

Two things. 

1) Running over means running over
2) Davis was at fault as he jumped into the car from the side and hit the front right fender and windshield.  No fault from the driver.

Yes, it makes a difference.  Wadesworld, in his unbias approach would have you believe that someone was targeting him and literally ran him over.  I'm surprised he hasn't said he put it in reverse and ran him over backwards, too.

There is a difference and it does matter.  Davis was at fault, not the driver. That is settled. The driver was also not legally intoxicated, but because he was a minor consuming he got busted....as he should.

I just got back from my daily six and I have to say thinking about this post made me laugh aloud while out running. If nothing else I have to thank you for offering a defense of The Bronze Beast of Bloomington that is so absurd as to be comical. Again, thanks for the hearty laugh. You really should consider a second career as an Absurdist Playwright:

Pinter, Ionesco, Genet, Albee, Havel, Beckett, Stoppard, and The Bail Bondsman...


Some title suggestions:

Waiting for Harbaugh

Who's Afraid of Virginia Tech?

Tommy's Last Tape

Sampson & Meyer Are Dead

Joanie's Ire

The Izzo Story
 

[ChicosBailBonds]

This isn't hard.

Jared Jeffries, one of the final recruits Knight landed and part of Knight's last recruiting class.  Consensus top 10 kid RSCI....key to the title game run two years later.  JJ was the team's leading scorer on the team that went to the championship, but never played a minute for Knight.

AJ Moye and George Leach, also in Knight's last class.  Never played a minute for Knight.

Tom Coverdale, Hornsby and Newton were from the class prior...only played one year as freshmen for Knight.  They were key juniors on that team, all three of them finishing in the top 6 in scoring.

Those last two recruiting classes were huge for Knight, but Davis got them when they matured, not Knight.  Throw in seniors Odle and Dane Fife, and that team was pretty good....ALL of them recruited by Knight.

The only players on that team that were Davis guys were Johnson, Perry and Tapak...two of them scored less than 10 points for the entire year.  Davis was in the right place at the right time with Knight's players who had a few years of maturing under them.

[wadesworld]

This isn't hard.

Jared Jeffries, one of the final recruits Knight landed and part of Knight's last recruiting class.  Consensus top 10 kid RSCI....key to the title game run two years later.  JJ was the team's leading scorer on the team that went to the championship, but never played a minute for Knight.

AJ Moye and George Leach, also in Knight's last class.  Never played a minute for Knight.

Tom Coverdale, Hornsby and Newton were from the class prior...only played one year as freshmen for Knight.  They were key juniors on that team, all three of them finishing in the top 6 in scoring.

Those last two recruiting classes were huge for Knight, but Davis got them when they matured, not Knight.  Throw in seniors Odle and Dane Fife, and that team was pretty good....ALL of them recruited by Knight.

The only players on that team that were Davis guys were Johnson, Perry and Tapak...two of them scored less than 10 points for the entire year.  Davis was in the right place at the right time with Knight's players who had a few years of maturing under them.

You're right, it isn't hard.  So Knight is to be credited for their run to the National Finals.  So he DID, in fact, do something in his last 6 years, in recruiting a roster that made a run to the National Title game, despite you saying over and over and over that Knight did not do anything in his last 6 years.

SOMEBODY has to get some credit for IU's run to the National Title.  So thank you for (finally) clearing that up.  It wasn't hard, you are right.  But, as always, you made it hard.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

LOL!   

Chicos, as I said before, you go to absolutely insane lengths to defend your boyfriend that you say you don't like as a person at all.

When Eddie Lacy knocks down (pick a Cowboys defensive player) trying to tackle him this year and your son makes fun of you for Lacy "running over" the player are you going to correct him and say "No, son, he didn't run in place on top of (Cowboys defensive player), you are wrong."  Or are you going to laugh and say "Yup that was good."

When the women who I witnessed get run over (see: hit and flipped over the hood) by a car on Halloween while I was at MU told police officers that she got "run over" by a car while crossing the street before the car drove away, should I have told the police "Woah woah woah, check her body for tire markings!  I did not see such a thing, she got hit, not run over!" 

My apologies, Chicos.  You are correct, Crean has ABSOLUTELY cleaned this program up.  NIGHT AND DAY!  COMPLETE TURNAROUND!  The underage player who was drunk only HIT his teammate with a vehicle, he did NOT run the player over and then put it in reverse and run him over again.  What a great program!   

I would have them believe that one teammate targeted the other?  Uhh, no.  I would have them believe that one teammate drunkenly HIT (no, the wheels did not go over the player's body, my bad, didn't know you were that incompetent) his own teammate while he was underage.  Which is exactly what happened.  But the program is perfect!  Not a speck of trouble there, the player only HIT the other player, the tires never ran over the other player.  That's common, no issue at all.

And really?  The marijuana suspensions came BEFORE one player HIT another player while driving drunkenly and underage?  I guess November 1, 2014 is now AFTER May 12, 2015?  Only in your "Crean is perfect" world, Chicos. 

Unless there are more marijuana suspensions I'm missing within the IU program?  If so, maybe IU's program isn't so squeaky clean? 

Also, regarding the "rape" at Marquette.  You might want some new sources if that's the information you got.  Was it a black on on the program?  Absolutely.  Was it something to be proud of?  Absolutely not.  Was it something embarrassing?  Something that should not have happened?  No doubt. Was it rape?  HELL NO!  Maybe befriend different B1G ADs, because the ones you know don't know jack.

It was a sexual assault. You can argue whether or not you want to define it as rape. This is the same kind of argument as Chicos run over vs. hit by a car.

[wadesworld]

It was a sexual assault. You can argue whether or not you want to define it as rape. This is the same kind of argument as Chicos run over vs. hit by a car.

There is a GIANT difference between sexual assault and rape. Again, a black eye on the program? Absolutely (even with it being "just" alleged). Something to be ashamed of? No doubt. Unacceptable? No question about it. Rape? HELL NO!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

There is a GIANT difference between sexual assault and rape. Again, a black eye on the program? Absolutely (even with it being "just" alleged). Something to be ashamed of? No doubt. Unacceptable? No question about it. Rape? HELL NO!

Again, same argument Chicos is making. He didn't run him over, the guy ran in front of the car and got hit by it. He didn't rape her, he sexually assaulted her. You tried to sensationalize the Devin Davis situation while Chicos tried to minimize it. Chicos tried to sensationalize the sexual assault and you tried to minimize it. You two are doing the exact same thing. You just happen to have the more popular position on this forum, bashing TC and protecting MU.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Not true. The police said Davis was *mostly at fault*... they also cited the then-18 year old Holt for underage drinking and operating a vehicle while drinking under age.

Holt says deep down he knows it was his fault. He feels bad "for what he did." His words. He finds fault in his actions.

The legal system is what it is. It's hardly a good barometer for "who is at fault and who is not"

Absolutely true.  NO FAULT for the driver.  You can pull the report up yourself. 

Of course he feels bad for what happened, he's an 18 year old kid...who wouldn't.   If Davis doesn't jump into the car, it doesn't happen.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Good lord, is Chico's really trying to spin last year's IU team's off court issues.    Wow.   The man has no shame.    He had better be an F2 tornado to spin fast enough on this one.

Nope, not spinning it at all.  Kids doing dumb things, got caught, in trouble....should have been in trouble, etc, etc. 

That being said, don't lie and say someone was run over when they weren't run over.   Is it too hard to ask for some truthiness?

[ChicosBailBonds]

You're right, it isn't hard.  So Knight is to be credited for their run to the National Finals.  So he DID, in fact, do something in his last 6 years, in recruiting a roster that made a run to the National Title game, despite you saying over and over and over that Knight did not do anything in his last 6 years.

SOMEBODY has to get some credit for IU's run to the National Title.  So thank you for (finally) clearing that up.  It wasn't hard, you are right.  But, as always, you made it hard.

I gave you the last 20 years....compare that to ANY other blue blood and tell me how it compares.

I'll hang up and listen to your answer.  Thanks.

[ChicosBailBonds]

It was a sexual assault. You can argue whether or not you want to define it as rape. This is the same kind of argument as Chicos run over vs. hit by a car.

I don't know if you and\or Wadesword know this, but in some states Sexual Assault IS Rape and vice versa.  They are not treated differently.  I'll have to look up what it is in Wisconsin.  Another way to put it, rape is always sexual assault, but sexual assault isn't always rape...in some states. 

I beg to differ on my comments.  When you run OVER someone, the car goes OVER the person.  When you run INTO someone, that is different.  Even more different when the person runs INTO the car, as the police concluded.   Sorry if the facts don't matter to some of you.

Instead we have the fun "take your meds" 6th grade argument.  Brilliant. 

[wadesworld]

Again, same argument Chicos is making. He didn't run him over, the guy ran in front of the car and got hit by it. He didn't rape her, he sexually assaulted her. You tried to sensationalize the Devin Davis situation while Chicos tried to minimize it. Chicos tried to sensationalize the sexual assault and you tried to minimize it. You two are doing the exact same thing. You just happen to have the more popular position on this forum, bashing TC and protecting MU.

Nope, it's not even close to the same argument, and people aren't agreeing with me because I have the more popular opinion.

I readily admit that the incident was a black eye and unacceptable.  Chicos, on the other hand, talks about how Crean has turned the IU program around and there are absolutely no problems with the incidents that have happened because the wheels didn't literally run the player over.  See the difference?  Yeah, it's pretty absurd.

When someone gets hit so hard by a car that they flip up onto the hood and windshield of the car, they got run over by the car.

Rape and sexual assault are 2 very, very, very different things.  Neither is acceptable in any situation.  But they aren't even remotely close to the same thing (like being "hit" by a car and being "run over" by a car), and the sentencing for the two show that.

I will readily and fully admit that Bert had some major, major problems in the program.  How he treated his coworkers within the athletic department but outside of the men's basketball program towards the end of his tenure was embarrassing.  How he tried to overpower higher ups in the athletic department was unacceptable.  Some of the kids that he tried to get into MU had no business being here.  He had some major flaws.

Meanwhile, Chicos continues to talk about the night and day difference there has been since Crean took over IU, but ignores the fact that 2 players were just kicked off the team for drug use, an 18 year old under the influence of alcohol ran over his teammate while driving, a kid transferred out of the program because he wasn't comfortable with the rampant drug use in the program, and, evidently (since Chicos alleges that the drug suspensions came before the player was run over by his teammate), more suspensions because of drugs.  But, to Chicos it's all good and Crean has completely cleaned the program up because the tires never went over the player.  Hey, to each their own.  If that's a clean program in Chicos's opinion, who am I to convince him otherwise?

 

[connie]

1. Sexual assault is bad.

2. TC is a douche, and always will be.

3. Any organization dependent on catering to 18-21 year old males with a sense of entitlement is going to have issues.

4. I can't wait for the season to start.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Pinching somebody's a55 is sexual assault. Is it also rape?

[GGGG]

Rape and sexual assault are 2 very, very, very different things.

This isn't really true.  Sexual Assault is an all encompassing term that includes rape (sexual penetration without permission.)

http://statelaws.findlaw.com/wisconsin-law/wisconsin-rape-and-sexual-assault-laws.html

[ChicosBailBonds]

Wades

I'm just going to leave at this. Yes, it is night and day difference now then what he inherited.  He cleaned up that mess.  The drug use levels then and the KIND OF DRUGS used radically different.  I'm sorry you don't have those details, some of us do.  Plus the academics, etc, etc.  Yes, he cleaned up that mess.  I don't "continue" to talk about it as you imply.  I answered your falsehoods.

Are there issues with that program like just about every other program?  Yes.  When you deal with 18-22 year old kids, that's going to be the case.  I don't care who you are. 

I stand by what I said because I have more information than you do about IU's situation.  I stand by my comments that IU basketball has been anything but blue blood quality in the last 20 years and the results speak for themselves.  Compare to any other blue blood.

And sorry, sexual assault and rape are the same thing in some states, not all.  Sexual assault tends to be an umbrella term.

Finally, you are welcome, again, that the Pac 12, Big Ten, Big 12, etc are giving out mandatory 4 year scholarships now in basketball despite you not thinking so. 

Good day.   Patriots...1 Super Bowl win the last 10 years....classic.

[wadesworld]

Wades

I'm just going to leave at this. Yes, it is night and day difference now then what he inherited.  He cleaned up that mess.  The drug use levels then and the KIND OF DRUGS used radically different.  I'm sorry you don't have those details, some of us do.  Plus the academics, etc, etc.  Yes, he cleaned up that mess.  I don't "continue" to talk about it as you imply.  I answered your falsehoods.

Are there issues with that program like just about every other program?  Yes.  When you deal with 18-22 year old kids, that's going to be the case.  I don't care who you are. 

I stand by what I said because I have more information than you do about IU's situation.  I stand by my comments that IU basketball has been anything but blue blood quality in the last 20 years and the results speak for themselves.  Compare to any other blue blood.

And sorry, sexual assault and rape are the same thing in some states, not all.  Sexual assault tends to be an umbrella term.

Finally, you are welcome, again, that the Pac 12, Big Ten, Big 12, etc are giving out mandatory 4 year scholarships now in basketball despite you not thinking so. 

Good day.   Patriots...1 Super Bowl win the last 10 years....classic.

Lol. I don't try to spin the facts. I didn't think conferences required 4 year scholarships so I asked for the information. You gave me the information. So thanks and congrats? I don't know what you want me to tell you on that one. But I do know it's a good thing they do require it for the 2 players who Crean kicked off the team for their drug use. It's just unfortunate they didn't get caught using drugs before November 1, 2014, because Crean could've helped keep that hush hush and nobody would've blinked an eye. But when you have an 18 year old drinking alcohol, getting behind the wheel, and running over a teammate you tend to be put under a magnifying glass and those things become tougher to hide.

Yes, 1 Super Bowl in 10 years for the Patriots. What's your point? Haha. Do you really want to look at the last single year to determine things? Okay, 0 Tourneys in the last year for IU. So congrats on that one. Or is every team's window determined differently by you? Of course it is. So for Crean it's the last 4 years, but for IU it's the last 20 years, and for the Patriots it's the last 1 year, and for Bert it's the last 3 years. Lol. You're insane.

Glad to hear that IU players are now using more acceptable illegal drugs in your opinion now than they were before. Crean's done a great job of fixing that issue, obviously.