We Might Look Back...

[Goose]

Herman

I was big, big time DJ guy, but he was not the straw that broke the camel's back. 4ever is completely correct that Rick's recruiting heartbreaks was to much for Rick to overcome at that point in his career. He was young, inexperienced HC and his confidence was severely affected. He chased the right guys, but when they were lost, a big part of his confidence was as well. Again, the comparison with Rick may very well be history repeating itself.

When Rick returned to college ball he no longer chased the whales. He recruited guys that he liked, he could coach and actually ended up being a very lazy recruiter. In his case, he ultimately became one of the great coaching minds of the last 30-40 years and could field a competitive team with just about anyone suiting up.

Kind of like my harping on Wojo having a system, sooner or later a coach has to have an identity. Rick's became being a top five coach in college ball. I would prefer if Wojo's ends up including a slew of 4 and 5 star players. Time will tell.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Just trying to help you with the timeline Goose.  In the 2020 class, I agree that Wojo needs several plan A level targets.

Torrence is a good start but still need 2-3 players at that level.  Even better if Wojo lands 4.

[harryp]

I think the last 5 star that came here was Kerry Trotter.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I think the last 5 star that came here was Kerry Trotter.

Ellenson was a McDonalds AA. 

[Pakuni]

I think the last 5 star that came here was Kerry Trotter.

Vander and Henry were 5 stars.

[D'Lo Brown]

Just trying to help you with the timeline Goose.  In the 2020 class, I agree that Wojo needs several plan A level targets.

Torrence is a good start but still need 2-3 players at that level.  Even better if Wojo lands 4.

I don't know that we absolutely must land any more 4+ star players (to be clear I'm not sure if that's what you meant). From a pure ranking perspective Wojo has landed some incredibly high-ranked recruits. Torrence is definitely up there.

My question at this point is whether it is the right mix. I would prefer him to recruit towards our weaknesses (weaknesses we have now and in the next couple seasons) at this point. We need more glue players, and especially players with excellent dribbling/athleticism/passing ability. We need to free up our primary scorers (Markus, Sam) to do what they do best.

[MU82]

A team loaded with 5-stars (including a once-in-a-generation talent) and coached by one of the two most accomplished college basketball coaches ever lost on a 3-point shot by a guy who walked on at Michigan State.

And while that 5-star-loaded team isn't in the Final Four, a Texas Tech team coached by a guy who came out of Arkansas-Little Rock and has zero 5-stars (and not many 4-stars) has a great shot at a national title.

[pbiflyer]

A team loaded with 5-stars (including a once-in-a-generation talent) and coached by one of the two most accomplished college basketball coaches ever lost on a 3-point shot by a guy who walked on at Michigan State.

And while that 5-star-loaded team isn't in the Final Four, a Texas Tech team coached by a guy who came out of Arkansas-Little Rock and has zero 5-stars (and not many 4-stars) has a great shot at a national title.

So, you are saying that the total team is greater than the sum of the parts? We could say that about Buzz coached teams, Crean coached teams, and heck, even Deane coached teams. Wojo coached teams.......

[muguru]

A team loaded with 5-stars (including a once-in-a-generation talent) and coached by one of the two most accomplished college basketball coaches ever lost on a 3-point shot by a guy who walked on at Michigan State.

And while that 5-star-loaded team isn't in the Final Four, a Texas Tech team coached by a guy who came out of Arkansas-Little Rock and has zero 5-stars (and not many 4-stars) has a great shot at a national title.

That's because the Coach is a 5*...MU doesn't have a Coach that is, therefore, for as long as Wojo is here, he needs the star talent to overcome his own deficiencies. The top talent would make him look better.

Wojo can swim in ponds with the blue bloods all he wants, but unless/until he lands some of them, it doesn't mean jack.

People talk about Henry...Henry was a Wisconsin kid..Land a 5 star or McDonald's All American from Texas(as an example), that had offers from UNC, DUKE, Kentucky etc..THEN we can be impressed.

I can send texts to the hottest women on the planet and show I'm "interested", but it means nothing unless I actually get one to date me.

[Goose]

D'Lo

Agreed. We do not need to only recruit four and five stars and need to recruit guys that fit together. That has been my point the last month or two. You have to recruit studs or recruit guys that compliment each others skills. Wojo has struggled in doing that. As I mentioned on this thread, I love him chasing stars, just wish back up plan meshed together better than it has to date.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

I don't know that we absolutely must land any more 4+ star players (to be clear I'm not sure if that's what you meant). From a pure ranking perspective Wojo has landed some incredibly high-ranked recruits. Torrence is definitely up there.

My question at this point is whether it is the right mix. I would prefer him to recruit towards our weaknesses (weaknesses we have now and in the next couple seasons) at this point. We need more glue players, and especially players with excellent dribbling/athleticism/passing ability. We need to free up our primary scorers (Markus, Sam) to do what they do best.

Rankings never tell the whole story.  System fit, culture fit, work ethic, having a well rounded team, etc., also must be considered.

So I look at rankings as one piece of information but also try to form my own opinion on players.   Then I reevaluate when they get to campus and reevaluate throughout their career.

[MU82]

So, you are saying that the total team is greater than the sum of the parts? We could say that about Buzz coached teams, Crean coached teams, and heck, even Deane coached teams. Wojo coached teams.......

I was not trying to make a "point." I just thought it was interesting info.

I believe we don't know yet how good a coach Wojo can be. Others are already sure he sucks and will never be any good. Maybe one "side" or the other will be proven right in the next year or so.

I also don't know if Crean has shown he can coach greater than the parts of any team he's had. Deane's inferior parts were his own fault. Yes, as to Buzz ... except in his last year at Marquette.

[Johnny B]

And with the Henry thing. Let's not pretend we didn't totally offer his brother to lure him here

[MU82]

That's because the Coach is a 5*...

I'm far too lazy to go back and look, guru, so if you'll kindly link to your posts calling for us to hire Chris Beard out of Angelo State after Buzz left in 2014.

For that matter, if you can kindly link to your posts demanding that Marquette hire any guy whose resume included 1 season at a National Christian College school, 2 seasons at a Division II school and 1 season at a Sun Belt school after Buzz left, I'd actually agree that you (as you once bragged) "know things others don't."

It's real easy to look at Beard now and call him a 5*. But I'm guessing that if we hired a coach with his resume -- 4 seasons as a head coach, and only one at the D1 level -- Scoopers would have been screaming about us "settling," and you would have been among the loudest.

Hell, given the cacophony of complainin' when we hired Buzz, hiring a guy with Beard's background would make Scoop deafening.

So yeah, Beard seemingly has turned out to be a wonderful coach. But you already have said many, many, many, MANY times that you don't want us to hire a guy with no high-major experience. So you don't get to "hire" Beard now.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Trotter was a mcdonalds AA

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Just as I expect Wojo's in game coaching ability to improve over time, I also expect his recruiting ability will improve over time. Needs to deliver in a big way in 2020. Torrence is a great start. Let's see who else he reels in.

[MUDPT]

MU was linked with Nojel Eastern at some point as well. Not sure how close, but it was in a Borzello? article. He would have helped this year too.

[jesmu84]

I'm far too lazy to go back and look, guru, so if you'll kindly link to your posts calling for us to hire Chris Beard out of Angelo State after Buzz left in 2014.

For that matter, if you can kindly link to your posts demanding that Marquette hire any guy whose resume included 1 season at a National Christian College school, 2 seasons at a Division II school and 1 season at a Sun Belt school after Buzz left, I'd actually agree that you (as you once bragged) "know things others don't."

It's real easy to look at Beard now and call him a 5*. But I'm guessing that if we hired a coach with his resume -- 4 seasons as a head coach, and only one at the D1 level -- Scoopers would have been screaming about us "settling," and you would have been among the loudest.

Hell, given the cacophony of complainin' when we hired Buzz, hiring a guy with Beard's background would make Scoop deafening.

So yeah, Beard seemingly has turned out to be a wonderful coach. But you already have said many, many, many, MANY times that you don't want us to hire a guy with no high-major experience. So you don't get to "hire" Beard now.

Yup.

[D'Lo Brown]

D'Lo

Agreed. We do not need to only recruit four and five stars and need to recruit guys that fit together. That has been my point the last month or two. You have to recruit studs or recruit guys that compliment each others skills. Wojo has struggled in doing that. As I mentioned on this thread, I love him chasing stars, just wish back up plan meshed together better than it has to date.

Butt-slapping and "good game, bro!"s all around!

Sorry, I had to. I have agreed with your posts on this recently. We have to have faith in Wojo to bring in unheralded guys from various backgrounds. From what I have read on here from people that know about the recruiting trail much more than I, as well as on 247/elsewhere, it seems that Wojo is still predominantly spending his time on the well-known blue blood types. Perhaps there just aren't as many unheralded guys out there as there used to be, but my suspicion is that they don't spend much time looking in unconventional places, the 2-star bin, etc. The role players that might suit the team best over the next 1-2 years might not be top-100 prospects at all. Passing, dribbling, defense, speed etc are skills we desperately need... IMO, we don't need a star to come in and save the day.

[Jon]

And with the Henry thing. Let's not pretend we didn't totally offer his brother to lure him here

Anyone who claims that Wojo runs a clean program needs to investigate the whole Wally thing.

Disgusting.

[jesmu84]

Anyone who claims that Wojo runs a clean program needs to investigate the whole Wally thing.

Disgusting.

Aren't you the same guy who doesn't want to talk about how dirty programs are? Or, is that only with Pearl?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Anyone who claims that Wojo runs a clean program needs to investigate the whole Wally thing.

Disgusting.

Hardly. Wally wasn't good enough to make the team. Basketball scholarships are earned. Despite this, Wojo made sure Wally had options to either finish his degree at Marquette on scholarship or graduate transfer to another university to play basketball. Wally decided to party with his NBA bound brother instead.

[tower912]

I saw a great picture of Xavier holding his two year old daughter and trying to get her to hold up 4 fingers.   She and her mother live an hour from East Lansing.  They live 4.5 hours from Milwaukee.   

[muguru]

Hardly. Wally wasn't good enough to make the team. Basketball scholarships are earned. Despite this, Wojo made sure Wally had options to either finish his degree at Marquette on scholarship or graduate transfer to another university to play basketball. Wally decided to party with his NBA bound brother instead.

And this is exactly why I don't understand people's angst when it "appears" players get "run off" at different places. Scholarships are year to year..there's no guarantee you will have one all four years. If you can find a better player(which is a Coach's job, to find the best talent), and you lose your scholarship because of that...well, guess what?? Life is full of adversity...learn from it, grow from it, and become a better person because of it. It happens. That same kid may lose a job at some point in his life to..then what??

[jsglow]

Anyone who claims that Wojo runs a clean program needs to investigate the whole Wally thing.

Disgusting.

You mean the player that was asked to either fully commit to basketball in a way comparable to the other 12 scholarship players OR accept a track only FULL scholarship such that he might finish his degree?  That 'Wally thing'?