K-12 Schools & COVID

[Pakuni]

They are offering a virtual option, but my wife and I didn't feel it went that great from March - May, so we're going to home school for this upcoming year instead. Context - my wife has her degree in education, she works at a community college/teaches there as well, and she will be working from home this entire upcoming school year. I work from home as well.

We ran the virtual learning option past our kids, and laid out our plan for home schooling instead, and we came to a consensus on home schooling. Being able to teach them at our pace, get them started on Spanish, teach them life skills as well as the core curriculum, those went into our decision.

I'm not trying to piss on the virtual option, but my kids felt it was more like a job, they were just doing the work to do it, not learning and retaining.

That all sounds very reasonable.

[jesmu84]

The guy has totally lost it

[4everwarriors]

Sell the dental practice.    Become a substitute teacher for your retirement years.    Be the positive influence they so desperately need.   You are just the guy to do it.

Retirement is 15+ years away. Will think about it then, hey?

[mu_hilltopper]

When my wife's schools have been short on subs, they juggle like crazy with all options on the table.

Sometimes the principal takes a class, sometimes it's the librarian, or the PE teacher, so no library or PE classes are done that day.

But often .. they'll just split the class into two, and send the halves to other classrooms of the same grade. -- Can't do that with COVID.

I can see districts forging ahead without enough subs, then being screwed when they are 3 short for the day -- especially when -- shocker -- a few teachers come down with the COVID and are out for 3-4 weeks minimum. 

This will 100% happen.

[Big Papi]

This is a tough situation and a tough decision.  Everyone wants in person schools.  Everyone wants a safe environment.  I have read over the last few pages defending teachers and their rights but what about everyone else's rights?  What is essential and not essential?  What about Amazon employees?  Manufacturing companies?  Meat plants? Doctors, nurses?  I think education is essential and the essential part involves in person schooling.  Should we shut everything down?  Tell the meat packers, manufacturers, restaurants, packaging companies, doctors and nurses and everyone else to just shut it down.  Go home.  They have to deal with the same issues.  I am sure they are figuring out ways to see their parents that live a mile away from them or have high risk individuals living in their house. 

Virtual schooling might work for the rich but it sure as hell is not going to work for the poor and a lot of others.  I'm middle class and my youngest didn't get anything out of the last 3 months of school.  With school a little over a month away, I don't see or hear any legitimate ideas from our educational system that it will be any different.  Why are we not thinking outside the box with this.  A hybrid system can work for the interim.  Split class sizes in half, none of this one day in, one day at home bs.  Do year round school, on and off on a monthly schedule.  Get Google, Apple, Microsoft, Verizon to actually donate laptops, chromebooks, hotspots, educational software that will be used for the greater good.

[Jockey]

???
 

And if you don't think we need qualified teachers to teach in a virtual setting, you are mistaken.  In fact I would argue that need is more acute.  You can't just take a teacher who has taught in person for 20 years and put her in front of a web-cam.  It's a different skill set.

Excellent point. One that has my daughter worried. If there is a combo of live and virtual, she mainly has to cater to the virtual in front of a camera. No walking around the room as she teaches, but just sitting at her desk for 7 1/2 hours (including lunch as teachers and students will not be able to  leave the classroom).

[forgetful]

It is easy to be snarky, but on a lot of levels, I am serious.     Scoopers old enough to be retired have an opportunity to give back and help educate today's youth.    And earn a (very) few bucks on the side.   If this doesn't appeal, what is it about teaching you don't find appealing, even on a limited basis?    This could be your opportunity to be the proverbial 'next man up.'   

Tower, I know a couple people that will be employed now as private teachers for groups of parents. One will be teaching 4-kids total (4 different families; all 2nd graders) and being paid $50 an hour to teach them for 4-hours a day. Parents don't have the time to home school, and don't trust them being back in school. They prefer knowing that they will only be exposed to a youngish retiree and 3 other kids from families they know are also following strict quarantine (e.g. work from home; kids only associate amongst the 4 families).

[injuryBug]

This is a tough situation and a tough decision.  Everyone wants in person schools.  Everyone wants a safe environment.  I have read over the last few pages defending teachers and their rights but what about everyone else's rights?  What is essential and not essential?  What about Amazon employees?  Manufacturing companies?  Meat plants? Doctors, nurses?  I think education is essential and the essential part involves in person schooling.  Should we shut everything down?  Tell the meat packers, manufacturers, restaurants, packaging companies, doctors and nurses and everyone else to just shut it down.  Go home.  They have to deal with the same issues.  I am sure they are figuring out ways to see their parents that live a mile away from them or have high risk individuals living in their house. 

Virtual schooling might work for the rich but it sure as hell is not going to work for the poor and a lot of others.  I'm middle class and my youngest didn't get anything out of the last 3 months of school.  With school a little over a month away, I don't see or hear any legitimate ideas from our educational system that it will be any different.  Why are we not thinking outside the box with this.  A hybrid system can work for the interim.  Split class sizes in half, none of this one day in, one day at home bs.  Do year round school, on and off on a monthly schedule.  Get Google, Apple, Microsoft, Verizon to actually donate laptops, chromebooks, hotspots, educational software that will be used for the greater good.

well said

[MU82]

This is a tough situation and a tough decision.  Everyone wants in person schools.  Everyone wants a safe environment.  I have read over the last few pages defending teachers and their rights but what about everyone else's rights?  What is essential and not essential?  What about Amazon employees?  Manufacturing companies?  Meat plants? Doctors, nurses?  I think education is essential and the essential part involves in person schooling.  Should we shut everything down?  Tell the meat packers, manufacturers, restaurants, packaging companies, doctors and nurses and everyone else to just shut it down.  Go home.  They have to deal with the same issues.  I am sure they are figuring out ways to see their parents that live a mile away from them or have high risk individuals living in their house. 

Virtual schooling might work for the rich but it sure as hell is not going to work for the poor and a lot of others.  I'm middle class and my youngest didn't get anything out of the last 3 months of school.  With school a little over a month away, I don't see or hear any legitimate ideas from our educational system that it will be any different.  Why are we not thinking outside the box with this.  A hybrid system can work for the interim.  Split class sizes in half, none of this one day in, one day at home bs.  Do year round school, on and off on a monthly schedule.  Get Google, Apple, Microsoft, Verizon to actually donate laptops, chromebooks, hotspots, educational software that will be used for the greater good.

As Capt. Picard used to say: “Make it so!”

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

This is damning...many doctors upset that the cdc watered down guidance on school reopening last night.  The fact Gottleib (who helped with CT’s reopening plan) is telling governments to look abroad for guidance should scare everyone. 

https://twitter.com/scottgottliebmd/status/1286487929397874688?s=21

[Hards Alumni]

As long as we don't take Israel's approach.

[GooooMarquette]

This is damning...many doctors upset that the cdc watered down guidance on school reopening last night.  The fact Gottleib (who helped with CT’s reopening plan) is telling governments to look abroad for guidance should scare everyone. 

https://twitter.com/scottgottliebmd/status/1286487929397874688?s=21

It does terrify me...unless school districts actually do look abroad for guidance.

[MU82]

New AP/NORC poll:

80% of Americans polled say they are "very concerned" or "somewhat concerned" about schools reopening.

Notably, among Republicans, 63% say they are "very concerned" or "somewhat concerned."

https://apnorc.org/projects/concerns-about-school-re-openings-loom-large/?campaign_id=56&emc=edit_cn_20200724&instance_id=20588&nl=on-politics-with-lisa-lerer&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=34254&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

Also, 76% of parents say they are "very concerned" or "somewhat concerned" that their kids will fall behind academically.

There are no easy answers. It's not helpful if certain people yell that kids "must go back to school" no matter what or threaten to withhold funding if districts in COVID-19 hotspots refuse to resume in-person schooling.

[Skatastrophy]

Tower, I know a couple people that will be employed now as private teachers for groups of parents. One will be teaching 4-kids total (4 different families; all 2nd graders) and being paid $50 an hour to teach them for 4-hours a day. Parents don't have the time to home school, and don't trust them being back in school. They prefer knowing that they will only be exposed to a youngish retiree and 3 other kids from families they know are also following strict quarantine (e.g. work from home; kids only associate amongst the 4 families).

I have a feeling that microschool pods are going to become very popular for the wealthy

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-23/silicon-valley-bets-big-on-microschools-and-pods

[MU82]

The "first son's" school is not going to fully reopen ...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/23/us/politics/barron-trump-school-coronavirus.html?campaign_id=56&emc=edit_cn_20200724&instance_id=20588&nl=on-politics-with-lisa-lerer&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=34254&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

WASHINGTON — The school attended by President Trump’s son will not fully reopen in September out of concern over the coronavirus pandemic despite the president’s insistence that students across the country be brought back to classrooms in the fall.

St. Andrew’s Episcopal School, a private school in Washington’s Maryland suburbs, said in a letter to parents that it was still deciding whether to adopt a hybrid model for the fall that would allow limited in-person education or to resume holding all classes completely online as was done in the spring. The school will decide early next month which option to follow.

“We are hopeful that public health conditions will support our implementation of the hybrid model in the fall,” said the letter signed by Robert Kosasky, the head of school, and David Brown, the assistant head. “As we prepare to make a decision the week of Aug. 10 about how to best begin the school year,” they added, “we will continue to follow guidance of appropriate health officials and refine both our hybrid and distance learning plans.”

If the school does opt for the hybrid model, students in Grades 7 through 12 would rotate between on-campus and distance learning, with half of the students learning remotely each week. Barron Trump, 14, the youngest of the president’s five children, has spent the last three years at St. Andrew’s.

Mr. Trump has repeatedly insisted that schools fully open and has threatened to withhold federal money from districts that do not, but states, localities and private schools increasingly are defying him.

Teachers’ union leaders said the St. Andrew’s situation should bring home to Mr. Trump how complicated reopening is for schools trying to balance the educational needs of their children and the health concerns of the staff, students and community.

[forgetful]

The "first son's" school is not going to fully reopen ...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/23/us/politics/barron-trump-school-coronavirus.html?campaign_id=56&emc=edit_cn_20200724&instance_id=20588&nl=on-politics-with-lisa-lerer&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=34254&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

WASHINGTON — The school attended by President Trump’s son will not fully reopen in September out of concern over the coronavirus pandemic despite the president’s insistence that students across the country be brought back to classrooms in the fall.

St. Andrew’s Episcopal School, a private school in Washington’s Maryland suburbs, said in a letter to parents that it was still deciding whether to adopt a hybrid model for the fall that would allow limited in-person education or to resume holding all classes completely online as was done in the spring. The school will decide early next month which option to follow.

“We are hopeful that public health conditions will support our implementation of the hybrid model in the fall,” said the letter signed by Robert Kosasky, the head of school, and David Brown, the assistant head. “As we prepare to make a decision the week of Aug. 10 about how to best begin the school year,” they added, “we will continue to follow guidance of appropriate health officials and refine both our hybrid and distance learning plans.”

If the school does opt for the hybrid model, students in Grades 7 through 12 would rotate between on-campus and distance learning, with half of the students learning remotely each week. Barron Trump, 14, the youngest of the president’s five children, has spent the last three years at St. Andrew’s.

Mr. Trump has repeatedly insisted that schools fully open and has threatened to withhold federal money from districts that do not, but states, localities and private schools increasingly are defying him.

Teachers’ union leaders said the St. Andrew’s situation should bring home to Mr. Trump how complicated reopening is for schools trying to balance the educational needs of their children and the health concerns of the staff, students and community.

Certainly he will pull his kid out of that place, and send him to a school that will reopen under his orders.

[MU82]

Annnnd now, the CDC going into Full Politics Mode ...

The top U.S. public health agency issued a full-throated call to reopen schools in a package of new “resources and tools” posted on its website Thursday night that opened with a statement that sounded more like a political speech than a scientific document, listing numerous benefits for children of being in school and downplaying the potential health risks.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention published the new guidance two weeks after President Trump criticized its earlier recommendations on school reopenings as “very tough and expensive,” ramping up what had already been an anguished national debate over the question of how soon children should return to classrooms. As the president was criticizing the initial C.D.C. recommendations, a document from the agency surfaced that detailed the risks of reopening and the steps that districts were taking to minimize those risks.

“Reopening schools creates opportunity to invest in the education, well-being, and future of one of America’s greatest assets — our children — while taking every precaution to protect students, teachers, staff and all their families,” the new opening statement said.

The package of materials began with the opening statement, titled “The Importance of Reopening America’s Schools This Fall,” and repeatedly described children as being at low risk for being infected by or transmitting the coronavirus, even though the science on both aspects is far from settled.

“The best available evidence indicates if children become infected, they are far less likely to suffer severe symptoms,” the statement said. “At the same time, the harms attributed to closed schools on the social, emotional, and behavioral health, economic well-being, and academic achievement of children, in both the short- and long-term, are well-known and significant.”

While children infected by the virus are at low risk of becoming severely ill or dying, how often they become infected and how efficiently they spread the virus to others is not definitively known. Children in middle and high schools may also be at much higher risk of both than those under 10, according to some recent studies.

Beyond the statement, the package included decision tools and checklists for parents, guidance on mitigation measures for schools to take and other information that some epidemiologists described as helpful.

The new materials are meant to supplement guidance the C.D.C. previously issued on when and how to reopen schools, with recommendations such as keeping desks six feet apart and keeping children in one classroom all day instead of allowing them to move around.

The new statement released on Thursday is a stark departure from the 69-page document, obtained by The New York Times earlier this month, marked “For Internal Use Only,” which was intended for federal public health response teams to have as they are deployed to hot spots around the country.

That document classified as “highest risk” the full reopening of schools, and its suggestions for mitigating the risk of school reopenings would be expensive and difficult for many districts, like broad testing of students and faculty and contact tracing to find people exposed to an infected student or teacher.

[Jockey]

Annnnd now, the CDC going into Full Politics Mode ...

The top U.S. public health agency issued a full-throated call to reopen schools in a package of new “resources and tools” posted on its website Thursday night that opened with a statement that sounded more like a political speech than a scientific document, listing numerous benefits for children of being in school and downplaying the potential health risks.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention published the new guidance two weeks after President Trump criticized its earlier recommendations on school reopenings as “very tough and expensive,” ramping up what had already been an anguished national debate over the question of how soon children should return to classrooms. As the president was criticizing the initial C.D.C. recommendations, a document from the agency surfaced that detailed the risks of reopening and the steps that districts were taking to minimize those risks.

“Reopening schools creates opportunity to invest in the education, well-being, and future of one of America’s greatest assets — our children — while taking every precaution to protect students, teachers, staff and all their families,” the new opening statement said.

The package of materials began with the opening statement, titled “The Importance of Reopening America’s Schools This Fall,” and repeatedly described children as being at low risk for being infected by or transmitting the coronavirus, even though the science on both aspects is far from settled.

“The best available evidence indicates if children become infected, they are far less likely to suffer severe symptoms,” the statement said. “At the same time, the harms attributed to closed schools on the social, emotional, and behavioral health, economic well-being, and academic achievement of children, in both the short- and long-term, are well-known and significant.”

While children infected by the virus are at low risk of becoming severely ill or dying, how often they become infected and how efficiently they spread the virus to others is not definitively known. Children in middle and high schools may also be at much higher risk of both than those under 10, according to some recent studies.

Beyond the statement, the package included decision tools and checklists for parents, guidance on mitigation measures for schools to take and other information that some epidemiologists described as helpful.

The new materials are meant to supplement guidance the C.D.C. previously issued on when and how to reopen schools, with recommendations such as keeping desks six feet apart and keeping children in one classroom all day instead of allowing them to move around.

The new statement released on Thursday is a stark departure from the 69-page document, obtained by The New York Times earlier this month, marked “For Internal Use Only,” which was intended for federal public health response teams to have as they are deployed to hot spots around the country.

That document classified as “highest risk” the full reopening of schools, and its suggestions for mitigating the risk of school reopenings would be expensive and difficult for many districts, like broad testing of students and faculty and contact tracing to find people exposed to an infected student or teacher.

We know that the poser who was advising trump was pushing to soften the guidelines.

[GooooMarquette]

The "first son's" school is not going to fully reopen ...

And that poor kid would benefit far more than most from getting out of the home....

FWIW, the lessons we are learning from places that actually had the virus contained should give caution to those clamoring for in-person school.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/24/world/coronavirus-covid-19.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage#link-1038969f

If places that had successfully contained the virus can only last a month or so before cases begin to rebound, how can we possibly open schools in the vast majority of the US? Or even in places that do have it effectively contained, like Melbourne and Spain did?

[MUDPT]

I don’t think schools should open, although with Rt in Wisconsin at 1.01, I’m beginning to change my mind. My wife and I are both in hospitals with me working with COVID+ patients. Our children went to live with in laws for 11 weeks in March. We got a survey from our district last week about reopening. 3 days later the teachers union demanded all virtual and told the district they weren’t going back until there were 14 straight days of ZERO cases in our county. The next day, the district went all virtual for the next quarter, even though the survey was supposed to go for another 10 days. This week we got another email from the district that virtual learning wouldn’t start right away the first day because the teachers needed professional development days and we would start within the first week.

It’s weird the rhetoric went from “we need to find a way to safely open schools” to “everyone is going to die.” I wish the education system was a little more sensitive to those of us who have made major sacrifices for months now. It would be nice to hear someone say, “I’m working my tail off right now to make virtual learning the best possible situation.” And I’m sure those people are out there, but they certainly get drowned out by the doomsday people.

FYI, our virtual learning was garbage. Our teacher never met with our daughter one on one and we received zero feedback on where her progress was on various subjects. We are thankful that we have access to apps, that show us where she is developmentally.

[tower912]

What has been the leading factor of spread in states that thought they had it under control?     Large gatherings that don't wear masks or observe social distancing.      What is school as it relates to COVID?     A large gathering where social distancing is going to be nearly impossible with a population prone to not thinking through consequences of actions. (i.e. wearing/not wearing masks)   

And we are going to be asking the underpaid teachers and underfunded school districts to attempt yet another social miracle.

[Jockey]

I don’t think schools should open, although with Rt in Wisconsin at 1.01, I’m beginning to change my mind. My wife and I are both in hospitals with me working with COVID+ patients. Our children went to live with in laws for 11 weeks in March. We got a survey from our district last week about reopening. 3 days later the teachers union demanded all virtual and told the district they weren’t going back until there were 14 straight days of ZERO cases in our county. The next day, the district went all virtual for the next quarter, even though the survey was supposed to go for another 10 days. This week we got another email from the district that virtual learning wouldn’t start right away the first day because the teachers needed professional development days and we would start within the first week.

It’s weird the rhetoric went from “we need to find a way to safely open schools” to “everyone is going to die.” I wish the education system was a little more sensitive to those of us who have made major sacrifices for months now. It would be nice to hear someone say, “I’m working my tail off right now to make virtual learning the best possible situation.” And I’m sure those people are out there, but they certainly get drowned out by the doomsday people.

FYI, our virtual learning was garbage. Our teacher never met with our daughter one on one and we received zero feedback on where her progress was on various subjects. We are thankful that we have access to apps, that show us where she is developmentally.

Pretty much agree on all of this.

I think/hope the virtual learning will be much better in the fall as the teachers and school districts will have had time to prepare.

I will say that my daughter (a teacher) was extremely disappointed in the lack of preparedness of the school district in March. In fact, there was zero preparedness, so anything is going to be better. Teachers will be required to teach from their classrooms instead of their homes and time spent will be similar to a normal school day.

[Jockey]

What has been the leading factor of spread in states that thought they had it under control?     Large gatherings that don't wear masks or observe social distancing.      What is school as it relates to COVID?     A large gathering where social distancing is going to be nearly impossible with a population prone to not thinking through consequences of actions. (i.e. wearing/not wearing masks)   

And we are going to be asking the underpaid teachers and underfunded school districts to attempt yet another social miracle.

The good news though, is that it will all be the teachers fault. They hate America and want to get rid of trump.

[pbiflyer]

A 9-year-old girl with no known underlying health conditions is the youngest person to die from coronavirus complications in Florida, officials said.
https://apple.news/AfoXCBnqNQpaOyBcaO4CkfQ

[muguru]

What has been the leading factor of spread in states that thought they had it under control?     Large gatherings that don't wear masks or observe social distancing.      What is school as it relates to COVID?     A large gathering where social distancing is going to be nearly impossible with a population prone to not thinking through consequences of actions. (i.e. wearing/not wearing masks)   

And we are going to be asking the underpaid teachers and underfunded school districts to attempt yet another social miracle.

What is the infection rate/transmission rate amongst school aged children?? Also, what is your plan for parents that would now need to stay home with their kids because they aren't in school, and they can't go to work?? Thanks, I will hang up and listen.