NFC North/NFL Thread 2016-17

[MerrittsMustache]

Barkley > Cutler

Only if the Bears are looking to lose out.

I'll admit, Barkley wasn't as bad as I thought he might be. He wasn't that good either. The first INT wasn't entirely his fault as the LB made a better play on the ball than the TE. The second INT was brutal though. He also spiked a few screen passes that had potential. In the end, he picked apart a bad secondary while it was playing a lot of prevent D. That said, he could prove to be a viable back-up for the team or possibly even the starter going into next season if they draft a QB highly but don't want to throw him in right away.

From what's been reported, the Bears aren't enamored with any QBs in the upcoming draft and it could end up being Cutler under center again next season.

Cue overplayed jokes from GB fans about how much they hope Cutler is back...

[JWags85]

From what's been reported, the Bears aren't enamored with any QBs in the upcoming draft and it could end up being Cutler under center again next season.

This is why you can't have any faith in this organization.  In a QB driven league, they are pathetically prepared.  The last time the Bears drafted a QB before the 6th round?...Kyle f'ing Orton, 12 drafts ago.  They drafted 1 QB in the last 5 years, perma practice squad stand in David Fales, in the 6th.  Its like after LeFevour and Enderle didn't turn out to be 6th round HOF players like Brady, the Bears decided they were just good with Cutler being backed up by scrub journeymen.

Not even revisionist history to see a guy like Prescott being a stud, but players like Connor Cook, Kevin Hogan, Jacoby Brissett, Bryce Petty, Hundley, and Simien went in the 3rd-6th rounds in the last 2 drafts.  They won't all be All-Pros, but you at least have to give someone a shot.  The Bears are gonna the wallflowers refusing to dance with anyone cause they can't waltz with a VS model.

[MerrittsMustache]

This is why you can't have any faith in this organization.  In a QB driven league, they are pathetically prepared.  The last time the Bears drafted a QB before the 6th round?...Kyle f'ing Orton, 12 drafts ago.  They drafted 1 QB in the last 5 years, perma practice squad stand in David Fales, in the 6th.  Its like after LeFevour and Enderle didn't turn out to be 6th round HOF players like Brady, the Bears decided they were just good with Cutler being backed up by scrub journeymen.

Not even revisionist history to see a guy like Prescott being a stud, but players like Connor Cook, Kevin Hogan, Jacoby Brissett, Bryce Petty, Hundley, and Simien went in the 3rd-6th rounds in the last 2 drafts.  They won't all be All-Pros, but you at least have to give someone a shot.  The Bears are gonna the wallflowers refusing to dance with anyone cause they can't waltz with a VS model.

I can go both ways on this. It does make sense for a team to have a young QB who could get some snaps if/when the team is out of it and looking toward next season.

At the same time, most QBs drafted are a wasted pick. How many QBs drafted after Rounds 1-2 go on to have even moderately productive careers? Teams either have a franchise QB or they don't. The Bears could take Trubisky or Watson or Kaaya or some other QB with a top 5 pick, but if they don't think any of those guys are a franchise QB, they should take a player at a different position. In the later rounds, if a team is underwhelmed with the QBs in the draft class, there's no pointing in taking one just for the sake of taking a QB. If the Bears were getting a look at Connor Cook or Brett Hundley over these next few weeks, would that really be all that different than getting a look at Matt Barkley? None of those guys are going to be difference-makers for the franchise. A team is significantly more likely to get a decent contribution from a DB, OL, etc in the 4th Round as opposed to a QB, especially for a team like the Bears who basically need help across the board.

[MU B2002]

(clipped)... a team like the Bears who basically need help across the board.

As a Bears fan it is very scary to look at how many positions of need there are on this team.  Especially considering we have been picking in the top 1/2 of the draft for what, 6 years now?

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

As a Bears fan it is very scary to look at how many positions of need there are on this team.  Especially considering we have been picking in the top 1/2 of the draft for what, 6 years now?

I still stand by my very initial assessment that Kevin White was a god awful draft pick.

[MerrittsMustache]

As a Bears fan it is very scary to look at how many positions of need there are on this team.  Especially considering we have been picking in the top 1/2 of the draft for what, 6 years now?

There are 10 players remaining on the roster from Emery's 3 draft classes (2012-14), Jeffery being the only one from the 2012 Draft. Jeffery and Long being the only two who have had a significant impact. O'Donnell has been a solid punter and Leno has been adequate, at best, at LT.

In addition, the Bears traded up to get Jeffery when they likely didn't have to and they took Kyle Long at #20 when he almost definitely would have been available for them in the 2nd Round at 50. He also traded two 3rd Round picks for Brandon Marshall, who was about to be released by Miami. Emery's good always seemed to come with some bad.

[MerrittsMustache]

I still stand by my very initial assessment that Kevin White was a god awful draft pick.

Vic Beasley - who was my preferred pick and went 1 slot after White - has 9.5 sacks this season. Just saying 

[brandx]

At the same time, most QBs drafted are a wasted pick. How many QBs drafted after Rounds 1-2 go on to have even moderately productive careers?

That comment makes no sense. Every team needs a QB. the Bears just put their heads in the sand because there is no sure thinbg. And then they draft guys like Kevin White, McCleelan, Carimi, Chris Williams, etc in the 1st round.

Every pick is a crapshoot. You have to draft a QB and you need to do it early.

There is only 1 good QB drafted in the 2nd round. Only 1 good QB from the 3rd round. And both of those only fell from the 1st round because of their height - not a lack of talent. 2 from the 4th and only one better than bad QB after that.


Yeah, it is a crapshoot - but one the bears have made the incredibly stupid decision to totally avoid. And it appears they will continue that trend.

[MerrittsMustache]

That comment makes no sense. Every team needs a QB. the Bears just put their heads in the sand because there is no sure thinbg. And then they draft guys like Kevin White, McCleelan, Carimi, Chris Williams, etc in the 1st round.

Every pick is a crapshoot. You have to draft a QB and you need to do it early.

There is only 1 good QB drafted in the 2nd round. Only 1 good QB from the 3rd round. And both of those only fell from the 1st round because of their height - not a lack of talent. 2 from the 4th and only one better than bad QB after that.


Yeah, it is a crapshoot - but one the bears have made the incredibly stupid decision to totally avoid. And it appears they will continue that trend.

I don't understand drafting a QB for the sake of drafting a QB. A QB is either a franchise QB or he's not. Do you take your highest graded QB in the 3rd Round and just hope for the best or do you wait to find a guy who you think can lead your franchise to a run of sustained success? What's the point in taking a QB in the 4th Round if you think there are better players available that would fill a bigger need?

What QB did you want the Bears to draft at #7 in 2015? If they had a legit shot at trading up for Mariota, I would have been all for it. Other than that, there was nothing there.

What about at #9 (or 11) in 2016? Would you rather have Paxton Lynch instead of Leonard Floyd? If you believe Lynch is a franchise QB, I'd have no problem making that swap. What about Cody Kessler over Jonathan Bullard? Kevin Hogan instead of Jordan Howard?

Assuming the Bears get a top 5 pick in 2017, should they take the top QB available even if they don't think he's "franchise QB" material and they have other players graded significantly higher?

EDIT: Admittedly, I was on the other side of this debate a few weeks ago. After thinking more about it though, there's really no difference in my mind between sending a young journeyman out there (like Barkley) and sending a rookie 3rd-6th round pick out there. The odds of that QB becoming "the man" are pretty slim, yet the signing of Barkley didn't cost them a chance to draft a contributor.

[JWags85]

I think its partially cause the Bears made some questionable picks in middle rounds.  I'm not advocating for them to have moved around for guys like Mariota or Paxton Lynch.  I'm just saying over the last 5 years, they never moved on a potential contributor at the QB position in middle rounds.  And its not like they were stacking with great players at other positions. 

And the difference for me, with a guy like Cook or Hogan or even Kessler, there is still some potential upside.  Barkley, you know what you've got.  He had shots in Philadelphia and Arizona and was just eh.  Not to mention he's a guy who was once talked about as a first round pick, albeit briefly, early on in his USC career and then has progressively been downgraded the more people get a look at him.

TLDR, the Bears front office has drafted like garbage for the better part of a decade, and QB depth is just one piece of that.

[jesmu84]

I think its partially cause the Bears made some questionable picks in middle rounds.  I'm not advocating for them to have moved around for guys like Mariota or Paxton Lynch.  I'm just saying over the last 5 years, they never moved on a potential contributor at the QB position in middle rounds.  And its not like they were stacking with great players at other positions. 

And the difference for me, with a guy like Cook or Hogan or even Kessler, there is still some potential upside.  Barkley, you know what you've got.  He had shots in Philadelphia and Arizona and was just eh.  Not to mention he's a guy who was once talked about as a first round pick, albeit briefly, early on in his USC career and then has progressively been downgraded the more people get a look at him.

TLDR, the Bears front office has drafted like garbage for the better part of a decade, and QB depth is just one piece of that.

This is far more important than the Bears' QB draft strategy

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

I'm still a big fan of Deshaun Watson. I fully expect the Bears to get the number 2 pick and hope Watson is the guy, or Peppers of the Browns don't take him.

[wadesworld]

Can Chuck take the suit off and put on a Packers uniform?

[wadesworld]

Offense looks good.

You would think there would come some point where Mac has seen his defense isn't good enough to trust no matter what the down and distance is to give the other team free timeouts at the end of the half. I can't remember the last time the Packers haven't given up points doing that, and it seems like they do it every game.

[brandx]

Offense looks good.

You would think there would come some point where Mac has seen his defense isn't good enough to trust no matter what the down and distance is to give the other team free timeouts at the end of the half. I can't remember the last time the Packers haven't given up points doing that, and it seems like they do it every game.

We saw a lot of new sets tonite for GB. Why did it take McCarthy this long to try something a little bit different.

[tower912]

So, reports of AR's demise are greatly exaggerated?

[mu03eng]

So, reports of AR's demise are greatly exaggerated?

They've been greatly exaggerated for at least 5 weeks now. AR hasn't been the problem it's been injuries and offensive/defensive game plans.

They actually controlled time of possession last night which shortened the game which limited how much the defense was exposed. That plus a single take away made all the difference. Wildly under reported in this whole stink is how bad the defense has been at creating turnovers.

Lastly, I still don't know why teams aren't hiring a smart person who's played a lot of Madden to manage time outs and challenges for these coaches. McCarthy twice used timeouts that resulted in either no opportunity for GB to score or gave the Eagles an opportunity to score against a porous defense. Pederson channeled his inner Andy Reid on a 2 yard challenge. These are professionals that make millions of dollars but can't be trusted with challenges and time outs.

[mu03eng]

We saw a lot of new sets tonite for GB. Why did it take McCarthy this long to try something a little bit different.

The inside RO with an outside option on 3rd and 3 was a thing of beauty...has he spent the last 4 weeks drawing that one play up?

[wadesworld]

They've been greatly exaggerated for at least 5 weeks now. AR hasn't been the problem it's been injuries and offensive/defensive game plans.

They actually controlled time of possession last night which shortened the game which limited how much the defense was exposed. That plus a single take away made all the difference. Wildly under reported in this whole stink is how bad the defense has been at creating turnovers.

Lastly, I still don't know why teams aren't hiring a smart person who's played a lot of Madden to manage time outs and challenges for these coaches. McCarthy twice used timeouts that resulted in either no opportunity for GB to score or gave the Eagles an opportunity to score against a porous defense. Pederson channeled his inner Andy Reid on a 2 yard challenge. These are professionals that make millions of dollars but can't be trusted with challenges and time outs.

Aaron Rodgers was pretty bad at the start of the season (and for the second half of last season) while the defense was still playing well enough to get by.

But that doesn't mean Aaron Rodgers isn't a HOFer, is over the hill, isn't a "natural born winner," or any of the ridiculous things that have been said about him this season.  He went through a rough stretch of what amounted to roughly one full season.  Those things happen.

He's a sure fire, first ballot HOFer, without question.  And he certainly still has it.

It's going to be an interesting last five weeks of the season.  For as bad as the Packers have been, they have a relatively easy stretch to close out the season, with home games against Houston, Seattle, and Minnesota (all teams that could certainly beat the Packers, but not teams that are lighting up the scoreboard, which are the teams that worry me as Packer fans) and road games against Chicago and Detroit.  Detroit goes to the Saints, Giants, and Cowboys and hosts the Packers and Bears.  I think there's at least 3 losses in there, with the possibility of 4.  Minnesota hosts the Cowboys, Bears, and Colts and goes to the Packers and Jags.  I see 2 more losses there.  There could be a 3 way tie at the top, and the Packers may win that based on division record.

[MU82]

I can go both ways on this. It does make sense for a team to have a young QB who could get some snaps if/when the team is out of it and looking toward next season.

At the same time, most QBs drafted are a wasted pick. How many QBs drafted after Rounds 1-2 go on to have even moderately productive careers? Teams either have a franchise QB or they don't. The Bears could take Trubisky or Watson or Kaaya or some other QB with a top 5 pick, but if they don't think any of those guys are a franchise QB, they should take a player at a different position. In the later rounds, if a team is underwhelmed with the QBs in the draft class, there's no pointing in taking one just for the sake of taking a QB. If the Bears were getting a look at Connor Cook or Brett Hundley over these next few weeks, would that really be all that different than getting a look at Matt Barkley? None of those guys are going to be difference-makers for the franchise. A team is significantly more likely to get a decent contribution from a DB, OL, etc in the 4th Round as opposed to a QB, especially for a team like the Bears who basically need help across the board.

I agree: Don't reach with a top-5 pick for a QB you are not 99.9% sure about.

I also agree that a team shouldn't draft a QB just for the sake of drafting a QB. A team should scout its balls off and find good QB prospects to take in the middle to late rounds. Maybe a guy has skills and smarts but is considered a little too small (Russell Wilson). Maybe a guy has promise but made an off-the-field mistake that hurts his status (Prescott). Maybe a guy was considered only "competent and boring" in college but had some NFL skills (Brady). Drug rumors dropped Marino to the end of the first round. Tiny stature dropped Brees out of the first round. Etc, etc, etc.

Those are the outliers, of course. For every Brady, there are dozens upon dozens of busts. But teams DO find these prospects. It happens every couple/few drafts that a non-1st rounder is taken who becomes a good NFL QB. Some even become great!

[drewm88]

They've been greatly exaggerated for at least 5 weeks now. AR hasn't been the problem it's been injuries and offensive/defensive game plans.

They actually controlled time of possession last night which shortened the game which limited how much the defense was exposed. That plus a single take away made all the difference. Wildly under reported in this whole stink is how bad the defense has been at creating turnovers.

Lastly, I still don't know why teams aren't hiring a smart person who's played a lot of Madden to manage time outs and challenges for these coaches. McCarthy twice used timeouts that resulted in either no opportunity for GB to score or gave the Eagles an opportunity to score against a porous defense. Pederson channeled his inner Andy Reid on a 2 yard challenge. These are professionals that make millions of dollars but can't be trusted with challenges and time outs.

The 2 yard challenge was hilarious. How does that happen? The timeouts bothered me a little less. At least with the first you could see what they were going for, which has often worked for them in past years. Probably time to hang up that end of half strategy, given our defense. And the 4th down timeout was weird, but I was feeling good enough about the night by then that I could let it go. Crazy how winning makes everything better.

Loved the new look offense last night. Let's keep that up.

[wadesworld]

Was it me or was Peppers playing a lot more snaps last night than he has in a long time?

[🏀]

Was it me or was Peppers playing a lot more snaps last night than he has in a long time?

Snap counts aren't published yet, but his season high is 50 against Indy. Average is 30.

[GGGG]

I can't believe I am doing this, but I just looked up the Lions schedule and see they have some losable games coming up at New Orleans, at New York Giants and at Dallas.

Why?  Because if the Packers win out, they will be ahead of Minnesota for sure based on the record in the division tie-breaker.  They would just need the Lions to lose one additional game.

THERE'S A CHANCE!!!!

[mu03eng]

Was it me or was Peppers playing a lot more snaps last night than he has in a long time?

He is because Clay had to play inside because we have no depth at ILB. Clay with one hammy and one shoulder is apparently better inside than anyone we have left on the roster.

Not sure how you can play a 3-4 defense with only two serviceable ILBs on the roster (Ryan and Martinez). Thomas is a specialist at best.