MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: wrk592 on April 06, 2013, 04:31:27 PM
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Lotta talk at the Al about Vander leaving. One source tells me she had to remove Vanders photo from the MUBB stationary. Also, see Vanders tweet, "everybody Askin the same question"
Could Vander be stupid enough to leave?
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Well, flights to Europe are pretty cheap right now.
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Well, flights to Europe are pretty cheap right now.
+1. Crazy, maybe he needs to talk to Jerel McNeal. He had some decent success at Marquette. I watch a bit of NBA and I don't see how a 6'3 guard that struggles with shooting fits in. Maybe he's being told he's a first round pick. If that's the case he has to go.
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Lotta talk at the Al about Vander leaving. One source tells me she had to remove Vanders photo from the MUBB stationary.
I'm pretty certain that removing Vander from the stationary would be pretty far down the list of things to do. That's not what I would call evidence.
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It makes sense that this thread is started by someone with just three posts.
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Can't blame the kid if he wants to go pro. Family has been struggling financially. Buzz and his mom will make sure if its the right time to decide or not.
The team would be better if he stays no doubt, but will succeed without him.
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Vander probably would be better served to stay for his senior season. But, the draft is much weaker this year than next, so who knows. Probably not a first-rounder for either 2013 or 2014....? Also, his outside shot (though improved this year) probably won't get much better. Would not be surprised to see him put his name into the draft. Selfishly, I would like to see him come back, but that may not be the case. The biggest case for him to return would be that he would get his degree or be close. Maybe, his Mom might have some input into that side of things.
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league not looking for poor shooting guards. just ask d. james. Vander needs to spend another summer working on his
shot, come back and prove he can do it then he may be a lotery pick. Please Vander think it through.
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It makes sense that this thread is started by someone with just three posts.
Probably from Madison too.
Nothing to see here.
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Anyone who doesn't realize Vander would get a shot in the NBA must have gouged their eyes out with Oedipus glasses for fear that this team would be unwatchable without Jae and DJO.
Vander would get drafted this year if he declared, guaranteed. Probably second round, but he has enough size (more than DJO or Jerel) and length, can get to the rack, and most important has shown the willingness and ability to improve his game, which means his potential is something that has been proven to be tangible, unlike many one-and-done types that declare simply because they played in the Mickey D's game.
I sincerely hope he comes back, but if he goes, I wouldn't blame him at all.
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To everyone who's calling me out: I just heard from someone who's worked at the office for the past 3 years that Vander leaving is the talk of the office. Its a possibility and he would get drafted.
Just surprised no one has brought it up yet.
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Lotta talk at the Al about Vander leaving. One source tells me she had to remove Vanders photo from the MUBB stationary. Also, see Vanders tweet, "everybody Askin the same question"
Could Vander be stupid enough to leave?
Is that you kenoshawarrior???
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And for everyone heaving accusations around, wrk592 is a current Junior here at Marquette, and as big a fanatic as any of us here. Let's hope Vander sees next year as a chance to get even better while making another deep tourney run.
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I love the guy who is privy to the inside info and the "source backed" rumors just happens to be the one who has less than 15 posts. I am putting soooooo much stock into what you have to say. What about Buzz leaving--pls provide updates from your sources.
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Why not go through the process sans agent?
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Draft Express has Vander listed at #21 in the 2014 draft...one spot above Hardaway. Why wouldn't he throw his hat in the ring during the early entry process and withdraw if interest is not there for 2013?
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2014/
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Why not go through the process sans agent?
Don't think you can really do that anymore. NCAA makes you declare something like one week after the NCAA championship game, well before any workouts or camps occur.
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Draft Express has Vander listed at #21 in the 2014 draft...one spot above Hardaway. Why wouldn't he throw his hat in the ring during the early entry process and withdraw if interest is not there for 2013?
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2014/
Because someone is giving him bad advice at the moment. I would hate to see him leave for 2013, I don't think he goes in first round at all. Second round and he is NDBL and a waste. He has improved each year and next year if he continues, then his stock will rise. The NBA scouts have him on his radar and next year would be his vaulting year if he continues to progress at this rate.
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The NCAA withdrawal deadline is April 16: http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2014/
Portsmouth is April 10-13 for senior evaluation: http://www.nbadraft.net/2013-early-entry-list
Does MU let Vander miss school?
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Evil, did you ax permission when cuttin' classes?
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Evil, did you ax permission when cuttin' classes?
No, but Vander might like a few last year...
“We’re not a minor league for pro sports franchises,” (Larry) Williams says."
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Vander would get drafted this year if he declared, guaranteed.
Good gravy, the guy wasn't even first team Big East and you have him in the NBA "guaranteed"?
He's a good college player. NBA draft has him at "Mid second round to likely undrafted."
He's not going anywhere.
Interestingly, they also have Jamil as "Second round to undrafted." Not sure which is better .. "undrafted" or "likely undrafted" .. probably "likely" is a few spots better.
I've said it before .. none of these guys get drafted unless they take a big leap in future season(s).
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Funny that the number of posts you have dictates how credible you are. I lurk here everyday and decide to post something I've heard about. Its not a "source" it's just a friend I have in the office who has been around the office since frosh year and hears rumors now and then.
Vander has been removed from the brochures mubb sends out to prospective players. Pair that with rumors about him leaving and i figured I would post. Sorry to inconvenience you though.
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Why would they take Vander off the promotional material to future players. His deciding to go to the NBA should/would not affect his presence on this type of material, probably his presence would only enhance it. Keep trying!
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This sounds like one of those a friend heard from a students who is third cousins with the coaches broer. No weight at all.
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Funny that the number of posts you have dictates how credible you are. I lurk here everyday and decide to post something I've heard about. Its not a "source" it's just a friend I have in the office who has been around the office since frosh year and hears rumors now and then.
Vander has been removed from the brochures mubb sends out to prospective players. Pair that with rumors about him leaving and i figured I would post. Sorry to inconvenience you though.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, no problem. Maybe he is discussing it with the staff and he very well should be. The outcome of the discussions should be "not this year Vander".
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Maybe they're taking him off promo materials because he's changing his number again.
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Or transferrin'?
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Funny that the number of posts you have dictates how credible you are. I lurk here everyday and decide to post something I've heard about. Its not a "source" it's just a friend I have in the office who has been around the office since frosh year and hears rumors now and then.
Vander has been removed from the brochures mubb sends out to prospective players. Pair that with rumors about him leaving and i figured I would post. Sorry to inconvenience you though.
No, please keep posting. Seriously. You haven't been the first one who comes around here with info that people throw under the bus.
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I would hope that the workin' folk at the Al that manage the details would not...
I give them a lot more credit than that. A lot more.
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I lurk here everyday and decide to post something I've heard about. Its not a "source" it's just a friend
Then why did YOU refer to it as a source??
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Then why did YOU refer to it as a source??
Easy partner, the original post said a source, as in the source of his information. Fair statement. As he got bullied throughout the course of this thread, the word "source" got parsed into something he probably didn't mean at the outset. Sheesh.
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Just stop it. He's not going anywhere.
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Wouldn't be surprised if wrkn's source is right.
remember the source and first guy who broke that buzz was hired was a guy who worked at the spirit shop.
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Anyone who doesn't realize Vander would get a shot in the NBA must have gouged their eyes out with Oedipus glasses for fear that this team would be unwatchable without Jae and DJO.
Vander would get drafted this year if he declared, guaranteed. Probably second round, but he has enough size (more than DJO or Jerel) and length, can get to the rack, and most important has shown the willingness and ability to improve his game, which means his potential is something that has been proven to be tangible, unlike many one-and-done types that declare simply because they played in the Mickey D's game.
I sincerely hope he comes back, but if he goes, I wouldn't blame him at all.
Nothing is guaranteed in life, least of all NBA players being drafted. I would think someone that is guaranteed to be drafted would have made all Big East first team.
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Just hope he doesn't waste his summer and come back improved. He should be on the gym now, working on that jay. Someone go check?
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My source says Chris Otule is not returning. It's just what I have been hearing around the office.
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I have a gut feeling that he is gone. He came in to Marquette extremely confident in his abilities and he expected to be a one-and-done type player. I still think he is extremely confident, and rightfully so after this past season, and will declare for the draft. Couple that confidence with a weak draft class, and I think he will be leaving. I would love to have him back for one more year to see how much more he can improve, but if he does decide to leave, we have so much depth at that position that it wouldn't worry me too much.
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Late first round or second round picks this year should be traded...
I just don't see vander sticking in the league. We all watched jerel play and if he can barely make a squad there is no way vander does.
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Any word on Mayo's landin' spot?
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Nothing is guaranteed in life, least of all NBA players being drafted. I would think someone that is guaranteed to be drafted would have made all Big East first team.
College accolades don't get you drafted. Ask Scottie Reynolds. In such a woeful draft year, Vander is in an ideal situation to declare. I hope he doesn't, but he has the right frame, has proven his potential is real and not just a leftover high school evaluation, and is a sophomore in terms of age.
And seriously...the Big East first team? So you're saying Jack Cooley, Russ Smith, and Bryce Cotton are better NBA prospects than Vander?
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The reason he goes is because he can defend which he stressed from day 1 and has shown improvement in his shot which means he will probably continue to improve. The NBA coaches would rather have a ready made defender, eg. JFB. There are plenty who can score but few who play great D from the onset. Late 1st round maybe earlier in my opinion
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I have a gut feeling that he is gone. He came in to Marquette extremely confident in his abilities and he expected to be a one-and-done type player. I still think he is extremely confident, and rightfully so after this past season, and will declare for the draft. Couple that confidence with a weak draft class, and I think he will be leaving. I would love to have him back for one more year to see how much more he can improve, but if he does decide to leave, we have so much depth at that position that it wouldn't worry me too much.
I would throw my name in without an agent. That way he hedges his bet. He needs another year, so do a lot of guys (Zeller, etc). The draft is weak, but I don't see how he is guaranteed to be drafted. If it were held today, he would not be drafted. We've done a few interviews with Draft Express over the years. One of my buddies is a scout for the service and covers some of the western states areas. They do not have him drafted at all but it's been about 2 weeks since I spoke to him. Yes, Vander had a nice tournament but so did a lot of guys. DE has him in top 50 prospects, but not in the mock draft partially because of needs of teams and size. There are bigs that are taken ahead of him because 6'3" guys are plentiful.
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College accolades don't get you drafted. Ask Scottie Reynolds. In such a woeful draft year, Vander is in an ideal situation to declare. I hope he doesn't, but he has the right frame, has proven his potential is real and not just a leftover high school evaluation, and is a sophomore in terms of age.
And seriously...the Big East first team? So you're saying Jack Cooley, Russ Smith, and Bryce Cotton are better NBA prospects than Vander?
No, they are not better prospects, but it goes to show that Vander's inconsistency, which is a weakness for him, couldn't propel him near the top of his own league in terms of personal honors.
I have no problem with him declaring, just don't sign an agent. He has potential, they all do. I just don't see him getting drafted, but I've lost and won a few of those bets here over the years. ;D
I hope whatever he does, it works out well for him. In some ways, it's unfortunate the draft is as poor as it is because there are some guys that are going to declare that aren't ready yet, but timing is everything.
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Definitely not a 1st round pick. Might be mid to late 2nd round, or not. His mom should tell him to get his degree.
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What's with the 6'3'? A few years ago Vander said he was close to 6'5".
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I hope whatever he does, it works out well for him. In some ways, it's unfortunate the draft is as poor as it is because there are some guys that are going to declare that aren't ready yet, but timing is everything.
Guys who aren't ready declare every year. Strong draft, weak draft, makes no difference.
I have a wager for you. I'll bet you Vander Blue plays more games in the NBA than Jerel McNeal. You can name the stakes.
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Lenny
I am with you 100%. IMO your wager is a winner.
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What's the wager?
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Guys who aren't ready declare every year. Strong draft, weak draft, makes no difference.
I have a wager for you. I'll bet you Vander Blue plays more games in the NBA than Jerel McNeal. You can name the stakes.
I think Vander will as well, so no thanks on that bet.
This year, more guys will declare as unready because they are trying to slot themselves in ahead of next year's draft.
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What's with the 6'3'? A few years ago Vander said he was close to 6'5".
MU says he is 6'4" and unless things have changed since I worked that, I deduct an inch. ;D
http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/marq-m-baskbl-mtt.html
6'4" in shoes.
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I think Vander will as well, so no thanks on that bet.
I thought you were rather bearish on Vander's NBA future. You now expect him to make the league?
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Lenny
Chico's is looking forward to seeing Vander back for senior season. He and 98% of posters think Blue will fail and end up in Europe.
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I thought you were rather bearish on Vander's NBA future. You now expect him to make the league?
In all honesty Lenny, I think a lot of times you don't read what I say or parse things. Sorry, that's my perception.
I have said a few times here that I think Vander has a NBA future, I just don't think he's ready now because he is inconsistent on his shot and his handle. He's not consistent enough to play the 2, and not a good enough handle to play the point. It's all about timing....I truly believe he could be a first rounder next year, despite the stronger draft. Coming out now, I don't know if he even gets drafted.
I'm just skeptical of him going into the league this year....next year is a different story.
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MU says he is 6'4" and unless things have changed since I worked that, I deduct an inch. ;D
http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/marq-m-baskbl-mtt.html
6'4" in shoes.
and deduct an inch off of every other player/team as well....
i don't follow the nba much, but believe 1st round is the only guaranteed money...if i'm right on that...i'd imagine a lot of 2nd round picks are going to be cut/d-leagued pretty quickly this year.
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No, they are not better prospects, but it goes to show that Vander's inconsistency, which is a weakness for him, couldn't propel him near the top of his own league in terms of personal honors.
Absolutely incorrect. Unless you are going to say it was Dion Waiters' inconsistency that kept him off the Big East First Team before getting drafted 4th overall, ahead of anyone on the first team (including NBA draft picks Jeremy Lamb, Jae Crowder, Darius Johnson-Odom, and Kris Joseph).
The two things are not related. NBA potential and draft likelihood is not based on college accolades. Often the two coincide, but at best they are a correlation. Just look at the Naismith Award winners over the past 20 years. Some were superstars (Durant, Duncan, Griffin) but more were guys that had pedestrian NBA careers if that (Smith, Battier, Redick, Martin, etc).
Vander's position on the Big East Second Team won't register for a single solitary second with any NBA scout.
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In all honesty Lenny, I think a lot of times you don't read what I say or parse things. Sorry, that's my perception.
Sorry, but your perception is incorrect.
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I don't think it is a stretch nor unwise for Vander to declare for the draft, especially if he is hearing from people that he trusts that he will get drafted. He plays larger than McNeal ( for those comparing the two) and larger than 6-4. He plays above the rim, is athletic, quick and plays great defense (and hits the boards). He is young for a junior as well. Remember two important things....the NBA game is just plain different and what Vander lacks at the college level (consistent outside shot in a half court game) is not necessarily as relevant in the NBA AND the NBA drafts for future development after about the 12th pick.
Think about it from Vander's perspective...from a pure basketball perspective what would he gain in his senior year at MU that would be greater than a year on an NBA roster (and bench) if his goal is to be there anyway? Take away the distractions of school, campus life, whatever and focus on his dream while practicing against pro ballers every day. That all assumes he lands as the last spot or so on a roster which I don't think is a stretch. His name recognition following this tourney may never be greater in terms of awareness so why not test the waters and if it looks probable, declare?
Selfishly I want him at MU next year but to suggest he has no chance, in my opinion, isn't accurate when you look at the NBA game. Compare Wes and McNeal.....you knew Mathews would be more likely to get to the association on size alone....Vander has way more physical and athletic traits the NBA looks for than some of us might admit.
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His draft stock might never be higher. He very well may not improve if he comes back...especially if he has to play the point and struggles.
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Terror
Right on, my friend!
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Buzz I'm certain is hittin' the recruitin' trail on Tuesday.
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His draft stock might never be higher. He very well may not improve if he comes back...especially if he has to play the point and struggles.
Could be...but others may think that and declare early thinking it is a weak draft, taking out competition for next year's draft. Vander is young, played some point this year and will no doubt improve his shot even more. With a potential Top 10 team returning, he may be better off dipping his toe, and pulling back. A toe dip gets his personal athletic stats out there this year, building his hype with more national acclaim to follow.
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I hope I'm wrong but I do not see him ever holding on to a roster spot on an nba team for longer than a couple months.
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His draft stock might never be higher. He very well may not improve if he comes back...especially if he has to play the point and struggles.
I agree with this. How can it be higher?
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Absolutely incorrect. Unless you are going to say it was Dion Waiters' inconsistency that kept him off the Big East First Team before getting drafted 4th overall, ahead of anyone on the first team (including NBA draft picks Jeremy Lamb, Jae Crowder, Darius Johnson-Odom, and Kris Joseph).
The two things are not related. NBA potential and draft likelihood is not based on college accolades. Often the two coincide, but at best they are a correlation. Just look at the Naismith Award winners over the past 20 years. Some were superstars (Durant, Duncan, Griffin) but more were guys that had pedestrian NBA careers if that (Smith, Battier, Redick, Martin, etc).
Vander's position on the Big East Second Team won't register for a single solitary second with any NBA scout.
An NBA scout will wonder how consistently he brings it. The voters of the All Big East teams felt there were players that brought it more consistently than Vander, thus he made the 2nd team.
I agree college accolades don't mean anything about draft status, I'm talking consistency which is applicable to both.
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His draft stock might never be higher. He very well may not improve if he comes back...especially if he has to play the point and struggles.
According to the draft experts, it's the other way around...his prospects are better in 2014.
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Vander wanted to be one and done, and admitted that recently. He came to MU to major in ball and received his degree in three years. Up to him to decide on how to use the next year. Really cannot believe anyone is surprised that he might go.
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Vander will earn his degree in 3 years?
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Vander will earn his degree in 3 years?
In basketball. Goose was carrying out the metaphor.
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Norm
Was saying he came to MU because of basketball and getting to NBA, not engineering. He might have got all he wanted out of school and ready to move on.
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I sense that some of you are worried about the outlook of next year's team without Blue, causing you to make a case for him to stay.
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I sense that some of you are worried about the outlook of next year's team without Blue, causing you to make a case for him to stay.
Not me, if he's ready he's ready. Not worrying about next year's team. I guess my beliefs are consistent with the mock drafts out there, I don't see how he gets drafted THIS YEAR, but you never know. I think next year he becomes a first rounder.
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I want him to return big time and hope that is the case. If not, Buzz moves on and grooms another guy for NBA.
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Not me, if he's ready he's ready. Not worrying about next year's team. I guess my beliefs are consistent with the mock drafts out there, I don't see how he gets drafted THIS YEAR, but you never know. I think next year he becomes a first rounder.
Draft Express doesn't think that the not even honorable mention All Big 10 player Mitch McGary is even a second rounder. From what I see he's a lottery pick if he comes out.
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Not me, if he's ready he's ready. Not worrying about next year's team. I guess my beliefs are consistent with the mock drafts out there, I don't see how he gets drafted THIS YEAR, but you never know. I think next year he becomes a first rounder.
Next year, yes he should be a lock to be drafted and have a good chance to be a 1st rounder. Everyone keeps mentioning how Jerel never has stuck in the league, saying Blue is similar. You can compare stats and how they have similar builds, but Jerel never led us out of the 2nd round once. Vander has been a key contributor on 2 sweet 16 teams and now was the leader on an Elite 8 team and made multiple clutch shots to help us win. Scouts love guys who show up in the tourney and have the clutch gene. Something has seemed to change since Wes saw success after going undrafted. Scouts have stopped overlooking MU players. Lazar and Jimmy were both 1st rounders (both of them the 30th pick) and I was not confident about either of them being drafted. Jae has also helped raise that profile with the success he's seen even as a 2nd rounder last year. In my opinion Vander would be drafted and I'm confident he would be top 40. He may be a 2nd rounder meaning he doesn't get a guaranteed contract, but his work ethic and skills should help him stick. Maybe it does work out, maybe it doesn't and he's released after a few months. Maybe it is smarter to wait until next year. It's up to him, but I'm confident he'd be drafted.
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Draft Express doesn't think not even honorable mention All Big 10 player Mitch McGary is even a second rounder. From what I see he's a lottery pick if he comes out.
A lottery pick that averaged 7.4 points per game ::)
Maybe you need a bigger sample size, which is what NBA GMs and Draft Express will be doing....7 of the previous 9 games leading into the tournament less than 10 points per game, including 2 against IU, 0 against Penn State, then 4 against Penn State, etc. He tends to disappear a bunch in games. He's having a wonderful tournament, so are a lot of guys.
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Draft Express doesn't think that the not even honorable mention All Big 10 player Mitch McGary is even a second rounder. From what I see he's a lottery pick if he comes out.
McGary didn't do crap until the tournament. He literally came out of nowhere in these tourney games. Only averaged 7 points and 6 boards in the regular season.
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Draft Express has Vander listed at #21 in the 2014 draft...one spot above Hardaway. Why wouldn't he throw his hat in the ring during the early entry process and withdraw if interest is not there for 2013?
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2014/
That mock draft begins with four high school players - guys who aren't even draft-eligible. Hardly a fair assessment.
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A lottery pick that averaged 7.4 points per game ::)
Laugh all you want. If he comes out I say he's a lottery pick. How much would you like to wager?
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A lottery pick that averaged 7.4 points per game ::)
Yeah...NBA look at nothing but cumulative stats over a freshman year.
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Yep, big man's game.
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I don't get the whole thing with the stationary. Why remove a succcesful player from promotional materials either way?
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Yeah...NBA look at nothing but cumulative stats over a freshman year.
And they're supposed to ignore his body of work and throw millions of dollars and a draft selection around what someone does in 5 games?
Not many GMs last long with that kind of thinking. Did you see Butler players going in the first round, let alone lottery picks, despite having great NCAA tournaments a few years ago? As a GM I would want to know with your size and ability, how did you score 6 points total in two games against Penn State University? I would want to know why you scored only 2 points against the juggernaut that is Nebraska basketball? Or 2 points against Bradley, Indiana, West Virginia, Pitt or the other juggernaut, IUPUI? I would want to know why in two games against Northwestern, you got 10 points total.
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Laugh all you want. If he comes out I say he's a lottery pick. How much would you like to wager?
Well, first off, if he is a lottery pick this year, which is exactly what you are suggesting, he is a fool not to come out. Michigan guys are smart. So I'll take the bet, but I should win if he doesn't even come out because then he's admitting (along with his peeps) that he wasn't good enough to be a lottery pick. No way a lottery pick stays in....so if you are willing to TRULY back what you are saying and you win if he is a lottery pick, I win if he isn't (which includes not even coming out), then you have a bet.
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And they're supposed to ignore his body of work and throw millions of dollars and a draft selection around what someone does in 5 games?
Not many GMs last long with that kind of thinking. Did you see Butler players going in the first round, let alone lottery picks, despite having great NCAA tournaments a few years ago? As a GM I would want to know with your size and ability, how did you score 6 points total in two games against Penn State University? I would want to know why you scored only 2 points against the juggernaut that is Nebraska basketball? Or 2 points against Bradley, Indiana, West Virginia, Pitt or the other juggernaut, IUPUI? I would want to know why in two games against Northwestern, you got 10 points total.
See Hayward, Gordon
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Yep, big man's game.
Trey Burke, National POY
Guard
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John Hammond will draft him
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See Hayward, Gordon
Touche
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Joe Alexander
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Well, first off, if he is a lottery pick this year, which is exactly what you are suggesting, he is a fool not to come out. Michigan guys are smart. So I'll take the bet, but I should win if he doesn't even come out because then he's admitting (along with his peeps) that he wasn't good enough to be a lottery pick. No way a lottery pick stays in....so if you are willing to TRULY back what you are saying and you win if he is a lottery pick, I win if he isn't (which includes not even coming out), then you have a bet.
I said what I said. If he comes out, he a lottery pick. If he doesn't we'll never know. You really expect to be paid if he decides to stay in school? Lot's of guys who would be lottery picks opt out of the draft. Your boy Cody did last year.
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Joe Alexander
And of course, the Bucks drafted him.
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McGary is from Indiana. Chicos is upset that Crean cooled on him.
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JC, McGary trailin' on the break is a game breaker.
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Cream whiffed on him
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Think Beilein will claim McGary couldn't make a layup when he arrived on campus like Crean did with Bob Jackson?
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Trey Burke, National POY
Guard
Championships are won with big men. See Monday's game with Dieng vs McGary
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Championships are won with big men. See Monday's game with Dieng vs McGary
How tall was Kimba Walker?
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I said what I said. If he comes out, he a lottery pick. If he doesn't we'll never know. You really expect to be paid if he decides to stay in school? Lot's of guys who would be lottery picks opt out of the draft. Your boy Cody did last year.
I'd expect a lottery pick to average 15 points per game, not 7. I'd want to know why he disappeared in half their games this year. Is it desire? Lack of it? Maybe the NBA will engineer the brutal Nebraska, IUPUI, Penn State defense around him to slow him down from his future Hall of Fame career (I'm teasing, I think the kid is good, really good, but he is so inconsistent it's incredible)
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McGary looks like the second coming of Dave Cowens.
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How tall was Kimba Walker?
Kemba
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McGary is from Indiana. Chicos is upset that Crean cooled on him.
I was worried Crean was going to give him Isaiah Thomas jersey number, so we dodged one there.
McGary chose UM over Duke, Florida, Kentucky and UNC.
IU recruited him for the 2011 class, but McGary reclassified to 2012 and they were already over signed. He also flunked his junior year of high school and had to repeat the year entirely...not the sharpest bulb (that's why he is at UM ;D )
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Think Beilein will claim McGary couldn't make a layup when he arrived on campus like Crean did with Bob Jackson?
And yet Bob Jackson still tweeting about his former coach....crazy. They've all been fooled apparently. Diener, Bob, Dwyane, Steve, etc...all fooled.
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Lotta folks were fooled. Not Wes, though.
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Lotta folks were fooled. Not Wes, though.
Apparently still fooled....per comments last week from some of those same guys. Hopefully they come to Scoop and the folks here that spent maybe 24 hours with him can set them straight and the minutes, hours, days, months, years they spent with him can be trumped. That's really our only hope that the national nightmare ends.
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And yet Bob Jackson still tweeting about his former coach....crazy. They've all been fooled apparently. Diener, Bob, Dwyane, Steve, etc...all fooled.
did he leave (in a ridiculous manner) diener, bob, dwyane, steve???
heck, there were rutgers players defending rice this week.
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How tall was Kimba Walker?
Only 6'1, and if I remember correctly he led UConn to a title winning me $200 in my bracket.
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Apparently still fooled....per comments last week from some of those same guys. Hopefully they come to Scoop and the folks here that spent maybe 24 hours with him can set them straight and the minutes, hours, days, months, years they spent with him can be trumped. That's really our only hope that the national nightmare ends.
but you admit he's a prick...so what's your point?
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Chicos Man, I love you like a brother. But, we ain't never gonna agree on Crean or big men vs guards.
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but you admit he's a prick...so what's your point?
My point is to you, me, 4ever, etc, he's a prick. To people that give their blood, sweat, tears, and essentially their lives...he has a different appeal. People need to recognize that. Haven't you ever had a boss that was just a whale of a douche and then you find out through the grapevine in out of office hours he's practically a saint....donating time, money, etc for causes, etc?
Lots of people are pricks, lots of those same people are universally loved by those that know them best. Rather interesting.
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I'd expect a lottery pick to average 15 points per game, not 7. I'd want to know why he disappeared in half their games this year. Is it desire? Lack of it? Maybe the NBA will engineer the brutal Nebraska, IUPUI, Penn State defense around him to slow him down from his future Hall of Fame career (I'm teasing, I think the kid is good, really good, but he is so inconsistent it's incredible)
Never said he would be a hall of famer, never said he was consistent this year. That's all blah blah, blah. All I said was he's a lottery pick if he comes out. Put up or....
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The 12th St. college I attended taught me to judge people by their actions and not by their words. Crean is a constant contradiction. Moreover, he thinks he's fooling everyone.
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Chicos Man, I love you like a brother. But, we ain't never gonna agree on Crean or big men vs guards.
I think we agree on Crean more than you think. My point is that those that know him best, actually love him. Just like most here would say Jim Harbaugh is a prick, many of his players would run through a brick wall for him. Mike Ditka, etc, etc. Lots of guys like that.
On big men and guards, you are right...we won't agree. Guards game, especially the last 20 years.
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My point is to you, me, 4ever, etc, he's a prick. To people that give their blood, sweat, tears, and essentially their lives...he has a different appeal. People need to recognize that. Haven't you ever had a boss that was just a whale of a douche and then you find out through the grapevine in out of office hours he's practically a saint....donating time, money, etc for causes, etc?
Lots of people are pricks, lots of those same people are universally loved by those that know them best. Rather interesting.
yup...and as a boss...i make sure i'm good to those that i meet for 5 min. and those that i've known for 5 years. and never would i treat my wife and kids the way i observed him do so.
rather interesting that the people he seems to associate with are those that can do something for him...then when he doesn't need them any longer he plays them like a wes, dj, or mcneal.
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Never said he would be a hall of famer, never said he was consistent this year. That's all blah blah, blah. All I said was he's a lottery pick if he comes out. Put up or....
That's why I said I was teasing...remember that post a few pages ago where I said you don't read everything and only parts...you said that wasn't the case.
Ahem.
It is the case.
Sure, I'll jump on your bet, even though I'd be stunned if he comes out because he isn't a lottery pick. But sure, whatever.
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yup...and as a boss...i make sure i'm good to those that i meet for 5 min. and those that i've known for 5 years. and never would i treat my wife and kids the way i observed him do so.
rather interesting that the people he seems to associate with are those that can do something for him...then when he doesn't need them any longer he plays them like a wes, dj, or mcneal.
His wife and kids, what are you talking about?
Interesting that some of his former players that didn't amount to much in college still associate with him, despite them "not doing anything for him". People see what they want to see.
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Referencin' personal observation of Coach Crean at Mequon CC where he was a waiter.
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IU recruited him for the 2011 class, but McGary reclassified to 2012 and they were already over signed. He also flunked his junior year of high school and had to repeat the year entirely...not the sharpest bulb (that's why he is at UM ;D )
Susie Lee Weiss just read this and freaked...
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Wife and kids ignoring Dad at 8? That's a shame!
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PRN and 4ever need to tone down their acts. Beyond tacky... Not to mention simply disgusting. Moderators, you need to control these two. All those innuendoes. ::)
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Never said he would be a hall of famer, never said he was consistent this year. That's all blah blah, blah. All I said was he's a lottery pick if he comes out. Put up or....
A semi-tall white guy who only had a few great games and can't make free throws? Not happening.
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yup...and as a boss...i make sure i'm good to those that i meet for 5 min. and those that i've known for 5 years. and never would i treat my wife and kids the way i observed him do so.
rather interesting that the people he seems to associate with are those that can do something for him...then when he doesn't need them any longer he plays them like a wes, dj, or mcneal.
So many people have been beating this drum for so many years here. The guy's a phony with a capital ph in addition to being a douche, but that won't stop a few here from defending him at every turn.
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For what it's worth, I've heard from two different people in Madison that Vander is leaving. One that is close to Memorial said that NBA teams have called old HS/ AAU coaches, doing background checks.
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So many people have been beating this drum for so many years here. The guy's a phony with a capital ph in addition to being a douche, but that won't stop a few here from defending him at every turn.
A lot of douches have done a lot of good things. It's nice to know we're generally on the receiving end of all of his.
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For what it's worth, I've heard from two different people in Madison that Vander is leaving. One that is close to Memorial said that NBA teams have called old HS/ AAU coaches, doing background checks.
No one should ever leave early w/out a guarantee of being a lottery pick. And no one should even consider leaving unless they are guaranteed a first round pick. I'm sure some teams have called, but that just means they are doing their job.
He has a chance to be a mid 1st round pick next year, possibly better, and it would be foolish to throw that away. Anything less than a 1st round pick would be a disaster for him. Non-guaranteed money is no money.
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No one should ever leave early w/out a guarantee of being a lottery pick. And no one should even consider leaving unless they are guaranteed a first round pick. I'm sure some teams have called, but that just means they are doing their job.
He has a chance to be a mid 1st round pick next year, possibly better, and it would be foolish to throw that away. Anything less than a 1st round pick would be a disaster for him. Non-guaranteed money is no money.
He should talk to DJO about being a late second round pick and how that works out.
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Homer here.
Love Vander...his improvement and maturity one of the great stories in Marquette history..not to mention sweet 16, sweet 16, and elite 8 in his three years. Don't see that he would be drafted this year, so don't see him leaving. but if he did and did, it would be just one more surprise in a the greatest year of surprises since I started doing games in 1989.
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A typically meandering thread that typically led back to Chicos' love of Crean. Ya gotta love our consistency here on Scoop!
As for the original purpose of this thread ...
Few of us are arguing about whether Vander Blue is NBA ready. He came out of high school as one of the most highly touted Marquette recruits since Al's days and yet he wasn't NCAA ready. And the transition to the NBA is similarly difficult; some would say even more difficult. Of course he isn't ready! Lots of guys who went on to have very good NBA careers struggled out of the gate.
Yes, Vander could use another year of college. He needs to increase his shooting range, needs to prove he can play at least some PG, needs improvement in pretty much every area.
Having said all that, none of it matters if Vander himself thinks he is ready. Every single year, 5, 10, 15 guys -- maybe more -- leave college who logically should have stayed. Many go undrafted and are never heard from again. Some go in the second round, get a chance but can't stick because second-rounders don't have guaranteed contracts and thus don't get the same leash that first-round draft picks get. Illinois' Frank Williams was a very good college player who couldn't play in the NBA. Period. But he did get drafted near the end of the first round and, because of that, he was able to collect a payday for three years. Had he been a second-rounder, he might not have survived training camp. Lazar Hayward looks to be another example of that exact same scenario. DJO, at least as good a college player as Vander, was drafted in the second round and now he's in basketball Siberia.
As for those guaranteeing that he will or won't be drafted either this year or next ... that's all just noise. Do any of us know how many European players will be in this draft? Do any of us even know how many NCAA players will be in this draft, given that it's still more than a week before the deadline for underclassmen to declare? Will there be a glut of guards this year? Are GMs especially keen on filling needs for size this year? Come on, folks, we don't operate in a vacuum here. We know Vander but we don't have great knowledge about so many other variables.
My bottom line on Vander:
1. I hope Vander stays. Heck of a college player who probably will get better and help us have a great season in 2013-14.
2. I think he'd be wise to stay and improve. If he's good enough, no matter how much better next year's draft supposedly will be, he'll get a chance.
3. I'm quite sure Vander doesn't care what I think or what any other Scooper thinks. He might not even care what most NBA draft experts think or what Buzz thinks or what any external voice says. All that matters in the end is what he thinks. He's a confident enough guy that he repeatedly took game-deciding shots in our biggest games. I'm guessing he's also confident enough to think he will succeed in the NBA no matter what anybody says.
4. I don't know if he'll be drafted and neither do you. Neither does Vander, but that might not stop him from leaving.
5. If he leaves, we'll wonder how we'll replace him. But we will replace him and have a good season in 2013-14. Maybe even a great season.
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Homer
I have heard you say you pull hard for Vander and happy to see your post. He really did make unreal improvement and became a great leader. Hope you right on him staying. If I had to bet I would say he is gone. Stay or leave I will keep closer eye on Blue than any MU player since Wade. He has chance for great senior year and I believe a long NBA career.
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Selfishly I want to see Blue back, but here are a few things to consider that could make entering the draft a better decision.
1) What if he gets injured?
2) What if he or the team doesn't perform to expectations, in the season or in the tourney, and his stock is impacted because of it? (very unlikely, and no one would be to blame but him or the team)
3) Next year's draft is looking a lot stronger, which could lower his stock in favor of higher ranked players.
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A typically meandering thread that typically led back to Chicos' love of Crean. Ya gotta love our consistency here on Scoop!
Let me fix it for you.
The thread was fine, 90 posts strong and then someone, who still hasn't gotten over what happened 5 years ago, introduced him into the thread. Then another at post 92. Then another at post 93...all page 4. Go after them if you don't like it. I didn't mention a word of it until page 5....people read what they want to read. It's kind of funny.
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Selfishly I want to see Blue back, but here are a few things to consider that could make entering the draft a better decision.
1) What if he gets injured?
2) What if he or the team doesn't perform to expectations, in the season or in the tourney, and his stock is impacted because of it? (very unlikely, and no one would be to blame but him or the team)
3) Next year's draft is looking a lot stronger, which could lower his stock in favor of higher ranked players.
1. Seriously injured? Could get an extra year of eligibility. The risk of coming out too early and being a 2nd rounder, or even worse, undrafted is pretty large as well. I think Vander needs to have a team willing to let him transition. A 2nd rounder would be scary and he would probably have a better shot through going undrafted.
2. Partly his fault then. I think he think's that he's better than that to let that happen. Also, Buzz Williams will be coaching.
3. Was he ever really going to compete with the top of either year's draft?
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1. Seriously injured? Could get an extra year of eligibility. The risk of coming out too early and being a 2nd rounder, or even worse, undrafted is pretty large as well. I think Vander needs to have a team willing to let him transition. A 2nd rounder would be scary and he would probably have a better shot through going undrafted.
We're all Wesley Matthews fans, but this whole "better off undrafted" argument is just getting silly. I'm not going to run the numbers for the hundreds of NBA players, but I will bet anything there are more guys in the league that were second round picks than undrafted and there is a much higher percentage of second round picks still in the league than college players that went undrafted.
Saying you're better off going undrafted is like saying you have a better chance of attending the royal wedding as a crasher than you do with an invitation. Yes, it worked for Matthews, but that is by and large the exception and not the rule.
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Let me fix it for you.
The thread was fine, 90 posts strong and then someone, who still hasn't gotten over what happened 5 years ago, introduced him into the thread. Then another at post 92. Then another at post 93...all page 4. Go after them if you don't like it. I didn't mention a word of it until page 5....people read what they want to read. It's kind of funny.
yup. you're absolutely right. but you didn't have to respond to them. you could have just let it go, but you chose to make an argument out of it. yes, those posters could also have chosen not to post what they did, but you were the one who retaliated and continued.
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3) Next year's draft is looking a lot stronger, which could lower his stock in favor of higher ranked players.
Not sure I agree with this. (Note: the next few paragraphs are subject to change if players declare early and depending on the source, obviously.)
If Vander decided to declare this year and if his goal was just to get drafted, his second round competition would be guys like Brandon Paul (projected at #54 overall by Draft Express), Michael Snaer (#51), and C.J. Wilcox (#46)... not to mention guys projected to go undrafted like Brandon Triche and Seth Curry. And those are just the 2nd rounders. Is that really an easier group of SGs to get drafted out of than the 2014 class?
Draft express has Vander projected at #21 overall in 2014, with IMO a comparatively weak SG class below him (I like Tim Hardaway Jr., but Vander shouldn't be too scared of the rest...Jerian Grant from Notre Dame, two international players from Poland and Spain, Spencer Dinwiddie from Colorado, Ricky Ledo from Providence, and Jordan McRae from Tennessee). And the guys projected ahead of him in the first round aren't superstars: Rasheed Sulaimon (incoming frosh at Duke), P.J. Hairston (UNC), Kentavious Caldwell-Pope (awesome name...Georgia), Gary Harris (MSU), Aaron Harrison (HS senior), and a few international players I've never heard of.
If I'm a SG and comparing the draft classes, I'd much rather be in the 2014 class.
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It makes sense that this thread is started by someone with just three posts.
+1
It never ceases to amaze me that people don't see that, and then stop reading. Page after page goes by of all kinds of posts. It works every time. I stopped reading this thread after this post.
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+1
It never ceases to amaze me that people don't see that, and then stop reading. Page after page goes by of all kinds of posts. It works every time. I stopped reading this thread after this post.
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And I can't wait to message you after Vander declares with a picture of my middle finger next to my hard dick
Is it me or did it just get weird in here?
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Homer here.
Love Vander...his improvement and maturity one of the great stories in Marquette history..not to mention sweet 16, sweet 16, and elite 8 in his three years. Don't see that he would be drafted this year, so don't see him leaving. but if he did and did, it would be just one more surprise in a the greatest year of surprises since I started doing games in 1989.
Homer - Can you tell me if Buzz got the nets after the Syracuse loss for our Elite Eight display case?
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I suppose you could argue that someone with only three posts should be taken MORE seriously than someone with a bunch. Why? Well, couldn't it be that the information is so valuable, so important and reliable that someone who usually only lurks in the shadows on Scoop actually thought it appropriate to actually get an account and make a post?
Not sure that # of posts makes a difference either way. Seems too ad hominem an attack for me. Besides, if you're looking for someone's "scoopness," date registered seems like a better measure.
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Is it me or did it just get weird in here?
Thanks for saving that quote before it got deleted.
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Boom goes the ban hammer.
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Is it me or did it just get weird in here?
We now know for sure that wrk592 is NOT Chicos. Impossible.
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Is it me or did it just get weird in here?
If I've learned anything from Brent Farva, it's that it is only weird if you aren't wearing your Crocs when you take that sort of picture.
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Vander needs to watch this episode of Fresh Prince specifically at the 21:15 mark. I think it'd give him some advice as to why he should stay.
http://pollystreaming.com/The-Fresh-Prince-of-Bel-Air-My-Brother8217s-Keeper-Episode-39-Season-2_v3188
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Vander needs to watch this episode of Fresh Prince specifically at the 21:15 mark. I think it'd give him some advice as to why he should stay.
http://pollystreaming.com/The-Fresh-Prince-of-Bel-Air-My-Brother8217s-Keeper-Episode-39-Season-2_v3188
Time to turn off the internet. Our work here is done.
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We now know for sure that wrk592 is NOT Chicos. Impossible.
lmfao.
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I love how Paint Touches and Anonymous Eagle aren't giving me any credit for breaking this story.
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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We now know for sure that wrk592 is NOT Chicos. .
And with a millisecond of "research" it is pretty easy to verify he is a student.
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And with a millisecond of "research" it is pretty easy to verify he is a student.
congrats on 1800 !
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And with a millisecond of "research" it is pretty easy to verify he is a student.
And terrible at rigging elections
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congrats on 1800 !
?
nm
Posts. Took me a second. And despite my high post total, I don't know crap.
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?
nm
Posts. Took me a second. And despite my high post total, I don't know crap.
Post total is inversely related to penis size.
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And terrible at rigging elections
lol, that election was stolen from me.
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Post total is inversely related to penis size.
Isn't Skat a chick, or am I having a senior moment? If that's correct, does 3,200+ posts = 0
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BTW, Van's latest tweet: "For every dark night.....there is a brighter day." Hidden meanings?
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Isn't Skat a chick, or am I having a senior moment?
You are having a senior moment.
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BTW, Van's latest tweet: "For every dark night.....there is a brighter day." Hidden meanings?
He finally saw the end of the newest Batman movie.
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Carter-Williams of the Cuse leaving. Another first rounder. More to follow.
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I've been one of the biggest Vander supporters since day 1, but Vander is NOT a 1st round pick. Be smart Van, and come back one more year.
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Vander is very similar to Wes. Look at the numbers Wes only shot 33% from three his junior year compared to vanders 30%. But Vander also scored 14.8 compared to Wes's 11.8. Vander is on a very similar path as Wes and I believe he could have the exact same outcome in the NBA.
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Vander is very similar to Wes. Look at the numbers Wes only shot 33% from three his junior year compared to vanders 30%. But Vander also scored 14.8 compared to Wes's 11.8. Vander is on a very similar path as Wes and I believe he could have the exact same outcome in the NBA.
Numbers don't tell the whole story there. Wes was very limited in Crean's offense. You could better see what he was capable of his senior year.
I think this year was as productive as Van will be offensively. He'll always be limited by the shotput jumper.
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http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9163283/a-look-college-underclassmen-decided-undecided-nba-draft-college-basketball
No mention of Blue in this.
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http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9163283/a-look-college-underclassmen-decided-undecided-nba-draft-college-basketball
No mention of Blue in this.
Van's not on anyone's radar at the moment other than for 2014.
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Van's not on anyone's radar at the moment other than for 2014.
Vander has next year to make his case:
Possible 1st Team All-BE
Possible BE POY
Possible Top-25 ranking for the whole season
Possible Top BE Finish
Possible Deep Run in March
Next year will definitely be his year; I don't think Buzz will be holding him back much like he let Zar, Jimmy, DJO, Jae, and Junior lead their teams during their senior campaigns.
2013-14 is The Year of the Blue
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Vander has next year to make his case:
Possible 1st Team All-BE
Possible BE POY
Possible Top-25 ranking for the whole season
Possible Top BE Finish
Possible Deep Run in March
Next year will definitely be his year; I don't think Buzz will be holding him back much like he let Zar, Jimmy, DJO, Jae, and Junior lead their teams during their senior campaigns.
2013-14 is The Year of the Blue
Lots of logic in this post.
Don't forget, though ... logic and common sense often have little to do with these decisions!
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I've said it before, if scouts and good talent evaluators agree he's a 1st rd lock he should go and never look back. I think his situation is one where he might be a 1st rd, he might be a 2nd rd, he might go undrafted. There's just a lot of uncertainty in this draft and draft class so it's hard to know what his "real" spot is going to be.
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The Bilastrator has him coming back....looks good for Marq, expectations will be high and disrespect card in shredder
http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9160600/bilas-index-jay-bilas-provides-top-25-teams-entering-2013-season-college-basketball (http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9160600/bilas-index-jay-bilas-provides-top-25-teams-entering-2013-season-college-basketball)
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Let me tell you guys why losing Vander is not end of this run.
THIS IS NOT THE MARQUETTE OF 2000-2006
We are now in a spot where we can absorb a loss of a star player to the NBA draft and still be in a good spot. We are almost at the point where we can just say "Next Man Up" If Blue goes which I think he will (I have no inside information just a hunch) their are a few things we need to remember
1. We lost two great players last year and we did okay
2. We Add another Marquette player into the NBA hopefully
3. The Badgers will add 3 new players to the Kazahkstani League A Basketball (see Badgers develop pros too ;D )
4.Immediate minutes for the likes of Jujuan (Can never remember his last name)
5. Helps recruiting when 3 years in a row a likely first round pick comes out of school.
I hope Blue stays. But if he does not.... Not the end of the world!
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I hope Blue stays. But if he does not.... Not the end of the world!
If Crean didn't get the three amigos, I think it would've been the end of the world!
I agree. With Buzz's rep and now with Chew on board, MU will be hitting the recruiting trail hard as card carrying back-to-back-to-back Sweet 16 coaches with a program on the ascent.
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Burke to announce he's NBA bound tomorrow per Jeff Goodman.
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Also per Goodman...
250 transfers so far. Expect 300.
How many d1 teams?
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347 but I would think most transfers are in the top 150 of college basketball teams
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Vander has next year to make his case:
Possible 1st Team All-BE
Possible BE POY
Possible Top-25 ranking for the whole season
Possible Top BE Finish
Possible Deep Run in March
Next year will definitely be his year; I don't think Buzz will be holding him back much like he let Zar, Jimmy, DJO, Jae, and Junior lead their teams during their senior campaigns.
2013-14 is The Year of the Blue
Don't forget possible All-American
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Let me tell you guys why losing Vander is not end of this run.
THIS IS NOT THE MARQUETTE OF 2000-2006
We are now in a spot where we can absorb a loss of a star player to the NBA draft and still be in a good spot. We are almost at the point where we can just say "Next Man Up" If Blue goes which I think he will (I have no inside information just a hunch) their are a few things we need to remember
1. We lost two great players last year and we did okay
2. We Add another Marquette player into the NBA hopefully
3. The Badgers will add 3 new players to the Kazahkstani League A Basketball (see Badgers develop pros too ;D )
4.Immediate minutes for the likes of Jujuan (Can never remember his last name)
5. Helps recruiting when 3 years in a row a likely first round pick comes out of school.
I hope Blue stays. But if he does not.... Not the end of the world!
#4 - It's Johnson.
#5 - It would be 4 years, not 3.
2010- Lazar
2011- Jimmy
2012- Jae
2013- Blue
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#4 - It's Johnson.
#5 - It would be 4 years, not 3.
2010- Lazar
2011- Jimmy
2012- Jae
2013- Blue
Jae wasn't a first-round pick.
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It's Jajuan, at least that's how he has it on his own twitter account. Davante is the other name I see consistently messed up. If you can't tell it's a pet peeve of mine. I'll shut up now.
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I still forget whether it was Lazar Haywood or Lazar Hayward
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I still forget whether it was Lazar Haywood or Lazar Hayward
Len? Is that you?
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It's Jajuan, at least that's how he has it on his own twitter account. Davante is the other name I see consistently messed up. If you can't tell it's a pet peeve of mine. I'll shut up now.
What about our great Irish hope, Chris O'Tule?
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What about our great Irish hope, Chris O'Tule?
Haha, good catch! I forgot about that one.
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#4 - It's Johnson.
#5 - It would be 4 years, not 3.
2010- Lazar
2011- Jimmy
2012- Jae
2013- Blue
Jae was in the middle 30's.
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What about our great Irish hope, Chris O'Tule?
He was Black Irish.
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Jae was in the middle 30's.
34 to be exact.
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He was Black Irish.
Kinda like Shaquile O'neal
or
Jermaine O'neil
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Jermaine O'Neal.
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Jae was in the middle 30's.
I know that, but he said, "This would be the third straight year we've had a LIKELY first round pick." Lazar, Jimmy, Jae, and now Vander were all LIKELY, meaning probable, first round picks in my opinion. Lazar and Jimmy both were first rounders, and I thought Jae was LIKELY to be one, but he ended up going in the early second. Same might happen with Vander, I think his stock will be higher than some of you think.
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I know that, but he said, "This would be the third straight year we've had a LIKELY first round pick." Lazar, Jimmy, Jae, and now Vander were all LIKELY, meaning probable, first round picks in my opinion. Lazar and Jimmy both were first rounders, and I thought Jae was LIKELY to be one, but he ended up going in the early second. Same might happen with Vander, I think his stock will be higher than some of you think.
Jae was never a likely first round pick. And if you're looking at it that way, Lazar and Jimmy were both surprise first round picks. Nobody expected them to be first rounders, just like nobody expects Vander to be a first rounder this year (still to be determined about next year). So I guess it'd be 4 years of having no likely first rounders?
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DJO was a first round pick... correct?
NVM, looked it up myself... #55 overall
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ESPN Article on to go or not to go? Vander is not mentioned:
http://espn.go.com/espn/print?id=9163283&type=story
Sorry - too long to post on scoop...
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ESPN Article on to go or not to go? Vander is not mentioned:
http://espn.go.com/espn/print?id=9163283&type=story
Sorry - too long to post on scoop...
Thank God Deonte Burton is returning!
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Thank God Deonte Burton is returning!
I hear his name all the time here in the desert!
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ESPN Article on to go or not to go? Vander is not mentioned:
http://espn.go.com/espn/print?id=9163283&type=story
Sorry - too long to post on scoop...
I thought that was odd. Either he's on the fence or coming back, and if he's not officially coming back just yet then he has to be on the fence and thus mentioned in this article. Maybe the author should have created a category of "coming back, probably."
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I thought that was odd. Either he's on the fence or coming back, and if he's not officially coming back just yet then he has to be on the fence and thus mentioned in this article. Maybe the author should have created a category of "coming back, probably."
I think the reality is that this author doesn't even consider Vander as a serious prospect to come out. Remember, Vander is still relatively unknown nationally, as much as that pains MU fans.
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I think the reality is that this author doesn't even consider Vander as a serious prospect to come out. Remember, Vander is still relatively unknown nationally, as much as that pains MU fans.
You know, before the tournament, I would have totally understood this argument. But what he did against Davidson (on top of similar last-second heroics against St. John's in the regular-season finale) was repeated on SportsCenter a gazillion times. Then he had a monster performance against Butler in a prime-time game that has been recognized as one of the tournament's best.
So even if most fans still don't know who Vander is (or that Marquette isn't in Michigan, for that matter), an "expert" writing an article like this certainly should.
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You know, before the tournament, I would have totally understood this argument. But what he did against Davidson (on top of similar last-second heroics against St. John's in the regular-season finale) was repeated on SportsCenter a gazillion times. Then he had a monster performance against Butler in a prime-time game that has been recognized as one of the tournament's best.
So even if most fans still don't know who Vander is (or that Marquette isn't in Michigan, for that matter), an "expert" writing an article like this certainly should.
Yes, I'm sure whoever wrote this article knows who Vander Blue is. He's not mentioned because no one thinks he should leave early. He will not be drafted if he chooses to leave this year.
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So what's the deal? Does anyone have any news on Vander? I know tomorrow is the deadline. Is he really waiting till the last minute to make a decision or is it a safe assumption to expect him back in blue and gold next year?
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So what's the deal? Does anyone have any news on Vander? I know tomorrow is the deadline. Is he really waiting till the last minute to make a decision or is it a safe assumption to expect him back in blue and gold next year?
+1
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So what's the deal? Does anyone have any news on Vander? I know tomorrow is the deadline. Is he really waiting till the last minute to make a decision or is it a safe assumption to expect him back in blue and gold next year?
Tomorrow is only the deadline to withdraw and keep his eligibility. At this point he has until the 28th to still enter, but there's no going back if he does.
Not sure if anyone knows where he's leaning at this point. Like I said earlier, I just hope whoever he's listening to is looking out for his best interests.
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So what's the deal? Does anyone have any news on Vander? I know tomorrow is the deadline. Is he really waiting till the last minute to make a decision or is it a safe assumption to expect him back in blue and gold next year?
Today/tomorrow is just the deadline for early entrants to declare AND still be able to come back to college game (assuming no agent). The actual early entrant deadline is 4/28 at 11:59pm. Thus, I believe Van still has time to declare, but if he does after tomorrow, Van would be committed to the draft... no backing out.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
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The deal is Vander Blue is not leaving Marquette unless he wants to play in Europe next year.
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Today/tomorrow is just the deadline for early entrants to declare AND still be able to come back to college game (assuming no agent). The actual early entrant deadline is 4/28 at 11:59pm. Thus, I believe Van still has time to declare, but if he does after tomorrow, Van would be committed to the draft... no backing out.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Right.
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Personally, as of this moment... I'm not buying in any more with the logic of "it's easier to get drafted this year since next year's class is stacked." Due to this logic, a lot of of guys have already declared early now who otherwise may not have... it's a supply/demand thing and there are only 60 picks... It swings the pedulum a bit. If he declared this year, Van would have to now get drafted over those players too. Also, I don't believe all of the "sure things" for next year's draft class will pan out.
Van can continue to market himself as something different (consistent and mature leader/scorer/defender)... he can differentiate himself vs less proven one-and-done talents. It doesn't have to appeal to all NBA teams, just one. God willing (without injuries), MU should be top 10-worthy most the year and Van can make himself even more of a household name. All of this exists while Van would be a young age for a four-year player.
Overall, I believe Van has a lot to gain by coming back, probably more than other players.
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The other board has someone stating an announcement of VB going pro comes tomorrow. Anyone here know anything more to confirm or deny?
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I would agree with that assessment.
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Burke, Porter, Len, Noel and Franklin just declared in last few days. McLemore is next with some others. All first rounders.
Vander will not be drafted in first round, will not have guarantee contract money and will be in NBDL.
If he goes, he is the one who made the decision, whether right or wrong, but it is his right or wrong. Best of luck, hopefully it works out and doesn't regret the decision for the rest of his life.
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He would tie up 30-35 min a game and it would have to be all about him next year. I feel that MU will be just as good if not better next year without Vander. It's just good to have more people that can play that spot rather than feel obligated to play someone the whole game who can't shoot from the outside and may not even care next year and would just be angry that he's stuck another year in college.
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Unfortunately Vander will make the wrong decision tomorrow and leave. Good luck Vander
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This does open the door for more minutes out of the newcomers, who are super talented. And sometimes when talented kids aren't playing, they leave. Long term, this might be a good thing for the program. We might not get to the final four next year, but if JJJ, DuWilson, and Burton are three or four-year players, we'll be a serious national title contender in a few years.
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Unfortunately Vander will make the wrong decision tomorrow and leave. Good luck Vander
Do you have inside information?
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Vander will not be announcing anything tomorrow.
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The guy saying this on the other board has 6 posts FWIW.
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He would tie up 30-35 min a game and it would have to be all about him next year. I feel that MU will be just as good if not better next year without Vander. It's just good to have more people that can play that spot rather than feel obligated to play someone the whole game who can't shoot from the outside and may not even care next year and would just be angry that he's stuck another year in college.
You are the worst
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Do you have inside information?
That's what I hear.
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He would tie up 30-35 min a game and it would have to be all about him next year. I feel that MU will be just as good if not better next year without Vander. It's just good to have more people that can play that spot rather than feel obligated to play someone the whole game who can't shoot from the outside and may not even care next year and would just be angry that he's stuck another year in college.
Disagree wholeheartedly with this. He has improved his shot every year, and he's a natural competitor. Plus, he'd be clawing tooth and nail for a first round contract. He'd know that a deep tourney run would do wonders in that regard. I feel like we'd get the kind of season you see from major sports stars in their contract year. Also, remember Jerel McNeal went from 30.4% 3P shooting his junior year to 39.8% his senior year. With the way Van perfected the 12-18 footer this past offseason, I have no doubt he'd get himself to the upper 30s from deep next season if not low 40s. Combine that with his ability to take virtually anyone off the bounce and he'd be an absolutely lethal offensive weapon - the kind that takes teams on deep tournament runs with the supporting cast he'd have. Really hope he stays, but if he doesn't, I really hope he gets drafted.
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Disagree wholeheartedly with this. He has improved his shot every year, and he's a natural competitor. Plus, he'd be clawing tooth and nail for a first round contract. He'd know that a deep tourney run would do wonders in that regard. I feel like we'd get the kind of season you see from major sports stars in their contract year. Also, remember Jerel McNeal went from 30.4% 3P shooting his junior year to 39.8% his senior year. With the way Van perfected the 12-18 footer this past offseason, I have no doubt he'd get himself to the upper 30s from deep next season if not low 40s. Combine that with his ability to take virtually anyone off the bounce and he'd be an absolutely lethal offensive weapon - the kind that takes teams on deep tournament runs with the supporting cast he'd have. Really hope he stays, but if he doesn't, I really hope he gets drafted.
I too hope he gets drafted and I agree with some of your points. It's important to have recognizable stars at the college level. It's good for pre-season exposure and he's obviously been apart of a lot of lot of tourney wins so his experience would be huge. I just think we have a lot of studs in the front court next year and IMO a top-3 nationally 1-2 punch at center next year. MU will look to go inside out next year and it's imperative that there is outside shooting to go along with that. For next years MU team I just think it's better to have a lot of options on the perimeter next year when they will have an inside out focus anyway.
I didn't check but I'm guessing that the number of shots Jerel McNeal took in his senior year went way up too. I think a similar trajectory would happen with Vander. Sure, he may shoot a better percentage than this year but those shots could be better served elsewhere in my opinion with the talent MU has returning and entering.
I have no problem with Blue returning and my lock screen on my phone is of him hitting the game winner against Davidson so I'm not a Vander hater like some here. I just don't see it as that big of a loss if he decides to go.
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It is a very big loss and unfortunately he is leaving.
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It is a very big loss and unfortunately he is leaving.
You've stated/implied this in 4 posts on this page alone. Did you get this from a source? If so, how reliable is that source? Any additional info?
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Too much smoke for there not to be fire on this...
MU will miss him most down the stretch of games. Was clutch at the line, and made some huge plays this season.
I just hope he really knows what he's doing here...
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It is a very big loss and unfortunately he is leaving.
Stop repeatedly posting this until something is announced.
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We have beaten this thread to death. Vander is not declaring for the NBA. He is not even on anyone's mock drafts, where it would be even feasible to consider him entering. If he is listed on someone's mock draft, he is in the late second round.
Please stop beating the dead horse with this thread.
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This does open the door for more minutes out of the newcomers, who are super talented. And sometimes when talented kids aren't playing, they leave. Long term, this might be a good thing for the program. We might not get to the final four next year, but if JJJ, DuWilson, and Burton are three or four-year players, we'll be a serious national title contender in a few years.
I periodically thank the mods for the "Ignore button". This is one of those times.
Thanks mods, for all you do. Especially for the "IB".
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I too hope he gets drafted and I agree with some of your points. It's important to have recognizable stars at the college level. It's good for pre-season exposure and he's obviously been apart of a lot of lot of tourney wins so his experience would be huge. I just think we have a lot of studs in the front court next year and IMO a top-3 nationally 1-2 punch at center next year. MU will look to go inside out next year and it's imperative that there is outside shooting to go along with that. For next years MU team I just think it's better to have a lot of options on the perimeter next year when they will have an inside out focus anyway.
I didn't check but I'm guessing that the number of shots Jerel McNeal took in his senior year went way up too. I think a similar trajectory would happen with Vander. Sure, he may shoot a better percentage than this year but those shots could be better served elsewhere in my opinion with the talent MU has returning and entering.
I have no problem with Blue returning and my lock screen on my phone is of him hitting the game winner against Davidson so I'm not a Vander hater like some here. I just don't see it as that big of a loss if he decides to go.
Then I don't think you know a thing about basketball.
Honestly, just because a team has a good year doesn't mean they're better off without a star player that left the year before. This year's team had more succes than last year's team, but would we have been worse if DJO and Jae were on this team? NO WAY!
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We have beaten this thread to death. Vander is not declaring for the NBA. He is not even on anyone's mock drafts, where it would be even feasible to consider him entering. If he is listed on someone's mock draft, he is in the late second round.
Please stop beating the dead horse with this thread.
You are correct, we have beat this to death and Vander is not on anyone's mock drafts. Unfortunately, sometimes young college athletes make poor choices. This will become abundantly clear to us very soon.
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Then I don't think you know a thing about basketball.
Honestly, just because a team has a good year doesn't mean they're better off without a star player that left the year before. This year's team had more succes than last year's team, but would we have been worse if DJO and Jae were on this team? NO WAY!
That's fair. I want Blue back but don't see it as that big of a loss BECAUSE of the guys we have to replace them. I could be wrong on that. Crowder and DJO were/will be harder to replace than Blue in my opinion. I think Blue's a really good college player. I also think that he has a shot at first team all-american if he comes back. Maybe I'm just really high on some of the guys we have coming in next year. Also, in college hoops I like to see the wheels keep turning. That's just how I see it though.
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That's fair. I want Blue back but don't see it as that big of a loss BECAUSE of the guys we have to replace them. I could be wrong on that.
Never want to have to totally rely on two freshmen in the backcourt, but I see what you're saying. Those guys have the talent, but Van's experience is invaluable.
I know he's persona non grata around here, but Mayo could really benefit if Blue leaves. Todd's a guy who needs some burn to get going. I get why Buzz handled him the way he did this season, but he never really got into the flow. If he's the starter at the two, and knows those minutes are out there this summer, I can see him having a really nice season.
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Duane Wilson just tweeted "big bro entering the NBA draft proud of him" hope he wasn't talking about Vander.
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I wish he would answer our tweets.....
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Duane Wilson just tweeted "big bro entering the NBA draft proud of him" hope he wasn't talking about Vander.
I just saw that too but now it looks like he deleted the tweet. What could that mean?!?!?!
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Duane Wilson just tweeted "big bro entering the NBA draft proud of him" hope he wasn't talking about Vander.
He has since deleted the tweet. This makes me even more worried.
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He has since deleted the tweet. This makes me even more worried.
It was taken down quick to, plus McCay just tweeted "they wanna know bad haha" This is looking bad if you ask me.
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How am I supposed to sleep tonight? Dammit Duane...
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Good luck Vander on the next path of your journey. Thank you for all your hard work.
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Just tweeted in reply to somebody else:
"talking bout Ricky Ledo"
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But why delete the tweet?
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Just tweeted in reply to somebody else:
"talking bout Ricky Ledo"
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But why delete the tweet?
Phew, good thing he wasn't talking about Van. What a coincidence though that he would tweet that now when Ledo declared a week ago.
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Ricky Ledo my ass. Gotta be Vander all the way and he's covering his skin. Trey J, come on down!!!
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How would he know Ricky? Ricky has been playing on the east coast. Would they know each other from the AAU circuit? If Van declares tonight with the paper he will be back. He isn't gonna hear good things on his draft status.
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Ricky declare like around April 9th I believe....so definitely sounds like a core up....
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How would he know Ricky? Ricky has been playing on the east coast. Would they know each other from the AAU circuit? If Van declares tonight with the paper he will be back. He isn't gonna hear good things on his draft status.
Ricky declare like around April 9th I believe....so definitely sounds like a core up....
Nothing to see here. The MU Scoop Detectives have solved the case!!!!
(hows about we just, I dunno, not hound an 18 year old kid on twitter...)
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Just got a text from Duane saying he was messing with us! He likes to monitor the board from time to time.
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Unfortunately Vander will make the wrong decision tomorrow and leave. Good luck Vander
Tranferrin' to Notre Dame?
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Never want to have to totally rely on two freshmen in the backcourt, but I see what you're saying. Those guys have the talent, but Van's experience is invaluable.
I know he's persona non grata around here, but Mayo could really benefit if Blue leaves. Todd's a guy who needs some burn to get going. I get why Buzz handled him the way he did this season, but he never really got into the flow. If he's the starter at the two, and knows those minutes are out there this summer, I can see him having a really nice season.
I don't know why so many people try to make Mayo something he is not. He is not even close to a viable replacement for Blue. What we have seen from him the last two years is what he is. Streaky shooter, questionable shot selection, plays poor defense for the most part and looks like he doesn't like being here. (I said "looks" don't know if that is true.)
Don't get me wrong, I hope you are correct, but I don't see it give his body of work.
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I don't know why so many people try to make Mayo something he is not. He is not even close to a viable replacement for Blue. What we have seen from him the last two years is what he is. Streaky shooter, questionable shot selection, plays poor defense for the most part and looks like he doesn't like being here. (I said "looks" don't know if that is true.)
Don't get me wrong, I hope you are correct, but I don't see it give his body of work.
What did you think of Blue after 2 years?
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How would he know Ricky? Ricky has been playing on the east coast. Would they know each other from the AAU circuit? If Van declares tonight with the paper he will be back. He isn't gonna hear good things on his draft status.
Facebook and Twitter gets you in trouble all the time!
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What did you think of Blue after 2 years?
I loved Blue's game from day one, and have always said that here and elsewhere. The difference is Blue came in as a 17 year old freshman with high expectations, Mayo is already 21 or 22.
Their games are not even close to the same. Blue is a great defender that's why he played as a freshman, he is more of a slasher and can get to the rim, his jump shot at least early on was not as good as Mayo's, but he does many other things that help the team.
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I don't know why so many people try to make Mayo something he is not. He is not even close to a viable replacement for Blue. What we have seen from him the last two years is what he is. Streaky shooter, questionable shot selection, plays poor defense for the most part and looks like he doesn't like being here. (I said "looks" don't know if that is true.)
Don't get me wrong, I hope you are correct, but I don't see it give his body of work.
I know that he hasn't shown much, but his minutes have been spotty at best. Much like Vander's were his first two years.
I wasn't "making him something he's not." The kid has been written off completely on here because he hasn't produced on the spot minutes he's played. Some guys can come off the bench and score right away. Some need to get a lather going first. I think he might be the latter. We'll see.
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I know that he hasn't shown much, but his minutes have been spotty at best. Much like Vander's were his first two years.
I wasn't "making him something he's not." The kid has been written off completely on here because he hasn't produced on the spot minutes he's played. Some guys can come off the bench and score right away. Some need to get a lather going first. I think he might be the latter. We'll see.
Like I said, I hope your are right, and I do not dislike Mayo. When he is on, he is a game changer. Maybe a full offseason with his head straight and scholastic problems behind him will be the turning point for him or maybe he is the next to transfer, Who knows.
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Speaking of Duane's tweets, I think he needs to start laying off the twitter a little bit next year. He tweets A LOT, and it could become a problem as he continues to gain a higher profile.
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Marquette Athletics just tweeted that Vander is forgoing his senior year for the NBA.
@&#*&
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Marquette Athletics just tweeted that Vander is forgoing his senior year for the NBA.
@&#*&
muathletics
52 seconds ago from TweetDeck
#mubb guard Vander Blue to forgo final season at Marquette & officially enter NBA Draft. Details to follow.
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Ummm wow.
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Man, I hope he makes it. I think he has the game, but we'll see. The thing is, prior to the Syracuse game, I'm not sure anyone would have been terribly surprised by this. I think that one game having a lot of impact on people's (around here) opinions.
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Not a wise decision. I hope like hell I'm wrong, and he has a lot of success. I just don't see that happening on this continent.
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Good luck Vander. The Idaho Stampede awaits your arrival.
Its your decision and not those of internet forum pundits, but not one mock draft, not one pro scouting service, anything has you as a first rounder this year.
Hate to see you leave with the potential class of next year, what could have been.
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Good luck, Vander. I'll never forget your 2013 year-end winners.
MU not top 10 without Vander next year. Still possibly a very good year, but it will have to be another case of Buzz coaching them up.
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is he gone-gone? or does he still have until the 28th to take his name out?
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The way I read this .. he has until midnight to take his name out ...
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Testing-the-NBA-Draft-Waters-in-2013-4103
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Tweet sure seems to imply he doesn't intend to return.
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Pretty excitin' to see next year's team take shape. Lots of youth, talent, and opportunity. Buzz will coach 'em up.
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Not getting picked in June. WNBA draft was last night, he declared too late for that one.
The way I read this .. he has until midnight to take his name out ...
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Testing-the-NBA-Draft-Waters-in-2013-4103
Yep, the 28th is an NBA deadline. He's in.
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Pretty excitin' to see next year's team take shape. Lots of youth, talent, and opportunity. Buzz will coach 'em up.
Personally I think decision could benefit all involved.
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From JSOnline:
The Marquette University athletics program reported on Tuesday that Vander Blue will forego his last season of eligibility and enter the NBA draft. The program made the announcement on its Twitter feed.
We'll have more as details emerge.
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Seriously I hope it works out for him, but to leave a consensus top 10 team for a chance of being drafted in mid/late 2nd round is dumb. I think it is a bigger risk to do what he is doing than playing out his senior year.
Many memories just from the last parts of the season alone. Best of luck fella.
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Apparently JJJ was right about Vander.
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http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/041613aab.html
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I don't really get this - why forgo your senior season unless you're a guaranteed 1st rounder. Getting picked in the 2nd round doesn't have any guaranteed money.
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Marquette Athletics just tweeted that Vander is forgoing his senior year for the NBA.
@&#*&
fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhdge
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Have fun in Turkey, Vander-
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MU: Vander Blue will enter NBA draft
The Marquette University athletics program reported on Tuesday that Vander Blue will forego his last season of eligibility and enter the NBA draft. The program made the announcement on its Twitter feed.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/203192841.html
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Junior Guard Vander Blue Declares For Early Entry To NBA Draft
Junior guard Vander Blue of the Marquette University men's basketball team announced Tuesday morning that he will forgo his final season of eligibility and officially submit his name for the National Basketball Association (NBA) Draft.
http://onlyfans.cstv.com/schools/marq/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/041613aab.html
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Blue forgoes senior year, enters NBA draft
Written by: Mark Strotman
Marquette junior Vander Blue  will forgo his senior year and declare for the 2013 NBA draft. He plans to hire an agent and will not have the possibility of returning to school. Blue considered his options for weeks, with Paint … Continue reading → (http://painttouches.com/2013/04/16/blue-forgoes-senior-year-enters-nba-draft/)
(http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=painttouches.com&blog=28348875&post=7519&subd=painttouches&ref=&feed=1)
http://painttouches.com/2013/04/16/blue-forgoes-senior-year-enters-nba-draft/
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Well there goes our FF run.
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I don't really get this - why forgo your senior season unless you're a guaranteed 1st rounder. Getting picked in the 2nd round doesn't have any guaranteed money.
Exactly. Is next year's class really that scary?
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I am disappointed because his game was trending to take a big jump next year. Wish him all the best of luck.
It is hard to predict what this means for next years team. Having experienced seniors is important for success especially in tournaments. On the other hand their is still significant talent on this team and significant talent coming in. Buzz will have to put it together.
I am hoping Jamil Wilson takes his game to the next level and is that difference maker ala Hayward, JFB, Crowder, etc
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Seriously I hope it works out for him, but to leave a consensus top 10 team for a chance of being drafted in mid/late 2nd round is dumb. I think it is a bigger risk to do what he is doing than playing out his senior year.
Many memories just from the last parts of the season alone. Best of luck fella.
What does a Top 10 team have to do with anything? He's not a fan. He's making a life choice. I would never expect a kid to evaluate his decision based on the team's possibilities. That's selfish on our part. Vander's busted his tail for 3 years, what does he owe us? Good Luck Vander...prove 'em wrong.
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Not only is this frggin frustrating as an MU fan but also as a Vander fan, I want to see him succeed and this is not the right way to do it.
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Decades in advance, this GI JOE PSA amazingly foretold our sentiments to this event
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phFgCLguSNI
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Woeffel talked to jamil yesterday...if jamil gets positive feedback from NBA people...he will leave also.
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What does a Top 10 team have to do with anything? He's not a fan. He's making a life choice. I would never expect a kid to evaluate his decision based on the team's possibilities. That's selfish on our part. Vander's busted his tail for 3 years, what does he owe us? Good Luck Vander...prove 'em wrong.
What about the Florida guys who looked what could be for the next year and came back?
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A shooting guard who can't shoot. Not sure too many NBA teams are lining up for that. Hope he's ready to spend some serious time in the D League.
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Well there goes our FF run.
Disagree. He's easier to replace than Jae and DJ were. He had a great run in February and March, but those guys were simply better players.
Whole lotta talent coming in. They'll be able to replace his scoring fairly easily.
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I just love all you guys talking about how comb this is, and how much smarter it would be for him to come back for his Senior season. That is so easy for all of you to say, because you want MU to be good. Maybe he doesn't want to go to college anymore. Maybe he's sick of playing for free. The guy can go make a solid living in Europe if the NBA doesn't work out, and he knows it. What's wrong with that, aside from the fact that it makes MU worse, which is what so many of you seem to care about most.
These guys aren't at MU (or anywhere else) to go to school, they're there to play basketball. That's what they care about. He sees his chance to take a step forward and he's taking it.
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What does a Top 10 team have to do with anything? He's not a fan. He's making a life choice. I would never expect a kid to evaluate his decision based on the team's possibilities. That's selfish on our part. Vander's busted his tail for 3 years, what does he owe us? Good Luck Vander...prove 'em wrong.
I really really hope he gets drafted and can stick but he's likely a second round pick at best. He's taking a pretty big gamble with this move.
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Good luck Vander. The Idaho Stampede awaits your arrival.
Its your decision and not those of internet forum pundits, but not one mock draft, not one pro scouting service, anything has you as a first rounder this year.
Hate to see you leave with the potential class of next year, what could have been.
What still will be. We will reload and by fine. He wont be playing in Idaho trust me.
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Exactly. Is next year's class really that scary?
He may have a tougher time getting in with the One-and-Done pool being MUCH better than this year's.
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Signing with an agent as well....
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Disagree. He's easier to replace than Jae and DJ were. He had a great run in February and March, but those guys were simply better players.
Whole lotta talent coming in. They'll be able to replace his scoring fairly easily.
I guess I don't have as much faith in freshman as you do.
See Vander's freshman year......
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What does a Top 10 team have to do with anything? He's not a fan. He's making a life choice. I would never expect a kid to evaluate his decision based on the team's possibilities. That's selfish on our part. Vander's busted his tail for 3 years, what does he owe us? Good Luck Vander...prove 'em wrong.
Well said Lenz
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What about the Florida guys who looked what could be for the next year and came back?
One was the son of a NBA player, the other of a model and tennis pro. A lot easier for them to give it the ole college try.
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Woeffel talked to jamil yesterday...if jamil gets positive feedback from NBA people...he will leave also.
This would be way more of a disaster
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What about the Florida guys who looked what could be for the next year and came back?
What about them? Could not be more irrelevant.
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I just love all you guys talking about how comb this is, and how much smarter it would be for him to come back for his Senior season. That is so easy for all of you to say, because you want MU to be good. Maybe he doesn't want to go to college anymore. Maybe he's sick of playing for free. The guy can go make a solid living in Europe if the NBA doesn't work out, and he knows it. What's wrong with that, aside from the fact that it makes MU worse, which is what so many of you seem to care about most.
These guys aren't at MU (or anywhere else) to go to school, they're there to play basketball. That's what they care about. He sees his chance to take a step forward and he's taking it.
Euro money will always be there. The argument being made is he has a better NBA chance after another year if growth and being the premier player on a top 10 team.
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This would be way more of a disaster
Agree. If Wilson left it'd be a much bigger blow
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I just love all you guys talking about how comb this is, and how much smarter it would be for him to come back for his Senior season. That is so easy for all of you to say, because you want MU to be good. Maybe he doesn't want to go to college anymore. Maybe he's sick of playing for free. The guy can go make a solid living in Europe if the NBA doesn't work out, and he knows it. What's wrong with that, aside from the fact that it makes MU worse, which is what so many of you seem to care about most.
These guys aren't at MU (or anywhere else) to go to school, they're there to play basketball. That's what they care about. He sees his chance to take a step forward and he's taking it.
Huh??? He's a shooting guard who can't shoot. That's the reality.
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What about them? Could not be more irrelevant.
I was referencing the fact that they looked at what Florida's chances would be for the next year and decided to come back. I said that in response to The Lens saying "What does a Top 10 team have to do with anything? He's not a fan. He's making a life choice. I would never expect a kid to evaluate his decision based on the team's possibilities."
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Euro money will always be there. The argument being made is he has a better NBA chance after another year if growth and being the premier player on a top 10 team.
That's great. Again, extremely easy for you to say.
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You're making a big mistake Victor Pulak.... a big mistake.
I echo people who said they are more worried about what it means for Vander's career than our team next year. I really hope this doesn't backfire on him. If he makes a team and sticks, it's good for both him and MU in the long run.
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That's great. Again, extremely easy for you to say.
I get it. But seriously, stop acting like he's a pauper.
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Best of luck to Vander! What an exciting time in his life!
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Been busy with other stuff the last 12 hours so I completely missed this. Wow. I think Vander will end up being a late-first to early-second round NBA pick. He'll make a team and stick. I know many are still down on his chances because of his first two years but those people aren't realizing that when your needle is trending this high up further improvement is to be expected, and that is what some NBA GM will bank on.
Many thought Vander wouldn't get a lot of time early, but his defense got him on the court. People said he couldn't finish at the rim, but he became one of the best in the conference at it this year. People still say he can't shoot, but he's very accurate inside the arc and has improved his 3P% every year.
Best of luck to Vander, I do feel we just went from a title contender and top-5 team to somewhere in the 12-15 range. Really gut-punched by this, but I can't begrudge him because I'm sure he's just trying to make the best decision for himself. That he chose to declare tells me Marquette got positive feedback from NBA scouts and GMs in regards to Vander's stock. You still my boy, Blue.
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I guess I don't have as much faith in freshman as you do.
See Vander's freshman year......
That's the beauty of it. None of them will have to be "the guy" right away. Taylor's production will increase. Would think Jamil's numbers will go up as well. JJJ and Duane won't have to carry the scoring load. Takes a lot of pressure off them.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4jGSvxCRp4
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I was referencing the fact that they looked at what Florida's chances would be for the next year and decided to come back. I said that in response to The Lens saying "What does a Top 10 team have to do with anything? He's not a fan. He's making a life choice. I would never expect a kid to evaluate his decision based on the team's possibilities."
I understand what you were saying completely. What does it have to do with anything? So MU can be good next year, and the UF players made the decision they made, why should that have any impact on Vander Blue's decision on what to do with his life? It's completely irrelevant.
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Blue forgoes senior year, enters NBA draft
Written by: Mark Strotman
Marquette junior Vander Blue  will forgo his senior year and declare for the 2013 NBA draft. He plans to hire an agent and will not have the possibility of returning to school. Blue expressed his gratitude towards the university in … Continue reading → (http://painttouches.com/2013/04/16/blue-forgoes-senior-year-enters-nba-draft/)
(http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=painttouches.com&blog=28348875&post=7519&subd=painttouches&ref=&feed=1)
http://painttouches.com/2013/04/16/blue-forgoes-senior-year-enters-nba-draft/
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Agree. If Wilson left it'd be a much bigger blow
Yep. I think he can do even more to improve his stock with one more year than Blue could have. But I would get it a little more since he's graduating.
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I get it. But seriously, stop acting like he's a pauper.
I'm acting like he's tired of playing on college and wants to take the next step in hiis career. But yet again, "stop acting like he's a pauper," Really? My guess would be that you have a well paying job, retirement account, college funds started, etc...maybe not, but extremely easy for you to say that.
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Haha you guys seem so shocked and upset. I told all of you MONTHS ago that he was entering the draft. That's the only reason JJJ signed!! And for all you Vander Blue haters he will get drafted and have a career in the NBA! It's all about potential and Vander has tons of it at only 20 YEARS OLD. That's what he has going for him and it mean a lot to NBA scouts. Good move Vander!
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Why is everyone so sure that if he comes back next year, where he is limited in the amount of time he can put in to improve himself, he automatically betters his position?
I know it can happen that way. But, do we have statistics that back up what appears to be a pretty big assumption?
His stock is high now. It might be higher now than it will be in a year. If that is the case, maybe now is the time to go.
Eitherway, the decision won't be "right" or "wrong" until later. Until then, I wish him the best, thank him for the hard work, and hope he makes the NBA. If he doesn't, I hope he makes some money somewhere.
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I think it is a mistake. He is quoted as saying that he consulted family on it, but it would seem he didn't mention anything about Buzz or NBA advice. Also, if someone else leaves could it be a sign of trouble with regards to the program?
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In what is only an opinion, I think this is a bad move. But Van, work your butt off and I won't care if you make me look bad. Thanks for the memories, and best of luck!
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Good luck Vander. You grew up a lot in the last year, especially from a maturity stand point. Hope it works out and you made the correct decision. Can't fault anyone for pursuing their dreams, I just hope the timing is right to make sure those dreams are within reach this year rather than next.
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What does a Top 10 team have to do with anything? He's not a fan. He's making a life choice. I would never expect a kid to evaluate his decision based on the team's possibilities. That's selfish on our part. Vander's busted his tail for 3 years, what does he owe us? Good Luck Vander...prove 'em wrong.
Disagree. You have to weigh the opportunities available by coming back versus going pro and the projected success of the team next year would have to be a factor in any college player's decision. I can say objectively that any kid that declares for the draft without a pretty high certainty that he will be drafted in the frist round is taking a big risk. There's nothing selfish about that.
Of course, it is Vander's decision and and he owns this choice regardless of how it works out. Hope he does well and if so that is good for the program over the long term. We will move on and be fine, but this is a big blow to a team that would have been top 10 next year.
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I understand what you were saying completely. What does it have to do with anything? So MU can be good next year, and the UF players made the decision they made, why should that have any impact on Vander Blue's decision on what to do with his life? It's completely irrelevant.
It shouldn't and wouldn't affect Vander's decision. It's relevant to the conversation because he used the general statement saying he wouldn't expect a kid to make a decision based on his team's potential and the Florida example is a direct counter to that statement.
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When he goes undrafted, will the "green room" forever be referred to as the "Blue room?"
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Anyone who says he should have stayed doesn't realize how weak this years draft is, and that Vander's stock is as high as it will probably get without a MONSTER senior year.
Good luck to him.
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These guys aren't at MU (or anywhere else) to go to school, they're there to play basketball. That's what they care about. He sees his chance to take a step forward and he's taking it.
Broad statement, most of them actually are there to go to school because most of them know this is the end of the line for basketball.
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I think it is a mistake. He is quoted as saying that he consulted family on it, but it would seem he didn't mention anything about Buzz or NBA advice. Also, if someone else leaves could it be a sign of trouble with regards to the program?
So because it wasn't in the quote you think he didn't talk to Buzz? Marquette put feelers in to the NBA a week ago. I have no doubt that Blue consulted with Buzz and they took into account what the NBA committee was saying. I don't believe he leaves without feeling confident he'll be drafted.
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You're making a big mistake Victor Pulak.... a big mistake.
I echo people who said they are more worried about what it means for Vander's career than our team next year. I really hope this doesn't backfire on him. If he makes a team and sticks, it's good for both him and MU in the long run.
I agree putting another player in the NBA would be great for recruiting for MU. Though I have to wonder if having a shot at the final four might not have benn better.
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Been busy with other stuff the last 12 hours so I completely missed this. Wow. I think Vander will end up being a late-first to early-second round NBA pick. He'll make a team and stick. I know many are still down on his chances because of his first two years but those people aren't realizing that when your needle is trending this high up further improvement is to be expected, and that is what some NBA GM will bank on.
Many thought Vander wouldn't get a lot of time early, but his defense got him on the court. People said he couldn't finish at the rim, but he became one of the best in the conference at it this year. People still say he can't shoot, but he's very accurate inside the arc and has improved his 3P% every year.
Best of luck to Vander, I do feel we just went from a title contender and top-5 team to somewhere in the 12-15 range. Really gut-punched by this, but I can't begrudge him because I'm sure he's just trying to make the best decision for himself. That he chose to declare tells me Marquette got positive feedback from NBA scouts and GMs in regards to Vander's stock. You still my boy, Blue.
My thoughts exactly. We'll still be a very good team, but we went from a Final Four caliber team to a fringe contender. I hope Duane and Jajuan are ready to carry some of the scoring load. And I really hope Vander gets drafted so that I won't forever wonder what could have been.
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https://twitter.com/SethDavisHoops/status/324159959405305858
"Rough break 4 Marquette as Vander Blue will enter draft and sign w agent. Borderline prospect but prob wouldn't boost stock if he came back."
At least one analyst doesn't believe another year would help any. I wonder if this was the info he was getting from sources. Makes sense to go, if so.
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My thoughts exactly. We'll still be a very good team, but we went from a Final Four caliber team to a fringe contender. I hope Duane and Jajuan are ready to carry some of the scoring load. And I really hope Vander gets drafted so that I won't forever wonder what could have been.
I think regardless if he gets drafted, we'll all wonder what could have been
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Broad statement, most of them actually are there to go to school because most of them know this is the end of the line for basketball.
That's sort of correct. When I say 'these guys' I am referring to he Vander Blues of the world, as opposed to the Jake Thomases.
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https://twitter.com/SethDavisHoops/status/324159959405305858
"Rough break 4 Marquette as Vander Blue will enter draft and sign w agent. Borderline prospect but prob wouldn't boost stock if he came back."
At least one analyst doesn't believe another year would help any. I wonder if this was the info he was getting from sources. Makes sense to go, if so.
Hey this is exactly what I said.
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Theres 2 to 3 kids very excited right now, Mayo, Wilson and Johnson, playing time is available, and Burton and Taylor have to be excited with Anderson leaving. MU will be fine next
year.
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I agree putting another player in the NBA would be great for recruiting for MU. Though I have to wonder if having a shot at the final four might not have benn better.
Come on. You can't sit there and bank your decision on a final four. Too many things our of your control.
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Please, Jamil. Don't declare.
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Haha you guys seem so shocked and upset. I told all of you MONTHS ago that he was entering the draft. That's the only reason JJJ signed!! And for all you Vander Blue haters he will get drafted and have a career in the NBA! It's all about potential and Vander has tons of it at only 20 YEARS OLD. That's what he has going for him and it mean a lot to NBA scouts. Good move Vander!
You were 100% correct regarding JJJ signing with Vander leaving.
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Anyone who says he should have stayed doesn't realize how weak this years draft is, and that Vander's stock is as high as it will probably get without a MONSTER senior year.
Good luck to him.
So all the draft experts that say he is a first rounder next year are wrong.....apparently.....and apparently they don't realize how weak this years draft is....apparently
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https://twitter.com/SethDavisHoops/status/324159959405305858
"Rough break 4 Marquette as Vander Blue will enter draft and sign w agent. Borderline prospect but prob wouldn't boost stock if he came back."
At least one analyst doesn't believe another year would help any. I wonder if this was the info he was getting from sources. Makes sense to go, if so.
That's where I am at in that he's a borderline prospect and another year won't hurt or improve him. It's blues decision and he had to decide what's best for him, but if it was me I would take another year to play close to my family, make a huge run, boost my name brand for European teams and get a degree over risky draft right now. Then again, draft express had him as high as 23 in 14 so maybe he is a first rounder?
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So because it wasn't in the quote you think he didn't talk to Buzz? Marquette put feelers in to the NBA a week ago. I have no doubt that Blue consulted with Buzz and they took into account what the NBA committee was saying. I don't believe he leaves without feeling confident he'll be drafted.
Ok that makes more sense. I'm live very far from Milwaukee and had not really seen anything about "...feelers to NBA..." I know he is only 20 but the way he spoke he made it look like it was more of him deciding with his family.
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Mark me down as someone who thinks this is a huge plus for our program.
While I do think we would have been a better team in 2013-14 with Van (and Juan FWIW), I fully embrace the team's culture of next man up. Let's face it, this was a better 'team' than last year's with Jae and DJO, and those guys were both better than Van. And all signs point to having more in the incoming players as a whole than this year's team and I don't think it out of line to say that we could have as much success next year without Van as with him.
I think Mayo takes the next step (not much to couch that opinion in other than I know the talent is there) and we are really set at all the other positions on the team.
Bottom line is this is what prospects want to see, a chance to go to the NBA, and seeing a guy go early is even more to like. Obviously every fan would like to see all players stay for four years and reach the maximum development for their team. But thats just not how it is in today's college game.
This is just one more sign of Marq trending to elite program status.
And for the folks all bent out of shape of "the reason why these kids go to college", its in part to prepare them for a professional career, whatever that career is. In this case, for Van, its basketball. I don't think anyone would argue Marq hasnt done that, with considerable work on his part. If someone offered some computer IT genius who was a junior a mulit million dollar job in the corp world and their left their junior year, would you think differently about their decision and Marq's role in shaping that person for the future?
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Good luck Vander, it was exciting in the tourney in your 3 years with MU.
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Yes, this is a huge plus ... Only if he gets drafted and paid.
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I hope his passport is current.
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For once I'll play the role of optomist...
This isn't end of the world. Obviously Vander is VERY talented and proved himself as leader. But this is what Buzz does- he reloads, he overcomes. We've got loads of talent coming in. This gives Jamil a chance to step into a huge role. More minutes for Todd, too. We'll be fine. But I REALLY hope Jamil doesn't leave, as (like many) I anticipate the elusive breakout year for him to finally happen next year. Losing Jamil would be awful. Losing Vander is surmountable.
With all that being said-- good for you, Van! Hope you get the a shot at it and keep improving!
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I hope Vander updated his passport.
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Personally, I don't think teams will give a rats ass about his shooting at this point.
What they will like to see is that it improved (meaning it will likely continue to improve esp with pro coaches). What they do care about are the things you can't teach, his speed, athleticism, and "clutch-ness". If I were an NBA scout and saw him win the St Johns game and the Davidson game, as long as I'm okay with his height, I'm all over him.
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So all the draft experts that say he is a first rounder next year are wrong.....apparently.....and apparently they don't realize how weak this years draft is....apparently
All the draft experts are anticipating that his numbers don't drop off next year.
Always play the safe card in this situation.
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Prospects want to see other players get into the league and then succeed. Granted time will tell, but definitely not a plus for the program now.
Also, now we can have the possibility of 7 new additions to the roster? That can mean it will take us a very long time to gel.
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Huh??? He's a shooting guard who can't shoot. That's the reality.
Hope he proves you wrong. His FG% has improved each year.
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All the draft experts are anticipating that his numbers don't drop off next year.
Always play the safe card in this situation.
That's far different than what you said earlier. There's a reason why the draft experts think he is a first rounder next year and undrafted this year. I hope they are wrong and he makes it.
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All the draft experts are anticipating that his numbers don't drop off next year.
Always play the safe card in this situation.
So you think Vander leaving now is playing the "safe" card??
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All the draft experts are anticipating that his numbers don't drop off next year.
Always play the safe card in this situation.
The "safe card" isn't very safe
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So you think Vander leaving now is playing the "safe" card??
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2013/
Does anyone actually believe Vander will jump any of these players and get into first round. This is just one of many mock drafts for 2013 and don't see it happening.
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That's far different than what you said earlier. There's a reason why the draft experts think he is a first rounder next year and undrafted this year. I hope they are wrong and he makes it.
Yes, there is. Because they didn't have him declaring this year. You don't pick a guy to get drafted this year and next year, that's just silly. Vander will be drafted. Honestly, I think he'll be a late first round pick, but I have no doubt he will be drafted.
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Sure it is. Do you guys really think that Blue would just declare for the draft on a whim? Really? He has been told that he will get drafted.
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Yes, there is. Because they didn't have him declaring this year. You don't pick a guy to get drafted this year and next year, that's just silly. Vander will be drafted. Honestly, I think he'll be a late first round pick, but I have no doubt he will be drafted.
+1
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Season GP MPG PPG FG% 3FG% FT% APG RPG BPG SPG
2012-13 34 33.0 14.8 45.4 30.3 75.6 1.8 3.2 0.0 1.1
2011-12 35 25.7 8.4 41.3 25.8 70.8 2.6 4.5 0.2 1.1
2010-11 37 19.0 5.1 39.4 16.0 60.8 1.6 2.8 0.2 0.9
Career 106 25.7 9.3 42.9 27.6 70.4 2.0 3.5 0.1 1.0
9 pts per game and 3 rebounds per game to go along with 2 assists. He's not going to see a minute of NBA playing time.
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in most things timing is of the essence..., I believe Van would greatly benefit from returning for another year. He now has the eye of the basketball world, is a known commodity. His stage next year could not be bigger. He had an opportunity to earn a huge contract. Instead, he is limping into the NBA, or not. Obviously, I don't know his family situation. Hardship may be creating a necessity. Either way, I wish him the best of luck, and am grateful to have been able to watch him play at Marquette. This past year he truly was a Warrior.
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All the draft experts are anticipating that his numbers don't drop off next year.
Always play the safe card in this situation.
Yeah, that makes some sense as his scoring may likely drop a bit. Hope he's hearing 1st round, cause anything other than that will make his senior yr a missed opportunity.
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Sure it is. Do you guys really think that Blue would just declare for the draft on a whim? Really? He has been told that he will get drafted.
But drafted where? Safe would be getting your degree, improving this year and then going. Nothing is guaranteed for Vander right now. Nothing.
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Jeff Goodman does not approve.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/22083950/marquettes-vander-blue-heading-to-nba
In one of the more baffling, head-scratching decisions of the offseason, Marquette junior guard Vander Blue has opted to leave early for the NBA.
The 6-foot-4 wing had a terrific season for Buzz Williams and the Golden Eagles. There's no debating that. He averaged 14.8 points and helped lead Marquette to the Elite Eight. However, he'll likely be taken somewhere in the second round in June's NBA Draft -- or he may even fail to hear his name called altogether on Thursday, June 27.
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Vander isn't even considered in either ESPN's "underclassmen who might be leaving article" OR Chad Ford's "Top 100 Draft Prospects." I feel like he must have had some major reassurance for specific NBA teams that they'd pick him up.
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Vander isn't even considered in either ESPN's "underclassmen who might be leaving article" OR Chad Ford's "Top 100 Draft Prospects." I feel like he must have had some major reassurance for specific NBA teams that they'd pick him up.
You would hope so but I fear it's family pressure to go
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As I tweeted, Van getting drafted is my new prediction. My guess is late first round, but I definitely no doubt believe he will be drafted.
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let's just rewind to the middle of last season, if you had said that Van would turn it on like he did, we go to the elite 8, and he goes pro, do you say then that is a huge success for our program?
If yes, then theres no point in revisionist comments now.
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Jeff Goodman does not approve.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/22083950/marquettes-vander-blue-heading-to-nba
In one of the more baffling, head-scratching decisions of the offseason, Marquette junior guard Vander Blue has opted to leave early for the NBA.
The 6-foot-4 wing had a terrific season for Buzz Williams and the Golden Eagles. There's no debating that. He averaged 14.8 points and helped lead Marquette to the Elite Eight. However, he'll likely be taken somewhere in the second round in June's NBA Draft -- or he may even fail to hear his name called altogether on Thursday, June 27.
Considering everyone believes Goodman (and Parrish) to be Buzz' mouthpiece regarding coaching searches, do we now see Scoop go on the offensive that Goodman is relating Buzz' true thoughts?
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Jeff Goodman does not approve.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/22083950/marquettes-vander-blue-heading-to-nba
In one of the more baffling, head-scratching decisions of the offseason, Marquette junior guard Vander Blue has opted to leave early for the NBA.
The 6-foot-4 wing had a terrific season for Buzz Williams and the Golden Eagles. There's no debating that. He averaged 14.8 points and helped lead Marquette to the Elite Eight. However, he'll likely be taken somewhere in the second round in June's NBA Draft -- or he may even fail to hear his name called altogether on Thursday, June 27.
This. No first round money, no guarentee contract, NBDL. No way he beats out the other prospects to the first round.
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Boy, there I look over mock drafts, the smarter this decision becomes. When you see names like, Russ Smith, Phil Pressey, DeShaun Thomas...even guys like Gieng and Withey despite their size, who generally fall in that late first/early second area, do not appear to me at least be very good NBA prospects, which is what this is about. Those saying he has "no chance" are probably paying more attention to his flaws than his strengths. That's natural given the familiarity we all have, but not the way it works.
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Won't help any...unless you count earning a degree with that extra year. ::)
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let's just rewind to the middle of last season, if you had said that Van would turn it on like he did, we go to the elite 8, and he goes pro, do you say then that is a huge success for our program?
If yes, then theres no point in revisionist comments now.
Your original post says nothing about going to the elite 8. Vander did turn it on, but his shot is improving but still could use a lot of work for the NBA. Granted i hope he becomes an All-Star, and only time will tell, but IMO he is leaving too early.
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You sure made the right call when you chose to reopen your recruiting. Good luck and God bless.
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But drafted where? Safe would be getting your degree, improving this year and then going. Nothing is guaranteed for Vander right now. Nothing.
But your assumption is that he will improve.
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Yes, there is. Because they didn't have him declaring this year. You don't pick a guy to get drafted this year and next year, that's just silly. Vander will be drafted. Honestly, I think he'll be a late first round pick, but I have no doubt he will be drafted.
Did you get your beer yet? It's on its way. Would you like to have a bet whether he is first round or not? I hope you are right and definitely willing to reward you again for another great pick if it happens. I don't see it. I'm having great trouble seeing 2nd rounder.
I am trying to interview one of the DraftExpress guys today and will post to CrackedSidewalks if able.
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You would hope so but I fear it's family pressure to go
Nope. His family wants him to stay in school.
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Sure it is. Do you guys really think that Blue would just declare for the draft on a whim? Really? He has been told that he will get drafted.
It happens all the time, kids get advice they will be drafted and they aren't drafted.
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Jeff Goodman does not approve.
Which by the transitive property means Buzz Williams......................
:-X
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It happens all the time, kids get advice they will be drafted and they aren't drafted.
That's true, and kids also get advice that they will get drafted, and they are.
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But your assumption is that he will improve.
Yes, after 3 straight years of improving and a good post season, the assumption is that the trajectory would continue.
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I got it, I am converging to two distinct dialogues here, should vander leave and what is the state of MU BBall given that development.
Im not sure one way or the other whether vander should leave. While I think he would have continued to improve, there is no denying what a performance like his in the NCAA tourney does for a draft stock. His "demand" is pretty high right now, relatively speaking, and even if he is a "better" player by this time next year, is there the same amount of buzz about him if we don't replicate the success? Its obviously a very tough decision, I hope he makes the best of it and am coming to grips with the fact that MU will be fine and perhaps will even continue to rise as a result.
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I give the kid credit. He has had a goal from day one and has out himself in position to live out that dream. Best of luck to him and I will watch his career closely.
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The aftermath of Vander Blue: Where Marquette goes from here
Written by: Mark Strotman
Rumors that came on strong last Tuesday only magnified throughout the week that junior guard Vander Blue was considering forgoing his senior year to enter the 2013 NBA draft. Those rumors came to fruition earlier today when Blue announced he … Continue reading → (http://painttouches.com/2013/04/16/the-aftermath-of-vander-blue-where-marquette-goes-from-here/)
(http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=painttouches.com&blog=28348875&post=7528&subd=painttouches&ref=&feed=1)
http://painttouches.com/2013/04/16/the-aftermath-of-vander-blue-where-marquette-goes-from-here/
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I think something that is in play here is the fact that his friends from the USA team he was on are all in the NBA and having some success. He started in a back court with Kyrie and Austin Rivers so I bet that he thinks he is just as good as those guys and deserves to get paid.
Personally I don't think he will get drafted in the first round but really hope he does because that would be huge for the program. In reality it seems like he will be traveling Europe without a championship ring or a college degree, but hey best of luck and I'm rooting for you.
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If Vander goes in the first round then it was a great move. He knows he played the best basketball of his life this year and maybe feels that he has hit his peak in college. I think he's ready for it and I wouldn't underestimate him. He'll be drafted and have a good career in the NBA. I also believe that MU will replace Blue's production and will be fine next year. I will feel the same way if Jamil Wilson decides to go too.
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Good luck Vander. You grew up a lot in the last year, especially from a maturity stand point. Hope it works out and you made the correct decision. Can't fault anyone for pursuing their dreams, I just hope the timing is right to make sure those dreams are within reach this year rather than next.
So I guess we can put to rest the nonsense that "we can put to rest the Vander to the NBA nonsense", no?
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Yes, after 3 straight years of improving and a good post season, the assumption is that the trajectory would continue.
He could be a better individual player next year, but not be a better team player, if his game focused on improving his draft status. It also seems like the NBA downgrades you the older you get, so even a small improvement would be offset by the age factor.
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So I guess we can put to rest the nonsense that "we can put to rest the Vander to the NBA nonsense", no?
Has he made the NBA? People make bad decisions all the time. Let's hope this isn't one of them. Considering what Goodman just wrote, I'm guessing Buzz thinks its a bad decision as well...though he will never come out publicly and say it.
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But your assumption is that he will improve.
I'm really putting myself out there I know.
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He knew this year was make or break year from him and he delivered the goods. IMO his self imposed pressure to play high level makes his performance more impressive. He knew what needed to be done and did it. Aside from great athletic ability he showed what type of competitor he is. He carried the team much of the season but always put winning first.
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As I tweeted, Van getting drafted is my new prediction. My guess is late first round, but I definitely no doubt believe he will be drafted.
I hope he's banking on "making a team" and not just "getting drafted".
If he doesn't make a roster - is it fair to say that leaving early was a mistake?
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I hope all those who have made sport of Goose, called him a tin foiler and laughed at him (and his source) for saying Vander was done after this year months ago will apologize, but I won't hold my breath.
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Good luck to Vander, I personally think it's a mistake, but it's his call, not mine. Can't begrudge him at all for pursuing this.
From a MU fan standpoint, will miss his defensive intensity. Possible "Ewing Theory" potential here though for MU, especially on the offensive end. I'm intrigued.
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So is it safe to assume that Todd Mayo will now become the new whipping boy for next year's regular season as Blue has been most of the last three years?
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Has he made the NBA? People make bad decisions all the time. Let's hope this isn't one of them. Considering what Goodman just wrote, I'm guessing Buzz thinks its a bad decision as well...though he will never come out publicly and say it.
Should have read his "attempt" to make the NBA.
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Has he made the NBA? People make bad decisions all the time. Let's hope this isn't one of them. Considering what Goodman just wrote, I'm guessing Buzz thinks its a bad decision as well...though he will never come out publicly and say it.
No, he hasn't, but I think that saying any talk of him going is "nonsense" and calling for people to "officially stop this Vander to the NBA stuff" and deal with reality goes well beyond questioning the efficacy of his declaring.
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Selfish reason I did not want Vander to go pro this year - I wanted to see him have the opportunity to throw down a bunch of dunks and light up Bucky in his senior season at the Kohlhole... how sweet that would have been...
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From a MU fan standpoint, will miss his defensive intensity. Possible "Ewing Theory" potential here though for MU, especially on the offensive end. I'm intrigued.
I'm right there with you.
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Good luck to Vander, I personally think it's a mistake, but it's his call, not mine. Can't begrudge him at all for pursuing this.
From a MU fan standpoint, will miss his defensive intensity. Possible "Ewing Theory" potential here though for MU, especially on the offensive end. I'm intrigued.
Ewing Theory was one of the first things I thought of.
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Boy, there I look over mock drafts, the smarter this decision becomes. When you see names like, Russ Smith, Phil Pressey, DeShaun Thomas...even guys like Gieng and Withey despite their size, who generally fall in that late first/early second area, do not appear to me at least be very good NBA prospects, which is what this is about. Those saying he has "no chance" are probably paying more attention to his flaws than his strengths. That's natural given the familiarity we all have, but not the way it works.
+1
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Did you get your beer yet? It's on its way. Would you like to have a bet whether he is first round or not? I hope you are right and definitely willing to reward you again for another great pick if it happens. I don't see it. I'm having great trouble seeing 2nd rounder.
I am trying to interview one of the DraftExpress guys today and will post to CrackedSidewalks if able.
No beer yet, but looking forward to it. I would definitely bet on second round...still feel about 55/45 on first round.
I hope he's banking on "making a team" and not just "getting drafted".
If he doesn't make a roster - is it fair to say that leaving early was a mistake?
Not necessarily. Guys get injured, guys have bad or plateau years (see Young, BJ), if he ends up in the NBDL and into the NBA in 2-3 years, that may be better than going undrafted in a deep year and not being able to catch on with the right team. WesMat got one-in-a-million lucky to land where he did, most players can't count on that happening.
And I feel it's all about taking things one step at a time. Before making a team you have to get drafted. Go kick ass at the scouting events you can now and get your name called. Then focus on the next step. I've said all along that I hoped he'd be back and felt it was probably better for him, but that I don't think he's making a mistake to declare now.
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Hoo Boy: Giving a walk on Garrett Swanson a scholarship replacing the one Blue had really brims us with confidence.
From two over to two under in two weeks sure is astounding. Best of luck to Vander.
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Hoo Boy: Giving a walk on Garrett Swanson a scholarship replacing the one Blue had really brims us with confidence.
From two over to two under in two weeks sure is astounding. Best of luck to Vander.
We were never two over...only one. Still astounding though.
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Wow--we just went from a top 10 pre-season team for next year to be scarmling to make the top 25. Somehow, a potential starting lineup at Guard of De. Wilson and Todd Mayo is not awe inspiring.
Du. Wilson and Triple J better be getting many minutes next year, because the Guard spot will be needing lots of help.
Four guys gone from the team in two weeks does take your breath away. Likely 3 of them would not have seen many minutes, and now there is not much talent still available to recruit for next season. Hopefully Buzz can still attract one stud.
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This. No first round money, no guarentee contract, NBDL. No way he beats out the other prospects to the first round.
Gonna all come down to how Vander does in the pre-draft camps. He's going to have to shine.
I hope nothing best for the kid. As one who, honestly, came down on him too hard at times he really, really improved this year and I think in one more season - with all the talent coming back which would allow his assists to flourish - he really could have at least guaranteed a spot on NBA draft night.
I guess there's a chance he could get drafted in the first round this year, but there's also just as much of a chance he doesn't get drafted at all. Having a solid senior season would have at least guaranteed him getting drafted (I think). And I understand injuries and all, but that's what insurance is for. Get it for one year if you have too.
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Ewing Theory was one of the first things I thought of.
I don't think you can place a Ewing Theory unless we had the same roster minus Blue. The incoming class definitely changes things. Otherwise, you'd have to ask about Ewing Theory nearly every year (after Lazar, after DJO/Jae, etc.)
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Ewing Theory was one of the first things I thought of.
+2
If there's one thing a stud, underclassman PG needs to succeed and take the load off it's solid big men. MU has that next year. Between Otule, Gardner and Wilson, they should be able to take a load off the PGs...barring some of them can hit an open J. God...I forgot about Steve Taylor too. I mean...if you are the freshman, it's all about paint touches even more so now.
Get it down low, kick it out and penetrate or hit the open J.
I definitely see Ewing Theory opportunity here.
Side thought - wonder how much the lessened-Big East played a role too. Wonder if Vander figured, "I'm not going to be on ESPN 15 times/year anymore".
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Vander will not be announcing anything tomorrow.
Really???
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ESPN's Jason King:
Marquette's Vander Blue jumps into first place on my "Most Baffling NBA draft decisions" list.
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+2
If there's one thing a stud, underclassman PG needs to succeed and take the load off it's solid big men. MU has that next year. Between Otule, Gardner and Wilson, they should be able to take a load off the PGs...barring some of them can hit an open J. God...I forgot about Steve Taylor too. I mean...if you are the freshman, it's all about paint touches even more so now.
Get it down low, kick it out and penetrate or hit the open J.
I definitely see Ewing Theory opportunity here.
This is well put. Potentially, MU's offense next season could have turned into Vander trying to make himself shine, boost his draft stock, not get teammates involved. Now everyone will have to be involved more, much more organic than it may have been.
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ESPN's Jason King:
Marquette's Vander Blue jumps into first place on my "Most Baffling NBA draft decisions" list.
If you are Vander, what do you think when you see CBS and ESPN writers saying that stuff? Or just ignore the media all together?
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Wow--we just went from a top 10 pre-season team for next year to be scarmling to make the top 25. Somehow, a potential starting lineup at Guard of De. Wilson and Todd Mayo is not awe inspiring.
Du. Wilson and Triple J better be getting many minutes next year, because the Guard spot will be needing lots of help.
Four guys gone from the team in two weeks does take your breath away. Likely 3 of them would not have seen many minutes, and now there is not much talent still available to recruit for next season. Hopefully Buzz can still attract one stud.
I haven't given up on Mayo completely yet this is an if, and a big if, but if he has gotten his act together finally and can spend the entire summer working on his game and go through Buzz's boot camp he could finally start to use some of the potential we all saw in flashes during his freshman year. If he can stay out of Buzz's doghouse maybe this is the playing time chance he needed.
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If you are Vander, what do you think when you see CBS and ESPN writers saying that stuff? Or just ignore the media all together?
One would hope he'd think "hmm .. did someone say I have until midnight to pull my name?"
But probably not.
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If you are Vander, what do you think when you see CBS and ESPN writers saying that stuff? Or just ignore the media all together?
I don't know who is advising him but sometimes kids get bad advice. Agents will tell you anything because they are only looking out for themselves, they are just trying to find someone who may sneak into the draft so they get paid.
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I haven't given up on Mayo completely yet this is an if, and a big if, but if he has gotten his act together finally and can spend the entire summer working on his game and go through Buzz's boot camp he could finally start to use some of the potential we all saw in flashes during his freshman year. If he can stay out of Buzz's doghouse maybe this is the playing time chance he needed.
Wasn't there a tournament game in which Todd didn't even play?
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Wasn't there a tournament game in which Todd didn't even play?
He didn't play against Miami, he did against Syracuse but played poorly. Like I said who knows if he can do it but it was hard to find minutes for him once he came back in an already crowded rotation.
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If you are Vander, what do you think when you see CBS and ESPN writers saying that stuff? Or just ignore the media all together?
I hope (and suspect) that Vander has been talking to and consulting with people who know a bit more than CBS and ESPN writers. If he hasn't taken those initial steps (i.e., if he's just taking a shot in the dark here), then I can't imagine he's going to be terribly interested in what some writers say.
I wish him nothing but the best of luck.
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ESPN's Jason King:
Marquette's Vander Blue jumps into first place on my "Most Baffling NBA draft decisions" list.
That's the 3rd analyst that has publicly questioned the decision (seth davis, king, goodman). Also including Hunt and his NBA source. Someone posted that his family wanted him to stay in school. If there's any truth to the argument between buzz/blue, then obvious buzz thought he should stay too. Who the hell is advising blue???
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I think it's a bad decision, as I think almost all of us do, but that said, we're making these judgments without the benefit of knowing Vander's family circumstances and need for financial help.
It may turn out that he knows very well that his NBA chances are slim but making $80,000 or whatever playing in France or Turkey is better than playing for free at Marquette.
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If you are Vander, what do you think when you see CBS and ESPN writers saying that stuff? Or just ignore the media all together?
He's thinking I've been doubted by two fanbases since I was 16 years old. How'd that work out?
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He's thinking I've been doubted by two fanbases since I was 16 years old. How'd that work out?
No he hasn't.
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Come on. We're all selfishly wanting him to come back in the first place. I can't fault him 1% for making this decision and I honestly don't know how much improved his stats would be this coming year. There's no telling that he would make two game winning shots and score 29 in the second round of the tournament either. He's at an all-time high now. He gets drafted either year... maybe higher next year. But if he feels it and goes for it, then so be it. Sucks, but I am excited to see how everything transpires now.
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He's thinking I've been doubted by two fanbases since I was 16 years old. How'd that work out?
If anything, he was a bit overrated as a 16 year old.
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Mark me down as someone who thinks this is a huge plus for our program.
While I do think we would have been a better team in 2013-14 with Van (and Juan FWIW), I fully embrace the team's culture of next man up. Let's face it, this was a better 'team' than last year's with Jae and DJO, and those guys were both better than Van. And all signs point to having more in the incoming players as a whole than this year's team and I don't think it out of line to say that we could have as much success next year without Van as with him.
I think Mayo takes the next step (not much to couch that opinion in other than I know the talent is there) and we are really set at all the other positions on the team.
Bottom line is this is what prospects want to see, a chance to go to the NBA, and seeing a guy go early is even more to like. Obviously every fan would like to see all players stay for four years and reach the maximum development for their team. But thats just not how it is in today's college game.
This is just one more sign of Marq trending to elite program status.
And for the folks all bent out of shape of "the reason why these kids go to college", its in part to prepare them for a professional career, whatever that career is. In this case, for Van, its basketball. I don't think anyone would argue Marq hasnt done that, with considerable work on his part. If someone offered some computer IT genius who was a junior a mulit million dollar job in the corp world and their left their junior year, would you think differently about their decision and Marq's role in shaping that person for the future?
Well said - agreed
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No he hasn't.
Yes, he was. That is all.
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Come on. We're all selfishly wanting him to come back in the first place. I can't fault him 1% for making this decision and I honestly don't know how much improved his stats would be this coming year. There's no telling that he would make two game winning shots and score 29 in the second round of the tournament either. He's at an all-time high now. He gets drafted either year... maybe higher next year. But if he feels it and goes for it, then so be it. Sucks, but I am excited to see how everything transpires now.
Vander isn't going to be drafted this year, but probably would have been next year. If he is drafted, it would be second round, and I highly doubt he will make a roster.
It's just disappointing to see a kid clearly improve every year since being in college and then just leave when there's a lot he could still do to improve his game. Lots of potential still there and I hope it doesn't get lost overseas.
Also, word was he consulted with former MU players. If that is true, he most likely consulted with guys who were drafted BECAUSE they came back for a senior year.
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Also, word was he consulted with former MU players. If that is true, he most likely consulted with guys who were drafted BECAUSE they came back for a senior year.
Must have not spoken with DJames...
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He had to have talked to Wesley, so I assume Wesley at a minimum didn't strongly advise him to wait a year.
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I tend to withhold judgement when MU players are entering the draft. Just think of the some of the more recent draftees of Matthews, Butler, Hayward and Crowder. 3 out of the 4 are contributors in the NBA. The NBA draft is kind of a mockery it is based on potential more than anything.
Blue works his tail off and Marquette has gotten a good reputation in the NBA thanks to the players mentioned above. Butler didn’t have a jump shot and he has developed one and is starting to look like Chicago’s starting 2. Vander Blue will be on an NBA roster at the start of next year.
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I tend to withhold judgement when MU players are entering the draft. Just think of the some of the more recent draftees of Matthews, Butler, Hayward and Crowder. 3 out of the 4 are contributors in the NBA. The NBA draft is kind of a mockery it is based on potential more than anything.
Blue works his tail off and Marquette has gotten a good reputation in the NBA thanks to the players mentioned above. Butler didn’t have a jump shot and he has developed one and is starting to look like Chicago’s starting 2. Vander Blue will be on an NBA roster at the start of next year.
On the money. It is a perfectly fair statement to say that players coming out of MU have developed a very positive reputation in the 5 years Buzz Williams has been here. As someone correctly pointed out above, Vander's draft success or failure will likely be determined in the Pre-draft camps and workouts as it was with the aforementioned players.
As I said earlier also, when I see draft projections containing names like Russ Smith, Pressey, Larkin, etc., I have no doubt that when those guys are stacked up against eachother, i believe a guy like Blue will differentiate himself between now and draft day, in much the same way Crowder, DJO, Butler etc. did.
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some people owe wrkn an apology. thank you for your service to this board.
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I was working and just heard about this a half-hour ago.
I'm not shocked.
Vander has had this as a goal since before he switched from Bucky to MU. Now, he sees the opening after an outstanding finish to his season and he is going for it.
It's difficult to make it in the NBA, especially for those with Vander's size and skill sets. Lots of great college players have failed. I doubt he will be a first-round draft pick, and if you aren't a first-round pick, it is a long, difficult road. Then again, I admit I didn't think Jimmy would be a first-rounder, either. And I absolutely didn't think Lazar would. At this point, it's all just speculation. For one thing, none of us knows squat about the number and quality of foreign-born players who will be available.
I agree with those who think Vander would have benefited from another year in college but I am not at all surprised that he has the confidence in himself to think otherwise. It was that same confidence that let him make all those great plays down the stretch.
As for our program, I am excited to see what some of the freshmen can do. Buzz is reluctant to use freshmen, but maybe this will force his hand a little. Maybe it will force his hand a lot, if Duane and JJJ prove to be ready for prime time.
I was amazed at how well we did this year without Jae, without DJO and without being able to make 3-pointers. So I am done predicting doom and gloom just because of who isn't coming back. Go Marquette!
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Good luck Vander! Godspeed!!
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Yes, he was. That is all.
Memo: A small handful of fans on a message board does not equal a fan base.
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some people owe wrkn an apology. thank you for your service to this board.
Agreed on the apology. I owe him one too.
Now that Vander has announced, he is telling folks that it has to do with the difference in the strength of the draft this year versus next. He feels he has a good shot (better shot) this year due to a weaker draft.
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Good for Vander. Don't agree with his decision but he has worked hard for himself and this university. I doubted him, sorry Vander. You developed into a stud this year.
Congratulations, Thanks, and Good Luck!
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Agreed on the apology. I owe him one too.
Now that Vander has announced, he is telling folks that it has to do with the difference in the strength of the draft this year versus next. He feels he has a good shot (better shot) this year due to a weaker draft.
He is absolutely right. This is maybe the weakest draft in nba history. I would trade my lottery pick if I had one and save the cap space.
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some people owe wrkn an apology.
They do but I ask him for no lurid pictures please . :P
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I'm so inspired by this that I'm going to follow Vander's lead and announce my eligibility for the 2013-2014 NBA draft as well.
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Can't have Jamil leave now. That's the important thing from here on out.
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"Vander Blue, G, Jr. Marquette
Blue had a breakout season as a junior, averaging 14.8 PPG. He is a terrific athlete who can guard multiple positions and exudes the sort of toughness we've come to expect from Marquette players. He's coming off a strong NCAA tournament run that helped carry Marquette to the Elite Eight. However, he still lacks a consistent perimeter jumper and is considered undersized for a 2-guard. Most likely, he's a second-round pick. But some scouts project him as a big point guard, so there's a chance he sneaks into the first round."
Chad Ford
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"Vander Blue, G, Jr. Marquette
Blue had a breakout season as a junior, averaging 14.8 PPG. He is a terrific athlete who can guard multiple positions and exudes the sort of toughness we've come to expect from Marquette players. He's coming off a strong NCAA tournament run that helped carry Marquette to the Elite Eight. However, he still lacks a consistent perimeter jumper and is considered undersized for a 2-guard. Most likely, he's a second-round pick. But some scouts project him as a big point guard, so there's a chance he sneaks into the first round."
Chad Ford
I think this is spot on analysis.
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Sounds like Buzz and MU caught off guard...(no pun intended)
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/marquettes-vander-blue-taking-his-shot-at-the-nba-eq9ivqr-203228131.html
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Agreed on the apology. I owe him one too.
Now that Vander has announced, he is telling folks that it has to do with the difference in the strength of the draft this year versus next. He feels he has a good shot (better shot) this year due to a weaker draft.
So there was a fight in the weight room with Buzz....I knew it.
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Is it possible the mock drafts don't include Vander because they saw no chance of him declaring?
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So there was a fight in the weight room with Buzz....I knew it.
Kinda interesting. Blue's been spending a lot of time the past couple of days hanging out in the study hall at the Al.
I know you are being sarcastic.....doesn't seem like Blue would hang out near Buzz's office if there was some tension.
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Who's Derrick Anderson? More journalistic brilliance from the ever lazy JS Beat writer.
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Of course, whether or not Blue gets drafted can be (and will be, I suppose) debated for the next two and half months until the end of June rolls around.
I think we can all agree his selection would improve the Marquette brand overall.
What is he doesn't get drafted? Does this have any impact on a guy like Looney or Stone? Does the understand shift from "elite program with players good enough to declare early" to "program who's best player (and two-time buzzer-beater) can't even make it in the league"???
Trying to see how an un-drafted Vander would affect the psyche of an 18 year-old and his opinion of MU.
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Vander needs to higher an agent. Anyone have any idea where he is looking to sign?
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Vander needs to higher an agent. Anyone have any idea where he is looking to sign?
Who is Wesley's agent?
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Who is Wesley's agent?
I read in an old article that Lance Young at Excel Sports Management was his agent.
http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/index.ssf/2011/11/agent_for_wesley_matthews_inve.html (http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/index.ssf/2011/11/agent_for_wesley_matthews_inve.html)
Not sure if that is still the case because I can't find Wes on the website.
http://www.excelsm.com/page/nba-clients (http://www.excelsm.com/page/nba-clients)
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"Vander Blue, G, Jr. Marquette
Blue had a breakout season as a junior, averaging 14.8 PPG. He is a terrific athlete who can guard multiple positions and exudes the sort of toughness we've come to expect from Marquette players. He's coming off a strong NCAA tournament run that helped carry Marquette to the Elite Eight. However, he still lacks a consistent perimeter jumper and is considered undersized for a 2-guard. Most likely, he's a second-round pick. But some scouts project him as a big point guard, so there's a chance he sneaks into the first round."
Chad Ford
I thought Ford had him #76, undrafted or maybe late 2nd?
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Vander needs to higher an agent. Anyone have any idea where he is looking to sign?
Jay-Z
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Who is Wesley's agent?
Wes' current agent is Jeff Austin. He works for Octagon.
http://www.draftexpress.com/agents/Jeff-Austin-52/
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No more dominoes please! Only incoming great news!
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No more dominoes please! Only incoming great news!
Translate in english please. "blue was the one i had RT"
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Best of luck, Blue. Represent us well. Let's move on.
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Translate in english please. "blue was the one i had RT"
RT means he was retweeting what the person said to him. Last night, PT tweeted that it was possible not all the dominoes had fallen regarding the roster. The person wanted to know if Blue's declaration was what PT was talking about and that was a confirmation that yes, Blue to the NBA was what they were predicting last night.
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RT means he was retweeting what the person said to him. Last night, PT tweeted that it was possible not all the dominoes had fallen regarding the roster. The person wanted to know if Blue's declaration was what PT was talking about and that was a confirmation that yes, Blue to the NBA was what they were predicting last night.
ahhh, makes sense, thanks Brew.
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Is it possible the mock drafts don't include Vander because they saw no chance of him declaring?
Ummmmm.....if a player is good enough to declare, the mocks will have him in until they know 100% whether he is staying or going. The mocks just don't think Vander is NBA material.
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Decades in advance, this GI JOE PSA amazingly foretold our sentiments to this event
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phFgCLguSNI
Buzz was probably like "give him the stick.. DON'T GIVE HIM THE STICK!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWWbPb7-ZnQ
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Ummmmm.....if a player is good enough to declare, the mocks will have him in until they know 100% whether he is staying or going. The mocks just don't think Vander is NBA material.
And yet the same mocks have him as a first-rounder in next year's deeper draft? Mmmmmmmmmmright. SB Nation says he's a late first round pick. Chad Ford said today he's either a late first rounder or a value in the early second.
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What are the chances he pulls a McNeal and comes back?
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What are the chances he pulls a McNeal and comes back?
You mean James? It depends. I've heard he's hired an agent, and if that's the case, he's gone. Once you hire an agent it's over. But if he has merely said he's going and not submitted the paperwork, he has until April 28th to do so (pretty sure that's the date).
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And yet the same mocks have him as a first-rounder in next year's deeper draft? Mmmmmmmmmmright. SB Nation says he's a late first round pick. Chad Ford said today he's either a late first rounder or a value in the early second.
source?
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You mean James? It depends. I've heard he's hired an agent, and if that's the case, he's gone. Once you hire an agent it's over. But if he has merely said he's going and not submitted the paperwork, he has until April 28th to do so (pretty sure that's the date).
Pretty sure McNeal tested the waters after junior year, got feeback, then came back for a stellar senior year. Too bad that same route isn't available anymore.
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You mean James? It depends. I've heard he's hired an agent, and if that's the case, he's gone. Once you hire an agent it's over. But if he has merely said he's going and not submitted the paperwork, he has until April 28th to do so (pretty sure that's the date).
I believe he only has until 11:59 tonight if he hasn't hired an agent. You have until the 28th to declare, but today is the cutoff for pulling out and retaining your eligibility.
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Yes. McNeal said he was going and came back (didn't hire agent, obviously). Hope something magical can happen with Van.. Although that sounds pretty selfish.
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And yet the same mocks have him as a first-rounder in next year's deeper draft? Mmmmmmmmmmright. SB Nation says he's a late first round pick. Chad Ford said today he's either a late first rounder or a value in the early second.
Ford said he's a second rounder that might sneak into the first
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And yet the same mocks have him as a first-rounder in next year's deeper draft? Mmmmmmmmmmright. SB Nation says he's a late first round pick. Chad Ford said today he's either a late first rounder or a value in the early second.
It's one of the questions I posed to the head of DraftExpress...will have conclusive answer tonight.
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Ford said he's a second rounder that might sneak into the first
That's right...mixed my articles. Anyway...
As is, Blue is considered a late first-rounder, or if a team is lucky, an early second-rounder.
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/4/16/4230346/vander-blue-nba-draft-marquette
Vander Blue, G, Jr. Marquette
Blue had a breakout season as a junior, averaging 14.8 PPG. He is a terrific athlete who can guard multiple positions and exudes the sort of toughness we've come to expect from Marquette players. He's coming off a strong NCAA tournament run that helped carry Marquette to the Elite Eight. However, he still lacks a consistent perimeter jumper and is considered undersized for a 2-guard. Most likely, he's a second-round pick. But some scouts project him as a big point guard, so there's a chance he sneaks into the first round.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2013/story/_/page/InOut-2013/2013-nba-draft-list
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No, he hasn't, but I think that saying any talk of him going is "nonsense" and calling for people to "officially stop this Vander to the NBA stuff" and deal with reality goes well beyond questioning the efficacy of his declaring.
As Goodman, mock drafts, ESPN, and others have said today....they are all surprised because it's a head scratcher. In my view, it's nonsense and I think he's making a poor decision. Looks like I'm hardly alone based on what many in the press are writing today. I hope to be proven wrong, but you are right, I didn't factor in someone thinking they are better than they are and leaving despite what seems to be the correct decision. I think he's a sure fire draft pick in 2014, I hope I am proven wrong and he made the right decision. Otherwise, nonsensical.
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Van reminds me a little of Tony Wroten. Wroten is only slightly taller than Van and had an atrocious 16.1% 3pt % in his 1 year at UW. He has Vander in speed and is slightly more athletic but I think the two compare well.
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Is it possible the mock drafts don't include Vander because they saw no chance of him declaring?
That's exactly what I was thinking, because he had already been relegated to the 2014 mocks instead.
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I think he's a sure fire draft pick in 2014, I hope I am proven wrong and he made the right decision. Otherwise, nonsensical.
I think most of the 2014 mocks expect him to improve at least a little. But what if he doesn't? Not saying he gets worse, but what if this, right now, is the peak of his abilities? Wouldn't those same mocks (and i'd have to assume, your opinion as well) would change and not have him drafted very high, if at all? Especially since next year's draft is much tougher.
I'm not saying him going this year is necessarily the right decision, for him or certainly MU, but if this is as good as it gets for him, aren't his chances better this year?
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This was a very risky decision for him to make. Hopefully it works out for him. Unfortunately, next year's outlook isn't as bright as it once looked. Still expect us to be able to get to where we were this year, next year.
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RT means he was retweeting what the person said to him. Last night, PT tweeted that it was possible not all the dominoes had fallen regarding the roster. The person wanted to know if Blue's declaration was what PT was talking about and that was a confirmation that yes, Blue to the NBA was what they were predicting last night.
Thanks! I was at the gym. I posted PT's tweet last night about one more domino falling. I am just hoping the exit of players is done (hopefully Jamil stays) and we get some great news about a player or two we are going to get.
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And yet the same mocks have him as a first-rounder in next year's deeper draft? Mmmmmmmmmmright. SB Nation says he's a late first round pick. Chad Ford said today he's either a late first rounder or a value in the early second.
OK, so interesting discussion with a friend of mine at DraftExpress. They put people in their mock that they believe are coming out or there is any possibility of him coming out based on feedback from GMs, etc. They did not think Vander was coming out and neither did the GMs they spoke to, that's why he wasn't in their mock. I asked him if it was fair to say he was surprised and the answer was YES. Consistent with what some of Hunt's sources and others in the media have said.
So, they might still ultimately put him in this mock draft for 2013, but they did not anticipate him coming out which is why he wasn't in this year's mock. They concentrate on who they know is coming out or who is widely considered to come out....thus why so much surprise from so many that he has put his hat in the ring.
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Who's Derrick Anderson? More journalistic brilliance from the ever lazy JS Beat writer.
SHHHHH! He is Buzz's secret weapon..... ::)
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OK, so interesting discussion with a friend of mine at DraftExpress. They put people in their mock that they believe are coming out or there is any possibility of him coming out based on feedback from GMs, etc. They did not think Vander was coming out and neither did the GMs they spoke to, that's why he wasn't in their mock. I asked him if it was fair to say he was surprised and the answer was YES. Consistent with what some of Hunt's sources and others in the media have said.
So, they might still ultimately put him in this mock draft for 2013, but they did not anticipate him coming out which is why he wasn't in this year's mock. They concentrate on who they know is coming out or who is widely considered to come out....thus why so much surprise from so many that he has put his hat in the ring.
Well now they know he is coming out and can't wait until their updated mock. They are the best mock draft around.
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Just here to say I told ya'll,
and I hope Vander does well in the NBA.
WRK5923's bold prediction: Vander goes Late 1st round.
You heard it here first, just like the Vander declaring news!
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OK, so interesting discussion with a friend of mine at DraftExpress. They put people in their mock that they believe are coming out or there is any possibility of him coming out based on feedback from GMs, etc. They did not think Vander was coming out and neither did the GMs they spoke to, that's why he wasn't in their mock. I asked him if it was fair to say he was surprised and the answer was YES. Consistent with what some of Hunt's sources and others in the media have said.
So, they might still ultimately put him in this mock draft for 2013, but they did not anticipate him coming out which is why he wasn't in this year's mock. They concentrate on who they know is coming out or who is widely considered to come out....thus why so much surprise from so many that he has put his hat in the ring.
Exactly why I thought he wasn't on 2013 drafts, because nobody thought he was coming out. Good to here this though from your DraftExpress source.
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WRK92, WRK922, WRK5923 and whatever, Good call and I eat crow for your first posts.
If prediction #2 is correct, I eat it again. But, thats a bold prediction. Good work.
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Just here to say I told ya'll,
and I hope Vander does well in the NBA.
WRK5923's bold prediction: Vander goes Late 1st round.
You heard it here first, just like the Vander declaring news!
I second that bold prediction. And yes I thought you were trolling as well but it seems you actually did know something others didn't.
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Buzz was probably like "give him the stick.. DON'T GIVE HIM THE STICK!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWWbPb7-ZnQ
LOL! This is by far my favorite one.
Is that supposed to be Blue saying "you're not my dad" at the end?
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Just here to say I told ya'll,
and I hope Vander does well in the NBA.
WRK5923's bold prediction: Vander goes Late 1st round.
You heard it here first, just like the Vander declaring news!
Are you saying that your prediction is figuratively bold or merely pointing out that it is literally bold?
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Buzz says he might look for another freshman to bring in, might not be worth it as all top 100 recruits are committed, unless we can somehow get the number one recruit at the last minute...
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OK, so interesting discussion with a friend of mine at DraftExpress. They put people in their mock that they believe are coming out or there is any possibility of him coming out based on feedback from GMs, etc. They did not think Vander was coming out and neither did the GMs they spoke to, that's why he wasn't in their mock. I asked him if it was fair to say he was surprised and the answer was YES. Consistent with what some of Hunt's sources and others in the media have said.
So, they might still ultimately put him in this mock draft for 2013, but they did not anticipate him coming out which is why he wasn't in this year's mock. They concentrate on who they know is coming out or who is widely considered to come out....thus why so much surprise from so many that he has put his hat in the ring.
So Vander not being in 2013 mocks had NOTHING to do with his potential draft spot in 2013, but merely they didn't even consider him. He, theoretically, could be the #1 pick, but because they didn't think he was coming until 2014 means that he wasn't on the mocks. Therefore, any use of the 2013 mocks, until now, as evidence that he shouldn't come out is totally garbage.
Interesting to see what the revised mocks have after considering him.
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Are you saying that your prediction is figuratively bold or merely pointing out that it is literally bold?
I took it both ways.
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Mark me down as someone who thinks this is a huge plus for our program.
While I do think we would have been a better team in 2013-14 with Van (and Juan FWIW), I fully embrace the team's culture of next man up. Let's face it, this was a better 'team' than last year's with Jae and DJO, and those guys were both better than Van. And all signs point to having more in the incoming players as a whole than this year's team and I don't think it out of line to say that we could have as much success next year without Van as with him.
I think Mayo takes the next step (not much to couch that opinion in other than I know the talent is there) and we are really set at all the other positions on the team.
Bottom line is this is what prospects want to see, a chance to go to the NBA, and seeing a guy go early is even more to like. Obviously every fan would like to see all players stay for four years and reach the maximum development for their team. But thats just not how it is in today's college game.
This is just one more sign of Marq trending to elite program status.
And for the folks all bent out of shape of "the reason why these kids go to college", its in part to prepare them for a professional career, whatever that career is. In this case, for Van, its basketball. I don't think anyone would argue Marq hasnt done that, with considerable work on his part. If someone offered some computer IT genius who was a junior a mulit million dollar job in the corp world and their left their junior year, would you think differently about their decision and Marq's role in shaping that person for the future?
Plus a million!!!!
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Just here to say I told ya'll,
and I hope Vander does well in the NBA.
WRK5923's bold prediction: Vander goes Late 1st round.
You heard it here first, just like the Vander declaring news!
You still standing by your weight room tiff with Buzz and Vander? :o
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So Vander not being in 2013 mocks had NOTHING to do with his potential draft spot in 2013, but merely they didn't even consider him. He, theoretically, could be the #1 pick, but because they didn't think he was coming until 2014 means that he wasn't on the mocks. Therefore, any use of the 2013 mocks, until now, as evidence that he shouldn't come out is totally garbage.
Interesting to see what the revised mocks have after considering him.
Not necessarily. They go hand in hand in many respects....chicken and egg. If they don't think you are coming out because you aren't good enough to come out yet....then they aren't going to rate you. I have an interview with their head guy tonight, so what I stated earlier was from a buddy of mine that does work for them....their head guy might disagree with that assessment.
Will know more later tonight.
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Not necessarily. They go hand in hand in many respects....chicken and egg. If they don't think you are coming out because you aren't good enough to come out yet....then they aren't going to rate you. I have an interview with their head guy tonight, so what I stated earlier was from a buddy of mine that does work for them....their head guy might disagree with that assessment.
Will know more later tonight.
If all analysts are convinced that a player isn't coming out, they won't waste time putting them in any mock, regardless of the reason. You didn't clarify a reason. You simply stated he wasn't included in the mocks because they thought he would stay.
Their head guy might agree with your adjusted assessment. Based on your original statement, my statement was spot on. This was backed up by my hypothetical - if he could have been the #1 in 2013, but the analysts were convinced he wasn't coming out, they wouldn't have wasted their time putting him in the mock. Period.
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Not necessarily. They go hand in hand in many respects....chicken and egg. If they don't think you are coming out because you aren't good enough to come out yet....then they aren't going to rate you. I have an interview with their head guy tonight, so what I stated earlier was from a buddy of mine that does work for them....their head guy might disagree with that assessment.
Will know more later tonight.
I look forward to it.
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Not necessarily. They go hand in hand in many respects....chicken and egg. If they don't think you are coming out because you aren't good enough to come out yet....then they aren't going to rate you. I have an interview with their head guy tonight, so what I stated earlier was from a buddy of mine that does work for them....their head guy might disagree with that assessment.
Will know more later tonight.
Sounds like a set up for equivocation. If Vander goes undrafted, the story can be, "see, we told you he was no good". If he is drafted, the line will be "We knew he was good, but our sources told us he was staying".CYA, and you're always right. Makes them even more unreliable and worthless than a coach's preseason poll.
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If all analysts are convinced that a player isn't coming out, they won't waste time putting them in any mock, regardless of the reason. You didn't clarify a reason. You simply stated he wasn't included in the mocks because they thought he would stay.
Their head guy might agree with your adjusted assessment. Based on your original statement, my statement was spot on. This was backed up by my hypothetical - if he could have been the #1 in 2013, but the analysts were convinced he wasn't coming out, they wouldn't have wasted their time putting him in the mock. Period.
Jesu, I'll know more tonight. I didn't write everything he told me, it's a bit more nuanced than that.
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Sounds like a set up for equivocation. If Vander goes undrafted, the story can be, "see, we told you he was no good". If he is drafted, the line will be "We knew he was good, but our sources told us he was staying".CYA, and you're always right. Makes them even more unreliable and worthless than a coach's preseason poll.
Resource allocation is part of it. Or, it could just be they don't think he's good enough to be drafted as many "sources" and GMs the press have talked to today have also said. You can spin it any way you want....it's already been proven time and time again what a piece of crap the preseason poll is...40% + aren't even ranked at the end of the year. They should become weathermen with that terrible of a record.
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Jesu, I'll know more tonight. I didn't write everything he told me, it's a bit more nuanced than that.
Fair enough
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Just here to say I told ya'll,
and I hope Vander does well in the NBA.
WRK5923's bold prediction: Vander goes Late 1st round.
You heard it here first, just like the Vander declaring news!
Easy there scooter, don't get hurt patting yourself on the back. ;)
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You still standing by your weight room tiff with Buzz and Vander? :o
Absolutely, I think you guys over-analyzed what I said. Obviously, there's no way to prove it, but whatever.