Fine, upstanding, young, white Christian men

[Lennys Tap]

Indeed, brand, some of the most "Christian" folks I know are atheists!

Hooray for atheists! F#ck Christians! Unity!!!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Hooray for atheists! F#ck Christians! Unity!!!

I don't think that's what 82 said at all. l think his point is that our sh*t stinks just as much as anybody else's be they atheist, agnostic, catholic, protestant, muslim, jew, or worshipers of the flying spaghetti monster. What we say believe doesn't matter....its the actions that show what believe that matter. In our country today, muslim and atheist are often used with a negative connotation. Muslims are associated with terrorists and atheists are considered amoral. I mean can you ever imagine a known muslim or an open atheist successfully running for president in today's climate? They are unfairly associated with minority groups who have committed terrorist and amoral actions. But when white christian boys commit a heinous act, people are told to "not make it about race or religion." If a person who was raised Muslim committed these same actions, people would be calling them terrorists and using it as fuel for a travel ban or building a wall.

The reality is, anyone who commits an act like these men are accused of cannot honestly call themselves a Christian. Just as anyone who commits an act of terrorism cannot honestly call themselves a Muslim.

[MU82]

I don't think that's what 82 said at all. l think his point is that our sh*t stinks just as much as anybody else's be they atheist, agnostic, catholic, protestant, muslim, jew, or worshipers of the flying spaghetti monster. What we say believe doesn't matter....its the actions that show what believe that matter. In our country today, muslim and atheist are often used with a negative connotation. Muslims are associated with terrorists and atheists are considered amoral. I mean can you ever imagine a known muslim or an open atheist successfully running for president in today's climate? They are unfairly associated with minority groups who have committed terrorist and amoral actions. But when white christian boys commit a heinous act, people are told to "not make it about race or religion." If a person who was raised Muslim committed these same actions, people would be calling them terrorists and using it as fuel for a travel ban or building a wall.

The reality is, anyone who commits an act like these men are accused of cannot honestly call themselves a Christian. Just as anyone who commits an act of terrorism cannot honestly call themselves a Muslim.

Thank you for getting it and explaining it beautifully, TAMU.

We have some people really itchin' for a fight here. I have no idea how Lenny came up with what he did based on what I said.

[Benny B]

Thank you for getting it and explaining it beautifully, TAMU.

We have some people really itchin' for a fight here. I have no idea how Lenny came up with what he did based on what I said.

To many Christians, atheism is basically a middle finger to them (and vice versa) Let me summarize the general sentiment:

"You tell me I'm wrong [because I believe in something you say can't exist] yet you provide no proof to back up your position?"

Now flip this over, and you have atheism's primary complaint against the faithful.  Either way, the simple mention of faith or atheism to the other in an adverse matter presumes insult.

Essentially, atheism and faith are a "he-said-she-said".... neither can prove themselves right or the other wrong.  And while some of the faithful do try to push their religion on anyone they can (some branches of religion more than others), most are very private with their religion and don't evangelize; on the other hand, it would seem that just as many atheists are not ones to miss an opportunity to throw shade at the faithful when it arises either.  So both stake claim to moral superiority despite standing on a cheese moon.

That being said,

 

These are great reasons to knock religion. I don't think that 82 or I have even mocked any person who is truly living a christian life.

I will concede that the OP was not mocking religion in general but simply pointing out hypocrisy.  Which, ok, fine, I get that.  But hypocrisy exists everywhere... if you're only going to point it out when it fits a certain mold, you have to expect that people are going to think you're pushing an agenda.  And with that being the case, you have to expect that some will challenge or retaliate.  But to act baffled when people react accordingly or that they "didn't get the point," there's a term for that, but I don't want to offend the lawyers on the board.

IMO - Atheism and faith exist on the same intellectual plane.  If anyone gets to play high-and-mighty, it's the agnostics, because whether you prove them right or wrong, it always turns out that they were right. 

So all y'all can take your Jesus, or your not-Jesus, and go straight to hell.... if it exists, which I'm not saying it does.  But if it does, well... you know.... go straight there and stuff.  Or not.  Whatever.  I don't care.

[B. McBannerson]

Well first, people would have pointed out that this has nothing to do with sports, or MU, so has no business on this board. 

Then, people would likely point out that the man's religion is largely unknown, but up to at least 1-year ago, he was attending the Christian church that he ended up shooting people at.  So he was at least Christian in the past.  So your title would make no sense whatsoever.

Next, they would have pointed out that the man was immediately arrested and charged with murder, instead of being allowed to remain in school and compete in football, after writing an essay. 

Finally, if you didn't get that the title by MU82 was written in jest/satire of the mission of the University these disgusting individuals attended, then I'm sorry, but a little thought before attacking is always helpful.

Nice job of deflecting, and trying to bring up a topic that has no business here.

Many topics here have nothing to do with sports.  Satire / jest gives one a free pass to post this stuff? Nice try defending.  It was inappropriate, and you know it.  The topic header was meant to drive an agenda and stir the pot, nothing more.

[GGGG]

Many topics here have nothing to do with sports.  Satire / jest gives one a free pass to post this stuff? Nice try defending.  It was inappropriate, and you know it.  The topic header was meant to drive an agenda and stir the pot, nothing more.

Gosh you're right!  There used to be this guy Chicos that did this all of the time.  What ever happened to him?

[Lennys Tap]

Gosh you're right!  There used to be this guy Chicos that did this all of the time.  What ever happened to him?

Agreed. The OP was Chiconian and TAMU's defense of it was vintage rocket/Boo Boo.

Self awareness is in short supply on both sides.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Agreed. The OP was Chiconian and TAMU's defense of it was vintage rocket/Boo Boo.

Self awareness is in short supply on both sides.

Instead of hurling insults would you like to explain what you took issue with in my post? I think it was pretty fair and balanced.

[Lennys Tap]

Instead of hurling insults would you like to explain what you took issue with in my post? I think it was pretty fair and balanced.

A bunch of moronic bubba football players viciously hazed one of their own - somehow 82 turns a disgusting anecdote into a diatribe about race, religion and privilege, even managing to do little Chiconian name dropping (he's had long conversations with Dusty Baker, doncha know - and no greater authority than the Dustman himself has assured Mike that in 'Merica it's ALWAYS about race) to drive home a point that didn't have much to do with the story.

Somehow you construed Mike's post as a simple declaration that everybody's sh#t stinks, black, white, christian and muslim. Nobody that I know has ever denied this but I don't know what it had to do with Mike's intentionally incendiary post. This reminded me of when rocket would miss the real point of a Chico diatribe but would reconfigure it (in a kinder, gentler way) to be able to agree with something he thought maybe Chico meant. For this, Mike nicknamed him Boo Boo.

IMHO the OP was misleading and overtly political (like many of Chico's posts that 82 would criticize). IMHO your defense of 82's post was reminiscent of the type that rocket wrote in defense of Chico that 82 would mercilessly mock (Boo Boo).

I like Mike and I like you. I don't mean to be "hurling insults". But dueling anecdotes of hypocrisy, outrage, etc. (identity politics period) from right or left has gotten out of hand on Scoop.

[Jockey]

To many Christians, atheism is basically a middle finger to them (and vice versa) Let me summarize the general sentiment:

"You tell me I'm wrong [because I believe in something you say can't exist] yet you provide no proof to back up your position?"

Now flip this over, and you have atheism's primary complaint against the faithful.  Either way, the simple mention of faith or atheism to the other in an adverse matter presumes insult.

Essentially, atheism and faith are a "he-said-she-said".... neither can prove themselves right or the other wrong.  And while some of the faithful do try to push their religion on anyone they can (some branches of religion more than others), most are very private with their religion and don't evangelize; on the other hand, it would seem that just as many atheists are not ones to miss an opportunity to throw shade at the faithful when it arises either.  So both stake claim to moral superiority despite standing on a cheese moon.

That being said,

 
I will concede that the OP was not mocking religion in general but simply pointing out hypocrisy.  Which, ok, fine, I get that.  But hypocrisy exists everywhere... if you're only going to point it out when it fits a certain mold, you have to expect that people are going to think you're pushing an agenda.  And with that being the case, you have to expect that some will challenge or retaliate.  But to act baffled when people react accordingly or that they "didn't get the point," there's a term for that, but I don't want to offend the lawyers on the board.

IMO - Atheism and faith exist on the same intellectual plane.  If anyone gets to play high-and-mighty, it's the agnostics, because whether you prove them right or wrong, it always turns out that they were right. 

So all y'all can take your Jesus, or your not-Jesus, and go straight to hell.... if it exists, which I'm not saying it does.  But if it does, well... you know.... go straight there and stuff.  Or not.  Whatever.  I don't care.

Love the post, Benny. Sometimes  you are spot on.

My wife is Buddhist and I always love watching the reactions of "christians"  after she is asked about religion.

[Benny B]

Love the post, Benny. Sometimes  you are spot on.

My wife is Buddhist and I always love watching the reactions of "christians"  after she is asked about religion.

You should see the reactions I get when I tell people I'm a practicing agnostic Catholic; I swear I can hear the other people's brain cells rupturing when I tell them that.

[Lennys Tap]

You should see the reactions I get when I tell people I'm a practicing agnostic Catholic; I swear I can hear the other people's brain cells rupturing when I tell them that.

Intellectual honesty (short of a lightening bolt, near death experience, etc.)  demands agnosticism. Beyond that, we decide what we want to be.

[MerrittsMustache]

My wife is Buddhist and I always love watching the reactions of "christians"  after she is asked about religion.

You should see the reactions I get when I tell people I'm a practicing agnostic Catholic; I swear I can hear the other people's brain cells rupturing when I tell them that.

Do you often find yourselves being asked your religion? I couldn't tell you the last time I've had something like that come up in conversation. Then again, my religion is pretty standard and not something out of the ordinary that I'd attempt to work into conversation to get a reaction.

[naginiF]

Do you often find yourselves being asked your religion? I couldn't tell you the last time I've had something like that come up in conversation. Then again, my religion is pretty standard and not something out of the ordinary that I'd attempt to work into conversation to get a reaction.

This is all a matter of your POV - i frequently get asked about my religion because i don't take part in some ubiquitous Christian thing.  When i sit down for "God bless America" at a Royals game, when i excuse myself from the room when the Christian organization that supports one of the non profit boards i'm on starts a meeting with a prayer, when people pry into why my kids don't go to Kanakuk camp, "i notice on sympathy cards you always say that your thoughts are with someone and never your prayers", etc. 

The only time i work atheism into a conversation is when the other person is being a pompous ass, or condescending, about "non standard" beliefs.

[MerrittsMustache]

This is all a matter of your POV - i frequently get asked about my religion because i don't take part in some ubiquitous Christian thing.  When i sit down for "God bless America" at a Royals game, when i excuse myself from the room when the Christian organization that supports one of the non profit boards i'm on starts a meeting with a prayer, when people pry into why my kids don't go to Kanakuk camp, "i notice on sympathy cards you always say that your thoughts are with someone and never your prayers", etc. 

The only time i work atheism into a conversation is when the other person is being a pompous ass, or condescending, about "non standard" beliefs.

The examples that you gave may not be bringing up religion in a conversation but they all draw attention to yourself and your "non-standard beliefs." I don't mean to imply that you're doing something wrong. Do what you feel the need to do. Just an observation.

Also, people really question your signing of sympathy cards?! Bizarre.

[naginiF]

The examples that you gave may not be bringing up religion in a conversation but they all draw attention to yourself and your "non-standard beliefs." I don't mean to imply that you're doing something wrong. Do what you feel the need to do. Just an observation.

Also, people really question your signing of sympathy cards?! Bizarre.

The card thing happened once and it was bizarre.  One of my good friends at work at the time busted out laughing saying "i'm late for a meeting with my boss but i'm sticking around for this".

in all the scenarios that i used it is the Christian that is bringing up religion in a non religious setting not me.  I don't leave the room when a function at my kids school starts with a prayer because its an Episcopal school - but i'm not the one bringing attention to myself by not participating in a prayer (ish) activity outside of a religious environment, the person starting the prayer is bringing the attention by assuming everyone holds the same beliefs they do.

I should've added that 90% of the time people are totally cool with me excusing myself

[Jockey]

Do you often find yourselves being asked your religion? I couldn't tell you the last time I've had something like that come up in conversation. Then again, my religion is pretty standard and not something out of the ordinary that I'd attempt to work into conversation to get a reaction.

No - doesn't happen often. Hardly ever until the last year or so.

[Benny B]

Do you often find yourselves being asked your religion? I couldn't tell you the last time I've had something like that come up in conversation. Then again, my religion is pretty standard and not something out of the ordinary that I'd attempt to work into conversation to get a reaction.

Short answer is not often, but likely more than your average person... I have kids in Catholic school and let's just say that the nun who oversees the 2nd grade sacraments is very, very, very old school.  So most of my religion discussions have been among the kids' classmates' parents which mostly start up along the lines of "how far do we go along with this pre-Vatican II stuff" or reconciling Catholic teaching that's appropriate for today's world without losing meaning or getting the kids kicked out of school.

Outside that one time I took the shuttle from the hotel in Panama City on spring break, I have never been approached by someone and asked "what do you believe."

[rocket surgeon]

A bunch of moronic bubba football players viciously hazed one of their own - somehow 82 turns a disgusting anecdote into a diatribe about race, religion and privilege, even managing to do little Chiconian name dropping (he's had long conversations with Dusty Baker, doncha know - and no greater authority than the Dustman himself has assured Mike that in 'Merica it's ALWAYS about race) to drive home a point that didn't have much to do with the story.

Somehow you construed Mike's post as a simple declaration that everybody's sh#t stinks, black, white, christian and muslim. Nobody that I know has ever denied this but I don't know what it had to do with Mike's intentionally incendiary post. This reminded me of when rocket would miss the real point of a Chico diatribe but would reconfigure it (in a kinder, gentler way) to be able to agree with something he thought maybe Chico meant. For this, Mike nicknamed him Boo Boo.

IMHO the OP was misleading and overtly political (like many of Chico's posts that 82 would criticize). IMHO your defense of 82's post was reminiscent of the type that rocket wrote in defense of Chico that 82 would mercilessly mock (Boo Boo).

I like Mike and I like you. I don't mean to be "hurling insults". But dueling anecdotes of hypocrisy, outrage, etc. (identity politics period) from right or left has gotten out of hand on Scoop.

is that where that "nickname" came from?  i guess it's better than calling someone a racist
   so anytime someone agrees with another, they are a "boo-boo"?  is that how you guys think?  disagree with someone and go all "alinsky" on them?  pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, polarize it...pitiful

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

A bunch of moronic bubba football players viciously hazed one of their own - somehow 82 turns a disgusting anecdote into a diatribe about race, religion and privilege, even managing to do little Chiconian name dropping (he's had long conversations with Dusty Baker, doncha know - and no greater authority than the Dustman himself has assured Mike that in 'Merica it's ALWAYS about race) to drive home a point that didn't have much to do with the story.

Somehow you construed Mike's post as a simple declaration that everybody's sh#t stinks, black, white, christian and muslim. Nobody that I know has ever denied this but I don't know what it had to do with Mike's intentionally incendiary post. This reminded me of when rocket would miss the real point of a Chico diatribe but would reconfigure it (in a kinder, gentler way) to be able to agree with something he thought maybe Chico meant. For this, Mike nicknamed him Boo Boo.

IMHO the OP was misleading and overtly political (like many of Chico's posts that 82 would criticize). IMHO your defense of 82's post was reminiscent of the type that rocket wrote in defense of Chico that 82 would mercilessly mock (Boo Boo).

I like Mike and I like you. I don't mean to be "hurling insults". But dueling anecdotes of hypocrisy, outrage, etc. (identity politics period) from right or left has gotten out of hand on Scoop.

So you disagree with the assertion that when a person of color or a muslim commits a crime their race and religion is brought up, but when a white or christian person commits a crime their race and religion is usually ignored and when it is brought up people say "don't make this about race/religion"

[Jay Bee]

So you disagree with the assertion that when a person of color or a muslim commits a crime their race and religion is brought up, but when a white or christian person commits a crime their race and religion is usually ignored and when it is brought up people say "don't make this about race/religion"

Brought up by whom? How would you know if never brought up? Liberal media, helped by their social media warriors? Source?

[Benny B]

So you disagree with the assertion that when a person of color or a muslim commits a crime their race and religion is brought up, but when a white or christian person commits a crime their race and religion is usually ignored and when it is brought up people say "don't make this about race/religion"

When the crime is motivated by religion, I would think it's perfectly fine to talk about religion. Otherwise, it doesn't matter. 

[Lennys Tap]

So you disagree with the assertion that when a person of color or a muslim commits a crime their race and religion is brought up, but when a white or christian person commits a crime their race and religion is usually ignored and when it is brought up people say "don't make this about race/religion"

I think only wackos bring up a person's gender, sexual orientation, religion (or lack thereof) or color when they commit a violent crime that has nothing to do with any of the above. Are Christian individuals (or any individuals) who rape somebody hypocrites as well as pigs? Sure, but how is that newsworthy? How is religion (or lack thereof) relevant?

However, when muslims behead innocent women and children for the crime of not being muslims, go on an indiscriminate shooting spree while proclaiming "Allah Akbar", etc., etc., etc., their religion is brought up - because it's their motive for their actions. And I think that's a fair, even obvious, distinction.

[Jay Bee]

I think only wackos bring up a person's gender, sexual orientation, religion (or lack thereof) or color when they commit a violent crime that has nothing to do with any of the above. Are Christian individuals (or any individuals) who rape somebody hypocrites as well as pigs? Sure, but how is that newsworthy? How is religion (or lack thereof) relevant?

However, when muslims behead innocent women and children for the crime of not being muslims, go on an indiscriminate shooting spree while proclaiming "Allah Akbar", etc., etc., etc., their religion is brought up - because it's their motive for their actions. And I think that's a fair, even obvious, distinction.

I'm not trying to be insensitive here... but, Lenny's has a point. When someone screams "Allahu akbar", etc as they slit the throats of / drive the vans into / shoot bullets into innocent victims, religion comes into play, hey?

There are mentally ill nutcases out there. There are also religious fanatics that hate you because of your skin color or country of origin. Addressing the issue of them equally isn't anything but idiotic.

[naginiF]

I think only wackos bring up a person's gender, sexual orientation, religion (or lack thereof) or color when they commit a violent crime that has nothing to do with any of the above. Are Christian individuals (or any individuals) who rape somebody hypocrites as well as pigs? Sure, but how is that newsworthy? How is religion (or lack thereof) relevant?

However, when muslims behead innocent women and children for the crime of not being muslims, go on an indiscriminate shooting spree while proclaiming "Allah Akbar", etc., etc., etc., their religion is brought up - because it's their motive for their actions. And I think that's a fair, even obvious, distinction.

I'm in total agreement with you - call out the motivations for what they are.

In trying to understand those motivations I recently listened to a wellRED podcast (link below) where the guest gave a POV on the Muslim religion that i had not heard before and made me look through a different lens - not defending or justifying anything, just an interesting perspective which essentially is......a) the koran is very much advocates extreme measures, b) unlike the bible, the koran only has one book.  the bible has a (much more extreme) old testament and a much newer "more humanitarian" new testament, and c) the koran was written 600 years after the new testament.

That's all paraphrasing and not a justification for atrocity carried out on its behalf, but it does make you think "if Christianity was only 600/1000/2000 years old......what would Christians do to further it?" or "if the koran could incorporate 1000 years of human interaction/evolution overnight, would it evolve into a much kinder religion?"

IMHO the best way to combat islamic extremists is through information availability to expedite that evolution.

http://wellredpodcast.libsyn.com/28-fk-nazis-mona-shaikh-david-smalley