Fine, upstanding, young, white Christian men

[MU82]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-wheaton-college-football-hazing-met-20170918-story.html

Disgusting.

I hope these fine community leaders will receive the same punishment as a poor black man convicted of taking part in a gang rape ... but I strongly doubt it. Their rich mommies and daddies will be able to afford the best lawyers, and there will be puddles of crocodile tears in the courtroom.

College officials were so "deeply troubled" (their words, per a school statement) that they gave the criminals 50 whole hours of community service! Oh, and each had to write an "eight-page essay reflecting on their behavior." Talk about cruel and inhuman punishment!! Not only were they allowed to stay in school, they got to keep playing football there.

Praise God!

The freshman told investigators that he was placed in the back seat of a teammate's vehicle and held down by at least two players while others piled into the vehicle. After the vehicle began moving, the players played Middle Eastern music and made offensive comments about Muslims, according to the victim's account.

At one point, the players suggested to the freshman that he had been kidnapped by Muslims who wanted to fornicate with goats, the teen told investigators. They patted his foot and suggested he would be their "goat" for the evening, the records said.

As an aside, Americans are far more likely to be terrorized like this by their peers on college campuses than they are to be terrorized by Muslim terrorists.

And here's a serious question for the lawyers out there:

How do some alleged criminals get the luxury of turning themselves in when they feel like it? I notice this most often when it's famous people or politicians. It doesn't seem "regular" people -especially regular people of color - are afforded the same courtesies. The cops knock down their doors and they get their arses hauled off to jail.

[Jockey]

Well, we know the accused are white. The word "thugs" wasn't used in the article.

So, on the same day that I read about a deaf man being shot by cops for holding a stick, privileged "white trash" get to turn themselves in at "their" convenience.

Here's another fun "prank" by privleged white boys. Fun stuff.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/high-school-boys-make-rape-joke-at-breast-cancer-awareness-football-game_us_59c269fae4b0f22c4a8dfc51

If the cops wanna get their human target practice on a regular basis, how about spraying these low-lifes with some live ammo. The gene pool would be improved.

[MerrittsMustache]

This is a story about an awful, unacceptable incident on a college campus. No need to turn it into a race issue, MU82. If anything, this is more of a "privileged athlete" story.

The students should be expelled. Simple as that. I'd be interested to know what info the school had when they handed out their "punishments." I'd like to believe that an uber-Christian college like Wheaton didn't have the full story if they gave the student such weak penalties. If not, there are going to be quite a few administration job openings in the very near future.

[Galway Eagle]

Remember when hazing was fun? I have some great hazing stories I know some other non d1 athletes and frat boys have great hazing stories but sometime in the past few years it went from weird bonding to straight up torture

[B. McBannerson]

What does race or religion have to do with this.  If someone were to start a thread that had another race or religion in it, would it be allowed or tolerated?

These guys screwed up, they'll pay the price.  Sad that race and religion is brought into this.  Identity politics, ruinous for this country.

[GGGG]

What does race or religion have to do with this.  If someone were to start a thread that had another race or religion in it, would it be allowed or tolerated?

These guys screwed up, they'll pay the price.  Sad that race and religion is brought into this.  Identity politics, ruinous for this country.

Says the Christian white male who lies about his identity.

[MU82]

Says the Christian white male who lies about his identity.

Perfect.

[MU82]

This is a story about an awful, unacceptable incident on a college campus. No need to turn it into a race issue, MU82. If anything, this is more of a "privileged athlete" story.

The students should be expelled. Simple as that. I'd be interested to know what info the school had when they handed out their "punishments." I'd like to believe that an uber-Christian college like Wheaton didn't have the full story if they gave the student such weak penalties. If not, there are going to be quite a few administration job openings in the very near future.

MM, as Dusty Baker once told me during a long, very serious conversation (yes, that's right, I dropped Dusty's name, so shoot me): "Everything is about race."

See, white people don't see things that way. But I promise you that black people, especially those who have been arrested only for being black (or know somebody who has been), look at this story and the first thing they say is: "Look how those white boys got treated. They raped - RAPED HIM! - and they had to write an essay. I'm sure I'd be treated the same way."

As for an uber-Christian college not having the full story, perhaps ... but uber-Catholic parishes had many full stories and yet they kept letting priests molest little boys.

Sorry I'm so cynical about these kinds of stories, but it happens too damn often. And then you have the chicos of the world pretending it's something else.

[MerrittsMustache]

MM, as Dusty Baker once told me during a long, very serious conversation (yes, that's right, I dropped Dusty's name, so shoot me): "Everything is about race."

See, white people don't see things that way. But I promise you that black people, especially those who have been arrested only for being black (or know somebody who has been), look at this story and the first thing they say is: "Look how those white boys got treated. They raped - RAPED HIM! - and they had to write an essay. I'm sure I'd be treated the same way."

1) It's not a good idea to surmise what another person would think in a given situation let alone what an entire race would think, especially if you're not of that race.

2) Were those privileged white kids who had their actions swept under the rug at Baylor?

[jesmu84]

2) Were those privileged white kids who had their actions swept under the rug at Baylor?

No. But they were providing direct benefit to privileged white men

[Pakuni]

One really needs to understand Wheaton College to have a real grasp on what factors are at play here.
I think race and privilege have far less to do with this story than the intense desire of an insular, hyperconservative community to protect its image.

[GGGG]

One really needs to understand Wheaton College to have a real grasp on what factors are at play here.
I think race and privilege have far less to do with this story than the intense desire of an insular, hyperconservative community to protect its image.

I agree with this.  (I know multiple Wheaton alumni.)  But I do think privilege fueled by wealth allows it to be insular in that respect.

[Jockey]

One really needs to understand Wheaton College to have a real grasp on what factors are at play here.
I think race and privilege have far less to do with this story than the intense desire of an insular, hyperconservative community to protect its image.

I can't imagine that black boys who committed such a violent crime would be allowed to just drop by the police station at their convenience. I don't think the community would have tried to protect its image.

That is where this becomes about race. Black boys would never have gotten of with an eight page essay and a few days of community service as a punishment. This is a christian college that has winked at white thugs committing a violent assault. Black boys would never have been allowed to continue playing football even as their victim underwent numerous surgeries.

From an article in the Tribune: "Wheaton is an elite evangelical college located in a suburban enclave of Chicago. Its students are held to specific moral standards, signing a statement that they will not drink or smoke or engage in sex outside marriage."


Well their moral standards are much too low for a person like me who would never set foot on that campus.

[Jockey]

I think race and privilege have far less to do with this story than the intense desire of an insular, hyperconservative community to protect its image.

Actually, protecting their image would be if they had the balls to stand up for what they claim to be.

Instead they have reinforced their image as hypocritical liars.

[jficke13]

This just in: Bad thing happened, people to politicize it at 11:00.

[Pakuni]

I can't imagine that black boys who committed such a violent crime would be allowed to just drop by the police station at their convenience. I don't think the community would have tried to protect its image.

I think one only need look at the Baylor football program over the past decade, or any number of similar situations (Jameis Winston, Prince Shembo, etc.) to recognize that if you're an athlete you will receive special protections, regardless of your skin color. Allowing a suspect to turn him/herself in under these circumstances is not uncommon.

Honestly, I tend to agree without more often than not when we discuss matters of race around here, but in this particular case, there's nothing that indicates that these players would have been treated any differently by Wheaton College or DuPage County if they were black. The college didn't play this down because the kids are white. The college played it down because it didn't want any negative publicity about the school or its highly successful football program.

And FWIW ... repeatedly referring to male black college students as "black boys" is a bit, er, problematic.

[Jockey]

I think one only need look at the Baylor football program over the past decade, or any number of similar situations (Jameis Winston, Prince Shembo, etc.) to recognize that if you're an athlete you will receive special protections, regardless of your skin color. Allowing a suspect to turn him/herself in under these circumstances is not uncommon.

Honestly, I tend to agree without more often than not when we discuss matters of race around here, but in this particular case, there's nothing that indicates that these players would have been treated any differently by Wheaton College or DuPage County if they were black. The college didn't play this down because the kids are white. The college played it down because it didn't want any negative publicity about the school or its highly successful football program.

And FWIW ... repeatedly referring to male black college students as "black boys" is a bit, er, problematic.

You may be right, Pakuni.

BTW, I only used "black boys" here because I used "white boys" in my posts as well.  I do understand the implications if it were used in a stand-alone situation.

[MU82]

I think one only need look at the Baylor football program over the past decade, or any number of similar situations (Jameis Winston, Prince Shembo, etc.) to recognize that if you're an athlete you will receive special protections, regardless of your skin color. Allowing a suspect to turn him/herself in under these circumstances is not uncommon.

Honestly, I tend to agree without more often than not when we discuss matters of race around here, but in this particular case, there's nothing that indicates that these players would have been treated any differently by Wheaton College or DuPage County if they were black. The college didn't play this down because the kids are white. The college played it down because it didn't want any negative publicity about the school or its highly successful football program.

And FWIW ... repeatedly referring to male black college students as "black boys" is a bit, er, problematic.

I'm pretty sure this incident (and the handling of it) is not "about race." But I do believe there is a racial aspect to it, at least from those on the outside looking in.

You're right about the Baylor stuff, Jameis, etc. And I would contend that far too many whities see those incidents and the first thing they think of is out-of-control black athletes - especially if white girls are involved with them.

Meanwhile, here you have privileged white kids getting virtually no punishment at all for raping somebody. It doesn't seem it was alleged rape, either, but actual rape. It seems the criminals acknowledged it and accepted the lame-arse "punishment."

You've got tennis player James Blake being hauled off to jail just for being black ... and then you've got these white, "moral" Christians having to write essays after raping somebody.

I'm sorry, but I see the racial aspect of it.

I also see the horrific hypocrisy by the school officials. Sex is forbidden. But if you sodomize a peer, tsk tsk, write an essay. Stand up for unborn fetuses, but don't stand up for your living, breathing student. Etc, etc.

[Mutaman]

MM, as Dusty Baker once told me during a long, very serious conversation

Big Dusty fan- what were the circumstances? Was Daren there?

[MU82]

Big Dusty fan- what were the circumstances? Was Daren there?

No.

I was a sportswriter, he was a manager.

[MerrittsMustache]

You've got tennis player James Blake being hauled off to jail just for being black ... and then you've got these white, "moral" Christians having to write essays after raping somebody.

Just to clarify...James Blake was not "hauled off to jail just for being black." He was forcefully handcuffed because a witness wrongly identified him as a person of interest in a credit card scam who was staying in the same hotel.

Did the cop use excessive force? Probably, and that's why he lost his gun and badge. Did the cop use excessive force simply because Blake is a minority or did he use force because he had been told that the suspect was armed? Perhaps the cop is racist, perhaps he was simply doing his job, perhaps it's somewhere in between.

[Pakuni]

Just to clarify...James Blake was not "hauled off to jail just for being black." He was forcefully handcuffed because a witness wrongly identified him as a person of interest in a credit card scam who was staying in the same hotel.

Did the cop use excessive force? Probably, and that's why he lost his gun and badge. Did the cop use excessive force simply because Blake is a minority or did he use force because he had been told that the suspect was armed? Perhaps the cop is racist, perhaps he was simply doing his job, perhaps it's somewhere in between.

Perhaps we live in a culture that teaches us that the black man is inherently more dangerous than others, and sometimes such instances of excessive and unnecessary force are a result of that bias.

[Benny B]

I'm pretty sure this incident (and the handling of it) is not "about race." But I do believe there is a racial aspect to it, at least from those on the outside looking in.

You're right about the Baylor stuff, Jameis, etc. And I would contend that far too many whities see those incidents and the first thing they think of is out-of-control black athletes - especially if white girls are involved with them.

Meanwhile, here you have privileged white kids getting virtually no punishment at all for raping somebody. It doesn't seem it was alleged rape, either, but actual rape. It seems the criminals acknowledged it and accepted the lame-arse "punishment."

You've got tennis player James Blake being hauled off to jail just for being black ... and then you've got these white, "moral" Christians having to write essays after raping somebody.

I'm sorry, but I see the racial aspect of it.

I also see the horrific hypocrisy by the school officials. Sex is forbidden. But if you sodomize a peer, tsk tsk, write an essay. Stand up for unborn fetuses, but don't stand up for your living, breathing student. Etc, etc.

This is one doozy of a thread, but I have to agree with Pakuni here... there's no reason to inject race or class into the discussion unless you're looking for an excuse to push an agenda.  Hell, you can inject race into anything you want these days, so why cherry pick?

Now the hypocrisy thing... granted, you have a point there, a nice juicy infallible one at that.  But what does knocking people off their horses supposed to actually accomplish here?  Has society really devolved to the point where helping people means pointing fingers and denigrating others when they f*ck up?

By playing the race card here, you're marginalizing and distracting attention from the real issue.  Hazing is a real problem in our society that is blind to the color of race; at most, hazing is just an organized form of bullying, and like bullying, the consequences of hazing not only runs the entire spectrum from hurt feelings to death but usually don't manifest until it's too late.

[MU82]

Here's an incident that happened at a football game last week involving one of the top high schools in NC, a 3200-student public school in an affluent neighborhood. It involves students acting out - spitting at band members, drinking, swearing, using racial epithets, etc.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/education/article174904541.html

Given what we know so far, it looks to me like the school handled it pretty well. But some people - especially some black people - think the perpetrators got a break because they are at a rich, white school.

You have to read well down into the article to see the reaction of a teacher from a school with primarily black kids:

Kevin Poirier, a teacher at the majority black, high-poverty West Charlotte High noted that an Ardrey Kell parent was quoted in the WSOC report as saying the students deserve consequences for “their silly actions,” while his students would have been called “thugs.”

“If my students at West Charlotte did this, guess what ... the news story wouldn’t look like this,” Poirier wrote. “This is what White Privilege looks like.”

[real chili 83]

I'm just gonna guess......

In before the lock.