MLB 2017 Season

[MerrittsMustache]

"but he's a solid starter and far better than anything they have going forward."

How so?

Would you rather have Lackey/Butler/Montgomery in the rotation or Sonny Gray?

2018 Starting Rotation
Lester
Hendricks
Quintana
???
???

Again, Butler? Montgomery? You want Brett Anderson back? Rob Zastryzny? I'd much rather have Sonny Gray even if it means giving up Schwarber.

[Jockey]

The cubs still have a solid core of outfielders and trading their worst glove for a pitcher still seems quite likely.

Say what?????

If by solid, you mean one of the worst in MLB, then I guess you have a pointy.

Their corner outfielders are clearly the worst offensive pair of corners in the league - probably by far - and CF is nothing to write home about.

[MerrittsMustache]

Say what?????

If by solid, you mean one of the worst in MLB, then I guess you have a pointy.

Their corner outfielders are clearly the worst offensive pair of corners in the league - probably by far - and CF is nothing to write home about.

Have any data to back that up or are you just spouting off again? Remember to take Schwarber's numbers out since Unleash was talking about OF other than him.

[#UnleashSean]

The Cubs never intended to use Schwarber as a catcher.

? He caught 21 games in 2015. Was supposed to platoon in 2016 but tore his acl in game 2. He has even caught 5 innings this year as he tries to ease into it.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Would you rather have Lackey/Butler/Montgomery in the rotation or Sonny Gray?

2018 Starting Rotation
Lester
Hendricks
Quintana
???
???

Again, Butler? Montgomery? You want Brett Anderson back? Rob Zastryzny? I'd much rather have Sonny Gray even if it means giving up Schwarber.

I thought you were saying that Gray was clearly better than Lester, Quintana, and Hendricks.  Just a misunderstanding. 

[Vander Blue Man Group]

To say this about Gray, and ignore Schwarber's season shows an amazing ability to compartmentalize reality.

It's not ignoring or compartmentalizing anything.  If anyone is doing that it's you.   

Gray was horrendous last year and has been ok this year.  Is that the norm going forward or will he revert back to the pitcher he was his first few years?  Maybe he's the type that can be very successful without K'ing a bunch of guys but the luster has certainly come off him.  He's under team control through 2019. 

Schwarber has obviously been awful this year but he only has 555 career plate appearances and is under team control through 2021.  That type of power from the left side is hard to find and the front office believes he is a much better hitter than what he has shown thus far this season.

So no, it's not as obvious of a decision as you think it is. 

 

[buckchuckler]

It's not ignoring or compartmentalizing anything.  If anyone is doing that it's you.   

Gray was horrendous last year and has been ok this year.  Is that the norm going forward or will he revert back to the pitcher he was his first few years?  Maybe he's the type that can be very successful without K'ing a bunch of guys but the luster has certainly come off him.  He's under team control through 2019. 

Schwarber has obviously been awful this year but he only has 555 career plate appearances and is under team control through 2021.  That type of power from the left side is hard to find and the front office believes he is a much better hitter than what he has shown thus far this season.

So no, it's not as obvious of a decision as you think it is. 

 

Joe Borchard had some of the most immense power I have ever seen.  Dude just hit bombs.  Problem is, when you can't make contact, power doesn't matter at all.  As for your support of Schwarber, you could say the exact same things about Gray.  Slightly less team control, but is one season removed from a truly dominant campaign. 

But as I hope the cubs lose, I hope they don't acquire Gray.  I hope they keep SchwAAArber, keep scuffling at a .500-ish pace, I hope they keep looking up at the Brewers, and I hope they don't have anyone else to add to their rotation next season. 

Cheers!

Oh yeah-- What did I compartmentalize?

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Joe Borchard had some of the most immense power I have ever seen.  Dude just hit bombs.  Problem is, when you can't make contact, power doesn't matter at all.  As for your support of Schwarber, you could say the exact same things about Gray.  Slightly less team control, but is one season removed from a truly dominant campaign. 

But as I hope the cubs lose, I hope they don't acquire Gray.  I hope they keep SchwAAArber, keep scuffling at a .500-ish pace, I hope they keep looking up at the Brewers, and I hope they don't have anyone else to add to their rotation next season. 

Cheers!

Oh yeah-- What did I compartmentalize?

That's right - younger players with less than 600 career plate appearances never struggle or come back to be successful after being demoted to the minors.

And how on earth will the Cubs ever find a quality pitcher to fill out the rotation if they don't acquire Gray?!?!

[#UnleashSean]

That's right - younger players with less than 600 career plate appearances never struggle or come back to be successful after being demoted to the minors.

And how on earth will the Cubs ever find a quality pitcher to fill out the rotation if they don't acquire Gray?!?!

There are a lot of people on here who think when a young player has a bad year that their career is done.

[buckchuckler]

That's right - younger players with less than 600 c.areer plate appearances never struggle or come back to be successful after being demoted to the minors.

And how on earth will the Cubs ever find a quality pitcher to fill out the rotation if they don't acquire Gray?!?!

Another well reasoned,rational response.   
 

[Jockey]

Have any data to back that up or are you just spouting off again? Remember to take Schwarber's numbers out since Unleash was talking about OF other than him.

Seriously?

Tell me about the offensive exploits of Heyward, Almora, and Jay. At least Happ is somewhat decent.

There are more than a half dozen players with more HR than all 4 of those guys combined. Not one single guy is in the top 60 (just outfielders) in RC.

I would be interested in your list of worse offensive OFs than the Cubs.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Another well reasoned,rational response.   

How is it not?

You don't know nearly as much as you apparently think you do.

[buckchuckler]

How is it not?

You don't know nearly as much as you apparently think you do.

I know enough to know what I apparently need to know about knowing you.  I know. 

[buckchuckler]

Lots of smoke around Frazier to Boston.  A move would certainly make sense on both sides.

[MerrittsMustache]

Seriously?

Tell me about the offensive exploits of Heyward, Almora, and Jay. At least Happ is somewhat decent.

There are more than a half dozen players with more HR than all 4 of those guys combined. Not one single guy is in the top 60 (just outfielders) in RC.

I would be interested in your list of worse offensive OFs than the Cubs.

Cubs LF: 0.5 oWAR (21st)
Cubs CF: 1.2 oWAR (18th)
Cubs RF: 0.8 oWAR (18th)

Cubs LF: .751 OPS (14th)
Cubs CF: .754 OPS (14th)
Cubs RF: .727 OPS (25th)

Cubs OF WAA: 0.1 (17th)

Overall OF WAR: 3.4 (17th)

Far from being world-beaters but, even including Schwarber and all his struggles, the Cubs' OF are not among the league's worst.

[Jockey]

Cubs LF: 0.5 oWAR (21st)
Cubs CF: 1.2 oWAR (18th)
Cubs RF: 0.8 oWAR (18th)

Cubs LF: .751 OPS (14th)
Cubs CF: .754 OPS (14th)
Cubs RF: .727 OPS (25th)

Cubs OF WAA: 0.1 (17th)

Overall OF WAR: 3.4 (17th)

Far from being world-beaters but, even including Schwarber and all his struggles, the Cubs' OF are not among the league's worst.

You didn't really answer the question.

What team has a worse offensive OF than the Cubs?`And they would be ranked even lower if you exclude the games that their 3B played in LF.

I know it seems like I disagree with you a lot, but I really don't. I would guess I agree with 90% of your posts. I notice we tend to disagree on baseball and football issues cuz I'm a Packers/Brewers fan and you're a Bears/Cubs fan.

[MerrittsMustache]

You didn't really answer the question.

What team has a worse offensive OF than the Cubs?`And they would be ranked even lower if you exclude the games that their 3B played in LF.

I know it seems like I disagree with you a lot, but I really don't. I would guess I agree with 90% of your posts. I notice we tend to disagree on baseball and football issues cuz I'm a Packers/Brewers fan and you're a Bears/Cubs fan.

Bryant has played 9 games in the OF and hit .269 with 1 HR so he's hardly skewing the numbers. Also, the argument was without Schwarber so the numbers I presented would actually be improved.

To answer your question...

At least,
SF
Atl
Bal
SD
KC

[Vander Blue Man Group]

I know enough to know what I apparently need to know about knowing you.  I know.

[GB Warrior]

You didn't really answer the question.

What team has a worse offensive OF than the Cubs?`And they would be ranked even lower if you exclude the games that their 3B played in LF.

I know it seems like I disagree with you a lot, but I really don't. I would guess I agree with 90% of your posts. I notice we tend to disagree on baseball and football issues cuz I'm a Packers/Brewers fan and you're a Bears/Cubs fan.

I mean, I'm a Packers/Brewers fan, and the offensive numbers bear what they bear. Now, Schwarber is swinging at butterflies and Heyward is (inconcievably swinging as well as he has with the Cubs) back to hitting at a politician's pace. But one of them has hit enough dingers to offset and Jon Jay has been pretty good in center (and their best reliever). Heyward, independent of his god-awful contract, is average offensively, and very very good defensively. In baseball, the advanced stats are advanced stats are advanced stats.

I will, however, not let advanced stats tell me that Schwarber is not the worst defensive OF in the game today. Anything suggesting that is a result of small sample sizes or the inclusion of Domingo Santana in the sample set. 

[jsglow]

I honestly don't follow baseball nearly as closely as a lot of you guys, especially any teams beyond my Crew.  Obviously living in Chicago gives me some perspective on the Cubs but only casually.  So help me out here. Schwarber spent all of last year hurt but of course was a big story with his comeback for the WS.  And this year he has truly sucked so bad that the Cubs finally HAD to send him back to the minors to 'iron things out'.  Serious question.  Has he ever actually done things at the Major League level or is/was he one of those supposed 'can't miss' prospects that will simply be given a super long leash (deservedly so)?

To flip it around, I remember being pretty disappointed with Arcia's first 60 games last year.  I was thinking that if he was MKE's best prospect than maybe the future didn't look as bright as it was being painted.  Even early this year his stick was sorely lacking.  But since May we've seen what a great player he can be with more games under his belt.  Sure he'll struggle.  Sure he'll have defensive lapses.  But the top end of his ability is absolutely apparent at this point.  Not so with anything I've seen from Schwarber.

Edit:  So I looked up Schwarber's 2015 stats.  Pretty damn pedestrian although admittedly his call-up year as he played 69 games.  And we know the guy can't play a lick of D so he's got that going for him too.

[JWags85]

I honestly don't follow baseball nearly as closely as a lot of you guys, especially any teams beyond my Crew.  Obviously living in Chicago gives me some perspective on the Cubs but only casually.  So help me out here. Schwarber spent all of last year hurt but of course was a big story with his comeback for the WS.  And this year he has truly sucked so bad that the Cubs finally HAD to send him back to the minors to 'iron things out'.  Serious question.  Has he ever actually done things at the Major League level or is/was he one of those supposed 'can't miss' prospects that will simply be given a super long leash (deservedly so)?

To flip it around, I remember being pretty disappointed with Arcia's first 60 games last year.  I was thinking that if he was MKE's best prospect than maybe the future didn't look as bright as it was being painted.  Even early this year his stick was sorely lacking.  But since May we've seen what a great player he can be with more games under his belt.  Sure he'll struggle.  Sure he'll have defensive lapses.  But the top end of his ability is absolutely apparent at this point.  Not so with anything I've seen from Schwarber.

Edit:  So I looked up Schwarber's 2015 stats.  Pretty damn pedestrian although admittedly his call-up year as he played 69 games.  And we know the guy can't play a lick of D so he's got that going for him too.

He was ok in a limited sample size in that 2015 season, but then got VERY hot in the playoffs.  Hit .333, slugged almost .900, 5 HRs in 9 games.  Gave a lot of people excitement and hope for the 2016 season.  Then hurt his knee, but then he game back for the WS and was like out of a movie.  Hit over .400, .500 OBP, all after missing an entire year.

So I think the optimism and excitement was justified.  This wasn't just blind hope for a guy cause he was a high draft pick.  He'd produced multiple times on the brightest stage.  But yes, he's been atrocious this year, and yes he deserved to get sent down.  But at the same time, he's played less than 150 MLB games and has shown plenty of natural ability.   But I agree that he'll never been better than a below average fielder.  He's a prototypical DH.

[jsglow]

He was ok in a limited sample size in that 2015 season, but then got VERY hot in the playoffs.  Hit .333, slugged almost .900, 5 HRs in 9 games.  Gave a lot of people excitement and hope for the 2016 season.  Then hurt his knee, but then he game back for the WS and was like out of a movie.  Hit over .400, .500 OBP, all after missing an entire year.

So I think the optimism and excitement was justified.  This wasn't just blind hope for a guy cause he was a high draft pick.  He'd produced multiple times on the brightest stage.  But yes, he's been atrocious this year, and yes he deserved to get sent down.  But at the same time, he's played less than 150 MLB games and has shown plenty of natural ability.   But I agree that he'll never been better than a below average fielder.  He's a prototypical DH.

Good point.  I was a big fan of Mr. October back in the day.  Of course Schwarber has a very long way to go to be in that conversation.

[buckchuckler]

He's a prototypical DH.

Cmon man.  Don't insult him.  He is a natural LF  or C.  Just make sure to have the Benny Hill music for his highlight reel.

[buckchuckler]

I'm so sad VBMG doesn't like me.  Sad face.  Very sad face. 

By the way, VBMG, your childhood hero says hello.

[buckchuckler]

Bryant has played 9 games in the OF and hit .269 with 1 HR so he's hardly skewing the numbers. Also, the argument was without Schwarber so the numbers I presented would actually be improved.

To answer your question...

At least,
SF
Atl
Bal
SD
KC

I would say St. Louis has certainly been worse as well.