MLB 2017 Season

[Pakuni]

Reinsdorf claimed he was willing to spend big to get A-Rod but they came up a little short. I have my doubts about how close they actually got. I mean, Reinsdorf only reluctantly paid Jordan market value!

In all fairness, Reinsdorf paid Jordan $33 million in 1997-98 ... a year in which the salary cap was $26.9 million.
The next highest-paid player in the league that year was Patrick Ewing, at $20 million.
In 2016 dollars,Jordan's salary would have been worth a shade under $50 million. That's $19 million more than LeBron is getting paid this year as the highest-paid player in the league.
Heck, in actual dollars, Jordan's 1998 salary would make him the league's highest-paid player in 2017.

In 96-97, Jordan was paid $30 million (when the cap was $24 million), which is $46 million in today's dollars.
 

[Vander Blue Man Group]

In all fairness, Reinsdorf paid Jordan $33 million in 1997-98 ... a year in which the salary cap was $26.9 million.
The next highest-paid player in the league that year was Patrick Ewing, at $20 million.
In 2016 dollars,Jordan's salary would have been worth a shade under $50 million. That's $19 million more than LeBron is getting paid this year as the highest-paid player in the league.
Heck, in actual dollars, Jordan's 1998 salary would make him the league's highest-paid player in 2017.

In 96-97, Jordan was paid $30 million (when the cap was $24 million), which is $46 million in today's dollars.

Jordan deserved every penny and more.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

The White Sox made Albert Belle the highest-paid player in baseball when they signed him to a free-agent deal. So, yeah, there's a history of them being willing to put together exorbitant offers when they want to.

That said, I don't think the Sox would deviate so greatly from their rebuilding plan after just one year to sign Machado. I think they'll continue to go young and build from within for at least a couple more years and then, if/when they have a contender, they'll spend on free agents.
Looking way ahead, the potential 2020 free agent pool includes Nolan Arenado, Paul Goldschmidt, Jose Altuve, Madison Bumgarner, Michael Wacha, Gerrit Cole, Xander Boegarts, Rick Porcello, and Chris Sale (OK, maybe he's not a likely option).

I would say the chance of the majority of those guys actually making it to free agency is minimal.

And Michael Wacha sucks and belongs nowhere in that list.

[GGGG]

The idea that Reinsdorf is cheap is not really based in reality.  He may be overly loyal, but IMO he's not cheap.

[Pakuni]

I would say the chance of the majority of those guys actually making it to free agency is minimal.

Oh, strongly disagree here.
Unlike NFL and NBA, there's no disincentive in MLB for a player to wait and test the market, and most are strongly encouraged to do so by their agents. That doesn't mean they'll all be changing teams, but a majority will hit the market.

[🏀]

Thames, juicer.

[MU82]

In all fairness, Reinsdorf paid Jordan $33 million in 1997-98 ... a year in which the salary cap was $26.9 million.
The next highest-paid player in the league that year was Patrick Ewing, at $20 million.
In 2016 dollars,Jordan's salary would have been worth a shade under $50 million. That's $19 million more than LeBron is getting paid this year as the highest-paid player in the league.
Heck, in actual dollars, Jordan's 1998 salary would make him the league's highest-paid player in 2017.

In 96-97, Jordan was paid $30 million (when the cap was $24 million), which is $46 million in today's dollars.

Reinsdorf complained publicly about "having" to pay Jordan $30M plus.

Jordan made everybody around him rich - Pippen, Luc, Kerr, everyone - especially Reinsdorf.

Jordan would have gotten his money no matter where he was playing; Reinsdorf wouldn't have won a single ring if the Trail Blazers had taken Jordan and left Sam Bowie to the Bulls.

"Cheap" is a bad word to describe Reinsdorf. He has, after all, paid a lot of athletes a lot of money.

But he has chosen to take some dubious stands, including blowing up a six-time championship team so he didn't have to pay the luxury tax. It was as bad a basketball move as there ever has been, but it turned out to be a smart business move because for some reason Bulls fans kept selling out (numerically, if not with butts in seats) the United Center for some of the worst teams ever assembled.

Kornel David, we miss you!

[BM1090]

Thames, juicer.

Not sure if sarcastic, but this is stupid. His improvement is mostly because of vastly improved plate discipline

http://www.espn.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/78768/real-or-not-eric-thames-and-aaron-judge-will-keep-on-slugging

[wadesworld]

Thames, juicer.

No doubt.  Brewers should send all of their minor leaguers over to Japan for a couple years, PED it up, and come back ready to kick ass.

[wadesworld]

Not sure if sarcastic, but this is stupid. His improvement is mostly because of vastly improved plate discipline

http://www.espn.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/78768/real-or-not-eric-thames-and-aaron-judge-will-keep-on-slugging

And Jake Arrieta just went from someone who could stay in the MLB to the best pitcher of baseball in 1 year as a 28 year old because of a new pitching coach...

[BM1090]

And Jake Arrieta just went from someone who could stay in the MLB to the best pitcher of baseball in 1 year as a 28 year old because of a new pitching coach...

I think it's dumb to assume every improved professional baseball player got there because of PED's. Thames problem never was strength, or bat speed. It was because he couldn't lay off anything. Now he has incredible plate discipline.

MLB has the strictest drug testing procedures of any major sport. It has suspended guys like Braun and Marte, star players, for breaking the rules. I'm not going to assume that every good player is doing it illegally. In that case, we might as well assume every professional athlete in every sport is taking something.

[MerrittsMustache]

And Jake Arrieta just went from someone who could stay in the MLB to the best pitcher of baseball in 1 year as a 28 year old because of a new pitching coach...

Arrieta was a top 100 prospect for the Orioles so it wasn't like he completely came out of nowhere. He changed where he stood on the mound and threw significantly more strikes.

He pitched his last game for Baltimore on June 17 and he had a 7.23 ERA with 17 BB in 23.2 IP (6.5 BB/9) thru 5 starts.

His first Cubs start came on July 30. For the remainder of that season (9 GS), he had a 3.66 ERA with 24 BB in 51.2 IP (4.2 BB/9). In other words, his improvement was almost immediate upon joining the Cubs. Are you arguing that his pitching coach had nothing to do with this? Did he juice up for 6 weeks while in AAA?

[wadesworld]

I think it's dumb to assume every improved professional baseball player got there because of PED's. Thames problem never was strength, or bat speed. It was because he couldn't lay off anything. Now he has incredible plate discipline.

MLB has the strictest drug testing procedures of any major sport. It has suspended guys like Braun and Marte, star players, for breaking the rules. I'm not going to assume that every good player is doing it illegally. In that case, we might as well assume every professional athlete in every sport is taking something.

MLB players have always found a way to get around the rules and get a leg up on the competition.  From greenies to steroids to HGH to other PEDs.  Just because someone hasn't failed a pee test doesn't mean they aren't using PEDs.  Braun didn't use PEDs for the first time in his life in 2011.  He just got off of his cycle for the first time in his life and took them like a maniac assuming he would not be tested during the Playoffs.  I'm sure there are those out there who made it to the MLB and are there for a long time who have done it cleanly.  I'm also sure that they are in the minority.

[wadesworld]

Arrieta was a top 100 prospect for the Orioles so it wasn't like he completely came out of nowhere. He changed where he stood on the mound and threw significantly more strikes.

He pitched his last game for Baltimore on June 17 and he had a 7.23 ERA with 17 BB in 23.2 IP (6.5 BB/9) thru 5 starts.

His first Cubs start came on July 30. For the remainder of that season (9 GS), he had a 3.66 ERA with 24 BB in 51.2 IP (4.2 BB/9). In other words, his improvement was almost immediate upon joining the Cubs. Are you arguing that his pitching coach had nothing to do with this? Did he juice up for 6 weeks while in AAA?

Probably to the bolded, yes.

As far as being a highly ranked prospect, so what?  There comes a point when someone just isn't as good as they were expected.  That point typically comes before someone turns 28 years old.  Sorry, but that's just not when athletes suddenly develop.

If this pitching coach can really take some former high potential guy who has never done anything in his life and, without the benefit of a single offseason to work with the guy, turn him into one of the best pitchers in baseball, the Brewers need to pay him 10x whatever he's getting from the Cubs and bring him aboard immediately.  Give this guy Matt Garza for a couple days and we have a steal of a contract all of a sudden with him!

[BM1090]

If you'd like to assume that, that's fine. Different strokes. Agree to disagree.

Regarding Thames, how would PED's improve his plate discipline and reduce his chase rate by that extreme amount?

I'm not naive enough to think that nobody is juicing. But when an improvement comes with an increase in discipline, I'm willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt.

[GGGG]

I really doubt that it was PEDs that helped him improve that much in a six week timeframe in the middle of a season. 

[CTWarrior]

Man, Chris Sale is good.  Free agents always seem to stink the first year with the Red Sox, but he is tearing it up through four starts.  He's only 1-1, but his ERA is 0.91 and the Sox are 3-1 in his first four starts despite scoring only 3, 1, 2, and 1 thru 9 innings in them.

[DegenerateDish]

Man, Chris Sale is good.  Free agents always seem to stink the first year with the Red Sox, but he is tearing it up through four starts.  He's only 1-1, but his ERA is 0.91 and the Sox are 3-1 in his first four starts despite scoring only 3, 1, 2, and 1 thru 9 innings in them.

Not to nitpick, but he wasn't a free agent, traded for. He's used to that kind of run support from his White Sox days.

[CTWarrior]

Not to nitpick, but he wasn't a free agent, traded for. He's used to that kind of run support from his White Sox days.

Of course, I should have said big names rather than free agents.  Anyway, he has been great.

[MerrittsMustache]

Probably to the bolded, yes.

As far as being a highly ranked prospect, so what?  There comes a point when someone just isn't as good as they were expected.  That point typically comes before someone turns 28 years old.  Sorry, but that's just not when athletes suddenly develop.

If this pitching coach can really take some former high potential guy who has never done anything in his life and, without the benefit of a single offseason to work with the guy, turn him into one of the best pitchers in baseball, the Brewers need to pay him 10x whatever he's getting from the Cubs and bring him aboard immediately.  Give this guy Matt Garza for a couple days and we have a steal of a contract all of a sudden with him!

Arrieta didn't "develop" at age 28. He finally put it all together at age 28. The talent and stuff had always been there. With Bosio's help, he tweaked his mechanics, altered the grip on his slider and became a smarter pitcher who pitched to contact as opposed to just trying to strike everybody out.

Funny you mention Garza because he worked with Bosio in parts of 2012-13. His ERA with Bosio was 3.61 and he allowed 7.8 H/9. His ERA since then 4.54 with 9.5 H/9. Jason Hammel has a career 3.59 ERA with Bosio and a career 4.77 ERA with everyone else. Are those numbers merely coincidental or does Bosio perhaps know what he's doing?

[Pakuni]

Reinsdorf complained publicly about "having" to pay Jordan $30M plus.

Cite?

Jordan made everybody around him rich - Pippen, Luc, Kerr, everyone - especially Reinsdorf.

Well, I mean, Reinsdorf was worth well over nine figures before he even bought to Bulls, but it is true that Jordan's presence on the Bulls made him even richer.

Jordan would have gotten his money no matter where he was playing; Reinsdorf wouldn't have won a single ring if the Trail Blazers had taken Jordan and left Sam Bowie to the Bulls.

True story ... Portland would have taken Barkley ahead of Jordan.

But he has chosen to take some dubious stands, including blowing up a six-time championship team so he didn't have to pay the luxury tax.

No, no, no.
The NBA didn't even have a luxury tax until 2001, two years after Jordan's second retirement.
Also, Phil Jackson broke up the Bulls when he decided to leave the team, knowing that Jordan had repeatedly said publicly that he'd quit if Phil quit. Reinsdorf had offered both substantial raises to stay on for another year. They elected not to.

Kornel David, we miss you!

The Hungarian Jordan!

[Pakuni]

Of course, I should have said big names rather than free agents.  Anyway, he has been great.

I love me some Chris Sale, but this kind of start is pretty typical for him.
If I'm a BoSox fan, I'm worrying about this yearly late-season fade.

[GGGG]

No, no, no.
The NBA didn't even have a luxury tax until 2001, two years after Jordan's second retirement.
Also, Phil Jackson broke up the Bulls when he decided to leave the team, knowing that Jordan had repeatedly said publicly that he'd quit if Phil quit. Reinsdorf had offered both substantial raises to stay on for another year. They elected not to.

Wasn't there an issue with Pippen's contract coming due too?  He had signed a long-term contract that made him one of the highest paid players in basketball, but by the end of that contract he was severely underpaid.  (Bulls couldn't renegotiate due to CBA.)  It didn't seem like it was any single factor, but a combination of factors that came together at once.

[wadesworld]

Arrieta didn't "develop" at age 28. He finally put it all together at age 28. The talent and stuff had always been there. With Bosio's help, he tweaked his mechanics, altered the grip on his slider and became a smarter pitcher who pitched to contact as opposed to just trying to strike everybody out.

Funny you mention Garza because he worked with Bosio in parts of 2012-13. His ERA with Bosio was 3.61 and he allowed 7.8 H/9. His ERA since then 4.54 with 9.5 H/9. Jason Hammel has a career 3.59 ERA with Bosio and a career 4.77 ERA with everyone else. Are those numbers merely coincidental or does Bosio perhaps know what he's doing?

Sound like numbers of some guys who would have changed some mechanics and improved a bit.  But to go from a guy who went from being unable to find a spot in a major league rotation to the best pitcher in baseball?  Hmm...

Speaking of hmm... anybody else see Lackey's comments on Thames's homer off of him?  What a douche.  "I thought I threw a pretty good pitch.  You just don't see guys hit a ball that far to the opposite field on that pitch.  Just one of those things that just, uhh, makes you scratch your head. *wink*"  So when Schwarber's and Rizzo's and Bryant's bats heat up and they're hitting solid pitches out of the park is Lackey sitting in the dugout scratching his head?

[GGGG]

Sound like numbers of some guys who would have changed some mechanics and improved a bit.  But to go from a guy who went from being unable to find a spot in a major league rotation to the best pitcher in baseball?  Hmm...

Speaking of hmm... anybody else see Lackey's comments on Thames's homer off of him?  What a douche.  "I thought I threw a pretty good pitch.  You just don't see guys hit a ball that far to the opposite field on that pitch.  Just one of those things that just, uhh, makes you scratch your head. *wink*"  So when Schwarber's and Rizzo's and Bryant's bats heat up and they're hitting solid pitches out of the park is Lackey sitting in the dugout scratching his head?

Aren't you pretty much doing the same thing that Lackey is doing?