UCLA offered to double Jay Wright’s deal...he said no

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Now, you're free to say that their resume' makes them "non competitive" with Gonzaga over that period (I would very much disagree) but only if you acknowledge that the "little 8" of the Big East has been even more "non competitive" with Villanova over the same period.

This is the line of thinking I was trying to address. St. Mary's average is higher than the "little 8" because they are consistently good, not great. They finish in the mid 30s consistently never getting anywhere close to Gonzaga's level. On the other hand, Villanova regularly has challenges from Xavier, Butler, Georgetown, Marquette, and Creighton who have all gotten closer to Villanova than Saint Mary's has ever gotten to Gonzaga.

In the end, this is another one of those vocabulary arguments. You are supporting St. Mary's on their ability to be consistent even if they are never great. I'm supporting the Big East because their teams can reach higher heights than St. Mary's but are more inconsistent. That's fine, reasonable people can disagree.

[rocket surgeon]

What an incredible jerk.

I was simply replying to another poster - not trying to offer deep insight.

that was a great movie, enn'a? 

  Grandma Johnson: [reading a letter from Navin] My dear family, guess what? Today I found out what my special purpose is for. Gosh, what a great time I had. I wish the whole family could've been here with me. Maybe some other time as I intend to do this a lot. Every chance I get. I think next week I'll be able to send more money as I may have extra work. My friend Patty has promised me a blow job. Your loving son, Navin.

[brewcity77]

Brew,

I wouldn't disagree that there is usually a team in the Big East other than Villanova who is better than St Mary's. And i'm absolutely in agreement that the Big East, top to bottom, is much stronger than the WCC. All that said, 1. St Mary's, despite protestations to the contrary, is and has been a very competitive program for some time and 2. According to Pomeroy they have been, on average, better than each of the 9 teams in the Big East not named Villanova over the last 4 years.

#1 is the key, I only added #2 to show just how off the wall ridiculous it was for someone to say that St Mary's wasn't a competitive team/program.

How any of this is disingenuous eludes me.

Gonzaga and Villanova are fairly comparable programs in the past 6 years. Gonzaga has had more consistent NCAA success, Villanova has had the bigger runs, but both are safely consensus top-10 teams. I think that's fair to say. In that period, the WCC has had two other teams finish in Pomeroy's top-30. St. Mary's & BYU both did it once. In that same span, the Big East has had 14 teams not named Villanova finish in the top-30.

St. Mary's is a decent program. They would probably pretty safely be a middle-of-the-pack team if they played in the Big East, and that's nothing to be ashamed of. But just because they are generally the second best team in the WCC doesn't put them close to on par with Gonzaga.

[MU82]

Gonzaga and Villanova are fairly comparable programs in the past 6 years. Gonzaga has had more consistent NCAA success, Villanova has had the bigger runs, but both are safely consensus top-10 teams. I think that's fair to say. In that period, the WCC has had two other teams finish in Pomeroy's top-30. St. Mary's & BYU both did it once. In that same span, the Big East has had 14 teams not named Villanova finish in the top-30.

St. Mary's is a decent program. They would probably pretty safely be a middle-of-the-pack team if they played in the Big East, and that's nothing to be ashamed of. But just because they are generally the second best team in the WCC doesn't put them close to on par with Gonzaga.

Nailed it, brewski.

[Lennys Tap]

St. Mary's is a decent program. They would probably pretty safely be a middle-of-the-pack team if they played in the Big East, and that's nothing to be ashamed of. But just because they are generally the second best team in the WCC doesn't put them close to on par with Gonzaga.

Agree that St Mary's isn't close to on a par with Gonzaga - just as no other Big East team is close to on a par with Villanova. I think they would have finished between 2nd and 6th in the 6 year existence of the Big East and have the overall 2nd or 3rd best conference record behind Villanova and maybe/probably Xavier.

But, one last time, do they offer ZERO competition to Gonzaga? That's not your (or TAMU's) argument but the onebChico made. And that argument is insane. In 2016, they tied the Zags for the conference championship at 15-3. In 2017 and 2018 they were 16-2 in conference 1 game behind Gonzaga's 17-1. And I think they've beaten the Zags in the conference tournament a couple of times. That is beyond a doubt competing - and competing at a higher level with the conference leader on a par with Xavier and head and shoulders above the remainder of the big East teams.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Agree that St Mary's isn't close to on a par with Gonzaga - just as no other Big East team is close to on a par with Villanova. I think they would have finished between 2nd and 6th in the 6 year existence of the Big East and have the overall 2nd or 3rd best conference record behind Villanova and maybe/probably Xavier.

But, one last time, do they offer ZERO competition to Gonzaga? That's not your (or TAMU's) argument but the onebChico made. And that argument is insane. In 2016, they tied the Zags for the conference championship at 15-3. In 2017 and 2018 they were 16-2 in conference 1 game behind Gonzaga's 17-1. And I think they've beaten the Zags in the conference tournament a couple of times. That is beyond a doubt competing - and competing at a higher level with the conference leader on a par with Xavier and head and shoulders above the remainder of the big East teams.

Honestly, I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. I thought you were making a commentary about the strength of the Big East. I did not realize that you would invest this much energy into challenging Chicos just because he used obvious hyperbole when saying "absolutely no competition." Gonzaga is 272-30 (90.1%) in WCC play since Mark Few took over. They are 97-9 (91.5%) in the last 7 years. I don't think saying "absolutely no competition" is that unreasonable of a use of hyperbole.

[Lennys Tap]

Honestly, I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. I thought you were making a commentary about the strength of the Big East. I did not realize that you would invest this much energy into challenging Chicos just because he used obvious hyperbole when saying "absolutely no competition." Gonzaga is 272-30 (90.1%) in WCC play since Mark Few took over. They are 97-9 (91.5%) in the last 7 years. I don't think saying "absolutely no competition" is that unreasonable of a use of hyperbole.

It's actually a combination of two seta of facts. If St Mary's is no good, if St Mary's offers zero competition to Gonzaga (both false) what does that say about the Big East? Per Pomeroy, last year St Mary's was better than every team in the Big East, including Villanova. In 2017, they were better than everyone but Villanova. The LOWEST they've been ranked in the last 4 years is 34th in the nation. They tied Gonzaga for the conference championship in 2015 and finished one game back in 2017 and 2018. They beat the Zags this year (2019) for the conference tournament title, something they've now done 3 times in the last 10 years. Again, to characterize that as non competitive is insane.

[Jon]

It's actually a combination of two seta of facts. If St Mary's is no good, if St Mary's offers zero competition to Gonzaga (both false) what does that say about the Big East? Per Pomeroy, last year St Mary's was better than every team in the Big East, including Villanova. In 2017, they were better than everyone but Villanova. The LOWEST they've been ranked in the last 4 years is 34th in the nation. They tied Gonzaga for the conference championship in 2015 and finished one game back in 2017 and 2018. They beat the Zags this year (2019) for the conference tournament title, something they've now done 3 times in the last 10 years. Again, to characterize that as non competitive is insane.

This was all covered about 75 years ago. Notable Zag Bing Crosby starred in The Bells of St Mary's which foretold of the natural rivalry between those two great constituencies.

Fr O'Malley's constant sparring with Sr Benedict (Ingrid Bergman) crackled with a sexual tension that was palpable.

Frankly, in her prime, Ingrid Bergman was eminently doable. I would have enjoyed a dirty weekend with her.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

It's actually a combination of two seta of facts. If St Mary's is no good, if St Mary's offers zero competition to Gonzaga (both false) what does that say about the Big East? Per Pomeroy, last year St Mary's was better than every team in the Big East, including Villanova. In 2017, they were better than everyone but Villanova. The LOWEST they've been ranked in the last 4 years is 34th in the nation. They tied Gonzaga for the conference championship in 2015 and finished one game back in 2017 and 2018. They beat the Zags this year (2019) for the conference tournament title, something they've now done 3 times in the last 10 years. Again, to characterize that as non competitive is insane.

Some may argue that is insane to say that a team faces competition in conference when that team has won:
90.1% of its conference games the past 20 years
91.5% of its conference games the past 7 years
96.2% of its conference games the last 3 years
15/20 Conference tournaments
18/19 Conference regular season championships

I could be wrong, but my guess is you couldn't find a single conference that has been more dominated by 1 team in the modern era, possibly ever. Given that, I think a little harmless hyperbole about Gonzaga facing no competition in conference is reasonable. You don't which is fine.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I mean, Xavier just won the Big East regular season last year. I think the Big East is WAY more competitive than the WCC. Not really even close.

[brewcity77]

I did not realize that you would invest this much energy into challenging Chicos just because he used obvious hyperbole when saying "absolutely no competition."

I'm not sure any poster on this site gets wound around the axle more by another than you do by Chicos. Considering how strongly some feel/felt about guru, wades, & Sultan, that's honestly quite the feat. If CBB started posting things like "the world is round" or "the sky is blue."

I don't think the facts of the matter will persuade you that Gonzaga dominates their league in a fashion no other program can compare to. The only thing that might change your mind is if Chicos changed his.

[THRILLHO]

This is tedious even by the low low standards of scoop in the off season.

[MU82]

Jay Wright ... good Lowe's pitchman, or kind of lame?

[Silent Verbal]

Jay Wright ... good Lowe's pitchman, or kind of lame?

I think he’s perfect.  With his Philly accent, he comes across as the type of guy who’d do his own home improvements if he wasn’t rich enough to pay someone to do it for him.

[warriorchick]

I think he’s perfect.  With his Philly accent, he comes across as the type of guy who’d do his own home improvements if he wasn’t rich enough to pay someone to do it for him.

It's a better endorsement than the POS display for deodorant featuring Shaka Smart that was in my Walgreens right around the time we were recruiting him.

[MU82]

It's a better endorsement than the POS display for deodorant featuring Shaka Smart that was in my Walgreens right around the time we were recruiting him.

If only Mrs. Shaka had said what the woman in the old Irish Spring commercial used to say: "I like it, too!"

[Class71]

That's pretty crazy to turn down that kinda cash

See if this makes any sense.

If there is sufficient water to sustain life, life is good. If you have too much water, it is called a flood.

If there is sufficient money to sustain life, life is good. If you have too much money, it has little value and is treated as such. The point is money provides pleasure and happiness up to a point. For Jay Wright he recognizes his existing millions are sufficient and after that point money becomes less and less meaningful.

For some there is never enough money but in those cases money is not the real issue in their lives and more money will not scratch that itch.

[Cheeks]

It's actually a combination of two seta of facts. If St Mary's is no good, if St Mary's offers zero competition to Gonzaga (both false) what does that say about the Big East? Per Pomeroy, last year St Mary's was better than every team in the Big East, including Villanova. In 2017, they were better than everyone but Villanova. The LOWEST they've been ranked in the last 4 years is 34th in the nation. They tied Gonzaga for the conference championship in 2015 and finished one game back in 2017 and 2018. They beat the Zags this year (2019) for the conference tournament title, something they've now done 3 times in the last 10 years. Again, to characterize that as non competitive is insane.

I never said St. Mary's is no good, but Gonzaga has no competition in that league.  That is not insane or inaccurate.  Your comparisons of Ken Pom are equally weak, in my opinion.  St. Mary's may be consistently around 30 or whatever, but the Big East teams will come in and out (different ones) that are better to compete at a higher rate.  Any number of four or 5 schools.  Even schools lower on the list like St. John's can knock off MU or Villanova.....the 6th or 7th place schools in the WCC aren't knocking off Gonzaga.

In the last 19 years, they have won the league 18 times and finished second the other time.  They have no competition. 

[4everwarriors]

Wooda bin a lateral move. Bread kneeded ta double just ta keep up wit hyer cost of livin' in CA, hey?

[rocket surgeon]

Wooda bin a lateral move. Bread kneeded ta double just ta keep up wit hyer cost of livin' in CA, hey?

was thinking the same thing and traffic sucks the big one

we looked up the house we lived in 1959-1961, a 900 sq ft. match box in san diego.  it's fair market value is between $6-700,000 and property taxes are over $40K. 

[Cheeks]

was thinking the same thing and traffic sucks the big one

we looked up the house we lived in 1959-1961, a 900 sq ft. match box in san diego.  it's fair market value is between $6-700,000 and property taxes are over $40K.

Careful, 79 and Avid are going to divorce you.