What was Wojo's alternative?

[brewcity77]

brewcity

That is why you need a system. You recruit players that fit system. That is what Wojo has been lacking to install at MU, a true system. I agree, Sam is a perfect fit at VA..

I think Wojo's system has evolved. Initially, his plan was to maximize shooters and beat teams at the arc. Carlino, Rowsey, Howard, Sam, etc. But that led to defensive mismatches, so we've seen more length and wing athleticism added (Cain, Elliott, McEwen, Akanno, Torrence).

After being beat up down low the first couple years, he's also moved away from finesse inside players (Luke, Matt, Katin) in favor of bigger, stronger enforcer types like Theo, Ed, & Jayce.

Bennett definitely has a more established, clear system than Wojo, but I do think we're closer to seeing an established system. This is one of the drawbacks to hiring a first time head coach.

[MU82]

If someone does not want to be a Warrior, I don't want 'em.

Yep yep yep.

We are Marquette!

[Lennys Tap]

Depends who you talk to.  According to people with sources "as close to the Hausers as you can possibly get" Sam was "very pissed" after the Buffalo game.  For a guy who those same people claim is just someone who doesn't care about touches, just wants to win, and stopped having fun when the winning stopped, it's kind of odd he'd be pissed when his teammate put the entire team on his back and put up 40 points in a half to lead his team to a(nother) top 15 win.  I would bet my life that I will never see a Marquette team lose a game where a single one of their players scores 40 points in a single half by himself.  Yet the guy who isn't selfish, doesn't care about touches, and just wants to win was "pissed" after Markus single handedly took Marquette from a one point halftime lead to a route of top 15 Buffalo.

Odd.

So many "sources close to the Hausers" have been so wrong/contrdictory throughout this entire saga that I dismiss yours (and everyone else's) out of hand. I look only at facts. All we know for sure is that Sam and Joey were unhappy - unhappy enough to leave. The anti Hausers here think Sam left for the increased touches/shots he'll get with Tony Bennett. Joey left because he was a baby who couldn't handle criticism and went to play for Tom Izzo. For me, where they landed blows up both anti Hauser theories. So I looked for logical ones elsewhere.

[MU82]

So many "sources close to the Hausers" have been so wrong/contrdictory throughout this entire saga that I dismiss yours (and everyone else's) out of hand. I look only at facts. All we know for sure is that Sam and Joey were unhappy - unhappy enough to leave. The anti Hausers here think Sam left for the increased touches/shots he'll get with Tony Bennett. Joey left because he was a baby who couldn't handle criticism and went to play for Tom Izzo. For me, where they landed blows up both anti Hauser theories. So I looked for logical ones elsewhere.

What about those of us who are neither anti-Hauser nor anti-Wojo?

[wadesworld]

So many "sources close to the Hausers" have been so wrong/contrdictory throughout this entire saga that I dismiss yours (and everyone else's) out of hand. I look only at facts. All we know for sure is that Sam and Joey were unhappy - unhappy enough to leave. The anti Hausers here think Sam left for the increased touches/shots he'll get with Tony Bennett. Joey left because he was a baby who couldn't handle criticism and went to play for Tom Izzo. For me, where they landed blows up both anti Hauser theories. So I looked for logical ones elsewhere.

I haven’t shared a single word from my “sources.” These stories are from the “anti Wojo” sources. Sam loved winning so much that he wrote a petition behind the team’s best player’s back while the team sat at 23-5 trying to get Wojo to change the offense, not so he and baby bro could get more touches, but so Ed, Theo, Brendan, Sacar, Jamal, Heldt, and Touney got their fair shake at touching the basketball. And the final straw was an Instagram post, not by Wojo but by Markus.

[Lennys Tap]

What about those of us who are neither anti-Hauser nor anti-Wojo?

Those of us who are neither anti-Wojo or anti-Hauser will agree that a) it's Wojo's team and he can have them play any style he chooses - he'a the boss - and b) any player who is unhappy playing that style who can find one more to his liking should move on without being characterized in a negative manner (quitter, selfish, baby, whiner, pouter, mutineer, etc.).

[Cheeks]

Sam and Markus came in together and were teammates for three years together....correct?

[Ardmore Mug]

I haven’t shared a single word from my “sources.” These stories are from the “anti Wojo” sources. Sam loved winning so much that he wrote a petition behind the team’s best player’s back while the team sat at 23-5 trying to get Wojo to change the offense, not so he and baby bro could get more touches, but so Ed, Theo, Brendan, Sacar, Jamal, Heldt, and Touney got their fair shake at touching the basketball. And the final straw was an Instagram post, not by Wojo but by Markus.

Does anyone have a copy of that said Instagram ??

[tower912]

Pretty sure it was the one where he announced he was returning.

https://twitter.com/markushoward11/status/1116733521777840128

Supposedly, because it was all about him, this just deepened the rift.   72 hours later.....

[Pakuni]

Bottom line for Sam - a few more touches, a few less shots - assuming his profile is similar to 1st team AA Hunter or Guy. He went somewhere where there's more balance, more sharing, more team - not (IMO) for a few more touches (% wise) or a few less shots.

PotAYto, potAHto.
What you euphemistically label "more sharing" because it fits your narrative, anyone more objective would call more touches and more shots. The end result is the exact same  ... as your argument that the Hausers will see less usage ay UVa and MSU is almost certainly wrong, unless you see them fitting into even lesser roles there than they had at MU.

As I've said a million times, I won't criticize the Hausers for leaving because they wanted more shots. That's their call to make.
Why do you insist on creating other motivations for them? Would that, in your mind, contradict the narrative that they're good, team-first kids?

[Lennys Tap]

PotAYto, potAHto.
What you euphemistically label "more sharing" because it fits your narrative, anyone more objective would call more touches and more shots. The end result is the exact same  ... as your argument that the Hausers will see less usage ay UVa and MSU is almost certainly wrong, unless you see them fitting into even lesser roles there than they had at MU.

As I've said a million times, I won't criticize the Hausers for leaving because they wanted more shots. That's their call to make.
Why do you insist on creating other motivations for them? Would that, in your mind, contradict the narrative that they're good, team-first kids?

More usage - I'll concede. But why do you project Sam will get more shots? This year nobody on UVA shot the ball the ball as much per game as Sam did.

Now there are plenty of places Sam could have gone if more shots was the goal/reason for leaving. UVA in that scenario was a bad choice, so I don't see that as the motivation.

[MU82]

Those of us who are neither anti-Wojo or anti-Hauser will agree that a) it's Wojo's team and he can have them play any style he chooses - he'a the boss - and b) any player who is unhappy playing that style who can find one more to his liking should move on without being characterized in a negative manner (quitter, selfish, baby, whiner, pouter, mutineer, etc.).

Lenny, I don't know if Sam and/or Joey were selfish, babies, whiners, pouters, etc, so I think I have refrained from calling them that. They did both quit. I stopped using the term "quitter" because it offended Scoopers I respect, but the fact is that they did both quit Marquette.

That they went behind the team captain's back with that letter, even as the team was 23-5 (including 20-3 in their last 23 games) and ranked No. 10 in the nation, does indicate something more was going on besides wanting to win. They were winning.

I can see how some of our fellow Scoopers could say that the letter-writing campaign undermined both team unity and the coach's authority, and the situation contributed to the season going down the toilet after that. I can't conclude that with any certainty, however, just as I don't see how you or anybody else could conclude with certainty that the Hausers were totally unselfish and blameless.

In the end, the Hausers left and, despite rumors to the contrary, everybody else stayed to keep working with Markus and Wojo. That does not mean the other players disliked the Hausers and/or that they love Markus and Wojo, but it is at least a little telling to me. I am glad they stayed to honor their commitment and to help our Warriors have what we all hope will be a great 2019-20 season.

Only speaking for myself (though others have expressed similar sentiment), I admit that the Hausers choosing to go to schools other than F%ckyland softens any negative feelings I might have had about them.

Looking ahead, they simply do not matter to me. The situation that happened here in March/April/May was an interesting one and I will discuss it with you and others if moved to do so, but I don't "care" about the Hausers any more because they are not Warriors. I don't wish bad things upon them, but they mean no more to me now than any other Michigan State or Virginia player does.

I care about players and coaches who want to be Warriors. We are Marquette!

[Lennys Tap]

That they went behind the team captain's back with that letter, even as the team was 23-5 (including 20-3 in their last 23 games) and ranked No. 10 in the nation, does indicate something more was going on besides wanting to win. They were winning.

I can see how some of our fellow Scoopers could say that the letter-writing campaign undermined both team unity and the coach's authority, and the situation contributed to the season going down the toilet after that. I can't conclude that with any certainty, however, just as I don't see how you or anybody else could conclude with certainty that the Hausers were totally unselfish and blameless.

Agree with much of what you said but doesn't this assume an awful lot not in evidence? Went behind the captains back? Wrote the letter when the team was 23-5? I don't even know IF there was a letter, let alone what was in it, whether it summarized issues already discussed or when it was written. As I said, I've heard a lot about it - but most of what I've heard on this issue has been proven false. I won't comment on a (possible) letter until I've seen what's in it.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Agree with much of what you said but doesn't this assume an awful lot not in evidence? Went behind the captains back? Wrote the letter when the team was 23-5? I don't even know IF there was a letter, let alone what was in it, whether it summarized issues already discussed or when it was written. As I said, I've heard a lot about it - but most of what I've heard on this issue has been proven false. I won't comment on a (possible) letter until I've seen what's in it.

Agree on tge whole “letter” thing, so much of what comes out of these things is completely false.  Just look at the “silent verbal” to wisconsin, i put as much stock in that as i do in the “letter”.  As far as im concerned neither happened.  And it doesnt stand to reason, wtf on an athletic team writes a letter?  Doesnt make any sense to me.  If they did do that I would have liked to seen Wojo kick them off the team. 
Im so over it tho.  The Hausers leaving posts are pathetic, do all u guys participating in them still have pictures of ur old girlfriends on ur bathroom mirrors? Let it go, its pathetic that this board is still dominated by guys crying n debating about the Hausers leaving. 
Lastly, fvck the entire Hauser family.  Quitters n bi+ches is their legacy to me.

[rocket surgeon]

I haven’t shared a single word from my “sources.” These stories are from the “anti Wojo” sources. Sam loved winning so much that he wrote a petition behind the team’s best player’s back while the team sat at 23-5 trying to get Wojo to change the offense, not so he and baby bro could get more touches, but so Ed, Theo, Brendan, Sacar, Jamal, Heldt, and Touney got their fair shake at touching the basketball. And the final straw was an Instagram post, not by Wojo but by Markus.

Not sure if this was supposed to be teal, but, if not, that sounds a lot like “everybody gets a trophy” type thinking.  Most good athletes and competitors care about the WIN first and NOT about statistics.  I find it hard to believe Sam is in that latter. But...if that’s what your “sources you haven’t shared a single word from” tell you, then I guess it’s accurate

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Not sure if this was supposed to be teal, but, if not, that sounds a lot like “everybody gets a trophy” type thinking.  Most good athletes and competitors care about the WIN first and NOT about statistics.  I find it hard to believe Sam is in that latter. But...if that’s what your “sources you haven’t shared a single word from” tell you, then I guess it’s accurate

As Wades explained, that story is not what he heard from whoever his sources are. He is quoting other posters who have claimed on this board that this story is true. I think he would agree with you on the story's believability.

[rocket surgeon]

As Wades explained, that story is not what he heard from whoever his sources are. He is quoting other posters who have claimed on this board that this story is true. I think he would agree with you on the story's believability.

Ok, my apologies for misunderstanding-thank you! 

[rocket surgeon]

As Wades explained, that story is not what he heard from whoever his sources are. He is quoting other posters who have claimed on this board that this story is true. I think he would agree with you on the story's believability.

I guess I was honing in on the criticism thrown out there re: “ sources”.  I realize everyone wants to be “ the man” and know “ someone” or “something” before anyone else.  But I know my source was solid. I will, one day soon, find out exactly what happened or what went on behind the scenes and NOT share it with you guys .  My thoughts are that originally they were going to udub but underestimated the blow back and...??  Oh well.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I guess I was honing in on the criticism thrown out there re: “ sources”.  I realize everyone wants to be “ the man” and know “ someone” or “something” before anyone else.  But I know my source was solid. I will, one day soon, find out exactly what happened or what went on behind the scenes and NOT share it with you guys .  My thoughts are that originally they were going to udub but underestimated the blow back and...??  Oh well.

I know what happened. Either your source was wrong or you misinterpreted what you source said. Those are the only two options. It's not a bad thing, it happens all the time.

[rocket surgeon]

I know what happened. Either your source was wrong or you misinterpreted what you source said. Those are the only two options. It's not a bad thing, it happens all the time.

Nope, sorry, no disrespect but maybe when I find out fer sure, I will pm you 👍

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Nope, sorry, no disrespect but maybe when I find out fer sure, I will pm you 👍

There's no nope about it. You said they were going to Wisconsin. They didn't. You either got bad information or misunderstood the information. I don't mean any disrespect by it either, there's nothing bad about being mistaken on the internet. Hell, I said the Hauser/Howard tension was "making a mountain out of a molehill" the day before the Hausers transferred. Just because a source says something doesn't make it true.

[MU82]

Agree with much of what you said but doesn't this assume an awful lot not in evidence? Went behind the captains back? Wrote the letter when the team was 23-5? I don't even know IF there was a letter, let alone what was in it, whether it summarized issues already discussed or when it was written. As I said, I've heard a lot about it - but most of what I've heard on this issue has been proven false. I won't comment on a (possible) letter until I've seen what's in it.

Reasonable take. I thought it was already established that The Letter was a real thing. Maybe it was one of those deals where I read about it so much I assumed it was true.

[Mutaman]

Wojo's alternative was to hire a guy like Phil Martelli like Howard did. Suspect everyone would have been a lot better off.

[brewcity77]

Either your source was wrong or you misinterpreted what you source said.

I think there's a lot of that going on here, except with other people's sources. It sounds like people are restructuring the order of events in a way that reflects negatively on the Hausers.

I've heard two versions of events, both of which I believe have some elements of truth. There's two sides to the story. The first set of events came from the Hauser side, the more recent came from the Marquette side.

Neither side indicated the letter was written at 23-5. It may not change anyone's opinion, but everyone I heard that from said the letter came at 23-8 after we lost 4 straight but before the Big East Tournament.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I think there's a lot of that going on here, except with other people's sources. It sounds like people are restructuring the order of events in a way that reflects negatively on the Hausers.

I've heard two versions of events, both of which I believe have some elements of truth. There's two sides to the story. The first set of events came from the Hauser side, the more recent came from the Marquette side.

Neither side indicated the letter was written at 23-5. It may not change anyone's opinion, but everyone I heard that from said the letter came at 23-8 after we lost 4 straight but before the Big East Tournament.

I don't know about any of this, I was simply pointing out the obvious that the Hausers didn't end up in Madison.