Kevin O'Neill available: did MU move too quickly with Buzz?

[Warrior of Law]

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/ua/

I don't know if he'd have come back, but it's worth a daydream in the off-season...

[ecompt]

I wouldn't think either party would look to reunite.

[madtownwarrior]

would you really want that foul mouth, program jumping ahole representing MU again?

[lurch91]

He's the proverbial guy I'd have a beer with, but wouldn't let him date my sister - EVER!

He's a very entertaining and fun guy to be around (if you're not the subject of his abuse), but that's about it.

[MUPig]

What ever happened to KO being the heir apparent / golden boy at Arizona?  He must have pissed someone off.  Did I miss something?

[4everwarriors]

I rather take my chances with Buzz.

[jce]

What ever happened to KO being the heir apparent / golden boy at Arizona?  He must have pissed someone off.  Did I miss something?

He was the heir apparent, but didn't perform real well when given the interim gig, and then rumor was that he was trying to push Lute away.

[THEGYMBAR]

KO was fun guy to suck a hudred beers with, but not a return engagement. He finally burned the AZ bridge and made a mistake in doing so. Never cross a legend. KO would have tried to get the job back in a heartbeat. He sent out feelers the last time the job was open. He will go anywhere if the $$$ was right.

[RawdogDX]

He's the proverbial guy I'd have a beer with, but wouldn't let him date my sister - EVER!

So is your sister also proverbial?  What kind of guy are you looking to set her up with?  Do you have full control of her dating life?  How would you 'rate' her friends?

[77ncaachamps]

KO was the head coach when I got there, and then Deane cleaned up my last years at MU.

KO wasn't a personality like Crean. He was an okay recruiter, but because of his emphasis on defense, some of MU's games were EXCRUITIATINGLY hard to watch: slow, working the ball, hunkering down, close games.

Since he's tasted the NBA and been at high-major state teams, I don't think he'll be welcome nor will he fit this program's needs this time or any time in the future.

[lurch91]

So is your sister also proverbial?  What kind of guy are you looking to set her up with?  Do you have full control of her dating life?  How would you 'rate' her friends?

She's married.

[tower912]

But back in the day.....     Nah, his sister is cool.

[NYWarrior]

KO........was an okay recruiter,

Huh?  The only coach who ever recruited better at MU was McGuire.  During his brief five-year run at MU, KO recruited three guys who played in the NBA -- plus he had a gift for identifying diamonds in the rough & he managed to land them just about every year (of course, not all were diamonds in the rough -- but look at the talent he brought in):

Hutchins
Crawford
McCaskill
Miller
Eford
Key
McIlvaine
Logterman
Pieper
Curry
Abraham
heck, even Shannon Smith was a great collegian just not a good fit at MU

These kids could play......look at the top 15 list of all-time MU performers in just about any category - - players KO recruited are disproportionately represented across the board, ie: #1 and #3 in assists, three of the top 11 rebounders in MU history, 5 of the top 10 3pt shooters (FGs made) in MU history, 2 of the top 10 in steals, the top 3 shotblockers in the history of the program, 3 of the top 15 scorers in MU history.

That's a ton of talent to flow into a program in just five years, plus he made TSmith an NBA player after a superstar senior season.  KO had an eye for talent that was exceptional, and a gift for developing talent.....too bad he didn't have patience, The Al, and the Big East.

[MR.HAYWARD]

i completely agree...amny of the same people that adored Crean because they thought Crean did some unimaginable thing here at MU only felt that way because due to their youth did not realize that a fellow named Oneill had done it just 10 years before.  actually oneill did a better job than Crean he took over a program that had been run into the ground by the previous coach, had no conference and no facilities.  Crean took over from a coach that avergaed 20 wins by riding oneills coattails, and was in a major conference getting televison exposure and had recently played in conference title games and ncaa tourneys.  i will say it agian as i have said it before,  oneil did a finer job at Mu than Crean did in amore difficult position.  Crean gets the "hype" becuase many do not rmeber oneill and becuase of the final 4,  oneil has the benfits of the al and a major conference and there is not telling what he could have done, in fact a few points here or there in 1994 and Oniell might have had a final 4.  Oneill out recruited crean's socks off with way less going for him. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

i completely agree...amny of the same people that adored Crean because they thought Crean did some unimaginable thing here at MU only felt that way because due to their youth did not realize that a fellow named Oneill had done it just 10 years before.  actually oneill did a better job than Crean he took over a program that had been run into the ground by the previous coach, had no conference and no facilities.  Crean took over from a coach that avergaed 20 wins by riding oneills coattails, and was in a major conference getting televison exposure and had recently played in conference title games and ncaa tourneys.  i will say it agian as i have said it before,  oneil did a finer job at Mu than Crean did in amore difficult position.  Crean gets the "hype" becuase many do not rmeber oneill and becuase of the final 4,  oneil has the benfits of the al and a major conference and there is not telling what he could have done, in fact a few points here or there in 1994 and Oniell might have had a final 4.  Oneill out recruited crean's socks off with way less going for him. 

KO did a great job, but I'm not sure about the "more difficult" comment.  We were an independent when KO took over.  Then the MCC.  Yes, tougher to recruit to, but easier to get wins as well.  Also, Crean didn't have the Al when he started and was in CUSA when he started.  KO also has the added luxury in state that Wisconsin sucked ass and didn't become a good program until after he left.

Needless to say, they both did a very good job for MU, and both were arseholes   

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

i completely agree...amny of the same people that adored Crean because they thought Crean did some unimaginable thing here at MU only felt that way because due to their youth did not realize that a fellow named Oneill had done it just 10 years before.  actually oneill did a better job than Crean he took over a program that had been run into the ground by the previous coach, had no conference and no facilities.  Crean took over from a coach that avergaed 20 wins by riding oneills coattails, and was in a major conference getting televison exposure and had recently played in conference title games and ncaa tourneys.  i will say it agian as i have said it before,  oneil did a finer job at Mu than Crean did in amore difficult position.  Crean gets the "hype" becuase many do not rmeber oneill and becuase of the final 4,  oneil has the benfits of the al and a major conference and there is not telling what he could have done, in fact a few points here or there in 1994 and Oniell might have had a final 4.  Oneill out recruited crean's socks off with way less going for him. 

On a 1-10 scale:

O'Neil lifted MU from a 1 to a 4
Crean lifted MU from a 4 to a 10

Both are equally important and difficult... not sure you can really attach a "better" or "worse" rating to either.

I'll just say "different".

[1990Warrior]

Shouldn't 10 be reserved for a national championship?

I would say
ONeil:   3 to 6
Crean:  5 to 8

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Shouldn't 10 be reserved for a national championship?

I would say
ONeil:   3 to 6
Crean:  5 to 8

Yea, I was just using 10 as the rating for the current program... not a rating of the program compared to others... but your comparison is probably about right.

[jce]

KO did a great job, but I'm not sure about the "more difficult" comment.  We were an independent when KO took over.  Then the MCC.  Yes, tougher to recruit to, but easier to get wins as well.  Also, Crean didn't have the Al when he started and was in CUSA when he started.  KO also has the added luxury in state that Wisconsin sucked ass and didn't become a good program until after he left.

Needless to say, they both did a very good job for MU, and both were arseholes   

Slight correction here.  When KO took over, MU was already in the MCC...or at least they had already announced that intention.

[jce]

Huh?  The only coach who ever recruited better at MU was McGuire.  During his brief five-year run at MU, KO recruited three guys who played in the NBA --

Who were the three?  McInvaine, McCaskill and ???

BTW, Crean recruited three too...with more to be determined.

[lurch91]

Who were the three?  McInvaine, McCaskill and ???

BTW, Crean recruited three too...with more to be determined.

Crawford played for Atlanta for about 4 years before a knee injury ended his career.  He was injured on a layup by a young Kevin Garnett. (if I recall correctly).  Just remember the point was KO sent 3 to the NBA in a five year stay at MU, Crean will haev sent 3(+?) to the NBA in 9 years.

[NYWarrior]

Crawford played for Atlanta for about 4 years before a knee injury ended his career.

Chris Crawford, the $16M man.......KO got him over Western Michigan.  LOL

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/crawfch01.html

The man had quite an eye for talented players.

[CTWarrior]

Shouldn't 10 be reserved for a national championship?

I would say
ONeil:   3 to 6
Crean:  5 to 8

The roster O'Neill left behind plus recruits was more balanced and deeper than what Crean left.

O'Neill:  2 to 7
Crean:  5 to 8

I think overall O'Neill did the better job in terms of raising the level of the program.  I have always thought so.  Crean did a much, much better job of keeping Marquette in the public eye, but I'm not sure I know what that is worth.  The tangible benefits of the Final Four in terms of donations, etc., was Crean's biggest accomplishment, by far.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Slight correction here.  When KO took over, MU was already in the MCC...or at least they had already announced that intention.

Yes, the announcement was made in 1988 but their first league game wasn't until the 1989-90 season.  Thanks for the clarification.

[lurch91]

Chris Crawford, the $16M man.......KO got him over Western Michigan.  LOL

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/crawfch01.html

The man had quite an eye for talented players.

Holy carp Crawford played was on a roster in the NBA for 7 years?  That's amazing!  I wish I had his pension!

[THEGYMBAR]

KO did the job. Better recruiter than TC in my opinion. Brought in state players that made an impact. There are plenty of great players in WI...why go to TX?

KO took it from a 1-6
TC took it from a 4-7

KO's job was tougher I believe. I think if he stuck around he would have had more success than TC.

[pbiflyer]

Holy carp Crawford played was on a roster in the NBA for 7 years?  That's amazing!  I wish I had his pension!

Um, if you would have looked at the stats, you would have seen that he was a starter for almost 40%. 92 of 252 games. Throw out his rookie season and it goes to almost 50%. He had a very respectable 7 year NBA career and would have been more if he would not have been injured early in his 5th year.

[Avenue Commons]

would you really want that foul mouth, program jumping ahole representing MU again?

He had his chance. There was a rumor that after he left for Tennessee that he tried to convince MU to let him come back and they said no. I doubt 14 years later he'd get another shot.

[Avenue Commons]

Um, if you would have looked at the stats, you would have seen that he was a starter for almost 40%. 92 of 252 games. Throw out his rookie season and it goes to almost 50%. He had a very respectable 7 year NBA career and would have been more if he would not have been injured early in his 5th year.

He did have a nice NBA career and if not for his injury (I think it was his knee) he would have probably played for a decade. He's going to have a nice pension on top of the money he made in the league. I knew him a little bit at MU, he was a really nice, normal guy. I was always happy for him that he had a nice career in the league.

[Schoolyard]

i completely agree...amny of the same people that adored Crean because they thought Crean did some unimaginable thing here at MU only felt that way because due to their youth did not realize that a fellow named Oneill had done it just 10 years before.  actually oneill did a better job than Crean he took over a program that had been run into the ground by the previous coach, had no conference and no facilities.  Crean took over from a coach that avergaed 20 wins by riding oneills coattails, and was in a major conference getting televison exposure and had recently played in conference title games and ncaa tourneys.  i will say it agian as i have said it before,  oneil did a finer job at Mu than Crean did in amore difficult position.  Crean gets the "hype" becuase many do not rmeber oneill and becuase of the final 4,  oneil has the benfits of the al and a major conference and there is not telling what he could have done, in fact a few points here or there in 1994 and Oniell might have had a final 4.  Oneill out recruited crean's socks off with way less going for him. 

Amen.  I still maintain the 1994 team could beat the 2003 team.  2003 was the best year of my life and the FF run was a big part of that but college hoops was much deeper / better in 1994.

The roster O'Neill left behind plus recruits was more balanced and deeper than what Crean left.

O'Neill:  2 to 7
Crean:  5 to 8

I think overall O'Neill did the better job in terms of raising the level of the program.  I have always thought so.  Crean did a much, much better job of keeping Marquette in the public eye, but I'm not sure I know what that is worth.  The tangible benefits of the Final Four in terms of donations, etc., was Crean's biggest accomplishment, by far.

Yeah, you only get so many points for being friends with Jay Bilas

KO did a great job, but I'm not sure about the "more difficult" comment.  We were an independent when KO took over.  Then the MCC.  Yes, tougher to recruit to, but easier to get wins as well.  Also, Crean didn't have the Al when he started and was in CUSA when he started.  KO also has the added luxury in state that Wisconsin sucked ass and didn't become a good program until after he left.

Needless to say, they both did a very good job for MU, and both were arseholes  

Both were A-holes but at least KO knew he was one.  That counts for something.  He didn't portend to be something he wasn't.

With regards to the "easier" conf, while KO was playing in the MCC & GMC he put together some pretty solid non confs

1990: Bucky, ND, Michigan, @DePaul, DePaul, Virginia, @ND, @Bucky
1991: @Duke, @Kansas, Bucky, @Michigan, OK State, Virginia, @DePaul, @ND, @NC State, DePaul, ND
1992: Penn State, @Bucky, @Dayton, OK State, ND, Kansas, NC State, @ND
1993: @UNLV, @Illinois, UW, Dayton, @Fordham @ South Florida, @ND, UWGB,
1994: Wazzou (N), UWGB, Illinois, Ohio State, @Bucky, @'Zona, South Florida, West Va, @Va Tech, ND

Seems to me that KO more than made up for his "weak" conference (And I'd hardly call the GMC weak).  Yes, yes, yes..I know that having less conf (MCC 14, GMC 10 then 12) made scheduling home & homes easier.  This is not to slam TC's non conf but rather to show that KO didn't pad his resume with only Little Sisters of the Poor

[warriorfred]

I have always thought that KO deserved the lion's share of credit for turning around Marquette's program.   When I think back to where Marquette was after Dukiet . . . no nationally televised games . . . no big wins (with the possible exception of beating a highly regarded but unranked DePaul in 1989) . . . poor facilities . . . and a weak conference.

KO could flat-out recruit.  His first big recruiting class included MacIlvane, Key, and Logterman, all from Wisconsin.  He kicked Bucky's *ss on the local recruiting trail, and left a team that was so well-stocked, Mike Deane looked like a passable D1 coach.

Not saying KO was a great coach, in fact, I believe his 1994 team underperformed a bit, and I'm not saying I'd want him back as a coach, but he deserves a fair amount of credit for Marquette's success. 

Given a choice between Crean and KO, I would take KO every time.

[Murffieus]

O'Neill was only 4 wins and 11 losses against ranked teams----had only one good conference season W/L in five seasons----plus all that baggage.

We can do a lot better----i hope!

[ChicosBailBonds]

Schoolyard, I'm not sure knowing you're an ahole (as KO was) makes it any better.  The guy blew off MU all the time...I mean ALL THE TIME.  Crean was a fake, but at least for the most part he would show (yes, he missed functions to).  Whether it was Al's run or something along those lines.  Can you imagine KO doing Al's Run...OMG.

As for the schedules go, I'll have to research the Sagarin or RPIs, though I don't think they go back that far.

Kevin was all over the board on scheduling.  One year he over scheduled and the next year he may have played the worst schedule in the modern era.  He had to put a few high profile games on there because the conference was so bad.

I think KO should get a ton of credit for what he did, though I hated his brand of basketball and how he treated the school, let alone some of the behind the door BS that he pulled.  But on the surface, he was exactly what MU needed at the time.

As for who was better for MU...Crean hands down.  Part of the job is the PR aspect and KO was miserable at it wherever he's been.

KO's on the court records were also a bit sparse.  We were a whopping 16-14 in the MCC.  In the Great Midwest we were 12-11 the first two years and then finally put it together to go 10-3 in the last year.  Tournament records....how soon we forget.  I used to laugh at the criticism of Crean's conference tournament record (which wasn't great).  KO was an amazing 1-5.  HOLY CRAP

Against our rivals

Notre Dame 2-6
DePaul 6-4
Wisconsin  1-5

The 2003 vs 1994 team would be interesting.

[Marquette84]

1990: Bucky, ND, Michigan, @DePaul, DePaul, Virginia, @ND, @Bucky
1991: @Duke, @Kansas, Bucky, @Michigan, OK State, Virginia, @DePaul, @ND, @NC State, DePaul, ND
1992: Penn State, @Bucky, @Dayton, OK State, ND, Kansas, NC State, @ND
1993: @UNLV, @Illinois, UW, Dayton, @Fordham @ South Florida, @ND, UWGB,
1994: Wazzou (N), UWGB, Illinois, Ohio State, @Bucky, @'Zona, South Florida, West Va, @Va Tech, ND

Seems to me that KO more than made up for his "weak" conference (And I'd hardly call the GMC weak).  Yes, yes, yes..I know that having less conf (MCC 14, GMC 10 then 12) made scheduling home & homes easier.  This is not to slam TC's non conf but rather to show that KO didn't pad his resume with only Little Sisters of the Poor

Didn't pad?

Since it appears you checked the media guide, perhaps you misssed these teams:
1990:  UNC-W, Chicago State Morgan State, Baptist, most of the MCC conference slate
1991:  Miss Valley State, UALR, Prairie View, MCC Conference slate
1992:  Prairie View, Northern Illinois, Columbia, Cal State-Sacramento, Miss Valley State, Bethune Cookman, Sam Houston, UMBC, CHicago State
1993: NC A&T, Manhattan, Charleston Southern, Northeastern IL, American, Western Illinois. Dayton (4-23 on the season--laughable that you try to pass that one off as a example of tough scheduling), @Dayton
1994:  American-PR, East Tennessee State, Texas Southern, Louisiana Tech, Dayton (6-21 on the season) @Dayton.


Then we have to question some of examples of "tough" scheduling--My guess is you're too young to remember that Wisconsin didn't begin it's rise until the late 1990s.  
1990:  Wisconsin 8th in the Big Ten.
1991:  Wisconsin moved up--finished 7th.
1992:  UW dropped to 9th (Ohio State, another "tough" team on your list was 7th that year)
1993:  UW moved up to 8th
1994:  UW improved to 7th

Notre Dame wasn't much better:
1990: 16-13
1991: 12-20
1992: 18-15
1993: 9-16
1994: 12-17

Bottom line is that O'neill played just as many cupcakes as his predecessors and successors.  The "tough" teams are based on name recognition and past/future success, not because they were difficult at the time.

[Schoolyard]

1984, I said didn't pad with ONLY...a little reading comprehension goes a long way.

Really, UW was bad?  I was in a coma from 1941 to 1994 so I did not know that.

Yes, KO played his share of cupcakes but everyone plays cupcakes.  KO had the choice to play all cupcakes or schedule some decent non-confs, and he did that and then some.

[Marquette84]

1984, I said didn't pad with ONLY...a little reading comprehension goes a long way.

Really, UW was bad?  I was in a coma from 1941 to 1994 so I did not know that.

Yes, KO played his share of cupcakes but everyone plays cupcakes.  KO had the choice to play all cupcakes or schedule some decent non-confs, and he did that and then some.

Okay, KO didn't pad his schedule with ONLY little sisters of the poor.  He ALSO padded it with mediocre teams like Wisconsin and Notre Dame, and big names in a down year like Illinois and Ohio State.
 
End-to-end, O'Neill's schedules were no better than what we've seen since joining the Big East.  O'Neill padded his schedule the same way everyone else does--with five or six games annually against the little sisters of the poor.

As for your comment that you didn't realize that Wisconsin used to be bad, if you knew that why did you try to pass them off as difficult opponents?

[muwarrior87]

Crawford played for Atlanta for about 4 years before a knee injury ended his career.  He was injured on a layup by a young Kevin Garnett. (if I recall correctly).  Just remember the point was KO sent 3 to the NBA in a five year stay at MU, Crean will haev sent 3(+?) to the NBA in 9 years.

Interesting how the only players that made the NBA from the KO years were centers and how Crean's are guards/outside shooters.  Hopefully Buzz can get a mix of both and really make this team nationally recognized.

[Schoolyard]

As for your comment that you didn't realize that Wisconsin used to be bad, if you knew that why did you try to pass them off as difficult opponents?

When did I refer to these teams as difficult opponents?  I pointed out his non conf teams (as opposed to BUY games).  Given where MU was coming off The Piano Man, none of those non buy, non conf listed above were cake walks. Chicos rails on his MCC record...we were coming off Piano Man.  You don't see me railing on TC's back to back 15 win seasons in 2000 & 2001.

But since you insinuated they were all names past their primes or not yet good...

# 6 Michigan (1990)
#18 Virginia (1991)
# 6 Duke (1991)
# 3 OK State (1992)
# 5 Kansas (1992)
#19 UNLV (1993)
#16 Illinois (1994)
#17 Wisconsin (1994)
# 9 Zona (1994)

So each year there were a couple of ranked teams...never mind NCAA or NIT teams .

People can't honestly talk about weak sked's with KO.  He made his bones the 1994 team and they played:

#16 Illinois
#17 Wisconsin
# 9 Zona
#18 UAB
#23 SLU
#23 SLU
#17 UAB

Plus other eventual tourney teams in Wash St, Texas Southern (  ) UWGB & Cinci x2

Compare that with 2003 who played 3 ranked games (Wake, UL, @UL) in the regular season and eventual tourney teams in ND and Cinci (x2)

That's 11 NCAA Games in 1994 vs. 6 in 2003.  You tell me who had the "easier" path to success

[ChicosBailBonds]

When did I refer to these teams as difficult opponents?  I pointed out his non conf teams (as opposed to BUY games).  Given where MU was coming off The Piano Man, none of those non buy, non conf listed above were cake walks. Chicos rails on his MCC record...we were coming off Piano Man.  You don't see me railing on TC's back to back 15 win seasons in 2000 & 2001.

But since you insinuated they were all names past their primes or not yet good...

# 6 Michigan (1990)
#18 Virginia (1991)
# 6 Duke (1991)
# 3 OK State (1992)
# 5 Kansas (1992)
#19 UNLV (1993)
#16 Illinois (1994)
#17 Wisconsin (1994)
# 9 Zona (1994)

So each year there were a couple of ranked teams...never mind NCAA or NIT teams .

People can't honestly talk about weak sked's with KO.  He made his bones the 1994 team and they played:

#16 Illinois
#17 Wisconsin
# 9 Zona
#18 UAB
#23 SLU
#23 SLU
#17 UAB

Plus other eventual tourney teams in Wash St, Texas Southern (  ) UWGB & Cinci x2

Compare that with 2003 who played 3 ranked games (Wake, UL, @UL) in the regular season and eventual tourney teams in ND and Cinci (x2)

That's 11 NCAA Games in 1994 vs. 6 in 2003.  You tell me who had the "easier" path to success

I'm not railing on his MCC record, only calling it what it is....TC's conference record against a lot better conference was quite similar in the first two years, only that the conference was tougher.

Now, as it relates to those ranked teams...that's all great until you see if they were truly worthy of those rankings.

Illinois, dropped out January 3rd never to be ranked again the rest of the year.  Wisconsin dropped out in February and also finished out of the rankings.  UAB finished the season...unranked.  SLU finished the season ranked 24th.  Arizona finished the season ranked 9th.

So by year's end when all the games had been played, that squad played two teams that were deemed top 25 by season's end.

The 2003 team, since you were using that as an example, did in fact play only 3 teams ranked at the time they played them.  However that doesn't tell the entire story.

For example, MU played at Notre Dame that year and they weren't ranked.  Yet by year's end they finished at  22nd (15th in the Coaches).  MU played Wisconsin when the Badgers were unranked, yet finished the season ranked 21st (14th in the coaches).  MU lost at Dayton in OT...Dayton was unranked yet finished the season 16th (25th in the coaches).   Wake Forest finished at 8th (12th in the coaches), Louisville at 14th (19th in the coaches).

So to answer your question, the 2003 team played 6 games against teams that finished the season ranked (not propped by some fluffy preseason rankings) while the 1994 team finished playing two.  This doesn't even factor in the CUSA conference vs GMC, either.  Clearly, the 2003 team had a tougher road.      (that 2003 team also played 4 more ranked teams in the tournament and beat 3 of them, including #1 and #4 in the land...the 1994 team beat 1 ranked team at #7 in the tournament).


Again, what KO did was phenomenal.  The 1994 team was damn good, in fact they ended up playing more NCAA tournament teams in the regular season then the 2003 team (8 vs 10....though the 1994 team lucked into a few like WSU at the San Juan Shootout, Texas Southern, UWGB, etc). 

KO did great stuff for MU, got us to the next level, but he too thought MU had reached a ceiling of the Sweet 16 and couldn't wait to leave Marquette.

[Doctor V]

Amen.  I still maintain the 1994 team could beat the 2003 team.  2003 was the best year of my life and the FF run was a big part of that but college hoops was much deeper / better in 1994.

Yeah, you only get so many points for being friends with Jay Bilas

Both were A-holes but at least KO knew he was one.  That counts for something.  He didn't portend to be something he wasn't.

With regards to the "easier" conf, while KO was playing in the MCC & GMC he put together some pretty solid non confs

1990: Bucky, ND, Michigan, @DePaul, DePaul, Virginia, @ND, @Bucky
1991: @Duke, @Kansas, Bucky, @Michigan, OK State, Virginia, @DePaul, @ND, @NC State, DePaul, ND
1992: Penn State, @Bucky, @Dayton, OK State, ND, Kansas, NC State, @ND
1993: @UNLV, @Illinois, UW, Dayton, @Fordham @ South Florida, @ND, UWGB,
1994: Wazzou (N), UWGB, Illinois, Ohio State, @Bucky, @'Zona, South Florida, West Va, @Va Tech, ND

Seems to me that KO more than made up for his "weak" conference (And I'd hardly call the GMC weak).  Yes, yes, yes..I know that having less conf (MCC 14, GMC 10 then 12) made scheduling home & homes easier.  This is not to slam TC's non conf but rather to show that KO didn't pad his resume with only Little Sisters of the Poor

portend? really?

[ChicosBailBonds]

By the way, the comment about our "youth"....I was a student prior to KO and during KO.  Worked for athletics as a senior when KO was alive and well in the 1212 building.

[Schoolyard]

Now, as it relates to those ranked teams...that's all great until you see if they were truly worthy of those rankings.

Illinois, dropped out January 3rd never to be ranked again the rest of the year.  Wisconsin dropped out in February and also finished out of the rankings.  UAB finished the season...unranked.  SLU finished the season ranked 24th.  Arizona finished the season ranked 9th.

So by year's end when all the games had been played, that squad played two teams that were deemed top 25 by season's end.

But it's not like they were playing 2007 Clemson or 2008 Dayton, all of those teams still made the NCAA.  11 games vs. tourney teams, not bad.

KO did great stuff for MU, got us to the next level, but he too thought MU had reached a ceiling of the Sweet 16 and couldn't wait to leave Marquette.

They both couldn't wait to leave, KO just interviewed better.  TC went hard after U of I, Ohio State, UK and Virginia.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Marquette84 criticizes O'Neill, Majerus, etc. yet continues to defend Tom Crean like he was his brother. The definition of an apologist.

Who is SJS? Very possibly a member of the Crean family!

[ChicosBailBonds]

But it's not like they were playing 2007 Clemson or 2008 Dayton, all of those teams still made the NCAA.  11 games vs. tourney teams, not bad.

They both couldn't wait to leave, KO just interviewed better.  TC went hard after U of I, Ohio State, UK and Virginia.

The difference was that KO publicly was bitching about MU every chance he could get, his PR skills were horrible.  TC, while interviewing, at least wasn't tearing apart the school, crapping about his contract, etc.  Big difference

[Schoolyard]

The difference was that KO publicly was bitching about MU every chance he could get, his PR skills were horrible.  TC, while interviewing, at least wasn't tearing apart the school, crapping about his contract, etc.  Big difference

Hard to complain when the school gives you everything you want / need / ask for.

Now this is just me, but I think Rev. Wild is a touch better to work for than Rev DiUlio.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Hard to complain when the school gives you everything you want / need / ask for.

Now this is just me, but I think Rev. Wild is a touch better to work for than Rev DiUlio.

That's part of it, but then again KO showed his colors at UT, Northwestern, Toronto, his wife, etc..... he's not changing his spots. 

[Schoolyard]

That's part of it, but then again KO showed his colors at UT, Northwestern, Toronto, his wife, etc..... he's not changing his spots. 

Believe, I want no part of KO now.  I've said the following to friends in the past few weeks: "after reading quotes from KO through the year you can tell KO hates college, loves his summer house and tolerates the NBA, but since he's KO he would take any college gig if the money was right".

My point in continuing is simply out of respect for what KO did in the past for MU.  Due to this being a forum on a newer more youth orientated medium, I think KO's memory gets dimished.  It doesn't help that our last coach led you to believe that MU shut down hoops from 1977 to 1999, only briefly playing some exhibitions where Doc Rivers was the greatest collegiate player of the early 80's.  I went to school in the mid 90's, tail end of KO and 1st 3 years of Deane-o.  We went 15-8 vs ranked teams when I was there.  We won two conf titles (1 reg season, 1 tourney) 3 NCAA games and an NIT runner up.  All in all, a very successful and enjoyable time to be a MU fan.  Not quite the abyss it's been made out to be.  85% of that is b/c of KO.   

[ChicosBailBonds]

KO has my respect for what he did, he was the right hire in 1989, a no-nonsense intense guy that was needed to right the ship.  No question about it.

[Avenue Commons]

Believe, I want no part of KO now.  I've said the following to friends in the past few weeks: "after reading quotes from KO through the year you can tell KO hates college, loves his summer house and tolerates the NBA, but since he's KO he would take any college gig if the money was right".

My point in continuing is simply out of respect for what KO did in the past for MU.  Due to this being a forum on a newer more youth orientated medium, I think KO's memory gets dimished.  It doesn't help that our last coach led you to believe that MU shut down hoops from 1977 to 1999, only briefly playing some exhibitions where Doc Rivers was the greatest collegiate player of the early 80's.  I went to school in the mid 90's, tail end of KO and 1st 3 years of Deane-o.  We went 15-8 vs ranked teams when I was there.  We won two conf titles (1 reg season, 1 tourney) 3 NCAA games and an NIT runner up.  All in all, a very successful and enjoyable time to be a MU fan.  Not quite the abyss it's been made out to be.  85% of that is b/c of KO.   

+1

I was at MU from 1993-1997. In my four years there we went to the Sweet 16 (1994), were the runners up in the NIT (1995), made the NCAAs (1996) and made the NCAAs after winning the C-USA tournament (1997). That's a pretty decent run there. During that time we had two future NBA players in Crawford and McIlvaine and consistently won with a decent overall record against ranked teams. I agree that those couple of really bad years at the end of Deane's tenure has cast a shadow over the period before that when Marquette was a very, very solid basketball program. Deane had the advantage of KO's recruits and KO deserves a lot of credit for that team that was competitive for my time at MU. Deane was a good bench coach and showed what he could do with good players.

[MUinOH]

Due to this being a forum on a newer more youth orientated medium, I think KO's memory gets dimished.     

Hey, my 79-year-old grandma surfs this "youth oriented medium" all the time.  I don't think she reads this particular board, but just in case......HI GRANDMA!