The Biggest Disappointment

[BCHoopster]

tonight I felt was Vander Blue.  I knew was not a 26 point player a few nights ago but the other games he let the game come to him.  Offensively tonight, he looked much like he did last
year taking poor shots and missing easy ones as well.  The small forward has to be able to score.  Also, Todd Mayo looked like a freshman today.  To the people who have seen Juan
Anderson in the summer, does he help this team in the future?  I hope Buzz does not keep in the dog house to long.  Time to play him.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Couldn't agree more on Juan. Vander was brutal tonight.

[kmwtrucks]

I would have liked to see more of J wilson when Vander was not hitting his stride on the off side.  Wilson seems very steady, makes the smart pass and he brings better rebounding and gives you more height when breaking the zone. 

[THEultimateWARRIOR]

0-7 from the floor pretty brutal night for Vander indeed. Maybe because the game was close? It seemed like last year when the games started getting bigger he started to fold under pressure.

Id like to see a lot more out of anderson too...

I dont mind Buzz playing Mayo as Id like to see him get more comfortable because i feel like he has the ability to have a impact on this game.

[77ncaachamps]

Our inability to break a 2-3 zone. :/

[tower912]

It was a 1-2-2

[ATWizJr]

Good to win, but any way you slice it, our expectations were higher than a 2 pt. win over a team we beat last week by 30.  Might be time to lower our expectations until proven otherwise.

[Blackhat]

I've never seen a player so hyped be so bad against decent competition from the start of his career (sans Brian Butch).

[MerrittsMustache]

Not sure if anyone noticed but Marquette won last night. It wasn't pretty but not all wins are going to be pretty. Teams are going to have bad nights against teams they should handle (Vandy, Pitt, etc). It doesn't matter how it looks, it only matters if you win. Marquette won. Period. Sure, there's room for improvement but there's been room for improvement since game 1. As I said on a different thread, MU missed a lot of easy shots last night and they also missed some wide open 3s. It's amazing how bad a team can look when shots aren't falling. If they hit a couple of those 3s and a handful of those lay-ups (like they normally would), they win by double-digits. Those shots weren't falling, but they still found a way to win, in large part because they held Norfolk to 34% shooting.

Blue is going to be fine. Yes, he took a couple ill-advised shots but he also played solid D, had 5 assists and attacked the basket. His shots just weren't falling - 3 games in 4 days will have an effect on a player.

[dw3dw3dw3]

From the tip it seemed like he thought it was his right to score 20 a night, so he had to keep shooting to get his numbers up. He took a couple of semi-contested 3's with 15 seconds left of the shot clock where I was scratching my head.  You could feel the confidence slowly get sucked out of Vander.... Buzz kept him in to let him try to handle adversity it seemed, but his head was in the gutter. This is one game and Vander will undoubtedly have some more good games in him, but the what if game is always interesting.

It will be interesting to see how long a leash Buzz gives Vander once the competition heats up. Todd has already been labeled as a defensive stopper (albeit a little smaller) and can shoot, and Jones has been ok (looked slow yesterday though), so there are other options. It's painful against the zone to see 2 of the 3 perimeter players not be threats. Whenever they were passing around the outside and it hit JC/Wilson and over to Blue it was almost like 4 wasted passes since those players weren't being aggressive (JC did have one nice penetration play).  Vander needs to play off of Jae and DJO, when those guys were out he seemed to take more responsibility to score unsuccessfully.

If Buzz starts to feel that Mayo gives them a better chance to win, I don't think any preseason expectations for a player will hold him back from making the move, long term consequences or not.

I'd like to see Vander start taking the 5-10 footer as well (ala McNeal), those drives all the way to the bucket are just going to get harder and harder. He's not particularly crafty around the rim either, I haven't seen him really pump fake ever. As a positive, he has gotten a lot better finishing one on one with a guy on his hip this year.

Again, it's one game, I'm holding out hope for Vander to have a successful turnaround on the court and in life this year, but I'm happy there are other good options waiting to get a chance too if he's not up to it.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

We looked bad for 25 minutes. Nothing to be concerned about. It may be a cliche, but I thought the travel problems may have finally caught up with us as we looked very tired. On a positive note, DJO was great

[mu03eng]

From the tip it seemed like he thought it was his right to score 20 a night, so he had to keep shooting to get his numbers up. He took a couple of semi-contested 3's with 15 seconds left of the shot clock where I was scratching my head.  You could feel the confidence slowly get sucked out of Vander.... Buzz kept him in to let him try to handle adversity it seemed, but his head was in the gutter. This is one game and Vander will undoubtedly have some more good games in him, but the what if game is always interesting.

It will be interesting to see how long a leash Buzz gives Vander once the competition heats up. Todd has already been labeled as a defensive stopper (albeit a little smaller) and can shoot, and Jones has been ok (looked slow yesterday though), so there are other options. It's painful against the zone to see 2 of the 3 perimeter players not be threats. Whenever they were passing around the outside and it hit JC/Wilson and over to Blue it was almost like 4 wasted passes since those players weren't being aggressive (JC did have one nice penetration play).  Vander needs to play off of Jae and DJO, when those guys were out he seemed to take more responsibility to score unsuccessfully.

If Buzz starts to feel that Mayo gives them a better chance to win, I don't think any preseason expectations for a player will hold him back from making the move, long term consequences or not.

I'd like to see Vander start taking the 5-10 footer as well (ala McNeal), those drives all the way to the bucket are just going to get harder and harder. He's not particularly crafty around the rim either, I haven't seen him really pump fake ever. As a positive, he has gotten a lot better finishing one on one with a guy on his hip this year.

Again, it's one game, I'm holding out hope for Vander to have a successful turnaround on the court and in life this year, but I'm happy there are other good options waiting to get a chance too if he's not up to it.

I completely disagree, I think Vander was trying to get his offense within the context of what the team was doing.  I really only remember one jacked three but I thought it was with 10 or less on shot clock and relatively close to when NFSU switched to the zone.

Just like his 26 points was one game I think this was just one game.  I think he will settled in very nicely over the next couple of weeks.

[MUMac]

From the tip it seemed like he thought it was his right to score 20 a night, so he had to keep shooting to get his numbers up. He took a couple of semi-contested 3's with 15 seconds left of the shot clock where I was scratching my head.  You could feel the confidence slowly get sucked out of Vander.... Buzz kept him in to let him try to handle adversity it seemed, but his head was in the gutter. This is one game and Vander will undoubtedly have some more good games in him, but the what if game is always interesting.

It will be interesting to see how long a leash Buzz gives Vander once the competition heats up. Todd has already been labeled as a defensive stopper (albeit a little smaller) and can shoot, and Jones has been ok (looked slow yesterday though), so there are other options. It's painful against the zone to see 2 of the 3 perimeter players not be threats. Whenever they were passing around the outside and it hit JC/Wilson and over to Blue it was almost like 4 wasted passes since those players weren't being aggressive (JC did have one nice penetration play).  Vander needs to play off of Jae and DJO, when those guys were out he seemed to take more responsibility to score unsuccessfully.

If Buzz starts to feel that Mayo gives them a better chance to win, I don't think any preseason expectations for a player will hold him back from making the move, long term consequences or not.

I'd like to see Vander start taking the 5-10 footer as well (ala McNeal), those drives all the way to the bucket are just going to get harder and harder. He's not particularly crafty around the rim either, I haven't seen him really pump fake ever. As a positive, he has gotten a lot better finishing one on one with a guy on his hip this year.

Again, it's one game, I'm holding out hope for Vander to have a successful turnaround on the court and in life this year, but I'm happy there are other good options waiting to get a chance too if he's not up to it.

Sometimes I wonder if I am watching the same game as some of you.  A couple of semi contested 3's?  REally.  Wow, I wonder if some of the critics on this board have ever played the game.

This bashing is becoming a joke.  I expected more out of MU basketball fans than I have witnessed.  Pretty pathetic bunch we have!~

[GGGG]

It will be interesting to see how long a leash Buzz gives Vander once the competition heats up. Todd has already been labeled as a defensive stopper (albeit a little smaller) and can shoot, and Jones has been ok (looked slow yesterday though), so there are other options.

Here is the problem I have with Mayo...one on one, he can defend.  However, he is late with his rotations and not in place.  He has a ways to go before he understands the team defense that Buzz wants.  Outside of the brain fart at the end of the first half, Vander is generally in the right place and makes the right switches.  He is a much better within the team defensive scheme.

And yeah, his offense was bad.  However at the end of the game he had a key steal and a key assist.  Last year, Vander would have gone in a shell and would have been useless.  This game he faught through it and contributed when his team needed him.

And I don't know what to think about Jones.  He can shoot, but he doesn't seem to have any dribble game at all.  He's a decent defender.  Mayo I think is going to play more than him simply because of his total offensive game.

The problem that we have is that we are having from a shooting perspective is that we haven't been able to replace DB and JFB on that end of the floor.  

[GGGG]

Couldn't agree more on Juan. Vander was brutal tonight.

Juan isn't in the doghouse.  Juan hasn't been able to practice fully because of injury.  The idea that people want to see more Juan and less Vander is silly.  Especially since the guy who knows these players better than anyone (Buzz) doesn't seem to agree with you.

[MUMac]

Juan isn't in the doghouse.  Juan hasn't been able to practice fully because of injury.  The idea that people want to see more Juan and less Vander is silly.  Especially since the guy who knows these players better than anyone (Buzz) doesn't seem to agree with you.

The best players are the back ups we never see or those who just graduated.  Otherwise everyone else is criticised.  The back up QB is ALWAYS better than the starting QB, because no body see's them play.  You mentioned it yesterday in another thread.  Now we are concerned about replacing Butler's leadership when last year many of these same "experts" were critical of his lack of leadership.

I am really perplexed by all the criticism levied at this team and these players for one game - a win at that.  The comments from the "expert" coaches on this board on who should play, who should not.  None have seen a practice, yet they know best.  Embarassing, really.

[mu03eng]

Here is the problem I have with Mayo...one on one, he can defend.  However, he is late with his rotations and not in place.  He has a ways to go before he understands the team defense that Buzz wants.  Outside of the brain fart at the end of the first half, Vander is generally in the right place and makes the right switches.  He is a much better within the team defensive scheme.

And yeah, his offense was bad.  However at the end of the game he had a key steal and a key assist.  Last year, Vander would have gone in a shell and would have been useless.  This game he faught through it and contributed when his team needed him.

And I don't know what to think about Jones.  He can shoot, but he doesn't seem to have any dribble game at all.  He's a decent defender.  Mayo I think is going to play more than him simply because of his total offensive game.

The problem that we have is that we are having from a shooting perspective is that we haven't been able to replace DB and JFB on that end of the floor.  

I also think a couple of his lay ups would have normally gone in, plus near the end of the game he was one of the few players that attacked the rim and was able to get there through the zone and just couldn't get the shot to fall.  The stat sheet doesn't do his effort justice.  Again not a good game by Vander on the offensive end but not nearly as bad as all the chicken littles seem to think

[mu03eng]

The best players are the back ups we never see or those who just graduated.  Otherwise everyone else is criticised.  The back up QB is ALWAYS better than the starting QB, because no body see's them play.  You mentioned it yesterday in another thread.  Now we are concerned about replacing Butler's leadership when last year many of these same "experts" were critical of his lack of leadership.

I am really perplexed by all the criticism levied at this team and these players for one game - a win at that.  The comments from the "expert" coaches on this board on who should play, who should not.  None have seen a practice, yet they know best.  Embarassing, really.

Someone is going to have to explain the phenomenon of people flocking to the message board to bash the hell out of the team when they lose or have close wins, but when we win big or win a good game the amount of users is much lower and the number of posts are much less.  Drives me nuts, makes me think we have a whole bunch of masochists that love to lose.

[MUMac]

I also think a couple of his lay ups would have normally gone in, plus near the end of the game he was one of the few players that attacked the rim and was able to get there through the zone and just couldn't get the shot to fall.  The stat sheet doesn't do his effort justice.  Again not a good game by Vander on the offensive end but not nearly as bad as all the chicken littles seem to think

Agree completely.  He had a few roll off.  Yes, a couple the defense came over, but where is anyone else trying to get spacing to get open?  Didn't see it.  They were standing and watching.

Heck, some were complaining about his two missed 3's.  Really?  One was a similar play to a 3 that Jones missed earlier in the half (1st).  Vander's shot actually looked better than Jones when comparing those plays.  Both, though, were the shots to take.

Many of the same people constantly complained about McNeal for similar things.  He kept attacking and worked it out.  I do expect similar transition from Vander.

One poor shooting night and all these "fans" attack.  Gee, I wonder why they aren't coaching themselves.  

[MerrittsMustache]

Someone is going to have to explain the phenomenon of people flocking to the message board to bash the hell out of the team when they lose or have close wins, but when we win big or win a good game the amount of users is much lower and the number of posts are much less.  Drives me nuts, makes me think we have a whole bunch of masochists that love to lose.

If a person has a good customer service experience they'll tell one person about it. If they have a bad experience they'll tell 10 people about it.

Similarly, if MU beats a no-name by 30 points, it gets a collective yawn. If MU beats a no-name by 2 points, the sky is falling and there are all kinds of problems with the team. I've heard several sportswriters say that their job is a lot easier when their teams are bad because it's much easier to find things to talk about.

[MerrittsMustache]

The best players are the back ups we never see or those who just graduated.  Otherwise everyone else is criticised.  The back up QB is ALWAYS better than the starting QB, because no body see's them play. 

+1

The old joke was that the most popular athlete in Chicago was the Bears back-up QB.

[NersEllenson]

If a person has a good customer service experience they'll tell one person about it. If they have a bad experience they'll tell 10 people about it.

Similarly, if MU beats a no-name by 30 points, it gets a collective yawn. If MU beats a no-name by 2 points, the sky is falling and there are all kinds of problems with the team. I've heard several sportswriters say that their job is a lot easier when their teams are bad because it's much easier to find things to talk about.

 What he said....Hell even some of the national pundits were discussing the chinks in Green Bay's armor due to Tampa playing them close.  

It wasn't a pretty game last night, we didn't play well, but we got the "W."  I still liked what I saw out of Mayo, Jamail Jones, Derrick Wilson - and Vander and Jamil to an extent.  Vander had a few shots not fall for him - no need to pile on the guy today.  Jamil is still finding himself it seems.  I thought Jones looked pretty good/active/aggressive.  I love Todd Mayo's game..he'll be big for MU this year...book it.  D Wilson is a VERY solid backup freshman PG.  Juan will get his chance.

[dw3dw3dw3]

Let's all talk coach speak from now on so not to upset anyone. It's a message board for voicing opinions. My opinion is Vander played bad and forced a lot of stuff. Vander should absolutely not be shooting threes within the context of the offense or anytime there is more than 8 seconds on the shot clock.  He is a horrible shooter period. If he keeps shooting 3's at his current clip for the season (3/8), he will undoubtedly have had some help from Tebow. He has played to what should be expected in 3 out of 5 games. He had one horrible game and one off the charts game.

Also, there is plenty of chatter when there is a win versus a top 25 opponent. Winning cupcakes isn't that interesting and hard to garner opinions about. Count the posts after the Syracuse win last year.

You can be a "fan" and think a player is bad or had a bad game or made poor decisions... it's ok, really!

Also, backup players on MU actually have game time experience so you can compare them to starters. It's not a backup QB thought. Mayo vs Vander will be a decision that Buzz will have to make a lot this year depending on different situations.

[muwarrior69]

The biggest disappointment was that they took Norfolk for granted and did not take them as a serious competitor. Never under estimate the opposition. When Norfolk went into the zone we all could see they were not prepared for that. They also took away our transition game and did not adjust to that as well. Hopefully they will learn from this. However, I like ugly wins over a heart break loss. I think this game experience bodes well for the UW game just ahead.

[jsglow]

+1

The old joke was that the most popular athlete in Chicago was the Bears back-up QB.

Crap.  I guess that means that the Bears are headed to the Superbowl now!  No way Rodgers can compete.