NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18

[naginiF]

If people have their hat on at sporting events, I ask them to take it off. If they don't it gets removed.

So the proper way for the flag/anthem to be honored is to:
1) pay attention to how the people around you are observing the anthem to make sure they are 'in compliance'
2) disrupt those around you during the anthem
3) if the person didn't just forget they were wearing a hat try to verbally get them to comply with something they don't want to do
4) start a physical confrontation with a stranger in front of children to try to force compliance

Sounds more like the steps to get ejected or arrested than the steps to honor the flag/anthem.

[Jockey]

I fully understand and respect anyone who thinks kneeling during the national anthem is disrespectful.

I am terrified that so many people are ready to see people fired, fined, and (in a small minority) thrown in jail for refusing to participate in a show of patriotism. That's not something I expect to see in a country like ours.

Good post TAMU.

Here in my city - Racine, WI - a local restaurant owner called for the execution of anyone who kneels for the anthem. Advocated murdering people (of course we all understand he is referring to minorities) who express their constitutional rights. The other 3 cowards who co-own the restaurant issued a public statement saying they don't feel the same and were sorry if anyone was offended. When that didn't cut it, they issued a new statement that they are trying to remove the offensive owner. It was a restaurant I went to often - but I will never make that mistake again.

[Jockey]

If people have their hat on at sporting events, I ask them to take it off. If they don't it gets removed.

You are actually pretending you would be man enough to do that? That is hilarious.

Mr. Law & Order saying assault is the proper thing to do when you disagree with someone. Go back to your criminal friends on the AAU circuit.

 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Rocket,  I'll be honest,  I'm having a hard time understanding your post. But I think you are saying that I shouldn't be afraid because the people don't actually have the power to do what they are saying.

If that's the case,  I disagree. If it's one person with power I can dismiss them as an outlier and trust that masses will keep them in check.  If it's the masses, I can't dismiss that. It means the attitude is being normalized. And eventually the masses could have enough power in numbers to demand what they are saying,  even if it goes against the values of our country.

And there's at least one person with that level of  power who has been very vocal about at least firing people who refuse to participate in an act of patriotism

[rocket surgeon]

Rocket,  I'll be honest,  I'm having a hard time understanding your post. But I think you are saying that I shouldn't be afraid because the people don't actually have the power to do what they are saying.

If that's the case,  I disagree. If it's one person with power I can dismiss them as an outlier and trust that masses will keep them in check.  If it's the masses, I can't dismiss that. It means the attitude is being normalized. And eventually the masses could have enough power in numbers to demand what they are saying,  even if it goes against the values of our country.

And there's at least one person with that level of  power who has been very vocal about at least firing people who refuse to participate in an act of patriotism

looks like you got it just fine-first of all, it's the not so silent minority that you should fear.  they are controlling the agenda and telling you what to think and believe. they are putting this out there with a mob mentality that you must go along to get along.  the one person you are referring to-just to be clear, said,
 
    ""Wouldn't you love to see one of these NFL owners, when somebody disrespects our flag, say: "Get that son of a b---- off the field right now. Out. He's fired. He's fired,"

   very vocal is saying-"wouldn't you love to see..."  that's it.  he did not call for it, he did not say they should be, he did not say they will be..., the president is entitled to his opinion just as much as anyone else and in this case, he is once again in the majority

to be very honest, as a business owner, if one of my employees misrepresents my company, disobeys company policy, wears a fidel castro tee shirt, etc etc, not only would i love to fire them, i will fire them.  the nfl is a business and the stadiums are their offices.  if goodell had a sac, he would have put this fire out before it got to this point-real leaders lead

[jsglow]

So to change the subject and lighten the mood I share the following......

As you all know the Packers are literally down to guys off the street to play offensive tackle tomorrow.  So a comment on a message board reflecting that reality?

'Maybe the offensive line ought to lock arms DURING the game instead!'

All good.  Go Pack Go! 

[GGGG]

So to change the subject and lighten the mood I share the following......

As you all know the Packers are literally down to guys off the street to play offensive tackle tomorrow.  So a comment on a message board reflecting that reality?

'Maybe the offensive line ought to lock arms DURING the game instead!'

All good.  Go Pack Go! 

It's the Bears.

But seriously, they did a lot more roll outs than they usually do. I expect some of that tomorrow.

[tower912]

Rocket, I hear your point.  Can you understand why so many would react when the same guy who said there were many fine people among the protesting Nazi's and white supremacists would then say that if a player took a knee that the owners should fire the SOB?  A very small number of players were protesting prior to that statement.  It probably would have continued to diminish. The statement galvanized and angered the majority of players.    So they acted in a constitutionally protected manner.

I disagree with the anger directed at the players but I try to understand it.  Can you try to understand why the players would be so galvanized by the president's words?   They are like you, getting angry when they feel attacked.   

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Everyone has the right to their opinion. I would fight to the death to protect that right as the saying goes. My personal opinion is that it is terrifying that half our country seems to want people to be fired, fined, (and in a small minority of people) thrown in jail for refusing to participate in a forced display of patriotism that is being forced on them by their employer.

I do understand the business argument. I would hate to be an NFL owner nowadays. They are essentially being forced to choose between their employees and their customers. I couldn't blame an owner for making the decision that was best for his business provided it was ethical. I still think the best business decision is supporting the players at this point but maybe that changes.

[forgetful]

Here is one of the problems of the argument, "it is disrespectful to military vets and their families".

Yes, some military vets and their families are offended by individuals kneeling.

But, some military vets would be equally offended if you forced people to stand, because that is not what they fought for. 

So someone will be upset by either decision.  For me the tie breaker is the constitution.  Since someone will be offended no matter what, go with the constitutional protection of free speech. 

The other aspect is that stand/kneel/sit, doesn't imply any patriotism whatsoever.  Many of the people sitting/kneeling are likely more supportive of the military and patriotic than some of them standing.  Really, stand/kneel/sit has nothing to do with patriotism or support of the military, it is merely an argument made up to attack those making this protest.  I'd rather let people do what they feel is right and not question what they think/feel.  What they think/feel will be played out by actions in other aspects of their life, not some arbitrary forced act of patriotism for 2-minutes at a sporting event.

Forcing someone to stand does not imply patriotistm/support.  It is like manners/politeness.  I'd rather people do what they want then force manners/politeness on someone.  It always reminds me of what I've been told is the difference between the north/midwest and the south.  In both places the people are ridiculously nice and friendly.  In the north/midwest, they are nice and friendly because that is just the way they are.  In the south, they appear nice and friendly because that is the way they were raised, but the moment you walk away they are likely cursing you under their breath. 

[rocket surgeon]

Rocket, I hear your point.  Can you understand why so many would react when the same guy who said there were many fine people among the protesting Nazi's and white supremacists would then say that if a player took a knee that the owners should fire the SOB?  A very small number of players were protesting prior to that statement.  It probably would have continued to diminish. The statement galvanized and angered the majority of players.    So they acted in a constitutionally protected manner.

I disagree with the anger directed at the players but I try to understand it.  Can you try to understand why the players would be so galvanized by the president's words?   They are like you, getting angry when they feel attacked.

to both you and tamu-yes and yes

    i get your side or point as well.  i don't recall however the part about "many fine people among the nazi's...but it's really not worth starting a whole different argument over,  suffice it to say we are living in a highly polarizing era-duh?  but in order to try to make better sense out of it, is by hearing the other side in a civil nature as both of you can do and i appreciate that.  i can understand the players anger, but at the same time, they must remember who it is they are also offending-the people who pay their salaries-not the owners-the fans.  the sponsors have to tip-toe thru this as well because the fans also vote with their wallets.  i do not agree with anyone calling out for a "boycott"  everyone can make their own decisions on whether or not they want to buy something or patronize such and such an establishment. 

    hopefully, this will all simmer down...soon, and we can move on to the next "outrage" of the moment.  unfortunately or not, it seems to take  near meltdowns, bruised relationships, and harsh words to advance change

[tower912]

The 'many fine people' comment was in response to Charlottesville.

[Pakuni]

Aaron Rodgers made a point on his Instagram:



aaronrodgers12I can't imagine what kind of social media attacks these cameramen must be enduring after taking a knee during the anthem and wearing a hat. 

[MerrittsMustache]

It's the Bears.

But seriously, they did a lot more roll outs than they usually do. I expect some of that tomorrow.

The Bears played well last week and in Week 1. The Packers haven't been sharp and are a couple plays/calls away from being 0-3. Maybe, just maybe...oh, nevermind. They're still the Bears.

Sigh...

[GGGG]

The Bears played well last week and in Week 1. The Packers haven't been sharp and are a couple plays/calls away from being 0-3. Maybe, just maybe...oh, nevermind. They're still the Bears.

Sigh...

If the Packers win tonight, the will have the lead in the overall series for the first time since 1933.

In 1992 (before Favre/Rodgers era) the Bears had a 24 game lead.

I probably jinxed it now...

[MU82]

to both you and tamu-yes and yes

    i get your side or point as well.  i don't recall however the part about "many fine people among the nazi's...but it's really not worth starting a whole different argument over,  suffice it to say we are living in a highly polarizing era-duh?  but in order to try to make better sense out of it, is by hearing the other side in a civil nature as both of you can do and i appreciate that.  i can understand the players anger, but at the same time, they must remember who it is they are also offending-the people who pay their salaries-not the owners-the fans.  the sponsors have to tip-toe thru this as well because the fans also vote with their wallets.  i do not agree with anyone calling out for a "boycott"  everyone can make their own decisions on whether or not they want to buy something or patronize such and such an establishment. 

    hopefully, this will all simmer down...soon, and we can move on to the next "outrage" of the moment.  unfortunately or not, it seems to take  near meltdowns, bruised relationships, and harsh words to advance change

NM. Already addressed by TAMU

[mu_hilltopper]

I've always been curious about the kneeling aspect.   If you're in a church, you genuflect as you walk by the crucifix or alter.   Catholics kneel during parts of the mass.  Kneeling is a sign of reverence, worship, and servility. 

Imagine if .. I dunno .. Tim Tebow knelt 5 years ago during the anthem.  People would think, wow, this guy is reverent.  Hell, it would have started a uber patriotic trend.  -- I get it, the "intent" matters.  The physical act .. well, sure appears respectful.   I suppose Kaep may have poisoned the well when he sat the first few times.

There's also the uncomfortable visual of black men kneeling .. in a stadium that is mostly filled with whites above them.

[forgetful]

Aaron Rodgers made a point on his Instagram:



aaronrodgers12I can't imagine what kind of social media attacks these cameramen must be enduring after taking a knee during the anthem and wearing a hat.

This gets at my point on stretching not being disrespectful. Their job is to play football, and not get injured.  The cameramen's jobs are to catch all the action. 

The anthem is for the fans and the atmosphere, not the people doing their jobs.

[jsglow]

The Bears played well last week and in Week 1. The Packers haven't been sharp and are a couple plays/calls away from being 0-3. Maybe, just maybe...oh, nevermind. They're still the Bears.

Sigh...

The Bears are playing well and the Packers are incredibly depleted at Tackle.  Here's the question.  Does the need for ARodg to 'dink and dunk' tonight in hopes of generating about 24 points still outshine the Bears ability to run the ball now that most of the Packers defense is expected to be back?  No guarantee but I suspect the answer is yes.  Now if he throws another Pick 6 because the Bears defense is rolled up?  All bets are then off.  But I really don't think he'll do that.

[Spotcheck Billy]

Perhaps its time to keep all of the teams in the locker room until after the Anthem like it was before 2009.

[cheebs09]

Things would be better with a fully healthy O-line no doubt. However, sometimes I think Rodgers is a little better when he's forced to get it out quicker and take the short passes. Especially last year, there were a lot of times he would ignore guys 5 yards down the field who were open while hoping to hit the big play that wouldn't develop.

For instance, when he had the calf injury and couldn't extend plays, I think it made him more dangerous because he'd take the easy pass and move the chains.

[RJax55]

The Bears played well last week and in Week 1. The Packers haven't been sharp and are a couple plays/calls away from being 0-3. Maybe, just maybe...oh, nevermind. They're still the Bears.

Sigh...

The Pack will win fairly easily tonight.

The Bears have no passing attack. Hard to win that way in today's NFL. And, while the defense has been solid, they are not strong enough to carry this team to victory. The Bears won last week because Steelers tackling was extremely poor and their defense got gassed in the heat.

Just one step closer to the Trubisky era finally beginning.

[wadesworld]

As long as the Packers offense doesn't give up a defensive touchdown for the 3rd straight week they'll win by a touchdown +.  If they aren't setting up the Bears offense, I don't see the Bears scoring enough even if the Packers offense struggles.

[MU82]

If people have their hat on at sporting events, I ask them to take it off. If they don't it gets removed.

And then, if I see a young man holding his girlfriend's hand, I'll physically separate their hands and physically put his right hand over his heart and her right hand over her heart. I'll try not to touch her breast in the process, but if I do I'm probably going to jail for assault anyway, so I might as well make it worth my while.

And then, if I see a young man holding his boyfriend's hand, I'll punch 'em both in the face. Because there's nothing less 'Merican than gays acting all gay during the anthem.

And then, I'll go out into the corridor and scream at the top of my lungs, "Hey all you Commies! Get your pinko arses out of the hot dog lines and get into that stadium and show some respect!"

And then, of course, I'll have to slap myself because instead of respecting our flag and our anthem and our veterans and our president, I was too busy playing Anthem Vigilante.

And finally, I'll enjoy my night in jail for assaulting people. But it will have been worth it (assuming I don't get assaulted while there)!

I am JB ... and I not only make the policy in this country, but I enforce it** single-handedly!

**Unless the guy with the cap on or holding hands is 6-foot-8 and 250 pounds of sheer muscle. Then I might not be principled enough to take a stand because I'd rather not get my arse kicked from here to next Sunday.

[forgetful]

The Pack will win fairly easily tonight.

The Bears have no passing attack. Hard to win that way in today's NFL. And, while the defense has been solid, they are not strong enough to carry this team to victory. The Bears won last week because Steelers tackling was extremely poor and their defense got gassed in the heat.

Just one step closer to the Trubisky era finally beginning.

I hope you're right.  I'm not very confident given the state of the Pack's offensive line.