NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18

[Pakuni]

Interesting comments from Villanueva today. Seems like a standup guy.

[GGGG]

Interesting comments from Villanueva today. Seems like a standup guy.

Yes.  And is exactly why this is a complicated issue.

[Jay Bee]

Interesting comments from Villanueva today. Seems like a standup guy.

Or a flip floppin fish tryna please everyone, hey?

[rocket surgeon]

Interesting comments from Villanueva today. Seems like a standup guy.

don't forget about big ben-he's a standup guy too, eyynah?

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/trump-supports-booing-players-who-kneel-national-anthem-1042616

[jesmu84]

Rosa Parks wasn't protesting public transit. Ghandi's hunger strikes weren't protesting food/mealtimes. NFL (and 1 MLB) players aren't protesting the flag, anthem, military, veterans, etc.

As someone else said, want to see what the majority of those at NFL/sporting events think of the anthem? Take a look in the concourses

Also, if the discussion is "disrespecting the flag", might want to read up on the flag code.

[MU82]

i'll be waiting for all the apologies, well...not going to be holding my breath though

https://news.grabien.com/story-roger-goodell-ignoring-leagues-own-rule-book-letting-players

  "UPDATE: Snopes.com claims that this rule does not, in fact, exist. The article cites the rule quoted above and reports "No such wording appears in the 2017 version of the Official Playing Rules of the National Football League."
Yet the NFL's Game Operations Manual -- the 200-plus book the league refers to as its "bible" -- is different than its rulebook. It is not available to the public. The rule cited above comes from the league itself, via the Washington Post.
The Post reported Sunday that the NFL confirmed the rule's existence but emphasized their ability to enforce it selectively:
Under the league rule, the failure to be on the field for the anthem may result in discipline such as a fine, suspension or loss of a draft pick. But a league official said the key phrase is “may” result, adding he won’t speculate on whether the Steelers would be disciplined.
The specific rule pertaining to the national anthem is found on pages A62-63 of the league’s game operations manual, according to a league source.

UPDATE TWO: After Grabien contacted Snopes.com, bringing the above facts to their attention, the author amended his article, confirming the existence of the above-state rule, and changed their description of this story from "false" to "mixture." "

Apology? OK, the rest of Scoop is ready to accept your apology, because this "proof" you provide is only proof that you were wrong!

It's not a rule.

And even the enforcement of the guideline includes the word "may."

Goodell ain't enforcing anything. Nearly 10% of the league's players took some kind of action Sunday.

[MU82]

don't forget about big ben-he's a standup guy too, eyynah?

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/trump-supports-booing-players-who-kneel-national-anthem-1042616

Yeah, it will be interesting to see if all the folks who ordered Villanueva's jersey call quick to cancel their orders so they can buy Big Ben's.

After all, he proved in the past when he was assaulting women what a stand-up guy he was.

[tower912]

And big Ben has an opinion which he is allowed to express.  Just like the rest of the players in the league.  Constitutionally protected.

[MU82]

And big Ben has an opinion which he is allowed to express.  Just like the rest of the players in the league.  Constitutionally protected.

Agreed.

Look, I respect people who stand during the national anthem. I respect people who choose not to stand during the national anthem. I respect the fans who, while the anthem is playing, are waiting in line to buy hot dogs and beer - like the players, they are making a conscious choice (even if it has nothing to do with a protest) because they could have delayed their refreshments purchases until after the anthem.

I even respect people who say they wish all athletes would stand during the anthem as long as they express their displeasure logically and with at least a little decorum.

I have a hard time respecting those who rant and rave and call people names and claim that they are more American than those they disagree with.

I have the hardest time of all respecting those opinionated, knee-jerk bullies when they are supposed to be leaders and they claim to want to unite us.

I mean, even Trump's "friend," Tom Brady, says Trump was out of line! That's not a lib. That's not a Commie. That's not even a never-Trump Republican. That's a guy who campaigned for Trump, and he's telling his boy to chill the eff out!

[jesmu84]

Good on you, Jerry.

NASCAR.. the organization that takes a stance in forbidding any protest during a national anthem, but loves it some Confederate flag waving.

[Jay Bee]

MU82 has made big strides tonight. Impressive he's able to admit he has trouble respecting himself.

[GGGG]

Good on you, Jerry.

NASCAR.. the organization that takes a stance in forbidding any protest during a national anthem, but loves it some Confederate flag waving.

That won't help with the whole "diversifying its audience" thing.

[GooooMarquette]

I suspect -- actually, "know" is probably a more appropriate word choice -- that my position on this is at odds with most with whom I generally share political beliefs.  I am not "offended" by the protests.  I do not automatically have contempt for the protesters.  I actually believe that the vast majority of them love their country deeply and respect and honor the flag.  I don't think taking a knee during the National Anthem changes that.  While I don't necessarily see some of issues leading to the protests in the same way, I respect the right to protest.  Also, while it may not be the intention of the protesters, I note that in many contexts kneeling is viewed as a very reverent posture.  As I look at many of the protesters, I don't necessary see a lack of reverence.  Frankly, quite the contrary.  I see people who love their country but are very troubled by some of what they see happening.  While I will still stand for the Anthem and place my hand over my heart, I don't necessarily disagree with them in many respects.  Truth be told, I'd probably have a lower opinion of the protesters if they remained standing but turned their backs on the flag.

On many occasions I've seen people on the right complain about all the "outrage" that is manufactured on the left.  As someone who could fairly be described as right-leaning, the outrage over athletes (and others) who in my opinion are fairly solemnly and reverentially protesting during the National Anthem is more disturbing than the protest itself.

Just my opinion.  YMMV

Agree completely. 

[mu03eng]

And big Ben has an opinion which he is allowed to express.  Just like the rest of the players in the league.  Constitutionally protected.

I'm curious if the anthem protests or what is said at press conferences are constitutionally protected speech. Both are arguably part of the players performing their job and therefore subject to the same standards and constitutional limits we all have at work through legal precedent. *note this isn't grounds for objecting just a technical legal detail.

One thing that's very interesting and shows the hypocrisy of all sides is that Trump is a government official, once he objected it becomes protected speech(government can't prevent it). So those rule of law types are being hypocritical. Imagine if HRC were President and she stated that she thought race tracks should throw out anyone wearing some kind of confederate flag clothing...the right would howl(and the left would cheer, meaning everyone is a hypocrite)

[wadesworld]

So a football question for anyone interested. I don’t know what the Falcons’ timeout situation was at the end of the game yesterday, but theoretically let’s say they were out of timeouts and Golden Tate had in fact gotten into the end zone. Since it went to review but it would’ve been a dead ball situation with it being a touchdown, they would’ve still had 8 seconds for the kick off and any time left after the kick off, right? It’s only a 10 second run off if it would be a running clock after the play?

[Pakuni]

I'm curious if the anthem protests or what is said at press conferences are constitutionally protected speech. Both are arguably part of the players performing their job and therefore subject to the same standards and constitutional limits we all have at work through legal precedent. *note this isn't grounds for objecting just a technical legal detail.

They're constitutionally protected in the sense that the government can't punish or otherwise sanction a player for doing/saying these things, and can't create a law that prohibits them from doing/saying it. (there are, of course, exceptions, i.e. shouting fire in a crowded theater, but that's not what we're dealing with here).
But there's no protection against non-governmental consequences, like losing a job, social exile, etc.

One thing that's very interesting and shows the hypocrisy of all sides is that Trump is a government official, once he objected it becomes protected speech(government can't prevent it).

It was protected speech before Trump objected to it.

[mu03eng]

So a football question for anyone interested. I don’t know what the Falcons’ timeout situation was at the end of the game yesterday, but theoretically let’s say they were out of timeouts and Golden Tate had in fact gotten into the end zone. Since it went to review but it would’ve been a dead ball situation with it being a touchdown, they would’ve still had 8 seconds for the kick off and any time left after the kick off, right? It’s only a 10 second run off if it would be a running clock after the play?

Correct, only time there is a run off is if the reversal means it should have been a running clock all along

[mu03eng]

It was protected speech before Trump objected to it.

All well and good but until Trump there was no government entity trying to object to the protests. The argument about the protest has been they can protest because the veterans fought for the right to protest. That's a straw man because no government is taking away their rights. The business or fans objecting to their speech has no legal protection

[jsglow]

So the Packers are a beat up football team.  New long snapper today.  New OT tomorrow.  Need to get through Thursday and then get healthy over the mini bye.

[GGGG]

They're constitutionally protected in the sense that the government can't punish or otherwise sanction a player for doing/saying these things, and can't create a law that prohibits them from doing/saying it. (there are, of course, exceptions, i.e. shouting fire in a crowded theater, but that's not what we're dealing with here).
But there's no protection against non-governmental consequences, like losing a job, social exile, etc.

Correct.  It is not protected free speech.  If the NFL demands that they stand, and it is within the rules of the CBA, then the NFL can punish them for not standing.

[GGGG]

Best receivers in Packer history:

1. Don Hutson
2. Jordy Nelson
3. Sterling Sharpe
4. James Lofton
5. Donald Driver

[mu03eng]

So the Packers are a beat up football team.  New long snapper today.  New OT tomorrow.  Need to get through Thursday and then get healthy over the mini bye.

Top 5 tackles for the Packers are out for extended time....this is gonna be a loby season

[GGGG]

If I weren't a member of this tribe, I would find them completely insufferable.

http://deadspin.com/report-nfl-owner-who-is-actually-just-some-packers-1818768693

[cheebs09]

If I weren't a member of this tribe, I would find them completely insufferable.

http://deadspin.com/report-nfl-owner-who-is-actually-just-some-packers-1818768693

The JSComments twitter account does hurt the mystique a bit.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Rosa Parks wasn't protesting public transit. Ghandi's hunger strikes weren't protesting food/mealtimes. NFL (and 1 MLB) players aren't protesting the flag, anthem, military, veterans, etc.

As someone else said, want to see what the majority of those at NFL/sporting events think of the anthem? Take a look in the concourses

Also, if the discussion is "disrespecting the flag", might want to read up on the flag code.

How many people at an average sporting event fail to remove their hats when the anthem is played?  Hundreds?  What consequences should those disrespectful people face?