Another Black man killed by cops ... this time by accident?

[Jockey]

Weird, over two dozen states have anti-transrights bills working through their state legislatures right now, and can ya guess the political leaning of the authors of every single one?

Has that guy ever posted a “gotcha” post that makes sense?

[Goose]

rocket

I agree completely on the educational system being our hauled. My kids were fortunate enough to have complete freedom in their school choices, but I always said it was wasted on our kids because they likely would be successful regardless of their choices. 100% believe that inner city kids would have benefited more than our kids did.

IMO, family and education makes the world go round, along with green. First two give everyone a fighting chance to get the cash. Bad cops suck, bad parents suck more IMO.

[reinko]

rocket

I agree completely on the educational system being our hauled. My kids were fortunate enough to have complete freedom in their school choices, but I always said it was wasted on our kids because they likely would be successful regardless of their choices. 100% believe that inner city kids would have benefited more than our kids did.

IMO, family and education makes the world go round, along with green. First two give everyone a fighting chance to get the cash. Bad cops suck, bad parents suck more IMO.

Goose, I’m not trying being argumentative, and while we probably tilt politically a bit different, my guess is your children didn’t have complete freedom in their school choice.

My instinct is that based off your posting history you have been successful in your professional life, giving yourself the well-earned financial flexibility to live in a great school district when your children were in the K-12 schools (public or private), thus then giving them freedom to choose their postsecondary path.

I say this not as a “gotcha”, but it’s kinda easy to say school choice, vouchers, give parents the freedom to send their kids to any school, but if dug more than one inch into these talking points it’s untenable.

[Uncle Rico]

Has that guy ever posted a “gotcha” post that makes sense?

No

[shoothoops]

I am curious on how many on here have actually had conversations with the black community over BLM, thoughts on police and general feelings on race issues. I am nosy and often engage black friends on the topic and the responses are always well thought and interesting. Now, before any idiot jumps in and assumes that my black friends all fall into a certain economic group I want to state clearly that 90% of my friendships are with people I see at the health club or via work. I love candid conversations and truly do care and listen to people's thoughts.

Like most things in the world today, I try and take the top 10-20% and bottom 10-20% of the kooks out of my thought process. Over the past couple of years I have finally learned that I cannot stand kooks that are extreme, regardless of their beliefs. I have avoided long time friends because IMO they have become whack jobs and zealots for a cause.

All that said, I seldom go a day without interaction (conversation) with a black person and my experience in conversation is the consensus say that BLM does not speak for them and have been offended by the white supporters that speak on their behalf. Would add that the consensus are more disgusted with the black on black crime than they are with the police issues. Of course the Minneapolis thing was horrible and they were disgusted by it. One friend told me he is more concerned about a loved one getting hit by a car (carjacking, police chase, etc.) than he is concerned about them being injured/killed by the police.

I don't get my nose out of joint with the BLM movement, nor do I get my nose out of joint when someone says all lives matter. Fact is, all lives do matter. I said it yesterday, I think blacks have a crapload of issues to be mad about and bad cops would not be number one.

Lastly, it is funny but a number of my liberal leaning friends made comments over the past week that confirmed my belief that we all have bias, even the biggest talkers. Bias is real, but I believe that most of mankind is good and flat out racism is reserved for the fringe kooks of any group. I don't think it is wrong to want police reform and I believe you can also care equally about the need to end black on black violence. Honestly, any effort (time or money) that I allocate to fix the problem goes to making the inner city a safer and better place. The future of a stable America starts with an improved inner city, not weeding out 3-5% (just picked a number) of ass hole cops, IMO.

My experience has been a bit different.

Black people I know do not choose one or the other with regard to Black on Black crime and negative experiences with Police. I could not say they are more upset by the former.

I would also add that they are more concerned about Police than getting hit by a random car etc..

I don’t believe Racism is as “fringe” as you believe. In fact, one of the problems I experience is far too many White who people believe this. And far too many White people in my experience don’t get involved enough with regard to being a part of the solutions. I see lots and lots of indifferent avoidance from many White people. They are White, it’s not something they have to deal with, so they just avoid people, places, situations, and it isn’t something that is  in their daily life other than running into someone at work, a gym, a store, etc which isn’t what we I am talking about.

There are good police. (I know some) There are bad police. (I know some) There are average police (I know some). There are also bad nurses, doctors, just as there are good and average ones.

One small sign of progress is video, and access to video. Video helped Derek Chauvin get convicted. Video, and access to video, helped get charges get filed against Kim Potter etc...

(I have Black people in my family. I have Black friends. I spend a lot of time with and around Black people of all ages and all socioeconomic backgrounds in various types of geographies)

[brewcity77]

Fluffy had a good comparison. If people went to the Holocaust memorial with signs and shirts reading "All Genocides Matter," or tried to rename Holocaust Remembrance Day, "Genocide Remembrance Day," how would you take that?

Would you think, that's a good idea, All Genocides Matter, or would you think, this is "anti-semitism" and a direct attack on Jews? My guess is well over 90% of the people that say "All Lives Matter" would be in an uproar if the above happened...and they would be right.

And that is the point, everyone agrees that everyone's life matters, but the world doesn't act that way. In our society we have ignored the plight of people of color. The phrase "Black Lives Matter" is a reminder of the fact that we need to treat everyone with respect, to highlight the historic mistreatment of people of color.

Just like the Holocaust memorial, and the Holocaust Remembrance Day are designed to remind us all of historic mistreatment of the Jews.

Very well said.

[21Jumpstreet]

  racist??  so all lives don't matter?  you know this includes black lives right?  here we go...redefining the words to suit your beliefs and to censor/shut down those you don't agree with using the ever growing term...racist.  lazy thinking brew

Of course all lives matter, and, you’re right, all lives matter isn’t racist on the surface. It is often times used in response to Black Lives Matter as a way to shift the focus from issues for our people of color that many people feel deserve attention and change. Personally, I don’t let it bother me too much, you do you.

People that say ALM for me fall into a handful of categories: they mean and live it all day every day, truly, and are incredible humans, they are sarcastic and dismissive, they are ignorant, they are prejudiced, they are racist. Perhaps you are the first, and I commend you. I would say, if you are the first you would openly acknowledge that Black Lives Matter. If you are the others, you are deceiving yourself and have total control over your beliefs and knowledge.

The response to Black Lives Matter is “absolutely” nothing more.

[cheebs09]

Just so I understand your point of view:   If you say "ALM" or something to deflect attention from the literal phrase "Black Lives Matter" it is problematic and or racist like many have stated on this thread?  However, if you criticize the BLM organization that may in fact not be a problem or racist?  I just want to be clear on your point here. Ty.

I’ve not done a ton of research into BLM Inc., but from why I’ve read here, there are some real issues with that organization. Whether it’s how it’s run or the methodologies. I don’t think it’s unfair to call out an organization.

Calling out the actions of the Catholic Church doesn’t mean you are prejudice against Catholics. Calling out the actions of an organization isn’t necessarily problematic.

Where I think the issue is is when people take anything that mentions BLM, and the response is that should be disregarded because All Lives Matter or Blue Lives Matter. Yes, they all do.

However, to ignore the fact that Black people have some hurdles that White people don’t have to deal with doesn’t help. In my opinion, BLM is to call attention to these issues and hope to promote change where we get to a point that everyone is treated equally.

It’s not always because people are racist. A lot of times it’s unconscious bias that we aren’t aware of. Acknowledging those biases doesn’t mean you’re a bad person. It’s just something to be mindful of and possibly change if they are harmful to others.

This is a bit long-winded and may be a bit tangled, but just my 2 cents. It’s an incredibly complicated issue that no one has all the answers. Just that hopefully we are all trying to make the world a better place for others.

[JWags85]

The comparison one of my closest friends, who is black, made to me was that your neighbor’s house is on fire.  So they need help.  Some says “why should we, all houses matter, not just theirs”.  Yes all houses matter and should be cared for and taken care of, but this one is on fire right now and needs assistance.  That doesn’t mean the other houses aren’t as important or don’t matter, it’s just a question of direct attention and need at the time.

As for BLM Inc or whatever the org would be known as, his take was a bit more nuanced. He totally gets the complaints and he doesn’t necessarily agree with all of their stances, but if they are fighting for change to help the black community and make progress, he finds it hard to oppose too much.  And I totally get that.  The enemy of my enemy (racism and inequality, system/institutional or otherwise) is my friend

[Galway Eagle]

The comparison one of my closest friends, who is black, made to me was that your neighbor’s house is on fire.  So they need help.  Some says “why should we, all houses matter, not just theirs”.  Yes all houses matter and should be cared for and taken care of, but this one is on fire right now and needs assistance.  That doesn’t mean the other houses aren’t as important or don’t matter, it’s just a question of direct attention and need at the time.

As for BLM Inc or whatever the org would be known as, his take was a bit more nuanced. He totally gets the complaints and he doesn’t necessarily agree with all of their stances, but if they are fighting for change to help the black community and make progress, he finds it hard to oppose too much.  And I totally get that.  The enemy of my enemy (racism and inequality, system/institutional or otherwise) is my friend

That comparison is a political cartoon that's been making it's rounds.

http://chainsawsuit.com/comic/2014/12/09/a-brightshadow-interlude/

[MU82]

Really like those comments, Wags and cheebs. Both are dead-on.

It would be nice if a few of the Scoopers whose knee-jerk reaction is to say, "All lives matter," would weigh in on them. I like to think they can see the logic (and decency) in those examples.

[YaBlueIt]

That comparison is a political cartoon that's been making it's rounds.

http://chainsawsuit.com/comic/2014/12/09/a-brightshadow-interlude/

I think you meant to list this one, from 12/8/14:

http://chainsawsuit.com/comic/2014/12/08/all-things-considered/

[rocket surgeon]

Of course all lives matter, and, you’re right, all lives matter isn’t racist on the surface. It is often times used in response to Black Lives Matter as a way to shift the focus from issues for our people of color that many people feel deserve attention and change. Personally, I don’t let it bother me too much, you do you.

People that say ALM for me fall into a handful of categories: they mean and live it all day every day, truly, and are incredible humans, they are sarcastic and dismissive, they are ignorant, they are prejudiced, they are racist. Perhaps you are the first, and I commend you. I would say, if you are the first you would openly acknowledge that Black Lives Matter. If you are the others, you are deceiving yourself and have total control over your beliefs and knowledge.

The response to Black Lives Matter is “absolutely” nothing more.

  excellent comment 21!  as i've stated in previous comments-i believe the african american population needs help and support and rightly so.  i do mean and i do live it every day.  i do pray every day for peace between all men.  the voices of the black people who need and want change and help are not being heard.  the media gives voice to the wrong people who do not sincerely have the black people's best interests at heart. the media perpetrates the divisions then stands back and watches, then writes a sensational story, wash rinse and repeat.  if they would write the good stories, regardless of political leanings, better progress could be made.  i thought we were making some progress before as our first african american president was elected, to 2 terms btw...

2 of the most substantive issues black families face- 

  an overwhelming number, 60-80% of the black population support the police.  that doesn't mean they don't think there needs to be changes as i do as well.  i've said countless times that the police needs to do better policing themselves.  the black population as a whole needs to do better policing itself as well.  there are a number of articles that will support this, but i tried to reference one that most here would accept.   

  https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/03/07/usa-today-ipsos-poll-just-18-support-defund-police-movement/4599232001/

black people support school choice by an overwhelming majority.  why don't their supposed representatives listen?  very simple-because the teachers union gives them(the politicians) more money.  regardless of whether or not you think the cato institute is fair and balanced, this is a really well written article

  https://www.cato.org/blog/african-americans-speak-themselves-most-want-school-choice

it's hard to have a discussion without some disagreement before progress can be made.  people who do not necessarily nod in 100% agreement are not necessarily racist.   for fear of being labeled as one, shuts down a lot of good healthy discussion/debate, unchecked demagoguery is perpetrated and nothing is accomplished

 

[forgetful]

black people support school choice by an overwhelming majority.  why don't their supposed representatives listen?  very simple-because the teachers union gives them(the politicians) more money.  regardless of whether or not you think the cato institute is fair and balanced, this is a really well written article

  https://www.cato.org/blog/african-americans-speak-themselves-most-want-school-choice

Do you then also support a mandate where schools have to accept anyone interested in attending regardless of ability to pay, and where no out of pocket expenses can be charged (beyond a government voucher)? And where they are required to provide free transportation to and from school for their students.

And it would be wrong to not include that they are required to provide free and/or reduced lunch prices to students who qualify, and breakfast for students who qualify. Do you support all of these elements too?

Not to mention that even if all of these elements were put in place, it would still put the burden of finding the right school on parents, who in disadvantaged communities suffer from decades of mistreatment (low education/poor resources), and who may be working 3 minimum wage jobs just to have a roof over their heads. To ease this burden, would you support a program where free consultants found the absolutely best schools for those most in need?

[MU82]

  excellent comment 21!  as i've stated in previous comments-i believe the african american population needs help and support and rightly so.  i do mean and i do live it every day.  i do pray every day for peace between all men.  the voices of the black people who need and want change and help are not being heard.  the media gives voice to the wrong people who do not sincerely have the black people's best interests at heart. the media perpetrates the divisions then stands back and watches, then writes a sensational story, wash rinse and repeat.  if they would write the good stories, regardless of political leanings, better progress could be made.  i thought we were making some progress before as our first african american president was elected, to 2 terms btw...

Perfect. It's the media's fault that your knee-jerk reaction to the pain being suffered by an entire race is to dismiss it by saying, "All lives matter."

[Galway Eagle]

School districts are more closely tied into home value not a teachers union rocket. That is the modern white flight

[Hards Alumni]

Just for ol' rocket

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

  excellent comment 21! 

I don't think you read what he wrote, because what you said after this wasn't exactly consistent with his point of view.

[rocket surgeon]

I don't think you read what he wrote, because what you said after this wasn't exactly consistent with his point of view.

  i can like and agree with his comment without parroting it

regardless of what i say, isn't going to go without criticism of some sort but that's ok.  i'm not here to write a book  trying to convey everything i believe.  suffice it to say that i hope race relations thru and thru continue to improve

82-our media is far from balanced  but not solely responsible for the unrest.  never said it was all on the media but it sucks big time

[MU82]

  i can like and agree with his comment without parroting it

regardless of what i say, isn't going to go without criticism of some sort but that's ok.  i'm not here to write a book  trying to convey everything i believe.  suffice it to say that i hope race relations thru and thru continue to improve

82-our media is far from balanced  but not solely responsible for the unrest.  never said it was all on the media but it sucks big time

It's a familiar theme of yours, a real fall-back position for you whenever there's something you don't like: Blame the media.

As I said earlier, you should read the comments by Wags (a level-headed conservative) and cheebs (don't know his politics) on why "all lives matter" is a horsebleep response to "Black lives matter."

[Mutaman]

Some friendly advice, rocket: Don't take everything Fox News and the New York Post tells you as Gospel. You do so, and then spread falsehoods here, which makes you look silly.

While some social media users suggested that the purchases were evidence that Khan-Cullors had been enriched by the movement, our research revealed no evidence that Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation funds were used to purchase property. Khan-Cullors has held several other jobs in addition to her work as the organization’s volunteer executive director, including writing a memoir and developing content for Warner Brothers.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/04/19/fact-check-misleading-claim-blm-co-founders-real-estate/7241450002/

As for BLM Inc. not opening its books, that's because the IRS didn't grant it nonprofit status until December. Now that it has that status, it will be required to file annual reports with the federal government.
Also, this:
https://apnews.com/article/black-lives-matter-90-million-finances-8a80cad199f54c0c4b9e74283d27366f

I have no stake in BLM Inc. one way or another, but if you want to be critical of the organization, back it up with facts, not Murdoch Family talking points.

Well to be honest, I have found discarded NY Posts on the subway to be great for lining the litter box.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/27/business/media/new-york-post-kamala-harris.html


https://thehill.com/homenews/media/550599-reporter-who-wrote-viral-ny-post-story-about-harris-book-at-the-border-resigns

[Jockey]

Well to be honest, I have found discarded NY Posts on the subway to be great for lining the litter box.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/27/business/media/new-york-post-kamala-harris.html


https://thehill.com/homenews/media/550599-reporter-who-wrote-viral-ny-post-story-about-harris-book-at-the-border-resigns

No respectable cat would use a litterbox lined with the New York Post.

[Mutaman]

No respectable cat would use a litterbox lined with the New York Post.

They like to poop on Muschnick.

[MU82]

The police have made a real mess of things in Elizabeth City, NC, a town of about 20K in far northeastern NC, where cops shot Andrew Brown Jr. with what a private autopsy called "a kill shot in the back of the head."

In addition to what looks like an unnecessary kill, anger has been fueled by failure to release any police body-cam footage in the week since the shooting. There have been verbal conflicts between protesters and police, but the only physical contact appeared to come last night, when police forcefully arrested protesters for violating curfew.

At one point, protesters asked: “Why are you in riot gear? There’s no riot here!”

North Carolina Gov. Roy Cooper has called for a special prosecutor to investigate Brown’s death. And the FBI has launched a civil rights investigation into the shooting.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article250992969.html?

In other words, just another week in America.

[MU82]

For the aggrieved "all lives matter" set who believe white folks aren't getting equal treatment, here's a white 73-year-old woman with dementia also getting abused by police. So ... Congratulations?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/27/us/loveland-police-video-karen-garner.html?utm_term=OZY&utm_campaign=pdb&utm_content=Wednesday_04.28.21&utm_source=Campaigner&utm_medium=email

A video released this week shows Colorado police officers laughing at footage of their department’s roadside arrest of a 73-year-old woman with dementia.

The woman, Karen Garner of Loveland, Colo., walked out of a Walmart last year without paying for $13.88 worth of items. Police officers broke a bone in her arm and dislocated her shoulder, according to a lawsuit she filed against the city and the officers.

In the newly released footage, an hourlong video uploaded to YouTube by the law firm representing Ms. Garner, three Loveland police officers laugh while they watch footage of Ms. Garner’s arrest.

“Hear the pop?” one officer says.

“What did you pop?” asks another.

“I think it was her shoulder,” the first officer responds.

“Can you stop it now?” one officer says as they watch the body camera footage of the arrest. “I hate it.”

“I love it,” another officer says, with a laugh. “This is great.”

Before watching the footage, one officer asks another if he had read Ms. Garner her Miranda rights. The officer says he had not.

“I can’t believe I threw a 73-year-old on the ground,” one officer says.

The Loveland Police Department did not immediately respond to questions about the footage on Tuesday.

In a statement last week, the department said that it was investigating the episode, and that the arresting officer had been placed on administrative leave. An officer who assisted in the arrest and an “on-scene supervisor” were reassigned to administrative duties, the department said.

“LPD takes very seriously the allegations concerning the arrest of resident Karen Garner, and shares with the community the concerns about video images that became public,” the department said.

On Tuesday, Ms. Garner’s relatives said they were “physically sickened” by the arrest.

“The Loveland Police treated her like an animal,” the family said in a statement. “They laughed and fist-bumped while they were doing it. They reveled in her pain and did nothing to address it. They relished in stripping her of all dignity.”