Another Black man killed by cops ... this time by accident?

[ZiggysFryBoy]

I believe that if Daunte Wright was white, he wouldn't have been pulled over for having an air-freshener hanging from his rearview mirror.

The car had expired tags.  The air freshener was what he told his mom.  His mom gave him the car with the expired tags.

Not making excuses for him getting shot and killed but please use facts.

[Hards Alumni]

The car had expired tags.  The air freshener was what he told his mom.  His mom gave him the car with the expired tags.

Not making excuses for him getting shot and killed but please use facts.

It was for both.  But as we've discussed ad nauseum, there is no reason to have a confrontation over such a stupid thing.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

It was for both.  But as we've discussed ad nauseum, there is no reason to have a confrontation over such a stupid thing.

I expect more out of professor forgetful.

[JWags85]

The officer told Toledo what to do. The suspect complied and was shot anyway.

How long I took to make a decision doesn't matter. The officer was wrong. He killed a 13-year old. The only question that should remain in everyones mind is what should the charges be.

I’m not trying to make Toledo out to be a criminal but people keep saying he “complied”.   And they keep showing the freeze frame as he was shot.  Like he threw his hands up and then turned around slowly with then in view and got smoked anyways.

 But he was more than halfway turned around before he ever began raising his hands, including the hand that had a gun it in 5 seconds before.  Which is why there was just the single shot in my opinion. 

It’s a tragic situation but it feels so much less wonton than many of the other high profile shootings. It’s just glaring cause it was a young kid

This Columbus story though, my god, I have no damn idea what they could even begin to try to explain away. Just horrific

[21Jumpstreet]

I can understand how some can feel the Floyd murder wasn’t about race. I don’t think the officers woke up and said let’s kill a black man for a stupid reason (any reason). In the moment Floyd was murdered, I can see that one may think it wasn’t race motivated.

And, the systems and policies that we have put in place in this country (the war on drugs, for example) then put the cops in charge of monitoring, enforcing, and, yes, litigating on the streets are race motivated. The policies and enforcement have proven to skew on the basis of race. I personally think the skew has come from the policies and enforcement not from the behavior of a specific race.

I think it’s disingenuous to say the murder of George Floyd wasn’t race based, I think we need to dig a whole lot deeper than the 8:46 minutes during which he was slowly murdered.

[JWags85]

I’ve been thinking a lot about the racial components of this today.  Specifically jogged when you see 2 of the other 3 officers involved besides Chauvin are not white.

I have a story that while not policing related, sort of highlights the underlying issue a lot of times.

One of my mom’s cousins was in Vegas about 25 years ago.  She was staying at Caesars, nice hotel, and had a big hit at the slots, so she’s heading back to her room with a big bucket of coins middle of the afternoon.  She gets in the elevator, goes up a level, doors open and 3 African American men get in, 2 quite large.  She immediately gets sort of anxious.  Her floor arrives and she moves to get out, they do as well, and one moves partially past her (to hold the door) and she freaks out, hurries, stumbles, bucket falls and coins go everywhere. They immediately stop and help her, she realizes how silly she was and laughs embarrassingly, and they kind of chuckle as they help her clean up and make it to her room.

She’s not racist in the least.  She went on mission trips to Africa and Central with her church.  She’s actually a grandmother to two minority grandkids her daughter and SIL adopted.  But she in her head thought “group of black guys=threatening”.  Probably wouldn’t have thought the same about 3 frat dudes getting on, or some corn fed farmboy OLinemen from NDSU.  Just that sneaky ingrained idea of threat from a broken system.

Same idea I think applies to police.  Whether training or stereotypes or biases from experiences in “bad neighborhoods” and suddenly “brown=bad”, even if they are brown/non white themselves.  Which is so more complex and insidious than the easy “oh the cop is just racist/white supremacist/hates black people” conclusion

EDIT: I realized this story sounds a lot like an urban legend but I can assure that it’s true and doesn’t have any of the classic “lines” that pop up in the traditional tellings 

[Pakuni]

I’m not trying to make Toledo out to be a criminal but people keep saying he “complied”.   And they keep showing the freeze frame as he was shot.  Like he threw his hands up and then turned around slowly with then in view and got smoked anyways.

 But he was more than halfway turned around before he ever began raising his hands, including the hand that had a gun it in 5 seconds before.  Which is why there was just the single shot in my opinion. 

Here's where I struggle with this explanation ... when it comes to using deadly force, cops can't be in the business of guessing. And even in the most generous interpretation of what happened, guessing is what you have here.
We know the officer didn't see a gun in the kid's hand, because there was no gun. We know the officer didn't see anything that might have even looked like a gun ... a wallet, a phone, a set of  keys, etc. ... because the kid's hands were open and empty. So the cop at best guessed that the kid had a gun and opened fire, rather than wait the half second longer it would have taken to be certain.
And I can't pretend to know how difficult, and probably terrifying, that half-second is for the cop. It's not an easy thing to do, by any stretch. But if you're not willing or able to be reasonably certain that the person you're about to kill is armed, then you probably shouldn't be chasing that person down an alley. Better yet, you probably shouldn't be a cop. Police officers being allowed to gun down citizens based on a suspicion that they might have a weapon doesn't seem a particularly good idea to me.

[forgetful]

The car had expired tags.  The air freshener was what he told his mom.  His mom gave him the car with the expired tags.

Not making excuses for him getting shot and killed but please use facts.

I was under the impression that the order was reversed. He was stopped for the air-freshener, and then they noticed the expired tags.

Where I live, you can't tell vehicle registration is expired unless you run the plates, or the car is already stopped, so there would be no way to know they were expired unless you pulled them over already.

If that is not the case in Minnesota, I apologize. But given that he told his mom he was pulled over for the air freshener, immediately after the police told him why he was pulled over, makes me a bit suspicious about the actual order of events.

[GooooMarquette]

Here's where I struggle with this explanation ... when it comes to using deadly force, cops can't be in the business of guessing. And even in the most generous interpretation of what happened, guessing is what you have here.
We know the officer didn't see a gun in the kid's hand, because there was no gun. We know the officer didn't see anything that might have even looked like a gun ... a wallet, a phone, a set of  keys, etc. ... because the kid's hands were open and empty. So the cop at best guessed that the kid had a gun and opened fire, rather than wait the half second longer it would have taken to be certain.
And I can't pretend to know how difficult, and probably terrifying, that half-second is for the cop. It's not an easy thing to do, by any stretch. But if you're not willing or able to be reasonably certain that the person you're about to kill is armed, then you probably shouldn't be chasing that person down an alley. Better yet, you probably shouldn't be a cop. Police officers being allowed to gun down citizens based on a suspicion that they might have a weapon doesn't seem a particularly good idea to me.

Agree. It is an extremely difficult job, but when you pull the trigger, you can’t be guessing the suspect might be holding a gun. You have to be sure that he is.

[CountryRoads]

I believe that if Daunte Wright was white, he wouldn't have been pulled over for having an air-freshener hanging from his rearview mirror.

They likely just ran his plates while they were driving behind him and saw he had a warrant out for a violent crime and then found something trivial to pull him over for, no?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I think there is police racial bias, especially with profiling and pulling people over.  But when it comes to these particular high profile cases we do not know if race played any role in these situations.  These aren't random people that have not committed crimes.

If we do not know if race played a role, how could you say that this wasn't about race?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Bruh.  The world is going to pass you by faster than the older guys around here.  Educate yourself properly before it does, and join the rest of the world and understand that this case was 100% about race.

If George Flloyd was a white guy named Edward McClosky he wouldn't have been killed because he wouldn't have been treated the way he was.   Are you seriously trying to make a claim like this?  Are you out of your mind? 

Muggsy just refuses to believe what is pretty obvious.  <shrug>

[rocket surgeon]

  so mrs. p is thanking george floyd for taking one for the team??  come on man!! the floyd family had to have thrown up in their mouths a little after hearing this comment

can't imagine why nance ain't tasked with writing eulogies for a living

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

  so mrs. p is thanking george floyd for taking one for the team??  come on man!! the floyd family had to have thrown up in their mouths a little after hearing this comment

can't imagine why nance ain't tasked with writing eulogies for a living

Her comment was dumb and tasteless.  Glad you got enraged about something.

[Golden Avalanche]

  so mrs. p is thanking george floyd for taking one for the team??  come on man!! the floyd family had to have thrown up in their mouths a little after hearing this comment

can't imagine why nance ain't tasked with writing eulogies for a living

The emptiness of your head must be so vast for you to do backflips being snarky about someone ill at ease with extemporaneous speaking considering you've spent every one of the past 364 weeks textually fellating a marauding and mealy mouthed mango miscreant. 

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Her comment was dumb and tasteless.  Glad you got enraged about something.

Yup, Pelosi's dumb comment was the one thing that got the idiot angry in the whole case.

[Pakuni]

  so mrs. p is thanking george floyd for taking one for the team??  come on man!! the floyd family had to have thrown up in their mouths a little after hearing this comment

can't imagine why nance ain't tasked with writing eulogies for a living

I see you're focused on the truly consequential thing that happened today.
What's in Tucker's yearbook?

[MuggsyB]

Muggsy just refuses to believe what is pretty obvious.  <shrug>

Muggsy does not.  Muggsy wants a comprehensive discussion as opposed to agreeing to a narrative that will not solve these problems from a long-term perspective.  There isn't a single person I know that doesn't believe Chauvin is a scumbag that deserves to be in prison.  I would bet the same is true of every person posting in this thread.  The verdict being a commentary and validation of systemic racism and police brutality is what I have a problem with accepting. 

[rocket surgeon]

I see you're focused on the truly consequential thing that happened today.
What's in Tucker's yearbook?

  how are your cnn boys humpty dumpty stelter, don (not juan) lemone and jeffrey (me time) toobin doing for ya

[Uncle Rico]

  how are your cnn boys humpty dumpty stelter, don (not juan) lemone and jeffrey (me time) toobin doing for ya

Are you really a dentist?

[ATL MU Warrior]

Are you really a dentist?

It’s scary isn’t it?

[MU82]

Very impressed by the jury. They believed what they saw with their own eyes, they believed the testimony of Chauvin's own superiors and co-workers, and they unanimously reached the obvious conclusion relatively quickly.

[shoothoops]

Muggsy does not.  Muggsy wants a comprehensive discussion as opposed to agreeing to a narrative that will not solve these problems from a long-term perspective.  There isn't a single person I know that doesn't believe Chauvin is a scumbag that deserves to be in prison.  I would bet the same is true of every person posting in this thread.  The verdict being a commentary and validation of systemic racism and police brutality is what I have a problem with accepting.

So you disagree with Tucker Carlson?

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1384688301962141697?s=19

https://www.newsweek.com/nope-done-tucker-carlson-shuts-down-interview-after-guest-said-chauvin-used-excessive-force-1585246?amp=1&__twitter_impression=true

https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/status/1384663851447242758?s=19

[MU82]

So you disagree with Tucker Carlson?

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1384688301962141697?s=19

https://www.newsweek.com/nope-done-tucker-carlson-shuts-down-interview-after-guest-said-chauvin-used-excessive-force-1585246?amp=1&__twitter_impression=true

https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/status/1384663851447242758?s=19

Aw, Tucker's just setting up his 2024 presidential run, courting all the "law and order" folks who believe law and order only applies to "others."

[MU82]

At first look, it appears that Columbus police were justified in shooting a teenage Black girl who was wielding a knife and threatening others with it.

https://apnews.com/article/columbus-ohio-police-shooting-teenage-girl-0c04a74691f3f3fb3895d6220c729080

As I said, "looks like." We'll see what further details come out, but it does appear that the deceased was a real and present threat to others.