Another Black man killed by cops ... this time by accident?

[MuggsyB]

Because one has nothing to do with the other.

We rely upon our police to protect and serve us. We play their salaries. They work for us. When somebody we pay to protect and serve us instead terrorizes us, it is a breach of public trust.

Trying to use other crimes or criminals to somehow justify bad and/or careless cops is a bad look, Muggs. Trying to play gotcha: "Oh, then you don't care about other murders" is beneath you.

It's like saying, "If you get worked up because a priest rapes a dozen little boys, it proves you don't care about all the other rapes that aren't done by priests, the ones that happen 1000 times more frequently." It's false logic and totally unrelated.

And politicians work for us too.  Who's running these cities and these police depts?  We've talked about the root issues before MU82, and we agree on many things about where it needs to start.  But the narrative that these police depts are systemically racist, 5 secs after these tragic events, doesn't help anything imo. 

I mean is the goal for everyone to simply admit this as fact?  Even in cases where the departments are 50% minorities?   Let's for arguments sake say 95% of Americans agreed police are systemically racist as is White America.  Then what?  Would the root issues and potential solutions be different?

[MU82]

And politicians work for us too.  Who's running these cities and these police depts?  We've talked about the root issues before MU82, and we agree on many things about where it needs to start.  But the narrative that these police depts are systemically racist, 5 secs after these tragic events, doesn't help anything imo. 

I mean is the goal for everyone to simply admit this as fact?  Even in cases where the departments are 50% minorities?   Let's for arguments sake say 95% of Americans agreed police are systemically racist as is White America.  Then what?  Would the root issues and potential solutions be different?

OK Muggs. I like you too much on the basketball board to go at this yet again. Have a good one.

[MuggsyB]

OK Muggs. I like you too much on the basketball board to go at this yet again. Have a good one.

You as well MU82.  I think we just disagree on solutions and a few other narratives.  Take care.

[Hards Alumni]

No one said "shoot everyone."  No one said Wright didn't have a "worse day."

I don't understand .. you're dismissing the "whoopsie daisy" argument, but then say it was probably an accident.    Which is it? 

I apologize for not finding what you laid out "needs to be done" as you've posted a ton in this thread.  Could you link to it?

*fart noises* rtft

[ZiggysFryBoy]

13 year old Adam Toledo killed in Chicagi is goddamn sickening.

[Pakuni]

13 year old Adam Toledo killed in Chicagi is goddamn sickening.

Yeah. Hoping it's not an ugly night in the city, but that's bad. Not Laquan McDonald bad, and to his credit the cop tried to help the kid right away, but that's hard to watch and impossible to justify.

[Skatastrophy]

13 year old Adam Toledo killed in Chicagi is goddamn sickening.

+1

We have to terminate the prosecutor that said last week that Adam Toledo had a gun in his hands when he got shot. The city tried to walk that crap back right before they released the video saying "he didn't have all the information."

ACAB.

[GooooMarquette]

13 year old Adam Toledo killed in Chicagi is goddamn sickening.

Yep. Inexcusable for the officer to shoot, and for the prosecutor to claim the boy had a gun in his hand when he was shot.

[mu_hilltopper]

Really? 

13 year old running with a gun (and has GSR on his hands, so has fired the gun) chased by police at 2:30am.  A second before the cop gets to him, he does indeed toss the gun and raises his hands.  In the darkness, the cop doesn't see that the kid has dropped it and shoots, because a second before, he was armed.

Tough crowd.

Off the subject, but watching these past few police videos .. man, I would not want to be a cop in a major city.    There's been 34 murders in Chicago since this 13 year old, roughly one every 12 hours, all across the city.    It's hard to wrap my head around people who do that job and are around a murder at least weekly, let alone 3 times as many rapes, 10 times as many aggravated assaults. 

[MU82]

Really? 

13 year old running with a gun (and has GSR on his hands, so has fired the gun) chased by police at 2:30am.  A second before the cop gets to him, he does indeed toss the gun and raises his hands.  In the darkness, the cop doesn't see that the kid has dropped it and shoots, because a second before, he was armed.

Tough crowd.

Off the subject, but watching these past few police videos .. man, I would not want to be a cop in a major city.    There's been 34 murders in Chicago since this 13 year old, roughly one every 12 hours, all across the city.    It's hard to wrap my head around people who do that job and are around a murder at least weekly, let alone 3 times as many rapes, 10 times as many aggravated assaults.

I dunno. He yells at the kid to put his effen hands up. The kid tosses the gun and puts his hands up. The officer fires anyway.

[Pakuni]

Really? 

13 year old running with a gun (and has GSR on his hands, so has fired the gun) chased by police at 2:30am.  A second before the cop gets to him, he does indeed toss the gun and raises his hands.  In the darkness, the cop doesn't see that the kid has dropped it and shoots, because a second before, he was armed.

Just to be clear, GSR doesn't mean that he fired a gun. It means he held a gun that had been recently fired. In this case, a different person has been charged with firing the gun. What seems likely is that this older person fired the gun and then gave it to the kid, as gang members do, to hide it. That way, if someone gets caught with the gun, it's a juvie who faces no serious consequences, rather than an adult gang member.
Regardless, as already has been pointed out. The cop told the kid to stop, drop the weapon and raise his hands. The kid stopped, dropped the weapon and raised his hands. The cop shot him anyhow.
Nobody's suggesting that being a police officer is easy, or this wasn't a challenging circumstance for the cop here. But ultimately, he killed a 13-year-old boy who had followed the officer's orders and had his hands in the air. Not sure how anyone can excuse that away.

[mu_hilltopper]

I dunno. He yells at the kid to put his effen hands up. The kid tosses the gun and puts his hands up. The officer fires anyway.

Adding, that the gun toss was behind the fence .. so the cop (and camera) don't see the gun being tossed.  The 13 year old's arm is obscured behind the fence until it's raised.

So the officer has what, maybe .5 of a second to decide, does this guy have a gun or not?

Robocop, we need you.

[MU82]

Tough job, 'topper. That we agree on. Shooting a 13-year-old who has put his hands up after you tell him to doesn't make it easier.

[GooooMarquette]

The cop told the kid to stop, drop the weapon and raise his hands. The kid stopped, dropped the weapon and raised his hands. The cop shot him anyhow.

That's the key to me. Why the hell would you tell him to do that if you're gonna shoot him either way?

It's definitely a tough job, but you still don't shoot first and ask questions later.

[Autoengineer]

*fart noises* rtft

Amazing insight.  Please tell us more. 

[JWags85]

That's the key to me. Why the hell would you tell him to do that if you're gonna shoot him either way?

It's definitely a tough job, but you still don't shoot first and ask questions later.

It’s a horrible situation all around, but I watched the video and paused a few times.  When Toledo turns around, his hands are still mostly down, it honestly looks like they go up as he gets shot.  So in the heat of the moment, the officer didn’t see the gun get tossed and assumed he was turning with a gun still in hand.  As Toledo gets shot he sees the hands are empty which is why he immediately rushes to him. 

I’m not trying to justify it, but I sort of see it.

[Hards Alumni]

Amazing insight.  Please tell us more.

Ooohhhh spicy, you've typed 6 things on this board since 3/31 and they were all replies to something I typed.  I apologize for triggering you so often you don't have much else to think about! 

Rent free.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

It’s a horrible situation all around, but I watched the video and paused a few times.  When Toledo turns around, his hands are still mostly down, it honestly looks like they go up as he gets shot.  So in the heat of the moment, the officer didn’t see the gun get tossed and assumed he was turning with a gun still in hand.  As Toledo gets shot he sees the hands are empty which is why he immediately rushes to him. 

I’m not trying to justify it, but I sort of see it.

I have a higher level of expectation for police use of force than he "assumed he was turning with a gun still in his hand."

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Adding, that the gun toss was behind the fence .. so the cop (and camera) don't see the gun being tossed.  The 13 year old's arm is obscured behind the fence until it's raised.

So the officer has what, maybe .5 of a second to decide, does this guy have a gun or not?

Robocop, we need you.

So the assumption is that everyone has a gun and is going to shoot you unless you are absolutely sure you don't see it?

[Hards Alumni]

So the assumption is that everyone has a gun and is going to shoot you unless you are absolutely sure you don't see it?

"COMPLY"

"NO NOT LIKE THAT"

[Pakuni]

This man wasn't shot, or tased or even pepper sprayed.  Weird.


 MINNEAPOLIS (WCCO) — Hutchinson police say a 61-year-old man is in custody after allegedly dragging an officer with his vehicle while simultaneously striking him with a hammer following a dispute about face masks at a Menards store.

https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2021/04/14/police-man-drags-hutchinson-officer-with-car-hits-him-with-hammer-after-face-mask-dispute/

[tower912]

And Kyle Rittenhouse can run by cops carrying an AR-15 after shooting two people and not be noticed.   Hell, some whack-jobs want to build a statue of him.

[JWags85]

I have a higher level of expectation for police use of force than he "assumed he was turning with a gun still in his hand."

You're not wrong.  And again, I said it was terrible.  But "someone running with a gun and turns with his hands not visible" is different than the MacDonald shooting or lighting up someone unarmed when they reach for a wallet.

[Galway Eagle]

You're not wrong.  And again, I said it was terrible.  But "someone running with a gun and turns with his hands not visible" is different than the MacDonald shooting or lighting up someone unarmed when they reach for a wallet.

I agree with this. The officer made the wrong call in under a second. I think the officer was too much on jumpy side but compared to some of the other tragedies this one, where there actually was a gun present, doesn't warrant as much sympathy from me.

I hope they can figure out a way to charge the 22yr old as an accessory because he put the gun in a 13yr olds hand. I would like to think that if that man doesn't put the kid in that situation the officer doesn't shoot.

[Babybluejeans]

Just watched the video. Jesus. Society failed Adam Toledo.