Studs Of The Game

[WarhawkWarrior]

Our starting guards!

65 minutes
1 for 6 shooting
2 assists
3 turnovers
3 points

How could it be any worse if we developed a freshman duo for at least 20 of these minutes.  I just don't get it.

[willie warrior]

Buzz!

[GGGG]

Our starting guards!

65 minutes
1 for 6 shooting
2 assists
3 turnovers
3 points

How could it be any worse if we developed a freshman duo for at least 20 of these minutes.  I just don't get it.

The fallacy that playing players more will necessarily make them better.

[MarquetteDano]

Seeing all these posts about how Buzz is wrong in who he should play reminds me of this scene....


http://youtu.be/MH4Q8vkbV2U

[Windyplayer]

The fallacy that playing players more will necessarily make them better.

Sultan, it's time to concede. It's just time. You're digging yourself into a deeper hole with each response.

[Let's Go Warriors]

The fallacy that playing players more will necessarily make them better.

For skilled enough players there definitely is a correlation to playing time and improved play.  If you want to say it would ruin their confidence that's fine.  It can also be managed in a few minute stints on the floor and then a brief conversation with the assistant coaches.  You can easily get 3 freshmen about 15 minutes in an upper level game with 3 or 4 minute stints on the floor.  At this point Derrick does not deserve(based on performance) to just be handed 30+ minutes per game.  Not saying he shouldn't start and play about 20-25 minutes but those who suggest he should and will just be given 30+ minutes per game is a bit mindboggling.  His defense is pretty good.  Not great.  Nothing to say, Man Derrick is just all over that guy in his face and shutting him down.  Or leading the defense helping others out.  He is slightly above average on defense.  Nothing more.  He fell asleep several times yesterday forcing rotations that caused open back doors plays for bucky and at other times rotations that cause open looks for other players to get wide open shots.  Not saying that the others are not doing this as well.  Just that he is far from Dominic james or
Kraft at OSU.  His defense is just so overblown on this site ...

What we do know is that Derrick and Jake have been around for a while now and have also now logged enough playing time for us to know what they are.  Neither have done anything offensively or defensively to suggest that they are irreplaceable.  That is just a fallacy.  Freshmen definitely need to earn their playing time, no doubt.  But it has to be relative to what the players above them can produce as well.  Its not like they are sitting behind Junior or Senior Level Dominic James and Vander Blue.  Or even Mo Acker for that matter.

[connie]

As positive as I am trying to stay I had to choke down a little vomit every time Brian Anderson referred to "Marquette's 3 point shooter."

[GGGG]

Sultan, it's time to concede. It's just time. You're digging yourself into a deeper hole with each response.

Concede what?  Buzz is playing the players he believes gives Marquette the best chance to win games.  We had no better chance of winning with the freshmen playing more, and frankly it could have been a lot worse.

They did NOTHING yesterday.

[GGGG]

For skilled enough players there definitely is a correlation to playing time and improved play.

Prove it.  (Let me help....you can't...because that is hardly a universal truth.)

[Let's Go Warriors]

Prove it.  (Let me help....you can't...because that is hardly a universal truth.)

Prove that it isn't true.  You cant....  Its not a universal truth.  But MOST players get better rather than worse  as their careers go on.  IE get more playing time and experience.  Therefore the correlation... 

[🏀]

Seeing all these posts about how Buzz is wrong in who he should play reminds me of this scene....


http://youtu.be/MH4Q8vkbV2U

Well done and John Dawson is apparently Jimmy Chitwood.

[GGGG]

Prove that it isn't true.  You cant....  Its not a universal truth.  But MOST players get better rather than worse  as their careers go on.  IE get more playing time and experience.  Therefore the correlation...  

Most players get better as time goes on no doubt.  But that isn't necessarily because they play more in live games.  It's also because they practice more, get more physically and emotionally mature, understand what is expected of them.

The idea that you should play JJJ, etc. more because it will automatically pay dividends down the line is fool's gold.  It *might*...it might not...it may not make a difference at all.

[Let's Go Warriors]

Most players get better as time goes on no doubt.  But that isn't necessarily because they play more in live games.  It's also because they practice more, get more physically and emotionally mature, understand what is expected of them.

The idea that you should play JJJ, etc. more because it will automatically pay dividends down the line is fool's gold.  It *might*...it might not...it may not make a difference at all.

You are correct.  It MAY not.  It also very well could. 

[jesmu84]

Our starting guards!

65 minutes
1 for 6 shooting
2 assists
3 turnovers
3 points

How could it be any worse if we developed a freshman duo for at least 20 of these minutes.  I just don't get it.

How could it get worse? If Dawson and JJJ are terrible on defense and allow many more points than Derrick and Jake allowed. That's how.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Playing guys who are not ready to play can ruin them permanently. In fact, it's quite common.

[THEbig0]

Most players get better as time goes on no doubt.  But that isn't necessarily because they play more in live games.  It's also because they practice more, get more physically and emotionally mature, understand what is expected of them.

The idea that you should play JJJ, etc. more because it will automatically pay dividends down the line is fool's gold.  It *might*...it might not...it may not make a difference at all.

I would say that the primary reason players get better with time is live game experience. Specifically being in the game, making mistakes and watching film of your mistakes to learn. Practice just isnt the same as you are always against the same players. Emotional maturity would be a distant second, and physical maturity - except in football - probably has the least to do with it. It isnt the same for everyone, but my opinion is based on my experience playing sports through college. So while I dont think the growth would be huge during the season necssarily, playing our freshman more now I think would pay much more down the line as theyd get that early learning sooner. If it isnt too much of a falloff from the current high minute players, I cant see a huge reason not to play them more. I LOVE Buzz and always will, probably my favorite coach of all time, but it does seem a bit like eccentric stubborness. He could at least tell Jake to shoot more. Id be much happpier with him taking and missing a few threes than not looking to shoot at all. I do think he is a good shooter, but he needs tp actually shoot more!

[brewcity77]

This thread is pretty much "I know you are!" followed by "No, you are!". All we need is a "neener neener" to make it complete.

[bilsu]

I think the team needs to bet on winning the Big East tournament for an NCAA bid. Given that you need to focus on having the best team in March, which means starting JJJ and Burton now. You start Anderson and Thomas only, if you are focusing on winning the next game.

[The Equalizer]

Playing guys who are not ready to play can ruin them permanently. In fact, it's quite common.

You mean like O'Neill permanently ruined Key, McIlvaine and Logtermann because he had to play them big minutes their freshman season before they were ready?

Or like Tony Smith was permanaently ruined because Dukiet had to play him extensively before he was ready?

Or like Wesley Matthews, Dominic James and Jerel McNeal were permanetly ruined because they had to log big minutes as freshmen?

I'm struggling to come up with a single one that actually was ruined permanetly because they played as freshman.

[KenoshaWarrior]

I think the team needs to bet on winning the Big East tournament for an NCAA bid. Given that you need to focus on having the best team in March, which means starting JJJ and Burton now. You start Anderson and Thomas only, if you are focusing on winning the next game.

I heard you are going to take the Marquette coaching job and Buzz is going step down and take a team consultant. 
If Marquette makes 3 more baskets we are saying how smart Buzz is and that the process is great.  Because we missed those 3 baskets he somehow is stupid, back country, and lost his touch.   Funny what happens when a round ball fails too fall through a hoop.

[NersEllenson]

You mean like O'Neill permanently ruined Key, McIlvaine and Logtermann because he had to play them big minutes their freshman season before they were ready?

Or like Tony Smith was permanaently ruined because Dukiet had to play him extensively before he was ready?

Or like Wesley Matthews, Dominic James and Jerel McNeal were permanetly ruined because they had to log big minutes as freshmen?

I'm struggling to come up with a single one that actually was ruined permanetly because they played as freshman.

Wow....I actually agree with Equalizer!  Feel the exact same way.  It's one thing to play the vets if they are giving you a serviceable performance - but what Derrick and Jake have produced thus far - I'd suspect you couldn't find another Top 100 team that has their starting backcourt and leaders in minutes played - producing less.  Oh, but they are solid defensively, yet never create any steals.  Hell, I'd love to just get good old "deflections!"  They are disruptive on no way, shape or form.

[real chili 83]

Concede what?  Buzz is playing the players he believes gives Marquette the best chance to win games.  We had no better chance of winning with the freshmen playing more, and frankly it could have been a lot worse.

They did NOTHING yesterday.

They need to learn to play D.  That was tough watching Burton's lapses.

[Les Nessman]

Who would win game of 1 on 1 between Jake Thomas and Brian Barone?

[chapman]

Oh, but they are solid defensively, yet never create any steals.  Hell, I'd love to just get good old "deflections!"  They are disruptive on no way, shape or form.

This is underestimated.  Will they miss their man and get burned sometimes?  Sure.  But Burton leads the team with 10 steals and is third in blocks - per minute the best on the team in both categories.  JaJuan has one less steal than Jake in 105 less minutes - and has taken a couple back for slams.  The "solid" defense involves as little true playmaking as the "caretaker" offense.

[NersEllenson]

This is underestimated.  Will they miss their man and get burned sometimes?  Sure.  But Burton leads the team with 10 steals and is third in blocks - per minute the best on the team in both categories.  JaJuan has one less steal than Jake in 105 less minutes - and has taken a couple back for slams.  The "solid" defense involves as little true playmaking as the "caretaker" offense.

How dare you interject statistics into this argument that disprove the Derrick and Jake are the best options at this time for getting major minutes due to their "defensive prowess" that never results in any steals or transition baskets.

Can't say it better:  The "solid" defense involves as little true playmaking as the "caretaker" offense.