Softest bubble in a decade?

[79Warrior]

  Well, I'd love to know the empirical data Palm cites to make this assertion.  It seems purely subjective and conjecture at best. What is true in college basketball is there is more parity than ever before, and due to early entry candidates, some mid-majors who assemble modest talent that stays 4-years in college basketball, has a chance to compete on a higher level against the more marquee traditional basketball powers who have 1,2 or 3 and done players.  I am quite confident that as technology and training evolves athletes are only getting bigger, stronger, faster and more skilled - to where the teams of 2010 are stronger, and better than those of 2005.  Go back and watch old NCAA or NBA games on ESPN Classic - the players seem to be in slow motion, and the defense almost non-existent.

Are you kidding? The frigging dude lives college basketball.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Then all of the Buzz viagra takers will LOVE talking about how strong/weak the bubble is...

Who is a Buzz "viagra taker?" Just so I'm clear, are you claiming those of us who think it's great that he's got us on the doorstep of an NCAA birth despite being crippled by graduation and injury have erections? Is that what you're saying?

Are Marquette fans not supposed to be happy about a possible NCAA birth? And can they be happy with out being (artificially) aroused?

[The Pickle]

I'm beginning to think the only way some people will be happy with Marquette basketball is if we go undefeated and win a national championship...

[Lennys Tap]

I spoke to Jerry Palm today of CollegeRPI.   I asked him if he thought this was the softest bubble in a decade with the ACC and Pac Ten so down, the Big Ten not up to pre-season expectations, etc.

His response..."I'd agree.  I put nine teams in Monday’s bracket that aren’t really tournament quality.  That’s a pretty high number for this late in the season"

He went on to say that certain pockets are down but there are conferences like the Big 12 that are having fine seasons.


We picked a very good year to have a "rebuilding" year.  Timing is everything.   

If college basketball is as bad as you say it is this year what does that say about Roy Williams as a coach? Seven (7) McDonald's All Americans and he can't beat ANYBODY. Also renders your boy's very slight improvement at IU (from one of the worst of all time to one of the worst this year) meaningless.

[______]

That's prefect because MU needed a soft bubble in this transition year. 

[HoopsMalone]

By the same logic, 2003 had some great teams and produced some US Olympians and we still made the Final Four.  The 2003 MU team would have won the whole thing in a lot of other years.  Wade was hot and Diener and Novak really improved by the tournament.  We were hot enough in March to have won it in many years.  They ran into a team stacked with seniors and a hall of fame coach who said that game was the best he has ever coached.  There was also an All-NBA player waiting in the championship had we won.  It was a tough year.  Chicos is right, timing is important.  

It's like in the NBA,  Patrick Ewing, Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, and Reggie Miller are great players, but they played at the same time as when Pippen and Jordan were on the same team.  Had they hit their primes in 2001, they would have had that elusive ring.  

Context counts, but you can only judge the team by how they play in the situation presented to them.  The 2003 team was a Final Four team given their context and Lazar's squad this year is a 9-12 seed or an NIT favorite.  

[MUBurrow]

Who is a Buzz "viagra taker?" Just so I'm clear, are you claiming those of us who think it's great that he's got us on the doorstep of an NCAA birth despite being crippled by graduation and injury have erections? Is that what you're saying?

Are Marquette fans not supposed to be happy about a possible NCAA birth? And can they be happy with out being (artificially) aroused?

What I'm saying is that people are entirely losing perspective on this season.  Since when did pointing out the weakness of the overall pool belittle the team's accomplishments? This has become some sort of idealistic circle jerk where any sort of reference to the greater landscape in which Marquette's season exists is immediately attacked and belittled as somehow unsupportive.  Of course everyone is happy with this season, and glad that MU is surpassing expectations.  However the reality check that this might not entirely rest on the shoulders of Buzz Williams' George Washington-esque leadership does not imply that he is a bad coach or that whoever is proffering such a suggestion is a disloyal fan with ulterior motives.

And to reiterate the greater implication of getting so carried away is something that I can't stress enough.  When the greater field of college basketball rebounds next year, and MU finds itself in the same (or worse) position its in now, the people storming the quad with torches and pitchforks in Buzz's name will be ironically the most outraged.  All that is being pointed out here is that MU's season doesn't exist in a vacuum.

[The Pickle]

By the same logic, 2003 had some great teams and produced some US Olympians and we still made the Final Four.  The 2003 MU team would have won the whole thing in a lot of other years.  Wade was hot and Diener and Novak really improved by the tournament.  We were hot enough in March to have won it in many years.  They ran into a team stacked with seniors and a hall of fame coach who said that game was the best he has ever coached.  There was also an All-NBA player waiting in the championship had we won.  It was a tough year.  Chicos is right, timing is important.  

It's like in the NBA,  Patrick Ewing, Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, and Reggie Miller are great players, but they played at the same time as when Pippen and Jordan were on the same team.  Had they hit their primes in 2001, they would have had that elusive ring.  

Context counts, but you can only judge the team by how they play in the situation presented to them.  The 2003 team was a Final Four team given their context and Lazar's squad this year is a 9-12 seed or an NIT favorite.  

Hindsight is 20/20.  I doubt anyone predicted Marquette would be a Final Four team in 2003...

[4everwarriors]

Obviously the bubble isn't quite soft enough to let IU in. BTW, had Crean not left the cupboard so bare, the soft bubble wouldn't even be a topic of discussion.

[Lennys Tap]

I spoke to Jerry Palm today of CollegeRPI.   I asked him if he thought this was the softest bubble in a decade with the ACC and Pac Ten so down, the Big Ten not up to pre-season expectations, etc.

His response..."I'd agree.  I put nine teams in Monday’s bracket that aren’t really tournament quality.  That’s a pretty high number for this late in the season"

He went on to say that certain pockets are down but there are conferences like the Big 12 that are having fine seasons.


We picked a very good year to have a "rebuilding" year.  Timing is everything.   

While we're on the subject of your, 84's and 79's personal college guru, what do you make of the fact that Ol' Jerry has five (5) teams we have played rated higher than Wisconsin? The list includes WVU (14 spots above the Badgers), a team you claim would have NO CHANCE against Wisco. Also noticed that DePaul (worse loss in MU history?) is slotted a full THIRTY-ONE spots above your beloved Hapless Hoosiers. Interesting.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Are you kidding? The frigging dude lives college basketball.

Yup, and he gets paid for it.

http://bleacherreport.com/users/35898-jerry-palm




I am the owner and operator of CollegeRPI.com and CollegeBCS.com. I have done some freelance writing for USA Today, CSTV and the Sporting News, and do numerous radio and television appearances during the college football and basketball seasons. Most recently, I have been a bracket analyst for the Big Ten Network and a BCS analyst for Fox Sports.




As he says in his Feb 21st article, one of the weakest at-large fields he can ever remember.  http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/collegebasketball-projecting-the-field

[Pakuni]

What I'm saying is that people are entirely losing perspective on this season.  Since when did pointing out the weakness of the overall pool belittle the team's accomplishments? This has become some sort of idealistic circle jerk where any sort of reference to the greater landscape in which Marquette's season exists is immediately attacked and belittled as somehow unsupportive.  Of course everyone is happy with this season, and glad that MU is surpassing expectations.  However the reality check that this might not entirely rest on the shoulders of Buzz Williams' George Washington-esque leadership does not imply that he is a bad coach or that whoever is proffering such a suggestion is a disloyal fan with ulterior motives.

And to reiterate the greater implication of getting so carried away is something that I can't stress enough.  When the greater field of college basketball rebounds next year, and MU finds itself in the same (or worse) position its in now, the people storming the quad with torches and pitchforks in Buzz's name will be ironically the most outraged.  All that is being pointed out here is that MU's season doesn't exist in a vacuum.

Viagra ... circle jerk ... hmmm.

It's funny ... nobody seemed to being criticizing/questioning the weakness of the overall pool back when MU was projected as a 12th place squad that might sneak its way into the NIT. In fact, a certain thread starter claimed that it would be darn near miraculous for this team to win 10 Big East games.
It's only now that they seem NCAA-bound that the rest of college basketball apparently sucks. Funny how that works.

[dw3dw3dw3]

You could argue that through combined winning percentage of tourney teams and t may turn out to be true, however the next level of teams would statistically have to be better if that was the case. In that case it is still the same achievement to be in the top 10% of teams or whatever the number is. To say look at this team vs this team has nothing to do with the overall quality of basketball.

[4everwarriors]

Viagra ... circle jerk ... hmmm.

It's funny ... nobody seemed to being criticizing/questioning the weakness of the overall pool back when MU was projected as a 12th place squad that might sneak its way into the NIT. In fact, a certain thread starter claimed that it would be darn near miraculous for this team to win 10 Big East games.
It's only now that they seem NCAA-bound that the rest of college basketball apparently sucks. Funny how that works.

Go figure 

[Lennys Tap]

What I'm saying is that people are entirely losing perspective on this season.  Since when did pointing out the weakness of the overall pool belittle the team's accomplishments? This has become some sort of idealistic circle jerk where any sort of reference to the greater landscape in which Marquette's season exists is immediately attacked and belittled as somehow unsupportive.  Of course everyone is happy with this season, and glad that MU is surpassing expectations.  However the reality check that this might not entirely rest on the shoulders of Buzz Williams' George Washington-esque leadership does not imply that he is a bad coach or that whoever is proffering such a suggestion is a disloyal fan with ulterior motives.

And to reiterate the greater implication of getting so carried away is something that I can't stress enough.  When the greater field of college basketball rebounds next year, and MU finds itself in the same (or worse) position its in now, the people storming the quad with torches and pitchforks in Buzz's name will be ironically the most outraged.  All that is being pointed out here is that MU's season doesn't exist in a vacuum.

I don't know how long you've been reading these boards but Chicos has been belittling Buzz since he was hired. Last year all he had to do was roll the ball out on the court, this year college basketball sucks and next year it will be something else. Trust me on this.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Viagra ... circle jerk ... hmmm.

It's funny ... nobody seemed to being criticizing/questioning the weakness of the overall pool back when MU was projected as a 12th place squad that might sneak its way into the NIT. In fact, a certain thread starter claimed that it would be darn near miraculous for this team to win 10 Big East games.
It's only now that they seem NCAA-bound that the rest of college basketball apparently sucks. Funny how that works.

I don't think anyone knew that North Carolina and the ACC were going to be this bad.  UNC was top 10 preseason.  Or UCLA and the Pac Ten would be this bad.  So back when MU was picked 12th by the "experts", the "experts" were also saying UNC was great, the Pac Ten was good, the ACC was good, etc.

Look at the Preseason Poll below.  North Carolina 4th and 6th.  UCONN 12th and 14th.  Washington 13th and 14th. Michigan 15th in both polls.  Oklahoma 16th and 17th.  California 12th and 13th.  Louisville 19th and 23rd.  Minnesota 18th and 25th.  UCLA 29th. 

None of these teams even ranked now and all of them in deep crap with perhaps Louisville being the exception...barely.

The power conferences have really crapped themselves this year which is why the bubble is so soft.  That's why we have Richmond, UTEP, Northern Iowa, BYU, Butler, Temple, New Mexico all ranked right now. 



http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/rankings?seasonYear=2010&weekNumber=1&seasonType=2

[ChicosBailBonds]

I don't know how long you've been reading these boards but Chicos has been belittling Buzz since he was hired. Last year all he had to do was roll the ball out on the court, this year college basketball sucks and next year it will be something else. Trust me on this.

Sigh




Yes, just belittling him at every turn!  Here we go again, selective reading on Lenny's part 24/7.  Even when presented with experts having the same viewpoint, I guess they are "belittling" Buzz as well.  Sigh.  Black helicopters over there, House?  Tell the truth about the situation and it's belittling.  Unreal.

[Pakuni]

I don't think anyone knew that North Carolina and the ACC were going to be this bad.  UNC was top 10 preseason.  Or UCLA and the Pac Ten would be this bad.  So back when MU was picked 12th by the "experts", the "experts" were also saying UNC was great, the Pac Ten was good, the ACC was good, etc.

Look at the Preseason Poll below.  North Carolina 4th and 6th.  UCONN 12th and 14th.  Washington 13th and 14th. Michigan 15th in both polls.  Oklahoma 16th and 17th.  California 12th and 13th.  Louisville 19th and 23rd.  Minnesota 18th and 25th.  UCLA 29th. 

What does the badness of the Pac 10 or ACC have to do with where MU finishes in the Big East? You lost me there.

Regardless, what you state is really no different from most years, and it's certainly not proof of a bad year or a soft bubble.
 
Last year, Notre Dame, Tennessee, Miami, Georgetown, Florida, Davidson, USC and Wisconsin all started in the preseason top 25 (top 21, to be exact) and none of them were there at season's end.

The year before, Indiana, Oregon, Texas A&M, Arizona, USC, Arkansas, Kentucky, Southern Illinois and NC State were pre-season top 25 teams who failed to appear in the final top 25.

The year before that, LSU, Arizona, Alabama, Duke, Boston College, Washington, UConn, Creighton, Syracuse, Kentucky, Georgia Tech and Nevada were top 25 preseason, not in the top 25 at season's end. Heck, that's nearly half the poll. Must have been the weakest season ever.

Shall I continue? I suspect you get the drift. The lack of accuracy by those who vote in these polls is hardly proof ro against the strength of a college basketball field. If anything, it's merely proof of how bad these experts are at knowing who will and will not be good before the games are played.

[MUBurrow]

i will agree that the accuracy of preseason polls do not tell the whole story, but the abysmal records of some conferences do.  the second team in the acc standings is still considered a bubble team.  the pac 10 will get one bid barring conf. tourney madness.  meanwhile conferences like the A-10 are skyrocketing. hell, the ivy league is trying to sneak a team into a single digit seed.  this reflects the overall quality of the teams.  the 2nd team in the A-10 could not hold the floor with the 5th team in the pac 10 most years.  however this year, the inverse is true.  when the best players are not on the best teams, that reflects a weaker overall field, not a great coaching job by each and every overachieving team.

[MUBasketball]

What does the badness of the Pac 10 or ACC have to do with where MU finishes in the Big East? You lost me there.

Regardless, what you state is really no different from most years, and it's certainly not proof of a bad year or a soft bubble.
 
Last year, Notre Dame, Tennessee, Miami, Georgetown, Florida, Davidson, USC and Wisconsin all started in the preseason top 25 (top 21, to be exact) and none of them were there at season's end.

The year before, Indiana, Oregon, Texas A&M, Arizona, USC, Arkansas, Kentucky, Southern Illinois and NC State were pre-season top 25 teams who failed to appear in the final top 25.

The year before that, LSU, Arizona, Alabama, Duke, Boston College, Washington, UConn, Creighton, Syracuse, Kentucky, Georgia Tech and Nevada were top 25 preseason, not in the top 25 at season's end. Heck, that's nearly half the poll. Must have been the weakest season ever.

Shall I continue? I suspect you get the drift. The lack of accuracy by those who vote in these polls is hardly proof ro against the strength of a college basketball field. If anything, it's merely proof of how bad these experts are at knowing who will and will not be good before the games are played.

Outstanding post...you beat me to it on that first point, I have no clue either why UNC or UCLA having sub-par years has anything to do with MU's conference performance.

"Aw Jeez, not this sh*t again", huh? Maybe you bring it on yourself?

Again I repeat, coming into the year, I clearly remember you saying you would fall out of your chair if Buzz somehow led this squad to the NCAA Tournament. Fast forward a few months...MU has 4 games to go in the regular season, and is projected to be dancing in the Tournament. Great news, right? Your reaction? A) Start a few different threads about how weak college basketball is this year, B) Hype up how Buzz is winning with Tom Crean's players (the same players were on this team at the beginning of the year, and you said they basically had no shot at the tournament), and C) continue to push back your timeframe for judging Buzz despite the fact he is within reach of accomplishing a goal we would have all assumed unreachable in October.

I can see you before bed, clenching an IU media guide, tearing up reading his Twitter updates, clicking your heels together saying "There's no coach like Crean...there' no coach like Crean".....

[Lennys Tap]

Sigh




Yes, just belittling him at every turn!  Here we go again, selective reading on Lenny's part 24/7.  Even when presented with experts having the same viewpoint, I guess they are "belittling" Buzz as well.  Sigh.  Black helicopters over there, House?  Tell the truth about the situation and it's belittling.  Unreal.

Look Jamie, I was the 7th or 8th guy to point out what you were/are about in this thread. I'm as far removed from a conspiracy freak as anyone you'll ever meet and I'll venture to guess so are Pakuni, Ready2fly, Ners and the scores of others on this board that see through the bs. Sigh all you want. LOL while your at it. But someone who's so misunderstood as often as you are might want to think a little about why that is.

[MUEng92]

I have started and stopped reading this thread 2-3 times in the last couple hours.  I wasn't going to post anything but I can't help it.  Some of you guys absolutely suck the life out of something that is supposed to fun.  I used to think of this board as a place to read about something I love, MU basketball.  For the last three weeks, more often that not, I have found myself being pissed off as I close my browser after reading this board.  How is that possible considering the fact that that time period coincides with a great stretch of basketball most people around here didn't think we would see this year.

I swear, sometimes I think my nine year old is more mature that a good portion of the posters on this board.  Some of you act like a bunch of little girls.

Uuuuggggghhhh, another visit to MUScoop being pissed as I close my browser!

[PGsHeroes32]

Win. Thats all that we need to do.

[Boozemon Barro]

Lol bust out the e-pitchforks and e-torches! You better run chicos, they are coming to get you.

[mugrad99]

and play a few more rounds of sink the Bismarck.....

What does soft bubble mean. Tom O'connor, the committee chair, has no idea what it means?  Does it mean parity? or bad teams? fighting for those last 4 spots?

I'm in the camp that says the term soft bubble is such a stupid term. You cant compare teams from one year to another with any sort of hard number (sorry stats geeks).