Tennis

[MuggsyB]

A little more on Shelton from The Athletic: He was only 8-20 as a pro headed into the U.S. Open, so it's not as if he was an immediate star after leaving college, where his father was his coach.

He's quite a showman. I enjoyed how he played to the crowd, though I wonder whether he also did so when he was getting his butt kicked earlier in the year.

Whether he goes on to be the long-awaited next U.S. superstar or he's a one-hit wonder (or more likely something in between those extremes), he's a ton of fun to watch. His match against Djokovic should be fascinating because of the many contrasts: youth vs. experience; athleticism vs. precision; 150 mph serve vs. the best service-return game ever; etc.

One skill you can't teach is tattooing the ball with no regard for its life.  He's also a terrific athlete.  I'm not sure he's the next superstar but on a fast court he can inflict quite a bit of damage.  Harnessing his power may be a bit tricky when he faces the top players.  I'm hoping he improves his consistency off the ground. 

[shoothoops]

A little more on Shelton from The Athletic: He was only 8-20 as a pro headed into the U.S. Open, so it's not as if he was an immediate star after leaving college, where his father was his coach.

He's quite a showman. I enjoyed how he played to the crowd, though I wonder whether he also did so when he was getting his butt kicked earlier in the year.

Whether he goes on to be the long-awaited next U.S. superstar or he's a one-hit wonder (or more likely something in between those extremes), he's a ton of fun to watch. His match against Djokovic should be fascinating because of the many contrasts: youth vs. experience; athleticism vs. precision; 150 mph serve vs. the best service-return game ever; etc.

Who wrote that piece?

A big part of Ben’s story is his meteoric rise in a short amount of time.

This is his first full season as a pro. The list of players to go from college tennis, to 165 ranking to top 20 ranking within a year is very, very short. Part of the story is just how fast he is doing so well. Meteoric would be a word I and many others would use. He was recently deciding between finishing a Finance degree and playing pro tennis.

He will be a very good player for a long time. He isn’t a flash in the pan. Each level of tennis has a massive adjustment to it. Whether that is juniors to pro or Challengers and ITF to ATP/WTA and within each.

Strange comments about Shelton’s celebrating too.



https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/tracy-austin-on-ben-shelton-s-meteoric-rise

Meteoric rise:

https://www.wearecollegetennis.com/2022/12/19/top-stories-2022-ben-shelton/

[BM1090]

His record as a pro this year was poor, but I do agree that he's going to be a star. He has the highest ceiling of any current American pro on the men's side, IMO.

That said, I wanted Tiafoe to advance. I'm not sure Shelton will have the composure to compete with Djokovic.

[shoothoops]

His record as a pro this year was poor, but I do agree that he's going to be a star. He has the highest ceiling of any current American pro on the men's side, IMO.

That said, I wanted Tiafoe to advance. I'm not sure Shelton will have the composure to compete with Djokovic.

If it were his 5th year on tour that may mean something. It's his 1st. I don't think people understand the adustment periods to each level.

Example: Top 10 player Frances Tiafoe's tour level record by year:

7-18
28-27
23-27
9-11
33-24
35-25
37-15

Different players will adapt and adjust more quickly than others. And some won't make it at all.

Ben is right where he needs to be at this time.

[MuggsyB]

If it were his 5th year on tour that may mean something. It's his 1st. I don't think people understand the adustment periods to each level.

Example: Top 10 player Frances Tiafoe's tour level record by year:

7-18
28-27
23-27
9-11
33-24
35-25
37-15

Different players will adapt and adjust more quickly than others. And some won't make it at all.

Ben is right where he needs to be at this time.

The fact is you, nor anyone else, has any idea if he's going to be a star for years to come.  These things are fluid and there are no certainties.  Now obviously he has tremendous potential but as we have seen from many players over the years, including gs winners, nothing is guaranteed. 

[shoothoops]

The fact is you, nor anyone else, has any idea if he's going to be a star for years to come.  These things are fluid and there are no certainties.  Now obviously he has tremendous potential but as we have seen from many players over the years, including gs winners, nothing is guaranteed.

Did you even read my posts? I literally just posted an example of how difficult it is to adjust to tour level. I could post examples for days.
Should I post all of the times you gave up on Coco Gauff the paat few years or nah? Even when others said she was doing just fine. They added that success is ofren not linear.

I didn't say whether or not Ben would be a star. I did say he would be a very good player, and that he is doing very well, way better this soom than anyone could have imagined. I also added thst he's right where he needs to be. The posts are just above if you need to read them again.

You know another nice thing about Ben is he is quick to point out when he gets outplayed by a better player that day. No caveats.

[MuggsyB]

Did you even read my posts? I literally just posted an example of how difficult it is to adjust to tour level. I could post examples for days.
Should I post all of the times you gave up on Coco Gauff the paat few years or nah? Even when others said she was doing just fine. They added that success is ofren not linear.

I didn't say whether or not Ben would be a star. I did say he would be a very good player, and that he is doing very well, way better this soom than anyone could have imagined. I also added thst he's right where he needs to be. The posts are just above if you need to read them again.

You know another nice thing about Ben is he is quick to point out when he gets outplayed by a better player that day. No caveats.

My apologies,
I meant to respond to another post. 

[MU82]

Who wrote that piece?

A big part of Ben’s story is his meteoric rise in a short amount of time.

This is his first full season as a pro. The list of players to go from college tennis, to 165 ranking to top 20 ranking within a year is very, very short. Part of the story is just how fast he is doing so well. Meteoric would be a word I and many others would use. He was recently deciding between finishing a Finance degree and playing pro tennis.

He will be a very good player for a long time. He isn’t a flash in the pan. Each level of tennis has a massive adjustment to it. Whether that is juniors to pro or Challengers and ITF to ATP/WTA and within each.

It was in The Athletic's sports digest for the day.

Nobody said Shelton didn't have a meteoric rise. Nobody said he can't or wouldn't become a very good player. Nobody said he would be a flash in the pan. Nobody said there wasn't a massive adjustment.

Not sure why you felt the need, but you've done a fine job creating numerous strawmen.

I like watching Shelton play tennis, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him have a fine career. Heck, he's already equaled John Isner's career total of grand slam semifinal appearances and exceeded Isner's career total of U.S. Open semifinal appearances, so there's that.

[lawdog77]

. Heck, he's already equaled John Isner's career total of grand slam semifinal appearances and exceeded Isner's career total of U.S. Open semifinal appearances, so there's that.

[shoothoops]

It was in The Athletic's sports digest for the day.

Nobody said Shelton didn't have a meteoric rise. Nobody said he can't or wouldn't become a very good player. Nobody said he would be a flash in the pan. Nobody said there wasn't a massive adjustment.

Not sure why you felt the need, but you've done a fine job creating numerous strawmen.

I like watching Shelton play tennis, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him have a fine career. Heck, he's already equaled John Isner's career total of grand slam semifinal appearances and exceeded Isner's career total of U.S. Open semifinal appearances, so there's that.

The very first line said that it was not as if Shelton was an immediate star since he left college. The facts are the exact opposite of that.

[MU82]

So it's your contention that losing his first pro match in straight sets to James Duckworth = immediate star? Okey dokey then.

[MuggsyB]

I will say that a Djoker/Alcaraz Final will be must see TV.  I wouldn't count Medvy out but wow is this kid impressive. 

[shoothoops]

So it's your contention that losing his first pro match in straight sets to James Duckworth = immediate star? Okey dokey then.

Actually his first ATP level match came against Ramkumar Ramanathan. But I’m not surprised that you didn’t know that.

Oh and yes.

13-17.

That was Roger Federer’s record his first year on tour.

But keep trying.

[MuggsyB]

Actually his first ATP level match came against Ramkumar Ramanathan. But I’m not surprised that you didn’t know that.

Oh and yes.

13-17.

That was Roger Federer’s record his first year on tour.

But keep trying.

Why don't you go through every person's record their first year on tour since Bill Tilden so we can figure out where Shelton will be a year, two years, and three years from now? 

[MU82]

Actually his first ATP level match came against Ramkumar Ramanathan. But I’m not surprised that you didn’t know that.

Oh and yes.

13-17.

That was Roger Federer’s record his first year on tour.

But keep trying.

Thanks for the correction. I had looked only at 2023 results. But please be real - you only "knew that" because you looked it up. Even a Tennis Rain Man like you doesn't know every match played by every pro in tennis history.

Roger Federer's record has nothing to do with anybody but Roger Federer.

Keep looking for strawmen.

[shoothoops]

Why don't you go through every person's record their first year on tour since Bill Tilden so we can figure out where Shelton will be a year, two years, and three years from now?

Because that isn't how it works.

[shoothoops]

Thanks for the correction. I had looked only at 2023 results. But please be real - you only "knew that" because you looked it up. Even a Tennis Rain Man like you doesn't know every match played by every pro in tennis history.

Roger Federer's record has nothing to do with anybody but Roger Federer.

Keep looking for strawmen.

You posted a small piece of an article without the author's name that said it wasn't as though Ben Shelton was an immediate star since leaving college to play professional tennis. I asked so I could read the rest of the piece myself. The part you included wasn't true.

It matters because Ben's story or narrative is the exact opposite of that. So it seemed like an odd thing for an author to say. Clearly the author of that piece doesn't seem to know the general standard of immediate success in professional tennis.

The general frequent thought is that his rise has been meteoric. That is defined as "very rapid" by Dictionary dot com.

He left college a year ago. One year later, he's the youngest American US Open Men's semifinalist, since Michael Chang in 1992. His year end ranking has gone from 573 in 2021 to 96 in 2022 to 19 and counting as 2023 is his first full professional season. And, that season isn't yet complete. He's also ranked 17th in the world in the 2023 points race. He's 20 years old. That's immediate in even the strictest definitions of the term by anyone in tennis.

Instead of saying yes that part of The Athletic piece is incorrect and moving on, you have since desperately tried to play gotcha out of self manufactured spite.

[MU82]

Cool.

Define "immediate" any way you need to in order to create more strawmen.

[shoothoops]

Cool.

Define "immediate" any way you need to in order to create more strawmen.

Lol. Your own manufactured spite keeps making it worse for you.

How so?

I was wondering why you didn’t name the author or post the link to the article for more context. Well you are in luck. I happen to be a long time The Athletic subscriber. So I looked up the article myself.


1)The author of the piece, Chris Branch, didn’t say what you initially posted. You added that to what you copied and pasted.

2)Therefore, instead of me saying the author is incorrect. I am now saying that what you added to the piece is incorrect.

Instead of saying all of that, you doubled and tripled down instead.

I brought receipts too:

https://theathletic.com/4837134/2023/09/06/ben-shelton-us-open-the-pulse/?source=user_shared_article

https://theathletic.com/4837134/2023/09/06/ben-shelton-us-open-the-pulse/?source=user_shared_article

[MU82]

Sigh. The part I took from info in The Athletic was in the paragraph in which I mentioned The Athletic:

A little more on Shelton from The Athletic: He was only 8-20 as a pro headed into the U.S. Open, so it's not as if he was an immediate star after leaving college, where his father was his coach.

The rest were my observations, which I thought was pretty clear:

He's quite a showman. I enjoyed how he played to the crowd, though I wonder whether he also did so when he was getting his butt kicked earlier in the year.

Whether he goes on to be the long-awaited next U.S. superstar or he's a one-hit wonder (or more likely something in between those extremes), he's a ton of fun to watch. His match against Djokovic should be fascinating because of the many contrasts: youth vs. experience; athleticism vs. precision; 150 mph serve vs. the best service-return game ever; etc.

And none of that was exactly controversial.

But you go on being outraged, inventing strawmen, and showing the rest of us that you are the world's foremost tennis authority.

I am curious about one thing, though:

How many times before this tournament started did you mention Ben Shelton on Scoop?

[shoothoops]

In 2021 Ben Shelton won the deciding match to help the University of Florida win the NCAA Title.

In 2022, Ben won the NCAA Singles Title.

He has since reached 2 ATP Challenger Finals, and 2 semifinals.

This week he has won his first ATP 1000 match, and he had his first win over a top 100 player, moving into the World Top 200. And now, he has added a win over the 5th ranked player in the World.

Ben, 19, is the son of former tour player Bryan, who has long been the Women’s coach at Georgia Tech and most recently, the Men’s coach at Florida.

Free Ben Shelton.

[shoothoops]

Joe Salisbury and Rajeev Ram are now 1 win away from being the first Men’s Doubles team to win the United States Open 3 times in a row since…

1912-1914.

[21Jumpstreet]

Deep breath Coco

[LloydsLegs]

Weird interruption - and way of handling.  Will be interesting to hear the explanation. 

[MuggsyB]

Weird interruption - and way of handling.  Will be interesting to hear the explanation.

I just got home from work.  WTH is going on?  Ty.