Tennis

[shoothoops]

And Borna Coric says move over. More turning back the clock. Wow.

Not ranked within the top 150, Coric gets 4 top 10 seeded wins, and takes the title in Cincinnati. The former top 12 player will move to the top 30 (29) and be seeded at the United States Open.

Two great stories.

[lawdog77]

Rafa's the men's GOAT, as everyone knows.

Interesting comparison here:
https://www.tennismajors.com/atp/nadal-vs-djokovic-goat-head-to-head-stats-all-you-need-to-know-about-the-rivalry-81292.html

[MU82]

Interesting comparison here:
https://www.tennismajors.com/atp/nadal-vs-djokovic-goat-head-to-head-stats-all-you-need-to-know-about-the-rivalry-81292.html

Really interesting stuff, lawdog. Thanks for posting.

We've gotten to witness the 3 best tennis players ever, all in their primes, all at the same time. I can't think of anything else like that in the history of individual sports. It would be like Tiger, Nicklaus and Hogan all being in their primes at the same time.

One could look at each man's record and place him #1. Rafa owning the most grand slam titles, combined with him having a winning record against both Djokovic and Federer in slams, gives Rafa a slight edge IMHO. But of course, the story's not finished yet.

 

[MuggsyB]

Really interesting stuff, lawdog. Thanks for posting.

We've gotten to witness the 3 best tennis players ever, all in their primes, all at the same time. I can't think of anything else like that in the history of individual sports. It would be like Tiger, Nicklaus and Hogan all being in their primes at the same time.

One could look at each man's record and place him #1. Rafa owning the most grand slam titles, combined with him having a winning record against both Djokovic and Federer in slams, gives Rafa a slight edge IMHO. But of course, the story's not finished yet.

Wrong.  The story is finished because I said it's finished.  Rafa = 🐐



In all seriousness we' have been absolutely privileged to essentially watch all three guys play against each other in their primes.   They all pushed each other, especially Federer who got a head start on the other two.  I personally believe Roger is the most talented but the mental toughness of Nadal and Djoker is beyond extraordinary. 

I would also 2nd that these three are the best to have ever played the game regardless of the difficulty of comparing eras.  Obviously, it's impossible to compare Tilden to these guys but everyone else in the discussion we can glean quite a bit of information.  Remember, Fed beat Sampras at Wimbledon when he was 19.  The idea that Sampras, Agassi, and Courier would have much success against the Big 3 is honestly laughable to me

Now when I look at the eras that I wasn't able to watch live, Borg stands out as the one guy who would have been extremely dangerous.  He had tremendous speed and court coverage with a highly underrated serve.  Connors, McEnroe, Wilander, Lendl, and then Becker and Edberg I think would have all gotten throttled.  Especially vs Rafa on clay.  That would be a total annihilation. 

As for Laver?  I can't realistically give a detailed analysis but we're talking about a guy who's much smaller physically.  To me Borg is the only guy I could see coming close to competing with these guys if he was trained in this era with these rackets. 

[MU82]

Wrong.  The story is finished because I said it's finished.  Rafa = 🐐



In all seriousness we' have been absolutely privileged to essentially watch all three guys play against each other in their primes.   They all pushed each other, especially Federer who got a head start on the other two.  I personally believe Roger is the most talented but the mental toughness of Nadal and Djoker is beyond extraordinary. 

I would also 2nd that these three are the best to have ever played the game regardless of the difficulty of comparing eras.  Obviously, it's impossible to compare Tilden to these guys but everyone else in the discussion we can glean quite a bit of information.  Remember, Fed beat Sampras at Wimbledon when he was 19.  The idea that Sampras, Agassi, and Courier would have much success against the Big 3 is honestly laughable to me

Now when I look at the eras that I wasn't able to watch live, Borg stands out as the one guy who would have been extremely dangerous.  He had tremendous speed and court coverage and a highly underrated serve.  Connors, McEnroe, Wilander, Lendl, and then  Becker, and Edberg I think would have all gotten throttled.  Especially vs Rafa on clay.  That would be a total annihilation. 

As for Laver?  I can't realistically give a detailed analysis but we're talking about a guy who's much smaller physically.  To me Borg is the only guy I could see coming close to competing with these guys if he was trained in this era with these rackets. 

It's a fun discussion.

I would think Sampras and Borg in their primes could have hung with these three, especially on each player's favorite surface. Maybe Laver, Agassi and Lendl (after he got his head right), too. So much would depend on the surface. Borg would have had a chance against Nadal on clay, and maybe Lendl as well, but Sampras and Agassi might have had an advantage over Rafa in Australia. That kind of thing.

But like you, I'm quite comfortable saying Rafa, Novak and Roger are the 3 best male tennis players ever, with Rafa having a slight edge over the other 2 for reasons I've already given.

I can't "prove" it, but nobody else can "prove" otherwise, either!

[MuggsyB]

It's a fun discussion.

I would think Sampras and Borg in their primes could have hung with these three, especially on each player's favorite surface. Maybe Laver, Agassi and Lendl (after he got his head right), too. So much would depend on the surface. Borg would have had a chance against Nadal on clay, and maybe Lendl as well, but Sampras and Agassi might have had an advantage over Rafa in Australia. That kind of thing.

But like you, I'm quite comfortable saying Rafa, Novak and Roger are the 3 best male tennis players ever, with Rafa having a slight edge over the other 2 for reasons I've already given.

I can't "prove" it, but nobody else can "prove" otherwise, either!

I think you're missing a component of this discussion.  Sampras imao had/has the greatest serve in the history of tennis.  Not necessarily the fastest but when you look at his placement, and his 2nd serve, I would slot him #1.  Nevertheless, it's inordinately difficult to serve and volley in this era except on grass.  The ball is coming back way too fast, with too much action, in today's game.  Therefore while Sampras would cause these guys probs, I just don't think he was consistent enough to truly stay with them. 

McEnroe said like 15 yrs ago when he practiced with Nadal that he could not effectively volley vs him in his prime.  Now, as for your former baseliners?  I don't see it other than Borg on all surfaces.  Again it goes back to two main factors:  court coverage and consistency.  Lendl was fantastic and had a nice one two punch but could not move anywhere near the way the Big 3 can. 

Agassi was a poor man's Djoker but hit a far flatter ball.  He could out hit and dictate play vs Sampras on baseline rallies but couldn't do that at all vs Djoker or Nadal.  Federer would also control the points with his all-court game.  As an aside the bludgeoning Nadal would have inflictied on Connors would have been historically ugly and medieval in nature.  He would have destroyed his will and turned a tremendous competitor into a helpless infant which would be fitting. 

I will reserve judgment on Laver and Bill Tilden.  Tilden will never been eliminated from this conversation because I have read he used to "4-Ball" guys.  Meaning when serving he would hold four balls in his left hand and proceed to go:  BAM, BAM, BAM, and BAM.  So we're talking four aces, thanks for playing.  That's badass enough for me to speculate about how his game would translate today. 

[MU82]

I will reserve judgment on Laver and Bill Tilden.

Yes, we need to see them play a little more!

[MuggsyB]

Yes, we need to see them play a little more!

333-34.

That's Rafa's sets win/loss at the French Open.

🐐

[MU82]

333-34.

That's Rafa's sets win/loss at the French Open.

🐐

34 lost sets. What a loser!

[MuggsyB]

Zverev is out for the USOpen and it looks like Djoker won't be able to play as well. 

[MU82]

I'll give Djokovic credit for having the courage of his convictions. He has sacrificed a lot for the right to not be vaccinated.

Going in, the U.S. Open will seem a little lesser because he won't be playing. But once it gets underway, his absence won't be noticed much (if at all) as the other great pros battle for the title.

[MU82]

Djokovic officially out, saying on the twits:

“Sadly, I will not be able to travel to NY this time for US Open. Thank you #NoleFam for your messages of love and support. Good luck to my fellow players! I’ll keep in good shape and positive spirit and wait for an opportunity to compete again. See you soon tennis world!”

[Lennys Tap]

I'll give Djokovic credit for having the courage of his convictions. He has sacrificed a lot for the right to not be vaccinated.

And I’ll give the powers that be credit for sticking to unscientific and discriminatory practices just because they can.

[MU82]

And I’ll give the powers that be credit for sticking to unscientific and discriminatory practices just because they can.

If you say so. I'll let you enjoy having the last word today.

[Dickthedribbler]

Why doesn't he fly to Mexico and then walk into the US like a million other unvaccinated persons have been allowed to do the last year+. He may even get a free cell phone, a box lunch and a free bus ride to NYC out of the deal.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Why doesn't he fly to Mexico and then walk into the US like a million other unvaccinated persons have been allowed to do the last year+. He may even get a free cell phone, a box lunch and a free bus ride to NYC out of the deal.

My guess is he doesn’t need the cell phone.

[Uncle Rico]

Why doesn't he fly to Mexico and then walk into the US like a million other unvaccinated persons have been allowed to do the last year+. He may even get a free cell phone, a box lunch and a free bus ride to NYC out of the deal.

🚨🚨 CARAVAN ALERT 🚨🚨

[shoothoops]

124th ranked Ukrainian Daria Snigur wins her qualifying tourney, and wins her first WTA match, taking out World Top 10 Simona Halep in 3 sets, in the 1st round of the United States Open. Meadow Magic.

[shoothoops]

Get to court 10 if you are at the U.S. Open.

[BM1090]

I can't put a finger on why, but I think Brandon Nakashima is becoming my favorite tennis player.

[MuggsyB]

What is going on with Radacanu? 

[Billy Hoyle]

What is going on with Radacanu?

Coming back to Earth from last year’s fluke run.

[MU82]

The final shot of Nadal's win yesterday was representative of every great shot he's made in his incredible career.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7gsvR95wTM

I'd say "Unbelievable!" like McEnroe did ... but it actually was very believable.

I mean, it's Rafa! Vamos!

[shoothoops]

What is going on with Radacanu?

This is where following more than slam winners and the top few players helps.
Raducanu is doing fine. She’ll be ranked around 80th in the World in two weeks. Pretty impressive at age 19.

Alize Cornet is a good player who this year alone, defeated the World Number 1 at Wimbledon, (Swiatek) number 13 at the French, (Ostapenko) and World Number 3 (Muguruza) in Australia.

Alize Cornet is a good player playing in a record 63 straight grand slam main draw singles. She would have defeated many players with how she played.

(and Raducanu is a two time slam junior quarterfinalist including the U.S. Open. hardly a fluke player)
…………………..
Two time NCAA Singles Champion American Danielle Collins out slugged 4 time slam champion Naomi Osaka a little while later. Osaka played well, but Collins was just too good. Very high level.
………………….
Plenty of time to take the 7 or LIRR this week and next to take in some of the action.

[LloydsLegs]

The final shot of Nadal's win yesterday was representative of every great shot he's made in his incredible career.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7gsvR95wTM

I'd say "Unbelievable!" like McEnroe did ... but it actually was very believable.

I mean, it's Rafa! Vamos!

Well said.  Once Rafa turned up the forehand, not much to be done.  Good effort by Hijikata on AA to provide an entertaining match.