Tennis

[shoothoops]

I was rooting for the teenage underdog, but she could barely stay on the court for an hour with the best player in the world.

Swiatek is simply better at everything than Gauff is, and I always appreciate excellence in sport. It was an effen clinic, especially in the second set. A pleasure to watch.

Swiatek is efficient but also capable of spectacular shots. Has the baton officially been passed from Serena to Iga? All the others had better improve a lot, and quickly.

I don’t agree with this.

[MuggsyB]

Nerves understandably got the better of Coco today. And, that happens to everyone in every sport. Her execution was significantly below her current level, and it was mostly unforced. Tactically there could have been a few minor tweaks but it was mostly nerves. She’ll be fine. 

Opportunity was there in the first set especially as Iga was solid but not elite. Iga improved as match went on in 2nd set, and that is when Gauff started settling in more, but sill not playing anywhere Gauff’s good level.

Credit to Iga for playing solid tennis with flashes of great at times. I think Coco would like to start the match over. She’ll get another opportunity as soon as tomorrow in the doubles final w/Pegula.

Definitely some nerves but she'll have to elevate her game to beat Iga on clay.   Gauff isn't consistent enough right now.  Also, I don't think her fairly easy draw helped her as she didn't face a top 25 player until today.

It's also quite possible Swiatek is a future 10 majors player although it's too soon to really know for sure.  She' has an all court game and has excellent wheels, especially on clay.  I expect Gauff will get there but she definitely needs to improve her 2nd serve and overall consistency.   I actually think clay might be her worst surface when she puts it all together.  She has great pop with her 1st serve and both wings. 

[MuggsyB]

"The opportunity was there in the first set".  Sorry, but that's completely inaccurate.

[shoothoops]

Definitely some nerves but she'll have to elevate her game to beat Iga on clay.   Gauff isn't consistent enough right now.  Also, I don't think her fairly easy draw helped her as she didn't face a top 25 player until today.

It's also quite possible Swiatek is a future 10 majors player although it's too soon to really know for sure.  She' has an all court game and has excellent wheels, especially on clay.  I expect Gauff will get there but she definitely needs to improve her 2nd serve and overall consistency.   I actually think clay might be her worst surface when she puts it all together.  She has great pop with her 1st serve and both wings.

No offense, but the two of you are forming very definitive conclusions based on very limited viewing experience.

It would be more effective if you said in this one match only or in these few matches you have seen.

As for draws, no player has had tougher draws the past few years than Gauff. It’s a common topic of discussion in tennis so much so that it is a statistic of how many times she loses to an eventual title winner or finalist. Draws isn’t it.

[MuggsyB]

Swiatek and Gauff are both incredibly likable. Hard not to root for both of them.

[MuggsyB]

No offense, but the two of you are forming very definitive conclusions based on very limited viewing experience.

It would be more effective if you said in this one match only or in these few matches you have seen.



As for draws, no player has had tougher draws the past few years than Gauff. It’s a common topic of discussion in tennis so much so that it is a statistic of how many times she loses to an eventual title winner or finalist. Draws isn’t it.

So, I can't have an opinion because of my limited "viewing experiences"?   I was a very good high school tennis player and know the game pretty well.  What I saw is someone totally overmatched and essentially blown off the court.  I understand you watch a  lot more tennis, especially women's tennis, but that doesn't mean you're right when you deny reality.  Gauff was never remotely close to being in this match, period.

[shoothoops]

So, I can't have an opinion because of my limited "viewing experiences"?   I was a very good high school tennis player and know the game pretty well.  What I saw is someone totally overmatched and essentially blown off the court.  I understand you watch a  lot more tennis, especially women's tennis, but that doesn't mean you're right when you deny reality.  Gauff was never remotely close to being in this match, period.

No one said you can’t have an opinion. But your opinion is limited to your viewing experience, which is a few matches a year at most correct, as opposed to week to week etc….I believe in the past you have even said that you aren’t interested in Women’s tennis and Women’s sports.

And that’s perfectly fine. We like what we like.

I don’t think a person can make effective  in depth long term evaluations of someone’s play or level based on very few experiences annually, no. You can have an opinion on anything sure, but that doesn’t necessarily make it well informed.

It would be easier and more productive to say, let’s both watch one match and discuss what we think of that one match. But that isn’t what you said or did.

You made conclusive definitive statements about a player’s level, and even specifics about their game based on teeny tiny sample sizes. And unsurprisingly there was a chance someone might disagree a little bit with some of your conclusions.

[MuggsyB]

No one said you can’t have an opinion. But your opinion is limited to your viewing experience, which is a few matches a year at most correct, as opposed to week to week etc….I believe in the past you have even said that you aren’t interested in Women’s tennis and Women’s sports.

And that’s perfectly fine. We like what we like.

I don’t think a person can make effective  in depth long term evaluations of someone’s play or level based on very few experiences annually, no. You can have an opinion on anything sure, but that doesn’t necessarily make it well informed.

It would be easier and more productive to say, let’s both watch one match and discuss what we think of that one match. But that isn’t what you said or did.

You made conclusive definitive statements about a player’s level, and even specifics about their game based on teeny tiny sample sizes. And unsurprisingly there was a chance someone might disagree a little bit with some of your conclusions.

I don't watch as much as you but that doesn't mean I don't know the game or follow it.  And one can make a definitive statement about a specific match even if they aren't well versed in the sport.  That's like saying people who  don't follow soccer, can't state after Brazil beats the crap out of some team, that they didn't dominate the match. 

[shoothoops]

I don't watch as much as you but that doesn't mean I don't know the game or follow it.  And one can make a definitive statement about a specific match even if they aren't well versed in the sport.  That's like saying people who  don't follow soccer, can't state after Brazil beats the crap out of some team, that they didn't dominate the match.

Again, that isn’t what you said. Maybe re-read your 9:31am post here today. I responded to that post. Your comments weren’t specific to one match.

[MuggsyB]

Again, that isn’t what you said. Maybe re-read your 9:31am post here today. I responded to that post. Your comments weren’t specific to one match.

I stated Swiatek completely outplayed Gauff and that's what happened.  Then I stated where I believe Gauff needs to improve to get to the next level.  I also opined that Swiatek may have the potential to be a 10 time major champion.  There is literally nothing that I wrote that is out of the realm of possibility or suggests "my viewing experience" shouldn't allow me to render an opinion.  And as far as my comment about Gauff's draw?  McEnroe and Carillo said the same thing.

[shoothoops]

And with regards to this one match, I don’t think I am saying anything overly astute when I say CG self imploded with nerves the first four games of the match before Iga raised her level later. CG player well below her own level. Iga was solid but not even her best level in the first set. Iga improved as the match progressed and she showed flashes of why she has been a dominant player this Spring.

But the biggest takeaway is CG not playing to her own level. CG is now ranked 13th in the world and you don’t get there by not playing at a level much higher than she played today. And that happens. She lost as a 13 year old in the slam final, got smoked, and returned as a 14 year old to win it. She’ll be fine.

[Uncle Rico]

A true scoop spectacular-o

[shoothoops]

Definitely some nerves but she'll have to elevate her game to beat Iga on clay.   Gauff isn't consistent enough right now.  Also, I don't think her fairly easy draw helped her as she didn't face a top 25 player until today.

It's also quite possible Swiatek is a future 10 majors player although it's too soon to really know for sure.  She' has an all court game and has excellent wheels, especially on clay.  I expect Gauff will get there but she definitely needs to improve her 2nd serve and overall consistency.   I actually think clay might be her worst surface when she puts it all together.  She has great pop with her 1st serve and both wings.

This was your post.

The first part seemed to downplay the nerves aspect. I disagree there, but that is at least about this one match.

I don’t agree that she will have to elevate her game to beat Iga on clay. She would have to play much better than she played today, yes. But her game, in my opinion is good enough now to beat Iga on clay, yes. Today’s version of her game? No. Her current overall level and ability on clay, yes. That is based on a lot more than today.

I couldn’t disagree more that Gauff is too inconsistent. She is one of the most consistent players on tour. Remarkably so. It wouldn’t take much of a search to see pieces written on her very steady climb and progress. Her results week in and week out are very consistent in comparison to the tour.

I don’t believe clay is her worst surface. Not at all. Again, this is based on a lot more than today’s match.

Again, I believe you are making very strong conclusions of more than just this match when this match is what you saw.

[MuggsyB]

This was your post.

The first part seemed to downplay the nerves aspect. I disagree there, but that is at least about this one match.

I don’t agree that she will have to elevate her game to beat Iga on clay. She would have to play much better than she played today, yes. But her game, in my opinion is good enough now to beat Iga on clay, yes. Today’s version of her game? No. Her current overall level and ability on clay, yes. That is based on a lot more than today.

I couldn’t disagree more that Gauff is too inconsistent. She is one of the most consistent players on tour. Remarkably so. It wouldn’t take much of a search to see pieces written on her very steady climb and progress. Her results week in and week out are very consistent in comparison to the tour.

I don’t believe clay is her worst surface. Not at all. Again, this is based on a lot more than today’s match.

Again, I believe you are making very strong conclusions of more than just this match when this match is what you saw.

And perhaps you're making a far bigger deal about nerves and downplaying that she was thoroughly outplayed?  When she got into extended rallies Iga got the best of her.  In fact , when she won a few games early in the 2nd,  it was primarily because Iga had a series of unforced errors.   

[shoothoops]

And perhaps you're making a far bigger deal about nerves and downplaying that she was thoroughly outplayed?  When she got into extended rallies Iga got the best of her.  In fact , when she won a few games early in the 2nd,  it was primarily because Iga had a series of unforced errors.

See, here, you are discussing one match and you are making conclusions about just this match. That's easier to discuss.

I haven't downplayed that Gauff was outplayed. What I said was and is that Gauff's execution today was nowhere near her current level. I think even a novice casual tennis fan would say Gauff was visibly overly nervous more than usual for her. I think that would be fair to say. And it is something she will need to improve in similar situations. And she has in other matches and events on tour week to week. So i think it is reasonable that she will improve upon that in slam singles finals too.

I also even said at times, Iga's level wasn't her best either. Other times she played better.

And even if Gauff had plaued at a much higher level, she may well have lost, but it's reasonable to say that Gauff didn't giverself a chance to be in it. And that's okay for today. She's doing well overall.

[MuggsyB]

See, here, you are discussing one match and you are making conclusions about just this match. That's easier to discuss.

I haven't downplayed that Gauff was outplayed. What I said was and is that Gauff's execution today was nowhere near her current level. I think even a novice casual tennis fan would say Gauff was visibly overly nervous more than usual for her. I think that would be fair to say. And it is somethjng she will need to improve in similar situations. And she has in other matches and events on tour week to week. So i think it is reasonable that she will improve upon that in slam singles finals too.

I also even said at times, Iga's level wasn't her best either. Other times she played better.

Excuse me,  but did you not state something to the effect that Gauff had her chances in the 1st set?  You seriously believe this?  Answer a simple question:  Was Gauff thoroughly outplayed  today or not?

Gauff hadn't played a player close to Swiatek's level the entire French Open.  Her "execution", "nerves", "level of play", or what have you might have something to do with the fact that she was playing the #1 player in the world?  And a woman who's won like 34 straight matches?  Guess what shoothoops?  Nerves are part of the sport.  It happens for all sorts of reasons not just inexperience.  Again, was Gauff completely outplayed or not?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

A true scoop spectacular-o

shoot and Muggs. 

[shoothoops]

shoot and Muggs. 

Says the poster who has posted 26 times in the gun thread in the month of June alone. (and go right ahead and discuss guns in the gun thread)

This is the tennis thread and most of the people in it are discussing tennis.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Says the poster who has posted 26 times in the gun thread in the month of June alone. (and go right ahead and discuss guns in the gun thread)

This is the tennis thread and most of the people in it are discussing tennis.

Are you this thin-skinned in person, or is this just part of your online persona?

[shoothoops]

Are you this thin-skinned in person, or is this just part of your online persona?

What you are doing is called psychological projecting.

And you are perhaps a little lonely today seeking for social validation.

We’d like to keep the tennis thread about tennis, thanks.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

What you are doing is called psychological projecting.

And you are perhaps a little lonely today seeking for social validation.

We’d like to keep the tennis thread about tennis, thanks.

Well then stop responding. 

And thanks for the answer.  Obviously you are just as tiresome in person.

[MU82]

I don’t agree with this.

That's heartbreaking for me, but I think I'll recover.

I stated Swiatek completely outplayed Gauff and that's what happened.  Then I stated where I believe Gauff needs to improve to get to the next level.  I also opined that Swiatek may have the potential to be a 10 time major champion.  There is literally nothing that I wrote that is out of the realm of possibility or suggests "my viewing experience" shouldn't allow me to render an opinion.  And as far as my comment about Gauff's draw?  McEnroe and Carillo said the same thing.

You're 100% correct, Muggs.

[Uncle Rico]

Faints

[MuggsyB]

Rafa with a pretty average 1st set but he still came through 6-3.  He's not near the top of his game right now.  Hopefully be wakes up.  VAMOS RAFA!!

[MuggsyB]

2 down, 1 to go!

Ruud had a glimmer of hope but Rafa ended that quickly.