Tennis

[MuggsyB]

The actual facts are players in past eras played under different circumstances as opposed to now. Those are facts.

What you aren’t doing is allowing past players to have all of those many advantages that players today have when doing your speculative comparisons. That isn’t apples to apples.

Andre Agassi?

He defeated Pete Sampras 14 times. For persecutive, only one other player did it half of that amount. He won the Australian Open almost 50% of the times he played it, and, he still missed the event 12 other times and, he retired at 31. Only 1 other player in his era won more titles than Agassi. When Agassi retired, only 2 players had won more Grand Slams. Only 3 had played in more Grand Slam Finals. Only 2 had played in more slam semifinals. Only 1 had played in more slam quarterfinals. Only 1 player had won more matches. Agassi had a hard court winning percentage of 84%. Only 2 players could match that. Only 2 players had won more Masters Titles.

I think it’s pretty easy to say Agassi would be an all time great in any era. Imagine if he had all of the advantages of today’s players on tour. Do we need to go over all of those again?

He was a phenomenal player, no doubt about that.  Incredible eye-hand coordination and the ability to time the ball perfectly on the rise.  But when I watch Djoker and Nadal they basically do everything Agassi did with far better court coverage and heavier spin and power.  Some of it is technology but not all of it.   They're bigger and stronger guys that would be able to control the rallies imo. 

As for Federer?  Don't forget he beat Sampras at Wimbledon when he was 19 with hardly any experience.   Pete was a bit past his prime but was still very formidable.

You're absolutely right it's not an apples to apples comparison but I think you have to take into account that Djoker, Nadal, and Fed have noticeably fewer weaknesses in their games compared to Sampras or Agassi.  I'm not saying Sampras or Agassi wouldn't pick up a few grand slams the past 15 yrs but it would be extremely difficult for them to win 4, 5, or more imo.  Especially Agassi. 

[MU82]

This is what gaslighters do when they are unable to discuss specific facts of a situation.

20 major titles. Best head-to-head record against his top two rivals, whom most decades-long tennis observers also consider top-5-in-history players. Career grand slam x 2. About to complete only the second slam ever.

It's all been recited ad nauseum. Simpler to just state the obvious.

[shoothoops]

He was a phenomenal player, no doubt about that.  Incredible eye-hand coordination and the ability to time the ball perfectly on the rise.  But when I watch Djoker and Nadal they basically do everything Agassi did with far better court coverage and heavier spin and power.  Some of it is technology but not all of it.   They're bigger and stronger guys that would be able to control the rallies imo. 

As for Federer?  Don't forget he beat Sampras at Wimbledon when he was 19 with hardly any experience.   Pete was a bit past his prime but was still very formidable.

You're absolutely right it's not an apples to apples comparison but I think you have to take into account that Djoker, Nadal, and Fed have noticeably fewer weaknesses in their games compared to Sampras or Agassi.  I'm not saying Sampras or Agassi wouldn't pick up a few grand slams the past 15 yrs but it would be extremely difficult for them to win 4, 5, or more imo.  Especially Agassi.

Every generation has young up and coming players getting wins over aging stars. Why only mention the current generation?  Pete Sampras was 3-0 vs John McEnroe.

You keep comparing 2021 with the 1990’s. It isn’t the same. Are you really going to say with a straight face that string, racket, ball, tech is anywhere near the same then as today? Let alone many other things.

Just taking your example, Novak Djokovic has never missed an Australian Open. Not one time. 17 straight. And he’s done great there winning it 9 times. Andre Agassi has one of the highest winning percentages ever at the Australian Open. Imagine if he hadn’t missed it 12 times.

“Bigger, stronger” is part of the many endless differences of eras. Give past players current conditions. Make current players play in past conditions. No special gluten free diet and medical treatment for Djokovic. Let’s see how much spin the current player put on the ball using past era string  and wood rackets. Good luck.

Let’s have all four Grand Slams have their past playing surfaces instead of their current playing surfaces. The surfaces of the slams in the past were not the same as they are today. This allowed for more variety of types of success, with more players within the same era.

It’s endless apples to oranges. Hence it’s more productive and reasonable to compare and contrast players within the same era because those players play under more similar circumstances.

You keep saying you understand the endless differences and advantages, but then you go straight back to comparing players as they are and were from past eras to the current era without accounting for those same things.

[shoothoops]

The line this morning to watch practice in Rock Creek Park at the Citi Open in Washington D.C.

Finals resale tickets for D.C. and Cincinnati are going for well over $1k.

https://twitter.com/tennisatlantic/status/1421470919688654853?s=21

[MU82]

It sucks that Nadal had to pull out of the U.S. Open, joining Federer and defending champion Dominic Thiem on the sideline.

There are no guarantees, not even for the best player in the world, but Djokovic obviously has an incredible shot at completing the Grand Slam. I don't think it will be "diminished" at all. It's not his fault the others aren't there, and he whupped all competitors in the first three legs, too.

When Djokovic wins this -- and yes, I said "when" -- he also will pass Rafa and Roger for the most major titles. He officially will be the greatest ever.

All of the above should clinch the various "athlete of the year" and "Sportsman of the Year" awards for him. No other athlete on the planet will have so thoroughly dominated his or her sport in 2021.

[MuggsyB]

It sucks that Nadal had to pull out of the U.S. Open, joining Federer and defending champion Dominic Thiem on the sideline.

There are no guarantees, not even for the best player in the world, but Djokovic obviously has an incredible shot at completing the Grand Slam. I don't think it will be "diminished" at all. It's not his fault the others aren't there, and he whupped all competitors in the first three legs, too.

When Djokovic wins this -- and yes, I said "when" -- he also will pass Rafa and Roger for the most major titles. He officially will be the greatest ever.

All of the above should clinch the various "athlete of the year" and "Sportsman of the Year" awards for him. No other athlete on the planet will have so thoroughly dominated his or her sport in 2021.

That really blows but I wouldn't say Djoker slamming the door is a lock.  The pressure will be intense.  I'm hoping Diego Schwartzman matches up with him and shocks the world.  There's also the COVID factor which could wreak some havoc.

[MU82]

That really blows but I wouldn't say Djoker slamming the door is a lock.  The pressure will be intense.  I'm hoping Diego Schwartzman matches up with him and shocks the world.  There's also the COVID factor which could wreak some havoc.

Agree. I said there were no guarantees. But in my opinion, he'll win. I know ... not exactly going out on a limb.

Even without Rafa and the others playing, it would be a hell of an achievement.

[MuggsyB]

Agree. I said there were no guarantees. But in my opinion, he'll win. I know ... not exactly going out on a limb.

Even without Rafa and the others playing, it would be a hell of an achievement.

It doesn't change how big a deal it is if  he gets the GS.  It would be one of the greatest achievements in sports.  It still upsets me that Rafa missed that sitting volley in the 3rd set t-b in the French.  And he double-faulted, that's two free points.  You just don't see that from Rafa. 

[MU82]

Good on Andy Murray strongly encouraging his fellow pros to get vaccinated.

[MuggsyB]

Did you see Kyrios' act yesterday?  Wow just wow.  I predict that two years from now he'll no longer be in grand slam draws, perhaps sooner.   What a waste of talent.

[MU82]

Did you see Kyrios' act yesterday?  Wow just wow.  I predict that two years from now he'll no longer be in grand slam draws, perhaps sooner.   What a waste of talent.

Missed it. I'm bored with him.

[MuggsyB]

Missed it. I'm bored with him.

He constantly bitched to the chair umpire about having to walk to the back of the court to get a towel between points.  Because of COVID the ball kids aren't handing the players a towel and I guess Nicky didn't like this even though it's a policy for all players.  The dude clearly has serious mental issues and the maturity of a toddler.

[MuggsyB]

Great job by Diego Schwartzman!  He took out K. Anderson who is 6'8.  Diego is 5'6. 

[MuggsyB]

Great wins by two 18 year olds knocking out the 3 seeds in the men's and women's draw.  Two huge upsets.  Hopefully Tiafoe comes through.

[MU82]

Did you see that woman chug a beer on 2 different occasions when the camera was on her during the Bautista Agut match? Hilarious!

[MuggsyB]

Did you see that woman chug a beer on 2 different occasions when the camera was on her during the Bautista Agut match? Hilarious!

I missed that but will have to find the video.  Ty.

[MuggsyB]

Rublev is really tough.  These courts seem to be playing crazy fast.  I'm just not sure Tiafoe is consistent enough. He's gonna have to keep popping power serves to have a shot.

[MuggsyB]

Cmon Tiafoe!!!    Have you read his story?  Absolutely incredible.  Impossible not to root for that guy and his family.

[MU82]

As a father and, well, just a human, it was painful to watch Osaka's press conference.

I hope that she eventually finds peace.

[MuggsyB]

Tiafoe was brilliant last night.  He was thwacking the ball with tremendous velocity from both sides in the 5th set and just awesome at the net.   I'm not sure I've seen groundstrokes hit that hard consistently.  We're talking 105-110 mph.  Hopefully he can continue his strong play and make a deep run.

[MU82]

Tiafoe was brilliant last night.  He was thwacking the ball with tremendous velocity from both sides in the 5th set and just awesome at the net.   I'm not sure I've seen groundstrokes hit that hard consistently.  We're talking 105-110 mph.  Hopefully he can continue his strong play and make a deep run.

Didn’t see it. But he’s been a talented guy for years.

[Billy Hoyle]

As a father and, well, just a human, it was painful to watch Osaka's press conference.

I hope that she eventually finds peace.

Maybe more modeling, endorsement deals, and awards show appearances will help, even though it didn’t last time.

Her act has worn thin. If you don’t want to play, don’t play.

[JWags85]

Maybe more modeling, endorsement deals, and awards show appearances will help, even though it didn’t last time.

Her act has worn thin. If you don’t want to play, don’t play.

I feel for her I do, but it does seem like she’s not really helping herself.

I saw an interesting take today about how, while mental health awareness and acceptance is EXTREMELY important and life saving, we collectively start to trend towards almost applauding public examples of depression as opposed to destigmatizing it but also pushing for a remedy and treatment. We’ve known this about these troubles for Osaka for quite sometime, but she never stays away that long and then crumbles again when adversity appears.  I’m not saying “you’re a wealthy athlete, deal with it”, but if you had a friend or family member that had triggers and they kept careening into those triggers without improving in between, I’d still say “are you handling this properly?”

And not for nothing, I’ve thought it for awhile, but I do think a lot of this can be traced back to the Serena debacle at the US Open a few years ago

[Jockey]

Maybe more modeling, endorsement deals, and awards show appearances will help, even though it didn’t last time.

Her act has worn thin. If you don’t want to play, don’t play.

You are a classy guy. But at least you said out loud what people like you believe - mental illness is just an act, presumably to get attention.

I can only guess that you believe Sloane Stephens is a whiny baby, as well.

[MU82]

Maybe more modeling, endorsement deals, and awards show appearances will help, even though it didn’t last time.

Her act has worn thin. If you don’t want to play, don’t play.

Wow.