Tennis

[MuggsyB]

Korda/Khrachanov are now 8-8 in the 5th set.  Potential tiebreaker at 12-12.

[MuggsyB]

I just don't see anyone beating the Djoker.  If he wins Wimbledon he has a really good chance for the calendar grand slam.  It would be a pretty good year for the guy if he goes from 17 to 21 and takes over the record from Nadal and Fed.  You really have to give this dude his props.

[shoothoops]

Angie Kerber has won 3 Grand Slams, she’s been to 15 Grand Slam Round of 16’s. She has been top 10, 8 times in her career including year end number 1 twice. She came in winning one of the biggest tune up grass events. 6-4, 6-4 over Coco Gauff. Tremendous defense, angles, placement in windy conditions. Gauff had plenty of chances, but needed a bit more patience to play extra shots, and forehand let her down a bit at times. Few would have defeated Kerber today. Big in big points, crafty. Good experience. To lose 6-4, 6-4, not playing your best against an elite opponent playing their best, is pretty good.

Ons Jabeur has defeated 3 straight Grand Slam winners into the Quarters over Swiatek. All court game and variety.

Sabalenka, Barty, and quietly, Pliskova moving forward. In particular, Sabalenka has turned a corner in grand slams after being one of the best players who hadn’t had much success at one. High level with Rybakina. Barty takes out the French Open winner Krajcikova.

Disappointment from Madison Keys who lacked patience in her loss to Golubic. Opportunity missed there.

Muchova comes from behind over Badosa. Quietly solid in slams.

[MuggsyB]

Angie Kerber has won 3 Grand Slams, she’s been to 15 Grand Slam Round of 16’s. She has been top 10, 8 times in her career including year end number 1 twice. She came in winning one of the biggest tune up grass events. 6-4, 6-4 over Coco Gauff. Tremendous defense, angles, placement in windy conditions. Gauff had plenty of chances, but needed a bit more patience to play extra shots, and forehand let her down a bit at times. Few would have defeated Kerber today. Big in big points, crafty. Good experience. To lose 6-4, 6-4, not playing your best against an elite opponent playing their best, is pretty good.

Ons Jabeur has defeated 3 straight Grand Slam winners into the Quarters over Swiatek. All court game and variety.

Sabalenka, Barty, and quietly, Pliskova moving forward. In particular, Sabalenka has turned a corner in grand slams after being one of the best players who hadn’t had much success at one. High level with Rybakina. Barty takes out the French Open winner Krajcikova.

Disappointment from Madison Keys who lacked patience in her loss to Golubic. Opportunity missed there.

Muchova comes from behind over Badosa. Quietly solid in slams.

Kerber would have probably beaten everyone left in the draw today.  Coco just needs to improve her 2nd serve and consistency with her forehand.  She'll be fine. 

[shoothoops]

Kerber is very good, and, played at a high level. Coco’s serve was good enough today. Forehand was an issue and she wasn’t as comfortable as Kerber in the wind. Kerber was 11 years older than Gauff, 28 when she won her first grand slam. She has since won 3 and is going for 4.

Unlike her elite backhand, she hits her forehand upright, and open, instead of turning her shoulders and getting down. That’s why she gives herself more topspin margin on that side and hits a deep looping forehand with placement. She improved it some in the 2nd with more technique similar to her backhand. But it wasn’t consistent enough. A few too many loose points after a frustrating long point. And coming in before hitting a good enough shot to come in. But these are all improvable things. The margin between the two players was very small. Gauff scrambles as well as anyone, few have as good of a backhand, much improved first serve. Kerber spoke about Gauff’s game, talent, compete level, and professionalism, after.

Kerber to her credit defended extremely well, angles, strategic rallies, finesse placement, while still finishing off points. Coming into the match Kerber had the most backhand winners in the tourney. Very easily could have been a deep 3 setter.

Gauff continues to be a top 10 player this year, and she will improve upon her now 23rd World Ranking. 17, remarkable.

Lots of players left can win it, but Kerber played very well and has as good of a chance as anyone.

[shoothoops]

Sebastian Korda will want his match back. That one will sting a long time. Those don’t leave you any time soon. 10-8 in 5th. Fatigue in the 5th, just couldn’t get any pop or placement on his serve. Ran out of gas. Continues his great run up the Men’s ranks. His top 50 will keep improving. But he would have preferred a better ending to his 21st birthday.

[MuggsyB]

Wow...Two Canadians in the Quarters?

That has to be a first.

[shoothoops]

It is the first 2 Canadian Men that have advanced to any grand slam Quarterfinal in the same year in the Open Era. Big day for Canada.

It's a big day for Australia. First time since 1980 two Australian Women have faced one another in any slam Quarter. Wendy Turnbull fell to Evonne Goolagong.

It's also a big day for anyone connected to Ajla Tomljanovic. She joins her boyfriend Matteo Berrettini in the Wimbledon Quarters, and, Felix Auger Aliassime, who dates her cousin, joins them in the Quarters as well.

It's a big day for Tunisia and North Africa as Ons Jabeur keeps adding to her milestones.

There will be two Czech Republic Women in the Quarters, and, possibly two Russian men as well..

22 of the possible 24 quarterfinalists in 3 majors this year for the Women are different players. Only Muchova and Barty have made more than one.

[MuggsyB]

Djoker just continues to roll players.  Chances he does not win the title and get to 20?

a) 0%
b) 5%-15%
c) 15%-25%
d) 25%-50%
e) 50% or >

I'm going with A.

[MU82]

From the AP:

https://apnews.com/article/europe-wimbledon-tennis-sports-53bd9e520b452c3347741a8e052ebb96?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=July8_MorningWire&utm_term=Morning%20Wire%20Subscribers

WIMBLEDON, England (AP) — Roger Federer has been feted by plenty of ovations at Wimbledon’s Centre Court. None quite like this one, though. This was not a celebration and didn’t come at the end of the match.

Instead, it delayed the beginning of what turned out to be the last game of his quarterfinal loss and felt more like a “thank you” or — just in case — a “goodbye.” And Federer acknowledged afterward he isn’t sure whether he’ll be back.

It's already pretty obvious that Federer's days of winning majors are over. He wants to resist retiring, though, in part because he still loves competing and in part because of his huge endorsement haul, but it's clearly the end of an era.

It was a hell of a run, one of the best in sports history.

[shoothoops]

From the AP:

https://apnews.com/article/europe-wimbledon-tennis-sports-53bd9e520b452c3347741a8e052ebb96?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=July8_MorningWire&utm_term=Morning%20Wire%20Subscribers

WIMBLEDON, England (AP) — Roger Federer has been feted by plenty of ovations at Wimbledon’s Centre Court. None quite like this one, though. This was not a celebration and didn’t come at the end of the match.

Instead, it delayed the beginning of what turned out to be the last game of his quarterfinal loss and felt more like a “thank you” or — just in case — a “goodbye.” And Federer acknowledged afterward he isn’t sure whether he’ll be back.

It's already pretty obvious that Federer's days of winning majors are over. He wants to resist retiring, though, in part because he still loves competing and in part because of his huge endorsement haul, but it's clearly the end of an era.

It was a hell of a run, one of the best in sports history.

Two topics:

1) Can the player still win titles? In Federer’s case, yes.

2) Does it matter if they keep playing but can’t? In every case, no.

If one can make the Quarterfinals, having played so little match play, one can win the tourney. And, of course, one doesn’t have to win tourneys to keep playing tourneys. A lot of tennis players, golfers, etc otherwise wouldn’t be playing their sports.

They said Federer was done years ago, until he kept winning. Sampras was done until he won the U.S. Open.

Is Nadal done since he lost in the French semis? No. Will he play another French? Yes.

Federer didn’t say it was his last Wimbledon. He said he wants to play again next year and he takes things year by year considering a variety of factors, including health, training, prep, family. etc..He gave straightforward, thoughtful answers to some good and some not so good questions. We have previously discussed that somewhat similar to the Super Bowl, you get all kinds of media you normally wouldn’t at a major.

It didn’t feel like a goodbye. It didn’t feel like he is or isn’t coming back. it felt like he lost to a good, top level, in form player, in the Quarters of Wimbledon. He will regroup as he has in any defeat, and, he said as much in his presser and he will bounce back to the next events on tour. Rafa Nadal for example, hasn’t made the Finals of Wimbledon since 2010. None of these are easy to win.

Making the Quarterfinals of a major is an accomplishment at any age, and, at any stage of a career.

I realize there are casual observers and even casual media that only count slams, but, even for some of those people, this is a bit knee jerk extreme.

Why is Angie Kerber playing in the Wimbledon Semifinals right now? Someone please let her know she was done a few years ago.

Serena Williams has made at least one grand slam semifinal or better every year since 1999, including this year, yet some have wanted to retire her many years ago.

I hope Federer and the like play 10 or 20 more years, perhaps more doubles, mixed doubles too. Whatever he likes. Good for him. The list of players on tour that have made a slam quarters isn’t all that long. Venus Williams keeps playing. What a fun, thrilling mixed doubles match for her this year at Wimbledon, one of the better matches ot the event.

[MU82]

Two topics:

1) Can the player still win titles? In Federer’s case, yes.

2) Does it matter if they keep playing but can’t? In every case, no.

If one can make the Quarterfinals, having played so little match play, one can win the tourney. And, of course, one doesn’t have to win tourneys to keep playing tourneys. A lot of tennis players, golfers, etc otherwise wouldn’t be playing their sports.

They said Federer was done years ago, until he kept winning. Sampras was done until he won the U.S. Open.

Is Nadal done since he lost in the French semis? No. Will he play another French? Yes.

Federer didn’t say it was his last Wimbledon. He said he wants to play again next year and he takes things year by year considering a variety of factors, including health, training, prep, family. etc..He gave straightforward, thoughtful answers to some good and some not so good questions. We have previously discussed that somewhat similar to the Super Bowl, you get all kinds of media you normally wouldn’t at a major.

It didn’t feel like a goodbye. It didn’t feel like he is or isn’t coming back. it felt like he lost to a good, top level, in form player, in the Quarters of Wimbledon. He will regroup as he has in any defeat, and, he said as much in his presser and he will bounce back to the next events on tour. Rafa Nadal for example, hasn’t made the Finals of Wimbledon since 2010. None of these are easy to win.

Making the Quarterfinals of a major is an accomplishment at any age, and, at any stage of a career.

I realize there are casual observers and even casual media that only count slams, but, even for some of those people, this is a bit knee jerk extreme.

Why is Angie Kerber playing in the Wimbledon Semifinals right now? Someone please let her know she was done a few years ago.

Serena Williams has made at least one grand slam semifinal or better every year since 1999, including this year, yet some have wanted to retire her many years ago.

I hope Federer and the like play 10 or 20 more years, perhaps more doubles, mixed doubles too. Whatever he likes. Good for him. The list of players on tour that have made a slam quarters isn’t all that long. Venus Williams keeps playing. What a fun, thrilling mixed doubles match for her this year at Wimbledon, one of the better matches ot the event.

Yes, Federer "can" win another major. IMHO, he will not.

Nadal is not Federer. I'd give him a decent shot, at least in the French.

If Djokovic stays healthy, he will own every meaningful record before he's through, and like it or not there will be only a few who dispute that he's the best ever. You, of course, are welcome to be one of the few.

[lawdog77]

Yes, Federer "can" win another major. IMHO, he will not.

Nadal is not Federer. I'd give him a decent shot, at least in the French.

If Djokovic stays healthy, he will own every meaningful record before he's through, and like it or not there will be only a few who dispute that he's the best ever. You, of course, are welcome to be one of the few.

Not sure what you consider meaningful
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-time_tennis_records_%E2%80%93_men%27s_singles

but Federer's 23 consecutive GS semis, or his streak of 10 straight Finals, followed up by another streak of 8 straight Finals will be hard to beat.

I like Novak and to me you can argue either he, Nadal, or Federer are the best all time. (Rod Laver had his moments IMHO).

[shoothoops]

Yes, Federer "can" win another major. IMHO, he will not.

Nadal is not Federer. I'd give him a decent shot, at least in the French.

If Djokovic stays healthy, he will own every meaningful record before he's through, and like it or not there will be only a few who dispute that he's the best ever. You, of course, are welcome to be one of the few.

Federer lost in the Wimbledon quarterfinals. Nadal hasn’t played in a Wimbledon Final in 11 years. He went 5 straight years not even making the quarterfinals. Should he stop playing Wimbledon by your standards? No, of course not.

I am not one of a few actually who don’t believe it is realistically possible to compare eras. It isn’t a small group. If comparing eras is something you want to do, go ahead. But it’s just a subjective personal preference as opposed to any all era fair objective measure. For me, I have no desire to pick one best player or team or …of all time because it’s subjective, and, often related to personal bias of personal like and personal experience. Saying who or what you like isn’t the same as saying who is the best. That’s different. It’s more realistic to compare players within the same era and overlapping eras. Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic are all at the top of their overlapping eras.

Taylor Fritz made a great run this year at Wimbledon, just a few weeks after torn meniscus surgery. That modern medicine wouldn’t have been possible in other eras.

Players didn’t play for slams and count slams in other eras. Slam money was nowhere near it is now. In today’s game, for example, it’s a big deal for a fledgling player to make it the main draw of a slam to get that bigger check.

Sponsor money wasn’t the same either. Players couldn’t afford to skip events, rest, injury, recovery in the past. Travel was also different as was the schedule. Many players didn’t even begin playing Australia until the later 1980’s. Monica Seles was stabbed on court as she was dominating the tour. She had chances to win many more majors, also taking some away from others. We’ll never know. Hence another example as to why picking one player isn’t possible.

Chrissie Evert won 125 straight matches on clay, yet, she missed 3 straight French Opens during her peak. She also missed 13 Australian Opens. Today’s players can afford to pay for coaching, training, nutrition, private lodging at tourneys. Some players retired to start families.

Rod Laver went 5 straight years during his peak, not playing any slams at all. 20 opportunities.

Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic have been the best players of their overlapping eras. But that’s as far as it goes. And, that’s great. Some of the others mentioned were the best in their eras. And that’s great too. The fun part is not having to pick just one player or era. I can enjoy them all equally just as I would in any other sport.

Sports records get broken all the time. But what matters is what that player or team did in their era at that time. Are we really going to compare eras in football when the game has changed and evolved with different points of emphasis etc…? Nah.

And of course, playing is about so much more than whomever wins at the highest level.

It’s like soccer, the Euros have been great fun. But so have the June and July U13-U19 boys and girls USYS, Academy League, MLS next, ECNL, etc…They have also been a lot of fun too. And of course practice is where the work is put in, the incremental improvements click in when no one is watching, the good stuff.

You are certainly entitled to your interests. You are interested in two things in tennis. One particular current player, and counting slams. That’s it.

And that is perfectly fine. We like what we like. But, the actual sport of course is about so much more than just that. And, with that is a recognition that different eras are played under very different circumstances, and, therefore cannot be objectively compared. And playing and story lines are about so much more than the singles title winner in a major.

Rafa Nadal has entered the upcoming August, Washington D.C. Citi Open. Why? He’s never been to Washington D.C. and he’s always wanted to go there. Rock Creek Park, 50% capacity. Several good players are playing. It isn’t a major, and, he may not win it, but, he’s going to play anyway.

[MuggsyB]

Fiull disclosure Rafa is by far my fav player.
Between the Big 3 if they stopped playing right now I think you can make an argument for all of them.  That said, Djokovic looks like he could play another 4-5 yrs.  If he gets to  say 23, 24 and wins another French Open there is no way you can make an argument he's not the all-time best.

When I look at all three you can certainly break it down that Roger is the best on grass, Rafa on clay, and Novak on a hard-court.  Although I'm wondering the speed difference between the USOpen and AO?  Is the Australian a slower hard-court?   One thing is certain:  Rafa is the best on clay. 

Here's the odd thing about this discussion.  Wimbledon is still considered the most important/prestigious tournament.  Yet, very few tournaments are played on grass during the course of the season.  I actually believe Federer has the most complete game of the 3 if you look at the variety of his shots but he's not as consistent or as tough mentally.

[MU82]

Federer lost in the Wimbledon quarterfinals. Nadal hasn’t played in a Wimbledon Final in 11 years. He went 5 straight years not even making the quarterfinals. Should he stop playing Wimbledon by your standards? No, of course not.

I am not one of a few actually who don’t believe it is realistically possible to compare eras. It isn’t a small group. If comparing eras is something you want to do, go ahead. But it’s just a subjective personal preference as opposed to any all era fair objective measure. For me, I have no desire to pick one best player or team or …of all time because it’s subjective, and, often related to personal bias of personal like and personal experience. Saying who or what you like isn’t the same as saying who is the best. That’s different. It’s more realistic to compare players within the same era and overlapping eras. Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic are all at the top of their overlapping eras.

Taylor Fritz made a great run this year at Wimbledon, just a few weeks after torn meniscus surgery. That modern medicine wouldn’t have been possible in other eras.

Players didn’t play for slams and count slams in other eras. Slam money was nowhere near it is now. In today’s game, for example, it’s a big deal for a fledgling player to make it the main draw of a slam to get that bigger check.

Sponsor money wasn’t the same either. Players couldn’t afford to skip events, rest, injury, recovery in the past. Travel was also different as was the schedule. Many players didn’t even begin playing Australia until the later 1980’s. Monica Seles was stabbed on court as she was dominating the tour. She had chances to win many more majors, also taking some away from others. We’ll never know. Hence another example as to why picking one player isn’t possible.

Chrissie Evert won 125 straight matches on clay, yet, she missed 3 straight French Opens during her peak. She also missed 13 Australian Opens. Today’s players can afford to pay for coaching, training, nutrition, private lodging at tourneys. Some players retired to start families.

Rod Laver went 5 straight years during his peak, not playing any slams at all. 20 opportunities.

Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic have been the best players of their overlapping eras. But that’s as far as it goes. And, that’s great. Some of the others mentioned were the best in their eras. And that’s great too. The fun part is not having to pick just one player or era. I can enjoy them all equally just as I would in any other sport.

Sports records get broken all the time. But what matters is what that player or team did in their era at that time. Are we really going to compare eras in football when the game has changed and evolved with different points of emphasis etc…? Nah.

And of course, playing is about so much more than whomever wins at the highest level.

It’s like soccer, the Euros have been great fun. But so have the June and July U13-U19 boys and girls USYS, Academy League, MLS next, ECNL, etc…They have also been a lot of fun too. And of course practice is where the work is put in, the incremental improvements click in when no one is watching, the good stuff.

You are certainly entitled to your interests. You are interested in two things in tennis. One particular current player, and counting slams. That’s it.

And that is perfectly fine. We like what we like. But, the actual sport of course is about so much more than just that. And, with that is a recognition that different eras are played under very different circumstances, and, therefore cannot be objectively compared. And playing and story lines are about so much more than the singles title winner in a major.

Rafa Nadal has entered the upcoming August, Washington D.C. Citi Open. Why? He’s never been to Washington D.C. and he’s always wanted to go there. Rock Creek Park, 50% capacity. Several good players are playing. It isn’t a major, and, he may not win it, but, he’s going to play anyway.

Thanks for all the info.

[lawdog77]

I forgot the US Open wasn't hardcourt until 1978.

Also, I would thoroughly enjoy watching matches on carpet, or wood. What other surfaces could it be played on?


#Titles   Hard
71   Switzerland Roger Federer
61   Serbia Novak Djokovic
49   United States Jimmy Connors
United States Andre Agassi
41   United States Pete Sampras
33   United Kingdom Andy Murray
30   Czechoslovakia Ivan Lendl
28   Australia Rod Laver
23   Sweden Stefan Edberg
22   United States John McEnroe
   
#   Clay
92   Czech Republic/Egypt Jaroslav Drobný[54]
76[55]   United States Bill Tilden
75   New Zealand Anthony Wilding[56][57]
65[55]   France Henri Cochet
62[55]   United Kingdom Josiah Ritchie
Spain Rafael Nadal
60[55]   United States Budge Patty
56[55]   Spain Manuel Santana
54[55]   Australia Roy Emerson
49[55]   Argentina Guillermo Vilas
United States Frank Parker
   
#   Grass
82[58]   United Kingdom Roy Edward Allen
56[58]   United Kingdom Josiah Ritchie
52[58]   United Kingdom Sydney H. Smith
51[58]   United Kingdom Herbert R. Barrett
49[58]   United States Bill Tilden
44[58]   United States William Larned
Australia Jack Crawford
Australia Rod Laver
41[58]   Australia Roy Emerson
40[58]   Australia John Bromwich
   
#   Carpet
43   United States John McEnroe
39   United States Jimmy Connors
34   Czechoslovakia/United States Ivan Lendl
22   Germany Boris Becker
Australia Rod Laver
Sweden Björn Borg
18   United States Arthur Ashe
13   United States Pete Sampras
Croatia Goran Ivanišević
12   United States Stan Smith
   
#   Wood
23   France Jean Borotra[59][60]
20   Australia Ken Rosewall
18   Australia Rod Laver
15   United States Bill Tilden
9   United Kingdom George Caridia[61]
8   United Kingdom Laurence Doherty
7   United Kingdom Ernest Lewis
Australia Anthony Wilding
5   France André Gobert
4   Czechoslovakia Jaroslav Drobný
United Kingdom Robert Wilson
 

[MuggsyB]

Pliskova might want to wake up or this could be the quickest match in Wimbledon history.  Barty with the first 14 points. 

[MuggsyB]

I didn't realize how good Evonne Goolagong was back in the 70's.  Her record was very impressive and she seems to get overlooked historically.  Her story is also quite inspiring. 

[Herman Cain]

I didn't realize how good Evonne Goolagong was back in the 70's.  Her record was very impressive and she seems to get overlooked historically.  Her story is also quite inspiring.

Was a featured player in the 70s and got a lot of publicity for her Aboriginal roots.

[MuggsyB]

Was a featured player in the 70s and got a lot of publicity for her Aboriginal roots.

She may have gotten publicity back then but not really to the level she deserves right now imo.  She won 86 tournaments, 7 GS, and was in 18 GS Finals?  For four years in the 70's she made every GS Final?  She wasn't as good as Court, King, Evert, or Martina but clearly she had serious game Herman.

[MuggsyB]

It turned out to be a pretty good match.  Barty has a nice variety on her game.

[shoothoops]

ESPN extends Wimbledon contract through 2035. It’s mostly the same except ABC will add additional coverage on the middle weekend of the tourney moving forward.

Women’s semis: Barty over Kerber. Pliskova over Sabalenka. Barty didn’t allow Kerber to play her trademark counterpuncher tennis, and, Pliskova made Sabalenka play cross court angles vs center of the court.

Barty over Pliskova in 3. Neither at their best. Barty saved her best for Kerber. 2nd Grand Slam Title for Barty. Too much complete game from Barty, can do too many things, including a few more things that Pliskova can’t. Pliskova had long been the best to win a major, former number 1. Has knocked on the door late in all 4 majors.  Still top 10.

Barty wins Wimbledon Title 10 years after winning the Wimbledon Junior Title. (It’s a long road from being a teenager to the often more successful mid 20’s age in current tennis).

Barty is first Women’s player to win Wimbledon Title wearing a baseball cap since, Alice Marble in 1939.

Barty took two years off of tennis as a teen because transition from Juniors to pros was tough. Played Cricket. Returned at 21. Took a year off during the pandemic. Played a lot this year, two injuries, a heavy wrapped thigh much of the year. And an acute hip o jury at the French. Won back to back Miami Opens. Won 4 titles this year not including doubles. 

All court game, variety, athleticism, finesse, power, placement. 5’5. Ipswich, Queensland, Ngaragu Indigenous people.

Evonne Goolagong lived with 7 siblings, no electricity. Found a coach as a teen to help her game, steer her from the racism, but also preyed upon her.  Free flowing game, huge success despite late start, limited funds, limited travel, and injuries. One of the best all time  players, paving the way.

Hsieh/Mertens come back in a 3 set thriller over Vesnina/Kudermetova in Women’s Doubles, saving two match points, 9-7 in the 3rd. Hsieh won it two years ago with Barbora Strycova.

[MuggsyB]

Djoker not sharp early.  Berrettini needs to take advantage. 

[MuggsyB]

Wow.   Berrettini takes the 1st set after being down 5-2.  Djoker is going to have to dig deep.  He's way off his game while Berrettini is looking more confident. He has the power to hit him off the court on grass.