MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on December 02, 2017, 03:10:20 PM
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1. So, does anybody still think Matt is better than Luke.
2. UGA ran Marquette's shooters off the line very well. Good preparation for conference play.
3. Wojo sent the message to Rowsey. Didn't help. Only so many options.
4. Two early fouls on Markus messed up the whole game.
5. Just once, it would be nice to get some home cooking from the refs.
6. Theo looks lost. Other frosh were solid.
7. You can complain about Rowsey all you want. Since there are no options, we have to live with him.
8. In the end, the team that played better won. Bigger, stronger, more experienced, deeper.
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Having Markus the whole game would have made it a lot easier. Have to live and die by the shooting performance. Absolutely zero inside game. Froling will have be the difference between a hopeful tournament (NCAA or NIT) vs. nothing in my opinion.
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Excluding Markus Howard, #mubb shot 36.3% eFG%.
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1. So, does anybody still think Matt is better than Luke.
2. UGA ran Marquette's shooters off the line very well. Good preparation for conference play.
3. Wojo sent the message to Rowsey. Didn't help. Only so many options.
4. Two early fouls on Markus messed up the whole game.
5. Just once, it would be nice to get some home cooking from the refs.
6. Theo looks lost. Other frosh were solid.
7. You can complain about Rowsey all you want. Since there are no options, we have to live with him.
8. In the end, the team that played better won. Bigger, stronger, more experienced, deeper.
I'll complain.
Rowsey shot too much, and had half of our turnovers.
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We sucked today.
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Just an off shooting night, and I thought mostly self-inflicted. Georgia's defense really wasn't that great. Our defense was surprisingly good, particularly on the parimeter.
Any chance Fischy has a year of eligibility left?
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Certainly a game Harry would have turned to a W.
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Its hard to see the team getting to the NCAA tournament, the offense is too dependent on three point shooting and two players to have success. At least itll be fun watching the freshman progress.
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Rough game to be sure.
Rowsey was very scattered. At one point we were tied or up 1 and I swear we turned it over or took a terrible shot 5 straight drives.
(Albeit 2 off of people's feet, rowseys up and down "held ball")
We didn't look terrible. But their D was stuffing us.
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Rowsey was very frustrating today, Heldt too. Come on Harry.
I agree with you Tower, good assessment.
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Heldt is completely inept. Tough to watch that guy play. Much like it is tough to watch this team play.
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FIscher would never have made it to the finish and Manten had a career game against him last year. Heldt missed his layins today, contributed to the loss. Fischer had more than a few duds offensively and evry game defensively was a dud.
Rowseys needs to stop turning the ball over 6 times a game
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1) Froeling can't get here soon enough. Not sure he's our savior, but if he is any good at all, it will help save our season.
2) I am so tired of sloppy ball-handling I could scream. If it would matter, I would scream (and did during the game).
3) Way too many bad decisions on passing, driving etc.
4) Elliott is a keeper and someone who we may be able to build a program around. If Rowsey doesn't stop making bad decisions and turning the ball over, look for his backside to be bolted to the bench in favor of Elliott.
5) Loved Elliott's charge. Wow. That shows an intelligence level that excites.
6) We recruit well but I still think four years in, the lack of good decision making at times is on the coaches. Something is missing and needs to fix fast.
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Its hard to see the team getting to the NCAA tournament, the offense is too dependent on three point shooting and two players to have success. At least itll be fun watching the freshman progress.
Having a big man that can score would help the shooters a lot. Froling may not be that guy, but we'll find out in a couple weeks.
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Agree with Rowsey, but it was obvious to everyone, 4 for 15 with 6 turnovers, nothing else.
Wojo not sitting Howard at end of first half and then picking up #3 hurt, but he's the coach
Heldt missed all six shots within three feet. Happ, Delgado, Govan, O'Mara, etc are enroute.....
Matt also continues to go outside three point line to guard, but today didn't get back on 4 occasions leading to dunks and also fouled a guy on two point shot. He was tired from running back and forth.
Hauser took one shot in second half with three minutes to go and missed a wide open three. One shot.....
MU made two baskets in last six minutes.
Theo John has played about 80 minutes of college ball and has committed 28 fouls. Maybe Ike is the one who should not have been redshirted, can be much worse than these stats.
RPI may not matter with this team, two losses at home to Purdue and Georgia will hurt. No more baby blues please.
The bigger, stronger, more experienced team excuses will continue until next year, then can't use it anymore.
Maybe wins in next two games will help and they can get on a run, but who knows. Play Cain and Elliott more for experience.
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2) I am so tired of sloppy ball-handling I could scream. If it would matter, I would scream (and did during the game).
Me too!
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Coaching was ok, but Howard on the bench for the first 7(?) minutes of the half was a big mistake (especially since he didn't pick up another foul the rest of the game). Yes he picked up the cheapy, but his presence was why we were tied up going into half. Him in the game out of the gate would have been a bit more firepower and maybe would have let us make a bucket before the 16 minutes mark...
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Two ugly home losses...ugh
Need to share on offense...Sam MIA in 2nd. No sharing of the rock and too many quick turns by #brewski with his lose handle and showboating.
Decent defensive game, ex the fouling.
Wojo needs to get team back. Lots of games, lots of drama, too little practice time
We need a PG, not just two combos
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1. We played poorly and lost. Momma said there'd be days like this.
2. Need Harry to provide some offense. We're too dependent on the big three right now.
3. Open spot needs to go to a quality guard. Need a ball handler and a scorer.
4. Next two games are huge. Need at least one, preferably both.
5. Probably need to go 10-8 in the BE now or 9-9 with a trip to BET semis to get to the Dance.
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So are we all still hungover from Maui/emotional over the departure of Cheatham?
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Rough game to be sure.
Rowsey was very scattered. At one point we were tied or up 1 and I swear we turned it over or took a terrible shot 5 straight drives.
(Albeit 2 off of people's feet, rowseys up and down "held ball")
We didn't look terrible. But their D was stuffing us.
Actually we did look terrible, not sure what game you watched.
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1. So, does anybody still think Matt is better than Luke.
2. UGA ran Marquette's shooters off the line very well. Good preparation for conference play.
3. Wojo sent the message to Rowsey. Didn't help. Only so many options.
4. Two early fouls on Markus messed up the whole game.
5. Just once, it would be nice to get some home cooking from the refs.
6. Theo looks lost. Other frosh were solid.
7. You can complain about Rowsey all you want. Since there are no options, we have to live with him.
8. In the end, the team that played better won. Bigger, stronger, more experienced, deeper.
Just like when Hauser got those early fouls against WSU. Took us right out of our game. Hope Harry can add a little extra offense, but really hope he can add some defense; grab a few rebounds.
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Tower:
In the other thread you were pesessmitic about this season because Hannif transferred. You think he would have made a difference?
I don’t and today’s game was a good example of why his decision to leave will not affect how this team plays this season.
General manager Branch Rickey reportedly told Ralph Kiner, "We finished last with you, we can finish last without you."
I feel the sane way about Hannif,
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Need to tighten the leash on Rowsey, the green light he gets is too green, some of those shots he took were just flat out terrible.
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1. Harry is going to have to be Bill F-ing Russel to salvage the mess that we call our interior defense.
2. Rowsey should be forbidden to drive. I know, I know, too often there is nothing else, but
3. Bad things happen when Rowsey drives.
4. Matt cannot make a contested shot.
5. The craziness of our 5 defending on 3-point land was exposed again today, as noted above.
6. The BE season will be ugly.
7. Forget the dance, forget the bubble. I hope they forget the NIT (and I remember when the NIT was something).
8. It’s a bridge year.
9. Looking for positives, nice to see Jamal and Greg gaining experience. Nice game for Markus, but he too needs to learn how to stay off the pine. Imagine if Haanif or Rowsey had his floater.
10. Four years in and kind of disappointed. There don’t seem to be many BE teams that we will be truly competitive with.
A lot of folks think we’ll be loaded next year - time will tell.
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FIscher would never have made it to the finish and Manten had a career game against him last year.
Maten had 30/13 against Kansas. I'm pretty sure he's not touting 24/6 against Marquette as his career game.
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That game sucked.
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FIscher would never have made it to the finish and Manten had a career game against him last year. Heldt missed his layins today, contributed to the loss. Fischer had more than a few duds offensively and evry game defensively was a dud.
Rowseys needs to stop turning the ball over 6 times a game
Give it a rest. Fischer doesn't play for us anymore and if he did, he would've had some points. Matt isn't as good as Fischy was. Maybe next year, but not now he isn't.
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Tower:
In the other thread you were pesessmitic about this season because Hannif transferred. You think he would have made a difference?
I don’t and today’s game was a good example of why his decision to leave will not affect how this team plays this season.
General manager Branch Rickey reportedly told Ralph Kiner, "We finished last with you, we can finish last without you."
I feel the sane way about Hannif,
Depth and options. Maybe AR spends more time in the bench.
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Sam did nothing on the offensive end
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1. Harry is going to have to be Bill F-ing Russel to salvage the mess that we call our interior defense.
2. Rowsey should be forbidden to drive. I know, I know, too often there is nothing else, but
3. Bad things happen when Rowsey drives.
4. Matt cannot make a contested shot.
5. The craziness of our 5 defending on 3-point land was exposed again today, as noted above.
6. The BE season will be ugly.
7. Forget the dance, forget the bubble. I hope they forget the NIT (and I remember when the NIT was something).
8. It’s a bridge year.
9. Looking for positives, nice to see Jamal and Greg gaining experience. Nice game for Markus, but he too needs to learn how to stay off the pine. Imagine if Haanif or Rowsey had his floater.
10. Four years in and kind of disappointed. There don’t seem to be many BE teams that we will be truly competitive with.
A lot of folks think we’ll be loaded next year - time will tell.
That's what bugged me about Cheatham. I remember thinking midway through his freshman year, "Once he develops a mid-range game, he is going to be tough to handle." It never happened.
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Woj needs to make adjustments, eventually you’re going to need to beat good teams
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1. So, does anybody still think Matt is better than Luke.
2. UGA ran Marquette's shooters off the line very well. Good preparation for conference play.
3. Wojo sent the message to Rowsey. Didn't help. Only so many options.
4. Two early fouls on Markus messed up the whole game.
5. Just once, it would be nice to get some home cooking from the refs.
6. Theo looks lost. Other frosh were solid.
7. You can complain about Rowsey all you want. Since there are no options, we have to live with him.
8. In the end, the team that played better won. Bigger, stronger, more experienced, deeper.
9. Need to get everybody involved on the offensive end early. Easier for everyone to score if defense has to guard everyone. Rowsey, in particular, does not seem to trust anyone other than Howard and Hauser.
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Sam did nothing on the offensive end
This is the biggest point and gets lost in the poor games by Rowsey and Heldt. We need him to be that third option.
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According to Pomeroy, Theo is called for 13.5 fouls per 40 minutes. A different way to redshirt, I guess.
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I'll give Rowsey some slack because we need him to score in bunches and that will mean taking some bad shots, but he can't be so loose with the ball. Same with Markus, for that matter. IIRC, the two combined for 3 turnovers in 3 trips when we had a 1-point lead with about 6 mins to go. Killers. Your guards just can't do that.
I watched in a bar with 3 other NC Warriors and I said out loud that Wojo should go back to Markus in the first half. Yeah, he got his 3rd, but he made it possible for us to stay in the game because nobody else had anything going. I would have started him in the 2nd half with the 3 fouls, too.
Need more from Sam. He's actually a decent post player; could have run Matt to the high post and put Sam down low a few times.
Georgia is a good defensive team. There's no shame in losing to them ... but we definitely could have won this game.
I know that everybody says Froling is an outside player, but I hope he has at least some interior game. Desperately need it. Any time Heldt has to play 32 mins, that can't be a good thing. On and decent team, he wouldn't average more than 15 mins; and on many elite teams, he wouldn't leave the bench.
Very encouraged by Cain and especially Elliott, who is going to be a fine college player.
Vermont is close to must-win. F&cky is important, too. Season's not over, despite some of the gloom we're feeling now.
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Woj needs to make adjustments, eventually you’re going to need to beat good teams
We tried one today. Our defense looked a lot better when one of Howard or Rowsey sat, but of course the offense suffered, particularly that stretch in the frist half when Howard and Hauser both sat. No scorers on the floor. That is why I like true PGs who can get everyone involved when things are going south. I know Wojo doesn't like them, but Carter, for example, would have been helpful today.
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This is the biggest point and gets lost in the poor games by Rowsey and Heldt. We need him to be that third option.
not just sam to step up but everyone
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This is the biggest point and gets lost in the poor games by Rowsey and Heldt. We need him to be that third option.
The issue for Sam is that he needs ball movement, spacing and reversals for most of his opportunities. That didn't exist today. Little to no ball movement. Ball was sticking in Rowsey's hands way too much.
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According to Pomeroy, Theo is called for 13.5 fouls per 40 minutes. A different way to redshirt, I guess.
It's been frustrating. Any other aspects of his game can't even be evaluated much less progress made because he can't stay on the floor. It's not even "five extra fouls to give". Maybe one extra foul given and four added fouls committed when he fouls while trapping beyond the 3 point line or underneath when the ball is barely across half court.
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FIscher would never have made it to the finish and Manten had a career game against him last year. Heldt missed his layins today, contributed to the loss. Fischer had more than a few duds offensively and evry game defensively was a dud.
Rowseys needs to stop turning the ball over 6 times a game
Heltd it’s a backup, period. In over his head as a starter. To compare to Fisher is just stupid.
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Rowsey definitely struggled today, and as a senior you'd like to see him distribute more when he's not hitting shots himself. In his defense, though, when Markus was on the bench, no one else was stepping up to fill that gap. So that left us with few options on offense, and Rowsey had to try to create something, which is not exactly a strength of his.
Today also showed just how guard-dependant were going have to be all year. Our big are just not effective against real competition. Theo can't stay on the floor, and today seemed to have a pretty bad attitude on top of the poor play. Then Heldt squandered every opportunity he had. He made a few nice moves and got himself into some good positions, but my God, how did he struggle to finish on so many bunnies? Lots of work to do with this squad.
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When does the heat begin to rise under Wojo's ass? All his players, including Heldt and Rowsey. Maybe Wojo should be making power point presentations to the team, since he is good at that.
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Rowsey definitely struggled today, and as a senior you'd like to see him distribute more when he's not hitting shots himself. In his defense, though, when Markus was on the bench, no one else was stepping up to fill that gap. So that left us with few options on offense, and Rowsey had to try to create something, which is not exactly a strength of his.
Today also showed just how guard-dependant were going have to be all year. Our big are just not effective against real competition. Theo can't stay on the floor, and today seemed to have a pretty bad attitude on top of the poor play. Then Heldt squandered every opportunity he had. He made a few nice moves and got himself into some good positions, but my God, how did he struggle to finish on so many bunnies? Lots of work to do with this squad.
How are the other guys supposed to be involved when the ball is stuck in Rowsey's hands as he dribbles down the clock and then is forced to go one-on-one? He's playing a big part in limiting the options, especially when Howard is on the bench.
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I think of Matty’s Shots today only one was even over the rim.
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What more is there to say - Really discouraging to lose to a GA team that isn't that good.
Let's hope for a more spirited effort against VT.
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Bullmusk
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I hate to be negative about a kid who works hard and represents the program well but Heldt was very bad today. As stated in this thread, he's more suited to play 10-12 minutes per game.
Nothing more to add about Rowsey.
The third foul on Markus was huge and that is entirely on him. You have to have the awareness not to commit a stupid reaching foul with under a minute left in the half when you already have two. That obviously hurt us a lot in the 2nd half with him sitting.
The prayer of a 3 point shot at the end of the first half after we played great defense for the entire possession hurt as well.
Really liked what I saw from Cain today. His upside is off the charts.
Disappointing effort.
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When does the heat begin to rise under Wojo's ass? All his players, including Heldt and Rowsey. Maybe Wojo should be making power point presentations to the team, since he is good at that.
There's always next year...or well, if that doesn't turn out...there's the year after that, and if that fails, then there's the year after that..I think MU BB's slogan under Wojo instead of being "win everyday" should be "wait until next year". They can make different colored shirts for each year..How can you win everyday, when you can't even win home games??
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At least we aren't Bucky...dear lord is tOSU dismantling them at the Kohl Hole.
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Hear’s a can of worms four ya. I’d take Herro over any of our guards write now. Da 18 year old comes in second place, hey?
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Hear’s a can of worms four ya. I’d take Herro over any of our guards write now. Da 18 year old comes in second place, hey?
No.
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I hate to be negative about a kid who works hard and represents the program well but Heldt was very bad today. As stated in this thread, he's more suited to play 10-12 minutes per game.
Nothing more to add about Rowsey.
The third foul on Markus was huge and that is entirely on him. You have to have the awareness not to commit a stupid reaching foul with under a minute left in the half when you already have two. That obviously hurt us a lot in the 2nd half with him sitting.
The prayer of a 3 point shot at the end of the first half after we played great defense for the entire possession hurt as well.
Really liked what I saw from Cain today. His upside is off the charts.
Disappointing effort.
Agree with all of this except the last line.
"Effort" is not a synonym for "performance." We tried plenty hard today. Just didn't perform well enough.
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Agree with all of this except the last line.
"Effort" is not a synonym for "performance." We tried plenty hard today. Just didn't perform well enough.
That's fair. Wrong choice of words - I had no issues with the effort put forth and didn't mean it that way.
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There were some bright spots today. The stretch with 4/5 consecutive turnovers was the difference. Matt had some close ones roll out, Rowsey started off cold, and the foul trouble reduced out options.
Georgia was so much bigger and they hit a few circus shots, too. This isn't a great team, but i think they'll surprise us all.
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Georgia was just a bad matchup...isn't that the new saying now around here??
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Doc
You are that high on Herro?
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The kid can ball and isn’t a one trick pony. Granted his D is non-existent. Maybe it’s more disenchantment with the present corp of guards. BTW, Rowsey is just a punk. Either Wojo lacks the ability to evaluate talent and/or can’t develop it.
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Georgia was just a bad matchup...isn't that the knew saying now around here??
(https://i.amz.mshcdn.com/yhDKLG9bBKnezpVmoUz1nsEqEDc=/180x140/http%3A%2F%2Fmashable.com%2Fwp-content%2Fgallery%2F25-exhuastion-gifs-for-when-you-cant%2Fsupernatural-tired.gif)
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For MU to be any good all three of AR, M2N and SH have to play well. None of them were good enough for enough of the game today for us to get the win.
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4ever
If Rowsey was any other team than MU, I would hate him like Kelly Tripucka or David Rivers.
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He’ll look terrific at the Y in Saturday morning league.
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We just need a pure PG and a post scoring threat. A lot to ask but thats what is needed around all the shooters we have.
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When does the heat begin to rise under Wojo's ass? All his players, including Heldt and Rowsey. Maybe Wojo should be making power point presentations to the team, since he is good at that.
Say it, willie. You miss Buzz.
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I miss Buzz. Plenty not to like about him, but had us close to be national conversation for first time in decades.
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Bummer of a performance and result, but the truth is that we had a chance to win before the drought of the last few minutes.
My feelings about Rowsey this year remind me of how I felt about Carlino. If he’s on, then it’s incredible. If not, he’s just a chucker and turnover machine. And, Rowsey seems to often be in competition with Howard. If Howard seems hot, Rowsey doesn’t feed him, but tries to match him.
I’m sensing that Hauser is having a sophomore slump. Yes, he has his moments (especially his 30 point game), but mostly he’s been inconsistent and it feels like he’s not the reliable 3rd option that this team begs for. I agree he needs better spacing, and hope that Froling will bring that.
Gosh, QG would’ve been a great addition going into next year.
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Today's finish was was disappointing for sure. However, I remain confident we are going to have a very strong season . Our best player got in early foul trouble and we still hung in there against a quality team. Big 3 had 52 which is a short of the 60 mark that they are capable of and we need them to be at. Our coaching staff will work with Heldt to teach him the the necessary adjustments on his bunnies going forward, the good news is he actually had quite a few decent looks. I am more and more bullish on Greg Elliott each game. Today was a great learning experience for him. and it is clear he and Cain have great chemistry. When the guys watch the film of this game they will recognize the need to improve shot selection and ball rotation.
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Today's finish was was disappointing for sure. However, I remain confident we are going to have a very strong season . Our best player got in early foul trouble and we still hung in there against a quality team. Big 3 had 52 which is a short of the 60 mark that they are capable of and we need them to be at. Our coaching staff will work with Heldt to teach him the the necessary adjustments on his bunnies going forward, the good news is he actually had quite a few decent looks. I am more and more bullish on Greg Elliott each game. Today was a great learning experience for him. and it is clear he and Cain have great chemistry. When the guys watch the film of this game they will recognize the need to improve shot selection and ball rotation.
KPom is not so optimistic. Now projected to be 15-15 and 7-11.
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So, knot feelin’ it, ai na?
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4ever
If Rowsey was any other team than MU, I would hate him like Kelly Tripucka or David Rivers.
College Basketball’s AJ Pierzynski
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I miss Buzz. Plenty not to like about him, but had us close to be national conversation for first time in decades.
Get over it. He’s not here now.
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Seriously people. What exactly did you expect this year? A one dimensional team. If shots ain’t falling, they ain’t winning.
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Sultan
You really have become a nut on here. Trust me, I have moved on post Buzz. You are the crackpot that posts non stop on here and you are throwing out advice?
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Sultan
You really have become a nut on here. Trust me, I have moved on post Buzz. You are the crackpot that posts non stop on here and you are throwing out advice?
Keep whining Goose. It really is your only skill.
And really you’ve moved on? Lol. Whatever...
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Sultan
I have had more joy with MU ball to last me a lifetime. I love talking about the old days and hope everyone younger than me can have some lifelong memories.
Whine? I don’t care enough to whine. That said, you are a nut.
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Heldt. . .jeez, dude is running all over playing center field. He sets himself up poorly on the pick and roll defense by going at least a step too high every time with a narrow base. He can't change directions as quick. Not a problem with someone like Hauser. I can't remember seeing a 6'10" college dude running all over so much on defense ever.
Heldt. . . Dude gets good position, catches ball, then goes to a fade away hook on seems like every move. Not strong enough, plays too high, and the defensive body push makes him fade.
Heldt. .. I would have much more respect for him if he would just lay someone out. . Just one time. . On a dunk attempt. Instead it is always like a get out of the way shoulder turn. Even on help defense he seems to not even get his arms up much less jump and create a challenge. At least act like you are 6'10" and give someone something to worry about. Give me a couple of goon fouls to at least get guys thinking twice.
TJ. . . Man, it seems like his fouls are the stupidest fouls that aren't even involved in the play. The ball literally crosses half court and he gets some stupid push call. I think it was 34 seconds to pick his fourth foul up on this play.
GE / Cain. . . These guys bring energy and make shots that HC probably never could. They hustle. They block shots. They get steals. Again, entirely optimistic about the opportunity for these guys to grow with the available additional minutes.
AR. . He seems like one of those players that like to hold the ball too long just so he is "forced" to take that shot clock buzzer beating shot. Claiming he had no time. It is almost a guarantee with 9 seconds he will back out the dribble and keep the ball to jack it.
As far as the season, way too early to throw in the towel. At this point last year I was convinced Katin R sucked and was garbage. He was probably my favorite player at the end of the year. Addition of HF will help. Crossing my fingers that both or either GE and Cain keep developing and showing. Crossing my fingers TJ figures it out and stays on the court.
My biggest question is as GE develops do you keep one of the Smurfs on the bench and sub them in? It didn't seem to work for Rowsey today.
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I don’t care enough to whine.
Well, Goose, you did say you missed Buzz. And other posts you have made over the years lead me to believe that you do care a lot about MU hoops. And it's OK to care a lot. All of us do, no?
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MU82
I still enjoy talking ball on here. MU ball has been a big part of my life and I have loved it. Good or bad, I have lost my zest over past five years. Always will care and hope for the best.
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Well, Goose, you did say you missed Buzz.
If you're a Marquette fan who prefers excellence to ordinary it stands to reason you miss Buzz.
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If you're a Marquette fan who prefers excellence to ordinary it stands to reason you miss Buzz.
Well you could also look at Buzz’s final season at MU, the season he likely would have had after that one and what he’s done at VT and reason that Buzz isn’t necessarily a great example of ‘excellence’.
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Well you could also look at Buzz’s final season at MU, the season he likely would have had after that one and what he’s done at VT and reason that Buzz isn’t necessarily a great example of ‘excellence’.
Given VT's history, their conference and the state of the program when Buzz arrived in Blacksburg I'd say his results have been absolutely excellent.
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Given VT's history, their conference and the state of the program when Buzz arrived in Blacksburg I'd say his results have been absolutely excellent.
Absolutely excellent? Meh
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Absolutely excellent? Meh
VTech in the top half of the ACC and in the NCAA tourney = excellence (for them).
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Rowsey and Howard need to play together. It was stupid not to start Rowsey. It was even dumber trying to stagger Rowsey and Howard.
2. Live by the three. Die by the three
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Well you could also look at Buzz’s final season at MU, the season he likely would have had after that one and what he’s done at VT and reason that Buzz isn’t necessarily a great example of ‘excellence’.
? VT has outperformed marquette in recent years and heavily outperformed vt's historical records.
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VTech in the top half of the ACC and in the NCAA tourney = excellence (for them).
Ok well relative excellence is different... he hasn’t won a tournament game in 4 years and has a bubble team in year 4 of his new gig. He had a nice run at MU, but I think he probably reached his ceiling at MU too.
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Ok well relative excellence is different... he hasn’t won a tournament game in 4 years and has a bubble team in year 4 of his new gig. He had a nice run at MU, but I think he probably reached his ceiling at MU too.
I mean his ceiling was pretty damn high. Big east Champs (In the better division) and an elite 8. I'd take that any day.
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I mean his ceiling was pretty damn high. Big east Champs (In the better division) and an elite 8. I'd take that any day.
I’d definitely take it too, but I don’t see him continuing that type of success. The roster he left at MU and what he’s done at VTech give me doubts at how good of a coach he really is.
Getting a lackluster program to the NCAA doesn’t impress me. Plenty of guys have done it.
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I'm really concerned about Matt Heldt. Someone earlier said he missed six close in hook shots. He makes half of those MU wins. I know we lost by more than six, but they would have been chasing us at the end rather than us chasing them and fouling, if Matt shoots 50% on those. All of those shots that I saw were short or off the front rim. Usually that's fatigue or a player who isn't confident and is being too careful with his shot. MU needs for Matt to get his groove back and start sticking his share of shots.
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If you're a Marquette fan who prefers excellence to ordinary it stands to reason you miss Buzz.
Sorry Lenny, I have been an MU fan for over 60 years (I know, old man, get off my lawn), prefer excellence over ordinary, and do not miss the Lonesome cowboy. Leave him where he is at.
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Where was Sam? Sam seemed invisible in the second half. We need Sam to play more aggressively on offense for us to win. He's got the ability at 6'8" to score inside as well as outside. We need him to shoot more.
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If you're a Marquette fan who prefers excellence to ordinary it stands to reason you miss Buzz.
Nope. Not saying Wojo’s the guy but Buzz wasn’t the long term solution. Missing him is irrelevant and a waste of energy. And frankly a little pathetic.
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Where was Sam? Sam seemed invisible in the second half. We need Sam to play more aggressively on offense for us to win. He's got the ability at 6'8" to score inside as well as outside. We need him to shoot more.
Is he injured?
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Rowsey and Howard need to play together. It was stupid not to start Rowsey. It was even dumber trying to stagger Rowsey and Howard.
2. Live by the three. Die by the three
Not a huge Rowsey fan. Yeah I get it, he can shoot the ball and at times carry the team, but he is a ball hog, turns the ball over and takes terrible shots at bad times. He is the kind of player that would make the team as a whole better by his absence. It must suck for his team mates to work their asses off only to have this joker jack up a 30 footer. not good for the team concept, it's on Wojo to do something about it.
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Did Lenny and Goose get together last night and decide to go on an apathetic anti-Wojo campaign?
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I can miss the Buzzard and still be glad he's gone. The world he lived in changed, and while I don't totally agree on the reasoning, it was probably for the best. I can like Wojo and still be frustrated that he can't seem to teach defense or recruit guys that he can teach defense. I can agree this team is playing to expectations and still believe that our expectations in year 4 of a coaches' tenure should be higher. I can still be an MU fan and find myself struggling to justify hauling myself downtown for an 8pm Tuesday game against a cupcake, especially when our performance is questionable.
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What yesterday really revealed is the desperate need for a 2018 PG. I liked Buzz. I think he is a better coach than either Wojo or Crean. However, that ship has sailed. I just wanted Willie, one of the biggest Buzz haters around, to admit he misses Buzz. Just to amuse myself.
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PTM
What did I say anti Wojo? I said he is not on the hot seat.
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What yesterday really revealed is the desperate need for a 2018 PG. I liked Buzz. I think he is a better coach than either Wojo or Crean. However, that ship has sailed. I just wanted Willie, one of the biggest Buzz haters around, to admit he misses Buzz. Just to amuse myself.
But I did not admit I missed him. You will have to find other ways to abuse..er..excuse me..amuse yourself.
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PTM
What did I say anti Wojo? I said he is not on the hot seat.
While not directly, don't you think that expressing general disappointment in the program is dissatisfaction with Wojo?
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Why didn't Rowsey start, btw?
Was it a disciplinary reason?
Was it a motivational reason?
Other?
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PTM
As I have said for years, if I have dissatisfaction with the program it starts with the admin. I was fine with the Wojo hire and still not anti Wojo. I think the school gives off indication of wanting to be big time and we are far from big time.
I would stick with Wojo and see what happens next year. If he meets admin expectations he stays longer. Would love to see him succeed.
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Why didn't Rowsey start, btw?
Was it a disciplinary reason?
Was it a motivational reason?
Other?
No explicit statement, but Wojo's unhappiness was clear in statements to Homer and Mac. Made a statement that you play like you practice in relation to Rowsey's performance. Left the clear impression with me it was both disciplinary and motivational, as in he wasn't happy with the attitude at practice.
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I can miss the Buzzard and still be glad he's gone. The world he lived in changed, and while I don't totally agree on the reasoning, it was probably for the best. I can like Wojo and still be frustrated that he can't seem to teach defense or recruit guys that he can teach defense. I can agree this team is playing to expectations and still believe that our expectations in year 4 of a coaches' tenure should be higher. I can still be an MU fan and find myself struggling to justify hauling myself downtown for an 8pm Tuesday game against a cupcake, especially when our performance is questionable.
Calm, common-sense post, connie. Roughly captures how I feel.
I do still have MU games highlighted on my calendar and go out of my way to watch each one, preferably with other MU fans. My wife still likes to watch 'em, too. If we lived within 30-45 mins of Milwaukee, we'd have season tickets (pretty tough to do so living in NC).
I am optimistic for the future. Go Marquette!
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Why didn't Rowsey start, btw?
Was it a disciplinary reason?
Was it a motivational reason?
Other?
The official word was the most ready to play were starting. Read between the lines whatever you deem appropriate.
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PTM
As I have said for years, if I have dissatisfaction with the program it starts with the admin. I was fine with the Wojo hire and still not anti Wojo. I think the school gives off indication of wanting to be big time and we are far from big time.
I would stick with Wojo and see what happens next year. If he meets admin expectations he stays longer. Would love to see him succeed.
I respect this, thanks for clarifying.
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PTM
As I have said for years, if I have dissatisfaction with the program it starts with the admin. I was fine with the Wojo hire and still not anti Wojo. I think the school gives off indication of wanting to be big time and we are far from big time.
I would stick with Wojo and see what happens next year. If he meets admin expectations he stays longer. Would love to see him succeed.
I think this is the most rational outlook thus far. There's reasons for concern but also reasons for hope. Another couple years will crystallize which is the likely long term result of Wojo's tenure.
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Nope. Not saying Wojo’s the guy but Buzz wasn’t the long term solution. Missing him is irrelevant and a waste of energy. And frankly a little pathetic.
Thanks for the friendly advice. I'll try to be more relevant and less pathetic in the future. I will, however, continue to prefer 14-4 conference records, Big East championships, Sweet 16s and Elite 8s and an interesting character to mediocrity and coach speak - with or without your permission.
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Thanks for the friendly advice. I'll try to be more relevant and less pathetic in the future. I will, however, continue to prefer 14-4 conference records, Big East championships, Sweet 16s and Elite 8s and an interesting questionable character to mediocrity and coach speak - with or without your permission.
FIFY.
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Hear’s a can of worms four ya. I’d take Herro over any of our guards write now. Da 18 year old comes in second place, hey?
Well Big Daddy explained why that never was to be so I rather have Sam and Joey than just one player.
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I'm really concerned about Matt Heldt. Someone earlier said he missed six close in hook shots. He makes half of those MU wins. I know we lost by more than six, but they would have been chasing us at the end rather than us chasing them and fouling, if Matt shoots 50% on those. All of those shots that I saw were short or off the front rim. Usually that's fatigue or a player who isn't confident and is being too careful with his shot. MU needs for Matt to get his groove back and start sticking his share of shots.
Matt is not a major conference starting center. He does not have a groove to get back. He gets killed by any Top 150 program's center. A few more games and we get to see Harry. Any improvement at the 5 will help this team imensely.
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So what exactly is the problem with the current administration with respect to the basketball program?
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No explicit statement, but Wojo's unhappiness was clear in statements to Homer and Mac. Made a statement that you play like you practice in relation to Rowsey's performance. Left the clear impression with me it was both disciplinary and motivational, as in he wasn't happy with the attitude at practice.
Well that blew up in his face.
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Joey Hauser is our savior
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Joey Hauser is our savior
No he isn’t. Don’t be hyperbolic.
Hauser, Frolling, Morrow and Bailey, mixed with who is returning, will make MU more balanced and more formidable next year.
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Thanks for the friendly advice. I'll try to be more relevant and less pathetic in the future. I will, however, continue to prefer 14-4 conference records, Big East championships, Sweet 16s and Elite 8s and an interesting character to mediocrity and coach speak - with or without your permission.
+10000 Lenny! Some here are just pleased with mediocrity...it's good enough for them because Buzz is gone.
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I think this is the most rational outlook thus far. There's reasons for concern but also reasons for hope. Another couple years will crystallize which is the likely long term result of Wojo's tenure.
"Another couple of years" ??? Damn.
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"Another couple of years" ??? Damn.
I think CBB's five years to judge is pretty accurate. It's then that you'll see the coach after he's cleared out the old and has an established roster of his old players. So at this point, the next (literal) couple of years being 18-19 and 19-20.
But to know if a coach will be able to sustain success you probably need to look at 10+ years. Jay Wright didn't have Nova consistently in the top-15 until then. Mack, Cooley, and Willard still aren't there and all began the season with at least twice Wojo's tenure (now years 9, 7, 8 respectively). Our problem is no one has stuck around that long.
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I think CBB's five years to judge is pretty accurate. It's then that you'll see the coach after he's cleared out the old and has an established roster of his old players. So at this point, the next (literal) couple of years being 18-19 and 19-20.
But to know if a coach will be able to sustain success you probably need to look at 10+ years. Jay Wright didn't have Nova consistently in the top-15 until then. Mack, Cooley, and Willard still aren't there and all began the season with at least twice Wojo's tenure (now years 9, 7, 8 respectively). Our problem is no one has stuck around that long.
Yep, if a coach has success and leaves to go elsewhere, he is a traitor who reinforces our reputation as a stepping-stone school. If a coach doesn't succeed, we don't mind being "disloyal" and dumping his arse.
Note: I am not advocating keeping an ineffective coach. I would have dumped Dukiet and probably Majerus when MU did, and probably would have dumped Deane before MU did. I'm just saying that we fans want it both ways. We want a coach who will be forever "loyal" to us, but we pledge zero loyalty in return. Which makes us pretty much like every other fanbase in the country.
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MU82
Rick was fired? Sure on that?
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MU82
Rick was fired? Sure on that?
Nope. I misspoke. Rick left because he knew he needed something else at that time. In some ways, he fired himself so he could learn to love basketball again.
While looking into this after being challenged by you (and thanks for that, Goose, as I like being accurate), I came across this in a 2008 Sports Illustrated piece on Rick:
Of the 80 recruits Majerus signed with the Utes, only 33 survived to play as seniors. Nearly 59% of them transferred or otherwise left early, most unable or unwilling to meet Majerus's exacting standards or endure his mercurial, sometimes crude, even cruel behavior.
People think today's transfer situation is some never-seen-before deal. Majerus was at Utah from 1989-04, and 3 out of every 5 players he signed left with eligibility remaining!
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+10000 Lenny! Some here are just pleased with mediocrity...it's good enough for them because Buzz is gone.
No one here is pleased with mediocrity.
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Thanks for the friendly advice. I'll try to be more relevant and less pathetic in the future. I will, however, continue to prefer 14-4 conference records, Big East championships, Sweet 16s and Elite 8s and an interesting character to mediocrity and coach speak - with or without your permission.
Don’t sell that era short lenny here’s what you also get with that
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-met-marquette-sex-cases-20111028-story.html
http://ballinisahabit.blogspot.com/2011/04/vander-blue-facing-assault-and-battery.html?m=1
http://archive.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/146453905.html
http://archive.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/mu-assistant-fired-williams-suspended-for-recruiting-violations-kl6k8fi-167402655.html/
https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/nov/11/marquette-freshman-juan-anderson-suspended-3-games/
Not to mention the massive amounts of suspensions that were consistently handed out under buzz. Yeah it was great to have our name in the news all the time.
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So what exactly is the problem with the current administration with respect to the basketball program?
The current administration supports the program 100%. My sense is the frustration is with the pace of improvement, and that is a coaching issue more than an admin issue. Lovell is giving the program everything it needs/wants. It's up to Wojo and his staff to execute. Imo, the next two years will reveal if Wojo is the guy or not.
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I do not think anyone with a brain thinks the administration is not 100% behind the program and hoping for success. That said, hoping or wanting something does not always equal success. Obviously having a clean program is top priority and is closely followed by making money. They are two for two on those objectives. My rub comes with the inability to sustain success on the court.
Maybe they are happy enough achieving the main objectives and added court success is icing on the cake to them. If the pulse of Scoop is reflective of the casual fan, MU has nothing to worry about in losing the fan base. As has been noted many times, there are 5-7 OLD guys on here that are unrealistic on expectations for the program. The remaining posters on here are disappointed about the now and very excited about the future.
So, my gut tells me that the admin is happy enough at this time. Of course they want more success, but not the highest priority. Also, many on here believe the new building will give an attendance bump next year, so why worry over fannies in the seats?
I have no idea where the program will be in five minutes, let alone next year, but I do know the current rebuild is not very impressive in regards to on court success.
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1. Harry is going to have to be Bill F-ing Russel to salvage the mess that we call our interior defense.
2. Rowsey should be forbidden to drive. I know, I know, too often there is nothing else, but
3. Bad things happen when Rowsey drives.
4. Matt cannot make a contested shot.
5. The craziness of our 5 defending on 3-point land was exposed again today, as noted above.
6. The BE season will be ugly.
7. Forget the dance, forget the bubble. I hope they forget the NIT (and I remember when the NIT was something).
8. It’s a bridge year.
9. Looking for positives, nice to see Jamal and Greg gaining experience. Nice game for Markus, but he too needs to learn how to stay off the pine. Imagine if Haanif or Rowsey had his floater.
THIS. NUMBER 8 points to a very big problem with Wojo. Year 4=bridge year=BAD coaching.
Fire Wojo.
10. Four years in and kind of disappointed. There don’t seem to be many BE teams that we will be truly competitive with.
A lot of folks think we’ll be loaded next year - time will tell.
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Simply, I think 5-6 years is adequate time to determine if a coach should be fired, but it'll take 10-15 years before you know if that coach can have sustained success.
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The current administration supports the program 100%. My sense is the frustration is with the pace of improvement, and that is a coaching issue more than an admin issue. Lovell is giving the program everything it needs/wants. It's up to Wojo and his staff to execute. Imo, the next two years will reveal if Wojo is the guy or not.
Exactly. That is 100% my feeling as well.
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Thanks for the friendly advice. I'll try to be more relevant and less pathetic in the future. I will, however, continue to prefer 14-4 conference records, Big East championships, Sweet 16s and Elite 8s and an interesting character to mediocrity and coach speak - with or without your permission.
Amen. Nothing pathetic about wanting to win again.
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Amen. Nothing pathetic about wanting to win again.
Shift goalposts much?
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Shift goalposts much?
I don't follow. For someone to say it's pathetic to miss Buzz, is odd to me. Again, nothing pathetic about missing an era where we were always looked at as and played like winners.
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Simply, I think 5-6 years is adequate time to determine if a coach should be fired, but it'll take 10-15 years before you know if that coach can have sustained success.
You can tell when a coach is doing well, the offers for his services will be mentioned at every job that is open. That is what happened to Buzz, I do not think anybody
is looking at Wojo right now, not even as a Duke replacement. I really believe it is a hard job, not easy since the state only has one or two solid players in the state
almost every year and Chicago for some reason has not had the star power in the past. So you need someone who is dynamic enough like Al to bring in players from
out of state. MU is not a blue blood. Hope the new arena impresses the kids in 2019. If not, I do not know what else Wojo can do, maybe not the right person then.
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DCHoopster
It is not an easy job, but three guys were pretty successful in building, rebuilding or maintaining the program. Wojo is a big boy and did his homework before taking the gig. He “waited” a long time before taking HC job and he sure as hell better have known the challenges ahead.
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I don't follow. For someone to say it's pathetic to miss Buzz, is odd to me. Again, nothing pathetic about missing an era where we were always looked at as and played like winners.
Yet again you shift your words. You said “nothing pathetic about wanting to win again.”
No one doesn’t want to win.
And yeah it’s pathetic to miss a coach who left the University and trashed it on the way out. Have some pride.
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Yet again you shift your words. You said “nothing pathetic about wanting to win again.”
No one doesn’t want to win.
And yeah it’s pathetic to miss a coach who left the University and trashed it on the way out. Have some pride.
Like it or not, Buzz did more for the relevancy of the MU basketball program than almost any other coach we've had. I don't like the state he left the program in, but at the same time, he was being pressured to be a guy he didn't want to be. So it's no surprise he jumped ship. I'll take Buzz over Wojo any day.
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Like it or not, Buzz did more for the relevancy of the MU basketball program than almost any other coach we've had.
I like the Buzzard's results as much as the next fan, but you really need to slow your roll and count to ten before hitting "post."
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I like the Buzzard's results as much as the next fan, but you really need to slow your roll and count to ten before hitting "post."
What about Wojo so far would make me rethink my view?
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Like it or not, Buzz did more for the relevancy of the MU basketball program than almost any other coach we've had. I don't like the state he left the program in, but at the same time, he was being pressured to be a guy he didn't want to be. So it's no surprise he jumped ship. I'll take Buzz over Wojo any day.
Ahmed Hill averaging 17.8 ppg 4.8 boards and 1.4 assists per game.
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Ahmed Hill averaging 17.8 ppg 4.8 boards and 1.4 assists per game.
Impossible! I read on Scoop that Buzz can't coach up high school players.