Big 3 underachieved?

[Rocco]

Based on the way this years team is playing I believe the big 3 underachieved.  This years team is far less talented, yet their grit and determination have them in almost the same position as last year.  I realize the Big East isn't as good this year, but I think this year is proving that the Big 3 were overrated and probably underachievers.  I love James, McNeal, and Matthews, but they were a disappointment.

[ChicosBailBonds]

What is your criteria for achievement?  Let's start there.

[Rocco]

Eye test, and tournament results.  I just look at the fact that Acker, Cubillan, and DJO are in the place of James, McNeal and Matthews and the results are not that different.  I realize Butler and Lazar are better, but we don't have a blue collar guy like Burke this year.  To me last years team was far superior from a talent aspect but this years team plays with more heart, grit and chemistry.  Obviously they have to make the tournament and win a game to equal last years results......only time will tell.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Eye test, and tournament results.  I just look at the fact that Acker, Cubillan, and DJO are in the place of James, McNeal and Matthews and the results are not that different.  I realize Butler and Lazar are better, but we don't have a blue collar guy like Burke this year.  To me last years team was far superior from a talent aspect but this years team plays with more heart, grit and chemistry.  Obviously they have to make the tournament and win a game to equal last years results......only time will tell.

I've said this many times before, I think the NCAAs are a crap shoot and I put that into a separate category.  In other words, I don't put all my eggs into that basket.

I thought last year's team played with tremendous heart, was tough, good chemistry, etc.  I also think last year's team would destroy this year's team.

Considering what that class of Wes, Jerel and DJ did, I honestly don't think anyone can say they underachieved, not using the lens I use.

We were supposed to get destroyed in the Big East when we joined, but we didn't because those kids played their asses off and made sure we didn't.  Four straight 10 win Big East seasons, several pre-season tournament championships, four NCAA bids, a ton of top 25 victories.  They spent a good chunk of their career in the top 25 themselves.  Without their efforts in those first few years of the Big East, I shutter to think where we would be right now.

They proved we belonged in the best conference in America, and for that I'll always be grateful and applaud their achievements.  What they did in one game in March doesn't lead me to believe they underachieved.  Their entire body of work is what is important to me.

[Rocco]

I agree the NCAA's are a crap shoot.  Im talking about a straight comparison between the way they played last year compared to this year.  The results were not as drastically different last year as many would expect them to be.  The question is, is Buzz a better coach then he is given credit for?  Is this years team more talented than it gets credit for?  Is the Big 3 worse than they are given credit for?

[mu89]

i guess you can't really count last year's tournament run with James getting hurt and all. That really killed us and we went into the tournament playing somewhat inconsistent. We can only imagine what could have been if DJ didn't break his foot. I think we could've gone further than we did.

[Golden Avalanche]

Eye test, and tournament results.  I just look at the fact that Acker, Cubillan, and DJO are in the place of James, McNeal and Matthews and the results are not that different.  I realize Butler and Lazar are better, but we don't have a blue collar guy like Burke this year.  To me last years team was far superior from a talent aspect but this years team plays with more heart, grit and chemistry.  Obviously they have to make the tournament and win a game to equal last years results......only time will tell.

Those under-achieving "big 3" players were on their way to possibly winning the Big East conference if our four-year PG didn't get hurt against UConn. Now that I think of it, did they even play a season in which none of the three suffered a long term injury?

Compared to the three leading the guard line this season who are fighting for an NCAA berth and have shown an ability to choke on big leads and not perform in winning time, I think both sides will feel they win this argument.

[Rocco]

You can always play the what if game.  Yes the big 3 had injuries that cost them.  I can play "what if" this year.  If we have a healthy Otule, Cadougan and Mbao all season and Maymon stays I have a hard time believing we arent in contention for the Big East title right now.......

[Milkshakes]

the Big 3 were overrated and probably underachievers.  I love James, McNeal, and Matthews, but they were a disappointment.

A disappointment?  Wow!  Really?  I can think of no aspect where the years with the 3 Amigos were a disappointment except possibly their tournament record.  I would say that the three of them had amazing chemistry.  They stood up and held the program together during a difficult coaching transition.  You are way underestimating the level of play in the Big East this year as opposed to the last two.  

[ChicosBailBonds]

You can always play the what if game.  Yes the big 3 had injuries that cost them.  I can play "what if" this year.  If we have a healthy Otule, Cadougan and Mbao all season and Maymon stays I have a hard time believing we arent in contention for the Big East title right now.......

You really think Otule, Mbao and Cadougan get us contending for a Big East title right now?

[Rocco]

I said last years Big East was better.  

[Rocco]

You really think Otule, Mbao and Cadougan get us contending for a Big East title right now?

And Maymon, yes.  Look at all the close losses.  I think depth could have won 2 of the games that we lost, absolutely.  I think we could realistically be 10-4 with those guys all year.  I would say 10-4 at this point would be contention.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I actually think they overachieved. None of them were superior talents. The fact Matthews has made it in the NBA is a matter of circumstance and opportunity. McNeal was one of the worst decision makers I've seen at Marquette -- probably ever -- and James was just a horrendous shooter. These guys are near the top of our all time lists because they played the most games. The fact of the matter is, they had to play a ton as freshman because there was nobody else to play.

If you ask me, James is the most overrated player in Marquette history, with McNeal somewhere in the top 5. Matthews was solid and I'm not just saying that because he's continued his career. He was always the only one of the three that seemed to "get it."

I understand that they were decent guys and "good" players. But they were not great.

I also agree with Chicos. The NCAA is a crapshoot. You need look no further than our game against Holy Cross in 2003.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, this year's team is more enjoyable to watch because they make a fraction of the boneheaded plays that last year's team did. What did we have, 4 turnovers against UCONN this year? McNeal would have that many in a half.

[Rocco]

Weren't all 3 of them rated higher than anyone who is contributing right now?

[ChicosBailBonds]

And Maymon, yes.  Look at all the close losses.  I think depth could have won 2 of the games that we lost, absolutely.  I think we could realistically be 10-4 with those guys all year.  I would say 10-4 at this point would be contention.

Perhaps, but what you're missing is the inexperience....all those guys you mentioned are inexperienced.

The reason we are winning right now is because we don't make mistakes....credit that to the senior guards.  Under your plan, those kids don't play as much and instead we have a freshman at the point guard position (= more turnovers, more mistakes, etc). 

We're winning because we don't turn the ball over and we get good shots, especially from the perimeter, from guys that are really being forced to play.  I'm not sure this year we would gain by the addition via subtraction...no doubt JC, JM are better talented players, but I'll take the seniors most of the time.

[Rocco]

So you dont think depth is a flaw of this years team?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Weren't all 3 of them rated higher than anyone who is contributing right now?

Yes, but you're looking at it in isolation which you can't do. How would those three do this year in THIS Big East?  They would do BETTER than this team.  You're not comparing apples to apples.

[4everwarriors]

Let's just cut to the chase. Crean underachieved.

[Rocco]

Ok, its not worth debating with you because you think all these "kids" are fantastic.  Never overrated and never underrated.  Nevermind

[Rocco]

Let's just cut to the chase. Crean underachieved.

No one said that, don't start the Crean bashing, its pointless

[Norm]

Rocco,

If you think a healthy Mbao and Otule would have us challenging for a BE title this year, I want what you're smoking. Those two guys have shown nothing to suggest they can contribute quality minutes.

[Rocco]

It is the sum of Mbao, Otule, Cadougan and Maymon.  Please read all of the post not just pieces.  Thank you.

[Mu2323]

Too say they underachieved is absolutely rediculous. The only thing they didnt do was go far in the ncaa tournament. If you take away robert jackson from the 03 team and add him to last years team there is no doubt in my mind they win it all.

[Golden Avalanche]

You can always play the what if game.  Yes the big 3 had injuries that cost them.  I can play "what if" this year.  If we have a healthy Otule, Cadougan and Mbao all season and Maymon stays I have a hard time believing we arent in contention for the Big East title right now.......

You are unnatural carnal knowledgeing nuts if you truly believe this.

Besides that, how do you reconcile saying last year's team and this year's team are "almost in the same position" when there is a four-game difference in record after 14 games (12-2 v. 8-6) and one team was battling for the conference title (and lock for tourney) whereas the other team was battling not to choke big leads (and firmly on the bubble for tourney)?

Your marching powder must be some far out crap.

[GGGG]

Too say they underachieved is absolutely rediculous. The only thing they didnt do was go far in the ncaa tournament. If you take away robert jackson from the 03 team and add him to last years team there is no doubt in my mind they win it all.

"Win it all?"  Are you serious?  Last year's North Carolina team may have been the best college basketball team of the last decade.