Hydroxychloroquinine updates (and other potential treatments)

[MU82]

One day, it’ll just disappear

Like a miracle.

[forgetful]

I agree that it was a longshot, and I was as skeptical as anyone that it would work. That said, It was a potentially cheap cure, so the cost was a relative drop in the bucket. And the medication can still be used by people with lupus and such, so it isn’t like we spent money on nothing.

I am more concerned about the selection process for vaccines we’re backing. The last I saw, we were investing in five vaccines that don’t seem to be the best potential candidates. I think it is noteworthy that the two most promising candidates that we aren’t investing in happen to be from Chinese companies.

I hope I am proven wrong, but I think that choice will cost us a ton of money and put us further back in the vaccine line.

Agreed on all counts. I was extremely skeptical about HCQ. I sill supported at least looking into it. Also concerned about vaccine selection.

I'm concerned about how priorities are being selected in general.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Agreed on all counts. I was extremely skeptical about HCQ. I sill supported at least looking into it. Also concerned about vaccine selection.

I'm concerned about how priorities are being selected in general.

Yes, but looking at it, as in running trials to determine its efficacy, is one thing, touting it as "a game changer" without any valid evidence and burning federal monies and American lives is something else entirely IMO.

[GooooMarquette]

Mayo: Plasma from recovered patients safe for treating COVID-19

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/06/19/mayo-plasma-from-recovered-patients-safe-for-treating-covid19

Low rate of serious side effects, and possible but small beneficial effect.

[GooooMarquette]

Perhaps the final nail in the coffin for using HCQ to treat Covid?

In another setback for hydroxychloroquine, the National Institutes of Health halts a clinical trial.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/20/world/coronavirus-updates.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage#link-4e9788c5

The National Institutes of Health said on Saturday that it had stopped a clinical trial of hydroxychloroquine, the antimalarial drug that President Trump has promoted to treat the virus with scant evidence of its efficacy, because the drug was unlikely to benefit hospitalized patients.

The halting of the trial, which had aimed to enroll more than 500 patients, is the latest evidence that scientists are increasingly concluding that the promise of hydroxychloroquine has fallen far short of early expectations.

“In effect, the drug didn’t work,” said Dr. William Schaffner, a professor of infectious diseases at Vanderbilt University Medical Center. He said the medical community had been closely watching the trial because it was federally funded, placebo-controlled and run by respected investigators. “I think we can put this drug aside and now devote our attention to other potential treatments.”

[rocket surgeon]

Perhaps the final nail in the coffin for using HCQ to treat Covid?

In another setback for hydroxychloroquine, the National Institutes of Health halts a clinical trial.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/20/world/coronavirus-updates.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage#link-4e9788c5

The National Institutes of Health said on Saturday that it had stopped a clinical trial of hydroxychloroquine, the antimalarial drug that President Trump has promoted to treat the virus with scant evidence of its efficacy, because the drug was unlikely to benefit hospitalized patients.

The halting of the trial, which had aimed to enroll more than 500 patients, is the latest evidence that scientists are increasingly concluding that the promise of hydroxychloroquine has fallen far short of early expectations.

“In effect, the drug didn’t work,” said Dr. William Schaffner, a professor of infectious diseases at Vanderbilt University Medical Center. He said the medical community had been closely watching the trial because it was federally funded, placebo-controlled and run by respected investigators. “I think we can put this drug aside and now devote our attention to other potential treatments.”

  they just couldn't help themselves, but is it not possible to write anything sans potus being brought up in it??  if they would have left politics out of it, it may have had more credibility  and...the new york times cannot be trusted politically.   

i am not a fan of WHO by any means, but i did run into this
https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/03/who-resuming-hydroxychloroquine-study-for-covid-19/

   "The potential of hydroxychloroquine to treat Covid-19 has become a political flashpoint, with President Trump and his political allies cheering its use, despite no gold-standard clinical trials yet showing it is effective. The WHO’s trial could help settle the question of whether or not the drug works in Covid-19"

 just because a study by one group is halted doesn't mean other doctors, who have seen success rates, should not be able to prescribe it as they see fit.  whatever happened to the gov not getting in between a doctor's and a  patients health care decisions such as abortion
 

https://tucson.com/news/local/tucson-based-doctors-group-sues-feds-over-use-of-hydroxychloroquine/article_963f9a9c-f257-5c72-95a3-4a40ca2a0a5f.html
   
 

[Hards Alumni]

  they just couldn't help themselves, but is it not possible to write anything sans potus being brought up in it??  if they would have left politics out of it, it may have had more credibility  and...the new york times cannot be trusted politically.   

i am not a fan of WHO by any means, but i did run into this
https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/03/who-resuming-hydroxychloroquine-study-for-covid-19/

   "The potential of hydroxychloroquine to treat Covid-19 has become a political flashpoint, with President Trump and his political allies cheering its use, despite no gold-standard clinical trials yet showing it is effective. The WHO’s trial could help settle the question of whether or not the drug works in Covid-19"

 just because a study by one group is halted doesn't mean other doctors, who have seen success rates, should not be able to prescribe it as they see fit.  whatever happened to the gov not getting in between a doctor's and a  patients health care decisions such as abortion
 

https://tucson.com/news/local/tucson-based-doctors-group-sues-feds-over-use-of-hydroxychloroquine/article_963f9a9c-f257-5c72-95a3-4a40ca2a0a5f.html
   
 

That article is from over three weeks ago, fwiend.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

  they just couldn't help themselves, but is it not possible to write anything sans potus being brought up in it??  if they would have left politics out of it, it may have had more credibility  and...the new york times cannot be trusted politically.   

It was newsworthy that the President continued to mention it.  He did so repeatedly, enough that doctors were concerned that not enough would be around for people who needed it.

That's not politics.  That's news.  Sorry you can't understand the difference.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

[GooooMarquette]

It was newsworthy that the President continued to mention it.  He did so repeatedly, enough that doctors were concerned that not enough would be around for people who needed it.

That's not politics.  That's news.  Sorry you can't understand the difference.

Affirmative. There is nothing in the NYT article that is incorrect, irrelevant or out of context.

[MU82]

It was newsworthy that the President continued to mention it.  He did so repeatedly, enough that doctors were concerned that not enough would be around for people who needed it.

That's not politics.  That's news.  Sorry you can't understand the difference.

Nobody was even talking about hydroxy for weeks, including President Pandemic. Then he decided to take it and let everybody know about it (or, most likely, decided to lie about taking it). He was missing the attention, missing the chance to make something all about him.

[Hards Alumni]

Affirmative. There is nothing in the NYT article that is incorrect, irrelevant or out of context.

merely inconvenient.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

So the headline sounds promising for hydroxy...
Study finds hydroxychloroquine helped coronavirus patients survive better

...as do the first few paragraphs...
"A team at Henry Ford Health System in Southeast Michigan said Thursday its study of 2,541 hospitalized patients found that those given hydroxychloroquine were much less likely to die.

Dr. Marcus Zervos, division head of infectious disease for Henry Ford Health System, said 26% of those not given hydroxychloroquine died, compared to 13% of those who got the drug. The team looked back at everyone treated in the hospital system since the first patient in March."

...but then you get to this part:
"Researchers not involved with the study were critical. They noted that the Henry Ford team did not randomly treat patients but selected them for various treatments based on certain criteria.

"As the Henry Ford Health System became more experienced in treating patients with COVID-19, survival may have improved, regardless of the use of specific therapies," Dr. Todd Lee of the Royal Victoria Hospital in Montreal, Canada, and colleagues wrote in a commentary in the same journal.

"Finally, concomitant steroid use in patients receiving hydroxychloroquine was more than double the non-treated group. This is relevant considering the recent RECOVERY trial that showed a mortality benefit with dexamethasone." The steroid dexamethasone can reduce inflammation in seriously ill patients."

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Can you sciencesy types comment on this treatment?

https://www.evms.edu/media/evms_public/departments/internal_medicine/EVMS_Critical_Care_COVID-19_Protocol.pdf

[pbiflyer]

The use of steroids like dexamethasone is estimated/believed to reduce mortality by 35% for severe symptom patients who needed ventilators. The hospital reported 18.1% mortality overall, which means the theoretical 35% reduction via steroid therapy would take it to just under 12% mortality rate.

This pseudo-study claims HCQ treatment result in mortality of 13.5% after they cherry-picked patients by screening for heart conditions.

That's an inferior outcome.

[rocket surgeon]

gee, pretty quiet around here 'bout hydroxy.  inconvenient fact and hard to deny when something actually saves lives.  gotta love how it's still reluctantly reported.  on CNN for example.

"(CNN)A surprising new study found the controversial antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine helped patients better survive in the hospital. but the findings, like the federal government's use of the drug itself, were disputed

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/02/health/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-detroit-study/index.html

when can people just get past the politics and knock off the bs and listen to those who have been prescribing it like dr steven smith and his center for infectious diseases and urban health.  he has been reporting these results for a month or more

i've been steadfast on this from the beginning and no, i do not have a financial interest in it as someone previously mentioned, half in jest.  nor do i care that potus has touted it.  doc smith wasn't trying to boast or sensationalize his results.  he should be hailed for his courage, sticking to his convictions and standing by his results despite tremendous pressure from his "peers" or the "experts" who chastised him hard

[jesmu84]

Trolls gonna troll

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

gee, pretty quiet around here 'bout hydroxy.  inconvenient fact and hard to deny when something actually saves lives.  gotta love how it's still reluctantly reported.  on CNN for example.

"(CNN)A surprising new study found the controversial antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine helped patients better survive in the hospital. but the findings, like the federal government's use of the drug itself, were disputed

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/02/health/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-detroit-study/index.html

when can people just get past the politics and knock off the bs and listen to those who have been prescribing it like dr steven smith and his center for infectious diseases and urban health.  he has been reporting these results for a month or more

i've been steadfast on this from the beginning and no, i do not have a financial interest in it as someone previously mentioned, half in jest.  nor do i care that potus has touted it.  doc smith wasn't trying to boast or sensationalize his results.  he should be hailed for his courage, sticking to his convictions and standing by his results despite tremendous pressure from his "peers" or the "experts" who chastised him hard

I mean the results were literally disputed.

You look for things that don’t exist.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

gee, pretty quiet around here 'bout hydroxy.  inconvenient fact and hard to deny when something actually saves lives.  gotta love how it's still reluctantly reported.  on CNN for example.

"(CNN)A surprising new study found the controversial antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine helped patients better survive in the hospital. but the findings, like the federal government's use of the drug itself, were disputed

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/02/health/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-detroit-study/index.html

when can people just get past the politics and knock off the bs and listen to those who have been prescribing it like dr steven smith and his center for infectious diseases and urban health.  he has been reporting these results for a month or more

i've been steadfast on this from the beginning and no, i do not have a financial interest in it as someone previously mentioned, half in jest.  nor do i care that potus has touted it.  doc smith wasn't trying to boast or sensationalize his results.  he should be hailed for his courage, sticking to his convictions and standing by his results despite tremendous pressure from his "peers" or the "experts" who chastised him hard

Rocket we have improved treatment dramatically for Covid-19 and have a mountain of this stuff as a country. 

The answers to your questions lie with the docs who don’t use this despite the two facts above.  Not scoopers.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

gee, pretty quiet around here 'bout hydroxy.  inconvenient fact and hard to deny when something actually saves lives.  gotta love how it's still reluctantly reported.  on CNN for example.

"(CNN)A surprising new study found the controversial antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine helped patients better survive in the hospital. but the findings, like the federal government's use of the drug itself, were disputed

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/02/health/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-detroit-study/index.html

when can people just get past the politics and knock off the bs and listen to those who have been prescribing it like dr steven smith and his center for infectious diseases and urban health.  he has been reporting these results for a month or more

i've been steadfast on this from the beginning and no, i do not have a financial interest in it as someone previously mentioned, half in jest.  nor do i care that potus has touted it.  doc smith wasn't trying to boast or sensationalize his results.  he should be hailed for his courage, sticking to his convictions and standing by his results despite tremendous pressure from his "peers" or the "experts" who chastised him hard

"Healthcare professional" clueless again.

[forgetful]

gee, pretty quiet around here 'bout hydroxy.  inconvenient fact and hard to deny when something actually saves lives.  gotta love how it's still reluctantly reported.  on CNN for example.

"(CNN)A surprising new study found the controversial antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine helped patients better survive in the hospital. but the findings, like the federal government's use of the drug itself, were disputed

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/02/health/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-detroit-study/index.html

when can people just get past the politics and knock off the bs and listen to those who have been prescribing it like dr steven smith and his center for infectious diseases and urban health.  he has been reporting these results for a month or more

i've been steadfast on this from the beginning and no, i do not have a financial interest in it as someone previously mentioned, half in jest.  nor do i care that potus has touted it.  doc smith wasn't trying to boast or sensationalize his results.  he should be hailed for his courage, sticking to his convictions and standing by his results despite tremendous pressure from his "peers" or the "experts" who chastised him hard

I've been steadfast since day 1, that we should follow the science. The science here says HCQ has no effect as a Covid treatment. The WHO canceled the last of their HCQ studies just the other day, because controlled studies show no benefit.

As has widely been reported, this study was significantly flawed, and the results can simply be explained by the excluded data, and the difference in dexamethasone use between the two groups. Not to mention treatments were assigned to individuals based on their health, and degree of illness. That on its own, makes results of limited value.

We need to follow one thing and one thing only in dealing with COVID, the science/data.

[rocky_warrior]

gee, pretty quiet around here 'bout hydroxy.  inconvenient fact and hard to deny when something actually saves lives.  gotta love how it's still reluctantly reported.  on CNN for example.

Good to see you're still smoking the good stuff rocket.  At one point in time I think I asked if you had money to gain by taking it.  I also said (at the time) that if I was on my last breath I might try to get it.  My views have changed, I would no longer ask for it -ever.  Nor do I believe you have anything to gain financially from it. 

Nonetheless, for your own health, if you contract covid-19 I do hope you seek out better treatments than hydroxychloroquine.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

rocket must not have gotten the note that even the President has moved on at this point.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

rocket must not have gotten the note that even the President has moved on at this point.

I wonder if he even read the article, or did he just latch on to the parts that supported his predetermined belief?

More broadly, why would a healthcare system even promote the results of a so-called study where they:
-- cherry picked which patients to give HCQ
-- gave those patients a double dose of another drug that has been proven to work in other studies so its not even an apples-to-apples comparison
-- exclude the 10% of people that hadn't recovered and were still hospitalized

Why would they do this? What's in it for them to promote this?

[cheebs09]

rocket must not have gotten the note that even the President has moved on at this point.

Actually......

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1280328830218051584?s=21