Wojo Post Game (Comments on JJJ DNP)

[GGGG]

Sure - that's plausible. However, usually a player will bust their ass and grind - yet when they begin to feel that another guy is getting more rope/slack, it affects a player's buy-in and belief in their head coach.

Buzz said last year that during boot camp JJJ was the best as far as showing up, grinding, etc.  The competitive spirit is alive and well, and all is good at the beginning of a "marriage" between player and coach - then, at some point if the player feels they are busting their ass, performing relatively similarly to another player, yet see that player get more rope - it affects attitude.

Look, it is very simple.  Wojo is the coach.  JJJ is the player.  Wojo determines how and why players play.  If JJJ feels he is being treated unfair, he is free to go.

Yet another season of you insinuating the coach doesn't know what he is doing and doesn't know how to communicate with his players.  Last year it was Dawson.  This year its JJJ.

Not interested.

[NersEllenson]

Look, it is very simple.  Wojo is the coach.  JJJ is the player.  Wojo determines how and why players play.  If JJJ feels he is being treated unfair, he is free to go.

Yet another season of you insinuating the coach doesn't know what he is doing and doesn't know how to communicate with his players.  Last year it was Dawson.  This year its JJJ.

Not interested.

Personally, I don't like seeing Burton a Top 60 talent leaving the program.  Didn't like seeing McKay leave.  Dawson leave. Won't like seeing JJJ, a Top 40 talent leave the program.  Of course it will take 3-4 years to see if Wojo's plan/process work - but though Wojo had a GREAT first recruiting class - getting talent to MU has never been easy.  Running off some existing talent within the program due to perhaps not being malleable in my view isn't a good sign.

So yes, a coach determines how and why a player plays and have that power.  The player leverages their power when they leave the program/coach.

And btw - I'm not insinuating Wojo doesn't know what he is doing or doesn't know how to communicate with his players - I'm simply sharing the player's perspective.   Think it will be telling to see how things go starting Wednesday night - perhaps the benching leads to a conversation that needed to be had, for both JJJ and Wojo to get back on the same page.  Or it leads to a bigger divide between the player and coach.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Ners, is anything ever a player's fault for you? (Besides Derrick of course) Or is it always the coach's fault?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Sure - that's plausible. However, usually a player will bust their ass and grind - yet when they begin to feel that another guy is getting more rope/slack, it affects a player's buy-in and belief in their head coach.

Buzz said last year that during boot camp JJJ was the best as far as showing up, grinding, etc.  The competitive spirit is alive and well, and all is good at the beginning of a "marriage" between player and coach - then, at some point if the player feels they are busting their ass, performing relatively similarly to another player, yet see that player get more rope - it affects attitude.

It seems like you are traveling a great distance to find a scenario you like.

Wojo has straight up said: You have to practice hard in order to play.

JJJ can either practice hard, or he can ride the bench.

We can twist ourselves into all sorts of knots and try to examine JJJ's psychological state because Derrick Wilson gets too many minutes, or JJJ can just work a little harder, play a little better, and he can have all of the minutes he wants.

[GOO]

Ners is back.  Same old.  If this is how this board is going to be again, good, I can start to visit a lot less often.

All that matters is today and pleasing the players to keep them happy.  Too bad for the long term.
I think of Kennedy at DePaul as a coach that let the players have there way, keep the players happy and have a program that never lives up to expectations.

Gotta keep the standards high. I'd hate to be on a team where a coach tolerated and coddled lack of effort, showing up late, etc. 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Wojo determines how and why players play.

I actually disagree with this a little bit.

The players actually play a huge part in who plays. If (insert player) kicks ass in practice, always knows his assignments on the floor, and is productive in games, he's going to get minutes. Steve Taylor's Frosh year is a good example. He was good enough that he forced Buzz to find him more and more PT.

So, while I understand its seems like the HC is making all of the substitutions arbitrarily, the reality is that over the course of the season, the best players (in practice and in games) are going to get the most minutes.

[MU82]

I actually disagree with this a little bit.

The players actually play a huge part in who plays. If (insert player) kicks ass in practice, always knows his assignments on the floor, and is productive in games, he's going to get minutes. Steve Taylor's Frosh year is a good example. He was good enough that he forced Buzz to find him more and more PT.

So, while I understand its seems like the HC is making all of the substitutions arbitrarily, the reality is that over the course of the season, the best players (in practice and in games) are going to get the most minutes.

This is an outstanding observation.

As a middle-school coach, many players who at first didn't impress me eventually "forced" me to play them by their effort, desire, improvement, leadership, attention to detail, etc.

[tower912]

Exactly, 82.   When you start noticing that a player that you didn't think much of is consistently the first one back on defense, knows who he is guarding, understands where to go on offense, you start rewarding that.  I made an adjustment to one of the offensive sets just to get him a shot because of all of the hard work he is doing.  He isn't a good shooter yet, and catching the ball is an adventure, but I am going to reward his work.   On  this year's team, I haven't had any attitude problems, so nothing working in the other direction.

[NersEllenson]

Ners, is anything ever a player's fault for you? (Besides Derrick of course) Or is it always the coach's fault?

Fair question...and I'd ask the same back to you: Is it ever a coaches fault, or is it always the players?  You and many of the others I consistently disagreed with last year and this year generally always take the view that it is the players fault (other than Derrick's of course)?

With regard to the last two seasons, I call it the way I see it.  I've seen highly unproductive veterans NOT get benched for poor and awful play ON the floor, while seeing more talented, albeit younger players nailed to the bench for not apparently performing well enough in practice.

Personally my view on last year and this year is that you play the younger, more talented guys, who are the future of the program - let them get a lot of game experience, take their lumps - and as a coach give the player actual game data to say, "Look, based on your play in games, this is where we need to improve."  (You make that conclusion once the veterans are consistently proving they aren't a winning formula - as was the case last year..and will be again this year.)  I've said many times when a player is looking over their shoulder at the bench if they make a mistake, they play tight, play under pressure, and that does NOT lead to their best performance.  

[NersEllenson]

Once again, you haven't a clue what you are talking about.

FG%/3P%/TO per 40

Carlino  .406/.421/2.47
Derrick  .446/.304/1.51
JJJ        .426/.175/3.48

I don't have an issue with Carlino getting max minutes, btw.  Derrick has been obviously better this year than last and has had some nice moments - yet he isn't more talented than JJJ, nor is he a key piece of the future of the program.  The bigger point I've been making though is:  How has Duane Wilson been playing the last 6 weeks??

Do you feel Duane has been good?  Or even decent?  Has Duane NOT had maddening and frequent turnovers, ill advised shots, out of control play?  Yet has Duane generally been given 27+ minutes per game?

The point again is, if as a player you start to sense one guy gets a lot more rope to play through mistakes, than do you - it doesn't bode well for your attitude nor view of the coach.

[FartyEightHours]

We need more floor slapping out of jjj

[79Warrior]

Ners, is anything ever a player's fault for you? (Besides Derrick of course) Or is it always the coach's fault?

Not to mention his incessant rantings about "top 100 player rankings" as if that is that is the be all and end all for on court performance.

[connie]

I don't have an issue with Carlino getting max minutes, btw.  Derrick has been obviously better this year than last and has had some nice moments - yet he isn't more talented than JJJ, nor is he a key piece of the future of the program.  The bigger point I've been making though is:  How has Duane Wilson been playing the last 6 weeks??

Do you feel Duane has been good?  Or even decent?  Has Duane NOT had maddening and frequent turnovers, ill advised shots, out of control play?  Yet has Duane generally been given 27+ minutes per game?

The point again is, if as a player you start to sense one guy gets a lot more rope to play through mistakes, than do you - it doesn't bode well for your attitude nor view of the coach.

Even with a -0-  for Xavier JJJ is at 21.6 mpg.  I guess I don't see this as "a lot more rope" not knowing any of the other multiple possible factors that lead to the decision on playing time in general or this game in particular.  

[Loose Cannon]

This is an outstanding observation.

As a middle-school coach, many players who at first didn't impress me eventually "forced" me to play them by their effort, desire, improvement, leadership, attention to detail, etc.

I think your looking at a prime example when Wojo did the same to Coach k

[MerrittsMustache]

Even with a -0-  for Xavier JJJ is at 21.6 mpg.  I guess I don't see this as "a lot more rope" not knowing any of the other multiple possible factors that lead to the decision on playing time in general or this game in particular.  

Duane has 28 TOs on the season compared to JJJ's 30, despite Duane playing 123 more minutes. In BE play, Duane has turned it over 9 times in 139 minutes compared to 10 times in 74 minutes for JJJ.

If Player A is shooting the ball 29% from the floor and 0% from 3 in conference play, while turning the ball over at a TO Rate of 21.6%, PLUS he's not focused during practice, it's tough to make a case for him seeing more minutes, IMO.

[MU82]

Exactly, 82.   When you start noticing that a player that you didn't think much of is consistently the first one back on defense, knows who he is guarding, understands where to go on offense, you start rewarding that.  I made an adjustment to one of the offensive sets just to get him a shot because of all of the hard work he is doing.  He isn't a good shooter yet, and catching the ball is an adventure, but I am going to reward his work.   On  this year's team, I haven't had any attitude problems, so nothing working in the other direction.

Yep. I mean, I doubt Al was especially impressed by Neary's athletic ability or Scout ranking. (Yes, I know there were no Scout rankings back then.)

[Nukem2]

Yep. I mean, I doubt Al was especially impressed by Neary's athletic ability or Scout ranking. (Yes, I know there were no Scout rankings back then.)

Unfortunately, Neary was not good in a zone and MU played a lot of zone that season since the team was not that quick.  When MU went to the zone in the championship game, out went Neary.  Al finally figured that out.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Personally my view on last year and this year is that you play the younger, more talented guys, who are the future of the program - let them get a lot of game experience, take their lumps - and as a coach give the player actual game data to say, "Look, based on your play in games, this is where we need to improve."

Also, just to address this, College coaches have a limited lifespan. They don't often get long rebuilding periods, so they are trying to win, and rebuild at the same time.

AND, once you get on that "let's play the younger guys" carrousel, when do you get off? Play JJJ this season because he is the future? Great, well, JJJ is going to be on the bench next year because Cheatam is the future. AND Cheatam will be on the bench in 2017, because (insert higher rated recruit) will be the future.

I'd guess that the vast majority of coaches push their players to be the best they can be, and play the best players the most minutes... but maybe I'm crazy.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

I don't have an issue with Carlino getting max minutes, btw.  Derrick has been obviously better this year than last and has had some nice moments - yet he isn't more talented than JJJ, nor is he a key piece of the future of the program.  The bigger point I've been making though is:  How has Duane Wilson been playing the last 6 weeks??

Do you feel Duane has been good?  Or even decent?  Has Duane NOT had maddening and frequent turnovers, ill advised shots, out of control play?  Yet has Duane generally been given 27+ minutes per game?

Ah, the old Gish Gallop from you again.  So now it isn't about Derrick or Carlino, it's really about Duane?  And JJJ shouldn't sit for not doing what is expected of him because he is better than Duane?

Ok, Big East play:

FG%/3P%/TO per 40

Duane  .364/.286/2.79
JJJ       .290/.000/5.41

Once again, your narrative has nothing to do with reality. I look forward to your next moving of the goalposts.

[tower912]

The next step in the narrative will be that JJJ's numbers are bad because (A) Wojo doesn't understand him, (B) Wojo is only playing player who have ingratiated themselves to him, (C) It doesn't matter because JJJ had that one good half in that one game that one time. 

[MerrittsMustache]

The next step in the narrative will be that JJJ's numbers are bad because (A) Wojo doesn't understand him, (B) Wojo is only playing player who have ingratiated themselves to him, (C) It doesn't matter because JJJ had that one good half in that one game that one time. 

I would have gone with...But JJJ is constantly looking over his shoulder to see if he's getting hooked and/or JJJ only gets short runs so it's impossible for him to contribute.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

The next step in the narrative will be that JJJ's numbers are bad because (A) Wojo doesn't understand him, (B) Wojo is only playing player who have ingratiated themselves to him, (C) It doesn't matter because JJJ had that one good half in that one game that one time.  

How can you expect JJJ to play well when he's got such a short leash?

If you've ever played hoops at a high level, you know it's impossible to play well when you are constantly afraid of getting pulled. LOL. Some of you guys just don't know what it's like.

JJJ needs to play 40 minutes per game. Period.  

Let the kid play, and he might surprise you.

[connie]

The next step in the narrative will be that JJJ's numbers are bad because (A) Wojo doesn't understand him, (B) Wojo is only playing player who have ingratiated themselves to him, (C) It doesn't matter because JJJ had that one good half in that one game that one time. 

You know you can't get into the flow of the game without getting x minutes at a time.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

How can you expect JJJ to play well when he's got such a short leash?

If you've ever played hoops at a high level, you know it's impossible to play well when you are constantly afraid of getting pulled. LOL. Some of you guys just don't know what it's like.

JJJ needs to play 40 minutes per game. Period.  

Let the kid play, and he might surprise you.

Magic Dawson might be gone, but thankfully we still have JaJuan Jordan.

[tower912]

It's Derrick's fault.    Flooding?   Derrick's fault.   Earthquakes?    Derrick's fault.   Terrorism?   Buzz and Wojo falling for Derrick's sycophantic practice habits.    Male pattern baldness?   The fool's gold of knowing your assignment, playing defense, protecting the ball, being a leader.   The Packer's collapse against Seattle?   Derrick's fault.    It was Derrick that picked up the flag during the Dallas/Detroit game.   Derrick was on the grassy knoll in Dallas.    The 25 year premature premonition of Derrick's presence drove Dahmer insane.