Author Topic: Buzz .. 20th best Coach..? (Read 19606 times)

mu_hilltopper · « **on:** July 31, 2012, 09:50:02 AM »

Buzz comes in at #20. Discuss.

http://www.athlonsports.com/college-basketball/ranking-nations-top-college-basketball-coaches

GGGG · « **Reply #1 on:** July 31, 2012, 09:52:52 AM »

Anything that says that Bo Ryan is better than Jim Calhoun...or Mike Montgomery is better than Buzz Williams....is extremely suspect.

Blue Horseshoe · « **Reply #2 on:** July 31, 2012, 09:55:32 AM »

When I saw that Tom Izzo was ranked number one I burst out laughing. for a split second I was irate, then realized this ranking system is flawed and not worth my time.

My favorite part was this quote:
"Michigan State has continued a run of 15 consecutive NCAA Tournaments despite producing only one lottery pick since 2001 and no first round picks since 2006."

Way to quantify lack of NBA draft success as your selling point. Lack of actual NBA talent is an even worse issue.

axaguy · « **Reply #3 on:** July 31, 2012, 10:18:38 AM »

Way to quantify lack of NBA draft success as your selling point. Lack of actual NBA talent is an even worse issue.

You just don't get it!! The comment means he's done quite well with players NOT rated as future NBA guys or high draft choices. It is a compliment to his coaching and ability to get the guys to play together. Kentucky and Ohio State aught to be winning titles and advancing far based on your analysis, but good and great college players don't always make great NBA guys and great NBA players may not be on winning teams in college.
It is still a team game and Izzo's teams have done well against teams with more highly rated personnel.

GGGG · « **Reply #4 on:** July 31, 2012, 10:24:17 AM »

Yeah, I think Izzo is a damn good coach. Better than Coach K? I don't think so, but I would be hard pressed to name more than one better than him.

Canned Goods n Ammo · « **Reply #5 on:** July 31, 2012, 10:29:40 AM »

I think NBA draft is an awful way to evaluate college talent. There are a laundry list of fantastic college players who don't play in the NBA. Our own Jerel McNeal is a prime example.

LAZER · « **Reply #6 on:** July 31, 2012, 10:30:58 AM »

Quote from: axaguy on July 31, 2012, 10:18:38 AM

Way to quantify lack of NBA draft success as your selling point. Lack of actual NBA talent is an even worse issue.

You just don't get it!! The comment means he's done quite well with players NOT rated as future NBA guys or high draft choices. It is a compliment to his coaching and ability to get the guys to play together. Kentucky and Ohio State aught to be winning titles and advancing far based on your analysis, but good and great college players don't always make great NBA guys and great NBA players may not be on winning teams in college.
It is still a team game and Izzo's teams have done well against teams with more highly rated personnel.

Izzo has had plenty of top rated talent to work with. However, his inability to get guys into the NBA I think will start to take a toll on recruiting. Calipari should be #1

Hards Alumni · « **Reply #7 on:** July 31, 2012, 10:35:05 AM »

Quote from: LAZER on July 31, 2012, 10:30:58 AM

Izzo has had plenty of top rated talent to work with. However, his inability to get guys into the NBA I think will start to take a toll on recruiting. Calipari should be #1

We aren't talking about the best salesmen. We are talking about coaches. As far as I am concerned, it should be Tom Izzo #1, and Coach K #2.

Blue Horseshoe · « **Reply #8 on:** July 31, 2012, 10:35:08 AM »

The real issue with this list is that it feeds into a bigger problem... the false NCAA narrative that college coaches (mainly football & basketball) are "teachers" first. These sacred cows mold their players into strong young men. You know, by "doing it the right way", putting the classroom and academics first.

Blue Horseshoe · « **Reply #9 on:** July 31, 2012, 10:44:39 AM »

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on July 31, 2012, 10:35:05 AM

We aren't talking about the best salesmen. We are talking about coaches. As far as I am concerned, it should be Tom Izzo #1, and Coach K #2.

I'm talking about coaches doing their actual job...winning.

Pakuni · « **Reply #10 on:** July 31, 2012, 10:49:47 AM »

Quote from: LAZER on July 31, 2012, 10:30:58 AM

Izzo has had plenty of top rated talent to work with. However, his inability to get guys into the NBA I think will start to take a toll on recruiting. Calipari should be #1

Izzo's had 10 McDonald's AAs in 17 seasons. Lots of talent, sure, but nothing close to the likes of UNC, Duke, Kansas, Kentucky and UCLA. Even Texas and Ohio State have had several more.
That said, has any team been to more Final Fours over the past 15 years?

LAZER · « **Reply #11 on:** July 31, 2012, 10:51:43 AM »

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on July 31, 2012, 10:35:05 AM

We aren't talking about the best salesmen. We are talking about coaches. As far as I am concerned, it should be Tom Izzo #1, and Coach K #2.

If starting tomorrow, I had my choice of a coach to run Marquette's program, based on nothing but results...it's Calipari, and I don't think there's a close second. Recruiting is at least half the battle in NCAA hoops and Cal is an underrated in game coach in addition. He gets the best players and he gets them to buy in and play, I think he's an easy number 1.

frozena pizza · « **Reply #12 on:** July 31, 2012, 11:08:48 AM »

The intro says that they take into account all aspects of the job, including recruiting. If that's the case Calipari has to be #1 right now.

I think Buzz could probably be ranked ahead of a few people, like John Beilein and Mike Montgomery. Then again I'm not so sure I'd rank him ahead of Calhoun, Brey or Painter.

BrewCity83 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 31, 2012, 11:14:23 AM »

I can't believe that this list has been posted here for over an hour and nobody has mentioned that Crean is rated above Buzz.

Blue Horseshoe · « **Reply #14 on:** July 31, 2012, 11:24:17 AM »

Quote from: BrewCity BallCrusher on July 31, 2012, 11:14:23 AM

I can't believe that this list has been posted here for over an hour and nobody has mentioned that Crean is rated above Buzz.

Based on credentials, I don't see anything wrong with that.

RJax55 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 31, 2012, 11:24:36 AM »

Quote from: LAZER on July 31, 2012, 10:51:43 AM

If starting tomorrow, I had my choice of a coach to run Marquette's program, based on nothing but results...it's Calipari, and I don't think there's a close second. Recruiting is at least half the battle in NCAA hoops and Cal is an underrated in game coach in addition. He gets the best players and he gets them to buy in and play, I think he's an easy number 1.

You're missing a major piece of the puzzle regarding Cal... Having your school's wins, tournament success and championships vacated due to NCAA violations. Happened at UMass and Memphis, and I have no doubt that it will happen at Kentucky as well. Oh, and when those sanctions drop, I can guarantee you that Cal will be long gone from Lexington.

RJax55 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 31, 2012, 11:25:50 AM »

TallTitan34 · « **Reply #17 on:** July 31, 2012, 11:27:03 AM »

I have no problem with Izzo at one.

Blue Horseshoe · « **Reply #18 on:** July 31, 2012, 11:29:53 AM »

Quote from: RJax55 on July 31, 2012, 11:24:36 AM

You're missing a major piece of the puzzle regarding Cal... Having your school's wins, tournament success and championships vacated due to NCAA violations. Happened at UMass and Memphis, and I have no doubt that it will happen at Kentucky as well. Oh, and when those sanctions drop, I can guarantee you that Cal will be long gone from Lexington.

I don't care about vacated wins. Give me NBA talent.

LAZER · « **Reply #19 on:** July 31, 2012, 11:36:32 AM »

Quote from: RJax55 on July 31, 2012, 11:24:36 AM

You're missing a major piece of the puzzle regarding Cal... Having your school's wins, tournament success and championships vacated due to NCAA violations. Happened at UMass and Memphis, and I have no doubt that it will happen at Kentucky as well. Oh, and when those sanctions drop, I can guarantee you that Cal will be long gone from Lexington.

That's why I said "based on nothing but results" and also, I don't think this piece used integrity as a criteria.

LAZER · « **Reply #20 on:** July 31, 2012, 11:38:23 AM »

Quote from: frozena pizza on July 31, 2012, 11:08:48 AM

The intro says that they take into account all aspects of the job, including recruiting. If that's the case Calipari has to be #1 right now.

I think Buzz could probably be ranked ahead of a few people, like John Beilein and Mike Montgomery. Then again I'm not so sure I'd rank him ahead of Calhoun, Brey or Painter.

I'd definitely put him ahead of Brey, Painter, and Montgomery. Not Calhoun and prob not Beilein.

GGGG · « **Reply #21 on:** July 31, 2012, 11:39:26 AM »

Quote from: Blue Horseshoe on July 31, 2012, 11:29:53 AM

I don't care about vacated wins. Give me NBA talent.

Well, I care quite a bit about vacated wins. And I do understand that some of the problems weren't necessarily his direct fault, but I wouldn't want Coach Cal at Marquette for anything.

4everwarriors · « **Reply #22 on:** July 31, 2012, 11:49:11 AM »

Quote from: LAZER on July 31, 2012, 10:30:58 AM

Izzo has had plenty of top rated talent to work with. However, his inability to get guys into the NBA I think will start to take a toll on recruiting. Calipari should be #1

Doesn't Izzo have the same NBA connections Crean has?

brewcity77 · « **Reply #23 on:** July 31, 2012, 11:49:24 AM »

This article would have fit in just as well on Bleacher Report, arguably even better. So a coach with zero Final Fours is in the top-ten and a coach with two NCAA appearances and fewer than 100 wins is in the top-12, but a coach with two Final Fours at different schools and over 600 wins can't crack the top-15 and a coach with three national titles isn't in the top-20?

Dumb with a capital D. Nice to see Buzz get some acclaim, but this article is Bleacher Report quality, and Athlon should be embarrassed for publishing it, even on their website.

CAGASS24 · « **Reply #24 on:** July 31, 2012, 12:08:46 PM »

I thought one aspect of the ranking was also to point out career trajectory - i.e. a newcomer with some solid success might be placed over an oldtimer with significant success who is at the end of his game....might explain why he's got Calhoun on the back side. Despite winning the championship the last year, to me it seems he's gonna be out of the game in 1-2 years and this guy might have been reflecting that a bit. If you want a "ranking" of coaches that simply looks at wins and championships, you really don't need a list like this guy put together, just go look at the current active coaching record books - so, its not

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Author Topic: Buzz .. 20th best Coach..? (Read 19606 times)