Free Throws Again

[MU_Iceman]

My opinion has always been that the BEST time to practice free throws is in the middle to end portion of practice, when the guys are fatigued, breathing heavy, etc...coaches blows the whistles in the middle of a drill and send players to the line (the team runs if they can't hit their ft's)...

Thats how it happens in a game...quick, abrubt, whistle blows, you're sent to the line...

Buzz NEEDS to start doing something to that effect or the guys will continue to struggle down the stretch.

Yesterday was about as frustrating a finish as I've seen in years for MU...

[ATL MU Warrior]

My opinion has always been that the BEST time to practice free throws is in the middle to end portion of practice, when the guys are fatigued, breathing heavy, etc...coaches blows the whistles in the middle of a drill and send players to the line (the team runs if they can't hit their ft's)...

Thats how it happens in a game...quick, abrubt, whistle blows, you're sent to the line...

Buzz NEEDS to start doing something to that effect or the guys will continue to struggle down the stretch.

Yesterday was about as frustrating a finish as I've seen in years for MU...

Give us all a break...  Are you really saying that this grade school practice technique -- conducted during official practice time -- would have enabled DJO or Butler to hit their free throws at the end of the game?  Is that all it would take?  Then why does anybody ever miss a crucial free throw in crunch time situations?  Because I guarantee you that these kids have been doing some variation of your proposed "solution" ever since they started playing organized basketball. 

I absoultYesterday was frustrating...very frustrating.  But to think that you've got some solution to the problem that you learned in middle school is absurd. 

[ATL MU Warrior]

Give us all a break...  Are you really saying that this grade school practice technique -- conducted during official practice time -- would have enabled DJO or Butler to hit their free throws at the end of the game?  Is that all it would take?  Then why does anybody ever miss a crucial free throw in crunch time situations?  Because I guarantee you that these kids have been doing some variation of your proposed "solution" ever since they started playing organized basketball. 

Yesterday was frustrating...very frustrating.  But to think that you've got some solution to the problem that you learned in middle school is absurd. 

fixed

[MU_Iceman]

Give us all a break...  Are you really saying that this grade school practice technique -- conducted during official practice time -- would have enabled DJO or Butler to hit their free throws at the end of the game?  Is that all it would take?  Then why does anybody ever miss a crucial free throw in crunch time situations?  Because I guarantee you that these kids have been doing some variation of your proposed "solution" ever since they started playing organized basketball. 

I absoultYesterday was frustrating...very frustrating.  But to think that you've got some solution to the problem that you learned in middle school is absurd. 

Wow, someone is a little cranky today...I never said or implied that they would have made their free throws, but the fact is that in both this game AND the FSU game the commentators who, sorry, know far more than you or I do about any of this, implied that MU was gassed.  Its important to practice free throws in as close to game conditions as possible (ie. gassed) not just on their free time...

And that "middle school drill" as you called it, comes from something i was taught years ago by two men (a coach and also my father) both of which PLAYED D1 basketball (again, people more educated in the matter than you or me)...all I'm saying is it can't hurt to try...

But you're right, god forbid people express their opinions on a blog site...

[RawdogDX]

Wow, someone is a little cranky today...I never said or implied that they would have made their free throws, but the fact is that in both this game AND the FSU game the commentators who, sorry, know far more than you or I do about any of this, implied that MU was gassed.  Its important to practice free throws in as close to game conditions as possible (ie. gassed) not just on their free time...

And that "middle school drill" as you called it, comes from something i was taught years ago by two men (a coach and also my father) both of which PLAYED D1 basketball (again, people more educated in the matter than you or me)...all I'm saying is it can't hurt to try...

Not disagreeing in general but take issue with the idea that because someone went into sports broadcasting they automatically know more about OUR team than everyone who comes to this site.

Or that someone's dad knows more about coaching than everyone on this site just because he played D1.  Plenty of smart/well informed people on here.

[Jay Bee]

...all I'm saying is it can't hurt to try...

  No, that's not all you were saying.  You said, "Buzz NEEDS to start doing something to that effect or the guys will continue to struggle down the stretch."

Including capitalizing NEEDS.  I completely disagree with you on that opinion and believe your assumption that commentators on TV, your dad, and a coach are people more educated than "you or me" (by me you may have meant ATL MU Warrior, but it appeared you meant people posting on this board in general) is silly at best.

[NersEllenson]

I don't think one can absolve the coach 100% in these situations. It is incumbent on the coach to provide the proper motivation so the players have confidence. Either that wasn't done, or it wasn't effective enough.  The coach has to take at least some of the blame for that.  It wasn't as if our guys looked confident and just missed a shot.  They didn't look like they believed they could win.

We don't know what Buzz said in the huddle--Did he talk about setting up quickly on defense after a miss?  That would represent a huge coaching mistake--any psych major would tell you that the language that you use in those situations is  "After Jimmy makes his 2nd shot . . . "     

I also don't buy that these are "young" or "inexperienced" players--Butler is half way through his junior year, and has been in enough close game situations to understand what is going on.  DJO is halfway through his sophomore year.  The reason you bring on a Juco is so you don't have to go through freshman jitters.  If we bring on Jucos who have to play like freshmen, we might as well just bring on freshmen.


Th

There are so many things wrong with this entire statement, I ask myself if the author is serious??  Speculating that Buzz didn't use the right pschyology? Blaming Buzz for the players not looking confident at the line?  The reason you bring in a JUCO is to avoid having to deal with freshman jitters?  Seriously??  JUCO's are brought in for 2 main reasons:  To balanace recruiting classes, and secondly tbecause they are talented players.  Period.  Not because a team gets to "avoid freshman jitters."  That was DJO's first major road game in his MU career, outside of WWisconsin...

[ChicosBailBonds]

Not disagreeing in general but take issue with the idea that because someone went into sports broadcasting they automatically know more about OUR team than everyone who comes to this site.

Or that someone's dad knows more about coaching than everyone on this site just because he played D1.  Plenty of smart/well informed people on here.

Bob Wenzel, one of the broadcasters last night, was the head coach at Rutgers, Jacksonville University...he led both schools to the NCAA Tournament (as well as NIT appearances).  He was also a guard for Rutgers in his playing days.   

In addition, an assistant at Duke, Utah and the New Jersey Nets.

[Jay Bee]

Bob Wenzel, one of the broadcasters last night, was the head coach at Rutgers, Jacksonville University...he led both schools to the NCAA Tournament (as well as NIT appearances).  He was also a guard for Rutgers in his playing days.   

In addition, an assistant at Duke, Utah and the New Jersey Nets.

  Completely irrelevant.  Discuss the background of all broadcasters or discuss none.

[79Warrior]

Face it!!! We blew a 5 point lead with 46 seconds to play. They scored 6 points in that time--we scored none. We missed the front end of two bonuses--DJO and Butler. We played poor defense.

How is it they could score 6 and we none. It was a blown game, and you hang those on coaching. Huggins must have known more than Buzz in this one. Hate Huggins, but his team got the job done and ours caved.

FT's were costly. If we are not practicing them--we should.

If you think practice free throws are the same as in game crunch time free throwsyou are nuts. Pressure creates a whole different situation.

[ChicosBailBonds]

  Completely irrelevant.  Discuss the background of all broadcasters or discuss none.

So a former DI coach and player, and a paid professional that does on average about 4 to 5 DI basketball games per week is not qualified to give an opinion on this matter?

Perhaps I'm not understanding you.

[Jay Bee]

So a former DI coach and player, and a paid professional that does on average about 4 to 5 DI basketball games per week is not qualified to give an opinion on this matter?

Perhaps I'm not understanding you.

  Your question has nothing to do with the discussion.  You were replying to, "Not disagreeing in general but take issue with the idea that because someone went into sports broadcasting they automatically know more about OUR team than everyone who comes to this site."

  How does one guys credentials have anything to do with everyone that goes into sports broadcasting?  It doesn't.  

edit:  BTW - I don't believe he does an average of 4.5 games per week.  You're just making numbers up.  Maybe I missed it - did someone say, "commentators are not qualified to give an opinion on Marquette hoops"?  I thought all that was said is that being a commentator doesn't mean you're far more knowledgeable about MU hoops than any person on this site.

[MU_Iceman]

So a former DI coach and player, and a paid professional that does on average about 4 to 5 DI basketball games per week is not qualified to give an opinion on this matter?

Perhaps I'm not understanding you.

Thank you, Chico...apparently I made a HORRIBLE mistake when I put the word "NEED" into my post; again I was merely under the impression that this was a site where people posted their OPINIONS on things...my OPINION is that buzz needs to practice free throws when guys are fatigued as opposed to on their own time and my thought on the matter was that MAYBE he could incorporate drills that other D1 players and coaches have implemented in the past...

SOMEWHAT RELATED, but Bill Belichek (who I despise) has consistently pulled Brady in the middle of 2-minute drill practice sequences and thrust the back-up (most notably Matt Cassell in recent years) into the most game-like situation he could to try and simulate the pressure of a game as best as possible.  Why is stopping practice to work on one man in football okay for one of the best coaches in the NFL, but not for a D1 basketball program?  As I recall, that philosphy worked out pretty well for NE last year...

[Jay Bee]

Why is stopping practice to work on one man in football okay for one of the best coaches in the NFL, but not for a D1 basketball program?  As I recall, that philosphy worked out pretty well for NE last year...

  You're right.  Shooting free throws in a college bball game is completely analogous to the two-minute drill in the National Football League.  I'm not sure what a "philosphy" is, but clearly you're a great sports mind.
  Why is it you cry when others don't agree with your opinion?  Aren't you just doing the same?  Or, as you might say.. THE SAME??!?!?!?!?!!
  Watching front-ends being missed has always physically hurt me.. but, this team has much more important things to work on than free throws 'late in practice, when they are tired'. 

[MU_Iceman]

  You're right.  Shooting free throws in a college bball game is completely analogous to the two-minute drill in the National Football League.  I'm not sure what a "philosphy" is, but clearly you're a great sports mind.
  Why is it you cry when others don't agree with your opinion?  Aren't you just doing the same?  Or, as you might say.. THE SAME??!?!?!?!?!!
  Watching front-ends being missed has always physically hurt me.. but, this team has much more important things to work on than free throws 'late in practice, when they are tired'. 

Seriously dude, I'm really not trying to argue with you; and you attacking me because I have an opinion different than yours and because I referenced a solution that differs from a few other peoples is pretty comical.

I don't care if you or anyone shares my opinion, but to attack mine and everyone who I've referenced 's credibility is seriously just unneccessary.  People can agree to disagree.  I haven't belittled you in any way or sarcastically referenced you as a "great sports mind"

As for the 2-minute drill and stopping practice for free throws, I wrote that it's somewhat related only in that it thrust people into a situation where they have to perform...that can apply to free throws while fatigued...but again, my opinion and anyone who agrees with me is soo far off base, so I'm sorry...

It's just not worth arguing with you...you're right, what we've been doing as it pertains to free throws is probably fine, we don't need to commit five minutes of practice time to shoot them as a team, it was just a thought, but a terrible one, I guess...

Now go ahead and verbally attack this post, maybe go after chico for agreeing with me too, you can have the last word...I'm done with this...

On to Nova

[Jay Bee]

  The hypocrisy in your posts is impressively high.  From the long post ending with 'it's not worth it...' and 'on to Nova'... to 'you can have the last word.. I'm done with this' (I win!  what you say doesn't matter!  12 yr old talk).. to you calling my reply 'pretty comical'.. but at the end of the day, I'm glad you're going back on your comment that Buzz NEEDS to have us work on free throws in some type of stressful situation.  
 
By the way... if you want to talk football... there is no "Bill Belichek"... there is no 'thrusting the back-up' into practice... and granted his team had the ball and there was two and change left, but I'm not sure New England has proven to be the most wise late in the game (see Indy game this year, up late, 4th down, ball in their territory)... maybe if they hadn't consistently thrust the backup during practice things would have turned out differently.  

[Marquette84]

There are so many things wrong with this entire statement, I ask myself if the author is serious?? 
Speculating that Buzz didn't use the right pschyology? Blaming Buzz for the players not looking confident at the line?  

And how exactly is this different than the previous post--which speculated that Buzz DID use the right psychology?  

Are you saying you were in the huddle and you know for a 100% fact that Buzz did absolutely everything he could to motivate and pump up the players.  You can vouch with 100% certainty that nothing Buzz said put doubt into the players heads?

Didn't think so.  

Therefore, there is no way you can hold the coach 100% blameless in this situation.  

The reason you bring in a JUCO is to avoid having to deal with freshman jitters?  Seriously??  JUCO's are brought in for 2 main reasons:  To balanace recruiting classes, and secondly tbecause they are talented players.  Period.  Not because a team gets to "avoid freshman jitters." 

Tell me Einstein--why would a coach care about "balancing" the classes?  
Because he wants to avoid a class overloaded with freshmen!

What is wrong with a class load of freshmen?
Don't tell me its because freshman don't have talent.  One word destroys that argument amigo.

Coaches don't want a teamload of freshmen because freshmen tend to get jittery and not play as well whenever they encounter a new situation--like, say, their first major road game outside their home team's state.

That was DJO's first major road game in his MU career, outside of WWisconsin...

Yes.  Like I said, he had a case of the freshman jitters.

[avid1010]

The ONLY thing that prepares players to hit game clinching free throws, is for players to shoot game clinching free throws.  He didn't miss that free throw because he was tire, he missed it because of nerves.  Players will often shoot free throws after lifting weights to simulate the feeling of tired legs/arms.  There's nothing to simulate a game clinching free throw, against a top #10 team, for a players first BEAST game.  Overall, I was very impressed with his first BEAST game.

A scenario, as described in above posts, like using team peer pressure in practice is a joke.  I'm sure DJO has made game clinching free throws throughout his basketball career...unfortunately this was his first attempt at anything close to beating a top #10 team on a BEAST stage. It's all in his head from here on out...he shoots free throws very well.

[GGGG]

Wow, someone is a little cranky today...I never said or implied that they would have made their free throws, but the fact is that in both this game AND the FSU game the commentators who, sorry, know far more than you or I do about any of this, implied that MU was gassed.  Its important to practice free throws in as close to game conditions as possible (ie. gassed) not just on their free time...

And that "middle school drill" as you called it, comes from something i was taught years ago by two men (a coach and also my father) both of which PLAYED D1 basketball (again, people more educated in the matter than you or me)...all I'm saying is it can't hurt to try...

Yes it most certainly CAN hurt to try if it takes practice time away that could be spent on other things.

I coach youth basketball...in fact I just came from practice today where we ran this exact same drill.  It would be absurdly stupid to run this in a college practice.  It still doesn't simulate game situations.  DJO's barely hit the rim...that's all nerves.

[MR.HAYWARD]

There are so many things wrong with this entire statement, I ask myself if the author is serious??  Speculating that Buzz didn't use the right pschyology? Blaming Buzz for the players not looking confident at the line?  The reason you bring in a JUCO is to avoid having to deal with freshman jitters?  Seriously??  JUCO's are brought in for 2 main reasons:  To balanace recruiting classes, and secondly tbecause they are talented players.  Period.  Not because a team gets to "avoid freshman jitters."  That was DJO's first major road game in his MU career, outside of WWisconsin...

Ners...I have to totally agree with you i stayed away from  this thread due to its title and finally read it tonight.  Serious this Marquette 84 i worry about.  I seriously have to question the sanity of someone that posts this stuff.  maybe some delusional personal that is not taking mediaction.  No way you can read that post and walk away from it saying  rational person actually came up with it.  mind boggling....MU84 seek help 

[ChicosBailBonds]

 Your question has nothing to do with the discussion.  You were replying to, "Not disagreeing in general but take issue with the idea that because someone went into sports broadcasting they automatically know more about OUR team than everyone who comes to this site."

  How does one guys credentials have anything to do with everyone that goes into sports broadcasting?  It doesn't.  

edit:  BTW - I don't believe he does an average of 4.5 games per week.  You're just making numbers up.  Maybe I missed it - did someone say, "commentators are not qualified to give an opinion on Marquette hoops"?  I thought all that was said is that being a commentator doesn't mean you're far more knowledgeable about MU hoops than any person on this site.

I took it to mean that just because someone is a sports broadcaster, doesn't mean they understand the game that well.  I actually agree with that statement.  However, what I was pointing out was that in this case, the announcer was more than just an electronic journalism graduate who got into sports broadcasting, but a former DI coach and DI player who's opinion seems more attached to the realities of what happens on the court than merely a broadcaster.

That's all.

And he does an average of 2 games per week for SNY \ MSG, 1 game for ESPN and occasionally 1 game a week for CBS.  Not quite 4 per week, but in some weeks he does 4.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Yes it most certainly CAN hurt to try if it takes practice time away that could be spent on other things.

I coach youth basketball...in fact I just came from practice today where we ran this exact same drill.  It would be absurdly stupid to run this in a college practice.  It still doesn't simulate game situations.  DJO's barely hit the rim...that's all nerves.

I would not say it's absurdly stupid....DI coaches, some, still run it today.  It's all a matter of choice.

Most recently?  #1 ranked Kansas Jayhawks.  

http://www2.kusports.com/news/2009/dec/09/jayhawks-working-free-throws/

“Coach will say something like, ‘If we don’t make five in a row we’ll have a 22 (penalty sprint),’” said KU sophomore power forward Markieff Morris.

“Thomas (Robinson) was shooting the other day, and he made four in a row,” Markieff added, noting Self chose that moment to kid around in an attempt to rattle the freshman forward.

“Coach started grabbing him and said, ‘You’ve got a nice body,’ and Thomas missed the last one.”

The Jayhawks (7-0) — who have hit 65 percent of their free-throw tries, compared to opponents’ 66.7 percent mark heading into today’s 7 p.m. home game against Radford (4-2) — do indeed practice charities extensively.

[Jay Bee]

I took it to mean that just because someone is a sports broadcaster, doesn't mean they understand the game that well.  I actually agree with that statement.  However, what I was pointing out was that in this case, the announcer was more than just an electronic journalism graduate who got into sports broadcasting, but a former DI coach and DI player who's opinion seems more attached to the realities of what happens on the court than merely a broadcaster.

That's all.

And he does an average of 2 games per week for SNY \ MSG, 1 game for ESPN and occasionally 1 game a week for CBS.  Not quite 4 per week, but in some weeks he does 4.

  You misread. Quite the opposite was being discussed.  People were irked by someone saying that just because they are broadcasting a game means they are almighty knowing.  And... in a very general sense, not related to one guy.  
  Many guys (and a couple gals?!), both play by play and color guys, are very wise.  I hope you watch Red Eye.

  Doesn't Self grab all his players and say, "you've got a nice body" in many situations, not just when practicing free throws?  I heard that was the main 'sticking point' for Tyshawn in getting him to head to Lawrence. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

http://blogs.courant.com/uconn_mens_basketball/2009/12/mailbag-question-1214-free-thr.html


Mailbag Question, 12/14: Free Throws
By
Mike Anthony
 on December 14, 2009 4:13 PM | Permalink | Comments (2)

Q: Mike, this is about 5 years in a row or so that they simply cannot make foul shots, especially when it matters most.  Does Calhoun force them to shoot foul shots in practice?  I mean he never talks about it and it costs them game after game.  They keep integrating new players yet nothing changes.  How can almost every guy miss foul shots?  Dyson may have a good average but he missed a bunch [against Kentucky] and Kemba Walker is flat out terrible at the line.  He crushed their comeback against Michigan St. last season.

-Jeff S., Prospect

A: Jeff, I can assure you that missed free throws drive Calhoun crazy. He mentions them with the greatest of frustration after losses. He mentioned them after the Kentucky game, though briefly. Going back a few months, he was asked about whether the six-overtime game against Syracuse was exhausting and he said, "I'm not exhausted. I could practice right now. Free throws, maybe." So it drives him nuts. UConn, like many teams, ends every practice with free throw shooting drills. The Huskies always have to make a certain percentage or amount before ending practice, or they keep running laps. My thought recently is that players have been missing key second-half free throws because they are so exhausted. The core of Walker, Dyson, Edwards (who never misses), Oriakhi and Robinson have been playing quite a lot of minutes, and Dyson really puts himself through hell for 35-plus minutes a game. Not sure if that is the reason, but it's a thought.



THERE ARE MANY OTHERS...it's a coach's personal choice, but I'd say if Hall of Famer John Wooden, Hall of Famer Coach K, Hall of Famer Jim Calhoun, and likely future Hall of Famer at KU are doing it, it's probably not absurd or even a waste of time as some have portrayed it here.

It's a matter of choice by the coach.  Ours doesn't believe it's necessary, these other coaches do.  Doesn't make one right or one wrong, just different philosophy.

[Jay Bee]

It's a matter of choice by the coach.  Ours doesn't believe it's necessary, these other coaches do.  Doesn't make one right or one wrong, just different philosophy.

  Chicos that's bullcrap.  Just because that is done at the end of practice does not mean they believe "it's necessary".  You don't know what the motivation is - ever heard of team building?  i.e., We're not out of here until guys step up and do what they have to.. otherwise we'll be here all night..

  If coaches were saying, "got damn it!  we need to practice free throws an hour a day!  we keep missing 'em" that would be one thing.. but you're just making stuff up now.  Living in a world of hyperbole and nonsense is d u m b.