Football Ratings Are Down

[Pakuni]

Eye-Black in not part of the uniform, just like tattoos are not part of the uniform. (headbands are which is why Jim McMahon was fined)

Wrong.

Pittsburgh Steelers defensive end Cam Heyward says the NFL fined him for wearing eye-black reading “Iron Head” in honor of his father's fight against cancer.
Heyward’s father, Craig “Ironhead” Heyward, was diagnosed with malignant bone cancer in November 1998 and was pronounced cancer-free after 40 rounds of radiation treatment. A tumor recurred in 2005 before he died on May 27, 2006 at the age of 39. Heyward played in the NFL from 1988 to 1998.
Players are permitted to use eye-black to reduce glare from sunlight or bright stadium lights, but the NFL's uniform policy against “personal messages” is a $5,787 fine for a first time offender.

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/10/14/cam-heyward-fined-nfl-eye-black-honoring-father-cancer-fight

[brewcity77]

Hey look, Jesse can't support his position so he changes the issue and levels personal attacks. So very, very surprised. You've learned well from your master, Darth Chicos.

[forgetful]

The Hypocrisy of Pakuni

Your problem is you start with your personal beleifs.  You approve of the Black Lives Matter/Kaepernick protest so you twist yourself into a pretzel to argue it is not hurting ratings.  You will also defend this as a worthwhile and necessary protest. 

You're not, you're a hyper-partisan that condescends those that did share your political views and cannot see how tortured your logic is about Kapernick and NFL ratings are.

So why can't the NFL treat Kaepernick the same as Tebow?  The answer is Kaepernick fits your political view where Tebow does not.

Pakuni is one of the most rational level headed posters on here and has called me out for being partisan or biased numerous times, even though we agree on many fundamental issues. 

You're out of line.

[bma77]

So they can overlook wife beatings, drug arrests, debilitating brain injuries etc., and just ignore them so it doesn't bother their football watching.  But a guy kneels during the anthem (when most aren't even watching to begin with) and it is so bothersome it disrupts their happy time.  Illogical to believe that is the underlying reason for them being upset and equally illogical that they are stopping watching football because of it.

Bluntly.  Yes.  Did you stop watching MU basketball when some of our players got in trouble?  In my view, most fans watch sports for the competition.  They may not like what their players do off the field.  We had that problem with Michael Vick, but we still followed the team.  It isn't illogical at all, and looking at the comments of fans, they want to watch football, not the other stuff.

The national anthem takes it to a different level, because it is part of the game. It is happening with the players and the pageantry.  It isn't happening in a bedroom somewhere, or an elevator, or a dog fight. It is happening on their TVs, and to many of those fans it is disrespectful to the nation, to the military, to the police, to all kinds of things.  More importantly, it brings the other stuff into the game when they only want to watch football.  People turn on tv to watch football on their tv, not the other stuff.  There are a number of articles outside of this poll that are giving the fans side of the story who choose to turn the tv off.

Polls are all words, the people are still turning in.  The games in primetime this year have been terrible, and in one case terrible and directly opposite the most watched presidential debate in recent history.

The debate had a large impact for sure.  The ratings are down for key matchups, not only the primetime games. 

[4everwarriors]

Ya can do whatever ya want. Just be prepared to eat chit catchin' da fallout. BTW, who da hell is Colin Kaepernick anyways, hey?

[Pakuni]

Sports Business Daily put out a story today about TV ratings decline that shows that what's happening in the NFL is part of a trend affecting all sports, i.e. not because of Colin Kaepernick, and identifies a more likely culprit ... the presidential race.

Full story:
http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2016/10/03/Research-and-Ratings/Ratings.aspx

Some key passages:

It’s not just the NFL. The Summer Olympics on NBC were down double digits in viewership from the London Games. ESPN’s “Sunday Night Baseball” posted its lowest viewership average in at least a decade. Six NASCAR races from Aug. 21 to Sept. 25 logged double-digit viewership drops in race-to-race comparisons. Four prime-time UFC telecasts on Fox registered a combined 10 percent viewership drop this year.
Plus, several big events posted record low viewership, including the U.S. Open’s men’s and women’s tennis finals and the NCAA men’s basketball championship game.

That “very strange year” has seen the news networks — Fox News, CNN and MSNBC — capitalize on the unpredictable, reality-show vibe surrounding this year’s presidential race. Regardless of how people may feel about the candidates, the news networks’ viewership gains mirror a train wreck that people can’t stop watching. Some believe those additional news viewers are coming from sports.
For Mike Mulvihill, Fox Sports’ senior vice president of programming and research, this summer reminds him of 2000, when the George Bush-Al Gore race was left undecided until December. That was the only year from 2000 to 2010 where all four NFL TV packages dropped from the previous year — Fox was down 4 percent, CBS down 10 percent, ABC down 7 percent and ESPN down 11 percent. It also was a year that saw World Series viewership drop by 22 percent.
“I would really start with the election — I don’t think you have to look much deeper than that,” he said. “Cable news has been up so much all year, going back to the earliest primary debates. So much of a share of attention has gone to the campaign, it seems like it has affected everything else.”

[Tugg Speedman]

Sports Business Daily put out a story today about TV ratings decline that shows that what's happening in the NFL is part of a trend affecting all sports, i.e. not because of Colin Kaepernick, and identifies a more likely culprit ... the presidential race.

Full story:
http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2016/10/03/Research-and-Ratings/Ratings.aspx

Some key passages:

It’s not just the NFL. The Summer Olympics on NBC were down double digits in viewership from the London Games. ESPN’s “Sunday Night Baseball” posted its lowest viewership average in at least a decade. Six NASCAR races from Aug. 21 to Sept. 25 logged double-digit viewership drops in race-to-race comparisons. Four prime-time UFC telecasts on Fox registered a combined 10 percent viewership drop this year.
Plus, several big events posted record low viewership, including the U.S. Open’s men’s and women’s tennis finals and the NCAA men’s basketball championship game.

That “very strange year” has seen the news networks — Fox News, CNN and MSNBC — capitalize on the unpredictable, reality-show vibe surrounding this year’s presidential race. Regardless of how people may feel about the candidates, the news networks’ viewership gains mirror a train wreck that people can’t stop watching. Some believe those additional news viewers are coming from sports.
For Mike Mulvihill, Fox Sports’ senior vice president of programming and research, this summer reminds him of 2000, when the George Bush-Al Gore race was left undecided until December. That was the only year from 2000 to 2010 where all four NFL TV packages dropped from the previous year — Fox was down 4 percent, CBS down 10 percent, ABC down 7 percent and ESPN down 11 percent. It also was a year that saw World Series viewership drop by 22 percent.
“I would really start with the election — I don’t think you have to look much deeper than that,” he said. “Cable news has been up so much all year, going back to the earliest primary debates. So much of a share of attention has gone to the campaign, it seems like it has affected everything else.”

Now you're willing to believe that everyone is electing to watch CNN on Sunday afternoon instead of the NFL.  At this point you will grasp at anything except that Kapernick is hurting the league. 

The election only mattered to last Monday's game, and will hurt this Sunday's game too (as the second debate will overlap with the Giants at Packers game)

Actually, if politics is affecting the NFL, which is supposed to be an escape  from it, that this argument fits well with Kaepernick's unpopular protest affecting ratings.  (and again, my only interest is from a business standpoint.  How does one control a high profile employees that are using your business as a platform for a protest that is unpopular with your customers?)

And to be clear again, Lots of things are hurting the NFL, most are self-inflicted. Kaepernick is one of them because, despite Pakuni's personal beliefs, Kaepernick's protest, and others like it, are not popular with NFL fans.  It is the reason that #boycotthenfl has been trending for weeks.

If Pakuni would just accept that Kaepernick's views are not popular and hurting at the margin this entire issue can be put to rest.  He continues to be blinded by his political beliefs.  As noted above, he was all for banning a pro-life protest because that was political but since he approves of Kaepernick's politics, he's all for this.  (I think the NFL should ban all of it, everything, as no political protest is good for them.  And, if they want to end the Anthem, I'm ok with that too).

[Benny B]

Sports Business Daily put out a story today about TV ratings decline that shows that what's happening in the NFL is part of a trend affecting all sports, i.e. not because of Colin Kaepernick, and identifies a more likely culprit ... the presidential race.

Full story:
http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2016/10/03/Research-and-Ratings/Ratings.aspx

Some key passages:

It’s not just the NFL. The Summer Olympics on NBC were down double digits in viewership from the London Games. ESPN’s “Sunday Night Baseball” posted its lowest viewership average in at least a decade. Six NASCAR races from Aug. 21 to Sept. 25 logged double-digit viewership drops in race-to-race comparisons. Four prime-time UFC telecasts on Fox registered a combined 10 percent viewership drop this year.
Plus, several big events posted record low viewership, including the U.S. Open’s men’s and women’s tennis finals and the NCAA men’s basketball championship game.

That “very strange year” has seen the news networks — Fox News, CNN and MSNBC — capitalize on the unpredictable, reality-show vibe surrounding this year’s presidential race. Regardless of how people may feel about the candidates, the news networks’ viewership gains mirror a train wreck that people can’t stop watching. Some believe those additional news viewers are coming from sports.
For Mike Mulvihill, Fox Sports’ senior vice president of programming and research, this summer reminds him of 2000, when the George Bush-Al Gore race was left undecided until December. That was the only year from 2000 to 2010 where all four NFL TV packages dropped from the previous year — Fox was down 4 percent, CBS down 10 percent, ABC down 7 percent and ESPN down 11 percent. It also was a year that saw World Series viewership drop by 22 percent.
“I would really start with the election — I don’t think you have to look much deeper than that,” he said. “Cable news has been up so much all year, going back to the earliest primary debates. So much of a share of attention has gone to the campaign, it seems like it has affected everything else.”

All of these articles sound like they were written by Chicos... making excuses and sidestepping the reality that ratings are down simply because of a) cord-cutting but mostly b) the waning desire to watch TV amongst Gen Xers and Millenials.... not to mention that the growing infirmity of Boomers generally doesn't lend itself to continued cable and satellite subscriptions.

Heck, if we want to get into root causes of falling ratings, look no further than boomers who absolutely love themselves some toob compared to their children and grandchildren who, at best, have more of an on-again, off-again relationship with TV.  My grandmother watched Wheel and Jeopardy every day until the day she died, religiously.  Having her anywhere but home at 3:15p was like watching the "Wapner" scene from Rain Man.  Even before DVR, most of us Xers and Ys probably don't even recall being in a situation where the world would have seemingly ended if we weren't in front of a TV at a particular time.

It probably has something to do with the fact that most boomers remember the day their family brought home their first television, as opposed to the younger generations who remember their first TV as well as they remember meeting their parents for the first time.

[brandx]

If Pakuni would just accept that Kaepernick's views are not popular and hurting at the margin this entire issue can be put to rest.  He continues to be blinded by his political beliefs.

Everything Heisy has ever posted is summed up in these two ironic sentences.

[Benny B]

Everything Heisy has ever posted is summed up in these two ironic sentences.

Is that actual irony or "Canadian irony" (i.e. the stuff Alanis sings about)?

[Pakuni]

Now you're willing to believe that everyone is electing to watch CNN on Sunday afternoon instead of the NFL.  At this point you will grasp at anything except that Kapernick is hurting the league. 

The election only mattered to last Monday's game, and will hurt this Sunday's game too (as the second debate will overlap with the Giants at Packers game)

Actually, if politics is affecting the NFL, which is supposed to be an escape  from it, that this argument fits well with Kaepernick's unpopular protest affecting ratings.  (and again, my only interest is from a business standpoint.  How does one control a high profile employees that are using your business as a platform for a protest that is unpopular with your customers?)

And to be clear again, Lots of things are hurting the NFL, most are self-inflicted. Kaepernick is one of them because, despite Pakuni's personal beliefs, Kaepernick's protest, and others like it, are not popular with NFL fans.  It is the reason that #boycotthenfl has been trending for weeks.

If Pakuni would just accept that Kaepernick's views are not popular and hurting at the margin this entire issue can be put to rest.  He continues to be blinded by his political beliefs.  As noted above, he was all for banning a pro-life protest because that was political but since he approves of Kaepernick's politics, he's all for this.  (I think the NFL should ban all of it, everything, as no political protest is good for them.  And, if they want to end the Anthem, I'm ok with that too).

[Tugg Speedman]

He's right that if the NFL finds hard evidence that the protests are affecting ratings, they should be suspended. 

But the NFL will purposely not look for it because they don't want to find it.  Because if they do, their will animated demands from some owners (Jones of the Cowboys, Blank of the Falcons, McNair of the Texans, Spanos of the Charges, Snider of the Redskins and Benson of the Saints to name some) that Goodell take the arrows and announce a ban.  Goddell is fighting for his job and will not even look for it.  (the owners listed cannot stand Goddell and want him gone ASAP and blame him for allowing this to get this far in the first place.)

JOHN STEIGERWALD: NFL is boring, ratings are down
https://www.indianagazette.com/news/columns/john-steigerwald-nfl-is-boring-ratings-are-down,25080470/

Is it the Kaepernick factor? Who knows? But there is a Boycott-the-NFL movement out there that started when Colin Kaepernick started the trend of players protesting during the playing of the national anthem.

If the NFL finds hard evidence that the anthem demonstrations are costing it viewers, then players should be suspended for not standing. It’s a business, and the business isn’t paying employees hundreds of thousands of dollars per game to chase customers away.”

[Tugg Speedman]

Getting past Kaepernick, the collaspe continues.  New lows last night

‘Sunday Night Football’ Ratings Hit Season Low With BlowOut; ‘Madam Secretary’ Down From 2015
http://deadline.com/2016/10/sunday-night-football-ratings-hit-low-steelers-chiefs-madam-secretary-quantico-nbc-1201829932/

[Pakuni]

He's right that if the NFL finds hard evidence that the protests are affecting ratings, they should be suspended. 

But the NFL will purposely not look for it because they don't want to find it.  Because if they do, their will animated demands from some owners (Jones of the Cowboys, Blank of the Falcons, McNair of the Texans, Spanos of the Charges, Snider of the Redskins and Benson of the Saints to name some) that Goodell take the arrows and announce a ban.  Goddell is fighting for his job and will not even look for it.  (the owners listed cannot stand Goddell and want him gone ASAP and blame him for allowing this to get this far in the first place.)

JOHN STEIGERWALD: NFL is boring, ratings are down
https://www.indianagazette.com/news/columns/john-steigerwald-nfl-is-boring-ratings-are-down,25080470/

Is it the Kaepernick factor? Who knows? But there is a Boycott-the-NFL movement out there that started when Colin Kaepernick started the trend of players protesting during the playing of the national anthem.

If the NFL finds hard evidence that the anthem demonstrations are costing it viewers, then players should be suspended for not standing. It’s a business, and the business isn’t paying employees hundreds of thousands of dollars per game to chase customers away.”

So, it's your contention that the NFL ought to suspend any player who engages in any behavior that might turn off any potential customer?

Also, thanks for bringing this genius commentary to the discussion. The column also included this gem:

Remember long kickoff returns? They used to be one of the most exciting plays in sports. The NFL all but outlawed them when they decided to let kickers kick off from the 35-yard line.
Can’t have all 22 players running around willy-nilly chasing a little guy who might make everybody miss. Somebody might get hurt.
It doesn’t matter that the NFL’s concern about injuries is legitimate. The fact remains that fans are deprived of one of the most exciting plays the sport has to offer.

Got that NFL? Screw you and your player safety.

[Tugg Speedman]

So, it's your contention that the NFL ought to suspend any player who engages in any behavior that might turn off any potential customer?

Also, thanks for bringing this genius commentary to the discussion. The column also included this gem:

Remember long kickoff returns? They used to be one of the most exciting plays in sports. The NFL all but outlawed them when they decided to let kickers kick off from the 35-yard line.
Can’t have all 22 players running around willy-nilly chasing a little guy who might make everybody miss. Somebody might get hurt.
It doesn’t matter that the NFL’s concern about injuries is legitimate. The fact remains that fans are deprived of one of the most exciting plays the sport has to offer.

Got that NFL? Screw you and your player safety.

Yes, your business would not tolerate any personal behavior at work that would upset customers.  The NFL is no different.

Regarding the kick-off the author above is right.  After a TD ....

* All scoring plays are reviewed, wasted time.
*If long enough, commercials, more wasted time.
* then the extra point, nothing to see here, yet more wasted time.
* More commercials
* Kick-off which is nothing but a touch-back, wasted time
* More commercials.

All told this can take 10 minutes.  It is a buzzkill in the middle of the game.  I usually leave the room after a TD and now I sometimes don't come back.

If you are that worried about player safety, then do it like the playground.  Get rid of the extra-point and kick-off.,  After a TD, everyone walk to the 25 yard line, put the ball down, blow the whistle and you have 40 seconds to run a play.  Next play after a TD, no more than 90- seconds away.  Get on with it!!

[Pakuni]

Yes, your business would not tolerate any personal behavior at work that would upset customers.  The NFL is no different.

So, behavior that might cost your business customers is acceptable, so long as it is away from the workplace?

[tower912]

Drop, baby, drop.   

[Tugg Speedman]

So, behavior that might cost your business customers is acceptable, so long as it is away from the workplace?

Behavior away from the workplace is protected by law.

Example, If I employ someone that is gay (and I have in the past) and customer's finds out they are gay "outside the office" I cannot do anything about it, nor would I want to.  They have that right.

But if a gay employee uses his access to my customers as a platform to conduct a gay protest, and some customers were upset that they were subjected to it at work because they did business with my company, I would move to stop it.  That employee does not have that right.

[Tugg Speedman]

Drop, baby, drop.

Last Sunday Night's game was down big from a week before.  This Sunday could be the lowest ever as it is going up against the debate.

Next story in a few weeks, the NFL promises minimum audiences and they are not meeting them.  So they will have to "give-back" in the form of extra free commercials (they will never give back money).  So they games will be extended an extra 10 to 15 minutes as they run more extra commercials for free.

He comes the vicious cycle.

[Pakuni]

Behavior away from the workplace is protected by law.

Example, If I employ someone that is gay (and I have in the past) and customer's finds out they are gay "outside the office" I cannot do anything about it, nor would I want to.  They have that right.

But if a gay employee uses his access to my customers as a platform to conduct a gay protest, and some customers were upset that they were subjected to it at work because they did business with my company, I would move to stop it.  That employee does not have that right.

Psst ... your gay employee (congrats on that, by the way ... do you also boast about having black friends?) wasn't just gay outside the office.
You've really twisted yourself into a logic pretzel here, by the way.


Also, if behavior away from the workplace is protected by law, how did the NFL manage to suspend Ray Rice and Le'Veon Bell?

[Tugg Speedman]

Psst ... your gay employee (congrats on that, by the way ... do you also boast about having black friends?) wasn't just gay outside the office.
You've really twisted yourself into a logic pretzel here, by the way.


Also, if behavior away from the workplace is protected by law, how did the NFL manage to suspend Ray Rice and Le'Veon Bell?

He did not just define himself as gay in the office, but also a professional striving to be successful in his career.  Yes we knew he was gay but he was more interested in talking about issues in the office, than his lifestyle.


NFL players have a contract, approved by the NFLPA, with a morals clause.  That allows the commissioner a broad reach into their personal life.


You would know this if you were not blinded by political ideologue.

[Pakuni]

He did not just define himself as gay in the office, but also a professional striving to be successful in his career.  Yes we knew he was gay but he was more interested in talking about issues in the office, than his lifestyle.


NFL players have a contract, approved by the NFLPA, with a morals clause.  That allows the commissioner a broad reach into their personal life.

Yes, I know this. You apparently did not when you claimed "behavior away from the workplace is protected by law."

You would know this if you were not blinded by political ideologue.

You need some new material. Preferably some that makes sense.

[GGGG]

He's right that if the NFL finds hard evidence that the protests are affecting ratings, they should be suspended. 

But the NFL will purposely not look for it because they don't want to find it.  Because if they do, their will animated demands from some owners (Jones of the Cowboys, Blank of the Falcons, McNair of the Texans, Spanos of the Charges, Snider of the Redskins and Benson of the Saints to name some) that Goodell take the arrows and announce a ban.  Goddell is fighting for his job and will not even look for it.  (the owners listed cannot stand Goddell and want him gone ASAP and blame him for allowing this to get this far in the first place.)

JOHN STEIGERWALD: NFL is boring, ratings are down
https://www.indianagazette.com/news/columns/john-steigerwald-nfl-is-boring-ratings-are-down,25080470/

Is it the Kaepernick factor? Who knows? But there is a Boycott-the-NFL movement out there that started when Colin Kaepernick started the trend of players protesting during the playing of the national anthem.

If the NFL finds hard evidence that the anthem demonstrations are costing it viewers, then players should be suspended for not standing. It’s a business, and the business isn’t paying employees hundreds of thousands of dollars per game to chase customers away.”

The article hits on about a dozen of legitimate reasons why ratings are down.  There is no evidence to suggest that Kaepernick is a problem.  Right now the product simply isn't very good.

[Tugg Speedman]

The article hits on about a dozen of legitimate reasons why ratings are down.  There is no evidence to suggest that Kaepernick is a problem.  Right now the product simply isn't very good.

What would you accept as "evidence?"

[GGGG]

What would you accept as "evidence?"

Nothing you have posted so far.