MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: CAGASS24 on December 26, 2014, 08:12:34 AM
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I'm not from mke/Il area and have only really followed DePaul bball since 2000, so I've seen a couple decent squads in those first few years, but what the hell is preventing them from turning this thing around? Purnell by now should have this team as a .500 conf staple at least the likes of seton hall/prov. he seemed the perfect hire at the time. He's clearly at least a solid bball coach based on his past history. I've watched DePaul enough over the years to see that the talent deficit isn't that great. I mean its not like the diff between most BCS schools and say a 300+ rpi team. However their results the last 5 years play out that's exactly what they are. What's up? A big city school with a significant bball history. Where's the boosters? Where's the admin support? Where's the fans??? I just don't get it.
Just sad I guess- sad for the whole league.
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1. Terrible arena (that situation will change)
2. Purnell was a bad hire
3. Lack of administrative support
4. Apathy amongst the fan base
5. No support from the metropolitan area.
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I'm not from mke/Il area and have only really followed DePaul bball since 2000, so I've seen a couple decent squads in those first few years, but what the hell is preventing them from turning this thing around? Purnell by now should have this team as a .500 conf staple at least the likes of seton hall/prov. he seemed the perfect hire at the time. He's clearly at least a solid bball coach based on his past history. I've watched DePaul enough over the years to see that the talent deficit isn't that great. I mean its not like the diff between most BCS schools and say a 300+ rpi team. However their results the last 5 years play out that's exactly what they are. What's up? A big city school with a significant bball history. Where's the boosters? Where's the admin support? Where's the fans??? I just don't get it.
Just sad I guess- sad for the whole league.
What Sultan said only administration specifically referring to Jean Lenti (Letti?) Ponsetto their AD has actually cut Bball funding over the years to redistribute it to women's sports.
Regarding Purnell, they don't play defense. Like ever.
Lastly nobody's going to make that track out there to see a team lose. I guess you could ask which came first the fans or the egg.
They'll be down till at least the new arena which is when I kinda expect them to clean house.
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DePaul has had one period of sustained success in its history: 1978-1989, when it went to 11 NCAA tournaments in 12 years (although 3 were later vacated). Note the correlation - just after Al retired, they scooped up some huge recruits that had been planning on MU (Mark Aguirre), and continued their success through the Dukiet era. So DePaul's longest sustained success came during MU's worst period in the modern era.
Other than that 12 year period, DePaul has been to 11 NCAAs in 79 seasons.
Long story short: DePaul's leadership has generally not considered basketball a priority; mediocrity seems perfectly acceptable to them. And their one period of sustained success was serendipity - when MU was trying to replace a legend, and recruits suddenly and dramatically reached for DePaul as a backup plan. As Marquette turned things around and started to win again, DePaul faded into the background.
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I would also suggest that RAY MEYER was a HOF coach but couldn't/wouldn't/didn't recruit. Son JOEY joined the staff and recruited his lips off as dad's assistant. Unfortunately for the Blue Demons, when RAY retired and JOEY took over, it became painfully obvious that the MEYER in-game coaching genes had skipped a generation, and the drawn-out Demon death spiral began.
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What Sultan said only administration specifically referring to Jean Lenti (Letti?) Ponsetto their AD has actually cut Bball funding over the years to redistribute it to women's sports.
I'm not sure that's actually the case. Purnell makes more money than any coach in DePaul history. They may use basketball revenue to pay for women's sports, but that's also the case at Marquette.
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they scooped up some huge recruits that had been planning on MU (Mark Aguirre),
They still ride the Aguirre train. I went to the game vs. MU last year at the All-State Arena and there were Aguirre banners, he was in the video, referenced frequently, and he was shown sitting courtside as well.
You can tell why a player wouldn't be psyched to play there when you go to a game. It's such a huge factor. SO far from campus and just no energy.
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3. Lack of administrative support
Is it that hard to find secretarial staff in a city the size of Chicago?
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I'm not sure that's actually the case. Purnell makes more money than any coach in DePaul history. They may use basketball revenue to pay for women's sports, but that's also the case at Marquette.
Are you sure that is the case? I was under the impression that MBB at Marquette gets to keep all of their revenue.
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Are you sure that is the case? I was under the impression that MBB at Marquette gets to keep all of their revenue.
Could be. I was assuming based on what I have heard elsewhere.
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DePaul has had one period of sustained success in its history: 1978-1989, when it went to 11 NCAA tournaments in 12 years (although 3 were later vacated). Note the correlation - just after Al retired, they scooped up some huge recruits that had been planning on MU (Mark Aguirre), and continued their success through the Dukiet era. So DePaul's longest sustained success came during MU's worst period in the modern era.
DePaul has had a few periods of sustained success. They had success under Leitao, Tom Haggerty, and Jim Kelly as well. Let's remember that the Meyer family ran the program for 54 years so it isn't completely fair to say that is the entire program as that would be for any program since they ran it so long.
DePaul is Top 60 in all-time NCAA wins with 1,413. I believe they are leading the series against us all-time as well.
Are they a sleeping giant? Probably not. But there is a enough there to be a decent program.
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DePaul has had a few periods of sustained success. They had success under Leitao, Tom Haggerty, and Jim Kelly as well. Let's remember that the Meyer family ran the program for 54 years so it isn't completely fair to say that is the entire program as that would be for any program since they ran it so long.
DePaul is Top 60 in all-time NCAA wins with 1,413. I believe they are leading the series against us all-time as well.
Are they a sleeping giant? Probably not. But there is a enough there to be a decent program.
Not even close. Marquette is leading the series 70-44.
http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/all-time_series_records
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Not even close. Marquette is leading the series 70-44.
http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/all-time_series_records
Thanks. More than glad to be wrong on that one.
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DePaul has had a few periods of sustained success. They had success under Leitao, Tom Haggerty, and Jim Kelly as well. Let's remember that the Meyer family ran the program for 54 years so it isn't completely fair to say that is the entire program as that would be for any program since they ran it so long.
DePaul is Top 60 in all-time NCAA wins with 1,413. I believe they are leading the series against us all-time as well.
Are they a sleeping giant? Probably not. But there is a enough there to be a decent program.
Most recently, they had success under Pat Kennedy, who cheated his arse off to recruit Quentin Richardson & Co.
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1. Terrible arena (that situation will change)
2. Purnell was a bad hire
3. Lack of administrative support
4. Apathy amongst the fan base
5. No support from the metropolitan area.
If DePaul put a competitive, compelling product on the court, there would be support. DePaul was THE team in Chicago in the late 70s and early 80s. In 1981 - DePaul's first year in what was then called the Rosemont Horizon - they finished 8th in the nation in attendance, averaging more than 15,000 fans per game. They were top 20 in attendance every year between 1981 and 1988.
But the fact is, the Chicago market is too competitive and people aren't going to come out in droves to see crap.
The real death knell for DePaul basketball was when former AD Bill Bradshaw began undercutting Joey Meyer, especially with CPS coaches, by preventing the admission of recruits who Ray had no problem getting in. The CPS was by and large the lifeblood of DePaul's success, and when coaches began pushing their players away from DePaul, it began their downward spiral.
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Are they a sleeping giant? Probably not. But there is a enough there to be a decent program.
Agreed. I laugh at the "sleeping giant" references, but have always said they should be able to have a decent team given the wealth of talent in the Chicago area. Even if the best players go to schools like MU and UW-Madison or the bluebloods, there is still enough talent for them to be more competitive then they have been.
As a program, I don't see them consistently being at the level of MU, Georgetown, or Nova, but there is no reason they can't favorably compete with schools like Providence, Seton Hall and St. John's.
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DePaul sucks hard that's what's up.
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Three letters:
J - L - P
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If DePaul put a competitive, compelling product on the court, there would be support. DePaul was THE team in Chicago in the late 70s and early 80s. In 1981 - DePaul's first year in what was then called the Rosemont Horizon - they finished 8th in the nation in attendance, averaging more than 15,000 fans per game. They were top 20 in attendance every year between 1981 and 1988.
But the fact is, the Chicago market is too competitive and people aren't going to come out in droves to see crap.
The real death knell for DePaul basketball was when former AD Bill Bradshaw began undercutting Joey Meyer, especially with CPS coaches, by preventing the admission of recruits who Ray had no problem getting in. The CPS was by and large the lifeblood of DePaul's success, and when coaches began pushing their players away from DePaul, it began their downward spiral.
Public League coaches boycotted DePaul under Joey because they alleged he mishandled Teddy Grubbs, who was a very good player, but also borderline disturbed.
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Getting Billy Garrett was a good start but they didn't really pus forward with it. Cliff Alexander had them in his top 3 but I don't think Depaul was even an option. It's really too bad because I would love a good Depaul and MU rivalry.
That being said, I'll be there cheering for MU at the Bradley Center south on new years eve.
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I do wonder if depaul in 06/07 had made the tournament what they'd be now. They were really really close they were just bad in their first two games and that seemed to be the difference I mean they went 20-14 not great but definitely close to being in,
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I couldn't help myself from thinking about Jerry Seinfeld saying "What's the deal with DePaul?"
(http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/9/91798/2572538-what%27s+the+deal.jpg)
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Three letters:
J - L - P
Jean Luc Picard? Damn you Patrick Stewart...
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Three letters:
J - L - P
It's deeper than that. I mean, her husband played for Ray Meyer. You think she is trying to kill the basketball program?
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Three letters:
J - L - P
This is the correct answer. I'm a grad school alum from DePaul and it's common knowledge on campus that Jean Lenti Ponsetto does not want men's basketball to outshine the other sports.
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It's deeper than that. I mean, her husband played for Ray Meyer. You think she is trying to kill the basketball program?
It's not that she's trying to kill it its that she refuses to let it be the standard of the Athletics department she wants it all or nothing. So instead of investing in the program and building it up she's focusing on women's bball and the soccer and volleyball programs. Depaul actually has a decent athletics department overall due to her.
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It's not that she's trying to kill it its that she refuses to let it be the standard of the Athletics department she wants it all or nothing. So instead of investing in the program and building it up she's focusing on women's bball and the soccer and volleyball programs. Depaul actually has a decent athletics department overall due to her.
But again, she signed Purnell to the biggest contract in DePaul history. Now undoubtedly he was the wrong choice and that's her fault, but if she was trying to find ways to not invest in the program, signing the head coach away from an ACC school is a funny way of doing it.
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This is the correct answer. I'm a grad school alum from DePaul and it's common knowledge on campus that Jean Lenti Ponsetto does not want men's basketball to outshine the other sports.
TRAITOR!!
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But again, she signed Purnell to the biggest contract in DePaul history. Now undoubtedly he was the wrong choice and that's her fault, but if she was trying to find ways to not invest in the program, signing the head coach away from an ACC school is a funny way of doing it.
An old coach from an average ACC school and got a coach that never once won an NCAA tournament game. Not exactly a great example of great management. I'd say it was a lazy hire trying to look good.
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It's deeper than that. I mean, her husband played for Ray Meyer. You think she is trying to kill the basketball program?
I didn't say she was trying to "kill" the program... but she is the "deal" with DePaul not reaching its full potential.
She's like an attention-starved, borderline-psychopathic mother who does nothing but stand in the way of her only child attending Harvard on a scholarship because she's worried he'll forget about her someday.
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Are you sure that is the case? I was under the impression that MBB at Marquette gets to keep all of their revenue.
Basketball pretty much funds the entire athletic department, along with fundraising.
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An old coach from an average ACC school and got a coach that never once won an NCAA tournament game. Not exactly a great example of great management. I'd say it was a lazy hire trying to look good.
Purnell had a solid reputation as a program rebuilder when he landed the DePaul job.
Dayton won 10 games combined the two seasons before Purnell arrived. They won 48 his last two seasons.
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This is the correct answer. I'm a grad school alum from DePaul and it's common knowledge on campus that Jean Lenti Ponsetto does not want men's basketball to outshine the other sports.
It's important to remember that Lenti-Ponsetto played four sports while at DePaul, and reportedly was never happy about the disparity between the funding the Men's basketball program got and the funding for the non-revenue sports.
Here we, like fans from really every other conference school, are wondering why DePaul can't get more done with their men's basketball program while at DePaul the official line is this: "Jeanne was named to her current position on July 1, 2002 and the Blue Demons have experienced tremendous success both on and off the playing field ever since." (From Lenti-Ponsetto's official bio at the DePaul Athletics site.) So, I guess, BOT indifference or incomprehension regarding the potential for what the men's basketball program could contribute to the school has to be playing a role.
IMO, alumni apathy is not due not so much to the current state of the men's program as it is a sense of futility about attempting to fix it while Lenti-Ponsetto is in charge.
But again, she signed Purnell to the biggest contract in DePaul history. Now undoubtedly he was the wrong choice and that's her fault, but if she was trying to find ways to not invest in the program, signing the head coach away from an ACC school is a funny way of doing it.
Another factor is Lenti-Ponsetto decided that fixing the men's basketball program was simply a matter of getting a name coach by offering a big salary. Several coaches who might have considered the job were shocked when they found out how little would be left over in the budget for them to use in building the program. Remember, the reason Marquette was able to lure Wojo away from Duke had a lot to do with the resources that he would have at his disposal in building the program.
Finally, I've heard (but don't know for a fact) that DePaul's practice facility leaves something to be desired as a recruiting tool.
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Yeah but, VT hired a head coach from a Big East school. Just sayin', aina?
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The real death knell for DePaul basketball was when former AD Bill Bradshaw began undercutting Joey Meyer, especially with CPS coaches, by preventing the admission of recruits who Ray had no problem getting in. The CPS was by and large the lifeblood of DePaul's success, and when coaches began pushing their players away from DePaul, it began their downward spiral.
You are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!
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The real death knell for DePaul basketball was when former AD Bill Bradshaw began undercutting Joey Meyer, especially with CPS coaches, by preventing the admission of recruits who Ray had no problem getting in. The CPS was by and large the lifeblood of DePaul's success, and when coaches began pushing their players away from DePaul, it began their downward spiral.
DePaul put Quentin Richardson, Bobby Simmons, Stephen Hunter and Lance McPherson in the NBA. There was a moment there where the program was back. But their real issue was their best commits, Kevin Garnett and Eddy Curry, went straight to NBA. And Ronnie Fields didn't get in.
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DePaul put Quentin Richardson, Bobby Simmons, Stephen Hunter and Lance McPherson in the NBA. There was a moment there where the program was back. But their real issue was their best commits, Kevin Garnett and Eddy Curry, went straight to NBA. And Ronnie Fields didn't get in.
Their real issue was recruiting kids who were going to the NBA draft under any conceivable circumstances.
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Look, a DePaul resurgence would mean we would likely lose to them once in awhile. I can take that as the price for a strong conference.
They have not figured out what we did years ago. You can scream all you want about fairness and balance, but at day's end, men's basketball pays the freight. "McGuire Money" has made a huge difference at Marquette in terms of the visibility and quality of the university. That's why our program is so well funded.
JLP needs to go. She hasn't figured out what university athletics is about -- money and visibility. You can have the best incollegiate tiddley winks team in the known universe, but who the he@l cares. Jean doesn't get it!
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1. Terrible arena (that situation will change)
2. Purnell was a bad hire
3. Lack of administrative support
4. Apathy amongst the fan base
5. No support from the metropolitan area.
DePaul can be fixed but it will require all the above points to be addressed. It looks like they are getting the new arena, hopefully it will be close to the El, or else it is money not well spent. Don't really know about point 2, as he has four years to rebuild but it may be a longer project than that. They are stuck with the AD until she retires which won't happen until the arena is built at the earliest. In the meantime until the arena is built,the one thing they can do to address point 4 and 5 and help the program is to modify their non conference scheduling philosophy. I would go with 100 percent cupcakes play them at their Lincoln Park campus site and then do one tournament. That way they would go into conference play each year with potentially 10-11 wins and a bit of momentum and student support. They had the campus site packed for the UIC game there earlier this year. With a non conference tail wind they might be able to draw a few more fans to the Allstate Arena and get lucky and win 6-7 games in conference, which may be good enough to get into the NIT. Do that a couple of years in a row and build off of that.
The other thing not on the above list is rebuilding the local relationships with the local Catholic and Public League. All they need to do is recruit 4 decent kids a year out of that talent pool. That is easier said than done, although they did do it in the past. DePaul is a more desirable school today than it was many years ago so with a decent recruiting coach a lot is possible.
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DePaul put Quentin Richardson, Bobby Simmons, Stephen Hunter and Lance McPherson in the NBA. There was a moment there where the program was back. But their real issue was their best commits, Kevin Garnett and Eddy Curry, went straight to NBA. And Ronnie Fields didn't get in.
Garnett couldn't get in anywhere. If I remember correctly, he was really the first HS kid who used the direct to NBA option since the ABA days. But he did it out of necessity because college wasn't an option available to him at that time.
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DePaul can be fixed but it will require all the above points to be addressed. It looks like they are getting the new arena, hopefully it will be close to the El, or else it is money not well spent. Don't really know about point 2, as he has four years to rebuild but it may be a longer project than that. They are stuck with the AD until she retires which won't happen until the arena is built at the earliest. In the meantime until the arena is built,the one thing they can do to address point 4 and 5 and help the program is to modify their non conference scheduling philosophy. I would go with 100 percent cupcakes play them at their Lincoln Park campus site and then do one tournament. That way they would go into conference play each year with potentially 10-11 wins and a bit of momentum and student support. They had the campus site packed for the UIC game there earlier this year. With a non conference tail wind they might be able to draw a few more fans to the Allstate Arena and get lucky and win 6-7 games in conference, which may be good enough to get into the NIT. Do that a couple of years in a row and build off of that.
The other thing not on the above list is rebuilding the local relationships with the local Catholic and Public League. All they need to do is recruit 4 decent kids a year out of that talent pool. That is easier said than done, although they did do it in the past. DePaul is a more desirable school today than it was many years ago so with a decent recruiting coach a lot is possible.
They had been scheduling like that and they still lose a couple every year that's how pathetic they've become.
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Garnett couldn't get in anywhere. If I remember correctly, he was really the first HS kid who used the direct to NBA option since the ABA days. But he did it out of necessity because college wasn't an option available to him at that time.
Was that because of deficient grades?
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They had been scheduling like that and they still lose a couple every year that's how pathetic they've become.
I am saying schedule the worst of the worst. Their non conference schedule this year still has teams that have been to the NCAA tournament and made noise like Lehigh. Get a bunch of low end SWAC teams etc
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Garnett couldn't get in anywhere. If I remember correctly, he was really the first HS kid who used the direct to NBA option since the ABA days. But he did it out of necessity because college wasn't an option available to him at that time.
Didn't Shawn Kemp do that before Garnett?
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Didn't Shawn Kemp do that before Garnett?
Not right out of high school. He went to Kentucky for less than a semester before leaving, then went to some JUCO second semester.
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Was that because of deficient grades?
I'm not sure if it was grades, per se, or just an unusual transcript. He spent his first 3 years of HS in South Carolina and then transferred to Farragut in Chicago, where he and Ronnie Fields ran roughshod. I think there were some shady academic issues and I just remember nobody was going to admit him.
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Here is a list of High School to NBA draftees:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_high_school_draftees
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Oliver Purnell is a slacker's dream. The man has been a Division I head coach since Ronald Reagan was President, and has exactly ZERO NCAA Tournament wins to his name.
In spite of this, he somehow not only keeps getting work, but keeps getting work at better and better jobs!
Radford (1988-1991)
Old Dominion (1991-1994)
Dayton (1994-2003)
Clemson (2003-2010)
DePaul (2010-)
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Nothing wrong with DePaul. They beat us. We had umtine turnovers and wild shots. They played smart.
Garrett and Crockett. Plus a center named Hanel showed some of Luke's shortcomings.
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Nothing wrong with DePaul. They beat us. We had umtine turnovers and wild shots. They played smart.
Garrett and Crockett. Plus a center named Hanel showed some of Luke's shortcomings.
DePaul won cause they hit shots and MU turned the ball over 15 times. I wouldn't say they played smart. They had one more assist than turnover. It was an ugly game by both sides.
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Nothing wrong with DePaul. They beat us. We had umtine turnovers and wild shots. They played smart.
Garrett and Crockett. Plus a center named Hanel showed some of Luke's shortcomings.
Nothing wrong with DePaul?
Marquette has a rookie coach with a roster of eight who only played seven against the Demons, had lost four times prior to January 1st, and was picked in pre-season to finish seventh in a 10 team league and yet multiple media members Wednesday said DePaul "pulled the upset" on Marquette.
When you "pull an upset" with a win against a program in a first year coaching transition and do so in your own gym, in essence your program has become so irrelevant as to never expect to win a game no matter the location. I'd say there's something "wrong" with that untenable position.