Per Mark Miller... Matt Heldt just committed to MU

[ThatDude]

Barkley was 6'6"

Barkely was LISTED at 6'6. His real height is 6'4

[ThatDude]

He got pulled against Xavier after two straight possessions where he took quick shots and did not score.

So Buzz pulling him was justified?

[Class71]

Agreed.  He is a 6'5" 200 lbs SF.  He is basically the same size as Vander Blue, except a worse shooter and less able to play the PG position.

Vander's problem was he was not a good enough shooter to play SG in the NBA and not proven at the point.  Tokoto is more athletic than Vander, but is going to suffer the same problems at the next level.

Burton, may be able to develop the NBA game despite his size limitations.  He needs to continue to work on his shot so that he can be more versatile, but his strength will go a long ways to help him overcome height issues.

Comparing Vander vs. Deonte as freshman there is little competition IMHO. Deonte has a presence and strength that Vander simply did not have.  Agree on the shooting, however.

[NersEllenson]

He got pulled against Xavier after two straight possessions where he took quick shots and did not score.

Which is yet another example of Buzz being an awful coach last year.  Buzz's leash was WAY too short with ironically, some of his most talented players - Burton, Mayo, Steve, Dawson - and way too long with some of his most limited players.

You don't pull a kid who is tearing a team up all game long..and basically in the zone...out for missing two shots in a row...regardless if they were early in the possession or late in the possession. (Especially not for the last 6:30 of 7:00 minutes of a must win game.) Given our severe deficiencies at the guard position last year...I had ZERO problem with Burton putting up shots...early..and often...because if not...many times our offense was bogged down and taking a worse quality shot than what Burton could get/create early..or at any time he wanted.

[brandx]

First name basis??

Almost.

I knew his first name.

[forgetful]

Comparing Vander vs. Deonte as freshman there is little competition IMHO. Deonte has a presence and strength that Vander simply did not have.  Agree on the shooting, however.

I would agree.  My comment was in reference to Tokoto although the shooting is definitely relevant to Deonte also.  Deonte is a beast.

Tokoto and Vander though are actually quite comparable. 

The threads bouncing from topic to topic make it hard to figure out sometimes.

[keefe]

Almost.

I knew his first name.

Well, that makes it official then. Was he comfortable addressing you as brand?

[real chili 83]

Deonte was a beast on offense.  His lapses on defense led to way too many baskets, which often neutralized his offensive output.

If he gets it dialed in on defense this year...tough, stick to you man defense, he will be something special. 

[mileskishnish72]

Deonte is scary athletic. His D needs to improve (and probably will). He will need to know how to stay on the floor (avoid fouling).

[keefe]

He will need to know how to stay on the floor (avoid fouling).

That is the number one problem for Burton.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

And, Deonte probably is not 6'4" ......   

He is...when he's standing on his tippytoes

[tower912]

So, not as tall as Vander, but going to make the league as a small forward.   

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

+1,000,000

I look at the rankings like everyone else does.  It may give some insight on a players potential, but some fans, and not just here by a long shot, absolutely obsess about it.  Jamail Jones was another top 100 who got here and showed he can't play at a high D-1 level. 

I couldn't care less if Heldt winds up being a top 100 before arriving at MU.  I'm good right now with his size and skill set.  We'll just have to wait and see until then.

Our culture always wants to hype and heap greatness on someone well before they're in a position to show whether they have what it takes or not.  The top 100 in football and basketball recruiting is just another example.  And it's not just limited to whether a guy makes it in the top 100.  I'm willing to bet we'd all laugh, mock, and smear the rankings of 2,3,5,10 years ago, and who was near the top of the top 100.   Brian Butch was supposed to be the second coming according to all the rankings and Ryan thought so little of his readiness to play out of the gate he redshirted him!  Tokoto is another example, highly ranked, sickening amount of hype, does anyone feel bad he didn't wind up at MU?  He's been extremely pedestrian at UNC thus far.

On a specific player basis, you are 100% correct, we shouldn't get that tied into a specific ranking.

HOWEVER, on the whole, most good teams have highly ranked guys, and most good players were highly ranked.

So, I wouldn't stress about Matt Heldt's ranking specifically, as not all players and situations are created equal.

If we want to look at rankings, I'd look at Wojo's composite numbers for all of the guys he's bringing in, that's probably a more accurate way of looking at it.

[NersEllenson]

So, not as tall as Vander, but going to make the league as a small forward.   

Have you ever played against a guy who is significantly bigger, stronger, and more athletic than you - but shorter by 3-4"?  Your 3-4" of height don't compensate for the areas the shorter, bigger, stronger, more athletic guy has on you.

And btw - Vander's biggest problem - like Jamil - is that though they are athletic...they both play very erect (insert jokes here) - neither plays with a low center of gravity, neither have a great first step burst, and neither are able to get low and turn the corner well on a baseline drive, or drive in general...D-Wade was a great example of this in his prime..look how low to the floor he could play...even though he was 6'3".  They  both can jump well though...which is one measure of athleticism...but it is the total package of athletic gifts that matter in basketball....and Burton has that combination.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Have you ever played against a guy who is significantly bigger, stronger, and more athletic than you - but shorter by 3-4"?  Your 3-4" of height don't compensate for the areas the shorter, bigger, stronger, more athletic guy has on you.

And btw - Vander's biggest problem - like Jamil - is that though they are athletic...they both play very erect (insert jokes here) - neither plays with a low center of gravity, neither have a great first step burst, and neither are able to get low and turn the corner well on a baseline drive, or drive in general...D-Wade was a great example of this in his prime..look how low to the floor he could play...even though he was 6'3".  They  both can jump well though...which is one measure of athleticism...but it is the total package of athletic gifts that matter in basketball....and Burton has that combination.

I LOVE Burton as a player, and his athletic ability and skill set are rare.

With this said, there aren't many guys with his make-up at the next level. Not saying that it's impossible, but he's going to have to be elite in several areas to make it.

[noblewarrior]

Burton's shot will evolve and he'll be a versitile 2G in the league... Be able to switch to SF when needed... Simple!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

If Burton makes the association, it will be as a bruising 2 guard. He is simply too small to play the small forward position. In order to make the league, he needs to work on...well...everything, but specifically his shooting and defense.

[brandx]

Burton's shot will evolve and he'll be a versitile 2G in the league... Be able to switch to SF when needed... Simple!

Being a 2 guard in the NBA is NOT about his shot evolving!

[noblewarrior]

The evolution of a well rounded game!  He has all sorts of work to do but the base physical aspects are there...  For everything I've read, he's a hard worker, which combined with natural talent usually translates to higher levels of success... Isn't this coaching staff emphasizing skill developement? Looks like a 2G to me if he makes it to the association.

[BCHoopster]

The evolution of a well rounded game!  He has all sorts of work to do but the base physical aspects are there...  For everything I've read, he's a hard worker, which combined with natural talent usually translates to higher levels of success... Isn't this coaching staff emphasizing skill developement? Looks like a 2G to me if he makes it to the association.

 

His shot needs work, it comes off his fingers like a knuckle ball, needs to improve on that.  Barkley was not much taller, but was a Warrior.  Needs to learn how to use his body to block
out.  Charles did that, and then took the ball full court, no one wanted to stop him.

[bilsu]

I see Burton as a four year player unless he does something dumb like Vander. Burton bigger and stronger than Vander. Vander quicker, better defender and ball handler. Burton the better offensive player. I hope Burton makes the NBA, but I think with his height it is a long shot. He is athletic, but virtually everyone in the NBA is athletic.

[ATWizJr]

On a specific player basis, you are 100% correct, we shouldn't get that tied into a specific ranking.

HOWEVER, on the whole, most good teams have highly ranked guys, and most good players were highly ranked.

So, I wouldn't stress about Matt Heldt's ranking specifically, as not all players and situations are created equal.

If we want to look at rankings, I'd look at Wojo's composite numbers for all of the guys he's bringing in, that's probably a more accurate way of looking at it.

What happened to guns?

[NersEllenson]

 

His shot needs work, it comes off his fingers like a knuckle ball, needs to improve on that.  Barkley was not much taller, but was a Warrior.  Needs to learn how to use his body to block
out.  Charles did that, and then took the ball full court, no one wanted to stop him.

Kind of like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcfkPuqUu8s

Give Burton 2 more years of strength and conditioning work at MU under Todd Smith...and he'll be a monster as a junior.  His height doesn't concern me in the least.  He can get/create on his own a good* shot off ANYTIME he wants...and not a lot of guys have that ability at the high major level.  Vander couldn't, Jamil couldn't.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

What happened to guns?

Guns don't fit my liberal agenda

(kidding).

"canned goods & ammo" was terminology used in another thread, and I liked how it sounded. Makes me sound like a doomsday prepper.

[BCHoopster]

Kind of like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcfkPuqUu8s

Give Burton 2 more years of strength and conditioning work at MU under Todd Smith...and he'll be a monster as a junior.  His height doesn't concern me in the least.  He can get/create on his own a good* shot off ANYTIME he wants...and not a lot of guys have that ability at the high major level.  Vander couldn't, Jamil couldn't.

Exactly, who wants to stop that!  Add 15-20 lbs. more of muscle and for sure in 4 years we will have a chance to play in the league.