Per Mark Miller... Matt Heldt just committed to MU

[Lennys Tap]

You sure about this math, Lenny?

In the Non Adjusted Fenwick Top 100 I'm sure.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Not sure if this is directed at me but I can assure you that I have never posted on this board until recently. I chose the Black Swan name because as a kid I thought that Lackey was the scariest dude I had ever seen and despite being in a Notre Dame house, I did like watching MU.

That's cool.  Believe me, that admission alone puts you light years ahead of the clownhole that used it previously and now goes by River Rat. 

[Earl Tatum]

Let it go----State of Wisconsin just came up with an elite bunch of traditionals. You want players who can play and know all facets of the game. Doesn't make any difference of color. So drop the stupid responses on color.
Would be a topper if Henry and stone would be here. Throw in LOONEY AND KOENIG.  WOW!

[Galway Eagle]

Let it go----State of Wisconsin just came up with an elite bunch of traditionals. You want players who can play and know all facets of the game. Doesn't make any difference of color. So drop the stupid responses on color.
Would be a topper if Henry and stone would be here. Throw in LOONEY AND KOENIG.  WOW!

Ya! Don't these players now that every top 100 wisconsin prospect has to go to Marquette?!

[mileskishnish72]

Despite the glare the Black Swan cut a wide swath through the fields of feminity while at MU.

[HutchwasClutch]

How many stars were Mayo and Gardner? Fewer than Juan Anderson and Erik Williams, if I'm not mistaken. How many stars was the big center who just followed Buzz to VaTech? Is he a stud?

How many 4- and 5-star recruits did Wichita State have? How many did Butler have when it went to consecutive title games?

Rankings are fun ... until the players actually hit the court and we can see who can play and who can't.

+1,000,000

I look at the rankings like everyone else does.  It may give some insight on a players potential, but some fans, and not just here by a long shot, absolutely obsess about it.  Jamail Jones was another top 100 who got here and showed he can't play at a high D-1 level. 

I couldn't care less if Heldt winds up being a top 100 before arriving at MU.  I'm good right now with his size and skill set.  We'll just have to wait and see until then.

Our culture always wants to hype and heap greatness on someone well before they're in a position to show whether they have what it takes or not.  The top 100 in football and basketball recruiting is just another example.  And it's not just limited to whether a guy makes it in the top 100.  I'm willing to bet we'd all laugh, mock, and smear the rankings of 2,3,5,10 years ago, and who was near the top of the top 100.   Brian Butch was supposed to be the second coming according to all the rankings and Ryan thought so little of his readiness to play out of the gate he redshirted him!  Tokoto is another example, highly ranked, sickening amount of hype, does anyone feel bad he didn't wind up at MU?  He's been extremely pedestrian at UNC thus far.

[GGGG]

Hutch, you are picking out all exceptions to the rule and saying "hey, the rule sucks."

For sh*ts and giggles, I went through the Scout top 10 from 2, 3, 5 and 10 years out, and many of them in the NBA.  A quick look at the top 100 shows that a great number of them had solid college careers at least, and if I looked through them person by person I am sure many of them are making money playing basketball somewhere.

Even the two individuals you cite are interesting.  Brian Butch was redshirted sure.  But by the end of his career was first team all Big Ten.  You say Tokoto has been "pedestrian?"  He averaged 30 mpg as a sophomore.  9.3/5.8/3.0.  That is pretty damn good playing for team like North Carolina.  I would LOVE to have him at Marquette!!!  (Not gonna happen.)

We say this stuff every...time...we get a commit from someone outside the top 100.  I agree with you in that I like Heldt and that he seems like a late bloomer who can really make an impact.  But that doesn't mean the ratings system is inaccurate.  By and large, the top 10 is better than the next 10.  The top 100 is better than the next 100. 

Exceptions?  No doubt.  But don't fool yourself into thinking they are anything but exceptions.

[Tugg Speedman]

+1,000,000

I look at the rankings like everyone else does.  It may give some insight on a players potential, but some fans, and not just here by a long shot, absolutely obsess about it.  Jamail Jones was another top 100 who got here and showed he can't play at a high D-1 level. 

I couldn't care less if Heldt winds up being a top 100 before arriving at MU.  I'm good right now with his size and skill set.  We'll just have to wait and see until then.

Our culture always wants to hype and heap greatness on someone well before they're in a position to show whether they have what it takes or not.  The top 100 in football and basketball recruiting is just another example.  And it's not just limited to whether a guy makes it in the top 100.  I'm willing to bet we'd all laugh, mock, and smear the rankings of 2,3,5,10 years ago, and who was near the top of the top 100.   Brian Butch was supposed to be the second coming according to all the rankings and Ryan thought so little of his readiness to play out of the gate he redshirted him!  Tokoto is another example, highly ranked, sickening amount of hype, does anyone feel bad he didn't wind up at MU?  He's been extremely pedestrian at UNC thus far.

Wasn't Tokoto so hyped that he had a party at restaurant with a zillion supporters and made his decision to go to UNC live on TV?  And wasn't he being praised as one of the best players in state of Wisconsin history?

Fast forward to 2015 years and MU alone could have five Wisconsin players better than him ... Duane, Burton, Fischer, Henry and Stone.  And don't forget about Looney.

Hype versus reality.

[GGGG]

Tokoto had a very solid sophomore year.  If Duane, Burton or Fischer had that year, we would be thrilled.  You guys need to pay more attention.

[MU82]

Hutch, you are picking out all exceptions to the rule and saying "hey, the rule sucks."

For sh*ts and giggles, I went through the Scout top 10 from 2, 3, 5 and 10 years out, and many of them in the NBA.  A quick look at the top 100 shows that a great number of them had solid college careers at least, and if I looked through them person by person I am sure many of them are making money playing basketball somewhere.

Even the two individuals you cite are interesting.  Brian Butch was redshirted sure.  But by the end of his career was first team all Big Ten.  You say Tokoto has been "pedestrian?"  He averaged 30 mpg as a sophomore.  9.3/5.8/3.0.  That is pretty damn good playing for team like North Carolina.  I would LOVE to have him at Marquette!!!  (Not gonna happen.)

We say this stuff every...time...we get a commit from someone outside the top 100.  I agree with you in that I like Heldt and that he seems like a late bloomer who can really make an impact.  But that doesn't mean the ratings system is inaccurate.  By and large, the top 10 is better than the next 10.  The top 100 is better than the next 100. 

Exceptions?  No doubt.  But don't fool yourself into thinking they are anything but exceptions.

I don't know about Hutch. All I say is, "Don't obsess over this stuff, because we don't really know."

Yes, I'd love to have a bunch of top-25 studs. But history shows that lots of non-top-50 types go on to be superstars. Lots.

I have little reason to doubt your findings of the success of top 100s. I guess I have less problem hyping those than I do with the way some folks casually, cavalierly dismiss everybody who isn't a top 100.

I'm not cherry-picking here. Right off the top of my head, I can rattle off numerous non-4 or non-5 stars who very recently have gone on to be outstanding college players.

I'm happy about every one of Wojo's recruits, and I'll be happy if Henry joins 'em.

[HutchwasClutch]

Tokoto had a very solid sophomore year.  If Duane, Burton or Fischer had that year, we would be thrilled.  You guys need to pay more attention.

You're that excited about 9 ppg out of Tokoto?   Someone that was a consensus, what, top 20 player, coming out of high school?  If he had been somewhere in the 60's,70's, 80's, I'd say he was probably rated appropriately.

Butch had ONE season where he averaged double digit scoring.  He never averaged 7 rebounds per game in his UW career.  Are you really saying he didn't turn out severely overrated going into UW?

There are hits and misses galore in top 100 rankings.  Our own program is an example.

[Jay Bee]

Tokoto had a very solid sophomore year.  If Duane, Burton or Fischer had that year, we would be thrilled.  You guys need to pay more attention.

No. If Burton had a similar year, I'd be disappointed.

Tokoto has shown improvement where you'd expect - defensively, lower turnovers, but still has a lot of work to do offensively. MU needs more from all three that you named than Tokoto gave last year offensively as a medium-usage guy with a high turnover rate for his position, and a total shot % that would have placed him behind only the following on MU's team last year: Dawson, DWill,  Juan & Steve.

Tokoto will be fine, but his sophomore year was underwhelming and MU fans would be nuts to be 'thrilled' with a similar performance by Duane, Burton or Fischer.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Wasn't Tokoto so hyped that he had a party at restaurant with a zillion supporters and made his decision to go to UNC live on TV?  And wasn't he being praised as one of the best players in state of Wisconsin history?

Fast forward to 2015 years and MU alone could have five Wisconsin players better than him ... Duane, Burton, Fischer, Henry and Stone.  And don't forget about Looney.

Hype versus reality.

Tokoto is likely better than at least 3 of those guys and potentially 4.

[pbiflyer]

Could we change the title of this thread? It has nothing to do with Heidt.
A more appropriate title would be "another hijacked thread pissing match, just like most of the others."

[keefe]

Could we change the title of this thread? It has nothing to do with Heidt.
A more appropriate title would be "another hijacked thread pissing match, just like most of the others."

I guess you have never sat in a bar with a group of guys and talked sheet over lagers because Scoop has the very same dynamic. Go with the flow, man

[forgetful]

Tokoto had a very solid sophomore year.  If Duane, Burton or Fischer had that year, we would be thrilled.  You guys need to pay more attention.

Tokoto also shot 22% from 3 and 50% from the FT line.  If he had played at MU last year, Scoop would have been calling for his head and hoping that he transfers out at the end of the year.

Not saying that is the right assessment, but that is what would have happened.

[4everwarriors]

Tokoto's next stop is the Association. I'd be thrilled with a playa like that, white, black, Jew, or gentile.

[keefe]

Tokoto is likely better than at least 3 of those guys and potentially 4.

Not saying I wouldn't be happy with JP but I am more than satisfied with the WI guys who chose to be at Marquette

[Nukem2]

Tokoto's next stop is the Association. I'd be thrilled with a playa like that, white, black, Jew, or gentile.

Tokoto is a real long shot for the NBA at this point.

[ThatDude]

Tokoto had a very solid sophomore year.  If Duane, Burton or Fischer had that year, we would be thrilled.  You guys need to pay more attention.

+1000

[ThatDude]

Tokoto is likely better than at least 3 of those guys and potentially 4.

I completely agree. But Burton is the best of them all. Im just saying

[NersEllenson]

Tokoto had a very solid sophomore year.  If Duane, Burton or Fischer had that year, we would be thrilled.  You guys need to pay more attention.

I'll guarantee you Burton will far exceed Tokoto's sophomore stats.  Burton will be a monster this upcoming season...as a junior...forget about it...probably early entry candidate at that point.

[keefe]

I'll guarantee you Burton will far exceed Tokoto's sophomore stats. 

I am excited to see how Burton explodes this season. How this kid only played 12 mpg on a team that struggled is mind boggling. Bert was an idiot.

[Freeport Warrior]

Tokoto had a very solid sophomore year.  If Duane, Burton or Fischer had that year, we would be thrilled.  You guys need to pay more attention.

Agree. Tokoto is a defensive stud and his game is on the rise. Would love to have him on our team.

[Nukem2]

I'll guarantee you Burton will far exceed Tokoto's sophomore stats.  Burton will be a monster this upcoming season...as a junior...forget about it...probably early entry candidate at that point.

Agree with your thought re Deonte, though I think it will be hard for him to be an early entry candidate given his "short" stature which pretty much slots him as a 2G in the NBA.  Needs to really work on his handle and his left hand and his defense to be a 2 in the NBA.  His conditioning was also an issue as a frosh, so he needs to work on that as well.