Is Danny Manning a serious candidate?

[Cheeks]

Cheeks,

You are Cords’ buddy...why did he like to buck the data?  He hired three out of four of those assistants into HC jobs including Wojo.

I think you are ignoring what I originally said which is sometimes assistants IS the way to go.  Necessary, an infusion of young blood, etc.  Certain situations call for it.  But as I've also said, at some point when do we graduate from that risk taking?

In terms of Cords....I would hazzard to guess it was because after Dukiet we couldn't get anyone other than a Tony Barone type and at times you need the young and fresh approach, the hungry guy, especially when you have nothing to lose.  When we hired KO, we had nothing to lose.  Needed a recruiter, that's what we got.  Coming off Deane, the same perspective and I saw it first hand having worked for Deane and Crean, the difference was night and day in terms of optimism, what we could be how to approach things with energy.  It was going to be Snyder or Crean, both assistants and both with energy...it's what we needed at the time.

There is no universal answer here, as I've also continued to say...not sure why people are ignoring this.  Let me ask this, if we were able to get Bennett as we tried 5 years ago would you have wanted Wojo or Bennett?   I've been on the Wojo bandwagon for a long long time, much longer than most here....the constant complaints about the Power Point, or that all he could do is coach Duke kids that were 5 stars....it was epic.  Hell, some of still going on only 2 months ago.

That doesn't change that 99.9% of people here would have wanted Bennett and obviously so.  Because he had a track record of success.  For the SAME reason some in this very thread wanted Danny Manning, or Ben Howland or we could dig up any other old threads with other options...because known quantities are easier to digest than unknown...that's the risk quotient. Would you not agree? 

I hope we don't need to make a decision for a decade plus, but if we do, I would love it if we have candidates that are less risky and we don't have to deal with our fans in year 5 complaining about power point presentations.  I'm all in on Wojo and have been for a long time, that isn't changing.

[Pakuni]

So if I got this right...

Marquette has done very well when hiring well-established assistants from P5 programs (KO, Crean, Wojo) and not so well when hiring head coaches away from other schools (Deane, Dukiet), but there's an argument over which is the better philosophy for MU?

[Cheeks]

Marquette has done very well when hiring well-established assistants from P5 programs (KO, Crean, Wojo) and not so well when hiring head coaches away from other schools (Deane, Dukiet), but there's an argument over which is the better philosophy for MU?

MU has thus far taken a different approach than more than 95% of power schools and had great success in doing so.  Is it luck, are they bucking the norm, or will this be the continued approach in the future because since it worked the last few times it is bound to work in the future.

[Herman Cain]

Mack and Holtmann were painful to me because they were departures of good coaches from the "New" Big East. Some might take it as a sign that the conference isn't desirable to coach in. Or maybe they had it with having to face Wright, Cooley, Wojo, et al twice a year. 

In Holtmanns case it was pure money. As he went from the poorest team in The Big East to the richest team in the Big Ten.

Mack went to a borderline Blue Blue Blood with a big money guarantee and more importantly low expectations given the situation . So he can take his time and build that program up properly. Kind of a once in a lifetime thing.

[Lennys Tap]

So if I got this right...

Marquette has done very well when hiring well-established assistants from P5 programs (KO, Crean, Wojo) and not so well when hiring head coaches away from other schools (Deane, Dukiet), but there's an argument over which is the better philosophy for MU?

But what's 50 years of history/empirical evidence when measured against Chico's opinion?

[Lennys Tap]

I think you are ignoring what I originally said which is sometimes assistants IS the way to go.  Necessary, an infusion of young blood, etc.  Certain situations call for it.  But as I've also said, at some point when do we graduate from that risk taking?

99.9% of people here would have wanted Bennett and obviously so.  Because he had a track record of success.  For the SAME reason some in this very thread wanted Danny Manning, or Ben Howland or we could dig up any other old threads with other options...because known quantities are easier to digest than unknowns.

Danny Manning wasn't a risk? Kevin Stallings (your guy, run out of Vandy, don't even know if he's still coaching) wasn't a risk? Bob Dukiet wasn't a risk? Their floor was every bit as low as Crean's, Buzz's or Wojo's. Their ceiling was (IMO) a great deal lower.

[Lennys Tap]

Yes, it is an opinion. Of course it is an opinion.  My "proof" is in the data.  Tell me, why is it that nearly 97% of the time the P5 schools go one direction, and we are vastly different than that only doing it 40% of the time?  In my opinion, the risk level is higher because there is no track record.  The P5 schools don't want to take that risk for fear of backlash from their fans.  That is my opinion.  The data is the data.

CYA for the AD. When a Danny Manning or a Bob Dukiet prove to br=e an awful fit/hire the AD has an excuse for his bad judgement. If someone without a track record fails the AD is on the limb by himself. Most ADs put self preservation above bold, creative thinking.

[barfolomew]

Izzo was never a head coach anywhere but MSU.    A trivial adjustment, but a mistake nonetheless.

Ishpeming High School.
Go Hematites!
 

[MU82]

Erin Andrews would be proud.

Oh snap! You sure got me there, troll!

[Cheeks]

But what's 50 years of history/empirical evidence when measured against Chico's opinion?

If you want to go back in time, Eddie Hickey was an established coach at Creighton and SLU, hired by MU and he went 92-70, including 5 winning seasons out of 6.  Went to two NCAA tournaments back when only 24 teams were invited.  He bombed his last year going 5-21, otherwise had a very good record (87-49) going into final season.  MU has shown they can hire D1 coaches, too.  Hickey's squad won the '48 NIT championship.

[Cheeks]

Danny Manning wasn't a risk? Kevin Stallings (your guy, run out of Vandy, don't even know if he's still coaching) wasn't a risk? Bob Dukiet wasn't a risk? Their floor was every bit as low as Crean's, Buzz's or Wojo's. Their ceiling was (IMO) a great deal lower.

Yes, they were....which is why I said again and again no perfect way to do it.  I said HIGHER risk for assistants, not that others had no risk.  So this entire comment by you smacks of someone that didn't read what I said.

[Cheeks]

CYA for the AD. When a Danny Manning or a Bob Dukiet prove to br=e an awful fit/hire the AD has an excuse for his bad judgement. If someone without a track record fails the AD is on the limb by himself. Most ADs put self preservation above bold, creative thinking.

Hey, you might be right and in fact I suggested that it may be to ward off the fanbase from having to explain why they hired someone no one had heard of...though the AD will ultimately be judged by how his coaches fair in the long run, so that strategy isn't great long term.  However, even if that is a reason to have 97% of the ADs doing the same thing is quite the trick, don't you think?   Let's not forget that a heck of a lot of those hires within that 97% did just fine.

Of the last 25 NCAA championship head coaches in hoops, 24 came over to their championship school from the head coach of another D1 program. Only one was hired as an assistant...Kevin Ollie, who is no longer coaching.  I'm guessing if I went back a previous 25 years further, it would say much of the same.

[Cheeks]

Oh snap! You sure got me there, troll!

Oh snap!

[Pakuni]

If you want to go back in time, Eddie Hickey was an established coach at Creighton and SLU, hired by MU and he went 92-70, including 5 winning seasons out of 6.  Went to two NCAA tournaments back when only 24 teams were invited.  He bombed his last year going 5-21, otherwise had a very good record (87-49) going into final season.  MU has shown they can hire D1 coaches, too.  Hickey's squad won the '48 NIT championship.

Very relatable.
Also, George Halas led the Chicago Bears to six NFL titles, proving that team owners make great head coaches.

[Cheeks]

Very relatable.
Also, George Halas led the Chicago Bears to six NFL titles, proving that team owners make great head coaches.

Al Davis was AFL coach of the year in 1963 finished with a winning record.  I believe there were others, but your sarcasm is noted.


Yes or no, has MU hired coaches that had D1 coaching experience? Yes

Yes or no, have some of those coaches done a good job at MU...gone to NCAA tournaments, NIT tournaments, winning records? Yes.

Yes or no, has MU hired assistant coaches that also have done a good job at MU...gone to NCAA tournaments, NIT tournaments, winning records? Yes

Yes or no, is there a perfect pattern that always works in hiring head coaches? No, nor has anyone said that to be the case.

[Galway Eagle]

If you want to go back in time, Eddie Hickey was an established coach at Creighton and SLU, hired by MU and he went 92-70, including 5 winning seasons out of 6.  Went to two NCAA tournaments back when only 24 teams were invited.  He bombed his last year going 5-21, otherwise had a very good record (87-49) going into final season.  MU has shown they can hire D1 coaches, too.  Hickey's squad won the '48 NIT championship.

Way to spin his record there with the 5/6 winning seasons. Yeah it's true, but just gloss over the fact that 13-12 is one of those 15-11 another. not exactly stellar records. Even his second ncaa appearance was only 16-11, cant believe we qualified

[Norm]

Why does everyone here lump in Mike Deane with Bob Dukiet, like they were equivalent coaching failures at Marquette? Mike Deane won 100 games faster than any MU coach before him and went to two NCAAs and two NITs. While Deane's recruiting tailed off, he still was a great bench coach and his teams won some big games against the likes of Cincinnati, Louisville, and others that had the Bradley Center rocking. Deane was so much better than Dukiet its an insult to put him at Dukiet's level.

[Cheeks]

Memory Lane, and I'm as guilty as the next person with whirlwind thoughts.  All of us are super smart, especially at predicting and stuff. 

Wojo on list of candidates  https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=43398.msg605895#msg605895

Martin on list https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=43161.0

Martin will get job  https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=43327.0

More Martin  https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=43351.0

Goodman on candidates  https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=43226.0

Wojo   https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=43518.msg609138#msg609138    (my opinions haven't changed)

Shaka no shaka done deal...Scott Drew squirmy  https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=43236.0

[Cheeks]

Way to spin his record there with the 5/6 winning seasons. Yeah it's true, but just gloss over the fact that 13-12 is one of those 15-11 another. not exactly stellar records. Even his second ncaa appearance was only 16-11, cant believe we qualified

Spin is telling the truth? Wow. OK.  Well, uhm I said 5 of 6 winning records.  That would be 100% accurate, just like I said.  Not sure how truth and facts are spinning, but hey it's 2019.

[Cheeks]

Why does everyone here lump in Mike Deane with Bob Dukiet, like they were equivalent coaching failures at Marquette? Mike Deane won 100 games faster than any MU coach before him and went to two NCAAs and two NITs. While Deane's recruiting tailed off, he still was a great bench coach and his teams won some big games against the likes of Cincinnati, Louisville, and others that had the Bradley Center rocking. Deane was so much better than Dukiet its an insult to put him at Dukiet's level.

Agree 100%.  He was solid, not great, but nowhere in comparison to Dukiet. Recruiting was his downfall.  I think the people trying to put Deane in Dukiet camp are the same people that are pushing a different narrative to make sure they win a Scoop argument  (also, guilty as charged of that practice).

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Why does everyone here lump in Mike Deane with Bob Dukiet, like they were equivalent coaching failures at Marquette? Mike Deane won 100 games faster than any MU coach before him and went to two NCAAs and two NITs. While Deane's recruiting tailed off, he still was a great bench coach and his teams won some big games against the likes of Cincinnati, Louisville, and others that had the Bradley Center rocking. Deane was so much better than Dukiet its an insult to put him at Dukiet's level.

Once Deane ran though O'Neill's recruits you saw him for what he was.  A good coach but not a great recruiter.  The team regressed considerably his last couple years and the Bradley Center was a tomb.  Sure he was better than Dukiet.  But he wasn't really successful and was rightfully fired.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Agree 100%.  He was solid, not great, but nowhere in comparison to Dukiet. Recruiting was his downfall.  I think the people trying to put Deane in Dukiet camp are the same people that are pushing a different narrative to make sure they win a Scoop argument  (also, guilty as charged of that practice).

Dukiet and Deane were fired.  O'Neill, Crean and Williams left on their own.  Wojo is still here.  That isn't a narrative.

[Dr. Blackheart]

It's "Chico's Vs. The Board Day".  He has been hitting more goalposts than Codey Parkey today.

[Cheeks]

Dukiet and Deane were fired.  O'Neill, Crean and Williams left on their own.  Wojo is still here.  That isn't a narrative.

Cleveland Browns fired Bill Bellichek.  Lots of good coaches get fired, lots of bad ones too.  KO, on that list was fired pretty much everywhere since. IU fired Crean.  Buzz tends to leave places (UNO, MU) for whatever reason. 

Dukiet and Deane were both head coaches at MU, both were fired. That's the extent of the similarities and if you knew them personally, you would say that was an understatement....whether it was socially, coaching, personality, relationships, etc.  Plus Mike couldn't play the Piano.

[Jon]

In Holtmanns case ...to the richest team in the Big Ten

Wait! Holtmann went to Michigan??

Ohio ain't the richest in either endowment or AD earnings