Jays probably not subbing correctly 😜Ha! ;D
Ranking teams before December is silly, Nova is clearly not a top 25 team.
The bigger outlook here is the BE is down this year, and is there for the taking. This either makes Woj’s job way easier, or ramps up the pressure even more.
Jays probably not subbing correctly 😜
Regardless of how good or bad the BE is, winning that ain’t gonna necessarily save wojo. We’ve got to go deep into the big dance man. Gotta go big or go...
Regardless of how good or bad the BE is, winning that ain’t gonna necessarily save wojo. We’ve got to go deep into the big dance man. Gotta go big or go...What? MU wins the BE.....and Wojo is losing his job? You may want a BE champ to go deep in the tourney.....but he’s not losing his job. Cmon now.
If Wojo wins the BE the temperature on his seat goes to near zero.
What? MU wins the BE.....and Wojo isn’t losing his job. You may want a BE champ to go deep in the tourney.....but he’s not losing his job. Cmon now.
Regardless of how good or bad the BE is, winning that ain’t gonna necessarily save wojo. We’ve got to go deep into the big dance man. Gotta go big or go...Yep. Read it again.
Yep. Read it again.
Still wrong.
If Wojo and MU win the BE......and get bounced in the first round.....Wojo is not losing his job.
“Necessarily”
One more time my man, I NEVER said anything about him LOSING his job
Too many other variables. At the end of the season, IF we win the BE, he will be able to put that in the good wojo column
No. You are wrong. Winning the Big East will guaranty that Wojo is coach next year...and a couple years after.
“Necessarily”Whatever—nice try.
One more time my man, I NEVER said anything about him LOSING his job
Too many other variables. At the end of the season, IF we win the BE, he will be able to put that in the good wojo column
Whatever—nice try.
I love the continued push of the Villanova analogy. If we were coming off a national championship I wouldn’t care if we went 0-30 - Wojo’s seat would be ice cold forever.
Brew and rocket are right. If we miss the tourney, we have to move on (brew). If we win a weakened BE, but get bounced in 1st rd, it buys another year or two, but that’s it (rocket).
There’s a schism in how people look to MU’s future with wojo, but let’s start with points of agreement: I’d bet nearly everyone agrees Wojo has been a fantastic recruiter and below-average coach.
I’d bet nearly everyone has been in disappointed in Wojo-era results. The difference in thought comes from how we see the future unfolding: some say 5 years have shown Wojo’s below-average coaching is not likely to improve and will prevent MU from reaching loftier heights (“past performance promises future results”). Others are more hopeful and say Wojo is growing into his role, and that if he’s armed with talent, will excel (“past performance does not promise future results”).
Both perspectives seem valid. But if this year is a loser, both perspectives should merge into the same place - things won’t be getting better. It’s both sides.
Brew and rocket are right. If we miss the tourney, we have to move on (brew). If we win a weakened BE, but get bounced in 1st rd, it buys another year or two, but that’s it (rocket).
There’s a schism in how people look to MU’s future with wojo, but let’s start with points of agreement: I’d bet nearly everyone agrees Wojo has been a fantastic recruiter and below-average coach.
I’d bet nearly everyone has been in disappointed in Wojo-era results. The difference in thought comes from how we see the future unfolding: some say 5 years have shown Wojo’s below-average coaching is not likely to improve and will prevent MU from reaching loftier heights (“past performance promises future results”). Others are more hopeful and say Wojo is growing into his role, and that if he’s armed with talent, will excel (“past performance does not promise future results”).
Both perspectives seem valid. But if this year is a loser, both perspectives should merge into the same place - things won’t be getting better. It’s both sides.
You don't speak for me, I guess I'm not part of the nearly everyone. He took over a team that had misaligned players, transfers, etc. The results are what I expected. Not disappointed nor enthralled, but have been what I thought they would be. The Big East turned out to be a lot better than Coach Williams said it would be, and that has to be factored in as well. The ability to shine in a league this tough with a rebuild was supposed to be easier with a decent, but not great conference.
This year has to make the tournament, finish top 4 in the conference, maybe top 3 to keep my expectations in check. If we don't make the tournament, then the fallout will take care of its sell. But we will make the tournament, will be a top 4 team in this conference, perhaps better, barring any injuries. People are freaking out over the first few games. Relax a little bit and let these guys come into their own.
Do people realize that we have exactly the record we were expected to have at this point?
I mean we haven't loss to North Dakota State....or Green Bay....or Nebraska Omaha. We lost to Indiana on the road.....a game we were expected to lose by all objective measures.....Pomeroy.....Vegas.....etc...
Just for context purposes.....in our elite 8 year.....We beat Southeastern Louisiana by 11....they were rated 285 by Pomeroy. We lost to Green Bay 49-47....they were 126th.
We beat North Carolina Central by 9......They were 164th.
We also got blown out by Florida 82-49........
Bad games happen......it is not unusual for MU teams in the past....even good MU teams...to struggle against cupcakes....and get blown out at times.....especially on the road against good teams.
In Crowder and DJO's last season we got blown out at home by Vandy........that was a good Vandy team but anybody who was there will never forget how lopsided that game was.......we literally could not make a shot in the first half.....halftime score 44-22.
Also lost to LSU by 8......that was a mediocre to bad LSU team.
Got blown out at ND 76-59.....
We haven't looked great......yet have still had comfortable margins in all of our buy games. We laid an egg against IU.....we have done it before and will do it again.....it happens in basketball....you aren't going to play great every game.
We will face teams with better talent...sometimes much better talent.....like Weds........and teams with similar talent that have great games will beat us if we don't play great..........I guess I have just watched too many games over the years to go off the deep end over clunkers. I watch other teams.....schools with talent that is FAR superior to ours struggle with teams they should blow out......Kentucky last night for instance.....
I enjoy the wins.....and get over the losses quicker now then i used to......I love MU but it's just sports.....
Do people realize that we have exactly the record we were expected to have at this point?
I mean we haven't loss to North Dakota State....or Green Bay....or Nebraska Omaha. We lost to Indiana on the road.....a game we were expected to lose by all objective measures.....Pomeroy.....Vegas.....etc....
Do people realize that we have exactly the record we were expected to have at this point?Can I get an Amen?
I mean we haven't loss to North Dakota State....or Green Bay....or Nebraska Omaha. We lost to Indiana on the road.....a game we were expected to lose by all objective measures.....Pomeroy.....Vegas.....etc...
Just for context purposes.....in our elite 8 year.....We beat Southeastern Louisiana by 11....they were rated 285 by Pomeroy. We lost to Green Bay 49-47....they were 126th.
We beat North Carolina Central by 9......They were 164th.
We also got blown out by Florida 82-49........
Bad games happen......it is not unusual for MU teams in the past....even good MU teams...to struggle against cupcakes....and get blown out at times.....especially on the road against good teams.
In Crowder and DJO's last season we got blown out at home by Vandy........that was a good Vandy team but anybody who was there will never forget how lopsided that game was.......we literally could not make a shot in the first half.....halftime score 44-22.
Also lost to LSU by 8......that was a mediocre to bad LSU team.
Got blown out at ND 76-59.....
We haven't looked great......yet have still had comfortable margins in all of our buy games. We laid an egg against IU.....we have done it before and will do it again.....it happens in basketball....you aren't going to play great every game.
We will face teams with better talent...sometimes much better talent.....like Weds........and teams with similar talent that have great games will beat us if we don't play great..........I guess I have just watched too many games over the years to go off the deep end over clunkers. I watch other teams.....schools with talent that is FAR superior to ours struggle with teams they should blow out......Kentucky last night for instance.....
I enjoy the wins.....and get over the losses quicker now then i used to......I love MU but it's just sports.....
Do people realize that we have exactly the record we were expected to have at this point?
I mean we haven't loss to North Dakota State....or Green Bay....or Nebraska Omaha. We lost to Indiana on the road.....a game we were expected to lose by all objective measures.....Pomeroy.....Vegas.....etc...
Just for context purposes.....in our elite 8 year.....We beat Southeastern Louisiana by 11....they were rated 285 by Pomeroy. We lost to Green Bay 49-47....they were 126th.
We beat North Carolina Central by 9......They were 164th.
We also got blown out by Florida 82-49........
Bad games happen......it is not unusual for MU teams in the past....even good MU teams...to struggle against cupcakes....and get blown out at times.....especially on the road against good teams.
In Crowder and DJO's last season we got blown out at home by Vandy........that was a good Vandy team but anybody who was there will never forget how lopsided that game was.......we literally could not make a shot in the first half.....halftime score 44-22.
Also lost to LSU by 8......that was a mediocre to bad LSU team.
Got blown out at ND 76-59.....
We haven't looked great......yet have still had comfortable margins in all of our buy games. We laid an egg against IU.....we have done it before and will do it again.....it happens in basketball....you aren't going to play great every game.
We will face teams with better talent...sometimes much better talent.....like Weds........and teams with similar talent that have great games will beat us if we don't play great..........I guess I have just watched too many games over the years to go off the deep end over clunkers. I watch other teams.....schools with talent that is FAR superior to ours struggle with teams they should blow out......Kentucky last night for instance.....
I enjoy the wins.....and get over the losses quicker now then i used to......I love MU but it's just sports.....
Do people realize that we have exactly the record we were expected to have at this point?
I mean we haven't loss to North Dakota State....or Green Bay....or Nebraska Omaha. We lost to Indiana on the road.....a game we were expected to lose by all objective measures.....Pomeroy.....Vegas.....etc...
Just for context purposes.....in our elite 8 year.....We beat Southeastern Louisiana by 11....they were rated 285 by Pomeroy. We lost to Green Bay 49-47....they were 126th.
We beat North Carolina Central by 9......They were 164th.
We also got blown out by Florida 82-49........
Bad games happen......it is not unusual for MU teams in the past....even good MU teams...to struggle against cupcakes....and get blown out at times.....especially on the road against good teams.
In Crowder and DJO's last season we got blown out at home by Vandy........that was a good Vandy team but anybody who was there will never forget how lopsided that game was.......we literally could not make a shot in the first half.....halftime score 44-22.
Also lost to LSU by 8......that was a mediocre to bad LSU team.
Got blown out at ND 76-59.....
We haven't looked great......yet have still had comfortable margins in all of our buy games. We laid an egg against IU.....we have done it before and will do it again.....it happens in basketball....you aren't going to play great every game.
We will face teams with better talent...sometimes much better talent.....like Weds........and teams with similar talent that have great games will beat us if we don't play great..........I guess I have just watched too many games over the years to go off the deep end over clunkers. I watch other teams.....schools with talent that is FAR superior to ours struggle with teams they should blow out......Kentucky last night for instance.....
I enjoy the wins.....and get over the losses quicker now then i used to......I love MU but it's just sports.....
I agree to a point. In a vacuum, yes we shouldn’t be freaking out. Also, I’m not even close to giving up on the season.
I think the angst comes from the fact this was supposed to be the year we jump forward, and our first real test we flunked. And we flunked it in the ways that have burned us consistently during the Wojo era.
I think this is still a tournament team. However, if the Big East is down this year, we need to start playing better soon so that we can get some resume wins. Otherwise, we will likely be living on the bubble.
I enjoy the wins.....and get over the losses quicker now then i used to......I love MU but it's just sports.....
I agree to a point. In a vacuum, yes we shouldn’t be freaking out. Also, I’m not even close to giving up on the season.
I think the angst comes from the fact this was supposed to be the year we jump forward, and our first real test we flunked. And we flunked it in the ways that have burned us consistently during the Wojo era.
I think this is still a tournament team. However, if the Big East is down this year, we need to start playing better soon so that we can get some resume wins. Otherwise, we will likely be living on the bubble.
This. And its not only the results themselves...the team just has not looked very good at all for any extended minutes whatsoever.
Do people realize that we have exactly the record we were expected to have at this point?
I mean we haven't loss to North Dakota State....or Green Bay....or Nebraska Omaha. We lost to Indiana on the road.....a game we were expected to lose by all objective measures.....Pomeroy.....Vegas.....etc...
Just for context purposes.....in our elite 8 year.....We beat Southeastern Louisiana by 11....they were rated 285 by Pomeroy. We lost to Green Bay 49-47....they were 126th.
We beat North Carolina Central by 9......They were 164th.
We also got blown out by Florida 82-49........
Bad games happen......it is not unusual for MU teams in the past....even good MU teams...to struggle against cupcakes....and get blown out at times.....especially on the road against good teams.
In Crowder and DJO's last season we got blown out at home by Vandy........that was a good Vandy team but anybody who was there will never forget how lopsided that game was.......we literally could not make a shot in the first half.....halftime score 44-22.
Also lost to LSU by 8......that was a mediocre to bad LSU team.
Got blown out at ND 76-59.....
We haven't looked great......yet have still had comfortable margins in all of our buy games. We laid an egg against IU.....we have done it before and will do it again.....it happens in basketball....you aren't going to play great every game.
We will face teams with better talent...sometimes much better talent.....like Weds........and teams with similar talent that have great games will beat us if we don't play great..........I guess I have just watched too many games over the years to go off the deep end over clunkers. I watch other teams.....schools with talent that is FAR superior to ours struggle with teams they should blow out......Kentucky last night for instance.....
I enjoy the wins.....and get over the losses quicker now then i used to......I love MU but it's just sports.....
Your post would carry legitimate weight, IF* the history of early season clunkers under Wojo, ALSO resulted in post-season success as we had under BUZZ.
So, just because Marquette University in the past would have a pre-season clunker (under Buzz or Crean) that is irrelevant and illogical because you fail to account for the most important aspect to our past success: The head coach.
IF* Wojo goes on and leads us to a Sweet 16 or Elite 8 this year, even being his biggest critic, I'll be able to give the guy some grace for an early season clunker next year. The problem is we've had the clunkers every year, and we've yet to win an NCAA game under Wojo.
He's yet to prove he can get the job done. Meanwhile, Buzz has his team at Va Tech 16 in the country with a solid neutral court win over at the time Number 12 Purdue last night.
He's talking about KenPom ranking.
MuMark and Ners are having two different conversations. MuMark is showing that a clunker in November is a single data point and not a good predictor of future success. Ners is talking about having faith in the head coach's ability to get the job done.
#FakeNews
#Lies
#Numberaren'tyoustrongsuit
#12isn't23
#BuzzhasthesamenumberofNCAAwinsatVTthatWojohas
Try Pomeroy rankings brah. As you saw our Number 24 ranking meant jack.
#Fake News - Buzz won 8 NCAA tourney games at MU. He also walked into a perinneal ACC cellar dweller that won 2 games the season before taking the helm, hadn't been to an NCAA tournament since 2007 and as a program has a total of 10 NCAA appearances, two of which are from Buzz.
Fair point. I'll still stand by my assertion that numbers aren't his strong suit since he thinks Kenpom 93 is the same as Kenpom 34.
Please learn to read. "BuzzhasthesamenumberofNCAAwinsatVTthatWojohas"
If you want to compare different schools, I think Wojo might have a couple of Duke rings lying around for you.
It's too easy with you DJOover. At least my other haters here can put forth some shred of a competent counterpoint/make their case in a respectable manner.
If you think so, more power to you. you said that clunkers were okay if we have the same postseason success as Buzz. We have. Your argument just fell apart, your welcome.
And btw - TAMU's attempt to assert the above was wrong - he used the 2016 team's final season ranking. The post I quoted was from November of 2016, when we were ranked 31 at time of the game, and finished the year at 32 (so you need to look at 2017 ranking.) But again, I understand the grasping at straws effort our most patient fans have, to support the performance thus far.
Hey pud! I'm fully aware. Fully aware dating back to 2015 that we'd be in this same spot with Wojo at the helm. But knock yourself out. Keep #respectingtheprocess to mediocrity.
I disagree. We looked very good against UMBC and Bethune Cookman. I'd also argue we looked good against Presbyterian but couldn't buy a shot. I think we started the game 2/17 on bunnies and unguarded jump shots.
Defense has looked much better to start the season. No comparison to last season, the problem of course being that in the one game against a quality team it looked exactly like last season. If that's who we really are then we are in trouble. I don't think that is true but could absolutely be wrong.
I think the reason people think "we haven't looked good" is the offense. We have been spoiled the past two seasons with elite level offense. This year it looks like we are going to instead have a very good offense. Because we are comparing it to past seasons we think the offense is terrible. If we compared it against other teams we would think differently.
You said you've been saying since 2015 that we would be in the same place with Wojo. Not 2016.
Hey pud! I'm fully aware. Fully aware dating back to 2015 that we'd be in this same spot with Wojo at the helm. But knock yourself out. Keep #respectingtheprocess to mediocrity.
It's too easy with you DJOover. At least my other haters here can put forth some shred of a competent counterpoint/make their case in a respectable manner.
If you think so, more power to you. you said that clunkers were okay if we have the same postseason success as Buzz. We have. Your argument just fell apart, your welcome.To me this feels like grasping at straws to somehow equate Wojo and Buzz as coaches. Simply put Buzz has a verifiable success record, makes more money, has longer term job security and is winning at a school with very little history of success. There is not an AD in America that would pick Wojo over Buzz to be their coach.
To me this feels like grasping at straws to somehow equate Wojo and Buzz as coaches. Simply put Buzz has a verifiable success record, makes more money, has longer term job security and is winning at a school with very little history of success. There is not an AD in America that would pick Wojo over Buzz to be their coach.
That said, Wojo can change all that. I hope he does. MU gives coaches great resources to win and many MU coaches have had great success. I can't name one thing that Wojo does not have to build a great program.
If I see the word "cupboard" in this thread I swear to God I will hunt down Topper's secret server bunker and nuke it into oblivion!Cupboard
(https://media.giphy.com/media/RhEvCHIeZAZ6E/giphy.gif)
Cupboard
What’s more grating—Ners or anti-Ners reactio. Discuss...
You're being obtuse TAMU. The thread I recycled about Wade's cheesy: #respecttheprocess was post Michigan debacle in November of 2016 - to which I said same sh$t different year after our Indiana loss. Here we are 2 years later going into an early season game, thinking we stand a good chance/comparably ranked/regarded and get our doors blown off.
The point in referencing 2015 is that it was Wojo's first year on the job, and I've been consistent since that time saying he doesn't have "it."
But if you want to be obtuse about it, it appears we reached the high water mark under Wojo in Year 3, and we regressed from 32 to 53 in spite of Wojo finally having "all his guys."
To the casual fan, if MU wins the Big East they’re wearing Big East Champs shirts for the next 8 years. I agree - Woj can buy a name brand winter coat if they won BE.
I'm guessing the 2 points that Loyola (MD) received were intended for Loyola-Chicago?
And not the team that is 1-3 that includes a home loss to Dartmouth
This is a question 4never or rocket should answer....what is worse for their patients...a root canal, or waiting too long for a root canal?
Definitely, waitin' two long is worse. Root canals ain't no big thang, hey?
Definitely, waitin' two long is worse. Root canals ain't no big thang, hey?
I chipped a tiny piece off of a ceramic restoration and my dentist is trying to tell me I need a crown now.
I am getting a second opinion. This guy's practice has fallen off in the past few years, and I think he just needs the revenue. Even the hygienist gave him some side eye when he made his recommendation.
Chick throwing some shade at 4ever. Boom!
Please learn to read. "BuzzhasthesamenumberofNCAAwinsatVTthatWojohas"
If you want to compare different schools, I think Wojo might have a couple of Duke rings lying around for you.
You know who else has some rings laying around? The janitors at Gillette Stadium. Should the Browns look to hire those guys?
Duke was successful before his arrival as a player or coach, and they have continued to be successful after his departure. Wojo has obviously been a part of some very good teams, but until he takes the next step on his own as a head coach, I don't think you can really give him that kind of credit just for having been on the staff.
You know who else has some rings laying around? The janitors at Gillette Stadium. Should the Browns look to hire those guys?
Duke was successful before his arrival as a player or coach, and they have continued to be successful after his departure. Wojo has obviously been a part of some very good teams, but until he takes the next step on his own as a head coach, I don't think you can really give him that kind of credit just for having been on the staff.
Well, yeah, but you forget how valuable those janitors were in the Patriots gameplans...
This still skirts around my point. Many who are dissatisfied with Wojo's performance point out lack of postseason success, which is entirely fair. What is unfair IMO is to compare 4 years of Wojo head coaching experience to 11 years of Buzz's head coaching experience. In the 4 years that Wojo has been at MU, and Buzz has been at VT they have the same amount of NCAA wins, despite Buzz being a better coach.
I don't know that comparing MU's success with VT's success is fair either. We have a rich basketball tradition, huge budget, great facilities, strong fanbase, etc. VT's basketball tradition is notably less impressive, making it harder to build a respectable program. In the 20 years leading up to Buzz's arrival at VT, they had 2 tournament appearances. For Wojo, MU had 12 appearances and a few pretty impressive runs. VT had 3 guys go pro while MU had 14. So I think it's pretty fair to say that Wojo had a little better starting point program-wise than Buzz did.
Results-wise, Buzz may have not won any post season games, but he has 2 appearances to Wojo's one. That's definitely a better result, especially for a fanbase that hasn't seen back to back tournament appearances since the Reagan administration. The VT program has been better under Buzz than it has in decades, maybe even the best it's ever been. For Marquette under Wojo, we have seen a decline from recent history. A fanbase that saw 8 straight tournament appearances prior to Wojo's arrival has now only gotten 1 in 4 years.
It depends on if kids these days are buying into a program tradition or what a coach has done. Personally I'd think that tradition has some merit but if wojo's in home visit was followed by buzz or crean walking in and saying "yeah but I'm actually responsible for all that success he was talking about" that'd be hard to compete against.
You're right 2 > 1 and Buzz has had better results. What I have found intriguing is that people here are acting like it is heads and shoulders above Wojo.
Wojo is 75-60 at MU
Buzz is 78-60 at VT
This should show you that some of the results are either perception "ACC is better than the BE deserving more bids" or scheduling. 3 wins in 4.10 seasons is not enough to say that Buzz is blowing Wojo out of the water as some seem to perceive.
Finally, your point that prior to Wojo we had enjoyed 8 straight appearances ignores Buzz's final season. I believe that we as a fanbase have subconsciously lumped that season in with all the frustrations aimed at the slow Wojo rebuild and I've seen it more than a few times on here.
I think its moreso based on tourney bids. What does Buzz have at VT - 3?
Cupboard
2. The past 2 years. It will be 3 this year.
It depends on if kids these days are buying into a program tradition or what a coach has done. Personally I'd think that tradition has some merit but if wojo's in home visit was followed by buzz or crean walking in and saying "yeah but I'm actually responsible for all that success he was talking about" that'd be hard to compete against.
You're right 2 > 1 and Buzz has had better results. What I have found intriguing is that people here are acting like it is heads and shoulders above Wojo.
Wojo is 75-60 at MU
Buzz is 78-60 at VT
This should show you that some of the results are either perception "ACC is better than the BE deserving more bids" or scheduling. 3 wins in 4.10 seasons is not enough to say that Buzz is blowing Wojo out of the water as some seem to perceive.
Finally, your point that prior to Wojo we had enjoyed 8 straight appearances ignores Buzz's final season. I believe that we as a fanbase have subconsciously lumped that season in with all the frustrations aimed at the slow Wojo rebuild and I've seen it more than a few times on here.
Some nice analysis and it is interesting to see the side by side of Buzz at VaTech and Wojo at MU. However, the relevant data point (that matters) is:
Buzz at MU and Wojo at MU.
Not much sense in comparing apples to oranges when you have an apples to apples comparison point.
Buzz is a better coach than Wojo. Probably time to just acknowledge as much and the topic can die. Unfortunately the Pilarz/Williams debacle ran off the best coach we had since Al. Tough shoes to fill...so far Wojo hasn't been up to the task, but he does fight and compete. 8-)
Except it's not apples to apples, Buzz was here for a year prior to build relationships, he inherited 4 of the greatest players MU has had, certainly all top 15 since Al. He was in a conference that did not have question marks and the media slamming it, he was coming off three NCAA appearances and a not too distant final four.
Buzz was the better coach (not the first time I have said this) but Buzz had two gang rapes he helped to cover up, multiple assaults, a couple minor recruiting violations, and a brawl at a club, plus how many undisclosed suspensions? I do not miss the constant headlines in the news about MU's basketball team and think there is a happy medium where you can win without them, but I don't think Buzz knows how.
Let's be a little more careful with your words here.
You in no way offended me. I have heard multiple stories related to the topic. You are making accusations that may not reflect the reality of what occurred or Buzz's role.
When you edit your post, I will edit my quote.
And yeah it is very obvious Buzz mishandled it. He was a Title IX disaster. But to say he "covered it up" is a little much.
nm not getting into this with you but I stand by it
Skianth. The first half of you post compares programs, not coaches, which is a different conversation IMO.
You're right 2 > 1 and Buzz has had better results. What I have found intriguing is that people here are acting like it is heads and shoulders above Wojo.
Wojo is 75-60 at MU
Buzz is 78-60 at VT
This should show you that some of the results are either perception "ACC is better than the BE deserving more bids" or scheduling. 3 wins in 4.10 seasons is not enough to say that Buzz is blowing Wojo out of the water as some seem to perceive.
The reason I brought up the comparison of the programs is that it plays a big role in the way the wins and losses are weighed. Buzz getting VT 3 consecutive 20-win seasons was a big deal because it hadn't happened it a long time there. He was able to do something that others had tried to do but weren't able to accomplish.
I think most people would agree that earning an at-large bid or getting 20+ wins at Chicago State would be more challenging, definitely more surprising, than doing it at Kentucky. And that's why I think the program comparisons matter.
The difference is that MU to VT is still P5 to P5. Chi St to UK is mid major to blue blood. You also should consider the second half of my post. 20 wins for VT is a big accomplishment, but if Buzz does not translate that into NCAA wins, even if he continues to get 20+ wins per season, fans will start to grumble, and you know what happens when you mess with happy.
After fighting my way through several waves of ninjas, lasers, sharks, laser sharks, and hold music, I finally made it through the bunker, bruised and bloodied.
I opened the server room door, bat in hand (all ammo was spent), to find a laughing, coke-addled Ron Paul shooting me in the nuts with a taser.
When I came to, I was on the bathroom floor of Arby's in a puddle of my own urine.
At least I think it was mine.
Topper 1, Barf 0.
OK fine, then change my Chicago State comparison to Depaul. The concept remains the same. (Side note - I tried to think of another school in addition to Depaul in a major conference that might have as bad a track record as VT, and I'm not sure if there is one. VT might have one of the worst basketball traditions of any power conference schools)
And while I agree that Buzz will need to turn the appearances into wins, I doubt that expectations will have changed for VT fans so quickly. There's still a honeymoon phase effect for a guy that was able to turn the program around in 2-3 years. When the time comes for demanding postseason wins, he has a resume that shows he can. I would be willing to be that he'll deliver a tournament win this year.
Anyone comparing Wojo to buzz as a head basketball coach is going to be disappointed at this point. Maybe he catches Buzz someday but not yet
Well, I think the comparisons to Virginia Tech may go away in 6 months anyway. Looking at the start under Billy Kennedy and how Jeff Goodman is already firing up the "Buzz is God's gift" campaign in November, I think you might see Buzz in College Station no later than April.Buzz had the team looking very good against Purdue. I watched the game and VT reminded me a lot of our 2011-12 team. Also worth noting the VT community is solidly in back of Buzz and he was out dancing on the floor again in one of his wins .
Buzz had the team looking very good against Purdue. I watched the game and VT reminded me a lot of our 2011-12 team. Also worth noting the VT community is solidly in back of Buzz and he was out dancing on the floor again in one of his wins .
Lipscomb just beat 16th ranked TCU by 9.Thank God we didn’t schedule Lipscomb.
Lipscomb just beat 16th ranked TCU by 9.
If anything, that convinces me more one of his legs is out the door.
Why?
It's the type of attention getting behavior that draws attention, just like the Goodman fluff articles and tweets.
At this point in his career, Buzz doesn’t need tame reporters or postgame theatrics to get a job like Texas A&M. He can just point to his tournament record at MU and his successful rebuild of the dumpster fire VT program and ask for $3.5 million per year. I don’t think he will, though, because that job would be a step down and he’s not being forced out of VT like he was at MU. If he moves again, it’ll be for something bigger.
Buzz had the team looking very good against Purdue. I watched the game and VT reminded me a lot of our 2011-12 team. Also worth noting the VT community is solidly in back of Buzz and he was out dancing on the floor again in one of his wins .
#17 UCLA beat Presbyterian 80-65 lats night. The Bruins led the Blue Hose 61-58 with under 8 minutes to play before UCLA put them away.
Gonzaga dissecting the Duke defense so far.......getting anything they want.Duke..... defense......
I wasn't impressed with the Zags before this game but they look great today. Up 42-31 with 3 minutes left.
ESPN
2016. Lonzo Ball
2017. Trae Young
2018. Zion W.
Non stop. Hope Zags destroy them.
Y kant wee bee like da Zags, hey?
Not ranked, but Wake Forest lost to Houston Baptist.
Buffalo on CBSSN from Belfast on Galway Eagle time.
#22 Mississippi State trailed 2-6 #327 McNesee State at half time before rallying in the second half and winning by 13
Preseason top 25 Clemson trailed in the second half to 2-6 #238 St. Peter's before winning by 5
Miami loses by 14 to Penn (who actually is a solid low major)
Alabama loses at home to Georgia State (another solid low major)
#22 Mississippi State trailed 2-6 #327 McNesee State at half time before rallying in the second half and winning by 13
Preseason top 25 Clemson trailed in the second half to 2-6 #238 St. Peter's before winning by 5
Miami loses by 14 to Penn (who actually is a solid low major)
Alabama loses at home to Georgia State (another solid low major)
#22 Mississippi State trailed 2-6 #327 McNesee State at half time before rallying in the second half and winning by 13
Preseason top 25 Clemson trailed in the second half to 2-6 #238 St. Peter's before winning by 5
Miami loses by 14 to Penn (who actually is a solid low major)
Alabama loses at home to Georgia State (another solid low major)
Yikes. Bama was up 21 with 14 minutes left.
Ouch. Miami has lost to Penn and Yale back to back.
VCU shot 28% but still upset their former coach at Texas, the Longhorns' third straight loss.
VCU shot 28% but still upset their former coach at Texas, the Longhorns' third straight loss.
That's a Shaka.Three loses in a row is referred to as a "Shaka" much like three strikes in a row in bowling is called a turkey?
Read it out loud. Think 'shocker'. You rock, warriorchick. I am seriously jealous I did not think of that.
If only you were as Smart as Warriorchick.
This thread makes me feel better that we haven't lost to the sub 250 teams on our schedule.
Let's hope we don't make an appearance in it if we lose to teams ranked 75-100 - the Georgetown's and DePaul's of our conference.
And in spite of Texas's 3 straight losses in Shaka's 4th year at the helm, they are ranked 36, exactly 2 spots behind us in Year 5 of the "rebuild."
If only you were as Smart as Warriorchick.
I hope we don't make an appearance either, but we probably will at least once. Because that's the nature of college basketball (and the point of this thread).
Sure. As usual...context matters. Losing to teams 75-100, while not great, is not as frustrating/concerning as struggling to beat teams Sub 250 on your home floor.
Exactly. One is a W the other is an L.
You’re full of bait material today. Trying to bait anyone into an argument today. Your game has grown old dude. You’re washed up. You need new material.
This thread makes me feel better that we haven't lost to the sub 250 teams on our schedule.
Let's hope we don't make an appearance in it if we lose to teams ranked 75-100 - the Georgetown's and DePaul's of our conference.
And in spite of Texas's 3 straight losses in Shaka's 4th year at the helm, they are ranked 36, exactly 2 spots behind us in Year 5 of the "rebuild."
Sure. As usual...context matters. Losing to teams 75-100, while not great, is not as frustrating/concerning as struggling to beat teams Sub 250 on your home floor.
Exactly. One is a W the other is an L.
You’re full of bait material today. Trying to bait anyone into an argument today. Your game has grown old dude. You’re washed up. You need new material.
Sure. As usual...context matters. Losing to teams 75-100, while not great, is not as frustrating/concerning as struggling to beat teams Sub 250 on your home floor.
This thread topic is silly. It's an exercise in trying to justfiy and continue to make room for mediocre 4.25 years of mediocre performance of Boy Wonder.
Didn't really know where to throw this but does anyone know why the ASU v Nevada game is:
A) Being played in LA
B) Starting at 11CST/9PST?
This thread topic is silly. It's an exercise in trying to justfiy and continue to make room for mediocre 4.25 years of mediocre performance of Boy Wonder.
Neither team was ranked but I4 beat 'ville. Does this help us? Hurt us? Or doesn't matter?
Well in the past, it would be a wash unless one of them ended the season closer to one of the quadrant cutoffs. With the NET, who da fook knows?
Busy day today, let's see what we got.
#2 Kansas trailed at half and gutted out a three point victory at home to the very solid but still inferior New Mexico State Aggies.
#9 Kentucky falls in overtime on a neutral court to a Seton Hall team ranked outside of the top 50 in KenPom
#11 Florida State managed an 8 point win that was within 5 points in the final minutes against a UConn team ranked near the back of the top 100 on a neutral court.
As pointed out by Floorslapper our resume took a slight hit as #16 Kansas State falls on the road by 1 to a Tulsa team not ranked in the top 100.
I don't believe their ranking, but #25 Furman was down at half to 2-8 sub 300 USC Upstate before a monster second half gave them a 14 point win.
Indiana State is 6-2 this season and ranked in the top 150 but they only escaped with an 8 point victory against D2 Truman State.
Northern Iowa isn't as good this season as they usually are but still a top 175 type squad. They trailed at half and then won by single digits against D3 Dubuque.
Arkansas is a top 50 squad this season but lost at home to Western Kentucky who is currently ranked outside the top 100.
Syracuse was ranked to start the season and is still top 20 in KenPom. But they trailed #80 Georgetown by 13 at half before squeaking out a 1 point win at home.
Colorado took on #173 UIC at home and the game was within 4 points with 2 minutes left. The Buffs ended with final 2 minutes and ended up winning by 12.
Finally, #85 San Diego State loses to #180 California.
Big one tonight. #17 and defending National Champs Villanova coached by HOFer Jay Wright loses to Ivy League Penn.
Also, the overranked but still ranked #23 Furman Paladins were only up 3 on half on lowly Charleston Southern (remember them?) and it was a single possession game late in the second half before winning by 8.
Didn't Furman also spank 'Nova?
Nova was way, way overrated. I said here in August that they would lose at least 5 games in the BE. I see no reason to change that prediction now.
Nova was way, way overrated. I said here in August that they would lose at least 5 games in the BE. I see no reason to change that prediction now.
Nova was way, way overrated. I said here in August that they would lose at least 5 games in the BE. I see no reason to change that prediction now.
Big one tonight. #17 and defending National Champs Villanova coached by HOFer Jay Wright loses to Ivy League Penn.
Also, the overranked but still ranked #23 Furman Paladins were only up 3 on half on lowly Charleston Southern (remember them?) and it was a single possession game late in the second half before winning by 8.
And after the Nova upset...
https://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/5-star-freshman-jahvon-quinerly-let-the-world-know-nova-was-his-second-choice-right-after-they-were-upset-by-penn
And after the Nova upset...
https://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/5-star-freshman-jahvon-quinerly-let-the-world-know-nova-was-his-second-choice-right-after-they-were-upset-by-penn
And after the Nova upset...Wow. Perhaps MU dodged a bullet.
https://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/5-star-freshman-jahvon-quinerly-let-the-world-know-nova-was-his-second-choice-right-after-they-were-upset-by-penn
And after the Nova upset...
https://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/5-star-freshman-jahvon-quinerly-let-the-world-know-nova-was-his-second-choice-right-after-they-were-upset-by-penn
Think we'll be finding out his third choice sooner or later.
The JQ saga has been something. I think it's funny that there were all these articles last season about Jay Wright blaming their bad 11-12? season on recruiting too many 5 stars and not players who buy into their culture. He then turns around and signs a kid with some significant smoke surrounding him and he ends up playing poorly on a down team and is seemingly a locker room issue. Guess Jay shouldve taken his own advice.
Wow. This is a pretty bad development for them. Between the losses and this, seems like they are on a runaway train right now.
Think we'll be finding out his third choice sooner or later.
The JQ saga has been something. I think it's funny that there were all these articles last season about Jay Wright blaming their bad 11-12? season on recruiting too many 5 stars and not players who buy into their culture. He then turns around and signs a kid with some significant smoke surrounding him and he ends up playing poorly on a down team and is seemingly a locker room issue. Guess Jay shouldve taken his own advice.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-basketball-podcast-jahvon-quinerlys-instagram-got-interesting-after-villanovas-latest-loss/
Summary: Picks MU to win Big East. Doesn’t think a single Big East team makes it to the Sweet Sixteen.At this point in the season, I don't think that is a bad prediction at all. He is basically going chalk at this point if you look at currently projected seeds.
Summary: Picks MU to win Big East. Doesn’t think a single Big East team makes it to the Sweet Sixteen.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-basketball-podcast-jahvon-quinerlys-instagram-got-interesting-after-villanovas-latest-loss/
I feel like Villanova will be a reverse Villanova this year. Instead of getting in as a 1/2 and losing the opening weekend, they look like the kind of team that will get in as a 7/8/9/10 and shock a 1/2 in the second round.
I feel like Villanova will be a reverse Villanova this year. Instead of getting in as a 1/2 and losing the opening weekend, they look like the kind of team that will get in as a 7/8/9/10 and shock a 1/2 in the second round. If I were a team like Nevada, I would be deathly afraid of Villanova on the opening weekend.
A "reverse Villanova" is winning 2 in the opening weekend? Haven't they won two national championships in the last three years?
But yeah, I agree that by the end of the year they could be a dangerous 7-10 seed.
It's going to be depressing when the usual suspects race to put the first Marquette loss in this thread.
It may be me who puts them here. The point of this thread isn't to say Marquette is awesome, its just to point out that all teams struggle in games that they shouldn't. As long as they are isolated incidents and not the norm, it doesn't mean that the team isn't good. It's just the nature ofcollege basketballsports.
So is it an upset if #14 Buffalo loses to unranked Syracuse tonight as a -3.5 road dog?
It may be me who puts them here. The point of this thread isn't to say Marquette is awesome, its just to point out that all teams struggle in games that they shouldn't. As long as they are isolated incidents and not the norm, it doesn't mean that the team isn't good. It's just the nature of college basketball.Correct. I started it as an attempt to provide perspective. That most teams occasionally struggle in games they should win easily. That buy games can go wrong. In their early season frustration, many were acting as if MU was the only team this happened to and it was further proof of Wojo's inadequacies. I was trying to paint a broader picture.
So is it an upset if #14 Buffalo loses to unranked Syracuse tonight as a -3.5 road dog?I say no. I go by the point spread.
I say no. I go by the point spread.
Correct. I started it as an attempt to provide perspective. That most teams occasionally struggle in games they should win easily. That buy games can go wrong. In their early season frustration, many were acting as if MU was the only team this happened to and it was further proof of Wojo's inadequacies. I was trying to paint a broader picture.
#15 Ohio State losing at halftime to KenPom #321 Youngstown State....bleh. Massive second half gives them a comfortable margin of victory.
Baylor loses at home to #172 Stephen F Austin
#192 App State was within 3 points on the road with only 2 minutes left against Georgetown
Providence only up 3 on #275 Albany at half before big second half
Butler down at half to #247 Presbyterian and the game was with 4 at the second to last media timeout
USC currently in double OT against #245 Santa Clara
Stanford escapes #327 San Jose State at home with a 5 point victory
Oregon manages a 7 point victory against #335 Florida A&M
#182 Mercer was within 5 with less than a minute left at Florida
Mark Zeigler
@sdutzeigler
7h7 hours ago
This has got to be rock bottom for Pac-12 basketball, right? On the same night that Stanford trails by 9 at home vs San Jose State, USC loses 102-92 in overtime at Santa Clara.
That doesn't even include Oregons woeful performance against Florida A&M. That conference is embarrassingly bad
Yep, and in football it might be worse. Terrible year for PAC 12.
I feel like Villanova will be a reverse Villanova this year. Instead of getting in as a 1/2 and losing the opening weekend, they look like the kind of team that will get in as a 7/8/9/10 and shock a 1/2 in the second round. If I were a team like Nevada, I would be deathly afraid of Villanova on the opening weekend.Sound observation
Not ranked but boy is K-State struuugling They were looking down with D.Wade and now without him...yikes. Hopefully the come back here
That doesn't even include Oregons woeful performance against Florida A&M. That conference is embarrassingly badPac-12’s struggles could haunt come March
Pac-12’s struggles could haunt come March
https://www.gamingtoday.com/article/79873-Pac_12_s_struggles_could_haunt_come_March#.XBq1Tgc1dG0.twitter
Earth to TAMU and MU82 - You forgot to add MU getting blown out by St. John's to this list. Nonetheless, it is nice to have this thread so we can feel better about things when it happens to us. I know I do!
Earth to TAMU and MU82 - You forgot to add MU getting blown out by St. John's to this list. Nonetheless, it is nice to have this thread so we can feel better about things when it happens to us. I know I do!
New Mexico 85
Nevada 58
Ouch!
New Mexico 85
Nevada 58
Ouch!
A ton of ranked teams lost tonight
not all upsets, but lots of losers
Let's win our next two and move up big-time in the rankings next Monday.
This.
One ranked team that didn't lose is Buffalo. Trounced Toledo in what was supposed to be a competitive game.
Coupla bad losses today:
#14 Miss St goes down to a lowly South Carolina team.
#20 Iowa State loses at Baylor.
And in the "upset" from spread:
NC State gave up a 12-0 run to UNC to start rhe game and loses as 1.5 pt fav.
Baylor is 53 in KenPom. If an upset, it would be a mild one.
Houston was called for a charge on the final seconds of play. It wiped out the basket that would have tied the game. Lost at Temple.
Auburn lost at Ole Miss.
NEB 66 at IND 51
I was at the IU game. Nebraska was far more aggressive. IU stood around a lot on offense. IU was super confused about how to play against a 1-3-1.
I was at the IU game. Nebraska was far more aggressive. IU stood around a lot on offense. IU was super confused about how to play against a 1-3-1.
#1 Duke goes down at home to 11-5 Syracuse
[/quote
Should note Reddish was out and Tre went down early. Tre is the man (Twin Cities, buddy) so it hurts.
But, rough loss regardless.
Duke with a loss.. now uw-madison extension is getting pummeled by Maryland.. kinda fun night of bball @ina
Sounds like they have not yet exercised the Crean demons.
#1 Duke goes down at home to 11-5 Syracuse
That’s annoying because that’s all Syracuse needs to back their wain into the tournament as a 10 seed yet again.Yep. Makes me want to puke.
They could lose the rest of their games and the selection committee will still take them.
Yep. Makes me want to puke.
#11 FSU lost by 13 at Pitt
And we will inevitably end up playing them in the tournament again
Syracuse sucks...not far behind ND sucks.
(http://playlikeyourcouchisonfire.com/img/syracusesucksgoldshirt.gif)
The fan base I miss least after the shakeup. The arrogance and general attitude of their fan base was horrible. And Boeheim is an assclown
The fan base I miss least after the shakeup. The arrogance and general attitude of their fan base was horrible. And Boeheim is an assclown
Boeheim was so excited by the win, he pissed himself.
(https://chumley.barstoolsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/14/8cab19f8ed7594e1.png)
Also, Syracuse beat Duke, Buffalo beat Syracuse, MU beat Buffalo ... so MU the new #1?
I hate boeheim but the dude has/had prostate cancer. Cant always control the flow, ya know.
Depends
Tennessee got so lucky Vanderbilt p*ssed themselves in the last minute and a half of regulation and then couldn't hit a clutch free throw to save their life
Tennessee got so lucky Vanderbilt p*ssed themselves in the last minute and a half of regulation and then couldn't hit a clutch free throw to save their life
Not an upset (at least not yet), but I've watched the better parts of Nevada conference games and I just don't see it. Best wins are Utah St and ASU.
Struggles with Air Force and currently sloppy against Colorado State, both games at home.
They remind me alot of New Mexico from 2011 or 10. Whenever we lost to Washington in the tournament. Everybody new that they were so over ranked with a 3 seed and that they would get upset in the second round. Well that happened by Washington. They might be protected with a 3-4 seed come tournament time but eventually you play a team that belongs and there season will end the first weekend.
I remember being so disappointed with the loss because of that exact thing. We would have had a clear path to the S16 playing the winner of New Mexico/Montana. Pac12 teams knocked us out with buzzer beaters 2 out of 3 years... Theo would have blocked both of them!
I remember wanting us to have a second crack at WVU so bad after that Ebanks buzzer beater and it was pretty clear that if we get over Washington we get that. Of every tournament loss I've been a fan of us for that might be the most painful one... mostly because Missouri was our own fault.
Think it was Desean Butler, but same exact thought.
BTW, the winning 3-pointer was made by Braxton Beverly, the kid who enrolled early at Ohio State to start schoolwork but then decided to transfer to NC State after OSU canned Thad Matta. The NCAA initially said Beverly would have to sit out a year but after much protest common sense prevailed and he was allowed to play immediately at NC State.
He also committed to Miami(OH) then ditched them during the summer before he enrolled cause he had a good senior year so then went to prep school before settling on OSU. Clearly a good player but was al over the place and rubbed some people the wrong way
I don’t disagree at all. Just acknowledging all the variables in his situation