2014 MLB Thread & Pissing Match

[akmarq]

+1

It never made sense to me why taking PEDs was enhancing one's performance, but moving a tendon from one part of the body to another was not.

Well, really, I do understand. It's all about the children. The precious children. We don't want to set bad examples for the poor little tykes.

I think all the self-righteous indignation about PEDs is dumb as well, but you're drawing a pretty big false equivalency there. TJ surgery is performed by licensed doctors in a medical setting and has years of research backing up its efficacy and safety. It may have been more similar to PEDs when it was first developed, but now it has more in common with other repair surgeries than it does with PEDs.

There's a good argument to be made for relaxing some of the rules around PEDs (allowing those that are proven safe to be used) but MLB and MBLPA both have a strong interest in not authorizing players to use medically unproven drugs administered by people who aren't real doctors.

[Benny B]

+1

It never made sense to me why taking PEDs was enhancing one's performance, but moving a tendon from one part of the body to another was not.

Well, really, I do understand. It's all about the children. The precious children. We don't want to set bad examples for the poor little tykes.

I suppose I'd rather my kid emulate a professional athlete and get caught up in a high school PED bust than have my kid emulate a school teacher and get caught up in a high school pot/coke bust.  But I'm definitely picking up what you're throwing down.

[RushmoreAcademy]

I don't think everyone hates that they would use drugs to better their performance, but everyone hates that they are knowingly cheating.  A dumb rule is still a rule.  If the union wants to fight for it then let them fight for it. 
People hate Braun a lot more because he is an awful, awful person and not because he used PED's.

[NavinRJohnson]

I don't think everyone hates that they would use drugs to better their performance, but everyone hates that they are knowingly cheating.  

Hear what you're saying, but still don't care. Those demonstrating the righteous indignation about PED use because its cheating, are more than likely the same who celebrate the likes of Joe Neikro, Gaylord Perry, Don Sutton, etc. (a couple of whom are in the hall of fame) who doctored balls, etc., as simply charming baseball lore. If its about knowingly cheating, those guys should be considered and treated no differently, so in that regard, I'm not sure I buy your argument.

[brandx]

I think all the self-righteous indignation about PEDs is dumb as well, but you're drawing a pretty big false equivalency there. TJ surgery is performed by licensed doctors in a medical setting and has years of research backing up its efficacy and safety. It may have been more similar to PEDs when it was first developed, but now it has more in common with other repair surgeries than it does with PEDs.

There's a good argument to be made for relaxing some of the rules around PEDs (allowing those that are proven safe to be used) but MLB and MBLPA both have a strong interest in not authorizing players to use medically unproven drugs administered by people who aren't real doctors.

I don't dispute your point at all. As we saw from the NFL lawsuit this week, doctors and trainers gave prescription shots and pills to players so they wouldn't miss time. And if you remember back in the 60's and 70's, it was a common practice everywhere, not just in Chicago. But your point about untested drug and the regulation of PEDs is spot on.

[BrewCity83]

If everyone hates Braun so much, how is he in third place in All-Star voting among NL outfielders?

[wadesworld]

If everyone hates Braun so much, how is he in third place in All-Star voting among NL outfielders?

Which is effing stupid considering his own teammate who is actually on the field every night, and is only injured when suspended, and who is having a much better season in a much tougher position to play (right next to him in center field) is in 6th place in the voting.  Clueless people.  Gomez may win the NL MVP.

[🏀]

If everyone hates Braun so much, how is he in third place in All-Star voting among NL outfielders?

Is this really a question?

[BrewCity83]

Is this really a question?

Technically, it is a question because it is a sentence that ends in a question mark.

What it tells me is that most baseball fans don't think that failing a drug test and doing what Braun did to try to avoid punishment is that big a deal.  They don't care about it, they care about how you play on the field.

[🏀]

Technically, it is a question because it is a sentence that ends in a question mark.

What it tells me is that most baseball fans don't think that failing a drug test and doing what Braun did to try to avoid punishment is that big a deal.  They don't care about it, they care about how you play on the field.

It's ballot stuffing, it means nothing.

[BrewCity83]

Fans of all 30 teams ballot stuff.  You think just Brewers fans, in their small market, stuff the All-Star ballots?

[🏀]

Fans of all 30 teams ballot stuff.  You think just Brewers fans, in their small market, stuff the All-Star ballots?

I don't limit it to Brewers fans though, all dumb baseball fans.

However, the small market-teams are especially notorious at mass marketing the All-Star balloting.

Haven't seen a single email from Cubs.com or WhiteSox.com, but Brewers.com is routinely filling my Spam box with VOTE FOR YOUR FAVORITE BREWER IN THE 2014 ALL-STAR GAME!

The fact that Gomez is so far behind as a legit NLMVP only makes it perfect.

[WI inferiority Complexes]

Charlie Blackmon is leading all NL Outfielders in All-Star votes.

He's having a hell of a year, but how many (even casual) MLB fans can name what team he's on without looking it up?

[wadesworld]

I don't limit it to Brewers fans though, all dumb baseball fans.

However, the small market-teams are especially notorious at mass marketing the All-Star balloting.

Haven't seen a single email from Cubs.com or WhiteSox.com, but Brewers.com is routinely filling my Spam box with VOTE FOR YOUR FAVORITE BREWER IN THE 2014 ALL-STAR GAME!

The fact that Gomez is so far behind as a legit NLMVP only makes it perfect.

Yup.  Brewers fans always stuff the ballots.  Players like Rickie Weeks end up in the top 3 of vote getters at 2B while hitting about .180 with 2x the strikeouts as hits.  The Brewers send out people with ballots to fill out during games and send out emails, etc.  They market the heck out of the All Star Game voting.

[buckchuckler]

W-L is certainly up there for the worst stat in all of sports.

It didn't used to be.  It has become much more irrelevant.  When pitchers would pitch more innings it was a better show of what they could do.  Now when guys very rarely pitch into the 8th, there is a lot that can happen in the game after the starter is removed. 

Samardzija is averaging a bit under 7 ip per start.  That leaves alot of time for a terrible bullpen to be a big factor.

It doesn't matter though.  Someone is going to hugely over pay for him.  Keep in mind, while not old, he isn't young at 29, and even with how dominant he has been this season, his career ERA is just a tick below 4.  He has been unreal this season, but there could be some serious regression to the mean coming on.  The Cubs should trade him soon because for whatever reason, his career ERA in June is about 6. 

[Benny B]

Yup.  Brewers fans always stuff the ballots.  Players like Rickie Weeks end up in the top 3 of vote getters at 2B while hitting about .180 with 2x the strikeouts as hits.  The Brewers send out people with ballots to fill out during games and send out emails, etc.  They market the heck out of the All Star Game voting.

You're from Chicago and you're complaining about a baseball team's fans stuffing an All-Star ballot box (which is completely within the rules)?

[wadesworld]

You're from Chicago and you're complaining about a baseball team's fans stuffing an All-Star ballot box (which is completely within the rules)?

Nope, I'm from Milwaukee and am a Brewers fan.  Not even complaining.  Just saying that Brewers fans have always stuffed the All Star ballots.

I am a Braun "hater" and will only hope he does well because it helps the Brewers get wins.  I find it incredibly embarrassing that Brewers fans would give him a standing ovation in his first at bat on Opening Day and not give stars like Lucroy, Gomez, and Segura, guys who by all accounts have reached this level doing it cleanly through hard work, standing ovations.  Why give Braun a standing ovation?  Because he got caught cheating and threw somebody else under the bus for opening up a loophole?  I bought his BS and I will never again be a fan of his.  So it is pretty disappointing that he's 3rd in the NL outfield votes while Carlos Gomez, who is much more deserving, is in 6th.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

How about Alexi Ramirez leading the SS for the AL all star vote. Would be a fantastic year to trade him at the deadline if you're the White Sox.

[Benny B]

Nope, I'm from Milwaukee and am a Brewers fan.  Not even complaining.  Just saying that Brewers fans have always stuffed the All Star ballots.

I am a Braun "hater" and will only hope he does well because it helps the Brewers get wins.  I find it incredibly embarrassing that Brewers fans would give him a standing ovation in his first at bat on Opening Day and not give stars like Lucroy, Gomez, and Segura, guys who by all accounts have reached this level doing it cleanly through hard work, standing ovations.  Why give Braun a standing ovation?  Because he got caught cheating and threw somebody else under the bus for opening up a loophole?  I bought his BS and I will never again be a fan of his.  So it is pretty disappointing that he's 3rd in the NL outfield votes while Carlos Gomez, who is much more deserving, is in 6th.

I was not at Opening Day, but I've heard from someone who was there that the standing ovation wasn't quite as pervasive as the media and pundits have made it out to be.

These Brewer fans stuffing the box, they're not just voting for Braun and turning the ballot in, they're voting for all of the Brewers and turning the ballot in; perhaps some will not vote for guys like Weeks and Overbay who really don't deserve to be in the ASG, much less on the ballot, but take Jean Segura for instance who has the lowest tally of the Brewers in the top 5: I cannot fathom a situation where a Brewer fan voters punches a hole for anyone but Segura at SS... and yet, he's only tallied 202,000 votes so far.  Moreover, when it comes to SS voting, a statistically non-existent number of non-Brewer fan voters are going to vote for Segura over Tulo (or any of the other candidates), so substantially all of Segura's votes are coming from Brewer fans.  Therefore, it follows that Brewer fans - including the stuffers - have only turned in about 200,000 ballots thus far. 

So if Braun has received 446,000 votes, over half of his tally is coming from voters who aren't Brewers fans.

I feel the same way you do about Braun, but you can't attribute his tally in the voting strictly to other Brewer fans stuffing the box.  Take away the Brewer fans' votes, and he's still in 10th place.  That's what's truly perplexing here.

[brandx]

These Brewer fans stuffing the box, they're not just voting for Braun and turning the ballot in, they're voting for all of the Brewers and turning the ballot in; perhaps some will not vote for guys like Weeks and Overbay who really don't deserve to be in the ASG, much less on the ballot, but take Jean Segura for instance who has the lowest tally of the Brewers in the top 5: I cannot fathom a situation where a Brewer fan voters punches a hole for anyone but Segura at SS... and yet, he's only tallied 202,000 votes so far.  Moreover, when it comes to SS voting, a statistically non-existent number of non-Brewer fan voters are going to vote for Segura over Tulo (or any of the other candidates), so substantially all of Segura's votes are coming from Brewer fans.  Therefore, it follows that Brewer fans - including the stuffers - have only turned in about 200,000 ballots thus far. 

So if Braun has received 446,000 votes, over half of his tally is coming from voters who aren't Brewers fans.

I feel the same way you do about Braun, but you can't attribute his tally in the voting strictly to other Brewer fans stuffing the box.  Take away the Brewer fans' votes, and he's still in 10th place.  That's what's truly perplexing here.

You assume that every Brewer fan is an idiot who only votes for Brewers. You'd be surprised how many real Brewers fans there are who recognize that Tulo exists in a completely different universe than Segure, baseball wise.

I would expect most Brewer fans to vote for Braun because of his track record. I would also expect a good percentage of those Brewer voters also vote for Tulo, Posey, Molina, etc. I also expect Brewer fans are smart enough to see what Gomez has done and vote for him. But where Braun will get votes outside of Milwaukee, Gomez will not get near as many.

But, I see no logic in how you did the numbers in your post. You made up a theory and then a paragraph later, your theory became a fact used as a basis for your argument.

[Spotcheck Billy]

You assume that every Brewer fan is an idiot who only votes for Brewers. You'd be surprised how many real Brewers fans there are who recognize that Tulo exists in a completely different universe than Segure, baseball wise.

I would expect most Brewer fans to vote for Braun because of his track record. I would also expect a good percentage of those Brewer voters also vote for Tulo, Posey, Molina, etc. I also expect Brewer fans are smart enough to see what Gomez has done and vote for him. But where Braun will get votes outside of Milwaukee, Gomez will not get near as many.

But, I see no logic in how you did the numbers in your post. You made up a theory and then a paragraph later, your theory became a fact used as a basis for your argument.

Molina? Take that back!

as Benny posted, when we vote we vote Brew Crew only!

[Benny B]

You assume that every Brewer fan is an idiot who only votes for Brewers. You'd be surprised how many real Brewers fans there are who recognize that Tulo exists in a completely different universe than Segure, baseball wise.

I would expect most Brewer fans to vote for Braun because of his track record. I would also expect a good percentage of those Brewer voters also vote for Tulo, Posey, Molina, etc. I also expect Brewer fans are smart enough to see what Gomez has done and vote for him. But where Braun will get votes outside of Milwaukee, Gomez will not get near as many.

But, I see no logic in how you did the numbers in your post. You made up a theory and then a paragraph later, your theory became a fact used as a basis for your argument.

Tell me which you think is more plausible... A) that Brewers fans have "stuffed" 446,000 ballots for Braun, yet about half of those ballots contain votes for someone other than Lucroy, Aramis, Segura and Gomez at their respective positions or B) that more than 200,000 of Braun's 446,000 votes are coming from non-Brewer fans.

[brandx]

Molina? Take that back!

as Benny posted, when we vote we vote Brew Crew only!

We know how good Lucroy is - I don't think fans nationally realize he belongs on the same level as Molina or Posey.

[NotBuzzWilliams]

I wrote in Hank the Dog at first base

[buckchuckler]

Is there really 2 pages on All Star voting?  That is crazy.