CollegeBasketballTalk.com way too early top 25

[kryza]

Lunardi has his early 2016 bracket out already. 5 BEast teams with no sniff for MU. Of note:
Villanova 1 seed
Wiscy 4 seed
Ia. State (McKay, Burton) 2 seed
Indiana 2 seed
Dayton (who everybody here bashed as not belonging in BEast) 6 seed.
If this holds out, that would be 3 straight years with no dance ticket for us. Not a good sign.

Another article on ESPN today by Myron Medcalf has some nice words about MU.

Wojo orchestrates nation's best turnaround: Steve Wojciechowski had a rough debut after leaving his post as an assistant at Duke to coach Marquette. But Wojciechowski relied on some young pieces during his 13-19 (4-14 Big East) opening season. But Henry Ellenson anchors the ninth-ranked recruiting class in America per RecruitingNation. As a result, Wojo's fortunes will turn in 2015-16 with a strong year that ends with an NCAA tournament appearance and the nation's top season-to-season turnaround.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/106805/bold-predictions-for-2015-16

[CTWarrior]

If this holds out, that would be 3 straight years with no dance ticket for us. Not a good sign.

I think Lunardi's analysis makes more sense than that Myron article. 

But I don't think missing the NCAAs next year will constitute a "bad sign."  We knew the hill we had to climb by about Jan 1 of this season.  Seems like this year we hit rock-bottom and the only bad sign next season would be if there is not significant improvement.  And frankly, we were so bad this year that we could improve quite a bit and still not make the NCAAs.

[willie warrior]

Would Dayton be as good with temple xavier and butler still in the A10? I doubt it. Id still stand that they don't belong in the BE

Well then, they have been doing better than MU the last two years and are projected to do so next year.

[brewcity77]

Would Dayton be as good with temple xavier and butler still in the A10? I doubt it. Id still stand that they don't belong in the BE

Whether Dayton should be added or not is debatable. However if the Big East were to add any one current program in the country, I would argue Dayton is the ONLY one that makes any sense. When it comes to dedication to basketball, institutional support, devoted fanbase, quality coaching, and matching the mission of the current Big East schools, they are the best fit out there. There is no one else in our geographic footprint that comes close.

I wouldn't add just for the sake of it, but if the league were to expand, the powers that be would have to be brain-dead not to make Dayton one of the first targets for expansion.

[bradley center bat]

WVU, Maryland, Butler, Utah were some schools that had losing record the year before or missed the tourney and had a nice seed the following season.

[Benny B]

Whether Dayton should be added or not is debatable. However if the Big East were to add any one current program in the country, I would argue Dayton is the ONLY one that makes any sense. When it comes to dedication to basketball, institutional support, devoted fanbase, quality coaching, and matching the mission of the current Big East schools, they are the best fit out there. There is no one else in our geographic footprint that comes close.

I wouldn't add just for the sake of it, but if the league were to expand, the powers that be would have to be brain-dead not to make Dayton one of the first targets for expansion.

As a former Cavalier owner who loves to bash Dayton (strictly for the fun of doing so), I agree with this 100%.

[PGsHeroes32]

WVU, Maryland, Butler, Utah were some schools that had losing record the year before or missed the tourney and had a nice seed the following season.

Butler was the only one of that group that was pretty bad though.

Wvu was more of a surprise last year and built of it.

Maryland was competitive and Trimble/more experience put them over the top.

Utah was close last year but needed road consistency.

[wadesworld]

Respect the process.

[Galway Eagle]

Well then, they have been doing better than MU the last two years and are projected to do so next year.

In a considerably easier league in better circumstances.  What about the 50 prior to the past 2 years?

Overall they have
24 NITs
16 NCAAs, 7 S16, 3 E8, 1 RU

It's a pathetic resume compared to any of the current teams except Creighton and seton hall. And with their two big rebounding seasons coming after the two teams that ran the A10 for ages bolted forgive me for not finding it as impressive as most.  

[JWags85]

In a considerably easier league in better circumstances.  What about the 50 prior to the past 2 years?

Overall they have
24 NITs
16 NCAAs, 7 S16, 3 E8, 1 RU

It's a pathetic resume compared to any of the current teams except Creighton and seton hall. And with their two big rebounding seasons coming after the two teams that ran the A10 for ages bolted forgive me for not finding it as impressive as most.  

Not to mention only 1 of the S16s and E8s came in the last 30 years.  They've had a nice 2 year run, but so did Kent State, St Joes, and George Mason.

Archie Miller Dayton is one thing.  But when he inevitably leaves, would we be happy with Oliver Purnell or Brian Gregory level Dayton?

[tower912]

Larry Williams and Fr. Pilarz would have been. 

[Dawson Rental]

Lunardi has his early 2016 bracket out already. 5 BEast teams with no sniff for MU. Of note:
Villanova 1 seed
Wiscy 4 seed
Ia. State (McKay, Burton) 2 seed
Indiana 2 seed
Dayton (who everybody here bashed as not belonging in BEast) 6 seed.
If this holds out, that would be 3 straight years with no dance ticket for us. Not a good sign.

Yes, for those who can't tell the difference between missing the dance due to too young talent, as opposed to missing the dance due to not enough talent, period.

[Dawson Rental]

Would Dayton be as good with temple xavier and butler still in the A10? I doubt it. Id still stand that they don't belong in the BE

Well, they did beat Providence in the first round of the NCAA.

[brewcity77]

Archie Miller Dayton is one thing.  But when he inevitably leaves, would we be happy with Oliver Purnell or Brian Gregory level Dayton?

Yes, I believe we would be. At least in comparison to other programs out there.

Purnell inherited an awful situation. Dayton hadn't had a winning season in 5 years. It took him 4 years to really turn it around (though each of his first 3 seasons were better than any of the last two under O'Brien before him). Once he did, 20+ wins in 5/6 seasons, 2 NCAA Appearances, 3 NIT Appearances.

Gregory was there 8 years, had 7 winning seasons, 2 NCAA Appearances, 3 NIT Appearances, and one of those was a NIT Championship.

Was Dayton great under them? No. But they were a consistently good team, a consistently top-100 team. They draw fans, they are dedicated to their program, and over the past 20 years, they are pretty regularly at least a good team.

No, they aren't a powerhouse like the Syracuse, Louisville, or UConn programs we once had, but they are the best Catholic basketball-only school available, and they have some pretty solid non-basketball programs as well. In the past 60 years, they've been a postseason team more often than not and only made one really bad hire (O'Brien, fired after 5 years).

I don't think there's a better fit in the country, if we elect to expand. I wouldn't expand for the sole purpose of adding Dayton, but if we have a compelling reason to expand, they would have to be at the top of the list of calls we make.

[Dawson Rental]

Whether Dayton should be added or not is debatable. However if the Big East were to add any one current program in the country, I would argue Dayton is the ONLY one that makes any sense. When it comes to dedication to basketball, institutional support, devoted fanbase, quality coaching, and matching the mission of the current Big East schools, they are the best fit out there. There is no one else in our geographic footprint that comes close.

I wouldn't add just for the sake of it, but if the league were to expand, the powers that be would have to be brain-dead not to make Dayton one of the first targets for expansion.

Think how much stronger the Big East would have been with Dayton instead of DePaul its first two years, and DePaul doesn't seem to be anywhere near an upswing.  If no DePaul had been a choice, I wonder how it would have gone.

[Galway Eagle]

Yes, I believe we would be. At least in comparison to other programs out there.

Purnell inherited an awful situation. Dayton hadn't had a winning season in 5 years. It took him 4 years to really turn it around (though each of his first 3 seasons were better than any of the last two under O'Brien before him). Once he did, 20+ wins in 5/6 seasons, 2 NCAA Appearances, 3 NIT Appearances.

Gregory was there 8 years, had 7 winning seasons, 2 NCAA Appearances, 3 NIT Appearances, and one of those was a NIT Championship.

Was Dayton great under them? No. But they were a consistently good team, a consistently top-100 team. They draw fans, they are dedicated to their program, and over the past 20 years, they are pretty regularly at least a good team.

No, they aren't a powerhouse like the Syracuse, Louisville, or UConn programs we once had, but they are the best Catholic basketball-only school available, and they have some pretty solid non-basketball programs as well. In the past 60 years, they've been a postseason team more often than not and only made one really bad hire (O'Brien, fired after 5 years).

I don't think there's a better fit in the country, if we elect to expand. I wouldn't expand for the sole purpose of adding Dayton, but if we have a compelling reason to expand, they would have to be at the top of the list of calls we make.

Barely they're just over 50% in the past 60 years (33 the vast majority being NIT).  Comparatively, in the past 60 years we've been in the NIT and NCAA just over 75% of the time (46 the vast majority being NCAA).  

You're right about the no better fit.  But I just don't like to think of them as belonging which is why I addressed Willie's original statement where he insinuated that they'd totally belong.