Pro's and con's of oversigning

[tower912]

MU84 brought up oversigning in the thread about our new recruit.   Instead of muddying that thread with a philosophical discussion of oversigning of recruits, lets do it in this thread.   3-4 years ago, I would have said that oversigning recruits is sleazy as hell.   This was brought home with the Damian Saunders commit.     After paying more attention to other schools' recruiting and watching what happened over the last 13 months with the sudden departure of Mbakwe and the career-that-never-was ending illness to McMorrow, as well as the history of transfers under Crean, I can say I have changed my mind.    Things happen.   Kids aren't happy with their location, their amount of PT, their girlfriend's state of mind, cold weather, coaching personalities.     Transfers happen.   And what if our recruits completely explodes and is a 1 (or 2) and done?     Their has to be talent in the pipeline.       
    As much as I loved the amigos, I hope we are never in a position where 4 of our guys have to play 35 minutes a night for us to compete.   Buzz wants nothing but high-major players on his roster.   Having lots of talented guys competing for their share of the 200 available minutes can only make the team better, but will inevitably lead to transfers.  This is the reality at high-major programs.   
    Perhaps in a perfect world, we would recruit 1 guard, 1 wing, and 1 big in every class, they would all be 4 stars, and they would all stay 4 years.   Perhaps we need to make the best of the world we actually inhabit.   

[chapman]

It can get sleazy.  Sure there was a coaching change, but Calapari magically getting room for all of his players isn't exactly clean.  And we all know by now with how much information is on the table with the clearinghouse issues that the university did not suddenly discover an "academic issue" with Damian Saunders days before he was to enroll for the fall semester when there were four players coming in and only three spots available.  On the other hand, Buzz oversigned by this past offseason (by one at two different points if I have the timing right), and we are still one player short.  I guess a little of it is luck and a little of it is having a good insider view of the situation.  However, if an issue occurs in the future with more players coming in than there is available, I hope it's not done to find multiple slots for new players ala Calapari, and I hope it's resolved by the early summer at the latest, before any painfully poor excuses need to be made.

[GOMU1104]

A coach's gotta do what he needs to. I have no problem with Buzz, TC, or even Calapari over recruiting. He has the best sense of any, on how the roster is going to shake out.  If the coach gets a sense that they will have an open spot, one that the fans/public may not know about...the coach has to deal with it accordingly. Coaches have reasons for everything they do, just trust that it will all work out in the end.

As for Damian Sanuders...He was (and still is) a far more talented player than Pat Hazel. If it was about talent, Hazel would have been the one "run off."  Saunders had academic issues from the start, and I dont think it was a surprise to the staff when he couldn't get in to MU. As I remember, he cleared the NCAA Clearinghouse, but other things were beyond fixing, and there was no way he was getting in MU.  If things could have been finagled in a certain way, and he could've gotten admitted to MU, he would've...it just wasn't going to happen.

[GOO]

GOMU,  I agree.  That was always the thing that struck me.  Hazel was the lessor of the players, so why not take the better player.   I think Damian's academic situation didn't help and his legal problem during the summer didn't help him any.  If it was a pure choice of basketball talent, Damien would be an MU player, in my opinion.  He had some crazy high school stats and was clearly a player and a little taller than Hazel.  Or, maybe Fr. Wild couldn't get past the name Damian? 

[bilsu]

Assuming the University is going to admit a player you cannot run him off the first year. So if we oversign and they all are admitted than a current player has to leave. There are 10 possiblities for someone to leave or have a carreer ending injury. Also Buzz seems to have zero tolerance, if you screw up off the basketball court. With so many southern players, somebody is problably going to find out that they do not like snow that much.

[TomW1365]

2010 Players Considering - Marquette
NAME POS HT WT SCHOOL RANK GRADE STATUS NOTES
Doron Lamb Shooting Guard 6-4 183 Oak Hill Academy (VA) SG #9 95 Undeclared   
Carson Desrosiers Center 6-10 210 Central Catholic H.S. (MA) C #6 93 Undeclared   
Jayvaughn Pinkston Power Forward 6-5 220 Bishop Loughlin Memorial H.S. (NY) PF #30 91 Undeclared   
Flavien Davis Small Forward 6-6 190 Lutheran H.S. (WI) SF #24 90 Undeclared   
Moses Morgan Shooting Guard 6-5 208 Palo Verde H.S. (NV) SG #43 90 Undeclared   
Trae Golden Shooting Guard 6-1 185 McEachern H.S. (GA) SG #51 89 Undeclared   
Deonta Burton Shooting Guard 6-1 180 Centennial Senior H.S. (CA) SG #60 88 Undeclared   
Jesse Morgan Shooting Guard 6-5 175 Olney H.S. (PA) SG #60 88 Undeclared   
Shane Southwell Small Forward 6-6 180 Rice H.S. (NY) SF #69 84 Undeclared   
Lavonte Dority Shooting Guard 6-3 180 Foreman H.S. (IL) SG #130 82 Undeclared   
J.J. Moore Small Forward 6-5 200 Brentwood H.S. (NY) SF #90 81 Undeclared   
Mike Poole Small Forward 6-6 180 St. Benedict's Prep (NJ) SF #90 81 Undeclared   
Seantrel Henderson Power Forward 6-7 295 Cretin-Derham Hall H.S. (MN)   40 Undeclared   
Chim Kadima Shooting Guard 6-4 190 Lutheran H.S. (WI)   40 Undeclared   

I'm sure this has changed since August 15, 2009 especially after the new commitment. 

[TomW1365]

Assuming the University is going to admit a player you cannot run him off the first year. So if we oversign and they all are admitted than a current player has to leave. There are 10 possiblities for someone to leave or have a carreer ending injury. Also Buzz seems to have zero tolerance, if you screw up off the basketball court. With so many southern players, somebody is problably going to find out that they do not like snow that much.

I have to agree with you here... I don't think we should ever run some one off (like we probably did with Acker), but I'm sure there are some mid-level talent that we stay in touch with in case someone chooses to leave on their own accord.

[MuMark]

Why would we run Acker off only to have  a roster that is 1 player short? 

Anyone who thinks we ran Acker needs to get a clue. He messed up and now he is gone.

End of story.

[bilsu]

Assuming the Kahlil McDonald signing is true, we are now one over and done.

[Buzz4Prez]

I will be honest here, and I get the feeling many here won't agree with me, but this is how I look at it...

If a player isn't hacking it, I have no problem with a coach "cutting" him or taking away his scholarship. When they sign there LOI it is with the agreement that they will perform, the school is paying them (free school and other perks) to play basketball for them, just like many of us get paid to go to work. If you were at your job and you weren't performing would you get to keep your job and your perks?

I am sorry, but Buzz has a job on the line and if players aren't cutting it he needs to find new ones that will, he has a lot of pressure from his bosses and all of the fans to put a team on the floor that performs, when players are recruited they have to know that they need to perform

[reinko]

Took the words out of my mouth Buzz4Prez. 

Well said.

[kmwtrucks]

Along that same lines as what was just said. I'm sure Buzz takes care of the player's at some level.  I'm sure he contacted teams in lower divsions out east that may want a transfer with Hazel's ability.  To help people get to a program that better fits their skill level just make's sense for both the player and the program.  I'm sure if some cases player's are giving the option to go onto non athletic schloraships and graduate but not play basketball.  Its not like he is throwing kids in the alley.